# HDUI Speed



## OSXFreak (Sep 29, 2007)

Ive had the Tivo Premiere for a few months now and LOVE IT so far.. As many have done I've moved over to the SD Menu's and have been (ok, Wife has been) happy with that. 

But I was surfiing and made my way here. So the big Q... Has the HDUI gotten better? I'm on 14.5 software, so just wonderingif we're now faster and more responsive, or same ole story?

If there is a Thread on the HDUI and it is recent or talking about the latest 14.5 release, feel free to point me to that thread 

Thanks

Chip


----------



## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

The 14.5 software has made the HDUI a lot faster then when it first came. It stills needs some more work on the speed.


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Still needs a lot more work. I moved back to the SD menus. Until the HDUI can be as fast as the SDUI, I am probably just not interested.


----------



## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

OSXFreak said:


> Ive had the Tivo Premiere for a few months now and LOVE IT so far.. As many have done I've moved over to the SD Menu's and have been (ok, Wife has been) happy with that.
> 
> But I was surfiing and made my way here. So the big Q... Has the HDUI gotten better? I'm on 14.5 software, so just wonderingif we're now faster and more responsive, or same ole story?
> 
> ...


14.5 is still too slow and unstable to be usable, unfortunately. I've written off the HD UI until late 2011. We'll check in each time there's a version change, but given all the work they have to do to even FINISH the HD UI menus, and the galacial pace of fixes so far, it's going to be a long while.


----------



## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

curiousgeorge said:


> 14.5 is still too slow and unstable to be usable, unfortunately. I've written off the HD UI until late 2011. We'll check in each time there's a version change, but given all the work they have to do to even FINISH the HD UI menus, and the galacial pace of fixes so far, it's going to be a long while.


"late 2011"? That's a year. I think you should be able to give them more credit than that. I hear the beta builds are even faster. Personally I hated the speed of the HDUI but once 14.5 came I switched for good to HD.


----------



## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

b_scott said:


> "late 2011"? That's a year. I think you should be able to give them more credit than that. I hear the beta builds are even faster. Personally I hated the speed of the HDUI but once 14.5 came I switched for good to HD.


Well, it's been 5 months and we've had almost NO progress on actually FINISHING the menus so they're all in HD. NO progress in putting existing SD UI features in the HD UI, and very SMALL progress in speed/stability.

I think doubling that time to finish everything that's left to port from the SD UI (and that's a LOT), and make it stable and fast, AND get the new HD UI features working right is a really tall order. I would love to be proven wrong, but I just don't see the Premiere advertised that we all bought actually being the Premiere we own before the end of 2011.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I couldn't imagine using only the SDUI on any of my Premieres. I can't stand the SD menus any more. Of course I'm not having any freezing issues or any reboots with my HDUI either.


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

I recently got a Premiere and still have an S3 OLED as well. I tried the HDUI on Premiere briefly and couldn't stand it - very slow and annoying for me compared to the SDUI and the S3 UI. I'll be sticking to the SDUI so hopefully TiVo continues to support that going forwards. So I have completely opposite take to aaronwt - I couldn't imagine using HDUI as it is right now. To think that HDUI was worse in previous releases doesn't inspire much confidence that it will ever be usable for me.


----------



## DaveWhittle (Jul 25, 2002)

I think the current ver. 14.5 is reasonably fast. I don't spend that much time in the menus, so the current speed allows me to get to the show I want and start playing quick enough. Of course I would welcome it to be snappier, but I don't notice the menu speed anymore. Any haven't had any lockup since the new update.

btw, I have the video window in the HD-UI turned off.


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Another thing that's become very annoying is 30 sec skip (not the scan, that is way too slow as well) and 8 sec skip back are much slower than my S3. The current frame you are on when you start the skip freezes for a second or so before the skip completes, making rapid succession of skips pretty impossible. My S3 response to skips is almost instantaneous and much more agreeable.

P.S. This is not related to HDUI or SDUI. The slow skip behavior during playback applies to either mode.


----------



## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

moyekj said:


> I recently got a Premiere and still have an S3 OLED as well. I tried the HDUI on Premiere briefly and couldn't stand it - very slow and annoying for me compared to the SDUI and the S3 UI. I'll be sticking to the SDUI so hopefully TiVo continues to support that going forwards. So I have completely opposite take to aaronwt - I couldn't imagine using HDUI as it is right now. To think that HDUI was worse in previous releases doesn't inspire much confidence that it will ever be usable for me.


I think more people agree the HDUI is sluggish and are using the SD mode than happy with the HDUI. I *hate* the HDUI as it is now. Can't stand it. I put the HD mode on our bedroom TiVo without saying anything to see what my wife would say and she *freaked out* when she turned the TV on and tired to use it, demanding that I "fix" the TiVo.

I think that says it all.

Maybe it's because we're TiVo veterans, there from Day 1, Series 1 - perhaps our expectations of a TiVo are higher because they've always delivered, and this Premiere software is SUCH a miss for the company? I dunno. It's just very, very disappointing on so many levels.


----------



## Rastven (Aug 4, 2010)

curiousgeorge said:


> I put the HD mode on our bedroom TiVo without saying anything to see what my wife would say and she *freaked out* when she turned the TV on and tired to use it, demanding that I "fix" the TiVo.
> 
> I think that says it all.


No, that says your wife has habituated to the SDUI, hence the demand you "fix" the unit.


----------



## colforbin13 (Jan 31, 2005)

Coming from a nightlight S2 unit to the Premiere, the HDUI on the Premiere is about the same, and possibly a bit snappier than the SDUI on the S2. So for me, it's good enough now. The SDUI is blazingly fast compared to my S2, but I like the look of the HDUI now and don't see myself going back.


----------



## Tony Chick (Jun 20, 2002)

As a returning TiVo user, I was disappointed to find the old UI looking pretty much the same as 1999, kind of like going back to MS-DOS after using Windows or Mac. It needs an HD UI, its not a 480i world anymore but I'm not sure the design direction they've taken is the way to go, it looks kind to thrown together. They should ditch Flash and start over, use HTML-5 and basically make the UI a browser.


----------



## belunos (Sep 19, 2002)

I can see why they went with flash, but I still think it was a bad move. Especially since they still have one of the cores disabled


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

belunos said:


> I can see why they went with flash, but I still think it was a bad move. Especially since they still have one of the cores disabled


There is no evidence that the Flash system they used is multithreaded, thus adding an additional core might make little to no difference in interface performance.


----------



## TivoRocks193 (Aug 10, 2005)

crxssi said:


> There is no evidence that the Flash system they used is multithreaded, thus adding an additional core might make little to no difference in interface performance.


Flash isn't multi-threaded, so no it wouldn't directly improve UI performance speed. But that assumes 100% of the CPU is devoted to the UI. The TiVO runs a lot of background processes recording channels on multiple tuners, scheduling episodes, checking for updates, etc etc, so the second processor could help grant the UI access to the full force of one of the cores. Generally, though, you need a better graphics card with hardware acceleration enabled in Flash to see substantial improvements.


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

TivoRocks193 said:


> Flash isn't multi-threaded, so no it wouldn't directly improve UI performance speed. But that assumes 100% of the CPU is devoted to the UI. The TiVO runs a lot of background processes recording channels on multiple tuners, scheduling episodes, checking for updates, etc etc, so the second processor could help grant the UI access to the full force of one of the cores. Generally, though, you need a better graphics card with hardware acceleration enabled in Flash to see substantial improvements.


While that is true, it would only help with hesitation when there is something else actually happening at the time (assuming the HDUI is not threaded). If you are not transferring programs over the network, or it is not housecleaning, then it wouldn't help. (Non network recording, itself, takes almost no CPU). My issue is that the HDUI is too slow, even when I am pretty confident that nothing else is happening at the time.

Also, this is not the same "Flash" as you have in a web browser. It probably does have other features and capabilities we probably don't know much about. We might be surprised.

It is all speculation, but I have to keep pointing out to people that "enabling the second core" is not an automatic/guaranteed improvement in the HDUI that many people seem to believe it will be. If it were, there is no reason that TiVo would not have already had it "on" except maybe to save a tiny bit of power.


----------



## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

crxssi said:


> While that is true, it would only help with hesitation when there is something else actually happening at the time (assuming the HDUI is not threaded). If you are not transferring programs over the network, or it is not housecleaning, then it wouldn't help. (Non network recording, itself, takes almost no CPU). My issue is that the HDUI is too slow, even when I am pretty confident that nothing else is happening at the time.
> 
> Also, this is not the same "Flash" as you have in a web browser. It probably does have other features and capabilities we probably don't know much about. We might be surprised.
> 
> It is all speculation, but I have to keep pointing out to people that "enabling the second core" is not an automatic/guaranteed improvement in the HDUI that many people seem to believe it will be. If it were, there is no reason that TiVo would not have already had it "on" except maybe to save a tiny bit of power.


The second core is not likely to have a appreciable effect.
The really long delays are disk or network based (downloading images etc).

Multi-threading can help but the programming can be complex (to debug).
If Flash is not thread-safe, they cannot turn on the second processor.

- Rich


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

In my limited use of the HDUI, flash in and of itself doesn't seem to be the most limiting/annoying part of the interface.

IMO, the most annoying part has been the integration of local and online content together. You click on a show you recorded, and then it insists on loading often unnecessary online content (graphics, etc) to go along with it. That's not really flash's fault. Tivo has always had poor online performance.

In effect, Tivo brought out the most annoying part of the interface -- the sluggish response of the apps -- into the everyday interface, and that's made it unusable to me. I don't *want* stock photos and other random junk cluttering up the interface if it's going to slow down my productivity... which it does quite handily. Minor tweaks won't solve that problem. It needs to be re-coded to buffer that stuff in advance, or let us turn it off.


----------



## DaveWhittle (Jul 25, 2002)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> You click on a show you recorded, and then it insists on loading often unnecessary online content (graphics, etc) to go along with it.


Try highlighting a show and, instead of hitting "select", press "play" instead. The show will immediately start.


----------



## TivoRocks193 (Aug 10, 2005)

crxssi said:


> Also, this is not the same "Flash" as you have in a web browser. It probably does have other features and capabilities we probably don't know much about. We might be surprised.


Yes, for fun TiVo reimplemented Flash in its spare time... that sounds perfectly logical...


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

TivoRocks193 said:


> Yes, for fun TiVo reimplemented Flash in its spare time... that sounds perfectly logical...


Yes, but not alone:



bkdtv said:


> *Why is the new HD user interface built in Adobe Flash?*
> 
> In the past, TiVo wrote all of its software in C, and that made updating and improving the interface difficult, especially with all the baggage accrued over the past decade. Developers required extensive knowledge of the code and its various dependencies to make changes. TiVo determined a major rewrite was necessary and plans were put in motion to do that.
> 
> ...


----------



## aaroncgi (Apr 13, 2010)

curiousgeorge said:


> I think more people agree the HDUI is sluggish and are using the SD mode than happy with the HDUI.
> ...
> Maybe it's because we're TiVo veterans, there from Day 1, Series 1 - perhaps our expectations of a TiVo are higher because they've always delivered, and this Premiere software is SUCH a miss for the company? I dunno. It's just very, very disappointing on so many levels.


My wife and I aren't Tivo veterans - the Premiere is our first Tivo. However, we did have a Dish Network DVR for four years prior to the Premiere. The four year old Dish unit was just as fast as the Premiere in SD mode for every operation, and faster for most functions. If Dish really was using Tivo's software, they were using it better than Tivo does. 

That said, the Premiere does meet our expectations, is good enough, and really is the only product on the market which will do what we need. It was just surprising that basic operations like menu navigation, FF/RW, etc, were all no better than our antiquated Dish unit, and mostly worse.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

IT's slower than sd menus, but it's easier on the eyes. So you can't win either way. 

Amazing they couldn't whip up a good hd menu for everything. I mean we're talking text here.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Being that I haven't bought a Premier (yet)...

It's really a shock and depressing to me that the new TiVo UI still is this buggy. I know, as a user who has a peanut remote that can read my mind, if had one that was that slow I'd be throwing it out the window.

How much does the HD UI depends on your Internet speed? 

I've posted that recently doing a YouTube search on my S3 drove me nuts. I have only 3MB DSL, often with a VPN running.


----------



## swhoskins (Sep 17, 2010)

I have to say that I really like the HDUI, but I am not bothered so much by the difference in speed. When we started using the HDUI, it took my wife and kids a little while to get used to seeing the new UI, but they all find it easy to use now.

The only problem I have had is that if I try to go to settings from the HDUI (even to change to SDUI if I wanted), it goes to a black screen with the non responsive remote status (yellow light flashes and I get the bonk noise). I have not had time to call customer service yet, but will do that soon to see if this is known bug or something specific to my machine. I can go to other SD menus, such as account information, just not to the settings menu.


----------



## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

netringer said:


> How much does the HD UI depends on your Internet speed?
> 
> I've posted that recently doing a YouTube search on S3 drove on my S3 me nuts. I have only 3MB DSL, often with a VPN running.


The network speed is not the primary problem with the HD UI. It has problems displaying Now Playing in a snappy manner, even with discovery bar stuff that's cached. Plus, in HD UI mode, the unit is unacceptably unstable, and reboots are always a looming danger when you least expect it.


----------



## belunos (Sep 19, 2002)

Now that I finally have my premiere up and running I feel I can better comment on this. I last used a directivo many years ago. Since then I used the HD DVR. Now, the HD DVR was faster than the Premiere, but I'm honestly not seeing much slowdown. The tivo central screen loads in about 1 sec after hitting the button. Not instant, but not horrible. I have it on a 5 port 5ghz n bridge, which is talking to a airport extreme upstairs on 5ghz.

The only thing that seems to slow stuff down for me is that discovery bar. When it loads fast everything loads fast. When it's lagging everything is lagging. Oh how I wish I could turn that off.


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

belunos said:


> The only thing that seems to slow stuff down for me is that discovery bar. When it loads fast everything loads fast. When it's lagging everything is lagging. Oh how I wish I could turn that off.


I couldn't possibly agree with you more. I want the choice to turn it off. I find it annoying, distracting, slow, mostly uninteresting/useless, and a waste of screen space.


----------



## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

crxssi said:


> I couldn't possibly agree with you more. I want the choice to turn it off. I find it annoying, distracting, slow, mostly uninteresting/useless, and a waste of screen space.


It pays the other other customers (advertisers) 

It makes perfect sense to allow users to turn it off. 
More space for the menus too.

- Rich


----------



## Mike Wolf (Sep 19, 2010)

Rastven said:


> No, that says your wife has habituated to the SDUI, hence the demand you "fix" the unit.


Being bossed around by the wife says it all as well. If she's demanding anything I'd say "do it yourself" I mean whats the problem with just using the HDUI and get used to it. Do it for a month, and THEN see what she thinks. It seems like they just got too used to the layout and don't like change. Sometimes change is good. This kinda thing ticks me off. Whats the point of even buying the Premiere if not for the HDUI?


----------



## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

Mike Wolf said:


> Being bossed around by the wife says it all as well. If she's demanding anything I'd say "do it yourself" I mean whats the problem with just using the HDUI and get used to it. Do it for a month, and THEN see what she thinks. It seems like they just got too used to the layout and don't like change. Sometimes change is good. This kinda thing ticks me off. Whats the point of even buying the Premiere if not for the HDUI?


There is an old Italian saying (translated): Everybody does their own thing in their own house. 

But to answer your question:

Faster network access
Bigger drive support
it is black
Potential for true streaming and DLNA support (I hope).

- Rich


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Mike Wolf said:


> Whats the point of even buying the Premiere if not for the HDUI?


MUCH faster network, faster SDUI, more than double the recording time, new equipment, less power, smaller box. There are reasons. Not as many as there SHOULD be, though.


----------



## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

Mike Wolf said:


> Being bossed around by the wife says it all as well. If she's demanding anything I'd say "do it yourself" I mean whats the problem with just using the HDUI and get used to it. Do it for a month, and THEN see what she thinks. It seems like they just got too used to the layout and don't like change. Sometimes change is good. This kinda thing ticks me off. Whats the point of even buying the Premiere if not for the HDUI?


If I *believed* in the HDUI, I would let her get used to it, but it *sucks* and after trying to like it, neither I nor my kids use it on the other two Premieres, so I found her reaction amusing and put it back.

Before I bought the Premiere, I was buying for the HDUI and all the new features, but now that the reality is the HDUI is an unstable, sluggish, unfinished MESS, the only thing I recommend the Premiere for (and use it daily in SDUI mode) is the 4-5x faster network transfer speeds.


----------



## Mike Wolf (Sep 19, 2010)

curiousgeorge said:


> If I *believed* in the HDUI, I would let her get used to it, but it *sucks* and after trying to like it, neither I nor my kids use it on the other two Premieres, so I found her reaction amusing and put it back.
> 
> Before I bought the Premiere, I was buying for the HDUI and all the new features, but now that the reality is the HDUI is an unstable, sluggish, unfinished MESS, the only thing I recommend the Premiere for (and use it daily in SDUI mode) is the 4-5x faster network transfer speeds.


I was reading something in one of these threads on this site and a few people have commented that the interface is 10x faster while using the TiVo Slide remote with bluetooth, any of you boys tried it?


crxssi said:


> MUCH faster network, faster SDUI, more than double the recording time, new equipment, less power, smaller box. There are reasons. Not as many as there SHOULD be, though.


and 


RichB said:


> There is an old Italian saying (translated): Everybody does their own thing in their own house.
> 
> But to answer your question:
> 
> ...


Extremely good points, I was being rhetorical  Coming from using a cable company DVR with their slow and outdated UI, I can live with the HDUI how it is.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

How about Tivo hires a contracter for a day to turn the sd menu verbatim into a hd menu?

I'm just talking the resolution of the fonts since the SD menu is all text.

That would be 

a) an alternative to the current slow hd menu until it gets fast enough if ever

b) less jarring when using the current hd menu and entering the legacy sd menu options.


----------



## TivoRocks193 (Aug 10, 2005)

Sure perhaps you find one that can finish it in one day for them. Let them know when you've found one!


----------



## Mike Wolf (Sep 19, 2010)

trip1eX said:


> How about Tivo hires a contracter for a day to turn the sd menu verbatim into a hd menu?
> 
> I'm just talking the resolution of the fonts since the SD menu is all text.
> 
> ...


:up: I'd be interested to see the HD to SD transition to be less jarring. 
I'd also love to see what the full HD menus would be like when the SD menus are replaced though I found some features I can't seem to find in the HD menus.


----------



## rhapsody (Sep 18, 2010)

I am about to buy a tivo, but can't decide on getting a series3 (OLED) or a new premier. As far as speed on the interfaces is concerned, I'm thinking the older model is better given how many bugs are still in the new HD interface??

What are your thoughts. Thanks.


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

rhapsody said:


> I am about to buy a tivo, but can't decide on getting a series3 (OLED) or a new premier. As far as speed on the interfaces is concerned, I'm thinking the older model is better given how many bugs are still in the new HD interface??
> 
> What are your thoughts. Thanks.


I would not agree with that. With the current level of software, I believe the series 4 running in SDUI mode is just as stable as a series 3.

It is also a faster CPU, a much faster network, and will be upgraded more since it is not a [now] dead product.

I am not saying you wouldn't be happy with a series 3. I am just saying it is not "better" (overall) than a series 4.


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

rhapsody said:


> I am about to buy a tivo, but can't decide on getting a series3 (OLED) or a new premier. As far as speed on the interfaces is concerned, I'm thinking the older model is better given how many bugs are still in the new HD interface??
> 
> What are your thoughts. Thanks.


I have both. I like each about the same: the Series 3 because of the OLED, the Premiere because of MUCH better playback of high-bitrate HD content. Some/most 720p/1080i HD stuff I download and push to the S3 stutters and produces audio dropouts (I think the processor is taxed). Forget about 1080p on an S3. Stuff I record OTA gets run though kmttg to commercial cut, then pushed to the S3. Stuff I download from the internet gets "converted" from mkv to mp4 and pushed to the Premiere. I have the best of both worlds! :up:


----------



## gespears (Aug 10, 2007)

CRXSSI is right. The S4 is newer technology and they will get the bugs worked out eventually. The S3/HD had a TON of bugs before they worked them out. I'm trying to think of a good analogy, maybe like picking up a 86 Chevy Caprice because you're worried the 2010 Toyota might not have all the bugs worked out. 

Alright, bad analogy but you get the point. Go with the latest and greatest because it has so much room to grow whereas the S3 is not going anywhere.


----------



## rhapsody (Sep 18, 2010)

Thank you for the great replies. I'm still concerned about the Premier being fixed. Do you really think they will update all the menus to HD and get the bugs worked out?

I just really enjoyed the OLED on the Series3. I've read on here where everyone is using Premiers but switching to the SD format. So my concern is doesn't that defeat the purpose of getting a Premier?


Is the hardware really that superior to a S3 with OLED?


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

rhapsody said:


> Is the hardware really that superior to a S3 with OLED?


 Compared to THD units the Premiere hardware is superior in all aspects, but compared to S3 OLED units the only really superior aspect is faster TTG & MRV. SDUI may be a tiny bit faster but for me sometimes freezes for a couple of minutes at a time with no remote control response, a condition I rarely have with my S3. Had I not bought my Premiere very cheaply I probably would have sent it back though as that alone did not make it worth while compared to stability of the S3 along with the OLED panel.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

rhapsody said:


> Thank you for the great replies. I'm still concerned about the Premier being fixed. Do you really think they will update all the menus to HD and get the bugs worked out?
> 
> I just really enjoyed the OLED on the Series3. I've read on here where everyone is using Premiers but switching to the SD format. So my concern is doesn't that defeat the purpose of getting a Premier?
> 
> Is the hardware really that superior to a S3 with OLED?


I used to feel the same way about the OLED screen. But I really don't miss them. Plus my Premieres have been much better than my S3 or TiVoHD boxes ever were.


----------



## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

rhapsody said:


> Is the hardware really that superior to a S3 with OLED?


If you do MRV or network transfers, YES. The single saving grace for us on Premiere (and the ONLY reason I would recommend upgrading if you have a S3 or THD at this point) is the fact that it is about 5x faster transferring shows. We can do a 1 hour HD show in about 9 minutes on the Premiere vs about 40 minutes on the OLED S3. HUGE difference for us because we have three Premieres and do lots of MRV.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

curiousgeorge said:


> If you do MRV or network transfers, YES. The single saving grace for us on Premiere (and the ONLY reason I would recommend upgrading if you have a S3 or THD at this point) is the fact that it is about 5x faster transferring shows. We can do a 1 hour HD show in about 9 minutes on the Premiere vs about 40 minutes on the OLED S3. HUGE difference for us because we have three Premieres and do lots of MRV.


Plus it looks like they are starting to push people toward the Premiere. The Hulu Plus access announced today will only be available on the Premiere boxes. (At least the press release only mentions the Premiere as getting access to Hulu Plus.)


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

rhapsody said:


> Thank you for the great replies. I'm still concerned about the Premier being fixed. Do you really think they will update all the menus to HD and get the bugs worked out?


Yes I do. But I also expect it might take up to a year.



> I've read on here where everyone is using Premiers but switching to the SD format. So my concern is doesn't that defeat the purpose of getting a Premier?


It defeats some of the purpose, yes. But it will still be faster, smaller, use less power, store more, etc. It is not much of an upgrade from a series 3, so if you already had a 3, it probably isn't worth upgrading, unless the network speed increase is a must.


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

moyekj said:


> SDUI may be a tiny bit faster but for me sometimes freezes for a couple of minutes at a time with no remote control response


I wouldn't call that typical, though.... I have NEVER seen that happen on mine in the SDUI.


----------



## JimboG (May 27, 2007)

If you are an over the air TV viewer, the OTA reception on the Tivo Premiere still isn't as good as the S3 Tivos.

The OLED front panel on the S3 is pretty nice. Because I have a front projector, I like being able to see what's recoding at a glance without turning the projector on and off and shortening the life of the bulb.

All that said, I would like the faster transfer times from the Premiere to the computer, cut commercials and possibly transcode to MP4, then back to the Premiere from the computer. I probably will get Pandora eventually, but Premiere owners have it today. Finally, the Hulu Plus announcement is pretty nice for Premiere owners.

Because my primary use for the Tivo is reliable, rock solid over the air HD recording, I may keep my S3 and use my Xbox 360 for Netflix and Hulu or else buy a Roku for under $100. The Premiere doesn't seem like a compelling upgrade compared to the other options that are out there today.


----------



## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

rhapsody said:


> I am about to buy a tivo, but can't decide on getting a series3 (OLED) or a new premier. As far as speed on the interfaces is concerned, I'm thinking the older model is better given how many bugs are still in the new HD interface??
> 
> What are your thoughts. Thanks.


If you are not a Tivo owner or upgrading from a s1 or s2 I believe the Premiere is ok. With some owners they are having problems with HDUI interface. On mine it is still slow and it froze once in the last 11/2 months while in the HD mode but no problems in the SD mode. 
In the SDUI interface it seems like that not much trouble has been reported. They are some problems being reported.


----------



## Baracuda2 (Apr 18, 2009)

Hmm. Just ordered 1 Premiere via TiVo upgrade to replace one of my TiVo HD units. Planned to follow with the second if I like it. The new interface is a large part of why I am doing it. 
Now I am concerned I could be taking advantage of the 30 day return period, after reading this forum thread :-( I am not buying this thing to be stuck in the decade+ old 4ss interface.


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Baracuda2 said:


> Hmm. Just ordered 1 Premiere via TiVo upgrade to replace one of my TiVo HD units. Planned to follow with the second if I like it. The new interface is a large part of why I am doing it.
> Now I am concerned I could be taking advantage of the 30 day return period, after reading this forum thread :-( I am not buying this thing to be stuck in the decade+ old interface.


This thread is nothing new. You should have read the HUNDREDS of posts over the last several months about the problems with the Premiere and specifically with the HDUI...

That aside, I *knew exactly* what I was getting into, but replaced my HD (series 3) with a Premiere (series 4), anyway. Why? Because I really wanted the double recording time and faster network. And although I gave up on the HDUI after about a week of trying (it was just too slow/quirky for me) I am otherwise happy.


----------



## Baracuda2 (Apr 18, 2009)

crxssi said:


> This thread is nothing new. You should have read the HUNDREDS of posts over the last several months about the problems with the Premiere and specifically with the HDUI...
> 
> Well, to be honest I had read about it when the thing first came out. I guess I just assumed it was addressed by now. Not going to worry about it. If I dislike it, it goes back and I will consider it again down the line after reading that it has been improved. But who knows, we all use these things in slightly different manners. Perhaps I will find the trade-off worthwhile.


----------



## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

crxssi said:


> Yes I do. But I also expect it might take up to a year.


I still have my money on Dec 2011 at the *earliest*. I believe some features TiVo has now that aren't present in the HD UI already may just be abandoned (parental controls, for example).

It's a sad, sad time for the TiVo hardcore, and all the announcements of NEW things like Pandora (4-5 months late), and Hulu-plus won't fix the REAL problem - the unfinished, buggy, messy HD UI.

FIX the HD UI, then we'll talk, TiVo. Until then, expect the bad word of mouth and tepid sales to hang around.


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

crxssi said:


> I wouldn't call that typical, though.... I have NEVER seen that happen on mine in the SDUI.


 Happens quite frequently for me, perhaps because of Tuning Adapter in the mix that you may not have.


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

curiousgeorge said:


> If you do MRV or network transfers, YES. The single saving grace for us on Premiere (and the ONLY reason I would recommend upgrading if you have a S3 or THD at this point) is the fact that it is about 5x faster transferring shows. We can do a 1 hour HD show in about 9 minutes on the Premiere vs about 40 minutes on the OLED S3. HUGE difference for us because we have three Premieres and do lots of MRV.


 Your comparisons are more vs THD, not S3 OLED. Speedup is more like 2-3x compared to S3 OLED units. THD units were dog slow at TTG/MRV which is why I never bothered with them.


----------



## Baracuda2 (Apr 18, 2009)

"my Tivo " 

being my TiVo HD, to clarify


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

moyekj said:


> Happens quite frequently for me, perhaps because of Tuning Adapter in the mix that you may not have.


I don't have a tuning adapter yet. I have been able to avoid it because no channels that matter were SDV. But Cox is marching in that (unfortunate) direction, so I will be "forced" to deal with one in the next few months. I pray it will not cause new problems.


----------



## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

moyekj said:


> Your comparisons are more vs THD, not S3 OLED. Speedup is more like 2-3x compared to S3 OLED units. THD units were dog slow at TTG/MRV which is why I never bothered with them.


Nope. I'm comparing S3, which is what we had the most of. We only had one crappy THD. It's WAY more than 2x faster than S3 OLED. It's in the 4x range S3-> S3 vs Premiere-> Premiere.


----------



## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

For me, I was willing to switch back to HD when 14.5 finally showed up, but it is still slower. The single most annoying slowness is deleting a show. The little x appears right away, but it will sit there for minutes sometimes without updating the list of shows to remove the one I just deleted. I can imagine reasons (involving fetching new content from network) for almost every other action that is slow, but deleting a show involves nothing more than moving the directory entry for the file to the recently deleted folder. Even on floppy disks, that can be done faster than tivo does it .


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

tomhorsley said:


> For me, I was willing to switch back to HD when 14.5 finally showed up, but it is still slower. The single most annoying slowness is deleting a show. The little x appears right away, but it will sit there for minutes sometimes without updating the list of shows to remove the one I just deleted. I can imagine reasons (involving fetching new content from network) for almost every other action that is slow, but deleting a show involves nothing more than moving the directory entry for the file to the recently deleted folder. Even on floppy disks, that can be done faster than tivo does it .


When I delete a show it's basically instant, just like my TiVo HD and S3 boxes were. I just hit the clear button and it's gone. Or I can delete a bunch very quickly by hitting the clear button several times. So in just two seconds i will have deleted around half a dozen shows.


----------



## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> When I delete a show it's basically instant, just like my TiVo HD and S3 boxes were. I just hit the clear button and it's gone. Or I can delete a bunch very quickly by hitting the clear button several times. So in just two seconds i will have deleted around half a dozen shows.


The Now Playing list updating routine is even WORSE than the S3, though. You can X five shows in a row, then where the cursor SHOULD be (next show after the last one deleted) is not where it IS when it redraws the screen often times. On the S3/THD it would be off by 1-2 sometimes. On the Premiere it can be off by as much as 4-5. I went to the trouble of debugging what the conditions were for the S3/THD doing it and outlined it to TiVo, but they never fixed it. It's super sloppy code on a LIST. My teen son could fix it in an afternoon and have it debugged in a day or so. They obviously just don't care anymore.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

There are probably more important things for them to worry about fixing. I know I've never had any difficulty deleting 10 or 20 shows very quickly.

Just like the bug that shows the resolution of the previous channel you were on. Whether it's fixed or not will not make any difference in the big picture. It doesn't affect usability.


----------



## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> There are probably more important things for them to worry about fixing. I know I've never had any difficulty deleting 10 or 20 shows very quickly.
> 
> Just like the bug that shows the resolution of the previous channel you were on. Whether it's fixed or not will not make any difference in the big picture. It doesn't affect usability.


I beg to differ. Showing the wrong resolution is different than actually DELETING the wrong thing. When it updates the cursor wrong, you can accidentally delete the wrong show when it lands on a different show than you expect (the next in the list). Happened to me a number of times. No big deal now that you can undelete, but still a hassle. Also, it's a dead simple bug to fix that's very annoying.

Also, I could buy the "they have more important things to fix" if they were ACTUALLY FIXING the incredibly broken HD UI in a regular schedule. We're 5 months in and it's almost exactly as unfinished and buggy as it was in April. But we have Pandora. And Hulu. If they were serious about actually fixing the turd they laid, they would ONLY FIX the HD UI until it's actually complete and hopefully sorta stable, then add the candy like Pandora and Hulu later. Those additions are not going to stop the negative word of mouth on the system.


----------



## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

aaronwt said:


> When I delete a show it's basically instant, just like my TiVo HD and S3 boxes were. I just hit the clear button and it's gone. Or I can delete a bunch very quickly by hitting the clear button several times. So in just two seconds i will have deleted around half a dozen shows.


Maybe that's my problem, I'm usually only deleting one show .


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

curiousgeorge said:


> I beg to differ. Showing the wrong resolution is different than actually DELETING the wrong thing. When it updates the cursor wrong, you can accidentally delete the wrong show when it lands on a different show than you expect (the next in the list). Happened to me a number of times. No big deal now that you can undelete, but still a hassle. Also, it's a dead simple bug to fix that's very annoying.


I can't say that I've ever deleted the wrong item before with the Premiere. For instance, I see eight shows I want to delete that are all together. I quickly hit the clear button eight times and all the shows are gone.
I would never use the same process to try and quickly jump around the My shows list to delete.


----------



## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> I can't say that I've ever deleted the wrong item before with the Premiere. For instance, I see eight shows I want to delete that are all together. I quickly hit the clear button eight times and all the shows are gone.
> I would never use the same process to try and quickly jump around the My shows list to delete.


You don't have to move the cursor (and I don't). XXXdelayXX can cause it to delete the wrong show if the timing is right. You can see the wrong cursor updating all the time by deleting 3-6 things. The next thing after the deleted block is not where the cursor will land oftentimes. Doesn't happen every time, but frequently.


----------



## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

tomhorsley said:


> Maybe that's my problem, I'm usually only deleting one show .


You're not crazy. In HD UI it's laggy as hell for me, too when deleting a single show. Not all the time, but more than it should be.


----------



## Jets (Sep 28, 2010)

The Premiere HD menus work GREAT for me.. Then again, I am comparing to a SA8300HD DVR. Coming from that slow pos, the HD menu rocks.


----------

