# Game of Thrones S6E4 5/15/16 "Book of the Stranger"



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Now that's how you end an episode.

And so it begins...


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## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

Awesome, awesome, awesome episode. So waiting for what comes next! I'm also liking that we are ahead of the books...it's nice not knowing what's coming next.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Although I love love love almost everything about this season, now that they've mostly moved beyond the books, one thing that's bugging me a little is that they seem to have a lot less sense than Martin does of how vast Westeros is, and how long it takes to get from one place to another. E.g., the trips people are casually taking from Winterfell to Castle Black, seemingly with no time passing. That's a journey that should take weeks...

Nice to see things coming together. I wasn't expecting Jon and Sansa to reunite so quickly (I figured they'd keep missing each other for a while), and now they're raising an army. Dany just acquired an army of her own (well, a horde); I have a feeling they will make a little trip to Slaver Bay (which will take far too short a time ) and put a rapid end to that storyline before she sets her sights again on Westeros.

And now Dany has, what, three of the coolest endings in GoT history?


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## ACoolDude (Dec 11, 2001)

Meh, Carrie did the same thing is the '70s 




/Joking, that was awesome. "You're not going to serve, you are going to die." :up:


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I enjoyed it, but I found it kind of predictable once Dany went into the chamber. 

Also I thought about the timing of how long it should take to travel around and I never found GoT to be that accurate with travel times. I just assumed that what we see when switching back and forth between different areas isn't happening in real time (I.e. what happened at the Wall may have been happening before Sansa escaped).


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

So long Tonks. 

Apparently, there's gonna be lots going on.

Tyrell army in King's Landing fighting the Faith Militant. Knights Of The Vale marching on Winterfell while Jon + Sansa + wildlings try to do the same. 

Meanwhile, Dani has the Dothraki horde + Unsullied + Dragons + ships from somewhere (cough, Ironborn) headed for Westeros.

Then, of course, there's that whole gigantic army of wights + white walkers north of the wall.

What I'm wondering at this point is what does this leave for Arya to do? The obvious trope would be that she has to kill someone she doesn't want to kill, so I hope it's something different and better than that.

Also, what does this leave for Sam to do? Open question for now, I guess.

And, the biggie, what does this leave for Bran to do?

As for Rickon, he's either screwed or the ultimate winner. I haven't decided which.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

heySkippy said:


> And, the biggie, what does this leave for Bran to do?


Well, in the short term he gets to reveal Jon's parentage to us. 

In the long term, he gets to rule Winterfell? With the support of King Jon and Queen Dany?


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

morac said:


> I enjoyed it, but I found it kind of predictable once Dany went into the chamber.


The only part that surprised me was I expected it to end with a single word, and not Dany overturning the flames.

_*Dracarys*_.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

At least we now know what happened to Charlie McGee.

http://static.srcdn.com/slir/w560-h332-q90-c560:332/wp-content/uploads/Firestarter-reboot.jpg


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

morac said:


> Also I thought about the timing of how long it should take to travel around and I never found GoT to be that accurate with travel times. I just assumed that what we see when switching back and forth between different areas isn't happening in real time (I.e. what happened at the Wall may have been happening before Sansa escaped).


That's how I see things. They want to keep us engaged with all of the stories, and so don't necessarily show them to us in chronological order. For all we know, Bran could have seen the visions that we've been shown at the same time as the events of Season 5 were happening, but HBO didn't want to hire those actors just for a few bits, and instead waited until this season when they would have a bigger role. Order of events only matters within a particular location and when a location receives messages regarding another. That's my Theory of Game of Thrones Relativity anyway.

Even if Jon Snow was killed around the same time as when Sansa escaped, we don't know how long it was until his killers were hanged. We also don't know how long it was from that time until Sansa arrived. And we don't know how long the time was from when Sansa arrived to when the messenger from Winterfell did.


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

.dot


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

BitbyBlit said:


> That's how I see things. They want to keep us engaged with all of the stories, and so don't necessarily show them to us in chronological order. For all we know, Bran could have seen the visions that we've been shown at the same time as the events of Season 5 were happening, but HBO didn't want to hire those actors just for a few bits, and instead waited until this season when they would have a bigger role. Order of events only matters within a particular location and when a location receives messages regarding another. That's my Theory of Game of Thrones Relativity anyway.
> 
> Even if Jon Snow was killed around the same time as when Sansa escaped, we don't know how long it was until his killers were hanged. We also don't know how long it was from that time until Sansa arrived. And we don't know how long the time was from when Sansa arrived to when the messenger from Winterfell did.


Agreed. Unless the plot explicitly tells us otherwise, whenever we check in on certain people or locations, I assume several weeks have passed since the last time we saw them.

Excellent episode. Glad to see that the upcoming battles are starting to take shape. Hopefully the Faith Militant will fall soon as I don't need to see any more of that storyline. I also hope Dany and Tyrion and the others finish off the Slaver's Bay storyline quickly. Then we can focus on the real issues in the north of Westeros.

So Theon is pledging his support for Yara. Do we know yet whether the Kingsmoot is considering Euron as well? Or do the Ironborn not even realize he's in the mix yet?

Glad to finally see Littlefinger. He really took command of that situation and used it to his advantage. Man, that Robin is such a little *****.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Even I bowed down before Danerys after that ending and I'm not even a GoT character.

Looks like a lot of good stuff is going to happen soon. Hopefully the Faith Militant and Ramsay get got very soon.


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

I thought Dani wasn't getting her kit off anymore. Nice way to show that's not correct.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Mr. Soze said:


> I thought Dani wasn't getting her kit off anymore. Nice way to show that's not correct.


It wouldn't surprise me if they CGI'd her head on top of some other woman's nekkid body.

Before the last Khal got crispy, I wonder if he thought "Maybe I should have chosen my words more judiciously"

Brienne was awesome.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> It wouldn't surprise me if they CGI'd her head on top of some other woman's nekkid body.
> 
> Before the last Khal got crispy, I wonder if he thought "Maybe I should have chosen my words more judiciously"
> 
> Brienne was awesome.


Emilia Clarke says she was indeed nude.
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/15/game-thrones-emilia-clarke-dany


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

She didn't need to live through that inferno for me to worship her forever.

Tormund's lust for Brienne and her confused look were priceless.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> Tormund's lust for Brienne and her confused look were priceless.


Not to mention Dolorous Edd's almost-amusement.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Gunnyman said:


> Emilia Clarke says she was indeed nude.
> http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/15/game-thrones-emilia-clarke-dany


I thank her very much.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Not to mention Dolorous Edd's almost-amusement.


I'm thinking Tormund's tryst with the bear will seem like a walk in the park pretty soon


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

I'm VARY glad I have a "pause" button! I got a phone call just before the big scene, and that's one thing I very definitely did not want to miss!! :up: :up:


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Man this episode could have easily been titled "Reunion". Jon/Sansa, Theon/Yara, Margaery/Loras, Brienne/Melisandre 

Too bad Brienne interrupted the conversation between Davos and Melisandre. Looks like she was about to confess about Shireen. Which woulda been suicide. Unless of course she has the power to revive herself...hmmm...

The actor who portrays Robin is so good at being awkward and wimpy. Littlefinger really has him wrapped around his...


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

BitbyBlit said:


> That's how I see things. They want to keep us engaged with all of the stories, and so don't necessarily show them to us in chronological order. For all we know, Bran could have seen the visions that we've been shown at the same time as the events of Season 5 were happening, but HBO didn't want to hire those actors just for a few bits, and instead waited until this season when they would have a bigger role. Order of events only matters within a particular location and when a location receives messages regarding another. That's my Theory of Game of Thrones Relativity anyway.
> 
> Even if Jon Snow was killed around the same time as when Sansa escaped, we don't know how long it was until his killers were hanged. We also don't know how long it was from that time until Sansa arrived. And we don't know how long the time was from when Sansa arrived to when the messenger from Winterfell did.


I think this is what is happening, but as a viewer, who's used to watching things chronologically, unless specified, it can be very confusing. I know it's not the way it's ever been done on GoT, but it wouldn't be bad if they just put "2 weeks earlier" if that's how they are doing it. Minor nitpick. I could live with them not doing it.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Anyone disappointed that we are not going to see Marjorie's walk of shame? 

Kudos to Dani. There are times you just can't take your eyes off of Emilia Clarke, and I'm not just talking about her being nude this week. There is a definite presence to her as an actress.


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

gossamer88 said:


> The actor who portrays Robin is so good at being awkward and wimpy. Littlefinger really has him wrapped around his...


I cannot un-see Peewee!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

gossamer88 said:


> Man this episode could have easily been titled "Reunion". Jon/Sansa, Theon/Yara, Margaery/Loras, Brienne/Melisandre


Don't forget Dany/Daario/Jorah.

And speaking of them, Daario now knows about Jorah's grayscale. It didn't seem to phase him at all.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Hopefully the Faith Militant will fall soon as I don't need to see any more of that storyline.


It will be interesting to see what happens here. On one hand, perhaps Cersei's love for her son and hatred for the Sparrows has pushed her to wanting to genuinely help the Tyrells. On the other hand, she could be setting them up for a conflict that she hopes will end the power of the Sparrows while doing serious damage to the Tyrell family. Or perhaps she still hasn't learned her lesson, and will actually join the Sparrows in "standing up" to the Tyrells, hoping that doing so will curry favor with them when it comes to her trial.

And of course, let's not forget about the Sands and their people:










Even if Cersei is playing things straight, they might try to set things up so that Margaery ends up dying, hoping that the Tyrells will blame the Lannisters.


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## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

Think back, this was really the best we've felt as viewers watching the show since it began. It was weird that nothing immediately ruined it.

Also, I am not sure why Brienne didn't kill the Red Witch on the spot?


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

nickels said:


> Think back, this was really the best we've felt as viewers watching the show since it began. It was weird that nothing immediately ruined it.


When Jon and Sansa embraced, I thought, "OK, they're doomed."


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

So much to love this episode. I didn't expect to see Sansa and Jon reunite this episode so I nearly screamed when the gates opened and it was her. Not going to even pretend I didn't get something in my eye when they hugged as well. 

Tyrion Tyrion. My face was the same as Missandei when he said 7 years to end slavery. In the overall picture of the hundreds/thousands of years it's been going on that isn't a long time but to someone like her and Grey Worm that's an eternity of nightmares. Ugh. I felt so bad for them both and I really hope Tyrion knows what he's doing. Or maybe it won't matter now that Dany is controlling the Dothraki. Good lord that entire scene. Someone said the way she commands her scenes and I agree. Clothes or not, you can't not appreciate this character and be in awe of how well played she is. I hope she's not too cross at Tyrion when she gets back though, eeep! 

Ramsay stabbing Osha though, damn I really didn't see that coming. I mean I wasn't shocked but I thought he'd toy with her a lot more than that giving who he is and the fact that he knows she's the reason Bran and Rickon were able to get out of Winterfell. His letter to Jon "come and see" ugh. Please die soon.

I liked how Olenna was like "that cannot happen" as if to tell Cercei that her granddaughter is much better than Cercei and will not be allowed that humiliation at any cost. Can't wait to see how this plays out. I really need Margaery and Lancel to come out alive though.

Brienne your timing! I wanted to see if the red witch was going to confess what she did to Davos' favorite person. However, the look on her face when Brienne talked about Renly and blood magic killing him was great. Her and Tormond though hahahaha and Edd's face watching them at dinner was such a nice moment of comedy. 

Okay I've gone as far as I can without saying Petyr's back!!! Why do I like this character so much, he's such a manipulative snake. Oh yeah there's the answer.  The way he waltzed in and took that entire situation and placed everywhere exactly where he wanted them. I really do think the end of this series he'll be one of the few remaining people alive. 

And last..... Jorah  that's all just


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

photoshopgrl said:


> His letter to Jon "come and see" ugh. Please die soon.


An interesting case of sowing the seeds of one's own destruction. Until then, Jon wasn't willing to ask the Wildlings for help, and might not have gotten it if he had. But with Ramsay threatening not only Rickon and Sansa but the Wildlings as well, that clinched the deal.

It will be interesting to see how well the Wildlings and the Northerners Jon recruits along the way get along. I suspect it will be better than expected...


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

photoshopgrl said:


> Okay I've gone as far as I can without saying Petyr's back!!! Why do I like this character so much, he's such a manipulative snake. Oh yeah there's the answer.  The way he waltzed in and took that entire situation and placed everywhere exactly where he wanted them. I really do think the end of this series he'll be one of the few remaining people alive.


One of my favorite quotes in GoT: "Littlefinger would see the realm burn if he could be king of the ashes."


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> An interesting case of sowing the seeds of one's own destruction. Until then, Jon wasn't willing to ask the Wildlings for help, and might not have gotten it if he had. But with Ramsay threatening not only Rickon and Sansa but the Wildlings as well, that clinched the deal.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how well the Wildlings and the Northerners Jon recruits along the way get along. I suspect it will be better than expected...


They did say that little less than half have not pledged to the Boltons. And it's not just Jon, it's also Sansa. And a rescue of Rikon. Then add the Vale and Mellisandre. Plus any defectors from Bolton once the Jon/Sansa duo comes knocking.

And who knows if Theon can convince his sister (if she wins the throne) to help.

I say it will be an even battle when all is said and done.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Anubys said:


> One of my favorite quotes in GoT: "Littlefinger would see the realm burn if he could be king of the ashes."


Wasn't it Varys that said this? It's true though.

Also can someone tell me how the Boltons have such a large army? Would all those men honestly continue to serve Ramsay the former bastard, knowing he killed his father (and let's face it they all must know unless they are completely daft)?? Seems he wouldn't have such a large threat at this point.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Ooooh...thought of another potential army to help Jon...I forget his name...the old man who betrayed Robb at the Red Wedding...he's not going to be happy that his daughter and grandson were fed to the dogs...

Old man Frey? is that him?


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

photoshopgrl said:


> Wasn't it Varys that said this? It's true though.
> 
> Also can someone tell me how the Boltons have such a large army? Would all those men honestly continue to serve Ramsay the former bastard, knowing he killed his father (and let's face it they all must know unless they are completely daft)?? Seems he wouldn't have such a large threat at this point.


Ummm, he was poisoned by his enemies!


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> Don't forget Dany/Daario/Jorah.
> 
> And speaking of them, Daario now knows about Jorah's grayscale. It didn't seem to phase him at all.


Ah yes, how did I miss that?!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

photoshopgrl said:


> Wasn't it Varys that said this? It's true though.
> 
> Also can someone tell me how the Boltons have such a large army? Would all those men honestly continue to serve Ramsay the former bastard, knowing he killed his father (and let's face it they all must know unless they are completely daft)?? Seems he wouldn't have such a large threat at this point.


In general, when lords play the game of thrones, those down the chain just go on their business as usual. The soldiers don't care that they have a new boss; they just go where they're told. (The classic example is that peasants don't care who they have to pay their taxes to.)

Unless the new boss is truly egregious in ways that affect them personally...which may well happen in this case.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Who was the guy that stood up to Petyr (until he was threatened with being moon doored)? All I could think of was Four Weddings and a Funeral (pretty sure that was him "He was head of my house. Buggered me senseless. Still, it taught me about life.")


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Anubys said:


> Ooooh...thought of another potential army to help Jon...I forget his name...the old man who betrayed Robb at the Red Wedding...he's not going to be happy that his daughter and grandson were fed to the dogs...
> 
> Old man Frey? is that him?


Does seem plausible. But I don't think Walder Frey wants to be near any Stark.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

I was amused by Tyrion and then Missandei repeating Petyr's words about only making peace with one's enemies, especially given that he said them shortly before betraying Ned. It would be funny if, after all of Petyr's efforts to take over the world, the only thing that ultimately survives of his legacy is a quote attributed to an anonymous wise man.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

wprager said:


> Who was the guy that stood up to Petyr (until he was threatened with being moon doored)? All I could think of was Four Weddings and a Funeral (pretty sure that was him "He was head of my house. Buggered me senseless. Still, it taught me about life.")


Lord Yohn Royce. He's been fostering Robin and teaching him to fight, although not very well it seems.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

photoshopgrl said:


> Tyrion Tyrion. My face was the same as Missandei when he said 7 years to end slavery. In the overall picture of the hundreds/thousands of years it's been going on that isn't a long time but to someone like her and Grey Worm that's an eternity of nightmares. Ugh. I felt so bad for them both and I really hope Tyrion knows what he's doing.


I suspect he has a plan. It could be a double-cross of the Masters once the Sons are dealt with, or it could be something like the carrot of showing everyone that Meereen can prosper without slavery (once the Sons are done), combined with the stick of helping to finance and incite revolt in the slaves of the other cities. Whatever it turns out to be, it is almost always good strategy to promise your adversary something far away (7 years) while in return getting something for yourself NOW. Tyrion is an excellent strategist.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Anubys said:


> One of my favorite quotes in GoT: "Littlefinger would see the realm burn if he could be king of the ashes."


Ah, but would Littlefinger see the realm freeze over if he could be King of the Ice?


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

john4200 said:


> I suspect he has a plan. It could be a double-cross of the Masters once the Sons are dealt with, or it could be something like the carrot of showing everyone that Meereen can prosper without slavery (once the Sons are done), combined with the stick of helping to finance and incite revolt in the slaves of the other cities. Whatever it turns out to be, it is almost always good strategy to promise your adversary something far away (7 years) while in return getting something for yourself NOW. *Tyrion is an excellent strategist.*


That he is. If it were a battle of wits on this show I would put the top duel Littlefinger vs Tyrion.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

On Tyrion....I think they set up what's going to happen there with his line from last week (or maybe 2 weeks ago) where he said something like things are decided by men in well appointed rooms (I know I botched this quote up terribly but I am too lazy to look it up). But the idea is that now he's making this decision on the fate of all these slaves as a rich man in a well appointed room, with complete lack of understanding the slaves plight OR understanding the slave owners' plight either. It's much bigger than him and he's just not in that loop. I think Tyrion just brought on heaps of trouble on himself, and I am guessing that his only way out of it is Dany returning. Remember, Dany struggled with this same decision, but she had the support of her armies. I don't think anyone there respects Tyrion.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Steveknj said:


> On Tyrion....I think they set up what's going to happen there with his line from last week (or maybe 2 weeks ago) where he said something like things are decided by men in well appointed rooms (I know I botched this quote up terribly but I am too lazy to look it up). But the idea is that now he's making this decision on the fate of all these slaves as a rich man in a well appointed room, with complete lack of understanding the slaves plight OR understanding the slave owners' plight either. It's much bigger than him and he's just not in that loop. I think Tyrion just brought on heaps of trouble on himself, and I am guessing that his only way out of it is Dany returning. Remember, Dany struggled with this same decision, but she had the support of her armies. I don't think anyone there respects Tyrion.


True but there have to be more there that respect him than back in Westeros at this moment. However I feel that Dany is going to come with the Dothraki and solve the problem before it gets to that, at least I hope. I'm ready to be done with the sons of the harpy story.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> True but there have to be more there that respect him than back in Westeros at this moment. However I feel that Dany is going to come with the Dothraki and solve the problem before it gets to that, at least I hope. I'm ready to be done with the sons of the harpy story.


He got no respect in Westeros, but he's not getting a lot of respect in Mereen either. I guess a little is better than none


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

photoshopgrl said:


> Ramsay stabbing Osha though, damn I really didn't see that coming. I mean I wasn't shocked but I thought he'd toy with her a lot more than that giving who he is and the fact that he knows she's the reason Bran and Rickon were able to get out of Winterfell.


I breathed a sigh of relief. I'm not ready to watch another series of torture scenes.



DevdogAZ said:


> And speaking of them, Daario now knows about Jorah's grayscale. It didn't seem to phase him at all.


I liked how they handled it. A lot went unsaid. "You know what that means?" "Yep.".


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> However I feel that Dany is going to come with the Dothraki and solve the problem before it gets to that, at least I hope.


Her general behavior has been to conquer and move on, so I'm not hopeful she will return and put and end to it. Though one of my favorite characters, she's probably the worst leader of the show.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I figured Tyrion was simply buying himself some time. Make peace for now and stop the Sons of the Harpy until they can gather their forces (or whatever) and figure out what to do without the constant terrorism.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Anubys said:


> I figured Tyrion was simply buying himself some time. Make peace for now and stop the Sons of the Harpy until they can gather their forces (or whatever) and figure out what to do without the constant terrorism.


If that were the case surely he would have let Missandei and Grey Worm in on it right?


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

photoshopgrl said:


> If that were the case surely he would have let Missandei and Grey Worm in on it right?


Not necessarily. Even if Tyrion does not suspect either of them of betrayal, I am sure he does not trust them not to speak to other people about it.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I figured Tyrion was simply buying himself some time.


Tyrion's approach seemed genuine and consistent with the political leader that he is. He's negotiated a compromise to avoid war. He doesn't know that Dany is going to incinerate the Dothraki leadership and suddenly be leader of a conquering horde. Who in their right mind, other than we viewers, would expect that? Even if she is does return with that horde, how long until she leaves with it to cross the sea?

Furthermore, one would assume that he intends his word to be good and isn't planning a double-cross that would undercut his future negotiating credibility. He seeks to govern, not conquer and occupy through force.

He worked the best deal that he could.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

smbaker said:


> Her general behavior has been to conquer and move on, so I'm not hopeful she will return and put and end to it. Though one of my favorite characters, she's probably the worst leader of the show.


Which is exactly what Martin intended with her. He said of Daenerys that conquest is easy, it's ruling that's hard to do.

It is why she needs Tyrion so much.


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## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

astrohip said:


> Now that's how you end an episode.
> 
> *And so it begins...*


I hope so. But my guess is she will get sidetracked again. Plus I wanted her to invade Westeros while Joffrey was still breathing.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

smbaker said:


> Furthermore, one would assume that he intends his word to be good and isn't planning a double-cross that would undercut his future negotiating credibility. He seeks to govern, not conquer and occupy through force.


His word was that he would give them seven years to end the practice (of slavery), rather than abolishing slavery immediately. He did not say that he would not campaign against slavery in the meantime. I think he could finance and help plan rebellion (much the same way that the Masters did with the Sons of the Harpy) or escape of slaves, without breaking his word.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Shaunnick said:


> It is why she needs Tyrion so much.


This is going to be a very difficult assignment for him. He's trying to put her previous conquests in order, while she is off making new conquests.

I just don't have a whole lot of faith that Dany takes that Dothraki horde back to slaver's bay like many people seem to be expecting her to. She'll get distracted with some new problem and go off to conquer someone else. I don't see them investing a whole lot of time in Tyrion's governing, if their solution will be for Dany to return with a horde at set everything right in just a few episodes.

Tyrion can keep running Mereen in her absence, but it forks off into a separate Tyrion story at that point. GoT does that a lot -- brings people together only to immediately send them apart, sometimes for a long while.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

If this were season 2 or 3 I might agree with you. But the show is nearing its end and needs to start wrapping things up and moving the pieces into place for the big conclusion. We just don't have time for another Dany sidetrack that will prevent her from reuniting with her dragons and beginning her move toward Westeros.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> If this were season 2 or 3 I might agree with you. But the show is nearing its end and needs to start wrapping things up and moving the pieces into place for the big conclusion. We just don't have time for another Dany sidetrack that will prevent her from reuniting with her dragons and beginning her move toward Westeros.


Wait. Is this the last season?! 

Even if the answer is "Yes", please lie to me!


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Anubys said:


> Wait. Is this the last season?!
> 
> Even if the answer is "Yes", please lie to me!


Once Season 6 (current) ends there is a 7 episode season 7, and a 6 episode season 8.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

zordude said:


> Once Season 6 (current) ends there is a 7 episode season 7, and a 6 episode season 8.


I don't think we know that for a fact. (I'm not always right but I've never been wrong.)

HBO bullied the showrunners into an eighth season, when they had originally said seven would wrap it up nicely.

Then in the last few weeks, the showrunners have said they think they could do the story right with about 15 more episodes (after this season). Most people took that to mean 7 or 8 next season, 7 or 8 the season after. There has even been talk it would be one long split season, ala Breaking Bad or Mad Men, which seems to have some effect on the contractual aspect. Regardless, the showrunners haven't made any detailed comments, beyond their initial statement.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

photoshopgrl said:


> Lord Yohn Royce. He's been fostering Robin and teaching him to fight, although not very well it seems.


Thank you. I was right. Rupert Vansittart played "George the Boor at The Boatman - Wedding One".


----------



## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

So, "Book of the Stranger". There was no book and no stranger. Did I watch the wrong episode?


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Anubys said:


> Wait. Is this the last season?!
> 
> Even if the answer is "Yes", please lie to me!


All the key players have been signed up for an additional ten years. The writers have said they'll stretch out the seasons until GRRM catches up with them. And they plan on airing the series finale episode the same day Book Seven is actually released.

Oh, and Drogon farts rainbows.

Happy?


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

markp99 said:


> So, "Book of the Stranger". There was no book and no stranger. Did I watch the wrong episode?


"...And one day you walked through a graveyard and realized it was all for nothing and set out on the path to righteousness. Book of the Stranger, verse 25."


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ... The soldiers don't care that they have a new boss; they just go where they're told. (The classic example is that peasants don't care who they have to pay their taxes to.)
> 
> Unless the new boss is truly egregious in ways that affect them personally...which may well happen in this case.


... but enough about the people voting for Trump ... 

Why has Jorah's grayscale not advanced beyond his forearm?


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

markp99 said:


> So, "Book of the Stranger". There was no book and no stranger. Did I watch the wrong episode?


Based on a book series by George R.R. Martin, but they are going ahead with story lines that are not yet in the books, so GRRM has become "a stranger".



Or it may be this:



> Its this conversation between Margaery Tyrell from which we derive the episodes title: Book of the Stranger. The Stranger is one of the pantheon of gods that comprise the Faith of the people of Westeros. There are seven: the Father, the Mother, the Maiden, the Crone, the Warrior, the Smith, and the Stranger. The last is a symbol of death, a god rarely spoken of, who is generally the least popular of the seven. That hes barely discussed in an episode with his name in it suggests, to me at least, that death is being hinted at. Something bad is coming, and its not winter.


----------



## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

john4200 said:


> "...And one day you walked through a graveyard and realized it was all for nothing and set out on the path to righteousness. Book of the Stranger, verse 25."


Ahh, that's it! thx


----------



## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

If you are in to fan theories, the latest one about Kings Landing/Faith Militant plot: 


Spoiler



The High Sparrow told Tommen that it was the Tyrell family that killed his brother, Joffrey, with the poison. Loras Tyrell is a captive and he must know what happened, and he is clearly weak. Tommen told his mom that info, now Cersei is setting up the Tyrell family to all get killed as well as taking out the Faith Militant in the process.



Hidden even though it is not a spoiler, it is just what some fans think might happen next.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

smbaker said:


> He doesn't know that Dany is going to incinerate the Dothraki leadership and suddenly be leader of a conquering horde. Who in their right mind, other than we viewers, would expect that? Even if she is does return with that horde, how long until she leaves with it to cross the sea?


If I remember correctly the Dothraki are not willing to even consider loading their horses on a ship and going anywhere. This could be a problem.


----------



## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> We just don't have time for another Dany sidetrack that will prevent her from reuniting with her dragons and beginning her move toward Westeros.


The show is all sidetracks. We've been waiting on those white walkers for years.

Slowest. Invasion. Ever.

This season we're now sidetracked into yet another Ramsey Bolton abduction, the need for two different armies to invade winterfell, some tiff between the kingdom and the high sparrow, war between the Lannisters and Dorn, and dothraki buildings not adhering to common sense fire codes.

Furthermore, other than Meereen housing two dragons (which Tyrion just released), the whole slaver's bay storyline doesn't seem central to anything. It's where you'd park Tyrion for a season or two if you'd worn out his welcome everywhere else, and didn't want to kill off a fan favorite before the end.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

smbaker said:


> The show is all sidetracks. We've been waiting on those white walkers for years.
> 
> Slowest. Invasion. Ever.
> 
> This season we're now sidetracked into yet another Ramsey Bolton abduction, the need for two different armies to invade winterfell, some tiff between the kingdom and the high sparrow, war between the Lannisters and Dorn, and dothraki buildings not adhering to common sense fire codes.


But most of those things are moving the story to its inevitable conclusion. Having Dany go off and conquer some other as-yet unseen city/region and then have to deal with the political challenges that come with trying to rule that new area, while still trying to deal with all the fallout from Slaver's Bay, just doesn't make any sense. People have been clamoring for Dany to get finished with the Meereen storyline from the moment it started, and having her get sidetracked with another conquest would just further postpone the conclusion of the Meereen story.



smbaker said:


> Furthermore, other than Meereen housing two dragons (which Tyrion just released), the whole slaver's bay storyline doesn't seem central to anything. It's where you'd park Tyrion for a season or two if you'd worn out his welcome everywhere else, and didn't want to kill off a fan favorite before the end.


Tyrion didn't release the dragons. They're still trapped in the basement of the pyramid. They're just not shackled any longer. And I agree the Slaver's Bay storyline isn't central to anything. That's why Dany needs to go back there, get it resolved ASAP, collect her dragons, and move on. NO MORE SIDETRACKS!!


----------



## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> NO MORE SIDETRACKS!!


I'm just tellin' it the way I see it, not necessarily the way I want it.

So Tyrion unshackled the dragons, but left them locked in a dungeon? That's seems kinda ... meh.


----------



## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

I'm thinking he dragons are free to leave if they want to. They (Tyrion & Varys) didn't close any doors when they left.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Tyrion didn't release the dragons. They're still trapped in the basement of the pyramid. They're just not shackled any longer.


I think they may be free. The entrance we saw, the one that Tyrion and Varys used, is the human entrance. I think there is a larger opening that the dragons would use. This may even be the same place she kept them when they were free to come and go, before she shackled them. So by Tyrion removing that incredibly hard-to-release pin, Rhaegal and Viserion are now free to come and go again.

Maybe.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

There's no way the dragons can fit through that tiny door at the top of the stairs that Tyrion and Varys came through. I've always assumed that there's some other larger door that allows them to get the dragons in and out, and I saw no evidence that this larger door was opened.


----------



## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

Loved the ending, BUT I don't really buy the Dothraki prostrating themselves in unison. It doesn't seem like that gesture would be part of their cultural vocabulary, given what we've seen of the way they live and how they conduct their ceremonies.


----------



## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> There's no way the dragons can fit through that tiny door at the top of the stairs that Tyrion and Varys came through. I've always assumed that there's some other larger door that allows them to get the dragons in and out, and I saw no evidence that this larger door was opened.


So then why, in your mind, did Tyrion even bother wth the shackles at all?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Dawghows said:


> So then why, in your mind, did Tyrion even bother wth the shackles at all?


No idea. Never thought about it. I guess if my assumption is right then Tyrion unshackled them as more of a symbolic gesture.

I guess I never assumed that he was setting them free, as that would definitely piss Dany off if she were to come back to Meereen and find both of her dragons gone.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

dcheesi said:


> Loved the ending, BUT I don't really buy the Dothraki prostrating themselves in unison. It doesn't seem like that gesture would be part of their cultural vocabulary, given what we've seen of the way they live and how they conduct their ceremonies.


I think you're probably right, but I think the bowing down is just the TV shorthand way of showing complete respect and submission without having to do much explaining of what's going on.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> There's no way the dragons can fit through that tiny door at the top of the stairs that Tyrion and Varys came through. I've always assumed that there's some other larger door that allows them to get the dragons in and out, and I saw no evidence that this larger door was opened.


Do we know there's a larger door? That it's not just an opening?



DevdogAZ said:


> I guess I never assumed that he was setting them free, as that would definitely piss Dany off if she were to come back to Meereen and find both of her dragons gone.


I always assumed he was letting them loose. Dany is still their mother. They'll come back to her eventually.

I figured he unshackled them so they could feed freely on the nation's toddlers.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Robin said:


> Do we know there's a larger door? That it's not just an opening? I always assumed he was letting them loose. Dany is still their mother. They'll come back to her eventually. I figured he unshackled them so they could feed freely on the nation's toddlers.


If there isn't a larger door, those dragons ain't never getting out alive.

Actually, I am pretty sure we saw Dany bring them in via a larger door.


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> If there isn't a larger door, those dragons ain't never getting out alive.
> 
> Actually, I am pretty sure we saw Dany bring them in via a larger door.


Look at the ruins of Harrenhall. The dragons could melt the rock and escape.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Robin said:


> Do we know there's a larger door? That it's not just an opening?


No large opening has been shown.

When Dany put them in the catacombs, it was through a similarly sized opening. They even had to go down some stairs after going through it(S04E10). When she put them in, a large stone was in front of the opening and was rolled away. No stone was shown when Tyrion went in and the dragons are much larger now.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

The dragons still might be able to squeeze through. They do not look like Chinese dragons (snakelike), but they still might be able to squeeze through small openings.


----------



## digip (Jul 6, 2002)

photoshopgrl said:


> If that were the case surely he would have let Missandei and Grey Worm in on it right?


Their obvious disgust/disagreement and Tyrions ability to control them helps sell the story to the slavers. Tyrion is buying peace and safety now, he's got to know Dany wont agree, but that he should be able to sell that to her when she returns. Then they will really deal with the Masters.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Chinese vs. Westerosi dragons? Am I in a Monty Python sketch?


----------



## digip (Jul 6, 2002)

Didn't the Mad King let the Lannister army in to the city, only to take over. Looks like Cersei is about to make the same mistake with the Tyrells.


----------



## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> No idea. Never thought about it. I guess if my assumption is right then Tyrion unshackled them as more of a symbolic gesture.
> 
> I guess I never assumed that he was setting them free, as that would definitely piss Dany off if she were to come back to Meereen and find both of her dragons gone.


Well, obviously I haven't seen anything you haven't, so only time will tell, but m not buying that. Makes no sense.


----------



## wedgecon (Dec 28, 2002)

nickels said:


> If you are in to fan theories, the latest one about Kings Landing/Faith Militant plot:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



The only problem with that theory is that Oleanna does not trust men with even the smallest of duties, she considers both her son and her grandson "Oafs" at best. She would never trust them with a secret. I think she carried out the plot herself with Littlefinger.


----------



## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

I just went back and watched the scene where Dany locked up the dragons (S4, E10). What Cherry Ghost said.


----------



## ct1 (Jun 27, 2003)

heySkippy said:


> Also, what does this leave for Sam to do? Open question for now, I guess.


I'm holding out hope that research into ancient literature will aid in the defeat of the Others.


----------



## markbox (May 3, 2004)

Great episode. I was surprised to see that Danni's hair did not burn off this time. And it's high time we see the Knights of the Vale in action.

Regarding the dragons. Didn't Tyrion tell a story of the dragons of Westeros becoming smaller and smaller because they refused to eat while chained and eventually dying off? I beleive his motive was to remove their chains so they would start eating. I also believe they are still caged in their lair.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Robin said:


> I breathed a sigh of relief. I'm not ready to watch another series of torture scenes.


Well, Ramsay could still do things with Osha's body, I'm just sayin'...


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> If there isn't a larger door, those dragons ain't never getting out alive.
> 
> Actually, I am pretty sure we saw Dany bring them in via a larger door.


I'm talking about the actual door vs doorway.

Like a garage: you have a human sized walk through door and then a car sized roll up door. I'm wondering whether the dragons' lair has the roll up door or if that opening is just open. That would explain why they were chained up AND imprisoned.

I think that's unlikely. I figure the large doorway does have a door, I'm asking whether we KNOW it does.



markbox said:


> Regarding the dragons. Didn't Tyrion tell a story of the dragons of Westeros becoming smaller and smaller because they refused to eat while chained and eventually dying off? I beleive his motive was to remove their chains so they would start eating. I also believe they are still caged in their lair.


Yes. I thought it was obvious that that was why he removed their chains.

I disagree that they're still caged, though. I think his point was about captivity, not the literal chains.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

heySkippy said:


> Look at the ruins of Harrenhall. The dragons could melt the rock and escape.


And we've seen them melt chains as well (when they were small and freed Danny). So I don't know why they didn't just melt their own chains.

I agree with Robin that it was about captivity, not shackles.

The Sons of the Harpy missed out on a golden opportunity. They should have killed the 2 dragons when they had the chance.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

I think:

Dragons are free and in the wind

Cersei is going to try to get rid of High Sparrow and daughter-in-law in one fell swoop. Mountain probably kills them both even though Old Lady Tyrell sees it coming a mile away.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I have not had time to re-watch this ep and it doesn't look like I will find time until this weekend...so here's my question:

Did Tommen ever tell his mom what the High Sparrow told him (the big secret)? if so, what was it? I'm drawing a complete blank on it...


----------



## BRiT wtfdotcom (Dec 17, 2015)

Anubys said:


> I have not had time to re-watch this ep and it doesn't look like I will find time until this weekend...so here's my question:
> 
> Did Tommen ever tell his mom what the High Sparrow told him (the big secret)? if so, what was it? I'm drawing a complete blank on it...


It seems like he was starting to tell him but then the show did a scene change and the viewers never heard exactly what it was. We can only assume what it was, based on what Cercie and the one hand man said in the next scene to Margarie's parents.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

BRiT wtfdotcom said:


> It seems like he was starting to tell him but then the show did a scene change and the viewers never heard exactly what it was. We can only assume what it was, based on what Cercie and the one hand man said in the next scene to Margarie's parents.


Hmm...I feel like there's something to read between the lines here that I'm completely oblivious to...I really need to watch this ep again!

I need to now go to the "things that annoy you" thread because I'm very annoyed when I miss something important


----------



## ct1 (Jun 27, 2003)

BRiT wtfdotcom said:


> It seems like he was starting to tell him but then the show did a scene change and the viewers never heard exactly what it was. We can only assume what it was, based on what Cercie and the one hand man said in the next scene to Margarie's parents.


Not parents -- I believe it was Margaery's grandmother Olenna Tyrell and Kevan Lannister, father of Lancel Lannister, one of the devout Sparrows.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

ct1 said:


> Not parents -- I believe it was Margaery's grandmother Olenna Tyrell and Kevan Lannister, father of Lancel Lannister, one of the devout Sparrows.


The one who had the affair with Cousin Cersei (Lancel, that is). How unlike her to sleep with such a distant relation...


----------



## ozzman73 (Nov 27, 2006)

It seems "Pocket Sand" doesn't work against the Dothraki


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

ozzman73 said:


> It seems "Pocket Sand" doesn't work against the Dothraki


That was too funny...in every movie, that's the trick that turns a whole fight around. It was funny how both actors reacted..."seriously, dude?"..."yeah, I know...it was stupid...please don't hurt me anymore"


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

wedgecon said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> The only problem with that theory is that Oleanna does not trust men with even the smallest of duties, she considers both her son and her grandson "Oafs" at best. She would never trust them with a secret. I think she carried out the plot herself with Littlefinger.


I agree with wedgecon: that would be a terrible mistake for the writers to make, having Oleanna confide in Loras about Joffrey. There's no way she would do something so foolish. Of course, he may have guessed or overheard or seen something, but she would never have told him about the plot.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Now I'm getting what everyone is hinting at. Are these actual spoilers or just speculations in the form of spoiler for some weird reason?

After thinking about it, I was starting to think that the secret was the walk of shame for the Queen...but now I'm not so sure.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

JYoung said:


> Well, Ramsay could still do things with Osha's body, I'm just sayin'...


Well, she did give him some new ideas.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Anubys said:


> Now I'm getting what everyone is hinting at. Are these actual spoilers or just speculations in the form of spoiler for some weird reason?
> 
> After thinking about it, I was starting to think that the secret was the walk of shame for the Queen...but now I'm not so sure.


That was pretty much it. In my opinion the High Sparrow is laying a trap. He told Tommen that this was a secret -- the best way to make sure he tells his "mommy". So a trap has been laid but, of course, both sides are likely underestimating the other so it could go either way.


----------



## nirisahn (Nov 19, 2005)

I must be oblivious. I still don't get what the secret is.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wprager said:


> That was pretty much it. In my opinion the High Sparrow is laying a trap. He told Tommen that this was a secret -- the best way to make sure he tells his "mommy". So a trap has been laid but, of course, both sides are likely underestimating the other so it could go either way.


Although Cersei has a long, storied history of seriously overestimating how smart she is, and the Sparrow doesn't seem to have that problem...


nirisahn said:


> I must be oblivious. I still don't get what the secret is.


Nobody does. That's the point. The people on the show are acting on information that we don't have yet.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

nirisahn said:


> I must be oblivious. I still don't get what the secret is.


I think it was what we were told: that the Queen is about to be forced to do the walk of atonement.

What I gather from the post commenting on all the spoilers (which seem to be speculation, as far as I can tell) is that the secret Tommen was told is that Olenna (and her family) are the ones that killed Joffrey.

If so, then Jamie and Cersei are laying a trap for the Tyrrells (boy, I'm sure that's not spelled right!) when they asked them to come into the city and kill the Sparrows.


----------



## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

Here is a fan theory on what the secret is:


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/4jjqi9

Basically what Anubis said.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Anubys said:


> Now I'm getting what everyone is hinting at. Are these actual spoilers or just speculations in the form of spoiler for some weird reason?


Just speculation. So I didn't bother to spoilerize my comments.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

digip said:


> Didn't the Mad King let the Lannister army in to the city, only to take over. Looks like Cersei is about to make the same mistake with the Tyrells.


The difference here is that the queen is a Tyrell.


----------



## JoeyJoJo (Sep 29, 2003)

I wasn't buying that Ramsay sent that letter. It didn't sound like him.

I mentioned it to a friend and she agreed. She then came back with what Petyr said to Robin about his present. 

"Come and see."


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

JoeyJoJo said:


> I wasn't buying that Ramsay sent that letter. It didn't sound like him.
> 
> I mentioned it to a friend and she agreed. She then came back with what Petyr said to Robin about his present.
> 
> "Come and see."


Who would it have come from? Maybe an informant within Winterfell? I assume that the seal on the letter authenticated it otherwise they would question it's origins as well. We can rule out anyone at the Wall since the letter contained news of Rickon.

I think it was legitimate and could quite possibly be the difference in writing styles between the show writers and GRRM that's showing through.


----------



## JoeyJoJo (Sep 29, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> Who would it have come from? Maybe an informant within Winterfell? I assume that the seal on the letter authenticated it otherwise they would question it's origins as well. We can rule out anyone at the Wall since the letter contained news of Rickon.
> 
> I think it was legitimate and could quite possibly be the difference in writing styles between the show writers and GRRM that's showing through.


Littlefinger shows up in the Vale, coming form gods knows where to talk the Lords of the Vale into attacking Winterfell.

At that same time, Jon Snow receives a goading letter that is designed to make him come running.

Also, I checked the closed captioning on the scene with Robin. The falcon is a gyrfalcon according to Littlefinger. In the show we haven't heard anything about this kind of falcon, but in real life, a gyrfalcon lives in the arctic.

Littlefinger has been traversing the North to get the lords to remove Ramsay from power. Bank on it.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

JoeyJoJo said:


> Littlefinger has been traversing the North to get the lords to remove Ramsay from power. Bank on it.


I doubt it. Last we saw Littlefinger he was in King's Landing. He couldn't travel around the North without alerting the Boltons to his movements. And that seems far too complicated of a plan for the show to explain. You have to remember that the show only has a few minutes per episode to devote to each storyline, so they can't really do anything too complex without a decent amount of setup and explanation for the audience. If Littlefinger were really manipulating half of Westeros into a war against the Boltons, I think we would have seen more of him so far this season.


----------



## JoeyJoJo (Sep 29, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I doubt it. Last we saw Littlefinger he was in King's Landing. He couldn't travel around the North without alerting the Boltons to his movements. And that seems far too complicated of a plan for the show to explain. You have to remember that the show only has a few minutes per episode to devote to each storyline, so they can't really do anything too complex without a decent amount of setup and explanation for the audience. If Littlefinger were really manipulating half of Westeros into a war against the Boltons, I think we would have seen more of him so far this season.


OK, even without meeting with any of the Lords of the North, he's managed to get Cersei pissed off at the Boltons about Sansa's marriage and have her promise him the Warden of the North position.

I'm sure he's been able to manipulate more support than just the Vale.


----------



## markbox (May 3, 2004)

Robin said:


> I'm talking about the actual door vs doorway.
> 
> Like a garage: you have a human sized walk through door and then a car sized roll up door. I'm wondering whether the dragons' lair has the roll up door or if that opening is just open. That would explain why they were chained up AND imprisoned.
> 
> ...


You may be correct that Tyrion's story of why the dragons died out in Westeros was more related to dragons in captivity not eating then simply being chained. I'd have to go back and re-watch that episode or find a web site that has the scripts available for reading to refresh my memory.

Regarding the door, from memory, when the two dragons were placed in that underground room they were brought in through a large opening. After Danni put the chains on the dragons she left through that same large opening and they showed a large wheel shaped door being rolled over the opening to seal the room. As they have not showed that the underground room has been reopened I think the dragons are still captive. It would be unwise for Tyrion to completely free the dragons without Danni's consent.


----------



## markbox (May 3, 2004)

This is what I found in the script for season 4 episode 10 "The Children" regarding the captive dragons:

"The entrance to the catacombs is rolled open. Daenerys' dragons enter followed by Daenerys. Inside there is food for them. They chomp at the food as Daenerys puts a chain collar around their necks. She walks away crying as they screech at her. She turns around as the catacombs close with tears in her eyes."


----------



## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

markbox said:


> This is what I found in the script for season 4 episode 10 "The Children" regarding the captive dragons:
> 
> "The entrance to the catacombs is rolled open. Daenerys' dragons enter followed by Daenerys. Inside there is food for them. They chomp at the food as Daenerys puts a chain collar around their necks. She walks away crying as they screech at her. She turns around as the catacombs close with tears in her eyes."


At least two of us have already confirmed (having gone back and watched the episode where Dany chained them up) that she took the dragons into the chamber through the same entry that Tyrion and Varys used when Tyrion released them. We haven't seen that the dragons have left, but they are clearly no longer trapped.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

JoeyJoJo said:


> I wasn't buying that Ramsay sent that letter. It didn't sound like him.
> 
> I mentioned it to a friend and she agreed. She then came back with what Petyr said to Robin about his present.
> 
> "Come and see."


I watched the ep last night (thank you, rain for cancelling soccer practice!) and immediately noticed the "Come and see" from Pyter to Robin.

I thought it was strange that Pyter would take on the Boltons by himself (e.g. with only the Vale). He needs help and this is a good way to get it. He would then have Winterfell and Sansa to rule the North in addition to the Vale.

Of course, that means that Rickon has to die.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

JoeyJoJo said:


> I wasn't buying that Ramsay sent that letter. It didn't sound like him.
> 
> I mentioned it to a friend and she agreed. She then came back with what Petyr said to Robin about his present.
> 
> "Come and see."


Wow.

Letter from the Littlefinger with the flayed Bolton seal. Clever, and certainly easy enough to do. Surprised it doesn't happen more thinking how easy it would be.

I'm not sold yet, as Bolton certainly could have written that letter to goad Sansa/Jon into coming. Saves him a trip. And he's a whack job who obviously revels in causing pain and anguish to Starks.

But the Littlefinger angle makes sense. He's obviously been up to something all these weeks/months/Nintendo Minutes/whatever time chunks we use.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I did notice that Jon didn't need to break the seal but just slid it off the paper. I'm assuming that was just a mistake by the director/actor since it negates the purpose of the seal!


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

Maybe he doesn't like to operate in straight lines, but wouldn't it be simpler for Littlefinger to communicate with Jon directly? "I've got the Vale, you've got Wildings, we can both rally the North, so let's go get Winterfell back!"

Although I frankly forget where he left things with Sansa. I also forget it they have any idea of what he did to their dad. I'm not a book reader and the plot's a little much to follow!


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> Maybe he doesn't like to operate in straight lines, but wouldn't it be simpler for Littlefinger to communicate with Jon directly? "I've got the Vale, you've got Wildings, we can both rally the North, so let's go get Winterfell back!"
> 
> Although I frankly forget where he left things with Sansa. I also forget it they have any idea of what he did to their dad. I'm not a book reader and the plot's a little much to follow!


If it's all a plot by Pyter, then it makes sense that he would want Ramsey to have Rickon, the only remaining male heir to Winterfell. Once Rickon is dead, any boy fathered by Pyter through Sansa would be the heir and Pyter would rule Winterfell and the Vale simultaneously.

Which would mean that the Karstarks are part of the plot.


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

Anubys said:


> If it's all a plot by Pyter


Wasn't Pyter good friends with Rose?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

goblue97 said:


> Wasn't Pyter good friends with Rose?


You think you're soooooo funny...

...and you are


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> Maybe he doesn't like to operate in straight lines, but wouldn't it be simpler for Littlefinger to communicate with Jon directly? "I've got the Vale, you've got Wildings, we can both rally the North, so let's go get Winterfell back!"
> 
> Although I frankly forget where he left things with Sansa. I also forget it they have any idea of what he did to their dad. I'm not a book reader and the plot's a little much to follow!


Littlefinger's deal with Cersei was that he would come in and clean up after Stannis and the Boltons went to war. Tommen would then declare Littlefinger Warden of the North. With the Bolton route of Stannis, Littlefinger would need someone else to battle Ramsay before he moves in.

Sansa will not be happy with Littlefinger.

Personally, I don't think the letter came from Littlefinger. There was too much info in it that he would not know and he would have had to fake the messenger and the seal.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Anubys said:


> If it's all a plot by Pyter, then it makes sense that he would want Ramsey to have Rickon, the only remaining male heir to Winterfell. Once Rickon is dead, any boy fathered by Pyter through Sansa would be the heir and Pyter would rule Winterfell and the Vale simultaneously.
> 
> Which would mean that the Karstarks are part of the plot.


How would Littlefinger father a child through Sansa. No way she'd sleep with him, would she?


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

uncdrew said:


> How would Littlefinger father a child through Sansa. No way she'd sleep with him, would she?


Did you think she would sleep with Ramsay Bolton/Snow?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

uncdrew said:


> How would Littlefinger father a child through Sansa. No way she'd sleep with him, would she?


As a wise man once said about a certain Governor: Littlefinger uses his tongue prettier than a $10 whore.

I think Pyter can talk his way into almost anything; Sansa's pants included.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

goblue97 said:


> Did you think she would sleep with Ramsay Bolton/Snow?


No.

I still don't.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

What's with the alternate spelling (Pyter versus Petyr). I'm pretty sure it's intentional and not a typo (kinda like variations on spelling Merle in the TWD threads) but what is the back-story?


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

uncdrew said:


> No.
> 
> I still don't.


Spoiler alert

She did.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

wprager said:


> What's with the alternate spelling (Pyter versus Petyr). I'm pretty sure it's intentional and not a typo (kinda like variations on spelling Merle in the TWD threads) but what is the back-story?


I have no clue how to spell any of the names. So it's not intentional on my part.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

wprager said:


> What's with the alternate spelling (Pyter versus Petyr). I'm pretty sure it's intentional and not a typo (kinda like variations on spelling Merle in the TWD threads) but what is the back-story?


I think he's just confused about where the "y" goes in the word.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

cherry ghost said:


> Personally, I don't think the letter came from Littlefinger. There was too much info in it that he would not know and he would have had to fake the messenger and the seal.


Yes, and the distances would be quite large for Littlefinger to pull it off.

I agree, except for one thing. If it were Martin writing it, he would be very unlikely to come up with something like this that made so little sense. But I do not have that kind of confidence in the show writers now writing the story. They are probably quite capable of writing that kind of nonsense.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

As far as distance goes, we've seen Tywin (did I put the Y in the right place?) handle all negotiations without any difficulties via ravenmail. I see no reason why Littlefinger (I can spell that!) can't do the same.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Anubys said:


> As far as distance goes, we've seen Tywin ... handle all negotiations without any difficulties via ravenmail.


Nope.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

goblue97 said:


> Spoiler alert
> 
> She did.


Eewww.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

I think the letter was faked too.

It didn't sound like Ramsay one bit and he wouldn't do anything like he promised in the letter.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

How would Baelish know Rickon is at Winterfell or that Rickon's wolf is dead?


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

heySkippy said:


> How would Baelish know Rickon is at Winterfell or that Rickon's wolf is dead?


That's what I'm wondering too. The only thing that would make sense if if Littlefinger has a spy in Winterfell and they've filled Littlefinger in (via ravenmail) on events that have transpired there.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

john4200 said:


> If it were Martin writing it, he would be very unlikely to come up with something like this that made so little sense. But I do not have that kind of confidence in the show writers now writing the story. They are probably quite capable of writing that kind of nonsense.


Agreed


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

JYoung said:


> It didn't sound like Ramsay one bit and he wouldn't do anything like he promised in the letter.


He wasn't actually going to do what he said in the letter. It was obviously designed to provoke a response, to lure Jon into a trap.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Anubys said:


> I have no clue how to spell any of the names. So it's not intentional on my part.


Oh, so what is the "good friends with Rose wink-wink-nudge-nudge" reply all about?


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Plus someone referred to you as "Anubis" ('i' instead of 'y') so I thought it was all somehow connected.


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## markbox (May 3, 2004)

Anubys said:


> If it's all a plot by Pyter, then it makes sense that he would want Ramsey to have Rickon, the only remaining male heir to Winterfell. Once Rickon is dead, any boy fathered by Pyter through Sansa would be the heir and Pyter would rule Winterfell and the Vale simultaneously.
> 
> Which would mean that the Karstarks are part of the plot.


The heir to Winterfell is Bran who is the eldest non-bastard son of Ned Stark. Of course Ramsey may not know that Bran is still alive.


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## JoeyJoJo (Sep 29, 2003)

BrettStah said:


> That's what I'm wondering too. The only thing that would make sense if if Littlefinger has a spy in Winterfell and they've filled Littlefinger in (via ravenmail) on events that have transpired there.


If Littlefinger is plotting somehow with the Umbers, he would know.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

JoeyJoJo said:


> If Littlefinger is plotting somehow with the Umbers, he would know.


Good point.


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

So the burned-up khals knew about Khaleesi "trusting a sorceress" but not about her surviving a fire?

Hmm.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Maybe they figured that was hyperbole.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Maybe they heard about the sorceress from people who left before the fire. Many riders left before that, if I recall correctly.


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

Robin said:


> Maybe they figured that was hyperbole.


Maybe they thought she survived the fire because the sorceress was there.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

madscientist said:


> Maybe they heard about the sorceress from people who left before the fire. Many riders left before that, if I recall correctly.


This is, I think, the right answer. Most of the khalasar left after Khal Drogo became ill, and after he died, most of the remainder deserted as well. The ones who stayed had basically defied all Dothraki traditions to follow Dany, so who was going to spread the fire story?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think he's just confused about where the "y" goes in the word.


Petry? Oh, Rob!


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Marco said:


> So the burned-up khals knew about Khaleesi "trusting a sorceress" but not about her surviving a fire? Hmm.


Why would they even expect to be burned? The fire was not ceremonial. It was literally part of the furniture. It just didn't occur to them that she would do what she did. Once she started it was too late. They still treated her like a subservient woman. Not as a real threat.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

If you want to see Ramsay's actual letter.


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## ct1 (Jun 27, 2003)

So _Ramsay_ goes out of his way to insult Jon by calling him a 'bastard'?

Sounds legit.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

wprager said:


> Oh, so what is the "good friends with Rose wink-wink-nudge-nudge" reply all about?


I spelled it wrong, he corrected me but also spelled it wrong, so we kept making fun of each other...we also play in the same fantasy football league so that just spilled over as well...



wprager said:


> Plus someone referred to you as "Anubis" ('i' instead of 'y') so I thought it was all somehow connected.


I think that was just an honest mistake since it's the "normal" spelling of it (but someone else had it already when I signed up).



ct1 said:


> So _Ramsay_ goes out of his way to insult Jon by calling him a 'bastard'?
> 
> Sounds legit.


Much like a black person would use the N-word to antagonize another if they want to pick a fight. I saw nothing wrong with it.

I don't see why people are surprised that Littlefinger would know a lot and have spies everywhere. Have people not been watching this show


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Plus isn't Ramsay no longer a bastard? I figured he was rubbing that in Jon's face.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Robin said:


> Plus isn't Ramsay no longer a bastard? I figured he was rubbing that in Jon's face.


That would be my interpretation...


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

He'll always be a bastard in my eyes.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

heySkippy said:


> How would Baelish know Rickon is at Winterfell or that Rickon's wolf is dead?


Little birds?

Littlefinger and the bald dude just know things. I've stopped wondering how. But quite honestly, Littlefinger could have put that other house up to this to help get Jon Snow in the battle.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

allan said:


> He'll always be a bastard in my eyes.


He's both!


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

JYoung said:


> If you want to see Ramsay's actual letter.


That beautiful calligraphy was too centre-justified. And Ramsay used two different pens to get the bold and the regular text? All previous notes in GoT have been on little strips of wide paper.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> Petry? Oh, Rob!


Nice!


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Heads up for anyone wanting more of Iain Glen (Jorah), he'll be in a six episode series on Sundance TV called "Cleverman" starting June 1st ...


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

getreal said:


> Heads up for anyone wanting more of Iain Glen (Jorah), he'll be in a six episode series on Sundance TV called "Cleverman" starting June 1st ...


Reminds me too much of ABCs...


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## markbox (May 3, 2004)

Dawghows said:


> At least two of us have already confirmed (having gone back and watched the episode where Dany chained them up) that she took the dragons into the chamber through the same entry that Tyrion and Varys used when Tyrion released them. We haven't seen that the dragons have left, but they are clearly no longer trapped.


Sorry, I missed your post the first time I came back to the thread. I recall Varys staying at the top of some stairs in front of a human sized door while Tyrion goes down to unchain the dragons. I doubt the dragons could fit through that human sized door. However, since I have not re-watched the last episode of season 4 I'll defer to those how have.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

markbox said:


> Sorry, I missed your post the first time I came back to the thread. I recall Varys staying at the top of some stairs in front of a human sized door while Tyrion goes down to unchain the dragons. I doubt the dragons could fit through that human sized door. However, since I have not re-watched the last episode of season 4 I'll defer to those how have.


Here are screenshots.

http://screencapped.net/tv/gameofthrones/displayimage.php?album=1373&pid=1554959#top_display_media

http://screencapped.net/tv/gameofthrones/displayimage.php?album=1395&pid=1587230#top_display_media

As mentioned before, the biggest difference is how much bigger the dragons are now.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

For a lot of four-legged creatures (as opposed to bipeds, where shoulders may be wider than four-legged creatures), if they can get their head through an opening, they can manage to squeeze the rest of their bodies through. If that is true for these dragons, then the question is whether their heads will fit through the opening. It looks like it could be close, but I guess their heads will fit.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

And they can melt rock.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

JYoung said:


> If you want to see Ramsay's actual letter.












Did somebody say something about eyes and sockets?


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