# Spectrum and cable card



## bueller555 (Jun 30, 2005)

I have a Bolt on cable card using Spectrum (Charter) as my provider. In inquiring about possibly changing packages, I was told that the current plans do not allow for cable card and that it is possible that Spectrum may obsolete cable card in the future. It sounded like more a matter of when than if. Or am I misunderstanding this? I love my Tivo and have had a Series 2 and HD prior to my Bolt. I hate the thought of losing it. I've resisted the lower prices and better offerings from Hawaiian Telcom because I wouldn't be able to use my Tivo.


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## sroberts225 (8 mo ago)

my cable provider has also let me know that my system (TiVo w/ cablecard) will be obsolete after August 31, 2022. nothing to do except ditch my TiVo (2 of them) and start streaming (YouTube or other...?)... really bums me out... no alternative that i can think of...


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## ManeJon (Apr 14, 2018)

There have been several reports similar but then when people talked to the cable card experts at Spectrum they were told that isn't true. Who knows


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## bueller555 (Jun 30, 2005)

sroberts225 said:


> my cable provider has also let me know that my system (TiVo w/ cablecard) will be obsolete after August 31, 2022. nothing to do except ditch my TiVo (2 of them) and start streaming (YouTube or other...?)... really bums me out... no alternative that i can think of...


August 22? Was that in writing or in speaking to someone from Spectrum?


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## alfansome (Apr 5, 2016)

sroberts225 said:


> my cable provider has also let me know that my system (TiVo w/ cablecard) will be obsolete after August 31, 2022. nothing to do except ditch my TiVo (2 of them) and start streaming (YouTube or other...?)... really bums me out... no alternative that i can think of...


who is your cable provider?


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

If Spectrum (or anyone) decides to sunset cable card devices, they must have data showing that a majority of their TiVo customers will just sigh and convert to using one or more cableco supplied set top boxes (and its monthly lease billing).

Or they're just being stupid. Sometimes it's difficult to tell. How can you assess the sanity of a service that keeps shedding subscribers and compensating to appease shareholders by raising rates on those who remain, driving even more of them away? I wonder if Netflix, who is now threatening to do the same, is paying attention.

Either way, if they dump cablecards I will no longer use their cable TV package for which I am currently paying about $150/month (plus $75 for Internet). I will keep the internet, but their $1,800 annual revenue from my cable TV use will be gone. I can get all the streaming services I can eat for $1,800 a year.

I've been staying with them mostly from inertia and the familiarity and ease for me and my family of having used TiVo products for about twenty years (currently a Roamio Pro and four Minis), but that would push me fully into the "I stream everything now" camp. I already own enough streaming hardware that I don't need to buy more (for now, of course).


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## Johnny Stigler (Jun 10, 2020)

I put in Spectrum internet and at the time I was using Layer3 TV which became TVision. A box and DVR. Video quality was superior to this QAM 256 encrypted stuff from Spectrum. TVision died as a service. I had it for 3 years. Now we have used an Edge 2T, cable card & TA. Have to fiddle with the incoming level from spectrum to the TA to get it reasonably stable. For the most part it works fine to the Sony 4K Set. Could use some more Apps but then I have a Roku if we need more streaming. The wife drives the Edge quite nicely. I really wanted the OTA Edge but was out voted. So may the cable card stick around for a few more years. I hope so.


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## bueller555 (Jun 30, 2005)

Thanks, everyone. I love my Tivo and my wife is mostly indifferent, but likes the ability to have at least the Netflix and Prime apps on it. She just can't get used to the idea of changing inputs to get to our Firestick. 

When they pull the plug on the cablecard, I'm pretty resigned to the thought that I'll have to experiment with our only other cable provider, Hawaiian Telcom. For the price, they offer better internet speeds and my friends seem to be happy with the dvr performance. They've never had Tivo, so they can only compare it to Spectrum hardware. One thing that I'll be happy about is eliminating the dance to get the TA synced and the MOCA connection to my mini.


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## austinsho (Oct 21, 2001)

I saw this the other day and put in some inquiries with some folks I know at Spectrum. I was told that yes, the cable cards are on their way out but that a date will depend on some contract negotiations that are underway even as we speak. I was also told that cablecard is about three precent of Spectrum's overall video business, so it is seriously considering whether or not it is worth continuing. For this household, a loss of Tivo on Spectrum would mean that we immediately drop all Spectrum services, as their DVR service is nothing less than pathetic. We would probably go back to DirecTV (as expensive as it is) as it has IMHO the most stable DVRs in the (shrinking) business.


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## JonAult (Jan 19, 2005)

I've felt for the last couple years that if my current Tivo died I probably wouldn't replace it, so if/when Spectrum drops cable card support that would probably be the end of Tivo for me as well. IIRC Spectrum has a package where you can get local channels plus 15 channels of your choice via streaming; I could fit just about everything I currently watch into that. I'd probably also look at just getting local channels via OTA & getting everything else via Apple TV apps, but in that case I'd be looking for cheaper ways to record OTA channels.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

JonAult said:


> IIRC Spectrum has a package where you can get local channels plus 15 channels of your choice via streaming;


Anyone know anything more about this package? I can't find it on their site.


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## samsauce29 (Nov 30, 2007)

dougdingle said:


> Anyone know anything more about this package? I can't find it on their site.


It's called Spectrum Choice. It's not as good a deal as it used to be at $29.99. In my area, it's now $44.99 plus a broadcast fee. I believe you have to ask for it.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

samsauce29 said:


> It's called Spectrum Choice. It's not as good a deal as it used to be at $29.99. In my area, it's now $44.99 plus a broadcast fee. I believe you have to ask for it.


Thanks. The Spectrum 'broadcast fee' on the bill I just got is $21, so add that to $45 and at $66/mo it will cost close to what YouTube TV charges ($65/mo), and which seems a better choice overall - more channels and a 'cloud' DVR that seems to be OK, according to reviews.


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## Johnny Stigler (Jun 10, 2020)

dougdingle said:


> Thanks. The Spectrum 'broadcast fee' on the bill I just got is $21, so add that to $45 and at $66/mo it will cost close to what YouTube TV charges ($65/mo), and which seems a better choice overall - more channels and a 'cloud' DVR that seems to be OK, according to reviews.


Something to look at is Amazon Recast. It is a DVR for OTA with 4 Tuners. Antenna required. The TiVo OTA DVR is 2 tuners. It supports Alexa. You still need internet from someone. Just something to consider.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Johnny Stigler said:


> Something to look at is Amazon Recast. It is a DVR for OTA with 4 Tuners. Antenna required. The TiVo OTA DVR is 2 tuners. It supports Alexa. You still need internet from someone. Just something to consider.


Thanks. Unfortunately, although I live in a major American city, I am in an RF-free bowl canyon where I have no off-air. Zero. I don't get TV, or FM radio, or cell service. I can get AM skip on summer nights where AM stations 1,500 miles away come in just fine, though.

It's kind of bizarre and limits my options, has made me a cableco slave for decades.


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## Johnny Stigler (Jun 10, 2020)

dougdingle said:


> Thanks. Unfortunately, although I live in a major American city, I am in an RF-free bowl canyon where I have no off-air. Zero. I don't get TV, or FM radio, or cell service. I can get AM skip on summer nights where AM stations 1,500 miles away come in just fine, though.
> 
> It's kind of bizarre and limits my options, has made me a cableco slave for decades.


Well if that ain't something. I put a 20' tower in the front of my house for OTA. People said why! Well Google Earth said that is the only place that will work. The street light poll would have been the best but I figured the politics wasn't worth the effort. It is just a backup for when the cable goes out.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Johnny Stigler said:


> Well if that ain't something. I put a 20' tower in the front of my house for OTA. People said why! Well Google Earth said that is the only place that will work. The street light poll would have been the best but I figured the politics wasn't worth the effort. It is just a backup for when the cable goes out.


At one point I got so frustrated I hired an antenna expert to come out and try. He came with a 40 foot crank up tower, an enormous yagi, and a spectrum analyzer, and the only channel he could find was a 24 hour religious station about 40 miles away. This in an area that has about 45-50 off-air stations (if you count all the sub-channels).


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## gkottner (Jun 5, 2010)

dougdingle said:


> Anyone know anything more about this package? I can't find it on their site.


My ex-wife switched over to TV Choice around 6 months ago. Cincinnati area. You have to threaten to cancel and ask for retention to get someone even knowledgeable about it. She has a Roamio with a cablecard and they were able to switch everything over during the initial call. The CSR handling the switchover was the most knowledgeable person about cablecards that I have ever spoken to at Spectrum. Bally RSNs were available in the package, but I believe that adds the additional fees. She choose not to get them. Her monthly bill with internet is $102 a month for 2 years, I believe.
I remember it was extremely hard to find the channel lineup as well. This was the link I used. Spectrum TV Choice is one of the dropdown options. https://www.spectrum.com/address/ch...spt_pro_0322&opredirect=choice-channel-lineup
You then pick your 15 channels from the list. It does include locals which are in addition to your 15 channels.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

gkottner said:


> My ex-wife switched over to TV Choice around 6 months ago. Cincinnati area. You have to threaten to cancel and ask for retention to get someone even knowledgeable about it. She has a Roamio with a cablecard and they were able to switch everything over during the initial call. The CSR handling the switchover was the most knowledgeable person about cablecards that I have ever spoken to at Spectrum. Bally RSNs were available in the package, but I believe that adds the additional fees. She choose not to get them. Her monthly bill with internet is $102 a month for 2 years, I believe.
> I remember it was extremely hard to find the channel lineup as well. This was the link I used. Spectrum TV Choice is one of the dropdown options. https://www.spectrum.com/address/ch...spt_pro_0322&opredirect=choice-channel-lineup
> You then pick your 15 channels from the list. It does include locals which are in addition to your 15 channels.


That link unfortunately didn't work for me. They wanted my address, then told me that address already had service, then sent me to a page listing what channels I was getting, and that was that.


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## sroberts225 (8 mo ago)

bueller555 said:


> August 22? Was that in writing or in speaking to someone from Spectrum?


my cable provider is a local outfit... EATEL (now REV)... south Louisiana only...


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## sroberts225 (8 mo ago)

alfansome said:


> who is your cable provider?


my cable provider is a local outfit... EATEL (now REV)... south Louisiana only...


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## astroglide (Jun 20, 2005)

Dear Spectrum Customer,​







You are currently paying a monthly fee for one or more CableCARDs. A CableCARD is a one-way card device - about the size of a credit card - that allows access to TV services.
As we continue to upgrade our networks and technology, CableCARDs will not be compatible with future service upgrades for some time. We have other options for you to consider that will enhance your TV viewing experience, including providing you DVR functionality and access to thousands of Video On Demand options.
Avoid the monthly fee of a CableCARD by taking advantage of one of the below:

50% off Apple TV*** (not available for pick-up in stores)
Free Spectrum Receiver for 24 months*
In addition, we are offering free Cloud DVR services for 24 months! ** With Spectrum's Cloud DVR service, you can record your favorite TV programs and watch them remotely from your devices.
*To learn more about these offers or if you no longer require your CableCARD(s), call us at 866-532-2598 or stop by your local Spectrum Store. *Visit Spectrum.com/stores for locations. *We will remove any monthly CableCARD fee from your account. You do not need to return your CableCARD(s) to Spectrum.*​


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

astroglide said:


> Dear Spectrum Customer,​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yup, I just got this email and I'm livid. I don't know what other choices are good or not good, but I need something other than just live tv. In addition, they didn't give an effective date for this. I have shows on both of my Tivos and don't know if they will just disappear or I can at least view them.

I feel like I need a lot of help with this. I do have a Spectrum store nearby. I don't get why they can't just continue with it.


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## Steven Rogers (Jul 30, 2017)

sharkster said:


> Yup, I just got this email and I'm livid. I don't know what other choices are good or not good, but I need something other than just live tv. In addition, they didn't give an effective date for this. I have shows on both of my Tivos and don't know if they will just disappear or I can at least view them.
> 
> I feel like I need a lot of help with this. I do have a Spectrum store nearby. I don't get why they can't just continue with it.


I just called Spectrum. The Cable Card Division was not aware of this email when I first called. But during my call, they received notice about it.

The impression of the person that I spoke to was that this email was to encourage people to move off cable cards, and they were not necessarily discontinued. But he advised to call back in a few days as they learn more.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Thanks for that info, Steven!  I'm really just gobsmacked by this as, last I heard locally in my market, this was not even a thing.

Tomorrow I am going to be in the strip mall where a Spectrum store is, so I think I'll stop in after I get my shot at the Safeway store.


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## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

I just got the spectrum email as well about the cable card. It isn't clear what they are going to do or when. It is very frustrating! I hope that there will be some definitive information soon. I would go completely to stream and if it weren't for local sports.


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## JonAult (Jan 19, 2005)

I got a similar email as well (about an hour & a half ago, St Louis area). I didn't get offered a discounted Apple TV, just a free Spectrum receiver for 2 years, but as I already have 2 Apple TVs I wouldn't have bought another one anyway.

It's annoyingly vague about the future plans for cable card support. For now, I plan to do nothing.


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## taronga (Nov 16, 2006)

I just got the email as well. I think it's funny that they say they don't want the cable cards back. Doesn't say anything about the tuning adapter, though, which would be more of a hassle to return (our local Spectrum store closed several years back). 

The Apple TV offer is interesting, especially considering this: How to control your Apple TV with a TiVo remote

Thankfully, when the time comes, I can just switch the Bolt to antenna, which is 80% of what we watch anyway. If it weren't for sports, I would've likely cut the cord a long time ago.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

sharkster said:


> Yup, I just got this email and I'm livid. I don't know what other choices are good or not good, but I need something other than just live tv. In addition, they didn't give an effective date for this. I have shows on both of my Tivos and don't know if they will just disappear or I can at least view them.
> 
> I feel like I need a lot of help with this. I do have a Spectrum store nearby. I don't get why they can't just continue with it.


When cable cards are no longer supported, your TiVo should continue to be able to play back already recorded content. But you can't use it to watch live TV or record anything more.

Some of your choices are: 

-Get an antenna, watch live off-air TV only 

-Get a Spectrum cable box/remote, continue watching Spectrum content. They also offer a DVR service.

-Get a streaming device (Roku, AppleTV4K, Amazon Firestick, etc.) and switch to subscribed streaming services. You need a decent Internet connection to do this.

-Some combination of the above

-Read books.

They're stopping cable card support because they can. It was forced down their throats and they never liked it because it cost them a lot of time and money to support the concept. Besides which, every TiVo was one less of their own cable boxes and remotes they could rent, and those devices are a license to print money. The basic cable box rents for $10/mo, and if you want a remote to actually control it, it's another $2.50/mo. So about $150/year rental for each TV/outlet on hardware that costs them maybe $75 in the volume they buy them. They couldn't WAIT to dump cable cards.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

taronga said:


> I just got the email as well. I think it's funny that they say they don't want the cable cards back. Doesn't say anything about the tuning adapter, though, which would be more of a hassle to return (our local Spectrum store closed several years back).
> 
> The Apple TV offer is interesting, especially considering this: How to control your Apple TV with a TiVo remote
> 
> Thankfully, when the time comes, I can just switch the Bolt to antenna, which is 80% of what we watch anyway. If it weren't for sports, I would've likely cut the cord a long time ago.


I had no idea the ATV4K was that versatile in terms of learning non-Apple remotes. Thanks.

In exchange, I'll point out a 'hidden' ATV4K remote feature I just love: You're watching a show, and miss a bit of dialog. Hit the mike button on the Apple remote and say "What did she say?" and the device will rewind 20 seconds, turn on closed captioning, play back that 20 seconds of rewound video, then turn off closed captioning. It's magical.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Thanks, Doug! I do have a Firestick and Roku. I'm making notes on what channels I need for what I record to see what all I'd have to subscribe to, to continue getting that content. It's probably cheaper to drop HBO and SHO and stream those. I mostly use HBO and have their streaming for free, since I currently subscribe to HBO.

I saw something online (maybe it was old info, at least I hope) that the Spectrum dvr only has one tuner. I cannot imagine that at this point, so I REALLY hope it's wrong if I take that route.

I really have to have tv as it's about the only thing that keeps me halfway sane with all I'm dealing with these days. I keep reruns of certain shows on hand for evening viewing. It's the only thing that gets me outside of my head, which is where I absolutely have to spend time each day. I pay them a lot of money each month and if there was a viable choice I would leave. Just for cable, landline, and internet, it's about $297 a month, having just gone up by over $20 recently. Thanks. Charge me more and take away some of the service.


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## samsauce29 (Nov 30, 2007)

@sharkster Do you have any non TiVo streaming devices? If so, your easiest path may be to take the 24 month cloud DVR option and use the Spectrum app. If you're open to other approaches, YouTube TV, DirecTV streaming, and others may work as well.

I use the Spectrum app for a few channels as I refuse to use the tuning adapter. Haven't used the Cloud DVR but the app itself works "OK". It ain't TiVo.


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## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

taronga said:


> I just got the email as well. I think it's funny that they say they don't want the cable cards back. Doesn't say anything about the tuning adapter, though, which would be more of a hassle to return (our local Spectrum store closed several years back).
> 
> The Apple TV offer is interesting, especially considering this: How to control your Apple TV with a TiVo remote
> 
> Thankfully, when the time comes, I can just switch the Bolt to antenna, which is 80% of what we watch anyway. If it weren't for sports, I would've likely cut the cord a long time ago.


I am more intrigued by the 24 month free service. Maybe I will switch to that and pray that my sports will be streamed soon. I really don't want to go back to paying the monthly fee to spectrum. That's the reason I switched to TiVo in the first place. 

Free Spectrum Receiver for 24 months
Free Cloud DVR services for 24 months


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## samsauce29 (Nov 30, 2007)

I haven't seen an email yet. Will be interesting to see how widespread this is.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

astroglide said:


> Dear Spectrum Customer,​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I got it too. This is BS. Clearly trying to get cablecards out of circulation. As if any of their "incentives" for me turning in my cablecard are worth the paper they're printed on. The moment they stop supporting cablecard is the moment they are no longer competitive with any other alternative.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

It would be helpful if people who got the email mentioned what part of the country or what state they live in. This may or may not be rolled out to major cities for a while.

But it is coming. I think most of us knew that when the FCC dropped the cable card requirement.


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## samsauce29 (Nov 30, 2007)

series5orpremier said:


> I got it too. This is BS. Clearly trying to get cablecards out of circulation. As if any of their "incentives" for me turning in my cablecard are worth the paper they're printed on. The moment they stop supporting cablecard is the moment they are no longer competitive with any other alternative.


Agreed. Literally the only thing I can't get with YTTV is the failing Pittsburgh Pirates, now that they've added the Weather Channel.

I can always read about the Bucs losing the next day...


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## Steven Rogers (Jul 30, 2017)

dougdingle said:


> It would be helpful if people who got the email mentioned what part of the country or what state they live in. This may or may not be rolled out to major cities for a while.
> 
> But it is coming. I think most of us knew that when the FCC dropped the cable card requirement.


St. Louis here.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

samsauce29 said:


> I can always read about the Bucs losing the next day...


I think MLB or the broadcast rights holders are on the verge of offering team streaming subscriptions with no geographic blackouts, but I've been thinking of going to radio and internet updates once my Spectrum new customer discount expires anyway. I attend about 20 games/year in person so why do I need to pay for the broadcast rights on those?


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## taronga (Nov 16, 2006)

dougdingle said:


> It would be helpful if people who got the email mentioned what part of the country or what state they live in. This may or may not be rolled out to major cities for a while.


Central Kentucky here



dougdingle said:


> In exchange, I'll point out a 'hidden' ATV4K remote feature I just love: You're watching a show, and miss a bit of dialog. Hit the mike button on the Apple remote and say "What did she say?" and the device will rewind 20 seconds, turn on closed captioning, play back that 20 seconds of rewound video, then turn off closed captioning. It's magical.


That's nifty. One of the reasons why I've kept going back to Roku is they, like Tivo, have an instant replay button right on the remote. You can also set it to only turn on captions during instant replay.



samsauce29 said:


> Agreed. Literally the only thing I can't get with YTTV is the failing Pittsburgh Pirates, now that they've added the Weather Channel.
> 
> I can always read about the Bucs losing the next day...


Same here but with the Reds.  And unfortunately there's still a few years left on the ACC's (pre-ACC Network) agreement with Fox/Bally Sports South.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

series5orpremier said:


> I think MLB or the broadcast rights holders are on the verge of offering team streaming subscriptions with no geographic blackouts, but I've been thinking of going to radio and internet updates once my Spectrum new customer discount expires anyway. I attend about 20 games/year in person so why do I need to pay for the broadcast rights on those?


Spectrum in Los Angeles has an exclusive on Dodger home games, and adds $8/mo to every single bill for it. It's not optional - you have to pay it even if you never watch it (like me). So another $100/year for something I don't need or use.

The financial model cannot continue to exist indefinitely with streaming being as good as it is. 

They do keep raising their Internet fees as well. I'm now at $79/mo for 200/10 service that started at $49/mo. They have a semi-monopoly there, although some of the new 5G 'boxes' might offer some competition. I'll note that Verizon's offering in my area is $69/mo for 100/10 service, so not exactly competition.


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## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

Steven Rogers said:


> St. Louis here.


Same


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## gkottner (Jun 5, 2010)

dougdingle said:


> That link unfortunately didn't work for me. They wanted my address, then told me that address already had service, then sent me to a page listing what channels I was getting, and that was that.


I don't currently have Spectrum so that must be why it worked for me. May work for a close-by address if you know a place that doesn't have Spectrum. I did try it for my ex's address and got exactly what you got. Somewhere I have the channel list printed out. The new display makes it impossible to print or capture anything (at least for my skills)


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

gkottner said:


> I don't currently have Spectrum so that must be why it worked for me. May work for a close-by address if you know a place that doesn't have Spectrum. I did try it for my ex's address and got exactly what you got. Somewhere I have the channel list printed out. The new display makes it impossible to print or capture anything (at least for my skills)


OK, figured it out. 

You can enter your current address, but to see various available channel packages, you have to click on "I'm a new customer at this address". 

You can then select the package from a drop down menu. It's called Spectrum TV Choice.

It's a cable package, right, not a streaming package? So without a cable card enabled TiVo or one of their set top boxes, you would have to use the Spectrum App to stream the content?


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## samsauce29 (Nov 30, 2007)

dougdingle said:


> OK, figured it out.
> 
> You can enter your current address, but to see various available channel packages, you have to click on "I'm a new customer at this address".
> 
> ...


Correct. I've used it both ways back when I had it previously.


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## gbshuler (Feb 25, 2008)

series5orpremier said:


> I think MLB or the broadcast rights holders are on the verge of offering team streaming subscriptions with no geographic blackouts, but I've been thinking of going to radio and internet updates once my Spectrum new customer discount expires anyway. I attend about 20 games/year in person so why do I need to pay for the broadcast rights on those?


I have been shopping around for a streaming service with local channels. I live in St. Louis. I want to switch to a streaming service with local channels. 

Far as I can tell there are 3 "serious" alternatives for full "cable comparable" service: DirecTV Stream, Hulu, and YouTubeTV.

My family said "We want the St Louis Cardinals games!". Spectrum carries all home and away Cardinal MLB games on "Bally Sports Midwest" network (the old Fox Sports Midwest acquired recently -- Cardinals own 30%)

Guess who has EXCLUSIVE rights to Bally Sports? DirecTV Stream. They are no TiVo.

We get MLB.TV (like NFL Sunday Ticket) but no Cardinals games (black out rules).

I don't know what to do.


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

Steven Rogers said:


> The impression of the person that I spoke to was that this email was to encourage people to move off cable cards, and they were not necessarily discontinued. But he advised to call back in a few days as they learn more.





dmrshop said:


> I just got the spectrum email as well about the cable card. It isn't clear what they are going to do or when.


This is about Charter's announced plans to move to high-split for higher HSI speeds, and the need to terminate CableCARD support to do it[*]_. _ Actual schedules for those HSI upgrades will very substantially between locations (perhaps many years for some), but as some predicted would happen this is the initial carrot. The more people who volunteer for the offers on their own schedule the fewer people Charter will need to use the stick on later as they actually schedule a location for high split rollouts (which will almost certainly include more email, announcements on bills, and snail mail announcing "drop dead" dates). Note that those drop dead dates will likely also require some customers to replace their STB with a more current model. And, as others have said, there will still the those that are "surprised" that their TiVo stops working (it is a classic horse and water problem), but given that more people are clamoring for higher speed HSI[**] then CableCARD support, this step was sort of inevitable and expected.

Until the drop dead dates are announced for a location most expect TiVo's to continue to work and be supported as good as they do now (yes, that is not saying much for some locations).

[*] There are a whole set of very expensive alternatives that were proposed over the years that could keep CableCARD support limping along across the entire Charter footprint (the cheapest would have worked only in limited areas), but given the very small numbers of CableCARD users Charter is not willing to even consider spending those many many millions, especially now that they have no legal requirement to consider doing so.

[**] And at least a few proposals currently being reviewed at the FCC define new HSI tier minimums that would require higher speeds to continue to be considered meeting one's requirements to being a HSI provider and obtaining federal funding for expansion.


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## samsauce29 (Nov 30, 2007)

I do wonder about this in general. If these early locations end up representing a critical mass of CableCard users, would Spectrum then just cut everyone off at once as any support effort begins to outweigh any benefit to them.

(Random musings as I listen to a customer not understanding why they won't receive finalized engineering deliverables at contract signing.)


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

gbshuler said:


> I have been shopping around for a streaming service with local channels. I live in St. Louis. I want to switch to a streaming service with local channels.
> 
> Far as I can tell there are 3 "serious" alternatives for full "cable comparable" service: DirecTV Stream, Hulu, and YouTubeTV.
> 
> ...


Spectrum has Bally Sports Midwest. You have no access to Spectrum? If you're not already a customer tell them you'll sign up on the condition you can get the new customer discount AND a cablecard. St. Louis is (or was) Charter Spectrum corporate HQ so if it's possible to still get a cablecard anywhere it should be there. If you can get a cablecard at least you can use a TiVo until they shut off cablecards. Alternatively, you can stream on the Spectrum app so either way getting the new customer discount should be a better deal than DirectTV stream.

Me, if I can't use a TiVo w/cablecard will have no incentive to keep Spectrum cable. Condensed game summaries are free on the MLB app. I already also use an OTA TiVo. A lot of broadcast and cable series are available to stream on Hulu (almost free w/ads), as well as Paramount+ and Peacock.


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

samsauce29 said:


> I do wonder about this in general. If these early locations end up representing a critical mass of CableCard users, would Spectrum then just cut everyone off at once as any support effort begins to outweigh any benefit to them.


It is an interesting wonder. I would certainly expect that at some point Charter will make the call (and drop everyone), because the remainders are so small, but will they front load all the CableCARD cancellation work long before they are ready for high-split in most locations? We will know a lot more when Charter starts sending out hard drop dead date emails across their footprint (if the masters of this board feel a great disturbance in the force as all Charter TiVo-ites suddenly cry out and are then silenced at once, we will have our answer).


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## ojfl (Feb 15, 2016)

If Spectrum drops cable cards, our household will drop Spectrum and TiVos and go to streaming plus Channels DVR. It is not worth paying all of these cable boxes with little DVR flexibility.


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## Steven Rogers (Jul 30, 2017)

CommunityMember said:


> This is about Charter's announced plans to move to high-split for higher HSI speeds, and the need to terminate CableCARD support to do it[*]_. _ Actual schedules for those HSI upgrades will very substantially between locations (perhaps many years for some), but as some predicted would happen this is the initial carrot. The more people who volunteer for the offers on their own schedule the fewer people Charter will need to use the stick on later as they actually schedule a location for high split rollouts (which will almost certainly include more email, announcements on bills, and snail mail announcing "drop dead" dates). Note that those drop dead dates will likely also require some customers to replace their STB with a more current model. And, as others have said, there will still the those that are "surprised" that their TiVo stops working (it is a classic horse and water problem), but given that more people are clamoring for higher speed HSI[**] then CableCARD support, this step was sort of inevitable and expected.
> 
> Until the drop dead dates are announced for a location most expect TiVo's to continue to work and be supported as good as they do now (yes, that is not saying much for some locations).
> 
> ...


Thank you for this information. It is very helpful.

As a follow up, a Charter telemarketer just called me with the offers in the email. In asking, they said that there would be a discontinuing of service at some point - but did not say when.


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## ITGrouch (Jan 7, 2015)

As we know, there is no FCC rule anymore that Charter has to support CableCARD. They can give any explanation/excuse they want why they are pulling the plug. I recently moved from a small town that Charter is the provider and right before the move, I received a letter from them that they are discontinuing CableCARD support. I moved to another small town where Comcast is the provider and no issues with CableCARD here. Thank goodness I am done with balky Motorola tuning adapters.


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## jfharrison (Dec 31, 2006)

Interest replies, answered most of my questions before I had to ask. I have a Premier Series 4 w/ lifetime subscription so I am not looking forward to losing this. I have kept this box because it has OTA capability. Spectrum is the only cable provider in my area. I did get the email and a hard copy letter also. I have been thinking about going to OTA only because my basic cable cost has risen to $120/mo which I think is outrageous. My household watches about 3 hrs/day which is mostly news. But we record a lot of cable-only programs for viewing at other times. 

Is OTA my only option for using Tivo if they do drop the cablecard? Will I still be able to use Season Pass on OTA? Guess I better start looking for a way to set up an antenna.

For those attracted to the Apple TV offer, be aware that all the good stuff on an ATV is on their subscription TV+ service. I use my ATV primarily to stream other services (Netflix and others) but when I want to watch a weekend news program like Face the Nation or Meet the Press the stream is broken into segments and those segments are in reverse order, so when a particular segment ends the ATV jumps to the next earlier segment. This is very annoying to me. If I was willing to watch from end to beginning then it works, it's just that the presentation is 'backwards'. I have never used the Spectrum app on my ATV so can't say if it is useful or not.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

jfharrison said:


> Is OTA my only option for using Tivo if they do drop the cablecard? Will I still be able to use Season Pass on OTA?


Yes and yes. Recorded older material should continue to be playable.


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## gbshuler (Feb 25, 2008)

series5orpremier said:


> Spectrum has Bally Sports Midwest. You have no access to Spectrum?


Thanks. Yes I currently have Spectrum and Bally Sports MidWest. I have had two TiVo's operating for many years. 

My problem is cost. 
My Spectrum "bundle" (landline $10, lowend Internet 300MB, and TV Silver package) adds up to $206 including a 12 month $30 for my "Silver tier" upgrade. Add $30 a month for TiV0 service on two boxes and you are way too far north.

I have been shopping for a new option. I could keep Spectrum internet and use a stream service. If the Spectrum Stream service consists of that awful Spectrum App I see on AppleTV then time to switch.

Switch to what? Local channels and Bally Sports Midwest leaves me with .. DirecTV satellite, Dish Network, and DirecTV Stream. If there are other options I would love to hear it.


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## gbshuler (Feb 25, 2008)

I am just going to add for the lucky St. Louis customers. Pure speculation.. but this has been generally true in the past.
Charter Cable (now Spectrum) was founded in St. Louis. Traditionally St Louis gets things first as a kind of beta test.

St. Louis go the first (or one of the first few) high bandwidth services at no upcharge.
Makes sense to me that we will be "lucky" and get to beta test the "confiscation" of cable cards.
Managers ar Charter stores in the St Louis Metro may get training and then teach others.
Training: "Throw cablecard in trash bin. Offer mobile service."


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## Lesley Sterling (Jul 3, 2020)

series5orpremier said:


> Spectrum has Bally Sports Midwest. You have no access to Spectrum? If you're not already a customer tell them you'll sign up on the condition you can get the new customer discount AND a cablecard. St. Louis is (or was) Charter Spectrum corporate HQ so if it's possible to still get a cablecard anywhere it should be there. If you can get a cablecard at least you can use a TiVo until they shut off cablecards. Alternatively, you can stream on the Spectrum app so either way getting the new customer discount should be a better deal than DirectTV stream.
> 
> Me, if I can't use a TiVo w/cablecard will have no incentive to keep Spectrum cable. Condensed game summaries are free on the MLB app. I already also use an OTA TiVo. A lot of broadcast and cable series are available to stream on Hulu (almost free w/ads), as well as Paramount+ and Peacock.


I’m from St. Louis and after 3 years of trying to lower my rate, Charter finally “let” me switch to save some money. They bumped my internet speed from 100 to 400 for free (3 years) and lowered my TV package with cable cards. It’s funny because the last time I called they wouldn’t change my package because they said, “They weren’t offering those packages or cable cards any longer. They were offering streaming-only.” I said I had 2 Tivos and wouldn’t be able to record anything and they offered cloud DVRs. I told them that’s what the Tivos are for!

It was unusual that they specified “3 years” for the free internet upgrade. I thought they might have been monitoring my internet traffic or VOIP calls since I had researched moving to YouTube, Hulu and AT&T. It’s strange how “grandfathered” was used to lock me in to pricing without a way to lower pricing without losing channels BUT Charter continually added/deleted channels and raised pricing all along.


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## samsauce29 (Nov 30, 2007)

Lesley Sterling said:


> I’m from St. Louis and after 3 years of trying to lower my rate, Charter finally “let” me switch to save some money. They bumped my internet speed from 100 to 400 for free (3 years) and lowered my TV package with cable cards. It’s funny because the last time I called they wouldn’t change my package because they said, “They weren’t offering those packages or cable cards any longer. They were offering streaming-only.” I said I had 2 Tivos and wouldn’t be able to record anything and they offered cloud DVRs. I told them that’s what the Tivos are for!
> 
> It was unusual that they specified “3 years” for the free internet upgrade. I thought they might have been monitoring my internet traffic or VOIP calls since I had researched moving to YouTube, Hulu and AT&T. It’s strange how “grandfathered” was used to lock me in to pricing without a way to lower pricing without losing channels BUT Charter continually added/deleted channels and raised pricing all along.


I just got the similar 3 years treatment here in NW PA (NE Ohio Spectrum division). I was expecting to have to fully move to YTTV when my promo expired in May. Instead, for $8 over then current, I got 400 meg upgrade for 3 years and continued the same cable package.

My current bill is $131 and change for TV Select, 400 megs, and 2 cable cards. The WAF with YouTube TV is not great, so was worth staying with Spectrum for another year. As with others, I'll convert TiVo to OTA when the cable cards go away.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

gbshuler said:


> Switch to what? Local channels and Bally Sports Midwest leaves me with .. DirecTV satellite, Dish Network, and DirecTV Stream. If there are other options I would love to hear it.


DISH dropped ALL RSN's back in 2019 & has NO plans on bringing any of them back...so strike that off your options...


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

I just got a phone call from a strange 866 number. They left no message. I googled it and it said Time Warner cablecard support. I was completely dumbfounded as to why Time Warner cablecard support would be calling me until I remembered they might be part of Spectrum now. I'm guessing it was either to follow up on yesterday's e-mail, or something more threatening to pressure me by telling me they'll be turning me off by a certain date.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

They've been talking about Bally Sports offering a stand-alone streaming package for Cardinals games for a couple of years now. The impression was it's getting close and there was even a recent story that it's expected to cost about $20/month.

Edit:








Sinclair’s Bally Sports streaming service won’t arrive until summer


Sinclair’s planned Bally Sports direct-to-consumer streaming app—which will feature live games from five MLB teams—likely won’t arrive until this summer. | Sinclair’s planned Bally Sports direct-to-consumer streaming app—which will feature live games from five MLB teams—likely won’t arrive until...




www.fiercevideo.com




No Cardinals. They pick the five teams with no demand so they can justify not rolling it out for other teams. Somebody is definitely dragging their feet. I think they'll keep the Cardinals exclusively on Spectrum and DirecTV until enough people simply refuse to keep paying those services; then they'll roll out direct-to-customer streaming.


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## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

series5orpremier said:


> They've been talking about Bally Sports offering a stand-alone streaming package for Cardinals games for a couple of years now. The impression was it's getting close and there was even a recent story that it's expected to cost about $20/month.
> 
> No Cardinals. They pick the five teams with no demand so they can justify not rolling it out for other teams. Somebody is definitely dragging their feet. I think they'll keep the Cardinals exclusively on Spectrum and DirecTV until enough people simply refuse to keep paying those services; then they'll roll out direct-to-customer streaming.


NESN in Boston apparently beat out Bally for stand-alone streaming Red Sox and Bruins games.








Boston’s NESN Offers Break From Cable Bundle With Streaming Service Launch


NESN 360 will stream live Red Sox and Bruins games, and cost $30 per month.




www.hollywoodreporter.com






> Boston’s NESN, the regional sports network that televises Red Sox and Bruins games, *will be the first RSN to offer its full slate of programming directly to consumers through a streaming service*, allowing them to bypass the pay-TV bundle.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

dishrich said:


> DISH dropped ALL RSN's back in 2019 & has NO plans on bringing any of them back...so strike that off your options...


Aside from which, DISH has a long history of battling over money with many content suppliers and kicking them off the platform, some of them never to return. Not my idea of a reliable consistent vendor.


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## taronga (Nov 16, 2006)

jfharrison said:


> Is OTA my only option for using Tivo if they do drop the cablecard? Will I still be able to use Season Pass on OTA? Guess I better start looking for a way to set up an antenna.


I have a first generation Bolt that can do cable or OTA, and it takes about an hour to go through guided setup to switch to OTA (plus a few hours to fully download the new listings). I've gone back and forth a few times when there's been extended outages. The main thing is to check your Season Passes to make sure they're set to All Channels. Depending on your location, you may only need a flat antenna attached to the inside of a window.


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## andy7121 (Aug 11, 2017)

dmrshop said:


> I am more intrigued by the 24 month free service. Maybe I will switch to that and pray that my sports will be streamed soon. I really don't want to go back to paying the monthly fee to spectrum. That's the reason I switched to TiVo in the first place.
> 
> Free Spectrum Receiver for 24 months
> Free Cloud DVR services for 24 months


I take this to mean that the Spectrum Receiver will be instead of the cable card.


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## austinsho (Oct 21, 2001)

Indeed...the Spectrum receiver has the Cable Card functions embedded in it. But I've found them almost as much hassle to activate as a Cable Card ever was!


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## michaelj3 (Mar 11, 2010)

Here is the transcript of my chat w/ Spectrum Support today:

Hello, thank you for reaching out to Spectrum. I see you have questions about hardware. Please give me a moment to review your information.
To get started, may I please verify your full address including zip code.
Michael ******, 2036 ***** DR NE, *****, MN, ****
Thank you. One moment please while I search that address.
How can I help?
I have received 2 e-mails about cablecard support ending, but none say when, and it is unclear why I am receiving this information. Do you have more detail as to how long my cable card will continue to operate?
If you are receiving the email it could be just one mass email to inform everyone.
I will check your account to see if you have anything pertaining to a cable card.
well, the e-mail seems more of a marketing type e-mail than a service update, but it is cause for concern
Alright let's take a look.
I can assure you, if Spectrum removes support for Cable Cards, i will cease being a Spectrum customer and will get my internet from elsewhere, and use a streaming service.
I understand. One moment.
Alright so I see where you have a Tuning adaptor which may be the reason you received the email.
I have a tuning adapter and a cablecard
We have discontinued them and they will no longer be available.
I run a TiVo on Spectrum TV service, have for more than 20 years
Right tivo will be cable card.
currently, have a TiVo Roamio with a cable card
The little small box that piggy backs off of the big box will be the tuning adapter.
so, the question is, _when_ will these mentioned "service updates" take place that will render my TiVo useless?
I am aware about what the hardware I have is, and what it does
The text of the e-mail i received says this:
Dear Spectrum Customer, As a reminder, you are currently paying a monthly fee for one or more CableCARDs. A CableCARD is a one-way card device - about the size of a credit card - that allows access to TV services. As we continue to upgrade our networks and technology, CableCARDs will not be compatible with future service upgrades for some time. We have other options for you to consider that will enhance your TV viewing experience, including providing you DVR functionality and access to thousands of Video On Demand options.
2:28 PM
so, I am asking, WHEN?
it is the most horribly worded message ever: "...CableCARDs will not be compatible with future service upgrades for some time."
what exactly does that mean?
One moment and I will provide you with a when the system will change over.
June 14 at 2:32 PM
Still looking into this for you, thank you for your patience.
would prefer a true and correct answer to a fast one, so no problem.
I definitely understand.
Alright one moment.
June 14 at 2:37 PM
Alright so from what I gather we are not cutting them off we are simply discontinuing the product. Meaning if you have one you may keep it until it no longer works but once it stops working we will not have the equipment to replace it.
Right, totally understand that, asking when you are cutting them off...
is it in a week, a month, a year, 2 years?
or will it just quit working one day and that is that?
They aren't cutting them off.
That is what I thought at first when I read the email but they aren't cutting them off they are discontinuing the equipment.
so, if the equipment quits working, then I am out of luck, but if it keeps working forever, then it will just keep working?
I kind of doubt it, I thought the network operator had to get rid of it to make way for the high bandwidth network improvements...so when you roll out the next level (high-split??) internet, that is when cablecards are going to hit the dumpster?
As weird as that sounds yes.
So think of it this way. If you have a cell phone from 2010 they are not going to automatically cut the phone off just because it is old.
But once that phone breaks you will have to upgrade because they would no longer make that model.
Ok, I believe that is what you were told, but I don't believe it is the truth..we will see I guess...net, its a warning across the bow, sometime in the future, it may not work, but we have no plans right now...
This information was posted on something equal to an attention board.
So if it is wrong that think all agents would be in trouble haha.
ok


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## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

michaelj3 said:


> Here is the transcript of my chat w/ Spectrum Support today:
> 
> Hello, thank you for reaching out to Spectrum. I see you have questions about hardware. Please give me a moment to review your information.
> To get started, may I please verify your full address including zip code.
> ...


Thank you for posting this. As usual, only people at the very top know (maybe), and they're not sharing. Very frustrating.

For those of you using OTA in the St Louis area, what have you had to do in terms of getting good reception? I have a Roamio which apparently does not work with an antenna, so I'm wondering if purchasing an OTA is the way to go. I don't necessarily want to have an antenna installed on the roof in the backyard. However, I love the functionality of TiVo and hate to lose it.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

michaelj3 said:


> Here is the transcript of my chat w/ Spectrum Support today:
> 
> Hello, thank you for reaching out to Spectrum. I see you have questions about hardware. Please give me a moment to review your information.
> To get started, may I please verify your full address including zip code.
> ...


A good example of chat support handling a situation not covered by a script. You can expend a lot of time for little reward that way!


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

dmrshop said:


> Thank you for posting this. As usual, only people at the very top know (maybe), and they're not sharing. Very frustrating.
> 
> For those of you using OTA in the St Louis area, what have you had to do in terms of getting good reception? I have a Roamio which apparently does not work with an antenna, so I'm wondering if purchasing an OTA is the way to go. I don't necessarily want to have an antenna installed on the roof in the backyard. However, I love the functionality of TiVo and hate to lose it.


The base model (4 tuner) Roamio can be configured to receive OTA. 6-tuner models can’t.


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## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

dlfl said:


> The base model (4 tuner) Roamio can be configured to receive OTA. 6-tuner models can’t.


Yeah, I have the 6 tuner Roamio Plus.


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## michaelj3 (Mar 11, 2010)

Update, today I received the e-mail again, this time with "THIRD NOTICE" in the subject line.


THIRD NOTICE: Your Spectrum Equipment






Hello Spectrum Customer,​As a reminder, you are currently paying a monthly fee for one or more CableCARDs. A CableCARD is a one-way card device – about the size of a credit card – that allows access to TV services.

As we continue to upgrade our networks and technology, CableCARDs will not be compatible with future service upgrades for some time. We have other options for you to consider that will enhance your TV viewing experience, including providing you DVR functionality and access to thousands of Video On Demand options.

If you haven’t already, avoid the monthly fee of a CableCARD by taking advantage of one of the below offers:

50% off Apple TV† (not available for pick-up in stores)
Free Spectrum Receiver for 24 months*
In addition, we are offering free Cloud DVR services for 24 months! ** With Spectrum’s Cloud DVR service, you can record your favorite TV programs and watch them remotely from your devices.

*To learn more about these offers or if you no longer require your CableCARD(s), call us at 866-532-2598 or stop by your local Spectrum Store. *Visit Spectrum.com/stores for locations. *We will remove any monthly CableCARD fee from your account. You do not need to return your CableCARD(s) to Spectrum.*

Sincerely,
Kathleen Griffin
VP, Marketing Communications
​


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## michaelj3 (Mar 11, 2010)

michaelj3 said:


> Update, today I received the e-mail again, this time with "THIRD NOTICE" in the subject line.
> 
> 
> THIRD NOTICE: Your Spectrum Equipment
> ...


I still feel like this is the single most poorly worded e-mail I have ever read...what is this suppsoed to mean:
"As we continue to upgrade our networks and technology, CableCARDs will not be compatible with future service upgrades for some time."

My cynical self says the vagueness is completely intentional...


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

michaelj3 said:


> I still feel like this is the single most poorly worded e-mail I have ever read...what is this suppsoed to mean:
> "As we continue to upgrade our networks and technology, CableCARDs will not be compatible with future service upgrades for some time."
> 
> My cynical self says the vagueness is completely intentional...


Of course it is. Cablecos are shedding customers like crazy, and they understand their future is in supplying Internet as their main business model dies. They are panicked and doing stupid things.


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

michaelj3 said:


> I still feel like this is the single most poorly worded e-mail I have ever read...what is this suppsoed to mean:
> "As we continue to upgrade our networks and technology, CableCARDs will not be compatible with future service upgrades for some time."
> 
> My cynical self says the vagueness is completely intentional...


Charter has been very clear (in other venues) that they are going to move to high-split for improved HSI upload speeds. And this will mean the end of CableCARD viability in locations that move to high-split (which Charter themselves has stated will actually take years to accomplish across their entire footprint; whether Charter chooses to end support for CableCARDs in advance in locations that are not yet ready to upgrade is unknown). The problem is that while those that understand the underlying technology will be able to understand what the words "high split" would mean, 99+% of Charter customer base have no clue about the underlying technologies that are involved, nor the details, nor the approaches Charter has chosen. And there is no way to educate those customers sufficiently to the point that anything other than vague "future service upgrades" are going to be helpful.


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## Hauss (Apr 2, 2015)

For what it’s worth, I just got a cable card and tuning adapter without any issues from spectrum.


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

Hauss said:


> For what it’s worth, I just got a cable card and tuning adapter without any issues from spectrum.


Charter has not yet stopped offering or supporting CableCARDs in any location, even if some CSRs don't know what they are (and if they do may try to convince you to select otherwise) and activating them can sometimes be a challenge (but nothing new there).

It is expected that there will be a time when Charter will stop offering CableCARDs (likely when they actually announce the end date for support in a location rather than this initial email which is just an encouragement to move to a different solution at a time most convenient for you). But today is not that day. And tomorrow seems unlikely too.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Hauss said:


> For what it’s worth, I just got a cable card and tuning adapter without any issues from spectrum.


Since this is a Spectrum cablecard labeled thread...I've been with Spectrum and their cablecard since I bought my first HD set, a JVC DiLA set with a cablecard slot almost two decades ago. After that, two HD THX TiVos. Each two tuner THX device took two cards back then (no multi cards). The entire experience from then until now, including the transition to multicards and SDV and having to get the TA, has gone better than expected. They have a dedicated support line for cable cards and TAs, and it's not the usual desk jockeys reading from a script. Those people know their business, and never failed to remotely fix any issues I had. Many of them also used TiVos, which helped.

All that is to say that I have been a satisfied customer overall for decades. Their images get worse each year because they insist on ramping up their compression engine to be able to accommodate more shopping channels and foreign language bundles (which are HUGE moneymakers for them). But no matter how bad it got, it was still better than the unwatchable garbage DirecTV and DISH have been peddling for decades.


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## JonAult (Jan 19, 2005)

michaelj3 said:


> Update, today I received the e-mail again, this time with "THIRD NOTICE" in the subject line.


After getting the weekly emails over the last few weeks, today I received the same message via USPS. It has the same weird language ("will not be compatible with future upgrades for some time"), but no new information.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

dougdingle said:


> Since this is a Spectrum cablecard labeled thread...I've been with Spectrum and their cablecard since I bought my first HD set...They have a dedicated support line for cable cards and TAs, and it's not the usual desk jockeys reading from a script. Those people know their business, and never failed to remotely fix any issues I had. Many of them also used TiVos, which helped.


You're lucky. Legacy Charter markets never had and still don't have a dedicated support line or anybody that has a clue about cable cards. I struggled with dozens of activations and cable car support issues over the course of many years with Charter, later Spectrum. It got to the point where I had to tell them what to do, step by step because they were so incompetent.


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## Rkstr (Aug 23, 2006)

Agreed regarding the letter, it is the most horribly worded message ever: "...CableCARDs will not be compatible with future service upgrades for some time."

What exactly does that mean, "for some time".


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## michaelj3 (Mar 11, 2010)

dougdingle said:


> Since this is a Spectrum cablecard labeled thread...I've been with Spectrum and their cablecard since I bought my first HD set, a JVC DiLA set with a cablecard slot almost two decades ago. After that, two HD THX TiVos. Each two tuner THX device took two cards back then (no multi cards). The entire experience from then until now, including the transition to multicards and SDV and having to get the TA, has gone better than expected. They have a dedicated support line for cable cards and TAs, and it's not the usual desk jockeys reading from a script. Those people know their business, and never failed to remotely fix any issues I had. Many of them also used TiVos, which helped.
> 
> All that is to say that I have been a satisfied customer overall for decades. Their images get worse each year because they insist on ramping up their compression engine to be able to accommodate more shopping channels and foreign language bundles (which are HUGE moneymakers for them). But no matter how bad it got, it was still better than the unwatchable garbage DirecTV and DISH have been peddling for decades.


I do not disagree. They have willingly supported cableCARDs in my TiVo for many years. Only once did they have to roll a truck to get mine working…and the only other difficulty was when I got my Roamio Pro and the TA FW was not updated, but on that one they actually worked with TiVO, Motorola, and pushed an update to me within 3 days, which I thought was amazing given 3 companies had to work together. I have no real issue if they end up killing support, I’ll shop ISP’s (we also have MetroNet Fiber here offering Gb symmetrical), and move to some sort of streaming option. I just wish they would be forthcoming with their plans, and word the dang notice such that us customers can actually understand the plans…


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Rkstr said:


> Agreed regarding the letter, it is the most horribly worded message ever: "...CableCARDs will not be compatible with future service upgrades for some time."
> 
> What exactly does that mean, "for some time".


This explains it pretty well:








Spectrum To STOP supporting Cable Cards????


With Spectrum doing what they're doing with the cable cards, do you think they will pair my card if I put it in my newer box? Yes. Spectrum has changed nothing regarding CC support.




www.tivocommunity.com


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

CommunityMember said:


> Charter has been very clear (in other venues) that they are going to move to high-split for improved HSI upload speeds. And this will mean the end of CableCARD viability in locations that move to high-split (which Charter themselves has stated will actually take years to accomplish across their entire footprint; whether Charter chooses to end support for CableCARDs in advance in locations that are not yet ready to upgrade is unknown). The problem is that while those that understand the underlying technology will be able to understand what the words "high split" would mean, 99+% of Charter customer base have no clue about the underlying technologies that are involved, nor the details, nor the approaches Charter has chosen. And there is no way to educate those customers sufficiently to the point that anything other than vague "future service upgrades" are going to be helpful.


Exactly. Look at what Alaska's largest cable operator, GCI, is doing right now. And keep in mind that GCI is essentially a sibling of Charter, because they're majority owned by the same group that is Charter's largest shareholder (i.e. John Malone). In their largest market, Anchorage, GCI shut down QAM cable TV service at the end of April, forcing any customers still on that platform to migrate to their newer IPTV platform, Yukon TV (or drop GCI-provided TV service completely). Once QAM TV is shut down, a TiVo DVR (or any other CableCARD device) can no longer be used with that TV provider. GCI's QAM shutdown was done to allow the company to begin high-split upgrades to their DOCSIS network in Anchorage this summer. Their plan is to do this in all of their markets across the state between now and 2025, at which point they'll circle back to Anchorage and begin upgrading the DOCSIS network from version 3.1 to 4.0, which will allow even faster download and upload speeds.

Combine that with the fact that Charter just this spring invested a large sum to buy half of Comcast's Flex streaming video platform so that they could use it to provide 4K streaming devices to their own broadband customers starting in 2023. This tells me that, at least in some markets, we're going to see Charter shut down QAM cable TV and implement high-split DOCSIS in 2023. At that point, Spectrum TV will only be available in those markets via streaming (IPTV and/or OTT). And they'll use Flex streaming boxes/sticks as their preferred solution for those customers to access not just their own Spectrum TV app but also other video apps which can be downloaded and billed for through the Comcast/Charter app store (e.g. HBO Max, Disney+, Paramount+, Peacock, etc.).

My understanding is that Charter WorldBox set-top boxes (like Comcast X1 boxes) are hybrid IPTV/QAM devices, so they could theoretically still access Spectrum TV service even in areas where QAM TV has been shut down. But, of course, CableCARD devices like TiVo will not be able to make that leap.

So the bottom line here is that you should not expect your TiVo DVR to work with Spectrum TV by the end of 2023. Depending on where you live, it's certainly _possible_ that it will continue to work with Spectrum TV, because (just as with GCI), it will take Spectrum some time to work their away around their entire footprint doing high-split upgrades. So you might get lucky and be one of the last ones to see Charter shut down your local QAM cable TV service in maybe 2025 or 2026. But there's no question that it's coming.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

michaelj3 said:


> Here is the transcript of my chat w/ Spectrum Support today:
> 
> Hello, thank you for reaching out to Spectrum. I see you have questions about hardware. Please give me a moment to review your information.
> To get started, may I please verify your full address including zip code.
> ...


So you asked for more info, got more info, and then said you didn’t believe what you were told?

So your chat adds what value exactly?


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## CopRock (Jul 13, 2014)

dougdingle said:


> Thanks. The Spectrum 'broadcast fee' on the bill I just got is $21, so add that to $45 and at $66/mo it will cost close to what YouTube TV charges ($65/mo), and which seems a better choice overall - more channels and a 'cloud' DVR that seems to be OK, according to reviews.


Can Spectrum Choice be added without broadcast channels to avoid the $21 fee and just get the 15 channels of your choice ?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

CopRock said:


> Can Spectrum Choice be added without broadcast channels to avoid the $21 fee and just get the 15 channels of your choice ?


No. That broadcast fee is the reason I dropped Spectrum entirely. I loved the service and that plan, but the bogus fees ruined it.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

mdavej said:


> No. That broadcast fee is the reason I dropped Spectrum entirely. I loved the service and that plan, but the bogus fees ruined it.


That bogus fee (and the RSN fee) is a way for the cablecos to rip off the customer by advertising $79/mo and charging $130/mo. Fios finally removed those rip off fees, so at least the price they advertise equals the monthly you pay.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

NashGuy said:


> Exactly. Look at what Alaska's largest cable operator, GCI, is doing right now. And keep in mind that GCI is essentially a sibling of Charter, because they're majority owned by the same group that is Charter's largest shareholder (i.e. John Malone). In their largest market, Anchorage, GCI shut down QAM cable TV service at the end of April, forcing any customers still on that platform to migrate to their newer IPTV platform, Yukon TV (or drop GCI-provided TV service completely). Once QAM TV is shut down, a TiVo DVR (or any other CableCARD device) can no longer be used with that TV provider. GCI's QAM shutdown was done to allow the company to begin high-split upgrades to their DOCSIS network in Anchorage this summer. Their plan is to do this in all of their markets across the state between now and 2025, at which point they'll circle back to Anchorage and begin upgrading the DOCSIS network from version 3.1 to 4.0, which will allow even faster download and upload speeds.
> 
> Combine that with the fact that Charter just this spring invested a large sum to buy half of Comcast's Flex streaming video platform so that they could use it to provide 4K streaming devices to their own broadband customers starting in 2023. This tells me that, at least in some markets, we're going to see Charter shut down QAM cable TV and implement high-split DOCSIS in 2023. At that point, Spectrum TV will only be available in those markets via streaming (IPTV and/or OTT). And they'll use Flex streaming boxes/sticks as their preferred solution for those customers to access not just their own Spectrum TV app but also other video apps which can be downloaded and billed for through the Comcast/Charter app store (e.g. HBO Max, Disney+, Paramount+, Peacock, etc.).
> 
> ...


Thank you for this post. This was what I was trying to do research on to figure out how Charter is dumping Tivo / CableCard support and this is exactly what I was looking for. I assumed that QAM support was likely the issue, though the Charter reps I've spoke to over the phone don't have clue one about what changes are coming, when they're coming and how likely my Tivo EDGE units are going to be boat anchors as far as Charter is concerned. I know we kept hearing about the IPTV bridge option a number of years ago that Charter was working on as a post-CableCard scenario, though we all know where that likely ended up. Having them shift to IPTV makes sense and opens up that bandwidth for DOCSIS 4.0 and beyond.

Since there's no Tivo product that covers ATSC 3.0 yet (or ever), over-the-air support on anything without an ATSC 3.0 tuner is likely to be another line on the horizon that causes the current equipment to be semi-to-completely useless.

The main thing I'm trying to get from Charter is trying to find out the when, so I can plan to be off of them by the time they drop CableCard support. By the end of 2023 could be Jan 1 or Dec 31, so I'd like to get things in order. With AT&T fiber now in my area for 500/500 pricing at the same price as 400/20 Charter service, dropping CableCards makes that a quicker decision to move.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

shrike4242 said:


> The main thing I'm trying to get from Charter is trying to find out the when, so I can plan to be off of them by the time they drop CableCard support. By the end of 2023 could be Jan 1 or Dec 31, so I'd like to get things in order. With AT&T fiber now in my area for 500/500 pricing at the same price as 400/20 Charter service, dropping CableCards makes that a quicker decision to move.


I said 2023, but actually, back in Jan., Charter's CEO stated that "2022 will increase the number of projects to deploy high splits in our service areas" in order to be able to offer symmetrical gigabit speeds on DOCSIS 3.1. I don't know if/where high-split has been done yet by Charter. I certainly have not read of any specific areas where Charter QAM TV has been shut down and, AFAIK, shutting down QAM TV is a prerequisite for high-split. IDK, _maybe_ that isn't true? Maybe GCI (and others) have found it _optimal_ to shut down QAM TV prior to high-split upgrades but Charter thinks otherwise? But I don't think that's true; unless and until that's proven to be the case, my working assumption is that before Charter implements high split in any large geographic area, that upgrade will be immediately preceded by QAM TV shutdown there.

Here's the article I quote from above:








Charter CEO says it’ll ramp high-split rollouts this year


Charter CEO Tom Rutledge mapped out the operator’s priorities for 2022, unveiling plans to accelerate network upgrades and drop some serious cash on rural expansion proje | Charter CEO Tom Rutledge mapped out the operator’s priorities for 2022, unveiling plans to accelerate network upgrades and...




www.fiercetelecom.com





Now, it's noteworthy that that article was published 1/28/22. And then Charter announced their Flex streaming platform joint venture with Comcast three months later on 4/27/22:









Comcast, Charter Form Joint Venture to Launch Nationwide Streaming Platform


Comcast and Charter Communications, the two biggest cable operators in the U.S., are joining forces in the streaming wars. The two companies announced a 50-50 joint venture to develop and launch a …




variety.com





So it's possible that Charter decided in late winter "Y'know, before we shut down QAM TV in places that will impact a meaningful number of customers, maybe we should wait until we have a next-gen streaming device capable of running our Spectrum TV app (and all popular third-party apps) that we can hand them." And based on the reports from late April, it doesn't sound like Charter is going to be handing out those JV-produced Flex-based streaming devices to their customers until early 2023.

So if I had to guess, I'd say we may only see Charter play around with high-split upgrades in small area tests this year, getting their operational plans perfected so that they're ready to go guns blazing as soon as they have a supply of those new 4K HDR streaming devices ready to hand out like candy to existing and new customers.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

shrike4242 said:


> Since there's no Tivo product that covers ATSC 3.0 yet (or ever), over-the-air support on anything without an ATSC 3.0 tuner is likely to be another line on the horizon that causes the current equipment to be semi-to-completely useless.


I have followed the development of ATSC 3.0 for years now and have gone from being a "hoper" to a "noper" on it. I doubt that it will ever succeed in being adopted widely enough by consumers to allow it to fully supplant ATSC 1.0. And even if that DID happen, based on what I understand about the length of consumer TV upgrade cycles, I can't see the ATSC 3.0 viewing audience being big enough, and the ATSC 1.0 viewing audience small enough to allow for the full shutdown of any major network affiliates on 1.0 to happen until at least 2030.

I say all this to tell you that while you may find it worthwhile to invest in an ATSC 3.0 OTA DVR, I don't think you have to worry about existing TiVo (ATSC 1.0) OTA DVRs becoming useless (because they're no longer able to receive local ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, and PBS stations) for many years to come, if ever.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

NashGuy said:


> I said 2023, but actually, back in Jan., Charter's CEO stated that "2022 will increase the number of projects to deploy high splits in our service areas" in order to be able to offer symmetrical gigabit speeds on DOCSIS 3.1. I don't know if/where high-split has been done yet by Charter. I certainly have not read of any specific areas where Charter QAM TV has been shut down and, AFAIK, shutting down QAM TV is a prerequisite for high-split. IDK, _maybe_ that isn't true? Maybe GCI (and others) have found it _optimal_ to shut down QAM TV prior to high-split upgrades but Charter thinks otherwise? But I don't think that's true; unless and until that's proven to be the case, my working assumption is that before Charter implements high split in any large geographic area, that upgrade will be immediately preceded by QAM TV shutdown there.
> 
> Here's the article I quote from above:
> 
> ...


Thank you for those article links, most helpful for more information about the upcoming boondoggle. 

I would think that Charter would likely to shut down QAM before making the high-split as think if they're so gung-ho to put out these repeating notices to people about CableCards no longer being useful, they're likely to have some plan up the pipeline for making that change with at least tentative dates. I've yet to see any major change with Charter go on planned schedule to date and I've been a Charter customer for around 20 years, ending up at Charter via ATT acquisition of TCI and then Charter picking ATT's cable division. I know the date of 07/07/22 has been in the three emails and the one postal-sent notice for the half-price Apple TV 4K or the 24 months of the Spectrum DVR, so I would certainly hope that they're not pulling the plug on my CableCard use at the end of this coming week.

The first time I called them after the first email, that rep didn't know anything of what was going on save that CableCards couldn't be provided, though they would still be supported. Second rep from my second phone call just echoed what was in the emails + notice, that CableCards would eventually disappear from being supported, though didn't know when that would be. Calling their corporate office ended up as a dead end since the operator just shot me over to regular customer care and not someone with a clue of what is going on with this change. Since St Louis is/was Charter's "backyard", I can assume anything that is done with the QAM removal / high-split might be done here first. 



NashGuy said:


> I have followed the development of ATSC 3.0 for years now and have gone from being a "hoper" to a "noper" on it. I doubt that it will ever succeed in being adopted widely enough by consumers to allow it to fully supplant ATSC 1.0. And even if that DID happen, based on what I understand about the length of consumer TV upgrade cycles, I can't see the ATSC 3.0 viewing audience being big enough, and the ATSC 1.0 viewing audience small enough to allow for the full shutdown of any major network affiliates on 1.0 to happen until at least 2030.
> 
> I say all this to tell you that while you may find it worthwhile to invest in an ATSC 3.0 OTA DVR, I don't think you have to worry about existing TiVo (ATSC 1.0) OTA DVRs becoming useless (because they're no longer able to receive local ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, and PBS stations) for many years to come, if ever.


At this point, if my Tivos aren't won't work for Charter any longer, I'll not likely need all of the Edge units I currently have. That would probably be the kick to start working on rolling my own solution as a parallel path for future migration, with anything I'd get would likely have a ATSC 3.0 tuner on-board. CableCards getting phased out across the main cable companies isn't likely a long-term help for Tivo in any way, as I imagine Comcast is going down the same path as Spectrum is in some parallel path.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

shrike4242 said:


> At this point, if my Tivos aren't won't work for Charter any longer, I'll not likely need all of the Edge units I currently have. That would probably be the kick to start working on rolling my own solution as a parallel path for future migration, with anything I'd get would likely have a ATSC 3.0 tuner on-board.


If you're a OTA and/or tech hobbyist, or you just really like the idea of being able to record and store TV on your own hard drives, then it might be worthwhile for you to invest in ATSC 3.0 OTA DVRs. But as I've said before, I don't really see 3.0 taking off. We're seeing little-to-zero signs that the major broadcast networks owned by global media powerhouses (Disney, Comcast/NBCU, Paramount) have any interest in supporting 3.0 with, for instance, 4K HDR primetime content (or even 1080p HDR content). Meanwhile, CBS is already putting some of their primetime shows next-day on Paramount+ in 4K HDR. I see all kinds of reasons to believe that these big media companies see the successor to ATSC 1.0 and the existing national network + local affiliate system to be, not ATSC 3.0, but rather their own direct-to-consumer subscription and free ad-supported apps. My guess is that OTA TV will largely cease to exist by the mid-30s. We'll just stream everything, both national and local content, through one app or another, either paid or free.



shrike4242 said:


> CableCards getting phased out across the main cable companies isn't likely a long-term help for Tivo in any way, as I imagine Comcast is going down the same path as Spectrum is in some parallel path.


Comcast is the only major cableco to say that they're doing mid-split rather than high-split upgrades to DOCSIS 3.1 in the next couple years as an interim solution before then rolling out full-duplex DOCSIS 4.0. (Charter and others plan to do high-split and then extended-spectrum D4.0.) My understanding is that it's more feasible to retain QAM TV with mid-split than high-split, so it's certainly possible that Comcast doesn't kill QAM until they begin doing D4.0 upgrades in initial markets in 2025 or 2026. 

As for TiVo, they know they're powerless to stop any of this. They know CableCARD is dead. When the FCC pulled the plug on requiring TV operators to support it a year or two ago, that was the obituary. TiVo's future (such as it is) is in offer hardware/software platforms for pay TV operators who license their solutions and, they now hope, in creating a smart TV app platform, although I think they're offering way too little, too late to be a viable competitor in that market against the likes of Google, Roku, Amazon, Apple, Samsung, LG, Comcast/Charter, Vizio, etc.

I think it's _possible_ that around 2027, both Comcast and Charter just stop selling cable TV as we've known it and instead just offer to sell their broadband customers whatever combination of app-based third-party services they want. I suspect that by that point, those apps owned by traditional media companies will have seen their streaming services fully cannibalize all the content on their linear cable channels and probably even offer live stream of their most popular linear channels in the app itself. Imagine, for instance, if HBO Max (or whatever it's called by then) offer live streams of CNN, TBS, TNT, HBO, Cartoon, HGTV, Food, Discovery, TLC, etc. right inside the app, along with all their new and old content on-demand, along with all the other stuff they offer that's not on any linear channel (e.g. Max Originals). You could get all your live news and sports that Warner Bros. Discovery offers right in that app. And it would be a similar situation with Disney's Disney+ and ESPN+ apps; Paramount's Paramount+; and NBCU's Peacock. (Fox right now has a free Tubi app and a subscription Fox Nation app; I suspect we'll see them offer something like a paid upgrade tier in Tubi that will stream live Fox sports content while all Fox broadcast network content will stream free in Tubi.)

Bottom line is that the future is streaming apps. May as well adjust to that reality.


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## zenithblackdial (6 mo ago)

Hello group,

This is my first time visiting your forum which I found doing a search for Spectrum's cable card news. I was having an issue today with my TiVo Bolt missing a few channels and called Spectrum tech support. The rep said, "you do know we are discontinuing cable cards? We sent out email notices." I told the rep I have not received an email. After rattling off a list of cities, she notified me that my market is not yet on the list for discontinuation. I am in the Tampa Bay area.

I currently have a master TiVo Bolt unit and 6 Mini/Lux units around the house. If the cable card and tuning adapter are eliminated, that really jams me up. I will have to re-imagine my entire house. I love TiVo's intuitive software, which I've used for over 20 years. I have despised other DVRs I've tried (eg. Spectrum in a temp corporate NYC apartment).

What are my options if I get the cancellation here in Florida. When Verizon sold out to Frontier, they abandoned FiOs TV. I currently record four news channels daily for my occupation. What about getting TV to all my other TVs in the house without having cable boxes everywhere? I hope there is a viable solution. This clearly torpedoes a large segment of TiVo's business model and leaves me with a pile of obsolete gear.

ZBD


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

dougdingle said:


> They have a dedicated support line for cable cards and TAs, and it's not the usual desk jockeys reading from a script. Those people know their business, and never failed to remotely fix any issues I had. Many of them also used TiVos, which helped.


The L-TWC dedicated CableCARD support group (which I believe was based in upstate NY due to the legacy of the Newhouse family) were, as you say, excellent. Sometime after the acquisition of L-TWC, and the (somewhat later) subsuming of the L-TWC CSR's into the Charter customer service approaches the dedicated number then forwarded to the general CSR pool, and that previous CableCARD group was (rumored) to be initially moved to a dedicated higher level tech support (no longer directly contactable by customers), and likely some moved to general CSR support (as while CableCARDs still exist, the numbers are small, and getting smaller).

I was fortunate enough to be able to deal with the L-TWC dedicated CableCARD support for a client, and they were, indeed, excellent. For another, somewhat later engagement, I ended up with the general CSR team (even after dialing the dedicated number), and things worked well, but from their statements (and struggles), it was clear they were not the experts I had previously dealt with.


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## PaulGfromLA (6 mo ago)

dougdingle said:


> Thanks. Unfortunately, although I live in a major American city, I am in an RF-free bowl canyon where I have no off-air. Zero. I don't get TV, or FM radio, or cell service. I can get AM skip on summer nights where AM stations 1,500 miles away come in just fine, though.
> 
> It's kind of bizarre and limits my options, has made me a cableco slave for decades.


So, you are the perfect person for my questions. You are in a bowl. When the FCC mandated retransmission of local TV to service rural America, it was a real issue. When I bought my Series 1 in 1999, there was still a big issue needing taxpayer subsidy for people like you. This adds significant money to all cable bills. Would you help end the subsidy?

Next Question. TiVo used to be the answer to advertising. We watch and TiVo a ton using an RF switcher wired from cable box transceiver to receivers on slave monitors anywhere...just need multiple remotes. With two TiVos and HDDs we can store far more than we need. The whole point was bypassing the ads....How can you all do that anymore unless you pay through the nose for AD Free Streaming. Shouldn't consumers unite to convince Congress and the Agencies to allow TiVo or similar to compete in the market as uniquely being able to capture cable or some stream tiles without ads?


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## PaulGfromLA (6 mo ago)

zenithblackdial said:


> Hello group,
> 
> This is my first time visiting your forum which I found doing a search for Spectrum's cable card news. I was having an issue today with my TiVo Bolt missing a few channels and called Spectrum tech support. The rep said, "you do know we are discontinuing cable cards? We sent out email notices." I told the rep I have not received an email. After rattling off a list of cities, she notified me that my market is not yet on the list for discontinuation. I am in the Tampa Bay area.
> 
> ...


What about getting TV to all my other TVs in the house without having cable boxes everywhere?
You can use RF and buy a wired RF switcher box that take up to 3 inputs (e.g., 2 cable boxes and CCTV for Security). You wire the home from a central core where you put the boxes and at each TV location you place a red eye nearby (RF receiver), On each output source you place a transceiver IR eye which is wired to the switch. The switch outputs all channels from one source on channel 65, next source 67. final source 69. You need remotes wherever you have a monitor.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

zenithblackdial said:


> Hello group,
> 
> This is my first time visiting your forum which I found doing a search for Spectrum's cable card news. I was having an issue today with my TiVo Bolt missing a few channels and called Spectrum tech support. The rep said, "you do know we are discontinuing cable cards? We sent out email notices." I told the rep I have not received an email. After rattling off a list of cities, she notified me that my market is not yet on the list for discontinuation. I am in the Tampa Bay area.
> 
> ...


To be able to help you know what you should adopt as your next pay TV solution, I'd need you to answer a few Qs:

1. Tell me about those news channel recordings. How many hours per day do you record and how long do you store the recordings? Are you doing live on-the-fly recordings or do you have recordings set up in advance to always record specific news shows? Do you need to be able to indefinitely save local copies of those recordings so that you can, for instance, edit those videos on your home computer, e.g. stitching together bits of various news shows into a custom newsreel?

2. How many different TVs in your home do you need to access cable TV _at the same time_? For instance, maybe you want TV service available on 7 different TVs but you never have more than 4 of them playing live or recorded TV at the same time?

Unless your TiVo Bolt can be used to receive and record OTA TV from an antenna (and that's something you'd care to do), then you probably need to just list your TiVo equipment on eBay or elsewhere pretty soon and get whatever money out of it that you still can. Because once lots of Charter Spectrum cable TV customers around the country can no longer use their TiVos with that service, you'll see a flood of used TiVo DVRs for sale, driving down their value. May as well figure out your next set-up now and get on with the changes. But to help you do that, I need to know more about the way you use live and recorded TV, especially for your work-from-home job.


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## PaulGfromLA (6 mo ago)

NashGuy said:


> To be able to help you know what you should adopt as your next pay TV solution, I'd need you to answer a few Qs:
> 
> 1. Tell me about those news channel recordings. How many hours per day do you record and how long do you store the recordings? Are you doing live on-the-fly recordings or do you have recordings set up in advance to always record specific news shows? Do you need to be able to indefinitely save local copies of those recordings so that you can, for instance, edit those videos on your home computer, e.g. stitching together bits of various news shows into a custom newsreel?
> 
> ...


I used to have many more....now down to 4 tvs. No more than 2 simultaneous watchers 1080p or 4k. Can store 600 hours. 120 is enough. No stitching at this time. Need all rhe CBS and NBC secondary nets + AMC. Getting all from cable w/out commercials. Hate trouble bypassing commercials. Using 2 Premiers lifetime. Also wired rf to go to as many screens as remotes using pro grade RF switcher. Gonna miss the set up when we move in September


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

> How can you all do that anymore unless you pay through the nose for AD Free Streaming.


You can make a choice to pay more for no ads, or less for content with ads. I chose no ads on the services where I had a choice. I do not subscribe to or use streaming services where there is only ad-based content available for now, although I'm considering YouTubeTV, which is ad-based only. I don't consider an extra $5/month to be 'paying through the nose'. You pay the $5/month extra per service, or you watch ads.



> Shouldn't consumers unite to convince Congress and the Agencies to allow TiVo or similar to compete in the market as uniquely being able to capture cable or some stream tiles without ads?


Totally unrealistic. Never, ever going to happen. 

And nothing is currently legally able to capture streaming content locally (at your house) from services where you have to pay for the stream.

But the good part is that you don't need your complex current setup to feed a bunch of sets. I have a Roamio and four Minis, and when I walk away from TiVo later this year, I can just put a $30 Amazon FireStick4K at every set and have the same content available everywhere. No recording of content, but most of it is always available so it's not an issue for me.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

CommunityMember said:


> The L-TWC dedicated CableCARD support group (which I believe was based in upstate NY due to the legacy of the Newhouse family) were, as you say, excellent. Sometime after the acquisition of L-TWC, and the (somewhat later) subsuming of the L-TWC CSR's into the Charter customer service approaches the dedicated number then forwarded to the general CSR pool, and that previous CableCARD group was (rumored) to be initially moved to a dedicated higher level tech support (no longer directly contactable by customers), and likely some moved to general CSR support (as while CableCARDs still exist, the numbers are small, and getting smaller).


I don’t know what “L-TWC” means but yes, their CC support was based in Buffalo.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

PaulGfromLA said:


> Shouldn't consumers unite to convince Congress and the Agencies to allow TiVo or similar to compete in the market as uniquely being able to capture cable or some stream tiles without ads?


Tivo is allowed to do whatever they want to complete. No one is stopping them.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

PaulGfromLA said:


> I used to have many more....now down to 4 tvs. No more than 2 simultaneous watchers 1080p or 4k. Can store 600 hours. 120 is enough. No stitching at this time. Need all rhe CBS and NBC secondary nets + AMC. Getting all from cable w/out commercials. Hate trouble bypassing commercials. Using 2 Premiers lifetime. Also wired rf to go to as many screens as remotes using pro grade RF switcher. Gonna miss the set up when we move in September


I'm not sure what you mean by "CBS and NBC secondary nets".

How long do you need to store your recordings? If you're OK with your recordings automatically deleting after 9 months, then you might be OK using a streaming cable TV service with cloud DVR such as YouTube TV or DirecTV Stream, both of which offer all the big 5 locals (ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, PBS), plus lots of popular cable nets including AMC, starting at $65/mo for YouTube TV or $70/mo for DirecTV Stream. You use their apps for Roku, Apple TV, Fire TV, or Android TV to access live and recorded TV. DirecTV Stream also optionally sells their own custom streaming box with cable-like voice remote for either $120 new or $50 refurbished; you get a 12-month warranty either way. You don't rent those boxes, you buy them to keep.

If you need to keep your recordings indefinitely, or for some reason need to be able to store them on a local hard drive in your home, then I would encourage you to consider combining either Spectrum cable TV or a streaming cable TV service (e.g. DirecTV Stream) with Channels DVR, which does offer one-click ad-skipping in recordings. (Services like YouTube TV and DirecTV Stream do not offer one-click ad-skipping but you can manually fast forward through ads in your cloud DVR recordings.) If you go this route, you would watch live and recorded TV in the Channels app for Apple TV, Fire TV or Android TV. (They do not have a Roku app.) In addition to your cable service, you'll need to pay $8/mo or $80/yr for Channels DVR, with its server software running on your PC, Mac or NAS, where it will store your local DVR recordings on that device's hard drive (either internal or external USB).









Channels — Live TV & DVR


Watch and record your favorite programs on every TV and device. A joy to use and simple to set up.



getchannels.com





About Channels DVR ad-skip feature:








Commercial Skipping


Learn, get started, and get help with Channels.



getchannels.com





One other note: in some areas and with some pay TV providers, Channels cannot stream your local major network stations (ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, CW) via TV everywhere log-in. If that were the case for you, you would need to add an OTA antenna and an HD HomeRun OTA tuner (starting at about $100) to your Channels DVR set-up, which does add some extra expense and complexity. But assuming you get good antenna reception at your location, it's not a big deal.


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## PaulGfromLA (6 mo ago)

cwoody222 said:


> Tivo is allowed to do whatever they want to complete. No one is stopping them.


Charter has a monopoly on the last mile to your house. TiVo (and others) have been permitted to hitch hike on that cable or Fiber (rare) by the FCC. Once cable cards lose support the monopoly (IMO) is restored.


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## PaulGfromLA (6 mo ago)

NashGuy said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by "CBS and NBC secondary nets".
> 
> How long do you need to store your recordings? If you're OK with your recordings automatically deleting after 9 months, then you might be OK using a streaming cable TV service with cloud DVR such as YouTube TV or DirecTV Stream, both of which offer all the big 5 locals (ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, PBS), plus lots of popular cable nets including AMC, starting at $65/mo for YouTube TV or $70/mo for DirecTV Stream. You use their apps for Roku, Apple TV, Fire TV, or Android TV to access live and recorded TV. DirecTV Stream also optionally sells their own custom streaming box with cable-like voice remote for either $120 new or $50 refurbished; you get a 12-month warranty either way. You don't rent those boxes, you buy them to keep.
> 
> ...


My bad generality...the secondary networks (nets) I was referring to are USA, CNBC, MSNBC. AMC, A&E, Sundance, TBS etc. Using my Premieres and Hard Drives. I can capture up to 4 simultaneous programs and watch then weeks or monrths later..same with Dodge Baseball and HBO and SHOW with my current cable card package in the LA Metro. I can add add on the other Premiere input all channels captured OTA with my roof antenna. I can also use my Roku Soectrum (tile or channel) to back into Channel 1 or "on Demand". Streaming I subscribe to also can be stored using TiVo. What should I do when the Monopoly provider of cable to my house cuts my TiVo cards?


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

PaulGfromLA said:


> Charter has a monopoly on the last mile to your house. TiVo (and others) have been permitted to hitch hike on that cable or Fiber (rare) by the FCC. Once cable cards lose support the monopoly (IMO) is restored.


Charter has a monopoly in the location you are discussing, and that at its heart is the issue.
Far too few communities have competitive delivery systems, I'm lucky in that I can choose from 2 separate Cable providers and Verizon FiOS


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

PaulGfromLA said:


> Charter has a monopoly on the last mile to your house. TiVo (and others) have been permitted to hitch hike on that cable or Fiber (rare) by the FCC. Once cable cards lose support the monopoly (IMO) is restored.


Removing CC support does not remove TiVo’s freedom of ability to compete.

They can develop new technology and/or software. They can lease their services to existing companies. They can create their own IPTV service.

Tivo existed before cable cards existed. They can exist afterwards. It’s in their hands, not the government’s.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

PaulGfromLA said:


> My bad generality...the secondary networks (nets) I was referring to are USA, CNBC, MSNBC. AMC, A&E, Sundance, TBS etc. Using my Premieres and Hard Drives. I can capture up to 4 simultaneous programs and watch then weeks or monrths later..same with Dodge Baseball and HBO and SHOW with my current cable card package in the LA Metro. I can add add on the other Premiere input all channels captured OTA with my roof antenna. I can also use my Roku Soectrum (tile or channel) to back into Channel 1 or "on Demand". Streaming I subscribe to also can be stored using TiVo. What should I do when the Monopoly provider of cable to my house cuts my TiVo cards?


Tivo does not store your streaming shows. It simply provides convenient bookmarks to help you keep a list of what you are currently watching.

If you need or prefer local storage (a HD in your home) for your cable channel recordings, you’ll need a cable DVR or something like Tablo.

If local storage playback isn’t a concern, there are numerous streaming services you can consider.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

cwoody222 said:


> I don’t know what “L-TWC” means but yes, their CC supportwas based in Buffalo.


Legacy TWC, I would assume.


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## random_pawn00 (Oct 2, 2019)

If Charter Spectrum pushes this issue, they will lose a cable TV sub. It is bad enough they just raised all rates again. Since the Charter merger with TWC, we have gone from ~$150 / month to ~$210 a month. That is without any of their boxes.

It would probably even save us money to switch to Hulu+ (already have Disney+). We keep the Tivo Bolt+ for now (lifetime guides). We also have an antenna (and HDHomeRun Quatro, Plex, and Synology DVR). Picks up more channels than Spectrum sends (with their non-optional fee) and we do not have to pay for OTA.


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## random_pawn00 (Oct 2, 2019)

cwoody222 said:


> Removing CC support does not remove TiVo’s freedom of ability to compete.
> 
> They can develop new technology and/or software. They can lease their services to existing companies. They can create their own IPTV service.
> 
> Tivo existed before cable cards existed. They can exist afterwards. It’s in their hands, not the government’s.


The problem is Spectrum is a monopoly.

Tivo will do whatever Tivo thinks is best for the continued success of Tivo. Spectrum does whatever it wants.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

PaulGfromLA said:


> My bad generality...the secondary networks (nets) I was referring to are USA, CNBC, MSNBC. AMC, A&E, Sundance, TBS etc. Using my Premieres and Hard Drives. I can capture up to 4 simultaneous programs and watch then weeks or monrths later..same with Dodge Baseball and HBO and SHOW with my current cable card package in the LA Metro. I can add add on the other Premiere input all channels captured OTA with my roof antenna. I can also use my Roku Soectrum (tile or channel) to back into Channel 1 or "on Demand". Streaming I subscribe to also can be stored using TiVo. What should I do when the Monopoly provider of cable to my house cuts my TiVo cards?


Again, IF YOU WISH TO STORE YOUR DVR RECORDINGS INDEFINITELY ON HARD DRIVES INSIDE YOUR OWN HOME, my suggestion to you is that do the following two things:

1. Figure out which pay TV service offers all the channels you care about for the cheapest amount of money. The best place to do that is the following website. Just type in your zip code, select all of your "must-have" channels and it will show you your options and how much they cost.









Suppose... you could design your perfect TV service


Suppose lets you select your favorite TV channels, searches billions of combinations of cable, satellite and streaming TV services, and finds the best for you.




www.suppose.tv





2. Decide on a hardware set-up that will allow you to pair the TV service you selected in step 1 with Channels DVR, which will record your streaming cable "TV Everywhere" channels and, if you want, can also record local OTA TV channels from your antenna if you buy an HDHomeRun tuner. Be aware that you'll need a Windows PC, Mac or NAS to run the Channels software on, but hopefully you already have one in your home (doesn't need to be a late model, powerful computer, old and cheap is usually fine). You can read up on how to set up and use Channels DVR here:









Channels — Live TV & DVR


Watch and record your favorite programs on every TV and device. A joy to use and simple to set up.



getchannels.com





If you want to buy an HDHomeRun tuner to record from your antenna, go to the link below and click the "OTA Promo" icon on the screen. You'll want to choose between the FlexDuo model for $110 (has 2 ATSC 1.0 tuners), the FlexQuatro for $155 (has 4 ATSC 1.0 tuners), or the Flex 4K model for $200 (has 4 tuners total, including both ATSC 1.0 and 3.0). Note that you can also buy used ones on eBay for less (which is what I did):





__





SiliconDust SHOP – SiliconDust – HDHomeRun®






shop.silicondust.com


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## random_pawn00 (Oct 2, 2019)

NashGuy said:


> Again, IF YOU WISH TO STORE YOUR DVR RECORDINGS INDEFINITELY ON HARD DRIVES INSIDE YOUR OWN HOME, my suggestion to you is that do the following two things:
> 
> 1. Figure out which pay TV service offers all the channels you care about for the cheapest amount of money. The best place to do that is the following website. Just type in your zip code, select all of your "must-have" channels and it will show you your options and how much they cost.
> 
> ...


Are they going to add a Roku Channels app?


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## Hamstring (Feb 13, 2007)

Does anyone really need a dvr anymore?


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Hamstring said:


> Does anyone really need a dvr anymore?


Yes..


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Absolutely, if you want the best playback experience. Most streaming apps SUCK compared to playing a show from Tivo. Quickplay has been invaluable for me, frex, and I think that only some YouTube apps offer it across all streamers.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

random_pawn00 said:


> The problem is Spectrum is a monopoly.
> 
> Tivo will do whatever Tivo thinks is best for the continued success of Tivo. Spectrum does whatever it wants.


His point was that the HSI carrier is irrelevant in a world of IPTV, and Tivo can choose to play in that space or not when their DVRs stop working.


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## random_pawn00 (Oct 2, 2019)

slowbiscuit said:


> His point was that the HSI carrier is irrelevant in a world of IPTV, and Tivo can choose to play in that space or not when their DVRs stop working.


And what? I said Tivo will do whatever it decides to do.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Hamstring said:


> Does anyone really need a dvr anymore?


Gosh, your Interwebs connection must be up 100% of the time, rain or shine.

The rest of us here like to have offline storage for those times when it goes in the toilet.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

slowbiscuit said:


> Absolutely, if you want the best playback experience. Most streaming apps SUCK compared to playing a show from Tivo. Quickplay has been invaluable for me, frex, and I think that only some YouTube apps offer it across all streamers.


I agree that the ballistics in most streaming apps are garbage compared to any TiVo. And that the TiVo remote is, quite possibly, the best remote design ever seen.

But then there's the fact that proper streaming 4K images and multichannel sound are so vastly superior to the compressed to hell twenty year old codec HD crap that cable sends out, it's no contest at all if you want high quality pictures and sound. Spectrum's 10 Mb/s MPEG content is just incredible trash. That's not TiVo's fault, but in the end that's what TiVo users get to watch in many markets.


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## sroberts225 (8 mo ago)

bueller555 said:


> August 22? Was that in writing or in speaking to someone from Spectrum?


I've got EATEL (now REV) as my cable provider... local only to south Louisiana... I rec'd a notice from the USPS and talked to a rep on the phone...


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

sroberts225 said:


> I've got EATEL (now REV) as my cable provider... local only to south Louisiana... I rec'd a notice from the USPS and talked to a rep on the phone...


Did they say they’re simply stopping to support cable cards? (If so, why?) Or are they switching to an incompatible system like IPTV?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

cwoody222 said:


> Did they say they’re simply stopping to support cable cards? (If so, why?) Or are they switching to an incompatible system like IPTV?


IPTV isn't the reason since Spectrum isn't really doing that yet. Spectrum's upload speed boost changes result in a "high-split" that will walk on cable card frequencies. That's the reason for the emails. It's all explained in reports posted earlier in the thread.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

mdavej said:


> IPTV isn't the reason since Spectrum isn't really doing that yet. Spectrum's upload speed boost changes result in a "high-split" that will walk on cable card frequencies. That's the reason for the emails. It's all explained in reports posted earlier in the thread.


I was asking sroberts about his experience with Rev.


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## Hamstring (Feb 13, 2007)

dianebrat said:


> Yes..


I mean they have online ones with 4K etc. I just don’t use mine that much. Having a big sale soon. Lifetime on all.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

dougdingle said:


> . . . proper streaming 4K images and multichannel sound are so vastly superior to the compressed to hell twenty year old codec HD crap that cable sends out, it's no contest at all if you want high quality pictures and sound.


Amen to that. Even comparing HD streams to HD programming on linear cable is no contest. After watching _Better Call Saul_ episodes on VOD at AMC+, the recordings on my TiVo from the Comcast AMC channel look like they were filmed through a cheesecloth.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

random_pawn00 said:


> And what? I said Tivo will do whatever it decides to do.


Yes, but Spectrum being a monopoly has nothing to do with it.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

random_pawn00 said:


> Are they going to add a Roku Channels app?


My _guess_ is that Channels does not plan to ever develop a version of their app for Roku. They launched back in 2015 with just an Apple TV app and now, nearly 7 years later, there's still no Roku app. 

My understanding is that Roku has always been a more difficult platform to code apps for. If you code an app for iPhone, then it's very easy to tweak that codebase to run on Apple TV (or vice versa). If you code an app for Android phones, then it's very easy to tweak that codebase to run on both Google's Android TV and Amazon Fire TV. And those just happen to be the five platforms that Channels supports with their app. They're a small company, so they have to be careful about how they devote their time. I guess they just don't believe that spending the time and money on developing and supporting a Roku app would bring them enough additional business to justify the cost.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Hamstring said:


> I mean they have *online ones with 4K etc*. I just don’t use mine that much. Having a big sale soon. Lifetime on all.


How do you have access to those when you leave that subscription/cloud service and stop paying them? 
Therein lies the rub, even if Comcast offered an unlimited cloud DVR, I can't take it with me, my Tivo's have been connected to at least 3 different providers, I always have access to things I recorded 3 providers ago, and I can save them if I really want to in 90% of the cases, that's not the same with an online product.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

dianebrat said:


> How do you have access to those when you leave that subscription/cloud service and stop paying them?
> Therein lies the rub, *even if Comcast offered an unlimited cloud DVR, I can't take it with me*, my Tivo's have been connected to at least 3 different providers, I always have access to things I recorded 3 providers ago, and I can save them if I really want to in 90% of the cases, that's not the same with an online product.


What makes you think that you can't access Comcast's cloud DVR away from home? (ETA: Oh, I see now that you mean take with you if you leave that provider. Sorry for the misunderstanding!)


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

dianebrat said:


> How do you have access to those when you leave that subscription/cloud service and stop paying them?
> Therein lies the rub, even if Comcast offered an unlimited cloud DVR, I can't take it with me, my Tivo's have been connected to at least 3 different providers, I always have access to things I recorded 3 providers ago, and I can save them if I really want to in 90% of the cases, that's not the same with an online product.


Yes, the days of being able to build your own personal library of recordings that you can keep indefinitely are coming to an end. It was easy to do with VHS, became more difficult but still do-able with the TiVo DVR, but in the streaming era of cloud DVR and on-demand titles, it's impossible. (Well, Channels DVR combined with streaming TV-everywhere channels is a loophole that still makes it possible, at least for now...)


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## sroberts225 (8 mo ago)

cwoody222 said:


> Did they say they’re simply stopping to support cable cards? (If so, why?) Or are they switching to an incompatible system like IPTV?


the only explanation I got was their new system (software, hardware...?) was not compatible with cable cards... 
they insisted I accept two set-top boxes to continue viewing... I turned them down, of course...
just signed up for YouTubeTV... good selection of channels and unlimited (DVR) cloud storage of my favorite programs...


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## Microman66 (Nov 29, 2004)

This explains a lot. Guy is pretty good.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

We got screwed when the FCC didn't have the balls to require an IPTV access standard. You'd think this is what gov't is supposed to do (i.e. standards) but you'd be wrong, although somehow it was perfectly ok to do ATSC 3.0.


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## Johnny Stigler (Jun 10, 2020)

https://www.nexttv.com/news/charter-cuts-off-cablecard-support?utm_source=SmartBrief&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=241BFF69-1938-421F-A5A7-DCA24C4C53CF&utm_content=2884CDF8-2DC5-41EF-913F-5F409CC12035&utm_term=b6f7d907-0585-46db-b760-ebcafea2193a



*Charter to Cut Off CableCARD Support*

By  Daniel Frankel  published 1 day ago

Network upgrades will render already obsolete cable-TV security standard utterly useless for the small number of loyal cable customers still using it in their TiVo and SiliconDust DVRs 

I know this has been discussed but here is an article from NEXT TV NEWSLETTER
JS


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

What's interesting to me is that Charter seems to be implying that the only thing ending anytime soon is support for CableCARD --i.e. that they do NOT plan to get rid of QAM cable TV more broadly, and switch over to IPTV-only, as their Alaskan "cousin" GCI recently did in order to also make high-split upgrades to their data network. Charter says that the reason their high-split upgrades will eliminate CableCARD support is because it will eliminate the specific upper frequency that CableCARDs use for OOB (out-of-band) upstream communication. But they also raise the possibility that they may be able to simply shift that OOB frequency even higher after the high-split upgrade. In other words, Charter is saying "We may be able to bring support for CableCARD back in the relatively near future after initially dumping it." 

While HDHomeRun CableCARD devices can apparently be software updated in order to use a hypothetical new higher OOB frequency in the future, it's unclear if that's possible for some, or any, TiVo DVRs. Frankly, I can't see why Charter would even bother to try and re-instate CableCARD support, given how few customers even use it. Based on the FCC's last public release of the numbers of CableCARDs in use a year or two ago, I calculated that they represented only about 0.5% of all eligible cable TV subscribers in the nation.

Perhaps Charter is simply raising that possibility to soften the blow in terms of the media coverage that they're getting now over yanking support for TiVo? As I say, it don't really see how it's in their economic interest to keep CableCARD alive, especially if it's not possible for TiVo DVRs, only other less-popular CableCARD devices such as HDHomeRun tuners.

And as I say, I have to wonder how much longer Charter will even support QAM TV more broadly. My guess has been that once they start getting big shipments of those new 4K HDR streaming devices in stock, from their new joint venture with Comcast -- which isn't expected until next year -- they'll go market-by-market handing and mailing those out to customers in order to get all their Spectrum cable TV subs switched over to accessing it via their IPTV app and then shut up QAM TV completely. Guess we'll see what unfolds in Charter-land next year...


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

slowbiscuit said:


> We got screwed when the FCC didn't have the balls to require an IPTV access standard. You'd think this is what gov't is supposed to do (i.e. standards) but you'd be wrong, although somehow it was perfectly ok to do ATSC 3.0.


There was a half-hearted attempt by the Obama FCC to do that -- it was dubbed the "Unlock the Box" initiative -- but it was complicated and of course got major pushback from the pay TV operators. And in order to be fair, I suppose it would have had to apply not just to multi-channel pay TV services (i.e. "cable TV") but also on-demand services like Netflix and Prime Video. In other words, it would have offered a way for consumers to pick whatever hardware, _with its particular software and aggregating user interface,_ they wanted to serve as a front-end for their various video subscription content to flow into.

But the rationale for CableCARD was never mainly about choice of software and UI but rather simply to offer consumers a way to use their chosen retail _hardware device,_ i.e. to let us pick a box we could own rather than be forced to rent whatever crappy box the cable operator pushed on us. Pay video operators argued to the FCC that this was now possible thanks to the rise of Roku, Apple TV, Fire TV, smart TVs, etc., giving consumers WAY more choice in owned access hardware than we ever had under the CableCARD regime (and with way more participation from consumers). The future, the operators argued, was through operator designed and supplied apps which would support a range of the most popular retail hardware platforms.

And ultimately, the FCC found that argument hard to disagree with.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> What's interesting to me is that Charter seems to be implying that the only thing ending anytime soon is support for CableCARD --i.e. that they do NOT plan to get rid of QAM cable TV more broadly, and switch over to IPTV-only, as their Alaskan "cousin" GCI recently did in order to also make high-split upgrades to their data network. Charter says that the reason their high-split upgrades will eliminate CableCARD support is because it will eliminate the specific upper frequency that CableCARDs use for OOB (out-of-band) upstream communication. But they also raise the possibility that they may be able to simply shift that OOB frequency even higher after the high-split upgrade. In other words, Charter is saying "We may be able to bring support for CableCARD back in the relatively near future after initially dumping it."
> 
> While HDHomeRun CableCARD devices can apparently be software updated in order to use a hypothetical new higher OOB frequency in the future, it's unclear if that's possible for some, or any, TiVo DVRs. Frankly, I can't see why Charter would even bother to try and re-instate CableCARD support, given how few customers even use it. Based on the FCC's last public release of the numbers of CableCARDs in use a year or two ago, I calculated that they represented only about 0.5% of all eligible cable TV subscribers in the nation.
> 
> ...


The sad part is that if the current Spectrum app is any indication, their streaming video quality is going to be the same compressed to hell garbage that they're sending down the cable wire now. For people used to HD streams from real providers, their stuff looks like poorly upscaled standard def.

People are getting acclimated to high quality images from their streaming suppliers. If they don't up their game, Charter and Spectrum will become the new low rez side channels. Without the monopoly status they've enjoyed for decades, their TV offering will sink without a trace. They have no idea how to compete, and even less than that on how to compete on image quality. They are quickly going to settle on being just another ISP where in many areas they still have their monoply (but not for much longer).


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## random_pawn00 (Oct 2, 2019)

slowbiscuit said:


> Yes, but Spectrum being a monopoly has nothing to do with it.


Once again, Tivo will do whatever it wishes to do.


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## random_pawn00 (Oct 2, 2019)

dougdingle said:


> The sad part is that if the current Spectrum app is any indication, their streaming video quality is going to be the same compressed to hell garbage that they're sending down the cable wire now. For people used to HD streams from real providers, their stuff looks like poorly upscaled standard def.
> 
> People are getting acclimated to high quality images from their streaming suppliers. If they don't up their game, Charter and Spectrum will become the new low rez side channels. Without the monopoly status they've enjoyed for decades, their TV offering will sink without a trace. They have no idea how to compete, and even less than that on how to compete on image quality. They are quickly going to settle on being just another ISP where in many areas they still have their monoply (but not for much longer).


No doubt. The quality of the signal is less. You also pay $21 for OTA signals which are delayed in reception, reduced in quality, and only a subset of the channels available. The savings from the Tivo (lifetime guide) updates has saved some money for us from the receiver/DVR service fees.

Given the current developments in this space (I care less about TV, but my family watches it), we are preparing to improve quality of the service and if we save more money (which preliminary checking shows around $50 / month saving with equivalent programming) great! I can only hope competition in the streaming / live tv space remains and forces competitive offerings. How Tivo responds, no idea. I have had enough of Charter / Spectrum.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Johnny Stigler said:


> https://www.nexttv.com/news/charter-cuts-off-cablecard-support?utm_source=SmartBrief&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=241BFF69-1938-421F-A5A7-DCA24C4C53CF&utm_content=2884CDF8-2DC5-41EF-913F-5F409CC12035&utm_term=b6f7d907-0585-46db-b760-ebcafea2193a
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can’t read that article.

Is there anything new or just a rehash of Zatz?








Charter Will Be Kicking TiVo To The Curb


By way of TechHive and the TiVo Community, we learn that Charter Communications has alerted Spectrum cable customers to replace TiVo ahead of obsolescence: As we continue to upgrade our networks and technology, CableCARDs will not be compatible with future service upgrades for some time. We have...




zatznotfunny.com


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## SirKnowsALot (Jun 3, 2015)

cwoody222 said:


> I can’t read that article.
> 
> Is there anything new or just a rehash of Zatz?
> 
> ...


Basically the same info. Try this link instead: https://www.nexttv.com/news/charter-cuts-off-cablecard-support


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

dougdingle said:


> The sad part is that if the current Spectrum app is any indication, their streaming video quality is going to be the same compressed to hell garbage that they're sending down the cable wire now. For people used to HD streams from real providers, their stuff looks like poorly upscaled standard def.
> 
> People are getting acclimated to high quality images from their streaming suppliers. If they don't up their game, Charter and Spectrum will become the new low rez side channels. Without the monopoly status they've enjoyed for decades, their TV offering will sink without a trace. They have no idea how to compete, and even less than that on how to compete on image quality. They are quickly going to settle on being just another ISP where in many areas they still have their monoply (but not for much longer).


Yeah. Similar situation, I think, at Comcast, where they provide all HD channels in overly-compressed 720p (regardless of whether the network offers it in 1080i). I think they use the same encodes for QAM vs. IPTV. YouTube TV is a step up and DirecTV Stream is a BIG step up in terms of HD PQ. But then no cable channel service can match the picture quality offered by direct-to-consumer on-demand services like Apple TV+, Netflix, Prime Video, HBO Max, Disney+, Hulu, Paramount+ and Peacock, where a lot of their new originals stream in 4K Dolby Vision and even the HD stuff looks significantly better than the same show/movie on any live cable channel, regardless of provider.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> Yeah. Similar situation, I think, at Comcast, where they provide all HD channels in overly-compressed 720p (regardless of whether the network offers it in 1080i). I think they use the same encodes for QAM vs. IPTV. YouTube TV is a step up and DirecTV Stream is a BIG step up in terms of HD PQ. But then no cable channel service can match the picture quality offered by direct-to-consumer on-demand services like Apple TV+, Netflix, Prime Video, HBO Max, Disney+, Hulu, Paramount+ and Peacock, where a lot of their new originals stream in 4K Dolby Vision and even the HD stuff looks significantly better than the same show/movie on any live cable channel, regardless of provider.


Spectrum on the west coast is pushing out content at the original resolution, but is using terrible first generation MPEG compression from 2001, and no channel goes above about 11 Mb/s at 8 bits, which is horrendous with that codec. They could have gone H.264 (their cable boxes and the TiVos can accommodate that codec) and gotten _*far *_superior images at just 4-5 Mb/s but for some reason they don't. 

The worst part of their service is where they compress the premium channels you pay extra for even harder, and HBO (for example) never exceeds 9 Mb/s which is just plain pathetic. Freeze any part of the red Marvel movie opening, and you could give a master class on what crappy 8 bit image macroblocking looks like. And they feed the same crappy images to their streaming app.

It's too bad that the best quality streaming images come from DirecTV Stream. I despise AT&T, won't give them a penny, so it's gonna have to be the slightly less hateful Google/YTTV that gets my money going forward. If I had off-air here (I do not) I would use that for the locals and not get that kind of 'cable' package at all. I have plenty of commercial free streaming content already.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

dougdingle said:


> Spectrum on the west coast is pushing out content at the original resolution, but is using terrible first generation MPEG compression from 2001, and no channel goes above about 11 Mb/s at 8 bits, which is horrendous with that codec. They could have gone H.264 (their cable boxes and the TiVos can accommodate that codec) and gotten _*far *_superior images at just 4-5 Mb/s but for some reason they don't.
> 
> The worst part of their service is where they compress the premium channels you pay extra for even harder, and HBO (for example) never exceeds 9 Mb/s which is just plain pathetic. Freeze any part of the red Marvel movie opening, and you could give a master class on what crappy 8 bit image macroblocking looks like. And they feed the same crappy images to their streaming app.
> 
> It's too bad that the best quality streaming images come from DirecTV Stream. I despise AT&T, won't give them a penny, so it's gonna have to be the slightly less hateful Google/YTTV that gets my money going forward. If I had off-air here (I do not) I would use that for the locals and not get that kind of 'cable' package at all. I have plenty of commercial free streaming content already.


Wow. I guess that's why some folks call it "Sharter," ha!

As for DirecTV Stream, well, they're at least spun off now into a separate LLC, although still 70% owned by AT&T, with the other 30% now owned by investment group TPG. (I expect we'll hear AT&T, TPG and DISH announce a merger between the DirecTV and DISH companies sometime after the upcoming mid-term elections with a goal of having the deal consummated by late 2023. We'll see.)

What kind of content from your local channels do you really want that you can't get via one streaming app or another? ABC and Fox shows are on Hulu next-day. NBC shows are on Peacock Premium next-day, while their live sports and SNL stream live. CBS shows are next-day on Paramount+, with sports (including NFL) streaming live. You can even live stream the full local CBS station if you're on their ad-free plan. PBS shows stream same-time in the free PBS app and most local PBS stations live stream in it too. CW shows are next-day (with ads) in the free CW app. Main thing you'd be missing would be the live sports that Fox airs, including Sunday NFL games.

In many areas, the local stations put live and/or recent on-demand replays of their local newscasts in one or more free apps such as NewsOn, Vu It, Stirr or their own branded app. Three of my four local stations here in Nashville do that.

IMO, unless you really need cable sports, cable news/opinion channels, or Fox Sunday NFL games, you can probably make a few small adjustments to your viewing habits and be quite happy without paying for any kind of cable TV service.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> What kind of content from your local channels do you really want that you can't get via one streaming app or another? ABC and Fox shows are on Hulu next-day. NBC shows are on Peacock Premium next-day, while their live sports and SNL stream live. CBS shows are next-day on Paramount+, with sports (including NFL) streaming live. You can even live stream the full local CBS station if you're on their ad-free plan. PBS shows stream same-time in the free PBS app and most local PBS stations live stream in it too. CW shows are next-day (with ads) in the free CW app. Main thing you'd be missing would be the live sports that Fox airs, including Sunday NFL games.


This is the part that annoys me. In order to get content that has local news and sports and network programming and is available to many with an antenna, I would have to subscribe to several different streaming services.

I'm going to go one of two ways...I'll either try out YTTV and stick with it if I like it, or else I'll just wean myself from 'network TV' altogether. I was once addicted to NFL games, watched all five games that are broadcast each week no matter how awful the teams playing, but have slowly reduced that to at most two games, and sometimes none. So for me, walking away is doable. I've been with Spectrum and TiVo for decades, but it's mostly been inertia and keeping my wife happy with a system with which she is familiar. With Internet, my current cable bill is about $250/month, and that's an insane amount of money for HD (or worse) content with the pathetic quality I described. 

In a way, I'm glad Spectrum is forcing the issue with their sun-setting of cable card support. Makes it somewhat easier for me to transition when there is no choice. And I will be so glad to get rid of the constant nightmare that is the Tuning Adapter.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

dougdingle said:


> This is the part that annoys me. In order to get content that has local news and sports and network programming and is available to many with an antenna, I would have to subscribe to several different streaming services.
> 
> I'm going to go one of two ways...I'll either try out YTTV and stick with it if I like it, or else I'll just wean myself from 'network TV' altogether. I was once addicted to NFL games, watched all five games that are broadcast each week no matter how awful the teams playing, but have slowly reduced that to at most two games, and sometimes none. So for me, walking away is doable. I've been with Spectrum and TiVo for decades, but it's mostly been inertia and keeping my wife happy with a system with which she is familiar. With Internet, my current cable bill is about $250/month, and that's an insane amount of money for HD (or worse) content with the pathetic quality I described.
> 
> In a way, I'm glad Spectrum is forcing the issue with their sun-setting of cable card support. Makes it somewhat easier for me to transition when there is no choice. And I will be so glad to get rid of the constant nightmare that is the Tuning Adapter.


Well, as I say, you can pay $10/mo for Paramount+ that includes your live local CBS station, their live Sunday NFL games and all the other live sports CBS has, plus a big ad-free on-demand library with some of it (including current CBS series) in 4K Dolby Vision. And they're about to offer the option to get Showtime (live and on-demand, with select 4K content) inside the Paramount+ app for probably an extra $5 or so on top of the $10 base price, i.e. $15/mo, which is only $3-5 more per month than you'd pay for just Showtime as an add-on to cable TV.

Consider the following:

Paramount+ ad-free: $10 (or $15 with Showtime)
Peacock Premium ad-free: $10 (or $5 if you're getting Peacock Premium with ads for free for 12 months with Spectrum TV; you should take that offer now, while you're paying for Spectrum TV because based on my experience you'll probably get the full 12 months even after you cancel Spectrum TV)
HBO Max ad-free: $15 (and will in a few months include the Discovery+ library, perhaps pushing the price up to $16/mo)
Hulu ad-free: $13
PBS app: free
Tubi app: free
Pluto TV app: free
FreeVee app: free
YouTube app: free
total: $43 to $53/mo, depending on options above

That's a ton of quality ad-free content, plus live CBS and NBC sports and live local CBS news, plus a variety of free older "rerun" movies and show with ads, all for significantly less than YouTube TV's $65/mo cost. Pretty much any primetime series airing on any of the 5 biggest broadcast nets you could watch next-day (or same-day for PBS). You can get live and on-demand national news from CBS, NBC and ABC either in their own free apps or other apps like Pluto TV, YouTube, etc. And most MSNBC shows (e.g. Morning Joe, Deadline White House, All In) are now available next-day in Peacock.

If standalone internet costs you, say, $75/mo, then you could see your total monthly cost of internet plus TV cut in half from $250 to around $125.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> Well, as I say, you can pay $10/mo for Paramount+ that includes your live local CBS station, their live Sunday NFL games and all the other live sports CBS has, plus a big ad-free on-demand library with some of it (including current CBS series) in 4K Dolby Vision. And they're about to offer the option to get Showtime (live and on-demand, with select 4K content) inside the Paramount+ app for probably an extra $5 or so on top of the $10 base price, i.e. $15/mo, which is only $3-5 more per month than you'd pay for just Showtime as an add-on to cable TV.
> 
> Consider the following:
> 
> ...


Your research is compelling.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

dougdingle said:


> Your research is compelling.


And don't you already use an Apple TV 4K? Their brilliant Up Next universal queue in the Apple TV app keeps track of all the shows (and even live sports) you watch across all your underlying apps (except for Netflix, who won't participate because they think they don't need to but they seem to be rethinking a lot of things these days, so who knows...)

So Apple's Up Next watchlist essentially replaces your old TiVo recordings list. And the curated cross-app content picks elsewhere in the Apple TV app replace your old channel grid guide and TiVo recommendations. And Apple is making their Friday night MLB doubleheader free in the Apple TV app at least through August, regardless of whether you subscribe to Apple TV+ for $5/mo (which you should, because Severance is one of the best series I've seen anywhere in the past few years).


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## random_pawn00 (Oct 2, 2019)

slowbiscuit said:


> We got screwed when the FCC didn't have the balls to require an IPTV access standard. You'd think this is what gov't is supposed to do (i.e. standards) but you'd be wrong, although somehow it was perfectly ok to do ATSC 3.0.


All about corporatism. The people who are supposed to protect you from monopolies do the exact opposite.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> And don't you already use an Apple TV 4K? Their brilliant Up Next universal queue in the Apple TV app keeps track of all the shows (and even live sports) you watch across all your underlying apps (except for Netflix, who won't participate because they think they don't need to but they seem to be rethinking a lot of things these days, so who knows...)
> 
> So Apple's Up Next watchlist essentially replaces your old TiVo recordings list. And the curated cross-app content picks elsewhere in the Apple TV app replace your old channel grid guide and TiVo recommendations. And Apple is making their Friday night MLB doubleheader free in the Apple TV app at least through August, regardless of whether you subscribe to Apple TV+ for $5/mo (which you should, because Severance is one of the best series I've seen anywhere in the past few years).


I now have four of them - two first gen and two second gen. I also subscribe to AppleTV+.

Actually, maybe you can help me here. I have a very difficult time with AppleTV+ when I'm watching a series and trying to get it to show me the next episode. So for example, I'll watch Ted Lasso season 2 episode 5, and next time I launch it, it launches into Season 1 Episode 1. It's maddening and I have not delved into it to try to figure out why. Almost every other service I use maintains a "Continue Watching..." list but I can't seem to make it work on AppleTV+. It has become sufficiently annoying that I've taken to just watching movies on AppleTV+. I'm sure I'm missing something here, but can't figure out what.

Are you aware of the "What did he say?" function on the ATV4K and its remote? It's magical.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

dougdingle said:


> I now have four of them - two first gen and two second gen. I also subscribe to AppleTV+.
> 
> Actually, maybe you can help me here. I have a very difficult time with AppleTV+ when I'm watching a series and trying to get it to show me the next episode. So for example, I'll watch Ted Lasso season 2 episode 5, and next time I launch it, it launches into Season 1 Episode 1. It's maddening and I have not delved into it to try to figure out why. Almost every other service I use maintains a "Continue Watching..." list but I can't seem to make it work on AppleTV+. It has become sufficiently annoying that I've taken to just watching movies on AppleTV+. I'm sure I'm missing something here, but can't figure out what.


I honestly don't even know how this is possible. If you scroll all the way down to the main tab in the Apple TV app and look at your watch history, do any Apple TV+ series or movies show up there? Somehow, that app doesn't seem to be tracking your Apple TV+ viewing. And while that feature is _optional_ for third-party services (whose apps you must opt to associate with the Apple TV app and its tracking functionality) it is not at all optional for the native Apple TV+ service or the Apple TV Channels services, as far as I can tell.

Long story short: something be wrong. My guess is that if you wiped the box and reinstalled everything, that would fix the issue. And while the box will remember your apps and auto-redownload them, you'll still have to sign back into them all, which is a bit of a PITA. You could also try contacting Apple support but my guess is that they'll just have you do the ol' wipe and re-set-up trick.



dougdingle said:


> Are you aware of the "What did he say?" function on the ATV4K and its remote? It's magical.


OMG, I use it ALL. THE. TIME. Because apparently I either have a mild hearing impairment or Hollywood sound engineers are crap at their job. (Or a little of both.) Only other device that comes close in this regard is Roku, which has a jump back button which you can set to temporarily turn on CC during the repeat playback.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> I honestly don't even know how this is possible. If you scroll all the way down to the main tab in the Apple TV app and look at your watch history, do any Apple TV+ series or movies show up there? Somehow, that app doesn't seem to be tracking your Apple TV+ viewing. And while that feature is _optional_ for third-party services (whose apps you must opt to associate with the Apple TV app and its tracking functionality) it is not at all optional for the native Apple TV+ service or the Apple TV Channels services, as far as I can tell.
> 
> Long story short: something be wrong. My guess is that if you wiped the box and reinstalled everything, that would fix the issue. And while the box will remember your apps and auto-redownload them, you'll still have to sign back into them all, which is a bit of a PITA. You could also try contacting Apple support but my guess is that they'll just have you do the ol' wipe and re-set-up trick.


OK, well, you've given me an incentive to delve into it deeper. I despise the idea of doing a factory reset but sometimes, ya just gotta do it. I'm going to look at the other devices (something I should have done long ago when first finding the issue) to see if they all do it, or if it's isolated to the main one I use 90% of the time. Thanks.

On the other thing, if you're going deaf, it's both of us. The dialog mix seems to just get worse and worse much more quickly than my hearing would degrade. I know a retired studio sound mixer who complains about this as well, so I think it's 80% the mix, 20% our hearing.😁


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

NashGuy said:


> What kind of content from your local channels do you really want that you can't get via one streaming app or another? ABC and Fox shows are on Hulu next-day. NBC shows are on Peacock Premium next-day, while their live sports and SNL stream live. CBS shows are next-day on Paramount+, with sports (including NFL) streaming live. You can even live stream the full local CBS station if you're on their ad-free plan. PBS shows stream same-time in the free PBS app and most local PBS stations live stream in it too. CW shows are next-day (with ads) in the free CW app. Main thing you'd be missing would be the live sports that Fox airs, including Sunday NFL games.


The big problem with sports streaming, if you go with individual streamers, is that they don't keep the streams for later viewing if you can't/won't watch live (because of commercials etc.). This is the main reason why some sports fans will stick with Tivo or something like YTTV that has a DVR feature, because we don't watch most sports live.

It's a big issue with a lot of streamers, unfortunately. I won't be watching the Amazon Thursday night NFL games this fall because of this, even though we have Prime.


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## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

My recollection is that I can start from the beginning the Peacock (premium ... free w/ Comcast) Sunday morning baseball during the game and skip commercial breaks. Useful, since the games usually start at 8:30 or 9am here in CA. No idea if that will work for the Thursday NFL games on Prime Video.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

humbb said:


> My recollection is that I can start from the beginning the Peacock (premium ... free w/ Comcast) Sunday morning baseball during the game and skip commercial breaks. Useful, since the games usually start at 8:30 or 9am here in CA. No idea if that will work for the Thursday NFL games on Prime Video.


Yeah, I know you can pause, rewind and FF live sports in Peacock. And I think they make at least some events available for on-demand viewing later? I also know that if you have the latest tvOS update on Apple TV, you can do the same with Apple's live MLB games. And I _think_ they're also making those games available for later on-demand viewing. IDK, maybe the NFL has some sort of specific policy against later on-demand streams, though?


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

slowbiscuit said:


> The big problem with sports streaming, if you go with individual streamers, is that they don't keep the streams for later viewing if you can't/won't watch live (because of commercials etc.). This is the main reason why some sports fans will stick with Tivo or something like YTTV that has a DVR feature, because we don't watch most sports live.
> 
> It's a big issue with a lot of streamers, unfortunately. I won't be watching the Amazon Thursday night NFL games this fall because of this, even though we have Prime.


Good point. But are you saying that if watching Thursday Night Football live is your only choice, then you won't even bother to turn it on at all?


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> maybe the NFL has some sort of specific policy against later on-demand streams, though?


Would not be surprised. The NFL Network reruns the games over and over and over and over. There's advertising revenue in them there hills.

And the rerun games more often than not feature the wrong teams in the TiVo guide. Or you get some vapid sports talk show instead of the listed game. The world class incompetence of the NFL Network should not be taken for granted. It's the classic example of a very rich corporation hiring low wage amateurs and doing the most stupid things imaginable.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

NashGuy said:


> Good point. But are you saying that if watching Thursday Night Football live is your only choice, then you won't even bother to turn it on at all?


If I'm forced to watch the AMZ games live I won't watch, because I'm not going to sit through the commercials. If they let me chase watch and skip then I might watch some of them. I'm hoping they will be available to watch after they finish, but I doubt it.

I wanted to watch the end of the first couple of British Open rounds that aired on Peacock this week, because I was chase-watching the USA network broadcast that ended at 3pm or so and then continued on Peacock. Nope, not an option - if you didn't catch it live it wasn't available. This is a real problem for sports streaming, you never know what you can and can't watch after the event. Not a real issue if you sub to YTTV or DTVS and you can DVR it, but if it's streaming-only you're hosed.

Another example is the IndyCar race in Toronto today, only available on Peacock (a first for them), but NBC is only going to show 5 minutes of commercials so I can deal with that. I doubt it will be available after it airs though.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

slowbiscuit said:


> Another example is the IndyCar race in Toronto today, only available on Peacock (a first for them), but NBC is only going to show 5 minutes of commercials so I can deal with that. I doubt it will be available after it airs though.


When I checked Peacock a couple days ago (after my post above) I saw replays available of a number of recent sports, including both MLB games and various races, including a recent NASCAR race. Didn't happen to check golf though. I imagine it varies by league and depends on the rights Peacock has negotiated. At any rate, as more and more of those sports' fans pay to watch via DTC services, they'll be forced to give them what they want and allow on-demand replays afterward, at least for a limited period of time. 

There are lots of ways that the transition from the linear channel paradigm to the DTC streaming paradigm is only half-way finished, and this is just one example.


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## ManeJon (Apr 14, 2018)

I had a strange problem starting this past weekend. I can get "main" channels of some (HBO) but not sub (HBO2, etc) same with ESPN, etc. Have rebooted etc. Called Spectrum expecting to get no help since I'm a TIVO user. Agent, walked me through I bunch of things and said sounds as if it is either a cablecard or tuning adapter issue. OK now I figured I was really dead. Next thing he scheduled a service call for tomorrow AM to work on the issue with those items? So here, in Maine, they are still supporting cable card, TA and are willing to help me with it. 
Issue is really weird to men.


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## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

NashGuy said:


> When I checked Peacock a couple days ago (after my post above) I saw replays available of a number of recent sports, including both MLB games and various races, including a recent NASCAR race. Didn't happen to check golf though. I imagine it varies by league and depends on the rights Peacock has negotiated. At any rate, as more and more of those sports' fans pay to watch via DTC services, they'll be forced to give them what they want and allow on-demand replays afterward, at least for a limited period of time.
> 
> There are lots of ways that the transition from the linear channel paradigm to the DTC streaming paradigm is only half-way finished, and this is just one example.


I just remembered that the NFL has their own VOD game service called Game Pass (it normally costs ~$100/yr, but was given out free during the first pandemic year until the 2020-21 season start). The games supposedly become available for replay immediately following the end of the live game. About 10-12 seasons were archived, and the UI (at least on Roku) was horrendous. So I would imagine, unless Amazon has a special deal, the Thursday games will not be available for post-game viewing on Prime Video.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

ManeJon said:


> I had a strange problem starting this past weekend. I can get "main" channels of some (HBO) but not sub (HBO2, etc) same with ESPN, etc. Have rebooted etc. Called Spectrum expecting to get no help since I'm a TIVO user. Agent, walked me through I bunch of things and said sounds as if it is either a cablecard or tuning adapter issue. OK now I figured I was really dead. Next thing he scheduled a service call for tomorrow AM to work on the issue with those items? So here, in Maine, they are still supporting cable card, TA and are willing to help me with it.
> Issue is really weird to men.


When that happens, it's almost always because the cableco has changed the routing table for Switched Digital Video channels, and the TA is not aware of the changes. They used to send a reboot signal to TAs when they changed the table, but that stopped about three years go.

Happens here 2 or 3 times a year. The fix has always been to unplug the power to the TA for 30 seconds, the reapply power. When the TA connects back to 'mom' (the yellow light stops flashing and becomes solid - anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour) it will have the new table and all the channels you're paying for will reappear. 

If after an hour you can't get a solid yellow light, unplug the TA power and try again.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

dougdingle said:


> When that happens, it's almost always because the cableco has changed the routing table for Switched Digital Video channels, and the TA is not aware of the changes. They used to send a reboot signal to TAs when they changed the table, but that stopped about three years go.
> 
> Happens here 2 or 3 times a year. The fix has always been to unplug the power to the TA for 30 seconds, the reapply power. When the TA connects back to 'mom' (the yellow light stops flashing and becomes solid - anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour) it will have the new table and all the channels you're paying for will reappear.
> 
> If after an hour you can't get a solid yellow light, unplug the TA power and try again.


Good advice. With yellow light I think you are referring to a Motorola TA, whereas the Cisco TA’s have green lights. I sometimes had to restart my TiVo after power-cycling the TA and things would not be right until DVR Diagnostics said “Channel List Received: Yes”. (I’m happy to say its been 2.5 yrs since I took my TA out in a field and shot it. )


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

dlfl said:


> Good advice. With yellow light I think you are referring to a Motorola TA, whereas the Cisco TA’s have green lights. I sometimes had to restart my TiVo after power-cycling the TA and things would not be right until DVR Diagnostics said “Channel List Received: Yes”. (I’m happy to say its been 2.5 yrs since I took my TA out in a field and shot it. )


Yeah, the Motorola TA is used in my area. I have never had to restart the TiVo after the TA came to its senses, nor have I ever seen that Channel List Received prompt. Once mine reconnects to 'mom', things just work again.

I have mixed feelings about cable cards (and thus TiVos) going away, but the TA has been a necessary evil from the start of its deployment and I won't miss those at all.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

dougdingle said:


> Yeah, the Motorola TA is used in my area. I have never had to restart the TiVo after the TA came to its senses, nor have I ever seen that Channel List Received prompt. Once mine reconnects to 'mom', things just work again.
> 
> I have mixed feelings about cable cards (and thus TiVos) going away, but the TA has been a necessary evil from the start of its deployment and I won't miss those at all.


Just to clarify: The “Channel List Received: Yes” is not a prompt. It’s just one item in DVR Diagnostics (i.e., you have to find it). I can’t remember exactly where it was. This was on a Roamio base (4 tuner) model.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

After seven emails from Spectrum (June 7, June 14, June 22, July 7, July 11, July 14, July 21) and three postal mailings from Spectrum (June 20, July 11, July 14), it looks like that the CableCard fiasco for my area is going to happen some time next month. 

I called over there today after getting the third mailing showing up yesterday and seventh email today. In the conversation I had with this person, they tossed out that I should be "ready" for this change to my CableCards no longer working by August 1st, as it's supposed to happen in my area in August. Last time I checked, that's an entire month and August 1st is 10 days from today's date. 

To me, that seems more than a little insane for me to be "ready" that my CableCards might stop working in 10 days' time To say my response was a little irritated might be an understatement. Said rep kept saying repeatedly that the reason they've sent all these emails and all these postal mailings is to make sure I was "ready" for the change. My counterpoint to that flippant point she was making is that I've called them repeatedly to ask when this might happen, this being the sixth call I've made on this issue. This was the only time to date since I started calling on this back in early part of June, was to ask them when this might happen. So, now, we made it to the last 10 days in July and the change is going to happen sometime in August, Which, again, is 10-40 days from now. 

Though, as this rep kept telling me, I should be "ready" by August 1st "just in case". She didn't have a firm date, didn't know who had a firm date inside of the entire organization of Spectrum, though I would be "contacted" when the date would be set. My assumption is that I'd get something in the mail / email likely a week at most in advance of the change, so then it would be all the worse without having the "advance" notice I have now. 

Yes, I know, a lot of air quotes in this one. I'm in the St. Louis MO area, so I don't know if this is their starting point for the rest of the county, their initial test rollout that they're going to do first and wait a bit to see how the dust settles, no idea. I doubt they're going to put any real scheduling into their plan to make this change, though since it could happen as early as August 1st, I need to make my plans to go have them gone from my usual watching scenario as quickly as possible. 

The main irritation I'm going to have with this is having the free streaming options tied to my Spectrum service / account that I have are now going to be shifted around to see how it goes and what has to get paid out of my own pocket. First order of business was to order AT&T Fiber and start with an Internet changeover, which hopefully will work with no issues on the install for Saturday. 

So, what I can offer as advice, at least from personal experience, is that when the CableCard drop happens in your area, you may not have as much warning about it as would make sense or would be acceptable for people to make major changes to their TV watching.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

shrike4242 said:


> After seven emails from Spectrum (June 7, June 14, June 22, July 7, July 11, July 14, July 21) and three postal mailings from Spectrum (June 20, July 11, July 14), it looks like that the CableCard fiasco for my area is going to happen some time next month.
> 
> I called over there today after getting the third mailing showing up yesterday and seventh email today. In the conversation I had with this person, they tossed out that I should be "ready" for this change to my CableCards no longer working by August 1st, as it's supposed to happen in my area in August. Last time I checked, that's an entire month and August 1st is 10 days from today's date.
> 
> ...


Stop listening to mindless CSR drones who know nothing.

When a date is set it will be clearly communicated.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

cwoody222 said:


> Stop listening to mindless CSR drones who know nothing.
> 
> When a date is set it will be clearly communicated.


Not in my past experience with Charter. Communications for large scale changes out here have never been communicated well or with any sense of direction.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

shrike4242 said:


> Not in my past experience with Charter. Communications for large scale changes out here have never been communicated well or with any sense of direction.


Changes such as “your equipment will cease to function and the service you are paying for will not be able to be received within your home”?

Yes, they’re legally required to notify you of such changes with sufficient notice.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

cwoody222 said:


> Changes such as “your equipment will cease to function and the service you are paying for will not be able to be received within your home”?
> 
> Yes, they’re legally required to notify you of such changes with sufficient notice.


Their claim is that all the emails and letters have been sufficient notice, though of course when the concept of a firm date comes up, that seems to disappear from the conversation as a valid point of contention.

Spectrum TOS page:


https://www.spectrum.com/policies/terms-of-service



General TOS page:


https://www.spectrum.com/policies/residential-general-terms-and-conditions-of-service



Section 1, sub-section c:
_c. Amendments; Notices. To the fullest extent permitted under applicable law, Spectrum may in its sole discretion modify any aspect of the Services or these Terms of Service and will post such changes on www.spectrum.com/policies. *Spectrum will provide written notice of any material changes to the Services or these Terms of Service at least 15 days in advance or any longer period required under applicable law by either: (i) sending via mail or hand delivery to Subscriber’s address of record; (ii) e-mailing to Subscriber’s e-mail of record; or (iii) including a message in your monthly billing statement. Subscriber agrees that any one of the foregoing methods of notice constitute sufficient and effective notice under these Terms of Service.* If you disagree with a change to these Terms of Service, you have the right to cancel the Services; provided, that your continued use of the Services for more than 30 days after we deliver notice of a change will constitute your acceptance of the change._

They've obviously been sending communications well in advance of 15 days' time with all of the emails and postal mailings, so I'm sure from their legal standpoint, they've done their due diligence. I would hope that when this change actually does get a date, they read their TOS and at least provide the 15 days' notice their TOS says they're supposed to provide.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Interesting - so now we have reports that St. Louis and Central Kentucky will lose cards next month. If it does actually happen it's just a matter of time until they all die on Spectrum.









Spectrum cable


Spectrum cable, i’ve been notified by spectrum cable that they will no longer be offering the cable cards and they are doing an upgrade so my current cable card will no longer be working on my TiVo edge has anybody heard about this, I just bought the TiVo edge and now I’m finding out that I may...




www.tivocommunity.com


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

And yet, neither reports can cite anything but verbal conversations with low level techs or CSR agents.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Untrue, there are reports of emails and mailings in this thread. You just choose not to believe them but he could post a scan of one of the mailings.

Doesn't really matter, the proof will be next month.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

slowbiscuit said:


> Untrue, there are reports of emails and mailings in this thread.


Not that they’ve shared when I’ve asked.

I still contend these received the marketing mailing already reported, freaked out and called, and got bad info.

No one has produced evidence of anything besides, “I talked to a guy who said…”


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## SirKnowsALot (Jun 3, 2015)

cwoody222 said:


> Not that they’ve shared when I’ve asked.
> 
> I still contend these received the marketing mailing already reported, freaked out and called, and got bad info.
> 
> No one has produced evidence of anything besides, “I talked to a guy who said…”


Here's the email I got yesterday. I'm in Central KY:









This is one of several I've received, plus USPS mailings as well. Also, phone calls from the Cable Card Support number.
They're definitely pummeling us with "dire" warnings.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

SirKnowsALot said:


> Here's the email I got yesterday. I'm in Central KY:
> View attachment 73663
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing.

That’s the same marketing message that many have reported.

It does not say that CC support is ending.


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## SirKnowsALot (Jun 3, 2015)

cwoody222 said:


> Thanks for sharing.
> 
> That’s the same marketing message that many have reported.
> 
> It does not say that CC support is ending.


I guess it depends on how you interpret "CableCARDs will not be compatible with future service upgrades for some time." 

"future service upgrades" --- how far in the future? what kind of upgrades? what about CURRENT services?
"some time" -- does this imply that support will come back eventually? what amount of time are we talking about?

As an engineer, I know that marketing folks speak in vague, ambiguous terms. That gives them leeway to interpret the words any way they please. 
I'm not holding my breath waiting for a clear, concise statement from them, for sure.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

SirKnowsALot said:


> I guess it depends on how you interpret "CableCARDs will not be compatible with future service upgrades for some time."
> 
> "future service upgrades" --- how far in the future? what kind of upgrades? what about CURRENT services?
> "some time" -- does this imply that support will come back eventually? what amount of time are we talking about?
> ...


But at least one report from KY (Spectrum cable) is also claiming that Spectrum leased cable boxes are to be replaced within the next month.

That would entail what? 10’s of thousands? 100’s of thousands? of boxes?

And not a single peep anywhere on the internet reporting this massive effort and inconvenience to all those customers?

Just some technician told her?

Yea, I don’t buy it. People are being misled by bad info.


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

SirKnowsALot said:


> Here's the email I got yesterday. I'm in Central KY:
> View attachment 73663
> 
> 
> ...


What part of Central Kentucky? North central here. Bullitt Co specifically. I only have internet service, so wouldn't have gotten the notices regardless. Just wondering what area they are talking about with these upgrades.


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## SirKnowsALot (Jun 3, 2015)

cwoody222 said:


> But at least one report from KY (Spectrum cable) is also claiming that Spectrum leased cable boxes are to be replaced within the next month.
> 
> That would entail what? 10’s of thousands? 100’s of thousands? of boxes?
> 
> ...


Well, I for one got notified by mail about equipment swaps, and with no other action on my part I soon received new boxes on my doorstep. 
There was one for every old Insight/TWC box I had. 

Again, I chose to do nothing, and on April 23 the old boxes quit working. Including my Tivo with CC. That lit a fire under me and I immediately embarked on a frustrating journey of countless calls to CC tech support (Buffalo, NY based--they are actually pretty good), truck rolls, cable runs, pretty much everything imaginable. At the end, I still can't receive HD channels of any kind (on my Tivo), but I was tired of devoting so much time to d**king around with Spectrum. The guys who came out didn't know squat about Tivos--and admitted so.

The "new" equipment I received is still standard QAM boxes, so nothing revolutionary there.


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## SirKnowsALot (Jun 3, 2015)

hapster85 said:


> What part of Central Kentucky? North central here. Bullitt Co specifically. I only have internet service, so wouldn't have gotten the notices regardless. Just wondering what area they are talking about with these upgrades.


I'm in Fayette county--specifically Lexington.


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## suzannesstud (Sep 11, 2016)

hapster85 said:


> What part of Central Kentucky? North central here. Bullitt Co specifically. I only have internet service, so wouldn't have gotten the notices regardless. Just wondering what area they are talking about with these upgrades.


For Central Kentucky, that would be areas covered by the Harrodsburg headend such as Mercer County, Anderson County, etc. There are multiple counties covered by that particular headend. There may be others also, but our particular system is the headend coming from Harrodsburg.

The equipment involved is CableCARDs and Spectrum receivers specifically the ones which contain CableCARDs embedded inside of them such as the Arris Motorola DCX3200-M and similar models. Not every Spectrum receiver has an embedded CableCARD. Older ones do, but newer ones do not. The replaced receivers will be the newer type which have no CableCARD device inside of them.

We just had our two receivers replaced in February 2022 when our Motorola DCH3200 boxes (big square gray boxes) were replaced with the current DCX3200-M boxes. We started getting letters around November 2021, just like the ones coming with the CableCARD issue, about it. I ignored every letter and email I got because, just like these, they were all very vague with no specifics, and I didn’t really feel like wanting to deal with it if I didn’t have to, but in February, 2 receivers unexpectedly showed up at our door from UPS. I didn’t ask for them nor did I call or respond to anything that would have prompted any kind of replacement order. Instead of calling, I went in person down to our local office, and I asked them what was going on. The person told me they started sending letters and emails a few months prior that I would need to get our two boxes replaced because those old DCH3200 boxes would no longer be compatible with their system and upgrades coming and would stop working. There was way more of those receiver units out there in customer hands than CableCARDs. The person also mentioned for me to be looking out for something coming around spring/summer that would specifically involve our CableCARD/Tuning Adapter combo.

On this CableCARD issue, I mentioned to my technician friend that I just had our two DCH3200 receivers replaced in February, and he advised me that some customers received units like the DCX3200-M which still used a CableCARD already embedded inside the actual unit. That means those will now have to replaced with the newer units which no longer have this along with our CableCARD/Tuning Adapter combo, and those boxes were actually Spectrum units where there are still far more of those than there are CableCARDs installed at customer premises. He said they were first getting all of the really old receiver units, of which there were several types out there, replaced before they moved on to CableCARDs and Tuning Adapters, but now that they are going ahead with CableCARDs, those customers which received replacement units like the DCX3200-M are going to have to replace them yet again.

I can’t imagine Spectrum going to this much trouble, even going so far as do to free professional installations on these, to replace their own units like that especially when there is no difference in price on the customer’s monthly bill and with having to pay a technician to do it when that technician could have possibly been doing a new customer install instead. I can see it with CableCARDs specifically, but not with their own receiver units since they gain absolutely nothing monetarily out of it along with having to pay a technician if the customer wants the free professional installation instead of self-installing it themselves. So to that, I would say if they are going to go to that much trouble for no monetary gain plus actually eating costs, I’d be watching out because so far, this whole CableCARD thing has textbook followed every other scenario which has come up in the past where it looked like it was just a bunch of hype for them to try to make some extra money but then actually came to pass.


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

cwoody222 said:


> But at least one report from KY (Spectrum cable) is also claiming that Spectrum leased cable boxes are to be replaced within the next month.
> 
> That would entail what? 10’s of thousands? 100’s of thousands? of boxes?


Only the oldest boxes need to get replaced. That is not a zero number, but smallish in most locations (anything designed after ~2005/6 (designed, not shipped) should be able to work without a swap). Of course, there are always a few people who hold on to the STB they got 15 years ago because it still works good enough, so such boxes are in the field, and will need to get swapped.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

SirKnowsALot said:


> Here's the email I got yesterday. I'm in Central KY:
> View attachment 73663
> 
> 
> ...


That's the same info I received via email seven times (June 7, June 14, June 22, July 7, July 11, July 14, July 21) and postal mail three times (June 20, July 11, July 14 paperwork dates). The date for the offer of the discounted Apple TV (which is 32B 2021 4K model) or the receiver keeps shifting as times goes on, though the email received on July 11th had a July 7th expiration date on it, so someone didn't proofread that one once it went out. 

The only date I had put to any of it was from my call on Thursday, where the rep on the phone said in August, though I "should be ready for it on August 1st". None of the correspondence have said anything about a date, though this rep said repeatedly that when the change is supposed to happen, I should be getting a notice via email and postal mail with the specific date. I call complete BS on that, since their TOS says that material service changes need at least 15 days notice before taking effect and their "dire warnings" communications and I'm sure their legal department will claim all the emails and postal mailings being done cover them from that perspective. 

If I do get something with a "your CableCards will stop working on date 08/xx/22", I'll certainly post it in here for review. My guess is it'll show up in email first before postal mail, though I'm still 50//50 on the assumption I'll get any notice at all of the CableCard support disappearing.

Since they've said they don't want their CableCards back, I wonder if the same applies for the tuning adapters?


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## SirKnowsALot (Jun 3, 2015)

suzannesstud said:


> For Central Kentucky, that would be areas covered by the Harrodsburg headend such as Mercer County, Anderson County, etc. There are multiple counties covered by that particular headend. There may be others also, but our particular system is the headend coming from Harrodsburg.
> 
> The equipment involved is CableCARDs and Spectrum receivers specifically the ones which contain CableCARDs embedded inside of them such as the Arris Motorola DCX3200-M and similar models. Not every Spectrum receiver has an embedded CableCARD. Older ones do, but newer ones do not. The replaced receivers will be the newer type which have no CableCARD device inside of them.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this very helpful post! Indeed, they swapped my old boxes for DCX3200's with cable cards.


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## suzannesstud (Sep 11, 2016)

shrike4242 said:


> That's the same info I received via email seven times (June 7, June 14, June 22, July 7, July 11, July 14, July 21) and postal mail three times (June 20, July 11, July 14 paperwork dates). The date for the offer of the discounted Apple TV (which is 32B 2021 4K model) or the receiver keeps shifting as times goes on, though the email received on July 11th had a July 7th expiration date on it, so someone didn't proofread that one once it went out.
> 
> The only date I had put to any of it was from my call on Thursday, where the rep on the phone said in August, though I "should be ready for it on August 1st". None of the correspondence have said anything about a date, though this rep said repeatedly that when the change is supposed to happen, I should be getting a notice via email and postal mail with the specific date. I call complete BS on that, since their TOS says that material service changes need at least 15 days notice before taking effect and their "dire warnings" communications and I'm sure their legal department will claim all the emails and postal mailings being done cover them from that perspective.
> 
> ...


All of the letters and emails I have received have an expiration of Monday 08/11/2022 on the equipment choices. Currently they have been coming for the last several months, and the closer it has gotten to August, the more frequently they have seem to come. Between last week and this week alone I have received 4 separate communications on it plus a phone call on Tuesday from them on it. Since the communications began, I’ve received at least 10 or so letters and emails, but I have lost count now so it may actually be more than that.

Everyone I have talked to from my technician friend to person at our local office to phone representatives in CableCARD support have all said the same thing. It will by August 31st, at the latest, but be prepared as if it might happen on August 1st.

In our case here, that would involve all three of our televisions because our living room has the TiVo with CableCARD/Tuning Adapter combo, and our two bedrooms have Arris Motorola DCX3200-M boxes which are among the ones that still contain the internal embedded CableCARDs. Spectrum popped a surprise replacement of our old Motorola DCH3200 boxes on us in February after sending those same kind of vague letters and emails which started in November 2021. The two boxes just showed up one day at our door from UPS, and I ended up self-installing them then calling to perform the swap then taking the DCH3200’s back to our local office to turn them in, but even though those new DCX3200-M’s were actual Spectrum units, they still were the kind with embedded CableCARDs so they will have to again be replaced with two units of the kind which don’t use embedded CableCARDs.

Nothing has been communicated about Tuning Adapters yet, but since nothing, so far, has said they don’t need to be returned, I’d assume those probably will need to be returned whereas the CableCARDs don’t, and those CableCARDs, I guess, could be kept as a piece of nostalgic history in technology.

If there is any good news here, it is that, if my televisions do go dark, I can still use the Spectrum TV app on my Roku 3 or cast it from my iPhone to my TV and still have all my channels, even the local channels, but I just won’t be able to record anything until the three new boxes are installled.


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## suzannesstud (Sep 11, 2016)

SirKnowsALot said:


> Thanks for this very helpful post! Indeed, they swapped my old boxes for DCX3200's with cable cards.


You are very welcome! I’m not sure what model of DVR unit they will replace our DCX3200’s and CableCARDs with, but I hope it will be one with at least 4 tuners. I believe there may be a model with 6 tuners, but I am not for sure on that. 4 tuners would work, but 6 would match my Edge.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

suzannesstud said:


> All of the letters and emails I have received have an expiration of Monday 08/11/2022 on the equipment choices. Currently they have been coming for the last several months, and the closer it has gotten to August, the more frequently they have seem to come. Between last week and this week alone I have received 4 separate communications on it plus a phone call on Tuesday from them on it. Since the communications began, I’ve received at least 10 or so letters and emails, but I have lost count now so it may actually be more than that.
> 
> Everyone I have talked to from my technician friend to person at our local office to phone representatives in CableCARD support have all said the same thing. It will by August 31st, at the latest, but be prepared as if it might happen on August 1st.
> 
> ...


My latest email shows 08/21/22 for the date of the office for the discounted Apple TV or the free receiver, the latest postal mailed reminder shows 08/15/22 as the end of the discount window. 

When I called their retention department to check the date for my bill cut, I asked about TAs being returned since they don't mention them at all in their correspondence and the rep said that they don't need to be returned.


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## suzannesstud (Sep 11, 2016)

shrike4242 said:


> My latest email shows 08/21/22 for the date of the office for the discounted Apple TV or the free receiver, the latest postal mailed reminder shows 08/15/22 as the end of the discount window.
> 
> When I called their retention department to check the date for my bill cut, I asked about TAs being returned since they don't mention them at all in their correspondence and the rep said that they don't need to be returned.


That’s cool. In that case I will keep both the CableCARD and TA as some pieces of nostalgic technology history.

Thank you for the information!


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

SirKnowsALot said:


> Thanks for this very helpful post! Indeed, they swapped my old boxes for DCX3200's with cable cards.


All recent STBs (DCX units would be considered recent in Motorola franchises) can continue to use linear QAM (even with a CableCARD doing the decryption) since they have (have always had) the capability to implement alternative two-way communications (unlike the the OOB signalling that the CableCARDs and TA's use in such locations).

I presume you previously had a DCT (or possibly DCH) STB. I recall that DCH units have the capabilities required (DCT's did not), but the DCH units are also frequency limited, so a DCX unit is probably more of a like-for-like replacement if worldboxes are not (yet) available/viable in your location (or in short supply).


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## SirKnowsALot (Jun 3, 2015)

CommunityMember said:


> All recent STBs (DCX units would be considered recent in Motorola franchises) can continue to use linear QAM (even with a CableCARD doing the decryption) since they have (have always had) the capability to implement alternative two-way communications (unlike the the OOB signalling that the CableCARDs and TA's use in such locations).
> 
> I presume you previously had a DCT (or possibly DCH) STB. I recall that DCH units have the capabilities required (DCT's did not), but the DCH units are also frequency limited, so a DCX unit is probably more of a like-for-like replacement if worldboxes are not (yet) available/viable in your location (or in short supply).


You are correct--my old boxes were DCT2000 and a bunch of the Technicolor DTAs. Stuff from last century...


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

SirKnowsALot said:


> Thanks for this very helpful post! Indeed, they swapped my old boxes for DCX3200's with cable cards.


Which would imply that they're not sunsetting CableCARDs and CC embedded boxes in your area.


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## SirKnowsALot (Jun 3, 2015)

dianebrat said:


> Which would imply that they're not sunsetting CableCARDs and CC embedded boxes in your area.


That was sorta my thinking/hope! But this _is_ Spectrum we're talking about.


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## suzannesstud (Sep 11, 2016)

CommunityMember said:


> All recent STBs (DCX units would be considered recent in Motorola franchises) can continue to use linear QAM (even with a CableCARD doing the decryption) since they have (have always had) the capability to implement alternative two-way communications (unlike the the OOB signalling that the CableCARDs and TA's use in such locations).
> 
> I presume you previously had a DCT (or possibly DCH) STB. I recall that DCH units have the capabilities required (DCT's did not), but the DCH units are also frequency limited, so a DCX unit is probably more of a like-for-like replacement if worldboxes are not (yet) available/viable in your location (or in short supply).


My initial boxes were DCH3200’s which got replaced with DCX3200-M’s of which DCH boxes no longer exist on the system here as they have all been decommissioned. Those DCX boxes use a form of Tru2Way or basically CableCARD 2.0 (the supposed answer to the one-way M-Card that answered the S-Card) but without an actual physical CableCARD you insert and remove. This type has the technology made permanently on to the box’s board.

Our area went all digital a while back which did away with any and all QAM, and it caused all televisions with legitimate QAM technology to go dark unless a cable box was added. The DCX boxes our DCH boxes were replaced with were actually supposed to have been boxes which had no CableCARD technology of any kind to do with it, but some customers still ended up receiving DCX boxes anyway. That was acknowledged as a mistake on Spectrum’s part which is why Spectrum is having the replace all of them that got mistakenly shipped out or mistakenly given out at the local office.

Now, any and all technology that has anything to do with the use of CableCARDs in any way is being decommissioned which includes all forms of CableCARDs themselves and actual Spectrum issued receivers, such as the DCX3200-M and other similar models, which have the CableCARD technology permanently baked right on to the box’s board. My technician friend confirmed that the CableCARD 2.0 (form of Tru2Way) in those DCX and similar model boxes are the only reason they still function in some form as there is no other form of non-CableCARD stand-alone technology in those boxes.

Once our area undergoes the system upgrade, in August, which kills all of those CableCARDs and Spectrum issued boxes dependent upon the technology, the entire area will be completely CableCARDless and Tuning Adapterless.

It still remains to be determined if the replacement units will be Worldboxes or something else, but I just hope it will be one of the DVR models with at least 4 or 6 tuners.


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

SirKnowsALot said:


> You are correct--my old boxes were DCT2000 and a bunch of the Technicolor DTAs.


Technically, the DTA's should (mostly) be able to work with the planned high-split changes, but Charter has wanted to remove them for years (and this was likely a good opportunity).


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

suzannesstud said:


> Our area went all digital a while back which did away with any and all QAM, and it caused all televisions with legitimate QAM technology to go dark unless a cable box was added.


It was not removing linear QAM, it was enabling encryption (which, under FCC rules, required an all digital plant), which requires a CableCARD to decode which made TV's unable to decode any programming.


> It still remains to be determined if the replacement units will be Worldboxes or something else, but I just hope it will be one of the DVR models with at least 4 or 6 tuners.


The DCX boxes are capable of continuing to be used even with the changes for HSI (i.e. high-split). Whether Charter may choose to replace them with Worldboxen will be up to them.


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## suzannesstud (Sep 11, 2016)

CommunityMember said:


> It was not removing linear QAM, it was enabling encryption (which, under FCC rules, required an all digital plant), which requires a CableCARD to decode which made TV's unable to decode any programming.
> 
> The DCX boxes are capable of continuing to be used even with the changes for HSI (i.e. high-split). Whether Charter may choose to replace them with Worldboxen will be up to them.


Spectrum indicated other companies will likely still preserve the ability to use the DCX boxes, but they told me that when the upgrade occurs, DCX’s will be dead in the water on Spectrum’s system. They actually apologized for having sent them because those were never supposed to have been sent as replacements for the DCH boxes. I didn’t think, at the time, to ask which ones they should have sent instead of the DCX’s, but I wish I had thought to ask which ones would have been the correct ones to have sent because I could do with just having the TiVo TV with DVR and the other two without since we have never had DVR from Spectrum. Only TiVo, which is on the living room TV, with Spectrum boxes and no DVR on the other two.

From what I could tell by the installation instructions which came with the DCX boxes, everything referenced the old non-DVR boxes as being Spectrum 110 boxes and the old DVR boxes as being Spectrum 210 boxes, where the type of each box (110 vs. 210) sent would have been based on each box being replaced, but they ended up sending DCX3200-M’s instead with installation instructions for 110 and 210 units rather than DCX units. In my case it sounds like I should have received two 110 units unless they would have considered the DCH’s as DVR’s even though I never activated DVR on those DCH’s and would have sent two 210 units instead.

In any event, I’m about to see if this whole thing will end up being the calling of a bluff on their end or if I will end up dark on my end and have to Spectrum TV App stream it for a couple of days to get three new boxes installed. I had contemplated going ahead, but I have decided to test their waters on this. Worst comes to worst, everything goes dark, and I use the app to stream my channels for maybe a couple of days without being able to record anything then pick back up as soon as I can get new boxes working.


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

shrike4242 said:


> My latest email shows 08/21/22 for the date of the office for the discounted Apple TV or the free receiver, the latest postal mailed reminder shows 08/15/22 as the end of the discount window.


Reminds me of the late night commercials for things like the veg-o-matic: "So you don't forget, order by midnight tonight!"

I would not be surprised that one will get more notices and offers, especially when they actually actually start the transition (as the reality is that people neither read their email, bills, or USPS letters, so there will be people surprised with the loss of service only after it happens, and not before).


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

CommunityMember said:


> Reminds me of the late night commercials for things like the veg-o-matic: "So you don't forget, order by midnight tonight!"
> 
> I would not be surprised that one will get more notices and offers, especially when they actually actually start the transition (as the reality is that people neither read their email, bills, or USPS letters, so there will be people surprised with the loss of service only after it happens, and not before).


According to USPS Informed Delivery, I have another letter showing up today from Spectrum. No new emails from them since the 21st.


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## lstone19 (Mar 29, 2003)

I'm new to this whole thing as we're in the process of moving from the Chicago area (Comcast) to Reno, NV (Spectrum). Won't be in the Reno home until late this year. If I'm reading this topic correctly, we're going to be SOL on using our TiVo Roamio when we get to Reno. 

Between now and then (we're already out of the old home and staying in an extended stay hotel until the new home is ready), I'm trying YouTube TV to see how well that works. First night worked well; last night not so well (hotel Internet seemed to be overloaded - a speed test showed download speed substantially below 1 Mbps). If nothing else, the next couple of months gives me a chance to see how well YouTube TV works as assuming I'm correct that our TiVo will not be usable at our new home (other than for what's already on it), I'd prefer to punish Spectrum for their CableCard decision and not give them any TV business (although they may be unavoidable for Internet). Plus I've read their DVR product is not all that great.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

lstone19 said:


> I'm new to this whole thing as we're in the process of moving from the Chicago area (Comcast) to Reno, NV (Spectrum). Won't be in the Reno home until late this year. If I'm reading this topic correctly, we're going to be SOL on using our TiVo Roamio when we get to Reno.
> 
> Between now and then (we're already out of the old home and staying in an extended stay hotel until the new home is ready), I'm trying YouTube TV to see how well that works. First night worked well; last night not so well (hotel Internet seemed to be overloaded - a speed test showed download speed substantially below 1 Mbps). If nothing else, the next couple of months gives me a chance to see how well YouTube TV works as assuming I'm correct that our TiVo will not be usable at our new home (other than for what's already on it), I'd prefer to punish Spectrum for their CableCard decision and not give them any TV business (although they may be unavoidable for Internet). Plus I've read their DVR product is not all that great.


There is no guaranteed date when Spectrum will no longer support CC. And it could very greatly by region.

They also may prevent new signups before they pull support entirely.

So there’s really no way to say what the case will be when you move to Reno.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

5 hours ago I got maybe that 12th exact same form letter e-mail that keeps moving the date out for me to accept their fantastic equipment.... this time to August 28. I've received at least a dozen e-mails from them and a dozen phone calls from them where the phone call goes to message and they rarely leave a message. Anyone who tells you it's imminent is lying to you. The e-mails don't come from anyone technical... they come from a Vice President of Marketing in Connecticut. The phone calls are marketing phone calls. Don't fall for it.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

Same here, fourth postal mailing, dated 07/21/22, arrived yesterday, same deal, with 08/21/22 end date for the promotion.
Eight email arrived earlier today, with an 08/28/22 date for the end of the promotion deal.

Person on the emails is listed as Kathleen Griffin, VP of Marketing. When I check on Spectrum's website for their upper management, she's not listed there:






Leadership | Charter Communications


Meet the executive leadership team at Charter Communications: Chris Winfrey, President and CEO; Tom Rutledge, Executive Chairman; and others.



corporate.charter.com





When I called their corporate office initially when this issue happened, I was able to get to an operator, though when I asked to speak with Kathleen Griffin by name, I ended up being put on hold and then dumped into the main customer service queue. Tried a couple of weeks later, the opt-out option on the auto-attendant wouldn't end up with a live person.


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

shrike4242 said:


> Same here, fourth postal mailing, dated 07/21/22, arrived yesterday, same deal, with 08/21/22 end date for the promotion.
> Eight email arrived earlier today, with an 08/28/22 date for the end of the promotion deal.
> 
> Person on the emails is listed as Kathleen Griffin, VP of Marketing. When I check on Spectrum's website for their upper management, she's not listed there:
> ...


It's not at all surprising she isn't listed on the page in the link you provided. Those are all top management. Everyone on that page with VP in their title is either an "executive VP", a "senior VP", or "senior executive VP". Found a reddit where Kathleen Griffin is mentioned as "VP of Marketing Communications". With titles like that, there's probably a hundred people with VP in their title at her level. Lol


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Yeah, that's the kind of title companies give to new MBAs and/or in lieu of pay.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

hapster85 said:


> It's not at all surprising she isn't listed on the page in the link you provided. Those are all top management. Everyone on that page with VP in their title is either an "executive VP", a "senior VP", or "senior executive VP". Found a reddit where Kathleen Griffin is mentioned as "VP of Marketing Communications". With titles like that, there's probably a hundred people with VP in their title at her level. Lol


Probably thousands, knowing Spectrum.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

Looks like when the date is actually figured out, we should be getting emails with "Call To Action" in them, which is their terminology for when they sunset devices like old cable boxes, old cable modems and the like. 

Since I think that if I call enough times, I might find the one person at Spectrum that has the whole story, though that of course never happens. 

Highlights from today's phone call:

Supposedly there's 10% of the customer base that uses CableCards . My guess is that it's 9.5% cable boxes where they're integrated and the.0.5% are the people with Tivo units, HD HomeRun units and the like.
When the day actually gets picked, the communications will supposedly change to include the "Call To Action" notice about the CableCard situation being sunset. Supposed to be via postal mail and email, like the current crop of deluge.

No one still knows when the date for the change is, which again, after six weeks+ of emails and postal mailings, someone has to have an idea for when this might happen. 

I spoke with someone else who is in the Spectrum footprint, though is right over the river from me in Illinois, who had asked me previously about all this mess with Spectrum and to explain it to them. Which I did and we agreed that the easiest option would be to swap out to go the cable box route. Most of their content is watching via streaming, so going to a cable box would be easiest. They have older Premiere boxes, so they were just going to get the cable boxes from Spectrum to replace their Tivo units, so they called Spectrum about it. When they did, whomever they talked with said they were in a "legacy footprint", the mailings they were getting were sent by mistake and their Tivo units would continue to work. 

Guess my next step is to get their account info and call Spectrum on their behalf to find out if that's actually true or not.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

@shrike4242 , good luck trying to extract order from chaos. Another illustration of why i’m so glad I have no further dealings with Spectrum.


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

series5orpremier said:


> The e-mails don't come from anyone technical... they come from a Vice President of Marketing in Connecticut.


That is _exactly_ who they must come from, i.e. someone who is actually responsible for communications (and for various reasons at Charter, that it the umbrella org responsible for such). No one else is going to be allowed to send you any official communications. It might not be what you want, but there are various legal and regulatory requirements involved that preclude others from making official statements that have not been vetted through the entire process. If you don't understand that, talk to _your_ lawyer (as only your lawyer is responsible to _you_) who can explain the gory details.


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

series5orpremier said:


> Yeah, that's the kind of title companies give to new MBAs and/or in lieu of pay.


Long before most knew about that approach, almost every new bank employee was given the title VP in lieu of pay or any authority/responsibility. It was an open marketing ploy in the financial industry, as the customers thought they were being treated as special when they got to talk to a VP.


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

shrike4242 said:


> Since I think that if I call enough times, I might find the one person at Spectrum that has the whole story, though that of course never happens.


And until the lowest of the low (the CSRs) are told you will never get the whole story. CSRs are the organizational mushrooms (left in the dark and fed crap). They only actually know what the training materials or the screens tell them, and typically not more than a few days in advance of changes (and only then if they need to learn something entirely new to be prepared). Sure, from time to time, you will get someone who heard something from someone from someone, and will be willing to share what they think they know (because being people they want to try to be helpful to get a score of 10 on the survey you get later), but just like a game of telephone, the information eventually shared (whether factual or guesses or absolutely wrong) got mixed into one confusing story. And do far the fat lady has not yet sung (although she does appear to be in the wings).


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

CommunityMember said:


> And until the lowest of the low (the CSRs) are told you will never get the whole story. CSRs are the organizational mushrooms (left in the dark and fed crap). They only actually know what the training materials or the screens tell them, and typically not more than a few days in advance of changes (and only then if they need to learn something entirely new to be prepared). Sure, from time to time, you will get someone who heard something from someone from someone, and will be willing to share what they think they know (because being people they want to try to be helpful to get a score of 10 on the survey you get later), but just like a game of telephone, the information eventually shared (whether factual or guesses or absolutely wrong) got mixed into one confusing story. And do far the fat lady has not yet sung (although she does appear to be in the wings).


I'm aware of how CSRs rank in the scheme of things, though as time goes on, eventually, the information will make it to the mushrooms being left in the dark and fed crap. Each time I've called, I've had more information get exposed, though as the repeated item being that next month seems to be when it may happen, when the emails and mailings change from what they are, we'll know when it happens. 

I'm continuing on my process to divest from Charter, I have fiber in place in place of my Spectrum connection, my home number with Spectrum is going through a port to a new provider, as well as working on TV options with or without my Tivo units in some part. Assuming my number port happens as it should before my bill cut date, I'll drop Internet and phone service on that date, then see what happens with CableCard use by that timeframe.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

lstone19 said:


> I'm new to this whole thing as we're in the process of moving from the Chicago area (Comcast) to Reno, NV (Spectrum). Won't be in the Reno home until late this year. If I'm reading this topic correctly, we're going to be SOL on using our TiVo Roamio when we get to Reno.
> 
> Between now and then (we're already out of the old home and staying in an extended stay hotel until the new home is ready), I'm trying YouTube TV to see how well that works. First night worked well; last night not so well (hotel Internet seemed to be overloaded - a speed test showed download speed substantially below 1 Mbps). If nothing else, the next couple of months gives me a chance to see how well YouTube TV works as assuming I'm correct that our TiVo will not be usable at our new home (other than for what's already on it), I'd prefer to punish Spectrum for their CableCard decision and not give them any TV business (although they may be unavoidable for Internet). Plus I've read their DVR product is not all that great.


I'm in Reno and we started getting the emails and letters here a while back. I have two cable card/ta set ups and they still work fine. The best answer I've gotten was from somebody directly in that department and he told me that my equipment should continue to work fine, but they probably won't be issuing new hardware at some point, so if yours stop working you might be sol.

I hope like hell this doesn't change.


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## danxmanly (Jan 8, 2005)

Wow.. jsut seeing this thread. I'm in Dallas, TX area and haven't seen the Spectrum Dear John letter yet. With my main tivo and 4 minis in my setup, that would be quite a jump in hardware cost if Spectrum does kill the CC for me. Of course, I'd just terminate their service and go with YouTube TV before I gave Spectrum money for that.


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## ManeJon (Apr 14, 2018)

In Maine and seen no letter yet. A couple of weeks ago when having problems the service guy said if needed they would replace the TA 
So I guess not here YET


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## lstone19 (Mar 29, 2003)

sharkster said:


> I'm in Reno and we started getting the emails and letters here a while back. I have two cable card/ta set ups and they still work fine. The best answer I've gotten was from somebody directly in that department and he told me that my equipment should continue to work fine, but they probably won't be issuing new hardware at some point, so if yours stop working you might be sol.
> 
> I hope like hell this doesn't change.


FWIW, I called Spectrum and talked to someone who after initially saying he’s never had a call about Cablecards before claims to have done some checking and that they are still available in Reno. We’ll see what happens when we actually move there later this year.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

lstone19 said:


> FWIW, I called Spectrum and talked to someone who after initially saying he’s never had a call about Cablecards before claims to have done some checking and that they are still available in Reno. We’ll see what happens when we actually move there later this year.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I just wish they'd leave me alone with the emails and snail-mail letters! I probably get at least 3 emails a week and at least one letter in the mail. Same exact spiel. Leave me alone! It's just annoying. Every single one says the exact same, completely non-specific, stuff.


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## austinsho (Oct 21, 2001)

sharkster said:


> I just wish they'd leave me alone with the emails and snail-mail letters! I probably get at least 3 emails a week and at least one letter in the mail. Same exact spiel. Leave me alone! It's just annoying. Every single one says the exact same, completely non-specific, stuff.


If the emails you are receiving, there should be an UNSUBSCRIBE link somewhere on them? I was receiving them as well, did the unsub and they stopped in about a week.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

austinsho said:


> If the emails you are receiving, there should be an UNSUBSCRIBE link somewhere on them? I was receiving them as well, did the unsub and they stopped in about a week.


D'oh! I didn't even think of that. Thanks! Such a simple solution.


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## austinsho (Oct 21, 2001)

sharkster said:


> D'oh! I didn't even think of that. Thanks! Such a simple solution.


I'm not saying it'll work. This *IS *Spectrum, after all!


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

Middle of the month, no "Call To Action" email or postal mailing from Spectrum, just another postal mailing and email like before. Discount deal on the Apple TV and the free cable box / cloud DVR is now out to 09/04/22 for me. Up to 9 emails and 5 postal mailings to date.


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## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

I am in St. Louis. I had a Spectrum technician out today to deal with some internet service issues. To my very pleasant surprise, he was familiar with TiVo and moca and cable cards, so we got into a discussion about what was coming down the pike. He told me that the new high-speed internet service was going to be implemented in Perryville, MO starting in 2 weeks. (For those of you who are unfamiliar, Perryville is in rural southeast MO.) As someone else mentioned, all of the old cable boxes as well as the cable cards will be obsolete. I asked him when he thought it might hit St. Louis, and he said that he doesn't know but what they were told is that Spectrum is bringing in huge contracting companies to work on upgrading the large service areas after Spectrum has done a roll out in the smaller communities. He anticipated it would be end of September for the St. Louis area but couldn't confirm that. 

I have not received an email or letter from Spectrum in a week or so, so it will be interesting to see if I get any more.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

dmrshop said:


> I am in St. Louis. I had a Spectrum technician out today to deal with some internet service issues. To my very pleasant surprise, he was familiar with TiVo and moca and cable cards, so we got into a discussion about what was coming down the pike. He told me that the new high-speed internet service was going to be implemented in Perryville, MO starting in 2 weeks. (For those of you who are unfamiliar, Perryville is in rural southeast MO.) As someone else mentioned, all of the old cable boxes as well as the cable cards will be obsolete. I asked him when he thought it might hit St. Louis, and he said that he doesn't know but what they were told is that Spectrum is bringing in huge contracting companies to work on upgrading the large service areas after Spectrum has done a roll out in the smaller communities. He anticipated it would be end of September for the St. Louis area but couldn't confirm that.
> 
> I have not received an email or letter from Spectrum in a week or so, so it will be interesting to see if I get any more.


From what I've been told, as mentioned earlier, you're supposed to get an email and/or mailing that says "Call To Action" on it, which is supposed to be the advance notice for the change coming up the pipeline. If that happens or not, I'm sure we'll find out soon enough. 

I'd be very curious to see what happens with the change for you, if any, when this two week timeframe comes and goes for the change in Internet service.


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## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

shrike4242 said:


> From what I've been told, as mentioned earlier, you're supposed to get an email and/or mailing that says "Call To Action" on it, which is supposed to be the advance notice for the change coming up the pipeline. If that happens or not, I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.
> 
> I'd be very curious to see what happens with the change for you, if any, when this two week timeframe comes and goes for the change in Internet service.


I wouldn't expect any changes to my service when they upgrade in Perryville. That is on a different system than me. But, I will certainly post something here if I find out anything else. I'm just waiting for Bally's Sports to roll out their streaming service, and then I will probably ditch cable all together. I'm going to enjoy my TiVo until then, however. 😉


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

It's refreshing they finally ended the non-stop onslaught of high-pressure marketing BS. My first year new customer discount rates are being raised to full list price the second week of September so their new strategy to get my cablecard off their system is to flush me out with a $65/month (50%) bill increase. That will definitely work out for them long-term. 

Bally Sports gave a September 26th date for their rollout.








Bally Sports+ streaming service to become widely available Sept. 26


Service to launch for the 2022-23 NBA and NHL seasons




www.ballysports.com


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

series5orpremier said:


> It's refreshing they finally ended the non-stop onslaught of high-pressure marketing BS. My first year new customer discount rates are being raised to full list price the second week of September so their new strategy to get my cablecard off their system is to flush me out with a $65/month (50%) bill increase. That will definitely work out for them long-term.


It's a remarkably clever business model...as you shed customers, just raise the rates on those who remain to keep revenue constant. Wall Street loves constant revenue.

Last subscriber left gets to pay $385,430.15 a month.

It also explains the thinking behind AT&T's unparalleled success at keeping their landline business going.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

dougdingle said:


> It's a remarkably clever business model...as you shed customers, just raise the rates on those who remain to keep revenue constant. Wall Street loves constant revenue.


Yes, but recent quarterly earnings reports from the likes of Disney, Comcast, Paramount, and WBD indicate that total revenue for cable and broadcast networks has peaked and is now in secular decline. Ever-increasing carriage rates more than offset losses in cable TV subscribers for the first decade of subscriber declines, from 2012 to 2022. But obviously, that trend could only go so far until the rate increases became counter-productive by shooing away even more subscribers than the higher rates could make up for. It appears we've reached that moment.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557480647224180736


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

At the end of August, no "Call To Action" emails or postal mailings, nor any more of the previous ones we've all seen in the past couple of weeks. 

Removed Spectrum Internet and in the same call with Retention to remove the $5 Sports Pack I didn't ask for, the retention rep completely screwed my plan in what should have been a single line-item deletion. Needed a follow-up call with retention to fix it once the tech support rep found what happened and it wasn't a CableCard issue like it first appeared with an incorrect channel map. 

Retention rep #2 fixed it to my satisfaction well enough, so time to sit back and wait to see what happens, as the promo they put on the account to get the cost back down to my grandfathered pricing from before is good for a year. All I have left with Charter is TV, no more land line equivalent or Internet.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

Emails and postal mailing starting up again for me, two emails, one on 09/19/22 (which had a date of 07/07/22 for the promo on the free cable box for 24 months or 50% off an Apple TV 4K) and 09/23/22 (with a date of 09/26/22 for the promo), as well as one postal mailing that showed up on 09/22/22 (date of 10/19/22 for the promo). 

Still no "Call To Action" emails or postal mailings, CableCards keep working, so it looks like going into October before they do anything yet to neuter them.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> Yes, but recent quarterly earnings reports from the likes of Disney, Comcast, Paramount, and WBD indicate that total revenue for cable and broadcast networks has peaked and is now in secular decline. Ever-increasing carriage rates more than offset losses in cable TV subscribers for the first decade of subscriber declines, from 2012 to 2022. But obviously, that trend could only go so far until the rate increases became counter-productive by shooing away even more subscribers than the higher rates could make up for. It appears we've reached that moment.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557480647224180736


Zaslav, the new head of the stupid HBO/WB/Discovery merger horror is a guy used to making money by peddling low rent reality garbage to the rubes on Discovery and other outlets.

He has already removed a lot of older content from HBO, and greenlit trashy reality projects for it that are more R rated than Discovery could tolerate. That's the future of HBO with this guy at the helm.

Kinda sad, really. Although I can't wait for "I grew to 600 lbs. eating Sharknado debris and now my sister wants to divorce me."


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## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

shrike4242 said:


> Emails and postal mailing starting up again for me, two emails, one on 09/19/22 (which had a date of 07/07/22 for the promo on the free cable box for 24 months or 50% off an Apple TV 4K) and 09/23/22 (with a date of 09/26/22 for the promo), as well as one postal mailing that showed up on 09/22/22 (date of 10/19/22 for the promo).
> 
> Still no "Call To Action" emails or postal mailings, CableCards keep working, so it looks like going into October before they do anything yet to neuter them.


Same here. I am in St Louis. You?


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

dougdingle said:


> Zaslav, the new head of the stupid HBO/WB/Discovery merger horror is a guy used to making money by peddling low rent reality garbage to the rubes on Discovery and other outlets.
> 
> He has already removed a lot of older content from HBO, and greenlit trashy reality projects for it that are more R rated than Discovery could tolerate. That's the future of HBO with this guy at the helm.
> 
> Kinda sad, really. Although I can't wait for "I grew to 600 lbs. eating Sharknado debris and now my sister wants to divorce me."


LOL. Don't completely disagree with you! But the good news is that Zaslav has contracted Casey Bloys and his team in place heading up HBO for another five years and he's promised to increase the money that flows to that division for more hours of HBO and Max Originals. (Yes, some of the Max Originals are reality dreck but a lot of them are very good scripted shows.) I'm not too worried about HBO. I think Zaslav clearly understands that it's the crown jewel of Warner (along, of course, with the WB film library).

I do think that when HBO Max and discovery+ combine next year, the combined service is going to look somewhat different than HBO Max does now. I think it'll shed a lot of its licensed content and maybe drop the kids section completely. It's going to look like less of a "something for everyone" service trying to compete head-on with Netflix and something focused more on its two core brands, HBO and Discovery (which is probably why it leaked out that a name they're considering for the service is HBO Discovery).

Beyond that, the current chatter is that Zaslav is just positioning WBD for yet another merger come 2024 (the soonest it'll be able to start another round of M&A discussions). And the conventional wisdom -- which I agree with -- is that it'll be Comcast who acquires WBD to merge into their Universal unit and then spin off as a pure media/theme parks business that can globally compete against Disney. At that point, I suspect Zas and most of his crew (other than the HBO team) will be shown the door. It'll be Universal running the show then, just as Discovery folks are running the show now after taking over Warner from AT&T. Poor ol' Warner. They've really been through the wringer...


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> … total revenue for cable and broadcast networks has peaked and is now in secular decline.


I guess the best way to offset those losses would be to ramp up religious programming?


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mdavej said:


> I guess the best way to offset those losses would be to ramp up religious programming?


Definitely.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

dmrshop said:


> Same here. I am in St Louis. You?


Same here, St. Louis.


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

dmrshop said:


> He anticipated it would be end of September for the St. Louis area but couldn't confirm that.


If one ignores the marketing hype (where wide roll-outs of high-split HSI with higher upload speeds will be seen real soon now), most expect only a few (smallish) locations by EoY 2022 (so Charter can say they started) to actually deploy and activate HSI high-split, and it taking (optimistically) 4 years to get mostly complete (when they will announce success, even as a number of people will still not be upgraded; sort of like the 200Mb/s HSI upgrade that Charter announced was "essentially" complete and then took 18+ months after that to get out to some locations). Clearing out the CableCARD and older STB users before they start extensive work in a location allows Charter much greater flexibility in schedules in the plant work itself, even if a lot of work is still to be done to actually activate high-split HSI, though, so that will typically happen quite some time before the HSI improvements.

Of course, at this point, it is likely that Charter is redirecting a lot of techs and equipment to the Florida area, which will certainly delay schedules elsewhere.


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## driver1957 (3 mo ago)

CommunityMember said:


> If one ignores the marketing hype (where wide roll-outs of high-split HSI with higher upload speeds will be seen real soon now), most expect only a few (smallish) locations by EoY 2022 (so Charter can say they started) to actually deploy and activate HSI high-split, and it taking (optimistically) 4 years to get mostly complete (when they will announce success, even as a number of people will still not be upgraded; sort of like the 200Mb/s HSI upgrade that Charter announced was "essentially" complete and then took 18+ months after that to get out to some locations). Clearing out the CableCARD and older STB users before they start extensive work in a location allows Charter much greater flexibility in schedules in the plant work itself, even if a lot of work is still to be done to actually activate high-split HSI, though, so that will typically happen quite some time before the HSI improvements.
> 
> Of course, at this point, it is likely that Charter is redirecting a lot of techs and equipment to the Florida area, which will certainly delay schedules elsewhere.


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## driver1957 (3 mo ago)

CommunityMember said:


> If one ignores the marketing hype (where wide roll-outs of high-split HSI with higher upload speeds will be seen real soon now), most expect only a few (smallish) locations by EoY 2022 (so Charter can say they started) to actually deploy and activate HSI high-split, and it taking (optimistically) 4 years to get mostly complete (when they will announce success, even as a number of people will still not be upgraded; sort of like the 200Mb/s HSI upgrade that Charter announced was "essentially" complete and then took 18+ months after that to get out to some locations). Clearing out the CableCARD and older STB users before they start extensive work in a location allows Charter much greater flexibility in schedules in the plant work itself, even if a lot of work is still to be done to actually activate high-split HSI, though, so that will typically happen quite some time before the HSI improvements.
> 
> Of course, at this point, it is likely that Charter is redirecting a lot of techs and equipment to the Florida area, which will certainly delay schedules elsewhere.


I am also in St Louis and have been receiving the Spectrum/Charter letters and emails about CableCards for the past couple of months. I just received a new letter by postal mail, stating that they will be adding new HD channels to my lineup "on or after Oct 6, 2022" which will be duplicates of existing SD channels.
The letter also states "NOTE: If you are using TiVo device series 1, 2, or 3, you will need to contact TiVo to upgrade to the newest series to avoid any disruption to your service".
So this seems like a new twist. No mention in this particular letter about dropping support for CableCards. I have a TiVo Premiere XL4, which is Series 4, so apparently I won't be affected by this change. But the possibly better news is that the letter seems to imply that perhaps CableCard support is no longer going away, at least for now?


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

driver1957 said:


> The letter also states "NOTE: If you are using TiVo device series 1, 2, or 3, you will need to contact TiVo to upgrade to the newest series to avoid any disruption to your service".
> So this seems like a new twist.


This means the new channels are in H.264, and was the same issue that other providers (Comcast was among the first as I recall) notified their customers of when they made such a change. This typically also means if you have an older STB (DCT/DCH?) you will need to upgrade the box (although maybe they have already pushed that part separately).


> No mention in this particular letter about dropping support for CableCards.


Left hand and right hand. They don't talk often. It is not a new issue for many large operators who seem to communicate some things poorly, but it is embarrassing. I would also guess that these new channels are also being added to a larger regional area, so the letter was likely written for many that are not just your locale (again, lack of hand talking).


> I have a TiVo Premiere XL4, which is Series 4, so apparently I won't be affected by this change. But the possibly better news is that the letter seems to imply that perhaps CableCard support is no longer going away, at least for now?


I would not read too much into a lack of clarity, but no one other than Charter knows the actual schedules for your particular area.

Completely separately, some engineering focused folk who have looked at Charter's plans have raised an eyebrow about Charter not mentioning some of the real world issues that they will experience and will have to deal with, and how it will impact schedules (such as potentially having to go inside every residence in some locations to remove/replace drop amps, and replace splitters and/or add filters, along with all the plant work expected). Comcast did some early field trials of their mid-split deployments and reported the results at various cable tech conferences many years ago now and how those tests results in changes to plans (and pushing out the schedules by what turned out to be years, although some of that ended up due to other changes in the plan that became viable). High-split has all the mid-split issues, plus more, so the engineering focused people expect the roll-out to be more of a slog than Charter has publicly acknowledged, so that could work in favor of those who want to continue to use their TiVo for just a bit longer (although, as always, your location will vary).


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## pettyfog (Jun 10, 2016)

Well, if you guys recall, there's been rumors going around about this for a couple years. In the meantime, I have refused to buy new models and recently replaced a flaky roamio. Swapped hdd and cable card from old unit.
Of COURSE I had trouble getting cable card to register but the Spectrum tech knew what he was doing, did some kinda 'force' and it started working. 
During chat, I asked him and he said the rumors in his world were no different than a year ago and still 
"Sometime in future"


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## igirl (Feb 5, 2011)

Welp - here we are (decades long Tivo users in many cities) on the cusp of moving to a town where Spectrum is the only cable - and only ISP choice!!! All this talk of no longer supporting cablecards is disconcerting - but I see people are still using them. We are at about 50/50 streaming (Apple TV) and using our Roamio Pro (original UI) - 

Just pondering if Tivo's going to be "canceled" by Spectrum soon - maybe it's better to switch now to broadband + YouTubeTV (for instance). Scanning the forums (tldr) opinions seem all over the map but so far there hasn't been a global elimination of Tivo on Spectrum... hmmm


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

igirl said:


> Welp - here we are (decades long Tivo users in many cities) on the cusp of moving to a town where Spectrum is the only cable - and only ISP choice!!! All this talk of no longer supporting cablecards is disconcerting - but I see people are still using them. We are at about 50/50 streaming (Apple TV) and using our Roamio Pro (original UI) -
> 
> Just pondering if Tivo's going to be "canceled" by Spectrum soon - maybe it's better to switch now to broadband + YouTubeTV (for instance). Scanning the forums (tldr) opinions seem all over the map but so far there hasn't been a global elimination of Tivo on Spectrum... hmmm


Spectrum still supports CableCards in each of its markets.


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## igirl (Feb 5, 2011)

cwoody222 said:


> Spectrum still supports CableCards in each of its markets.


Yes, thanks, as I noted - _"people are still using them"_ - but the real question (which no one seems to be able to answer definitively) - is - for how long?
I guess we ask/fight for it in the new place and keep on going as long as possible! It's going to require a truck roll since the seller has DirectTV... another thing they no longer like to do.


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## austinsho (Oct 21, 2001)

Well OK. Here we are. I have been off Spectrum for month or so, and had turned both my cablecards back in. I was considering going to the new TiVo box, having had some issues with my current provider. Yes, you guessed it. Spectrum has informed me that I am no longer considered a cablecard account and cannot acquire a new one. So folks...if you want to stay with Spectrum do *NOT* let your cablecard lapse. This was the first time Spectrum has told me that I cannot have a new one. I don't think this applies to replacements but they certainly don't want any new customers.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

austinsho said:


> Well OK. Here we are. I have been off Spectrum for month or so, and had turned both my cablecards back in. I was considering going to the new TiVo box, having had some issues with my current provider. Yes, you guessed it. Spectrum has informed me that I am no longer considered a cablecard account and cannot acquire a new one. So folks...if you want to stay with Spectrum do *NOT* let your cablecard lapse. This was the first time Spectrum has told me that I cannot have a new one. I don't think this applies to replacements but they certainly don't want any new customers.


It never hurts to file a complaint with the Attorney General, FCC, or some V.P. for Charter. I'm not saying it will do anything, but it can't hurt.


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## igirl (Feb 5, 2011)

Just ordered new service with Spectrum starting 10/18/22 - we have to pay a $50 truck roll fee due to the house being connected to DirectTV - I assume DTV have taken over the in house cable wiring. It could be simple to switch back - but maybe not... I don't want to mess with it. (built in a planned development in 2014, so cable TV feed is likely in the street/panel) Ah, for the old days when the cable guy came out for free to get your business!!!!

The phone call took 40 minutes - this wasn't waiting to speak to someone - just the time it took to enter new service. That's INSANE - all you need is name, address, service type and appointment. geeesh. After a long long time on hold after asking them 3x to make sure the installer brings a tuning adapter and cablecard......... The answer finally was - *YES* - they will bring the tuning adapter and cablecard! 

Granted, given the level of incompetency that takes 40 minutes to do something so basic - I'm skeptical they will do what's been asked for. We shall see. If they deny providing it on the install then it's Plan B - no more cable TV, no more Tivo. :-( Not ready for that day just yet.


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## austinsho (Oct 21, 2001)

pl1 said:


> It never hurts to file a complaint with the Attorney General, FCC, or some V.P. for Charter. I'm not saying it will do anything, but it can't hurt.


Well, my understanding is that the cable companies no longer have to support Cablecard in any shape or fashion, and Spectrum is just taking advantage of that. Given the hassles I had with the technology, I can understand why they wanted to dump it, money aside. And I would expect* no* help whatsoever from what passes for an "attorney general" here in the "Great State of Texas".


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## austinsho (Oct 21, 2001)

igirl said:


> Granted, given the level of incompetency that takes 40 minutes to do something so basic - I'm skeptical they will do what's been asked for. We shall see. If they deny providing it on the install then it's Plan B - no more cable TV, no more Tivo. :-( Not ready for that day just yet.


Not ONCE while I was with Spectrum did they dispatch a tech who had any idea 1) what a Cablecard was or 2) what a TiVo was, despite the repeated assurances from the ordertakers that they would.

And two quick questions...where are you located and was your system originally Time Warner or Charter? Just curious as to how they're disassembling the Cablecard system, such as it was.


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## igirl (Feb 5, 2011)

austinsho said:


> Not ONCE while I was with Spectrum did they dispatch a tech who had any idea 1) what a Cablecard was or 2) what a TiVo was, despite the repeated assurances from the ordertakers that they would.
> 
> And two quick questions...where are you located and was your system originally Time Warner or Charter? Just curious as to how they're disassembling the Cablecard system, such as it was.


We've owned 10 different houses in the last 22 years over a few states (including this move) and have had Spectrum several times. It's usually been a pretty easy install with knowledgeable techs.
We are currently with Xfinity in Northern CA/Bay Area but moving to Central CA. We've actually lived there before in the early 2000s and it was Brighthouse, before Spectrum. They were amazingly good - and no one ever says that about any cable company! Spectrum took over and it went from a "10" to about a "5". Here in NorCal Xfinity wasn't difficult with Tivo, and they don't require the stupid/flakey tuning adapter - which is nice.

I might call Spectrum the day before to remind them to bring the tuning adapter and cablecard.

As far as the FCC etc. - with no more rule to comply to they all can do whatever they want - but they will lose customers in the process and cable tv is exsanguinating customers right now to streaming alternatives. The writing is on the wall for them too.


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## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

austinsho said:


> Well OK. Here we are. I have been off Spectrum for month or so, and had turned both my cablecards back in. I was considering going to the new TiVo box, having had some issues with my current provider. Yes, you guessed it. Spectrum has informed me that I am no longer considered a cablecard account and cannot acquire a new one. So folks...if you want to stay with Spectrum do *NOT* let your cablecard lapse. This was the first time Spectrum has told me that I cannot have a new one. I don't think this applies to replacements but they certainly don't want any new customers.


I have not yet dumped the cablecard, but, according to all of the correspondence from Spectrum, we do not have to turn in the cablecards if we terminate that service. Same goes with the tuning adapter. I was hoping that would be a saving Grace if I chose to terminate and then changed my mind, but I guess they could refuse to initiate service again? I don't know how that works from their end.


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## austinsho (Oct 21, 2001)

That's just it, no one knows. Not even Spectrum. I was told the other day they were no longer autorizing Cablecards and that they would continue to charge the (admittedly small) monthly fee for any outstanding. But I'd bet you could call right now and get a completely different answer. Whatever.


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## igirl (Feb 5, 2011)

Just a followup - I was able to get the Cablecard and tuning adapter without any complaints, though a lot of incompetence. First appointment - (after reminding them) guy shows up and doesn't have the equipment. Says he can't even see that it's requested until after he is dispatched. Can't/Won't go get it and come back - reschedules it for 2 days later. Meanwhile we have zero cell phone data reception 1 bar at best - so no internet. He also refused to just give me internet to help out in the coming 2 day blackout. Said they have to do everything - or nothing. UGH Next guy shows - same thing - no equipment - no clue. After a long time calling in he gets a supervisor on the line and the super drives over with the equipment and they figure it out. Almost. Looks like TV - Internet is good - but of course Tivo has to run guided setup again to fully test it out. It came back hours later that the cablecard wasn't paired properly - so I got them on the phone and managed to talk through it. Finally working! They didn't give any indication that it wasn't a long term setup. Still holding on - though this tested my patience to the point I almost said forget it and just go with Spectrum internet and start YouTubeTV instead!!!


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## austinsho (Oct 21, 2001)

I am completely unsurprised by any of that. That is exactly what happened with my first TiVo install six years back. Cablecards always where the b**** stepchild for TWC/Spectrum. Now, they don't even acknowledge that they are, or ever were, an option.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

igirl said:


> Just a followup - I was able to get the Cablecard and tuning adapter without any complaints, though a lot of incompetence. First appointment - (after reminding them) guy shows up and doesn't have the equipment. Says he can't even see that it's requested until after he is dispatched. Can't/Won't go get it and come back - reschedules it for 2 days later. Meanwhile we have zero cell phone data reception 1 bar at best - so no internet. He also refused to just give me internet to help out in the coming 2 day blackout. Said they have to do everything - or nothing. UGH Next guy shows - same thing - no equipment - no clue. After a long time calling in he gets a supervisor on the line and the super drives over with the equipment and they figure it out. Almost. Looks like TV - Internet is good - but of course Tivo has to run guided setup again to fully test it out. It came back hours later that the cablecard wasn't paired properly - so I got them on the phone and managed to talk through it. Finally working! They didn't give any indication that it wasn't a long term setup. Still holding on - though this tested my patience to the point I almost said forget it and just go with Spectrum internet and start YouTubeTV instead!!!


Congrats!

Not that this will make you feel any better, but I don't remember ever having a successful cableco install with my TiVos (from either Comcast Xfinity or Verizon Fios). They never seem to be able to pair it properly upon installation and I have to spend hours on the phone with them after the fact. That is why I dread losing my cableCARD pairing and why I have a backup of the hard drive with the settings I need, ready to plug in the moment I have a problem. 

Anyway, I'm just pointing out that the part that was the most challenging for you is not limited to Charter Spectrum. I'm not sure about Spectrum, but both Xfinity and Fios have an on-line tool to activate cableCARDs and that has never worked for me either. I wish it was an easier process, but then, the cablecos would have to WANT there to be!


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

austinsho said:


> I am completely unsurprised by any of that. That is exactly what happened with my first TiVo install six years back. Cablecards always where the b**** stepchild for TWC/Spectrum. Now, they don't even acknowledge that they are, or ever were, an option.


It was the same as what happened to me with Spectrum in 2010.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

End of October come and gone, CableCards still working as before. No emails or postal mailings in a few weeks, so maybe they're on pause until they figure out when they're actually going to make this change.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

shrike4242 said:


> End of October come and gone, CableCards still working as before. No emails or postal mailings in a few weeks, so maybe they're on pause until they figure out when they're actually going to make this change.


Or maybe people should stop listening to phone agents and tech installers who don’t know the full story, and then reporting what they’re told as fact?


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## TrappedLikeARat (2 mo ago)

taronga said:


> Central Kentucky here
> 
> 
> That's nifty. One of the reasons why I've kept going back to Roku is they, like Tivo, have an instant replay button right on the remote. You can also set it to only turn on captions during instant replay.
> ...


Some other voice and touch commands from an Apple TV remote:
Tap the touch pad once (and don't click it) - you'll see the timeline with elapsed and time remaining. 
Tap it a second time and it shows current clock time and prospective end time on the timeline

If using voice "Hey Siri" is not utilized. Just depress the Siri button to tell it what to do.
Navigation on streamed shows/movies not live: Say: "Go back x seconds, minutes, etc." or "go forward x seconds, minutes, etc." I think I've even told it to go ahead fractions of a second... This is also where "What did she say" works. That's my favorite feature I think.
Other Nav commands - scrubbing is awesome. "Go to X ("end," "beginning," "47th minute mark, etc."
"Subtitles on/off" (will put them on default language" or "Subtitles on, English" - (or Italian, German, Spanish... whatever languages the material supports)
Verbosity - If you don't have subtitles already on, you can just say "Subtitles" and it will assume you want them on. The commands don't have to be verbose. You can say "What time is it?" or just "Time" and you'll get the same response on screen. Also, "Put on CNBC" or just "CNBC" or "War of the Worlds Season 3 Episode 6"
"Movie Name" (will bring up list of apps that have the movie - including ones not installed, and prices for buying or renting if applicable
"Show name" - same as movie. For instance, "Dick Van ****" or "Yellowstone"
"Set temperature to X" or "raise/lower temperature x degree(s)" works with HomeKit compatible thermostats like ecobee
"Dim the lights in the family room" or many other commands for HomeKit compatible devices like Lutron, Philips Hue, etc.


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## TrappedLikeARat (2 mo ago)

pl1 said:


> Congrats!
> 
> Not that this will make you feel any better, but I don't remember ever having a successful cableco install with my TiVos (from either Comcast Xfinity or Verizon Fios). They never seem to be able to pair it properly upon installation and I have to spend hours on the phone with them after the fact. That is why I dread losing my cableCARD pairing and why I have a backup of the hard drive with the settings I need, ready to plug in the moment I have a problem.
> 
> Anyway, I'm just pointing out that the part that was the most challenging for you is not limited to Charter Spectrum. I'm not sure about Spectrum, but both Xfinity and Fios have an on-line tool to activate cableCARDs and that has never worked for me either. I wish it was an easier process, but then, the cablecos would have to WANT there to be!


My original install with my TiVo cable card went surprisingly easy (way back in 2010). When I upgraded my TiVo to a Roamio (6 tuner 3 TB version), all I did was pop in the old cable card and it worked fine. I've never had any issues. I've heard CC knowledge in the field is dropping as a buddy had varying issues when he had a suspected bad Bolt. Diagnostics kept pointing to the TiVo or the card, and VZ would bring out cards that were suspect, and if one didn't work, it just went back into a box full of used cards. Eventually, I think it was the TiVo, I'm hazy on the final resolution (it was successful), but ultimately VZ kept working at it until it was fixed. There was a possible issue with the ONT, too, which was replaced.


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## suzannesstud (Sep 11, 2016)

Well, everyone has been looking for confirmation that CableCARDs are going away, and here it is. This just came a few minutes ago in today’s mail.

Notice that this letter has an actual call to action date that none of the previous letters or emails have had.

I have whited out the name and address, in the picture, for obvious reasons.

Although this letter comes from marketing, it now has an action date, in the actual body of the letter itself, other than just a date, in the fine print, for taking advantage of getting the receiver or Apple TV.

Looks like they stopped being vague about this issue, and now they are more firmly nailing it down.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

“on or after”

This is not a definite date.


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## suzannesstud (Sep 11, 2016)

cwoody222 said:


> “on or after”
> 
> This is not a definite date.


That just means it won’t be earlier than January 20, 2023, but now they are actually coming out and saying that CableCARDs will cease to function and by when at the soonest.

They have to say “on or after” in their letters because it may not be on that exact date to allow customers to have their provisions in place. It is a 40 day notice which 45 days would be on January 25, 2023 and 60 days would be February 4, 2023 so it makes sense that they might build in an additional padding to take it up to 45 or 60 days total to allow for last minute tech appointments and self-installs.

The last letter, before today, I got about something said that “on or after” November 1, 2022, changes would be made to make all remaining SD channels come in HD and that there would be additional channels added in HD only.

This did not happen exactly “on” November 1, but it did happen a few days “after”. Now, all of the remaining SD channels are in HD on Spectrum’s end as confirmed by the resolution detected by TiVo on the incoming signal on each of the ones that were previously SD, and we’ve gotten 6 new channels, so far, in which they are no longer putting any SD counterparts on the lower side.

Every call to action letter I have received from them on anything they have done have always used that “on or after” verbiage so I anticipate they probably won’t make the change exactly on January 20 but more likely a few days after to maybe up to the first part of February 2023.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

suzannesstud said:


> That just means it won’t be earlier than January 20, 2023, but now they are actually coming out and saying that CableCARDs will cease to function and by when at the soonest.
> 
> They have to say “on or after” in their letters because it may not be on that exact date to allow customers to have their provisions in place. It is a 40 day notice which 45 days would be on January 25, 2023 and 60 days would be February 4, 2023 so it makes sense that they might build in an additional padding to take it up to 45 or 60 days total to allow for last minute tech appointments and self-installs.
> 
> ...


Could be Jan 20, could be Feb.

Could be March, April or Novemberor 2024.

Nothing is clear in the notice.


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## suzannesstud (Sep 11, 2016)

cwoody222 said:


> Could be Jan 20, could be Feb.
> 
> Could be March, April or Novemberor 2024.
> 
> Nothing is clear in the notice.


It is not closed-ended, but given that every previous notice I have ever gotten on plans of other things has also never been a closed-ended notice but said activity still occurred shortly thereafter, I put more stock in this than the previous letters I got on it back in the summer/early fall.

I’m still going take the same stance, though, of testing the waters because I can still do other means temporarily, if need be, so that if it ends up they hold off for awhile, I won’t be prematurely giving up TiVo and CableCARD/Tuning Adaper combo. If it does happen, like this notice is saying, then I’ll use alternate means for a few days to get one of their DVR’s put in, but I’m going to wait until I absolutely have to switch before I do.

As I write this, I decided to call technical support just to see what they would say about this letter since it has an actual “on or after” date in it.

The person I talked to seem pretty knowledgeable about this and he said this is happening, BUT (and take this “but” with caution of whether or not it is actually true) he said there is now still a way to keep using the CableCARD. He mentioned that the Tuning Adapter would get replaced with what he called a High Speed Converter. He said it would take the place of the Tuning Adapter and that I would keep my CableCARD with it staying paired to the TiVo.

This is the absolute first I have heard of any such thing, though, and I can’t find anything online about it. He said there are still a number of customers who have indicated they will not take any action until things stop working so either this is something very new or else a means of trying to hold out those customers in some way.

He did mention that this is supposed to overcome the problem CableCARDS will have with high-split coming where the internet will be upgraded to make the upstream speed match the downstream speed. From what he is saying it is supposed to act as a tuning adapter while alleviating the issue the higher frequencies will cause where the CableCARD likely won’t be able to hit that high, but it will still be a one-way configuration so still no VOD or interactive capabilities.

I tried calling a neighboring local cable company that services a neighboring county, and I also tried calling another of the big providers, similar to Spectrum, just to see if they had ever heard of any such device, and neither one said they had ever heard of a device called a High Speed Converter. Although technology differs at least some from provider to provider, I figured they might at least be familiar with that term or technology if it truly exists. Since they have never heard of it, I have no way, as of yet, to confirm if this device is actually a thing or not.

I’m still going to assume, for now, that the most likely scenario will be losing CableCARD, but if the representative is actually right on this, then TiVo on Spectrum might still be able to survive for the foreseeable future. The next time I am by the local office, here, I am going to go in and ask if they know about such device, and if so, if they have the device available over the counter.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

suzannesstud said:


> He mentioned that the Tuning Adapter would get replaced with what he called a High Speed Converter. He said it would take the place of the Tuning Adapter and that I would keep my CableCARD with it staying paired to the TiVo.
> This is the absolute first I have heard of any such thing, though, and I can’t find anything online about it.


It actually might be a newer TA, as already posted a couple times in another thread:








-spectrum sunsets cable cards


Was that six months free Hulu bundle offer from your wireless provider? Can I assume that it is not for the ad-free tier? BTW, last week after having let my Apple TV+ sub expire for a few days, I took advantage of stacking two offers (three months directly from Apple and four months from...




www.tivocommunity.com












-spectrum sunsets cable cards


Was that six months free Hulu bundle offer from your wireless provider? Can I assume that it is not for the ad-free tier? BTW, last week after having let my Apple TV+ sub expire for a few days, I took advantage of stacking two offers (three months directly from Apple and four months from...




www.tivocommunity.com


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

suzannesstud said:


> He did mention that this is supposed to overcome the problem CableCARDS will have with high-split coming where the internet will be upgraded to make the upstream speed match the downstream speed. From what he is saying it is supposed to act as a tuning adapter while alleviating the issue the higher frequencies will cause where the CableCARD likely won’t be able to hit that high, but it will still be a one-way configuration so still no VOD or interactive capabilities.











-spectrum sunsets cable cards


Was that six months free Hulu bundle offer from your wireless provider? Can I assume that it is not for the ad-free tier? BTW, last week after having let my Apple TV+ sub expire for a few days, I took advantage of stacking two offers (three months directly from Apple and four months from...




www.tivocommunity.com





EDIT: oops, sorry I didn’t see this was already posted above.


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## suzannesstud (Sep 11, 2016)

It sounds like the representative meant High Split Converter instead then, and that will be good to not have to give up TiVo. I can definitely be happy with replacing the Tuning Adapter with the converter and going on from there.


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## JonAult (Jan 19, 2005)

I'm in the St Louis area; I got an email this morning saying that I need to get a high split converter by January 16.



> *If you wish to continue using your CableCARD(s), you will need a High Split Converter device beginning on January 16, 2023. Without this additional equipment, the TV services you receive through your CableCARD enabled devices will no longer be accessible.*


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

JonAult said:


> I'm in the St Louis area; I got an email this morning saying that I need to get a high split converter by January 16.


I'm also in the St Louis area, so thank you for that head's up. Interesting that they're offering the High Split converter device to allow CableCARDs to keep working. I guess they figured out to do it after all.

I hadn't seen any of the emails or postal mailings in close to a month about this whole situation, so they must have been working on this process to keep CableCARDs during radio silence.

TV service is all I have with them now, having moved Internet and phone service to other providers in prep for kicking them completely to the curb. Guess maybe I don't have to now.


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## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

Where do you get a high-split converter device (in case we lose our signal and don't get any advanced warning)?


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Interesting that two sets of letters are going out.

One is vague, saying CC won’t work with some services, on an unspecified date, and urged you to get a discounted AppleTV.

One is specific, gives an exact date, and says your cc won’t work, period, unless you use their free replacement adapter.

Seems to me the vague letter is a preemptive strike to scare people into turning over their cc and the other is an actual solution for those who haven’t been duped and still have their card.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

southerndoc said:


> Where do you get a high-split converter device (in case we lose our signal and don't get any advanced warning)?


From Spectrum.

May only be offered in affected areas. They’ll notify you if it’s needed.

My law they must notify you of service changes.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

This was in an email sent to a family member who's also in the St Louis charter area, from this morning. I don't have one sent to me yet. I went to the Spectrum.com/HSC website, logged in with my Spectrum account information and ordered 5 High Split Converters to my address, just to be safe. If for some reason, I'm in the can't use them camp, then I'll return the package when it shows up.


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## ez2muz (6 mo ago)

suzannesstud said:


> It sounds like the representative meant High Split Converter instead then, and that will be good to not have to give up TiVo. I can definitely be happy with replacing the Tuning Adapter with the converter and going on from there.


Found this via Google search -- 6th paragraph mentions Vecima developing a High Split Converter as a new product. There is no date quoted or mentioned. The company is Canadian.








From Intern to Software Developer | Vecima Networks, Inc.


My internship story with Vecima Networks by Max – Former Vecima intern, current part-time Vecima software developer, and Computer Science...




vecima.com


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

It's saying on or after because chances are, they are upgrading, but the changes may or may not affect you. Nothing big is happening in January. They may move channels around and do other things, but chances are the changes will happen. Whether they affect you depends on what channels you watch. If the channel you watch is one they're going to move in late January, you will lose service. If it isn't, you probably won't notice.

All they're saying is that they're going to make changes to the network, and none of them will be done with consideration for existing CableCARD users. So maybe end of January they will do something and if you don't notice, hey, it still works. But maybe then they do something Feb 1 and you lose half your favourite TV shows. 

That's why it's "on or after" - the changes they need to make may not affect you depending on your viewing habits.

It could also be they're not sure what option you'll take - are you going to cancel? Take then up on an AppleTV? They could very well run out of an option (e.g., if everyone takes the AppleTV, given it's the holiday season) and thus have people who cannot transition because their desired option isn't available. After all, if they assumed 10,000 people would want the AppleTV, but then 30,000 people did, then they can't very well transition people away if they're not able to get everyone their desired option by the deadline.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Worf said:


> … then they can't very well transition people away if they're not able to get everyone their desired option by the deadline.


hahaha sure they could.

You think they’d delay a revenue generating feature rollout because they couldn’t deliver a special offer in time? Never.

They’d just give the customer the other option, or them the customer leave.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

ez2muz said:


> Found this via Google search -- 6th paragraph mentions Vecima developing a High Split Converter as a new product. There is no date quoted or mentioned. The company is Canadian.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The devices are in the wild, in some Spectrum markets.

A customer the TiVo Facebook group got one and posted a photo.


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## suzannesstud (Sep 11, 2016)

shrike4242 said:


> View attachment 77882
> 
> 
> This was in an email sent to a family member who's also in the St Louis charter area, from this morning. I don't have one sent to me yet. I went to the Spectrum.com/HSC website, logged in with my Spectrum account information and ordered 5 High Split Converters to my address, just to be safe. If for some reason, I'm in the can't use them camp, then I'll return the package when it shows up.


Did you order those 5 High Split Converters based on CableCARDs/Tuning Adapters only or do some of those also include Spectrum receivers, like the DCX3200, which has an embedded CableCARD in it?


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## siuengr (Oct 27, 2019)

I got the email about service shutting down on the 16th ordered a couple yesterday, and got the shipping notice today. They are supposed to arrive tomorrow. We'll see how the install goes.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

suzannesstud said:


> Did you order those 5 High Split Converters based on CableCARDs/Tuning Adapters only or do some of those also include Spectrum receivers, like the DCX3200, which has an embedded CableCARD in it?


It’s not likely Spectrum receivers need the high split converters, just like they don’t need TA’s.

If they did, LOTS more people would be getting these emails/letters… in fact, they’d probably just be sending every receiver household one with instructions.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

cwoody222 said:


> It’s not likely Spectrum receivers need the high split converters, just like they don’t need TA’s.
> 
> If they did, LOTS more people would be getting these emails/letters… in fact, they’d probably just be sending every receiver household one with instructions.


Yes. Given how few customers are affected -- apparently just those using retail CableCARD devices like TiVos -- I'm surprised that Charter even bothered with a workaround in the form of this new high-split tuning adapter. Kudos to them for supporting their customers like this. Based on the FCC's final report on retail CableCARD usage over a year ago, it appeared that only about 1 in 200 (i.e. 0.5%) eligible pay TV customers were using one. Charter loses well more cable TV customers than that every quarter, so I'm surprised they were concerned enough about the relatively small number of TiVo users to find a way to let them keep using their DVRs.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

suzannesstud said:


> Did you order those 5 High Split Converters based on CableCARDs/Tuning Adapters only or do some of those also include Spectrum receivers, like the DCX3200, which has an embedded CableCARD in it?


I have five CableCards on-hand for my five Edge boxes, so one High Split Adapter per CC. The order page made it sound like it was a one-for-one need, so I ordered appropriately. 

Shipping notice this morning, looks like it's be between Friday and Monday for delivery.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

cwoody222 said:


> The devices are in the wild, in some Spectrum markets.
> 
> A customer the TiVo Facebook group got one and posted a photo.


Your post:


cwoody222 said:


> There’s interesting new info in the TiVo Facebook group from a Spectrum user who received 4 new tuning adapters to replace his existing.
> 
> They are manufactured by Vecima and are labeled “High-Split Converter” with model HSC-1-H.
> 
> ...


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

Three boxes with the five high-split converters showed up yesterday via FedEx. Will crack a box open in the next day or to to check it over and work on getting it set up, assuming it can be done now and not later when the change happens.


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## drquest (28 d ago)

I in the St. Louis market area and a few months ago got a letter stating I was going to get a shipment with new equipment. Didn't state why, didn't state what. Nothing ever happened with that as I never got anything.

I have two cable cards, and two tuning adapters by the way.

Fast forward to this week I got a notification that they were going to be doing work overnight and we'd have a service interruption. Next morning everything looked fine, but I noticed that evening that my SDV (switched digital video) channels weren't working on either Tivo. Usually that just requires a reboot of the tuning adapters, which I did. I realized they aren't locking on anymore, just blinking yellow. I know high split is being worked on in the entire market, and I reached out to a Charter friend and he confirmed the OOB frequency the older cable boxes used for their provisioning and interactivity has been removed. At least in my area it did this week. 

So it seems these tuning adapters are dead now. Everything else seems to still be working video wise except for the SDV channels. I followed the HSC converter link and entered my info there, so hopefully those will ship soon and fix that.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

Alright, I went through a dry run of the swap of the TA to the HSC and this is what I have to offer:


The HSC is *huge*, almost as big as the Edge is. Easily twice as wide as the TA is, plus deeper and a little higher. Ports on the back are the same, cable in + cable out + USB device port + AC port. AC adapter is a small AC adapter, not a plug-in adapter/wall-wart, so it should be easier for plugging it into a surge suppressor or UPS than the wall-wart is. It also comes with two RG-59 / RG-6 RF cables in the box, both Spectrum-branded, and a USB cable.
The HSC are supposedly pre-activated and the swap is done as a self-install, as the included instructions are to swap out the TA for the HSC and call them if there are any issues post-swap.
If you've received the email with the *IMMEDIATE ACTION NEEDED*, then the node your cable TV is connected to has been set with a swap date, which is a month/month-ish from the date of the swap. If you don't have the email yet, your node isn't scheduled for the swap yet and it's a node-by-node conversion. My guess is that they're working on smaller nodes first and moving to more populated nodes further down the swap. I don't have an email yet for that change.
When I swapped out the TA for the HSC, the TiVo saw it as a TA on its end. I didn't dig through menu settings after the fact to see what looked different from the TA being in place versus the HSC.
The HSC doesn't work until the high-split happens, though from the manager I spoke with said that there's a "soft-cut" that seems to be going in 5 days before the cut date in the email, which is when the HSC should be potentially ahead of the cut date.
When I had the HSC in place, there was an obvious "No channels are available" issue like what happens when a TA isn't present or isn't working correctly. Swapping out the HSC for the TA without making any other changes had channels work again like normal.
When the cut date happens, the TA(s) on the account are deleted since they're no longer useable. The manager said "the CableCards are deleted from the account", to which I questioned the point and they corrected themselves and said it was the TA(s) were the items deleted from the account.
TA(s) that are no longer in use have to be returned back to Spectrum, either at a Spectrum store location or a UPS Store location, though they will send out a return kit as needed if the options for the other two aren't available for the customer.
They think there may be a run-up on equipment as they get closer to the cut-over dates, so getting equipment sooner than later would be a prudent move IMO.

So, it sounds like equipment-wise, I'm good to go, I just have to wait out to get the email about the cutover date and then go through the motions with the swap of TAs to HSCs. For my relative that received the email that they sent along to me, as they have a date of Jan 16th, I need to find out how many HSCs they need and get those ordered. Once on-site, then it'll be checking to see if there is this "soft-cut" in the five day window before the cutover date with trying to swap from TAs to HSCs.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

Could you please post a couple pics of the new HSC, particularly the connection ports, as it might be helpful to others going thru this.


shrike4242 said:


> RG-58


Not to nitpick, but I think you mean either RG-59 or RG-6


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## siuengr (Oct 27, 2019)

Here are a few picture of the one I received. I haven't tried to hook it up yet.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

dishrich said:


> Could you please post a couple pics of the new HSC, particularly the connection ports, as it might be helpful to others going thru this.
> 
> Not to nitpick, but I think you mean either RG-59 or RG-6


Sorry, IT guy here, RG-58 is what sticks in my head when I think of coax cable. RG-59 or RG-6, yes, that's right on the mark.

Here are pictures as requested, though I see someone else also posted them.






























The blue-circle is for an indicator light that was lit up when it was powered up and on when I was trying to work with it earlier today.

There's certainly a joke to be made about not even getting 1.0 release-level hardware, 0.4 seems to be enough to ship it out the door.


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## drquest (28 d ago)

Thanks for posting all of that info up! I never got an email about my tuning adapters shutting down. I do know they are doing these conversions hub by hub.

This earlier this week both of my tuning adapters stopped working. My cable is still working, but I can't tune any of the SDV channels, but otherwise it's good. I'm hoping I'll get these HSC convertors will ship soon.


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## shallowrob (Sep 15, 2006)

FYI. STL area here. I just hooked up my HSC I received from Spectrum. I have the same letter with the same cutover date. Recognized as tuning adapter and once I rebooted my tivo I had all my channels again. You don't need to wait for the cutover date.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

shallowrob said:


> FYI. STL area here. I just hooked up my HSC I received from Spectrum. I have the same letter with the same cutover date. Recognized as tuning adapter and once I rebooted my tivo I had all my channels again. You don't need to wait for the cutover date.


Good to know that it's in place in advance of this five day "soft cut" date that this Charter rep I spoke with yesterday, so that makes things easier on my end once I get that letter, as well as for my relative who already received it as well. 

Thank you for that update.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Looks like a HSC is just a tuning adapter on steroids.

A tuning adapter was basically a neutered cable box that requested the channel you wanted to watch which then got allocated one of the dynamic channels and TiVo tuned to it. I'm guessing a HSC is similar, except it has the ability to downconvert channels, in effect becoming a pretend SDV system. That is, TiVo asks the HSC to tune to a channel, and it internally downconverts it, then tells TiVo what channel it's on and TiVo then uses that information to tune its tuner.

Kinda like how in the old days if you had an old cable converter and a VCR and wanted to record something, you'd program the VCR to record off channel 3 or 4 and tell the converter to tune to a channel at a specific time and date. Except these days it's all automated and digital enabled.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

Worf said:


> Looks like a HSC is just a tuning adapter on steroids.
> 
> A tuning adapter was basically a neutered cable box that requested the channel you wanted to watch which then got allocated one of the dynamic channels and TiVo tuned to it. I'm guessing a HSC is similar, except it has the ability to downconvert channels, in effect becoming a pretend SDV system. That is, TiVo asks the HSC to tune to a channel, and it internally downconverts it, then tells TiVo what channel it's on and TiVo then uses that information to tune its tuner.
> 
> Kinda like how in the old days if you had an old cable converter and a VCR and wanted to record something, you'd program the VCR to record off channel 3 or 4 and tell the converter to tune to a channel at a specific time and date. Except these days it's all automated and digital enabled.


Not really. What has happened here is the OOB channel that carried the forward data from the headend so the Cable Card and company owned STBs could operate has been eliminated as the frequency spectrum where they were located was repurposed for upstream internet. The OOB channel is now broadcasted at a higher frequency and the converter will tune to that OOB signal and rebroadcast it at frequency that the TiVo can tune to so the CableCard can receive its OOB messages and the CableCard can still function. Without OOB messages the CableCard will not function, and the TiVo will not be able to tune to any channel.
INVENTION DISCLOSURE (cablelabs.com)


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## JonAult (Jan 19, 2005)

shrike4242 said:


> When I swapped out the TA for the HSC, the TiVo saw it as a TA on its end. I didn't dig through menu settings after the fact to see what looked different from the TA being in place versus the HSC.


In my case, while the HSC appears to function correctly as a tuning adaptor, the TiVo doesn't seem to think that a tuning adapter is connected (at least that's what the "Remote, CableCard & Devices" screen shows).


> TA(s) that are no longer in use have to be returned back to Spectrum, either at a Spectrum store location or a UPS Store location, though they will send out a return kit as needed if the options for the other two aren't available for the customer.


The box with my HSC included a return shipping label; I assume that's what I'll use to send the TAs back, though I'm not going to bother with it until after the holidays.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Let’s hope the HSC experience will be better than the TA one. I used a TWC/Spectrum TA (1520 model) for 11 years (2009 - 2019) and they never got it right. For the first few years it would lose authorization every month, which required a phone call to get fixed. After that if would simply quit functioning every few weeks, requiring a power-cycle to fix, and usually restarting the TiVo also. Many people on this forum had to power-cycle much more often and even set up lamp timers to do it every day.


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## drquest (28 d ago)

I ordered my two HSC's and still don't have a shipping notice. Called the number 866-532-2598 and they showed my order was on my account, but said they are waiting for another shipment of these to come in as they are all out of them.


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## Steven Rogers (Jul 30, 2017)

Got my HSC today (in St. Louis City). Was able to hook up and have running in less than 15 minutes. Not sure if it was necessary, but I restarted my TiVo Roamio.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

I did go through the swap process of the HSC for the TA at my relative's house, it did work after a reboot without any call-out to Spectrum. 

I can only hope mine go this easy when I get to the same point.


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## bobg573 (Jan 9, 2002)

drquest said:


> I ordered my two HSC's and still don't have a shipping notice. Called the number 866-532-2598 and they showed my order was on my account, but said they are waiting for another shipment of these to come in as they are all out of them.


Lexington, KY, here. I requested two HSCs on Dec 22 and went two weeks with no response. I called the 2598 number today and was told they had received my request but that HSCs are not yet available "in my area". I was told to expect an update within two weeks.

Our TiVos lost cable access on Dec 16 after a few dozen of those vague warning letters with no specific dates (at least on the ones we got). The tech who came to our house told me that high-split had been implemented here with no warning to them. He was unaware of the HSC possibility and had been telling other unhappy TiVo users that he couldn't help them.

P.S. I just noticed how old my signature is. We currently have one Roamio and one Bolt. The latter is a cable/OTA model and is currently recording from an antenna since cable is unusable.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

bobg573 said:


> ………. The tech who came to our house told me that high-split had been implemented here with no warning to them. He was unaware of the HSC possibility and had been telling other unhappy TiVo users that he couldn't help them.
> ……………..


Typically the techs know barely enough to handle the most mainstream issues (which excludes anything related to TiVo, Cable Card, TA and HSC). This is by design since doing better would require spending a lot more time/money training techs. And even with reasonable training, techs are going to forget things they only encounter extremely rarely in the field.


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

dlfl said:


> Typically the techs know barely enough to handle the most mainstream issues (which excludes anything related to TiVo, Cable Card, TA and HSC). This is by design since doing better would require spending a lot more time/money training techs.


Furthermore, there are two groups of techs in many locations, the in-house (employee) ones, and the contractors, and the contractors only get paid to complete a task (usually the same payment for an easy or hard install when the task is "Install Internet"), so have little to no interest in spending lots of time on the especially complex cases, as it is just losing them money.



> And even with reasonable training, techs are going to forget things they only encounter extremely rarely in the field.


To be slightly fair, I tend to forget how to do things I only do once every few years, too. "They say your memory is the second thing to go. I can't remember what the first was."


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## SirKnowsALot (Jun 3, 2015)

bobg573 said:


> Lexington, KY, here. I requested two HSCs on Dec 22 and went two weeks with no response. I called the 2598 number today and was told they had received my request but that HSCs are not yet available "in my area". I was told to expect an update within two weeks.
> 
> Our TiVos lost cable access on Dec 16 after a few dozen of those vague warning letters with no specific dates (at least on the ones we got). The tech who came to our house told me that high-split had been implemented here with no warning to them. He was unaware of the HSC possibility and had been telling other unhappy TiVo users that he couldn't help them.
> 
> P.S. I just noticed how old my signature is. We currently have one Roamio and one Bolt. The latter is a cable/OTA model and is currently recording from an antenna since cable is unusable.


I am also in Lexington. I lost my access at that same time. I called the cablecard support number (866-532-2598) and asked them to re-pair my CC and Tivo. The guy confirmed everything was as expected, but I didn't feel like he actually did the re-pairing. After some more diagnosing, he declared "your CC must have gone bad" (heard that a lot before) and set up a truck roll. The tech was very helpful and said we had just done the high-split. He called what I believe was the CC support line and got them to re-pair my CC. All my channels started working again. I'm using a series 3 TivoHD with a Motorola tuning adapter.

I have a friend who also lost access as well. They had a Spectrum tech come out (actually prior to my tech visit) and tell them essentially that the Tivo was now incompatible with the network. Since MY Tivo was now fully functional again, I offered to come over and call the CC support line to re-pair their Tivo. I told the agent we just did the high-split and needed to re-pair the Tivo and CC. He replied that he didn't believe Lexington had done the split yet. Long story short, we did the re-pairing and their Tivo regained all their channels. Thus I know that the re-pair was all that was necessary, since it was _me_ on the phone with CC support.

As an epilogue, my friend actually had 2 Tivos that stopped working. However, after re-pairing the first one, the second one regained its channels as well. This I cannot explain. Somehow it "cleaned the pipes" I guess.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

SirKnowsALot said:


> I am also in Lexington. I lost my access at that same time. I called the cablecard support number (866-532-2598) and asked them to re-pair my CC and Tivo. The guy confirmed everything was as expected, but I didn't feel like he actually did the re-pairing. After some more diagnosing, he declared "your CC must have gone bad" (heard that a lot before) and set up a truck roll. The tech was very helpful and said we had just done the high-split. He called what I believe was the CC support line and got them to re-pair my CC. All my channels started working again. I'm using a series 3 TivoHD with a Motorola tuning adapter.
> 
> I have a friend who also lost access as well. They had a Spectrum tech come out (actually prior to my tech visit) and tell them essentially that the Tivo was now incompatible with the network. Since MY Tivo was now fully functional again, I offered to come over and call the CC support line to re-pair their Tivo. I told the agent we just did the high-split and needed to re-pair the Tivo and CC. He replied that he didn't believe Lexington had done the split yet. Long story short, we did the re-pairing and their Tivo regained all their channels. Thus I know that the re-pair was all that was necessary, since it was _me_ on the phone with CC support.
> 
> As an epilogue, my friend actually had 2 Tivos that stopped working. However, after re-pairing the first one, the second one regained its channels as well. This I cannot explain. Somehow it "cleaned the pipes" I guess.


So, as we’ve learned time and time and time again, especially with Spectrum… when they tell you TiVos are no longer supported or a cable card has “gone bad”, the actual problem is on their end and can be fixed with a phone call.


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## drquest (28 d ago)

SirKnowsALot said:


> I am also in Lexington. I lost my access at that same time. I called the cablecard support number (866-532-2598) and asked them to re-pair my CC and Tivo. The guy confirmed everything was as expected, but I didn't feel like he actually did the re-pairing. After some more diagnosing, he declared "your CC must have gone bad" (heard that a lot before) and set up a truck roll. The tech was very helpful and said we had just done the high-split. He called what I believe was the CC support line and got them to re-pair my CC. All my channels started working again. I'm using a series 3 TivoHD with a Motorola tuning adapter.
> 
> I have a friend who also lost access as well. They had a Spectrum tech come out (actually prior to my tech visit) and tell them essentially that the Tivo was now incompatible with the network. Since MY Tivo was now fully functional again, I offered to come over and call the CC support line to re-pair their Tivo. I told the agent we just did the high-split and needed to re-pair the Tivo and CC. He replied that he didn't believe Lexington had done the split yet. Long story short, we did the re-pairing and their Tivo regained all their channels. Thus I know that the re-pair was all that was necessary, since it was _me_ on the phone with CC support.
> 
> As an epilogue, my friend actually had 2 Tivos that stopped working. However, after re-pairing the first one, the second one regained its channels as well. This I cannot explain. Somehow it "cleaned the pipes" I guess.


So you had lost all channels? I'm out of the St. Louis market, and I can confirm high split was completed, and my tuning adapters now are just hunting for signal. The out of band frequencies those were using are gone. I have channels, but just don't have any channels that are related to the SDV(switched digital video) lineup.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

drquest said:


> So you had lost all channels? I'm out of the St. Louis market, and I can confirm high split was completed, and my tuning adapters now are just hunting for signal. The out of band frequencies those were using are gone. I have channels, but just don't have any channels that are related to the SDV(switched digital video) lineup.


Sounds like you need the new high split converters to replace your tuning adapters.


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## drquest (28 d ago)

cwoody222 said:


> Sounds like you need the new high split converters to replace your tuning adapters.


Exactly... I called the CC number on the 23rd. They confirmed I had ordered two new tuning adapters, but they don't have any currently to send out.


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## SirKnowsALot (Jun 3, 2015)

drquest said:


> So you had lost all channels? I'm out of the St. Louis market, and I can confirm high split was completed, and my tuning adapters now are just hunting for signal. The out of band frequencies those were using are gone. I have channels, but just don't have any channels that are related to the SDV(switched digital video) lineup.


Yes, I lost everything. This led me to believe it was something other than high-split. I confirmed the OOB freq was still 75 MHz.
I believe if high split was completed in your market, the HSC would be required.
In my case the tech at my house said we _had converted_, but when I personally talked with the agent at the cablecard support center, he told me we _had not_.
Thus, my old tuning adapter still worked.


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## drquest (28 d ago)

SirKnowsALot said:


> Yes, I lost everything. This led me to believe it was something other than high-split. I confirmed the OOB freq was still 75 MHz.
> I believe if high split was completed in your market, the HSC would be required.
> In my case the tech at my house said we _had converted_, but when I personally talked with the agent at the cablecard support center, he told me we _had not_.
> Thus, my old tuning adapter still worked.


That does make sense and odds are your CC's just needed to get a hit from the system. 

I happen to know an ISP Manager for Charter and he confirmed that high split had completed for my area. Not sure why I missed out on the first batch of HSC's, but it's bothering me less than it is my family as some channels just don't work. I have Apple TV's on just about every TV as well, so we can just use the app if needed. Hopefully they will ship out the new adapters soon. I may call them again this week.


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## Wattsline (Apr 27, 2015)

I'm in St. Louis and have a question. Before I just had split the cable and had one leg going to tuning adapter and the other going to Tivo. In the instructions for the high split tuning adapter they have the cable going through the tuning adapter to Tivo. Does it need to be done this way or can I just have a separate signal going to the tuning adapter?

Thanks!


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Wattsline said:


> I'm in St. Louis and have a question. Before I just had split the cable and had one leg going to tuning adapter and the other going to Tivo. In the instructions for the high split tuning adapter they have the cable going through the tuning adapter to Tivo. Does it need to be done this way or can I just have a separate signal going to the tuning adapter?
> 
> Thanks!


Are you asking about the “old” type of TA or the “new” (HSC - “High split”) type? TA’s, at least the Cisco STA1520 ones, could always be configured either way (splitter or direct thru) and there was much debate on this forum about which way was better. IMO it made little difference but there were many who insisted the splitter configuration was best. I assume the HSC’s come with instructions and you should try that way first.

Have to admit I don’t have a dog in this fight. I cut cable 3+ yrs ago after enduring a TA for 10 yrs. I joyously took the TA out into a field and crushed it. (At least in my imagination).


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## Wattsline (Apr 27, 2015)

dlfl said:


> Are you asking about the “old” type of TA or the “new” (HSC - “High split”) type? TA’s, at least the Cisco STA1520 ones, could always be configured either way (splitter or direct thru) and there was much debate on this forum about which way was better. IMO it made little difference but there were many who insisted the splitter configuration was best. I assume the HSC’s come with instructions and you should try that way first.
> 
> Have to admit I don’t have a dog in this fight. I cut cable 3+ yrs ago after enduring a TA for 10 yrs. I joyously took the TA out into a field and crushed it. (At least in my imagination).


Yes, I was talking about going from old to new. All the tuning adapter does it turn on the channel when you go to a channel on Tivo. That's what the USB connection is for, to tell the tuning adapter what channel you're tuning to. I don't like routing the signal through something else that could degrade it. 

Anyway, I was asking if it is mandatory for operation if it must go through the new high split tuning adapter. Anybody have any real world experience?


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## bobg573 (Jan 9, 2002)

SirKnowsALot said:


> I am also in Lexington. I lost my access at that same time. I called the cablecard support number (866-532-2598) and asked them to re-pair my CC and Tivo. The guy confirmed everything was as expected, but I didn't feel like he actually did the re-pairing. After some more diagnosing, he declared "your CC must have gone bad" (heard that a lot before) and set up a truck roll. The tech was very helpful and said we had just done the high-split. He called what I believe was the CC support line and got them to re-pair my CC. All my channels started working again. I'm using a series 3 TivoHD with a Motorola tuning adapter.


Thanks much for your post. I called the 2598 team again and was able to get our Roamio working, although our tuning adapter is still blinking yellow and we're still missing those channels. The support guy said everything is good on their end for the TA so it has to be a TiVo problem. (Yeah, right.)

I'll mess with the Bolt once I get it switched back from antenna to cable.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

bobg573 said:


> Thanks much for your post. I called the 2598 team again and was able to get our Roamio working, although our tuning adapter is still blinking yellow and we're still missing those channels. The support guy said everything is good on their end for the TA so it has to be a TiVo problem. (Yeah, right.)
> 
> I'll mess with the Bolt once I get it switched back from antenna to cable.


Mine did that when the cable company had disabled/removed the TA on their end. Not a Tivo issue at all.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

mdavej said:


> Mine did that when the cable company had disabled/removed the TA on their end. Not a Tivo issue at all.


Survey says: Issues caused by
TiVo 0.01%
Cable System 99.98%
Flying Saucers 0.01%
Results of a rigorous scientific analysis conducted by me. For details PM me to arrange payment.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Wattsline said:


> ……. I don't like routing the signal through something else that could degrade it. ……..


[SMALL_POINT] Of course a splitter is something else that could degrade the signal, At a minimum it introduces at least 3 dB loss. It was my understanding that the STA1520 TA’s actually slightly amplified the signal (in the straight thru configuration). Granted, that amplification might be more likely to distort the signal than a passive splitter. [/SMALL_POINT]


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

Wattsline said:


> In the instructions for the high split tuning adapter they have the cable going through the tuning adapter to Tivo. Does it need to be done this way or can I just have a separate signal going to the tuning adapter?


Until someone does a proper tear down of the HSC(0)(1) one cannot be sure, but if *I* was designing the device I would have included a high-split HPF into the device to avoid the quite possible impacts to your TiVo (or other UDCP/OCUR tuner) from very common residential wiring topologies (even more so if the customer has chosen to use wally world "gold" splitters), of which none of the impacts may be seen until Charter actually enables the higher speed tiers with high-split enabled (at this point, Charter is mostly just doing the prep work that will allow them to move forward to the next steps at some future point).

Unless you strongly object to minimizing future failure modes (and will remember the recommendations and change appropriately if things go sideways at some future time), I would place the device inline as stated.


(0) And/or does a full spectrum analysis of the RF stream and decode of the signals sent, and that come out of the HSC (which may require your analyzer to be certified by CableLABs to obtain the required certs (which basically means very expensive commercial tools)).

(1) That may also require SMT rework tools to implement ICE tools and/or SPI/JTAG access to see what is actually being done (again, these tend to be very expensive commercial tools).


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

CommunityMember said:


> Until someone does a proper tear down of the HSC(0)(1) one cannot be sure, but if *I* was designing the device I would have included a high-split HPF into the device to avoid the quite possible impacts to your TiVo (or other UDCP/OCUR tuner) from very common residential wiring topologies (even more so if the customer has chosen to use wally world "gold" splitters), of which none of the impacts may be seen until Charter actually enables the higher speed tiers with high-split enabled (at this point, Charter is mostly just doing the prep work that will allow them to move forward to the next steps at some future point).
> 
> Unless you strongly object to minimizing future failure modes (and will remember the recommendations and change appropriately if things go sideways at some future time), I would place the device inline as stated.
> 
> ...


Wow, I’m suffering from acronym overload here.
HPF? OCUR? SMT? ICE? SPI/JTAG?
I thought I knew ICE (internal combustion engine) but that doesn’t seem right here.

Just as a favor to others suffering overload:
HPF = high pass filter
OCUR = OpenCable Unidirectional Receiver
ICE = in circuit emulation (?? 50 different meanings in IT context per acronymfinder.com)
According to acronymfinder.com:
SPI has 38 different meanings in the information technology context.
SMT has 18 different meanings in the information technology context
JTAG means Joint Test Action Group

The acronyms give an impression of expertise but I have to wonder what percentage of readers here are well served by them. I think what you’re saying in a few easily understood words is that the answer requires a more detailed engineering analysis using sophisticated tools — and that makes sense. There is of course another approach: try it both ways!


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## CurtJester (Apr 1, 2021)

dlfl said:


> Just as a favor to others suffering overload:
> HPF = high pass filter
> OCUR = OpenCable Unidirectional Receiver
> ICE = in circuit emulation (?? 50 different meanings in IT context per acronymfinder.com)
> ...


That was a bit of soup, but I don't think the expansions help. SMT is Surface Mount Technology; I'd probably have written "surface mount", the feeling of technology is gone when it's everywhere. ICE is indeed in-circuit emulation, SPI is Serial Peripheral Interface, and you got JTAG. The thing is, though, knowing what ICE expands to is only gives a small clue, and knowing what SPI and JTAG expand to tells you little without the right context. In this context, you'd use SPI and JTAG-based systems to read the contents of flash memory chips, at a minimum. JTAG might be usable to probe the processor, but only if the maker allows it (see below).

What they're saying is that a proper tear-down would require a high-quality setup for working with surface mount electronics (probably "BGAs" -- Ball Grid Array chips where all the pins are under the chip, and not just at the edges) and specialty hardware to interface to pick at what the microprocessors inside are running.

That said, I'd question how much insight ICE/SPI/JTAG would enable. It's all but guaranteed that the processors are running some sort of secure/verified boot setup that only permits code that has been cryptographically signed by the originators to run, and it's very possible that code is also encrypted as part of the setup. I'd also expect processor JTAG access to be disabled. In-circuit emulators, if they existed for the chips this box uses (it gets rarer and rarer to see available ICE), would probably require a discussion with the chip vendor. I'd doubt that off-the-shelf parts are used for most of this.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

CurtJester said:


> That was a bit of soup, but I don't think the expansions help. SMT is Surface Mount Technology; I'd probably have written "surface mount", the feeling of technology is gone when it's everywhere. ICE is indeed in-circuit emulation, SPI is Serial Peripheral Interface, and you got JTAG. The thing is, though, knowing what ICE expands to is only gives a small clue, and knowing what SPI and JTAG expand to tells you little without the right context. In this context, you'd use SPI and JTAG-based systems to read the contents of flash memory chips, at a minimum. JTAG might be usable to probe the processor, but only if the maker allows it (see below).
> 
> What they're saying is that a proper tear-down would require a high-quality setup for working with surface mount electronics (probably "BGAs" -- Ball Grid Array chips where all the pins are under the chip, and not just at the edges) and specialty hardware to interface to pick at what the microprocessors inside are running.
> 
> That said, I'd question how much insight ICE/SPI/JTAG would enable. It's all but guaranteed that the processors are running some sort of secure/verified boot setup that only permits code that has been cryptographically signed by the originators to run, and it's very possible that code is also encrypted as part of the setup. I'd also expect processor JTAG access to be disabled. In-circuit emulators, if they existed for the chips this box uses (it gets rarer and rarer to see available ICE), would probably require a discussion with the chip vendor. I'd doubt that off-the-shelf parts are used for most of this.


err …. thanks I guess! I’m an EE (that’s another acronym) myself, albeit an old one getting frayed around the edges and in need of a retread. So I understand some of this. But …. for the purposes of 99% of readers here, doesn’t this pretty much boil down to what I said before:
“ ….the answer requires a more detailed engineering analysis using sophisticated tools“ ?

I might be selling this forum short. Maybe more than 1% of members understand the technical details!


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## CurtJester (Apr 1, 2021)

dlfl said:


> I might be selling this forum short. Maybe more than 1% of members understand the technical details!


There might be 2% who understand! Joking aside, the hackability, especially of Series 1, definitely attracted tinkerers of many different skill levels to TiVo.

I might be an outlier, I worked for years on set-top box development (not TiVo). I created this account because my original TiVo-user account for here has a bit much of my name in it, and I don't want any issues if I accidentally say too much.


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