# Issue Connecting to TiVo Service



## rlgillespie (Nov 26, 2002)

This issue first started back in October around the time TiVo rolled out the software update 20.7.4. The first time this happened, it took about a week with TiVo support to get the problem resolved. Nothing was changed on the unit itself. TiVo support push the software update while the Roamio was on the boot screen. Once Roamio updated to software 20.7.4, everything was back to normal.

Now the issue has returned. Roamio's last successful connection was on Dec 8th (TiVo Minis have no issue connection to TiVo Service) and I have tried numerous times manually forcing the connection and no luck. Sometimes it fails (C111) at the "Getting account status" while Connecting, other times it fails (C115) at "downloading" while Getting Info. Since the Roamio has been unable to connect, the program guide is now empty.

I have tried to cycling power to all network devices and Roamio. I have tried "Clear Thumb Ratings & Suggestions" and "Clear Program Information & To Do List".

Have a setup with (1) Roamio Pro and (3) Minis since 2013/2014. All (3) Minis can successfully connect to the TiVo service, but the Roamio's last successful connection was on Dec 8th.​


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Can you access the box from TiVo Online? Is your box's data correct (TDL, Guide, Channels)?


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## rlgillespie (Nov 26, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> Can you access the box from TiVo Online? Is your box's data correct (TDL, Guide, Channels)?


When I go to TiVo Online, it shows that my box is selected, but everything is missing (To Do List, My Shows, and One Pass). Guide and Channels are correctly listed.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

This sounds serious. I'm sorry, but I think you have done all I would have done short of wiping the box. But I have three boxes, so I could move the programs and not lose anything.


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## rlgillespie (Nov 26, 2002)

Joe, Thanks for the help.

I was afraid that wiping the box was my only option.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

rlgillespie said:


> Joe, Thanks for the help.
> I was afraid that wiping the box was my only option.


If you have enough space on your computer, there are several programs that could help. I have used -> Easier to use pyTivo but there are others.


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## rlgillespie (Nov 26, 2002)

I do have some space and I already have a program or two to help transfer shows. My only concern is after wiping box, that during setup, box has an issue connecting to TiVo Service. If box has an issue during setup, then I won't have anyway to watch TV. Decisions, decisions.

Right now everything works (streaming apps, live tv) the only issue with being unable to connect to TiVo service is the lack of program guide.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

rlgillespie said:


> I do have some space and I already have a program or two to help transfer shows. My only concern is after wiping box, that during setup, box has an issue connecting to TiVo Service. If box has an issue during setup, then I won't have anyway to watch TV. Decisions, decisions.
> Right now everything works (streaming apps, live tv) the only issue with being unable to connect to TiVo service is the lack of program guide.


I understand. I had the same issue once myself. It fixed itself.

If you are in no hurry, there is another alternative. Buy another Roamio on monthly service. I bought a used box on eBay for $45. I put service on it for a month to test Hydra. After the month was almost over I cancelled service and got my $15 back. I still have a known working backup that I can use for parts.

BTW, while I know you can't support a Mini with the built-in wireless, you should be able to have a Service Connection. Have you tried that? Just guessing now.


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## rlgillespie (Nov 26, 2002)

Funny you bring that alternative up. I was just thinking about that and looking at eBay.

The Minis do have a Service Connection.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

rlgillespie said:


> Funny you bring that alternative up. I was just thinking about that and looking at eBay.
> The Minis do have a Service Connection.


Does that mean that using wireless failed?

Mini working means one of two things: the Mini doesn't use what fails on its host or the host may start working if something happens.


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## rlgillespie (Nov 26, 2002)

The Minis have no issues connecting via Ethernet, haven't tried wireless with the Minis. I tried wireless with the Roamio and connection still fails with similar errors C211 or C215.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

rlgillespie said:


> The Minis have no issues connecting via Ethernet, haven't tried wireless with the Minis. I tried wireless with the Roamio and connection still fails with similar errors C211 or C215.


Don't worry about the Mini boxes since they work. Sorry to hear about wireless failing. I'm not sure what you can do now except start from scratch. Even that's not a 100% fix since it could be something corrupted on TiVo's end causing your box to fail. Sadly, I doubt there is anyone at TiVo smart enough to help. There are extensive logs inside the TiVo. Trick is finding someone who can understand them.


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## SteveD (Oct 22, 2002)

I'm having the same issue. I have two Roamio's, one hasn't successfully connected since Wednesday 12/20, the other since Friday 12/22.
Both boxes seem to fail at random stages, sometimes during Connecting, other times during Getting Info.
Internet Connection test works some of the times, but fails at other times.
My Premiere has no issues at all connecting.
All of my boxes are running 20.7.4.RC18.
According to the Info screen, only the service connections are failing, VCM connection seems to be working fine.
I only noticed this because one Roamio didn't record anything on Friday because of 'Power Lost', which is of course bogus since we were watching live TV all night.
I'm going to try going through Tivo Support, but have little faith they will be able to do anything but lose all my recordings.


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## das335 (Feb 8, 2006)

**** Red said:


> I'm having the same issue. I have two Roamio's, one hasn't successfully connected since Wednesday 12/20, the other since Friday 12/22.


I had similar problems with my Roamio box several days ago. I have three (3) TiVos (Bolt, Roamio, Premiere). The Bolt was connecting OK but the Roamio and Premiere would fail on the "Negotiating" phase.
I rebooted both boxes and the Premiere worked but the Roamio kept failing.
I remember doing the Test Connection option several times and finally I got a connection to work.
I doubt there is anything wrong on your side, probably just something with the TiVo servers.
I would keep trying to make a Test Connection (sorry can't remember where that option is right now).


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## das335 (Feb 8, 2006)

Well, so much for my advice. All three (3) of my TiVos are now failing to connect. I can get the test connection to work sometimes but the regular connection fails are different points. I restarted my Tivos, restart my router, nothing seems to help. I am having no problems connecting to the internet from any of my apps.


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## rainbow (Feb 8, 2008)

I think this is a problem on Tivo end. See threads on coffee house and help center. I thought this was a pblm with my router, of other things. But now I think it is all coming from Tivo side. Hope whatever it is, they fix it.


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## rlgillespie (Nov 26, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> Don't worry about the Mini boxes since they work. Sorry to hear about wireless failing. I'm not sure what you can do now except start from scratch. Even that's not a 100% fix since it could be something corrupted on TiVo's end causing your box to fail. *Sadly, I doubt there is anyone at TiVo smart enough to help.* There are extensive logs inside the TiVo. Trick is finding someone who can understand them.


Agreed that there isn't anyone smart enough to help at TiVo support. Prior to posting, I had already spent 3-4 hours on the phone with different levels of TiVo support. Their solution was to replace my unit and a cost of $200-$300, which I said no thanks, especially since I believe it is a problem on their end.


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## rlgillespie (Nov 26, 2002)

**** Red said:


> I'm having the same issue. I have two Roamio's, one hasn't successfully connected since Wednesday 12/20, the other since Friday 12/22.
> Both boxes seem to fail at random stages, sometimes during Connecting, other times during Getting Info.
> Internet Connection test works some of the times, but fails at other times.
> My Premiere has no issues at all connecting.
> ...


Good luck. Hopefully you have more success then I had, which was none.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

rlgillespie said:


> Agreed that there isn't anyone smart enough to help at TiVo support. Prior to posting, I had already spent 3-4 hours on the phone with different levels of TiVo support. Their solution was to replace my unit and a cost of $200-$300, which I said no thanks, especially since I believe it is a problem on their end.


I would try two or three consecutive service connections using Network, Service Connection. My boxes are working ok now after failing on the first try over the weekend.


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## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

Mine are working again. First connection makes a successful connection, but the second connection is needed to actually grab and load the data.


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## rlgillespie (Nov 26, 2002)

UPDATE
Finally, after 18 days of unsuccessful connections, was able to get my Roamio to connect to TiVo Service. It is great to finally have some program guide data & the port 37 error went away.

Thanks to everyone that provided suggestions and assistance - especially JoeKustra and kdmorse.

I used the TiVo Service IP address information provided by kdmorse in the thread Connection Failing 12/23/17 in setting a QoS Input & Output rules (Traffic Priority) on my router with the operation set to the highest priority setting and using my Roamio IP address and the two TiVo Service IP addresses. Once the settings were applied to my router, Roamio had successful connection.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

My Roamio Pro has had exactly *two '*successful' guide data connections since last May.

But the guide keeps populating out 11-12 days, shows keep recording, the last two updates to the system itself were successful, so I stopped worrying about it. I only found the issue accidentally because at one point about six months ago it reported that it hadn't had a successful connection in 30 days, but I have not seen that since, although *it 'fails' every single day*. My Minis continue to get daily updates successfully.

'Wiping' the drive by installing a fresh one did nothing to solve the problem, so I suggest that as a drastic last effort step, that one is not going to work for most people with this issue.

I'm going to try the router QOS suggestion to see if that allows for a consistent successful connection.

But it's VERY obvious now that the issue is at TiVo's end, and their stonewalling is maddening. I am reminded of the last ditch support response from Microsoft during the early Windows days: "Please try re-installing Windows...".


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## jilter (Oct 4, 2002)

Just found this thread after same issues myself currently.
Any known remedy - pretty scary to read this issue was three years ago.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

The problem, which started here in May of 2017, resolved itself *two years later* in April 2019, with me doing absolutely nothing.

It has been connecting successfully every day since April 2019 until January 2021, when it started failing again, and has subsequently failed every single day whether I force the connection or it does it itself. My four Minis continue to connect successfully daily.

As before, the hardwired network connection is fine - the diagnostics pass and I can stream Netflix etc. from the Roamio.

Once again, I only found out when I wanted to record something and it complained it hadn't connected for 30 days. If you force a connection from that complaint screen, whether the connection is successful or not, it seems to reset the timer so you don't hear about it again (for a while, anyway).

I'm certain the problem is on TiVo's end, but no way to prove it, and no solution is available as far as I can tell. The only symptom (aside from the 'Failed' report on the Network page) is that once it's done connecting and it starts to load the data, the starting can take 10 minutes, and the loading can take more than an hour, whereas when it's connecting properly, the starting is pretty much instant and the loading takes around 10-15 minutes (or even less sometimes).

In the meantime, I continue to have 12-13 days of guide data, and everything else appears to be working normally.

I'd be interested in hearing any theories or solutions.


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## jilter (Oct 4, 2002)

Interesting. I can not connect - even hard-wired.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

You mean you can't connect to the TiVo servers at all? It just times out or something? What happens when you run the diagnostics from the Network page?


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## jilter (Oct 4, 2002)

Preparing....Done
Connecting.....Done
Setting Clock...Done
Getting info....Connection interrupted.


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## jilter (Oct 4, 2002)

dougdingle said:


> You mean you can't connect to the TiVo servers at all? It just times out or something? What happens when you run the diagnostics from the Network page?


You mean Network Troubleshooting?
Please be specific which page you mean.

"Testing Internet Connection"
Preparing (Done)
Connecting (Done)
Disconnecting (Done)

In the above trial it takes a bit of time to disconnect, but it eventually does.
However, on the "Network Settings" page the forced connect stalls during "downloading"
and returns the error "Connection Interrupted".


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Yes, I meant Network Troubleshooting. You seem to be able to connect, and then it dies. I suspect TiVo is having server issues with the one you're connecting to, which forces the connection to be interrupted.

You can wait a few days, see if the issue is rectified, or you can call tech support and report the issue.

But unlike me, you never get the data (info), which means 30 days of that and your TiVo will pretty much stop functioning except for playing back shows you've already recorded.

I would start with a call to tech support.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

jilter said:


> Preparing....Done
> Connecting.....Done
> Setting Clock...Done
> Getting info....Connection interrupted.


What kind of internet connection do you have (cable, DSL, etc)? Back in the old days, failing while downloading the info was fairly common with DSL connections if the MTU (Maximum Transmission Unit) was set too high at the router. Most routers use 1500 as the default, but DSL should be set to 1492 to allow for the 8 byte header. If you're on a VPN you might have to crank it down as far as 1400 to avoid packet fragmentation.


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## jilter (Oct 4, 2002)

ggieseke said:


> What kind of internet connection do you have (cable, DSL, etc)? Back in the old days, failing while downloading the info was fairly common with DSL connections if the MTU (Maximum Transmission Unit) was set too high at the router. Most routers use 1500 as the default, but DSL should be set to 1492 to allow for the 8 byte header. If you're on a VPN you might have to crank it down as far as 1400 to avoid packet fragmentation.


I have a straight cable connection thru Xfinity.
Nothing has changed in my connection, and everything was working well until February 1.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

ggieseke said:


> What kind of internet connection do you have (cable, DSL, etc)? Back in the old days, failing while downloading the info was fairly common with DSL connections if the MTU (Maximum Transmission Unit) was set too high at the router. Most routers use 1500 as the default, but DSL should be set to 1492 to allow for the 8 byte header. If you're on a VPN you might have to crank it down as far as 1400 to avoid packet fragmentation.


Any idea why loading updated data might fail in my setup? This is the second time it's happening - first time, it went on for two years, then healed itself magically, ran fine for almost two years, then at the end of January (around same time as jilter) it started failing again, and fails every time now.

The hardwired 200/10 cable network connection is fine - I can stream Netflix on the Roamio no problem. It connects, downloads the data quickly, and then starts to load it about 5-10 minutes later. It takes it more than an hour to load to around 60-70%, then fails. But I still have 12-13 days of guide data, and everything seems to work normally otherwise.

When working properly, it starts loading the data immediately, and finishes successfully about 10 minutes later.


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## Tony Jacobs (Dec 12, 2020)

All of my Tivo's (4) stopped connecting back around the middle of February which I think is related to getting a new router on CenturyLink (a C4000XG). I took one of my Tivos over to my brothers house and it connected fine. (He's on Comcast). I suspected ports being closed but I don't see that any are (the port test passes). I see that this router has a MTU of 1500. My CenturyLink connection is fiber which communicates at 1Gbps throttled down to 40Mbps.
The connection fails real quickly when it gets to the negotiating step. I'm about to try using WireShark to try and see where it is failing. Tivo Online still works just fine and that's likely because it uses a different server. I talked with Tivo support on the phone and they said there is a know issue that could be related to my problem.

Anyone have WireShark tips or filter suggestions?


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Tony Jacobs said:


> All of my Tivo's (4) stopped connecting back around the middle of February which I think is related to getting a new router on CenturyLink (a C4000XG). I took one of my Tivos over to my brothers house and it connected fine. (He's on Comcast). I suspected ports being closed but I don't see that any are (the port test passes). I see that this router has a MTU of 1500. My CenturyLink connection is fiber which communicates at 1Gbps throttled down to 40Mbps.
> The connection fails real quickly when it gets to the negotiating step. I'm about to try using WireShark to try and see where it is failing. Tivo Online still works just fine and that's likely because it uses a different server. I talked with Tivo support on the phone and they said there is a know issue that could be related to my problem.


Well, at least there's a known issue...

Last time this happened, I got lots of suggestions to try a different ISP somewhere. I am normally hardwired to Spectrum Cable through a Ubiquity router and a couple of switches.

So I set my T-Mobile phone up as a hotspot, turned on wi-fi on the Roamio and connected through the phone. Made no difference, unlike in your situation.

Although my situation is different, as I outlined in my post #24 above. I connect, download, close, start to load the data after 5-10 minutes of just sitting there, and about 60-90 minutes later, at somewhere between 60% and 95%, it fails. It's like my guide database is corrupt or something. Last time, I tried deleting guide data to refresh the database, and all that got me is two days of limited guide info and several missed recordings after half a dozen failed loads before the guide fully populated again without ever actually finishing successfully.

Last time this happened, it lasted for two years before fixing itself...


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## blvugirl (Nov 15, 2007)

I’m having this same issue with my Roamio. It started 2/2021. I’ve spent more than 15 hours troubleshooting with Tivo and Comcast. They blamed locked ports on Comcast. Then said known issue and Tivo software engineers are working on it. The box finally started working and I received a call from tech support (Jiwan) saying it was resolved. Less than a week later I get an email from support saying it isn’t working again and to call. I hadn’t noticed since I still had 5 days on the guide. Several calls again and I finally spoke to a supervisor who said that some Roamio have this issue but it is with the box and not Tivo. They closed my case and are telling me I need to exchange the box and they will discount it to $199 for a new edge. If it’s a Roamio issue then why so many boxes having issues?! I’m furious! I said that the software engineers resolved it once before but now you are saying it’s a hardware issue with my box. So why could they resolve it once with a software fix and now it’s a hardware issue? I’ve been a loyal customer for over 20 years and on my 3rd box. I may have to quit them. This sounds like a class action lawsuit waiting to happen. They run software updates which makes our machines essentially stop working so they can get $ out of us for a new machine. I think their new software is not comparable with the hardware and they don’t want to pay up for replacement machines.


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## blvugirl (Nov 15, 2007)

A "known issue" they now say is our machine and we have to pay the exchange fee for a new machine. Yet it resolved itself for a few days last week and now not working again. They are trying to scam us into buying new machines.



dougdingle said:


> Well, at least there's a known issue...
> 
> Last time this happened, I got lots of suggestions to try a different ISP somewhere. I am normally hardwired to Spectrum Cable through a Ubiquity router and a couple of switches.
> 
> ...


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## Tony Jacobs (Dec 12, 2020)

They just ended up telling me it's not compatible with the C4000XG. They're too lazy to find the problem. I've asked CenturyLink to give me a different modem/router.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

blvugirl said:


> I'm having this same issue with my Roamio. It started 2/2021. I've spent more than 15 hours troubleshooting with Tivo and Comcast. They blamed locked ports on Comcast. Then said known issue and Tivo software engineers are working on it. The box finally started working and I received a call from tech support (Jiwan) saying it was resolved. Less than a week later I get an email from support saying it isn't working again and to call. I hadn't noticed since I still had 5 days on the guide. Several calls again and I finally spoke to a supervisor who said that some Roamio have this issue but it is with the box and not Tivo. They closed my case and are telling me I need to exchange the box and they will discount it to $199 for a new edge. If it's a Roamio issue then why so many boxes having issues?! I'm furious! I said that the software engineers resolved it once before but now you are saying it's a hardware issue with my box. So why could they resolve it once with a software fix and now it's a hardware issue? I've been a loyal customer for over 20 years and on my 3rd box. I may have to quit them. This sounds like a class action lawsuit waiting to happen. They run software updates which makes our machines essentially stop working so they can get $ out of us for a new machine. I think their new software is not comparable with the hardware and they don't want to pay up for replacement machines.


That is astonishing.

I continue to have the "Failed" problem on the Network page, but everything continues to work in that I have 12 days of guide data all the time.

Every once in a while (couple of months or so) I get an onscreen message telling me I haven't connected in 30 days and it won't record anything until I do. So I connect from that message (there's a selection to "Connect Now!"), and after that it doesn't bother me for another good while.

I wonder how much longer things will continue working. I have a Roamio Pro lifetime and four minis. If it stops working, I'm done with TiVo after about 20 years. I was thinking about stopping using it anyway (the TA is just too much of a pain) and going with streaming, but this will be the nail in the coffin after 20 years.

Time to have a serious look at alternatives.


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## jilter (Oct 4, 2002)

blvugirl said:


> I've been a loyal customer for over 20 years and on my 3rd box. I


So have I. Except I have had like 7 boxes over the years. Now why would we be silly enough to pay for another piece of hardware from this company? How about they give it to us and after 20 months of successful connections- then I will pay?
We need an aggressive attorney to have the issue.


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## johnbrown44 (May 11, 2015)

Agree about an aggressive, hungry attorney and a class action suit. This "not supported" BS is for the birds. Why can't they leave our older, working Tivos alone? I get that some apps may not work anymore. It seems youtube changes something every 6 months, requiring different software. I would be OK with losing apps, if it means they leave the sharing/whole house/TivoToGo and guide alone.

We paid big money for Lifetime Service, and they need to deliver it or be in breech of contract. That service includes a guide, and sharing, in most cases. I am OK that my Series3 won't use Tivo Online to download/transfer. That was something new, and not available when the S3 was sold. AFAIK. But don't deliberately cripple the previously working sharing functions. I suggest people with working TivoToGo and successful guides take the time to take screen shots of the pertinent pages showing the a,a,a,a, etc. Because they either break it with an unneeded upgrade, or deliberately to cripple older units, thinking that people will buy new units.

They need to stop forcing upgrades, make them optional. Don't create upgrades that cripple the hardware of older units. If someone wants to run Windows XP on their PC, that is their choice. Sure, they won't have the ability to run some newer programs, but the old ones will work.

I don't like the direction a lot of software and TV/video providers are going. Renting software, to insure a steady stream of income, legal, but count me out. Crippling working machines so users have to buy new, not legal, and those doing it need to be fined heavily.

How would it go over if GM told owners of 10 year old cars that carrying passengers and using the radio was "no longer supported," and removed the back seats & radios in these vehicles?


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## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

I have a Bolt, Roamio, and Premiere, all with Lifetime service, that I abandoned a year ago because of TiVo pulling this crap. We went straight streaming with YouTube TV and other apps, and an antenna with an OTA 4-tuner DVR attached (not a TiVo) that can be streamed to any TV in the house with the app. I haven't missed the TiVos anywhere near as much as I thought I would, and we've had several of them that we replaced with newer models as necessary since the early 2000s. That was a good almost 20 years, but not having to worry about hardware that breaks down, becomes unsupported, or stops working because updates are pushed, plus having basically TV everywhere, made it worth the learning curve.

I still follow along here hoping that TiVo might improve. But the direction they are headed does not seem to point to that happening.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

johnbrown44 said:


> Agree about an aggressive, hungry attorney and a class action suit.


I'm not a lawyer, but have participated in more than a few class action lawsuits as part of the class, and they ALWAYS turn out exactly the same - the law firm gets millions (literally millions) while the class members each get a pittance. And the larger the class, the smaller the pittance.

Because the less they have to do the more money they make, the attorneys are always anxious to settle and not have to go to court. So here's how I predict the class action suit would go: TiVo will offer a sum of money - let's say for the sake of round numbers $24 million. The law firm will take $8 million of that, leaving $16 million to be distributed among the class (all TiVo owners), so roughly $10 each. *Ten dollars each.* The law firm will be completely disinterested in talking about patches/fixes or anything else having to do with the actual problem, as the time that would take would cut into their $8 million.

Additionally, TiVo's lawyers will tell the judge that the class is really complaining about 10 year old (or even older) electronic hardware that is starting to break down due to age and obsolescence and being run 24 hours a day, and there's nothing TiVo can do to help except offer a discount on replacement hardware, which they have done.

So every TiVo owner would get ten bucks, and perhaps a coupon for $50 off your next TiVo hardware purchase. And the matter would be closed.

Hardly worth it, wouldn't you say? And the gear would still be broken.

I have no advice on how to proceed, except to say that a class action suit sounds good in the heat of the moment, but is ultimately useless in the long run to actually resolve any issues. And chances are reasonable that TiVo would raise fees to cover the $24 million they pay out in the settlement.

What is more likely to have some sort of impact is involving the FTC, whose actual job is to look into things like this. Although frankly, once TiVo's attorneys say it's a few bad seeds complaining about old obsolete equipment starting to fail due to wear and tear and running 24/7, it's likely the FTC will lose interest.

If TiVo is not interested in fixing the problem, it's just not going to get fixed. I'm pretty much resigned to that.

Am I the only one who continues to get new guide data despite never having a successful data update daily? I continue to have 12-13 days of guide data, even with failed downloads.


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## johnbrown44 (May 11, 2015)

dougdingle said:


> ...


My Roamio gets successful guide data/service connections, but it usually only goes out 12 days. Maybe that's normal, I've only been a Tivo user for less than a year. It seems a number of companies have discontinued "Lifetime" guides after 5 or so years, often rendering the machines useless. That's why I went with Tivo, I figured they would be around to support the DVRs for a good while. Very disappointed in what I am seeing and experiencing, as it seems to be a deliberate effort to cripple older hardware.

I agree with most of what you wrote. A better option, not that there are any great ones, would be the FTC, State Attorneys Generals, BBBs, and anywhere else to let people know of their shenanigans.

Class action lawsuits send signals to large corporations that their misdeeds are noted, and they will pay a penalty. How much it will affect their behavior is a different matter. It certainly can't be good for business. But perhaps you are right, they may decide to gamble on a lawsuit, and pay the fine, it may be cheaper than supporting the units.

If a company earns a lot of revenue selling "Lifetime Service," and it can be proven that they are deliberately sabotaging older machines, (start getting evidence, folks, I have) the value of their LS will plummet.

Perhaps their direction is streaming, and they will let the DVRs and guide die a slow, painful death. It's up to us to become a thorn in their sides as they cripple hardware via "updates."


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## jilter (Oct 4, 2002)

I appreciate the intelligent discourse. Especially about class-action being non-satisfying. So...if a hungry lawyer stands to make tons of money and the user base will not benefit monetarily, I am ok with that. There should be some consequence for their conduct. Tivo has always represented innovation, integrity and infinite pleasure for me. I have accepted the opposite is now true. But the internet is deep, and I suspect their sparkling reputation will be be destroyed rather quickly. Not sure how that is helpful for a company going forward.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Things have consistently gone slowly downhill since the original TiVo people sold the company. The guide that was implemented now looks like the breathless show and movie descriptions you find in the back of airline magazines describing the contents of the entertainment system - lots of breathless adjectives, not much actual description. TE4 is clearly an attempt to make the UI look a lot more like a cableco box.

My guess is, the new owners took a look around and found all these 'lifetime' users who generate zero revenue for the company, and they're not even remotely unhappy about having them upgrade with new hardware and services payments, or just leave.

It was a great ride for a couple of decades.


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## Amiga (Jan 22, 2007)

Roamio OTA on TE3 failing to download guide data. Doubt calling TiVo's support in the Philippines will rectify anything.


Rebooted
Changed Wi-Fi connection from my normal portable hotspot (Carrier-grade NAT) to my cell's built-in personal hotspot.
Connection interrupted
*EDIT*
After reverting back to my portable hotspot, I was able to connect and download successfully, but I'm still paranoid / skeptical this will last.


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

TiVo To Do list deleted scheduled recording today. Now most of my previously scheduled recording are gone. Guide is no longer accessible either. The TiVo guide virus is spreading. Updating does nothing.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Sparky1234 said:


> TiVo To Do list deleted scheduled recording today. Now most of my previously scheduled recording are gone. Guide is no longer accessible either. The TiVo guide virus is spreading. Updating does nothing.


Although I continue to get the "Failed" message on the network download page, I have had none of those symptoms. So far. And despite the message, my guide and ToDo list continues out for 12-13 days.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

johnbrown44 said:


> My Roamio gets successful guide data/service connections, but it usually only goes out 12 days. Maybe that's normal, I've only been a Tivo user for less than a year. It seems a number of companies have discontinued "Lifetime" guides after 5 or so years, often rendering the machines useless. That's why I went with Tivo, I figured they would be around to support the DVRs for a good while. Very disappointed in what I am seeing and experiencing, as it seems to be a deliberate effort to cripple older hardware.


This is completely untrue and an exaggeration.

There is zero indication TiVo is deliberately crippling older devices.

These are isolated network connectivity problems with a small number of users.

And yes, 12 days of guide data is normal.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

cwoody222 said:


> This is completely untrue and an exaggeration.
> 
> There is zero indication TiVo is deliberately crippling older devices.


Well, these are difficult things to prove, of course, but there have been more than a few posts about the 93 series Minis dying right around five years of age, for example. Those Minis all dying around the same five year time frame is the common thread in the several "My Mini just died!" threads.

I had two of my four Minis die within two weeks of each other, and magically, it was right around the five year mark give or take a month. As an aside, Minis have no moving parts. A device with no moving parts should last longer than five years.

I would say based on currently available empirical evidence that _"There is zero indication TiVo is deliberately crippling older devices." _may be too optimistic. There's some evidence that something is going on. Deliberate or not, the older devices like Roamios and Minis seem to be failing in areas controlled by TiVo's software updates, and according to support they have recognized that there's an issue with guide updates completing successfully on Roamios, and are offering small discounts on more current hardware instead of fixing the problem.

And here's the other thing: If there are 100 complaints about a device/manufacturer in forums such as these, it's a guess to determine roughly how many people in total are really having the problem since the vast majority of users never visit an online discussion forum about their toys, never post about problems, just move on. So if 100 people complain, it can be reasonably deduced that far more people are having the problem.

In the case of the TiVo, I can tell you that if I didn't have lifetime subscriptions and two of my four minis died and the main Roamio stopped getting successful updates, I would dump the entire system in a heartbeat.

Streaming options with high quality video/audio feeds have opened up in the last five years, and the cablecos that TiVo supports are being left in the dust with (for example) Spectrum's 8-11 Mbits/s MPG encoded trash. The advantage of offline content storage has waned over the last five years. For better or worse, my Roamio Pro is my last TiVo. When it dies, or if it's killed by a rogue update, after 20 or so years I'm done.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

But there aren’t even close to 100 people in this forum with the problem you mentioned.

The number of people with the Roamio guide problem here is like in the single digits.

I’m not familiar with the Mini issue but i have a A93 Mini running fine (with a Roamio).

It’s technology. It breaks. It sucks. Stuff happens. It doesn’t mean the big bad evil corporations are out to pull one over on you.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

cwoody222 said:


> I'm not familiar with the Mini issue but i have a A93 Mini running fine (with a Roamio).


Well, I guess as long as your setup is OK, all is fine. How old is that Mini? Anywhere close to five years old?



> It's technology. It breaks. It sucks. Stuff happens. It doesn't mean the big bad evil corporations are out to pull one over on you.


I'm an engineer. I understand the concept. But when support tells people that they know there's a problem, they're not going to fix it, and here's a coupon for $50 off on our latest product, people tend to get annoyed. Like me. I tend to get annoyed at that sort of 'support' when it's pretty obvious there's nothing actually broken on my hardware.

When they know there's a problem, the hardware isn't broken - the problem was created by sloppy (or otherwise) coding on some update. They did something to break it. And now they're trying to "pull one over" on those affected by trying to sell them stuff instead of fixing the problem.

I've had TiVos since the early Series 1. Along with a great deal of help from jmbach and ggieske, a few years back we developed the methodology for combining an internal and external drive to a single large internal drive while preserving all shows, something that had never been done before and TiVo claimed was impossible to do. It's all documented on this site. I'm not just some amateur end user.

In any case, since they have stated they won't fix it, when the Roamio dies, I'm done.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

dougdingle said:


> Well, I guess as long as your setup is OK, all is fine. How old is that Mini? Anywhere close to five years old?


I have an A93 that's 5 years 2 months old (older since it was a "renewed").

Scott


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

HerronScott said:


> I have an A93 that's 5 years 2 months old (older since it was a "renewed").


All four of mine were right around that age when two died within two weeks of each other. I posted about it, and the thread opened up with quite a few "Hey! Me too!"


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## johnbrown44 (May 11, 2015)

cwoody222 said:


> This is completely untrue and an exaggeration.
> 
> There is zero indication TiVo is deliberately crippling older devices.
> 
> ...


You are uninformed and don't know what you are talking about.

It most certainly is true that companies have abandoned providing guide info, after selling a product with lifetime guides. Not sure where you have been the last 20 years. Look around and do a little research before making disparaging accusations against me. My S3 going from a,a,a with sharing to i,i,i and losing sharing/tivotogo/whole house had absolutely _*NOTHING*_ to do with network connectivity. I have worked with networks for 25 years, nothing wrong with the connection. Something in their update broke my machines.

Support sounded just like you- "must be a network problem." "Sharing not supported on the S3." Really? Then why is it connecting and showing "successful," and passing all tests?

I finally got support to admit it was on their end, saying "you are missing some software, we will upload it to your machine in a day or so. And voila, in a day the Edges and Roamio were sharing again, with a,i,a,a, as opposed to a,i,a,i.

And a month later my S3 unit was sharing again, and i,i,i went to a,a,a. So I guess all my "broken technology" machines magically fixed themselves?

The argument can be made that it is not deliberate. I believe it is. That or ineptitude. Are you saying it is out of the realm of possibility to think a company would deliberately cripple/obsolete some functionality of a product in order to sell a new one? If so, I have a bridge for sale. Not sure about the 5 year mark. Lots of DVRs sold with "Lifetime" guide info have been obsoleted when the "evil corporation" pulled the plug.

Note that Tivo sells machines with "Lifetime Service," which includes the guide, and sharing, and whatever else was included with the "Service." It really doesn't matter if it is deliberate, bad code, ineptitude, or whatever, it is a breech of contract to sell a product with lifetime service, then tell the customers "sharing not supported" on a machine.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

johnbrown44 said:


> You are uninformed and don't know what you are talking about.
> 
> It most certainly is true that companies have abandoned providing guide info, after selling a product with lifetime guides. Not sure where you have been the last 20 years. Look around and do a little research before making disparaging accusations against me.


We are talking about TiVo, not other companies.

And I said nothing disparaging against you nor made an accusation. You, however, called me "uninformed" and said I "don't know what you are talking about". I said nothing about you at all. I commented about the info you posted, not your person.



johnbrown44 said:


> My S3 going from a,a,a with sharing to i,i,i and losing sharing/tivotogo/whole house had absolutely _*NOTHING*_ to do with network connectivity. I have worked with networks for 25 years, nothing wrong with the connection. Something in their update broke my machines.
> 
> Support sounded just like you- "must be a network problem." "Sharing not supported on the S3." Really? Then why is it connecting and showing "successful," and passing all tests?
> 
> ...


So if your feature broke, and then returned, how does that prove that TiVo is crippling devices? Doesn't it instead prove my point that it's a temporary, unintended problem? (network connectivity, or otherwise)

Your situation may prove that TiVo support is inadequate or that their software is unstable but does nothing to prove what you said - that they are deliberately "crippling hardware" and rises to the level of legal action.



johnbrown44 said:


> The argument can be made that it is not deliberate. I believe it is. That or ineptitude. Are you saying it is out of the realm of possibility to think a company would deliberately cripple/obsolete some functionality of a product in order to sell a new one? If so, I have a bridge for sale. Not sure about the 5 year mark. Lots of DVRs sold with "Lifetime" guide info have been obsoleted when the "evil corporation" pulled the plug.


Again, we're talking about TiVo, not what other companies do.

There's also quite a difference between companies announcing support is ending for certain legacy features or even sunsetting older products vs. what you're suggesting - that TiVo is surreptitiously removing features without notice and then denying that they have done so.



johnbrown44 said:


> Note that Tivo sells machines with "Lifetime Service," which includes the guide, and sharing, and whatever else was included with the "Service." It really doesn't matter if it is deliberate, bad code, ineptitude, or whatever, it is a breech of contract to sell a product with lifetime service, then tell the customers "sharing not supported" on a machine.


I'm not even sure why you're so angry with TiVo. You've said you've only been a TiVo user for less than a year. Yet you have an S3, Roamio and Edge.

You said your Roamio is able to receive guide data for 12 days which is normal behavior. (and that's the subject of this particular thread)

You had a temporary sharing issue on one of your three devices which corrected itself within a month.

Do you currently have an ongoing issue with any of your devices? If not, why such vitriol towards TiVo?


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## johnbrown44 (May 11, 2015)

"This is completely untrue and an exaggeration."

You basically called me a liar. _*THIS*_ is the reason I don't like to post in forums. Forum posters not comprehending what I write, then a simple post has to become 5 more posts explaining what I meant.

I told you it was not a connection issue, and why, yet you repeat that it is a problem with my machine. I provide evidence. As an electronic tech, I know when it is the machine/hardware, and I know when it is the software/firmware.

No vitriol, I just don't like being snowballed by support as well as those exhibiting sycophant-like behavior on forums, parroting support, with an incomplete understanding of the issue. Then when support admits it was a software issue on their end, said forum user STILL thinks the problem is with the user's machine. I'm certainly not the only one to complain about Tivo issues.

It's obvious to see you don't/can't comprehend what I have written. It might not be all your fault, perhaps I don't explain thinks thoroughly. Perhaps it is a comprehension issue on your part. Not for me to say. Maybe reread it, or ask someone to explain what I meant. I don't have the time nor inclination to bicker or explain every little thing I say on forums to people that seem to have a lot of time to kill, or don't understand what I write.

I will NOT be replying to you, so you are welcome to have the last word. Believe what you want.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Wow, way to take things personal. It’s a conversation about consumer electronics.

Bye.


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## jilter (Oct 4, 2002)

Going to bring my cable card in to Xfinity this week-end.
Please forgive the silly question...Without a cablecard installed, can one still view content already recorded on a Tivo?


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## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

Yes. I did the same and can continue to watch what's already recorded. 

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


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## jilter (Oct 4, 2002)

Thank you Toni for your reply.
I have spent the worst day.
There is no Tivo service stateside...fine. 
Just folks reading off a script pretending they can help you, but can not.
"I guarantee if you hook up the Tivo via Ethernet, it will work."
Yeah - no.
Also Xfinity apparently has no people to speak to in this country either. Including tech support.
I am so so frustrated.


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## jilter (Oct 4, 2002)

Interesting. I went to try guided setup.
It returned the message “Can not perform guided setup while Tivo is connected.”....(or something to that effect...)
After countless hours and calls and trying various approaches, I am convinced this box (some months ago) was in the middle of an update and got cut off.
Anyone have any suggestion of something I may not have considered....?


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