# Series3 no longer working with Verizon Fios...



## RWSkemer (Aug 4, 2010)

I received a letter from Verizon the other day stating that on or after February 25, 2014, I might only be able to view to unencrypted channels in my package (Channels 1-49 & 501-549). It stated that I should contact TiVo, which I did, to determine if an upgrade is available that will enable my TiVos to fuction with Simulcrypt encryption, use my CableCard with equipment manufactured after 2011 and that functions with Simulcrypt encryption or to use a Verizon Set Top Box.

TiVo responded: "Thank you for contacting TiVo Customer Support. I would be glad to help you with your Verizon Fios questions today. What is happening is Fios is moving to an MPEG 4 version. Your Series 3 TiVo devices will not support this format, the Premiere XL will support this new format on all channels."

Has anybody else in Fios land received this letter as well?

My Premiere XL will still work, but I can see dropping close to $1,400 on two Roamio's. I might have to switch to Verizon's multi room DVR while waiting for their 6 tuner DVR...


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## RWSkemer (Aug 4, 2010)

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28076133-List-of-CableCARD-equipment-MPEG-4-support-status


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Why would you need two Roamios if you have a Premiere already?


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## RWSkemer (Aug 4, 2010)

I have 2 Series3's and 1 Premiere XL for the 3 televisions in my home. I'd need to replace the 2 Series3's with something...


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## teasip (Aug 24, 2002)

With the recent purchase by Verizon of an Intel component allowing for long term IP based television, I'm wondering if I just ride out the TiVo HD with lifetime until my FiOS package (Prime only) becomes an IP based system (no one knows the timetable as of yet)? It's a large financial outlay to purchase new hardware if there is the proverbial bigger and better just around the corner where home based DVR's aren't even needed any longer. Push comes to shove I can always use it as an OTA DVR since I have an attic antenna, or obtain one of their DVR's until the IP picture becomes clearer. If not clear over a reasonable time window (year?) then a decision can be made with regard to returning to TiVo.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

RWSkemer said:


> I have 2 Series3's and 1 Premiere XL for the 3 televisions in my home. I'd need to replace the 2 Series3's with something...


Yes, but a mini is much cheaper...

EDIT- my point is one Roamio and a mini is cheaper than two Roamios. Sorry I was not clear.


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## RWSkemer (Aug 4, 2010)

jrtroo said:


> Yes, but a mini is much cheaper...


A Mini Requires a dedicated tuner from the "mother TiVo." My Premiere XL only has 2 tuners. It wouldn't work for me... If I had a 4 or 6 tuner TiVo, this would be an option.


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## shadoh (Jul 29, 2004)

RWSkemer said:


> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28076133-List-of-CableCARD-equipment-MPEG-4-support-status


Whoa! How.... odd. I've been a FiOS customer for years, always with an S3 HD and HD XL, and I've not gotten such a notice neither in my email nor snail mail. By coincidence, I decided to upgrade one of my units this week to Roamio following TiVo's big push on their sale. So if I hadn't, would I suddenly have stopped receiving a ton of channels? That would have sucked - I'd have been scrambling. As it is, I was still planning on keeping my HD XL. So after April I won't be able to use it for some HD channels?! If so, this has been very poorly communicated!


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## RWSkemer (Aug 4, 2010)

shadoh said:


> Whoa! How.... odd. I've been a FiOS customer for years, always with an S3 HD and HD XL, and I've not gotten such a notice neither in my email nor snail mail. By coincidence, I decided to upgrade one of my units this week to Roamio following TiVo's big push on their sale. So if I hadn't, would I suddenly have stopped receiving a ton of channels? That would have sucked - I'd have been scrambling. As it is, I was still planning on keeping my HD XL. So after April I won't be able to use it for some HD channels?! If so, this has been very poorly communicated!


And to make matters worse, when my friend called Verizon to inquire, since he has a TiVoHD, they person he spoke to had no clue any of this was happening. Nor did the person from Verizon know about the new Motorola Medios+ VMS1100 (6 Tuner) multi room DVR. Once that FINALLY is released, I'll have a viable, albeit not as great as TiVo, option. At least I'll have OnDemand though.

I'm just upset, I love TiVo. I've had my TiVos since the 1st generation. Hoping Apple finally comes out with the solution to the TV this year.


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## shadoh (Jul 29, 2004)

RWSkemer said:


> I'm just upset, I love TiVo. I've had my TiVos since the 1st generation. Hoping Apple finally comes out with the solution to the TV this year.


Ditto. TiVo customer since S1 (2000) and would hate to leave them.

So I went back and read and re-read and re-read the thread you linked from dslreports (yes, I was that  about it), and realize that the original post of the guy listing out incompatible devices was from March of last year, talking about the change coming "on/after April," presumably April 2013. So, did this change happen? I hope so, because I didn't notice anything. Later posts to that thread mention that S3's support MPEG4, and that all was needed was a software update from TiVo. So, maybe that happened?


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## RWSkemer (Aug 4, 2010)

shadoh said:


> Ditto. TiVo customer since S1 (2000) and would hate to leave them.
> 
> So I went back and read and re-read and re-read the thread you linked from dslreports (yes, I was that  about it), and realize that the original post of the guy listing out incompatible devices was from March of last year, talking about the change coming "on/after April," presumably April 2013. So, did this change happen? I hope so, because I didn't notice anything. Later posts to that thread mention that S3's support MPEG4, and that all was needed was a software update from TiVo. So, maybe that happened?


The changed started with certain channels already. There are some channels that I can only pick up on my Premiere and not on my Series3s. Verizon and TiVo were confused to why, but it was because these newer channels were encoded with their new format. Now it looks like they're changing everything over.


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## shadoh (Jul 29, 2004)

RWSkemer said:


> The changed started with certain channels already. There are some channels that I can only pick up on my Premiere and not on my Series3s. Verizon and TiVo were confused to why, but it was because these newer channels were encoded with their new format. Now it looks like they're changing everything over.


Can you give me some examples when you have a chance? I'd like to compare my Roamio with my S3. Thanks!


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## RWSkemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Channel 598 by me is BeInSport. It's a soccer channel.


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## teasip (Aug 24, 2002)

For this to be a valid comparison I would think that both parties would need to be on the same programming package, though you may already be.


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## shadoh (Jul 29, 2004)

teasip said:


> For this to be a valid comparison I would think that both parties would need to be on the same programming package, though you may already be.


Agreed! For me, channel 598 is "MavTV HD" (whatever that is), not a soccer channel, and only comes with the "Extreme HD" package and above. I do have Extreme, so just for fun, I will be testing it out tonight. I will say, I have been using my Series 3 units since they supposedly were rolling in the change, and I have never had any issues with any channels, so either it hasn't hit me, TiVo has updated the software, I don't watch any of the impacted channels (yet) (which is why I wanted to do a comparison with someone who has verified this issue), or.... something else entirely. *shrug*


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## RWSkemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Obviously the letter from Verizon and the confirmation from TiVo made me realize this was going to be happening. 

Try the BeInSport channel and let me know how it goes...


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## JediTim (Sep 25, 2007)

I was considering purchasing a Roamio a couple weeks ago after one of my Series 3 units started acting up. After rebooting the TiVo it has worked without issue. I currently have two Series 4 and one Series 4 Tivo units. With this new information from Verizon I will likely purchase a TiVo Roamio Pro and a TiVo Mini to replace the two Series 3 units. I can sell these two units (with Lifetime Subscriptions) on eBay to recoup some of the costs and at the same time wil lhave three less Cablecards from Verizon to reduce my monthly payment.


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## shadoh (Jul 29, 2004)

RWSkemer said:


> Obviously the letter from Verizon and the confirmation from TiVo made me realize this was going to be happening.
> 
> Try the BeInSport channel and let me know how it goes...


Just did a little more digging... the lineup PDF I was looking at was a couple of years old and not current, hence my 598 was not "BeInSport." I found the more current one (here) and first pulled up my package (Extreme), and I could not find 598 or BeInSport. Pulled up Ultimate -- and it is there. So, I will definitely not see it. Any others that you've seen and are in the Extreme package that we can compare?


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## RWSkemer (Aug 4, 2010)

shadoh said:


> Just did a little more digging... the lineup PDF I was looking at was a couple of years old and not current, hence my 598 was not "BeInSport." I found the more current one (here) and first pulled up my package (Extreme), and I could not find 598 or BeInSport. Pulled up Ultimate -- and it is there. So, I will definitely not see it. Any others that you've seen and are in the Extreme package that we can compare?


I'm not sure what other channels were doing this for me. I think some of the channels that end with ".TV" didn't work on the Series3's.


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## RWSkemer (Aug 4, 2010)

teasip said:


> With the recent purchase by Verizon of an Intel component allowing for long term IP based television, I'm wondering if I just ride out the TiVo HD with lifetime until my FiOS package (Prime only) becomes an IP based system (no one knows the timetable as of yet)? It's a large financial outlay to purchase new hardware if there is the proverbial bigger and better just around the corner where home based DVR's aren't even needed any longer. Push comes to shove I can always use it as an OTA DVR since I have an attic antenna, or obtain one of their DVR's until the IP picture becomes clearer. If not clear over a reasonable time window (year?) then a decision can be made with regard to returning to TiVo.


I already ordered the FiOS multi room DVR and a set top box to make up for the 2 Series 3's I'll be losing. I have a feeling the IP system, Apple in participle, will be making some headway this year.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

The answer is obvious.

TiVo needs to take that lawsuit cash and start buying cable companies, and run them so much better than anyone else that consumer outrage forces outfits like Comcast and TWC to sell out to them.

If cable companies can bring out their own DVRS, I see no reason DVR makers can't be in the cable franchise business.


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## pmiranda (Feb 12, 2003)

Haha, good luck buying cable companies... Cheaper to establish their own IP TV service but the problem is getting content. Maybe they could buy a smaller, local cableco to get a content package but that would probably only make money for the lawyers.


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## TexasAg1996 (Jan 30, 2014)

I asked about this over at dslreports. The folks there said there was no way Verizon could switch to MPEG4 without affecting all of their other boxes that can't handle MPEG4. Someone did say that this involved an expansion of Simulcrypt. 

According to something I read elsewhere, Tivo already updated its boxes to handle Simulcrypt, but CableCard manufacturers may not. I'm wondering if you have older CableCards that can't or won't be updated.


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## RWSkemer (Aug 4, 2010)

TexasAg1996 said:


> I asked about this over at dslreports. The folks there said there was no way Verizon could switch to MPEG4 without affecting all of their other boxes that can't handle MPEG4. Someone did say that this involved an expansion of Simulcrypt.
> 
> According to something I read elsewhere, Tivo already updated its boxes to handle Simulcrypt, but CableCard manufacturers may not. I'm wondering if you have older CableCards that can't or won't be updated.


According to TiVo, it's hardware related. Both Verizon and TiVo are confirming this. Is what it is I guess.


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## wkearney99 (Dec 5, 2003)

RWSkemer said:


> And to make matters worse, when my friend called Verizo...


I pity your poor friend. Any time we call them it takes at least 45 minute to talk to someone that will be guaranteed not to know WTF they're talking about and another hour before speaking to a half-dozen other that don't either. Three of those kinds of calls seem to be what it takes to solve anything with verizon.

Thus far none of the channels they're upgrading are of any interest to us. But I'm going to pull the trigger on a Roamio to upgrade an S3 that's been acting up lately.


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## caughey (May 26, 2007)

I'm confused. Did anyone besides the OP get anything from Verizon?

The Verizon message from the OP doesn't mention MPEG4 at all (at least the parts the OP paraphrased)--it only talks about Simulcrypt encryption. But FiOS started rolling that out in 2010: http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/16/verizon-fios-simulcrypt-rollout-will-break-most-cablecard-tuners/ and TiVo patched their software to be compatible:


> FiOS Simulcrypt rollout will break most CableCARD tuners... TiVo has already released updates for its devices (AUGUST 16TH, 2010)


Here's a theory: 
FiOS is finally rolling out out simulcrypt in the OP's area and sends message (no idea why they would wait so long, or maybe computer sent message out late by mistake--but it explains why not everyone else was notified)
OP contacts TiVo and asks about losing FiOS channels on Series3. 
TiVo CSR assumes OP is asking about more recent (2013) MPEG4/FiOS/Series3 issue which isn't fixed instead of older (2010) Simulcrypt/FiOS/Series3 issue which was fixed years ago
Well, now that I've reasoned all that out, it seems dslreports came to the same conclusion: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28998541-Switch-to-MPEG4-for-all-non-local-channels-


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## johncoyne (Jul 15, 2003)

I received the same letter from FIOS, called TIvo to confirm and now the owner if a new Roamio Pro. I will actually be saving some money each month as I have two Tivo series 3 each with 2 cable cards. Roamio with 6 tuners will replace the 2 series 3 and it takes only 1 M card (saving me about $15 a month on cable card fees) plus I am saving about $20 a month on a single tivo monthly subscription? Thinking this is a blessing in disguise. I will be setting up the new system in the next week or so. All components have been delivered.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I don't recall ever getting the letter from Verizon, but I believe I read somewhere that this isn't happening in all markets served by FIOS. It also only affects certain channels in your lineup in the areas where it's being implemented.


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## RWSkemer (Aug 4, 2010)

So this update, whether or not it went into effect, did nothing to change anything. I sold my two Series3 TiVos, but my friend, who has a Series3 TiVoHD, still has no issues. Why was I sent this letter then? So angry.


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## johncoyne (Jul 15, 2003)

Either way, I am just thrilled that I upgraded to the tivo pro. In the long run I will be saving around $20+more a month off my cable bill.....now only renting one cable card instead of four (yes, I had two tivos) and eliminated the need for an extra cable box.....BTW, I have two series 3 HD Tivos for sale if anyone is interested. Will take $35 each plus shipping.


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## leepoffaith (Apr 21, 2014)

Hey Guys,

I'm new here, but I think I know why the series 3 can't tune certain channels but the newer Tivos can. All new channels that Verizon adds from now on will be MPEG-4. I would guess that 3 Series Tivos can't decode MPEG-4 so that is why you can not see these particular stations. It does not affect too many channels as of now (Listed them below) but I've been told that any new additions will also be MPEG-4. Hope this helps!

MPEG-4 Verizon FIOS Stations:

SD Channels 36, 54, 84, 100, 101, 105, 125
HD Channels 558, 571, 592, 596, 597, 598, 599, 633, 674, 676, 695, 735, 744, 906, 907, 912, 913, 923, 924, 926, 928, 929

It also includes all the MLB, NBA, NHL and Soccer League season pass channels and many of the Spanish Language channels.


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## teasip (Aug 24, 2002)

Your assumption is correct. TiVo series 3 units cannot, as presently formatted, receive MPEG-4 channels. Reportedly it is software related based on prior threads but TiVo will not be pushing any further updates to allow for this (older generation equipment).


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## leepoffaith (Apr 21, 2014)

Ok, good to hear! I wasn't sure that was clearly stated in the forum so I wanted to clear it up some. Thanks!


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