# No Live Guide in Hydra/gen4 UI



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Just so everyone is fully read in on this update: The Live Guide has not been ported over the Hydra / Gen4 UI yet. This is a problem for my upgrade plans - the WAF if busted without the live guide.

Hydra currently only has the Grid Guide.

Live Guide









Grid Guide


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## idksmy (Jul 16, 2016)

What is WAF?


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

idksmy said:


> What is WAF?


Wife Approval Factor


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## chrishicks (Dec 31, 2003)

"Wife Acceptance/Approval Factor"


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

I am so accustomed to the Live Guide this may be a dealbreaker for me.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

I've never really used the Live Guide. It's a UI that's more or less peculiar to TiVo. I would imagine it's mostly used by longtime TiVo owners as most of us got accustomed to the standard grid guide on various non-TiVo boxes years ago. Given that TiVo is now mainly concerned with licensing their UI/data for use on cable boxes, this move doesn't surprise me. Still stinks for fans of the Live Guide, though.


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## stini777 (Mar 16, 2016)

I'm a fan of the Live Guide and would hate to see it go...I know that in one of the earlier Hydra videos it felt like they begrudgingly included the Grid Guide at all. This might not bode well for Live Guide fans. Call me old-school but I still prefer to surf my options as opposed to have AI take an educated guess at what I want to watch.


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## longrider (Oct 26, 2017)

NashGuy said:


> I've never really used the Live Guide. It's a UI that's more or less peculiar to TiVo. I would imagine it's mostly used by longtime TiVo owners as most of us got accustomed to the standard grid guide on various non-TiVo boxes years ago. Given that TiVo is now mainly concerned with licensing their UI/data for use on cable boxes, this move doesn't surprise me. Still stinks for fans of the Live Guide, though.


I think you are onto something here. I am a fairly recent convert to TiVo having been a DirecTV user for 20 years and never really adjusted to the live guide. I was actually glad to see the grid however I agree they should offer the choice


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

Deal killer.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Thanks for posting, @bradleys.

edit: p.s. @TiVo_Ted has said he'll look into whether there are any plans regarding the Live Guide making its way back into the gen4/Hydra UI:


TiVo_Ted said:


> We have not yet implemented Live Guide in the gen4 experience. I'm looking into what our plans are there and will come back with an answer.


... but since the status of the Live Guide in Hydra is officially confirmed, feel free to direct feedback via the TiVo Feature Requests form, or your feedback channel of choice.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

with the rovi merger I was surprised they didn't try to get iguide to run on tivo


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## johnner1999 (Oct 26, 2002)

Off topic sorry. 

So when are existing bolts and minis getting hydra. Or is it only if you sign up for beta? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

I use the Live Guide to choose recordings from a particular channel, other than that I use the grid guide.

What they should do is in the grid guide, when you select the channel, it goes to the live guide. The Uverse/Prism STB's do that.


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## DVR_Dave (Apr 19, 2017)

johnner1999 said:


> So when are existing bolts and minis getting hydra. Or is it only if you sign up for beta?


Upgrades are discussed here: Tivo Vox boxes launch/available October 29th


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

bradleys said:


> Just so everyone is fully read in on this update: The Live Guide has not been ported over the Hydra / Gen4 UI yet. This is a problem for my upgrade plans - the WAF if busted without the live guide.
> 
> Hydra currently only has the Grid Guide.
> 
> ...


 WTH!?!?!


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I am sure TiVo has metrics showing who uses the live Guide vs the Grid, but I cannot overstate how annoyed my wife would be if I transitioned over before it is ported.

I may start a poll to see how many people use it.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

I always have used the live guide.
Since no way I am upgrading this weekend, or anytime soon till I see some reviews (I blame Windows 8.... ) I guess I can switch over to grid guide and get used to that 1st .


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I don't believe I've intentionally gone into the guide in years.


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## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

I too am a Live Guide user/fan. There's something about using Page Up/Down to review a particular channel's program schedule that has great appeal to me; especially now with all the Rovi program guide screwups.

Another dealbreaker for me would be dropping the S-P-S-30-S discrete 30-second skip feature. Not so much for the always-on clock, but I would miss that too.


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## DeltaOne (Sep 29, 2013)

bradleys said:


> Just so everyone is fully read in on this update: The Live Guide has not been ported over the Hydra / Gen4 UI yet.


"yet" being the operative word here. But Tivo Ted's message implies the live guide will be coming later.

I'm going to upgrade, the guide style isn't that important to me.


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

krkaufman said:


> ​... but since the status of the Live Guide in Hydra is officially confirmed, feel free to direct feedback via the TiVo Feature Requests form, or your feedback channel of choice.


Where has it been said it was confirmed? The Live Guide is just one of the many reasons that I went to Tivo in 2012 (but mainly for the fact that Comcast would not allow external storage before 2013 or 2014 in many areas). Was sick of that stupid grid guide on cable boxes and DVR's for decades, since cable was invented...

As for the "feature" (they think bugs are feature requests) request form, there Used to be people looking at those (I know personally), but who knows these days...


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

samccfl99 said:


> Where has it been said it was confirmed? The Live Guide is just one of the many reasons that I went to Tivo in 2012 (but mainly for the fact that Comcast would not allow external storage before 2013 or 2014 in many areas). Was sick of that stupid grid guide on cable boxes and DVR's for decades, since cable was invented...
> 
> As for the "feature" (they think bugs are feature requests) request form, there Used to be people looking at those (I know personally), but who knows these days...


Ted from TiVo posted it today or late yesterday in one of the Hydra threads.


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## stini777 (Mar 16, 2016)

Just a thought on this...when I use the Live Guide, it's mainly to find the time something airs on a particular network...IE: I know The Walking Dead is on Sunday nights on AMC, but I'm not sure what time the new episode airs. The voice command on the new remote would remedy this by simply saying "Find The Walking Dead" (or something to that effect) and then choosing the new episode from the list that would appear. Perhaps the voice command would go even further...maybe if you say "what's on AMC tonight" it will produce a list?


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

I am a TiVo Live Guide exclusively. Getting rid of it with Hydra is a deal breaker!


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## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

DeltaOne said:


> But Tivo Ted's message implies the live guide will be coming later.


I don't believe that's true. Unless he's posted something since, all he said was: "We have not yet implemented Live Guide in the gen4 experience. I'm looking into what our plans are there and will come back with an answer."


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## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

foghorn2 said:


> I use the Live Guide to choose recordings from a particular channel, other than that I use the grid guide.
> 
> What they should do is in the grid guide, when you select the channel, it goes to the live guide. The Uverse/Prism STB's do that.


I have confirmed that the prior TiVo Live Guide is not in the gen4/Hydra UI. Yes, we do have data on how many people use each type of guide, and that went into the decision to prioritize the Grid Guide first. And, we have been hearing from testing and usability that there are certain scenarios where the Live Guide is super useful.

Our designers are looking into whether we can integrate some of the live guide functionality into the grid guide so that we have a single, advanced guide that can do both. This is one of the reasons why we decided to make the new experience an optional upgrade. If lack of a Live Guide is a deal breaker, you can choose to stay on the current release. We won't have a good handle on when guide enhancements might be available, but I can tell you that this is a major issue and that we are listening.

I also stated in another thread that we see gen4 as a UI that will continue to evolve, and we'll probably be doing quarterly updates until we get through the teething pains. We may even do a small release in the next 4-6 weeks to patch some of the small issues we will no doubt discover as we roll out VOX and gen4 in larger volumes.


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## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

humbb said:


> Another dealbreaker for me would be dropping the S-P-S-30-S discrete 30-second skip feature. Not so much for the always-on clock, but I would miss that too.


As of now, I have not been able to get any of the SPS codes to work. However, the -> advance button now works as 30-second skip by default.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

It’s not that long ago that we had the discussion of live versus grid guide. I concluded that that the grid guide is best for surfers, those just searching around for something that interests them to watch. The live guide is best for someone who is looking for a particular program to see when it is on and to possibly record it.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

TiVo_Ted said:


> As of now, I have not been able to get any of the SPS codes to work. However, the -> advance button now works as 30-second skip by default.


Just to be clear, the SPS codes should be entered while playing back a show rather than in LiveTV, at least that is how they worked more reliably in the previous UI.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

TiVo_Ted said:


> As of now, I have not been able to get any of the SPS codes to work. However, the -> advance button now works as 30-second skip by default.


Well, there's another deal killer. No quick disappearing progress bar, no clock and elapsed time? No Hydra for me.

Thank for the info, Ted, even if it wasn't something I wanted to hear.


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

I don't care for the Live guide for daily use. I do like it on the ipad app when I want to see a whole day or weeks schedule on one channel


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## chrishicks (Dec 31, 2003)

UCLABB said:


> It's not that long ago that we had the discussion of live versus grid guide. I concluded that that the grid guide is best for surfers, those just searching around for something that interests them to watch. The live guide is best for someone who is looking for a particular program to see when it is on and to possibly record it.


I'm the exact opposite of this as a Live Guide user. I will start on HBO for example(the first pay channel in my list of channels) and I will scroll down the channel list looking for random movies I might want to record because I can cover 12 or so hours per channel with a single push of a button. If I see a movie I want to see I just move over to it and hit record. Using the Grid takes so much longer to browse which is why I always hated Cable/Sat provided DVRs in comparison.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

DeltaOne said:


> "yet" being the operative word here. But Tivo Ted's message implies the live guide will be coming later.


I took @TiVo_Ted's "yet" simply as "it isn't included in the product launching on the 29th"; his comment that he would check on plans inferred, to me, that he didn't have any idea if Live Guide was even on the gen4 roadmap.

YMMV, obviously.


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## reneg (Jun 19, 2002)

TiVo_Ted said:


> ... We won't have a good handle on when guide enhancements might be available, but I can tell you that this is a major issue and that we are listening.


Perhaps you'd be willing to share what you and your team consider other major issues with Hydra? I think a lot of folks here would appreciate feedback that other "dealbreakers" will eventually make their way into a future Hydra release.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

TiVo_Ted said:


> I have confirmed that the prior TiVo Live Guide is not in the gen4/Hydra UI. Yes, we do have data on how many people use each type of guide, and that went into the decision to prioritize the Grid Guide first. And, we have been hearing from testing and usability that there are certain scenarios where the Live Guide is super useful.
> 
> Our designers are looking into whether we can integrate some of the live guide functionality into the grid guide so that we have a single, advanced guide that can do both. This is one of the reasons why we decided to make the new experience an optional upgrade. If lack of a Live Guide is a deal breaker, you can choose to stay on the current release. We won't have a good handle on when guide enhancements might be available, but I can tell you that this is a major issue and that we are listening.
> 
> I also stated in another thread that we see gen4 as a UI that will continue to evolve, and we'll probably be doing quarterly updates until we get through the teething pains. We may even do a small release in the next 4-6 weeks to patch some of the small issues we will no doubt discover as we roll out VOX and gen4 in larger volumes.


Thanks for chiming in on this. It is encouraging to learn that you consider this a "major issue" and that you "are listening".

Other than functionality, it is also a matter of visual preference. Life Guide is one of the things that distinguishes TiVo from all other DVRs out there. Just my two cents.


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## Nickipedia (Jul 18, 2015)

chrishicks said:


> I'm the exact opposite of this as a Live Guide user. I will start on HBO for example(the first pay channel in my list of channels) and I will scroll down the channel list looking for random movies I might want to record because I can cover 12 or so hours per channel with a single push of a button. If I see a movie I want to see I just move over to it and hit record. Using the Grid takes so much longer to browse which is why I always hated Cable/Sat provided DVRs in comparison.


I agree, seeing what's coming up quickly and easily is the best part of the Live Guide. The next 8 shows show up (from 4 to 16 hours). The grid guide shows the next 2 hours, only. And if the show's title doesn't fit in the tiny space, it's cut off. It's like using an Excel spreadsheet for listings.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Ted from TiVo posted it today or late yesterday in one of the Hydra threads.


And was quoted in the post to which the poster was replying.

Glad to see @TiVo_Ted has already returned with the promised add'l info.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

chrishicks said:


> I'm the exact opposite of this as a Live Guide user. I will start on HBO for example(the first pay channel in my list of channels) and I will scroll down the channel list looking for random movies I might want to record because I can cover 12 or so hours per channel with a single push of a button. If I see a movie I want to see I just move over to it and hit record. Using the Grid takes so much longer to browse which is why I always hated Cable/Sat provided DVRs in comparison.


You aren't the opposite. You are exactly what UCLABB said. You are looking for specific programming. Surfing is seeing what is on NOW and changing channels to watch it.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

thyname said:


> Thanks for chiming in on this. It is encouraging to learn that you consider this a "major issue" and that you "are listening".
> 
> Other than functionality, it is also a matter of visual preference. Life Guide is one of the things that distinguishes TiVo from all other DVRs out there. Just my two cents.


Unique does not mean better. Grid guides have flourished for a reason.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

What? no Tivo clock either? dammit. What is new and good about taking away choices? I hope this isn't forced. You buy the equipment. You pay for the service. I don't get why you can't continue to have features that have proven to work and be popular. The guide thing pisses me off quite a bit but I'm not sure that not being abl to use the Tivo clock doesn't piss me off even more.

leave the stuff that works alone and fix the stuff that doesn't!! good grief.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Our designers are looking into whether we can integrate some of the live guide functionality into the grid guide so that we have a single, advanced guide that can do both. This is one of the reasons why we decided to make the new experience an optional upgrade. If lack of a Live Guide is a deal breaker, you can choose to stay on the current release. We won't have a good handle on when guide enhancements might be available, but I can tell you that this is a major issue and that we are listening.


DirecTV had a grid that if you clicked on the channel tile, it brought up a live guide for that channel. Your iphone app does that. Then you can click through once in that mode.

Fios has multiple guide options, including one that is somewhat like Live Guide but not quite. You can pick a primary (first push of guide button) and a secondary (second push of guide button) from the list of them, which includes a full grid, a half screen grid, a mini grid or a liveguide-type display. Or you can get to each of them quickly.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

TonyD79 said:


> Unique does not mean better. Grid guides have flourished for a reason.


But Unique means Unique. No?

Better or worse, that is a matter of personal preference.

If YOU don't like it, it does not mean others don't like it either.

Having choices is a good thing. No?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

thyname said:


> But Unique means Unique. No?
> 
> Better or worse, that is a matter of personal preference.
> 
> ...


I agree. I was only speaking to your point.

I don't see it as a selling point. People who use guides are used to grid guides. It is what they are comfortable with. Like cars with four wheels. Three or five or six might be unique or even better but people are reluctant to buy because it is "different."

Hey, be happy there is a guide at all. Some streaming services are going away from them to just tiles.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

TiVo hasn't heard of1 step forward...2 steps back is a bad thing....


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

chrishicks said:


> I'm the exact opposite of this as a Live Guide user. I will start on HBO for example(the first pay channel in my list of channels) and I will scroll down the channel list looking for random movies I might want to record because I can cover 12 or so hours per channel with a single push of a button. If I see a movie I want to see I just move over to it and hit record. Using the Grid takes so much longer to browse which is why I always hated Cable/Sat provided DVRs in comparison.


That's not the exact opposite, just another reason for liking the live guide. I too use it for that purpose. The exact opposite of what I said would be using the live guide to surf to see what you might want to immediately watch.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

TiVo_Ted said:


> I have confirmed that the prior TiVo Live Guide is not in the gen4/Hydra UI. Yes, we do have data on how many people use each type of guide, and that went into the decision to prioritize the Grid Guide first. And, we have been hearing from testing and usability that there are certain scenarios where the Live Guide is super useful.
> 
> *Our designers are looking into whether we can integrate some of the live guide functionality into the grid guide so that we have a single, advanced guide that can do both. This is one of the reasons why we decided to make the new experience an optional upgrade.* If lack of a Live Guide is a deal breaker, you can choose to stay on the current release. We won't have a good handle on when guide enhancements might be available, but I can tell you that this is a major issue and that we are listening.
> 
> I also stated in another thread that we see gen4 as a UI that will continue to evolve, and we'll probably be doing quarterly updates until we get through the teething pains. We may even do a small release in the next 4-6 weeks to patch some of the small issues we will no doubt discover as we roll out VOX and gen4 in larger volumes.


Actually Rovi had a guide that did this back when they were known as Gemstar/TV Guide International. It was TV Guide On Screen version 9. When you hit the guide button on the remote the traditional grid guide would come up and the channel you where watching would be highlighted in yellow. When you hit the info button that would bring up the program information. Hitting the info button again would make the info box bigger and list the programs for that channel for the next 12 to 24 hours. Hitting the info button again would dismiss the info box.
What you can do is when the you are in the expanded info box you can make the programs selectable by using the arrow keys and select button. When you select a program it will show the program info and options to record and set up a 1Pass.
There was an option in the settings menu to enable the expanded info box.
There should be a working model of these older guides that you can look at to see how they worked since Rovi/Gemstar owned and designed them. This would give the users the Live Guide functionality in the grid guide and not to have to support multiple guide versions.


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## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

thyname said:


> Thanks for chiming in on this. It is encouraging to learn that you consider this a "major issue" and that you "are listening".
> 
> Other than functionality, it is also a matter of visual preference. Life Guide is one of the things that distinguishes TiVo from all other DVRs out there. Just my two cents.


Its the Top reason many of us chose Tivo in the First place. The Live guide was what prompted me to purchase my first TiVo and the thought of going backwards yes I said backwards is well to put it bluntly painful. However though it does occur to me that perhaps the Hydra might be a good thing.. (I know Shield doesn't think so and well that might be, I don't know). But perhaps the overall experience will more than make up for the lack of the good old days. Although I don't see why they cant just program the two looks into the interface.. so that we can manually turn on the old look or the new look just by selecting look and feel etc. Should be an easy fix if you ask me. What do I know I am not a programmer just an end user Consumer with very little voice to be heard.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

I don't use either guide that often, but sometimes I'll be in grid guide jumping up and down in 2hr windows, and I get to a channel I'm interested in, and wish I could press one of the colored buttons to enter LiveGuide. I don't like needing to go into options to switch guides. I want to be able to toggle quickly between the two without losing the context of the channel I'm currently highlighting. I don't want to really slide over to the channel name, I just want to switch immediately, even if I'm 10 days into the future on the grid guide, when I switch to Live Guide, I should be 10 days into the future for that channel with the highlight on the show that was previously highlighted in the gride guide. Same with going back into grid guide.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

JACKASTOR said:


> Its the Top reason any of us chose Tivo in the First place. The Live guide was what prompted me to purchase my first TiVo and the thought of going backwards yes I said backwards is well to put it bluntly painful. However though it does occur to me that perhaps the Hydra might be a good thing.. (I know Shield doesn't think so and well that might be, I don't know). But perhaps the overall experience will more than make up for the lack of the good old days. Although I don't see why they cant just program the two looks into the interface.. so that we can manually turn on the old look or the new look just by selecting look and feel etc. Should be an easy fix if you ask me. What do I know I am not a programmer just an end user Consumer with very little voice to be heard.





sharkster said:


> What? no Tivo clock either? dammit. What is new and good about taking away choices? I hope this isn't forced. You buy the equipment. You pay for the service. *I don't get why you can't continue to have features that have proven to work and be popular.* The guide thing pisses me off quite a bit but I'm not sure that not being abl to use the Tivo clock doesn't piss me off even more.
> 
> leave the stuff that works alone and fix the stuff that doesn't!! good grief.


I'm not a tech. engineer. But these things--Live Guide and the SPS backdoor codes--already exist and have been successful and well-liked, even to the extreme. One would wish that these modules "simply" could be imported into the new UI as the optional successes they have been. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it . . . ."


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## Anon1 (Sep 26, 2017)

TiVo_Ted said:


> I have confirmed that the prior TiVo Live Guide is not in the gen4/Hydra UI. Yes, we do have data on how many people use each type of guide, and that went into the decision to prioritize the Grid Guide first. And, we have been hearing from testing and usability that there are certain scenarios where the Live Guide is super useful.
> 
> Our designers are looking into whether we can integrate some of the live guide functionality into the grid guide so that we have a single, advanced guide that can do both. This is one of the reasons why we decided to make the new experience an optional upgrade. If lack of a Live Guide is a deal breaker, you can choose to stay on the current release. We won't have a good handle on when guide enhancements might be available, but I can tell you that this is a major issue and that we are listening.
> 
> I also stated in another thread that we see gen4 as a UI that will continue to evolve, and we'll probably be doing quarterly updates until we get through the teething pains. We may even do a small release in the next 4-6 weeks to patch some of the small issues we will no doubt discover as we roll out VOX and gen4 in larger volumes.


Please always make Hydra optional. If not, at least wait until you've added Live Guide, and an option to disallow voice commands.


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## toricred (Mar 9, 2004)

JACKASTOR said:


> Its the Top reason any of us chose Tivo in the First place. The Live guide was what prompted me to purchase my first TiVo and the thought of going backwards yes I said backwards is well to put it bluntly painful. However though it does occur to me that perhaps the Hydra might be a good thing.. (I know Shield doesn't think so and well that might be, I don't know). But perhaps the overall experience will more than make up for the lack of the good old days. Although I don't see why they cant just program the two looks into the interface.. so that we can manually turn on the old look or the new look just by selecting look and feel etc. Should be an easy fix if you ask me. What do I know I am not a programmer just an end user Consumer with very little voice to be heard.


This is an overly broad statement. I personally hate the Liv Guide so it had nothing to do with my purchase.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Anon1 said:


> Please always make Hydra optional. If not, at least wait until you've added Live Guide, and an option to disallow voice commands.


As to disallowing voice commands, perhaps easy: simply don't press and hold the voice button; or don't use a Vox remote (use an original Roamio or Bolt remote, or the Slide Pro remote, which has its own great benefits).


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## Anon1 (Sep 26, 2017)

Mikeguy said:


> As to disallowing voice commands, perhaps easy: simply don't press and hold the voice button; or don't use a Vox remote (use an original Roamio or Bolt remote, or the Slide Pro remote, which has its own great benefits).


The latter is a fine option for now. When a new remote releases with new non-optional features, like the ABCD buttons, then it won't. It's easier to request the option is added in the OS, now.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

For me. I can’t stand the live guide


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

For those who hate the live guide? 
reason?
edit: Guess the question is also why you like the grid guide over it?
( reason I am asking is I just turned it on to try to get used to it before the upgrade and my god it's a PITA)

reason I like the live guide.

For networks like TCM or AMC or MTV Discovery NG seeing up to 8 hours at one place, make is very easy to record movies or concerts, specials I may have missed.

I can scroll from top to bottom in about in 2 minutes and see what is on.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

Those who don’t like the Live Guide: why are you complaining about it here? It is not like they are going to take your Grid Guide away. Can’t we have them both? Thank you


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

I love the Live Guide and will resist Hydra while it's missing. Buttons for paging though what's playing now *AND* buttons to see the next several shows on a channel. Best of both worlds. And you can move forward in time, then do either of those things. _ *The Live Guide is the "advanced guide". Please don't try to "integrate some of the live guide functionality" into the GG. Give us the full LG option.*_

*BUT*, I want to mention one Grid Guide feature that I hope doesn't get lost in the switch. With the GG, you can left click onto the channel (instead of a show), then select to get the option to remove the channel from your Channel List. This is super helpful when setting up a Tivo because we have a huge # of SD channels, most, but not all, of which have HD versions. The easiest way to delete the SD channels that have HD versions is to pick them off in the GG with alphabetical ordering.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> For those who hate the live guide?
> reason?
> edit: Guess the question is also why you like the grid guide over it?
> ( reason I am asking is I just turned it on to try to get used to it before the upgrade and my god it's a PITA)
> ...


For OTA, I have my "typical" stations and for whatever reason have not set up OnePasses for many shows I tend to watch. And so I typically scan through "my" stations before evening prime time, to see what's on for the evening and perhaps to set some recordings. The expanse of the Live Guide, letter me scan through many hours at a time, as you note, makes this a quick chore.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> For those who hate the live guide?
> reason?
> edit: Guess the question is also why you like the grid guide over it?
> ( reason I am asking is I just turned it on to try to get used to it before the upgrade and my god it's a PITA)
> ...


Probably because I use the guide to see what is on now and in the next hour or so. And I want to see multiple channels at once


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

compnurd said:


> Probably because I use the guide to see what is on now and in the next hour or so. And I want to see multiple channels at once


That's what I said earlier in this thread. The grid guide is good for people who are searching for something to watch right now or within an hour or so. Just surf around the grid guide to find something.

For those of us who watch recordings almost exclusively, the grid guide is not very useful. We use the live guide to search out movies, specials, sporting events, etc. to record for future viewing. So, choice of guide depends on how one uses his TiVo.

I use the guide on my iPad rather than the TiVo box. As far as I can tell only the live guide is on the iPad.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JACKASTOR said:


> Its the Top reason *any* of us chose Tivo in the First place.


I couldn't argue with "many."


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Anon1 said:


> Please always make Hydra optional. If not, at least wait until you've added Live Guide, and an option to disallow voice commands.


If you look at all the apps (on your old UI) you will see Hydra as an upgrade or downgrade, so the upgrade will be optional when it is released, not to worry.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

I definitely won't be opting in to any Hydra "upgrade" until the functionality of the Live Guide is reasonably dealt with.

Grids work well for live, or near live viewers where the Live Guide is better for scanning future content for recording from favorite channels. One way to meet this need would be to present a list of upcoming programming for a channel when you select the channel name in the grid guide.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

TiVo_Ted said:


> As of now, I have not been able to get any of the SPS codes to work. However, the -> advance button now works as 30-second skip by default.


That's a deal breaker right there for me. SPSPS (quick clear play bar) is a critical function to me along with 30 sec skip. Maybe TiVo can consider official menu options to replace some of these SPS codes. I think quick clear, 30 sec skip and clock are the main used ones by far. And other than 30 sec skip, none of the other options survive a reboot and have to be re-entered. Official menu options for these things would remedy that too.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

moyekj said:


> Official menu options for these things would remedy that too.


Menu options for clock and quick clear that survive a reboot would actually be a well-received feature enhancement, with current software too. It isn't a huge deal to re-enter the codes after reboot, but it is a little annoying.


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## Goldwing2001 (Sep 30, 2006)

I have been using the "Live Guide" since 2006. My wife and I don't care for the "Grid" format. Hope to they intend to add it soon!


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

moyekj said:


> That's a deal breaker right there for me. SPSPS (quick clear play bar) is a critical function to me along with 30 sec skip. Maybe TiVo can consider official menu options to replace some of these SPS codes. I thinki quick clear, 30 sec skip and clock are the main used ones by far. And other than 30 sec skip, none of the other options survive a reboot and have to be re-entered. Official menu options for these things would remedy that too.


Well, as 30-second skip has been institutionalized in Hydra, 30-second fast skim should be added an a menu option (or be made available via SPS code).


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

thyname said:


> Those who don't like the Live Guide: why are you complaining about it here? It is not like they are going to take your Grid Guide away. Can't we have them both? Thank you


 You should be able to, Sling TV has both a grid and tiles for the live channel and you can switch them on the fly. They added the grid guide because it was requested by many people.
Now where is this clock on Tivo that people are talking about.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

JACKASTOR said:


> Its the Top reason any of us chose Tivo in the First place.


Uh, no.


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## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

lessd said:


> If you look at all the apps (on your old UI) you will see Hydra as an upgrade or downgrade, so the upgrade will be optional when it is released, not to worry.


You just responded to "I hope it is still an option in the future" with "Don't worry, it will be an option at release". This would be like telling someone who just said "I hope it doesn't rain next Thursday" "Oh, don't worry, the forecast for today says sunny".


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

TiVo_Ted said:


> I also stated in another thread that we see gen4 as a UI that will continue to evolve, and we'll probably be doing quarterly updates until we get through the teething pains. We may even do a small release in the next 4-6 weeks to patch some of the small issues we will no doubt discover as we roll out VOX and gen4 in larger volumes.


I'm glad to see that you have that kind of commitment to improving the product! And on topic, although we don't use the guide often, as a long time TiVo owner (2000) I would really miss the Live Guide.

Scott


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## Bighouse (Sep 3, 2004)

I'm stupid. What the heck is the "Live Guide" as opposed to the "Grid Guide"? Can someone just post a picture of both so I'll know what they are?


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Bighouse said:


> I'm stupid. What the heck is the "Live Guide" as opposed to the "Grid Guide"? Can someone just post a picture of both so I'll know what they are?


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

Live guide first and grid guide second.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

Darn


moyekj said:


>


darn, you beat me to it!


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## Bighouse (Sep 3, 2004)

Ok, thank you guys. This saddens me. I like TiVo to bring me joy when I use it. The grid guide makes me sad and the Live Guide is the one I use.

No Hydra for this household.


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## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

Keep the Live Guide! I use it exclusively.

I've been lusting after the new Bolt, but finding out that there is no Live Guide was like getting hit with a bucket of ice water. Going back to a grid guide would be such a negative experience that I fear it would overwhelm the joy of a new TiVo. Once a new box is set up with channels and 1Ps, most of my interaction with it is in the guide.

I guess I'll have to stick with my trusty Premiere XL4. The only negative there is the slowness of apps on old hardware. I picked up an Apple TV to take care of that (well, once Prime appears on it).

Why, TiVo? Why? The decision to remove the Live Guide is an unexpected and GIGANTIC MISTAKE. The new Hydra interface might or might not be a good thing, but losing the Live Guide is definitely a bad thing -- and very disappointing.

Please reconsider.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Phil_C, the Hydra UI is still OPTIONAL for Bolt & Roamio platforms, so you can still run the current HDUI which has choice of grid guide or live guide. i.e. You can still use grid guide on Bolt platform.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> darn, you beat me to it!


Well, you were both racing for 2nd place, since the first post in the thread provided images of both. 

No Live Guide in Hydra/gen4 UI


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Testing - every time I try to correct the post I get some weird board error.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Phil_C said:


> Keep the Live Guide! I use it exclusively.
> 
> I've been lusting after the new Bolt, but finding out that there is no Live Guide was like getting hit with a bucket of ice water. Going back to a grid guide would be such a negative experience that I fear it would overwhelm the joy of a new TiVo. Once a new box is set up with channels and 1Ps, most of my interaction with it is in the guide.
> 
> ...


I'm a bit confused as to why you'd be so lusty for the new BOLT, given it's the same as the old BOLT plus the potential for voice control (if running Hydra/gen4). You can still pick up a BOLT, VOX or not, and run the gen3 UI, to gain the performance benefits of the BOLT series.


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## Bighouse (Sep 3, 2004)

moyekj said:


> Phil_C, the Hydra UI is still OPTIONAL for Bolt & Roamio platforms, so you can still run the current HDUI which has choice of grid guide or live guide. i.e. You can still use grid guide on Bolt platform.


Is there some way to opt-out of this update? Or, is it purely just opt-in?

I need to SHIELD against Hydra.


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## longrider (Oct 26, 2017)

Bighouse said:


> Is there some way to opt-out of this update? Or, is it purely just opt-in?
> 
> I need to SHIELD against Hydra.


It is purely opt-in. The only time it is required is if you want voice remote functions


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Bighouse said:


> Is there some way to opt-out of this update? Or, is it purely just opt-in?


Replies from @TiVo_Ted confirming Hydra/gen4 is opt-in only...

Tivo Vox boxes launch/available October 29th
Tivo Vox boxes launch/available October 29th

p.s. Though user profiles sure would have made me feel safer, knowing that only a PIN-protected "admin" profile could authorize the upgrade to Hydra/gen4.


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## schatham (Mar 17, 2007)

UCLABB said:


> It's not that long ago that we had the discussion of live versus grid guide. I concluded that that the grid guide is best for surfers, those just searching around for something that interests them to watch. The live guide is best for someone who is looking for a particular program to see when it is on and to possibly record it.


I disagree. If you have movie channels it's nice to see ahead quickly to see if something interesting is on over night or while at work. Their are lots of shows and movies that I scan for vs knowing what I want.

I'm a 100% live guide user.


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## schatham (Mar 17, 2007)

longrider said:


> It is purely opt-in. The only time it is required is if you want voice remote functions


For now. Who knows down the road.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

Jed1 said:


> Actually Rovi had a guide that did this back when they were known as Gemstar/TV Guide International. It was TV Guide On Screen version 9. When you hit the guide button on the remote the traditional grid guide would come up and the channel you where watching would be highlighted in yellow. When you hit the info button that would bring up the program information. Hitting the info button again would make the info box bigger and list the programs for that channel for the next 12 to 24 hours. Hitting the info button again would dismiss the info box.
> What you can do is when the you are in the expanded info box you can make the programs selectable by using the arrow keys and select button. When you select a program it will show the program info and options to record and set up a 1Pass.
> There was an option in the settings menu to enable the expanded info box.
> There should be a working model of these older guides that you can look at to see how they worked since Rovi/Gemstar owned and designed them. This would give the users the Live Guide functionality in the grid guide and not to have to support multiple guide versions.


Rovi actually merged with TVguide Rovi was Pioneer Digital before Rovi bought them the only reason I know this is Cox Communications used the Pioneer digital guide on the digital boxes when they first came out


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## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

schatham said:


> For now. Who knows down the road.


Yup, this is the part (from Tivo_Ted) that has me worried:
"Gen4 is where we will be placing a majority of our effort for new features and functionality going forward."
So while Gen4 will be optional, we really don't know the level of future support Gen3 will receive.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Bighouse said:


> Is there some way to opt-out of this update? Or, is it purely just opt-in?
> 
> I need to SHIELD against Hydra.


I would also check in your settings. Since the 7.4 update if you go to 'Apps' and go to the right and click on 'Add & manage apps' you'll see (scroll down) that they have put this in there and, by default, they have both items checked. I made sure to uncheck both. I don't know how much that helps, but I figure it's better than if I don't.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

tenthplanet said:


> You should be able to, Sling TV has both a grid and tiles for the live channel and you can switch them on the fly. They added the grid guide because it was requested by many people.
> Now where is this clock on Tivo that people are talking about.


Let me try this again - the Tivo clock is a small clock you can have on the upper right of your screen. Additionally, it shows where you are in a recording when you're watching a recording. I like it for a few reasons. One of which is that if it's gone I know the Tivo has restarted.

In live tv just hit -

Select
Select
Play
Select
9
Selet


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Huh. Still cannot edit a post (sorry for typos) without getting that error.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

sharkster said:


> Let me try this again - the Tivo clock is a small clock you can have on the upper right of your screen. Additionally, it shows where you are in a recording when you're watching a recording. I like it for a few reasons. One of which is that if it's gone I know the Tivo has restarted.
> 
> In live tv just hit -
> 
> ...


A nice option for those who want it. Me, it makes me anxious, as I see time and my life ticking away second-by-second.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Mikeguy said:


> A nice option for those who want it. Me, it makes me anxious, as I see time and my life ticking away second-by-second.


Ha! Love it. I get it. I feel like, even though I don't work anymore, I have a somewhat constant, although not neurotically so, need to know what time it is. It also helps me know if the daily connection has screwed up the time again, as I can compare it with my laptop when I'm on it and I'd rather get it fixed asap rather than not knowing until some recordings are messed up. I also like knowing where I am on a recording.

I'd be more anxious without it.


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

For me, I've never seen the need to care much about the guide one way or another. In a recorded, streaming, downloaded, or on-demand world - I really only care about 2 states of existence for a show. Whether it is on now ... or on at some time in the future. Outside of live events, I no longer care what channel it is on or what time it is on in the future. I just need to know that it exists. In the rare cases where I do care - the details of a listing give me that info.

My suspicion regarding the clinging to the old listing ways is more of an indication of clinging to the old model. It was the same thing I thought when I saw the first Hydra video targeted towards the Spain launch. They were compelled to include a grid guide because the primary install base was going to be for MSO customers tied to a legacy program delivery model.

It is one of my biggest reservations over how big of an upgrade Hydra will really be ... and whether a lot of ground will be made up comparing it to other options available. The need to hold service to a majority of users in the existing TV consumption model may limit what can actually be done. On top of that - if consideration is made to include things like a guide model or SPS codes that cause concessions to be made to a true design change, that change can be stunted in actual implementation. I get that most here are going to vote for Live Guide. I get that the majority are going to care about SPS codes. When compared against general population users, Live Guide would certainly be a secondary preference. SPS codes are far, far less. If the inclusion of those items has no impact on future development - fine. No harm. If they hold back future development, it's time to let them go and work on something that will drive new signups and reverse the non-MSO subscription decline. I recall seeing another article a few weeks ago comparing options out there (Techhive, I think), and it referenced the TiVo seeming to be a more dated and aging option. Reviews like that are now the norm, and the hope is that a fresh redesign with functions others may expect (but that old-guard users consider unnecessary) can start to reverse that perception.

Who knows -- maybe that's not the goal? Perhaps TiVo is decided to embrace an older mindset and be the top option for traditional delivery and presentation. If so - that's fine. Go with what brought you there. But if the goal going-forward with Hydra is to change and embrace a newer model of consumption - items that hold that back will have to be looked at (if applicable). 

One thing for sure -- if you want to drive your company to non-acceptance with the general population and towards bankruptcy ... then implement every suggestion your hard-core, vocal forum users want implemented.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

sharkster said:


> Huh. Still cannot edit a post (sorry for typos) without getting that error.


(Reality check: it's not just you--it happens to me as well, in repeating your post--there must be something in your post itself, such as some naughty words . . . .  )


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Mikeguy said:


> (Reality check: it's not just you--it happens to me as well, in repeating your post--there must be something in your post itself, such as some naughty words . . . .  )


Who me? Never! 

But the ones I was trying to edit were when I was trying to answer that one poster about the clock thing and it kept going wrong. It doesn't help when this broken arm is making me a horrible typist. :mad

I was getting some kind of error that was from the board mentioning something about firewall and asking if I wanted to create a report about it. (forgot the words although I've seen it numerous times) Then I was even getting it on a first post.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

sharkster said:


> Who me? Never!
> 
> But the ones I was trying to edit were when I was trying to answer that one poster about the clock thing and it kept going wrong. It doesn't help when this broken arm is making me a horrible typist. :mad
> 
> I was getting some kind of error that was from the board mentioning something about firewall and asking if I wanted to create a report about it. (forgot the words although I've seen it numerous times) Then I was even getting it on a first post.


I got the bizarro screen with your earlier post--I had been trying to respond to it, which the system wouldn't let me do--which you then deleted, and again with your current iteration--this time I could respond, but then I couldn't edit my response.

Perhaps the system _really_ wants to keep "Select - Select - Play - Select - 9 - Selet" secret. 

edit: And adding to the weirdness, when I just now tried to post _this_ comment but spelling the final "Select" in the above backdoor hack correctly, I again got the bizarro firewall error screen--it's only when I misspelled the final "Select" that the board allowed the response to be posted. There's something about the hack that the board doesn't like . . . . (Or ghosts and goblins, as Halloween approaches . . . .  )


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Ha! Weird on top of weird. Maybe if you say 'Select' four times some kind of Beetlejuice thing happens.  

I saw that typo and thought oh geez, really? I tried to correct it and got the error again so I give up. Need to pay more attention.


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## sdpadres (Dec 28, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> I got the bizarro screen with your earlier post--I had been trying to respond to it, which the system wouldn't let me do--which you then deleted, and again with your current iteration--this time I could respond, but then I couldn't edit my response.
> 
> Perhaps the system _really_ wants to keep "Select - Select - Play - Select - 9 - Selet" secret.
> 
> edit: And adding to the weirdness, when I just now tried to post _this_ comment but spelling the final "Select" in the above backdoor hack correctly, I again got the bizarro firewall error screen--it's only when I misspelled the final "Select" that the board allowed the response to be posted. There's something about the hack that the board doesn't like . . . . (Or ghosts and goblins, as Halloween approaches . . . .  )


This doesn't seem to work on minis.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

Won't know till it's in use, but I hope someone posts saying that the KMTTG live guide interface still works after upgrade. I can live with using that to look at guide.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

sharkster said:


> I would also check in your settings. Since the 7.4 update if you go to 'Apps' and go to the right and click on 'Add & manage apps' you'll see (scroll down) that they have put this in there and, by default, they have both items checked. I made sure to uncheck both. I don't know how much that helps, but I figure it's better than if I don't.


those stay hidden per 
the upgrade app can be made to appear by pairing a VOX Remote with your box and pressing the blue voice button to begin the update process. At some later date (not Sunday) we will make this visible to the entire population of Series 5 and Series 6 customers (all MINI, Roamio and BOLT devices). We will determine this date once we get a better idea for how people are feeling about gen4. If you do not have a VOX Remote, the way to get gen4/Hydra on Sunday will be to go to a page on our site, login to your TiVo account, and select a box to receive the update. I will post the URL first thing Sunday morning once we're sure it's working, or I might send it to somebody in the EST so they can test it and post it earlier than me. Dave, are you listening?

credit Tivo Ted


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## idksmy (Jul 16, 2016)

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> Won't know till it's in use, but I hope someone posts saying that the KMTTG live guide interface still works after upgrade. I can live with using that to look at guide.


Tivo_Ted has already posted kmttg works with hydra.


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## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

toricred said:


> This is an overly broad statement. I personally hate the Liv Guide so it had nothing to do with my purchase.


 Replace any with many. Sorry my mistake in spelling


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> Won't know till it's in use, but I hope someone posts saying that the KMTTG live guide interface still works after upgrade. I can live with using that to look at guide.


per davezatz The TiVo Hydra Heads Up looks like no more tivo to pc transfers


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

ajwees41 said:


> per davezatz The TiVo Hydra Heads Up looks like no more tivo to pc transfers


Dave's article says PC to Tivo transfers. @TiVo_Ted confirmed being able to pull from Tivo to PC with both PyTivo Desktop and Tivo Desktop a couple days ago
Tivo Vox boxes launch/available October 29th

edit: Dave confirms this in the comments of his article that Tivo to PC does work.


----------



## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

osu1991 said:


> Dave's article says PC to Tivo transfers. @TiVo_Ted confirmed being able to pull from Tivo to PC with both PyTivo Desktop and Tivo Desktop a couple days ago
> Tivo Vox boxes launch/available O


so I'm guessing plex still works to watch videos with hydra?


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

ajwees41 said:


> so I'm guessing plex still works to watch videos with hydra?


yes


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

ajwees41 said:


> per davezatz The TiVo Hydra Heads Up looks like no more tivo to pc transfers





osu1991 said:


> Dave's article says PC to Tivo transfers. @TiVo_Ted confirmed being able to pull from Tivo to PC with both PyTivo Desktop and Tivo Desktop a couple days ago
> Tivo Vox boxes launch/available October 29th
> 
> edit: Dave confirms this in the comments of his article that Tivo to PC does work.


Just to clarify this important point:


> And one feature in particular power users need to be alerted to: PC-_*to*_-TiVo transfers (think TiVo Desktop, pytivo, etc) are not yet operational. I don't believe this is an intentional EOL event. Rather, there was work prioritized ahead of this more niche functionality and the retrofitting of likely archaic hooks. However, transferring recordings from various TiVo _DVRs_ to Hydra boxes will work&#8230; via TiVo.com versus, STB initiation.


And in answer to the question in the Comments as to whether TiVo-to-PC transfers are operational in Hydra:


> Yes, you can offload recordings under Hydra. The scenario I presented is something of corner case in my opinion, but an associate felt strongly it should be shared.


The TiVo Hydra Heads Up

And so, the lack of PC-to-TiVo transfer ability hopefully is simply a priorities issue now, and will be remedied in the near future.


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## idksmy (Jul 16, 2016)

ajwees41 said:


> per davezatz The TiVo Hydra Heads Up looks like no more tivo to pc transfers


It is disappointing how such basic information, with a date of 10/28, is wrong, when the accurate information is in this forum. And then someone posts a link to it. I guess some people want to be first, even when the information is wrong.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

So those on the beta test can comment at 12:01am Eastern time? GRIN


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

What I found equally disappointing/disturbing in Dave Zatz' blog today, an asserted Hydra tester's estimation of the readiness of Hydra:


> Brian _ October 28, 2017 at 2:33 pm_
> 
> Been testing it for weeks. Still *very* buggy but that won't stop them from going ahead with it. Other testers are dumbfounded that they're going to release it so soon. I'd recommend waiting a month or two before anyone installs it.


The TiVo Hydra Heads Up

Something to think on/keep in mind.


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## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

krkaufman said:


> I'm a bit confused as to why you'd be so lusty for the new BOLT, given it's the same as the old BOLT plus the potential for voice control (if running Hydra/gen4). You can still pick up a BOLT, VOX or not, and run the gen3 UI, to gain the performance benefits of the BOLT series.


If I buy a Bolt, I'd rather not have the first task be to revert to previous software. I assume that new Bolts will come loaded with Hydra -- at least by the time of the next sale, whenever that might be.

And Ted implied that Gen 3 will probably be left behind at some point. I don't want to be forced to lose the Live Guide when that time comes. Or to lose out on possible new functions that won't trickle back to Gen 3.

Also, I generally like the idea of the new UI -- pending reviews here in the next few weeks. I don't mind change, but the Live Guide is to me a core function of the TiVo. I have of course lived with grid guides on many cable and third party DVRs over the years. I'd really rather not go back.

I'm interested to see what develops after 10/29.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

osu1991 said:


> yes


doesn't the tivo need access to the pc at all for plex or isn't that considered a pc to tivo transfer?


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

ajwees41 said:


> doesn't the tivo need access to the pc at all for plex or isn't that considered a pc to tivo transfer?


Plex is a media server. It does run on the PC, but could also be on compatible NAS or other devices. The Plex server is just serving up a media stream that any compatible app/device can use. It doesn't have to be a Tivo. It could be a Tivo, Roku, Chromecast, smart tv etc. Anything with a compatible Plex app.

The Tivo doesn't need access to the computer to access Plex, the Tivo just needs an network or internet connection.


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

I was a Live Guide user from the S2 I got some time around 2000 to several months ago. It suited my channel surfing needs just fine but the biggest limitation for me was that there was no way to tell when a program started. So I'd see on the Live Guide a movie or show I like, get all excited and change to that channel, only to realize it's about 75% done. With the grid guide I know right away when something started and if it's worth my while to switch to that channel. (Though I'll probably change the channel again in a few minutes, truth be told.) After seeing this thread I tried switching back to the Live Guide for old time's sake, but realized I've gotten used to the grid guide.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> So those on the beta test can comment at 12:01am Eastern time? GRIN


Not about anything in their beta testing, that's NDA covered, but I'm sure some folks could certainly talk about Hydra experiences and not say where those experiences came from.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

schatham said:


> I disagree. If you have movie channels it's nice to see ahead quickly to see if something interesting is on over night or while at work. Their are lots of shows and movies that I scan for vs knowing what I want.
> 
> I'm a 100% live guide user.


That is not channel surfing. Channel surfing is watching live tv.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I never channel-surfed, even in the days of three stations and a VCR. So Live Guide was basically invented for me.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Injust find life guide counterintuitive. You have to know where you are to know what the FF and REW buttons do for example. Grid is simple. Up/down left/right. 

Then you got to tomorrow on the right and change the channel and you are back to now. 

Clumsy.


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## wtherrell (Dec 23, 2004)

Mikeguy said:


> I'm not a tech. engineer. But these things--Live Guide and the SPS backdoor codes--already exist and have been successful and well-liked, even to the extreme. One would wish that these modules "simply" could be imported into the new UI as the optional successes they have been. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it . . . ."


Or as Yogi said "If it ain't broke, don't break it".


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## wtherrell (Dec 23, 2004)

toricred said:


> This is an overly broad statement. I personally hate the Liv Guide so it had nothing to do with my purchase.


But you have a choice of which to use, n'est ce pas?


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

Do the "A", "B", "C" sort buttons still work? To me this is the best thing about the TiVo guild. Looking for a SyFi movie, sort by movie>HD>SyFi and it list movies available.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

idksmy said:


> It is disappointing how such basic information, with a date of 10/28, is wrong, when the accurate information is in this forum. And then someone posts a link to it. I guess some people want to be first, even when the information is wrong.


Looks like someone misread or misunderstood my post. Download shows to PC works. Upload shows from PC does not.


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## idksmy (Jul 16, 2016)

I did. Mea culpa.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> So those on the beta test can comment at 12:01am Eastern time? GRIN


Yeah, somebody should have put together an exhaustive set of questions/features that beta testers could have used for testing and then published after general release (w/ responses updated to only address the released software).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> What I found equally disappointing/disturbing in Dave Zatz' blog today, an asserted Hydra tester's estimation of the readiness of Hydra:
> 
> The TiVo Hydra Heads Up


Which isn't really fair to TiVo or Hydra, since all but one person are abiding by the terms of the beta test and so there's no way to gauge the actual, overall feedback on the software.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> Which isn't really fair to TiVo or Hydra, since all but one person are abiding by the terms of the beta test and so there's no way to gauge the actual, overall feedback on the software.


Well, guess we'll have a more balanced view starting in, what, maybe 12 hours (although then, try to keep it all straight!)?  Exciting times!


----------



## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

schatham said:


> I disagree. If you have movie channels it's nice to see ahead quickly to see if something interesting is on over night or while at work. Their are lots of shows and movies that I scan for vs knowing what I want.
> 
> I'm a 100% live guide user.


Maybe I wasn't totally clear because I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with. Sure, IN ADDITION to what I said, live guide is good for searching for a movie that might interest one on movie channels. I do that regularly. I will also use the live guide to peruse say the Science Channel to see if anything catches my eye.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

sharkster said:


> Let me try this again - the Tivo clock is a small clock you can have on the upper right of your screen. Additionally, it shows where you are in a recording when you're watching a recording. I like it for a few reasons. One of which is that if it's gone I know the Tivo has restarted.
> 
> In live tv just hit -
> 
> ...


Thanks. So that's why I've never missed it, you have to dig for it. I've always just hit the button that brings up the program info which has the time and channel in the bar.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> Injust find life guide counterintuitive. You have to know where you are to know what the FF and REW buttons do for example. Grid is simple. Up/down left/right.
> 
> Then you got to tomorrow on the right and change the channel and you are back to now.
> 
> Clumsy.


Live Guide and Grid guide uses the same buttons to got forward and back days. As well as page up and down.

I switched one of my Bolts to the Grid guide last night to see if I could live with it. It will certainly work. But it sucks that so much text is cut off for each title. You can't even see the full name for a very large percentage of titles.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

davezatz said:


> Looks like someone misread or misunderstood my post. Download shows to PC works. Upload shows from PC does not.


That would be a deal breaker for me. Being able to download and upload shows is one of the big benefits of TiVo over the cable companies offerings.

Scott


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> Live Guide and Grid guide uses the same buttons to got forward and back days. As well as page up and down.


Nope. The buttons change what they do based upon if you are on the left or right part of live guide.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

mlsnyc said:


> I was a Live Guide user from the S2 I got some time around 2000 to several months ago. It suited my channel surfing needs just fine but the biggest limitation for me was that there was no way to tell when a program started. So I'd see on the Live Guide a movie or show I like, get all excited and change to that channel, only to realize it's about 75% done. With the grid guide I know right away when something started and if it's worth my while to switch to that channel.


This sounded odd to me so had to go check.  The Live Guide shows the start and end time of the current show in the show information at the top of the screen. 9:00am-11:00am for a movie that I just checked and it has the current time (10:00am now).

Scott


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

HerronScott said:


> This sounded odd to me so had to go check.  The Live Guide shows the start and end time of the current show in the show information at the top of the screen. 9:00am-11:00am for a movie that I just checked and it has the current time (10:00am now).
> 
> Scott


I think he meant it isn't as obvious. You have to look there and determine the time. The grid has an arrow to the left on shows that started earlier than the current time block. Not sure why they didn't just put that on the Live Guide.

Which brings me to another issue for me in the live guide. No sense of time. Just a list of shows. Short and long have the same space allocated. I can see why that could be good but it throws me off.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> I think he meant it isn't as obvious. You have to look there and determine the time. The grid has an arrow to the left on shows that started earlier than the current time block. Not sure why they didn't just put that on the Live Guide.


I was wondering if he meant that it wasn't as obvious at a glance but he did say no way to tell what time a program started.

Scott


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

HerronScott said:


> I was wondering if he meant that it wasn't as obvious at a glance but he did say no way to tell what time a program started.
> 
> Scott


I believe he said "right away" not not at all. And I agree. The data is there but not as easy to relate to.

One of the things that drives me a bit batty about the existing UI is that information jumps all over the screen in different views and is non-existent on some (like show length is missing in some views) plus inconsistent navigation at times. I hope hydra cleans up some of that but I don't have high hopes.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

mlsnyc said:


> I was a Live Guide user from the S2 I got some time around 2000 to several months ago. It suited my channel surfing needs just fine but the biggest limitation for me was that *there was no way to tell when a program started.* So I'd see on the Live Guide a movie or show I like, get all excited and change to that channel, only to realize it's about 75% done. With the grid guide I know right away when something started and if it's worth my while to switch to that channel.





TonyD79 said:


> I believe he said "right away" not not at all. And I agree. The data is there but not as easy to relate to.


I did quote the "no way to tell" part in my earlier reply and that was specifically the part I was commenting on. Not really sure how you can't see it right away either, but I think the difference would be that on the Grid Guide, you could see that visually without having to move down to the channel?

Scott


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

HerronScott said:


> I did quote the "no way to tell" part in my earlier reply and that was specifically the part I was commenting on. Not really sure how you can't see it right away either, but I think the difference would be that on the Grid Guide, you could see that visually without having to move down to the channel?
> 
> Scott


On the grid guide there is an arrow pointing to the left next to the title of the show. So you see it right away. That is missing on the live guide. It has the start time but you have to realize that you are not in that time slot. It just takes thought rather than being right there. And, yes, you have to select the show to verify it on the live guide. Also, since the grid guide has blocks sized to show length, you get that visual as well. Quick visuals are always better. All they had to do was put the left arrow on the show name in the live guide and it would solve that problem.

But TiVo is not really about UI usability.


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## Kivo (Feb 20, 2003)

Personally, I will never choose a Hydra upgrade unless/until it includes the TiVo Live Guide. We use it exclusively and find it much superior to the grid guide. 

This is a feature that TiVo invented and one of the things that makes TiVo so much better than other DVRs. I don’t know why you would even think of excluding it. 

This is just one of the reasons that TiVo is struggling. They don’t know how to market what makes them special. Furthermore, they don’t even recognize what makes them special. So now, not only are they not getting the message across to new users, but they are slowly losing those features that make them special. They are becoming more similar to all those crappy cable company DVRs. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

HerronScott said:


> I did quote the "no way to tell" part in my earlier reply and that was specifically the part I was commenting on. Not really sure how you can't see it right away either, but I think the difference would be that on the Grid Guide, you could see that visually without having to move down to the channel?
> 
> Scott


I suppose I should've qualified it by saying there's no way to tell just by looking at the entire Live Guide. I didn't think I needed to, but I guess I did.

With the Live Guide, what you can see at first glance is what's playing now or what's about to start. You can't actually tell if a show is about to start, has already started, is a 1/2 hour or an hour in, etc. In order to do that, you'd need to go and select the program you were interested in so you can see info like the program description and the time it's playing. And you'd need to do that with every show you're interested in. Whereas with the grid guide, you can see just by looking at the guide how far along the current programs are, as well as what's coming up next.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

I upgraded to Hydra this morning to check it out and as a Live Guide user I feel “crippled” with out. Just a word of caution to any fans of it if you decide to upgrade.


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## obeythelaw2004 (Oct 27, 2013)

How come no one has posted some screen shots?


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

obeythelaw2004 said:


> How come no one has posted some screen shots?


Probably because there is a video with it you can check out that's posted here.


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## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

Has any tried to capture a channel on a non upgraded mini from an upgraded host or vice versa ? Just wondering if it works.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

JACKASTOR said:


> Has any tried to capture a channel on a non upgraded mini from an upgraded host or vice versa ? Just wondering if it works.


I wasn't even able to get my Mini to work properly after I installed Hydra on my Roamio; it kept flashing the screen and I pulled the plug a few times to keep rebooting it until it updated itself. I'm pretty sure TiVo Ted indicated it wouldn't work and I can tell you it didn't work for me.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> I upgraded to Hydra this morning to check it out and as a Live Guide user I feel "crippled" with out. Just a word of caution to any fans of it if you decide to upgrade.


it's already been mentioned that there is no live guide.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

ajwees41 said:


> it's already been mentioned that there is no live guide.


Yes I know, just wanted to point out to Live Guide fans like myself that having no Live Guide is worse in practice than I thought it would be in case they are thinking of upgrading and unsure.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Yes I know, just wanted to point out to Live Guide fans like myself that having no Live Guide is worse in practice than I thought it would be in case they are thinking of upgrading and unsure.


Wow.

I just don't understand how much this live guide means to some of you.

Heaven forbid you ever have to use another Dvr or have to live with things like sling tv which has no guide at all.


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

I was always a live guide user the few times I'd actually use the guide. But my late wife would be livid. Sometimes I think she spent more time in the guide than she did actually watching anything. 

Ironically, the only time I'd use the grid guide was to go through marking and deleting channels. I would rely on sorting by channel name to do it. Of course, that option is no longer there. So no live guide and the only reason I'd use the grid guide no longer works either.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

TonyD79 said:


> Wow.
> 
> I just don't understand how much this live guide means to some of you.
> 
> Heaven forbid you ever have to use another Dvr or have to live with things like sling tv which has no guide at all.


I had a Moxi DVR from 2009-14 which also had a guide identical to the Live Guide and a TiVo since then. So it's been almost 8 years since I used any other type of grid. And each night or morning I scroll through the channels I frequently watch and can see what's upcoming all night or day long.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> Heaven forbid you ever have to use another Dvr or have to live with things like sling tv which has no guide at all.


There are lots of reasons I've been a TiVo guy since 2001.

That's one of them.


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## chrishicks (Dec 31, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> Wow.
> 
> I just don't understand how much this live guide means to some of you.
> 
> Heaven forbid you ever have to use another Dvr or have to live with things like sling tv which has no guide at all.


Out of curiosity, if this were reversed and the Grid Guide was the one removed and you were pushed into using the Live Guide would you feel the same way? And I do use another DVR in my house, an X1, and I hate the Grid Guide on that too. I just happen to have a preference and mine is the Live Guide that I've been using for years. Why is it so wrong that I/we like one over the other?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Yes I know, just wanted to point out to Live Guide fans like myself that having no Live Guide is worse in practice than I thought it would be in case they are thinking of upgrading and unsure.


I'm thinking just the opposite. With Hydra and the Grid guide, I can see ten channels at once. Of course it's only out to two hours. But at least I can quickly advance ahead by two hours at a time. Or by a day at a time. Of course it's not as functional for me as the Live Guide. But I am willing to lose the Live Guide for now to get access to all of the improvements with the new UI. I am really enjoying the Hydra UI. A larger font, larger preview window, a more modern interface etc.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I showed the video to my wife - she saw the guide and abruptly said NO.

No upgrade for me, at least for a while...


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## wtherrell (Dec 23, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> Wow.
> 
> I just don't understand how much this live guide means to some of you.
> 
> Heaven forbid you ever have to use another Dvr or have to live with things like sling tv which has no guide at all.


I have had to deal with a Spectrum DVR with only a grid guide. It SUCKS! Big time! Sorry you can't understand. Maybe it SUCKS! Is something that you can begin to understand.


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## mbernste (Apr 6, 2003)

The Live Guide is horrible. You can't scan multiple shows on multiple channels at once. Good riddance to bad rubbish!
With the grid guide you can see multiple shows on multiple channels. Why in the world would someone ever want to see _*less information*_ with that gosh awful Live Guide?


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## mbernste (Apr 6, 2003)

ajwees41 said:


> per davezatz The TiVo Hydra Heads Up looks like no more tivo to pc transfers


It's PC to TiVo that doesn't work. TiVo to PC (i.e. using KMTTG) works just fine.


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## Leon WIlkinson (Feb 13, 2000)

bradleys said:


> I showed the video to my wife - she saw the guide and abruptly said NO.
> 
> No upgrade for me, at least for a while...


If they would like have say the D button bring up a live guide box to the right of the screen, you could have the grid guide for clarity with what is currently on and have the live guide for good 8-12+ Hrs of viewing.

I don't have Hydra but the tricky part I believe would be getting into the Live Guide Box maybe the advance button could be used as a Right button to go into the box, or maybe if the Live Guide is on only the current show would shown on the grid and a right would take you in the Live Guide box. Yes, I just re-read what I just described LOL

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mbernste said:


> The Live Guide is horrible. You can't scan multiple shows on multiple channels at once. Good riddance to bad rubbish!
> With the grid guide you can see multiple shows on multiple channels. Why in the world would someone ever want to see _*less information*_ with that gosh awful Live Guide?


Actually, you can see more information. A LOT more information! It just depends on which information you want to see.


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## sdpadres (Dec 28, 2003)

Woke up this morning and had to reboot both minis. I was getting a Cablecard error. After rebooting everything worked correctly. Tivo DVR box was fine, no reboot necessary. Hope this isn't a daily issue. Did not have this issue prior to downloading Hydra. Anyone else experience this problem?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

chrishicks said:


> Out of curiosity, if this were reversed and the Grid Guide was the one removed and you were pushed into using the Live Guide would you feel the same way? And I do use another DVR in my house, an X1, and I hate the Grid Guide on that too. I just happen to have a preference and mine is the Live Guide that I've been using for years. Why is it so wrong that I/we like one over the other?


I wouldn't refuse to update. I wouldn't be happy but I'd work with it.

I understand preferences but some of these posts sound more like tantrums.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

wtherrell said:


> I have had to deal with a Spectrum DVR with only a grid guide. It SUCKS! Big time! Sorry you can't understand. Maybe it SUCKS! Is something that you can begin to understand.


Well, here you go.

I have used many, many dvrs over the years with various guides. The Live Guide SUCKS. Got it?

It is completely counterintuitive and is not how anything else in the world works. There is a reason for that. Because it is not efficient, makes little sense to most people and sucks.

Now, that I've lowered to the level of your post, got it?

I really don't care which guide you use. I am just amazed at the zealotry.


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## schatham (Mar 17, 2007)

TonyD79 said:


> I wouldn't refuse to update. I wouldn't be happy but I'd work with it.


That's what I'm doing. I prefer live guide, but glad I updated. I'm sure in a few weeks the grid guide will seem fine, just need to adapt my eyes to the big gob of info.

The new interface is very nice and looks modern. Sure you have to learn some new ways of navigating, but that will happen.


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## wtherrell (Dec 23, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> Well, here you go.
> 
> I have used many, many dvrs over the years with various guides. The Live Guide SUCKS. Got it?
> 
> ...


Yes, we are zealots. And you apparently are as well. Why can't Tivo accommodate both camps as they have done for many years?


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## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

mbernste said:


> The Live Guide is horrible. You can't scan multiple shows on multiple channels at once. Good riddance to bad rubbish!
> With the grid guide you can see multiple shows on multiple channels. Why in the world would someone ever want to see _*less information*_ with that gosh awful Live Guide?


The Grid Guide is horrible. You can't scan days worth of shows with just a couple button presses. Good riddance to bad rubbish! With the live guide you can see blocks of time instead of just two hours. Why in the world would someone ever want to see _*less information*_ with that gosh awful Grid Guide?


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## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> The Live Guide SUCKS. Got it?


That's your opinion. Others think the Grid Guide sucks, but we're not asking your choice to use that be removed from you. Show others that same courtesy.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

stile99 said:


> That's your opinion. Others think the Grid Guide sucks, but we're not asking your choice to use that be removed from you. Show others that same courtesy.


I never asked for the live guide to be removed. Do not put words in my mouth. I'm commenting on how religious some are about it.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I'm not religious about it...I've used both, and I find the Live Guide useful (under certain circumstances), and the Grid Guide not at all useful.

And what I find worse about losing the Live Guide is that we also seem to have lost Search By Channel, which is really what I used the Live Guide as an alternative to. So now, not only do I lose the Live Guide, I also lose the ability to do what I did with the Live Guide (i.e., find out what's coming up on a channel without having to constantly scroll).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

midas said:


> Ironically, the only time I'd use the *grid guide* was to go through *marking and deleting channels*. I would rely on *sorting by channel name* to do it. Of course, that option is no longer there.


Just wanted to echo this factor, the gravity of which I'd diminished since (1) I didn't start using Hydra/gen4 from scratch, having started with an already trimmed My Channels list (now just 'Channel List'), and (2) Comcast's recent grouping of channels has shifted us to just using 'sort by number', though we'd primarily used 'sort by name,' previously.

Sorting the Grid Guide by name is immensely useful when pruning All Channels down to just those channels a TiVo should/could be recording.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm not religious about it...I've used both, and I find the Live Guide useful (under certain circumstances), and the Grid Guide not at all useful.
> 
> And what I find worse about losing the Live Guide is that we also seem to have lost Search By Channel, which is really what I used the Live Guide as an alternative to. So now, not only do I lose the Live Guide, I also lose the ability to do what I did with the Live Guide (i.e., find out what's coming up on a channel without having to constantly scroll).


Similar to you, I use the Live Guide to check out what's playing on any given channel over the course of a few days, especially movie channels, to see if I want to set up recordings. Same with college football on Saturdays, I can see exactly how many games are on each channel and who is playing.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> Wow.
> 
> I just don't understand how much this live guide means to some of you.
> 
> Heaven forbid you ever have to use another Dvr or have to live with things like sling tv which has no guide at all.


And others are obsessed with channel numbers. Heaven forbid they use a Roku or IPTV which has no channel numbers at all. 

I don't get ANY obsession. I think most people adapt to whatever interface is presented to them. I lived with one DVR having a live guide and another having a grid guide for several years, and my head didn't explode. The sun still rose in the morning and set in the evening.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> I upgraded to Hydra this morning to check it out and as a Live Guide user I feel "crippled" with out. Just a word of caution to any fans of it if you decide to upgrade.


I'm also a huge Live Guide fan. Just curious, do you ever use the mobile TiVo app? Fortunately for me, Live Guide functionality is alive and well on my iPhone and iPad.


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## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> I never asked for the live guide to be removed. Do not put words in my mouth. I'm commenting on how religious some are about it.


And I'm commenting how religious you are in your hatred of it. Did the Live Guide run over your dog or something?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

I see no reason to be overly concerned what type of guide a person likes. For me personally the live guide works better for what I use the guide on my TiVo for. For others the Grid guide works better. 

The only reason this matters is because we know have an option. Stay with the current UI or switch to the new UI. My guess is no person will find either UI perfect and will have minor or even major issues with both. There is no rush to make this decision, and there is certainly no reason to not tell TiVo what one would like to see fixed or added to the new UI. 

The current UI does what I want it to very well and I am having very few issues with it. So I will not be changing for now. I will however be watching the new UIs development and of course voicing my opinions on how I think it should be changed to be more useful for me. 

Right now I would certainly like the live guided added to the new UI and I certainly would like PC to TiVo transfers added/fixed. I see no reason why anyone should be overly concerned with my actions or the actions of others to ask for what would be more useful to them. In the end TiVo will do what TiVo will do and we either take it or move on.


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

BobCamp1 said:


> And others are obsessed with channel numbers. Heaven forbid they use a Roku or IPTV which has no channel numbers at all.


Are the channels listed alphabetically? Yea, we can't do that anymore either.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

About 50% of users use live guide over the grid guide. The reason Tivo selected grid guide to promote is simply because that is what the MSO's want.

I don't think one is any better than the other, they both have different strengths. @TiVo_Ted indicated they may add alive functionality to the grid guide... we will see.

From my perspective, this is a huge change and as long as I have an option, my wife will rather I wait - simply because of the live guide vs. the grid guide.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

Steve said:


> I'm also a huge Live Guide fan. Just curious, do you ever use the mobile TiVo app? Fortunately for me, Live Guide functionality is alive and well on my iPhone and iPad.


Yes, I have the TiVo apps on both my iPad and iPhone but usually only use those if I am away from home and want to set a recording. It's nice how the guide is laid out there but not something I'd prefer to use on a daily basis unless at some future date I have to upgrade and the Live Guide is retired.


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## dtremit (Mar 17, 2002)

mbernste said:


> It's PC to TiVo that doesn't work. TiVo to PC (i.e. using KMTTG) works just fine.


Apologies if this is a stupid question -- but are PC to TiVo transfers temporarily broken with Hydra, or permanently removed?


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

BobCamp1 said:


> And others are obsessed with channel numbers. Heaven forbid they use a Roku or IPTV which has no channel numbers at all.
> 
> I don't get ANY obsession. I think most people adapt to whatever interface is presented to them. I lived with one DVR having a live guide and another having a grid guide for several years, and my head didn't explode. The sun still rose in the morning and set in the evening.


I think anyone can adapt but the question is do we want to? Why change if you like what you use and there is no need? At some point in the future we may all need to upgrade to Hydra and then we will have to use whatever is there.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

dtremit said:


> Apologies if this is a stupid question -- but are PC to TiVo transfers temporarily broken with Hydra, or permanently removed?


I suggest it is likely permanent. Tivo may surprise me, but two mechanisms were used to deprecate that functionality. MRS (streaming) from Tivo to tivo and Plex for streaming from PC to TiVo. The fact that they never updated the UI screens on the Gen 3 UI speaks volumes.


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

One must ask oneself, "Why did they remove the Live Guide option to begin with?". For that matter, why doesn't the downgrade app (whenever it might show up) at least leave the recordings and 1p's there?

It seems they want to make this more like the X1. I really do not understand why. The Tivo UI was/is very unique and we paid a lot of money for our equipment and service. Actually I have close to 200 1P's (maybe 150 active) and I know what I watch (hard to watch these days with all the news swirling around). I have always thought the grid guide was stupid and I lived with it for many years before Tivo and do not care to return to it.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

dtremit said:


> Apologies if this is a stupid question -- but are PC to TiVo transfers temporarily broken with Hydra, or permanently removed?





bradleys said:


> I suggest it is likely permanent. Tivo may surprise me, but two mechanisms were used to deprecate that functionality. MRS (streaming) from Tivo to tivo and Plex for streaming from PC to TiVo. The fact that they never updated the UI screens on the Gen 3 UI speaks volumes.


My impression was that PC-to-TiVo is on the Hydra to-do list. But who knows what will make it through, of course.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> Unique does not mean better. Grid guides have flourished for a reason.


More popular doesn't mean better either. Personal preferences are rarely (if ever) based on objective criteria.


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

Just to add my voice to the mix (background info: I have five boxes and have been a Tivo user for about 15 years).

I just ordered and received the vox remote for my Roamio Pro. The "instructions" say Hydra is required for vox to work, so I I signed up for the upgrade - PRIOR to reading this thread. I guess I would have done so anyway, however I am truly disappointed to hear that both Live Guide and the SPS "always on" clock overlay are not supported with the new interface. Those are to VERY key features for me and they will be sorely missed. Hopefully these features will be restored in a later (not tooooo much later????) release of the interface.

Thanks for listening.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

ADG said:


> Just to add my voice to the mix (background info: I have five boxes and have been a Tivo user for about 15 years).
> 
> I just ordered and received the vox remote for my Roamio Pro. The "instructions" say Hydra is required for vox to work, so I I signed up for the upgrade - PRIOR to reading this thread. I guess I would have done so anyway, however I am truly disappointed to hear that both Live Guide and the SPS "always on" clock overlay are not supported with the new interface. Those are to VERY key features for me and they will be sorely missed. Hopefully these features will be restored in a later (not tooooo much later????) release of the interface.
> 
> Thanks for listening.


Recommended to let TiVo know--it responds to numbers (understandably).


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

While I liked a few of the backdoor codes, I don't think it's fair to hold it against Tivo when they stop working. I don't even know about the file transfer issue as I've never actually used it. I don't know if that was ever officially something they supported. 

But things like the Live Guide and the ability to play everything a folder are features that have been in the software from it's earliest incarnations. We've been through a lot of software upgrades over the years. I don't ever remember an update that took away documented supported features.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

midas said:


> I don't even know about the file transfer issue as I've never actually used it. I don't know if that was ever officially something they supported.


Definitely was supported with their TiVo Desktop software and although they've discontinued support for the software, you can still download it from them (you have to know the link). This was always one of the great feature of TiVo for us to be able to download and upload shows.

I'm surprised that you were not aware of this given how long you've been a member here and your number of posts. I'm guessing that you've never visited the Tivo Home Media Features and TivoToGo forum. 

Scott


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

HerronScott said:


> Definitely was supported with their TiVo Desktop software and although they've discontinued support for the software, you can still download it from them (you have to know the link). This was always one of the great feature of TiVo for us to be able to download and upload shows.
> 
> I'm surprised that you were not aware of this given how long you've been a member here and your number of posts. I'm guessing that you've never visited the Tivo Home Media Features and TivoToGo forum.
> 
> Scott


I do vaguely remember Tivo Desktop. I just never had the need to offload files before. I'm not a saver. Heck, I only own 2 DVDs and no Blu-Rays.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

TiVo_Ted said:


> If lack of a Live Guide is a deal breaker, you can choose to stay on the current release.


Lack of the TiVo Live Guide is a deal-breaker for me.

If I wanted a Grid Guide, I could have kept on using a VCR and the listings from the Sunday newspaper.


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## Stop the Crashes (May 24, 2010)

I just received my new TiVo Bolt Vox today and am very unhappy to find that Hydra is the OS. The TiVo Live Guide was far superior to the grid style. Please bring it back. Also, I can't find the old options to customize the advance and replay buttons to skip to the end or beginning of the buffer. I'd like to see those options come back too!


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Stop the Crashes said:


> I just received my new TiVo Bolt Vox today and am very unhappy to find that Hydra is the OS. The TiVo Live Guide was far superior to the grid style. Please bring it back. Also, I can't find the old options to customize the advance and replay buttons to skip to the end or beginning of the buffer. I'd like to see those options come back too!


Hold down the skip buttons to skip to beginning or end.

Try the up arrow for the hydra version of the live guide. It is tile based so some don't like it.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Stop the Crashes said:


> just received my new TiVo Bolt Vox today and am very unhappy to find that Hydra is the OS. The TiVo Live Guide was far superior to the grid style. Please bring it back. Also, I can't find the old options to customize the advance and replay buttons to skip to the end or beginning of the buffer. I'd like to see those options come back too!


You can downgrade to the gen3 UI if you prefer it but you will lose any recordings made unless you transfer them off to another TiVo or your PC.

Scott


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

Bring back live guide!

Haven’t had anything interesting to post in a while because the Daily Guide Updates have been going well.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Bring back live guide!
> 
> Haven't had anything interesting to post in a while because the Daily Guide Updates have been going well.


Google Image Result for https://media.giphy.com/media/26ufdQTBuayLDRE88/giphy.gif


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## Stop the Crashes (May 24, 2010)

HerronScott said:


> You can downgrade to the gen3 UI if you prefer it but you will lose any recordings made unless you transfer them off to another TiVo or your PC.
> 
> Scott


I have now down-revved (it's definitely NOT a "downgrade") and am so much happier! The down-rev still didn't bring back the option to customize the replay and skip forward buttons, however.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Stop the Crashes said:


> I have now down-revved (it's definitely NOT a "downgrade") and am so much happier! The down-rev still didn't bring back the option to customize the replay and skip forward buttons, however.


My Advance button skips to the end and beginning of a show when watching a recording or it skips to the end or beginning of the buffer when watching a live show that's buffered, but I have Advance set to skip to tck instead of scans forward 30 seconds.

Settting & Messages -> Remote, CableCARD & Devices -> Remote Control Setup -> ADVANCE & REPLAY Button Behaviors

Scott


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## rogmatic (Sep 17, 2009)

I really hope they fix the guide - the Live Guide was brilliant. Why don't they at least give you the option to keep that style? Same with the My Shows list - it is impossible to find an episode with all of those pictures.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

rogmatic said:


> I really hope they fix the guide - the Live Guide was brilliant. Why don't they at least give you the option to keep that style? Same with the My Shows list - it is impossible to find an episode with all of those pictures.


You may not be aware, but you can default to either poster or episode order text view when selecting a My Shows folder.

The new up arrow 'mini guide' only shows posters, but you can use >> to quickly page through all the upcoming shows on a channel (4 shows at a time), so it's pretty much as useful as the old live guide, IMHO.


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## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

Steve said:


> The new up arrow 'mini guide' only shows posters, but you can use >> to quickly page through all the upcoming shows on a channel (4 shows at a time), so it's pretty much as useful as the old live guide, IMHO.


Even better, upcoming movie images are half-size so you can have up to 8 showing on a channel. This is helpful. (But I do find that the images don't register in my brain as quickly as text would.)


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## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

TonyD79 said:


> Hold down the skip buttons to skip to beginning or end.
> 
> Try the up arrow for the hydra version of the live guide. It is tile based so some don't like it.





Phil_C said:


> Even better, upcoming movie images are half-size so you can have up to 8 showing on a channel. This is helpful. (But I do find that the images don't register in my brain as quickly as text would.)


yeah, for some reason, my old, non-millennial brain can still read faster than justify big, shiny pictures. I'm sorry.


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## Stop the Crashes (May 24, 2010)

Settting & Messages -> Remote, CableCARD & Devices -> Remote Control Setup -> ADVANCE & REPLAY Button Behaviors

That option doesn’t exist after the down-rev. However pressing and holding the advance or replay button does still go to the end or beginning of the buffer. I can live with that.


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## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

krkaufman said:


> Thanks for posting, @bradleys.
> 
> edit: p.s. @TiVo_Ted has said he'll look into whether there are any plans regarding the Live Guide making its way back into the gen4/Hydra UI:
> ​... but since the status of the Live Guide in Hydra is officially confirmed, feel free to direct feedback via the TiVo Feature Requests form, or your feedback channel of choice.


done. submitted. complained about


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Stop the Crashes said:


> That option doesn't exist after the down-rev. However pressing and holding the advance or replay button does still go to the end or beginning of the buffer. I can live with that.


This is from my gen3 UI Roamio Pro? I would still expect it to be there in gen3 Bolt as well. Anyone else here have a gen3 Bolt to confirm this is missing on all of them?

Scott


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## sdmf74 (Sep 30, 2018)

Looks like they removed the "Live guide" feature again, this time from the experience 4 software.whats the deal? It was one of the best features!
I only had my tivos for a couple months before the experience 4 dropped and I had all my boxes previously set to the live guide for searching for programs to watch. It was much more conveniant. Why drop an opti optional guide feature? I dont get it.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

sdmf74 said:


> I dont get it.


Like I said in your thread, vote: Hydra... Bring back Live Guide!!!!


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## sdmf74 (Sep 30, 2018)

JoeKustra said:


> Like I said in your thread, vote: Hydra... Bring back Live Guide!!!!


Yes I voted for live guide. Isnt that post/poll old and referring to the old software?
Im not sure what Hydra is im a new tivo owner/user but im on the new experience 4 software with an Arris MG2 dvr and client boxes (qi3 I think).
Seems ridiculous they would remove the live guide feature as it was optional anyway.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

sdmf74 said:


> Yes I voted for live guide. Isnt that post/poll old and referring to the old software?
> Im not sure what Hydra is im a new tivo owner/user but im on the new experience 4 software with an Arris MG2 dvr and client boxes (qi3 I think).
> Seems ridiculous they would remove the live guide feature as it was optional anyway.


TE4 == Hydra == 21.* software == Mira == new experience 4 == current software.


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

Are we still talking about this??? I am on Page 3 of the Coffee House now and still I have not found the thread for the latest TE4, not that I am expecting anything good to change.

Did they fix the Push yet? Live Guide yet? JUST KIDDING, TIVO, INC COULD CARE LESS...


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