# Several Questions about UI



## spike6479 (Dec 9, 2006)

I just upgraded my romeo to an edge. I have been a tivo user since the beginning, I had a Series 1. I like the quality of the video and the speed of the box. But I have several issues with the UI:

1. The display of the shows is hard to read. The font is too small (I have a 55 inch TV), and there is not enough contrast between the background and the text.

2. While in a settings screen, I could find no way to exit the screen back to settings. I had to press the tivo button and go all the way back to the main screen.

3. I could find no way to stop watching a show and delete it. With romeo all I had to do was hir left next to select and a menu came up to delete or keep.

4. I could find no comprehensive manual that explains the UI. I would think that a $700 device would have some documentation!

If there are answers to these complaints, please do inform me.


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## jasel (Dec 3, 2006)

I am in a similar situation, but I purchased an Edge for the reduced lifetime service rather than risk the problem with my Romio Pro being something other than a simple hard drive replacement. I also have a Bolt (4 tuner and small HD, but otherwise OK, except for its oddball shape).

But having spent a evening with the Edge, I am at Xanax level frustration with the UI, and wondering if I can ever get used to it. All my other TiVos use the old interface. I’m still finding things I hate but here are a few:

I’m used to using arrow keys to go forward and back. Not searching for the ‘Back’ button, especially in the dark.

The ‘Info’ button is used for too many functions, not to bring up a screen with INFORMATION (like original recording date, see what’s on other tuners and switch, cast, etc.). Not to mention pressing the right arrow brought up the same info, not just pictures of shows on other tuners.

I can transfer recordings from the Edge to the Bolt, but not the other way.

Channel Up was fine to skip ads. I don’t need a big green button. Or any of the new buttons TiVo chose to cram on the remote. I get Netflix elsewhere (even if it loads faster than it used to on the Edge).

I like to guide to be lists. Channels on the left, programs of a channel on the right, that I can scroll through with channel up/down.

ABCD buttons were colored, not black buttons with almost invisible labels (not a big deal. But why change them?)

I don’t need pictures of what’s on the other tuners, especially when I can’t see them on one screen, but am limited to two on a screen and having to scroll through them.

But the worst is lack of information and the hoop to jump through to find it if it exists. Primarily original recording dates or ‘NEW’ designations, and cast members on the initial description.

That and the left arrow not going back, but bringing up another screen I have no desire to see at the time.

So my questions:

I’ve learned there is no way to downgrade the UI on the Edge. Am I stuck with this POS interface?

My Romio indicates, in startup, that the issue is likely a failed hard disk. I have an Extender (which can’t be used on the Edge), which if it was the failure cause has always indicated that was the problem if it was. Should I buy a new larger disk and retire the extender? What are the chances it will solve the problem, and not be a circuitry issue? Once installed, will I have the old UI, or a path to downgrade easily?

I also have older TiVo Minis I haven’t tried yet. Will they cause problems with reaching the Edge?

But the big issue, can I ever get used to the new UI, or does it lack the logic and information that makes it acceptable?

I’m told I have 30 days to return it for a FULL refund. True? Should I? If so, where should I get a new HD? Weaknees? Reliability of replacement drives? Are bigger drives as reliable as smaller ones, or the same? I also assume, that unlike prior models, I can’t take a bare HD and easily format it for use on TiVo?

Any advice sincerely appreciated.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

You're stuck with the POS UI on Edge, so return it. Put a new, larger drive in the Roamio (very easy to do) and move on with TE3. And yeah, ditch the extender because it's just another point of failure that takes the whole system down.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

OP,
You've experienced what many of us long time users have with TE4, it's just missing too many features that made TE3 stand out from the CableCo generic DVR.
Honest, in my mind it never gets better, I'd recommend a used Roamio Pro that you can put a big 3.5" drive in and stay with TE3.
Agreed with the others, dump the extender, they're so old now they're a ticking time bomb especially when it's so easy to replace the internal drive in a Roamio.

That being said, I keep a TE4 Roamio in my fleet just so I have a comparison machine with the latest TE4 revision on it.


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## jasel (Dec 3, 2006)

Thanks. That confirms my suspicions. Wish I had checked before I bought this thing. I plan to ditch the Extender. 

Back to my next questions. Is there a way to determine that it’s definitely a disk failure? What’s the best source for a replacement? Does size matter? I figure 6tb will be a happy medium for a Romio Pro leaving the Extender off.

why did TiVo do this? Is TE3 too difficult to leave as an option? Will some future update put TE4 on my Romio without my approval? Or is that why they put lifetime service on sale only for the Edge?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

You people have got to be kidding. None of those basic features is missing. Nobody spends the time to learn how to use it before trashing it. How do you survive in the modern world where software gets updated and changes all the time?

1. The font is white on black, higher contrast than the old white on blue.

2. "Back" backs out of menus like Left used to. "Left" actually moves left, imagine that.

3. Again, "Back". "Zoom" also goes immediately to a screen to delete or start over. (OK I admit, that makes no sense)

4. Here's the manual (2 clicks to get to it from the Tivo Support page):
How To
(I've never looked at the manual. I just spent 5 minutes of trial and error to figure it out.)


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## jasel (Dec 3, 2006)

mdavej said:


> You people have got to be kidding. None of those basic features is missing. Nobody spends the time to learn how to use it before trashing it. How do you survive in the modern world where software gets updated and changes all the time?
> 
> 1. The font is white on black, higher contrast than the old white on blue.
> 
> ...


1. May be higher contrast but wastes space and has less information. e.g. I can see the next 8 shows on any channel, or scroll to see the next 8 in the Guide.

2. Yeah. But "Left" does both. "Right" moves forward but "Left" doesn't move back.

3. No Zoom button on the Edge remote. So changing screen aspect requires jumping through hoops. As do several functions.

4. Where in the manual does it explain how to transfer TO Edge from other device? I can transfer recordings from the Edge, but not the other way.

I don't need screens of large graphics. I want usable text. Cast, first aired date, 'Explore this show'. Screens that are mostly empty space that are confusing to navigate.

TE4 is crap. And Edge is the piece of crap they force you to leave it on. I've had TiVo for 20 years. From Sony to Series 3 (2 of them), Romio Pro, Bolt, and now an Edge that's going back. I know whereof I speak. As do all the people who think TE4 is garbage.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

1. Up arrow for the new "live guide". Number of listed shows varies, but I have seen up to 8.

2. Because Left isn't Back. Left is Left, Back is Back, which is MORE logical than the old way but DIFFERENT than you're used to. A new user wouldn't find LEFT/BACK functionality confusing at all.

3. I've never seen an Edge remote. I'm sure there's a button that does what Zoom does on an old remote.

4. True. This is one feature you lose.

If it's crap, why did you buy it in the first place? We have thousands of posts about every little detail about TE4. You could have also watched many Youtube videos about it.

I have no horse in this race. I left Tivo a long time ago. But I get tired of reading TE4 doesn't do this or doesn't do that when it actually does. It's lipstick on the TE3 pig. Same features except for transfers and the thumbnail based live guide.

EDIT: Zoom is Exit on the Edge remote, assuming it's the same as the Lux remote.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

mdavej said:


> You people have got to be kidding. None of those basic features is missing. Nobody spends the time to learn how to use it before trashing it. How do you survive in the modern world where software gets updated and changes all the time?


I'm very open to UI changes when they improve an operation and make devices easier, however IMNSHO TE4 is a hail mary to try and get more business by following existing DVR trends from companies that have always made a crappier DVR than Tivo did for many years, they wanted more acceptance and sold their soul to the devil for it.

As many in tech have known for a long time, the "most popular" interface is rarely the best for everyone, it's common denominator.
If Tivo really wanted to put their money where they mouth was when developing TE4 then make it so ANY Tivo DVR can flip back and forth between TE3 and TE4.
So far there has been no "killer app" in TE4 that has me willing to give up being able to upload video to my Tivo and the sheer pleasure in using the Live Guide, clearly YMMV because that's the way the world works.


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## jasel (Dec 3, 2006)

mdavej said:


> 1. Up arrow for the new "live guide". Number of listed shows varies, but I have seen up to 8.
> 
> 2. Because Left isn't Back. Left is Left, Back is Back, which is MORE logical than the old way but DIFFERENT than you're used to. A new user wouldn't find LEFT/BACK functionality confusing at all.
> 
> ...


1. WRONG. Scrolls up one row (channel). Shows 7 rows and an ad in the 8th.
2. WRONG. When Right is right OR Forward, Left should be left OR Back
3. WRONG. Exit is where the Zoom button was. It doesn't do anything like the Zoom button did. It Exits, which seems to do the same as Back does.
4. CORRECT. But it's one of several features you lose. All replaced by frustration.

Because, like in the past TiVo knows little about what they sell. I hesitate to call them morons. I knew about TE4, so asked if I could still switch to TE3, like every other TiVo box I own, and they said I could. So what earthly reason could they have for prohibiting its use?

I do have a horse in this race. After they added logo graphics to channels they should have stopped. My only concern is TiVo going out of business making my lifetime service worthless. Or not listening to what their customers want. And putting devices in bent cases, or replacing colored buttons with illegible text and cramming unwanted buttons on the remote.

IF IT AIN'T BROKEN, DON'T FIX IT!


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

jasel said:


> 1. WRONG. Scrolls up one row (channel). Shows 7 rows and an ad in the 8th.
> 2. WRONG. When Right is right OR Forward, Left should be left OR Back
> 3. WRONG. Exit is where the Zoom button was. It doesn't do anything like the Zoom button did. It Exits, which seems to do the same as Back does.
> 4. CORRECT. But it's one of several features you lose. All replaced by frustration.
> ...


1. Sounds like you're in the grid guide. Access "live guide" during playback, not while in the grid guide.
2. I agree it would have been better to keep Left functionality as-is to avoid confusing existing user base.
3. Exit has exactly the same functionality as Zoom in TE4. The old TE3 Zoom functionality is elsewhere (Info possibly?).

Like you, I was extremely disappointed in TE4. It could have been a lot different and a lot better. I agree it's more confusing in many ways. My point is, most of the old TE3 functionality is still there somewhere, not completely missing as the OP's post said.

Yes, Tivo doesn't care what customers want. The Roamio was the last good DVR they made. The bent case is ridiculous. I was in the beta for TE4 a couple of years ago and gave them an earful every round of testing, but they did not listen. All they care about it being patent trolls and making a quick buck on a crappy streaming stick that doesn't interface with any other Tivo products at all. I knew the clock was ticking on my Tivo lifetime hardware, so I got out while I could still get some of my money back. I love not being tied to specific hardware now and being able to switch services without penalty whenever I want. If I were in your shoes, I would stock up on lifetime Roamio's and ride it out OR replace them all now with something like Channels DVR.


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## spike6479 (Dec 9, 2006)

I found the back button and it dos what used to be done by the left arrow button. The back button is harder to find. A user manual might have sped up my finding this button; or at least a short document for existing tivo users on how to use/setup the new UI.

Just an example of the poor UI design: it takes 7 presses of 4 different buttons to delete a show from My Shows.
The light gray small font on a slightly darker gray background is very difficult to read.
I do like the 1080P video and the auto skip (when there is actually a skip, which is as rare as hen's teeth).

It feels like the UI was designed by a number of people who never spoke with each other and there was no usability testing. Deleting a show is completely different depending upon where you start.

I also miss the fact that I can't see a description of the show in the My SHows display, even though there is a large area of blank screen.

This is likely the last DVR I buy from tivo; and I started with a series 1. A huge step backwards in my opionion.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

spike6479 said:


> Just an example of the poor UI design: it takes 7 presses of 4 different buttons to delete a show from My Shows.


I swear on my TE4 Roamio you can highlight the show in My Shows and press clear to delete it just like TE3, someone please correct me if that's changed.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

spike6479 said:


> I found the back button and it dos what used to be done by the left arrow button. The back button is harder to find. A user manual might have sped up my finding this button; or at least a short document for existing tivo users on how to use/setup the new UI.
> 
> Just an example of the poor UI design: it takes 7 presses of 4 different buttons to delete a show from My Shows.
> The light gray small font on a slightly darker gray background is very difficult to read.
> ...


You are preaching to the choir for a lot of us on this forum, which is why many recommend a used Roamio or Bolt with the ability to run on TiVo Experience 3 (Vs. TE4 on the Edge). Anyway, here is the link you requested. How To


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

spike6479 said:


> The back button is harder to find.


Yea, those TE4 bastards really hid it well.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

dianebrat said:


> I swear on my TE4 Roamio you can highlight the show in My Shows and press clear to delete it just like TE3, someone please correct me if that's changed.


You're correct.

1) press clear
2) press Select (OK)

Oh, the horror that is TE4. Things are so hard!


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

cwoody222 said:


> Yea, those TE4 bastards really hid it well.
> 
> View attachment 62638


There's no way I can find that in the dark when I'm used to using the Left button. It's nearly 1mm away!


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## telero (Oct 2, 2006)

mdavej said:


> There's no way I can find that in the dark when I'm used to using the Left button. It's nearly 1mm away!


The Lux remote is a game changer!


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## Hickoryw (Dec 6, 2008)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you transfer shows from a te3 box to a te4 box using tivo online? Admittedly this is much less convenient.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Hickoryw said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you transfer shows from a te3 box to a te4 box using tivo online? Admittedly this is much less convenient.


I do it all the time. Of course, copy protected programs are excluded.

Sometimes it duplicates the transfer also. So you erase one. Not a big deal.


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