# The clock is wrong because it's right!



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

In another post* notting came up with the reason TiVo to PC transfers are failing, no matter which software you're using, Desktop or otherwise.

The TiVos are handing out expired session id cookies.

I reset a PC to think it's only the 13th, and now I've got a transfer going successfully and about as quickly as I've ever seen one happen.

*http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9526322#post9526322


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## LKMcMillen (Nov 18, 2004)

Setting my computer's calendar date back to February 13, 2013 worked for me too. 

Thank you!

A sharing of information.

TiVo Premiere
TiVo Premiere Software Version: 20.2.2.1-01-2-746
TiVo Desktop Plus Software Version 2.8.3

This morning I discovered a problem with the transfer of recordings from my TiVo Premeire DVR to my personal computer over my home's wired network using my licensed copy of the TiVo Desktop Plus software.

After I'd picked recordings to transfer from the list of recordings displayed in the TiVo Desktop Plus, and selected the "Start Transfer" button, it appeared at first that all was working as normal. But after a few seconds the TiVo Desktop Plus software displayed the message "Some transfers have been interrupted". When I then selected the "Transfer Status" tab I saw that each recording title is preceded with a red "X", and that there is a notation of "X The system cannot find the file specified" for each of the selected files.

All of the recordings were made within the last 72 hours. I restarted my TiVo box using the it's settings menu system, and then by disconnecting/reconnecting the power cord several times. I've shut down and restarted my computer several times. I've disconnected/reconnected the power from my network's router, as well as reset it to factory settings and set it up again to fit my network. And I've uninstalled/reinstalled the TiVo Desktop software. None of those actions have resolved the issue.

TiVo (Online chat) support just informed me a few minutes ago that it appears that recent updates from Microsoft installed to my personal computer (Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit) yesterday are apparently the source of the same, or similar problem which I'm experiencing, and asked that I wait 24-48 hours to see if additional updates are released to fix the problem.

At TiVo Support's request I reviewed the list of updates to my Windows Operating System and found that "security" updates identified as KB2792100, KB2310138, KB2790655, KB2790113, KB2797052, KB2789642, KB2778344, and KB2799494 had been installed during the last 24 hours.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

LKMcMillen said:


> TiVo (Online chat) support just informed me a few minutes ago that it appears that recent updates from Microsoft installed to my personal computer (Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit) yesterday are apparently the source of the same, or similar problem which I'm experiencing, and asked that I wait 24-48 hours to see if additional updates are released to fix the problem.
> 
> At TiVo Support's request I reviewed the list of updates to my Windows Operating System and found that "security" updates identified as KB2792100, KB2310138, KB2790655, KB2790113, KB2797052, KB2789642, KB2778344, and KB2799494 had been installed during the last 24 hours.


As with the the last two problems that affected everyone, TiVo support is full of it.


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## sw10025 (May 16, 2000)

LKMcMillen said:


> Setting my computer's calendar date back to February 13, 2013 worked for me too.
> 
> TiVo (Online chat) support just informed me a few minutes ago that it appears that recent updates from Microsoft installed to my personal computer (Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit) yesterday are apparently the source of the same, or similar problem which I'm experiencing, and asked that I wait 24-48 hours to see if additional updates are released to fix the problem.
> 
> At TiVo Support's request I reviewed the list of updates to my Windows Operating System and found that "security" updates identified as KB2792100, KB2310138, KB2790655, KB2790113, KB2797052, KB2789642, KB2778344, and KB2799494 had been installed during the last 24 hours.


I suspect lpwcomp is right, and Tivo may be confused - or not telling the truth - about the source of the problem. I experienced the exact same problem, and the exact same fix worked, HOWEVER, I hadn't turned my computer off for a number of days before the downloads started failing (therefore no operating system changes could have been made, even if they were automatically downloaded) and Tivo Desktop Plus had been working fine hours before it started failing, and the computer definitely hadn't been off, or had an interruption of power since the time the downloading was working and the time it stopped working. And the computer also never flashed the usual message about their being updates waiting to be implemented.

Just "chatted" with Tivo support to see what they would say re the issue, and was given the same line about it being a Microsoft update. Told them what I just said above, which he didn't comment on. Also told him about changing the clock solving the problem, which he didn't seem to know about. Asked him if he knew of any other workarounds (since changing the clock could conceivably mess up other things on my computer, and it confuses me when I look at the date until I remember) and he said he'd heard that doing a system restore from a few days before would also resolve the problem. Neither is a great resolution, but I'd rather change the clock than do a system restore and lose the last couple of days worth of work.

He said they're working on a software update that will resolve the problem, and just to be sure I made him clarify we should expect one from Tivo, not from Microsoft, that will resolve the problem, but he didn't have an estimate for how long it would be before it was available.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

sw10025 said:


> I suspect lpwcomp is right, and Tivo may be confused - or not telling the truth - about the source of the problem. I experienced the exact same problem, and the exact same fix worked, HOWEVER, I hadn't turned my computer off for a number of days before the downloads started failing (therefore no operating system changes could have been made, even if they were automatically downloaded) and Tivo Desktop Plus had been working fine hours before it started failing, and the computer definitely hadn't been off, or had an interruption of power since the time the downloading was working and the time it stopped working. And the computer also never flashed the usual message about their being updates waiting to be implemented.
> 
> Just "chatted" with Tivo support to see what they would say re the issue, and was given the same line about it being a Microsoft update. Told them what I just said above, which he didn't comment on. Also told him about changing the clock solving the problem, which he didn't seem to know about. Asked him if he knew of any other workarounds (since changing the clock could conceivably mess up other things on my computer, and it confuses me when I look at the date until I remember) and he said he'd heard that doing a system restore from a few days before would also resolve the problem. Neither is a great resolution, but I'd rather change the clock than do a system restore and lose the last couple of days worth of work.
> 
> He said they're working on a software update that will resolve the problem, and just to be sure I made him clarify we should expect one from Tivo, not from Microsoft, that will resolve the problem, but he didn't have an estimate for how long it would be before it was available.


Since I experienced the problem and am still running Win2K, which hasn't been updated in years....


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## tluxon (Feb 28, 2002)

It's nearly impossible for this to be a Windows issue, as I've had the same symptoms of an expiry date issue on 3 different PCs with separate OS's (Win7 x32, Win7 x64, and WinXP). The WinXP PC hasn't had updates applied for at least 4 months.

I can't set my clock back because I'm recording multiple shows at any one time with WMC on this PC, so my only band-aid so far has been to download with kmttg with it set to "use Java to download instead of curl". This is a step back for me because kmttg downloads are about 50% slower than pyTivo downloads on my setup.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> As with the the last two problems that affected everyone, TiVo support is full of it.


I just turned on my Windows 8 TiVo Desktop machine. It has not been turned on recently. There were no updates and I have the issue.

I have kmttg but have not used it in a while. I'll need to try and remember how to use it.


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## LKMcMillen (Nov 18, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> As with the the last two problems that affected everyone, TiVo support is full of it.


After restoring my computer's system partition from an image backup made January 28, 2013, without installing any updates issued since that date, or the installation of the TiVo Desktop Plus software, and attempting to transfer recordings directly from my TiVo Premiere over my wired network using Microsoft's Internet Explorer with the URL of https://192.168.1.102 (The IP address assigned by my network) without success, I fully believe that the problem is certainly with the TiVo DVR software.

Thanks to all!


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## pbiersac (Sep 13, 2008)

Just chiming in to agree about changing the time on my PC to correct the file transfer problems I've been having. I successfully transferred files off my TiVoHD yesterday (2/15/2013) but today (2/16/2013)? Nothing but TiVo Desktop showing "the system cannot find the file specified" after failed transfer. This has been irritating me all day long! I've had a similar problem before and cleaning up some old temp files and rebooting usually worked. Not this time though. Among other things, I:
* Checked network settings on my routers and both TiVos (a series 2 and a TiVo HD). 
* Unplugged both TiVos and left them unplugged for nearly an hour each before restarting. 
* Completed guided setup again (without clearing thumbs, recommendations, schedules, etc)
* Performed fresh installs of TiVo Desktop on my PC
* Cleaned out various cache and temp file directories on my PC
* Poked through (but ultimately did not change) anything in PCs registry
* Rolled back to previous good system restore point (2/13/2013) on my PC to get away from Microsoft security updates that *did* install during the last few days. I don't normally accept automatic Windows updates but they snuck in (somehow) while I was sleeping. Really thought this could be a legit cause of my problems since it turned my Windows Firewall back on (I disabled it previously). No dice.

Been scouring forums all afternoon and no fixes seemed to work. Noticed that the hard drive in my TiVoHD was slightly louder than normal and expected that maybe it was finally dying. Nearly jumped the gun to purchase a new TiVo (Premiere 4XL) but couldn't get over the fact that my series 2 was also suffering the same problem and *only* since today. Fortunately, found this thread and gave it a shot. NO JOKE...immediately after killing all TiVo processes, setting my PCs clock back to 2/13/2013 and restarting TiVo Desktop...and I mean immediately...no more problems. I am currently mid-transfer but will put the clock back to todays date to see if the problem returns. Assuming it does, the questions are now: 1) what doesn't TiVo like about today's date, 2) what is TiVo going to do about fixing the problem, and 3) how quickly is TiVo going to fix it?

I don't want to keep setting my PC back to pre-2/16/2013 just to transfer shows...


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

Thanks for the info. Same problem on a Mac here. I don't want to reset my clock because it will affect my other apps, but I noticed the web downloads are still working.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

LKMcMillen said:


> After restoring my computer's system partition from an image backup made January 28, 2013, without installing any updates issued since that date, or the installation of the TiVo Desktop Plus software, and attempting to transfer recordings directly from my TiVo Premiere over my wired network using Microsoft's Internet Explorer with the URL of https://192.168.1.102 (The IP address assigned by my network) without success, I fully believe that the problem is certainly with the TiVo DVR software.
> 
> Thanks to all!


It has nothing to do with any of that. Apparently TiVos can't hand out session id cookies dated any more recently than Feb. 15, 2013, so the PC has to be lied to about the current date.

Go to the bottom right hand corner of your screen, right-click the time display, click adjust date/time, click the calender to make it think it's the 13th or 14th of February instead of the 16th, and watch Desktop start working like normal.

Or, if TiVo is as slow to fix this as they've been on getting the Premiere's OS out of beta, maybe leave it on February 16th and set to last year or the year before.

Of course if making your computer misinformed about what the date really is screws up something else, well, that's the way the out of date cookie crumbles you.


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## msmart (Jan 3, 2007)

Same problem here. WinXP SP3, TD 2.8.2 and a TiVo S2.

I hope TiVo gets it sorted out soon as I'm not changing my system time back.

Here's a thread on the TiVo Help Forums:

http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=11070121

(why they need screen shots is beyond me)


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

You can experience the problem under Mac OS X or Linux, too.

The problem has been well characterized over in the kmttg thread. It's entirely due to the TiVo.


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## dakk (Nov 8, 2005)

I have been turning my clock back to transfer recordings all was working fine til just now.
I went back even further to Feb.9 no joy. Now it just will not transfer, period


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

dakk said:


> I have been turning my clock back to transfer recordings all was working fine til just now.
> I went back even further to Feb.9 no joy. Now it just will not transfer, period


I don't like the sound of that.

You really shouldn't need to set it any farther back than necessary to keep from rolling over to February 16th, 2013 before the transfers finish.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

tluxon said:


> This is a step back for me because kmttg downloads are about 50% slower than pyTivo downloads on my setup.


I have a workaround for pyTivo in my repos now.


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## rpetruzz (Oct 15, 2005)

Hi,

Just to add confirmations to this. I run Windows 8 Pro and did just recently download and install updates.

But no matter how many times I rebooted the PC, rebooted the Tivos nothing worked. I still got the "The system cannot find the file specified" for all my Tivo downloads. And I have 5 different Tivos. Four of them Premier units. Even the Tivo that is not Premier was failing.

I changed my clock back to Feb 13, 2013 and everything is working just the way that it should.

Thank you for posting the workaround to the problem. I can't leave my date changed backwards, but this is at least a work around until Tivo gets their act together.

Bob


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I found a set and forget work around for TiVo Desktop that doesn't involve changing the clock. See this post for details.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

morac said:


> I found a set and forget work around for TiVo Desktop that doesn't involve changing the clock. See this post for details.


Brilliant!


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## mdjwintergreen (Feb 17, 2013)

Was having the same problem with the "tivo system cannot find the file specified" and I did just what you all said by turning my PC clock back to Feb 1st and it worked! I'm totally shocked! I have three different tivos and all was working just fine last weekend transferring shows from my tivos to my pc (I travel a lot for work) and NOTHING had changed on all fronts from last weekend (except time apparently). I really didn't think that would be the solution but it was! I sure hope they come up with an update to fix that cuz I'm pretty sure that luck is going to run out soon and I won't know what to do then as you all are saying going back again (or further) doesn't work. Come on TIVO!
MJ
P.S. Whoever figured that out...You're a god! Thank you!!!!!


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## smithduke (Jan 9, 2004)

I'm having the same problem on my Mac OSX 10.7.5 Lion. Everything was working fine until last week. I changed the date to Feb 15 on my Mac and now I'm able to download. It must be due to iTivo itself and not the operating system. Thanks for the suggestion. What a relief!


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

smithduke said:


> It must be due to iTivo itself and not the operating system.


Neither -- it's the TiVo. iTivo is behaving correctly.

Don't change the system date; try this:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9527390#post9527390


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Since it's affecting my S3 OLED apparently this issue has been present for a while (and someone reported it with an S2)?

Scott


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## notting (Dec 15, 2005)

HerronScott said:


> Since it's affecting my S3 OLED apparently this issue has been present for a while (and someone reported it with an S2)?


As far as I can tell by googling for HTTP logs from Tivos, that cookie expiry date has been hardcoded to this for TTG transfers ever since they introduced the feature in 2005, from S2 all the way up to recent Premieres.

As to why they decided to use a hardcoded date in February 2013... I couldn't tell you.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

notting said:


> As to why they decided to use a hardcoded date in February 2013... I couldn't tell you.


Maybe back then, TiVo didn't have faith that they would still be in business in 2013.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

steve614 said:


> Maybe back then, TiVo didn't have faith that they would still be in business in 2013.


Speaking of which, the next "doomsday" date is December 2016. That's when the SSL certificate on the Series 3 boxes expires. I don't have a S2 to test with, but I'm guessing that expires sooner.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

morac said:


> Speaking of which, the next "doomsday" date is December 2016. That's when the SSL certificate on the Series 3 boxes expires. I don't have a S2 to test with, but I'm guessing that expires sooner.


 There's also client side PKCS12 certificates for iOS/Android software set to expire 2/14/2014. Haven't checked recent versions to see if they have extended that expiration date. Maybe this time next year we'll have a new iOS/Android crisis on hand...


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## notting (Dec 15, 2005)

morac said:


> Speaking of which, the next "doomsday" date is December 2016. That's when the SSL certificate on the Series 3 boxes expires. I don't have a S2 to test with, but I'm guessing that expires sooner.


Series 2 cert expires January 9, 2015, at least on the one I have. Of course, 3rd-party client software (and even Tivo Desktop itself presumably, considering it's a curl commandline option) can easily be configured to ignore an expired cert in much the same way it works around the cookie problem.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

notting said:


> Series 2 cert expires January 9, 2015, at least on the one I have. Of course, 3rd-party client software (and even Tivo Desktop itself presumably, considering it's a curl commandline option) can easily be configured to ignore an expired cert in much the same way it works around the cookie problem.


SSL is only used to grab the show listings. The actual transfer is not encrypted. I don't think TD uses curl to grab the listing data as such it will probably fail without any way of fixing it. The SSL certificate isn't technically valid since it has no CA so 3rd-party software already likely ignores it.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

moyekj said:


> There's also client side PKCS12 certificates for iOS/Android software set to expire 2/14/2014. Haven't checked recent versions to see if they have extended that expiration date. Maybe this time next year we'll have a new iOS/Android crisis on hand...


That's easy enough to update assuming TiVo doesn't shut down their app development before next year.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've seen notting's proof that the date is hardcoded, and has been for many years (probably since the beginning). So just to nail the coffin on this thing, I thought I'd grep my copy of an old tivoapp (11.0b) for the string, in case it was there in plain text. They wouldn't do _that_, right? Yeah, they would:


```
Set-Cookie: sid=%s; path=/; expires="Saturday, 16-Feb-2013 00:00:00 GMT";
```
On the plus side, this means it should be easy to patch on a hacked TiVo.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

wmcbrine said:


> I've seen notting's proof that the date is hardcoded, and has been for many years (probably since the beginning). So just to nail the coffin on this thing, I thought I'd grep my copy of an old tivoapp (11.0b) for the string, in case it was there in plain text. They wouldn't do _that_, right? Yeah, they would:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


So they really did subcontract out to Mayan programmers.


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## JZ1276 (Aug 21, 2008)

I've been trying to fix this problem for almost 2 hrs now, lucky I came across this thread. So, basically, every time I want to transfer and file I have to set the date back to the 13th from now on??


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

JZ1276 said:


> I've been trying to fix this problem for almost 2 hrs now, lucky I came across this thread. So, basically, every time I want to transfer and file I have to set the date back to the 13th from now on??


Nope.

Thanks to morac all you have to do is add a line of text to your curl.conf file

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9527463#post9527463


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## degobahjunk (Jan 10, 2009)

Whar happens if you don't have a curl.conf file?

I think I deleted it yesterday when I was trying to fix this ridiculous problem....

Even after a reinstall I don't seem to have one. Can I create one or download one?

Thanks, JW


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## JZ1276 (Aug 21, 2008)

unitron said:


> Nope.
> 
> Thanks to morac all you have to do is add a line of text to your curl.conf file
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9527463#post9527463


Cool. Thanks.


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## JZ1276 (Aug 21, 2008)

degobahjunk said:


> Whar happens if you don't have a curl.conf file?
> 
> I think I deleted it yesterday when I was trying to fix this ridiculous problem....
> 
> ...


Why not just download the one Unitron was nice enough to post in the link he provided?


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

JZ1276 said:


> Why not just download the one Unitron was nice enough to post in the link he provided?


That was morac's work, not mine. I just linked to what he provided, which was pretty much the extent of my abilities where fixing this problem was concerned.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

degobahjunk said:


> Whar happens if you don't have a curl.conf file?
> 
> I think I deleted it yesterday when I was trying to fix this ridiculous problem....
> 
> ...


You may be looking for it in the wrong place.

Desktop install in Program Files, but also sticks some stuff, including curl.conf, in the user profile section.

That morac post I link to shows how to find it for XP and Vista and up.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

degobahjunk said:


> Whar happens if you don't have a curl.conf file?
> 
> I think I deleted it yesterday when I was trying to fix this ridiculous problem....
> 
> ...


If you are sure you are looking in the right place and can't find it, just create one. If it doesn't fix the problem, it means you didn't put it in the correct folder.


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## mrmega (Dec 3, 2007)

I applied morac's simple curl.conf fix yesterday (which needed reboot on XP) and it has worked flawlessly (with the correct date/time) on a S2, S3 HD and a S4 HD using Tivo Desktop on a Windows XP machine.

To borrow from unitron, "All hail notting and morac!" 

mrmega


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## twiddly (Oct 17, 2010)

Brilliant !!!!

I don't know why it works, but it works!


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## degobahjunk (Jan 10, 2009)

2.5.1 never had a curl.conf file. So just adding one to the TiVo Destop folder didn't solve the problem. (And yes, I did have the correct location & folder.) I don't even know what a conf file is, but 2.5.1 apparently didn't rely on one, so that particular fix didn't work.

I gave up & downloaded 2.8.3, added the *cookie = "sid=abc"* line & I'm back in business. No wonder it seemed like such an easy fix for so many others! My new TiVo Desktop is currently transferring!!

Thanks notting, unitron & especially morac for figuring this all out!


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

wmcbrine said:


> I've seen notting's proof that the date is hardcoded, and has been for many years (probably since the beginning). So just to nail the coffin on this thing, I thought I'd grep my copy of an old tivoapp (11.0b) for the string, in case it was there in plain text. They wouldn't do _that_, right? Yeah, they would:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


That same line of code is in tivoapp on a Premiere, and goes back at least as far as 7.2.5 on a Series 2.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

degobahjunk said:


> 2.5.1 never had a curl.conf file. So just adding one to the TiVo Destop folder didn't solve the problem. (And yes, I did have the correct location & folder.) I don't even know what a conf file is, but 2.5.1 apparently didn't rely on one, so that particular fix didn't work.
> 
> I gave up & downloaded 2.8.3, added the *cookie = "sid=abc"* line & I'm back in business. No wonder it seemed like such an easy fix for so many others! My new TiVo Desktop is currently transferring!!
> 
> Thanks notting, unitron & especially morac for figuring this all out!


notting and morac figured it out, I just noticed that they figured it out and happened to mention it here and there.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

degobahjunk said:


> 2.5.1 never had a curl.conf file. So just adding one to the TiVo Destop folder didn't solve the problem. (And yes, I did have the correct location & folder.) I don't even know what a conf file is, but 2.5.1 apparently didn't rely on one, so that particular fix didn't work.
> 
> I gave up & downloaded 2.8.3, added the *cookie = "sid=abc"* line & I'm back in business. No wonder it seemed like such an easy fix for so many others! My new TiVo Desktop is currently transferring!!
> 
> Thanks notting, unitron & especially morac for figuring this all out!


Did 2.5.1 have curl.exe somewhere in the TiVo Desktop folder in Program Files?

Maybe they wrapped it inside another executable that included hard coded config parameters, and decided on later versions to leave the config file out separate where it could be tweaked if necessary.


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## twhiting9275 (Nov 17, 2006)

Glad to know Tivo is so on the ball about this. Kind of reminds me of Amazon Prime. Oh wait, we're not allowed to talk about that any more.


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## kumaaz99 (Nov 16, 2008)

unitron said:


> In another post* notting came up with the reason TiVo to PC transfers are failing, no matter which software you're using, Desktop or otherwise.
> The TiVos are handing out expired session id cookies.
> I reset a PC to think it's only the 13th, and now I've got a transfer going successfully and about as quickly as I've ever seen one happen.
> *http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9526322#post9526322


=========================
notting is a genius..thanks. after days of researching & messing with this issue, resetting the clock solves the problem right away. I guess it would be too much to expect to have the geniuses at TIVO come up with this or solve the problem.


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## degobahjunk (Jan 10, 2009)

unitron said:


> Did 2.5.1 have curl.exe somewhere in the TiVo Desktop folder in Program Files?
> 
> Maybe they wrapped it inside another executable that included hard coded config parameters, and decided on later versions to leave the config file out separate where it could be tweaked if necessary.


Don't think so. I did a search for "curl" (even in "hidden" system files & folders) & didn't come up with one.


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## ShayL (Jul 18, 2007)

morac said:


> SSL is only used to grab the show listings. The actual transfer is not encrypted. I don't think TD uses curl to grab the listing data as such it will probably fail without any way of fixing it. The SSL certificate isn't technically valid since it has no CA so 3rd-party software already likely ignores it.


I wonder why TiVo bothered with using SSL connection for the show listings then if TiVo transfer the contents in the clear.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

ShayL said:


> I wonder why TiVo bothered with using SSL connection for the show listings then if TiVo transfer the contents in the clear.


Another good question. Of course I can only speculate. I think in this case the right question might be "why _aren't_ the contents SSL'd?", and I think the answer might be "too much overhead". The metadata is very small by comparison.

To attempt to compensate for the lack of SSL, I guess, the TiVo demands a session key in order to transfer the content, thus proving that you successfully made an SSL'd connection earlier to get that key. But this is broken in at least two ways: the fixed (now past) expiration date, and a failure to even check the value of the session key.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Too bad TiVo seemed to have cleared up their programming act a little when implementing MRS as when I looked at it anyway it seemed pretty hard to crack. Now I'm starting to think that maybe there's some shortcomings that can be exploited there too...


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## reggers (Jul 27, 2002)

That fixed my problem as well. You wouldn't believe how much time I've spent installing different versions of TiVo Desktop, Bonjour, mucking around with my router settings, restarting computers and both TiVo Units.....HOURS!!!!

Now how long for TiVo to fix the problem!?!!? What's the best way to escalate this to them as without a fix, the TiVo Desktop Software is basically useless.


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## msmart (Jan 3, 2007)

reggers, the work around is the fix. No need to wait for TiVo.

To me, the curl.conf work around resolves the problem so regardless of what TiVo does, I'm not installing it.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

reggers said:


> That fixed my problem as well. You wouldn't believe how much time I've spent installing different versions of TiVo Desktop, Bonjour, mucking around with my router settings, restarting computers and both TiVo Units.....HOURS!!!!
> 
> Now how long for TiVo to fix the problem!?!!? What's the best way to escalate this to them as without a fix, the TiVo Desktop Software is basically useless.


I'm not sure why you are so hyper. If you are running the latest version of TD and have made the change to the curl.conf file, TD is no longer "useless". This option isn't available to me as I am running Win2K, which is why I am glad I switched to pyTivo and kmttg a while back.


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## reggers (Jul 27, 2002)

A bit hyper because I'd rather it be fixed the right way rather than me screwing around with config files every time there's an issue.

Also - I'm a bit frustrated as this problem occurred at the same time I was upgrading my network (removing some old routers/switches) and also installing some new external storage. I had my main machine down for about 2 days and when I brought everything back up, this is the one thing that wouldn't work and I beat my head against the wall for 4 days trying to figure out what I had done wrong. 

Obviously not checking here first is what I did wrong.

As soon as my current transfers/conversions are done, I'll implement the curl.conf change.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

reggers said:


> A bit hyper because I'd rather it be fixed the right way rather than me screwing around with config files every time there's an issue.
> 
> Also - I'm a bit frustrated as this problem occurred at the same time I was upgrading my network (removing some old routers/switches) and also installing some new external storage. I had my main machine down for about 2 days and when I brought everything back up, this is the one thing that wouldn't work and I beat my head against the wall for 4 days trying to figure out what I had done wrong.
> 
> ...


I suppose I was a bit lucky(?) in that regard as I was at a friends house from Thursday afternoon to Saturday afternoon and all I knew was that her TiVo did not receive something that should have been auto pushed to it from my system. When I got back and tried the transfer again and got the error, the only other things I tried was transferring a different file and using pyTivo and TD instead of kmttg. Then I checked the TCF and found that using java downloads instead of curl worked.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> I'm not sure why you are so hyper. If you are running the latest version of TD and have made the change to the curl.conf file, TD is no longer "useless". This option isn't available to me as I am running Win2K, which is why I am glad I switched to pyTivo and kmttg a while back.


I'd be hyper to think about mere mortals now having non-functioning file transfers and no way know how to fix it, with Tivo support saying there's nobody else having that problem.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

netringer said:


> I'd be hyper to think about mere mortals now having non-functioning file transfers and no way know how to fix it, with Tivo support saying there's nobody else having that problem.


That would explain why people who _*don't*_ know how or can't fix it are hyper. I know I would be hyper if I didn't have kmttg and pyTivo since I _*can't*_ fix TD. It doesn't explain why people who do know how and can easily fix it are still hyper. Still mad at TiVo, absolutely. Hyper, no.

In cases like this, TiVo has become like most other companies - they are loathe to admit that there is a problem on their end even if they know for certain that there is one and the techs are actively working to solve it.

A friend of mine just finished a short stint as a CSR in support of a new s/w launch. She got called on the carpet one time for informing the user that they (the company) were experiencing server problems. Apparently, she was only supposed to say that she would "look into the problem" that the user was having and get back to him.


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## djl25 (May 26, 2005)

Just for kicks, I loaded a copy of tivoapp into a hex editor and changed the "1" in 2013 to a "2". Copied it back to the (hacked) TiVo, restarted, and now transfers from nowplaying/TivoConnect page are working fine. Guess I bought myself another ten years...



wmcbrine said:


> I've seen notting's proof that the date is hardcoded, and has been for many years (probably since the beginning). So just to nail the coffin on this thing, I thought I'd grep my copy of an old tivoapp (11.0b) for the string, in case it was there in plain text. They wouldn't do _that_, right? Yeah, they would:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

djl25 said:


> Just for kicks, I loaded a copy of tivoapp into a hex editor and changed the "1" in 2013 to a "2". Copied it back to the (hacked) TiVo, restarted, and now transfers from nowplaying/TivoConnect page are working fine. Guess I bought myself another ten years...


Or at least until the SSL certificate expires.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

lpwcomp said:


> That would explain why people who _*don't*_ know how or can't fix it are hyper. I know I would be hyper if I didn't have kmttg and pyTivo since I _*can't*_ fix TD...


To be perfectly nitpicky about it, TD doesn't need fixing. It's the TiVos themselves that were hard-coded to blow a puff of smoke in Phelp's face while the Secretary diasavowed any knowledge.

Too bad they didn't set the date two days earlier, but I guess we can call this one the St. TiVo's Day Massacre.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

I suspect that were planning on actually using the cookie to do some kind of validation and that à new cookie would be created each time but the whole idea got lost somehow.

I also suspect that Any "fix" TiVo sends out will be to TD rather than to the TiVo s/w.


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## winesnob (Nov 5, 2007)

Does anyone know of a workaround for the Tivo Expander add-in for Windows Home Server? I can't find a curl.conf file anywhere.


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## reneg (Jun 19, 2002)

winesnob said:


> Does anyone know of a workaround for the Tivo Expander add-in for Windows Home Server? I can't find a curl.conf file anywhere.


I assume this is in reference to the HP Tivo Expander add-in. It looks like the HP Tivo Expander add-in does not use curl for program transfer. From the executables, there is a tivocli.exe that looks to be what HP uses to transfer programs. I wouldn't expect an update from HP as that product line is end of life.

You may want to either wait until Tivo fixes the issue in the Tivo boxes or though not as clean an installation as a WHS add-in, you may want to consider installing java & KMTTG on your WHS. KMTGG can run as a service & has a workaround for the Tivo date issue. Installing KMTTG would require a manual install through remote desktop and may be more than you want to take on.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

I doubt that TiVo will fix it in the TiVo boxes. Most likely they will release a "fixed" TD.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

lpwcomp said:


> I doubt that TiVo will fix it in the TiVo boxes. Most likely they will release a "fixed" TD.


Didn't TiVo farm out coding Tivo Desktop? Would they even know where to look in the code? 

Seems like it would be easier to patch the tivoapp and then push it to all Tivos. I wouldn't think it would require a full blown software update.
But, what do I know?


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

steve614 said:


> Seems like it would be easier to patch the tivoapp and then push it to all Tivos. I wouldn't think it would require a full blown software update.


If they don't fix it in the DVR by fixing tivoapp they will leave Transfer software apps on Apple computers, Windows Home Server, and Netgear devices unable to work properly with the DVRs. There are probably even other things that are broken that haven't been mentioned here yet that would also not get fixed. The only right way for TiVo to fix is it they way you suggest.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Has Tivo said when this is getting fixed? Should I call Tivo support...I mean they get it that this is a big problem, right?

My friend's in the market for a new Tivo, hate that I have to explain "well, see that feature doesn't work right right now..."


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## Agent86 (Jan 18, 2002)

For anyone that was directly using the TiVo's built-in web server to download shows on Mac or Linux, I put together this curl command from the various threads here.

```
curl --cookie sid=abc -q '<Download MPEG-PS URL from TiVo>' -c /tmp/cookies --retry 12 --retry-delay 10 --digest -u tivo:<TiVo MAK> -o <file name you want>.TiVo
```


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

morac said:


> Speaking of which, the next "doomsday" date is December 2016. That's when the SSL certificate on the Series 3 boxes expires. I don't have a S2 to test with, but I'm guessing that expires sooner.


Oh great. What will THAT do?

And why is it taking Tivo so long to fix this? I called them last night, figuring the more people call, the more they'll get it that they need to fix it. The support guy seemed like 50% clued in. Seemed to actually be kind of aware of an issue, but really didn't get what was causing it. Oh well, still better than average for support hehee


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

CuriousMark said:


> If they don't fix it in the DVR by fixing tivoapp they will leave Transfer software apps on Apple computers, Windows Home Server, and Netgear devices unable to work properly with the DVRs. There are probably even other things that are broken that haven't been mentioned here yet that would also not get fixed. The only right way for TiVo to fix is it they way you suggest.


What they _*should*_ do is not necessarily what they _*will*_ do. It's not as if they really care about third party apps.


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## alansh (Jan 3, 2003)

They never really did fix the Series 1 DST issue. When the Daylight Saving dates changed in 2007, the Series1 still kept the old dates, so for a few weeks each year its clock is off. The season pass recordings were okay because they were done in GMT, but manual recordings were an hour off, and the times displayed in the interface were also off. The proper fix would be to update the Linux kernel with the revised timezone file. Instead, they send an update to your location's timezone setting during those weeks between the new and old dates. If you're in Central, it sets it to Eastern, for example.

Fortunately it was someone here on Tivo Community that figured out the timezone trick.

Pushing a full new update was a problem because (a) it had been 5 years since the last update, and (b) any update carries the risk of bricking the device or otherwise generating support calls. Given the age and how long it was out of support, they didn't want to deal with it.

For this issue, I'm sure they'll issue a fix for the Premieres.

Older boxes, I'm not so sure of. As far as I can tell, the last software release for the Series2 was in 2009 and the Series3/HD in 2011. My guess is they'll hack the curl file like was documented here in Tivo Desktop.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

steve614 said:


> Didn't TiVo farm out coding Tivo Desktop? Would they even know where to look in the code?
> 
> Seems like it would be easier to patch the tivoapp and then push it to all Tivos. I wouldn't think it would require a full blown software update.
> But, what do I know?


They don't need to look in the TiVo Desktop code because that's not where the problem is.

It's the TiVos themselves sending out the outdated cookie.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

unitron said:


> They don't need to look in the TiVo Desktop code because that's not where the problem is.
> 
> It's the TiVos themselves sending out the outdated cookie.


Correct. I was just commenting on the speculation that TiVo is going to fix this in Tivo Desktop, not on the Tivos.

http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/fo...#e11078372&channelID=10&portalPageId=10432560

(Look for post #13)


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## alansh (Jan 3, 2003)

I'm pretty sure that they can't just patch tivoapp. Any changes on an unhacked Tivo will cause it to fail the boot-time security checks. So they'd also have to issue a new initramdisk with the new signature, and sign the initramdisk so it will be accepted by the boot rom.

At that point, you might as well just do a full release.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

A TiVo rep posted on their forums that they are going to update the TiVo Desktop client to fix this. While, not ideal I guess it's the best we could hope for for older models. I still expect the cookie will be updated in the Premiere models.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

morac said:


> A TiVo rep posted on their forums that they are going to update the TiVo Desktop client to fix this. While, not ideal I guess it's the best we could hope for for older models. I still expect the cookie will be updated in the Premiere models.


Since the cookie serves no useful purpose, what would be the point?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> Since the cookie serves no useful purpose, what would be the point?


Because without it, TiVo third party partner products such as the Netgear ReadyNAS, will continue to fail to work. There was someone complaining loudly in the TiVo forums that the $900 ReadyNAS he bought specifically because of it's TiVo support is now useless.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2010-07/tivo-collaborates-with-netgear-and-hp-for-nas/

http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=69689


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

morac said:


> Because without it, TiVo third party partner products such as the Netgear ReadyNAS, will continue to fail to work. There was someone complaining loudly in the TiVo forums that the $900 ReadyNAS he bought specifically because of it's TiVo support is now useless.
> 
> http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2010-07/tivo-collaborates-with-netgear-and-hp-for-nas/
> 
> http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=69689


A change that is Premiere only will not address the problem. The OP of the thread pointed to by your second link has two TiVo HDs. The most recent post indicates that the appropriate NAS analyst (named Skywalker apparently) "is aware of the issue and will be addressing it." I suppose that could mean that he will be using Jedi mind tricks on the weak minded fools at TiVo to get them to do something..


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

lpwcomp said:


> A change that is Premiere only will not address the problem. The OP of the thread pointed to by your second link has two TiVo HDs. The most recent post indicates that the appropriate NAS analyst (named Skywalker apparently) "is aware of the issue and will be addressing it." I suppose that could mean that he will be using Jedi mind tricks on the weak minded fools at TiVo to get them to do something..


LOL


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## JoeTaxpayer (Dec 23, 2008)

tluxon said:


> It's nearly impossible for this to be a Windows issue, as I've had the same symptoms of an expiry date issue on 3 different PCs with separate OS's (Win7 x32, Win7 x64, and WinXP). The WinXP PC hasn't had updates applied for at least 4 months.


That may be, but it can't be a Windows issue because I'm on a Mac network, and this issue seems to be affecting the iTivo app as well.


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## JoeTaxpayer (Dec 23, 2008)

morac said:


> A TiVo rep posted on their forums that they are going to update the TiVo Desktop client to fix this. While, not ideal I guess it's the best we could hope for for older models. I still expect the cookie will be updated in the Premiere models.


This wont help those using iTivo or any third party app.


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## msmart (Jan 3, 2007)

JoeTaxpayer said:


> This wont help those using iTivo or any third party app.


Joe, for the iTivo part, look down a few threads in the forum index,

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=503168

Don't know if it works but there you have it.


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## JoeTaxpayer (Dec 23, 2008)

msmart said:


> Joe, for the iTivo part, look down a few threads in the forum index,
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=503168
> 
> Don't know if it works but there you have it.


Thank you - I used the advice at http://code.google.com/p/itivo/issues/detail?id=234 which works for one TiVo at a time, by IP address, which is fine, my TiVos all have static IPs. 
Your link looks like it may work regardless of IP. I'll check it out further. Much thanks.


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## Agent86 (Jan 18, 2002)

You may also want to check out cTiVo.

It is a brand new entry in 3rd party TiVo software for the Mac. It is even being recomendad by the iTiVo folks!


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## JoeTaxpayer (Dec 23, 2008)

Agent86 said:


> You may also want to check out cTiVo.
> 
> It is a brand new entry in 3rd party TiVo software for the Mac. It is even being recomendad by the iTiVo folks!


cTiVo looks promising, but potential users should note, Lion is the minimum OS.


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