# The Official TiVo-Centric Cord-Cutting Thread



## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

So, I've never started an "official" thread before so I hope this takes! I did quite a bit of research before cutting the cord and there's a lot to consider. I still enjoy reading about other people's setups because I always learn something new.

I hope that maybe those of us who cut the cord in a TiVo-centric setup can share our current setups, some of the hiccups we encountered, and possible solutions. There is so much good stuff scattered through all these threads, it'd be nice to have a "one-stop shop" for all things related to ditching traditional pay TV.

*Current round-up of cord-cutting threads that I found in my searching:*
I'm all in. Adieu, DirecTV... _My thread..._
Thinking of cutting the cord
TiVo Premiere may be the way to go _Another of my threads..._
Seriously thinking about ditching my TV service entirely
Just ordered a Premiere (cord cutter)
Cord cutter needs help
Cutting the cord...
Cutting the cord... Or satellite...
Anyone tried cutting out cable entirely?

*My contribution as a cord-cutting newbie...*

*The Current Setup*

*Source: *
Attic mounted EZHD Antenna from Denny's with Winegard 8700 Signal amplifier

*Video Hardware:*

Living Room - TiVo Premiere + Roku XD 
Master Bedroom - TiVo Premiere + Roku XD

*What I'm still working on:*
_Basement theater_: Currently there is only an Apple TV (1st gen - 160gb) and a DVD player. It's based around a projector so there is no TV tuner. I have coax to the area, but with DirecTV I would always just move one of our HD boxes down there if we were going to watch a "live event." Due to the initial and ongoing costs associated with an extra DTV box, we just never watched much TV in this room. I'd like to start. Right now, I'm thinking of a third Premiere, but I'm also reading about the possibility of the "Preview" IP-based transcoding box that may or may not come out this summer. I may hold out for that and move the bedroom TiVo to the theater (because it has a tuner) and use the mythical transcoder box in the bedroom because the TV already has a tuner.

_Basement guest room:_ This room currently has a 26" LCD TV that was purchased in late-2005 (they were expensive back then!). As such, it does not have a digital tuner. It used to have an SD box from DirecTV. So when I pulled the box and hooked up the coax, imagine my surprise when it can't tune digital channels.

Both of these scenarios make me wish I'd snagged a couple of the converter boxes when they were giving them away in 2009...

*Miscellany:*
In order to access some of our digital movies ripped from DVDs (that we own, thank you very much...) I am running a Plex Media Server on an iMac so I can stream to the Roku boxes as well as serve my Apple TV. I am also subscribed to Netflix and in the 6-month trial of Hulu Plus.

*Next up:*
I'd like to take a look at how I could make PlayOn work in my all-Mac home. It just seems that the expense of Parallels, a Windows license, and the cost of the service would be pretty significant.

*Overall impressions:*
So far, I'm pleased. Though we officially canceled DTV yesterday, we'd been "test-driving" the TiVo/Roku/OTA setup for a couple weeks. There are definitely things we miss (like Storm Chasers and a couple other Discovery and HGTV shows), but I don't miss paying DirecTV $100/month for a handful of shows we only watch when there's nothing else on the TiVo.

Another thing is that initially, it does seem like you're nickel-and-dining your way back up to pay TV with $8 here for Netflix, an $80 MoCA adapter there to connect your TiVo... But when you really sit down and do the math, it would take a LOT of nickel-and-diming over a calendar year to be anywhere close to where you were with cable or satellite.


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## ntarvin (Jan 29, 2011)

OK - I'll jump in from the PC perspective...

We're in the midst of cord-cutting. For cash flow reasons, we cannot fully cut the cord from Dish until June or so (early termination costs...). So, (temporarily!) we have a Dish box sitting next to the Tivo while we try various and setups...

My current setup is...

1. a Tivo Premiere and Clearstream antenna for OTA, (got this as a package along with Tivo service for $9.95 per month back in October). 

2. Roku (not version 2 - the one before that) - (subs for Netflix, Hulu+, Amazon)

3. PlayOn and PlayLater - another package I got on sale last month for half-price. PlayOn shows up on Tivo's My Shows (which was a surprise!), and also works with Roku.

4. Stream, Baby, Stream for my (owned) movies/tv etc. - shows up on Tivo as a home app.

Everything works well together. There is a lot of duplication in PlayOn, Roku and Tivo - ie: Netflix, Hulu +, Amazon, and podcasts, but the GUI's differ and some are better than others.

I'm constantly playing with other things, too - for example, the Logitech Revue (hated it!), Miro (kind of limited), and a computer with a customized Windows Media Center (with Hulu, PlayOn, BBC iPlayer, Media Browser, Kylo, Zinc, live TV, internet TV and more...) I keep this computer in the cabinet under the tv for when I want to mess with it, or when I need an extra tuner or two for recording.

One other thing - unlike many people, I don't use wireless to network everything - I'm using powerline boxes...

Yes, it's all very geeky and other than the Tivo and Roku, my wife doesn't want to mess with any of the rest of it. (Gee, I wonder why????)

The other day, my son brought over his old Tivo HD for me to try. Oddly enough, the tv tuner in the HD is much, much better than the tuner in the Premiere. The HD will show consistent strength at 90+ on all OTA channels (plus 2 additional channels I cannot even get on the Premiere) while the Premiere gets a max of 70-80 and the lowest is 50 or so. (I think I'm going to buy the HD from my son...)

Despite the duplication of programs, this is probably the setup we're going to use (minus Dish, of course!) when the final cord-cutting happens this summer. 

Neil
================


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## synch22 (Dec 30, 2003)

I cut the cord but down to limited basic with Comcast for $15 a month. That way cable cards stay in the tivos, get hd channels and there is plenty to watch. I have thought about the antenna route but there is an increase in charge on the internet. I also have Netflix streaming which isnt half bad.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Play-On and Play-Later are a package that I keep hearing about with regard to tivo. I looked at the web site but am still at a loss for what it actually will let me DO on the tivo that I cannot do now.

What do you folks actually use these for on Tivo?

We cut the cord from Comcast several years ago. Went with a large OTA antenna and DSL internet. Bill went from 160 to 40 a month. Never looked back. I rent BR from Blockbuster and dump the movies to the tivo and occaisionally use Amazon or YouTube but not often. Would like to get Amazon Prime on the Tivo as we already have the account.


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## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

ntarvin said:


> PlayOn shows up on Tivo's My Shows (which was a surprise!)


oh yea? how?


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## ntarvin (Jan 29, 2011)

Aero 1 said:


> oh yea? how?


I have PlayOn running on a Windows 7 Pro computer that is networked with everything else using Network Magic.

It shows up on the bottom of the My Shows list along with NetFlix, Hulu, etc.

I'm not sure how or why - perhaps because I have "home apps" activated on the Tivo and the PlayOn server is recognized as such.

It also recognizes another server - I haven't looked at this one very thoroughly yet, but it looks like it's either Win7 itself or maybe Miro. It lists all the media directories on Win7, along with the Miro directories (and _will_ transfer and play media from the Miro directories through the Tivo)

When I had Twonky on the computer, it also recognized that... (but Twonky caused some problems with Win7, so I removed it).

Haven't tried TVersity since I got the Tivo, but it wouldn't surprised me if it saw that, too...

But, then isn't the Tivo _supposed_ to recognize DLNA servers - or have I got that wrong?????


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## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

ntarvin said:


> I have PlayOn running on a Windows 7 Pro computer that is networked with everything else using Network Magic.
> 
> It shows up on the bottom of the My Shows list along with NetFlix, Hulu, etc.
> 
> ...


TiVo does not recognize dlna servers. Double check if you are mistaken about playon. Disable the playon service and check the TiVo again. so you an browse regular Hulu or espn3 or tv.com via playon on TiVo? That's impossible. If you are doing it, you need to figure out how and post it!!!


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## ntarvin (Jan 29, 2011)

Aero 1 said:


> TiVo does not recognize dlna servers. Double check if you are mistaken about playon. Disable the playon service and check the TiVo again. so you an browse regular Hulu or espn3 or tv.com via playon on TiVo? That's impossible. If you are doing it, you need to figure out how and post it!!!


No, I am NOT mistaken. The impossible isn't always impossible!

Well, I disabled PlayOn on the computer and it went away from the Tivo listings.

I started it up again and went in to check what it was doing - PlayOn comes up again in My Shows at the very bottom of the list. It shows on the list as as "Internet TV - PlayOn" I am using the "Premium" (ie: paid) version of PlayOn.

When I open PlayOn, all the channels that I have added to PlayOn show up in the listings - I don't know about ESPN3 (I don't do sports), but Hulu (regular) comes up with User Q, sort by name, sort by date, etc. Individual shows come up with episodes and clips. TV.com comes up - shows by name or network, etc. MyMedia (beta) comes up with my personal movies, etc. Msnbc comes up with individual shows, etc. PlayLater comes up with the shows I have recorded using PlayLater.

When I go into any of the shows in any of the channels individually, it comes up with the "transfer to Tivo" dialog.

Also, the other server that shows up is listed as "Neils Videos on Neil-Win7" so it must be reading the computer itself. Within that server are all my downloaded YouTube videos, Miro, Twonky, etc. from the Users->Neil->My Videos directory.

The only thing I can think of is that I specifically had to turn on the activate home apps selection in settings to get Stream, Baby, Stream to work. Maybe that had something to do with it??

No DLNA, huh? Maybe UPNP???????

I have one other thing that I'll check later (after my wife is done with her shows tonight) and that is the 2nd computer I have that I sometimes use with Windows Media Center. It also has PlayOn on it - I'll see if Tivo also reads that from the network... that will be interesting...


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## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

ntarvin said:


> No, I am NOT mistaken. The impossible isn't always impossible!
> 
> Well, I disabled PlayOn on the computer and it went away from the Tivo listings.
> 
> ...


well, your new job is to figure this out  you seem to be the only person in the world that has this working.

edit: i found this: http://code.google.com/p/pytivo-jkasyan-fork/

are you using this pytivo fork?


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## ntarvin (Jan 29, 2011)

(I was in the middle of posting this when you posted yours...)

Another thing - when I installed Stream, Baby, Stream - I believe I also installed a version of pyTivo that was in the form of an executable (.exe) file.

After a little research, this is the solution to the mystery -

(from the page - which is listed under the pyTivo Discussion Forum The subject is: "pyTivo for jython/windows installer")

_*The main purpose is so that people with MediaMall's Playon software can get playon content (Hulu/Netflix/etc) on their tivos without configuring anything, but i've modified the plugins to behave properly under jython, so this is a fully functional pyTivo installer. My installer will automatically create a windows service, and open up win7/vista firewall permissions.*_

Not sure if this address will show up...

http://pytivo.sourceforge.net/forum/pytivo-for-jython-windows-installer-t1610.html

So, there you go - guess it works!


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## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

ntarvin said:


> (I was in the middle of posting this when you posted yours...)
> 
> Another thing - when I installed Stream, Baby, Stream - I believe I also installed a version of pyTivo that was in the form of an executable (.exe) file.
> 
> ...


that was it!! i was using wmcbrine pytivo fork, and by you mentioning it, i would of never thought someone put out a fork with playon support. this just made it much easier and cooler! thanks again.


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## ntarvin (Jan 29, 2011)

Glad that's figured out - I thought I was going crazy and hallucinating, or just had one hell of a blast of pure dumb luck! LOL!

I have a Premier, but tonight I'm going to plugin my son's series 3 HD and see if it also works with that one. (His HD gets much better OTA than mine.... and I'd rather use it!)

Maybe this pyTivo fork will help others with PlayOn... between the services that are already on Tivo, and the addition of PlayOn/PlayLater, it's getting to be a really good substitute for cable/satellite...


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## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

ntarvin said:


> Glad that's figured out - I thought I was going crazy and hallucinating, or just had one hell of a blast of pure dumb luck! LOL!
> 
> I have a Premier, but tonight I'm going to plugin my son's series 3 HD and see if it also works with that one. (His HD gets much better OTA than mine.... and I'd rather use it!)
> 
> Maybe this pyTivo fork will help others with PlayOn... between the services that are already on Tivo, and the addition of PlayOn/PlayLater, it's getting to be a really good substitute for cable/satellite...


Just looked and it also works on the HD. This is great! Now I can skip the Hulu commercials with this!!


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## ntarvin (Jan 29, 2011)

Excellent! 

Now if my wife will just get off the tv so I can switch out the Tivo's, I'll be a happy puppy! LOL!


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Next step accomplished. I received my Premiere and put it into service last night. (Going to expand the drive when I receive my new one today.)

I've never had a non-DirecTv TiVo before. Seems like it is really slow to set up. Is that normal? I turned on the remote season pass manager online, but some of the scheduling isn't working, it shows nothing in my ToDo list.


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## 241705 (Mar 9, 2010)

ntarvin said:


> I have a Premier, but tonight I'm going to plugin my son's series 3 HD and see if it also works with that one. (His HD gets much better OTA than mine.... and I'd rather use it!)


I saw you mention this earlier in the thread; if you haven't already done so, compare the actual reception instead of the signal-strength meter. My Premiere shows a lower level on signal-strength compared to my TivoHD, but I get all the same channels, reliably, on both.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

hefe said:


> Next step accomplished. I received my Premiere and put it into service last night. (Going to expand the drive when I receive my new one today.)
> 
> I've never had a non-DirecTv TiVo before. Seems like it is really slow to set up. Is that normal? I turned on the remote season pass manager online, but some of the scheduling isn't working, it shows nothing in my ToDo list.


On a brand new box, it wouldn't surprise me if initial setup seems slow. The software that is shipped with the Premiere only has one core of the processor enabled. IIRC the dual core is enabled on version 14.x.
Current software is at 20.2.
If you just put it in service last night, give it a couple of days. There is a lot of info the Tivo has to process on an initial setup. You probably still need to get the latest version of the software (unless you forced the calls home to speed up the process).
It will also take a day or two for the info on your Premiere to show up on TiVo's website.


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

I can vouch for the fact that setup times are inconsistent. My first box took a few hours. Box 2 took three days. 

I don't really get why that is when I can buy an iPhone and walk out of the Verizon store talking on it, or buy a laptop and have it up and running in a couple hours, but TiVo takes three days...


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## ntarvin (Jan 29, 2011)

blackngold75 said:


> I saw you mention this earlier in the thread; if you haven't already done so, compare the actual reception instead of the signal-strength meter. My Premiere shows a lower level on signal-strength compared to my TivoHD, but I get all the same channels, reliably, on both.


Hi -

I *have* compared them, and while I get decent reception on all channels with the Premiere, the HD is less prone to artifacts, etc. Also, I mentioned that I got 2 extra channels on the HD than on the Premiere - AntennaWeb shows these 2 were in a north direction - the rest were southeast. I could not get them to come in at all on any other tuner, and had given up even trying. They come in perfectly clear on the HD with no effort at all.

BTW, I'm using both UHF and VHF antennas with a combiner - we have a bit of strange situation with antennas. We're on top of a hill, and about 30 miles from the source. (3 of the major network channels here - NBC, ABC, and PBS are VHF, the rest UHF. It was easier to get a second antenna.)

After trying literally hundreds of different heights and positions, from the roof to the tops of fences, our BEST reception comes when the VHF is no higher than 6 feet, and the UHF is practically on the ground, pointed slightly up. We tested it in all kinds of places and this was the absolute best for us. I'm sure it has something to do with the trees and buildings around us and between us and the source, but this is what works, and once we got this setup - we don't touch it. (If it ain't broke, don't fix it!)


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## ntarvin (Jan 29, 2011)

Danielladug said:


> I need help to DOWNLOAD free XRumer 7.0.12 ELITE!!


SPAM!!!! Just like the other 308,000 comments exactly like it in Google.... (sigh)


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

ntarvin said:


> SPAM!!!! Just like the other 308,000 comments exactly like it in Google.... (sigh)


When you see spam posts, look to the left and find the little triangle with the exclamation point inside it, click on that, and just type the word spam in the text box with which you are presented and then click report and one of the mods will presently make that post disappear as soon as they satisfy themselves that you are correct in calling it spam. And at this point I'm sure they can sort the spam from the legit at 50 paces.


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## 241705 (Mar 9, 2010)

ntarvin said:


> Hi -
> ...Also, I mentioned that I got 2 extra channels on the HD than on the Premiere...


Sorry - missed that in the original post.

Best wishes on the cord-cutting. I had done this previously, but since I was already paying for high-speed internet, I found my overall bill was lower when I bundled in the TV service. Now I use a combination of cable and OTA.


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

blackngold75 said:


> I found my overall bill was lower when I bundled in the TV service. Now I use a combination of cable and OTA.


For me, it's not "cheaper," but it's within $20 for the basic, basic package. Plus $10 for the, "Oh, you wanted it in _HD_!" fee. (I'm guessing that might be why you're using the cable/OTA combo.)

*Question for the Cord-Cutters:* What internet speed package are you using with your cord-cutting setups? I'm currently on the Comcast 25Mbps (with "bursts" to 30Mbps... ) and, at $65/month plus tax I'm wondering if it's overkill. I should mention that I have also been using Ooma since December as part of my ongoing quest to stop paying money to people for things I can do for free or cheap.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

ScottE22 said:


> For me, it's not "cheaper," but it's within $20 for the basic, basic package. Plus $10 for the, "Oh, you wanted it in _HD_!" fee. (I'm guessing that might be why you're using the cable/OTA combo.)
> 
> *Question for the Cord-Cutters:* What internet speed package are you using with your cord-cutting setups? I'm currently on the Comcast 25Mbps (with "bursts" to 30Mbps... ) and, at $65/month plus tax I'm wondering if it's overkill. I should mention that I have also been using Ooma since December as part of my ongoing quest to stop paying money to people for things I can do for free or cheap.


I live in a "cable free" area so all I have access too is DSL, it claims to be "up to" 12Mbps but the best I ever get is 5-6Mbps, which is fast enough for standard Hulu (480p) with no issues. I don't have access to any HD streams so I can not speak to what is needed for them and don't ever do multiple streams either has I live alone.

Good Luck,


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## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

ScottE22 said:


> For me, it's not "cheaper," but it's within $20 for the basic, basic package. Plus $10 for the, "Oh, you wanted it in _HD_!" fee. (I'm guessing that might be why you're using the cable/OTA combo.)
> 
> *Question for the Cord-Cutters:* What internet speed package are you using with your cord-cutting setups? I'm currently on the Comcast 25Mbps (with "bursts" to 30Mbps... ) and, at $65/month plus tax I'm wondering if it's overkill. I should mention that I have also been using Ooma since December as part of my ongoing quest to stop paying money to people for things I can do for free or cheap.


i have the fios 15 up and 5 down package and that is plenty. fios is so rock solid that i am able to stream multiple netflix streams while my server is doing other stuff and offline backups and watching a slingbox.

you might have a problem with a lower tier cable internet package since its so oversubscribed and at peak times speeds decrease.


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## RockinRay (Aug 25, 2004)

We are in the midst of cutting off DirecTV. But, we are still under contract with them so I have not cut off yet, but rather brought things down to one receiver and negotiated a really nice discount on their "Entertainment" package. Our contract is for another year.

May bit the bullet in 6 or so months and take the hit to be done with them. Our TiVo's are working very well for us and we purchase our "cable" shows from iTunes via the Apple TV. This works very well.

I just hate to pay a termination fee! Dang...


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

The termination fee is $20/month so you need to determine the point at which the remaining months outweigh the ETF for you.

And they said we'd never use Algebra 2 in the real world...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

ScottE22 said:


> I can vouch for the fact that setup times are inconsistent. My first box took a few hours. Box 2 took three days.
> 
> I don't really get why that is when I can buy an iPhone and walk out of the Verizon store talking on it, or buy a laptop and have it up and running in a couple hours, but TiVo takes three days...


Yeah, it seems strange that it should take so long, but finally the online season pass manager and To Do lists are working. Very cool features that I didn't have with the DirecTv TiVos. 

Expanding the hard drive was ridiculously easy. The disk with the tools made it so simple...so now I've got 317 hours of HD to fill!


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

hefe said:


> Expanding the hard drive was ridiculously easy. The disk with the tools made it so simple...so now I've got 317 hours of HD to fill!


Which vendor did you use for the drive and tools? I really want to expand one of mine in the near future...


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

IMHO, "cutting the cord" implies severing all ties with any type of paid TV service provider or other source of "live" video that you have to pay for. To me, this also includes eliminating the Tivo service and your ISP. To truly cut the cord you should be getting TV via an antenna using something other than a Tivo box or other DVR that requires a service fee. If you stream movies and TV shows via the internet then you have to pay your ISP for the connection. 

Obviously, this takes it to the absolute extreme and is not practical for most people given that the internet is such an integral part of our everyday life. For today's lifestyle, cutting the cord really means dumping your TV provider and getting TV via OTA antenna or streaming from NetFlix, Hulu, YouTube, or other online sources. Movies can still be rented from numerous non-streaming sources like NetFlix or RedBox. 

I still believe that using a Tivo and claiming you've cut the cord is cheating since you still have to pay a monthly fee or buy lifetime service. A real cord cutter uses a PC with an integral tuner. If you're still connected to cable or satellite and use a Tivo then you've only unravelled the cord a little.


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

mr.unnatural said:


> To me, this also includes eliminating the Tivo service and your ISP.


Good heavens, man. Why live like savages?



This is a very interesting discussion since it does mean different things to different people. To me I see it as more general. I am not paying for TV content via the traditional pay TV model. I have 90% of the enjoyment at less than 10% of the price I was paying.

I see your point, though. In fact, my original plan was to go OTA with a Mac Mini HTPC. But instead I bought two TiVos with Lifetime so I've arrived at a similar (perhaps simpler) end within the same budget.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

ScottE22 said:


> Which vendor did you use for the drive and tools? I really want to expand one of mine in the near future...


I did mine by buying (ebay) a drive already formatted - probably an extra $30 over the cost of the drive. 2tb for $169 delivered.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

ScottE22 said:


> Which vendor did you use for the drive and tools? I really want to expand one of mine in the near future...


I got this one: WD20EARX. It's a 2TB drive.

http://www.google.com/products/cata...Lh0QGSqpDzBg&sqi=2&ved=0CG0Q8wIwAA#scoring=tp

The Premiere comes with a 320GB Caviar Green. So I got another one in the Western Digital Green series.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

something else to consider, I sold the original drive on Amazon for $45. Took a week and it was gone. I have no idea what the market is on that drive but there were several vendors selling it for $90 on up, which is strange as that's more than the unit costs.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

mr.unnatural said:


> I still believe that using a Tivo and claiming you've cut the cord is cheating since you still have to pay a monthly fee or buy lifetime service. A real cord cutter uses a PC with an integral tuner. If you're still connected to cable or satellite and use a Tivo then you've only unravelled the cord a little.


The "cord" as I view it is the traditional carrier model we've dealt with since cable began. I understand where you're coming from, but I find the description adequate considering the difference in cost.

So the cable cord is cut, and the satellite "cord" is cut...yes, we still have other cords, but they're less expensive and trivial to cut and reconnect when we want.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Jebberwocky! said:


> something else to consider, I sold the original drive on Amazon for $45. Took a week and it was gone. I have no idea what the market is on that drive but there were several vendors selling it for $90 on up, which is strange as that's more than the unit costs.


I thought about that, but I think I'm going to hang on to my original drive just as a backup in case the other one ever craps out.


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## ntarvin (Jan 29, 2011)

mr.unnatural said:


> IMHO, "cutting the cord" implies severing all ties with any type of paid TV service provider or other source of "live" video that you have to pay for. To me, this also includes eliminating the Tivo service and your ISP. To truly cut the cord you should be getting TV via an antenna using something other than a Tivo box or other DVR that requires a service fee. If you stream movies and TV shows via the internet then you have to pay your ISP for the connection.
> 
> Obviously, this takes it to the absolute extreme and is not practical for most people given that the internet is such an integral part of our everyday life. For today's lifestyle, cutting the cord really means dumping your TV provider and getting TV via OTA antenna or streaming from NetFlix, Hulu, YouTube, or other online sources. Movies can still be rented from numerous non-streaming sources like NetFlix or RedBox.
> 
> I still believe that using a Tivo and claiming you've cut the cord is cheating since you still have to pay a monthly fee or buy lifetime service. A real cord cutter uses a PC with an integral tuner. If you're still connected to cable or satellite and use a Tivo then you've only unravelled the cord a little.


Good grief, man! Are there no shades of gray in your world at all???? 

I'm just the opposite - cord-cutting to me is anything that can possibly be done by the individual to eliminate the forced/deliberate tiering and outrageous rates and contracts by the corporate pay-tv machine. I'll even give credit to those who - because of the rate structure (ie: the increase in internet rates to force people to stay on the service ) are forced to continue with a minimal pay-tv model (even though they would dearly love to cut all ties).

This is a multicolored continuum, not just black and white. We can include anyone as a cord-cutter who is making an effort to free themselves of someone else's decision-making on their behalf as to what they watch on tv and when they watch it.

Jeez, I sound like "power to the people" from the hippie days. Actually, I *was * a hippie in the late 60's, so righteous indignation comes easily for me! (And, for cryin' out loud, don't take me too seriously - no offense intended!)


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

ScottE22 said:


> Which vendor did you use for the drive and tools? I really want to expand one of mine in the near future...


By the way...on the tools, here's the thread:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968

It's easy as:

1. Download the disk image and burn it to a CD
2. Connect the original TiVo drive and the new one to a computer's sata ports. Disconnect the system's regular drives.
3. Boot the system with the tools CD in, and it will boot to a menu and recognize the 2 drives.
4. Select copy-choose the source and destination disks. Original to new. Wait a couple hours for it to copy.
5. Select Expand on the new disk, takes just a short time.
6. Select Supersize on the new disk, also a short time, maxes out the space for recordings.
7. Put the new drive in the TiVo and you're done!


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

hefe said:


> By the way...on the tools, here's the thread:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968
> 
> It's easy as:
> ...


I've seen that thread. I run Macs only so I was wondering if, given the expense for cables/enclosures/etc and the time involved, I'd be better off with one of the pre-TiVo-fied ones on eBay. I'm totally comfortable doing the stuff, but I'm wondering if it's worth it.

I need to find a friend with a Windows box I can borrow for a few hours with some open SATA ports...


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

mr.unnatural said:


> I still believe that using a Tivo and claiming you've cut the cord is cheating since you still have to pay a monthly fee or buy lifetime service. A real cord cutter uses a PC with an integral tuner. If you're still connected to cable or satellite and use a Tivo then you've only unravelled the cord a little.


Google "cutting the cord" and you'll see it generally refers to disconnecting the cable/satellite service. But, tomato - tomato.

Thing in Tivo's favor, if you buy a TiVo with lifetime, you really aren't paying more than a PC with 2 or more tuners, and the WAF is much higher with the TiVo. But, a PC does a lot of things a TiVo won't so there is that.

I haven't cut any cords yet because I still want my sports and my wife still wants her movies the easy way. However, just for fun, I put up an antenna and installed a HDHomeRun in the network and a single tuner USB tuner. So, I have 3 OTA tuners in addition to the 4 tuners in our HD and Premiere.

I know Comcast claims they don't compress broadcast signals but I'm a skeptic. My wife and I both believe the OTA picture and sound is better than what we're getting through Comcast.


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## RockinRay (Aug 25, 2004)

ScottE22 said:


> For me, it's not "cheaper," but it's within $20 for the basic, basic package. Plus $10 for the, "Oh, you wanted it in _HD_!" fee. (I'm guessing that might be why you're using the cable/OTA combo.)
> 
> *Question for the Cord-Cutters:* What internet speed package are you using with your cord-cutting setups? I'm currently on the Comcast 25Mbps (with "bursts" to 30Mbps... ) and, at $65/month plus tax I'm wondering if it's overkill. I should mention that I have also been using Ooma since December as part of my ongoing quest to stop paying money to people for things I can do for free or cheap.


We are with Charter and we have a 30 down / 4 up package. I just called them not long ago and threatened to leave them for DSL. They locked me in at $44.95 per month total for 24 months.

We also use Ooma and have been very pleased with their service.

You might consider calling and seeing if they can put you on a "special" deal. Ask for retentions...


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## RockinRay (Aug 25, 2004)

ScottE22 said:


> The termination fee is $20/month so you need to determine the point at which the remaining months outweigh the ETF for you.
> 
> And they said we'd never use Algebra 2 in the real world...


Yep, as always, live by the math.

They did give me a nice statement credit too. This credit is worth well over 1/2 the term fee. I wonder if I called..... LOL

Not a chance.


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

RockinRay said:


> They did give me a nice statement credit too. This credit is worth well over 1/2 the term fee. I wonder if I called..... LOL


I was at the point of a $40 ETF for two months which was far easier than riding out the last two months at $100/month. Plus, since I canceled days after my month started I, too, received a credit back that covered almost double the ETF.



rockinray said:


> We also use Ooma and have been very pleased with their service.


Overall, we have been pleased. Very few dropped calls and excellent call quality. I even decided to pay the $120/year (with the free wireless adapter thrown in) because, for me, $10/month for their blacklist feature is worth it in and of itself. And, surprisingly, the wireless works quite well and has not made a noticeable difference in call quality or consistency.



janry said:


> Thing is in Tivo's favor, it you buy a TiVo with lifetime, you really aren't paying more than a PC with 2 or more tuners, and the WAF is much higher with the TiVo. But, a PC does a lot of things a TiVo won't so there is that.


This is exactly where I made my decision. I could probably get the HTPC to do a few more things than a TiVo, but, really, I just want to watch TV and not hassle with it. And I dreaded the call from my wife telling me our TV "crashed" while I was at work...

I'm still very interested in what a Mac Mini could do in my media room, but that's a project for another day.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

ScottE22 said:


> This is exactly where I made my decision. I could probably get the HTPC to do a few more things than a TiVo, but, really, I just want to watch TV and not hassle with it. And I dreaded the call from my wife telling me our TV "crashed" while I was at work...


Yes, that's a big part of it for me. The family needs to be able to use it with little hassle. I can put up with a lot more than they can. Besides, we've been using a TiVo for almost 12 years now (?!) and it's just second nature for TV watching.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

janry said:


> Google "cutting the cord" and you'll see it generally refers to disconnecting the cable/satellite service. But, tomato - tomato.
> 
> Thing is in Tivo's favor, it you buy a TiVo with lifetime, you really aren't paying more than a PC with 2 or more tuners, and the WAF is much higher with the TiVo. But, a PC does a lot of things a TiVo won't so there is that.


I've actually got my wife weaned off the Tivo and using a Dell Zino HD small form factor HTPC that uses a SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime networked cablecard tuner. Back when I was using media extenders with my WMC PC I was having issues that caused a lot of interruptions in TV viewing throughout the household. Needless to say the WMC extender experience was not well received so I had to reattach the cord and get a couple of cable boxes to calm the masses. The HTPC issue turned out to be a bad motherboard and had nothing to do with WMC or Windows 7.

Now that the HTPC is stable and running smoothly I picked up the SD HDHR on sale a while back so as not to tie any other PCs directly to a single host PC. So far it has worked out well and the wife seems to have accepted the transition. This is huge for me because she has absolutely no tolerance for technology she can't comprehend.

I'm not a cord cutter in the same sense that the rest of you are. OTOH, I have eliminated most of my TV provider's hardware except for a handful of cablecards. The lifetime S3 Tivo will likely be the next thing out the door and will spell the end of a long relationship with Tivo that has spanned over a dozen years. My actual TV bill is only about $51 per month plus another $25 in equipment rentals with an additional $16 in piddly charges tacked on to confuse and extort the consumer.

Now if I can only find a way to ditch my smartphones. That would be the real cost cutter in my household.


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

mr.unnatural said:


> Now if I can only find a way to ditch my smartphones. That would be the real cost cutter in my household.


Now you're being positively medieval.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

I also trying to cut the children cords as best I can without putting too much strain on my (over 21)kids. Unfortunately each kid has different stuff to consider so no one size fits all.

If I keep this up my monthly bills will be pretty small in a year or two.


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

Jebberwocky! said:


> I also trying to cut the children cords as best I can without putting too much strain on my (over 21)kids. Unfortunately each kid has different stuff to consider so no one size fits all.
> 
> If I keep this up my monthly bills will be pretty small in a year or two.


I think a lot about how, when many of us were kids, our parents had bills for electric, gas, water, trash, and maybe cable TV with HBO. Now we have Internet, cell phones, cell phones with internet, pricey HD packages from cable or satellite, wireless cards for when we travel, hotspot add-ons so we can use our phones as wireless cards, Netflix, web hosting...

It's crazy!!

I think it's cool that some of us are "fighting back" in a kind of nerdy way and finding other ways to get the content we want without paying through the nose for it.


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 3, 2009)

TiVo premiere with lifetime and upgraded 1TB connected OTA to a outdoor CM 4228 + VHF antenna. Also use Netflix streaming but with my PS3 to avoid the current crappy TiVo client(looking forward to the spring update). Had DISH for a couple of years but don't miss it. Obviously have Internet, u-verse 6Mbps.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

Roku 2 XS on sale today on amazon (gold deal) $80.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/goldbox/ref=cs_top_nav_gb27


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Jebberwocky! said:


> Roku 2 XS on sale today on amazon (gold deal) $80.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/goldbox/ref=cs_top_nav_gb27


Interesting. I was just going to ask about the Rokus. It seems that when I ordered the Playon + Roku deal, they never followed up with the Roku. I contacted them, and they issued me a gift card for the value of the Roku they were offering, $49.99. So my question is...is the lower tier Roku good enough, or is there any reason to spend the difference and buy a higher tier model?


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

possible better depending. I like having a wired connection and the XS is the only one that you can set up wired. The game addition is okay but not anything that I would pay for.

this chart spells it out: http://www.roku.com/roku-products#3


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Yeah, I was surprised to see that the wired version was only in the twice as expensive model. I have wiring to the location, and would rather use that.


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## drknapp (Nov 28, 2011)

ntarvin said:


> 3. PlayOn and PlayLater - another package I got on sale last month for half-price. PlayOn shows up on Tivo's My Shows (which was a surprise!), and also works with Roku.


 :up:

Thanks for the heads up on PlayOn. I downloaded it and like it! I can finally watch ESPN3 on my tv without using my laptop.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

I had my new antenna installed yesterday - I went from a level of 30 on my weakest station to over 80 - not bad.

My old antenna was a big Wingard UHF/VHF, it went out with the garbage.

My new antenna is a digitenna extreme range. I paid $100 to have it installed on my roof. I had an existing pole mount that was rock solid so he reused that. I could have done it myself but my roof is so steep that it is not safe.


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## RockinRay (Aug 25, 2004)

One thing that I have noticed (and I know it has been discussed in other threads) is how weak the signal is coming in to my XL box... The old S3 will get our weakest station at 88 to 92 % while the XL will only pull 69 to 72 % on a good day. 

While we do not lose "lock" status, I would like to see that just a bit higher.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Jebberwocky! said:


> possible better depending. I like having a wired connection and the XS is the only one that you can set up wired. The game addition is okay but not anything that I would pay for.
> 
> this chart spells it out: http://www.roku.com/roku-products#3


For any content the Roku2 can handle, if you have your wireless network setup properly you will have an identical experience whether using a wireless or wired connection. I bought the Roku2 XS when it was first released. At the time I bought it because it was the only one with a wired connection. But I only used the wired connection for a short time once I found out my experience was identical with wireless.

I also had signed up for the Lifetime PlayOn deal with a RokuLT and they automatically sent me a $49.99 gift card since they were out of the Roku LT. They also said it was being discontinued. Prices on Amazon have shot up lately for the RokuLT. I was only going to get the 720P version since it was only going to be used at my GFs house. But since the XS is only around $7 more than the Roku HD version(720P only) I figured I would get the 1080P version for my second box.

Although I want to wait for a few weeks to see if the new Roku box will be released shortly. the new box is supposed to have 2GB of on board memory so a memory card won't be needed.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

RockinRay said:


> One thing that I have noticed (and I know it has been discussed in other threads) is how weak the signal is coming in to my XL box... The old S3 will get our weakest station at 88 to 92 % while the XL will only pull 69 to 72 % on a good day.
> 
> While we do not lose "lock" status, I would like to see that just a bit higher.


It could also be apples to oranges if the signal strength listed does not mean the same thing between boxes. If my signal strength on my Premieres is 30 or higher it is always rock solid. It has to get down into the 20's to start having any issues.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> I also had signed up for the Lifetime PlayOn deal with a RokuLT and they automatically sent me a $49.99 gift card since they were out of the Roku LT. They also said it was being discontinued. Prices on Amazon have shot up lately for the RokuLT. I was only going to get the 720P version since it was only going to be used at my GFs house. But since the XS is only around $7 more than the Roku HD version(720P only) I figured I would get the 1080P version for my second box.


BTW, the LT is still prices at 49.99, no tax or shipping (in IL) on the Roku website

I'm in the same baot as you, while I'd rather have the higher end unit I will be watching mostly on my old sd sony.


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

Jebberwocky! said:


> I had my new antenna installed yesterday - I went from a level of 30 on my weakest station to over 80 - not bad.


Woohoo! Congrats on the new antenna. Putting it outside was by backup plan if the attic install didn't work out. I'm around 50-60 on most stations and they're all about 50 miles away. I'm thankful I didn't have to mess with an outside install because sometimes the straight-line winds here can be brutal.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Jebberwocky! said:


> ...
> My old antenna was a big Wingard UHF/VHF, it went out with the garbage...


And it never occured to you that someone else might be able to get some use out of it?

They don't have a free section in your local Craigslist? Or even an electronics section where you could have sold it cheap?

But there's a bottomless landfill nearby?


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

unitron said:


> And it never occured to you that someone else might be able to get some use out of it?
> 
> They don't have a free section in your local Craigslist? Or even an electronics section where you could have sold it cheap?
> 
> But there's a bottomless landfill nearby?


Did it occur to you that there was a reason I replaced the old antenna? Seriously, why would you think I replaced a working antenna?

Maybe you're right, and there's a market for broken falling apart obsolete equipment. Shame on me.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

BTW, just since we've been talking Roku, Plex is now available for the Roku.

http://elan.plexapp.com/2012/03/27/plex-for-roku-is-now-official/


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## ntarvin (Jan 29, 2011)

hefe said:


> BTW, just since we've been talking Roku, Plex is now available for the Roku.
> 
> http://elan.plexapp.com/2012/03/27/plex-for-roku-is-now-official/


I could never get Plex to work on Roku - I also could not get Chaneru, RoksBox, Gabby, Local Files or any of the other streamers for personal videos to work in Roku. (Maybe it's my version of Roku - not #2, the previous - which wasn't really #1, since that came long before...)

Only 2 programs worked for me with Tivo (1) PlayOn's My Media (Beta), and (2) StreamBaby. Both worked perfectly in Tivo to stream personal videos. And, just about any format i threw at them as well...


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

hefe said:


> BTW, just since we've been talking Roku, Plex is now available for the Roku.
> 
> http://elan.plexapp.com/2012/03/27/plex-for-roku-is-now-official/


Very cool! I've been using the unsupported / private Plex channels for a while -- both Plex and Plex Grid which I like better. I'm looking forward to giving this a try!


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

I noted with interest that even the top line model that provides a USB port will not play video with AC35.1 audio. Only AAC or mp3 stereo. Pretty much non-functional as a movie player with that limitaion. I want to purchase an easy to use media player for my mother that can support a portable drive. I have an older WDTV unit that meets the specs but was hoping the newer devices with better UI and ease of use would also. Seems like a big step back. Guess I need to look at Boxee. THe roku looks only functional with streaming media which is not cost effective with current data caps/costs.


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

Installed the new Plex on my Rokus (Roki?) last night. I like that it "auto-discovers" the server. The old versions didn't and if things got messed up would just plop you to the "preferences" screen.

With it, I decided to figure out what myPlex is all about and also to install the iOS app. $5 well spent for a universal app! I can stream movies from my library to my iPhone or iPad with zero router setup. I'm definitely comfortable setting up port forwarding, but to have it just work was pretty darn cool.

It's not a Slingbox, but it allows me to watch TV shows and movies I've downloaded when I'm not at home.

Two thumbs up for Plex! :up: :up:


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## uw69 (Jan 25, 2001)

I've recently started supplementing what I can get OTA with Tivo to include Roku, and it has been a pleasant experience. Amazon Prime on the Roku works well and is getting more content on a regular basis. If only Tivo's Amazon prime stream worked as well as Roku!


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

I don't own a Blu-Ray player and I'm wondering if it's a worthwhile addition to my "cordless" media room. We currently only have a DVD player and I have always sort of figured Blu-Ray would be replaced by HD streaming. Now, however, I'm realizing we are quite a ways away from that reality.

I saw a Blu-Ray player at Sam's for $70 and was very tempted to pick it up. Is it worth it? Will I see a significant difference in quality over DVD or my first generation Apple TV?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

ScottE22 said:


> I don't own a Blu-Ray player and I'm wondering if it's a worthwhile addition to my "cordless" media room. We currently only have a DVD player and I have always sort of figured Blu-Ray would be replaced by HD streaming. Now, however, I'm realizing we are quite a ways away from that reality.
> 
> I saw a Blu-Ray player at Sam's for $70 and was very tempted to pick it up. Is it worth it? Will I see a significant difference in quality over DVD or my first generation Apple TV?


I would spend more money and get something better. Take a look at Panasonic's just released 2012 DMP BDT220, got good reviews from some European sites. It lists for $150 but you should be able to find it for less maybe in the $135 range.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

ntarvin said:


> Glad that's figured out - I thought I was going crazy and hallucinating, or just had one hell of a blast of pure dumb luck! LOL!
> 
> I have a Premier, but tonight I'm going to plugin my son's series 3 HD and see if it also works with that one. (His HD gets much better OTA than mine.... and I'd rather use it!)
> 
> Maybe this pyTivo fork will help others with PlayOn... between the services that are already on Tivo, and the addition of PlayOn/PlayLater, it's getting to be a really good substitute for cable/satellite...


Thanks for pointing this out. I've been using playon for a while, but never thought I could get it on the TIVO. It's working for me on both my series 3 and premiere tivos.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> IMHO, "cutting the cord" implies severing all ties with any type of paid TV service provider or other source of "live" video that you have to pay for. To me, this also includes eliminating the Tivo service and your ISP. To truly cut the cord you should be getting TV via an antenna using something other than a Tivo box or other DVR that requires a service fee. If you stream movies and TV shows via the internet then you have to pay your ISP for the connection.
> 
> Obviously, this takes it to the absolute extreme and is not practical for most people given that the internet is such an integral part of our everyday life. For today's lifestyle, cutting the cord really means dumping your TV provider and getting TV via OTA antenna or streaming from NetFlix, Hulu, YouTube, or other online sources. Movies can still be rented from numerous non-streaming sources like NetFlix or RedBox.
> 
> I still believe that using a Tivo and claiming you've cut the cord is cheating since you still have to pay a monthly fee or buy lifetime service. A real cord cutter uses a PC with an integral tuner. If you're still connected to cable or satellite and use a Tivo then you've only unravelled the cord a little.


Buying a TiVo with Lifetime subscription is absolutely no different than using a PC based DVR, total nonsense requirement you are trying to impose on what cord cutting is. A PC requires software that must be purchased or paid for by a monthly fee to operate, just the same as TiVo. I have no monthly fees associated with my cord cutting and having used a PC with Windows Media Center a little, I will take TiVo any day.

The monthly internet service was in place and will remain in place with or without cord cutting so for TV, I have cut the cord despite the fact I am still using the internet for Google TV but I have no monthly subscriptions at all required for my cord cutting. The internet is required for news, communication, and shopping but if an additional fee is ultimately required to also use it for TV, then my cord cutting would require a fee for TV.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Chris Gerhard said:


> Buying a TiVo with Lifetime subscription is absolutely no different than using a PC based DVR, total nonsense requirement you are trying to impose on what cord cutting is. A PC requires software that must be purchased or paid for by a monthly fee to operate, just the same as TiVo. I have no monthly fees associated with my cord cutting and having used a PC with Windows Media Center a little, I will take TiVo any day.
> 
> The monthly internet service was in place and will remain in place with or without cord cutting so for TV, I have cut the cord despite the fact I am still using the internet for Google TV but I have no monthly subscriptions at all required for my cord cutting. The internet is required for news, communication, and shopping but if an additional fee is ultimately required to also use it for TV, then my cord cutting would require a fee for TV.


I'd wager that anyone participating in these forums already has a PC with the necessary software to run WMC. Tivo requires the purchase of an additional box and service agreement. A Windows 7 PC only requires the installation of a tuner card and possibly a cablecard if using a digital cable provider. Like you said, most people also have internet service so that's a wash.

I've used Windows Media Center a lot, and I'll take it over Tivo any day. Tivos are great DVRs, but I just want something a little more than just DVR functionality. My HTPC fills that void quite nicely. BTW, there is a huge difference between what your Tivo can do and what I can do with my HTPC. When was the last time you could play Blu-Rays on your Tivo?

I prefer HTPCs and you prefer Tivos. It's all good.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

mr.unnatural said:


> I prefer HTPCs and you prefer Tivos. It's all good.


Hey guys, it doesn't have to be one or the other. With all the money you save avoiding the monthly cable and/or satellite bill, you can afford both htpc and tivo and live happily ever after.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> I'd wager that anyone participating in these forums already has a PC with the necessary software to run WMC. Tivo requires the purchase of an additional box and service agreement. A Windows 7 PC only requires the installation of a tuner card and possibly a cablecard if using a digital cable provider. Like you said, most people also have internet service so that's a wash.
> 
> I've used Windows Media Center a lot, and I'll take it over Tivo any day. Tivos are great DVRs, but I just want something a little more than just DVR functionality. My HTPC fills that void quite nicely. BTW, there is a huge difference between what your Tivo can do and what I can do with my HTPC. When was the last time you could play Blu-Rays on your Tivo?
> 
> I prefer HTPCs and you prefer Tivos. It's all good.


I have an Oppo BDP-93 for Blu-ray/DVD/SACD/DVD-A, all of which I own well over 100 of so a PC would be worthless to me for disc playing as it is for its DVR functionality. I understand some small group of people prefer a PC for DVR use but I don't know a single person in real life that does. I do know dozens, maybe hundreds that use a DVR provided by their cable or satellite company or TiVo.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

You also can't do Vudu HD or HDX with a PC can you? I see nothing attractive about using a PC to handle DVR or disc playback or internet streaming unless the Vudu concern is not an issue. I sure couldn't find anyway to do it when I tried. 

My girlfriend's laptop had the display go out, it only displays properly if barely opened, if fully opened it is unusable with flickering and lines constantly. I couldn't fix it and couldn't get information how to fix it so we got her another one. It finally dawned on me to put it to use for Hulu and various networks blocking Google TV access, I picked up the Google TV Logitech K700 keyboard cheap and use it for that rare instance I need access to those sites. That isn't often since I use OTA with TiVo for network programs but it is nice when needed. The other option, a DLNA server like PlayOn or TVersity Pro with computer running anyway was how I was going to proceed but I like this better with direct connection to the HDTV and AV receiver.


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## RockinRay (Aug 25, 2004)

Chris Gerhard said:


> I have an Oppo BDP-93 for Blu-ray/DVD/SACD/DVD-A.


That is one sweet player! I am considering one at this time.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Chris Gerhard said:


> You also can't do Vudu HD or HDX with a PC can you?


You can absolutely do Vudu HD on a PC. You can also do it on an XBox 360, Playstation 3, Blu-Ray player, HDTV, iPad, or Mac. I'm not that familiar with HDX, but I get the impression that it's something hardware-based embedded in consumer devices.

The Oppo players are fantastic. If I was in the market for a standalone Blu-Ray player it's the one I'd want. The thing is, now that I'm using my PC for playback I can't see me ever owning a standalone player.

The beauty of using a PC for Blu-Ray and DVD playback is that you can strip out the unwanted crap from the disc and just play the movie without having to wade through endless trailers, shorts, advertisements, etc., just to get to the main movie. With my PC, I select a movie and it starts playing in full 1080p with HD audio.

I bought an inexpensive standalone player a couple of years ago and used it exactly twice. I got so frustrated with having to sit through all the useless detritus just to get to the main menu that I just ejected the disc and ripped it to my PC. I will never use another standalone player for this very reason.

I keep all of my ripped movies on an unRAID server. My library currently consists of over 900 movies and counting. My library is more current than anything NetFlix has to offer for streaming, and the sound and picture quality is far better. It's my own personal On-Demand library that's available for viewing anywhere in my home.


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

poppagene said:


> Hey guys, it doesn't have to be one or the other. With all the money you save avoiding the monthly cable and/or satellite bill, you can afford both htpc and tivo and live happily ever after.


Haha - this. I have two Premieres and still find myself jonesing for a Mac Mini Media Center which I may add to the mix once I can rationalize that I've "broken even" on the cost of 2x(Premieres + Lifetime).


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> You can absolutely do Vudu HD on a PC. You can also do it on an XBox 360, Playstation 3, Blu-Ray player, HDTV, iPad, or Mac. I'm not that familiar with HDX, but I get the impression that it's something hardware-based embedded in consumer devices.
> 
> The Oppo players are fantastic. If I was in the market for a standalone Blu-Ray player it's the one I'd want. The thing is, now that I'm using my PC for playback I can't see me ever owning a standalone player.
> 
> ...


Vudu HDX is just Vudu 1080p. I couldn't do anything but Vudu SD with a PC so if there is a way to do HD, there is probably a way to do HDX but I just logged into my Vudu account and it indicates SD only from the PC. Not sure how to get around that.

I think a standalone player blows away a PC for the various disc formats, again I don't even know if you can play SACD with a PC, I have certainly never heard of it. As far as ripping Blu-ray for a server, don't have one and that is illegal in the US so I don't care in any event.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Chris Gerhard said:


> Vudu HDX is just Vudu 1080p. I couldn't do anything but Vudu SD with a PC so if there is a way to do HD, there is probably a way to do HDX but I just logged into my Vudu account and it indicates SD only from the PC. Not sure how to get around that.


Me either. I don't use streaming formats so I was going by what was posted on their website. Streaming 1080p requires an enormous amount of bandwidth. The only way to accomplish this is with some sort of compression technique. I don't know about you, but I don't like watching compressed video.



> I think a standalone player blows away a PC for the various disc formats, again I don't even know if you can play SACD with a PC, I have certainly never heard of it. As far as ripping Blu-ray for a server, don't have one and that is illegal in the US so I don't care in any event.


That's a matter of opinion. I have yet to see a standalone player that "blows away" anything a PC can do. I don't believe SACD playback is possible on a PC, simply because there probably aren't any drives or software that support it for PC use. SACD is an extremely niche product so it affects only a small percentage of consumers. I'm actually surprised the format is still alive, even though it's probably the best currently available for audio playback.

As for ripping Blu-Rays, the law, as well as the copyright holders (i.e. the studios), only care about content being distributed illegally. They don't care what you do with it in the confines of your own home.


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

mr.unnatural said:


> That's a matter of opinion. I have yet to see a standalone player that "blows away" anything a PC can do. I don't believe SACD playback is possible on a PC, simply because there probably aren't any drives or software that support it for PC use. SACD is an extremely niche product so it affects only a small percentage of consumers. I'm actually surprised the format is still alive, even though it's probably the best currently available for audio playback.


I'll admit that your steadfast HTPC advocacy has piqued my interest. Even with two TiVos I still find myself wanting a dedicated machine to handle certain things for me like serving Plex videos, running Sick Beard and CouchPotato, doing video conversions, etc. I'm currently using my kids' iMac from circa 2007 and it does fine, but when I'm running video conversions on my account it becomes pretty pokey when they try to use it.

I'd love to hear more about your HTPC setup. I'm thinking of a Mac Mini in my basement connected to my projector so it could run Plex on the big screen and also serve Plex to my virus Rokus (Roki) and other devices. I'm certain that other options are less expensive, but I am no longer certain of my skillz in the non-OS X universe...


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## ntarvin (Jan 29, 2011)

As Dave Barry once said...

*"There is a fine line between a hobby and mental illness..."*

My wife says we're all teetering on that line! LOL!


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

ntarvin said:


> As Dave Barry once said...
> 
> "There is a fine line between a hobby and mental illness..."
> 
> My wife says we're all teetering on that line! LOL!


True story.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> Me either. I don't use streaming formats so I was going by what was posted on their website. Streaming 1080p requires an enormous amount of bandwidth. The only way to accomplish this is with some sort of compression technique. I don't know about you, but I don't like watching compressed video.
> 
> That's a matter of opinion. I have yet to see a standalone player that "blows away" anything a PC can do. I don't believe SACD playback is possible on a PC, simply because there probably aren't any drives or software that support it for PC use. SACD is an extremely niche product so it affects only a small percentage of consumers. I'm actually surprised the format is still alive, even though it's probably the best currently available for audio playback.
> 
> As for ripping Blu-Rays, the law, as well as the copyright holders (i.e. the studios), only care about content being distributed illegally. They don't care what you do with it in the confines of your own home.


Vudu HDX is certainly compressed but it looks outstanding, what a wonderful rental service, it beats any internet streaming service I have seen by a long shot. With internet service at 5Mbps, streaming Vudu HDX works great and all I do is check the daily 99 cent rental and if it is a movie I want, I rent it and can watch it any time in the next 30 days. With slower speeds and a PS3 or other Vudu player capable of download and playback later, Vudu HDX works great. I use Vudu and like it, that makes using only a PC based internet streaming player a non-starter for me. Vudu also has movies for sale and a disc to digital file service for those interested in owning movies on file, again as far as I know playback in HD or HDX requires a standalone player even if you own the movie.

No question SACD is a niche format, so what, I use it and that makes a PC based disc player a non-starter for me. I don't consider SACD better than Blu-ray for audio except for the fact there are maybe 6,000 SACD releases to date and only a handful of Blu-ray releases. Having said that I don't want a PC as a disc player, I don't want a PC as an OTA DVR and I don't want a PC as my only internet streaming player, there are much better options in my opinion, I just yesterday installed PlayOn/PlayLater on a laptop with a broken display and I use that for Hulu and other sites that block Google TV. It was on sale, $99 for the package and a Roku 2 HD, I don't want the Roku 2 HD, will sell it or gift it but I refused to pay $99 for the PlayOn/PlayLater software. I use it to share Hulu and the various sites blocking Google TV with my PS3, Google TV boxes and Blu-ray players.

So now, I have cut the cord and use OTA with TiVo, Google TV, PS3, Blu-ray, DLNA, Vudu, Amazon Instant Video, a broken laptop and have boxes scattered over the house at the 3 HD displays and have everything I wanted covered. Payout based on my monthly savings should be sometime in 2017, woohoo, I will be putting money in the bank. I will be the first to admit if there had been a solution with a PC and and single client/player at each display needing one, I could have been happy with that and it would have been awesome.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Chris Gerhard said:


> ......... I just yesterday installed PlayOn/PlayLater on a laptop with a broken display and I use that for Hulu and other sites that block Google TV. It was on sale, $99 for the package and a Roku 2 HD, I don't want the Roku 2 HD, will sell it or gift it but I refused to pay $99 for the PlayOn/PlayLater software.........


Where did you get this bundle? The PlayOn website has a bundle that includes the Roku 2 *XD* (not *HD*) and PlayOn/PlayLater for $129.99. I might want the Roku but it would have to be the *XS* model since I want hardwired ethernet capability. Actually, the details of the bundle are that they give you an "electronic Amazon gift card for $74.10, which is the current price of a Roku 2 XD". If that gift card could be applied to anything you want at Amazon, it would be a good deal ($74 in exchange for paying $30 more than the normal Playon/Playlater price).

Does the PlayLater software allow you to advance-schedule recordings, i.e., kind of like a season pass in a TiVo?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

dlfl said:


> Where did you get this bundle? The PlayOn website has a bundle that includes the Roku 2 *XD* (not *HD*) and PlayOn/PlayLater for $129.99. I might want the Roku but it would have to be the *XS* model since I want hardwired ethernet capability. Actually, the details of the bundle are that they give you an "electronic Amazon gift card for $74.10, which is the current price of a Roku 2 XD". If that gift card could be applied to anything you want at Amazon, it would be a good deal ($74 in exchange for paying $30 more than the normal Playon/Playlater price).
> 
> Does the PlayLater software allow you to advance-schedule recordings, i.e., kind of like a season pass in a TiVo?


They keep changing the deal pretty frequently. When I got it, it was the PlayOn license plus a Roku2 LT. They gave me a $49.99 gift card. I used that credit to buy the XS instead.

As for Play Later, I don't know exactly how it works, but they do offer a free trial that I may try just to see. There are some limitations to it so they can keep it "legal" it seems...


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

hefe said:


> They keep changing the deal pretty frequently. When I got it, it was the PlayOn license plus a Roku2 LT. They gave me a $49.99 gift card. I used that credit to buy the XS instead.
> 
> As for Play Later, I don't know exactly how it works, but they do offer a free trial that I may try just to see. There are some limitations to it so they can keep it "legal" it seems...


I found a recent post on Slick Deals saying the Amazon gift certificate is just like any other -- you can apply it to your Amazon account and use it for any purchase. *EDIT: I contacted PlayOn directly about this. They confirmed it.* With the current bundle "de jour" this means you effectively get the PlayOn/PlayLater combo for a net cost of $56.

Regarding keep it legal, my understanding is their recordings are encrypted and can only be played back to the local display or via PlayOn to a DLNA client. PlayOn claims this makes it legal -- seems reasonable to me. (Of course this means you can't distribute copies to others or re-encode to another format, etc.)


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Chris Gerhard said:


> No question SACD is a niche format, so what, I use it and that makes a PC based disc player a non-starter for me. I don't consider SACD better than Blu-ray for audio except for the fact there are maybe 6,000 SACD releases to date and only a handful of Blu-ray releases. Having said that I don't want a PC as a disc player, I don't want a PC as an OTA DVR and I don't want a PC as my only internet streaming player, there are much better options in my opinion, I just yesterday installed PlayOn/PlayLater on a laptop with a broken display and I use that for Hulu and other sites that block Google TV. It was on sale, $99 for the package and a Roku 2 HD, I don't want the Roku 2 HD, will sell it or gift it but I refused to pay $99 for the PlayOn/PlayLater software. I use it to share Hulu and the various sites blocking Google TV with my PS3, Google TV boxes and Blu-ray players.


I was a diehard high-end audiophile for decades so I'm all in favor of any format that benefits the niche crowd. For SACDs you'd definitely need a separate player. I'm not sure what you consider only a handful of releases, but last time I looked I'm pretty sure there were at least a couple thousand movies available on Blu-Ray.

Sounds to me like you just have a bug about not wanting to use a PC for anything other than a PC. I used to be of the mindset that having separate components for everything was the best solution, until I discovered it wasn't, at least not for me. The ability to access all of my media from a single device is incredibly convenient. It's not just all about convenience, though, or else I'd be streaming mediocre video from NetFlix or Amazon just like everyone else. I also don't watch video on anything smaller than a 42" HDTV. Playback from my HTPC rivals standalone players and DVRs so I see little point in having a bunch of extra boxes cluttering up my equipment cabinet. I love having my entire media collection just a remote click away.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> I was a diehard high-end audiophile for decades so I'm all in favor of any format that benefits the niche crowd. For SACDs you'd definitely need a separate player. I'm not sure what you consider only a handful of releases, but last time I looked I'm pretty sure there were at least a couple thousand movies available on Blu-Ray.


In comparing SACD to Blu-ray for audio, I was comparing thousands of albums available on SACD to very few available on Blu-ray but I acknowledge Blu-ray is great for audio, superior to SACD in my opinion if there was much of anything to play. I am very happy with 96kHz/24-Bit PCM, DSD means nothing special to me. Not sure how Blu-ray having thousands of movies available is relevant to my comment.



> Sounds to me like you just have a bug about not wanting to use a PC for anything other than a PC. I used to be of the mindset that having separate components for everything was the best solution, until I discovered it wasn't, at least not for me. The ability to access all of my media from a single device is incredibly convenient. It's not just all about convenience, though, or else I'd be streaming mediocre video from NetFlix or Amazon just like everyone else.


I pointed out why a PC is pitiful choice for my needs for disc playback, internet streaming, and OTA DVR, nothing against a PC if it was better suited for my needs. Apparently you haven't seen Vudu HDX, it blows Amazon and Netflix away. You started by saying it was a good choice then acknowledged you can't do the things I want either.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

And again, I don't have a server or storage with music and videos, I have discs, an antenna on the roof and I stream from the internet. I am never going to convert my disc collection to files on a hard disc, that is just my preference but if I did, I would likely use a great player like the Oppo BDP-93 to play the files, not a PC.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Chris Gerhard said:


> Not sure how Blu-ray having thousands of movies available is relevant to my comment.


I didn't realize we were only talking about audio. Sorry if I'm a bit off but I was up late with my Mom at the hospital. She fell and broke her hip while at an aerobics class (she'll be 89 this month) and had to undergo surgery.



> I pointed out why a PC is pitiful choice for my needs for disc playback, internet streaming, and OTA DVR, nothing against a PC if it was better suited for my needs. Apparently you haven't seen Vudu HDX, it blows Amazon and Netflix away. You started by saying it was a good choice then acknowledged you can't do the things I want either.


I would hardly say pitiful, but possibly inadequate for what you want it to do. It actually does everything you mentioned quite well, and in most cases much better than the vast majority of standalone boxes unless you want to start paying four figures and up for high-end hardware that's only marginally better. I followed that white rabbit down the hole for years until I realized I was just chasing a dream, and then I woke up.

Amazon and Netflix are mediocre streaming choices, IMHO, so it doesn't surprise me in the least that Vudu HDX is better. I still prefer watching movies ripped directly from the Blu-Ray source with full HD audio and zero compression. To me, that "blows away" anything you can get from a streaming service. The source material used for Vudu HDX was probably ripped from Blu-Rays to begin with and then highly compressed to fit in the allocated bandwidth. It might look very good, but it still can't compare to the original Blu-Ray.

Keep in mind that all of my discussions are just my personal preference and opinions, that's all. Everyone has different ideas about what suits them best. I'm just offering my opinion based on years of experience. I'm not trying to change your mind, especially since it's clear you have it made up.

FWIW, I pay a fraction of what it costs per movie via Vudu HDX (or any other streaming service) by renting Blu-Rays from NetFlix. I'm also not saddled with any time limit as to when I have to complete the movie once I've started watching it. There are too many restrictions with streaming services and the price per movie is more than I'm willing to pay.


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## dt100 (Apr 7, 2008)

Aero 1 said:


> Just looked and it also works on the HD. This is great! Now I can skip the Hulu commercials with this!!


I have a really, really basic question. The show is first "recorded" with playlater. Then, the pytivo "fork" allows the transfer to the Tivo of the show recorded on playlater?

Or, using the pytivo fork do you use playon to stream the show to the tivo, and then record the show on tivo as it streams, like recording live tv while watching it?
Thanks


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## ntarvin (Jan 29, 2011)

dt100 said:


> I have a really, really basic question. The show is first "recorded" with playlater. Then, the pytivo "fork" allows the transfer to the Tivo of the show recorded on playlater?
> 
> Or, using the pytivo fork do you use playon to stream the show to the tivo, and then record the show on tivo as it streams, like recording live tv while watching it?
> Thanks


Ummmm, kind of... the pytivo fork allows you to access all of PlayOn on the Tivo. So, if you have recorded a show with PlayLater, you can access it on Tivo. (PlayOn has a "channel" to access PlayLater recordings.)

I really haven't had a lot of time to play with all the possible ramifications, so I don't know if you can stream the show to tivo and record the stream. Something to look into...


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## dt100 (Apr 7, 2008)

ntarvin said:


> Ummmm, kind of... the pytivo fork allows you to access all of PlayOn on the Tivo. So, if you have recorded a show with PlayLater, you can access it on Tivo. (PlayOn has a "channel" to access PlayLater recordings.)


Thanks. When you watch the playlater channel on the tivo, can you use the tivo remote to skip or fast forward through commercials?


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

dt100 said:


> Thanks. When you watch the playlater channel on the tivo, can you use the tivo remote to skip or fast forward through commercials?


Yes


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## dt100 (Apr 7, 2008)

Thats good news about the tivo remote controlling the playon/playlater playback.
Does the tivo play the recorded show, or the computer? The reason I am asking is because I dont have a windows computer, and may get one just to run playon/playlater. I can spend the money I am saving by not having cable TV. Can I just get the least expensive windows computer, or do I still need to be concerned about processor speed, chip, etc.?


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## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

ntarvin said:


> Ummmm, kind of... the pytivo fork allows you to access all of PlayOn on the Tivo. So, if you have recorded a show with PlayLater, you can access it on Tivo. (PlayOn has a "channel" to access PlayLater recordings.)
> 
> I really haven't had a lot of time to play with all the possible ramifications, so I don't know if you can stream the show to tivo and record the stream. Something to look into...


have you had a problem with this fork running it as a service? i cant push shows with it if its running as a service but playon works. when i disable the service and run another instance of pytivo by running the .py file, it works fine. for some reason, i cant get any versions of pytivo to work as a service.


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## ntarvin (Jan 29, 2011)

Aero 1 said:


> have you had a problem with this fork running it as a service? i cant push shows with it if its running as a service but playon works. when i disable the service and run another instance of pytivo by running the .py file, it works fine. for some reason, i cant get any versions of pytivo to work as a service.


There have been some issues with running it as a service - if you go to the PlayOn forums (playon.tv) they have an area on Tivo. It has quite a long discussion on the pros and cons of running it as a service and how to do it...


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## dt100 (Apr 7, 2008)

ntarvin said:


> There have been some issues with running it as a service - if you go to the PlayOn forums (playon.tv) they have an area on Tivo. It has quite a long discussion on the pros and cons of running it as a service and how to do it...


I looked on the playon.tv forums, and could not find the Tivo section. It is probably right under my nose. Can you please post a link to it, or describe where it is. Thanks


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

This is where TiVo ownership hurts a little bit...

I bought a Premiere in February for the great room with PLS. Love it. $600

I bought a second Premiere in March for the master bedroom with PLS. Love it. $500

Now I have a "theater room/media room" downstairs where we do most of our movie watching and the occasional big TV event (Superbowl, World Series, Olympics, and -- regretfully -- The Bachelorette). When I had DTV, I never paid for a box down there choosing instead to schlep the master bedroom box up and down when there was a need. Primarily, I just didn't want to pay the $7/month for a rarely used box.

What I'd love is another TiVo, but I find that we basically use the bedroom TiVo as a streaming device for the shows recorded in the great room -- it really doesn't have its own Season Passes except where recording in the great room would have caused a conflict.

So what to do downstairs? I need something to serve as a TV tuner for the projector and something to stream the occasional DVR'd show from the great room box. It just seems that buying another $100 device plus another $400 PLS is an awful lot of green -- like making the total expenditure $1600! I guess that's not AWFUL all things considered because over a year that's $133/month which is only slightly more than I paid for DTV and once it's paid, it's paid for "life."

I understand there will likely be an IP STB which sounds like EXACTLY what I want except it's not available until "end of summer" and, even then, sounds like it won't work with a vanilla Premiere -- only the XL4.

I also have 2 Roku boxes and an old Apple TV, FWIW.

So I'm stuck... I wish there were another device that could stream from a TiVo, but obviously they have an interest in NOT doing that.

I could probably work out something with TTG and transcode/encode content for later viewing, but that would require planning and work and time. So, no TiVo-ing the game upstairs and starting it an hour later downstairs.

Anything I'm missing (besides hauling a box up and down when needed)? I'd like to think that if it were easier to watch stuff down there, I'd use the room more.

So, to summarize, I want another TiVo but I don't want to buy another TiVo.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

dt100 said:


> Thats good news about the tivo remote controlling the playon/playlater playback.
> Does the tivo play the recorded show, or the computer? The reason I am asking is because I dont have a windows computer, and may get one just to run playon/playlater. I can spend the money I am saving by not having cable TV. Can I just get the least expensive windows computer, or do I still need to be concerned about processor speed, chip, etc.?


Unfortunately I believe the correct answer is you need a fairly beefy PC for good PlayOn performance. PlayOn streams the video to the TiVo via pyTivo and the TiVo records it. Like other pyTiVo transfers you can start playing the video on your TiVo/TV almost immediately, but it is playing back from a recording on the TiVo hard disk. In most (all?) cases your PC is transcoding the video, which is compute intensive. In fact it could conceivably be transcoding it twice because both PlayOn and PyTivo use ffmpeg to transcode. My PC has an Intel i7 860 CPU (quad core) at 2.8 GHz and 8 GB of RAM. When PlayOn/pyTivo are processing a Video the CPU usage is around 15%. When only PlayOn is streaming (to a different client) it runs about half that. These numbers seem to imply you could use a lot less powerful PC if you didn't want to do anything else on it.

PlayOn has different quality settings and higher quality requires more CPU power. They recommend their "automatic" setting, which is all I've used so far. The picture quality is not true HD but is quite acceptable to me on a 40" LCTV. The pyTivo PlayOn plugin tells Playon it is feeding a Wii client, so I assume some combination of that setting and the quality setting determines both picture quality and bitrate (transcoding work) that is used.


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## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

ScottE22 said:


> This is where TiVo ownership hurts a little bit...
> 
> I bought a Premiere in February for the great room with PLS. Love it. $600
> 
> ...


http://www.slingbox.com/go/slingbox-prohd


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

Aero 1 said:


> http://www.slingbox.com/go/slingbox-prohd


I've considered that. But how to get the TiVo picture onto the basement projector? I think at one time there used to be a Sling "Catcher" or something that was made to hook up to another TV in the house, but now they seem focused on mobile viewing.

A Slingbox and a Boxee with Slingplayer would be more than a TiVo with PLS.

In other news, refurb Premieres are on sale for $49 through Thursday. May have to bite the bullet.


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## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

ScottE22 said:


> I've considered that. But how to get the TiVo picture onto the basement projector? I think at one time there used to be a Sling "Catcher" or something that was made to hook up to another TV in the house, but now they seem focused on mobile viewing.
> 
> A Slingbox and a Boxee with Slingplayer would be more than a TiVo with PLS.
> 
> In other news, refurb Premieres are on sale for $49 through Thursday. May have to bite the bullet.


hook your laptop to the projector and use the sling software


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## dt100 (Apr 7, 2008)

ScottE22 said:


> So what to do downstairs?


Can you connect the Tivo to the projector the "old fashion" way - by running a cable from the Tivo (via a splitter) to the projector? Very long flexible drill bits are available for drilling through walls and pulling wires. I have one Tivo connected to three TV's (all in different rooms), using Hotlink to control the Tivo from two of the three rooms. I have a raised foundation house, so this was easy. You can also run wires inside of a closet where no one will notice.


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## dt100 (Apr 7, 2008)

dlfl said:


> Unfortunately I believe the correct answer is you need a fairly beefy PC for good PlayOn performance. PlayOn streams the video to the TiVo via pyTivo and the TiVo records it. Like other pyTiVo transfers you can start playing the video on your TiVo/TV almost immediately, but it is playing back from a recording on the TiVo hard disk. In most (all?) cases your PC is transcoding the video, which is compute intensive. In fact it could conceivably be transcoding it twice because both PlayOn and PyTivo use ffmpeg to transcode. My PC has an Intel i7 860 CPU (quad core) at 2.8 GHz and 8 GB of RAM. When PlayOn/pyTivo are processing a Video the CPU usage is around 15%. When only PlayOn is streaming (to a different client) it runs about half that. These numbers seem to imply you could use a lot less powerful PC if you didn't want to do anything else on it.
> 
> PlayOn has different quality settings and higher quality requires more CPU power. They recommend their "automatic" setting, which is all I've used so far. The picture quality is not true HD but is quite acceptable to me on a 40" LCTV. The pyTivo PlayOn plugin tells Playon it is feeding a Wii client, so I assume some combination of that setting and the quality setting determines both picture quality and bitrate (transcoding work) that is used.


So, the show is actually recorded on the Tivo for playback later, and skipping commericals? If that is the case, I can do the transfers and then watch the shows later.Thanks for the detailed answers.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

dt100 said:


> So, the show is actually recorded on the Tivo for playback later, and skipping commericals? If that is the case, I can do the transfers and then watch the shows later.Thanks for the detailed answers.


Yes. Until recently there was a problem that some transfered shows would immediately be deleted by the TiVo as soon as they finished transferring. It appears that recent code mods in playon.py have eliminated that problem. The plugin is working perfectly on my TiVo HD with a wired network connection, both push and pull. YMMV.

Here is jkasyan's thread on the pyTivo forum on this:
http://pytivo.sourceforge.net/forum/pytivo-for-jython-windows-installer-t1610.html
I'm not sure what the status of his installer is -- I don't use it. You can make your own assessment of that by reading his thread and/or pm'ing him.

I'm attaching a zip that contains eveything you need to add this plugin to a Wmcbrine pyTivo installation. Unpack the playon folder into your plugins folder. The AddToPyTivo.conf.txt file contains the lines you need to add to your pyTivo.conf file to create the PlayOn "share". The code in the zip is also available from the Google Code repository link given in the first post of the jkasyan thread linked above.


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## dt100 (Apr 7, 2008)

dlfl- This is fantastic .. thank you.


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## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

Found a great DNS service that will bypass MLB blackouts. $5 a month or $50 a year, change DNS settings on your router for full LAN bypass or on individual devices so you can watch local MLB teams. MLB was my last Cord Cutting necessity for my local team. Now i can retire the slingbox at my dads house and watch the home feed of the sh*tty Mets in HD!

http://unblock-us.com

They support only a handful of sites, but MLB is the biggie: http://unblock-us.com/3582.html

Supported Devices: http://unblock-us.com/how-to-set-up/

I changed the DNS settings on my router and now my xbox, 2 apple tv's, 3 rokus and smart Tv can now access local MLB.tv. The performance is great, no degradation on my internet connection relating to changing the DNS service from OpenDns. Tested netflix on tivo, works fine, web surfing, fine. Its a great, private, fast DNS service.


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## SWFan (Oct 6, 2002)

I cut the cable cord last summer. I was a fairly early Tivo adopter and when I decided to go HD back in the day, Tivo didn't offer any HD versions, so I jumped ship and went with TWC's crappy box, though it did work. Used that set up for many years. Finally last year realized I was paying around $60/mo to watch roughly four shows a week that were all on local network channels.

So, when I decided to cut the cord last summer I knew I still wanted DVR functionality and I decided to go back to Tivo. Bought a Tivo Premier. 

I fortunately live within 20 miles of all the local antennas, so I just bought an inexpensive indoor antenna and have it connected directly to the Tivo.

We also signed up for Netflix's streaming service. While the Tivo can play Netflix I was not happy with its performance or UI. Fortunately I had an Apple TV 2 and I use that for Netflix watching.

We signed up for Hulu+ and kept it for only about 4 months and then dropped it. There was just too much content that was available via their web interface that wasn't allowed to be shown on "mobile" devices which includes Tivo.

I signed up for Amazon's 30 day trial of Amazon Prime, but we don't order much from them and I didn't find anything they offered that we weren't getting with Netflix and then some.

We are also a Mac household, so I'm looking forward to Mountain Lion coming out as it will include Air Play in the OS. According to the tests people have done with the developer builds we should be able to wirelessly stream any content we pull up in the browser to our Apple TV. This will add one additional level of flexibility.


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## ntarvin (Jan 29, 2011)

We've talked about PlayOn - another program that works well with TiVo is Miro - for tv and podcasts. If your tv show or podcast has an RSS feed, you can set up Miro to auto-download new episodes and have them waiting on your Tivo. 

At the bottom of the MyShows list, my Tivo shows the video files I have in the default locations on my computer as long as I have them set to "share" in Windows 7. (Actually, I have 2 computers that show up on Tivo at the bottom of the MyShows list.) 

When I click them, they show a long list of vid files, and some additional folders - (1) PlayLater - files I have downloaded on PlayLater, and (2) Miro - all the podcasts and shows I have downloaded on Miro. (and whatever else you have set to download to My Videos under your User directory in Windows)

I'm finding that Tivo is quite versatile for gathering up web stuff, and there is less and less need for connecting my computer to the net.

Anybody have any other proggies that will work with Tivo????


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

Cord Cutter results for the second quarter:

Direct TV lost 52,000 subscribers
Dish lost 10,000
TWC lost 169,000
Comcast lost 176,000

However,

Verizon FiOs added 120,000
AT&T Uverse added 150,000

Net loss about 130,000.


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## Bill G1948 (Sep 7, 2013)

after about 40 years as a cable only household could not afford any longer the $160+ on cable & internet from Comcast. 
Started out with a Roku 3, then an HDTV antenna, and last week a used Tivo series 4 with lifetime from Ebay, subscribed to Netflix, Amazon Prime and Hulu+--, after dropping Comcast - this configuration I should save about $100/month 

I am a non technical person & I have to keep the cable cutting configuration simple as well as to be wife approved

one problem is programming from TNT - my wife watches five TNT series 
the only access I have found is to buy each new episode from Amazon or Vudu - this is still cheaper than overall cable but it will eat a couple of hundred each year -- are there any alternatives that are out there?


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## Joe Siegler (May 10, 2000)

Bill G1948 said:


> one problem is programming from TNT - my wife watches five TNT series the only access I have found is to buy each new episode from Amazon or Vudu - this is still cheaper than overall cable but it will eat a couple of hundred each year -- are there any alternatives that are out there?


The odd series like that which I care about I'll just buy the season pass for from iTunes. Oddly enough for me that's TNT as well. Speaking of the revived Dallas.

I had to drop Cable TV in 2011 due to unemployment. There's a handful of shows I do miss, though. The family (mostly wife & daughter) really miss the Rose Bowl Parade coverage on HGTV, as they're the only ones who run a 100% commercial free coverage - and they don't spend half their time talking about guests. However, their deal only allows them to show it live as it happens, and one rerun. Can't stream it anywhere. When I looked into dropping cable TV originally, I realized about 75% of our viewing was on antenna available channels. So that was easy.

The biggest problem for me was finding an antenna that worked right. Turns out every indoor antenna I tried failed, because of some sort of something in my walls. I had to go to the attic in the end with an outdoor antenna. Since then everything's been fine unless there's a LOT of excessive storms in the area, but that's not a huge surprise. I wrote about all this in detail on my blog here, and in a thread on tvfool here (mostly about attempts at indoor antenna placement).

Things have gotten better lately with iOS channel apps and streaming, as well as Xbox 360 stuff. However, if there's EVER alacarte access of channels via Apple TV or Xbox One or something along those lines I'll run SCREAMING towards these things to let me buy probably the half a dozen channels I miss.

Speaking of that. I'm surprised Major League Baseball doesn't just stream the coverage of MLB Network on their own mlb.com app or something. It's a free channel for the cable operators as far as I can tell, and it is probably the #1 most missed channel for me from Cable TV.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

dlfl said:


> Yes. Until recently there was a problem that some transfered shows would immediately be deleted by the TiVo as soon as they finished transferring. It appears that recent code mods in playon.py have eliminated that problem. The plugin is working perfectly on my TiVo HD with a wired network connection, both push and pull. YMMV.
> 
> Here is jkasyan's thread on the pyTivo forum on this:
> http://pytivo.sourceforge.net/forum/pytivo-for-jython-windows-installer-t1610.html
> ...


Update on pyTivo PlayOn plugin:
See this thread on the pyTivo forum:
http://pytivo.sourceforge.net/forum/playon-plugin-t2460.html


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## roving1 (Nov 30, 2013)

I'm new to Tivo, actually my VCR died finally, and I'm still using plain basic cable at Time Warner. I bought the Tivo that I thought would be useful for future as well as present, but looks like the TCD649080 isn't made for antenna after all. (The term "digital tuner" fooled me.) I think I would like to keep it to hack and maybe I can turn it into an antenna box, and meanwhile, here's my wish list for how I'd like Tivo to work in the modern age.

I don't care for streaming TV. I don't have a TV anymore, because I decided to use components instead. So I use a PC monitor, a headset with an amplifer, and a HDMI to VGA adapter. My tuner is a PHD-VRX and I have a component splitter box that allows me to plug in other devices as desired such a Tivo, DVD player, PS2, etc. I'm hard of hearing so the volume and closed captions are used together and (usually) work fine. I am thinking of getting a wireless headset if there is one strong enough for me to hear. (If I used speakers, my neighbors in the next door apartment might complain about the noise.)

1. I want TV broadcast websites to have downloads of their programs in .tivo format, that I can download to my PC or Tivo, with commercials included is fine. Then, I want to be able to store them on my Tivo hard drive to watch like any other program and then delete when I'm done. So, for the day when I have high speed internet and a home network, that is what I hope Tivo company will negotiate with "The Powers That Be" (henceforth to be referred to as TPTB.) The desktop software will probably need to be updated, and maybe the Tivo software will need a patch.

2. If there is some hardware reason why it's not simply a hack job to make the TCD649080 work with an antenna, then I'd appreciate if Tivo would make available modification services so that their old machines can continue to do proper service in the new digital environment. I don't mind paying the monthly fee on an old machine, and I don't mind a condition of having to buy a newer machine to qualify, providing the new machine can work the way I want it to, "cable-free". The reason I want to ditch cable is that in order to pay for high-speed internet, something has to go. Cable seems to be the obvious choice, especially since I'm tired of paying for the guys to watch umpteen numbers of sports channels. (I don't watch ANY of them.) I also don't need 300 channels.

Incidentally, all the above is predicated on my being able to learn Linux. I only had a short time using Unix back in the day, so it'll be a little strange going back to that kind of environment. I am properly trained in handling a soldering iron, but hopefully I won't need to go that far. I want to work with the machine, not destroy it.

Someone posted a script for Tivo (which I saved) for changing the SDV channels to QAM numbers and I have a good QAM tuner (PHD-VRX) which I can use to locate the correct numbers, adding in all the subchannels as well. The poster (not in this forum) did not specify which model of Tivo the script was for. It might be for Series 1, but I'm willing to give it a try with a Series 2 in the future.

I am wondering what format OTA is, because I read something about MPEG2, MPEG4, etc. which I know they're file types, but I wondered if the Tivo I have can "understand" OTA programs like it does clear cable, and also I wonder if the digital tuner in the TCD649080 is truly digital, or if I need a digital to analog converter in line with the antenna. I have one I tried to use with my PHD-VRX to get the digital tuner in the Tivo to read QAM, but it didn't help. I would love to bypass the SDV information, which is why I was happy to find someone had written a script to do just that.

I would like to emphasize that if all this worked out, I would continue to pay Tivo the fee so that I can continue getting program information to record OTA. I just would be using it a little differently than they planned.

Thanks for any help.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

You can use a TCD649080 on OTA with a workaround but the channel lineup won't be correct and there are other problems. But beings how your Tivo doesn't have lifetime, I wouldn't bother. If standard definition is OK for you, just buy a single tuner with lifetime for $40 from eBay or craigslist. If you need high definition then you'll have to go with a Series 3 or higher TiVo. TiVos are also for sale on this forum.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

I fear you didn't do sufficient research before making your purchase.

If you are a Standard Definition analog cable customer, the 649 is a good machine.

You can copy shows from it to a PC because they aren't copy-protected by the cable company the way that digital cable is.

With a Marvell or JMicron chipset based SATA/IDE adapter you can run up to two 1TB drives in it.

But not only was it not designed for digital cable OR digital broadcast, it, unlike the preceeding Series 2 single tuner units, wasn't even designed for analog broadcast (no UHF tuning ability).

Any hardware hack more complicated than drive replacement/upgrade and/or curing the power supply of "capacitor plague" is hideously economically unfeasible. 

If you want to be able to get digital over the air, a good used TCD648250 (the original Series 3) or a TCD652160 (the HD) or TCD658000 (the HD XL) would probably be a better choice, in that you wouldn't need to hardware hack anything (except very possibly to replace about $10 worth of low ESR 105 degree caps on the power supply, but it's just through hole, not SMD).


Which is your local Craigslist site?


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