# How Much Longer



## cancun64 (Feb 19, 2006)

I am sure that somebody can tell me how much longer will I recieve HD channels with my Tivo HD reciver.
Also if and when will DTV be releasing a new Tivo HD reciever ?

Thanks in advance !


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## SpiritualPoet (Jan 14, 2007)

How much longer? As long as the technology doesn't change -- unless you have hardware failure or a software glitch.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

SpiritualPoet said:


> How much longer? As long as the technology doesn't change -- unless you have hardware failure or a software glitch.


That's the point, the technology is changing, as DirecTV has been migrating MPEG2 channels to MPEG4, and dropping the MPEG2 feed entirely. Showtime, UHD, and HDNet Movies just got dropped. As far as the rest? April is the date being tossed around on a few forums.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

cancun64 said:


> .....
> Also if and when will DTV be releasing a new Tivo HD reciever ?
> 
> Thanks in advance !


"2010" is the latest word from the Tivo folks.


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## BOBCAT (Nov 28, 2002)

Wonder why TiVo is dragging their feet on getting the new box out? They already have the series 3 Mpeg4 box out, all they need to do is put the D* front end on it. Why should that take 1-1/2 years to get out? They are missing the boat on selling the new box to the people that will be loosing the HD channels from their HD TiVo, and want to replace it with the New HD Mpeg4 D*TiVo box, not the D* "wonder box", (wonder why they didn't put duel buffers in, Better menu system, keep the over the air receiver in all of the new boxes, better remote control,..... ) (Fill in the blanks with your items) If D* had bothered to have a few people here on this fourm Beta test there 1st replacement box and make suggestions, they might have had a box that people could live with. Oh Well, another example of short vision planning they seem to have.


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

There has been no statement by either side since the July-December 2009 announcement last September.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

As long as your HR10 is working, you'll be able to get OTA.


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## kanderna (Nov 26, 2003)

BOBCAT said:


> Wonder why TiVo is dragging their feet on getting the new box out? They already have the series 3 Mpeg4 box out, all they need to do is put the D* front end on it. Why should that take 1-1/2 years to get out? They are missing the boat on selling the new box to the people that will be loosing the HD channels from their HD TiVo, and want to replace it with the New HD Mpeg4 D*TiVo box, not the D* "wonder box", (wonder why they didn't put duel buffers in, Better menu system, keep the over the air receiver in all of the new boxes, better remote control,..... ) (Fill in the blanks with your items) If D* had bothered to have a few people here on this fourm Beta test there 1st replacement box and make suggestions, they might have had a box that people could live with. Oh Well, another example of short vision planning they seem to have.


Who knows. The technical/physical side of things may be the least of the problems. I'm guessing (and I want to stress the word 'guess') since neither party has said anything since the announcement, that there are some financial/contract issues yet to be ironed out that have hit a snag. Or more simply, one of them took a look at their financial situation and needed to kill some projects. Again, all conjecture at this point.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Cudahy said:


> There has been no statement by either side since the July-December 2009 announcement last September.


Actually there has been, keep up. 

Tom Rogers (Tivo CEO) said at the Citi conference it was delayed until 2010 and at CES they refused to talk about it after talking about it at every turn the past few months. So it has been delayed at the least....


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## BOBCAT (Nov 28, 2002)

If Directv/TiVo has hit a snag on production of the new HD TiVo box, then they should somehow find a way to keep the Mpeg2 stream going a little longer. Why should all of the current HD TiVo owners pay the price of loosing the few HD channels they can receive due to Directv's fatal delay in getting the new box into production? Why don't they extend the lease on the 110' transponders a little longer to keep the HD service going until the new box comes out? Their lack of care and sensitivity towards all of the current HD TiVo owners shows that customer service is not their top priority in their business plan, rather they have a "take it or leave it" attitude. Don't get me wrong, I'm for the change to Mpeg4, but make it a smooth transition, have the new HD TiVo box available before cutting off the Mpeg2 stream, rather than having to install the D* box, then having to send it to the land fill and installing the new HD TiVo box when it comes out!


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

BOBCAT said:


> If Directv/TiVo has hit a snag on production of the new HD TiVo box, then they should somehow find a way to keep the Mpeg2 stream going a little longer. Why should all of the current HD TiVo owners pay the price of loosing the few HD channels they can receive due to Directv's fatal delay in getting the new box into production? Why don't they extend the lease on the 110' transponders a little longer to keep the HD service going until the new box comes out? Their lack of care and sensitivity towards all of the current HD TiVo owners shows that customer service is not their top priority in their business plan, rather they have a "take it or leave it" attitude. Don't get me wrong, I'm for the change to Mpeg4, but make it a smooth transition, have the new HD TiVo box available before cutting off the Mpeg2 stream, rather than having to install the D* box, then having to send it to the land fill and installing the new HD TiVo box when it comes out!


Ummm, guess you don't realize that there aren't many HD Tivo (HR10) owners left. There were only 250K at max a few years ago. Last estimate I saw was perhaps 50K left in service and that was nearly a year ago. Tivo has nothing to do with their move to MPEG4. It's all about being able to deliver more channels at better quality. Just so happens the HR10 can't decode MPEG4 (nor see the new sats).

And it's been a smooth transition. You've had over 3 years to upgrade or at least get an MPEG4 receiver. DirecTV has been practically begging anyone left to get a new receiver for free. If you or others have ignored it then well....
Also realize that the MPEG2 HD channels would have been shut down by last summer if not for MDU's not having swapped out the dishes in time. So they are well behind the planned shut down date as it is.

So spend a ton of money and delay plans for 50K out of 18+ million subs? Errr, not really worth it.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

shibby191 said:


> There were only 250K at max a few years ago.


That's the highest estimate I've ever seen. I was under the impression they never made more than 100K of them total. I would guess far less than 10K of them are still in use today. And most of those have an HR20 on the shelf right next to it.


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## BOBCAT (Nov 28, 2002)

shibby191, you Assume a lot. As a mater of fact, I have had 2 HR20's sense they came out. Also had 4 HR10's running at the same time. Have sense turned down 2 of the HR10's. I only use the HR20's when I have a recording conflict, otherwise they stay off. Even being idle, I have had to have D* replace both of them because they have failed and it was not a hard drive issue. My HD TiVo's on the other hand have been running ever sense I turned them up. Have only done several hard drive upgrades in the past years for more capacity. 
Subscribers are important no mater how many there are. My main complaint is that they are delaying the release of the new HD TiVo, and forcing the HD Tivo owners over to there, for the most part, an inferior and electronically unreliable DVR. Also they won't provide any view of when, and now from what I hear, If they are going to go through with bringing out the HD TiVo Mpeg4 box, and also not wanting to talk about them at CES as you pointed out. Also when the HR10 came out, there were a lot less subscribers then so percentage wise there were a lot of TiVo owners. 
Like I said on my previous post, IF Directv allowed some select people on this forum beta test there new box, and make suggestions for improvement of functionality, they might have had more acceptance of there DVR. Also from what I have read, the reason that they moved away from TiVo in the 1st place is that they didn't want to pay TiVo the $5 per subscriber per month. I would have been glad to pay the extra $5 a month to keep D* associated with TiVo.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

BOBCAT said:


> shibby191, you Assume a lot.


I don't assume much. These numbers have been talked about in various investor calls over the years and/or posted by those "in the know" on other forums. But believe what you want.



> My main complaint is that they are delaying the release of the new HD TiVo, and forcing the HD Tivo owners over to there, for the most part, an inferior and electronically unreliable DVR. Also they won't provide any view of when, and now from what I hear, If they are going to go through with bringing out the HD TiVo Mpeg4 box, and also not wanting to talk about them at CES as you pointed out. Also when the HR10 came out, there were a lot less subscribers then so percentage wise there were a lot of TiVo owners.


I think you might not remember the plan for MPEG2 shutdown. The MPEG2 channels were supposed to be shut down long before the new HD DirecTivo was announced near the end of last summer. A year ago was the target but not enough of the MDU's (apartments/condos) had swapped to the new 5 LNB dish so there was a delay. This was all documented on Satguys and DBSTalk. The LA DNS was delayed and finally went to MPEG4 early last spring BUT stayed on 101 because of the dish issue. Then the plan was delayed until fall for the national MPEG2 channels but once again the MDUs were behind. So finally we are to today where enough MDUs finally have upgraded that they can *finally* shutdown the MPEG2 HD channels, well over a year behind schedule. Again, it's all documented in various threads out there (not here) over the past year. I don't "assume" anything.

So those with HR10's are *lucky* to have kept the HD channels this long. They *should* have been shut down a year ago but were delayed as described above. The availability of a new Tivo unit has nothing to do with it.

Also you are assuming that DirecTV has much of anything to do with the new Tivo unit. They don't. It's all Tivo's baby and will be under their beta program. This is why Tivo has been touting it like crazy since last summer, to drum up "good feelings" that they are moving forward. DirecTV? Not a peep since the press release over 6 months ago. It's not really all that high on their list.
Now we get Tivo that says it's delayed until 2010. And Tivo won't even talk about it at CES. DirecTV? They weren't even at CES and no comment from there isn't any surprise, they haven't talked about it anyway.

Now couple that with the fact that DirecTV has canceled all but their most critical capital projects due to the economy (which may or may not explain the Tivo delay, who knows). Since Tivo is the force behind this I doubt it that much but you never know.

But again, this has nothing to do with the shut down of the MPEG2 HD which was scheduled to be completed last year. They have to get it shut down so they can get locals off 72.5 before the lease runs out, get more HD channels launched before more people get cranky about falling behind, and also most likely moving international off 95 so they can get rid of that slot. Bandwidth doesn't just magically appear and they get it from getting rid of the MPEG2 HD channels.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

HiDefGator said:


> That's the highest estimate I've ever seen. I was under the impression they never made more than 100K of them total. I would guess far less than 10K of them are still in use today. And most of those have an HR20 on the shelf right next to it.


I always thought around 100K as well but Earl had mentioned 250K a few times back in the day. It's probably somewhere in between. In either case it's a *very* low number. Especially when nearly 6 million DirecTV subs now have HD, most with the HD DVR (HR2x). It really puts the number of HR10's in service in perspective. There might be as many Ultimate TV's left.


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## BOBCAT (Nov 28, 2002)

shibby191, I guess I should have qualified my statement "you Assume a lot" I was referring to the fact that I have had the HR20's sense they came out, as you implied that I have had 3 years to upgrade to the new box.. Also, I should have been a little clearer on CES and TiVo not commenting. 
Also, I do know that they wanted to end the Mpeg2 stream some time ago, and all of the issues as to why they didn't. I was glad for the delay.
Even if they do shut down the HD Mpeg 2 stream, I will use my HR10 for most of my viewing and all of my local OTA HD channels, But will have to fire up the HR20 to see my programs on HDNet, HDTH and HDNM. 
All in All, you have made very good and correct points. It has been fun stirring up a discussion about this with you:up:. 
But I still stand by my statement that: 
IF Directv allowed some select people on this forum beta test there new box, and make suggestions for improvement of functionality, they might have had more acceptance of there DVR.
Also I know that new subscribers that never have had an HD TiVo in their home may not understand how TiVo owners like myself feel about loosing the full function and use of the HR10. 
Also, unlike the HR20, the feel of the TiVo remote control that you don't even need to look at to control the TiVo, Duel buffers to be able to switch between 2 sports games to see the current score, then be able to go back to the main program and back up to where you left off. The great menu system, Thumb's up/down, Suggestions recorded, the ease of navigating through all of the menu systems. TiVo was human engineered for ease of use. The HR2X just hasn't come close to being comfortable to use or functional in many ways.
You may be as passionate about your HR2X as I am about my HR10's.
Guess the bottom line is when you "hit play", they both do the same thing and all of the other issues fall into the background.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

BOBCAT said:


> You may be as passionate about your HR2X as I am about my HR10's.
> Guess the bottom line is when you "hit play", they both do the same thing and all of the other issues fall into the background.


Actually I'm not passionate about the HR2x. Could care less what the GUI is of my DVR, so long as it works and records my shows and I can play them back. I had my first of several Tivo's way back in 2000. Got my first HR20 the first month it was available. Both Tivo and HR2x work fine for me and I could care less if DirecTV goes to all Tivo in the future or never has a Tivo again. Can I watch my programs and hit play is all I'm about as you say.


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## WaldorfSalad (Nov 28, 2008)

kaszeta said:


> That's the point, the technology is changing, as DirecTV has been migrating MPEG2 channels to MPEG4, and dropping the MPEG2 feed entirely. Showtime, UHD, and HDNet Movies just got dropped. As far as the rest? April is the date being tossed around on a few forums.


Showtime, UHD, and HDNet Movies have NOT yet been dropped, though they do currently have an annoying two minute crawl every hour in oversized text announcing that this will happen, but no date provided.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Feb 25th is the latest word.


WaldorfSalad said:


> Showtime, UHD, and HDNet Movies have NOT yet been dropped, though they do currently have an annoying two minute crawl every hour in oversized text announcing that this will happen, but no date provided.


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## stefanis (Dec 3, 2007)

shibby191 said:


> Actually I'm not passionate about the HR2x. Could care less what the GUI is of my DVR, so long as it works and records my shows and I can play them back. I had my first of several Tivo's way back in 2000. Got my first HR20 the first month it was available. Both Tivo and HR2x work fine for me and I could care less if DirecTV goes to all Tivo in the future or never has a Tivo again. Can I watch my programs and hit play is all I'm about as you say.


Try to create more than 50 auto records or new shows off the networks and reruns off TNT/TBS etc. I was offered a free upgrade about a year ago. Glad I accepted the forced Free Professional Install. The damn thing was DOA. They had another on the truck but it crashed and rebooted 6 times the first night. I started transfering my Tivo Season passes to DVR+ auto records and when I hit 50 it told me that I couldn't do any more. That was straw number one. I'd just gotten into Law and Order and was watching re-runs off of TBS and the new ones off of NBC. Couldn't set up one auto record to pull from the two stations, and couldn't set up two autorecords, one for each station. Simply refused to record the second instance. That was straw number two. The final straw was when my wife told me to get rid of it. The wife always wins. If she can't figure out how to make it work then it will be a nightmare for techsupport over here.


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

incog-neato said:


> Feb 25th is the latest word.


If you go to channel 77 as directed in the ticker, it says to try 537 and the other channels and if you don't see them, then you "need new equipment" to see them after 25 February. Sucks IMHO, but thankfully, I have the HR20-100 for the future. Just hate that I probably now have to finally break down and move the input for the dual tuner on my Tivo over to the DVR and lose having dual live buffers. :down:

But I've seen several conflicts with network shows in the next couple of weeks, so was already considering it. The OTA signal into the Tivo has never been stable enough to rely on it. Next week, Chuck and Heroes is back and Heroes conflicts with 24. Also, Lost and Life next week...

Cheryl


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

stefanis said:


> Try to create more than 50 auto records


I don't have a problem with that, I don't watch that much TV. But certainly could be for others. Look, there are pros and cons to both platforms. But the UI to me is unimportant which is what my post was about.



> I'd just gotten into Law and Order and was watching re-runs off of TBS and the new ones off of NBC. Couldn't set up one auto record to pull from the two stations, and couldn't set up two autorecords, one for each station.


This is actually quite easy to do with the boolean search terms. DBSTalk has a pretty long thread on how to use this feature. But I only post this for others since you don't have it anymore.

Good luck and have fun.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

stefanis said:


> Try to create more than 50 auto records...


The limit may be arbitrary, or it may be that the system is unreliable over that number. Actually, more than 50 auto-records all but implies that you are probably trying to cram too many records into one DVR and that there will be enough conflicts to create a point of diminishing returns for reliability. Either way, true software limitation or not, it unfortunately creates the perception, earned or not, of the HR2x being inferior to other DVRs. The HR2x has enough image problems without that. Tivo was a hard act to follow. On the other hand, my HR2x's are currently much more reliable than my HR10's have become.


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## Scott Corbett (May 29, 2003)

shibby191 said:


> You've had over 3 years to upgrade or at least get an MPEG4 receiver. DirecTV has been practically begging anyone left to get a new receiver for free.


Cost me $199 plus a two year obligation, and that was after speaking to a supervisor, first offer was $299. This was for an HR20.

I have been a high level subscriber since 1994.


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