# Explain Why Lifetime Service isn't a hugely bad idea



## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

I've been trying to understand why anyone would purchase Lifetime service of a Tivo Roamio (or for that matter any model Tivo) DVR. According to my calculations, it would take roughly 33 months to break even on the $500 cost of the Lifetime service considering that the monthly service fee is $14.95. From what I understand the Lifetime service is only good for the life of the individual machine. The warranty on a Tivo Roamio is one year. So what happens if your Tivo dies at 13 months? Are you just SOL? If so, it seems that you are taking a risk that the machine even last 33 months. It does not seem like a good deal to me. But maybe I'm missing something?


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## StevesWeb (Dec 26, 2008)

Several things I see differently, 

The resale value of a used TiVo w/lifetime is increased by one or two hundred dollars

Modern electronics are highly reliable, the exposure to possibility of failure is negligible

If a failure does occur on either of my Roamio it is likely to be a hard drive, the retail WD 3 TB drive I dropped into mine has a 3 year warranty

Also, I assign high value to getting rid of another monthly bill


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

The one and only reason NOT to get lifetime, is if you are type of person that likes to upgrade every time a new unit is introduced. 

(IMO)

If you plan on keeping the Tivo until it dies, it doesn't make sense to pay monthly. After 33 months (by your calculations), you're just giving your money away to TiVo.


If your Tivo dies after the warranty, you fix it (in most cases). There is plenty of information and people here on this forum that will help you through it, if needed. Or you can exchange it through TiVo for a fee.


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## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

I had a TivoHD for over 8 years. I paid $12.95/month for it. Once I realized I paid $1243.20 I knew for my Roamio's I would go Lifetime.

First, I used the PLSR code to the lifetime down to $399. That brings the break even point to just over 26 months.

Then I purchased the 3 year Tivo Warranty for $40. You could look at this as making the total investment $439 in which case that would bump up the breakeven point to almost 30 months. However, for me....we just had the family skip a meal out that week and that's easily a $40 savings applied to the warranty.

Once the warranty is applied.....then you can rest assured that your $399 for Lifetime won't ever go to waste since it would be paid off within 36 months (the 3 year warranty time).

FYI the Tivo warranty is a one and done.....meaning if you use it, you'll get a replacement box and they will transfer the lifetime to that, but then that box won't have a warranty. According to Tivo people I talked to, they claimed you can buy another warranty on the replacement box, but this isn't written anywhere so you'd have to take it with a grain of salt. I made MANY calls and talked to a lot of people to try to get a straight answer on it.

Lastly, by far the most likely piece to die on the Roamio is the hard drive, and now they make it so much easier to put in a new one, that if it dies, even under warranty, you'd likely be better off just putting in a new drive yourself.

I hate the cable co. offerings. I love my Tivos. I have no plan to leave, so I know that if I went monthly.....I'd end up paying thousands again.

-Kevin


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## squiddohio (Dec 21, 2001)

I have had TiVos almost since the beginning, and all have had Lifetime. Some of those subscriptions were transferred to new boxes (a rare process these days), and when I eventually sold the others, I received a nice price increment for the Lifetime. When I looked at the price structure, I could not understand why anyone would get a TiVo and not have a Lifetime Subscription. One of us slept through Econ 101, I guess.


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## monkeydust (Dec 12, 2004)

I've owned TiVo's since the beginning and didn't get lifetimes until my Roamio and Mini. I wish I had previously (but, probably didn't have the money back then early on to buy lifetimes on my S1 and S2).


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

I am pretty happy with how Lifetime turned out for us and purchased it again for a 3rd time on our Roamio.

9/2000 to 11/2006 - $199 x 2 
11/2006 to 12/2013 - $199 x 2 (special offer to transfer the S1 lifetimes to S3's for a fee)
12/2013 to ? - $399 x 1


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

bengalfreak said:


> I've been trying to understand why anyone would purchase Lifetime service of a Tivo Roamio (or for that matter any model Tivo) DVR. According to my calculations, it would take roughly 33 months to break even on the $500 cost of the Lifetime service considering that the monthly service fee is $14.95. From what I understand the Lifetime service is only good for the life of the individual machine. The warranty on a Tivo Roamio is one year. So what happens if your Tivo dies at 13 months? Are you just SOL? If so, it seems that you are taking a risk that the machine even last 33 months. It does not seem like a good deal to me. But maybe I'm missing something?


Good question. However, you are comparing the length of warranty to expected life. There is no correlation to either, since the warranty is based on the exposure the manufacturer is willing to take to repair/replace their product. For example, in the 1960's, automobile manufacturers would only give you a 90 day/3,000 mile warranty on a new car. Most cars lasted 80,000 to 100,000 miles back then.

That being said, I have had my original Series 1 with 2001 technology some 12 years and it is still operational although I do not use it. Its telephone modem failed many years ago and I was able to install an ethernet card that was being offered back then by one of the vendors who advertise on this site. My Series 2 units are almost 9 & 10 years old. The Series 3 I just sold for $250 was 4-1/2 years old. I have had to replace the hard drives in all of those units each for less than $100. I never paid more than $400 for Lifetime service so if you do the math the break-even was usually 2 to 2-1/2 years for each unit and I was able to sell an almost 5 year old unit for $250.

In summary, yes, as the TiVo units get older their hard drives will fail and need to be replaced, but if you protect them with a good surge protector they should last for a longer period of time than the break-even point for lifetime subscription service vs. monthly service. Today's electronic products are highly reliable and most failures occur early in their life. If the TiVo units were experiencing high failure rates after the one year warranty period, then I would expect that this Forum would have many postings about the failures. I now have no monthly payments for three inservice TiVo units, two of which have the equivalent of free monthly service going forward (they are years passed the break-even period). That is one thing you will never receive from a cable provider's DVR, i.e. free service.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

bengalfreak said:


> I've been trying to understand why anyone would purchase Lifetime service of a Tivo Roamio (or for that matter any model Tivo) DVR. According to my calculations, it would take roughly 33 months to break even on the $500 cost of the Lifetime service considering that the monthly service fee is $14.95. From what I understand the Lifetime service is only good for the life of the individual machine. The warranty on a Tivo Roamio is one year. So what happens if your Tivo dies at 13 months? Are you just SOL? If so, it seems that you are taking a risk that the machine even last 33 months. It does not seem like a good deal to me. But maybe I'm missing something?


First Lifetime doesn't really have to cost $500. There is a discount code (PLSR) that drops it to $400. So break even in around 27 months.

I have purchased lifetime on most of my TiVos and I was financially better off in all cases (determination on Roamio pending) but I did go monthly at $6.95 on one and guess what even at that rate it would have been cheaper to have purchase lifetime. And that doesn't count any additional value my TiVos have because they have lifetime.

Of course you are right if a TiVo with lifetime dies outside of it's warranty and you can not fix it you may loose out if it isn't 27 months old, you can buy an extended warranty that even if you figure in it's costs will provide a break even point at around 30 months. In any event everything you buy will dye someday and most likely outside of the things warranty that just the way it works.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

I've had 3 TiVo's, 4 if you count the Mini just added. The first one, a Series 1 bought in 1998 or 99, lifetime cost me $200, and I used that till last September when I purchased a Roamio Plus. $200 divided by 14 years, if I do the math right, equals about $1.20 a month. Really worthwhile if you ask me. But it doesn't end there. In my case that lifetime continues working for me, as I transferred it to my Roamio, so that $200 lifetime is still amortizing to even lower per month values. Probably the best deal I've ever made purchasing electronics. I had owned a Series 3 (The first HD model with the OLED) for which I didn't purchase lifetime, but because of the prior lifetime service that was still running, I paid a monthly fee of about $7 or $8. Considering I ran that unit for about 8 years, I would have been better off buying a monthly. And last but not least, TiVo was nice enough to give me lifetime on the that same S3 for $100 last year, when I mentioned to them that I'd like to use it as an OTA backup box in the case cable died. I also purchased lifetime for the Mini. Personally, for me, I didn't think of it as buying a lifetime subscription, I just thought of it as paying $250 for a box that let me eliminate cable charges for a second outlet and saved me having to buy another DVR for my office/guest bedroom, along with all the convenience of one central playlist, etc.


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## moedaman (Aug 21, 2012)

bengalfreak said:


> I've been trying to understand why anyone would purchase Lifetime service of a Tivo Roamio (or for that matter any model Tivo) DVR. According to my calculations, it would take roughly 33 months to break even on the $500 cost of the Lifetime service considering that the monthly service fee is $14.95. From what I understand the Lifetime service is only good for the life of the individual machine. The warranty on a Tivo Roamio is one year. So what happens if your Tivo dies at 13 months? Are you just SOL? If so, it seems that you are taking a risk that the machine even last 33 months. It does not seem like a good deal to me. But maybe I'm missing something?


I have bought three used Tivo's w/lifetime in the last 2 years. My Series 2 is from 2003, my Series 3 HD is from 2010 and my Premiere is from 2011 (these are the original lifetime activation dates). They last a lot longer than the break even point. You can always get the extended warranty if you're worried about it.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

How about: Because I hate fooling with yet another monthly payment .

My lifetime premier is several years old now, and I'm still using it as a cheesy streaming client from my lifetime roamio which I certainly hope will last as long as the premier.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

The lifetime option seemed like a no brainer to me. It certainly was a good deal on my S1 and TiVoHD. I got 7 years of good use from the S1, the TiVoHD is still being used 6 years later. Roamio Pro, one month and counting.


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## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

Lifetime is a good deal if you keep your hardware in service for a while:

My personal history with TiVo lifetime service:


Philips S1 bought in 2000 and used for seven years (hardware still works)
Philips S1 DirecTiVo bought in 2002 and used for twelve years (hardware still works)
TiVo S2 bought as a gift in 2004 and still in use
TiVo HD bought in 2007 and still in use
TiVo Premier bought as a gift in 2012 and still in use
TiVo Roamio Pro bought in 2013 and still in use


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

All valid points. I guess another problem I have with it, is that it locks you into the cable Tv company. Once you invest in a lifetime Tivo subscription, you are kind of locked into getting your television from the cable company and not free to move to a cheaper supplier. Which is, i guess, an entirely different argument.


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## nws alpine (Nov 7, 2013)

Using Tivo Roamio and mini setup w/ lifetime I save about $60 per month on my comcast bill. It will pay for itself completely in under 2 years. After that it's pure savings in my pocket with a far superior TIVO experience. The Boxes also hold a value that can be recovered if I move to an area where the tiro will not work (unlikely as no plans to sell the house and move anytime soon).


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## NashvilleKat (Dec 25, 2013)

I'm on my 3rd lifetime TiVo. All 3 have passed the break-even point. I've had no failures. I have upgraded the drives in all 3 but that was for added capacity, not due to failure. If I only counted on a device lasting as long as it's warranty, there are a lot of things I just would not buy. I'd even have to think hard about cars. Even if a TiVo did fail before the break-even point, they are repairable.


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## NashvilleKat (Dec 25, 2013)

bengalfreak said:


> I guess another problem I have with it, is that it locks you into the cable Tv company. Once you invest in a lifetime Tivo subscription, you are kind of locked into getting your television from the cable company and not free to move to a cheaper supplier. Which is, i guess, an entirely different argument.


Unless you get an OTA TiVo which all of mine are.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

bengalfreak said:


> All valid points. I guess another problem I have with it, is that it locks you into the cable Tv company. Once you invest in a lifetime Tivo subscription, you are kind of locked into getting your television from the cable company and not free to move to a cheaper supplier. Which is, i guess, an entirely different argument.


Even if you are the kind of person that switches back and forth between cable, fios/uverse, and satellite to get the intro deals, it is probably still better to get lifetime. If you switch to satellite to get an intro deal, eventually that intro deal will expire and you'll have to switch back to cable to get another intro deal. And when you do, you can still use the Roamio that you have sitting in your closet with lifetime. Conversely, you could sell the Roamio w/lifetime on e-bay when you switch to satellite and recoup much of your initial investment.

Your question also assumes that everyone has a choice. Many people, like me, only have 1 real choice (the cable company) for paid TV service. I'm not in a FIOS area and U-verse is crapola. Satellite won't work for us either for several reasons. We have lots of tall trees around our house and can't get a signal over them. Even if we could, the bundling of TV with broadband internet means that it would be as much or more expensive to split it up and get TV from satellite and broadband internet from the cable company.


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## c133roamioerrors (Dec 28, 2013)

I've been recording TV since the original Betamax. When Tivo first came out, I rejected it because of the monthly or lifetime subscription cost. Lifetime didn't mean a lot because of an unknown life expectancy of the unit and technological upgrades. I ended up buying two Panasonic hard drive recorders that had free downloadable guides (TV Guide)for programming. Until Comcast went digital, I saved enough money on subscriptions to pay for my xl4 and Roamio. The way I look at it is the Tivo subscription I about the same as Comcast DVR monthly cost which the Tivo replaced. I still have issues with paying a lifetime cost for something that may break or become semi obsolete. The Tivo monthly subscription represents a small percentage of what I am paying Comcast.

If you want something with a lot of tuners and a lot of storage, Tivo has a monopoly.

What I would like to see is Comcast unbundle the programming cost from the DVR rental cost so you could buy a good recorder and use Comcast for the programming with a minimal monthly cost. I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

I have 2 S2s that are active since 2002 and 2005. They are still working perfectly so the lifetimes of those machines have exceeded expectations.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

If you buy a new Roamio with a monthly subscription, then you still have a 12 month commitment at $14.99 per month. So you still have to pay $179.88 for service. It's easy to get a promotion code to get lifetime service for $400. So lifetime service really only costs $220.12 extra and you won't have a monthly bill for Tivo anymore. It doesn't make sense to pay for monthly Tivo service on a Roamio.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

kbmb said:


> I had a TivoHD for over 8 years. I paid $12.95/month for it. Once I realized I paid $1243.20 I knew for my Roamio's I would go Lifetime.


Right here's the #1 reason. Sure, it takes a while to reach the 'break even' point. But once you cross that point, you're throwing money away, and feel like an idiot every month. 

You have to balance the "will I use it that long?" against "how much money will I throw away if I do use it longer than that?" Once you realize that if you like it, it could cost you 3x as much to keep it if you don't do lifetime, the choice becomes easier to swallow.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

What I don't get is the people who balk at the cost of lifetime service.
If TiVo sold the DVR fully functional (like any other piece of electronics such as a Blu-ray player), how much do you think they would charge?

I'd bet it would be in the $600 range, so either way, you're going to be paying that much whether you pay for it all at once or through monthly payments.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

steve614 said:


> What I don't get is the people who balk at the cost of lifetime service.
> If TiVo sold the DVR fully functional (like any other piece of electronics such as a Blu-ray player), how much do you think they would charge?
> 
> I'd bet it would be in the $600 range, so either way, you're going to be paying that much whether you pay for it all at once or through monthly payments.


I have consistently held that when ever someone complains about having to pay for service they are really just complaining that TiVo's cost to much.

The reality is the market for stand alone DVRs is too small for economics of scale to have worked to reduce prices and/or increase the feature set. If the market for stand alone DVRs was 10s of millions per year and there were several companies making them then we would be seeing more innovative DVRs and/or lower price points, but with the market this small and only one real player it isn't going to happen. In my opinion the only way the market can really grow is if the FCC grows a pare and replaces cable card with a software based decryption solution and requires all pay TV providers (Satellite, Cable, IP, etc.) to work with it.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

bengalfreak said:


> All valid points. I guess another problem I have with it, is that it locks you into the cable Tv company. Once you invest in a lifetime Tivo subscription, you are kind of locked into getting your television from the cable company and not free to move to a cheaper supplier.


No, it doesn't - you are completely ignoring the resale value of a lifetimed Tivo, which essentially covers the cost of service (assuming you get it for $400).


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

We haven't upgraded to a Premiere or a Roamio yet, but the lifetime service easily paid for itself on the original 2 S1's that we purchased (7 years and still working when we upgraded) and now 7 years and still going on the 2 S3 OLED's that were the replacements.

However, if you would prefer to stick with monthly, I won't argue since that will probably mean more money for TiVo in the long run. 

Scott


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

I purchased my first TiVo in 2000 and now in 2014, I have three TiVos running, all with lifetime and I have purchased four total lifetime service contracts. I have never paid a penny of monthly TiVo fees, I can't tell you how far ahead I am and that is without considering all three still have resale value and none of the three would have any value without lifetime. Two of the four lifetime purchases were with used TiVos.

Monthly fees for anybody that wants to connect a TiVo and use it for years would be very foolish, like walking outside once a month and throwing $10 up into the air and watching it blow away.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

kbmb said:


> FYI the Tivo warranty is a one and done.....meaning if you use it, you'll get a replacement box and they will transfer the lifetime to that, but then that box won't have a warranty. According to Tivo people I talked to, they claimed you can buy another warranty on the replacement box, but this isn't written anywhere so you'd have to take it with a grain of salt. I made MANY calls and talked to a lot of people to try to get a straight answer on it.


I bought a Roamio Pro 8-25-13, got extended warranty. Had to replace unit last month, got extended warranty on replacement unit, good until 2-2-17


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## todd_j_derr (Jun 6, 2000)

I've purchased 5 Tivos (plus 4 Minis) and bought lifetime on all of them. There is some risk of getting "burned" on a premature failure - but to flip that around, if you don't get lifetime then you're getting "burned" if it doesn't fail. My S1 (which I used for ~10 years then sold for $100) would have been vastly more expensive without lifetime.

As others have said, the HD is the most likely part to fail (and it did fail on my S1), but you can replace it yourself without too much trouble.


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## sakaike (Jan 22, 2002)

As someone who has owned 7-8 Tivos since the original S1, and almost all of them with lifetime, let me turn the question around: Is there any scenario in which NOT purchasing lifetime makes sense? The only one I can think of is cash flow. If you don't have the $400 in hand at the time of purchase, maybe you go with monthly while you save up the money and then pull the trigger.

Other than that, it's not clear to me why anyone would NOT get lifetime. Anyone care to share any scenarios in which going monthly (even with MSD) makes sense?


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## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

brianric said:


> I bought a Roamio Pro 8-25-13, got extended warranty. Had to replace unit last month, got extended warranty on replacement unit, good until 2-2-17


Good to know!

-Kevin


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## BiloxiGeek (Nov 18, 2001)

I've had multiple TiVo's since the series 1 in 2001 or 2002. Bought lifetime on each and every one. Pretty sure every one of them has paid for lifetime before it conked out or got sold/gifted.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

sakaike said:


> Other than that, it's not clear to me why anyone would NOT get lifetime. Anyone care to share any scenarios in which going monthly (even with MSD) makes sense?


Only one I can think of, I mentioned in post #3:



steve614 said:


> The one and only reason NOT to get lifetime, is if you are type of person that likes to upgrade every time a new unit is introduced.


And even that is questionable, since no one knows when/if TiVo is going to introduce the next new DVR.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Thread conclusion: Even if it may seem expensive or "scary" to get product lifetime service, it makes the most financial sense under almost any scenario. Pretty much the only reason to not get lifetime service is if you know for sure that your TiVo will break down within 2 years.


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## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

bengalfreak said:


> I've been trying to understand why anyone would purchase Lifetime service of a Tivo Roamio (or for that matter any model Tivo) DVR. According to my calculations, it would take roughly 33 months to break even on the $500 cost of the Lifetime service considering that the monthly service fee is $14.95. From what I understand the Lifetime service is only good for the life of the individual machine. The warranty on a Tivo Roamio is one year. So what happens if your Tivo dies at 13 months? Are you just SOL? If so, it seems that you are taking a risk that the machine even last 33 months. It does not seem like a good deal to me. But maybe I'm missing something?


Its not a 1 year warranty if you buy the three year plan.

With out Lifetime service on your Roamio its not worth what you paid for it. Why would anyone buy your used TiVo at the price you paid for it when they can get a new one for the same price or cheaper.
With Lifetime service on it your TiVo now has resale value, you might not get back all you have into it but you may get back enough to knock a chunk out of the next new thing.
As for repairs, all of my TiVo's have been very reliable and short of mother board failure and with the help of kind people from this site I can fix it myself if need be, and have!
Using your numbers after 33 months the PLS has paid for itself and now your ahead of the games each day forward.
My TiVo HD with PLS looks and works like new, PLS has paid for itself, my Premiere with PLS will pay for itself soon and I'm content with $99 yearly on my Roamio, for now, always looking for a deal.....


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

sakaike said:


> As someone who has owned 7-8 Tivos since the original S1, and almost all of them with lifetime, let me turn the question around: Is there any scenario in which NOT purchasing lifetime makes sense? The only one I can think of is cash flow. If you don't have the $400 in hand at the time of purchase, maybe you go with monthly while you save up the money and then pull the trigger.
> 
> Other than that, it's not clear to me why anyone would NOT get lifetime. Anyone care to share any scenarios in which going monthly (even with MSD) makes sense?


There are a lot of scenarios. I only had my premiere for 2 years. Would have been awful if I had lifetime'd it. My S3 I used for like 8 years I think, and I didn't lifetime it, but for most of those years it was 6.99 a month due to the old MSD price.

I only lifetime'd my Roamio because I was getting a steep discount on the box + service due to the Advisers Panel code.

There are lots of reasons not to lifetime.

In general, technologies flip every 2-3 years. TiVo is smart. They aren't putting the lifetime price such that it's an obvious "do it" or "never do it." They are putting it right in that range where, on average, they come out the same selling you a lifetime or selling you monthly. People get paid a lot of money to do that math.

Most of you who have lifetime'd a bunch of TiVo's and bought each generation are not making your money back... because without the lifetime, you would have retired old TiVos. Those of you who lifetime a few of them and keep them for a really long time (frequently skipping generations), probably are.

edit: When I ran the numbers for myself and my lifestyle and the value of the up-front payment (i.e. what else could I do with that cash? What is my future uncertainty, etc), I came out with a lifetime requiring a break even of about 24-28 months. Anything more than that, and it's not worth it. Anything less, and it's an automatic slam dunk. Anything in between 24-28 comes down to just personal preference at the time.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

Joe01880 said:


> Its not a 1 year warranty if you buy the three year plan.
> 
> With out Lifetime service on your Roamio its not worth what you paid for it. Why would anyone buy your used TiVo at the price you paid for it when they can get a new one for the same price or cheaper.
> With Lifetime service on it your TiVo now has resale value, you might not get back all you have into it but you may get back enough to knock a chunk out of the next new thing.


This is such a silly thing to say. It's true regardless of if you bought a lifetime. Both boxes lose value... if you buy a lifetime, you lose value on the hardware AND the lifetime. If you just buy hardware, you only lose money on the hardware.


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

Grakthis said:


> There are a lot of scenarios. I only had my premiere for 2 years. Would have been awful if I had lifetime'd it. My S3 I used for like 8 years I think, and I didn't lifetime it, but for most of those years it was 6.99 a month due to the old MSD price.


That ignores re-sale value. If you have no desire to sell stuff on eBay, then sure, Monthly was a good choice for you on the Premiere.

Assuming a 2-tuner Premiere, worst case, it would have had a re-sale value of at least $300. You would have paid $99-$149 for it with $399 MSD. After 2 years of $12.99 MSD a month, you paid $311.76 in service. Ignoring the cost of the box since it is paid whether you get Monthly or MSD, the Lifetime box had a net cost of service of ~$88 after selling it.

As for the S3, after 8 years, you paid $671 in service. Lifetime would have cost $299 back then.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Use case: Tivo premiere with lifetime is around 300-350. Tivo premiere without is around 25. Driving the cost to zero in an analysis is not being fair to the residual value of the remaining asset life. So, the 400 dollar spend using plsr nets 275-325 compared with a monthly plan. I would think a roamio, being vastly superior, would hold value greater over time than a premiere.

But, people lease cars for long periods, purchase undercoating, and even buy insurance on every electronic gadget. To each their own.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

For generational buyers who don't run their hardware all the way to their death, the resell value is where the savings happen. It would be silly to throw out or store away equipment worth hundreds of dollars. The resell is the active and most important part of their savings strategy.

My total out-of-pocket for my original Lifetimed Premiere was about $165 for the 3.5 years I had it, because I sold it shortly after the Roamios launched. That's less than $4/month.

That's a steal compared to the would-be Premiere + subscription cost. Even if I give the non-lifetimed Premiere a generous resell value of $50, the cost would be around $15/mo for the same duration of time.

It covered almost half the cost of my Lifetimed Plus, taking a good bit of the "bite" out of the steep upfront cost.


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## mpf541 (Nov 25, 2009)

I have had several Tivo's with lifetime. And When I get rid of them for a new model they go on ebay and I get a bib part of that back. Lots of demand for old tiros with lifetime. Factor that into the cost and I see no reason not to get the lifetime. And maybe I am lucky I have never had a tivo go bacd. My fist S3 I bought with a lifetime is still in use by the gut I sold it to.


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

I'm still not certain lifetime is a good investment. I think its a minor miracle that Tivo is still in business at all. They go belly up and your lifetime investment in the service is worthless. 

Having said that, it appears that Tivo is more profitable now than they have been in a while.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

bengalfreak said:


> I'm still not certain lifetime is a good investment. I think its a minor miracle that Tivo is still in business at all. They go belly up and your lifetime investment in the service is worthless.


That is an irrational fear. They have a ton of cash on hand, are at least breaking even on the retail side of the business, and have business deals with various cable operators. They will probably never be a business that makes money hand-over-fist, but they aren't going to go "belly up" anytime soon.


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## mpaquette (Aug 1, 2005)

For those of you that purchased lifetime with a Roamio, did you also purchase an extended warranty? How much does Tivo charge for the 3 year extended warranty?


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## c133roamioerrors (Dec 28, 2013)

mpaquette said:


> For those of you that purchased lifetime with a Roamio, did you also purchase an extended warranty? How much does Tivo charge for the 3 year extended warranty?


It was $39.99 for my Roamio pro.


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## eric102 (Oct 31, 2012)

Paid $30 for the 4 year warranty on a basic at Best buy.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

I never buy extended warranties. They are always a rip-off. I didn't buy an extended warranty on a $2000 HDTV or a $1,300 laptop, so why would I buy a warranty on an $739 Roamio Plus or a $236 Mini? When you just think of the lifetime service as just part of the purchase price, it makes it much less scary. I mean, who can't afford to replace a $236 Mini if it craps out on you? Is that really something you need to buy an insurance policy for?

And even if you buy an extended warranty and yours is one of the rare ones that does break, you're going to have to go through a lot of hassle to replace it under the warranty. And even if you do manage to get a replacement, from what I understand TiVo doesn't give you a new replacement unit, they give you a "refurbished" one. Yeah, no thanks. I don't want someone else's reject. I only want a new piece of electronics. I'll keep pocketing the money I would have paid for extended warranties, and if something breaks I'll just buy a new one. Life is so much simpler that way.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

bengalfreak said:


> I've been trying to understand why anyone would purchase Lifetime service of a Tivo Roamio (or for that matter any model Tivo) DVR. According to my calculations, it would take roughly 33 months to break even on the $500 cost of the Lifetime service considering that the monthly service fee is $14.95. From what I understand the Lifetime service is only good for the life of the individual machine. The warranty on a Tivo Roamio is one year. So what happens if your Tivo dies at 13 months? Are you just SOL? If so, it seems that you are taking a risk that the machine even last 33 months. It does not seem like a good deal to me. But maybe I'm missing something?


You have it totally backwards. There's no way I would BUY and TiVo and THEN have another monthly fee. Monthly is idiotic, as it's always cheaper to go with Lifetime, whether you keep the unit way longer than the break-even point, or whether you sell the unit and get the increased value from Lifetime, or whether you give it to someone, and they can use it without paying MORE.

My parents had their S2 for over 6 years, and we could have put a new hard drive in it when it died, but it just wasn't worth bothering, since HD was already the standard by that point, so they ended up getting a crappy cableco DVR.

Pretty much the only things that go bad are the PSU and HDD. Both can be replaced, and the lifetime is tied to the motherboard, so you can rebuild/replace everything around the same motherboard and keep lifetime, although there really isn't anything in a TiVo other than the motherboard, an HDD, and a power supply.



bengalfreak said:


> All valid points. I guess another problem I have with it, is that it locks you into the cable Tv company. Once you invest in a lifetime Tivo subscription, you are kind of locked into getting your television from the cable company and not free to move to a cheaper supplier. Which is, i guess, an entirely different argument.


This is the only downside. However, cheap has nothing to do with it. DirecTV is MORE expensive than any cable company, and TiVo makes cable more competitive, since you own the hardware, and with lifetime, there's no monthly fees.

It depends on how bad the cable company is. Here I have two mediocre options for cable (an old, non-upgraded 650mhz Comcast system with only 70 HD's, and a local overbuilder who has an even worse HD lineup, and still has a ton of analog). Places with FIOS usually have two good ones, as the cable companies have upgraded to compete with FIOS, and then, of course, there's FIOS. And FIOS is so good that few people would get DirecTV over FIOS anyways, and if they did, they would know that they wanted DirecTV, and would never consider TiVo.

TiVo saved cable for me. If it weren't for TiVo, I'd be paying through the nose for DirecTV because they have the only other decent DVR solution out on the market with good multi-room and good scalability.


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## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

eric102 said:


> Paid $30 for the 4 year warranty on a basic at Best buy.


Has anyone ever had a unit replaced by a third party and had tivo transfer the lifetime to the new unit?

-Kevin


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Haven't read all of the responses from this thread, but I have even had a lifetime Tivo go bad (OLED S3, and no, not the power supply).. But even that was I think _slightly_ over the break even point.

I've still bought 2 lifetime Tivos since then.. I keep 'intending' to sell one, but haven't gotten around to it.

Basically, if you *weren't* able to pay lifetime, if the monthly cost wasn't a LOT LOT cheaper, I would at least strongly consider other options at some point in the future.

Could I afford to pay monthly? Of course. It just adds up to a LOT.

People who paid lifetime on satellite radio won too.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

bengalfreak said:


> I'm still not certain lifetime is a good investment. I think its a minor miracle that Tivo is still in business at all. They go belly up and your lifetime investment in the service is worthless.
> 
> Having said that, it appears that Tivo is more profitable now than they have been in a while.


TiVo has 1 billion in cash and short term investments as of the last financial statement so there should be no concern that they go belly up within the time frame to recoup your lifetime investment.

Scot


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

bengalfreak said:


> I'm still not certain lifetime is a good investment. I think its a minor miracle that Tivo is still in business at all. They go belly up and your lifetime investment in the service is worthless.
> 
> Having said that, it appears that Tivo is more profitable now than they have been in a while.





tarheelblue32 said:


> That is an irrational fear. They have a ton of cash on hand, are at least breaking even on the retail side of the business, and have business deals with various cable operators. They will probably never be a business that makes money hand-over-fist, but they aren't going to go "belly up" anytime soon.


Even if TiVo went belly up, I'd bet someone else would buy in and keep the service going. Now, whether or not we like that continued service is another matter.

That, or at the very least, TiVo could flip a switch (alter the software) and make the DVRs functional without the service. It would probably be like going back to the VCR days, but it would still be something.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

bengalfreak said:


> I'm still not certain lifetime is a good investment. I think its a minor miracle that Tivo is still in business at all. They go belly up and your lifetime investment in the service is worthless.
> 
> Having said that, it appears that Tivo is more profitable now than they have been in a while.


Yeah and people have been saying that for years but Tivo is still around.

Let me guess, you'd rather lease all your cars too, right? And continue to pay your cell phone company full price because you want a new phone every couple of years?


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## mae (Dec 10, 2001)

kbmb said:


> Has anyone ever had a unit replaced by a third party and had tivo transfer the lifetime to the new unit?
> 
> -Kevin


Yes, Best Buy a few weeks ago on a 3 year, 10 month old Premier. See post #11 in this thread, http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=514639.


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## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

mae said:


> Yes, Best Buy a few weeks ago on a 3 year, 10 month old Premier. See post #11 in this thread, http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=514639.


First congrats on the easy process and the upgrade!

Good to know that Tivo honors third party warranties and transfers lifetime.

-Kevin


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

steve614 said:


> Even if TiVo went belly up, I'd bet someone else would buy in and keep the service going. Now, whether or not we like that continued service is another matter.


This would be the probable outcome. I'm sure we would no longer get any software updates, but it wouldn't take much for a company to buy up the subscriptions and just provide guide data indefinitely.



steve614 said:


> That, or at the very least, TiVo could flip a switch (alter the software) and make the DVRs functional without the service. It would probably be like going back to the VCR days, but it would still be something.


Yes, if TiVo couldn't find a buyer for the subscriptions, they would probably send one last software update through to unlock all boxes functionality as much as possible before they turn the lights off.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

bengalfreak said:


> I'm still not certain lifetime is a good investment. I think its a minor miracle that Tivo is still in business at all. They go belly up and your lifetime investment in the service is worthless.
> 
> Having said that, it appears that Tivo is more profitable now than they have been in a while.


Replay TV went belly up, yet to lifetime owners of Replay TV the guide data is still available for the recorder to function.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

tatergator1 said:


> That ignores re-sale value. If you have no desire to sell stuff on eBay, then sure, Monthly was a good choice for you on the Premiere.
> 
> Assuming a 2-tuner Premiere, worst case, it would have had a re-sale value of at least $300. You would have paid $99-$149 for it with $399 MSD. After 2 years of $12.99 MSD a month, you paid $311.76 in service. Ignoring the cost of the box since it is paid whether you get Monthly or MSD, the Lifetime box had a net cost of service of ~$88 after selling it.


There's a list of about a dozen things we're "ignoring" for the purposes of this simplified example. I didn't feel the need to get into TVM and economic cost and all kinds of other cases. I gave a simplified example.

Suffice it to say, my example is exactly what it says it is. An example where a lifetime service would not have been beneficial to me.



> As for the S3, after 8 years, you paid $671 in service. Lifetime would have cost $299 back then.


Like I said, the S3 would have been a money maker had I lifetime'd it. But at the time, it was like, at 7 dollars a month, I'd have to keep this thing for 4 years to make my money back. And that's nutso, right? Well, showed me! That box is incredible.

You want the funny part? I did lifetime it. About a month ago when I called to cancel it... they offered me the $99 lifetime on it. Now my dad uses it. It's probably easily going to make back that $99 still too.

I did upgrade the HD in it. The HD died a few years ago.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> For generational buyers who don't run their hardware all the way to their death, the resell value is where the savings happen. It would be silly to throw out or store away equipment worth hundreds of dollars. The resell is the active and most important part of their savings strategy.
> 
> My total out-of-pocket for my original Lifetimed Premiere was about $165 for the 3.5 years I had it, because I sold it shortly after the Roamios launched. That's less than $4/month.
> 
> ...


But it's even cheaper to just skip bad generations of TiVo's... like I did with the TiVo HD line and probably should have done with the Premiere line.

If you do that, then there's definitely wisdom in a lifetime cause you'll have a box for 5+ years.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

The Tivo HD line was not a bad generation, and all of the lifetimed units I bought paid for themselves. I won't disagree with the Premieres speed-wise but mine has been very solid otherwise, and I fully expect lifetime to pay for itself on that one too.


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## Finalrinse (Jan 13, 2005)

I've had (6) TiVo's and (1) Mini so far, all with Lifetime!
1) 2005 TiVo Series2 ST (Sold last year on eBay for a very good price)
2) 2008 TiVo HD (Still have and favorite for traveling with)
3) 2010 TiVo Premier (Sold last year on eBay,started at $300 went for $496)
4) 2012 TiVo Premier 4 (Going up for sale soon, just bought a Roamio)
5) 2013 TiVo Premiere XL4 (Still have and hooked up)
6) 2014 TiVo Roamio Pro (Just bought)
There is a good market for used TiVo's with Lifetime, and it doesn't seem to matter what vintage. Without Lifetime they are almost throw aways.
So, to summarize: If you keep it you make out, if you sell it you make out.


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## bayern_fan (Aug 12, 2013)

Another alternative to the TiVo or Best Buy warranty is buying the Roamio with a credit card (like AmEx) that offers extended warranty coverage on purchases made with said card.


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## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

The monthly charge from my cable co for a DVR is actually slightly higher than the cost of a month of TiVo + a cable card. That extra savings shortens the breakeven time for me even further.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

bayern_fan said:


> Another alternative to the TiVo or Best Buy warranty is buying the Roamio with a credit card (like AmEx) that offers extended warranty coverage on purchases made with said card.


This is actually something most people don't know about because they never read their credit card's terms and conditions. Many major credit cards will double the manufacturer's warranty on consumer electronics purchased with the card. Most consumer electronics (including TiVos) come with a standard 1-year manufacturer's warranty, so if you buy it with your credit card you actually get a second year of the warranty for free.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

I always wondered who you contact about that sort of thing if you need it. I always buy stuff with my Amex just in case but I have never had to use it, KNOCK KNOCK, so I'm not sure if you contact TiVo and say hey I bought this with an Amex and they work it out, or do you call Amex and there's some sort of phone tree option for "my electronic thing broke"?


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## bayern_fan (Aug 12, 2013)

laria said:


> I always wondered who you contact about that sort of thing if you need it. I always buy stuff with my Amex just in case but I have never had to use it, KNOCK KNOCK, so I'm not sure if you contact TiVo and say hey I bought this with an Amex and they work it out, or do you call Amex and there's some sort of phone tree option for "my electronic thing broke"?


It's only for certain cards that AmEx offers (such as the Platinum), so it would be good to double-check whether or not your card is eligible for such a benefit.

https://www.americanexpress.com/us/content/card-benefits/extended-warranty.html

http://creditcardforum.com/blog/american-express-extended-warranty/


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

bayern_fan said:


> It's only for certain cards that AmEx offers (such as the Platinum), so it would be good to double-check whether or not your card is eligible for such a benefit.


Certain Visas and MasterCards also do this. You need to read through your credit card's terms and conditions to know for sure if your card is one of them. If you don't have a copy of the T&C for your card, you can request your credit card company mail you a free copy.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

bayern_fan said:


> It's only for certain cards that AmEx offers (such as the Platinum), so it would be good to double-check whether or not your card is eligible for such a benefit.


There are 49 Amex cards listed as eligible on https://www.americanexpress.com/us/content/card-benefits/extended-warranty-terms.html so it is not that limited.  I have a Blue, and it's listed, so I guess I am good. Thanks for the links, though, now I know how to make a claim.  :up:


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## bayern_fan (Aug 12, 2013)

laria said:


> There are 49 Amex cards listed as eligible on https://www.americanexpress.com/us/content/card-benefits/extended-warranty-terms.html so it is not that limited.  I have a Blue, and it's listed, so I guess I am good. Thanks for the links, though, now I know how to make a claim.  :up:


Oh wow, didn't know it was that extensive! Might have to do with the benefit being more heavily advertised on the cards carrying higher annual fees


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## DeltaOne (Sep 29, 2013)

bayern_fan said:


> Another alternative to the TiVo or Best Buy warranty is buying the Roamio with a credit card (like AmEx) that offers extended warranty coverage on purchases made with said card.


Is a failure during the 2nd (extended) year handled by the original manufacturer (TiVo in this case) or by some 3rd-party company the credit card company uses?

I vaguely remember that it's handled by a 3rd-party company (it saves the credit card company money). I don't think I'd want Joe's Tech Shack on Main Street repairing my TiVo...


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

slowbiscuit said:


> The Tivo HD line was not a bad generation, and all of the lifetimed units I bought paid for themselves. I won't disagree with the Premieres speed-wise but mine has been very solid otherwise, and I fully expect lifetime to pay for itself on that one too.


So, "lifetimes" often pay for themselves because once you have the lifetime you keep the box longer because, why not? You paid for it already.

If I had lifetime'd my premiere, I wouldn't have got a Roamio. Or if I did, I would have kept the premiere running in a different room so I could pretend I got my money out of it. I doubt I would have sold it. but maybe! It's an option.

Most likely I would have used it instead of getting a mini... and it would have been worse than the mini, but i'd have justified it to myself as being cheaper because I already paid the lifetime on it!

Maybe you didn't do this? For me though, especially going forward, I just need 1 TiVo at a time. So a lifetime is only useful for as long as that hardware is the main tivo hardware I plan to use. Which means I necessarily have to skip generations to get that value out.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Grakthis said:


> Most likely I would have used it instead of getting a mini... and it would have been worse than the mini, but i'd have justified it to myself as being cheaper because I already paid the lifetime on it!


There are some advantages to using a premiere over a mini. I love my mini, but it will occasionally drop the moca connection to the Roamio while I am watching live TV on it (I know, I know, "who watches live TV anymore" you ask). It's a relatively minor inconvenience, but if I were using a Premiere with its own dedicated CableCard instead of the mini, I wouldn't ever have this issue while watching live TV.


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## mae (Dec 10, 2001)

DeltaOne said:


> Is a failure during the 2nd (extended) year handled by the original manufacturer (TiVo in this case) or by some 3rd-party company the credit card company uses?
> 
> I vaguely remember that it's handled by a 3rd-party company (it saves the credit card company money). I don't think I'd want Joe's Tech Shack on Main Street repairing my TiVo...


I've used the Amex double warranty several times. In most cases, including a netbook, they said it doesn't pay to fix it, and just gave a credit for the purchase price.

In three cases, however, it was a little different. I had an LCD TV/DVD combo and they had me take it to a local authorized repair place. They paid the $75 for an estimate, and since it was higher than the purchase price, they just credited it.

With laptops, they sent a prepaid shipping box to send it to their depot repair. They fixed my son's, but with my wife's they credited the purchase price.

The process is very simple. You can call or go online and start the case. They want a copy of the purchase receipt (and will actually pull the copy of their records if you don't have it and the manufacturer's warranty. In most cases, the credit has been issued in a few days.

BUT, in what we're talking about, a TiVo, there is a parts warranty for a year but only 90 days labor. I'm not sure how AMEX would handle that in the second 90 days or second year. My guess is they would cover the $150 exchange fee, but you would have to check.


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## ltxi (Feb 14, 2010)

I've never lost money, opportunity loss accounted for, on a lifetime subscription so far. My original S1, a Sony 2000, went into service December 2000. Lifetime sub cost $199. It was still running just fine when I pulled the plug and laid it to rest a couple months back....after cutting the copper phone line it relied on.

With the S5s where a failed drive replacement is a simple plug-and-play the lifetime vs monthly decision seems pretty easy.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Grakthis said:


> So, "lifetimes" often pay for themselves because once you have the lifetime you keep the box longer because, why not? You paid for it already.
> 
> If I had lifetime'd my premiere, I wouldn't have got a Roamio. Or if I did, I would have kept the premiere running in a different room so I could pretend I got my money out of it. I doubt I would have sold it. but maybe! It's an option.
> 
> ...


What I meant was that I paid lifetime for the HDs then sold them later (I only have the Elite now) - the net cost after resale was less than what it would have cost me over time to either pay Tivo monthly or rent a craptacular DVR from Comcast. The breakeven for me has been roughly 2 years.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

slowbiscuit said:


> What I meant was that I paid lifetime for the HDs then sold them later (I only have the Elite now) - the net cost after resale was less than what it would have cost me over time to either pay Tivo monthly or rent a craptacular DVR from Comcast. The breakeven for me has been roughly 2 years.


Yeah... 2 years is the magic number, IMO. If you can get a breakeven of 2 years, then it's always worth it to lifetime. Well, I think, I put it at like 22 or 23 months IIRC? But close enough to 2 years.

Everyone is going to have a different breakeven though.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

tarheelblue32 said:


> There are some advantages to using a premiere over a mini. I love my mini, but it will occasionally drop the moca connection to the Roamio while I am watching live TV on it (I know, I know, "who watches live TV anymore" you ask). It's a relatively minor inconvenience, but if I were using a Premiere with its own dedicated CableCard instead of the mini, I wouldn't ever have this issue while watching live TV.


I agree there are some advantages, but I don't think they outweigh the cable card cost, the slowness of the UI, the lack of true integration of playlists and recording lists, and the general ADORABLE TINYNESS of the mini.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

slowbiscuit said:


> What I meant was that I paid lifetime for the HDs then sold them later (I only have the Elite now) - the net cost after resale was less than what it would have cost me over time to either pay Tivo monthly or rent a craptacular DVR from Comcast. The breakeven for me has been roughly 2 years.


I agree and, what's more, you can easily extrapolate from general TiVo and CTV cost data that for the vast majority of users the break-even point for PLS will be between 24 and 30 months with the average probably on the lower end.

From a financial standpoint there is no question whatever that PLS is a better bargain than monthly service; that principal is applicable to almost any scenario where there is a choice between renting and buying a consumer product. Generally, the only time rental (e.g., monthly TiVo service) is financially advantageous would be in case of a short-term requirement. Otherwise, know that you are paying a premium for the convenience of term flexibility and not having to make a large initial outlay.

Of course, the question of whether to opt for monthly or PLS is a personal decision and there are other considerations involved. But let's put to rest the question of which is the better long-run investment.


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## boulderskies (Aug 23, 2013)

atmuscarella said:


> First Lifetime doesn't really have to cost $500. There is a discount code (PLSR) that drops it to $400. So break even in around 27 months.
> 
> I have purchased lifetime on most of my TiVos and I was financially better off in all cases (determination on Roamio pending) but I did go monthly at $6.95 on one and guess what even at that rate it would have been cheaper to have purchase lifetime. And that doesn't count any additional value my TiVos have because they have lifetime.
> 
> Of course you are right if a TiVo with lifetime dies outside of it's warranty and you can not fix it you may loose out if it isn't 27 months old, you can buy an extended warranty that even if you figure in it's costs will provide a break even point at around 30 months. In any event everything you buy will dye someday and most likely outside of the things warranty that just the way it works.


Where is this PLSR code found and would I use it?


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## mpnret (Dec 4, 2012)

Grakthis said:


> I agree there are some advantages, but I don't think they outweigh the cable card cost, the slowness of the UI, the lack of true integration of playlists and recording lists, and the general ADORABLE TINYNESS of the mini.


It's a tough call. I am still sitting on the fence on this one. Initial plan was to add a mini to my Roamio pro. But when I called in to cancel my 1 year old XL4 service they offered me lifetime for $99. I jumped on it being it made it more marketable on ebay. Now I am having second thoughts. If I keep the XL4, cable card is free from Comcast, I have backup unit to Roamio if ever needed, extra storage space, plus 4 extra tuners. I figure I could get $300. tops for the XL4 and the mini w/lifetime would cost $238. So close to a wash there.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

boulderskies said:


> Where is this PLSR code found and would I use it?


What number do you dial for 911 emergency service? OK, (seriously) the PLSR code is "PLSR", and you enter it when you are activating your new TiVo bought from somebody other than TiVo themselves. It's worked for a long time, and I used it back in January.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

mpnret said:


> It's a tough call. I am still sitting on the fence on this one. Initial plan was to add a mini to my Roamio pro. But when I called in to cancel my 1 year old XL4 service they offered me lifetime for $99. I jumped on it being it made it more marketable on ebay. Now I am having second thoughts. If I keep the XL4, cable card is free from Comcast, I have backup unit to Roamio if ever needed, extra storage space, plus 4 extra tuners. I figure I could get $300. tops for the XL4 and the mini w/lifetime would cost $238. So close to a wash there.


The problem with Comcast is the outlet fee. A mini gets you out of that fee, which is around $10/mo for most areas.


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## mpnret (Dec 4, 2012)

jrtroo said:


> The problem with Comcast is the outlet fee. A mini gets you out of that fee, which is around $10/mo for most areas.


I don't pay an outlet fee for the second cable card. I do pay an outlet fee for a HD DTA but that was on the account before adding the second cable card.


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

Finalrinse said:


> I've had (6) TiVo's and (1) Mini so far, all with Lifetime!
> 1) 2005 TiVo Series2 ST (Sold last year on eBay for a very good price)
> 2) 2008 TiVo HD (Still have and favorite for traveling with)
> 3) 2010 TiVo Premier (Sold last year on eBay,started at $300 went for $496)
> ...


Sorry for the OT question, but how do you travel with the TivoHD - do you take along an antenna?


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## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

javabird said:


> Sorry for the OT question, but how do you travel with the TivoHD - do you take along an antenna?


One could have several hundred hours of recorded shows on one's TiVo HD. You could plug it into a hotel tv or at a relatives house you are staying at and what watch what you want when you want.
I pack mine in my luggage.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk


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## Finalrinse (Jan 13, 2005)

javabird said:


> Sorry for the OT question, but how do you travel with the TivoHD - do you take along an antenna?


I live in Michigan but travel to Arizona during the winter. Phoenix has Cox cable so I hook it up, do not use a cable card, just basic cable.


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## bklinc (Aug 21, 2013)

anthonymoody said:


> The monthly charge from my cable co for a DVR is actually slightly higher than the cost of a month of TiVo + a cable card. That extra savings shortens the breakeven time for me even further.


Unfortunately, that wasn't the case for me. Comcast removed the monthly DVR rental, but added in a monthly fee for "an additional digital outlet" which, when combined with the TiVo monthly fee, amounted to more than the Comcast DVR rental. Apparently, the "additional digital outlet" fee was "included" with the DVR rental fee!


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## bklinc (Aug 21, 2013)

OK! I'm 73 years old! Don't know how long I'll live, but hopefully my kids can reap the benefits of lifetime TiVo service. I have a Premier and a basic Roamio. I will now purchase lifetime service for both, and pray a lot!


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

jrtroo said:


> The problem with Comcast is the outlet fee. A mini gets you out of that fee, which is around $10/mo for most areas.


I have two Tivo's and Philly Comcast, and I'm not paying an outlet fee.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

I had no outlet fee. Then one month I got a letter from Comcast in Philly saying they had made an error and weren't charging my outlet fees.

I'm dumping two Premieres and changing them to Minis.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Arcady said:


> I had no outlet fee. Then one month I got a letter from Comcast in Philly saying they had made an error and weren't charging my outlet fees.
> 
> I'm dumping two Premieres and changing them to Minis.


I've read that Time Warner is starting to charge outlet fees too. Outlet fees just make the Minis w/lifetime an even better deal.


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## ncfoster (Jan 22, 2011)

I think those who are lucky enough not to pay the outlet fees are likely to get hit with them eventually when the automated audits hit their account.

Good luck to anyone who isn't paying it, though.


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## boulderskies (Aug 23, 2013)

L David Matheny said:


> What number do you dial for 911 emergency service? OK, (seriously) the PLSR code is "PLSR", and you enter it when you are activating your new TiVo bought from somebody other than TiVo themselves. It's worked for a long time, and I used it back in January.


What's 911? 

So, it appears I can go into my TiVo account on a Roamio that I bought about 2 months ago and still purchase a Lifetime; can I use the PLSR code at that point???


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

mpnret said:


> It's a tough call. I am still sitting on the fence on this one. Initial plan was to add a mini to my Roamio pro. But when I called in to cancel my 1 year old XL4 service they offered me lifetime for $99. I jumped on it being it made it more marketable on ebay. Now I am having second thoughts. If I keep the XL4, cable card is free from Comcast, I have backup unit to Roamio if ever needed, extra storage space, plus 4 extra tuners. I figure I could get $300. tops for the XL4 and the mini w/lifetime would cost $238. So close to a wash there.


I would sell the XL4 and get the mini. Actually, I would keep the XL4 and get a mini and use the XL4 for OTA recording and storage (transferring shows to and from it as needed) and then if something horrible happened to the Roamio, you can use the XL4. Or lend the XL4 to a friend/family member to use.


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## mpnret (Dec 4, 2012)

Grakthis said:


> I would sell the XL4 and get the mini. Actually, I would keep the XL4 and get a mini and use the XL4 for OTA recording and storage (transferring shows to and from it as needed) and then if something horrible happened to the Roamio, you can use the XL4. Or lend the XL4 to a friend/family member to use.


Doesn't make sense to keep the XL4 and get the mini especially since I have no need for OTA. I am leaning toward keeping the XL4 and skipping the mini. I may have to rethink this if they start charging me for the cable card in the XL4 but for now it's free in both the Roamio and XL4. I tried researching this charge a bit and opinions are all over the place. And just when you think you understand the Comcast charges you notice that little disclaimer at the end "Certain markets may have alternative pricing.".


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## mpnret (Dec 4, 2012)

boulderskies said:


> What's 911?
> 
> So, it appears I can go into my TiVo account on a Roamio that I bought about 2 months ago and still purchase a Lifetime; can I use the PLSR code at that point???


Just log on to your TiVo account and click on schedule a future plan. My roamio Pro is about 2 months old and it offers me lifetime for $399. ($499 is next to it crossed out). At that point you can click on have a promotional code and enter PLSR. It will then dispaly PLSR pricing which is also $399. At that point you can just log out and do nothing.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

mpnret said:


> Doesn't make sense to keep the XL4 and get the mini especially since I have no need for OTA. I am leaning toward keeping the XL4 and skipping the mini. I may have to rethink this if they start charging me for the cable card in the XL4 but for now it's free in both the Roamio and XL4. I tried researching this charge a bit and opinions are all over the place. And just when you think you understand the Comcast charges you notice that little disclaimer at the end "Certain markets may have alternative pricing.".


Oh, I missed that the CC was free. That definitely changes things. I pay for each CC.


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> Yeah and people have been saying that for years but Tivo is still around.
> 
> Let me guess, you'd rather lease all your cars too, right? And continue to pay your cell phone company full price because you want a new phone every couple of years?


Wow, no need to get nasty and imply that I am stupid...


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

No, just kind of tired of how you're using any excuse you can come up with to pay monthly, which is pretty much in line with how most of the country rolls.


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

How long do you think it will be before TWC/comcast starts charging per tuner in order to get around the Mini's savings?


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> No, just kind of tired of how you're using any excuse you can come up with to pay monthly, which is pretty much in line with how most of the country rolls.


Then feel free to exit the thread. There's no need for me to continue to bore you. Sheesh.


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## Goober96 (Jun 28, 2005)

bengalfreak said:


> How long do you think it will be before TWC/comcast starts charging per tuner in order to get around the Mini's savings?


Since the Mini doesn't have a tuner, wouldn't be an issue for Mini owners even if they did.


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

Goober96 said:


> Since the Mini doesn't have a tuner, wouldn't be an issue for Mini owners even if they did.


yes, but the Roamio has 6 tuners. If they were to start charging for each tuner, I'm sure any savings for the Minis would be quickly eaten. However, I've gotten myself off topic as this doesn't have anything to do with a Lifetime subscription.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

bengalfreak said:


> ... I've gotten myself off topic as this doesn't have anything to do with a Lifetime subscription.


Your original topic/question was answered and beat to death long ago.

The reality is that it is unknowable if paying once (lifetime) or monthly for service will end up being "cheaper" for any individual TiVo purchase until after the fact. Which means there is no absolute right or wrong answer. All the scenarios people can think of have been covered and many people have given their results from prior purchases.

I recommend that each person do what ever feels right to themselves and enjoy their TiVo DVR.


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## bayern_fan (Aug 12, 2013)

Lifetime vs. monthly is similar to the prepaid vs. postpaid wireless argument with regards to smartphone subsidies.

If you can afford the up-front cost of the device (Tivo + Lifetime, or a retail-price smartphone) it is nearly always better to go for that option over monthly installments.


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## spaldingclan (Aug 22, 2012)

I hate when mommy and daddy fight


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## squiddohio (Dec 21, 2001)

I think it must be my fault.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

bengalfreak said:


> yes, but the Roamio has 6 tuners. If they were to start charging for each tuner, I'm sure any savings for the Minis would be quickly eaten. However, I've gotten myself off topic as this doesn't have anything to do with a Lifetime subscription.


I doubt it will ever happen. If they start charging per tuner for CableCard devices, then they would have to start charging per tuner on their DVRs as well. And they can know how many tuners your CableCard supports, but can they actually tell for sure how many tuners your CableCard device actually has or is using? You can have a 6-tuner capable CableCard working in a single-tuner device.


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## pegasus (Mar 3, 2004)

bengalfreak said:


> I guess another problem I have with it, is that it locks you into the cable Tv company. Once you invest in a lifetime Tivo subscription, you are kind of locked into getting your television from the cable company and not free to move to a cheaper supplier.


That is not true.

The base model Roamio (like the 1st version of the Premiere) also allow its owners to receive OTA programing as well as cable.

Like so many others, I have been very happy with the reliability of the hardware used in previous Tivo models. That's why my purchase of Lifetime programing for my Series 1, which is still plugging away after more than 14 years of service was a great bargain.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

bayern_fan said:


> Lifetime vs. monthly is similar to the prepaid vs. postpaid wireless argument with regards to smartphone subsidies.
> 
> If you can afford the up-front cost of the device (Tivo + Lifetime, or a retail-price smartphone) it is nearly always better to go for that option over monthly installments.


Yeah and then OP brings up the tired old 'but what if Tivo goes out of business?' line and it's obvious at that point that he really doesn't care what anyone else here says. Logic has no bearing.


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## squiddohio (Dec 21, 2001)

You for got to mention that he thinks math is subjective.


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## skid71 (Mar 20, 2013)

slowbiscuit said:


> Yeah and then OP brings up the tired old 'but what if Tivo goes out of business?' line and it's obvious at that point that he really doesn't care what anyone else here says. Logic has no bearing.


From the many pages of evidence, the above is true.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

LOL.... The old "is PLS a good deal" topic. Always a reliable way to launch a huge thread that doesn't settle anything.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

dlfl said:


> LOL.... The old "is PLS a good deal" topic. Always a reliable way to launch a huge thread that doesn't settle anything.


I think we pretty much settled that TiVo lifetime service is a better deal than monthly service under almost any scenario.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

bayern_fan said:


> Lifetime vs. monthly is similar to the prepaid vs. postpaid wireless argument with regards to smartphone subsidies.
> 
> If you can afford the up-front cost of the device (Tivo + Lifetime, or a retail-price smartphone) it is nearly always better to go for that option over monthly installments.


If you can't afford, it's often best to buy used. In this case buying a used tivo with lifetime. A tivo hd with lifetime can be in the $200 - $250 neighbor hood with used premieres a bit more.


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## gcondrey (Sep 10, 2013)

bengalfreak said:


> All valid points. I guess another problem I have with it, is that it locks you into the cable Tv company. Once you invest in a lifetime Tivo subscription, you are kind of locked into getting your television from the cable company and not free to move to a cheaper supplier. Which is, i guess, an entirely different argument.


This is exactly my issue. I came from DirecTv and the cost of that, plus Comcast Internet only, got out of hand. Went with Comcast double play to save about $85 a month but hated their DVR. I bought my Roamio Plus and am very happy with it but find Comcast so hard to deal with. Every month they have something wrong on my bill, no two months have been the same since I began 7 months ago.

I may get so fed up with Comcast's customer service that I have to bolt back to satellite. In that case, the lifetime Tivo service would hinder my ability to change.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I think we pretty much settled that TiVo lifetime service is a better deal than monthly service under almost any scenario.


Correct. Monthly is for suckers.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

gcondrey said:


> I may get so fed up with Comcast's customer service that I have to bolt back to satellite. In that case, the lifetime Tivo service would hinder my ability to change.


Um, resale value? 

Like I said, in this thread logic has no bearing for some.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

bengalfreak said:


> yes, but the Roamio has 6 tuners. If they were to start charging for each tuner, I'm sure any savings for the Minis would be quickly eaten.


Ha, maybe that would inspire them to update the cable card/tuning adapter firmwares (in all markets) so that they actually supported 6 tuners!


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

Joe01880 said:


> With out Lifetime service on your Roamio its not worth what you paid for it


I paid $100 and I am quite happy with both my basic Roamio and what I paid for it. 


Joe01880 said:


> Why would anyone buy your used TiVo at the price you paid for it when they can get a new one for the same price or cheaper.


If you can pay less than $100 for a basic Roamio, let me know; I'll buy one as a backup.



tarheelblue32 said:


> I never buy extended warranties. They are always a rip-off.


I would normally agree, but $30 for 4 years is not expensive:


eric102 said:


> Paid $30 for the 4 year warranty on a basic at Best buy.


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

bayern_fan said:


> If you can afford the up-front cost of the device (Tivo + Lifetime, or a retail-price smartphone) it is nearly always better to go for that option over monthly installments.


I can afford lifetime and have never used it. My first TiVo was an S2 as a gift with a $100 gift card. I pre-paid for one year, liked it and then pre-paid for a second year.

Then my cable company went all digital. I wound up with one external tuner that usually would tune to the correct channel. I did not check to see what an S2 with or without lifetime was worth; I just donated it to charity.

I was an early adopter with the Premiere. I could not tell if the problems with the Premiere were hardware, software or a combination. Regardless, I had no interest in lifetime preferring to wait out a new model. I turned to the SDUI to solve 95% of the issues with the Premiere and kept renewing. Using armchair quarterbacking I would have been better off getting lifetime by about $100. My Premiere was fried during a power outage and I'm probably just going to toss it.

I now have a basic Roamio which with PM and a $50 gift card from BB cost me $100. I migrated my 1-year pre-paid and just renewed my 1-year pre-paid.

What is going to make this decision a bad one? Gigabit Internet, my cable company offering everything VOD going back for a year, who knows. Not willing to bet that lifetime is a good deal now.


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## squiddohio (Dec 21, 2001)

The fact that an individual does not have the ready cash to purchase the Lifetime has no bearing on whether or not Lifetime is the wiser purchase from an economic standpoint. Not everybody has the capital to purchase the more expensive item that will, in the long run, cost less. The numbers are objectively determinable, but subjectively cannot always be implemented due to one's present situation.


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## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

chicagobrownblue said:


> I paid $100 and I am quite happy with both my basic Roamio and what I paid for it.
> 
> If you can pay less than $100 for a basic Roamio, let me know; I'll buy one as a backup.
> 
> I would normally agree, but $30 for 4 years is not expensive:


Actually $30 for a warranty on a product you paid $100 for is really expensive. A warranty on a Tivo is pointless unless you have lifetime. $30 for a $100 product is crazy but $30 for a $500 product ($100 for the box plus the $400 for lifetime) is a little more reasonable.


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

NYHeel said:


> Actually $30 for a warranty on a product you paid $100 for is really expensive. A warranty on a Tivo is pointless unless you have lifetime. $30 for a $100 product is crazy but $30 for a $500 product ($100 for the box plus the $400 for lifetime) is a little more reasonable.


The Roamio is $199 list. $30 for 4 years is cheap. $30 for 4 years for a $100 product is cheap because overnight shipping for a refurbed Roamio on warranty could easily be more than that. I guess I find value here and you find an excuse to criticize. $30 too much? Really? You expect $0? $10? Not going to happen.

My quote was for someone else. I am waiting to pick up another Roamio for $100 as my "warranty." The $125 I can get from TiVo does not qualify since I have to sign up for service.


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

squiddohio said:


> I have had TiVos almost since the beginning, and all have had Lifetime. Some of those subscriptions were transferred to new boxes *(a rare process these days)*, and when I eventually sold the others, I received a nice price increment for the Lifetime. When I looked at the price structure, I could not understand why anyone would get a TiVo and not have a Lifetime Subscription. One of us slept through Econ 101, I guess.


You probably read a prospectus and ignore the "past results are no guarantee of future performance" i.e. what worked in the past may not work going forward. What you did in the past is not available now; you are just crowing about past good decisions that are not available now. Not useful advice.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

chicagobrownblue said:


> You probably read a prospectus and ignore the "past results are no guarantee of future performance" i.e. what worked in the past may not work going forward. What you did in the past is not available now; you are just crowing about past good decisions that are not available now. Not useful advice.


The math isn't hard to do, especially if you are purchasing a 4 year warranty. What does 4 years of your yearly service cost? is it more or less than $399? There is your answer and you don't even have to consider what the difference in value maybe with or without lifetime at the end of the 4 years.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

There is only one reason for the warranty being offered- profit to the seller. If you instead NEVER buy a product warranty and instead pool all of those funds into an investment you are much better off, even is something needs to be replaced. But, some folks prefer to pay the premium, feel free to do so.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

jrtroo said:


> There is only one reason for the warranty being offered- profit to the seller. If you instead NEVER buy a product warranty and instead pool all of those funds into an investment you are much better off, even is something needs to be replaced. But, some folks prefer to pay the premium, feel free to do so.


This is essentially true for all insurance policies. You are always better off self-insuring than you are buying the insurance, unless you have better information than the insurer does about the risk of loss under the policy. Barring that, the only reason to buy any insurance policy is if you could not bear the loss financially if it does occur. So yes, if you would be unable to absorb the $500-$900 loss in the event your lifetimed Roamio dies or the $200-$250 loss if your Mini dies, then by all means buy the extended warranty. I would hate to see a $200 loss cause anyone here to go bankrupt. On the other hand, if you can absorb the financial loss but it would just ruin your day, then you are essentially a sucker for buying the extended warranty.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

chicagobrownblue said:


> What is going to make this decision a bad one? Gigabit Internet, my cable company offering everything VOD going back for a year, who knows. Not willing to bet that lifetime is a good deal now.


You can always sell it. Comcast supports VOD through TiVo. Even with another provider, you could have an HD box (non DVR) for VOD and a TiVo. Or just TiVo stuff, and not need VOD, since most VOD sucks anyways.

Gigabit internet has nothing to do with anything.

The only reason you'd want to get rid of TiVo is if you want to move to satellite. FIOS and cable both support TiVo...


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## moonscape (Jul 3, 2004)

tarheelblue32 said:


> This is essentially true for all insurance policies. You are always better off self-insuring than you are buying the insurance, unless you have better information than the insurer does about the risk of loss under the policy.


Yep - I have had better info on how much I use my notebook computers and they =always= have issues during the warranty period. My first was an Osborne Executive lugable - no insurance on that! But then I had two Toshibas, two Microns, two Dells and am on my 2nd HP. After the Microns I learned to get on-site warranty (time factor, not being able to talk to person directly repairing, etc) and my Dells and one HP both needed power supplies, mother boards, keyboards, screens, and compurter repair was here the next business day. I insure them for 4 and 5 years respectively.

I can afford a new computer, but those warranties have been worth gold. I'm either hard on my notebooks or a lemon magnet.

Other than notebooks, I agree! The only other insurance I get is for my home, car, and health. That said, $30 for several years on my lifetimed Roamio Pro w/ lifetime might've made sense ...


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

squiddohio said:


> The fact that an individual does not have the ready cash to purchase the Lifetime has no bearing on whether or not Lifetime is the wiser purchase from an economic standpoint. Not everybody has the capital to purchase the more expensive item that will, in the long run, cost less. The numbers are objectively determinable, but subjectively cannot always be implemented due to one's present situation.


That post sums it ALL up right there, and is the best answer given that I recall in this drawn out, horse beaten thread.


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## JSY (Nov 6, 2002)

There always seems to be some battle between people who like lifetime and those who don't and each side seems to want to have to justify their decision. Everyone has their own situation and reasons. 

I am surprised that I almost never hear anyone bring up time value of money. That is the main catalyst why TiVo even offers lifetime in the first place. They have this expectation of how long they think their hardware will last - and then assign a lump sum value to it. For people whose TiVos last less than their calculated time, it works out better for them - and for those whose TiVos last longer, it works against them. But the main thing is it is to TiVo's advantage to take as much money as they can from you now, rather than have you pay over a period of time. Your $500 today is worth more to them than your $500 spread over the next 3 years. They can take that money you give today and invest it to accrue more than what $500 would be after 3 years. So, when I hear that TiVo loses out on the lifetimes - I think for the most part that is simply not true overall. If they are consistently losing out, they would not have a lifetime program. They're not that stupid.

So, in the same token, if you calculate that a $500 lifetime cost comes out to about 36 monthly payments and you take the lifetime - and your hardware dies permanently at the end of 36 months, then you will come out at a loss. You could have taken the $500 lifetime and invested that to accrue more than $500 over that period. If your hardware lasts longer than that - then you will start to come out ahead.

But no one knows when the hardware will die. So, some take the gamble, and some don't. We really don't need to be criticizing those who don't choose lifetime and those who do.

(My personal situation is that I do pay monthly and won't go lifetime for any existing TiVo because I do not want to lose the $12.95/$6.95 rate when I change my hardware. I tried to lifetime my extra 3rd TiVoHD recently but they wanted I think $499 or $599 so I just retired it.)


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

The main reason that time value of money isn't brought up very often is because with the relatively small amounts we are talking about and the relatively short time scales we are working with, it's almost a non-factor in the decision. If you were to take the time to calculate TVM into the equation, it might make the break even point for lifetime a month further into the future. That's almost a rounding error.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

JSY said:


> ...
> I am surprised that I almost never hear anyone bring up time value of money.
> ...


I would love to have a reason to bring it up, but given the amount of interest my bank is paying me it really is pennies. Heck the last charge card I got gave me free interest on purchases for a year so it is hard to even figure much cost if you borrow the money.

So like tarheelblue32 said all it does at most is change the break even point by a month or so and like I said before you can not know which way is better ahead of time but it is easy to know in hindsight.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

JSY said:


> ...
> 
> But no one knows when the hardware will die. So, some take the gamble, and some don't. We really don't need to be criticizing those who don't choose lifetime and those who do.
> ...


I agree but lets be clear it is a gamble if you buy lifetime and if you don't buy lifetime, only one way will be cheaper in the long run and we can not know that until the break even point is reached.

I think what most people are really disagreeing on is what the risk factors are and which way has more risk of costing you more money. I personally believe that paying monthly has a higher risk of costing more than buying lifetime.


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## mpnret (Dec 4, 2012)

JSY said:


> But no one knows when the hardware will die. So, some take the gamble, and some don't.


Looks like the odds are really with those who choose lifetime. Hardware dying is fairly remote and even if it does: "WeaKnees Flat Fee Repairs - NOTE: If you have lifetime TiVo service, we PRESERVE it during these repairs!"


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

mpnret said:


> Looks like the odds are really with those who choose lifetime. Hardware dying is fairly remote and even if it does: "WeaKnees Flat Fee Repairs - NOTE: If you have lifetime TiVo service, we PRESERVE it during these repairs!"


Yeah, it's a really good bet, and even if you lose one over time, chances are you will still come out way ahead. The only thing that can fail to take out Lifetime service is the motherboard. The PSU and hard drive are replaceable, keeping Lifetime.


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## JSY (Nov 6, 2002)

I do agree that hardware does last a while - my TiVos have lasted quite some time, but remember - when you repair/replace the HD, you're basically increasing the cost you paid for the lifetime.

As far as TVM and how little interest you'd gain today - that is a good point. However a 3yr CD rate is higher than a typical savings account. LOL all 1% of it.

I guess I mean whatever floats your boat should be your choice - but to make fun of people who choose differently from you - that's just silly. No one knows the situation of the other person and what's best for them.


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## jasonfox (Oct 24, 2007)

Is there still a market for series 1 Tivo's? My Sony series 1 with lifetime has been gathering dust for a while. If it's worth something maybe it's time to put it up on eBay and see about adding Lifetime to my Roamio.


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## moonscape (Jul 3, 2004)

There were a couple of completed eBay auctions where they got $70-80 for them. I was surprised ...


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

JSY said:


> So, in the same token, if you calculate that a $500 lifetime cost comes out to about 36 monthly payments and you take the lifetime - and your hardware dies permanently at the end of 36 months, then you will come out at a loss. You could have taken the $500 lifetime and invested that to accrue more than $500 over that period. If your hardware lasts longer than that - then you will start to come out ahead.


For the 14th million time, it's $400 (not $500) if you just do the bare minimum of research (or already have MSD). So the breakeven is a little more than 2 years, not 3. I'll take that bet on whether the hardware will last that long. And again your analysis completely ignores resale value which essentially makes lifetime pay for itself.

It always helps if you have the correct numbers, and in almost all cases they work in favor of lifetime.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

JSY said:


> I guess I mean whatever floats your boat should be your choice - but to make fun of people who choose differently from you - that's just silly. No one knows the situation of the other person and what's best for them.


No one is making fun of the folks that make poor decisions with monthly (or have no choice, financially, but then why the hell are they buying a luxury like Tivo??). We're simply pointing out the lack of logic in the decision.


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## mpnret (Dec 4, 2012)

JSY said:


> I do agree that hardware does last a while - my TiVos have lasted quite some time, but remember - when you repair/replace the HD, you're basically increasing the cost you paid for the lifetime.


Doesn't make sense. The cost of replacing the hard drive is the same whether you are on monthly or lifetime. If you were on monthly and a hard drive fails and you decide not to replace it you now have the cost of replacement unit.


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## JSY (Nov 6, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> For the 14th million time, it's $400 (not $500) if you just do the bare minimum of research (or already have MSD). So the breakeven is a little more than 2 years, not 3. I'll take that bet on whether the hardware will last that long. And again your analysis completely ignores resale value which essentially makes lifetime pay for itself.
> 
> It always helps if you have the correct numbers, and in almost all cases they work in favor of lifetime.


First of all *slowbiscuit*, I was just using numbers as an example because people have different monthly fees. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the $400 only if you buy the TiVo from a third party and use a code that isn't exactly widespread and known to probably the majority of TiVo owners out there - especially those who don't come to this forum? My "bare minimum of research" was from TiVo asking me to pay $499 for lifetime on my TiVoHD. Are you saying that I could have gotten lifetime for $400 on my TiVoHD or even on my Roamio Pro that I bought from TiVo? If you're using numbers based on conditions and information that is not widely known and not available to all, then I believe you need to rethink your apparent attempt at ridiculing my research methods.

I won't address your second comment about poor decisions and lack of logic. That's exactly the type of behavior I'm talking about. Talk about not making fun of people but then basically calling them illogical. Between you and others calling monthly payers, idiots, you're basically saying the majority of TiVo's user base are idiots. Without these idiots, you'd likely have no TiVo to praise - you realize that.. Or are you really naive to think the majority of TiVo users have lifetimes?

Anyway, since when was TiVo a "luxury" product? It's supposed to replace or even come in lower in cost than the cost of a cable co DVR, remember? Since when was a cable co DVR considered luxury?

And *mpnret*, I was using that comment to address people talking about hardware rarely dying. I said in my original reply that if your hardware hasn't died by breakeven point then lifetime wins. This was mean for hardware dying before breakeven.

Oh, well - I suspected my comments would bring up ridicule and tension. I just think this is a really good topic for discussion as it would help people decide - but it always ends up with one side trying to make the other side look stupid in order to justify their own actions.


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## mpnret (Dec 4, 2012)

JSY said:


> And *mpnret*, I was using that comment to address people talking about hardware rarely dying. I said in my original reply that if your hardware hasn't died by breakeven point then lifetime wins. This was mean for hardware dying before breakeven.


I don't think anyone is out to make anyone else look stupid. Some of us are, however, questioning your logic. I responded to a comment you made about the hard drive dying and my response still stands. It cost the same to replace the hard drive in a unit with monthly as it does it does to replace the hard drive in a unit with lifetime. Doesn't matter if it is before or after the break even point. Once the drive is replaced time marches on to the break even point.
As far as the cost of lifetime goes it's common knowledge on the forum that you can get it for $399. or even less. I just got it on my one year old Premier for $99. and I will be adding lifetime on my couple month old Roamio for $399. soon. But even using the $499 cost you mentioned, lifetime still beats monthly.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

JSY said:


> Anyway, since when was TiVo a "luxury" product? It's supposed to replace or even come in lower in cost than the cost of a cable co DVR, remember? Since when was a cable co DVR considered luxury?


Since when is a dvr or in fact cable TV required for survival? Unlike food, shelter, heat, electric, etc.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

JSY said:


> Anyway, since when was TiVo a "luxury" product? It's supposed to replace or even come in lower in cost than the cost of a cable co DVR, remember? Since when was a cable co DVR considered luxury?


Any DVR is a luxury product. Yes, a tivo can save over using a cableco DVR in certain (most?) instances, but that is a luxury product as well. Heck, TV in general is a luxury (not to mention the premiums we pay for cable).


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

brianric said:


> Since when is a dvr or in fact cable TV required for survival? Unlike food, shelter, heat, electric, etc.


There are lots of things I could survive without (TV, movies, sports....any form of entertainment at all really, sex, food that tastes good, bathing, grooming, deodorant), but life would be much less enjoyable without those things. "Survival" is a pretty low standard. In fact, I'm pretty sure that people were able to "survive" prior to the discovery of electricity, but I certainly wouldn't want to live without it.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Pay TV is somewhat of a luxury. Basic (DSL speed) internet access and a smartphone are becoming necessities now, since the world expects you to have them in some form.

50mbps internet, a quad-tuner TiVo and 150+ channels are luxury items... However, at the same time, they aren't on the same level as a hot tub, a sauna, a steam shower, a Bimmer/Benz/Audi/Jag, an in-ground heated pool, a large house, etc, etc.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Bigg said:


> Pay TV is somewhat of a luxury. Basic (DSL speed) internet access and a smartphone are becoming necessities now, since the world expects you to have them in some form.


I don't have a smartphone, nor do I plan on getting one for the foreseeable future. Wireless data prices are obscenely high in my opinion, and are therefore a luxury. One man's necessity is another man's luxury.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

You pay more in the long run if you make monthly payments so that's why lifetime is a good idea.

Also you break even on paper way before 33 months because of resale value.

And it is going to cost you $$$$ if your Tivo breaks whether you have lifetime or not. You can pay to repair your old Tivo if you have lifetime and thus keep lifetime. IF you have monthly maybe you would just get a new Tivo but it will still cost you quite a bit.

Like anything, some will get lifetime and feel ripped off when their Tivo dies in 2 years. And swear lifetime is a bad idea. I mean people have died with seatbelts on too that wouldn't have died if they had their seatbelts off. Does that mean seatbelts are a bad idea?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

trip1eX said:


> You pay more in the long run if you make monthly payments so that's why lifetime is a good idea.
> 
> Also you break even on paper way before 33 months because of resale value.
> 
> ...


There have been some posts by people that added up the total cost of their TiVo on monthly + TiVo purchase and it was over $1,100, Lifetime would have been a better option in that case, other don't want to bother with E-Bay or other means of re-sale so for them the Lifetime break even cost is longer, In my experience you can get most (or all) of your Lifetime cost back with a 3 to 4 year old HD TiVo listed on E-Bay, at that point Lifetime is a no-brainer as the cost is $399 - the first month service cost as you would have to pay that anyways, and TiVo can't raise the monthly cost to you, and if your state ups the sales tax rate it will be no extra cost to you.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

trip1eX said:


> I mean people have died with seatbelts on too that wouldn't have died if they had their seatbelts off.


You be hard pressed to prove that point.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

JSY said:


> Oh, well - I suspected my comments would bring up ridicule and tension. I just think this is a really good topic for discussion as it would help people decide - but it always ends up with one side trying to make the other side look stupid in order to justify their own actions.


The bottom line is that monthly is a sucker bet and the folks paying it either refuse to admit the facts or can't afford the upfront cost of lifetime. But it does help Tivo so if you want to justify it that way it's all good for you. That's pretty much it.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

slowbiscuit said:


> The bottom line is that monthly is a sucker bet and the folks paying it either refuse to admit the facts or can't afford the upfront cost of lifetime. But it does help Tivo so if you want to justify it that way it's all good for you. That's pretty much it.


Stores that rent furniture, HDTV etc. exist because people use them, check cashing places that charge you for each check you cash exist, why, because people use them. Monthly exist for TiVo, why, because people use that method to pay TiVo for the service, if 99.9% of TiVo owners used Lifetime TiVo would stop monthly. I once took the time to figure out my monthly cost of my TiVos after an upgrade and sale of the old TiVo, it was from almost zero to a max of about $3/month, so even the $6.95 rate is not a good deal over the long run for anybody that can use E-Bay (or other methods) to sell the old TiVo.
I would, however, not use the work *sucker* to describe TiVo monthly users, as monthly is not any type of TiVo con game.


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## c133roamioerrors (Dec 28, 2013)

This thread is currently at 6 pages. The amount of money for the monthly service is very small for most peoples budgets. My Comcast triple play bill is over $200 a month.
I spend about $60 a month when I buy lunch at work. That could be eliminated by brown bagging, which is what I did when my income was lower.
The lifetime vs monthly has turned into a pissing contest about who is smarter.


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## squiddohio (Dec 21, 2001)

"That could be eliminated by brown bagging. . ."
No. That expense could be reduced by brown bagging, unless you get cold cuts for free and your time has no value.
But I agree that it's time to move on . . .


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Here's a question, if someone said they'd give you $75 right now, or $100 2 years from now, which would you take?


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## c133roamioerrors (Dec 28, 2013)

HarperVision said:


> Here's a question, if someone said they'd give you $75 right now, or $100 2 years from now, which would you take?


Make it $750 or $1000, I would say I really don't care.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

c133roamioerrors said:


> The lifetime vs monthly has turned into a pissing contest about who is smarter.


... Or who is dumber, or denser, or less risk adverse. 

I can't believe this thread didn't die 150 replies ago.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Wait lifetime users. The finances are the finances. If everyone went lifetime then we would all have to pay a higher price as the monthly provides us a subsidy. Go Monthly!


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I don't have a smartphone, nor do I plan on getting one for the foreseeable future. Wireless data prices are obscenely high in my opinion, and are therefore a luxury. One man's necessity is another man's luxury.


2005 wants you back. Wireless data isn't that bad. The data plans are $30/mo on the older plans, and some newer plans like Mobile Share Value are great, as they bundle everything together.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Bigg said:


> 2005 wants you back. Wireless data isn't that bad. The data plans are $30/mo on the older plans, and some newer plans like Mobile Share Value are great, as they bundle everything together.


Right now my family pays Verizon a total of $81/month (taxes and fees included) for 3 basic cell phones. If my family upgraded to 3 smartphones w/4GB of shared data, our bill would be over $200/month, which would be about $1,500/year over what we pay now. No thanks.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Right now my family pays Verizon a total of $81/month (taxes and fees included) for 3 basic cell phones. If my family upgraded to 3 smartphones w/4GB of shared data, our bill would be over $200/month, which would be about $1,500/year over what we pay now. No thanks.


I have most of the new toys (Surface 2 pro 80" HDTV with 3D etc) but I still use my flip phone, I have 4 on my plan with a total cost of $90/month from Version, smart phones are too big to fit into my shirt pocket and I don't work where I may have needed one, so my home computers are smart enough for me and my wife.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I'll tell you.

Back in the day when TiVo released the original S3 w/OLED display, they took away the option to get lifetime service.

I thought 'well, I won't be buying any more Tivos anytime soon', and I really wanted an S3. I thought the OLED display was cool, plus it's not all that ugly either. But because TiVo didn't offer lifetime, they lost an $800 sale.

I think TiVo figured out pretty quickly that was a bad idea, because they brought lifetime back shortly after releasing the Tivo HD.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

c133roamioerrors said:


> This thread is currently at 6 pages. ......
> The lifetime vs monthly has turned into a pissing contest about who is smarter.





waynomo said:


> ... Or who is dumber, or denser, or less risk adverse.
> I can't believe this thread didn't die 150 replies ago.


It doesn't do any good to point this out, as I did **way** back in post #114:


dlfl said:


> LOL.... The old "is PLS a good deal" topic. Always a reliable way to launch a huge thread that doesn't settle anything.


Let's face it: Pissing contests are very popular!


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Right now my family pays Verizon a total of $81/month (taxes and fees included) for 3 basic cell phones. If my family upgraded to 3 smartphones w/4GB of shared data, our bill would be over $200/month, which would be about $1,500/year over what we pay now. No thanks.


Yeah and we have 5 people on T-Mobile, all with smartphones, and pay $117 a month all inclusive. With unlimited talk, text, and 1GB of data a month (which we mostly don't use because we're on Wifi).

It's really not as expensive as you think if you're willing to shop around, depending on your coverage where you live.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

jrtroo said:


> Wait lifetime users. The finances are the finances. If everyone went lifetime then we would all have to pay a higher price as the monthly provides us a subsidy. Go Monthly!


+1000. Monthly folks like giving Tivo more money so if that enables them to keep offering lifetime to those willing to think things through I'm all for it.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Right now my family pays Verizon a total of $81/month (taxes and fees included) for 3 basic cell phones. If my family upgraded to 3 smartphones w/4GB of shared data, our bill would be over $200/month, which would be about $1,500/year over what we pay now. No thanks.


For cell phones that can't do 90% of what a smartphone can. There are prepaid options with Unlimited talk/text/data for $45/mo per line, as well as AT&T's new Mobile Share Value which would be $145/mo for three smartphones sharing 10GB of data, although it doesn't include the device subsidies, but you can shop around, buy used phones or unlocked devices and save a lot.

If you're in an area where Verizon's coverage is far better than anyone else's, then you're stuck selling your soul to the devil for good coverage. Although even if that's the case, smartphones on another carrier are way more useful than voice phones with great coverage that can't really DO anything.

Smartphones are standard now. Get with the times.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Bigg said:


> If you're in an area where Verizon's coverage is far better than anyone else's, then you're stuck selling your soul to the devil for good coverage.


This is essentially the situation I am in. Nobody else has decent coverage in my area, so what good is a cell phone if you can't make a phone call half the time you want to?



Bigg said:


> Smartphones are standard now. Get with the times.


LOL well, you could say the same thing about lots of different things. Some people don't have broadband internet, not because they don't have options for it, but because they don't feel that they need it. And some people make due with OTA rather than paid TV, because they don't feel they need to pay for the extras they don't really want or need.

For the time being at least, I am more than satisfied using my laptop to do whatever it is I want to do online and just using a cell phone as a phone, and until that changes I see no reason to pay $1,500/year more for something I don't feel that I truly need right now.


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## moonscape (Jul 3, 2004)

It's not a financial issue for me, but a fact that when out on private time, I like having the world be a connection-free zone, except for my iPad when needed, but that's on a deliberate, not always-on, basis. I've gotten so rebellious about the phone that most of the time my cell is in my car, charging in the console: my flip phone w/out data plan that is.

I realize I'm in the huge minority, but it boils down to need and preference, that's all.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

I have a Verizon smart phone with bare bones 250 MB data per month with unlimited text and voice for $55/month. If I need any serious data downloading I use wi-fi.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Did I accidentally go to the cellphonesrus forum on my forumrunner app? 



dlfl said:


> It doesn't do any good to point this out, as I did **way** back in post #114: Let's face it: Pissing contests are very popular!


.......Unless you have a bad prostate, that is!


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## mpaquette (Aug 1, 2005)

I just used PLSR to add lifetime to my new Roamio. I guess that means I'm really dumb or really smart.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

moonscape said:


> It's not a financial issue for me, but a fact that when out on private time, I like having the world be a connection-free zone, except for my iPad when needed, but that's on a deliberate, not always-on, basis. I've gotten so rebellious about the phone that most of the time my cell is in my car, charging in the console: my flip phone w/out data plan that is.
> 
> I realize I'm in the huge minority, but it boils down to need and preference, that's all.


It's an interesting conundrum! Can you imagine not having the internet?
Can you imagine a kid trying to compete without it?
The point is mobile internet is the next level of competitive advantage.
Those that have it are finding local coupons, buying tickets, finding directions, bidding on that auction, ...

I remember a quick impulse trip to LA to get Portillos Hot Dogs. We brought out iPad and we are able to get around in the car without issue.

The point is life is cheaper if you have the ability to search efficiently.

Or you could go to the library and look through newspapers and then get out your fold out map.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## mpnret (Dec 4, 2012)

mpaquette said:


> I just used PLSR to add lifetime to my new Roamio. I guess that means I'm really dumb or really smart.


You should have stayed on monthly, paid with a credit card and then made minimum payments on the card. You know, just in case TiVo goes belly up. Then you could dispute the charge for unused days if necessary.

I plan to do the same as you with my Roamio. Just haven't got around to it yet. Just curious did you purchase from TiVo and use the PLSR code or purchase 3rd party?

That sarcasm brings up an interesting thought. What if you buy lifetime and TiVo did go belly up? I wonder if you could dispute any of the charge. Years ago I had Sunrocket IP phone service. It was $200. for 2 years I think. Anyway a little over a year they went belly up and I disputed the over 1 year old charge and received almost 50% back. The difference may be that Sunrocket stated 2 years and TiVo states lifetime and somewhere in t&c's I bet they have a definition of lifetime which I am sure is not to my advantage.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Odds are that if tivo went belly up a repeat of the replyTV scenario would play out. Somebody would purchase it to provide guide data and receive the royalty payments.


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## c133roamioerrors (Dec 28, 2013)

Barring an anti trust violation, Comcast should buy Tivo, quit selling them and provide them as an upgraded monthly fee option. They would continue to provide the Tivo service to those with the lifetime option until all the older Tivos crapped out.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

c133roamioerrors said:


> Barring an anti trust violation, Comcast should buy Tivo, quit selling them and provide them as an upgraded monthly fee option. They would continue to provide the Tivo service to those with the lifetime option until all the older Tivos crapped out.


I really hope you are joking.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

tarheelblue32 said:


> This is essentially the situation I am in. Nobody else has decent coverage in my area, so what good is a cell phone if you can't make a phone call half the time you want to?
> 
> LOL well, you could say the same thing about lots of different things. Some people don't have broadband internet, not because they don't have options for it, but because they don't feel that they need it. And some people make due with OTA rather than paid TV, because they don't feel they need to pay for the extras they don't really want or need.
> 
> For the time being at least, I am more than satisfied using my laptop to do whatever it is I want to do online and just using a cell phone as a phone, and until that changes I see no reason to pay $1,500/year more for something I don't feel that I truly need right now.


If coverage is important to you, then you have a few options. You could just sell your soul to the devil for the coverage, you could get an MVNO that uses Verizon's network, or you could move your main phones to something else, and have a Verizon-based Tracfone as a backup... I'd definitely just sell my soul to the devil if I lived in an area where they have much better coverage than AT&T. Luckily, AT&T has the best coverage in my area...



zalusky said:


> It's an interesting conundrum! Can you imagine not having the internet?
> Can you imagine a kid trying to compete without it?
> The point is mobile internet is the next level of competitive advantage.
> Those that have it are finding local coupons, buying tickets, finding directions, bidding on that auction, ...
> ...


Exactly. Having a smartphone makes traveling SO much better too. I've found many places to eat or go, or looked up opening time information or directions, etc, using a smartphone. Even a well planned trip can fall apart for all sorts of reasons, and having a smartphone to get it quickly back on track pays the price of the data many, many times over. I've been lucky to have access to AT&T and Verizon phones on the last two trips I've been on, both LTE on the last one. Usually, both worked fine.


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## mpnret (Dec 4, 2012)

jrtroo said:


> Odds are that if tivo went belly up a repeat of the replyTV scenario would play out. Somebody would purchase it to provide guide data and receive the royalty payments.


Yup, my RTV5040 still works, guide data and all. Not much use for it anymore. Guess I should see what it will fetch on ebay.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

c133roamioerrors said:


> Barring an anti trust violation, Comcast should buy Tivo, quit selling them and provide them as an upgraded monthly fee option. They would continue to provide the Tivo service to those with the lifetime option until all the older Tivos crapped out.


That could be a long time, considering Replay TV is still providing guide data for those on lifetime plans.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

mpnret said:


> Yup, my RTV5040 still works, guide data and all. Not much use for it anymore. Guess I should see what it will fetch on ebay.


I had one of those, plus a 4000 series. I felt at the time Relay TV came out it was a better DVR than Tivo with the commercial advance and file sharing. Shame they got sued out of business.


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## moonscape (Jul 3, 2004)

zalusky said:


> I remember a quick impulse trip to LA to get Portillos Hot Dogs. We brought out iPad and we are able to get around in the car without issue.
> 
> The point is life is cheaper if you have the ability to search efficiently.


Oh, I agree. Between my GPS and iPad (which I typically have with me for calendar and as-needed on a bare-bones data plan), it provides all that and more. Heck, Garmin alone will find Portillo HDs ...

To the person who referenced hijacking the thread away from Tivo, um lifetime, I figured my participation in that was doing the dead-horse thread a favor  ... but okay, I'll quit about my lack of need for a smart phone!


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

moonscape said:


> I can afford a new computer, but those warranties have been worth gold. I'm either hard on my notebooks or a lemon magnet.
> 
> Other than notebooks, I agree!


Can I lend you my 10 year old Compaq notebook? Still working after all these years with the original hard drive but memory bumped up to 2 GB.

And, a recent post elsewhere indicates that Word 2010 is the target of an unpatched vulnerability in Windows. I guess my Word/Outlook 2003 on my XP notebook won't get a hacker his Office merit bag.


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## johnh123 (Dec 7, 2000)

moonscape said:


> Oh, I agree. Between my GPS and iPad (which I typically have with me for calendar and as-needed on a bare-bones data plan), it provides all that and more. Heck, Garmin alone will find Portillo HDs ...
> 
> To the person who referenced hijacking the thread away from Tivo, um lifetime, I figured my participation in that was doing the dead-horse thread a favor  ... but okay, I'll quit about my lack of need for a smart phone!


I didn't realize you guys have portillos out there. I guess I could live in California after all.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

moonscape said:


> Oh, I agree. Between my GPS and iPad (which I typically have with me for calendar and as-needed on a bare-bones data plan), it provides all that and more. Heck, Garmin alone will find Portillo HDs ...
> 
> To the person who referenced hijacking the thread away from Tivo, um lifetime, I figured my participation in that was doing the dead-horse thread a favor  ... but okay, I'll quit about my lack of need for a smart phone!


With a data plan on an iPad, you've got the same functionality... you just need, um, really big pockets to carry it. A rather bizarre "solution" for sure...


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> The bottom line is that monthly is a sucker bet and the folks paying it either refuse to admit the facts or can't afford the upfront cost of lifetime. But it does help Tivo so if you want to justify it that way it's all good for you. That's pretty much it.


Wow, you just can't discuss anything without resorting to nastiness. Sucker bet? Why would anyone listen to a thing you have to say when you are such a jerk about it? I imagine that you spend lots of time watching your Tivo Roamio....alone.


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## moonscape (Jul 3, 2004)

Bigg said:


> With a data plan on an iPad, you've got the same functionality... you just need, um, really big pockets to carry it. A rather bizarre "solution" for sure...


The benefit of carrying a purse


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

bengalfreak said:


> Wow, you just can't discuss anything without resorting to nastiness. Sucker bet? Why would anyone listen to a thing you have to say when you are such a jerk about it? I imagine that you spend lots of time watching your Tivo Roamio....alone.


No, not really. But thanks for the compliments!


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

bengalfreak said:


> Wow, you just can't discuss anything without resorting to nastiness. Sucker bet? Why would anyone listen to a thing you have to say when you are such a jerk about it? I imagine that you spend lots of time watching your Tivo Roamio....*alone*.


So True. With all the time some of these posters spend on these boards arguing I'm not so sure they watch much TiVo. Just enough time to complain about it.

That being said the lifetime issue is a lease vs own scenario. But unlike cars TiVo doesn't release a new model each year nor can you take a tax deduction on the lease.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Pot, meet kettle.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

CloudAtlas said:


> But unlike cars TiVo doesn't release a new model each year nor can you take a tax deduction on the lease.


You can't take a tax deduction on a car lease either.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

tarheelblue32 said:


> You can't take a tax deduction on a car lease either.


In a business you can.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

lessd said:


> In a business you can.


Only to the extent it is actually used for business purposes. And FYI, you could deduct a TiVo too if it were used for business purposes.


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