# Premiere vs TiVo HD



## jmaditto (Jul 29, 2007)

A little late to the party but what do I get for $300 to move from my lifetime TiVo HD to a Premiere? TIA


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## djwilso (Dec 23, 2006)

You get:
A faster UI that is in HD.
The long-asked-for capacity meter!
Probably more ads!

You don't get:
Additional tuners.
Wireless networking.
And a long list of other things that people wanted.

I wonder if the Netflix app will still be as crashy on the new box?


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

you get to pay another 200 bucks for lifetime service


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

djwilso said:


> You get:
> A faster UI that is in HD.
> The long-asked-for capacity meter!
> Probably more ads!
> ...


FYP. There's USB to support wireless networking.


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

orangeboy said:


> FYP. There's USB to support wireless networking.


On both the HD and the new Premier.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

djwilso said:


> You get:
> A faster UI that is in HD.
> The long-asked-for capacity meter!
> Probably more ads!
> ...


You get a UI that is in HD.

"Faster" is in dispute, based on actual video demonstrations.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

The stock drive is twice as large (TiVo HD 160 GB, TiVo Premiere 320 GB)

You apparently get the option to have different now playing lists for different people

Something like the Beta TiVo Search is the default search, so it will search local and (selected) internet sources for episode and/or movies

You get picture in menu (which can also be disabled)

The newer CPU _should_ give better network transfer speeds. (Although if you're doing MRV to a pre-premiere unit that other unit will still be the bottleneck)

Note: I heard people claim that the new HD UI will not be ready on launch day so they will ship initially with the familar SD TiVo interface and you'll get an upgrade later. No idea if that's correct. (It has been confirmed that you will have an option of picking which intereface you want to use)


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## jmaditto (Jul 29, 2007)

Thx. No upgrade for me. I will add another HD until next year though so I'm good. I'm thinking the UI changes will filter to the TiVo HD models as some point, right? If it didn't need the TA now that might be something for me to consider. Thanks for the info.


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

orangeboy said:


> FYP. There's USB to support wireless networking.


There already is USB support for wireless 802.11 b/g:

"For use with a TiVo Series2, Series3, HD, HD XL, Premiere and Premiere XL. Not for use with a TiVo Series1 box (with no USB ports) or DIRECTV DVR with TiVo. Not intended to be plugged into a PC or Mac."


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

Yeah, the need for a TA is still the upgrade killer for me too. Plus I just loaded my S3 up with 2TB of storage.


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## rmcurtis (May 26, 2004)

jmaditto said:


> Thx. No upgrade for me. I will add another HD until next year though so I'm good. I'm thinking the UI changes will filter to the TiVo HD models as some point, right? If it didn't need the TA now that might be something for me to consider. Thanks for the info.


No, the new UI will NOT filter to the TiVo HD model. The old hardware doesn't support the new UI.


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## cburbs (Jan 29, 2009)

Here is a good overview of it - 
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1232191


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## suzook (Oct 22, 2006)

Jonathan_S said:


> I heard people claim that the new HD UI will not be ready on launch day so they will ship initially with the familar SD TiVo interface and you'll get an upgrade later. No idea if that's correct. (It has been confirmed that you will have an option of picking which intereface you want to use)


some are HD, some are not. the ones that arnt finished, will be in an update


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

cburbs said:


> Here is a good overview of it -
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1232191


TCF version: TiVo Premiere Prerelease FAQ: Overview, What's New


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## cburbs (Jan 29, 2009)

bkdtv said:


> TCF version: TiVo Premiere Prerelease FAQ: Overview, What's New


How did I miss that?


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

vurbano said:


> you get to pay another 200 bucks for lifetime service


But you get to keep your lifetime service on the old box.


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## jmaditto (Jul 29, 2007)

Makes no sense to me....I mean the TiVo is not much more than a PC so just push the new UI to the TiVo HD. I think they just are holding out so people will go Premiere. No worries as I'm fine with what I have...just wish they would/could integrate the TA.


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## whitepelican (Feb 15, 2005)

jmaditto said:


> Makes no sense to me....I mean the TiVo is not much more than a PC so just push the new UI to the TiVo HD.


It's not much more than a PC, because in reality it's much, much less than a PC. In terms of processing power and memory, a Tivo is much slower than the slowest PC you could find today, so they can't just throw any new application at it and assume it will run fine.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

I had a hard enough time getting the cable company to give me cable cards so I will keep my Series 2 and my Tivo HD and only get one of these if the HD needs replacement.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

sorry, but what's a "TA"?


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## ciucca (Jun 29, 2004)

Let's hope this box doesn't have the pixelation issue caused by not programming the tuner chip correctly, that showed up on FIOS. People who have been on this board for many years may remember that there was a software upgrade on the old DTV boxes (6.2 I believe) that caused pixelation. After a lot of pain and complaining it was finally fixed. Unbelievably the error was propagated to the TivoHD platform, and it took years for them to acknowledge it, and years for them to fix it. 


I took a chance and pre-ordered the Premiere. If I hook this up to my FIOS and it pixelates, that will be the last straw for me. 

Does anyone know if Tivo has tested this box with FIOS, and can guarantee that the pixelation issue will not show up?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Mike-Mike said:


> sorry, but what's a "TA"?


Terminal Adapter - the interface between a device like TiVo and the cable company's switched digital video (SDV) servers that enable the TiVo to access to video channels delivered by SDV.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Jonathan_S said:


> You apparently get the option to have different now playing lists for different people


Do you happen to know if this means that different people can 'delete' a show, and it will only actually go into Recently Deleted after the last person deletes it?

That would solve the problem for some of "how do I know when everyone has watched it"?
(Though the solution I propose still doesn't solve it for those of us who want to micromanage space and want/need to know if we need to delete something to make room for new shows.)


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

The new units also have support for the new *BLUETOOTH *remote that will be available soon.

This also leaves the door wide open for 3rd party Bluetooth remotes as well. Including maybe an iPhone Bluetooth remote app or a Laptop based Bluetooth remote app.

TGC


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

mattack said:


> Do you happen to know if this means that different people can 'delete' a show, and it will only actually go into Recently Deleted after the last person deletes it?


No idea. All I know is that one screen shot TiVo provided.

But that would be a cool way to implement it.


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## jmaditto (Jul 29, 2007)

whitepelican said:


> It's not much more than a PC, because in reality it's much, much less than a PC. In terms of processing power and memory, a Tivo is much slower than the slowest PC you could find today, so they can't just throw any new application at it and assume it will run fine.


Still see no problem with this....they are electing not to IMHO. They could make it happen. Of course they wouldn't assume it would work, they would test it. Just like they always do. Again, they don't have an incentive as if they put that UI on our TiVo HDs, no one would upgrade at all.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

jmaditto said:


> Still see no problem with this....they are electing not to IMHO. They could make it happen. Of course they wouldn't assume it would work, they would test it. Just like they always do. Again, they don't have an incentive as if they put that UI on our TiVo HDs, no one would upgrade at all.


Who is to say that TiVo did not spend months trying to make the new UI work on existing hardware? That would be an *ass*umption.

As a reminder, TiVo does not make money on the sale of the hardware. They've always taken a loss on the hardware. TiVo reiterated at the launch event that they were *not* making money on the sale of the Premiere hardware. TiVo did say the Premiere cost them less to build than the TivoHD; they said the money saved would be put to use in marketing the product.

With no money made on the sale, it is in TiVo's best interest for existing customers to continue with their existing hardware. That said, TiVo doesn't want to simply service their existing base of users; they want to grow their their base. To do that, TiVo needed a modern platform capable of supporting the improvements they wanted to make, as necessary to lure new customers and/or remain competitive in the future.


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## ckelly33 (Oct 30, 2004)

bkdtv said:


> Who is to say that TiVo did not spend months trying to make the new UI work on existing hardware? That would be an *ass*umption.
> 
> As a reminder, TiVo does not make money on the sale of the hardware. They've always taken a loss on the hardware. TiVo reiterated at the launch event that they were *not* making money on the sale of the Premiere hardware. TiVo did say the Premiere cost them less to build than the TivoHD; they said the money saved would be put to use in marketing the product.
> 
> With no money made on the sale, it is in TiVo's best interest for existing customers to continue with their existing hardware. That said, TiVo doesn't want to simply service their existing base of users; they want to grow their their base. To do that, TiVo needed a modern platform capable of supporting the improvements they wanted to make, as necessary to lure new customers and/or remain competitive in the future.


Except for the fact they can sell more 'lifetime subscriptions' and, more importantly, charge for the transfer of the lifetime from existing HD TiVo's


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

ckelly33 said:


> Except for the fact they can sell more 'lifetime subscriptions' and, more importantly, charge for the transfer of the lifetime from existing HD TiVo's


There is no "transfer" of PLS from existing DVRs. You get a discounted rate if you already have PLS. The PLS is retained on the existing box.


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## ckelly33 (Oct 30, 2004)

orangeboy said:


> There is no "transfer" of PLS from existing DVRs. You get a discounted rate if you already have PLS. The PLS is retained on the existing box.


Splitting hairs here, I think.

While you are correct that my use of the word "transfer" wasn't exact, my point was to address the statement that TiVo has no incentive/is not making money off of people when they move to the new hardware. Moving from a S3/TiVoHD with lifetime to a new box is not technically a 'transfer' but it still adds money to their pocket and is likely enough incentive NOT to push the new GUI to the older hardware.

Old hardware with the new GUI would provide no incentive to the user to pick up the new hardware - there isn't that much difference here.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

ckelly33 said:


> Splitting hairs here, I think.
> 
> While you are correct that my use of the word "transfer" wasn't exact, my point was to address the statement that TiVo has no incentive/is not making money off of people when they move to the new hardware. Moving from a S3/TiVoHD with lifetime to a new box is not technically a 'transfer' but it still adds money to their pocket and is likely enough incentive NOT to push the new GUI to the older hardware.
> 
> Old hardware with the new GUI would provide no incentive to the user to pick up the new hardware - there isn't that much difference here.


It's not about the new hardware. It's about having users facing the new interface, which undoubtedly is where there are new revenue opportunities to TiVo. I'm sure TiVo would like the extra viewers from day 1 if they could have put the new interface on the existing hardware, but their decision to go with Flash made that impossible... at least in the sense of using the same implementation for both old and new hardware.


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## bfwk122 (Jul 2, 2006)

I currently own the Tivo HDXL and I am pretty happy with after getting the tuning adapter ironed out, and the M Card never was a problem for me. Is there any major differences from this unit and the Premier one...Thanks..


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## jmaditto (Jul 29, 2007)

If flash was an issue they could have build one with no flash....people doing that now for the iPad. Whatever. Who cares about hardware or they make money on that or not. It is in their best interested to attract new customers or for existing customers to "ADD" and new box to their acct. Thus, no new HD UI for us series 3 owners. I just don't buy the new UI couldn't have been offered on series 3 is all.....techincally that is. I understand the economic side. Next year when we add another HD TV I will then have a Premiere.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

I don't need a flash interface or even an HD interface. I just want a 16x9 interface (where circles are not oval-shaped.) Is that so hard?


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

The S3/THD doesn't have the horsepower to run the new UI.


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## RayChuang88 (Sep 5, 2002)

Except for maybe a new HD-compliant UI (and *WAY* too much screen clutter), that's why I thought "forget about getting the TiVo Premiere" and just ordered through Amazon.com a TiVo HD XL box with the Wi-Fi adapter. (In short, I'm joining the TiVo users club.  )


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

RayChuang88 said:


> Except for maybe a new HD-compliant UI (and *WAY* too much screen clutter), that's why I thought "forget about getting the TiVo Premiere" and just ordered through Amazon.com a TiVo HD XL box with the Wi-Fi adapter. (In short, I'm joining the TiVo users club.  )


I think you'll be happy with your decision. I also haven't seen any compelling reason to get a Premiere.


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## ZildjianKX (Jun 11, 2004)

Arcady said:


> I don't need a flash interface or even an HD interface. I just want a 16x9 interface (where circles are not oval-shaped.) Is that so hard?


Agreed 10000000%. After all these years, they can't at least give us that?


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## jeffw_00 (Sep 19, 2000)

SInce TiVo doesn't make money on hardware, they're missing a trick - SELL a major UI upgrade to S3 users for, say $49. It's pure profit to them, and avoids pissing off thousands of users. I'd pay....
/j


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## ckelly33 (Oct 30, 2004)

Not trying to get flamed here (I upgraded to three of these Premieres), but after seeing the performance on video, I'm having second thoughts. What's up with the sluggish performance? Engadget ran an article on its robust processor too. I upgraded based on that article and the slow performance of my Series 3's. Is what I saw what we are really to expect?!


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## vccat (Oct 21, 2009)

ckelly33 said:


> What's up with the sluggish performance


Two things that I can think of...

Still Beta and Flash! :down:

I'm happy with my two HDs.


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## deandashl (Aug 8, 2008)

ciucca said:


> Let's hope this box doesn't have the pixelation issue caused by not programming the tuner chip correctly, that showed up on FIOS. People who have been on this board for many years may remember that there was a software upgrade on the old DTV boxes (6.2 I believe) that caused pixelation. After a lot of pain and complaining it was finally fixed. Unbelievably the error was propagated to the TivoHD platform, and it took years for them to acknowledge it, and years for them to fix it.
> 
> I took a chance and pre-ordered the Premiere. If I hook this up to my FIOS and it pixelates, that will be the last straw for me.
> 
> Does anyone know if Tivo has tested this box with FIOS, and can guarantee that the pixelation issue will not show up?


TiVo HD has only been out for 2 2/3 years. It took "years" to fix. Years?

Most pixelization is related to the signal NOT the DVR's


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## Capmeister (Jan 20, 2005)

dswallow said:


> It's not about the new hardware. It's about having users facing the new interface, which undoubtedly is where there are new revenue opportunities to TiVo. I'm sure TiVo would like the extra viewers from day 1 if they could have put the new interface on the existing hardware, but their decision to go with Flash made that impossible... at least in the sense of using the same implementation for both old and new hardware.


If it really meant more money for them, why wouldn't they simply make a low-res version of that layout that's quick enough/not flash for their S3/HD units?

But, personally? While an HD GUI is NICE, it's hardly a deal killer. I just want my shows recorded, ya know?


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

Capmeister said:


> But, personally? While an HD GUI is NICE, it's hardly a deal killer. I just want my shows recorded, ya know?


Exactly. Despite the ads, despite the dated GUI, the sine-qua-non is recording shows. TiVo does a great job executing its core function.


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## bugman-74 (Mar 14, 2010)

The only benefit I see of replacing my HD with the premiere is the 1080p capability (vs 1080i on the HD). Of course, my HD cable is either in 1080i or 720p anyway, so I guess it really doesnt make much of a difference.


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## Bai Shen (Dec 17, 2004)

Is there a reason to get an HD instead of a Premiere if you don't have either? Looking at upgrading from my S2 boxes.


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## sellsje (Oct 16, 2010)

They seriously cant add a capacity meter to the HD? They must have bad programmers!


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## yuki-nagato (Nov 2, 2010)

sellsje said:


> They seriously cant add a capacity meter to the HD? They must have bad programmers!


what money is there in it for them to do that when a new premiere does that already...

seriously that is probably why...


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## deandashl (Aug 8, 2008)

People do pay subscriptions. 

TiVo doesn't change/update anything after the initial product release. Just ask those poor Premiere people who got a couple new screens and are still stuck with our old 480i fuzzy screens from the s2 days.

Sad. 

Maybe TiVo would sell more units, if they.......did something.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

That's absolutely ridiculous. Sure, there aren't as _many_ things updated as many of us (including me) would like, but my S1s, and my S3 & TivoHD all do things they didn't do at the time I purchased them.


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