# MoCA Mini Question



## GumboChief (Aug 27, 2004)

Please advise:

Roamio Plus connected via Ethernet for networking & coax for cable input.
Mini plugged into the coax (no Ethernet)

Would this work? Or would I need to buy a $50 MoCA bridge for the Mini?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

That will work. You need to enable the MoCa bridge feature in the Roamio networking settings.


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## GumboChief (Aug 27, 2004)

Thank you Dan, because the person on Tivo tech support told me I would need a MoCA bridge for the Mini. Luckily I could tell she did not have a clue, and came here to double check.


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## GumboChief (Aug 27, 2004)

Follow up question. Where else can I buy a MoCA Point of Entry filter?
The POE seems expensive on the Tivo site.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I bought one on eBay for $4 with free shipping.


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## GumboChief (Aug 27, 2004)

Thanks again.


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## atrunco (Jul 22, 2003)

I am trying to do the exact same thing but have found limited info on MoCA. What is the POE and do you need one? 
Thanks very much.


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## WRX09MD (Aug 25, 2013)

atrunco said:


> I am trying to do the exact same thing but have found limited info on MoCA. What is the POE and do you need one?
> Thanks very much.


Its a filter that blocks your moca signal from straying outside of your home to other homes. If your using Fios you dont need one.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=TYUmX0tS6uiI0_l7cAZcWw&bvm=bv.52434380,d.dmg


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## nealm (Jan 27, 2003)

Follow up question, I am likely moving from fios to xfinity. Currently, I have a Roamio Plus connected via coax and a mini connected via coax.

My understanding from other posts is that fios routers are moca enabled so that's why things are working now. If I move to xfinity, will I need to buy a moca bridge to install at the router? 

Thanks very much.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

nealm said:


> If I move to xfinity, will I need to buy a moca bridge to install at the router?


 If your Roamio is not sitting next to the router then yes, otherwise no.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

nealm said:


> Follow up question, I am likely moving from fios to xfinity. Currently, I have a Roamio Plus connected via coax and a mini connected via coax.
> 
> My understanding from other posts is that fios routers are moca enabled so that's why things are working now. If I move to xfinity, will I need to buy a moca bridge to install at the router?
> 
> Thanks very much.


If you have a verizon actiontec fios router (MI424WR), you can pair that with your xfinity cable modem and get moca through coax that way.


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## kherr (Aug 1, 2006)

moyekj said:


> If your Roamio is not sitting next to the router then yes, otherwise no.


I thought that the Romio just needs an ethernet connection (which would end up connected to the router via a switch), and not necessarily has to be connected directly to the router???


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## AdamNJ (Aug 22, 2013)

kherr said:


> I thought that the Romio just needs an ethernet connection (which would end up connected to the router via a switch), and not necessarily has to be connected directly to the router???


correct, yes an ethernet connection that eventually gets out to the internet


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

kherr said:


> I thought that the Romio just needs an ethernet connection (which would end up connected to the router via a switch), and not necessarily has to be connected directly to the router???


 Yes, any ethernet connection that can reach internet will do. My assumption usually though is that there are very limited ethernet connections if one is looking at MoCA, so most often the only ethernet available is at or near the router.


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## Tivo II Jack (Aug 10, 2003)

Not sure if this belongs here, but it was the closest I could find.

I have been a Tivo user since 1998 and still have all 6 Tivos I bought although only four are now connected. I have always had them networked. On 1/28/14 I set up my Roamio Pro and at the bottom of my Now Playing Lists each Tivo showed the other three units.

I just noticed that the Roamio no longer shows the two HD Series 3 nor the Toshiba Series 2 units. Those three units all show in each other's Now Playing lists, but none show the Roamio.

The Roamio was originally connected via wireless but 2 months (maybe longer) ago, I changed that and the Roamio is now connected via ethernet cable direct to my router.

Since I don't use those networked connections in the Now Playing lists all that much, it could be that the older Tivos and the Roamio lost their network connectivity when I added the ethernet but I am not sure.

How can I re-establish the network between the Roamio and the others?

I need to correct the above. The Roamio DOES list the three older Tivos in the Now Playing List but when I try to open any one of them I see this error message:

Can't Connect to XXXX DVR

The XXX DVR could not be found.

There may be a problem with your home network or the network connection on your Tivo boxes, or the DVR may have been unplugged.(C423)

For more info, visit tivo.com/help/C423

My networks are all functioning fine and the help for C423 was confusing at best.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Tivo II Jack said:


> Not sure if this belongs here, but it was the closest I could find.
> 
> I have been a Tivo user since 1998 and still have all 6 Tivos I bought although only four are now connected. I have always had them networked. On 1/28/14 I set up my Roamio Pro and at the bottom of my Now Playing Lists each Tivo showed the other three units.
> 
> ...


 Explain: *although only four are now connected. I have always had them networked* what the difference between connected and networked ?


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## Tivo II Jack (Aug 10, 2003)

lessd said:


> Explain: *although only four are now connected. I have always had them networked* what the difference between connected and networked ?


Connected = Plugged in/usable.

Networked = Included in my home network/Listed and accessible at the bottom of each other's Now Playing List.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Tivo II Jack said:


> Connected = Plugged in/usable.
> 
> Networked = Included in my home network/Listed and accessible at the bottom of each other's Now Playing List.


So when not plug in the networked has no meaning, and plug in without the network also has little use.
I think I understand, but I am no sure.


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## Tivo II Jack (Aug 10, 2003)

lessd said:


> So when not plug in the networked has no meaning, and plug in without the network also has little use.
> I think I understand, but I am no sure.


Now you are confusing me. Let me simplify. I own six Tivo units and two are in a closet somewhere. The other four are available for me to use at all times and on Stand By when not in use. I have had ALL my in use Tivos networked for years. In January when I got the Roamio Pro it was also added to my network and all Tivo units recognized each other even when in Stand By mode.

Some time after January, I changed my Roamio internet connection from wireless adaptor to an ethernet cable connected directly to my router.

Now I see that the 3 older units still see and recognize each other but do not see the Roamio. The Roamio sees the three older units but if I try to access any of them, I get the error message I posted yesterday in note 15: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10172678#post10172678

When I changed the Roamio from the wireless adaptor to the ethernet connection it appears the older units could no longer find the Roamio. The Roamio still sees the older units but no longer has any means of connecting to them.

I guess the real question is how do I set my network so Tivos using a wireless connection and the ethernet connected Roamio can see and communicate with each other?


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## lgnad (Feb 14, 2013)

Make sure that 'video sharing' is checked on all of your boxes under your account on tivo.com

Force connections in to tivo, let them process and then reboot all of the tivos, as well as ALL of your networking equipment... routers, switches, etc.

Try an new ethernet cable on the Roamio. 

hmmmm... the other three Tivos are all connecting wirelessly? ok, what is your network topology?


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## Tivo II Jack (Aug 10, 2003)

lgnad said:


> Make sure that 'video sharing' is checked on all of your boxes under your account on tivo.com
> 
> Force connections in to tivo, let them process and then reboot all of the tivos, as well as ALL of your networking equipment... routers, switches, etc.
> 
> ...


Video sharing was already checked for all boxes.

No idea what "force connections" means, but all the boxes, routers, modems, etc. have been rebooted multiple times since I noticed this problem.

The ethernet cable is brand new Cat 6 cable. (All are)

I assume you mean topology for the Roamio since the others are all working just fine between themselves.

Coaxial into Roamio, into Tuning Adapter (TA) and into brand new Netgear N600 WiFi Cable Modem Router. The modem calls itself a combination Modem/Router. I am using a Linksys router, the Netgear is being used as a modem only.

Ethernet Cat 6 from Modem to Roamio

USB from TA to Roamio

Hope that covers all.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

Tivo II Jack said:


> Hope that covers all.


Good information, but not quite all. A remaining question is how your wireless part of the network is setup.

From what you've said so far, it's very possible that your wireless router is setting up a separate local network from your wired connections - the wireless network then is forwarded to your wired network. That forwarding is fine for some purposes (like connecting to the internet) but not fine for other purposes like discovering other machines on your local network (since in this case you would have two local networks).

You can check this by looking at the IP address of each TiVo, found on the network connections page. It should look something like 192.168.1.xx (where the xx are other digits.) All the machines on the same local network will have the first 3 numbers be the same (in the example above, the 192, the 168, and the 1). If your Roamiio has a number different from the other machines, then this is the problem. What are your numbers?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Tivo II Jack said:


> No idea what "force connections" means, but all the boxes, routers, modems, etc. have been rebooted multiple times since I noticed this problem.
> .


Just force a connection to TiVo under settings-network in the TiVo menu. Also make sure your wireless network is not on some guest part of your router, my router has a guest option that I use when I have a guest in my home, it has a different password and can't see anything on my main network but goes out to the internet without any problems, but does use the same first 3 IP digits so one could not tell you were on my gust network unless you looked at the SSID as my guest SSID is *guest*, my main SSID is my name.


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## Tivo II Jack (Aug 10, 2003)

CrispyCritter said:


> All the machines on the same local network will have the first 3 numbers be the same (in the example above, the 192, the 168, and the 1). If your Roamiio has a number different from the other machines, then this is the problem. What are your numbers?


This has to be the greatest community help board in existence, I think you have nailed it. My three older boxes are all 192.168.*1*
with the last numbers being 101; 102 and 105.

The Roamio IP is 192.168.*0*.114

So what do I change and how do I change it?


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## Tivo II Jack (Aug 10, 2003)

lessd said:


> Just force a connection to TiVo under settings-network in the TiVo menu. Also make sure your wireless network is not on some guest part of your router, my router has a guest option that I use when I have a guest in my home, it has a different password and can't see anything on my main network but goes out to the internet without any problems, but does use the same first 3 IP digits so one could not tell you were on my gust network unless you looked at the SSID as my guest SSID is *guest*, my main SSID is my name.


Thanks, you obviously know what you are talking about, but I have found your responses difficult to follow or understand. I have never (intentionally) set up any guest network.

Anyway, looks like Crispy has pinpointed my problem here.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Tivo II Jack said:


> This has to be the greatest community help board in existence, I think you have nailed it. My three older boxes are all 192.168.*1*
> with the last numbers being 101; 102 and 105.
> 
> The Roamio IP is 192.168.*0*.114
> ...


I suggest you just set a static IP address. Just make sure you set it outside the range of dynamic IP addresses that your router assigns. Here are the instructions:

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/407


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## eboydog (Mar 24, 2006)

Are all your TiVos using dhcp or are they staticly assigned? Strange that the Roamio got a .0.xx address while the others had .1.xx 

If all get their ip from the router (dhcp) then they all should be on the same subnet.

Have you made config changes in your router? Might want to reboot the router and all TiVos.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I suggest you just set a static IP address. Just make sure you set it outside the range of dynamic IP addresses that your router assigns. Here are the instructions:
> 
> http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/407


Static IP address is not likely to be the answer at all. There are two separate networks being set up at the moment, and my guess is there will be no connectivity between the two. Giving the Roamio a IP address on the wireless network will leave the Roamio without any way to talk to anybody, because it's not on that network (if I'm guessing the setup correctly.)


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## Tivo II Jack (Aug 10, 2003)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I suggest you just set a static IP address. Just make sure you set it outside the range of dynamic IP addresses that your router assigns. Here are the instructions:
> 
> http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/407


Tried following those instructions at least a dozen times and hit a dead end every single time. I have used the network settings dozens of times in the past and never had a problem before. Now I keep getting the error message:

There is a problem with the router on your home network (N07).

As I said in an earlier note, my Netgear Modem says it is also a router but I have everything connected via my Linksys router.

The gateway address for Linksys router is 192.168.*1*.1 Netgear is 192.168.*0*.1

Not sure if this will make sense, but the three older Tivos show the Linksys address but the Roamio shows the Netgear address. Before replacing my old defective modem with the Netgear modem (and before changing the Roamio from wireless to ethernet) all worked fine.

I may need to redirect an ethernet connection because it may be that my current connections are causing the Roamio to use the router function of the Netgear modem while the older boxes are using the Linksys router.

As said, not sure the above makes sense because it hardly does to me and I wrote it.<g>


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## Tivo II Jack (Aug 10, 2003)

CrispyCritter said:


> Static IP address is not likely to be the answer at all. There are two separate networks being set up at the moment, and my guess is there will be no connectivity between the two. Giving the Roamio a IP address on the wireless network will leave the Roamio without any way to talk to anybody, because it's not on that network (if I'm guessing the setup correctly.)


Are we possibly talking about the same thing as in my previous confusing note?


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

eboydog said:


> Are all your TiVos using dhcp or are they staticly assigned? Strange that the Roamio got a .0.xx address while the others had .1.xx
> 
> If all get their ip from the router (dhcp) then they all should be on the same subnet.
> 
> Have you made config changes in your router? Might want to reboot the router and all TiVos.


My interpretation of the setup is that there are two routers and DHCP servers active - that the wireless router is separate from the router connected to the internet. That is a a perfectly reasonable way to set things up as long as you don't have a need for broadcast packets (packets that are sent to all machines on a single network). Unfortunately, discovering all the other TiVos on the local network via broadcast packets is precisely what is needed here.



TiVo II Jack said:


> This has to be the greatest community help board in existence, I think you have nailed it. My three older boxes are all 192.168.1
> with the last numbers being 101; 102 and 105.
> 
> The Roamio IP is 192.168.0.114
> ...


The network configuration needs to be changed. There are a couple of different ways to do it.
1. Method 1 - use the wireless router as the only router in the house. This assume that the wireless router has wired access as well. Network topology would be outside internet to your cable modem to your wireless router with ethernet cables to the rest of your house/network being plugged into the wireless router. Then the only network will be served by the wireless router (the other current router wouldn't be used). There may be some hardware obstacles to getting this to work. You will have to reboot your cable modem after connecting the wireless router to it.
2. Method 2. Software solution. Keep the wireless router and the other router both on the network like now, but change the wireless router functionality to be a bridge instead of a full router, and turn off the DHCP functionality of the wireless router. Most wireless routers, but not all, will have this ability. This is a more complicated solution for a novice than method 1.

Edit: we'll need more details about your current setup if you want to do anything other than Method 1 (and there may be good reason why Method 1 may not work for you). That would include model numbers of the routers involved and what exactly is plugged into what.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Tivo II Jack said:


> Thanks, you obviously know what you are talking about, but I have found your responses difficult to follow or understand. I have never (intentionally) set up any guest network.
> 
> Anyway, looks like Crispy has pinpointed my problem here.


I will try to make it simple, you have two networks working, one at 192.168.1.xxx the other at 192.168.0.xxx I have never heard of an IP address having a 0 in the 3rd spot, so your setup is out of my league, but normally one can't set a fixed IP using the 3rd number, only using the 4th number, your 3rd number being a 0 has me stumped so I will leave this problem to other network experts on this Forum.


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## Tivo II Jack (Aug 10, 2003)

CrispyCritter said:


> This is a more complicated solution for a novice than method 1.


I may well be a novice where Roamio is concerned (5 1/2 months) but not with computers or older Tivos. Been using computers for over 20 years and build my own machines from components. This Roamio is quite the opposite from other new things. Usually there is some dissatisfaction with new things until we get to know them. I thought Roamio was the cat's meow the minute I set it up but other than its speed and capacity I'm beginning to find more and more reasons to dislike it, especially some of the ridiculous changes made to various Tivo Central menus and remote button changes..

With each instruction I have followed so far, each has resulted in losses, no gains in solving this puzzle.



CrispyCritter said:


> Edit: we'll need more details about your current setup if you want to do anything other than Method 1 (and there may be good reason why Method 1 may not work for you). That would include model numbers of the routers involved and what exactly is plugged into what.


I thought I already posted that information. The modem/router is a Netgear N600 C3700 and the original router is a Linksys WRT54GL. As far as what is connected to what, give me a starting point.


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## Tivo II Jack (Aug 10, 2003)

lessd said:


> I have never heard of an IP address having a 0 in the 3rd spot, so your setup is out of my league.


I believe the third spot 0 is 100% a creation of the Netgear modem/router. I have been looking to see if I can disable the router function thereby forcing all network connections to go through my original Linksys WRT54GL router.

Right now, the only thing using that mystery 3rd spot 0 is my Roamio Pro. That came to be either when I switched the Roamio from wireless to ethernet or when I replaced my dead modem with the Netgear modem/router.

I am betting on the latter.


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## eboydog (Mar 24, 2006)

Sounds like the netgear router is running off the linksys router and you are running two IP networks .

What router is connected to your internet connection? 

What ever that is, that should be the network all your TiVos should be on. The 192.168.0.xx network is a proper subnet, it's just not commonly used, for example without going into a complete IP network course, the first three series of numbers in a home ip network should be the same. I for example use a unconventional ip net of 192.168.50.xx just because I like being different and for security as viral networked scripts commonly assume the standard 192.168.1.xx network, in some prior contract work I did for a security firm, I had to bring my work home and having a non-standard network was one of my security measures. 

Here goes a simple up network primer, bear with me as it not a rule on how such can be setup but rather how a typical home network is configured......

The 198.162.1.xxx network us what is called a class c ip private network. The xxx can be any number from 0 to 254 giving you a max number of ip adderess's of 254 different unique addreses. Class c subnet of this type typically use the subnet of 255.255.255.0, and typically the lowest numbered ip address on the network is assigned to the router such as 192.168.1.1 which when configuring a default gateway, that address of the router is typically used as the default gateway.

All addresses on that ip network will have a unique ip address, usually assigned by that router by "dhcp" so that manually assigning addresses isn't necessary. In a correctly said working network your TiVo might have a address of 192.168.1.12, your desktop pc might be 192.168.1.8. From that same router it may also be a wireless access point that provides a WiFi gateway to that same network thus Apple iPad could have an address of 192.168.1.20 AND by all this you have a single ip subnet network at home and all the devices and hosts are happily working cirrectly!


ok? 

Anyhow, your Roamio is throwing out the config error most likely as it's either not able access the default gateway or it's figuring out that it's not directly connected to the internet and there is a another net in between it and the real internet (that's a guess, I don't know if the networking is that advanced in the Roamio. When you assign default gateway, you might try a quick dirty trick in entering both routers address's 192.168.0.1 and 192.168.1.1 assuming those are the address es if the linksys and the netgear, the catch is I'm not sure if the Roamio network config will allow more than one gateway , might try the one or the other and see what happens if you can't enter both.

Your TiVo network is partially working because the older boxes are using a different, older method to discover other TiVo devices, the newer Roamio uses a different method that isn't allowing the newer type of TiVo discovery.

The fix is to get all your TiVos on the same network, be it the linksys or the netgear, physically you have a single network but technically, you are running two separate ip networks that are routed and connected to each other. Not knowing exactly your setup and what us necessary and what's not, you need to either remove one of them or reconfigure one router to act as a gateway instead of a router.

Forgive spelling errors or grammer as I'm using my phone to type this!


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## Tivo II Jack (Aug 10, 2003)

Right now my Linksys router has IP 102.168.1.1 and the Netgear modem/router has IP 192.168.0.1

I contacted Netgear and was told I had to change the Linksys Router IP to match the Netgear IP. I did that and went to one of the older Tivo series 3 to change the Network settings. That was a total waste of time that corrected nothing. I couldn't even download mail with that so I changed the IP back to 192.168.1.1

Strange was that in the Now Playing list the series 2 still showed but the other series 3 was gone. When I changed the IP back, the other series 3 was back. I have no idea why the older series 2 was available with both IP addresses.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

Tivo II Jack said:


> I thought I already posted that information. The modem/router is a Netgear N600 C3700 and the original router is a Linksys WRT54GL. As far as what is connected to what, give me a starting point.


Thanks (I was missing the Linksys).

Start from the outside. If you give rooms, it might help us avoid non-workable solutions. 
outside coax to Netgear?
Netgear to Roamio via wired connection (is the Roamio in the same room as the Netgear?)
...

The easiest solution is to go down to one router. You can get two router solutions working, but the learning curve for networks is steep.

Disabling the router function on the Linksys will work, but would be very difficult, if not impossible, on the Netgear since it is already routing from the outside world. You could change its IP address to a static address, turn off wireless routing, turn off DHCP service, change the Linksys address to a static address (it probably isn't one at the moment) and fool around with settings, and get things to work, but it will be painful.

On the LInksys, you would need to change it over to bridge mode. Lots of folks have done it (search for "WRT54GL bridge mode"), but it requires new firmware on the Linksys apparently and while much easier than on the Netgear, is still troublesome (look at the search results to figure out if you want to do it).

The best long-term solution, though it needs some grunt work now, is just to get rid of the Linksys router altogether, and use the wireless functionality on the Netgear. This requires setting up your wireless devices to connect to the Netgear; a pain, but it is a better, more modern wireless device with multiband capabilities.

Edit: I should add that a short-term workaround is simply to plug the ethernet cord of the Roamio into the Linksys router instead of the Netgear router. You'll be running two routers/networks which may cause you problems in the future (search for "double natting" for instance) or other problems now, but solves the immediate problem since the Roamio will then be on the same network as the other TiVos.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Tivo II Jack said:


> ...Coaxial into Roamio, into Tuning Adapter (TA) and into brand new Netgear N600 WiFi Cable Modem Router. The modem calls itself a combination Modem/Router. I am using a Linksys router, the Netgear is being used as a modem only.
> 
> Ethernet Cat 6 from *Modem to Roamio*
> 
> ...


This is the problem. It sounds like your wiring goes like this, starting from the cable coming into your house:


```
Incoming cable --> Netgear Cable Modem/Router -|-> Linksys Router --> Tivos on wireless
                                               |-> Roamio
```
In other words, the Linksys Router and the Roamio are both plugged into the Netgear Modem/Router.

The Netgear is creating one LAN (192.168.0.xxx) and the Linksys is creating another (192.168.1.xxx). You can see the wireless TiVos from the Roamio because they are communicating across the 192.168.0.xxx LAN when they connect to TiVo and so are in the routing table. The Roamio, being on the "WAN" side of the Linksys does not appear on the wireless LAN at all, and so is invisible to the wireless TiVos.

The solution is very simple, the Roamio must be connected to an ethernet port on the Linksys, not to one on the Netgear. If there are no open LAN ports on the Linksys, go to Best Buy, Staples or some other such store and buy an ethernet switch (100Mbps is fine, but a gigabit switch will also work fine). Remove one ethernet cable from the Linksys Router, attach it to the switch, attach the Roamio to the same switch and connect the switch to the now empty port on the Linksys router.

Once the Romio is connected to the Linksys, it will all work as expected.

While cascaded routers are usually a bad idea (because of problems like this and sometimes performance issues) if it is working for you there is no need to fix it.


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## Tivo II Jack (Aug 10, 2003)

I need to correct a comment I made to Crispy earlier. I am also pretty much a novice when it comes to networking computers so I thank you all for your patience and little by little getting me on the path to success. The final adjustment took just one moved ethernet cable.

My 4 active Tivos are named Roamio, Left, Right (both series 3) and Tosh (Toshiba Humax series 2 with built in DVD drive). Roamio is king, Left is rarely if ever used and Right is primarily used to record Mets and Jets games and little else. Tosh is in service only because without a cable card, it uses a TW cable box and allows me access to On Demand.

When I first replaced my dead modem with the Netgear modem/router Ihe Roamio was plugged into one of the Netgear's 2 ethernet ports with the .0.1 IP putting it on a different network than everything else.

The four ethernet ports on the Linksys were connected to 2 laptops, an Ooma phone and a Tivo USB/ethernet adapter for the Tosh Tivo.

Just now, I unplugged the Ooma ethernet cable from the Lynksys and replaced it with the Roamio cable. I then plugged the Ooma cable into the Netgear modem/router since it was not part of the network anyway. 

The red lights on the Ooma went berserk for a while I guess while it was dealing with the new IP address but all returned to blue and the phone works fine now.

I then checked all four Tivos and all are communicating with each other properly. Only one anomaly remains. At the end of the Now Playing list for the Tosh DVR, Left DVR is shown twice and I don't even really care about that.

How crass of me. I got so into typing all the details I forgot to say thanks to fellow New Yorker Diana who actually posted the advice to move the Roamio cable from Netgear to Linksys. Instant success.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Great!! I'm glad it's working!

It was quite clever to move the Ooma since you are correct - it doesn't need any connections to the rest of your network devices.

There are some potential issues down the road with cascaded routers. The issue is referred to as "Double NAT" where NAT stands for Network Address Translation. NAT is what allows all of your home devices to communicate over the internet through a single ISP assigned address. It also limits access to your local devices from the internet, and this is where "Double NAT" causes an issue. If you ever want to use GoToMyPC or out-of-home streaming from your TiVo to an iPad (for example) when you are travelling, you will need to eliminate one of the routers. But for general web browsing, email and the like, you should have no issues.

I'm a Yankees fan, but I'm married to a Mets fan, so I'm agnostic.  Unfortunately, neither of us have much to cheer about this season.


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## Tivo II Jack (Aug 10, 2003)

Diana Collins said:


> It also limits access to your local devices from the internet, and this is where "Double NAT" causes an issue. If you ever want to use GoToMyPC or out-of-home streaming from your TiVo to an iPad (for example) when you are travelling, you will need to eliminate one of the routers.


When I first turned on my computer yesterday, I did a manual connect to Tivo and then began reading emails. After the Connect was showing (Done) for all 5 steps, I noticed an error message popping onto my screen. It said something couldn't be found or be connected (forgot to take note) but simply pressing any button on the remote brought me back to the Connect page showing the 5 steps as (Done).

No idea what it was about, but I just did the exact same thing, manual connect and let it sit showing the Connect screen with all 5 steps (Done) and the error message did not return, so all appears good.

As for the streaming problem you mentioned, I have the TW app on my Galaxy S4 Android phone. Any time I attempt to use it, I see this:

We see you're on cellular

Exclusively for Verizon 
Wireless customers, you 
can now view some 
channels away from 
home. Your full TWC TV 
line-up will return when 
you're back on your home 
network.​
That is what I have always seen, even though the only times I have tried to access it I have been sitting in the same room as my computer/modem/router, everything. Not that concerned because I have little or no desire to watch TV on a phone screen.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Yes..that's probably a double NAT issue. Because of the double NAT the TW servers can't connect to the TW app on your phone (which it does to determine if you are at home or not), it falls back to using cellular. If you actually watched TV that way you would be using your cellular data, not going through your cable modem connection at all.


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## Tivo II Jack (Aug 10, 2003)

Diana Collins said:


> Yes..that's probably a double NAT issue. Because of the double NAT the TW servers can't connect to the TW app on your phone (which it does to determine if you are at home or not), it falls back to using cellular. If you actually watched TV that way you would be using your cellular data, not going through your cable modem connection at all.


This is not a new issue, I have always gotten that Cellular message even long before I ever bought the Netgear modem/router when I was still using the modem supplied by TW.

On another note: "Current Setup: 2 Roamio Pros, 5 Minis on *FiOS*"

Can I assume you were once a TW subscriber and switched to FIOS? I have TW right now but I live in an 84 unit Co-Op building in Bay Ridge. The building has just been fully wired for FIOS and it will be available in August. How satisfied are you with FIOS rather than TW?


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

I was actually a DirecTV customer prior to FiOS. I live in a Cablevision area, not a TWC one, so I personally have never had TWC. My son has TWC in his apartment in Manhattan and despises it, for TV and for broadband.

We have been FiOS customers for internet and phone since the first week it was offered for sale in New Jersey. We have been very pleased with both the quality of the service overall, and particularly the reliability (during the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy power was out in our area for 8 days...FiOS never went out at all).

FiOS TV and TiVo are a great combination. There are the usual multiple attempts required before the Cablecard gets paired (pairing is only required for HBO and Cinemax), but other than that it just works. Picture quality is great (DirecTV and FiOS are generally acknowledged as having the best PQ in the business). If we have any complaint, it is that the audio level is low on Dolby 5.1 channels...lower than the 2.0 channels so we are frequently raising or lowering the volume when we change channels.

Bottom line, if FiOS is at all price competitive, I wouldn't hesitate to switch.


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## Tivo II Jack (Aug 10, 2003)

Diana Collins said:


> Picture quality is great (DirecTV and FiOS are generally acknowledged as having the best PQ in the business).


The above comment threw me off for a minute. I thought you were saying you had both FIOS and Direct TV. Now I believe you were only stating that each has the best PQ.



Diana Collins said:


> Bottom line, if FiOS is at all price competitive, I wouldn't hesitate to switch.


Have no idea what the pricing will be but competition should always bring down prices. I am hoping they will offer a trial period so I can keep TW while I evaluate FIOS.

There used to be a guy here named Rich S Adams who was the absolute greatest. He solved more problems for more people than you would believe and I think he was finally overwhelmed and just moved on. It has to be at least 7 years ago that he advised me to go to FIOS the minute they become available.

Re your time with cablevision, all the cable companies beat the anti-Trust laws by simply dividing every neighborhood in the country into little zones within which, residents were only able to access one cable company thereby eliminating any competition. Pretty sure that was all set up by Tony Soprano.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Tivo II Jack said:


> Re your time with cablevision, all the cable companies beat the anti-Trust laws by simply dividing every neighborhood in the country into little zones within which, residents were only able to access one cable company thereby eliminating any competition. Pretty sure that was all set up by Tony Soprano.


There had to have been some level of collusion to achieve that, which would still have violated anti-competition laws.


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## Tivo II Jack (Aug 10, 2003)

tarheelblue32 said:


> There had to have been some level of collusion to achieve that, which would still have violated anti-competition laws.


Are you even suggesting that it didn't happen exactly as stated? It is only changing now because satellite TV arrived on the scene. Cable TV only became available around 1985 in NYC's outer boroughs, so for 30 years they have played their little game of dividing up the nation between themselves so they were never actually competing with each other.

If you knew of a cable provider with much lower prices, the only way to get that price was to move into one of the neighborhoods they serviced. The five mafia families in NY divided up the city but the cable companies went way beyond that and divided up the entire country.

I don't know what you mean by "anti-competition laws", the only thing I ever heard of was the Sherman anti-Trust laws. That would only be violated if only one company was able to provide service nationwide.

My neighborhood can only get TW, and less than a mile away there is another neighborhood where only Cablevision is available. They are not competing with each other, you have to go with the one that 'owns' your neighborhood.

The Gambino crime family cannot start running drugs and prostitution in an area controlled by the Genovese family. Well, they could, but it would mean a war between the two families.

What is preventing TW from wiring areas serviced by Cablevision and going into competition with them. No 'war' would erupt but they are ALL willingly playing by the agreements that were set up and put in place LONG before any of them began actually providing cable service.

You better believe that TONS of money (bribes) went under the table which has allowed them to operate as mini-monopolies all across the country for the past 30 years. With DOZENS of cable companies in service across the country, the fact that for 30 years the only one accessible to me in my neighborhood has been TW. If that does not make it a mini-monoploly, I don't know what does.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Tivo II Jack said:


> I don't know what you mean by "anti-competition laws", the only thing I ever heard of was the Sherman anti-Trust laws. That would only be violated if only one company was able to provide service nationwide.


"Plain agreements among competitors to divide sales territories or assign customers are almost always illegal. These arrangements are essentially agreements not to compete: "I won't sell in your market if you don't sell in mine." The FTC uncovered such an agreement when two chemical companies agreed that one would not sell in North America if the other would not sell in Japan. Illegal market sharing may involve allocating a specific percentage of available business to each producer, dividing sales territories on a geographic basis, or assigning certain customers to each seller."

http://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/comp...-laws/dealings-competitors/market-division-or


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Tivo II Jack said:


> The above comment threw me off for a minute. I thought you were saying you had both FIOS and Direct TV. Now I believe you were only stating that each has the best PQ...


Yes that is what I was saying, but we also did have both FiOS and DirecTV for about 6 weeks. We waited out our 30 day "cancellation without penalty" period on FiOS and TiVo before we cancelled DirecTV. So we had many opportunities to do a/b comparisons between the two and I couldn't see any difference. We also had some recorded shows to watch. 



Tivo II Jack said:


> There used to be a guy here named Rich S Adams...


Yeah, I remember Rich...we was a great guy. TCF was a lot different back then.


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## Tivo II Jack (Aug 10, 2003)

tarheelblue32 said:


> "Plain agreements among competitors to divide sales territories or assign customers are almost always illegal. These arrangements are essentially agreements not to compete: "I won't sell in your market if you don't sell in mine." The FTC uncovered such an agreement when two chemical companies agreed that one would not sell in North America if the other would not sell in Japan. Illegal market sharing may involve allocating a specific percentage of available business to each producer, dividing sales territories on a geographic basis, or assigning certain customers to each seller."
> 
> http://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/comp...-laws/dealings-competitors/market-division-or


This may be an apples and oranges situation so let me ask one simple question that applies to cable only. The arrival of satellite, dish and other means of TV access such as Aereo are aiming a very sharp needle directly at the cable bubble, but for 30 years they have had it their way.

Are you saying that the cable companies did not divide the country into areas within which people have access to only one cable provider?

Whether intended or not (some chance), this has protected them from competition for 30 years.


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## Tivo II Jack (Aug 10, 2003)

Diana Collins said:


> Yeah, I remember Rich...we was a great guy. TCF was a lot different back then.


It certainly was a lot different.

Rich helped me use the old Instant Cake software to intall larger HDD's into my two series 2 Tivos and then years later to do the same with 2 series 3 units using a much better software I don't remember the name of right now.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

Tivo II Jack said:


> This may be an apples and oranges situation so let me ask one simple question that applies to cable only. The arrival of satellite, dish and other means of TV access such as Aereo are aiming a very sharp needle directly at the cable bubble, but for 30 years they have had it their way.
> 
> Are you saying that the cable companies did not divide the country into areas within which people have access to only one cable provider?


Correct. The cable companies did not do the dividing. It's completely illegal and they would risk a whole lot if they got caught doing it.

But they didn't have to. Every local municipality did it for them. In order to get a franchise license, every local municipality insisted that a cable provider give perks and service to all residents of the municipality, whether a particular subsection was profitable or not. Each municipality demanded so much from a franchisee (all for the benefit of the municipality) that it wouldn't be worth it for a second franchisee coming in. The cable companies went along with the demands because they knew that they would in effect be getting a monopoly.


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## Tivo II Jack (Aug 10, 2003)

CrispyCritter said:


> Correct. The cable companies did not do the dividing. It's completely illegal and they would risk a whole lot if they got caught doing it.
> 
> But they didn't have to. Every local municipality did it for them. In order to get a franchise license, every local municipality insisted that a cable provider give perks and service to all residents of the municipality, whether a particular subsection was profitable or not. Each municipality demanded so much from a franchisee (all for the benefit of the municipality) that it wouldn't be worth it for a second franchisee coming in. The cable companies went along with the demands because they knew that they would in effect be getting a monopoly.


NYC is a 'local municipality', a pretty huge one of course, but this entire city was divided into pretty small neighborhoods. Two or three of these divisions might exist within a single zip code.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

NYC never made the "wire everybody" demand, so the first places wired were either the easy ones (private homes in the outer boroughs) or high return (big buildings in Manhattan). Smaller buildings in Manhattan and apartment buildings in the outer boroughs were wired MUCH later. For years, Manhattan Cable (later acquired by Time Warner Cable) was a virtual monopoly. These days some neighborhoods have two options for cable (TWC or RCN), and you see a few satellite dishes here and there. But there are still small apartment buildings in NYC that have never been wired.


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## Tivo II Jack (Aug 10, 2003)

Diana Collins said:


> NYC never made the "wire everybody" demand, so the first places wired were either the easy ones (private homes in the outer boroughs) or high return (big buildings in Manhattan). Smaller buildings in Manhattan and apartment buildings in the outer boroughs were wired MUCH later. For years, Manhattan Cable (later acquired by Time Warner Cable) was a virtual monopoly. These days some neighborhoods have two options for cable (TWC or RCN), and you see a few satellite dishes here and there. But there are still small apartment buildings in NYC that have never been wired.


I believe Manhattan Cable first became available in the 1960's while the outer borough's had no cable at all until the mid 1980's. The tall buildings in Manhattan played havoc with TV signals and that became even worse with color TV.

There was a time when movie theaters saw cable TV as a serious threat to their industry and people exiting movies were asked to sign petitions to "STOP PAY TV!" This was presented to people as if they were going to have to begin paying to watch the exact same TV shows they had always watched for free. EVERYONE signed those petitions and that was a big part of slowing the arrival of cable TV in NYC's outer boroughs and probably elsewhere.

I don't know of anywhere in Brooklyn that has not been wired for cable today


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## Tivo II Jack (Aug 10, 2003)

Diana Collins said:


> There are some potential issues down the road with cascaded routers. The issue is referred to as "Double NAT" where NAT stands for Network Address Translation. NAT is what allows all of your home devices to communicate over the internet through a single ISP assigned address. It also limits access to your local devices from the internet, and this is where "Double NAT" causes an issue.


And then it happened. Not sure if this is the double NAT you mentioned, but all day today my internet has been running on 2 speeds, EXTREMELY sluggish and dead stop.

I called Netgear and they suggested removing the Linksys router altogether. That would mean connecting only my computer and Ooma phone to the 2 available ethernet ports leaving everything else to connect wirelessly using the Netgear as my modem and router.

I doubt that would be a good solution where Tivo is concerned.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Easiest solution is just pick up an Ethernet switch, plug it into one port on the router, and the Ooma into the other. Then plug everything else into the switch (they mostly come in 5, 8 and 16 port versions for home use...pick whatever size you need).


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## Tivo II Jack (Aug 10, 2003)

Diana Collins said:


> Easiest solution is just pick up an Ethernet switch, plug it into one port on the router, and the Ooma into the other. Then plug everything else into the switch (they mostly come in 5, 8 and 16 port versions for home use...pick whatever size you need).


Great minds???? My Netgear 8 port switch will be delivered tomorrow. I will retire the Linksys router, use the Netgear modem/router I just bought and plug everything including the Ooma into the switch.


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## Tivo II Jack (Aug 10, 2003)

Diana Collins said:


> Easiest solution is just pick up an Ethernet switch, plug it into one port on the router, and the Ooma into the other. Then plug everything else into the switch (they mostly come in 5, 8 and 16 port versions for home use...pick whatever size you need).


New switch is in place and all seems just fine.


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