# Plex seems improved now on series 5 units



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Playing around tonight with TiVo Plex client under Settings--Video I changed Max H.264 Level to 4.1 and enabled "Allow Direct Play" and "Allow Direct Stream" and I was able to direct play a 1080p H.261 4.1 video with 6 channel AC3 audio. No CPU activity for transcoding on Plex server and I confirmed on the Plex server itself under "Activity" it was direct playing the video. Stuttering I used to get previously attempting to play this video went away and play was very smooth. I think this is the 1st time I've been able to direct play this kind of video on my Roamio Pro with Plex client, so now I'm a little more impressed with Plex. I thought there used to be a 720p Plex client limit for series 5 didn't there?

After playing around some more, it now appears as though any video that can be natively played on a TiVo can be direct played via Plex client now. It certainly didn't used to be this way and this is much improved.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Well, not so fast. While direct play seems to work fine for H.264 videos, now when I try playing mpeg2 videos (decrypted TiVo downloads), Plex fails to play some of them. Using task manager I see PlexNewTranscoder.exe invoked and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't and Plex client gives an error. In some cases I got a lot of stuttering during playback.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

moyekj said:


> I thought there used to be a 720p Plex client limit for series 5 didn't there?


That was my understanding, yes, based on myriad complaints and specific references to PLEX developers saying there was a limitation. See the following comment from a PLEX support page...

*TiVo*
Series 4 and Series 5 (TiVo Premiere, Roamio, Mini, etc.)

Considerations:
These TiVo models currently only support video playback up to 4 Mbps, 720p quality. Content with higher bitrates or resolution will be automatically transcoded to be compatible.

(link)​
p.s. But don't get your hopes up when you read the following, from the same page...
Does Plex support 4K?
When possible. We currently support 4K on the TiVo Roamio & Bolt (Series 6) devices as well as VIZIO televisions.​


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

There was indeed a 720p limit. Seems the latest Plex for Tivo client just pushed out has managed to extend this on the Series 5 units. Nice to see as it should apply to mini as well.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

Any news on flac music files ?


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## crableg (Dec 17, 2015)

JTH - I am able to play FLACs with Plex on my Roamio OTA.


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## crableg (Dec 17, 2015)

moyekj - I haven't been able to get 5.1 sound through Plex. I have optical output going to an A/V receiver, but I only get stereo. Are you getting 5.1 sound as a result of the changes you detailed in your first post? Or did those changes affect 1080p video only? I don't have any 1080p video, so I am just interested in getting 5.1 sound. (I just got my Tivo Roamio so I am kind of fumbling my way through settings on it and in Plex).


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

crableg said:


> moyekj - I haven't been able to get 5.1 sound through Plex. I have optical output going to an A/V receiver, but I only get stereo. Are you getting 5.1 sound as a result of the changes you detailed in your first post? Or did those changes affect 1080p video only? I don't have any 1080p video, so I am just interested in getting 5.1 sound. (I just got my Tivo Roamio so I am kind of fumbling my way through settings on it and in Plex).


You have to turn on AC3 audio in the plex app on the tivo. Its not checked as a default.


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## crableg (Dec 17, 2015)

jcthorne - that fixed it - thanks!


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

crableg said:


> jcthorne - that fixed it - thanks!


 Are you able to stream HD mpeg2 files via Plex client without any problems? (for example decrypted HD recordings from TiVo).


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

moyekj said:


> Are you able to stream HD mpeg2 files via Plex client without any problems? (for example decrypted HD recordings from TiVo).


Have never tried. I do not store anything as mpeg2. I can try one though and let you know but I am not at the house to give the local tivo a close watch. Will try to do this and let you know.


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## crableg (Dec 17, 2015)

moyekj - I'm not that advanced 
I only stream mp4 and mkv from my computer to tivo via Plex.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Ok, placed HD mpeg2 video in Plex folders and refreshed so plex found it. Went to Bolt (via slingplayer access remotely) and started the video playing.

Plex server was transcoding it to h264 in real time and reported throttling, ie insufficient processor which is expected on my low power laptop. The video played but was not smooth. I do not know how (or if) I can tell plex server to send mpeg2 without transcoding. The video I was trying was a bit over 10mbps. The audio was direct streaming AC3.

The same video recoded to h264 in an mp4 file as I normally do played flawless without transcoding.

If I can try anything else for you, I'd be happy to.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

OK thanks. In my case I have a powerful Plex server but it still can't seem to transcode HD mpeg2 videos in real time to enable smooth playback. The built in TiVo Opera browser doesn't support mpeg2 video so they must be transcoded to H.264 to work.


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## pritch55 (Oct 8, 2005)

It looks like they indeed did update to 1080p but anything over 4 Mbps still requires transcoding. Pretty disappointing since most of my 1080p files are over 4 Mbps.

Thanks,
-Brandon


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

pritch55 said:


> It looks like they indeed did update to 1080p but anything over 4 Mbps still requires transcoding. Pretty disappointing since most of my 1080p files are over 4 Mbps.
> 
> Thanks,
> -Brandon


 That's not what I'm seeing. For example, this 1080p video streams natively for me using Plex client on a Roamio Pro (with client settings I outlined above plus AC3 enabled):

```
General 
Format : MPEG-4 
File size : 5.95 GiB 
Duration : 1h 43mn 
Overall bit rate : 8 195 Kbps 

Video 
ID : 1 
Format : AVC 
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec 
Format profile : [email protected] 
Format settings, CABAC : Yes 
Format settings, ReFrames : 3 frames 
Format settings, GOP : M=4, N=24 
Codec ID : avc1 
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding 
Duration : 1h 43mn 
Bit rate : 7 550 Kbps 
Nominal bit rate : 8 000 Kbps 
Width : 1 920 pixels 
Height : 1 080 pixels 
Display aspect ratio : 16:9 
Frame rate mode : Constant 
Frame rate : 23.976 fps 
Color space : YUV 
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 
Bit depth : 8 bits 
Scan type : Progressive 
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.152 
Stream size : 5.48 GiB (92%) 
Writing library : x264 core 80 r1376 3feaec2 
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x1:0 / me=umh / subme=9 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.0:0.0 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=0 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=2 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / mbaff=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=0 / b_adapt=0 / b_bias=0 / direct=2 / wpredb=0 / wpredp=0 / keyint=24 / keyint_min=13 / scenecut=0 / rc=abr / mbtree=0 / bitrate=8000 / ratetol=0.5 / qcomp=0.50 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=50 / qpstep=3 / ip_ratio=1.25 / pb_ratio=1.25 / aq=1:1.00 
Encoded date : UTC 1970-01-01 00:00:00 
Tagged date : UTC 1970-01-01 00:00:00 

Audio 
ID : 2 
Format : AC-3 
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3 
Mode extension : CM (complete main) 
Format settings, Endianness : Big 
Codec ID : ac-3 
Duration : 1h 43mn 
Bit rate mode : Constant 
Bit rate : 640 Kbps 
Channel(s) : 6 channels 
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE 
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz 
Bit depth : 16 bits 
Compression mode : Lossy 
Stream size : 476 MiB (8%) 
Encoded date : UTC 1970-01-01 00:00:00 
Tagged date : UTC 1970-01-01 00:00:00
```


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## pritch55 (Oct 8, 2005)

Here is the file I used and it needed to be transcoded.


```
General
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42
File size                                : 8.15 GiB
Duration                                 : 2h 22mn
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 8 206 Kbps
Writing application                      : HandBrake 0.10.0 2014112200

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 5 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 2h 22mn
Bit rate                                 : 6 522 Kbps
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 800 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 2.40:1
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 23.976 fps
Minimum frame rate                       : 23.974 fps
Maximum frame rate                       : 23.981 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.177
Stream size                              : 6.47 GiB (79%)
Writing library                          : x264 core 142 r2479 dd79a61
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:-1:-1 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=umh / subme=8 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.15 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-3 / threads=12 / lookahead_threads=2 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=240 / keyint_min=24 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=50 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=20.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=62500 / vbv_bufsize=78125 / crf_max=0.0 / nal_hrd=none / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
```


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Could the difference in the two files' transcoding behavior be the Format profile? ([email protected] High for the transcoded video pritch55 posted vs. [email protected] for the direct play video moyekj posted)


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

pritch55 said:


> Here is the file I used and it needed to be transcoded.
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


No audio?

The one thing I see that might be causing an issue is the number of reference frames. A lot of decoders can't handle more then 3-4, your file is using 5. That could trigger a recode if the TiVo decoder can't handle 5.

The resolution/aspect might also be an issue. 1920x800 with 2.40:1 aspect is non-standard. The TiVo might only support standard broadcast resolutions and aspects, which would be 1920x1080, 1440x1080, 1280x720, 720x480, 702x480 and 320x480 at either 4:3 or 16:9, maybe 2.21:1


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## pritch55 (Oct 8, 2005)

Sorry I removed the audio because it was able to direct play with no problems. I don't believe it is a reference frame or aspect ratio because the following file with play with no transcoding. I did notice the the frame rate was variable where the two that played is constant. I will try and encode it again with constant to see if that helps.


```
General
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : JVT
Codec ID                                 : avc1
File size                                : 3.77 GiB
Duration                                 : 2h 11mn
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 4 094 Kbps
Encoded date                             : UTC 2015-11-26 06:03:17
Tagged date                              : UTC 2015-11-26 06:03:17


Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 5 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 2h 11mn
Source duration                          : 2h 11mn
Bit rate                                 : 3 379 Kbps
Nominal bit rate                         : 3 550 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                         : 15.5 Mbps
Width                                    : 1 916 pixels
Height                                   : 800 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 2.40:1
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.092
Stream size                              : 3.11 GiB (83%)
Source stream size                       : 3.27 GiB (87%)
Writing library                          : x264 core 146 r2538 121396c
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:-1:-1 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=30 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=2 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=0 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=12 / lookahead_threads=3 / sliced_threads=0 / slices=4 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=5 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=240 / keyint_min=23 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=50 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=3550 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=1 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=62500 / vbv_bufsize=78125 / nal_hrd=none / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Encoded date                             : UTC 2015-11-26 06:03:17
Tagged date                              : UTC 2015-11-26 06:05:3
```


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

I suspect the variable frame rate (Handbrake is notoriously bad at that but I believe you can change settings to make it produce constant frame rate) may be the issue. The 2nd one you posted has a constant frame rate, as does mine.


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## pritch55 (Oct 8, 2005)

So it loos like it's not possible to have a constant frame rate with handbrake. Here is an explanation I found on Videohelp.

"It's because of the timescale HandBrake uses. 23.976 is 24000/1001 fps rounded so for exact constant frame rate storing a muxer would have to use 24000 as a base for timings and then just stamps by 1001 for each frame. But HandBrake always uses 90000 for the timebase which means you cannot exactly represent 24000/1001 fps. You end up having to alternate between 3753 and for 3754 for the timestamp so you end up with a minimum and maximum of 90000/3753 ~= 23,981 and 90000/3754 ~= 23,974 fps, the average being ~23.976 fps."

I guess I'll continue to use my Roku for my PLEX viewing.

Thanks,
-Brandon


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Or use ffmpeg for encoding which doesn't suffer from that problem.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

That tiny variable frame rate is nothing and should not cause an issue. It's only showing as variable because of the way Media Info determines variable frame rate. It's not really variable. If it were really variable the min/max would have a much wider margin. (at least a few frames, probably more)

Edit: I'm still betting on the resolution or maybe the encoding causing the issue.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

pritch55 said:


> Here is the file I used and it needed to be transcoded.
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


Did you raise your max allowed h.264 settings to High a level 4.1 in Plex? It defaults to lower than that despite Tivo's ability to handle it.


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## pritch55 (Oct 8, 2005)

I did raise the max allowed h.264 settings to High a level 4.1.


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## jamesteixeira (Nov 22, 2014)

The Plex for TiVo app for Roamio Basic and plus will now play (direct play) NFL Gamepass archived games. The mini's will not.

But, now the Hockeystreams On-Demand games will not play using direct play on the Roamio. A couple of weeks ago they did and Gamepass did not.

I don't understand what they did but they did something.


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## jamesteixeira (Nov 22, 2014)

Now another new TIVO Plex client 2.5.1. Hockeystreams on-demand works with Direct Play again. I haven't tried Hockeystreams live streaming yet.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

So how much overhead does Plex take to run? We don't really have a lot of media stored but I do use pyTivo on our older WHS v1 server (HP EX485) and thought I'd "play" with it since we now have a Roamio Pro.

Scott


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## jamesteixeira (Nov 22, 2014)

I must have been dreaming. Checked again to today and TIVO is back to version 2.4.41. The Vizio app, which was briefly 2.5.1, went back to 2.4.36. I don't understand why.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

jamesteixeira said:


> I must have been dreaming. Checked again to today and TIVO is back to version 2.4.41. The Vizio app, which was briefly 2.5.1, went back to 2.4.36. I don't understand why.


Plex pulled 2.5.1 because it was causing lots of connectivity issues and they did not want folks disabled through the holidays so they rolled it back....something Tivo should have considered....


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

jamesteixeira said:


> I must have been dreaming. Checked again to today and TIVO is back to version 2.4.41. The Vizio app, which was briefly 2.5.1, went back to 2.4.36. I don't understand why.


Nah, I'm pretty sure Plex on my Roamio was up to 2.5.1 when I last used it a couple days ago. I'm traveling for Christmas now, so can't check if it's reverted. The last couple updates I've had in Dec have produced some slightly buggy behavior, like graphical weirdness in the background while playing music. Had the app suddenly quit a couple times too.


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