# HBO MAX app?



## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

Has Tivo said whether there will be a HBO MAX app for Roamio/Bolt?


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## mazman (Nov 13, 2002)

Likely right after the promised Comcast VOD replacement app, never.


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## greer1999 (Apr 5, 2017)

Tivo - great DVR - not so great steaming device... I suspect they'll have new streaming apps... Never...

Not sure why their website still claims Tivo is the 'all-in-one' box. It is a great DVR but the few apps they support are all very old and clunky and likely never going to be improved.

Best bet is to use Roku or Firestick etc. The Firestick that is often available for $40 or less runs circles around Tivo apps but neither Roku or Firestick currently support HBO Max. At least not yet. I can't imagine they'll let that stand - Roku and Amazon basically 'own' the streaming market.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

If you need an inexpensive streaming device that supports HBO Max right now, you could get the Mi Box S, which runs Google's Android TV system. It's sold exclusively through Walmart and costs $50. Supports 4K HDR. It recently got the Amazon Prime Video app too, so it supports all the main apps.

Or you can wait and see if Google announces their own forthcoming Android TV streamer this week at an upcoming event that's scheduled. A lot of info has already leaked out about it. It will support 4K HDR, including Dolby Vision. Price is unknown, although rumored to be under $80.

The cheapest way to stream HBO Max on your TV right now is with a $30 Chromecast device (1080p HD only). You'll load the HBO Max app on your iPhone, iPad or Android phone or tablet and then cast it from there to the Chromecast connected to your TV.


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## TivoJD (Feb 8, 2005)

Mi Box S is a good box, but it doesn't support Hulu. I was surprised. I have so many different streamers, so it doesn't matter to me, I can just switch to a different one, but if you need a box that supports Hulu and HBO Max, Mi Box S isn't the one.


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

Kinda surprised no-one is suggesting the Tivo Stream 4k. I think they have HBO Max, which prompted my question. I figured they have experience with HBO Max and have some sort of contract to allow access. And as they also have apps for Bolt/Roamio for Netflix/HBO Go/Amazon Prime/etc that HBO Max would be a logical step. But I don't want another streamer like the 4k - just the app.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

greer1999 said:


> Tivo - great DVR - not so great steaming device... I suspect they'll have new streaming apps... Never...
> 
> Not sure why their website still claims Tivo is the 'all-in-one' box. It is a great DVR but the few apps they support are all very old and clunky and likely never going to be improved.
> 
> Best bet is to use Roku or Firestick etc. The Firestick that is often available for $40 or less runs circles around Tivo apps but neither Roku or Firestick currently support HBO Max. At least not yet. I can't imagine they'll let that stand - Roku and Amazon basically 'own' the streaming market.


Yeah, I actually wish I could complete remove the "apps" menu item on my TiVo main menu. It's nearly useless... And by "nearly" I mean it is totally useless...


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## Noelmel (Nov 6, 2014)

rgr said:


> Kinda surprised no-one is suggesting the Tivo Stream 4k. I think they have HBO Max, which prompted my question. I figured they have experience with HBO Max and have some sort of contract to allow access. And as they also have apps for Bolt/Roamio for Netflix/HBO Go/Amazon Prime/etc that HBO Max would be a logical step. But I don't want another streamer like the 4k - just the app.


Yah I don't see them adding any new apps to the DVRS. Maybe somehow when HBO Now goes away at the end of the month it would turn to MAX but I highly doubt it. One of the main reasons I got a stream 4K. I really like it and hope one day it will at least connect to my Roamio.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Could just get a Stream 4k...

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

TivoJD said:


> Mi Box S is a good box, but it doesn't support Hulu. I was surprised. I have so many different streamers, so it doesn't matter to me, I can just switch to a different one, but if you need a box that supports Hulu and HBO Max, Mi Box S isn't the one.


Seems that after Mi Box S updated to Android TV 9 that it has problems with the Hulu app. Not sure who's to blame there. Maybe an older version of the Hulu app can be sideloaded? (Admittedly though, that's a pain.)

Anyhow, as rgr mentions above, I should have just recommended the $50 TiVo Stream 4K rather than the Mi Box S which costs the same. The TS4K does have some bugs but it sounds like they're getting them fixed. It definitely supports HBO Max and Hulu, along with all the other major apps (except the Apple TV app, which isn't yet available on any Android TV device).


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## janitor53 (Jun 9, 2016)

They have been adding apps though, Pluto was just added recently....so someone is working on this.


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## Furmaniac (Apr 3, 2018)

TIVO STREAM 4k has HBO MAX.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Tivo doesn't write the apps, so it is not really up to them per se.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Furmaniac said:


> TIVO STREAM 4k has HBO MAX.


Too bad it has nothing to do with any Tivo DVR, might as well suggest a chromecast, firestick, etc


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

dianebrat said:


> Too bad it has nothing to do with any Tivo DVR, might as well suggest a chromecast, firestick, etc


The Fire TV Stick doesn't have an HBO Max app either. Nor does Roku.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

NashGuy said:


> The Fire TV Stick doesn't have an HBO Max app either. Nor does Roku.


wow, I knew about the Roku, but the firestick is a surprise.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

dianebrat said:


> wow, I knew about the Roku, but the firestick is a surprise.


Both Amazon and Roku are being rough negotiators these days, so both are lacking both of this summer's big new apps, HBO Max and Peacock. Which, IMO, creates a real opening for Google's Android TV, which has them both. (Apple TV does too, but at $150+, it's in a whole different price category.)


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

NashGuy said:


> Both Amazon and Roku are being rough negotiators these days, so both are lacking both of this summer's big new apps, HBO Max and Peacock. Which, IMO, creates a real opening for Google's Android TV, which has them both. (Apple TV does too, but at $150+, it's in a whole different price category.)


Yeah but AndroidTV isn't synonymous with a streaming box/stick like Roku and FireTV. I mean what lower end AndroidTV box or stick are the customers going to flock to? The Tivo STream 4k? Not seeing that happening.

I don't see Roku or FireTV losing customers in the short run over this. IF it drags on and on and on and we look up and it's summer 2021 then that's different.


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

NashGuy said:


> Both Amazon and Roku are being rough negotiators these days, so both are lacking both of this summer's big new apps, HBO Max and Peacock. Which, IMO, creates a real opening for Google's Android TV, which has them both. (Apple TV does too, but at $150+, it's in a whole different price category.)


Performance ain't often 'CHEAP'!!!


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

trip1eX said:


> Yeah but AndroidTV isn't synonymous with a streaming box/stick like Roku and FireTV. I mean what lower end AndroidTV box or stick are the customers going to flock to? The Tivo STream 4k? Not seeing that happening.
> 
> I don't see Roku or FireTV losing customers in the short run over this. IF it drags on and on and on and we look up and it's summer 2021 then that's different.


I've been saying for two or three years that Google should release their own Android TV "hero device" which could be the affordable, mainstream retail device for the platform that consumers might flock to. And it looks like they're finally about to do that. Google's upcoming dongle, code-named Sabrina and probably to be branded something like Nest TV, may be set for a September release (based on a column/tweets yesterday from industry analyst Rich Greenfield).

Even more interesting, Greenfield claims that Google is in talks with Charter (the second-largest broadband provider in the nation) to supply the Nest TV to their broadband-only customers. Guess they're not interesting in going the Cox route and licensing Comcast's X1 to offer the (inferior, IMO) Flex box as a video streaming solution to those customers. Greenfield also tells me that Charter may license Android TV to embed in their next-gen cable TV boxes, as AT&T TV has done (along with lots of other MVPDs outside the US).

If Roku and Fire TV go several months without both HBO Max and Peacock, they'll lose some users over it. I already see folks on Reddit asking which device they can turn to to get these apps (with the TiVo Stream 4K being one of the most often mentioned, along with the upcoming Google dongle). Google is already offering free Peacock Premium on their devices for three months, through Oct. 15. They'd be smart to strike a deal with WarnerMedia to include at least a one-month free trial to HBO Max with purchase of the device when it rolls out.

If we go the rest of this year without HBO Max and Peacock apps on Roku and Fire TV, I can see a lot of folks buying the Nest TV, either for themselves or as a gift, during the holiday season (when all these streaming devices tend to be temporarily discounted). And if Charter gives one of these dongle out for free to each of their broadband-only households, that would ramp up the install base by several million.

Meanwhile, we know that Comcast's free Flex box, as well as their X1 cable boxes, have the Peacock app. It was announced at the May launch of HBO Max that that app would also come to X1/Flex. Might that happen this year? That could only further encourage disgruntled Roku and Fire TV users to do their streaming on a Comcast-provided box.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

NashGuy said:


> I've been saying for two or three years that Google should release their own Android TV "hero device" which could be the affordable, mainstream retail device for the platform that consumers might flock to. And it looks like they're finally about to do that. Google's upcoming dongle, code-named Sabrina and probably to be branded something like Nest TV, may be set for a September release (based on a column/tweets yesterday from industry analyst Rich Greenfield).
> 
> Even more interesting, Greenfield claims that Google is in talks with Charter (the second-largest broadband provider in the nation) to supply the Nest TV to their broadband-only customers. Guess they're not interesting in going the Cox route and licensing Comcast's X1 to offer the (inferior, IMO) Flex box as a video streaming solution to those customers. Greenfield also tells me that Charter may license Android TV to embed in their next-gen cable TV boxes, as AT&T TV has done (along with lots of other MVPDs outside the US).
> 
> ...


I'm sure more than 0 people are going to leave Roku and FireTV over this but we're talking about platforms with tens of millions of customers. A few folks on Reddit is still a nothing burger. 10k is a nothing burger. 100k.

And people are going to go check out the Google dongle no matter what. I mean I will probably check it out. And I have an AppleTV that I like. The dongle is also not out for a few months.

And a certain amt of churn happens between platforms as it is. Also many people own multiple streaming platforms and just because you might get another platform to watch x doesn't you won't get back to y once a deal is had or that you won't still mostly use y.

I don't see anything really changing unless it goes on long term and if HBO Max and Peacock become highly desirable. Right now I don't really see them as highly desirable. I think HBO has its cache but of course there is still HBO on the Roku and Firetv. I fully expect a deal in the short term as well.

Flex...don't think it does anything. Cable company product and all.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

trip1eX said:


> I'm sure more than 0 people are going to leave Roku and FireTV over this but we're talking about platforms with tens of millions of customers. A few folks on Reddit is still a nothing burger. 10k is a nothing burger. 100k.
> 
> And people are going to go check out the Google dongle no matter what. I mean I will probably check it out. And I have an AppleTV that I like. The dongle is also not out for a few months.
> 
> ...


We'll see. I certainly don't think Roku or Fire TV are going to lose 30% of their user base over the lack of those apps but I think, should they be missing the rest of the year and into 2021, they'll lose more than 100k users. But that will also depend on how aggressively Google distributes and prices their dongle.

The number of shows exclusive (or free) on Peacock and HBO Max is only going to grow, awareness of those services is only going to grow, and so will the perception among Roku and Fire TV users that they have a second-class device that's missing some important apps.

And it's not out of the question that HBO just ceases to completely distribute through Amazon or Roku at some point if an agreement for HBO Max isn't reached. Seriously, how many subscribers to HBO Now (via Amazon/Roku app store) + HBO (Amazon Channels) + HBO (Roku Channel) do you think there are now? I'd be surprised if they total up to more than 10% of HBO's ~36 million US subs. HBO completely walked away from DISH back in fall 2018 when they couldn't come to terms and I'd bet DISH had as many or more HBO subscribers back then than Amazon and Roku combined do now.

EDIT: And keep in mind that a lot of the HBO subscribers who stream HBO on Roku and Fire TV are paying for HBO via their cable company, and therefore using the HBO Go app. That app will completely disappear from Roku and Fire TV devices at the end of this month. If they want to continue streaming HBO content on their TV, their only option will be to use the HBO Max app on a different device.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

NashGuy said:


> We'll see. I certainly don't think Roku or Fire TV are going to lose 30% of their user base over the lack of those apps but I think, should they be missing the rest of the year and into 2021, they'll lose more than 100k users. But that will also depend on how aggressively Google distributes and prices their dongle.
> 
> The number of shows exclusive (or free) on Peacock and HBO Max is only going to grow, awareness of those services is only going to grow, and so will the perception among Roku and Fire TV users that they have a second-class device that's missing some important apps.
> 
> And it's not out of the question that HBO just ceases to completely distribute through Amazon or Roku at some point if an agreement for HBO Max isn't reached. Seriously, how many subscribers to HBO Now (via Amazon/Roku app store) + HBO (Amazon Channels) + HBO (Roku Channel) do you think there are now? I'd be surprised if they total up to more than 10% of HBO's ~36 million US subs. HBO completely walked away from DISH back in fall 2018 when they couldn't come to terms and I'd bet DISH had as many or more HBO subscribers back then than Amazon and Roku combined do now.


more than 100k users meaning what? 101k users? 

The Google dongle can take some of their business over the next few years. But there was always a decent chance it takes some of their business. IT's Google. There is some leverage there with Android phone. Chromecast has sold lots of devices as well. And Android TV is built into tvs already so some people might be used to it.

Of course Peacock and HBO Max will grow etc. But that's long term.

I don't see a deal not being done in the short term.

Dish and HBO? HBO and DirectTV are owned by ATT. Pretty easy to see why a deal with Dish fell apart.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

trip1eX said:


> Dish and HBO? HBO and DirectTV are owned by ATT. Pretty easy to see why a deal with Dish fell apart.


Actually, the timing wasn't great for AT&T given that they were trying to get approval for the TimeWarner acquisition right then. But that's besides the point. My point was that if they were willing to walk away from a traditional distributor, DISH, which probably accounted for more HBO subs at that time than Amazon and Roku combined do now, that it's certainly not out of the question that they'll completely walk away from Amazon and Roku as distribution partners too. For now, you can continue to sign up for HBO (but not HBO Max) via Amazon Channels and the Roku Channel. And I suppose that the HBO Now app on Fire TV and Roku still allows new sign-ups, with billing via Amazon and Roku, too. All of that is probably still based on whatever existing contracts HBO had in place with them before the advent of HBO Max. When do those contracts end? I can't see them being renewed unless they agree to distribute HBO Max and support that app on their platforms.

Bottom line is that HBO is an important service with ~36 million subs (several million more than either Hulu or Disney+). It's not cheap, it costs $15/mo, and if it becomes difficult for HBO subscribers to continue accessing the service on their existing cheap streaming device, many folks will eventually switch to a different device. The HBO Go app disappears end of this month. That's the next event that will increase pressure on getting a deal done.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

MikeekiM said:


> Yeah, I actually wish I could complete remove the "apps" menu item on my TiVo main menu. It's nearly useless... And by "nearly" I mean it is totally useless...


If you find it useless, then just ignore it. I use it daily <shrug>. Different strokes & all....


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

snerd said:


> If you find it useless, then just ignore it. I use it daily <shrug>. Different strokes & all....


Yes... I agree... I am not saying remove it for everyone... I am saying that it should be configured to give people the option of hiding/removing it for those that are using another STB for their streaming solution... Honestly, I don't mind using it as my streaming platform if they supported it... But it is out of support... No new apps...no app updates... As a result, I kind of have been forced off the TiVo platform as my one-stop shop for streaming services...


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

NashGuy said:


> Actually, the timing wasn't great for AT&T given that they were trying to get approval for the TimeWarner acquisition right then. But that's besides the point. My point was that if they were willing to walk away from a traditional distributor, DISH, which probably accounted for more HBO subs at that time than Amazon and Roku combined do now, that it's certainly not out of the question that they'll completely walk away from Amazon and Roku as distribution partners too. For now, you can continue to sign up for HBO (but not HBO Max) via Amazon Channels and the Roku Channel. And I suppose that the HBO Now app on Fire TV and Roku still allows new sign-ups, with billing via Amazon and Roku, too. All of that is probably still based on whatever existing contracts HBO had in place with them before the advent of HBO Max. When do those contracts end? I can't see them being renewed unless they agree to distribute HBO Max and support that app on their platforms.
> 
> Bottom line is that HBO is an important service with ~36 million subs (several million more than either Hulu or Disney+). It's not cheap, it costs $15/mo, and if it becomes difficult for HBO subscribers to continue accessing the service on their existing cheap streaming device, many folks will eventually switch to a different device. The HBO Go app disappears end of this month. That's the next event that will increase pressure on getting a deal done.


ATT closed the Time Warner deal on June 21st 2018. Dish didn't block out HBO until later in the year.

It's not beside the pt because DTV was a very direct competitor to DISH. And DTV and HBO were owned by ATT.

DISH didn't like that like ATT was offering HBO at a discount to DTV customers. DTV being the only other satellite tv option to Dish. Dish thought that was anti-competitive. The position Dish seems to have been in is one of damned if we do, damned if we don't. IF they make a deal, well DTV just says, 'hey potential subscriber, you get discounted HBO if you come over here.' And DISH loses a lot of those HBO customers anyway. So not sure they really saw any advantage to doing a deal there given those conditions. Also at that point, a customer could get HBO through streaming and DISH probably knows how many of their customers carry streaming services in addition to their satellite subscription. DISH obviously also knows how many get HBO in the first place. They run the numbers.

FireTV and Roku meanwhile aren't in that same boat with ATT and Comcast as far as I know.

And thus I don't think the disagreement carries on long. FireTV and Roku would seemingly want all services on their platforms. And Peacock and HBO Max would seemingly want to be on all platforms.

I also don't think it's a biggie in the short term because these are new services. IT's not like one day you wake up as a FireTV or Roku owner and you don't have what you had.

Also not like NBC Content isn't available elsewhere like OTA and Hulu. Not like a lot of FireTV and Roku owners don't also have cable/satellite and thus not only have a lot of the NBC content but the Time Warner content too. NOt like the HBO part isn't on FireTV and Roku still. I see this as a sign that in the short term that customers won't be in a hurry to get Max and Peacock.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

trip1eX said:


> ATT closed the Time Warner deal on June 21st 2018. Dish didn't block out HBO until later in the year.
> 
> It's not beside the pt because DTV was a very direct competitor to DISH. And DTV and HBO were owned by ATT.
> 
> DISH didn't like that like ATT was offering HBO at a discount to DTV customers. DTV being the only other satellite tv option to Dish. Dish thought that was anti-competitive. The position Dish seems to have been in is one of damned if we do, damned if we don't. IF they make a deal, well DTV just says, 'hey potential subscriber, you get discounted HBO if you come over here.' And DISH loses a lot of those HBO customers anyway. So not sure they really saw any advantage to doing a deal there given those conditions. Also at that point, a customer could get HBO through streaming and DISH probably knows how many of their customers carry streaming services in addition to their satellite subscription. DISH obviously also knows how many get HBO in the first place. They run the numbers.


No, still beside the point, which is really, really simple to understand: *HBO has already walked away from a major distributor serving millions of HBO (and Cinemax) subscribers due to a contract dispute that they couldn't resolve.* *If they did it before, there's no reason to think that they won't stick to their guns and do it again.* DISH's Charlie Ergen is a legendarily hard bargainer; Amazon and Roku are increasingly so as well. And frankly, ditching Roku and Amazon as billers/distributors looks much less daunting than ditching DISH. For consumers, replacing a $40 streaming stick isn't as big a deal as switching away from a contract-based traditional cable TV service with rooftop dishes and DVRs.



trip1eX said:


> And thus I don't think the disagreement carries on long. FireTV and Roku would seemingly want all services on their platforms. And Peacock and HBO Max would seemingly want to be on all platforms.
> 
> I also don't think it's a biggie in the short term because these are new services. IT's not like one day you wake up as a FireTV or Roku owner and you don't have what you had.


Yes, in fact, millions of Fire TV and Roku owners will wake up on Aug. 1 and find that they no longer have an HBO Go app, nor do they have the new HBO Max app to replace it. Keep in mind that the HBO Go app has always been far more widely used than the HBO Now app. On top of that, you already have some folks who pay Roku or Amazon $15/mo for HBO asking why they're not getting all that additional free Max content via HBO Max, which costs the same $15/mo. That's not as big a deal, IMO, as the pending loss of HBO Go, but the discontent about that will only grow as people hear more and more about this or that series or movie that's on HBO Max but not on the HBO service they get from Roku/Amazon for the same price. Those folks feel like they're being cheated.

I don't think there's going to be a flood of folks immediately replacing their Roku and Fire TV devices but if the standoff goes on for months, there will be a decent number who do. Not sure why you're so confident that the disagreement doesn't carry on for long. Maybe it won't.

Tell me, in your mind, which side is going to cave and in what way to bring the standoff to a quick conclusion? It wouldn't surprise me if Roku comes to a deal this summer (around the time the HBO Go app disappears), as I think their main point of contention is revenue sharing. But with Amazon, I think it's more about a desire to subsume all of HBO Max into their own Prime Video UI via Amazon Channels. I think Amazon is pretty dug in on demanding that. Meanwhile, I think it's a red line that HBO Max won't give in on.



trip1eX said:


> Also not like NBC Content isn't available elsewhere like OTA and Hulu. Not like a lot of FireTV and Roku owners don't also have cable/satellite and thus not only have a lot of the NBC content but the Time Warner content too. NOt like the HBO part isn't on FireTV and Roku still. I see this as a sign that in the short term that customers won't be in a hurry to get Max and Peacock.


Ad-supported free stuff has really taken off in the last year or so (and likely will continue to do so as the economy tanks) and Peacock will be a major player there. It'll just add to Fire TV and Roku users' FOMO if they can't get it. And tens of millions of folks will have access to Peacock Premium for free because they get broadband from Comcast or Cox, or for three months because they own an Android phone with the Google Play Store. There's plenty of stuff on the free tier of Peacock, much less Peacock Premium (with about 2x the content), that isn't regularly airing on NBC's broadcast and cable channels.

At the end of the day, Roku and Fire TV users just want relatively inexpensive devices that give them access to the content they want. I don't think there's a ton of brand loyalty. Content is king. And Roku, in particular, was always known as the platform that had every app. If these stand-offs drag on into the holiday buying season, that perception will change and plenty of folks will pick up the new Google device that they'll have heard about.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

NashGuy said:


> No, still beside the point, which is really, really simple to understand: *HBO has already walked away from a major distributor serving millions of HBO (and Cinemax) subscribers due to a contract dispute that they couldn't resolve.* *If they did it before, there's no reason to think that they won't stick to their guns and do it again.* DISH's Charlie Ergen is a legendarily hard bargainer; Amazon and Roku are increasingly so as well. And frankly, ditching Roku and Amazon as billers/distributors looks much less daunting than ditching DISH. For consumers, replacing a $40 streaming stick isn't as big a deal as switching away from a contract-based traditional cable TV service with rooftop dishes and DVRs.


I gave you the reason why it won't happen again. FireTV and Roku aren't direct competitors to ATT or Comcast. DISH balked because ATT wouldn't let HBO give the same rates to DISH as their direct competitor DTV got. ATT owns both HBO and DTV.



NashGuy said:


> Yes, in fact, millions of Fire TV and Roku owners will wake up on Aug. 1 and find that they no longer have an HBO Go app, nor do they have the new HBO Max app to replace it. Keep in mind that the HBO Go app has always been far more widely used than the HBO Now app. On top of that, you already have some folks who pay Roku or Amazon $15/mo for HBO asking why they're not getting all that additional free Max content via HBO Max, which costs the same $15/mo. That's not as big a deal, IMO, as the pending loss of HBO Go, but the discontent about that will only grow as people hear more and more about this or that series or movie that's on HBO Max but not on the HBO service they get from Roku/Amazon for the same price. Those folks feel like they're being cheated.
> 
> I don't think there's going to be a flood of folks immediately replacing their Roku and Fire TV devices but if the standoff goes on for months, there will be a decent number who do. Not sure why you're so confident that the disagreement doesn't carry on for long. Maybe it won't.
> 
> Tell me, in your mind, which side is going to cave and in what way to bring the standoff to a quick conclusion? It wouldn't surprise me if Roku comes to a deal this summer (around the time the HBO Go app disappears), as I think their main point of contention is revenue sharing. But with Amazon, I think it's more about a desire to subsume all of HBO Max into their own Prime Video UI via Amazon Channels. I think Amazon is pretty dug in on demanding that. Meanwhile, I think it's a red line that HBO Max won't give in on.


I'm confident it will be resolved in the short term because it seems to be in the interest of both parties and because there doesn't appear to be the massive conflict of interest between Amazon/Roku and ATT/Comcast that there was between DISH and ATT(aka DTV &HBO.)



NashGuy said:


> Ad-supported free stuff has really taken off in the last year or so (and likely will continue to do so as the economy tanks) and Peacock will be a major player there. It'll just add to Fire TV and Roku users' FOMO if they can't get it. And tens of millions of folks will have access to Peacock Premium for free because they get broadband from Comcast or Cox, or for three months because they own an Android phone with the Google Play Store. There's plenty of stuff on the free tier of Peacock, much less Peacock Premium (with about 2x the content), that isn't regularly airing on NBC's broadcast and cable channels.
> 
> At the end of the day, Roku and Fire TV users just want relatively inexpensive devices that give them access to the content they want. I don't think there's a ton of brand loyalty. Content is king. And Roku, in particular, was always known as the platform that had every app. If these stand-offs drag on into the holiday buying season, that perception will change and plenty of folks will pick up the new Google device that they'll have heard about.


Sure but a lot of the content is available elsewhere. I'm just doing the maths. IF a lot of the content is elsewhere or you have a lot of it already then are you going to care in the short run about not having HBO Max and Peacock even if you had some interest? NOt so much.

Also I feel like a lot of your point is based on these services being must haves already. These are new services. The uptake remains to be seen. I like HBO but I didn't go out and resubscribe yet again even though I have an AppleTV. My brother has HBO and Firesticks along with DTV. I don't think he even knows about the Max part of HBO.

I also feel like there is a limit to how many services people are going to subscribe to. Cable/Satellite customers which still represent a ton of households aren't going to carry many streaming services. The cord cutters who lowered their bill a ton aren't going to carry lots of services at once.

Anyway, overall, it's just never going to get to the point where mass waves of customers leave FireTV and Roku over this. Agreements will be made.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

Interesting write up on the hardball between HBO Max, Peacock, Roku and Amazon.

HBO Max, Peacock Are in Standoff With Roku and Amazon Fire TV - Variety

IMO, both HBO and Peacock can pound sand. I suspect that HBO will withdraw from the Prime Channel arrangement they have with Amazon- and if that happens it's $15 less they'll get from me.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Saturn_V said:


> IMO, both HBO and Peacock can pound sand. I suspect that HBO will withdraw from the Prime Channel arrangement they have with Amazon- and if that happens it's $15 less they'll get from me.


 I agree. I much prefer the Amazon app for playback compared to the HBO one, and better to stay with one consistent video playback app than switching between disparate ones. So without access via Amazon Channels I probably won't bother with HBO.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Saturn_V said:


> Interesting write up on the hardball between HBO Max, Peacock, Roku and Amazon.
> 
> HBO Max, Peacock Are in Standoff With Roku and Amazon Fire TV - Variety
> 
> IMO, both HBO and Peacock can pound sand. I suspect that HBO will withdraw from the Prime Channel arrangement they have with Amazon- and if that happens it's $15 less they'll get from me.


The HBO Now app deal with Fire TV expires July 31st. I would assume a deal is done by then either for Max or an extension for an HBO app on FireTV in the meantime. According to your link that is what Roku has in place while they negotiate the terms of the Max deal.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

moyekj said:


> I agree. I much prefer the Amazon app for playback compared to the HBO one, and better to stay with one consistent video playback app than switching between disparate ones. So without access via Amazon Channels I probably won't bother with HBO.


Most of the benefits of that approach can be achieved with something like the TV app on Apple TV. You can browse through content from lots of different apps (basically everything but Netflix) in one place and then have a unified watchlist that tracks what you've watched, regardless of whether you clicked to begin watching from within the TV app or from within the underlying app (e.g. Hulu, HBO Max, etc.). Playback controls and UI conventions are pretty consistent between the major apps on Apple TV (although I was disappointed to discover last night that the new Peacock app does not conform to the standard Apple TV guidelines).

My guess is that the "channel" model so successfully run by Amazon (and to a far lesser extent by Roku) will largely diminish in the next year or two. That's why they're really trying to force HBO Max to participate. They're the big kahuna and if they walk away, then the whole concept isn't as important. Netflix, Hulu and Disney+ are obviously never going to participate in "channels". I was a little surprised to see CBS All Access begin participating in "channels" a year or so ago, although I think that's only on the ad-free version. Once they relaunch/rebrand the service after adding in lots of new Viacom content, it wouldn't surprise me to see them walk away from the channels concept too. Perhaps its sibling Showtime will remain. As for Starz, Epix and smaller services like CuriosityStream, I can't see any of them walking away from channels because they're too small and need all the subscribers they can get.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

For now, anyway, I just ignore TiVo for my streaming and use the apps on my LG Smart TV. Prime, HBO Max (on Android phone for now, not on LG TV yet), Disney+, CBS All Access, Comcast On Demand, Netflix, Peacock Premium (with Comcast)


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

I'm actually finding that when I have no clue what I want to watch, I go to the TiVo Stream as it presents me with movies and shows from almost all my streaming services in one place. I'm actually liking that.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

MikeekiM said:


> Yeah, I actually wish I could complete remove the "apps" menu item on my TiVo main menu. It's nearly useless... And by "nearly" I mean it is totally useless...


for YOU it's useless, but IIRC that's how you get to streambaby.. If I could do quickplay with a streambaby recording, I'd use it more. nowadays, I only use it a couple times a year (for things I offloaded from my Tivo and aren't available via some other streaming service).


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

NashGuy said:


> Meanwhile, we know that Comcast's free Flex box


I don't remember hearing of that before, so I googled it and found their page..

So at the top they say:
Xfinity Flex brings you what you love, all in one place - your TV! And now, you're eligible for Flex if you have Xfinity Internet, even if you don't have Xfinity TV service.

But deeper down:

If you're an Xfinity TV customer, you aren't eligible for Flex.

which is bizarre when they say "even if" above. Also, the first one is free for internet customers.. I thought maybe this was something you bought (like they seem to sell some things like third party wifi extenders, etc nowadays).

Since I have TV, obviously I can't get one. More on topic, I "still" have HBO through cable, and prefer it that way.. mostly so I can record things like documentaries and watch them in quickplay. (e.g. I just found out about the documentary "I'll Be Gone in the Dark" and happened to catch reruns of the first 3 eps and then the week's new episode yesterday..). But when I'm watching movies (or I'm finally starting back on Silicon Valley in the 4th season), I watch on Apple TV. If the apps on Tivo launched faster, I would probably put up with using them more often..


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

mattack said:


> for YOU it's useless, but IIRC that's how you get to streambaby.. If I could do quickplay with a streambaby recording, I'd use it more. nowadays, I only use it a couple times a year (for things I offloaded from my Tivo and aren't available via some other streaming service).


Correct...but I explained myself in a post that you "liked", so I assume we are good here...


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mattack said:


> I don't remember hearing of that before, so I googled it and found their page..
> 
> So at the top they say:
> Xfinity Flex brings you what you love, all in one place - your TV! And now, you're eligible for Flex if you have Xfinity Internet, even if you don't have Xfinity TV service.
> ...


Yeah, if you have standalone broadband from Comcast, they offer you one free Flex box. It isn't yours to keep, it's just a free rental. If you want a second one, it's $5/mo. The Flex box is really just a particular model X1, the 4K HDR-capable Xi6 (IPTV only, no tuners, no hard drive). When deployed as Flex, it runs a different UI designed for streaming. When deployed as X1, it has Comcast's standard cable TV UI.

Odd thing is that if you have a Flex box and decide to add Comcast cable TV service to your account, then they'll start charging you $5/mo to rent the Flex box because it will begin acting like an X1 cable box.

When you sign up for Comcast cable TV now, it asks you how many X1 boxes you want but gives you an option not to take any and instead just use the Xfinity Stream app on your own devices. I guess they want to appear pro-consumer by letting their IPTV cable TV customers completely avoid equipment rental fees, just as CableCARD-using TiVo owners have done for years. They could just let all their customers, including TV subscribers, have one free box rental but then I'm sure that they'd just up the price of the TV subscription by about $5 to account for that, which would really mean that paying to rent their cable boxes would be unavoidable.


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## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

NashGuy said:


> Yes, in fact, millions of Fire TV and Roku owners will wake up on Aug. 1 and find that they no longer have an HBO Go app, nor do they have the new HBO Max app to replace it. Keep in mind that the HBO Go app has always been far more widely used than the HBO Now app. On top of that, you already have some folks who pay Roku or Amazon $15/mo for HBO asking why they're not getting all that additional free Max content via HBO Max, which costs the same $15/mo. That's not as big a deal, IMO, as the pending loss of HBO Go, but the discontent about that will only grow as people hear more and more about this or that series or movie that's on HBO Max but not on the HBO service they get from Roku/Amazon for the same price. Those folks feel like they're being cheated.


I have Amazon Fire TV along with a Bolt. Went to watch Perry Mason on HBO Go last night and got the message the app has been discontinued. It took me about 30 minutes to figure out how to side load HBO Max to fire TV. Fire TV is an Android device unlike Roku so this is a good option for Fire TV owners.

Tivo Stream sounds like an intriguing option. I'll need to learn more about it and see if there is any integration between their streaming dongle and Tivo Bold DVR.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Johnny Dancing said:


> I have Amazon Fire TV along with a Bolt. Went to watch Perry Mason on HBO Go last night and got the message the app has been discontinued. It took me about 30 minutes to figure out how to side load HBO Max to fire TV. Fire TV is an Android device unlike Roku so this is a good option for Fire TV owners.
> 
> Tivo Stream sounds like an intriguing option. I'll need to learn more about it and see if there is any integration between their streaming dongle and Tivo Bold DVR.


I'm currently running "HBO" (not HBO GO or HBO MAX) on my Fire TV 4K and it is still working fine and no side-loading required. I thought I might have to side load HBO MAX to keep things working starting August 1, but not the case. I don't really care about the extra content available via HBO MAX versus what I have now, at least for now. For HBO I mostly just subscribe for a couple of months a year to catch up. Didn't see much of interest extra I would get access to with MAX.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

moyekj said:


> I'm currently running "HBO" (not HBO GO or HBO MAX) on my Fire TV 4K and it is still working fine and no side-loading required. I thought I might have to side load HBO MAX to keep things working starting August 1, but not the case. I don't really care about the extra content available via HBO MAX versus what I have now, at least for now. For HBO I mostly just subscribe for a couple of months a year to catch up. Didn't see much of interest extra I would get access to with MAX.


Yeah, the situation isn't as bad for Roku and Fire TV owners as it sounded like it was going to be just a few days ago. We knew that the existing HBO Now app on Roku and Fire TV would be renamed to just "HBO," so those folks who were using the HBO Now app would be OK. But we also knew that the HBO Go app on those devices would disappear. What we didn't know then, but do now, is that if you subscribe to HBO via a cable company that distributes HBO Max, then you can use your cable login to create an HBO Max user ID at HBOMax.com. Then you add a password to your HBO Max account. Then you can use that user ID and password to log into the HBO app on Roku and Fire TV (as well as the actual HBO Max app on other devices).


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## Noelmel (Nov 6, 2014)

Johnny Dancing said:


> Tivo Stream sounds like an intriguing option. I'll need to learn more about it and see if there is any integration between their streaming dongle and Tivo Bold DVR.


It doesn't sadly. There's many threads on it here

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## XIBM (Mar 9, 2013)

Johnny Dancing said:


> I have Amazon Fire TV along with a Bolt. Went to watch Perry Mason on HBO Go last night and got the message the app has been discontinued. It took me about 30 minutes to figure out how to side load HBO Max to fire TV. Fire TV is an Android device unlike Roku so this is a good option for Fire TV owners.
> 
> Tivo Stream sounds like an intriguing option. I'll need to learn more about it and see if there is any integration between their streaming dongle and Tivo Bold DVR.


On my fire 4k tonight I ask for Perry Mason and it ask if I wanted to start a free 7 day trial, I thought I already had a subscription from Amazon, I said yes and it started...


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## Christopher Reynolds (Sep 6, 2020)

Very disappointing that Tivo doesn't bother to work to get the HBO max to work on the Bolt! I'm not sure if it is worth renewing my Tivo subscription, I could just go to a FIOS DVR. 
I can get to HBO Max through my computer but then why bother having a Tivo DVR!


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## ManeJon (Apr 14, 2018)

HBO has to write their app to work with TIVO before TIVO can install it.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Christopher Reynolds said:


> Very disappointing that Tivo doesn't bother to work to get the HBO max to work on the Bolt! I'm not sure if it is worth renewing my Tivo subscription, I could just go to a FIOS DVR.
> I can get to HBO Max through my computer but then why bother having a Tivo DVR!


Tivo is a lousy streamer, always has been, you can do better with a $50 stick, they're different markets, I went with an Apple TV and it's a far better streamer, YMMV.
I can do lots of things on my computer that my Tivo can't, that doesn't make a Tivo a less capable DVR, besides my computer is a lousy DVR.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Christopher Reynolds said:


> Very disappointing that Tivo doesn't bother to work to get the HBO max to work on the Bolt! I'm not sure if it is worth renewing my Tivo subscription, I could just go to a FIOS DVR.
> I can get to HBO Max through my computer but then why bother having a Tivo DVR!


The Fire TV Recast seems to be the best option for integrating the interface of DVR and Streaming.


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## stevepow (Sep 3, 2014)

We use Apple TV for nearly everything now - rarely even watch the TiVo (with Xfinity) box. I just added HBO Max with that 12/mo deal from Xfinity and also had to use the Apple TV for that because no TiVo App. And with the Apple TV, I can't see a use for a TiVo stream - seems redundant.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

shwru980r said:


> The Fire TV Recast seems to be the best option for integrating the interface of DVR and Streaming.


Why would you want something that transcodes down and degrades the image? Bad enough some broadcasters are compressing the signal more to fit more content in their secondary channels. Don't need your dvr making it worse. Then again, some aren't that picky, so Amazon counts on those types of customers.

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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

Most streaming boxes/sticks, phones and tablets cannot view MPEG2-TS streams to begin with. It has to be transcoded to h.264 to reach those devices.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Saturn_V said:


> Most streaming boxes/sticks, phones and tablets cannot view MPEG2-TS streams to begin with. It has to be transcoded to h.264 to reach those devices.


Yeah. Although that's changing somewhat. I found that the Amlogic SoCs used in many of this year's Android TV devices, including the AirTV Mini, the TiVo Stream 4K, and the upcoming Google Chromecast with Google TV (aka "Sabrina"), all have native support for both MPEG-2 as well as TS files. So they should all be able to handle the raw TS output stream from an ATSC 1.0 tuner without the need for any transcoding.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> Yeah. Although that's changing somewhat. I found that the Amlogic SoCs used in many of this year's Android TV devices, including the AirTV Mini, the TiVo Stream 4K, and the upcoming Google Chromecast with Google TV (aka "Sabrina"), all have native support for both MPEG-2 as well as TS files. So they should all be able to handle the raw TS output stream from an ATSC 1.0 tuner without the need for any transcoding.


Given. The 2018 FireStick4K has MPEG-2 support. Same with the Nvidia Shield. Now even the latest Roku Ultras and RokuTVs have it, (a HD Home Run Roku channel was finally added last year)

But that still leaves mobiles/tablets out of the picture. And I'm using the Recast's ability to stream to my tablet/phone FireTV app a lot more than I ever anticipated- especially when inclement weather, T-storms and tornadoes roll in.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Saturn_V said:


> Most streaming boxes/sticks, phones and tablets cannot view MPEG2-TS streams to begin with. It has to be transcoded to h.264 to reach those devices.


TS4k plays them just fine within the Channels app. As does Roku, Apple tv and Fire OS. So nope., it doesn't. Only time Channels transcodes is when you're watching outside of your home.

Wouldn't care much on a tablet or phone since the screen is so tiny and even 480p looks good.

Sling has their new AirTV anywhere dvr, but I don't know if it transcodes or not. Guess whatever their app supports.

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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Saturn_V said:


> But that still leaves mobiles/tablets out of the picture. And I'm using the Recast's ability to stream to my tablet/phone FireTV app a lot more than I ever anticipated- especially when inclement weather, T-storms and tornadoes roll in.


Yeah, that used to be a problem. But I think the situation is changing there too. I have the HDHomeRun app on my Moto G6 (a 2-yr old midrange phone running Android 9) and it has no problem tuning in OTA channels from my HDHomeRun Connect in the native MPEG-2.TS format. (Has to be native, because the Connect doesn't transcode.) Even 1080i channels look good, so de-interlacing doesn't appear to be a problem. I don't know if that's because the SoC in this phone has hardware support for all that or if it's all being done in software. But it runs pretty smoothly, even trick play stuff, so I tend to think it's hardware-based.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Saturn_V said:


> Given. The 2018 FireStick4K has MPEG-2 support. Same with the Nvidia Shield. Now even the latest Roku Ultras and RokuTVs have it, (a HD Home Run Roku channel was finally added last year)
> 
> But that still leaves mobiles/tablets out of the picture. And I'm using the Recast's ability to stream to my tablet/phone FireTV app a lot more than I ever anticipated- especially when inclement weather, T-storms and tornadoes roll in.


Channels DVR will do mpeg2 on the home network and transcodes for out of home viewing. You control the settings.

And let's not forget, ATSC 3.0 is coming. Silicon Dust is already selling their ATSC 3.0 hdhomerun tuner. You'll get true 1080p broadcasts and better sound quality than you do now. I'm sure some scattered 4k will be there here and there. Doubtful it'll be the norm. But even true 1080p and better sound will be a big plus.

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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> I don't know if that's because the SoC in this phone has hardware support for all that or if it's all being done in software. But it runs pretty smoothly, even trick play stuff, so I tend to think it's hardware-based.


I used to have a G6. Its mainboard died on me two months ago. So minor heads-up.

I think it's software. MPEG-2 isn't listed on your device's stats.


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## Linda SD (Feb 4, 2017)

Christopher Reynolds said:


> Very disappointing that Tivo doesn't bother to work to get the HBO max to work on the Bolt! I'm not sure if it is worth renewing my Tivo subscription, I could just go to a FIOS DVR.
> I can get to HBO Max through my computer but then why bother having a Tivo DVR!


Is it even possible to get to HBO Max using a Tivo that doesn't list the HBO Max under add-ons? I have hulu, and added the HBO Max through it, but have had no luck trying to find out how to watch it on my TV. I can watch hulu just fine. The subscription kind of makes it sound like they're somehow linked, so I thought maybe if I logged onto hulu, there would be a way to go to HBO Max. Nope. HBO is listed under the add-ons, but after trying to log in there, I realized it's not the same. Can anyone offer any advice? Should I just cancel the HBO Max subscription? I don't want to watch the programs on my laptop.


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## Anotherpyr (May 6, 2015)

Linda SD said:


> Is it even possible to get to HBO Max using a Tivo that doesn't list the HBO Max under add-ons? I have hulu, and added the HBO Max through it, but have had no luck trying to find out how to watch it on my TV. I can watch hulu just fine. The subscription kind of makes it sound like they're somehow linked, so I thought maybe if I logged onto hulu, there would be a way to go to HBO Max. Nope. HBO is listed under the add-ons, but after trying to log in there, I realized it's not the same. Can anyone offer any advice? Should I just cancel the HBO Max subscription? I don't want to watch the programs on my laptop.


Either pick up a cheap stick like the Roku or Amazon Fire stick so you can stream both at better quality or cancel it. I doubt we will see much in the way of new apps on the TiVo.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

Anotherpyr said:


> Either pick up a cheap stick like the Roku or Amazon Fire stick so you can stream both at better quality or cancel it.


You still can't get HBOMAX for either platform. You can sideload the MAX app onto FireTV, not sure about Roku.

You can subscribe to *HBO* via Amazon Prime Channels- but you won't get the expanded HBO MAX content.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Here are your options. So dumb to start a service in 2020 and be so limited. Like the days when major apps and such were on iOS and not Android. Shame on HBO.









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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

dbpaddler said:


> Shame on HBO.


This is, of course, all about money.

I would put the shame on Roku and Amazon for not being willing to be neutral platforms (they want to collect your information so *they* can monetize it rather than just the service you are subscribing to). It is the same reason Peacock is not everywhere.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

dbpaddler said:


> Here are your options. So dumb to start a service in 2020 and be so limited. Like the days when major apps and such were on iOS and not Android. Shame on HBO.


Unfortunately for their users, neither Amazon nor Roku would agree to the same set of terms offered by HBO Max that all other distributors (Apple, Google, Comcast, Charter, Verizon, Hulu, etc.) agreed to before its launch. HBO Max's only choice at that point was to either cave in to Amazon and Roku's demands or go ahead and launch the service to apply increasing pressure on Amazon and Roku over time, as more and more of their users became aware of HBO Max and demanded it. Same applies to Peacock.

The longer this drags on, the more HBO subscribers I anticipate will cancel their billing through Amazon/Roku, then sign up and stream HBO Max through a different device. On Sept. 30, Google will unveil their new "Chromecast with Google TV" with 4K, Dolby Vision and voice remote that supports both HBO Max and Peacock; if it ends up selling for $50, as rumored, I expect a lot of current Roku and Fire TV Stick users to pick one up this holiday season. (HBO Max ought to strike a deal with Google to offer a free month of the service to folks who buy the new device.)

Meanwhile, Comcast confirmed back in May that an HBO Max app is coming to X1 and Flex (which already have the Peacock app, of course). I'd expect to see it show up for Comcast and Cox users before Christmas.

And as time goes on, more and more Max Originals and other exclusive shows will come to HBO Max that aren't on regular HBO. Eventually, they'll produce a breakthrough show like Hulu Originals had with The Handmaid's Tale, which will stir yet more interest in HBO Max and cause more folks to walk away from HBO via Amazon and Roku.

So I think HBO Max is waiting out Amazon and Roku. Time is on their side.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Kinda funny when Amazon holds out but apple says OK... Guess shame on them. I'll probably be one that cancels in the near future. 

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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

We need a device with HDMI inputs that will accept the input of other streaming devices and provide an integrated interface to access all of the devices.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

dbpaddler said:


> Why would you want something that transcodes down and degrades the image? Bad enough some broadcasters are compressing the signal more to fit more content in their secondary channels. Don't need your dvr making it worse. Then again, some aren't that picky, so Amazon counts on those types of customers.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


The recast records in MPEG-2 and transcodes during streaming. I probably wouldn't mind for most shows, but might notice it for sports. The other thing that makes a recast prohibitive is that Amazon will only let you have one recast per amazon account.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Anotherpyr said:


> Either pick up a cheap stick like the Roku or Amazon Fire stick so you can stream both at better quality or cancel it. I doubt we will see much in the way of new apps on the TiVo.


TiVo makes a $50 streamer that supports HBO Max...

TiVo Stream 4K | Make your favorite apps feel like TV


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> So I think HBO Max is waiting out Amazon and Roku. Time is on their side


HBO Max blinked first when they lowered the price from $14.99 to $11.99 (limited time offer) less than four months after launch. The Roku/FireTV user base is over 80 Million users they can't reach unless the consumers buy alternate devices *just for HBO MAX*

I don't think time is on HBO Max's side. Of HBO's total 36M subscribers, only 4M are HBO MAX. Q3 is not going to be encouraging, especially when you compare to Disney Plus' 50M subscribers in less than a year.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

shwru980r said:


> The recast records in MPEG-2 and transcodes during streaming. I probably wouldn't mind for most shows, but might notice it for sports. The other thing that makes a recast prohibitive is that Amazon will only let you have one recast per amazon account.


Don't know why the don't do what channels does. Play native in the home network and transcode outside of it. Seems like Amazon was lazy in their development. Would be an easy fix and make recast more viable. Though I still don't care to switch to fire devices around the house.

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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

dbpaddler said:


> Don't know why the don't do what channels does. Play native in the home network and transcode outside of it. Seems like Amazon was lazy in their development. Would be an easy fix and make recast more viable. Though I still don't care to switch to fire devices around the house.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


Other thing about the recast is that each recording is split into multiple files. I think only the 4K stick and the cube can play MPEG-2 and Amazon allows older Fire Tv devices to be used with the recast.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

shwru980r said:


> Other thing about the recast is that each recording is split into multiple files. I think only the 4K stick and the cube can play MPEG-2 and Amazon allows older Fire Tv devices to be used with the recast.


They could always put on their big boy pants and cut the cord to their old devices. They do enough trade in specials with credit. And 4k sticks are so dirt cheap at this point. I still have one sitting in plastic I just never cared to use. Paid a couple bucks for it after trading in an early Gen fire tablet worth about $3.

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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Saturn_V said:


> HBO Max blinked first when they lowered the price from $14.99 to $11.99 (limited time offer) less than four months after launch. The Roku/FireTV user base is over 80 Million users they can't reach unless the consumers buy alternate devices *just for HBO MAX*
> 
> I don't think time is on HBO Max's side. Of HBO's total 36M subscribers, only 4M are HBO MAX. Q3 is not going to be encouraging, especially when you compare to Disney Plus' 50M subscribers in less than a year.


Pretty sure that 4M figure is from a point when the HBO Go app was still available (or had just been pulled). The majority of HBO's subscribers come through a cable TV service, so if they care about streaming HBO (as opposed to just watching via their cable box), they'll find the HBO Max app now that HBO Go is gone.

Trying to compare HBO/HBO Max numbers to OTT-only services like Disney+ or Netflix is misleading because HBO originated in the world of cable TV -- it's pretty much THE original cable channel. And that's still how HBO subscribers tend to pay for and consume the service. Everyone who subscribes to HBO through AT&T, Comcast, Charter, Verizon, Cox -- just about any MVPD at this point -- is actually paying for and subscribed to HBO Max, regardless of whether they've used the new HBO Max app yet. So if you counted them, HBO Max is somewhere around 30 M subs -- basically all of them except the ones who pay through Amazon and Roku.

As for the lower $12/mo price for the first year, HBO Max actually did that for a couple months prior to launch too, back in the spring. That's how I signed up.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

For us Philly folk, PRISM was THE cable channel. And I believe the first one as kids we were trying to see some boobage through the scrambled signal, playing with the tuning dial until we could get it just right... Haha. The lengths we went to back then to see some T&A. 

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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

dbpaddler said:


> They could always put on their big boy pants and cut the cord to their old devices. They do enough trade in specials with credit. And 4k sticks are so dirt cheap at this point. I still have one sitting in plastic I just never cared to use. Paid a couple bucks for it after trading in an early Gen fire tablet worth about $3.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


As you pointed out, Amazon doesn't make much money from their hardware. They make their money selling content and merchandise. The hardware allows them the track the user and refine the ads to sell more content and merchandise. They aren't going to disrupt a loyal customer using an older device by making them upgrade to a new device that they don't profit from selling. High fidelity video is a niche market.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

shwru980r said:


> As you pointed out, Amazon doesn't make much money from their hardware. They make their money selling content and merchandise. The hardware allows them the track the user and refine the ads to sell more content and merchandise. They aren't going to disrupt a loyal customer using an older device by making them upgrade to a new device that they don't profit from selling. High fidelity video is a niche market.


It has to happen sooner or later. At some point in time they have to end support for old devices with old chipsets. Especially because of that fact. If you're not making money on hardware and have to support more types of hardware, that can't be cost effective after awhile. And if they can bring a better quality product to their customers with an uber cheap upgrade on the customer end...

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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

dbpaddler said:


> It has to happen sooner or later. At some point in time they have to end support for old devices with old chipsets. Especially because of that fact. If you're not making money on hardware and have to support more types of hardware, that can't be cost effective after awhile. And if they can bring a better quality product to their customers with an uber cheap upgrade on the customer end...
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


The customer can still upgrade, if they want to, but they are not forced to, so I think that the customer is more likely to stay with Amazon. Tivo refuses to provide support for legacy DVRs on their new 4k streaming device so retail customers are looking for another alternative. I don't like to be forced to upgrade, if the device can still satisfy my use cases.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

shwru980r said:


> The customer can still upgrade, if they want to, but they are not forced to, so I think that the customer is more likely to stay with Amazon. Tivo refuses to provide support for legacy DVRs on their new 4k streaming device so retail customers are looking for another alternative. I don't like to be forced to upgrade, if the device can still satisfy my use cases.


Well if it works like it should, the recast has to support both the mpeg2 and transcoding for out of the house viewing. At least that's how it should work ideally.. So there's no reason why the recast couldn't tell what device it's streaming to and send the appropriate version. You can adopt the new devices and take advantage of the better quality or sit on the old device and continue with the transcoded feed.

No forced upgrade.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

dbpaddler said:


> Well if it works like it should, the recast has to support both the mpeg2 and transcoding for out of the house viewing. At least that's how it should work ideally.. So there's no reason why the recast couldn't tell what device it's streaming to and send the appropriate version. You can adopt the new devices and take advantage of the better quality or sit on the old device and continue with the transcoded feed.
> 
> No forced upgrade.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


Yes, but not sure about the multiple files per recording. Not sure why they do that either.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

shwru980r said:


> Yes, but not sure about the multiple files per recording. Not sure why they do that either.


No clue. That's the first I heard of something like that.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

shwru980r said:


> We need a device with HDMI inputs that will accept the input of other streaming devices and provide an integrated interface to access all of the devices.


I think Caavo is supposed to do that.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

CommunityMember said:


> This is, of course, all about money...It is the same reason Peacock is not everywhere.


It's now going to be on Roku:
Peacock Gets On Roku As NBCU Avoids Blackout | Next TV


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## Noelmel (Nov 6, 2014)

^ Great news I hope HBO MAX follows too. Even though I’ve been using Apple TV and my Stream 4K for both so don’t really need it but have a brand new TCL Roku TV so be nice to have everything all in once place. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Anotherpyr (May 6, 2015)

Saturn_V said:


> You still can't get HBOMAX for either platform. You can sideload the MAX app onto FireTV, not sure about Roku.
> 
> You can subscribe to *HBO* via Amazon Prime Channels- but you won't get the expanded HBO MAX content.


Well crap. I figured if it was on Apple TV it would at least be on Roku. But I just checked and you're right. Here's the list they have on their web site.

Android phones and tablets (with Android OS 5+)
Android TV (OS 5+)
Apple TV (4th gen and later)
Chromebooks
Chromecast
iPhone, iPad, and iPod touch (with iOS 12.2+)
PC and Mac computers
PlayStation 4
Samsung TV (2016+)
Xbox One


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

What are financial arrangements between a smart tv and Att for HBO Max? Who pays who? I wish my LG had it as everything else I need has an app on the LG.


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

UCLABB said:


> What are financial arrangements between a smart tv and Att for HBO Max? Who pays who? I wish my LG had it as everything else I need has an app on the LG.


Typically(*), at least in the case of these smart devices, it is reportedly up to the content provider (in this case AT&T) to decide to spend the money to develop for and support the platform. Not all content providers will see sufficient additional revenue to justify supporting yet another platform(**), and even when they do, it is not uncommon that the content providers will prioritize the development process (the most popular get the app first...). In some cases the smart device vendor will pay a content provider to develop an app if the device vendor thinks it will drive sales of their device, but they, too, would be expected to make a ROI calculation.

This is the case where the size of the potential customer base matters a lot, or, to put it another way, as Apple has demonstrated, size does matter (more apps drives more sales which drives more apps which drives more sales....). I suspect the LG TV is a popular enough platform such that AT&T will eventually offer an HBO Max app, but only AT&T could answer the question as to when that might be. You should be asking AT&T every day ("Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?....") on their various user forums, or perhaps purchase a single share of common stock and show up at the stockholder(s) meeting and ask the question in person every year (I think that meeting tends to be in late April in Dallas TX most years (this year was webcast only)).

(*) Things get more complicated where the device has an app store which takes a cut of the revenue or requires that the user information or viewing habits be shared with the device vendor. Last I knew LG only verifies that the app means some basic standards, they don't require an app provider to give up their customer info nor a percentage of any revenue.

(**) While in some cases an app vendor can leverage some of the same underlying code base across platforms(***), in other cases one cannot, making the entire development in essence the equivalent of writing the entire app from the ground up, and then supporting it going forward in parallel.

(***) And that works well only when the development is in-house. If it is outsourced to different contracting firms that specialize in different platforms the app vendor gets to pay every different firm all over again for changes.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Anotherpyr said:


> Well crap. I figured if it was on Apple TV it would at least be on Roku. But I just checked and you're right. H


HBOMax is coming to the Roku, the post 3 before yours has a link to the agreement.


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## Noelmel (Nov 6, 2014)

dianebrat said:


> HBOMax is coming to the Roku, the post 3 before yours has a link to the agreement.


I think it's for Peacock but I can't keep track lol I hope they both do I have a Roku TV lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LynnL999 (Oct 7, 2002)

That's Peacock, not HBOMAX.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

dbpaddler said:


> For us Philly folk, PRISM was THE cable channel. And I believe the first one as kids we were trying to see some boobage through the scrambled signal, playing with the tuning dial until we could get it just right... Haha. The lengths we went to back then to see some T&A.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


Yea we had Prism here also on Service Electric. Service Electric was the first cable company in America to broadcast HBO on its system outside of Manhattan. It launched here at 7:30PM on November 8th 1972. For a number of years it was not scrambled so it existed between channel 6 and 7. A little adjustment on the tuner brought it in. Cinemax was also added and that channel would carry movies like Debbie does Dallas. These channels were finally scrambled in the late 1970s.
The infrastructure that carried Prism to the Allentown Service Electric is still in use today as it carries Comcast Sports Net.
PRISM (TV channel) - Wikipedia

HBO - Wikipedia


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Noelmel said:


> I think it's for Peacock but I can't keep track lol I hope they both do I have a Roku TV lol


Whoops, my bad, I can't keep the dysfunctional provider spats straight


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

dbpaddler said:


> For us Philly folk, PRISM was THE cable channel. And I believe the first one as kids we were trying to see some boobage through the scrambled signal, playing with the tuning dial until we could get it just right... Haha. The lengths we went to back then to see some T&A.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


One of my friends used to call that "watching the blue people" though Cinemax was prolly better for that than Prism. I remember an old promo commercial on Prism for the Sixers games with Mike Gminski shooting a skyhook aka "Gminski's touch".


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## ncbill (Sep 1, 2007)

Saturn_V said:


> HBO Max blinked first when they lowered the price from $14.99 to $11.99 (limited time offer) less than four months after launch. The Roku/FireTV user base is over 80 Million users they can't reach unless the consumers buy alternate devices *just for HBO MAX*
> 
> I don't think time is on HBO Max's side. Of HBO's total 36M subscribers, only 4M are HBO MAX. Q3 is not going to be encouraging, especially when you compare to Disney Plus' 50M subscribers in less than a year.


I've had no trouble side-loading both Peacock and HBOMax onto my FireTV sticks...


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

FireTV HBOMAX app coming tomorrow

"Alexa, open HBO Max" WarnerMedia announces HBO Max is coming to Amazon Fire TV and Fire tablets

HBO Max is Coming to Fire TV


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Good news. Hopefully Roku coming soon, as well; if not, more Chromecasts w/ Google TV may be on our horizon.


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

I would think this would be a good incentive for them to work out a deal with roku now. This puts roku at a serious disadvantage.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> Good news. Hopefully Roku coming soon, as well;


It's STILL missing from X1 as well...even though Comcast & TW came to a carriage agreement for HBOMAX quite awhile ago...


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

What's the point of the HBO app. No4k and no Atmos. Whee!! State of the fart!!


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

mattyro7878 said:


> What's the point of the HBO app. No4k and no Atmos. Whee!! State of the fart!!


I don't care about either. The Undoing looks and sounds perfectly fine in 1080 and 5.1.

Sent from my Surface Duo using Tapatalk


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

crap another streaming service to pay for


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## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

Warner Bros. will launch every 2021 movie on HBO Max at the same time they hit theaters



> AT&T's Warner Bros. announced Thursday that all of its films scheduled to launch in 2021 will be released on HBO Max at the same time they are available in theaters. It's currently a one-year plan.
> 
> AMC shares closed down nearly 16% on the news.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

mattyro7878 said:


> What's the point of the HBO app. No4k and no Atmos. Whee!! State of the fart!!


https://www.fiercevideo.com/video/wonder-woman-1984-will-be-first-4k-title-hbo-max?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTm1JeVpUY3hNelF6TURKaiIsInQiOiJQTGtvMzE1ekpGNXNqRUJJdXlLTEVNOGc4VGxJZzFzcWdBV1ZMMWduREY5U2c1TDkrVGw3a1RNQWF4dWUySU9BWUZFblNBUUxIdmFKZ0pjUmpHcG5ncmNVcG1zbXZ5Q3Ntblp2XC9hUmtkS0NNZDM3YXFGYTFFRjdVdU5wUDRMVU8ifQ==&mrkid=4540169


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

Johncv said:


> https://www.fiercevideo.com/video/wonder-woman-1984-will-be-first-4k-title-hbo-max?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTm1JeVpUY3hNelF6TURKaiIsInQiOiJQTGtvMzE1ekpGNXNqRUJJdXlLTEVNOGc4VGxJZzFzcWdBV1ZMMWduREY5U2c1TDkrVGw3a1RNQWF4dWUySU9BWUZFblNBUUxIdmFKZ0pjUmpHcG5ncmNVcG1zbXZ5Q3Ntblp2XC9hUmtkS0NNZDM3YXFGYTFFRjdVdU5wUDRMVU8ifQ==&mrkid=4540169


And all of the movies they'll be releasing next year will have 4k HDR DolbyVision and Atmos. If this doesn't get them and Roku to get the app on that platform nothing will.


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

alyssa said:


> crap another streaming service to pay for





alyssa said:


> crap another streaming service to pay for


I have it free through my tv provider.


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## Noelmel (Nov 6, 2014)

alyssa said:


> crap another streaming service to pay for


I pay for pretty much every streaming service and find myself watching hbo max the most. But that being said I've never had hbo thru cable so haven't seen most of their catalog

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

alyssa said:


> crap another streaming service to pay for


Yeah, got an eye roll from my wife last night when I said we'd have to subscribe, at least intermittently. Lol


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

tim_m said:


> And all of the movies they'll be releasing next year will have 4k HDR DolbyVision and Atmos. If this doesn't get them and Roku to get the app on that platform nothing will.


It is about money (well, it is always about money), and who "owns" the customer, which is not only about the subscription fees, and any tax the platform applies to the subscription fees, but also about the money to be made with customer data, and the entire user experience (is the app front and center, or is the platform). Amazon apparently blinked (they are removing HBO from their channels list on the FireTV), and AT&T/WarnerMedia obviously expects Roku to do the same. Only time will tell if the two sides will reach an agreement, but Roku is now facing a clear deadline in only a few weeks when WW84 is released on-demand, which will only get worse into 2021.


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## pkincy (Sep 23, 2006)

As time goes on Tivo loses any advantage it ever had. Yes, it is a slightly better DVR but since it doesn't get the many On Demand channels that Cable TV offers today and has no real support for the different Streaming Apps, it is becoming yesterday's cool device and today's worthless paperweight that we pay over $100 a year for.


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## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)




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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

pkincy said:


> As time goes on Tivo loses any advantage it ever had. Yes, it is a slightly better DVR but since it doesn't get the many On Demand channels that Cable TV offers today and has no real support for the different Streaming Apps, it is becoming yesterday's cool device and today's worthless paperweight that we pay over $100 a year for.


Well your first problem right there is you pay for tivo via a subscription.

And as time goes on? Tivo's time has already come and gone with a complete lack of innovation over the past so many years, and doing what was necessary to keep their dvr side relavant. When they're embracing android on the cable operator side while they leave their dvr side out to rot under the sun, the writing has been on the wall for a while.

Sent from my Surface Duo using Tapatalk


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

CommunityMember said:


> It is about money (well, it is always about money), and who "owns" the customer, which is not only about the subscription fees, and any tax the platform applies to the subscription fees, but also about the money to be made with customer data, and the entire user experience (is the app front and center, or is the platform). Amazon apparently blinked (they are removing HBO from their channels list on the FireTV), and AT&T/WarnerMedia obviously expects Roku to do the same. Only time will tell if the two sides will reach an agreement, but Roku is now facing a clear deadline in only a few weeks when WW84 is released on-demand, which will only get worse into 2021.


I understand that, i do hope this gives both sides an incentive to come to an agreement.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

CommunityMember said:


> It is about money (well, it is always about money), and who "owns" the customer, which is not only about the subscription fees, and any tax the platform applies to the subscription fees, but also about the money to be made with customer data, and the entire user experience (is the app front and center, or is the platform). Amazon apparently blinked (they are removing HBO from their channels list on the FireTV), and AT&T/WarnerMedia obviously expects Roku to do the same. Only time will tell if the two sides will reach an agreement, but Roku is now facing a clear deadline in only a few weeks when WW84 is released on-demand, which will only get worse into 2021.


Yep. Couple things I'd add: in addition to the issue of UI/data collection, it's also about ad revenue. Some kind of cheaper, ad-supported tier for HBO Max is supposed to become available in 2021 and Roku wants a piece of the ad inventory.

And with regard to the first issue of UI/data collection, HBO Max is clearly willing (unlike Netflix) to play nice with streaming platforms' aggregated UIs that commingle and deep-link to content from various services. They fully participate with the TV app on Apple TV, with Google TV on the new Chromecast, and with the TiVo Stream app on the TiVo Stream 4K.

If Roku wanted, they could roll out their own such aggregated UI. Instead, they only offer their Roku Channel app, which instead of linking to content inside third-party apps only offers free and paid content streaming from Roku's own servers. My guess is that eventually, the Roku Channel app on Roku devices will also aggregate and link to content in other apps too, making it very similar to Apple TV's TV app.


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

Signed up for a free trial, and after just one episode of Friends, I already don't like the app. There's no way to turn off auto play. I hate auto play with a passion.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

NashGuy said:


> Yep. Couple things I'd add: in addition to the issue of UI/data collection, it's also about ad revenue. Some kind of cheaper, ad-supported tier for HBO Max is supposed to become available in 2021 and Roku wants a piece of the ad inventory.
> 
> And with regard to the first issue of UI/data collection, HBO Max is clearly willing (unlike Netflix) to play nice with streaming platforms' aggregated UIs that commingle and deep-link to content from various services. They fully participate with the TV app on Apple TV, with Google TV on the new Chromecast, and with the TiVo Stream app on the TiVo Stream 4K.
> 
> If Roku wanted, they could roll out their own such aggregated UI. Instead, they only offer their Roku Channel app, which instead of linking to content inside third-party apps only offers free and paid content streaming from Roku's own servers. My guess is that eventually, the Roku Channel app on Roku devices will also aggregate and link to content in other apps too, making it very similar to Apple TV's TV app.


Is there really anything exclusive to Roku that gives them a distinct worthwhile edge over the other streaming platforms? Because if I'm HBO, I tell them to pound sand. This is our offer. If you don't like it, I'm sure many Roku HBO subscribers will just drop $40 and leave for another streamingr platform. No sweat off our back.

Sent from my Surface Duo using Tapatalk


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

dbpaddler said:


> Is there really anything exclusive to Roku that gives them a distinct worthwhile edge over the other streaming platforms? Because if I'm HBO, I tell them to pound sand. This is our offer. If you don't like it, I'm sure many Roku HBO subscribers will just drop $40 and leave for another streamingr platform. No sweat off our back.
> 
> Sent from my Surface Duo using Tapatalk


Nothing exclusive. Just tens of millions of entrenched users who don't want to change.


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## dahacker (Jan 14, 2004)

dbpaddler said:


> Is there really anything exclusive to Roku that gives them a distinct worthwhile edge over the other streaming platforms? Because if I'm HBO, I tell them to pound sand. This is our offer. If you don't like it, I'm sure many Roku HBO subscribers will just drop $40 and leave for another streaming platform. No sweat off our back.


Roku is the most popular streaming platform out there and has 46 million subscribers, so there is that little bit of leverage. As far as streaming with newer apps on the roamio and bolt, I'm not sure why I would bother worrying about that when better streaming devices are available for $30 or less.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

ncted said:


> Nothing exclusive. Just tens of millions of entrenched users who don't want to change.


Well, the only thing that is constant in this world is change. Do they really not want to change because it's Roku? Or is it because it's just what they've known, and it really doesn't matter to them. So if push came to shove, they'd give another platform a go.
Many were entrenched tivo users, but when they wanted to do certain things tivo was not capable of doing, they eventually left. I'd like to think tivo brought more to the dvr platform than Roku does to the streaming platform.

Things change. HBO could just be the first to play hardball. Others could follow down the road as the content providers evolve.

Sent from my Surface Duo using Tapatalk


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

dahacker said:


> Roku is the most popular streaming platform out there and has 46 million subscribers, so there is that little bit of leverage. As far as streaming with newer apps on the roamio and bolt, I'm not sure why I would bother worrying about that when better streaming devices are available for $30 or less.


I imagine you're not replying to me about the roamio and bolt. I ditched mine already and have already stated it's fruitless to wish and hope for anything new on either.

Sent from my Surface Duo using Tapatalk


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

ncted said:


> Nothing exclusive. Just tens of millions of entrenched users who don't want to change.





dbpaddler said:


> Well, the only thing that is constant in this world is change. Do they really not want to change because it's Roku? Or is it because it's just what they've known, and it really doesn't matter to them. So if push came to shove, they'd give another platform a go.


There's this pervasive belief that among some users if you have Roku, you don't need anything else. They were the first to market with a set top box in 2008, and a lot have simply stuck with them for over a decade because they didn't need anything else.

I've never had just *one* stb/streaming stick. At one time, I had as many as four (not counting Tivo) methods to stream NFLX, HULU, and AMAZ. There are always going to be "service gaps." I still can't get VUDU on my FireSticks without sideloading, and I still can't get AppleTV+ on my Nvidia Shields. One ring does not rule them all.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

dbpaddler said:


> Well, the only thing that is constant in this world is change. Do they really not want to change because it's Roku? Or is it because it's just what they've known, and it really doesn't matter to them. So if push came to shove, they'd give another platform a go.
> Many were entrenched tivo users, but when they wanted to do certain things tivo was not capable of doing, they eventually left. I'd like to think tivo brought more to the dvr platform than Roku does to the streaming platform.
> 
> Things change. HBO could just be the first to play hardball. Others could follow down the road as the content providers evolve.
> ...


Yeah, I think a lot of people think Roku is just all there is or all they need. Most people, including my wife, don't like changing the user interfaces they deal with on a regular basis. Once they've gotten used to one, there had better be a really good reason to switch.


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

dbpaddler said:


> Is there really anything exclusive to Roku that gives them a distinct worthwhile edge over the other streaming platforms? Because if I'm HBO, I tell them to pound sand. This is our offer. If you don't like it, I'm sure many Roku HBO subscribers will just drop $40 and leave for another streamingr platform. No sweat off our back.


Roku may also have to protect their other revenue streams as part of the negotiations. Should AT&T get a special deal, all the other content owners will ask for the same, and if those other content owners lawyers are any good (and content company lawyers tend to be because this ain't their first rodeo) there are "most favorite nation" clauses that could hit Roku immediately if they are not really careful with AT&T (there are sometimes ways to finesse the contracts to avoid impacting others, but private contract details are never known by the rest of us).


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

ncted said:


> Nothing exclusive. Just tens of millions of entrenched users who don't want to change.


Yep. Recently read that HBO/HBO Max's US subscriber base has grown to about 38-39 million. Based on all the reported data I've seen, I'd bet that Roku handles the billing for less than 2 million of those subs. But, in addition to them, there are certainly millions more who pay through another provider (Comcast, Charter, Amazon, Apple, etc.) but use the HBO or Prime Video app on Roku for at least part of their HBO viewing.

A large majority of HBO subs still subscribe through a traditional cable TV operator and so can watch and record the HBO linear channels on their cable box, and can likely also access HBO OnDemand on that box too. And it looks like the actual HBO Max app, with its 2x larger library, will be coming to Comcast X1 and Flex boxes this month. (Perhaps Cox Contour 2 boxes will get it this month too, since they run the X1 OS.) Between that development, plus the addition of the HBO Max app to Fire TV (with the new Fire TV Stick Lite selling for just $18 right now), along with the new Chromecast with Google TV selling for $50, *plus* the ability of iPhone and iPad users to cast HBO Max to recent 4K-capable Rokus via AirPlay, well, I can't see Warner budging very much in their negotiations with Roku. The app in on just about everything, even Xbox and PS 4. About the only platforms still missing are Roku and smart TVs by LG and Vizio.

If the HBO app and the HBO add-on in the Roku Channel were to both completely disappear from all Roku devices in Jan., I don't think it would result in all that many losses of HBO subscriptions. Maybe 1 million. My guess is that Roku would lose more active users than that (in addition to the loss of subscription revenue they get for the HBO subs they currently bill $15/mo for).


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

ncted said:


> Nothing exclusive. Just tens of millions of entrenched users who don't want to change.


And who don't care about HBO Max either.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

alyssa said:


> crap another streaming service to pay for


It is free if you already have HBO (at least that true for Comcast people)


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

trip1eX said:


> And who don't care about HBO Max either.


The Warner Brothers movie deal kinda makes it worth it. Especially for those of us with decent theater room setups. Cost wise with friends or family over, it pretty much pays for itself.

Sent from my Surface Duo using Tapatalk


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

trip1eX said:


> And who don't care about HBO Max either.


Not really sure about how many that is either way. The addition of Airplay functionality which allowed casting of HBOMax to Roku sure seemed to make a lot of people on reddit and AVSForums happy, but that could just be a vocal minority. Of course, now Roku is in a dispute with Charter, so they are turning out to look like the bad guys lately.

Latest Streaming TV Blackout Has Roku Removing the Charter Spectrum App - Telecompetitor


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

The HBO Max app is arriving today on Comcast's X1 and Flex boxes.

HBO Max Available Directly on Comcast Xfinity X1, Flex Set-Tops - Variety

X1/Flex is becoming a strong streaming platform. They recently added CBS All Access (to become Paramount+ next year) and, of course, Peacock. The platform also has apps for Netflix, Prime Video, YouTube, YouTube Kids, Pluto TV, Tubi, Xumo, Spotify, Pandora, Amazon Music, AMC+, Acorn TV, and CuriosityStream, along with lots of smaller niche services. Disney+ and ESPN apps are coming in early '21. And the native Xfinity platform offers the full on-demand libraries for Showtime, Starz, Epix and Cinemax if you subscribe to them through Xfinity.

About the only things missing are apps for Apple TV and Apple Music. No announcement has been made yet about the upcoming discovery+ being on X1/Flex but I'd be surprised if it didn't happen next year.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

lessd said:


> It is free if you already have HBO (at least that true for Comcast people)


Yes. If you pay for HBO through any company other than Roku, you should have access to the HBO Max app included at no additional cost as part of your subscription.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> The HBO Max app is arriving today on Comcast's X1 and Flex boxes. ... They recently added CBS All Access (to become Paramount+ next year) and, of course, Peacock. The platform also has apps for Netflix, Prime Video, YouTube, YouTube Kids, Pluto TV, Tubi, Xumo, Spotify, Pandora, Amazon Music, AMC+, Acorn TV, and CuriosityStream, along with lots of smaller niche services. Disney+ and ESPN apps are coming in early '21. And the native Xfinity platform offers the full on-demand libraries for Showtime, Starz, Epix and Cinemax if you subscribe to them through Xfinity.


Is there some website that acts as a clearinghouse for comparing streaming boxes, by functionality and available apps?


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Is there some website that acts as a clearinghouse for comparing streaming boxes, by functionality and available apps?


There are probably several. Here's one handy table (although note that it does not include Android TV):

Streaming Media Players: A Comparison Chart

If there's something particular you're wondering, just ask.

Here's what's missing where among the major SVODs: HBO Max isn't on Roku (only the regular HBO app). Peacock isn't on Fire TV. The Apple TV app isn't on Android TV or Chromecast. That leaves Apple TV as the only platform among the big 5 retail streamers to have all the major SVODs.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NashGuy said:


> There are probably several. Here's one handy table (although note that it does not include Android TV):
> 
> Streaming Media Players: A Comparison Chart
> 
> ...


The complexity goes far beyond that table.

For those of us who care, it becomes a game of whack-a-mole trying to keep track of which app on which device supports Dolby Vision and/or HDR10 video and Dolby Digital+/Dolby Atmos audio on a given app.

On my main setup, I am using a 2018 vintage Roku Ultra for Apple TV+ and Amazon Prime Video (both w/Atmos but no DV, although the newer Ultra does support DV); an Amazon FireTV Stick 4K for HBO Max and SHO (DV and DD+), and a Chromecast with Google TV for Netflix (DV + Atmos). Accessing those apps on any of the other devices causes me to lose one or both of those features.


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

NashGuy said:


> The HBO Max app is arriving today on Comcast's X1 and Flex boxes.
> 
> HBO Max Available Directly on Comcast Xfinity X1, Flex Set-Tops - Variety
> 
> ...


HBO MAX actually isn't 'functional' - as of 11:45 PM EST 12/15 on my XG1V4 I was still being presented the 'PROMOTIONAL INFO - coming soon. The CBS AA did make it 'LIVE' recently {maybe today) on the X1 devices. I don't check frequently but I followed up after seeing your 'PROMOTIONAL contribution. I had an unusual experience with an attempt to use it with my Apple TV credentials. Somewhat strange experience. I do CBS AA & Showtime using ATV+ subscription, both for total of $10 CBS AA 'commercial free'. Live CBS AA took me to KWCH12.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> There are probably several. Here's one handy table (although note that it does not include Android TV):
> 
> Streaming Media Players: A Comparison Chart
> 
> ...


Follow-up: Google announced today (12/16) that the Apple TV app will be coming to their new Chromecast with Google TV "early next year" and should be available to additional Android TV devices later in 2021.

The Apple TV app is on its way to Chromecast with Google TV


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

HBOMAX coming to Roku. App goes live tomorrow.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

As I predicted would happen if they ever reached a deal, Roku caved on what was Warner's no-compromise red line, that the additional "Max" content from HBO Max reside exclusively in the HBO Max app. Roku wanted to include the entire service inside The Roku Channel. Instead, it appears that HBO will completely cease to be available as an option in The Roku Channel, just as it will disappear from within the Prime Video app as an add-on Amazon Channel next year. (Unlike Amazon and Roku, Apple never even put up a fight about this, immediately removing HBO from Apple TV Channels when HBO Max launched.)

HBO Max Is Finally Coming to Roku - Variety


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tim_m said:


> HBOMAX coming to Roku. App goes live tomorrow.


Figures. I just started initializing a batch of Google Chromecasts that I'd picked-up to provide access.


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

NashGuy said:


> As I predicted , it appears


Pure speculation - your part I assume!!!

Your 'Variety sourcing' seems to often not reveal all!!! They've got you convinced though!


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

WVZR1 said:


> Pure speculation - your part I assume!!!
> 
> Your 'Variety sourcing' seems to often not reveal all!!! They've got you convinced though!


You are certified crazy. (!!!)


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Figures. I just started initializing a batch of Google Chromecasts that I'd picked-up to provide access.


Ah well. The new Chromecast with Google TV looks very nice and, once the Apple TV app arrives early next year, will have all the major apps. I'm giving one as a Christmas gift although I use an Apple TV 4K myself.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

NashGuy said:


> (Unlike Amazon and Roku, Apple never even put up a fight about this, immediately removing HBO from Apple TV Channels when HBO Max launched.)


I guess Apple's attitude is, " if they don't want to be on ATV Channels then we must be doing something wrong. They'll come back if we make the experience great for customers."

That or "we aren't the market leader in this space and we aren't a close #2 either."


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

trip1eX said:


> I guess Apple's attitude is, " if they don't want to be on ATV Channels then we must be doing something wrong. They'll come back if we make the experience great for customers."
> 
> That or "we aren't the market leader in this space and we aren't a close #2 either."


Well, Apple hadn't been running ATV Channels for all that long when they entered negotiations with Warner over distribution of HBO Max. So it wasn't like it was a big established business for them. I'm sure they didn't have nearly as many HBO subs via their Channels platform as Amazon does on theirs, or even Roku on theirs.

The whole concept of Channels-type distribution, where a content provider turns over their library to a third party for them to encode and stream from their own servers inside their own app/UI, is really for second-tier services that are so hungry for subscribers that they're willing to make that move, in addition to operating their service via their own direct-to-consumer app (e.g. Showtime, Starz), or a start-up/third-tier service that doesn't even want to operate their own app (e.g. AMC+, PBS Living, etc.).


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NashGuy said:


> Ah well. The new Chromecast with Google TV looks very nice and, once the Apple TV app arrives early next year, will have all the major apps. I'm giving one as a Christmas gift although I use an Apple TV 4K myself.


If you are a Netflix subscriber, you should spring (as I did) for the $89.99 CCGTV bundle that includes $83.94 in Netflix credits. Not including sales tax, that's just a $6 investment for what is a pretty nifty little streaming device.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

chiguy50 said:


> If you are a Netflix subscriber, you should spring (as I did) for the $89.99 CCGTV bundle that includes $83.94 in Netflix credits. Not including sales tax, that's just a $6 investment for what is a pretty nifty little streaming device.


Max 3 purchased per Google account, and up to 3 credits can be applied per Netflix account, I believe. (So, yeah, not too painful a hit, even if we only use them for Kodi.)


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

trip1eX said:


> Agreements will be made.


YOu were right.


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## All-In (Jul 4, 2020)

Any new news on this? I don't have a Stream, I have a Bolt (and an older s3).

I have an HBO Max account but no company provided cable box (nor do I want one). Up until now, my Bolt did everything the set top box did, and more (and better).

Is there any news about the Bolt getting access to HBO Max?

Thanks


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

All-In said:


> Any new news on this? I don't have a Stream, I have a Bolt (and an older s3).
> 
> I have an HBO Max account but no company provided cable box (nor do I want one). Up until now, my Bolt did everything the set top box did, and more (and better).
> 
> Is there any news about the Bolt getting access to HBO Max?


There's no news/announcements about it. But it is highly unlikely that an HBO Max app -- or any other new app -- will ever be released for traditional TiVo DVRs like the Bolt and Edge. Even the old HBO/HBO Go app has now been removed from the TiVo platform.

TiVo themselves seem to have abandoned their traditional app platform, having adopted Android TV and its Google Play app store for both their new cable (IPTV) operator-supplied boxes as well as their newest retail device (the TiVo Stream 4K). App developers can only support apps for so many platforms and the TiVo platform is small and dwindling. So it's very unlikely that apps for HBO Max, Disney+, Showtime, Starz, discovery+ or the upcoming Paramount+ will ever come to TiVo DVRs. And at some point (if it hasn't already happened), we'll see Hulu, Amazon Prime Video and even Netflix stop updating their TiVo apps and eventually pull them completely. But hopefully that's still a couple years or more off.


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## MichaelAinNB (Dec 28, 2013)

NashGuy said:


> Even the old HBO/HBO Go app has now been removed from the TiVo platform.


I'm considering purchasing the 2TB Edge and I see HBO Go is one of the apps included.


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

MichaelAinNB said:


> I'm considering purchasing the 2TB Edge and I see HBO Go is one of the apps included.


Not anymore

https://support.tivo.com/articles/Essential_Summary/Video-on-Demand-Essentials

TiVo's website pages are notoriously outdated and don't get updated in timely fashion when things change. You need to go into the fine print that I linked above.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Time to unsunscribe to this. People living in a fantasy world thinking any new or updated streaming apps are coming to the platform.









Sent from my Surface Duo using Tapatalk


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

dbpaddler said:


> Time to unsunscribe to this. People living in a fantasy world thinking any new or updated streaming apps are coming to the platform.


Well, so long as somebody's around to set 'em straight.


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