# TiVo Mini same cabling as CATV?



## Davepl (Aug 27, 2002)

I have Comcast service and was trying their X1 master/slave boxes but its pretty brutal. Since I already have a Roamio and a couple of slightly older boxes, I figured TiVo minis would be a good solution.

Unfortunately I do not have Ethernet at all of the TVs. My question is whether its as simple as connecting the mini to the household cable on the MoAC jack and it will magically communicate with the Roamio because it too is connected to the cable. By cable I mean the household coax system that currently delivers CATV.

According to the Wikipedia article they're -supposed- to operate on different frequencies than CATV service, but does the scenario I describe above actually work? And work at the same time as CATV service in the same house on the same cabling?

That would also mean the Roamio would have to support MoaC on it's "CATV In" and I just never knew about it.

Thanks!
Dave


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

What model Roamio?


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## Davepl (Aug 27, 2002)

Where can I find that? In System Info it says "Series5" and software version 2.4.4.something


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Davepl said:


> Where can I find that? In System Info it says "Series5" and software version 2.4.4.something


How many tuners does it have?


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## Davepl (Aug 27, 2002)

I only see 5 in the Live Tv mode (where the red or grey circles show you what's being viewed or recorded) but in DVR Diagnostics it lists tuners 0 through 5.

So, I think it is 6 tuners.


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

So, you have a Roamio Plus or Roamio Pro. How is this connected to your home network? Ethernet or wireless?

If it's Ethernet, you will be able to setup the Roamio to create a MoCA network, thereby allowing you to simply connect the Mini to a coax outlet and provide network access that way.

If it's connected via wireless, you would need to buy a single MoCA adapter (Tivo.com website sells a single adapter for ~$50. You would have to connect this via Ethernet to your home router, and then connect the MoCA adapter to a coax outlet. This would provide the MoCA network and you could setup both the Roamio and any additional Mini's to connect that way.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

You should also look into having a MoCA POE filter installed.


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## Davepl (Aug 27, 2002)

The Roamio itself is one a gigabit LAN. When you say "you will be able to setup the Roamio to create a MoCA network", can you expand on that a bit?

I'm not sure if you mean a hardware bridge, a setting on the Roamio, or what that entails.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Davepl said:


> The Roamio itself is one a gigabit LAN. When you say "you will be able to setup the Roamio to create a MoCA network", can you expand on that a bit?
> 
> I'm not sure if you mean a hardware bridge, a setting on the Roamio, or what that entails.


He's talking about using the Roamio as a bridge between the MoCA network and your wired Ethernet LAN.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Yep moca really does work.

As long as the Roamio Plus/Pro is connected by ethernet, you can go into Settings > Network and select "Use this DVR to create a moca network" and then the Minis will only need a coax connection. (select moca when setting them up.)


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Can the Roamio be on wireless an mini on wired Ethernet plus coax and work? I had a Dish Hopper on wireless and Joey just on the coax and that MoCa worked great. Just not sure if I will have to cable the Roamio (basic).


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## Marty1781 (Jan 2, 2004)

Random User 7 said:


> Can the Roamio be on wireless an mini on wired Ethernet plus coax and work? I had a Dish Hopper on wireless and Joey just on the coax and that MoCa worked great. Just not sure if I will have to cable the Roamio (basic).


Unfortunately no. If you elect to use a Roamio's internal wifi card, it will be unable to connect to a Mini. You can use a wireless bridge, however, to wirelessly connect the Roamio to your network. However, depending on the quality/strength of the wireless signal, this may result in a compromised experience on the Mini (or not, just depends on the wireless signal).

Also, the Mini cannot utilize coax and ethernet simultaneously. You connect either coax (with MoCA) OR ethernet to the Mini, but not both. Either connection on its own is sufficient for the Mini to function properly.


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Thanks, I will either swap to locations of the mini and Roamio then or run another eithernet drop. Both are easy enough options. Appreciate the help.


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

So I looked behind the cabinet where I plan to put the Mini and Ethernet isn't there like I thought just coax. No access to run Ethernet either so here is my plan, let me know if it wouldn't work. Roamio basic will be connected via Ethernet. Install a MoCa adapter in the wire closet, connect Mini using MoCa.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Marty1781 said:


> Unfortunately no. If you elect to use a Roamio's internal wifi card, it will be unable to connect to a Mini. You can use a wireless bridge, however, to wirelessly connect the Roamio to your network. However, depending on the quality/strength of the wireless signal, this may result in a compromised experience on the Mini (or not, just depends on the wireless signal).
> 
> .............


SUre you can use wireless. My Roamio Basic is using wireless right now. I just went to the Mini in this room and changed the DVR connection to my Roamio Basic. It works without issue here. I can stream the live channels or recorded content over wireless just like if the Roamio Basic was using a wired connection. From a user point of view with the Mini, the performance is identical for me whether the Roamio is connected with a wired connection or the ethernet cable is unplugged and it is using wireless like it is right now..


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

How is your Mini connected (Ethernet or coax) if coax I'm guessing you have a MoCa adapter?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Random User 7 said:


> How is your Mini connected (Ethernet or coax) if coax I'm guessing you have a MoCa adapter?


Yes my four minis are currently connected over MoCA(I switch the Minis between MoCA, Ethernet, and wireless Bridges periodically) and I have an Actiontec MoCA adapter with GigE switch ports that gives network access to the four Minis.

But I can also use a wireless Bridge with the Minis and it will also work without issues on my network.


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

aaronwt said:


> Yes my four minis are connected over MoCA and I have an Actiontec MoCA adapter with GigE switch ports that gives network access to the four Minis.
> 
> But I can also use a wireless Bridge with the Minis and it will also work without issues on my network.


Sounds exactly how I planed to do it. Good to know the wireless works. Then I won't need to run the Ethernet. Bridge would work for me too but I'd rather do MoCa.

Every room has Ethernet in my house but the previous owner chose poorly where to install the jacks.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Random User 7 said:


> Sounds exactly how I planed to do it. Good to know the wireless works. Then I won't need to run the Ethernet. Bridge would work for me too but I'd rather do MoCa.
> 
> Every room has Ethernet in my house but the previous owner chose poorly where to install the jacks.


It has been a while since I've done a long term test with wireless on my Roamio Basic. There have been several updates since I last did it. I guess I should leave the Mini connected to the Roamio as a host over wireless for a while to see if any issues crop up.


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## Marty1781 (Jan 2, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> SUre you can use wireless. My Roamio Basic is using wireless right now. I just went to the Mini in this room and changed the DVR connection to my Roamio Basic. It works without issue here. I can stream the live channels or recorded content over wireless just like if the Roamio Basic was using a wired connection. From a user point of view with the Mini, the performance is identical for me whether the Roamio is connected with a wired connection or the ethernet cable is unplugged and it is using wireless like it is right now..


I don't know why that is seemingly working for you because according to this page on Tivo's website (http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2557), a Mini cannot interact with a Roamio that is on a wireless connection:

*"IMPORTANT: TiVo Mini does not support wireless connections and cannot interact with DVRs in your home that are on a wireless connection."*


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## Marty1781 (Jan 2, 2004)

Random User 7 said:


> So I looked behind the cabinet where I plan to put the Mini and Ethernet isn't there like I thought just coax. No access to run Ethernet either so here is my plan, let me know if it wouldn't work. Roamio basic will be connected via Ethernet. Install a MoCa adapter in the wire closet, connect Mini using MoCa.


That should work well!


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

aaronwt said:


> It has been a while since I've done a long term test with wireless on my Roamio Basic. There have been several updates since I last did it. I guess I should leave the Mini connected to the Roamio as a host over wireless for a while to see if any issues crop up.


From what I can see here 
http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2557 it could be using MoCa on both ends. This is under "I don't want to use my DVR to create a MoCa network"


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Random User 7 said:


> From what I can see here
> http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2557 it could be using MoCa on both ends. This is under "I don't want to use my DVR to create a MoCa network"


The Roamio Basic doesn't have MoCA. So it is impossible for it to be using MoCA when I have the Ethernet cable unplugged. WHen the Ethernet cable is unplugged the only way it can connect is over wireless. WHich is what I did last night. I unplugged the EThernet cable to force it to use wireless.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Marty1781 said:


> I don't know why that is seemingly working for you because according to this page on Tivo's website (http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2557), a Mini cannot interact with a Roamio that is on a wireless connection:
> 
> *"IMPORTANT: TiVo Mini does not support wireless connections and cannot interact with DVRs in your home that are on a wireless connection."*


I only know that last night I forced my Roamio Basic to use wireless by unplugging the EThernet cable(I only use the wireless connection when I take it to my GFs house and I have her WiFi AP setup identical to one of my APs). And then I changed the host DVR of one of my Minis from my Roamio Pro to my Roamio Basic. Then I went to live TV and switched between several OTA channels. And then streamed some content from the My SHows list. It worked the same as when I had the Ethernet cable connected.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I just checked the Mini I setup last night with my Roamio Basic as the host. The Mini is still able to stream Live OTA TV and stream from the My Shows list without any issues. The ROamio Basic is still connected to one of my 5Ghz Access Points and the Ethernet cable is still unplugged from the Roamio BAsic which forces it to use the wireless connection.

I get a link rate from the Roamio Basic to the AP of 300Mb/s. Which means useable bandwidth is no more than 150Mb/s. Of course an OTA stream is no more than 19Mb/s. Which is why it can stream flawlessly over wireless. And the wireless in the Roamio BAsic is also limited to the same speeds as the 100BT connection. So it won't exceed the transfer speeds than can be achieved when using it's Ethernet connection. So max transfer rates I get from my Roamio Basic are around 95Mb/s when transferring to a PC running KMTTG.


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## kherr (Aug 1, 2006)

It's just that Tivo doesn't officially support wireless on the Mini because of so many variables as to signal strength. For some it works fine and others it doesn't ... YMMV ...


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

kherr said:


> It's just that Tivo doesn't officially support wireless on the Mini because of so many variables as to signal strength. For some it works fine and others it doesn't ... YMMV ...


Yes. You need a properly setup WiFi network to avoid issues. And unfortunately the vast majority of residential WiFi networks are not setup properly. Many only have one AP. A properly setup Wifi Network will have multiple APs in multiple locations. To avoid over crowding, congestion issues, and signal strength issues.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> Yes. You need a properly setup WiFi network to avoid issues. And unfortunately the vast majority of residential WiFi networks are not setup properly. Many only have one AP. A properly setup Wifi Network will have multiple APs in multiple locations. To avoid over crowding, congestion issues, and signal strength issues.


So a properly setup wireless network has wired Ethernet to multiple APs? Why not just run the wire to your equipment?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> So a properly setup wireless network has wired Ethernet to multiple APs? Why not just run the wire to your equipment?


All equipment doesn't use ethernet connections. And you can't easily get an ethernet cable to all locations. I use thirteen IP cameras. Eight I use over wireless because I can't easily get an Ethernet cable to those locations. I have wireless tablets, a wireless phone. Several Chromecasts which are wireless only. Laptops using wireless and many other devices where it's just more convenient to use a wireless connection. But I also have dozens of devices using wired connections too.

At work we setup many clients with wireless networks. There are always multiple APs to get the proper coverage at each location. Of course these are commercial locations but the same difficulties apply to residential. And the only way to have a robust wifi network, to work properly from multiple areas, without congestion, is to have multiple APs in multiple locations.


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## kherr (Aug 1, 2006)

You may not be able to. In my brother's house he had his modem/router/ap in his basement. His daughter had a second story BR on the opposite side of the house. There was no way to run a cable. Older house with plaster walls etc. He already was able to run a cable to his office (almost directly above), and relocated the AP. This was enough to get his daughter's laptop connected again. Not everyone has a house that you can run cabling reasonably ...


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Exactly. But I've never seen a house where you couldn't locate multiple APs around the house. Now the locations might not be ideal. But you can still have multiple locations. And to get to some areas, MoCA or powerline adapters might be needed to feed the APs.. Plus each AP can only handle so much traffic. So if you have a lot of wireless Devices, multiple APs are a must. Even if they were co-located in the same area it would still be better than connecting everything to one AP and saturating it. And there are other ways to increase coverage like using external antennas with the APs(directional and/or omni-directional)


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> All equipment doesn't use ethernet connections. And you can't easily get an ethernet cable to all locations. I use thirteen IP cameras. Eight I use over wireless because I can't easily get an Ethernet cable to those locations. I have wireless tablets, a wireless phone. Several Chromecasts which are wireless only. Laptops using wireless and other devices where it's just more convenient to use a wireless connection. But I also have dozens of devices using wired connections too.
> 
> At work we setup up many clients with wireless networks. There are always multiple APs to get the proper coverage at each location. Of course these are commercial locations but the same difficulties apply to residential. And the only way to have a robust wifi network, to work properly from multiple areas, without congestion, is to have multiple APs in multiple locations.


And in the typical residential situation, it is just as difficult to run cable to the APs as it would be to run it to the equipment.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> And in the typical residential situation, it is just as difficult to run cable to the APs as it would be to run it to the equipment.


Yes. I explained that in the previous post. There are other ways to increase coverage and also extend a wired connection to an AP. To help increase the overall coverage of a dwelling. The solution might not be ideal, but it will easily be better than only using one AP for an entire household.

Of course if a household doesn't use a bunch of wireless devices, then that is a situation where multiple APs aren't needed. For instance my GF only uses wireless for her two Series TiVos. So I only have one AP/router setup in her house. But if she ends up getting a Lenovo Yoga like she has been talking about, I will be expanding her wireless network to provide more coverage with faster speeds. I will replace her current 2.4Ghz router with an ASus RT-N65U dual band router and also add a Dlink AP to her basement area. This will get her coverage in her entire house as well as coverage around the outside of her house in the front and back yard.


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## Marty1781 (Jan 2, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> I just checked the Mini I setup last night with my Roamio Basic as the host. The Mini is still able to stream Live OTA TV and stream from the My Shows list without any issues. The ROamio Basic is still connected to one of my 5Ghz Access Points and the Ethernet cable is still unplugged from the Roamio BAsic which forces it to use the wireless connection.
> 
> I get a link rate from the Roamio Basic to the AP of 300Mb/s. Which means useable bandwidth is no more than 150Mb/s. Of course an OTA stream is no more than 19Mb/s. Which is why it can stream flawlessly over wireless. And the wireless in the Roamio BAsic is also limited to the same speeds as the 100BT connection. So it won't exceed the transfer speeds than can be achieved when using it's Ethernet connection. So max transfer rates I get from my Roamio Basic are around 95Mb/s when transferring to a PC running KMTTG.


This is quite interesting. I was under the impression that Tivo put an active block that prevented Tivos that were connected via their internal wireless card from communicating with a Mini. It wasn't simply a YMMV situation but rather, again, Tivo actively preventing the communication from wirelessly connected Tivos. I believe I have also read reports from others stating the same (no communication with wirelessly connected Tivos). Not to doubt you, but I would be interested in hearing from others who are willing to test this out also.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> Yes. I explained that in the previous post. There are other ways to increase coverage and also extend a wired connection to an AP. To help increase the overall coverage of a dwelling. The solution might not be ideal, but it will easily be better than only using one AP for an entire household.


You keep viewing this as if most people are trying to set up a robust wireless network. Most people here are are just trying to create a network whereby all of their equipment, particulary their TiVos, can access the network. By all means, add access points if necessary (and you can afford it) to support your wireless devices like phones and pads or even laptops, but if you're gonna wire them via power adapters, then do the same for your TiVos.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Marty1781 said:


> This is quite interesting. I was under the impression that Tivo put an active block that prevented Tivos that were connected via their internal wireless card from communicating with a Mini. It wasn't simply a YMMV situation but rather, again, Tivo actively preventing the communication from wirelessly connected Tivos. I believe I have also read reports from others stating the same (no communication with wirelessly connected Tivos). Not to doubt you, but I would be interested in hearing from others who are willing to test this out also.


I've been streaming an OTA HD channel to the Mini now for over two hours from the Roamio BAsic that is using wireless. So far it has been rock solid.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> You keep viewing this as if most people are trying to set up a robust wireless network. Most people here are are just trying to create a network whereby all of their equipment, particulary their TiVos, can access the network. By all means, add access points if necessary (and you can afford it) to support your wireless devices like phones and pads or even laptops, but if you're gonna wire them via power adapters, then do the same for your TiVos.


I just don't see the point for a device that doesn't need the extra bandwidth. Of course if the wired connection is there you might as well use it. But for a device that might be moved around, the less connections to make the better. For a device that is only going to stream low bitrate content. Like cable content, OTA content or streaming apps like Netflix, Amazon or Vudu. Wireless can work perfectly well. Again if setup properly.


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

aaronwt said:


> The Roamio Basic doesn't have MoCA. So it is impossible for it to be using MoCA when I have the Ethernet cable unplugged. WHen the Ethernet cable is unplugged the only way it can connect is over wireless. WHich is what I did last night. I unplugged the EThernet cable to force it to use wireless.


Makes sense, I forgot about the basic not having it. Your setup is what I planned to do since I realized I don't have Ethernet at the Mini location. Glad to know it should work. This will allow me to not have to fish cable right away. Sounds like we have similar wireless setups. I have a handful of IP cameras and a few APs as well.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

So it's been around 7.5 hours now streaming an OTA HD channel from my Roamio Basic that is using wireless to a Mini on MoCA. I never saw any issues.


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Is the actiontec just between attached to the coax and then a cable to the router? When I looked at TiVo's website they said put it before your cable modem but that doesnt make much sense to me from a security perspective.

Edit: I noticed actiontec describes it the way I did in their diagram



> Unplug the power from your modem and router.
> Disconnect the coax cable from your cable modem's Cable In port and connect it to the MoCA Network Adapter's Coax In port. Optional: For a more secure and better-performing MoCA network, consider installing a MoCA POE Filter.
> Connect another coax cable from the MoCA network adapter's TV/STB Out port to the cable modem's Cable In port.
> Connect an Ethernet cable between the MoCA Network Adapter's Ethernet port and any available LAN (sometimes called Ethernet Out or Downlink) port on your router.
> ...


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

My Actiontec MoCa adapter with GigE ports is connected to a switch and that switch is connected to my router. I run all my TiVos through the same switch so they don't need to be routed through the switch in my router. Although when using wireless with my Roamio basic that does go through the router switch since my APs are connected to a different switch which goes to another port on the router.


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Thanks


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

@aaronwt, Maybe it's a situation where once the roamio is setup on Ethernet and then it's disconnected, it will maintain the connection when it switches to its internal wireless card? If you try to initially set it up via wireless it is probably blocked.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

HarperVision said:


> @aaronwt, Maybe it's a situation where once the roamio is setup on Ethernet and then it's disconnected, it will maintain the connection when it switches to its internal wireless card? If you try to initially set it up via wireless it is probably blocked.


I initially set it up for wireless. That is what I mostly use with my Roamio BAsic since I take it back and forth to my GFs house. But I have not taken it over there in a while so it had been connected to the wired connection prior to a few days ago.. AT my GFs house it is only connected over wireless and sometimes I will transfer content to her Series 3 TiVos. But that is rare since they are so slow with transfers. I've been putting my GFs Lifetime movies on DVD lately since she sets up so many of those recordings.

I know the connections are kind of weird though. Once I'm on wireless and I re-connect the Ethernet connection it will still try to use the wireless connection for transfers. I specifically need to go into the network setup to switch it. That's why I disconnect the EThernet cable to force it back to wireless since I know it will switch to it if the wired connection drops.


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## Davepl (Aug 27, 2002)

Over the last 2 weeks I have spent literally dozens of hours working on xFinity X1 and about 6+ hours talking to their techs, plus two visits, and one out of 4 boxes eventually worked.

Desperate for an alternative, after asking the basic questions here (thanks!) I ordered a TiVo mini to test drive. One click set up a MoCA ethernet-over-coax, and in literally 15 minutes I was done, up and running (then it did want to do a firmware update, but I didn't have to do anything). And the mini's are "free" lifetime service (ie: in the base price) so no service fees or subscription costs.

Summary: Boo Comcast. Yay TiVo.


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## DeltaOne (Sep 29, 2013)

Davepl said:


> Over the last 2 weeks I have spent literally dozens of hours working on xFinity X1 and about 6+ hours talking to their techs, plus two visits, and one out of 4 boxes eventually worked.


A few times a week I'll read the Xfinity customer support forum for X1. It seems the X1 is very finicky about the incoming and outgoing signal levels. If both aren't right it'll never work.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> You should also look into having a MoCA POE filter installed.


OP has X1, so he already has a POE filter, and may already have a MoCA bridge if he has the craptastic Comcast gateway.

TiVo is pretty much drop-in from there.


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