# Moca Issue with 2 main tivos and multiple minis



## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

I'm hoping someone has some ideas for how I can fix what started slowly (in two rooms) but is now a whole house issue.

I have two main Tivos, a Romio Pro (downstairs) and a Bolt (upstairs). I also have several minis upstairs for other rooms. 

The units were all connected using Moca using the Tivo Bridge, although the router does also have Moca. Up until a few weeks ago, most of the units spoke to each other. Now, none of them are speaking to each other and none of the upstairs units (Bolt and minis) have internet access or can use the tuners from the main devices.

The Romio pro sometimes connects to the Tivo Service; the Bolt sometimes says it has an IP address but cannot connect and cannot see the Romio Pro. 

I've been on the phone with Cox and with Tivo and with the AV people that did my install and Tivo is convinced the problem is in the wires upstairs since the Romio Pro can connect (although it also sometimes drops).

I have a Moca filter on the coax connection into the house.

i've disconnected the bridge and am trying Moca through the Cox router, but I've also read that Cox limits moca use so that may be why that doesn't work either.

This is my set up:

Downstairs: RomioPro (tuning adapter on split line; connected to Tivo using USB)
Upstairs:
Bolt (main room) (BAMF Moca splitter in this room providing links to Bolt, Mini 1 and to Attic see below) (tuning adapter on split line; connected to Tivo using USB)
Mini 1 (bathroom)
Mini 2 (off of attic line)
Mini 3 (home office)
Mini 4 (guest room).

I've ordered a few more moca filters and also some 4 way splitters since the downstairs setup has multiple splitters off of the cable line for the cable modem, tuning adapter and tivo.

I'm really not sure what is going on here, but if anyone has some thoughts or what I should be checking, please let me know!

Thanks!


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Can you provide a diagram of your wiring/connections?
If MoCA is 'on' on your Gateway, you ought not have a Bridge at that location, too.

-KP


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Although you've already headed down the alternate config troubleshooting path, one of the first things to try when a working setup goes wonky is a full power reset &#8230; powering everything down for a short bit, then bringing devices back online one-at-a-time, evaluating connectivity as you go.

For a bit more re: the full power reset - distinct from rebooting or just cycling power on each individual device - see this post:



krkaufman said:


> To do a full power reset, power down all your gear (modem, router, network switches, MoCA adapters, TiVo devices), and leave it all off for a minute or three; and then power the devices back on, in the order above, allowing each device to come online before proceeding to the next.


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## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

1. The splitters outside are from the cable company and are 1002 MHZ. The splitters inside are a combination of that splitter and BAMF MOCA 5-2300MHZ splitters. I've ordered more BAMF splitters to replace everything.
2. The diagram is a guesstimate as I assume that the downstairs wire is on one splitter and the upstairs wire is on the other, but there's no way for me to know for sure.
3. I used to have a Tivo Bridge downstairs. I disconnected it two days ago after talking to Tivo since my modem/router has Moca capability. I read that Cox turns off the Moca on their routers (and I've noticed it turning off) so I'm going to try to install the bridge tonight. I've also ordered a replacement bridge in case the one I have has gone bad.
4. The system has a bunch of splitters coming off of other splitters. For example, the two splitters in the den could be replaced by one four port splitter (instead of having two two port splitters). Is there a good reason for the way it is wired? I didn't do any of the wiring--the AV company I hired did the inside wiring and the cable company has the outside splitters. (The AV company doesn't do Moca and I provided the bridge and filter).
5. Should I add an additional filter at each tuning adapter and also at the cable modem input?

When the master closet was added a few months ago, it worked but caused the Romio and Bolt to stop talking to each other. Then, over the last month or so, as the AV guys changed out splitters from the 1002 MHZ splitters to the BAMF splitters, the minis stopped talking to the Romio but continued talking to the Bolt. Then the Room 2 mini stopped receiving signal. Now all of the units have stopped receiving internet signal (the Romio and Bolt do have television signal but cannot connect to the internet over coax).


krkaufman said:


> Although you've already headed down the alternate config troubleshooting path, one of the first things to try when a working setup goes wonky is a full power reset &#8230; powering everything down for a short bit, then bringing devices back online one-at-a-time, evaluating connectivity as you go.
> 
> For a bit more re: the full power reset - distinct from rebooting or just cycling power on each individual device - see this post:
> 
> ​


Tried that but the only unit that connected was the one downstairs. The upstairs Bolt and the minis couldn't connect over Moca. The upstairs Bolt could connect through wifi.


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## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

I've drawn out the diagram as I understand it. A couple of points/questions:

1. The splitters outside are from the cable company and are 1002 MHZ. The splitters inside are a combination of that splitter and BAMF MOCA 5-2300MHZ splitters. I've ordered more BAMF splitters to replace everything.

2. The diagram is a guesstimate as I assume that the downstairs wire is on one splitter and the upstairs wire is on the other, but there's no way for me to know for sure.

3. I used to have a Tivo Bridge downstairs. I disconnected it two days ago after talking to Tivo since my modem/router has Moca capability. I read that Cox turns off the Moca on their routers (and I've noticed it turning off) so I'm going to try to install the bridge tonight. I've also ordered a replacement bridge in case the one I have has gone bad.

4. The system has a bunch of splitters coming off of other splitters. For example, the two splitters in the den could be replaced by one four port splitter (instead of having two two port splitters). Is there a good reason for the way it is wired? I didn't do any of the wiring--the AV company I hired did the inside wiring and the cable company has the outside splitters. (The AV company doesn't do Moca and I provided the bridge and filter).

5. Should I add an additional filter at each tuning adapter and also at the cable modem input?


When the master closet was added a few months ago, it worked but caused the Romio and Bolt to stop talking to each other. Then, over the last month or so, as the AV guys changed out splitters from the 1002 MHZ splitters to the BAMF splitters, the minis stopped talking to the Romio but continued talking to the Bolt. Then the Room 2 mini stopped receiving signal. Now all of the units have stopped receiving internet signal (the Romio and Bolt do have television signal but cannot connect to the internet over coax).


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## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

Also, since the diagram isn't clear:

Room 1: Tivo Mini (worked last week)
Room 2: Tivo Mini (hasn't worked since early August)
Room 3: No connection/not in use
Den: Cable Modem/Router, Wifi Device, Tuning Adapter, Tivo Romio Pro, Ethernet Hub
Master Bedroom: Tivo Bolt+, Tuning Adapter, connection to Master Bathroom Mini Vox, split to attic and over to master closet Mini Vox
Master Closet: Mini Lux

1 Romio Pro
1 Bolt+
3 Mini Vox
1 Mini Lux


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)




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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Wow, that's a lot of splits.

I think you definitely want to get rid of that 3-way splitter with the unused leg at the 'top' of the system.

Is there no way to reduce some of those 3 and 4-way splitters?

What are your MoCA levels like on any of the TiVo Devices.

Can you get logged in to your Router and verify the MoCA Status?

-KP


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## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

I don't know how to check MoCA levels. The Romio Pro and Bolt have occasionally gotten an IP address but not consistently. I have been able to log into the router and yesterday, MoCA was enabled; today it was turned off. I've read that Cox turns MoCa off for internet only customers, but I also get cable though them (but use Tivos instead of the Contour box). I'm thinking I should try to reinstall the Tivo Bridge and see if that helps.

I can reduce the splitters inside the house; I'm not sure if I can replace the ones in at the cable line in because i'm not sure which line is the unused line--none of them are marked. 

I read somewhere that there was an advantage to using multiple splitters in terms of signal degradation compared to just using a single splitter with more ports. Not sure if that is the case, though.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Sure...that's what you need, another split in your Coax Plant.

On your TiVo's, go in to Network Settings and in Diagnostics, there's a MoCA page. Try to note the MAC Address' and the Power Levels. Your Router likely provides some MoCA Diagnostics, as well.

It'd be pretty weird for your Cable Company to be toggling your MoCA Status at random intervals. Call them up and ask them to knock it off?

Take pictures of your splitters. They're not that mysterious.

A Powered MoCA Splitter would probably do a world of good. Like this:










-KP


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## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

The AV company that I use (who doesn't seem to know much about MoCA) tried adding that very powered splitter and said that the network shut down so I sent it back to Amazon.

So the strangest thing happened tonight. I was on the phone with Cox getting passed around from department to department asking why the MoCA would be turned off when I decided to experiment and ignore what Tivo said about not having a hard ethernet connection to the Romio downstairs. I ran an ethernet cable from the back of the Cox Router to the Romio Pro and enable the Romio as a bridge instead of as a client. And now the full system works, except for the home office, where the Mini says that it has an IP address but can't find either of the main units.

The router's page still says nothing is connected via MoCA but the units are working.

Peer Node MAC
TX Power Estimate 0.00
RX Power estimate -40.00

Peer Node MAC
TX Power Estimate 0.00
RX Power estimate -52.00

Peer Node MAC
TX Power Estimate 0.00
RX Power estimate -68.02

Peer Node MAC
TX Power Estimate 0.00
RX Power estimate -52.00

Peer Node MAC
TX Power Estimate 0.00
RX Power estimate -71.05

Now I just have to figure out what is going on in the home office. And hope that this set up works in the morning.

Should I upgrade all of the splitters to the BAMF GHZ splitters? They're on the way from Amazon but I can send them back if I don't need them.

Thanks!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

sts1 said:


> I decided to experiment and ignore what Tivo said about not having a hard ethernet connection to the Romio downstairs


This is dependent, not a hard requirement/restriction.

in your case, you have 3 devices capable of functioning as your main Ethernet/MoCA bridge:

TiVo Bridge
MoCA bridging-capable gateway
MoCA-bridging-capable DVR
&#8230; but with the hard requirement that only one of them should be doing so. Having two active MoCA/Ethernet bridges would create a network loop and crash your network.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

sts1 said:


> Should I upgrade all of the splitters to the BAMF GHZ splitters?


What does the BAMF splitter product page say re: their splitters' compatibility and performance relative to satellite signals?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

sts1 said:


> I read somewhere that there was an advantage to using multiple splitters in terms of signal degradation compared to just using a single splitter with more ports. Not sure if that is the case, though.


Also dependent. A good example is an incoming cable Internet feed, where providers prefer to split the incoming line in two, feeding the modem off one output and all other (TV) outlets off the other, to maximize signal strength to/from the cable modem.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

sts1 said:


> Peer Node MAC
> TX Power Estimate 0.00


This isn't awful, but it could be better.

MoCA gear has power adjustment capability built-in, and TX power can range from +3 (max amplification) to -30 (max reduction). 0 indicates your coax plant isn't optimal, but should still be capable of advertised rates. (Of course, the device not connecting may be a split too far.)


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## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

krkaufman said:


> This is dependent, not a hard requirement/restriction.
> 
> in your case, you have 3 devices capable of functioning as your main Ethernet/MoCA bridge:
> 
> ...


That makes sense. I don't think MoCA was originally active on the Cox Modem. It turned off overnight (again) but the system seems to be up and running house-wide (except for the home office). My guess is that the TiVo bridge (which apparently wasn't needed at all) must have gone bad and that was causing the problem. Once I changed the Romio into a bridge and set the other units as clients, and connected a 10-base-T line directly from the modem (instead of from the Alien or not at all) into the Romio, the system popped up again. And now it isn't dependent on the Cox modem's Moca Settings (or the Tivo Bridge, which just added another split to the system) at all.

Tonight I'm going to try moving the home office Mini to another room and see if it connects there. If it connects, there's definitely something on the line that is causing a problem. If it doesn't connect, I'll move a mini from another room in and see if the problem is the Mini or the wire.


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## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

krkaufman said:


> What does the BAMF splitter product page say re: their splitters' compatibility and performance relative to satellite signals?


This is all I could find:

"Internal Circuit Board For Better Reliability/Durability
5-2300 Mhz (2.3Ghz) Rf Bi-Directional Digital Coax/Coaxial Cable Splitter For Catv, Satellite And Moca Configurations
Low Signal Loss Of 3.5Db On Each Output Port Improving Performance And Speeds
High Shielding Structure Lowers Digital Noise And Improves Signal Quality
All Ports Are Power Passing For Easy Connection To Satellites, Amplifiers, And Cameras:


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## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

krkaufman said:


> This isn't awful, but it could be better.
> 
> MoCA gear has power adjustment capability built-in, and TX power can range from +3 (max amplification) to -30 (max reduction). 0 indicates your coax plant isn't optimal, but should still be capable of advertised rates. (Of course, the device not connecting may be a split too far.)


Would less splits (I.e., replacing a 2 / 3 splitter combo connected in tandem with a 4 splitter unit) help alleviate this problem?

Or would replacing all of the internal splits with the BAMF GHZ moca splitters provide more bandwidth than the 1002 splitters?


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## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

krkaufman said:


> This isn't awful, but it could be better.
> 
> MoCA gear has power adjustment capability built-in, and TX power can range from +3 (max amplification) to -30 (max reduction). 0 indicates your coax plant isn't optimal, but should still be capable of advertised rates. (Of course, the device not connecting may be a split too far.)


I'll check it again and report back.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

sts1 said:


> Or would replacing all of the internal splits with the BAMF GHZ moca splitters provide more bandwidth than the 1002 splitters?


TL;DR: A splitter can't be optimized for both satellite and MoCA Band D.

---

I'm not a fan of the BAMF line, for the reasons cited >here<:

from the product description:



> Description BAMF splitters ... designed for CATV or *satellite* services. Used frequency spectrum 5-2300 MHz for optimal performance on all devices. ... Works great with *MoCA* systems. ... low insertion loss, *high isolation* ...


Satellite requires high output port isolation in the satellite frequency range, 950-2150 MHz; MoCA requires/prefers low isolation across the MoCA Extended Band D range, 1125-1675 MHz; so, a splitter cannot be optimized for both satellite and retail MoCA use. There isn't any MoCA certification for splitters, that I'm aware of, but a splitter optimized for satellite with high output port isolation would, in my opinion, have a difficult time attaining such certification.

See >here< for a bit more blathering and a list of preferred MoCA 2.x splitters.


Spoiler: (Reddit post content [abridged])



Re: splitters, from a couple old posts...

MoCA 1.1 vs 2.5 bandwidth requirements: As suggested, a MoCA connection should be possible over basic cable splitters, but the need for "designed for MoCA" splitters increases with (1) greater coax complexity and (2) use of later MoCA specs, especially MoCA 2.5.

In a simple single-splitter setup, a sub-optimal MoCA splitter can be overcome via installation of a "PoE" MoCA filter on its input port; however, as the coax hierarchy expands, port hopping of MoCA signals increases the need for splitters designed for MoCA, with decreased output port isolation in the MoCA frequency range.

MoCA 1.1 requires just 50 MHz of bandwidth at the low end of the MoCA frequency range, typically 1125-1175 MHz, so wouldn't experience significantly different loss from a cable signal at the top-end of the splitter's range, 1002 MHz. However, MoCA 2.5 bonds 5 100 MHz channels, so requires nearly the entire MoCA Extended Band D range, 1125-1675 MHz, and so the need for splitters explicitly optimized for MoCA becomes more important.

---
Alternative "designed for MoCA 2.x" 2-way splitters...

Holland GHS-2PRO-M

Amphenol ABS312H MoCA 2.0 2-way

Verizon FiOS MoCA 2.0 2-way

Antronix MMC1002H-B


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

sts1 said:


> Would less splits (I.e., replacing a 2 / 3 splitter combo connected in tandem with a 4 splitter unit) help alleviate this problem?


Yes, altering the tree structure (and upgrading the splitters) may improve the MoCA stats (efficiency/performance; and connectivity).


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## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

krkaufman said:


> TL;DR: A splitter can't be optimized for both satellite and MoCA Band D.
> 
> ---
> 
> ...


I couldn't access the linked pages.

I ran an experiment and moved the Mini that wasn't working to the guest room. Guess what--it would't connect to the internet or the other tivos. So, I moved the Mini that was working in the guest room to the home office. It connected, although the image wasn't as sharp as it should have been.

I then returned the guest room mini to the guest room.

So I think I may have two problems now. 1. Not enough signal in the home office. 2. A blown Mini Vox.

My mesh system has a unit in the home office so I suppose I could connect the ethernet out from that to the Mini Vox to check whether it would work that way.

I probably do need a booster regardless. I can't add it outside where the signal comes into the house (and is split into two tranches before coming in) because there isn't any power there. Can I add it in the den on the splitter that isn't going to the cable modem/router? From what i've been reading on the booster series you recommended, there is some trickiness of the in the connections so maybe the AV company put the power input to the wrong port and caused the system to overload.

Thanks!


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## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

So I kept reading the forum and tried something else today. I connected the Mini Vox in the home office to the mesh unit in the home office using a 10-base-T cable. The unit connected to the internet and updated itself. Then I checked and it said that it had an internet and MoCA connection. So I disconnected the internet connection and had the unit re-connect using only MoCA. At that point, the Vox saw both the Romio and the Bolt (which is set to be the tuner unit for this Vox). I tried playing shows from the Romio and the Bolt and one played briefly while the other could not play. I'm then received a V98 help code for a lost connection to the Bolt.

Then the Vox found the bolt and can play shows from it (and use the tuner) but cannot find the Romio Pro. The Vox and the Bolt are on the same floor and (I'm guessing) are off of the same splitter outside while the Romio Pro is out of the other splitter outside.

I'm guessing that the problem is now the signal strength.

The Home Office Vox is showing the following signal strength when I go to the network status page:

Channel 15
Nodes 6
Network Version 1.1
Coordinator MAC:
TX Power: 3.00

Peer Mode MAC
TX power Estimate:3.00
RX power estimate: 0.00

Peer Mode MAC
TX power Estimate:3.00
RX power estimate: -60.01

Peer Mode MAC
TX power Estimate:3.00
RX power estimate: -50.02

Peer Mode MAC
TX power Estimate:3.00
RX power estimate: -52.00

Peer Mode MAC
TX power Estimate:3.00
RX power estimate: -62.07

The Home Office Vox also failed the TCP Port Test and the DNS test.

I have a 5 port booster coming in a week or so. I can't add it outside where all of the coax comes into the house because there is no power there. I can put it inside the house on the line running to the Romio Pro, which is the Moca Bridge. Would this help? Also, while I have a MoCA filter outside on before the coax is split into the house, should I also have one at the following places: (A) into the cable modem, (B) into the tuning adapter for the Romio Pro and (C) into the tuning adapter for the Bolt? Both tuning adapters are dead ended for Coax with Coax Terminator plugs on the output ports since they are connected to the Tivos using Usb cables.

I'd like to get this up and running because I may wind up doing some renovations in the future and building out two or three rooms which will need Minis.

thanks!


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## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

So I went back and tried one other thing. The AV company installed a BAMF 8 way splitter in the attic, but only two of the outputs were being used (the others were capped)--and one of those was to the home office because I thought the original line had stopped working when the Vox couldn't connect. So I installed the old 1002 2 port splitter and the Home Office Vox connects to everything now. So, it looks like my current problems are solved!

For future expansion, I will add a four port splitter in the attic and see if that works. if it doesn't, I will replace all of the splitters with the Holland Electronics splitters that were recommended here (instead of the BAMF). Should I also add a booster at that point? If so, can it be added just before the cable modem?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

sts1 said:


> The AV company installed a BAMF 8 way splitter in the attic, but only two of the outputs were being used


That's ridiculous. (Primarily the unnecessary losses associated with the oversized splitter, but also a company using BAMF splitters in a MoCA setup, assuming they were aware of the need for MoCA.)

Good time to get another read of your MoCA stats.


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## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

krkaufman said:


> That's ridiculous. (Primarily the unnecessary losses associated with the oversized splitter, but also a company using BAMF splitters in a MoCA setup, assuming they were aware of the need for MoCA.)
> 
> Good time to get another read of your MoCA stats.


They have maintained that they don't know much about MoCA.

And I'm the one who bought the splitters based on Amazon reviews. So it's really my fault. The 8 was too large because of how they had run an expansion in the bedroom. I changed how they ran it originally and, for expansion, now really only need a 4 splitter.

I'll switch everything to the Amphenol splitters if that will work better for expansion; should I continue with the 2/2 splitter set up or go with a 4 way splitter? I'm not really clear on which way creates less signal loss.

6 Nodes

Bridge:
Tx Power 2.00

Peer Node:
TX Power 2.00
RX Power -48.03

Peer Node:
TX Power 2.00
RX Power -59.02

Peer Node:
TX Power 2.00
RX Power -44.00

Peer Node:
TX Power 2.00
RX Power -48.03

Peer Node:
TX Power 2.00
RX Power -48.03


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Not loving the +2 dB TX power value. (Though better than +3.)

I’d need to actually read the thread and review your diagram to provide a suggestion/confirmation Re: coax tree alternatives. Will try to do so in the AM.


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## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

krkaufman said:


> Not loving the +2 dB TX power value. (Though better than +3.)
> 
> I'd need to actually read the thread and review your diagram to provide a suggestion/confirmation Re: coax tree alternatives. Will try to do so in the AM.


Thank you. I received three MoCA filters from Weaknees/Amazon today so I can install those tonight at the tuning adapters and cable modem if you think they'll help. Let me know what else I should do and I'll place an order!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Had begun reading/replying this morning and still need to get to the diagram, but dog-sitting took precedent. However, on reading your filters update I felt compelled to push out what I'd drafted thus far&#8230;

--


sts1 said:


> When the master closet was added a few months ago, it worked but caused the Romio and Bolt to stop talking to each other. Then, over the last month or so, as the AV guys changed out splitters from the 1002 MHZ splitters to the BAMF splitters, the minis stopped talking to the Romio but continued talking to the Bolt. Then the Room 2 mini stopped receiving signal. Now all of the units have stopped receiving internet signal (the Romio and Bolt do have television signal but cannot connect to the internet over coax).


This detail certainly makes it seem like the change to the coax hierarchy or components are at root.



sts1 said:


> 2. The diagram is a guesstimate as I assume that the downstairs wire is on one splitter and the upstairs wire is on the other, but there's no way for me to know for sure.


Assuming you have access to any outside cable junction box, you can use coax testing tools, such as those linked below, to map your coax lines.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-Coax-Continuity-Analog-Test-Meter/50278121
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-Coax-Explorer-2-with-Remote-Kit-VDV512-101/302793719



sts1 said:


> Should I add an additional filter at each tuning adapter and also at the cable modem input?


First, understand that a MoCA filter blocks MoCA signals (i.e. RF signals at MoCA frequencies). This is why a MoCA filter is required at the residence's cable point-of-entry, to keep the MoCA LAN signals from escaping the home. MoCA filters can also be employed to protect specific devices that are sensitive to MoCA signals (tuning adapters, some older or DOCSIS 3.1 modems), where installing a MoCA filter directly on the sensitive device can function as a prophylactic.

For example, installing a MoCA filter on each TA is generally recommended in a MoCA setup, and specifically recommended if a TA is misbehaving (beyond the usual TA hassles) when a MoCA network is present.

Similarly, some older cable modems were sensitive to MoCA signals and could be made stable by installation of a protective MoCA filter on their coax port. It's even been seen that some newer DOCSIS 3.1 modems have issues when a MoCA network is active, with a protective MoCA filter allowing stable operation; however, the appropriate solution/workaround for protecting a D3.1 modem is dependent on whether the provider is using D3.1 frequencies above 1.2GHz.

Then there's the case of MoCA bridging-capable gateways. Personally, if I'm leasing such a gateway from a provider but *NOT* using the gateway's built-in MoCA bridging, I may install a MoCA filter on the gateway to prevent issues should the gateway's MoCA bridging feature be accidentally activated - to avoid a possible dual bridging loop. (Though adding a MoCA filter for this case must now also take DOCSIS 3.1 into consideration.) Of course, if one *is* using the gateway's built-in MoCA bridging, a MoCA filter must *NOT* be installed on the gateway as it would block MoCA communication.


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## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

krkaufman said:


> Had begun reading/replying this morning and still need to get to the diagram, but dog-sitting took precedent. However, on reading your filters update I felt compelled to push out what I'd drafted thus far&#8230;
> 
> --
> 
> ...


I believe the modem/gateway devide is the Technicolor CGM4141, which is a Docsis 3.1 panaramic wifi gateway. I'm only using it as a cable modem; i'm not using it for MoCA (which is disabled on the gateway although I suppose Cox could turn it back on); I'm also not using it for wifi. It is being used for telephony.

Should I install a filter at the modem or leave it alone?


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## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

kpeters59 said:


> *Sure...that's what you need, another split in your Coax Plant.*
> 
> On your TiVo's, go in to Network Settings and in Diagnostics, there's a MoCA page. Try to note the MAC Address' and the Power Levels. Your Router likely provides some MoCA Diagnostics, as well...
> 
> ...A Powered MoCA Splitter would probably do a world of good. Like this:





sts1 said:


> *The AV company that I use (who doesn't seem to know much about MoCA) tried adding that very powered splitter and said that the network shut down so I sent it back to Amazon.*
> ---SNIP---
> Peer Node MAC
> TX Power Estimate 0.00
> ...





sts1 said:


> *I don't know how to check MoCA levels. The Romio Pro and Bolt have occasionally gotten an IP address but not consistently...*
> 
> *...I read somewhere that there was an advantage to using multiple splitters in terms of signal degradation compared to just using a single splitter with more ports.* Not sure if that is the case, though.


*DISCLAIMER:*
Don't CLICK on this unless you're 'Thick-Skinned' .
I'm not replying directly to the OP but to ANYONE reading this thread .


Spoiler



I'm a retired Techie. I read several forums daily, to increase my knowledge, but, who am I kidding, the majority is for the entertainment . HOW DUMB HAVE PEOPLE BECOME?!? 

GOOGLE / BING / THE INTERNET: IMNSHO, is the *GREATEST* repository of information (currently) available to man, *IF* you know how to use it. When I was *MUCH* younger, several decades ago, I had to go to the Public Library, READ BOOKS and PHOTOCOPY individual pages to take home to 'fix' things that I wanted to fix (Somehow / fortunately, I didn't take after my father in this respect - *ANYTHING* I wanted to learn how to do, within reason, I did). Today, I lay back on my couch (granted I'm now (temporarily, I HOPE!) disabled, need open heart surgery (delayed due to Covid   ), overwrought with crippling arthritis) but I can still READ a tablet (Amazon Fires - *BIG* Bucks!  ).

Technology nowadays is available to the masses (back in the 80s when I ran a RCP/M BBS, you HAD to be technical just to have built a computer, added a modem and FOUND my BBS). But, just because you can BUY it doesn't automatically mean you know how to USE or MAINTAIN it. "_Take a beat_" and come to the realization that *YOU* are (most likely) not the *FIRST* person to experience a specific problem with a specific device. How many times is the SAME QUESTION asked over and over and over on TCF? 

"Does anybody know what FOUR LIGHTS FLASHING MEANS?!?"


Hi @sts1 ,

I was reading your thread this morning on my tablet (with my morning coffee) and I found an interesting LINK for you. But, being a 100+ wpm touch typist since high school (decades ago), I refuse to post using my tablet(s); (I tried 'Voice Input' once or twice, but there were still too many manual corrections required  ).

I'm specifically addressing the next to last sentence in your last post that I QUOTE'd above (in BOLD, RED, LARGE type). I'm sorry that you're not technically inclined. It's not your fault. But, if you're inclined to learn, I'm willing to help ("Give a man a fish" vs "Teach a man how to fish"). I'm even sorrier that you hired incompetent AV '_technicians_'   .

Let's begin with splitters:






















Reference: *How Much Signal do I Lose Using a Splitter?*

Why would a KNOWLEDGEABLE TECHNICIAN install an 8-port splitter and only use 2 ports?!?  Instead of incurring the minimal 50% loss on each leg, you now have a 12.5% loss! At least consider using the *Powered MoCA Splitter* suggested by @kpeters59 , capping each unused outlet with a 75 ohm load until needed.

Next point is MoCA - I personally have no experience with MoCA. But, when I have something that has a 'range' of 0-100, I don't customarily like to run it at "100%". An automobile won't last very long running at 120 mph 24x7. An incandescent light bulb (Yeah, I didn't AUTOMATICALLY / mindlessly throw out all my incandescents for CFLs, then CFLs for LEDs  ) lasts *MUCH* longer when dimmed. I have a bulb (at least 20 years old) in my hallway that runs every evening from sunset until 11 PM (controlled by X-10 Home Automation from an era "_long, long, ago..._") dimmed. I have a Panasonic 32" LCD / CFL HDTV from 2011 still in perfect condition because, IMHO, I immediately turned the backlight down to 50% (and the brightness to 100%). I only replaced it last month (it's moving from the living room into the bedroom) with a new 2021 Toshiba 43" LCD / LED 4K Fire HDTV because it was on sale (for about the same price as the Panasonic 10 years earlier) and I'm a big fan of Alexa devices ("It's 12 noon - Remember to take your heart pill" :handok.

So, as we see according to MoCA specs (and @krkaufman  ):


krkaufman said:


> This isn't awful, but it could be better.
> 
> MoCA gear has power adjustment capability built-in, and *TX power can range from +3 (max amplification) to -30 (max reduction)*. 0 indicates your coax plant isn't optimal, but should still be capable of advertised rates. (Of course, the device not connecting may be a split too far.)


You're running with no 'headroom'. I think you should correct that, IMNSHO.

As for a wiring diagram "Where are the cables / how are they connected?":


sts1 said:


> I've drawn out the diagram *as I understand it*...


...I mean anyone with a strong enough desire could figure that out. But, it will take some effort.


Spoiler



You could disconnect EVERY COAX CABLE. Then, create a short at one end of one cable and check continuity at each other end. Only one cable should respond. Continue until you've mapped your entire home. Create a diagram. Store it for posterity.


I personally wired my current home (TV, Ethernet, etc...) but when I was an "Apartment Dweller" long ago, one of our first apartments was one side of an old duplex with 15A wires and 30A fuses  . I brought this to the attention of the landlord and he explained to me "The 15A fuses kept blowing...". When I told it that it wasn't safe, he wouldn't here it so I went out and bought my own 15A fuses. I also had to 'Map Out' all the outlets and lights in the apartment so that I could remain below the 15A limit per branch (there were only FOUR branches for the entire apartment!). To run toasters and air conditioners, I had to carefully balance the current draw on each branch with MANY extension cords strung unceremoniously everywhere (to the dismay of my new bride). When we moved out, I removed my 15A fuses and re-installed the original 30A fuses that the landlord wanted in there. A few years later, when we were visiting relatives nearby, I noticed the 2nd floor of the side of the duplex where we once lived had suffered severe fire damage. Folks need to be responsible for their decisions...

So..., if your MoCA transmitters are "Max'd out", I'd research it to find out why. Just because it's running OK today doesn't mean it'll keep running OK tomorrow... 

Another "Wall of Text", cordially brought to you by @ClearToLand  .
*I* don't need to artificially increase my post count by creating a SEPARATE post for EACH question  .


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

ClearToLand said:


> Instead of incurring the minimal 50% loss on each leg, you now have a 12.5% loss!


Probably want to reword this.



ClearToLand said:


> At least consider using the *Powered MoCA Splitter* suggested by @kpeters59 , capping each unused outlet with a 75 ohm load until needed.


Depending on where the coax lines connect, an amplifier may be of no value as it would only amplify the sub-MoCA frequencies &#8230; and the OP hasn't voiced any issues with Internet connectivity or TV signal tuning, just MoCA LAN connectivity. And installing a MoCA amplifier anywhere other than the drop point (main distribution location) would likely break MoCA communication, as any respectable "designed for MoCA" amp would have a built-in MoCA filter blocking MoCA from passing the input port.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Re: the diagram&#8230; It's very helpful but is limited without specifics on component locations &#8230; what's inside vs. outside, or co-located within each room/location. It's difficult to make any suggestions as to how your setup could be rewired absent additional detail on just where the coax lines terminate, what splitters are co-located and so could be combined, and whether you have any plans for expanding the setup to additional rooms. I'm also curious about the choice of modem/WiFi device location and if there's any flexibility on that front, or if there are any rooms with multiple coax outlets. (Longer term, it would be preferred if the cable Internet signal could be isolated from the MoCA LAN, due to overlap between the operating frequencies for MoCA and DOCSIS 3.1+, and additional coax or relocating the modem can be helpful toward that end.)

Re: the specific example of the Den&#8230;


sts1 said:


> For example, the two splitters in the den could be replaced by one four port splitter (instead of having two two port splitters).


Close.

Your cable modem wouldn't view that as an improvement, whatever minimal improvement might be gained at the DVR & TA by eliminating the bonus loss associated with the coax link between the two cascaded 2-way splitters. In the diagrammed config, the modem should be seeing ~3.5 dB loss, since it's hanging off an output of the top-level 2-way splitter, while the DVR & TA would see the accumulated losses of the two splitters (~7 dB) plus the loss associated with the coax connection between the splitters.

A better replacement for a pair of cascaded 2-way splitters is an unbalanced 3-way splitter (for example), maintaining the signal savings for the low-loss port but eliminating the loss and clutter associated with the coax interconnection.

That said, what you choose for the Den would depend on whether you wish to retain the Den as your cable modem location, and whether you want to continue using the Roamio Pro as your main MoCA/Ethernet bridge or revert to using the TiVo Bridge or some other standalone MoCA adapter.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

sts1 said:


> My mesh system has a unit in the home office so I suppose I could connect


Wait, what? Specifics on the mesh setup would be great if they could be added to the diagram, as well, including specific brand & model numbers, and component locations for the main unit and mesh nodes. (Curious as to whether the mesh setup allows wired Ethernet backhaul, but the model info should answer that.)

Seeing that you have a mesh setup, I'm even more curious about the choice of modem location and whether it can be relocated.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

sts1 said:


> connected a 10-base-T* line directly from the modem (instead of from the Alien or not at all) into the Romio, the system popped up again


This symptom likely relates to your attempted use of the Cox gateway as a modem only &#8230; without having Cox provision the gateway to function strictly as a modem, in "bridge mode." Assuming your main AmpliFi Alien(?) mesh node functions as a router, not configuring the Cox gateway in "bridge mode" results in two separate LANs, one on either side of the Alien router's firewall. TiVo devices would not be able to communicate between the separate LANs.

So&#8230; the remedy is to have Cox provision the gateway strictly to function as a modem ("bridge mode"), and then all your devices should link via the Alien's LAN & WLAN. (i.e. with nothing but the Alien Ethernet WAN port connecting to the Cox "modem")

A side benefit of having the gateway set to modem-only "bridge mode" is that you then don't have to worry about disabling its features that you won't be using, including DHCP, the wireless access point and the MoCA bridge. These features are unavailable when the gateway is set to bridge mode.

* p.s. Hopefully you're using Gigabit-capable Cat5e+ cables, rather than some 10-Base-T relic! 

---


sts1 said:


> I can reduce the splitters inside the house; I'm not sure if I can replace the ones in at the cable line in because i'm not sure which line is the unused line


Absent a coax testing tool, you can just connect the lines individually to the incoming provider line, moving the modem about inside to test for connectivity.


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## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

krkaufman said:


> Probably want to reword this.
> 
> Depending on where the coax lines connect, an amplifier may be of no value as it would only amplify the sub-MoCA frequencies &#8230; and the OP hasn't voiced any issues with Internet connectivity or TV signal tuning, just MoCA LAN connectivity. And installing a MoCA amplifier anywhere other than the drop point (main distribution location) would likely break MoCA communication, as any respectable "designed for MoCA" amp would have a built-in MoCA filter blocking MoCA from passing the input port.


I can't install a booster outside where the main drop comes in if the booster requires power (which I think it would). The input main drop is in a Cox box on the outside of the house.

I had some issues with internet and TV tuning but they went away when Cox got their system up and running better (we had a little hurricane here in New Orleans that disrupted things).


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## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

krkaufman said:


> Re: the diagram&#8230; It's very helpful but is limited without specifics on component locations &#8230; what's inside vs. outside, or co-located within each room/location. It's difficult to make any suggestions as to how your setup could be rewired absent additional detail on just where the coax lines terminate, what splitters are co-located and so could be combined, and whether you have any plans for expanding the setup to additional rooms. I'm also curious about the choice of modem/WiFi device location and if there's any flexibility on that front, or if there are any rooms with multiple coax outlets. (Longer term, it would be preferred if the cable Internet signal could be isolated from the MoCA LAN, due to overlap between the operating frequencies for MoCA and DOCSIS 3.1+, and additional coax or relocating the modem can be helpful toward that end.)
> 
> Re the Diagram:
> 
> ...


I'm fine with leaving the cable modem in the den. I'm also fine using the Romio Pro as the MoCA bridge unless there's some reason I shouldn't. One less split....


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## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

krkaufman said:


> This symptom likely relates to your attempted use of the Cox gateway as a modem only &#8230; without having Cox provision the gateway to function strictly as a modem, in "bridge mode." Assuming your main AmpliFi Alien(?) mesh node functions as a router, not configuring the Cox gateway in "bridge mode" results in two separate LANs, one on either side of the Alien router's firewall. TiVo devices would not be able to communicate between the separate LANs.
> 
> Okay. That explains why the Romio Pro couldn't get a connection when connected by 10-base-T to the back of the Alien but could connect when attached to the back of the Cox gateway. The original hookup was through the Tivo Bridge so either there wasn't enough signal for the bridge or the bridge has gone bad.
> 
> ...


I'm going to order one and see what I come up with.

Should I also look to change the splitters inside the house so they're all 1675 ghz? I can also change the splitters at the cable drop if that would help. Diagram attached with a few questions and thoughts.

thanks!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

sts1 said:


> I'm also fine using the Romio Pro as the MoCA bridge unless there's some reason I shouldn't. One less split....


It depends on how stable your Roamio Pro is, preference, and network throughput requirements.

Reliability: Our Pro units semi-randomly reboot, so wouldn't be reliable as a critical network component, in our case.
Throughput: FWIW, the Roamio Plus/Pro MoCA is v1.1, so limited to approx. 150 Mbps; the TiVo Bridge, BOLT and Mini VOX/LUX are all standard MoCA 2.0, so capable of up to 400 Mbps.

Then there's the question of whether MoCA can be of use to you beyond simply networking your TiVo boxes.



sts1 said:


> The input main drop is in a Cox box on the outside of the house.


Any chance you can snap/upload a pic of the contents of this box?

---


sts1 said:


> I can't install a booster outside where the main drop comes in if the booster requires power (which I think it would).


FYI&#8230; For this reason, nearly all coax amplifiers offer a remote power option, where the power adapter is installed inside the home but the power is sent over the coax to the amp installed outside. (You'll see an output port on the amp also tagged as "remote power," and a splitter-like component called a power inserter is used to merge the power onto the coax line.)

Hopefully moot, as you don't appear to need an amplifier.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Can you achieve this?

It would add _many_ .dB of signal to your coax plant.

This unit is capable of being 'remotely' powered over the coax on Port 1.

There's a particularly large Cable Company who uses these on nearly _every_ MoCA setup.

-KP


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

sts1 said:


> Re the Diagram:
> 
> The cable drop is outside as are the MoCA filter and first two splitters (all in the plastic Cox box on the side of the house).


Ok, that's great; you *do* have a number of lines (most) emanating from a single location. Given that your cable services are operating as expected (acceptably), I'd suggest a passive alternative to an amplifier, sort of if an unbalanced 3-way and 4-way splitter were linked and combined with a MoCA filter: the Amphenol hybrid MoCA splitter. (see here)

Much like with the "designed for MoCA" amp suggested in the previous posts, this hybrid splitter w/ built-in MoCA isolation would be a replacement for 3+ components in your outside cable box: the MoCA filter and the two splitters (plus now-extraneous coax cables).

In your case, you'd link the modem/Roamio location via the H1 output port and the BOLT via H2 or H3. You'd cap any unused outputs w/ a 75 ohm terminator, and you'd still want to upgrade other splitters to "designed/optimized for MoCA" models (i.e. not BAMF).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

sts1 said:


> I can also change the splitters at the cable drop if that would help.


Yes, that would very likely be beneficial, either going with the hybrid splitter or your suggestions in the diagram (but with a tweak).



sts1 said:


> Diagram attached with a few questions and thoughts.












These would be good improvements, though with this additional change, as well: swap the "Living Room" and "Room 4" lines, so that Room 4 is connected via the 2nd output of the unbalanced 3-way, rather than hanging off the 4-way splitter. (Similar to connecting Room 4 via the hybrid splitter's H2 port.)

This will improve cable signal strength to the BOLT and its TA, plus it should balance and improve MoCA connectivity for the MoCA nodes stretched out over the attic.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Sidebar: Once you've stabilized your setup, a wired backhaul for your mesh node up in the Home Office might be something to consider, switching to a MoCA 2.5 adapter as your main bridge, plus another 2.5 adapter in the Home Office. To that end, a lower cost path to MoCA 2.5 can be found via the Frontier-branded refits of goCoax adapters, selling on eBay for $36 each (prev $30). See here.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

sts1 said:


> The house was built six years ago but I don't know what kind of cables were installed. The house was built by a developer on spec.


Sidebar #2: Do you have phone outlets throughout the house? Are you using these at present?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

sts1 said:


> I couldn't access the linked pages.


The post has been updated (here) to include/embed the content from the second link, as well.


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## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

krkaufman said:


> Sidebar #2: Do you have phone outlets throughout the house? Are you using these at present?


no phone or Ethernet lines in the house.


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## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

Here are photos of the Cox box.


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## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

sts1 said:


> Here are photos of the Cox box.
> View attachment 62730
> View attachment 62731


Nice clear picture but I don't see where these two splitters are indicated in the diagram in Post #7  .

What I 'guess' is happening is the main coax from the pole passes through the MoCA Filter and then goes into the 3-way splitter. The -3db top most output of that splitter feeds the input to the 4-way splitter. So, all four outputs of the 4-way splitter start off with (-3.5db) + (-7db) = -10.5db (12.5% of original signal level) loss *BEFORE* the lines hit the additional splitters located inside your house.

The bottom two outputs of the 3-way splitter are -7db (25% of original signal level), so a little better.

Now, IMHO, the Powered MoCA Splitter @kpeters59 suggested in Post #10 would give all six coax lines going into your home "Unity Gain", i.e. 0db - NO LOSS. Put 75 Ohm terminators on the two unused outlets.

Then you can work on the inside of your house.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

ClearToLand said:


> Nice clear picture but I don't see where these two splitters are indicated in the diagram in Post #7


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

ClearToLand said:


> Now, IMHO, the Powered MoCA Splitter @kpeters59 suggested in Post #10 would give all six coax lines going into your home "Unity Gain", i.e. 0db - NO LOSS. Put 75 Ohm terminators on the two unused outlets.


Except, again, the OP hasn't stated that they have *any* issue with cable Internet service or TV tuning (once some hiccups were resolved by the provider), so adding an amplifier is an unnecessary expense and complication.

Could the amp help? Sure! But in the same way that replacing the current Antronix 1GHz splitters with "designed for MoCA" splitters (or the hybrid splitter) would help. Alternatively, if the future expansion includes more locations requiring the raw cable signal (rather than just MoCA connectivity), then an amp may be worth the expense; and the same if the OP would like the flexibility of moving their modem or DVRs between locations without having to adjust the central connections.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

sts1 said:


> no phone or Ethernet lines in the house.


Well played. That *was* where I was headed with the phone line questioning.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

sts1 said:


> Here are photos of the Cox box.
> View attachment 62730
> View attachment 62731


Per the pics, you *do* already have an unbalanced 3-way with a 4-way, but hopefully using designed for MoCA splitters will net some improvement. Another minor improvement, short of shrinking the 4-way if any of those lines won't be used, might come from moving the "PoE" MoCA filter from the in-line ground block location to the input of the 3-way splitter.

Mapping the coax lines will help in deciding what should connect where, but you may want to play around with how lines connect to the 3-way. I'd still recommend that the modem/Roamio Pro and BOLT lines connect to the 3-way (rather than the BOLT hanging off the 4-way), but YMMV on which line optimally connects to the low-loss port. (Typically, the provider strives to minimize loss to/from the modem.)


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## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

ClearToLand said:


> Nice clear picture but I don't see where these two splitters are indicated in the diagram in Post #7  .
> 
> What I 'guess' is happening is the main coax from the pole passes through the MoCA Filter and then goes into the 3-way splitter. The -3db top most output of that splitter feeds the input to the 4-way splitter. So, all four outputs of the 4-way splitter start off with (-3.5db) + (-7db) = -10.5db (12.5% of original signal level) loss *BEFORE* the lines hit the additional splitters located inside your house.
> 
> ...


Yes, the line goes in to the MoCA filter and then to the 3 way splitter and then to the 4 way splitter.

I bought a powered splitter but it is only a 5 way splitter. (Commscope CSMAPDU5VPI 5-Port MoCA HomeConnect Passive VoIP Amplifier with MoCA Connectivity, Unity Forward/Reverse, with Power inserter, Faster Internet Phone Comcast Xfinity (5-Port Moca, Gray)). I probably only need five outputs since one of the lines currently connected to the splitters is inaccessible inside the walls of the house. I'm not positive about that though. If I'm wrong, I can send this unit back to Amazon.

I can't set things up as you suggest at Room 4 because there is only one line going into that room, so I can't run two separate lines from the powered splitter outside. I have to use a splitter inside the house for that split.

How does the powered part work? Do I just plug the power supply into a coax in one of the rooms using a splitter? I don't have a separate line that is accessible and unused to run power directly from a converter back to the outside of the house where the powered splitter would be located.


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## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

krkaufman said:


> Per the pics, you *do* already have an unbalanced 3-way with a 4-way, but hopefully using designed for MoCA splitters will net some improvement. Another minor improvement, short of shrinking the 4-way if any of those lines won't be used, might come from moving the "PoE" MoCA filter from the in-line ground block location to the input of the 3-way splitter.
> 
> Mapping the coax lines will help in deciding what should connect where, but you may want to play around with how lines connect to the 3-way. I'd still recommend that the modem/Roamio Pro and BOLT lines connect to the 3-way (rather than the BOLT hanging off the 4-way), but YMMV on which line optimally connects to the low-loss port. (Typically, the provider strives to minimize loss to/from the modem.)


I can shrink the 4 way to a 3 way since one of the lines is now covered with sheetrock inside the house and is inaccessible. Would I still use an unbalanced splitter (3.9 and 7.7x2) to avoid double degradation?


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## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

Hello again @sts1 ,

I'm a retired "Old Fart Tinkerer" so my brain is pretty much full with decades of experiences. As such, whenever there's NEW material that needs to go IN, some OLD material has to go OUT.  It's been almost a week since I originally replied to your thread so whatever I '_learned / discovered_' last week is now mostly '_gone with the wind_'. 

Have you bothered to do much independent research into the topics that I previously posted? Do you now understand the enormous signal loss from your serial / inline / piggybacked 4-way splitters? i.e. in Room 4, you have 12.5% of the original signal FEEDING another 4-way splitter. So, the Bolt is getting 25% of 12.5% = 3.125%. The TiVo Mini (Closet TV) hanging off the subsequent 2-way splitter is getting 50% of 3.125% = 1.5625%. Personally I find it hard to believe that these devices work with that little amount of original signal. 


sts1 said:


> ...*I bought a powered splitter but it is only a 5 way splitter*. (Commscope CSMAPDU5VPI 5-Port MoCA HomeConnect Passive VoIP Amplifier with MoCA Connectivity, Unity Forward/Reverse, with Power inserter, Faster Internet Phone Comcast Xfinity (5-Port Moca, Gray)). I probably only need five outputs since one of the lines currently connected to the splitters is inaccessible inside the walls of the house. I'm not positive about that though. If I'm wrong, I can send this unit back to Amazon...


If all you'll ever need FOREVER is 5-ports, well, fine and dandy. When folks want to purchase Ethernet switches, I always recommend buying an 8-port over a 5-port - better to have and not need than to need and not have.


sts1 said:


> ...*I can't set things up as you suggest at Room 4* because there is only one line going into that room, so I can't run two separate lines from the powered splitter outside. I have to use a splitter inside the house for that split...


What exactly are you saying that I suggested? 


sts1 said:


> ...*How does the powered part work?* Do I just plug the power supply into a coax in one of the rooms using a splitter? I don't have a separate line that is accessible and unused to run power directly from a converter back to the outside of the house where the powered splitter would be located.


I don't own any powered splitters so @kpeters59 would be able to give you a definitive answer but, as a guess, I'd imagine it comes with a 'power injector'; looks like your MoCA filter but has wires to a plug-in power supply. I'd probably place it in the line between the outside powered splitter and the den splitter, at the input to the den splitter. Have you done any reading on this topic outside of this thread?

When I choose to volunteer ~30-60 minutes of my free time to help a total stranger troubleshoot a problem I expect appreciation, cooperation, respect and timely responses. Even though I selectively 'Pick-n-Choose' the threads I reply to, the majority of the time I'm disappointed in the outcome. (Recently, besides just being ignored, I was called names and cussed at. ) If folks prefer 'Quick-n-Dirty' snipes (i.e. limited information, sometimes incorrect information, usually incomplete information) from volunteers sitting back on their couches watching TV while simultaneously answering 10s of posts per day on their smartphones or tablets, well that's their choice.


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## sts1 (Jan 2, 2009)

ClearToLand said:


> Hello again @sts1 ,
> 
> I'm a retired "Old Fart Tinkerer" so my brain is pretty much full with decades of experiences. As such, whenever there's NEW material that needs to go IN, some OLD material has to go OUT.  It's been almost a week since I originally replied to your thread so whatever I '_learned / discovered_' last week is now mostly '_gone with the wind_'.
> 
> ...


I put this project aside for a few days because I'm also dealing with Hurricane Ida clean up and repairs. We have a few things going on here in Southeastern Louisiana.

I do appreciate everyone's insights. Had I not had this forum as a resource, I probably would have thrown out the Mini that wasn't working (not realizing that it needed to connect to reestablish itself). And I wouldn't have understood that the root of the problem was the 8 way splitter in the attic that was only connected to two lines.

I have done research on this board and have also watched the Amphenol videos. I think I have an understanding of the signal loss; i'm not clear on when I should be using a balanced splitter v. an unbalanced splitter when I start replacing things inside the house.

In terms of the line coming in and the splitters outside of the house, there are two splitters with a total of six lines coming into the house. Five of those lines are active or could be active if I had a device in the room where the line runs. One line is inaccessible inside the house.

Because of that, if I need an amplifier, I would only need a five split amplifier _assuming _that one of the wires/lines to the amplifier can run both power from a power source inside the house AND signal. If a separate wire is needed to be run from the power source to the amplifier, I don't have enough wires running outside to where the amplifier would have to go, so I wouldn't be able to use an amplifier at all. I've read what has been posted here on how the power supply to the amplifier works but am still unclear as to whether a separate powered line is needed TO the amplifier.

Based on what I've read here and the fact that the system is working right now, I don't think I need an amplifier at this point and may not need one in the future if all I am doing is adding more Mini units. (Someone who wanted to run cable lines as opposed to MoCA lines might need to change that to an amplifier).

It seems to me that I could probably improve the system with the Infinity premise Docsis Passive 3 x hybrid + 4 x Moca ports splitter. (IPGH3M4-VF) and also changing out the splitters inside the house to the Amphenol MoCA specific splitters.

By the way, the note about Room 4 was to a suggestion from krkaufman, not you. In looking at the set up again, I think I can move Room 4 to the left side of a passive 3/hybrid 4 splitter and increase feed there. I plan to trace the lines when the Kline explorer device arrives and I can get outside during daylight so I know which line is to which room.

So I have two final questions, both of which are probably best directed to krkaufman. The first is what is the difference between the HOL-ABS313H and the HOL-GHS-3PRO-M that was recommended? I the latter geared toward cable as opposed to satellite or something? Because it looks like the former unit has less signal loss. I just want to be clear before I start ordering. If anyone has some insight, please let me know.

The second question I have is about the MoCA bridge. The only thing I'm using the MoCA network for is TiVO. All of my computers connect through the wifi mesh system and that speed is fine for what I'm doing. With that in mind, and noting the instability of the Romio Pro for MoCA that was noted in an earlier post, should I return to using TiVO bridge or upgrading to the Frontier unit, or just move the Bolt downstairs to act as the bridge? If I return to an external bridge, I would have to use a 4 way splitter in the den (with -7.3 signal loss to the gateway and the other devices) or a 2 way splitter connected to a 3 way splitter (which would lead to -3.7 signal loss to the gateway and -7.4 signal loss to the TiVO and tuning adapter).

Thank you.


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## dougtv (May 20, 2015)

This isn't a helpful reply but just a thank for posting this in general to remind me to setup a Moca network with my TiVo. I don't know why I thought it was going to be more complicated than it is. Basically now every room that has AppleTV and a TiVo/Tivo Mini...now uses the CAT5e dedicated for the streaming device (Apple TV). This has reduced WiFi consumption for nearly every room and our theater now.

Roamio Pro in Living Room is acting as the bridge.
Mini in bedroom and mini in office are now on Moca
and our Premiere XL 4 in Theater, while having its own tuning adapter of course, is using the Roamio Pro's Moca network to phone home to TiVo now for guide updates so we can use the Ethernet in our theater for our streaming/Apple TV device.

I don't know why I never thought of doing this ever since I had the Roamio Pro. Now we use less WiFi for streaming and don't need a ethernet switch for these rooms either.

The Living Room Apple TV is still on wifi because the ethernet is dedicated for the Roamio Pro bridge, but that Apple TV is right next to the laundry room where the 5ghz asus router is.

*The only real issue I have noticed *is one of my TiVo minis* generates a quiet high-pitch frequency buzzing noise when MoCa is enabled on it.* I hope it goes away over time but maybe I need to replace it. It's a 9300 too.


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