# So You Think You Can Dance - Season 10



## voripteth (Apr 9, 2003)

This thread is for episode discussion of Season 10. 

Any bets that Fik-shun is this year's Cyrus? :up:


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## Lee 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

They seem pretty happy with him so far.

I like Cyrus's ex.


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## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

I actually went to half a day's taping of the Detroit auditions earlier this year. (Oddly, when they aired the Detroit auditions, I'm absolutely positive that what they said was day 1 was actually day 2, and what I saw on the real day 1 ended up airing as day 2). Unfortunately, I did the morning session, and wasn't able to make it back for the afternoon session, so most of what I saw wasn't actually on the air (although there was a little, such as the grandmother doing gangnum style (or however that's spelled)). Was pretty neat to see the process behind what was going on. In the morning, they start with all the dancers for the day going up in groups of 10, and one by one doing a little bit of their stuff (to a mind-numbing repeat of that Chris Brown song that's made it's appearance a few times during what's aired). After that, they got no feedback, but just a go/no-go from the judges. I'd say on average about 3 of every 10 people got through to do their solos. (I lost track of how many groups of 10 they did, but I'd guess around 15 or so).

They did a handful of solo's before breaking for lunch, so I did get to see a few. Nobody in that group that I saw immediately went to vegas, but there were a couple to choreography. I'm pretty sure a couple of the people I did see during the large groups did ultimately make it to Vegas, because there's been some faces that I vaguely recognize (I've been pondering whether they guy from Detroit that had to dance twice for his life was one of those). Of course, it's been hard to tell, because it was way back in February that they did the auditions, so my memory is a bit on the vague side. 

One thing I was impressed with was that for those that were doing the solos, they did actually get a fair amount of feedback from the judges, with advice on what they need to do to get better. Not all of that makes the tv show, they seem to talk longer to each person than what you see.

Fik-shun to me actually seems like he can do some of the dances outside of his style. At least, he hasn't stood out as being completely terrible in the other styles. Cyrus was always a little weak, and really got further than he probably should have.


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## Tracy (Mar 12, 2000)

Interesting to hear a bit about how it works. The groups of ten went in front of the actual judges that we see or was it other producer/judges?


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## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

The regular judges. They'd confer for a minute or two after the group had finished, and then Nigel would announce who was to stick around and who was done. It was interesting, because every now and then you'd see them put through someone that was truly pretty bad, just so they'd have some bad solos too. But there were a number of people that I was surprised one way or the other when they made their selections.

Cat was also in and out, either doing interviews with dancers, or just sitting about 15 feet away from me taking notes on people.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

One thing I wondered is how much they really slept in those supposed grueling practice sessions? Are they really up all night or making it look worse than it is.

Frankly I consider it dangerous from the producers point of view to push them to the brink when the dancers have to count on each other.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

zalusky said:


> One thing I wondered is how much they really slept in those supposed grueling practice sessions? Are they really up all night or making it look worse than it is.
> 
> Frankly I consider it dangerous from the producers point of view to push them to the brink when the dancers have to count on each other.


When Sonya Tayeh told the dancers they had to stay up all night and practice, I wanted to reach though the TV and smack her.

I already thought it was problematic to have one sleepless night during Vegas week before the group dance; having two nights is idiotic.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

gschrock said:


> Cat was also in and out, either doing interviews with dancers, or just *sitting about 15 feet away from me* taking notes on people.


Swooon!!! 



murgatroyd said:


> I already thought it was problematic to have one sleepless night during Vegas week before the group dance; having two nights is idiotic.


Irresponsible... purely for manufactured drama.  Just let the dancers dance and PLEASE stop cutting away from the dancers to show judges reactions. 

The animation dance-off... I enjoyed it a lot but it was so obviously a set-up. Why be "tricky" like that? The show doesn't need it.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

jradosh said:


> Swooon!!!
> 
> Irresponsible... purely for manufactured drama.  Just let the dancers dance and PLEASE stop cutting away from the dancers to show judges reactions.
> 
> The animation dance-off... I enjoyed it a lot but it was so obviously a set-up. Why be "tricky" like that? The show doesn't need it.


The cut aways to judges should be done as an insert. I like to see their reactions but nit at the expense of seeing the performances.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> The cut aways to judges should be done as an insert. I like to see their reactions but nit at the expense of seeing the performances.


Such an obvious solution, yet they won't do it.

I also wasn't thrilled about seeing the super-busy sets during Vegas week. Auditions and Vegas Week are the only chance I get to actually see the dancers without over-produced lighting crap. I don't need the giant lit parentheses. Give it a rest, people. Take it back to the early days, when it was more about the dancing.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

murgatroyd said:


> Such an obvious solution, yet they won't do it.
> 
> I also wasn't thrilled about seeing the super-busy sets during Vegas week. Auditions and Vegas Week are the only chance I get to actually see the dancers without over-produced lighting crap. I don't need the giant lit parentheses. Give it a rest, people. Take it back to the early days, when it was more about the dancing.


One reason that would not surprise me at all is that the judges reaction shots are totally unrelated. They could be for a different dancer or for a different part of the dance. They just feel like you have to have a judges smiling/teary face for a certain beat of the music.
Having an insert showing the judges face would totally show they have been gaming it. I know most other reality shows have reaction shots that are totally bogus.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

zalusky said:


> One reason that would not surprise me at all is that the judges reaction shots are totally unrelated. They could be for a different dancer or for a different part of the dance. They just feel like you have to have a judges smiling/teary face for a certain beat of the music.
> Having an insert showing the judges face would totally show they have been gaming it. I know most other reality shows have reaction shots that are totally bogus.


Couldn't bogus reaction shots be edited into a PNP box just as easily as real ones?


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

zalusky said:


> One reason that would not surprise me at all is that the judges reaction shots are totally unrelated.





murgatroyd said:


> Couldn't bogus reaction shots be edited into a PNP box just as easily as real ones?


Individual reactions could be, but an insert that kept popping up and then disappearing would be pretty annoying too. So if (as zalusky supposes) the reactions are unrelated, it would be impossible to have a continuously displayed inset of the judges that related to the dance.

And really... who cares about the reactions anyway? I can wait until the dance is over to get a summary.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

jradosh said:


> Individual reactions could be, but an insert that kept popping up and then disappearing would be pretty annoying too. So if (as zalusky supposes) the reactions are unrelated, it would be impossible to have a continuously displayed inset of the judges that related to the dance.
> 
> And really... who cares about the reactions anyway? I can wait until the dance is over to get a summary.


Took the words out of my mouth. Besides I think we would get tired of seeing them constantly in an inset. I think they do it because they think we want to somehow see others share the joy in pseudo real time.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

jradosh said:


> And really... who cares about the reactions anyway? I can wait until the dance is over to get a summary.


There are a few times -- a FEW -- that seeing the judges' reactions to a dance have made the show a lot more fun.

I've posted before, so apologies in advance for sounding like a broken record, but the reaction shots for the judges' panel, in the Vegas week round during Iveta and Russell's cha-cha, that was priceless.

You had Nigel pointing them out to the other judges. You had Mia Michael's making a "touchdown" gesture. Tyce being absolutely gob-smacked. That was worth seeing. ("Cue music" at 1:30ish).

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xen710_russell-ferguson-iveta-lukosiute-sy_creation#.UbtVVtiP3nk

Even so, how much better would it have been, if we had been able to see the judges' POV and watch the dancing the whole time?

If it isn't a special case like that, then I don't need to see the judges' reactions. I'd rather pass.


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## Lee 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

The camera work on this show makes me want to strangle the producer.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

jradosh said:


> Individual reactions could be, but an insert that kept popping up and then disappearing would be pretty annoying too. So if (as zalusky supposes) the reactions are unrelated, it would be impossible to have a continuously displayed inset of the judges that related to the dance.
> 
> And really... who cares about the reactions anyway? I can wait until the dance is over to get a summary.


As I said, I like the reaction shots. For a few reasons. They help catch what is good and what is bad for the viewer. They connect more. You know what is different about being at a live performance versus watching one on TV? The audience interaction. Take, for example, the funny or over the top reactions when a dancer does something funny or spectacular. The reaction of the judges adds to the feeling of being there. The Boston Marathon dance...the emotion was added to because it was shared with the dancers AND the judges. It is called empathy.

Oh, and they may be able to game the auditions and Vegas, but the audience voting shows are live, no?


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## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

I'm not sure the no-sleep nights are really to manufacture drama, but it's definitely to insert stress into the situation. Let's face it, part of being a dancer is going to be working on tight deadlines, under stressful situations. This gives them a chance to see how they're going to respond under that type of situation.

And the reality is, the dancers have complete control over how long they work. If they decide they've got it, they can quite and go to sleep whenever they want. Of course, they better have their routine down right if they do cut out early, because I'm willing to bet the judges get a report on who was working and for how long.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Lee 2.0 said:


> The camera work on this show makes me want to strangle the producer.


The lighting design on the main show makes me want to strangle people, too.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

murgatroyd said:


> The lighting design on the main show makes me want to strangle people, too.


and the set design...

it's never been the same since they got rid of the original stairway sets but

why put banal blow up photos of dancers BEHIND the actual people dancing?


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

Lee 2.0 said:


> The camera work on this show makes me want to strangle the producer.


:up:



voripteth said:


> This thread is for episode discussion of Season 10.
> 
> Any bets that Fik-shun is this year's Cyrus? :up:


Yep. I was surprised how quickly he picked up all the choreography, though. I wonder if he's had any formal training.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Agreed. In fact, I think he looks BETTER in the other genres than Cyrus did! He's certainly an early favorite in my house!


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Wasn't Hip hop girl on SYTYCD last season? She looks familiar..


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Kamakzie said:


> Wasn't Hip hop girl on SYTYCD last season? She looks familiar..


If I'm not mistaken, she's the girl who made Shanks do a spit-take when Nigel asked her her style, and she replied "Krumping".

Oh, yeah, it's her. Mariah Spears.






Now, seeing Li'l C's face when he saw this solo for the first time? THAT would have been worth watching. 

I love it when Shankman turns to Mary and says "She's <bleep>ing krumping!"

I have no idea why they didn't mention that during the audition / Vegas week shows. (I only peeked at tonight's opening, and haven't seen the whole show yet.)

She may be one of the dancers that they were alluding to at the top of the show, saying that they were taking a risk with some of the dancers. Last year they were ragging on her for not having enough vocabulary, and it was easy to see why they would throw her back into the pool so she could grow up some more.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

murgatroyd said:


> If I'm not mistaken, she's the girl who made Shanks do a spit-take when Nigel asked her her style, and she replied "Krumping".
> 
> Oh, yeah, it's her. Mariah Spears.
> 
> ...


When was she eliminated last season?


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

My daughter was SO thrilled that we're starting with 3 tappers!


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

jehma said:


> My daughter was SO thrilled that we're starting with 3 tappers!


Not me! I find tap fun and interesting for about 15 seconds, then it's just irritating. And in past seasons I don't think the tappers got very far.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> Not me! I find tap fun and interesting for about 15 seconds, then it's just irritating. And in past seasons I don't think the tappers got very far.


She's been tapping for 9 years, so her perspective is a little different.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> Not me! I find tap fun and interesting for about 15 seconds, then it's just irritating.


Kind of the way I feel about the flailing angst ridden contemporary dancers.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

Cearbhaill said:


> Kind of the way I feel about the flailing angst ridden contemporary dancers.


That made me laugh.


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## tlrowley (Jun 10, 2004)

I would be one of the last people to say that I enjoy most animators - but I was totally blown away by the animators this week. That routine was my favorite of the week.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

tlrowley said:


> I would be one of the last people to say that I enjoy most animators - but I was totally blown away by the animators this week. That routine was my favorite of the week.


By Christopher Scott :up:


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Finally got a chance to watch the rest of the show.



Kamakzie said:


> When was she eliminated last season?


I think it was in the middle of Vegas week somewhere. One of those really quick "and so and so didn't make it" mentions in passing that Cat does as a voice-over, so if you aren't paying 100% attention, you have to back up and play it again.



mooseAndSquirrel said:


> Not me! I find tap fun and interesting for about 15 seconds, then it's just irritating. And in past seasons I don't think the tappers got very far.


Not everyone can dance like the Nicholas Brothers. 



Cearbhaill said:


> Kind of the way I feel about the flailing angst ridden contemporary dancers.


Contemporary is one of those things where it all has to come together -- the music, the choreography, the choreographer, the dancers -- or else. It's brilliant, or it falls flat like a bad souffle.



tlrowley said:


> I would be one of the last people to say that I enjoy most animators - but I was totally blown away by the animators this week. That routine was my favorite of the week.





jehma said:


> By Christopher Scott :up:


That routine was SICK.

But OMG, the group number! That was insane.

Sometimes I wish there was a way to turn the tables and vote the choreographers off the show instead of the dancers. Get all the All-Stars together so you'll have dancers experienced enough to handle it, and let the choreographers battle.

For this week, for instance, the top 10 girls number. Ray Leeper, go home. Okay, the girls tried to sell it, and I guess htey danced it well -- but WTF was that?

The "you got screwed by the camerawork, so we couldn't see half your choreography" award this week goes to Louis van Amstel. Okay -- the director waits until one of the hardest highlight moves in the routine -- the samba rolls -- to pull back and show a wide shot of the stage so we can hardly see the dancers?

But of course the special effects crew saved the worst for last. Sure, let's just bombard the stage with smoke and lights and crap during the top 20 group number -- nobody wants to see any details during that, right? Morons.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

My favorite 2 of the night were Mia's trio 
(ya know where they were all angstly flailing about )

and the Top 10 men together 
- THAT was amazing 
the sand was spectacular 
but I just kept thinking they must be getting that in their eyes...


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

Cainebj said:


> My favorite 2 of the night were Mia's trio
> (ya know where they were all angstly flailing about )
> 
> and the Top 10 men together
> ...


Also Christopher Scott. He's my current favorite choreographer. Jason anyone else watched the LXD?


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

jehma said:


> Also Christopher Scott. He's my current favorite choreographer. Jason anyone else watched the LXD?


We watched it and loved every minute!


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

(stupid auto correct the Jason =has) 

We never finished it because I watched it with my busy daughter and I'm not allowed to watch without her.  I loved it and need to get back to it. If we don't finish this summer, I'm watching without her when she goes to college.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> Oh, and they may be able to game the auditions and Vegas, but the audience voting shows are live, no?


One day delay, I think. There's certainly no time to do any creative editing like there is with the auditions (Vegas Week was in mid-April). The problem with a live show at this point is, you run the risk of the shows running longer than two hours, and a number of Fox stations pride themselves on their 10 PM local news shows and don't like it when a "minor" show runs overtime.

Note that Nigel is credited as the director on all of the shows through Vegas Week, but Nikki Parsons does the directing from the Top 20 Announcement show through the finale.

It looks like another of the show's "secrets" got let out when they brought back one of the tappers as the first alternate - now everybody knows the "last two guys" and "last two girls" aren't really competing for the final spot.
Speaking of secrets (and tappers), having three tappers and two animators could cause a problem down the line. One of the remaining secrets is, they take a sixth man and a sixth woman for the tour - they don't do solos, but do a duet (not necessarily with each other) and the group number; they are usually chosen to be a partner for a specialist who made the tour by being in the top 10. If one animator and the female tapper get in, but the other animator and the two male tappers don't, they'll almost certainly have to decide between an animator and a tapper for the sixth male spot.

When they showed Chelsie Hightower teaching choreography during Vegas Week, Cat called her just Chelsie - I was under the impression that one of the conditions Dancing With the Stars had with her appearing on SYTYCD was that they had to call her "Chelsie Hightower" instead of just by her first name. Or is she no longer involved with DWTS?

Something else I noticed: they haven't mentioned "one guy winner and one girl winner" this year, and, in fact, Cat used the term "America's Favorite Dancer" (as opposed to "Dancers"). They may have gone back to the single $250,000 winner this year.
*EDIT:* On the 6/25 episode, Cat did say there will be two winners again this year. However, I don't think they have mentioned exactly what the prize is (presumably, $125,000 each).


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Love the opening number to the 6/25 performance show :up: 

Hate the camera circling the dancers. Please make it stop


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Yeah, that opening number was stunning.

...and Fik-Shun - Wow!!!!


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Ditto the opening- that was the best opening number I can recall, at least post Robson. My memory fades as to what was opening in past seasons and what was not- either way this one was excellent.


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## Lee 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

The tappers pretty much just make me miss Gregory Hines.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

Who choreographed the opener? I haven't had a chance to watch the episode yet.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

jehma said:


> Who choreographed the opener? I haven't had a chance to watch the episode yet.


NapiTabs.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Haven't watched the whole episode yet, but the opening number was a lot of fun.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

ditto ditto ditto on the opening number

i thought the other surprise was BluePrint on his african dance

as for the girls? thank god a couple of them are blonde otherwise i wouldn't be able to tell any of them apart


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

The opening number was fantastic! 

I didn't like the Christopher Scott choreography with the light. I think this is the first time he's disappointed me as a choreographer or performer. 

I did love the Amy & FikShun number.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

How does this work? Is there a results show, or did I miss it?


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## jay_man2 (Sep 15, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> How does this work? Is there a results show, or did I miss it?


The first part of next week's show will be results from this week.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

jay_man2 said:


> The first part of next week's show will be results from this week.


well that can't be 
- the results would have to come at the end of the show wouldn't they 
- how else would they rehearse for the actual show?


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Cainebj said:


> well that can't be
> - the results would have to come at the end of the show wouldn't they
> - how else would they rehearse for the actual show?


They ALL rehearse, and yes, this is how it's done now - no drawn-out hour-long results show. It worked well last year.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

The combined results show is fantastic. One of the things that sets SYTYCD apart IMO.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

madscientist said:


> The combined results show is fantastic. One of the things that sets SYTYCD apart IMO.


Agreed, I'm glad they made the change a couple seasons ago. Saves us from an hour of filler the next night.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

TonyTheTiger said:


> They ALL rehearse, and yes, this is how it's done now - no drawn-out hour-long results show. It worked well last year.


i know there is no results show i just don't remember being told who was in the bottom at the _beginning_ of the next week's show


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Were the blindfolded couple truly sightless? During practice, the blindfolds looked sheer... Seemed like an impossible dance with truly no sight...


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

MikeekiM said:


> Were the blindfolded couple truly sightless? During practice, the blindfolds looked sheer... Seemed like an impossible dance with truly no sight...


It's possible that they were "sightless", but doubtful - among other things, it would be extremely unsafe for people who weren't taught how to dance blind.



Cainebj said:


> well that can't be
> - the results would have to come at the end of the show wouldn't they
> - how else would they rehearse for the actual show?


After all of the couples dance, they announce which three men and which three women were in the bottom of the voting. Nigel can then ask any of them to do a 30-second solo (I doubt there will be any solos in the next episode, as there is barely enough time for the 10 duets); the judges then announce who gets eliminated.

One reason the eliminations are done at the end is, the judges are supposed to take that night's duets (as well as any solo) into account when determining the eliminations.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Yes, the key thing about this part of the competition is that the judges are deciding who goes and who stays, it's not a public vote (yet). This means the decision can be made during the show, essentially live.


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## paracelsus (Jun 23, 2002)

OK, was my TV station the only one to stick a car commercial 20 seconds into Amy and FikShun's dance?


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Okay wouldn't it make sense for all the couples to dance first and then do the results at the end and just omit the eliminated couple from the voting? Can't say I like the elimination first and then have two dancers possibly "mailing it in"..


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Kamakzie said:


> Okay wouldn't it make sense for all the couples to dance first and then do the results at the end and just omit the eliminated couple from the voting? Can't say I like the elimination first and then have two dancers possibly "mailing it in"..


For those of you who missed the episode, the eliminations have changed: they now announce the bottom three men and women at the start of the show, then the judges save one of each (there will be two saves each week, as opposed to Idol's "the save can be used only once in the entire season"), then the remaining four each do a 45-second "dance for your life" solo before one man and one woman are eliminated. However, the eliminated dancers still perform their scheduled duets (presumably even if both eliminated dancers are from the same couple).

If I had to guess, I would say that the reason they do it this way is so they have a better idea of how much time remains in the show for the duets; they're not stuck with making some dancers do solos just to pad the time. It could also be that fans of the show wanted to see all of the dancers "dance for their lives", which is easier to control earlier than later.

However, I don't think the eliminated dancers are "phoning it in" (although I didn't like how Nigel asked them (before the eliminations were announced) if any of them had a problem with dancing after being eliminated). In addition to having another dance to impress any choreographers (for future work) who might be watching, there's also the two "unannounced tour slots", and almost certainly they'll take into account who took being dancing after being eliminated seriously, although it probably won't weigh as heavily as "does this dancer specialize in something where we don't have anybody else of his sex but we do have somebody of the opposite sex who could be paired up in a duet?".


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## Zephyr (Sep 16, 2005)

Kamakzie said:


> Okay wouldn't it make sense for all the couples to dance first and then do the results at the end and just omit the eliminated couple from the voting? Can't say I like the elimination first and then have two dancers possibly "mailing it in"..


Agreed, don't like it. This places undue burden on the surviving partner. How can anyone just being kicked off give it their best mind and body. Once again, good people will be hurt. Nigel was not happy with the audience vote plus one of the choreographers toward the end. I wonder if this is another turning point?


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Something else I noticed about this season: in the past, when they had two finalists with the same first name, Cat always called them by their first name and last initial, but this year, instead of "Jasmine H" and "Jasmine M", it's "Jasmine Harper" and "Jasmine Mason"...and I think I know why: Cat has a habit of pronouncing the letter H as "Haitch" (she did it quite a bit when she hosted _20Q_ on GSN), and somebody might think that calling her "Jasmine Haitch" might affect her performance and/or the voting somehow.


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## MauriAnne (Sep 21, 2002)

I'm watching this season, but I'm not as interested in it as previous seasons. Maybe it's just early in the season and I can't keep them all straight and I'll like it more when it's down to a more reasonable number. Or maybe I'm just over it. 

Time will tell.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I don't really care for eliminated dancers having to dance so I think that weird and I always thought seeing the routines of the night had some weight to the outcome - 
It was interesting to hear them talk about the dress rehearsals so I am guessing that is what they are using.

First time I recall Nigel trashing a choreographer.
I wish that would happen more often.

and ya know what I hate? I hate when a choreographer choreographs something I like and then I have to admit it. I cannot STAND Tyce Diorio but I liked the opening number only have to eat crow when I found out he did it!


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

I can't believe they didn't jettison the krumper girl after she stopped "dancing for her life" before the countdown was over. 

And I agree it would make more sense to eliminate the dancers at the end of the performance show, not at the beginning.

And for the love of all that's holy, stop the frickin' circular camera shots!!!


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Cainebj said:


> I don't really care for eliminated dancers having to dance so I think that weird and I always thought seeing the routines of the night had some weight to the outcome -
> It was interesting to hear them talk about the dress rehearsals so I am guessing that is what they are using.
> 
> First time I recall Nigel trashing a choreographer.
> ...


Your comment about Tyce made me laugh out loud.

I've discovered over the seasons that I don't like Tyce's work in a big way. Except that every now and again, he turns out something that I really, really like. Go figure.

And I'll play devil's advocate about the new system of announcing the eliminations and then asking people to dance. One thing that bugs me about Dancing With the Stars is that they announce at the end of the show that the eliminated amateur and have 'a final dance', which is really just a little bit of social noodling on the floor before all the others come out to give them farewell hugs.

With this new system, the audience gets a real 'farewell dance'.

Other than that, though, I think it's stupid and wrong. Why put partners in the headspace where they are prone to lose focus and make mistakes? It's a recipe for disaster. Yes, if they're pros, the show must go on yada yada yada, they have to learn to compartmentalize, but it's stupid and inhumane.

I'd much rather have the bottom threes announced at the top of the show and then have the duets be part of the 'dance for your life' data.

And I've said it before -- I hate the 30-second solos. Yes, if the dancing is not up to snuff, making it 60 seconds instead of 30 seconds is not going to make it any better. But giving people only 30 seconds encourages them to cram all their tricks into a very small bag, instead of taking the time to fill out the music properly. So I say give them the 60 seconds, and let the weaker dancers expose themselves by not being able to fill it out.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

murgatroyd said:


> And I've said it before -- I hate the 30-second solos. Yes, if the dancing is not up to snuff, making it 60 seconds instead of 30 seconds is not going to make it any better. But giving people only 30 seconds encourages them to cram all their tricks into a very small bag, instead of taking the time to fill out the music properly. So I say give them the 60 seconds, and let the weaker dancers expose themselves by not being able to fill it out.


I've always disliked the countdown the audience does at the very end of the 30 second solos. It really encourages the dancers to start ramping up the tricks or cramming in a "wrap up" move.

If they would give the "dance for your life" dancers _between 30 and 60 seconds_ for their routines, it would satisfy both of us.  And we wouldn't have weak endings like last week's krumper (whatshername) lamely standing at the end looking tired and lost. (well, maybe we would because she couldn't even fill out 30 seconds!)


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

jradosh said:


> I've always disliked the countdown the audience does at the very end of the 30 second solos. It really encourages the dancers to start ramping up the tricks or cramming in a "wrap up" move.
> 
> If they would give the "dance for your life" dancers _between 30 and 60 seconds_ for their routines, it would satisfy both of us.  And we wouldn't have weak endings like last week's krumper (whatshername) lamely standing at the end looking tired and lost. (well, maybe we would because she couldn't even fill out 30 seconds!)


I doubt that any dancer doesn't know exactly at what point in the music the time expires (and, BTW, it's more like 45 seconds this year instead of 30, possibly because there are only four solos instead of six) and plans their solo around it. I expect that Nigel, Mary, and the choreographers would be able to tell if somebody was "ramping it up" once the countdown started. (Then again, I doubt that the solos have much, if any, impact on who is going to get eliminated - "Well, this is the sixth week in a row you have been in the bottom six, and you clearly can't handle any of the styles assigned to you, but your solos are so incredible that you need to remain in the competition.")

Also, in my opinion, the show is no longer just about the dancers, but has become _So You Think You Can Choreograph?_; the only difference is, the prize is an Emmy, and the voters are the choreographers on the Emmy panels that choose the nominees and then the winners. This season has the added advantage that it will not have to compete against _Smash_, which won't have any episodes in the 2013-14 eligibility period.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Nice, they took viewer feedback and criticism and now eliminations happen at the end of the show now.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Kamakzie said:


> Nice, they took viewer feedback and criticism and now eliminations happen at the end of the show now.


I doubt that "viewer feedback and criticism" had much to do with the decision - otherwise, the announcement of the bottom six and the solos probably would have been at the end as well.

I also noticed that they not only got rid of the audience counting down at the end of each solo, but they didn't turn the set red for the final five seconds like they have in the past; however, it was obvious that Jenna knew in advance exactly when her solo would end, which is a little surprising as the solos all ran 38 seconds from when the music started.

*ADD:* A couple of other things I noticed:

They didn't save one of the three women (what is it with this show and "girls", anyway - is it a dance thing?) before the solos, like they did last week.

Also, they weren't kidding when the credits say that, "Due to the nature of the dance profession, contestants and judges may have had interaction prior to the show" - Fik-Shun was in the final 18 of Paula Abdul's CBS show (from early 2011) _Live to Dance_.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

That Don Guy said:


> Fik-Shun was in the final 18 of Paula Abdul's CBS show (from early 2011) _Live to Dance_.


wow they have really presented him as a wunderkind with no training.
so basically he's a dance reality show ho 
whose actually probably got more experience than most of the other contestants.
his stock just went down.


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## stargazer21 (May 22, 2002)

Kamakzie said:


> Nice, they took viewer feedback and criticism and now eliminations happen at the end of the show now.


Btw, I just wanted you to know that I miss your breakdowns of the show every week.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

Cainebj said:


> wow they have really presented him as a wunderkind with no training.
> so basically he's a dance reality show ho
> whose actually probably got more experience than most of the other contestants.
> his stock just went down.


He went to a performing arts school for 2 years too. They love to portray them as completely untrained.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

jehma said:


> He went to a performing arts school for 2 years too. They love to portray them as completely untrained.


I heard someone make a comment in an off-stage segment make a comment where they made a distinction between the trained dancers who have come up in the more mainstream genres and "trained street dancers".

I can't remember who it was; I'll have to go back and look for it. Could have been Fik-shun, but it might have been one of the choreographers, talking about melding two different styles.

At any rate, the phrase "trained street dancers" caught my attention, precisely because it was in contrast to the kind of thing you pointed out, where the show likes to talk about "trained" and "untrained" dancers.

"Untrained" may be dance-world code for "dancers who can't pick up someone else's choreography" but that's not the impression it gives to the non-dance-trained audience.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

stargazer21 said:


> Btw, I just wanted you to know that I miss your breakdowns of the show every week.


Thanks, I appreciate it. I've gotten lazy the last year or so.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Was there no show last night or did my TiVo miss it?


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

No new show because of the All-Star Game.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Seven Emmy nominations:
Reality-Competition Program
Cat, for hosting
Lighting design/direction for a variety series
plus four for choreography:
(remember, these are all from Season 9; also, "Top 20 #2" is the week where all 20 danced but then two were eliminated)

Sonya Tayeh:
Possibly Maybe (Allison Holker & Cole Horibe - Top 8)
Turning Page (Tiffany Maher & George Lawrence Jr.- Top 20 #1, repeated in the finale)
Sail (Audrey Case & Tiffany Maher - Top 20 Announced)

Mandy Jo Moore:
The Power Of Love (Tiffany Maher & Ade Obayomi - Top 8, repeated in the finale)
Wild Horses (Lindsay Arnold & Cole Horibe - Top 16)

NappyTabs:
The Circle Of Life (top 10 & all-stars - finale)
The Lovecats (Amelia Lowe & Will Thomas - Top 20 #1, repeated in the finale)
Beautiful People (group number - Top 20 #2)

Travis Wall
Where The Light Gets In (female group - Top 20 Announced)
Without You (Eliana Girard & Alex Wong - Top 10)
Unchained Melody (Audrey Case & Matthew Kazmierczak - Top 20 #1, repeated in the finale)


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

After seeing the 7/23 solos, I am under the impression that the countdown timer is set to hit zero at the pre-planned end of the dancer's solo, as opposed to the dancers being told something like, "You will have exactly 40 seconds."

Also, now that Jasmine Mason was eliminated, Jasmine Harper is "just" Jasmine now.

One more Emmy note: the show can also win one for Costumes for a Variety Program - this is one of those "juried" categories that does not have nominees; instead, every entry is given a "yes" or "no" vote, which has to be pretty much unanimous in order to win an Emmy.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

That Don Guy said:


> After seeing the 7/23 solos, I am under the impression that the countdown timer is set to hit zero at the pre-planned end of the dancer's solo, as opposed to the dancers being told something like, "You will have exactly 40 seconds."


I haven't watched the episode yet...do they explain that in the 7/23 episode, or did you discover this somewhere else?

I also had the impression that when the countdown hits zero, you better figure out a graceful way to end...


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

MikeekiM said:


> I haven't watched the episode yet...do they explain that in the 7/23 episode, or did you discover this somewhere else?


I timed the solos from when the music starts to when it ends; one was 38 seconds, and a couple of others were 40-41. Also, most of the solos seem to have music that just happens to hit an ending point when the time runs out, rather than having an abrupt stop (say, in the middle of a line).



> I also had the impression that when the countdown hits zero, you better figure out a graceful way to end...


That's my point - whoever puts the countdown clock on the screen almost certainly is told by somebody in advance exactly how long the solo is supposed to last.


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## TLTypeS (Dec 27, 2002)

Pure speculation but they may be given a range of beats (40-45 as an example) as opposed to seconds to complete their routine. I think in the music world, things are based in beats, counts and measures rather than seconds.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

Alex Freaking Wong!!!


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Some Emmy news concerning the show: reportedly, Emmy host Neil Patrick Harris wants all of the Emmy-nominated choreographers to come up with a dance routine for him (and others) to do at the Emmys, and because of this, the Choreography Emmy (or Emmys, since it's one of those "more than one nominee can win without it having to be a tie" categories) will be presented on the main telecast. However, to make room for this category, the Reality Show Host category, where Cat Deeley is nominated, has been demoted to the Creative Arts telecast (which will be on FXX this year, in its usual "heavily edited, the night before the main Emmys" broadcast).

Also, I have a feeling Nigel has a little more say in who gets the two "swing" (they appear in group and duet numbers but not solos) spots on the tour, although I am still under the impression that they would prefer choosing someone who has a specialty style they need to fill a duet.


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## voripteth (Apr 9, 2003)

The top 10 are pretty amazing. Nearly every dance with an allstar got a standing ovation. Has anyone compared the dancing level of the current season to the dances from season 1? I'd be curious to see how much things have changed.


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

I haven't been commenting on this season, but it's been one of my favorites. I agree that all of the dancers are great, and I've enjoyed a lot of the choreography. Great opening number with the rocking chairs. I love the fortune teller last week. Katherine's dancing this week was amazing, like she was liquid.


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## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

I'd been pondering getting tickets to the tour, although I have to admit I don't know if I'd be interested or not, since this was the first year they've actually come near me. Tickets went on presale today, but ended up deciding not to because I just found the pricing to be way too high. Their pricing is putting it right at the level of the Broadway musicals that come through, and for me, that's just putting too high a price on it. Zone 2 pricing is more reasonable, but it's far enough away that it's still not worth it for me. It was a borderline call for me on whether to go anyways, but that pretty much sealed it.

That said, the pricing apparently isn't driving everyone away though. I was pretty surprised that even though it isn't even officially on sale to the public yet, it had still sold a lot of tickets. Most of the zone 1 stuff was sold out (and I have to admit, that was part of my annoyance, because I was looking at paying the same price for row T that people paid for much more reasonable seating. Where it's being held, my preference would be somewhere in the F through I rows or so).


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## voripteth (Apr 9, 2003)

What an amazing season! I was hoping that Amy and Fikshun would win it. It isn't surprising at all that Amy got the more votes than anyone else.

It's great to hear that season 11 has been approved as well!


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

voripteth said:


> What an amazing season! I was hoping that Amy and Fikshun would win it. It isn't surprising at all that Amy got the more votes than anyone else.
> 
> It's great to hear that season 11 has been approved as well!


Voripeth, do you live in the Eastern or Central time zones? If you do, did they break in the middle of the show for Obama's speech, and if so, how did they handle it?

Out west, it aired as a solid 2-hour block with no overrun, and I didn't notice any particular spot at the one-hour mark where they would have "paused" for the speech. (Presumably, since they were recording the show anyway, for broadcast out west, they would have just cut into the live show at some point, and then started playing the recording from the point of interruption.)

Also, I wasn't surprised that it was picked up for another season; what does Fox have to air in its place? You would think that it would be one of Fox's cheaper shows to produce, except possibly for the music rights.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

They stopped at 9 Eastern for the speech. I was so happy Amy won. I think she's one of the best dancers they've had. I prefer Aaron to FikShun. I think Paul is probably a better dancer than either of them.


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## Zephyr (Sep 16, 2005)

jehma said:


> They stopped at 9 Eastern for the speech. I was so happy Amy won. I think she's one of the best dancers they've had. I prefer Aaron to FikShun. I think Paul is probably a better dancer than either of them.


I totally agree!


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## Tracy (Mar 12, 2000)

That Don Guy said:


> Voripeth, do you live in the Eastern or Central time zones? If you do, did they break in the middle of the show for Obama's speech, and if so, how did they handle it?
> 
> Out west, it aired as a solid 2-hour block with no overrun, and I didn't notice any particular spot at the one-hour mark where they would have "paused" for the speech. (Presumably, since they were recording the show anyway, for broadcast out west, they would have just cut into the live show at some point, and then started playing the recording from the point of interruption.)
> 
> Also, I wasn't surprised that it was picked up for another season; what does Fox have to air in its place? You would think that it would be one of Fox's cheaper shows to produce, except possibly for the music rights.


I am in the Central time zone so the stop was at 8. It was abrupt. Right at the end of the routine with the two bikes, there was a sudden cut to Nigel (pre-taped) saying that the rest of the show would air at the conclusion of the speech. After the speech, we were back at the end of the bike routine.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Tracy said:


> Right at the end of the routine with the two bikes, there was a sudden cut to Nigel (pre-taped) saying that the rest of the show would air at the conclusion of the speech. After the speech, we were back at the end of the bike routine.


Yeah if happened kindof haphazardly.
It made me question how LIVE the finale was.

Sonia whatsherface was bizarrely absent last night.

the duet between Mary and Nigel was very odd.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Fox knew the speech was coming so they could've had Nigel tape that during a commercial break and insert it on the fly.


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## jeffsinsfo (Oct 16, 2005)

I agree about Paul being better than either Aaron or FikShun. I don't even think FikShun deserved to be in the top two or three, but I guess his enthusiasm/charisma won out over the superior technical skills of the other male dancers.



jehma said:


> They stopped at 9 Eastern for the speech. I was so happy Amy won. I think she's one of the best dancers they've had. I prefer Aaron to FikShun. I think Paul is probably a better dancer than either of them.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Cainebj said:


> Yeah if happened kindof haphazardly.
> It made me question how LIVE the finale was.


On the Pacific broadcast, right at the end of the routine, you can hear a definite change in the applause, so I wouldn't be surprised if they did cut right at that point, then make them get back on stage right after the speech, then just do a little creative editing for the taped broadcast.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

That Don Guy said:


> On the Pacific broadcast, right at the end of the routine, you can hear a definite change in the applause, so I wouldn't be surprised if they did cut right at that point, then make them get back on stage right after the speech, then just do a little creative editing for the taped broadcast.


I don't think they stopped at all. The break was abrupt and the resumption was in the middle of a sentence that Cat was speaking. That was odd. They knew far enough in advance to stop cleanly at a commercial break but they stopped in mid sentence.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

jeffsinsfo said:


> I agree about Paul being better than either Aaron or FikShun. I don't even think FikShun deserved to be in the top two or three, but I guess his enthusiasm/charisma won out over the superior technical skills of the other male dancers.


It annoyed me when they kept comparing him to Twitch. He is no Twitch!

Was one of the top 20 guys missing in the top 20 intro? I thought one of the girls came out alone?


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

jehma said:


> Was one of the top 20 guys missing in the top 20 intro? I thought one of the girls came out alone?


One of the girls (Malice?) did come out alone, and I thought, "hey, who is injured / missing" -- but then fikshun came out alone at the end. It was odd.

Edited to add: don't want to be a Debbie Downer, but I'm sad that a show I used to look forward to and enjoy has come to be one that makes me glad when it's over. I don't understand how the dancers are getting better and better and yet the show is not as satisfactory to me as it was in the earlier seasons. I still love the audition rounds and Vegas week, but once the main show starts, it just goes flat like soda with no fizz. I know that we aren't going to get hummingbird-and-flower routines every season, but that perfect marriage of dancer plus choreographer plus music doesn't even seem possible these days.

I wish I could watch the show and not have it be like a ghost town, haunted by seasons past.

There was the one Broadway routine with two guys which made me long for Evan and Ryan Kasprzak. They would have killed that.

And it doesn't help to have Tyce turning out warmed-over Wade Robson routines. Triplets of Belleville with tramps? We've seen it, Nigel. Move on already.

What will I remember from season 10? Seeing Mark Kanemura and Travis and Twitch dancing again, and enjoying their choreography. And Alex Wong killing the Bollywood number. That was fun.

Of the dancers this season, and their "journey", etc. ad nauseam, I'd have to pick Aaron as my favorite. He was the person that surprised and delighted me every week, although there wasn't any one routine that stuck with me and made me say "I need to run that back and watch it again".

Re: the best dancer: We have this discussion this every season, yeah? Because the competition is not about who is the best dancer. It's America's favorite. And it really doesn't matter in the long run, or shouldn't. The best of them get exposure and if they have the chops, they'll get work. Didn't they say a couple of episodes ago that the dancer who was injured, whom Aaron replaced, got hired for a movie, so it all worked out for him, too?

I agree that Paul was a very fine dancer. Every season I have a handful of dancers I'm rooting for to stick around and not be eliminated, and Paul was on my callback list for sure. Maybe part of the reason that I am no longer in love with the show is that the choreographers don't give those dancers enough opportunity to show their stuff.

As much fun as it is to see the All-Stars again, I wonder if the 'bring the All-Stars back' gimmick is what killed the show for me. Before there were All-Stars the focus was on the current season's dancers, and their partnerships.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

I loved that Nappytabs opener to "Putting on the Ritz". Any routine with/by Christopher Scott is always great. Of the all-stars, of course Alex Wong was fantastic - he always is, but Robert Roldan was a standout as well.

I think I'm getting tired of the formulaic "untrained dancer does good" story.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I'm surprised by how popular Aaron is. He is definitely an amazing tapper, but I thought he was one of the weakest guys in all other areas of the show. Oh well.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

madscientist said:


> I'm surprised by how popular Aaron is. He is definitely an amazing tapper, but I thought he was one of the weakest guys in all other areas of the show. Oh well.


Yebbut... he looked like a man among boys.
IMO.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

jehma said:


> Was one of the top 20 guys missing in the top 20 intro? I thought one of the girls came out alone?





murgatroyd said:


> One of the girls (Malice?) did come out alone, and I thought, "hey, who is injured / missing" -- but then fikshun came out alone at the end. It was odd.


I'm going from memory here so might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure Malece's partner Alan (the ballroom dancer) was missing, as was the guy who dropped out very early on due to an injury. Can't remember his name-- the extremely short animator.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

Cearbhaill said:


> Yebbut... he looked like a man among boys.
> IMO.


This. He's a very mature dancer. Although Fik Shun did manage to get through the more emotional dances, he doesn't have the same kind of emotional gravity that a more mature dancer/person has.

I loved the tap duo Aaron did on the finale. I loved the way they told a story.


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## Tracy (Mar 12, 2000)

Cearbhaill said:


> Yebbut... he looked like a man among boys.
> IMO.


You nailed it.


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## etexlady (Jun 23, 2002)

Very disappointing season and finale. I so wanted Jasmine and Aaron to win. I've watched Jasmine and Marko's entertaining _Blurred Lines_ routine on YouTube a dozen times and never tire of it. Sorry, I don't remember any of Fikshun's work other than thinking a couple of times that he is too small to be believable as a male lead and his partner dancing seemed awkward. Amy's performances were boring to me.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Cearbhaill said:


> Yebbut... he looked like a man among boys.
> IMO.


There's no doubt about that. To me he seemed not terribly agile, but tall and strong so that the women could use him to structure for all their amazing dancing.

I get that sometimes the male lead is mostly there for that kind of structure, but IMO Aaron wasn't very graceful about it.

Anyway, still a fun season!


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

madscientist said:


> I'm surprised by how popular Aaron is. He is definitely an amazing tapper, but I thought he was one of the weakest guys in all other areas of the show. Oh well.


I appreciated his work in the group numbers when he was performing with smaller dancers. He's not a small guy, and it's not a trivial task to match smaller dancers and not screw up the timing of everything.

Other male dancers (Paul) were better, but I wouldn't have put Aaron as one of the weakest.

As usual, though, it would be interesting if the show was structured like Project Runway and the judges were the only ones in charge of which dancer went home.

Way back when, Bravo did a dance show along those lines, but it only lasted one season. It's a pity it didn't last. (IMHO, Bravo's Make Me a Supermodel was more interesting than America's Next Top Model, too.)


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

jehma said:


> Was one of the top 20 guys missing in the top 20 intro? I thought one of the girls came out alone?


Yes - and then but the weird thing was the top 10 men routine with the sand - there were 10 men - I was trying to figure out if they put in a sub - - - or something...

which i have to say is probably the best routine of the season for me. Sand that is.


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## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

Cainebj said:


> Yes - and then but the weird thing was the top 10 men routine with the sand - there were 10 men - I was trying to figure out if they put in a sub - - - or something...


I think they slipped that in as a previously recorded one. I don't think they mentioned it on air, but it was a little suspicious. (Especially suspicious is I'm pretty sure I saw Jade in it doing moves he wouldn't be doing shortly after surgery.)

Gotta be honest, my favorite routine of the year was the top 20 intro routine that they also played as a taped number.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Did anybody else see Travis, Napoleon and Tabitha, Sonja Tayeh, and Mandy Moore (and the dance number) on the Emmys last night?


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

murgatroyd said:


> Did anybody else see Travis, Napoleon and Tabitha, Sonja Tayeh, and Mandy Moore (and the dance number) on the Emmys last night?


Yes- Travis looked like a bundle of nerves.

I did like that they stood them all up there, though.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

I saw Melanie in there as well. It was great that they brought the choreography into the prime time show.


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