# Bolt Drive for Upgrade



## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

I am considering upgrading my Bolt internal drive to a larger one (probably 3tb or 4tb). Just curious if there is a preferred drive that people like in terms of reliability/cost.

Thanks!


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

The normal 3.5" drives barely fit inside the Bolt's case, but it can be used. Up to 3TB can be swapped into it without much PC intervention.

Usually, WD green AV works well or Red drives work best.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

ThAbtO said:


> The normal 3.5" drives barely fit inside the Bolt's case, but it can be used. Up to 3TB can be swapped into it without much PC intervention.
> 
> Usually, WD green AV works well or Red drives work best.


3.5" drives DO NOT fit in a Bolt. Currently the largest available reliable 2.5" drives are the 2TB units. The many folks that went for the Seagate 4TB drives have them failing right and left. There are no AV or Red drives larger than 1TB at the moment.

I am using a Samsung 2TB successfully as are many others but its not AV rated.

It would be nice to know what Tivo is using in the new Bolt+


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## NJ Webel (Dec 8, 2004)

ThAbtO said:


> The normal 3.5" drives barely fit inside the Bolt's case, but it can be used. Up to 3TB can be swapped into it without much PC intervention.
> 
> Usually, WD green AV works well or Red drives work best.


Up to 3TB can be swapped into it without _any_ PC intervention. You can drop it right in.

I dropped in a 3TB Toshiba MQ03ABB300 and have had no issues.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

NJ Webel said:


> Up to 3TB can be swapped into it without _any_ PC intervention. You can drop it right in.
> 
> I dropped in a 3TB Toshiba MQ03ABB300 and have had no issues.


And with a 4TB drive it was just a matter of connecting the drive to a PC for a few minutes and putting it back in the Bolt. My two 4TB drives are still working perfectly fine in my two Bolts.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> And with a 4TB drive it was just a matter of connecting the drive to a PC for a few minutes and putting it back in the Bolt. My two 4TB drives are still working perfectly fine in my two Bolts.


What drives are you using? Thanks in advance.


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## OmeneX (Jul 2, 2016)

To cut in here, help out and cut a straight line - aaronwt uses an opened up Seagate STDR4000100 : https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Portable-External-Storage-STDR4000100/dp/B00ZTRXFBA

Here's a link where that drive is talked about: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=532579

Here's a link where people talk about external 3.5 Drives : http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=542550

Here's a link with a 3.5 Modification to the Bolt's chasis : http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=540001

There are other threads floating around with more talk on HDDs and the like. Be aware that there is a full thread on the Seagate STDR4000100 having failures for some people. Though - there are other's who haven't had issues. (Or more likely reported their success) If I had to make a read we've heard more reports of it failing then positive ones, but that's the nature of the Internet. Where complaints rule the roost.

I have no skin in the game - I use a 2TB internal drive.

Cheers.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Sweet!! I was going to look for the 3.5" drive installation instructions. This saves me the time of looking. THANKS!!!

I'm 95% sure I won't get the Bolt+ now. And will go back to using my Roamio Pro. But since my current Bolt subscriptions don't expire until Thanksgiving and New years, I have time to wait. So if there is a great sale on lifetime and the Bolt+, I still might bite.


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## OmeneX (Jul 2, 2016)

I'm in the same boat. Currently not buying a Bolt+ -- but once my free service is up, I may consider a purchase if a good deal comes around / and there isn't any further announcements of TiVo system releases, besides the Mantis.  I know I'll be getting the refreshed Mini 4k for sure - whenever that is.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

A SSD drive is a 2.5" form, possible drive for Bolt?


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## OmeneX (Jul 2, 2016)

ThAbtO said:


> A SSD drive is a 2.5" form, possible drive for Bolt?


Possible? Certainly!

Recommended? Up for debate.

Here's a link to a discussion about using SSDs in the TiVo Bolt - including some *maths* on SSD longevity. Remember TiVo does a whole lot of writes 24/7. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=539933

BTW: Here's a link to a test on SSD writes till they die. It's slightly dated so I can't vouche completly for modern accuracy - 2015 but a good read anyways. http://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead 4 SSD drives in that mix that people still use. I know I do at work / home / etc.

Know that the software portion of the Bolt is stored in Flash memory - which of course is plenty fast. The recordings are on the spinning disks. You may see some overall responsiveness increases nevertheless. I can't speak from personal experience. Since I want more HDD space, I'll stick with lower cost HDDs - and currently a 4TB SSD comes in at 1400$. No thanks. But if I *could* get a big sized SSD for low price, I probably would go for it. I'm not that adverse to losing recordings at some point in the future. || If I really like something I usually buy it someway/somehow and put in on my Plex.


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## ParityBit (Jul 16, 2016)

I had a Samsung 2TB and it failed bad. I am running with the normal 500GB since I know it is AV rated. I would love to upgrade at some point, but I am gun shy.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

I think more than a few of us are waiting to see what Tivo is using in the Bolt+


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> I'm 95% sure I won't get the Bolt+ now. And will go back to using my Roamio Pro. But since my current Bolt subscriptions don't expire until Thanksgiving and New years, I have time to wait. So if there is a great sale on lifetime and the Bolt+, I still might bite.


Believe it or not, my technically challenged better half has some issues with having to switch devices to locate some recordings. As a result, I found a buyer who wanted both my Bolts (2TB and 500GB, 2 and 10 months of free service left, respectively) and ordered a *+* this morning.

I actually preferred having two Bolts for a variety of reasons, but 6 tuners will be enough for us. I'll also save the cost of another Lifetime or $150/year by downsizing my set-up. Most importantly, the Mrs. will be happy.


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## Sixto (Sep 16, 2005)

and u get one less cable card fee too!


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

Sixto said:


> and u get one less cable card fee too!


:up:

I always forget about that fee, because Cablevision only charges $2/month per card. Pretty reasonable, IMHO.


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## Sixto (Sep 16, 2005)

Steve said:


> :up:
> 
> I always forget about that fee, because Cablevision only charges $2/month per card. Pretty reasonable, IMHO.


Yeah, FiOS is $4.99/mo per card.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

jcthorne said:


> I think more than a few of us are waiting to see what Tivo is using in the Bolt+


I'm happy with my Roamios, but me too. Sometimes WD sells drives to manufacturers that they don't list officially. If there's a 2.5" 3TB drive that can withstand to pounding a TiVo gives it, curious minds want to know.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

Am I correct in drawing the inference that there isn't really anything above 2TB that people have found to be generally reliable? For the people using 2TB Samsung drives, what model are you using?


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

See message #4 above.


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## JCN (Feb 4, 2016)

Finally completed the Hd upgrade. WD 6TB RED installed in the ARMER RX304-APU3-35B. Ran the MFS Reformatter thanks to ggieseke and the crew. Payment being sent.

Looks like this:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=25741&d=1466361392

MFS Reformatter says:
5589.03 GB WDC WD60 EFRX-60L0BN1 found.
5586.22 GB is allocated for recordings.

My Tivo says:
Recording Capacity: Variable, up to 961 HD
Free Disk Space: Variable, up to 964 HD

Everything running well. I want to verify the disk size in the Tivo as it sees it. The kmttg doesn't list the hard drive size like it does with my other Bolt. It shows the pie chart with the the usage but in the total disk space line it just shows and matches whats in use. I thought I read in a post that some one had the the right HD recording space but when it got to a certain capacity it was filling up as a lower TB drive. That's why I wanted it verified. I don't want to load it up and have to redo the process if I can help it. Absolutely loving this and will be upgrading the other bolt to 8TB in the near future.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

Go to the Remote > Info tab and click the Refresh button. That will update the actual disk space.


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## JCN (Feb 4, 2016)

ggieseke said:


> Go to the Remote > Info tab and click the Refresh button. That will update the actual disk space.


Thanks for getting back to me. I did not have any success. Also I changed the name of one of the Bolts a little bit back and it keeps the old name.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

JCN said:


> Thanks for getting back to me. I did not have any success. Also I changed the name of one of the Bolts a little bit back and it keeps the old name.


Force daily calls starting with the re-named unit. Let it sit for about an hour for the TiVo server farm to catch up then reboot everything. Repeat as necessary until every TiVo sees the others by their correct name. That helps them "swap spit" as far as the certificates needed to transfer files as well.

I set one of my Roamios to zero in the kmttg disk space tab this morning, then did the Info refresh and it picked up the correct size.

I promise that if it says 961 hours on the SI screen it's seeing the full capacity for a 6TB drive, but confirmation is always good.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

If everything is working properly there should not be any need for multiple connections and definitely no need to reboot. Typically I only need to make one connection for each device, except of course the TiVo with the new hard drive since it takes more connections to fully populate the guide data. And with everything working properly things show up within an hour at most for me. Although usually it's just minutes. 

The issue now though is with tons of people making manual connections for some reason with the Rovi data change. Which does not help peoples chances of making a connection to Tivo when they are flooded with people trying to manually have their TiVos connect.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Steve said:


> :up: I always forget about that fee, because Cablevision only charges $2/month per card. Pretty reasonable, IMHO.





Sixto said:


> Yeah, FiOS is $4.99/mo per card.


I pay 46 cents per Cablecard with Oceanic Time Warner. I have 2 so it's a whopping 92 cents! 

BTW, I now have my 2TB Samsung 2.5" HDD that I was using in my old Bolt if anyone's interested? I had no issues whatsoever while it was in there. I have since upgraded to a Bolt+ which is why it's available.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> I pay 46 cents per Cablecard with Oceanic Time Warner. I have 2 so it's a whopping 92 cents!


Dang. I'm getting ripped-off!


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## tivobw (Oct 26, 2002)

fyodor said:


> I am considering upgrading my Bolt internal drive to a larger one (probably 3tb or 4tb). Just curious if there is a preferred drive that people like in terms of reliability/cost.
> 
> Thanks!


Hi *fyodor*! Welcome to the adventure.. it's a fun game but fraught with peril. Be certain of the drive you use, as if it fails, all your recordings will likely be lost.

Back in January I upgraded my 500GB Tivo to a 4TB SuperTivo using the Seagate STDR4000100. It seemed to work fine at first but then I kept seeing lockups and freezes.. to fix this you would just have to reboot the tivo, but then 8 months later (about a couple of weeks ago), I tried rebooting it for 20 straight minutes, many times, and I would get the flashing lights on the front of the Tivo, basically advising that the Tivo couldn't find the drive/there was an issue with the drive.

Once that happened I popped in the original Tivo drive and the Tivo booted right up. I then had to call Comcast and have them update the cable card pairing, as each new Hard Drive is a new "device ID" and the pairing has to be fixed. So the fact that this original drive works tells me the Seagate wasn't happy... My wife continued to use this Tivo for a couple of days, recording some shows and so on.

BTW - *aaronwt *is one of the few folks who has had a solid experience (no issues) with the Seagate STDR4000100. But the majority of folks have had issues with this drive (who knows why - bad batch, firmware version lameness, etc.). Whatever the reasons, I've decided the Seagates are not suited for the Tivo and will forever avoid them in the future.

After reviewing all the very informative posts, and discovering there is no apparent reliable 4TB 2.5" option out there (none seems to exist yet - just the Seagate I already tried...), I decided to try a sector-by-sector copy from the Seagate to a new 3.5" 4TB drive. I decided on the 3.5", 4TB WD RED. I chose this drive as it is rated for 24x7 use for NAS systems, so should be good for DVR use, and several folks have used them without issues. Following Ross Walker's guide to fixing a broken Tivo, I tried a sector-by-sector copy using a Linux boot drive (usb thumb drive) and ddrescue. After about 14 hours of waiting, the copy finished with 8277kb/18 errors.

I then connected the WD RED drive to my Tivo using the same components as outlined in this thread by *mark1958* (nice work Mark!): http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=540001. Upon first bootup, the Tivo went to the splash screen, then rebooted again to the splash screen. The Tivo booted up but when I went to "My Recordings," there was nothing there. My recordings were gone. I tried the kickstart 57 trick but after the green recovery screen and several minutes later, Tivo booted up with no recordings.

So, my recordings are gone. I have no idea where they went.. did the original Seagate have corruption in the recording area of the drive table? I have no idea. Alas, the ddrescue trick didn't work for me, and all the recordings are lost.

I had to go on a business trip so I popped the original Tivo hard drive back in. Recall that my wife had been using the Tivo with the original hard drive for a few days before I had the chance to put the WD RED drive in, and had recorded some shows on it. Well, surprise.. same damn thing happened as when I booted up the WD RED: Went to Tivo boot screen, then rebooted again and 2nd time at Tivo boot screen it finally went to the Tivo main screen. I checked recordings... *AND THEY WERE ALL GONE*! What the heck? Did Tivo release some sort of firmware update, including a feature to wipe the hard drive every time a new one is connected? I have no idea what happened here. Very, very frustrating.

Went on a business trip and now that I'm back, need to plan a time to replace the original Tivo HD with the WD RED 4TB in the enclosure. I wanted to plan this work to occur while I'm in town, in case the tivo craps out...

In the old days you could disconnect a Tivo hard drive, do a sector-by-sector copy to another drive (and then have a backup), then pop the original back in the Tivo and continue using it. Now, it looks like that option is out the window. It seems if you disconnect a hard drive and connect another, Tivo formats it like a new drive. NOT cool.

Anyway, long story short, I plan to connect the WD RED 3.5" 4TB drive soon using an external enclosure, so that I have a 4TB Tivo again. At least the sector-by-sector copy preserved the data format and the Tivo sees all the free space (shows up as 639 HD recording hours). Hopefully this one is more reliable than the Segate 2.5" 4TB. I am really sad about losing the integrated design - loved having the 2.5" drive self-contained within the Tivo - but it's simply not worth the hassle and flakiness (not to mention eventual failure!).

Has anyone else had this experience, where the Tivo initializes the hard drive every time a new one is connected? Is my Tivo possessed? Am I doing something wrong? Ugh!


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## JCN (Feb 4, 2016)

ggieseke said:


> Force daily calls starting with the re-named unit. Let it sit for about an hour for the TiVo server farm to catch up then reboot everything. Repeat as necessary until every TiVo sees the others by their correct name. That helps them "swap spit" as far as the certificates needed to transfer files as well.
> 
> I set one of my Roamios to zero in the kmttg disk space tab this morning, then did the Info refresh and it picked up the correct size.
> 
> I promise that if it says 961 hours on the SI screen it's seeing the full capacity for a 6TB drive, but confirmation is always good.


I certainly believe it if you say it. Good to know that's a valid confirmation. I will try the things you recommend. Thanks.


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## JCN (Feb 4, 2016)

aaronwt said:


> If everything is working properly there should not be any need for multiple connections and definitely no need to reboot. Typically I only need to make one connection for each device, except of course the TiVo with the new hard drive since it takes more connections to fully populate the guide data. And with everything working properly things show up within an hour at most for me. Although usually it's just minutes.
> 
> The issue now though is with tons of people making manual connections for some reason with the Rovi data change. Which does not help peoples chances of making a connection to Tivo when they are flooded with people trying to manually have their TiVos connect.


Thanks, I will give things a little time.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

Hmm. Thanks for all the feedback. It sounds like I might need to go with a 2tb drive. There's just not any way I can sell the spouse on carving a hole in the tivo.


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

fyodor said:


> I am considering upgrading my Bolt internal drive to a larger one (probably 3tb or 4tb). Just curious if there is a preferred drive that people like in terms of reliability/cost.
> 
> Thanks!


Do NOT, I repeat, do NOT purchase a Seagate STDR4000100. It seems as if this drive USE TO work fine, under its original firmware, but it has since been upgraded. I have literally read only one case where this drive actually works, and that's from aaronwt. I have the drive, I'm on firmware 004, it bombs out, and aaronwt apparently has the 001 firmware and it works fine. I could not see how to downgrade the firmware, so I actually ended up just buying a Bolt+ earlier yesterday, it'll come next week, I think. I'll probably lose a few months of free service, but I'm still going to purchase Lifetime service.

One user has reported purchasing a WD Red 8TB HDD, which is 3.5". It does not fit in the case, so, he plugged in a different cable and made his own hole. I think other user decided not to do the exact same thing and just left part of the case open and left it plugged in. Check out this thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=540001

Here's my thread where I'd reported the 4 lights flashing on my Bolt, because I was trying to use the Seagate drive I'd mentioned. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=540551

Don't even try using the Seagate drive, it just won't work.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

OK, so that's another recommendation for the STDR4000100. I am ordering it from Amazon now. I'll let everyone know how it works once it's installed.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

fyodor said:


> OK, so that's another recommendation for the STDR4000100. I am ordering it from Amazon now. I'll let everyone know how it works once it's installed.


You are joking right? I know that I have yet to have any issues with my two 4TB Seagates in my Bolts. But mine also seem to be from the first batch manufactured.

But if I were to start from scratch right now, I would be leary about using the 4TB Seagate. Because of all the issues that people have been reporting.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)




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## JCN (Feb 4, 2016)

fyodor said:


> Am I correct in drawing the inference that there isn't really anything above 2TB that people have found to be generally reliable? For the people using 2TB Samsung drives, what model are you using?


Meaning internal or external?


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

either, I guess. Whichever people have been using and had success with.


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## JCN (Feb 4, 2016)

fyodor said:


> either, I guess. Whichever people have been using and had success with.


I have been using WD 6TB Red without any problems at all. I don't believe there are any problems with any of the WD reds using MFS Reformatter thanks to ggieseke and crew. 960 hours of HD recording, loving that. Ggieseke's software was fast and simple. Hell even I could do it.


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## OmeneX (Jul 2, 2016)

fyodor said:


> either, I guess. Whichever people have been using and had success with.


I currently use - Seagate | ST2000LM007 | 2TB | 2.5 Internal | Feb 2016 Release Date (Slightly improved over previous model)

*Storage Review on the - ST2000LM007 *

http://www.storagereview.com/seagate_mobile_hdd_review

BTW - I've never been a big fan of Seagate drives in general, but so far this 2TB has been fine.


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## tivobw (Oct 26, 2002)

tivobw said:


> [...]Anyway, long story short, I plan to connect the WD RED 3.5" 4TB drive soon using an external enclosure, so that I have a 4TB Tivo again. At least the sector-by-sector copy preserved the data format and the Tivo sees all the free space (shows up as 639 HD recording hours). Hopefully this one is more reliable than the Segate 2.5" 4TB. I am really sad about losing the integrated design - loved having the 2.5" drive self-contained within the Tivo - but it's simply not worth the hassle and flakiness (not to mention eventual failure!).


Hi again. I had previously tried to rescue data from the old Seagate 4TB after it failed (will never buy another Seagate Hard drive... *EVER*) using ddrescue, but further analysis of the drive in MFSTools showed the boot sector (and perhaps some partitions as well) were in a bad state. It's possible I could have tried to repair the boot sector/partitions, but I would have had concerns that some of the recordings could have been ruined, or that the drive filesystem integrity wasn't 100%. So I decided to just start over from scratch.

I'm happy to say that I finished my Tivo Bolt upgrade. To summarize, purchased these materials:

90 degree connection SATA to eSATA cable - http://www.addonics.com/products/aasa90l6i-e.php
Rosewill Armer RX304-APU3-35B external HD enclosure - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182316
WD Red 4TB NAS 24x7 3.5" hard drive - https://www.amazon.com/Red-4TB-Hard-Disk-Drive/dp/B00EHBERSE
I prepared my WD Red 4TB hard drive in Windows:

Downloaded and installed Western Digital Data Lifeguard - http://downloads.wdc.com/windlg/WinDlg_v1_29.zip
Hooked up the WD Red 4TB; formatted it in Windows (as I had tried to use ddrescue before to sector-by-sector copy content from another Tivo drive, which failed to preserve recordings)
Ran the WRITE ZEROES (quick erase) feature
Completed an EXTENDED TEST - no errors were found (this took about 8 hours to finish)
I extended the Tivo drive to use all 4TB (as only 3TB would normally be used by the Tivo):

Followed the main steps from *Ross Walker's* Tivo Upgrade Guide for the Tivo Bolt, connecting the WD Red HD using the external enclosure & the SATA->eSATA cable I had purchased - http://www.rosswalker.co.uk/tivo_upgrade/#BOLT
Used MFS Reformatter by *ggieseke* to prepare hard drive for Tivo, to use all 4TB of space - http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=528428&page=1. 
I then placed the WD RED hard drive back in its external enclosure and connected it very similarly to the following steps outlined by *mark1958 *in his post: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=540001. I powered on the Tivo and went through Guided setup.

After doing that, I had to run the Tivo command to clear & delete everything, because even after Xfinity re-paired my cable card (which gave me my channels), Xfinity On Demand would not work (gave a *%lm-2 *error - here's info on it from Xfinity forums, but not related to my issue - https://forums.xfinity.com/t5/On-Demand/error-code-on-tivo-error-lm-2/td-p/2532916). That's strange, since Amazon, Netflix, etc. worked. They kept re-sending signals but nothing worked. They tried to send me another cablecard but I figured out after running C&DE that it fixed Xfinity On Demand. All the other apps work fine too.

OK, then after a couple of days of looking at the Tivo with its case partially popped off, I needed to figure out how to route the cable neatly out of the box, so I could fully fasten the case. I considered using Lexan scissors to try to make an opening like *bpunc* did - http://www.erebos.net/2015/10/tivo-bolt-hard-disk-upgrade-and-take-apart/. However, my wife convinced me to just drill holes in the back of the case.

I was a bit nervous about doing this as I just have regular drill bits, and they didn't really get "bite" on the ABS plastic. The drill bit kept wobbling and jumping. I had to do this drilling slowly and carefully, to make sure a wayward drilling motion didn't crack the case. I proceeded to drill a number of holes close together until the opening was big enough. After about 40 minutes, I had finally drilled a big enough opening for the cable! It looks a bit dirty & messy, but it's on the back side of the case, so no one will ever see it...  Final steps:

Routed the SATA portion of the cable through the outside hole drilled into the case
Connected the SATA connector to the SATA connector on the Tivo system board
Replaced the case and fastened it securely
Connected the eSATA cable to the eSATA connector outside the Tivo box; the other end of the eSATA cable connects to the Rosewill external hard drive enclosure
Thanks to *Ross Walker* for his Tivo upgrade guide, *ggieseke* for MFSR, and *bpunc* and *mark1958* for their external hard drive enclosure tips!

I now have a 4TB FrankenTivo with 639 hours of HD recording space.  I feel confident this drive will last a long time, as it's from Western Digital (I've had great luck with their drives in my Tivos in the past), and I fully tested it first to ensure it had no bad sectors.

Image of FrankenTivo below! It's ugly!


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Why are you guys drilling into the main chassis instead of the smaller removable/replaceable smaller piece?


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## tivobw (Oct 26, 2002)

foghorn2 said:


> Why are you guys drilling into the main chassis instead of the smaller removable/replaceable smaller piece?


The smaller piece is next to the fan...

So I my case, due to cable length, I didn't want to drape the cable over the Tivo's fan. If anything touches the fan blades, the fan stops spinning and could be broken. The main plastic piece seems like it would be less prone to cracking or breaking, too.

The main chassis case cover pops off too, for easy drilling. Just in case that wasn't obvious...

Those were my reasons!


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