# Will Tivo HD get the new HD interface?



## KXH (Jan 26, 2006)

Does anyone have any idea if the TIVO HD's will get the new HD interface pushed to them?


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## AZ_Tivo (Jan 17, 2005)

KXH said:


> Does anyone have any idea if the TIVO HD's will get the new HD interface pushed to them?


No. They say that THD cannot support the new interface.


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## asarathy (Sep 19, 2007)

And because of this I can no longer Support Tivo... Hello Moxi


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## turbobozz (Sep 21, 2006)

S3 platform is too slow to handle the new UI.
(It's slow enough already.)
Why would you demand TiVo make your S3 platform box even slower?


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

asarathy said:


> And because of this I can no longer Support Tivo... Hello Moxi


Are you interested in selling your HD?


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## techmonkey (Jan 13, 2009)

(Original Message: 
Quote:
Originally Posted by asarathy View Post
And because of this I can no longer Support Tivo... Hello Moxi)



janry said:


> Are you interested in selling your HD?


Yeah along with your copy of Windows 98?  Tee Hee! Just kidding! Sorry you are no longer happy with your Tivo


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## asarathy (Sep 19, 2007)

janry said:


> Are you interested in selling your HD?


Yeah I am looking into my options right now. I was little glib. It's not just the UI, but rather the underwhelming feature list that came with Premiere.


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## asarathy (Sep 19, 2007)

turbobozz said:


> S3 platform is too slow to handle the new UI.
> (It's slow enough already.)
> Why would you demand TiVo make your S3 platform box even slower?


They could have made the s3 UI HD without flash. They are choosing not to.


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## KXH (Jan 26, 2006)

AZ_Tivo said:


> No. They say that THD cannot support the new interface.


 and 

I guess i too will be done with Tivo after my 1 year contract ends. Just seems like a very stupid move on Tivo's part.


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## sirchip (Oct 16, 2005)

moxi very interesting...


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

sirchip said:


> moxi very interesting...


Last I heard, no OTA with moxi. That's a deal killer for me.


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## asarathy (Sep 19, 2007)

janry said:


> Last I heard, no OTA with moxi. That's a deal killer for me.


It has an adapter that allows it to be 1 tuner OTA. But it's designed for Cable. But honestly, it's kind of a non issue if you are using a cable card anyway.


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## csm10495 (Nov 15, 2008)

Flash NOT on old TiVos is a good thing

This might be a blessing in disguise, because flash is the easiest way to make ads. Think about it, tivo could easily put ads over everything (imagine pausing the game and seeing a flash video ad pop up) The ENTIRE discovery bar is an ad in itself. They can easily get advertisers because most are very familiar with flash. Basically they could port internet ads to the tivo just make em bigger and louder. :down:

Even better: they can eventually make it so while fast forwarding you have to watch a commercial, maybe disable that 30 second skip 

If their were to be ads all over (more than now) with sound and movement then.... you know what? I'll stay with good'ol Tivo HD, for now, it can get the job done, almost ad free :up:

I wouldnt mind paying for a box and not ever paying a subscription rate but have a bunch of ads, but if i pay for it, few or no ads 

If flash is used with just the consumer in mind, then it will be good, otherwise sadly it could be the end of tivo cause cable DVR doesn't have that much advertising


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## asarathy (Sep 19, 2007)

asarathy said:


> It has an adapter that allows it to be 1 tuner OTA. But it's designed for Cable. But honestly, it's kind of a non issue if you are using a cable card anyway.


Actually I Take that back, it's a dongle for Analog Cable.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

asarathy said:


> It has an adapter that allows it to be 1 tuner OTA. But it's designed for Cable. But honestly, it's kind of a non issue if you are using a cable card anyway.


It's NEVER a non-issue...your cable goes out, then whaddya got? Even if it only happens occasionally (as it does here), I am VERY happy I have OTA capability with my S3 and HD units.


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

asarathy said:


> Yeah I am looking into my options right now. I was little glib. It's not just the UI, but rather the underwhelming feature list that came with Premiere.


But that's no reason to get rid of your Series 3 or HD. They didn't have that when you bought them and I assume you knew that.



asarathy said:


> It has an adapter that allows it to be 1 tuner OTA. But it's designed for Cable. But honestly, it's kind of a non issue if you are using a cable card anyway.


No, I much prefer OTA to cable for local broadcast. There is a noticeable difference in the audio quality, which I guess is due to the cable company compressing the signal. I have cable for ESPN and movies.


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## asarathy (Sep 19, 2007)

Bierboy said:


> It's NEVER a non-issue...your cable goes out, then whaddya got? Even if it only happens occasionally (as it does here), I am VERY happy I have OTA capability with my S3 and HD units.


Well, my cable rarely goes out, and even if it did, I don't have an antennae, and even if I did, I would need to switch the entire guide/system to be tuned for antennae instead of cable, and make sure that my season passes worked correctly (HD Channels of Broadcast channels are seperate Season Passes) so it's going to end up being a real pain to switch just for a day or so until cable comes back, so that's why I said kind of a non issue. Obviously, too each their own, and whats important to you is important to you.


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## asarathy (Sep 19, 2007)

janry said:


> But that's no reason to get rid of your Series 3 or HD. They didn't have that when you bought them and I assume you knew that.
> 
> No, I much prefer OTA to cable for local broadcast. There is a noticeable difference in the audio quality, which I guess is due to the cable company compressing the signal. I have cable for ESPN and movies.


I knew that. And it, by itself is not an the reason to get rid of the Tivo. But on my HD Tivo, I didn't get a lifetime because though I found Tivo's DVR functionality to be the best by far, I knew newer technology was coming, and I didn't feel like being locked in (I knew this would happen). But when I get my Tivo HD, I was in one point in my life, and now I am at another, so things like multiroom viewing are becoming more important to me. Additionally The Tivo Box is slow as heck (editing Season Passes for example, and general slugishness), and I wanted to go with something more responsive.

I was waiting to see what Tivo was going to offer before deciding what to do next, and frankly their new offering is not enough. I want multiroom viewing, and I don't want to pay for a box AND a subscription to do that. I know that I could us the TivoToGo, but too many shows are copy flagged, and the slow transfer speed doesn't help when my wife wants to watch Oprah upstairs when I want to watch Lost. So because I am paying a monthly fee (well yearly) and am not locked in, I figure sell my Tivo for whatever I can get, and upgrade to something that has more features, costs less (if you include up front lifetime service) and doesn't push a ton of ads.

Now, had they thrown me a bone and addressed some of my issues (fixed the performance of the HDs, made they UI native HD at least) maybe I would have lived with the shortcomings and continued to pay them money, but at this point it doesn't seem worth it.


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## tivohaydon (Mar 24, 2001)

janry said:


> But that's no reason to get rid of your Series 3 or HD. They didn't have that when you bought them and I assume you knew that.


TiVo had a history of releasing software updates that provided cool new features. I'm sure I wasn't the only one that bought a S3 assuming the same was going to be true in the future. But it appears that's not the case. I never believed that my $13/mo was only for guide data or for the thrill of being able to turn the unit on. I believed it was also for continued software development for my product.

S2 was exciting for a short while. However that excitement slowed to a crawl and I've seen very little innovation from TiVo since. Our relationship will soon be ending. I can no longer recommend them over a provider's DVR, or for more technical users MCE.

For what it's worth, I've been with TiVo from S1 (one) days, had S2 (one) units and S2 DirectTV units (four) and now S3 (two).


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

asarathy said:


> And because of this I can no longer Support Tivo... Hello Moxi


Does Moxi support the new TiVo HD interface?


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## carios23 (Jan 19, 2009)

Kablemodem said:


> Does Moxi support the new TiVo HD interface?


No, but that might not be a bad thing.


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## asarathy (Sep 19, 2007)

Kablemodem said:


> Does Moxi support the new TiVo HD interface?


No, but it does support an HD interface. I don't need what the premiere has, but I do want something designed for HD. I was a little too glib before, but I am underwhelmed by the Premiere, and tired of the HD. I could have continued to pay for service on the HD if a few bones were thrown my way, but Alas it was not be. Perhaps Tivo will someday regain my affection and wish it the best, but they are being lapped by the competitors when it comes to features and innovation.


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## obsidian (Mar 24, 2008)

turbobozz said:


> S3 platform is too slow to handle the new UI.
> (It's slow enough already.)
> Why would you demand TiVo make your S3 platform box even slower?


I know right? I mean has anyone even used the beta search? If they were to push it out, people would be complaining like crazy at how slow it was.


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

tivohaydon said:


> TiVo had a history of releasing software updates that provided cool new features. I'm sure I wasn't the only one that bought a S3 assuming the same was going to be true in the future. But it appears that's not the case. I never believed that my $13/mo was only for guide data or for the thrill of being able to turn the unit on. I believed it was also for continued software development for my product.


I'd never spend hundreds of dollars on a product assuming I'd only be happy with it IF they did something to improve it. The two TiVo's I've owned (Series 1 and HD) did what I expected them to do when I bought them. I wasn't expecting anything more.

I've been a TiVo owner for 8 or 9 years. The only update in software I've received that in anyway upgraded the unit for MY purposes, was a bust (opening the SATA connector for the MyDVRExpander). I'm just not going to get upset if the unit continues to do what it did when I bought it.


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## asarathy (Sep 19, 2007)

janry said:


> I'd never spend hundreds of dollars on a product assuming I'd only be happy with it IF they did something to improve it. The two TiVo's I've owned (Series 1 and HD) did what I expected them to do when I bought them. I wasn't expecting anything more.
> 
> I've been a TiVo owner for 8 or 9 years. The only update in software I've received that in anyway upgraded the unit for MY purposes, was a bust (opening the SATA connector for the MyDVRExpander). I'm just not going to get upset if the unit continues to do what it did when I bought it.


Upset is not the issue. But I can be disappointed in a product that I love not meeting standards in innovation I had hoped for, And I no longer have to support that product if it's not meeting the needs I have for it now. The problem is that Tivo set it self up as a subscription model. And as a subscription model, you have to keep your subscribers happy. Your needs and expectations may not have grown, but a lot of other peoples have, and they feel , rightly or wrongly, that some of those expectations probably could be meet to some extent on the current hardware, and they aren't in attempt to push new hardware. But if they are pushing new hardware, and people start looking, maybe that new hardware isn't provided by Tivo and Tivo loses the revenue.


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## doogledb (Mar 25, 2008)

Interesting that Premier is running Flash which someone above pointed out that this makes it easier to add ads. Adding more ads is Tivo's new business model - they are desparately trying to finally make a profit at this. This new box is not to add functionality but to facilitate there new business model.


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## uw69 (Jan 25, 2001)

doogledb said:


> Interesting that Premier is running Flash which someone above pointed out that this makes it easier to add ads. Adding more ads is Tivo's new business model - they are desparately trying to finally make a profit at this. This new box is not to add functionality but to facilitate there new business model.


+1 I can't imagine that the new UI and search features would convince many folks to buy a gen 4 Tivo.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

doogledb said:


> Interesting that Premier is running Flash which someone above pointed out that this makes it easier to add ads. Adding more ads is Tivo's new business model - they are desparately trying to finally make a profit at this. This new box is not to add functionality but to facilitate there new business model.


Using flash does not make it easier to add ads. None of the current ad systems that exist today that use flash would work on the TiVo platform. TiVo already has a way to use ads in their software. Using flash doesn't change anything. I'm afraid people will often be confusing designing a UI in flash and the use of flash on the web. The two are completely separate.


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## bschuler2007 (Feb 25, 2007)

LOL.. Really? How are they different? Flash is flash, right? That's like saying Windows Xp on my laptop is completely different from Windows Xp on my desktop. 
Sure the ads would have to be changed for the Tivo.. but I'm sure the modifications would be minimal, such as hit select instead of spacebar.


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## TWinbrook46636 (Feb 9, 2008)

Plus there is talk of third-party Flash application support. Sounds like a really bad idea to me. There is a reason Apple runs their app store with an iron fist. If TiVo doesn't have a similar approval process you'll have apps crashing TiVo's left and right, maybe even causing them to be sent in for repair. Of course you'll have developers crying fowl if their app is not approved and people "jailbreaking" their TiVos to install unauthorized/unapproved apps which completely ruin their TiVo and then cry about it when TiVo does not repair them. Is TiVo really up for this?


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## SNJpage1 (May 25, 2006)

You bought your S3 or HD based on what it could do at the time. There was nothing said about in the future doing other things. Its the same as buying a TV. You buy one with two Hdmi inputs which is what you needed at the time. You dont think that the company that made the TV is going to upgrade it to three inputs because you now have a need for three?


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## houman (Aug 2, 2007)

I was hoping that Tivo would make some changes to the Tivo HD (flash or not), my prepaid 3 year subscription expires sometimes in October, and I called and found out I don't qualify for the $99 lifetime plan, and was told it'd be $400 but was offered a $100 discount to get it for $300... which I said no thanks.

Tivo HD has worked really well for me, and with the 1TB upgrade I did back then, I have been able to enjoy it. I was hoping Tivo would announce their "next gen" device to have more than 2 tuners, but no luck, also I am not too hot on flash interface.

I am thinking I'll move on to an HTPC w/ Win7 & Ceton card next.

My 2c,

Houman


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

The more I look at screenshots of the new interface, the happier I am with what I've got now. There are some features I like, but for the most part it looks like they're working on inventive ways to add more advertisements.


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## TiVo Fool (Dec 17, 2001)

SNJpage1 said:


> You bought your S3 or HD based on what it could do at the time. There was nothing said about in the future doing other things. Its the same as buying a TV. You buy one with two Hdmi inputs which is what you needed at the time. You dont think that the company that made the TV is going to upgrade it to three inputs because you now have a need for three?


My TV has received three software updates to add new features since I bought it six months ago!


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

SNJpage1 said:


> You bought your S3 or HD based on what it could do at the time. There was nothing said about in the future doing other things.


Yeah, but Tivo has a track record of adding improvements. Look at what the S2's can do now vs. when they were released.
To some extent, the same goes for the Series 3's, and people have come to expect that.
If Tivo is going to cease improving the Series 3, they need to tell us NOW so we can decide whether or not to jump ship.


heySkippy said:


> The more I look at screenshots of the new interface, the happier I am with what I've got now. There are some features I like, but for the most part it looks like they're working on inventive ways to add more advertisements.


+1


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

bschuler2007 said:


> LOL.. Really? How are they different? Flash is flash, right? That's like saying Windows Xp on my laptop is completely different from Windows Xp on my desktop.
> Sure the ads would have to be changed for the Tivo.. but I'm sure the modifications would be minimal, such as hit select instead of spacebar.


yes - in fact the whole reason TiVo went to Flash is likely many partners said - well, we really do not have the resources to write something in this HME you have. Now if you had something we do already like Flash then it is a short project to tweak our stuff for running on a TV screen.

Now my expectation is that this includes far more than just ads - sport stats, stock, severe weather, caller id, RSS feeds, content providers, etc...
and ads of interest to me like Movie trailers.


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## Stuckeyboss (Apr 28, 2003)

I echo the sentiment made by others that this announcement was a blow to HD and S3 owners. If had stuck with my series 2 boxes, I might consider a Series 4 - but at this point I'm really questioning whether I need a TiVo at all. The S3/HD needed some love - I'm not talking crazy whiz-bang - just UI clean-up and tightening. The whole thing was starting to feel like a Jenga tower of features.

TiVo has made their choice - they're moving away from their old architecture and moving forward with a new one. That's cool - I'm just not going to go with them. The cable company boxes are 'good enough' for DVR (the on-demand features also make a sizeable dent in TiVo's previous tech advantage) and new tech like the Boxee Box meets/exceeds the other capabilities TiVo was bringing to the table.

So, the Series 3 will live its life - but I will not be throwing more cash at TiVo for a replacement.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

bschuler2007 said:


> LOL.. Really? How are they different? Flash is flash, right? That's like saying Windows Xp on my laptop is completely different from Windows Xp on my desktop.
> Sure the ads would have to be changed for the Tivo.. but I'm sure the modifications would be minimal, such as hit select instead of spacebar.


A lot of people know flash because it is used by a lot of companies to create interactive ads. However, the fact that TiVo uses flash for their UI doesn't mean it will be easier for those companies to create ads for the TiVo platform. What UI TiVo choose only matters in a sense that there are a lot of mature flash tools to create UIs already. This means they will probably open up a system for developers to create apps. The tools available to create banner ads aren't going to work on a TiVo UI (especially since no interactivity is possible with a remote compared to a mouse).


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

asarathy said:


> And because of this I can no longer Support Tivo... Hello Moxi


Welcome to the dark side.

And Ill sell my TivoHD. I even have the upgraded backlit remote for it. PM me if anyone is interested.

I love Tivo, Ive been a fan for years and owned a bunch of them. I just cant get behind Tivo's lack of customer service any longer tho.


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

Did you have a billing issue or something?


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## T1V0 (Jun 14, 2006)

releasing new hardware with new features and not backporting those features to legacy hardware is poor customer service

did I get that right?


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## houman (Aug 2, 2007)

well, let's put it this way, people who spend lot of money into Tivo HD & Series 3 are the same people who helped Tivo square away all the problems with different problems that happened with Cable Card (i.e sending diagnostics to Tivo, participating in Tivo Beta series, etc).

I am not bitter in any case toward Tivo, as I have enjoyed my Time with the HD model and it has worked great w/o hiccups lately, but I guess I am a little bit disapointed on two fronts:

- Lack of any sort of future updates for the HD/Series 3 model, though I understand they want to sell the newer models to make $, and that the HD/Series 3 are probably not advanced enough to run the UI.

- Lack of upgrade $ deals to lifetime for the few of us who have been on the boat with them for sometimes. I was a bit expecting maybe some deals to upgrade my current Tivo HD to lifetime or to Premiere/Lifetime. 

Also the new upgrade won't bring Comcast on demand, no Hulu (even though they're doing it in Flash -- maybe future updates ?), it seems spending extra $ to get the newer model + lifetime service won't buy you much from the current Tivo HD/Series 3. 

I am going the HTPC route with 4 tuners in a month, but we'll see how it works out 

My $0.02

Houman


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## mamosley (Apr 9, 2003)

asarathy said:


> And because of this I can no longer Support Tivo... Hello Moxi


I bought a moxi and had it plugged in for 6 hours before I disconnected it. It has potential but I just couldnt get used to the menus and how they interacted with the remote. Same button has different affects on the menu depending where you are at in the menu. Oh yeah, and if you do decide to return it, their statement on their web site that refunds may take up to 4 weeks but generally is much less is much false. 4 weeks and counting for my refund.


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## mamosley (Apr 9, 2003)

janry said:


> Are you interested in selling your HD?


 I will be selling one of my Tivo HDs after the premier gets here.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

houman said:


> - Lack of any sort of future updates for the HD/Series 3 model, though I understand they want to sell the newer models to make $, and that the HD/Series 3 are probably not advanced enough to run the UI.
> 
> - Lack of upgrade $ deals to lifetime for the few of us who have been on the boat with them for sometimes. I was a bit expecting maybe some deals to upgrade my current Tivo HD to lifetime or to Premiere/Lifetime.


the internet radio and Framework for more downloaded content was anounced at the same time as an update to S3

there are some good upgrade deals outlined on TiVo web site - log into your account at www.tivo.com and check it out


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

T1V0 said:


> releasing new hardware with new features and not backporting those features to legacy hardware is poor customer service
> 
> did I get that right?


No. It is what you agreed to:



> 6. Changes to Your TiVo Service. TiVo may at its discretion and from time to time change, add, or remove features and functionality of the TiVo service or the TiVo DVR without notice. If you are dissatisfied with any such changes to the TiVo service, you may cancel your use of the TiVo service as provided in Section 15 ("Termination of Service"). TiVo reserves the right to discontinue one, some, or all of the features of the TiVo service you receive at any time at its discretion. *TiVo may at its discretion discontinue the provision of software updates to certain TiVo DVRs.* This means that while other TiVo DVRs may receive continued software updates and functionality; TiVo is not required to provide such updates to your TiVo DVR. Additionally, the level of service TiVo provides may not be the same on each TiVo DVR; a given TiVo DVR may support different features and functionality, and *TiVo is under no obligation to provide all features and functionality to your TiVo DVR.*


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## Doctorhifi (Apr 15, 2002)

Just talked to Tivo customer support to see what they would do for me, having JUST bought an HD XL (3 months ago) directly from them. 

Add to that the fact that I am a loyal Tivo customer for over 10 years (I bought one of the first Sony models right on the floor of a tradeshow way back when) and have lifetime service contracts on my Tivos.

Wanted to see if I could upgrademy HD XL to a Premiere model.

Guess what? Nada. Nothing more that the advertised $200 off lifetime service on a new Premiere.
Bummer.


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## majortom (Apr 17, 2002)

bschuler2007 said:


> LOL.. Really? How are they different? Flash is flash, right?


Nope. There are several different levels of Flash (lite, embedded, mobile, _etc._). I am pretty sure they are using one of the lighter versions.



> That's like saying Windows Xp on my laptop is completely different from Windows Xp on my desktop.


No again. It is like saying that Windows 7 on your laptop is completely different from Windows 7 Mobile on your phone. They use the same name (Flash) but are not the same.



> Sure the ads would have to be changed for the Tivo.. but I'm sure the modifications would be minimal, such as hit select instead of spacebar.


Some might need small changes, but most would need large changes (most Flash applications are written for full Flash, not any of the subsets). In addition, I am betting that TiVo would require applications fit in a particular framework in order to work within their environment.

/carmi


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

Kablemodem said:


> Did you have a billing issue or something?


No.. I had issues with the TivoHD itself. Ive told this story a couple of times but in a nutshell, here's a synopsis.

I relocated and needed a new Tivo. I called Tivo's customer service department and told them "Hey look, Im moving. I want to use OTA for locals and basic cable for everything else. What do I need?"

They of course told me to get the TivoHD.

So.. I go out, buy one and bring it home and hook it up. I had some network issues and managed to get the box setup and some guide data downloaded them I took the Tivo off the network until I could fix the problem. Well, when I finally got around to putting the Tivo back on the network, it updated its software and the analog bug started in. I didnt know anything about the analog bug so I thought it was an HDMI issue or something. I chased my tail for about a week trying to figure it out and finally found mention of it here. So, I called Tivo and was told "Oh yea, we're aware of that and working on a fix." So like an idiot, I waited.

Then I contacted one of the Tivo employees that posts here. The reply I received was very rude and did absolutely nothing to resolve the problem. In fact, Id say it was the rudest email Ive ever received from someone who is supposed to represent a company.

At that point, I decided Id had enough. I ordered a Moxi and yanked the TivoHD out of my entertainment center. Its gathering dust underneath my bed as the prepaid year subscription I paid for wastes away. Even after all this time, the analog bug hasnt been fixed and Tivo doesnt give a rats ass about it. I bought this unit based off of their recommendations. They knew it wasn't going to work and recommended it anyway.

I do miss Tivo. There are things it does better than Moxi, especially from a streaming standpoint. However, the Moxi works and gets better with every software release. They also have a MUCH better customer support team than Tivo has, which is a shame because at one point, Tivo was on the ball, now, not so much. Moxi also streams Hulu through PlayOn and that's a huge plus for me.


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

KungFuCow said:


> I do miss Tivo. There are things it does better than Moxi, especially from a streaming standpoint.


Can you elaborate on that for us?



> the Moxi ... gets better with every software release.


Hmmm I remember when TiVo was that way.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

mamosley said:


> I bought a moxi and had it plugged in for 6 hours before I disconnected it. I


Wow, 6 whole hours. That is a whole lot of effort you put in to learn about it... :down:


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

KungFuCow said:


> Even after all this time, the analog bug hasnt been fixed and Tivo doesnt give a rats ass about it.


how do you know it is not fixed if the TiVo is not plugged in. There has not been any big anouncement of any fix but - I had one TiVo upstairs in the bedroom that had grey screened about once every 2 weeks - then after some minor update it stopped and I have not seen it since - this was 6 months ago I think.


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## SeattleBrad (Jul 19, 2002)

turbobozz said:


> S3 platform is too slow to handle the new UI.
> (It's slow enough already.)
> Why would you demand TiVo make your S3 platform box even slower?


I'm not sure what you guys are smokin. This "new" interface is already available on my Series 3 HD. The only difference? It's marked Beta. See photos.


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

houman said:


> I was hoping that Tivo would make some changes to the Tivo HD (flash or not), my prepaid 3 year subscription expires sometimes in October, and I called and found out I don't qualify for the $99 lifetime plan, and was told it'd be $400 but was offered a $100 discount to get it for $300... which I said no thanks.
> 
> Tivo HD has worked really well for me, and with the 1TB upgrade I did back then, I have been able to enjoy it. I was hoping Tivo would announce their "next gen" device to have more than 2 tuners, but no luck, also I am not too hot on flash interface.
> 
> ...


This was the main thing I was hoping for. Since M cards support more tuners, I was sure they would at least meet Moxi's 3. There are many, many times that I need more tuners, but that forces me to move other programs to another Tivo (but wait, I can't schedule another Tivo from the one I am using, like ReplayTV did years ago). If MRV was streaming and/or faster, it wouldn't bother me...(OK that is another upgrade I was hoping for so I guess it is worse than I thought)....


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## WizarDru (Jan 18, 2005)

SeattleBrad said:


> I'm not sure what you guys are smokin. This "new" interface is already available on my Series 3 HD. The only difference? It's marked Beta.


I think the difference is that the Flash-based implementation of the menu system on the Premiere is actually not slower than DEATH. Though it's still not what you'd call fast, either.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I've been a loyal TiVo customer for 4 years plus 4 years with DirecTV TiVo's. I called TiVo yesterday to see about upgrading my second Series 3 to a Premier. I was told that I am only going to get $100 off the XL model and I would have to pay $9.95 a month now instead of the $6.95 that I was paying before on my second TiVo Series 3 series plan. I am month to month.

I called BS and was transferred to a manager who told me the same thing.

I said that I would like a better deal and was told you will not get a better deal.

Now I am a customer that bought (2) TiVo Series 3's the week they came out for $700 each and have had both of them replaced twice and have had cable cards replaced several times as well. EVERY time I called TiVo to report an issue that needed a replacement it was a hassle and they wanted to charge me for refurbished boxes.

I am one foot out the door with TiVo and am really considering the Moxi.

We will see...


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

solutionsetc said:


> Can you elaborate on that for us?
> 
> Hmmm I remember when TiVo was that way.


Moxi doesnt actually store the show youre streaming. It also seems to transfer REALLY slow, like almost at the speed youre watching it at. You also can not FFWD/RWD through a show youre streaming but you can quick skip/back the show. Moxi claims this is by design. Im hoping it gets better in a future software release. It was just implemented in the last release.

Their guide I think is better than Tivos and the menus are a little more fleshed out than Tivo.. you dont have to drill down quite so deep to find stuff.

The remote does take some getting used to but once you figure it out, its no big deal. I use a Logitech universal and Ive only had to add one button that I needed since setting it up.


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## RealityCheck (Feb 15, 2007)

orangeboy said:


> No. It is what you agreed to:


So, based on that language, TiVo can decide at their discretion, to cease providing all functionality to the DVR. If you're a contracted or lifetime subscriber, you have no recourse. At this point, I wouldn't put it past TiVo to invoke that clause.


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## RealityCheck (Feb 15, 2007)

ZeoTiVo said:


> yes - in fact the whole reason TiVo went to Flash is likely many partners said - well, we really do not have the resources to write something in this HME you have. Now if you had something we do already like Flash then it is a short project to tweak our stuff for running on a TV screen.
> 
> Now my expectation is that this includes far more than just ads - sport stats, stock, severe weather, caller id, RSS feeds, content providers, etc...
> and ads of interest to me like Movie trailers.


 TiVo could achieve the same ends with HTML5, JavaScript, and WebKit. It's also a lot less CPU intensive than flash (and should be adequately handled by S3 hardware with some tuning). Of course, it wouldn't drive new hardware sales. It's more profitable to provide existing customers with new features partnered in additional revenue sharing agreements.


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## RealityCheck (Feb 15, 2007)

SNJpage1 said:


> You bought your S3 or HD based on what it could do at the time. There was nothing said about in the future doing other things. Its the same as buying a TV. You buy one with two Hdmi inputs which is what you needed at the time. You dont think that the company that made the TV is going to upgrade it to three inputs because you now have a need for three?


I don't pay Sony a monthly fee to use my TV either. If they received a subscription fee; I'd expect more than an "as-is" purchase especially relating to software.


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

KungFuCow said:


> Moxi doesnt actually store the show youre streaming. It also seems to transfer REALLY slow, like almost at the speed youre watching it at.


That's disappointing to hear.



> You also can not FFWD/RWD through a show youre streaming but you can quick skip/back the show.


So you're saying you can't move up to a future point in the stream like with streambaby on TiVo?

What if you pause the stream? Does it just stop or is additional material buffered. And if so, do you know how big the buffer is?


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

RealityCheck said:


> So, based on that language, TiVo can decide at their discretion, to cease providing all functionality to the DVR. If you're a contracted or lifetime subscriber, you have no recourse. At this point, I wouldn't put it past TiVo to invoke that clause.


Sure they can, if they were to go out of business would you expect them to continue to provide service?

And why do you thing they would invokle that clause? If you are not aware, they still continue to provide service all the way back to S1 Tivos (10 Years Old?). Just remember providing service does not require them to provide any additional software updates. If you don't believe that is fair, cancel the service. That is your right.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RealityCheck said:


> TiVo could achieve the same ends with HTML5, JavaScript, and WebKit. It's also a lot less CPU intensive than flash (and should be adequately handled by S3 hardware with some tuning). Of course, it wouldn't drive new hardware sales. It's more profitable to provide existing customers with new features partnered in additional revenue sharing agreements.


How do think the ratio of answers went between HTML 5 and Flash when TiVo asked possible business partners "Well what do you work in now that would make it easier for you to partner up?"

HTML5 is all well and good as a technology but they have not even decided on what video support yet to standardize on. Reality check is that people do Flash right now.

When it goes HTML5 _then_ TiVo can switch over but TiVo is not exactly at the market share to be a leading edge standards bearer.


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## Krandor (Jun 10, 2004)

SNJpage1 said:


> You bought your S3 or HD based on what it could do at the time. There was nothing said about in the future doing other things. Its the same as buying a TV. You buy one with two Hdmi inputs which is what you needed at the time. You dont think that the company that made the TV is going to upgrade it to three inputs because you now have a need for three?


Exactly. One reason I waited on an HD and did not get one when they first came out is I really wanted MRV and was not going to buy and "hope" it got added. Once the feature set at the time met my needs I bought and more stuff has been added since then like Netflix which I am glad of but I bought only when current feature set met my needs.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

larrs said:


> This was the main thing I was hoping for. Since M cards support more tuners, I was sure they would at least meet Moxi's 3.


bear in mind that Moxi's 3 are digital - you get one analog with a dongle attached tuner supplied seperately and there is no OTA at all.

so sure for folks doing purely digital it works - I do TWC analog though so I can do MRV but still upgrading over time to TiVo HD and now premiere so I am ready when MRV of digital is worked out and also I use digital OTA anyhow and like telling TWC to get stuffed on their more expensive tiers. 

so if I got a Moxi - I would actually have far less tuners due to the lack of flexibility on the part of MOXI or else Iwould have to pay for more expensive tiers likely to get cable cards installed.


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## Krandor (Jun 10, 2004)

houman said:


> but I guess I am a little bit disapointed on two fronts:
> 
> - Lack of any sort of future updates for the HD/Series 3 model, though I understand they want to sell the newer models to make $, and that the HD/Series 3 are probably not advanced enough to run the UI.
> 
> - Lack of upgrade $ deals to lifetime for the few of us who have been on the boat with them for sometimes. I was a bit expecting maybe some deals to upgrade my current Tivo HD to lifetime or to Premiere/Lifetime.


1) When did they say no updated on HD/S3? Did I miss that? Some features will be for the new boxes but it is too early to say they are done with all S3 updates.

2) I expect we will see some deals. They probably want to see what initial orders are vs. production runs and then based on that decide on lifetime transfer deals. Just because it was not announced on day 1 doesn't mean it won't happen. I expect it will come.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

RealityCheck said:


> So, based on that language, TiVo can decide at their discretion, to cease providing all functionality to the DVR. If you're a contracted or lifetime subscriber, you have no recourse.


Absolutely correct, if that's what the shareholders deem the best course of action should be.



RealityCheck said:


> At this point, I wouldn't put it past TiVo to invoke that clause.


I would have to imagine that said shareholders would disagree with you on that.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

KungFuCow said:


> Moxi doesnt actually store the show youre streaming. It also seems to transfer REALLY slow, like almost at the speed youre watching it at. .


Not sure what you mean by transfering REALLY slow...

On the Moxi Mate (this does not apply to the Main Moxi):

It takes about 2-4 seconds to start a stream from a recording

about 3-8 seconds for Moxi Mate to tune to a station and then play the live stream.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

solutionsetc said:


> That's disappointing to hear.
> 
> So you're saying you can't move up to a future point in the stream like with streambaby on TiVo?
> 
> What if you pause the stream? Does it just stop or is additional material buffered. And if so, do you know how big the buffer is?


If you pause it, it keeps on transferring however you cant skip forward. You MIGHT be able to do a jump like Tivo's FFWD/Skip combo but I havent figured out how to do that.

I dont know how big the buffer is but Ive never hit it.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

SNJpage1 said:


> You bought your S3 or HD based on what it could do at the time. There was nothing said about in the future doing other things. Its the same as buying a TV. You buy one with two Hdmi inputs which is what you needed at the time. You dont think that the company that made the TV is going to upgrade it to three inputs because you now have a need for three?


Funny.. I bought my TivoHD because it was supposed to accept analog inputs too. I guess actually delivering on something that lowly isnt important to Tivo since its been broken for over a year.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

fatlard said:


> Not sure what you mean by transfering REALLY slow...
> 
> On the Moxi Mate (this does not apply to the Main Moxi):
> 
> ...


Im talking about like streaming a Xvid video from your PC, not streaming to a Mate.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

KungFuCow said:


> Im talking about like streaming a Xvid video from your PC, not streaming to a Mate.


My apologies. Video format/encoding/decoding/streaming from PC is somewhat always a challenge..


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## memzinla (Dec 28, 2009)

So when are we going to get the update to see how much space we have left?


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## RealityCheck (Feb 15, 2007)

ZeoTiVo said:


> How do think the ratio of answers went between HTML 5 and Flash when TiVo asked possible business partners "Well what do you work in now that would make it easier for you to partner up?"
> 
> HTML5 is all well and good as a technology but they have not even decided on what video support yet to standardize on. Reality check is that people do Flash right now.
> 
> When it goes HTML5 _then_ TiVo can switch over but TiVo is not exactly at the market share to be a leading edge standards bearer.


Ummm... nobody uses .FLV video codec anymore. h.264 is the codec of choice in a Flash Wrapper. People do Flash right now for certain, but HTML5 is clearly the future as Apple is leading the push with the iPhone/iPad and a slew of partners following. Microsoft today announced HTML5 is the focus of IE9. Youtube, Virgin Atlantic, and others are either looking to drop or have already dropped Flash for HTML5. I doubt TiVo even queried partners with Flash vs. HTML5.

HTML5 doesn't need a "codec of choice", as it's an open framework capable of working with all widely used formats.


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## RealityCheck (Feb 15, 2007)

orangeboy said:


> Absolutely correct, if that's what the shareholders deem the best course of action should be.
> 
> I would have to imagine that said shareholders would disagree with you on that.


The shareholders do not run the day-to-day ops of TiVo. While they can call for a new slate of directors, the officers run the company. Shareholders get their due with stock performance. So, the stockholders have no say in the matter.


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## mamosley (Apr 9, 2003)

fatlard said:


> Wow, 6 whole hours. That is a whole lot of effort you put in to learn about it... :down:


In my opinion it was not worth the aggravation.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RealityCheck said:


> Ummm... nobody uses .FLV video codec anymore. h.264 is the codec of choice in a Flash Wrapper. People do Flash right now for certain, but HTML5 is clearly the future as Apple is leading the push with the iPhone/iPad and a slew of partners following. Microsoft today announced HTML5 is the focus of IE9. Youtube, Virgin Atlantic, and others are either looking to drop or have already dropped Flash for HTML5. I doubt TiVo even queried partners with Flash vs. HTML5.
> 
> HTML5 doesn't need a "codec of choice", as it's an open framework capable of working with all widely used formats.


at what point did I say anything about .FLV or that HTML 5 was not the future?
I said Flash is the current world and the TiVo is coming out in April not 2 years from now.
Anyhow Moxi has none of these problems


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## majortom (Apr 17, 2002)

RealityCheck said:


> TiVo could achieve the same ends with HTML5, JavaScript, and WebKit.


Absolutely true today (although some of the WHAT-WG spec has not yet been finalized). Unfortunately, based on the speed of development, I would guess that TiVo had to make this choice 18 months to 2 years ago, at which point it was not true.



> It's also a lot less CPU intensive than flash (and should be adequately handled by S3 hardware with some tuning).


You are correct that is it less CPU intensive, but I am not sure that S3 hardware can handle it. Maybe, maybe not.



> Of course, it wouldn't drive new hardware sales. It's more profitable to provide existing customers with new features partnered in additional revenue sharing agreements.


Given that TiVo makes no money on hardware sales, your argument is clearly wrong. If TiVo could have made this functionality available to current customers especially if, as some have suggested, it offers them new ad or revenue opportunities, that clearly would have been in their interest (larger installed base is better). That they did not do makes it pretty clear that felt it was not possible.


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## WizarDru (Jan 18, 2005)

majortom said:


> Given that TiVo makes no money on hardware sales, your argument is clearly wrong.


They don't? Could you give a reference here? Because after some googling, I found this article suggesting that their revenues this quarter are up DUE TO HARDWARE SALES, which is the opposite of what you're saying. I did find this article from 7 years ago saying that they were selling at cost THEN. I find it hard to believe that they're still doing it now.

It's also funny reading an article predicting the death of TiVo. From 2001. And 2003. And 2008. 

Also funny: I remembered ReplayTV...but I didn't remember Microsoft having their own solution, UltimateTV. Of course, that's because DirectTV dumped them for Echostar and it died in 2003.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

WizarDru said:


> They don't? Could you give a reference here? Because after some googling, I found this article suggesting that their revenues this quarter are up DUE TO HARDWARE SALES, which is the opposite of what you're saying.


Revenue does not equal profit.

See page 42 of TiVo's annual report. The cost of the hardware exceeds hardware revenues by the equivalent of $100 per box.


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

bkdtv said:


> Revenue does not equal profit.
> 
> See page 42 of TiVo's annual report. The cost of the hardware exceeds hardware revenues by the equivalent of $100 per box.


To be clear cost of hardware revenues ≠ cost of hardware. Many other things are thrown in here including fulfillment, freight, licensing, warranty liabilities, and other overhead, including general and administrative costs, and even adjustments to sales forecasts. This is one of the funds they like to ding, and it makes perfect sense from an accounting point of view.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

solutionsetc said:


> To be clear cost of hardware revenues ≠ cost of hardware. Many other things are thrown in here including fulfillment, freight, licensing, warranty liabilities, and other overhead, including general and administrative costs, and even adjustments to sales forecasts. This is one of the funds they like to ding, and it makes perfect sense from an accounting point of view.


Obviously, the cost to build the hardware is not the same as the cost to sell it. The same is true with any CE product.

Best Buy reportedly paid around $210 for the TiVo HD at launch, which they turned around and resold for $299.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

WizarDru said:


> Also funny: I remembered ReplayTV...but I didn't remember Microsoft having their own solution, UltimateTV. Of course, that's because DirectTV dumped them for Echostar and it died in 2003.


You have a memory lapse. Microsoft discontinued Ultimate TV because it was not profitable. Unlike TiVo, Microsoft had other profitable products to sell.
Echostar dumped Microsoft Dishplayer because Microsoft would not fix bugs in timely maner (official reason - most likely real reason was that Microsoft developed much better DVR for DirecTV and never improved original Dishplayer to the same level) and Echostar decided to develop their own DVR (little did they know that TiVo will take them to court)


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