# Moving not OTA anymore!



## hicksville (Dec 4, 2015)

Have OTA lifetime, but now moving out to the country. The antenna site says we're too far out for an antenna. Can I use my OTA TIVO with Verizon FIOS- I know thr TIVO box would have to be modified. Is it possible? I love my TIVO and don't want to give it up.


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## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

Not unless it's a Roamio HD with a cable card slot that will do OTA or cable but not both at the same time.

I would think if your in an area that FiOS serves you'd be close enough to get tv reception.
Outside amplified tv antennas pull in signals from way way off.

Sent from my LG G4 using Tapatalk.


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## suzook (Oct 22, 2006)

hicksville said:


> Have OTA lifetime, but now moving out to the country. The antenna site says we're too far out for an antenna. Can I use my OTA TIVO with Verizon FIOS- I know thr TIVO box would have to be modified. Is it possible? I love my TIVO and don't want to give it up.


Ota roamio has no cable card tuners...will not work. Pm me, I might want to take it off your hands. I live on the island. Thanks


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## hicksville (Dec 4, 2015)

these are our channels. we can't put an antenna up outside due to HOA, but I guess we could in the attic... but our media center will be 2 floors below in the basement.

between Annapolis and Wash DC. Now this chart says we can use an antenna. the other channel list said no.


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## hicksville (Dec 4, 2015)

right now, we live mere miles from eg, channel 4, and it 's a POS with our indoor antenna


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

Read up on the OTARD regulations. HOA can't stop an outside installation if that is what's needed for reliable reception. Look for a used Roamio Basic that you can pull the cable card bracket out of. The OTA can do cable but it needs the cable card bracket. I pulled the bracket out of one of my Basic's that the cable tuner was bad and swapped it to the OTA and redid setup for cable and was good to go again. 


Sent from my iPhone


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## hicksville (Dec 4, 2015)

this is our current situation and ch 4 and 26/32 don't come in well. the rest fluctuate a bit. mohu leaf amplified from sam's club (50 miles I think)


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## hicksville (Dec 4, 2015)

osu1991 said:


> Read up on the OTARD regulations. HOA can't stop an outside installation if that is what's needed for reliable reception. Look for a used Roamio Basic that you can pull the cable card bracket out of. The OTA can do cable but it needs the cable card bracket. I pulled the bracket out of one of my Basic's that the cable tuner was bad and swapped it to the OTA and redid setup for cable and was good to go again.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


I was thinking I could get a roamio basic on ebay, pull the cable card bracket and plug verison fios into it. Then at least I dont have to pay them for 1-2 DVRs
is that right?? thx


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## tampa8 (Jan 26, 2016)

osu1991 said:


> Read up on the OTARD regulations. HOA can't stop an outside installation if that is what's needed for reliable reception......
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


That isn't the law. You are only entitled to put up an antenna in a non common area, and somewhere only you have access to and is under your control. You can ask to install it anywhere but the don't have to let you. It can't even hang out over in the air out of your space or they can deny it.


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

tampa8 said:


> That isn't the law. You are only entitled to put up an antenna in a non common area, and somewhere only you have access to and is under your control. You can ask to install it anywhere but the don't have to let you. It can't even hang out over in the air out of your space or they can deny it.


Ok did I miss something that said this would be a condo, townhome or something with a common area. OP said country so I assumed a stand alone home that wouldn't have a common area.


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## ciscokid (Jan 14, 2003)

By Federal law, HOA cannot restrict "recieve only" antennas. Tell 'em to go to xell and check on the rules.


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## skypros (May 19, 2015)

The HOA law was put in place because hoa's would not allow mini "satellite" dishes...... and if I remember correctly, the "antenna" can not be larger than 1 meter and can not be in a common area, or the antenna placement be in the way of safety. I also think you have to get permission on the placement of the "antenna"


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Yes, I believe it's The Telecommunications Act of 1996 (section 207) resulting in 47 C.F.R. Section 1.4000..... the law to throw in your HOA's face if need be.


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## olsen623 (Apr 29, 2016)

Antenna installs can be tricky. I live 35mi west of Chicago and EVERY indoor antenna I tried was utter crap. The solution for me was mounting the high gain VHF/UHF antenna on the roof, with a pre-amp, and I used a good quality RG6 coax run directly to the TiVo. 

Put it outside, put it up high, it'll work. You're not that far from the transmitters.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

suzook said:


> Ota roamio has no cable card tuners...will not work. Pm me, I might want to take it off your hands. I live on the island. Thanks


Not true. The Roamio OTA has the same tuners as the base model, QAM and ATSC. In fact I have them both working at the same time, contrary to popular belief.

You can do as has been already mentioned, take the Cablecard bracket out of an old Roamio or bolt and install it in the OTA and then do guided setup as you would any full fledged Roamio.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

HarperVision said:


> Not true. The Roamio OTA has the same tuners as the base model, QAM and ATSC. In fact I have them both working at the same time, contrary to popular belief.
> 
> You can do as has been already mentioned, take the Cablecard bracket out of an old Roamio or bolt and install it in the OTA and then do guided setup as you would any full fledged Roamio.


That is what I would do... I would purchase a used, base Roamio without service and grab the cable card bracket out of it.

I bet you can find one for less than $50


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## hicksville (Dec 4, 2015)

I'm having them run rg6 to the attic in the wiring stage, and hopefully an internal antenna will work there. 

Hoa will not allow external antenna. It's explicity written in. I'd rather modify my Roamio OTA than begin my relationship with them fighting over this. It is a house, in a community with rules.

If i get an old Roamio or bolt, will any do, or are there specific models to avoid?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

This thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=528452 has a lot of information. I would start at the end and work back.


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## Scooter Scott (Jun 1, 2015)

hicksville said:


> I'm having them run rg6 to the attic in the wiring stage, and hopefully an internal antenna will work there.
> 
> Hoa will not allow external antenna. It's explicity written in. I'd rather modify my Roamio OTA than begin my relationship with them fighting over this. It is a house, in a community with rules.
> 
> If i get an old Roamio or bolt, will any do, or are there specific models to avoid?


HOA has no say on external antennas. Mine states the same thing...I've had my antenna for over a year now hanging off the side of my house. If they ever want to say something I will be happy to refer them to the Federal Law stating as such...


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## RoamioJeff (May 9, 2014)

HarperVision said:


> Not true. The Roamio OTA has the same tuners as the base model, QAM and ATSC. In fact I have them both working at the same time, contrary to popular belief.


How do you do that?


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

RoamioJeff said:


> How do you do that?


Run guided setup for antenna, then after its all done, plug in a cablecard and/or TA if your area uses them, and then it'll pop up a message asking if you want to also setup your TiVo with cable. Say yes and off you go! 

The big issue is that there's only one RF coax input, so signals can interfere without any "creative filtering" installed.


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## RoamioJeff (May 9, 2014)

bradleys said:


> That is what I would do... I would purchase a used, base Roamio without service and grab the cable card bracket out of it.
> 
> I bet you can find one for less than $50


I'm missing something. If you could get a used base Roamio, why would you not just activate service on the Roamio versus move the bracket to the Roamio OTA.

Maybe I'm missing some key detail.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

RoamioJeff said:


> I'm missing something. If you could get a used base Roamio, why would you not just activate service on the Roamio versus move the bracket to the Roamio OTA.
> 
> Maybe I'm missing some key detail.


Post # 1 indicates all-in for the OTA.


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## RoamioJeff (May 9, 2014)

HarperVision said:


> Run guided setup for antenna, then after its all done, plug in a cablecard and/or TA if your area uses them, and then it'll pop up a message asking if you want to also setup your TiVo with cable. Say yes and off you go!
> 
> The big issue is that there's only one RF coax input, so signals can interfere without any "creative filtering" installed.


Wow. Did not know the software allowed that. So the resulting channels in the guide will include OTA ATSC channels and cable channels?

And as far as interference, are the cable QAM signals and OTA ATSC signals on (any of) the same frequencies?

Now I want to experiment


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## RoamioJeff (May 9, 2014)

JoeKustra said:


> Post # 1 indicates all-in for the OTA.


Bingo. My brain knew that, but somehow didn't connect the dots


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## rjrsouthwest (Feb 19, 2016)

Scooter Scott said:


> HOA has no say on external antennas. Mine states the same thing...I've had my antenna for over a year now hanging off the side of my house. If they ever want to say something I will be happy to refer them to the Federal Law stating as such...


That is true you have the right to put up an antenna to receive OTA or even a small sat antenna, it is federal law no matter what they write into the home owners by laws that even goes for rental apartments and townhomes.

The last area I lived in they had written in a restriction barring people from parking on the street in front of their homes. That only can be done if the roads are privately owned and maintained but not if they are publc. The street in front of the homes was a public road and the home owners associtation tried to fine people that parked there and lien their property if they didnt pay but soon found out that they would not only loose that battle in court but could be sued for filing and illegal lien and gave up trying to fine people any longer.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

RoamioJeff said:


> Wow. Did not know the software allowed that. So the resulting channels in the guide will include OTA ATSC channels and cable channels?
> 
> And as far as interference, are the cable QAM signals and OTA ATSC signals on (any of) the same frequencies?
> 
> Now I want to experiment


I hate to rain on your parade, but having both OTA (8VSB) and cable (QAM256) isn't that simple. First, check the frequencies:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_television_frequencies#Broadcast_television
As you can see, the lower VHF channels have the same frequency. Things diverge after that. I have a basic Premiere that has both cable and OTA enabled (even though it has no antenna connected). Yes, the guide will have both OTA and cable channels, but remember that the guide expects a cable card. After a scan of cable, you will detect the clear QAM channels if you have any. But they will not be enabled. You need to go through the channel list and check them. I have two clear QAM channels and five analog test patterns. That's a Premiere, so analog still works.

It's not very productive, but it can be educational.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

RoamioJeff said:


> Wow. Did not know the software allowed that. So the resulting channels in the guide will include OTA ATSC channels and cable channels? And as far as interference, are the cable QAM signals and OTA ATSC signals on (any of) the same frequencies? Now I want to experiment


Yes it will show all the channels combined in the guide as long as they're checked in the channel list.



JoeKustra said:


> I hate to rain on your parade, but having both OTA (8VSB) and cable (QAM256) isn't that simple. First, check the frequencies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_television_frequencies#Broadcast_television As you can see, the lower VHF channels have the same frequency. Things diverge after that. I have a basic Premiere that has both cable and OTA enabled (even though it has no antenna connected). Yes, the guide will have both OTA and cable channels, but remember that the guide expects a cable card. After a scan of cable, you will detect the clear QAM channels if you have any. But they will not be enabled. You need to go through the channel list and check them. I have two clear QAM channels and five analog test patterns. That's a Premiere, so analog still works. It's not very productive, but it can be educational.


Yes, Joe is right that there's overlap and like I said you have to use some creative filtering. You need to know all the freqs, which ones you want and don't and then see if it can even be done. Luckily (I think) we still have analog cable here so the 2-70 something channels are analog repeats of all the higher drew digital ones so I could notch those out and shove the ATSC OTA channels in there, being careful not to block out the cable's OOB freq (~75MHz) that is used to communicate with the headend.

A lot of people use OTA to get a channel or two that they don't get via cable, so it may be easier to notch in those one or two channels via atsc.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

HarperVision said:


> Yes it will show all the channels combined in the guide as long as they're checked in the channel list.


A guide set to display "All" channels doesn't care what is checked. Sadly, that's the default. 

It will, as you say, only display channels TiVo thinks you should get, which doesn't include clear QAM. Those will need to be checked.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

JoeKustra said:


> A guide set to display "All" channels doesn't care what is checked. Sadly, that's the default.  It will, as you say, only display channels TiVo thinks you should get, which doesn't include clear QAM. Those will need to be checked.


I don't think he's using clear qam. I think a Cablecard is at play here, especially since you need one to plug in and kick in the cable setup screens (or a TA if they're in your area. The TA will remap clear QAM without a Cablecard too. I've done it with my Roamio OTA)


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## hicksville (Dec 4, 2015)

thanks, everyone. I understand I can do a 1 meter antenna outside in a noncommon area, no matter what the HOA says.

But I've already ordered a cable run to the attic, and would just prefer to use that.

As for converting the OTA to accept the cablecard, I'll look into it more, but it looks like it might need soldering, which I have never done, don't have the tools and would rather pay someone $25 to do it. 

plus, I'm a woman, and it's not really an interest of mine to learn it. not that there aren't handywomen. I'm just not one of them.

I just want to move my 6 mo old OTA to the new house and get TV 

I"ll be back with more questions I'm sure. Move in is not until Nov

Thx!


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

hicksville said:


> thanks, everyone. I understand I can do a 1 meter antenna outside in a noncommon area, no matter what the HOA says. But I've already ordered a cable run to the attic, and would just prefer to use that. As for converting the OTA to accept the cablecard, I'll look into it more, but it looks like it might need soldering, which I have never done, don't have the tools and would rather pay someone $25 to do it. plus, I'm a woman, and it's not really an interest of mine to learn it. not that there aren't handywomen. I'm just not one of them. I just want to move my 6 mo old OTA to the new house and get TV  I"ll be back with more questions I'm sure. Move in is not until Nov Thx!


Adding the cablecard bracket requires no soldering, just a multi pin plug in and a couple screws.


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## Red NSX (Jul 11, 2013)

When you move just try different antenna locations and styles. I have no doubt that it will work. A good antenna in the attic might need a drop amplifier to help with a weak signal. I have an outside antenna that is much smaller than a meter in size and it has a 60 mile range.


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

The signal strengths that were posted from her TVFool query were so strong that I suspect having an amplified indoor antenna was part of the problem. Signal strengths of that level would likely be harmed by an amplified antenna. Plus I'm not a huge fan of the Mohu Leaf amplified model, anyway. Amplification should only be used if feeding multiple sets.


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## ciscokid (Jan 14, 2003)

hicksville said:


> these are our channels. we can't put an antenna up outside due to HOA, but I guess we could in the attic... but our media center will be 2 floors below in the basement.
> 
> between Annapolis and Wash DC. Now this chart says we can use an antenna. the other channel list said no.


Federal law prohibits municipalities and HOA's from prohibiting "receive-only" radio and TV antennas. This includes satellite dishes.

Tell your HOA to go to hell and hire any decent lawyer who will GLADLY take the case!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Adding the cablecard bracket requires no soldering, just a multi pin plug in and a couple screws.


Couldn't all the necessary bits be pulled from a basic Roamio, for easy reinstallation into her Roamio OTA?


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

krkaufman said:


> Couldn't all the necessary bits be pulled from a basic Roamio, for easy reinstallation into her Roamio OTA?


Yes, very easily. In fact that's exactly what I'm going to be doing in about a week after I receive a lifetime OTA for my daughter at college.


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## hicksville (Dec 4, 2015)

Just want to post that I found a donor Roamio for $25 locally, and installed the cablecard bracket last night. In the meantime, we also upgraded our internet and added Fios TV here, last week. I don't like the interface on their STB.
So off to the verizon store today to pick up a Cablecard.

Hope it works. Been reading the posts about errors with fios since July.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

hicksville said:


> Just want to post that I found a donor Roamio for $25 locally, and installed the cablecard bracket last night. In the meantime, we also upgraded our internet and added Fios TV here, last week. I don't like the interface on their STB.
> So off to the verizon store today to pick up a Cablecard.
> 
> Hope it works. Been reading the posts about errors with fios since July.


Which Verizon STB did you get? VMS1100 (Quantum)?

I have Verizon FIOS with Bolt and works great. Be careful when you get the CableCard to have it paired properly. The usual phone CSR may activate it but not pair it. Make sure that premium channels and Fox channels (ex-main Fox network) work - that is how you tell it is paired. If you don't have a code to pair it online via the Verizon tool, I suggest using Verizon Direct forum to do so:

https://www.dslreports.com/forum/vzdirect

They will send you a chat link, and they know how to pair CableCard


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## hicksville (Dec 4, 2015)

thyname said:


> Which Verizon STB did you get? VMS1100 (Quantum)?
> 
> I have Verizon FIOS with Bolt and works great. Be careful when you get the CableCard to have it paired properly. The usual phone CSR may activate it but not pair it. Make sure that premium channels and Fox channels (ex-main Fox network) work - that is how you tell it is paired. If you don't have a code to pair it online via the Verizon tool, I suggest using Verizon Direct forum to do so:
> 
> ...


Lots of info here. Thanks!
They gave me a crappy 2011 model Cisco CHS435 and are charging me $30 a month. Which I now see should probably only be $20 bec the Quantum is $30. Internet boosted to 50/50 (i know, it was pathetic before) but we were paying $30 for internet only. The term expired and they wanted to charge us $75/mo so we switched over to a double play.
We only got the Essentials TV pkg, since we mainly watch broadcast and maybe a cable news channel or 3. So no premium channels here.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

hicksville said:


> Lots of info here. Thanks!
> They gave me a crappy 2011 model Cisco CHS435 and are charging me $30 a month. Which I now see should probably only be $20 bec the Quantum is $30. Internet boosted to 50/50 (i know, it was pathetic before) but we were paying $30 for internet only. The term expired and they wanted to charge us $75/mo so we switched over to a double play.
> We only got the Essentials TV pkg, since we mainly watch broadcast and maybe a cable news channel or 3. So no premium channels here.


To test the CableCard pairing in the absence of premium channels, go to any Fox cable channels (such as FX, FS1, Fox News, Fox Business, FXX). Not sure if you Custom Tv Essential had any of them. I have Custom Tv Sports & More with Global Sports Pack add on, HBO and Showtime.

$30/month sounds awfully a lot for that box. May be a mistake. Make sure you obtain a receipt when you return the box after successful CableCard pairing, as Verizon is known for issues with returns (they keep charging)


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

Hicksville: where are you located? Where I am (N. Virginia) there is a Verizon Experience store that I deal with in person for all equipment stuff. Better than online and phone call communications


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## hicksville (Dec 4, 2015)

thyname said:


> To test the CableCard pairing in the absence of premium channels, go to any Fox cable channels (such as FX, FS1, Fox News, Fox Business, FXX). Not sure if you Custom Tv Essential had any of them. I have Custom Tv Sports & More with Global Sports Pack add on, HBO and Showtime.
> 
> $30/month sounds awfully a lot for that box. May be a mistake. Make sure you obtain a receipt when you return the box after successful CableCard pairing, as Verizon is known for issues with returns (they keep charging)


I have fox biz, so I will check with that. Once I pair it, hopefully today, I can take the stb back over the weekend. Thankfully the verizon store is sort of where the new house is, so I can do several things in the area.
I was going to go to the store in Upper Marlboro, MD


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## hicksville (Dec 4, 2015)

thyname said:


> Hicksville: where are you located? Where I am (N. Virginia) there is a Verizon Experience store that I deal with in person for all equipment stuff. Better than online and phone call communications


was going to go to the store in Upper Marlboro, MD


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## hicksville (Dec 4, 2015)

Got the cable card at the fios store. Inserted it in the tivo, used my activation code online to activate and pair. I checked and have foxbiz news. Was so easy. Didn't have to call in.

Verizon stb going back next week! Thanks everyone for the help!

:up:


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

hicksville said:


> Got the cable card at the fios store. Inserted it in the tivo, used my activation code online to activate and pair. I checked and have foxbiz news. Was so easy. Didn't have to call in.
> 
> Verizon stb going back next week! Thanks everyone for the help!
> 
> :up:


Great! Enjoy!

You were lucky to have received the online activation code and avoid potentially clueless CSRs.

Thanks for posting an update here.


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## ciscokid (Jan 14, 2003)

hicksville said:


> these are our channels. we can't put an antenna up outside due to HOA, but I guess we could in the attic... but our media center will be 2 floors below in the basement.
> 
> between Annapolis and Wash DC. Now this chart says we can use an antenna. the other channel list said no.


Federal law prohibits any local municipality, including HOA's, from prohibiting receive-only antennas, including satellite dish antennas, and recieve only radio antennas.

Go tell you HOA that they are endanger of being sued. The go get yourself a lawyer who will gladly jump at this chance t make some easy money.


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