# Comcast Motorola DVR w/Tivo By June 2006 . . .



## SpankyInChicago

I was in this past weekend talking with the custom install manager at Abt Electronics and he stated that, according to his Comcast rep, Comcast (Chicago area) will be offering their Motorola DVR platform with the Tivo software by June. The regular DVR price will be $4.99 per month and the Tivo DVR price will be $14.99 per month. This is per box.

I have no reason to believe the custom install manager to be misinformed, and those familiar with Abt (either locally or over the Internet) know how huge they are. I wouldn't imagine the Comcast rep telling Abt info that was inaccurate.

Take it with the rest of the rumors you hear.


----------



## ebonovic

ABT is about as big as you can get in the Chicago Area...

Comcast would certainly be on the up and up with them....

It would be intresting to see... Wonder what harware version of TiVo would it be based on, S2, S2.5, or S3


----------



## NatasNJ

$10 extra to use TIVO software? If that is the case it is insane!!!!


----------



## Sevenfeet

Anything to get this crappy TV Guide software off the box. And I do mean anything...


----------



## RMSko

NatasNJ said:


> $10 extra to use TIVO software? If that is the case it is insane!!!!


I couldn't agree more! I'm a loyal TiVo customer and in fact bought one of the first TiVos that came out in 1999, however, I would not pay an extra $10 for the TiVo software. I will consider buying the TiVo Series 3 though b/c I already own two standalone units with lifetime service and that would only cost me $6.95/month (although admittedly there will be a significant upfront cost).


----------



## QZ1

SpankyInChicago said:


> I was in this past weekend talking with the custom install manager at Abt Electronics and he stated that, according to his Comcast rep, Comcast (Chicago area) will be offering their Motorola DVR platform with the Tivo software by June. The regular DVR price will be $4.99 per month and the Tivo DVR price will be $14.99 per month. This is per box.


What? They are decreasing the price of a DVR from $10 to $5. Is that correct or a typo? 

Comcast reducing prices? That much.  I don't believe it. 

Although, I think STBs are regulated, and they do decrease, usually not that much. But, Comcast can get around that, by saying part of the DVR fee is for DVR 'service'. 

I saw a price list from another system in my home state of PA, and they are already listing the Tivo-enabled DVR at $15, like you said; but the generic DVR is still $10. (These prices are to upgrade the included Digital STB to a DVR.) So, it is a $5 difference.


----------



## AbMagFab

Does anyone really think Comcast will be any better than DirecTV? And this is a different hardware platform.

Won't this just be another crippled, buggy DVR, but with Tivo on it?

I only trust Tivo to give me real Tivo software at this point. Series 3 is the way to go.


----------



## JPShinn

Any sense of whether this will be offered as an upgrade to those who already have (or are about to acquire prior to June) a Comcast DVR box?

Thx.
John


----------



## String

SpankyInChicago said:


> The regular DVR price will be $4.99 per month and the Tivo DVR price will be $14.99 per month. This is per box.
> Take it with the rest of the rumors you hear.


I think you are better off getting netflix and renting the season on DVD when it comes out.


----------



## Adam1115

NatasNJ said:


> $10 extra to use TIVO software? If that is the case it is insane!!!!


If it has ALL of the features of a SA TiVo, why would it be insane? TiVo is now $14.99 a month for a 3 year contract. For the same price you get it integrated with your cable system and dual tuners, seems reasonable to me.

$10 more for-
Tivo to Go
Online Scheduling 
MRV
HMO
HME Apps
Rock solid software

I would gladely pay it..

Why are you guys in the TiVo forum if you don't think it's worth $10 a month..?


----------



## SpankyInChicago

JPShinn said:


> Any sense of whether this will be offered as an upgrade to those who already have (or are about to acquire prior to June) a Comcast DVR box?
> 
> Thx.
> John


Yes, the Motorola DVR can be upgraded once installed.


----------



## SpankyInChicago

QZ1 said:


> What? They are decreasing the price of a DVR from $10 to $5. Is that correct or a typo?
> 
> Comcast reducing prices? That much.  I don't believe it.
> 
> Although, I think STBs are regulated, and they do decrease, usually not that much. But, Comcast can get around that, by saying part of the DVR fee is for DVR 'service'.
> 
> I saw a price list from another system in my home state of PA, and they are already listing the Tivo-enabled DVR at $15, like you said; but the generic DVR is still $10. (These prices are to upgrade the included Digital STB to a DVR.) So, it is a $5 difference.


I asked that. He said "Tivo will be $10 more than the regular DVR." So I asked "Tivo is going to be $20?" And he said "No. They are dropping the price on the standard DVR by $5."

So, $9.99 - $5.00 + $10.00 = $14.99. Unless I misunderstood him.


----------



## SullyND

Adam1115 said:


> $10 more for-
> Tivo to Go
> Online Scheduling
> MRV
> HMO
> HME Apps
> Rock solid software


$10 sounds like a deal to me, if it's got all the SA features AND is reliable... It's not on TiVo hardware, so I wonder how buggy it may be at first...


----------



## zalusky

Right now I am on Direct TV and have 4 tivo boxes. Two of which I dont use much - one by the treadmill and one by the computer.

This would mean $60/month vs the $20 or so on DirecTV for the DVR and mirror costs.

Now If I have to purchase the comcast box for say $800 and pay the $14.99/month, it will never even out. If I am just paying the $14.99 and get the unit then I could probably go a few years before it balances out.

Ideally I would prefer networking with dumb clients and an expandable server which DirecTV is talking about towards the end of the year. That has to be a cheaper model especially for the little used TVs in a house.

I am waiting for a spreadsheet comparing all the pricing combinations.


----------



## miss_my_utv

Adam1115 said:


> If it has ALL of the features of a SA TiVo, why would it be insane? TiVo is now $14.99 a month for a 3 year contract. For the same price you get it integrated with your cable system and dual tuners, seems reasonable to me.
> 
> $10 more for-
> Tivo to Go
> Online Scheduling
> MRV
> HMO
> HME Apps
> Rock solid software
> 
> I would gladely pay it..
> 
> Why are you guys in the TiVo forum if you don't think it's worth $10 a month..?


Not trying to post for the person you originally replied to, but...

...there are some folks, like me, who are on the list because we have an HDTivo, because it was the best (or only) choice available from our provider, and we find the forum useful to exchange information about them. I've gotten much useful information from the Tivo experts, and really appreciate it!

I recognize that for many of you, Tivo is by far the best DVR, providing features you hate to do without. My needs (& priorities) are different. Of the features you listed, "rock solid software" (which is a very relative term), is the only "essential" (well, that and 30 sec skip!).

So, if Comcast's programming in my area ever gets closer to DTV for meeting my specific needs, and I went that route, I'd certainly consider $10/mo a pretty steep premium for the Tivo (based upon what I've heard about the existing Comcast HD-DVR).

Hopefully for Tivo's sake (and all of you "Tivoholics"), I'm the exception and they actually can build a sustainable business (& I know several people who work there, so I hope they can!).

Again, not trying to imply anyone is right or wrong, just trying to answer the "...why are you in a Tivo forum?" question from my perspective.


----------



## TR7spyder

I have just switched to Comcast/DVR from D*/Tivo. CS rep told me that Tivo software might become available as early as April, but it wasnt definitive.

Having lived with Comcast DVR for the last 3 weeks I must agree with everything that I have heard before: Tivo is much better. BUT, to me, it is NOT $10/month better! If they are going to stick to this price structure, I am going to wait for the next best thing from Direct TV, which should be out with-in a year.


----------



## Cabrill

I also just switched to Comcast. With the only HDTivo left on D*'s service being non-MP4 compliant, and no chance of there being another TiVo unit for D* in the foreseeable future it was a no brainer. Not only that but I'm paying less now for internet and TV service combined than I used to be paying for just internet, and will be paying that low price for the next 12 months, plus the free HBO, and On-Demand. The D* people didn't even offer me any alternatives when I told them I was cancelling becasue I wanted a HDTiVo that wouldn't be obsolete in under a year that I'd have to drop $400~ on upfront. Now I just have to wait patiently for TiVo software to be offered on my Comcast DVR because I can't stand not having overlapping wishlist/season passes so that I can set new shows to be "Keep Until I Delete" and reruns to "Delete When Space Needed." Not to mention the suggestions, showcases, and improved GUI.


----------



## RARamaker

$15 a month sounds OK to me except for one thing - the Motorolla box comes with a 160GB drive. That's about 15 hours of HDTV - not enough for me. My TiVo has a 100 hour capacity and I would think I would need 50 hours of HDTV and 50 hours of SDTV to make it work for me. That is probably a 600 GB hard drive. 

So, can the Motorolla DVR be upgraded? I didn't think so.  

Russ


----------



## bpratt

> $15 a month sounds OK to me except for one thing - the Motorolla box comes with a 160GB drive. That's about 15 hours of HDTV - not enough for me. My TiVo has a 100 hour capacity and I would think I would need 50 hours of HDTV and 50 hours of SDTV to make it work for me. That is probably a 600 GB hard drive.


Did anyone indicate the Motorolla TiVo from Comcast would record HD?


----------



## dt_dc

RARamaker said:


> So, can the Motorolla DVR be upgraded? I didn't think so.


Motorola is now releasing boxes with an external SATA port for adding an additional hard drive. No one has released software to take advantage of it yet ... but the capability is there in the hardware should Tivo care to take advantage of it.


----------



## SullyND

bpratt said:


> Did anyone indicate the Motorolla TiVo from Comcast would record HD?


Yes.

TivoPony even posted as much. It's an upgrade to the Moto 6412, which is Comcast's HD box.


----------



## Maxnl

They are just going to update the software on their current DVR box, which already records HD and has dual tuners.
Also, if I'm not mistaken, it also has USB and Firewire in addition to an ethernet jack.
They can update the software and guide over the cable line so I would figure it would be easy to just request the Tivo software and have them send it with the guide update.


----------



## bigpuma

Adam1115 said:


> If it has ALL of the features of a SA TiVo, why would it be insane? TiVo is now $14.99 a month for a 3 year contract. For the same price you get it integrated with your cable system and dual tuners, seems reasonable to me.
> 
> $10 more for-
> Tivo to Go
> Online Scheduling
> MRV
> HMO
> HME Apps
> Rock solid software
> 
> I would gladely pay it..
> 
> Why are you guys in the TiVo forum if you don't think it's worth $10 a month..?


I would agree that it might be worth it if it had all of the SA Tivo features and could do HD. However, why do you think it would have those options. Is the 6412 even networkable? Somehow I doubt it would be any more than the DirecTV version. Just the TiVo software and none of the extra features.


----------



## Adam1115

So in conclusion-

If your happy with stripped down crappy DVR's either buggy motorola software, buggy direcTV software, or 6 year old stripped DirecTV 'powered by tivo' never updated again software you should leave this forum and be happy with what you have.

If you love TiVo, thus the reason your in this forum in the first place, and enjoy using a REAL DVR with all of the features that TiVo has, that no other DVR has, then you would gladly pay $10 a month more for a superior product.


----------



## SullyND

bigpuma said:


> However, why do you think it would have those options. Is the 6412 even networkable? Somehow I doubt it would be any more than the DirecTV version. Just the TiVo software and none of the extra features.


Why? Because the announcement said it would.



> This long-term, non-exclusive partnership will provide millions of Comcast customers with the opportunity to choose the TiVo service, including TiVo's award-winning user interface and features like Season Pass(TM) and WishList(TM), as an additional option. In addition, the service will showcase TiVo's home networking, multimedia, and broadband capabilities.


The 6412 has both USB and Ethernet, so I don't see why it wouldn't.


----------



## SpankyInChicago

bpratt said:


> Did anyone indicate the Motorolla TiVo from Comcast would record HD?


Their current DVR records HD and will be field-upgradable to the Tivo software. So no reason to believe that the "upgrade" to Tivo would disable the ability to record HD.


----------



## bigpuma

SullyND said:


> Why? Because the announcement said it would.
> 
> The 6412 has both USB and Ethernet, so I don't see why it wouldn't.


I never saw that announcement. That is good news, I guess I just have such little faith in Comcast. Too bad I can't get Comcast where we are moving.


----------



## miss_my_utv

Adam1115 said:


> So in conclusion-
> 
> If your happy with stripped down crappy DVR's either buggy motorola software, buggy direcTV software, or 6 year old stripped DirecTV 'powered by tivo' never updated again software *you should leave this forum* and be happy with what you have.
> 
> If you *love* TiVo, *thus the reason your in this forum in the first place*, and enjoy using a REAL DVR with all of the features that TiVo has, that no other DVR has, then you would gladly pay $10 a month more for a superior product.


NOTE: bold emphasis in quote added.

must...resist...response...

too...much...material...

Damn, I can't!! But I'll pass on most things.

I said I participated in the forum because I had an HDTivo and I (among others) "...find the forum useful to exchange information about them. I've gotten much useful information from the Tivo experts, and really appreciate it!"

You obviously don't believe this to be a valid use of the forum.

But, if I go to the "Main Tivo Forums" page, the description for this forum is "HDTV TiVo Powered PVRs - This is the place to discuss TiVo powered PVRs that are able to record HDTV."

Funny, I don't see anything in that description that requires me to bow several times a day towards Alviso! If I'm mistaken, please have a moderator let me know - I don't want to intrude on a cheerleaders' camp. Otherwise, learn to deal with the diversity of needs, views, opinions, etc.

If I had bashed Tivo, I might understand your reaction. But all I did was point out that I'd be unlikely to find the Comcast Tivo worth $10/mo more than their normal DVR (and that I understood it WAS to many others).

And that I hoped Tivo would find a way to maintain a sustainable business. If I were vindictive (which I'm not - at the moment), comments like yours might cause me to change my mind about that - the folks I know at Tivo would have no problem finding new jobs, but losing a "love" is often devastating...


----------



## miss_my_utv

AbMagFab said:


> Does anyone really think Comcast will be any better than DirecTV? And this is a different hardware platform.
> 
> Won't this just be another crippled, buggy DVR, but with Tivo on it?
> 
> I only trust Tivo to give me real Tivo software at this point. Series 3 is the way to go.


Regardless of whether the impacts are as extreme as you believe them to be (and I'm not "judging" your assessment), clearly having two companies involved will make things somewhat different, take longer to respond to issues, etc. Especially with a lumbering giant like Comcast!

Hopefully the Tivo-on-Comcast box will be at least as good as the HDTivos, which, even with their shortcomings, do a pretty good job of meeting the needs of the masses of non-power-users (like me!).

And, as you said, the Series 3 sounds like a promising upgrade for user's who demand more from their DVRs, like you (actually, if I recall correctly, that would be "MANY DVRs" in your case!).

It'll be interesting to see how things play out over the next few years with all the new and upgraded providers and different equipment options. Choice is good!


----------



## MikeCG

I now pay $10/mo. for the HORRIBLE Motorola HD DVR. If the Comcast Tivo records HD and is a "real" Tivo, I would gladly pay another $5 for it.


----------



## mst3k

MikeCG said:


> I now pay $10/mo. for the HORRIBLE Motorola HD DVR. If the Comcast Tivo records HD and is a "real" Tivo, I would gladly pay another $5 for it.


Ok as someone who is really sick to death of the video dropouts and audio skips with Directv HDTivo and considering jumping to cable for the bandwidth, Please, rather than just call the Motorola HD DVR horrible, would you mind saying, why??
Please elaborate on why you think the motorola is horrible.


----------



## inaka

mst3k said:


> Ok as someone who is really sick to death of the video dropouts and audio skips with Directv HDTivo and considering jumping to cable for the bandwidth, Please, rather than just call the Motorola HD DVR horrible, would you mind saying, why??
> Please elaborate on why you think the motorola is horrible.


I've used both now, and I can safely say that the Motorola 6412 Phase III is far from horrible. It's biggest drawback is the smaller HD and that it's not user-upgradable. Other than that it's a dual tuner HD tuner that is cheap (essentially free in my case), and while not as good as a true TiVo, it's a solid "B" when TiVo is an "A", in my opinion.


----------



## Cabrill

Is it not user upgradeable? I read plenty of threads on AVSForums about people plugging in external SATA drives(up to 120GB) to double the amount of recording space, and there IS more than one SATA spot. I wasn't planning on doing it until it had TiVo functionality because I was worried the TiVo software might break the use of SATA hard drives and didn't want to risk having a hard drive I couldn't use but as far as I know it works right now, and might possibly continue working with the TiVo software loaded on it.


----------



## Ed_Hunt

I too left D*tv to move to hd locals on Comcast. I have had Tivo in one form or another since its inception. I love 
tivo, it is the best all around system I have used. I also had Replay tv and I thought that was a very good system, just not as good as Tivo's. That having been said, I have had Comcast for about 3 months now and the only problem I have is the size of the hard drive. Cabrill, I don't know where you saw the sata drives will work, but I've read every forum I can find on the box and everyone of them says you can't do it yet. If you can point me in the right direction I would very much appreciate it. Anyway although the DVR does what it is supposed to it is still not Tivo. I decided to make the change based on the fact the interface would be Tivo before too long. I do recommend the DVR.


----------



## Adam1115

miss_my_utv said:


> NOTE: bold emphasis in quote added.
> 
> must...resist...response...
> 
> too...much...material...
> 
> Damn, I can't!! But I'll pass on most things.
> 
> I said I participated in the forum because I had an HDTivo and I (among others) "...find the forum useful to exchange information about them. I've gotten much useful information from the Tivo experts, and really appreciate it!"
> 
> You obviously don't believe this to be a valid use of the forum.
> 
> But, if I go to the "Main Tivo Forums" page, the description for this forum is "HDTV TiVo Powered PVRs - This is the place to discuss TiVo powered PVRs that are able to record HDTV."
> 
> Funny, I don't see anything in that description that requires me to bow several times a day towards Alviso! If I'm mistaken, please have a moderator let me know - I don't want to intrude on a cheerleaders' camp. Otherwise, learn to deal with the diversity of needs, views, opinions, etc.
> 
> If I had bashed Tivo, I might understand your reaction. But all I did was point out that I'd be unlikely to find the Comcast Tivo worth $10/mo more than their normal DVR (and that I understood it WAS to many others).
> 
> And that I hoped Tivo would find a way to maintain a sustainable business. If I were vindictive (which I'm not - at the moment), comments like yours might cause me to change my mind about that - the folks I know at Tivo would have no problem finding new jobs, but losing a "love" is often devastating...


Nope, if you come here you MUST be part of the TiVolution!


----------



## tj722

The HD on my 6412 is only 120GB... just a few HD + SD programs pretty much fill the thing up right away.  My current setup is to have my Standalone S2 TiVo handle the analog channels and the 6412 handle recordings for digital/HD... I probably will keep this setup when the TiVo software arrives.

And after suffering for years with Comcast's DVRs (Scientific Atlanta, and now Motorola) I can say that 10 bucks a month more is worth it! The 6412 interface is actually not that bad, but there are some real rough spots and some nasty bugs. And I have a feeling that the TiVo software will suffer one of the same problems that the 6412 has... when you unplug it, you lose *all* guide data... how lame is that?!?


----------



## dt_dc

Cabrill said:


> Is it not user upgradeable? I read plenty of threads on AVSForums about people plugging in external SATA drives(up to 120GB) to double the amount of recording space, and there IS more than one SATA spot.


AFAIK, no one has successfully added an external drive to a Motorola box. The external ports are there ... and lots of talk of them being enabled "soon" ... but nothing yet.

The Scientific Atlanta boxes however (8300 and 8300HD) ... those have external SATA ports ... and they are active and usable for many people. It depends on the exact version of your firmware ... but for most people running SARA they are active. I dunno about Passport.


----------



## TR7spyder

mst3k said:


> Ok as someone who is really sick to death of the video dropouts and audio skips with Directv HDTivo and considering jumping to cable for the bandwidth, Please, rather than just call the Motorola HD DVR horrible, would you mind saying, why??
> Please elaborate on why you think the motorola is horrible.


Lets see, it freezes up (requiring re-boot) and/or mutes the sound every now and then (I have tried the fix codes, they were only temporary fixes, re-booting return it to the default settings). Reading AVS forum, I see that I have relatively few problems, compared to some other people . Pause button is quick, but any command that follows it, is delayed by ~5 seconds (this is a MAJOR annoyance to me after my TIVO).

On top of that, DVR itself is DUMB, usually it is unable to switch between the tuners by itself, instead prompting you for a command.

However, I am comparing it to a SD D* TIVO and from I am hearing, HD D* TIVO, is not as smooth.

I consider the bugs to be the biggest actual flaw, if TIVO software fixes most of them, Comcast would be ill-advised to still offer the original, buggy DVR software at any price. Instead, they should just keep the current $10 DVR fee and ONLY offer TIVO

But can we really expect this new TIVO software to fix the problems that they have been battling for many years? Could it actually have MORE problems? I guess we will know soon enough. However, if TIVO software does not fix the bugs, then it is NOT worth the extra money!


----------



## miss_my_utv

Adam1115 said:


> Nope, if you come here you MUST be part of the TiVolution!


Does joining require wearing a special beret? Or other distinctive headcovering?

Or maybe a Tivo tatoo? I can think of a few body locations where an animated version might be way cool (at least to "true believers")!


----------



## elect

QZ1 said:


> What? They are decreasing the price of a DVR from $10 to $5. Is that correct or a typo?
> 
> Comcast reducing prices? That much.  I don't believe it.
> 
> Although, I think STBs are regulated, and they do decrease, usually not that much. But, Comcast can get around that, by saying part of the DVR fee is for DVR 'service'.
> 
> I saw a price list from another system in my home state of PA, and they are already listing the Tivo-enabled DVR at $15, like you said; but the generic DVR is still $10. (These prices are to upgrade the included Digital STB to a DVR.) So, it is a $5 difference.


What system did you see this offered? I would really love to know. Thanks


----------



## Adam1115

miss_my_utv said:


> Does joining require wearing a special beret? Or other distinctive headcovering?
> 
> Or maybe a Tivo tatoo? I can think of a few body locations where an animated version might be way cool (at least to "true believers")!


Well, that's a good idea, although I'm not into tattoos personally... I would love to see the animated TiVo Tattoo...


----------



## fastep

Ed_Hunt said:


> I too left D*tv to move to hd locals on Comcast. I have had Tivo in one form or another since its inception. I love
> tivo, it is the best all around system I have used. I also had Replay tv and I thought that was a very good system, just not as good as Tivo's. That having been said, I have had Comcast for about 3 months now and the only problem I have is the size of the hard drive. Cabrill, I don't know where you saw the sata drives will work, but I've read every forum I can find on the box and everyone of them says you can't do it yet. If you can point me in the right direction I would very much appreciate it. Anyway although the DVR does what it is supposed to it is still not Tivo. I decided to make the change based on the fact the interface would be Tivo before too long. I do recommend the DVR.


I also have the moto6412III with comcast version 12.18 and think it works very well and 1000x faster than HDTivo. HDD is too small though on 6412. I have firewire connected to rca 2160 and works perfectly to add 160gb HD storage.

I tryed to connect to SATA and it DOES NOT work. I understand SATA is only enabled with SA 8300.

Unless tivo software allows for more storage via usb or SATA, I would not pay extra for it.


----------



## dt_dc

fastep said:


> HDD is too small though on 6412. I have firewire connected to rca 2160 and works perfectly to add 160gb HD storage.


Is the 6412 actually recording to the 2160 via Firewire? If so ... that would be very interesting. I haven't heard of AVHDD support on _any_ cable box.

Or do you have some other source (like a TV with Firewire output) hooked up and recording to the 2160?

Thanks.


----------



## fastep

dt_dc said:


> Is the 6412 actually recording to the 2160 via Firewire? If so ... that would be very interesting. I haven't heard of AVHDD support on _any_ cable box.
> 
> Or do you have some other source (like a TV with Firewire output) hooked up and recording to the 2160?
> 
> Thanks.


yes - Moto6412 to RCA2160 and RCA2160 to Mitsubishi tv all via firewire. TV controls the RCA playback (list, play, FF, REW, 30 sec skip etc) of recorded show from moto6412. Records much like recording from tivo to dvd recorder except RCA2160 is more like an HD VCR (no titles or chapters but HD PQ is AWESOME!)


----------



## dt_dc

fastep said:


> Moto6412 to RCA2160 and RCA2160 to Mitsubishi tv all via firewire. TV controls the RCA playback (list, play, FF, REW, 30 sec skip etc) of recorded show from moto6412. Records much like recording from tivo to dvd recorder except RCA2160 is more like an HD VCR (no titles or chapters but HD PQ is AWESOME!)


Ahh ... I see (I think). Cool setup.

But my understanding is if you took the Mits TV out of the mix the 6412 wouldn't be able to transfer content to the 2160 on its own. The Mits TV ... or some other full HAVi device like the HD5000 ... lets you do it. But just the 6412 and 2160 by themselves (or say with some non-HAVi non-Firewire TV connected by DVI or component) ... that combo wouldn't give you the ability you have now (archive content from the 6412 off to the 2160).

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway ... cool setup ...


----------



## dt_dc

dt_dc said:


> Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


Actually ... please correct me if I'm wrong since it (cable lack of AVHDD support) was part of my rant here:
http://reviews.cnet.com/5420-6449_7-0.html?forumID=104&messageID=628027&threadID=47405


----------



## QZ1

elect said:


> What system did you see this offered? I would really love to know. Thanks


I don't remember what system it was, but, IIRC, it was in S.C. PA. It was listed because it would be out soon.


----------



## QZ1

SpankyInChicago said:


> I asked that. He said "Tivo will be $10 more than the regular DVR." So I asked "Tivo is going to be $20?" And he said "No. They are dropping the price on the standard DVR by $5."
> 
> So, $9.99 - $5.00 + $10.00 = $14.99. Unless I misunderstood him.


I am skeptical about this, but I hope it is true. Maybe Comcast's cost for the DVR and/or the service has decreased, and they are forced by regs. to pass this savings along to the customer. They certainly wouldn't do it to get more DVR subs, as they can barely keep up with demand.

If you look at our area, and many others, a Digital STB is included with Digital service, this STB is only itemized at $4.75 for Premiums a la carte. So, this $4.75 must be added to other nominal STB/DVR fees, to see the real fees.

With the fee to upgrade to a DVR at $9.95, the effective DVR fee is _$14.70_; and reducing it to $4.95, makes it effectively _$9.70_, a 34% decrease from the current effective fee, this is plausible, I guess.


----------



## johnh123

Maybe as part of the service tivo will allow you to expand the moto boxes? Maybe i'm dreaming...


----------



## Cabrill

fastep said:


> I also have the moto6412III with comcast version 12.18 and think it works very well and 1000x faster than HDTivo. HDD is too small though on 6412. I have firewire connected to rca 2160 and works perfectly to add 160gb HD storage.
> 
> I tryed to connect to SATA and it DOES NOT work. I understand SATA is only enabled with SA 8300.
> 
> Unless tivo software allows for more storage via usb or SATA, I would not pay extra for it.


Ah, you're right. I was looking at a SA 8300 thread by mistake. Well, that's a minor disappointment. Still...here's to hoping the TiVo software will enable those ports.


----------



## fastep

dt_dc said:


> Ahh ... I see (I think). Cool setup.
> 
> But my understanding is if you took the Mits TV out of the mix the 6412 wouldn't be able to transfer content to the 2160 on its own. The Mits TV ... or some other full HAVi device like the HD5000 ... lets you do it. But just the 6412 and 2160 by themselves (or say with some non-HAVi non-Firewire TV connected by DVI or component) ... that combo wouldn't give you the ability you have now (archive content from the 6412 off to the 2160).
> 
> Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> Anyway ... cool setup ...


The TV controls the 2160 so therefore do not get the 2160 if your tv does not have firewire connection. If your tv has firewire, I think the 2160 is worth $99 (go to hdtoystore.com).


----------



## dt_dc

fastep said:


> If your tv has firewire, I think the 2160 is worth $99


If your TV has Firewire _and_ supports AVHDD (some TVs with Firewire don't).


----------



## srcohen

Right now I have both the Comcast DVR (yuck) aand TIVO attached to the same TV. The Comcast DVR, as everyone has noted, is horrible - but it records digital stations, which my TIVO does not (I know, it could, but I choose not). Question: With the Comcast DVR, will I need to keep my separate TIVO subscription? Is the extra $5 Comcast is charging for TIVO service? Can I cancel my (monthly) TIVO subscription because I have Comcast? If so, the extra $5 actually represents a savings of $8 per month!!


----------



## JfNebraska

While I think it's clear that most of us TiVoholics would gladly pay $10 more per month, I fear John Q Public will not. At first blush, the benefits are too slight, and it's not until weeks or months of using both units that the monumental difference becomes plainly visible.

This seems like another unworkable business idea from the good folks at TiVo. They are technology gods, and I couldn't get by without them. But when it comes to financial acumen, they don't seem to have a clue.


----------



## Budget_HT

I believe the TiVo add-on option at Comcast is specifically designed to grab DirecTV subs who refuse to give up their 2-tuner SD and HD TiVo capabilities.

When DirecTV ultimately forces a change to their NDS non-TiVo boxes, many folks will follow the TiVo software to Comcast, IF the new marriage is working reliably.

Besides ease of use, TiVo, IMHO, has the most reliable recording capability, especially when compared to current cable DVR offerings.


----------



## fastep

Budget_HT said:


> I believe the TiVo add-on option at Comcast is specifically designed to grab DirecTV subs who refuse to give up their 2-tuner SD and HD TiVo capabilities.
> 
> When DirecTV ultimately forces a change to their NDS non-TiVo boxes, many folks will follow the TiVo software to Comcast, IF the new marriage is working reliably.
> 
> Besides ease of use, TiVo, IMHO, has the most reliable recording capability, especially when compared to current cable DVR offerings.


Although I agree that DTV will lose many customers when their NDS boxes replace existing dvrs, I don't understand why people say tivo has the most reliable recording capability.

I used 2 HdTivos and 2 directtivos for years and have recently switched to Comcast. I am using the Moto6412 III and the Sony DHG 500 and both are much faster and just as reliable as the HDTivo. Season passes are similar and I have not missed any recordings since switching.

Actually my overall tv viewing experience is more satisfactory without tivo software.


----------



## Budget_HT

fastep said:


> Although I agree that DTV will lose many customers when their NDS boxes replace existing dvrs, I don't understand why people say tivo has the most reliable recording capability.
> 
> I used 2 HdTivos and 2 directtivos for years and have recently switched to Comcast. I am using the Moto6412 III and the Sony DHG 500 and both are much faster and just as reliable as the HDTivo. Season passes are similar and I have not missed any recordings since switching.
> 
> Actually my overall tv viewing experience is more satisfactory without tivo software.


Perhaps the 6412 version you have is more stable and more reliable than the Microsoft version they offer us here in Washington state. Right now the 6412 owners here are frustrated with the unpredictable behaviors of their DVRs.

IMHO, whether or not TiVo is "best," there are thousands of DirecTiVo users, both SD and HD, who are not interested in the NDS alternatives being offered by DirecTV. Many of those folks will follow TiVo to Comcast if reports say that the Motorola or Panasonic DVRs work well with TiVo software on board, even if there is a premium charge to have TiVo instead of Microsoft or iGuide or whatever.


----------



## AbMagFab

fastep said:


> Although I agree that DTV will lose many customers when their NDS boxes replace existing dvrs, I don't understand why people say tivo has the most reliable recording capability.
> 
> I used 2 HdTivos and 2 directtivos for years and have recently switched to Comcast. I am using the Moto6412 III and the Sony DHG 500 and both are much faster and just as reliable as the HDTivo. Season passes are similar and I have not missed any recordings since switching.
> 
> Actually my overall tv viewing experience is more satisfactory without tivo software.


"Tivo for years"
"Comcast DVR just recently"

How you can compare reliability with such an unbalanced frame of reference is amazing.

Talk to anyone who has the Comcast boxes for more than a few months, and you'll find that they end up duplicating all recordings they care about on their SA Tivo since the Comcast box (Moto or SciAtl) is just painfully unreliable.


----------



## fastep

Perhaps in my area the box is reliable or maybe I got lucky. I am amazed that some people feel the moto is slow. Mine is incredibly fast. As a matter of fact, I have used just about every dvr ever made and this moto is the fastest!

After a few months if it does become unstable I will exchange it for another at no charge. And just like when I had 2 Hdtivos, I back up all important shows on the sony (just in case).


----------



## fastep

Budget_HT said:


> Many of those folks will follow TiVo to Comcast if reports say that the Motorola or Panasonic DVRs work well with TiVo software on board, even if there is a premium charge to have TiVo instead of Microsoft or iGuide or whatever.


Just curious, will the panny box have tivo software? Any word on a release date?

Thanks.


----------



## dt_dc

AbMagFab said:


> Talk to anyone who has the Comcast boxes for more than a few months, and you'll find that they end up duplicating all recordings they care about on their SA Tivo since the Comcast box (Moto or SciAtl) is just painfully unreliable.


My two SciAtl DVRs haven't missed a single recording in ...

Well, I forget how long but it's been over a year.


----------



## Budget_HT

fastep said:


> Perhaps in my area the box is reliable or maybe I got lucky. I am amazed that some people feel the moto is slow. Mine is incredibly fast. As a matter of fact, I have used just about every dvr ever made and this moto is the fastest!
> 
> After a few months if it does become unstable I will exchange it for another at no charge. And just like when I had 2 Hdtivos, I back up all important shows on the sony (just in case).


I don't have a Comcast DVR myself, but folks I work with do. They are not complaining about slow response times, they are complaining about issues with recording reliably, recording duplicates, recording only the first few minutes of a program, and more.

Personally, I would rather deal with my slow and reliable HD TiVos than some fast but unreliable alternative.

I expect all STBs to improve with time, so a new look would be needed after every software upgrade.


----------



## Polarorbit

I have the Comcast Motorola DVR and to be honest it sucks at everything. All the complaints on this string are true. The unit is slow, misses recording shows, is hard to set up, requires power cycling to unfreeze and at most seems to have only one day of future shows so all my searches come up empty so you can't set up the recorder. 

I called Comcast about this and their service bimbo said they were aware the Motorola box had "issues" but they had no answers. That pissed me off. They know the stuff sucks...maybe they should stop charging us extra for it.

The first company that comes up with a Tivo HDTV solution at a reasonable price will get my business.

Why will no one give us any information about the Series 3? What is the f***ing secrecy about?


----------



## bigpuma

Polarorbit said:


> The first company that comes up with a Tivo HDTV solution at a reasonable price will get my business.


So, when are you going to call DirecTV?


----------



## fastep

Polarorbit said:


> I have the Comcast Motorola DVR and to be honest it sucks at everything. All the complaints on this string are true. The unit is slow, misses recording shows, is hard to set up, requires power cycling to unfreeze and at most seems to have only one day of future shows so all my searches come up empty so you can't set up the recorder.
> 
> I called Comcast about this and their service bimbo said they were aware the Motorola box had "issues" but they had no answers. That pissed me off. They know the stuff sucks...maybe they should stop charging us extra for it.
> 
> The first company that comes up with a Tivo HDTV solution at a reasonable price will get my business.
> 
> Why will no one give us any information about the Series 3? What is the f***ing secrecy about?


I believe it is a regional problem. I waited to get the motorola 6412 when the series III was available and when my area went all digital. The firmware on my box is 12.18. Having any other box\firmware could explain your problems.

I have been using the moto for several months now and I am in HEAVEN ! This box FLYS!! Searching for shows and setting recordings happens almost as soon as you press a button. It is the way a dvr should be.

I have had no problems with missed recordings \ freezeups and the PQ is better than DTV in HD and SD. Not to mention local baseball in HD (AWESOME). I did add the sony HD Dvr because the moto falls short in capacity (my only complaint). When they enable the SATA port on the moto (hopefully by this summer) a sata external HDD can be added. Then the box will be perfect!

For me getting better PQ and increasing speed in searching for programs and setting recordings \ season passes was worth losing some recording capacity.

I believe that many parts of the country are still behind in cable technology. I would not switch from DTV unless your local cable has switched to ADS (all digital simulcast) and offers either the moto 6412 III with firmware at least 12.18 or the SA 8300 HD. These seem to be the only 'no upfront cost' boxes that are reliable.

I would recommend the sony dvr but they are back up to over $500 (too much to spend in case you don't like cable and switch back to DTV.


----------



## hancox

fastep said:


> I would not switch from DTV unless your local cable has switched to ADS (all digital simulcast) and offers either the moto 6412 III with firmware at least 12.18 or the SA 8300 HD.


The 8300HD has the same firmware problems. My cable company uses SARA-based homegrown junk, and it really knocks the box down a few notches...

Add that to the rumours of a 1600 line limit on the output (honestly haven't read enough to verify), and I turn away... (yes, I know it beats 1280 from D* for now, but I'm holding out...)


----------



## tj722

We're inching closer to June 2006... The rumors that I'm hearing are the TiVo cannot get around the hardware limitations of the Moto boxes and that it may be delayed further or cancelled. I realize that this is just a rumor but with Comcast I would not be surprised.

In the meantime, the "Play" button on my remote is starting to wear out since I keep on having to press it at least 5 times to get my Moto 3412 to register the key press. The responsiveness on these things is so variable. It seems that if *anything* is going on in the background, the user will be penalized. That is not the way to write a UI.

I will be so glad when I never have to look at iGuide or SARA again!


----------



## inaka

Polarorbit said:


> I have the Comcast Motorola DVR and to be honest it sucks at everything. All the complaints on this string are true. *The unit is slow*, misses recording shows, is hard to set up, requires power cycling to unfreeze and at most seems to have only one day of future shows so all my searches come up empty so you can't set up the recorder


What Comcast Motorola HD DVR do you have?

If you have the DCT6412 Series III with the HDMI port, then I'm shocked you'd call it "slow". In comparion to the HD Tivo, it's blazingly fast. As for your other issues with the box, you may just need a firmware upgrade, but since it's via Comcast, it isn't always easy to get. I have older firmware, but I've never had the problems you've described.


----------



## apple1

I spoke with a Comcast rep. for the Boston area two weeks ago and he also told me that Comcast will be switching to the TIVO format in the near future. When the near future is, is, of course, anyone's guess? We have used Directv with Tivo for years and have loved it. Tivo is so easy to use and extremely intuitive! However, when we purchased an HD TV recently we switched reluctantly to Comcast. I am ready to switch back to Directv but I have heard the Hughes HD DVR is terrible and do not want to invest in old technology. I was told that there was going to be an upgrade in April, but no one knows anything about it. Does anyone know about when Comcast may be formatting to TIVO or Directv coming out with a new HD DVR?


----------



## cheer

Budget_HT said:


> I believe the TiVo add-on option at Comcast is specifically designed to grab DirecTV subs who refuse to give up their 2-tuner SD and HD TiVo capabilities.


Then they ought to re-think their pricing strategy. Right now I have four DVRs from D* -- 3 SD and 1 HD. For this I pay $15 in mirroring fees and $6 for a DVR fee.

With Comcast's pricing model, that $21 jumps to $60. Plus, I would guess that the Comcast DVRs don't record OTA ATSC.

On the plus side, I wouldn't mind a snappier HD DVR (assuming the Tivo-powered Moto box is indeed snappier). And I wouldn't mind some of the newer features...but no way would I pay $60, and that doesn't even touch the fact that my programming costs are cheaper via D* too.

About once every six months or so I call Comcast to get a quote (since their web site is bizarrely difficult to use to get an exact amount). Every time so far, I end up looking at all the extra money I'm going to have to spend. I wish it were not that way -- I'd love to get my locals in HD (I currently get most OTA, but CBS I cannot), and in particular I'd love to get our RSN in HD.

--chris


----------



## tenement9

All this talk and I still cant find a reason NOT to go with the comcast Tdvr's. The amount of money I pay now a month for the 3 boxes and tivos I have is about 70$. This is for 3 stv boxes and 3 s2 tivos. Between the monthly fees to tivo and to comcast. It just seems more efficient to get the Comcast boxes. I can now get 2 hdtdvr's and 1 standard for less money. Assuming that the stv dvr from comcast will be 10$. But even at that. 45$ for 3 hd tivos is worth it. 

Should I choose to go with a series 3, then I am looking at god knows how much for the box, price of the service, and the price of 4 cable cards. That can be astronomical in itself. Probably somewhere around either 800$ or 90$ plus a month.

I called D* today to find out the price for service if I switched today and I was shocked. It would cost me 800$ for "Leased" hr10-250's, plus 75.00 a month starting at the 4th month not including hd and dvr fees. This is just crazy since I would have to switch to phone and DSL. Adding 70 more dollars to the mix. Also, the person I spoke to at D* named Lisa probably tier 1 said that each DVR box has a 5.99 monthly fee for the Tivo service. This makes my monthly cost $+150.00.

Incidently, My father switched to D* 6 months ago. Bought all his stuff from them and had them install it. One of his hr10-250's went bad. When we called D* they told us that we had to pay 400$ for a new box even though it was leased. 15$ for a box that will be fixed or replaced on a phone call is worth it as well.

This may be only my situation. But it's a damn good reason to take comcast Tdvr's.


----------



## cliffbig

I have three DirecTV 250's and four Motorola 6412's, since I have both Comcast and DirecTV; while the interfaces are different, the Motorola 6412's have been reliable, rocksolid machines that have never had a hard drive failure, have never had an overheating problem, and have never failed to record. The Motorola's have a less elegant interface than the 250's, but it works just as well, and the HD recorded from Comcast looks brighter, sharper, and more detailed than the HD recorded from DirecTV.

Comcast's boxes--all four of them--respond quickly and efficiently to commands, execute searches just fine, and have always done what they were programmed to do. It's an uglier display, of course, and it lacks some features that I enjoy from Tivo... but had I never had a Tivo unit, I would think that Comcast was all I could ask for. It's only when you know better, from comparing both side by side, that you see the benefits of each. I only wish that my DirecTV units would instantly respond when I programmed a recording, and I wish I hadn't lost recordings on two units that went bad in the past year...


cliff biggers


----------



## Budget_HT

cliffbig,

Please post where you live or add it to your profile. The Comcast quality varies around the country. Here in Washington state they are trialing Microsoft software for the 6412's and they are terrible.

I have two HD TiVo's and two SD TiVo's from DirecTV, and I have had no problems with either HD TiVo--one of which I received the first month they were released. That one is overworked to say the least, but never a fault.

My point is that the Comcast head-end and distribution services are not consistent around the country, nor are the behaviors of their HD DVRs.

Consider yourself lucky to be in a good Comcast area. Now, where is that?


----------



## IOTP

Sevenfeet said:


> Anything to get this crappy TV Guide software off the box. And I do mean anything...


We have COX cable available in the Phoenix area. Pretty much they have exclusivity except for certain areas of Mesa where Cable America is.

We have a saying here..

They don't call them Cox "s**kers" for nothing you know.

COX's DVR is the Scientific Atlanta, as is their HD-DVR. I have friends who have it.

I am NOT impressed. Some people just cannot get past the 'dish' on the side of the house. I tell them, that when they are inside, they cannot see it. It's invisible.


----------



## johnh123

fastep said:


> When they enable the SATA port on the moto (hopefully by this summer) a sata external HDD can be added. Then the box will be perfect!


Where have you heard that they will be enabling the SATA port? Is this confirmed, or just a rumor?


----------



## MichaelK

cheer said:


> Then they ought to re-think their pricing strategy. Right now I have four DVRs from D* -- 3 SD and 1 HD. For this I pay $15 in mirroring fees and $6 for a DVR fee.
> 
> With Comcast's pricing model, that $21 jumps to $60. Plus, I would guess that the Comcast DVRs don't record OTA ATSC.
> 
> On the plus side, I wouldn't mind a snappier HD DVR (assuming the Tivo-powered Moto box is indeed snappier). And I wouldn't mind some of the newer features...but no way would I pay $60, and that doesn't even touch the fact that my programming costs are cheaper via D* too.
> 
> About once every six months or so I call Comcast to get a quote (since their web site is bizarrely difficult to use to get an exact amount). Every time so far, I end up looking at all the extra money I'm going to have to spend. I wish it were not that way -- I'd love to get my locals in HD (I currently get most OTA, but CBS I cannot), and in particular I'd love to get our RSN in HD.
> 
> --chris


Pricing for DVRs doesnt occur in a vacuum. With cables triple play and Directvs ever increasing fees, its possible at some point a complete Comcast package will be cheaper than Directv plus internet plus phone plus dvrs (and maybe cell).

Granted you need to bother with Comcast for all the other stuff and that might not be worth it.


----------



## cheer

MichaelK said:


> Pricing for DVRs doesnt occur in a vacuum. With cables triple play and Directvs ever increasing fees, its possible at some point a complete Comcast package will be cheaper than Directv plus internet plus phone plus dvrs (and maybe cell).
> 
> Granted you need to bother with Comcast for all the other stuff and that might not be worth it.


Well that's the thing. In the first place, I don't really want that...but in the second place, even then it won't always be a big difference.

Example:

RIght now, Comcast will give me cable modem access for around $47 per month. My current provider (a fixed wireless service) is $50/month for the equivalent bandwidth. So I can save $3 there.

Phone is another story. I get a significant discount because I work for a telco, but let's exclude that discount for the purposes of general discussion. Comcast.com shows digital voice service in my area for $39.95/mo. A star indicates that this is "promotional pricing," and the tiny print says after the "promotional period" the rate will go up. Still, let's leave it at $39.95. They include the usual features, along with unlimited local and LD. SBC/AT&T shows something called "All Distance Select," a bundle of unlimited local and LD for the same price (though not quite as feature-rich). Still, I'd guess it's close to Comcast's...and even if not, I'm probably going to switch to VoIP. My ISP offers VoIP, or I could alternatively get AT&T's CallVantage. Either way it's about $25/mo. (If I get it from my ISP, I can get a discount on my internet service as well.)

As for wireless...Comcast isn't offering anything like that right now that I can see. I know AT&T does, but their website is having a headache at the moment.

Bottom line...I can't see any way that Comcast can bundle things that would offset the higher cost of their TV service. Naturally that's with respect to my situation...four DVRs and so on. But DirecTV is going to have to hose me over far worse than they have for me to pony up that kind of extra cash.

And I hear what you're saying about DirecTV's ever-increasing fees...but last time I checked, cable fees were also increasing. In fact, in speaking with my father (who's in the area here and has cable), the cablecos are still more aggressive with rate hikes than D* has been.

YM, as always, MV.

--chris


----------



## MichaelK

clearly it's not universal, but there are areas where cable is very competitive for the bundles. Obviosly you'rs isn't. 

And if you factor in promotional pricing it can be crazy. Cablevision has some deal now for a year I think where it's $99 for tv/net/and unlimited phone. Now sure of their DVR pricing and how much TV you get for that though.


I have directv myself but I have investigated what my local dink cable company (patriot media) can do for me- mostly in regards to getting a bunch or series 3 once they come out.. Their everything bundle with the monthly service for 3 Series3 units will be cheaper than I pay now for Directv with HD with DVR plus crappy DSL(served by sprint local here) plus my local phone with unlimited calling. I can save a few bucks but get 5 times the interent speed and like 2 or 3 times the HD channels. I will have no 2 year commitment that a new HD box from Directv will cost and I can probably save a hundred or more to start with on the promotional new sub pricing for a limited time. Granted I'll need to buy my own series 2 boxes. So I'm dying for the series 3 to come out. I dont KNOW but I suspect they would be in the ballpark with 3 of their rented DVR's. I think they loose folks the advantage with folks like you though who have 4 or more DVR's.

Granted most places aren't so lucky, but people should check their local cable schmucks, maybe they will be pleasantly surprised. I know I was.


as you so wisely said YMMV!


----------



## TR7spyder

tenement9 said:


> All this talk and I still cant find a reason NOT to go with the comcast Tdvr's.


I listed a few reasons earlier in the this thread:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3869358&&#post3869358

Now I have a few to add (there are many more, but these are my latest gripes):

- It will turn off when you are watching something on DVR, when it stops recording on one of the other tuners.
- If you select to keep just one show out of a series, it will delete the older show when the new one starts recording, EVEN IF you are currently watching the older show!!! This is happen several times now with my kids shows
- It is incredibly dumb when it comes to budgeting between the tuners. It will give you warnings and options to stop/delete current recordings when there is an UNSED tuner.

Overall, it is a VERY DUMB device! I cant wait for something better to come around, ether from Comcast or D* I have come around on this topic. I will gladly pay extra $10/month to get better functionality!

But I see what you are saying D* cost. They have priced themselves out of the market. Who, in their right mind, would go for one of their current HD deals (as long as you have an option)? Everything, from equipment cost to monthly fees, makes it more expensive than Comcast. And what do you end up with? Equipment that might be obsolete with a year, that you leased for the same price as it used to cost you to buy it


----------



## formulaben

bigpuma said:


> So, when are you going to call DirecTV?


I believe he said "_at a reasonable price_..."


----------



## bigpuma

formulaben said:


> I believe he said "_at a reasonable price_..."


The problem with that is to me $399 after rebate sounds reasonable.


----------



## formulaben

I might think it's reasonable if they were reliable and they fully supported the Tivo software.

Having said that, it would take *3 years and 3 months just to break even* in purchasing an HD Tivo versus a Comcast DVR; all the while the Comcast DVR is "insured" for breakage and any equipment upgrades are free, just swap the box. I have no doubt that many of the users with the D* HD Tivo who have had to replace their hard drive are rethinking the entire process.


----------



## stim

TR7spyder said:


> - It will turn off when you are watching something on DVR, when it stops recording on one of the other tuners.


I have found this website to be pretty informative: http://www.answers.com/topic/motorola-6412

I have not had the problem with the receiver turning itself off or muting itself. According to that website, both of those problems are caused by turning off the receiver. So if you just leave the receiver on all of the time, then you don't have to worry about it! I never turn the receiver off so that is probably why I havent noticed those problems.

I do agree that it is a dumb device, but it does get the job done. Plus the HD channels look really good. I am waiting with my wallet open to pay the extra fee to Comcast to get TiVo.


----------



## stim

TR7spyder said:


> - If you select to keep just one show out of a series, it will delete the older show when the new one starts recording, EVEN IF you are currently watching the older show!!! This is happen several times now with my kids shows


That sucks. 

You can avoid this by setting the one show to keep until you delete, that way it will not replace the show until you delete it. The shows will continue to show up in the to do list like they're going to be recorded, but the box won't actually record them until the existing show is manually deleted.


----------



## AndrewFischer

TR7spyder said:


> Lets see, it freezes up (requiring re-boot) and/or mutes the sound every now and then (I have tried the fix codes, they were only temporary fixes, re-booting return it to the default settings). Reading AVS forum, I see that I have relatively few problems, compared to some other people . Pause button is quick, but any command that follows it, is delayed by ~5 seconds (this is a MAJOR annoyance to me after my TIVO).
> 
> On top of that, DVR itself is DUMB, usually it is unable to switch between the tuners by itself, instead prompting you for a command.


You missed a few bugs in the Comcast / Motorola 6412 with iGuide:

I've had to manualy reload the firmware twice after one of MPEG encoders stoped working.

Series Recording (Season Pass) priorities are buggy. Low priorty items are often recorded instead of higher priority ones. I've got three items all at priority 5. Worse, I can't change them. Even without the bugs, TiVo's season pass is better. iGuide doesn't tell you why something wasn't recorded. iGuide doesn't have the 28 day rule. Until you have to live without it, you won't realize just how usefull that rule is.

The box pops up annoying stataus messages right in the center of the screen. There is no way to dissmiss them or turn them off. I don't care to know if the other tuner has finished a recording.

The box isn't very intellegent about which tuner to display. Sometimes when the box is only recording from one tuner, the unused tuner is not the one connected to the display. You have to reprogram the remote to beable to swap tuners.

There are problems with disk space leaks. You can loose space on the disk. Only way to get it back is to reformat the Hard Drive.

THere are bugs that create zero time recordings with no title. Deleting them can crash the system. Only known fix is to reformat the Hard Drive.

Bug where box does not respond to remote for several seconds. All commands are queued up and eventually execute.

Sometimes box goes to slow motion FF and REW instead of real FF and REW.

Program Search isn't as good as TiVo.

Season Pass UI isn't as good at TiVo.

No suggestions. I know a lot of people don't use it, but we like that feature.

We have both a Series 1 TiVo and a Motorola 6412 with iGude software. We are a Comcast customer. I can't belive anyone who has actually used a real TiVo would think the Motoroal 6412 with iGuide was as good as a TiVo.

So why do we use the Comcast DVR at all? It is HD and has two digital tuners. Picture quality is far better than our Series 1 TiVo. HBO.


----------



## AndrewFischer

TR7spyder said:


> I
> 
> If you select to keep just one show out of a series, it will delete the older show when the new one starts recording, EVEN IF you are currently watching the older show!!! This is happen several times now with my kids shows


Don't do that! It is one of the know causes of the "0" recorded program bug. It may cause other problems too. Workaround is to set the series recording to save two shows.


----------



## bigpuma

formulaben said:


> I might think it's reasonable if they were reliable and they fully supported the Tivo software.
> 
> Having said that, it would take *3 years and 3 months just to break even* in purchasing an HD Tivo versus a Comcast DVR; all the while the Comcast DVR is "insured" for breakage and any equipment upgrades are free, just swap the box. I have no doubt that many of the users with the D* HD Tivo who have had to replace their hard drive are rethinking the entire process.


Not if they bought from Valueelectronics and got the free 5 year warranty.


----------



## formulaben

But does Value Electronics give the same rebate? That timeline was based on a $399 price after rebate...perhaps the price has dropped a little since I last looked, but either way, it's still a long time before you even break even.


----------



## bigpuma

formulaben said:


> But does Value Electronics give the same rebate? That timeline was based on a $399 price after rebate...perhaps the price has dropped a little since I last looked, but either way, it's still a long time before you even break even.


I bought an R10 from them and did get the rebate so I assume it would work for the HR10-250. I bought mine before the rebate so I can only speculate.


----------



## Tivortex

Sometime in the last week or so Comcast (Denver) pushed a software upgrade to my Moto box that has seemed to fix a few of the more obvious problems. Series recording priority freakiness is gone and now I get a sort of screensaver when playback is paused. 

Has anyone else gotten this and where can I find out more about the upgrade ?


----------



## formulaben

fastep said:


> Although I agree that DTV will lose many customers when their NDS boxes replace existing dvrs, I don't understand why people say tivo has the most reliable recording capability.
> 
> I used 2 HdTivos and 2 directtivos for years and have recently switched to Comcast. I am using the Moto6412 III and the Sony DHG 500 and both are much faster and just as reliable as the HDTivo. Season passes are similar and I have not missed any recordings since switching.
> 
> Actually my overall tv viewing experience is more satisfactory without tivo software.


How many "keyword" searches has your Motorola missed? Oh yeah, it can't do that...no wonder your reliability rate is so good.


----------



## SpankyInChicago

Well June is fast approaching and still nothing official. Looks like maybe another rumor gone bad. Although I suppose June 30th is still June.


----------



## classicX

I don't understand why I keep hearing people say that the box is dumb because it asks you if you want to switch tuners. I had a DirecTivo box a little more than a year ago and it did the same thing. Why is this such a big issue?

Back to the topic... I think the Comcast DVR (if it will be $15/mo) is worth the money because it will be Comcast customers' only (viable) alternative to a series3, without the initial investment and at Tivo's CHEAPEST monthly rate, without having to pay for three years up front.

The Series3 will undoubtedly be a better option for those who can take advantage (and non-Comcast users), if not just because of the fact that it's Tivo-controlled hardware, the bigger hard drive, external storage capability, ATSC tuners, etc.

And then there's the wife factor - Comcast w/ Tivo just makes it harder to justify getting a Series3 to the wife - why do we need that when the Comcast box can (probably) do all of the same things?

That said, you probably would save per month costs with a Series3, but with a much higher initial cost. Check out these numbers, with a made-up number for the digital cable package, which would be a constant anyway, and two DVRs. I'm also assuming the $15/mo per DVR is true. I'm also guessing at the Tivo numbers, so I give two scenarios, bundled (as they are doing now with the S2 and S2 DT) and standalone.

-----

Comcast Only

Comcast w/ Tivo Box price: $0

Comcast Digital Package w/ HD: $60
Monthly Box Rental fee (x2): $10
Monthly Tivo Service fee (x2): $30
Monthly Remote rental fee (x2): $3

Initial Cost: $0
Total Monthly Cost: $103

-----

Series3 (bundled)

S3 Tivo Box price (bundled): ~$300??

Comcast Digital Package w/ HD: $60
Monthly Box Rental fee: $0
Monthly Tivo Service fee ($19.95 first box, $7 each additional): ~$27
Monthly Remote rental fee: $0

Initial Cost: $600
Total Monthly Cost: $87

-----

Series3 Standalone

S3 Tivo Box price: ~$800

Comcast Digital Package w/ HD: $60
Monthly Box Rental fee: $0
Monthly Tivo Service fee ($19.95 first box, $7 each additional): ~$27
Monthly Remote rental fee: $0

Initial Cost: $1600!!!!
Total Monthly Cost: $87

-----

I hope the numbers are accurate enough to get my point across. Without Tivo bundling the box price into the montly service fee (for which there are discounts for pre-paying), it becomes ridiculously expensive initially, just to save less that $20 / mo. At $800 each, it would take you more than 6 years to recoup those costs.

Heck, open an ING savings account and the interest you earn on the $1600 (est price of two S3's) can pay the extra $20 each month. Add to that the fact that with Cable you pretty much have unlimited lifetime warranty on equipment (you can bet that Tivo will NOT do that) and the price doesn't really seem that bad, eh?

It's important to note that if you're going with OTA TV and no cable at all, the S3's ATSC ability trumps cable in a significant way - high initial cost but no monthly fees outside of the Tivo service fee. And if HD isn't an issue, the $30 for an S2 DT can't be beaten.


----------



## AndrewFischer

classicX said:


> I don't understand why I keep hearing people say that the box is dumb because it asks you if you want to switch tuners. I had a DirecTivo box a little more than a year ago and it did the same thing. Why is this such a big issue?


*iGuide doesn't ask if you want to switch tuners.* It warns you if change the channel you will stop the recording in progress. But wait, there's more. The Comcast remote doesn't have a swap tuners button. You need to search the internet for the undocumented swap tuner codes and reprogram your remote.

Unless you've been reading the message boards you wouldn't even know that tuner swapping was possible.

It's hard to understand just how much better TiVo is unless you've used both.


----------



## classicX

I see now. That's pretty bad... I have an SA 8300HD DVR and haven't used the motorola box. The SA does ask if you want to switch tuners.

Good thing I have a harmony remote, I can just map the swap \o/


----------



## AndrewFischer

> I hope the numbers are accurate enough to get my point across.


In some cases you are going to need two cable cards in the S3. Comcast is going to charge you for a second HD-TV. I think the second card costs $9.80 a month in my area. They aren't set up for a single box using two cable cards. Hopefully they will redo their pricing for Series 3 customers.

We don't know what features will be supported on the DCT-x412. 
Rumors say the Series 3 wont support On-Demand.

TiVo on the DCT x412 is due out before or at the same time as the Series 3. If they meet the announced time table, we can try TiVo on the DCT 6412 before the S3 is out.


----------



## classicX

AndrewFischer said:


> Comcast is going to charge you for a second HD-TV. I think the second card costs $9.80 a month in my area. They aren't set up for a single box using two cable cards. Hopefully they will redo their pricing for Series 3 customers.


Comcast in the area where I'm moving (NJ) doesn't charge at all for any cablecards. I assumed this was true everywhere. My apologies.


----------



## shepler76

AndrewFischer said:


> In some cases you are going to need two cable cards in the S3. Comcast is going to charge you for a second HD-TV.


Not is they have Multistream CC


----------



## fastep

formulaben said:


> How many "keyword" searches has your Motorola missed? Oh yeah, it can't do that...no wonder your reliability rate is so good.


the moto flys through title searches and the sony handles keyword searches (for the very few times I use that). Both are much faster than hdtivo and also allow for the current show to continue playing while I search.

I will never understand why tivo makes you leave your program to do searches and set recordings. With hdtivo having my show continue would have been a welcomed RELIEF as I could have watched a show instead of aimlessly staring at "please wait" for what seemed like HOURS to record one lousy season pass. Very ridiculous.

To be done with that nonsense is worth more to me than doing perfect keyword searches although I got that covered as well. Not to mention more HD channels and better PQ. And no - I have never missed a recording either.


----------



## formulaben

AndrewFischer said:


> But wait, there's more. The Comcast remote doesn't have a swap tuners button. You need to search the internet for the undocumented swap tuner codes and reprogram your remote.
> 
> Unless you've been reading the message boards you wouldn't even know that tuner swapping was possible.
> 
> It's hard to understand just how much better TiVo is unless you've used both.


What model of Comcast DVR are you referring to? Mine has a dedicated "SWAP" button...and no, I didn't have to go here to find that out. The DVR demo on the ON DEMAND shows how it works.


----------



## formulaben

Oh, back to the subject at hand...anyone have any new news regarding the Comcast Tivo Box?!


----------



## raven27

What about Seattle?


----------



## cheer

raven27 said:


> What about Seattle?


It's a pleasant city. Bit rainy, tho.

--chris


----------



## raven27

cheer said:


> It's a pleasant city. Bit rainy, tho.
> 
> --chris


 Not that bad.It rains more in Boston.I like Northwest.


----------



## stujac

I've never been to Seattle but here's hoping the Tivo Comcast box comes out much sooner than later. I've about had it with the 6412.


----------



## cheer

raven27 said:


> Not that bad.It rains more in Boston.I like Northwest.


I do too -- I was just pandering to the stereotype.

Personally I'd love to move to Seattle, or somewhere in the Pacific Northwest. In fact, I may just do that once the kids are off to college in a few years.


----------



## AndrewFischer

formulaben said:


> What model of Comcast DVR are you referring to? Mine has a dedicated "SWAP" button...and no, I didn't have to go here to find that out. The DVR demo on the ON DEMAND shows how it works.


Motorola DCT-6412 with iGuide. Not all of the Comcast remotes have a swap button. I will try and get the remote's model number and post a photo tonight.

June 2006 is almost here


----------



## formulaben

Hmm, I have the 3412 and was told that it is the same box, but just without analog tuners. Although it took me far too long to get my "season passes" set up (and no keyword search...UGH!!) I'm finally no longer in danger of going postal, as was the case a couple days ago. At least I think I can make it to December now...if I must.


----------



## AndrewFischer

Here is a picture of the remote that came with our DCT6412. No swap button.


I wonder which remote the TiVo team is using for the port?


----------



## SullyND

AndrewFischer said:


> I wonder which remote the TiVo team is using for the port?


There is always a possibility of a new peanut.


----------



## amjustice

I currently have comcast cable and I would totally get one of these boxes until the Series 3 comes out. However, once that arrives I think that will be the better deal. I think the Comcast box is meant more for the market of the general population however the Series 3 will be more geared towards high end AV people and general Tivo enthusiasts. I doubt the comcast box will offer a lot of the features most of us have come to know and love which I could do without on my HD TV for a few months but I am sick and tired of not being able to record HD TV and I refuse to go with anything other then a comcast or S3 solution.


----------



## AndrewFischer

SpankyInChicago said:


> Well June is fast approaching and still nothing official. Looks like maybe another rumor gone bad. Although I suppose June 30th is still June.


----------



## AbMagFab

AndrewFischer said:


>


Based on what?


----------



## stim

AndrewFischer said:


>


I have a feeling that you are going to be disappointed on June 30th.


----------



## AndrewFischer

AbMagFab said:


> Based on what?


Comcast press release says TiVo service June 2006.


----------



## AbMagFab

AndrewFischer said:


> Comcast press release says TiVo service June 2006.


Can you point to the press release? If you mean the one from a year ago, that's a little out of date.


----------



## dt_dc

AndrewFischer said:


> Comcast press release says TiVo service June 2006.





AbMagFab said:


> Can you point to the press release? If you mean the one from a year ago, that's a little out of date.


Comcast's press release from last year only says "mid-to-late 2006". It also only says the service is "expected to be available" ... which certainly leaves alot of wiggle room.


> Under the terms of the agreement, Comcast and TiVo will work together to develop a version of the TiVo service that will be made available on Comcast's current primary DVR platform. New software will be developed by TiVo and will be incorporated into Comcast's existing network platforms. The new service will be marketed with the TiVo brand, and is expected to be available on Comcast's DVR products in a majority of Comcast markets in mid-to-late 2006.
> 
> http://www.cmcsk.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=147565&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=685606&highlight=


----------



## AbMagFab

So again, where's the June 2006 Press Release referenced above?


----------



## Carfan

When I recently swapped my Motorola 6412 Series I for a new 3412, I asked about when the TiVo system may be available.

The fellow behind the counter told me they would not make that available until the acquisition of TiVo is complete.

I suspect that in internal memo or some office scuttlebutt got severely distorted resulting in that response.


----------



## AbMagFab

Well, that certainly would be interesting...


----------



## cheer

AbMagFab said:


> Well, that certainly would be interesting...


But unlikely in the extreme...even if Comcast and Tivo were discussing such a thing, a CSR would have no idea. Not to mention that if they want to wait until the acquisition is complete...well, that can take a long time. Months.

--chris


----------



## MichaelK

AndrewFischer said:


> In some cases you are going to need two cable cards in the S3. Comcast is going to charge you for a second HD-TV. I think the second card costs $9.80 a month in my area. They aren't set up for a single box using two cable cards. Hopefully they will redo their pricing for Series 3 customers.
> 
> We don't know what features will be supported on the DCT-x412.
> Rumors say the Series 3 wont support On-Demand.
> 
> TiVo on the DCT x412 is due out before or at the same time as the Series 3. If they meet the announced time table, we can try TiVo on the DCT 6412 before the S3 is out.


cable labs has said the m-cards (allowing multiple streams on one card) should be deployed widely by mid year. Seems all the big players will have them in time before TiVo gets the S3 out. At this point, it's lookign like the second cable card slot was for insurance and wont likleghy be needed by many (possible back woods mom and pop cable companies will have only single stream cards for a while)


----------



## hiker

So will the m-cards also do VOD, guide data and PPV?


----------



## shepler76

hiker said:


> So will the m-cards also do VOD, guide data and PPV?


No, You need to wait until CC 2.0. Multistream is still 1.0


----------



## AndrewFischer

AbMagFab said:


> Can you point to the press release? If you mean the one from a year ago, that's a little out of date.


Sorry, I miss remembed the contents of that PR. It is old...

Based on the first post in this thread then. I have no inside information. If I did, I wouldn't be posting in this thread.









Trick or Treat???


----------



## MichaelK

shepler76 said:


> No, You need to wait until CC 2.0. Multistream is still 1.0


Actually if I understand correctly the cards are directionally agnostic. So both the single stream and multistream cards can be used in one way OR two way devices. So the cards themselves will be mature with the M-card.

The device you put the card in (the host) is the deciding factor if you will get one way or 2 way services. There is no final standard for what makes a 2-way host. Off the top of my head it must the only extra hardware required in the current draft standard is firewire, and a docsis (sp?) cable modem. And currently the cable people are demanding that the boxes will run whatever software the cable company slams down the pipe. So if you press guide on the dvr remote then you will see the cable companys guide. The consumer electronics companies are apparently balking at that provision.

It would SEEMS that the series 3 tivo will NOT be 2-way. It was only certified by the cable people as a one way device and it appears that it wont have firewire or a docsis modem.

So likely no VOD or PPVs ordered through the remote on the series 3.


----------



## hiker

MichaelK said:


> ...
> It would SEEMS that the series 3 tivo will NOT be 2-way. It was only certified by the cable people as a one way device and it appears that it wont have firewire or a docsis modem.
> 
> So likely no VOD or PPVs ordered through the remote on the series 3.


If true, that sucks and the S3 would not interest me.


----------



## shepler76

That is correct! That is old news


----------



## yunlin12

Any guesses on Comcast turning on the SATA support for Tivo in DTC-6412 phase III boxes? What was Motorola thinking? only 120GB for HD?


----------



## Oknarf

MichaelK said:


> ...So likely no VOD or PPVs ordered through the remote on the series 3.


Through your cable service. this limitation wouldn't prevent the use of other services similar to Movielink, would it?


----------



## AndrewFischer

yunlin12 said:


> Any guesses on Comcast turning on the SATA support for Tivo in DTC-6412 phase III boxes? What was Motorola thinking? only 120GB for HD?


I'd guess they won't. Comcast won't want to provide customer support it. They also don't want to deal with potential damage, however unlikely, from connecting 3rd party devices to their DCT.


----------



## Walter Lambert

From scanpa on the AVS Forum regarding Comcast Tivo: "...they have started to upgrade systems to operate Both the new IGUIDE & TiVo Software at my Headend. Late July is the current date for both to be available...."


----------



## bugmeno

SpankyInChicago said:


> I was in this past weekend talking with the custom install manager at Abt Electronics and he stated that, according to his Comcast rep, Comcast (Chicago area) will be offering their Motorola DVR platform with the Tivo software by June. The regular DVR price will be $4.99 per month and the Tivo DVR price will be $14.99 per month. This is per box.
> 
> I have no reason to believe the custom install manager to be misinformed, and those familiar with Abt (either locally or over the Internet) know how huge they are. I wouldn't imagine the Comcast rep telling Abt info that was inaccurate.
> 
> Take it with the rest of the rumors you hear.


http://okaygood.com/index.cgi?okay=get_topic&topic_id=2467900


----------



## MichaelK

Oknarf said:


> Through your cable service. this limitation wouldn't prevent the use of other services similar to Movielink, would it?


well- if tivo were to make a deal with movielink than yes it would work.

Basically with a series 3 you need to give up PPV and VOD from your cable company but you can get any PPV or VOD that Tivo might offer.

Tivo could provide tons more content becasue they could hook up with many vendors- movilink, blockbuster, netflix, etc. But currently Tivo really has nothing even remotely resembling cable PPV or VOD. The hardware could do it I think, especially with MPEG4 playback said to be in the Series 3 b ut right now there just isn't any service in place to take advantage of it.


----------



## chris_h

MichaelK said:


> The hardware could do it I think, especially with MPEG4 playback said to be in the Series 3 b ut right now there just isn't any service in place to take advantage of it.


Not that I don't beleive you, but do you have any links to an official anouncement (or even an unofficial one) that says the series 3 will have mpeg4 decoding? I looked at the tivo site, but they do not even mention the series 3 there, and there is no search function. Thanks.


----------



## AndrewFischer

Walter Lambert said:


> From scanpa on the AVS Forum regarding Comcast Tivo: "...they have started to upgrade systems to operate Both the new IGUIDE & TiVo Software at my Headend. Late July is the current date for both to be available...."


Would you post a link to that thread please? AVS Forum is huge...

We had the iGuide update for one day, then our box reverted to the old version. I'm guessing someone made an error and sent a test version down to my box. I had no idea that we'd gotten it before an official rollout. I wish I had thought to take some photos.


----------



## jautor

Found the post... no more info, though...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7712852&&#post7712852

Jeff


----------



## Walter Lambert

On the avsforum, scanpa is a helpful, reliable, and valuable contributor pertaining to all things COMCAST. He lives in south central Pennsylvania. Rather than a simultaneous national update, Comcast may well roll out the Tivo upgrade over several weeks or months, and the changes that he notes in the headend systems in his area may not exactly match similar headend changes in other regions of the country. Scanpa, however, has a reputation for good solid information, and his prediction of a late July roll out of Tivo/Comcast seems realistic.


----------



## Walter Lambert

Most recent scanpa comment on Comcast/Tivo 
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7736152&&#post7736152

In addition, scanpa has set up a new topic on the avsforum on pending Comcast/Tivo update
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=682350


----------



## SpankyInChicago

SpankyInChicago said:


> I was in this past weekend talking with the custom install manager at Abt Electronics and he stated that, according to his Comcast rep, Comcast (Chicago area) will be offering their Motorola DVR platform with the Tivo software by June. The regular DVR price will be $4.99 per month and the Tivo DVR price will be $14.99 per month. This is per box.
> 
> I have no reason to believe the custom install manager to be misinformed, and those familiar with Abt (either locally or over the Internet) know how huge they are. I wouldn't imagine the Comcast rep telling Abt info that was inaccurate.
> 
> Take it with the rest of the rumors you hear.


Talked to this guy again this past weekend and now he is saying Comcast is telling him 4th quarter.

Oh well. We shall see. I guess at that point it might not matter if the Series III is out.


----------



## Walter Lambert

Another Estimate? http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7859472&&#post7859472


----------

