# Survivor Caramoan 5-12-13 Finale



## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

Yay!!!

So glad Cochran won!


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Woot Woot!


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Wooohoooo!!!

First time in awhile when someone I was actually rooting for won!!!

I thought his answers at the questioning was well done. He did that just right.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

Yeah, that was pretty obvious that he was going to win.

Looks like I was clearly wrong about Sherri's chances.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

So who technically gets 2nd and who gets 3rd?


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## crazywater (Mar 7, 2001)

So they only had the jury on this finale? Interesting. Maybe they didn't want to deal with Brandon Hantz on the show so they only invited the jury to the live show? And wow what long wait to find out who won. June 28, 2012 is when filming ended.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

crazywater said:


> So they only had the jury on this finale? Interesting. Maybe they didn't want to deal with Brandon Hantz on the show so they only invited the jury to the live show? And wow what long wait to find out who won. June 28, 2012 is when filming ended.


I was glad they only had the jury as even then only a few of them get any Q&A time, if any. Surprised Jeff didn't do the whole who would have voted for Eddie if it was Cochran, Sherri and Eddie.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

crazywater said:


> So they only had the jury on this finale? Interesting. Maybe they didn't want to deal with Brandon Hantz on the show so they only invited the jury to the live show? And wow what long wait to find out who won. June 28, 2012 is when filming ended.


I saw some of the other players down in the audience.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

No surprise there. A deserving winner too. But, it did annoy me a little that he kept getting so much credit for winning challenges, when in my view he only won one (the reward challenge for the advantage in the final comp). Two of his "wins" were with huge advantages, and the disgusting food challenge I discount completely. 

As much as I dislike Dawn, I found myself wanting to help her out in her presentation and defense. Owning the backstabbing was the easy part. She should have owned her hysteria as well--held it up as a handicap. Not that she would have gotten any votes, but she could have avoided humiliating herself by taking out her teeth. 

I don't like Sherri either, but I was happy she did what I always want people to do we they're being attacked by people whose vote they have no chance of getting--tell them to sit down and shut up. I was surprised at how nervous she was in her presentation. She completely froze. 

If the best take they could get of Malcolm on that soap was once in which his eyes were watering and his voice was trembling, I'd say he doesn't have much of a future in that career.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Oh and if you wanted to pick up a copy -

https://www.createspace.com/4269539


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Fool Me Twice said:


> No surprise there. A deserving winner too. But, it did annoy me a little that he kept getting so much credit for winning challenges, when in my view he only won one (the reward challenge for the advantage in the final comp). Two of his "wins" were with huge advantages, and the disgusting food challenge I discount completely.


I don't think that's fair. He won the challenges - not sure why you think they don't count. Anyone else would count them. The advantages were not just given, he earned them too.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Well, of course they count in the sense that he won them and benefits from them. I just don't think those wins are enough to earn him a reputation as a formidable challenge competitor.


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## Ozzie72 (Aug 9, 2008)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Well, of course they count in the sense that he won them and benefits from them. I just don't think those wins are enough to earn him a reputation as a formidable challenge competitor.


Cochran survived competitors, blindsides, nasty foods, and the sun. I say he's a formidable competitor. 

And...



Spoiler



"Blood vs. Water" -- tribe of family members vs. tribe of strangers?


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Ozzie72 said:


> Cochran survived competitors, blindsides, nasty foods, and the sun. I say he's a formidable competitor.


Yes. I'd put him in the top 10 percent of Survivor players. But, somewhere around average to slightly below average as a challenge competitor.


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## WO312 (Jan 24, 2003)

bryhamm said:


> So who technically gets 2nd and who gets 3rd?


Since they seated Dawn next to Cochran, I assume she got 2nd. Not sure how they figured that out though. Who got the least votes?? I can't remember if either of them got any votes.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Glad he won. He was my favorite in his first season, and I was split between him and Malcolm this time. 

I too am wondering how they decide 2nd place between Dawn and Sherie. Do they both get the same prize, or do they go back and look at how many votes you received in past tribals?

Thank god that Eddie was not allowed to blow $1M on a kennel+pub business. WTF.

Loved the way the whole jury giggled when Sherrie answered that first question about deserving to be in the finals.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

WO312 said:


> Since they seated Dawn next to Cochran, I assume she got 2nd. Not sure how they figured that out though. Who got the least votes?? I can't remember if either of them got any votes.


Well, they can't exactly sit them in the same seat, so one of them has to sit next to Cochran. So while it does tells us that Sherrie definitely didn't beat Dawn, it doesn't tell us whether or not they tied.


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## ciscokid (Jan 14, 2003)

Was it me or did the quality of the 10 PM show surpass the previous 2 hours, It seemed that the pic quality vastly improved at 10PM.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

LordKronos said:


> Thank god that Eddie was not allowed to blow $1M on a kennel+pub business. WTF.


Why? How he decides how he spends his money is his business and should not have any effect if he was in the final three as far as the vote is concerned.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

It was interesting to see Eddie go into EMT mode when Erik was getting the IV and such. It's a shame that had to happen.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

brianric said:


> Why? How he decides how he spends his money is his business and should not have any effect if he was in the final three as far as the vote is concerned.


Did I say it should have any effect on if he made it to the finals? No. I just said I'm glad he didn't. Sorry. Didn't realize that I wasn't allowed to be happy that someone didn't get the chance to squander a bunch of money on a (IMHO) stupid idea.


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## ciscokid (Jan 14, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> Did I say it should have any effect on if he made it to the finals? No. I just said I'm glad he didn't. Sorry. Didn't realize that I wasn't allowed to be happy that someone didn't get the chance to squander a bunch of money on a (IMHO) stupid idea.


Yeah! Like airplanes, the telephone, the "horseless carriage, the personal computer and things of that nature,,,,,,,,RIGHT?


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## WO312 (Jan 24, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> Well, they can't exactly sit them in the same seat, so one of them has to sit next to Cochran. So while it does tells us that Sherrie definitely didn't beat Dawn, it doesn't tell us whether or not they tied.


Hence, I ASSUMED she was second. In the past they have always seated them according to how they finished. But of course it could be a tie.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Ozzie72 said:


> Cochran survived competitors, blindsides, nasty foods, and the sun. I say he's a formidable competitor.
> 
> And...
> 
> ...





Spoiler



I would expect it's either pairs of family members on tribes (5 pairs on a 10-person tribe, for example), or pairs of family members, one family member on each tribe. Probably the latter, since they can later shake it up and family members could end up together on the same tribe.


Although I don't know why we're spoilerizing that... it was in the show, and it really didn't tell us anything. They didn't even say where they would be filming.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

All I know is if "Hantz" is a family name involved, I'm out!


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

It's a good thing I am home as my DVR decided not to record the final episode or the reunion. I missed the first 25 minutes, so I missed what happened to Erik. I would have liked to have heard a little about the other players as they have done in the past. Erik didn't even get a word in. I wish they would do a two hour reunion show. It always seems rushed.

I am glad Cochran won. I don't think Dawn or Sherri got any votes. I am looking forward to next season.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

This is what I've heard about next season and I know some people aren't going to be thrilled with it.



Spoiler



It will be returning contestants along with family members. I don't believe any Hantz's will be involved though as Russell ripped the concept on twitter awhile back.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Congrats to Cochran, I think he earned it.

Dalton's recap: http://tvrecaps.ew.com/recap/survivor-caramoan-fans-vs-favorites-finale/


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Neither Sherri nor Dawn got any votes (Jeff actually mentioned Dawn had zero votes) - it was a clean sweep for Cochran. Made total sense sitting Dawn next to Cochran considering their alliance throughout the show. I'm guessing Dawn and Sherri get equal shares of the combined second/third place money, but that's just a guess on my part and not based on anything tangible.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

JLucPicard said:


> Neither Sherri nor Dawn got any votes (Jeff actually mentioned Dawn had zero votes) - it was a clean sweep for Cochran. Made total sense sitting Dawn next to Cochran considering their alliance throughout the show. I'm guessing Dawn and Sherri get equal shares of the combined second/third place money, but that's just a guess on my part and not based on anything tangible.


That's what I understood. I really thought Dawn would get a couple of votes. When's the last time we had a clean sweep?


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

JLucPicard said:


> Neither Sherri nor Dawn got any votes (Jeff actually mentioned Dawn had zero votes) - it was a clean sweep for Cochran. Made total sense sitting Dawn next to Cochran considering their alliance throughout the show. I'm guessing Dawn and Sherri get equal shares of the combined second/third place money, but that's just a guess on my part and not based on anything tangible.


This is my suspicion, per the rules, Dawn & Sherri tied for 2nd, they should each get $75K (2nd & 3rd place money combined and divided between them.) I suspect the producers sat Dawn next to Cochran only because they knew that she would get more air time during the reunion. Did they even talk to Sherri during the reunion?

I kind of felt bad for the non-jury members that they didn't even get any stage time. I know that it cuts in to time that could interview more "interesting" tribe members, but did they really need to waste time on BR & Rudy? I would have like to have heard (and seen) more of Corrine instead.

I am surprised no one has brought up what Brenda did to Dawn at the Final TC. I am wavering a little bit (mainly because I like Brenda and wasn't a big fan of Dawn), but I thought it was disrespectful and a little spiteful. I understand Brenda felt betrayed, but this is Survivor. Dawn made a move that helped her get to the end. If you are expecting to make life long friends in the game, go on some other show. The best "friends" will stab you in the back to get to the end.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

ciscokid said:


> Yeah! Like airplanes, the telephone, the "horseless carriage, the personal computer and things of that nature,,,,,,,,RIGHT?


LOL. Totally on the same level as all of those ideas. I can almost hear the voiceover: "History has been filled with great inventions. First there was the horseless carriage. Then the personal computer. Now, someone built a kennel attached to a pub".


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I was amused that some of the jury just looked at Sherri and said "no questions for you"...and they said it in an amused or bored sort of voice.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

So, the challenge where Cochran won the advantage. Was that originally to have been a combination immunity/advantage challenge but changed when Erik was taken out?


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

loubob57 said:


> When's the last time we had a clean sweep?


Only other seasons were 14 (Fiji - Earl Cole) and 18 (Tocantins - JT)


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

heySkippy said:


> So, the challenge where Cochran won the advantage. Was that originally to have been a combination immunity/advantage challenge but changed when Erik was taken out?


My guess, it was originally supposed to be an immunity challenge that was no longer needed when Erik was taken out of the game, so they changed it to a reward challenge.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

betts4 said:


> I was amused that some of the jury just looked at Sherri and said "no questions for you"...and they said it in an amused or bored sort of voice.


Like I said, they all laughed at her first comment. And even though most of them didn't give her much credit, I thought even the little credit she did get (for switching tribes) wasn't really much deserved. It's not as if a whole lot happened there. As I recall (correct me if I'm wrong), it was something like Phillip going to her and saying "we're crushing you...join me and we'll drag you along, and you'll also get a stupid codename which I'll later rescind as if anyone actually cares". Basically, someone handed her the decision of "win a few thousand dollars, or a few tens of thousands dollars" and she simply made the same decision my 2 year old makes when choosing between the cup with 2 cheerios or the cup half full with cheerios.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

Once Erik was out, I knew as long as Cochran could get to the final 3, he would win handily. The only wildcard was Eddie, but I was pretty sure none of them would actually bring Eddie with them because of his closeness with Reynold, Malcolm, and Andrea.

I was also glad that they did not waste time on asking all the people voted out forever ago stupid meaningless questions (and was glad when a few years ago they stopped making sure to ask EVERYONE at least one), although I felt like they could have at least let them sit up there.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Speaking of secret code names - I loved that Phillip had one ready for Jeff. That was awesome.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

havent watched the entire reunion but while i understand brenda wanted the humiliation, it was a bit overboard for me. that being said, when jeff finally told brenda here's her chance to talk to dawn, and dawn literally took over the convo, that really put a nail in dawns coffin as far as being a decent person for me. it's like she has to be in the spotlight and she couldnt stand the though of brenda getting one up on her or something. maybe she was worried about another teeth request?

i felt bad for eddie, spatial relations isnt my suit either and he probably got further than i would in that puzzle challenge.



brianric said:


> Why? How he decides how he spends his money is his business and should not have any effect if he was in the final three as far as the vote is concerned.


i'm a realist and anything someone says at questioning would probably influence me. if he was opening up a shop that gives out free chips that i like i'd be more inclinded to vote for him


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## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

Hey, Sherri, I have some advice for you. Next time you want to try and talk nine people into giving you a million bucks, don't lead off by telling them how successful you are. Just my two cents.


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## lalouque (Feb 11, 2002)

TriBruin said:


> I am surprised no one has brought up what Brenda did to Dawn at the Final TC. I am wavering a little bit (mainly because I like Brenda and wasn't a big fan of Dawn), but I thought it was disrespectful and a little spiteful.


It wasn't a "little spiteful". It was TOTALLY spiteful. It really took my opinion of her down quite a bit. I wonder if she still would have come in second in the fan voting if they'd seen that performance before the vote.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

I don't remember a final where they were so brutal to the 2 non-winners. That was terrible what Brenda did to Dawn. Did Sherrie really think she did anything besides being the useless person everyone wants to bring to the final.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

DougF said:


> Hey, Sherri, I have some advice for you. Next time you want to try and talk nine people into giving you a million bucks, don't lead off by telling them how successful you are. Just my two cents.


Reminded me of the car dealer from one of the early seasons. There was lots of talk about whether he 'needed' the money.


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## LlamaLarry (Apr 30, 2003)

I'm still wondering how the heck Dawn even has a removable 4 tooth bridge and then came on Survivor with it - and still had it almost a year after the final tribal was filmed. 

It looks (to me) like she has something weird about her lower jaw, so maybe she is getting something done to it and will wait until that is complete before getting a permanent fix? Or are titanium implants not a thing for front teeth on the lower jaw?

In any event, I loved Brenda and hated Dawn (even before the Brenda blindside) but the whole show everyone your teeth thing was pretty rough and if anything Brenda owed her an apology for that.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

LlamaLarry said:


> I'm still wondering how the heck Dawn even has a removable 4 tooth bridge and then came on Survivor with it - and still had it almost a year after the final tribal was filmed.
> 
> It looks (to me) like she has something weird about her lower jaw, so maybe she is getting something done to it and will wait until that is complete before getting a permanent fix? Or are titanium implants not a thing for front teeth on the lower jaw?


I don't know whether or not they are a thing, but they certainly sound like something more expensive than a partial. Maybe she cannot afford to get implants.


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## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

If Phillip loses Survivor one more time he can join his hero on the short list of three-time losers. And for those Eddie and Reynold haters, go back and watch Boston Rob's first season. He was just as bad, if not worse, than them.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Sherri actually had some game early on, and even through to the middle of the game. Back when she had Shamu (or whatever his name was) for a pet she had good control of her tribe. Part of the reason Reynold and Eddie hated her so much was that she had them by the short and curlies and was quick to crack the whip if anyone challenged her position. Shamu's evac hurt her game, but didn't kill it.

After the merge she was able to put herself in a good position and likely would have manipulated Philip for her own ends. But, she was knocked out of power by the unprecedented triple immunity blindside of Philip and never really recovered. 

Cochran probably gets too much credit for his game this season, and Sherri not enough. Dawn, however, was utterly impotent from start to finish, and was only useful as a source of information to both Sherri and Cochran.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Satisfying ending to a meh season. 

I was surprised the reunion show was in California. Isn't the spring show usually in New York? Wife speculated that it's because Jeff's talk show is in LA.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

LlamaLarry said:


> I'm still wondering how the heck Dawn even has a removable 4 tooth bridge and then came on Survivor with it - and still had it almost a year after the final tribal was filmed.
> 
> It looks (to me) like she has something weird about her lower jaw, so maybe she is getting something done to it and will wait until that is complete before getting a permanent fix? Or are titanium implants not a thing for front teeth on the lower jaw?


Implants are ridiculously expensive. I would guess even people who can afford them, often don't. A partial usually isn't that difficult to live with.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> Satisfying ending to a meh season.
> 
> I was surprised the reunion show was in California. Isn't the spring show usually in New York? Wife speculated that it's because Jeff's talk show is in LA.


They also would have wanted the contestants in NYC so they could be on the Today show to receive the check and then on Letterman the next night, too.

They haven't been on Letterman for several years, I think. And given that Cochran was handed a check last night by Jeff, I'm assuming they're now doing away with the Today show appearances. (perhaps they did that a season or two ago, too; i forget).


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Seems like the non-jury contestants didn't find out until rehearsal time that they wouldn't be on the stage...

http://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/archives/survivor_caramoan/2013_May_12_pre-jury-not-on-stage


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

So was Brenda in the early stages of her pregnancy?


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

gossamer88 said:


> So was Brenda in the early stages of her pregnancy?


Jeff said she was due any day, and when she showed her bare belly, she looked it, too.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

I thought that I heard Jeff mention that they would be on the Today show today?


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

Jeeters said:


> They also would have wanted the contestants in NYC so they could be on the Today show to receive the check and then on Letterman the next night, too.
> 
> They haven't been on Letterman for several years, I think. And given that Cochran was handed a check last night by Jeff, I'm assuming they're now doing away with the Today show appearances. (perhaps they did that a season or two ago, too; i forget).





mcb08 said:


> I thought that I heard Jeff mention that they would be on the Today show today?


I don't think CBS would want them to be on an NBC morning show. 

I don't remember if he said they would be on _CBS This Morning_ or not, though.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Jeeters said:


> Jeff said she was due any day, and when she showed her bare belly, she looked it, too.


Oh I meant during the show, on the island. My math tells me she was.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

gossamer88 said:


> Oh I meant during the show, on the island. My math tells me she was.


My math gives me first week in August 2012 if she is due any day, and this season filmed May 21 - June 28 according to the Wikipedia.


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## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

laria said:


> I don't think CBS would want them to be on an NBC morning show.
> 
> I don't remember if he said they would be on _CBS This Morning_ or not, though.


I didn't hear that. I haven't watched Survivor much in the last few years and haven't watched the reunion show in a long time, but I did find it odd that they presented the check to Cochran last night instead of saying he would get it on "The Early Show" today.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

lalouque said:


> It wasn't a "little spiteful". It was TOTALLY spiteful. It really took my opinion of her down quite a bit. I wonder if she still would have come in second in the fan voting if they'd seen that performance before the vote.


Totally agree. Really brought my opinion of her down.

It was like the bully making the victim, lick their shoes.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

DougF said:


> Hey, Sherri, I have some advice for you. Next time you want to try and talk nine people into giving you a million bucks, don't lead off by telling them how successful you are. Just my two cents.


How is she a "stay at home mom" if she runs multiple companies and has over 80 employees?


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

LifeIsABeach said:


> If Phillip loses Survivor one more time he can join his hero on the short list of three-time losers. And for those Eddie and Reynold haters, go back and watch Boston Rob's first season. He was just as bad, if not worse, than them.


You know Brob did win, right?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

pmyers said:


> You know Brob did win, right?


Twice. (Yeah, he didn't win the _vote _on All-Stars, but he still won. )


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

pmyers said:


> You know Brob did win, right?


On his 4th try.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

pmyers said:


> How is she a "stay at home mom" if she runs multiple companies and has over 80 employees?


She owns a few food franchises. I bet her 80 "employees" are mostly teenagers, working part-time.

She probably is able to mostly manage the stores from her home. And so I'd guess "work from home" and "stay at home mom" is "potato / potahto" to her.

http://survivorsucks.yuku.com/topic/102227/Survivor-Caramoan-The-Interview-Thread?page=#.UZEcqLXvtR0


> *Gordon Holmes:* It says here that you're a franchisee? What businesses do you own?
> *Sherri Biethman:* I own six different franchises.
> Holmes: Such as?
> *Biethman:* I own a Wetzel's Pretzels.
> ...


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

pmyers said:


> How is she a "stay at home mom" if she runs multiple companies and has over 80 employees?


That is the point.

She told everyone throughout the game that she was a SAHM, when in reality, she is a successful business woman. Why she would do that during the last Tribal is beyond me. The jury doesn't like to give money to rich people. Not that she had a shot anyway, but really...

And I, too was very surprised at how vindictive Brenda was. If I had been Dawn, I would have just said no. She wasn't getting her vote anyway, so what was the point of the humiliation? That was just mean.

Oh, and YAY! Cochran won!!! :up:


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## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

Fool Me Twice said:


> I don't like Sherri either, but I was happy she did what I always want people to do we they're being attacked by people whose vote they have no chance of getting--tell them to sit down and shut up. I was surprised at how nervous she was in her presentation. She completely froze.


I thought what Sherri said to Erik was completely rude.  Also, what was with her and her big reveal that she's a successful business woman? It seemed to me she was just sticking it in their noses....I know none of you guys are going to vote for me anyway so here look at me neener neener, look at how great I am, you guys suck and I don't need your stinkin' money anyway.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

The only thing I can think of is that in her mind, she "outwitted" everybody by hiding her real identity and thinks she pulled one over on everybody. The problem is that nobody cares and she didn't make any strategic moves...not to mention that this thinking hurt her case (let's give the successful businesswoman a million).


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

My guess is that she was trying to counter the criticism that she was merely a pawn or a floater, not an active agent in the game. She wanted to reform her character in the eyes of the jury by informing them that she is not a coat tail rider by nature, but a woman of action. She completely choked during her presentation though (likely due to her sense of the jury's hostility toward her), so whatever point she was trying to make was lost.


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## InterMurph (May 22, 2003)

loubob57 said:


> That's what I understood. I really thought Dawn would get a couple of votes. When's the last time we had a clean sweep?


When Malcolm voted, he said something like, "this isn't how I expected to vote".

That tells me that Dawn was going to get at least a couple of votes until Cochran totally aced the final Tribal Council exam, and Dawn bombed out. Not as bad a Sherri did, but still, these are the worst final performances since Lil wore her scouting uniform and berated everyone.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

sherri telling him to sit down was way over the top. even a an ally i would have had a hard time voting for her after that. if i hated what he was saying i would have at least given the trite answer that yes, i know where you are coming from, i understand, or some BS like that. 

much less damaging! 

thank goodness they are done doing the pick a number between 1 and 100 thing! i hated things like that. 

i almost wish this game had a final challenge to be the winner. heck even in big brother you need to answer questions about the game and stuff. there shoudl be one ultimate big 'winners' challenge and that determine the winner


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

InterMurph said:


> When Malcolm voted, he said something like, "this isn't how I expected to vote".
> 
> That tells me that Dawn was going to get at least a couple of votes until Cochran totally aced the final Tribal Council exam, and Dawn bombed out.


Yeah, I think Cochoran aced that TC like nobody I've heard. I came out of there thinking, "how could you vote for anyone else..."


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

I think they went into tribal knowing who they were voting for. No one was voting for Sherrie, half either didn't question her or mocked her. I'm betting Brenda poisened the jury at Ponderosa towards Dawn. Cochran just didn't have to screw things up badly.


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

Jeeters said:


> Seems like the non-jury contestants didn't find out until rehearsal time that they wouldn't be on the stage...
> 
> http://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/archives/survivor_caramoan/2013_May_12_pre-jury-not-on-stage


Although I like to hear a little something from each player, there were so many unmemorable players for me this year that I didn't really care. I do like Corinne, though.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

kettledrum said:


> I thought what Sherri said to Erik was completely rude...


I'm torn with that. I think she knew she wasn't getting his vote so why let him degrade/lecture you? It probably isn't very smart (for the rest of the jury) but I did enjoy it.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I know it didn't matter, but.....

I was a little surprised and dissapointed that Cochran took Dawn. I think the smarter play is to vote her out because she would be a guaranteed vote FOR him at the final. I don't know that he could have said the same about Eddie.


----------



## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

InterMurph said:


> When Malcolm voted, he said something like, "this isn't how I expected to vote".
> 
> That tells me that Dawn was going to get at least a couple of votes until Cochran totally aced the final Tribal Council exam, and Dawn bombed out. Not as bad a Sherri did, but still, these are the worst final performances since Lil wore her scouting uniform and berated everyone.


It would be interesting if they could poll the jury before the questioning. I think that most jury members have their minds made up, regardless of what answers are given.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

btw...why did we waste 5 minutes of valuable screen time with Rudy? lol


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

mcb08 said:


> It would be interesting if they could poll the jury before the questioning. *I think that most jury members have their minds made up, regardless of what answers are given.*


Agreed.


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

pmyers said:


> btw...why did we waste 5 minutes of valuable screen time with Rudy? lol


He seemed disappointed that he didn't get to have an interactive chat with Hatch "I didn't even get to call him a queer". Not what I would have said on national TV, but hey I'm not an 85 year old Navy Seal.


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

pmyers said:


> btw...why did we waste 5 minutes of valuable screen time with Rudy? lol


Who knew Rudy came up with "No ****"?


----------



## KyleLC (Feb 6, 2002)

JFriday said:


> Who knew Rudy came up with "No ****"?


Haha I thought about that too.


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

pmyers said:


> I know it didn't matter, but.....
> 
> I was a little surprised and dissapointed that Cochran took Dawn. I think the smarter play is to vote her out because she would be a guaranteed vote FOR him at the final. I don't know that he could have said the same about Eddie.


He won unanamously how was that a smarter play, you don't think Eddie would have gotten some votes from his bros?


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Azlen said:


> This is what I've heard about next season and I know some people aren't going to be thrilled with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd like to see Brenda and her Dad.



newsposter said:


> i felt bad for eddie, spatial relations isnt my suit either and he probably got further than i would in that puzzle challenge.


Me too. Some years it seems like all the challenges end with a puzzle, which is really unfair to the spatially challenged like myself. 



DougF said:


> Hey, Sherri, I have some advice for you. Next time you want to try and talk nine people into giving you a million bucks, don't lead off by telling them how successful you are. Just my two cents.


 The funny part is she starts by telling them how she's this big sophisticated businesswoman, and then she starts to stutter and say, Oh I'm so nervous.

I like seeing Rudy--he hadn't aged much. They could have spent less time on him, though.

I think Cochran is the one who should be on TV. Maybe a friends or Seinfeld type show with him basically playing himself. (Malcolm could be one of the friends too.)


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## Lee 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

heySkippy said:


> On his 4th try.


To be fair, he handed Amber her win.


----------



## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

Lee 2.0 said:


> To be fair, he handed Amber her win.


He definitely orchestrated that one.


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## MauriAnne (Sep 21, 2002)

Another odd use of time on the finale: the nervous blonde girl being asked about Malcolm.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Yay! Not a big surprise, but still.. Yay. Glad to see Cochran fulfill a life's dream, even if it means he won't be pursuing his other life's dream of being a Lawyer. What a waste of a Harvard education. I'd have loved to see the look on his parent's face when he made that revelation. 

Hantz was apparently banned from the reunion because Phillip was too scared of him and his Uncle's threats. Russell has been all over Twitter mocking him and making veiled threats. What a classy family. I hope we never see any Hantz on TV again.



> *Brandon Hantz banned from Survivor reunion as Russell Hantz threatens Phillip Sheppard*
> Survivor Caramoan »
> by Andy Dehnart / May 10, 2013, 7:51 AM
> comment »
> ...


----------



## hfcsyrup (Dec 12, 2012)

MauriAnne said:


> Another odd use of time on the finale: the nervous blonde girl being asked about Malcolm.


seriously. probst seems out of touch with the viewers. no time to give 3 of the final 5 a word, but i will go to some random girl, who should prob be pre-screened dontchathink, and ask her about fabio. probst: you are sinking this ship too fast, you are out of touch!

feel terrible for dawn being bullied into removing teeth. i know she is only thinking, anything for my kids education, which i get, but brenda lost all respect. it's a game, you helped her out in a tough time, nice of you. even bringing it up i felt bad, and then bullying her to remove them, i could not watch. and maybe, if this was off the cuff, maybe right after being blindsided. ok, i can see the frustration that would bring right then. but you have a couple days to cool off and think about what you are going to say and you still demand that? unconscionable. 
same for laughing at sherri. such an immature jury. erik giving sherri a hard time, pot meet kettle. no awareness.

erik being removed: why arent producers thinking hey, maybe we should go to a final 2 now? instead we get a lame reward(?), maybe 'advantage' as i dont remember there being a reward, so you dont have to untie a couple of knots. not thinking on their feet. and then no final endurance challenge? seriously, is probst in charge of everything? are there other producers?

disappointed the pre-jury couldnt get up there. i get hantz shouldnt be up there, but i seem to recall a past reunion with a survivor missing.

otherwise, very happy for the cochran. though i wish he'd stop confessing to having all this social anxiety and awkwardness, when he doesnt have any stage fright whatsoever and has no problem expressing his thoughts clearly and with plenty of wit.

just bought season 1 dvd as that is the only one i havent seen. so i have some summer survivor to get me by, of course they spoil season 1 for me right now (i know hatch wins but that was about all).


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

TriBruin said:


> This is my suspicion, per the rules, Dawn & Sherri tied for 2nd, they should each get $75K (2nd & 3rd place money combined and divided between them.)


Where are you getting that 3rd place pays $50k? IIRC, way back in the early seasons when that kind of information got leaked, I thought 3rd place got more like $85k. But I agree with your premise, that Dawn and Sherri should each get half of the sum of what 2nd and 3rd place usually get.



JFriday said:


> I think they went into tribal knowing who they were voting for. No one was voting for Sherrie, half either didn't question her or mocked her. I'm betting Brenda poisened the jury at Ponderosa towards Dawn. Cochran just didn't have to screw things up badly.


That's the case every year. I think it's rare for the answers at Final TC to actually make a difference in the final voting. I'll bet that 90+% of the time, the votes are cast the same way they would have been whether they got a chance to talk to the finalists or not.



MauriAnne said:


> Another odd use of time on the finale: the nervous blonde girl being asked about Malcolm.


I would have been very pissed if I were one of the castaways that didn't make the jury and I didn't get any screen time because of that ridiculous girl that had no business being on the show.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

hefe said:


> Twice. (Yeah, he didn't win the _vote_on All-Stars, but he still won. )





Lee 2.0 said:


> To be fair, he handed Amber her win.





loubob57 said:


> He definitely orchestrated that one.


All of this. You can even make an argument that BR won more than any other contestant. Not only did he win once and essentially hand Amber her win, he then married her and got that money too .

$2 million plus a wife, not to mention everything else that came afterwards.


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## Roadblock (Apr 5, 2006)

pmyers said:


> You know Brob did win, right?


Yes, he won on one of the weakest seasons of Survivor ever made when placed with doormats for tribe members.



DevdogAZ said:


> Where are you getting that 3rd place pays $50k? IIRC, way back in the early seasons when that kind of information got leaked, I thought 3rd place got more like $85k. But I agree with your premise, that Dawn and Sherri should each get half of the sum of what 2nd and 3rd place usually get.


Yes, third gets $85k, so they each get $92,500.



madscientist said:


> All of this. You can even make an argument that BR won more than any other contestant. Not only did he win once and essentially hand Amber her win, he then married her and got that money too .
> 
> $2 million plus a wife, not to mention everything else that came afterwards.


He should never have been on All-Stars in the first place, as he was a terrible player in Marquesas. I'll bet a lot of people would be great players if you give them four tries.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Roadblock said:


> He should never have been on All-Stars in the first place, as he was a terrible player in Marquesas. I'll bet a lot of people would be great players if you give them four tries.


*Shrug* whatever.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

I wasn't sold on Cochran last week but was really hoping he won this. He was great in his answers and simply deserved the sweep. Plus the challenges sold me on him. I thought it was funny how proud Eddie was when he got one piece of the puzzle.

If Dawn can make up a big story about her teeth being so important that she'd leave the show if she lost them than she can certainly be called out by Brenda when she says they weren't that important. As was said earlier, all she had to do was say no to Brenda as that vote wasn't going her way no matter what she did.

Also glad Sherri told Erik to STFU. He was a babbling idiot. No need to give him a response as it was clear he wasn't voting for her.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

They had the final interviews on InsideTV today with all the people from the finale... Erik was pretty pissed in his, mostly about how he never got to explain what happened to him to get him pulled out of the game (Probst did not ask him any questions). 

Apparently he had a leg wound that was infected, which if you've watched the Ponderosa videos, we saw that Reynold also had a leg wound that required him to get IV antibiotics once he was at Ponderosa. The editing on the show made it seem like he was just dehydrated or something. One of his brother's noticed the infection during the family bbq the day before and asked him about it, and he said that they'd been talking to medical during the bbq, and they told him to just make sure to drink a lot of water and eat and stuff, but he said he just kinda started going downhill really fast at tribal and was totally out of it the whole time. He didn't even know Brenda was the one that got voted off until he woke up in the clinic later.

He was also kinda mad that they made it look like he went and sat down when Sherri told him to. He told her he still had a question for Cochran so he wasn't going to, then he asked Cochran a stupid question just so he didn't have to sit down.


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

I wander if he injured his leg while attempting to climb that ginormous tree that there was no way in he'll he was ever going to get a coconut from. That was so stupid.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

No, he said it was an old injury that he thought was healed, but all the dirt all over him was hiding the infection that was all over his leg.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

Interviews... apparently Sherri was so boring she didn't even get an interview 

John Cochran explains how he won 'Survivor: Caramoan', weighs in on Toothgate, and announces his brand new job...for EW!

'Survivor: Caramoan': Dawn responds to Brenda's shocking Tribal Council moment and talks about their 'awkward' reunion show interaction

Medically evacuated Erik slams the 'disrespectful...ridiculous...insane...farce' of a 'Survivor' reunion show


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

According to this site:

http://www.today.com/id/10298817/ns/today-entertainment/t/what-do-second-place-finishers-win/

The assumed prizes are:

Winner, $1,000,000
Runner-up, $100,000
3rd, $85,000
4th, $70,000
5th, $55,000
6th, $45,000
7th, $35,000
8th, $27,500
9th, $20,000
10th, $15,000
11th, $10,000
12th, $7,500
13th, $5,500
14th, $4,500
15th, $3,500
16th, $2,500


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

pmyers said:


> btw...why did we waste 5 minutes of valuable screen time with Rudy? lol


maybe they were trying to make some kind of political statement lol..but dang he looked good for 85

i hadnt read about the tie except in this thread but shouldnt they have a fire challenge or something to break it?


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

Very interesting interviews. Editing definitely makes a difference in what impression we get as opposed to what actually happened.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

I said in other threads this season that I never want to see Dawn on this show again. Add Brenda to that list. There's always bitterness in the juiry but she was a class A b..ch.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

It doesn't seem like there really was a runner up, just 2 third places.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

Those interviews are good. I can see where the non jury members were upset about not being on the stage, especially when they only found out right before. On the other hand I always hated wasting time on people no one cared about and most were barely remembered anyway.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

hfcsyrup said:


> seriously. probst seems out of touch with the viewers. no time to give 3 of the final 5 a word, but i will go to some random girl, who should prob be pre-screened dontchathink, and ask her about fabio. probst: you are sinking this ship too fast, you are out of touch!...


I think you are giving Probst too much credit/blame.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

newsposter said:


> i hadnt read about the tie except in this thread but shouldnt they have a fire challenge or something to break it?


Why do they need to break a tie. It wasn't for the win, so it doesn't really matter. They've never broken a tie for second at any other tribal council when the vote is 4-2-2.


betts4 said:


> It doesn't seem like there really was a runner up, just 2 third places.


Not that this is definitive, but the Wikipedia page for this season lists them both as "Runner Up." Usually, those pages list "Runner Up" and "2nd Runner Up."


VegasVic said:


> Those interviews are good. I can see where the non jury members were upset about not being on the stage, especially when they only found out right before. On the other hand *I always hated wasting time on people no one cared about* and most were barely remembered anyway.


For the first 15-20 seasons, Jeff always made a point to try and at least ask one question of everyone on stage. It always pissed me off that some boring players were taking time away from the things viewers really wanted to know about. Then over the last few seasons, he's stopped worrying about including everyone and some people simple get skipped, but at least they're all sitting up there and we can see them, see their reactions to things, and Jeff can direct questions at them if appropriate. While I didn't care to hear from most of them, I would have liked them to at least be on the stage.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Why do they need to break a tie. It wasn't for the win, so it doesn't really matter.


per the chart above theres a 15K difference in prize

if 15k isnt material to you, give it to me.


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## sburnside1 (Jan 28, 2009)

JFriday said:


> Did Sherrie really think she did anything besides being the useless person everyone wants to bring to the final.


I thought this at first, then remembered that Sandra won TWO seasons being this person.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

newsposter said:


> per the chart above theres a 15K difference in prize
> 
> if 15k isnt material to you, give it to me.


If i was offered a chance to try to win 2nd to avoid splitting the 2nd/3rd place prizes I think I'd take the guaranteed 7.5K split.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

The main difference imo is that Sandra kept flipping back and forth between groups and was able to always stay of the radar that way. In Big Brother, they call it floppers. It's difficult to pull off the flopping move imo.

Sherri didn't do that. She was allowed into the power group via Phillip and then simply stayed there.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

Fortunately none of the jury said "At least I played with integrity". That's a final TC staple. Glad Cochran won what was a boring season. "Favorites" no one cared about, including one who had been voted off first (now twice) lol. Give me all new players each season and if you must, do an occassional all-star season.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

VegasVic said:


> Fortunately none of the jury said "At least I played with integrity". That's a final TC staple. Glad Cochran won what was a boring season. "Favorites" no one cared about, including one who had been voted off first (now twice) lol. Give me all new players each season and if you must, do an occassional all-star season.


While I'll agree that there were a few favorites that nobody cared about, I don't think it was a boring season at all.


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

The first half was hard to watch at times with Shamar and Lil' Hantz, but after the merge it was a quite enjoyable season.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

bryhamm said:


> The main difference imo is that Sandra kept flipping back and forth between groups and was able to always stay of the radar that way. In Big Brother, they call it *floppers*. It's difficult to pull off the flopping move imo.
> 
> Sherri didn't do that. She was allowed into the power group via Phillip and then simply stayed there.


Floaters.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

newsposter said:


> per the chart above theres a 15K difference in prize
> 
> if 15k isnt material to you, give it to me.


That's not what I was saying at all. Read the interview with Dawn. She confirms that they just added the $100k for 2nd place and the $85k for 3rd place together ($185k) and then split it evenly between she and Sherri ($92.5k each).


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

it has to be so demoralizing to dawn to have to split the prize like that with the person no one even wanted to talk to.


----------



## nlsinger (Feb 8, 2006)

Dawn was totally going to quit if her retainer hadn't been found. And she was a dumbass to pretend otherwise. She should have acknowledged what Brenda did as enormously kind but at the end of the day she was playing the game for a million dollars and Brenda was a threat.


----------



## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

DevdogAZ said:


> That's not what I was saying at all. Read the interview with Dawn. She confirms that they just added the $100k for 2nd place and the $85k for 3rd place together ($185k) and then split it evenly between she and Sherri ($92.5k each).


Right. But Newsposter is saying that if they did choose to break the tie, someone would have received an extra $15K.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

nyny523 said:


> Floaters.


Thank you. It felt wrong when I typed it, but for some reason I couldn't remember the correct word.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

mcb08 said:


> Right. But Newsposter is saying that if they did choose to break the tie, someone would have received an extra $15K.


Why break the tie? It's like golf imo. You only need to break the tie for the overall winner. Everyone else remains tied where they finished.


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## Roadblock (Apr 5, 2006)

pmyers said:


> I think you are giving Probst too much credit/blame.


He's an EP, sounds about right to me.



sburnside1 said:


> I thought this at first, then remembered that Sandra won TWO seasons being this person.


Except Sandra was able to get to the end with weaker players.



nlsinger said:


> Dawn was totally going to quit if her retainer hadn't been found. And she was a dumbass to pretend otherwise. She should have acknowledged what Brenda did as enormously kind but at the end of the day she was playing the game for a million dollars and Brenda was a threat.


True, but Brenda damaged her reputation by humiliating Dawn at the end. I liked her a lot this season up to that point.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

bryhamm said:


> Thank you. It felt wrong when I typed it, but for some reason I couldn't remember the correct word.


Glad to help.

Happens to me all the time!


----------



## nlsinger (Feb 8, 2006)

Roadblock said:


> True, but Brenda damaged her reputation by humiliating Dawn at the end. I liked her a lot this season up to that point.


I get that, but I didn't mind a bit calling her on her bullsh *t. Because if Dawn truly would have stayed in the game without her front teeth, we all would have seen it anyway. Sure, Brenda could have been the better person, but to me she was calling Dawn's bluff.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mcb08 said:


> Right. But Newsposter is saying that if they did choose to break the tie, someone would have received an extra $15K.


But since the game is to determine the $1 million winner, why bother taking time to figure out the 2nd/3rd place winners. That's kind of irrelevant to the viewers, and the show is made for the viewers.

By the way, this happened previously in Survivor: Fiji (S14), when Earl got all nine jury votes and the other two finalists, Dreamz and Cassandra, got zero.



bryhamm said:


> Why break the tie? It's like golf imo. You only need to break the tie for the overall winner. Everyone else remains tied where they finished.


This.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Roadblock said:


> True, but Brenda damaged her reputation by humiliating Dawn at the end. I liked her a lot this season up to that point.


Yeah, I liked her better before that too. I wonder if the fan voting had all been done after the last episode how different it would have been.

I voted for Cochran in the fan voting because I didn't think he would win. I thought he was popular enough to be a shoo in for that. But since he won, I was happy to see Malcolm get it. I'm still surprised Cochran didn't get more fan votes.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

stellie93 said:


> I'm still surprised Cochran didn't get more fan votes.


I could be wrong, but in my mind these fan voters are much more along the line of _American Idol_ voters (cute guy, long hair - cute girl) than true _Survivor_ fans who may have a much different list of criteria on why they vote the way they do.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

mcb08 said:


> Right. But Newsposter is saying that if they did choose to break the tie, someone would have received an extra $15K.


someone would have received an extra $7.5K.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

if it doesnt matter why is the prize structured to have more money for 2nd than 3rd. they can easily make all prizes the same amount, thus proving to 'everyone' that only 1st place matters


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

newsposter said:


> if it doesnt matter why is the prize structured to have more money for 2nd than 3rd. they can easily make all prizes the same amount, thus proving to 'everyone' that only 1st place matters


If you're going to get say 75K for finishing 2nd or last then you might get people scrammbling to get voted off when things got tough.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

i think they do that well enough now on their own


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## Lee 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

bryhamm said:


> The main difference imo is that Sandra kept flipping back and forth between groups and was able to always stay of the radar that way. In Big Brother, they call it floppers. It's difficult to pull off the flopping move imo.
> 
> Sherri didn't do that. She was allowed into the power group via Phillip and then simply stayed there.


Completely different kind of player. And bear in mind that Sandra won two seasons of Survivor without ever getting a single vote cast against her.

My husband and I regularly debate whether Sandra or BRob is the better player.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

Lee 2.0 said:


> Completely different kind of player. And bear in mind that Sandra won two seasons of Survivor without ever getting a single vote cast against her.
> 
> My husband and I regularly debate whether Sandra or BRob is the better player.


True.

And that would be a fun debate. It's kind of like poker to some degree. Often in a single hand or even a single session/tournament, the best "player" does not win (for whatever reason). But the better players will have a better chance to win, but it doesn't mean anything. Too many other things can occur that would prevent that from happening.

* injury
* HII
* bitter jury
* poor tribal performance, thus down numbers at the merge
* and many more

I think Rob is a better player than Sandra, but she has clearly "won" more.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I like the poker vs Survivor analogy. The best player doesn't always win.


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## sburnside1 (Jan 28, 2009)

Roadblock said:


> Except Sandra was able to get to the end with weaker players.


Id agree on Pearl Island. On Heroes Vs Villains she was up against Parvati and Russell. I wouldn't consider either of them weak, just not all that likable. They lost because they gloated about outsmarting all the others constantly. Sandra was totally a floater that season.

A floater is someone that just sides with whoever has power and stays off the radar. They don't necessarily have to switch sides if power doesn't shift. They just don't make decisions and let everyone else get blood on their hands.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

JFriday said:


> If you're going to get say 75K for finishing 2nd or last then you might get people scrammbling to get voted off when things got tough.





newsposter said:


> i think they do that well enough now on their own


People try to get voted out early on their own? What evidence have you seen to support this?


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> People try to get voted out early on their own? What evidence have you seen to support this?


over the years people have said my heart isnt in the game, i dont wanna be here anymore, and i think no less than 2 outright quit.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

newsposter said:


> over the years people have said my heart isnt in the game, i dont wanna be here anymore, and i think no less than 2 outright quit.


OK, I'll grant that a couple people have quit or not had the stamina to play hard. But I wouldn't say it's an epidemic. For the most part, players are trying to get farther in the game.


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> People try to get voted out early on their own? What evidence have you seen to support this?


His scenario was "if everyone got the same prize (other than the winner) people would dump out at the first opportunity."


----------



## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

pmyers said:


> I like the poker vs Survivor analogy. The best player doesn't always win.


I too think that is an excellent analogy, and one I hadn't previously considered. Kudos to bryhamm!


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

zordude said:


> His scenario was "if everyone got the same prize (other than the winner) people would dump out at the first opportunity."


Here's the way the conversation went:


> newsposter said:
> 
> 
> > if it doesnt matter why is the prize structured to have more money for 2nd than 3rd. they can easily make all prizes the same amount, thus proving to 'everyone' that only 1st place matters
> ...


newsposter is saying that if they're not going to break the tie between 2nd and 3rd, then there's no point in differentiating between any of the positions, and all the non-winners should get the same amount. JFriday then says that may induce people to stop trying and drop out early. newsposter says that's already happening.

And my response is that while there are a few isolated cases of people quitting or not appearing to try very hard, it's not an epidemic. And I agree with JFriday: it would likely get much worse if a player doesn't believe they can win and there is no financial incentive to stay in the game longer.


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

so is 1 million not incentive enough to stay even if all the rest were the same? incrementally i'm not sure that the current chart above really is worth the extra few weeks in there. (or days rather)

i think 2nd place needs to be 250 or 500K


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I bet that a lot of these people are playing just to prove how well they can. I'd imagine you could fill an interesting cast out of people even if there wasn't prize money at the end. People just want the challenge to see how far they can go. 

In fact, I've even thought that somebody should create a "fantasy camp" where regular people can sign up to play. I'd bet they'd book up, and they'd have to pay for the privilege!


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

newsposter said:


> i think 2nd place needs to be 250 or 500K


There are usually others who deserve a hefty chunk of cash, but they lots of times don't come in 2nd. I guess Dawn maybe deserved it, but definitely not Sherrie.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

newsposter said:


> so is 1 million not incentive enough to stay even if all the rest were the same? incrementally i'm not sure that the current chart above really is worth the extra few weeks in there. (or days rather)
> 
> i think 2nd place needs to be 250 or 500K


I think many players realize that the chances of them getting to the finals and getting the votes they need from the jury is remote. So they're simply staying in as long as possible because for most people $50k or more for 6 weeks of "work" is a pretty good payday. As JFriday said, if they got the $50k whether they made it one day or 39, then some people wouldn't see any incentive to stay, and the early part of the game would be boring with people not trying or quitting or experiencing phantom injuries.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

DancnDude said:


> I bet that a lot of these people are playing just to prove how well they can. I'd imagine you could fill an interesting cast out of people even if there wasn't prize money at the end. People just want the challenge to see how far they can go.


Wasn't this pretty much the basis of the BBC series _Castaway_?

There are any number of ways to make Survivor "more interesting". Of course, most of them aren't any good. Here are a couple of examples:

1. Have the three finalists secretly choose who they think would be the winner if there was a fan vote. Whoever the fan vote winner selected is the actual winner. To prevent everyone from voting for themselves, add: if you vote for yourself and you lose, the winner gets your prize money.

2. Anybody familiar with the British game show _The Enemy Within_? This would be played similar to _The Mole_, except that the mole is an active player who isn't trying to sabotage the game. At the end, all of the contestants vote on who they think is the mole (the mole votes as well; obviously, the mole votes for someone else), and if they're right, the mole's money gets divided among the other players, but if they're wrong, the mole gets all of the money (or, the mole's actual share - including the million if he wins - is divided among the contestants who correctly picked him as the mole, but the mole gets the money of the contestants who picked someone else.)


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

newsposter said:


> so is 1 million not incentive enough to stay even if all the rest were the same? incrementally i'm not sure that the current chart above really is worth the extra few weeks in there. (or days rather)
> 
> i think 2nd place needs to be 250 or 500K


I was dissapointed when they didn't make the All-star season prize, larger!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

That Don Guy said:


> Wasn't this pretty much the basis of the BBC series _Castaway_?
> 
> There are any number of ways to make Survivor "more interesting". Of course, most of them aren't any good. Here are a couple of examples:
> 
> 1. Have the three finalists secretly choose who they think would be the winner if there was a fan vote. Whoever the fan vote winner selected is the actual winner. To prevent everyone from voting for themselves, add: if you vote for yourself and you lose, the winner gets your prize money.


Any suggestion that includes fans voting for the winner should be immediately thrown out. The winner should be decided by people who are there and see what's going on all day, every day. The viewers only see a minuscule portion of what happens during the game, and the editors specifically choose to show the things that are most interesting or create the most drama, but that's not necessarily a good representation of how each player played and what happened during the game.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Any suggestion that includes fans voting for the winner should be immediately thrown out. The winner should be decided by people who are there and see what's going on all day, every day. The viewers only see a minuscule portion of what happens during the game, and the editors specifically choose to show the things that are most interesting or create the most drama, but that's not necessarily a good representation of how each player played and what happened during the game.


We learned that the hard way in the first season of Big Brother. The annoying people got voted out and the show got boring.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> The winner should be decided by people who are there and see what's going on all day, every day.


Those voted out who make the jury early see less and are influenced by those who make the jury at the tail end of the season.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

brianric said:


> Those voted out who make the jury early see less and are influenced by those who make the jury at the tail end of the season.


They see less, but they were there for 20+ days before being voted out, and they are present for the full-length version of every tribal council. They are in an infinitely better position to choose a winner than are the viewers.


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