# Charter / TIVO Update



## ghuido (May 9, 2007)

Just some news on the Charter / TIVO Front ...

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=215449&site=lr_cable&

I have comcast ...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Sounds like they're really moving along on Charter. I wonder why they're still having so much trouble with Comcast and Cox, given those deals were announced years earlier?

Dan


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## mp11 (Jan 29, 2008)

It's peaked my interest. Not sure if the article stated the price/month for the unit, and how it compares to the $13/mo I'm paying for my Tivo with Charter service.


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## loke (Jun 4, 2009)

Dan203 said:


> Sounds like they're really moving along on Charter. I wonder why they're still having so much trouble with Comcast and Cox, given those deals were announced years earlier?
> 
> Dan


The only complain I have with Cox and Tivo right now is no OnDemand. I've been excited for a partnership that would rectify that, but a search of Google news reveals one mention that the deal was dissolved. It looks like the article is subscriber only and I wasn't able to find anything else to back that up, to take it for what its worth.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

mp11 said:


> It's peaked my interest.


piqued


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> Sounds like they're really moving along on Charter. I wonder why they're still having so much trouble with Comcast and Cox, given those deals were announced years earlier?
> 
> Dan


Per some recent comments from Roger's Comcast roll-out is early 2012 in San Fran. Cox is still being worked but it appears to be somewhat behind Comcast. My guess is the delay is related to cable operator timing issues more than issues with TiVo providing the service.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

mp11 said:


> It's peaked my interest. Not sure if the article stated the price/month for the unit, and how it compares to the $13/mo I'm paying for my Tivo with Charter service.


http://www.multichannel.com/article/477644-Charter_Drives_TiVo_Premiere_Into_Lone_Star_State.php



> Charter's TiVo DVR will be $20 per month; during a limited promotion period, subscribers can get additional TiVos for $10 per month for 12 months.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

It's now available in Dallas but none of the zip codes I tried would work.

http://www.charter.com/tivo


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## mp11 (Jan 29, 2008)

mattack said:


> piqued


Sure about that?


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## mp11 (Jan 29, 2008)

sbiller said:


> http://www.multichannel.com/article/477644-Charter_Drives_TiVo_Premiere_Into_Lone_Star_State.php


I dont see paying 20 when I'm paying 13 with my TivoHD now.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

mp11 said:


> Sure about that?


Yes
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/piqued


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

mp11 said:


> I dont see paying 20 when I'm paying 13 with my TivoHD now.


New retail Premiere buyers pay $99 up front plus $20 a month unless they pay lifetime. At retail if you want a free replacement if it breaks past 90 days then you have to pay another $30 or $40 for an extended warranty. So the $20 cable company deals are not bad unless you like owning equipment and pay for lifetime.


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## cptlapcat (Oct 4, 2007)

mp11 said:


> I dont see paying 20 when I'm paying 13 with my TivoHD now.


I struggled with this decision just like you and have the same setup as you. I decided to go with the Charter Tivo for the following reasons.

1. No Tuning Adapter. This is a "biggie" for me.

2. VOD. I have been missing some good stuff.

3. Charter Support. Now I only have to call one number for support. I don't have to listen to Charter blaming Tivo and Tivo blaming Charter anymore.

4. Second Tivo for $10 a month.

What I really want is the Tivo Premiere Q but I can get by with the Premiere for now. Bring it on Charter.


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## mp11 (Jan 29, 2008)

mattack said:


> Yes
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/piqued


OMG... did you really post a dictionary quote? Peak my interest, i.e.the summit of my interest. Make sense?


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## Nugent (Jan 20, 2004)

On a similar tact - Viola!


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## mp11 (Jan 29, 2008)

nrc said:


> New retail Premiere buyers pay $99 up front plus $20 a month unless they pay lifetime. At retail if you want a free replacement if it breaks past 90 days then you have to pay another $30 or $40 for an extended warranty. So the $20 cable company deals are not bad unless you like owning equipment and pay for lifetime.


OK I didn't know the new Tivos were up in price. Thanks.



cptlapcat said:


> I struggled with this decision just like you and have the same setup as you. I decided to go with the Charter Tivo for the following reasons.
> 
> 1. No Tuning Adapter. This is a "biggie" for me.
> 
> ...


Well, I didn't need the TA in my case, so I guess I'm lucky in that respect. It will be interesting to see when it rolls out in my area.


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## Stuxnet (Feb 9, 2011)

mattack said:


> Yes
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/piqued


"peaked" could work too... it's all in the context  though I'm less hopeful for "peeked"...


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## mp11 (Jan 29, 2008)

Stuxnet said:


> "peaked" could work too... it's all in the context  though I'm less hopeful for "peeked"...


Yeah I dont think "peeked" would work lol, except for maybe, "I peeked at the secretary as she went up the stairs."


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Stuxnet said:


> "peaked" could work too... it's all in the context  though I'm less hopeful for "peeked"...


I think you guys are trolling. I would say that basically any time someone has said 'peaked my/their interest', they meant piqued.


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## wp746911 (Feb 19, 2005)

1)dunno- I live in Fort Worth and it says its available now- but I already own 2 premieres with lifetime...Not sure $20 a month works for me
2)I abhor the grammar police. I don't log into some tivo forum to work on my grammar. Why do people insist on correcting it? If it bothers you then keep it to yourself. It I were on an english literature forum I would expect it. I think the grammar police should be taken out back and shot- and that is being nice.


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## mp11 (Jan 29, 2008)

mattack said:


> I think you guys are trolling. I would say that basically any time someone has said 'peaked my/their interest', they meant piqued.


Oh good greif...I've heard enough, you win.


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## mp11 (Jan 29, 2008)

wp746911 said:


> 1)dunno- I live in Fort Worth and it says its available now- but I already own 2 premieres with lifetime...Not sure $20 a month works for me
> 2)I abhor the grammar police. I don't log into some tivo forum to work on my grammar. Why do people insist on correcting it? If it bothers you then keep it to yourself. It I were on an english literature forum I would expect it. I think the grammar police should be taken out back and shot- and that is being nice.


I think most here would agree with that.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

Keep in mind that the Charter TiVos don't do Netflix (and I think they don't do Amazon & Blockbuster, too, but I'm not sure). Charter says they're OK with Netflix on their boxes, but Netflix contracts with the movie studios mandate that Netflix streaming is not available on MSO-owned devices. I assume this is to protect VOD revenue for the studios, but I bet the cable companies aren't pressing them too hard to change it. Don't expect this to change any time soon.


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## mp11 (Jan 29, 2008)

How many tuners does this thing have? Hopefully at least 3.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

mp11 said:


> Oh good greif...I've heard enough, you win.


grief.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

mp11 said:


> How many tuners does this thing have? Hopefully at least 3.


I believe Charter is rolling out the Premier, not the Elite (I don't know of any Charter systems that are 100% digital or have digital simulcast)


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## andygrose (Apr 23, 2007)

Just curious, but how is the Charter Tivo Premiere different than a regular Tivo Premiere paired with a tuning adapter? Is the hardware physically different?

Andy


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## MeInDallas (Jul 31, 2011)

nrc said:


> It's now available in Dallas but none of the zip codes I tried would work.
> 
> http://www.charter.com/tivo


We can only get Time Warner Cable in Dallas that might be why they didnt work.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

andygrose said:


> Just curious, but how is the Charter Tivo Premiere different than a regular Tivo Premiere paired with a tuning adapter? Is the hardware physically different?
> 
> Andy


I believe the MSO-provided boxes have software on the boxes to allow SDV to work without an adapter. Not sure if this results in different hardware, too. They also have software on the boxes that allows them to interface with the cable company's VOD, but that all goes over IP, not the same communications channel a Motorola or Cisco box provided by the cable company would use.


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## donnoh (Mar 7, 2008)

I believe Charter is planning on rolling out the Elite. When I called them a few months ago to report that some of my HD stations quit coming in on my Tivo the guy on the phone from Charter told me that they were going to "blow the competition out of the water" with a 4 tuner Tivo early next year.

They might also be planning on the Premiere, but the Elite makes more sense to me.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

donnoh said:


> I believe Charter is planning on rolling out the Elite. When I called them a few months ago to report that some of my HD stations quit coming in on my Tivo the guy on the phone from Charter told me that they were going to "blow the competition out of the water" with a 4 tuner Tivo early next year.
> 
> They might also be planning on the Premiere, but the Elite makes more sense to me.


If that's the case, it will take longer for this to roll out than they have let on. I haven't heard of any widespread fully digital Charter systems, either digital simulcast or analog-free


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## andygrose (Apr 23, 2007)

I'm sitting here about to make the jump to HD (just got a new TV) and wondering if I should upgrade to a Tivo Premiere purchased from Tivo or wait and see what Charter has to offer. I'm a believer in the lifetime Tivo subscriptions, so I'd rather go that way. Still not sure what Charter's gonna charge for their Tivo boxes.

Only thing is that we just went round and round with Charter next door at my in-laws house. Got them a new Tivo Premiere XL and then found out about the whole Charter/SDV issue. It took 5 service calls from Charter, about 8 cable cards, and 3 Cisco tuning adapters. It is working fine for them for a few days now (knock on wood).

One thing Charter did do for me in all of this was to hook up one of their HD DVR boxes on the same TV. I told them I wanted to compare the basic DVR to the Tivo. Their DVR has all of the basic functionality that a Tivo has, but the user-interface is a little lacking. It still lets you do a "season pass" with similar options to Tivo. It doesn't require a tuning adapter. I guess the biggest minus in my opinion is the loss of networking with the other Tivo boxes and PC in the house. Wonder if the Charter Tivos will let you network and transfer shows to other Tivos and the PC. I've gotta be able to still get shows over to my iPhone/iPods. Who knows, I may get one of Charter's DVRs for my new HDTV to ride out the wait for the Charter Tivo boxes.

Anybody else in the same boat?

Andy


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## cptlapcat (Oct 4, 2007)

andygrose said:


> I'm sitting here about to make the jump to HD (just got a new TV) and wondering if I should upgrade to a Tivo Premiere purchased from Tivo or wait and see what Charter has to offer. I'm a believer in the lifetime Tivo subscriptions, so I'd rather go that way. Still not sure what Charter's gonna charge for their Tivo boxes.
> 
> Only thing is that we just went round and round with Charter next door at my in-laws house. Got them a new Tivo Premiere XL and then found out about the whole Charter/SDV issue. It took 5 service calls from Charter, about 8 cable cards, and 3 Cisco tuning adapters. It is working fine for them for a few days now (knock on wood).
> 
> ...


That is the exact situation that I was in. I made the decision to wait for the Charter Tivo for the following reasons.

1. No Tuning Adapter. That is a big deal for me.

2. Video on Demand. You don't get VOD unless you have the Charter Tivo.

3. Charter Support. You no longer have Charter blaming Tivo or Tivo blaming Charter for a problem. Charter should handle the situation.

I have been following the Tivo roll-out at RCN and Virgin Media in the UK which seems to be going smoothly after a bumpy start. Also the Charter Tivo roll-out in Dallas/Fort Worth is underway and so far so good. I think you can get an idea of what the experience will be like when Charter rolls out to your area.

What I am really wishing for is the Tivo Q but will settle for the Tivo Premiere.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

cptlapcat said:


> That is the exact situation that I was in. I made the decision to wait for the Charter Tivo for the following reasons.
> 
> 1. No Tuning Adapter. That is a big deal for me.
> 
> ...


I'm curious as to why a TA is such a deal breaker for you?


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## pops_porter (Sep 27, 2005)

JosephB said:


> I'm curious as to why a TA is such a deal breaker for you?


I can't speak for cptlapcat, but for me the TA certainly isn't 100% perfect and I've missed some recordings because it couldn't get the SDV channels for whatever reason. Only a couple of times have I had to unplug the TA and get it to reset and connect to the Tivo to finally get my SDV channels back, but it's still frustrating.


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## andygrose (Apr 23, 2007)

pops_porter said:


> the TA certainly isn't 100% perfect


That's what I've heard too. The last thing I want is to have a system that my father-in-law has to unplug a box every few days to get it working again. Definitely not something non-techie folks need to be doing.


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## Tobashadow (Nov 11, 2006)

I am going to round the figures a tiny bit, but I am currently paying $25 a month for two S2DT machines which are rendered 1 1/2 tuners due to me also having to pay $5 a month for two cable boxes to receive the digital channels all in SD, and as of march both TV's are HD capable now.

Three questions

A: At $30 (but i notice this is for only 12 months then i assume back to $20 each) for two I am essentially breaking even with what I am paying now but getting 2 actual tuners per box instead of 1 1/2. BUT do i have to pay cable card fee on top of it like i would if i owned them? And how much is the standard HD package?

B: Does Tivo to GO and Box to Box transfer work? It's a very big thing in my household. 

C: Do programs like PyTivo and StreamBaby work on them? Major Major have to in my household!!

Or should i just say screw it and get a couple of TivoHD's?


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## Supes33 (Jan 1, 2012)

I live in Fort Worth, TX and just got 2 of the Charter TIVO Premiere boxes installed this past Friday (12/30/11)...the first box is $20, the 2nd (due to a promo) is $10 as I only wanted 1 TIVO box at first and to keep my regular HD box but charter indicated the system at the time wouldn't allow for me to do that. The $10 amount is the same price as I was paying for the regular HD box. I also had a series 2 TIVO single tuner box that I was paying about $14 a month for (back when i got that series 2 box I didn't believe in the reliability of TIVO) that I just cancelled. All and all, the difference in price for me is about $6. The new boxes are great.


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## cptlapcat (Oct 4, 2007)

JosephB said:


> I'm curious as to why a TA is such a deal breaker for you?


Almost every time I turn on the TV from the previous night the picture is not tuned. I have to push the channel up button to tune the picture (not that big of a deal).

On the few occasions that doesn't work I have to get on my hands and knee's and crawl under my cabinet to disconnect and reconnect the TA. That is a real pain.

By the way if any one knows why my picture doesn't tune when I first turn on my TV I would love to find out.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

cptlapcat said:


> Almost every time I turn on the TV from the previous night the picture is not tuned. I have to push the channel up button to tune the picture (not that big of a deal).
> 
> On the few occasions that doesn't work I have to get on my hands and knee's and crawl under my cabinet to disconnect and reconnect the TA. That is a real pain.
> 
> By the way if any one knows why my picture doesn't tune when I first turn on my TV I would love to find out.


I can't speak to unreliability in terms of missing recordings or it not tuning when you select a channel, but when you turn on your TV and it's blank it's because that channel has timed out.

The headend will, after X hours (I think TiVo's documentation says 5 hours), ask all clients if they're still watching the channel. The TA will ask the TiVo what's going on, and if the TiVo is recording (or about to record) it'll inform the TA that the channel is still needed. If it's not recording or about to record, it will prompt you on the TV screen to press select or the channel may go blank. Since your TV is off, you never see the prompt and the channel is disabled from the head end.

The cable company does this to clear out unused channels. Otherwise, they'd fill up all their SDV slots and eventually there'd be no room for new channels to be tuned. Note that this will happen with any box that tunes SDV, not just a Tivo with an external tuning adapter.

If you get a lot of channels not tuning when you select them, or missed recordings due to the video stream not being available, I would report that to the cable company. That may mean that they have too many channels on SDV and not enough "temporary" channel space for the number of customers. IE: too many customers are watching too many different channels at a time on your node and it's filling up all the video channels when you try to tune yours. If this is what's happening, getting a TiVo with SDV capability built in or even a MSO-provided Scientific Atlanta/Motorola box will have the same problems.


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## andygrose (Apr 23, 2007)

My father-in-law told me today that sometimes if he tried to "tape" a movie during the night, it would cut off before the movie ended. Do you think that is because the channel timed out?

Yes, he still says he "tapes" movies on the Tivo. Old habits are hard to break. At least he knows how to use the Tivo, right?


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## duncan7 (Sep 17, 2004)

cptlapcat said:


> 3. Charter Support. You no longer have Charter blaming Tivo or Tivo blaming Charter for a problem. Charter should handle the situation.


Charter _should_ do a lot of things. I'm interested to hear how this aspect of the partnership actually works.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

andygrose said:


> My father-in-law told me today that sometimes if he tried to "tape" a movie during the night, it would cut off before the movie ended. Do you think that is because the channel timed out?
> 
> Yes, he still says he "tapes" movies on the Tivo. Old habits are hard to break. At least he knows how to use the Tivo, right?


If he's recording with the TiVo, when the tuning adapter asks "can I drop this channel?" the TiVo should give it the same response as if you were watching it live and it prompted you, which is to say it should tell the tuning adapter that it still needs the channel



duncan7 said:


> Charter _should_ do a lot of things. I'm interested to hear how this aspect of the partnership actually works.


Charter is providing the box and all customer support. If something happens to be a TiVo problem, Charter is supposed to run interference between you and TiVo. I mean, you never have to call Cisco or Motorola if you have trouble with any of Charter's other equipment, right?


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## GadgetVirtuoso (Sep 27, 2001)

Tobashadow said:


> A: At $30 (but i notice this is for only 12 months then i assume back to $20 each) for two I am essentially breaking even with what I am paying now but getting 2 actual tuners per box instead of 1 1/2. BUT do i have to pay cable card fee on top of it like i would if i owned them? And how much is the standard HD package?


You would have to get a cable card for TiVos you own. The cable cards cost $5 each per month. TiVo Premier fee is $20 so that's $25 plus the cost of the equipment. HD costs $5 per month so the actual cost of the TiVo is $15 if you don't opt for HD. So the Charter CSR told me when I ordered mine.


Tobashadow said:


> B: Does Tivo to GO and Box to Box transfer work? It's a very big thing in my household.


The box isn't crippled. Charter has only enabled it to do VOD. Mine could pull video from Vuze running on my Mac without any trouble.


Tobashadow said:


> C: Do programs like PyTivo and StreamBaby work on them? Major Major have to in my household!!
> 
> Or should i just say screw it and get a couple of TivoHD's?


Haven't tried but like I said it picked up Vuze on my Mac without any assistance from me.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

GadgetVirtuoso said:


> You would have to get a cable card for TiVos you own. The cable cards cost $5 each per month. TiVo Premier fee is $20 so that's $25 plus the cost of the equipment. HD costs $5 per month so the actual cost of the TiVo is $15 if you don't opt for HD. So the Charter CSR told me when I ordered mine.


Cable cards from charter are only $3. Also keep in mind if you get an HD/digital package and bring your own box, you should get a discount because you aren't using their box. In the near term, though, getting a Charter-provided box is probably more cost effective ($20 rental, no cable card fee, no up front purchase price vs. $99 purchase + $2 cable card + $20 TiVo Service fee). Long term it may be better to buy the TiVo and get lifetime, depends on your expected upgrade cycle.



> The box isn't crippled. Charter has only enabled it to do VOD. Mine could pull video from Vuze running on my Mac without any trouble.
> Haven't tried but like I said it picked up Vuze on my Mac without any assistance from me.


Actually it is slightly crippled. MRV, pyTivo, etc. all work fine; however, MSO-provided boxes do NOT have so-called over-the-top services like Netflix or Amazon (Netflix is the only one I've confirmed, I just assume the others are blocked too). This is due to the contracts between Netflix and the movie studios, not a policy decision by TiVo or Charter. Charter has publicly said they're OK with Netflix on their boxes. The upside to the Charter TiVo is that you get on demand (which is probably why studios want to block Netflix on those)


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## GadgetVirtuoso (Sep 27, 2001)

I'm sorry that is correct Netflix, Amazon and other services aren't available currently. The installer said that Netflix is coming. Since Netflix doesn't have any new DVD/PPV releases for at least 30 days there isn't a direct conflict. Surely the studios and Charter recognize not making Netflix available on the TiVo doesn't stop anyone from using Netflix. Most Blu-Ray players offer Netflix and many also offer Amazon and Hulu, among others.Heck I have Netflix on the blu-ray player, AppleTV and Roku.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

GadgetVirtuoso said:


> I'm sorry that is correct Netflix, Amazon and other services aren't available currently. The installer said that Netflix is coming. Since Netflix doesn't have any new DVD/PPV releases for at least 30 days there isn't a direct conflict. Surely the studios and Charter recognize not making Netflix available on the TiVo doesn't stop anyone from using Netflix. Most Blu-Ray players offer Netflix and many also offer Amazon and Hulu, among others.Heck I have Netflix on the blu-ray player, AppleTV and Roku.


It's up to the studios, and supposedly Netflix is negotiating actively to have the restriction removed. Charter has said publicly that they are perfectly OK with Netflix on the TiVos they provide (they actually said they want it and were talking to the studios, too. However, the contract that has to be modified is between studios + Netflix only)


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