# FIOS vs. TiVo



## cpittman (Aug 10, 2006)

This is my first time on TiVo community. I am glad I found you through Google. 

Despite claims by Verizon help desk to the contrary, I am certain that other TiVo owners have encountered my recent and ongoing problem. Yesterday, Verizon installed a FIOS "triple play" (voice, data, video) at my residence. We love it...with one exception: 

Our TiVos apparently will not control channel changing on the new Motorola set-top boxes. The ComCast box we had until 24 hours ago (also Motorola) was controlled by TiVo through the serial port with no problem. When I attempted to rebuild the connection between TiVo and the new FIOS standard definition set-top box provided by Verizon, the TiVo setup procedure informed me that it could not change channels. 

In going through the Verizon FIOS TV User Guide, I noticed on page 51 that the set-top box tells us not to plug anything into the serial port--and that the IR port (the 2nd method TiVo can control channel changing)--is not enabled. 

I am NOT a techie. I only know my kids want their TiVo, as do their parents.

I suppose it goes without saying that we chose NOT to go with the Verizon DVR in favor of remaining with TiVo. Is this a conspiracy?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thx,

CP


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

I understand the serial port not being enabled but how can the IR port not be enabled? Do they use and RF remote control?

Most discussions here have assumed that you could simply use the IR blaster.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Which Motorola box is it? And did you try IR anyway?


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

They may be referring to the IR *out* port that many cable boxes have to control VCRs, etc.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Good call, mz - that's probably it.


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## cpittman (Aug 10, 2006)

I will have to try to find an IR blaster cable. My TiVos do not have such cables. I simply assumed that the Users Manual was factual in stating that the IR port is not enabled. Has anyone been able to get automatic channel changing through the use of IR? The Motorola box is the QIP 2500-2.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Did your QIP 2500-2 come with a remote control? An IR remote control?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

> Did your QIP 2500-2 come with a remote control? An IR remote control?


Yes, it does.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

cpittman,

You'll have to control the Motorola box using the Tivo's IR interface.

Be sure to start saving for a Series3 HDTV Tivo as well.


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## cpittman (Aug 10, 2006)

Will do re TiVo Series 3 savings. I hope it will have more HD capacity than the VZ box appears to have (per specs). 

I appreciate the help from everyone. I have ordered two IR blaster cables from the Internet. If anyone needs the URL I will send it as a reply to a request at my email address.


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## TexasAg (Apr 2, 2006)

cpittman said:


> Will do re TiVo Series 3 savings. I hope it will have more HD capacity than the VZ box appears to have (per specs).
> 
> I appreciate the help from everyone. I have ordered two IR blaster cables from the Internet. If anyone needs the URL I will send it as a reply to a request at my email address.


The S3 has a 250GB drive and a SATA port to enable expansion via an external drive. You'll get TONS more space with the S3 than you would with the 160GB QIP6416 model Verizon Fios offers.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Since the box has an IR remote the IR blasters will do the trick for you (assuming the TiVo has the codes - but it would be unusual for it not to).

Just curious (it'll be years before it's here, I'm sure) - what is Verizon charging for the FIOS "triple play"?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

> Just curious (it'll be years before it's here, I'm sure) - what is Verizon charging for the FIOS "triple play"?


Verizon FiOS is $79.90 for 200 digital channels and 5Mbps Internet (with 2Mbps upstream). That includes the cost of a SD box if you subscribe for a year, but does not include the cost of the HDTV DVR, which is $12.99/mo. In some markets, the 5Mbps Internet plan has been upgraded to 10Mbps and the 15Mbps plan has been upgraded to 20Mbps, at no extra charge.

Verizon Voicewing phone service is $19.95/mo for 500 minutes or $24.95 for unlimited minutes, but you get $5.00 off for Triple Play. Hence, the "triple play" price for 200 digital channels, 5Mbps Internet (with 2Mbps upstream), and 500 minute phone service is $94.85/mo. With unlimited phone service, its $99.95/mo.

Verizon just introduced a multiroom software upgrade to the HDTV DVR which allows you to access its recordings on the non-DVR boxes, but they want $19.99/mo for that functionality. The DVR is still limited to 160Gb capacity; the box has a SATA port but it is non-functional.

You can see pics of the FiOS DVR software right here (broadband required).


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

bkdtv said:


> Verizon just introduced a multiroom software upgrade to the HDTV DVR which allows you to access its recordings on the non-DVR boxes, but they want $19.99/mo for that functionality.


The $19.99 includes the HD-DVR which costs $12.95 so the incremental cost of multi-room is around $7.


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## BriGuy20 (Aug 4, 2005)

Just wanted to be sure:

FiOS DOES indeed offer cable cards, right?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

> FiOS DOES indeed offer cable cards, right?


Yes, at $2.95 each. It's an outlet fee so you should be able to get two for the Series3 Tivo for $2.95 total. Multistream cards should be available from Verizon early next year.


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## daneyul (Jun 25, 2006)

The IR cables will work (I use them) but they are slow and unreliable. Changing channels now takes a few seconds, and holding the up/down channel is painful--the FIOS box can't keep up, and tends to get lost.

The best option by far is for FIOS to enable the Serial port on the Set top boxes. The port is there, and other providers who use the same model STB's have them enabled and work fine with TIVO. Fios has just not chosen to enable them. 

Anyone who is using or thinking about using FIOS with TIVO, please let Verizon know this is an important feature. The Verizon FIOS TV number is: (888) 553-1555

I've talked to them, and they indicated it probably will be updated eventually via firmware, but if they get a lot of calls, this will of course probably happen much faster...


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## passatdream (Nov 15, 2005)

I have FiOS here in Texas and I LOVE IT. I have my Tivo working just fine with the Motorola set top box. If you need help getting it setup, send me a PM and I'd be happy to help.

Chris.
Denton, TX


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## daneyul (Jun 25, 2006)

When you say its working just fine, does just fine include waiting 3 to 6 extra seconds for the channels to change via the IR cables? And how does it work with the up/down channel buttons? Can you surf the channels as quickly as you could with TIVO alone, or with a serial port interface? Or does the STB lag waaay behind, and get lost sometimes?

The slow channel changing of IR cables with the FIOS set top box is not just fine to me. It's a huge annoyance....


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

I've ALWAYS used IR and I've NEVER been unhappy. Note, I don't have FIOS, but hope to have it soon.

I've had Dish regular, HD receivers, and Cable boxes galore (DCT 2000 series Motorlas, Sci Atl boxes, DVRs and now a Moto 6412 HD DVR, likely will be the device I get from VZW while I wait out the S3)

I realize that those used to Serial Port channel changes have it better/smoother, but really, pulling your hair out is an overreaction to being 'limited' to IR. It works just great, with nary a channel miss on mutliple TiVos, over the many years and boxes!

The MORE important thing is ... with a TiVo in your possession, why are you even channel surfing any more? Is your NPL empty?


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## JohnBrowning (Jul 15, 2004)

I've had Fios TV for a week and this is the first time I've allowed a cable box into my home. Yes, I'd prefer the serial solution to my TiVo and have requested that support from VZ. That said, the IR seems to work ok - except when the maid cleans and knocks them out of alignment.

I've also got a Moto cablecard for my Mitsu DLP set. Neither VZ nor their installation contractors have much experience with the cc - and it shows. It took a couple days to get it init'd properly, but, seems to work great now!

The most time consuming part of this whole deal is to go through the TiVo, Moto boxes, and CC config to delete all the useless shopping, religious, Spanish, and Muzak channels from the lineups.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

> The most time consuming part of this whole deal is to go through the TiVo, Moto boxes, and CC config to delete all the useless shopping, religious, Spanish, and Muzak channels from the lineups.


At least the FiOS boxes actually let you remove the channels you don't want from the box. Cable boxes from Comcast, Time Warner, and Cox won't let you do that.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

JohnBrowning said:


> That said, the IR seems to work ok - except when the maid cleans and knocks them out of alignment.


Don't be looking for any sympathy on that one


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## Sidnicious (Feb 25, 2007)

daneyul said:


> Anyone who is using or thinking about using FIOS with TIVO, please let Verizon know this is an important feature. The Verizon FIOS TV number is: (888) 553-1555


I'm getting FiOS TV installed on Thursday, and recently came across this issue. I found the above number on Verizon's support site, and called. I explained the concern, and the tech said that he could only help with troubleshooting (issues like no picture). He gave me the model numbers of the FiOS boxes (I'll be getting a QIP2500), and left it at that. I'm going to email support and may call again in hope of getting someone more willing to help.

Since this topic, has anyone made progress or seen new developments?
[hr]
I know I may be bringing this topic back from the dead, but the issue is still relevant


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

bkdtv said:


> At least the FiOS boxes actually let you remove the channels you don't want from the box. Cable boxes from Comcast, Time Warner, and Cox won't let you do that.


I've actually wondered if the Tivo/Comcast software will still let you do that.. or if this will be a degradation in the UI when moved to the cable DVRs.


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## bilbo (Dec 7, 2004)

HD-DVR rate to go up $3 for new service added (if you add after mid-July) according to a recent mailing (received earlier this month). $12.95 monthly rate will stay the same for existing customers. that makes the hd-dvr $15.95 per month (and would probably mean a downgrade from the multi-room dvr after mid-July will only save you $4.



ah30k said:


> The $19.99 includes the HD-DVR which costs $12.95 so the incremental cost of multi-room is around $7.


i had serial ports enabled initially (service installed november 2006 long after this thread went dormant), but they just suddenly stopped working one day (about 1-2 months ago) and i had to switch to ir (for the first time ever). not really much to it, imho. of course i have cable cards downstairs in an s3, so i am not really concerned about the bedroom tivo.


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## mick66 (Oct 15, 2004)

JohnBrowning said:


> That said, the IR seems to work ok - except when the maid cleans and knocks them out of alignment.


 "The maid"? So soon after mother's day and you're referring to her as the maid already. tsk tsk.


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## Sidnicious (Feb 25, 2007)

Quick update for anyone coming across this thread: the IMG update rolled out recently enables the serial port! Feel free to switch over.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Yep - serial port works great here in MD!


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## robomeister (Feb 4, 2005)

There are a few other threads about enabling the serial ports on the QIP2500, so that Series 2 TiVos (and maybe Series 1 TiVos) can control the QIP2500 serially. I think it involves a phone call to the Verizon help center. Search for QIP2500 and you'll get a number of good info.

Hope that helps,
robomeister


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## mn2 (Apr 11, 2007)

We have a Tivo Series 2 and are considering getting FIOS. I called Verizon today and they said to have Tivo work, I'd need a cable card for the Tivo and for the FIOS. None of our TVs are HD. Would someone please tell me what a cable card does? I thought they rendered the HD signal.

I can't see putting a card in Tivo. All help appreciated.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

FIOS was wrong, no cable cards for Series 2.

They allow access to encrypted digital channels, but the series 2 isn't designed to use them.


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## wkearney (Jan 30, 2008)

You have two choices. Keep using your S2 and add a FIOS box. We have one TV set up this way. Your other choice would be to get a TivoHD and two cablecards for it (no FIOS box). You can use a TivoHD without an HD television, just use the component or s-video outputs on it. It will work, although I don't know that it would 'down convert' from a HD station. You'd probably have to stick to just using the SD channels, those certainly WILL work on a regular TV with s-video or component inputs. The upside to using a TivoHD is being able to record two things at once since it has two tuners.


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## StewartWong (Mar 13, 2006)

Can the TivoHD control a cable box via an IR blaster? Or does it absolutely need CableCards to work?


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## mvltmn1 (Jan 18, 2008)

I heard that the FIOS DVR wasn't high def - it is?


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## fpp777 (Jan 17, 2008)

StewartWong said:


> Can the TivoHD control a cable box via an IR blaster? Or does it absolutely need CableCards to work?


A TivoHD is the set top box. You will not need a "cable box". Just a cable directly into the TivoHD. It absolutely needs CableCards.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

mvltmn1 said:


> I heard that the FIOS DVR wasn't high def - it is?


That is _not_ what you heard. What you heard was that the multi-room DVR doesn't work with HD receivers, only SD.


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

You may have heard that Fios is having supply problems with HD set top boxes, both the DVR and non-DVR. They are currently giving people SD devices until the next shipment arrives. Several operators are reporting the same shortage. I speculate that there was a run on HD TVs over the holidays.

Al


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

acvthree said:


> You may have heard that Fios is having supply problems with HD set top boxes, both the DVR and non-DVR. They are currently giving people SD devices until the next shipment arrives. Several operators are reporting the same shortage. I speculate that there was a run on HD TVs over the holidays.
> 
> Al


FiOS was running a promotion where new triple pay subscribers got a free 19" HD TV. The same promotion offered a HDDVR and a movie package for approximately $7 more then the movie package would cost by itself.


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## mn2 (Apr 11, 2007)

wkearney said:


> You have two choices. Keep using your S2 and add a FIOS box. We have one TV set up this way. Your other choice would be to get a TivoHD and two cablecards for it (no FIOS box). You can use a TivoHD without an HD television, just use the component or s-video outputs on it. It will work, although I don't know that it would 'down convert' from a HD station. You'd probably have to stick to just using the SD channels, those certainly WILL work on a regular TV with s-video or component inputs. The upside to using a TivoHD is being able to record two things at once since it has two tuners.


I had thought that each TV used with FIOS needed a box. So, the S2 will work with a FIOS box I guess. The serial connection is another issue still.

Thanks!


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## webin (Feb 13, 2008)

I just had Verizon FiOS installed yesterday, and hooked up my S2 (single tuner) last night. I received a QP2500-3 standard definition set-top box, and can report that the TiVo can control it using either IR Blasters or the Serial connection (plugged into "Data" on the STB). I found the serial connection assumes default channel changing methods (for channel 5, it uses 005 and no Enter)... which actually isn't the fastest way to change the channel. For this reason, I opted for IR Blasters. In the Guided Setup, I specified that to change to channel 5, it should use "5", and it SHOULD hit Enter afterwards. This gets the set-top box to change channels right away... a good 1-2 seconds faster than the serial connection, or the default IR settings.

The biggest drawback I've found so far with FiOS is that I can no longer split the cable coming out of the wall and bypass the TiVo/STB to watch a show live on analog TV like I could with Comcast. The TV only shows static, despite my FiOS account indicating both analog and digital video service. I may look into getting an old-school pair of rabbit ears to fill that gap (and hold me over until I have enough money to get an HDTV, TiVoHD, and cable cards).

What's the current status of Verizon FiOS's use of cable cards? Any headaches?


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Welcome!

No issues here - there is a monster thread in the S3 forum that has lots of folks FIOS/Cablecard experience.


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## urkel-Os (Oct 23, 2005)

mn2 said:


> I had thought that each TV used with FIOS needed a box. So, the S2 will work with a FIOS box I guess. The serial connection is another issue still.
> 
> Thanks!


My S2 TiVo controls a QIP2500-3 standard def STB over serial. When I got FiOS TV installed at the beginning of February, I asked the tech if the serial port was active. He didn't seem to know, so I just hooked it up to test for myself. It worked right out of the box. Channel changing is too slow for surfing, but the TiVo has never failed to tune the STB to the right channel for a recording.


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## ilh (Dec 21, 2007)

webin said:


> The biggest drawback I've found so far with FiOS is that I can no longer split the cable coming out of the wall and bypass the TiVo/STB to watch a show live on analog TV like I could with Comcast. The TV only shows static, despite my FiOS account indicating both analog and digital video service. I may look into getting an old-school pair of rabbit ears to fill that gap (and hold me over until I have enough money to get an HDTV, TiVoHD, and cable cards).


I have an old TV hooked up directly to the FiOS cable and get 2-49 analog just fine. I also have the free 19" HD TV directly hooked up to the cable getting the locals in HD. Neither TV has a set top box. Perhaps you don't have your TV in "cable" mode?

My TiVo HD is working fine with CableCARDs, getting all the digital channels.


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## Cgrisamore (Dec 25, 2003)

webin said:


> I just had Verizon FiOS installed yesterday, and hooked up my S2 (single
> The biggest drawback I've found so far with FiOS is that I can no longer split the cable coming out of the wall and bypass the TiVo/STB to watch a show live on analog TV like I could with Comcast. The TV only shows static, despite my FiOS account indicating both analog and digital video service. I may look into getting an old-school pair of rabbit ears to fill that gap (and hold me over until I have enough money to get an HDTV, TiVoHD, and cable cards).
> 
> What's the current status of Verizon FiOS's use of cable cards? Any headaches?


I've been using FIOS with a Series 2 for the last year (up until this week where I moved up to a Tivo HD). I've used a splitter with one feed going to the Tivo and one to the TV since the beginning and I'm still using that setup with the Tivo HD. You might try a different cable.

Verizon techs came out on Tuesday to do the cable card install on my new Tivo and I lucked out that I got a technician who was not only familiar with Tivo but he actually told me that he wished that Verizon used the new Tivos as their DVR. Cablecard install took about 2 hours but most of that was waiting time for the activation process.


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## webin (Feb 13, 2008)

ilh said:


> I have an old TV hooked up directly to the FiOS cable and get 2-49 analog just fine.


Ok... maybe I need to call Verizon and see why analog isn't working.. maybe they tried to be sly and disabled it or something. I'll need to do some more testing first though (checking other outlets in the house, other cables, tv config, etc).

One thing that may be influencing this is something about the FiOS set-top box being hooked in somehow to my Internet router (for Program Guide info they said)... but I need to look at how it's all wired (outside splitter, then to STB?) and try to figure out what's going on.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

Some of the Verizon areas are all digital I believe so the ability to receive 1-49 without a set top box could be related to where you are.


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## webin (Feb 13, 2008)

ah30k said:


> Some of the Verizon areas are all digital I believe so the ability to receive 1-49 without a set top box could be related to where you are.


If that were the case, I'd get the rabbit ears (actually thinking about ones that can grab OTA HD for when I get a HDTV) and be done... but the fact that my account details specifically mention both analog and digital service makes me wonder. Only time and testing will make it clear.


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## webin (Feb 13, 2008)

I've confirmed that there's no analog TV coming into my house over FiOS. Our area just had TV roll out in the last few months, so I'm willing to bet they are doing all digital (and I can't blame them one bit). I'm not even going to bother calling Verizon to verify the point... too much time on hold to learn something I already know.

Now that I know what my tax refund will look like this year, I'm planning on getting the TivoHD (and an HDTV) in the next few weeks, so will cross my fingers on the cable card stuff. I plan on getting an antenna for OTA on the replaced TV going into the bedroom (it won't be used often enough to justify renting the $4/mo digital adapter.


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

I am in the process of ordering FiOS with 2 CableCards for my Series 3. I am a bit confused in what to order for my S2. I can order a STB at $5.99 per month or a Digital Converter box at $3.99 per month. The STB allows pay per view, which I do not need, but I understand per this thread it can be controlled by the S2 TiVo via the IR blaster.

Can the S2 TiVO control the FiOS digital converter box using the IR blaster?


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

JacksTiVo said:


> I am in the process of ordering FiOS with 2 CableCards for my Series 3. I am a bit confused in what to order for my S2. I can order a STB at $5.99 per month or a Digital Converter box at $3.99 per month. The STB allows pay per view, which I do not need, but I understand per this thread it can be controlled by the S2 TiVo via the IR blaster.
> 
> Can the S2 TiVO control the FiOS digital converter box using the IR blaster?


The full STB can be controlled via the serial cable as well.

I actually got a mailing about the pending transition of FiOS to all digital and they offered a free adapter. If that free adapter can receive all the channels and be controlled by the S2 (either serial or IR) then I'd be tempted to trade in my two SD-STBs and go with the free adapters.


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

ah30k said:


> The full STB can be controlled via the serial cable as well.
> 
> I actually got a mailing about the pending transition of FiOS to all digital and they offered a free adapter. If that free adapter can receive all the channels and be controlled by the S2 (either serial or IR) then I'd be tempted to trade in my two SD-STBs and go with the free adapters.


I just completed my FiOS order. One correction, the digital converter box is $4.99 per month. Per the Verizon representative the only difference between the STB and digital converter box is that the STB can access pay per view. So I would expect it to work with a TiVo S2 unit.

Their digital converter box sounds similar to the SDV tuner adapter that we have been discussing on the S3 forum but is intended for use with analog devices such as the S2, whereas the issue with the S3 and HD units is that they need CableCards which can not handle SDV.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

JacksTiVo said:


> I just completed my FiOS order. One correction, the digital converter box is $4.99 per month.


I'm looking at the mailer in front of me that says they are removing my analog channels but I can get a free digital adapter.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

ah30k said:


> I'm looking at the mailer in front of me that says they are removing my analog channels but I can get a free digital adapter.


http://www.cable360.net/competition/telcos/29065.html


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

JacksTiVo said:


> I just completed my FiOS order. One correction, the digital converter box is $4.99 per month. Per the Verizon representative the only difference between the STB and digital converter box is that the STB can access pay per view. So I would expect it to work with a TiVo S2 unit.
> 
> Their digital converter box sounds similar to the SDV tuner adapter that we have been discussing on the S3 forum but is intended for use with analog devices such as the S2, *whereas the issue with the S3 and HD units is that they need CableCards which can not handle SDV.*


Just so nobody misunderstand what you've written, while correct that the S3 and THD units cannot handle SDV, this isn't an issue with FIOS, as they do not (currently or any plans) do SDV on their network.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

The "digital adapter" is just a DCT700 cable box. It cannot do PPV because it doesn't do IPTV, which PPV uses (the QIP boxes do IPTV, so work with PPV).

While FIOS does not do SDV, they do IPTV, and could in theory, add channels using that technology, which will probably leave S3/THDs TiVos hosed.


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

Theoretically many things could leave many electronic devices hoses.

No Verizon set top devices do unbox. I guess they are hosed.


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

GoHokies! said:


> Just so nobody misunderstand what you've written, while correct that the S3 and THD units cannot handle SDV, this isn't an issue with FIOS, as they do not (currently or any plans) do SDV on their network.


You are correct and that is one of the reasons I am leaving Cablevision to go to FiOS.


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