# 6.3 Changes / Features / Performance



## JaserLet

For those of you who are now running 6.3, what differences have you noted? Are there any new options or features in the menus? How does performance compare to that of 6.2 on a regular Series2 DTivo?


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## sluciani

Good idea for a thread.

One of my 3 HR10's just updated.

I noticed that none of my settings changed (dolby digital, screen aspect, sound effects volume, etc.)

As noted elsewhere, there's now a dynamic range control for analog audio.

Of course, folders in the Now Playing list. Unfortunately, the 6.2 "thumbs up, thumbs down, thumbs up, 7,8" backdoor to enable program info display at the top of the now playing list doesn't seem to work with 6.3, at least the way I tried.

An improved channel's you received list, IMO. It now lists the full name of the channel at the top of the screen, instead of just the abbreviation. Noticed lots of satellite test channels I didn't know about in the 400 range, btw.

Haven't been able to check timings for setting up recordings and Season's Passes yet because it's "acquiring data" from the satellite. I fully expect the HR-10 to be as fast as my HDVR2's with 6.2, however. Hope I'm right!

Major disappointments:

No native passthrough option.

No CC shortcut.

I'm really hopeful someone will discover a backdoor code for either one of these.

/steve


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## sluciani

Just checked the time it takes to set up a recording. Seems to be much faster to create a new Season's Pass... comparable to 6.2 on my HDVR2.

Re-arranging Season's Pass priority doesn't seem to be dramatically faster, however. I have about 45 in my list, though, with 40 or so of them active.

/steve


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## vtfan99

What about the speed of the guide...with regards to simply displaying the grid with all the data?


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## ebonovic

Just an FYI... speed is always going to be faster right after a restart.

6.3 *IS* going to provide better performance in a long run, but keep in mind, that it will slow down a "bit" in a few days/weeks


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## sluciani

vtfan99 said:


> What about the speed of the guide...with regards to simply displaying the grid with all the data?


Seems very quick, though I did not notice that it was slow before. I don't normally use the D* horizontal grid. I prefer the Tivo "list" view.

I just tried the D* grid and it seemed fine, though.

/steve


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## kbohip

The strange thing is that lately, my R-10 running 6.1 feels slower than my HR10 still running 3.5f.  The program guide is obviously still faster than the HR10's, but going through menus seems slower. I even tried clearing the suggestions and it didn't seem to help. The R-10 has far fewer SP's too. 15 compared to my HR10's 42.

BTW, Congrats to you all that already have 6.3. I'm still amazed Directv did this.


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## Bob_Newhart

vtfan99 said:


> What about the speed of the guide...with regards to simply displaying the grid with all the data?


Exactly. My biggest wish.


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## whsbuss

When the upgrade is installed, do you need to re-do any previous SP's? Or will the guide data that follows take care of it?


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## vtfan99

sluciani said:


> Seems very quick, though I did not notice that it was slow before. I don't normally use the D* horizontal grid. I prefer the Tivo "list" view.
> 
> I just tried the D* grid and it seemed fine, though.
> 
> /steve


Good to hear. I prefer the grid, but had to switch to the list because the grid was too slow to use. I hope to switch back after the update.


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## jasch

kbohip said:


> The strange thing is that lately, my R-10 running 6.1 feels slower than my HR10 still running 3.5f.


I don't think that has anything to do with 6.x. My R10 has allways been so slow to use, and I think it's because of the inferior hardware. When the R10 was introduced, it has a less powerful processor, and the motherboard had a smaller footprint and cheaper part.


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## sluciani

whsbuss said:


> When the upgrade is installed, do you need to re-do any previous SP's? Or will the guide data that follows take care of it?


All my passes were preserved, along with most of my other settings. The only thing I had to "re-do" was "Channels I Receive" and "Favorite Channels", which are now both done in the same menu.

/steve


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## Brillian1080p

For the curious among us, (Everybody) please include info on whether unit is hacked or not.

Thanks.

Me


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## Pab Sungenis

JaserLet said:


> For those of you who are now running 6.3, what differences have you noted? Are there any new options or features in the menus? How does performance compare to that of 6.2 on a regular Series2 DTivo?


One little thing I noticed, which I hadn't seen on any TiVo before. When you bring up the "Info" when watching a program from Now Playing, it shows you date and time for the recording in the window.

For example, first show I watched after installing the update was the "Today" show. The Info window showed "Recorded Sep. 14, 2006 at 7:00 AM on 10.1 WCAUDT" or something similar at the bottom of the description.


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## newsposter

ebonovic said:


> Just an FYI... speed is always going to be faster right after a restart.


You do mean after a start to 6.3 right? Because my weekly reboots to avoid the Channel Not Available error were killers. You have to wait for even the dtv button to work right. And the guide is much slower after reboot. Everything is like....s l o w m o for a while until it 'catches up"

so if you were saying after a reboot on the old system it should be faster, then I have 2 very bad machines here for a long time


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## tmdlkwd

Pab Sungenis said:


> One little thing I noticed, which I hadn't seen on any TiVo before. When you bring up the "Info" when watching a program from Now Playing, it shows you date and time for the recording in the window.
> 
> For example, first show I watched after installing the update was the "Today" show. The Info window showed "Recorded Sep. 14, 2006 at 7:00 AM on 10.1 WCAUDT" or something similar at the bottom of the description.


AHH..If I remember correctly, my old but memorable UTV did this as well
Kind of cool


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## Pab Sungenis

newsposter said:


> You do mean after a start to 6.3 right? Because my weekly reboots to avoid the Channel Not Available error were killers. You have to wait for even the dtv button to work right. And the guide is much slower after reboot. Everything is like....s l o w m o for a while until it 'catches up"


That was how I knew 6.3 was really a lot faster: right after the reboot it only took one second for keypresses to be acknowledged instead of 5!


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## PJO1966

The Keep At Most setting for Season Passes now offers 10 as an option.

When a conflict comes up when scheduling a recording, previously I thought it only told you one of the shows the new recording conflicted with, and you had to go to the To Do list to see what the other show is. Now it shows you what two shows the new recording conflicts with. :up:


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## PJO1966

Pab Sungenis said:


> That was how I knew 6.3 was really a lot faster: right after the reboot it only took one second for keypresses to be acknowledged instead of 5!


I know what you mean... I keep passing by menus I want to select. the TiVo is faster than me now.


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## willardcpa

newsposter said:


> You do mean after a start to 6.3 right? Because my weekly reboots to avoid the Channel Not Available error were killers. You have to wait for even the dtv button to work right. And the guide is much slower after reboot. Everything is like....s l o w m o for a while until it 'catches up"
> 
> so if you were saying after a reboot on the old system it should be faster, then I have 2 very bad machines here for a long time


NO! you are forgetting who said this. You're mistakenly thinking that "right after a restart" means "soon". So you're are thinking that you should additionally factor in "for a while until it 'catches up'". Well, the original "soon" came from Earl, and we all know how he is about time - to him mid August is September 12th!


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## Mark W

PJO1966 said:


> The Keep At Most setting for Season Passes now offers 10 as an option.
> 
> When a conflict comes up when scheduling a recording, previously I thought it only told you one of the shows the new recording conflicted with, and you had to go to the To Do list to see what the other show is. Now it shows you what two shows the new recording conflicts with. :up:


Really? I have not heard of this feature before, even with 6.2, can anyone else verify this? That would be a very nice enhancement.


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## HofstraJet

WishList has a registered trademark symbol next to it and describes what it is (WishList Search (Actor, Category, or Keyword)


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## guptasa1

I'm hoping this will resolve my occasional reboot during HD recording issues. *crosses fingers* Haven't gotten it yet.


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## petejones1

Mark W said:


> Really? I have not heard of this feature before, even with 6.2, can anyone else verify this? That would be a very nice enhancement.


 As I recall 6.2 on my hacked SD-40 showed both conflicts, HR10 with 3.x did not.


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## sluciani

Brillian1080p said:


> For the curious among us, (Everybody) please include info on whether unit is hacked or not.


Mine is not hacked. /s


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## phox_mulder

PJO1966 said:


> The Keep At Most setting for Season Passes now offers 10 as an option.


I'd like that feature.

My R10 has it, but I just noticed last night when I was setting up some SP's for next week's premieres that I could only go up to 5, then the next option was all episodes.

I found last year, I was getting about 5 weeks behind in some of my watching, and I'd hate for it to stop recording new eps, or delete unwatched eps when it hit that 5 ep wall.

Hopefully my box gets 6.3 soon.
Not going to force calls or check daily, when it gets it, it gets it.

phox


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## drew2k

I still don't have the upgrade yet.

Can anyone cofirm if 6.3 retains a feature introduced in 6.2, where you can use the channel-up/down keys when reordering programs in Season Pass manager? Channel-up and down moved a program a full screen, so this was great when adding a new SP in a list of 35 titles, and you wanted to make your new SP Item #1.

Also, I remember 6.2 reorganized the Settings options. Can anyone with 6.3 tell me how many keystrokes it takes (starting from DirecTV Central) to get to the Standard Captions of the Closed Caption screen? It's 12 key presses total on 3.1xxx.

4 arrow-down to Messages & Setup
1 Select
2 down to Settings
1 Select
1 Page-Down to Video
1 Select
1 Select on Closed Captioning
1 down to Standard Captions


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## rrr22777

drew2k said:


> I still don't have the upgrade yet.
> 
> Can anyone cofirm if 6.3 retains a feature introduced in 6.2, where you can use the channel-up/down keys when reordering programs in Season Pass manager? Channel-up and down moved a program a full screen, so this was great when adding a new SP in a list of 35 titles, and you wanted to make your new SP Item #1.
> 
> ...


Also on 6.2 you could hit the 30 second skip button to move to the very top or bottom of the list.


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## kroddy

rrr22777 said:


> Also on 6.2 you could hit the 30 second skip button to move to the very top or bottom of the list.


That works in 3.15... as does the channel change up/down for a full page move. I really hope they don't drop that in the new software


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## steelcurtain

sluciani said:


> As noted elsewhere, there's now a dynamic range control for analog audio.


What, exactly, does DRC do with/for analog audio? I've been searching around and haven't been able to find anything about it.


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## PJO1966

drew2k said:


> I still don't have the upgrade yet.
> 
> Can anyone cofirm if 6.3 retains a feature introduced in 6.2, where you can use the channel-up/down keys when reordering programs in Season Pass manager? Channel-up and down moved a program a full screen, so this was great when adding a new SP in a list of 35 titles, and you wanted to make your new SP Item #1.


I can confirm that. I just used that feature a little while ago.


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## jasch

I think that is what makes low sounds louder, and loud sounds lower. In theory to have everything at the same audio levels, not making you jump from your couch to turn down the volume when the commercial or an action sequence in a movie starts.

I think before it was only available for digital output.


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## drew2k

kroddy said:


> That works in 3.15... as does the channel change up/down for a full page move. I really hope they don't drop that in the new software


Yes, in 3.1xxx channel up/down serves as a page up/down to display content a page at a time, but it the season pass manager when you highlight the up/down prioritizer selection, you can only scroll up and down a row at a time using the normal navigation keys - you can't use the Channel/Page-up/down keys.

However, in 6.2 you can use the PAGE-up/down keys to re-prioritize a program and move it up or down a full screen at a time. I was just looking for verification that this still works in 6.3 on the SP manager.

ETA: And I type slow! By the time I hit "post", I was able to read PJO's response!


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## Anubys

PJO1966 said:


> The Keep At Most setting for Season Passes now offers 10 as an option.
> 
> When a conflict comes up when scheduling a recording, previously I thought it only told you one of the shows the new recording conflicted with, and you had to go to the To Do list to see what the other show is. Now it shows you what two shows the new recording conflicts with. :up:


these are two very unexpected -- but very welcome -- features... :up: :up: :up:


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## drew2k

PJO1966 said:


> I can confirm that. I just used that feature a little while ago.


Very cool! :up:

I really missed that feature, and now that I'm setting up SPs for the new fall TV season, this will come in handy ....


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## steelcurtain

jasch said:


> I think that is what makes low sounds louder, and loud sounds lower. In theory to have everything at the same audio levels, not making you jump from your couch to turn down the volume when the commercial or an action sequence in a movie starts.
> 
> I think before it was only available for digital output.


Thanks. That's good news, and certainly a welcome benefit.


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## rminsk

steelcurtain said:


> What, exactly, does DRC do with/for analog audio? I've been searching around and haven't been able to find anything about it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_level_compression


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## PJO1966

drew2k said:


> Very cool! :up:
> 
> I really missed that feature, and now that I'm setting up SPs for the new fall TV season, this will come in handy ....


I could have used it yesterday when I was completely reorganizing my Season Pass Manager. I was moving all network shows to the top and all cable shows with multiple repeats to the bottom. It would have gone a lot faster.


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## BrettStah

PJO1966 said:


> The Keep At Most setting for Season Passes now offers 10 as an option.
> 
> When a conflict comes up when scheduling a recording, previously I thought it only told you one of the shows the new recording conflicted with, and you had to go to the To Do list to see what the other show is. Now it shows you what two shows the new recording conflicts with. :up:


Does it let you decide which show is cancelled, or does it only let you know what the other show is, while still only letting you cancel the one with the lower priority?

Also, what if there are more than 2 shows involved?

For example, let's say that I have a 3-hour timeframe where twelve 30-minute shows are scheduled to record. Then I try to schedule a 3-hour football game for that same 3-hour period of time. Right now, my Tivo will show me the 6 lowest priority shows, letting me only cancel those 6 shows, or to change my mind about the football game recording. I'm curious how the new software handles such a situation.


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## PJO1966

BrettStah said:


> Does it let you decide which show is cancelled, or does it only let you know what the other show is, while still only letting you cancel the one with the lower priority?


From what I could tell, it did not give me the choice. I just made whatever selection would allow me to create the new Season Pass then I went into the SP Manager and made whatever adjustments were needed. For me it's just helpful seeing which shows are affected.


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## kbohip

PJO1966 said:


> I could have used it yesterday when I was completely reorganizing my Season Pass Manager. I was moving all network shows to the top and all cable shows with multiple repeats to the bottom. It would have gone a lot faster.


I'll make use of this new channel up/down key in the SP reordering too. How many of you have accidentally hit the left side of the cursor and exited the SP manager too soon?  This mistake can cost you some time if you have over 40 SP's like I do.


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## PJO1966

kbohip said:


> I'll make use of this new channel up/down key in the SP reordering too. How many of you have accidentally hit the left side of the cursor and exited the SP manager too soon?  This mistake can cost you some time if you have over 40 SP's like I do.


I posted this elsewhere, but it only takes mine a minute to rearrange Season Pass priorities. I did a Clear & Delete Program Data (I think that's what it's called, not C&D Everything) a few weeks ago and it's been much faster ever since. I have about 60 Season Passes now and it still only takes about a minute... same as before 6.3.


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## BrettStah

PJO1966 said:


> From what I could tell, it did not give me the choice. I just made whatever selection would allow me to create the new Season Pass then I went into the SP Manager and made whatever adjustments were needed. For me it's just helpful seeing which shows are affected.


Thanks... from a logistical point of view, that makes sense. I'd hate to see the user interface that we'd get if they decided to allow us to manually choose how each specific conflit is handled.


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## hiker

PJO1966 said:


> I posted this elsewhere, but it only takes mine a minute to rearrange Season Pass priorities. I did a Clear & Delete Program Data (I think that's what it's called, not C&D Everything) a few weeks ago and it's been much faster ever since. I have about 60 Season Passes now and it still only takes about a minute... same as before 6.3.


Hopefully with 6.3 it will not get progressively longer like it does with 3.1.5. And hopefully the "channel not available" error that pops up from time to time will be fixed.


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## TallGuy

PJO1966 said:


> I posted this elsewhere, but it only takes mine a minute to rearrange Season Pass priorities. I did a Clear & Delete Program Data (I think that's what it's called, not C&D Everything) a few weeks ago and it's been much faster ever since. I have about 60 Season Passes now and it still only takes about a minute... same as before 6.3.


What exactly is deleted in a "Clear and Delete Program Data" step? Does that delete the actual recorded programs, or just guide data etc.?


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## slydog75

PJO1966 said:


> The Keep At Most setting for Season Passes now offers 10 as an option.
> 
> When a conflict comes up when scheduling a recording, previously I thought it only told you one of the shows the new recording conflicted with, and you had to go to the To Do list to see what the other show is. Now it shows you what two shows the new recording conflicts with. :up:


WOOHOOO!!! About frickin' time! I wish they'd fix that on the SDs too


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## Tivo user

does it still work with the update i may unplug my phone line if it has been disabled


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## rminsk

30 second skip still works fine.


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## PJO1966

TallGuy said:


> What exactly is deleted in a "Clear and Delete Program Data" step? Does that delete the actual recorded programs, or just guide data etc.?


It does not delete recorded programs. It deletes all Season Passes and Wish Lists. It also clears the 28 day memory that prevents programs from recording twice. After the C&D I had a couple shows that had already been recorded and deleted record again. The biggest pain in the butt is having to do all the Season Passes and Wish Lists again.


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## Anubys

PJO1966 said:


> It does not delete recorded programs. It deletes all Season Passes and Wish Lists. It also clears the 28 day memory that prevents programs from recording twice. After the C&D I had a couple shows that had already been recorded and deleted record again. The biggest pain in the butt is having to do all the Season Passes and Wish Lists again.


you will also lose the channel logos...


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## mikeny

Anubys said:


> you will also lose the channel logos...


That reminds me to ask if anyone who had lost their logos got them back with the update?


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## PJO1966

Anubys said:


> you will also lose the channel logos...


I did not lose my logos with the C&D, maybe that's true with C&D Everything.


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## mtxguy74

Got it in Ohio 45324

Unhacked box

Forced two calls after work and got the modem handshake error. Third time was the charm. Haven't had time to really play yet.


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## BrettStah

OK, I rebooted, but I don't have 6.3. I have "3.1.5f-01-2-357". Unfortunately I didn't make a note of the exact version I had before the restart - for some reason I thought it had an "e" in it instead of an "f", so maybe there was a minor update released awhile back to fix some bugs, which didn't really add any new features? It was close to 600 days between phone calls - 583 days, IIRC.


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## willardcpa

RE: option of ten episodes on season passes



slydog75 said:


> WOOHOOO!!! About frickin' time! I wish they'd fix that on the SDs too


You better double check your SD unit then, because I just did and ten is an option, in between five and all.


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## headcase

Can anyone confirm in the update whether or not channels that you turned off within "Channels You Recieve" are not automatically re-populating magically?

For example, some of the shopping channels I turn off keep coming back after a day or two - very frustrating. This has been a known bug in the OS, which really sucks.


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## rminsk

headcase said:


> For example, some of the shopping channels I turn off keep coming back after a day or two - very frustrating. This has been a known bug in the OS, which really sucks.


This is not a bug but a design feature. When DirecTV adds a channel the receiver adds it to the channels you receive in case you may want it. DirecTV keeps dropping and re-adding the shopping channels.


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## az_double_eagle

Hey, for the people that have gotten 6.3 so far, do you know if they fixed the bug in the 6.2 release (like on my HDVR2, and I believe was also there in the HR10-250's 3.1xx release) where the record LED icon on the Now Playing List was still there even after you had gone into the details and manually stopped the recording?

This delays the deleting of the program (for us who are parsimonious in nature about our hard drive space) until you navigate off of the NPL screen and then come back to it, and then the record LED icon is gone.

I mostly do this when I pad a scheduled recording by 3 hours (like football or golf) and then it ends just a bit over the normal schedule, and then I want to manually stop the recording and free up the space.

It's mostly just an annoyance, but it would be really nice if they would had fixed it. Seems simple really when you think about it. <Hmmm, the guy just manually stopped the recording and confirmed it. I did just turn off the LED on the front of the recorder, now maybe, just maybe I should turn off the LED record icon on the NPL? Nah, I'm too tired now...>

Ah, sarcasm, one of life's true pleasures.

Seriously, man am I pumped about eventually getting 6.3!


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## Drestin

Call me crazy - but wouldn't it be nice if DTV issued a changelog or PDF of updated/changed features and menus. It just makes sense...


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## BrettStah

Drestin said:


> Call me crazy - but wouldn't it be nice if DTV issued a changelog or PDF of updated/changed features and menus. It just makes sense...


Here's a web page with some details...
http://directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPage.jsp?assetId=P3200006


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## headcase

rminsk said:


> This is not a bug but a design feature. When DirecTV adds a channel the receiver adds it to the channels you receive in case you may want it. DirecTV keeps dropping and re-adding the shopping channels.


How can channels that the user wants permanently off, which are magically turned back on, be called a "feature"??? And this isn't just limited to a couple of shopping channels -- it also happens with some of the "DirecTV channels" and other useless odd-balls I've repeatedly turned off.

No, in my book, that's a bug, even if it's more of a "TV programing bug" as opposed to a "technical bug".


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## BrettStah

headcase said:


> How can channels that the user wants permanently off, which are magically turned back on, be called a "feature"??? And this isn't just limited to a couple of shopping channels -- it also happens with some of the "DirecTV channels" and other useless odd-balls I've repeatedly turned off.
> 
> No, in my book, that's a bug, even if it's more of a "TV programing bug" as opposed to a "technical bug".


It's not a bug, because the software is behaving as it was designed to do so. The software is designed to automatically add any new channels that are added to the list of channels to the "Channels I Receive" list (presumably so that users would see that new channels are available, in case the users would find something interesting to watch on it - otherwise, users may never know about a new channel being available).

Could this feature be designed better? Sure... the software could be designed to remember which channels have previously been deselected by the user, and if that same exact channel is removed and then added back sometime in the future, to NOT add that channel back. But that's not how it is currently designed to operate - hopefully either the 6.3 update does add this enhancement, or a future update (if any) does so.


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## headcase

BrettStah said:


> It's not a bug, because the software is behaving as it was designed to do so. The software is designed to automatically add any new channels that are added to the list of channels to the "Channels I Receive" list (presumably so that users would see that new channels are available, in case the users would find something interesting to watch on it - otherwise, users may never know about a new channel being available).
> 
> Could this feature be designed better? Sure... the software could be designed to remember which channels have previously been deselected by the user, and if that same exact channel is removed and then added back sometime in the future, to NOT add that channel back. But that's not how it is currently designed to operate - hopefully either the 6.3 update does add this enhancement, or a future update (if any) does so.


I'm fully aware of that apect in your first point, which is certainly NOT a bug, and I agree on it's intent.

OK, so it's a "design flaw", vs. "bug", or whatever... but in the end, I'm referring to channels which are not "new", but are in fact the same channels that have been offered by DirecTV for many months (if not years), and they keep rearing their ugly heads even within 48 hours of the user turning them off. And if they keep coming back on, simply because some idiots back in the head office have decided to keep flagging those particular channels as "new", then hence my earlier comment that it's more like a "TV programming bug" (by the geniuses in the head office).

And if it's simply them flagging the channels ALWAYS as "hey, I'm a new channel, check me out!", then obviously a new software update won't remedy that. Uugh - more like a human bug.


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## Pab Sungenis

headcase said:


> And if it's simply them flagging the channels ALWAYS as "hey, I'm a new channel, check me out!", then obviously a new software update won't remedy that. Uugh - more like a human bug.


Maybe someone in the Underground or "over there" with more experience in MFS than I should write a "nuke channel" TCL script, so that if a specific channel number or code shows up in your "received" lists, it's removed immediately.


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## jamieh1

Once a channel is removed by directv (taken down not available to view) and then the channel comes back up, it will automatically appear in the list.

Example the infomercial channels like Celeb shopping, GEMS these channels are only on for a certain amount of time each day, then directv removes it, you cant even tune to it, it does not show up, then directv adds it back the next day to air it again. Directv does this on these part time ad channels so they will appear on subs recievers because Directv makes money on the ad channels and they want them viewable, not removed from the channels list.


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## k2ue

sluciani said:


> Major disappointments:
> 
> No native passthrough option.
> /steve


I've had HD receivers with Native, and unless you're compulsive (maybe 50% of the folks here <grin>) you wind up not using it because the time to a stable picture goes way up, and channel surfing becomes agony. Think about it: the Receiver has to switch conversions, then output enough for the TV to determine the format, then the TV has to switch. OTOH setting the output to the native resolution of your TV requires nothing to change with channel -- much faster. Besides, I've found SD channels look better when output to my Sammy DLP at 720p, than when output at 480i or 480p with all the receivers I've used (Hughes, Samsung & HR10). And 1080i HD, such as HDnet Test Patterns look equally good when output at 720p, vs. letting the Sammy convert.

So Native may be more of a solution in search of a problem for most folks.


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## lynesjc

I actually agree with you on this. I'd like NP as a feature, but wouldn't ever use it.


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## keenanSR

Hooked up a S3 last night with a DVDO VP30 video processor, and NP is very nice, I won't be using the S3 any other way. Having the deinterlacing/scaling offloaded to a more capable device can give definite improvements in PQ.

The improvements may not be as realized with a sat signal though given the torture it's already been through.


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## JoeSchueller

Dont forget HR10's also support OTA (much less "molesting" than the D* signals), so NP is still a big deal.


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## BBREAL

Gee, you guys found a lot of stuff so quickly. I did not get channel logos/icons as I expected with a new update that had been lost with a hard drive replacement. Any chance they still may show up? Also under system info I see a category I never saw before
DVR Service level with a P next to it. What is that?


----------



## keenanSR

JoeSchueller said:


> Dont forget HR10's also support OTA (much less "molesting" than the D* signals), so NP is still a big deal.


Yes, very true, forgot about that, I don't get OTA up here in the boondocks where I'm at.


----------



## Pab Sungenis

Another interesting change. When setting recording options, adding time to the end of a recording has always had the option "1 minute," "2 minutes," "5 minutes," "10 minutes" and so on. When setting a new season pass on 6.3 today, it offered padding of 1, 2, 3, 4, then 5 minutes.

A bit more flexible.


----------



## newsposter

BBREAL said:


> DVR Service level with a P next to it. What is that?


P remier? Guess not T itanium

Paid?


----------



## MisterEd

Have new channel logos been added within this new update ?


----------



## Cudahy

The site description says "several weeks" so I guess most of us can expect it by the end of September. 
I still have no idea if the "folders" change will be useful.


----------



## BBREAL

MisterEd said:


> Have new channel logos been added within this new update ?


I needed them and did not get them. Did anyone else get them that did not already have them?

I just noticed on the web page describing the update that the screen shot shows no logos on Now Playing.

How do we get the logos now?


----------



## rrr22777

Here is my experience... initially after the upgrade for about 1-2 hours it was very slow. Must be doing something in the background. After that it is very fast. All functionality is faster, menus, navigation, guide etc

The Audio DRM is a nice feature. Must be there on my other tivo. Always wondered why the sound effects and commercials seemed bearable on those compared to the HR10.


----------



## cheer

k2ue said:


> Besides, I've found SD channels look better when output to my Sammy DLP at 720p, than when output at 480i or 480p with all the receivers I've used (Hughes, Samsung & HR10). And 1080i HD, such as HDnet Test Patterns look equally good when output at 720p, vs. letting the Sammy convert.
> 
> So Native may be more of a solution in search of a problem for most folks.


Totally depends on your set. Is your TV older? Because I gotta tell you, my Panny plasma has *way* better scaling than the HR10-250, so I'd definitely prefer NP (though it's not a huge thing for me). Also, people who use external scalars truly need NP.


----------



## cheer

Regarding DRC:


jasch said:


> I think that is what makes low sounds louder, and loud sounds lower. In theory to have everything at the same audio levels, not making you jump from your couch to turn down the volume when the commercial or an action sequence in a movie starts.
> 
> I think before it was only available for digital output.


Actually, it's never been available for digital output -- and still isn't. Which sucks. Especially as some of the commercials inserted by D* (as opposed to those coming from the networks) are WAY louder than the shows (esp. shows in 5.1).

I pretty much have to sit here with the remote in my hand and an itchy trigger finger. S'pose I'll have to get a receiver that does this at some point.


----------



## Dssturbo1

ok anubis doesn't want this feature or doesnt matter to him

but can you pull up the channel guide while watching a prerecorded program with 6.3?


----------



## Dssturbo1

hey brett yes there was a F upgrade early 2005 meant to fix some ota signal meter and hdmi issues. unpluggeed that long you just upgrade from e to f. hopefully 6.3 soon


----------



## Anubys

Dssturbo1 said:


> ok anubis doesn't want this feature or doesnt matter to him
> 
> but can you pull up the channel guide while watching a prerecorded program with 6.3?


me? what did I do? 

I think I simply objected to characterizing it as a bug...since the software is working as intended...


----------



## cheer

Dssturbo1 said:


> obut can you pull up the channel guide while watching a prerecorded program with 6.3?


No.


----------



## BrettStah

Dssturbo1 said:


> hey brett yes there was a F upgrade early 2005 meant to fix some ota signal meter and hdmi issues. unpluggeed that long you just upgrade from e to f. hopefully 6.3 soon


Thanks! Glad someone saw my post...


----------



## sluciani

Cudahy said:


> The site description says "several weeks" so I guess most of us can expect it by the end of September.
> I still have no idea if the "folders" change will be useful.


I don't find folders as useful as some. I scheduled wish lists for a couple of shows like CSI and L&O, so, e.g., the folder feature lumps all the CSI's (NY, Miami and CSI) in the same directory. The real (and maybe only) advantage I see with 6.3 is the increased speed when managing season's passes and scheduling recordings.

/steve


----------



## willardcpa

sluciani said:


> I don't find folders as useful as some. I scheduled wish lists for a couple of shows like CSI and L&O, so, e.g., the folder feature lumps all the CSI's (NY, Miami and CSI) in the same directory.....


Set up season passes for each series ie. one for CSI-NY, one for CSI Miami, etc, and then each one will have it's own folder. You are not getting all of the advantages of folders because of what you are doing, not because they are not working correctly. Kind of like the secretary who filed all of her bosses correspondence in the "L" folder because they were all "L"etters.


----------



## Dssturbo1

np anubys, i understand your point. but just hope others want this changed ...not fixed.

it is a bug to me when they intend for their software to make me go through the trouble of having to go from watching my prerecorded show to live tv and then go back to my prerecorded show after i see what i want in the guide. it should be an easy fix unless it is patented? replay has works fine with doing that. why doesn't the hd tivo. WHY do they intend for me to have to do that? unfortunately i hopes it "bugs" others too and enough would ask that they change it if they can.

like native passthrough. i dont need it and it doesnt bother me but i understand why others do and want it. and support they should get it if possible for direct to do it through a software upgrade.


----------



## toddcurry

So I suppose none of the features like HME, Tivo Desktop, Scheduling shows over the web, HMO, and TivotoGo will work with 6.3?

I don't know if I've ever owned a product I was simultaneously so excited to own, yet disappointed by. Just seems like TiVo has created a stream of orphaned software, and as a Directv subscriber, I've totally missed out.


----------



## cheer

Depends on whether you want to hack it or not.


----------



## stevel

toddcurry said:


> So I suppose none of the features like HME, Tivo Desktop, Scheduling shows over the web, HMO, and TivotoGo will work with 6.3?
> 
> I don't know if I've ever owned a product I was simultaneously so excited to own, yet disappointed by. Just seems like TiVo has created a stream of orphaned software, and as a Directv subscriber, I've totally missed out.


HMO probably works with 6.3, if hacked for network enabling. The code for MRV and TiVoDesktop support seems to have been removed. HME is not present in the 6.x code. You can use TiVoWebPlus to schedule over the web, but nothing that uses TiVo's servers.


----------



## rminsk

toddcurry said:


> Just seems like TiVo has created a stream of orphaned software, and as a Directv subscriber, I've totally missed out.


I'm sure TiVo wants you to have HMO and such but DirecTV had them disable it. Do not blame TiVo for the missing features.


----------



## cheer

stevel said:


> HME is not present in the 6.x code.


Is this certain? I think I see pieces of it, at least, in 6.3...in fact, I'd argue that architecturally 6.3 seems more like 7.x than, say, 6.2.


----------



## stevel

Well, that seems to be what I read over at the "deals" place. I don't know first-hand, though. It does appear that TiVo removed a lot of the network code that had been present but disabled in 6.1/6.2.


----------



## Stephen M. Smith

I'm still waiting on the 6.3 upgrade for my HD TiVo, but here are a few gripes after the same upgrade on my HDVR2 and I assume are there for this upgrade as well:

1) Can no longer sort Now Playing list by expiration

2) Can't navigate up/down Now Playing list via Page Up/Page Down when looking at the recording details page (and folders are on)

3) Frame forward/backward is screwy

4) Stopping a recording in a folder from NP list doesn't correctly refresh the state, ie. still shows as recording until you exit and re-enter the folder, so you can't stop and then delete a recording in 2 steps


----------



## sluciani

willardcpa said:


> Set up season passes for each series ie. one for CSI-NY, one for CSI Miami, etc, and then each one will have it's own folder. You are not getting all of the advantages of folders because of what you are doing, not because they are not working correctly. Kind of like the secretary who filed all of her bosses correspondence in the "L" folder because they were all "L"etters.


I actually did it this way because 3.1 was soooo slow I thought that reducing the total # of season's pass might speed things up a bit. I guess with the speed increase of 6.3, this technique is no longer necessary, assuming it ever worked in the first place. 

/s


----------



## newsposter

Stephen M. Smith said:


> 2) Can't navigate up/down Now Playing list via Page Up/Page Down when looking at the recording details page (and folders are on)


that better not be true....what would be the technological roadblock for them turning this off?


----------



## Pab Sungenis

newsposter said:


> that better not be true....what would be the technological roadblock for them turning this off?


Page Up and Down in detail view navigate within _a folder_ under 6.3 with groups on.

With groups off, they navigate through the whole list in detail view.


----------



## drew2k

newsposter said:


> that better not be true....what would be the technological roadblock for them turning this off?


I'm betting it has to do with the grouping (folders) feature and how some recordings may appear in more than one folder, but I don't know why they couldn't implement something restore consistent functionality when viewing the program details page.


Code:


Example: 

Folder A        Folder B
----------      ----------
Title-A1        Title-B1
Title-A2        Title-A2
Title-A3        Title-B3

If you open folder B and look at details for Title A2, you would think TiVo should know that Page-Up should display Title B1, but I have a feeling TiVo didn't build the internal structures necessary to know that. Why? You got me ...


----------



## drew2k

Pab Sungenis said:


> Page Up and Down in detail view navigate within _a folder_ under 6.3 with groups on.
> 
> With groups off, they navigate through the whole list in detail view.


Well, never mind what I wrote then!


----------



## JaserLet

stevel said:


> HMO probably works with 6.3, if hacked for network enabling. The code for MRV and TiVoDesktop support seems to have been removed. HME is not present in the 6.x code. You can use TiVoWebPlus to schedule over the web, but nothing that uses TiVo's servers.


So no MRV with 6.3?? 

MRV is what I love the most about my hacked 6.2 boxes!


----------



## cheer

JaserLet said:


> So no MRV with 6.3??
> 
> MRV is what I love the most about my hacked 6.2 boxes!


Too soon to tell. I'm pessimistic, based on what I see, but I'm not an expert. I may just not be familiar with the structure; 6.3 seems more like 7.x than 6.2.


----------



## az_double_eagle

Stephen M. Smith said:


> I'm still waiting on the 6.3 upgrade for my HD TiVo, but here are a few gripes after the same upgrade on my HDVR2 and I assume are there for this upgrade as well:
> 
> < snip>
> 
> 4) Stopping a recording in a folder from NP list doesn't correctly refresh the state, ie. still shows as recording until you exit and re-enter the folder, so you can't stop and then delete a recording in 2 steps


My HDVR2 actually still does your #4.

I wrote post #58 in this thread asking for confirmation if this problem had been fixed in 6.3 for the HR10-250s, but, alas, I guess it hasn't.

Thanks, Stephen, for the confirmation that it's still a bug. Bummer.


----------



## LlamaLarry

I really, really like the new channel setup menu. Being able to set channels I receive and Favorites in one pass is sweet.


----------



## jcricket

Interesting that just as 6.3 becomes available Earl announces (in the other forums) that he's de-activating his HR10. Hmm 

No, seriously, I'm happy to be getting 6.3, because it's too early for me to switch to any other hardware (S3, HR20, Comcast/Tivo) even if they're all out this year. 6.3 gives me the ability to comfortable wait another year or so for someone will come up with something that's actually a real improvement on the HR10, instead of a sideways trade with a different UI and *maybe* a little better performance.

I really want 4 tuners of simultaneous recording, a responsive UI "tuned" (uses more pixels) for HD, Internet scheduling, HMO/HME-like features and, ideally MRV (esp. if I can have secondary receivers that just stream content. With those specs at least 1 TB of storage sounds good too. Oh, and someone throw in a Netflix-like service that downloads movies directly to the box (why bother with DVDs, mailing, etc.) or put a HD-DVD player in the box too 

Nothing's there yet (the Dish HD DVR is close, but I'm loathe to go back to them for historial reasons). So for now, 6.3's not bad.


----------



## aprest

One of my three HR10-250 STBs received the 6.3 update last night and caused me lots of grief. When the HR10-250 reset itself it added a bunch of OTA channels that I can't receive but the big problem was that I had no audio on the channels broadcasting in Dolby 5.1. I did not realize that I had the new software and started testing cables and connections. It turned out that there is a new Audio Digital Output menu selection that allows you to chose between Dolby Digital (which is where it was set after the update) or Dolby Digital to PCM. The Dolby Digital requires that you run the HDMI cable through a Dolby Digital decoder which my monitor does not have. Once I reset it to Dolby Digital to PCM it worked fine.


----------



## cheer

aprest said:


> One of my three HR10-250 STBs received the 6.3 update last night and caused me lots of grief. When the HR10-250 reset itself it added a bunch of OTA channels that I can't receive but the big problem was that I had no audio on the channels broadcasting in Dolby 5.1. I did not realize that I had the new software and started testing cables and connections. It turned out that there is a new Audio Digital Output menu selection that allows you to chose between Dolby Digital (which is where it was set after the update) or Dolby Digital to PCM. The Dolby Digital requires that you run the HDMI cable through a Dolby Digital decoder which my monitor does not have. Once I reset it to Dolby Digital to PCM it worked fine.


Clarification: it doesn't require HDMI, but it does mean that all audio output (either via the HDMI OR Toslink connector) are in DD format and will require a DD decoder. Note that most TVs do NOT have a DD decoder, so unless you are connected to a digital surround receiver, you should set this to PCM as aprest did.


----------



## cheer

jcricket said:


> I really want 4 tuners of simultaneous recording, a responsive UI "tuned" (uses more pixels) for HD, Internet scheduling, HMO/HME-like features and, ideally MRV (esp. if I can have secondary receivers that just stream content. With those specs at least 1 TB of storage sounds good too. Oh, and someone throw in a Netflix-like service that downloads movies directly to the box (why bother with DVDs, mailing, etc.) or put a HD-DVD player in the box too
> 
> Nothing's there yet (the Dish HD DVR is close, but I'm loathe to go back to them for historial reasons). So for now, 6.3's not bad.


Build a MythTV box. OK, so it won't work (HD) for sat, and cable is iffy (it can do unencrypted QAM but no cablecard), but you can have 4 or more tuners and the other features you want. I'm building one now to take over OTA recording -- it'll start at 4 tuners and we'll go from there.


----------



## dm999

Has anyone else noticed the To Do List having problems after the 6.3 update on an HR10-250? When scrolling through the list, I now randomly get the end-of-list 'bong'. If i hit the pageup/down button a couple of times, then it MAY move to the next/prev page...eventually. Sometimes it just jumps back ot the top of the list.

I tried power cycling the unit, and it corrected the issue for a couple of hours, but it's back again now    .

Other than that, the unit seems to be a bit faster. Not sure I like the groups option. I set up SP for individual shows (first run only/keep until i delete), and WL for those shows I don't mind seeing repeast of (firstrun & repeats/keep until space needed). We also have several WL for movie categories. The groups list seems to put the same show in several lists at the same time. I may just need to get used to it. The channel setup was nice, but I wish they wouldn't have rectivated all the channels I had already turned off.


----------



## Stephen M. Smith

dm999 said:


> Has anyone else noticed the To Do List having problems after the 6.3 update on an HR10-250? When scrolling through the list, I now randomly get the end-of-list 'bong'. If i hit the pageup/down button a couple of times, then it MAY move to the next/prev page...eventually. Sometimes it just jumps back ot the top of the list.
> 
> I tried power cycling the unit, and it corrected the issue for a couple of hours, but it's back again now    .
> 
> Other than that, the unit seems to be a bit faster. Not sure I like the groups option. I set up SP for individual shows (first run only/keep until i delete), and WL for those shows I don't mind seeing repeast of (firstrun & repeats/keep until space needed). We also have several WL for movie categories. The groups list seems to put the same show in several lists at the same time. I may just need to get used to it. The channel setup was nice, but I wish they wouldn't have rectivated all the channels I had already turned off.


That's a known problem in latest software updates (for HDVR2 too) but it actually a feature rather than a problem -- prior to this update, when you scrolled too fast and TiVo needed some time to catch up, it would just freeze completely and appear locked up for a little while. Now it "bongs" to let you know that it got your remote command and will get to it soon.

Speaking of ToDo list, one great new feature is the jump to top or end of list via the (-) key... works for any list (NP, SP's, etc) *except* the ToDo list, which is unfortunate since that's always the longest list and getting all the way to the bottom is the only way to see your expired SP's...


----------



## utmba95

rrr22777 said:


> Also on 6.2 you could hit the 30 second skip button to move to the very top or bottom of the list.


Sweet. I didn't know about that feature. It does work in 6.3.

I'm extremely happy with the performance. I messed around with season passes (25 in the list) while tuned to two hi-def channels and it was very tolerable.


----------



## Redux

stevel said:


> The code for MRV ... seems to have been removed.


You would be the only source for this, at the moment. Are you comfortable with that?

Bottom line, meaning complete and usable functionality, you may well turn out to be right.


----------



## cheer

Redux said:


> You would be the only source for this, at the moment. Are you comfortable with that?
> 
> Bottom line, meaning complete and usable functionality, you may well turn out to be right.


He's not the only source at all, but I don't think anyone is certain.

What we know for sure is that there were certain things that could be found in the files in /tvlib/idl in 6.2 that don't seem to be there now. Is it possible that the structures or labels have changed? Absolutely.

If it's there, it's different from 6.2. It may not be there. It may be there but not possible to enable (or at least highly impractical). Or it may be there and easily enabled.

Don't know yet.


----------



## itzme

I have separate receiver for 5.1 surround, connected to th HR10 via a Toslink. So which sound setting would I want to use? why? and whats the difference? (when I get my update)


----------



## cheer

itzme said:


> I have separate receiver for 5.1 surround, connected to th HR10 via a Toslink. So which sound setting would I want to use? why? and whats the difference? (when I get my update)


Well ideally you would want to configure digital output for dolby digital. However, at least some of us have had bad audio dropouts when doing so.

If that happens to you, switch your digital output to PCM. It won't give you surround but it works, at least until a fix is found.


----------



## stevel

If you want to follow the investigation into what networking features can and cannot be enabled in 6.3, I suggest you become a regular reader of the "database of deals" forum and the discussion on this topic. I've been reading it and, the last I saw, some of the critical pieces were missing from the software. Cheer has also been participating (including posting, which I have not).

I don't profess to be an expert in this area, so if it matters to you, go read for yourself.


----------



## dm999

Stephen M. Smith said:


> That's a known problem in latest software updates (for HDVR2 too) but it actually a feature rather than a problem -- prior to this update, when you scrolled too fast and TiVo needed some time to catch up, it would just freeze completely and appear locked up for a little while. Now it "bongs" to let you know that it got your remote command and will get to it soon.
> 
> Speaking of ToDo list, one great new feature is the jump to top or end of list via the (-) key... works for any list (NP, SP's, etc) *except* the ToDo list, which is unfortunate since that's always the longest list and getting all the way to the bottom is the only way to see your expired SP's...


That would be great...if it worked. My challenge right now is that I can't get more than 4-5 days into the the To Do List. After that, all it will do is 'bong' for a while, then immediately jump to the beginning of the list.


----------



## BBREAL

I noticed a minor change - when adjusting the channel no. on the over the air antenna function. The reception is still quirky good for awhile, then bad without any changes in antenna position - but the changing of frequency is now continuous instead of stepped. You can move to the desired frequency by holding down the right ( or left ) button instead of quick multiple pressing.

Also when I return to live TV the station on at least one tuner has changed to that no., not the correct channel it represents but the actual no. ( in this case 31 represents channel 5-1 )


----------



## LlamaLarry

BBreal, I saw that too (the channel freq when going back to live feed vs the mapped channel assignment), but it went back to normal almost immediately. Yours stuck that way?


----------



## BBREAL

LlamaLarry said:


> BBreal, I saw that too (the channel freq when going back to live feed vs the mapped channel assignment), but it went back to normal almost immediately. Yours stuck that way?


yes, I had to chg the channel manually. No biggie, just odd.


----------



## altan

So... to ask a scary question... is the upgrade really worth much? I've read this and other threads and have yet to see anyone say it's that great. I was personally looking forward to the performance boost more than anything.

While I've grown used to the DirecTV Guide, it is unbelievably slow. I prefer it to the somewhat faster Tivo Guide. It's so slow it's almost unimaginable a product was released with this performance (at the original price point). Having said that, Im using it and not actively complaining.

Did the upgrade make the guide perform reasonably? To make up a metric on the spot, Id say reasonable means painting the entire visible DirecTV Guide within 1 second. With 3.1.5, its pretty common for it to take 3+ seconds.

 Altan

(I don't have the upgrade yet)


----------



## JoeSchueller

Assuming 6.3 does NOT hold the MRV code, and it isn't a simple cut/paste from 6.2, would one assume that the majority of the "upgrade" users will revert back to 6.2 and use that as the stable codebase?


----------



## stevel

JoeSchueller said:


> Assuming 6.3 does NOT hold the MRV code, and it isn't a simple cut/paste from 6.2, would one assume that the majority of the "upgrade" users will revert back to 6.2 and use that as the stable codebase?


Um, no. They might revert to 3.1.5f if they saved an image, but that doesn't provide MRV. 6.2 is for the standard definition Series 2 DTiVos other than the R10.


----------



## JoeSchueller

I guess I didn't ask the question right. Let's say I "zipped" an HR10 to 6.2 and got a performance boost and several enhancements. If a 6.3 upgrade removed these enhancements in a way I couldn't get back, wouldn't I just restore to a backup of that 6.2 image and go from there?


----------



## Vegas

JoeSchueller said:


> I guess I didn't ask the question right. Let's say I "zipped" an HR10 to 6.2 and got a performance boost and several enhancements. If a 6.3 upgrade removed these enhancements in a way I couldn't get back, wouldn't I just restore to a backup of that 6.2 image and go from there?


Sorry. Can't zipper (or anything else) an HR10 to 6.2
6.2 is for SD DTivos. It wont run on the HD DTivos.


----------



## W2DHS

altan said:


> So... to ask a scary question... is the upgrade really worth much? I've read this and other threads and have yet to see anyone say it's that great. I was personally looking forward to the performance boost more than anything.


*It's great.*

The folders alone make my TiVo 100% easier to use, and the performance increase is really noticeable.

I think the praise has been limited because everyone was hoping for all the network features and was disappointed.


----------



## hiker

W2DHS said:


> *It's great.*
> 
> The folders alone make my TiVo 100% easier to use, and the performance increase is really noticeable.
> 
> I think the praise has been limited because everyone was hoping for all the network features and was disappointed.


And who knows if 6.3 will get slower like 3.1.5 over time. Let's hope Clear & Delete Everything isn't necessary anymore.


----------



## TonyD79

Haven't seen this mentioned. Does 6.3 remove the little hiccup when you switch between buffers? You know, the little pause after about 1 second of video/audio?


----------



## Budget_HT

Anyone know if 6.3 fixed the audio droputs I hear on the music (audio only) channels on my HR10-250? I do not have thatproblem with my Sony series 1 sd SAT-T60.


----------



## dthreet

WOW!!! thats the fist time i heard of the Now Playing list backdoor. Thumb up, Thumb down, thumb up, 7,8. wish 6.3 had it, but i am just happy to have folders, i thought the day would never come. sad thing is that directv is going to move all the hd to mpeg4  oh well still will have the off air


----------



## RoyGBiv

There is only one feature I am really interested in. Does the new software allow a "full" mode. for a 4:3 SD image. That is, right now you can either show it with "panels" i.e. with gray or black side bars, or without panels, i.e. "stretched." I would like to be able to use a full mode which would zoom the pictcure to fill the screen side to side but keeping the same A/R and cutting off some of the top and bottom. Can the 6.3 software do this? This to me is a no-brainer feature that I can't believe no one seems to care about.

SMK


----------



## Cudahy

Sounds like very few people have actually gotten the 6.3 yet. Maybe next week.


----------



## cheer

RoyGBiv said:


> There is only one feature I am really interested in. Does the new software allow a "full" mode. for a 4:3 SD image. That is, right now you can either show it with "panels" i.e. with gray or black side bars, or without panels, i.e. "stretched." I would like to be able to use a full mode which would zoom the pictcure to fill the screen side to side but keeping the same A/R and cutting off some of the top and bottom. Can the 6.3 software do this? This to me is a no-brainer feature that I can't believe no one seems to care about.


No, it does not.

I presume you want this for letterboxed 4:3 SD programming, right? (Can't think of any other reason.) It'd be nice...but then again you're just blowing the image up, so it might be bigger but it isn't any better...


----------



## berfsicle

cheer said:


> No, it does not.
> 
> I presume you want this for letterboxed 4:3 SD programming, right? (Can't think of any other reason.) It'd be nice...but then again you're just blowing the image up, so it might be bigger but it isn't any better...


i know that i wanted a feature similar to that more than anything else... my local cbs affiliate broadcasts gray bars on the sides of 4:3 programming, and i have a 4:3 tv so all it does is give me annoying gray bars when i wouldnt need them (i even almost got rid of them when i found out jeopardy was going HD [jeopardy is one of the few 4:3 shows i watch on that channel], but my local isnt carrying it in HD yet)...

oh well, i just hope you guys figure out MRV for 6.3, that will make up for it IMO


----------



## Stephen M. Smith

dm999 said:


> That would be great...if it worked. My challenge right now is that I can't get more than 4-5 days into the the To Do List. After that, all it will do is 'bong' for a while, then immediately jump to the beginning of the list.


I've seen that a few times as well. It's reboot time.


----------



## Stephen M. Smith

altan said:


> So... to ask a scary question... is the upgrade really worth much? I've read this and other threads and have yet to see anyone say it's that great. I was personally looking forward to the performance boost more than anything.
> 
> While I've grown used to the DirecTV Guide, it is unbelievably slow. I prefer it to the somewhat faster Tivo Guide. It's so slow it's almost unimaginable a product was released with this performance (at the original price point). Having said that, Im using it and not actively complaining.
> 
> Did the upgrade make the guide perform reasonably? To make up a metric on the spot, Id say reasonable means painting the entire visible DirecTV Guide within 1 second. With 3.1.5, its pretty common for it to take 3+ seconds.
> 
> Altan
> 
> (I don't have the upgrade yet)


There are a few gripes w/6.3, but they are so minor compared to what you get. Not just performance but stability too -- my HDVR2 frequently had little quirks here and there that required a reboot to fix prior to 6.2, but since then, I haven't rebooted it yet. Almost 2 years I think...


----------



## mwl001

I got 6.3 on Friday, and love what it offered -- increased speed and folders. I have a couple of issues, and just want to see if anyone else has seen them.

1. My OTA signal strength meters no longer work. When I say this, I mean JUST the meters. I still get HD OTA reception (as good if not better than before), and when I go to the "System Test" option, a signal strength percentage shows up there. For various reasons (refurb replacement or HR20, waiting again for 6.3, trying to dump local phone line) I may not contact DirecTV about this problem, and certainly won't let them take my current unit if this is the only thing wrong with it.
2. When I switch among HD channels, I get the "searching for antenna signal" box every time, only for a moment, then the channel tunes. It doesn't bug me, but it didn't happen before and I'm wondering if it's related to above or a separate issue, or just part of the update.

Here is the only other thing I can think of -- I set up my system with a cheap RCA omnidirectional antenna, but switched to a Silver Sensor last week before the upgrade. I'm 4.5 miles from the antennas -- could I have fried the signal strength meter? I didn't think it was separate from the tuners, which still work great. Secondarily, I guess if there is a cheap way to check signal strength/accuracy via a third party meter, that will probably be more accurate than the HR10's anyway -- are these available, and what do they cost?

Thanks,
Mike


----------



## RoyGBiv

cheer said:


> No, it does not.
> 
> I presume you want this for letterboxed 4:3 SD programming, right? (Can't think of any other reason.) It'd be nice...but then again you're just blowing the image up, so it might be bigger but it isn't any better...


You are correct that you're just blowing up the image. You'd be surprised, though, that it looks pretty good a lot of the time. There are lots of things shown on PBS now that are letterboxed, and I'd like to blow them up. Also, I watch a lot of hockey. You'd be amazed how little you miss of the action by removing some of the top and bottom, but making the picture fit the screen makes it quite entertaining. I have a Panasonic plasma which can't change A/R's when receiving a HD picture. Right now, I do this by changing the resolution out of the HR10-250, and then I use the display's controls to stretch it. I'd rather do it directly.

Oh, well......

SMK


----------



## RoyGBiv

mwl001 said:


> I got 6.3 on Friday, and love what it offered -- increased speed and folders. I have a couple of issues, and just want to see if anyone else has seen them.
> 
> 1. My OTA signal strength meters no longer work. When I say this, I mean JUST the meters. I still get HD OTA reception (as good if not better than before), and when I go to the "System Test" option, a signal strength percentage shows up there. For various reasons (refurb replacement or HR20, waiting again for 6.3, trying to dump local phone line) I may not contact DirecTV about this problem, and certainly won't let them take my current unit if this is the only thing wrong with it.
> 2. When I switch among HD channels, I get the "searching for antenna signal" box every time, only for a moment, then the channel tunes. It doesn't bug me, but it didn't happen before and I'm wondering if it's related to above or a separate issue, or just part of the update.
> 
> Here is the only other thing I can think of -- I set up my system with a cheap RCA omnidirectional antenna, but switched to a Silver Sensor last week before the upgrade. I'm 4.5 miles from the antennas -- could I have fried the signal strength meter? I didn't think it was separate from the tuners, which still work great. Secondarily, I guess if there is a cheap way to check signal strength/accuracy via a third party meter, that will probably be more accurate than the HR10's anyway -- are these available, and what do they cost?
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike


Mike,

I don't have the upgrade yet, but I've had both problems you mention. For weeks on and off my OTA meter signal has read zero when I've done a system test. But OTA works perfectly. If I go to the specific area to test the signal for each channel, it gives the correct numbers on the meter, but it still doesn't show up in the system test.

I've had the other situation you mention also, where it seems to be searching for the satellite signal. This happens briefly after a big storm has temporarily obliterated one of the signals. If I then try to tune to a station I haven't used since the storm, it will give me that message before actually tuning in the station.

SMK


----------



## BBREAL

I have had the searching for channel thing - not every time but quite a lot the last few days and not before 6.3 except when I had actually lost cannel.


----------



## sluciani

Stephen M. Smith said:


> There are a few gripes w/6.3, but they are so minor compared to what you get. Not just performance but stability too -- my HDVR2 frequently had little quirks here and there that required a reboot to fix prior to 6.2, but since then, I haven't rebooted it yet. Almost 2 years I think...


You realize, of course, you just jinxed yourself! 

/steve


----------



## LlamaLarry

RoyGBiv said:


> I don't have the upgrade yet, but I've had both problems you mention. For weeks on and off my OTA meter signal has read zero when I've done a system test. But OTA works perfectly. If I go to the specific area to test the signal for each channel, it gives the correct numbers on the meter, but it still doesn't show up in the system test.


Same here on my unhacked box with 3.1.5f.


----------



## cheer

RoyGBiv said:


> You are correct that you're just blowing up the image. You'd be surprised, though, that it looks pretty good a lot of the time. There are lots of things shown on PBS now that are letterboxed, and I'd like to blow them up. Also, I watch a lot of hockey. You'd be amazed how little you miss of the action by removing some of the top and bottom, but making the picture fit the screen makes it quite entertaining. I have a Panasonic plasma which can't change A/R's when receiving a HD picture. Right now, I do this by changing the resolution out of the HR10-250, and then I use the display's controls to stretch it. I'd rather do it directly.
> 
> Oh, well......
> 
> SMK


I don't disagree. In fact, I do this frequently. Right next to my HR10-250 is an SD-DVR80 (well, technically now it's an SD-DVR8 I suppose) which is used just to MRV stuff from our master bedroom SD-DVR80. (I record a lot of non-HD stuff up there, trying to keep the HR10 free for HD and/or OTA programming.) Sometimes that programming is letterboxed (Nip/Tuck, Rescue Me...) and in those situations I'll use my Panny's Zoom feature, which basically stretches both up and out, if you will, so you get the 16x9 image blown up to fill the screen without distorting the aspect ratio. It's not _quite_ as sharp as watching it in letterboxed 4x3, but, heck, it's SD programming so it's not as though it looks supersharp anyway. 

So yeah, I could use the feature on the HR10 to do that since, like you, when watching via a digital connection my Panny's screen controls are disabled.


----------



## PJO1966

I've found a slight UI change that is a little annoying. If you have a Wish List set up it will automatically put the recordings in a folder, even if there's only one recording. In the Now Playing list, the folder will be named by the search parameters first and they keywords last. For example:

AUDIO & VIDEO/ HDTV & "keywords"

As a result, you only see the first two letters of the keywords in the Now Playing list before it runs out of space. Once you open the folder the name of the program is listed as it was with the old software. I see no reason to put these recordings in a folder if there is only one recording that meets the search parameters.

... like I said, just a little annoying.


----------



## BBREAL

Do you mean on auto-record? I have not seen this.


----------



## PJO1966

BBREAL said:


> Do you mean on auto-record? I have not seen this.


Yes... I have two Auto-Record WishLists and they both appear this way.


----------



## drew2k

PJO1966 said:


> I've found a slight UI change that is a little annoying. If you have a Wish List set up it will automatically put the recordings in a folder, even if there's only one recording. In the Now Playing list, the folder will be named by the search parameters first and they keywords last. For example:
> 
> AUDIO & VIDEO/ HDTV & "keywords"
> 
> As a result, you only see the first two letters of the keywords in the Now Playing list before it runs out of space. Once you open the folder the name of the program is listed as it was with the old software. I see no reason to put these recordings in a folder if there is only one recording that meets the search parameters.
> 
> ... like I said, just a little annoying.


I don't think the one-item-in-folder behavior is unique to 6.3. The 6.2 non-HD DirecTiVo boxes did the same thing when recording from a wishlist.

However, when the 6.2 upgrade rolled out to the non-HD DirecTiVo boxes, it reorganized the wishlists to put the keyword or title BEFORE the category, so that the list was IMHO, better organized and it was easier to find something. (EX: "Nicole Kidman & AUDIO VIDEO/HDTV" and "Nicole Kidman & Drama" now appear next to each other in 6.2)

I'm hoping 6.3 included the same minor upgrade 6.2 had and it reordered the wishlists, but I'm guessing based on your folder title, it didn't. Bummer.

BTW .. still waiting patiently for 6.3 to hit EITHER of my boxes ...


----------



## Indiana627

I just got my HR10 this weekend and have not gotten the 6.3 update yet (which is fine). On my SD-DVR80 with 6.2 software, while watching a live show you can hit the skip to tick button and it will take you back to the beggining of the buffer, but when I tried this last night on the HR10 all I got was the Tivo bong sound and had to rewind through the whole 30 minute buffer. Has this feature been included in 6.3 for the HR10?


----------



## hiker

Indiana627 said:


> I just got my HR10 this weekend and have not gotten the 6.3 update yet (which is fine). On my SD-DVR80 with 6.2 software, while watching a live show you can hit the skip to tick button and it will take you back to the beggining of the buffer, but when I tried this last night on the HR10 all I got was the Tivo bong sound and had to rewind through the whole 30 minute buffer. Has this feature been included in 6.3 for the HR10?


Try hitting the REW first then the jump (skip) button. When FF thru the live buffer I don't think skip to tick will work but will take you to the end of buffer.


----------



## Indiana627

No I know it works on my SD Tivo with the 6.2 software. If you're watching live you simply hit the skip to tick button once and it will go to the beggining of the buffer. Hit it again and it will go to the end of the buffer. Wondering if this will be the same in 6.3 on the HR10?


----------



## wmcbrine

RoyGBiv said:


> There is only one feature I am really interested in. Does the new software allow a "full" mode. for a 4:3 SD image. That is, right now you can either show it with "panels" i.e. with gray or black side bars, or without panels, i.e. "stretched." I would like to be able to use a full mode which would zoom the pictcure to fill the screen side to side but keeping the same A/R and cutting off some of the top and bottom. Can the 6.3 software do this? This to me is a no-brainer feature that I can't believe no one seems to care about.


Yeah, that's a "Zoom" mode, not "Full". ("Full" is stretched.) It's in the Series 3 -- a third mode for the Ratio button, now relabelled as Aspect -- but didn't make it into 6.3. It might even be that it's done in hardware on the S3, and the hardware in the HR10-250 doesn't support that mode. Either way, 6.3 is probably the last software update for the HR10-250, so I think we're out of luck. I'll have to continue using my TV's zoom mode (for which I have to switch to 480i).

I don't know why you think that no one cares about this.

If it's not a hardware limitation, I wonder if the Series 3 software (8.0) could run on the HR10-250. (I doubt it, but 4.0 worked on the HDVR2.) Or some combination of elements from 8.0 and 6.3...


----------



## pipes

Long time lurker, first time poster...

Does the 6.3 update add USB network functionality to the HR10-250?


----------



## litzdog911

pipes said:


> Long time lurker, first time poster...
> 
> Does the 6.3 update add USB network functionality to the HR10-250?


Nope.


----------



## cheer

wmcbrine said:


> If it's not a hardware limitation, I wonder if the Series 3 software (8.0) could run on the HR10-250. (I doubt it, but 4.0 worked on the HDVR2.) Or some combination of elements from 8.0 and 6.3...


I'm almost certain this wouldn't work -- there are so many hardware differences. (Whereas the S2 SA Tivos and S2 DTivos were almost identical, hardware-wise.)

But I may just try switching to 480i and then using my TV to do it. Not uber-convenient, but workable.


----------



## BBREAL

Indiana627 said:


> No I know it works on my SD Tivo with the 6.2 software. If you're watching live you simply hit the skip to tick button once and it will go to the beggining of the buffer. Hit it again and it will go to the end of the buffer. Wondering if this will be the same in 6.3 on the HR10?


It does. I'm glad you asked.


----------



## wmcbrine

I won't swear to it, but I believe the grey pillarbox bars are a lighter shade in 6.3. You can see it best by going from a pillarboxed channel to Standby -- the shade used for the Standby screen is darker (the original color of the sidebars, I think). In 3.1.5d, IIRC, there was no visible change in the sidebars when going to Standby.


----------



## Jeanesco

stevel said:


> Well, that seems to be what I read over at the "deals" place. I don't know first-hand, though. It does appear that TiVo removed a lot of the network code that had been present but disabled in 6.1/6.2.


I am absolutely 100% certain that HME is *completely* intact and fully functioning in 6.3. MRV and TTG are a different story however. I am not sure where you read about this at the "deals" place, but I have made a post there on this subject.


----------



## BryanCPA

mwl001 said:


> I got 6.3 on Friday, and love what it offered -- increased speed and folders. I have a couple of issues, and just want to see if anyone else has seen them.
> 
> 1. My OTA signal strength meters no longer work. When I say this, I mean JUST the meters. I still get HD OTA reception (as good if not better than before), and when I go to the "System Test" option, a signal strength percentage shows up there. For various reasons (refurb replacement or HR20, waiting again for 6.3, trying to dump local phone line) I may not contact DirecTV about this problem, and certainly won't let them take my current unit if this is the only thing wrong with it.
> 2. When I switch among HD channels, I get the "searching for antenna signal" box every time, only for a moment, then the channel tunes. It doesn't bug me, but it didn't happen before and I'm wondering if it's related to above or a separate issue, or just part of the update.
> 
> Here is the only other thing I can think of -- I set up my system with a cheap RCA omnidirectional antenna, but switched to a Silver Sensor last week before the upgrade. I'm 4.5 miles from the antennas -- could I have fried the signal strength meter? I didn't think it was separate from the tuners, which still work great. Secondarily, I guess if there is a cheap way to check signal strength/accuracy via a third party meter, that will probably be more accurate than the HR10's anyway -- are these available, and what do they cost?
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike


I'm getting the "searching for signal" message too with 6.3 when changing channels, not every time but frequently. I've also noticed that changing channels is slower than before the upgrade which seems to be related to this issue.


----------



## djb61230

Jeanesco said:


> I am absolutely 100% certain that HME is *completely* intact and fully functioning in 6.3. MRV and TTG are a different story however. I am not sure where you read about this at the "deals" place, but I have made a post there on this subject.


That would be great news if HME is included and can be turned on. I've always hesitated to hack my box since it did cost me 1k. Now that it's older and if I could use it for running some HME apps I have considered writing, I'll probably hack it when all the dust settles with 6.3.


----------



## LlamaLarry

BryanCPA said:


> I'm getting the "searching for signal" message too with 6.3 when changing channels, not every time but frequently. I've also noticed that changing channels is slower than before the upgrade which seems to be related to this issue.


I also see this now, may have been there all along after the upgrade and I did not notice. Happens ~50% of the time. Station always comes in, but the brief flash is a little unnerving.


----------



## Redux

cheer said:


> He's not the only source at all, but I don't think anyone is certain.


While he did say "seems," I thought he was being more definitive than what you and the others have been saying, and I was just curious as to whether he really knew anything.

I certainly didn't mean to imply he had superior credentials to your own or anyone else's, I was just asking.


----------



## FriscoJoe

mwl001 said:


> 1. My OTA signal strength meters no longer work. When I say this, I mean JUST the meters. I still get HD OTA reception (as good if not better than before), and when I go to the "System Test" option, a signal strength percentage shows up there. For various reasons (refurb replacement or HR20, waiting again for 6.3, trying to dump local phone line) I may not contact DirecTV about this problem, and certainly won't let them take my current unit if this is the only thing wrong with it.
> 2. When I switch among HD channels, I get the "searching for antenna signal" box every time, only for a moment, then the channel tunes. It doesn't bug me, but it didn't happen before and I'm wondering if it's related to above or a separate issue, or just part of the update.


I see the same thing for #2. No big deal.

On a note related to #1, I seem to have lost Fox and UPN (was UPN now an independent) OTA. The signal meter shows very weak signal and I get no picture. This seems to have happened at very close to the same time as the upgrade. Has anyone else seen this problem? Would a reboot or rescan possibly correct it? I'm holding out hope...


----------



## eengert

If some of the issues being noted here and in the DD 5.1 audio dropout thread, then D* has good reason to halt the rollout and get back to work on the code. Many are clamouring for D* to continue the rollout for those not affected by the 72.5 sat situation, but it appears that there are other bugs in the update that need to be addressed. I hope they fix them soon - this isn't leaving a very good impression.

On a related note, if you have an unhacked box and you received the update and wanted to rollback, is there a way to do it? I was wondering if resetting to the defaults would do it, but then you'd lose your recordings and season passes, correct? Fortunately, I'm not in that situation, but it would be good to know anyway.


----------



## JoeSchueller

I don't use DD and I don't use 72.5. My opinion (selfishly) differs from yours. In my mind, 6.3 is a bug fix for the abhorrent performance. D* knows I have no use for 72.5 and I would very much appreciate at least the option to install it ASAP.


----------



## eengert

JoeSchueller said:


> I don't use DD and I don't use 72.5. My opinion (selfishly) differs from yours. In my mind, 6.3 is a bug fix for the abhorrent performance. D* knows I have no use for 72.5 and I would very much appreciate at least the option to install it ASAP.


6.3 can't be classified as a bug fix - it is an enhancement or upgrade. But even those two 6.3 bugs (potential bugs) that you mentioned aren't the only concerns (even if D* had some way to telepathically predict who doesn't use DD). Some of the reports state that even if you don't use DD there are audio dropouts. Now we're receiving multiple reports of a "signal not found" message momentarily when switching channels. Obviously they can't continue to rollout a product that has that many question marks. If all of these are truly bugs, then they clearly did an absolutely horrible job of testing, but that's a different topic.


----------



## pdawg17

eengert said:


> 6.3 can't be classified as a bug fix - it is an enhancement or upgrade. But even those two 6.3 bugs (potential bugs) that you mentioned aren't the only concerns (even if D* had some way to telepathically predict who doesn't use DD). Some of the reports state that even if you don't use DD there are audio dropouts. Now we're receiving multiple reports of a "signal not found" message momentarily when switching channels. Obviously they can't continue to rollout a product that has that many question marks. If all of these are truly bugs, then they clearly did an absolutely horrible job of testing, but that's a different topic.


I wonder though if they'll even bother fixing these other issues or just the satellite one...


----------



## newsposter

JoeSchueller said:


> I don't use DD and I don't use 72.5. My opinion (selfishly) differs from yours. In my mind, 6.3 is a bug fix for the abhorrent performance. D* knows I have no use for 72.5 and I would very much appreciate at least the option to install it ASAP.


I concur wholeheartedly. ANY speed up is worth it at this point. Reorganizing the SP this year has taken me a long time. have to wait until they get in the guide then redo it all. Major time wasted.


----------



## eengert

newsposter said:


> I concur wholeheartedly. ANY speed up is worth it at this point. Reorganizing the SP this year has taken me a long time. have to wait until they get in the guide then redo it all. Major time wasted.


It's worth audio potential audio dropouts (DD or PCM) and a momentary "signal not found" message when switching channels? I guess I don't agree. In fact, had D* not halted the rollout, I was going to keep my machine from being updated until they acknowledged a fix for the audio dropout problem or it was somehow determined to affect only specific users and wouldn't affect me. Given the current state of the new version, how could D* allow it to go out to anyone else? They'd have to have a signup sheet or something and then flag your account. Maybe that's possible - I don't know. But I bet they wouldn't do it if they could because they wouldn't want to deal with the potential support calls if one of the 3 or 4+ potential bugs affected you and you started calling tech support. Working in IT myself, that's exactly how I would look at this situation. Instead of spending time and energy and money trying to figure out some small subset of the user group who wants it and then dealing with the potential extra support calls, you just stop rollout, spend the time fixing the problem ASAP, then rollout the new version.

But I think we can all agree on one thing...this should've been tested more thoroughly to begin with and we may have avoided this unfortunate situation.


----------



## JoeSchueller

Exactly... I don't channel surf, I don't use DD and I don't use 72.5. I'd sign any waiver they'd give me just to get the *speed*! The performance of a 3.5 HR10 is far more aggravating than the known bugs listed on this site.

Eric... when you say ASAP, keep in mind D* and/or TiVo has been sitting on this for a LONG time.


----------



## eengert

JoeSchueller said:


> Exactly... I don't channel surf, I don't use DD and I don't use 72.5. I'd sign any waiver they'd give me just to get the *speed*! The performance of a 3.5 HR10 is far more aggravating than the known bugs listed on this site.
> 
> Eric... when you say ASAP, keep in mind D* and/or TiVo has been sitting on this for a LONG time.


Point taken. I'm just saying, given the current situation, if I were responsible for the decision at D*, I would halt the rollout completely as they've done. I just wouldn't be willing to deal with the headaches of supporting several different software versions simultaneously. They do a staggered rollout for a reason...and unfortunately, we found out why.

I'm as disappointed as everyone else to not have it. I'm not at all a TIVO enthusiast and I abhor the slowness of the guide and menus, etc. Even 6.3 doesn't speed up the guide to a completely acceptable standard, assuming it's similar to 6.1 or 6.2 on the SD boxes. But at the same time, I don't want an update that's going to cause multiple other problems and annoyances. I know you keep saying that you don't use DD, but it's not yet clear if that is the only scenario for the dropouts. What would you say if D* allowed you to have this version and then you found out that you lost audio for 20-30 secs 4-5 times during a 1-hour program? I think you'd be unhappy, and D* doesn't want to deal with that scenario. They've already got enough problems.


----------



## gybk

I really was hoping that along with folders would come the one click deletion feature since the files end up in the deleted folder. DANG... (Sorry for my french)


----------



## JoeSchueller

Eric - Touche. I'm not completely in disagreement, just fed up with the HR10. I've felt like I paid good money to be D*'s beta tester for the last year, so what's another few weeks until they figure this out. You're right, the audio performance you describe would suck royally, but we've heard enough people saying they're enjoying the 6.3 upgrade, I can't imagine it affects all audio sources/outputs, so I think there are viable workarounds.

I agree, stopping it is smart. To be clear, they're supporting 2 versions until it is done. I only wish they'd provide a facility where I could put some sort of service or ID number into a site and let it authorize my HR10 to download and install. If it turned my HR10 into a doorstop (moreso than it already is), I think I'd just ask for an HR20 at that point and keep the HR10 to hack to pieces later.

I realize this may be a contrary opinion, but I'd love to see D* provide the option. And yes, I understand this will NEVER happen - just wishful thinking.


----------



## gybk

I have had the upgrade for at least a week, and everything works fine. Folders are great, and It is definitely way faster moving in the menus and working in season pass manager which seems to be many times faster compared to the long waits before. This upgrade was the minimum to make the unit fun to work with again.

I suppose I'll wait for the dust to settle and then see if we can get networking going and HME.

----------------------------------------------
Hughes HR10-250 - 69/500 Hrs
Pioneer DVR-57H DVD-RW - 80 hrs
Philips DSR6000 - 120 hrs
Philips PTV100 - 100hrs (First TiVo, bought first day, still in use)


----------



## litzdog911

gybk said:


> I have had the upgrade for at least a week, and everything works fine. Folders are great, and It is definitely way faster moving in the menus and working in season pass manager which seems to be many times faster compared to the long waits before. This upgrade was the minimum to make the unit fun to work with again.
> 
> ....


Thanks for helping those of us without 6.3 to feel real good


----------



## Pab Sungenis

gybk said:


> I really was hoping that along with folders would come the one click deletion feature since the files end up in the deleted folder. DANG... (Sorry for my french)


Deleted folder?

On 6.3?


----------



## mwl001

Some strange behavior from my HR10-250, may or may not have anything to do with 6.3....

Received 6.3 on Friday, as I mentioned before, only difference besides speed and folders was that my OTA signal meter was non-functional, and I get "searching for signal" momentarily on each OTA channel before it tunes in.

On Tuesday, I get home, and my wife mentions that 30 second skip needs to be enabled. That's strange, since she would not reset the unit, and there doesn't appear to have been a power outage (no storms, no flashing 12:00's in my house). Did the unit reset itself?

I get home yesterday, and for many hours (I believe at least 6) it was "trying to connect to DirecTV" over the phone. The line on the unit was busy, but it never finished what is was doing. I was still able to make and receive phone calls. I was concerned I might screw something up if I reset the unit, plus it was recording, so I waited until about 9 last night to reboot it. After that, it seems to be fine -- I even forced a call which worked. Not to mention, my OTA signal meter is back! I guess I'm mentioning this because it may be possible that D* is doing something behind the scenes to 6.3-upgraded units to test the fix, before continuing the roll-out. I'm not going to argue over whether that's what's happening or not, but thought with all the frustration people are having with the wait I would give a little FYI.


----------



## newsposter

wait a minute..there's a bug that makes turning the channel even slower?  I have no reason to ever surf but i guess if others do it's a bigger deal. Or do you mean the bug is even when tivo turns the channel to record?

is pcm just regular old audio? I dont turn on my stereo just for dolby and turned off dolby so i can listen to just regular tv.


----------



## stevel

PCM is digital stereo audio - same as a CD.


----------



## chris_h

JoeSchueller said:


> You're right, the audio performance you describe would suck royally, but we've heard enough people saying they're enjoying the 6.3 upgrade, I can't imagine it affects all audio sources/outputs, so I think there are viable workarounds.


Joe,

I have the upgrade, but I am not enjoying it due to the audio dropouts. It does affect all audio outputs, and the PCM workaround does not work for me. If you know of any viable workarounds I am all ears.


----------



## JoeSchueller

Chris, sorry to hear it. My post was based strictly on the basis that others were reporting success without audio dropouts. My assumption, therefore, was that between HDMI, optical, or analog outputs, I could get one of them working. You are the first person I've read that has not been able to get ANY output working properly. What is D* offering to do for you?


----------



## chris_h

Another thing I noticed with the 6.3 upgrade is that the response to the remote is slower. At first, I thought "thats okay, I will just retrain my finger to not hit the FF button so quick three times" so no big deal. Just a little inconvenience. Then I discovered that my 20 step closed captioning on/off macros are no longer functional, probably due to the need to add pauses. Fooey.

I have also noticed a few odd things while in the todo list. When I deleted a program, it took me back to the top of the todo list, instead of continuing where I left off. I think it was in the middle of rebuilding the todo list, but I am not sure.


----------



## chris_h

JoeSchueller said:


> Chris, sorry to hear it. My post was based strictly on the basis that others were reporting success without audio dropouts. My assumption, therefore, was that between HDMI, optical, or analog outputs, I could get one of them working. You are the first person I've read that has not been able to get ANY output working properly. What is D* offering to do for you?


 Per my posts in the audio drop-out thread, when the audio goes away it goes out on both optical and analog outputs, and it is repeatable (a record issue, not a playback issue). My TV does not have an HDMI input, so no joy there.

I have not asked D* for anything. I just want it fixed. I am already in the middle of my 6 months of a bunch of free stuff.


----------



## LlamaLarry

6.3a no longer halts the SPS9S clock when the program is paused.


----------



## altan

So... you have it installed?

... Altan


----------



## TonyD79

LlamaLarry said:


> 6.3a no longer halts the SPS9S clock when the program is paused.


Mine doesn't stop on 3.1.5f. Just tried it.


----------



## stevel

The point was that the original 6.3 update DID stop the clock. 6.3a does not.


----------



## opie

I had folders for a while, now I can't find them. Could they have rolled me back until the update is fixed?


----------



## Anubys

opie said:


> I had folders for a while, now I can't find them. Could they have rolled me back until the update is fixed?


maybe you have to turn them on (might have reset to folders off)...


----------



## gregftlaud

u guys that have been upgraded keep mentioning that the "guide" is alot faster. do u mean the dtv grid guide.....the tivo list guide, or both?

greg


----------



## newsposter

they mean the dtv grid...tivo guide has always been 'fast'


----------



## gdh030846

OK, I have an HR10-250 and just received the 6.3a download. I noticed at the end of the "credits" you will see a statement that "this product contains the Apple Bonjour network software and even points to a web site for the human readable version of the source code. I would almost think the network options would be contained in this version. What am I missing


----------



## stevel

TiVo code has contained the Bonjour stuff since 4.x. They added the acknowledgement in more recent releases. You're missing that the network options are disabled and, it's possible, key components may not be present. More complete discussion is elsewhere.


----------



## JimSpence

Okay, I just got the 6.3a upgrade and for the first time I have folders. I like them as it reduces the number of pages in the NPL. However, there is a weirdness that I noticed. With folders turned off you can use the ch +/- buttons to scroll through the descriptions. Specifically, if you display the description for the first show in your NPL, the ch - button will take you to the next one in the list. This is how it worked before the upgrade and on SD TiVos. Now, with folders turned on, this no longer works, unless you are looking inside a folder. Is this how it works for those that have folders with their SD TiVos?

I find with this upgrade that when a show is selected from the NPL it takes longer for the description to be displayed.

I use the TiVo style guide and there is not a significant speed increase in its display. So, when users mention guide speed they are talking about the grid guide. 

I like the new style for the channels you receive screen. It really helps having the channel description at the top of the screen. The Favorites selection is much cleaner, it allows you to do both the CYR and Favorites at the same time. 

All in all, I have no problems with this upgrade, yet!


----------



## newsposter

Well Jim gets his tivo after me and 6.3 before me....hmphhh!

I did see the non scroll thing in another thread. Guess we have to sacrifice something.


----------



## JimSpence

Sorry about that. It's all in who you know. In my case, nobody. 

No big deal with the scrolling. Just something different. I'll probably have folders turned off untill I get more recorded.

I wish I had it on my series one DVRs.


----------



## A.C.

TonyD79 said:


> Mine doesn't stop on 3.1.5f. Just tried it.


I've had 6.3a for a week or so now. A couple of nights ago I paused a show, and my clock stopped. As soon as I unpaused the clock started. I paused again and it continued. I'll look for it again.


----------



## Tom in OH

We just received 6.3 last night. The guide seems a little faster which is nice, but now the Now Playing List has lost all the station logos that used to show up on the right.


----------



## Anubys

Tom in OH said:


> We just received 6.3 last night. The guide seems a little faster which is nice, but now the Now Playing List has lost all the station logos that used to show up on the right.


what?! 

I'm hoping I will GET BACK the logos when I get the upgrade!


----------



## Tivogre

I lost logos after the upgrade... but I git them back with the first or second daily call after the upgrade.


----------



## newsposter

for those that used suggestions to monitor space....how different is it with the folders? Now, i like to tab to the bottom and see how many pages of suggestions i have to monitor space. Same deal except they are all in a folder now??


----------



## DrBunsen

Most of us have dual leads going to our TiVo's, me included, but only to my main system. Unfortunately the HDTiVo in our bedroom was near a single cable outlet that had been installed when the house was built. I've been meaning to run a 2nd line in order to activate dual tuners, but hadn't gotten 'round to it. But now it might not be worth the hassle (at least over the short term).

They activated dual tuner capability over one cable with v6.3a!

OK, here's what's going on.... I have 1 cable going to the HR10. Satellite and OTA are diplexed on the cable. With v3.1.5f if you tell the setup that you only have a single satellite lead you can only record a single show at a time, even if you have 2 signals coming in (OTA and satellite). With v6.3a I now have dual tuner capability mixed between 2 OTA signals and 1 satellite. Very very cool indeed for those of us with a single cable running into an out-of-the-way place.

For that particular TiVo that's a bigger deal for me than the speedup, and the speedup is a very big deal indeed.


Bunsen


----------



## hiker

DrBunsen said:


> Most of us have dual leads going to our TiVo's, me included, but only to my main system. Unfortunately the HDTiVo in our bedroom was near a single cable outlet that had been installed when the house was built. I've been meaning to run a 2nd line in order to activate dual tuners, but hadn't gotten 'round to it. But now it might not be worth the hassle (at least over the short term).
> 
> They activated dual tuner capability over one cable with v6.3a!
> 
> OK, here's what's going on.... I have 1 cable going to the HR10. Satellite and OTA are diplexed on the cable. With v3.1.5f if you tell the setup that you only have a single satellite lead you can only record a single show at a time, even if you have 2 signals coming in (OTA and satellite). With v6.3a I now have dual tuner capability mixed between 2 OTA signals and 1 satellite. Very very cool indeed for those of us with a single cable running into an out-of-the-way place.
> 
> For that particular TiVo that's a bigger deal for me than the speedup, and the speedup is a very big deal indeed.
> 
> Bunsen


Are you saying that you can record 2 satellite programs at a time? Don't think that is technically possible. Did you rerun guided setup and specify 2 satellite connections?


----------



## DrBunsen

No, I can't record 2 programs at once from satellite, but I can now record 2 programs at once from the mix of 1 satellite signal and 2 OTA signals. On that HR10 the mixture of SPs is about 80% OTA programming and 20% satellite, so I suddenly find myself with little need to go through the hassle of running a 2nd cable just to activate the 2nd satellite tuner.

I didn't rerun the guided setup.


Bunsen


----------



## FriscoJoe

DrBunsen said:


> I can now record 2 programs at once from the mix of 1 satellite signal and 2 OTA signals.


Interesting. So when you are recording a Sat program and watching live TV, what happens when you try to change channels? If trying to change to a Sat channel does it give you the standard option (Stop or Continue Recording)? If trying to change to an OTA channel does it work normally?


----------



## TonyD79

That is interesting.

How does it deal with dual buffers? I am having trouble figuring out the behavior.

As for other comments here:

- My SPS9S clock doesn't stop for real time. It does for recorded time (as it should)

- I have logos everywhere I should have them

- The Tivo style guide did speed up. It took about a day for it to happen but the listings do not rolldown anymore, they are instantaneous


A side note. The thing seems too fast for its own good at times. (not really complaining) but when I switch a tuner from satellite to OTA, I often get a signal not found message but the station tunes anyway. What I think is happening is that the timeout on tuning for the error message is coming up too fast while the signal locks in. Once the tuner is on OTA, I don't get the message. A bit disconcerting but not an issue at this point.

The best thing I have seen (other than folders and speed) is the little pause that would happen a second or two after switching buffers is gone. I had gotten used to it but it was a hiccup that gave me pause (no pun intended).


----------



## DrBunsen

FriscoJoe said:


> Interesting. So when you are recording a Sat program and watching live TV, what happens when you try to change channels? If trying to change to a Sat channel does it give you the standard option (Stop or Continue Recording)? If trying to change to an OTA channel does it work normally?


Hmmm... I'll have to try that. I suspect that you're right.

When I first noticed that dual tuners were available I was watching live TV on a satellite channel and I accidently hit the Live TV button. It took me to another satellite channel, but with no signal. I hit the button again and it look me back to the prior satellite channel, with the buffer intact. I then put 2 OTA signals onto the 2 tuner "slots", and then 1 satellite and 1 OTA to make sure that it was acting as it should.

I think that the only way to see what I originally did was to be tuned into a satellite channel and then reset the unit, which then gives me both tuner slots tuned to a single satellite channel, but with one of the slots inactive. You can retune a slot to another satellite channel and the original tuner slot will still be on the original channel, but inactive. Once you tune the 2nd slot to an OTA channel I think it stays OTA until a reset (have to test that though). At that point I believe it acts exactly as you think it will, buffers and all.

I'll play with it some more tonight to see if I can see any other twists with this new functionality.

Bunsen


----------



## DrBunsen

TonyD79 said:


> How does it deal with dual buffers? I am having trouble figuring out the behavior.


When the 2 tuner "slots" are tuned into valid channels dual buffers work as they should. When I first noticed that it was trying to tune to 2 satellite channels the active tuner had a buffer and the 2nd tuner didn't since it had no signal.

Once I tuned both slots to a valid tuner dual buffers worked as they should. The only thing I can't do tuner-wise is get signals from 2 satellite channels at once.

Bunsen


----------



## TonyD79

Do you get the satellite signal error message when the second tuner is on a channel it can't get because of the polarization clash?

Edit: BTW, it would be nicer if it knew that you have one SAT and the OTA and allowed only one SAT channel at a time. Then it would handle conflicts better. It is now hit-and-miss on if it will record two SAT channels at once.


----------



## DrBunsen

Yeah, your points are making me go "hmmmm...". I'll let you know!

But I will say that I'm pretty sure that once one of the tuner slots is occupied by an OTA channel it can't get back to a satellite channel on that tuner slot unless the other slot is using an OTA tuner. If so then it works as it should, and won't ever try to tune in 2 satellite channels at once.

The first effect I noticed (both tuner slots on satellite, but one inactive) is kinda related to how, on a normal HR10 with 2 satellite inputs attached, you can't force both tuner slots to the same channel (when you try it just switches you to the other tuner that's already on the destination channel), but the 2 tuners slots start off on the same channel after a reset.

So I think that they way that it works is that if I reset while on a satellite channel, both tuner slots are tuned to that last satellite channel, but with one at a blank screen with no buffer. Once you get the 2nd tuner slot to a valid channel (OTA, or to another satellite channel when the 1st tuner slot is OTA), then it all works properly with no conflicts. If I have an OTA channel as the active channel and reset the unit it'll come back up with both tuner slots tuned to that OTA channel.

But I'll test it tonight to be sure.


Bunsen


----------



## Tom in OH

Tivogre said:


> I lost logos after the upgrade... but I git them back with the first or second daily call after the upgrade.


Logos are back today.

Strange but only 1 of the HDTivos has accepted 6.3. The other one is still 3.1.5. They're both connected to same phone line.


----------



## hiker

Tom in OH said:


> Logos are back today.
> 
> Strange but only 1 of the HDTivos has accepted 6.3. The other one is still 3.1.5. They're both connected to same phone line.


It's not really strange but the controlled way they are rolling it out. They use some random or other method of matching on the TiVo service number. I have 8 HR10's and only two of them have taken the 6.3a upgrade naturally, one I forced to 6.3 when I replaced the hard drive and five still on 3.1.5f. I'm forcing 3-4 calls a day on each. I read somewhere that the date has slipped tp 10/19 when they will open the flood gates and give 6.3a to everyone.


----------



## Tom in OH

hiker said:


> It's not really strange but the controlled way they are rolling it out. They use some random or other method of matching on the TiVo service number. I have 8 HR10's and only two of them have taken the 6.3a upgrade naturally, one I forced to 6.3 when I replaced the hard drive and five still on 3.1.5f. I'm forcing 3-4 calls a day on each. I read somewhere that the date has slipped tp 10/19 when they will open the flood gates and give 6.3a to everyone.


Well that explains it. I feel better now... thx


----------



## ScottP461

Just got the 6.3a upgrade on 1 of my 2 HR10's last night and all went smoothly. One fix that hasn't been mentioned here yet from 3.1.5f; the problem with switching from PCM to DD (when starting playback of a recording with DD) that crashed the auto source switching on my receiver about 50% of the time (often with a blast of unmuted raw bitstream) hasn't happened since 6.3a was installed. I started playback of every recording on the machine with DD last night and it never failed to switch successfully. With all the reports of dropouts (which I haven't experienced so far, knock on wood), just thought I'd give a little positive DD feedback!


----------



## TonyD79

Interesting.

I turned suggestions on with folders and the titles say things like "That 70s Show: Punk Chick"

Now if they did that on the regular listings, that would be nice.


----------



## TallGuy

hiker said:


> It's not really strange but the controlled way they are rolling it out. They use some random or other method of matching on the TiVo service number. I have 8 HR10's and only two of them have taken the 6.3a upgrade naturally, one I forced to 6.3 when I replaced the hard drive and five still on 3.1.5f. I'm forcing 3-4 calls a day on each. I read somewhere that the date has slipped tp 10/19 when they will open the flood gates and give 6.3a to everyone.


OK, I want to hear more of that story. Is it 8 HD-TiVos in one house, with 8 HD displays? Hope you didn't pay $999 for each TiVo. I thought I enjoyed the HD-TiVo, but wow! Guess you have too much invested to ever leave D*!


----------



## hiker

TallGuy said:


> OK, I want to hear more of that story. Is it 8 HD-TiVos in one house, with 8 HD displays? Hope you didn't pay $999 for each TiVo. I thought I enjoyed the HD-TiVo, but wow! Guess you have too much invested to ever leave D*!


Yes, 8 HR10's all in one room, my home theater. Paid $899 for the first and $199-$350 each for the rest. And 9 flat panel HDTV's, 3 are plasmas and the rest are LCD's ranging in size from 26" to 50". We are huge sports fans and especially enjoy Sunday Ticket games where most Sundays we can watch all games concurrently.

Oh, and we just added a TiVo Series3 so we can view local sports in HD on network HD, FSN-HD BA and other national sports on InHD. I'm thankful that TiVo allows 9 sets of IR codes.

Also have Dish 622 mainly for the Voom HD,

I dread the day when (and if) D* forces us over to the HR20.


----------



## gregftlaud

ok i havent been in here in a few days......and i really dont feel like going thru ALL the posts....so what is the update on the audio dropouts (even if u dont use dd and have it set to pcm)? any fix on the way?


----------



## sluciani

TonyD79 said:


> A side note. The thing seems too fast for its own good at times. (not really complaining) but when I switch a tuner from satellite to OTA, I often get a signal not found message but the station tunes anyway. What I think is happening is that the timeout on tuning for the error message is coming up too fast while the signal locks in. Once the tuner is on OTA, I don't get the message. A bit disconcerting but not an issue at this point.


I'm seeing this same behavior on one of my 3.15f units, so I'm not sure it's a 6.3 bug. Started about a week ago.

/steve


----------



## gregftlaud

that searching for signal glitch started for me ONLY after the 6.3a upgrade


----------



## Anubys

gregftlaud said:


> ok i havent been in here in a few days......and i really dont feel like going thru ALL the posts....so what is the update on the audio dropouts (even if u dont use dd and have it set to pcm)? any fix on the way?


maybe we don't feel like telling you! 

no update...some people have the dropout, many don't...the majority of people don't have 6.3a and getting more impatient by the minute...nothing new!


----------



## JEDeG

I received the 6.3a upgrade on 10/4. No problems at all. Had some audio drops before the upgrade. Still have noticed an occasional drop, but much much less than with the former 3.1.f, indicating there may be a basic issue that is not related to the new 6.3a.


----------



## TallGuy

hiker said:


> Yes, 8 HR10's all in one room, my home theater. Paid $899 for the first and $199-$350 each for the rest. And 9 flat panel HDTV's, 3 are plasmas and the rest are LCD's ranging in size from 26" to 50". We are huge sports fans and especially enjoy Sunday Ticket games where most Sundays we can watch all games concurrently.
> 
> Oh, and we just added a TiVo Series3 so we can view local sports in HD on network HD, FSN-HD BA and other national sports on InHD. I'm thankful that TiVo allows 9 sets of IR codes.
> 
> Also have Dish 622 mainly for the Voom HD.


Holy crap. I thought I had a lot of remotes!


----------



## hiker

TallGuy said:


> Holy crap. I thought I had a lot of remotes!


LOL. Only one remote, URC MX-3000.


----------



## gregftlaud

any word yet on an audio fix?


----------



## DrBunsen

More info on the dual tuner slots being activated with v6.3a....

I was incorrect about my previous post where I said that I thought that it wouldn't let me tune to a satellite channel on one of the tuner slots if already tuned to a satellite channel on the other slot. I can do that, but all I get is just a blank screen. No message, no buffer or anything. If I hit the record button I get the error "bonk" sound. And if I have a recording going or scheduled on a satellite channel and try to schedule something at the same time it tells me that there's a conflict.

So, except for the slight weirdness when trying to a satellite channel on one slot when already tuned to a satellite channel on the other slot, everything works fine.

I'm very pleased that they added this enhancement. 


Bunsen


----------



## sluciani

DrBunsen said:


> More info on the dual tuner slots being activated with v6.3a....
> 
> I was incorrect about my previous post where I said that I thought that it wouldn't let me tune to a satellite channel on one of the tuner slots if already tuned to a satellite channel on the other slot. I can do that, but all I get is just a blank screen. No message, no buffer or anything. If I hit the record button I get the error "bonk" sound. And if I have a recording going or scheduled on a satellite channel and try to schedule something at the same time it tells me that there's a conflict.
> 
> So, except for the slight weirdness when trying to a satellite channel on one slot when already tuned to a satellite channel on the other slot, everything works fine.
> 
> I'm very pleased that they added this enhancement.
> 
> Bunsen


I'm out of town, so can't check, but I just want to make sure I understand how you have the unit set up, since I, too, have one HR10 with only a single sat feed.

You have the unit configured for one satellite, but you can record from both tuners?

Right now I have my 3.15f unit configured for two tuners, even though there's only one, and that allows me to do two OTA recordings simultaneously. I just have to be careful to schedule two sat recordings at the same time.

Will your way ensure that I can't make that mistake? Have you tested all situations? TIA.

/steve


----------



## SD493

sluciani said:


> I'm out of town, so can't check, but I just want to make sure I understand how you have the unit set up, since I, too, have one HR10 with only a single sat feed.
> 
> You have the unit configured for one satellite, but you can record from both tuners?
> 
> Right now I have my 3.15f unit configured for two tuners, even though there's only one, and that allows me to do two OTA recordings simultaneously. I just have to be careful to schedule two sat recordings at the same time.
> 
> Will your way ensure that I can't make that mistake? Have you tested all situations? TIA.
> 
> /steve


I only have 1 sat line in and only one tuner (sat/OTA) enabled. After 6.3 I noticed that I could record an OTA channel and watch a sat channel (or visa versa)--but only briefly. When an OTA channel is recording the sat channels go blank--only a grey screen. Apparently what is happening is that when at OTA recording begins the HD Tivo goes to the OTA tuner that I do not have enabled, so the OTA channels are active but not the sat channels since their is no input. Would be great to use both tuners for OTA but now whenever an OTA channel starts recording I have to reboot my reciever after the recording is finished to get my sat channels back. Bummer. I've written D* with this issue. I wonder if they beta tested 6.3 before they released it. Doesn't seem like it.


----------



## A.C.

I've noticed something that's happen twice now since I've had 6.3a. What's happening is that even though I've got folders turned on, the NPL reverts back to sorting the normal way. I have to then go back in and change it to use folders. When I get a chance I'll look through the kernal log and see if I see anything odd. Is there anywhere else I should look?


----------



## parzec

rminsk said:


> This is not a bug but a design feature. When DirecTV adds a channel the receiver adds it to the channels you receive in case you may want it. DirecTV keeps dropping and re-adding the shopping channels.


With "features" like these, who needs bugs


----------



## fasTLane

parzec said:


> With "features" like these, who needs bugs


   LOFL!!!


----------



## reubenray

Apparently I got the update over the weekend. The first thing I noticed was I have lost my favorite channels. I have tried several times to redo them, but the setting does not stay.

Any ideas?


----------



## LlamaLarry

A.C. said:


> I've noticed something that's happen twice now since I've had 6.3a. What's happening is that even though I've got folders turned on, the NPL reverts back to sorting the normal way. I have to then go back in and change it to use folders. When I get a chance I'll look through the kernal log and see if I see anything odd. Is there anywhere else I should look?


Check your uptime too, I don't know if the grouping setting is persistant, but would kind of be surprised if it were not.

That is an interesting one that, thankfully, I have not run into.


----------



## DrBunsen

sluciani said:


> I'm out of town, so can't check, but I just want to make sure I understand how you have the unit set up, since I, too, have one HR10 with only a single sat feed.
> 
> You have the unit configured for one satellite, but you can record from both tuners?
> 
> Right now I have my 3.15f unit configured for two tuners, even though there's only one, and that allows me to do two OTA recordings simultaneously. I just have to be careful to schedule two sat recordings at the same time.
> 
> Will your way ensure that I can't make that mistake? Have you tested all situations? TIA.
> 
> /steve


Well, there's more to the story, mostly bad....

I definitely have it set up for a single satellite in, and even ran through the guided setup again to be sure. But the information page would say that I had only 1 ATSC input active, even though I could have the 2 tuner slots tuned to different ATSC channels. In addition, I noticed these glitches:

1) If I had the active tuner slot tuned to a satellite channel and then had a SP start that wanted to record off of satellite, it would change the other tuner slot to the satellite channel for the SP and try to record. So nothing would record (not even an empty entry in the NP list), though the red light was on. So it was being polite by using the background tuner slot, but because there was no satellite input available it hosed the recording.

2) I could tune the 2 tuner slots to different OTA channels and have separate buffers for each. But I couldn't record 2 OTA channels at once. If I hit record for the active tuner then it'd record, and the other tuner would still have its buffer. If I tried to record on that 2nd tuner it'd say that there was a conflict with the current recording and ask if I wanted to stop the current recording to record the show on this channel.

3) If I scheduled 2 OTA channels to record at the same time it would tell me that there was a conflict.

So since it was definitely messing up on me I did a reset of the unit early this morning. When it came back up it acted like it did before the upgrade - no switching back and forth between tuner slots. So, either it was just a glitch (in which case I need to go back and edit my earlier posts on the subject), or else it's a permutation of a glitch that I used to see after a reset with v3.1.5f where I couldn't use the Live TV button to switch between tuners for a bit of time after a reset.

I'll check it again when I get home tonight. I suspect that I'll be running that 2nd cable after all.

Bunsen


----------



## sluciani

DrBunsen said:


> Well, there's more to the story, mostly bad....
> 
> I definitely have it set up for a single satellite in, and even ran through the guided setup again to be sure. But the information page would say that I had only 1 ATSC input active, even though I could have the 2 tuner slots tuned to different ATSC channels. In addition, I noticed these glitches:
> 
> 1) If I had the active tuner slot tuned to a satellite channel and then had a SP start that wanted to record off of satellite, it would change the other tuner slot to the satellite channel for the SP and try to record. So nothing would record (not even an empty entry in the NP list), though the red light was on. So it was being polite by using the background tuner slot, but because there was no satellite input available it hosed the recording.
> 
> 2) I could tune the 2 tuner slots to different OTA channels and have separate buffers for each. But I couldn't record 2 OTA channels at once. If I hit record for the active tuner then it'd record, and the other tuner would still have its buffer. If I tried to record on that 2nd tuner it'd say that there was a conflict with the current recording and ask if I wanted to stop the current recording to record the show on this channel.
> 
> 3) If I scheduled 2 OTA channels to record at the same time it would tell me that there was a conflict.
> 
> So since it was definitely messing up on me I did a reset of the unit early this morning. When it came back up it acted like it did before the upgrade - no switching back and forth between tuner slots. So, either it was just a glitch (in which case I need to go back and edit my earlier posts on the subject), or else it's a permutation of a glitch that I used to see after a reset with v3.1.5f where I couldn't use the Live TV button to switch between tuners for a bit of time after a reset.
> 
> I'll check it again when I get home tonight. I suspect that I'll be running that 2nd cable after all.
> 
> Bunsen


You might try configuring for two SAT lines and just be careful not to schedule two SAT recordings at once. This should allow two simultaneous OTA recordings, no?

I'm still out of town, so if you should test it set up that way, I'd appreciate hearing the results. TIA.

/steve


----------



## BrettStah

sluciani said:


> You might try configuring for two SAT lines and just be careful not to schedule two SAT recordings at once. This should allow two simultaneous OTA recordings, no?


No. You'd have no way of guaranteeing that the "good" input was used for SAT recording.


----------



## KSbugeater

There is one way to ensure the "good" input was used for SAT... before you leave the house, tune the "good" input to the channel your SAT program is on, then switch tuners. Then the background tuner is the "good" input. Again, you still have to be sure that no SAT programs are opposite each other. 

This is how I have my HR10 set up: tell it there are 2 SAT inputs, but I only have one hooked up. Then I get the use of both OTA tuners. I must disclose that I have 2 SAT lines running to my new HR20 (since its OTAs aren't enabled yet, an unconnected tuner is worthless) so between 2 SAT tuners, 1 OTA, and 1 flexible tuner I should pretty much be able to resolve any conflicts. I should note that I had to turn Suggestions OFF or else TiVo would be switching tuners to SAT channels and foiling my workaround of "leave it on the SAT channel to be recorded later".


----------



## SD493

DrBunsen said:


> Well, there's more to the story, mostly bad....
> 
> I definitely have it set up for a single satellite in, and even ran through the guided setup again to be sure. But the information page would say that I had only 1 ATSC input active, even though I could have the 2 tuner slots tuned to different ATSC channels. In addition, I noticed these glitches:
> 
> 1) If I had the active tuner slot tuned to a satellite channel and then had a SP start that wanted to record off of satellite, it would change the other tuner slot to the satellite channel for the SP and try to record. So nothing would record (not even an empty entry in the NP list), though the red light was on. So it was being polite by using the background tuner slot, but because there was no satellite input available it hosed the recording.
> 
> 2) I could tune the 2 tuner slots to different OTA channels and have separate buffers for each. But I couldn't record 2 OTA channels at once. If I hit record for the active tuner then it'd record, and the other tuner would still have its buffer. If I tried to record on that 2nd tuner it'd say that there was a conflict with the current recording and ask if I wanted to stop the current recording to record the show on this channel.
> 
> 3) If I scheduled 2 OTA channels to record at the same time it would tell me that there was a conflict.
> 
> So since it was definitely messing up on me I did a reset of the unit early this morning. When it came back up it acted like it did before the upgrade - no switching back and forth between tuner slots. So, either it was just a glitch (in which case I need to go back and edit my earlier posts on the subject), or else it's a permutation of a glitch that I used to see after a reset with v3.1.5f where I couldn't use the Live TV button to switch between tuners for a bit of time after a reset.
> 
> I'll check it again when I get home tonight. I suspect that I'll be running that 2nd cable after all.
> 
> Bunsen


I have only one sat in and mine was doing the same thing as yours. When recording OTA it would revert to the second tuner without the sat input and I would lose my sat channels. Apparently, there was a fix sent down last night
because today mine is back to normal. So far, that is the only problem I have had with 6.3 (no audio drop outs or problems with recording), so, I'am a happy camper with the speed improvment for setting up or modifiying season passes and in setting up single recordings.


----------



## A.C.

LlamaLarry said:


> Check your uptime too, I don't know if the grouping setting is persistant, but would kind of be surprised if it were not.
> 
> That is an interesting one that, thankfully, I have not run into.


That was my first thought, that the box had rebooted, but it hadn't.


----------



## sluciani

BrettStah said:


> No. You'd have no way of guaranteeing that the "good" input was used for SAT recording.


Makes sense. But it should guarantee two simultaneous OTA recordings, if someone could live with that. /s


----------



## SD493

sluciani said:


> Makes sense. But it should guarantee two simultaneous OTA recordings, if someone could live with that. /s


It appears that 6.3 tried to add that functionality (to use both OTA tuners even if there was only one sat input) but while it accomplished that it also led to loss of sat channels. Would be great if they could work the bugs out and add the ability to use both OTA tuners with only one sat input (I know there is a work around now but it has some big drawbacks).


----------



## leesweet

I'll note this here since this is a popular thread and I saw this point somewhere else but can't find it now. If you didn't know, you'd think you were crazy until you discovered this:

For those that program their own remote controls (URCs, All-in-Ones, etc.), the 'Menu' button now for 6.3 has to be programmed as the 'Tivo' button, where for 3.1.5 it was the 'Menu' (or the'Tivo' worked also?). No idea why they would change it. But, if you had it set to 'Menu' and got 6.3, you would think you were in deep kimchi!


----------



## JoeSchueller

Could you please clarify? You're saying that your universal remote (in my case, my Harmony 680) sends the same command it used to send to 3.5f, and it now produces different behavior on 6.3a?

That's wild. I'll have to check how I have the menu button on my Harmony set up. I know I have "exit" mapped to "live TV" and I have the stop button mapped to "list." I just can't remember if I had menu mapped to the TiVo button or not.

So before you figured this out, you'd press the menu button on your universal and it did nothing? The 6.3a software doesn't respond to that former command at all?


----------



## SD493

I had an OTA program set to begin recording at 7:00 p.m. (central). I was in another room on the computer. I had the TV on one of the music channels. At 7:00 I expected to hear the program I had set to record start (I only have one sat
line in so only one tuner enabled). When I didn't hear the program start I went into the other room to check on it. The Tivo was still on the sat channel but the recorder was recording the OTA channel. I switched to the OTA channel and back to the sat channel--the sat channel was still there. I checked other sat channels to be sure and they were all still there--no grey screen. When 6.3 came this functionality was implemented without success. My unit (and others I assume) were reverted back to not being able to use both OTA tuners with only one sat input (and insure that all sat recordings were made). It looks like they may have fixed the problem and sent the fix down this afternoon. I may be reading too much into it, but earlier it wasn't working, the units reverted back and now it is working--at least for me. I haven't tried recording a sat channel and an OTA channel at the same time yet but I assume that will work.


----------



## sluciani

SD493 said:


> I had an OTA program set to begin recording at 7:00 p.m. (central). I was in another room on the computer. I had the TV on one of the music channels. At 7:00 I expected to hear the program I had set to record start (I only have one sat
> line in so only one tuner enabled). When I didn't hear the program start I went into the other room to check on it. The Tivo was still on the sat channel but the recorder was recording the OTA channel. I switched to the OTA channel and back to the sat channel--the sat channel was still there. I checked other sat channels to be sure and they were all still there--no grey screen. When 6.3 came this functionality was implemented without success. My unit (and others I assume) were reverted back to not being able to use both OTA tuners with only one sat input (and insure that all sat recordings were made). It looks like they may have fixed the problem and sent the fix down this afternoon. I may be reading too much into it, but earlier it wasn't working, the units reverted back and now it is working--at least for me. I haven't tried recording a sat channel and an OTA channel at the same time yet but I assume that will work.


Similar findings. My single SAT input HR10 received 6.3a while I was away. It's configured for one sat line and, this morning, I forced a SAT recording on tuner one. I then switched to tuner 2 and tuned an OTA station. I was able to watch and spool the OTA station live, but when I tried to force a recording, I got a message saying the other recording would have to be cancelled. I then tried the same with two OTA recordings, same results. So it appears that 6.3a has the ability to dual-buffer OTA and SAT (and OTA and OTA) when only one SAT line is configured, but not to record both.

/steve


----------



## SD493

sluciani said:


> Similar findings. My single SAT input HR10 received 6.3a while I was away. It's configured for one sat line and, this morning, I forced a SAT recording on tuner one. I then switched to tuner 2 and tuned an OTA station. I was able to watch and spool the OTA station live, but when I tried to force a recording, I got a message saying the other recording would have to be cancelled. I then tried the same with two OTA recordings, same results. So it appears that 6.3a has the ability to dual-buffer OTA and SAT (and OTA and OTA) when only one SAT line is configured, but not to record both.
> 
> /steve


Thought it was fixed, but this morning I started getting the grey screen on sat channels. Apparently, it is totally random as to which tuner it switched to for the sat channles. Seems like they could configure the soft ware so that on sat channels it only went to the enabled tuner. But this time was different. There was no recording being done when it went to the grey screen. Looks like it is beginning to just arbitrarily pick a sat tuner. Sometimes it is the one that is enabled and other times it is not. I thought this was a feature (if it IS a planned feature and not just an unplanned "feature" that even the software engineers were not aware of) about 6.3 that had been fixed. Apparently, it is a feature that works correctly sometimes and other times not. I guess the only "fix" at this time is to get someone to come out and run a second line (when I got the HD Tivo I just picked it up at CC and hooked it up to my existing set up (one sat line and one OTA line). If cable in my area had a few more HD channels (mainly ESPN) that would be a no brainer.


----------



## DrBunsen

Well, I'm back to single tuner only use. The "dual tuner with single sat input" phase only lasted from the time that the inital 6.3a started working until I forced a reboot a couple days ago. I've reset it again since then and it's still doing the old 3.1.5f behavior.

Given the wonkiness of how it worked I guess I'm relieved that, at least on mine, it was a temporary thing. If it would've worked properly I would've been very happy with it.

For those of you who also found themselves with dual tuner support with one sat input: Does it survive a reboot?


Bunsen


----------



## SD493

DrBunsen said:


> Well, I'm back to single tuner only use. The "dual tuner with single sat input" phase only lasted from the time that the inital 6.3a started working until I forced a reboot a couple days ago. I've reset it again since then and it's still doing the old 3.1.5f behavior.
> 
> Given the wonkiness of how it worked I guess I'm relieved that, at least on mine, it was a temporary thing. If it would've worked properly I would've been very happy with it.
> 
> For those of you who also found themselves with dual tuner support with one sat input: Does it survive a reboot?
> 
> Bunsen


I've had to reboot several times to get my sat channels back. Everything is fine after reboot. The only problem is now it seems to just arbitrarily pick a tuner and 
I loose my sat channels when it goes to the tuner without the sat line in. The dual tuner support worked last night and things seemed fine this morning and all of a sudden (without making or attempting a recording) I got the gray screen for my sat channels. Hopefully, this will be the end of that problem. I get the feeling (after reading other threads about problems) that 6.3 is not ready for prime time.


----------



## leesweet

JoeSchueller said:


> Could you please clarify? You're saying that your universal remote (in my case, my Harmony 680) sends the same command it used to send to 3.5f, and it now produces different behavior on 6.3a?
> 
> That's wild. I'll have to check how I have the menu button on my Harmony set up. I know I have "exit" mapped to "live TV" and I have the stop button mapped to "list." I just can't remember if I had menu mapped to the TiVo button or not.
> 
> So before you figured this out, you'd press the menu button on your universal and it did nothing? The 6.3a software doesn't respond to that former command at all?


Well, almost exactly. The 'Menu' button on my URC-8910s was programmed to be the 'Menu' function. Under 3.1.5, that brought up the main screen (as did the Tivo/D* button on the peanut remote). Under 6.3a (never saw 6.3), that 'menu' function caused the "I'm receiving commands" light to flicker on the HR10, but it didn't do anything.

Before I reprogrammed the button to be 'Tivo', I noted that I did have the 'Tivo' command down there on the 'Swap' button for some reason and it works as it used to. It's just the 'Menu' function that doesn't work.

I assume this was discussed over at Rob's URC forums in gritty detail, but I've not had a chance to drop in there. I just wanted to post a reminder so people wouldn't think their HR10s had died totally (like some thought it did on the audio reconfig on the reboot...).

Would be interesting to see where along the food chain of releases 'Menu' and 'Tivo' were made to both *not* bring up the main screen...


----------



## sluciani

leesweet said:


> Well, almost exactly. The 'Menu' button on my URC-8910s was programmed to be the 'Menu' function. Under 3.1.5, that brought up the main screen (as did the Tivo/D* button on the peanut remote). Under 6.3a (never saw 6.3), that 'menu' function caused the "I'm receiving commands" light to flicker on the HR10, but it didn't do anything.
> 
> Before I reprogrammed the button to be 'Tivo', I noted that I did have the 'Tivo' command down there on the 'Swap' button for some reason and it works as it used to. It's just the 'Menu' function that doesn't work.
> 
> I assume this was discussed over at Rob's URC forums in gritty detail, but I've not had a chance to drop in there. I just wanted to post a reminder so people wouldn't think their HR10s had died totally (like some thought it did on the audio reconfig on the reboot...).
> 
> Would be interesting to see where along the food chain of releases 'Menu' and 'Tivo' were made to both *not* bring up the main screen...


It is odd. Since there is no "menu" button per se on the Tivo remote, the URC codes for Menu and Tivo should be the same. I am not aware of any "hidden" discrete codes for the Tivo that aren't accesible from the peanut remote. I could be wrong, however.

/steve


----------



## gfb107

The Menu button appeared only on the early DTiVo, and was only useful for the earliest versions of software, when there was a seperate menu for all DirecTV specific stuff. Ever since the DirecTV settings were merged into the rest of the TiVo UI, there has been no need for a Menu button. Recent DTiVo remotes haven't had a menu button, and the DirecTV button has sent the TiVo cmd. I guess they figure 6.3a is only meant for HR10-250, and since the HR10-250 remote doesn't have a menu button, there's no need to support the menu command.


----------



## leesweet

That's what I thought.. some reduction in commands as the software progressed... sure a shock for people upgrading who had used the Menu 'command' which did the same thing under 3.1.5, though!


----------



## SD493

SD493 said:


> I've had to reboot several times to get my sat channels back. Everything is fine after reboot. The only problem is now it seems to just arbitrarily pick a tuner and
> I loose my sat channels when it goes to the tuner without the sat line in. The dual tuner support worked last night and things seemed fine this morning and all of a sudden (without making or attempting a recording) I got the gray screen for my sat channels. Hopefully, this will be the end of that problem. I get the feeling (after reading other threads about problems) that 6.3 is not ready for prime time.


 I've started getting the message asking me if I'm sure I want to change the channel when I'm recording an OTA channel and try to switch the channel. This is back to the way it was. It seems the software doesn't recognize that only one tuner is enabled part of the time and then at times it does. It appears this is a bug in the software (or unplanned result) and not a planned feature. I wonder if 6.3 was tested with a unit with only one sat input--apparently not.


----------



## SD493

SD493 said:


> I've started getting the message asking me if I'm sure I want to change the channel when I'm recording an OTA channel and try to switch the channel. This is back to the way it was. It seems the software doesn't recognize that only one tuner is enabled part of the time and then at times it does. It appears this is a bug in the software (or unplanned result) and not a planned feature. I wonder if 6.3 was tested with a unit with only one sat input--apparently not.


I missed a recording earlier--it recorded but all it recorded was a grey screen.
Apparently, 6.3 is programmed only to recognize two tuners. Therefore, recording a sat channel when you have only one sat line in is a crap shoot. After trying to call tech support and being on hold for a good period without getting through I did e-mail them regarding the problem with 6.3 and told them if there was not a fix I would like to revert back to the old software. I wish with 6.3 they had just focused on speed and left everything else alone. After rebooting I was watching a program and all of a sudden the picture froze and my remote became unresponsive. This didn't seem to be related to the
dual tuner issue. I now long for 3.1f--even with its slowness it was dependable but my
HD Tivo with 6.3 has become extremely unreliable.


----------



## newsposter

if you didnt notice, while you are looking at a program in NP and hit info, it lists similar programs. Sorta interesting little toy to see what else you might like. Who knows what other hidden treasures await.


----------



## Mark Lopez

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but the update also resets the time zone setting to automatic. Only important if you have 'moved'.


----------



## drew2k

I posted this in the Problems Thread, but I'll add it here as well to the "unofficial" list of changes introduced in 6.3...

I received 6.3a on both of my HR10s this morning, and found a bug that I hadn't seen reported already: EXIT no longer returns to the program that you were playing from the Now Playing List!

Here's how the EXIT key used to work:


HR10 Instruction manual said:


> EXIT clears all menus and goes to the last channel or recorded program you were watching. If you press it while you are watching a program, it clears things that aren't part of the program (like the channel banner and status bar).


After playing a program from the NPL in 6.3a, if I press MENU and then EXIT, I'm taken to Live TV, and not back to the program I was just playing.


----------



## newsposter

newsposter said:


> if you didnt notice, while you are looking at a program in NP and hit info, it lists similar programs. Sorta interesting little toy to see what else you might like. Who knows what other hidden treasures await.


weird...i saw this feature in mtv cribs but then later on i went to the more mainstream programs on broadcast tv and there were no 'suggestions' on their info screen.

is this something that mtv does ? what determines the suggestions on the info screen?

----
on a sad note, had 1st ota drop out this morning...pic was fine...sound gone...pcm on with the noise equalizer thing turned on


----------



## BrettStah

I didn't see this mentioned, but could have missed it, so sorry if this is a smeek... when you're watching a recording, if you press the right-arrow button until the largest on-screen graphic is displayed, you'll see the show's title, description, etc. At the bottom, below the description, I now see something to the effect of, "Recorded on: October 13th, 2006 on Channel 4".


----------



## phox_mulder

BrettStah said:


> I didn't see this mentioned, but could have missed it, so sorry if this is a smeek... when you're watching a recording, if you press the right-arrow button until the largest on-screen graphic is displayed, you'll see the show's title, description, etc. At the bottom, below the description, I now see something to the effect of, "Recorded on: October 13th, 2006 on Channel 4".


Yes, it's a smeek, but a great addition.

I'm always dumping shows to tape for friends/relatives who missed such and such show.
I put 10 seconds or so of that screen at the beginning so they know what they are watching, now they also know when it was recorded.

phox


----------



## newsposter

phox_mulder said:


> Yes, it's a smeek, but a great addition.
> 
> I'm always dumping shows to tape for friends/relatives who missed such and such show.
> I put 10 seconds or so of that screen at the beginning so they know what they are watching, now they also know when it was recorded.
> 
> phox


have you tried save to vcr? I do that for friends and it's a much slicker graphic than just hitting display.


----------



## phox_mulder

newsposter said:


> have you tried save to vcr? I do that for friends and it's a much slicker graphic than just hitting display.


I don't like that graphic, it doesn't have enough info.
Although, I haven't checked it lately to see what more it has, if anything, after the upgrade.

I also want them to know it came from a TiVo, and they should get themselves one. 

phox


----------



## newsposter

just got 6.3 and 1x FF wouldn't work on last night CW OTA. It freezes when you do 1x FF but 2 and 3x work..unplugged the 2nd receiver to prevent this problem


----------



## SD493

SD493 said:


> I missed a recording earlier--it recorded but all it recorded was a grey screen.
> Apparently, 6.3 is programmed only to recognize two tuners. Therefore, recording a sat channel when you have only one sat line in is a crap shoot. After trying to call tech support and being on hold for a good period without getting through I did e-mail them regarding the problem with 6.3 and told them if there was not a fix I would like to revert back to the old software. I wish with 6.3 they had just focused on speed and left everything else alone. After rebooting I was watching a program and all of a sudden the picture froze and my remote became unresponsive. This didn't seem to be related to the
> dual tuner issue. I now long for 3.1f--even with its slowness it was dependable but my
> HD Tivo with 6.3 has become extremely unreliable.


I finally got through to tech suppoort regarding the problem with 6.3 not recognizing that only one tuner is enabled (arbitararly going to a tuner for recordings and sometimes going to the tuner not enabled). I was transferred twice so I assume I was on 3rd level support. After being told that what was happening couldn't be happening I finally conviced the tech support person that it was happening. The end result was that I was told to do a "clear and delete."
The recorder is in the process of doing that right now (luckily I was off work last week and watched most of my recordings so I won't loose anything important--just be a pain resetting all of my season passes). We'll see if that solves the problem.


----------



## Mark Lopez

Now I know most people wanted to blame the 3.1 stuttering problems on a bad drive. But a long time ago, I pretty much proved (at least to myself) that it was software related. If the unit was left on one channel for extended periods it would start to stutter (both of my units had the probolem). Changing the channel to clear the buffer always fixed it. Anyway, I have not had any stuttering on either with 6.3.


----------



## willardcpa

Mark Lopez said:


> .... Anyway, I have not had any stuttering on either with 6.3.


Maybe that is because you keep changing the channel?


----------



## bwaldron

Mark Lopez said:


> Now I know most people wanted to blame the 3.1 stuttering problems on a bad drive. But a long time ago, I pretty much proved (at least to myself) that it was software related. If the unit was left on one channel for extended periods it would start to stutter (both of my units had the probolem). Changing the channel to clear the buffer always fixed it. Anyway, I have not had any stuttering on either with 6.3.


Yes, I have seen that problem and it's not the drive.


----------



## guptasa1

Here's my report on 6.3a after about a day of use:

The Good:
--------------
1.) Folders rock!
2.) Guide's much faster!
3.) Trick play seems faster with fewer stutters and inconsistences - it seems to work always as it should. (However, the unit was also just rebooted too, so that *could* be it - 3.15 used to start to do strange things with trick play, like not jumping back enough, etc.).
4.) I think the problem where stutters would occur if on a channel for too long might be fixed. 
5.) Menus seem faster, etc.
6.) When recording two HD sources with 3.15, it would sometimes stop recording mid-shows (both) because of a glitch even though it thought it was still recording. This especially seemed to happen if I was watching one of the two shows being recorded and both were HD. I've only had one recording of two HD sources at once so far with the new software, but, it went flawlessly, and I even watched (and used trick play) while it recorded. Hoping this is maybe fixed.
7.) I don't have any OTA (use DNS instead). I was very worried after hearing about the Dolby Digital audio dropouts, but so far, there have been no problems with anything I've recorded (aside from feed errors that were verifiably not a Tivo problem).

The Bad:
--------------
1.) This is the big one, but it's not huge. I'm one of those obsessive types that likes to hear every line of dialogue, etc. Occasionally when I can't make something out (not too often, but sometimes), I turn on Closed Captioning. It was always a pain and I always wished one button would do it as you have to go through the whole menu settings and video selection to get there. But now it's even worse, because instead of the old behavior of exiting back to whatever you were watching, including a recorded program, now when you exit, it takes you back to live TV and you have to go back into the list and to your recorded program again. Something that already took too many steps now takes several more.

And that's about it. Overall, very pleased so far.


----------



## durl

guptasa1 said:


> The Bad:
> --------------
> 1.) This is the big one, but it's not huge. I'm one of those obsessive types that likes to hear every line of dialogue, etc. Occasionally when I can't make something out (not too often, but sometimes), I turn on Closed Captioning. It was always a pain and I always wished one button would do it as you have to go through the whole menu settings and video selection to get there. But now it's even worse, because instead of the old behavior of exiting back to whatever you were watching, including a recorded program, now when you exit, it takes you back to live TV and you have to go back into the list and to your recorded program again. Something that already took too many steps now takes several more.


I'm with you completely on this one. The lack of a single button to activate CC is probably my biggest disappointment with this unit.


----------



## drew2k

durl said:


> I'm with you completely on this one. The lack of a single button to activate CC is probably my biggest disappointment with this unit.


I think TiVo has heard enough complaints about this that they have finally done something about it. The new Series 3 SA HD TiVo units have a new CC option in the info banner, just like we have options for SA or DD in the banner. When viewing live TV or a recording, the S3 users only have to press Info, three downs to get to the CC icon, and select, and they are taken to the CC menu.

I would _almost_ prefer to have this CC shortcut over folders ...


----------



## moonman

Where are the folders???
I received 6.3a on Sunday, but do not see any folders(yes I checked the option on from
default off)...but I don't see anything special...isn't there suppose to be something added
in the N/P menu??


----------



## Mark Lopez

moonman said:


> Where are the folders???


Press 2 in N/P


----------



## Mark Lopez

drew2k said:


> When viewing live TV or a recording, the S3 users only have to press Info, three downs to get to the CC icon, and select, and they are taken to the CC menu.


Oh, is that all it takes?  Silly me for thinking it should be way easier (i.e. select would toggle it vice taking you to another menu to toggle it).


----------



## drew2k

Mark Lopez said:


> Oh, is that all it takes?  Silly me for thinking it should be way easier (i.e. select would toggle it vice taking you to another menu to toggle it).


It would be nice if the CC icon in the Info banner toggled it directly, but instead it takes you to the CC menu on the S3. Regardless, compared to the HR10 method it is MUCH easier using the S3.

S3 Method: Info, down, down, down, select

HR10 Method: Menu, down, down, down, down, select on Messages & Settings, down, down, select on Settings, Page Down, select on Video, Select on CC.

TiVo, take me away!


----------



## joetoronto

i cant seem to get folders working, i went into the "now playing list" and hit enter, put groups to "on" and still no folders.

what am i doing wrong?


----------



## DolphinGirl

I got 6.3a Sunday 10/15. Everything was fine including the new folders. Yerstreday, Studio 60 recorded all pixelated and now my folders are gone. 

Are these both signs of 6.3a problem?


----------



## hiker

joetoronto said:


> i cant seem to get folders working, i went into the "now playing list" and hit enter, put groups to "on" and still no folders.
> 
> what am i doing wrong?


Folders only show up when when there are multiple programs with the same name.


----------



## joetoronto

hiker said:


> Folders only show up when when there are multiple programs with the same name.


ah ha, works for me. thanks, hiker.


----------



## guptasa1

drew2k said:


> HR10 Method: Menu, down, down, down, down, select on Messages & Settings, down, down, select on Settings, Page Down, select on Video, Select on CC.
> 
> TiVo, take me away!


And NOW, if you happen to be watching a recorded program (which is practically all I watch), once you hit Exit, you have to go back to List, select the program you want to watch, and select resume. Argh.

Honestly, given the time this takes, most of the time I just figure I didn't miss anything that important (listen 2-3 times to see if I can make it out) instead of going through all this. =oP Because once I figure it out, I have to do it all over again to turn CC back off. Sillyness.

Frankly, I think a better option is just to have a CC button (or at least command for programmable remotes), similar to how you can toggle Subtitles on a DVD player. But the S3 method sounds pretty decent - I have DirecTV so the S3 is simply not an option for me (and we only have one cable provider here in the boonies, and they suck and don't even offer HD at ALL yet).


----------



## sluciani

durl said:


> I'm with you completely on this one. The lack of a single button to activate CC is probably my biggest disappointment with this unit.


I feel the same. It seems HD CC's are still considered an afterthought by Tivo. What may have indirectly contributed to this was that pre-HD TV, it was the display manufacturer's job to implement caption display.

/steve


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## sluciani

DolphinGirl said:


> I got 6.3a Sunday 10/15. Everything was fine including the new folders. Yerstreday, Studio 60 recorded all pixelated and now my folders are gone.
> 
> Are these both signs of 6.3a problem?


I guess it's possible that drive problems could cause what you experienced, and that 6.3a was the straw that broke the camel's back and caused the bad Studio 60 recording (great show, btw!). If it happens often, I'd do a "Clear and Delete" everything to try to clean up your drive a bit. Downside of doing this is you'll lose all your recordings, season's passes and probably all your logos.

Do you remember what the weather was at the time Studio 60 was recorded? Heavy rain or cloud cover? Diminished Sat signal strength will also cause the symptoms you described.

/steve


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## mr.unnatural

I haven't had a chance to review the earlier posts to see if this has been mentioned so please forgive me if it's redundant.

When accessing the guide data, you can press the INFO buton and make several changes to the guide, including the current date and time being displayed. This is helpful when setting up season passes or other recordings in advance as it will take you right to the air date and time of the show you are interested in. With previous versions of the software, once you finished setting up the recording or season pass, you were taken back to the current date and time in the guide. 

With 6.3a, you are returned to the same date and time you selected prior to setting up the recording. I find this to be a vast improvement if I'm trying to set up several season passes on the same day. In the past, I'd have to select the date and time all over again with each season pass I wanted to set up. Now I can just scroll through the channel listings and set up season passes one after the other without going through the entire process again. Closing the guide restores it to the current date and time the next time it is displayed.


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## BrettStah

mr.unnatural said:


> I haven't had a chance to review the earlier posts to see if this has been mentioned so please forgive me if it's redundant.
> 
> When accessing the guide data, you can press the INFO buton and make several changes to the guide, including the current date and time being displayed. This is helpful when setting up season passes or other recordings in advance as it will take you right to the air date and time of the show you are interested in. With previous versions of the software, once you finished setting up the recording or season pass, you were taken back to the current date and time in the guide.
> 
> With 6.3a, you are returned to the same date and time you selected prior to setting up the recording. I find this to be a vast improvement if I'm trying to set up several season passes on the same day. In the past, I'd have to select the date and time all over again with each season pass I wanted to set up. Now I can just scroll through the channel listings and set up season passes one after the other without going through the entire process again. Closing the guide restores it to the current date and time the next time it is displayed.


WOO HOO! That was one of the annoying things about the guide for me...


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## MacDog7970

Has anyone noticed that their OTA performance has improved? Before the upgrade, my local NBC affiliate (WXIA-Atlanta) would pixelate every 10 sec. Now, after the upgrade, I'm getting a rock-solid signal. Also, before the upgrade, no PBS-DT signal, but now, I get a strong signal.


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## digitalsoftail

I removed my DIY drives and reinstalled my original drive to accept the 6.3 upgrade. After the upgrade I removed my original and put it back on the shelf ready to be imaged. Any talk of DIY tools for that?


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## stevel

digitalsoftail said:


> After the upgrade I removed my original and put it back on the shelf ready to be imaged. Any talk of DIY tools for that?


I'm not sure what you're asking for. I asusme you already know about the standard tools for copying TiVo disks (mfs_tools and dd). What exactly do you want to do?


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## helmdawg

I received the 6.3a update last night. I turned on folders and for some reason for example, none of my Law & Orders went into a folder? Also, I have three of my son's shows in the now playing list, only 2 show up in a folder and 1 outside the folder? What gives?

BTW - Yes, all the names of the shows are the same.


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## stevel

Only newly recorded shows go into folders.


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## helmdawg

Basically, it would not index shows into a folder already in the NPL?


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## hiker

helmdawg said:


> Basically, it would not index shows into a folder already in the NPL?


It does put programs recorded under 3.1.5f into folders.


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## digitalsoftail

Thanks Steve,
I'm going to image the original drive that has the 6.3 upgrade. I'll then build a new drive, then I would like to apply the LBA48 CD with enhancements for networking, etc. Will that work for me or is there an updated LBA48 CD? Note, the original drive was virgin, and now has the 6.3 upgrade on it. My LBA48 CD worked fine to upgrade from 3.51, will it work to upgrade from 6.3?


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## SD493

SD493 said:


> I finally got through to tech suppoort regarding the problem with 6.3 not recognizing that only one tuner is enabled (arbitararly going to a tuner for recordings and sometimes going to the tuner not enabled). I was transferred twice so I assume I was on 3rd level support. After being told that what was happening couldn't be happening I finally conviced the tech support person that it was happening. The end result was that I was told to do a "clear and delete."
> The recorder is in the process of doing that right now (luckily I was off work last week and watched most of my recordings so I won't loose anything important--just be a pain resetting all of my season passes). We'll see if that solves the problem.


Didn't solve the problem.


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## newsposter

stevel said:


> Only newly recorded shows go into folders.


I must be taking you out of context. Only new shows recorded after 6 3 go into folders? Not on my machine. Tons of old stuff got put into folders for me. now I'm all too well aware that i'm 12 shows behind on certain things


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## JEDeG

After I upgraded to 6.3a, shows recorded under 3.1.5f DID NOT go into folders on my system (i.e., I have one 3.1.5f episode of Grey's Anatomy that did not go into the Grey's folder where I have two 6.3a shows saved). Only the nwely recorded shows make it. Any way I can get 3.1.5f shows into a folder?


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## eddieras99

is this new with 6.3?? it shows 'first 10 shows' of .each wish list when searching all wish lists.


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## Anubys

got it on 2 of 3 units last night...things I noticed so far: 

1. when in the NPL, pressing "play" to start a show (and bypass the next screen) hangs up on the green screen of death for a good 3-5 seconds before starting to play the show. One time, I had to go left to come back to the NPL and start over because I heard the audio but the video was stuck on a blank green screen. 

2. Sorting 29 SPs took about 10 seconds to come out :up: 

3. I started watching a show (Bears/Cardinals game, actually) that I had left at half-time before the upgrade. After the upgrade, the show was at the beginning of the recording (no big deal, just an observation). 

4. I want the unit to tell me which channels I receive (how do I know if I get channel 289 or not?!)...but it doesn't...by default, all the channels are selected as ones I receive :down: 

5. Harmony remote 676 problem: the LiveTV, ThumbsUp, and ThumbsDown button did not work...had to teach the remote the command. Then they worked fine.


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## Mark Lopez

stevel said:


> Only newly recorded shows go into folders.


Like other mentioned, all of my existing 3.1 recordings went into folders as soon as I turned them on.


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## Mark Lopez

Anubys said:


> 4. I want the unit to tell me which channels I receive (how do I know if I get channel 289 or not?!)...but it doesn't...be default, all the channels are selected as ones I receive :down:


Well, in all fairness it never did that (told you what you actually could receive). But I agree with the :down: for still not including a basic feature that my 1st gen receiver over 10 years ago would do.


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## newsposter

Anubys said:


> got it on 2 of 3 units last night...things I noticed so far:
> 
> 1. when in the NPL, pressing "play" to start a show (and bypass the next screen) hangs up on the green screen of death for a good 3-5 seconds before starting to play the show. One time, I had to go left to come back to the NPL and start over because I heard the audio but the video was stuck on a blank green screen.
> 
> 4. I want the unit to tell me which channels I receive (how do I know if I get channel 289 or not?!)...but it doesn't...by default, all the channels are selected as ones I receive :down:
> 
> .


1. Every show? hmm not right. I've had no problems my 1st week like that. I almost always bypass like you do. Maybe it will fix itself 

4. I have most turned on anyway except there are some OTA that dont come in and i need to delete them. I actually did a split screen on my tv with both HDtivos and deleted channels like that, getting them off the non upgraded unit..was fun. I do agree they should have changed the 'received' term to channels "preferred' or something like that. Received is just too...wrong!


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## LlamaLarry

Anubys said:


> 5. Harmony remote 676 problem: the LiveTV, ThumbsUp, and ThumbsDown button did not work...had to teach the remote the command. Then they worked fine.


That's weird, I did not have that problem with the 880.


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## helmdawg

Mark Lopez said:


> Like other mentioned, all of my existing 3.1 recordings went into folders as soon as I turned them on.


For some reason mine didn't. I will keep an eye on it going forward.


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## Anubys

newsposter said:


> 1. Every show? hmm not right. I've had no problems my 1st week like that. I almost always bypass like you do. Maybe it will fix itself


well, remember, I only got it last night...so my sample is very small...I watched 3 shows and it happened with all 3...


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## Mark Lopez

helmdawg said:


> For some reason mine didn't. I will keep an eye on it going forward.


I don't know if it makes any difference, but I turned folders on using the 2 button in N/P vice using the menu.


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## newsposter

Anubys said:


> well, remember, I only got it last night...so my sample is very small...I watched 3 shows and it happened with all 3...


i've had it a week and only now am beginning to notice 'remote lag' where i press the button, (sony vl900) and see the tivo light flash, then have to wait for a response. I think i read here that our machines are actually too fast now (but dont know the techincal reasons)

also it locks up when i try to FF sometimes. Hit it multiple times and forget it probably 'worked' then it cycles a few times thru the FFing because i hit it so much


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## wrightwing

Mark Lopez said:


> Well, in all fairness it never did that (told you what you actually could receive). But I agree with the :down: for still not including a basic feature that my 1st gen receiver over 10 years ago would do.


I agree with that. I have to go through the channels and make a list of the ones I dont receive, then go in and take them out. THAT is time consuming. My Sony Sat-B50 (really old receiver) could scan all channels and take out the ones I didn't receive/pay for. Of course, I had a samsung ts-360 later on and it didn't have a feature like this either. I wonder if D* doesnt discourage such a feature, as they so often turn channels off and on these days. If you scanned, and the channel wasn't there at the time, you would never see it. Back five or six years ago, the channel list stayed pretty much the same all the time.


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## sluciani

wrightwing said:


> I agree with that. I have to go through the channels and make a list of the ones I dont receive, then go in and take them out. THAT is time consuming. My Sony Sat-B50 (really old receiver) could scan all channels and take out the ones I didn't receive/pay for. Of course, I had a samsung ts-360 later on and it didn't have a feature like this either. I wonder if D* doesnt discourage such a feature, as they so often turn channels off and on these days. If you scanned, and the channel wasn't there at the time, you would never see it. Back five or six years ago, the channel list stayed pretty much the same all the time.


I use Channels I receive as a Favorites "A" list (with music and PPV channels), and Favorites as a "B" list (normal viewing), so I don't mind that the main list isn't auto-populated based on our plans. I do wish there was a "deselect" all option, however, so I only had to check the channels I wanted rather than uncheck the ones I didn't want... similar to the way you pick "Favorite Channels" now.


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## bellbm

KSbugeater said:


> There is one way to ensure the "good" input was used for SAT... before you leave the house, tune the "good" input to the channel your SAT program is on, then switch tuners. Then the background tuner is the "good" input. Again, you still have to be sure that no SAT programs are opposite each other.
> 
> This is how I have my HR10 set up: tell it there are 2 SAT inputs, but I only have one hooked up. Then I get the use of both OTA tuners. I must disclose that I have 2 SAT lines running to my new HR20 (since its OTAs aren't enabled yet, an unconnected tuner is worthless) so between 2 SAT tuners, 1 OTA, and 1 flexible tuner I should pretty much be able to resolve any conflicts. I should note that I had to turn Suggestions OFF or else TiVo would be switching tuners to SAT channels and foiling my workaround of "leave it on the SAT channel to be recorded later".


I have similar set up as discussed here, 1 sat line, but both tuners enabled. In the past, it always "found" the sat signal, unless I was tuned to a sat channel. Now, it seems to treat each tuner separately.

Having to remember to tune to the proper channel, ugh! I feel like its 1984 and I've got some junky VCR where I have to set it to the proper channel and set up an unattended recording!


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