# Bolt's 3 biggest mistakes



## craigwf (Dec 23, 2015)

1) it uses the 2.5" hdd that laptops have found to be unreliable compared to the standard 3.5" drives that all prior Tivo versions have successfully used. The major suppliers of those smaller drives are second rate: Seagate and Toshiba. The major suppliers of the larger sized drives have much better reliability stats: Western Digital and Hitachi. Is Tivo just counting on people choosing to buy a new Tivo when their hdd fails?

2) and 3) are the shape and color of the case, both of which contrast with everything else I have in my entertainment center. Nice try Tivo. Now please go back to what is tried and true: rectangular and black.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

agree

but the one big plus is the MB is smaller now. If Tivo were smart they would integrate these boards into TV's, Blu-Ray players ect. . Like these new Roku tv's.

A customer could just plug in an external HDD and have recording capabilities and thus a new revenue stream for Tivo.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

foghorn2 said:


> agree
> 
> but the one big plus is the MB is smaller now. If Tivo were smart they would integrate these boards into TV's, Blu-Ray players ect. . Like these new Roku tv's.
> 
> A customer could just plug in an external HDD and have recording capabilities and thus a new revenue stream for Tivo.


That would be the last thing I want. I don't want devices like a TiVo integrated into a TV. If you have a stand alone box, it much easier to fix if there are issues. If it's integrated into the TV then it can be a pain.

At work we used to have TVs with built in DVD and/VCRs. But then when there were issues you were out the entire TV to get it fixed. So they moved away from the built in DVD/VCRs to separate stand alone boxes.


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## JBDragon (Jan 4, 2004)

foghorn2 said:


> agree
> 
> but the one big plus is the MB is smaller now. If Tivo were smart they would integrate these boards into TV's, Blu-Ray players ect. . Like these new Roku tv's.
> 
> A customer could just plug in an external HDD and have recording capabilities and thus a new revenue stream for Tivo.


Roku's don't have a HDD. They stream all their content through the Internet. There's not much to them. Still a ROKU built into a TV is really just a Smart TV, just using ROKU instead of their own setup. I'm really not a fan of SmartTV's. Once they sell it to you, they don't really care what happens after. The Smart stuff after a couple years gets outdated, no longer supported. The Smart stuff slowly stops working. It gets slower.

A TV you may have 10+ years. Getting a Stand alone Box is much better. A ROKU or AppleTV, or whatever, and in a few years, Upgrade to something even better. As the Streaming Box is their whole business, they are supporting their hardware far, far better.

I do think going to a 2.5" HDD in the BOLT was a dumb move!!! 3.5" is more Reliable, cheaper, more options. Really, how small does it have to be? It's a device that sits in one spot and never moves. With the KINK in the bolt, is it really that much smaller to even care about? I still have my BIG old Philips Tivo from 1999 and I wouldn't care if it was that big today. Throw in side a second HDD and expand it myself would be cool. I put my Roamio OTA on top of another device and it's really not that big of a deal. I never once though, Man, I wish this was smaller and not taking up as much space. It's like Apple and their thinness kick. It's to thin already, I had to throw a case on it to bulk the thing up so it wouldn't slip fro my hand.

I would rather have a bit larger bolt with a 3.5" HDD in it. Combo Units in general really SUCK! A Router built into a cable modem for example stinks!! I warned a person at work not to get one and he still did and then *****ed about slow WIFI. He returned it, got cable modem and a Wifi Router and what did you know, Wifi speeds greatly increased. Later maybe he'll want to upgrade the Router for a newer Wifi protocol, while the cable modem is still perfectly good. Same goes with TV's The TV will last a long time in general, and maybe you upgrade or switch your Boxes attached to it a few times. A Tivo built in? No thanks. I'd take the DUMB TV every single time.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2016)

craigwf said:


> 1) it uses the 2.5" hdd that laptops have found to be unreliable compared to the standard 3.5" drives that all prior Tivo versions have successfully used. The major suppliers of those smaller drives are second rate: Seagate and Toshiba. The major suppliers of the larger sized drives have much better reliability stats: Western Digital and Hitachi. Is Tivo just counting on people choosing to buy a new Tivo when their hdd fails?


The Motorola DVRs on Shaw Satellite (out of Canada) went to 2.5" HDD 3 years ago. I have already gone through 2 and I do not use it that much. Everyone I know has gone through at least 1. Anyone not getting a 3 Year Extended Warranty on a Bolt is really crazy, imho (sorry EJ).



JBDragon said:


> Roku's don't have a HDD. They stream all their content through the Internet.


There is a hack if you search the internet.


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## wkearney99 (Dec 5, 2003)

JBDragon said:


> A TV you may have 10+ years. Getting a Stand alone Box is much better.
> 
> I do think going to a 2.5" HDD in the BOLT was a dumb move!!!
> 
> No thanks. I'd take the DUMB TV every single time.


I suspect the move to 2.5 is driven by someone's spreadsheet of numbers. Shipping larger drives around no doubt shows up as a number somewhere, and cost-savings on the manufacturing side can be remarkably stupid long-term. Time will tell. As long as it a unit can automagically rebuild itself from a bare drive I don't suppose I care all that much anymore.

I likewise agree that you'd almost always better off with a 'dumb' TV and a separate box. It complicates things little, what with potentially needing separate inputs, power outlets and network connections. But you're definitely going to avoid being 'held hostage' by poorly handled vendor updates. Few consumer electronics vendors (none?) have any kind of decent track record for keeping things up to date. It's all about moving to the next generation gear, as in selling that to you, not updating their legacy mistakes.

Me, I'm not compelled by any of the Bolt's new features, certainly not enough to justify the price hike.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

craigwf said:


> 1) it uses the 2.5" hdd that laptops have found to be unreliable compared to the standard 3.5" drives that all prior Tivo versions have successfully used. The major suppliers of those smaller drives are second rate: Seagate and Toshiba. The major suppliers of the larger sized drives have much better reliability stats: Western Digital and Hitachi. Is Tivo just counting on people choosing to buy a new Tivo when their hdd fails?
> 
> 2) and 3) are the shape and color of the case, both of which contrast with everything else I have in my entertainment center. Nice try Tivo. Now please go back to what is tried and true: rectangular and black.


Posts from early upgraders tell us tivo is still using WD drives.
http://i.imgur.com/xO7kXfZ.jpg AFAIK tivo is continuing to use WD drives. What drives do you think tivo is using? Why let facts get in the way.

I haven't read any credible reports suggesting 2.5" drives are inherently more reliable then 3.5" drives. Do you have any facts to support your claim? Link to a credible source? No question drives used in laptop computers, which are subject to physical abuse, are going to fail more then drives used in desktop computers and other devices which aren't moved (tivo).

Bolt is designed to appeal to new customers. The design looks like something Apple might come up with. Makes sense to me.

JMO--biggest mistake releasing the product before the software (at least to support streaming) was working.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

craigwf said:


> 1) it uses the 2.5" hdd that laptops have found to be unreliable compared to the standard 3.5" drives that all prior Tivo versions have successfully used. The major suppliers of those smaller drives are second rate: Seagate and Toshiba. The major suppliers of the larger sized drives have much better reliability stats: Western Digital and Hitachi. Is Tivo just counting on people choosing to buy a new Tivo when their hdd fails?
> 
> 2) and 3) are the shape and color of the case, both of which contrast with everything else I have in my entertainment center. Nice try Tivo. Now please go back to what is tried and true: rectangular and black.


2.5" drives generally have the same reliability as 3.5" *IF THEY ARE USED IN A DESKTOP PC OR SERVER*. What makes laptop drives less reliable is that laptop PCs move, and any movement is potentially damaging to a hard drive. As far as reliability between manufacturers, well that's a whole other discussion. Things are not always as they seem. It is difficult to say if a specific hard drive is less reliable just because it has company X's label on it.

The curved shape of the Bolt makes it a non-starter for me, because I have to put my Blu-ray player on top of it. I suppose I could make or buy a mini-shelf, but why should I have to?

The Bolt's biggest mistake is that the service pricing is too high for both lifetime and annual payments.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

I agree a seperate Tivo box is better, but my idea of integration is to help TIVO expand its market and make it easier to gain a customer and thus increase revenue/subscriptions.

Not for us.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

craigwf said:


> Is Tivo just counting on people choosing to buy a new Tivo when their hdd fails?


Since they now offer a continual warranty the answer is no. Since if they thought these were going to be less reliable it would cost them more in the long run, not you.

I suspect it had to do with manufacturing cost. They were trying to get the costs of these Bolts down as low as possible.


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## Rob772 (Jan 3, 2016)

I've read on this site that getting the external hard drive accessory from tivo itself is almost non-existent. Why can't the Bolt support any esata external hard drive that is formatted to tivo requirements? Seems like hardware support is lacking as well (advertising an unavailable accessory)


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

It only works with the WD DVR Expander. They use to allow any eSATA drive back on the S3, but people ran into issues with some drives not being fast enough. So they changed it to only qualified drives. But so far only that one drive has ever been qualified and it's getting harder to find.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

craigwf said:


> 1) it uses the 2.5" hdd that laptops have found to be unreliable compared to the standard 3.5" drives that all prior Tivo versions have successfully used. The major suppliers of those smaller drives are second rate: Seagate and Toshiba. The major suppliers of the larger sized drives have much better reliability stats: Western Digital and Hitachi. Is Tivo just counting on people choosing to buy a new Tivo when their hdd fails?
> 
> 2) and 3) are the shape and color of the case, both of which contrast with everything else I have in my entertainment center. Nice try Tivo. Now please go back to what is tried and true: rectangular and black.


I thought it was easier to replace a hard drive in the newer Tivos because you didn't have to image the drive before installation. The only mistake I see here is the increased level of difficulty in accessing the drive on the bolt.

I think the color and shape are a ploy to entice you to buy a mini and hide the tivo.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

shwru980r said:


> I thought it was easier to replace a hard drive in the newer Tivos because you didn't have to image the drive before installation. The only mistake I see here is the increased level of difficulty in accessing the drive on the bolt.
> 
> I think the color and shape are a ploy to entice you to buy a mini and hide the tivo.


Only a Mini cannot fully replace a Bolt or Roamio.


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## sangs (Jan 1, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> It only works with the WD DVR Expander. They use to allow any eSATA drive back on the S3, but people ran into issues with some drives not being fast enough. So they changed it to only qualified drives. But so far only that one drive has ever been qualified and it's getting harder to find.


I have a couple of lightly used ones for sale if anybody is interested. Feel free to PM me.


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## LoREvanescence (Jun 19, 2007)

BobCamp1 said:


> The Bolt's biggest mistake is that the service pricing is too high for both lifetime and annual payments.


I actually don't think so. Unless you are grandfathered in on a cheaper rate.

When I had my premiere hooked up I was paying like $12.95 or $12.99 a month, some thing in that ball park and that was a grandfathered in price as monthly service is more expensive than that now.

It's less than $150 a year for service on the Bold so it's in the same ball park and the first year free is huge.

This is one of the cheaper costs up front to buy a TiVo. I paid like $800 for my Series 3 before any service.

I don't know if they offer multiple service discounts with the Bolt, and if they don't then I ca see this a valid point or if the up front cost of paying by the year other than the month is to much. But I tend to like to pay services like this by the year.


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## JBDragon (Jan 4, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> It only works with the WD DVR Expander. They use to allow any eSATA drive back on the S3, but people ran into issues with some drives not being fast enough. So they changed it to only qualified drives. But so far only that one drive has ever been qualified and it's getting harder to find.


That seems strange as TIVO's normally use the slower drives anyway because they're quite and generally more reliable and energy efficient. I think it's more likley some partnership deal.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

It wasn't the drive itself that was too slow it was the enclosures. It's been a while but IIRC some of them used a weird bridge chip that converted from SATA to USB and then back to SATA for their eSATA port. This caused a performance issue that resulted in the TiVo not functioning correctly.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2016)

LoREvanescence said:


> I actually don't think so. Unless you are grandfathered in on a cheaper rate.
> 
> When I had my premiere hooked up I was paying like $12.95 or $12.99 a month, some thing in that ball park and that was a grandfathered in price as monthly service is more expensive than that now.
> 
> ...


As others have mentioned, cord cutters want cheap machines with no recurring cost.


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## Elgato54 (Sep 21, 2010)

I really did not understand why they considered the Bolt a step up. It seems more like an experiment or interim product. I love my Roamio but have absolutely no interest in the Bolt. Better Luck Next time!
3.5" drive, easily accessible and upgradeable.
4K
Faster Processor
Dump the idiotic curved case
Additional HDMI and/or Toslink ports
Better subscription pricing

There. Free ideas their engineers could not seem to handle.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

For people who record a show, then delete it, there is no need to rip open your Bolt. I save some shows but eventually those are deleted as well. I use a Premiere to send stuff to my DVD Recorder if I have something I wanna keep. I will admit the Roamios do have a lot more connection options. There is no way to get composite video from the Bolt; just like 99% of BluRay players now. Of course there are HDMI to RCA converters . ?I am talking directly from the box


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