# Battlestar Galactica - S2E13- 1/20/06 "Epiphanies"



## Warren (Oct 18, 2001)

This one looks good. Here is a link to the Podcast so you can hear it after you wacth one time.

http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/mp3/213/bsg_ep213_FULL.mp3

Start playing each episode's file when the words "The Cylons Were Created By Man" appear on your TV screen. Beeps will indicate when to pause for commercial breaks.


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## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

That's really cool - thanks for the link! I've never really listened to Podcasts (well, non-TCF made ones ) do many shows do it in this format?


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Ron Moore goes the extra mile for his show. I love it.
Kinda like dvd commentary tracks!


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## lord-dogbert (Jan 31, 2005)

We've lost 6 survivors, where are the Pegasus crew?


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## flyers088 (Apr 19, 2005)

Didn't like the way they did it, but I guess they had to find someway to save the president.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Did that one female pilot drop a F-bomb? She didn't say fraking it sounded like FU*King to me!


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

Kamakzie said:


> Did that one female pilot drop a F-bomb? She didn't say fraking it sounded like FU*King to me!


I think she said "fracking", but just not in the cornballish manner that everyone else has in the past. She said it like she meant it. It sounded like she was really gritting her teeth and it came out sort of like "frucking".


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## dirk1843 (Jul 7, 2003)

Can we get a recap of the cylons we know about??

I quit following the threads last year sometime, and it seems like I am missing one, as I can only count 5 confirmed models.


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

dirk1843 said:


> Can we get a recap of the cylons we know about??
> 
> I quit following the threads last year sometime, and it seems like I am missing one, as I can only count 5 confirmed models.


The Cylons we've met so far are....

Six/Shelly Godfrey/Gina
Leobon (The smuggler on Ragnaros Station, duplicate later interrogated by Starbuck)
Doral (The Press Secretary)
D'anna Biers (XenaCylon, the reporter)
Simon (The Doctor on Caprica)
... and Boomer

So we've seen half of the 12 Human Cylon models.

GREAT episode. I was surprised we not only got to see President Adaar (finally), but they even intimated that he was sleeping with Roslin! Wow. Very wow.

And I totally called her figuring out that Baltar was a Cylon conspirator. I just didn't realize how *much* she knew about him. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out in the coming weeks.


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

So what exactly was Baltar's gift to Six?


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

Graymalkin said:


> So what exactly was Baltar's gift to Six?


It's the nuclear warhead that Adama gave him.


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## RobertE (Aug 24, 2004)

The baby cylon commercial kinda freaked me out at bit.  Actually backed up to watch it in normal speed.


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

So how many days has past since the last episode? This has been the biggest jump in time ever between two episodes.

Anyone feel cheated by the writers for not showing how Gius helped Gina escaped?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

dtle said:


> So how many days has past since the last episode? This has been the biggest jump in time ever between two episodes.
> 
> Anyone feel cheated by the writers for not showing how Gius helped Gina escaped?


Baltar said that it's been a couple of weeks since he last saw Six (he last saw her with the prisoner Gina)...

we also know that the president had a max of a month to live...so we know it's only been 2-3 weeks since the last ep...not a lot of time...

and no...I don't feel cheated they did not show how Gina escaped (see previous ep thread for details  )


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## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

I thought the same thing. I rewound it a couple of times and then dismissed it.



Kamakzie said:


> Did that one female pilot drop a F-bomb? She didn't say fraking it sounded like FU*King to me!


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## Warren (Oct 18, 2001)

RDM said in the last podcast that it is not a big deal how they got off the ship,


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## ethos42 (Jun 2, 2005)

ARGGHHHH!!!! My power went out in the last 20 minutes... anyone willing to help out with a copy?


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## Dmtalon (Dec 28, 2003)

I haven't read anything from this thread yet, because I'm watching this episode now, but I've decided, and since my opinion is SOO important :-/

Battlestar Galactica needs to be on Network TV or Universal HD no later than a week behind the current season in HD. I'm increasingly dissatisfied with the quality of the broadcast on Sci Fi. LOVE the show, HATE the broadcast.


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## DLL66 (Oct 21, 2002)

dtle said:


> So how many days has past since the last episode? This has been the biggest jump in time ever between two episodes.
> 
> Anyone feel cheated by the writers for not showing how Gius helped Gina escaped?


I'm sure we'll get filled in sooner or later.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

RobertE said:


> The baby cylon commercial kinda freaked me out at bit.  Actually backed up to watch it in normal speed.


I was totally offended by it. It had no place in the episode...regardless of how you feel about the sanctity of life.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

ethos42 said:


> ARGGHHHH!!!! My power went out in the last 20 minutes... anyone willing to help out with a copy?


It will be rebroadcast on Monday. 11:00 PM Eastern, 10:00 Central.


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## sschwart (Apr 4, 2001)

I think they took the cheap way out with Laura, and I'm not pleased about it. 

The rest of the episode was good though.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Thought this was episode was just 'ok'. Perhaps it was because I had already guessed how the president would be cured just by watching the previews at the end of last week's show.

Gina sure did scrub up nicely. So I was having a hard time hearing the conversation between her and Baltar. Do the Cylon sympathizers she's with know she's a Cylon or not? I think he asked her but didn't hear her answer. I'm guessing no.


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

Jeeters said:


> Thought this was episode was just 'ok'. Perhaps it was because I had already guessed how the president would be cured just by watching the previews at the end of last week's show.
> 
> Gina sure did scrub up nicely. So I was having a hard time hearing the conversation between her and Baltar. Do the Cylon sympathizers she's with know she's a Cylon or not? I think he asked her but didn't hear her answer. I'm guessing no.


You guess correctly. 

Her response to Gaius was "Of course not. Even their dedication has limits."


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

This is off topic but whatever happened to the fact they supposedly found a route to earth via the Kobol planetarium. Have they given up on that or is their constantly distracted by all this stuff?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> It will be rebroadcast on Monday. 11:00 PM Eastern, 10:00 Central.


Or if you can't wait, you can buy it through iTunes...


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

I found it interesting that Baltar explicitly backed off from collaborating with "Resistance"-Six at one point, yet by the end of the same episode he's proving himself to her with a nuclear warhead?! And do they really not do _any_ kind of check on departing transports, even when it's transporting a former prisoner? A simple rad-sweep should have detected the nuke, and anyway you'd think a resistance leader being handed a giant suitcase just before his flight would raise a few eyebrows...



Skittles said:


> It's the nuclear warhead that Adama gave him.


BTW, according to Imaginary-Six, it's a "nucular" warhead


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

They didn't give a clear path to Earth. They just showed them how the 12 constellations would look from Earth and some nebula as a reference point. They need to work out the rest for themselves. It looked like Baltar was working on something to do with the constellations on his clipboard.


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## ToddAtl (Jul 27, 2003)

lord-dogbert said:


> We've lost 6 survivors, where are the Pegasus crew?


presumably these were all the casualties from last week's battle plus Admiral Kane. The Pegasus is still there with the fleet...


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## questfortruth (Feb 18, 2005)

I enjoyed the episode, including the nod to ST Voyager's "Prophecy" episode in which a group of Klingons in the Delta Quadrant are cured by a transfusion(?) from B'Elanna's unborn child.

Anyhoo...can somebody explain to me how Baltar managed to smuggle a nuke off the Galactica? Yes, it was placed in his care for his cylon-detector, but how crappy does security have to be if nukes can go unaccounted for?


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

questfortruth said:


> I enjoyed the episode, including the nod to ST Voyager's "Prophecy" episode in which a group of Klingons in the Delta Quadrant are cured by a transfusion(?) from B'Elanna's unborn child.
> 
> Anyhoo...can somebody explain to me how Baltar managed to smuggle a nuke off the Galactica? Yes, it was placed in his care for his cylon-detector, but how crappy does security have to be if nukes can go unaccounted for?


... and what's going to happen when the Admiral asks for it back?

"Um, I, um, you see, the truth is, um, I, uh... misplaced it"


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

I think it's funny that Baltar still had the nuke. How long has it been since Baltar was actually working on a cyclon detection device? He's the vice-president now so I doubt he spends a terrible amount of time doing it. And I don't think Adama would just leave a nuke lying around in Baltar's lab, whether Baltar was actively working on the cyclon detection or not. I mean come on, they'd at least lock it up at night. 

I think the make peace with the cyclons resistance is kinda weak. Sure it adds another element to the show and gives Six a place to hang out. But I doubt any of the survivors has forgotten what the cyclons did to the colonies. Unless of course it is being led by a cyclon (not Six, since she just joined).

I think the dynamic between Baltar and Rosyln is going to be very interesting now that she knows of his betrayal. You could tell when she woke up that she definitly remembered her dreams.

I would like to see them get back to finding Earth or some place to sit down now that they've destroyed the Cyclon fleet following them and presumably the Cyclon's are licking their wounds.

Good episode though.


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## quango (Sep 25, 2005)

Bierboy said:


> I was totally offended by it. It had no place in the episode...regardless of how you feel about the sanctity of life.


Technically, the ad isn't part of the episode; presumably, it's just the newest network promo for the show.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

quango said:


> Technically, the ad isn't part of the episode; presumably, it's just the newest network promo for the show.


I didn't see it. Exactly what was it?


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

ToddAtl said:


> The Pegasus is still there with the fleet...


Is it just me, or did the President's "human count" stay the same even when they met the Pegasus? I would think that it should have gone up by at least a thousand...


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Overall I found this episode more, well, annoying, than anything else. 

Out of the blue there's Cylon sympathizers. I don't buy it.

The whole episode was a mess, really. Its very off-putting. 

First the whole "kill the baby" decision seemed abrupt and without much basis. Then the whole "inject the baby's blood into the President and maybe the cancer will go away in 5 minutes" is more like some 11 year old playing doctor. Yeah, they wrote themselves into a corner with the President and as she probably turned out more popular than expected now want her to be around longer. The sabotage/threats by the sympathizers seemed contrived and their demands somewhat unrealistic and pointless considering the fleet's current circumstance. Then you practically have armed threats made against Adama while the cylon is being brought to the medical center to terminate her pregnancy and they do almost nothing about it except let him go.

And then the Pegasus cylon now has a private headquarters and armed guards on Cloud Nine. Yeah, that's really believable, too.

Truthfully after this debacle of an episode, I know I care a little less about the show than I did before I watched it. It's very disappointing.


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## Gene S (Feb 11, 2003)

I think I missed something. It the previews, they showed Baltar explaining the blood on a piece of paper. In the show it was on a wall. 

Also next weeks episode...


Spoiler



Looks like a stand alone episode, not contributing to the cylon storyline.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

quango said:


> Technically, the ad isn't part of the episode; presumably, it's just the newest network promo for the show.


I don't believe it was an "ad"...it was part of the show.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I have no clue what anyone is taking about either as far as the cylon baby commercial is concerned...


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

Anubys said:


> I have no clue what anyone is taking about either as far as the cylon baby commercial is concerned...


It came up at around the 28 minute mark of the show. It was the first commercial of that particular commercial break.

I wasn't bothered by the content of the commercial. I found it intriguing and think it would help bring in new viewers. I *was* bothered by the fact that they were advertising a show in a timeslot where viewers were already watching the show advertised, and that the content of the commercial gave away the fact that BabyBoomer wouldn't be aborted, which killed some of the drama in the show.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Skittles said:


> It came up at around the 28 minute mark of the show. It was the first commercial of that particular commercial break.
> 
> I wasn't bothered by the content of the commercial. I found it intriguing and think it would help bring in new viewers. I *was* bothered by the fact that they were advertising a show to viewers already watching that show, and that the content of the commercial gave away the fact that BabyBoomer wouldn't be aborted, which killed some of the drama in the show.


As a TiVo user, I skip commercials. I didn't see it.


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

dswallow said:


> As a TiVo user, I skip commercials. I didn't see it.


I did too, until I saw the glowing spine and the Galactica logo during the 2xFF. Then I *had* to go back and watch it.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Skittles said:


> I did too, until I saw the glowing spine and the Galactica logo during the 2xFF. Then I *had* to go back and watch it.


30 second skip is your friend. Do not be tempted by the commercial overlords.


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## GadgetFreak (Jun 3, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> I was totally offended by it. It had no place in the episode...regardless of how you feel about the sanctity of life.


Why? Everyone's entitled to their opinion... I just don't understand yours. What made it offensive?


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## questfortruth (Feb 18, 2005)

I actually like the "cylon-sympathizer" storyline.

The show is about the ways in which people cope with calamity. It's not that far-fetched that some people would be so traumatized by the destruction of their civilization and the loss of their loved-ones, that they might embrace such a desperate wish-fulfilling worldview.

After all, Bush is the real terrorist, and if we only admitted that we are really to blame for Osama and 9/11, then peace would spontaneously break out and we would all live happily ever after  

Not that far-fetched a response at all...


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## EchoBravo (Apr 20, 2002)

^^^  ^^^
______________

I'm w/dswallow on this episode. Thought it was a mess. It was the first one in quite awhile that didn't leave me immediately wanting more. In fact, I fell asleep during it and had to come back and finish up the last 20 minutes later. Bleh.


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

NoThru22 said:


> It looked like Baltar was working on something to do with the constellations on his clipboard.


I thought those were just the blood diagrams/equations he was working on ...

As for the commercial ... I totally missed it too. I started FF'ing as soon as it faded to black after the explosion on the tylium refinery ship. So I went back and watched and am puzzled as well ... why give something like that away in the middle of the episode?


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## vikingguy (Aug 12, 2005)

I had high hopes but was let down by the complete miracle cure. I have to play it back but I think she flat lined for 1-2 seconds so the profacy about her dying is now technically done. I was hoping they could extend her life for like a year. I would not mind the pro cyclone people if they were not so orginized and so effective so damn fast. Put up a resistance in a matter of 2 weeks is really reaching. I just hope the show picks it up the rest of the season because the last 2 episodes have been pretty weak.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

windracer said:


> I thought those were just the blood diagrams/equations he was working on ...
> 
> As for the commercial ... I totally missed it too. I started FF'ing as soon as it faded to black after the explosion on the tylium refinery ship. So I went back and watched and am puzzled as well ... why give something like that away in the middle of the episode?


I make it a rule to use the 30 second skip instead of FF for the scifi channel...their in-house promos are notorious for spoilers...they don't play teasers, they play spoilers...the absolute height of stupidity, IMO...


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## Warren (Oct 18, 2001)

she dddn't have to die of cancer. As long as she dies before they get to earth then they didn't break any rules.


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## J4yDubs (Jul 3, 2002)

This episode felt disorganized. Haven't listened to the podcast yet, so maybe it was on purpose. It wasn't up to the normal high standard.

The baby cylon cure was disappointing. Very last minute Star Trek'ish. So is the president now "infected"? Will they use this miracle cure on other sick people? Did the cylon/human blood also "fix" the organs that were damaged by the cancer? Uhhgg.

John


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

they said she had a road to recovery but the "cancer is gone"


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## stark (Dec 31, 2003)

If the cylons use some type of nanotechnology that affects the brain, did they just infect the President?


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

stark said:


> If the cylons use some type of nanotechnology that affects the brain, did they just infect the President?


I've been thinking worse than that: Maybe after it wipes our her cancer it will then target her normal cells and slowly convert her into a Cylon? And she might not even know it's happening until it's too late.


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## questfortruth (Feb 18, 2005)

Jeeters said:


> I've been thinking worse than that: Maybe after it wipes our her cancer it will then target her normal cells and slowly convert her into a Cylon? And she might not even know it's happening until it's too late.


That's why it was a good choice by the writers.


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## mrmike (May 2, 2001)

I can only imagine what would happen if she started having "visions" like Gaius. She's already convinced she's prophetic. The things they could do with this. I'm eager to see where we go.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

Jeeters said:


> I've been thinking worse than that: Maybe after it wipes our her cancer it will then target her normal cells and slowly convert her into a Cylon? And she might not even know it's happening until it's too late.


Resistance is futile...or something like that.

Cloud 9 Six was the best she's ever looked. Wow.


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## J4yDubs (Jul 3, 2002)

Gunnyman said:


> they said she had a road to recovery but the "cancer is gone"


The problem is that just removing the cancer isn't enough. Cancer isn't what kills you. It's the damage it does to the organs that kills you. If she was almost at death, just removing the cancer wouldn't have been enough. The cylon tech would also have to repair everything.

It does open up so interesting plot lines, but I still don't like it.

John


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

J4yDubs said:


> The problem is that just removing the cancer isn't enough. Cancer isn't what kills you. It's the damage it does to the organs that kills you. If she was almost at death, just removing the cancer wouldn't have been enough. The cylon tech would also have to repair everything.
> 
> It does open up so interesting plot lines, but I still don't like it.


Or plot holes.


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## ccooperev (Apr 24, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> I was totally offended by it. It had no place in the episode...regardless of how you feel about the sanctity of life.


The director's commentary indicated that they've deliberatly played around with the liberal notiions and that the point of view of the show is supposedly neutral even if the most writers have a liberal bias. I also was taken aback by the depiction of the anti-war faction. Obviously in a situation like this, when there is clear and present danger, anti-war protesters would be nothing but wack. I mean seriously when 49,598 souls are all that are left of a world of billions, there's not much room for pacifism. But, comparing it to Earth history, pacifism and anti-war protesters have and continue to have an important role to play in the world stage.

So this episode was an interesting and controversial inversion of our Earth paridigm about war.

I think in the end, it will be forgiveness and understanding that is going to be the key to the survival of both the Humans and the Cylons. The whole thing with the saving of President Roslyn with antigens taken from the Human/Cylon fetus shows that.


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## xmajic (Nov 27, 2001)

questfortruth said:


> I enjoyed the episode, including the nod to ST Voyager's "Prophecy" episode in which a group of Klingons in the Delta Quadrant are cured by a transfusion(?) from B'Elanna's unborn child.
> 
> Anyhoo...can somebody explain to me how Baltar managed to smuggle a nuke off the Galactica? Yes, it was placed in his care for his cylon-detector, but how crappy does security have to be if nukes can go unaccounted for?


Well Baltar is the vice-prez. So I'm sure he's got some amount of pull. Also, security is mostly for intrusion purposes. They rarely check you on the way out.

Which leads to me to a couple of more questions:

1) Maybe I missed this but, did the Cyclon detector get scrubbed? I would think they need it now, more than ever.

2) If yes to question 1, won't Adama be asking for his nuclear warhead back soon?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs has long theorized that there are two factions withing the cylons; one that wants to wipe out humanity, and one that wants peace and interaction... 

I wonder if the writers are setting up the parallels within the Human side as well... 

assuming Rob is right, of course (there's a first time for everything!)


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

Someone asked why Baltar went from not supporting Gina and the pacifists to giving her the nuke. That's easy. When he read Roslyn's letter saying she didn't like him and he needed to be more compassionate if he became president, it pissed him off royally. You could tell that by the look on his face. 

I watched the show live and didn't care for the "pro life" commercial about the cylon baby. Made me think it was a concession for the pro-lifers in the audience to offset all the abortion talk. And, THAT, offended me. It's fiction folks! IMHO, the writers shouldn't have to placate part of the population just for ratings sake (or to prevent complaints from the moral majority).

If someone here had not suggested stem cells from the fetus would save Roslyn, I would've enjoyed the surprise of the episode more though. But I thought it was a good episode. 

I do believe the cylon blood will begin taking over the President eventually. And that will lead to some interesting moral connundrums for everyone. Also, will the Cylon blood somehow make her forget her memories of seeing Baltar with Gina back on the planet?

There were two real ironies in Roslyn's flashbacks to Caprica: First, it was clear she WAS having an affair with the former president and second, he was going to remove her from her position after the decommissioning ceremony of Galactica. The true irony is that she wouldn't have even been in line for succession to the Presidency had he removed her before that. 

Also, I'm not sure what the parallel between the teachers' strike on Caprica and the negotiations with the "peace" group in the fleet now will be, but there seemed to be some point to that part of the flashbacks (other than pissing off the previous president). Also, that showed me that Roslyn did have some balls even when she was only Secretary of Education. 

What did bother me was Helo went from being on death row to threatening to pull a gun on Adama when they were taking Sharon in for the abortion. I mean, forgiving he and the Chief and letting them go back to their jobs is one thing, but Helo's actions in this case should've been enough for Adama to throw him in the brig forever as a repeat offender. That's the only part of the plot that seemed unbeliever to me.

Cheryl


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I think that the president will be fine...but I do think that she will always be accused of being a cylon agent because of being "contaminated" with their blood...there will always be a cloud of suspicion hanging over her...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> I don't believe it was an "ad"...it was part of the show.


It was a commercial. Not part of the episode.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

J4yDubs said:


> This episode felt disorganized. Haven't listened to the podcast yet, so maybe it was on purpose. It wasn't up to the normal high standard.
> 
> The baby cylon cure was disappointing. Very last minute Star Trek'ish. So is the president now "infected"? Will they use this miracle cure on other sick people? Did the cylon/human blood also "fix" the organs that were damaged by the cancer? Uhhgg.
> 
> John


Podcast insight:

They had wanted to make the cure related to stem cell technology, but couldn't make it fit with the story...That is, it would have required actual surgeries and time, and further technological explanations that they didn't want to try and deal with. Basically it came down to the old, "it just works, don't worry about it" approach... (my quotes, not theirs)


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Adama has lost his mind. Based on his actions in this episode, Helo should have been encased in concrete and pushed out an airlock in the direction of the nearest star. His judgement has become so impaired, his loalty so misplaced, that he cannot be trusted in any way whatsoever aboard Galactica. 

I hope Roslyn doesn't get away scot free. Using the Cylon fetal blood should have some serious future implications.

I really hope there's no Cylon baby. I don't want any kids on this show. 

I agree with some other posters tht there should have been rumblings of Cylon sympathisers before now.

I guess I don't fully understand why Baltar was so pissed at Roslyn's letter that he'd give a nuke to the sympathisers. Doesn't everybody (including himself) think he's a selfish, egocentric, erratic, untrustworthy nut?


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

getbak said:


> Cloud 9 Six was the best she's ever looked. Wow.


It's the glasses. :up: Gotta love the glasses.

(Just like parallel universe Sam on SG-1)


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## ovr8ted (Feb 27, 2005)

Was it the Cylon's blood that is different, or Boomer's baby's blood? Because if it is the Cylon's blood, then it is a good thing Adama gave Gaius that Nuke  Of course the Prez. doctor should have been able to autopsy the differences between humans and Cylons, but, , , , 

Interesting plot direction, though like dswallow, I'm not sold on this path just yet. 

What would Joss have done here, my guess, kill of Prez Laura, but then again, his show is no longer on TV, so what do I know?


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## Tangent (Feb 25, 2005)

I thought the commercial was pretty clever. It _looked_ like some pro-life commercial or something, then the kids spine starts glowing and it appears to give you the evil eye. Like many other Sci-Fi channel commercials it looks like some mundane thing you see everywhere then it turns around and turns into the something cool/creepy.

So now that Baltar has made it clear that he _can_ tell the difference between human and Cylon blood I hope they'll be pushing him to finish that detector. For frak's sake Doc Cottle with a simple blood test was able to detect something "damned odd" about the blood yet supposed genius Baltar can't figure out how to make a detector?



> What did bother me was Helo went from being on death row to threatening to pull a gun on Adama when they were taking Sharon in for the abortion. I mean, forgiving he and the Chief and letting them go back to their jobs is one thing, but Helo's actions in this case should've been enough for Adama to throw him in the brig forever as a repeat offender. That's the only part of the plot that seemed unbeliever to me.


Considering that Adama himself had just launched Vipers and threatened a catastrophic conflict with the Pegasus to save 2 of his crew and the enormous and precious resources spent looking for Starbuck in Season 1 I think it's perfectly reasonable for his to cut Helo some slack in his defense of his child.

I'm just amazed that there isn't more widespread talk about how the vice-president is a freaking nutjob. We have a vice president that uses a very uncommon yet still technically correct spelling of the word potato and it's all over the news for months. Baltar on the other hand frequently talks to nothing, chokes himself with his own necktie, seems to not recognize that a person is standing right next to him, etc but nobody is saying more than that he's a bit odd???


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## jfjellstad (May 6, 2002)

In the prophecy, do we know which leader will die before they reach Earth? I know everybody thinks it's Roselyn, but what if it's Adama? He is just as much a leader as Roslyn is, if not more.


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## xmajic (Nov 27, 2001)

jfjellstad said:


> In the prophecy, do we know which leader will die before they reach Earth? I know everybody thinks it's Roselyn, but what if it's Adama? He is just as much a leader as Roslyn is, if not more.


It would be Rosylin. She's the one who initiated the search for the Arrow. She had the visions - the snakes, the structure on Kobol, etc. However, now that she has cheated death, I dunno know either. Maybe she has just cheated death for the short term?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

xmajic said:


> Maybe she has just cheated death for the short term?


Or maybe she's pissed off the gods...


----------



## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Or maybe she's pissed off the gods...


Or at least the zealots  And the ones who would be bothered by her loss of "Moses-hood" would be deeply disturbed if they found out how she was cured...

If they're smart, Roslyn and Adama will downplay the extent of her recovery as long as possible.


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

He finished the Cylon detector a long time ago. Remember, he's supposed to be testing everyone on the ship but it'll take forever. It even detected Sharon was a Cylon, but Gina (Six) convinced Baltar to make everyone come out negative.


----------



## Warren (Oct 18, 2001)

well Bill hasn't had visions yet. She saw visions and was dyeing thats why they thought she was the "profit" If Bill starts seeing things then he might be the one to die but I doubt it


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Wow, some interesting thoughts in this thread. 

I don't like the direction of the Cylon Sympathizers. Agreed they should have been rumblings about them before. Most of the fleet should really think they're nut-jobs. And they pretty much appeared to be, but really scary nut jobs, with a Cylon leader and a nuke.

Can Presiident Roslyn really trust her memory of seeing Baltar kissing Six? I mean, she was near death and having weird fuzzy visions. Baltar might convince her that's all it was. 

Six. Glasses. HOT. I was never a fan of the "glam" Six look.

Agreed that Helo should have been relieved of duty, but he DID step down when ordered to. He never drew his weapon. But the fleets gotta be running short on qualified military personell at this point. They just can't throw their people in the brig without an EXTREMELY good reason. And the killing was a totally unintentiona, in the midst of the guy mistreating and raping a prisoner... I'm not sure the offense was that unexcusible.

About the Cylon Baby promo... LOVED it.  I don't think it was in any way over the line... just a parody of those right to life commercials. Mild at that. And I don't think it really had anything to do with the show producers, or any intent they have for the whole plot, they could easily kill the baby in a show to come. It doesn't set in cement that it's going to be born. Although to me it's the most interesting part of the show right now.

Does Resistance Six have memories of Caprica Six? Does Pregnant Caprica Boomer have memories of Galactica Boomer? Or are memories downloaded to only those aboard ressurection ships? Or can the be downloaded to a fully functioning Cylon? I'm confused.

I enjoyed the show, but not as much as other eps. But they've gotta take it somewhere... they're beyond where the old storyline went, aren't they? I guess they haven't done the "heaven ship" and Devil-guy story. But it's probably one they could skip IMO.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

> What would Joss have done here, my guess, kill of Prez Laura, but then again, his show is no longer on TV, so what do I know?


He would probably have done it as a musical... or thrown in some "witty" one-liners to get some "comic relief".


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> I guess I don't fully understand why Baltar was so pissed at Roslyn's letter that he'd give a nuke to the sympathisers.





cheesesteak said:


> he's a selfish, egocentric, erratic, untrustworthy nut?


I think you just answered your own question.


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

How do the peace-activists NOT know that their leader Gina is a Cylon? Her pictures should've been sent to every ship by now. The secret about Cylons looking like human is out, isn't it?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

dtle said:


> How do the peace-activists NOT know that their leader Gina is a Cylon? Her pictures should've been sent to every ship by now. The secret about Cylons looking like human is out, isn't it?


I was wondering the same thing myself...Shelly Godfree has been known to the fleet since...well...Shelly Godfree surfaced...

it's not like it was a secret, either...Baltar was almost killed because of her accusations...


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

Anubys said:


> I was wondering the same thing myself...Shelly Godfree has been known to the fleet since...well...Shelly Godfree surfaced...
> 
> it's not like it was a secret, either...Baltar was almost killed because of her accusations...


She was wearing glasses. Clearly, the activists are being led by Lois Lane.


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## xmajic (Nov 27, 2001)

getbak said:


> She was wearing glasses. Clearly, the activists are being led by Lois Lane.


Hahaha! Lois Lane Six!


----------



## Hersheytx (Feb 15, 2003)

questfortruth said:


> I enjoyed the episode, including the nod to ST Voyager's "Prophecy" episode in which a group of Klingons in the Delta Quadrant are cured by a transfusion(?) from B'Elanna's unborn child.
> 
> Anyhoo...can somebody explain to me how Baltar managed to smuggle a nuke off the Galactica? Yes, it was placed in his care for his cylon-detector, but how crappy does security have to be if nukes can go unaccounted for?


As far as the nuke... He is the vice president, so I would think that it wouldn't be that hard for him to get some "medical" suplies . After all he did have a way to get a cylon off of the pegasus after she shot the admiral so how hard gould it be to get a suitcase off of a ship hidden.
The presidents memory will come up again sometime soon and I am curious how that will handle it. I'm also wondering if there will be any side effects of the cylon/human hybrid blood in the president.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Hersheytx said:


> As far as the nuke... He is the vice president, so I would think that it wouldn't be that hard for him to get some "medical" suplies . After all he did have a way to get a cylon off of the pegasus after she shot the admiral so how hard gould it be to get a suitcase off of a ship hidden.


that suitcase was given to the spokesperson of a group that had sabotaged more than one military vessel...as he was being released from prison, and under the watchful eyes of the CAG himself...

and nobody thought of checking the suitcase?!

there are a couple of places where the writers really pushed our Credulity... this was one of them...


----------



## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

Tangent said:


> So now that Baltar has made it clear that he _can_ tell the difference between human and Cylon blood I hope they'll be pushing him to finish that detector. For frak's sake Doc Cottle with a simple blood test was able to detect something "damned odd" about the blood yet supposed genius Baltar can't figure out how to make a detector?


I don't think so. Despite the way that Baltar tried to describe the process, I think the anomaly is strictly with the baby's blood. If there was something that obvious to tell a regular cylon's blood from a human then Doc Cottle would have found it during his autopsy.


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## danieljanderson (Nov 19, 2002)

Hersheytx said:


> The presidents memory will come up again sometime soon and I am curious how that will handle it. I'm also wondering if there will be any side effects of the cylon/human hybrid blood in the president.


When she starts to point fingers at Baltar, he will claim that the Cylon blood is taking over. - or something like that.


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

Peter000 said:


> Does Resistance Six have memories of Caprica Six? Does Pregnant Caprica Boomer have memories of Galactica Boomer? Or are memories downloaded to only those aboard ressurection ships? Or can the be downloaded to a fully functioning Cylon? I'm confused.


Caprica Boomer shared Galactica Boomer's memories because she needed to play the same role. Presumably Resistance Six had a different cover story from Baltar's Six, so they wouldn't have (necessarily) shared memories to the same extent.

Theoretically a copy is out there with memories from Baltar's Six, but she's probably back with the fleet rather than taking on new infiltration assignments (better to have a "fresh" mind for that). That is, assuming she didn't download her consciousness directly into Baltar's head...

The degree of memory sharing between the two Boomers does raise an interesting question with regard to cylon "souls". Where do they draw the line between downloading memories vs. downloading their unique consciousness? C-Boomer and G-Boomer existed at the same time, so they obviously(?) couldn't have been the same "soul"; yet C-Boomer seems to have complete memories right up to the point of G-Boomer's death. Is there more than just memories being transferred upon their deaths?


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

dtle said:


> How do the peace-activists NOT know that their leader Gina is a Cylon? Her pictures should've been sent to every ship by now. The secret about Cylons looking like human is out, isn't it?


Yes it is. However, IIRC, they've never said one way or the other if all the ships in the fleet have copies of the Cylon photographs. And it's likely that, even if they do, only key personnel have that information.


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

Anubys said:


> that suitcase was given to the spokesperson of a group that had sabotaged more than one military vessel...as he was being released from prison, and under the watchful eyes of the CAG himself...
> 
> and nobody thought of checking the suitcase?!
> 
> there are a couple of places where the writers really pushed our Credulity... this was one of them...


Actually, it's really not that unbelievable, if you think about it. They've already demonstrated that there are severe gaps in Galactica's internal security.

- There was the sabotage of the Raptor that nearly killed Col. Tighe.
- There's a saboteur on board that tampered with munitions for the Vipers.
- A clone of Doral was able to sneak on board and nearly blow up the bridge.
- Cylons managed to board the ship by landing in the other docking bay, which no one thought to check.
- Roslin was able to be smuggled off the ship under faked orders from Doc Cottle.

They've presented lots of cases showing the lax security of Galactica. Not to mention that we're dealing with a crew of military personnel that's had no R&R in over 6 months time. It's plausible to believe there are gaps in their security. I'm kind of thinking that'll become something they address later on, too.


----------



## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

Plus, wasn't Baltar supervising the departure of the suitcase guy? Who would dare to stop him when the Vice President is seeing him off?


----------



## treyj (May 13, 2002)

dtle said:


> How do the peace-activists NOT know that their leader Gina is a Cylon? Her pictures should've been sent to every ship by now. The secret about Cylons looking like human is out, isn't it?


Who says they don't know? I just assumed the did know and felt she would be perfect as their leader.

While I do think she looks hot with glasses... um... why would a cylon need glasses? None of the other Sixes have needed them! Is that really a poor attempt to change her looks (a.k.a. Clark Kent, as mentioned earlier)? Come on!

Regarding why the survivor count didn't change with the Pegasus, maybe that is only the civilian count, and therefore didn't change at all with the addition of more military personnel.

I heard a rumor that this episode was out of order -- that there was at least one or two episodes that should've come between the prior ep and this one. That would explain why so much happened without explanation.

Maybe if Boomer has her baby, it will grow into a little boy, and they will make it a mechanical daggit named Muffit.


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## J4yDubs (Jul 3, 2002)

hefe said:


> Podcast insight:
> They had wanted to make the cure related to stem cell technology, but couldn't make it fit with the story...That is, it would have required actual surgeries and time, and further technological explanations that they didn't want to try and deal with. Basically it came down to the old, "it just works, don't worry about it" approach... (my quotes, not theirs)


I figured a stem cell tie-in since it's a current hot topic. Was surprised when it didn't happen. I agree, it might have been to much.

The "it just happens, no need to explain it" excuse is being used too much now. They used it for the Gina Pegasus escape and now this (I still haven't listened to the podcast, so I'm going on the quoted post)? I hope they don't don't continue to use that out. It could end up being worst than the technobable they are trying to avoid.

Oh yeah, Resistance (Secret Identity) Six is hawt! Glam Six was nice but SI Six is her look.

John


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

Her hair color is the biggest change, not the glasses. And glasses can easily be used to obfuscate your appearance in a crowd.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

treyj said:


> Who says they don't know? I just assumed the did know and felt she would be perfect as their leader.
> 
> While I do think she looks hot with glasses... um... why would a cylon need glasses? None of the other Sixes have needed them! Is that really a poor attempt to change her looks (a.k.a. Clark Kent, as mentioned earlier)? Come on!
> 
> ...


Shelley Godfrey wore glasses. I believe she left them behind when she disappeared.


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## J4yDubs (Jul 3, 2002)

treyj said:


> Maybe if Boomer has her baby, it will grow into a little boy, and they will make it a mechanical daggit named Muffit.


That reminds me. What ever happened to Boxey from the mini-series? Not that I'm complaining or anything...

John


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

treyj said:


> While I do think she looks hot with glasses... um... why would a cylon need glasses? None of the other Sixes have needed them!


It's because she's not comfortable with the idea of sex right now. And guys don't make passes at girls who wear glasses.


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## SparkleMotion (Feb 2, 2004)

treyj said:


> While I do think she looks hot with glasses... um... why would a cylon need glasses? None of the other Sixes have needed them! Is that really a poor attempt to change her looks (a.k.a. Clark Kent, as mentioned earlier)? Come on!


She doesn't need them. Once alone with Baltar, she took them off. It's a ruse.


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

J4yDubs said:


> That reminds me. What ever happened to Boxey from the mini-series? Not that I'm complaining or anything...
> 
> John


He was in one episode in the first season, accompanying Starbuck to a pilot's briefing. Last I heard, he was working in the Tillium Refinery aboard the SS Kathy Lee.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Skittles said:


> Yes it is. However, IIRC, they've never said one way or the other if all the ships in the fleet have copies of the Cylon photographs. And it's likely that, even if they do, only key personnel have that information.


nope. no way. not good enough!

they had a press conference to announce that cylons look like humans. They distributed pictures of Doral. Spylons are the highest priority, I would imagine every single survivor's top priority is to find them. Their pictures should be hanging from every pole, on every wall, in every screen saver, every milk carton...

anything less would be too far removed from reality...


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## Cue-Ball (Oct 8, 2002)

Anubys said:


> nope. no way. not good enough!
> 
> they had a press conference to announce that cylons look like humans. They distributed pictures of Doral. Spylons are the highest priority, I would imagine every single survivor's top priority is to find them. Their pictures should be hanging from every pole, on every wall, in every screen saver, every milk carton...
> 
> anything less would be too far removed from reality...


Well, it's quite obvious that the fleet hasn't been shown what all of the known Cylons look like. Even Baltar said "what's this" when he saw the folder of cylon model pictures. Like you said, the press has seen the picture of Doral, but that's it.

I agree that it doesn't make sense that this info hasn't been passed around, but it hasn't. So at least that part of the writing is consistent.


----------



## Cue-Ball (Oct 8, 2002)

Tangent said:


> So now that Baltar has made it clear that he _can_ tell the difference between human and Cylon blood I hope they'll be pushing him to finish that detector. For frak's sake Doc Cottle with a simple blood test was able to detect something "damned odd" about the blood yet supposed genius Baltar can't figure out how to make a detector?


Don't confuse cylon blood with the cylon/human fetus blood. Both the doctor and Gaius have said that cursory examination of a cylon shows no differences between them and humans. It takes a much more in-depth look to tell who is who. As far as this episode is concerned they're discussing the blood of the fetus which may or may not be different from cylon blood. So, either they've just figured out something new and different about cylons when compared to humans, or the cylon/human fetus has different blood than a regular cylon. I'm betting on the latter. I think I'd liken it to different blood types. Something that you can't just see by looking through a microscope.



> I'm just amazed that there isn't more widespread talk about how the vice-president is a freaking nutjob. We have a vice president that uses a very uncommon yet still technically correct spelling of the word potato and it's all over the news for months. Baltar on the other hand frequently talks to nothing, chokes himself with his own necktie, seems to not recognize that a person is standing right next to him, etc but nobody is saying more than that he's a bit odd???


They made a very big deal about multiple people seeing Gaius talk to himself in the hallways this episode. I have a feeling that since Laura is now getting better and will be around a while, the whole issue of the crazy VP is going to come to a head soon. Not only does he talk to himself, but now Laura knows that he is in cahoots with Six. He's gonna have some 'splainin' to do real soon now.

And put me in for one more vote of "that sucked" that they miraculously cured Laura's cancer.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

OT but an interesting tidbit... I'm rewatching Season 2 on UHD. In the episode called "Resistance", Tighe is interrogating the Chief about his knowledge of Sharon as a Cylon. Tighe suspects the Chief is a Cylon and Chief starts spouting off his military history. One of the ships he served on was Pegasus.


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

I'm skeptical about President Laura being affected by the Cylon blood.

If it were going to take over her brain, or affect her in some negative way, then why was Gina so upset that Baltar missed his chance at the presidency?

Obviously, they want a Cylon sympathizer or someone they can control in that post, and the Cylons seem very disappointed they didn't get it.

That would imply they can't control Laura Roslyn or directly kill her with the Cylon blood.


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Another OT but interesting tidbit. Regarding Roslyn's remembrance of Baltar and Six on Caprica....remember their conversation in "Six Degrees of Separation", when Baltar was imprisoned. She said something like, "My gut tells me that somehow you were involved."

Now she knows how. This should be interesting.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I don't think she will be affected...but she will certainly be accused of that... 

do you think that terrorist guy who almost got to be her VP will miss a chance like this?


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## Zen98031 (Sep 29, 2005)

I think that "terrorist guy", (Tom Skerrick?), has learned that his support is not as strong as he thought, and that Roslyne is a better leader than he originally gave her credit for. I don't see him trying anything any longer. 

This show was one of the weaker ones but I'm confident they will come back strong. 

Mitch


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Zen98031 said:


> I think that "terrorist guy", (Tom Skerrick?), has learned that his support is not as strong as he thought, and that Roslyne is a better leader than he originally gave her credit for. I don't see him trying anything any longer.
> 
> This show was one of the weaker ones but I'm confident they will come back strong.
> 
> Mitch


I think the only reason he backed off was because she was dying. There would have been no point in challenging her any further. It just would have appeared that he was kicking her while she was down. Now that she appears to be making a full recovery, all bets are off.


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## Zen98031 (Sep 29, 2005)

PJO1966 said:


> I think the only reason he backed off was because she was dying. There would have been no point in challenging her any further. It just would have appeared that he was kicking her while she was down. Now that she appears to be making a full recovery, all bets are off.


I kinda hope not, only because I really did not like that story line. Seemed even less plausible then a group of people wanting a "Sing Along" with the Cylons. You would think that people would be happy to be alive and appreciative of what Galactica is doing for them.

Will just have to watch and see where they go...

Mitch


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Zen98031 said:


> I kinda hope not, only because I really did not like that story line. Seemed even less plausible then a group of people wanting a "Sing Along" with the Cylons. You would think that people would be happy to be alive and appreciative of what Galactica is doing for them.
> 
> Will just have to watch and see where they go...
> 
> Mitch


You would think that but if you listen to the commentary, Moore goes into the thinking behind the sympathizers.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Sirius Black said:


> You would think that but if you listen to the commentary, Moore goes into the thinking behind the sympathizers.


They need to place elements neceessary to understand and believe the actions of characters within the show itself; if listening to commentary is the only way something makes sense, then something's wrong.


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## Zen98031 (Sep 29, 2005)

Sirius Black said:


> You would think that but if you listen to the commentary, Moore goes into the thinking behind the sympathizers.


Yeah, I will have to start listening to the commentaries, but the writing should be such that a viewer does not need the commentaries to know what is going on. I can see a time where there may be a danger of relying on the commentaries to explain things too much.

ETA: Thats what I get for posting at work and having it take a while, somebody else posts the same thought I had... 

Mitch


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

Did anyone else notice, and think it odd, that Six was able to pick up the letter from Roslynn and walk across the room with hit? I may have missed something, but I thought that the Six in Baltar's head was nothing more than his imagination. For example, when Six grabbed him by the tie, it panned out to show him basically strangling himself with his own tie.


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## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

this episode seemed hacked together. when they came up with the miracle cure I groaned. if they were desperate to keep Roslyn around, devise a neural trawl, map her mind, and digitize it into a simulation (see the novels of Alistair Reynolds).


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

jradford said:


> Did anyone else notice, and think it odd, that Six was able to pick up the letter from Roslynn and walk across the room with hit? I may have missed something, but I thought that the Six in Baltar's head was nothing more than his imagination. For example, when Six grabbed him by the tie, it panned out to show him basically strangling himself with his own tie.


But he wound up with it in his hand. So basically, we was imagining she took it. As long as he wound up with it, his brain painted in the rest.


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## SparkleMotion (Feb 2, 2004)

IndyJones1023 said:


> But he wound up with it in his hand. So basically, we was imagining she took it. As long as he wound up with it, his brain painted in the rest.


Essentially what I was thinking as well.


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

If you think about it, part of the reason that the resistance movement seems "out of the blue" to us is because we see the military perspective on this show, and the military guys clearly didn't see it coming either. There could be plenty of rumblings going around on the civilian ships that the Galactica crew never even hear about, much less pay attention to. 

Now Roslyn, OTOH, should have been more in touch with "the people"; but she's been ill, and anyway she never had the kind of political machine in place that perhaps she should...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

dswallow said:


> They need to place elements neceessary to understand and believe the actions of characters within the show itself; if listening to commentary is the only way something makes sense, then something's wrong.


It's not the only way. You can come to conclusions that make sense by filling in the blanks yourself, and storytellers often allow that to happen, allow for personal interpretations. But hearing the POV of the author(s) can be interesting.

Also, sometimes you get an insight that would become apparent in another episode or two anyway. It's not so much that there's specific spoilers, but some things just come out as he describes how they came to include a storyline, or some of the background of the writing or production process.

But if I weren't listening to the commentary, I'd still be enjoying the show.


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## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

IndyJones1023 said:


> But he wound up with it in his hand. So basically, we was imagining she took it. As long as he wound up with it, his brain painted in the rest.


Reminds me of the time Starbuck caught him pleasuring himself in his lab,lmao


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

IndyJones1023 said:


> But he wound up with it in his hand. So basically, we was imagining she took it. As long as he wound up with it, his brain painted in the rest.


Just like earlier in the episode Six was choking him by pulling on his tie. But then we got the POV of the guards and it was actually Baltar choking himself.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

IndyJones1023 said:


> But he wound up with it in his hand. So basically, we was imagining she took it. As long as he wound up with it, his brain painted in the rest.


Fair enough.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

Jonathan_S said:


> Just like earlier in the episode Six was choking him by pulling on his tie. But then we got the POV of the guards and it was actually Baltar choking himself.


Right, but the significant difference seemed to me that the guards came up on HIM choking HIMSELF. With the letter, she picked it up and moved across the room with it away from him. It was BECAUSE of the tie scene that this caught my eye and made me think, "what would people see if they walked up on him in that scene."


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## magaggie (Apr 9, 2002)

jfjellstad said:


> In the prophecy, do we know which leader will die before they reach Earth? I know everybody thinks it's Roselyn, but what if it's Adama? He is just as much a leader as Roslyn is, if not more.


I actually think its Starbuck

- Visions of 12 snakes? - Starbuck came up with the idea of the 12 vipers attacking. 
- Lead their people to Earth? Starbuck's the one who got the arrow, which showed them the way to Earth.

She's just not hallucinating or dying, but she's the one fulfilling all the prophecy goodness in my book


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

jradford said:


> Right, but the significant difference seemed to me that the guards came up on HIM choking HIMSELF. With the letter, she picked it up and moved across the room with it away from him. It was BECAUSE of the tie scene that this caught my eye and made me think, "what would people see if they walked up on him in that scene."


They probably would have seen him sitting at the desk with the letter in his hand.


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## xmajic (Nov 27, 2001)

SparkleMotion said:


> She doesn't need them. Once alone with Baltar, she took them off. It's a ruse.


Secret Identity Six did get the pulp beat out her by the Pegasus crew. Maybe it affected her vision.


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## xmajic (Nov 27, 2001)

Skittles said:


> He was in one episode in the first season, accompanying Starbuck to a pilot's briefing. Last I heard, he was working in the Tillium Refinery aboard the SS Kathy Lee.


ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## xmajic (Nov 27, 2001)

magaggie said:


> I actually think its Starbuck
> 
> - Visions of 12 snakes? - Starbuck came up with the idea of the 12 vipers attacking.
> - Lead their people to Earth? Starbuck's the one who got the arrow, which showed them the way to Earth.
> ...


That's _very_ perceptive of you. I had not even begun to think of Starbuck. Not to mention, she _is_ rising thru the ranks now.

Good call.


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## TheSlyBear (Dec 26, 2002)

With regards to the blood issue, I'm pretty sure I heard the term "amalgam" used. Which, acording to dictionary.com is: A combination of diverse elements.

So I agree with those that have posted that the fetus blood is unlike either human or cylon blood and exhibits properties of its own.

Hence, blood is useless as a cylon detector.

Though it'd probably be a good hybrid detector... if they checked all of the kids' blood, wonder what they'd find? If there are more sleeper cylons in the fleet, some of them may have had children with human partners.


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## jwreiner (Aug 19, 2003)

bootedbear said:


> Hence, blood is useless as a cylon detector.


BG hasn't been remotely consistent about how easy it is to distinguish cylons from humans, and for better or worse, that is just the way it is. The plots seem to require both that it be very difficult to distinguish cylons from everyone else and that cylons have a variety of amazing powers. These two things don't go together easily.


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## nowandthen (Mar 21, 2003)

treyj said:


> Regarding why the survivor count didn't change with the Pegasus, maybe that is only the civilian count, and therefore didn't change at all with the addition of more military personnel.


IIRC, the count prior to the Pegasus showing up was 47 thousand and change. After they showed up it jumped to 49 thousand and change. I normally fast forward through the opening credits so as not to see any preview scenes. But I was curious when the Pegasus showed up if the count went up so I rewound to check the count. I didn't save the episodes so I can't go back and confirm but I'm pretty sure the count went up.


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## J4yDubs (Jul 3, 2002)

Just listened to the podcast for the episode. Still disappoint for the reasons already stated. To many "it just happens" outs. Oh well, I'll have to trust them. They've done great so far.

One thing I thought was funny is that Ron agrees that Secret Identity Six was the wrong way to go. He actually thought that changing her hair and adding glasses would make her look different enough to not be noticed (recognized as a spylon). Now that he's seen it, he knows it doesn't work, but it was already filmed that way.

John


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

one cautionary note about the commentary is that it might contain spoilers...not necessarily "here's what's going to happen", but he does say stuff that some here would scream bloody murder about... 

when he was commenting on how to remove the cancer, Baltar showed a picture with blood in it, and one picture that is blank. So one has cancer, the other one doesn't...that's as techie as we're going to be, Ron says... 

while I appreciate that he wants to concentrate on the drama and not the technical stuff, it sounds lazy and cheap to me...you can concentrate on the drama but still do a little research, hire a consultant, and give us something plausible...have a plan... 

I love this show, but the more I listen to the commentary, the less I think of it (the show)...


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

Anubys said:


> while I appreciate that he wants to concentrate on the drama and not the technical stuff, it sounds lazy and cheap to me...you can concentrate on the drama but still do a little research, hire a consultant, and give us something plausible...have a plan...


I say this out of friendly concern. Are you sure it's not just that your expectations are set too high? 

Seriously... most of us love the show and don't feel the need for a technical explanation for every minor thing. That's why we have Star Trek, where everything gets explained with Tachyon Pulses, a Quantum Flux, a buffer problem with the transporter, a breakdown in the holoemitters, and the everbreaking Warp Core. The point of Galactica is that it's not about the science in science fiction. It's about the fiction, the people, their lives, their flaws, and their drama (internal and external).

It's just a TV show. It's not that big of a deal. Sit back, relax, and enjoy yourself.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I totally agree...I love BSG and I rank it up there with B5...it's the drama, the people, the humanity of it all...that's what I like (that's why Blade Runner is my all time favorite movie)...

This show makes you feel as part of the action...the people are so real...they act as normal people would...you believe it...you believe that you're THERE with them...that's what makes it so good...

But...when you're watching, you don't want to be jarred back to reality by things that just don't make sense (networking the galactica computers, Boomer sticking a fiber optic line in her arm...etc.)...you're immersed in this fiction and you don't want to be thinking "wait a fraking minute...that makes no sense"...

it's distracting...and I think the writers are just being lazy...



Skittles said:


> It's just a TV show. It's not that big of a deal. Sit back, relax, and enjoy yourself.


are you nuts?...this is not JUST a TV show...it's BSG...it's a BFD !


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Skittles said:


> Seriously... most of us love the show and don't feel the need for a technical explanation for every minor thing. That's why we have Star Trek, where everything gets explained with Tachyon Pulses, a Quantum Flux, a buffer problem with the transporter, a breakdown in the holoemitters, and the everbreaking Warp Core. The point of Galactica is that it's not about the science in science fiction. It's about the fiction, the people, their lives, their flaws, and their drama (internal and external).


No, they're being lazy. They don't have to be technically accurate within todays worldview. They just need something reasonably plausible rather than something that's just stupidity multiplied. They didn't have to show much of anything, and dialog could've gone something like "well, it's just too technical, but simply speaking it amounts to injecting some of the fetal blood into the President." Then they could stay focused on the drama without resorting to showing bad science.

And Star Trek explains everything by reversing the polarity of something.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

Anubys said:


> while I appreciate that he wants to concentrate on the drama and not the technical stuff, it sounds lazy and cheap to me...you can concentrate on the drama but still do a little research, hire a consultant, and give us something plausible...have a plan...


But... but... the beginning of the show says they _do_ have a plan.


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## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

not so sure baltar was choking himself. I remember six grabbing his tie first, then he raises his hand to grab the tie as if to keep her from *really* choking him, as if he's trying to pull the tie back, which would be a somewhat natural reaction


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## ccooperev (Apr 24, 2001)

speedcouch said:


> What did bother me was Helo went from being on death row to threatening to pull a gun on Adama when they were taking Sharon in for the abortion. I mean, forgiving he and the Chief and letting them go back to their jobs is one thing, but Helo's actions in this case should've been enough for Adama to throw him in the brig forever as a repeat offender. That's the only part of the plot that seemed unbeliever to me.
> 
> Cheryl


So what you're saying is that Helo was completely wrong in defending the mother of his child in both cases? Are you saying that Sharon the Cylon is not a sentient being, capable of making rational choices and should be treated like a toaster?

Also, I think Admiral Adama runs things a bit differently than the late Admiral Caine. He recognizes that every able bodied person is needed, military protocol be damned.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

ccooperev said:


> So what you're saying is that Helo was completely wrong in defending the mother of his child in both cases? Are you saying that Sharon the Cylon is not a sentient being, capable of making rational choices and should be treated like a toaster?
> 
> Also, I think Admiral Adama runs things a bit differently than the late Admiral Caine. He recognizes that every able bodied person is needed, military protocol be damned.


And perhaps more to the point, Adama is one of the FEW people on this show who can see the breathtakingly obvious point that the Spylons are NOT "machines" in any rational sense of the word.


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## SparkleMotion (Feb 2, 2004)

chavez said:


> not so sure baltar was choking himself. I remember six grabbing his tie first, then he raises his hand to grab the tie as if to keep her from *really* choking him, as if he's trying to pull the tie back, which would be a somewhat natural reaction


He was, indeed, choking himself and they took great pains to illustrate that by, upon revealing others staring at him, that Six was not visible to anyone else in the least.

For the physical interaction between him and mental-Six, ALL the blanks have to be filled in by Gaius...some of which we see (he's strangling himself) some of which we do not (she hands him the letter). But rest assured, he's ALWAYS doing it himself. There is no other way for the concept to be properly executed.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

I like how they dance him in and out of these illusions, personally.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

SparkleMotion said:


> He was, indeed, choking himself and they took great pains to illustrate that by, upon revealing others staring at him, that Six was not visible to anyone else in the least.


Whether he really was or not, I think the point of that part of the scene was that it *looked* to crewmen looking on that he *was* since they couldn't see Six.


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

Human blood: Hexagonal
Cylon Blood: Octagonal

-Dr. Cottle

Hey, I have an idea for a Cylon detector!


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

throughout the scenes when he is talking to Six, people around him avert their eyes (as you would around a crazy person) or simply stare in disbelief...it's very very well done...


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

5thcrewman said:


> Human blood: Hexagonal
> Cylon Blood: Octagonal


Actually, it's "Human/Cylon hybrid baby blood: Octagonal". There's no information proving that pure Cylon blood is Octagonal.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Skittles said:


> Actually, it's "Human/Cylon hybrid baby blood: Octagonal". There's no information proving that pure Cylon blood is Octagonal.


technically true, but we know that human and cylon blood is nearly identical (unless you run it through the cylon detector)...so it can't be the different shape...


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

Skittles said:


> Actually, it's "Human/Cylon hybrid baby blood: Octagonal". There's no information proving that pure Cylon blood is Octagonal.


Actually my interpretation of his scribbling was that the baby's blood has both hex- and oct- blood elements (or a hybrid shape?), while the cylons only have the octagonal type.

Of course the shapes are probably just a metaphor rather than a literal visible structure. Otherwise, as has been pointed out, it would be far easier to detect a Cylon...


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

I was hoping that now that we have Gina we would see less of the imaginary Six. I'm getting tired of the scenes with Baltar talking to himself in public. He even hited that she hasn't shown herself to him in a while.


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## LlamaLarry (Apr 30, 2003)

Did Pegasus not have a Doc Cottle type that could have experimented on their Six? Seems to me that if you've got a Spylon of your very own and a military that considers it a machine that disassembly would have been in order.

But then you'd have to resort to beating and raping your own I guess.

For that matter, now that they have Sharon I am surprised that more strides have not been made towards a faster method than Baltar's. Hell, has anyone even asked her how to tell them apart?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

LlamaLarry said:


> Did Pegasus not have a Doc Cottle type that could have experimented on their Six? Seems to me that if you've got a Spylon of your very own and a military that considers it a machine that disassembly would have been in order.


they did...he was using a special probe to "test" her!


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

LlamaLarry said:


> Did Pegasus not have a Doc Cottle type that could have experimented on their Six?


That's a good point. We never saw a doctor from the Pegasus, did we?


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## LlamaLarry (Apr 30, 2003)

Ah, that might explain where they went wrong, you may have to use digital manipulation first to ensure proper probe response.


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## xmajic (Nov 27, 2001)

PJO1966 said:


> That's a good point. We never saw a doctor from the Pegasus, did we?


Apparently, they don't have anyone with Baltar's level of thinking (crazy or not). Maybe that's why they've just resorted to beating Gina to a pulp. JMHO.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

xmajic said:


> Apparently, they don't have anyone with Baltar's level of thinking (crazy or not). Maybe that's why they've just resorted to beating Gina to a pulp. JMHO.


I was referring to a medical doctor, like Cottle.


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

I suspect that, like Galactica, Pegasus only had medics on board at the time of the attack. From the sound of things, their original Civilian fleet (before Caine destroyed it) was much smaller than the one following Galactica.

Galactica got lucky with Cottle. He wasn't assigned to Galactica in the first place, he just happened to be in the civilian fleet and was drafted into service.


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## Zen98031 (Sep 29, 2005)

Skittles said:


> Galactica got lucky with Cottle. He wasn't assigned to Galactica in the first place, he just happened to be in the civilian fleet and was drafted into service.


Really?, I thought he was their doctor. Suppose I could have missed it. They sure seemed surprised that the aeronautical guy got pressed into service as the Deck Chief on the Pegasus.

Mitch


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

Zen98031 said:


> Really?, I thought he was their doctor. Suppose I could have missed it. They sure seemed surprised that the aeronautical guy got pressed into service as the Deck Chief on the Pegasus.
> 
> Mitch


Cottle was culled from Colonials.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Cottle was culled from Colonials.


While Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers...


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

Skittles said:


> I suspect that, like Galactica, Pegasus only had medics on board at the time of the attack. From the sound of things, their original Civilian fleet (before Caine destroyed it) was much smaller than the one following Galactica.
> 
> Galactica got lucky with Cottle. He wasn't assigned to Galactica in the first place, he just happened to be in the civilian fleet and was drafted into service.


I'm not up on naval regs or anything, but I just don't see how a military ship the size of a battlestar could _not_ have a doctor assigned to it? Even in peace-time, soldiers have accidents, not to mention routine health care while on long space deployments. And remember, these are their biggest ships; if anyone would have a doc on board, it would be them.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

dcheesi said:


> I'm not up on naval regs or anything, but I just don't see how a military ship the size of a battlestar could _not_ have a doctor assigned to it? Even in peace-time, soldiers have accidents, not to mention routine health care while on long space deployments. And remember, these are their biggest ships; if anyone would have a doc on board, it would be them.


But Galactica was being decommissioned, and Pegasus was in drydock.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But Galactica was being decommissioned, and Pegasus was in drydock.


it had pilots and crew (albeit skeleton)...it should have had a couple of doctors...


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

IIRC Bones always beamed or (mostly) shuttled back to the big 'E' right before it left spacedock. I'm just sayin'...


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## JerryLBell (May 3, 2002)

Dmtalon said:


> Battlestar Galactica needs to be on Network TV or Universal HD no later than a week behind the current season in HD. I'm increasingly dissatisfied with the quality of the broadcast on Sci Fi. LOVE the show, HATE the broadcast.


You couldn't be more right! Friday night is an all-SciFi affair with the wife and I and we HATE blowing up 4:3 letterbox to 16:9! It's even worse in that the local cable affiliate runs SciFi strictly as an analog tier offering, and it's among the 10 worst-looking channels in the analog tier (unfortunately, National Geographic is even worse). I'm not willing to pay extra for the HD collection of channels Time Warner offers us (HD-Net, HD-Net Movies, IN-HD, IN-HD2 and ESPN-HD) as the only regular shows they seem to run are up-converted "Hogan's Heroes" and "Charlies Angels". Now, if they had a SciFi-HD chanel or if Universal offered BSG, Stargate: SG1 and Stargate: Atlantis in HD, I would certainly consider paying a few bucks extra! Especially if they also ran classic SciFi movies in HD (2001, Blade Runner, Star Wars, Star Trek, Matrix, etc., etc.).


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

JerryLBell said:


> You couldn't be more right! Friday night is an all-SciFi affair with the wife and I and we HATE blowing up 4:3 letterbox to 16:9!


I find that it actually looks better if you _don't_ blow it up, assuming you can tolerate the bars on all sides. It's kind of like a photograph; the more you blow up a low-res original, the uglier it gets...


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Anubys said:


> it had pilots and crew (albeit skeleton)...it should have had a couple of doctors...


Galactica might still have had some med staff, but it could have been reduced to just medics since it was the final days before decommission and switch from warship to museum.

Pegasus should have still had a full medical staff however (possibly minus a few open slots due to replacement being low priority during a long refit). However, its possible that much of the crew could have been on shore leave when the Cylons attacked. So who knows how much of the medical department was onboard when they made the emergency blind jump.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

And not only were both ships in a position to have reduced medical staff when they left Caprica, but consider all the casualties since then. They might have lost medics, as well.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

IndyJones1023 said:


> And not only were both ships in a position to have reduced medical staff when they left Caprica, but consider all the casualties since then. They might have lost medics, as well.


You're wrong. Here are the FACTS:

1. Galactica has 1 doctor and 13 medics. All have survived. One was injured but recovered. 
2. Pegasus has 4 doctors, 1 surgeon. and 28 medics. None have even been injured.

those are FACTS, buster. I will now accept your apology.

did he fall for it? please? oh please fall for it...


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## LlamaLarry (Apr 30, 2003)

I'm still kinda hung up on how Pegasus and her crew were still able to fight the Cylons. Even if "we" know the Colonials were all disabled in the initial fights as a result of a backdoor, do Pegasus and Galactica know? 

All along I was still under the impression that it was "new tech", specifically networks, that was the problem and that Galatica and her birds were generally secure because they were "old school". As soon as Pegasus and Cain started going on about all their successful raids I've been waiting for *anyone* to ask, "How the frak did you do that? Everyone else is dead in the water as soon as the Knight Rider lamps come on."


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

Anubys said:


> You're wrong. Here are the FACTS:
> 
> 1. Galactica has 1 doctor and 13 medics. All have survived. One was injured but recovered.
> 2. Pegasus has 4 doctors, 1 surgeon. and 28 medics. None have even been injured.
> ...


I need to see these facts backed up by paper evidence. With the corners cut off.


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## JustAllie (Jan 5, 2002)

IndyJones1023 said:


> I need to see these facts backed up by paper evidence. With the corners cut off.


 :up: Good one, Indy!


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

JustAllie said:


> :up: Good one, Indy!


the terms of your probation preclude you from making such comments. This is your final warning.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

IndyJones1023 said:


> I need to see these facts backed up by paper evidence. With the corners cut off.


I don't know...cutting corners always leads to problems down the road...let's try to be thorough...


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

LlamaLarry said:


> I'm still kinda hung up on how Pegasus and her crew were still able to fight the Cylons. Even if "we" know the Colonials were all disabled in the initial fights as a result of a backdoor, do Pegasus and Galactica know?


Yes. Baltar "discovered" the backdoor in his navigation code (early in season 1), and they removed it from all the computers in the fleet. And Pegasus was still in the process of 'upgrading' to the new software when the attack hit, so few (if any) of their systems were affected.


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## JustAllie (Jan 5, 2002)

Anubys said:


> the terms of your probation preclude you from making such comments. This is your final warning.


Hey, I was put on probation in an Atlantis thread, not a BSG thread. Nobody said it was a whole Sci-Fi Friday thing!


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

ccooperev said:


> So what you're saying is that Helo was completely wrong in defending the mother of his child in both cases?


Not in the case where she was about to be raped, which resulted in an accidental death. There was no need for that type of action to simply interogate a prisoner. But to threaten to draw down on his Commander over the abortion issue, yes, I definitely think he was wrong. Adama made it clear he was acting on the President's instructions. Had Helo actually pulled the gun on Adama, I think he should've been disciplined in some way; maybe not throwing him in the brig forever, but something (court-marshalled, reduced in rank, etc.) Certainly not the death sentence, but not just the stern look he got from Adama. That really taught him a lesson, didn't it?



ccooperev said:


> Are you saying that Sharon the Cylon is not a sentient being, capable of making rational choices and should be treated like a toaster?


No, I agree she is sentient; however, she is a prisoner of the state, and if Roslyn believes her child being born represents a threat to the humans, I feel she was well within her right to order the abortion. Helo was trying to prevent them carrying out Presidential orders, so that's a big deal. Not enough to kill him over, but still insubordination of sorts. It's not the chain of command's problem that he has a personal relationship with the prisoner.

BTW, my job involves dealing with progressive discipline for conduct issues among employees, so obviously I have strong feelings about this stuff, especially where insubordination to a supervisor is involved.

Cheryl


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Just a note for tonight's episode. (I thought it was too early to start that thread.)

The podcast is already out, and I listened to the first few minutes.

I found it interesting...Moore's opinion of the show... (opinion of the episode, NO plot spoilers, so it's safe to read. Just being cautious)


Spoiler



He does not like the episode. He doesn't think it works, doesn't meet the standards of the show, and he makes sure to point out that it is his own fault.


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## emandbri (Jul 5, 2004)

hefe said:


> Just a note for tonight's episode. (I thought it was too early to start that thread.)
> 
> The podcast is already out, and I listened to the first few minutes.
> 
> ...


I'm sure I'll still love it!


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## ccooperev (Apr 24, 2001)

ccooperev said:


> Originally Posted by ccooperev
> So what you're saying is that Helo was completely wrong in defending the mother of his child in both cases?





speedcouch said:


> Not in the case where she was about to be raped, which resulted in an accidental death. There was no need for that type of action to simply interogate a prisoner. But to threaten to draw down on his Commander over the abortion issue, yes, I definitely think he was wrong. Adama made it clear he was acting on the President's instructions. Had Helo actually pulled the gun on Adama, I think he should've been disciplined in some way; maybe not throwing him in the brig forever, but something (court-marshalled, reduced in rank, etc.) Certainly not the death sentence, but not just the stern look he got from Adama. That really taught him a lesson, didn't it?


As a matter of military discipline, Helo was certainly skirting with trouble. But here's the rub. I'll explain my thinking in the next section below...



ccooperev said:


> Originally Posted by ccooperev
> Are you saying that Sharon the Cylon is not a sentient being, capable of making rational choices and should be treated like a toaster?





speedcouch said:


> No, I agree she is sentient; however, she is a prisoner of the state, and if Roslyn believes her child being born represents a threat to the humans, I feel she was well within her right to order the abortion. Helo was trying to prevent them carrying out Presidential orders, so that's a big deal. Not enough to kill him over, but still insubordination of sorts. It's not the chain of command's problem that he has a personal relationship with the prisoner.
> 
> BTW, my job involves dealing with progressive discipline for conduct issues among employees, so obviously I have strong feelings about this stuff, especially where insubordination to a supervisor is involved.
> 
> Cheryl


I preface these remarks by saying I am not nor have I ever been a soldier. The closest I've been is being a military brat. -- The son of a decorated military officer. Having grown up in a military family and being familiar with military culture, I feel I can speak a bit towards the subject of chain of command, military discipline etc.

The culture of the colonials bears a striking resemblance to American or Canadian culture. In that culture which I think creates unique advantages is that there is an expectation that you are to think for yourself and that there are no permanent classes. In the United States A billionaire can become a pauper overnight (E. Howard Hunt et. al) and a pauper can become wealthy and powerful based on both their abilities and fortune (luck). Much of this culture was borne of the American Revolution which threw off the European status quo of immutable classes (Nobles/Commoners) etc.

The American ability to succeed in war, commerce, sports, and cultural domination is I believe because of the creativity borne of intellectual and cultural freedom.

So, what is interesting about the confrontation between Helo and Adama is that Adama has chosen to lead in a very different fashion than that of the late Admiral Caine. Adama chose not to react in the same way Caine might have (execute Helo on the spot) because he sees his command as a family. As such, the loyalty engendered to him is out of respect and love and NOT fear. Which is why Helo stood down and Adama didn't punish him.

Helo I believe was acting on his moral imperative to protect his "family". In the American context, this is a right upheld by several Treaties that the US is a signatory to and legally and morally bound to follow. In the American context, a soldier is legally allowed to disobey a direct command from a superior authority if it is in direct contravention of that soldier's oath to protect, preserve and defend the Constitution of the United States which would include its treaty obligations. So, in the inflammatory rhetoric of those that would give legal rights to fetuses, Helo was merely protecting his family from the overreaching of the State. To do this requires the soldier to have some ability to think. This of course is in direct contradiction to traditional military order and discipline where soldiers are drilled not to think. But, again, what does make our military work is the ability for field commanders to be creative in accomplishing their missions.

Of course, BSG is all make believe so your mileage may vary... 

I'm also interested in your comments about your job responsibilities. Can you shed some light on the kinds of problems you face? Is this a Union protocol you're dealing with or what?


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