# Why did D* bother with the 6.3 upgrade with the H20 just released?



## jimmymiko (Mar 29, 2003)

Does anybody have any idea why D* bothered to upgrade the "old" technology of the H10? With the H20 just released what is the motive? We have had the same OS for a few years that is mostly stable why upgrade now? 

Maybe it is just to see just how loyal their customers are!


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## Brewer4 (May 6, 2004)

Internally dont care about D*'s processing but I like others have no intention of getting rid of my HR10. My family loves the Hr10. They will work the bugs out but I think it was the right thing to do. Faster HR10's will keep HD subscribers happy for a few years.


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## alv (May 6, 2004)

Brewer4 said:


> Faster HR10's will keep HD subscribers happy for a few years.


Will that really be true if there are lots of channels the HR10 will not receive?


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

jimmymiko said:


> Does anybody have any idea why D* bothered to upgrade the "old" technology of the H10?


Perhaps to prove once and for all that there is no great conspiracy concerning the HR20.


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

Maybe it's because they promised it to the HR10-250 customers a few years ago and have been working on it since then.

Maybe it's because they have sold a very large quantity of HR10-250's to they're customers and they want to keep them happy. Many of the customers spent $999 like myself or even $750 like my second one cost.

I don't think everyone will upgrade there are people that love TiVo and don't want any other DVR software. This is a TiVo forum, not a DirecTV DVR+ forum. The only reason it's here is for the TiVo software.

I for one am really happy they made the upgrade. I record NBC, HBO, Showtime, and Discovery all in HD on my HR10-250 and will keep both for a very long time. Even if they come out with some great new HD channels I don't know if I would get them.

I spent $800 on a new TiVo S3 and $35 a month for Comcast Basic with HD just to get the other locals in HD on TiVo software. That's how much some people love TiVo and just don't want to use other DVR software no matter what.

-Joe


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## bodosom (Apr 28, 2002)

jrock said:


> I for one am really happy they made the upgrade. I record NBC, HBO, Showtime, and Discovery all in HD on my HR10-250 and will keep both for a very long time. Even if they come out with some great new HD channels I don't know if I would get them.


The problem isn't new stuff its repurposing the existing transponders to mpeg4 at which time our wonderful HD-TiVos will be reduced to OTA HD recorders. While this is unlikely to happen soon it will probably happen well before "a very long time".


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## jimmymiko (Mar 29, 2003)

Joe - 
I love TiVo also, I had a stand alone with D* for years but when I was paying $24 for two stand alones when I could have been paying $10 ($5.00 for DVR $5.00 for the mirror) for DirecTivos, I went with the cheaper option. I would love to stick with Tivo but I am just not going to pay for it when the time comes. I like D* because of the quality of the picture and from what I am told the quality of the HR20 is better than the HR10 for SD which is most of the programming. I will never go back to cable because the quality was just not up to par with D*. Tivo has shut the door on satellite tv with the S3 so what other option is there. The HR10 will go away in time and Tivo doesn't have any HD alternative for satellite users. I first used this board when I had two series 1 Tivo's now I have one DirecTivo HR10 and one R15 so I still have interest in the Tivo world. The R15 isn't bad and is getting better with every software upgrade. I think Tivo is still better because it is more stable with 3.1 but with 6.3 i am not so sure. I think the OS doesn't matter if it does it's job. I don't think Tivo is marketing their product very well, I hope it survives as it is a great product. Remember the Beta vs the VHS? Beta was better but VHS caught on. Just my $.02


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

I don't think they will move the existing channels over to MPG4 and screw the HR10-250's because if they do then like you said why bother spending all this money on the upgrade. They will have ton's of PO'd customers that spent a lot of money on the HR10-250's if they do that. I think they can just shoot up more satellites for there other SD channels as well as HD and leave the existing ones in tact. They should leave everything as is right now and add all new programming to the new satellites so if people want the new stuff they get the new equipment and dish but for the people that are happy with what they have let them be. I don't see why they would be planning on doing something like this any time in the near future especially after going through with this upgrade and all the trouble and bugs they have had sending it back to TiVo and re sending it out to customers.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

My suspicion is that the update is the result of the latest support agreement that DTV signed with TiVo. DTV would like to replace all the HR10s with their own POS, but they certainly don't want to be forced to do it all at once because the software becomes unsupported. So TiVo had some small measure of leverage and it would make sense for them to insist that the software be updated to something more current as a condition of support.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

jimmymiko said:


> I like D* because of the quality of the picture and from what I am told the quality of the HR20 is better than the HR10 for SD which is most of the programming.


 I'm curious where you heard that the HR20 SD quality is superior ...and why that would be?


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

nrc said:


> My suspicion is that the update is the result of the latest support agreement that DTV signed with TiVo. DTV would like to replace all the HR10s with their own POS, but they certainly don't want to be forced to do it all at once because the software becomes unsupported.


This makes no sense. If they wanted to replace all of the HR10s then they simply would not have renewed/extended the agreement with Tivo. It's not like they would have had to replace them all at once since the existing software was already out for years and relatively stable. Tivo 'support' would have been minimal and probably nonexistent. All they had to do was replace units as they eventually broke or from customer attrition.


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## jimmymiko (Mar 29, 2003)

Sir_whinealot said:


> I'm curious where you heard that the HR20 SD quality is superior ...and why that would be?


Click Here

And Here

Not sure why but I have seen several post about it at the other forum.


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## Cy Jervis (Apr 23, 2002)

jimmymiko said:


> Does anybody have any idea why D* bothered to upgrade the "old" technology of the H10? With the H20 just released what is the motive? We have had the same OS for a few years that is mostly stable why upgrade now?
> 
> Maybe it is just to see just how loyal their customers are!


Judging from the people reporting problems after the upgrade, maybe it was to make people want to switch to a new receiver.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Mark Lopez said:


> This makes no sense. If they wanted to replace all of the HR10s then they simply would not have renewed/extended the agreement with Tivo. It's not like they would have had to replace them all at once since the existing software was already out for years and relatively stable. Tivo 'support' would have been minimal and probably nonexistent. All they had to do was replace units as they eventually broke or from customer attrition.


If DirecTV considered a "no support" scenario an option then why renew the contract at all? Do you suppose that DTV just enjoys sharing a portion of the DVR revenue with TiVo?

No, it would be foolish for DirecTV to put themselves and in a situation where a bug uncovered by a change in the datastream could shutdown thousands of subscribers with no recourse except to replace their receiver.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

They waited until now because this was when TiVo had a modern version of the system software with MRV completely removed, just like on the series 3. (6.3 seems to be based on the same software that's on the s3.)


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

Mark Lopez said:


> This makes no sense. If they wanted to replace all of the HR10s then they simply would not have renewed/extended the agreement with Tivo. It's not like they would have had to replace them all at once since the existing software was already out for years and relatively stable. Tivo 'support' would have been minimal and probably nonexistent. All they had to do was replace units as they eventually broke or from customer attrition.


Eventually they will - remember there are no new HR10's coming into the market channel line anymore, all that are left are the refurbs.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

jrock said:


> I don't think they will move the existing channels over to MPG4 and screw the HR10-250's because if they do then like you said why bother spending all this money on the upgrade. They will have ton's of PO'd customers that spent a lot of money on the HR10-250's if they do that. I think they can just shoot up more satellites for there other SD channels as well as HD and leave the existing ones in tact. They should leave everything as is right now and add all new programming to the new satellites so if people want the new stuff they get the new equipment and dish but for the people that are happy with what they have let them be. I don't see why they would be planning on doing something like this any time in the near future especially after going through with this upgrade and all the trouble and bugs they have had sending it back to TiVo and re sending it out to customers.


Uhhhhh....it's been the plan for 2 years now. Within 2 years if not less there will be no more HD channels via DirecTV the HR10 can receive. They are moving all HD to MPEG4 once the 2 new sats go up next year. At that point the HR10 will only be able to record OTA HD (and of course any SD content).


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## WeBoat (Nov 6, 2002)

Personally I think it was a pretty smart marketing move.

The S3 is released. Quite a few customers with HR10-250's are frustrated because they do not have the latest software, folders, speed, etc.

Personally, I was considering getting the S3 and dropping DirecTV. Then magicaly the talk is out there that my hr10 might be getting the new software. So, I stop thinking about the S3 and adopt the wait and see attitude.

Now I have the new software. It's mostly ok, a little buggy, but they will fix it and I'll just wait and see if the S3 is viable and how the HR20 works out. In the meantime, I'm still sending DTV my whatever a month and not giving it to comcast.

Seems like the timing was very critical to my case. I wonder how many other HR10 owners out there had the same thought process?


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

bonscott87 said:


> Uhhhhh....it's been the plan for 2 years now. Within 2 years if not less there will be no more HD channels via DirecTV the HR10 can receive. They are moving all HD to MPEG4 once the 2 new sats go up next year. At that point the HR10 will only be able to record OTA HD (and of course any SD content).


Well that royally sucks. I hope when that happens they loose a lot of loyal TiVo customers like myself. I can't get OTA where I am. I already have the S3 though so I will probably flip flop the setup I have. Now I have the super DirecTV premium channel package and just basic Comcast to get the locals in HD. So when DirecTV does that I will switch to the lowest DirecTV plan for the better quality SD and switch Comcast to the high plan to get all those HD channels.

-Joe


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## Krookut (Apr 7, 2002)

I'm in the Philly locals market, but as a Jets fan love getting the NY HD network feeds. I will sorely miss them when forced to go MPEG4.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Sir_whinealot
> I'm curious where you heard that the HR20 SD quality is superior ...and why that would be?
> 
> ...


There's nothing in either of those threads that talks about the PQ of the HR10. They just compare the PQ of SD content when viewed through the HR20 vs. other HD receivers. Besides, it's not Tivo that determines which markets they are allowed to participate in. DTV calls the shots with their own service, not Tivo. Tivo wanted to keep the partnership going. It was DTV that wanted to bail until Tivo threatened to sue for copyright infringements.



> Tivo has shut the door on satellite tv with the S3 so what other option is there. The HR10 will go away in time and Tivo doesn't have any HD alternative for satellite users.


Tivo and DTV just renewed their agreement for another three years so I don't see how you can say that Tivo is shutting the door on anything sat related. The S3 just provides them with an additional market for their prioducts.

The HR10 will still be in use years from now. If you have an active DTV account with the DVR service you will be able to use it indefinitely. You can bet that the Tivo/DVR service for the HR10 will extend well beyond the current three year window. DTV has too many loyal Tivo customers to simply cut them off.

It makes more sense for DTV to keep them and have a steady source of income from existing DTivo owners than to have to provide them with new DVRs that are mpeg4 ready. The mpeg2 channels will still be broadcast for a long time. The HR10 will still be able to record the mpeg2 programming as well as OTA HD content.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

jrock said:


> Well that royally sucks. I hope when that happens they loose a lot of loyal TiVo customers like myself.


Perhaps some like yourself. Most people aren't married to Tivo. They just want a DVR. Already many hardcore Tivo'ites are converted to the HR20 and really like it or at least see the potential in it. The HR20 is selling like hotcakes and they can't keep up with the demand right now. Doesn't look like a failure to me. If they lose a few thousand die hard Tivo users that's nothing but a drop in the bucket to 15 million they have overall.

Tivo isn't the only way to do things and isn't the end all/be all of all DVRs.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

bonscott87 said:


> The HR20 is selling like hotcakes and they can't keep up with the demand right now.


How do you know this? Any idea how many they've sold thus far?


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

bonscott87 said:


> The HR20 is selling like hotcakes and they can't keep up with the demand right now.


Didn't you misspeak? How much are they currently charging up front for the privilege of leasing one?


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

jimmymiko said:


> Joe -
> I love TiVo also, I had a stand alone with D* for years but when I was paying $24 for two stand alones when I could have been paying $10 ($5.00 for DVR $5.00 for the mirror) for DirecTivos, I went with the cheaper option. I would love to stick with Tivo but I am just not going to pay for it when the time comes. I like D* because of the quality of the picture and from what I am told the quality of the HR20 is better than the HR10 for SD which is most of the programming. I will never go back to cable because the quality was just not up to par with D*. Tivo has shut the door on satellite tv with the S3 so what other option is there. The HR10 will go away in time and Tivo doesn't have any HD alternative for satellite users. I first used this board when I had two series 1 Tivo's now I have one DirecTivo HR10 and one R15 so I still have interest in the Tivo world. The R15 isn't bad and is getting better with every software upgrade. I think Tivo is still better because it is more stable with 3.1 but with 6.3 i am not so sure. I think the OS doesn't matter if it does it's job. I don't think Tivo is marketing their product very well, I hope it survives as it is a great product. Remember the Beta vs the VHS? Beta was better but VHS caught on. Just my $.02


The only thing you can count on is change. 10 years ago when I got Directv the picture quality(PQ) on Directv was better than cable. Now cable has changed most of their channels to digital and Directv over compresses the low def channels. I have cable for high speed internet and if I connect my TV to the cable I can get a few digital cable channels on my TV's build in QAM tuner. A couple of weeks ago I was seeing what I could get and found the Game Show Network in the clear via Cable TV. I was shocked at how great it looked. Then I compared to the same channel on Directv. The Directv version was blurry and the color was somewhat washed out. The cable version was like DVD quality. Directv was like VHS Tape. The difference was huge.

I really like Tivo. I think the reason Directv put out the 6.3 software is because they will lose a number of subscribers to Cable TV due to the availability of HD Tivo for cable. I was certainly thinking about it. Now that my Directv HD Tivo works fast and has folders I can stay with Directv for a while and see what happens. Most of what I watch is in HD so low def is not that important to me.

However, if you watch low def and want better PQ, check out your local cable company. Things have changed and the pendulum might be swinging back to cable.


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

bonscott87 said:


> Tivo isn't the only way to do things and isn't the end all/be all of all DVRs.


Well it is on this Forum. Technically according to the rules we aren't even supposed to be discussing non TiVo DVR's on here.


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## alant40 (Oct 23, 2004)

Jon J said:


> Didn't you misspeak? How much are they currently charging up front for the privilege of leasing one?


They charged me 36.75$, handling and taxes, for 2 H20's and 1 HD receiver along with the new 5 LNB dish and 2 Zinwell Multi switches. Of course I've been with them since the start and spend a fortune on the packages. Deals can be made for these receivers, I just kept calling till I got the right one...


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## jimmymiko (Mar 29, 2003)

jrock said:


> Well it is on this Forum. Technically according to the rules we aren't even supposed to be discussing non TiVo DVR's on here.


Rules are only made to be broken! 

The real question is why the 6.3 upgrade on HR10, I thought that was a Tivo based system?


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## jimmymiko (Mar 29, 2003)

Runch Machine said:


> The only thing you can count on is change. 10 years ago when I got Directv the picture quality(PQ) on Directv was better than cable. Now cable has changed most of their channels to digital and Directv over compresses the low def channels. I have cable for high speed internet and if I connect my TV to the cable I can get a few digital cable channels on my TV's build in QAM tuner. A couple of weeks ago I was seeing what I could get and found the Game Show Network in the clear via Cable TV. I was shocked at how great it looked. Then I compared to the same channel on Directv. The Directv version was blurry and the color was somewhat washed out. The cable version was like DVD quality. Directv was like VHS Tape. The difference was huge.
> 
> I really like Tivo. I think the reason Directv put out the 6.3 software is because they will lose a number of subscribers to Cable TV due to the availability of HD Tivo for cable. I was certainly thinking about it. Now that my Directv HD Tivo works fast and has folders I can stay with Directv for a while and see what happens. Most of what I watch is in HD so low def is not that important to me.
> 
> However, if you watch low def and want better PQ, check out your local cable company. Things have changed and the pendulum might be swinging back to cable.


It was awhile ago I tried digital Cable.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Sir_whinealot said:


> How do you know this? Any idea how many they've sold thus far?


Well the entire first shipments sold out and installs are now backing up into November with so many people wanting it. Anyway, it's a fact it's selling well. Anyway, I won't discuss the "forbidden" DVR anymore in this thread.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

bonscott87 said:


> Perhaps some like yourself. Most people aren't married to Tivo. They just want a DVR. Already many hardcore Tivo'ites are converted to the HR20 and really like it or at least see the potential in it. The HR20 is selling like hotcakes and they can't keep up with the demand right now. Doesn't look like a failure to me. If they lose a few thousand die hard Tivo users that's nothing but a drop in the bucket to 15 million they have overall.


I agree. But many of the Tivo zealots here seem to think they are DirecTV's only customers.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

bonscott87 said:


> it's a fact it's selling well.


No, it isn't a fact.

You can't sell something that people can't buy. Morons are paying $300 to borrow the thing.


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## talbain (Jul 31, 2002)

it's funny this thread pops up as i was just thinking about this very topic. here i am patiently waiting for 6.3 (still don't have it yet), and directv will soon be adding the rest of my regional sports nets (in addition to sny and yes) via mpeg 4 within the next couple of weeks. i'll get the 6.3 update just in time for me to box up my hd tivo and put it in the closet in favor of the hr20...

thanks directv...


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Mark Lopez said:


> I agree. But many of the Tivo zealots here seem to think they are DirecTV's only customers.


Unfortunately being a "TiVo zealot" is only part of the picture. DirecTV's product simply isn't compelling enough these days to make a second rate DVR tolerable.


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## JoeSchueller (Jun 16, 2004)

Mark's point, however, is that the HR20 may not be inferior or "second rate" to many consumers. Many UTV fans or people who have enjoyed Myth actually find the HR20's UI design to be superior. It is strictly a matter of opinion, and unfortunately for TiVo fanboys (fanatics, zealots, lemmings, etc.), D* doesn't agree with them. The cost of this decision is either living with the HR20 or shelling out $800 (+ CC rental fee, + TiVo svc. fee) for the S3.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Arcady said:


> No, it isn't a fact.
> 
> You can't sell something that people can't buy. Morons are paying $300 to borrow the thing.


Same for the HR10 since March 1st.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

bonscott87 said:


> Same for the HR10 since March 1st.


Why so strong a defense for the HR20 vs the HR10? I don't get it ...do you work for D*?


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## Brewer4 (May 6, 2004)

HR20 is NOT an inferior unit. I love my HD Tivo's but my HR20 is just as good and better in certain categories. If you get one that works, its worth a look. Its like driving on the other side of the road. Different, hard to get used to at first if you've driven exclusively on the right side (Tivo side). But once you get the handle of it, it has the same objective and is actually a joy to use. I really like my HR20.


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## bbodin (Jan 21, 2004)

Brewer4 said:


> HR20 is NOT an inferior unit. I love my HD Tivo's but my HR20 is just as good and better in certain categories. If you get one that works, its worth a look. Its like driving on the other side of the road. Different, hard to get used to at first if you've driven exclusively on the right side (Tivo side). But once you get the handle of it, it has the same objective and is actually a joy to use. I really like my HR20.


it certainly is to me. I don't own a HR20, but have a R15 in my daughters room and it has the same interface.

The lack of ability to flip between tuners, having to hit the menu button twice to get to the menu (imagine that), and the general awkwardess of the controls and TWC-style color code/tabs is certainly inferior in my eyes.


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## alexandrepsf (Oct 25, 2005)

Having spent lots of money on HR10 there is no way I soend money on HR20 until they give us more (and interesting) HD channels for HR20.
AND, HR10 UI and usability is (in my opinion) better than D* home made DVR.

It is so funny, that for such a longtime we were ALL asking for an update for the Tivo box, and now there is threads regarding WHY such upgrade!!!!! 

People who like their HR10 are happy to have the upgrade, that is why there is this upgrade.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Sir_whinealot said:


> Why so strong a defense for the HR20 vs the HR10? I don't get it ...do you work for D*?


No, just trying to get through the FUD of many Tivo'ites who think that any DVR that doesn't have Tivo is a piece of crap. That just isn't the case. The HR20 is a very nice box. 
Is it perfect? No. 
Do some people have issues with it? Sure.

But it's a very solid box. One look at this forum you see post after post after post of problems with the HR10 and one would think it's a piece of junk but it all get's ignored by the Tivo coolaid. Brand new HR20 on the block, only has been released for a month and a half and there are posts of problems at dbstalk about it and it's lynched by the same people as being crap and see, we told you so D*, shoulda stuck with Tivo.

Bunk.


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## JoeSchueller (Jun 16, 2004)

FUD indeed. Well said. Until you've lived with both, I can't see how you can label the HR20 as either inferior or an upgrade.


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## bwaldron (Mar 16, 2003)

Sure, some folks go over the top a bit (both pro and anti HR10/HR20).

For me, it's not a "religious" issue. There's a lot to like about the Tivo interface, though I actually preferred ReplayTV and only switched for the advantages of integration.

I'm more than willing to give the new HR20 a try once OTA is available, though the current lack of dual buffers is problematic. For me, the user interface is important, but reliability comes first. Tivo has proven itself in that regard; hopefully the HR20 will as well.


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

So if you love the HDTivo and want to stay with Directv what will we have to do in the future(next year?, 2 years from now?)
Six years ago I was reading about how everything would be in HD by 2006. What's the projection now? 2008?


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

Well, I'm not one to split hairs but.... isn't that to be expected on a _TiVo_ forum? 

I mean, I read the TiVo bad-mouthing over at DBS but I don't feel like I need to preach in its' defense over there ...I don't see the point. :shrug:

Personally ...I'll use whatever works best, and for me it's currently the HR10. If the bugs in the HR20 are all worked out and series link works consistantly, and dual buffers are implemented along w/the OTA ...well, maybe then it's time to talk it up.

Choice is good, but I can wait.

Until that time, what I have now never misses a recording and has served me well.



bonscott87 said:


> No, just trying to get through the FUD of many Tivo'ites who think that any DVR that doesn't have Tivo is a piece of crap. That just isn't the case. The HR20 is a very nice box.
> Is it perfect? No.
> Do some people have issues with it? Sure.
> 
> ...


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## JoeSchueller (Jun 16, 2004)

There's no mandate for anything to go HD, just a mandate to repurpose the current signal spectrum dedicated to analog TV broadcast today. Moving to digital broadcast for OTA TV frees up a huge frequency range which the gov't can auction off in much smaller chunks at huge profits. It has nothing to do w/ PQ.


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## mcdougll (Jan 27, 2003)

jimmymiko said:


> Rules are only made to be broken!
> 
> The real question is why the 6.3 upgrade on HR10, I thought that was a Tivo based system?


Umm, the HR10-250 IS a TiVo-based system. The 6.3 software upgrade is TiVo-based software.

What did you think it was?


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Cudahy said:


> So if you love the HDTivo and want to stay with Directv what will we have to do in the future(next year?, 2 years from now?)
> Six years ago I was reading about how everything would be in HD by 2006. What's the projection now? 2008?


There has been a plan for a couple years now: All new HD released by DirecTV will be in MPEG4. Only the H20 and now the HR20 DVR can decode MPEG4. The HR10 (HDTivo) cannot (and can't be upgraded to do so).

In addition DirecTV is launching 2 new sats next year to be used for national HD. All current HD channels will be converted to MPEG4 afterwords, perhaps mid 2008 at the latest they will be done, perhaps sooner if all goes well with the launches.

Once that happens then the HDTivo will no longer be able to record HD from the sats, only HD from OTA (as well as the standard def stuff).

So at some point within 2 years if you want to stay with DirecTV and want to get HD from them you will need to get a receiver that does MPEG4.


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## DDayDawg (Jul 13, 2004)

nrc said:


> If DirecTV considered a "no support" scenario an option then why renew the contract at all? Do you suppose that DTV just enjoys sharing a portion of the DVR revenue with TiVo?
> 
> No, it would be foolish for DirecTV to put themselves and in a situation where a bug uncovered by a change in the datastream could shutdown thousands of subscribers with no recourse except to replace their receiver.


I'm not going to enter the fray too much on this general topic but I did want to point out the flaw in these "why renew" arguments. If you look at what was happening at the time of the renewal it was obvious why. TiVo is starting to activly defend their many patents on the DVR technology. Most, if not all DVRs, violate some part of their patents. Many people who made DVRs were sitting on the sidlines waiting to see how the first court challenge went. So, when Dish Network almost got their entire DVR complement shut down (if not for a timely injunction) it scared the hell out of alot of people.

So, why did DirecTV renew their contract with TiVo? Simple, to prevent being the next head on the lawsuit chopping block. DirecTV had said publicly that they were ending the relationship with TiVo. I believe it was fully their intention to end the relationship. And I am also sure that TiVo let them know exactly what was going to happen if they did end the relationship.

Oh, and I completely agree with others who said that the 6.3 upgrade is a marketing ploy to prevent customers from jumping to the Series 3. It worked on me, without 6.3 in the pipeline I was definitely switching.


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## bbodin (Jan 21, 2004)

bonscott87 said:


> There has been a plan for a couple years now: All new HD released by DirecTV will be in MPEG4. Only the H20 and now the HR20 DVR can decode MPEG4. The HR10 (HDTivo) cannot (and can't be upgraded to do so).


As you've said, this has been the plan for a few years now, but look no furthur than ST as proof that they aren't willing to push all new HD over to MPEG4 just yet. Wouldn't it be easier for them to broadcast ALL NFL games in HD using MPEG4, rather than giving us a subset of games on MPEG2 and only doing that by shutting down TNT-HD and PPV for half the day? They chose to keep ST on MPEG2 because there would be a minor uproar if they made the switch right now. I'm not even sure they'll do it next year either. If I had to guess, I'd say by 2008, ST will be in MPEG4.

I definitely agree with your premise, that new National HD will go onto MPEG4 and all HD-Locals will, obviously. Eventually all HD will go over as well. I don't expect the latter to happen until 2008 personally (based on sat problems, rollouts, upgrades, etc.) and by then I will have gotten plenty of use out of my current HD tivo (and at that point, it becomes an SD Tivo/OTA HD tivo since I don't believe they'll ever move SD over to MPEG4...so even then, it's still not a useless device)


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

bbodin said:


> As you've said, this has been the plan for a few years now, but look no furthur than ST as proof that they aren't willing to push all new HD over to MPEG4 just yet. Wouldn't it be easier for them to broadcast ALL NFL games in HD using MPEG4, rather than giving us a subset of games on MPEG2 and only doing that by shutting down TNT-HD and PPV for half the day? They chose to keep ST on MPEG2 because there would be a minor uproar if they made the switch right now. I'm not even sure they'll do it next year either. If I had to guess, I'd say by 2008, ST will be in MPEG4.


Sure they would, but they can't until the 2 new sats go up. The Spaceway's that are there now are spotbeam only sats. So they can't move ST over to MPEG4 just yet. Plus the fact the HR20 just now came out. But you can bet that ST in HD will be in MPEG4 next year as the last ditch attempt to get people to switch to MPEG4 on their own.

We know the plans, just how fast they get done is the unknown.


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## jimmymiko (Mar 29, 2003)

mcdougll said:


> Umm, the HR10-250 IS a TiVo-based system. The 6.3 software upgrade is TiVo-based software.
> 
> What did you think it was?


Sarcasm.


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## finaldiet (May 10, 2004)

Sir_whinealot said:


> Well, I'm not one to split hairs but.... isn't that to be expected on a _TiVo_ forum?
> 
> I mean, I read the TiVo bad-mouthing over at DBS but I don't feel like I need to preach in its' defense over there ...I don't see the point. :shrug:
> 
> ...


Off subject but I noticed you have an SXRD. I was wondering how you like it? I'm considering the 50" SXRD. It looked great!!!


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