# Watchmen - S01E04 "If You Don't Like My Story, Write Your Own" 11/10/2019 *spoilers*



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

More and more is being revealed. 

First, we have to talk about the creepiness of Adrian Veidt fishing babies out of the lake and then "growing" them into adults in his lab. That was just bizarre. But it seems he's definitely trying to figure out a way to escape and seems to have found it with the catapult. The bodies he flung into the sky seemed to abruptly disappear at some point. I wonder if he's in some kind of alternate-reality bubble. The part I don't understand is why he thinks that simply getting outside the bubble will set him free. For all he knows, the bubble is on Mars or the moon or Antarctica or in outer space and if he gets outside the bubble, he'll suffocate or freeze to death.

Lady Trieu is an interesting addition. The fact that she's working with Will Reeves is very intriguing. Will said that in three days, Angela is going to find out what he did and she's going to hate him. Does that mean he killed Judd? Clearly he's not a feeble old man in a wheelchair as he originally wanted her to believe. And when they said "tick-tock, tick-tock" at the end of that scene, was that because they're in league with or somehow behind the Seventh Kavalry? Or was that a reference to the giant Doomsday Clock?

Angela didn't seem all that surprised when Petey told her that Laurie Blake was the child of two of the original Minutemen. I wonder if she already knew. Or she's just really good at suppressing her emotions.

A few other things to discuss but can't remember specifics at this point. Your turn . . .


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

DevdogAZ said:


> But it seems he's definitely trying to figure out a way to escape and seems to have found it with the catapult. The bodies he flung into the sky seemed to abruptly disappear at some point. I wonder if he's in some kind of alternate-reality bubble.


Or a large-cosmic scale version of Angry Birds.

Lady Trieu offering a already-born baby to the egg couple for their farmland was creepier than the lobster traps full of infants. Maybe Trieu's kids are born via the same method as Veidt's servants? (which I still suspect are Dr Manhattan's created life forms)


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## cbrrider (Feb 2, 2005)

There is a history of genetic engineering/cloning from Veidt Enterprises (Bubastis, "Alien" Squids). When Lady Trieu acquired Veidt Enterprises, she acquired the technology. 

The baby is a clone from the barren parents' DNA. Bian is a clone of Lady Trieu with epigenetic memories of Lady Trieu. 

Mr. Phillips and Ms. Crookshanks are clones genetically engineered to serve Adrian Veidt, and the lake is some sort of gestational pool. 

Adrian Veidt is a prisoner of Lady Trieu. Dr. Manhatttan may have nothing to do with his imprisonment. Lady Trieu has the technology to provide Veidt with servants, land, and castle, even on the moon.

Interested in seeing what Will Reeves is planning.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

The one thing pointing to Dr. Manhattan being involved is that in that “Mars footage” from the first episode where we seen him, he’s creating and destroying a sand structure that’s identical to the building that Veidt is living in. That can’t be a coincidence.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

I swear we're going to see Veidt catapult himself out of a bubble on the moon, across the vastness of space, into a giant catchers mitt built by Trieu.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Oh yeah, what was that asteroid that hit just moments after Lady Trieu completed her acquisition of the farm? Seems pretty obvious she knew that was about to happen and that's why she needed them to sign the contract so fast. But it makes you wonder: If she knew about it far enough in advance to clone a baby, why not approach them in a more traditional manner and make an offer that doesn't feel like extortion? Or maybe does it not take her more than a few hours to clone a baby and she didn't know about that asteroid until shortly before it happened, which meant she didn't have time to prepare.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> [...] The part I don't understand is why he thinks that simply getting outside the bubble will set him free. For all he knows, the bubble is on Mars or the moon or Antarctica or in outer space and if he gets outside the bubble, he'll suffocate or freeze to death.


You're maybe forgetting that in the previous episode, we saw him using a clone to test some sort of "space suit" looking getup.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

On the /FilmDaily podcast (they are doing a weekly Monday Watchmen ep) one host pointed out that Lady Trieu was a female warrior akin to Joan of Arc
Lady Triệu - Wikipedia
And elephants were associated with her, hence all the elephant imagery around Lady Trieu's place


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## cbrrider (Feb 2, 2005)

Dr. Manhattan has distanced himself from humanity. He basically endorsed Veidt's plan of genocide to save humanity at the end of the graphic novel and movie. Why would he imprison/punish Veidt 22 years later? Lady Trieu on the other hand ...


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I don't think I would describe it as genocide in the Comic.
The movie gave a really strong reason for Dr. Manhattan not to return to earth, but not so much in the comic (looks like the HBO version is following closer to the comic as far as the ending is concerned)
And Dr. Manhattan's decision to remain silent after the fact (in both the comic and the movie) is not really an endorsement, but a decision that to _not_ remain silent would make matters worse.


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## cbrrider (Feb 2, 2005)

3 million people is not a genocide?


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

cbrrider said:


> 3 million people is not a genocide?


I couldn't call 3M New Yorkers a genocide. Genocide is commonly defined as a conspiracy to exterminate national, religious or racial groups.

One of the wilder YT-commenter theories about Lady Trieu:


Spoiler



Is that she is the daughter of Eddie Blake/The Comedian. He shot a pregnant woman carrying his child in the original Watchmen story. And it's presumed that Dr Manhattan saved the baby she was carrying.


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## cbrrider (Feb 2, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> More and more is being revealed.
> 
> Will said that in three days, Angela is going to find out what he did and she's going to hate him. Does that mean he killed Judd?


He already told Angela "I'm the one who strung up your chief of police." [What a great scene.] So, there must be something else. Perhaps, he made a deal with Lady Trieu to receive some genetic enhancements to regain use of his legs or reverse aging?


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## cbrrider (Feb 2, 2005)

Saturn_V said:


> I couldn't call 3M New Yorkers a genocide. Genocide is commonly defined as a conspiracy to exterminate national, religious or racial groups.


New Yorkers don't count? Okay, then let's call it mass murder.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Veidt’s intent (in the comic) was not to exterminate all of New York City.


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## cbrrider (Feb 2, 2005)

Spoiler






Saturn_V said:


> One of the wilder YT-commenter theories about Lady Trieu:
> Is that she is the daughter of Eddie Blake/The Comedian. He shot a pregnant woman carrying his child in the original Watchmen story. And it's presumed that Dr Manhattan saved the baby she was carrying.


Manhattan decides to do nothing to save the mother, and decides to save the unborn child after the fact? I find that hard to believe from an entity that said "A live body and a dead body contain the same number of particles. Structurally, there's no discernible difference. Life and death are unquantifiable abstracts. Why should I be concerned?"

Not to say Lady Trieu isn't the same unborn child. The mother was in the late stages of pregnancy and the fetus would be mature enough survive a spontaneous delivery as the mother lay dying.


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## cbrrider (Feb 2, 2005)

Tony_T said:


> Veidt's intent (in the comic) was not to exterminate all of New York City.


Intent doesn't really matter, Veidt knew the consequences of the attack as did the Comedian, Rorschach, Dr Manhattan, Dan Dreiberg and Laurie Juspeczyk/Blake. They all knew there would be mass casualties if the plan was enacted.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

But genocide isn't "mass casualties"; it's very specific mass casualties. Veidt's mass murder was not at all specific.


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## cbrrider (Feb 2, 2005)

I still say New Yorkers count as a group, but it doesn't really matter. Let's just call it mass murder. It's not any less horrific.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Veidt wanted to prevent the genocide of all humanity. Not defending his methods, but he averted nuclear disaster and potentially deaths of billions of people.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

No talk about lubeman yet???

Gotta be Petey right?


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## cbrrider (Feb 2, 2005)

Gotta be. Lol.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I probably forgot but what's the backstory of Amgela's kids who don't look anything like her or her husband?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> I probably forgot but what's the backstory of Amgela's kids who don't look anything like her or her husband?


It's not just her...it seems to be everybody. Probably some kind of nightmare liberal law to integrate families..?


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## caslu (Jun 24, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> I probably forgot but what's the backstory of Amgela's kids who don't look anything like her or her husband?


Her partner was killed during the White Night massacre and the kids were his, she and her husband adopted them.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

So at the suggestion of some folks, I went back and watched the movie, which as just okay, mostly boring until toward the end. Then I went back and watch this episode to see if watching the movie helped clarify what's going on here. Not really. There seems to be only passing references to most of the characters in the movie. So, no, the movie didn't help all that much. I'm trying to like this as much as you all and a lot of critics, but I'm just not loving it. I'll give it one more. Maybe as we go along there will be more clarity.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> So at the suggestion of some folks, I went back and watched the movie, which as just okay, mostly boring until toward the end. Then I went back and watch this episode to see if watching the movie helped clarify what's going on here. Not really. There seems to be only passing references to most of the characters in the movie. So, no, the movie didn't help all that much. I'm trying to like this as much as you all and a lot of critics, but I'm just not loving it. I'll give it one more. Maybe as we go along there will be more clarity.


Without spoiling anything, you really don't need to have read the graphic novel or watched that movie to enjoy this show. They really do explain everything that is needed

This is probably in my top 5 favorite shows this decade and easily top 10 of all time.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

MikeMar said:


> Without spoiling anything, you really don't need to have read the graphic novel or watched that movie to enjoy this show. They really do explain everything that is needed
> 
> This is probably in my top 5 favorite shows this decade and easily top 10 of all time.


OK thanks. It was only suggested to me that if I watched the movie I might get a better grasp of what was going on, because the show was (is?) losing me. I guess it's just not my cup of tea. For me it just feels like a confusing mess.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> OK thanks. It was only suggested to me that if I watched the movie I might get a better grasp of what was going on, because the show was (is?) losing me. I guess it's just not my cup of tea. For me it just feels like a confusing mess.


It's not confusing because you haven't seen the previous stuff; it's confusing because they let information out at their own pace. But it all comes together eventually.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> OK thanks. It was only suggested to me that if I watched the movie I might get a better grasp of what was going on, because the show was (is?) losing me. I guess it's just not my cup of tea. For me it just feels like a confusing mess.


It all comes together!


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It's not confusing because you haven't seen the previous stuff; it's confusing because they let information out at their own pace. But it all comes together eventually.





MikeMar said:


> It all comes together!


My issue with this type of thing is always this. How many episodes am I supposed to give a show before that happens in a landscape where there are dozens of shows I want to watch and have trouble finding time to do so. As it was, I put this show on hold for a month because I wanted to watch 5 or 6 other shows I preferred. Obviously for some of you (maybe most of you), the show grabbed you from the beginning and you are willing to give it time. I'm not sure I am. I find myself 20 minutes into the show bored and reaching for my phone. That's why I say, I'm not sure this show is for me. Nothing about it is holding my interest. I'm sticking with it because everyone tells me how great it is. But everyone has told me how great other shows are, and I just didn't see it.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

Well, if you don't like this story, write your own.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> My issue with this type of thing is always this. How many episodes am I supposed to give a show ...


If you're not enjoying it at this point, then I would suggest you stop watching it. I don't mean this in a snarky way at all. Personally I enjoyed this series far more when it was confusing and less when it came together. The confusing nature made me think, and I like TV series that I have to spend some extra time thinking about. I feel it is designed to appeal to that sort of viewer.

I had seen the movie so I knew the basic premise, but only had vague memories of the plot. I rewatched the movie somewhere around half-way through the season -- not because I felt I had to, but because the series made me want to relive the movie experience. The TV series does eventually tell you everything you need to know.


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