# The Walking Dead - A - s04e16 - Finale



## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

Yup, they eat people


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## Boot (Mar 15, 2000)

I didn't see the episode title until the end. I had to rewind to figure out that every door they were led through, and the train car, had an "A" on it. Makes me wonder if there are other paths that lead to other train cars.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Watch was Herschel's right?


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## Boot (Mar 15, 2000)

Herschel gave it to Glenn, didn't he?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I was a little surprised that they so perfectly set up, and then didn't use, the final line "Who we are."

I was also a little surprised that the final fate of Darryl's new pals was so abrupt.

Note to self: Never try to rape Rick's son, or let one of my buddies do it.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Boot said:


> Herschel gave it to Glenn, didn't he?


Right. He even mentioned it in the flashback


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Test said:


> Yup, they eat people


:up::up::up:

Greg


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I jumped out of my seat when Rick (literally) chewed out the leader.


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## DUSlider (Apr 29, 2005)

I didn't want it to be cannibals, but nothing else really made any logical sense... oh well.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

DUSlider said:


> I didn't want it to be cannibals, but nothing else really made any logical sense... oh well.


How do we know they're cannibals? Not that I don't believe it, but I didn't see any real evidence of it. Other than lots of meat on the grill.


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## DUSlider (Apr 29, 2005)

So we know Carole, Tyresse and the baby aren't in there. Though the box of powdered milk next to the steps into the train car might have suggested that they were... Carole saves the day?


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## DUSlider (Apr 29, 2005)

Peter000 said:


> How do we know they're cannibals? Not that I don't believe it, but I didn't see any real evidence of it. Other than lots of meat on the grill.


As they are running around, they passed a fenced in area that to me looked like a lot of human rib cages and skulls....


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

DUSlider said:


> As they are running around, they passed a fenced in area that to me looked like a lot of human rib cages and skulls....


....and spines.


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## DUSlider (Apr 29, 2005)

Jstkiddn said:


> ....and spines.


yup, they looked way too fresh to be from walkers. Also there were other people crying for help in other containers as they ran by that area. So it wasn't just Rick's group that got rounded and locked up.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

And the guy who said "when people become a part of us we get stronger" as he gets a plate of human kebabs.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

They also herded our crew in to the ambush kind of like we herd cattle to slaughter. I don't think it was their first time doing that...the path marked A for grade A BEEF!


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

The aerial shots of michonne and her sword were comedic. The girl needs a gun for situations like this.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Great episode and man the hiatus is going to be tough!


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

There was definitely a lot of action here. The entire sequence with the Claimed gang was very good. The sounds of Rick going after that guy, over and over, while Michonne comforts Carl, were really gruesome.

However, I was a bit disappointed in the ending... because I wanted MORE!! They can't possibly just leave us hanging for 6.5 MONTHS. Ugh.

I was a bit surprised that they kept running through the Terminus "campus" like that. It was completely clear they were being herded and you'd think Rick or Darryl would be savvy enough to see it as well. If it were me I'd have holed up in one of the more defensible rooms, at least until I had time to think about things a bit. The one with all the candles would be my preference, since it seems like someplace they would think twice about storming (apparently means something to them). On the other hand, it worked out for them, at least to some extent, since they met up with the other group. That was a bad mistake for the Terminus folks; since Rick recognized the watch and riot gear and poncho they should have known that they knew the other group and routed them to a different train car. Maybe all the others are full.

I'm really, really curious as to how Glenn et.al. got into the train car. Clearly the idea behind being "fixed a plate" is that once you eat you're "marked" as a cannibal and you might as well join up (a la _Lucifer's Hammer_). So did Glenn's group eat? Or did something happen to tip them off as well, like seeing Herschel's watch did for Rick?


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

madscientist said:


> I'm really, really curious as to how Glenn et.al. got into the train car. Clearly the idea behind being "fixed a plate" is that once you eat you're "marked" as a cannibal and you might as well join up (a la _Lucifer's Hammer_).


That is not clear at all. If I were running the place, I would drug the food given to newcomers to take them without a fight. That's my best guess how Glenn's party got taken. Alternatively, they might have kept up their act until Glenn's party was asleep, and then taken them.

I could not believe how incompetently Rick et al. scouted that place. They should have watched it for at least a full day to get an idea of the number of people and armaments. And then they should have sent only two people in, leaving the other two out of sight as a strategic reserve. This seems like completely obvious strategy. And the tactics once they were running were pretty bad. If people are shooting at you from the roof, you do not run down the middle of the passage -- you pick a wall (preferably under the shooters if they aren't on both sides) and keep tight to it.

From the claimed gang, where was Carl's gun when he was in the car? I was expecting him to shoot the guy who brought a knife to a gunfight. Except Carl just wimped out.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

DUSlider said:


> I didn't want it to be cannibals, but nothing else really made any logical sense... oh well.


But to me this doesn't make logical sense, people don't just become cannibals because of the ZA and how do cannibals band together, what if one of Rick's group wants to become a cannibal ? can they just sign up ? After this week Rick would fit right in.



betts4 said:


> Great episode and man the hiatus is going to be tough!


I thought the episode was pretty flat overall. Solid but there were much more dramatic one's earlier in this half season.



madscientist said:


> There was definitely a lot of action here. The entire sequence with the Claimed gang was very good. The sounds of Rick going after that guy, over and over, while Michonne comforts Carl, were really gruesome.
> 
> However, I was a bit disappointed in the ending... because I wanted MORE!! They can't possibly just leave us hanging for 6.5 MONTHS. Ugh.


I think that's how I feel. The end just felt a bit flat.

You'd need drugs to drug people !!!


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

JohnB1000 said:


> You'd need drugs to drug people !!!


And you'd need Captain Obvious to point out obvious things.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

That was a disappointing season finale. I thought for sure we'd see Rick and Carl be reunited with Judith, and I thought we'd find out what Terminus is all about. Now we're left to speculate for 6+ months. 

I agree that Rick and Crew were horrible at scouting. They should have watched long enough to see what happens when other groups show up asking for sanctuary. 

They should have realized all the time they were running from the roof snipers, that either the snipers were blind or they were intentionally trying not to hit them. 

If it turns out that Terminus is just another version of Woodbury with people that are a threat to our gang, that's just really poor writing.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

They did know they were shooting at their feet because one of them said that. At the moment this is different from Woodbury because they are captives but I really hope it takes a different path.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I agree that Rick and Crew were horrible at scouting. They should have watched long enough to see what happens when other groups show up asking for sanctuary.


 Well, based on the number of people they've seen on the road there's no telling how long a wait that would be. And they made a point of discussing how hungry they were at the beginning of the episode, so maybe they didn't feel like they could just hang out and wait. Growling stomachs might have given away their hiding place! 

Also, we don't really know what they would see when another group joined. Maybe the group would be taken in without a fight, and/or join up. But, I agree they could have been more cautious. Since they had only four people I don't think they could afford to split their manpower and send in an advance team to find out what happens; if they had a bigger group that would be ideal of course.

At least they didn't just walk in the front door like Glenn's team


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

madscientist said:


> At least they didn't just walk in the front door like Glenn's team


"Albert must be on perimeter patrol."

Wonder who's for desert tonight?


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

madscientist said:


> The one with all the candles would be my preference, since it seems like someplace they would think twice about storming (apparently means something to them).


It had a bunch of names/locations on the floor with random items around. I'm guessing it's a shrine to members lost or their lunch?



JohnB1000 said:


> But to me this doesn't make logical sense, people don't just become cannibals because of the ZA and how do cannibals band together, what if one of Rick's group wants to become a cannibal ? can they just sign up ? After this week Rick would fit right in.


There are people that eat other people NOW and there isn't a ZA.

Maybe only the leaders of the camp know what is on the grill.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

About the herding, don't bullets bounce? Our gang is "lucky" that they didn't get hit by riccochets from the Terminus people shooting at their feet from the rooftops.

As mentioned earlier, I was surprised that Rick and Daryl weren't bright enough to scout Terminus' perimeter for a while. Also, Carl, should have shot fat pervert dude as soon as he opened the car door. Maybe he was groggy.

I certainly won't remember when the new season starts but I'm pretty sure that Rick's buried cache of weapons will play a prominent role in their eventual escape.

What was up with Daryl telling Rick that Beth wasn't dead but "just gone" or something to that effect? Why not explain what actually happened?

Obviously, there's no candle shortage.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I can't figure out how they come out ahead given the amount a food a person needs to eat versus the amount of meat you get out of them.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> I can't figure out how they come out ahead given the amount a food a person needs to eat versus the amount of meat you get out of them.


Do you subsist solely on Candy Corn? Or do you supplement your diet with other foods?


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

While I enjoyed this episode, I could have used with an additional half or full hour. There were still loose ends they should have tied up.

We don't know where Tyrese, Carol and Judith are. We don't know where Beth is. I would like to have known at least if they have made it to Terminus yet or are still en route.

We don't know for a fact that they are cannibals, though there were enough clues I think we can assume they are.

So, no one from the main cast was killed off. I read that until last week's episode, they had killed off a main character in the second to last episode of every season. For taht reason, a lot of people were speculating that either Beth or Maggie would be killed off in the final episode. I am glad that didn't happen.

Did they show Eugene last night? I assume he was in the train car, but I didn't see him. We know his/Glenn's body armor is being used by the Terminus folks.


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## trnsfrguy (Apr 28, 2005)

markz said:


> Did they show Eugene last night? I assume he was in the train car, but I didn't see him. We know his/Glenn's body armor is being used by the Terminus folks.


Yeah, Eugene was there. He was standing in the back to the left.


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## NJ_HB (Mar 21, 2007)

Carol is coming to save them all


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

The Terminus folks would have to be awfully stupid to eventually be defeated by Rick & company next season.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> The Terminus folks would have to be awfully stupid to eventually be defeated by Rick & company next season.


Reminds me of the old "Who would win, Thor or Superman?" arguments. To which my answer was always, "Depends on who's writing it."


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

That was a very disappointing finale. The resolve with the Claim Gang was over too quickly and easily and Terminus was a huge let-down. I'm officially bummed.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

NJ_HB said:


> Carol is coming to save them all


:up: :up: :up:


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Boot said:


> I didn't see the episode title until the end. I had to rewind to figure out that every door they were led through, and the train car, had an "A" on it. Makes me wonder if there are other paths that lead to other train cars.


I just happened to have the closed captioning on. At one point one of the hipsters mentioned "heading them off a B". You really couldn't hear it with all the shooting.

Also, they passed another large box where people were screaming "Let me out'. Maybe it's Carol and the rest?


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

heySkippy said:


> That was a very disappointing finale. The resolve with the Claim Gang was over too quickly and easily and Terminus was a huge let-down. I'm officially bummed.


I agree. It's like the writers were so focused on ending the season with the heroes in peril that they didn't care how good the story was to get them there.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Cannibals? GROSS!

They also eat vegetables I think. I saw some garden beds in the background.


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

The *Terminati *(my new name for _them_) seems to waste a lot of bullets just to "herd" Rick & Co. to a certain place. Why wouldn't they just surround Rick right there and make them walk to the box car?

The only thing I can think of is to make them see the candle room. But then again, you could just force them to walk through there on the way to the train.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

dtle said:


> The Terminati (my new name for them)....


That's a good one. On Talking Dead they were calling them Termites.


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## SugarBowl (Jan 5, 2007)

dtle said:


> The *Terminati *(my new name for _them_) seems to waste a lot of bullets just to "herd" Rick & Co. to a certain place. Why wouldn't they just surround Rick right there and make them walk to the box car?
> 
> The only thing I can think of is to make them see the candle room. But then again, you could just force them to walk through there on the way to the train.





Spoiler



They're called termites in the Talking Dead.

an eating reference ?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

How did that guy in the middle of the road get totally encircled by the walkers? It's not like the walkers are as well coordinated as the Seattle Seahawks defense. Unless he was blind or had a peg leg, he should have been able to juke and jive around them and run before they closed in on him.


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## trnsfrguy (Apr 28, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> How did that guy in the middle of the road get totally encircled by the walkers? It's not like the walkers are as well coordinated as the Seattle Seahawks defense. Unless he was blind or had a peg leg, he should have been able to juke and jive around them and run before they closed in on him.


Yeah, that was cheesy.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> How did that guy in the middle of the road get totally encircled by the walkers? It's not like the walkers are as well coordinated as the Seattle Seahawks defense. Unless he was blind or had a peg leg, he should have been able to juke and jive around them and run before they closed in on him.


Probably the same way walkers can magically appear behind somebody in an open field... 

Although I suppose it's possible he was running away from them all night, and just got too tired to go any further...


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> How did that guy in the middle of the road get totally encircled by the walkers? It's not like the walkers are as well coordinated as the Seattle Seahawks defense. Unless he was blind or had a peg leg, he should have been able to juke and jive around them and run before they closed in on him.


Maybe that was Albert. 

Okay, I know he was too far away, but it was an amusing thought for a moment.

I really didn't find the episode flat. They tied up a few loose ends while keeping us hooked for the next season. That's what they are supposed to do.

I am curious as to why they seem to have different train cars for different groups. Or maybe they just put Rick's group in the train car with Glenn's group because Rick recognized the watch and armor.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

I watched the episode again because I missed the references to them being cannibals and all the A markers. I was distracted last night when I watched. Thanks for pointing them out.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Too bad Carol killed Lizzy. She would have fit right in with the new guys!


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Gunnyman said:


> I watched the episode again because I missed the references to them being cannibals and all the A markers. I was distracted last night when I watched. Thanks for pointing them out.


To be fair, them being cannibals is speculation at this point.

They also wasted a lot of prime planting space on flowers. I would think every inch of those planting beds would be reserved for vegetables, fruit, and herbs!


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Not if you're trying to lull n00bs into a false sense of sanctuary. Planted flowers would be a clever misdirection of safety and luxury.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I did actually enjoy the fight between the gang and Rick. Tearing the guys throat out was just perfect! I mean, gross yes, but what a solution. Don't mess with my son. 

Daryl's line when he is giving Rick the water the next day and Rick says save it for drinking - "you can't see yourself, he can" was great. I also loved Rick telling Daryl that they were brothers. I think that little bit is very important to Daryl.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

betts4 said:


> I also loved Rick telling Daryl that they were brothers. I think that little bit is very important to Daryl.


But maybe a bit confusing, considering who Daryl's actual brother was...

Which is to say, I suspect that remark had unintended resonances.

Speaking of whom, the zombie apocalypse has been good for Daryl...he's gained some weight!  (There were a couple of close-ups that reminded me of when Lost had to write Jorge Garcia's inability to lose weight into the story.)


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

The whole Dharma story was just manufactured to get food on the island for Hugo.


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## Jolt (Jan 9, 2006)

I wonder if "A" stands for the quality of meat and that is why they are all together...


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But maybe a bit confusing, considering who Daryl's actual brother was...
> 
> Which is to say, I suspect that remark had unintended resonances.


I didn't find it confusing at all. Rick was saying that Daryl really was family and Rick thought of him as such - if there had been any doubt before. The two talking at the car, well, for me it was a strong moment.


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## 2004raptor (Dec 31, 2005)

I thought the episode was decent. I wouldn't quite say it fell flat but I think maybe it was a bit rushed with he terminus storyline. Seems like it might have been better if it would have lasted at least another episode before there was conflict. It obviously they had to end the season. Maybe it would have been better as a 90 minute or 2 hour episode??
What was the significance of the powdered milk containers/boxes? Or is it unknown? I thought maybe they used that to feed to the train people just to keep some weight on (in case they really are cannibals).


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

DUSlider said:


> As they are running around, they passed a fenced in area that to me looked like a lot of human rib cages and skulls....


Screencaps of bones and remains


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

betts4 said:


> I didn't find it confusing at all. Rick was saying that Daryl really was family and Rick thought of him as such - if there had been any doubt before. The two talking at the car, well, for me it was a strong moment.


You're not Daryl.  My point is, for Daryl "family" = "Merle," which has to bring up strange connotations in that context.

I'm certainly not disputing how Rick meant it, or even how Daryl took it. It just had to be a strange moment for Daryl. His post-zombie-apocalypse chosen family is far better than the one he was born into.

By the way, seems to me that Daryl missed a golden opportunity to save them all a lot of hassle. Joe forgot to claim Rick.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Putting a group of "victims" in the same container doesn't really make that much sense when you think about it. If there is any chance of them escaping it's going to happen when you put a bunch of people together who know each other.

What was the candle room? Didn't quite understand that.

I think you could argue that the lack of scouting was because they needed food.

Season finale's tend to have a lot more going on than this and rather than setting me up for next year it just made me annoyed they didn't even mention Beth or Carol and a fear of Woodbury 2.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> You're not Daryl.  My point is, for Daryl "family" = "Merle," which has to bring up strange connotations in that context.
> 
> I'm certainly not disputing how Rick meant it, or even how Daryl took it. It just had to be a strange moment for Daryl. His post-zombie-apocalypse chosen family is far better than the one he was born into.
> 
> By the way, seems to me that Daryl missed a golden opportunity to save them all a lot of hassle. Joe forgot to claim Rick.


I think when Daryl was out with Beth and away from the others, he realized that "family" did not have to equal JUST Merle anymore. And family did nt have to treat him the way Merle treated him. Heck, it could go back as far as to when Merle died and how, that he started to realize this. We have seen it little by little that last half season and some of it with Beth.

His being found by Joe and falling in with them, even for a few days, I felt made him really realize what he had grown a lot.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

betts4 said:


> I think when Daryl was out with Beth and away from the others, he realized that "family" did not have to equal JUST Merle anymore. And family did nt have to treat him the way Merle treated him. Heck, it could go back as far as to when Merle died and how, that he started to realize this. We have seen it little by little that last half season and some of it with Beth.
> 
> His being found by Joe and falling in with them, even for a few days, I felt made him really realize what he had grown a lot.


I agree with all of that. But there's no way having somebody you love and respect call you "brother" isn't going to bounce around in your skull a little strangely when your actual brother is Merle.

That's all.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

I think Daryl is very much 'over' Merle. I think he also fancies himself family with the others now.

I liked the ridding of the Claimed gang. It was the catalyst for Rick getting his cajones back. 

I also thought it was kind of weird the way they were going to watch the place but the next thing you know they were all jumping the fence. I guess they figured nothing was going to happen outside so they needed to check out the inside of the buildings.

There was one point, IIRC, before they were being chased when you could hear people calling for help. It seemed like they didn't hear it. I would think that if I (the queen of ear-ringing) could hear it anybody could. It was very quick, though.

I didn't really appreciate the snipers were just shooting at their feet. I thought 'oh boy, another dire situation where everybody who knew how to shoot suddenly cannot hit the broad side of a barn'. But still, when they were shooting up at them you'd think they would get some hits. Those would have been pretty easy shots for people like these, who could shoot your eye out from the length of a football field.

All in all, it was pretty good. It got pretty tense when the Claimed gang showed up. I was afraid somebody would be lost in that. Some fun talk about the neck-chewing scene on TD.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

sharkster said:


> I didn't really appreciate the snipers were just shooting at their feet. I thought 'oh boy, another dire situation where everybody who knew how to shoot suddenly cannot hit the broad side of a barn'. But still, when they were shooting up at them you'd think they would get some hits. Those would have been pretty easy shots for people like these, who could shoot your eye out from the length of a football field.


They were really good shots! They were trying NOT to hit them!

But it was so weird that when they entered the room, they had to put their weapons down, were patted down, and then they could pick them back up. Was that just so they could take inventory of EXACTLY what weapons they had, so they could get them into the train like that without having to frisk them again?


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Interesting correlation between Rick's explanation of how a snare works: creating a funnel and directing the prey to the noose and exactly what happened at Terminus.


I REALLY hope it doesn't turn out to be Cannibals.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

pmyers said:


> Interesting correlation between Rick's explanation of how a snare works: creating a funnel and directing the prey to the noose and exactly what happened at Terminus.
> 
> I REALLY hope it doesn't turn out to be Cannibals.


Yeah, classic foreshadowing that probably none of us picked up on!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> By the way, seems to me that Daryl missed a golden opportunity to save them all a lot of hassle. Joe forgot to claim Rick.


That's exactly what I thought Daryl was going to say when he walked into the camp.



MikeMar said:


> They were really good shots! They were trying NOT to hit them!


Sharkster was saying she's surprised nobody from Rick's crew hit any of the snipers.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I could have done without all the lame flashbacks with Hershel and Rick becoming a farmer and other scenes in the prison... really a huge waste of time when they could have explored Terminus or Glenn's group more. 

Also, I think the phrase "get them a plate" means "get them some drugged food so we can overtake them". 

And enough with the boring, drawn out dialog (like between Michonne and Carl). Blech. Get on to the main plot and action at Terminus.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> You're not Daryl.
> By the way, seems to me that Daryl missed a golden opportunity to save them all a lot of hassle. Joe forgot to claim Rick.


The problem is he could not claim everybody. So even if he saved Rick Carl and Michonne would probably have been toast in response.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Hank said:


> I could have done without all the lame flashbacks with Hershel and Rick becoming a farmer and other scenes in the prison... really a huge waste of time when they could have explored Terminus or Glenn's group more.
> 
> Also, I think the phrase "get them a plate" means "get them some drugged food so we can overtake them".
> 
> And enough with the boring, drawn out dialog (like between Michonne and Carl). Blech. Get on to the main plot and action at Terminus.


The whole point of character development this season for Rick was that he wanted to gentler and softer for Carl. That has been stated by the producers.
The flash back was to remind of us that. The scene with the claimers was to show Rick give up and that. All of that led up to the final line having meaning where he says they don't know who their dealing with.

That was a good catch on the gauntlet foreshadowing. I think the other aspect of the chase through the gauntlet was to layout clues as to what terminus is about. We should probably create a list:

Bones
Candles
Names
We don't trust anybody
A

What else?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

zalusky said:


> The problem is he could not claim everybody. So even if he saved Rick Carl and Michonne would probably have been toast in response.


Why? Is there something about the "claimed" rule that says Daryl couldn't claim all three of them?


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> How did that guy in the middle of the road get totally encircled by the walkers? It's not like the walkers are as well coordinated as the Seattle Seahawks defense. Unless he was blind or had a peg leg, he should have been able to juke and jive around them and run before they closed in on him.


I saw that and was thinking they had some contest for a fan to get a walk on part. It was just a weird situation.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> But maybe a bit confusing, considering who Daryl's actual brother was...
> 
> Which is to say, I suspect that remark had unintended resonances.


Anyone play the walking dead game? I was picturing some text above his head when Rick said that..."Daryl will remember that"



sharkster said:


> There was one point, IIRC, before they were being chased when you could hear people calling for help. It seemed like they didn't hear it. I would think that if I (the queen of ear-ringing) could hear it anybody could. It was very quick, though.


I heard the cries for help, it was during the running. Not sure if it was before or after the room with the candles (I think right before). Daryl said something and Rick said just go...or something like that, but they definitely acknowledged it. I'll have to re-watch.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I think Joe would have asserted a prior claim on Rick.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> Why? Is there something about the "claimed" rule that says Daryl couldn't claim all three of them?


I think the problem was that Carl was already claimed!


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Test said:


> I think the problem was that Carl was already claimed!


But the rapist didn't say "Claim!" And we've established you have to actually say "Claim!" to be entitled to something.

It would be a much better world if there was a blooper reel shot of Daryl running around pointing at everybody, yelling "CLAIM! CLAIM! CLAIM!" And Joe shaking his head in self-disgust, and conceding the point.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

zalusky said:


> The whole point of character development this season for Rick was that he wanted to gentler and softer for Carl. That has been stated by the producers.
> The flash back was to remind of us that. *The scene with the claimers was to show Rick give up and that. * All of that led up to the final line having meaning where he says they don't know who their dealing with.


I agree that the flashbacks served as a juxtaposition with the situation Rick found himself in with Joe's gang.
But I disagree that he 'gave up' Farmer Rick.

The flashbacks reminded us how hard Herschel worked to convince Rick that he had to hold on to his humanity so that he could impart it to Carl right along side being handy with a gun and dealing with all of the horrors of the apocalypse.

That Carl was so upset by the dispatch of Joe and worried about all of them becoming monsters tells me that Herschel's legacy will indeed live on.

This episode showed us that Rick is now _both_ a warrior and a nurturing father. He has successfully incorporated Farmer Rick into his being- there is no longer a dichotomy between "farmer" and "killer" in his head. The two have been integrated.

He is Rick Grimes- that's "who he is."
Killer. Nurturer. Father. Teacher. Destroyer of bad guys.
He is only now his fully formed ultimate potential.

And _that's_ why the Termites better buckle up.

ETA: I feel as if I have explained that badly.
As much as I hate copying and pasting stuff I write on one forum to another I'm doing it now because I had more time to think when I wrote this earlier today on another site-


> I enjoyed the flashbacks quite a bit.
> 
> For me, they showed us Rick being almost forced by Herschel to spend some time in a more centered place. One from which he would emerge stronger and more capable of handling the situation in general. The down time was necessary for Rick to settle and find himself, both physically and emotionally.
> 
> ...


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

I thought the rabbit snare / foreshadowing was pretty obvious.

The more I think about this it doesn't make sense. Why give them their weapons back, why shuffle them into a car with extremely risky and bullet-costing shooting. Why not just shoot them and eat em up. Perhaps there is more going on, slave trading perhaps ?


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Cearbhaill said:


> He is Rick Grimes- that's "who he is."
> Killer. Nurturer. Father. Teacher. Destroyer of bad guys.
> He is only now his fully formed ultimate potential.


Exactly!

The termites will now witness the firepower of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL battle station!

Wait .... what?


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

I read that the producers said somewhere that it becomes predictable to kill a major character at the mid and late season finales, so I appreciated that they did not do it.
We may feel cheated but you can't say its predictable.

Most seasons ended with a transition of sorts like the one with the prison in the distance or them leaving the CDC.

This one ended with a cliffhanger and we are going to have to wait!


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

JohnB1000 said:


> I thought the rabbit snare / foreshadowing was pretty obvious.
> 
> The more I think about this it doesn't make sense. Why give them their weapons back, why shuffle them into a car with extremely risky and bullet-costing shooting. Why not just shoot them and eat em up. Perhaps there is more going on, slave trading perhaps ?


How long does dead meat keep? Winter is arriving soon. They'll need a lot for the next few months.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Termite Chef: "Who wants some shish-ka-BOB?"
Termite #1: "I can't ... I've had my PHIL."
Termite #2: "I feel like a salad. Can you mix up some ROSE, DAISY, LILY & FERN with a balsamic vinagraitte?"
Termite Chef: "Okay, but remember that we're having all-you-can-eat ASIAN tomorrow!"


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

You'd still be hungry 2 hours later! hehe


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Test said:


> Winter is arriving soon.


I believe the correct phrasing is "Winter is Coming!" (watch out for the white walkers...)


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

pmyers said:


> You'd still be hungry 2 hours later! hehe


Well Glenn is safe then


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## NJ_HB (Mar 21, 2007)

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igDzM4CyWa8#t=130[/media]

Not trying to hijack, but I thought you guys may enjoy this bit.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Test said:


> How long does dead meat keep? Winter is arriving soon. They'll need a lot for the next few months.


Winter isn't usually a big deal in southern Georgia.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

NJ_HB said:


> [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igDzM4CyWa8#t=130[/media]
> 
> Not trying to hijack, but I thought you guys may enjoy this bit.


That's a lot of work for minimal reaction. He would have had the same reaction without the makeup...who doesn't recoil when they see someone run at them from under a table?


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

The only thing I'm not clear on is why did the Termites shoot their own guy? It didn't seem like Rick made any movements for it to be an accident.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

NJ_HB said:


> [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igDzM4CyWa8#t=130[/media]
> 
> Not trying to hijack, but I thought you guys may enjoy this bit.


That was fun. Thanks for sharing.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

pmyers said:


> The only thing I'm not clear on is why did the Termites shoot their own guy? It didn't seem like Rick made any movements for it to be an accident.


Look to me like Tasha Yar was about to shoot at Rick and he spun Alex around to get shot instead of getting shot in the back


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

The lead guy (Gareth?) gave the signal to take the shot and right before it seemed like the victim knew what was coming and was pleading with him to hold off. 

Might be policy not to negotiate, plus if they are cannibals the guy will be helping out in other ways now.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

heySkippy said:


> Winter isn't usually a big deal in southern Georgia.


Is the show's Terminus not in Atlanta? That was the original name for Atlanta, in the 1830s. And that's definitely not southern Georgia.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

zordude said:


> Look to me like Tasha Yar was about to shoot at Rick and he spun Alex around to get shot instead of getting shot in the back


That's how it looked to me.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

martinp13 said:


> Is the show's Terminus not in Atlanta? That was the original name for Atlanta, in the 1830s. And that's definitely not southern Georgia.


When showed on the map nailed to the telephone pole (or somewhere) it looked like Macon.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

heySkippy said:


> Winter isn't usually a big deal in southern Georgia.


But when it is, whoa nellie!


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Shaunnick said:


> But when it is, whoa nellie!


Well played.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Snowmageddon, zombie apocalypse. Snowmageddon, zombie apocalypse.

So hard to choose...


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

pmyers said:


> Interesting correlation between Rick's explanation of how a snare works: creating a funnel and directing the prey to the noose and exactly what happened at Terminus.


I didn't get that - but that's a good catch!



pmyers said:


> The only thing I'm not clear on is why did the Termites shoot their own guy? It didn't seem like Rick made any movements for it to be an accident.


It was a hand signal - and then I think Rick used the guy as a body shield.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Anubys said:


> They also wasted a lot of prime planting space on flowers. I would think every inch of those planting beds would be reserved for vegetables, fruit, and herbs!


They're going to need lots of herbs for the nasty meat they're eating.



JohnB1000 said:


> The more I think about this it doesn't make sense. Why give them their weapons back, why shuffle them into a car with extremely risky and bullet-costing shooting. Why not just shoot them and eat em up. Perhaps there is more going on, slave trading perhaps ?


Living on humans is so tricky--as someone said, you have no refrigeration to keep the meat. Make it into jerky maybe? And if you have to feed them until you're ready to eat them, that's counterproductive. I wonder what the time frame is between eating a meager diet and becoming a tough, stringy steak?

I would guess from the armed men surrounding the fence, that there is no Albert. They just let them scout and break in so they're more comfortable. They probably know exactly where Rick buried his guns.

I like the idea that they frisk them in a non-threatening manner so they know exactly how many weapons to collect when they take them.

The candles could be a hint at some kind of cult--human sacrifices maybe? Which wouldn't necessarily mean they will eat the sacrifices.


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## waldingrl (Jan 19, 2005)

The place is pretty walker free - maybe that has something to do with all of the flowers around the perimeter - masks some of the human scent??

Perhaps A is some sort of assessment holding place? If someone may be of value then they might be spared for work detail or say...farming  ...leaving a way for Rick to have some value having all of that time with Hershel and farming at the prison. 

Also, seems like women would be more likely to be spared to repopulate and bring kids up as termites.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

zordude said:


> Look to me like Tasha Yar was about to shoot at Rick and he spun Alex around to get shot instead of getting shot in the back


I guess that confuses me because it didn't look like they wanted to shoot anybody. I guess they were willing to kill Rick. Of course then there would have been a big firefight and both sides would have lost people.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

They intentionally shot Alex, so that Rick would be unprotected and forced through the gauntlet. That was my take on it anyway.

It's not much of a sacrifice on their part. After all they can consume Alex and make his power part of theirs.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

The more I think about it, the more I absolutely hate this cannibal theory. If that is the way the writers are going, they've done a sh*tty job setting it up because everything they have done all season goes against it. We've seen all season, that pretty much every house has food and just 2 episodes ago they were talking about all the wild deer running around.

The only way I could buy cannibilsm is as a total last resort, which isn't a picture the writers have even started to paint.

The only hint of hunger was THIS episode between Rick and Michone but that only comes about because they've been on the run.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

pmyers said:


> The more I think about it, the more I absolutely hate this cannibal theory. If that is the way the writers are going, they've done a sh*tty job setting it up because everything they have done all season goes against it. We've seen all season, that pretty much every house has food and just 2 episodes ago they were talking about all the wild deer running around.
> 
> The only way I could buy cannibilsm is as a total last resort, which isn't a picture the writers have even started to paint.
> 
> The only hint of hunger was THIS episode between Rick and Michone but that only comes about because they've been on the run.


Your assuming hunger is the only reason to be a cannibal! We don't know any backstory yet. Maybe they don't want to go out and forage anymore. Look at the room with all the names and lost in it. Maybe they prefer to stay in their fortress. Maybe they just have another crazy leader!


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

pmyers said:


> The more I think about it, the more I absolutely hate this cannibal theory. If that is the way the writers are going, they've done a sh*tty job setting it up because everything they have done all season goes against it. We've seen all season, that pretty much every house has food and just 2 episodes ago they were talking about all the wild deer running around.
> 
> The only way I could buy cannibilsm is as a total last resort, which isn't a picture the writers have even started to paint.
> 
> The only hint of hunger was THIS episode between Rick and Michone but that only comes about because they've been on the run.


I came to post this also . Cannibals make no logical sense in the first place (and if there are some westernized cannibals around how did they all gravitate to this one place), then the practicality of inviting "everyone" into the place and then keeping them in train cars, fed or unfed, with unpredictable numbers, weapons etc. etc. None of it makes real logical sense to me.

If people can just walk in, what if a group like Daryl's temporary friends shows up and just attacks them ?

I hold out hope that there is something more to this.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Heck, maybe they are cooking up the walker meat.

EEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

pmyers said:


> The more I think about it, the more I absolutely hate this cannibal theory. If that is the way the writers are going, they've done a sh*tty job setting it up because everything they have done all season goes against it. We've seen all season, that pretty much every house has food and just 2 episodes ago they were talking about all the wild deer running around.
> 
> The only way I could buy cannibilsm is as a total last resort, which isn't a picture the writers have even started to paint.
> 
> The only hint of hunger was THIS episode between Rick and Michone but that only comes about because they've been on the run.


Canniblism can be started by hunger and then continued as a way to get people to join. Read Lucifer's Hammer. Great book and in it are some cannibals - they started as a small group that were starving. Then the eating became a ritual to get more to join - and it was like - eat this and you are one of us because you ate and now who else will want you. Some were forced to eat and once they did they were shamed into staying there because regular non cannibals would be disgusted by them.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Probably the same way walkers can magically appear behind somebody in an open field...


This drives me crazy in many tv shows. People just appear in closed/locked rooms and there's no possible way a character couldn't have noticed them. It's like perhipheral vision or just plain awareness doesn't exist in tv-land.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

pmyers said:


> The only way I could buy cannibalism is as a total last resort, which isn't a picture the writers have even started to paint.


Ah, but that's because you're not a monster.

You should try to see things from other people's perspectives once in a while.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

waldingrl said:


> Perhaps A is some sort of assessment holding place?


Maybe "A" is the estimated quality of the meat on the captives, like grade A beef.

I really hope it's not human cannibals. We've had undead cannibals since the series began. It should be alien cannibals.


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## Jolt (Jan 9, 2006)

cheesesteak said:


> Maybe "A" is the estimated quality of the meat on the captives, like grade A beef.
> 
> I really hope it's not human cannibals. We've had undead cannibals since the series began. It should be alien cannibals.


smeek


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

Cearbhaill said:


> When showed on the map nailed to the telephone pole (or somewhere) it looked like Macon.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

I bet Terminus started out with the intent of being a place for refuges but then some bad group came in and things got out of control, so the original people killed them off. When they were being corralled they ran through one part of the complex that looked like there was a fire or some type of battle. 

So to keep that from happening again perhaps these original people realized that at this point the live people are just as dangerous if not more than the walkers, so they came up with a way to mechanize eliminating the human enemies, just by assuming all of them are enemies. There didn't' seem to be any walkers around the terminus area, perhaps they were cutting the people up to use them for bait to lure the walkers away? 

I bet a good part of the beginning of next season will be dedicated to showing the back-story behind Terminus and we will in a way become sympathetic to them and what they endured up to this point. 

So were we to assume that "the plate" they were being fixed was human, and it was laced with some drug to knock them out? Perhaps that guy that they encountered early on in the episode who was easily surrounded by walkers had escaped from Terminus and was incapacitated by drugs and could have warned them about Terminus if they had rescued him. 

Also it will be interesting to see how they are able to kill the people and butcher them apart before they turn. 

With all of these train tracks, I am still waiting for a locomotive to come around the corner driven by Carole or Tyresse and hook up the rail car and tow them out of there.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

martinp13 said:


> Is the show's Terminus not in Atlanta? That was the original name for Atlanta, in the 1830s. And that's definitely not southern Georgia.


The location is in the Atlanta area.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.731...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s4ItQ8jL_6AvcV_U8oezR0A!2e0


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## Boot (Mar 15, 2000)

pmyers said:


> The more I think about it, the more I absolutely hate this cannibal theory. If that is the way the writers are going, they've done a sh*tty job setting it up because everything they have done all season goes against it. We've seen all season, that pretty much every house has food and just 2 episodes ago they were talking about all the wild deer running around.
> 
> The only way I could buy cannibilsm is as a total last resort, which isn't a picture the writers have even started to paint.
> 
> The only hint of hunger was THIS episode between Rick and Michone but that only comes about because they've been on the run.


I think it's going to turn out that these people (or at least a core group of them) were cannibals before the ZA started. The ZA just gave them the freedom and the power to practice more openly, set traps, lure prey, build an army, etc. For them, this was the best thing that could have happened.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

DeDondeEs said:


> I bet Terminus started out with the intent of being a place for refuges but then some bad group came in and things got out of control, so the original people killed them off. When they were being corralled they ran through one part of the complex that looked like there was a fire or some type of battle.
> 
> So to keep that from happening again perhaps these original people realized that at this point the live people are just as dangerous if not more than the walkers, so they came up with a way to mechanize eliminating the human enemies, just by assuming all of them are enemies. There didn't' seem to be any walkers around the terminus area, perhaps they were cutting the people up to use them for bait to lure the walkers away?
> 
> ...


If you are scared of people then why post signs all over the place asking them to come, drawing all the right and wrong kind of people ? They have no idea if there is any army of 100 people out there or even the actual US Army or similar.

I don't understand how a community of cannibals would develop if they kill and eat everyone who arrives.

From the Forbes Episode Review



> Im not a huge fan of the cannibal idea. Cannibalism isnt particularly efficient, for one thing. In terms of pure economics, the Terminus crew would be better off utilizing human capital for any number of other purposes. There arent that many survivors out there, so relying on humans for meat is going to likely be more work than its worth. On the other hand, finding highly skilled zombie apocalypse survivors could lead to all sorts of other beneficial gains for the community.
> 
> So yeah, cannibalism is poor economics and I have a bit of a hard time believing that an entire community like this could be okay with the whole thing. Yes, we have instances of cannibalism in our historythe Donner party, once desperate enough, took to cannibalism. A few serial killers have as well. But an entire community, relatively safe in their well-fortified base, with plenty of room and resources to grow food and probably raise livestock?
> 
> It seems like a stretch.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

JohnB1000 said:


> I came to post this also . Cannibals make no logical sense in the first place (and if there are some westernized cannibals around how did they all gravitate to this one place), then the practicality of inviting "everyone" into the place and then keeping them in train cars, fed or unfed, with unpredictable numbers, weapons etc. etc. None of it makes real logical sense to me.
> 
> If people can just walk in, what if a group like Daryl's temporary friends shows up and just attacks them ?
> 
> I hold out hope that there is something more to this.


How about they aren't doing it for food or maybe it didn't start that way at least. We already saw with Tara that people learn about walkers coming back in different ways. What if terminus was originally open to having people join, then slowly they were dying of starvation or old age or any other natural cause (without others around to see they died) then a couple hours later they come back as walkers. One crazy person has a crazy idea that eating the "healthy" keeps them from just turning; sells it as the cure and everyone makes a pact. Then it starts off with them eating their own group (hence the shrine), then they branch out to luring people in.

Or they are crazys from the neighboring insane asylum


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

DeDondeEs said:


> Also it will be interesting to see how they are able to kill the people and butcher them apart before they turn.


A shot to the head would do. Decapitation. Sledgehammer to the skull. And so on.

Somehow I keep going back to an interview somewhere with Danai Gurira where she said "Terminus is not what it seems."
I've half a mind that they are laughing at us talking about cannibals all summer when the truth is something else entirely.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Cearbhaill said:


> A shot to the head would do. Decapitation. Sledgehammer to the skull. And so on.
> 
> Somehow I keep going back to an interview somewhere with *Danai Gurira where she said "Terminus is not what it seems."*
> I've half a mind that they are laughing at us talking about cannibals all summer when the truth is something else entirely.


So on the one hand that could mean "it's cannibals not the safe haven it appears" but hopefully it means there is more to this.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

Yeah there is no food around Terminus but apparently there are many Yankee Candle stores in the immediate area to ransack.


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## Boot (Mar 15, 2000)

DeDondeEs said:


> Yeah there is no food around Terminus but apparently there are many Yankee Candle stores in the immediate area to ransack.


 Actually, it did make me think that a large group must have all been in that room just prior to Rick's group's arrival, for all of those candles to be burning strong.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

Not looking for spoilers, just a yes, no, or sorta response. Is Terminus covered in the comics?


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

DeDondeEs said:


> Not looking for spoilers, just a yes, no, or sorta response. Is Terminus covered in the comics?


No. Not as such. There is no place called "Terminus" in the comics, nor is there an analogous location with a different name.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

No frickin' way these are cannibals -- too much obvious evidence and too many obvious hints...


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## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

betts4 said:


> Canniblism can be started by hunger and then continued as a way to get people to join. Read Lucifer's Hammer. Great book and in it are some cannibals - they started as a small group that were starving. Then the eating became a ritual to get more to join - and it was like - eat this and you are one of us because you ate and now who else will want you. Some were forced to eat and once they did they were shamed into staying there because regular non cannibals would be disgusted by them.


You realize people here don't read books?  I have read quite a few apocalypse novels. Those with cannibalism that I can AFAIK - Lucifer's Hammer, The Road, The Passage, CyberStorm, One Second After.... I am sure there are more examples. End of world, hunger, cults, etc...

Plus human meat tastes just like pork!


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

I thought Carl appeared to be wearing a wig in this episode.
When his hat fell off during the prison farming flashback, his hair should've been sporting a major case of "hat-head".


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

getreal said:


> I thought Carl appeared to be wearing a wig in this episode.
> When his hat fell off during the prison farming flashback, his hair should've been sporting a major case of "hat-head".


Not answering your question, but on Talking Dead they talked about how that was the last scene they filmed because they needed to get their hair cut shorter for it to match earlier in the season. They also told the guy who played Herschal to keep his pony tail and beard for a couple of months, without saying why.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Peter000 said:


> Not answering your question, but on Talking Dead they talked about how that was the last scene they filmed because they needed to get their hair cut shorter for it to match earlier in the season. They also told the guy who played Herschal to keep his pony tail and beard for a couple of months, without saying why.


I had posted somewhere that I thought Maggie might have been at risk because when she was on Talking Dead her hair was shorter making me think she had moved on.

Now I know that the last scenes filmed were the flashbacks and they cut their hair for that. They got me on that one and showed that they are not wigs.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

Casting spoiler



Spoiler



Gareth has been made a regular for season 5.

https://movies.yahoo.com/news/walking-dead-promotes-trio-series-regular-season-5-050000414.html


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## Vendikarr (Feb 24, 2004)

DeDondeEs said:


> Also it will be interesting to see how they are able to kill the people and butcher them apart before they turn.


You're assuming they butcher them after they're dead. Without any refrigeration, they have to keep their meat fresh. So start by removing limbs and stop the blood flow with a tourniquet, and then cauterize the wound. When they are ready for the torso, they decapitate the person, thus stopping the body from turning.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

_Walking Dead_ Post Mortem: Robert Kirkman Shares 'Scary' Terminus Intel, Talks 'Difficult' Carl Scene, Promises Quick Answers In Season 5

(Spoilers, but super-mild and generic)


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

The other thing I was thinking is what if these Terminus folks are sort of hybrid walker/humans where the virus is developing inside of them giving them the walker urges to eat human but they don't have the visual appearance


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

DeDondeEs said:


> The other thing I was thinking is what if these Terminus folks are sort of hybrid walker/humans where the virus is developing inside of them giving them the walker urges to eat human but they don't have the visual appearance


That's the first thought I've read that makes a little bit of sense.


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## GameGuru (Dec 12, 2003)

I am surprised no one has mentioned this yet but how did Rick recognize the pocket watch by just the chain? Why did Rick think no one else would have a pocket watch so that chain must have been connected to Hershel's watch?

Also about the whole cannibal thing I think in the last couple of episodes they did show food was hard to come by, only catching a rabbit here or there. With food being scarce and the danger of walkers outside of the walls (and as some have pointed out the names on the wall of the candle room might be those they lost on food runs) maybe they felt this was the route to go.

Sent from my AT100 using Tapatalk


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

GameGuru said:


> I am surprised no one has mentioned this yet but how did Rick recognize the pocket watch by just the chain? Why did Rick think no one else would have a pocket watch so that chain must have been connected to Hershel's watch?


He had already recognized a backpack (and possibly another item; can't remember the exact order of things) that belonged to one of the group, so he already had a pretty good suspicion. While he couldn't be sure the pocket watch was the exact same one that belonged to Glenn, it was a pretty good assumption based on already recognizing the other stuff.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Also Glenn's police riot gear


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

David Platt said:


> He had already recognized a backpack (and possibly another item; can't remember the exact order of things) that belonged to one of the group, so he already had a pretty good suspicion. While he couldn't be sure the pocket watch was the exact same one that belonged to Glenn, it was a pretty good assumption based on already recognizing the other stuff.





Hank said:


> Also Glenn's police riot gear


Glenn's body armor, Maggie's poncho, and Hershel's pocket watch.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Vendikarr said:


> You're assuming they butcher them after they're dead. Without any refrigeration, they have to keep their meat fresh.


You are assuming they do not have any way to keep meat frozen. There are a couple ways they could do it.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

To me the biggest clue to the Termites are the words on the wall in the candle room.

"&#8220;NEVER AGAIN NEVER TRUST WE FIRST, ALWAYS."


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Cearbhaill said:


> A shot to the head would do. Decapitation. Sledgehammer to the skull. And so on.
> 
> Somehow I keep going back to an interview somewhere with Danai Gurira where she said "Terminus is not what it seems."
> I've half a mind that they are laughing at us talking about cannibals all summer when the truth is something else entirely.


I REALLY hope so.

I like whoever's idea it was that perhaps they lure humans in to use them as "bait" for walkers and that's why their area is walker free.

I think that meat grilling is just a red herring.


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## GameGuru (Dec 12, 2003)

You are correct, I just rewatched the scene and he noticed backpack, riot gear, poncho and then watch. I missed that the first time.

Sent from my AT100 using Tapatalk


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

pmyers said:


> I REALLY hope so.
> 
> I like whoever's idea it was that perhaps they lure humans in to use them as "bait" for walkers and that's why their area is walker free.
> 
> I think that meat grilling is just a red herring.


I think so as well. I think they have purposely made us think that they are cannibals and of course by leaving us hanging at the end of the year, the speculation will continue growing all summer.

The people at Terminus, may in fact, not be the "monsters" at all....what if they turn out to be the good guys?


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## brettatk (Oct 11, 2002)

More foreshadowing that they might be cannibals perhaps: Gareth calling Rick and them Ring Leader, Archer, Samurai, and boy when directing them to the freight car. Remember Rick's talk with Carl about not naming the pig as to not become attached to something that you're going to kill and eat?


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> _Walking Dead_ Post Mortem: Robert Kirkman Shares 'Scary' Terminus Intel, Talks 'Difficult' Carl Scene, Promises Quick Answers In Season 5
> 
> (Spoilers, but super-mild and generic)


Reading the comments section after that article, someone made the following clever connection: *TERMINUS + CANNIBALS = CANNIBUS*

:up:


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Looks like a really nice smoker they have set up there, but they really should have seasoned Rick's group before putting them in.


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

I don't read many threads (or blogs or anything else) regarding shows I watch, so I had no idea about the Cannibal theory. I really hope that doesn't turn out to be true, but I did enjoy this episode. A lot of quality, most of which have already been pointed out.

That being said, there were two things that bothered me



john4200 said:


> I could not believe how incompetently Rick et al. scouted that place.


This is the first. With signs everywhere leading people to Terminus, I would expect to see many, many people upon arriving. When I didn't immediately see that, I would have suspected something was up and taken my time.

I also thought it was a bit too convenient that the train car they happened to be put in also housed their friends - and only their friends. Now, maybe because he recognized the watch, et. al they placed them in their on purpose (although if I was running terminus, I would make it a point to seperate them from their friends), but that nobody else was in there just seemed a bit lazy on the writers part.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Jstkiddn said:


> The people at Terminus, may in fact, not be the "monsters" at all....what if they turn out to be the good guys?


I've having a hard time inventing a scenario where they are good guys when they had Maggie's poncho and Glenn's riot armor & watch, not to mention the whole shoot at their feet and lock 'em in boxcar thing.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

My only explination for Rick letting his guard down, and same with Maggie....was that they were so desperate and hoping for Terminus that they let it cloud their judgement.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

heySkippy said:


> I've having a hard time inventing a scenario where they are good guys when they had Maggie's poncho and Glenn's riot armor & watch, not to mention the whole shoot at their feet and lock 'em in boxcar thing.


The Termites are actually aliens who brought the zombie virus from space and Terminus is their HQ on Earth. They've arrived to rid the world of all a-holes, sportos, motorheads, geeks, sluts, pinheads, dweebies, wonkers, and richies who they've turned into zombies. Only the good people remain to re-populate the planet.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Maybe Terminus is equivalent to the Dharma Initiative.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

If you read Rob's linked story in post #131, re: whether Terminus is bad guys or good guys, you'll see that


Spoiler



they're bad guys....


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

getreal said:


> Maybe Terminus is equivalent to the Dharma Initiative.


That's from LOST, right? I never watched LOST.

(actually, that's not true -- watched the first and last episode.. and glad I never watched anything in between).


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Hank said:


> That's from LOST, right? I never watched LOST.
> 
> (actually, that's not true -- watched the first and last episode.. and glad I never watched anything in between).


Then it is true. You didn't watch Lost.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I agree with whoever here said that they would have stopped running and holed up in one of those rooms. They knew they were being "herded".


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

I thought this was a good finale. The food theme ran all through it. The farming in the flashbacks, Rick and Michonne talking about always being hungry, then Terminus, which had its own solution to the food problem. There was also the scene of Rick telling them how the rabbit trap worked, with the rabbit following the dugout trail, then getting trapped by the noose, just as Rick and the others followed the trail (train tracks and signs) to Terminus and became trapped as food. Well done.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

DeDondeEs said:


> The other thing I was thinking is what if these Terminus folks are sort of hybrid walker/humans where the virus is developing inside of them giving them the walker urges to eat human but they don't have the visual appearance


That's clever - I like it. Thematically I can kind of see it -- In broad strokes, this is a show about "The Walking Dead" meaning not just walkers, but also people who are living but good as dead. It's about what you sacrifice to keep going. It's about whether living, no matter the cost, is worth it. That's an issue Lori and Rick discussed quite a bit when she was pregnant. There was quite a bit of talk when the show started, if I recall, about Rick and crew being the true "Walking Dead." So, in that context, "hybrid walker/humans where the virus is developing inside of them giving them the walker urges to eat human but they don't have the visual appearance" would be an interesting wrinkle to explore - a new way of blurring the line between living and dead. I really don't think the show is going to be doing that, though.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> If you read Rob's linked story in post #131, re: whether Terminus is bad guys or good guys, you'll see that
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Had me confused for a minute. It's '*they're*'


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

TonyTheTiger said:


> Had me confused for a minute. It's '*they're*'


Ha...good catch...corrected!


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Hcour said:


> I thought this was a good finale. The food theme ran all through it. The farming in the flashbacks, Rick and Michonne talking about always being hungry, then Terminus, which had its own solution to the food problem. There was also the scene of Rick telling them how the rabbit trap worked, with the rabbit following the dugout trail, then getting trapped by the noose, just as Rick and the others followed the trail (train tracks and signs) to Terminus and became trapped as food. Well done.


Don't forget about Rick necking with Joe.  He went canniballisitic (TM) on big bad Joe. And, according to Talking Dead, he tasted like chicken!


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## KyleLC (Feb 6, 2002)

spartanstew said:


> I also thought it was a bit too convenient that the train car they happened to be put in also housed their friends - and only their friends. Now, maybe because he recognized the watch, et. al they placed them in their on purpose (although if I was running terminus, I would make it a point to seperate them from their friends), but that nobody else was in there just seemed a bit lazy on the writers part.


There was only one train car, and the other people had already been eaten or whatever.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

KyleLC said:


> There was only one train car, and the other people had already been eaten or whatever.


If there was only one place where they were keeping captives, what about the people that were calling for help as Rick and Co. were being herded? And if there's only one place where they're keeping captives, why the need to designate this particular boxcar as "A?"


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## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

Vendikarr said:


> You're assuming they butcher them after they're dead. Without any refrigeration, they have to keep their meat fresh. So start by removing limbs and stop the blood flow with a tourniquet, and then cauterize the wound. When they are ready for the torso, they decapitate the person, thus stopping the body from turning.


In "The Passage" I believe that is how they did it. Chained them down in a cellar and just chop off a limb and as needed for the stew. This method keeps the meat fresh without the need for refrigeration.

Great final episode. Too bad we have to wait until October for more episodes. Unfortunately. the spin off won't be until 2015/16. If I was another network I'd be doing a zombie show before they get the spin off up and running. Unless they go all Twilight it would be a sure hit.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Johnny Dancing said:


> In "The Passage" I believe that is how they did it. Chained them down in a cellar and just chop off a limb and as needed for the stew. This method keeps the meat fresh without the need for refrigeration.


Unless they get diseased from the amputation(s). Which seems quite likely.


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## magaggie (Apr 9, 2002)

I think they wound up in car A because Glenn et al were the last "guests" to arrive, and the car simply wasn't full yet.


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## KyleLC (Feb 6, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> If there was only one place where they were keeping captives, what about the people that were calling for help as Rick and Co. were being herded?


Good point. I forgot about that.



DevdogAZ said:


> And if there's only one place where they're keeping captives, why the need to designate this particular boxcar as "A?"


I don't know. I rewatched the shootout and the "help!" may have been coming from what looked like a couple of stacked boxcars without wheels. From the angle shown, those had no prominent letter designations. None of the doorways they were prevented from passing through had letter markings on them either. Some people are assuming that if there's an "A," there must be a "B", etc. Maybe there's just an "A."


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Doesn't it seem strange that people are flocking to a place called "Terminus" without so much as batting an eye? The name itself would give me pause and make me rethink the situation about going to a place where I might be "Terminated."

Whether the Termites are cannibals or not remains to be seen. The fact that they showed a fenced-in area with fresh human skeletons that hadn't been completely stripped of meat indicates that the flesh is being used for something. Perhaps they're making all those candles out of the fat? Maybe they're raising pigs and are feeding them the flesh. Georgians do like their barbecue, after all. 

The candle room struck me as some sort of ritualistic setting, perhaps for human sacrifices like someone already mentioned. Maybe they're all Jewish and have to butcher the meet a certain way to keep it Kosher. OTOH, that would toss the pig theory out the window. 

The minimal population at Terminus when the first group arrived struck me as odd, considering the number of signs they had posted all over the place. Maybe they just need a better advertising agency. Either that or it's really the Hotel California in disguise.  People are checking in but they're definitely not leaving.

As Rick said, they just don't realize they're messing with the wrong people. The question isn't whether Rick's group will kick butt and live to fight another day, but rather which of his group will bite the big one next season. If there's anything we've learned about this show it's that anyone is expendable.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> Doesn't it seem strange that people are flocking to a place called "Terminus" without so much as batting an eye? The name itself would give me pause and make me rethink the situation about going to a place where I might be "Terminated."


Having learned because of this thread that Atlanta was originally called Terminus, I wouldn't think twice. I would think that all those Georgia natives on this show would have learned that in history class so they probably have always known that term.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

From Wiki -- "In Roman religion, Terminus was the god who protected boundary markers; his name was the Latin word for such a marker. _*Sacrifices were performed to sanctify each boundary stone*_, and landowners celebrated a festival called the "Terminalia" in Terminus' honor each year on February 23..."


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

I keep trying to decide why this all bothered me so much and in the end I think it's the predictability. We spend 1/2 a season slowly heading towards "Terminus" and, big surprise, it's not what they thought it was. Things like Herschel being executed where truly shocking, this, not so much.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

I don't know if this is a smeek but the letter A also looks like a mini gauntlet that has a door on it.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

If you eat a pig that ate people, are you a cannibal? If so, then I guess everyone who ate bacon in Deadwood is a cannibal. 

Where was the broadcast going that the woman was recording when they came in? Are there still short wave radios? At first I thought maybe she was talking to "Washington" where mullet boy is going, but it was just the same stuff off the signs.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

stellie93 said:


> If you eat a pig that ate people, are you a cannibal? If so, then I guess everyone who ate bacon in Deadwood is a cannibal.


Since Deadwood, my wife and I have never referred to a can/jar of peaches except as a F***ing can/jar of peaches


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> If you eat a pig that ate people, are you a cannibal? If so, then I guess everyone who ate bacon in Deadwood is a cannibal.  Where was the broadcast going that the woman was recording when they came in? Are there still short wave radios? At first I thought maybe she was talking to "Washington" where mullet boy is going, but it was just the same stuff off the signs.


Someone earlier (not sure if this episode or another) mentioned that they (the termites) had been broadcasting, so I'm assuming there are radios of some type still around. I believe it was said by someone in mullet boy's group?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Jstkiddn said:


> Someone earlier (not sure if this episode or another) mentioned that they (the termites) had been broadcasting, so I'm assuming there are radios of some type still around. I believe it was said by someone in mullet boy's group?


Well, we also saw them doing the broadcasts!


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

stellie93 said:


> ...Where was the broadcast going that the woman was recording when they came in? Are there still short wave radios? At first I thought maybe she was talking to "Washington" where mullet boy is going, but it was just the same stuff off the signs.


Didn't we hear the broadcast in the car when the group left for the medical supplies and ran into that giant hoard last season?


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## NashvilleKat (Dec 25, 2013)

Watched the last 3 episodes last night. I thought finale was disappointing but I guess it does leave us hanging as to who has not been offered or signed a contract for next season.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, we also saw them doing the broadcasts!


They have electricity to do the broadcast but couldn't find a tape recorder!


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## voripteth (Apr 9, 2003)

On second watching I heard people pleading to be let out of one of the train cars they passed. I'm struggling to accept Rick's inept tactics while being herded. Charge from a building with cover to an open courtyard where everyone can shoot at you? I guess they just wanted to escape no matter what but it felt out of character for them to be so foolish.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> If you eat a pig that ate people, are you a cannibal? If so, then I guess everyone who ate bacon in Deadwood is a cannibal.


If a mountain lion eats a deer, does that make him a herbivore/vegetarian because the deer ate plants? 



pmyers said:


> Didn't we hear the broadcast in the car when the group left for the medical supplies and ran into that giant hoard last season?


The lady was broadcasting to speakers within the Terminus compound, as far as I could tell. But I like the idea that the broadcasts may be reaching car radios for any survivors who might be driving a vehicle as a means to lure them to Terminus. Which season & episode had a radio broadcast that might have been from Terminus?


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

getreal said:


> The lady was broadcasting to speakers within the Terminus compound, as far as I could tell.


No, it was definitely a radio broadcast. Listen to what she says. She talks about how to get to Terminus, saying things like "there are maps at the crossings to help guide you on your journey".


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Just found this....linking because I don't know how to inline from the ipad. Interesting. (Not a spoiler....it's a scene from earlier in the season....episode 3) Is this the radio broadcast that was mentioned up thread?


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Jstkiddn said:


> Just found this....linking because I don't know how to inline from the ipad. Interesting. (Not a spoiler....it's a scene from earlier in the season. ) Is this the radio broadcast that was mentioned up thread?


Wow nice, def saying Terminus is a lie


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Didn't part of the group come upon a wounded/dying guy on the railroad tracks earlier in the season who warned them about whatever was at the end of the tracks? I vaguely remember something like that.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

heySkippy said:


> Didn't part of the group come upon a wounded/dying guy on the railroad tracks earlier in the season who warned them about whatever was at the end of the tracks? I vaguely remember something like that.


I'd have to go back to re-watch, but my recollection is that what he told them is that his mistake was NOT sticking to the train-tracks, and that they should follow the tracks to be safe.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

danterner said:


> I'd have to go back to re-watch, but my recollection is that what he told them is that his mistake was NOT sticking to the train-tracks, and that they should follow the tracks to be safe.


That's the way I remember it as well. He told them to follow the tracks and there was a safe place where they can take the children.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

MikeMar said:


> Wow nice, def saying Terminus is a lie


No, I think it's saying "We *ATE* the survivors..."


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

danterner said:


> No, I think it's saying "We *ATE* the survivors..."


In the comments someone said "Terminus.. arrive.. survive.."

Tough to tell!


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

the "ie" sound could be a blip of the word "survive" or "arrive".

Being on the safe side and spoilerizing. Not really a spoiler, but something I read elsewhere about a season 4 trailer shown at comic con:



Spoiler



The very end of the trailer shows the same scene, but the voice on the radio is a woman's and it's saying "sanctuary" and "those who arrive, survive". The trailer can be found here: http://www.amctv.com/the-walking-dead/videos/comic-con-trailer-the-walking-dead-season-4. Fast foward to 4:05.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

When they arrived at Terminus in this episode, the woman was sitting there broadcasting the message. I'm pretty sure that's the message heard earlier in the season.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

getreal said:


> ...The lady was broadcasting to speakers within the Terminus compound, as far as I could tell. But I like the idea that the broadcasts may be reaching car radios for any survivors who might be driving a vehicle as a means to lure them to Terminus. Which season & episode had a radio broadcast that might have been from Terminus?


That would not make any sense. She was certainly speaking to people outside the compound on the "public air waves", in the finale.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Anubys said:


> Since Deadwood, my wife and I have never referred to a can/jar of peaches except as a F***ing can/jar of peaches


Do you also call everyone c**ksuckers?


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I just rewatched and saw all the stuff you mentioned here that I missed. One thing I wondered was why when they told Carl to go to the train car HE WALKED SO SLOW! If they had said "don't run" or something, maybe, but he almost acted like he didn't want to go.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

getreal said:


> The lady was broadcasting to speakers within the Terminus compound, as far as I could tell. But I like the idea that the broadcasts may be reaching car radios for any survivors who might be driving a vehicle as a means to lure them to Terminus. Which season & episode had a radio broadcast that might have been from Terminus?


She was definitely not broadcasting to speakers in the Terminus compound. What would be the point if that? To attract every walker within ten miles? Since the perimeter of Terminus was mysteriously free of walkers, and since we didn't hear the broadcast when Rick and Co. we're doing their piss poor recon job, we can be pretty sure that the lady was broadcasting over airwaves and not over local speakers.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Since Walkers don't attack other Walkers, maybe eating people is a way to keep Walkers away.

A person a day keeps the Walkers away!


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

pmyers said:


> The more I think about it, the more I absolutely hate this cannibal theory. If that is the way the writers are going, they've done a sh*tty job setting it up because everything they have done all season goes against it. We've seen all season, that pretty much every house has food and just 2 episodes ago they were talking about all the wild deer running around.
> 
> The only way I could buy cannibilsm is as a total last resort, which isn't a picture the writers have even started to paint.
> 
> The only hint of hunger was THIS episode between Rick and Michone but that only comes about because they've been on the run.


Finding the occassional house with food doesn't mean they are well fed. Plus, venturing out to hunt or find what little food is out there can be very dangerous with all the zombies. Food isn't being produced and sold in stores...it must be scarce by now. You can't run to the store or have a pizza delivered. For those who are hungry enough and willing to resort to canabalism, why not have a place like Terminus where you are safe from zombies and put up signs telling your lunch to come to you.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Heck, Beth and Daryl were eating snake a couple episodes ago.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> She was definitely not broadcasting to speakers in the Terminus compound. What would be the point if that? To attract every walker within ten miles? Since the perimeter of Terminus was mysteriously free of walkers, and since we didn't hear the broadcast when Rick and Co. we're doing their piss poor recon job, we can be pretty sure that the lady was broadcasting over airwaves and not over local speakers.


Right - it was radio, as we heard a few episodes ago on the car radio. And no, it wouldn't make any sense to have those announcements inside the compound. But if they're broadcasting, that means they have electricity, a generator, and ample fuel. Maybe that's what they need people for -- to throw in the furnace to generate power.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Dnamertz said:


> For those who are hungry enough and willing to resort to canabalism, why not have a place like Terminus where you are safe from zombies and put up signs telling your lunch to come to you.


Along with clothing, guns, and lots of other supplies.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

betts4 said:


> Heck, Beth and Daryl were eating snake a couple episodes ago.


I think Beth just watched Daryl eat snake


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Hank said:


> Right - it was radio, as we heard a few episodes ago on the car radio. And no, it wouldn't make any sense to have those announcements inside the compound. But if they're broadcasting, that means they have electricity, a generator, and ample fuel. Maybe that's what they need people for -- to throw in the furnace to generate power.


Okay, okay, they are broadcasting to radios outside of the compound. I think we all get it now.  But why wouldn't they use walker corpses for fuel instead of perfectly healthy and fit human survivors who managed to make it this far? They could use anything else from the environment for fuel for a generator. How about solar panels?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Obviously they are using the live people for multiple purposes: food, decoration (see: bones captures), and soap (via human fat ala Fight Club -- how else do you explain how clean they seemed to be?)


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## NashvilleKat (Dec 25, 2013)

I bet the Terminus residents are disappointed the two girls didn't make it. They, along with Carl, are probably their equivalent of veal.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

NashvilleKat said:


> I bet the Terminus residents are disappointed the two girls didn't make it. They, along with Carl, are probably their equivalent of veal.


There's still hope for Judith


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## NashvilleKat (Dec 25, 2013)

Judith is going to require some fattening up.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

getreal said:


> They could use anything else from the environment for fuel for a generator. How about solar panels?


Solar panels would not be a smart choice to power a radio broadcast, since it would be smart to broadcast on the mid- and short-wave AM frequencies, which have a far longer range at night (skywave vs. groundwave). During the day you would need thousands of Watts for a range of a few hundred kilometers. Of course, these doofuses do seem to be broadcasting during the day, so who knows what they are doing.


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