# Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Gnothi Seauton" 01/14/2008 *spoilers*



## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

I hope this show makes it, I'm really starting to dig it. Summer terminator kicks ass and I found the headless terminator amusing.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I really like this show.

It has no chance, especially with the writers strike.

Interesting how the fleshless terminator head (and other body parts) made it through.

Whose house are they living in?

I still don't get sending him to school. It's good for the plot, but it will just get them caught. I"d prefer a story in which they are moving from town to town every episode. I like that formula.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

This episode was not as good as the first one

But I'm in it till the end


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

I guess besides terminators they are worried about truancy!  BTW last nights rating was a 7.6 will see how much they lose tonight.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Summer Glau really is perfect in this role.


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## mrmike (May 2, 2001)

dswallow said:


> Summer Glau really is perfect.


FYP


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Summer Glau in a mini-skirt :up:


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> Interesting how the fleshless terminator head (and other body parts) made it through.


Yeaaahhhhhhhh. How are they going to explain that one.

Interesting how they are setting things up.
So now they have two bad Terminators running around Los Angeles and the one resistance fighter.

Although I did laugh when they tossed Summernator out the window.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

Turtleboy said:


> Interesting how the fleshless terminator head (and other body parts) made it through.





JYoung said:


> Yeaaahhhhhhhh. How are they going to explain that one.


Maybe I was reading into it something that wasn't there, but my interpretation was that after the explosion at the bank, the remains/rubble were sent to the scrap yard, and the guy who found the head was rummaging through the scrap heap when he found something interesting, so he picked it up and brought it home. Somehow, setting it down at his house caused it to activate. Then, it sent out a homing signal of some kind and woke his body up.

Of course, it's highly coincidental that it happened at the same time that Sarah, John, and Summernator (nice name) happened to arrive in L.A., but life is full of coincidences.

If it had been pulled through the portal, it should have been on the freeway with the rest of them when they arrived. They also made a point to remind us of the rules of time travel in the vault (and, of course, having them arrive naked), so it's hard to believe they would have forgotten them already by the second episode.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

If you subtract the five minutes or so when the nitwit son broke into his old house and met his mom's ex, I really liked this episode.

I kept wondering why Sarah didn't steal a tv or a playstation or something if she expected John to stay home and do absolutely nothing all day.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

getbak said:


> Maybe I was reading into it something that wasn't there, but my interpretation was that after the explosion at the bank, the remains/rubble were sent to the scrap yard, and the guy who found the head was rummaging through the scrap heap when he found something interesting, so he picked it up and brought it home. Somehow, setting it down at his house caused it to activate. Then, it sent out a homing signal of some kind and woke his body up.
> 
> Of course, it's highly coincidental that it happened at the same time that Sarah, John, and Summernator (nice name) happened to arrive in L.A., but life is full of coincidences.
> 
> If it had been pulled through the portal, it should have been on the freeway with the rest of them when they arrived. They also made a point to remind us of the rules of time travel in the vault (and, of course, having them arrive naked), so it's hard to believe they would have forgotten them already by the second episode.


They showed the head come through the portal, and picked up on the side of the road.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

I am really digging this show too!


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## packerfan (Jan 8, 2002)

This show has really exceeded my expectations.......it will surely be cancelled by fox.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

dswallow said:


> Summer Glau really is perfect in this role.


Is it me, or is she a lot more, um, womanly than she used to be?


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Is it me, or is she a lot more, um, womanly than she used to be?


She still looks pretty flat-chested to me.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

getbak said:


> Maybe I was reading into it something that wasn't there, but my interpretation was that after the explosion at the bank, the remains/rubble were sent to the scrap yard, and the guy who found the head was rummaging through the scrap heap when he found something interesting, so he picked it up and brought it home. Somehow, setting it down at his house caused it to activate. Then, it sent out a homing signal of some kind and woke his body up.
> 
> Of course, it's highly coincidental that it happened at the same time that Sarah, John, and Summernator (nice name) happened to arrive in L.A., but life is full of coincidences.
> 
> If it had been pulled through the portal, it should have been on the freeway with the rest of them when they arrived. They also made a point to remind us of the rules of time travel in the vault (and, of course, having them arrive naked), so it's hard to believe they would have forgotten them already by the second episode.


Close, I think, but not quite.

I took it that the rest of the terminator's body was, as you said, in a scrap heap containing the debris of the demolished bank.

But they showed the head tumbling through the portal that Sarah & Co. used to jump to 2007. It presumably landed on the side of the highway. The guy that found it and took it home was a trash worker picking up trash on the side of the highway.

So what happened was that the body has been sitting dormant in the scrap heap for 8 years. Then the head 'appears' in 2007, reboots, and is able to re-activate the body, I guess via some fancy dandy wifi.

What I didn't understand is how the body could 'see' without the head.

Anyways, I'm really enjoying this show and it looks to be a keeper for me. More drama and less action last night than in the pilot but still great over all. The scene with Cameron and the Hispanic girl leaning against the car was a terrific scene, and not even a word spoken. Also liked Sarah tossing Cameron out the window. I'm assuming Sarah's ex boyfriend (fiance?) is going to be brought into the gang and some point, and maybe the resistance fighter, too.

I suppose the writer's strike is going to be good and bad for the show.
Good because it has little competition. Not talking about just the same time slot, but in general... the more programming taking up peoples' time over various nights, the less chance they'll tune in on a *specific* timeslot. The show's decent ratings might be in part due to people desperate for *something* to watch.
Bad, because the show is just going to have to end when it runs out of their 8 or 9 episodes and people might not remember to come back, if the show itself even does.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Interesting that Summernator told Sarah about the cancer. Most definitely changes up the timeline and future events as she will now obviously get early discovery and early treatment. Loved that Sarah asked 'her' if she could do the medical checks (CAT scan) to which Summernator answered no.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

tivogurl said:


> She still looks pretty flat-chested to me.


I think a little more busty, and a lot more hippy. She used to be more Twiggy-esque...


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## cheerdude (Feb 27, 2001)

bdowell said:


> Interesting that Summernator told Sarah about the cancer. Most definitely changes up the timeline and future events as she will now obviously get early discovery and early treatment. Loved that Sarah asked 'her' if she could do the medical checks (CAT scan) to which Summernator answered no.


She answered no... but was she telling the truth?

Probably doesn't matter because Sarah is getting looked at.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

cheerdude said:


> She answered no... but was she telling the truth?
> 
> Probably doesn't matter because Sarah is getting looked at.


My guess is she can do some sort of better scan than what she was asked about.


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## doom1701 (May 15, 2001)

I don't know how I feel about this show. The first two Terminator movies (haven't seen the third, and I think that's a good thing) walked a fine line. They obviously aren't going to have a happy ending (in fact, they pulled the happy ending out of T2 to leave it a little more ambiguous), but they have a conclusion. You know at the end of two hours there's going to be a resolution, and the good guys will prevail.

I watched the first to eps of SCC last night, and just felt depressed. We're going to have a season (or half a season, or a couple episodes until the actors have to start improving everything  ) of them fighting and running and just getting out of deaths way by a hair, and then returning the next episode to do the same thing again. I'm all for story arcs (although I'm not yet convinced there is one for this show), but give me some hope.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

I doubt this show will be cancelled it is getting phenomenal ratings. Of course it has no real competition but that will at least buy it some time.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

The Terminator's metal head sitting there reminded me of that awful, awful scifi series Lexx.


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

I'm loving this show. A few of my favorite moments from last night's episode:

1. Summernator learning to look "natural" hanging out in the 'hood by mirroring/mimicking the body language of gang-girl while they were leaning against the truck.

2. Did anyone else notice the address stenciled on the door of the computer store John was checking out? You can see it as he walks out - the address was 1337. 

3. Tossing Summernator out the window.

4. Summernator killing El Finito - and being right about it.

And I absolutely agree that Summer Glau has "filled out" a bit - in all the right places - but she still moves like a ballet dancer.


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## doom1701 (May 15, 2001)

AJRitz said:


> 2. Did anyone else notice the address stenciled on the door of the computer store John was checking out? You can see it as he walks out - the address was 1337.


I was trying to figure out if that was an address--or the name of the store. Works either way.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

I missed the pilot  but this episode was good.  But I'll be very surprised if Fox doesn't pull a "BIH" out of it.


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## IDSmoker (Apr 11, 2004)

I may have called the significance of the Terminator's skull surviving the blast of the uber-gun in the first episode, but I wasn't expecting the direction they took it in.

I was thinking that the skull would be the only recognizable part of the terminator to remain in the vault after all was said and done. It would then be used to lead to the new Judgment Day.

I certainly didn't foresee them violating established laws/canon by having the inanimate, non-flesh covered skull of the Terminator follow them through the time bubble! That was just wrong!

It bothered me so much, that I wasn't nearly as troubled by the whole "_cat saliva reactivated Terminator skull remotely activates body, that was apparently able to self-repair well enough from the damage from the uber-gun that it could play headless biker while working to reunite with it's skull_" - thing as I should have been.

This series is still a keeper for me (after all, it's not like there's anything else on to watch), but I was really disappointed by these logic shortcuts.


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## scsiguy72 (Nov 25, 2003)

AJRitz said:


> 2. Did anyone else notice the address stenciled on the door of the computer store John was checking out? You can see it as he walks out - the address was 1337.


Sorry, I miss the connection 1337?

Edit:

OK I found it. Internet Slang http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Why did the head survive but not that sweet gun?

Why aren't people running amok throughout time using the time machine they left in the bank?

Why did the terminator need a fake head? Maybe he rigged it to his body so he could see through those eyes?

Are they going to buy some movie monster goo to replace their terminator's flesh so she doesn't look constantly beat up?


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## flaminio (May 21, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> The Terminator's metal head sitting there reminded me of that awful, awful scifi series Lexx.


Aw, I liked Lexx . As a "goofy" scifi show, it was a nice alternative to the overly serious shows that were on at the time, like Babylon 5 and Star Trek Voyager.

Of course, that "formula" was perfected by Farscape, but Lexx did come first...


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

Anybody else single-frame through the shot where the enemy terminating is evaluating Cameron? The meter on the left jumps up when he does the x-ray flash to see her skeleton.

Does the "unknown cyborg" mean she is a model unknown to him or just an individual he hasn't met?


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Why did the terminator need a fake head? Maybe he rigged it to his body so he could see through those eyes?


The eyes looked pretty clouded over. I figured using the head was a disguise so that the terminator body could walk around without looking like a decapitated zombie.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

vman41 said:


> Anybody else single-frame through the shot where the enemy terminating is evaluating Cameron? The meter on the left jumps up when he does the x-ray flash to see her skeleton.
> 
> Does the "unknown cyborg" mean she is a model unknown to him or just an individual he hasn't met?


I took it to just mean he doesn't know who she is. I think the scan was just the realization that he was dealing with a fellow cyborg. Up until that time, it probably thought she was another human. Once the scan revealed her to be a cyborg, its software changed to 'Evade' mode (as shown on its HUD) from "kill" mode as it's probably not supposed to do battle with another cyborg which would risk it completing its actual mission.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

I think eyes cloud over after a while when dead?


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## speedy4022 (Nov 27, 2000)

I see the headless terminator making it through the time portal as a flaw in the story. How did a head which has no living tissue make the trip when it was already stated only living tissue can travel through them? I don't think it is a big deal I am not that picky but you know the sci-fi nerds will make a huge issue out of it.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> Why did the terminator need a fake head? Maybe he rigged it to his body so he could see through those eyes?


I was wondering that myself. Perhaps as a disguise, but I guess if he was able to bio-engineer the body to be able to see through those eyes it would answer my question as to how the T-body is able to see without eyes.



vman41 said:


> Anybody else single-frame through the shot where the enemy terminating is evaluating Cameron? The meter on the left jumps up when he does the x-ray flash to see her skeleton.
> 
> Does the "unknown cyborg" mean she is a model unknown to him or just an individual he hasn't met?





Jeeters said:


> I took it to just mean he doesn't know who she is. I think the scan was just the realization that he was dealing with a fellow cyborg. Up until that time, it probably thought she was another human. Once the scan revealed her to be a cyborg, its software changed to 'Evade' mode (as shown on its HUD) from "kill" mode as it's probably not supposed to do battle with another cyborg which would risk it completing its actual mission.


That's pretty much how I took it. Perhaps the Cameron model is a newer one, and at the time this particular T-model was sent back, the Cameron model hadn't been invented yet.


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## Bob_Newhart (Jul 14, 2004)

Darn, I had recorded the pilot on Sunday and was planning to watch it this weekend. I didn't realize the 2nd episode would be on last night. Guess I need to check the schedule.


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## doom1701 (May 15, 2001)

speedy4022 said:


> I see the headless terminator making it through the time portal a flaw in the story how did a head which has no living tissue make the trip when it was already stated only living tissue can travel through them. I don't think it is a big deal I am not that picky but you know the sci-fi nerds will make a huge issue out of it.


They might make a big deal out of it...if they can figure out what you just said.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

AJRitz said:


> And I absolutely agree that Summer Glau has "filled out" a bit - in all the right places - but she still moves like a ballet dancer.


+1
I love watching Summer Glau move in this and Serenity because she comes across as so graceful.



DreadPirateRob said:


> That's pretty much how I took it. Perhaps the Cameron model is a newer one, and at the time this particular T-model was sent back, the Cameron model hadn't been invented yet.


Or John and the Resistance built the Summerator.
I wonder if we'll learn that she's been programmed with the memories/personality of someone close to future John.



doom1701 said:


> They might make a big deal out of it...if they can figure out what you just said.


That's been a key thing that's been bothering me about this.
They've made a very big deal about the fact that only living things can time travel and it's a big reason why the Terminators have to be covered with flesh.
To see the head just come through the portal like that is a fairly large disconnect.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

JYoung said:


> Or John and the Resistance built the Summerator.
> I wonder if we'll learn that she's been programmed with the memories/personality of someone close to future John.


You could be on to something - the writers have certainly gone out of their way to allude to the fact that the Riverator knows the future John Connor quite well, almost as if he personally programmed her.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not as good as the pilot, but good enough. Can anyone explain the title? Pun? Anagram?

The problem with the fleshless head hadn't hit me (even after they just came through naked in the pilot), but yeah. Now I'll try to justify it... First, the whole "living flesh" thing never made much sense. There's nothing magical about living flesh. It's just matter. Second -- how well do they understand this time travel technology, anyway? My impression from the first movie was that it was pretty experimental. Suppose they made this observation (people come through naked), but were wrong about the conclusion (only "living flesh" and things within it can travel)? What if the other stuff went through, but ended up at different times/places? (The head came through much later than the others, though it must've entered only seconds later than them.) Of course you'd still have to explain the separation mechanism.

Alternate explanation: How fleshless was the head at the time it entered the... uh... wormhole? Was it still burning off?


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## bsnelson (Oct 30, 1999)

AJRitz said:


> 2. Did anyone else notice the address stenciled on the door of the computer store John was checking out? You can see it as he walks out - the address was 1337.


I noticed it immediately, and what's even better, I have my wife trained! I rewound it, paused it and said "Nice!". It only took her a couple of seconds to start rolling her eyes. 

Brad


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

It's obvious there are a lot of Summer Glau fans because of Firefly, but no love for Lena Headey? She looks INCREDIBLE in this show. I mean WOW.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

wmcbrine said:


> Not as good as the pilot, but good enough. Can anyone explain the title? Pun? Anagram?


It's Greek for "know yourself," and a Ralph Waldo Emerson poem.



> The problem with the fleshless head hadn't hit me (even after they just came through naked in the pilot), but yeah. Now I'll try to justify it... First, the whole "living flesh" thing never made much sense. There's nothing magical about living flesh. It's just matter. Second -- how well do they understand this time travel technology, anyway? My impression from the first movie was that it was pretty experimental. Suppose they made this observation (people come through naked), but were wrong about the conclusion (only "living flesh" and things within it can travel)? What if the other stuff went through, but ended up at different times/places? (The head came through much later than the others, though it must've entered only seconds later than them.) Of course you'd still have to explain the separation mechanism.


It entered at the same time, but had such velocity from the gun's (plasma rifle?) energy blast it was flung pretty far away.


> Alternate explanation: How fleshless was the head at the time it entered the... uh... wormhole? Was it still burning off?


Bingo! This is the most probable explanation.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

balboa dave said:


> It entered at the same time, but had such velocity from the gun's (plasma rifle?) energy blast it was flung pretty far away.


Didn't it also come through at a later time? Or am I misremembering?



atrac said:


> It's obvious there are a lot of Summer Glau fans because of Firefly, but no love for Lena Headey? She looks INCREDIBLE in this show. I mean WOW.


She's cool and all, but I couldn't help thinking that Sonya Walger (also in this episode) looks a lot more like Linda Hamilton.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

I have a theory to help explain the robots head.

It's known you must have a human tissue layer to time travel. Perhaps, you CAN time travel without the human tissue, but you just don't land in one piece? Man, that is weak. I have no idea. I hope the producers have some article in EW next month explaining it.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

wmcbrine said:


> Didn't it also come through at a later time? Or am I misremembering?


It came through with the time bubble, but what might be confusing everyone is that it wasn't shown in the pilot, but during this episode's recap.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

One thing I've realized about this show is it cannot be viewed casually to enjoy everything it offers. Easily half of the questions asked by everyone in this and the pilot's threads have clear answers, but only if you paid complete attention to the show. I thought I was, but there's been a few posts pointing out some inside jokes I missed. And wmcbrine's guess that the terminator head did have flesh when it went into the bubble, but was burning off, was inspired. The producers and writers are packing a lot of information in a small amount of time, and seem to be trusting the viewers to keep up. 

I'm quite surprised the jokes have been almost completely overlooked or misinterpreted. From the pilot, Cameron looking at the bank's keystone, dated 1963. That should have clued everyone that the "safety deposit box" she referred to was the entire vault. Or the substitute teacher terminator's departing comment after attacking John, "Class dismissed." 

Maybe they've overestimated their audience. Or more hopefully, everyone can catch on and start paying a little bit closer attention. And instead of getting all hot, bothered, or even dismissive about, oh the horrors, departure from canon, trust that the writer's did have a reason for a given scene, and speculate as to what it was. I can understand not liking the choice, but to assume they got it wrong is well, even more wrong.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Jeeters said:


> The eyes looked pretty clouded over. I figured using the head was a disguise so that the terminator body could walk around without looking like a decapitated zombie.





Kamakzie said:


> I think eyes cloud over after a while when dead?


Yes. I meant that because the head was dead, the eyes had clouded over making them useless for the terminator body use, even if it had the ability to do so.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

balboa dave said:


> I'm quite surprised the jokes have been almost completely overlooked or misinterpreted. From the pilot, Cameron looking at the bank's keystone, dated 1963. That should have clued everyone that the "safety deposit box" she referred to was the entire vault. Or the substitute teacher terminator's departing comment after attacking John, "Class dismissed."


I love the little one liners they have Cameron toss out. Another one that comes to mind is when she was hit by the car in this second episode and told the people inside the car something like, "Please remain calm."

All nice nods to Arnold's one liners in T1 & T2.


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## smallwonder (Jun 13, 2001)

Jeeters said:


> I love the little one liners they have Cameron toss out. Another one that comes to mind is when she was hit by the car in this second episode and told the people inside the car something like, "Please remain calm."
> 
> All nice nods to Arnold's one liners in T1 & T2.


I thought the best line of the night was when Sarah turned to Summernator in the rebels' apartment, all of them facing the safe, and says "Do your thing, girlie." Cracked me up! The second best was her deadpan response to Summer telling her that John had just given her a diamond: "Good for you."

Lena Headley is tré cool in this role.


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## bubba1972 (Mar 28, 2005)

The human tissue rule was already broken in T2 when liquid metal guy time travelled.


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## bryan314 (Nov 17, 2004)

JYoung said:


> Or John and the Resistance built the Summerator.
> I wonder if we'll learn that she's been programmed with the memories/personality of someone close to future John.


My guess is Cameron is his daughter. Cam mentions that Sarah used to read to John (Wizard of Oz?) in spanish. That's something a father would reminisce to a daughter about his own mother.

Now the question is, was she bio, died, and had memories uploaded or did he raise a terminator as his own daughter?


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

wmcbrine said:


> Alternate explanation: How fleshless was the head at the time it entered the... uh... wormhole? Was it still burning off?


That was my thought. At least that's how I am going to justify it!


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

Of course, the head jumped out at me, too. No pun intended.

In my mind, I can justify it that it was sucked thru on the outside of the time bubble.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

bryan314 said:


> My guess is Cameron is his daughter. Cam mentions that Sarah used to read to John (Wizard of Oz?) in spanish. That's something a father would reminisce to a daughter about his own mother.


A daughter you could program to follow your orders, wouldn't that be great!


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Forget the head. Let's pretend that it has a believable explanation.
The terminator body is what I want to know about. How does it not get found in the bank? How did it not end up in a lab somewhere?


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> Forget the head. Let's pretend that it has a believable explanation.
> The terminator body is what I want to know about. How does it not get found in the bank? How did it not end up in a lab somewhere?


Agreed. The body lying around a junk yard for 8 years is the more eggregious error.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

It's interesting that they made this show the Sarah Connor chronicles, and not the John Connor Chronicles. She's the star, not him.

Also, I wonder when they'll meet his father Kyle, as a baby of course.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

scsiguy72 said:


> Sorry, I miss the connection 1337?
> 
> Edit:
> 
> OK I found it. Internet Slang http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet


Thanks for posting this. I way didn't get it...not geek enough I guess.

I'm not loving, but also not hating, this show. I really like Summer (been a fan since Firefly). But I don't get some of the actions of Cameron. At school she acted like a 'normal' teenager. Didn't really get any sense that she was a machine until she got shot. Then all of the sudden she starts acting/talking more like a machine...which is OK, I think it's entertaining, especially the one liners, but I don't get why she could act like a normal student, and then suddenly she acts like a machine?

I hope they don't rely too much on the machines fighting each other. That's already gotten boring real quick for me...how many walls do they have to throw each other through? I did enjoy Sarah tossing Cameron out the window...John's reaction to that was pretty funny.


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> It's interesting that they made this show the Sarah Connor chronicles, and not the John Connor Chronicles. She's the star, not him.
> 
> Also, I wonder when they'll meet his father Kyle, as a baby of course.


I kind of look at Kyle Reese in this series kind of like the character of Han Solo as he relates to the Star Wars prequels. He had a huge role in part of the story, but in the grand canon he's really not all that important. Remember that Reese was nothing more than a soldier who volunteered to go back in time in 2029. In fact, in T2, John indicates that he doesn't meet his dad until John's 45, which means that Reese comes into the story shortly before we see him in the original Terminator.

Of course, the changing timelines could change that, but I just don't see him as that crucial to the story.


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

hummingbird_206 said:


> Thanks for posting this. I way didn't get it...not geek enough I guess.
> 
> I'm not loving, but also not hating, this show. I really like Summer (been a fan since Firefly). But I don't get some of the actions of Cameron. At school she acted like a 'normal' teenager. Didn't really get any sense that she was a machine until she got shot. Then all of the sudden she starts acting/talking more like a machine...which is OK, I think it's entertaining, especially the one liners, but I don't get why she could act like a normal student, and then suddenly she acts like a machine?


My take on that is that she doesn't need to act like a normal person when she's around John and Sarah. She does need to act like a normal person when she's around other people. While she may be a learning machine, I'm guessing that acting "normal" does not come naturally.


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

serumgard said:


> My take on that is that she doesn't need to act like a normal person when she's around John and Sarah. She does need to act like a normal person when she's around other people. While she may be a learning machine, I'm guessing that acting "normal" does not come naturally.


She has been programmed to be a mimic. She was mimicing high school behavior. They are not in HS anymore so she is outside of her knowledge base. She is acting more like a machine as she learns new behaviors.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

The headless terminator made me think of reanimator. Walking around trying to get his head back. Maybe another inside joke. Maybe not.


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

serumgard said:


> I kind of look at Kyle Reese in this series kind of like the character of Han Solo as he relates to the Star Wars prequels. He had a huge role in part of the story, but in the grand canon he's really not all that important.


Let me take issue with that in part. Sarah Connor was rightly rebuked for not changing her alias. But why didn't she? Because the alias was... "Reese". She's still trying to hold on to him.

I loved John's line about him -- "he's always a hero, and he's always dead".

But yes (to Turtleboy), Sarah Connor has always been the star of the Terminator stories (not counting 3, which I haven't seen).


----------



## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

serumgard said:


> Remember that Reese was nothing more than a soldier who volunteered to go back in time in 2029.


Actually, John picked Reese. A long time before he was sent back. John gave him Sarah's picture so Reese would fall in love with her before his trip back.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Actually, John picked Reese.


I'm not sure "picked" is the right word. Future John knew that Reese was his father, so he *had* to send him back...

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Master Bra'tac...I thought it was good to see him again and the character was pretty interesting...


----------



## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> I'm not sure "picked" is the right word. Future John knew that Reese was his father, so he *had* to send him back...


Semantics. At any rate, it isn't like Reese volunteered to be johnny-on-the-spot while they were spooling up the time bubble, "who wants to go?"


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

balboa dave said:


> One thing I've realized about this show is it cannot be viewed casually to enjoy everything it offers. Easily half of the questions asked by everyone in this and the pilot's threads have clear answers, but only if you paid complete attention to the show. I thought I was, but there's been a few posts pointing out some inside jokes I missed. And wmcbrine's guess that the terminator head did have flesh when it went into the bubble, but was burning off, was inspired. The producers and writers are packing a lot of information in a small amount of time, and seem to be trusting the viewers to keep up.


I don't see very many questions answered at all. There are still a lot of gaping plot holes at the moment.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I watched both episodes last night. I went into it thinking bleh, terminator, but found myself caught up very quickly. I really like Lena and Summer they are a great team! 
I loved it when she was being questioned by the cop and Sarah pulled her aside and started yelling at her like a step mom! And the scene inside with the guys telling Sarah about 911 and such.

Little things about jumping 8 years - John's sort of knowledge of computers, but not enough. I bet he will soon have a laptop.

I did wonder where the empty house with furniture came from/was obtained.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

wmcbrine said:


> She's cool and all, but I couldn't help thinking that *Sonya Walger* (also in this episode) looks a lot more like Linda Hamilton.


I've gone brain dead. What role did Sonya have in eps 2?


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## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

astrohip said:


> I've gone brain dead. What role did Sonya have in eps 2?


She was Charley's wife.


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## kdelande (Dec 17, 2001)

DreadPirateRob said:


> You could be on to something - the writers have certainly gone out of their way to allude to the fact that the Riverator knows the future John Connor quite well, almost as if he personally programmed her.


And I noticed that Summernator placed her hand ever so gently on John's neck as she walked away from him at the table in one seen, like someone with affection for him.

KD


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

kdelande said:


> And I noticed that Summernator placed her hand ever so gently on John's neck as she walked away from him at the table in one seen, like someone with affection for him.
> 
> KD


She was diagnosing him.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Did they explain where and how they got the house?


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## kdelande (Dec 17, 2001)

IndyJones1023 said:


> She was diagnosing him.


A-HA, that would explain that then. Didn't put two&two together, thanks Indy.

KD


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## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> Did they explain where and how they got the house?


I'm going to guess Sarah bought it or is renting it. She told Enrique she had some money.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

betts4 said:


> I did wonder where the empty house with furniture came from/was obtained.





Turtleboy said:


> Did they explain where and how they got the house?


Didn't Summernator say that it was a Resistance safe house that had been set up specifically for this purpose?


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

It does seem like lazy writing in the sense that whenever they need to give her some extra help they can say John sent this or that back from the future and have it waiting.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

zalusky said:


> It does seem like lazy writing in the sense that whenever they need to give her some extra help they can say John sent this or that back from the future and have it waiting.


Or the opposite... something that could easily be solved that way not being solved that way.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

zalusky said:


> It does seem like lazy writing in the sense that whenever they need to give her some extra help they can say John sent this or that back from the future and have it waiting.


Bill: [sneaking around in the police station] Look, we left ourselves a note!
Ted: Whoah, that was nice of us!


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

zalusky said:


> It does seem like lazy writing in the sense that whenever they need to give her some extra help they can say John sent this or that back from the future and have it waiting.


You can always say that about stories with time travel involved.

If the writers are careful enough, I don't usually see it as a problem.

It's not lazy if it makes sense.

It would make sense that the resistance from the future would have safe houses in the past, if one of their main goals is to protect John Connor for 25 years.

-smak-


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

smak said:


> It's not lazy if it makes sense.


Just because it makes sense doesn't mean the writing is any less lazy. Basically all they have to do in this show is a variation of the buffy "supremely powerful weapon we only just found out about that will kill the supremely powerful being which is otherwise unstoppable".

It's a writing safety net. Any time they get stuck or write themselves into a corner with a situation, bad guy, etc. they can just claim to have sent someone or some thing back in time.


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## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

The safe house was the location where they got the stuff from the safe and found the dead resistance fighters, not the house they were living in.


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

The one thing that I cannot yet figure out is this:

What is keeping Summernator's (or any of the other terminators) skin alive? She has been active for over 73 days, if all there is to a terminator is robot under skin, then the skin would have surely decayed before John met up with her.

It was acceptable in the movies, as those terminators were delivered with some accuracy to their destinations and didn't survive long enough for the skin to rot.

T-1000 is another issue altogether, but as that model is not yet featured in the series, let's leave that conundrum alone, for now.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

Arnie said in T2: living tissue over metal endoskeleton. "Living" tissue. I'm sure they have enough organs in place to sustain the skin.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> Just because it makes sense doesn't mean the writing is any less lazy. Basically all they have to do in this show is a variation of the buffy "supremely powerful weapon we only just found out about that will kill the supremely powerful being which is otherwise unstoppable".
> 
> It's a writing safety net. Any time they get stuck or write themselves into a corner with a situation, bad guy, etc. they can just claim to have sent someone or some thing back in time.


Every scene in every action film is lazy then.

The reason the arrows didn't kill Indy in the opening of Raiders is because of lazy writing. I mean, how could they miss?

The reason that x bad guys machine gun fire didn't kill x good guy in x movie is because of lazy writing. One bullet HAD to have hit the good guy no?

There could never be any TV shows or movies if there is potential they may do something lazy. Wait until they do it at least.

-smak-


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

smak said:


> Every scene in every action film is lazy then.
> 
> The reason the arrows didn't kill Indy in the opening of Raiders is because of lazy writing. I mean, how could they miss?
> 
> ...


Yes, those are also examples of lazy writing.

It's better to complain now so we can later say "I told you so" and have smug looks on our faces.


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Arnie said in T2: living tissue over metal endoskeleton. "Living" tissue. I'm sure they have enough organs in place to sustain the skin.


And what sustains the organs?

At least in Robocop they had it eat baby food.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

smak said:


> Every scene in every action film is lazy then.
> 
> The reason the arrows didn't kill Indy in the opening of Raiders is because of lazy writing. I mean, how could they miss?
> 
> ...


Have you ever fired a blow dart, arrow, or machine gun?


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

Oddly enough, the actor who played Enrique in T2 was in Prison Break, but not reprising his role for this show.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Actually my post was probably lazy writing .
I think what I meant was there is the potential for lazy writing using the time travel as an easy way out. IE lets just destroy any believability AKA 24 some times. I also agree it can be fun such as the movie Frequency and other.

Yes I was thinking of Bill and Ted but its more fun to let us all contribute to the conversation.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Have you ever fired a blow dart, arrow, or machine gun?


I am blow dart champion for the eastern San Fernando Valley, 3 years running.

-smak-


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## doom1701 (May 15, 2001)

smak said:


> It would make sense that the resistance from the future would have safe houses in the past, if one of their main goals is to protect John Connor for 25 years.


Although someone else already pointed out that the "safe house" was where they found the safe, not where they are now living, I agree with you on the other points. And, if you think about it, to provide the resources necessary for this "past battle", John really only had to send back one person.

The person couldn't bring anything back (living tissue, yadayada), but if you send one person back to, say, the mid 1940's, with knowledge of world and business events, that person could take a few dollars he raised from menial labor and turn it into a massive investment portfolio--enough to fund the resistance pre-Judgement Day.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

smak said:


> I am blow dart champion for the eastern San Fernando Valley, 3 years running.
> 
> -smak-


You misspelled job.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

smak said:


> I am blow dart champion for the eastern San Fernando Valley, 3 years running.


Impressive. Poison class or tranquilizer class?


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

The engineer sent back could have been a covert Terminator with some parts embedded inside him.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

What's a Gnothi Seauton?


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## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> What's a Gnothi Seauton?


It's Greek for "Know Thyself."


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

allan said:


> I missed the pilot  but this episode was good.  But I'll be very surprised if Fox doesn't pull a "BIH" out of it.


The pilot is being re-aired Jan. 28 at 8 p.m. (EST).


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## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

One thing that bugged me:

When they came through the time portal, they looked like it wasn't that big a deal. When Reese came through, he was in serious pain. I had always assumed the process was pretty tough on the body (obviously not a problem for the Terminators).

Also, shouldn't it have left a big pothole in the road. One that would be red hot and burn their feet off?


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

IndyJones1023 said:


> The engineer sent back could have been a covert Terminator with some parts embedded inside him.


I don't think Cameron would have referred to it as an "engineer" in that case.

But there's no reason why it couldn't have been a human with some parts embedded inside him...


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> I don't think Cameron would have referred to it as an "engineer" in that case.
> 
> But there's no reason why it couldn't have been a human with some parts embedded inside him...


Well, a Terminator is a cyborg meant for killing. I would imagine a reprogrammed one meant for engineering would be called an Engineer.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Turtleboy said:


> You misspelled job.


If I had been drinking a Coke when I read that, it would have been spewed through my nose and all over my laptop.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Well, a Terminator is a cyborg meant for killing. I would imagine a reprogrammed one meant for engineering would be called an Engineer.


Looking forward to Kal Penn as "Engineer E-101"


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## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

nataylor said:


> One thing that bugged me:
> 
> When they came through the time portal, they looked like it wasn't that big a deal. When Reese came through, he was in serious pain. I had always assumed the process was pretty tough on the body (obviously not a problem for the Terminators).
> 
> Also, shouldn't it have left a big pothole in the road. One that would be red hot and burn their feet off?


Maybe it gets more painful the further they travel in time?

You must have missed the scene where they sprayed insulin all over the glowing parts to cool them off. 

(This is a joke for those of you not in the know)


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Amnesia said:


> I'm not sure "picked" is the right word. Future John knew that Reese was his father, so he *had* to send him back...
> 
> I'm surprised no one's mentioned Master Bra'tac...I thought it was good to see him again and the character was pretty interesting...


This might have already been mentioned but his character's name in this show was Enrique. Is this the same Enrique that Sarah and John visited in Mexico in T2? If so, IIRC in the director's cut of that movie, the T-1000 kills the entire family, including Enrique.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

Sirius Black said:


> This might have already been mentioned but his character's name in this show was Enrique. Is this the same Enrique that Sarah and John visited in Mexico in T2? If so, IIRC in the director's cut of that movie, the T-1000 kills the entire family, including Enrique.


Huh? Is there a Director's version that is vastly different from the Special Edition? I just watched the SE and not only does that not happen, but I don't see how it could.

Sarah peels away in the station wagon from John, "Uncle Bob, Enrique, et al in the desert. Enrique tells John and the T-101 Sarah will meet up with them later. John figures out it's to kill Dyson and he immediately sets out after her with Arnie. Not only do they not have time to kill Enrique and clan, but John is never shown upset during the night time car ride. You'd think he'd be pretty shocked if the Terminator had killed Enrique when he's trying to preserve life.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Huh? Is there a Director's version that is vastly different from the Special Edition? I just watched the SE and not only does that not happen, but I don't see how it could.
> 
> Sarah peels away in the station wagon from John, "Uncle Bob, Enrique, et al in the desert. Enrique tells John and the T-101 Sarah will meet up with them later. John figures out it's to kill Dyson and he immediately sets out after her with Arnie. Not only do they not have time to kill Enrique and clan, but John is never shown upset during the night time car ride. You'd think he'd be pretty shocked if the Terminator had killed Enrique when he's trying to preserve life.


I don't remember much about the movie at all, but I do know that you're getting things confused. He's not saying that Arnie's Terminator did the killing. Sirius Black said the T-1000 killed Enrique. The T-1000 is not Arnie, but is the Robert Patrick liquid-metal Terminator. Whether he actually did that, I have no idea.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Huh? Is there a Director's version that is vastly different from the Special Edition? I just watched the SE and not only does that not happen, but I don't see how it could.
> 
> You'd think he'd be pretty shocked if the Terminator had killed Enrique when he's trying to preserve life.


The T-1000 not Arnold. I admit my memory is a bit hazy and it has been a long time since I've seen the version I'm talking about but if you are in the DVD and you go into one of the menus and on your remote you enter 82997 or something like that it opens another version of the movie where I think this happens. It happens after Arnold and John leave.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

Oh weird. I've never heard of this.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Oh weird. I've never heard of this.


http://www.eeggs.com/items/17011.html


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> http://www.eeggs.com/items/17011.html


That only tells you how to do it. The only reference I can find to the actual scene is on IMDB.



> T2: Extreme DVD contains three versions of the film: the "extreme" (director's cut extended) version, and the theatrical version are on the first DVD. A special 1600x1200 Windows Media Video version is on the second DVD that can only be played on a VERY fast computer with DVD reader. The first DVD also has most of the deleted scenes accessible via the "interactive mode" as a part of the menu. Such deleted scenes includes "T1000 searches John's Room", "Alternate Older Sarah Ending", and tons of commentary from producer, director, special effects, composer, sound editor, and more. There are even storyboards for the various sequences that never made it to film, such as the "soldiers enter Skynet room found time machine", "alternate dream where playground is a launch facility", *the "T1000 found Salceda camp" scene*, and more.


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103064/alternateversions

But it isn't described at all.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

flaminio said:


> Aw, I liked Lexx . As a "goofy" scifi show, it was a nice alternative to the overly serious shows that were on at the time, like Babylon 5 and Star Trek Voyager.
> 
> Of course, that "formula" was perfected by Farscape, but Lexx did come first...


And in every episode Zev *had* to crawl through some tubes (they should have used more Jeffrey's Tubes in ST:TOS, while they had the old unis).


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Sherminator said:


> The one thing that I cannot yet figure out is this:
> 
> What is keeping Summernator's (or any of the other terminators) skin alive? She has been active for over 73 days, if all there is to a terminator is robot under skin, then the skin would have surely decayed before John met up with her.
> 
> ...





IndyJones1023 said:


> Arnie said in T2: living tissue over metal endoskeleton. "Living" tissue. I'm sure they have enough organs in place to sustain the skin.


It's living tissue as in it can heal as well.
In T2, when Sarah is pulling the bullets from Arnie's T-800, she asks him if the bullet holes will heal.
Arnie says that they will with time and Sarah comments "Good, otherwise it will be tough for you to pass for human."

So given time, the flesh will eventually heal.
Although I can't see the flesh coming back after it's been totally seared off.

Also, was Robert Patrick's T-1000 covered in flesh when he was sent back and he discarded it when he killed the first cop?


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Turtleboy said:


> You misspelled job.


... away

(OK, who gets that reference?)


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

nataylor said:


> It's Greek for "Know Thyself."


I thought it was Greek for "google.com".


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> You misspelled job.


And left out receiving.

-smak-


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## Cue-Ball (Oct 8, 2002)

I somewhat enjoyed the first episode of this series, but the second episode was pretty much a shark jump for me. There are just too many breaks with T1/2 continuity and too many "how the hell could that happen" moments. They've all been discussed here, but the metal head getting through the time portal was a biggie for me. Sarah, John, and Summer all lose their clothing, their gun, etc. and come through naked, but the non-flesh covered head comes through just fine? Worse than that was the headless terminator body being able to navigate around its surroundings, decapitate a guy, put the guys head on top as a disguise, then find its way to its own dismembered head which was picked up by a side of the road trash bagger. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. How did the body get from the bank to the trash heap? Didn't anyone wonder what the hell tore open a vault door like a sardine can? Didn't anyone wonder about a time machine setup in one of the safe deposit boxes? There are just way too many things here that are either glossed over or contradict canon.

I won't be bothering with future episodes. Burn in hell, Fox, for ruining (on the second episode, no less!) what could have been a fantastic show.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Cue-Ball said:


> I somewhat enjoyed the first episode of this series, but the second episode was pretty much a shark jump for me. There are just too many breaks with T1/2 continuity and too many "how the hell could that happen" moments. They've all been discussed here, but the metal head getting through the time portal was a biggie for me. Sarah, John, and Summer all lose their clothing, their gun, etc. and come through naked, but the non-flesh covered head comes through just fine? Worse than that was the headless terminator body being able to navigate around its surroundings, decapitate a guy, put the guys head on top as a disguise, then find its way to its own dismembered head which was picked up by a side of the road trash bagger. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. How did the body get from the bank to the trash heap? Didn't anyone wonder what the hell tore open a vault door like a sardine can? Didn't anyone wonder about a time machine setup in one of the safe deposit boxes? There are just way too many things here that are either glossed over or contradict canon.
> 
> I won't be bothering with future episodes. Burn in hell, Fox, for ruining (on the second episode, no less!) what could have been a fantastic show.


While I understand your frustration with the fleshless head getting through the time portal and the ensuing stupidity of the headless robot finding its way to the head.

However, I think the latter half of your rant can be explained if we assume that the bank (or at least the vault) was completely destroyed in the wake of the plasma gun and the time bubble. If that's the case, it's not surprising that nobody found the headless robot or the time-travel equipment. They were just part of the rubble of the explosion that destroyed the bank, and they were probably scooped up by a front-end loader and placed in a dump truck.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

I already assumed the bank was destroyed, because they seem to have built a road where it used to be.

As for the headless terminator walking around, why not? There's no reason its sensory equipment need be confined to its head.

And, "Didn't anyone wonder about a time machine setup in one of the safe deposit boxes?" No, because it's a safe deposit box. They don't open them.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

wmcbrine said:


> As for the headless terminator walking around, why not? There's no reason its sensory equipment need be confined to its head.


Indeed - as evidenced by Cameron doing a sensory scan of John using the tips of her fingertips. The only thing that is clearly in the T-800's (if he's the same model as Arnie) skull is the ocular senses, but I'm sure that cyborgs have other ways of navigating.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Indeed - as evidenced by Cameron doing a sensory scan of John using the tips of her fingertips. The only thing that is clearly in the T-800's (if he's the same model as Arnie) skull is the ocular senses, but I'm sure that cyborgs have other ways of navigating.


And the CPU.


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## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

IndyJones1023 said:


> And the CPU.


Redundant coprocessors, baby.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

IndyJones1023 said:


> And the CPU.


Are we sure about that? I can't remember one way or the other whether the "brain" of the Terminator was actually in the head.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Are we sure about that? I can't remember one way or the other whether the "brain" of the Terminator was actually in the head.


Yes. There was a big scene in T2 where they removed it.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

nataylor said:


> Redundant coprocessors, baby.


Two of them.

With a holster.


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## Cue-Ball (Oct 8, 2002)

wmcbrine said:


> I already assumed the bank was destroyed, because they seem to have built a road where it used to be.
> 
> As for the headless terminator walking around, why not? There's no reason its sensory equipment need be confined to its head.
> 
> And, "Didn't anyone wonder about a time machine setup in one of the safe deposit boxes?" No, because it's a safe deposit box. They don't open them.


Either the bank was destroyed as/after our three heroes made their jump to the future or it was not.

If the bank was destroyed, then how did the terminator's headless body survive without being found? There were people in the bank and unless everything was pulverized (and even if it were), they'd be searching for remains. Especially the remains of two fugitives that are wanted for murder and all sorts of other crimes.

If the bank was not destroyed, then there would have to be some sort of inquiry about the vault door, the time machine, the possible contents of all the open safe deposit boxes, and the big metal body sitting on the floor of the vault.

I also think there is ample evidence from the first two movies that not only does the terminator body not have any optical equipment with which to see it's way around, but it also only has one CPU which resides in the head and one power supply which resides in the chest (lots of supporting evidence for this in T2). Separating the head/cpu and the chest/PSU should render the unit inoperable. Neither part should even be able to work at all without the other, much less get up, walk around, and travel to reunite.

This series has taken most of what we know about the terminator universe and thrown it out the window.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

Cue-Ball said:


> This series has taken most of what we know about the terminator universe and thrown it out the window.


You say that like it's a bad thing. 

I say, it's turned a basic concept, one or two terminators coming to present time, into a more feature rich world of planning and preparation. This series obviously can't match the money thrown at the special effects of the movies, so if they make use of a more intricate plot, and actually use acting as an asset, bring it on. After all, your sig line is "It's time for a change."


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## mrmike (May 2, 2001)

Everything they do modifies the timeline. Everything that happened in the Terminator movies? It modified the timeline. The TV series is obviously derived from a version of the timeline where Terminators have empathy, redundant CPUs and classical ballet training.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Yes. There was a big scene in T2 where they removed it.


Figures - it's been a good 10 years (if not longer) since I've seen T2.


----------



## needo (Jul 9, 2003)

Cue-Ball said:


> This series has taken most of what we know about the terminator universe and thrown it out the window.


Wow! I would hate to watch any TV show or movie with you. How do you get any possible enjoyment out of any thing while you are busy picking it apart to the smallest detail?


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

These are not the same Terminator's we saw in T1 & T2. Judgement day was stopped, and moved back 15 odd years. The technology that Dyson found, and used to create Skynet is not the same technology that whoever created the new Skynet used. It could have been 50 years more advanced then what Dyson had. We don't really know the capabilities of these Terminators, so judging what they can or can't do based on T1 & T2 is not really wise.

Copout, maybe. But I'm buying it 

-smak-


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

The other thing about the headless body is, it was completely unnecessary. Why does that terminator need to exist still? Are we supposed to be afraid of that particular robot for some reason? I find the "other" terminator, the one waiting to ambush the "resistence" scarier looking. There could easily be another terminator of the same model who found the head and "downloaded" the memories in the past. Why did they even bother with this dude?


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Yes. There was a big scene in T2 where they removed it.


Yeah, but that isn't affected by this show because the body was completly inanimate until the head powered back up. Then it apparently communicated to the body wirelessly to control it.

This supports the brain in the head. Also the entire system seems to have the ability to communicte wirelessly.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

smak said:


> These are not the same Terminator's we saw in T1 & T2. Judgement day was stopped, and moved back 15 odd years. The technology that Dyson found, and used to create Skynet is not the same technology that whoever created the new Skynet used. It could have been 50 years more advanced then what Dyson had. We don't really know the capabilities of these Terminators, so judging what they can or can't do based on T1 & T2 is not really wise.
> 
> Copout, maybe. But I'm buying it
> 
> -smak-


Good point, the T2 terminator was a result of Dyson design. These new ones are different design and dont require to have the brain in the head either!


----------



## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Yes. There was a big scene in T2 where they removed it.


I don't remember that. The CPI they threw into the molten metal was the one that came from Cyberdyne, along with the piece of the arm. The CPU chip in the terminator was destroyed by lowering him into the molten metal with the winch.


----------



## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

mrdbdigital said:


> I don't remember that. The CPI they threw into the molten metal was the one that came from Cyberdyne, along with the piece of the arm. The CPU chip in the terminator was destroyed by lowering him into the molten metal with the winch.


They removed Arnie's chip and switched it from read-only to write-access so he could learn. They then reinstalled it.


----------



## Cereal_Killer (Jan 5, 2007)

Turtleboy said:


> You misspelled job.


Ha! I just got that! (I'm kinda slow).


----------



## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

wmcbrine said:


> And, "Didn't anyone wonder about a time machine setup in one of the safe deposit boxes?" No, because it's a safe deposit box. They don't open them.


But they will move them around. Anybody here put their own padlock on the metal box.


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

needo said:


> Wow! I would hate to watch any TV show or movie with you. How do you get any possible enjoyment out of any thing while you are busy picking it apart to the smallest detail?


In all fairness, these are really big details. Some people can watch a movie like T1 or T2 and not consider how the movie presents the mechanics and physics of Terminators. Other people are all about details like those.

I'm somewhere in between. I would much prefer they write this TV show with some fair amount of respect to the first 2 movies.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> The other thing about the headless body is, it was completely unnecessary. Why does that terminator need to exist still? Are we supposed to be afraid of that particular robot for some reason? I find the "other" terminator, the one waiting to ambush the "resistence" scarier looking. There could easily be another terminator of the same model who found the head and "downloaded" the memories in the past. Why did they even bother with this dude?


No Terminator in this timeline is programmed to kill John Connor. It wasn't their purpose. Sarah even said that if one of them passed John in the street, they would walk right by.

That Terminator's job is to kill John Connor, and without him, there'd be no Terminator chasing John Connor which is pretty much the main storyline of every Terminator story.

-smak-


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

macquariumguy said:


> I'm somewhere in between. I would much prefer they write this TV show with some fair amount of respect to the first 2 movies.


I have a hunch that they are doing just that, and that the complaints are the result of viewers not yet understanding what's going on.

I think it's very, very premature to accuse the writers of this show of much of anything. We just haven't seen enough to judge.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

smak said:


> No Terminator in this timeline is programmed to kill John Connor. It wasn't their purpose. Sarah even said that if one of them passed John in the street, they would walk right by.
> 
> That Terminator's job is to kill John Connor, and without him, there'd be no Terminator chasing John Connor which is pretty much the main storyline of every Terminator story.


Not quite. I believe that Cameron said that no Terminator in this timeline (2007) knows what John looks like, so if it passed him on the street it would walk right on by. However, once it found out who he was it was certainly try to kill him.


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Not quite. I believe that Cameron said that no Terminator in this timeline (2007) knows what John looks like, so if it passed him on the street it would walk right on by. However, once it found out who he was it was certainly try to kill him.


I was just about to post the same thing, but you just said it for me.

The 1999 (?) terminator is important because it knows exactly what John Connor looks like. It itself didn't know until it was able to ID him when taking attendance in the classroom.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Jeeters said:


> I was just about to post the same thing, but you just said it for me.
> 
> The 1999 (?) terminator is important because it knows exactly what John Connor looks like. It itself didn't know until it was able to ID him when taking attendance in the classroom.


It's not just that, his job is to look for John and kill him.

While the 2007 Terminator's would kill John if they knew it was John,they aren't looking for him. Big difference.

If I remember in T2, didn't the T1000 find a picture of John, and then figure out where he was. And then he went to the arcade showing John's picture around.

I don't think they came back in time with the knowledge of what John looked like.

-smak-


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

allan said:


> I missed the pilot  but this episode was good.  But I'll be very surprised if Fox doesn't pull a "BIH" out of it.





Bierboy said:


> The pilot is being re-aired Jan. 28 at 8 p.m. (EST).


I noticed this morning it is in Amazon Unbox free downloads section on Tivo.:up:


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

steve614 said:


> I noticed this morning it is in Amazon Unbox free downloads section on Tivo.:up:


Unfortunately, it's not HD and has no closed captioning :down::down::down:


----------



## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

IndyJones1023 said:


> They removed Arnie's chip and switched it from read-only to write-access so he could learn. They then reinstalled it.


Was that scene shown in the theatrical release, or re-added for a DVD release? because I sure don't remember it. I'm assuming it is shown in a later version DVD release? Maybe the T2 special edition?


----------



## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

mrdbdigital said:


> Was that scene shown in the theatrical release, or re-added for a DVD release? because I sure don't remember it. I'm assuming it is shown in a later version DVD release? Maybe the T2 special edition?


I just watched the special edition, so I don't know how much of that was in the theatrical release.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

mrdbdigital said:


> Was that scene shown in the theatrical release, or re-added for a DVD release? because I sure don't remember it. I'm assuming it is shown in a later version DVD release? Maybe the T2 special edition?


Yes, this is in the special edition, not in the theatrical version. It was a a pretty interesting scene for how it was shot - the mirror image was played by Linda Hamilton's twin sister (she was also in the scenes from the final battle in the end of the movie, where the eveil Terminator is impersonating Sarah Connor), but didn't add much to the movie other than that bit of minutiae about how the Terminator can now learn.


----------



## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> They were just part of the rubble of the explosion that destroyed the bank, and they were probably scooped up by a front-end loader and placed in a dump truck.


Considering that the rubble has the contents of a bank vault, you'd think it would be picked over very thoroughly to retrieve the customer's safe deposit box contents.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

I finally got to watch this, and I was thinking about the scene where they picked up Cameron, put her in the chair, and tossed her out the window...

Shouldn't a Terminator be REALLY heavy, like twice or three times as much as Summer Glau weighs? I mean if John was carrying Summer around, it'd be like carrying a sack of potatoes, but carrying Cameron should be tougher.

Anyway, just my thought. You guys covered the whole Terminator head and such. 

Greg


----------



## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

If you're building a robot to be an analog of a human, and use it for infiltration purposes, it would make sense to make it about the same mass as a human. So they must be built of light-weight, but very strong, alloys.


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

nataylor said:


> So they must be built of light-weight, but very strong, alloys.


Unobtainium.


----------



## Mars Rocket (Mar 24, 2000)

I'm actually thinking it's better to ave the 1999 terminator one of the ones looking for them now, as opposed to having multiple new terminators walking around. If there are no limits on how many terminators Skynet can send back in time then the show would be over pretty quickly as the army of terminators swept through southern CA looking for Sarah and John.

Although to be honest, finding somebody who's not using credit cards and such would probably be pretty hard.


----------



## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

I think that a lot of people have misunderstood what this timeline is, and think this series replaces T3. It does not, at least in the sense that those events never happened and have no consequence.

Yes, this story begins right after where T2 left off, but the incursion from the future is no longer based on the events resulting after the end of T1, as T2 was. It is now based on the consequences of T3, which in turn was based on the events from T2. Confused yet? Basically, I believe if anything, this series should be considered as T4, but with the twist only possible in the inherent illogic* of time travel in that it starts before T3.

My primary clue is Cameron tells Sarah that, in Cameron's timeline, Sarah died from cancer on a specific date, which happened in T3. As to exactly what the results of the T3 timeline are after the movie ended, well, we're just learning that now, aren't we. It's an entirely new playing field, as it were. The only constant I can think of, is Sarah still has, or will soon get, cancer, and John is still the future leader of humanity.

This means everything can be different without changing canon. So if the robots are now different, so what? It's allowed. They're evolved. If there is now more than one terminator, with different missions than killing John, or Sarah, or whoever, the more the merrier. Bring 'em on. If the future resistance is now smarter, with more complex strategies and more intricate planning, good for them, and good for this series.




*illogic is probably not a real word now, but it's from the future!


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

So who is the governor of California in this reality?


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Turtleboy said:


> So who is the governor of California in this reality?


Sylvester Stallone...


----------



## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> So who is the governor of California in this reality?


Sylvester Stallone, of course. 



*edit* DOH! beaten by one minute!


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

balboa dave said:


> I'm quite surprised the jokes have been almost completely overlooked or misinterpreted. From the pilot, Cameron looking at the bank's keystone, dated 1963. That should have clued everyone that the "safety deposit box" she referred to was the entire vault. Or the substitute teacher terminator's departing comment after attacking John, "Class dismissed."
> 
> Maybe they've overestimated their audience.


Or maybe we got it, but didn't think it was funny enough or clever enough to bother posting about


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

IndyJones1023 said:


> She was diagnosing him.


But the important thing about that scene is how _John_ reacted. _He_ obviously didn't realize she was diagnosing him...


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

balboa dave said:


> I think that a lot of people have misunderstood what this timeline is, and think this series replaces T3.


They may have been confused by the producers saying that this series replaces T3...


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

nataylor said:


> If you're building a robot to be an analog of a human, and use it for infiltration purposes, it would make sense to make it about the same mass as a human. So they must be built of light-weight, but very strong, alloys.





macquariumguy said:


> Unobtainium.


Nah. Obviously some kind of carbon nanotech.

After all, isn't everything?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

vman41 said:


> Considering that the rubble has the contents of a bank vault, you'd think it would be picked over very thoroughly to retrieve the customer's safe deposit box contents.


Not to mention the fact that they'd be looking for evidence of how the explosion happened and bodies, so of course they'd go through the rubble with a fine-toothed comb, but I just chose to gloss over that part.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> They may have been confused by the producers saying that this series replaces T3...


Citation? Because I'm saying that the T3 events still happened, just not to THIS Sarah Conner.

From The FutonCritic Interview, Brian Ford Sullivan:


> What made you decide to set the series between "T2" and "T3?"


James Middleton:


> Well, I developed and worked on the movie "Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines." And after that movie was released, I felt like I really - as a fan of the franchise - I really wanted to see Sarah again. And the idea of seeing her on a television show was even more interesting to me because you get to see more of what makes Sarah an iconic character. And I was intrigued with the dramatic question of "What happen to Sarah after the events of 'T2?' What happened when she left that boundary? What's in store?" So that's how the process started.


----------



## TiVo Bum (Nov 6, 2004)

balboa dave said:


> Citation? Because I'm saying that the T3 events still happened, just not to THIS Sarah Conner.


How bout this?
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20170519,00.html



> You don't have to be a self-aware supercomputer to spot the obvious temporal paradox in all of the above. In 2003's Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines, it was revealed that Sarah Connor had died of leukemia. Also, at the end of T3, civilization ends in a nuclear holocaust. But pay no attention to such minor metaphysical technicalities (although Connor's cancer will be addressed in episode 2). ''This show completely diverges from the T3 timeline,'' explains consulting producer James Middleton, waving away the contradictions. ''We're not trying to mesh the mythology of the movies with the mythology of the TV show. In T2 there's a famous line: 'There's no fate but what we make for ourselves.' So what we've done in the pilot is make a new fate for Sarah by giving her an escape hatch in the form of a time machine that brings her to [2007]. Essentially, this show is our version of T3.''


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

http://tv.ign.com/articles/808/808045p1.html...

"The question of continuity between the films and the series was brought up, and executive producer Josh Friedman reiterated what he told us about the series, which picks up after Terminator 2. "When we first started this, people said, 'Oh, this takes place between T2 and T3, and I think that was incorrect. This really is, as far as I'm concerned, T3. I mean, this is a continuation of what I would call the Sarah Connor trilogy. So I think anything that happens after T2 is fair game for us. And I think the ending of T2 -- killing Cyberdyne, killing Miles Dyson -- sort of changes the timeline for anything in the future." "

http://tv.ign.com/articles/798/798086p1.html

IGN: "Are you working within the continuity of the Terminator movies, specifically Terminator 3?"

Friedman: "We're gonna go off on our own. I think the thing about T3 is, obviously there was just no Sarah Connor and that's something the fans were never happy with. I don't even think the people who made T3 were happy with that. It just wasn't a choice of theirs. You know, Linda Hamilton was going through some things and didn't want to be a part of it. They had a script at one point I know; there was a T3 that had Sarah in it. I've never read it. I don't know anything about it. But I know that they did and they wanted to do that. They wanted it to be kind of her trilogy, and it never could be. So I think that my feeling was this TV series to me sort of serves as the third act to that trilogy - what could have happened had we followed that after T2. So I almost think of this as T3. To me it takes the place of T3. But also I think that sort of in the spirit of Terminator, it's an alternate timeline. ..."


----------



## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

gchance said:


> I finally got to watch this, and I was thinking about the scene where they picked up Cameron, put her in the chair, and tossed her out the window...
> 
> Shouldn't a Terminator be REALLY heavy, like twice or three times as much as Summer Glau weighs? I mean if John was carrying Summer around, it'd be like carrying a sack of potatoes, but carrying Cameron should be tougher...


Well in T3 they were. (just seen the scene where the LA Fire Dept. tried to lift Arnie but couldn't)


----------



## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

TiVo Bum said:


> http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20170519,00.html
> How bout this?
> 
> 
> > You don't have to be a self-aware supercomputer to spot the obvious temporal paradox in all of the above. In 2003's Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines, it was revealed that Sarah Connor had died of leukemia. Also, at the end of T3, civilization ends in a nuclear holocaust. But pay no attention to such minor metaphysical technicalities (although Connor's cancer will be addressed in episode 2). ''This show completely diverges from the T3 timeline,'' explains consulting producer James Middleton, waving away the contradictions. ''We're not trying to mesh the mythology of the movies with the mythology of the TV show. In T2 there's a famous line: 'There's no fate but what we make for ourselves.' *So what we've done in the pilot is make a new fate for Sarah by giving her an escape hatch in the form of a time machine that brings her to [2007]. Essentially, this show is our version of T3.'' *





Jeeters said:


> http://tv.ign.com/articles/798/798086p1.html
> 
> 
> > IGN: "Are you working within the continuity of the Terminator movies, specifically Terminator 3?"
> ...


Thanks for supporting my viewpoint. For the Sarah in this series, T3 never happened. This is an alternate and new timeline. But since Cameron made a specific reference to events of T3, I still maintain those events can still be brought into play, although like the human looking Klingons of Star Trek, maybe it'll be something they don't want to talk about.

And for the record, until today, I have never read any of these interviews with the producers before. I prefer to let the show speak for itself, and my opinions and speculations are based just on what I saw on TV.


----------



## TiVo Bum (Nov 6, 2004)

balboa dave said:


> Because I'm saying that the T3 events still happened, just not to THIS Sarah Conner.





balboa dave said:


> Thanks for supporting my viewpoint. For the Sarah in this series, T3 never happened. This is an alternate and new timeline. But since Cameron made a specific reference to events of T3, I still maintain those events can still be brought into play, although like the human looking Klingons of Star Trek, maybe it'll be something they don't want to talk about.


Now T3 either happened or didn't happen . Don't think we're talking a Sliders version here, or at least I hope not. IMHO any reference to any events that occured in T3 are entirely "coincidental" - coincidental meaning that the creators of this series can borrow whatever they want from T3 but are in no way mandated to follow any/all of that storyline as that future *never happened*.


----------



## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

TiVo Bum said:


> Now T3 either happened or didn't happen . Don't think we're talking a Sliders version here, or at least I hope not. IMHO any reference to any events that occured in T3 are entirely "coincidental" - coincidental meaning that the creators of this series can borrow whatever they want from T3 but are in no way mandated to follow any/all of that storyline as that future *never happened*.


I've never seen Sliders, so I have no idea what that means, nor do I want to. You have no basis to say the T3 events never happened, since it hasn't been established IN THIS SERIES which future Cameron has come from. If the T3 events happened, she'll know, so we'll just have to wait and see how that develops. I get that this is a complete reboot of the series after T2, but it's not necessary to throw T3 out to achieve that.


----------



## robpickles (May 19, 2005)

balboa dave said:


> Thanks for supporting my viewpoint. For the Sarah in this series, T3 never happened. This is an alternate and new timeline. But since Cameron made a specific reference to events of T3, I still maintain those events can still be brought into play.


The events of T3 *DID* happen but for Cameron only and maybe for the other Terminators that are lurking around. (Edit: At least the ones that were sent back BEFORE their jump into the future)

Cameron changed history by bringing Sarah and John into the future (2007). They disappeared from the year they were living and are considered missing or dead for all intents and purposes. So now they are living in an alternate timeline. Sarah can still get cancer but it will just happen later because of the time shift. So now things will happen differently than the other timeline.

Rob


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

robpickles said:


> _(...)_ are considered dead for all intensive purposes.


What about non-intensive purposes?

Perhaps you meant "intents and purposes"...


----------



## robpickles (May 19, 2005)

Amnesia said:


> What about non-intensive purposes?
> 
> Perhaps you meant "intents and purposes"...


LOL thank u. I will correct.

Rob


----------



## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

mrdbdigital said:


> Was that scene shown in the theatrical release, or re-added for a DVD release? because I sure don't remember it. I'm assuming it is shown in a later version DVD release? Maybe the T2 special edition?


In the theatrical release when John asks if he can learn, he says that his cpu is a learning computer then the camera cuts to John and in a voice over the terminator says that the more he is around people the more he learns.

In the T2 Extreme edition DVD when John asks if he can learn, he says that his cpu is a learning computer but it gets set to read only when they are sent out alone. Then they remove it and reset it in another scene using Linda's twin sister.


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

TiVo Bum said:


> Now T3 either happened or didn't happen .


Didn't happen, that seems obvious to me.


----------



## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

vman41 said:


> Anybody else single-frame through the shot where the enemy terminating is evaluating Cameron? The meter on the left jumps up when he does the x-ray flash to see her skeleton.
> 
> Does the "unknown cyborg" mean she is a model unknown to him or just an individual he hasn't met?


Again, late to the party, but I'm going to go with "unknown model" vs. something he hasn't seen/met before.

There's something special about Cameron...


----------



## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

speedy4022 said:


> I see the headless terminator making it through the time portal as a flaw in the story. How did a head which has no living tissue make the trip when it was already stated only living tissue can travel through them? I don't think it is a big deal I am not that picky but you know the sci-fi nerds will make a huge issue out of it.


who cares about the head... why is everyone focused on the head.

A bank has a MASSIVE explosion. 3 "bodies" are known to be in the vault. 1 "body" is allegedly semi-metal in nature and should be seen in recovered tapes ripping apart the vault door before the explosion occurs.

T1, the remaining parts were taken to Cyberdine for research and evaluation. The bank likely needed to be reconstructed and one should assume that no bodies were found, nor biological remenents (at least not enough for at least 3 humans), but parts of a robot were found. Why were those not somewhere else, but relegated to some scrap heap in some junk yard.

We're meant to believe that the bank was just carted off to a junk yard and 7 years later, still had yet to be sifted through?

That, right there, is the biggest stretch... the robot body/parts should have been in the Secret Service's domain (likely passed on through them to the DoD) rather than in some scrap heap in a junk yard.

Other than that, it makes sense...


----------



## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

smallwonder said:


> The second best was her deadpan response to Summer telling her that John had just given her a diamond: "Good for you."


Again, I think this is going to be something that comes into play in the future...

I think Cameron is going to wind up as his future wife - or, more appropriately, Cameron is modeled after his future wife...

Something like that anyway...


----------



## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

kdelande said:


> And I noticed that Summernator placed her hand ever so gently on John's neck as she walked away from him at the table in one seen, like someone with affection for him.
> 
> KD





IndyJones1023 said:


> She was diagnosing him.


and I would argue that it could have been done in a more clinical way. There's something there that has yet to be revealed...


----------



## Mars Rocket (Mar 24, 2000)

macquariumguy said:


> Didn't happen, that seems obvious to me.


I'd be willing to believe it did happen, but when Cameron took them into the future it wiped out the T3 timeline and started a new one that branched off at 1999.

I have another question: the combination to the safe was "judgment day". But why would the humans who set the combination know when judgment day was (or why would they know the same date as present-day John), since that future was changed in T1 and T2? John's birthday would have been a better choice. For that matter, you'd think Cameron could detect an electrical field and wouldn't just grab it.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

robpickles said:


> The events of T3 *DID* happen but for Cameron only and maybe for the other Terminators that are lurking around. (Edit: At least the ones that were sent back BEFORE their jump into the future)
> 
> Cameron changed history by bringing Sarah and John into the future (2007). They disappeared from the year they were living and are considered missing or dead for all intents and purposes. So now they are living in an alternate timeline. Sarah can still get cancer but it will just happen later because of the time shift. So now things will happen differently than the other timeline.
> 
> Rob


Exactly. The fact that they mentioned that Sarah would have died from cancer if they hadn't jumped to 2007, something that DID happen in the T3 movie timeline, is a clear indicator that this whole show is essentially taking place in a different timeline, and that T3 branched off to another one.

A rather elegant and convenient solution.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

MickeS said:


> The fact that they mentioned that Sarah would have died from cancer if they hadn't jumped to 2007, something that DID happen in the T3 movie timeline, is a clear indicator that this whole show is essentially taking place in a different timeline, and that T3 branched off to another one.


Not at all. She could still die from cancer and they could always jump back in time.


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> Not at all. She could still die from cancer and they could always jump back in time.


It has to be a different timeline... In T3, Sarah was supposed to have died from Cancer in '97. That's two hears before Cameron even found them.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Jeeters said:


> It has to be a different timeline... In T3, Sarah was supposed to have died from Cancer in '97. That's two hears before Cameron even found them.


They could always jump back to 1997.


----------



## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

Jeeters said:


> It has to be a different timeline... In T3, Sarah was supposed to have died from Cancer in '97. That's two hears before Cameron even found them.


I was thinking about the cancer death in relation to T3 and was thinking the same thing, "Oh good, that's how they took care of dealing with that movie!"

Alas, now that you say it happened in 1997, they are kind of ruining the idea that that movie could have happened. 

Well, at LEAST they used the same "idea" of cancer that the movie had (vs. having her die in two years another way, like car crash or hangnail, etc.).


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> They could always jump back to 1997.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Jeeters said:


>


My point is that she supposedly died in 1997, right?

Well in the TV show's chronology, she passed through 1997 without dying. Let's say Sarah was born in '62 and was 35 years old in 1997.

Then in 1999, she would be 37. Now they jumped to 2007 and she is still (physically) 37. Let's say they spend three years "here" until 2010 when she would be physically 40.

The 40-year-old Sarah could then jump back in time to 1995 and live for 2 more years before dying of cancer at 42.


----------



## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

Amnesia said:


> My point is that she supposedly died in 1997, right?
> 
> Well in the TV show's chronology, she passed through 1997 without dying. Let's say Sarah was born in '62 and was 35 years old in 1997.
> 
> ...


*head explodes*


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I'll stick with T3 didn't happen.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Amnesia said:


> My point is that she supposedly died in 1997, right?
> 
> Well in the TV show's chronology, she passed through 1997 without dying. Let's say Sarah was born in '62 and was 35 years old in 1997.
> 
> ...


Wow, that's not even close.

What about jumping 10 years in time would cure you of cancer?

If your body is going to die of cancer in 2 years, then you'd die of cancer in 2 years, no matter if you jumped back 100 years, forward 1000 years or whenever. The year she's in doesn't have anything to do with her dying of cancer.

If she was hit by a train in 1997, then yes jumping in time would stop it.

The reason she died of cancer is she has been on the run constantly, and never went to the doctor.

What happens when she's told she died of cancer in the original timeline? She goes to the doctor. Cancer caught early, end of cancer.

-smak-


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

smak said:


> Wow, that's not even close.
> 
> What about jumping 10 years in time would cure you of cancer?


You missed the point. Let's say she was *always* going to die of cancer at age 42. Always.

There's only one timeline---in that one and only timeline, she passes 1997 at age 35, jumps around in time and ends up back in in 1997 at age 42 and dies. If she didn't jump around in time, she would have died in 2004.

In _T3_, John says that his mother died in 1997 of cancer. She did. He never said she died at age 35---perhaps she died in 1997 at age 42.


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## kmcorbett (Dec 7, 2002)

wmcbrine said:


> She's cool and all, but I couldn't help thinking that Sonya Walger (also in this episode) looks a lot more like Linda Hamilton.


Yes, that's just what I thought when I saw her name flash by in the credits. Walger is a very talented actress, and the resemblance is striking.


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

kmcorbett said:


> Yes, that's just what I thought when I saw her name flash by in the credits. Walger is a very talented actress, and the resemblance is striking.


I have to agree, there is a very strong similarity to Linda Hamilton. If she had been chosen, I would not have been disappointed in the least. And she's another Brit too!

But, I have to say, Lena Headey...man, you can't go wrong with her either. I can't take my eyes off of the screen when she's on. I still seem to be alone in this too!


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Amnesia said:


> You missed the point. Let's say she was *always* going to die of cancer at age 42. Always.
> 
> There's only one timeline---in that one and only timeline, she passes 1997 at age 35, jumps around in time and ends up back in in 1997 at age 42 and dies. If she didn't jump around in time, she would have died in 2004.
> 
> In _T3_, John says that his mother died in 1997 of cancer. She did. He never said she died at age 35---perhaps she died in 1997 at age 42.


There is no T3 in this story. And there's no reason to think she'll ever go back to 1997 now.

-smak-


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

smak said:


> There is no T3 in this story. And there's no reason to think she'll ever go back to 1997 now.


Obviously you haven't been following this thread very closely.


Amnesia said:


> Jeeters said:
> 
> 
> > It has to be a different timeline... In T3, Sarah was supposed to have died from Cancer in '97. That's two hears before Cameron even found them.
> ...


I am stating that the fact that they jumped forward from '97 to '2007 does not preclude the possibility of still being in the _T3_ timeline. (And jumping back in time to let [an older] Sarah die in 1997.)

Are we still on track to _T3_ or not? There's no way of telling---either could be possible.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Amnesia said:


> Obviously you haven't been following this thread very closely.


Why? There is no evidence of T3 in this storyline, and there's no reason to believe she's going back to 1997.

Talking about anything in T3, when everything in this series takes place before T3 is just a waste of time.

What, the last scene of this series will be Sarah & John time traveling back to the 90's? With their memories erased?

Not only have the producer's said that this replaces T3, but they said that her cancer was addressed in episode 2, and it was.

-smak-


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I think the T3 thing is turning into the "Did Sun sleep with her tutor" argument--where some people ignore the clear answer in favor of their own convoluted explanations of how their answer could still be possible, despite mounting evidence to the contrary. In this case, not only do we have the plain-sense interpretation of the show itself that T3 no longer happens, but we have the explicit statements of the show's creators!

Sometimes, Sun really does just sleep with the tutor...


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> _(...)_ people ignore the clear answer in favor of their own convoluted explanations of how their answer could still be possible, despite mounting evidence to the contrary.


There is no evidence to the contrary. Time travel makes many things possible...


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think the T3 thing is turning into the "Did Sun sleep with her tutor" argument--


So wait, now you're saying Sun travelled forward through time to sleep with her tutor? Wait, now I get it! Pushing the button activated a magnetic field that prevented the Terminators from coming back, and when Desmond failed, it allowed one to crash the plane (since John Connor was one of the tailies), but that also caused Sun to leap back in time enough to be able to convince Jin that the baby was his! It all makes sense now! 

(I wonder if Kevin McKidd was on the plane too.)


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Amnesia said:


> There is no evidence to the contrary. Time travel makes many things possible...


The fact that the show's producers came right out and said it is pretty incontrovertible evidence...


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The fact that the show's producers came right out and said it is pretty incontrovertible evidence...


I'm talking about within the show.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

Turtleboy said:


> I'll stick with T3 didn't happen.


Agreed. I can only hope that these threads don't deteriorate into "did T3 happen or not" every week. Looking forward to tonight...


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Hunter Green said:


> So wait, now you're saying Sun travelled forward through time to sleep with her tutor? Wait, now I get it! Pushing the button activated a magnetic field that prevented the Terminators from coming back, and when Desmond failed, it allowed one to crash the plane (since John Connor was one of the tailies), but that also caused Sun to leap back in time enough to be able to convince Jin that the baby was his! It all makes sense now!
> 
> (I wonder if Kevin McKidd was on the plane too.)


Ow!....my head hurts...


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## Rosincrans (May 4, 2006)

I wonder if we'll ever get an idea of the resources available to Skynet in the future. Can they continue to send more Terminators back in time at will? The premise of the first movie was that Skynet was all but destroyed, they had lost the war and were sending a Terminator back in time to kill the man (or mother of the man) who defeated them. 

With an alternate judgement day, it's possible they are not as bad off, but then why send back Terminators to change history if you are already winning? One possibility for the current batch of Terminators is that they know that the resistance has sent people back to wipe out Skynet and they are sending back their own protectors.


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## hapdrastic (Mar 31, 2006)

Mikkel_Knight said:


> who cares about the head... why is everyone focused on the head.
> 
> A bank has a MASSIVE explosion. 3 "bodies" are known to be in the vault. 1 "body" is allegedly semi-metal in nature and should be seen in recovered tapes ripping apart the vault door before the explosion occurs.


I assumed that at least one resistance member that had been sent back in time worked at the bank and took care to clean up all the messy time-machine and terminator-body things so that no one found them and corrupted the timeline.

As for the head, I really hope they address it somewhat with the next episode, because if it's not covered in living flesh it shouldn't have come through the portal - them's the rules.

And my take on the T3 thing. The events happened, but now that Cameron and company have been sent back in time it alters the future (again) so now it won't happen. So it did, but it won't. Easy. Time travel makes small issues like that irrelevant (while making other small issues big issues). The 1997 cancer issue is a mistake by the writers


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## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

hapdrastic said:


> I assumed that at least one resistance member that had been sent back in time worked at the bank and took care to clean up all the messy time-machine and terminator-body things so that no one found them and corrupted the timeline.


If that's the case, why was it sitting in some scrap heap instead of smelted in order to assure its destruction. Again, it's a nitpick, but a bigger one than the head going through (IMO).

Secret Service and FBI would have been all OVER that bank explosion/robbery/heist.

*shrug*

I think I gotta let it go and just watch the show and enjoy it ('cause I'm really liking it)


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Mikkel_Knight said:


> Secret Service and FBI would have been all OVER that bank explosion/robbery/heist.


Especially since it was destroyed by some sort of nuclear event.



> I think I gotta let it go and just watch the show and enjoy it ('cause I'm really liking it)


Ditto.


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## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

balboa dave said:


> wmcbrine said:
> 
> 
> > Not as good as the pilot, but good enough. Can anyone explain the title? Pun? Anagram?
> ...


Well shoot. I was thinking along the anagram lines. A pretty good one I found was *"A Ghettos Union"* which fits with the gang banger/fake ID part of the story.


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## robpickles (May 19, 2005)

Amnesia said:


> Obviously you haven't been following this thread very closely.
> I am stating that the fact that they jumped forward from '97 to '2007 does not preclude the possibility of still being in the _T3_ timeline. (And jumping back in time to let [an older] Sarah die in 1997.)
> 
> Are we still on track to _T3_ or not? There's no way of telling---either could be possible.


I think you are just over-analyzing the whole thing.

For all intents and purposes, T3's events happened and now have been *changed* due to the crew jumping forward in time. If by some chance they *go back *again to the time they left, yes they can still happen the way they did in T3. But I do not see any forseeable reason why they would do this or even WANT to do this.

Besides, Sarah now KNOWS she was going to get cancer and has/is taken steps to CHANGE that from happening the way it did. You can't undo those events.

Rob


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## jones07 (Jan 30, 2001)

Time travel explanations makes my head hurt


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

robpickles said:


> Besides, Sarah now KNOWS she was going to get cancer and has/is taken steps to CHANGE that from happening the way it did.


People die from cancer every day. Even people who know they have cancer.



robpickles said:


> You can't undo those events.


Very true, but time travel allows events to happen out of order.

Look---All I'm saying is that the fact that Sarah survived until 1999 does not preclude the possibility that she could still go back and die in 1997. Time travel allows for this possibility.


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

robpickles said:


> I think you are just over-analyzing the whole thing.
> 
> For all intents and purposes, T3's events happened and now have been *changed* due to the crew jumping forward in time. If by some chance they *go back *again to the time they left, yes they can still happen the way they did in T3. But I do not see any forseeable reason why they would do this or even WANT to do this.


I think you are just over-analyzing the whole thing.


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## robpickles (May 19, 2005)

Hunter Green said:


> I think you are just over-analyzing the whole thing.


I wasn't the one who suggested that they would, for whatever reason, jump back to 1997 - Amnesia did. I was just suggesting Amnesia was over-anaylzing.

Rob


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## robpickles (May 19, 2005)

Amnesia said:


> People die from cancer every day. Even people who know they have cancer.


Right but she doesn't have cancer...yet. So technically she could possibly prevent it from ever happening - If it was natural occurring and she doesn't accidently catch some fallout unexpectedly.



Amnesia said:


> Very true, but time travel allows events to happen out of order.
> 
> Look---All I'm saying is that the fact that Sarah survived until 1999 does not preclude the possibility that she could still go back and die in 1997. Time travel allows for this possibility.


True again. But it would be ridiculous, show or plot-wise, for them to travel backwards in time again. If this happens for any reason - I'm done. 

Rob


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## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

Mikkel_Knight said:


> and I would argue that it could have been done in a more clinical way. There's something there that has yet to be revealed...


In addition, Cameron seems to like to walk around the house without a lot of clothes on. And Sarah admonishes Cameron not to kiss her or "anyone else for that matter".

Just got around to catching the first two episodes. Not bad, even if there was anything else new to watch...


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

logic88 said:


> In addition, Cameron seems to like to walk around the house without a lot of clothes on.


Nothing wrong with that...


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## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

robpickles said:


> Right but she doesn't have cancer...yet. So technically she could possibly prevent it from ever happening - If it was natural occurring and she doesn't accidently catch some fallout unexpectedly.
> 
> True again. But it would be ridiculous, show or plot-wise, for them to travel backwards in time again. If this happens for any reason - I'm done.
> 
> Rob


Unless time traveling causes cancer


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