# V+ versus Tivo



## ronnieg (Jul 14, 2005)

Virgin Media are now offering V+ boxes to subscribers for half price and no monthly subscription. Total therefore &#163;75. It sounds a good deal and I am tempted to replace my Tivo as the V+ box has the following advantages over Tivo

1 - you can record 2 programs
2 - it offers HD on BBC 1 HD
3 - I get rid of 1 box as my current cable box would be replaced with V+ and I wouldnt then need TIVO. So room on my cabinet for another toy!
4 - no monthly subscription (though admittedly for me that doesnt count as I have a lifetime subscription)

I am hoping it also has the advantage that it wont cut off progs before they are finished. Thats my biggest complaint about Tivo. I know you can extend it but it isnt always possible as it then clashes, Does anyone know if V+ has the facility to know that a program has overran or started late - like Video plus does?

Also I would be interested to hear your views on the advantages of keeping Tivo - I dont think there is any point in both - but maybe you could advise me otherwise.

Thanks


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

Just to clarify item 2. The BBC HD channel is just called BBC HD. There isn't a BBC 1/One HD yet - the BBC HD channel is a separate service carrying shows made in HD for BBC One, Two, Three, Four and possible CBBC/CBeebies as well.


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## ronnieg (Jul 14, 2005)

thanks - sorry to confuse the HD issue.

I have just checked with Virgin and it appears that V+ will like Tivo cut off the end of the prog if its running late. Also like Tivo it has the option to extend the recording.
So thats 1 question answered!

Still appreciate the opinions of the fors and againsts for V+


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Pros:

1. You can record 3 channels - 2 on V+,
and tivo can record the 3rd "viewing" channel

2. It has excelent on-demand stuff, with a fair amount in HD 

3. Its shares the same GUI/EPG as regular VM cable boxes, the only real difference being you can press record in the guide
(Not sure thats a plus point!)

Cons (I'll be gentle  )

1. No title or keyword search of any kind

2. No equivalent of "keep at most" at all, 
-so it can fill the disk with the same shows quickly.. which leads on to

3. No equivalent of "keep until" 
-When the disk is full, default behaviour is to not record anything else at all ! A recent update has fixed this, so you can now go into the menu and choose "delete oldest first", but it doesn't allow any prioirity of recordings at all.

4. Live buffer only starts when you press pause:
- so no rewinding livetv when you sit down
- recording a programme after it has started only cpatures from when you pressed record, not the beiginning, even itf it has been tuned to that channel from the start.

Basically, it's a sky+ clone - and that's not a compliment


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Yeah. I tend to agree. 

+'s
Record 2 channels, watch one

-'s
It's not a Tivo



Of course, for those who haven't been spoiled by owning a Tivo, it's actually not bad


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## smokie (Dec 27, 2002)

Last sentence is spot on Carl. My V+ was finally installed today.

Having only had it a few hours, I am now thinking 1) well that was a bit of a waste of money and 2) that I will keep Tivo in it's current place with the old Virgin box to use for most recording and use V+ for anything HD. One disadvantage with this is that the remote is the same for both units so change the channel on one and it changes the other too.

Apart from those already mentioned, the two major restrictions of V+ which I have so far identified are the small disk space (only 20hrs of HD) and the fact that if you use HD output it disables all other outputs on the back of the box so no pumping it around the house on RF.

I will be quite happy for it to co-exist with TiVo until they improve it somewhat. HD is very impressive thoigh.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

> One disadvantage with this is that the remote is the same for both units so change the channel on one and it changes the other too.


I agree but a nice bit of gaffer tape has solved that.

If you have the film channels you will be glad of the V+ box because of the PIN issue when trying to record Sky films onto Tivo.


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## Anndra (Oct 12, 2004)

I have two friends who use V+, one of them has a TiVo too. One loves his Virgin service, nice fast broadband, and recording on a Hard Drisk is like the future! The one with the TiVo thinks the only difference between the two is that the TiVo works, and the V+ box is a useless pain in the neck, that records things if it feels like it, which is providing Virgin is transmitting, which for the past two days it hasn't.


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## ronnieg (Jul 14, 2005)

Keep em coming - its useful to compare!
Certainly I dont like the fact that with V+ there is no 30 min 'rolling' record which Tivo has. And no opportunity to record a whole program if you are in the middle of it already - the 30 min window for recording that Tivo provides is very useful.

I would like to use the HD facility of my TV though so it sounds like rather than a replacement for Tivo it would be an addition. Trouble is things are complicated enough for the wife. If I simply changed my pace cable box for V+ presumably it would all still connect as before plus the HDMI connection? Do you know if V+ comes with an HDI cable? Would TIVO still be on AV1 if thats my current input and how would I be able to record using V+ if Tivo had the AV1 input?

I am using a Harmony remote to simplify the remote handsets and presumably V+ would also work with the Harmony.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Anndra said:


> ...which is providing Virgin is transmitting, which for the past two days it hasn't.


Though I don't know exactly what you mean by that it sounds like a service provision issue rather than a specifically V+ issue.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

> Do you know if V+ comes with an HDI cable?


Yes



> I am using a Harmony remote to simplify the remote handsets and presumably V+ would also work with the Harmony.


Yes. But you may have to teach some buttons to the Harmony

Have you considered taking up one of the Virgin Media packages and keeping the standard cable box attached to Tivo, you could then have the V+ connected to TV HD input and the Tivo connected via scart


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

ronnieg said:


> If I simply changed my pace cable box for V+ presumably it would all still connect as before plus the HDMI connection?


I think so.



ronnieg said:


> Do you know if V+ comes with an HDI cable?


Usually, yes, but I would make sure you ask for one when you order it.



ronnieg said:


> Would TIVO still be on AV1 if thats my current input and how would I be able to record using V+ if Tivo had the AV1 input?


Assuming you have more than one SCART input, then you can use any of them for either box; if you see what I mean. Not sure about your latter point as I don't have a V+ myself 



ronnieg said:


> I am using a Harmony remote to simplify the remote handsets and presumably V+ would also work with the Harmony.


As a potential "Harmony remote" user I would be interested in the answer to this question. However, as the V+ not only uses standard IR, rather than the IrDA of the older Pace boxes, but is also based on a US Scientific Atlanta cable box anyway, I can't see it not doing so


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## ronnieg (Jul 14, 2005)

RichardJH said:


> Yes
> Have you considered taking up one of the Virgin Media packages and keeping the standard cable box attached to Tivo, you could then have the V+ connected to TV HD input and the Tivo connected via scart


So if I did that I would watch HD using the HDMI input on my TV. Ok that seems fine. But if I keep the pace box I have no room on my cabinet for a V+ box. If I got round that one how would I record from the V+ box - presumably via the HDMI input? 
What would be the point in keeping the pace box too - if Virgin allow me to?


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

If you switch the V+ to HD output you will get no scart output so therefore nothing into the Tivo.

Definitely the best bet would be 2 boxes 1 STB for Tivo V+ for HD.

Depending on what cable package you are on at the moment you may want to look at the VIP package and with good negotiation with CS at VM you may get free installation but be aware that since Sept last any changes to services can tie you into a 12 month contract for the new service.

I personally opted for the VIP package and now have Tivo 1 with Cable STB. Tivo 2 with Freeview and V+ standalone.

Everthing goes via a Quintro + scart switcher that gives me RGB input from all to TV and the option to archive from anything to my DVD recorder


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## ronnieg (Jul 14, 2005)

RichardJH said:


> I personally opted for the VIP package and now have Tivo 1 with Cable STB. Tivo 2 with Freeview and V+ standalone.
> 
> Everthing goes via a Quintro + scart switcher that gives me RGB input from all to TV and the option to archive from anything to my DVD recorder


Beginning to lose me now! Sounds like you also have 2 tivo boxes as well or is that just your input names.
Maybe I should just try using their 28 day satisfaction promise and order one and see if I can either get it working with TIVO or replace TIVO. Then I can return it if it doesnt suit my set up. The VIP price packages are a bit high and I dont need all those services. Thanks again for your suggestions though. its become an interesting thread!

BTW on a Logitech forum users were saying that they had got their harmonies to work with V* - with a little tweaking!


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

Ronnieg

To help you let me know

1. if you already have a Tivo does it have a lifetime subscription or is it monthly

2. What services do you already get from Virgin

3 Why do you feel like getting rid of Tivo 

And yes to answer your question I do have 2 Tivos AND a V+ box


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## ronnieg (Jul 14, 2005)

RichardJH said:


> Ronnieg
> 
> To help you let me know
> 
> ...


1 - Lifetime subscription
2 -broadband; TV (XL +sky sports) & phone
3 - to take advantage of recording 2 progs at once and to experience HD as I have a new 42" plasma HD ready. Also to replace 2 boxes (Tivo + Pace cable box) with one which gives me same facilities.

I have had Tivo for many years and am a big fan but up to now its had no competition so was never an issue. I really dont understand why it didnt catch on before all the sky+ and V+ came along. Plus of course I am a little concerned it will become obsolete with no support.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

> 1 - Lifetime subscription


KEEP IT at present you cannot find anything to beat it



> 2 -broadband; TV (XL +sky sports) & phone


You are nearly at the top package check out the VIP package and then keep the existing box with Tivo and use V+ with HD. That will give you all the benefits of both with the option of recording 3 progs at once.

Any other questions please feel free to ask on the forum or PM me


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## ronnieg (Jul 14, 2005)

thanks for the advice but still 2 things against this 
1 - dont have room for another box
2 - £85 per month is a bit steep for what I need. If i remember correctly I have a loyalty discount and pay £50 plus my calls which are never much more than £10 or so.

Maybe I will just stick with TIVO!


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

If all you're really bothered about is losing the end of programmes then take a look at endpad.
I wrote a guide to installing it without a network card in your Tivo
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4733241&&#post4733241
You will need to remove the Tivo hard drive and a bit of computer knowledge to get it set up in a PC but once its done you can forget about it and (hardly ever) miss the end of another programme.


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## Anndra (Oct 12, 2004)

cwaring said:


> Though I don't know exactly what you mean by that it sounds like a service provision issue rather than a specifically V+ issue.


Oh sure, but not matter how good the V+ box is, if you are unlucky enough to be in an area where they are having constant service problems, there is little point in having it.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Fair enough, but then Tivo wouldn't work either


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Fair enough, but then Tivo wouldn't work either


Tivo would be reliable if you switched its source to a Freeview or Sky Pay Once Watch Forever box though.

My mum had NTL cable in an area where it was always going off for several hours and no one at NTL had any clue when it might be coming back.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Tivo would be reliable if you switched its source to a Freeview or Sky Pay Once Watch Forever box though.


Well, Duh! My Tivo/Cable combo is 99.9% reliable right now; so


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

Ignore him Carl


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Well, Duh! My Tivo/Cable combo is 99.9% reliable right now; so


Yes we know. But that's because the predecessor cable company built your network reliably.

Unfortunately large parts of the former NTL network especially are a pile of old pooh built on the cheap by Jo Cowboy and they are the ones that are unreliable and give the problems.

I was only referring to people who are in that situation finding Sky or Freeview more reliable. And of course Freeview can be thoroughly unreliable and flakey if you live in the wrong place too.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

I assume you meant Telewest? Well, I guess you haven't noticed that I've now moved into an xNTL area then, and have been here for just over a year now


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> I assume you meant Telewest? Well, I guess you haven't noticed that I've now moved into an xNTL area then, and have been here for just over a year now


Yes but the NTL network was comprised of numerous predecessor companies they took over so it depends entirely on which one of these actually built your bit of the formerly NTL and now Virgin Media cable network.

Some were fine and some made a terrible mess of their cable network installation. NTL before them and now Virgin Media are trying to get rid of the most unreliable parts of the network by updating them but its a long and expensive job.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

> I assume you meant Telewest?


I am in an ex Cable Corporation then Telewest now Virgin Media area having started with Analoque and then moved to Digital from startup and not had any problems other than those caused by power outages.


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## smokie (Dec 27, 2002)

I'm in a similar situation to the OP. Lifetime TiVo sub, &#163;50ish for XL everything (except I don't get Sky Sports for that) and in some doubt why I would want V+. But 'er indoors gave me a multimedia budget during the recent lounge redecoration so I got it. Last nikight was the first night I've really looked at V+.

1) HDMI is awesome to watch (there are a few nature programmes in the cath-up section) but there isn't really enough content available yet - this will be improving soon I hear.

2) I can see the 80Gb disk being a serious limitation to the way I use it. I record a lot of season passes, but also use the Thumbs Up to catch shows that I would like to see but am not desparate for. The TiVo also is used as an archive, holding some complete series of things which might get watched again. The 80Gb drive doesn't have enough space for this.

3) Last night we made a decision to keep the two Virgin boxes in the lounge. V+ is attached to the telly via HDMI. It doesn't go to TiVo. This is so we can watch HDMI when we want, without faffing around unplugging cables (as the V+ disables other outputs when using HDMI). (btw the original installer had no HDMI cables, but I had a guy in yesterday whoi gave me one, polus a spare remote). I am getting an optical sound cable (SPDIF?) so I can put the sound through my home theatre.

4) The Old Virgin box will remain attached to the TiVo, in turn attached to AV1 scart on the telly and pumped around the house using RF. The installer put a splitter on the incoming cable in the lounge, so one cable goes to each box.

5) We are gradually going to shift series recordings of series which we (well, she) keeps up-to-date on to V+ - for instance Holby. Other series, which don't require you to keep up to date (e.g. University Challenge) will remain being recorded on TiVo. We are going to transition these slowly and keep an eye on capacity, so that disk space management doesn't become an issue on V+.

6) I can see that disk space will be even more stretched when HD broadcasts become more common - but hopefully they will introduce a bigger disk by then (1Gb per hour)

7) Regarding your question on setting recordings - the V+ box has 3 tuners, two for recroding and one for watching. You never ever watch the "recording" tuners. Last night we set up two recordings at 8 pm and watched something else (HD) on V+. The recordings worked fine. (There may be no PDC but the shows must have both pretty much started on time). Onviously as the recordings are done internally, there is no IR being broadcast so nothing will interfere with your other devices. HOWEVER - as I mentioned above, both Virgin devices use the same IR code. This won't be a problem with V+ recordings, but if TiVo changes the channel on the old Virgin box to record something while we are watching on V+ then the channel will get changed. Not a biggie, and I'm sure a way round will surface. Also I guess if someone is watching V+ in the lounge, and someone else is watching Virgin in the bedroom and changes channel, those channel changes will happen to both boxes. This will not, however, affect V+ recordings at all. (Of course, using the remote to change V+ channels will affect the Virgin box and hence anything that is being recorded on TiVo).

A partial solution to this might be to relocate TiVo and the old Virgin box to the bedroom, but because I use IR senders it wouldn't fully fix the problem.

8) There is no concept of "suggestions" on V+. It will record only what you ask it to, but the user interfaces are usable enough.

Well, there's War and Peace. I hope it's helpful. My initial impressions of V+ are that it is good, limited by disk and the disabling of other outputs when using HDMI, both of which I hope will be resolved in time. But of course it isn't as good as TiVo. I'm pleased I've got it, but at the moment, if you have a good TiVo set-up, it isn't a must-have.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

smokie said:


> 8) There is no concept of "suggestions" on V+. It will record only what you ask it to, but the user interfaces are usable enough.


Not to mention no concept of Wishlists which you overlooked.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

> but if TiVo changes the channel on the old Virgin box to record something while we are watching on V+ then the channel will get changed.


That wont happen if you use the IR wands to control your standard STB by Tivo instead of the front IR blaster.

However if you use the V+ remote some of its buttons will cause the normal STB to change channels which you do not want to happen when Tivo is recording from it.

The solution I have used is to use a stick type IR receiver (instead of the Tivo supplied wands) and the cover the whole window of the STB with gaffer tape.

If you can it is worth leaving a bit of the gaffer tape as a lift up flap so that if you need to use the cable remote eg. to put a PIN in if you decide to record a $ky film on Tivo.


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## smokie (Dec 27, 2002)

Thanks Richard - never had to use the wands, but I found them when clering out the lounge for redecoration - took me a few mins to remember what they were!! IF I can get TiVo out of it's new hole without disturbing anything I'll put these in - this would be good. (Why oh why are SCART connectors so flaky?)

Your solution would mean always controlling V+ from the front of the box though? If so, we will carry on how we are now, and see how we get on. If V+ is going to be my main viewing STB in the lounge, manually controlling the box will be a bit of a pain.

Yes Pete - I've never used Wishlists so overlooke that.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

smokie said:


> Yes Pete - I've never used Wishlists so overlooke that.


Never felt the need to set up TENNIS, FISHING or whatever as a Wishlist?

Also I find Wishlists very useful when you watch a program you have recorded some days or weeks earlier and want to record more of in future but find no Season Pass is available because next week the BBC or ITV is showing something else in that program's usual slot.

My Suggestions by chance caught about the last episode on ITV4 of that season of Randall & Hopkirk deceased (the original 1970 series) and finding I loved the program was disappointed to find there were no immediate future showings on ITV4 and so no SP I could set up. I theregore set up a Title Wishlist for Hopkirk and voila the recent daily showings that suddenly started on ITV4 have been recording with no problems using this means.


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## ronnieg (Jul 14, 2005)

Great  some good information there.

Some more questions
In Smokies set up 
V+ attached via HDMI. Presumably then the V+ interface is then visible and used via HDMI input and TIVO via AV1 input. This relies on a cooperative VM engineer splitting the incoming cable so that it goes to each box. 

Retained the original STB  how did you manage that without taking the VIP package simply by asking? BTW when I asked for Sky Sports I expected to pay  but they looked at my existing services and said they could apply a loyalty discount. They seem to have some really strange pricing.

3 tuners  so this means if you record on V+ it happens on internal tuners and you dont see which channel no you are currently on or recording on as with the standard box. On the 3rd tuner which is the external one the display shows the channel no?

It also sounds like (excuse the pun) the V+ can take advantage of home theatre set ups more if it has optical out. But does the V+ actually broadcast digital sound or better sound than the original STB to take advantage of this? If so that is another very good reason for using V+ as I also have a surround sound system (Yamaha all in one sound projector)

My problem though with this set up still remains the fact that I have no room for another box in my cabinet  but thats my problem!

Changing track a little on the setup  if I simply replace the cable box with V+ do we know that TIVO can control it? Is there a reliable code for changing channels. I use wands  if thats the things that stick out and are directed to the IR actually I only use 1. 
If I do that would I be able to record using TIVO from AV1 and so using the TIVO interface; and also use the menu and recording from V+ using HDMI input and be able to experience HD (though I agree that the content is limited so unlikely I would watch it much but would be nice to have the opportunity) In other words if I understand this, external recording using TIVO and internal recordings using V+ on HDMI input?

Sorry for all the continuing questions!


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## smokie (Dec 27, 2002)

ronnieg said:


> Great - some good information there.
> 
> Some more questions
> In Smokie's set up -
> ...


*Hope this helps.*


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

> This relies on a cooperative VM engineer splitting the incoming cable so that it goes to each box.


My experience is that the engineer will locate the boxes wherever within the same property.
They have to split the incoming cable ( mine splits into 3 2 STBs and Broadband)
The engineer left me enough cable and connectors to allow me to relocate one of my boxes to upstairs later if I wished.



> Retained the original STB - how did you manage that without taking the VIP package


There is a charge for the extra box. That is why in the end I opted for VIP package which at the time had free installation, it was a better value for money deal and gave me some things pretty much for free.



> It also sounds like (excuse the pun) the V+ can take advantage of home theatre set ups more if it has optical out.


If your surround system allows connect all the alternative inputs and use whatever is best. I generally have the audio output from TV connected so that whenever we change TV inputs the Amp plays whatever is on the TV. But I do have DVD, DVDrec and V+ connected by digital for use when I want DTS or DD 5:1



> My problem though with this set up still remains the fact that I have no room for another box in my cabinet


Try and find the space you will be glad of it. You can hide away the STB that Tivo is controlling and use a long scart to connect between it and Tivo.

I found extra space by taking out the virtually unused VCR from my AV stack. It now hides adajcent to the PC for when I get around to copying some very old tapes to DVD.


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## ronnieg (Jul 14, 2005)

How about this for a solution instead of using 2 cable boxes.

My TV has an inbuilt digital tuner so in essence freeview. So I connect TIVO to that instead of the cable box and record from the TV channels. Sure there will be some I get on cable that arent there but I only tend to use the 'mainstream' channells anyway.

Then I connect V+ to HDMI and use V+ on that input.

That way my terrestial aerial is going into my TV as it is now and I use the digital tuner with TIVO on watch live TV. I record using TIVO from the digital tuner and if I want to watch something else or record another program I use V+ on HDMI.
To watch my recorded programs I use TIVO or V+ 

Thats sounds too easy - am I missing something?


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

> Thats sounds too easy - am I missing something?


Yes, tivo won't be able to record with your TV turned off !


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

Tivo cannot control a TV inbuilt digital tuner.
If you want to use your Tivo with Freeview just buy a separate Freeview box they are cheap and most are much smaller than standard Sky or Cable boxes.

From the outset of V+ I tried using it with one of my Tivos and it really didn't give the best of either so reverted the Tivo to Freeview only


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

RichardJH said:


> Tivo cannot control a TV inbuilt digital tuner.


It can on some TVs - but the TV needs to be on (not in standby), so its pretty pointless.

If the size of a freeview box is still too much, there is one freeview tuner built into a scart plug - its £45 though!


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## ronnieg (Jul 14, 2005)

Knew it was too easy! 

Yes a freeview box might be a decent solution as it is much smaller than the cable box and I could possibly find room for it more easily.
That way it would take the place of my current cable box on AV1 and use V+ on HDMI. It also solves the problem of the remote changing both boxes.
Hopefully I have got that right!


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

In the end it will be your choice both in expenditure and size of box however if you have your cable on a higher package the second box is also on that package for no extra cost and depending on your family viewing options you could opt to move Tivo and STB to another room. If you still wanted to watch Tivo on main TV on occasions you could try a wireless sender


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## ronnieg (Jul 14, 2005)

good point but its just me and the missus now so no need for it in another room.
Plus I think I may have a spare freeview box lurking around - though need to check that its compatible with TIVO. 
I think thats going to be my route - thanks for all the replies on what is now a very interesting thread!


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## ronnieg (Jul 14, 2005)

Anyone heard of a v non cable box before - aimed at those without cable services in their area. Basically a freeview box but adantage is its size
- size of a VHS tape and can be placed vertically. 
Ah but can Tivo contol it - probably not!

Also came accross Cable receivers such as starview - illegal to use on VM though.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

> Anyone heard of a v non cable box before


http://www.broadband-finder.co.uk/n...able-virgin-broadband-customers_18108213.html


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## cyril (Sep 5, 2001)

ronnieg said:


> Anyone heard of a v non cable box before - aimed at those without cable services in their area. Basically a freeview box but adantage is its size
> - size of a VHS tape and can be placed vertically.
> Ah but can Tivo contol it - probably not!


As long as it uses standard IR, the codes can be emailed to Gary and added to the TiVo database.
So TiVo can control pretty much anything.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cyril said:


> As long as it uses standard IR, the codes can be emailed to Gary and added to the TiVo database.
> 
> So TiVo can control pretty much anything.


Good to know you are still reading Cyril.

How many Tivos have you got left in operation now?


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

ronnieg said:


> Anyone heard of a v non cable box before - aimed at those without cable services in their area. Basically a freeview box but adantage is its size
> - size of a VHS tape and can be placed vertically.
> Ah but can Tivo contol it - probably not!


You get the Virgin Freeview box free on their highest cost ADSL offering. It's a ploy to extend the reach of '3 play' customers they have with TV, phone and broadband outside their cabled areas. I honestly can't see any advantage to it other than they may be a little less fire and forget with software updates? Presumably people are offloading their freebies on ebay.

There are plenty of small, cheap Freeview boxes out there. A list of those that Tivo can control is here
http://www.garysargent.co.uk/tivo/stb.htm
There are a couple of threads on here about decent Freeview boxes that go with Tivo if you decide to go that route.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

ronnieg said:


> Anyone heard of a v non cable box before - aimed at those without cable services in their area. Basically a freeview box but adantage is its size
> - size of a VHS tape and can be placed vertically.
> Ah but can Tivo contol it - probably not!


http://www.virginmediainfo.co.uk/freeviewvbox.shtml

No idea about Tivo controlling it though


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## SteveUK (Oct 1, 2001)

Has there been a change to the V+ software in the past 7 months? I'm about to have the V+ installed but it seems as though I'll have to miss out on a couple of features provided by Tivo but not V+. I'm wondering if this is still the case and if so, what would be the best setup for me. I'm not going to be retiring the Tivo just yet and intend to keep hold of the old STB and have Tivo working along side V+.

So can anyone tell me if it's still true that V+ does not have a rolling buffer and that the buffer only gets used when you hit the pause button? And as a consequence, does this mean that when you hit the record button the recording does not include the previous 30 mins (or from the point the channel was last changed)?


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## ronnieg (Jul 14, 2005)

I had the V+ box installed at Christmas. I believe that the rolling buffer does work in that you can rewind whatever programme the external tuner is on (the program on your screen) but you cannot record those minutes from the buffer. In other words, as you say, when you press record V+ will start recording from that moment. So the buffer is only usefull if you can sit and watch it at that moment. 

I also have kept my cable box and it is working with Tivo still. But I have to admit I have had no cause to use it. My first instinct now is to turn on to V+ as it offers better picture quality (HDMI) and sound as I can link in my HT with the optical connection too. The menu for V+ I am getting used to and the only bit I dont like is that the current program is showing in a small box on the menu screen. Overall though I am I have to say impressed with V+ and can see that much as I am loyal to TIVO it wont be long before I remove it from my set up.


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## SteveUK (Oct 1, 2001)

Ok so that's not quite as bad. Not being able to rewind something you are viewing would be a bit of an oversight. I don't understand why it does not record the buffer along with the rest of the programme. It souldn't be that hard to do.


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## ronnieg (Jul 14, 2005)

Perhaps because recordings are done using the internal tuners?


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

No, as a beta tester this option worked on V+ (recording the buffer)
They broke it when they updated the software for release - not sure if it was deliberate or not (patents maybe?)

There have been a number of software updates since, but none have brought this feature back.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> They broke it when they updated the software for release - not sure if it was deliberate or not (patents maybe?)


Patents seems a likely reason. Surely some of the developers on these teams must be aware of Tivo and even have had access to one at some point in time

The marketing directors of Virgin etc are never going to admit that their product is ineferior to Tivo because they chose a cheaper solution. So instead the feature if just quietly dropped.


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## smokie (Dec 27, 2002)

I've now had V+ for quite a few weeks and the recording quality is very good. Disk space is the main issue for me, as the TiVo (still alive and kicking) turned into an archive of stuff we "might want to watch again" (but never ever do).

I output from V+ on HDMI (which disables all other outputs) and use optical sound to the home theatre. Very good it is too.

You can keep you original STB for &#163;5 a month. I'm also told that Virgin will now replace it with a V+ box for the installation fee (currently &#163;75) so you can have 2 V+ boxes, one for your HD output and the other to serve TiVo (and internally record)!

With more HD coming "in the spring" (if you believe the blurb) I'm glad I've got in now.

I won a Slingbox on eBay for a very good price yesterday so that will be my next little project...


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## SteveUK (Oct 1, 2001)

The V+ will always have the potential of better quality recording as it's not having to reencode the signal. In fact one of the nice things about the V+ is that your recording is exactly the same as the broadcast and no quality settings to mess around with.

I'm going to be keeping the old STB and leaving Tivo plugged into it. Not sure why. It will probably never get used once our old recordings have been viewed. Maybe because it would be a bit heart breaknig to unplug Tivo and pack it away. I was considering connecting it to the V+ and leave it in control of the viewing tuner but I'm not sure that would work very well and would also drop picture quality a bit.

Is the reason for dropping the buffer record feature a patent issue? I thought the V+ was essentially a rebadged Scientific Atlanta box - which does have this feature.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

SteveUK said:


> Is the reason for dropping the buffer record feature a patent issue? I thought the V+ was essentially a rebadged Scientific Atlanta box - which does have this feature.


That's true but the recording buffer is an attribute of the operating system and not the V+ hardware. So as a V+ Scientific Atlanta box does not run Tivo software that may be why the box cannot allowing recordings from the live buffer.

That may due either to the quality and stability of the V+ software itself or due to Tivo patent issues.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Patents seems a likely reason.


MCE and Sky+ both dump the buffer to a recording, so I doubt it's any kind of restriction.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> MCE and Sky+ both dump the buffer to a recording, so I doubt it's any kind of restriction.


Patents are often not just about the end facility or product though (i.e. dump buffer to recording) but the technologies used to produce it as well. So I wonder if the same box also runs Tivo software if there is more danger of patent infringement. Perhaps a cautious lawyer somewhere has decided not to take the risk.

No doubt if a particular piece of hardware is not also used by Tivo software then those issues largely go away.......


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

I'm pretty sure it's the Tivo software that controls the recording.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Raisltin Majere said:


> I'm pretty sure it's the Tivo software that controls the recording.


But a more paranoid lawyer may still see additional dangers of challenge where a particular piece of hardware is also used by the Tivo software platform.


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

If the software controls this feature, and it is Tivo software in use. How can there be a patent infringement?

Can tivo infringe on their own patent?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Raisltin Majere said:


> If the software controls this feature, and it is Tivo software in use. How can there be a patent infringement?
> 
> Can tivo infringe on their own patent?


Its the Virgin software doing the same thing as Tivo software on a box that also runs that Tivo software that is the issue. I agree that if it can be proved it is the operating system that contains the feature then Virgin may be safe but the fact that Tivo software runs on the same piece of hardware gives Tivo more potential angles for attack.

Virgin's lawyer might not want to take the risk.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

You're looking to hard for a conspiracy. Maybe the feature just didn't work reliably.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> You're looking to hard for a conspiracy.


Well yeah. It's Pete!!


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