# Guess what I've just seen?



## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

I have just spent the day in London at VMHQ in Gt Portland Street as part of their first Sofa event.

It was an awesome day spent talking with reps from all four of their quad-play services. There's some fantastic stuff on the way; not the least of which is the new VM Tivo-powered DVR.

They didn't have one there but they did show a short "video demo" of the thing. All I can say is that the tag-line they used is precisely correct - _It''ll Blow You Away_

It's just-about the sexiest piece of kit you've ever seen. It is nothing like either of the current V+ boxes. It's all curved and sexy! It fact, it could really be a close relation of the broadband modem used for the 50MB service.

As for the software. Well, it's basically a US Series 4.

I nearly cried when I saw the presentation!

Still no name for it, but I suggested either VTivo or Vivo and they'd already thought of the latter 

Soft roll-out by year's-end with proper launch early next year.


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## bob808 (Jan 7, 2005)

Carl - did they say if this was just for cable services, or if it would be an IPTV solution for people out of a cabled VM area (or any other possibilities for us poor non cabled folks)


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

No, sorry. They didn't mention that and I forgot to ask.

A couple more things I just remembered.

Web access to the unit _will_ happen; just not at launch. Also, I seem to recall that the unit will be capable of storing up to around 400 hours of SD programming. Obviously, HD will be substantially less but still more than currently; around 120 hours I think.


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## childe (Jan 22, 2001)

Carl, thanks for the update. This is my first visit to this site for many months. Did they give any news on how the new Tivo service will be packaged and what it will cost? Will we own the box or rent it? If we do own the box, will there be any equivalent to the Tivo lifetime sub?

Whilst I am excited about the prospect of Tivo's return, I am slightly ambivalent as just this week I have gone over to the dark side and signed up with Sky. The deal they offered (compared to my deal with Virgin) was just too good to resist, and I could not stand the V+ box any longer. So I am now tied to Sky for 12m. My strategy is that by next October Virgin may be offering some good deals to entice Sky customers onto their service, and the new Tivo box will have had all its bugs ironed out. Either way, if this new box is as good as I hope it will be, I will be back!

In the meantime my Tivo series 1 just keeps on going (10 years this month!) - easily the best thing I have ever bought.:up::up::up:


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

cwaring said:


> Also, I seem to recall that the unit will be capable of storing up to around 400 hours of SD programming. Obviously, HD will be substantially less but still more than currently; around 120 hours I think.


If they did on-demand properly, there would be no need for any local storage, or any tuners (maybe just a HDD as a cache). Especially as cable has a permanent two way link.
"Recordings" would just be hotlinks into on-demand shows.

Unfortunately this utopian vision is never going to happen while the broadcasters have different / extra rights & royalties for on demand content vs broadcast content. Even though they are effectively the same.

That said, roll on new TiVo


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

childe said:


> Carl, thanks for the update.


No problem. Happy to do so.



> Did they give any news...


I have told you all I - and they, for that matter, know for certain. The cost was discussed and there were some on either side of the "upfront or monthly" debate.


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## bobg (Nov 12, 2000)

Thanks for the update Carl - it would make a lovely Christmas present for me.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

bobg said:


> Thanks for the update Carl - it would make a lovely Christmas present for me.


Where I live I could use one as a door stop but that is about all 

Automan.


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## Furball (Dec 6, 2001)

Interesting news, popped in here to see what was going on after reading this....

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2369664,00.asp



> Virgin and TiVo will co-develop Virgin's next-generation media platform, a development strategy that TiVo pioneered with DirecTV, which signed an agreement more than two years ago to co-develop what some have called a "DirecTiVo".
> 
> Unfortunately, since then, no products have emerged from the partnership. TiVo said earlier this year that the DirecTiVo would ship in 2010. But when asked about the status of the agreement, Miller said that the DirecTiVo would ship "early next year".


Fur


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

mikerr said:


> If they did on-demand properly...


Sorry. It's been a few hours and I'm still confused by this statement  <- see

Define "properly" 'cos as far as I know they _are_ doing it properly; just not every programme on every channel.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Err, I'm sure I've waffled on about this before on here...

Doing on demand "properly" to me would be to blur the line between recorded and on demand, for easier access.

E.g. Your list of recorded shows is virtual. You can set recordings and season passes in the normal way, but nothing is actually stored on your own HDD - when you press play, it's streamed from on demand.

So your now-playing list is really just a list of favourites into the on demand system.
But it's presented to the user as a PVR

Advantages:
1. No recording clashes. Ever. 
"Infinite tuners"
2. Always get whole programmes, no padding etc needed 
3. No storage space worries or maintenance.
"Infinite storage"
4. Online content merged in the same list (youtube "episodes", PPV) 
5. All those dumb settop boxes could become PVRs  - they only need to store lists of programmes, a few MB.

Disadvantages:
1. Would need on demand rights for all broadcast content 
2. If a show is no longer on demand, its not accessible to the user,
unlike recording to HDD where it could be stored indefinitely.
3. heavier strain on their on demand system.

I don't see many downsides to this approach; probably simpler to implement than a conventional PVR, and it gives plenty of user convenience and marketing PR with "infinite tuners and infinite recording hours".

In particular it's something that sky couldn't really match as they are stuck with a one-way satellite delivery system.

Will the above happen ? Not for a few years IMO 
after all - look how long we've waited for modern PVRs to catch up with a ten year old TiVo


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

mikerr said:


> Will the above happen ? Not for a few years IMO


I think we'll be lucky if that scenario _ eve_ happens. Yes, it would be nice, but just think of the required storage capacity to record possible thing that _ million_ of people want to watch. (Yes, I know not every programme will be unique, but that's not the point.)



> after all - look how long we've waited for modern PVRs to catch up with a ten year old TiVo


There is that


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

If it was not for those evil narrow minded folks at Sky UK we could all have a gadget that could do this and more (more channels via sat).

Instead all they will let you use to view/manage their content is a crappy Sky+ box with a UI which is even older than our Tivo boxes.

Automan.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Automan said:


> ...a crappy Sky+ box with a UI which is even older than our Tivo boxes.


Didn't the Tivo come first?  I always thought so.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

Sky+ came in Sept 2001 - so a year after the UK launch of TiVo.

But the UI is identical to the old Sky Digital boxes - so the Sky+ UI is really Oct 98.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

ozsat said:


> Sky+ came in Sept 2001 - so a year after the UK launch of TiVo.
> 
> But the UI is identical to the old Sky Digital boxes - so the Sky+ UI is really Oct 98.


Yes I meant the basic Sky box user interface.

Sky then in 2001 just bodged on the ability to record a program.

Their EPG does not really give you any more information about a program than when it was first released.

Not even the full date and time a recording was made.

Automan.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Fair enough.


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## Trinitron (Jan 20, 2003)

mikerr said:


> Doing on demand "properly" to me would be to blur the line between recorded and on demand, for easier access.
> 
> E.g. Your list of recorded shows is virtual. You can set recordings and season passes in the normal way, but nothing is actually stored on your own HDD - when you press play, it's streamed from on demand.
> 
> ...


That sounds a bit like the proposals for the YouView box from Project Canvas. One of their aims is to let people go backwards in the EPG and view 'missed' programmes on demand.



ozsat said:


> Sky+ came in Sept 2001 - so a year after the UK launch of TiVo.
> 
> But the UI is identical to the old Sky Digital boxes - so the Sky+ UI is really Oct 98.


The HD software is more recent. It's unlikely that Sky+ will ever be updated as Sky want to push everyone on to Sky+HD, especially with their Anytime+ service due to be launched by the end of the year. In that respect, no different to US TiVo only making their latest software available on newer STBs.


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## childe (Jan 22, 2001)

Carl

A couple more questions. You say the box you saw is basically a US series 4 Tivo. Does this mean it will have all the unique Tivo features we are used to (Wishlists, Suggestions, 3 week EPG) plus whatever new features have been added since the series 1?

Also, do you know how many tuners it has? The V+ has 3 which allow simultaneous recording of 2 channels whilst watching a 3rd (not that I ever watch live TV of course). Will this box be the same?

Thanks


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## royfox (Apr 5, 2004)

cwaring said:


> Still no name for it, but I suggested either VTivo or Vivo and they'd already thought of the latter


Vivo... I hope I get first dabs on the beta units if they go ahead with this as it was me that suggested the Vivo name.. lol...

Actually Carl, it's good news that this project is moving forward.. How do I get onto the "soft release" list? any department I can contact etc...
Roy


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

childe said:


> You say the box you saw is basically a US series 4 Tivo. Does this mean it will have all the unique Tivo features we are used to (Wishlists, Suggestions, 3 week EPG) plus whatever new features have been added since the series 1?


As far as I could tell, yes. Of course, things like 'search' will now work across all three platforms too; linear (epg), on demand and on-line.



> Also, do you know how many tuners it has? The V+ has 3 which allow simultaneous recording of 2 channels whilst watching a 3rd (not that I ever watch live TV of course). Will this box be the same?


Yes.



> Thanks


You're welcome.



royfox said:


> How do I get onto the "soft release" list? any department I can contact etc...


Your guess is as good as mine I'm afraid Roy! I couldn't even get myself on it at the event.


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## beara (Aug 23, 2002)

I currently have 2 V+ boxes - if these were both TiVos would they be able to see each other's recordings? I seem to recall that this was a function of later TiVos than ours


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## deshepherd (Nov 30, 2000)

Excellent news ... I'd had a nagging concern from so of the comments VM had made about adding "TiVo technology" to the existing Vboxes that to them "TiVo" might just mean a better search menu.

From what you describe I'll be on the phone to VM as soon as they annouce its available (assuming they don't do anything very stupid with the pricing)!


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

As I mentioned, they did ask us about possible pricing. There was a split between "one-off" and "monthly". No idea which will happen.


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## deshepherd (Nov 30, 2000)

cwaring said:


> As I mentioned, they did ask us about possible pricing. There was a split between "one-off" and "monthly". No idea which will happen.


I'd assume both ... there'll be some form of "installation" fee plus some incremental cost per month ... however these will probably be set much higher than necessary so that they arrange "special offers" to make you think your getting a good deal!


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Hmm I understood it was to effectively replace the current V+ PVR boxes,
and those are currently &#163;50 install, &#163;5/month (or free on full channel package)

I suppose they could be releasing it as a "premium" box at first, 
maybe with a 500GB or 1TB drive vs the current V+ 160GB


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## childe (Jan 22, 2001)

Carl - maybe getting a bit too detailed at this early stage, but did you notice if when fast forwarding the new box shows the same short rewind when the fast forward is stopped, just like our Tivos do? I did not realise how much I appreciated that feature until I got my V+ box - its very annoying having to rewind manually after overshooting when skipping commercials. Thanks

PS - and how quick was the interface. I find the V+ to be frustratingly slow.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

mikerr said:


> Hmm I understood it was to effectively replace the current V+ PVR boxes..


Yes; I think that is the case. However, I don't know if they will be automatically replacing all the current V+ boxes as a matter of course. Probably only on request and on receipt of the required payment, possibly new contract, etc.

Just to remind you that all of this is purely my speculation.



> I suppose they could be releasing it as a "premium" box at first..


I don't believe so.


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## deshepherd (Nov 30, 2000)

cwaring said:


> Yes; I think that is the case. However, I don't know if they will be automatically replacing all the current V+ boxes as a matter of course. Probably only on request and on receipt of the required payment, possibly new contract, etc.


Yes .... I gather the VHD-box is now the "standard" VM box now but there's been no sign of them coming to replace my several years old SciAtlanta V-box. Also, when I looked into V+ boxes last year which was around the time that they were switching from SciAtlanta to Samsung boxes and there was lots of people asking if they'd be able to swap their existing SA box for a Samsung and the definite line from VM was no (and even for people just signing up the line was you got which ever version was in the engineers van)

Actually, thinking of the VHD box may give an indication of what they could do ... as just said that is now, I think, the standard box for new subscribers - but they don't get the HD features unless they pay the £50 "HD activation fee". So, perhaps there might be a mechanism where the TiVo features are not available until an "activation fee" has been paid.



> Just to remind you that all of this is purely my speculation.


and on my part as well!


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Not sure if this applies to here in the UK or not, but a DTT Tivo is, of course, perfectly possible.
http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2010/09/07/tivo-demonstration-behind-walled-garden/

So don't lose hope all those in non-VM-cable areas


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