# Two computers - two problems



## difelma (Feb 16, 2008)

I currently update my TiVo via my desktop computer (running XP) which is set-up with cabled ICS. I connect to a dialup service to the internet and force the update of data which works fine.

However, I now have 3 broadband using a Huawei E220 usb modem and would like to use this for my downloads to enable me to junk my dial up service but the connection fails when I try to use the Huawei. Initially I didn't change any settings as I am not running a firewall on this machine but I have since set the Windows firewall to allow Telnet through even though the firewall isn't enabled. Unsurprisingly this hasn't made a difference. Can anyone help?

My second problem is that I have just upgraded to a laptop running Windows Vista and I cannot even connect up to my TiVo from this machine as I consistently get a port 23 error. I have enabled my firewall to let the IP address, telnet and port 23 through and have tried switching the firewall off completely - no joy!. I then found a couple of similar problems on the forum and tried the fixes that were recommended (that worked for the guys asking) alas - still no joy. I suspect that if I ever do get the laptop to recognise TiVo I will have the same connection failure as above but can't test it for sure until I can get the port accepted.

I don't care if I only get one machine to successfully download - if only I can get that far!

I am quite clueless on the subjects of telnet and communications settings so if anyone does have any ideas presume idiot when explaining................ 

Thanks guys


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## johala_reewi (Oct 30, 2002)

You need to take a deep breath and pause. Then explain clearly what you are trying to do.

Is it someting like...

1. Current setup is desktop PC running XP to the internet via dial up line (not broadband?) and Tivo to PC via a cable. Tivo can access the internet via the PC using ICS provided you have first got an internet connection on the PC. This is working.

2. New setup is PC connected to the internet via a 3G USB dongle. This is not working (that is, the PC cannot connect to the 3G network)?

3. You also have a notebook PC running Vista. You would like to access Tivo from the Vista notebook but can't?


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## difelma (Feb 16, 2008)

Thanks for taking me at my word....... http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/images/smilies/smile.gif


Ok you're close in your synopsis -

1) You have it spot on. Broadband isn't available where I live hence the 3G modem. I would like to get rid of my telephone line but can't until I can find an alternative to dialup for downloading my TiVo data

2) The XP PC connects fine to the internet via the dongle and I can do everything that I can do when connected via dialup EXCEPT download my TiVo data - it goes through the full cycle housekeeping etc but fails when it tries to connect. This used to happen when I first set the link up until I switched the firewall off so there is no firewall in the equation now.http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/images/smilies/confused.gif


3) Correct - I am unable to open port 23 on the Vista laptop. As with the XP PC I can use the internet via the dongle without problem.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

RE - 2 - Do you need to set up Internet Connection Sharing again for the new 3G modem?
Have any of the IP configurations changed. If both connections (dailup and 3G) are still 'available' in XP then ICS may be offering 2 different gateway addresses one for dialup and one for 3G. If Tivo is set to connect to the dialup IP but that isn't connected then Tivo will be 'calling' the PC but not getting out to the Internet.

Bear in mind that a UK Tivo can't do DHCP so it won't be picking up a new IP address from the XP computer. You may need to change the settings for ICS for the 3G modem to those used by the dialup modem to get Tivo to see the connection.

Sorry if this is confusing ICS isn't something I'm experienced with but multiple network connections can be very complicated.


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## difelma (Feb 16, 2008)

No worries - it's all confusing to me. Thanks for your input. I did try setting up the 3G connection with the same IP address as the dialup with no joy but I didn't take those details out of the dialup so would there have been any sort of conflict? Bearing in mind that only one connection would be live at any given time.

I know with the world of broadband and wireless that ICS is a fairly unknown quantity in the scheme of things - but having techie knowledge still puts you ahead of me - so all suggestions are gratefully received. I'm confident it's going to be the usual story of trial and error until the right mix works.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

ICS works by allowing your XP computer to act as a router for your internet connection.
It makes an IP 'telephone' number available for all the other computers in your home to 'call' to get to the Internet.
In essence your Tivo 'calls' the XP IP number and is then given access to the Internet. As far as Tivo is concerned all the listings data is coming directly from the XP machine - it doesn't know about the network steps beyond that computer.
The IP number configured on the Tivo is the 'default gateway' i.e. when Tivo wants an internet connection try this number first which will be the number assigned to the IP address related to the dial up ICS.

If both ICS connections are available at the same time - even if they're not both connected externally - they will need unique IP addresses so that the XP computer can distinguish between 'calls' for each different route to the Internet.

If you gave both the same IP number for Tivo to 'call' then the XP computer may do nothing or offer both - either of which will confuse the issue and stop it working.

If you can set the IP address that the XP machine uses internally for the 3G to the same number as the dialup and set the dialup connection to a different IP.
e.g. if the dial up is currently set to 192.168.1.0 set it to 192.168.0.1 and the 3G connection to 192.168.1.0

You will have to get a working connection to the Tivo internally to change it's default gateway and it's probably easier to make changes in ICS. If you really goof the Tivo settings you can have to pull the drive and connect it to a PC to restore settings (I speak from bitter typo laden experience!).

Good luck!


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## difelma (Feb 16, 2008)

That's brilliant thanks I'll give it a try tonight and pray that it really is that straightforward (when is it ever?!?). Warch this space...............


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## difelma (Feb 16, 2008)

Or watch even - I see what you mean about those typos


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## difelma (Feb 16, 2008)

Well I've tried that and sadly, it didn't work but I did discover that although the 3G connection allows me to specify an IP address the next time I go into the properties it has reverted to automatic. I have full administrator rights so it's not that. I don't know if this is relevant at all?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

difelma said:


> Well I've tried that and sadly, it didn't work but I did discover that although the 3G connection allows me to specify an IP address the next time I go into the properties it has reverted to automatic. I have full administrator rights so it's not that. I don't know if this is relevant at all?


Sounds like my Mother's Be Box where I can set up port forwarding to her Tivo in the firmware and then when there is next a power off on the Be Box (Thomson 780 with Be bespoke firmware)it loses the details of the port forwarding.

These large corporates often have crazed ideas about preventing the end users meddling. Could this be down to the Three 3g dongle?


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## difelma (Feb 16, 2008)

Yep - I'm just onto the ever-helpful 3 "technical support" and they're telling me that a static IP address is not possible with their service! Bless!!!! 

So presumably this leaves me unable to use the 3G modem to update my TiVo data!

Is there anyway I can download the data onto another PC that's not connected to my TiVo and then transfer it over separately? (Yes I know I'm sounding desperate here but there's a good reason for that.........)


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## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

difelma said:


> Well I've tried that and sadly, it didn't work but I did discover that although the 3G connection allows me to specify an IP address the next time I go into the properties it has reverted to automatic. I have full administrator rights so it's not that. I don't know if this is relevant at all?


OK, I might be talking complete rubbish here because I havent networked my Tivo yet, only had it for about 6 years so havent had time LOL

I do however have a 3G Modem from those nice people at Three and listen to American radio stations via my laptop in the car 

The 3G modem is automatically assigned an IP address when it connect and you cant change that.

Previously I have shared a Wifi connection in a hotel with another laptop so that is basically what you are trying to do with the 3G modem as well.

Again in that case the Wifi card was DHCP.

Windows Internet Connection Sharing forces you to set the network port on the host PC to 192.168.0.1 and all PCs sharing that connection must be on the 192.168.0.xxx subnet.

Remember that unless you use a Hub you will need a CROSSOVER cable to connect two machines together be it two PC or a PC and Tivo.

I would imagine that as long as Tivo has a 192.168.0.xxx IP address and a Gateway and DNS seting of 192.168.0.1 it should work after all that is effectively what happens with any ADSL router which is how the Host PC is acting.

Like I said, based on theory as I havent networked Tivo. I also havent networked my 3G modem yet but that is in the "todo" list so the kids can share the mobile connection in the car.

One thing I have noticed is that very occasionally I do get a duff connection on the 3G modem and cant connect to things but disconnecting and reconnecting usually fixes it.

Will try ICS using the 3G modem tomorrow and see if I can share the connection with another PC and report back. (would do it tonight but just back from two very long days away and am knackered!)

Hope that helps

Keith


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

difelma said:


> Yep - I'm just onto the ever-helpful 3 "technical support" and they're telling me that a static IP address is not possible with their service! Bless!!!! .......)


Are they saying a static internal network address is not possible? You don't need a static IP addess with the outside world to use a Tivo.

I believe there is something that emulates a proper router that you can put your 3 data SIM card in to and then plug in your Tivo to the router (which supports DHCP etc) as normal.

Is one of these perhaps what you need?

See www.nextag.co.uk/Linksys-WRT54G3G-U...ices-html?nxtg=161880a240534-D78F133D85485697

However a crossover network cable and ICS as suggested by katman sounds like a cheaper solution.


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## difelma (Feb 16, 2008)

Well as I've said before - all help is very welcome - and getting more so everyday. I've had my beloved TiVo eight years and only networked when lightning took out the internal modem! 

Being, as I am, a definite layperson in the world of networking I know that TiVo is set to use 192.168.0.1 and believe that everything else is set as you say but it would be great to have somebody else try it out to see if it is possible or not. Cablewise I know I have the right cable because everything worked fine when I was using dialup. I can switch back to dialup and it works fine - but I have a crap telephone line which is always going out of order and I really just want to get rid of it completely and use 3 for the internet (and TiVo) and my mobile or Skype for telephone services. If I can!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

difelma said:


> I really just want to get rid of it completely and use 3 for the internet (and TiVo) and my mobile or Skype for telephone services. If I can!


You definitely can but I suspect the router that supports 3G SIM cards is the easy pain free way to do it. Using ICS will be very hard work.

The special router for 3G SIM cards will be a further cost but as you wish to do away with your landline and will save on that year by year it is probably worth it. It will then be easy for you to network further devices like a wifi internet radio in due course.


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## difelma (Feb 16, 2008)

Well the Linksys looks likes a great idea but seems to be locked to Vodafone and I've only just signed up to 3 so if I can find a way to use my current set up then that's the way to go. At least it's a fall back idea and, as you say, has potential for more than just updating TiVo.

I know the ICS isn't a great solution - but it's served it's purpose so far and I'm not greedy I just want the odd tv schedule on my TiVo - I'm a very cheap date..................

Thanks guys for the suggestions so far - if Katman does get a chance to look into the ICS further tomorrow night that would be great and in the meantime I'll look further at the Linksys router and see if there are any unlocked models out there.............


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

difelma said:


> Being, as I am, a definite layperson in the world of networking I know that TiVo is set to use 192.168.0.1 and believe that everything else is set as you say


The fact that 3 can't give your * internet connected XP computer * a static IP address is a red herring, it doesn't make any difference. This is the Wide Area Network (WAN) side of the connection and isn't of any consequence to Tivo (providing the XP PC can connect to the internet).
As far as Tivo is concerned it's connecting to a computer at 192.168.0.1 which provides its listings.

The ICS settings in XP for the 3 connection should offer:
The same LAN IP (192.168.0.1) 
The same LAN subnet (probably 255.255.255.0 but check) 
The same LAN DNS server (not actually used by Tivo but set to 192.168.0.1)

The dialup connection should be set to a different IP address or removed completely if you're feeling brave, make a note of all the settings.

Leave the WAN side connections on the XP ICS to automatic.

There is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be able to get this to work with a different connection. The connection between the XP PC and Tivo is the same - the cable works, the Tivo has the correct IP settings & subnet to find the XP PC. 
You just need to get the XP PC to offer the same IP and subnet to the LAN for the 3 connection and you should be away.


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## difelma (Feb 16, 2008)

Thanks AMc - I have a horrible feeling that that's where I started from but I'm not by the computer in question right now so I'll have a look tonight and ensure that I match to your spec and see what happens.


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## johala_reewi (Oct 30, 2002)

You might find this thread useful to get XP ICS working with 3G.

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/archive/index.php/t-17579.html

Also double check the official microsoft how to..
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306126

If you go to Control Panel > Network Connections. You should see two dial up connections. One for dial up and one for 3g. Make sure the 3G connection is set as default so XP knows which one to use when Tivo wants to access the internet.


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## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

difelma said:


> Thanks guys for the suggestions so far - if Katman does get a chance to look into the ICS further tomorrow night that would be great and in the meantime I'll look further at the Linksys router and see if there are any unlocked models out there.............


Typing this reply on a desktop machine which is connected via a hub (couldnt find my crossover cable) to the LAN Port on my laptop.

Laptop is dialled up the THREE 3G Modem.

This PC is on this forum, also streaming a radio station.
Another PC just updated its AV software and is browsing a Yahoo Group
Laptop is on another forum.

I guess that counts as successfully sharing the 3G modem 

All I did was go onto the advanced tab of the 3G modem connection and enable ICS.

Hope that helps

Keith


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## difelma (Feb 16, 2008)

Ok well firstly Katman - that certainly proves that it's possible which reassures me. I do (and did) have the tab set to ICS

AMc - I'm on the machine now using the 3G modem and all my connections are as specified by your good self.

I am now attempting to make my daily call as we speak and have just checked and it has failed again! Any other ideas?

Oh and johala_reewi - thanks for the links - the ICS one didn't tell me anything different to when I first set up the ICS. The other link may have told me helpful stuff but it was too techie for my befuddled brain


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## Fred Smith (Oct 5, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Is one of these perhaps what you need?
> 
> See www.nextag.co.uk/Linksys-WRT54G3G-U...ices-html?nxtg=161880a240534-D78F133D85485697


That is officially locked to Vodafone although there is a Dutch website shows you how to get around that but it still requires a PCMCIA 3G modem. Draytek are are dearer but support 3G USB modems on three models, Vigor 2800, 3100 and 2910.


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## difelma (Feb 16, 2008)

Well the Draytek does look good - but has anyone used one to download their TiVo data because on paper my current setup should work so I'm loathe to spend any more money to end up no further forward.

Which isn't to say I won't be tempted to open the coffers anyway...........it DOES look like a nice new toy.........


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Can telnet into Tivo and then ping back to the XP machine?
Can telnet into Tivo and then ping back to the web?
You'll need to ping from XP first to find an IP address as Tivo usually can't do DNS look up.
"Start>run>cmd" 
then
"ping www.google.co.uk"
You'll get something like
"Pinging www.l.google.com [72.14.215.99] with 32 bytes of data:"
The in Telnet with Tivo ping 72.14.215.99.
If you get a response then your Tivo can access the internet, if not it suggests a local problem - but I'm beginning to run out of ideas what.


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## difelma (Feb 16, 2008)

Well I haven't pinged but I can use my web remote from the XP machine so I'm guessing that the connection there is solid enough. I'll try pinging both XP and web tonight and post the responses.

I know that I did originally get this problem when I first set up the ICS on dialup but taking the firewall out of the equation resolved it - I know it's not the firewall this time - but it may offer some insight to you AMc? Completely out of my league here - but is it of any value to ping the 3G itself???


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

I have to admit I'm no networking expert beyond setting up my own home network.

If the Tivo and XP PC are in the same range of IP addresses and subnet then you would be able to find Tivo from the XP machine even if Tivo couldn't access the Internet.

If the default gateway set up on Tivo doesn't match the IP address of the XP machine's ICS connection then Tivo would be able to answer requests from the XP machine (i.e. the web remote) but not make the call to the internet. 
When Tivo starts the daily call it will attempt to establish a connection with the default gateway - if it can't then it can't proceed.

IIRC the daily call makes it's requests and receives its responses on standard HTTP ports - by default most standard 'consumer' firewalls should allow an outgoing connection and the incoming responses to that connection without further fiddling.
Running your Internet connection with no firewall at all would be quite a risky thing to do.


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## difelma (Feb 16, 2008)

Ok I'm completely at a loss now. From the bash /var/tmp prompt I can successfully ping 192.168.0.1 which is my ICS IP address and I can successfully ping 66.249.91.147 which is the google address.

The little I know about Telnet is everything that Steve from TiVoHeaven taught me when I first upgraded my TiVo hard drive and set up the ICS link so I have no idea if there's any more I can try at this stage.

I'm not even sure whether it's good news or bad that TiVo can ping the internet but just to be sure the next thing I did was ran the test call with the usual "Failed. Service unavailable" result. 

The firewall has TiVo on the exceptions list which allows it through - but I did try running the download without the firewall switched on just to prove that it wasn't a factor and it still failed.


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## smokie (Dec 27, 2002)

You haven't inadvertently set the TiVo to use dial up rather than network have you?


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## difelma (Feb 16, 2008)

No - when I switch to the XP's dial up connection the download works and when I switch to the 3G it doesn't. I never touch TiVo's settings.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

hmmmm that suggests that everything is OK in your network and the problem is with the 3 connection. It's a pity that Katman doesn't have a networked Tivo to try.

I've PMed you some tests because don't know if it's sensible to post the Tivo listings IP in a public forum.


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## johala_reewi (Oct 30, 2002)

difelma said:


> Ok I'm completely at a loss now. From the bash /var/tmp prompt I can successfully ping 192.168.0.1 which is my ICS IP address and I can successfully ping 66.249.91.147 which is the google address.


That would indicate that ICS is working via the 3G link and Tivo can indeed access the internet. The reason the daily call is failing may be down to other reasons.

Perhaps 3G use a proxy or block certain ports? See this thread (or search the UK forums for transparent proxy)
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=343293#10


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## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

AMc said:


> hmmmm that suggests that everything is OK in your network and the problem is with the 3 connection. It's a pity that Katman doesn't have a networked Tivo to try.


Well if someone wants to perform a free Network upgrade on my Tivo I am more than willing to let them  

Is your Tivo networked ?

If so and you live where I think you do then I am not very far away from you could pop over at the weekend and bring my laptop and modem to give it a try.

PM me if you would like to try this.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

I'm near where you suggest but the 3 coverage map suggests no 3G signal (see PM). 
We get almost no phone signal on Vodafone and 02 and absolutely nothing on Virgin/T-mobile or Orange so I'd be pretty sceptical about getting a signal at all.

If the OP can't get any further and the modem falls back to GPRS may be we can have a bash next week (pun intended).


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## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

AMc said:


> I'm near where you suggest but the 3 coverage map suggests no 3G signal (see PM).
> We get almost no phone signal on Vodafone and 02 and absolutely nothing on Virgin/T-mobile or Orange so I'd be pretty sceptical about getting a signal at all.
> 
> If the OP can't get any further and the modem falls back to GPRS may be we can have a bash next week (pun intended).


I was obviously thinking of someone else then LOL

Never had ANY luck using my cell modem on GPRS for anything but I believe Three dont have a 2G network but use Orange for that

Keith


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## difelma (Feb 16, 2008)

Ok so I'm thinking the next thing to try is modifying the Ident.icl file as referred to a couple of times on the forum to aid with transparent proxy problems. But I have no idea where to find it. I did follow one link but the file wasn't where it said and I have to admit I did get a bit bemused (yet again) by all the jargon speak. Anyone want to give me laypersons directions to the Ident.icl file please???

Oh and a small instruction on how to make a backup of it before messing with it would be helpful as well.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Just to correlate what has been found so far...
difelma can ping the Tivo listings server (using the IP from my Tivo logs) from his/her Tivo with his/her firewall off.
He/she can also get an 403 HTTP authorisation error from that IP using a PC browser which suggests it's possible to get a port 80 connection.

We're guessing it's a proxy problem, but I have no experience of this and don't think I can help much more.

Oh and Katman got my location down to about 3 miles (which is slightly spooky) . I do use this username on several forums - one of which puts me 'East of Norwich, West of Yarmouth' which is pretty specific.


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## difelma (Feb 16, 2008)

Firstly let me just thank everybody for their help - it's taken me half the year but I can now update my TiVo using my Huawei 3G modem.

I know there are other people out there with the same lack of techie expertise as me and so for those people - here is how I fixed the problem:

From the bash /var/tmp prompt I could successfully ping 192.168.0.1 which is my ICS IP address and I could successfully ping 66.249.91.147 which is the google address. This indicated that the ICS was working via the 3G link and that TiVo could access the internet.

It was thought that 3G use a transparent proxy and I was given this link

This gave me the following information:

The important thing is to edit /tvlib/tcl/tv/Ident.itcl (after making a backup) and add the line

puts $conn "Content-Length: 0"

after the

puts $conn "IDB_TIMESTAMP: $now"

line.

However, as a Linux novice I needed some coaching on how to edit files and I found this link http://tivo.stevejenkins.com/network_cd.html#_Toc101001795

From here I found joe.tar and managed to install it and finally get into the Ident.itcl file. However I was stuck on two areas. The first was making a back-up file and the second was getting to the line that I needed to edit. I didn't want to mess with the file until I could find a way to back it up.

Whilst asking for help with this I was given this link http://www.lagado.com/proxy-test which helped me verify that it was definitely an issue of a transparent proxy that I needed to resolve.

Finally I found someone who told me that once you're in the joe editor hit ^K D to save the current file - you can save it as a new name and the original is left untouched. So having saved it as a new name I then felt brave enough to explore the file and I discovered that it was as easy as pressing the down arrow button to go further into the file.

I added the line recommended above and now I am able to update my TiVo using my 3G modem and have been able to get rid of my worthless telephone line completely.

Sadly I have not found a way to solve the second problem of trying to set-up an ICS link using a Vista computer - but I have what I need and so I am happy.

And if I can help anyone else along the way with this information then even better.


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