# Giving up on TiVO Permanently



## mlprice (Apr 5, 2011)

I've got a TiVO Premiere XL. I'm on Time Warner. I must emphatically state that using TiVO with Time Warner is a mistake that you should avoid. The two companies are not cooperative. Time Warner has no vested interest in seeing TiVO be successful, and TiVO's attitude is that if there are any problems, it couldn't possibly be with their box. You are always left in the middle paying through the nose for service that does not work.

Both companies treat you like an idiot.

When I initially got my TiVO it took me literally MONTHS to get the stupid cable card issues resolved between the two companies. The finger pointing is utterly disgusting. They will barely talk to one another. 

Currently, after almost a year of working with no problems, my TiVO simply isn't working properly. I get a video that stalls, gets pixelated, blacks out, etc. If I attempt to record something, I get garbage. When I attempt to play something that I recorded back, the TiVO box will go completely wonky and reboot itself. Sometimes it reboots itself over and over and over and over and over, and I just turn off the television and let it masturbate in private.

TiVO says it is a signal quality problem so they won't swap out this box that is still under warranty.

Time Warner came out, plugging in their devices, and of course they say signal quality is fine. 

Once again I'm screwed. I'm stuck in the middle, staring at crap on the screen and both companies say everything is fine, or it's "them not us."

My box seemed to go a bit wonky after TiVO did their upgrade to my UI without my permission. (I hate the new UI, just for the record).

So I called TiVO back this morning, no help. Basically they just said keep paying the bill, sorry if it doesn't work.

I called Time Warner again this morning, they said, "We're checking your signal quality now it's fine. We can send someone to check it again if you like."

So I've had it.
I've had it with smug, condescending, TiVO reps literally named Fonzi.
I've had it with clueless, non-English speaking Time Warner techs.

I cannot wait for the new Apple Television. I look forward to seeing TiVO become the RIM of the DVR world. I look forward to watching cable companies scramble to upgrade their services to deal with people who have higher expectations. 

In the meantime, if you have Time Warner and you're planning on getting TiVO, be forewarned. As a customer, there is no one on your side here.


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

FUD

grow a pair and make your cable company fix their signal problem. If you wanted to figure it out you could pick up another premiere, test it, and then return it. But instead you would rather cry like a baby and trash both companies.


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## mlprice (Apr 5, 2011)

vurbano said:


> FUD
> 
> grow a pair and make your cable company fix their signal problem. If you wanted to figure it out you could pick up another premiere, test it, and then return it. But instead you would rather cry like a baby and trash both companies.


I am no longer in a mood to fight with mental derelicts from Time Warner, or pompous ne'er-do-wells from TiVO. TiVO's service has grown progressively worse over the years. Also, why should I be forced to fight with the cable company to get the product to work? Why doesn't the manufacture step up and take an interest in resolving the issue since they think it is simply a matter of signal quality. Surely they've seen this enough to offer more than, "It's not our box."

You say "Grow a pair and make your cable company fix the problem." Fine, perspective customers should know they will need to "Grow a pair" when dealing with both companies. Your words, not mine Still FUD?


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## pawnslinger (Feb 17, 2012)

A long time ago, I came to the conclusion that the local cable company was a monopoly... and acted like it. High bills and lousy picture quality. I switched to a satellite company. They provided better picture quality, and bigger bills. Then I switched to the "other" satellite company, they had better picture quality, but even bigger bills.

Then I bought a $30 antenna and stuck it in my attic. I got 70 crystal clear channels. I purchased a Tivo Premiere and connected it to the antenna... I am happy. I missed the movies, and some other odd shows, so I subscribed to Netflix and Hulu Plus. I am even happier.

At the end of this month, I will finally cancel my last satellite provided, with a smile. No more big bills. No more crummy picture quality. I am simply floored by how good the OTA digital channels are -- even the crappy SD channels have EXCELLENT picture quality.

So Tivo loses a customer (you, I guess), but they gained a couple (my daughter and I) here in this household.


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## efilippi (Jul 24, 2001)

It's a bit(?) harsh to suggest that the op is at fault and should "...grow a pair." He has a setup that doesn't work and is going through the time-honored blame the other guy dance that so many companies play. I suppose he could go out and buy another box to try to prove who is at fault but that's not a simple solution for most people. And if he did that, and the new one worked, do you think that Tivo would just then take his word for it and send him $500 or whatever it cost? I doubt it.

I had similar problems with pixillation, as have many here on the forums. This is often blamed on hard drive failure issues, under powered signal, and high powered signal. I finally took someones advice and bought some signal atteuators and they seemed to fix the problem, but I Comcast swears their signal is and was fine. I don't know who to blame, but it sure won't be mlprice. He didn't do it.


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## lillevig (Dec 7, 2010)

mlprice said:


> I've got a TiVO Premiere XL. I'm on Time Warner. I must emphatically state that using TiVO with Time Warner is a mistake that you should avoid. The two companies are not cooperative. Time Warner has no vested interest in seeing TiVO be successful, and TiVO's attitude is that if there are any problems, it couldn't possibly be with their box. You are always left in the middle paying through the nose for service that does not work.
> 
> Both companies treat you like an idiot.
> 
> ...


Do you have some sort of tuning adapter in the mix? I've heard that is a problem much of the time. Many of the issues you are having could be due to the hard drive going bad. For starters, try running kickstart code 54 (see link below).

http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-kickstart-codes.php

If there really is some sort of signal level issue, you might want to try connecting a cheap RF poser amp between the cable input and your equipment to see if that settles things down.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

OP- did you come here to complain, or ask for help? (for the most part) This group would much rather respond to a polite request for help than hear a compliant before dropping out.

Just try it out, you already have a few suggestions, some which may be new to you.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

If you really believe it's the Tivo that is defective, call Tivo and tell them it reboots and then gets stuck in a loop while trying to reboot. They can't blame that on the cable company. Then you can get your new unit. If the problems persist, it's the cable company.


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## pawnslinger (Feb 17, 2012)

WhiskeyTango said:


> If you really believe it's the Tivo that is defective, call Tivo and tell them it reboots and then gets stuck in a loop while trying to reboot. They can't blame that on the cable company. Then you can get your new unit. If the problems persist, it's the cable company.


I second this idea... a good suggestion! I don't see how the reboot could be a signal problem.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

pawnslinger said:


> I second this idea... a good suggestion! I don't see how the reboot could be a signal problem.


The problem is that they hear 'Pixelation' and automatically go to signal problem. Leave that part out of the conversation and I bet the OP has better luck with an exchange.


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## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

pawnslinger said:


> I second this idea... a good suggestion! I don't see how the reboot could be a signal problem.


It could be a hard drive issue. I would suggest the OP run Kick Start 54 if they havnt already done so and see if his TiVo throws a fail or will even finish the KS.


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## scole250 (Nov 8, 2005)

I have TWC and I've had problems with the signal too. TWC will hook up a meter and if it's working correctly at that point in time, all they'll say is "I can't see the problem" and leave, but the good techs understand the problem can be intermittent and will work with you to resolve the problem.

First, you have to prove it's not the Tivo which is easy. Put a splitter on the cable before the Tivo and TA and feed the TV thru that. Send the Tivo signal though a different TV input. When the Tivo picture starts acting up, switch to the other input and see if it's acting up, getting pixelization. If so, explain that to TWC and/or tech. A tech in my area gave me his card and said call him when it was acting up and he'd rush over if he was near. They were able to see the problem and determined it was due to an amplifier somewhere down the line. It got fixed though. I wish it were easy enough to just call TWC and they could always fix any issue, but sometimes it's just not that easy. Sometimes you have work with them to isolate and identify the problem.

I also got frustrated with the way the Tivo behaved with the TA. It was flaky and didn't always work. I now have TWC DVRs, not just because of the TA issues, but because TWC killed MRV on the Series 3/HD, which I need. The TWC DVRs I have are even worse than the Tivo/TA combo. They fail to tune a channel just as often and have to be re-booted at least once a week. Pick your poison.


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## mlprice (Apr 5, 2011)

WhiskeyTango said:


> The problem is that they hear 'Pixelation' and automatically go to signal problem. Leave that part out of the conversation and I bet the OP has better luck with an exchange.


The problem with this is that they keep track of the calls. They have it in their heads now that it is a signal strength problem. They won't even entertain the possibility that the issue is with the TiVO Premier XL.

The person I spoke to this morning looked up my previous calls, said "signal strength issue" and sounded instantly relieved that he didn't have to do anything else. When I got upset, he preferred to speak to me about my demeanor. I said, "Let's cut to the chase. Are you going to swap out my box which is under warranty?" He replied "No."

So that's TiVO's support.

So my TiVO will be going to Gazelle.

I'm going to test Time Warner's DVR tomorrow. If it works fine (which I suspect it will), my conclusion will be that the issue is with the TiVO. I will give TiVO one chance to respond as if they gave a hoot whether I remain a customer or not. Should they maintain that it is a signal strength issue, so be it. Account canceled. Device sold.


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## mlprice (Apr 5, 2011)

scole250 said:


> I have TWC and I've had problems with the signal too. TWC will hook up a meter and if it's working correctly at that point in time, all they'll say is "I can't see the problem" and leave, but the good techs understand the problem can be intermittent and will work with you to resolve the problem.
> 
> First, you have to prove it's not the Tivo which is easy. Put a splitter on the cable before the Tivo and TA and feed the TV thru that. Send the Tivo signal though a different TV input. When the Tivo picture starts acting up, switch to the other input and see if it's acting up, getting pixelization. If so, explain that to TWC and/or tech. A tech in my area gave me his card and said call him when it was acting up and he'd rush over if he was near. They were able to see the problem and determined it was due to an amplifier somewhere down the line. It got fixed though. I wish it were easy enough to just call TWC and they could always fix any issue, but sometimes it's just not that easy. Sometimes you have work with them to isolate and identify the problem.
> 
> I also got frustrated with the way the Tivo behaved with the TA. It was flaky and didn't always work. I now have TWC DVRs, not just because of the TA issues, but because TWC killed MRV on the Series 3/HD, which I need. The TWC DVRs I have are even worse than the Tivo/TA combo. They fail to tune a channel just as often and have to be re-booted at least once a week. Pick your poison.


This is an excellent idea, and the amplifier issue is good information.


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## mlprice (Apr 5, 2011)

Well Time Warner called and they're coming out today. Just mentioning Uverse seemed to excite them.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

lillevig said:


> Do you have some sort of tuning adapter in the mix? I've heard that is a problem much of the time.


Not for pixellization, it isn't. Pixellization is an artifact of corrupted data, either from the source, the signal, or the hard drive.



lillevig said:


> Many of the issues you are having could be due to the hard drive going bad. For starters, try running kickstart code 54 (see link below).


Actually, all of them could. The hard drive is also the most likely component failure within the TiVo, followed by the power supply, which could also cause all the issues he has encountered.



lillevig said:


> If there really is some sort of signal level issue, you might want to try connecting a cheap RF poser amp between the cable input and your equipment to see if that settles things down.


Not really. First of all, signal levels, although the first thing to check, are not the only issues which can cause signal related problems, by a long shot. Distortion, noise, and interference are all problematical, and can possibly exist in a system where signal levels are perfect. Secondly, high signal levels are as much or more of a problem than low signal levels, particlualrly with digital signals.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

mlprice said:


> The problem with this is that they keep track of the calls. They have it in their heads now that it is a signal strength problem. They won't even entertain the possibility that the issue is with the TiVO Premier XL.
> 
> The person I spoke to this morning looked up my previous calls, said "signal strength issue" and sounded instantly relieved that he didn't have to do anything else. When I got upset, he preferred to speak to me about my demeanor. I said, "Let's cut to the chase. Are you going to swap out my box which is under warranty?" He replied "No."
> 
> ...


I'd try calling back and speaking with someone else and just tell them that the situation has gotten worse and now the Tivo is stuck in a loop and won't boot. If they still shoot you down, then go ahead and bail. It definitely sounds like the HD is dying.


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

Unhook the cable and try playback. Still rebooting? Not a signal problem.

Hook up a cheap indoor antenna and re-run guided set-up. Still rebooting? Not a signal problem.

Even if you don't do the above, call TiVo and tell you did and it's still re-booting.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

I knew that this Community could help you out. Looks like you have a multitude of options to hopefully help you now. Make sure to report back what you find.


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

This is the 4th thread OP has started on this subject in the past 10 months. I would have solved this problem, one way or the other, long before now.


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## Len McRiddles (Dec 21, 2002)

Good bye, good luck.


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## gteague (Apr 1, 2007)

it's glaringly obvious that most of the people replying on here have never dealt with time-warner. they have absolutely no escalation path and even if you show up in their office they will not admit to having any supervisors or managers, much less let you have access to one. 

i've found nearly everyone in customer service to be friendly and seemingly willing to help, but all are castrated by not having access to anything but the most basic of resources and troubleshooting tools and, to a person, are absolutely terrified of asking anyone else in the company for help. and every one of them is completely brainwashed by being 100% convinced they not only know exactly what your problem is, but that they can personally solve your problem and no matter that 10 reps or techs before them have tried the exact same thing, they will continue to run through their checklist of useless procedures.

it is trivially easy to boast that '... i would have solved it months ago' without knowing what you are up against. and from a fios user, no less. most of us trapped on tw would kill to get fios, you are way out of line (possibly delusional) to assume you could bend time-warner to your will.

/guy


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

gteague said:


> ....it is trivially easy to boast that '... i would have solved it months ago' without knowing what you are up against. ....


Since I'm the only poster in this thread that has used the word "solved", can I assume you are quoting me?

If so, please be more fair to my quote and use the whole quote and context. I did say I would have solved it one way or the other and by that I meant I would have either resoved the TiVo/TW issue or gone in an entirely different direction by now such as the OP appears to be doing by now. No way I'd put up with it for this long.


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## gteague (Apr 1, 2007)

janry said:


> Since I'm the only poster in this thread that has used the word "solved", can I assume you are quoting me?


i was indeed combining the 'fios user':



vurbano said:


> FUD
> grow a pair and make your cable company fix their signal problem.


and the word 'solved' from your assertion:



janry said:


> I would have solved this problem, one way or the other, long before now.





janry said:


> If so, please be more fair to my quote and use the whole quote and context. I did say I would have solved it one way or the other and by that I meant I would have either resoved the TiVo/TW issue or gone in an entirely different direction by now such as the OP appears to be doing by now. No way I'd put up with it for this long.


going in a new direction does not mean the original problem is 'solved', you have just chosen to walk away from it. that is stretching the definition of 'solution'.

/guy


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

gteague said:


> .going in a new direction does not mean the original problem is 'solved', you have just chosen to walk away from it. that is stretching the definition of 'solution'.
> 
> /guy


That would depend on your definition of the problem. I consider the problem to be unacceptable media service, not just narrowing it to the TiVo/TW issue in the problem. I would definately not live with shoddy service for 10 months

And as far as you combining my statement with the statement from someone else, well that pretty much sums up all I need to know from you.


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## gteague (Apr 1, 2007)

ha ha! considering a problem solved by walking away from it sums up something about you as well. i think we're done here.

/guy


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

mlprice said:


> I've got a TiVO Premiere XL. I'm on Time Warner. I must emphatically state that using TiVO with Time Warner is a mistake that you should avoid.


I've used lots of cable companies over the years and Time Warner is the only one I have never had a single cablecard or tuning adapter issue with. A lot of it has to do with where you live. When I had TWC, I lived in one of the few places they put all channels on SDV. Because of this, they made sure tuning adapters and cablecards were always up to date with the latest firmware (monthly updates seemingly). I never had a single issue. Having the more HD channels than any other TWC market made it even nicer.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

I hate TWC as much as the next guy, but the only problem we have is their stupid tuning adapter which screws up the TiVo (but that was solved in another thread here--sorry, can't link on the phone, but my TA is now on a timer). Otherwise, no problems at all. 

/knocking on wood since we just got a Premiere as a second unit


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## mlprice (Apr 5, 2011)

I don't have a tuning adapter. Just Tivo Premier XL connected directly cable. Well bottom line, even though TiVO refused to listen to me, told me I had a signal problem, the Time Warner piece of crap DVR works just fine. Not a single dropped frame for several hours. 

When I originally called TiVO, I felt it was a hard disk problem, ESPECIALLY when you consider that I couldn't play back programs that were recorded before the trouble started. I was told that a signal problem would prevent me from playing back content from before the signal problem started and that it was normal for a signal problem to cause the TiVO to reboot over and over and over when trying to play back content. 

Right.

TiVO would not listen. They just plugged me into their script, said "Signal Problem" and so now, I'm just one less customer.


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## mlprice (Apr 5, 2011)

Just for fun, I'm gonna give them a call and see what they say now.


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## mlprice (Apr 5, 2011)

gteague said:


> it's glaringly obvious that most of the people replying on here have never dealt with time-warner. they have absolutely no escalation path and even if you show up in their office they will not admit to having any supervisors or managers, much less let you have access to one.
> 
> i've found nearly everyone in customer service to be friendly and seemingly willing to help, but all are castrated by not having access to anything but the most basic of resources and troubleshooting tools and, to a person, are absolutely terrified of asking anyone else in the company for help. and every one of them is completely brainwashed by being 100% convinced they not only know exactly what your problem is, but that they can personally solve your problem and no matter that 10 reps or techs before them have tried the exact same thing, they will continue to run through their checklist of useless procedures.
> 
> ...


It's the finger pointing that gets me. I would think that TiVO would go out of their way to build a stronger working relationship with Time Warner. TiVO should have specialists that deal specifically with Time Warner. They should maintain a user accessible Time Warner issue database online. Not just Time Warner, but all the providers they deal with. Instead the customer is stuck holding two phones, one to each ear, and listening to relative apathy in both. Rather than being cooperative, it's as if the companies are at odds with each other. Time Warner competes with TiVO. They want me paying the monthly fee for their DVR. It's totally understandable that they will do little to assist TiVO. This is why the onus is on TiVO. They NEED Time Warner, not the other way around.


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## vio2112 (Apr 18, 2011)

mlprice said:


> Just for fun, I'm gonna give them a call and see what they say now.


Have fun talking to their pre-recorded message. They've closed shop for the day.


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## gteague (Apr 1, 2007)

based on my experience with the s3 and the elite, these models don't sandbox signal problems well at all and allow them to bleed into aspects of viewing you'd never imagine. for example, i was watching a recording last night from about 6 hours previous and it was noisy and horribly pixellated and of course i <ass>umed that it had been recorded that way. right after i noticed this i dropped out to live tv and realized that there was noise and pixellation in real time as well, and indeed, very shortly afterwards lost all my channels and the tivo had to be rebooted to recover which is the ongoing problem i've had since i bought the elite nearly 3 months ago.

but the kicker was that after the reboot i called up the previously unwatchable recording from 6 hours before and it was as pristine as it comes--perfect quality. so the bad signal and noise was actually bleeding through into playback mode, onto a previously recorded show. in receivers, this is engineering101 to filter and sandbox input signal in order to keep such things from happening although any receiver can be over-loaded, yielding similar results.

so if tivo is right about the signal problem causing your playback problem they could simply be acknowledging that their engineering is not up to the task of filtering out incoming signal overloads and noise. it's like those $19.99 cb radios they used to sell where all the channels bled together in urban areas.

/guy


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

mlprice, you obviously are willing to spend time defending your position here. It's too bad you didn't post asking for help before you gave up on TiVo. Sudden problem onset after a year of good operation most likely means a hard drive problem although it's possible your TWC signal quality worsened for some reason. In either case there are a number of rather simple and quick troubleshooting steps that will shed light on such problems and which several forum members would have been happy to guide you through doing.

If TiVo support is saying you have signal problems, I assume they took you through some diagnostic steps that are available to read signal strengths and SNR from your TiVo menus and these would have to support their claim. The parts and labor portion of the warranty is 90 days, so even if they were willing to replace your unit it's going to cost you.


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## pawnslinger (Feb 17, 2012)

mlprice said:


> I don't have a tuning adapter. Just Tivo Premier XL connected directly cable. Well bottom line, even though TiVO refused to listen to me, told me I had a signal problem, the Time Warner piece of crap DVR works just fine. Not a single dropped frame for several hours.
> 
> When I originally called TiVO, I felt it was a hard disk problem, ESPECIALLY when you consider that I couldn't play back programs that were recorded before the trouble started. I was told that a signal problem would prevent me from playing back content from before the signal problem started and that it was normal for a signal problem to cause the TiVO to reboot over and over and over when trying to play back content.
> 
> ...


Whenever possible, it would be a good idea to try and separate the issues when calling customer service (Tivo's or the cable company). Someone mentioned connecting an antenna to the Tivo and see if still has a problem, without the cable being connected. And the same thing when calling the cable company... try to plug their signal directly into the TV (it should be able to get the basic channels... at least my TV will). Reporting these things individually to the correct customer service will increase your cred with them A LOT.

You shouldn't ever tell the cable company that your Tivo is acting up... nor tell Tivo that you're have having potential signal problems with the cable company... in my experience, pixelation is almost always a signal problem, but reboots and crashes are almost always the hdd (and the power supply a close 2nd).

With my antenna setup, I sometimes get pixelation, but once I installed a cheap in-line amplifier, the problems disappeared. Now it is possible that the signal can be too strong also, so a signal attenuator can also be a handy debug tool.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

pawnslinger said:


> in my experience, pixelation is almost always a signal problem, but reboots and crashes are almost always the hdd (and the power supply a close 2nd).


Unfortunately, toxic channels (faulty data structure, noise, etc) also can cause reboots and hard drive damage that, in turn, becomes its own problem.

I had a very early Tivo 3 and also (literally) helped nursemaid a local station through its digital transformation. Our local cable operator was in shellshock for nearly a year. The issues are incredibly complex and intertwined.

Companies don't point fingers at each other from malice, they point fingers at each other 'cause they have no idea what is going on an they're scared to death.

You can't be cutting edge in an environment like this if you're simply trying to give your family TV. I buy lots of gear to play with, but you've got to have a conservative, stable, behind-the-times methodology for family use.


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## pawnslinger (Feb 17, 2012)

Wil said:


> Unfortunately, toxic channels (faulty data structure, noise, etc) also can cause reboots and hard drive damage that, in turn, becomes its own problem.
> 
> I had a very early Tivo 3 and also (literally) helped nursemaid a local station through its digital transformation. Our local cable operator was in shellshock for nearly a year. The issues are incredibly complex and intertwined.
> 
> ...


I agree with you, but I guess I didn't make my point.

In any mixed vendor situation, it is always best to try and separate the issues into as isolated chunks as possible. For example, in this case, if the customer suspects signal problem, I think he should try to demonstrate the issue apart from the Tivo. And just report the signal problem without mention of the Tivo.

And yes, sometimes it may be impossible to separate the issues. But I have found it is best to try and reproduce the problem in a single vendor venue. Of course, you can never really have a single vendor situation, not in its purest form. Because there are always other things involved, like the TV or wiring. The last time I myself had a problem similar to this one, it was found to be a bad splitter that was the culprit. It was very hard to track down, but trial and error finally pinned it down... in the meanwhile, I had swapped out most of the rest of my wiring and STBs. A real pain to find it was just a lowly splitter that had gone bad (actually it was a diplexer... a fancy satellite splitter).


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

mlprice said:


> Well Time Warner called and they're coming out today. Just mentioning Uverse seemed to excite them.


Gee, it must be nice to have some leverage over TWC.


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## mlprice (Apr 5, 2011)

dlfl said:


> mlprice, you obviously are willing to spend time defending your position here. It's too bad you didn't post asking for help before you gave up on TiVo. Sudden problem onset after a year of good operation most likely means a hard drive problem although it's possible your TWC signal quality worsened for some reason. In either case there are a number of rather simple and quick troubleshooting steps that will shed light on such problems and which several forum members would have been happy to guide you through doing.
> 
> If TiVo support is saying you have signal problems, I assume they took you through some diagnostic steps that are available to read signal strengths and SNR from your TiVo menus and these would have to support their claim. The parts and labor portion of the warranty is 90 days, so even if they were willing to replace your unit it's going to cost you.


Their claim is refuted by the fact that I have a separate DVR working with absolutely no problems.

The issue is their boxed in thinking, and lack of interest in helping.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

So, what are the results of the suggestions you have been provided with? There are some good ones that, as far as we can tell, have been ignored.

My guess is that its a disc problem, and if they don't seem to point to TWC, try to heal thyself.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

I agree with the OPs frustration. I made the opposite decision some 4 years ago. Comcrap was told to take a flying leap and I went OTA. I was apprehensive about it but has worked out very well. All our media now comes OTA, internet or online rental.

Saving over $100 a month in our budget has had nice benefits as well. Tivo made this work, and work well.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

Just, FYI, this is exactly what Time Warner wants you to do. Congrats, you let them.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

janry said:


> This is the 4th thread OP has started on this subject in the past 10 months. I would have solved this problem, one way or the other, long before now.


Actually not quite true. Searching the OP's other posts, it appears the other threads all concerned his initial problems with CableCARD and only this thread concerns his NEW problem that started after a year of good operation.

Interesting thing learned from his earlier posts is this is his third Premiere, i.e., TiVo has already replaced his unit 2 or 3 times. Also, there appear to have been a lot of problems with TWC and TiVo's in the LA area. So, given that record, it's not surprising TiVo is not jumping at the chance to replace yet another TiVo for him -- although the evidence now seems to suggest the problem was indeed the TiVo.

I agree that customer service for many products and services (including TiVo and TWC) is terrible. However, it's not going to change unless consumers are willing to pay perhaps 10% (or more) additional for products that have better customer service. *Good customer service costs*. Currently customer service is designed to be able to handle the most common, easily diagnosed, problems, i.e., the low hanging fruit. This will satisfy a majority of complaining consumers and it isn't worth it to the vendor to pay twice as much for better employees and better training --- and accept the drop in sales that would occur because they would have to increase the price of their product or service.


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## pmiranda (Feb 12, 2003)

dlfl said:


> Interesting thing learned from his earlier posts is this is his third Premiere, i.e., TiVo has already replaced his unit 2 or 3 times. Also, there appear to have been a lot of problems with TWC and TiVo's in the LA area. So, given that record, it's not surprising TiVo is not jumping at the chance to replace yet another TiVo for him -- although the evidence now seems to suggest the problem was indeed the TiVo.


Sounds like a problem customer to me. Now that there's a national cablecard self-install support center for TW, I wouldn't hesitate to get a TiVo on any TW system. Of course, if you don't know about or don't want to self-install, and you're not willing to debug anything yourself, then you should just pay more for a crappy cableco box.

Having said that, it sure sounds like a bad hard drive to me, and the OP needs to emphasis to TiVo support that the thing is rebooting and the cable company has verified good signal quality.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

mlprice said:


> Their claim is refuted by the fact that I have a separate DVR working with absolutely no problems.
> 
> The issue is their boxed in thinking, and lack of interest in helping.


Have you tried disconnecting the cable input from the working DVR and connecting it to the malfunctioning DVR? and vice-versa? Surely Tivo would honor your warranty if you have evidence that a second DVR is functioning from the same video source as the malfunctioning DVR.


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

Oh holy crap on a stick. Go put a new unit on a credit card, test it and then either return it because there is no problem or return your existing unit because you have proven it defective. Either do something or leave.


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## warrenn (Jun 24, 2004)

pmiranda said:


> Sounds like a problem customer to me. Now that there's a national cablecard self-install support center for TW, I wouldn't hesitate to get a TiVo on any TW system. Of course, if you don't know about or don't want to self-install, and you're not willing to debug anything yourself, then you should just pay more for a crappy cableco box.


I have TW/CableCard/Tuning Adapter and I've been ready to chunk the whole thing. I've had techs come out multiple times because the TA keeps going offline. I even complained to the FCC, and TW assigned a special person for me to call. After a couple of months of issues, she said that it's normal behavior to have to reboot the TA once a month or so when it goes offline. So basically, STFU and deal with it.

I don't mind debugging stuff. I've pretty much isolated the issue to the TA. But a lot of good that does. TW's attitude is just, oh well. I've told them they should tell Cisco to improve the box so that it realizes when it goes offline, but they didn't even want to do that. It's really frustrating dealing with them. If your TW/CableCard/TA works great, lucky you! But for those of us whose system goes offline every 4-6 weeks, there's not much of a good solution.

One thing I don't understand is why Tivo doesn't try to do something about it. I'm so close to dumping Tivo because I'm tired of missing shows. Why doesn't Tivo add better debugging and logging for this situation? Or try to kick-start the TA itself? If the TA protocol doesn't allow the Tivo to reboot it, Tivo needs to work to get the protocol enhanced.

It's in TW's interested for the TA to suck. People get frustrated with the problems and switch to a TW box. Tivo has the financial interest to make the setup work so they don't lose customers.


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## gteague (Apr 1, 2007)

substitute cable card for tuning adaptor and i have a very similar problem. if i can reseat the cable card and it fixes the problem, not being any sort of a programmer, my question is: why can't tivo have their software soft-reboot the cable card when it recognizes the signal is overloaded with noise and/or loses sync? my recordings would still be mucked up, but at least i wouldn't lose 12-24 hours of recordings by the tivo being frozen on a gray screen.

and @pmiranda, inre the tw pairing center. this service has been useful, but no means a solution for me. i now know most of the techs at both centers (self-install and tw internal field tech center--same location, different phone number) by first name and their extended hours only allow me to log longer phone calls!

the problem is that those folks, no matter how friendly and willing to help, are powerless in the face of the indifference of the local cable office. the pairing center insists they have no inside or escalation numbers to my local office and when they open tickets to them, they are ignored.

imo, the bottom line is that tw wants absolutely nothing to do with cable cards or tivo. and tivo doesn't want to admit they are in a symbiotic relationship with a company that considers them a (high) cost line-item at worst and a pest at best.

/guy


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## pmiranda (Feb 12, 2003)

I will have completely jinxed myself by saying it, but for a year I had a TA that worked more reliably than my S3. It also seems like the Premiere finally tries a bit harder to retune than my S3 did... something that's been lacking in TiVo's software since the days of the S1 and IR blasters.
One problem I figured out with a TA two years ago was that it had never actually been assigned to my account, so the headend would let the sub expire on it every month until I called... then the tech would get a hit sent to it to turn it back on, but it wasn't until they fixed my account that it would keep working for more than a month at a time. Unfortunately some things are still under local control.


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## gteague (Apr 1, 2007)

pmiranda said:


> One problem I figured out with a TA two years ago was that it had never actually been assigned to my account, so the headend would let the sub expire on it every month until I called... then the tech would get a hit sent to it to turn it back on, but it wasn't until they fixed my account that it would keep working for more than a month at a time. Unfortunately some things are still under local control.


aside from my current cc problem that cropped up when i replaced an s3 with an elite (which raises the question of why the elite won't work with the exact same setup and cards that an s3 was working fine with) every time they re-arrange or add channels or do maintenance to the sdv servers at the headend (hope i got the phrasing right--i know next-to-nothing about the tuning adaptor subsystem) i lose my service and the tuning adaptor (motorola) blinks red. calling the local office does no good whatsoever because that reset signal they send has no effect. all i can do is wait for 24-48 hours and it recovers on its own. i can only conclude that eventually someone in the sdv center sees something wrong and corrects it--i have no other explanation. this happens pretty regularly approx every 3 months and is extremely frustrating.

i literarily wouldn't wish time-warner on my worst enemy. the sooner their virtual monopoly ends or tivo recognizes they are poison to their financial survival the better. i flat out do not understand why tivo can't make a deal to supply tivo boxes _*without* cable cards or tuning adaptors_--direct coax input--to time-warner that tw can rent out as their own and thus every tivo install would add to their bottom line instead of subtract from it.

/guy


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## mlprice (Apr 5, 2011)

Canceling TiVO now. Interestingly enough, the TiVO guy on the other end now says he had the same problem so he understood the frustration.


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## pmiranda (Feb 12, 2003)

gteague said:


> I flat out do not understand why tivo can't make a deal to supply tivo boxes _*without* cable cards or tuning adaptors_--direct coax input--to time-warner that tw can rent out as their own and thus every tivo install would add to their bottom line instead of subtract from it.
> 
> /guy


If it's a neutered box without the ability to pull in 3rd party content (like the DirecTiVos), I don't want it. Even TW's own settops use cablecards now by FCC mandate, so the only real problem is TiVo not building a reverse data channel transmitter into the box for content selection and debug, which they didn't do because it'd be different for Motorola and Cisco headends. 
The TA (or cable box) runs software and hardware controlled by the cableco, and has just as much support and debug capability as the cableco wants. I suspect Austin has pretty good TA support now since some of the techs actually have TiVos :up:

I thought DFW had FIOS available... or is that only some areas?


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## gteague (Apr 1, 2007)

pmiranda said:


> I thought DFW had FIOS available... or is that only some areas?


not my area, unfortunately. i'd be on it like white on rice.

/guy


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

gteague said:


> why can't tivo have their software soft-reboot the cable card when it recognizes the signal is overloaded with noise and/or loses sync?


Same goes for for the tuning adapter. When it goes I'm losing every recording in an 8-12 hour block. Only a power-off reboot of the TA fixes it. A software-generated reboot of the TA, as you suggest, after a 5-10 minute window of signal loss would be a great fix, especially when the TA seems to have a regularly scheduled monthly failure built into it.

Perhaps even worse, the TiVo is completely silent when recordings fail due to total signal loss. What it should do is generate a Message, like it does for channel lineup changes, for each scheduled recording that fails warning the user about said failure.


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## pmiranda (Feb 12, 2003)

tivogurl said:


> Perhaps even worse, the TiVo is completely silent when recordings fail due to total signal loss. What it should do is generate a Message, like it does for channel lineup changes, for each scheduled recording that fails warning the user about said failure.


+1 million!

Even when mine is working right, I still check the to-done list every week looking for "video signal not found" messages.

If I could easily access the list from a computer I could do it automatically with a script.


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## 4dolfin (Feb 28, 2012)

It took a long time but it can be done. 

This is what I had to do to get my TiVo to work on TWC. 

First: When requesting a service visit first ask for an actual TWC technician and not a contracted technician. If you meet any resistance, reiterate a bit more sternly that you do not like the quality of work that contracted technicians do and if TWC is not willing to accommodate this request you will explore other options for service in your area. This is because, at least in my area, the contracted technicians are paid by job and actual TWC technicians are paid by the hour. I had a contracted tech skip out in the middle of a job because it was taking too long. 

Second: Tell them upfront that you are installing a TiVo box and need the installer to bring a multicast card. Ask them to bring both a scientific american and motorola card. If your TiVo has two slots also ask them to have the technician bring the multicast cards or two single cast cards. 

Third: Prepare for the long wait while the technician is there. Be as hospitable as possible. Offer something to drink, to sit down while he is on the phone reading the long strings of numbers, have a pizza waiting in case it does take a while. 

This whole process took me over three hours. He had to try several cable cards and switched video boxes until he found a pair that worked together. 

Finally make sure you test a switched video channel. In my area that could be something like College ESPN channel or Golf Channel.

Lastly ask him for his cell phone number in case something doesn't work right. I have found actual TWC technicians are more than happy for you to follow-up directly with them if there is an issue. If you call back and request another follow-up for the same issue that counts against them.


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## pmiranda (Feb 12, 2003)

When everything goes just right, you walk into the TW service branch and pick up a TA and the cablecards, you go home and hook it all up, you do guided setup on your TiVo with the new lineup (if you haven't already), you call the national CC self-install line at 866-606-5889, they get the information they need from you, send a few hits and wait on the phone until everything is working. You could be up and running in an hour.
It's also possible that when you say you have a TiVo and they roll a truck to provide the cards and TA that they send somebody that knows what they're doing. I'm batting about .400 on that, but it's been getting better.
They generally only have m cards these days, so if you have a newer HD or Premiere then you have a good shot.
If the TA sub is expired, the CC self-install people can fix it. (An otherwise knowledgeable tech told me otherwise but he was wrong.)


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

I hear all of these frustrations with cable providers, but my provider, Insight, has been as easy as could be. I ask for a cable card, they tell me to stop by and pick it up, I do. It has a phone number in the box. I put in the card, call the number, give them the info, shoot the **** with the tech for 10 minutes while it syncs up, and everything works great.

Way back when the S3 came out it was a little trickier, but the Premiere was as simple as could be.

TW is trying to buy Insight, and this scares the crap out of me now. I may cancel cable when that happens.


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## warrenn (Jun 24, 2004)

tivogurl said:


> Perhaps even worse, the TiVo is completely silent when recordings fail due to total signal loss. What it should do is generate a Message, like it does for channel lineup changes, for each scheduled recording that fails warning the user about said failure.


This is a fantastic idea. Generate a message when the signal is not there. It may be several days before I realize the TA has gone out--usually because I start wondering why none of my shows were getting recorded. Having a message show up would allow me to reboot the TA much sooner.


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## pmiranda (Feb 12, 2003)

If the TA were nice enough to drop the USB link when it went zombie then you'd get a message, but that's usually not the case. On rare occasions the power light will go out on the TA to indicate that it's dead, but usually it just stops working and everything appears to be fine.
At one point I thought that the Premiere handled failure to tune better than the S3 since it gives a slightly more useful message on screen if you happen to catch it in the act, but it doesn't actually try to tune again, since if I catch it and go up a channel and back, it will tune in again just fine.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

pmiranda said:


> If the TA were nice enough to drop the USB link when it went zombie then you'd get a message, but that's usually not the case.


It doesn't need that. All you need is the TiVo to notice that no signal is incoming and kick the TA. I know the TiVo can detect that condition, because it leaves messages in the recording history saying "couldn't record, no signal". If the TA won't respond to USB communications when it is in this state is another matter entirely.


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