# Need (simple) help with WinMFS



## The Great Inert (Jun 21, 2012)

The hard drive in my S2 recently started the GSOD-reboot loop. As it is a 1TB with a lot of recordings I want to keep, I intend (if I can) to do a backup onto a new 1TB. 

Earlier today I took the drive out of the Tivo, connected it to my PC, and ran WinMFS just to test if the HD controller was working. (I ran SMART on the drive a few days ago and it reported back as fine.) An interesting thing happened with WinMFS: although the program recognized the drive as being connected, MFSInfo reported that it was "Not a TIVO drive". When I ran "View Drive Information," the lines where the Tivo Software and Model Numbers should be were blank. This leads me to think that somehow the TIVO software has become corrupted, and that I would probably need to restore the software before I could do a clone of the dying drive to the new drive.

So here are my questions: I have a virgin 6.2 kernel I DL'd from here. Can I copy this kernel (using WinMFS>Tools>Restore Tivo Drive) to "restore" the OS on the dying drive? If I try this, will I inadvertently wipe my recordings? Any help is more appreciated than you know, and thanks for bearing with this longer post.


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

*STOP!* If you could run Kick Start 54 then the boot page is/was fine. There is something funky about the PC setup. Download and burn the MFSTools boot CD. Unplug or remove all Hard Disk drives from the PC. Then when you get the PC to boot to the Linux command line then power off the PC and add the TiVo drive boot to the command prompt and type in cat /proc/partitions (all lower case) report back the information returned.

Now some information about the PC is needed what HD controller are you using.


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## The Great Inert (Jun 21, 2012)

HomeUser,

Many, many thanks for your replies. Here is the information I got after running cat /proc/partitions:


Major	Minor	#Blocks	Name

8	0	976762584	sda
8	1	31 sda1
8	2	0 sda2
8	3	4096 sda3
8	4	131072	sda4
8	5	0 sda5
8	6	4096 sda6
8	7	131072	sda7
8	8	131072	sda8
8	9	131072	sda9
8	10	262144	sda10
8	11	17074729	sda11
8	12	262144	sda12
8	13	22080630	sda13
8	14	1024 sda14
8	15	936540160	sda15

I also ran MFSInfo and got this:


TYPE	NAME	LENGTH BASE SIZE

Apple_Partition_Map	Apple	63	1	
Image	Bootstrap 1	1	78310782	
Image	Kernel 1	8192	78310783	4 MB
EXT 2	Root 1	262144	78318975	128 MB
Image	Bootstrap 2	1	78581119	
Image	Kernel 2	8192	78581120	4 MB
EXT 2	Root 2	262144	78589312	128 MB
Swap	Linux Swap	262144	78851456	128 MB
EXT 2	/var	262144	79113600	128 MB
MFS	MFS App Region	524288	79375744	256 MB
MFS	MFS Media Reg	34149458	44161324	16.3 GB
MFS	MFSAppRegion2	524288	79900032	256 MB
MFS	MFSMedReg2	44161260	64	21.1 GB
MFS	MFSAppbyWinMFS	2048	80424320	1 MB
MFS	MFSExpandbyWinMFS	1873080320	80426368	893.2 GB

Again, your help is more appreciated than you know!


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

Whew, First glance the partition structure still looks valid.

Do you have another hard drive 1TB or larger that you can binary copy this drive to? It would be best to work with a copy. Read about using dd_rescue.

For now download the drives manufactures "run from CD" diagnostics. What brand and model is the drive? you should be able to find the diagnostics on the drive manufactures web page search for the model.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Hey, Inert, what's the model number of the TiVo?


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## The Great Inert (Jun 21, 2012)

Thank you for your reply, Unitron. My S2 is a TCD240040, obviously upgraded to a 1 TB drive. 

HomeUser: I ran WD's diagnostic as you suggested, and it wouldn't even let me get past the first SMART test. To paraphrase the program results, "One or more current values are below threshold". I am fairly certain the PCB is either totally or partially fried; there are scorch marks on one of the chips. (The drive is a WD10EADS.) 

As a hail-Mary, I'm trying to do a clone now through WinMFS. It's currently attempting to copy Partition 7... waiting to see what happens next...


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

The Great Inert said:


> Thank you for your reply, Unitron. My S2 is a TCD240040, obviously upgraded to a 1 TB drive.
> 
> HomeUser: I ran WD's diagnostic as you suggested, and it wouldn't even let me get past the first SMART test. To paraphrase the program results, "One or more current values are below threshold". I am fairly certain the PCB is either totally or partially fried; there are scorch marks on one of the chips. (The drive is a WD10EADS.)
> 
> As a hail-Mary, I'm trying to do a clone now through WinMFS. It's currently attempting to copy Partition 7... waiting to see what happens next...


If you have another 1TB or larger drive you can just do a byte for byte copy if necessary, with

dd_rescue

and adjust some of its parameters to increase your chances of success if WinMFS fails you.


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## The Great Inert (Jun 21, 2012)

Unitron,

Do I need to use a particular Linux distribution to run dd_rescue, and/or is it already included in MFStools?

Many thanks for your input!


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

The Great Inert said:


> Unitron,
> 
> Do I need to use a particular Linux distribution to run dd_rescue, and/or is it already included in MFStools?
> 
> Many thanks for your input!


MFS Tools is out of date.

The most (and likely last) replacement for it, compatible with backups it made, is the MFS Live cd, v1.4

Even if you don't have a TiVo you should burn yourself a copy of that.

available at mfslive.org and maybe elsewhere if they have a problem

Was WinMFS less than successful?


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

The Great Inert said:


> Thank you for your reply, Unitron. My S2 is a TCD240040, obviously upgraded to a 1 TB drive.
> 
> HomeUser: I ran WD's diagnostic as you suggested, and it wouldn't even let me get past the first SMART test. To paraphrase the program results, "One or more current values are below threshold". I am fairly certain the PCB is either totally or partially fried; there are scorch marks on one of the chips. (The drive is a WD10EADS.)
> 
> As a hail-Mary, I'm trying to do a clone now through WinMFS. It's currently attempting to copy Partition 7... waiting to see what happens next...


 If you have to restart the copy and there is space available on the new drive you might increase the swap partition to 1024 or at least 512 the extra space is wasted because the Series 2 TiVo drives can only be expanded once. Do it using the MFSLive boot CD on the MFSLive web site there is an Interactive Command Generator to help you with the command.

Burnt chip on the TiVo MB or the Hard Drive? If the TiVo see this thread WARNING: Please read before upgrading Series2 TiVo


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

The Great Inert said:


> Thank you for your reply, Unitron. My S2 is a TCD240040, obviously upgraded to a 1 TB drive.
> 
> HomeUser: I ran WD's diagnostic as you suggested, and it wouldn't even let me get past the first SMART test. To paraphrase the program results, "One or more current values are below threshold". I am fairly certain the PCB is either totally or partially fried; there are scorch marks on one of the chips. (The drive is a WD10EADS.)
> 
> As a hail-Mary, I'm trying to do a clone now through WinMFS. It's currently attempting to copy Partition 7... waiting to see what happens next...


Any chance that 10EADS is still under warranty?

It should have had a 3 year one.


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## The Great Inert (Jun 21, 2012)

As I sit here and wait for dd_rescue to run, I want to thank both of you again for your help. If I could buy you both a drink of your choice I would.

Unitron: I became impatient with WinMFS and stopped the clone. In doing so, an interesting thing happened. When I checked the partitions on the new drive in MFSlive, it showed that 10 of the 15 partitions from the failing drive actually transferred to the new drive. (I probably should have been more patient, since it seems the clone was close to finishing.) So there's some hope that the clone I'm doing right now in dd_rescue will, when it eventually finishes, work.

HomeUser: Fortunately the Tivo MB is fine. The burnt chip was on the PCB of the drive. Over the last few hours I've learned that the burnt chip problem is a common one on the WD drive I have (WD10EADS.) 

Of course, I have another (probably terribly obvious) question. How will I know when dd_rescue is finished? Right now all I'm getting are screens after screens of data (I'm running in text mode) and no sense at all of how far along the program is. (If it matters, I'm transferring from a 1TB to a 1TB and dd_rescue has been running for a little over two hours now.) Will the program give me a clear signal that it's finished, or will it simply "freeze" (as MFSInfo did) when it finishes?


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

The Great Inert said:


> As I sit here and wait for dd_rescue to run, I want to thank both of you again for your help. If I could buy you both a drink of your choice I would.
> 
> Unitron: I became impatient with WinMFS and stopped the clone. In doing so, an interesting thing happened. When I checked the partitions on the new drive in MFSlive, it showed that 10 of the 15 partitions from the failing drive actually transferred to the new drive. (I probably should have been more patient, since it seems the clone was close to finishing.) So there's some hope that the clone I'm doing right now in dd_rescue will, when it eventually finishes, work.
> 
> ...


I'm assuming you're running

dd_rescue

off of the MFS Live cd

I hope I remembered to tell you to run

dd_rescue -v

(that's the verbose switch, shows a constant stream of text about what it's doing)

It'll probably end with an EOF (end of file) message, which means it reached the end of the source drive, which, to it, is a file (in Unix-ish stuff, everything's a file).

If the screen goes blank, tap the space bar.

When it finishes

pdisk -l

(that's a lower case L)

should show you the partition maps for both drives.

It might choke on the cd drive, and it won't show anything partition-wise for a DOS/Windows-type drive.

Let's say your source drive is /dev/sda and the target is /dev/sdb

pdisk -l /dev/sdb

will show you just the partition map for the target drive

Then

mfsinfo /dev/sdb

should show if it's recognized as a TiVo drive.

reboot

will cause the computer to reboot

poweroff

will cause it to properly shut down


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

It will return to the command prompt when done. Depending on the speed of your PC and drives it will probably take 12 or more hours.


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## The Great Inert (Jun 21, 2012)

unitron said:


> Any chance that 10EADS is still under warranty?
> 
> It should have had a 3 year one.


Unitron: I called WD and it is still under warranty... BUT (and you could probably just feel that this was coming,) WD will not simply replace the PCB on the drive and ship it back. They will only send a "new" drive. Of course, if I wanted to use one of their partner DR companies and spend $350 to get my drive back, I'm welcome to do that (at least that's what the rep on the phone said.)

HomeUser: I hope (sincerely) that your 12 hour estimate is correct, because dd_rescue has been running for seven and a half hours now...


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

The Great Inert said:


> Unitron: I called WD and it is still under warranty... BUT (and you could probably just feel that this was coming,) WD will not simply replace the PCB on the drive and ship it back. They will only send a "new" drive. Of course, if I wanted to use one of their partner DR companies and spend $350 to get my drive back, I'm welcome to do that (at least that's what the rep on the phone said.)
> 
> HomeUser: I hope (sincerely) that your 12 hour estimate is correct, because dd_rescue has been running for seven and a half hours now...


Yeah, but once you get your data off onto another drive (and I don't think the data recovery companies know how to recover TiVo stuff anyway, just Windows or Mac files), you don't need that drive anymore, and WD owes you a 1TB drive (which you can slap into a PC running Desktop and store shows on).


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

The last time I copied drives using dd_rescue. I recall I started the transfer sometime in the evening around 9PM I let it run over-nite was not finished when I went to work in the morning so the copy finished somewhere between 8AM and 6PM (11 - 21 hours) and that was a 750G IDE the time will be affected by the number of re-reads needed.


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## The Great Inert (Jun 21, 2012)

unitron said:


> Yeah, but once you get your data off onto another drive (and I don't think the data recovery companies know how to recover TiVo stuff anyway, just Windows or Mac files), you don't need that drive anymore, and WD owes you a 1TB drive (which you can slap into a PC running Desktop and store shows on).


Unitron: I actually didn't think of that. Thank you!


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## The Great Inert (Jun 21, 2012)

HomeUser: As I write this, dd_rescue has entered it's twentieth  hour of running. What's interesting is that it does not seem to be copying anything from drive to drive--all I've gotten is screen after screen of bad sector information. I'm hoping to see something that indicates that files are being copied soon...

Actually, that leads to a good question. How does the program indicate that it's copying files?


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

dd_rescue does not copy files the program copies binary sectors making a bit by bit image of the original drive (containing the files). Most copy programs will stop copying at the first error dd_rescue tries several times then moves on to the next sector.

If your seeing bad sector information then the program is still running usually the bad sectors are grouped together so you will see a lot of the errors all at once hopefully the errors will stop and the copy will continue. Because the re-reads take longer the time to copy will also. I would let the copy run for at least another 12 hrs depending on how much you want the data. 

When the program is done you will see the MFSLive command prompt again and if I recall a message about the size of data transferred.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

The Great Inert said:


> HomeUser: As I write this, dd_rescue has entered it's twentieth  hour of running. What's interesting is that it does not seem to be copying anything from drive to drive--all I've gotten is screen after screen of bad sector information. I'm hoping to see something that indicates that files are being copied soon...
> 
> Actually, that leads to a good question. How does the program indicate that it's copying files?


"I'm hoping to see something that indicates that files are being copied soon..."

You won't exactly, even if it is, but I think you need to type

CTRL+C

to interupt it and get it to stop. We'll take a different approach.

"How does the program indicate that it's copying files?"

Actually it doesn't.

It's not set up to copy files, it copies the first x number of bytes and writes them to the corresponding location on the target drive.

Then it does it again, with the next x number of bytes.

If those bytes are a file, or part of one, eventually you have files copied.

If those bytes are a bunch of zeros, then it copies and writes zeros.

(which is why one should be very careful about using /dev/zero with

dd

or any of its derivitives)

If they're goobledygook, then that's what gets read from the source and written to the target.

And if those bytes are stuff like partition boundaries and boot records, it copies them as well, which is what lets it "Xerox" drives regardless of operating system or file format.

To it, the entire drive is a file, although, if desired, you can set it to only read part of that file--any part you can provide a starting address and length for.

find a man page for

dd_rescue

and learn how to set it to copy only 512 bytes at a time, with a fallback to 1 byte.

Assuming both drives have the same LBA number, also learn how to make the program work in reverse,i.e., start at the end of the drives and work towards the front.

Then wrap paper towel around the bad drive after it's cooled, and stick it in the freezer overnight.

The paper towel will let you pick it up the next day without losing skin and will keep humidity from condensing on it.

You'll need to slip the towel off of it before applying electricity, because at that point you don't want insulation.

You might even turn the drive upside down to place the flat top on something that can be a heatsink, like block of metal or marble.

Then you try to run

dd_rescue

in reverse, but only if the LBA numbers match, or things won't be in the right place,

and you run it taking very small nips at the source.

If it doesn't get it the first time it goes back and tries again.

Doing so in smaller samples increases the chance of getting a good read.

Having had to have done this once, I can assure you it will take forever, 24 to 48 hours at that low speed.

But having done it once successfully, I can recommend it if the stuff on there needs saving badly enough.

The nice thing about working backwards is that it'll probably get a bunch of sectors copied before it has to slow down and retry a lot.

You should probably find a way to help keep the temperature of the source drive down throughout the procedure, like a fan blowing straight on it, maybe put a bowl of ice behind the fan for it to pull cool air from and change out the bowl when it melts (and do not let it spill near all of that exposed electronic and electrical gear)

If the backwards copy gets a lot of the drive copied, we might be able to cheat to get the rest, but that's down the road and complicated.


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## The Great Inert (Jun 21, 2012)

Unitron and HomeUser, this is outstanding information. I can't say thanks enough.

I've decided to approach this using both strategies. Right now, I'm an hour and a half away from the 24 hour mark; I'll let the program run for the next 12 to see where it goes. If the program is still processing bad sectors, I'll stop it there completely, get a decent night's sleep, and pick it up again using the 512/1 byte, run-in-reverse option. 

Unitron: I actually have had a fan blowing on both drives since this all started, and even after 24 hours they're both surprisingly cool to the touch. I guess the WD Green series (which I've always thought was a cheap way for WD to force consumers to use a slower rpm drive) do have one strong point.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

The Great Inert said:


> Unitron and HomeUser, this is outstanding information. I can't say thanks enough.
> 
> I've decided to approach this using both strategies. Right now, I'm an hour and a half away from the 24 hour mark; I'll let the program run for the next 12 to see where it goes. If the program is still processing bad sectors, I'll stop it there completely, get a decent night's sleep, and pick it up again using the 512/1 byte, run-in-reverse option.
> 
> Unitron: I actually have had a fan blowing on both drives since this all started, and even after 24 hours they're both surprisingly cool to the touch. I guess the WD Green series (which I've always thought was a cheap way for WD to force consumers to use a slower rpm drive) do have one strong point.


5200, or 5600, or 5800 PRM is fast enough for a TiVo drive, so anything faster just generates unneccessary heat.


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## The Great Inert (Jun 21, 2012)

dd_rescue has just entered hour 30.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

The Great Inert said:


> dd_rescue has just entered hour 30.


If it's still reading bad sectors,

CTRL+C

to interrupt, then

poweroff

to shut down so it can cool enough for the freezer.

If it's actually showing increasing numbers of bytes read and written, let it finish.


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## The Great Inert (Jun 21, 2012)

Unitron, I'm into hour 43 and it's still reading bad sectors. What should I be looking for to tell if bytes are being read and written?


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

Note the sector values 
You could abort the process as untron suggested then copy the sectors in reverse order starting at the end
some math will be required to compute the offset if the drives are not exactly the same.

http://www.gnu.org/software/ddrescue/manual/ddrescue_manual.html


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

HomeUser said:


> Note the sector values
> You could abort the process as untron suggested then copy the sectors in reverse order starting at the end
> some math will be required to compute the offset if the drives are not exactly the same.
> 
> http://www.gnu.org/software/ddrescue/manual/ddrescue_manual.html


What he said.

Sorry, I've been catching up on a day or 3 of sleep.


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## The Great Inert (Jun 21, 2012)

I want to thank you both again for all of your help these last few days. I truly appreciate all of your input more than you can imagine.

An update: at hour 45 and a half, I simply stopped dd_rescue altogether. The only sector information I noticed had changed in nearly two days was the number of bad sectors on the old drive. Upon stopping the program, I ran pdisk -l /dev/sdb to see if anything had transferred, and the program reported that all 15 partitions had been moved. (/dev/sda and /dev/sdb reported the same number of partitions, but I didn't copy the data figures to determine if the partitions on sdb were mathematically identical to those on sda.) Thinking that the new drive had to have been at least partially cloned, I put it in the Tivo, started it up, and sure enough--Welcome, Powering Up--Almost There--GSOD--reboot. Again and again and again.

At this point, after three days of trying to get the old drive back, I need (for sanity's sake) to stop trying. I'm going to wait until each of the drives, and the computer I was using to do the recovery, cool down...about three or four days...before I try again. The next attempt is the deal-breaker: if I can't get the information off the dying 1TB, and can't get the new 1TB to work in the Tivo, I'm simply going to clone the image of my 500GB drive (my first Tivo upgrade) to the new 1TB and admit temporary defeat. An unbelievable amount of information, including 76 episodes of a television series that will probably NEVER see the light of day on DVD because of Dick Wolf's licensing nonsense, will be lost, but I guess it serves me right for not actually backing up an image of the drive while it was working.

After three days, I'm entitled to a rant I think you'll both appreciate. One thing that sucks about this situation is that I'm actually adept with hardware and could EASILY (really, really EASILY) replace the PCB on the drive...IF the PCB for my drive didn't cost $150 dollars. I swear to God, hard drive manufacturers have their consumers by the round, dangling objects. I know there's nothing mechanically wrong with the drive besides its age. If i could replace the board it would work again, even if I only ran it for the few hours it would take to clone the drive via WinMFS--but WD "won't replace parts." After all, why replace parts when you can just force people to buy new drives, right? Locking the market in this way lets third-party distributors charge a premium for replacement PCBs. Of course, in three years' time, the PCB for my drive will probably cost about 40 bucks...but then that means waiting three years to clone the drive. Which sucks. Period. 

(Actually, come to think of it... my electric bill is going to suck next month, too.) 

For now, I need to sleep, but I really want to thank you both again for all of the help. I'll be back at the end of the week if you're both still gracious enough to indulge me. As I said, if I could buy you both a drink of your choice I would.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

The Great Inert said:


> I want to thank you both again for all of your help these last few days. I truly appreciate all of your input more than you can imagine.
> 
> An update: at hour 45 and a half, I simply stopped dd_rescue altogether. The only sector information I noticed had changed in nearly two days was the number of bad sectors on the drive. Upon stopping the program, I ran pdisk -l /dev/sdb to see if anything had transferred, and the program reported that all 15 partitions had been moved. Thinking that the drive had to have been at least partially restored, I put it in the Tivo, started it up, and sure enough--Welcome, Powering Up--Almost There--GSOD--reboot. Again and again and again.
> 
> ...


What

pdisk

showed you was that the partition map had been copied.

That doesn't mean that the actual partitions had been.

Did you upgrade from the 40GB to the 500 and then from the 500 to the 1TB?

To what season of what show do you refer?


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## The Great Inert (Jun 21, 2012)

Unitron, happy to see you on!

I indeed went from a 40GB to a 500GB to a 1TB. I still have the 40 and the 500, which both still work.

About a hundred million years ago (okay, 20 years ago,) Dick Wolf produced a series called "New York Undercover" that was shot almost entirely in the Lower East Side, where I was born and raised. The show itself wasn't the greatest (some of the plots laid it on a bit thick and there was a subtle but nasty streak of reverse-racism to most of the show) but it serves, for me at least, as a reminder of what my neighborhood used to be like before gentrification, NYU, and Mike "Mayor Dips**t" Bloomberg turned it into a 24 hour dorm room. Alas, it's probably lost... unless I have better fortunes this weekend...


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## bshrock (Jan 6, 2012)

The Great Inert said:


> One thing that sucks about this situation is that I'm actually adept with hardware and could EASILY (really, really EASILY) replace the PCB on the drive...IF the PCB for my drive didn't cost $150 dollars. I swear to God, hard drive manufacturers have their consumers by the round, dangling objects. I know there's nothing mechanically wrong with the drive besides its age. If i could replace the board it would work again, even if I only ran it for the few hours it would take to clone the drive via WinMFS--but WD "won't replace parts." After all, why replace parts when you can just force people to buy new drives, right? Locking the market in this way lets third-party distributors charge a premium for replacement PCBs. Of course, in three years' time, the PCB for my drive will probably cost about 40 bucks...but then that means waiting three years to clone the drive. Which sucks. Period.


Not that I am suggesting anything... Can you get an advance replacement for the drive? Western Digital used to put a hold on your credit card and send out the replacement drive so you could copy off your data.


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## bshrock (Jan 6, 2012)

HomeUser said:


> Note the sector values
> You could abort the process as untron suggested then copy the sectors in reverse order starting at the end
> some math will be required to compute the offset if the drives are not exactly the same.
> 
> http://www.gnu.org/software/ddrescue/manual/ddrescue_manual.html


What math? Just start at the end address of the source drive.


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## The Great Inert (Jun 21, 2012)

Welcome to the discussion, bshock. According to the ever-helpful people at WD, the company "doesn't replace parts". Even if I could get them to ship a replacement, the PCB of the replacement drive would have to be a 98-99% match to the PCB of the damaged drive before any data extraction could occur. As the dying drive is now 3 years old, the chance of that happening is rather slim...


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## bshrock (Jan 6, 2012)

Probably even if the PCB was a 100% match the error map would be different.

You might try breaking the copy in small chunks letting the drive cool in-between.

copy blocks 00 through 1000 let the drive cool then copy blocks 1000 through 2000 etc.

Note: 1000 is probably way to small a value just easier for the example adjust it to just below area where the first errors are returned.

I have used the program DFSEE to binary copy a drive in just that way.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

bshrock said:


> Probably even if the PCB was a 100% match the error map would be different.
> 
> You might try breaking the copy in small chunks letting the drive cool in-between.
> 
> ...


dd_rescue

can do that, you just have to give it the right parameters.

For that matter

dd

can do it as well, if you set up the options correctly.


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## bshrock (Jan 6, 2012)

unitron said:


> dd_rescue
> 
> can do that, you just have to give it the right parameters.
> 
> ...


 True just not the only method. I have not used dd_rescue enough to be comfortable with the options. DFSee can be run from a command prompt or by using a menu. It was what I used to recover the failed 250 Gig in my old Series2.


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