# Xfinity VOD app



## TiVo_Ted

Starting a new thread on TiVo support for Comcast Xfinity customers. 

First, nationwide support for Comcast linear TV services is not changing. Comcast and TiVo still support our mutual customers accessing the full Xfinity live TV service on TiVo DVR's with the use of a CableCARD decoder provided by Comcast.

What is changing is that Comcast and TiVo are announcing the end of support for the current Xfinity VOD application. The reason behind this is that the servers which are supporting this VOD application are running on an older operating system which has passed end-of-support.

Those of you that have used the Xfinity VOD application on TiVo have probably noticed that it is quite dated by now. This is because the VOD application was written on top of TiVo's old HME architecture which we no longer use now that HTML5 has taken off.

TiVo and Comcast are actively working together on a plan to bring a more modern Xfinity application to TiVo customers. I can't give you any more details on that now, but stay tuned. In the meantime, there are several other applications on TiVo that may fill the gap in the interim.


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## NashGuy

TiVo_Ted said:


> TiVo and Comcast are actively working together on a plan to bring a more modern Xfinity application to TiVo customers. I can't give you any more details on that now, but stay tuned.


I'm wondering if this new app will just be the same Xfinity Stream app that they have on Roku and Samsung smart TVs and which Comcast has said will spread to additional platforms in 2019. That seems to be Comcast's entire app strategy going forward and the only means by which they plan to allow third-party devices to access their services. Although if TiVo insisted on it, I suppose Comcast might make a "truncated" version of the Stream app just for TiVo that doesn't contains live streaming channels or cloud DVR features, just VOD...


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## jcddc

I’m glad to hear than an updated app is in the works. When I upgraded to Verizon FiOS internet last year, I kept Comcast cable in part because TiVo supported Comcast VOD. I will now wait for the app before I consider switching to FiOS tv. I appreciate TiVo working on the update.


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## morac

So is the Xfinity VOD app being pulled or just not supported?

Basically when will it stop working? Also will TE3 be supported in the future or just TE4?


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## NashGuy

morac said:


> So is the Xfinity VOD app being pulled or just not supported?
> 
> Basically when will it stop working? Also will TE3 be supported in the future or just TE4?


Based on the letter this guy got today, it sounds like the entire app will disappear (or completely stop working) across all TiVos on June 25.


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## reneg

Appreciate the update, but not so much the news. 

Never liked the no FF capability in Xfinity VOD. I found my usage of the Tivo Xfinity VOD app is/was mostly when shows are preempted due to weather, or other local news events where they just can't wait to tell you until after prime time. Hoping that a future solution runs on TE3.


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## NashGuy

Comcast and their NBCUniversal division will next year roll out a new ad-supported subscription streaming service that features some new exclusive original shows plus back seasons of certain NBCU series such as The Office. Comcast will throw it in for free to all of their cable TV subscribers. I'm sure it will have its own branded app for cord-cutters who subscribe to it as a standalone service but, for Comcast cable TV subs, perhaps this new service's content will just get subsumed within the VOD library on Comcast X1 boxes and the Xfinity Stream app.

All that to say, maybe the forthcoming Comcast app for TiVo will give TiVo users a way to access that new service without having to switch to a Roku, Apple TV, etc.


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## Bigg

So is this just a matter of the way TiVo controls the QAM-based VOD, or is QAM-based VOD going away entirely on Comcast in favor of IP-VOD that most of their boxes (X1) already use? Is the new app on TiVo going to be able to use the more modern IP-VOD system?


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## schatham

This stinks. All the shows no longer on I like to watch now and again like Sopranos, I will have to switch to roku.

Maybe this is why the one passes no longer work for on demand.


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## morac

Bigg said:


> So is this just a matter of the way TiVo controls the QAM-based VOD, or is QAM-based VOD going away entirely on Comcast in favor of IP-VOD that most of their boxes (X1) already use? Is the new app on TiVo going to be able to use the more modern IP-VOD system?


My educated guess would be the later as that's how the Roku and Samsung TV apps work and Comcast is already trying to get rid of legacy boxes so why would they have a third party implementing a new app use a system they are trying to retire. My understanding is that the IP system doesn't count towards your Internet cap (if you have one), but it does require Xfinity Internet.

Speaking of the Roku app, I hadn't looked at it for awhile since Comcast was charging extra for HD. They stopped doing so when I last negotiated a contract rate in December, but I still didn't use it.

I just checked it out and was surprised how full featured it is now. They added On Demand, cloud DVR (even for customers without X1 boxes) and the On Demand picture looks better than what I get through the Tivo (both live and on demand) as well. Maybe they give more bandwidth to IP than QAM or maybe it's the hardware?


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## morac

schatham said:


> Maybe this is why the one passes no longer work for on demand.


I'm pretty sure that broke once the guide data switched to Rovi's. It's been a long time since Xfinity showed up anywhere in the guide data. It would be nice if that was added to the new app.


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## TostitoBandito

Good riddance, that on-demand app has been garbage and next to useless for years anyways. Especially when you can get most/all of the same content in higher quality and in a better interface in various other streaming apps. Especially movie rentals and whatnot, which was the main reason I ever used it in the past.

Now, can you and Comcast work something out so we can actually use the HBO Go app on our Tivos? That would be nice. It was hypothesized a while back that the on-demand app was the reason they didn't want Tivo customers to have access to it, so now that it's gone maybe they can stop being giant ***holes about it.


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## filovirus

I didn’t often use Comcast VOD, but it was handy for those channel they refuse to authenticate via Roku/AppleTV apps. Since my comcast bill is $200 per month, I am seriously considering getting my Roamio OTA out of the basement and cutting out TV service all together. Apple TV/Roku seems like a better option going forward.


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## ajwees41

TostitoBandito said:


> Good riddance, that on-demand app has been garbage and next to useless for years anyways. Especially when you can get most/all of the same content in higher quality and in a better interface in various other streaming apps. Especially movie rentals and whatnot, which was the main reason I ever used it in the past.
> 
> Now, can you and Comcast work something out so we can actually use the HBO Go app on our Tivos? That would be nice. It was hypothesized a while back that the on-demand app was the reason they didn't want Tivo customers to have access to it, so now that it's gone maybe they can stop being giant ***holes about it.


 comcast would have to deal with timewarner for that.


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## TostitoBandito

ajwees41 said:


> comcast would have to deal with timewarner for that.


Why would HBO/Time Warner have any stake in it? I can already access HBO Go on every other device I have. It's just the Tivo which Comcast specifically forbids, since you get an error saying as much if you try to activate HBO Go on a Tivo with Comcast as your provider of HBO access. If you have any other cable provider it works, so it can't be any concern with Tivo like copy protection or anything like that. The only reason I can think of why Comcast would have an interest in banning HBO Go on Tivo devices is because Tivo is sort of a competitor and they want to drive you to their own on-demand services for HBO content (which are now going away on Tivo). But other cable companies don't do this, so I don't get it. It makes no sense.


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## cwerdna

Bummer but not a huge loss. I didn't make that much use of it anyway.

I mainly only used it when there were free HBO previews to watch some of their content like Westworld. The rest of the time, I don't even launch it. I sure as heck don't plan on paying for an content thru that app and never have.


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## sushikitten

Can someone tell me how this will affect me since I'm not understanding any of this thus far? 

The only time I really use Xfinity on demand through TiVo is if I need an episode of a current show. I go to the show listing and then choose "other" (I think, I don't use it that often to remember) and then choose VOD (or sometimes Prime, etc.).

Is this what's affected? If so, I assume I'll still be able to access VOD through Xfinity itself?

Separately, I saw mention recently that Xfinity has some new VOD something coming and it tested our system and said it wouldn't work and we'd need... something new? I didn't think too much about it. Is that related?


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## PSU_Sudzi

sushikitten said:


> Can someone tell me how this will affect me since I'm not understanding any of this thus far?
> 
> The only time I really use Xfinity on demand through TiVo is if I need an episode of a current show. I go to the show listing and then choose "other" (I think, I don't use it that often to remember) and then choose VOD (or sometimes Prime, etc.).
> 
> Is this what's affected? If so, I assume I'll still be able to access VOD through Xfinity itself?
> 
> Separately, I saw mention recently that Xfinity has some new VOD something coming and it tested our system and said it wouldn't work and we'd need... something new? I didn't think too much about it. Is that related?


You will not be able to view any VOD content from Xfinity on your TiVo after the app is discontinued.


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## sushikitten

Thank you. I thought it was that simple but my brain couldn't make sense of that through everything else.


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## pgoelz

Something sounds fishy. If VOD is being removed "because it runs on an old server"......... why not just put it on a new server????? If it is being replaced by something better, that is cool. But not if the existing app is removed BEFORE a replacement is ready.

Sorry, as a paying customer, I am NOT PLEASED. And ESPECIALLY not if it will be replaced by an "ad supported" platform where (I assume) the ads cannot be skipped. That is after all one of the prime reasons we own and pay monthly for a Tivo instead of the Comcast STB. That, and the fact that we don't lose Comcast VOD with the Tivo.

Paul


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## pdhenry

Please make the eventual replacement app available on the legacy UI, not just TiVo Experience 4.


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## PSU_Sudzi

pdhenry said:


> Please make the eventual replacement app available on the legacy UI, not just TiVo Experience 4.


This would be my hope too but it's been indicated by TiVo Ted that the old UI is essentially dead to updates non critical.


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## DeltaOne

pgoelz said:


> And ESPECIALLY not if it will be replaced by an "ad supported" platform where (I assume) the ads cannot be skipped


Much of OnDemand today has ads that can't be skipped. In my experience, sometimes fast forward works, sometimes it doesn't.

Don't be mad a TiVo...surely this is taking place because of Comcast...not TiVo.


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## rfryar

So what recourse do we have for things like HBO on demand? Xfinity refuses to allow the HBO Go to authenticate on the Tivo, so while I do not care much about the core Comcast VOD features, it is the only way for me to easily watch HBO On Demand. Anyone have any other ideas? I suppose I will need to dust off Play On and live with 720p resolution.


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## krkaufman

Message received on my Mini whose host DVR has a Comcast CableCARD:


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## WVZR1

If the Xfinity 'stream' BETA option is used on ROKU, VOD I believe should still work. I used it BUT I couldn't get HD versions until I paid the HD FEE on my billing. If you're invoiced for HD Service & have a ROKU it might be an interesting time to actually try it. I've moved to L3TV (now T-Vision) but I do miss having the TiVo functionality (always available if Internet is down). I've had L3TV for nearly one year and I'm quite pleased. I've a Roamio and a couple Mini that I either need to put back to work or sell.

I've wanted to ask if anyone with a ROKU has had success using Xfinity ROKU.

I actually don't believe I tried the VOD using the Stream BETA - it's been nearly a year!


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## TostitoBandito

rfryar said:


> So what recourse do we have for things like HBO on demand? Xfinity refuses to allow the HBO Go to authenticate on the Tivo, so while I do not care much about the core Comcast VOD features, it is the only way for me to easily watch HBO On Demand. Anyone have any other ideas? I suppose I will need to dust off Play On and live with 720p resolution.


Yeah this is why I posted about that earlier in this thread. Right now your only option is to use HBO Go on another device, like a game console, Fire Stick, Roku, etc... It's completely ridiculous that for whatever reason Comcast and Tivo can't sort this out and are hosing a large portion of their customers as a result.


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## sbachman

I complained to Comcast and to the Michigan Public Service Commission today. We'll see if anything comes of it, but I'm not holding my breath...
It seems to me that if Comcast is going to essentially take away VoD from Tivo CableCARD users, then they should provide a monthly credit for the value of that bundled service, until a replacement app is delivered.


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## NashGuy

rfryar said:


> So what recourse do we have for things like HBO on demand? Xfinity refuses to allow the HBO Go to authenticate on the Tivo, so while I do not care much about the core Comcast VOD features, it is the only way for me to easily watch HBO On Demand. Anyone have any other ideas? I suppose I will need to dust off Play On and live with 720p resolution.


My advice would be to spend $30 on a Roku Express (or $40 on Roku Premiere if you need 4K HDR; or $49 if you want one with a voice remote). Not only does Xfinity support the HBO Go app on Roku, they also support Roku as a full-fledged stand-in for a Comcast cable box through their Xfinity Stream app for Roku.


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## krkaufman

NashGuy said:


> Not only does Xfinity support the HBO Go app on Roku, they also support Roku as a full-fledged stand-in for a Comcast cable box through their Xfinity Stream app for Roku.


Any additional outlet charge, yet, for the Xfinity Roku app? (HD Tech Fee requirement will already be a bump in cost.)


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## fpccsvb

pgoelz said:


> Something sounds fishy. If VOD is being removed "because it runs on an old server"......... why not just put it on a new server????? If it is being replaced by something better, that is cool. But not if the existing app is removed BEFORE a replacement is ready.
> 
> Sorry, as a paying customer, I am NOT PLEASED. And ESPECIALLY not if it will be replaced by an "ad supported" platform where (I assume) the ads cannot be skipped. That is after all one of the prime reasons we own and pay monthly for a Tivo instead of the Comcast STB. That, and the fact that we don't lose Comcast VOD with the Tivo.
> 
> Paul


Yeah, honestly, it's kind of lame. If they are unsupported, well, you should have known about it ages ago and addressed it. Also, it's not that unusual for apps to run on unsupported OS versions, and you can pay the company to support it regardless. They should have seen this coming ages ago, and addressed it.


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## NashGuy

krkaufman said:


> Any additional outlet charge, yet, for the Xfinity Roku app? (HD Tech Fee requirement will already be a bump in cost.)


I can't tell you for sure what Comcast will do for existing customers who use a Roku as a substitute for a STB, although, AFAIK, they're not charging anything.

What I can tell you for sure is that for new TV customers who sign up online, Comcast gives the option to not rent any STBs at all from them and instead acknowledge that you will exclusively use the Xfinity Stream app on your own devices. There's no additional charge for using that app. If you wish to rent STBs, the cost is $5 per box per month.


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## morac

WVZR1 said:


> If the Xfinity 'stream' BETA option is used on ROKU, VOD I believe should still work. I used it BUT I couldn't get HD versions until I paid the HD FEE on my billing. If you're invoiced for HD Service & have a ROKU it might be an interesting time to actually try it. I've moved to L3TV (now T-Vision) but I do miss having the TiVo functionality (always available if Internet is down). I've had L3TV for nearly one year and I'm quite pleased. I've a Roamio and a couple Mini that I either need to put back to work or sell.
> 
> I've wanted to ask if anyone with a ROKU has had success using Xfinity ROKU.
> 
> I actually don't believe I tried the VOD using the Stream BETA - it's been nearly a year!


As I posted earlier, my current "double play" contract includes HD without the HD fee and I tried the Xfinity 'stream' BETA Roku app yesterday to play On Demand and it worked fine. That's fine for people who a) have a Roku and b) have HD service. Otherwise people will have to use the Xfinity Stream web site or tablet/phone.

Basically there are a few options:

*Use Roku or Samsung TV Xfinity beta app* - This allows full access to the VOD library on a TV. Free while in Beta, but eventually will cost money. Restricted to SD unless you pay for or get HD service.
https://www.xfinity.com/stream/- Comcast's Stream web site which includes VOD content.
Table/phone version of Xfinity Stream app.
Network app on another device.


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## Robin

I don't use VOD so I don't care about the change.

BUT has anyone had any luck getting a discount from Comcast over the dropped service?


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## Diana Collins

pgoelz said:


> Something sounds fishy. If VOD is being removed "because it runs on an old server"......... why not just put it on a new server????? If it is being replaced by something better, that is cool. But not if the existing app is removed BEFORE a replacement is ready.
> 
> Sorry, as a paying customer, I am NOT PLEASED. And ESPECIALLY not if it will be replaced by an "ad supported" platform where (I assume) the ads cannot be skipped. That is after all one of the prime reasons we own and pay monthly for a Tivo instead of the Comcast STB. That, and the fact that we don't lose Comcast VOD with the Tivo.
> 
> Paul


The explanation is in Ted's original post:


TiVo_Ted said:


> This is because the VOD application was written on top of TiVo's old HME architecture which we no longer use now that HTML5 has taken off.


As I recall, HME apps ran on a PC and the TiVo attached to them for display, but the 'app' ran on the PC - not an easily scalable architecture. HME has long since been discontinued by TiVo (last update was over 10 years ago), and since Comcast has embraced IP delivery it is much simpler to just write an Xfinity app for the TiVo itself. Maintenance of this solution was no doubt costly (HME apps tended to be fragile) and, combined with the difficulty of porting to a more modern OS, likely lead to this decision.


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## Dan203

NashGuy said:


> I'm wondering if this new app will just be the same Xfinity Stream app that they have on Roku and Samsung smart TVs and which Comcast has said will spread to additional platforms in 2019.


I'm betting it does. The way they do it now, using QAM, is a waste of resources. I wouldn't be surprised if they switched all VOD to IP, not just for TiVo but for all of their leased boxes as well.


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## Dan203

Could you guys also try working with Charter/Spectrum to bring a VOD app? I would love to access the VOD content they have available in my area, but using their box to do it is a PITA so I never actually do. If it were an app on my TiVo I'd use it a lot more often.


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## chiguy50

morac said:


> As I posted earlier, my current "double play" contract includes HD without the HD fee and I tried the Xfinity 'stream' BETA Roku app yesterday to play On Demand and it worked fine. That's fine for people who a) have a Roku and b) have HD server. Otherwise people will have to use the Xfinity Stream web site or tablet/phone.
> 
> Basically there are a few options:
> 
> *Use Roku or Samsung TV Xfinity beta app* - This allows full access to the VOD library on a TV. Free while in Beta, but eventually will cost money. Restricted to SD unless you pay for or get HD service.
> https://www.xfinity.com/stream/- Comcast's Stream web site which includes VOD content.
> Table/phone version of Xfinity Stream app.
> Network app on another device.


I was going to post a similar comment regarding the alternatives, but you covered the bases better than I could have done.

Also, one useful feature of the XoD app beyond accessing shows that you may have failed to record and that are not currently (re)airing, is that you can sometimes find additional features not available via the cable channel. For instance, several HBO series, including _Barry_ and _Insecure_, routinely add a short featurette at the end of the VOD selection with commentary or background material about the episode.


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## krkaufman

chiguy50 said:


> For instance, several HBO series, including _Barry_ and _Insecure_, routinely add a short featurette at the end of the VOD selection with commentary or background material about the episode.


That reminds me, I need to finish watching all the behind the scenes videos from this season's Thrones ... before I lose access through XOD4TiVo.


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## giomania

morac said:


> As I posted earlier, my current "double play" contract includes HD without the HD fee and I tried the Xfinity 'stream' BETA Roku app yesterday to play On Demand and it worked fine. That's fine for people who a) have a Roku and b) have HD server. Otherwise people will have to use the Xfinity Stream web site or tablet/phone.
> 
> Basically there are a few options:
> 
> *Use Roku or Samsung TV Xfinity beta app* - This allows full access to the VOD library on a TV. Free while in Beta, but eventually will cost money. Restricted to SD unless you pay for or get HD service.
> https://www.xfinity.com/stream/- Comcast's Stream web site which includes VOD content.
> Table/phone version of Xfinity Stream app.
> Network app on another device.


Do all these options that (I assume) use the Internet count against the data cap?

Thanks.

Mark

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## WVZR1

My interest was only this. - If a person wanted to see a particular 'feature/program/VOD event' then perhaps using even the Xfinity 'streaming' in Roku I'd think you'd gain likely the 'higher resolution' of that 'feature/event etc' vs QAM. For the added resolution/PQ maybe the newer VOD a pretty good option.

Comcast/Xfinity seems to be interested in an offer to me that might be very useful for maybe a couple years. If the VOD is going away end of June then maybe I wait until 7/01 and see if I can gather a 'CableCard' for a 30 day trial.

L3TV is interesting - The day a VOD becomes available the option 'populates' in the same DVR menu so you have a choice. Generally it's a 9 - 17 minute shorter event. Using my Roamio & Mini(s) for 1 or 2 years. likely nets me more than a sale of it. L3TV doesn't have a timed recording capability and other TiVo features BUT 'FOR SURE' PQ is there.

L3TV = No Internet NO TV/DVR!! It's been an interesting 11 months.

***DATA Caps for me are of no concern.


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## morac

Robin said:


> I don't use VOD so I don't care about the change.
> 
> BUT has anyone had any luck getting a discount from Comcast over the dropped service?


I doubt Comcast would give you a discount, but they'd be happy to upsell you to using one of their X1 boxes to get VoD.



giomania said:


> Do all these options that (I assume) use the Internet count against the data cap?


For the Roku Samsung stream beta app, the answer is no. See last question at Xfinity Stream App on Xfinity TV Partner Devices FAQs.

For all the other methods, the answer is yes.


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## giomania

morac said:


> I doubt Comcast would give you a discount, but they'd be happy to upsell you to using one of their X1 boxes to get VoD.
> 
> For the Roku Samsung stream beta app, the answer is no. See last question at Xfinity Stream App on Xfinity TV Partner Devices FAQs.
> 
> For all the other methods, the answer is yes.


Thanks so much for the response. It looks like the TCL Roku TV's are not currently supported.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## funchefchick

I got this popup today and I'm enraged. I use XOD ALL THE DAMN TIME and I'm furious at Comcast for the millionth goddamn thing. Grrrr. I'm seriously going to go look at cutting the cord at along last. 

(Sidebar: I'm disabled, I spend a lot of time at home and internet and video entertainment are both pretty important. I've been paying a ton of money to Comcast over the years because of movie channels and access to a variety of channels. But they have consistently been terrible and expensive. I'm worried about not being able to manage the complexity of getting high speed internet AND a big collection of channels/pay channels. But I'm also in the beginning stages of building a new house and I would *love* to plan ahead for how to have all of my services Comcast-FREE for the foreseeable future. !)

Seriously, Comcast? You suck. So, so much. If anyone has helpful/for dummies-level guidance on cutting the cord . .. send it my way. !


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## pdhenry

giomania said:


> Thanks so much for the response. It looks like the TCL Roku TV's are not currently supported.


Linked from that page I found this info:

The Xfinity Stream Beta app is available on the following Roku device models:

The Roku 5XXX, 6XXX, 7XXX and 8XXX series TVs
Many TCL Roku TVs are 5000 series (although mine is a 3000 series).


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## HerronScott

TiVo_Ted said:


> TiVo and Comcast are actively working together on a plan to bring a more modern Xfinity application to TiVo customers. I can't give you any more details on that now, but stay tuned. In the meantime, there are several other applications on TiVo that may fill the gap in the interim


Just got a letter from Comcast on this today and came to post about it.

Very sorry to see it go although I did not use it that often. Mostly used it for any show issues and occasionally for HBO movies. I too would like to see Comcast allow sign in to HBO Go now from our TiVo's since this method of getting to HBO on-demand content is going away.



pdhenry said:


> Please make the eventual replacement app available on the legacy UI, not just TiVo Experience 4.


A big vote for this here as well even though I understand that development has ended for TE3.

Scott


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## pdhenry

HerronScott said:


> A big vote for this here as well even though I understand that development has ended for TE3.


If I want it badly enough I'll just stick a wireless keyboard/mouse on a Raspberry Pi and connect it to the TV & use the browser.


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## giomania

pdhenry said:


> Linked from that page I found this info:
> 
> The Xfinity Stream Beta app is available on the following Roku device models:
> 
> The Roku 5XXX, 6XXX, 7XXX and 8XXX series TVs
> Many TCL Roku TVs are 5000 series (although mine is a 3000 series).


Thanks.

I saw that and paused for a minute thinking that could be my TCL 65R617 TV, but then seemed to remember that Roku actually had Roku branded TV's?

It's easy enough to check to see if it's available.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Bigg

morac said:


> My educated guess would be the later as that's how the Roku and Samsung TV apps work and Comcast is already trying to get rid of legacy boxes so why would they have a third party implementing a new app use a system they are trying to retire. My understanding is that the IP system doesn't count towards your Internet cap (if you have one), but it does require Xfinity Internet.


So it sounds like you're saying it's actually TiVo's control of QAM VOD, but Comcast knows it's going away in the next few years, so they're just replacing the one that's being retired?



sbachman said:


> I complained to Comcast and to the Michigan Public Service Commission today. We'll see if anything comes of it, but I'm not holding my breath...
> It seems to me that if Comcast is going to essentially take away VoD from Tivo CableCARD users, then they should provide a monthly credit for the value of that bundled service, until a replacement app is delivered.


Not going anywhere. Comcast is not required to provide VOD to TiVo users, they chose to offer it, and they can choose to not offer it. They already provide a credit for CableCard users of $2.50/mo.


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## funchefchick

Bigg said:


> So it sounds like you're saying it's actually TiVo's control of QAM VOD, but Comcast knows it's going away in the next few years, so they're just replacing the one that's being retired?
> 
> Not going anywhere. Comcast is not required to provide VOD to TiVo users, they chose to offer it, and they can choose to not offer it. They already provide a credit for CableCard users of $2.50/mo.


Hold up there - where are they providing a credit to CableCard users? I sure haven't seen it.


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## NashGuy

morac said:


> Basically there are a few options:
> 
> *Use Roku or Samsung TV Xfinity beta app* - This allows full access to the VOD library on a TV. Free while in Beta, but eventually will cost money. Restricted to SD unless you pay for or get HD service.
> https://www.xfinity.com/stream/- Comcast's Stream web site which includes VOD content.
> Table/phone version of Xfinity Stream app.
> Network app on another device.


Months (years?) ago when Comcast first rolled out the Stream app for Roku, it was rumored that they would eventually charge for it but that it wasn't a sure thing. I'm not sure if that was based on something Comcast had officially stated or info that had leaked out. But at any rate, they were supposedly "evaluating" how and if they'd eventually price it.

Their new pricing scheme for new TV customers strongly suggests to me that they're not ever going to charge for usage of the Stream app on any device for any customer. Although I would expect that they eventually (if not already) enforce some sort of rule about the number of concurrent streams allowed to the Stream app, at least when being used on a device away from your Comcast home network.

Given that their new STBs are inexpensive IPTV streamers (essentially Comcast's version of a Roku) and only cost $5/mo to rent, I don't think Comcast is super-concerned about whether you rent their cheap box or use your own box to watch their service on your big screens.


----------



## pdhenry

Yes, but the $2.50 credit reflects that TiVo users own the tuning equipment while the published subscription rates assume that the tuning equipment is rented from Comcast.

But your bigger point is that there is no government mandate to provide VOD, only the linear channels in one's lineup. It only fairly recently appeared on TiVos.


----------



## rfryar

pdhenry said:


> But your bigger point is that there is no government mandate to provide VOD, only the linear channels in one's lineup. It only fairly recently appeared on TiVos.


But the one thing Xfinityis actively doing is blocking HBO Go on the Tivo. With out using the computer, play on, some other device I can not access HBO Go since they, Xfinity, is deciding not to allow that device to activate. No real reason, just deciding they do not want to support it.

Can I use a Roku, yes. Do I want to fiddle with changing inputs, buying new devices, having multiple remotes or a unwieldy universal remote. Not really. That is why I have a device that can do everything, granted some things TiVo is not the best at using, but it does work. 
So I will probably vote with my pocketbook if there are not more substantial information about the Xfinity Stream coming to the Tivo.

I called Xfinity today and it took 3 transfers to get to someone that even knew anything about VOD or HBO Go. They said they would let me know something with in a month for the future state. Time will tell.


----------



## funchefchick

rfryar said:


> But the one thing Xfinityis actively doing is blocking HBO Go on the Tivo. With out using the computer, play on, some other device I can not access HBO Go since they, Xfinity, is deciding not to allow that device to activate. No real reason, just deciding they do not want to support it.
> 
> Can I use a Roku, yes. Do I want to fiddle with changing inputs, buying new devices, having multiple remotes or a unwieldy universal remote. Not really. That is why I have a device that can do everything, granted some things TiVo is not the best at using, but it does work.
> So I will probably vote with my pocketbook if there are not more substantial information about the Xfinity Stream coming to the Tivo.
> 
> I called Xfinity today and it took 3 transfers to get to someone that even knew anything about VOD or HBO Go. They said they would let me know something with in a month for the future state. Time will tell.


I was able to reach someone right away by tweeting a complaint @Comcast. Not sure if it will go anywhere . . . .I would very much like to find a non-Comcast alternative. !


----------



## pdhenry

funchefchick said:


> . . .I would very much like to find a non-Comcast alternative. !


For HBO on your TiVo, Amazon Prime is a non-Comcast alternative. You'll pay $14.99/month for HBO on top of Prime, but that's probably about how much you're playing Comcast.


----------



## NashGuy

giomania said:


> Do all these options that (I assume) use the Internet count against the data cap?


From what I've read, I think the rule is this: if you're streaming through the Xfinity Stream app on any device ON YOUR HOME NETWORK SERVED BY COMCAST INTERNET, then that does NOT count toward Comcast's 1TB data cap because the IP stream that Comcast provides is not going out over the open internet but staying completely within Comcast's managed network. Basically, Comcast is saying that it's IPTV rather than OTT.

However, if you stream anything through their app while away from home, then that's OTT and going to (obviously) count against whatever usage you have from your cellular provider (or the broadband data cap that your friend has if you're streaming over his wifi network). Also, note that you probably won't have access to your full set of live channels inside the Stream app if you're using it while away from your home network.


----------



## Yuterald

TiVo_Ted said:


> In the meantime, there are several other applications on TiVo that may fill the gap in the interim.


Got my letter today and I am not pleased. I use VOD a lot so what will "fill the gap"? Is there an App that I can use on my TiVo that also has access to the Xfinity VOD App?


----------



## NashGuy

funchefchick said:


> I would very much like to find a non-Comcast alternative. !


I don't mind helping you if you want to provide me with some basic info. (You can just send it to me as a private message to my Inbox on this website if you like. Or if you don't care about others seeing it, just reply here.) I'd need to know the following:

your zip code
which companies (besides Comcast) provide home internet service at your address (If you don't know, that's OK.)
which are your absolute "must-have" TV channels and what are your "I'd like 'em but I could live without 'em" channels


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## NashGuy

Yuterald said:


> Got my letter today and I am not pleased. I use VOD a lot so what will "fill the gap"? Is there an App that I can use on my TiVo that also has access to the Xfinity VOD App?


No. But Xfinity is working on a replacement app for TiVo. No word on when it might arrive yet.


----------



## Yuterald

NashGuy said:


> No. But Xfinity is working on a replacement app for TiVo. No word on when it might arrive yet.


 Thanks..."NashGuy" eh? Either a fan of the old show...or my guess is you're in Nashville, TN? If so - howdy neighbor: that's where I live.


----------



## slowbiscuit

TiVo_Ted said:


> TiVo and Comcast are actively working together on a plan to bring a more modern Xfinity application to TiVo customers. I can't give you any more details on that now, but stay tuned. In the meantime, there are several other applications on TiVo that may fill the gap in the interim.


What I really don't get here is why XOD is going away in a month (that I'm sure you knew about long ago) without a Tivo app replacement. Y'all have had PLENTY of time to get this done, but yet again Tivo apps are MIA. Now you just say sorry, go buy Rokus.

My guess is that the lawsuits have had something to do with Tivo not having access to Comcast IPTV. Failing that, it's the usual Tivo way late to the party nonsense.


----------



## krkaufman

NashGuy said:


> No. But Xfinity is working on a replacement app for TiVo. No word on when it might arrive yet.


... or if it ever will. There's no certainty that a replacement will make it to our TiVo boxes.


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## KevTech

Bigg said:


> Comcast is not required to provide VOD to TiVo users, they chose to offer it, and they can choose to not offer it.


I would think they are required if it is part of the features of the TV package.

Here are the details for digital starter, preferred and premier that Comcast offers.


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## jpeden

rfryar said:


> But the one thing Xfinityis actively doing is blocking HBO Go on the Tivo. With out using the computer, play on, some other device I can not access HBO Go since they, Xfinity, is deciding not to allow that device to activate. No real reason, just deciding they do not want to support it.


Anyone else try activating the HBO Go app on xfinity after getting the pop up about VOD being discontinued? On a whim I thought I would try again just for the hell of it, and suddenly it went through and paired my Bolt with the device code just the way it should. Been enjoying the much nicer interface to HBO content for a few hours now.


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## dmk1974

This is a bummer. Hopefully they will have a better app come back to TiVo boxes. So much more convenient not to have to flip over to a different device for the Xfinity VOD.

I do have 2 Roku sticks that I haven't used much lately as well as a TCL 55" with Roku built in. Sounds like I may be able to use that (what used to be buggy) Xfinity Stream Beta app for VOD and it will NOT count against my 1 TB monthly data cap? If so, I'd be willing to try that as an alternative.


----------



## inaka

This sucks.
I use On Demand all the time and just came here after seeing the message on my Tivo.

On Demand is especially useful when you hear about a new show and want to marathon past seasons. It's also helpful when your Tivo guide data messes up and cuts off a show short, or the cable acts up and digitally goes on the fritz (rare but happens) or doesn't record a show altogether due to a foul up in the guide data. I would then use On Demand as a backup to view something that was missed, etc. 

So users who only have Tivos can't access On Demand and the excuse is that the software is too old, yet they have no replacement?
This answer seems fishy to say the least.

So if one doesn't want to buy a Roku, what is another solution for Tivo customers to view On Demand content?
Is there a way to do it with Apple TV?

This also means more of an effect on network traffic and data caps when watching "TV" if we're forced to use a streaming app. Argh. 

Again, this sucks and the explanation seems incredibly fishy.


----------



## rfryar

jpeden said:


> Anyone else try activating the HBO Go app on xfinity after getting the pop up about VOD being discontinued? On a whim I thought I would try again just for the hell of it, and suddenly it went through and paired my Bolt with the device code just the way it should. Been enjoying the much nicer interface to HBO content for a few hours now.


I tried right away after getting the message, does not work for me in MN. Tried again a few minutes ago just in case, and same thing. What part of the country are you in so I can have that information next time I call.


----------



## davahad

jpeden said:


> Anyone else try activating the HBO Go app on xfinity after getting the pop up about VOD being discontinued? On a whim I thought I would try again just for the hell of it, and suddenly it went through and paired my Bolt with the device code just the way it should. Been enjoying the much nicer interface to HBO content for a few hours now.


Tried and would not activate.

Device Not Supported
Sorry, your TV provider doesn't support HBO GO on this device


----------



## inaka

jpeden said:


> Anyone else try activating the HBO Go app on xfinity after getting the pop up about VOD being discontinued? On a whim I thought I would try again just for the hell of it, and suddenly it went through and paired my Bolt with the device code just the way it should. Been enjoying the much nicer interface to HBO content for a few hours now.


No go here.










This is with my Tivo Premiere XL4


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## pdhenry

KevTech said:


> I would think they are required if it is part of the features of the TV package.


The FCC CableCard mandate only includes linear channels, not VOD, but when the Roku app comes out of Beta, Comcast becomes exempt from the CableCard mandate altogether.

Another observation: if you've been able to avoid paying Comcast's $10 HD fee, the Roku app will only get SD channels, even though your TiVo will tune HD channels. If you do pay the HD fee the Roku will receive HD and SD channels. I haven't looked at what Comcast VOD you can get with the Roku.


----------



## dcarl

I'm real interested in the details of the last post. The only reason I would consider buying a ROKU would be to continue getting HD content on VOD, but I have to ask is it only HBO or any of the premium channels you currently subscribe to that you'd have access to?


----------



## Rawson819

pdhenry said:


> ...when the Roku app comes out of Beta, Comcast becomes exempt from the CableCard mandate altogether.


This is interesting, can you explain further? Thanks!


----------



## tommage1

Chicago seems to be where Comcast "tests" things first. When they were moving to MPEG4 Chicago was the first I think, they did NBC, my HD recordings went from 7-8GB per hour to under 2GB per hour. I checked here, most still reported NBC was MPEG2 and still 7-8GB at the time. Most channels are MPEG4 now in Chicago and I think only one 1080i left, CBS, it is one of the few MPEG2 stations left. Now the VOD going away on June 26th I think, at least in Chicago. But even worse, if you try to order new service you can no longer order digital starter, the 140 channel package with a DVR. They have a "new" package with 120 or so channels and I think it is strictly IPTV. I don't THINK you can order new service with a cable card or even hard drive type Comcast DVR. A relative who took a 2 year cable card/Tivo "digital starter" package has been getting offers to "upgrade" to X1. The no cable card type, ie no more Tivo. So we shall see, as I said I think Chicago first for Comcast testing, wonder if my relative's 2 year package will hold up, I think any cable card device with Comcast will be gone fairly soon, maybe less than 2 years, maybe sooner. I would not be buying any lifetime cable only Tivos if I was a Comcast customer.....................


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## pdhenry

Rawson819 said:


> This is interesting, can you explain further? Thanks!


Give me a minute, I'll look it up (I should bookmark it). The CableCARD mandate starts by saying that if a cable company makes their programming available on a customer-owned device not sold by the cable company without use of a CableCARD they don't have to support or issue cable cards, they're completely exempt from the requirement. I interpret the Roku beta as potentially meeting that requirement.

Edit: OK, the interesting language is in 47 CFR, par 76.1204, titled "Availability of equipment performing conditional access or security functions."

The first paragraph in this regulation is *the* "CableCARD mandate."

(a)
(1) A multichannel video programming distributor that utilizes Navigation Devices to perform conditional access functions shall make available equipment that incorporates only the conditional access functions of such devices.​The second paragraph provides the means for a waiver:

(2) The foregoing requirement shall not apply to a multichannel video programming distributor that supports the active use by subscribers of Navigation Devices that:
(i) Operate throughout the continental United States, and
(ii) Are available from retail outlets and other vendors throughout the United States that are not affiliated with the owner or operator of the multichannel video programming system.​
If you're into it, the detailed requirements for CableCARD support appear in the next section, 47 CFR par 76.1205, CableCARD support (which begins by saying in essence, if you're subject to 1204, here are more details about how you need to make it easy for a customer to obtain and use cableCARDs). Also dictates a discount for renting just a cableCARD if the subscription fee normally provides a STB.


----------



## NashGuy

Yuterald said:


> Thanks..."NashGuy" eh? Either a fan of the old show...or my guess is you're in Nashville, TN? If so - howdy neighbor: that's where I live.


We're neighbors. ;-)


----------



## mattack

reneg said:


> Never liked the no FF capability in Xfinity VOD.


To be absolutely clear, that is by channel, or by show.. Some things DO/did let you FF/REW in VOD. Even past commercials. (The latency is so bad it's a pain to use.) A&E is one I seem to remember you COULD FF, even past commercials.

Though there also were bugs.. on some network shows, it seems like you could FF at the VERY beginning, even past commercials.. but it would kick you out of VOD or not work the next time you tried to VOD (telling you the normal FF not supported message).


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## mattack

pgoelz said:


> Sorry, as a paying customer, I am NOT PLEASED. And ESPECIALLY not if it will be replaced by an "ad supported" platform where (I assume) the ads cannot be skipped. That is after all one of the prime reasons we own and pay monthly for a Tivo instead of the Comcast STB. That, and the fact that we don't lose Comcast VOD with the Tivo.


Umm, ads already can't be skipped on a LARGE portion (e.g. broadcast network shows) of shows.. yes, I did post another message here about some shows that do let you skip ads.

again, I am not happy either, and I *do/did* use it mostly for a preempted/delayed/etc. show (I wish it also had Jeopardy!, one of the few shows that IS preempted/moved a lot)... just trying to correct the situation a bit.


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## mattack

rfryar said:


> So what recourse do we have for things like HBO on demand?


HBO Go Airplayed to an Apple TV.. (or did they turn off AirPlay)?


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## samccfl99

jpeden said:


> Anyone else try activating the HBO Go app on xfinity after getting the pop up about VOD being discontinued? On a whim I thought I would try again just for the hell of it, and suddenly it went through and paired my Bolt with the device code just the way it should. Been enjoying the much nicer interface to HBO content for a few hours now.


Really? This person made people go on a wild goose chase? ME TOO. Come on...

*So *if any of you believe that there will be a replacement "soon", I got a bridge for you.

When I got my Tivo years ago and they went to the "new" XOD interface, the PG UP/DN did not do a back or forth 5 minute skip, like the Comcast boxes always did for years. I talked to L2 support and they did report it to L3, but it was between Tivo and Comcast. Anyway it was useless. Nothing got done. I never found out if their interface was dropping out the remote code or what (as if it matters, but that was one of my theories). Such A SIMPLE thing to find and fix (former programmer here).

So I am not happy about this either. I use it in emergencies (maybe like when the Guide F's up or live event delays, etc) or just to troll around HBO and the free movies.

BOO-HOO.

PS...and if anyone thinks they can get Comcast to listen to you, they will first have to find the department you could complain to WHICH DOES NOT EXIST...

Oh, I should also say that people who have TV's that can support Screen Mirroring from their phone, well they are lucky. Now that would work.


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## slowbiscuit

pdhenry said:


> Another observation: if you've been able to avoid paying Comcast's $10 HD fee, the Roku app will only get SD channels, even though your TiVo will tune HD channels. If you do pay the HD fee the Roku will receive HD and SD channels. I haven't looked at what Comcast VOD you can get with the Roku.


Not true in all areas, we don't pay the fee here and get all HD.


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## giomania

pdhenry said:


> For HBO on your TiVo, Amazon Prime is a non-Comcast alternative. You'll pay $14.99/month for HBO on top of Prime, but that's probably about how much you're playing Comcast.


Do you then access HBO via the Amazon Prime app or via HBO Now? I am not sure what apps are on the TiVo.

One benefit for doing this: ~5 Mb/s data rate for MPEG4 Internet delivery (HBO Go) vs ~4 Mb/s data rate for MPEG2 QAM where I am.

I learned about this on AVS Forum when everyone was complaining about the Game of Thrones quality. It was absolutely horrific.

One problem with doing this is the internet delivery counts against your data cap.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## giomania

slowbiscuit said:


> Not true in all areas, we don't pay the fee here and get all HD.


My HD Technology fee disappeared when I turned in the Comcast DVR my mom was using

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## pdhenry

slowbiscuit said:


> Not true in all areas, we don't pay the fee here and get all HD.


On the Roku app?

I get HD channels on my TiVo without the fee; my only issue is on the Roku app.


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## morac

Bigg said:


> So it sounds like you're saying it's actually TiVo's control of QAM VOD, but Comcast knows it's going away in the next few years, so they're just replacing the one that's being retired?


I'm saying that none of the other third party boxes (or partner boxes as Comcast calls them) use QAM at all, be it for VOD or Live TV. If Tivo has to implement a new app, it would make a lot more sense to do it the same way Roku and Samsung have already done and use IP. Comcast wants to switch to IPTV eventually so if Tivo uses that for VOD they are future proofing things.



NashGuy said:


> Months (years?) ago when Comcast first rolled out the Stream app for Roku, it was rumored that they would eventually charge for it but that it wasn't a sure thing. I'm not sure if that was based on something Comcast had officially stated or info that had leaked out. But at any rate, they were supposedly "evaluating" how and if they'd eventually price it.
> 
> Their new pricing scheme for new TV customers strongly suggests to me that they're not ever going to charge for usage of the Stream app on any device for any customer. Although I would expect that they eventually (if not already) enforce some sort of rule about the number of concurrent streams allowed to the Stream app, at least when being used on a device away from your Comcast home network.


Comcast currently does not charge an extra outlet fee for the Stream app on Roku because it's in beta. Their FAQ says eventually the app will be treated the same as any other box. Comcast includes one outlet with their service so if all you have is the Roku app and no other boxes or cable cards you won't pay anything extra. If you have more than one or another box you'll pay the outlet fee minus the customer owned credit.

Basically it's the same as how it works with a TiVo box. The big difference is that Comcast isn't loaning you anything, not even a cablecard. The charge is simply a way of charging per TV like cable used to in the olden days.

Their FAQ says cable TV customers can stream to 5 apps at the same time, which includes table and phone apps, but the Roku and Samsung apps cannot be used outside your home. They tie it to your cable modem somehow.


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## pdhenry

giomania said:


> My HD Technology fee disappeared when I turned in the Comcast DVR my mom was using


It used to be just about impossible to get it removed once it appeared.


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## giomania

pdhenry said:


> It used to be just about impossible to get it removed once it appeared.


Yeah they called multiple times before turning in the DVR and ask if it would disappear if it was tied the DVR and I would get a different story every time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## pdhenry

pdhenry said:


> On the Roku app?
> 
> I get HD channels on my TiVo without the fee; my only issue is on the Roku app.


Oops, I take that back. I can now receive HD channels on the Roku without paying the HD fee. Previously I only had SD and it was a dealbreaker.


----------



## inaka

mattack said:


> HBO Go Airplayed to an Apple TV.. (or did they turn off AirPlay)?


I just picked a random show to stream on the *Xfinity Stream* app on my iPad. 
It plays fine on my iPad/iPhone.

When I try to send the program over to my AppleTV, I see the following message:










And of course, Xfinity doesn't make a version of the Xfinity Stream app available for the Apple TV.

This sucks.


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## mattack

inaka said:


> I just picked a random show to stream on the *Xfinity Stream* app on my iPad.


I actually meant the HBO Go app specifically -- but I think they turned AirPlay off too..


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## morac

pdhenry said:


> On the Roku app?
> 
> I get HD channels on my TiVo without the fee; my only issue is on the Roku app.


Comcast seems to be redoing the way they bill things. I had my HD fee removed a few years ago, but like you I would only get SD channels on the Roku app. Even VOD was SD. The only exception was broadcast channels like NBC. This didn't affect Tivo.

As mentioned the last time I negotiated a rate with Comcast the bundle which includes channel genres as opposed to tiers. Specially it includes "Includes Limited Basic, Kids & Family, Entertainment, Sports & News, Digital Preferred Tier, *HD* And Performance Pro Internet." It also includes 10 hours of cloud DVR which I could never figure out how to use, but found that it works with the Roku app. Since I signed a contract I got $20 off the normal price which came to $99 (excluding the bogus sports and broadcast fees Comcast charges).










You might be able to get a new bundle that includes HD. You can check your rate card at Local services and pricing

Edit: just saw your post you made while I was posting that you have HD now already. I think Comcast is phasing out the HD Tech fee.


----------



## pdhenry

giomania said:


> Thanks so much for the response. It looks like the TCL Roku TV's are not currently supported.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro





pdhenry said:


> Linked from that page I found this info:
> 
> The Xfinity Stream Beta app is available on the following Roku device models:
> 
> The Roku 5XXX, 6XXX, 7XXX and 8XXX series TVs
> Many TCL Roku TVs are 5000 series (although mine is a 3000 series).


FYI, I seem to have the Xfinity app working correctly on my 32S327 32-Inch Roku TV (which is nice, because it's not connected to cable and this gives me my whole lineup).


----------



## pdhenry

morac said:


> Comcast seems to be redoing the way they bill things. I had my HD fee removed a few years ago, but like you I would only get SD channels on the Roku app. Even VOD was SD. The only exception was broadcast channels like NBC. This didn't affect Tivo.


I just discovered tonight that HD channels are tunable on my Rokus; that previously wasn't the case and Comcast reps were saying in their help forum that it was a function of paying the HD fee.

But I'm happy now - see the post above.


----------



## KevTech

HD is now included in almost all packages now for no additional charge.


----------



## gary.buhrmaster

giomania said:


> My HD Technology fee disappeared when I turned in the Comcast DVR my mom was using


Part of the various confusions is the "location, location, location" problem with Comcast charging/offerings. In *some* locations there is a HD Technology Fee, which has nothing to do with HD programming, but just enables the HDMI port on STBs (you can still get HD via component outputs on a STB). That is why a TiVo (which never cared about an STB HDMI port enablement) could get HD programming in those locations without paying the fee (although as some note, getting if off can be a different issue). In *some* locations there is a different HD Programming Fee (similar name, but different), which is about the HD channels. And in a *few* locations the HD Technology apparently did both. One has to love/hate Comcast location differences (and why when comparing such things, you have to offer your exact location to be able to be helpful to others either in, or not in, the same region).

Oh, and many of the recent X1 bundles(*) include the HD Technology Fee (it's in the smaller print), so there is no extra charge, and no way to delete it (and get a credit).

(*) And there were (and may still be, Comcast constantly changes bundlers/tiers/pricing) pricing advantages to get an X1 bundle and then not get any X1 boxes, just the CableCARD(s) (and while some CSRs will be confused when you ask to do so, it is (was?) entirely possible).


----------



## gary.buhrmaster

morac said:


> Comcast currently does not charge an extra outlet fee for the Stream app on Roku because it's in beta. Their FAQ says eventually the app will be treated the same as any other box.


FWIW, Comcast renamed the fee from "additional outlet" to "service to an additional TV" (or something like that), which certainly seems to suggest that they are going to try to continue to differentiate between running on small screen phones/tablets and large screen (TV) presentation devices. The beta Roku (and Samsung app) would seem to be in the "large screen" category. Of course, as with all else Comcast billing, until the rate cards get updated it is all subject to change.


----------



## Whoever58

TostitoBandito said:


> Yeah this is why I posted about that earlier in this thread. Right now your only option is to use HBO Go on another device, like a game console, Fire Stick, Roku, etc... It's completely ridiculous that for whatever reason Comcast and Tivo can't sort this out and are hosing a large portion of their customers as a result.


If you have Amazon Prime, you can sign up for HBO Now through Amazon, and watch HBO's content via the Amazon Prime Video app on your TiVo.


----------



## TostitoBandito

slowbiscuit said:


> Not true in all areas, we don't pay the fee here and get all HD.


In my area (Seattle-ish) the $10 HD tech fee is strictly for an HD DVR if you're renting them. For example, if you have one of their X1 DVR's you eat a $10-15 fee for the device rental plus the $10 HD fee. You can avoid the fee by either using your own equipment like a Tivo, or by getting standard non-DVR cable box from Comcast. I know all this because I formerly had an X1 box in one room and my Tivo in another, and when I decided to get rid of the X1 and go to a fire stick in the bedroom I was able to kill the HD tech fee in the process.


----------



## TostitoBandito

Whoever58 said:


> If you have Amazon Prime, you can sign up for HBO Now through Amazon, and watch HBO's content via the Amazon Prime Video app on your TiVo.


Sure, but that makes zero sense if you have HBO as part of a cable package like I do. The premium channels you can purchase on Amazon are for cord cutters. I'd have to blow up my cable bundle in order to remove HBO, and it probably wouldn't save me any money.

The more convenient option is to do what I do and watch it on an Xbox or a fire stick. But again, the issue here is I have this expensive piece of Tivo hardware which is utterly useless as an all-in-one streaming/cable nexus because Tivo is incapable of keeping apps updated, full-featured (eg. HDR/Dolby Vision), or even offering support for all the big name apps to a big portion of their customers (eg. HBO). I feel like they really fell short on what they promised with the Bolt, though I'm not sure I should be surprised given their track record of third party support.


----------



## KevTech

I am really not sure about the HD tech and Tivo.

In my area Comcast has a X1 saver and X1 starter with both having the same number of channels but according to the rep the difference is saver you lose all HD as it is SD only. 

I tried saver to see if I lost HD but nope I still received all my channels in HD.


----------



## Beryl

My old TCL 48FS3700 runs the streaming app in HD nicely so I’m good until they get the app running in the Bolt again. 

Live streaming quality is indistinguishable


----------



## nrnoble

TiVo_Ted said:


> Those of you that have used the Xfinity VOD application on TiVo have probably noticed that it is quite dated by now. This is because the VOD application was written on top of TiVo's old HME architecture which we no longer use now that HTML5 has taken off.
> 
> TiVo and Comcast are actively working together on a plan to bring a more modern Xfinity application to TiVo customers. I can't give you any more details on that now, but stay tuned. In the meantime, there are several other applications on TiVo that may fill the gap in the interim.


Forgive me for being skeptical that such a Tivo App is currently under development and\or will see the light of day. 

Neither side wants to loose customers, especially Tivo, so it is to be expected they would state that a replacement App might always be possible someday. My thinking is why cancel existing Xfinity VOD functionality before having something ready, or almost ready to replace it?

It might be more simple, it could be usage stats of VOD from Tivo users is too costly to support compared to the PPV revue that is generated. If I take myself as an example, I've never ordered PPV from Comcast, and watch Xfinity VOD about 4-5 times per month. But I do stream Netflix, Hulu, or Amazon Prime 2-4 hours per day.

Overall, I am not too upset. I have a Roku box with the Xfinity app, so it just means having to switch to that app for streaming Xfinity VOD. The Xfinity App on Roku is OK, but is missing a lot functionality.


----------



## ITGrouch

I received the letter today in the mail from Comcast about the discontinuance of the VOD app. I never have ordered PPV and only used the VOD a handful of times, so losing that is no biggie for me. I have already dropped all of my Comcast TV service except for the minimal package for our area, which is included in my rent. At least I can use my CableCARD Bolt VOX with that and the other TiVo apps. I went with Playstation VUE using my Roku Ultra and paying 60.00 less per month for TV service to cover channels not in our Comcast minimal package and have the channels I watch plus an awesome sports lineup.


----------



## ITGrouch

Dan203 said:


> Could you guys also try working with Charter/Spectrum to bring a VOD app? I would love to access the VOD content they have available in my area, but using their box to do it is a PITA so I never actually do. If it were an app on my TiVo I'd use it a lot more often.


I was a Charter Spectrum customer for years until I moved into a different county in TN and it is one of the few areas where Comcast is the provider and not Charter Spectrum or TDS. The lack of VOD on the TiVo from Charter Spectrum was not a big deal for me but I can understand customers who would love to have it. Oh how I wish that I still had their TV and Internet service. I only had minor issues with their service in the years I was a customer.


----------



## ITGrouch

NashGuy said:


> We're neighbors. ;-)


I'm in Gallatin...I guess that maybe that's close enough? lol


----------



## schatham

pdhenry said:


> On the Roku app?
> 
> I get HD channels on my TiVo without the fee; my only issue is on the Roku app.


I now get HD on the Roku app, nothing on my plan changed. This is new in the last month


----------



## schatham

nrnoble said:


> Forgive me for being skeptical that such a Tivo App is currently under development and\or will see the light of day.


This! Maybe when a new cloud based Tivo comes out. I see this as the first step in Comcast removing Tivo, cable cards from use, baby steps.


----------



## pdhenry

schatham said:


> I now get HD on the Roku app, nothing on my plan changed. This is new in the last month


Yeah, same here now. I'm not sure when they turned it on because it was unsatisfactory to have a low-quality 16:9 screen surrounded by black on an HD set and so I wasn't using it.

I'll be spending some time on my Roku TV that I only had connected OTA to see what the experience is like. So far:

You can't pause or rewind live TV
On at least some OnDemand content you can FF through ads but the picture doesn't advance while you're FFing. You have to watch the time numbers and attempt to FF increments of 15 or 30 seconds.


----------



## Whoever58

schatham said:


> This! Maybe when a new cloud based Tivo comes out. I see this as the first step in Comcast removing Tivo, cable cards from use, baby steps.


If Comcast does this, I'll buy an antenna and connect my TiVo to that.


----------



## Dan203

pdhenry said:


> But your bigger point is that there is no government mandate to provide VOD, only the linear channels in one's lineup. It only fairly recently appeared on TiVos.


They tried a few years ago, but even the Dem controlled FCC said that apps are good enough to satisfy the 1996 telecom act. They didn't think it was important for 3rd party devices to have access to the underlying API to access channels and VOD directly.


----------



## NashGuy

morac said:


> Comcast currently does not charge an extra outlet fee for the Stream app on Roku because it's in beta. Their FAQ says eventually the app will be treated the same as any other box. Comcast includes one outlet with their service so if all you have is the Roku app and no other boxes or cable cards you won't pay anything extra. If you have more than one or another box you'll pay the outlet fee minus the customer owned credit.


Yes, it was rumored that that was what Comcast would eventually do. Have service on 1 TV and use a Roku rather than a STB? Get $2.50 off your bill for customer owned equipment (same as CableCARD). Have service on your first TV with a STB and then add service to second TV with a Roku? That'll add $7.50 to your bill ($10 additional outlet fee minus $2.50).

But as I said, Comcast is changing the way they charge things, going from a $10 charge for each additional outlet to $5 for each box. The first box is not included any more in the base channel package fee either. The sign-up process specifically refers to "boxes" and does not deal at all with the concept of "additional outlets" or "additional TVs" to be served.

It may still be that once this very, very long beta trial ends for the Stream app on Roku that Comcast will start charging something ($2.50?) for each separate Roku device on your home network that installs and launches the Stream app. (Will they keep track of the number of individual Rokus that were in use in a given billing cycle? Or once a Roku gets activated and on your account will you be charged the monthly fee until you somehow deactivate it?)

From what I remember reading somewhere in the industry press a long while back, Comcast has been trying to figure out how they want to treat pricing for those devices. In the Stream app beta FAQ, they're basically reserving the right to start charging for it once the beta period ends but they also say "Pricing may change in the future."

And they're certainly giving new customers who sign up online right now the impression that they will not have any ongoing charges for using the Stream app on their devices. I think Comcast is simply responding to world of OTT streaming services, both SVODs and vMVPDs. Basically all of them give you at least two simultaneous streams and don't charge you any kind of outlet access fee to use their app on your own devices. Consumers are now conditioned to think that they shouldn't have to pay the service provider for the ability to use their own devices. If Comcast tries to do it, they know there will be a consumer backlash. Doesn't mean they won't but they may decide that there are better ways to get those few extra dollars from their customers rather than charge $2.50/mo for each Roku in use.


----------



## TiVo_Ted

Checking back in with a few answers to questions posted so far:

Q. Didn't someone know these servers were old, and couldn't they have been updated?
A. Comcast is transitioning to all IP, and I assume these old QAM based systems were largely ignored.

Q. Is TiVo really working on a replacement app?
A. Yes, we are really working to develop a replacement. The new app will be HTML5-based (like YouTube) vs. HME

Q. Will the replacement app run on TE3, or only on TE4?
A. TE3 and TE4 both support HTML5 apps, so we *should* be able to get it to run on both

Q. Why does HBO Go not work with Comcast?
A. There were some legacy security reasons for this, but we're hoping this may be something we can fix


----------



## pdhenry

Dan203 said:


> even the Dem controlled FCC


Really?


----------



## mschnebly

funchefchick said:


> I got this popup today and I'm enraged. I use XOD ALL THE DAMN TIME and I'm furious at Comcast for the millionth goddamn thing. Grrrr. I'm seriously going to go look at cutting the cord at along last.
> 
> (Sidebar: I'm disabled, I spend a lot of time at home and internet and video entertainment are both pretty important. I've been paying a ton of money to Comcast over the years because of movie channels and access to a variety of channels. But they have consistently been terrible and expensive. I'm worried about not being able to manage the complexity of getting high speed internet AND a big collection of channels/pay channels. But I'm also in the beginning stages of building a new house and I would *love* to plan ahead for how to have all of my services Comcast-FREE for the foreseeable future. !)
> 
> Seriously, Comcast? You suck. So, so much. If anyone has helpful/for dummies-level guidance on cutting the cord . .. send it my way. !


An option might be using one of their small non dvr boxes for XOD. I think they are only $5 a month and they might just give you one for free.


----------



## Dan203

pdhenry said:


> Really?


The point was that if the Dem controlled FCC wasn't going to side with consumers there is no way the Rep controlled FCC is going to. The Reps are all about less regulation.

Wasn't trying to be overtly political, just pointing out a basic ideological stance.


----------



## HerronScott

TiVo_Ted said:


> Checking back in with a few answers to questions posted so far:
> 
> Q. Didn't someone know these servers were old, and couldn't they have been updated?
> A. Comcast is transitioning to all IP, and I assume these old QAM based systems were largely ignored.
> 
> Q. Is TiVo really working on a replacement app?
> A. Yes, we are really working to develop a replacement. The new app will be HTML5-based (like YouTube) vs. HME
> 
> Q. Will the replacement app run on TE3, or only on TE4?
> A. TE3 and TE4 both support HTML5 apps, so we *should* be able to get it to run on both
> 
> Q. Why does HBO Go not work with Comcast?
> A. There were some legacy security reasons for this, but we're hoping this may be something we can fix


Thanks for the additional information Ted and wish I could give more than just a Like to your post. 

As always, we appreciate your participation here and any information or assistance that you can provide us as well as hopefully taking feedback from the retail TiVo users back to the company.

Scott


----------



## samccfl99

TiVo_Ted said:


> Checking back in with a few answers to questions posted so far:


Thank you for clarification, Ted. I hope all that you say will come true...hopefully not too very long after 06/25/2019 (yes, I am skeptical).

As you said, it would be very nice if TIVO, Inc can TWIST Comcast's arm to at least authorize the HBO GO app. WE out here certainly have NO pull with this (although I probably will might try, useless as it may be).

I have not gotten the letter from Comcast in S FL yet...

*Have a great Memorial Day Holiday!*


----------



## mazman

TiVo_Ted said:


> Checking back in with a few answers to questions posted so far:
> 
> Q. Didn't someone know these servers were old, and couldn't they have been updated?
> A. Comcast is transitioning to all IP, and I assume these old QAM based systems were largely ignored.
> 
> Q. Is TiVo really working on a replacement app?
> A. Yes, we are really working to develop a replacement. The new app will be HTML5-based (like YouTube) vs. HME
> 
> Q. Will the replacement app run on TE3, or only on TE4?
> A. TE3 and TE4 both support HTML5 apps, so we *should* be able to get it to run on both
> 
> Q. Why does HBO Go not work with Comcast?
> A. There were some legacy security reasons for this, but we're hoping this may be something we can fix


Speaking about Comcast and moving to IP, will that render our TiVo's useless or is there a workaround?


----------



## TiVo_Ted

mazman said:


> Speaking about Comcast and moving to IP, will that render our TiVo's useless or is there a workaround?


Comcast already supports QAM linear channels over their new fiber networks. We have no indication they will stop doing this in the future.


----------



## Davelnlr_

tommage1 said:


> I think any cable card device with Comcast will be gone fairly soon, maybe less than 2 years, maybe sooner. I would not be buying any lifetime cable only Tivos if I was a Comcast customer.....................


I just upgraded from doubleplay Digital Starter, to the next package with 220+ channels with my Cablecard on a two year contract. So that will give me 6 years with this Tivo without having to pay extra outlet fees. AT&T just laid gig fiber and the box is right in front of my house, and my DirecTv dish is still working, so I have a backup if they pull any funny stuff. I never watched VOD, as I mainly watch only news and live sports, so that wont affect me, but it sucks for those that used it.


----------



## pdhenry

TiVo_Ted said:


> Comcast already supports QAM linear channels over their new fiber networks. We have no indication they will stop doing this in the future.


Only if you're not paying attention...

It won't happen tomorrow because they still have a lot of non-X1 hardware in the field but all new hardware is capable of IPTV. QAM is less efficient in network bandwidth use than IPTV streaming


----------



## Falkor

So... the Xfinity app is based on a legacy now discontinued platform. And HBO Go (and I assume Epix) are using legacy authentication systems

Had I know this five-plus years ago, I could have saved myself all the pain and suffering related to having Comcast refer me to TiVo for support, and TiVo referring me back to Comcast, and neither one mentioning ANYTHING about attempting to resolve the issues. GRR!

As a Comcast user, the HBO/Epix issues become irrelevant once "someone" gets a functional XOD app running. So, at least we have that to look forward to.


----------



## Whoever58

mschnebly said:


> I think they are only $5 a month and they might just give you one for free.


Yeah, about that. No, they won't be free.

In my area, Comcast transitioned to the local broadcast stations requiring a box. So there was no channel you could get with just a cable feed and a TV. Initially, the boxes were free, so naturally, people asked for many of them. I got 4.

Then, they started charging for them. Not much at first, but slowly the charges ramped up. I got rid of all of the 4 I had, but not before paying a lot for them. I expect there are still people out there paying for unnecessary boxes.

The idea of Comcast giving something out for free, unless it comes with the real expectation that you will be paying for it in the future, is laughable.


----------



## Ken Nelson

If ever I'm forced to choose between TiVo and Comcast, I'm choosing Tivo!

I'm fine not accessing the Xfinity On demand service on TiVo or anywhere. The content library pales in comparison to Amazon Prime, Netflix and Hulu anyways and if I want to pay for new releases I can go to Vudu, Tubi or another provider. The only time I watch Xfinity is watchathon week when I can binge watch HBO or Showtime series.

This whole charade is because Tivo and Comcast are locked in a bitter patent dispute. Both parties could make it work if they were willing to do so. So, I hope they do create a better Xfinity VOD app and it is available on Tivo, but...

Hear this Comcast... If it ever gets to the point where I have to choose between keeping Tivo or keeping Comcast, I am keeping Tivo and dumping Comcast in a heartbeat!


----------



## krkaufman

TiVo_Ted said:


> The new app will be HTML5-based (like YouTube)


Brace yourself.


----------



## krkaufman

Dan203 said:


> The point was that if the Dem controlled FCC wasn't going to side with consumers there is no way the Rep controlled FCC is going to. The Reps are all about less regulation.
> 
> Wasn't trying to be overtly political, just pointing out a basic ideological stance.


Just google "FCC" paired with Wheeler vs Pai


----------



## NashGuy

Ken Nelson said:


> Hear this Comcast... If it ever gets to the point where I have to choose between keeping Tivo or keeping Comcast, I am keeping Tivo and dumping Comcast in a heartbeat!


Is there another pay TV provider besides Comcast available at your address that supports CableCARD? Unless Verizon/Frontier FiOS TV is in your area, the answer is probably no.


----------



## mschnebly

Ken Nelson said:


> If ever I'm forced to choose between TiVo and Comcast, I'm choosing Tivo!
> 
> I'm fine not accessing the Xfinity On demand service on TiVo or anywhere. The content library pales in comparison to Amazon Prime, Netflix and Hulu anyways and if I want to pay for new releases I can go to Vudu, Tubi or another provider. The only time I watch Xfinity is watchathon week when I can binge watch HBO or Showtime series.
> 
> This whole charade is because Tivo and Comcast are locked in a bitter patent dispute. Both parties could make it work if they were willing to do so. So, I hope they do create a better Xfinity VOD app and it is available on Tivo, but...
> 
> Hear this Comcast... If it ever gets to the point where I have to choose between keeping Tivo or keeping Comcast, I am keeping Tivo and dumping Comcast in a heartbeat!


If you have another service provide in your area then you could switch now. If not then your TiVo might not work at all unless it gets OTA.


----------



## krkaufman

Whoever58 said:


> Yeah, about that. No, they won't be free.


What I'm wondering is whether a new XOD app for TiVo based on IP vs QAM will free us of the "one session per host DVR" limitation but only by suffering the Comcast add'l outlet fee per Mini.


----------



## timstack8969

I just tried the Xfinity Stream beta app on my Samsung TV not bad works fine when watching say HBO Ondemand and it's free but when I watch a program does it sky rocket my data for internet usage?


----------



## brimorga

I only ever watch vod when I’m ordering a big ppv fight, so I guess Comcast is now gonna lose out on that revenue stream.


----------



## pdhenry

timstack8969 said:


> I just tried the Xfinity Stream beta app on my Samsung TV not bad works fine when watching say HBO Ondemand and it's free but when I watch a program does it sky rocket my data for internet usage?


I've read in one of the threads (here or FB) that Xfinity streaming doesn't count against your data cap.


----------



## TostitoBandito

TiVo_Ted said:


> Checking back in with a few answers to questions posted so far:
> 
> Q. Why does HBO Go not work with Comcast?
> A. There were some legacy security reasons for this, but we're hoping this may be something we can fix


Thanks. Anything you can do here would be greatly appreciated since it hasn't ever worked on Comcast as far as I know and there shouldn't be any current reasons for this.


----------



## Bigg

pdhenry said:


> For HBO on your TiVo, Amazon Prime is a non-Comcast alternative. You'll pay $14.99/month for HBO on top of Prime, but that's probably about how much you're playing Comcast.


And the VQ is better than even HBO Go, and far better than on Comcast.



KevTech said:


> I would think they are required if it is part of the features of the TV package.


WRONG. The CableCard rules only apply to *Linear QAM* channels. Not linear IPTV, and not QAM or IP VOD.



pdhenry said:


> Give me a minute, I'll look it up (I should bookmark it). The CableCARD mandate starts by saying that if a cable company makes their programming available on a customer-owned device not sold by the cable company without use of a CableCARD they don't have to support or issue cable cards, they're completely exempt from the requirement. I interpret the Roku beta as potentially meeting that requirement.


I don't agree with that interpretation at all. The Roku doesn't have access to the same content delivery that a TiVo does. I would imagine this would apply if Comcast and TiVo agreed to a software version of CableCard or something.



morac said:


> I'm saying that none of the other third party boxes (or partner boxes as Comcast calls them) use QAM at all, be it for VOD or Live TV. If Tivo has to implement a new app, it would make a lot more sense to do it the same way Roku and Samsung have already done and use IP. Comcast wants to switch to IPTV eventually so if Tivo uses that for VOD they are future proofing things.


Yeah, I figured that's what you meant, it's just not what you said. 



NashGuy said:


> Is there another pay TV provider besides Comcast available at your address that supports CableCARD? Unless Verizon/Frontier FiOS TV is in your area, the answer is probably no.


And anyone sophisticated enough to be using TiVo would already be on WOW, RCN, FiOS, etc, if available in their area. Otherwise, you're probably talking about a local overbuilder that may not have the same channels or speeds available as Comcast.


----------



## pdhenry

Bigg said:


> I don't agree with that interpretation at all. The Roku doesn't have access to the same content delivery that a TiVo does.


I'm not sure I understand your point. How do you interpret the regulations I cited?

Try another way: if down the road Comcast discontinues QAM in favor of IPTV, making the app available on a Roku means they don't have to support separable security.


----------



## Davelnlr_

timstack8969 said:


> I just tried the Xfinity Stream beta app on my Samsung TV not bad works fine when watching say HBO Ondemand and it's free but when I watch a program does it sky rocket my data for internet usage?


I checked on that, and if you are watching using the Stream app on your home network it will not count against your cap. Im not sure if you watch using an Xfinity hotspot.


----------



## Davelnlr_

I don't know how to verify this, but all my Tivo Xfinity channels except a couple are 720p even if the original channel is 1080i. Using the Stream app, it appears it is sending 1080i. Looks much crisper on my monitor. I loaded up the stream on chrome and cast it to the TV, and it showed 1920x1080. When I signed on, I had to agree to use their cloud based DVR feature. If this is the way things are going, then Tivo might become obsolete unless they figure out a way to implement the stream app directly into the Tivo box and allow it to record.


----------



## Dan203

pdhenry said:


> I'm not sure I understand your point. How do you interpret the regulations I cited?
> 
> Try another way: if down the road Comcast discontinues QAM in favor of IPTV, making the app available on a Roku means they don't have to support separable security.


This is what the FCC decided back when they had the committee in like 2013-2014. They decided that an app available to a 3rd party device was enough to satisfy the separable security rule. Now I guess that could be challenged in court still, but at this point it looks like once QAM is dead so is TiVo for cable. (and Ceton, and HDHomeRun)

TiVo and a few others were fighting for something called AllVid which was essentially a bridge device that would have used the DLNA CVP-2 protocol to allow communication between the bridge and 3rd party hardware. The CVP-2 spec has essentially two methods for functioning... one allows a device like TiVo to request a live stream directly so it can be played/recorded locally using an approved encryption scheme just like current CableCARD. The other allows the bridge device to host an HTML5 application that the playback device can display for accessing things beyond the basic protocol like VOD. So essentially TiVo would be able to function just like it does now with linear channels and then serve up the HTML5 app for VOD. However TiVo, and its allies on the committee, also wanted things like deep linking into the app that would allow them to play the VOD video directly without the user having to navigate the UI of the HTML5 app. The MSOs didn't like that at all. They didn't want users to be able to bypass their UI where they might have ads or attempt to upsell them. They also complained that the bridge device would be expensive. Ultimately the committee was divided between two recommendations, one for apps and one for bridge hardware. The FCC decided that apps were good enough and accepted that recommendation. They basically said that as long as the apps give access to all the linear channels the user pays for and are available on more than one device that can be purchased at retail then they satisfy the provisions of the 1996 tellecom act.


----------



## au4life_rz

pgoelz said:


> Something sounds fishy. If VOD is being removed "because it runs on an old server"......... why not just put it on a new server????? If it is being replaced by something better, that is cool. But not if the existing app is removed BEFORE a replacement is ready.
> 
> Sorry, as a paying customer, I am NOT PLEASED. And ESPECIALLY not if it will be replaced by an "ad supported" platform where (I assume) the ads cannot be skipped. That is after all one of the prime reasons we own and pay monthly for a Tivo instead of the Comcast STB. That, and the fact that we don't lose Comcast VOD with the Tivo.
> 
> Paul


I think Xfinity and TIVO could work this thing out quickly IF they wanted to, or maybe Xfinity is just trying to increase their revenue by forcing customers to use their set top boxes. I remember years ago, they removed software so that TIVO users had to use the infrared dongle in order to change channels. It was a HORRIBLE experience, and they were hoping customers would dump TIVO and just use their set top boxes and DVR, but we started a grass roots campaign, and it got so big they added the software back.

Now, after fighting for so long to get ON DEMAND capabilities added to the TIVO, they are ending it. It really sucks for people who access on-demand a lot. It's super convenient to be able to access all of Xfinity's content directly through the TIVO, and I hope enough people would complain so that they would reconsider. I'd also be surprised if they were coming out with a new app, because if they were, they would have had it ready to go before pulling the plug on this. Everyone needs to call in to Xfinity and complain.


----------



## Yuterald

ITGrouch said:


> I'm in Gallatin...I guess that maybe that's close enough? lol


Close enough - I'm in Nashville (south)


----------



## NashGuy

Davelnlr_ said:


> If this is the way things are going, then Tivo might become obsolete unless they figure out a way to implement the stream app directly into the Tivo box and allow it to record.


Getting the Xfinity Stream app on TiVos is fairly likely, I'd say. But allowing the TiVo to record the streams from Comcast to be played back in the regular TiVo system is not likely at all. It'll all be done inside the Xfinity Stream app (just like on a Roku).

But as long as Comcast continues to transmit their channels in QAM, that's not something to worry about. You can still watch and record them in the regular TiVo system.


----------



## Dan203

If Comcast switches to all IP and discontinues QAM then TiVo for cable is dead. There is no successor to CableCARD for IP. We're just SOL.


----------



## superflysocal

I am furious!!
Not sure to dump Tivo or Comcast, but might as well dump both. Tivo is the only reason i am using Comcast. But without Comcast, tivo is useless. Might as well go to Uverse.

I can't believe no one has mentioned this, but for the Stream App on a device like a Roku to work you need Xfinity internet. Am i the only person here who has xfinity TV but uses a different internet provider (Uverse) since xfinity internet is so flaky in my area and a lot more expensive?


----------



## Davelnlr_

If you are using Uverse for internet, you could keep Tivo by buying a DirecTv Tivo, but I dont think Comcast is going to stop sending QAM in the next two years, as they just renewed my two year contract with cablecard.


----------



## southerndoc

Dan203 said:


> If Comcast switches to all IP and discontinues QAM then TiVo for cable is dead. There is no successor to CableCARD for IP. We're just SOL.


For some reason I thought I read TiVo was working on an IP based recording system that was compatible with Xfinity.


----------



## Dan203

geekmedic said:


> For some reason I thought I read TiVo was working on an IP based recording system that was compatible with Xfinity.


If they are then they're hoping to sell it to Comcast as a leased box. There is no law requiring any MSO to support a retail device for IP.


----------



## nrnoble

Falkor said:


> Had I know this five-plus years ago, I could have saved myself all the pain and suffering related to having Comcast refer me to TiVo for support, and TiVo referring me back to Comcast, and neither one mentioning ANYTHING about attempting to resolve the issues. GRR!


Yep, had that ping-pong "Not our problem" response several times. Not fun. At least a couple times I suggested a three way call and got "Sorry, we can not do that". They simply wear down the customer. Must be cost effective to 1) lose the Tivo customer or 2) the Tivo customer just accept the problem.

And having off shore support only seems to intensively the lack of interest in solving the problem.


----------



## pdhenry

geekmedic said:


> For some reason I thought I read TiVo was working on an IP based recording system that was compatible with Xfinity.





Dan203 said:


> If they are then they're hoping to sell it to Comcast as a leased box. There is no law requiring any MSO to support a retail device for IP.


Come to think of it, once they get the IP-based VOD function going (as we're told they are doing), an IP-based DVR would be trivial (see Playon.tv for example). The only sticking point would be that I suspect recording would need Comcast's blessing at some point to be commercially viable in volume.


----------



## SullyND

I’m honestly surprised Comcast has done as much as they have to let people know the end is near. They could have just let it go dark.


----------



## wmcbrine

rfryar said:


> So what recourse do we have for things like HBO on demand?


If you can cancel HBO without breaking your bundle (I can't), cancel it with Comcast and add it in Amazon Prime Channels. Otherwise, you'll need a different streaming box to watch it on. (I know Apple TV works.)


----------



## pdhenry

Roku works as well. I think Chromecast, too (but that's a little different to use).


----------



## morac

It took many, many years, but now most boxes (Roku, Xbox, PS4, Apple TV, Chromecast) work with HBOGo and Comcast. The only ones I’ve found that don’t are Tivo and Android TV.


----------



## slowbiscuit

TiVo_Ted said:


> Q. Is TiVo really working on a replacement app?
> A. Yes, we are really working to develop a replacement. The new app will be HTML5-based (like YouTube) vs. HME


Completely missing the question of why this isn't ready BEFORE Comcast pulls the plug.


----------



## schatham

Whats with recommending Prime video, it's awful on Tivo. FF, no idea where you are, then selecting play again after ff takes forever. It also likes to freeze the Tivo.


----------



## pdhenry

schatham said:


> Whats with recommending Prime video, it's awful on Tivo. FF, no idea where you are, then selecting play again after ff takes forever. It also likes to freeze the Tivo.


What's your better recommendation?


----------



## wmcbrine

schatham said:


> Whats with recommending Prime video, it's awful on Tivo.


I know of no other way to get HBO Go on a TiVo.


----------



## KevTech

Bigg said:


> WRONG. The CableCard rules only apply to *Linear QAM* channels. Not linear IPTV, and not QAM or IP VOD.


I was not talking about cablecard rules but rather what was advertised as part of the TV package I subscribed to. VOD and streampix are both in the features of the package whether or not you use a cablecard. I am on a two year contract and the contract states these features in it. Spoke to Comcast and they are willing to rewrite my contract since I will lose those features so it appears you may be the one that is wrong.

Edit: Just finished with loyalty dept. and what they did is bump my internet speed from 150 to 400 at no price increase since I will lose VOD/streampix. They also told me that this whole thing is based on the Tivo lawsuit against Comcast.


----------



## Beryl

schatham said:


> Whats with recommending Prime video, it's awful on Tivo. FF, no idea where you are, then selecting play again after ff takes forever. It also likes to freeze the Tivo.


TiVo provides inferior streaming across all services so I never bother to use it except for VOD. I stream all non-Xfinity content on Apple TVs and Roku devices. (Even inexpensive smart televisions stream better.)

I agree with those who blame Comcast for this current fiasco but given TiVo's poor streaming history, it is hard to not attribute some blame to TiVo.


----------



## KevTech

Beryl said:


> TiVo provides inferior streaming across all services so I never bother to use it except for VOD.


Netflix works perfect for me on Bolt but not so much on premiere XL4.


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## crs751

I use an Amazon Cube and that streams great. TiVo is poor at best which is why I have the Cube.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gary.buhrmaster

geekmedic said:


> For some reason I thought I read TiVo was working on an IP based recording system that was compatible with Xfinity.


TiVo has MSO specific solutions (i.e. not retail) available that include IPTV support. Unfortunately, other than the overriding generic term IPTV, the underlying tech can vary from content provider to content provider (that is why your Netflix app does not play Prime Video). So something that works for "Joe's Bait and Tackle and Cable system" will be unlikely to work with Comcast.


----------



## NashGuy

Dan203 said:


> If Comcast switches to all IP and discontinues QAM then TiVo for cable is dead. There is no successor to CableCARD for IP. We're just SOL.


As regulars here know, I've been trying to read the tea leaves for the past few years with regards to Comcast's long-range plans to switch to all-IP video. The transition is taking longer than some might have anticipated but Comcast continues to take baby steps in that direction.

This year's baby steps (so far) are:

making all-IPTV service (IP linear channels, IP cloud DVR, IP VOD) the default option for new TV customers (Comcast will still give new TV customers X1 boxes with QAM tuners and hard drives in them but you have to specifically ask for that. It's not even a listed option when you sign up online.)
on June 25, apparently shutting down QAM-based VOD and moving to all-IP VOD for all TV customers 



superflysocal said:


> I am furious!!
> Not sure to dump Tivo or Comcast, but might as well dump both. Tivo is the only reason i am using Comcast. But without Comcast, tivo is useless. Might as well go to Uverse.
> 
> I can't believe no one has mentioned this, but for the Stream App on a device like a Roku to work you need Xfinity internet. Am i the only person here who has xfinity TV but uses a different internet provider (Uverse) since xfinity internet is so flaky in my area and a lot more expensive?


Wow, I live in Comcast/AT&T country and I think you're the first person I've ever heard of (offline or online) who subscribes to Comcast TV but AT&T Internet. But, if you love your TiVo but don't love Comcast internet, that makes sense.

As for Uverse TV...I might have some bad (or good?) news for you. It's been rumored for awhile by AT&T installers that Uverse TV will cease to be offered as an option to new customers around the time that AT&T introduces a new streaming subscription TV service that they've been working on for awhile now. Introduction of the new service keeps getting pushed back -- it was originally slated for last fall -- but signs are now pointing to this summer (3Q). This new service will become the default option that AT&T sells to their home internet customers, as opposed to DirecTV satellite (which will still be around for years) and Uverse TV (which will continue on for some time for existing customers but probably be unavailable for new sign-ups).

There're are a lot of unknowns about AT&T's new TV service, including the branding, the channel packages, the pricing, whether there will be an initial contract, etc. We do know that it will use the same underlying tech platform and online distribution system that's already in place for their DirecTV Now service. We know that it will use a 4K HDR (HDR10 & HLG) AT&T-issued STB running their own customized version of Google Android TV with full access to Google Play Store apps (with Netflix and YouTube already pre-loaded) and a full-featured voice remote with Google Assistant. It will rely exclusively on cloud DVR (no hard drive inside the box). AT&T will almost certainly offer a bundle discount if it's packaged with their home internet service (currently they offer a $10 TV+internet bundling discount) and they'll almost certainly waive any data cap you might have on your home internet service if you subscribe to the streaming TV service too (since they already do this for their customers who have DirecTV Now).

My hunch (could be wrong, of course) is that the upcoming service is basically going to be the same thing as DirecTV Now currently is, except it will come with the new AT&T STB. By the time it's all unveiled, I think AT&T will have added several popular cable channels that are currently missing from their Plus and Max channel packages (A&E, HGTV, History, Food, AMC, etc.) -- they're in the midst of renegotiating some of their carriage contracts lately. And when it comes out, they'll offer a long-rumored cloud DVR upgrade from the current 20 hours to 100 hours (probably for an extra $10/mo).


----------



## alexofindy

I am also not pleased with this; I use the Tivo Comcast VOD app quite a bit. In my home, it's more robust than IP-based apps; I have many cable outlets, but I don't have hard wired ethernet in most rooms, and rely on Wifi for my Internet. Maybe time to try MoCA or Powerline. Anyone have any experience with these technologies?

My family TV is a 2015 Samsung SmartTV, but the Comcast Xfinity App is only available for a few 2017 Samsungs, and 2018 and later. So, I am SOL in this regard. The Roku beta app is my best option, it seems. I hope Comcast doesn't slap a monthly charge on this when it goes off beta.

I would guess that Comcast is ending support for TiVo VOD for one of two reasons: either VOD over QAM is inefficient use of bandwidth, so they only plan to support IP-based technologies for delivering on-demand services, or Comcast is not happy with Tivo's business model of suing everyone in sight over patent issues. Tivo has long used lawsuits as a major source of revenue; it's worked for them in the past, but it's not a good way to make friends. Playing hardball with Comcast is likely to be a strategic mistake for TiVo. As Jim Croce put it, you don't tug on Superman's cape.

My major concern with Tivo is that the loss of Comcast VOD is a portent of worse things to come. If Comcast switches existing cable customers to IP based services like X1, my existing Tivo, which has PLS, will be most useful as a paperweight. If Tivo is to survive, they will have to support DVR functions for IP-based linear TV (and maybe even streaming), and treat existing customers properly by providing an economical means of transferring PLS. For what they provide, Tivo's monthly subscription costs are way above market given that all you get is access to the program guide - Tivo itself does not provide content. Check out the cost of guide services from other providers, say Silicon Dust.

And while I'm venting, a couple of additional notes for TiVo Ted:

Why didn't you have a replacement app for Comcastt VOD available before Comcast discontinued the existing app?
Second, if you continue to introduce new products, please do a better job on design than the bent-in-the-middle Bolt, and please provide a product that does what my circa 2010 Premiere XL4 does, and handles both OTA and Cable (soon to be IP) channels.

Thanks, all!


----------



## alexofindy

That's food for thought, NashGuy. Thanks very much. I also live in Comcast/AT&T country, about 4 or 5 hours north of you, if you get on I-65 and forget to get off.

I have pretty reliable Comcast service delivered via cable (at least the last mile is cable, most of the network is probably fiber), AT&T recently installed fiber to my door, which I don't now use.

I often ponder what I'll do when my TiVo becomes impractical, say when Comcast goes all IPTV. I'd consider AT&T if their offerings are reasonably priced, and their user interface at least acceptable. I'd also have no problem with either Comcast or AT&T cloud-based DVR service; in many ways, they're more versatile than my ancient TiVo. (My ancient TiVo has PLS and does both OTA and QAM, which is why I haven't replaced it). But both AT&T's and Comcast's cloud based DVR's are, at least last time I checked, limited in capacity - AT&T to 1 TB, and Comcast to 0.5 TB, with no option to upgrade. And AT&T's prices are a bit high, when you include their surcharges for more than one TV, and the usually monthly extra charges. So, we'll see....

Thanks again, very much, for your very well informed insight!


----------



## NashGuy

alexofindy said:


> If Tivo is to survive, they will have to support DVR functions for IP-based linear TV


TiVo can only do this if the cable company (the IPTV provider) cooperates with TiVo to make this happen. And since the FCC isn't forcing IPTV providers to do that, most of them aren't. The ones who ARE cooperating with TiVo to make their IPTV systems work with TiVo are simply licensing the whole TiVo system to use for ALL of their customers instead of using their own system and boxes (like Comcast does with X1).

In other words, as we move into the IPTV era, TiVo will die as a retail option for individual pay TV customers to choose. It will live on only as a systemwide solution adopted by entire cable TV operators. So far, RCN and Service Electric (and possibly other small operators) have adopted TiVo's Next-Gen IPTV Platform.



alexofindy said:


> Why didn't you have a replacement app for Comcastt VOD available before Comcast discontinued the existing app?


Because a replacement app mainly depends on Comcast, not TiVo. I'm sure TiVo would have loved to deploy a new and improved IP VOD app for Comcast (like the one TiVo already has for Cox) on their TiVo DVRs years ago. But it's up to Comcast to make that happen.

Bottom line in all of this: *don't blame TiVo, blame Comcast!*


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## CharlesH

NashGuy said:


> Because a replacement app mainly depends on Comcast, not TiVo. I'm sure TiVo would have loved to deploy a new and improved IP VOD app for Comcast (like the one TiVo already has for Cox) on their TiVo DVRs years ago. But it's up to Comcast to make that happen.
> 
> Bottom line in all of this: *don't blame TiVo, blame Comcast!*


And Comcast would say that this is payback for TiVo suing Comcast for patent infringement.


----------



## NashGuy

alexofindy said:


> That's food for thought, NashGuy. Thanks very much. I also live in Comcast/AT&T country, about 4 or 5 hours north of you, if you get on I-65 and forget to get off.
> 
> I'd consider AT&T if their offerings are reasonably priced, and their user interface at least acceptable.
> 
> And AT&T's prices are a bit high, when you include their surcharges for more than one TV, and the usually monthly extra charges. So, we'll see....
> 
> Thanks again, very much, for your very well informed insight!


Ah, yes, I know Indy pretty well. Got family on the west side in Avon.

If you want to see the UI in action for the upcoming AT&T TV service on its dedicated box, click here. Start watching at 8:25 into the video if you want to see the initial set-up or just skip to 14:15 to see the UI for normal TV viewing. (Keep in mind this was a beta from over 6 months ago, so the final result should be faster/smoother.)

Here's my prediction on where this is going. We'll see how much I get right, ha.


This will roll out around Aug. 1, 2019.
There was be three main channel packages available: Starter, Plus and Max.
Starter will cost $30 and contain pretty much the same 35+ channels now available on AT&T WatchTV, but also include HBO too. Note that this package does not include any local broadcast networks or all-sports channels.
Plus and Max will sell for their current regular prices of $50 and $70 (with no additional fees for broadcast or RSN channels). About a month ago, DirecTV Now began offering a $20 discount off of each for the first three months. Just this week, they changed that to $15 off for the first two months. By Aug. 1, those deals will have lapsed. They'll still both include HBO (and Max will also still include Cinemax too). They'll have all the same channels they currently do, but by that time, AT&T will also have added popular channels from A+E Networks (A&E, History, Lifetime), Discovery Networks (HGTV, Discovery, Food, Travel, ID), and AMC Networks (AMC, IFC, BBCAmerica). If PBS stations aren't included at launch, they'll be added at some point in the coming year as they become available for streaming.
All plans will come with 20 hours of cloud DVR storage, with recordings auto-deleting after 30 days. Like now, you'll be able to FF in all recordings from any channel, including past ads.
You can upgrade to 100 (or maybe 120) total hours of cloud DVR, with a longer auto-delete period (3 months? 6? 9?) for an extra $10/mo.
Niche cable channels that aren't included in Starter, Plus or Max might be offered in the form of add-on packs that can be added to one of those base packages. Showtime, Starz, Cinemax and Epix will be offered as a la carte premium add-ons.
Each subscription allows 2 simultaneous steams on any combination of devices, whether in or out of home. Each additional stream will cost $5/mo.
The Android TV-powered set-top-box and remote will be sold directly to customers (maybe $80 each), perhaps with the option to spread the cost out over sequential monthly bills. (The rumor is that AT&T wants to get out of the STB rental business). I definitely expect AT&T will actually give a lot of them away as promotional items for new subscribers (maybe if you commit to sticking with the service a certain number of months or because you bundle it together with AT&T Internet/Fiber). Rather than having long-term commitments, like the 2-year agreement DirecTV satellite has in exchange for deeply discounted monthly rates the first year, this service will be sold with a "no-games-playing" everyday standard price. The free boxes will be the up-front bonus for certain customers. (I still expect folks getting AT&T Internet/Fiber plus TV to score up-front Visa gift cards, though.)
Unless you're getting AT&T Internet/Fiber installed at the same time, the TV box will be a simple self-install option that is shipped to you by UPS. (WAY cheaper for AT&T than a satellite TV installation!) For those who can't even connect a box to their TV and wifi, AT&T will send one of their in-home sales consultants to help you out (and also "helpfully" try to sell you other AT&T services while they're there).
Netflix and YouTube will come pre-loaded on the box, along with the Google Play app store, which by that time should offer the Amazon Prime Video app for Android TV. You can definitely expect the upcoming on-demand streaming service from AT&T's WarnerMedia (called HBO Max or HBO+) to be integrated into the box too. Like regular HBO, a subscription to HBO+ will be non-optionally included in Starter, Plus and Max for no additional cost.
Although it will be available to anyone with home broadband from any provider (e.g. Comcast, Verizon, Charter, etc.), bundling this service with AT&T Internet/Fiber will knock $10 off the price and also score you unlimited data from them, i.e. no data cap. (And running the service over AT&T's own network could only make it more reliable, one would think.)
Uverse TV -- which is only available to homes wired for AT&T Internet/Fiber -- will cease to be sold to new customers. Existing customers will have a long while (couple years) to transition over to the new service before AT&T pulls the plug on Uverse TV.
DirecTV satellite will continue to be sold for several years but AT&T will focus their marketing on rural areas that lack broadband service. Anyone with broadband will have the option to go with the streaming TV service and AT&T will price it cheaper overall to attract consumers in that direction. Starter, Plus and Max will also be available as channel packages to satellite subscribers. (In fact, Plus and Max are already listed as options during online sign-up for satellite TV but with current prices of $110 and $130 rather than $50 and $70!)


----------



## snerd

alexofindy said:


> I am also not pleased with this; I use the Tivo Comcast VOD app quite a bit. In my home, it's more robust than IP-based apps; I have many cable outlets, but I don't have hard wired ethernet in most rooms, and rely on Wifi for my Internet. Maybe time to try MoCA or Powerline. Anyone have any experience with these technologies?


Lots of folks here have experience with MoCA, some have experience with Powerline. Plenty of help available if you choose either route. I'd recommend MoCA, but I'm biased because that's what I use.


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## Falkor

snerd said:


> Lots of folks here have experience with MoCA, some have experience with Powerline. Plenty of help available if you choose either route. I'd recommend MoCA, but I'm biased because that's what I use.


Comcast may have given you a router with MOCA built in. Go to the router settings and turn it on.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## David B Gregory

TiVo_Ted said:


> Starting a new thread on TiVo support for Comcast Xfinity customers.
> 
> First, nationwide support for Comcast linear TV services is not changing. Comcast and TiVo still support our mutual customers accessing the full Xfinity live TV service on TiVo DVR's with the use of a CableCARD decoder provided by Comcast.
> 
> What is changing is that Comcast and TiVo are announcing the end of support for the current Xfinity VOD application. The reason behind this is that the servers which are supporting this VOD application are running on an older operating system which has passed end-of-support.
> 
> Those of you that have used the Xfinity VOD application on TiVo have probably noticed that it is quite dated by now. This is because the VOD application was written on top of TiVo's old HME architecture which we no longer use now that HTML5 has taken off.
> 
> TiVo and Comcast are actively working together on a plan to bring a more modern Xfinity application to TiVo customers. I can't give you any more details on that now, but stay tuned. In the meantime, there are several other applications on TiVo that may fill the gap in the interim.


I received my notice today from Xfinity/Comcast. Considering we pay fees to both Tivo and Xfinity for services and they are not interested in updating technology as needed I will be moving to OTA and dumping cable as soon as my contract expires!


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## krkaufman

alexofindy said:


> I have many cable outlets, but I don't have hard wired ethernet in most rooms, and rely on Wifi for my Internet. Maybe time to try MoCA or Powerline. Anyone have any experience with these technologies?


Plenty of TCFers do. MoCA's preferable, especially if the coax is already available, and the only other method (beside Ethernet) officially supported by TiVo for streaming. Feel free to start a new thread in the Help forum if looking for feedback.


----------



## hybucket

CharlesH said:


> And Comcast would say that this is payback for TiVo suing Comcast for patent infringement.


First, Comcast refuses to pay TiVO for their remote access patent...then they (Comcast) do whatever it is they did so that TiVO has to shut down their VOD. Coincidence? I think not.


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## Davelnlr_

KevTech said:


> Just finished with loyalty dept. and what they did is bump my internet speed from 150 to 400 at no price increase since I will lose VOD/streampix. They also told me that this whole thing is based on the Tivo lawsuit against Comcast.


Ok, this is good to know. That means hopefully, when the Roku stream app comes out of Beta, and they attempt to charge me an "extra outlet" fee for it, I can tell them I have to use it to get VOD and Streampix which are included in my contract. As for Tivo sueing Xfinity, what is this one about? I figured when Tivo was bought out, that crap would have stopped.

As for the Beta App on Roku, I watched all night last night without a single hiccup. No pause, skip back, or anything tho unless you record it on their cloud DVR.


----------



## Ken Nelson

NashGuy said:


> Is there another pay TV provider besides Comcast available at your address that supports CableCARD? Unless Verizon/Frontier FiOS TV is in your area, the answer is probably no.


Yes, Verizon, Spectrum and RCN


----------



## Ken Nelson

mschnebly said:


> If you have another service provide in your area then you could switch now. If not then your TiVo might not work at all unless it gets OTA.


Yes, thank you. I do have options, Verizon, Spectrum, RCN and the satellites Dish/DirectTV. Also, I live in the NYC broadcast region so there are lots of OTA channels too. Other than this latest VOD app issue, I'm actually pretty happy with my Comcast service (which includes internet) so I'm not planning on switching just yet as I can live without their VOD app and be just fine. if, however, down-the-line Comcast gets out of control and tries to make TiVo incompatible, then I'll definitely switch. I'm still going to call customer service on the phone and log my displeasure in their system (just in case they don't monitor boards like this).


----------



## Bigg

pdhenry said:


> I'm not sure I understand your point. How do you interpret the regulations I cited?
> 
> Try another way: if down the road Comcast discontinues QAM in favor of IPTV, making the app available on a Roku means they don't have to support separable security.


The way I interpret it, they have to provide CableCard as long as they use QAM delivery, possibly unless they find a way to provide the same functionality as CableCard with QAM. Once they're not using QAM, there's no requirement.


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## pdhenry

Bigg said:


> The way I interpret it, they have to provide CableCard as long as they use QAM delivery, possibly unless they find a way to provide the same functionality as CableCard with QAM. Once they're not using QAM, there's no requirement.


I think we're in agreement. The question is how long before they turn off QAM.


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## southerndoc

Start writing the FCC and your legislators now. Just like the CableCARDs became a requirement, so can any alternative.


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## WGB

I was pointed to this thread and I'm more angry than I was before. Much to the acronyms I don't know and shouldn't have to know. I have Comcast and none of their boxes. I have my own cable modem that does internet and phone. I have 2 Tivo boxes that support 2 tvs and two others via minis. My wife and I watch things using the Xfinity app and record things on the tivos to watch later.

So now I have one month before all the HBO on demand which we watch (and other on demand that we don't watch) go away.

I don't really care who is to blame. I know this. I pay Comcast alot of money every month for cable/internet/phone. I own expensive Tivo hardware and 4 TVs. It has all worked either really well or in the case of the Xfinity app, well enough.

Hearing Tivo_Ted say there is an app coming is nice, but when? 

Here is what I have in black and white. I have the message from Tivo on Thursday - no mention of a replacement, just death on 6/25. Yesterday I get email from Comcast, again the only thing is it goes away on 6/25 and I guess I can watch HBO on my phone. I get a letter today from Comcast saying it dies on 6/25 and yea, I can watch it on my phone.

This tells me I'm paying alot and getting much of what we watch dropped.

This thread seems to say the rest will die when QAM dies. With this experience that tells me I will get 30 days notice of everything going away sometime (6 months, a year, whatever).

--

I have had Tivo for many years and Comcast longer than that. I can get FIOS.

--

So, do I cut out cable entirely? If I have to buy something, I want it to last.

--

So, what to do. Right now I hate Comcast more than ever. That said when complaining, they have made things work. I have complained to Comcast support and left voicemail with Comcast corporate.

I have called Tivo support who say they are logging calls to get Comcast to change.

--

What to do? I don't have alot of time to figure this out and it really should be easy, but in today's world apparently it's bizarrely complex with too many devices.

--
2 companies I have been a loyal customer of for literally decades are screwing me.

-- 

What to do?


----------



## NashGuy

Ken Nelson said:


> Yes, Verizon, Spectrum and RCN


Let me get this straight: your home is served by *three* different cable companies? Comcast Xfinity and Charter Spectrum and RCN? I've never heard of such. It's highly rare for a particular address to be wired by even two different cable companies. But three?

As for Verizon, sure, it's not unusual for an address to be served by a telco plus one cable company. As a TiVo owner, you're lucky to have the option to use Verizon. (It and Frontier FiOS are the only telcos with TiVo-friendly systems.)


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## NashGuy

WGB said:


> What to do? I don't have alot of time to figure this out and it really should be easy, but in today's world apparently it's bizarrely complex with too many devices.


Verizon FiOS isn't showing any signs that they're going to switch away from QAM (and therefore become incompatible with TiVo). In fact, they just recently launched a 4K channel in QAM that can be viewed and recorded with the TiVo Bolt! (Comcast has repeatedly stated that they'll never offer 4K in QAM, only in IPTV, which TiVos cannot access.)

My advice to you would be to check with Verizon and see what it would cost for your desired package of TV, internet and phone. FiOS TV doesn't have an on-demand app available for TiVo but you seem to mainly be concerned about watching HBO on-demand on your TiVo and (unlike Comcast), Verizon WILL let you use your FiOS TV credentials to activate the HBO Go app on TiVo. So you could watch it that way. (It would be a better experience than you were used to on the old Xfinity OnDemand app for TiVo too.)

If you really want to continue using TiVo long-term, going with Verizon is probably your better option.

Order online and you can get their Extreme TV package + gigabit internet + home phone for $110/mo with a 2-yr contract. You'd have to pay another $15 (I think) for HBO. (You get a price break on additional premiums you bundle in.) But you get a $200 Visa gift card as a sign-up bonus. Free installation. Equipment charges and taxes are extra.

I don't know how they charge differently for using CableCARDs rather than their own TV boxes or whether you can specify during the online sign-up process that you need CableCARDs rather than their boxes. Maybe a Verizon FiOS TV customer can chime in here.


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## jpeden

rfryar said:


> I tried right away after getting the message, does not work for me in MN. Tried again a few minutes ago just in case, and same thing. What part of the country are you in so I can have that information next time I call.


Boston.


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## pdhenry

WGB said:


> What to do?


Buy a Roku or Chromecast.


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## pdhenry

geekmedic said:


> Start writing the FCC and your legislators now. Just like the CableCARDs became a requirement, so can any alternative.


The alternative is already in the regs - an Xfinity streaming app on some piece of hardware that you own.

Don't hold your breath waiting for the FCC to mandate the ability to record on a TiVo.


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## primaryforce

If I complain about losing the VOD application to Xfinity customer support, what are my chances of having them supplying me a free set top box (and keeping my cable card for my Tivo)?


----------



## Dan203

pdhenry said:


> Come to think of it, once they get the IP-based VOD function going (as we're told they are doing), an IP-based DVR would be trivial (see Playon.tv for example). The only sticking point would be that I suspect recording would need Comcast's blessing at some point to be commercially viable in volume.


Once they switch to IP TiVo is dead. Even if they tried to use some sort of PlayOn style trick it would be single tuner and no one is going back to single tuner. And Comcast would just pull the app anyway.

TiVos only chance of survival in the IP world is to make boxes they sell to the MSOs or sell their software for some sort of cloud DVR.


----------



## Family

primaryforce said:


> If I complain about losing the VOD application to Xfinity customer support, what are my chances of having them supplying me a free set top box (and keeping my cable card for my Tivo)?


So if I paid for a Comcast box, could I stream XOD and still keep TIVO on my old HD TV with only one HDMI port? ( I have an extra cable line coming in at this spot.)


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## KevTech

primaryforce said:


> If I complain about losing the VOD application to Xfinity customer support, what are my chances of having them supplying me a free set top box (and keeping my cable card for my Tivo)?


Call the loyalty dept. 1-888-739-1379

One of the options they offered me was to change to a package that includes the x1 box for the same price I pay now.


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## Bigg

pdhenry said:


> I think we're in agreement. The question is how long before they turn off QAM.


Oh ok, I thought you were suggesting that the Roku App would allow them to stop offering CableCard on QAM. Once they go to IPTV, I don't think there's any requirement, so I don't think the Roku app fulfills any legal requirement, even though it might be useful to show to a bunch of technologically clueless congress critters in hearings or something.



NashGuy said:


> Let me get this straight: your home is served by *three* different cable companies? Comcast Xfinity and Charter Spectrum and RCN? I've never heard of such. It's highly rare for a particular address to be wired by even two different cable companies. But three?


He said Verizon FiOS, Spectrum, and RCN, as ILEC, incumbent MSO, and overbuilder MSO respectively.

There are a few pockets in the NYC and possibly DC areas, but there are is a ring around Boston near 128 and out to Framingham where RCN, Comcast, and FiOS all offer QAM-based service. There are also a couple of local muni overbuilders in MA, I think one or two of them may also overlap FiOS for three QAM-based providers. It's rare, but not unheard of.



> As for Verizon, sure, it's not unusual for an address to be served by a telco plus one cable company. As a TiVo owner, you're lucky to have the option to use Verizon. (It and Frontier FiOS are the only telcos with TiVo-friendly systems.)


Does Cinci Bell still do QAM-based video where they have FTTH?



pdhenry said:


> Don't hold your breath waiting for the FCC to mandate the ability to record on a TiVo.


I find this whole discussion to be sort of pointless. Comcast's video product is horrible, the video quality is horrible, the channel lineup is medicore at best, and QAM is not going away tomorrow. Maybe next year, maybe 5 years, maybe longer. It will go away eventually, but the pay TV market is imploding anyway, and there are far better vMVPD options out there anyway with far better picture quality.


----------



## primaryforce

Family said:


> So if I paid for a Comcast box, could I stream XOD and still keep TIVO on my old HD TV with only one HDMI port? ( I have an extra cable line coming in at this spot.)


Yes, this should work but you will need to connect your cable input of your TV to the output coax of the Comcast box. You will need to switch from "HDMI" to "ANT" on your TV to watch the set top box VOD. A better solution would be to consider a remote HDMI switch.


----------



## pdhenry

Bigg said:


> Oh ok, I thought you were suggesting that the Roku App would allow them to stop offering CableCard on QAM. Once they go to IPTV, I don't think there's any requirement, so I don't think the Roku app fulfills any legal requirement, even though it might be useful to show to a bunch of technologically clueless congress critters in hearings or something.


I'm just spitballin', but the CableCARD mandate doesn't mention QAM. It discusses "navigation devices" designed to operate with "multichannel video programming systems."

If the Navigation Devices perform Conditional Access functions, the programming distributor must make available equipment that performs only the Conditional Access function (presumably for a subscriber to install into his own Navigation Device, e.g. TV tuner or TiVo). (See 47 CFR 76.1204 (a) (1) )

If, however, the programming distributor supports a subscriber using his own Navigation (/Access) Device bought on the open market, the programming distributor does not have to make the conditional access equipment separately available to the subscriber. (See 47 CFR 76.1204 (a) (2) )

Translating freely:
If a subscriber is able to use something like a smart TV or streaming device to access the distributor's programming the distributor does not have to distribute conditional access devices (i.e., CableCARDs) to subscribers.

I guess that *is* what I'm saying.

Comcast can use QAM and CableCARDs in their own boxes if they choose, and if they permit subscribers to stream the entire lineup via IPTV they don't have to issue CableCARDs to subscribers. The FCC doesn't care about transport mechanisms (QAM vs IPTV) in the regulation. If a customer can stream, there's no mandate that the distributors abandon QAM in set-top boxes prior to abandoning standalone CableCARDs.

From a business standpoint, as long as QAM is going out on the fiber/coax it makes sense for Comcast to continue to issue CableCARDs but if in the future they run short of CableCARDs to issue (as they did a few years ago) they don't have to take extraordinary measures to get CableCARDs into the hands of subscribers who want them.

Happy to discuss a different interpretation of the waiver in the mandate. Note that I can't explain how U-Verse gets around the mandate unless they already have an app.


----------



## samccfl99

KevTech said:


> Call the loyalty dept. 1-888-739-1379
> 
> One of the options they offered me was to change to a package that includes the x1 box for the same price I pay now.


Now that would be interesting, but the tivo still has a cable card in it, so it's just an extra outlet charge from them, I would think. I only have 4 HDMI inputs in my older receiver. They are all used already...LOL. But for Free, an extra 5 tuners would be nice! (oh, but it probably is only a small X1 without a DVR...)

I personally HATE the X1, which is One of the Many reasons I am still on TE3, even though there are several features of TE4 that I wish I had!!!


----------



## samccfl99

geekmedic said:


> Start writing the FCC and your legislators now. Just like the CableCARDs became a requirement, so can any alternative.


I wonder who would win in a race to get it ALL FIXED...Tivo, Comcast or the "administration"? (yes, complain to Ajit Pie...LOLOLOL)


----------



## Bigg

pdhenry said:


> Happy to discuss a different interpretation of the waiver in the mandate. Note that I can't explain how U-Verse gets around the mandate unless they already have an app.


Yeah, that's my whole problem with that logic. There is U-Verse and related IPTV-based platform on VDSL and fiber that aren't subject to CableCard.


----------



## NashGuy

I won't pretend to be a telecom lawyer but, _if Comcast wanted to_, I don't think it would be terribly difficult for them to obtain a waiver from the FCC allowing them to completely stop issuing CableCARDs to new accounts, given that:

1. Comcast's *entire* suite of TV services is now available via managed IPTV and
2. Managed IPTV is the *default* way that Comcast is delivering all of their TV services to new customers now.

Heck, I'm not sure that Comcast would really even need to get a pre-emptive waiver of the CableCARD mandate. Whatever the letter of the law is (or was) regarding CableCARD, the FCC made clear after the death of the "Unlock the Box" effort that the way forward will be MSO-supplied apps for popular retail devices.

If Comcast simply stopped issuing CableCARDs to new accounts and got called out on it, they could make the argument that they are transitioning away from a CableCARD-compatible distribution platform (QAM) to an incompatible one (IPTV). "Sure," they could say, "we'll allow existing customers on the legacy platform to continue using CableCARDs as long as they're able, but we're not going to put new customers on a deprecated platform." Does anyone *really* think the federal government would actually fight Comcast on that?


----------



## pdhenry

Bigg said:


> Yeah, that's my whole problem with that logic. There is U-Verse and related IPTV-based platform on VDSL and fiber that aren't subject to CableCard.


The words in the regulation mean _something,_ though.


----------



## Bigg

NashGuy said:


> 2. Managed IPTV is the *default* way that Comcast is delivering all of their TV services to new customers now.


I'm not convinced that's the case across all markets.



> Does anyone *really* think the federal government would actually fight Comcast on that?


Probably not. I mean Comcast is running a classic mafia racket against Netflix and others, and no one in the government cares, so I highly doubt they are going to pick up a fight over CableCard.



pdhenry said:


> The words in the regulation mean _something,_ though.


Do they mean anything if the FCC isn't going to enforce the rules anyway?


----------



## NashGuy

Bigg said:


> I'm not convinced that's the case across all markets.


Whatever. The argument would still hold for the markets where that IS the case. And there's no reason to think it won't soon be the case across the entire Comcast footprint, if it isn't already. The Comcast train is definitely bound for IPTV-town. Only question is how long it takes them to get there.


----------



## Family

Is it correct that I may purchase a Roku Express for about $30 that may be used at no charge (at least for now) with my old TIVO Premiere to receive Xfinity On- Demand Streaming? And that streaming is available in HD, but some of the functions like pause and skip are gone???


----------



## BNBTivo

Dan203 said:


> Once they switch to IP TiVo is dead. Even if they tried to use some sort of PlayOn style trick it would be single tuner and no one is going back to single tuner. And Comcast would just pull the app anyway.
> 
> TiVos only chance of survival in the IP world is to make boxes they sell to the MSOs or sell their software for some sort of cloud DVR.


Thank you. Tivos days are clearly coming to an end. It's why I'm selling all of my boxes with lifetime while they still have value. Tivo will be completely dead in a few years or close to it.


----------



## BNBTivo

NashGuy said:


> I won't pretend to be a telecom lawyer but, _if Comcast wanted to_, I don't think it would be terribly difficult for them to obtain a waiver from the FCC allowing them to completely stop issuing CableCARDs to new accounts, given that:
> 
> 1. Comcast's *entire* suite of TV services is now available via managed IPTV and
> 2. Managed IPTV is the *default* way that Comcast is delivering all of their TV services to new customers now.
> 
> Heck, I'm not sure that Comcast would really even need to get a pre-emptive waiver of the CableCARD mandate. Whatever the letter of the law is (or was) regarding CableCARD, the FCC made clear after the death of the "Unlock the Box" effort that the way forward will be MSO-supplied apps for popular retail devices.
> 
> If Comcast simply stopped issuing CableCARDs to new accounts and got called out on it, they could make the argument that they are transitioning away from a CableCARD-compatible distribution platform (QAM) to an incompatible one (IPTV). "Sure," they could say, "we'll allow existing customers on the legacy platform to continue using CableCARDs as long as they're able, but we're not going to put new customers on a deprecated platform." Does anyone *really* think the federal government would actually fight Comcast on that?


This is exactly what is coming. And with the Comcast app, they will still be providing TV services on customer owned devices. It's coming sooner than later.


----------



## BNBTivo

Family said:


> Is it correct that I may purchase a Roku Express for about $30 that may be used at no charge (at least for now) with my old TIVO Premiere to receive Xfinity On- Demand Streaming? And that streaming is available in HD, but some of the functions like pause and skip are gone???


You can use the Xfinity ondemand app on Roku. I don't fully understand the comment about tivo premiere. Roku would be a totally different device that you would install xfinity on. You would need to switch your TV input to the roku when you want to use it.


----------



## pdhenry

Family said:


> Is it correct that I may purchase a Roku Express for about $30 that may be used at no charge (at least for now) with my old TIVO Premiere to receive Xfinity On- Demand Streaming? And that streaming is available in HD, but some of the functions like pause and skip are gone???


In my recent experience, yes.

It would be nice to tune to a specific channel but with the Roku remote all you can do is scroll up/down the lineup. You can set favorite channels and skip among them (and from any Favorite to the full lineup) but otherwise going from Channel 2 to Channel 818 takes a little while.

Verify Roku device compatibility before pulling the trigger - I have an old Roku LT in the bedroom and the Xfinity app won't load on it.


----------



## slowbiscuit

NashGuy said:


> Because a replacement app mainly depends on Comcast, not TiVo. I'm sure TiVo would have loved to deploy a new and improved IP VOD app for Comcast (like the one TiVo already has for Cox) on their TiVo DVRs years ago. But it's up to Comcast to make that happen.
> 
> Bottom line in all of this: *don't blame TiVo, blame Comcast!*


This is pure speculation on your part, and since you missed the mark with how quick Comcast was going to rollout IPTV I don't put a lot of weight on it either. I blame Tivo equally since Ted said they WERE working on a replacement. Um ok, why isn't it ready now? We don't know, cuz he won't say.


----------



## Family

BNBTivo said:


> You can use the Xfinity ondemand app on Roku. I don't fully understand the comment about tivo premiere. Roku would be a totally different device that you would install xfinity on. You would need to switch your TV input to the roku when you want to use it.





pdhenry said:


> In my recent experience, yes.
> 
> It would be nice to tune to a specific channel but with the Roku remote all you can do is scroll up/down the lineup. You can set favorite channels and skip among them (and from any Favorite to the full lineup) but otherwise going from Channel 2 to Channel 818 takes a little while.
> 
> Verify Roku device compatibility before pulling the trigger - I have an old Roku LT in the bedroom and the Xfinity app won't load on it.


Thank you for your answer. I'm trying to use BOTH my Tivo Premiere and stream Xfinity-On-Demand on the same set. My TV only has one HDMI port.

Is this a possible hookup using a Roku stick?


----------



## Bigg

Family said:


> Thank you for your answer. I'm trying to use BOTH my Tivo Premiere and stream Xfinity-On-Demand on the same set. My TV only has one HDMI port.
> 
> Is this a possible hookup using a Roku stick?


With an HMDI switch, yes. There are 2- and 3-port models that are self-powered. Not sure if you could get them to auto-switch though, since both TiVo and Roku normally output video all the time. Maybe put the TiVo into standby when you want to use the Roku and then wake it back up to get back to TiVo?


----------



## NashGuy

slowbiscuit said:


> This is pure speculation on your part, and since you missed the mark with how quick Comcast was going to rollout IPTV I don't put a lot of weight on it either. I blame Tivo equally since Ted said they WERE working on a replacement. Um ok, why isn't it ready now? We don't know, cuz he won't say.


You may have missed several of my recent posts but Comcast is definitely rolling out IPTV now. It's not (yet) mandatory but, in many (all?) regions, 100% IPTV service (as opposed to QAM TV service) is the default option for new Comcast TV subscribers. Unless the customer specifically requests otherwise, Comcast is giving new subs only Xi5 and/or Xi6 boxes -- which don't contain any QAM tuners or hard drives. They rely exclusively on IP for linear channels, cloud DVR and VOD.

As far as assigning equal blame to TiVo for the lack of a functioning Comcast VOD app -- that just doesn't make much sense to me. I would bet that, given that Comcast is the largest cable operator in the US, their customers account for a larger share of TiVo subscribers than does any other pay TV provider. *I'll bet that, among retail TiVo users with an active CableCARD, 35-45% of them are Comcast TV subscribers*. Regardless of whatever legal issues exist between Comcast and TiVo, it's definitely in TiVo's interest for their customers on Comcast cable to be satisfied with the TiVo user experience because they're a HUGE part of their base. Meanwhile, I don't think Comcast gives half a damn about TiVo users, who probably represent about 1-2% of their entire TV subscriber base. (BTW, I've extrapolated those figures based on actual reported subscriber numbers.)


----------



## NashGuy

Family said:


> Thank you for your answer. I'm trying to use BOTH my Tivo Premiere and stream Xfinity-On-Demand on the same set. My TV only has one HDMI port.
> 
> Is this a possible hookup using a Roku stick?


If you don't mind streaming Xfinity OnDemand in standard definition, you could buy a $35 Roku Express+ from Walmart (the only store that sells that particular model of Roku). It can be connected to a TV via either HDMI or by its included red/white/yellow composite triple-input cable. Since your TV's HDMI port is already occupied by the TiVo, you would connect the Roku using the composite cable (which only supports standard definition). After connecting it, you would install the Xfinity Stream app on the Roku, which would let you watch all your Xfinity live channels plus on-demand content. Their app is compatible with that particular model Roku and, at least for now, Comcast doesn't charge an additional fee to use the app on Roku.

The other options would be to use an HDMI switch (as Bigg suggested above), allowing you to connect both the Tivo and a Roku by HDMI and get high definition video from both OR to just buy a new TV with multiple HDMI inputs.


----------



## Bigg

NashGuy said:


> I would bet that, given that Comcast is the largest cable operator in the US, their customers account for a larger share of TiVo subscribers than does any other pay TV provider. *I'll bet that, among retail TiVo users with an active CableCARD, 35-45% of them are Comcast TV subscribers*. Regardless of whatever legal issues exist between Comcast and TiVo, it's definitely in TiVo's interest for their customers on Comcast cable to be satisfied with the TiVo user experience because they're a HUGE part of their base. Meanwhile, I don't think Comcast gives half a damn about TiVo users, who probably represent about 1-2% of their entire TV subscriber base. (BTW, I've extrapolated those figures based on actual reported subscriber numbers.)


I don't think it's terribly relevant to this conversation, because Comcast subscribers are still a big chunk of TiVo's *retail *business, but I believe somewhere on TCF, somebody teased out that Charter has slightly more, because they were far slower to roll out newer DVR systems than Comcast, and Comcast has more overlap with Verizon FiOS. Regardless, they're close, but retail is still a small part of TiVo's business. Yes, TiVo should want those customers to be happy for as long as QAM is around, but their business is primarily MSOs. I believe they have fewer than 1M retail subs, of which some portion are OTA-only, which is a much smaller market, but there TiVo has a much higher market penetration, and the rest are on cable/FiOS.


----------



## schatham

pdhenry said:


> In my recent experience, yes.
> 
> It would be nice to tune to a specific channel but with the Roku remote all you can do is scroll up/down the lineup. You can set favorite channels and skip among them (and from any Favorite to the full lineup) but otherwise going from Channel 2 to Channel 818 takes a little while.
> 
> Verify Roku device compatibility before pulling the trigger - I have an old Roku LT in the bedroom and the Xfinity app won't load on it.


Select * and enter the channel number when in live TV. Still slow but better than scrolling from 2 to 1802.


----------



## brianric

BNBTivo said:


> Thank you. Tivos days are clearly coming to an end. It's why I'm selling all of my boxes with lifetime while they still have value. Tivo will be completely dead in a few years or close to it.


I have two Tivo's but unless I want to go to satelite, Comcast is my only option for watching TV. Seeing that my Parkinson's is slowly advancing, I'll probably be dead before Tivo is completely dead.


----------



## mazman

Interestingly enough, I still have access to Comcast VOD today.


----------



## Family

mazman said:


> Interestingly enough, I still have access to Comcast VOD today.


It's June 23rd.


----------



## WGB

TiVo_Ted said:


> Starting a new thread on TiVo support for Comcast Xfinity customers.
> 
> First, nationwide support for Comcast linear TV services is not changing. Comcast and TiVo still support our mutual customers accessing the full Xfinity live TV service on TiVo DVR's with the use of a CableCARD decoder provided by Comcast.
> 
> What is changing is that Comcast and TiVo are announcing the end of support for the current Xfinity VOD application. The reason behind this is that the servers which are supporting this VOD application are running on an older operating system which has passed end-of-support.
> 
> Those of you that have used the Xfinity VOD application on TiVo have probably noticed that it is quite dated by now. This is because the VOD application was written on top of TiVo's old HME architecture which we no longer use now that HTML5 has taken off.
> 
> TiVo and Comcast are actively working together on a plan to bring a more modern Xfinity application to TiVo customers. I can't give you any more details on that now, but stay tuned. In the meantime, there are several other applications on TiVo that may fill the gap in the interim.


Is the application in Beta or going into beta before the June cutoff? If so, can I sign up?


----------



## pdhenry

schatham said:


> Select * and enter the channel number when in live TV. Still slow but better than scrolling from 2 to 1802.


On the Roku TV, * brings up a picture quality menu regardless of what device/program is running. I can cursor right into a mini guide, but you still need to scroll up or down through all channels, whether in my lineup or not. Holding the scroll buttons works faster than clicking one channel at a time but not much faster.


----------



## IraF

Family said:


> Thank you for your answer. I'm trying to use BOTH my Tivo Premiere and stream Xfinity-On-Demand on the same set. My TV only has one HDMI port.
> 
> Is this a possible hookup using a Roku stick?


Another solution is to buy an A/V receiver. They have multiple HDMI (and component and composite) inputs, and route all those inputs into a single set of HDMI (and component and composite outputs). So, you'd have one HDMI cable running into your TV's one HDMI input. Essentially, another way to get an "HDMI switch."

You'd be able to insert the Roku stick directly into one of the receiver's HDMI inputs. (The HDMI cable from the TiVo output would go into one of the receiver's other HDMI inputs.)

Then you'd select the right signal (TiVo or Roku) to send from the receiver to the TV via a selector button on the receiver's remote control.

(And if you own any, you can have Blu-ray players and game consoles connected to other inputs on the A/V receiver. I have to admit I also have an old DVD player and -- wait for it -- a VCR! I have stuff that's never been digitized and there's no other way to view it. At least I don't have any Super-8 films.)

I have one of the standalone Roku models, and an HDMI cable runs from its output to one of the inputs on my receiver. Those models are more expensive than sticks, but still typically under $100. I guess they still make them? Anyway, mine is recent enough that it does support Xfinity Stream.

Now, is Xfinity Stream on the Roku any good? It's limited and frustrating, but adequate. Of course Xfinity On Demand is also marginally useable compared to TiVo recording playback, and even old Comcast DVR playback; this is simply a bit worse than On Demand.


----------



## schatham

pdhenry said:


> On the Roku TV, * brings up a picture quality menu regardless of what device/program is running. I can cursor right into a mini guide, but you still need to scroll up or down through all channels, whether in my lineup or not. Holding the scroll buttons works faster than clicking one channel at a time but not much faster.


Strange, my Roku TV bring up the same menu as the roku express stick, options, find channel


----------



## NashGuy

Bigg said:


> I don't think it's terribly relevant to this conversation, because Comcast subscribers are still a big chunk of TiVo's *retail *business, but I believe somewhere on TCF, somebody teased out that Charter has slightly more, because they were far slower to roll out newer DVR systems than Comcast, and Comcast has more overlap with Verizon FiOS. Regardless, they're close, but retail is still a small part of TiVo's business. Yes, TiVo should want those customers to be happy for as long as QAM is around, but their business is primarily MSOs. I believe they have fewer than 1M retail subs, of which some portion are OTA-only, which is a much smaller market, but there TiVo has a much higher market penetration, and the rest are on cable/FiOS.


OK, fair points, although I still think, in the overall big picture, that Comcast subscribers are a bigger deal to TiVo than TiVo users are to Comcast.

BTW, if/when the day comes that new Comcast TV subscribers cannot access that service at all (or can only access SD channels) with a retail TiVo, expect to see stories on Engadget, CNet, etc. running "the death of TiVo" stories, eulogizing its role as a turn-of-the-millennium TV technology groundbreaker whose day has come and gone.


----------



## mazman

Family said:


> It's June 23rd.


Duh. Thanks.


----------



## samccfl99

Family said:


> It's June 23rd.


It's June 25th...I wonder what will happen??? LOL

I do have questions if anyone knows the answers.

*IF *by chance I hook up one of those little X1 boxes (that's IF I want to and also get it for free), Will the MOCA in the X1 box conflict with the Tivos?

Also I am wondering if their little non-dvr boxes will work separately without an X1 DVR and also IF the X1 works without one of their gateways?

Also do they still want to come out to install it (And Charge) like they made people do when it first came out (which was ridiculous)?

*I still don't understand why this was not addressed earlier (rhetorical question!)...*


----------



## pdhenry

schatham said:


> Strange, my Roku TV bring up the same menu as the roku express stick, options, find channel


On my standalone Roku Premiere, watching live TV on the Xfinity app I also get a Roku-specific menu when I press *.


----------



## Bigg

NashGuy said:


> BTW, if/when the day comes that new Comcast TV subscribers cannot access that service at all (or can only access SD channels) with a retail TiVo, expect to see stories on Engadget, CNet, etc. running "the death of TiVo" stories, eulogizing its role as a turn-of-the-millennium TV technology groundbreaker whose day has come and gone.


 It's sad that you can predict the headlines so accurately.



samccfl99 said:


> *IF *by chance I hook up one of those little X1 boxes (that's IF I want to and also get it for free), Will the MOCA in the X1 box conflict with the Tivos?


IF you have two X1 boxes that need to communicate via MoCA and two TiVos that need to communicate via MoCA, they will likely interfere with each other. They did when I tried it, and I had to disable MoCA on the TiVo and use Ethernet. You might be able to somehow get them to use different channels, but I couldn't easily do that. If you only have one X1 box, just put a MoCA filter on it, if you have one TiVo, turn MoCA off.



> Also I am wondering if their little non-dvr boxes will work separately without an X1 DVR and also IF the X1 works without one of their gateways?


As long as you don't have an Xi5 and an XG1, you don't need their gateway. Normal XG1 users can have their own modem and router. In some areas, they are rolling out Xi5s without an XG1 for an all-IPTV system. Typically, at least up until recently, you always have either an XG1 (DVR) or XG2 (non-DVR) to tune QAM channels and feed out to Xi3s, XiDs, Xi4s, Xi5s, and Xi6s.



> Also do they still want to come out to install it (And Charge) like they made people do when it first came out (which was ridiculous)?


I don't think so. They did at first to get MoCA filters out there. This may vary locally though. For example, one system I was one didn't do hard disconnects, so many locations were already connected unless they had the local overbuilder, who had analog and Clear QAM and thus did hard disconnected. Another system that wasn't competitive did hard disconnects, so go figure.

*



I still don't understand why this was not addressed earlier (rhetorical question!)...

Click to expand...

*Comcast would rather move people to X1 at this point, and TiVo is incredibly slow to do anything about anything, so here we are.


----------



## schatham

pdhenry said:


> On my standalone Roku Premiere, watching live TV on the Xfinity app I also get a Roku-specific menu when I press *.
> 
> View attachment 41225


When in the guide press star, that should work. My mistake when I said live TV.


----------



## pdhenry

schatham said:


> When in the guide press star, that should work. My mistake when I said live TV.


Yeah, that works (better than finding a channel on the TiVo, actually).

I've spent more time with the app. If the X1 streaming quality is the same as the Roku I wouldn't be happy if that was my primary TV programming source. Lots of artifacting with shapes moving against a textured background (which I guess you'd expect). OK for limited OnDemand watching.


----------



## LoREvanescence

I just got the message on my TiVo that they are killing the VOD app on June 25th.

Sighs.

Yes it's out of date, but that's because no effort has been put into keeping it up to date. Really hope it comes back in a updated form. But I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## angelsix

I hate rewarding bad behavior, but ...

I have no doubt that this is just Comcast screwing TIVO and TIVO's customers. Having Comcast use such an underhanded tactic sure seems to me like the kind of thing that a big corporation that stole patent technology would do to punish the rightful owner of the patent from having the gall to assert their rights. Comcast blaming TIVO for using old technology is preposterous. It's all 1's and 0's -- just programming.

And, yet, I think I'm going to give up on TIVO and just become another of Xfinity's sheep, taking whatever crappy psuedo-DVR they offer.

My wife needs simplicity when she watches TV. Yes, we use Xfinity VOD, for events that we somehow failed to record (e.g. catching up on a series we're interested in but failed to set up a series recording when it first premiered).

Our TIVO Premiere is tediously slow in accessing Amazon Prime and Netflix, so we either twiddle our thumbs, or access those through our Playstation III, but that's too much remote-fiddling for my wife to be willing to do it, so she usually isn't willing to use those services without me managing the remotes.

Now if I tell her "Oh, by they way, Comcast has pulled Xfinity VOD from TIVO's. But don't worry, we can buy another device, a ROKU, for you to figure out and use whenever you want to use an Xfinity On Demand show. To then see those shows in HD, we will have to pay a monthly subscription price to ROKU. Of course, there may be some extra charge, but I can't tell you how much because those shows will be charged against our monthly data cap, which might make us go over the cap, which might make it worth paying more every month to Xfinity for more data ...."

Maybe, though, she'll just say "Oh, never mind. No, let's not get another gadget (e.g. a ROKU). Xfinity VOD is such a PITA to use that we'll just forget about it. Besides, we mostly use it to catch up on a missed episode of something, but XFinity now dumps those re-runs over to Hulu so quickly that there's very rarely anything available for catch-ups anyway." Then I'll install a new BOLT, and after a while we won't even remember why we were interested in ever bothering with Xfinity VOD. Especially because she really loves that "D" button (skipping commercials).


----------



## mschnebly

I guess I never really understood why some have such a hard time changing inputs on their TV. Did they never have a VCR or DVD player? It's really a no brainer. It takes about 10 seconds or so to press a button and select an input. Hooking up a Roku or any other streamer is as simple as plugging it in. The video quality is so much better than Comcast cable.

When Comcast moves to IPTV and requires an app to watch their service will there really be any need for a TiVo? At that time it will just be a glorified Roku. It's only purpose will be to launch apps. None of the TiVo UI will actually be used. A friend of mine says his Comcast box is now just a Linux box with the Comcast app that opens on startup. Getting this VOD app from Comcast seems like the first step for them to get the bugs worked out for that final nail.


----------



## wmcbrine

mschnebly said:


> I guess I never really understood why some have such a hard time changing inputs on their TV.


It's not really the input -- it's having to change the remote. You can (maybe) change the input via the "Input" button on the TiVo remote; but then what? It can't really control anything else.


----------



## kpeters59

A $60 Harmony 650 is really a very capable remote, for the money...when properly 'dialed in'.

-KP


----------



## laria

kpeters59 said:


> A $60 Harmony 650 is really a very capable remote, for the money...when properly 'dialed in'.
> 
> -KP


We have a Harmony 650 yet... went out of our way to whittle down our devices to just one Roamio because we prefer the peanut so much more.

It's kind of stupid, but the remote is one of the things keeping us from getting an Apple TV and just using our X1 that is gathering dust on the dining room table. I hate paying the extra outlet fee for a device that I'm not using, but I had to log in to our Netflix account from the X1 so that Comcast will pay for Netflix (part of our cable package) and I don't know what happens if I then get rid of the X1.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

laria said:


> We have a Harmony 650 yet... went out of our way to whittle down our devices to just one Roamio because we prefer the peanut so much more.
> 
> It's kind of stupid, but the remote is one of the things keeping us from getting an Apple TV and just using our X1 that is gathering dust on the dining room table. I hate paying the extra outlet fee for a device that I'm not using, but I had to log in to our Netflix account from the X1 so that Comcast will pay for Netflix (part of our cable package) and I don't know what happens if I then get rid of the X1.


You can return that X1 box and your Comcast Netflix will remain active, you just need the X1 box to activate the account and it will keep working as long as you have Comcast service.


----------



## laria

Well that's good to know... but now I guess I need to keep it if I want to use XOD.


----------



## slowbiscuit

angelsix said:


> Now if I tell her "Oh, by they way, Comcast has pulled Xfinity VOD from TIVO's. But don't worry, we can buy another device, a ROKU, for you to figure out and use whenever you want to use an Xfinity On Demand show. To then see those shows in HD, we will have to pay a monthly subscription price to ROKU. Of course, there may be some extra charge, but I can't tell you how much because those shows will be charged against our monthly data cap, which might make us go over the cap, which might make it worth paying more every month to Xfinity for more data ...."


Lots of wrong here - Comcast XOD has been in 'beta' on Roku for over 2 years now with no plans to charge for it. And all the HD channels are there now. You don't use the cap for the app because the Stream stays in Comcast's network. Finally, Rokus are cheap and WAY faster than your ancient, doggy Premiere.

Bottom line is to just get Rokus and be done with it, the app works fine as a replacement. Plus one day (maybe this year, who knows) Tivo will get off their ass and finally deliver a Roku app to replace Minis. For free.


----------



## NashGuy

angelsix said:


> Our TIVO Premiere is tediously slow in accessing Amazon Prime and Netflix, so we either twiddle our thumbs, or access those through our Playstation III, but that's too much remote-fiddling for my wife to be willing to do it, so she usually isn't willing to use those services without me managing the remotes.


A feature called HDMI-CEC can make it WAY easier to switch inputs and remotes when you have more than one box/device connected to your TV.

If your TV supports HDMI-CEC, and the various boxes connected to your TV also have that feature, then you can simply pick up the remote control for a box and press a single button and it will automatically power on the TV and switch it to the correct input. If the TV is already on and you want to switch to using a different box, just pick up its remote, click a button, and the TV will switch to the correct input for that box. When you're done, you can power the box off (or put it to sleep) and that will power off the TV and the other connected boxes too.

TiVo and Roku both support HDMI-CEC. But you must turn that feature on in your TV's menu system too, assuming it supports it. Different TV brands use their own name for HDMI-CEC. For instance, Samsung calls it "Anynet" and LG calls it "SimpLink".

This TiVo support page has more info.


----------



## krkaufman

slowbiscuit said:


> Tivo will ... finally deliver a Roku app to replace Minis. For free.


As has been discussed elsewhere, it won't be a full replacement.


----------



## samccfl99

angelsix said:


> I hate rewarding bad behavior, but ...
> 
> And, yet, I think I'm going to give up on TIVO and just become another of Xfinity's sheep, taking whatever crappy psuedo-DVR they offer.


IDK why they were so lazy and not buffer all the tuners like the Tivo does?

I don't really care about voice control (but it is good for On Demand things on the X1), but I really want the audio dropout to stop going in and out of TC and also that Continue Strip with the last X things last played. If they would just put those 2 mods in TE3, I would be very happy. But they won't... My first guess at when TE4 Might be good enough to try (no going back) was Xmas 2019. I don't think it will make it...LOL.


----------



## Yuterald

TiVo_Ted said:


> TiVo and Comcast are actively working together on a plan to bring a more modern Xfinity application to TiVo customers. I can't give you any more details on that now, but stay tuned. In the meantime, there are several other applications on TiVo that may fill the gap in the interim.


I have to really question this part since Comcast stated: "Comcast said "out of date [TiVo] technology that cannot be upgraded or updated" was the reason for pending non-access." The key words being "...cannot be upgraded or updated..."


----------



## TiVo_Ted

Dan203 said:


> Once they switch to IP TiVo is dead. Even if they tried to use some sort of PlayOn style trick it would be single tuner and no one is going back to single tuner. And Comcast would just pull the app anyway.
> 
> TiVos only chance of survival in the IP world is to make boxes they sell to the MSOs or sell their software for some sort of cloud DVR.


Posted in 2001 - To subscribe, or not? - TiVo Community Forum Archive 1

Love this part: "_I could easily do a "lifetime" sub, but I have to wonder what the long term viability of the company is. Granted, the brilliant people here have done nothing to injure Tivo, but the whole concept of tapeless recording is a niche._"


----------



## TiVo_Ted

slowbiscuit said:


> This is pure speculation on your part, and since you missed the mark with how quick Comcast was going to rollout IPTV I don't put a lot of weight on it either. I blame Tivo equally since Ted said they WERE working on a replacement. Um ok, why isn't it ready now? We don't know, cuz he won't say.


Unfortunately, I can't go into the details surrounding how we got to where we are today. I would have loved to have avoided a gap in service here, but it just wasn't feasible. I will try to post more about the replacement app as soon as I can.


----------



## mpnret

slowbiscuit said:


> Lots of wrong here - Comcast XOD has been in 'beta' on Roku for over 2 years now with no plans to charge for it. And all the HD channels are there now. You don't use the cap for the app because the Stream stays in Comcast's network. Finally, Rokus are cheap and WAY faster than your ancient, doggy Premiere.
> 
> Bottom line is to just get Rokus and be done with it, the app works fine as a replacement. Plus one day (maybe this year, who knows) Tivo will get off their ass and finally deliver a Roku app to replace Minis. For free.


Roku Express is less than $30. on Amazon with free shipping. I already had a fire stick hanging off one of my HDMI ports so I just downloaded the Xfinity app for that. I didn't get a chance to give it a good test yet but so far so good. Anybody know what the deal is on that app? Is it beta?


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

TiVo_Ted said:


> Posted in 2001 - To subscribe, or not? - TiVo Community Forum Archive 1
> 
> Love this part: "_I could easily do a "lifetime" sub, but I have to wonder what the long term viability of the company is. Granted, the brilliant people here have done nothing to injure Tivo, but the whole concept of tapeless recording is a niche._"


I have been genuinely curious about Tivo's retail viability due to the cablecard situation, and would love to hear your take on it. Cards obviously won't disappear in the short term or anything, but maybe your industry insight would comfort a lot of cable customers here as far as future purchasing decisions go. Set us straight!


----------



## laria

Boy, everyone REALLY wants to make sure people know about this. I got the message on the TiVo last week. I got 2 emails from Comcast last week. I got a paper letter in the mail from Comcast on Saturday. And now I just got yet another email from TiVo.


----------



## pdhenry

slowbiscuit said:


> Lots of wrong here - Comcast XOD has been in 'beta' on Roku for over 2 years now with no plans to charge for it.


When you first activate the app on a Roku you have to acknowledge that when it comes out of Beta it will be a charged service. I would equate that with "plans to charge for it."

I don't have an issue with the rest of your post. For the time being a Roku is an acceptable workaround (and for my Roku TV that I had been using OTA, it's like money in the bank  ).


----------



## NashGuy

pdhenry said:


> When you first activate the app on a Roku you have to acknowledge that when it comes out of Beta it will be a charged service. I would equate that with "plans to charge for it."
> 
> I don't have an issue with the rest of your post. For the time being a Roku is an acceptable workaround (and for my Roku TV that I had been using OTA, it's like money in the bank  ).


Have you plugged a USB flash drive into your Roku TV? I understand that you can do that in order to buffer live OTA TV and enable trick play.

Roku


----------



## trip1eX

Any chance Midco cable gets VoD support on Tivo? They are ~50% owned by Comcast. 
OK techincally they do have it. But only if you rent Tivo through them.


----------



## lgkahn

I cannot use the roku app as i have a business internet home business and residential cable. and either tells me i need comcast internet or comcast video services depending on which login i use


----------



## pdhenry

NashGuy said:


> Have you plugged a USB flash drive into your Roku TV? I understand that you can do that in order to buffer live OTA TV and enable trick play.
> 
> Roku


No. I have a cheap antenna connected to the RokuTV but its primary video source (before loading the Xfinity app anyway) has been a TiVo Premiere with a slightly better OTA antenna. Since the flash drive doesn't work with the video inputs I didn't think it was worth it.


----------



## hybucket

laria said:


> Boy, everyone REALLY wants to make sure people know about this. I got the message on the TiVo last week. I got 2 emails from Comcast last week. I got a paper letter in the mail from Comcast on Saturday. And now I just got yet another email from TiVo.


I also got a second email from TiVO today re: the demise of the VOD app. I re-read it and noticed this paragraph
The last line of the email I cut-and-pasted below seems to make you think you can watch XFinity On Demand on the Hulu or Amazon apps on your TiVO. This is not true. You can view many of the network shows that you might miss watching "live" IF you subscribe to these services, but they do not always show up, and I don't think NBC shows turn up on any of them. If I'm incorrect on this, I'm sure someone will let me us know.

*However, there are several other ways to watch video on demand (VOD) content:*

Apple and Android phones and tablets using the Xfinity Stream app
Laptop or desktop computer by going to xfinitytv.comcast.net
Xfinity cable box if available in another room in your home
Hulu, Prime Video and Vudu apps on your TiVo DVR1"


----------



## Dan203

TiVo_Ted said:


> Posted in 2001 - To subscribe, or not? - TiVo Community Forum Archive 1
> 
> Love this part: "_I could easily do a "lifetime" sub, but I have to wonder what the long term viability of the company is. Granted, the brilliant people here have done nothing to injure Tivo, but the whole concept of tapeless recording is a niche._"


I've been all in with TiVo for nearly 20 years, but the writing is on the wall. Unless you guys can pull together your own OTT skinny bundle the technology does not exist, nor the political will, to allow you to record IPTV. I told Isra this a couple years back when I was part of a video chat panel, but he seemed to indicate that you guys looked into the OTT route and gave up because it's to tumultuous.

I'm sure you guys can continue to make OTA DVRs, but that's a pretty niche market. And if you get into a partnership with an MSO and sell them IPTV DVRs they lease then great, but unless you pull together an OTT skinny bundle your retail cable device is dead.


----------



## randyb359

NashGuy said:


> V
> I don't know how they charge differently for using CableCARDs rather than their own TV boxes or whether you can specify during the online sign-up process that you need CableCARDs rather than their boxes. Maybe a Verizon FiOS TV customer can chime in here.


Place the order in your cart online then do an online chat and have them remove the box and add a cable card. They charge $5 per month for a cable card. $12 to rent a box and another $12 if you want DVR service.


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## Ceciliachavez75

I don’t have Roku or anything like that , it sucks that now when I want to watch Xfinity on demand I have to do,so on my husbands tv that has no TiVo box.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Bigg

angelsix said:


> I have no doubt that this is just Comcast screwing TIVO and TIVO's customers. Having Comcast use such an underhanded tactic sure seems to me like the kind of thing that a big corporation that stole patent technology would do to punish the rightful owner of the patent from having the gall to assert their rights. Comcast blaming TIVO for using old technology is preposterous. It's all 1's and 0's -- just programming.


Comcast didn't steal patented technology - the patents are utterly ridiculous and TiVo is a borderline patent troll. Comcast has done a LOT of extremely shady things, so pick something legitimate to bash Comcast over, like working to get anti-muni broadband bills passed, fighting muni broadband at a local level, charging ridiculous rates and putting arbitrary and capricious data caps on their internet, providing piss-poor video quality because they are too cheap to do more system upgrades or do their encoding right, and how they used classic Mafia tactics on Netflix to extort protection money from them.



> Our TIVO Premiere is tediously slow in accessing Amazon Prime and Netflix, so we either twiddle our thumbs, or access those through our Playstation III, but that's too much remote-fiddling for my wife to be willing to do it, so she usually isn't willing to use those services without me managing the remotes.


Jeez, it's not that hard. I just don't understand the mentality. If it's that bad, get a Harmony 650.



> To then see those shows in HD, we will have to pay a monthly subscription price to ROKU.


WHAT? There is no subscription fee to Roku.


----------



## krkaufman

Yuterald said:


> I have to really question this part since Comcast stated: "Comcast said "out of date [TiVo] technology that cannot be upgraded or updated" was the reason for pending non-access." The key words being "...cannot be upgraded or updated..."


Where'd the "TiVo" come from? I figured it likely that Comcast wants to shutdown some backend servers supporting the service.


----------



## SullyND

Dan203 said:


> I've been all in with TiVo for nearly 20 years, but the writing is on the wall. Unless you guys can pull together your own OTT skinny bundle the technology does not exist, nor the political will, to allow you to record IPTV.


I don't think the technology is the problem. It's not a standard like Cablecard, but for instance if TiVo could convince Comcast to allow them on to their IPTV network the technology would be a small hurdle. If current hardware can't do it then something like the ATSC 3.0 tuner solution might work.

Why would Comcast do that? Good question.

Legal settlement?

Avoid losing TiVo customers? We're a small group, and I doubt that would be enough, but I'm surprised how hard Comcast has tried to alert us to the demise of XOD.

Likely? Maybe not. 
Possible? I think so.


----------



## slowbiscuit

TiVo_Ted said:


> Posted in 2001 - To subscribe, or not? - TiVo Community Forum Archive 1
> 
> Love this part: "_I could easily do a "lifetime" sub, but I have to wonder what the long term viability of the company is. Granted, the brilliant people here have done nothing to injure Tivo, but the whole concept of tapeless recording is a niche._"


Great. Now tell us what the future of Tivo with Comcast IPTV is. You're getting these 'IPTV after Cablecard is the death of Tivo' comments because your company won't say what the future of Tivo hardware is without Cablecard.


----------



## slowbiscuit

pdhenry said:


> When you first activate the app on a Roku you have to acknowledge that when it comes out of Beta it will be a charged service. I would equate that with "plans to charge for it."


Agreed, but like I said it's been two years now and the future looks a lot different due to cord cutting. I don't see them charging for an app.


----------



## hershey4

I'll chime in with my $.02. I got the Tivo message last week, but no emails or mails from anyone. I kinda understand that it's one company's fault more than the other, but I don't really get or care about the underlying politics and history. In my mind I think both companies are at fault for not working together to keep their mutual customers happy.

I rarely use VOD (can't deal with disabled FF -- it always seemed to be), but it was important to me when I signed up that VOD would be there if I needed it and now I feel gipped (sp?). I tried the Roku Streaming Beta and it was OK, but the fast forwarding was horrible (I happened to pick a show that permitted it) and really unacceptable. (maybe in time I would get better at figuring out the timing). 

I bet by the time Tivo/Comcast VOD goes away and I actually need Roku Streaming Xfinity VOD, it will probably cost something. Then I will truly be SOL and pissed. Not totally pissed yet, because I have a workaround.

p.s. This Roku experiment came after a pretty horrible customer service experience trying to establish my xfinity account. I have never used the account or my username/password/comcast email or anything. And to hook up to Roku Xfinity in that state, you pretty much can't get there from here. I eventually did but what a royal pain.


----------



## mattack

Even though I sort of dismissed this in this or another thread, I realized one time that I DO use the Comcast app -- for HBO shows on demand. So this going away will slightly be a pain. (Other than that, I think I have used VOD _once_ in recent months.. and that was only for a dumb reality show I forgot to set a OP for until after the first episode, so recorded it from VOD onto my non-Tivo recorder to watch faster than realtime some eon...)


----------



## TiVo_Ted

slowbiscuit said:


> Great. Now tell us what the future of Tivo with Comcast IPTV is. You're getting these 'IPTV after Cablecard is the death of Tivo' comments because your company won't say what the future of Tivo hardware is without Cablecard.


There is zero indication that linear TV support with Cablecard is going away, from Comcast or any other major US cable operator. Regardless, you may have also noticed that TiVo is well underway with our support for IPTV - example: Armstrong Latest to Use TiVo's Next-Gen IPTV Platform This includes full network based IPTV (cloud DVR, etc.) as well as hybrid OTA products and hard drive based IPTV clients.

Also, our retail OTA business is growing 10% YoY and we recently showed a technology demo with ATSC3.0. My point in re-posting the old thread is that people have been forecasting the demise of TiVo since our IPO in 1999. And yet, we are still supporting over 20,000 customers who purchased lifetime service with their Series 2 devices in 2000-2001 for $199.99. How many 18 year old consumer electronics devices are you still using?


----------



## Dan203

SullyND said:


> I don't think the technology is the problem. It's not a standard like Cablecard, but for instance if TiVo could convince Comcast to allow them on to their IPTV network the technology would be a small hurdle. If current hardware can't do it then something like the ATSC 3.0 tuner solution might work.
> 
> Why would Comcast do that? Good question.
> 
> Legal settlement?
> 
> Avoid losing TiVo customers? We're a small group, and I doubt that would be enough, but I'm surprised how hard Comcast has tried to alert us to the demise of XOD.
> 
> Likely? Maybe not.
> Possible? I think so.


Technology was a bad word choice. Standard would have been better. Or maybe regulation. In any case there is no universal way for TiVo to access IPTV cable systems. Even if one allows it, like say Comcast, that would still exclude the other 60% of cable subscribers in the US. Without some universal standard, like CableCARD, there will be no way to produce a universal cable DVR like we have now. And there is zero political will to create such a standard so it's not going to happen.


----------



## Beryl

TiVo_Ted said:


> And yet, we are still supporting over 20,000 customers who purchased lifetime service with their Series 2 devices in 2000-2001 for $199.99. How many 18 year old consumer electronics devices are you still using?


My sister still has one of those monster TV sets from the 90s.

I just referred to a spreadsheet that I created nearly a decade ago to determine the ROI of getting 2 S3 TiVos versus 2 renting similar equipment from Comcast. It would take at least 4 years to make it financially feasible. They did the distance, were sold/donated and now I have a Bolt, Roamio, and a Premiere - all with lifetime service. I'm not planning to dump TiVo unless the technology significantly changes.


----------



## Dan203

TiVo_Ted said:


> There is zero indication that linear TV support with Cablecard is going away, from Comcast or any other major US cable operator. Regardless, you may have also noticed that TiVo is well underway with our support for IPTV - example: Armstrong Latest to Use TiVo's Next-Gen IPTV Platform This includes full network based IPTV (cloud DVR, etc.) as well as hybrid OTA products and hard drive based IPTV clients.
> 
> Also, our retail OTA business is growing 10% YoY and we recently showed a technology demo with ATSC3.0. My point in re-posting the old thread is that people have been forecasting the demise of TiVo since our IPO in 1999. And yet, we are still supporting over 20,000 customers who purchased lifetime service with their Series 2 devices in 2000-2001 for $199.99. How many 18 year old consumer electronics devices are you still using?


I didn't mean to say TiVo the company was dead. I said in a previous comment that TiVos retail cable device is going to die. I thought I said that here as well, but I said "TiVo is dead" and that's not exactly what I meant. I know you guys will likely continue in the OTA space, but that's pretty niche compared to cable. Less than 20% of US TV watchers even use OTA. (last poll I saw anyway) A lot are cutting the cord, but that's mainly for streaming services not OTA. Now as mentioned before if you could integrate TiVo's UI with one of the OTT skinny bundles out there, or roll your own skinny bundle, then I think TiVo could dominate the cord cutting market. Especially if you could seamlessly integrate local recording of OTA with this OTT skinny bundle. That would e a cord cutters dream.

And for the record I plan to continue to use TiVo as long as I can. Even if my cable company goes all IP and I have to switch I'll still use my OTA TiVo.


----------



## laria

Maybe TiVo should pivot and get into the universal remote business... I'd buy a universal peanut. 

I would much rather keep using my Roamio than Comcast's box, so I will keep my fingers crossed that an XOD app does make its way back to it. I have definitely gotten my money's worth out of my lifetime subs. Not sure if we're counted in those 20,000 original subs... we still have 3 S1's at our house that had $199.99 lifetime subs on them purchased in 2000, 2 of the subs got transferred to S3's in 2006 but we still have all 5 of those boxes, for a tech museum or something... the Roamio in 2013 was the only new sub we have bought since 2000.


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## Yuterald

I've been with TiVO since the AT&T branded box first came out some 19+ years ago. I have a Bolt and 5 mini's and love not having to pay per "outlet" like Comcast/Xfinity customers have to. Oh, and I have Xfinity so I pay for just the one drop. I am PSYCHED to see a change in the Mini GUI today!! Prior to today whenever you clicked the "menu" or "list" to see your recorded shows you'd lose seeing the live feed. Like the Bolt, it now continues to display the live feed in the upper corner when you click "list" and it covers the background when you select "menu"!


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## WGB

Do I understand from others that if I have an Amazon Prime subscription I can get HBO through that (for a fee) on my Tivo Pro? If that's the case, then when my Comcast contract ends in 2 months I can drop to a less expensive package and pay Amazon instead? In this whole mess, HBO is the part of VOD we use and want to solve. I keep forgetting that they have anything else. I ask because of Comcast blocking HBO GO on Tivo, so do they block the Amazon/HBO app?


----------



## krkaufman

WGB said:


> Do I understand from others that if I have an Amazon Prime subscription I can get HBO through that (for a fee) on my Tivo Pro? If that's the case, then when my Comcast contract ends in 2 months I can drop to a less expensive package and pay Amazon instead? In this whole mess, HBO is the part of VOD we use and want to solve. I keep forgetting that they have anything else.


Yes. 7-day free trial; $15/month thereafter.

See here.


----------



## pdhenry

Yes. Outside of a bundle Comcast's price for HBO is the same as Amazon's, but you will gain the benefit of HBO OnDemand via the TiVo.


----------



## Bigg

Dan203 said:


> I didn't mean to say TiVo the company was dead. I said in a previous comment that TiVos retail cable device is going to die. I thought I said that here as well, but I said "TiVo is dead" and that's not exactly what I meant. I know you guys will likely continue in the OTA space, but that's pretty niche compared to cable. Less than 20% of US TV watchers even use OTA. (last poll I saw anyway)


Most of the cable markets uses rented/bundled DVRs from their MSO. While the proportion of OTA users who have a DVR is smaller than on cable, all of the users who do have to buy their own box, so there is a LOT more market opportunity out there for TiVo. Yes, a lot of people aren't getting OTA, but enough are that there's a significant market out there, especially if TiVo actually advertised it and got the word out about TiVo. TiVo's biggest threat in the retail market is being slow to market on ATSC 3.0, not cord cutting per se. Most likely, DVRs will be headless and become apps to be integrated through Apple TV or Roku, so that's the direction TiVo should be headed in, whether it's with a Bolt-like device that can be used with HDMI or headless, or a truly headless device.



WGB said:


> Do I understand from others that if I have an Amazon Prime subscription I can get HBO through that (for a fee) on my Tivo Pro? If that's the case, then when my Comcast contract ends in 2 months I can drop to a less expensive package and pay Amazon instead? In this whole mess, HBO is the part of VOD we use and want to solve. I keep forgetting that they have anything else. I ask because of Comcast blocking HBO GO on Tivo, so do they block the Amazon/HBO app?


Yup. And it's got much better video quality than HBO Go, which has much better video quality than anything Comcast delivers.


----------



## NashGuy

TiVo_Ted said:


> There is zero indication that linear TV support with Cablecard is going away, from Comcast or any other major US cable operator.


This seems to me like a disingenuous statement, given repeated reporting over the years from industry media (e.g. Light Reading), leaks of Comcast's internal road map, as well as recent consumer-facing developments at Comcast (e.g. by default serving most/all new TV customers 100% through IPTV and 0% via QAM).


----------



## hershey4

Here's the Xfinity Streaming VOD welcome info if anyone is not familiar with it:


----------



## TiVo_Ted

NashGuy said:


> This seems to me like a disingenuous statement, given repeated reporting over the years from industry media (e.g. Light Reading), leaks of Comcast's internal road map, as well as recent consumer-facing developments at Comcast (e.g. by default serving most/all new TV customers 100% through IPTV and 0% via QAM).


I'm sorry you feel that way, but the Cablecard sky has been falling for years:
Future of CableCARD - TiVo Blog
Future of CableCARD by EDITOR (102 pages and counting!)

Comcast's own FAQ still says What is a CableCARD? :
"Comcast is committed to working with manufacturers of retail devices, including manufacturers of CableCARD devices, in order to provide our customers with more choices to access and enjoy Xfinity TV services. Comcast will continue to support retail CableCARD-compatible devices well into the future."
For any questions about your CableCARD, please call 1-877-405-2298.

The contract we have with Comcast (mentioned in the above blog post) which requires Comcast to maintain Cablecard support for access to linear channels is still in effect. There are still 10's of millions of cable owned set-top boxes that use built-in Cablecards. It will be a long time before the cable industry (even Comcast) can think about replacing all of those boxes.


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## pdhenry

Makes me wonder what the eventual fee would be. I'd pay $5 for my Roku TV that's in a room without coax. $8 might be a bit high.


----------



## schatham

pdhenry said:


> Yes. Outside of a bundle Comcast's price for HBO is the same as Amazon's, but you will gain the benefit of HBO OnDemand via the TiVo.


But, you lose the ability to record HBO. I'll stick with recording over streaming any day on the Tivo. Plus I can still stream via the Roku.


----------



## pdhenry

Aside from issues with skipping ads (not part of the HBO experience), streaming makes recording much less important. I don't archive TiVo recordings.

Plus, there's playon.tv...


----------



## TonyD79

pdhenry said:


> Aside from issues with skipping ads (not part of the HBO experience), streaming makes recording much less important. I don't archive TiVo recordings.
> 
> Plus, there's playon.tv...


And hbo, ironically, has some of the best and most responsive trick play on every device I've viewed it on. (And the PQ is often better.)


----------



## mattack

TiVo_Ted said:


> There is zero indication that linear TV support with Cablecard is going away, from Comcast or any other major US cable operator.


Awesome.. since I think I would grudgingly be one of the cord cutters without Tivo for cable TV... (or would go back to an OTA Tivo).. even though I *do* use streaming services nowadays (unfortunately mostly because for me, the app downloading/streaming DOES NOT WORK -- and I would LOVE to be able to talk to tech people to give useful info to solve the problem)... I still tivo things as a backup.


----------



## krkaufman

NashGuy said:


> This seems to me like a disingenuous statement, given repeated reporting over the years from industry media (e.g. Light Reading), leaks of Comcast's internal road map, as well as recent consumer-facing developments at Comcast (e.g. by default serving most/all new TV customers 100% through IPTV and 0% via QAM).


Did the reply need to go with "disingenuous" as opposed to simply "incorrect" or "misinformed"?


----------



## morac

pdhenry said:


> Yes. Outside of a bundle Comcast's price for HBO is the same as Amazon's, but you will gain the benefit of HBO OnDemand via the TiVo.


I'll mention that Comcast offered me HBO for $10 a month for a year outside of a bundle after I added it myself via their web site and contacted their Facebook team asking if I did it correctly (I didn't even ask for that price), so it's possible to get it for cheaper than $15.


----------



## pdhenry

I once had a Double Play of limited basic (essentially locals, shopping channels and CSPAN) plus 25 Mbps internet because it was essentially the same price as just internet. It made sense because it gave me more channels than I could receive with a rooftop antenna. Then somehow I saw an "Internet Plus" bundle that added HBO and *cut* the rate by $5.


----------



## mschnebly

TiVo_Ted said:


> I'm sorry you feel that way, but the Cablecard sky has been falling for years:
> Future of CableCARD - TiVo Blog
> Future of CableCARD by EDITOR (102 pages and counting!)
> 
> Comcast's own FAQ still says What is a CableCARD? :
> "Comcast is committed to working with manufacturers of retail devices, including manufacturers of CableCARD devices, in order to provide our customers with more choices to access and enjoy Xfinity TV services. Comcast will continue to support retail CableCARD-compatible devices well into the future."
> For any questions about your CableCARD, please call 1-877-405-2298.
> 
> The contract we have with Comcast (mentioned in the above blog post) which requires Comcast to maintain Cablecard support for access to linear channels is still in effect. There are still 10's of millions of cable owned set-top boxes that use built-in Cablecards. It will be a long time before the cable industry (even Comcast) can think about replacing all of those boxes.


Maybe it's a location thing. I know in my area if you walk in to get new Comcast service you will walk out with an X1 box with no cable card. IPTV and cloud DVR. Folks in my area have been swapping out for the new boxes quickly as we keep getting letters warning us of the risk of losing service if we don't swap the box. We're in a little 12,000 people town on the outskirts of St Paul. I have a friend with one and it's a streaming box with no hard drive.


----------



## DigitalDawn

TiVo_Ted said:


> I'm sorry you feel that way, but the Cablecard sky has been falling for years:
> Future of CableCARD - TiVo Blog
> Future of CableCARD by EDITOR (102 pages and counting!)
> 
> Comcast's own FAQ still says What is a CableCARD? :
> "Comcast is committed to working with manufacturers of retail devices, including manufacturers of CableCARD devices, in order to provide our customers with more choices to access and enjoy Xfinity TV services. Comcast will continue to support retail CableCARD-compatible devices well into the future."
> For any questions about your CableCARD, please call 1-877-405-2298.
> 
> The contract we have with Comcast (mentioned in the above blog post) which requires Comcast to maintain Cablecard support for access to linear channels is still in effect. There are still 10's of millions of cable owned set-top boxes that use built-in Cablecards. It will be a long time before the cable industry (even Comcast) can think about replacing all of those boxes.


This is all great news, I had no idea TiVo had a contract with Comcast.

As you know from our emails, I was super upset about our community going with EPON, then suddenly a month ago we were told we were getting RFoG instead.

I have a bit more information about Comcast's move away from EPON. Apparently, *all* of Florida and parts of Georgia that are installing fiber systems will be using RFoG exclusively. I spoke to a Comcast Regional Director and he explained that EPON was incompatible with community Camera Feeds and that was the reason for the move back to RFoG. Great for all of us TiVo owners and we can keep our current cable modems as well.


----------



## slowbiscuit

TiVo_Ted said:


> There is zero indication that linear TV support with Cablecard is going away, from Comcast or any other major US cable operator. Regardless, you may have also noticed that TiVo is well underway with our support for IPTV - example: Armstrong Latest to Use TiVo's Next-Gen IPTV Platform This includes full network based IPTV (cloud DVR, etc.) as well as hybrid OTA products and hard drive based IPTV clients.
> 
> Also, our retail OTA business is growing 10% YoY and we recently showed a technology demo with ATSC3.0. My point in re-posting the old thread is that people have been forecasting the demise of TiVo since our IPO in 1999. And yet, we are still supporting over 20,000 customers who purchased lifetime service with their Series 2 devices in 2000-2001 for $199.99. How many 18 year old consumer electronics devices are you still using?


I said your future with *Comcast* IPTV, not your other stuff. Clearly Cablecard's days are numbered, even if Comcast has not stated an EOL for it. Years ago it was mentioned that Tivo was working with Comcast on IPTV, then there's been nothing since.

When does your contract with them expire?


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## slowbiscuit

TiVo_Ted said:


> I'm sorry you feel that way, but the Cablecard sky has been falling for years:
> Future of CableCARD - TiVo Blog
> Future of CableCARD by EDITOR (102 pages and counting!)
> 
> Comcast's own FAQ still says What is a CableCARD? :
> "Comcast is committed to working with manufacturers of retail devices, including manufacturers of CableCARD devices, in order to provide our customers with more choices to access and enjoy Xfinity TV services. Comcast will continue to support retail CableCARD-compatible devices well into the future."
> For any questions about your CableCARD, please call 1-877-405-2298.
> 
> The contract we have with Comcast (mentioned in the above blog post) which requires Comcast to maintain Cablecard support for access to linear channels is still in effect. There are still 10's of millions of cable owned set-top boxes that use built-in Cablecards. It will be a long time before the cable industry (even Comcast) can think about replacing all of those boxes.


From that *4-year old* blog:

_Moreover, in July 2014, we announced an agreement with Comcast that resulted in their commitment to continue to provide and support CableCARDs in TiVo retail devices for many years regardless of FCC requirements. Comcast will ensure that CableCARD-enabled devices will continue to have access to all linear channels in all Comcast markets *and has also partnered with TiVo to provide Xfinity On Demand* to TiVo Premiere and TiVo Roamio customers in all of Comcast's current markets. Under this arrangement, Comcast customers are able to use a TiVo Premiere or TiVo Roamio DVR purchased at retail or from TiVo.com to enjoy a fully-integrated offering of Comcast's robust library of Xfinity On Demand content, along with linear television and a range of broadband services, all accessible through TiVo's user interface and search capabilities.
_
And XOD is now going away, with a who knows when replacement.

C'mon man, give us a hint that there's a future of our hardware on Comcast without cards. Comcast can ditch cards at anytime on their own stuff, you know that. And they're already in the process of doing that with new installs now. At some point we're going to have issues with support or channel availability, at the least.

The linked FCC filing in that post indicates that you will be working with them on IPTV, so what happened?


----------



## NashGuy

krkaufman said:


> Did the reply need to go with "disingenuous" as opposed to simply "incorrect" or "misinformed"?


disingenuous:
not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.

For someone who should know quite a bit about the state of the industry, where it's going, and how it will impact TiVo, to say that there's "zero indication" that CableCARD support for linear TV is going away strikes me as, yes, _disingenuous_.


----------



## page7

NashGuy said:


> I'm wondering if this new app will just be the same Xfinity Stream app that they have on Roku and Samsung smart TVs and which Comcast has said will spread to additional platforms in 2019. That seems to be Comcast's entire app strategy going forward and the only means by which they plan to allow third-party devices to access their services. Although if TiVo insisted on it, I suppose Comcast might make a "truncated" version of the Stream app just for TiVo that doesn't contains live streaming channels or cloud DVR features, just VOD...


I'm not holding my breath for Tivo and Comcast to develop an app. This will never happen.


----------



## NashGuy

pdhenry said:


> Makes me wonder what the eventual fee would be. I'd pay $5 for my Roku TV that's in a room without coax. $8 might be a bit high.


If Comcast does start charging to use their Xfinity Stream app for Roku (or other TV-connected devices) as your "primary TV box," the maximum it will be is $5, since that's the new rental charge they're charging for their own IPTV boxes. But keep in mind that the new fee structure doesn't give you your first box for free as part of the programming charges. So if your TV package is $60, you can pay just $60 (plus tax, etc.) and exclusively watch via the Xfinity Stream app on various devices. For now, at least, that includes the app on Roku.

If you want to rent one TV box too, then your bill goes up to $65. It would seem odd, IMO, for them to change that a few months later to say, "and we'll also charge you that extra $5 to use your OWN Roku box on your primary TV. So either way, you'll pay $65 instead of $60." If that's the route they're going to go, why not have just stayed with the old fee structure, where service to the first "TV outlet" was included in the price of the programming package, and then you paid more per each additional box/outlet? Why not have just priced the package at $65, in other words, and said "You get one free X1 box included in the cost of your package or, if you prefer, you can use our app on your own Roku instead."


----------



## pdhenry

I only rent 2 Cable Cards, the Roku TV would be a third "outlet" (however the new pricing structure would apply there).


----------



## NashGuy

page7 said:


> I'm not holding my breath for Tivo and Comcast to develop an app. This will never happen.


Yeah, to be honest, you're probably right. Developing and supporting an app on yet another platform costs money and Comcast has always been very slow about supporting additional platforms. And TiVo users make up a very tiny sliver of Comcast TV subscribers, so (without even considering the legal antagonism between the two companies) Comcast probably doesn't see how developing a new app for TiVo makes sense financially. Comcast would rather TiVo users voluntarily move to their own X1 boxes and/or Xfinity Stream app on other devices and, as commenters in this thread make clear, the death of the XOD app on TiVo is prompting those moves.

The only reason why I think it might make sense for Comcast to port their Xfinity Stream app to TiVo would be as a PR move to blunt the negative press they might get for completely dropping service to TiVo boxes (should they someday drop QAM TV and go all-IPTV). Bringing the app to TiVo would let them say that they went the extra mile to keep their customers' devices compatible with their service. But honestly, it would probably just be cheaper for Comcast to give each CableCARD user a free-for-life X1 IPTV box (e.g. Xi5) or Roku as a goodwill gesture to keep them on as happy Xfinity TV subscribers.


----------



## NashGuy

pdhenry said:


> I only rent 2 Cable Cards, the Roku TV would be a third "outlet" (however the new pricing structure would apply there).


Hmm, hard to know. We don't know if/when Comcast will change the outlet/box fee structure for existing customers like you to the new fee structure that they're using for new sign-ups. And it isn't clear if they've ever had any intention of charging for Roku on secondary outlets. Note the wording in the disclosure shown in the photo posted earlier; it specifically mentions that after the beta, the user might be charged for using the Roku app as their "primary TV box" with no other Comcast-rented box on the account. Since you already have Comcast-rented CableCARDs on your account for your primary TV, maybe there wouldn't be a charge for the Roku (assuming that they ever charge _anyone_ for it, which I somewhat doubt, but we'll see).


----------



## pdhenry

I see it as having the potential to erode the number of hard-wired STBs which currently is a revenue stream in the form of additional outlet fees. I can't see them giving that away.


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## TiVo_Ted

NashGuy said:


> disingenuous:
> not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.
> 
> For someone who should know quite a bit about the state of the industry, where it's going, and how it will impact TiVo, to say that there's "zero indication" that CableCARD support for linear TV is going away strikes me as, yes, _disingenuous_.


I try to say as much as I can without violating NDA's or making material announcements. We are a public company after all. Having my hands tied about what I can share does not equal misdirection.

I've seen years and years of speculation in the media, but please give me an example of where a cable operator has stopped providing support for consumer devices using CableCARD for linear TV access. Just because Comcast is handing out IPTV boxes by default does not mean they won't keep supporting CableCARD devices for years to come.


----------



## NashGuy

TiVo_Ted said:


> I try to say as much as I can without violating NDA's or making material announcements. We are a public company after all. Having my hands tied about what I can share does not equal misdirection.


Yes, of course, I understand and respect that.



TiVo_Ted said:


> I've seen years and years of speculation in the media, but please give me an example of where a cable operator has stopped providing support for consumer devices using CableCARD for linear TV access. Just because Comcast is handing out IPTV boxes by default does not mean they won't keep supporting CableCARD devices for years to come.


I admit that it is by no means certain that Comcast will eventually completely abandon QAM TV, and therefore CableCARD. Maybe they'll still be offering linear channels via QAM, accessible to CableCARD TiVos, come 2030. Taking all available information into account, I highly doubt it but, hey, anything's possible.

What I specifically took issue with is your characterization that there's "zero indication" that they will eventually abandon linear-to-CableCARD. If you had said "Comcast has made zero statements, either publicly or directly to TiVo management, indicating plans to abandon linear-via-CableCARD," well, OK, that's not a statement with which I would quibble.


----------



## TiVo_Ted

No US cable MSO's have made statements to me (or by me, or around me, or near me, or within earshot of me) that indicates they have plans to end support for linear TV via CableCARD. If anyone has an example of a cable MSO ending support for CableCARD, please let me know.


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## pdhenry

@TiVo_Ted : Would you concur that the language in 47 CFR 76.1204 (a) (2) powers an MSO to abandon CableCARDs if they meet some requirements?


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## Bigg

TiVo_Ted said:


> The contract we have with Comcast (mentioned in the above blog post) which requires Comcast to maintain Cablecard support for access *to linear channels* is still in effect. There are still 10's of millions of cable owned set-top boxes that use built-in Cablecards. It will be a long time before the cable industry (even Comcast) can think about replacing all of those boxes.


That's great, but Comcast today has some channels that are not linear QAM. I played with my parents' XG1 the other day, and they have i24 and NewsMax distributed via IPTV, which a TiVo would not be able to tune. Further, there are the EPON communities that don't have QAM at all.



DigitalDawn said:


> I spoke to a Comcast Regional Director and he explained that EPON was incompatible with community Camera Feeds and that was the reason for the move back to RFoG. Great for all of us TiVo owners and we can keep our current cable modems as well.


Like local channels just for that community? Are they slotted in via QAM? My grandmother's place has a channel or two with bulletin boards of looping PPTs and one of community events for her complex of around 1000 units that are distributed via Comcast (I believe RFoG).



NashGuy said:


> Comcast probably doesn't see how developing a new app for TiVo makes sense financially. Comcast would rather TiVo users voluntarily move to their own X1 boxes and/or Xfinity Stream app on other devices and, as commenters in this thread make clear, the death of the XOD app on TiVo is prompting those moves.


And they know that if all of those TiVo subscribers cancel, they are the monopoly broadband provider in most of those areas, and they have data caps in many areas, so they will make almost as much money off of them regardless.



NashGuy said:


> I admit that it is by no means certain that Comcast will eventually completely abandon QAM TV, and therefore CableCARD. Maybe they'll still be offering linear channels via QAM, accessible to CableCARD TiVos, come 2030. Taking all available information into account, I highly doubt it but, hey, anything's possible.


70 lousy, awful SD channels via CableCard, everything else via IP. 



TiVo_Ted said:


> No US cable MSO's have made statements to me (or by me, or around me, or near me, or within earshot of me) that indicates they have plans to end support for linear TV via CableCARD. If anyone has an example of a cable MSO ending support for CableCARD, please let me know.


Comcast already did, for a couple of bulk deals. To be fair, it is mostly in bulk communities, with one small build out in Marlborough, MA that's mostly UG, and there are far more communities using DirecTV or U-Verse or something else that doesn't work with TiVo, or areas without cable at all, but they are a large cable MSO in the US and they have ended support for CableCard in a few places.

Xfinity Fiber-Only Network Now in Your Area

EPON. Found this link for comcast today. - Comcast XFINITY | DSLReports Forums

Comcast's Network Architecture - ppt video online download


----------



## wco81

Well that blows, another reason not to deal with Comcast.

Still hoping for uncapped Home 5G here ...


----------



## slowbiscuit

TiVo_Ted said:


> I try to say as much as I can without violating NDA's or making material announcements. We are a public company after all. Having my hands tied about what I can share does not equal misdirection.


So in other words, since you seem to be ignoring the question - you can't say anything about Comcast IPTV on Tivo. And by that I mean all DVR features supported, not a port of the Stream app.

Just come out and say that if you can't.


----------



## wco81

Ugh I used to use the Stream app. on my iPad.

Not bad but it would take awhile to navigate to the On Demand selection.

Tivo app. would let you select it and have it start playing on your Tivo.

Comcast won't even port the Stream app. to Apple TV. They want to force people onto their ****ty X1.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Yikes. Turn the temperature down a bit.

Ted, I definitely respect that you can't discuss certain things. Maybe this will work... The old Tivo blog post you linked to has the below statement in it. Is that already-announced agreement still relevant?

"As part of our agreement, Comcast has agreed to work with TiVo on a two-way non-CableCARD security solution that will enable retail devices to access the full Comcast lineup of linear and VOD programming, whether QAM- or IP-delivered."


----------



## NashGuy

wco81 said:


> Ugh I used to use the Stream app. on my iPad.
> 
> Not bad but it would take awhile to navigate to the On Demand selection.
> 
> Tivo app. would let you select it and have it start playing on your Tivo.
> 
> Comcast won't even port the Stream app. to Apple TV. They want to force people onto their ****** X1.


Comcast has been s-u-p-e-r s-l-o-w about expanding access to their Xfinity Stream app to additional platforms but I think that 2019 might be the year when we see it finally exit beta and spread beyond just Roku and Samsung smart TVs, now that they appear to be fully embracing IPTV distribution.

Per their own FAQ: "We anticipate adding more equipment manufacturers and devices during 2019."

Porting their existing iOS app to Apple TV would be trivial, so I imagine that will happen this year. Fire TV will probably happen too, given the popularity of that platform (and the fact that it shouldn't take too much effort to port the codebase from their current Android mobile app over to Fire TV, which is just a variant of Android).

As far as forcing people onto X1, note that their new TV sign-up process specifically offers the option not to pay for any X1 boxes but rather instead exclusively use the free Xfinity Stream app for viewing.

The future of Comcast (and perhaps all TV services) isn't to force you to use a specific device but rather to use a specific UI.


----------



## Davelnlr_

TiVo_Ted said:


> Just because Comcast is handing out IPTV boxes by default does not mean they won't keep supporting CableCARD devices for years to come.


My concern is once the majority of their customers are on IPTV, they won't have any incentive to keep linear channels active. Just like they gave out those little boxes for people with NTSC tuners, and then suddenly started charging them a big premium to use them forcing them to upgrade TV and/or pay an 'extra outlet fee'.

From what I read in the agreement:"
Comcast commits to continue to provide and support
CableCARDs in retail devices notwithstanding the D.C. Circuit's EchoStar decision last year
vacating certain CableCARD rules. Comcast will ensure that all CableCARD-enabled devices
will continue to have access to all linear channels in all Comcast markets."

It does not say they would maintain linear channels in all markets until no one has a Tivo with Cablecard using it.


----------



## pdhenry

Davelnlr_ said:


> It does not say they would maintain linear channels in all markets until no one has a Tivo with Cablecard using it.


The definition of "linear channels" includes real-time transmission of programming over IPTV, just not programming streamed to a specific user, so the statement is more in favor of CableCARDs than you're reading it.


----------



## Davelnlr_

I should have said linear channels via QAM. I would think if it was just an app installed by Tivo to enable IPTV, it would not require a cablecard at all, since Roku doesn't.


----------



## slowbiscuit

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Ted, I definitely respect that you can't discuss certain things. Maybe this will work... The old Tivo blog post you linked to has the below statement in it. Is that already-announced agreement still relevant?
> 
> "As part of our agreement, Comcast has agreed to work with TiVo on a two-way non-CableCARD security solution that will enable retail devices to access the full Comcast lineup of linear and VOD programming, whether QAM- or IP-delivered."


That's what I'm trying to find out, what has gone on since that agreement was reached *5 years ago*. My guess, given no further statements, the FCC failure to enforce access post-cards, and all the legal nonsense between them is a whole lot of nothing for a number of years.

But Ted won't say, and won't say if he can't say anything about Comcast IPTV on Tivo.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

NashGuy said:


> Comcast has been s-u-p-e-r s-l-o-w about expanding access to their Xfinity Stream app to additional platforms but I think that 2019 might be the year when we see it finally exit beta and spread beyond just Roku and Samsung smart TVs, now that they appear to be fully embracing IPTV distribution.
> 
> Per their own FAQ: "We anticipate adding more equipment manufacturers and devices during 2019."
> 
> Porting their existing iOS app to Apple TV would be trivial, so I imagine that will happen this year. Fire TV will probably happen too, given the popularity of that platform (and the fact that it shouldn't take too much effort to port the codebase from their current Android mobile app over to Fire TV, which is just a variant of Android).
> 
> As far as forcing people onto X1, note that their new TV sign-up process specifically offers the option not to pay for any X1 boxes but rather instead exclusively use the free Xfinity Stream app for viewing.
> 
> The future of Comcast (and perhaps all TV services) isn't to force you to use a specific device but rather to use a specific UI.


BestAppleTV reported that Comcast was not going to bring their Xfinity app to the Apple TV back in February and Comcast disputed the article but not so much the specifics about an Apple TV app, we can only hope they come to some kind of agreement though by the time they do TV will probably evolve again.

Comcast Disputes Report that it Won't Bring Xfinity Stream App to Apple TV


----------



## NashGuy

slowbiscuit said:


> That's what I'm trying to find out, what has gone on since that agreement was reached *5 years ago*. My guess, given no further statements, the FCC failure to enforce access post-cards, and all the legal nonsense between them is a whole lot of nothing for a number of years.
> 
> But Ted won't say, and won't say if he can't say anything about Comcast IPTV on Tivo.


Yeah, there's been so much water under the technological, regulatory, business and litigation bridges since that announcement 5 years ago that I wouldn't put any stock in it now, especially given that neither company has (to my knowledge) ever spoken of it since.


----------



## NashGuy

Dan203 said:


> Now as mentioned before if you could integrate TiVo's UI with one of the OTT skinny bundles out there, or roll your own skinny bundle, then I think TiVo could dominate the cord cutting market. Especially if you could seamlessly integrate local recording of OTA with this OTT skinny bundle. That would e a cord cutters dream.


Dave Shull Named TiVo CEO Amid Plan to Split Biz | Light Reading

Hey Dan, TiVo's new CEO just came from Vidgo, an OTT skinny bundle service company (i.e. vMVPD) in which he retains an equity position and a board seat.

Maybe this is the chance for your long-held dream to come true!


----------



## Bigg

NashGuy said:


> The future of Comcast (and perhaps all TV services) isn't to force you to use a specific device but rather to use a specific UI.


At which point they are just an app running on a managed network, with little to differentiate themselves from YouTube TV or Hulu Live TV. I feel like they still want to control the UX with their own box and remote for most people, but look "cool" at the same time with apps that few people use.


----------



## mschnebly

Bigg said:


> At which point they are just an app running on a managed network, with little to differentiate themselves from YouTube TV or Hulu Live TV. I feel like they still want to control the UX with their own box and remote for most people, but look "cool" at the same time with apps that few people use.


Yep, like I was saying, my friend with a new Comcast box says it's just a cheap Linux box running the Comcast app on startup with cloud DVR. That really simplifies the whole thing for Comcast. They will be able to do that on any comparable box and it will look and feel the same.


----------



## schatham

pdhenry said:


> Aside from issues with skipping ads (not part of the HBO experience), streaming makes recording much less important. I don't archive TiVo recordings.
> 
> Plus, there's playon.tv...


Another reason recording is better. This just happened this morning. I was going to resume a movie from Amazon prime, but alas, now they want $3.99 to rent it when it was free a few days ago.

I don't always have time to watch a 2 hour movie and watch 20 minutes at a time sometimes, so I like to know I can pick up where I left off.


----------



## NashGuy

schatham said:


> Another reason recording is better. This just happened this morning. I was going to resume a movie from Amazon prime, but alas, now they want $3.99 to rent it when it was free a few days ago.
> 
> I don't always have time to watch a 2 hour movie and watch 20 minutes at a time sometimes, so I like to know I can pick up where I left off.


Yeah, that stinks. I have seen some streaming apps put warnings in the UI alerting you that a particular title is leaving the service in X number of days. They should all do that. It wouldn't change the fact that the content is disappearing but at least it would help the user better plan their viewing.


----------



## TonyD79

schatham said:


> Another reason recording is better. This just happened this morning. I was going to resume a movie from Amazon prime, but alas, now they want $3.99 to rent it when it was free a few days ago.
> 
> I don't always have time to watch a 2 hour movie and watch 20 minutes at a time sometimes, so I like to know I can pick up where I left off.


CBS does this even with All Access. Programs that were included go into a purchase mode typically after a season is over. Big Bang and Young Sheldon are examples.


----------



## Beryl

TonyD79 said:


> CBS does this even with All Access. Programs that were included go into a purchase mode typically after a season is over. Big Bang and Young Sheldon are examples.


Well that blows. They are really against binge watching, no? How would new customers catch up?

I'm glad that they didn't do that with The Good Fight.


----------



## Bigg

Beryl said:


> Well that blows. They are really against binge watching, no? How would new customers catch up?


Yeah, I don't know what these companies are thinking. They probably aren't thinking, because as as soon as most people see that they have to pay, they'll jump to something else. I got sucked into Amazon Prime recently to watch back episodes of Veep (which is amazing and hilarious), and now I'm finding all sorts of content on Prime that i never knew they had, and my Watchlist is growing faster than I can watch it, it's nuts! My point being, there is so much content out there that people can easily move on from one thing to another if it's going to be too expensive, and you'd think that the content providers would understand this.


----------



## schatham

TonyD79 said:


> CBS does this even with All Access. Programs that were included go into a purchase mode typically after a season is over. Big Bang and Young Sheldon are examples.


Same happened to me using Roku Xfinity app. I never watched Life in Pieces and thought I'd try from season 1. They wanted me to pay for it, even though I get the channel. No thanks. This is even more reason to have a hard disk DVR.

I started using this app for on demand since the Tivo notice.


----------



## NashGuy

TonyD79 said:


> CBS does this even with All Access. Programs that were included go into a purchase mode typically after a season is over. Big Bang and Young Sheldon are examples.





Beryl said:


> Well that blows. They are really against binge watching, no? How would new customers catch up?
> 
> I'm glad that they didn't do that with The Good Fight.





schatham said:


> Same happened to me using Roku Xfinity app. I never watched Life in Pieces and thought I'd try from season 1. They wanted me to pay for it, even though I get the channel. No thanks. This is even more reason to have a hard disk DVR.
> 
> I started using this app for on demand since the Tivo notice.


These examples all stem from the fact that CBS doesn't OWN the series in question, with the exception of The Good Fight. All those other series are produced/distributed by outside companies. CBS just licenses those shows and therefore has broadcast and streaming rights for the current season only. (In the industry lingo, CBS has "in-season stacking rights" allowing them to stream those episodes on whatever apps and sites they want during the current season. Typical broadcast contracts include in-season stacking rights for the last five eps that have aired, although it's becoming more common that they include all eps of the current season.)

After the season ends, the company that produced and distributes the series can license it out to one or more streaming services for a certain number of years. If that company has their own streaming service, they might stream it there, possibly exclusively there. Big Bang Theory and Young Sheldon are both owned by Warner Bros. Television, which is a division of WarnerMedia. Guess where past seasons of those shows will likely appear and live happily ever after? On HBO Max, the forthcoming streaming service from WarnerMedia. (That said, Warner might decide there's more money to be made by also licensing them to one or more outside services, like Netflix or CBS All Access.)

Life in Pieces is produced by 20th Century Fox Television. The first season or two of that show went to Netflix for awhile after initially airing/streaming on CBS. But past seasons are now exclusively on Hulu, which isn't a surprise given that 20th is now owned by Disney, who is also the majority owner of Hulu.

You can understand why the name of the game these days is to actually produce and OWN the content that you air, so that it can live indefinitely on your own streaming service. That's why The Good Fight on CBS AA comes from CBS Television Studios. HBO started this trend back in the 90s (which is why all those episodes of The Sopranos never left them). Now everyone is doing it, at least to some extent, with the exception of the Fox broadcast network. They have no associated streaming/subscription platform and have stated they have no plans to ever launch one.


----------



## pdhenry

schatham said:


> Same happened to me using Roku Xfinity app. I never watched Life in Pieces and thought I'd try from season 1. They wanted me to pay for it, even though I get the channel. No thanks. This is even more reason to have a hard disk DVR.


How does having a hard disk DVR help you catch up on a missed season?


----------



## JoeKustra

pdhenry said:


> How does having a hard disk DVR help you catch up on a missed season?


There are new programs every year. Sometime you don't have time to watch everything during the fall & winter. I have saved "The Rookie" since I put it low on my priority watch list. I like the characters, but until I watch it I can't decide if it's worth the time. Every year I will save a season of something for the summer "drought". I have the whole season of "S.W.A.T." waiting. I don't collect like some members, but I do like TV. Also it depends on viewing habits. I have three Roamio boxes with 3TB each. That's more than enough for me.


----------



## pdhenry

Could you accept an argument that your use case, which I understand to be recording entire seasons of a program in case they're any good, isn't typical?


----------



## schatham

pdhenry said:


> How does having a hard disk DVR help you catch up on a missed season?


It's a lesson to record instead of thinking I will just catch it on demand. This trend will only get worse.


----------



## Mikeguy

pdhenry said:


> Could you accept an argument that your use case, which I understand to be recording entire seasons of a program in case they're any good, isn't typical?


But it's also recording a show to binge at a future date, like when the weather gets cold or rainy.


----------



## pdhenry

Ok, well I do have a fairly large stack of Deadliest Catch episodes on standby. Mostly for the occasional glimpse of sorta-cousin Johnathan...


----------



## Bigg

I find this whole discussion about stuff not being bingeable to be sort of hilarious, since the most interesting stuff is on Amazon and Netflix now, not network TV, and most of those shows are originals. Sure, there is a ton of older stuff that they've licensed, but most of the interesting shows that people are watching and talking about are on Amazon and Netflix, or HBO back-catalog, all of which is easily bingeable and doesn't have the expiration issue.


----------



## NashGuy

I was surprised the other day as I looked through Showtime's on-demand streaming catalog to find that at least two of their older iconic original series, _Weeds_ and _Nurse Jackie, _were neither available there any longer after having been there for many years. I know most of their originals aren't produced in-house at CBS but, for those that aren't, I think Showtime procures a long-term license when they initially greenlight a new series. I guess the license had expired for those two shows. They're both on Netflix, though.


----------



## Mikeguy

NashGuy said:


> I was surprised the other day as I looked through Showtime's on-demand streaming catalog to find that at least two of their older iconic original series, _Weeds_ and _Nurse Jackie, _were neither available there any longer after having been there for many years. I know most of their originals aren't produced in-house at CBS but, for those that aren't, I think Showtime procures a long-term license when they initially greenlight a new series. I guess the license had expired for those two shows. They're both on Netflix, though.


The public library's DVD collection is a good thing.


----------



## TiVo_Ted

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Yikes. Turn the temperature down a bit.
> 
> Ted, I definitely respect that you can't discuss certain things. Maybe this will work... The old Tivo blog post you linked to has the below statement in it. Is that already-announced agreement still relevant?
> 
> "As part of our agreement, Comcast has agreed to work with TiVo on a two-way non-CableCARD security solution that will enable retail devices to access the full Comcast lineup of linear and VOD programming, whether QAM- or IP-delivered."


This statement is still true, and as I said, we are working together on a more modern solution.


----------



## TiVo_Ted

pdhenry said:


> @TiVo_Ted : Would you concur that the language in 47 CFR 76.1204 (a) (2) powers an MSO to abandon CableCARDs if they meet some requirements?


Honestly, I'm not sure I have the legal competency to answer that question.


----------



## mattack

Bigg said:


> I find this whole discussion about stuff not being bingeable to be sort of hilarious, since the most interesting stuff is on Amazon and Netflix now, not network TV, and most of those shows are originals. Sure, there is a ton of older stuff that they've licensed, but most of the interesting shows that people are watching and talking about are on Amazon and Netflix, or HBO back-catalog, all of which is easily bingeable and doesn't have the expiration issue.


Wait, are you claiming that Amazon and Netflix never expire anything? or do you just mean THEIR originals don't expire (duhh)?

Hulu definitely expires things.. e.g. S1 of A.P. Bio either just expired or is about to. I'd already watched them, but I noticed it because I tend to check Expiring *first thing* when I launch Hulu, because I want to WATCH shows. (... and unless CBS never expires anything, Hulu has the least bad UI for finding the stuff you've told them you're interested in that's expiring)

Though I've had cable for a long long time, I think by number, network shows are the vast majority of what I watch. (I did just finish up Miracle Workers, and am getting back to the most recent season I have recorded of that semi-anthology set in the rental house.. only because neither of them are streamable on services I have.)


----------



## mattack

Oh, and about the only thing I regularly record on HBO is Last Week, only so I can watch it in QuickPlay. I really really wish a streaming service would add something like QuickPlay (though 1.5 and 2x speeds too).


----------



## Bigg

mattack said:


> Wait, are you claiming that Amazon and Netflix never expire anything? or do you just mean THEIR originals don't expire (duhh)?


Their originals, but also a lot of content, especially on Amazon, seems to not expire, or they just have licensed it for a very long time.


----------



## mschnebly

Bigg said:


> Their originals, but also a lot of content, especially on Amazon, seems to not expire, or they just have licensed it for a very long time.


I go back and forth watching Netflix and Amazon too. They have so much new and interesting stuff that it's crazy. Maybe Amazon doesn't expire things yet because they have an almost unlimited amount of storage with AWS.


----------



## dianebrat

Bigg said:


> Their originals, but also a lot of content, especially on Amazon, seems to not expire, or they just have licensed it for a very long time.





mschnebly said:


> I go back and forth watching Netflix and Amazon too. They have so much new and interesting stuff that it's crazy. Maybe Amazon doesn't expire things yet because they have an almost unlimited amount of storage with AWS.


You folks clearly watch different content than I do on Amazon Prime, I'm routinely finding items that I added to my watchlist when they were on Prime expired when I go back to watch them a few months later.


----------



## Mikeguy

dianebrat said:


> You folks clearly watch different content than I do on Amazon Prime, I'm routinely finding items that I added to my watchlist when they were on Prime expired when I go back to watch them a few months later.


That would just tick me off . . . .


----------



## mschnebly

dianebrat said:


> You folks clearly watch different content than I do on Amazon Prime, I'm routinely finding items that I added to my watchlist when they were on Prime expired when I go back to watch them a few months later.


I'm usually watching their new original stuff. That hangs around.


----------



## samccfl99

FYI, I called Comcast today and they put it on file that I could pick up a box for free. The rep also told me that you can stream it on a ROKU...LOL. 

She also did not know anything about it being discontinued!!!

Better to pay the 30 bucks? Can it do anything For FREE (other than XOD)???


----------



## Bigg

mschnebly said:


> I go back and forth watching Netflix and Amazon too. They have so much new and interesting stuff that it's crazy. Maybe Amazon doesn't expire things yet because they have an almost unlimited amount of storage with AWS.


I think it's more to do with licensing than bandwidth or storage. They have structured their content such that most of it stays for a while. At least from what I've seen, and I could be missing stuff. It can also be deceiving, as occasionally something will leave Prime but still show up on Amazon to purchase.


----------



## pdhenry

samccfl99 said:


> Better to pay the 30 bucks? Can it do anything For FREE (other than XOD)???


The Roku? Yes.


----------



## primaryforce

samccfl99 said:


> FYI, I called Comcast today and they put it on file that I could pick up a box for free. The rep also told me that you can stream it on a ROKU...LOL.
> 
> She also did not know anything about it being discontinued!!!
> 
> Better to pay the 30 bucks? Can it do anything For FREE (other than XOD)???


I got the same story from the "non usa" customer service representative I spoke to but when I went to the Xfinity Store I was informed that there was no code entered in the system that would enable me to get a "free" set top box. Since I was on the "legacy" plan, they informed me that I would be charged $8.65/month for the set top box. In the meantime I ordered a Roku Express from Amazon and didn't have the energy to argue with Xfinity "seviceless" representative. I am planning on returning the "set top box" to their store this week to avoid be charged a monthly fee. My other concerns is that tonight I tried to watch the last episode of Chernobyl on my Roku express and received a "no connection" error. Fortunately, my Tivo Xfinity Stream was still working.


----------



## mschnebly

primaryforce said:


> I got the same story from the "non usa" customer service representative I spoke to but when I went to the Xfinity Store I was informed that there was no code entered in the system that would enable me to get a "free" set top box. Since I was on the "legacy" plan, they informed me that I would be charged $8.65/month for the set top box. In the meantime I ordered a Roku Express from Amazon and didn't have the energy to argue with Xfinity "seviceless" representative. I am planning on returning the "set top box" to their store this week to avoid be charged a monthly fee. My other concerns is that tonight I tried to watch the last episode of Chernobyl on my Roku express and received a "no connection" error. Fortunately, my Tivo Xfinity Stream was still working.


Almost everyone I know around here that has called in and negotiated (*****ed) has a free set top box from Xfinity.


----------



## samccfl99

primaryforce said:


> My other concerns is that tonight I tried to watch the last episode of Chernobyl on my Roku express and received a "no connection" error. Fortunately, my Tivo Xfinity Stream was still working.


Now getting a message like that is Not encouraging...

The 20 best free Roku channels for movies and TV shows

So is it really worth the 30 bucks? Probably won't use it much...

PS, I would really be pissed off if I got to the "store" and they told me what they told you...


----------



## stevepow

We record because sometimes the cable is out and we still want to watch our regular shows - although, I have let a series pile up and binged during the slow season. Recording, that's the "R" in DVR. Having access to what I want to watch without worrying about how well the internet is working might be old school, but it is reliable. How often is the cable out? Rarely, yet, a DVR is a nice thing. I hate our Xfinity box - and for multiple TVs, their satellite setup is too expensive.


----------



## Yuterald

pdhenry said:


> Ok, well I do have a fairly large stack of Deadliest Catch episodes on standby. Mostly for the occasional glimpse of sorta-cousin Johnathan...


I have grown tired of watching a season of a new show to find out it's been canceled. So I love the ability to drop in a HUGE harddrive in my Bolt and recording entire seasons of shows and then binge-watching them (skipping commercials which you can't do with the Xfinity App) if they're coming back. I did this with the show Manifest. I waited to find out they were doing a Season 2 so I've now watched all the episodes. Another point - items in the cloud mean you always need an 'active' internet link. I don't want to rely on how good my connection/speed is that day/time to stream a show and I too hate going to Amazon Prime to find a season I have to pay for and I hate using the Xfinity app remotely to find out certain shows can ONLY be viewed via wi-fi!


----------



## dswallow

This idiocy is getting on my nerves... with all the new, modern means of viewing a show, we're not relying on traditional ratings collection methods anymore. Holding on to a program and not watching out of fear it won't be renewed is certainly not helping it get renewed. If you have a TiVo or are using a streaming method of any sort, your view is potentially counted by the media owner. I know that's a different issue than a desire to just binge-watch a program, which enables a more focused immersion into the content, but it's something to think about before just blindly not watching something that actually interests you enough to have "collected" it.


----------



## JoeKustra

Yuterald said:


> I have grown tired of watching a season of a new show to find out it's been canceled.


Another example: The Fix. No season 2.


----------



## Yuterald

dswallow said:


> This idiocy is getting on my nerves... with all the new, modern means of viewing a show, we're not relying on traditional ratings collection methods anymore. Holding on to a program and not watching out of fear it won't be renewed is certainly not helping it get renewed. If you have a TiVo or are using a streaming method of any sort, your view is potentially counted by the media owner. I know that's a different issue than a desire to just binge-watch a program, which enables a more focused immersion into the content, but it's something to think about before just blindly not watching something that actually interests you enough to have "collected" it.


If I RECORD the show you're telling me it's as if I didn't WATCH it?! Now that's a first I've heard of that. Where's the proof? How does 'anyone' know that if I recorded it that doesn't mean I WATCHED it the same time?


----------



## pdhenry

Nielsen only tracks what people watch, whether live or recorded.

If you're not a Nielsen family it doesn't matter.


----------



## Yuterald

Therefore whether I binge or not the 'impact' is the same. Cheers!


----------



## laria

Yuterald said:


> If I RECORD the show you're telling me it's as if I didn't WATCH it?! Now that's a first I've heard of that. Where's the proof? How does 'anyone' know that if I recorded it that doesn't mean I WATCHED it the same time?


They report various statistics for delayed viewing. So, they don't know that you didn't watch it live, but they do know if you played it from Now Playing in a certain time frame after it aired.


----------



## Yuterald

laria said:


> They report various statistics for delayed viewing. So, they don't know that you didn't watch it live, but they do know if you played it from Now Playing in a certain time frame after it aired.


Thanks. Which means 'nothing' since there are some shows I save and watch more than once.


----------



## laria

pdhenry said:


> Nielsen only tracks what people watch, whether live or recorded.
> 
> If you're not a Nielsen family it doesn't matter.


It doesn't matter for Nielsen ratings, but they are still aggregated and reported.

Are DVR viewings factored into TV ratings? (the second page mostly talks about the what they care about for DVR viewing)


----------



## laria

Yuterald said:


> Thanks. Which means 'nothing' since there are some shows I save and watch more than once.


Well, it means something if you watched it the first time in the time period they care about.  Which for Nielsen is Live-Plus-Same-Day, Live-Plus-Three, and Live-Plus-Seven. I don't know for sure that aggregated non-Nielsen data is reported on the same way, but I think you can generally assume they mostly care if you watched it within a few days to a week of the original airing.


----------



## DeltaOne

laria said:


> They report various statistics for delayed viewing. So, they don't know that you didn't watch it live, but they do know if you played it from Now Playing in a certain time frame after it aired.


I kinda, sorta remember hearing they do know if a show is DVR'd, but it has to be watched within four days to be considered "viewed."

Ah...the google found this:

-----
_Most networks use Nielsen's Live Plus service to track ratings. Live Plus looks at who watched shows on their DVRs within different time frames. Generally, it tracks three major categories: Live-Plus-Same-Day, Live-Plus-Three and Live-Plus-Seven. Each one looks at a broader timeframe, so Live-Plus-Same-Day looks not only at who was watching when the show aired, but also who watched the show that day and the next. Live-Plus-Three and Live-Plus-Seven track who watched within three and seven days of the original airing, respectively. When Nielsen first rolled out its Live Plus service, network executives were uncertain, but it's become an industry standard._
-----


----------



## NashGuy

JoeKustra said:


> Another example: The Fix. No season 2.


Honestly, that's one reason why I gave up on watching serialized dramas on the 4 major broadcast networks. I'd gotten burned too many times in past years when writers, not knowing if their show would get renewed, would end the season on a cliffhanger, hoping that would create viewer demand to bring the show back, and yet the network still decided, "Nah, cancel it." The broadcast nets are notoriously fickle and don't really care about storytelling, artistry, their relationship with the viewer, etc., they just care about ratings.

That kind of scenario is much rarer on subscription services like HBO, Netflix, etc. (which also tend to just have better dramas in general, in part because they're able to attract better talent).


----------



## wmcbrine

Yuterald said:


> How does 'anyone' know that if I recorded it that doesn't mean I WATCHED it the same time?


- If your recording was made on a tuner other than the one currently selected for display, or
- you were watching something else (a previous recording) at the time, or
- your TiVo was in Standby,

it's pretty easy to conclude that you weren't watching. If the TiVo is smart enough, it could even tell whether the attached TV was actually on or not at the time.


----------



## cwteevee

mschnebly said:


> Almost everyone I know around here that has called in and negotiated (*****ed) has a free set top box from Xfinity.


I called today, asked to be transferred to the loyalty department, and spoke to someone in "Customer Solutions." His non-solution was to tell me to buy a Roku. (Also, claimed that I no longer get the customer supplied equipment credit of $2.50 because of some new law that was passed.)


----------



## Mikeguy

wmcbrine said:


> - If your recording was made on a tuner other than the one currently selected for display, or
> - you were watching something else (a previous recording) at the time, or
> - your TiVo was in Standby,
> 
> it's pretty easy to conclude that you weren't watching. If the TiVo is smart enough, it could even tell whether the attached TV was actually on or not at the time.


Plus, our technology is examining the pixels on our televisions to tell what we are watching.  (Not really joking.)


----------



## wmcbrine

Mikeguy said:


> Plus, our technology is examining the pixels on our televisions to tell what we are watching.  (Not really joking.)


And I'm not joking at all when I say that the TiVo logs every single remote button press. (It's really not that much data.) That's how they can report on, e.g., the most-rewound Superb Owl commercials.


----------



## pdhenry

Mikeguy said:


> Plus, our technology is examining the pixels on our televisions to tell what we are watching.  (Not really joking.)


My Samsung smart TV is connected only to a TiVo via HDMI yet it can display information about the show I'm watching, so yes, I agree.

(I know I could disabled that feature. Meh.)


----------



## Bigg

Yuterald said:


> I don't want to rely on how good my connection/speed is that day/time to stream a show and I too hate going to Amazon Prime to find a season I have to pay for and I hate using the Xfinity app remotely to find out certain shows can ONLY be viewed via wi-fi!


These dumbasses who own the content are shooting themselves in the foot. The XFinity streaming is a nightmare because of rights restrictions, as are a number of other services. With different rules for each, it just makes the whole thing much harder to figure out. Meanwhile, the streaming providers offer the same experience on all devices, in any location, at least for a given point in time. They do need to figure out a better way to deal with content coming on and off and offer a way to show you what's on your Watchlist that's expiring soon.



pdhenry said:


> Nielsen only tracks what people watch, whether live or recorded.
> 
> If you're not a Nielsen family it doesn't matter.


What I don't get is why they don't use actual data. Comcast, AT&T and other MSOs have pretty detailed data from their boxes. It's not 100% of what is viewed, but it's a pretty good snapshot. However, that's also why Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu have a huge advantage. They have exact ratings, including when people stop watching something in real time.


----------



## heyted

cwteevee said:


> I called today, asked to be transferred to the loyalty department, and spoke to someone in "Customer Solutions." His non-solution was to tell me to buy a Roku. (Also, claimed that I no longer get the customer supplied equipment credit of $2.50 because of some new law that was passed.)


If you or others reading this are contemplating using a Roku for XVOD, keep in mind there may be extra fees as described here and previously in this thread. I am not aware of any new law affecting the customer owned equipment credit. See the first paragraph on this tedsblog.org post which is still applicable, or see the second bullet point from this document directly from the FCC.


----------



## ashipkowski

Bigg said:


> What I don't get is why they don't use actual data. Comcast, AT&T and other MSOs have pretty detailed data from their boxes. It's not 100% of what is viewed, but it's a pretty good snapshot. However, that's also why Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu have a huge advantage. They have exact ratings, including when people stop watching something in real time.


I suspect part of it is that boxes that can report back biases towards folks with bigger cable packages (I can't imagine Comcast DTAs report back), as well as wanting to make sure they've got their sample sizes right. Additionally, uncertainty about whether the boxes know that the TV is tuned to them would play a big role -- I'm sure the use of receivers gets confusing on that front.

A friend of mine is a Nielsen tech. Per him, the way the Nielsen boxes work is to tap TV Audio out (or, in extremity, a microphone placed near the TV) and do audio fingerprinting on what is being played back. This is immune to boxes that don't report, setups where all inputs appear to have a valid HDMI connection at the other end even when not displayed, etc. Even then, they did trial technology to identify whether folks were paying attention based on eye-scanning, but my understanding is they wound up not deploying that.

All that said, I'd imagine NBC makes use of some data from the Comcast boxes, though they need to be careful about the various biases in play.


----------



## chiguy50

NashGuy said:


> *The broadcast nets* are notoriously fickle and *don't really care about storytelling, artistry, their relationship with the viewer, etc., they just care about ratings.*
> 
> That kind of scenario is much rarer on subscription services like HBO, Netflix, etc. (which also tend to just have better dramas in general, in part because they're able to attract better talent).


I agree with your characterization above of their progamming, and this is the reason that it has been many years since I have watched ANYTHING on the broadcast networks other than a professional sports event. Their vapid offerings are nothing but pablum for the masses in my eyes. If not for a handful of the cable networks we would not be watching any linear TV at all.


----------



## slowbiscuit

heyted said:


> If you or others reading this are contemplating using a Roku for XVOD, keep in mind there may be extra fees as described here and previously in this thread.


And it has been mentioned here before that the Roku XOD app has been in 'beta' for two years now, with no end in sight (and therefore no Comcast charges). Plus the Roku is a far superior streaming device than Tivo, so if you have to drop XOD you still have a nice streamer for low money.


----------



## NashGuy

Bigg said:


> These dumbasses who own the content are shooting themselves in the foot. The XFinity streaming is a nightmare because of rights restrictions, as are a number of other services. With different rules for each, it just makes the whole thing much harder to figure out. Meanwhile, the streaming providers offer the same experience on all devices, in any location, at least for a given point in time. They do need to figure out a better way to deal with content coming on and off and offer a way to show you what's on your Watchlist that's expiring soon.


Yep. I expect this to be one of things that AT&T harps on when they launch their new TV service (I expect it to simply be named "AT&T TV") later this summer. It's going to be marketed as a flagship TV service, the kind that grown-ups watch in their homes on actual TVs, with the option to use a dedicated box and remote custom-designed for it. (In other words, a direct competitor to Xfinity TV.) But because it'll be based on the current DirecTV Now streaming cable TV service -- using the same OTT cloud-based streaming platform and the same contracts with the networks/content providers -- with the exception of a few live sports events, this service will offer full access across any screen, whether in-home or out-of-home, whether on wifi or cellular. All of your live channels, all of your cloud DVR, the entire VOD library.

Basically, the Netflix model of "full access on any device, anywhere, with any internet connection, with access charges based on the number of simultaneous streams allowed" is spreading to traditional cable TV.


----------



## TonyD79

Netlfix model? Jeez, those guys get credit for things they didn’t do. MLB had that model years before netlfix, for example.


----------



## NashGuy

TonyD79 said:


> Netlfix model? Jeez, those guys get credit for things they didn't do. MLB had that model years before netlfix, for example.


And Xerox invented the GUI and mouse but the Apple Macintosh gets credit for popularizing those innovations and making them mainstream features that changed the world.


----------



## KevTech

cwteevee said:


> (Also, claimed that I no longer get the customer supplied equipment credit of $2.50 because of some new law that was passed.)


On the Cablecard page it still says you get the discount.


----------



## morac

KevTech said:


> On the Cablecard page it still says you get the discount.
> 
> View attachment 41375


Technically it says you "may" get the discount, not that you will get it.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

NashGuy said:


> And Xerox invented the GUI and mouse but the Apple Macintosh gets credit for popularizing those innovations and making them mainstream features that changed the world.


"You and I are both like guys who had this rich neighbor - Xerox - who left the door open all the time. And you go sneakin' in to steal a TV set. Only when you get there, you realize that I got there first. I got the loot, Steve! And you're yellin'? "That's not fair. I wanted to try to steal it first." You're too late."


----------



## Bigg

ashipkowski said:


> I suspect part of it is that boxes that can report back biases towards folks with bigger cable packages (I can't imagine Comcast DTAs report back), as well as wanting to make sure they've got their sample sizes right. Additionally, uncertainty about whether the boxes know that the TV is tuned to them would play a big role -- I'm sure the use of receivers gets confusing on that front.


All true. There is some selection bias. But it could be used as another data point, because it's got to be better than Nielsen. As long as the data is handled knowing there's a bias in it, it would be pretty useful. I think the box can monitor if anything is powered up on the other end, but even if it can't you just have to make some arbitrary rule based on the last button press, which are all sent to the cloud in real-time. You also have to deal with people who nap when watching TV, so nothing's really perfect unless the X1 voice remote reports back snoring... but what if they don't snore?



> A friend of mine is a Nielsen tech. Per him, the way the Nielsen boxes work is to tap TV Audio out (or, in extremity, a microphone placed near the TV) and do audio fingerprinting on what is being played back.


With a teeny, tiny sample size compared to the sheer size of the X1 platform. Also, does Nielsen report in real-time like X1?



> All that said, I'd imagine NBC makes use of some data from the Comcast boxes, though they need to be careful about the various biases in play.


Ah, interesting thought. And another bad part of the merger is that NBCU/Comcast has data for ALL the channels they carry, and even though there are biases in there, it's in incredible detail.


----------



## TonyD79

NashGuy said:


> And Xerox invented the GUI and mouse but the Apple Macintosh gets credit for popularizing those innovations and making them mainstream features that changed the world.


Yes. Because Mlb tv went out of business and was never popular.


----------



## Davelnlr_

Note in the quote from Xfinity is says Xfinity TV package that includes equipment.
The new packages do NOT all include equipment. Those that do not probably no longer give the credit. 
I stopped getting the credit when I resigned my two year contract last month.


----------



## NashGuy

Davelnlr_ said:


> Note in the quote from Xfinity is says Xfinity TV package that includes equipment.
> The new packages do NOT all include equipment. Those that do not probably no longer give the credit.
> I stopped getting the credit when I resigned my two year contract last month.


Yep. Sign up for new Xfinity TV service on their website today (around these parts, anyhow) and the packages just include the channels, whatever VOD comes with them, plus 20 hours of cloud DVR (except for the cheapest Basic package, which has none). If you want to rent IPTV boxes from Comcast (as opposed to just using the Xfinity Stream app), you pay $5 per box per month.

The website gives no indication but I suppose that if you sign up under that system and rent no boxes that you could call Comcast and request a CableCARD from them to use with your package. I don't know if they'd give you one for free or maybe charge $2.50/mo for it but they're definitely not going to reduce the price of your package by $2.50.


----------



## KevTech

Davelnlr_ said:


> Note in the quote from Xfinity is says Xfinity TV package that includes equipment.
> The new packages do NOT all include equipment. Those that do not probably no longer give the credit.
> I stopped getting the credit when I resigned my two year contract last month.


I just started a new two year contract on a package that does not include equipment and still get the 2.50 credit for customer owned equipment.


----------



## Davelnlr_

That is what I love about Xfinity. Their consistency from city to city


----------



## Yuterald

wmcbrine said:


> - If your recording was made on a tuner other than the one currently selected for display, or
> - you were watching something else (a previous recording) at the time, or
> - your TiVo was in Standby,
> 
> it's pretty easy to conclude that you weren't watching. If the TiVo is smart enough, it could even tell whether the attached TV was actually on or not at the time.


Well in that case they think I watch a LOT of shows since I NEVER put my Bolt in StandBy or 'off' - so all 4 tuners are on 24x7!!


----------



## wmcbrine

Yuterald said:


> Well in that case they think I watch a LOT of shows since I NEVER put my Bolt in StandBy or 'off' - so all 4 tuners are on 24x7!!


That was only the third item in that list. They can tell which tuner is foregrounded, so no, only (at most) one tuner ever gets counted as "watched".


----------



## samccfl99

Has anyone noticed that Almost All the episodes of Bill Maher on HBO on Demand are gone and that there is no more Overtime entries? I wonder if that only affects the Tivo app interface? I will have to go to a friend and see if it is the same in his X1.


----------



## JoeKustra

Last week's Overtime, Monologue, and Interview are on YouTube.


----------



## samccfl99

JoeKustra said:


> Last week's Overtime, Monologue, and Interview are on YouTube.


Of course I know that! Easier on XOD. But they are all gone. No comment on that, eh?


----------



## JoeKustra

samccfl99 said:


> Of course I know that! Easier on XOD. But they are all gone. No comment on that, eh?


I don't have HBO, etc. but every quarter I get a free weekend which reminds me why I don't have HBO, etc..


----------



## chiguy50

samccfl99 said:


> Of course I know that! Easier on XOD. But they are all gone. No comment on that, eh?


HBO GO has a full complement of Real Time with Bill Maher shows and clips, including Overtime clips. Here is just a small sample:


----------



## laria

chiguy50 said:


> HBO GO has a full complement of Real Time with Bill Maher shows and clips, including Overtime clips.


That would be a great alternative... if we could get HBO GO on our TiVos.


----------



## chiguy50

laria said:


> That would be a great alternative... if we could get HBO GO on our TiVos.


As has been discussed in this thread, you can access HBO GO via your Comcast HBO subscription on any currently available Roku streaming device for $35 or less. I purchased a factory-refurbished Roku Ultra for $60, but any model will do the trick.

There you can watch HBO programming live via the Xfinity Stream channel (app) by selecting "Live TV" or watch on-demand either via Xfinity Stream or HBO GO. My initial impression is that the video quality is higher on HBO GO so that is what I am now using for ALL of my HBO viewing.


----------



## inaka

chiguy50 said:


> As has been discussed in this thread, you can access HBO GO via your Comcast HBO subscription on any currently available Roku streaming device for $35 or less. I purchased a factory-refurbished Roku Ultra for $60, but any model will do the trick.
> 
> There you can watch HBO programming live via the Xfinity Stream channel (app) by selecting "Live TV" or watch on-demand either via Xfinity Stream or HBO GO. My initial impression is that the video quality is higher on HBO GO so that is what I am now using for ALL of my HBO viewing.


But this is a tivo forum, so most of us have tivo's and don't want to pay extra for something that should be accessible from the tivo itself.
Many of us have multiple tivos, and even if the Roku is an option, you need to multiply that by the number of Tvs, when we all have tivo boxes already that are perfectly capable of doing this if not for some lockdown by Xfinity.


----------



## laria

Of course you can get it on another device... but like inaka said, this is a TiVo forum and we're specifically talking about the loss of the app from our TiVo where we were getting content, and now cannot get it from.


----------



## chiguy50

inaka said:


> But this is a tivo forum, so most of us have tivo's and don't want to pay extra for something that should be accessible from the tivo itself.
> Many of us have multiple tivos, and even if the Roku is an option, you need to multiply that by the number of Tvs, when we all have tivo boxes already that are perfectly capable of doing this if not for some lockdown by Xfinity.


Yes, yes, I know.

I, too, have a TiVo (Roamio Pro)--my third generation of TiVo DVR's--and a Mini, which represent a hefty financial investment. Nonetheless, XoD was never a selling feature of any TiVo device but rather a pleasant addition (I can vaguely remember when it first appeared). If you were never promised the feature in the first place you can hardly justify feeling shortchanged when it is no longer supported--particularly when the fault lies in a third party (Comcast).

I understand and share your sense of loss; I relied on XoD on my Roamio for various purposes, both searching for or previewing movies and the occasional on-demand viewing. But the fact is that the XoD app, which was always only marginally useful, had been steadily losing functionality on TiVo for years to the extent that its contents were not being included in typical data base searches (such as Watch now > See all options).

Besides which, there is no point in crying over spilled milk. Just grab a mop (Roku) and carry on. Or find a better solution that works for you.

And, of course, you can always just use the free Xfinity Stream app on your favorite mobile device. That's the no-cost solution.


----------



## inaka

chiguy50 said:


> Nonetheless, XoD was never a selling feature of any TiVo device but rather a pleasant addition (I can vaguely remember when it first appeared). If you were never promised the feature in the first place you can hardly justify feeling shortchanged when it is no longer supported--particularly when the fault lies in a third party (Comcast).


Tivos being capable of on-demand were not only a selling feature of the product, it was the reason I jumped from DirecTV to Comcast way back when.
DTV had terrible "on-demand" service at the time. (I put that in quotes because it was barely what we consider "on demand" today). So I wanted to switch to cable (Comcast) but wanted to keep using a Tivo, and didn't want to have no on-demand at all. Once Tivo announced you could use their boxes with Comcast, and view on-demand content, I was sold. I even remember when they were testing it out in certain markets, and it wasn't available everywhere, but my market got it fairly early (if not the first in the entire country). It was great and I switched to Tivo/Comcast.

Of course On-Demand was used as a selling point with Tivo/Comcast (from 2011):
TiVo and Comcast Team Up to Offer Xfinity On Demand Library to TiVo® Premiere Users - TiVo Blog

What you said isn't true at all.


----------



## chiguy50

inaka said:


> Of course On-Demand was used as a selling point with Tivo/Comcast (from 2011):
> TiVo and Comcast Team Up to Offer Xfinity On Demand Library to TiVo® Premiere Users - TiVo Blog
> 
> What you said isn't true at all.


I can see how you might feel justified in relying on that blog post as a promised feature. But that is not what it says. There are enough caveats in that article ("select markets," "many of its largest markets," "a plan for additional markets to follow," "find out if Xfinity On Demand is available on TiVo Premiere in your area," et al) to signal that it is not a promised feature for all users. The article also highlights that TiVo remains reliant on Comcast's collaboration in providing the functionality. One can easily infer that this is not something that TiVo can promise to maintain.

And as anyone with experience in the A/V marketplace should know, you CAN NOT reasonably rely on a feature set that is not listed in the manufacturer's product specifications. We were gifted with XoD as an add-on feature and should be happy that we had it for as long as it lasted. Now it is time to move on--and if that means selling your TiVo for something that suits your needs better, so be it.


----------



## chiguy50

inaka said:


> Tivos being capable of on-demand were not only a selling feature of the product, it was the reason I jumped from DirecTV to Comcast way back when.


This is an area where I feel you are on firmer ground in your complaint. TiVo promised an integrated media device on which you could access and record CTV and/or OTA content as well as on-demand sources (see "OnePass"). But the unfortunate fact is that no TiVo has ever included every conceivable streaming media app, and the OnePass has always had its limitations.


----------



## inaka

chiguy50 said:


> I can see how you might feel justified in relying on that blog post as a promised feature. But that is not what it says. There are enough caveats in that article ("select markets," "many of its largest markets," "a plan for additional markets to follow," "find out if Xfinity On Demand is available on TiVo Premiere in your area," et al) to signal that it is not a promised feature for all users. The article also highlights that TiVo remains reliant on Comcast's collaboration in providing the functionality. One can easily infer that this is not something that TiVo can promise to maintain.


There are no caveats in that tivo announcement. It _was_ available in my market, that's why I wanted it.
There "caveats" you're describing apply simply to *when* it will be available in other _other_ Comcast/Xfinity markets, not if.

And that's only because it was announced in 2011, before all other Comcast markets went online. All Comcast markets eventually went online and could do on-demand with Tivo.

This was posted most definitely as a feature in Time and other news outlets too:
TiVo Gets Comcast's Xfinity on Demand | TIME.com

And like I said, I was happy to know that my market was the first in the nation to get it, and that's why I got the Tivo XL4 Premiere.
Yes, on-demand was most definitely a selling feature of the Tivo when I bought it, and long after. Saying it was never a selling feature is just flat out not true.

Suggesting to get a Roku as a solution on a Tivo forum when we are losing functionality we paid for, is like someone asking for help on a Lexus forum and the "solution" is to buy a Honda.


----------



## BNBTivo

inaka said:


> There are no caveats in that tivo announcement. It _was_ available in my market, that's why I wanted it.
> There "caveats" you're describing apply simply to *when* it will be available in other _other_ Comcast/Xfinity markets, not if.
> 
> And that's only because it was announced in 2011, before all other Comcast markets went online. All Comcast markets eventually went online and could do on-demand with Tivo.
> 
> This was posted most definitely as a feature in Time and other news outlets too:
> TiVo Gets Comcast's Xfinity on Demand | TIME.com
> 
> And like I said, I was happy to know that my market was the first in the nation to get it, and that's why I got the Tivo XL4 Premiere.
> Yes, on-demand was most definitely a selling feature of the Tivo when I bought it, and long after. Saying it was never a selling feature is just flat out not true.
> 
> Suggesting to get a Roku as a solution on a Tivo forum when we are losing functionality we paid for, is like someone asking for help on a Lexus forum and the "solution" is to buy a Honda.


The price difference between a cable box and a streamer is just a tad different than a Lexus and a Honda... It's more like someone suggesting a portable XM radio on a Tesla Model 3 (they don't have XM).

Anyways, I'd agree that on demand was a must for us. It was literally the reason why we dumped tivo and Comcast. Of course, now we are thanking them for giving us that push out the door. Turns out Roku is on to something... And we will enjoy the thousands of dollars saved.


----------



## NashGuy

inaka said:


> Suggesting to get a Roku as a solution on a Tivo forum when we are losing functionality we paid for, is like someone asking for help on a Lexus forum and the "solution" is to buy a Honda.


I read through your posts above. Understand how you feel. Now what do you plan to do?

Just as a flaw or lack of a particular feature prompted you to leave DirecTV for Comcast + TiVo, maybe this is the right time to consider moving on from Comcast + TiVo to one of the many other alternatives now available to you. There literally have never been more choices available to TV viewers in terms of service providers, content packages, access devices, features, and user interfaces. Hopefully you find one that works better for you than what you have now. Let us know if you have questions about the alternatives.


----------



## inaka

NashGuy said:


> I read through your posts above. Understand how you feel. Now what do you plan to do?
> 
> Just as a flaw or lack of a particular feature prompted you to leave DirecTV for Comcast + TiVo, maybe this is the right time to consider moving on from Comcast + TiVo to one of the many other alternatives now available to you. There literally have never been more choices available to TV viewers in terms of service providers, content packages, access devices, features, and user interfaces. Hopefully you find one that works better for you than what you have now. Let us know if you have questions about the alternatives.


My original plan was to just go from 2 Tivos, to 1 Tivo and 1 Xfinity X1 6-Tuner DVR.
I turned in the cable card to Comcast, tried out their X1 DVR and hated it. I turned it back into them and went with another option.

1 Tivo + 1 Tivo Mini (technically 2 Tivo mins since I already had one)
I now knocked off $10 off my bill since I don't have an additional outlet.

What about for On Demand? Well, I can watch it using the Xfinity Stream app on my iPad.

When I want to view On Demand _*on TV*_? I can use the Xfinity Stream app from my iPad and airplay it to my Apple TV. And before you say it can't be done, it actually can. I'm an Apple Developer and have a developer account and googled an easy way to do this. So I can remove the airplay restriction on the Xfinity app. So I'm covered, my bill went down, and I still have the tivo interface in every room. This isn't an option for some, but it is for me since I'm already an Apple Developer.


----------



## WGB

Some of these answers baffle me. The Xfinity app worked for a long time and allowed me to dump all Comcast boxes and their cost and buy tivos with minis to get all the functionality but only pay for 2 cable cards instead of essentially 5. I'm supposed to buy some other box for each of 4 tv's, or pick which ones I can watch on demand?

These are crappy answers for functionality that has been there in my tivos for a very long time now - you know - have one box that handles it all...

I don't know what my solution will be, but this has already taken an enormous amount of time to look into something that shouldn't be broken. And Tivo Ted says there will be a solution with not even the vaguest of timeframes...

Only crappy answers have been given.


----------



## chiguy50

inaka said:


> There are no caveats in that tivo announcement. It _was_ available in my market, that's why I wanted it.
> There "caveats" you're describing apply simply to *when* it will be available in other _other_ Comcast/Xfinity markets, not if.
> 
> And that's only because it was announced in 2011, before all other Comcast markets went online. All Comcast markets eventually went online and could do on-demand with Tivo.
> 
> This was posted most definitely as a feature in Time and other news outlets too:
> TiVo Gets Comcast's Xfinity on Demand | TIME.com
> 
> And like I said, I was happy to know that my market was the first in the nation to get it, and that's why I got the Tivo XL4 Premiere.
> Yes, on-demand was most definitely a selling feature of the Tivo when I bought it, and long after. Saying it was never a selling feature is just flat out not true.


If you honestly can not tell the difference between a news article or blog promo and a manufacturer's product specifications, then I guess nothing I can tell you will matter, and you will continue to court disappointment with your purchases. The fact remains that unless a given feature is listed in the seller's product documentation, then it might as well be vaporware. I gather that the TiVo you have is a Premiere XL4, so I have attached the data sheet below. See if you can find where it lists Xfinity on Demand and I'll eat my hat. (In fact, just the opposite is true! Check out this footnote in the data sheet: "Certain advanced and interactive digital cable services *such as video-on-demand*, a cable operator's enhanced program guide and data-enhanced television services may require the use of a set-top box. For more information call your cable operator")



inaka said:


> Yes, on-demand was most definitely a selling feature of the Tivo when I bought it, and long after. Saying it was never a selling feature is just flat out not true.
> 
> Suggesting to get a Roku as a solution on a Tivo forum when we are losing functionality we paid for, is like someone asking for help on a Lexus forum and the "solution" is to buy a Honda.


Again, this is not a function that you "paid for" and it was never documented by the manufacturer (to the best of my knowledge) as a feature. You can rightly lament losing it, but your whole premise of entitlement is skewed and, frankly, unrealistic for the A/V marketplace, as I have previously noted. If you care to browse the AVSForum threads, for example, you will encounter innumerable examples of users who have found themselves forced to purchase ancillary equipment in order to get the desired results from even the most sophisticated gear. That's just the nature of the game when so much interoperability is called for involving various manufacturers, sources or technologies.


----------



## inaka

chiguy50 said:


> If you honestly can not tell the difference between a news article or blog promo and a manufacturer's product specifications, then I guess nothing I can tell you will matter


No idea why you feel the need to be insulting about this. Did you mean manufacturer specs like this?

Here's more info from Tivo's site again:

*TiVo and Comcast have partnered to give you the ability to access XFINITY On Demand through an application on your TiVo Roamio or Premiere. This feature is available to Comcast customers with a compatible TiVo device at no additional cost*; however, please be aware that Pay-Per-View ordered through the app will be charged to your Comcast bill.

If XFINITY On Demand is available in your area, you need to make sure your DVR meets the following requirements:

BOLT Series UES, Roamio or Premiere Series DVR
You or a Comcast installer has installed, configured, and paired a CableCARD.
Your DVR has a broadband connection (Ethernet, Wireless N or Wireless G, or MoCA).
Your DVR is running software 20.2.0a or higher.
Your Comcast cable package includes XFINITY On Demand (For this information you'll need to contact Comcast Customer Support.)​
https://support.tivo.com/articles/Troubleshooting/XFINITY-On-Demand-Requirements



chiguy50 said:


> Again, this is not a function that you "paid for" and it was never documented by the manufacturer (to the best of my knowledge) as a feature. You can rightly lament losing it, but your whole premise of entitlement is skewed and, frankly, unrealistic for the A/V marketplace, as I have previously noted. If you care to browse the AVSForum threads, for example, you will encounter innumerable examples of users who have found themselves forced to purchase ancillary equipment in order to get the desired results from even the most sophisticated gear. That's just the nature of the game when so much interoperability is called for involving various manufacturers, sources or technologies.


This is most definitely a feature they promoted on their web site, it's most definitely a feature I wanted, it's most definitely a feature I paid for, it's most definitely a feature that made me switch to my Premiere XL4/Comcast setup in the future, and I just because you keep saying it wasn't any of those things doesn't make it true.


----------



## chiguy50

WGB said:


> Some of these answers baffle me. The Xfinity app worked for a long time and allowed me to dump all Comcast boxes and their cost and buy tivos with minis to get all the functionality but only pay for 2 cable cards instead of essentially 5. I'm supposed to buy some other box for each of 4 tv's, or pick which ones I can watch on demand?
> 
> These are crappy answers for functionality that has been there in my tivos for a very long time now - you know - *have one box that handles it all...*
> 
> I don't know what my solution will be, but this has already taken an enormous amount of time to look into something that shouldn't be broken. And Tivo Ted says there will be a solution with not even the vaguest of timeframes...
> 
> Only crappy answers have been given.


That right there is the crux of the problem. "One box that handles it all" will always be severely compromised, particularly when that box was primarily designed as a Digital Video Recorder (or a Blu-ray player, or . . . ). Even the best dedicated media streamers have their shortfalls.

The simple fact is that TiVo has at its very best offered only mediocre streaming abilities. Just invest as little as $35 in a Roku stick and I think you will be thrilled at the upgrade.

I would dearly love to be able to do all my TV and streaming viewing on my Roamio Pro, but the experience is just not up to par. It's still the best mass-produced DVR ever sold on the retail market IMHO, and I do not regret the purchase for minute. You will have to pry it from my cold, dead fingers. But I have moved on for streaming--and now that includes XoD. It's really not the end of the world, trust me!


----------



## inaka

WGB said:


> Some of these answers baffle me. The Xfinity app worked for a long time and allowed me to dump all Comcast boxes and their cost and buy tivos with minis to get all the functionality but only pay for 2 cable cards instead of essentially 5. I'm supposed to buy some other box for each of 4 tv's, or pick which ones I can watch on demand?
> 
> These are crappy answers for functionality that has been there in my tivos for a very long time now - you know - have one box that handles it all...
> 
> I don't know what my solution will be, but this has already taken an enormous amount of time to look into something that shouldn't be broken. And Tivo Ted says there will be a solution with not even the vaguest of timeframes...
> 
> Only crappy answers have been given.


Exactly.


----------



## chiguy50

inaka said:


> No idea why you feel the need to be insulting about this. Did you mean manufacturer specs like this?
> 
> Here's more info from Tivo's site again:
> 
> *TiVo and Comcast have partnered to give you the ability to access XFINITY On Demand through an application on your TiVo Roamio or Premiere. This feature is available to Comcast customers with a compatible TiVo device at no additional cost*; however, please be aware that Pay-Per-View ordered through the app will be charged to your Comcast bill.
> 
> If XFINITY On Demand is available in your area, you need to make sure your DVR meets the following requirements:
> 
> BOLT Series UES, Roamio or Premiere Series DVR
> You or a Comcast installer has installed, configured, and paired a CableCARD.
> Your DVR has a broadband connection (Ethernet, Wireless N or Wireless G, or MoCA).
> Your DVR is running software 20.2.0a or higher.
> Your Comcast cable package includes XFINITY On Demand (For this information you'll need to contact Comcast Customer Support.)​
> https://support.tivo.com/articles/Troubleshooting/XFINITY-On-Demand-Requirements
> 
> This is most definitely a feature they promoted on their web site, it's most definitely a feature I wanted, it's most definitely a feature I paid for, it's most definitely a feature that made me switch to my Premiere XL4/Comcast setup in the future, and I just because you keep saying it wasn't any of those things doesn't make it true.


I'm sorry that you feel insulted and I will not bother to respond to you anymore beyond repeating that you clearly do not comprehend the concept of product documentation. If there is any doubt in your mind, you might try consulting a lawyer about the merits of a lawsuit.

But this back and forth is not serving any useful purpose. Rather, you ought to refer to NashGuy's post above for further action.


----------



## laria

TiVo should get into the universal remote business, because one of the things keeping me from getting another box is that I just don't like using any of the Harmonys that we have had (880, One) or currently (650) have. I can't get a stick... my receiver has no where to plug in a stick.


----------



## inaka

chiguy50 said:


> I'm sorry that you feel insulted and I will not bother to respond to you anymore beyond repeating that you clearly do not comprehend the concept of product documentation. If there is any doubt in your mind, you might try consulting a lawyer about the merits of a lawsuit.


I didn't say _I'm_ insulted, I said you're being insulting. There's a difference. Clearly you don't comprehend the English language enough to understand the difference, and if you've lived this long on the plant and can't grasp this then there's no point in me expecting you to understand. If there is any doubt in your mind as to the difference, you might try consulting a dictionary or hiring an English tutor.
_
*(See how the sentence above is an a-hole sentence? I don't mean any of that, and I'm using that as an example of the tone of your posts to me, because that's the tone of all of your posts.)*_

Now back to the topic. On-Demand with Comcast/Tivo was definitely a feature that Tivo touted, they had it on their web site, they told you if you called in, it was definitely a feature that I wanted and paid for. I'm sure my car manual probably doesn't _explicitly_ say that my car should drive fine in the rain in San Diego, or it should drive when it's 80°F in Austin, TX. Does yours? But if my car oddly no longer drove in the rain in San Diego, or strangely broke down every time it hit when it's 80°F only in Austin, TX, that's the equivalent of you saying, "Well, they never said it would drive in the rain in San Diego, or that it would drive when it's 80°F in Austin, so that's not a feature you paid for." Absurd.

What your saying is not only false, it's absurd. On-Demand with Tivo was the reason I switched over to a Premiere/Comcast setup in the first place, and it was touted as a feature by Tivo. I've already shown you examples of this from Tivo's site. And yeah, it sucks that I feature I had, used, and paid for is now going away.


----------



## pdhenry

Yeah, they touted it, but the implementation sucked


----------



## samccfl99

chiguy50 said:


> And, of course, you can always just use the free Xfinity Stream app on your favorite mobile device. That's the no-cost solution.


Now who wants to do that? LOL. I need my 60" TV and Receiver!

So the Roku Express is $30 and the Premier is $40. I don't need any cable since I will be sharing it with my living room laptop, which is rarely used (except sometimes for Overtime and rare special ocassions) and I only got 4 HDMI inputs in the receiver. Not a problem.

Seems the only difference between the two is that the Premier has 4K (don't have one now). What you think? I guess it's better than taking a trip to Comcast and getting a free little X1 box, which they told me that they would do.


----------



## mschnebly

inaka said:


> There are no caveats in that tivo announcement. It _was_ available in my market, that's why I wanted it.
> There "caveats" you're describing apply simply to *when* it will be available in other _other_ Comcast/Xfinity markets, not if.
> 
> And that's only because it was announced in 2011, before all other Comcast markets went online. All Comcast markets eventually went online and could do on-demand with Tivo.
> 
> This was posted most definitely as a feature in Time and other news outlets too:
> TiVo Gets Comcast's Xfinity on Demand | TIME.com
> 
> And like I said, I was happy to know that my market was the first in the nation to get it, and that's why I got the Tivo XL4 Premiere.
> Yes, on-demand was most definitely a selling feature of the Tivo when I bought it, and long after. Saying it was never a selling feature is just flat out not true.
> 
> Suggesting to get a Roku as a solution on a Tivo forum when we are losing functionality we paid for, is like someone asking for help on a Lexus forum and the "solution" is to buy a Honda.


Well, it looks like you were lied to so.... You don't want to use another option? You just have to live without VOD. TiVo also sold us on "The one box to do it all" too but it's not. You really have two choices. No VOD or get another box (Roku, etc.) that has an app to get it.


----------



## chiguy50

samccfl99 said:


> Now who wants to do that? LOL. I need my 60" TV and Receiver!
> 
> So the Roku Express is $30 and the Premier is $40. I don't need any cable since I will be sharing it with my living room laptop, which is rarely used (except sometimes for Overtime and rare special ocassions) and I only got 4 HDMI inputs in the receiver. Not a problem.
> 
> Seems the only difference between the two is that the Premier has 4K (don't have one now). What you think? I guess it's better than taking a trip to Comcast and getting a free little X1 box, which they told me that they would do.


I have the Roku Ultra and it is my first Roku device, so I am not best suited to answer your question about the relative merits of the various models. If you do not need 4K resolution (or HDR). and do not anticipate needing it in the near future, then you can make do with a lesser model, such as the Express.

You might want to review and compare all of the features, though, so as to make an informed decision. You can also find refurbs at a small discount on Amazon and eBay.

Roku Streaming Products


----------



## chiguy50

mschnebly said:


> Well, it looks like you were lied to so.... You don't want to use another option? You just have to live without VOD. TiVo also sold us on "The one box to do it all" too but it's not. You really have two choices. No VOD or get another box (Roku, etc.) that has an app to get it.


Let's not forget that TiVo_Ted has expressly stated that TiVo is working with Comcast to try to bring the app back. It could happen!


----------



## BNBTivo

chiguy50 said:


> I have the Roku Ultra and it is my first Roku device, so I am not best suited to answer your question about the relative merits of the various models. If you do not need 4K resolution (or HDR). and do not anticipate needing it in the near future, then you can make do with a lesser model, such as the Express.
> 
> You might want to review and compare all of the features, though, so as to make an informed decision. You can also find refurbs at a small discount on Amazon and eBay.
> 
> Roku Streaming Products


The main thing with the Ultra is that it has a much better remote which allows you to plug headphones in, plus the remote is thicker and just feels better in your hand. That and the ultra has ethernet.

If you don't care about the ethernet or headphones, I'd suggest the roku stick+ which has a nice remote as well. For the small price difference, better to get the better unit.


----------



## chiguy50

BNBTivo said:


> The main thing with the Ultra is that it has a much better remote which allows you to plug headphones in, plus the remote is thicker and just feels better in your hand. That and the ultra has ethernet.
> 
> If you don't care about the ethernet or headphones, I'd suggest the roku stick+ which has a nice remote as well. *For the small price difference, better to get the better unit.*


That was my feeling exactly. Plus, the Ultra--as opposed to the sticks--is a separate unit that can be situated well away from the TV, AVR, or other heat-generating devices (heat being the enemy of electronics). And, since the remote operates via IP control, it does not require line-of-sight.


----------



## chiguy50

Not to belabor the point, but let's not ignore how crippled the XoD app on TiVo has been even from the very beginning when its contents were still included in TiVo search functions. That point was driven home to me the first time I used the Xfinity Stream app (on my Android tablet). The app on the Roku is just light-years ahead of what it was on the TiVo. Really, the difference in speed, functionality and UI experience is night and day.

So it's not as if they are pulling the plug on a full-feature function for no apparent reason. As distressing as it might have been to learn that XoD on TiVo had reached its EOL, we have to keep matters in perspective.

One can therefore surmise that, if it is revived for TiVo, XoD will be much improved. Call it fortune in misfortune, if you will.


----------



## BNBTivo

chiguy50 said:


> That was my feeling exactly. Plus, the Ultra--as opposed to the sticks--is a separate unit that can be situated well away from the TV, AVR, or other heat-generating devices (heat being the enemy of electronics). And, since the remote operates via IP control, it does not require line-of-sight.


The stick + is great and has a nice rf remote as well. I wouldn't worry about the minimal heat on the device. The ultra is probably overkill unless you like the headphones or need ethernet. And you can upgrade to the ultra remote even with the stick later on.


----------



## BNBTivo

chiguy50 said:


> Not to belabor the point, but let's not ignore how crippled the XoD app on TiVo has been even from the very beginning when its contents were still included in TiVo search functions. That point was driven home to me the first time I used the Xfinity Stream app (on my Android tablet). The app on the Roku is just light-years ahead of what it was on the TiVo. Really, the difference in speed, functionality and UI experience is night and day.
> 
> So it's not as if they are pulling the plug on a full-feature function for no apparent reason. As distressing as it might have been to learn that XoD on TiVo had reached its EOL, we have to keep matters in perspective.
> 
> One can therefore surmise that, if it is revived for TiVo, XoD will be much improved. Call it fortune in misfortune, if you will.


The benefit of the app on the Tivo was that it would provide results for your shows all in one place. Maybe you didn't have the show recorded, oh, but look, it's on demand. The aggregator was the point. The tivo provided the experience of finding shows, so there was no need for a fancy on demand app.


----------



## laria

BNBTivo said:


> The benefit of the app on the Tivo was that it would provide results for your shows all in one place. Maybe you didn't have the show recorded, oh, but look, it's on demand. The aggregator was the point. The tivo provided the experience of finding shows, so there was no need for a fancy on demand app.


Yeah, I was pretty bummed when the XOD stuff stopped showing up in the aggregation and we had to actually use the XOD interface.


----------



## chiguy50

BNBTivo said:


> The benefit of the app on the Tivo was that it would provide results for your shows all in one place. Maybe you didn't have the show recorded, oh, but look, it's on demand. The aggregator was the point. The tivo provided the experience of finding shows, so there was no need for a fancy on demand app.





laria said:


> Yeah, I was pretty bummed when the XOD stuff stopped showing up in the aggregation and we had to actually use the XOD interface.


Precisely right.

The app, clunky and limited to begin with, had lost so much of its functionality that its removal is not so hard to swallow at this point. It was still better than nothing though IMO and I am sorry to see its removal with no immediate replacement, but if its demise leads to something that better fulfills the original purpose then that's something to cheer anyway. And life goes on . . .


----------



## chiguy50

BNBTivo said:


> The stick + is great and has a nice rf remote as well. I wouldn't worry about the minimal heat on the device. The ultra is probably overkill unless you like the headphones or need ethernet. And you can upgrade to the ultra remote even with the stick later on.


I agree that the Ultra is overkill if all you are concerned about is regaining access to Xfinity OD on your TV--even more so if you don't need 4K/HDR. But, as I previously wrote, I figured for just a few dollars more (at the discounted price of $59 including tax and shipping) I might as well get the top-of-the-line product with all the bells and whistles.


----------



## inaka

pdhenry said:


> Yeah, they touted it, but the implementation sucked


The implementation is another topic. I'm just commenting on the absurdity that is being spread here saying it wasn't a feature, it wasn't something I paid for, and being able to view on demand with my Tivo was an undocumented "gift" so I shouldn't be upset that it's been removed as an option. All of those statements are ridiculous.


----------



## BNBTivo

inaka said:


> The implementation is another topic. I'm just commenting on the absurdity that is being spread here saying it wasn't a feature, it wasn't something I paid for, and being able to view on demand with my Tivo was an undocumented "gift" so I shouldn't be upset that it's been removed as an option. All of those statements are ridiculous.


Agreed.


----------



## chiguy50

BNBTivo said:


> Agreed.


I quoted above from TiVo's data sheet on the Premiere. It contains the following explicit disclaimer:

"Certain advanced and interactive digital cable services *such as video-on-demand*, a cable operator's enhanced program guide and data-enhanced television services may require the use of a set-top box. For more information call your cable operator."

The manufacturer could not have been clearer about the availability of this particular feature. And they are perfectly justified in making this disclaimer since TiVo is dependent on a third party to provide and maintain the app. Eight years later, Comcast is giving what remains of the app a mercy killing.

No amount of stewing in a misplaced sense of righteous indignation (as some here seem intent on doing) is going to alter the basic fact that no promises were made and it is the consumer's responsibility to inform himself about his purchase if he wants to avoid misconceptions about functionality. That's just common sense.


----------



## inaka

Use the Wayback machine in 2011 on tivo.com and right there on the front page they have ad touting the features of the Tivo over an ordinary cable DVR:










But this was never touted as a feature...riiiiiiiiight.


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## kokishin

Did anyone from Tivo explain why they can't keep the current XOD app operating until they have the new and improved replacement app ready?

Guess that would be too logical.


----------



## kdmorse

kokishin said:


> Did anyone from Tivo explain why they can't keep the current XOD app operating until they have the new and improved replacement app ready?
> 
> Guess that would be too logical.


Comcast is pulling the plug on a something that Tivo currently uses to provide the service. There's nothing Tivo can do on their side but try to get the replacement up faster. (They could try to ask Comcast not to decommission the current something, but considering where we are now, we have to assume that request has failed)


----------



## chiguy50

inaka said:


> Use the Wayback machine in 2011 on tivo.com and right there on the front page they have ad touting the features of the Tivo over an ordinary cable DVR:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But this was never touted as a feature...riiiiiiiiight.


And you see Xfinity on Demand in that chart? Maybe you see what you want to see, but you are reading into the feature list what is clearly not there.

As I previously posted in all earnestness (as opposed to the unwarranted ad hominem attack you directed against me--a violation of TCF rules), you ought to consult a lawyer if you honestly believe in the righteousness of your cause. Or, at the very least, write to TiVo with your complaint and demand some form of compensation. But I have to believe that, on some level, you must realize that you are just venting out of frustration at your own failure to perform due diligence.

And, just for the record, I happen to be a retired Army linguist with various levels of proficiency in nine languages. I am certainly capable of making mistakes, but when it comes to English language comprehension I am typically on sure footing.


----------



## kokishin

kdmorse said:


> Comcast is pulling the plug on a something that Tivo currently uses to provide the service. There's nothing Tivo can do on their side but try to get the replacement up faster. (They could try to ask Comcast not to decommission the current something, but considering where we are now, we have to assume that request has failed)


Tivo could give Comcast an IP (intellectual property) bone  to keep the current XOD app operating until the alleged new app is ready. I.e., cut a deal.


----------



## inaka

chiguy50 said:


> And you see Xfinity on Demand in that chart? Maybe you see what you want to see, but you are reading into the feature list what is clearly not there.


Oh you mean like this from Tivo's page on the Wayback machine in 2012?










I have no idea why you keep perpetuating your lie that Tivo never advertised Xfinity On Demand as a feature. You're dead wrong, and your condescending/insulting tone in your posts just makes it more bizarre.

Tivo 100% advertised their premiere as working with Xfinity On Demand. Please stop saying they didn't, please stop being insulting and saying those who thought this are somehow incapable of reading/understanding things, and please be sure to put a napkin down on your lap when you eat this crow.


----------



## chiguy50

inaka said:


> Oh you mean like this from Tivo's page on the Wayback machine in 2012?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea why you keep perpetuating your lie that Tivo never advertised Xfinity On Demand as a feature. You're dead wrong, and your condescending/insulting tone in your posts just makes it more bizarre.
> 
> Tivo 100% advertised their premiere as working with Xfinity On Demand. Please stop saying they didn't, please stop being insulting and saying those who thought this are somehow incapable of reading/understanding things, and please be sure to put a napkin down on your lap when you eat this crow.


You are misquoting me. I never said one word about advertising claims, which, you may well be shocked to learn, very frequently contain incorrect or misleading information.

Once again, and for the very last time, you are basing your false assumptions not on reliable product specifications but just marketing fluff and other non-technical postings. You seem intent on confirming that you are incapable of recognizing the very salient difference between this type of communication and PRODUCT DOCUMENTATION. So be it, you can continue to follow your path for all I care.

But nothing you can dredge up negates the clear and concise TiVo disclaimer--that specifically pertains to XoD and similar cable-operator supplied apps--which I have quoted twice now and which you can find on the printed documentation that should have come with your Premiere. That disclaimer disproves every statement you have made and will continue to make regarding your misconception that you were promised a fully functional Xfinity on Demand app on your Premiere until the end of the world.


----------



## Mikeguy

chiguy50 said:


> . . . until the end of the world.


That's right--that's reserved for TiVo Lifetime.* 

* Yes, I know.


----------



## inaka

chiguy50 said:


> *Nonetheless, XoD was never a selling feature of any TiVo device but rather a pleasant addition (I can vaguely remember when it first appeared). *If you were never promised the feature in the first place you can hardly justify feeling shortchanged when it is no longer supported--particularly when the fault lies in a third party (Comcast).





chiguy50 said:


> You are misquoting me. I never said one word about advertising claims, which, you may well be shocked to learn, very frequently contain incorrect or misleading information.


Dead wrong again.


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## kokishin

Of all the forums I belong too, TCF is the best for brouhahas. :innocent:


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## chiguy50

inaka said:


> Dead wrong again.


I said nothing about advertising or marketing--which is not to the point anyway (the point being official product specifications). In fact, in that quote you referenced I mention remembering seeing it when it first came out.

Nice try, though.


----------



## inaka

chiguy50 said:


> Once again, and for the very last time, you are basing your false assumptions not on reliable product specifications but just marketing fluff and other non-technical postings. Y*ou seem intent on confirming that you are incapable of recognizing the very salient difference between this type of communication and PRODUCT DOCUMENTATION. *So be it, you can continue to follow your path for all I care.


And here's the 2012 Wayback Machine online product documentation on how to use *How to use XFINITY® On Demand on TiVo Premiere DVRs:










*
And here's the 2012 Wayback Machine online troubleshooting DOCUMENTATION:










Lemme guess, now it doesn't count because the "DOCUMENTATION" isn't printed and is instead online??  (Look up the definition of "documentation" then in one of the nine languages you're proficient in. LOL)

I mean, dude, give it up. Tivo advertised this as a feature, and the documented how to use it, how to troubleshoot it, complete with step-by-step explanations, etc.

You're dead wrong....again. It's so bizarre that you make something up completely out of thin air and then can't just say, "Oops, you're right, I was wrong, they did advertise it as a feature and it is a shame that it's no longer going to work, especially for those who used this feature." That's it.


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## JoeKustra

kokishin said:


> Of all the forums I belong too, TCF is the best for brouhahas. :innocent:


Can we start one on the lack of Amazon downloads? My Roamio still has a diagnostic for that.


----------



## chiguy50

inaka said:


> And here's the 2012 Wayback Machine online product documentation on how to use *How to use XFINITY® On Demand on TiVo Premiere DVRs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> And here's the 2012 Wayback Machine online troubleshooting DOCUMENTATION:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lemme guess, now it doesn't count because the "DOCUMENTATION" isn't printed and is instead online??  (Look up the definition of "documentation" then in one of the nine languages you're proficient in. LOL)
> 
> I mean, dude, give it up. Tivo advertised this as a feature, and the documented how to use it, how to troubleshoot it, complete with step-by-step explanations, etc.
> 
> You're dead wrong....again. It's so bizarre that you make something up completely out of thin air and then can't just say, "Oops, you're right, I was wrong, they did advertise it as a feature and it is a shame that it's no longer going to work, especially for those who used this feature." That's it.


I do believe that you are the only one here who is confused about the distinction between advertising or troubleshooting tips and product documentation.

Please do continue to revel in your state of confusion, but spare the rest of us your nonsensical disputation. You can then use the time that you will save to reread over and over both the TiVo disclaimer I have posted twice now which definitively settles the matter (and which you conveniently continue to ignore) and NashGuy's pragmatic admonishment to you (which you have also conveniently failed to address). corrected


----------



## inaka

chiguy50 said:


> I do believe that you are the only one here who is confused about the distinction between advertising or troubleshooting tips and product documentation.
> 
> Please do continue to revel in your state of confusion, but spare the rest of us your nonsensical disputation. You can then use the time that you will save to reread over and over both the TiVo disclaimer I have posted twice now which definitively settles the matter (and which you conveniently continue to ignore) and NashGuy's pragmatic admonishment to you (which you have also conveniently failed to address).


I'm not confused about anything, and I'm sorry you are incapable of admitting you are dead wrong with your multiple false statements you've repeatedly stated in this thread.


Lastly, feel free to edit your post above because your link doesn't even work, much like the section of your brain that admits fault. 

And yes, I already responded to his post, and he liked my reply. Another false statement you just made, but hey, par for the course.


----------



## chiguy50

inaka said:


> I'm not confused about anything, and I'm sorry you are incapable of admitting you are dead wrong with your multiple false statements you've repeatedly stated in this thread.


I have made no false statements. Citations?



inaka said:


> Lastly, feel free to edit your post above because your link doesn't even work, much like the section of your brain that admits fault.


It works for me. And that's another ad hominem.



inaka said:


> And yes, I already responded to his post, and he liked my reply. Another false statement you just made, but hey, par for the course.


OK, I missed that one. Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## kokishin




----------



## inaka




----------



## kokishin




----------



## dianebrat

chiguy50 said:


> I have made no false statements. Citations?
> 
> It works for me. And that's another ad hominem.
> 
> OK, I missed that one. Sorry for the confusion.


Sorry, but you've gone down the rabbit hole on this one and it's turned into a measure of proving your "rightness" and almost no one other than you has enjoyed the ongoing rant.


----------



## BNBTivo

chiguy50 said:


> I quoted above from TiVo's data sheet on the Premiere. It contains the following explicit disclaimer:
> 
> "Certain advanced and interactive digital cable services *such as video-on-demand*, a cable operator's enhanced program guide and data-enhanced television services may require the use of a set-top box. For more information call your cable operator."
> 
> The manufacturer could not have been clearer about the availability of this particular feature. And they are perfectly justified in making this disclaimer since TiVo is dependent on a third party to provide and maintain the app. Eight years later, Comcast is giving what remains of the app a mercy killing.
> 
> No amount of stewing in a misplaced sense of righteous indignation (as some here seem intent on doing) is going to alter the basic fact that no promises were made and it is the consumer's responsibility to inform himself about his purchase if he wants to avoid misconceptions about functionality. That's just common sense.


You aren't going to convince me either. Fine print saves them from legal trouble. But on demand has been a touted feature for many years by Tivo. Whoever is at fault, I don't really care. As I've said in other comments, I fired both Tivo and Comcast because of it.


----------



## BNBTivo

dianebrat said:


> Sorry, but you've gone down the rabbit hole on this one and it's turned into a measure of proving your "rightness" and almost no one other than you has enjoyed the ongoing rant.


Agreed.


----------



## chiguy50

BNBTivo said:


> You aren't going to convince me either. Fine print saves them from legal trouble. But on demand has been a touted feature for many years by Tivo. Whoever is at fault, I don't really care. As I've said in other comments, I fired both Tivo and Comcast because of it.


On demand, yes. But not specifically Xfinity on Demand, which is the point of contention.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Doesn't really matter what was touted, all apps on Tivo are simply bonuses to the core DVR functionality. I think most TCF members have known this ever since the ridiculous 'One Box' marketing claim was quickly proven to be a joke.

And more importantly, *****ing about it changes nothing - the answer is to get Rokus or just be unhappy. Tivo may or may not release a replacement one day, but for sure you're losing XOD on 6/25 if you don't get your own replacements.


----------



## BNBTivo

chiguy50 said:


> On demand, yes. But not specifically Xfinity on Demand, which is the point of contention.


Did you not actually look above at the graphics touting and advertising XFinity OnDemand as a core feature? Even asking to put your contact information on so you can be notified when it's available in your area... and presumably, buy a Tivo accordingly. It's a sales page all about getting Xfinity users to buy a Tivo and retain their OnDemand. Why are you trying so hard to argue against the obvious?


----------



## chiguy50

slowbiscuit said:


> Doesn't really matter what was touted, all apps on Tivo are simply bonuses to the core DVR functionality. I think most TCF members have known this ever since the ridiculous 'One Box' marketing claim was quickly proven to be a joke.
> 
> And more importantly, *****ing about it changes nothing - the answer is to get Rokus or just be unhappy. Tivo may or may not release a replacement one day, but for sure you're losing XOD on 6/25 if you don't get your own replacements.


That is the clear and concise answer to the whole matter. And it should put an end to all the back and forth.






Unfortunately . . . .



BNBTivo said:


> Did you not actually look above at the graphics touting and advertising XFinity OnDemand as a core feature? Even asking to put your contact information on so you can be notified when it's available in your area... and presumably, buy a Tivo accordingly. It's a sales page all about getting Xfinity users to buy a Tivo and retain their OnDemand. Why are you trying so hard to argue against the obvious?


That is not the point that I have been endeavoring to make. Of course, TiVo has advertised the XoD feature and issued instructions on how to troubleshoot it; who would expect otherwise? I myself was very happy to see its advent and have been relying on it ever since. But it is not listed as a specification on the documentation for any of their products; such an inclusion might indeed have justified a buyer's expectation that it is a "core feature" (your term of reference)--which it most certainly is not. As a further illustration of this fact, the features guide for the latest TiVo DVR, the Bolt, states explicitly "Availability of streaming content from third-party sources is subject to change, and certain third-party fees may apply."

But this whole quibble is essentially moot. TiVo could well have emblazoned the front panel of every DVR with the label "XFINITY ON DEMAND INSIDE!" for all that matters. They have little to no control over the continued operability of an app supplied by a third party (in this case, Comcast), and they clearly spell this out in the disclaimer on the product data sheet and other documentation. _Caveat emptor_ applies, as always.


----------



## inaka

Oh dear lord....


----------



## randyb359

I am mad I bought a TV in 2000 that could no longer receive signals in 2009 It's technology, it changes. If you can not accept that don't buy tech products.


----------



## schatham

I figure the Tivo is paid for with lifetime, same with my Mini's, why make any changes. I also have Roku's for every TV and a Roku TV. Now if the Tivo died I'd have to reconsider if I would buy another one.

Even though HBO Go does not work I keep the app active so a show will show up in a Tivo search, then I can switch over, same with Epix.

I guess I'm less bothered than some because I use the DVR 95% of the time.


----------



## CloudAtlas

BNBTivo said:


> Did you not actually look above at the graphics touting and advertising XFinity OnDemand as a core feature? Even asking to put your contact information on so you can be notified when it's available in your area... and presumably, buy a Tivo accordingly. It's a sales page all about getting Xfinity users to buy a Tivo and retain their OnDemand. Why are you trying so hard to argue against the obvious?


Not only that Comcast would help setup your TiVo to get XFinity OnDemand. Is this for real!? 

 _*Comcast can help set up your TiVo at no additional cost*_


----------



## JoeKustra

CloudAtlas said:


> Not only that Comcast would help setup your TiVo to get XFinity OnDemand. Is this for real!?
> 
> _*Comcast can help set up your TiVo at no additional cost*_


That must be very old. Also, TiVo's web help only mentions the Premiere too.

Or it's some marketing person who doesn't read English well.


----------



## CloudAtlas

JoeKustra said:


> That must be very old. Also, TiVo's web help only mentions the Premiere too.
> Or it's some marketing person who doesn't read English well.


Yes, It's the bottom half of the graphic @inaka posted for Xfinity on Demand that she found using the Wayback machine. The comment I'm replying to asks if they actually read the graphic. So I read it and was just surprised that Comcast was invested in XOD on TiVO to the point of actually setting up the customer's TiVO box! Spectrum meanwhile can barely handle pairing my TiVo's Cable Card.


----------



## MileHigh96

Okay....I read this entire thread (and boy, that was a process) and just wanted to add my 2 cents and get an opinion. I too am a Comcast customer and we have a TiVo Bolt at home and 2 TiVo Mini's right now. I have a Roku as well that we hardly use because up until now, the Bolt had basically everything on it that we needed (Hulu, Amazon Prime, Netflix, and Xfinity VOD). I honestly don't see a new app coming for On Demand content. TiVo keeps suing Comcast and Comcast keeps fighting it and with all the litigation, Comcast has ZERO motivation to replace the VOD app. Plus, with Comcast changing how they carry their video data (forgive me, I forgot the two formats, I believe the newer format is IPTV), what's the incentive to add to TiVo when they would much rather have you get one of their X1 boxes?

So basically my question for opinion(s) is, how long before TiVo becomes obsolete in terms of Comcast? Will we only get a really short notice warning for that like we all did about the VOD app being eliminated? Should I just bite the bullet and get an X1 box or will it be literally years before Comcast phases out the old format in favor of the IPTV format and makes the TiVo box obsolete? I don't really want to switch and the wife DEFINITELY doesn't want to lose the TiVo, but I'd rather be proactive than reactive and if TiVo is going to be obsolete tech by the end of the year, I' think I should just get an X1 box because this appears to be "the writing on the wall" so to speak. Because if Comcast _really_ wanted to support VOD on TiVo, they would have had a replacement app up and ready to go before declaring the EOL of the old and crappy app.


----------



## JoeKustra

MileHigh96 said:


> So basically my question for opinion(s) is, how long before TiVo becomes obsolete in terms of Comcast?


You may find more focused threads here: Comcast XFINITY TV forum | DSLReports, ISP Information The forum is different, but there are some good speculations there too.


----------



## TonyD79

CloudAtlas said:


> Yes, It's the bottom half of the graphic @inaka posted for Xfinity on Demand that she found using the Wayback machine. The comment I'm replying to asks if they actually read the graphic. So I read it and was just surprised that Comcast was invested in XOD on TiVO to the point of actually setting up the customer's TiVO box! Spectrum meanwhile can barely handle pairing my TiVo's Cable Card.


There was that period when Comcast and TiVo were deploying units together in the Boston market. Is it from then?


----------



## Kath Cox

Comcast Xfinity is slowly trying to get rid of all their boxes and eventually everything will be watched via streaming. You must have their router though. Back to that equipment thing again. I would not waste your effort in changing to a xfinity box. Find work arounds for now like a roku stick etc for other content. My 0.02 worth. I just finished a chat with a tivo specialist.


----------



## samccfl99

kokishin said:


> Tivo could give Comcast an IP (intellectual property) bone  to keep the current XOD app operating until the alleged new app is ready. I.e., cut a deal.


Comcast could care less...



chiguy50 said:


> Let's not forget that TiVo_Ted has expressly stated that TiVo is working with Comcast to try to bring the app back. It could happen!


Now you been on here for a long time (I think you are on TE3, but maybe I am wrong), so you really think so? I posted something a while ago that said that they could not get the PG UP/DN to Skip x # seconds like the old Comcast Interface did on their non-X1 boxes. L3 could not even get that done. I never knew if they were or were not sending the codes or was the Comcast interface dropping them...or....

But I really came back to tell the group that before, I posted that Comcast told me a few weeks ago, that I could get a free non-dvr box. I called back the other day to make sure I was not going to waste a trip to the store. The Answer Was NO!!! (after asking a supervisor in the background, I think. She also said they still have little non-X1 boxes. WTF do they do with those? I don't know why they can't Give those away! LOL. So she said she would Escalate it...


----------



## samccfl99

Kath Cox said:


> I just finished a chat with a tivo specialist.


What's a "tivo specialist"???


----------



## schatham

MileHigh96 said:


> Okay....I read this entire thread (and boy, that was a process) and just wanted to add my 2 cents and get an opinion. I too am a Comcast customer and we have a TiVo Bolt at home and 2 TiVo Mini's right now. I have a Roku as well that we hardly use because up until now, the Bolt had basically everything on it that we needed (Hulu, Amazon Prime, Netflix, and Xfinity VOD). I honestly don't see a new app coming for On Demand content. TiVo keeps suing Comcast and Comcast keeps fighting it and with all the litigation, Comcast has ZERO motivation to replace the VOD app. Plus, with Comcast changing how they carry their video data (forgive me, I forgot the two formats, I believe the newer format is IPTV), what's the incentive to add to TiVo when they would much rather have you get one of their X1 boxes?
> 
> So basically my question for opinion(s) is, how long before TiVo becomes obsolete in terms of Comcast? Will we only get a really short notice warning for that like we all did about the VOD app being eliminated? Should I just bite the bullet and get an X1 box or will it be literally years before Comcast phases out the old format in favor of the IPTV format and makes the TiVo box obsolete? I don't really want to switch and the wife DEFINITELY doesn't want to lose the TiVo, but I'd rather be proactive than reactive and if TiVo is going to be obsolete tech by the end of the year, I' think I should just get an X1 box because this appears to be "the writing on the wall" so to speak. Because if Comcast _really_ wanted to support VOD on TiVo, they would have had a replacement app up and ready to go before declaring the EOL of the old and crappy app.


Depends if the bolt has lifetime. I say use it until it stops, then get something else. If you have lifetime your adding around $30 more a month for the X1 and 2 satellite boxes.

If your paying Tivo monthly I say switch if you use on demand a lot. Or keep the Tivo for the extra rooms and get an X1 for the main TV.


----------



## Phil T

samccfl99 said:


> What's a "tivo specialist"???


Last week I was having signal issues with Comcast causing a lot of pixelization. I called technical support and selected the cable card option. I got a technical support person in Tucson who was very knowledgeable about TiVo and said he had several himself. FWIW he said "as long as the sell Tivos with cable cards, we will support them". He dispatched a technician for a service call.

My issue was a bad splitter at the pedestal which he replaced. He also installed a CommScope signal booster/4 way splitter in the junction box on the back of my house. I was very hesitant because I have 2 minis on a MOCA network. The technician said it would not be a issue with my minis, and it wasn't. Everything working fine now.


----------



## Phil T

BTW, I bought a $34.00 ROKU Premiere at Best Buy for the little Xfinity on Demand we watch. Maybe 2 shows in the last two years.


----------



## laria

CloudAtlas said:


> Yes, It's the bottom half of the graphic @inaka posted for Xfinity on Demand that she found using the Wayback machine. The comment I'm replying to asks if they actually read the graphic. So I read it and was just surprised that Comcast was invested in XOD on TiVO to the point of actually setting up the customer's TiVO box! Spectrum meanwhile can barely handle pairing my TiVo's Cable Card.


There was a period of time where Comcast would come set up your TiVo box, yes.

When I first got my S3's, they came with a big printed sheet that you were supposed to give to the cable installer for setup.

I actually got a pair of really competent guys who knew how to set them up though, although we did have to go through a ridiculous amount of time pairing the cards... not the installers' fault. We were installing 2 S3's, so 4 cablecards, and it seemed like every other one was bad, and the pairing process for the cards just took a super long time and the guys on the other end kept keying numbers incorrectly.


----------



## leiff

inaka said:


> Tivos being capable of on-demand were not only a selling feature of the product, it was the reason I jumped from DirecTV to Comcast way back when.
> DTV had terrible "on-demand" service at the time. (I put that in quotes because it was barely what we consider "on demand" today). So I wanted to switch to cable (Comcast) but wanted to keep using a Tivo, and didn't want to have no on-demand at all. Once Tivo announced you could use their boxes with Comcast, and view on-demand content, I was sold. I even remember when they were testing it out in certain markets, and it wasn't available everywhere, but my market got it fairly early (if not the first in the entire country). It was great and I switched to Tivo/Comcast.
> 
> Of course On-Demand was used as a selling point with Tivo/Comcast (from 2011):
> TiVo and Comcast Team Up to Offer Xfinity On Demand Library to TiVo® Premiere Users - TiVo Blog
> 
> What you said isn't true at all.


Agreed. The announcement of on demand was what caused me to sell my aging Series 3 TiVo and upgrade to a series 4.


----------



## samccfl99

Phil T said:


> BTW, I bought a $34.00 ROKU Premiere at Best Buy for the little Xfinity on Demand we watch. Maybe 2 shows in the last two years.


Back to $40 now, like on Amazon. I found a "mfg refurb" one on Ebay for $30 and got it because I am a cheapskate. Oh my, it's coming from CA and won't be here in time for the cutoff...LOLOLOLOLOL. Probably the video processor is better than my RP or XL4...LOL. Not going to pay for any services on it. Thanks for the tip.

Oh, by the way, when I saw "tivo specialist" I thought the poster meant a Tivo, Inc "specialist", not a Comcast one...


----------



## leiff

laria said:


> TiVo should get into the universal remote business, because one of the things keeping me from getting another box is that I just don't like using any of the Harmonys that we have had (880, One) or currently (650) have. I can't get a stick... my receiver has no where to plug in a stick.


At least the slide remote is a learning remote plus it can be programmed to power off your receiver and TV at the same time with a single press of the power button. Plus you can map the input button to do any type of function for any type of device using learning. Great remote, would have been even better with a little extra added functionality. Plus the ability to power on off multiple devices is hidden. Any modern TiVo remote is capable of doing this though I recently figured out.


----------



## SullyND

TonyD79 said:


> There was that period when Comcast and TiVo were deploying units together in the Boston market. Is it from then?


No, that was a Motorola box running TiVo software.


----------



## laria

leiff said:


> At least the slide remote is a learning remote plus it can be programmed to power off your receiver and TV at the same time with a single press of the power button. Plus you can map the input button to do any type of function for any type of device using learning. Great remote, would have been even better with a little extra added functionality. Plus the ability to power on off multiple devices is hidden. Any modern TiVo remote is capable of doing this though I recently figured out.


I don't have the slide remote, but yeah, the basic Roamio remote can do this... the buttons are in the perfect locations and the peanut has such a great feel in the hand. I was so happy when we decided there was no point to keep using the universal remotes because we spend 99.9% of the time on the TiVo input and the peanut can handle the receiver power/volume along with the tv.


----------



## jfalkingham

SullyND said:


> No, that was a Motorola box running TiVo software.


That was before Comcast would deploy TiVo premiere units already paired with cable card and XOD installed. Two separate deployments

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


----------



## rfryar

samccfl99 said:


> Comcast could care less...


The correct quote is Comcast could NOT care less. Your statement says that they care somewhat as they could care less about it.


----------



## slowbiscuit

MileHigh96 said:


> Should I just bite the bullet and get an X1 box or will it be literally years before Comcast phases out the old format in favor of the IPTV format and makes the TiVo box obsolete?


@TiVo_Ted said that Comcast has no plans to get rid of Cablecard, so take that for what you will. I will keep using my Roamio + Minis until enough channels move off of QAM and on to IPTV to force a switch, assuming that cards continue to be supported.

So years, in other words.


----------



## Kath Cox

samccfl99 said:


> What's a "tivo specialist"???


----------



## Kath Cox

Support from the Tivo web site.. for what it is worth .... still no answer in when they will suport Hbo go with comcast either. Its just wrong!


----------



## nrnoble

Based on the conversation in this thread, no info on a replaced App happening anytime in the for seeable future. I'll see how it goes. I am sticking my Tivos with lifetime sub for as long as they last.

I have had multiple Tivos since 1999, and I was about to switch to something other than Tivo when comcast switched to MP4, thus making my two S3 Tivo useless with cable. But I bought a Bolt with a Tivo Mini, and I am impressed with the combo.

IMO, Tivo could have leader in streaming App business, they were not foreward looking enough like Netflix. Netflix saw the DVD market being replaced by streaming and made their move into streaming. Tivo should have seen sooner that VOD services would replace the DVR just like the DVR replaced VHS recordings. 70% of my viewing is now VOD, even VOD of shows that are on one of the major networks; with a Hulu sub there are no commercials last night prime time shows.


----------



## schatham

My On Demand is already down. I checked last night. You can scroll but when trying to play it's just a blank. So much for the 25th. I wonder if Tivo will just remove the app from the list.


----------



## chiguy50

schatham said:


> My On Demand is already down. I checked last night. You can scroll but when trying to play it's just a blank. So much for the 25th. I wonder if Tivo will just remove the app from the list.


I just checked and it is still working here.

But, really, once you experience Xfinity Stream via a Roku device you will forget all about clunky old XoD on the TiVo. It's such a vast improvement that there is just no comparison and is well worth the small investment (as little as $25) and extra effort in switching inputs for access.

I shelled out $60 for the Roku Ultra just for this purpose even though I still use my Nvidia Shield for all the rest of my streaming sources. YMMV, but I am actually happy, in a perverse kind of way, that Comcast forced me to make the switch by ending support for XoD.


----------



## WGB

BNBTivo said:


> You aren't going to convince me either. Fine print saves them from legal trouble. But on demand has been a touted feature for many years by Tivo. Whoever is at fault, I don't really care. As I've said in other comments, I fired both Tivo and Comcast because of it.


What was your solution?


----------



## inaka

chiguy50 said:


> I just checked and it is still working here.
> 
> But, really, once you experience Xfinity Stream via a Roku device you will forget all about clunky old XoD on the TiVo. It's such a vast improvement that there is just no comparison and is well worth the small investment (as little as $25) and extra effort in switching inputs for access.
> 
> I shelled out $60 for the Roku Ultra just for this purpose even though I still use my Nvidia Shield for all the rest of my streaming sources. YMMV, but I am actually happy, in a perverse kind of way, that Comcast forced me to make the switch by ending support for XoD.


Just a matter of time before Comcast starts charging an extra fee for you to stream via the Roku.

It's currently free and listed as a "beta", so it's pretty obvious Comcast will charge an additional outlet fee or some sort of new home digital streaming free down the road.

This seems like a short-lived workaround, so yeah YMMV.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

What is the video quality of the XoD app on Roku?


----------



## kokishin

Does Comcast require one to use Comcast internet service with the Roku XOD streaming app?


----------



## chiguy50

PSU_Sudzi said:


> What is the video quality of the XoD app on Roku?


The Xfinity Stream app ("XoD" is the TiVo app) seems to provide roughly the same PQ as HBO GO. That's my unscientific analysis  going back and forth between the same scenes on the two apps. I want to believe that the HBO GO video is just a bit clearer, but that could be expectation bias at work. And I would assume that same relative quality applies regardless of the device you are using to access the two apps, whether Roku, tablet, PC, Mac, or other.

IOW, my impression is that it's about what you would expect from an HD stream. You didn't ask about the AQ, but given that it uses a lossy DD+ container, there is the potential for conveying an immersive audio codec such as Dolby Atmos.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

chiguy50 said:


> The Xfinity Stream app ("XoD" is the TiVo app) seems to provide roughly the same PQ as HBO GO. That's my unscientific analysis  going back and forth between the same scenes on the two apps. I want to believe that the HBO GO video is just a bit clearer, but that could be expectation bias at work. And I would assume that same relative quality applies regardless of the device you are using to access the two apps, whether Roku, tablet, PC, Mac, or other.
> 
> IOW, my impression is that it's about what you would expect from an HD stream. You didn't ask about the AQ, but given that it uses a lossy DD+ container, there is the potential for conveying an immersive audio codec such as Dolby Atmos.


Thanks! I thought I saw some posts here that the app was in SD which would be atrocious.


----------



## chiguy50

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Thanks! I thought I saw some posts here that the app was in SD which would be atrocious.


Maybe you were thinking of the XoD UI resolution. No, the Xfinity Stream is in HD, and the UX on any Roku is really very nicely constructed. I like it better than any other video device I have tried other than my Nvidia Shield TV, which is in a different category for sophistication and price.


----------



## NorthAlabama

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Thanks! I thought I saw some posts here that the app was in SD which would be atrocious.


no worries, the app has great picture quality, even when streaming live tv, i've used it regularly for years when on the go and have no complaints.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

NorthAlabama said:


> no worries, the app has great picture quality, even when streaming live tv, i've used it regularly for years when on the go and have no complaints.


Good deal, I may pick up a couple of Roku sticks then.


----------



## KevTech

XVOD was disabled today but the way this was done by Tivo really sucks.
I had home shortcut 5 set to Netflix and today when I went Tivo + 5 it went to a screen telling me XVOD is no longer available.
I then went into setting to check and now 0-5 are set to fixed and 5 is set to Xfinity On Demand.
So now we have lost another number we can set to a home shortcut.
I hope this is just temporary as why would you need a fixed shortcut to something you can not use.


----------



## morac

I just tried XVOD on my TE3 Roamio and it’s still working at the moment.


----------



## leiff

Still working for me with T4 experience. Checking out Streampix now, looks like there might be some good movies here I never bothered to check out


----------



## leiff

What was nice about xod, is that watching shows with it didn't count against Comcast 1 Tb data limit.
Unrelated story, a ways back I went way over 1 tb limit but found out I could pay $50 for unlimited instead of paying $200 for overages. then later after I removed Unlimited, they forgot to take it off my bill. I've noticed even though I don't pay for the $50 unlimited anymore, it still says Unlimited on my bill and I haven't been charged the last 2 months I've gone over my 1 Tb limit. I'm just scared they're going to say oh we forgot to charge you overages for the last 3 months and charge me. That's not possible I hope


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

The XoD app is now gone for good from my Roamio on TE3, it's missing from the list of available apps. *Requiescat in pace.*


----------



## chiguy50

leiff said:


> What was nice about xod, is that watching shows with it didn't count against Comcast 1 Tb data limit.


That data cap exemption also applies to the Xfinity Stream app, which you can currently access on your computer, tablet, smart phone, or Roku device. The only thing you lose for now (TiVo claims that they are working with Comcast on an XoD replacement) is the TiVo integration. OTOH, Xfinity Stream is much, much more user-friendly than XoD ever was.


----------



## wmcbrine

leiff said:


> What was nice about xod, is that watching shows with it didn't count against Comcast 1 Tb data limit.


They couldn't count it against the data limit if they wanted to, because the video went over QAM -- only the control data went over intranet. That was the semi-cool thing about it, technically. But it was also a big limitation -- I was always running up against the situation where all the available channels were already in use. And I hardly even used it! A Katy Perry video when I first got it, Spiderman: Homecoming, and season 1 of Counterpart -- I think that's the sum total of my XoD usage.

Nowadays, I have a streaming subscription to Starz (direct, because Comcast are dicks and won't authorize the app), and it's much better PQ than the linear channels on Xfinity, so I use that for all my Starz viewing. Except... I quit watching Counterpart midway through season 2, thinking, "Eh, I'll catch up later." Then, they cancelled it -- no biggie, they have lots of cancelled shows still in the app. Only, when I went to look for it, it wasn't there anymore. Sometimes that happens when it goes to another service, I figured. Was it on Netflix? No. Hulu? No. Amazon Prime? Well, only if you bought it separately. Hrmpf. But wait... Xfinity streaming app on Roku? Yep, there it is. So, I finally found a use for that app.


----------



## KevTech

PSU_Sudzi said:


> The XoD app is now gone for good from my Roamio on TE3, it's missing from the list of available apps.


I wish it was gone from TE4 as I never use it. I spoke to Tivo support and they said Comcast changed the home shortcut not them which makes no sense to me. I hope I am not going to have to downgrade to TE3 to get rid of the on demand app then upgrade back to TE4. I just want my home shortcut back as I could care less about Comcast on demand.


----------



## kokishin

kokishin said:


> Does Comcast require one to use Comcast internet service with the Roku XOD streaming app?


I researched this so I'll answer my own question.

Since I don't have an Xfinity STB nor Xfinity internet service, it appears I'm SOL. Tangentially, I am able to use the XOD streaming app on my Samsung Galaxy S7. However, when I tried to use the Smart View feature on my S7 to screen mirror to my 4K Fire TV Stick, the XOD streaming app would not allow it.

From: Roku
_To use the Xfinity Stream Beta channel, you will need a Comcast Xfinity account, an active Xfinity TV, Xfinity Instant TV or Xfinity on Campus subscription, *one* *primary Xfinity set-top box*, and *Xfinity Internet service*. You will also need a web browser or mobile web browser to login, as well as your Comcast Xfinity username and password. _


----------



## NashGuy

wmcbrine said:


> I quit watching Counterpart midway through season 2, thinking, "Eh, I'll catch up later." Then, they cancelled it -- no biggie, they have lots of cancelled shows still in the app. Only, when I went to look for it, it wasn't there anymore. Sometimes that happens when it goes to another service, I figured. Was it on Netflix? No. Hulu? No. Amazon Prime? Well, only if you bought it separately. Hrmpf. But wait... Xfinity streaming app on Roku? Yep, there it is. So, I finally found a use for that app.


So weird that Starz has dumped one of their original series from their service so quickly after airing it. I've never seen a premium do that before (although I did recently notice that some of Showtime's iconic older series like Weeds and Nurse Jackie are no longer available to stream from them). I did a search for Counterpart on Starz.com and it doesn't come up at all. I suppose whoever actually owns Counterpart has struck a deal to license it for streaming somewhere else soon. (Surely they'll want to squeeze as much cash out of it as possible, preferably while it still has a bit of buzz.) If you haven't finished season 2 via the Xfinity Stream app yet, you probably should because I'll bet it disappears from there very soon too (although maybe not if the show's content licensing contracts differ for MVPD VOD platforms vs. OTT).


----------



## DeltaOne

KevTech said:


> I then went into setting to check and now 0-5 are set to fixed and 5 is set to Xfinity On Demand. So now we have lost another number we can set to a home shortcut.


Same here.

I kinda remembered adding the shortcut for OnDemand. But, today, it sure wouldn't let me remove and reused the shortcut.


----------



## KevTech

DeltaOne said:


> Same here.
> 
> I kinda remembered adding the shortcut for OnDemand. But, today, it sure wouldn't let me remove and reused the shortcut.


Used to be only 0 thru 4 were fixed.


----------



## krkaufman

KevTech said:


> Used to be only 0 thru 4 were fixed.
> 
> View attachment 41729


Which is still the case on my TE4 BOLT configured for OTA (rather than cable).


----------



## morac

The XOD app is still on my Roamio (TE3), but running it brings up this splash screen.


----------



## HerronScott

morac said:


> The XOD app is still on my Roamio (TE3), but running it brings up this splash screen.


I was just about to post the same picture! 

I get this with a Roamio Pro running TE3.

Scott


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Yeah, that's what I get when I go to To Do (home screen button 5).

I can't believe they stole a home screen button from us to link to a service that they no longer provide...


----------



## kdmorse

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I can't believe they stole a home screen button from us to link to a service that they no longer provide...


And blamed Comcast. That's a hat trick right there.


----------



## squiredogs

I assume that if I were to buy a rook and stream Xfinity VOD, I will sometime very soon get an "additional outlet" charge of some kind. I don't think I'll bother putting out any money for a roku anything.


----------



## chiguy50

squiredogs said:


> *I assume that if I were to buy a rook and stream Xfinity VOD, I will sometime very soon get an "additional outlet" charge of some kind.* I don't think I'll bother putting out any money for a roku anything.


I will go out on a very sturdy limb here and state emphatically that that will never happen.

Just ask the rook:


----------



## KevTech

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, that's what I get when I go to To Do (home screen button 5).
> 
> I can't believe they stole a home screen button from us to link to a service that they no longer provide...


This morning I still had on demand set to fixed number 5. 
Forced a connection to the Tivo servers and after it completed I had number 5 back as a shortcut I could set.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

KevTech said:


> This morning I still had on demand set to fixed number 5.
> Forced a connection to the Tivo servers and after it completed I had number 5 back as a shortcut I could set.


Interesting...I'll check when I get home.


----------



## DeltaOne

KevTech said:


> This morning I still had on demand set to fixed number 5.
> Forced a connection to the Tivo servers and after it completed I had number 5 back as a shortcut I could set.


I just checked...my 5 is back as a shortcut I can set. My last connection was an automatic one, at 6:03 am this morning.


----------



## NashGuy

morac said:


> The XOD app is still on my Roamio (TE3), but running it brings up this splash screen.


Interesting that TiVo's splash screen recommends using the Xfinity Stream app/website on phones and computers but not on TV-connected devices like Roku. I'm sure TiVo would rather you never buy or use such a device because they know that it leads some customers to eventually no longer using a TiVo at all.


----------



## krkaufman

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I can't believe they stole a home screen button from us to link to a service that they no longer provide...


Is a thing "stolen" if it happened by accident or through incompetence?

It was just another bungle that needs to be corrected. I don't see the sense in assuming and attributing ill intent.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

DeltaOne said:


> I just checked...my 5 is back as a shortcut I can set. My last connection was an automatic one, at 6:03 am this morning.


Yep, my 5 has returned as well.

They returned my stolen property!


----------



## miwi98

TiVo_Ted said:


> Starting a new thread on TiVo support for Comcast Xfinity customers.
> 
> First, nationwide support for Comcast linear TV services is not changing. Comcast and TiVo still support our mutual customers accessing the full Xfinity live TV service on TiVo DVR's with the use of a CableCARD decoder provided by Comcast.
> 
> What is changing is that Comcast and TiVo are announcing the end of support for the current Xfinity VOD application. The reason behind this is that the servers which are supporting this VOD application are running on an older operating system which has passed end-of-support.
> 
> Those of you that have used the Xfinity VOD application on TiVo have probably noticed that it is quite dated by now. This is because the VOD application was written on top of TiVo's old HME architecture which we no longer use now that HTML5 has taken off.
> 
> TiVo and Comcast are actively working together on a plan to bring a more modern Xfinity application to TiVo customers. I can't give you any more details on that now, but stay tuned. In the meantime, there are several other applications on TiVo that may fill the gap in the interim.



Comcast told me today that it was a mutual agreement to end VOD. Is it true?


----------



## KevTech

miwi98 said:


> Comcast told me today that it was a mutual agreement to end VOD. Is it true?


ComcastTeds said the same thing.


----------



## krkaufman

miwi98 said:


> Comcast told me today that it was a mutual agreement to end VOD. Is it true?


Was that supposed to link to somewhere other than this thread?


----------



## krkaufman

KevTech said:


> ComcastTeds said the same thing.


Nothing I read there is new relative to what @TiVo_Ted posted to start the thread.

What remains unknown is if/when a replacement for the TiVo platform may be forthcoming.


----------



## morac

chiguy50 said:


> I will go out on a very sturdy limb here and state emphatically that that will never happen.


I was speaking to level 3 support the other day (ones who fix the On Demand videos) and I was told there will be a $5 a box charge, he just couldn't say when as he didn't know when the app would be out of beta. I can almost guarantee that Comcast will charge for the Roku app at some point simply because they can. This is Comcast we are talking about. They charged extra for HD.

Then again he also had no knowledge of a replacement Tivo XOD app being in the works, though something like that is probably above his pay grade.


----------



## chiguy50

morac said:


> I was speaking to level 3 support the other day (ones who fix the On Demand videos) and I was told there will be a $5 a box charge, he just couldn't say when as he didn't know when the app would be out of beta. I can almost guarantee that Comcast will charge for the Roku app at some point simply because they can. This is Comcast we are talking about. They charged extra for HD.
> 
> Then again he also had no knowledge of a replacement Tivo XOD app being in the works, though something like that is probably above his pay grade.


I was responding to the OP's concern that the Roku app would incur an "additional outlet" charge. That will never happen IMHO.

Now, once the Xfinity Stream app matures from its current beta status, it is to be expected that users MAY incur a STB fee, which is currently a uniform $5.00 p.m., as you mentioned above. HOWEVER, I expect that that fee will apply only if Comcast is not your internet provider.

In short, if you have Comcast TV and HSI service, you should feel confident that there are no current plans to charge a fee to use the Xfinity Stream app on any device, whether computer, laptop, tablet, smart phone, Roku, or other. Furthermore, I can not imagine a scenario where they try to charge a fee for the app on a Roku but not on any of the other devices; I should think that they would have to charge the user for access to the app altogether, which would presumably be the case for customers who do not subscribe to Comcast's HSI service.


----------



## krkaufman

chiguy50 said:


> I was responding to the OP's concern that the Roku app would incur an "additional outlet" charge. That will never happen IMHO.
> 
> Now, once the Xfinity Stream app matures from its current beta status, it is to be expected that users MAY incur a STB fee, which is currently a uniform $5.00 p.m., as you mentioned above. HOWEVER, I expect that that fee will apply only if Comcast is not your internet provider.


You're adorable!


----------



## chiguy50

krkaufman said:


> You're adorable!


If you mean to imply that you disagree with my prognosis, perhaps you could be so kind as to remove your tongue from your cheek long enough to elaborate.


----------



## schatham

KevTech said:


> ComcastTeds said the same thing.


Tivo needs to put pressure on HBO to allow the Go app.


----------



## krkaufman

chiguy50 said:


> If you mean to imply that you disagree with my prognosis, perhaps you could be so kind as to remove your tongue from your cheek long enough to elaborate.


Is it really necessary? I don't think I really need to cite any evidence beyond the company name, "Comcast," to make the argument that potential revenues won't be left on the table.


----------



## chiguy50

krkaufman said:


> Is it really necessary? I don't think I really need to cite any evidence beyond the company name, "Comcast," to make the argument that potential revenues won't be left on the table.


That's no answer, just gratuitous cynicism.

Of course Comcast is in business to make a profit, and we can expect to pay for their services. But I outlined how I believe they plan to roll out the Xfinity Stream app. And it makes perfect sense from a business perspective, incentivizing users of their TV service to sign up for HSI service as well. As we all know, the latter is where the corporate emphasis has been placed for future product development.

I engage in periodic negotiations with Comcast community sales reps and find them to be fair and flexible. They are focused on their bottom line but are also attuned to customer concerns.

At any rate, I see no evidence that the Xfinity Stream app on a Roku device will ever engender anything like the "Additional Digital Outlet" charge, as opposed to the now-standard $5.00 p.m. fee for a "TV Box."


----------



## kokishin

chiguy50 said:


> I was responding to the OP's concern that the Roku app would incur an "additional outlet" charge. That will never happen IMHO.
> 
> Now, once the Xfinity Stream app matures from its current beta status, it is to be expected that users MAY incur a STB fee, which is currently a uniform $5.00 p.m., as you mentioned above. HOWEVER, I expect that that fee will apply only if Comcast is not your internet provider.
> 
> In short, if you have Comcast TV and HSI service, you should feel confident that there are no current plans to charge a fee to use the Xfinity Stream app on any device, whether computer, laptop, tablet, smart phone, Roku, or other. Furthermore, I can not imagine a scenario where they try to charge a fee for the app on a Roku but not on any of the other devices; I should think that they would have to charge the user for access to the app altogether, which would presumably be the case for customers who do not subscribe to Comcast's HSI service.


----------



## krkaufman

chiguy50 said:


> At any rate, I see no evidence that the Xfinity Stream app on a Roku device will ever engender anything like the "Additional Digital Outlet" charge, as opposed to the now-standard $5.00 p.m. fee for a "TV Box."


Right, neither of which are $0. I don't know what Comcast may charge, but it's not simply reflexive "cynicism" to expect that it won't be $0 once the so-called "beta" phase concludes.


----------



## chiguy50

krkaufman said:


> Right, neither of which are $0. I don't know what Comcast may charge, but it's not simply reflexive "cynicism" to expect that it won't be $0 once the so-called "beta" phase concludes.


We shall see, but I stand by my prediction that there will in fact be no charge for Xfinity Stream users with both TV and HSI service from Comcast, just has always been the case for quite some time now on all other supported devices. Remember, too, that the "beta" phase of the app is due to its lacking the full features as experienced on a mobile device or through the web portal, not because it is a brand new service just in development.

Once the app becomes available for users without a subscription to Comcast HSI, then a "TV Box" fee would potentially make sense for those users (depending on the nature of their subscription plan). But again, this is not the same as the $9.95 outlet fee that has been assessed for additional digital devices; I do not expect that fee to apply to TiVo users with a Roku device.


----------



## krkaufman

'k


----------



## fyodor

chiguy50 said:


> In short, if you have Comcast TV and HSI service, you should feel confident that there are no current plans to charge a fee to use the Xfinity Stream app on any device, whether computer, laptop, tablet, smart phone, Roku, or other. Furthermore, I can not imagine a scenario where they try to charge a fee for the app on a Roku but not on any of the other devices;.


Really? It seems like Comcast has long treated Rokus differently because the act as a set top box substitute. It's why they were so late in coming. It's why there are are ipad and android mobile apps but no Android TV or Apple TV apps. Maybe they won't, but it seems bizarre to assume that they won't treat STB apps differently, when it's generally been their policy to do.


----------



## chiguy50

fyodor said:


> Really? It seems like Comcast has long treated Rokus differently because the act as a set top box substitute. It's why they were so late in coming. It's why there are are ipad and android mobile apps but no Android TV or Apple TV apps. Maybe they won't, but it seems bizarre to assume that they won't treat STB apps differently, when it's generally been their policy to do.


Could be, but TiVo's XoD was also a STB app. And there was no attempt to charge for use of XoD on a Mini.

Again, it would not surprise me if the Roku were treated as a STB subject to the $5.00 "TV Fee" under certain scenarios, but not subject to the $9.95 ADO.

Anyway this is all just speculation. Time will tell.


----------



## NashGuy

chiguy50 said:


> Now, once the Xfinity Stream app matures from its current beta status, it is to be expected that users MAY incur a STB fee, which is currently a uniform $5.00 p.m., as you mentioned above. HOWEVER, I expect that that fee will apply only if Comcast is not your internet provider.


You really can't even fully use the Xfinity Stream app if Comcast isn't your internet provider. I mean, yes, it's possible that you could subscribe to Comcast only for TV but not internet, in which case I'm pretty sure they would require you to take a traditional STB. And, as a TV subscriber, you should still have access to the Stream app, at least on mobile devices. I'm not sure if the Stream app on Roku will even work if it isn't connected to an active modem registered to the same Comcast account as the TV subscription.

The mobile app, when connected through a non-Comcast internet connection (such as a cellular network like Verizon or T-Mobile), does not have full functionality. Some live channels aren't available and you may not be able to set up cloud DVR recordings at home either. If the Roku app would even be useable on a non-Comcast internet connection, I would expect it to behave the same way.

Now, all that said, as to whether or not Comcast will eventually treat their Stream app on TV-connected devices (e.g. Roku, smart TVs, Apple TV, Fire TV, etc.) differently than their mobile app and begin charging to use it (since it would be serving as a customer-owned STB), who knows. Might come down to what their arch-competitor AT&T does with their forthcoming new streaming cable TV service that they recently announced will launch in 3Q (July-Sept.). It will be based on the same tech platform that powers DirecTV Now and, if they employ the same usage policy, the channel packages will be priced to automatically include two simultaneous streams on any device, in or out of home, whether that's a customer-owned retail device or AT&T's own Android TV-powered STB. But it's not clear whether that box will be rented, sold, or given away for free to new subscribers.


----------



## chiguy50

That's a thorough explanation. Thank you for that!

The reason that I mention using Xfinity Stream w/o a Comcast HSI sub is the following verbiage on the Comcast support site:

_*Why is Xfinity Internet required to use the Xfinity Stream app on a Partner Device?*
Partner Devices need an Internet connection to run their operating systems. Since they lack the capability to connect to two different networks at the same time, they must connect to a single device that can deliver access to both our managed cable network and the Internet simultaneously. Currently, the only way to access both at the same time is through the modem or Gateway used with your Xfinity Internet service.

_
That "currently" has always led me to believe that there are plans to expand availability--otherwise why would they leave that door open?


----------



## NashGuy

chiguy50 said:


> That's a thorough explanation. Thank you for that!
> 
> The reason that I mention using Xfinity Stream w/o a Comcast HSI sub is the following verbiage on the Comcast support site:
> 
> _*Why is Xfinity Internet required to use the Xfinity Stream app on a Partner Device?*
> Partner Devices need an Internet connection to run their operating systems. Since they lack the capability to connect to two different networks at the same time, they must connect to a single device that can deliver access to both our managed cable network and the Internet simultaneously. Currently, the only way to access both at the same time is through the modem or Gateway used with your Xfinity Internet service.
> 
> _
> That "currently" has always led me to believe that there are plans to expand availability--otherwise why would they leave that door open?


I believe at some point that ALL new Xfinity TV subscribers will be served via IPTV. Right now, the only ones whom Comcast can and will serve via 100% IPTV (rather than QAM TV) are those who also take Xfinity broadband (and possibly only those broadband subscribers who use a Comcast-issued gateway, i.e. combo modem/router).

But Comcast has indicated that at some point they will allow customers to sign up for only TV service through them and still be served via 100% IPTV. Presumably, Comcast would issue the customer a locked-down gateway that would be used only for streaming Comcast's own IPTV service but which could not be used for general internet access. They already do the same thing for folks who sign up for Xfinity home phone service but not broadband. I have an aunt and uncle who do that. They have a Comcast voice modem in their house but AFAIK it can't be used to access any other form of the internet besides Comcast's VOIP service.


----------



## PeteB

This is so unacceptable. I thought it wasn't too a big deal cause I could use my ROKU, but today I realized that nothing on Xfinity OnDemand shows up in the TIVO searches, so you can't tell what's on/available from the TIVO. I think this is the last straw for me and TIVO, (starting way back when they took away the podcasts).


----------



## morac

PeteB said:


> This is so unacceptable. I thought it wasn't too a big deal cause I could use my ROKU, but today I realized that nothing on Xfinity OnDemand shows up in the TIVO searches, so you can't tell what's on/available from the TIVO. I think this is the last straw for me and TIVO, (starting way back when they took away the podcasts).


It's been years since XOD showed up in Tivo searches.


----------



## chiguy50

NashGuy said:


> I believe at some point that ALL new Xfinity TV subscribers will be served via IPTV. Right now, the only ones whom Comcast can and will serve via 100% IPTV (rather than QAM TV) are those who also take Xfinity broadband (and possibly only those broadband subscribers who use a Comcast-issued gateway, i.e. combo modem/router).
> 
> But *Comcast has indicated that at some point they will allow customers to sign up for only TV service through them and still be served via 100% IPTV. Presumably, Comcast would issue the customer a locked-down gateway that would be used only for streaming Comcast's own IPTV service but which could not be used for general internet access.* They already do the same thing for folks who sign up for Xfinity home phone service but not broadband. I have an aunt and uncle who do that. They have a Comcast voice modem in their house but AFAIK it can't be used to access any other form of the internet besides Comcast's VOIP service.


I see. So you are intimating that the scenario addressed by the "currently" proviso above is when a TV customer is served by a third-party ISP but has a locked-down Comcast gateway solely for IPTV? That makes total sense.


----------



## NashGuy

chiguy50 said:


> I see. So you are intimating that the scenario addressed by the "currently" proviso above is when a TV customer is served by a third-party ISP but has a locked-down Comcast gateway solely for IPTV? That makes total sense.


Yes. Well, once Comcast issues an IPTV-only gateway (probably just a locked-down version of their XB6 combo modem/router), that device would handle any and all IP traffic necessary for the Xfinity Stream app (and, of course, their own X1 boxes such as the Xi5 and Xi6) to operate. The customer wouldn't need any further type of broadband access from anyone in order to access his Xfinity TV service. And, should the customer change his mind and decide to take broadband from Comcast in addition to the IPTV service he already has, Comcast could flip a switch and immediately commence service.

(I do imagine that Comcast would enable a public wifi hotspot on those locked-down IPTV-only gateways, though. Why not? Like all their current hotspots, it would only be accessible by current Comcast broadband customers who would need to use their account login to access the hotspot.)

Comcast was hinting at the prospect of doing something like this way back when Xfinity Instant TV, their initial foray into 100% IPTV service, launched a couple years ago. But AFAIK, they still haven't done it.


----------



## samccfl99

Hi, so I got a Roku Premier+ today. When the Xfinity Stream App Beta comes up, after it loads and says Initializing, it gets an error. It says SORRY, TRY AGAIN LATER...LOL. No error code. Anyone? Thanks.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

May I assume that you added the LOL? Or was that part of the error message?


----------



## samccfl99

Rob Helmerichs said:


> May I assume that you added the LOL? Or was that part of the error message?


That was not funny or helpful...Really?


----------



## wmcbrine

samccfl99 said:


> That was not funny or helpful...Really?


I'm pretty sure it was a sincere question. I wondered the same. It seems unlikely that they'd say "LOL", but I don't know. I suggest quotation marks to reduce ambiguity.

I've seen similar error messages (with no "LOL") on a number of Roku apps, but not the Xfinity app. Worse, some other apps do nothing and just bounce back to the home menu. (Some of those were among the default apps!)


----------



## schatham

samccfl99 said:


> Hi, so I got a Roku Premier+ today. When the Xfinity Stream App Beta comes up, after it loads and says Initializing, it gets an error. It says SORRY, TRY AGAIN LATER...LOL. No error code. Anyone? Thanks.


Are you using Xfinity internet? You need to be on your home network. Make sure the Roku did not use the free Xfinity internet that you or your neighbors router may be showing if not turned off.

Did you activate the Roku?

If so delete the app, then add it again.


----------



## samccfl99

schatham said:


> Are you using Xfinity internet? you need to be on your home network.


Yes, it is connected to my xfinity home internet via wireless (no ethernet on P+). I mean it updated the Roku and I put the wireless key in and other apps work on it. Bummer. I guess I will keep trying, but I have at different intervals. It never finishes initializing, so those menu screens don't come up like I saw on the xfinity website instructions (yes, they are there...LOL).

Maybe I should uninstall the app and re-install it. Probably useless.


----------



## Phil T

I have a Premier and have no issues with the Xfinity app, other then the app itself is hard to navigate. Wonder if you got a bad device? Do other apps work ok?


----------



## morac

samccfl99 said:


> Yes, it is connected to my xfinity home internet via wireless (no ethernet on P+). I mean it updated the Roku and I put the wireless key in and other apps work on it. Bummer. I guess I will keep trying, but I have at different intervals. It never finishes initializing, so those menu screens don't come up like I saw on the xfinity website instructions (yes, they are there...LOL).
> 
> Maybe I should uninstall the app and re-install it. Probably useless.


Sounds like Xfinity stream app/ Roku - Quit initializing: Sorr... - Xfinity Help and Support Forums - 3224385 which from what I've read seems to be an account problem.

You can try following the trouble shooting steps there, but you'll probably have to contact Comcast either on their forums or by calling them. You may have more luck on the forums as the moderators there can escalate tickets to the Stream teams as opposed to the phone support who will tell you to reboot your modem.

XFINITY Stream on Roku


----------



## samccfl99

I tried it again and it went thru and I logged on and I said WTF? Oh, that's right...it looks like that damn X1 and probably TE4...YUCK! Give me the old interface back, this is progress??? 

I should have saved the $44 for this Roku P+ (said it had a faster processor, and it seems fast enough). Maybe I will get Nexflix for a little while and use it for that, even though the Tivo and my Blu-Ray are capable of that too...

I did try several times earlier...before I posted.


----------



## PeteB

morac said:


> It's been years since XOD showed up in Tivo searches.


Not true. I've been getting them up until this week without any issues.


----------



## morac

PeteB said:


> Not true. I've been getting them up until this week without any issues.


XOD hasn't shown up in my guide data since Tivo switched to Rovi's guide data. It made searching XOD impossible, which is why I hardly ever used it except when I had a recording get screwed up.


----------



## chiguy50

PeteB said:


> Not true. I've been getting them up until this week without any issues.


That's strange--and fortunate for you. Like morac, I have not seen a single XoD hit on any TiVo searches for months at the very least.


----------



## chiguy50

I noticed recently that the audio on the Roku Xfinity Stream app is limited to PCM 2.0, which is disappointing to me considering that much of the same Comcast programming is in DD 5.1 over cable. I was hoping to see them use a DD+ container for streaming as so many other apps do.

Does anyone know whether this is also the case for OD streams on the X1? If not, then perhaps we can look forward to an audio upgrade when the Roku Xfinity Stream app emerges from its beta period.


----------



## HerronScott

PeteB said:


> Not true. I've been getting them up until this week without any issues.





chiguy50 said:


> That's strange--and fortunate for you. Like morac, I have not seen a single XoD hit on any TiVo searches for months at the very least.


It's only been a few months here as well since the XoD content stopped showing up in searches here but even if it had been showing up recently I would have expected that to stop once the XoD app was discontinued.

If they really do release a new app, hopefully the content will show up in TiVo searches again.

Scott


----------



## primaryforce

samccfl99 said:


> Yes, it is connected to my xfinity home internet via wireless (no ethernet on P+). I mean it updated the Roku and I put the wireless key in and other apps work on it. Bummer. I guess I will keep trying, but I have at different intervals. It never finishes initializing, so those menu screens don't come up like I saw on the xfinity website instructions (yes, they are there...LOL).
> 
> Maybe I should uninstall the app and re-install it. Probably useless.


Remove the Xfinity Stream app then reboot both your modem and router. Then reinstall the app and your problem should be resolved. I had the same problem and this resolved it for me with my Roku streaming stick.


----------



## pdhenry

samccfl99 said:


> YUCK! Give me the old interface back, this is progress???


You mean the 1985 Compuserve interface, or was the TE4 UI for XOD different from the TE3 UI?


----------



## mschnebly

pdhenry said:


> You mean the 1985 Compuserve interface, or was the TE4 UI for XOD different from the TE3 UI?


I want my Commodore VIC-20 back!!!  It was an 8-bit behemoth!


----------



## WVZR1

chiguy50 said:


> I noticed recently that the audio on the Roku Xfinity Stream app is limited to PCM 2.0, which is disappointing to me considering that much of the same Comcast programming is in DD 5.1 over cable. I was hoping to see them use a DD+ container for streaming as so many other apps do.
> 
> Does anyone know whether this is also the case for OD streams on the X1? If not, then perhaps we can look forward to an audio upgrade when the Roku Xfinity Stream app emerges from its beta period.


I just this evening tried the XOD using my Xfinity XG1V4 and I was quite pleased. I posted regarding it and I'm sure its 'full featured' audio. I'll try a couple more tomorrow. I believe the Darbee is next. If you stream the current season on broadcast CBS S1/E1 etc of 'The Good Fight' unless you subscribe to 'ALL ACCESS' does it come from 'ALL ACCESS'?

Having just seen this post it seems another ++++ to the Xfinity box with a package. I'm getting happier every day it seems.


----------



## chiguy50

chiguy50 said:


> I noticed recently that the audio on the Roku Xfinity Stream app is limited to PCM 2.0, which is disappointing to me considering that much of the same Comcast programming is in DD 5.1 over cable. I was hoping to see them use a DD+ container for streaming as so many other apps do.
> 
> Does anyone know whether this is also the case for OD streams on the X1? If not, then perhaps we can look forward to an audio upgrade when the Roku Xfinity Stream app emerges from its beta period.


I have heard from a Comcast Support rep that the X1 does not have this audio restriction for its OD streaming. However, he was not willing to speculate on any changes forthcoming once the Xfinity Stream app is fully operational, but I suspect that this is one area that will be improved upon.

I also noticed that I can access HBO GO on the Roku via my Xfinity subscription (something I can also do on my Amazon Fire TV 4K, but not on the Nvidia Shield or Sony XBR-65Z9D) and the same programs that were transmitted in PCM 2.0 on the Xfinity Stream are being sent in DD+.


----------



## GDTech

TiVo_Ted said:


> Starting a new thread on TiVo support for Comcast Xfinity customers.
> 
> First, nationwide support for Comcast linear TV services is not changing. Comcast and TiVo still support our mutual customers accessing the full Xfinity live TV service on TiVo DVR's with the use of a CableCARD decoder provided by Comcast.
> 
> What is changing is that Comcast and TiVo are announcing the end of support for the current Xfinity VOD application. The reason behind this is that the servers which are supporting this VOD application are running on an older operating system which has passed end-of-support.
> 
> Those of you that have used the Xfinity VOD application on TiVo have probably noticed that it is quite dated by now. This is because the VOD application was written on top of TiVo's old HME architecture which we no longer use now that HTML5 has taken off.
> 
> TiVo and Comcast are actively working together on a plan to bring a more modern Xfinity application to TiVo customers. I can't give you any more details on that now, but stay tuned. In the meantime, there are several other applications on TiVo that may fill the gap in the interim.


Are they really working on something or is it money and contract issues for which is usually the case?


----------



## krkaufman

Grrr... my first annoyance at the loss of XOD4TiVo: I missed the premiere episode of HBO's "Years and Years," but got a OnePass setup subsequently, so I should get the rest of the series. Checking HBO.com indicates they'll be re-airing S1E1 in a couple weeks on HBO2...

Mon, Jul 155:00 pm CT HBO2
Sun, Jul 218:30 am CT HBO2
... except our Comcast region only provides HD quality on the main HBO channel, HBO-E, so we'll have to record the SD rebroadcasts. Boo.


----------



## schatham

krkaufman said:


> Grrr... my first annoyance at the loss of XOD4TiVo: I missed the premiere episode of HBO's "Years and Years," but got a OnePass setup subsequently, so I should get the rest of the series. Checking HBO.com indicates they'll be re-airing S1E1 in a couple weeks on HBO2...
> 
> Mon, Jul 155:00 pm CT HBO2
> Sun, Jul 218:30 am CT HBO2
> ... except our Comcast region only provides HD quality on the main HBO channel, HBO-E, so we'll have to record the SD rebroadcasts. Boo.


I missed that one also on the Tivo, I forgot to record it. I think my X1 recorded it or it's on demand. Don't you have a Roku to watch on Demand?


----------



## krkaufman

schatham said:


> Don't you have a Roku to watch on Demand?


Yes, but that's a different issue. Having a Roku doesn't make the recording available in HD across all my TiVo boxes. (The Roku option is understood; and I watched the premiere episode via a Roku.)


----------



## LoraJ

So I wiped the dust off of my Roku 4 yesterday and downloaded the Xfinity app and LOVED it!!!! Maybe because it is beta, there were no commercials in anything I watched.

Plugged my Roku in today and it is DEAD! lol. The Roku's seem pretty cheap these days, guess I may just get a stick with the voice remote. Does the app work on all Roku's?


----------



## pdhenry

The app doesn't run on my old Roku LT but I think it runs on any current Roku or Roku TV. There's a compatibility list somewhere at Comcast.

Edit:
ANSWERED: What is Xfinity Stream on Roku and how does it work?

*The Xfinity Stream Beta app is available on the following Roku device models:*


The Roku 5XXX, 6XXX, 7XXX and 8XXX series TVs
Roku Streaming Media Players: Express (3700, 3900), Express+ (3710, 3910), Premier (4620), Premier+ (4630), Ultra (4640, 4660); Roku 4 (4400); Roku 3 (4200, 4230); Roku 2 (4210)
Roku Streaming Sticks: Streaming Stick (3600); and Streaming Stick+ (3800, 3810). Devices must be on minimum firmware version 7.5
My Roku TV is a 3000 series (32S327) and it works fine, but maybe not forever.


----------



## samccfl99

pdhenry said:


> You mean the 1985 Compuserve interface, or was the TE4 UI for XOD different from the TE3 UI?


NO, not the 1985 one that came with comcast boxes, silly! IDK if the TE4 XOD interface WAS the same as TE3 (I refuse to upgrade!). I just know I was very very happy with that interface compared to the original comcast XOD crap!!!


----------



## John Gehrke

A few questions. I am a Comcast user with a Tivo box (Roamio) that uses a cable card. Since Comcast no longer supports VoD I am looking for options to replace Comcast. I am not technically inclined so this is making my search harder. I thought maybe going with Hulu would be an option to replace Comcast with but Tivo won't support Hulu's HBO and Showtime package. I bought the Tivo specifically because it worked with Comcast so I may have worked myself into a corner. Will AT&T or Dish work with a cable card Tivo? Will these services provide VoD through Tivo?
I like and have gotten used to my Tivo interface and don't want to be forced to Comcast equipment. I dont want to buy any more equipment or subscribe to any new services except services that will replace Comcast. Any ideas on areas to explore would be appreciated.
Also, I am hearing rumors that a fix is in the works that will restore Comcast VoD on the Tivo. Although I think I heard the same thing about Tivo supporting Comcast HBOgo at some point in the past and that has never happened. Just seems these two entities have decided to not play well together and if I have to choose I want to choose Tivo if at all possible. So if anyone knows that a fix is really in the works I can limp through a while longer but if not, I am exploring options to Comcast. Thanks


----------



## pdhenry

TiVo supports Amazon Prime's HBO and Showtime, but as single add-ons rather than "package." Currently I subscribe to one such streaming service (in addition to Amazon) at a time.

I still believe that the TiVo VOD issue is temporary, but I also have Rokus as workarounds on most of my TVs.


----------



## NorthAlabama

John Gehrke said:


> A few questions. I am a Comcast user with a Tivo box (Roamio) that uses a cable card. Since Comcast no longer supports VoD I am looking for options to replace Comcast. I am not technically inclined so this is making my search harder. I thought maybe going with Hulu would be an option to replace Comcast with but Tivo won't support Hulu's HBO and Showtime package. I bought the Tivo specifically because it worked with Comcast so I may have worked myself into a corner. Will AT&T or Dish work with a cable card Tivo? Will these services provide VoD through Tivo?
> I like and have gotten used to my Tivo interface and don't want to be forced to Comcast equipment. I dont want to buy any more equipment or subscribe to any new services except services that will replace Comcast. Any ideas on areas to explore would be appreciated.
> Also, I am hearing rumors that a fix is in the works that will restore Comcast VoD on the Tivo. Although I think I heard the same thing about Tivo supporting Comcast HBOgo at some point in the past and that has never happened. Just seems these two entities have decided to not play well together and if I have to choose I want to choose Tivo if at all possible. So if anyone knows that a fix is really in the works I can limp through a while longer but if not, I am exploring options to Comcast. Thanks


i know this is becoming a lengthy thread, i believe your best workarounds for xfinity vod were offered in post 33 (unfortunately, no tivo search integration):



morac said:


> As I posted earlier, my current "double play" contract includes HD without the HD fee and I tried the Xfinity 'stream' BETA Roku app yesterday to play On Demand and it worked fine. That's fine for people who a) have a Roku and b) have HD service. Otherwise people will have to use the Xfinity Stream web site or tablet/phone.
> 
> Basically there are a few options:
> 
> *Use Roku or Samsung TV Xfinity beta app* - This allows full access to the VOD library on a TV. Free while in Beta, but eventually will cost money. Restricted to SD unless you pay for or get HD service.
> https://www.xfinity.com/stream/- Comcast's Stream web site which includes VOD content.
> Table/phone version of Xfinity Stream app.
> Network app on another device.


----------



## DeltaOne

John Gehrke said:


> Since Comcast no longer supports VoD I am looking for options to replace Comcast


Folks here say the Xfinity Stream app on Roku works well. I picked up a Roku today on the Amazon "Prime" sale. Great deal.


----------



## NashGuy

John Gehrke said:


> A few questions. I am a Comcast user with a Tivo box (Roamio) that uses a cable card. Since Comcast no longer supports VoD I am looking for options to replace Comcast. I am not technically inclined so this is making my search harder. I thought maybe going with Hulu would be an option to replace Comcast with but Tivo won't support Hulu's HBO and Showtime package. I bought the Tivo specifically because it worked with Comcast so I may have worked myself into a corner. Will AT&T or Dish work with a cable card Tivo? Will these services provide VoD through Tivo?
> I like and have gotten used to my Tivo interface and don't want to be forced to Comcast equipment. I dont want to buy any more equipment or subscribe to any new services except services that will replace Comcast. Any ideas on areas to explore would be appreciated.
> Also, I am hearing rumors that a fix is in the works that will restore Comcast VoD on the Tivo. Although I think I heard the same thing about Tivo supporting Comcast HBOgo at some point in the past and that has never happened. Just seems these two entities have decided to not play well together and if I have to choose I want to choose Tivo if at all possible. So if anyone knows that a fix is really in the works I can limp through a while longer but if not, I am exploring options to Comcast. Thanks


The only pay TV services that work with TiVo are those provided by cable operators, like Comcast/Charter/Cox, plus Verizon FiOS. Your TiVo cannot work with satellite TV providers like DISH or DirecTV, nor can it work with AT&T Uverse TV. Since you mentioned AT&T, I'm guessing that you live in a part of the country where the local phone company is AT&T, not Verizon, meaning that Verizon FiOS TV service isn't available to you. If that's the case, then you simply don't have any other option besides Comcast TV where you live IF you want to keep using your TiVo.

The simplest solution for you would be to buy a $30 Roku Express or a $49 Roku Premiere+ (the extra $19 will get you a faster system, 4K HDR support, and a better quality remote control) and then switch over to the Roku device in order to use the Xfinity Stream app or the HBO Go app on it. I realize that's not as convenient as having your Xfinity OnDemand or HBO Go content available through the TiVo but I am seriously doubtful whether either of those things will become available, at least any time soon. (Xfinity supporting the HBO Go app on TiVo is the more likely scenario but I still wouldn't hold my breath on that.)


----------



## wmcbrine

NashGuy said:


> ... meaning that Verizon FiOS TV service isn't available to you. If that's the case, then you simply don't have any other option besides Comcast TV where you live IF you want to keep using your TiVo.


There are certain (small) areas with competitive cable providers. Namely, near me (though unfortunately not in my town), there's RCN, which operates in the same territories as Comcast and Fios, so some people have three QAM providers to choose from.


----------



## NashGuy

wmcbrine said:


> There are certain (small) areas with competitive cable providers. Namely, near me (though unfortunately not in my town), there's RCN, which operates in the same territories as Comcast and Fios, so some people have three QAM providers to choose from.


Wow. Lucky folks. But those situations are pretty rare looking nationwide. Again, sounds like he lives some place where Comcast and AT&T are the local options (as is the case where I and my family members in two other states live). It's possible that there's a bit of cableco overbuilding in those areas (e.g. both Comcast and Charter or Comcast and Cox serving the same neighborhood) but I've never heard of such.


----------



## leiff

If anyone's in SF Bay Area North Bay I've got a couple extra minis I could get rid of for $25 a pop


----------



## John Gehrke

NashGuy said:


> The only pay TV services that work with TiVo are those provided by cable operators, like Comcast/Charter/Cox, plus Verizon FiOS. Your TiVo cannot work with satellite TV providers like DISH or DirecTV, nor can it work with AT&T Uverse TV. Since you mentioned AT&T, I'm guessing that you live in a part of the country where the local phone company is AT&T, not Verizon, meaning that Verizon FiOS TV service isn't available to you. If that's the case, then you simply don't have any other option besides Comcast TV where you live IF you want to keep using your TiVo.
> 
> The simplest solution for you would be to buy a $30 Roku Express or a $49 Roku Premiere+ (the extra $19 will get you a faster system, 4K HDR support, and a better quality remote control) and then switch over to the Roku device in order to use the Xfinity Stream app or the HBO Go app on it. I realize that's not as convenient as having your Xfinity OnDemand or HBO Go content available through the TiVo but I am seriously doubtful whether either of those things will become available, at least any time soon. (Xfinity supporting the HBO Go app on TiVo is the more likely scenario but I still wouldn't hold my breath on that.)


This is the information I was looking for. Yes, I live in California and in my area the only Cable company I know of is Comcast. Verizion is not available (except cell coverage). The big three providers I know about in my area are Dish, AT&T and Comcast. In searching around it seems there is always something that does not work match up (something does not mesh with something else). I spent a lot of time trying to "thread the needle" and find services that would replace Comcast AND work with Tivo. Looks like that may not be an option. The only other thing to explore besides getting a Roku (I really don't need/want another box) is maybe getting HBO and Showtime through Amazon Prime (which I already have) and adding Hulu for TV shows. Then I could drop Comcast (except internet) and be set. At this point I don't even care if it costs more as long as I can pay Comcast less.

Thanks to all who offered advice and info.


----------



## chiguy50

John Gehrke said:


> This is the information I was looking for. Yes, I live in California and in my area the only Cable company I know of is Comcast. Verizion is not available (except cell coverage). The big three providers I know about in my area are Dish, AT&T and Comcast. In searching around it seems there is always something that does not work match up (something does not mesh with something else). I spent a lot of time trying to "thread the needle" and find services that would replace Comcast AND work with Tivo. Looks like that may not be an option. The only other thing to explore besides getting a Roku (I really don't need/want another box) is maybe getting HBO and Showtime through Amazon Prime (which I already have) and adding Hulu for TV shows. Then I could drop Comcast (except internet) and be set. At this point I don't even care if it costs more as long as I can pay Comcast less.
> 
> Thanks to all who offered advice and info.


I would suggest that you to take another look at NashGuy's excellent advice.

If I understand correctly, your principal issue at this time is the elimination of Comcast's VOD feature (XoD) on the TiVo. If you are willing to invest as little as $35 to $50 in a Roku streaming stick (as NashGuy suggested), it will grant you access to the Xfinity Stream (XS), which--even in its current beta status--is a vastly improved OD app over XoD. You will also be able to log in to HBO GO and Showtime Anytime on the Roku via your Comcast subscription to HBO and SHO. (N.B.: streaming within the XS does not count toward your Comcast data cap (if any) whereas streaming the same content via stand-alone apps will count against the cap.)

I would recommend that you at least try out the service via Roku stick before looking at more extreme (and costly) measures. If you are not satisfied, you can always return or resell the Roku or keep it for other streaming purposes at home or on the road.

FWIW, I myself opted for the Roku Ultra at $59 and am highly satisfied with the experience.


----------



## Yuterald

You could also get an Amazon Firestick for Xfinity streaming.


----------



## dishrich

LoraJ said:


> guess I may just get a stick with the voice remote. Does the app work on all Roku's?


My understanding is the voice remote feature on the Roku's does NOT work on the Xfinity app, as least according to a couple posts I saw elsewhere...


----------



## schatham

dishrich said:


> My understanding is the voice remote feature on the Roku's does NOT work on the Xfinity app, as least according to a couple posts I saw elsewhere...


Voice does not work with the app


----------



## chiguy50

Yuterald said:


> You could also get an Amazon Firestick for Xfinity streaming.


Unless you use a sideloading method (which not everyone is comfortable doing for a number of reasons), Xfinity Stream is not available for the Firestick.


----------



## humbb

Just an FYI: As I was browsing through the Xfinity VOD Stream app yesterday I noticed that there is a free preview of Acorn TV available through this weekend. Started bingeing "Line of Duty". For a quick binge I recommend "Acceptable Risk" (6 eps, I believe) which I watched during the last free preview.


----------



## schatham

The big flaw in the Roku app for Xfinity is the FF and rewind. No screenshots or any other way to see where you are other than looking at the timer and guessing how long commercials may be. On some other apps the right arrow will do a 30 second skip with a screen shot.


----------



## pdhenry

Does an X1 box do it any better? It's a pain, for sure.


----------



## chiguy50

Bear in mind that the Xfinity Stream app for Roku is still in beta status. I am hoping, at the least, that the crippled PCM 2.0 audio will eventually be upgraded to DD 5.1.


----------



## NashGuy

John Gehrke said:


> This is the information I was looking for. Yes, I live in California and in my area the only Cable company I know of is Comcast. Verizion is not available (except cell coverage). The big three providers I know about in my area are Dish, AT&T and Comcast. In searching around it seems there is always something that does not work match up (something does not mesh with something else). I spent a lot of time trying to "thread the needle" and find services that would replace Comcast AND work with Tivo. Looks like that may not be an option. The only other thing to explore besides getting a Roku (I really don't need/want another box) is maybe getting HBO and Showtime through Amazon Prime (which I already have) and adding Hulu for TV shows. Then I could drop Comcast (except internet) and be set. At this point I don't even care if it costs more as long as I can pay Comcast less.
> 
> Thanks to all who offered advice and info.


Glad I was helpful. Here's one more option: stick with what you have for now (Comcast internet + TV + TiVo) and then around November, check out a new nationwide TV service called AT&T TV. It will be a live cable TV service that comes with its own custom TV box and remote that does everything: live channels, on demand, cloud DVR, plus apps on the side for Netflix, YouTube, Hulu, Amazon Prime Video, etc. It's very slick, even supports 4K HDR and has a voice remote with Google Assistant built-in. This would replace your TiVo, so you could just sell it.

Just as Netflix can run over any company's home internet connection, AT&T TV will do the same (although you'd get a bundling discount -- probably $10 off per month -- if you could use it with AT&T's home internet service, if that's available for you). Pricing and channel packages are unknown at this point (although I have my guesses) but I guarantee you that every package will include HBO and the upcoming HBO Max service. We'll know a lot more when AT&T TV soft-launches in a few cities around the country (including Orange County/Riverside, CA) in August. But, as I say, the nationwide launch for anyone with any internet provider will happen in the 4th quarter, probably Nov.


----------



## DeltaOne

DeltaOne said:


> Folks here say the Xfinity Stream app on Roku works well. I picked up a Roku today on the Amazon "Prime" sale. Great deal.


Great deal or not, I'm returning the Roku Ultra. Two reasons:

1) I already have an Apple TV. While the Roku has the Xfinity Stream Beta, and the Apple TV doesn't...it's highly likely the Xfinity Stream app will eventually make its way to the Apple TV (and probably my TiVo too). Other than the Xfinity Stream Beta app, my Apple TV works better for us.

2) The stupid little box was broadcasting WiFi! Even though the Roku was connected via ethernet, it was broadcasting WiFi to its remote control. Want to turn WiFi off? Sure...unpair the remote and then you can turn WiFi off. Someone suggested I could then control the Roku from my smartphone...but no thanks...not interested.

While reason #1 is the primary reason for returning the Roku Ultra...it was reason #2 that ticked me off and prompted me to start the return with Amazon.


----------



## pdhenry

WiFi? Or RF?


----------



## KevTech

pdhenry said:


> WiFi? Or RF?


The Enhanced "point-anywhere" remote uses wireless.

Roku


----------



## pdhenry

No doubt. But the claim was that it was WiFi.


----------



## WVZR1

DeltaOne said:


> Great deal or not, I'm returning the Roku Ultra. Two reasons:
> 
> 1) I already have an Apple TV. While the Roku has the Xfinity Stream Beta, and the Apple TV doesn't...it's highly likely the Xfinity Stream app will eventually make its way to the Apple TV (and probably my TiVo too). Other than the Xfinity Stream Beta app, my Apple TV works better for us.
> 
> 2) The stupid little box was broadcasting WiFi! Even though the Roku was connected via ethernet, it was broadcasting WiFi to its remote control. Want to turn WiFi off? Sure...unpair the remote and then you can turn WiFi off. Someone suggested I could then control the Roku from my smartphone...but no thanks...not interested.
> 
> While reason #1 is the primary reason for returning the Roku Ultra...it was reason #2 that ticked me off and prompted me to start the return with Amazon.


I made the decision to take the Xfinity package that included the XG1V4 knowing that the XOD was gone (even though I had a Roku Ultra). I've run the XG1V4 and a Mini @ my 64"1080P Plasma display for nearly 2 weeks and the Roamio @ a secondary location. I regret it NOT. I also ran my L3TV 'side by side' again for 10 days. I did the disconnect with them this AM and they've sent the return box.

If you're an Xfinity TV user and 'near a negotiation' I'd say there's no reason to NOT get the XG1V4 with some sort of a 'renewal'!

Frederick Xfinity Store can be quite an experience - ain't always the same!!


----------



## JoeKustra

KevTech said:


> The Enhanced "point-anywhere" remote uses wireless.
> 
> Roku


WiFi Direct I think. I have my Ultra using its wireless and my router doesn't show an unknown device. I pulled the batteries and saw no change with inSSIDer.


----------



## wmcbrine

pdhenry said:


> No doubt. But the claim was that it was WiFi.


It is WiFi. It shows up on the list of access points on a computer or phone.

But why this bothers @DeltaOne is less clear.

Personally, I'm not betting on the Xfinity app ever coming to the Apple TV, much less the TiVo.


----------



## DeltaOne

pdhenry said:


> WiFi? Or RF?


WiFi. I'd have been fine with RF.


----------



## NashGuy

wmcbrine said:


> It is WiFi. It shows up on the list of access points on a computer or phone.
> 
> But why this bothers @DeltaOne is less clear.
> 
> Personally, I'm not betting on the Xfinity app ever coming to the Apple TV, much less the TiVo.


Gonna be very interesting to see just which TV-connected platforms that the Xfinity Stream app comes to. Apple TV? Fire TV? Android TV?

The question is complicated because I predict we'll see Comcast take their live cable channel bundle service nationwide OTT and probably begin selling their Xi6 4K HDR streaming box (or a similar next-gen iteration of it) nationwide too, as the preferred customized device for accessing their OTT services.

Comcast just announced that they plan to start selling their NBCU SVOD OTT in April 2020. I believe that they'll offer an optional add-on of one or more cable channel bundles inside that app (just as AT&T will do inside their HBO Max app next year and just as Disney already does inside their Hulu app). I've also predicted that Comcast would (or should) also offer a separate OTT service/app with their standard X1 UI (and ideally accessed via their Xi6 box) that would feature/emphasize the OTT cable channel bundle service, just as AT&T is going to do with their upcoming AT&T TV service and their own custom Android TV box.

See where all this is inevitably headed?


----------



## DeltaOne

JoeKustra said:


> WiFi Direct I think. I have my Ultra using its wireless and my router doesn't show an unknown device. I pulled the batteries and saw no change with inSSIDer.


At times my WiFi scanner would show a 5 GHz network named "DIRECT-roku-###" on channel 36 (with a very strong signal) and other times it would show a signal with a hidden SSID on channel 36 -- again with a strong signal.

This morning, before packing up the Roku, my WiFi scanner was showing a hidden SSID on channel 36. I pulled the power plug from the Roku and the SSID went away.

I never did try pulling the batteries from the remote control.


----------



## DeltaOne

wmcbrine said:


> It is WiFi. It shows up on the list of access points on a computer or phone. But why this bothers @DeltaOne is less clear. Personally, I'm not betting on the Xfinity app ever coming to the Apple TV, much less the TiVo.


I live in a rural area, so I don't see a ton of SSIDs anyway. But given the choice, I'd rather have fewer than more WiFi signals bouncing around. I already have a Vizio TV that broadcasts its own WiFi...I'm not happy about that either.

My wife was the one that wanted Xfinity On Demand for WE TV. (Women's Entertainment TV.) She said she would sometimes watch WE TV before we lost On Demand on our TiVo. On the Roku, via the Xfinity Stream app, some of WE TV was free. Some needed a subscription. It wasn't that important to her, no way would she pay for a subscription to WE TV.

As for me, no way I'd use the Roku before I'd use my Apple TV. So it won't hurt my feelings at all to send the Roku back.


----------



## DeltaOne

WVZR1 said:


> I made the decision to take the Xfinity package that included the XG1V4 knowing that the XOD was gone (even though I had a Roku Ultra). If you're an Xfinity TV user and 'near a negotiation' I'd say there's no reason to NOT get the XG1V4 with some sort of a 'renewal'!
> 
> Frederick Xfinity Store can be quite an experience - ain't always the same!!


I just got a new promo a few weeks ago that includes an X1 box. I didn't take it...but may go back next week to pick one up. My promo includes free Netflix...but it can only be activated on an X1 box. So I'll pick up an X1, activate the free Netflix and probably keep the X1 a week or two to see how I like it. Then, most likely, return the X1 and keep on with my TiVo.

My last two visits to the Frederick store (a few days ago and two years ago) went well. Both times the person that helped me was eager to find a deal that had the features I wanted and to save me money. No complaints from me.


----------



## NorthAlabama

DeltaOne said:


> I just got a new promo a few weeks ago that includes an X1 box. I didn't take it...but may go back next week to pick one up. My promo includes free Netflix...but it can only be activated on an X1 box. So I'll pick up an X1, activate the free Netflix and probably keep the X1 a week or two to see how I like it. Then, most likely, return the X1 and keep on with my TiVo.
> 
> My last two visits to the Frederick store (a few days ago and two years ago) went well. Both times the person that helped me was eager to find a deal that had the features I wanted and to save me money. No complaints from me.


in our market, if you currently don't have any comcast tv receivers on your account, doing as you're suggesting will automatically generate the pesky $10 hd access monthly fee (if you don't pay it already), and not everyone has been successful having it removed once the comcast equipment is gone.


----------



## DeltaOne

NorthAlabama said:


> in our market, if you currently don't have any comcast tv receivers on your account, doing as you're suggesting will automatically generate the pesky $10 hd access monthly fee (if you don't pay it already), and not everyone has been successful having it removed once the comcast equipment is gone.


The day I got the new promo the rep said taking the X1 box was $2.68 per month. No mention of the HD fee.

But...I have two Tivo's and two cable cards. The rep, and someone here, said the X1 box is automatically the primary outlet and that would mean paying ($7.50?) for one of the cable cards. So, if correct, the net increase would be around $10 a month.


----------



## schatham

DeltaOne said:


> The day I got the new promo the rep said taking the X1 box was $2.68 per month. No mention of the HD fee.
> 
> But...I have two Tivo's and two cable cards. The rep, and someone here, said the X1 box is automatically the primary outlet and that would mean paying ($7.50?) for one of the cable cards. So, if correct, the net increase would be around $10 a month.


$7.50 per card, so two will be $15. You won't get a HD fee anymore, it's built into the price.


----------



## pdhenry

schatham said:


> You won't get a HD fee anymore, it's built into the price.


The upside of that is they no longer cripple the app to SD if you hadn't been paying it.


----------



## NorthAlabama

pdhenry said:


> The upside of that is they no longer cripple the app to SD if you hadn't been paying it.


the xfinity app? it's always been in hd for me, many years now, no comcast equipment, and no $10 hd fee.


----------



## pdhenry

Not for me. They said in the support forum that if you didn't have the HD fee in your detailed bill you wouldn't get HD channels in the app - this was when the app first came out, like 1.5-2 years ago?

I stopped using the app until the TiVo VoD app stopped working. To my surprise I was able to tune all the HD channels - apparently because they no longer have a line item for the HD fee.


----------



## wmcbrine

DeltaOne said:


> But given the choice, I'd rather have fewer than more WiFi signals bouncing around. I already have a Vizio TV that broadcasts its own WiFi...I'm not happy about that either.


Because...?


----------



## DeltaOne

wmcbrine said:


> Because...?


Because it potentially causes interference with my WiFi. The Vizio display broadcasts on the 2.4 GHz spectrum, and I know what channel it uses -- so I've set my WiFi access point to use a different channel on that band. So, no interference. But the potential is there.

Boy...Amazon doesn't screw around with refunds. I shipped the Roku back at my local UPS Store, and an hour later Amazon had posted the refund.


----------



## chiguy50

pdhenry said:


> Not for me. They said in the support forum that if you didn't have the HD fee in your detailed bill you wouldn't get HD channels in the app - this was when the app first came out, like 1.5-2 years ago?
> 
> I stopped using the app until the TiVo VoD app stopped working. To my surprise I was able to tune all the HD channels - apparently because *they no longer have a line item for the HD fee*.


Correct (in theory) except that it is still in the system and is being applied to what Comcast terms "legacy" subscription tiers.


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## pdhenry

All I know is I get HD channels in the app now and I never had the fee.


----------



## compuguy

DeltaOne said:


> Because it potentially causes interference with my WiFi. The Vizio display broadcasts on the 2.4 GHz spectrum, and I know what channel it uses -- so I've set my WiFi access point to use a different channel on that band. So, no interference. But the potential is there.
> 
> Boy...Amazon doesn't screw around with refunds. I shipped the Roku back at my local UPS Store, and an hour later Amazon had posted the refund.


Because of the way 2.4 Ghz wifi is setup (at least in the United States) its pretty hard to avoid interference (especially if you live in a condo or apartment building).


----------



## pdhenry

pdhenry said:


> The upside of that is they no longer cripple the app to SD if you hadn't been paying it.


As of tonight when I had to reinstall the Xfinity Beta app on my Roku TV the HD channels are missing again.

Edit: Looks like a few people are discussing this on the support forums. They have HD everywhere but in the Roku app. Of course phone support has no idea why. Seems to be a glitch.


----------



## chiguy50

pdhenry said:


> As of tonight when I had to reinstall the Xfinity Beta app on my Roku TV the HD channels are missing again.
> 
> Edit: Looks like a few people are discussing this on the support forums. They have HD everywhere but in the Roku app. Of course phone support has no idea why. Seems to be a glitch.


Unfortunately, the crippled audio is NOT a glitch. It's a major drawback for me.



chiguy50 said:


> Bear in mind that the Xfinity Stream app for Roku is still in beta status. I am hoping, at the least, that the crippled PCM 2.0 audio will eventually be upgraded to DD 5.1.


----------



## Beryl

The beta app on Roku wasn’t working at all — multiple devices were tried. I deleted/installed the app and that didn’t help. Today it appears to work. Xfinity Internet and TV service was operational but not the streaming. I couldn’t get streaming to work well on my iPad either. 

Is there a system status link for the streaming service to see if the problem is on the Xfinity side (as it appears to be this time)?


----------



## chiguy50

Beryl said:


> The beta app on Roku wasn't working at all - multiple devices were tried. I deleted/installed the app and that didn't help. Today it appears to work. Xfinity Internet and TV service was operational but not the streaming. I couldn't get streaming to work well on my iPad either.
> 
> Is there a system status link for the streaming service to see if the problem is on the Xfinity side (as it appears to be this time)?


I am not aware of any such status report per se, but you could check (or post your query) on the Xfinity Community Forum page for the Stream TV App:

Stream TV App - Xfinity Help and Support Forums


----------



## mattyro7878

I was willing to be patient when the app was removed. I think by now we should be hearing talk of it's replacement. The only way to get certain channels is through the app or on demand. Plus with all 28 (?) seasons of the Simpsons available I was very happy to spend some time with seasons 4-17 !!


----------



## laria

I'm kind of irritated at myself now for watching the first episode of the last season of Westworld and then just not going back to it. I have all but the premiere on there and I kept figuring, well, I can rewatch the premiere on streaming when I get back to watching this, only now I can't since neither the Xfinity app nor the HBO GO app are available on the TiVo. I'll have to rewire my home theater and get the Xfinity box in there so I can watch it.


----------



## jlb

Stream app is working fine for me right now, FWIW









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Beryl

jlb said:


> Stream app is working fine for me right now, FWIW


It started working again the next day. It surprised me that streaming wouldn't work while other services would. The Xfinity account app does not include Streaming on its outage map.


----------



## NorthAlabama

Beryl said:


> It started working again the next day. It surprised me that streaming wouldn't work while other services would. The Xfinity account app does not include Streaming on its outage map.


the xfinity stream app has always been very reliable for me on my tablet, though it can be persnickety with chrome browsers, so i use the older edge browser to stream on my pc since support for ie is phasing away (it always worked through ie) - if you have any troubles streaming, clear the web (or app) cache, reboot, then try again.

since it's flash-based, a new app should be on the way soon enough.


----------



## chiguy50

laria said:


> I'm kind of irritated at myself now for watching the first episode of the last season of Westworld and then just not going back to it. I have all but the premiere on there and I kept figuring, well, I can rewatch the premiere on streaming when I get back to watching this, only now I can't since neither the Xfinity app nor the HBO GO app are available on the TiVo. I'll have to rewire my home theater and get the Xfinity box in there so I can watch it.


If you are willing to fork over as little as $25 to $35, you can solve this dilemma by purchasing any new Roku streaming device. An added bonus is that the Roku offers far more streaming options than your TiVo and a vastly improved Xfinity Stream interface.


----------



## pdhenry

I'd wait until HD channels are back in the Roku app before buying a Roku, though.


----------



## laria

I would prefer an Apple TV... but it's not the cost, it's really the inertia about reorganizing the entire home theater and reprogramming the Harmony remote that we do not ever use anymore since the TiVo peanut can handle just the current TV/TiVo/receiver setup ok.


----------



## chiguy50

laria said:


> I would prefer an Apple TV... but it's not the cost, it's really the inertia about reorganizing the entire home theater and reprogramming the Harmony remote that we do not ever use anymore since the TiVo peanut can handle just the current TV/TiVo/receiver setup ok.


I understand the hesitation. But, specifically regarding your quest for the Westworld catalog, with a Roku you can use HBO GO by signing in to the app (via your Comcast account credentials assuming that you subscribe through that service). That's the best way to access content since the XS Beta app is limiting the audio to PCM 2.0.


----------



## chiguy50

pdhenry said:


> I'd wait until HD channels are back in the Roku app before buying a Roku, though.


Are you referring to live TV? I don't use the XS app for live TV so I do not see this. There does not appear to be any problem with any of the VOD shows I watch on the app.


----------



## pdhenry

Given that this thread is about the loss of the TiVo app most of us have been talking about its de facto (interim) replacement, the Xfinity app on the Roku.

I noticed in May that I could tune HD live channels which had been missing from my Roku streaming lineup but they're gone again this week.


----------



## Beryl

chiguy50 said:


> Are you referring to live TV? I don't use the XS app for live TV so I do not see this. There does not appear to be any problem with any of the VOD shows I watch on the app.


Thanks for this confirmation. I don't need the app for live TV either but certainly see VOD HD content on the Roku. (I need eye surgery so I was a little concerned.)


----------



## laria

chiguy50 said:


> I understand the hesitation. But, specifically regarding your quest for the Westworld catalog, with a Roku you can use HBO GO by signing in to the app (via your Comcast account credentials assuming that you subscribe through that service). That's the best way to access content since the XS Beta app is limiting the audio to PCM 2.0.


I could also hook up the X1 box that's gathering dust on my living room floor and use the On Demand through there.


----------



## humbb

pdhenry said:


> Given that this thread is about the loss of the TiVo app most of us have been talking about its de facto (interim) replacement, the Xfinity app on the Roku.
> 
> I noticed in May that I could tune HD live channels which had been missing from my Roku streaming lineup but they're gone again this week.


I just checked, and my Roku Ultra receives all my live HD channels on the XStream Beta app. SF Bay Area.


----------



## chiguy50

pdhenry said:


> Given that this thread is about the loss of the TiVo app *most of us have been talking about its de facto (interim) replacement, the Xfinity app on the Roku.*
> 
> I noticed in May that I could tune HD live channels which had been missing from my Roku streaming lineup but they're gone again this week.


Yes, that was my reference, too. The app we are talking about is what Comcast generally refers to as the Xfinity Stream Beta (XS) for compatible partner devices on the Roku.

But I tried out live TV on the app just now (for the first time) and I see what you mean. There is no access to the HD channels. If that is what you want to use the app for, then it is a very big deal IMO.


----------



## chiguy50

pdhenry said:


> I noticed in May that I could tune HD live channels which had been missing from my Roku streaming lineup but they're gone again this week.





humbb said:


> I just checked, and my Roku Ultra receives all my live HD channels on the XStream Beta app. SF Bay Area.


I wonder whether the difference relates to whether the account is coded with the HD Technology fee? I do not pay that fee but still receive all of the HD channels over my CableCARD-enabled TiVO. Perhaps the XS app currently relies on that fee coding to provision the HD channels.

Whatever the issue, it appears to be isolated to the XS app on the Roku since I have those HD channels using XS on my Adroid tablet and iPhone.

I also noted that the Roku XS app does not show my saved "Favorite Channels" even though they are reflected on all the other devices. So something appears to be very different in the app performance on this one type of "Partner Device."


----------



## pdhenry

humbb said:


> I just checked, and my Roku Ultra receives all my live HD channels on the XStream Beta app. SF Bay Area.


Do you have a Comcast device that's authorized to tune HD channels?

Before they eliminated the HD fee (I don't pay it because I've only ever had HD TiVos, not Comcast STBs) I was told by a Comcast employee on their help forum that the reason I couldn't tune HD was because there wasn't an HD fee on my bill. I don't know if that's correct but the next time I tried they apparently had eliminated the fee and I could tune all live channels in my lineup. Now I can't, on a couple of Rokus in my home.

VOD appears to be in HD (but mostly Comcast is just repackaging programming available via each network's free/included VOD anyway).


----------



## humbb

pdhenry said:


> Do you have a Comcast device that's authorized to tune HD channels?


I have a Triple Play package that includes "HD programming", but I only use the free CableCard and receive the customer owned equipment rebate.


----------



## pdhenry

I had assumed the HD fee originated when they had SD and HD STBs and it reflected higher-tier hardware. The Cable cards in my TiVos have always tuned everything (I think this is as it should be) at least in part because I wanted the equipment that had the HD technology in it. The Roku app is th first instance in which they made programming tier decisions based on it. I suppose I could ask them, I wonder what they'd tell me today if there's no longer a fee specific to HD.


----------



## humbb

The current rate card (10/1/2019) for my area shows the following under "Xfinity TV Services":
HD Technology Fee[6] $10.00
[6]Not available to customers with Limited Basic only. Must subscribe to HD Technology Fee to receive HD programming.


----------



## NorthAlabama

i've never paid the "hd technology fee" or any comcast hd equipment, and have always received live and on demand hd channels though tivo (cable card & app), xfinity stream app, and web browser.


----------



## chiguy50

pdhenry said:


> I had assumed the HD fee originated when they had SD and HD STBs and it reflected higher-tier hardware. The Cable cards in my TiVos have always tuned everything (I think this is as it should be) at least in part because I wanted the equipment that had the HD technology in it. The Roku app is th first instance in which they made programming tier decisions based on it. I suppose I could ask them, I wonder what they'd tell me today if there's no longer a fee specific to HD.


As humbb points out, that spurious HD Technology Fee does still exist for some customers. It is being phased out under the new billing structure but still applies to certain legacy service tiers or equipment.


----------



## laria

I've also never had an HD fee and I have also always (from 2000 up until last December), only had TiVos. I got an X1 as part of switching to our current package and I kept it because I needed to sign into Netflix from it to get my Netflix subscription paid for by Comcast (part of the package), and then never returned it, so I'm still paying the outlet fee for it since we still also have the TiVo/cablecard. But from 2006 until then, we only had cablecards, and HD always worked fine.


----------



## WVZR1

HD FEE - For me it worked this way.

16 or so months ago I wanted to compare the Xfinity 'streaming' using Roku to actual TiVo (CableCard). I was only interested in comparing PQ on my 1080P Plasma. Using the Roku (ultra) and Xfinity 'Beta' I got only SD - I was told that even though I had CC and HD programming the Xfinity 'streaming' would only do SD unless I paid the fee. I paid the fee for 30 days and it worked. PQ was no different using the Roku vs CC so I actually left Xfinity for L3TV. L3TV was an interesting experience for 13 months.

It would be interesting for someone who now has only TiVo & CC with no Xfinity devices to check their billing and if no HD FEE see if their Roku does HD or just SD. I understand that there's also audio sacrifices using the Xfinity 'beta'.

When I returned to Xfinity I took an XG1VA as well as TiVo w/CC - I haven't used my Roku since the return.

*** THE HD FEE needed to be added to the accounting/billing


----------



## pdhenry

Just in case it wasn't clear, I'm only missing the HD live channels on the Roku app. The TiVos on cable can tune the entire lineup.


----------



## chiguy50

pdhenry said:


> Just in case it wasn't clear, I'm only missing the HD live channels on the Roku app. The TiVos on cable can tune the entire lineup.


Yes, and I am seeing the same here (i.e., HD channels missing solely in the XS app on Roku). My only Comcast-provided equipment is the CableCARD in my TiVo and I do not have the HD Technology Fee or an "HD Included" entry in my account. So this represents a major drawback to the XS on Roku app as presently constituted.

Since the app is still in Beta status, all of this could change at any time--for the better or the worse. They could start provisioning the HD channels for everyone, or they could leave as is and add in a $5 or $10 additional outlet fee that the FAQ page mentions as a possibility.

_The Xfinity Stream app for Partner Devices is currently offered in a "beta" version that doesn't include the full set of features and functionality that comes with the Xfinity Stream app or the web portal. Future releases of the app will include additional features and functionality, as well as improved stability and optimization. When using the "beta" app, you won't be charged an "additional outlet" service charge. Pricing may change in the future.
_
Also:
_
*Is there an additional charge for using a Partner Device?*
There's no additional charge for using the Xfinity Stream app on Partner Devices. All other fees associated with your service will still apply, except during the beta trial, we're waiving the "additional outlet" service charge if you use the Stream app on a Partner Device. Pricing may change in the future._


----------



## slowbiscuit

I have the same setup as you in the ATL (Cablecard and nothing else) and get the HD channels live on Roku. Try going into options at the channel select screen (* key) and filter by HD.


----------



## chiguy50

slowbiscuit said:


> I have the same setup as you in the ATL (Cablecard and nothing else) and get the HD channels live on Roku. Try going into options at the channel select screen (* key) and filter by HD.


I had already looked there, but I don't even have an option to filter by HD.

I wonder what else could be different about your setup that explains the discrepancy?

TBH, I have not yet and don't plan on using the Live TV channels on the XS app for Roku, but I would like to have the option of doing so and HD is all I ever watch or intend to watch.


----------



## slowbiscuit

The new app released for LG OLEDs (which I just installed) also has HD channels here. Definitely some sort of account-based flag because we don't have the HD tech fee. All I have is Digital Preferred double play package which all new customers can get.

But yeah as long as we have Comcast and Tivo there's no need for live TV in the app. My wife uses VOD in it all the time though.


----------



## chiguy50

slowbiscuit said:


> The new app released for LG OLEDs (which I just installed) also has HD channels here. Definitely some sort of account-based flag because *we don't have the HD tech fee*. All I have is Digital Preferred double play package which all new customers can get.
> 
> But yeah as long as we have Comcast and Tivo there's no need for live TV in the app. My wife uses VOD in it all the time though.


I understand that, like me, you are not being charged an "HD Technology Fee," but is there a line entry on your bill for this fee?

I do not have that entry on my billing statement, and one theory is that your package must specifically include the HD tech fee (whether for a charge or for $0) in order for the Roku XS Beta app to include the HD channels.

I'd appreciate it if you could confirm this for me. If your billing is the same as mine (no mention of an HD tech fee) then I have to assume that the omission of the HD channels on the app here is due to some accounting machination, as you have theorized.


----------



## WVZR1

chiguy50 said:


> I understand that, like me, you are not being charged an "HD Technology Fee," but is there a line entry on your bill for this fee?
> 
> I do not have that entry on my billing statement, and one theory is that your package must specifically include the HD tech fee (whether for a charge or for $0) in order for the Roku XS Beta app to include the HD channels.
> 
> I'd appreciate it if you could confirm this for me. If your billing is the same as mine (no mention of an HD tech fee) then I have to assume that the omission of the HD channels on the app here is due to some accounting machination, as you have theorized.


I'd think that the app added to LG and the Samsung 'if' you've an Xfinity service that includes HD then the HD services are 'populated', I'd doubt there would be notations in billing/accounting. The app might just assume (more/less) you're an "INSTANT TV' subscriber or valid Xfinity TV subscriber of some sort.

Exclusive: Comcast's Xfinity Stream is Coming to Some LG Smart TVs - Cord Cutters News


----------



## pdhenry

WVZR1 said:


> 'if' you've an Xfinity service that includes HD


For some reason a Cable Card in a TiVo doesn't seem to trip this trigger.


----------



## WVZR1

pdhenry said:


> For some reason a Cable Card in a TiVo doesn't seem to trip this trigger.


I'd think only some LG & Samsung 'displays' might. Do you use/own any of the displays ID'd in the link I provided?

@slowbiscuit does!!!

16 or so months ago mine didn't either and I mentioned previously that I paid the FEE for a month to experiment with PQ.


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## pdhenry

Well, that's just crazy (or completely expected of Comcast).


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## WVZR1

pdhenry said:


> Well, that's just crazy (or completely expected of Comcast).


Maybe NOT - the Roku app is mentioned to be 'BETA' - I'd think an app on a 'display' provided through the manufacturer to be other than BETA. Who knows!

It might be interesting 'maybe' for any owner of the mentioned displays & the most current app check their operation regardless of their location.


----------



## slowbiscuit

chiguy50 said:


> I understand that, like me, you are not being charged an "HD Technology Fee," but is there a line entry on your bill for this fee?
> 
> I do not have that entry on my billing statement, and one theory is that your package must specifically include the HD tech fee (whether for a charge or for $0) in order for the Roku XS Beta app to include the HD channels.
> 
> I'd appreciate it if you could confirm this for me. If your billing is the same as mine (no mention of an HD tech fee) then I have to assume that the omission of the HD channels on the app here is due to some accounting machination, as you have theorized.


There is no HD Tech fee line on my bill, never has been. And we've had HD channels on the Roku ever since the app came out for it, IIRC.


----------



## WVZR1

slowbiscuit said:


> There is no HD Tech fee line on my bill, never has been. And we've had HD channels on the Roku ever since the app came out for it, IIRC.


You mentioned Roku but you mentioned LG APP recently!

Someone in your 'market' posted elsewhere that the LG APP defaults NOW to 'other than HD' resolution. That poster mentioned a recent 'update'. I didn't recognize the 'user ID'. Your LG does what this evening using the LG APP for VOD & LIVE?


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## BigJimOutlaw

I don't have Comcast, but some folks in the Tivo Innovate facebook group are saying* HBO Go* might activate... They say to use a browser to activate and keep refreshing and it will "eventually" work. One person had to try about 10 times.

Anybody with HBO, give it a shot.


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## humbb

Bingo! Only had to refresh once (used Firefox).
Thanks!


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## chiguy50

slowbiscuit said:


> There is no HD Tech fee line on my bill, never has been. And we've had HD channels on the Roku ever since the app came out for it, IIRC.


Please see your PM's.


----------



## mazman

It's been three months with no VOD on Comcast. A Comcast rep told me the other day that VOD wasn't coming back to TiVo, but I tend not to believe that the reps are in a position to know. Still, it would be nice to know if the app will return in weeks, months or years. I don't understand TiVo's lack of any update on this project.


----------



## gary.buhrmaster

mazman said:


> It's been three months with no VOD on Comcast. A Comcast rep told me the other day that VOD wasn't coming back to TiVo, but I tend not to believe that the reps are in a position to know.


Smart move. The CSRs are no where near high enough in the food chain to know anything about corporate negotiations (C-level execs and Corporate Counsel are the only ones that would be in that group)


> Still, it would be nice to know if the app will return in weeks, months or years. I don't understand TiVo's lack of any update on this project.


While it is not impossible to imagine that someone who happens to lurk/participate here might know something, providing details about corporate negotiations would be a CEE (Career Ending Event).

One can find many willing to offer their WAGs. My answer, is as it always has been, for any feature, for any vendor, is if it is a feature you need today, purchase a solution which offers it today (promises, and delivery dates, are worth the paper (or electrons) they are not written on), and if you don't need it today, ignore the issue entirely.


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## jfalkingham

Just got a Samsung Q80r, they have the Xfinity stream app as a beta, installed and have vod. If TiVO won't give guidance to it's customers then it's up to us to fix it by any means. We used ondemand extensively thankfully we have an easy fix. 

Sent from my SM-N970U1 using Tapatalk


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## KevTech

mazman said:


> It's been three months with no VOD on Comcast. A Comcast rep told me the other day that VOD wasn't coming back to TiVo, but I tend not to believe that the reps are in a position to know. Still, it would be nice to know if the app will return in weeks, months or years. I don't understand TiVo's lack of any update on this project.


Yep it is not coming back to Tivo.
Was told this by a high up exec not a rep and don't ask me to name this person as I will not risk his/her job.


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## MileHigh96

I use my TiVo less and less now since the loss of VOD from Comcast. In fact, if I didn't use my Tivo's DVR capabilities, I would probably sell it and get rid of the service. Not only is there no more VOD access, the apps on the TiVo are awful when compared to using the Roku.

Combine all this with the complete silence on when (if) VOD is going to return, and I'm about at my wits end with TiVo.


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## slowbiscuit

KevTech said:


> Yep it is not coming back to Tivo.
> Was told this by a high up exec not a rep and don't ask me to name this person as I will not risk his/her job.


But but but, Tivo_Ted said a replacement is coming!!!

*ducking again*


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## chiguy50

MileHigh96 said:


> I use my TiVo less and less now since the loss of VOD from Comcast. In fact, if I didn't use my Tivo's DVR capabilities, I would probably sell it and get rid of the service. Not only is there no more VOD access, the apps on the TiVo are awful when compared to using the Roku.
> 
> Combine all this with the complete silence on when (if) VOD is going to return, and I'm about at my wits end with TiVo.


I am at the opposite end of the spectrum. I still love, love, love my TiVo Roamio Pro and Mini combination and will not give them up even if they become redundant with the video devices that come with my Comcast service (which is very likely in the near future).

Yes, I have long since abandoned VOD and OTT streaming on TiVo, but I did not buy a DVR for this express purpose. I recognize that Bolt owners may feel differently given how those units were marketed as one-source devices for all your viewing needs, and IMHO they never lived up to that promise.

But for my purposes, a relatively small investment (compared to TiVo) in one or more dedicated media streamers is the best bang for the buck you could ever hope for.

By the time the Xfinity on Demand (XoD) app was decommissioned on TiVo it had already become practically useless. I immediately purchased a Roku Ultra (even though I already had an Nvidia Shield TV and Amazon Fire TV 4K for streaming in addition to the apps on my Sony XBR-65Z9D TV) and am extremely happy with the upgrade using its Xfinity Stream app, which is infinitely better than XoD ever was.


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## chiguy50

slowbiscuit said:


> But but but, Tivo_Ted said a replacement is coming!!!
> 
> *ducking again*


Now putting you into the concussion protocol.


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## krkaufman

slowbiscuit said:


> But but but, Tivo_Ted said a replacement is coming!!!


No he didn't. He just said they were working on it.

In case you don't want to take the required deep dive into the thread to find Ted's comment, here it is...


TiVo_Ted said:


> TiVo and Comcast are actively working together on a plan to bring a more modern Xfinity application to TiVo customers. I can't give you any more details on that now, but stay tuned. In the meantime, there are several other applications on TiVo that may fill the gap in the interim.


... from the 1st post to the thread.


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## Beryl

chiguy50 said:


> I am at the opposite end of the spectrum. I still love, love, love my TiVo Roamio Pro and Mini combination and will not give them up even if they become redundant with the video devices that come with my Comcast service (which is very likely in the near future).


Except for premium channels, >90% of VOD comes with commercials so I rarely use it anyway. I'd rather use TiVo to record content and skip ads.

The "beta" on Roku is working fine for now so until that stops, I'm not complaining. I only wish there was an Apple TV app.


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## chiguy50

Beryl said:


> Except for premium channels, >90% of VOD comes with commercials so I rarely use it anyway. I'd rather use TiVo to record content and skip ads.
> 
> The "beta" on Roku is working fine for now so until that stops, I'm not complaining. I only wish there was an Apple TV app.


Well, and TBH, I have issues with the Beta app, which I have already aired several times on this forum. Among my quibbles are (1) the audio is crippled as it is only streaming in PCM 2.0 whereas many of the programs themselves are airing in DD 5.1, and (2) I am unable to access any of the HD channels in my lineup on the Roku app even though they are available, both for live linear TV and VOD, on the Xfinity Stream app for PC, Android, and iOS. I have investigated thoroughly and there is no remedy in my case since I do not currently have the HD Technology Fee on my account (not necessary using CableCARD as my sole Comcast-supplied digital video device).


----------



## jfalkingham

Using the Xfinity stream app on tv, having access to recordings, on-demand and live TV through one experience is a nice thing. I love out TiVo bolt and roamios but just living out of the Xfinity stream app for 2 days (Testing) we did not find ondemand commercials to be a problem and we were able to skip through the 30 seconds. Most did not have any commercials and the recorded content did not have commercials that were forced on us. 

Sent from my SM-N970U1 using Tapatalk


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## Beryl

jfalkingham said:


> Using the Xfinity stream app on tv, having access to recordings, on-demand and live TV through one experience is a nice thing. I love out TiVo bolt and roamios but just living out of the Xfinity stream app for 2 days (Testing) we did not find ondemand commercials to be a problem and we were able to skip through the 30 seconds. Most did not have any commercials and the recorded content did not have commercials that were forced on us.


The Xfinity VOD streaming app on your TV allows you to skip commercials? Which TV specifically? I'm unable to do so on my Roku and never could do it on the TiVo.


----------



## laria

Beryl said:


> The Xfinity VOD streaming app on your TV allows you to skip commercials? Which TV specifically? I'm unable to do so on my Roku and never could do it on the TiVo.


I have been able to in the past on non-broadcast XOD content on my TiVo. I want to say maybe it was AMC or USA.


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## NorthAlabama

Beryl said:


> The Xfinity VOD streaming app on your TV allows you to skip commercials? Which TV specifically? I'm unable to do so on my Roku and never could do it on the TiVo.


certain networks allow ffwd, especially over one or two weeks following the air date for newer programs.


----------



## jfalkingham

Beryl said:


> The Xfinity VOD streaming app on your TV allows you to skip commercials? Which TV specifically? I'm unable to do so on my Roku and never could do it on the TiVo.


We just bought a Samsung Q80R, installed the Xfinity stream app and these networks (so far) have allowed skipping:

ABC
NBC
Lifetime
A&E
Disney
Disney Jr
Nickelodeon
Bravo
CBS

They all (except Disney Jr) had about a 30 sec commercial to open then a break midpoint, but we were able to just navigate to FF and jump ahead 30 sec.

The recorded content is crazy, I did have an Xfinity x1 at one point and got rid of it like a year ago. All my "one pass" were still live and recording but to the cloud. We could gain access to all of them via the app on the TV and it's legit recorded content, not the ondemand replacement. 4,037 recordings haha










Sent from my SM-N970U1 using Tapatalk


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## pldoolittle

MileHigh96 said:


> I use my TiVo less and less now since the loss of VOD from Comcast. In fact, if I didn't use my Tivo's DVR capabilities, I would probably sell it and get rid of the service. Not only is there no more VOD access, the apps on the TiVo are awful when compared to using the Roku.
> 
> Combine all this with the complete silence on when (if) VOD is going to return, and I'm about at my wits end with TiVo.


This.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

Beryl said:


> The Xfinity VOD streaming app on your TV allows you to skip commercials? Which TV specifically? I'm unable to do so on my Roku and never could do it on the TiVo.


I was able to do it on my TiVo for certain channels but over time that list of channels shrank. Some folks also had tricks they used by spamming buttons on the remote or something similar but those never worked for me.


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## slowbiscuit

krkaufman said:


> No he didn't. He just said they were working on it.


Um, ok I get it. Working on a plan for a replacement doesn't mean that there's going to be a replacement. 

(BTW they've been 'working on a plan' for IPTV for almost 5 years now, which is the point of the sarc remarks I've been making about VOD ever coming back):

_Longer term, we want to transition with the cable industry to a more modern, IP-based cardless security solution. As part of our agreement, Comcast has agreed to work with TiVo on a two-way non-CableCARD security solution that will enable retail devices to access the full Comcast lineup of linear and VOD programming, whether QAM- or IP-delivered.

Future of CableCARD - TiVo Blog (blog.tivo.com/2015/01/future-of-cablecard/)_


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## kokishin

I have the Xfinity Stream app on my Samsung S9+. 

When I try to cast it to my FTV Stick to watch on my TV, the Xfinity Stream app won't allow it.

When I connect a USB C to HDMI adapter between my phone and my HT system (IOW hardwired) to watch on my TV, the Xfinity app won't allow it.

Comcast is so f'ing annoying in so many ways. 

I KNOW I can buy a Roku but knowing Comcast, they'll start charging for the app. For me, the app just ain't worth paying for.


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## krkaufman

slowbiscuit said:


> Um, ok I get it. Working on a plan for a replacement doesn't mean that there's going to be a replacement.
> 
> (BTW they've been 'working on a plan' for IPTV for almost 5 years now, which is the point of the sarc remarks I've been making about VOD ever coming back):
> 
> _Longer term, we want to transition with the cable industry to a more modern, IP-based cardless security solution. As part of our agreement, Comcast has agreed to work with TiVo on a two-way non-CableCARD security solution that will enable retail devices to access the full Comcast lineup of linear and VOD programming, whether QAM- or IP-delivered.
> 
> Future of CableCARD - TiVo Blog (blog.tivo.com/2015/01/future-of-cablecard/)_


Fine, but not everyone seeing that post may have been fortunate enough to have experienced your comedy stylings, so a simple correction to your declarative seemed appropriate. I'll assume that we'll see that differently.


----------



## mazman

kokishin said:


> I have the Xfinity Stream app on my Samsung S9+.
> 
> When I try to cast it to my FTV Stick to watch on my TV, the Xfinity Stream app won't allow it.
> 
> When I connect a USB C to HDMI adapter between my phone and my HT system (IOW hardwired) to watch on my TV, the Xfinity app won't allow it.
> 
> Comcast is so f'ing annoying in so many ways.
> 
> I KNOW I can buy a Roku but knowing Comcast, they'll start charging for the app. For me, the app just ain't worth paying for.


Not as convenient, but you can cast Xfinity Stream from a laptop.

And there's no doubt that Comcast will eventually charge for running Stream on a Roku.

What's infuriating is that we've heard NOTHING from TiVo regarding timing of replacing VOD. Very poor customer service from TiVo.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## KevTech

mazman said:


> What's infuriating is that we've heard NOTHING from TiVo regarding timing of replacing VOD.


It is up to Comcast to provide another app.
If Comcast does not want to provide one then Tivo can do nothing about it.


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## mazman

KevTech said:


> It is up to Comcast to provide another app.
> If Comcast does not want to provide one then Tivo can do nothing about it.


If that's the case, TiVo should let us know.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## morac

Supporting VOD on Tivo may be on Comcast’s list of things to do, but if it is, it has to be near the bottom. I would expect an app to be released for much more popular devices (like Apple TV) before one comes out for Tivo.


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## wmcbrine

mazman said:


> And there's no doubt that Comcast will eventually charge for running Stream on a Roku.


There's doubt -- I doubt it.


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## kokishin

mazman said:


> Not as convenient, but you can cast Xfinity Stream from a laptop.
> 
> And there's no doubt that Comcast will eventually charge for running Stream on a Roku.
> 
> What's infuriating is that we've heard NOTHING from TiVo regarding timing of replacing VOD. Very poor customer service from TiVo.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I don't have a laptop but I have a Win 10 Pro desktop (upgraded from Win 7 Pro) that doesn't support Miracast.

Are you casting Xfinity Stream using Miracast?


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## mazman

kokishin said:


> I don't have a laptop but I have a Win 10 Pro desktop (upgraded from Win 7 Pro) that doesn't support Miracast.
> 
> Are you casting Xfinity Stream using Miracast?


No, you can cast from either a laptop or desktop from a Google Chrome tab.


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## kokishin

mazman said:


> No, you can cast from either a laptop or desktop from a Google Chrome tab.


... if you have a Chromecast device connected to your HT or TV.

I traded in my old Chromecast device to Amazon for a FTV Stick.


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## slowbiscuit

KevTech said:


> It is up to Comcast to provide another app.
> If Comcast does not want to provide one then Tivo can do nothing about it.


No, the issue is on both sides - see the blog I linked above? Tivo had an agreement with Comcast to work together on an IPTV solution. Not just Comcast.


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## chiguy50

wmcbrine said:


> There's doubt -- I doubt it.


I shared your point of view on this initially, but I've now come around to believing that they are likely to start assessing an Additional Digital Outlet (ADO) or similar fee at some point after the Beta app is completed so as to match the per-STB fee (currently $5.00). After all, the Roku app provides similar access to content as the STB. Comcast has explicitly left this option open from the outset of deploying the Xfinity Stream App for Partner Devices, as shown below:


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## NashGuy

mazman said:


> And there's no doubt that Comcast will eventually charge for running Stream on a Roku.





wmcbrine said:


> There's doubt -- I doubt it.


I also tend to doubt that Comcast will start charging for use of their Xfinity Stream app on Roku, smart TVs, etc. And the reason I doubt it is because of competitive pressures. In most Comcast markets, their direct competitor for broadband and TV service is AT&T. By the end of this year, we should see AT&T launch a new TV service called AT&T TV nationwide that will replace their existing Uverse TV service. It has already soft-launched in a few pilot markets. The way they're pricing it is this: the base price for your channel package automatically allows simultaneous viewing on any 3 screens of your choice. You can view using the customized Android TV streaming box they give you and/or view on the AT&T TV app for Apple TV, Roku, Fire TV, iOS, or Android. One streaming box comes with the service, yours to keep at no additional charge. If you want extra boxes, you have to buy them. You can use the app on your own devices at no additional charge.

AT&T TV will be available over any internet connection but it's definitely going to be the service that they push as a bundle with their own AT&T broadband service (just as Comcast pushes Xfinity TV with Xfinity broadband). So on their new flagship cable TV service, AT&T is giving up on the old model of trying to charge households extra money to watch on additional screens. (Well, perhaps they'll offer the option to pay more to watch on a 4th/5th/6th simultaneous screen at once but relatively few households would need that option.) In this way, AT&T TV is essentially following in the footsteps of YouTube TV (3 simultaneous streams), Hulu Live (2 simultaneous streams, unlimited streams cost extra), and PS Vue (5 simultaneous streams).

In light of all that, it's hard for me to see how Comcast gets away with charging folks extra money to access Xfinity TV using their app on hardware that the customer owns. None of their competitors, not even their main competitor AT&T, will be doing that. And after giving their customers free access to the Stream app on Roku for a couple years now, to suddenly start charging for it would make matters even worse. From a marketing perspective, I'd say it would be a much better move for Comcast to simply bump up the monthly price of their TV packages by $2-3 a month as opposed to slapping on, say, a $2.50/mo charge per Roku that uses the Stream app.


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## mazman

NashGuy said:


> I also tend to doubt that Comcast will start charging for use of their Xfinity Stream app on Roku, smart TVs, etc. And the reason I doubt it is because of competitive pressures. In most Comcast markets, their direct competitor for broadband and TV service is AT&T. By the end of this year, we should see AT&T launch a new TV service called AT&T TV nationwide that will replace their existing Uverse TV service. It has already soft-launched in a few pilot markets. The way they're pricing it is this: the base price for your channel package automatically allows simultaneous viewing on any 3 screens of your choice. You can view using the customized Android TV streaming box they give you and/or view on the AT&T TV app for Apple TV, Roku, Fire TV, iOS, or Android. One streaming box comes with the service, yours to keep at no additional charge. If you want extra boxes, you have to buy them. You can use the app on your own devices at no additional charge.
> 
> AT&T TV will be available over any internet connection but it's definitely going to be the service that they push as a bundle with their own AT&T broadband service (just as Comcast pushes Xfinity TV with Xfinity broadband). So on their new flagship cable TV service, AT&T is giving up on the old model of trying to charge households extra money to watch on additional screens. (Well, perhaps they'll offer the option to pay more to watch on a 4th/5th/6th simultaneous screen at once but relatively few households would need that option.) In this way, AT&T TV is essentially following in the footsteps of YouTube TV (3 simultaneous streams), Hulu Live (2 simultaneous streams, unlimited streams cost extra), and PS Vue (5 simultaneous streams).
> 
> In light of all that, it's hard for me to see how Comcast gets away with charging folks extra money to access Xfinity TV using their app on hardware that the customer owns. None of their competitors, not even their main competitor AT&T, will be doing that. And after giving their customers free access to the Stream app on Roku for a couple years now, to suddenly start charging for it would make matters even worse. From a marketing perspective, I'd say it would be a much better move for Comcast to simply bump up the monthly price of their TV packages by $2-3 a month as opposed to slapping on, say, a $2.50/mo charge per Roku that uses the Stream app.


You make a convincing argument and I hope you're right. FWIW, Comcast says the app is free now but MAY change in the future.

Xfinity Stream App on Xfinity TV Partner Devices FAQs - Xfinity

It's been my experience that Comcast will charge for whatever they can plus add BS charges for Regional Sports, local channels, etc. Hopefully some competition will keep them somewhat in line.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## MileHigh96

mazman said:


> You make a convincing argument and I hope you're right. FWIW, Comcast says the app is free now but MAY change in the future.
> 
> Xfinity Stream App on Xfinity TV Partner Devices FAQs - Xfinity
> 
> It's been my experience that Comcast will charge for whatever they can plus add BS charges for Regional Sports, local channels, etc. Hopefully some competition will keep them somewhat in line.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


It's not just Comcast that charges a Regional Sports fee, it's on Dish and DirecTV as well. It varies by zip code as to the amount of the extra fee, if there even is a charge as some zip codes don't experience that fee.


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## morac

I would argue in most areas that Comcast has no competition. That’s how they get away with implementing Internet data caps everywhere except the Northeast, where there is competition. I’m actually lucky since there is no competition in my town, but my service area includes towns that have FIOS so there are no data caps. 

Speaking of the caps, that’s also why Comcast won’t really have competition from streaming TV services since they’ll make money either way.


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## MileHigh96

morac said:


> I would argue in most areas that Comcast has no competition. That's how they get away with implementing Internet data caps everywhere except the Northeast, where there is competition. I'm actually lucky since there is no competition in my town, but my service area includes towns that have FIOS so there are no data caps.
> 
> Speaking of the caps, that's also why Comcast won't really have competition from streaming TV services since they'll make money either way.


I live in Denver and I have Comcast and no data cap on their gig internet speed.


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## chiguy50

MileHigh96 said:


> I live in Denver and I have Comcast and no data cap on their gig internet speed.


Even in areas where the data cap is routinely imposed (including here in Atlanta), Comcast will sometimes remove it for certain plans depending on the nature of the deal.


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## chiguy50

NashGuy said:


> In light of all that, it's hard for me to see how Comcast gets away with charging folks extra money to access Xfinity TV using their app on hardware that the customer owns. None of their competitors, not even their main competitor AT&T, will be doing that. And after giving their customers free access to the Stream app on Roku for a couple years now, to suddenly start charging for it would make matters even worse. From a marketing perspective, I'd say it would be a much better move for Comcast to simply bump up the monthly price of their TV packages by $2-3 a month as opposed to slapping on, say, a $2.50/mo charge per Roku that uses the Stream app.


Again, I also felt that way up until recently, but am now more skeptical. It seems logical and consistent to say that accessing the service on your TV via the Roku app is no different from using a STB or other digital device and thus subject to the same uniform $5.00 fee for each additional box. I am guessing that it was not a technical but rather a revenue-producing factor behind the restriction that prevents you from casting the Xfinity Stream app from a mobile device.

But, as you say, competition may well influence Comcast's decision-making at some point along the way.


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## chiguy50

NashGuy said:


> By the end of this year, we should see AT&T launch a new TV service called AT&T TV nationwide that will replace their existing Uverse TV service. It has already soft-launched in a few pilot markets.


Are you aware at this stage of any reliable sources of information regarding presumed pricing and package contents?

Specifically, will HBO (or HBO Max) be included for free or only as a limited-term free promotion as AT&T is doing now?


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## NashGuy

mazman said:


> It's been my experience that Comcast will charge for whatever they can plus add BS charges for Regional Sports, local channels, etc. Hopefully some competition will keep them somewhat in line.


You're right about Comcast and their BS charges. Of course, it's not just Comcast, that's been the way the whole cable TV industry has worked for years now. And, generally speaking, I say that the best predictor of anyone's future behavior is their past behavior. So why not expect Comcast to just keep on with all those BS fees?

Well, because, as I say, the game is changing. Comcast knows that more and more folks are finding out about (and some are switching to) services like YouTube TV and Hulu Live. And when AT&T TV launches nationwide (as the immediate replacement for Uverse TV and the gradual replacement for DirecTV satellite), that will make an even bigger splash given that AT&T is the largest purveyor of cable TV in the nation (just slightly more total subs than Comcast). And those streaming cable TV services are structured in a way to appeal to consumers who are tired of cable industry BS. None of them charge separate fees for broadcast channels or regional sports networks. All of them give you simultaneous viewing on more than one screen at no additional charge. They don't charge box rental fees or make you pay access fees to use their service on your own devices. Almost all of them include some level of cloud DVR service at no additional charge (although you may choose to pay more to expand or improve the DVR). They don't tack on extra fees for HD or 4K HDR. They basically say "Here's how much your channel package costs and, yes, that's the actual amount you pay each month (plus government-imposed sales tax)."

I'm not saying that Comcast will immediately switch to more transparent, simple, consumer-friendly pricing by doing away with all those tack-on fees. But I think that they'll have to at least move _somewhat_ in that direction. As I say, the game is changing, and consumers have more choices now for cable TV than ever before.


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## NashGuy

chiguy50 said:


> Are you aware at this stage of any reliable sources of information regarding presumed pricing and package contents?
> 
> Specifically, will HBO (or HBO Max) be included for free or only as a limited-term free promotion as AT&T is doing now?


No, I've seen no leaks on what the packages and pricing will be for AT&T TV. So far in the pilot cities, AT&T TV is just offering the existing DirecTV channel packages (Entertainment, Xtra, etc.), with about the same pricing, the same 2-year contract, and the same 3 free months of HBO to start. I don't think that's what it will look like when it launches nationwide, though.

I'm still sticking with my speculation that AT&T will follow through with multiple past comments from its CEO to "thin out" the content bundles they offer to bring down the price curve. I believe that all these channel carriage negotiations that AT&T has done this year and last year (with Viacom, A+E, CBS, Sinclair, Disney, Nexstar, etc.) have been to achieve two things: hold down the prices AT&T pays to carry the channels and allow AT&T to shuffle channels around into skinnier and more flexible bundles. I think that the Plus and Max channel packages that they debuted in DirecTV Now (now branded as AT&T TV Now) back in the spring are the beginnings of where this is all going. Both of those packages, by the way, non-optionally include HBO. As currently constructed, they have a pretty good variety of channels, except they don't contain any at all from Discovery, A+E, or AMC Networks. I suspect that those will get added and then Plus and Max, and probably a cheaper first-level "Starter" or "Skinny" package (basically the same stuff currently in AT&T Watch TV), will become the only options available to new subscribers across all their services: AT&T TV, AT&T TV Now, and DirecTV (satellite).

And instead of simply including HBO, as Plus and Max currently do, you have to believe that AT&T is going to switch that to their shiny new HBO Max, which includes a broader range of content that WarnerMedia owns. Just as Hulu doesn't let you subscribe to Hulu with Live TV without their base on-demand Hulu service, and just as Xfinity TV won't let you subscribe without also getting their Peacock on-demand service, I don't think it will be possible to get a cable channel service from AT&T without also getting their core HBO Max on-demand service. Because HBO Max will be their foundation and their future. "Getting other companies' content, in the form of their cable channels, is optional; but taking our own content, in the form of HBO Max, is non-negotiable. You take video from us, you're taking HBO Max." I know this seems strange for folks who have always thought of HBO as an optional premium add-on to the basic cable bundle. But as HBO morphs into HBO Max, they're flipping the script. It's not the icing on the cake. It's the cake.

Anyhoo, AT&T's quarterly earnings call is on 10/28 and their big reveal of HBO Max is on 10/29. I expect that we'll hear at least some new info on AT&T TV during one or both of those events. (In fact, they may state that HBO Max will launch in beta form this year, exclusively available to those who get it as part of their cable TV package from AT&T TV, AT&T TV Now, and DirecTV, before HBO Max becomes widely available as a final-release, standalone product in spring 2020.)


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## chiguy50

NashGuy said:


> No, I've seen no leaks on what the packages and pricing will be for AT&T TV. So far in the pilot cities, AT&T TV is just offering the existing DirecTV channel packages (Entertainment, Xtra, etc.), with about the same pricing, the same 2-year contract, and the same 3 free months of HBO to start. I don't think that's what it will look like when it launches nationwide, though.


Okay, then I guess I haven't missed anything noteworthy in open-source circulation.



NashGuy said:


> Just as Hulu doesn't let you subscribe to Hulu with Live TV without their base on-demand Hulu service, and *just as Xfinity TV won't let you subscribe without also getting their Peacock on-demand service*, I don't think it will be possible to get a cable channel service from AT&T without also getting their core HBO Max on-demand service. Because HBO Max will be their foundation and their future.


Speaking of the yet-to-be-launched Peacock, I wonder whether Comcast will fold their Streampix add-on pack into it. Right now, Streampix is either a $5.00 option or is part of the (Extra/Preferred) channel package.


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## NashGuy

chiguy50 said:


> Speaking of the yet-to-be-launched Peacock, I wonder whether Comcast will fold their Streampix add-on pack into it. Right now, Streampix is either a $5.00 option or is part of the (Extra/Preferred) channel package.


Yeah, I've been saying for months now that Streampix will quietly die when Peacock launches, with all its content just folded into Peacock. (FWIW, I've predicted the same scenario will be true for Cinemax and HBO Max.)

Heck, the same might be true for Hitz (their new on-demand movie service that, frankly, feels like a total after-thought, with zero marketing effort put into it. Seriously, the link that I embedded is the closest thing to a webpage that exists for it. They barely even bothered to design a logo for it.) We know that Peacock is going to offer a movie library. Hard to see how it doesn't include the same (mostly NBCU-owned) stuff that's already offered in Hitz.


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## pldoolittle

chiguy50 said:


> Even in areas where the data cap is routinely imposed (including here in Atlanta), Comcast will sometimes remove it for certain plans depending on the nature of the deal.


I believe I have a 1GB cap that is not enforced. I have been told by non-reliable sources that if I drop TV, it will be enforced.


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## chiguy50

pldoolittle said:


> I believe I have a 1GB cap that is not enforced. I have been told by non-reliable sources that if I drop TV, it will be enforced.


I know that it's just semantics, but either there is a data cap on your service or there is none. It should be easy enough to verify by checking your on-line account (see illustration below) or talking to a CS rep. But you might just have one of those plans I mentioned that is not subject to the cap.

Of course, even where Comcast imposes a data cap (typically 1TB), you are allowed to exceed it twice in a 12-month period before incurring penalties.


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## philt56

I have xfinity in Chicago suburbs with tivo and cablecard. Since ondemand no longer works on tivo, I was thinking of getting a Roku to support that. I don’t use it much, mainly to watch a show that I didn’t record. 

so I see the xfinity app is a beta and ir says when the beta trial is over then I would be charged for the Roku as an extra device? So another $10/ month? 

is that correct? I tried to get a Flex from Comcast and they refused since it is offered only to Internet only customers. The only thing they said I could get was another dvr.

has anyone else confirmed the Roku would be charged as another device? Any idea when the beta trial is over?


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## CommunityMember

philt56 said:


> so I see the xfinity app is a beta and ir says when the beta trial is over then I would be charged for the Roku as an extra device? So another $10/ month? is that correct? has anyone else confirmed the Roku would be charged as another device?


That was confirmed by a Comcast rep as being essentially correct when the Roku (and Samsung TV) apps were released as Beta. Every device connected to a TV would be charged the same (whether it was a Comcast STB, or a Roku, or a ....).


> Any idea when the beta trial is over?


The original beta was released, at this point, over three years ago. There has been no further statement from Comcast regarding their plans or schedules. The beta might end tomorrow, or closer to never. And whether the service on the Roku will continue at all, and at what price, along with a release on the other streaming platforms (which are rumored to have existed in-house for quite some time) is unknown. Lots has changed in the streaming marketplace over the duration of this beta, including the flex box, and the peacock app that is available on many platforms (but not the Roku at this point in time).

It should be noted that in many markets Comcast has changed (or is in the process of changing) their pricing for new customers (and existing customers that re-up for another term agreement) in ways that would appear to move them in a direction of having more consistent pricing across presentation platforms. It is always worth looking at the new offerings to make sure you are selecting the best option for your requirements.


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## pdhenry

Last time I checked the disclaimer said they *may* (as in might) charge a fee. It's been, what, three years since the beta came out?


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## chiguy50

philt56 said:


> I have xfinity in Chicago suburbs with tivo and cablecard. Since ondemand no longer works on tivo, I was thinking of getting a Roku to support that. I don't use it much, mainly to watch a show that I didn't record.
> 
> so I see the xfinity app is a beta and ir says when the beta trial is over then I would be charged for the Roku as an extra device? So another $10/ month?
> 
> is that correct? I tried to get a Flex from Comcast and they refused since it is offered only to Internet only customers. The only thing they said I could get was another dvr.
> 
> has anyone else confirmed the Roku would be charged as another device? Any idea when the beta trial is over?


Adding to what others have posted:

1) At some undefined point in time, the Xfinity Stream Beta app may or may not entail a charge if you are accessing it on an additional digital device not currently carried in your account; from the very beginning, Comcast has expressly left this option open as a proviso for the free app service. However, under the present pricing structure, the fee would almost certainly be the same $5.00 they are charging for any of the rental STB's in their inventory.

2) Although you do not qualify for the free Flex service reserved for internet-only customers, you do have the option of renting the identical Xi6 STB from them for $5.00 p.m.; but it would make more sense in terms of the financial outlay to purchase a Roku. The Xi6 is a headless client box, not a DVR (although it does come with 20 hours of cloud storage, with increased storage available for an additional fee). The DVR's containing a HDD rent for $10 p.m. if not included in a package deal.


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## mattack

I think you can also use the Xfinity iOS app for example.


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## hershey4

It doesn't seem fair that they could charge for accessing VOD on a separate device. That was not our choice. It was mandated by their (combined?) failure to keep it available via Tivo. We signed up for this arrangement which includes (included) VOD. But, of course, who ever said life was fair.


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## chiguy50

hershey4 said:


> It doesn't seem fair that they could charge for accessing VOD on a separate device. That was not our choice. It was mandated by their (combined?) failure to keep it available via Tivo. We signed up for this arrangement which includes (included) VOD. But, of course, who ever said life was fair.


Well, to be fair (in keeping with your term of reference), Comcast would not be assessing a charge for use of the VOD app but rather for the additional digital outlet (or digital device) in service on your account. If you access Xfinity Stream on the web portal or via the mobile app there is no fee involved.


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