# Tivo Premiere - First impressions



## AbMagFab

Got one from BB this morning, initial impressions:

*Pros:*
1) New UI looks nice, and if it ever speeds up and becomes the primary UI for most screens, it should be a nice, minor upgrade
1a) After using the couple of new UI screens for a couple days, I can definitely see the potential, but it's such a small part of the overall system, and it's still so crazy sluggish.
2) Canadians can see their flag on initial setup
3) Theoretically a new platform for new services (but no new services are available nor have any been announced)

*Cons:*
1) *Can't backup or expand drive*- no ETA on an update, as Tivo has changed the file system structure
2) The whole box feels and looks really light-weight and cheesy
3) *The power cord is different*, so you can't easily swap into a rack
4) *On-screen setup is still painfully slow*, and still the non-HD UI - *spinning ovals and all*
5) *Only supports one MCARD, not one SCARD*
6) *Buggy!* After initial patch/reboot, I got a black screen with sound, but no menus or picture or anything. Still has hard-reboot hang bug, periodically gets stuck in a black screen with ba-doop sounds, but no picture - sometimes Tivo menu works
7) *PAINFULLY SLOW *user interface, and only a couple of screens/menus have been converted to the new UI
7a) Looking at a NPL over MRV is even the old UI
7b) Even the little Tivo icon on the program description banner is still a stretched 4x3 version
8) Only a couple screens are new, the rest is identical, and roughly the same speed as the Tivo HD/Series 3.
9) Minor - can only get the new "intro" video if the HD UI is turned off (i.e. use the old UI)
10) *No more channel icons on the Now Playing List*? Only when you select an item do you see the channel icon - big disappointment for me, especially when looking through wishlist folders (e.g. to know what's an NBC L&O vs. USA vs. TNT)

I'm really unimpressed and disappointed! This is the first Tivo that doesn't feel like a Tivo - buggy, slow, and inconsistent UI. Bummer.

*STRONG RECOMMENDATION as of 3/29:
STAY AWAY UNTIL THIS THING IS PATCHED UP! There are no speed improvements anywhere, only a sluggish couple of new screens, and nothing else has changed, except it's way more buggy now.*

Some pictures-

Back side - only 4 screws now:









But power cord is different for no reason:









And the whole thing is just cheesy looking and feeling - notice how the plastic middle piece isn't quite flush?









Inside shots - hard drive is easier to get out - no longer that one really hard to get screw:


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## AbMagFab

Startup screens - doesn't feel like an upgrade yet:









Congrats Canadians:









Some more startup screens - this all looks very familiar, including the oval circles - where's the new HD UI?









HDMI aware, and resolution aware at startup:









Hmmm... I can't use an SCARD I had lying around? MCARDS *only*?









The dreaded "Loading..." page... all new! Oh, wait, it's the same:









Interesting... after the channel setup, it immediately said there was a service update? I guess they know that not a single box will ship with a current OS, ever?









And, the dreaded and painfully painfully painfully slow service update loading screen:


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## jmill

can you take a few pics of the inside of the unit?


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## bkdtv

jmill said:


> can you take a few pics of the inside of the unit?


Perhaps you missed it, but I did so already last week.


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## y2flyy

I was the first to pick one up a BB
I get home and much to my expectation, I'm disappointed

I had NO IDEA this stupid thing needed a freaking cable card. That sucks!
I'm sure my cable company doesn't provide them

I know you're probably saying that I'm the idiot for not knowing.
But I've been reading on this thing and anticipated it for months, no where did I see it say a cablecard is required


Secondly I could fly to the moon faster than this thing takes to load up. Its already been any hour and i got another message "service update this may take up to an hour, possible longer"
LOL it takes 2 hours to setup a freaking DVR!

MOxi why? why didnt I buy you instead!


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## ldobson

y2flyy said:


> I was the first to pick one up a BB
> I get home and much to my expectation, I'm disappointed
> 
> I had NO IDEA this stupid thing needed a freaking cable card. That sucks!
> I'm sure my cable company doesn't provide them
> 
> I know you're probably saying that I'm the idiot for not knowing.
> But I've been reading on this thing and anticipated it for months, no where did I see it say a cablecard is required
> 
> Secondly I could fly to the moon faster than this thing takes to load up. Its already been any hour and i got another message "service update this may take up to an hour, possible longer"
> LOL it takes 2 hours to setup a freaking DVR!
> 
> MOxi why? why didnt I buy you instead!


You only need a cable card if you want to record Digital channels. The Premiere will do your analog channels just fine.


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## Unseen Llama

I love the message I'm at during setup... "Preparing the service update...This may take up to an hour, possibly longer."  

Was it ever established if there was an additional update from the recent reviews from Engadget/Gizmodo/etc?


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## tomm1079

bkdtv said:


> Perhaps you missed it, but I did so already last week.


ahhh i posted that PDF in another thread when i saw it. Just saying that the person did a good job. glad to know who did it...nice job on it.


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## andrew12901

Cable cards are required? I only have basic analog cable, will I need one also?


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## ldobson

andrew12901 said:


> Cable cards are required? I only have basic analog cable, will I need one also?


No. The unit will function fine and will record all your analog channels.


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## y2flyy

ldobson said:


> You only need a cable card if you want to record Digital channels. The Premiere will do your analog channels just fine.


Analog channels? well why dont I just go back to watching antenna tv?
LOL I have digitial cable with hd channels and all. Why would I want to drop $300 to go back to watching analog?

Am I missing something?


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## ldobson

y2flyy said:


> Analog channels? well why dont I just go back to watching antenna tv?
> LOL I have digitial cable with hd channels and all. Why would I want to drop $300 to go back to watching analog?
> 
> Am I missing something?


Well in that case I am surprised that you did not realise that many digital QAM cable channels are encrypted. While the Premiere will replace your cable set top box, its needs a way to decrypt the channels, so just like the cable co box requires a cablecard, which are free from most providers for your first card.


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## andrew12901

Sweet, thanks for the reply.


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## bkdtv

y2flyy said:


> Analog channels? well why dont I just go back to watching antenna tv?
> LOL I have digitial cable with hd channels and all. Why would I want to drop $300 to go back to watching analog?


If you have digital cable, why don't you get a CableCard? Moxi can't view encrypted channels without a CableCard either.



tomm1079 said:


> ahhh i posted that PDF in another thread when i saw it. Just saying that the person did a good job. glad to know who did it...nice job on it.


If you want to see some 1600x1200 internal images, you can do so right here.


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## comma splice

y2flyy said:


> Analog channels? well why dont I just go back to watching antenna tv?
> LOL I have digitial cable with hd channels and all. Why would I want to drop $300 to go back to watching analog?
> 
> Am I missing something?


Who's your cable company?

You'll be able to get a CableCARD from any major cable provider.

In fact, there are threads for almost every provider, compiled here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=317989

It's a pain to do at first, but only a one-time pain for most.


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## BlackBetty

y2flyy said:


> Am I missing something?


I'd say so.


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## comma splice

y2flyy said:


> I had NO IDEA this stupid thing needed a freaking cable card. That sucks!
> I'm sure my cable company doesn't provide them
> 
> I know you're probably saying that I'm the idiot for not knowing.
> But I've been reading on this thing and anticipated it for months, no where did I see it say a cablecard is required


It has been said here, hundreds of times.

If you had read TiVo's Web site, as well, you would've seen:

"** CableCARD required for receipt of digital cable service. Additional fees may apply from your cable provider."


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## y2flyy

I'll probably be the first tivo premiere owner to return this thing
I'm usually not a quick returner (if there is such a thing lol)
But only analog? i had a tivo before I never used a cablecard if I recall correctly I hooked my cable box into the tivo.

This sucks man, I've been waiting for months, woke up early went to best buy. 
For some reason I knew it would be something


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## y2flyy

comma said:


> Who's your cable company?
> 
> You'll be able to get a CableCARD from any major cable provider.
> 
> In fact, there are threads for almost every provider, compiled here:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=317989
> 
> It's a pain to do at first, but only a one-time pain for most.


Thanks I'll try to call my cable company tomorrow. But I recall about 6 months ago trying to get one for my HTPC and they didnt even know what they were.

I'll give it a shot though


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## ldobson

y2flyy said:


> I was the first to pick one up a BB
> I get home and much to my expectation, I'm disappointed
> 
> I had NO IDEA this stupid thing needed a freaking cable card. That sucks!
> I'm sure my cable company doesn't provide them
> 
> I know you're probably saying that I'm the idiot for not knowing.
> But I've been reading on this thing and anticipated it for months, no where did I see it say a cablecard is required
> 
> Secondly I could fly to the moon faster than this thing takes to load up. Its already been any hour and i got another message "service update this may take up to an hour, possible longer"
> LOL it takes 2 hours to setup a freaking DVR!
> 
> MOxi why? why didnt I buy you instead!


Just to clarify, a TV is also required.


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## y2flyy

comma said:


> It has been said here, hundreds of times.
> 
> If you had read TiVo's Web site, as well, you would've seen:
> 
> "** CableCARD required for receipt of digital cable service. Additional fees may apply from your cable provider."


I'm been trolling these forums since the announcement of premiere and been on the tivo site....I never saw that a cablecard is required


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## y2flyy

ldobson said:


> Just to clarify, a TV is also required.


lol thats pretty funny


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## CubsWin

y2flyy said:


> I had NO IDEA this stupid thing needed a freaking cable card. That sucks!





> MOxi why? why didnt I buy you instead!


Moxi would require a cable card for digital channels just the same as TiVo.


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## y2flyy

by the way someone else in this thread didnt know either.

so its not just me


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## y2flyy

CubsWin said:


> Moxi would require a cable card for digital channels just the same as TiVo.


DAMN!


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## ldobson

y2flyy said:


> lol thats pretty funny


Yeah, I`m sure theres others who dont realise a cablecard is required. With the set top cable co boxes, the cable cards come preinstalled and fixed to the unit, so theres often no preception of anything but the box.


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## comma splice

y2flyy said:


> by the way someone else in this thread didnt know either.
> 
> so its not just me


No shame in not knowing. If you're new to TiVo, I could see how you would've missed that.

However, let me reiterate that if you want to enjoy all of the benefits that TiVo provides, it's a necessary evil to spend the hour or so with the installer to get your CableCARD.

If, when you call, they claim not to know what a CableCARD is, ask for a supervisor. They do have them.


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## y2flyy

comma said:


> No shame in not knowing. If you're new to TiVo, I could see how you would've missed that.
> 
> However, let me reiterate that if you want to enjoy all of the benefits that TiVo provides, it's a necessary evil to spend the hour or so with the installer to get your CableCARD.
> 
> If, when you call, they claim not to know what a CableCARD is, ask for a supervisor. They do have them.


Thanks everyone I'll give it a good shot with my cable company.

Also the box finally came up.
Seems much faster than Engadget's review video

The top bar doesn't reload on every click, maybe the update addressed that major issue....


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## comma splice

y2flyy said:


> Thanks everyone I'll give it a good shot with my cable company.
> 
> Also the box finally came up.
> Seems much faster than Engadget's review video
> 
> The top bar doesn't reload on every click, maybe the update addressed that major issue....


Do you have an antenna you could hook it up to? That would allow you to pick up your local channels in HD to quench your HD thirst until an installer can come out.


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## jmpage2

Looking for impressions of the unit, not people crying about cable card requirements.


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## y2flyy

comma said:


> Do you have an antenna you could hook it up to? That would allow you to pick up your local channels in HD to quench your HD thirst until an installer can come out.


No but I should be able to get to my cable provider tomorrow, hopefully


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## Mike-Mike

ldobson said:


> Just to clarify, a TV is also required.


I almost spit out my coffee!


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## Unseen Llama

Okay, stupid question time. Tivo went through all the updates, yet it's still on the same old interface. Never had the option to choose the new HD interface. Is that still only available for select reviewers?


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## innocentfreak

No it is only an option if you are using a HD set though. Are you on a HD set?


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## Unseen Llama

innocentfreak said:


> No it is only an option if you are using a HD set though. Are you on a HD set?


Yes. Pansonic HDTV with 720p resolution. Weird. Hooked up through an HDMI cable.


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## whattheheck

y2flyy said:


> I'll probably be the first tivo premiere owner to return this thing
> I'm usually not a quick returner (if there is such a thing lol)
> But only analog? i had a tivo before I never used a cablecard if I recall correctly I hooked my cable box into the tivo.
> 
> This sucks man, I've been waiting for months, woke up early went to best buy.
> For some reason I knew it would be something


I call BS.


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## patatrox

Unseen Llama said:


> Okay, stupid question time. Tivo went through all the updates, yet it's still on the same old interface. Never had the option to choose the new HD interface. Is that still only available for select reviewers?


TiVo Central --> Messages & Settings --> Restart or Reset System --> Choose TiVo Menus


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## Unseen Llama

patatrox said:


> TiVo Central --> Messages & Settings --> Restart or Reset System --> Choose TiVo Menus


That's not an option. I forced a connection again to Tivo's server. It's loading info again and is doing it very veeerrry slowly. Once that's done, I'll restart the Premier and see if anything has changed.


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## bkdtv

The new HD interface should be the default once you've actually got the appropriate software.

TiVo's original plan was to roll out the HD interface in early April. It's not clear whether that interface is available to customers today.



Unseen Llama said:


> That's not an option. I forced a connection again to Tivo's server. It's loading info again and is doing it very veeerrry slowly. Once that's done, I'll restart the Premier and see if anything has changed.


What software version do you have?

If you still have the original December build of the 14.0 or 14.1 software, the "loading..." screen could take 4-6 hours.

When the software with the HD UI is available, it is *supposed* to download as part of initial guided setup. It doesn't sound like that happened for you, so I'm curious whether a subsequent connection will grab that software.


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## Unseen Llama

bkdtv said:


> The new HD interface should be the default once you've actually got the appropriate software.
> 
> TiVo's original plan was to roll out the HD interface in early April. It's not clear whether that interface is available to customers today.
> 
> For any new Premiere owner that completed guided setup...what software version do you have?


14.1-01-3-746


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## whattheheck

jmpage2 said:


> Looking for impressions of the unit, not people crying about cable card requirements.


+1


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## Unseen Llama

whattheheck said:


> +1


Well...the old UI is snappier...


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## jmpage2

Unseen Llama said:


> Well...the old UI is snappier...


Okay, thanks. More interested in the new UI though.


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## bkdtv

Be aware the TiVo Premiere still has to spend a day or so indexing the guide data. It should be noticeably faster in another 24-36 hours.

Jmpage -- I am happy to answer any questions you've got about the new interface, or any questions you want answered in a new FAQ.


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## brasscat

I believe it's federal law requiring cable companies to furnish cable cards to their customers. So if you're dealing with a "cable company" they should have them. I first got a cable card in 2007 from my cable company, which at the time is Time Warner.

Just to review for those new to TiVo:

1. TiVo can accept standard definition analog from antenna and cable, and HD picture over antenna (all without a cable card).
2. If you want HD cable (or premium channels) you need a cable card.
3. Cable card technology isn't perfect technology: It doesn't allow you to access a cable provider's on demand or pay-per-view content.
4. For some reason, setting up a TiVo for the first time always takes hours and hours. This is basically a one time thing. System updates down the road happen automatically and aren't as painful.

My Wondering: I remember in some video I watched someone stating the new menu was 1080p. I wonder if that means your out of luck if your set is running 720? 

My new TiVo ships Monday, so I'll likely get it Tuesday or Wednesday (I'm 30 minutes from where they ship the things). But I have to say reading initial reviews I'm sort of not all that excited; Slow menus, requiring an immediate software update, Flash-based menu veneer, cheap feeling remote and looking hardware, no integrated wifi on a device that pretty much requires it, the list goes on and on. Still, with all that being said, it's better than the DVRs provided by the cable company, but still, we've waited a long time for the next generation TiVo, and it really doesn't look like the TiVo Premiere is going to initially deliver much more than an incremental upgrade to 1080p.


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## Unseen Llama

jmpage2 said:


> Okay, thanks. More interested in the new UI though.


 I was kidding. Still trying to get the HDUI to kick in...


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## orangeboy

bkdtv said:


> The new HD interface should be the default once you've actually got the appropriate software.
> 
> TiVo's original plan was to roll out the HD interface in early April. It's not clear whether that interface is available to customers today.


According to TiVoPony, they flipped the switch on Friday:



TiVoPony said:


> ...It launched last night - we threw the big switch and the new interface is now available on those shiny new TiVo Premiere DVRs. It's the first time since that original Series1 that we've redone the hardware and the software simultaneously. And there are an amazing number of changes to the service infrastructure as well (although most of that isn't visible to you all). A complete reboot of our product, across all fronts. Series4 is a new start...


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## ldobson

Hmm Interesting. Will the Premiere downscale to 720p? I thought it was designed only for 1080p, which most every TV worth having is now.


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## bkdtv

ldobson said:


> Hmm Interesting. Will the Premiere downscale to 720p?


Yes, it will.

The TiVo doesn't upscale to 1080p. It will only upscale to a maximum of 1080i. It will output 1080p24 content (like PC videos, future VOD) as is.

It's worth noting that the new HD UI eliminates the 720p UI resync seen on the TivoHD and Series3. If you have native output of 720p and 1080i resolutions enabled, and you are on a 720p channel, the HD UI comes up in 720p; if you are on a 1080i channel, the HD UI comes up in 1080i. There are no unnecessary resolution resyncs.

This improvement does not extend to the classic interface.


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## Thuye

I bought a lamp for the bedroom and it didn&#8217;t say anywhere on the box or in the instructions that electricity AND a light bulb were required.....(Sorry, just couldn&#8217;t pass it up)


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## whattheheck

Thuye said:


> I bought a lamp for the bedroom and it didn't say anywhere on the box or in the instructions that electricity AND a light bulb were required.....(Sorry, just couldn't pass it up)


You have no idea how mad I was when I found out I had to put gas in my new car.

I mean, it cost $45,000...


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## ldobson

Can anyone confirm or deny whether the multi user program tagging seen on some of the reviews exists on the premiere or if this was simply a mock up?

i.e specific programming can be grouped or tagged with specific names "Bill", "Bob", "Jack" and "Jill"?


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## Mike-Mike

the tv joke was funny, now you all are beating a dead horse....


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## innocentfreak

I believe this was confirmed to be a mock-up. Though it might be something we see later.


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## bkdtv

ldobson said:


> Can anyone confirm or deny whether the multi user program tagging seen on some of the reviews exists on the premiere or if this was simply a mock up?


It does not exist on the Premiere at this time.

Btw, I just copied my "benchmark" comparisons to this thread.


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## bkdtv

Tip for new Premiere owners -- pressing the UP button will show you the current output resolution.


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## Richard Cranium

So, bottom line, is it really as slow as the pro's made it out to be? I've got an XL and a regular on order from TiVo.com to replace my Hughes DirecTivo and a DirecTV HD 21?

Did I make the right choice?

Is there a way to "sync" the boxes so that if I want to record 3 shows at once I can have access to the Idle tuners on another box?


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## Unseen Llama

orangeboy said:


> According to TiVoPony, they flipped the switch on Friday:


I'm repeating Guided Setup again. The forced connection to Tivo loaded something, just don't know what.

In the Guided Setup, is there a screen to choose the new HDUI?


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## bkdtv

Unseen Llama said:


> In the Guided Setup, is there a screen to choose the new HDUI?


No.



E. Norma Stitz said:


> So, bottom line, is it really as slow as the pro's made it out to be? I've got an XL and a regular on order from TiVo.com to replace my Hughes DirecTivo and a DirecTV HD 21?


The HD UI is as slow as the reviews indicate. Some parts aren't too bad. The real problem is that it is slow in all the wrong places. For example, paging through My Shows (NPL) is unbearably slow. I'm told there should be an update within a few weeks to address that.

As others have suggested, TiVo really needs to implement some form caching for programs on the NPL and the To Do List. TiVo also needs to change the way it refreshes/reloads the Discovery Bar (bar at top of screen).

You can still use classic, and that is faster than ever.



E. Norma Stitz said:


> Is there a way to "sync" the boxes so that if I want to record 3 shows at once I can have access to the Idle tuners on another box?


No. I wouldn't count on seeing that until TiVo implements multi-room streaming (rather than multi-room transfers).


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## Unseen Llama

bkdtv said:


> No.


Guess it's just a waiting game then until it's enabled on my box. That kind of sucks.


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## Richard Cranium

bkdtv said:


> No.
> 
> The HD UI is as slow as the reviews indicate. Some parts aren't too bad. The problem is that it is slow in all the wrong places. For example, paging through My Shows (NPL) is unbearably slow. I'm told there should be an update within a few weeks to address that.
> 
> You can still use classic, and that is faster than ever.


Since I'm using "classic" now I guess I can live without the HD interface (for now) Are all the "search features" still available in classic mode? Or is it more like the S3/HD's interface where you have to go to 3 different screens to search for youtube/netflix/TV etc.?



bkdtv said:


> No. I wouldn't count on seeing that until TiVo implements multi-room streaming (rather than multi-room transfers).


Bummer. At least according to your benchmark tests the transfers aren't painfully slow. Still hope I made the right choice. Thanks for the help!.

Oh, I didn't notice.... Are your transfer benchmarks using wired or wireless connections? If wireless was it Wireless G or N?

Thanks again.


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## innocentfreak

bkdtv said:


> No.


I thought there was based off the screen Zatz posted.










It sounded like that popped up during his guided setup.


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## Richard Cranium

innocentfreak said:


> I thought there was based off the screen Zatz posted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It sounded like that popped up during his guided setup.


I believe the "review" units have different software than the general publics?


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## bkdtv

Dave's unit was equipped with a newer software than mine. I didn't have that option as part of guided setup.


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## davezatz

bkdtv said:


> Dave's unit was equipped with a newer software than mine. I didn't have that option as part of guided setup.


The HDUI was up by default on my box, I assume it decided on its own when I confirmed a HD output resolution. Nothing during setup - *the screengrab I posted was a menu item*. I assume my box was flagged for the HDUI ahead of time, and maybe the software was updated prior to shipping even. From PR, I thought the plan was that towards mid-April customers would get the HDUI. But Pony's Bluemoon post implies it'll be ready at launch. Hm.


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## bkdtv

E. Norma Stitz said:


> Since I'm using "classic" now I guess I can live without the HD interface (for now) Are all the "search features" still available in classic mode? Or is it more like the S3/HD's interface where you have to go to 3 different screens to search for youtube/netflix/TV etc.?


You don't get the new search features in classic mode.



E. Norma Stitz said:


> Oh, I didn't notice.... Are your transfer benchmarks using wired or wireless connections? If wireless was it Wireless G or N?


I am using MoCA (networking over coax). It's essentially 100Mbps wired networking over coax.

You won't see throughput anywhere close to my results with the TiVo 802.11g wireless adapter. That adapter maxes at out at 16-18Mbps, IIRC, and that assumes you've got an excellent signal from your router.


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## bkdtv

For whatever reason, the HD UI is not yet available for everyone. Member *Unseen Llama* and several others report having the the current HD UI menu version, but "HDUI Available" is set to disabled.


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## Richard Cranium

bkdtv said:


> You don't get the new search features in classic mode.
> 
> I am using MoCA (networking over coax). It's essentially 100Mbps wired networking over coax.
> 
> You won't see throughput anywhere close to my results with the TiVo 802.11g wireless adapter. That adapter maxes at out at 16-18Mbps, IIRC, and that assumes you've got an excellent signal from your router.


Gotta admit, this is the first I've heard of "MoCA". Since my entire house is wired with Coax I guess I'll do some research on MoCA. Glad I found this board, you guys really seem to know your sh1t!

Thanks again. (back on subject thread)


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## tomm1079

E. Norma Stitz said:


> Gotta admit, this is the first I've heard of "MoCA". Since my entire house is wired with Coax I guess I'll do some research on MoCA. Glad I found this board, you guys really seem to know your sh1t!
> 
> Thanks again. (back on subject thread)


same here!

I am using wireless N but after reading about this thing it seems great.....


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## tomm1079

bkdtv said:


> You don't get the new search features in classic mode.
> 
> I am using MoCA (networking over coax). It's essentially 100Mbps wired networking over coax.
> 
> You won't see throughput anywhere close to my results with the TiVo 802.11g wireless adapter. That adapter maxes at out at 16-18Mbps, IIRC, and that assumes you've got an excellent signal from your router.


what routers are you using for MoCA?


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## RojCowles

bkdtv said:


> No.
> <snip>
> No. I wouldn't count on seeing that until TiVo implements multi-room streaming (rather than multi-room transfers).


*Until* ?

Not that I've been exhaustively trawling for info, just obsessively clicking Reload on the Tivo.com Order History page ... ahem ... , but I don't recall Tivo mentioning future plans to enable streaming as opposed to transfers.

Having said that it might not be too much of a stretch given the available network throughput from the Premiere to write a Boxee box, Popbox or similar media extender App that would use the Premiere as just another video source and stream content from the Premiere to the extender box, assuming that encryption, content security and appropriate licensing terms were worked out of course.

--
Roj


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## bkdtv

RojCowles said:


> Not that I've been exhaustively trawling for info, just obsessively clicking Reload on the Tivo.com Order History page ... ahem ... , but I don't recall Tivo mentioning future plans to enable streaming as opposed to transfers.


I was responding to a question about cooperative scheduling. Cooperative scheduling isn't useful if you can't access all recordings on every box, and unless you are a FiOS customer, you can't do that without streaming. Hence, streaming is a prerequisite for that feature.

TiVo hasn't said anything publicly about streaming. That said, we know they plan to release a DirecTiVo, and DirecTV offers DTCP-IP streaming and DLNA on *all* of its HD STB and DVR boxes. A DirecTiVo without that functionality would be DOA.


----------



## nrc

bkdtv said:


> I was responding to a question about cooperative scheduling. Cooperative scheduling isn't useful if you can't access all recordings on every box, and *unless you are a FiOS customer*, you can't do that without streaming. Hence, streaming is a perequisite for that feature.


Or more correctly, a customer of a provider who doesn't mark their content "copy once.".


----------



## greensky

> service update this may take up to an hour, possible longer


Does the service update fix anything they mentioned in the Engadget or Gizmodo reviews? I really want a premier, but I want to make sure they actually enable the second core and speed up the UI a bit before I ugprade.


----------



## AbMagFab

Added some photos in the first couple of posts.


----------



## aaronwt

ldobson said:


> Just to clarify, a TV is also required.


----------



## DaveWhittle

AbMagFab said:


> Added some photos in the first couple of posts.


Thanks for those, interesting!

Question about the audio setup - I'm going to use HDMI for video and optical for audio. Is there an option for this, or is it always sending audio through optical and HDMI if detected?


----------



## steve614

AbMagFab said:


> Added some photos in the first couple of posts.


How do you feel about voiding your warranty on a public forum?


----------



## AbMagFab

steve614 said:


> How do you feel about voiding your warranty on a public forum?


One of my favorite T-Shirts:
http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/generic/8f52/


----------



## macgyver

Switching from DirecTV (although my new Comcast service and the two Premiere boxes are all returnable in the next 30 days). My premieres will arrive a day before the Comcast guy gets here to set up my cable.

How much of the initial setup can I go through without having the cablecards or service? Can I get them to load the software update from TiVo, or do I have to wait until the service is running and then start everything?


----------



## DaveWhittle

macgyver said:


> How much of the initial setup can I go through without having the cablecards or service? Can I get them to load the software update from TiVo, or do I have to wait until the service is running and then start everything?


It looks like you can do everything but the cablecard setup and save that for later:


----------



## lessd

steve614 said:


> How do you feel about voiding your warranty on a public forum?


You think TiVo would know the TSN and block it from warranty repair ? TiVo so far has not been that fussy, if you upgrade your drive and have a non drive problem you can put back the original and TiVo gives you no problem (unless you tell the CSR what you just did).
The bigger problem is how do you go to TiVo after 3 years for a paid replacement (if your TiVo goes south) as TiVo does not want to move the lifetime service after 3 years, it one thing to have to pay $149 for a replacement TiVo but to have to re-pay for Lifetime Service, that would be a bummer.


----------



## aaronwt

lessd said:


> You think TiVo would know the TSN and block it from warranty repair ? TiVo so far has not been that fussy, if you upgrade your drive and have a non drive problem you can put back the original and TiVo gives you no problem (unless you tell the CSR what you just did).
> The bigger problem is how do you go to TiVo after 3 years for a paid replacement (if your TiVo goes south) as TiVo does not want to move the lifetime service after 3 years, it one thing to have to pay $149 for a replacement TiVo but to have to re-pay for Lifetime Service, that would be a bummer.


That was not the case with me in 2007 with my TiVoHD. The CSR told me they could tell that I had upgraded the drive at some point, even though I had put the original back in. So they would not troubleshoot the problem at the time. They said I would have to pay for a refurbished unit even though that TiVoHD was a week old. So I took it back to CC and exchanged it so TiVo would troubleshoot the ridiculous issue they were having with stereo from analog channels.


----------



## lessd

aaronwt said:


> That was not the case with me in 2007 with my TiVoHD. The CSR told me they could tell that I had upgraded the drive at some point, even though I had put the original back in. So they would not troubleshoot the problem at the time. They said I would have to pay for a refurbished unit even though that TiVoHD was a week old. So I took it back to CC and exchanged it so TiVo would troubleshoot the ridiculous issue they were having with stereo from analog channels.


Did you make a few connections for a few days before calling ? and TiVo was still willing to replace your TiVo.


----------



## davezatz

lessd said:


> You think TiVo would know the TSN and block it from warranty repair ?


Maybe, but there's another concern. Hopefully, we're all nice people on the forum. But the Internet is kinda like real life - all sorts of folks. (Many who read the forum don't even post.) In his profile, he lists a blog. Check the registration info and you have his name. Then call TiVo with that and his TSN to cancel service? So, yeah, I'd remove the pic...

Incidentally, this kinda lines up with I've never used any of the services from third parties (other than Yahoo) that allow TiVo scheduling. Same username and password needed to access your online account. TiVo should really go with oAuth or two separate logins. One for managing the TiVo, one for our actual service/billing.

EDIT: I flagged his post for the moderators to take a look and consider removing that pic in case he's out for the evening.


----------



## aaronwt

lessd said:


> Did you make a few connections for a few days before calling ? and TiVo was still willing to replace your TiVo.


They would replace the barnd new, properly functioning unit for a fee. The unit was connected for a week before the call.

The issue was a problem with all the boxes with stereo from analog channels. I assume they fixed it at some point. I got FiOS a month later so I didn't mess with it any more. I did go through another box after the first replacement just to make sure it wasn't the hardware.

With the Premiers I don't have plans on opening them up since I purchased the 3 year warranty from TiVo on all the boxes.


----------



## jfh3

Not sure why others don't have the HDUI - I bought a Premiere (not XL) from BestBuy this morning and have it. 

Do not remember selecting anything during setup for it.


----------



## AbMagFab

Updated now that I've played with it for about 30 minutes. Strongly recommend people stay away from this thing. *It's really buggy, the new UI is painfully slow, and the old UI is about the same.*

There is absolutely no reason to get this, and there are a couple reasons not to get it. *This is a no-brainer - stay away for now.*

Once I get my MCARD tomorrow (hopefully), I'll post more results in case that is the cause of bugginess (i.e. no CC=buggy Tivo 4).


----------



## Unseen Llama

jfh3 said:


> Not sure why others don't have the HDUI - I bought a Premiere (not XL) from BestBuy this morning and have it.
> 
> Do not remember selecting anything during setup for it.


I went through Guided Setup for OTA connection. I do have a feed from Comcast, maybe I'll try to run through the cable setup instead and see if that triggers anything.


----------



## innocentfreak

Any bugs you find, you may want to contribute to this thread.


----------



## vansmack

How long should I expect to be on the "Welcome! Starting up...." screen?

I'm going on 30 minutes with nothing other than that.


----------



## jmpage2

AbMagFab said:


> Updated now that I've played with it for about 30 minutes. Strongly recommend people stay away from this thing. *It's really buggy, the new UI is painfully slow, and the old UI is about the same.*
> 
> There is absolutely no reason to get this, and there are a couple reasons not to get it. *This is a no-brainer - stay away for now.*
> 
> Once I get my MCARD tomorrow (hopefully), I'll post more results in case that is the cause of bugginess (i.e. no CC=buggy Tivo 4).


That's what I was afraid of and bkdtv has effectively confirmed this as well.

I'm not in a hurry, I have two TiVo HD boxes. I will wait for a while and see how rapidly TiVo can develop this product before committing my dollars to it.

Thanks for the responses.


----------



## gothaggis

I can't believe how slow the menus are. Not sure what they were thinking when releasing this, since it clearly isn't ready for prime time yet.


----------



## matguy

This may well suck for me when ours shows up (ordered yesterday from tivo.com.) Not that I'll freak out about the bugs, my wife on the other hand, well I'll posibly be paying for it for a while. I mean, it'll take a while for Comcast to get an M-card for us, so that might stall it long enough for some updates, but ugh... [Fist Shake]


----------



## trip1eX

So do the new search features and categorization work under the old UI?


----------



## orangeboy

matguy said:


> This may well suck for me when ours shows up (ordered yesterday from tivo.com.) Not that I'll freak out about the bugs, my wife on the other hand, well I'll posibly be paying for it for a while. I mean, it'll take a while for Comcast to get an M-card for us, so that might stall it long enough for some updates, but ugh... [Fist Shake]


To keep the WAF, maybe just leave it in SD mode?


----------



## gweempose

orangeboy said:


> To keep the WAF, maybe just leave it in SD mode?


My thoughts exactly, at least until the new interface is ready for prime time.


----------



## AbMagFab

vansmack said:


> How long should I expect to be on the "Welcome! Starting up...." screen?
> 
> I'm going on 30 minutes with nothing other than that.


That's a bug (see my first post). You'll need to hard boot - unplug and replug. It should go to the second screen this time in about 1-2 minutes.


----------



## jfh3

AbMagFab said:


> That's a bug (see my first post). You'll need to hard boot - unplug and replug. It should go to the second screen this time in about 1-2 minutes.


Or just hit the Tivo button.


----------



## Noogie

I have been waiting patiently for the release and was quite dissapointed this week regarding the interface sluggishness when the reviews came out. There simply is no excuse to release a product with such a sluggish interface in this day and age. I'm not about to drop nearly $1700 on two Premiere XL's with lifetime service on the promise of "it will get fixed soon." 

I will just continue to wait until they fix the interface speed issue. My two Cox HD DVRs that I hate will have to do for now.

Edit: I see from the other thread regarding the HD UI:

"If you activate your TiVo&#174; Premiere before early April, you will only experience our standard-definition user interface. The new HD user interface will download through a software update to your Premiere in early April."

This gives me some hope that they'll have a version of the HD UI that caches data and isn't painfully slow soon enough. Waiting still sucks.


----------



## AbMagFab

jfh3 said:


> Or just hit the Tivo button.


Not when it's on the startup screen. That's a boot issue.


----------



## jfh3

AbMagFab said:


> Not when it's on the startup screen. That's a boot issue.


Sorry - you are correct. I was thinking after the final screen, not at the "Welcome" screen.


----------



## greensky

> This gives me some hope that they'll have a version of the HD UI that caches data and isn't painfully slow soon enough. Waiting still sucks.


Agreed. I'm mostly worried about the part where they mention stability issues with both cores enabled. I don't want to buy a Premier now on the promise they'll fix everything only to have them release a hardware fix in 6 months.


----------



## aaronwt

Stabilioty issues should just be problems with the code. They need to optimize it for two cores. I'm still looking forward to my eight units. The sooner I can sell my old units the better.


----------



## vansmack

AbMagFab said:


> Not when it's on the startup screen. That's a boot issue.


Yes it is, and it required a return of the device (according to TiVo customer support, after repeated hard reboots).

Fortunately for me, my Best Buy had one Premiere left.


----------



## bkdtv

AbMagFab said:


> the new UI is painfully slow, and the old UI is about the same.[/B]


You should find the classic UI more responsive after indexing is complete.


----------



## AbMagFab

vansmack said:


> Yes it is, and it required a return of the device (according to TiVo customer support).
> 
> Fortunately for me, my Best Buy had one Premiere left.


It's most likely the old soft-boot issue again with the EVVS drives. Doesn't really need a return though.


----------



## stevep927

Didn't Tivo announce that the new software won't be released for a week or so which perhaps would explain the lack of performance. By the way I knew the Tivo needed electricity so I have erected a 45 foot tower and am hoisting the windmill tomorrow with the anticipated arrival of my Tivo's this week. I have heard thru the grapevine (hint AG) that Tivo's perform much faster when you use GREEN energy. The green means it costs more. If I don't have any wind I also have installed solar panels on the roof for backup. If it's not sunny or windy I guess I will listen to the radio.


----------



## bkdtv

For those that didn't bother to read the FAQ stickied at the top of the forum, some changes for users of both the "classic" and HD UIs:



> *30 second scan*
> 
> On past TiVos, the ADVANCE (-->|) button toggled between the beginning and end of the program by default. If the user wanted that button to perform 30 second skip-a popular feature to skip commercials-they had to enter a special remote sequence: SELECT-PLAY-SELECT-3-0-SELECT.
> 
> The TiVo Premiere ships with a new 30 second "scan" function enabled by default on the ADVANCE (-->|) button. This feature is very similar to the 30 second "slip" on DirecTV's latest DVRs. It doesn't skip 30 seconds; instead, it fast forwards through a 30 second interval in one second (i.e. 30x speed). Pressing ADVANCE repeatedly queues added time. If you hit the ADVANCE button four times in a row, the DVR fast forwards through 120 seconds of programming (or commercials) in four seconds.
> 
> The traditional 30 second instant skip function is still available, and enabled with the same remote sequence. Simply enter SELECT-PLAY-SELECT-3-0-SELECT while viewing a recorded program.
> 
> *Trick play enhancements: Jump to beginning/end and skip-to-tick on live TV*
> 
> With the Premiere, pressing and holding the REPLAY button for one second jumps to the beginning of the recording or the beginning of the live TV buffer. Pressing and holding the ADVANCE button for one second jumps to the end of the recording or the end of the live TV buffer (i.e. live TV).
> 
> Users can also jump backward in 15 minute increments on both live TV and recordings by pressing the REPLAY button while rewinding. Pressing ADVANCE while fast forwarding will jump forward in 15 minute increments. This works on both recordings and live TV.
> 
> *Output modes, auto-detection of supported formats, 1080p24*
> 
> With the Premiere, TiVo did away with its native, hybrid, and fixed output modes in favor of a more elegant implementation. The Premiere lists each output format - 1080p24, 1080i, 720p, 480p, and 480i-and asks the user to place a checkmark next to those they want to output natively without processing. If the user only checks 1080i, then all other formats are converted to 1080i. If the user checks 480i and 720p, then 480i channels are output as 480i, while all other formats are converted to 720p. If the user checks 720p and 1080i, then 720p and 1080i content is output natively, while other formats are converted to 1080i.
> 
> For those that don't know what their TV can do, the TiVo Premiere adds an auto-detect feature to determine all supported output modes. The user can then customize as desired.
> 
> *Increased menu timeout*
> 
> Under previous versions of the TiVo software, the DVR would revert to live TV after five minutes of user inactivity on any menu. With the Premiere, TiVo increased that timeout to 15 minutes. This change will also apply to the HDUI when it is released.
> 
> *Increase in default "keep until" period for new recordings*
> 
> The TiVo Premiere protects all new recordings for three days, up from two days (48 hours) under previous versions of the TiVo software.


Trickplay behavior with 30sec skip enabled is erratic. When initially enabled with the SELECT-PLAY-SELECT-3-0-SELECT code, 30sec skip replaces 30sec scan and you maintain access to the other trickplay enhancements, including the ability to press-and-hold REPLAY and SKIP to jump to the beginning and end of recordings.

Once you reboot the TiVo, you retain 30sec skip *but lose access to the new trickplay functions*, and you're stuck with same behavior on the TiVoHD/Series3. To restore the press-and-hold functions, you have to re-enable 30-second scan through the Settings -> Remote, CableCard, & Devices -> Remote Setup, and then re-enable 30-second skip.

It is not clear whether this is a bug, or whether TiVo simply does not want users of 30sec skip to have access to the new and improved trickplay functions. If the latter, that would be unfortunate.


----------



## slowbiscuit

bkdtv said:


> Under previous versions of the TiVo software, the DVR would revert to live TV after five minutes of user inactivity on any menu. With the Premiere, TiVo increased that timeout to 15 minutes. This change will also apply to the HDUI when it is released.


I still don't understand why they don't have a simple screensaver option, and why this timeout is not configurable. They could even pitch ads using it, just like Replays used to do.


----------



## aaronwt

I hate screen savers in devices. The first thing I do is turn them off. I'm not worried about burnin with my DLP and LCD sets.

For me it really doesn't matter what the time is. It could be 5 or 50 minutes. if I'm not in front of it I'm not using the TiVo.


----------



## AbMagFab

aaronwt said:


> I hate screen savers in devices. The first thing I do is turn them off. I'm not worried about burnin with my DLP and LCD sets.


Short of CRTs and some old plasmas, burn-in has been a non-issue for any TV for years.


----------



## mamosley

Ok, got my premiere connected yesterday. After the innitial set up the first thing I look for was the hd u.i. it was not enabled on my box. I had it connect again, It took almost 3 hours to apply the downloads from the first connection. My guess it only downloaded guide data because the verision number did not change and I did not get the option to turn on the hd u.i. Running it on the standard u.i. the interface absolutely flies compared to my tivo hds. I didnt have any of the set up issues that many appear to be having. So I'll count my self fortunate so far to have no disaapointments. We'll see if that changes when I get a chance to use the hd u.i.


----------



## grapeape

y2flyy said:


> I was the first to pick one up a BB
> I get home and much to my expectation, I'm disappointed
> 
> I had NO IDEA this stupid thing needed a freaking cable card. That sucks!
> I'm sure my cable company doesn't provide them
> 
> I know you're probably saying that I'm the idiot for not knowing.
> But I've been reading on this thing and anticipated it for months, no where did I see it say a cablecard is required
> 
> Secondly I could fly to the moon faster than this thing takes to load up. Its already been any hour and i got another message "service update this may take up to an hour, possible longer"
> LOL it takes 2 hours to setup a freaking DVR!
> 
> MOxi why? why didnt I buy you instead!


You sure AbMagFab wasn't first.


----------



## comma splice

grapeape said:


> You sure AbMagFab wasn't first.


He probably just means his local Best Buy. Not all Best Buys nationwide.


----------



## aaronwt

bkdtv said:


> For those that didn't bother to read the FAQ stickied at the top of the forum, some changes for users of both the "classic" and HD UIs:
> 
> Trickplay behavior with 30sec skip enabled is erratic. When initially enabled with the SELECT-PLAY-SELECT-3-0-SELECT code, 30sec skip replaces 30sec scan and you maintain access to the other trickplay enhancements, including the ability to press-and-hold REPLAY and SKIP to jump to the beginning and end of recordings.
> 
> Once you reboot the TiVo, you retain 30sec skip *but lose access to the new trickplay functions*, and you're stuck with same behavior on the TiVoHD/Series3. To restore the press-and-hold functions, you have to re-enable 30-second scan through the Settings -> Remote, CableCard, & Devices -> Remote Setup, and then re-enable 30-second skip.
> 
> It is not clear whether this is a bug, or whether TiVo simply does not want users of 30sec skip to have access to the new and improved trickplay functions. If the latter, that would be unfortunate.


How much longer does the 30 sec. scan take than the 30 sec. skip?


----------



## comma splice

It looks like nobody is "supposed" to have the HD user interface yet, according to a representative at TiVo.

Here's the conversation:



> [me]: I've been reading on the TiVo Community message boards that people who got theirs yesterday at Best Buy don't have the HD user interface.
> [me]: Do you know if the ones shipping from TiVo will have the new interface?
> *Chad*: Nobody has the HDUI until we officially start shipping our units.
> *Chad*: The HDUI is provided as a software update, which I assume is being released today.
> [me]: Oh, OK. Thank you!


So could that mean that those who are seeing the HD user interface got it mistakenly?


----------



## b_scott

y2flyy said:


> I'm been trolling these forums since the announcement of premiere and been on the tivo site....I never saw that a cablecard is required


you've been a member on these forums since 2006 and didn't know any HD Tivo requires cablecards. ok.


----------



## aaronwt

y2flyy said:


> I'm been trolling these forums since the announcement of premiere and been on the tivo site....I never saw that a cablecard is required


It isn't. I have five boxes receiving OTA content and they are working just fine without any cable cards. Although the four connected to FiOS have cable cards.


----------



## AbMagFab

aaronwt said:


> It isn't. I have five boxes receiving OTA content and they are working just fine without any cable cards. Although the four connected to FiOS have cable cards.


Did you get a special MSD deal, or are you paying more for box #7?


----------



## aaronwt

AbMagFab said:


> Did you get a special MSD deal, or are you paying more for box #7?


six are lifetime(four were converted to lifetime after the $6.95 a month cost) and three are still on the $6.95 a month plan which two of my Premieres will take over.

So even with six on lifetime, if I go to the change subscription for the monthly boxes it still shows up as $299 for Lifetime service.


----------



## AbMagFab

Well, FIOS came, and I got my MCARD.

BUT - only one tuner works. The other tuner won't tune anything in.

Anyone experience this before? I didn't think this was possible. I went through a full guided setup again, made no difference.


----------



## BlackBetty

aaronwt said:


> six are lifetime(four were converted to lifetime after the $6.95 a month cost) and three are still on the $6.95 a month plan which two of my Premieres will take over.
> 
> So even with six on lifetime, if I go to the change subscription for the monthly boxes it still shows up as $299 for Lifetime service.


Can you please explain to me why on earth you need 8 TiVo boxes?


----------



## jmpage2

AbMagFab said:


> Well, FIOS came, and I got my MCARD.
> 
> BUT - only one tuner works. The other tuner won't tune anything in.
> 
> Anyone experience this before? I didn't think this was possible. I went through a full guided setup again, made no difference.


It sounds an awful lot like you got an S-Card.


----------



## AbMagFab

jmpage2 said:


> It sounds an awful lot like you got an S-Card.


A) The Premiere only supports MCARDS
B) It clearly says MCARD when inserted

Anyone seen this behavior before?


----------



## BlackBetty

AbMagFab said:


> A) The Premiere only supports MCARDS
> B) It clearly says MCARD when inserted
> 
> Anyone seen this behavior before?


sounds like you got a faulty MCard. Why didn't you test it out when the FIOS guy was there?


----------



## AbMagFab

BlackBetty said:


> sounds like you got a faulty MCard. Why didn't you test it out when the FIOS guy was there?


I did, but I wasn't going to make him wait the 60+ minutes to go through another guided setup, especially when one tuner was working fine.

It's an MCARD, so one tuner = multiple tuners.

I'm thinking this is a faulty Tivo box actually. I've got another MCARD in another Tivo HD, and I'll test this one in a Tivo HD to confirm.

Have you actually seen a faulty MCARD exhibit this behavior, or are you just making an assumption?


----------



## AbMagFab

Well, popped the MCARD into the Tivo HD that this Premiere was sitting next to, and it worked perfectly.

*So, on top of everything else, this Premiere has only one working tuner in it. Nice. That confirms the overall cheap feel to this thing.*

I think I'm just going to return this thing and wait until it's actually a viable product. Maybe I should take my own advice?


----------



## comma splice

AbMagFab said:


> Well, popped the MCARD into the Tivo HD that this Premiere was sitting next to, and it worked perfectly.
> 
> *So, on top of everything else, this Premiere has only one working tuner in it. Nice. That confirms the overall cheap feel to this thing.*
> 
> I think I'm just going to return this thing and wait until it's actually a viable product. Maybe I should take my own advice?


Sorry for your bad experience. I'm sure that because the unit you got only had working tuner, everyone else's will too.


----------



## Richard Cranium

AbMagFab said:


> Well, popped the MCARD into the Tivo HD that this Premiere was sitting next to, and it worked perfectly.
> 
> *So, on top of everything else, this Premiere has only one working tuner in it. Nice. That confirms the overall cheap feel to this thing.*
> 
> I think I'm just going to return this thing and wait until it's actually a viable product. Maybe I should take my own advice?


I don't want to start a flame war, but after reading your last couple of posts I just want to point out that you've been looking for something to complain about so you can return it.

I'm Glad you finally found it.


----------



## BlackBetty

E. Norma Stitz said:


> I don't want to start a flame war, but after reading your last couple of posts I just want to point out that you've been looking for something to complain about so you can return it.
> 
> I'm Glad you finally found it.


+1. I agree 100%. He starts off his original (has since been edited) first post by describing the product as cheesy twice. This guy was just looking for any reason at all to return it. I hope TiVo figures out he opened up the box and denies his return. lol


----------



## bkdtv

AbMagFab said:


> Well, popped the MCARD into the Tivo HD that this Premiere was sitting next to, and it worked perfectly.
> 
> *So, on top of everything else, this Premiere has only one working tuner in it. Nice. That confirms the overall cheap feel to this thing.*
> 
> I think I'm just going to return this thing and wait until it's actually a viable product. Maybe I should take my own advice?


Did you try re-running guided setup with the M-CARD installed?


----------



## ldobson

AbMagFab said:


> Well, popped the MCARD into the Tivo HD that this Premiere was sitting next to, and it worked perfectly.
> 
> *So, on top of everything else, this Premiere has only one working tuner in it. Nice. That confirms the overall cheap feel to this thing.*
> 
> I think I'm just going to return this thing and wait until it's actually a viable product. Maybe I should take my own advice?


No really you only need the one, you wont have time to watch programming from both tuners as you have to spend every other minute complaining here!


----------



## comma splice

E. Norma Stitz said:


> I don't want to start a flame war, but after reading your last couple of posts I just want to point out that you've been looking for something to complain about so you can return it.
> 
> I'm Glad you finally found it.


Good point. Just consider that he started his initial post with "Cons" first, and then "Pros."

It's fine for your cons to outnumber your pros, but ordering them like that is something only a pessimist would do!


----------



## emerz

BlackBetty said:


> I hope TiVo figures out he opened up the box and denies his return. lol


----------



## bkdtv

A tip for new Premiere owners...Grab the latest version of kmttg to download recorded files.

For now, kmttg is the only program that can take advantage of the new, faster TS downloads on the TiVo Premiere. It's not clear when TiVo will add that capability to TiVo Desktop. Here's a Youtube video showing the program in action.

Note: If you previously installed a version of kmttg, be sure to check "Download TiVo files in Transport Stream format" under File -> Configure -> Program Options.


----------



## scummybear

I wish I had mine already.


----------



## b_scott

AbMagFab said:


> Well, FIOS came, and I got my MCARD.
> 
> BUT - only one tuner works. The other tuner won't tune anything in.
> 
> Anyone experience this before? I didn't think this was possible. I went through a full guided setup again, made no difference.


had that issue before, I think. The card wasn't paired correctly. Eventually they got it working. (Comcast)


----------



## AbMagFab

Friends, I've been a Tivo fan since most of you were nipping at your mama's ankles. I would love nothing more than for Tivo to succeed.

But since the announcement of this thing, most (objective) people have been concerned that maybe Tivo blew it. I sure was hoping they didn't, but it appears they did.

The device is cheesy. It will be very interesting to see how many people have DOA-type situations with this first-run batch.

The UI is awful. There's no getting around that. And it's the primary selling point.

Support for one MCARD and MCARD only is an odd, and annoying reduction in functionality.

This box is a junker right now. There's absolutely no reason to upgrade to it if you have Series 3 boxes already. And if you don't, you'd be better off waiting, or getting a Tivo HD if you can find one.

It's nice to finally see the Tivo fanboy base coming out after the last few weeks, but you might want to wait until it's a little more founded. Unless you have a Premiere and can say it's great (which would be shocking), you might want to hold off commenting.


----------



## AbMagFab

comma said:


> Good point. Just consider that he started his initial post with "Cons" first, and then "Pros."
> 
> It's fine for your cons to outnumber your pros, but ordering them like that is something only a pessimist would do!


That's because there aren't any pros to speak of. I've reordered them if that somehow is creating a perception issue.


----------



## AbMagFab

BlackBetty said:


> +1. I agree 100%. He starts off his original (has since been edited) first post by describing the product as cheesy twice. This guy was just looking for any reason at all to return it. I hope TiVo figures out he opened up the box and denies his return. lol


Do you have one? If not, wait until you do. The thing is really cheesy - the box, the manufacturing, the remote, everything. I stated it twice because I was really surprised given the history of Tivo boxes and remotes.

Heck, my Series 3's feel rock solid, and even the Tivo HDs are reasonable. This Premiere is like a cheap plastic immitation.


----------



## Arcady

Now I don't feel so bad that I put lifetime on a TiVo HD box just days before this new thing was announced. Hopefully they'll release a high-end unit again sometime in the future. I'd be happy with a Series3 that could use an M-Card and had 4 tuners.


----------



## AbMagFab

Okay, got a replacement. Both tuners work fine now. All the other issues remain, including the severe speed issues with the couple of new UI screens, and overall general bugginess.


----------



## MickeS

Now I feel like going to Best Buy and buying one just to see what I think of it. It just can't be as bad as the OP says.... I hope.


----------



## comma splice

AbMagFab said:


> Friends, I've been a Tivo fan since most of you were nipping at your mama's ankles.


Impossible! TiVo has only been around since 1999! HA!


----------



## jmpage2

Well, even the demo I saw running on the Premiere at my local BB was a bit of a joke. Three minute long hard sell on the product and all the wonderful things it could do but everything was couched in extremely vague language and virtually ZERO screen shots demonstrating the functionality they want.

Even if the interface isn't done they should have a solid roadmap at this point as well as mock up screens that are representative of where the product will be in a short period of time. 

I felt like I was watching an infomercial. They also locked the unit out so you couldn't see the menus at all or demo it in any way. They should have at least created an interactive demo of sorts that would show off some of the UI elements.

All in all this is a solid pass for me until TiVo demonstrates they can get their act together and deliver on the potential here. 

I like my TiVo boxes a bunch and had plunked down for pre-orders on new Premiere's but I have cancelled them. I will give this a while and see what TiVo is capable of doing in the near future. I'm also interested to see what competitors are able to do now that TiVo has shown their hand with this box in its current (somewhat lacking) state.


----------



## bkdtv

AbMagFab said:


> Do you have one? If not, wait until you do.


I've had one for a few weeks.

*Advantages*

 More responsive classic interface (after indexing is complete)
 Slightly more responsive trickplay functions
 Enhanced "press and hold" trickplay functions
 Superior multi-room throughput
 Superior TiVoToGo throughput
 Superior TTCB (PC->TiVo) throughput
 Superior PC streaming throughput with Streambaby
 Better video output options with support for full 1080p24 output
 Increased menu timeout from 5 minutes to 15 minutes
 Increase in default "keep until" period from 2 days to 3 days
 New channel logos in classic's Now Playing list
 Better SD/HD scaling
 Better digital SD picture quality
 Better analog SD picture quality and no "gray screen" issue like TiVo HD
 More robust video decoders-- able to decode 35+Mbps MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 video, up from ~25Mbps on the TivoHD and Series3
 More robust audio decoders -- now reliably decodes 640Kbps DD

 Hardware supports more A/V formats, including 1080p DIVX and Windows Media Professional audio (software doesn't, yet)
 ENERGY STAR certified with ~35% less power consumption than TiVoHD, ~40% less than Series3
 Internal drive runs quieter than TiVo HD and Series3
 Runs cooler -- 29-31C
 All black enclosure that matches latest equipment
 HDMI 1.3; better HDMI compatibility
Future plans/potential as described by TiVo (ex: enhanced Flash versions of major HME applications; third-party and end-user Flash applications)

*Disadvantages*

Some bugs.
Can't backup or expand drive with current tools.
No phone line jack built-in for those without cable/dsl broadband.
No OLED screen like Series3.

The box has a "less beefy" power supply and less heft thanks to reduced power requirements. I don't know that I would necessarily call that a disadvantage.

*Disappointments*

 No third-tuner. All M-CARDs support six tuners. Yes, I realize Cisco SDV tuning adapters only support two tuners.
 HD UI is incomplete.
 HD UI is too slow for day-to-day use in its _current_ state.
 Same HME applications available at launch (enhanced Flash versions not ready).
 No multi-room streaming with DTCP-IP to support protected content.
 No DLNA client support.
 No built-in wireless 802.11n or built-in MoCA.
 No keyboard remote at launch.
 No new record options, save for Browse TV category subscriptions.
 No elimination of 1.1GB buffer limit in Streambaby (i.e. no response to author's request for assistance to eliminate issue).
 Only works with My DVR Expander external drive like TivoHD (doesn't allow use of other drives like Moxi, older Series3, DirecTV DVRs, and growing number of cable DVRs)
 No new version of TiVo Desktop with MPEG-TS download support.


----------



## nrc

jmpage2 said:


> I felt like I was watching an infomercial.


Um. You were.

TiVo's biggest problem is that people don't understand what benefits it provides over a plain vanilla cable company DVR. I think its good that they're running an infomercial to explain those things, but I agree that it would be better if you could temporarily break out and actually try things out for yourself.


----------



## mamosley

bkdtv said:


> I've had one for a few weeks.
> 
> *Advantages*
> 
> Better digital SD picture quality
> Better analog SD picture quality and no "gray screen" issue like TiVo HD


I hadn't payed attention to the sd video quality until Top Gear started recording. With my tivo hd I would watch it on my apple tv subscription even though I have season pass set up. Fios doesnt have bbchd (I would complain more about it but I know where my bread is buttered) and the sd version was just blech. Now its actually watchable.

Yeah the hd ui is not complete and sluggish but I guess the sluggishness is not bothering me as much as it seems to borrow others.


----------



## innocentfreak

bkdtv said:


> I've had one for a few weeks.
> 
> *Advantages*
> 
> *Disadvantages*
> 
> *Disappointments*


I think my issue is how quickly the disappointments outweigh the advantages for me. Yeah I am keeping my order and have no plans on canceling. Still it just kind of makes you question who TiVo is talking to or listening to when planning these new units. Hopefully they will update their new feature survey once the rollout is complete.

I got that bit of excitement for them running down the advantages. The disadvantages other than the OLED aren't huge to me, but then I felt that big letdown I felt when they made the announcement when I read the disappointments. At some point it becomes very tough to defend TiVo or recommend it to people and I think some of us are there now.


----------



## AbMagFab

bkdtv said:


> I've had one for a few weeks.
> 
> *Advantages*
> 
> More responsive classic interface (after indexing is complete)
> Slightly more responsive trickplay functions
> Enhanced "press and hold" trickplay functions
> Superior multi-room throughput
> Superior TiVoToGo throughput
> Superior TTCB (PC->TiVo) throughput
> Superior PC streaming throughput with Streambaby
> Better video output options with support for full 1080p24 output
> Increased menu timeout from 5 minutes to 15 minutes
> Increase in default "keep until" period from 2 days to 3 days
> New channel logos in classic's Now Playing list
> Better SD/HD scaling
> Better digital SD picture quality
> Better analog SD picture quality and no "gray screen" issue like TiVo HD
> More robust video decoders-- able to decode 35+Mbps MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 video, up from ~25Mbps on the TivoHD and Series3
> More robust audio decoders -- now reliably decodes 640Kbps DD
> 
> Hardware supports more A/V formats, including 1080p DIVX and Windows Media Professional audio (software doesn't, yet)
> ENERGY STAR certified with ~35% less power consumption than TiVoHD, ~40% less than Series3
> Internal drive runs quieter than TiVo HD and Series3
> Runs cooler -- 29-31C
> All black enclosure that matches latest equipment
> HDMI 1.3; better HDMI compatibility
> Future plans/potential as described by TiVo (ex: enhanced Flash versions of major HME applications; third-party and end-user Flash applications)


Let's distill that first set down, as you're being a little redundant and generous with advantages based on theoretical future use, and many are very subjective (and I'm not sure I even agree):

*Advantages*

 More responsive classic interface (after indexing is complete) - *not sure what you mean here, as my S2 and THDs are equally responsive; and Season Pass reordering is just as painfully slow*
 Slightly more responsive trickplay functions - *unmeasurable*
 Enhanced "press and hold" trickplay functions - *not if you want 30-sec skip instead of the weird 30-sec advance*
 Superior throughput - *perhaps, waiting for indexing to complete before thorough testing, but on my wired network so far, it's the same as my S3's*
 *A bunch of minor configuation tweaks *- Increased menu timeout from 5 minutes to 15 minutes; Increase in default "keep until" period from 2 days to 3 days; New channel logos in classic's Now Playing list
 Internal drive runs quieter than TiVo HD and Series3 - *not sure what you're running, but they're all silent*

 Better SD/HD scaling; Better digital SD picture quality; Better analog SD picture quality and no "gray screen" issue like TiVo HD - gray *screen fixed with most recent 11.x release anyway; the rest is useless with all but the oldest of TVs*
 ENERGY STAR certified with ~35% less power consumption than TiVoHD, ~40% less than Series3

*And the pack of "spec" features, that are useless for now as they are only in theory, and unusable with the current software - I think most of us have learned by now to only buy a CE device on what it can do *now*, not what it promises us it might do in the future:*
- Better video output options with support for full 1080p24 output - *useless for now, unless I missed a source of 1080p24 material for this device?*
- More robust video decoders-- able to decode 35+Mbps MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 video, up from ~25Mbps on the TivoHD and Series3
- More robust audio decoders -- now reliably decodes 640Kbps DD
- Hardware supports more A/V formats, including 1080p DIVX and Windows Media Professional audio (software doesn't, yet)
[*] HDMI 1.3; better HDMI compatibility
[*]Future plans/potential as described by TiVo (ex: enhanced Flash versions of major HME applications; third-party and end-user Flash applications)[/list]


----------



## b_scott

I'll never understand the need for some people to have their HT equipment be heavy and bulky. There are no moving parts, smaller and lighter are better. It fits more places. Stuff like this does not need heft.


----------



## riekl

b_scott said:


> I'll never understand the need for some people to have their HT equipment be heavy and bulky. There are no moving parts, smaller and lighter are better. It fits more places. Stuff like this does not need heft.


There are no moving parts in a Tivo ? Are you sure about that 

'Heavy and bulky' is not what people are talking about. They are talking about it NOT feeling like my 3 year old's latest throw away toy. There is no question Tivo went el cheapo on the case and construction of this unit, the components may be ok (and i say may with a big MAY) but the build quality is crap.


----------



## vansmack

They'll slap "green" on the case in no time and people will start to rave about it.


----------



## riekl

vansmack said:


> They'll slap "green" on the case in no time and people will start to rave about it.


In San Fran maybe  In the rest of the country, environmentalism is pretty much dead.


----------



## jmpage2

riekl said:


> In San Fran maybe  In the rest of the country, environmentalism is pretty much dead.


Eh, that's really not true.

Getting power consumption down on consumer electronics is a good thing, unless you want to keep paying higher and higher energy rates for all the new electric plants they have to build to meet exploding demand.


----------



## AbMagFab

jmpage2 said:


> Eh, that's really not true.
> 
> Getting power consumption down on consumer electronics is a good thing, unless you want to keep paying higher and higher energy rates for all the new electric plants they have to build to meet exploding demand.


We just need everyone to replace their old CRT TVs with new 3D LCD TVs, then we're set!

(Oh yeah, something else the Tivo Premiere can never support thanks to the HDMI 1.3 chip in it - 3D TV of any form...)


----------



## bkdtv

AbMagFab said:


> *not sure what you mean here, as my S2 and THDs are equally responsive; and Season Pass reordering is just as painfully slow*[*]


In all due respect, I don't think you've had enough experience (post-indexing) to effectively judge responsiveness.

Season pass re-ordering is still slow because the classic UI uses a single core. The Premiere might cut 5 seconds off a 30 second re-order.



AbMagFab said:


> Enhanced "press and hold" trickplay functions - *not if you want 30-sec skip instead of the weird 30-sec advance*


You can take advantage of both. Enabling 30sec skip with SPS30S does not disable the "press and hold" functions until you reboot. It's not clear to me whether the disabling of those functions upon reboot is the intended behavior; that behavior did not occur under my previous software.



AbMagFab said:


> [*] Superior throughput - *perhaps, waiting for indexing to complete before thorough testing, but on my wired network so far, it's the same as my S3's*


When transferring to the Series3 and THDs, you will be limited by those units.

After indexing is complete, test TiVoToGo using the latest version of kmttg. The current version of TiVo Desktop cannot take advantage of the new, faster TS downloads.



AbMagFab said:


> *A bunch of minor configuation tweaks *- Increased menu timeout from 5 minutes to 15 minutes; Increase in default "keep until" period from 2 days to 3 days; New channel logos in classic's Now Playing list


They are minor tweaks, but improvements nonetheless. The new logos look much better than the old ones, imo.



AbMagFab said:


> Internal drive runs quieter than TiVo HD and Series3 - *not sure what you're running, but they're all silent*


In an entertainment center, you won't notice a difference. But those with TiVos in a smaller bedroom may.



AbMagFab said:


> Better SD/HD scaling; Better digital SD picture quality; Better analog SD picture quality and no "gray screen" issue like TiVo HD - gray *screen fixed with most recent 11.x release anyway; the rest is useless with all but the oldest of TVs*


This has nothing to do with new vs. old TVs. If you output all channels at fixed resolutions (ex: SD channels at 1080i), then you are using the scaling circuitry in the TiVo, not the TV.

If the gray screen issue is fixed, that is good news. I hadn't heard that. The Premiere still has better NTSC decoders and encoders to produce better quality on analog channels.



AbMagFab said:


> - Better video output options with support for full 1080p24 output - *useless for now, unless I missed a source of 1080p24 material for this device?*


PC videos, such as Blu-ray rips, are 1080p24.

At some point, hopefully TiVo will add support for 1080p24 from Vudu and Cinema Now.



AbMagFab said:


> More robust video decoders-- able to decode 35+Mbps MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 video, up from ~25Mbps on the TivoHD and Series3
> 
> More robust audio decoders -- now reliably decodes 640Kbps DD


Such higher bitrates are used by Blu-ray disks and Blu-ray backups.


----------



## RoyK

bkdtv said:


> I've had one for a few weeks.
> 
> *Advantages*
> 
> More responsive classic interface (after indexing is complete)
> Slightly more responsive trickplay functions
> Enhanced "press and hold" trickplay functions
> Superior multi-room throughput
> Superior TiVoToGo throughput
> Superior TTCB (PC->TiVo) throughput
> Superior PC streaming throughput with Streambaby
> Better video output options with support for full 1080p24 output
> Increased menu timeout from 5 minutes to 15 minutes
> Increase in default "keep until" period from 2 days to 3 days
> New channel logos in classic's Now Playing list
> Better SD/HD scaling
> Better digital SD picture quality
> Better analog SD picture quality and no "gray screen" issue like TiVo HD
> More robust video decoders-- able to decode 35+Mbps MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 video, up from ~25Mbps on the TivoHD and Series3
> More robust audio decoders -- now reliably decodes 640Kbps DD
> 
> Hardware supports more A/V formats, including 1080p DIVX and Windows Media Professional audio (software doesn't, yet)
> ENERGY STAR certified with ~35% less power consumption than TiVoHD, ~40% less than Series3
> Internal drive runs quieter than TiVo HD and Series3
> Runs cooler -- 29-31C
> All black enclosure that matches latest equipment
> HDMI 1.3; better HDMI compatibility
> Future plans/potential as described by TiVo (ex: enhanced Flash versions of major HME applications; third-party and end-user Flash applications)
> 
> *Disadvantages*
> 
> Some bugs.
> ...


What is that saying about how many ataboys one aww s**t can cancel out?


----------



## AbMagFab

bkdtv said:


> This has nothing to do with new vs. old TVs. If you output all channels at fixed resolutions (ex: SD channels at 1080i), then you are using the scaling circuitry in the TiVo, not the TV.


Agreed. I figured most people were using "Native" nowadays as the TVs are generally better than Tivo at scaling, and they end up scaling again anyway, so do it just once.



> PC videos, such as Blu-ray rips, are 1080p24. Such higher bitrates are used by Blu-ray disks and Blu-ray backups. The same goes for the Dolby Digital tracks.


Can I get those onto the Premiere without having to recode them? pyTivo won't do it, at least the last version I last downloaded.[/QUOTE]


----------



## bkdtv

AbMagFab said:


> Can I get those onto the Premiere without having to recode them? pyTivo won't do it, at least the last version I last downloaded.


Yes. You can "push" 1080p MP4 files with DD using pyTiVo's web interface. You can also "pull" 1080p MPG files with DD from the NPL.


----------



## AbMagFab

bkdtv said:


> Yes. You can "push" 1080p MP4 files with DD using pyTiVo's web interface. You can also "pull" 1080p MPG files with DD from the NPL.


Where would a 1080p MPG originate from on the Tivo (if I didn't push it)?

And I know I can push them, but pyTivo transcodes them - at least any normal 1080p24 BluRay type of file, including HD camcorder files. Everything I've ever tried has been transcoded.


----------



## orangeboy

AbMagFab said:


> Where would a 1080p MPG originate from on the Tivo (if I didn't push it)?
> 
> And I know I can push them, but pyTivo transcodes them - at least any normal 1080p24 BluRay type of file, including HD camcorder files. Everything I've ever tried has been transcoded.


I push BluRay rips to my original _S3_* with no transcoding, and have been for awhile now. Check out the TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo forum from time to time - and check the Video Compatibility chart found here: http://code.google.com/p/streambaby/wiki/video_compatibility

*I'm looking forward to the Premiere for better playback of said BluRay rips...


----------



## innocentfreak

I will really need to look into pushing and pulling files with the new transfer speeds. These days I just watch my rips through Media Center, but if I can push/pull them quick enough I would rather do that since I prefer the playback controls on my TiVo.


----------



## nrc

riekl said:


> There are no moving parts in a Tivo ? Are you sure about that
> 
> 'Heavy and bulky' is not what people are talking about. They are talking about it NOT feeling like my 3 year old's latest throw away toy. There is no question Tivo went el cheapo on the case and construction of this unit, the components may be ok (and i say may with a big MAY) but the build quality is crap.


From the interior pictures it looks pretty well put together. The case appears to be lighter gauge metal, but there's no reason they needed to continue with a heavier case when everything else was shrunk down. At least it doesn't have obvious reworks done by hand like my original TiVo. 

As for looking cheesy: every single TiVo branded DVR except the S3 has looked cheesy.


----------



## joy_division

Unseen Llama said:


> I love the message I'm at during setup... "Preparing the service update...This may take up to an hour, possibly longer."


I always laugh when I see a statement like this. This is the same as saying "it will take up to 1 minute or longer" or "it will take up to 10 years or longer." It pretty much covers all time.

It's like "Expect up to 8 inches or more." What the hell does that means? The only thing it doesn't cover is negative amounts.


----------



## wmcbrine

AbMagFab said:


> I figured most people were using "Native" nowadays


I can't speak for most people, but for me: no way. Native means a slow resync process every time you change to a different resolution.



> _Can I get those onto the Premiere without having to recode them? pyTivo won't do it, at least the last version I last downloaded._


I just ordered a Premiere to test with...


----------



## sghrush

wmcbrine said:


> I can't speak for most people, but for me: no way. Native means a slow resync process every time you change to a different resolution.
> 
> I just ordered a Premiere to test with...


Because I have a Pioneer Kuro, I just use native because the pic looks so much better having the Kuro scale it once.


----------



## b_scott

riekl said:


> There are no moving parts in a Tivo ? Are you sure about that
> 
> 'Heavy and bulky' is not what people are talking about. They are talking about it NOT feeling like my 3 year old's latest throw away toy. There is no question Tivo went el cheapo on the case and construction of this unit, the components may be ok (and i say may with a big MAY) but the build quality is crap.


there's a fan. there's a hard drive which doesn't count as a moving part in a normal sense - it's enclosed.

If you don't need extra weight, why put it in there? Things are getting more complex and smaller at the same time.


----------



## gweempose

Since these new boxes have HDMI 1.3, is it possible for them to bitstream Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio?


----------



## b_scott

gweempose said:


> Since these new boxes have HDMI 1.3, is it possible for them to bitstream Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio?


I'm sure they COULD - but TV won't be sending that signal, so I don't see the point. And Netflix only does stereo. It'll do 5.1 in the future, and Amazon does too - but I don't see streaming TrueHD


----------



## mr1581

Interestingly enough, I had no problems setting up the new box. It didn't take very long to get everything loaded up, although it took almost an hour on comcast's side to get the cablecard repaired to the box. And I have the hdui.


----------



## skiguy32

ldobson said:


> No. The unit will function fine and will record all your analog channels.


I was wondering this same thing about the series 3 tivos. I just ordered one from woot Saturday night so I'm still waiting on it but I also only subscribe to analog cable so does this apply to the S3's too (only need a cable card for digital cable)?


----------



## gweempose

skiguy32 said:


> ... so does this apply to the S3's too (only need a cable card for digital cable)?


Yes. If you are using the TiVo with only analog cable and OTA, a cablecard is not necessary.


----------



## MickeS

nrc said:


> Um. You were.
> 
> TiVo's biggest problem is that people don't understand what benefits it provides over a plain vanilla cable company DVR. I think its good that they're running an infomercial to explain those things, but I agree that it would be better if you could temporarily break out and actually try things out for yourself.


If they actually HAD a good UI for anything other than recording TV, they could just do a UI only ad like Apple for the iPhone. Let's say they had a neat interface for how to transfer a show to a PC or an iPod, or a nice way to display content on your PC on the TiVo.

Of course, it can't be done since what they actually HAVE, while useful to me and others, looks old and cobbled together from spare UI parts, and wouldn't make anyone want to buy it only for that.


----------



## AbMagFab

Update - after I registered the box, and the service call last night, *the new HD UI is completely gone! *There is no setting to turn it back on, and it just went away, even though it was configured to have it last night.

Under System Information, it says "HDUI Available: No"

*I'm not sure if this is a smart move by Tivo or not. *If they will (very shortly) release a blazing fast HD UI with more than a couple screens, then this is a good move. If they're just going to turn the same junk couple of screens on in a couple of days, this was a dumb move.

Anyway, we'll have to see - *anyone else get the HD UI disabled after having it briefly, or not get it at all?*


----------



## AbMagFab

orangeboy said:


> I push BluRay rips to my original _S3_* with no transcoding, and have been for awhile now. Check out the TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo forum from time to time - and check the Video Compatibility chart found here: http://code.google.com/p/streambaby/wiki/video_compatibility
> 
> *I'm looking forward to the Premiere for better playback of said BluRay rips...


It is absolutely transcoding if you're talking a straight BluRay rip. The current Tivo is not capable of playing back those formats - just the audio alone makes them incompatible. Unless you're transcoding your rip at rip time (which is not what you said, and means it's being transcoded anyway).


----------



## brasscat

AbMagFab said:


> Update - after I registered the box, and the service call last night, *the new HD UI is completely gone! ...*


*

They're probably pissed at your constant insults of their latest child! (jk!)

Changing the subject for a moment from their (arguably) horrible new UI ...

Engadget talked about how they didn't like the new remotes. Can anyone comment on that? How are those new remotes?*


----------



## AbMagFab

brasscat said:


> They're probably pissed at your constant insults of their latest child! (jk!)
> 
> Changing the subject for a moment from their (arguably) horrible new UI ...
> 
> Engadget talked about how they didn't like the new remotes. Can anyone comment on that? How are those new remotes?


I did in the beginning I thought - just like the new box, it just feels cheesy. I don't know what they did, since the shape is the same, but it feels like a somewhat fragile disposable remote now.


----------



## AbMagFab

nrc said:


> From the interior pictures it looks pretty well put together. The case appears to be lighter gauge metal, but there's no reason they needed to continue with a heavier case when everything else was shrunk down. At least it doesn't have obvious reworks done by hand like my original TiVo.
> 
> As for looking cheesy: every single TiVo branded DVR except the S3 has looked cheesy.


Again, it's not about weight necessarily, it's about an overall cheapness factor and feeling to it. It just feels like it's fragile, like it's cheap.


----------



## ilkevinli

TivoPony posted in the "No HD UI with Premiere" thread that all boxes are suppose to have the HD UI enabled and that there was an error on the server side that turned it off for some boxes. You may want to check that thread and PM him.



AbMagFab said:


> Update - after I registered the box, and the service call last night, *the new HD UI is completely gone! *There is no setting to turn it back on, and it just went away, even though it was configured to have it last night.
> 
> Under System Information, it says "HDUI Available: No"
> 
> *I'm not sure if this is a smart move by Tivo or not. *If they will (very shortly) release a blazing fast HD UI with more than a couple screens, then this is a good move. If they're just going to turn the same junk couple of screens on in a couple of days, this was a dumb move.
> 
> Anyway, we'll have to see - *anyone else get the HD UI disabled after having it briefly, or not get it at all?*


----------



## innocentfreak

yeah I would PM TiVoPony.

Thread with his replies.



TiVoPony said:


> You should have the UI. If you're not seeing it, drop me a private message with your TSN (don't post your TSN in the thread!).
> 
> Thanks,
> Pony





TiVoPony said:


> Also, if you could let us know what you've set for your screen resolution, and whether you're using the 'smartscreen' setting under the video/tv aspect ratio menu that'll help.
> 
> Pony


----------



## bkdtv

I don't recall whether I mentioned this before, but Amazon VOD plays back at 1080p (if your display accepts 1080p24). Amazon encodes its content in 1080p24 @ 5Mbps.

Be aware 1080p30 playback is unsupported in the current Premiere software; videos encoded in 1080p30 only play back in 1080i. Only 1080p24 videos output in full 1080p.

Furthermore, I only get 1080p24 output if the file is encoded as 1920x1080p24. If it is a 2:35:1 video encoded as 1920x800p24, then the TiVo outputs 720p.


----------



## orangeboy

(Bolding added by me)


AbMagFab said:


> Where would a 1080p MPG originate from on the Tivo (if I didn't push it)?
> 
> And I know I can push them, *but pyTivo transcodes them* - at least any normal 1080p24 BluRay type of file, including HD camcorder files. Everything I've ever tried has been transcoded.


Added the word "pyTivo" for clarification:


orangeboy said:


> I push BluRay rips to my original _S3_* with no [*pyTivo*] transcoding, and have been for awhile now. Check out the TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo forum from time to time - and check the Video Compatibility chart found here: http://code.google.com/p/streambaby/wiki/video_compatibility
> 
> *I'm looking forward to the Premiere for better playback of said BluRay rips...





AbMagFab said:


> It is absolutely transcoding if you're talking a straight BluRay rip. The current Tivo is not capable of playing back those formats - just the audio alone makes them incompatible. Unless you're transcoding your rip at rip time (which is not what you said, and means it's being transcoded anyway).


Sorry. I should have clarified, but didn't realize I had to since we were talking about pyTivo transcoding. It appears that the Video Compatibility chart and BluRay codec specifications (according to wikipedia) are common in quite a few of the formats (audio seems to be the limiting factor here with the TiVo not supporting linear PCM, and the _optionally_ BluRay supported audio codecs). Perhaps pyTivo is transcoding what you're trying to push because of proprietary _containers_?


----------



## AbMagFab

orangeboy said:


> Sorry. I should have clarified, but didn't realize I had to since we were talking about pyTivo transcoding. It appears that the Video Compatibility chart and BluRay codec specifications (according to wikipedia) are common in quite a few of the formats (audio seems to be the limiting factor here with the TiVo not supporting linear PCM, and the _optionally_ BluRay supported audio codecs). Perhaps pyTivo is transcoding what you're trying to push because of proprietary _containers_?


Right, we're talking pyTivo here, which always transcodes to MPEG2 anyway. You mentioned StreamBaby, which has some other capabilities. Not sure what you're saying here, but pyTivo will transcode everything into MPEG2 as far as I know (and there's even a quote on the top of the link you posted - "Note that pyTivo pulls support mpeg2 format only, so any other types will be transcoded on the fly.").

First, there's not a single BluRay *HD *audio spec that the Tivo can handle, so a straight BluRay rip will not work, even through StreamBaby. I think we can agree here?

Perhaps during your rip, you are muxing down the audio to just the non-HD audio? Not sure why you'd do this, but okay.

Even so, the core audio tracks will always be above the max specs for Tivo audio tracks (minimum 640K in real life), so again, transcoding will be necessary. Just check out the audio tracks on any BluRay, and you'll see that the bitrate alone is always higher than the max Tivo audio bitrate?

Anyway, there's no way a BluRay rip can make it to the Tivo without transcoding somewhere - either on the PC prior to transfer, or through pyTivo during transfer.


----------



## orangeboy

AbMagFab said:


> Well, there's not a single BluRay *HD *audio spec that the Tivo can handle, so a straight BluRay rip will not work. I think we can agree here?


Do you not see AC3 listed in both links I provided?


----------



## AbMagFab

orangeboy said:


> Do you not see AC3 listed in both links I provided?


Yes, do you see the max bitrate in the link you provided?

"Audio sampling rates need to be either 44.1 KHz or 48 KHz and audio bit rates should not exceed 448 Kbps."

1) DD5.1 tracks are not HD audio. All "straight" BluRay rips will have HD audio, which the Tivo will not play.

2) The "core" track, if it's TrueHD only, will be DD5.1, but will be at 640K bitrate minimum, per real-life.

3) PCM and DTS-HD audio have to be transcoded when sent to the Tivo, and at least half (more like 65%) of BluRays fall into this category.

I don't see any combination that would allow for non-transcoded transfer to a Tivo Series 3. Perhaps the premiere can handle > 448k DD5.1 tracks, but even so you either are stripping the HD audio at rip time (seems like a silly idea), or transcoding at stream time.


----------



## comma splice

Not sure how any of this latest debate qualifies as "TiVo Premiere - First impressions" ... but OK!

But also, who would try to rip a Blu-ray onto a TiVo? Why not just watch it on a, um, blu-ray player??


----------



## AbMagFab

comma said:


> Not sure how any of this latest debate qualifies as "TiVo Premiere - First impressions" ... but OK!
> 
> But also, who would try to rip a Blu-ray onto a TiVo? Why not just watch it on a, um, blu-ray player??


You don't want to go there... Better to check out the AVS forums. There are tons of reasons to watch a BluRay from a PC (ripped to a hard drive) versus a player, not the least of which is having your entire library available on-demand (legality aside).

However watching it from the Tivo, which can't provide HD audio, makes little sense to me, as the HD audio is 1/2 the benefit of the BluRay, IMO.

Anyway, back on topic. I PM's TivoPony to get my HD UI turned back on, but no response as of yet.


----------



## comma splice

AbMagFab said:


> You don't want to go there... Better to check out the AVS forums. There are tons of reasons to watch a BluRay from a PC (ripped to a hard drive) versus a player, not the least of which is having your entire library available on-demand (legality aside).


Well, I do want to go there. (To be clear, you helped steer this topic off course.)

Let me just say that you would have to be really lazy to not be willing to get up out of your chair  and switch out a disc when you want to watch a different movie.

Not to mention the fact that you'd have to have a pretty nice PC to rival the video and sound quality you'd get from a $200 Blu-ray player.


----------



## wmcbrine

AbMagFab said:


> Right, we're talking pyTivo here, which always transcodes to MPEG2 anyway.


Not on a "push", no. (That's a transfer originated via pyTivo's web interface.)


----------



## AbMagFab

comma said:


> Well, I do want to go there. (To be clear, you helped steer this topic off course.)
> 
> Let me just say that you would have to be really lazy to not be willing to get up out of your chair  and switch out a disc when you want to watch a different movie.
> 
> Not to mention the fact that you'd have to have a pretty nice PC to rival the video and sound quality you'd get from a $200 Blu-ray player.


The PC is just the disk storage server. You use another device, like a PCH or Dune to stream the files, in HD audio and HD video.

Do you have a stack of CDs, or do you have them all scanned and available on demand? It's no different with videos (DVD or BluRay). It has nothing to do with lazy, it has to do with having your entire collection digitally stored and ready for play on-demand from any TV at any time.

Just by the fact that you've asked this question, I'd suggest to go over to AVS and read up on this. You'll quickly find yourself in a minority among video enthusiasts.


----------



## comma splice

AbMagFab said:


> The PC is just the disk storage server. You use another device, like a PCH or Dune to stream the files, in HD audio and HD video.
> 
> Do you have a stack of CDs, or do you have them all scanned and available on demand? It's no different with videos (DVD or BluRay). It has nothing to do with lazy, it has to do with having your entire collection digitally stored and ready for play on-demand from any TV at any time.
> 
> Just by the fact that you've asked this question, I'd suggest to go over to AVS and read up on this. You'll quickly find yourself in a minority among video enthusiasts.


I've been on AVS forum for years, probably since you were nipping at your mama's ankles.

But the difference between digitizing CDs and digitizing DVD/blu-ray is that people like to make a playlist of their favorite songs from several CDs. Then they can play them back in their preferred order while skipping over songs they don't like.

Nobody but the biggest couch potato would find any benefit in making a similar "playlist" of their favorite movies.

I'm not saying that digitizing your movies is an illegitimate practice. People who have hundreds of blu-rays obviously have more money (and time to watch movies) than I do. I could see how they might use this setup for cutting down on clutter at the very least.

I'm just saying that, to me, it would be pointless. When I want to watch a movie, I put the blu-ray in my PS3 and turn on the TV. I get the best picture and sound without adding any unnecessary steps or costs to the process.


----------



## MickeS

comma said:


> Nobody but the biggest couch potato would find any benefit in making a similar "playlist" of their favorite movies.


Unfortunately for you, this forum and at AVS is where you're likely to find the biggest couch potatoes. 

Discs suck. Ripped and streaming video is the future.


----------



## RoyK

MickeS said:


> Unfortunately for you, this forum and at AVS is where you're likely to find the biggest couch potatoes.
> 
> Discs suck. Ripped and streaming video is the future.


Why stream when you can simply connect the HDMI output of your HTPC to your TV and play?

Actually the future is where your HTPC is part of your TV.


----------



## comma splice

MickeS said:


> Unfortunately for you, this forum and at AVS is where you're likely to find the biggest couch potatoes.
> 
> Discs suck. Ripped and streaming video is the future.


Perhaps. When there's a low-cost way to do it that's reliable and just as easy as sticking a disc into a machine and pressing play, I'll be among the first to buy it.


----------



## MickeS

RoyK said:


> Why stream when you can simply connect the HDMI output of your HTPC to your TV and play?
> 
> Actually the future is where your HTPC is part of your TV.


Well, I was talking in the abstract... 

I too have a PC connected to the TV (though I don't record anything on it), so I don't really need any of all these new gadgets on the market, including the new TiVo broadband functionality.


----------



## AbMagFab

comma said:


> Perhaps. When there's a low-cost way to do it that's reliable and just as easy as sticking a disc into a machine and pressing play, I'll be among the first to buy it.


Again, that's here already. If you really are curious, go read up. Many of us have systems in place that can be easily used by our wives/kids/baby sitters. We are way past the technophile stage, and well into the normal CE device stage.

*This is here now *- You can bring up a wall of movie posters/movie boxes, organized however you want, filtered however you want. You can review the plot, rating, runtime, etc. When you find what you want, you just hit play and you get the full original quality streamed to you instantly. All using your standard single remote control. Stable enough to run for weeks/months without being rebooted.

Just because you're unaware of it, doesn't mean there's not a ton of value in it.

And I'll try again - it has little to do with playlists or being a couch potato, it has to do with digitizing your media for instant access anywhere. Physical media is passe and pointless. And disk space is bordering on free. The devices to playback are also very inexpensive, in the ~$200 range for many of them, with full HD video and bitstreaming HD audio.

Anyway, you seem to have been left out of this part of the digitizing evolution, so do some research then get back to us!:up:


----------



## aaronwt

AbMagFab said:


> You don't want to go there... Better to check out the AVS forums. There are tons of reasons to watch a BluRay from a PC (ripped to a hard drive) versus a player, not the least of which is having your entire library available on-demand (legality aside).
> 
> However watching it from the Tivo, which can't provide HD audio, makes little sense to me, as the HD audio is 1/2 the benefit of the BluRay, IMO.
> 
> Anyway, back on topic. I PM's TivoPony to get my HD UI turned back on, but no response as of yet.


I like using a media player better. I did the HTPC thing in the early 2000's with SDI connections from the DVD players. My Popcorn Hour C200 plays back my BD ISos just like sticking a disc in the player, and only uses a few watts.

I have over 100 BD ISOs so far but still have over 600 titles to rip from my BDs and HD DVDs.


----------



## scummybear

AbMagFab said:


> Again, that's here already. If you really are curious, go read up. Many of us have systems in place that can be easily used by our wives/kids/baby sitters. We are way past the technophile stage, and well into the normal CE device stage.
> 
> *This is here now *- You can bring up a wall of movie posters/movie boxes, organized however you want, filtered however you want. You can review the plot, rating, runtime, etc. When you find what you want, you just hit play and you get the full original quality streamed to you instantly. All using your standard single remote control. Stable enough to run for weeks/months without being rebooted.
> 
> Just because you're unaware of it, doesn't mean there's not a ton of value in it.
> 
> And I'll try again - it has little to do with playlists or being a couch potato, it has to do with digitizing your media for instant access anywhere. Physical media is passe and pointless. And disk space is bordering on free. The devices to playback are also very inexpensive, in the ~$200 range for many of them, with full HD video and bitstreaming HD audio.
> 
> Anyway, you seem to have been left out of this part of the digitizing evolution, so do some research then get back to us!:up:


I agree. It is definitely more convenient for me to just store it all on an old pc I had. Through ubuntu server on there, and save all rips and downloads to that drive on network. Not that I am too lazy to put in a disc, but everything is stored there, organized, and accessible from the 360 in the basement, and soon to be tivo premiere in the living room, and hacked xbox with xbmc in the bedroom. I can simply box up after I rip, throw in box in closet, and never worry about it again. Streaming just makes it easy to know exactly where the movie is, not to mention have stupid ass friends borrow movies without asking. lol. And we also stream our music collection through surround sound in the living room/basement when we have people over.

And it is all easy enough to do, that even my wife can get it working. And she is even less tech savvy then I am. lol


----------



## comma splice

AbMagFab said:


> Anyway, you seem to have been left out of this part of the digitizing evolution, so do some research then get back to us!:up:


Arrogant, passive-aggressive people like you make me think I'm onto something with my current philosophy. Thanks!

:up::up:


----------



## macgyver

I just got my two XL boxes. Nothing feels cheesy about the boxes themselves (physically). The remotes seem fine. They are glossy plastic, which I don't care for as much as matte, but that's a style thing.

Comcast doesn't come until tomorrow so I'm only going to get so far with the setup tonight, but I just thought I'd drop my 2 cents having seen the earlier comments about cheesy or cheap build quality. These will look just fine next to my Sony equipment. They're certainly much nicer than the DirecTiVo boxes they are replacing (I've only seen the previous TiVo standalone boxes in passing, so I can't comment on how they compare there).


----------



## comma splice

macgyver said:


> I just got my two XL boxes. Nothing feels cheesy about the boxes themselves (physically). The remotes seem fine. They are glossy plastic, which I don't care for as much as matte, but that's a style thing.
> 
> Comcast doesn't come until tomorrow so I'm only going to get so far with the setup tonight, but I just thought I'd drop my 2 cents having seen the earlier comments about cheesy or cheap build quality. These will look just fine next to my Sony equipment. They're certainly much nicer than the DirecTiVo boxes they are replacing (I've only seen the previous TiVo standalone boxes in passing, so I can't comment on how they compare there).


Yeah, my XL came during my lunch break today. Free, one-day ground shipping... One of the perks of living in Texas, I guess.

Anyway, the notion that these boxes are "cheesy" or poorly built seemed out-of-touch, to me. They have substantial weight and look very slick.

I'll post some more about the inside (what really counts) once I get it going.


----------



## b_scott

thanks for getting back on topic!


----------



## BlackBetty

comma said:


> Anyway, the notion that these boxes are "cheesy" or poorly built seemed out-of-touch, to me. They have substantial weight and look very slick.


I agree.


----------



## jmpage2

comma said:


> I've been on AVS forum for years, probably since you were nipping at your mama's ankles.
> 
> But the difference between digitizing CDs and digitizing DVD/blu-ray is that people like to make a playlist of their favorite songs from several CDs. Then they can play them back in their preferred order while skipping over songs they don't like.
> 
> Nobody but the biggest couch potato would find any benefit in making a similar "playlist" of their favorite movies.
> 
> I'm not saying that digitizing your movies is an illegitimate practice. People who have hundreds of blu-rays obviously have more money (and time to watch movies) than I do. I could see how they might use this setup for cutting down on clutter at the very least.
> 
> I'm just saying that, to me, it would be pointless. When I want to watch a movie, I put the blu-ray in my PS3 and turn on the TV. I get the best picture and sound without adding any unnecessary steps or costs to the process.


If you have hundreds of movies it becomes cumbersome to have them all at hand ready to put into the machine. Additionally you have the added concern that a disc could be damaged and rendered unplayable. There's also pretty long load times of 1-2 minutes or longer for many titles, plus watching all the previews and other garbage before you get to the main feature.

Now factor in a household with multiple AV setups such as one in the family room, bedroom, workout room, etc.

Ripping and centralizing your media solves all of these issues. You rip your collection and store them safely, then access the content from any TV in the house that you put a streaming device on.

I like this idea even better than downloadable content because you are getting 100% of the pure audio and video quality of the original BD with no further compression and as a bonus you can eliminate the annoying menus, previews and warnings if you don't want to see them.

The only issue with this solution is the quasi legality currently, but hopefully in the future BD will open up aspects of home licensing that will make this completely legitimate and even appliance based where you just stick the disc into a "jukebox" and it gets the disc ready for you.

I'm looking at getting either PCH, Popbox or Dune to do this myself and quite excited about it as I have TVs in the workout room, family room and bedroom (not to mention guest room) that could all benefit from not having to schlep a handful of discs around the house.


----------



## comma splice

jmpage2 said:


> ...


Thanks for this well-worded post. (And for not treating me like yesterday's garbage!) When/if I have the money I would love a setup like the one you describe. In the meantime, I can watch high-quality movies for the cost of my PS3. Good enough for me.


----------



## oViTynoT

Here here!  Streaming is the new Black. 

I ripped my entire DVD library (200+ discs) to MKV so I can "On-Demand" them to any of my PCs, and my TVs via WDTV Live players. 

My KIDS love it, because they can pop in any movie in less than 15 seconds, and I love that I don't get new fingerprints and peanut butter all over my original media. 

So far, I've only consumed about 400 Megs of my 1TB Media share, but I don't have any of my BD's ripped, either.


----------



## NotVeryWitty

comma said:


> Sorry for your bad experience. I'm sure that because the unit you got only had working tuner, everyone else's will too.





comma said:


> Thanks for this well-worded post. (And for not treating me like yesterday's garbage!)


Perhaps your earlier smarta$$ response might have had a little bit to do with how you were treated...


----------



## comma splice

NotVeryWitty said:


> Perhaps your earlier smarta$$ response might have had a little bit to do with how you were treated...


Yep!


----------



## jmpage2

oViTynoT said:


> Here here! Streaming is the new Black.
> 
> I ripped my entire DVD library (200+ discs) to MKV so I can "On-Demand" them to any of my PCs, and my TVs via WDTV Live players.
> 
> My KIDS love it, because they can pop in any movie in less than 15 seconds, and I love that I don't get new fingerprints and peanut butter all over my original media.
> 
> So far, I've only consumed about 400 Megs of my 1TB Media share, but I don't have any of my BD's ripped, either.


I think you mean 400GB not Megs unless you're using some pretty serious compression on those DVDs (like to postage stamp size with mono 32 kbps audio!)


----------



## fyodor

orangeboy said:


> I push BluRay rips to my original _S3_* with no transcoding, and have been for awhile now. Check out the TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo forum from time to time - and check the Video Compatibility chart found here: http://code.google.com/p/streambaby/wiki/video_compatibility
> 
> *I'm looking forward to the Premiere for better playback of said BluRay rips...


Really? My understanding was that the S3 would not support blu-ray bitrates, even if the same codecs were supported at lower bitrates.


----------



## fyodor

comma said:


> Well, I do want to go there. (To be clear, you helped steer this topic off course.)
> 
> Let me just say that you would have to be really lazy to not be willing to get up out of your chair  and switch out a disc when you want to watch a different movie.
> 
> Not to mention the fact that you'd have to have a pretty nice PC to rival the video and sound quality you'd get from a $200 Blu-ray player.


I'm not going to shlep over and put in a new movie like some sort of thirteenth century French serf.

Beyond the convenience factor, which _does_ matter to some people, it's especially an issue when you have multiple viewing rooms and when you have several people (especially children) and don't want to keep track of what is where.


----------



## comma splice

fyodor said:


> I'm not going to shlep over and put in a new movie like some sort of thirteenth century French serf.


I LOL'd


----------



## b_scott

where are all these children who know how to use media centers and Tivo's for streaming, but also put peanut butter all over discs and leave them in the toaster?


----------



## matguy

b_scott said:


> where are all these children who know how to use media centers and Tivo's for streaming, but also put peanut butter all over discs and leave them in the toaster?


Um, a mixture of my kids. My daughter is 10 and she knows how to use media centers/Tivo/whatever, but she also has a -very- bad habbit of leaving disks sitting out. My 3 year old son thinks these disks sitting out are toys, upon which Peanut Butter is deposited and then toasted.


----------



## b_scott

matguy said:


> Um, a mixture of my kids. My daughter is 10 and she knows how to use media centers/Tivo/whatever, but she also has a -very- bad habbit of leaving disks sitting out. My 3 year old son thinks these disks sitting out are toys, upon which Peanut Butter is deposited and then toasted.


lol


----------



## Mike-Mike

comma said:


> I LOL'd


me too :up:


----------



## riekl

fyodor said:


> Really? My understanding was that the S3 would not support blu-ray bitrates, even if the same codecs were supported at lower bitrates.


That's because it can't, Blu-Ray need 5MB/sec minimum and the S3 can't come close to that, at best it does 3, 3.5 on a good day.


----------



## brasscat

OK - got mine going through the setup -- to initial download -- currently.

Have to say, I think the opinion that Premiere looks "cheap" is overstated. To me, it looks like what you'd expect from the next gen box. Smaller, lighter. There's clear plastic shipping tape covering the glossy front panel, which I peeled off (which is what you're supposed to do) and after that it looks quality to me. The box to me shows refinement and simplification. 

Without the IR port, there's less cables the thing ships with too. Opening a TiVo shipping box is not like opening an Apple product, but it does the job and to me doesn't take away any from my first impressions.

The new remote: I weighed the old and new. The old remote is 5.6oz and the new one is 5.5oz (both with batteries). The key feel difference is the glossy back of the new remote, part of which is ribbed, which doesn't feel as good as the matted black plastic of the previous gen remote. Overall, however, I like the new remote better! The buttons feel better, more solid, and the colors and print are more vibrant than previous gen.

The old software came on mine... My TiVo is updating to the new firmware already (when I first starting writing this it just started getting program information over wifi, so that part completed noticeably quicker). Using the low-res menus doesn't feel a lot different than my old TiVo HD at this point.

That's all I have for now. I'm just hoping the new firmware will install before Lost tonight 2 hrs 10 minutes from now. 

If I notice anything else of interest, I'll comment here. So far, and in my opinion, the new TiVo looks pretty good from the hardware/remote perspective.

I hold that they should have integrated wifi into the unit though. Hooking up an external wifi usb adapter (of which only theirs will work) feels like they're trying to crook me out of more $$$. Not the end of the world though, but I raise my eyebrow at that design "decision." And if they included the keyboard slider remote, the entire industry would be liking it... that would be a great market differentiator that the DVR-using public would understand.


----------



## riekl

comma said:


> Perhaps. When there's a low-cost way to do it that's reliable and just as easy as sticking a disc into a machine and pressing play, I'll be among the first to buy it.


Have you not seen Apple TV ? Kicks Amazon's butt in terms of usability and library. Not to mention a slick interface that even my 3 year old can (unfortuanately) order from.


----------



## orangeboy

fyodor said:


> Really? My understanding was that the S3 would not support blu-ray bitrates, even if the same codecs were supported at lower bitrates.


I didn't say I actually _watched_ the pushed content, merely that I can push without pyTivo transcoding.


----------



## raker

fyodor said:


> I'm not going to shlep over and put in a new movie like some sort of thirteenth century French serf.


BRAVO

:up:

+2 ROFL

Love the visual


----------



## matguy

fyodor said:


> I'm not going to shlep over and put in a new movie like some sort of thirteenth century French serf.


Hey, I know some guys that go to great lengths and expense to reenact being a thirteenth century French surf... but they also don't shower very often already, so it wasn't a big stretch.


----------



## b3ar

Biggest first impression: Wow, is this going to be tedious to get everything updated and moved over. I've asked for it repeatedly, but I really, really want a "clone TiVo" feature to move over all of my season passes and wish lists (~60).


----------



## falcon26

I get my new tivo thursday. But my dumb Mcard would be installed until sunday. Can I go threw the initial setup and download all the updates and firmware stuff without having a cable card yet?


----------



## b3ar

Oh, yeah, the M-Card seems to have worked straight from Comcast. Now comes the hassle of downloading all of the guide data and channel information for the next 1 - 2 days.


----------



## brasscat

More impressions: As you're probably aware, when you dig into the menus deep enough the SD interface comes up and the video mode switches. My TV, which is a late 6 series 52" Samsung sometimes can't sync the video on the switch, and I just get a black screen. I have to turn the TV off and on again to get a picture. Not good.

The new interface is indeed slow, but you can get to where you want about as fast as the previous generation (just don't wait for the whole menu page to render).

When changing channels, there's a momentary grey screen before the change. That sucks. Why?

My HD antenna doesn't work as well with this unit as it did with the TiVo HD. My signal strength is a little less on most channels.

I'm hoping this is an indexing thing - but the program guide says it's loaded to the 4th of April, but I can't find shows like 30 Rock or Community. So I'm going to wait a little longer and try again.

When in the menus, a mini video of what's currently playing displays at the upper right, but it's not really fitting exactly right in the box. Looks unpolished. Hasn't someone spotted that the cutout for the video is not matching the video itself? This is a small item, I know, but it's annoying me.

Video mode switches everywhere when you use the new interface. That slows everything down, and sometime my TV can't sync to the new mode without turning it off and on again.

So indeed, I wholeheartedly agree that the software needs polish, big time. This feels just like an early beta, not a shipping piece of software. The SD system was way more polished than the HD menu system. Whoever mandated / approved this version was ready to ship clearly smoking pipe at the time -- or has low quality standards.

Don't get me wrong, it works. But the software execution is clunky. You'll see for yourself soon enough.


----------



## TWinbrook46636

brasscat said:


> My HD antenna doesn't work as well with this unit as it did with the TiVo HD. My signal strength is a little less on most channels.


Anyone else using it with OTA? Better or worse? How long does it take to scan available channels?


----------



## aaronwt

riekl said:


> That's because it can't, Blu-Ray need 5MB/sec minimum and the S3 can't come close to that, at best it does 3, 3.5 on a good day.


There are plenty of BD titles that don't come anywhere close to 5MB/sec(40mbs)


----------



## brasscat

TWinbrook46636 said:


> Anyone else using it with OTA? Better or worse? How long does it take to scan available channels?


Scanning OTA is very fast.


----------



## nrc

b3ar said:


> Biggest first impression: Wow, is this going to be tedious to get everything updated and moved over. I've asked for it repeatedly, but I really, really want a "clone TiVo" feature to move over all of my season passes and wish lists (~60).


If you're networked and can use MRV, try transferring a show and the see if you can use "Explore this program" as a short cut to get a season pass on the new box.


----------



## ciucca

After reading this thread I'm glad I didn't buy it


----------



## Sy-

b_scott said:


> where are all these children who know how to use media centers and Tivo's for streaming, but also put peanut butter all over discs and leave them in the toaster?


 This post made me laugh! :up:


----------



## whynot83706

Just got my first Tivo....but does it really take two hours for my service to be activate?


----------



## scummybear

whynot83706 said:


> Just got my first Tivo....but does it really take two hours for my service to be activate?


July 2006, that is a lot of research! 

If I'm not mistaken, you can run guided setup in the mean time waiting for activation. And hopefully when it is activated, guided setup will be done and you will be good to go.


----------



## mr1581

I'm just trouble getting my premium channels on the mcard that I swapped from my tivohd. Everything else is working as it should


----------



## brasscat

My service only took about 25 minutes to setup, but it took another 2 hrs for the program data to index (become available) to the system.


----------



## [email protected]

I picked up a n M-card from the local Comcast storefront on Saturday, so I was ready when my TiVo Premier arrived today. I stuck it in the S4 before powering up and it found the card and gave me the CC setup screen. After the (unfortunately) normal amount of time on the phone with Comcast being transferred to the wrong departments, it was paired.

I was expecting hours of wait time for the download/install of the new software and guide info. But I was pleasantly surprised that it went fairly quickly.

Nor did I find the box itself to be "cheesy." I found it to be quite adequate - although might not want to stack a couple of Series one TiVos on top of it. I like the remote. It does not have the rub-off chrome like the glo. But it does have the ridging over the bottom.

Neither does the slowness of the HD menu interface seem to merit all the hue and cry, moaning, groaning, and gnashing of teeth. It could be a bit slow at times, but not enough to trigger anger on my part. 

I am disappointed that there appears to be much less info when you press the info key for a program in the HD menu. I thought one of the selling points was the wealth of information (comparing it to IMDB!) Well, that part ain't there and it was disingenuous of TiVo to imply it was.

I have not been able to do any transfers to/from either my TiVo HDs or S2. I can see them listed, but the S4 reports them all to be empty. Nor can my HDs find any recording on my S4. Hopefully this will all be straightened out before too long. 

My account on TiVo's web site gave the S4 the name of the HD I used for the upgrade. And the HD got a generic name. That cause me all sorts of confusion. I renamed the HD back. Maybe that needs to completely synch before the units will be able to transfer between the HDs and S4. 

TiVo also seems to have problems where they now think all my TiVos are past due. I made a couple calls today and thought that got straightened up. But it looks like I will need to call again tomorrow. 

I will also need a bit of time to get use to the 30sec scan and the 1 sec button press.


----------



## innocentfreak

[email protected] said:


> I am disappointed that there appears to be much less info when you press the info key for a program in the HD menu. I thought one of the selling points was the wealth of information (comparing it to IMDB!) Well, that part ain't there and it was disingenuous of TiVo to imply it was.


It might be due to the fact the TiVo would still be indexing. I would give it 48 hours or so and then look again to see if there is more info. Having not received mine yet, is it possible that the screen you are on is only for a quick view and there is a more detailed screen?


----------



## b_scott

Sy- said:


> This post made me laugh! :up:


----------



## kylemax

TWinbrook46636 said:


> Anyone else using it with OTA? Better or worse? How long does it take to scan available channels?


I would say the tuner on this isn't the best for OTA (my tv tuner is much better). I thought it would be great but reminds me of my OTA tuner on my pc. My original scan went super fast but I have a rotor and needed to do other scans and they took 30 plus minutes.


----------



## b3ar

nrc said:


> If you're networked and can use MRV, try transferring a show and the see if you can use "Explore this program" as a short cut to get a season pass on the new box.


Transfers are slow (we do a lot of HD). The fastest route is to use Tivo.com and look at the old box's recording schedule and then add the relevant season passes to the new box as the guide data becomes available. It's still pretty tedious, though.


----------



## aaronwt

I just take a picture of the SP list and use that as a guide with the new box. At least it gives me a chance to remove some SPs that I don't watch anymore.

Although I must admit I'm not looking forward to setting up all the SPs again for eight boxes over the next week.


----------



## b3ar

aaronwt said:


> I just take a picture of the SP list and use that as a guide with the new box. At least it gives me a chance to remove some SPs that I don't watch anymore.
> 
> Although I must admit I'm not looking forward to setting up all the SPs again for eight boxes over the next week.


It's a similar approach. Using the website, I can get the stuff that is recorded frequently (e.g., comedy programs). Some of the more esoteric stuff, though, is where TiVo really comes in handy (e.g., shows that have a short season like some of the SyFy originals), and if those aren't available in the guide, you can't set them up as a season pass. I could set up a wishlist item, but for those, I've found them to be best for broad category items (e.g., give me everything related to bicycle racing), or for casual catch-as-catch-can stuff.


----------



## chrishicks

After just reading all nine pages of this topic I can see that the Premiere is not for me. I only use my Tivo to you know, record TV shows. I don't really need a box that can mow my lawn or plant trees while also singing Kumbaya or any of that nonsense so I'm just going to stick with my old, archaic S3 that does just that, record my shows.


----------



## MickeS

chrishicks said:


> After just reading all nine pages of this topic I can see that the Premiere is not for me. I only use my Tivo to you know, record TV shows. I don't really need a box that can mow my lawn or plant trees while also singing Kumbaya or any of that nonsense so I'm just going to stick with my old, archaic S3 that does just that, record my shows.


Yes, for now I too believe that the Premiere is the best choice for someone new to TiVo, but not worth an upgrade for someone who already has a THD/S3 and is happy with that.

Looks like the main real advantage of the Premiere is the much increased transfer speeds for MRV and TTG. That is surely worth it to some who have multiple TiVos and no problem with copy protection on recordings.


----------



## KrazyKiko

So for someone looking to ditch the Series2, the Premier should be a step up... I'll get a HD tuner (our TV is HD-ready) and ability to record two shows (we have OTA and basic cable).


----------



## MickeS

KrazyKiko said:


> So for someone looking to ditch the Series2, the Premier should be a step up... I'll get a HD tuner (our TV is HD-ready) and ability to record two shows (we have OTA and basic cable).


In your case, definitely. Just remember you need to get CableCARDs from the cable company if you want the cable locals in HD in addition to the OTA (they might not want to give it without a digital package, but you can almost surely sign up for digital, get the CableCARDs and then drop digital and keep the CableCARDs, if they refuse).


----------



## b3ar

MickeS said:


> In your case, definitely. Just remember you need to get CableCARDs from the cable company if you want the cable locals in HD in addition to the OTA (they might not want to give it without a digital package, but you can almost surely sign up for digital, get the CableCARDs and then drop digital and keep the CableCARDs, if they refuse).


Locals should be in ClearQAM, i.e., unencrypted.


----------



## ldobson

b3ar said:


> Locals should be in ClearQAM, i.e., unencrypted.


Correct, No Cablecard is required for HD Locals.


----------



## NotVeryWitty

ldobson said:


> Correct, No Cablecard is required for HD Locals.


Yes, but you won't get guide data for your cable locals unless you have a CableCard (it doesn't matter whether the cable encrypts them or not).


----------



## ldobson

NotVeryWitty said:


> Yes, but you won't get guide data for your cable locals unless you have a CableCard (it doesn't matter whether the cable encrypts them or not).


That's true but you have their analog equivulents which do have guide data, which is probably only going to be a handful of channels you have to keep track of. Probably not the best solution but if your only paying for basic to start with..


----------



## whynot83706

scummybear said:


> July 2006, that is a lot of research!
> 
> If I'm not mistaken, you can run guided setup in the mean time waiting for activation. And hopefully when it is activated, guided setup will be done and you will be good to go.


Yes I have been interested in Tivo for some time  so I am very happy i finally got my Tivo.


----------



## b_scott

bottom of the XL box:


----------



## BlackBetty

Thats flashy!


----------



## jwcooper

KrazyKiko said:


> So for someone looking to ditch the Series2, the Premier should be a step up... I'll get a HD tuner (our TV is HD-ready) and ability to record two shows (we have OTA and basic cable).


This is what I did. I have a Series 2 Single Tuner, and going from that to the Premiere is going to be a huge upgrade.

the Premiere having the dual tuners is going to be worth the upgrade for me. Getting HD, netflix, and the rest of the new stuff is a very nice bonus.


----------



## MickeS

NotVeryWitty said:


> Yes, but you won't get guide data for your cable locals unless you have a CableCard (it doesn't matter whether the cable encrypts them or not).


Exactly. Haven't we had this debate a thousand times already?  For all intents and purposes, you need CableCARD if you want cable HD.


----------



## brasscat

And just to beat a dead horse, 

If you get HD locals over antenna, you do not need a CableCard for guide data.


----------



## ldobson

MickeS said:


> Exactly. Haven't we had this debate a thousand times already?  For all intents and purposes, you need CableCARD if you want cable HD.


Except when you dont


----------



## DaveWhittle

Hooked mine up and am downloading the update. While I wait and anticipate, I'll pass along some first impressions so far.

I wouldn't call the box light or cheap, but it's pretty nondescript. 

The smooth/slick remote is ribbed (!) so there's no accidentally holding it upside-down. My previous Tivo remotes were the original series 1 and a couple DirecTV units. The D* peanut was longer, and had a couple dumb button decisions (power under instant replay???), so I'm happy to get back to the shorter original design. But it's new (again) for me, so it's going to take a little getting used to. Holding off judgment on the remote for now.

I liked that, when buying directly from Tivo, it's already registered. :up:

It is disappointing to be setting all the initial stuff in stretched SD-land on a brand-new box that's touting the HD experience. :down:

COOL -- "software update" is complete and the box is restarting. I'll be back.


----------



## gweempose

DaveWhittle said:


> I wouldn't call the box light or cheap, but it's pretty nondescript.


Nondescript is the perfect adjective to describe it. I'm a big fan of the smaller form factor. It makes it much easier to stick it under a dresser or other piece of furniture.


----------



## nrc

whynot83706 said:


> Yes I have been interested in Tivo for some time  so I am very happy i finally got my Tivo.


Welcome to the TiVolution!


----------



## AbMagFab

Updated initial post a little:

Pro - 1a) After using the couple of new UI screens for a couple days, *I can definitely see the potential*, but it's such a small part of the overall system, and it's still so crazy sluggish.

Con - 10) *No more channel icons on the Now Playing List*? Only when you select an item do you see the channel icon - big disappointment for me, especially when looking through wishlist folders (e.g. to know what's an NBC L&O vs. USA vs. TNT)


----------



## SoBayJake

ldobson said:


> Except when you dont


If you want to use TiVo the way it's intended to be used with cable HD channel, with accurately named shows, not "Manual this" and "Manual that" you need a cable card. And oh well when the cable company changes frequencies and you don't notice for a couple days.

If you are going to say you don't need cablecards with cable HD, you should really list all the drawbacks each time.


----------



## b_scott

all hooked up, MRV is working instantly on my XL. Channels work perfectly with my Comcast M-Card moved from my HD unit. I don't have any premiums. Already transferring from my Bedroom Tivo.

Took about 1.5 hours from power on to Tivo Menu, I think. Not 100&#37; sure since I was playing stuff on my PS3, but the blue light on the front of the Tivo tipped me off that something changed.


----------



## bkdtv

AbMagFab said:


> Con - 10) *No more channel icons on the Now Playing List*? Only when you select an item do you see the channel icon - big disappointment for me, especially when looking through wishlist folders (e.g. to know what's an NBC L&O vs. USA vs. TNT)


I didn't have these for the first week or so either. Now I have logos for many more channels.

If you are using MRV to transfer shows, be aware that TiVo's MRV does not transfer channel call-signs, so transferred shows won't have logos as a consequence.


----------



## b_scott

i'm pretty sure that "HD Recordings" showed my MRV transfer where it didn't before. Not that I like that folder. Can you remove it now?


----------



## tomm1079

I just got mine today. I dont have a cablecard yet so the setup was done without one. 

I really think people here jumped the gun a little. Did it really take people 5+ hours to do setup and downloading of the program info? I was done in under an hour with the initial info. Another connect and 30 mins later i had the full 2 weeks. Not sure how people where getting 5+.

The HD menu itself is not as bad as everyone says. yeah it is a little slow but overall not to bad. It is very annoying flipping between the 2 menus though. They really need to get the entire UI updated.

Streambaby works!

Overall i am glad i bought it.....and seeing how the drive upgrade isnt going to be done right away im very glad i bought the XL.


----------



## b_scott

does the quick clear on the progress bar "code" not work for anyone else either?


----------



## brasscat

After completely setting up the TiVo and using it about a day, the experience has gotten better for the me. Less video mode switching because I'm not in the setup screens as much.

I noticed as a DVR player, the engine that controls the playing image is much more responsive, which I like (a lot). In pausing, forwarding, playing, etc I can feel the added power. Navigating YouTube is quicker too; the screen loads much faster and the videos start playing quicker off the web.

I noticed the Season Pass manager has a bug with a show that plays on two channels. For example, The Office plays new on NBC and reruns on 27 (Dallas local)... but from the Season Pass manager I can only search->select the one that plays reruns on 27! I had to manually guide-thru the listings to Thursday, find the program, hit record and opt for a season pass to make work on the right channel. THAT STINKS! But at least I found that workaround.

Also, I was getting show conflicts when I was setting up Season Pass, saying that it couldn't record a program because another program was recording at that time. What about my two tuners? It didn't state two tuners were busy, just something else was recording.

I wish the on-screen guide was in HD. That's pretty much been the same looking guide since my series one.

Overall, though, I'm OK with the purchase, problems and all. As a DVR it works better than the competition I've seen. And I'm confident the quirks will be ironed out soon enough (or at least I'm hopeful).

BTW, I know there are announced enhancements/upgrades to the software in the works, some have been made public. Does anyone know if there's a thread that mentions what's officially in the works?


----------



## innocentfreak

The TiVo is probably still indexing which is why some shows aren't showing up in search yet. I would double check your to do list tomorrow before the shows run you want to record just in case. I would just set up shows for the next couple days and then on Saturday or Sunday go through and set all your season passes since it should be done indexing by then. 

I know this is usually how it worked in the past. I think search is the last thing to get indexed.


----------



## b_scott

found a bad search issue. Put in "Soup" and it didn't even come up with a suggestion of "The Soup". Had to type in the whole name and then it said "Soup, The"

Should've come up with just Soup


----------



## innocentfreak

Was your TiVo finished indexing when you performed the search?


----------



## b_scott

yep. I can find everything for two weeks.


----------



## nrc

b_scott said:


> found a bad search issue. Put in "Soup" and it didn't even come up with a suggestion of "The Soup". Had to type in the whole name and then it said "Soup, The"
> 
> Should've come up with just Soup


Try switching the order from most popular to alphabetical.


----------



## RayChuang88

A word for warning for those with program search issues: based on my experience with the TiVo HD XL (and it might be true for the TiVo Premiere software, too), unless your box has been getting program guide updates for at least 3-4 days you may have trouble getting channel allocations and program descriptions.

In short, I'd hold off complaining about doing searches on the TiVo Premiere until maybe four days after you set it up with the CableCARD and/or external SDV adapter connected.


----------



## DaveWhittle

Continuing the first impressions... I'm glad I was warned to be patient because the initial experience was somewhat disappointing. The following first impressions are after testing with Netflix, YouTube, set up some season passes, and watched American Idol. I haven't operated a Tivo in a couple years.

The good: 
-no real problems, everything set up properly, works and is easy to operate for the most part. 
-integration of TV with web (Netflix, YouTube, etc.) is cool. 
-DVR operation (skipping commercials) is smooth

The bad:
-Yes, the two HD menus, when you finally get to them, are nice... but still feel very out-of-place with the rest of the UI. 
-HD UI is indeed clunky. Pressing the Tivo button causes the screen to black out, sound to cut out, followed by the screen in the upper right over the background, then the menus draw in. Yuck.
-Navigating in the HD-UI is clunky and slow.
-I wasn't prepared for how "SD" the banner and info overlays look.

I bought this Premiere to replace my sluggish DirecTV HR22, but with this early software I'm mixed about this decision. I wanted a snappier, prettier UI with the Netflix/YouTube integration, but I only got the later. Based on initial response here about how the new interface is currently half-baked, I was prepared not to be overwhelmed. Even so, I still couldn't shake the feeling disappointment.

I'm not sure if I'll switch back to classic UI 'till they finish the HD version or not. And I still have 30 days to decide if I made a mistake switching away from DirecTV or not. * I really hope a new HD-UI comes soon and is complete.* *sigh*


----------



## innocentfreak

I wonder if some of the screen blacking out is due to the format change and how some TVs handle the switch from say 720P to 480i.


----------



## b_scott

DaveWhittle said:


> Pressing the Tivo button causes the screen to black out, sound to cut out, followed by the screen in the upper right over the background, then the menus draw in. Yuck.


My screen doesn't black out. Do you have everything 1080i/p over HDMI?

Sound cuts for a split second, and the screens do take a bit to draw. :sigh:


----------



## bkdtv

DaveWhittle said:


> -I wasn't prepared for how "SD" the banner and info overlays look.


If you are referring to the liveTV banners and overlays, those look SD because they are SD. TiVo hasn't done those yet.



DaveWhittle said:


> -HD UI is indeed clunky. Pressing the Tivo button causes the screen to black out, sound to cut out, followed by the screen in the upper right over the background, then the menus draw in. Yuck.


Pressing the TiVo button should only produce a "black out" *if* 480i and 480p are selected in Settings -> Video -> Video Output Format. The TiVo will display the HD menu at both 720p and 1080i.


----------



## DaveWhittle

b_scott said:


> My screen doesn't black out. Do you have everything 1080i/p over HDMI?
> 
> Sound cuts for a split second, and the screens do take a bit to draw. :sigh:


1080i over HDMI, audio from optical.

I should have said "briefly" black-out... maybe a second if that.


----------



## DaveWhittle

bkdtv said:


> If you are referring to the liveTV banners and overlays, those look SD because they are SD. TiVo hasn't done those yet.


Yep. I forgot how clunky these SD Live banners and status indicators would look over HD. I hope this is a priority.



> Pressing the TiVo button should only produce a "black out" *if* 480i and 480p are selected in Settings -> Video -> Video Output Format. The TiVo will display the HD menu at both 720p and 1080i.


ah.. this might have been the problem, thanks. The initial setup said everything would be at 1080i, but going through the settings in the menus revealed that 720p was selected. I temporarily changed this to all display modes, but then went back and switched to 1080i only.

So the "black-out" glitch might be solved, I'll report back once I confirm this. Thanks for pointing this out!


----------



## AbMagFab

DaveWhittle said:


> Yep. I forgot how clunky these SD Live banners and status indicators would look over HD. I hope this is a priority.
> 
> ah.. this might have been the problem, thanks. The initial setup said everything would be at 1080i, but going through the settings in the menus revealed that 720p was selected. I temporarily changed this to all display modes, but then went back and switched to 1080i only.
> 
> So the "black-out" glitch might be solved, I'll report back once I confirm this. Thanks for pointing this out!


I would hope so, but I wouldn't expect much.

Those SD banners have been in place since the Series 2. For the entire Series 3 life, they have been the same, including the "stretched" Tivo logo. They fixed the Tivo logo on the Series 3 menus, but still not the banners.

I sure hope they roll out the new HD UI beyond the current two screens, but I'm not holding my breath. If that's what you need to buy one, *you have to wait to see if it's ever implemented before buying one - there has been no public statement or promise from Tivo that they will do any more to the HD UI than they currently have done.*


----------



## b_scott

AbMagFab said:


> I would hope so, but I wouldn't expect much.
> 
> Those SD banners have been in place since the Series 2. For the entire Series 3 life, they have been the same, including the "stretched" Tivo logo. They fixed the Tivo logo on the Series 3 menus, but still not the banners.
> 
> I sure hope they roll out the new HD UI beyond the current two screens, but I'm not holding my breath. If that's what you need to buy one, *you have to wait to see if it's ever implemented before buying one - there has been no public statement or promise from Tivo that they will do any more to the HD UI than they currently have done.*


You're really a downer pessimist, to a outrageous extent.

The SD banners will change - they've said they're working on the other screens. It'd be a PR nightmare to not come through on that promise, considering they've already said it's in the works and that this is a "true HD" system; plus way more powerful.


----------



## bmgoodman

b_scott said:


> You're really a downer pessimist, to a outrageous extent.
> 
> The SD banners will change - they've said they're working on the other screens. It'd be a PR nightmare to not come through on that promise, considering they've already said it's in the works and that this is a "true HD" system; plus way more powerful.


Not to choose sides, but I do think people should be careful in assuming what Tivo has "promised" to provide with the Premier. I don't believe they're promised that every menu would be HD. Granted, they're still working on them, but does anyone think it is impossible that some menus might never be converted to HD? I'm also not sure they ever promised the enable the other processor. Sure, they're WORKING on that very thing, but is it impossible they will determine it to be "too difficult" based on the potential performance gain?

Plenty of people here have taken the position that users should buy a Tivo based ONLY on what it offers AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE, rather than any forward-looking "maybes". Well, that's probably good advice. If the Premier currently lacks something YOU decide is important, DON'T buy it now based on any "maybes". WAIT. If everyone follows this advice, won't there be fewer unhappy people a few months from now? Just my two cents.

As for me, I'm staying with the Series 3 and TivoHD I currently own. I see nothing in Premier that moves me to spend more money. FWIW, my current pet peeve is the Tivo's inability to resume a problematic VOD download. You know how much fun it is to have the device get 3 GB into an HD movie only to cough, wheeze, and start again from scratch?


----------



## AbMagFab

b_scott said:


> You're really a downer pessimist, to a outrageous extent.
> 
> The SD banners will change - they've said they're working on the other screens. It'd be a PR nightmare to not come through on that promise, considering they've already said it's in the works and that this is a "true HD" system; plus way more powerful.


Was it a PR nightmare that the Series 3 *HD* Tivos only had (some of) the Tivo logos converted to HD, and nothing else in HD (except the video)?

Tivo has a long history of making almost no updates to their systems, especially the UI, once they're released. It's reasonable to assume the same will happen here (although I would expect some performance improvements over time of the current system).

Can you provide some links to where Tivo has promised to do anything beyond what's in the initial release?


----------



## b_scott

There was a video posted by a Tivo employee shortly after announcement that went through all the menus and said things like "we don't have the HD menus in place for things like the grid YET, those will come with an update" etc. I can't find it though. It was posted on this site, I'm searching for it.


----------



## AbMagFab

b_scott said:


> There was a video posted by a Tivo employee shortly after announcement that went through all the menus and said things like "we don't have the HD menus in place for things like the grid YET, those will come with an update" etc. I can't find it though. It was posted on this site, I'm searching for it.


A video would be at least something, but if that's the only semi-official mention of improvements, I don't think it's crazy to be skeptical. And it says nothing about whether those improvements will be on the Premiere, or on something else.

For one, there is no reason to roll this box out in such an incomplete form. It's not like it has SDV built-in, or Tru2Way, or real box-to-box streaming, or something else that is causing them market share issues. It's just (potentially) faster, and has a partial new UI.

Why not wait until more of the new UI is done? Until at least some killer feature is added?

The most likely explanation is because this is pretty much it. It will get tweaked and performance will likely improve, but the Series 5 is where we'll see the next wave of improvements. Just like with the Series 3, the Series 4 will be mostly what it is on release (based on past Tivo box releases).


----------



## slowbiscuit

That makes no sense.


----------



## DaveWhittle

AbMagFab said:


> The most likely explanation is because this is pretty much it. It will get tweaked and performance will likely improve, but the Series 5 is where we'll see the next wave of improvements.


Are you implying we probably won't get any more HD menus, banners or overlays than the two menu pages we currently have? 

Man, I hope you are wrong. The switch going from setting up a season pass in HD to the prioritizer in SD is harsh! And that's just one example.

I've got no inside knowledge, but I'm pretty sure this UI is early, stable testing software that will be improved and extended, hopefully soon.


----------



## jrpeterson5

DaveWhittle said:


> Are you implying we probably won't get any more HD menus, banners or overlays then the two menu pages we currently have?
> 
> Man, I hope you are wrong. The switch going from setting up a season pass in HD to the prioritizer in SD is harsh! And that's just one example.
> 
> I've got no inside knowledge, but I'm pretty sure this UI is early, stable testing software that will be improved and extended, hopefully soon.


There's also the implication that the S3 is "mostly what it is on release".



AbMagFab said:


> Just like with the Series 3, the Series 4 will be mostly what it is on release (based on past Tivo box releases).


If memory serves I believe there have been numerous functionality upgrades to my S3.  So I agree - I hope this estimate is grossly underestimated!


----------



## matguy

** waiting for someone to mention Moxi **


----------



## ItsRounder

b_scott said:


> There was a video posted by a Tivo employee shortly after announcement that went through all the menus and said things like "we don't have the HD menus in place for things like the grid YET, those will come with an update" etc. I can't find it though. It was posted on this site, I'm searching for it.


Was it this video? http://www.betanews.com/article/Exclusive-Video-Indepth-with-TiVos-new-Premiere-interface/1267653389


----------



## turbobozz

matguy said:


> ** waiting for someone to mention Moxi **


I hear Moxi has Emmy winning HDUI, real streaming, and no subscription fees.


----------



## matguy

turbobozz said:


> I hear Moxi has Emmy winning HDUI, real streaming, and no subscription fees.


** Takes a drink **


----------



## b_scott

ItsRounder said:


> Was it this video? http://www.betanews.com/article/Exclusive-Video-Indepth-with-TiVos-new-Premiere-interface/1267653389


yes! thanks

start playing at 17min and he explains all that.

"We haven't done all of the UI in HD yet, there are some areas we haven't. So, you know you re-carpet your house you do the high traffic areas first. We haven't done wish lists, or the to-do list - we'll get to those later."

"That channel banner is not Hi Def yet - it will be, and it'll surface a lot of the same sort of content - the actor list, the youtube, the various sources that you can get it from, all in that banner - but we haven't done that yet. It'll come"


----------



## b_scott

AbMagFab said:


> Just like with the Series 3, the Series 4 will be mostly what it is on release (based on past Tivo box releases).


the truth is, you have zero basis for this opinion. You may say you're relying on past experience, but this box is leaps and bounds more powerful than any box released in the past. It's a revolution in power and interface for Tivo. They didn't spend all that money to give it all that power to sit around on two screens of HD and a search update. It'll happen.


----------



## AbMagFab

jrpeterson5 said:


> There's also the implication that the S3 is "mostly what it is on release".
> 
> If memory serves I believe there have been numerous functionality upgrades to my S3.  So I agree - I hope this estimate is grossly underestimated!


There were no additional UI changes to the S3 after the initial release, although there was lots of speculation - just on making the SD UI into HD, to handle more text on the NPL and ToDo list.

Not a single substantive UI change was ever done. (Although they did change "Swivel Search" to "Tivo Search"... )

There were no significant functionality enhancements beyond things like Amazon and NetFlix, and these were mostly external. Yes, they had to roll out updates to the Tivo OS, but that was mostly behind-the-scenes functionality, buried behind some awful HME UI, or just showing up in the NPL.

And most (all?) of the S3 functionality changes were driven by marketing partnerships, which presumably also had some financial incentive.

The big things we want to see on the S4 - more/complete HD screens, box-to-box streaming, etc. - are mostly user-driven improvements, with no partnership revenue. While market share should be a driving factor, Tivo has never shown that to be a driving factor in their decisions (to date).

Anyway, I hope they do the right things, and I hope they improve the S4 with new HD UI screens, new box-to-box streaming, and more, *but history is the best predictor of the future. And that means we'll see some performance improvements of what's there, and some more partnerships like Hulu, and that's it. IMO.*


----------



## AbMagFab

b_scott said:


> the truth is, you have zero basis for this opinion. You may say you're relying on past experience, but this box is leaps and bounds more powerful than any box released in the past. It's a revolution in power and interface for Tivo. They didn't spend all that money to give it all that power to sit around on two screens of HD and a search update. It'll happen.


*At least I have the ~10 years of Tivo history to draw from.* You are making a conclusion based on the fact that they now have a better processor in there?

Tivo has a very very consistent pattern of what they do after box release. They are very consistent on what drives the changes they introduce. If a partnership is involved, likely with revenue, they do it. If it's just to improve the user experience, they don't. If it's to fix a bug, there's a 50/50 chance they do it within 12 months of the bug being confirmed, assuming it's widespread enough.

And BTW, that processor is about the same as what's in the iPhone. Seriously. And that's only if they use both cores. So don't get all excited about it like it's super powerful or something.


----------



## AbMagFab

b_scott said:


> yes! thanks
> 
> start playing at 17min and he explains all that.


*That's literally the marketing guy. *He has about as much credibility as I do to say what the future holds for the UI.


----------



## b_scott

AbMagFab said:


> *At least I have the ~10 years of Tivo history to draw from.*


I've got 6 years. So? I've used all the ones you've used except the Series 1.

Look up to that video posted, and watch/read the quotes. That's the director of marketing.


----------



## b_scott

AbMagFab said:


> *That's literally the marketing guy. *He has about as much credibility as I do to say what the future holds for the UI.


I'll bet he knows a little more than a consumer. Just a hunch.


----------



## wickerbill

I would be hesitant to believe TiVo will do anything until it has actually been done. Kind of like how my Series 3 was supposed to support M-cards but still doesn't.


----------



## b_scott

wickerbill said:


> I would be hesitant to believe TiVo will do anything until it has actually been done. Kind of like how my Series 3 was supposed to support M-cards but still doesn't.


It supports M-Cards. Just need two of them


----------



## daveak

This new box is rather clunky and I can't get the cooperative scheduling to force a higher priority on to my S3 box, if it already has a show scheduled in the same slot. I think I need to fix one of the global settings, but this is rather new to me....

Other than that, it is pretty much what I expect from reading on this thread. The box sure is perky.

4/1 post


----------



## SoBayJake

daveak said:


> This new box is rather clunky and I can't get the cooperative scheduling to force a higher priority on to my S3 box, if it already has a show scheduled in the same slot. I think I need to fix one of the global settings, but this is rather new to me....
> 
> Other than that, it is pretty much what I expect from reading on this thread. The box sure is perky.
> 
> 4/1 post


:up:


----------



## b_scott

daveak said:


> This new box is rather clunky and I *can't get the cooperative scheduling to force a higher priority on to my S3 box, if it already has a show scheduled in the same slot. *I think I need to fix one of the global settings, but this is rather new to me....
> 
> Other than that, it is pretty much what I expect from reading on this thread. The box sure is perky.
> 
> 4/1 post


huh? There's no cooperative scheduling.


----------



## aaronwt

The only way cooperative scheduling would work is if the TiVo knows in advance which TiVo will be used by people. If both tuners are recording and a person wants to watch something live, they wouldn't be able to on that box. Unless it would automatically start recording on another box and have the capability to join both the recordings together.

Otherwise someone will cancel that recording to watch something live and another person in the household will not have their program recorded.


----------



## matguy

b_scott said:


> huh? There's no cooperative scheduling.


*** Pssst. It's April 1st. ***


----------



## b_scott

matguy said:


> *** Pssst. It's April 1st. ***


----------



## AbMagFab

b_scott said:


> I've got 6 years. So? I've used all the ones you've used except the Series 1.
> 
> Look up to that video posted, and watch/read the quotes. That's the director of marketing.


Okay, where in any history of Tivo have they upgraded the UI within a product line? Where have they done something to take advantage of new hardware (e.g. MCARDS)?

My point wasn't that I had Tivo's longer than someone, it was that I was using the history of Tivo to draw and support my conclusions.

Where in the history of Tivo do you have anything to support your conclusion?

(And if you've ever worked for a product company, you'd know that the director of marketing is the last person to believe...)


----------



## b_scott

things change. Obviously they wouldn't have upped the juice so much for a couple UI pages. Apple revamped in 1997.


----------



## jrpeterson5

AbMagFab said:


> Where have they done something to take advantage of new hardware (e.g. MCARDS)?


eSATA support for drive expansion would be one HUGE new hardware advantage that took place through a software update and not a hardware update.


----------



## AbMagFab

b_scott said:


> I'll bet he knows a little more than a consumer. Just a hunch.


What he knows is irrelevent. It's what he says that matters. And product marketing guys are the least credible of just about anyone.


----------



## macgyver

I think we've strayed far from 'first impressions'.


----------



## AbMagFab

macgyver said:


> I think we've strayed far from 'first impressions'.


Good point... however now it's about how much of the negative first impressions do we expect to be fixed?

My advice - wait for them to be fixed before buying one. And don't expect them to be fixed if they aren't when you buy it.

I'm off to try out an iPad this weekend... that looks like something that is in reasonably shape on release... and this coming from an anti-Mac guy...


----------



## Test

Got mine today, took the verizon fios cablecard out of my tivo hd and popped it right in to the new premiere and it works great. I can imagine the way they want to go with the HD interface. 

No complaints yet, but one question; what's that blue ball next to recordings in "My Shows"? I checked the FAQ but couldn't find it in there or the manual.


----------



## SoBayJake

Test said:


> No complaints yet, but one question; what's that blue ball next to recordings in "My Shows"? I checked the FAQ but couldn't find it in there or the manual.


Is it the download/transfer icon? Looks like the red "Record" icon, but blue?


----------



## innocentfreak

Test said:


> Got mine today, took the verizon fios cablecard out of my tivo hd and popped it right in to the new premiere and it works great. I can imagine the way they want to go with the HD interface.
> 
> No complaints yet, but one question; what's that blue ball next to recordings in "My Shows"? I checked the FAQ but couldn't find it in there or the manual.


Isnt that the remote shortcut telling you the blue button on the new remote jumps you to my shows on that screen? I havent seen it yet so I am guessing.


----------



## 1idjack

I like that the new remote has the channel up/down closer to the navigation control, because I never use it for channel changing, just page up/page down for menus and stuff. The buttons give a click sort of feel to them; I just hope it is as durable as the old one. And I wish they hadn't skipped the Tivo 1/Tivo 2 button.


----------



## comma splice

1idjack said:


> I like that the new remote has the channel up/down closer to the navigation control, because I never use it for channel changing, just page up/page down for menus and stuff. The buttons give a click sort of feel to them; I just hope it is as durable as the old one. And I wish they hadn't skipped the Tivo 1/Tivo 2 button.


Yes, it is a "clickier" clicker, I think. The buttons are easier to press, especially the directional pad.


----------



## steve614

AbMagFab said:


> Okay, where in any history of Tivo have they upgraded the UI within a product line?


Tivo introduced folders in the S2 line and later added folder play and folder delete to the S3 line.
Does that count?


----------



## Test

SoBayJake said:


> Is it the download/transfer icon? Looks like the red "Record" icon, but blue?


No, the new download/transfer is a blue circle similar to the light on the front of the unit. The new recording one is a red circle.

The blue ball shows up on all my shows no matter if they are recorded, downloaded or already watched.



innocentfreak said:


> Isnt that the remote shortcut telling you the blue button on the new remote jumps you to my shows on that screen? I havent seen it yet so I am guessing.


the blue remote button is the sort shortcut in my shows.

If I keep a recording until I delete the ball turns green.


----------



## angel35

Unseen Llama said:


> 14.1-01-3-746


I also have 14.1.01:up:


----------



## b_scott

anyone figure out to to make the progress bar quick clear yet? No one ever answered....


----------



## Dreamin

Hate to admit it... but overall i'm very happy with my Premiere.

* Really like the HD UI. It's well laid out; Operations cascade on the screen logically. And after the initial setup is done, most of the screens i use are in HD (My Shows / Finds shows)...

* And use LEFT ARROW to get back to the Tivo screen. The screen update is FAST (The discovery bar doesn't reload, etc.)... much faster than hitting the Tivo button.

* The "Browse TV & Movies" is way cooler than I thought it would be. And All those screens are HD.

* Really like the TV in the corner. I was always jealousy of the Cable DVRs for this one feature.

* Confirmations, etc. opening in a sub-window is nice... no more going to a different screen, confirming, then coming back.

* LOTS of little usability improvement all over the UI.

* Addition of 'Download manager' is really nice.

* S3 -> S4 xfers: A 1 hour OTA recording is taking ~15 min to xfer from S3 to S4 (Wired)









* The only thing i'm not too happy about is the OTA tuner reception... which i detailed in the Bug thread.


----------



## aaronwt

:up::up:My overall impression is that this box is excellent. I've set up three boxes so far with a FiOS cable card in each(cable only). Each box took under one hour from the power cord plugin to finishing the Service update. Then when I checked the guide, it already had data on all the channels so I could setup Season Passes for the shows coming on tonight and tomorrow.
Everything so far has been noticeably faster than with the S3/TiVoHD boxes.

Setup is much faster, menus are faster, everything. So far this upgrade seems to have certainly been worth it.
I'm recording six things right now with the three boxes. Now I need to check out Netflix, Youtube and Amazon.:up::up:

Tomorrow I'll setup some boxes from OTA only to see how that goes.


----------



## innocentfreak

I was going to wait until tomorrow but you guys are going to make me set this up tonight aren't you lol.


----------



## mvnuenen

After all the *****ing and complaining in this thread I was fearing the arrival of the Premiere XL. I just finished the initial - pre-CableCard- setup and I LOVE everything about the Premiere. I am currently a S3 user and I am freaking HAPPY I made the upgrade. Everything feels just RIGHT. Even the HDUI is snappy.
I don't know what the previous reviewers went through, and I feel for them, but as far as I am concerned: I'm a HAPPY camper!


----------



## jmpage2

mvnuenen said:


> After all the *****ing and complaining in this thread I was fearing the arrival of the Premiere XL. I just finished the initial - pre-CableCard- setup and I LOVE everything about the Premiere. I am currently a S3 user and I am freaking HAPPY I made the upgrade. Everything feels just RIGHT. Even the HDUI is snappy.
> I don't know what the previous reviewers went through, and I feel for them, but as far as I am concerned: I'm a HAPPY camper!


You have a "snappy" HDUI? Maybe you can make a video and post it to Youtube. We've seen tons of review videos and the HDUI is anything but "snappy".


----------



## innocentfreak

I decided to hook one XL up and I will update this post as I get this up and running.

*My Impressions*
I was disappointed to see no component cables and only VGA. I never bothered to look, but assumed they would include them like they did on the TiVo HD. Oh well not a big deal just caught me off-guard a little.

*The Remote*
I know change is good, but this remote is going to take getting used to. It feels fatter though I don't think it is. I do miss the weight of the TiVo HD remote, but again this is personal preference.

The button layout will be my big issue. I don't use the thumbs as much as I use the volume and channel buttons so the remote doesn't feel as comfortable since the thumbs are where the volume and channel buttons used to be. I find the older remote a perfect balance since the weight is in the palm and the volume is at your thumb. On the new remote the weight is concentrated more at the back since the batteries are side by side instead of in a row. This plus the volume button and channel button being farther up makes the remote a little uncomfortable if that is where you normally have your thumb which is especially true when hitting select which is now in the middle of the dial instead of below it.

I see what they were trying to do though. They went with larger buttons so your thumb now rests on the play controls if you hold it the same way you hold the TiVo HD remote at least based off the way you hold it. Normally I wouldn't pay attention to the remote as much, but as loved as the peanut is it deserves the attention.


----------



## comma splice

brasscat said:


> ... The new remote: I weighed the old and new. The old remote is 5.6oz and the new one is 5.5oz (both with batteries). ...





innocentfreak said:


> ... I do miss the weight of the TiVo HD remote, but again this is personal preference. ...


If they're so close in weight as brasscat suggests, I wonder why the new one feels lighter? Just different placement of the weight?


----------



## innocentfreak

Yeah my guess would be the battery placement. Unlike on the older remote where the batteries were from the back to about a little over halfway on the remote, the new remote the batteries are side by side at the very back. As a result the back of the remote feels solid but the front feels pretty hollow. I think also the shiny plastic gives it more of a lightweight feel also.


----------



## mvnuenen

jmpage2 said:


> You have a "snappy" HDUI? Maybe you can make a video and post it to Youtube. We've seen tons of review videos and the HDUI is anything but "snappy".


Yup, I've seen those same review videos and had my worries before the XL arrival as well. Not sure if it has anything to do with bandwidth -or pre-CC install- but mine is SNAPPY

Oh, who is the "we" you are talking about? You, yourself and yours truly? Or is it me who is snappy now?


----------



## jdgarrido

Tivo has a service update to 14.1-01-3-748 and its snappy and not like the preview videos. I think the first update has come out and I enjoyed playing with the search and the menus tonight. :up::up:


----------



## Atomic Buffalo

I paused a channel, hit Tivo to tweak some Settings, came out, and not only was the channel not paused, the buffer was gone. INEXCUSABLE. I bought a Tivo because my Tivos were always buffering. This Tivo just FAILED.

And the fancy HD menu search function couldn't find The Pacific on HBO. And what is all this crap it's listing? And who taught this thing to sort? So I switched to Classic menus, and classic Search by Title found it easy peasy.

I'm extremely disinclined to switch back. Fail. Fail fail fail.


----------



## David3000

I upgraded an HD and HDXL to two Premiere XLs. I have FIOS in NY. Set up was simple and fast. No cable card issues. When I order the premieres the tivo tech guy told me I could just pop the cablecards in and the new boxes will recognize them immediately. No new pairing required; he was right. I was completely set up in about an hour. I love the new interface - though it does take a little getting used to.

I have to admit I was a bit worried after reading the posts here, but overall I'm very happy. Phweeeew, my wife would have killed me if I screwed this one up. She loves tivo and was more than satisfied with the previous boxes we had.


----------



## jmpage2

mvnuenen said:


> Yup, I've seen those same review videos and had my worries before the XL arrival as well. Not sure if it has anything to do with bandwidth -or pre-CC install- but mine is SNAPPY
> 
> Oh, who is the "we" you are talking about? You, yourself and yours truly? Or is it me who is snappy now?


Like I said, make a video. "We", as in the TiVo Community Forums and Interweb Junkies in general have seen lots of review videos of the Premiere in which the HDUI interface lags greatly and is very slow to populate elements.

If you could make a video showing that yours does not do this it would be helpful.


----------



## bkdtv

Atomic Buffalo said:


> I paused a channel, hit Tivo to tweak some Settings, came out, and not only was the channel not paused, the buffer was gone. INEXCUSABLE. I bought a Tivo because my Tivos were always buffering. This Tivo just FAILED.


Sounds like a bug. Was this buffer issue by chance related to an analog channel?



Atomic Buffalo said:


> And the fancy HD menu search function couldn't find The Pacific on HBO. And what is all this crap it's listing? And who taught this thing to sort? So I switched to Classic menus, and classic Search by Title found it easy peasy.


As with all TiVos, it takes the box about 48 hours to index the guide data. Until that is done, the box will be slower than usual and you won't see complete results in search or browse TV.


----------



## KnordRW

Finally got my cable cards today, so I was finally able to use my XL tonight.

I'm an old-school TiVo lover from way back - first one was the Sony series 1 10 years ago, then moved on to DirecTV specifically because they had the TiVo. I sadly had to give it up when D* moved to MPEG4, but surprisingly didn't absolutely despise the HR20. Then we moved to a FiOS area and I gave their DVR a whirl....while I didn't *hate* it (and actually the Remote DVR functionality is amazing), it just didn't seem to be right. The tiny hard drive and lack of MRV from dvr to dvr didn't help. So the Premier was my chance to get back to a TiVo. And after all the negativity and bad reviews over the last week or so, I started to worry. But, less than 12 hrs into actually using it, the fears are all gone. Sure, the HDUI isn't done, and switching between the screens that are new to the ones that aren't is kinda annoying sometimes, but that'll change eventually. What did blow me away is how much BETTER my FiOS picture looks with the TiVo - much sharper and clearer than with the VZ stbs. Prior to the TiVo, I'd not seen a whole lot of difference between FiOS and DirecTV, but now - it's amazing the difference. Plus, I'd forgotten how much more natural the peanut remote feels and works in your hand compared to the other remotes. Sure, I'm still looking for the 'exit' and 'stop' buttons after getting used to using them on the other dvrs, but the placement of the commonly used buttons are night and day better.

So yeah, consider me a satisfied Premier owner.


----------



## scummybear

bkdtv said:


> As with all TiVos, it takes the box about 48 hours to index the guide data. Until that is done, the box will be slower than usual and you won't see complete results in search or browse TV.


No matter how many times you write it, people don't seem to pay attention and complain about it within 10 minutes of finishing setup.


----------



## brasscat

I agree with earlier comments that TiVo should have a way to back up your thumbs suggestions, wishlists, season passes, etc. I just turned on the TV and my TiVo loaded a ton of crap "suggestions." So the learning has to start all over again.

Sometimes the HUI does crawl. The more experienced I get with the menus the more I find myself trying to select an item not fully loaded yet (and I get the gong noise).

The new TiVo remote is only 1oz lighter, but I agree battery placement and change in plastic makes it seem a lot lighter. I'm OK with the glossy plastic remote, but I think the previous finish was more comfortable, and perhaps more durable. 

Someone mentioned a software update? I'm checking now....


----------



## naclone

brasscat said:


> I agree with earlier comments that TiVo should have a way to back up your thumbs suggestions, wishlists, season passes, etc. I just turned on the TV and my TiVo loaded a ton of crap "suggestions." So the learning has to start all over again.


this has always been my greatest disappointment with TiVo. when your primary point of difference over the competition is that TiVo "gets to know you", not supporting the transfer of that knowledge from box to box seems like a massive oversight. it's literally the foundation of the consumer's relationship with the brand and the subject of one of their long-standing ad campaigns and yet they don't think enough of it to actually make it something that can endure our relationship with the product. when i get a new computer i can import the settings and preferences from my last one almost instantly. hell, even going from mac to pc you can carry over things like firefox bookmarks and settings. how this was never made a priority in the project cue i will never understand. every time i bring home a new box my wife is practically in tears at the thought of redoing all her channel and programming settings (we had problems with faulty refurb units and went through 3-4 boxes in a couple months). yep, that's right, TiVo has managed to make their unique selling proposition a barrier to entry. no small task, that.


----------



## mvnuenen

jmpage2 said:


> Like I said, make a video. "We", as in the TiVo Community Forums and Interweb Junkies in general have seen lots of review videos of the Premiere in which the HDUI interface lags greatly and is very slow to populate elements.
> 
> If you could make a video showing that yours does not do this it would be helpful.


Funny, I usually tend to be very helpful on boards like TCF, AVS, etc. Yet, your belittling tone annoys the crap out of me. Speak for yourself dude and don't hide behind the "we". How about you buy your own Premiere and then, and ONLY then, judge for the broader audience. Up till then take the posts here for what they are: opinions and individual user experiences. You have mine and do with it what it's worth (to you not much it seems). After the initial negative impressions from AbMagFab (who I actually regard highly for his help back in 2007), I was fearing the Premiere was going to be a huge disappointment. Well, it is not. Not at all.


----------



## digitalfirefly

My first impressions:

The box is sexy looking. I looked at my TivoHD and couldn't believe they actually designed such an ugly unit.

The HD menus look great. There's a slight delay when navigating. I can' stand switching from an HD menu to one of the old menus. The screen goes black, then you have these giant letters. I had no idea when I ordered the thing the UI wasn't completed. I hope they fix that soon.

Transferring shows between Tivos seems twice as fast.

I like the live window when navigating the menus. It'll be even better once all of the menus are redone.

I love the capacity meter.

The remote is great. Love the back lighting. I'm still getting used to the buttons. I am having issues getting it to turn on my TV every time I use it, but I may just need to try another code. People keep complaining about it being too light. My HD remote is 5.7 ounces. My new one is 5.9 ounces. Maybe they're complaining about the basic remote. I also have to get used to the swapped location of the volume and thumbs up and down.


----------



## b_scott

brasscat said:


> I just turned on the TV and my TiVo loaded a ton of crap "suggestions." So the learning has to start all over again.


agreed. I don't have a single child/family season pass, and it was recording stuff on Disney. WTF?


----------



## Noogie

b_scott said:


> agreed. I don't have a single child/family season pass, and it was recording stuff on Disney. WTF?


Maybe TiVo found a new revenue stream of pushing shows towards the top of suggestions if it can't find anything else based on your favorites/viewing habits?

Does anyone else have a comment regarding the "14.1-01-3-748" update made by jdgarrido? I'm holding off on buying two Premiere XL's until the HDUI performance problems are fixed.


----------



## b_scott

Noogie said:


> Maybe TiVo found a new revenue stream of pushing shows towards the top of suggestions if it can't find anything else based on your favorites/viewing habits?
> 
> Does anyone else have a comment regarding the "14.1-01-3-748" update made by jdgarrido? I'm holding off on buying two Premiere XL's until the HDUI performance problems are fixed.


I didn't know that was an "update" - I thought it came on my XL.

Performance is speeding up in the past day, now that it's done indexing I think. There are quirks that bug me still, but some things I really like. I wish you could turn off the ads if you wanted - only because my wife is annoyed by them and bugs ME about it.

I swore I was told there was a way to remove services from search (like Amazon and BB) if you don't want them. Is there?


----------



## 241705

mvnuenen said:


> ...I was fearing the Premiere was going to be a huge disappointment. Well, it is not. Not at all.


I agree. I set my new Premiere up late last night (had to run a network cable to the basement first ). Setup was as easy as with my TivoHD. Observed a little lag with some selections off the HD menus. but nothing overwhelming. Right now it is working great with only OTA viewing. Looking forward to getting my FiOS CableCards installed in a couple of weeks.


----------



## innocentfreak

b_scott said:


> I swore I was told there was a way to remove services from search (like Amazon and BB) if you don't want them. Is there?


You can. It is under settings. I forget where though. I found it last night.


----------



## b_scott

please post if you remember, thanks! I searched under settings, but considering all the menus are the old ones i figured nothing really changed.


----------



## LoneWolf15

So far, I only have one noteworthy comment (while I wait for my cable installer to bring the CableCARD this afternoon)

Tivo makes clear that the Premiere series does not support AT&T U-Verse. However, when I specify that my provider is "Cable" and enter in location information, I'm asked to select "Comcast" for my provider ---or, "AT&T U-Verse".

What's up with that?


----------



## DaveWhittle

b_scott said:


> I swore I was told there was a way to remove services from search (like Amazon and BB) if you don't want them. Is there?


TiVo Central > Messages & settings > Settings > Channels > Video Provider List


----------



## b_scott

thanks!


----------



## SullyND

LoneWolf15 said:


> What's up with that?


The S1/S2 would work with Uverse. They probably don't make a distinction at that point between the Series.


----------



## flaminiom

I got mine yesterday. Pretty much have it up and running. I haven't spent too much time on it because I spent a lot of my free time lastnight up the season passes. The actual setup was fine, but migration was a pain.

Wow, adding season passes is slow. So much clicking. Tivo really needs a Web or machine import/upgrade option. And also cut down on all those clicks. 

A few of the "wait" screens with the green circle were annoying. Switching between SD and HD menus is also annoying. It does seem generally slow, but as long as I can keep moving in the menus I don't care that much. I'm not too motivated to utilize the web content because I don't feel like searching out stuff through what feels a clunky process. 

Some cool stuff for sure, but I think first the HD menus need to be addressed. General speed improvement is also really needed. I think that Discovery bar needs to work better. Rather than wiping it each screen, maybe retain the images and more gracefully replace them with a transition. That alone would seem to really improve the user experience. It just kind of feels like dial-up modem browsing. 

Overall, I definitely could have waited, but it doesn't see horrible. Hopefully Tivo is working hard on updates. I'll reserve final judgment after some every-day usage.


----------



## aaronwt

All mine seem pretty quick with the Discovery bar. But maybe it's a little faster since I'm on FiOS.

So far *every* feature I've used with the four Premiers I've setup seem faster than with any of my S3/TiVoHD boxes.

I am so glad I decided to upgrade all my boxes. This has been worth it! I like the new boxes so much better. If I were to complain about anything, it would be the location of the cable card slot being on the back again. But since they reduced the depth and the card sticks out, it has to be in the back.


----------



## supersportsfan

Got mine yesterday and just opening the thing up...this should be fun. 

I have to hook up my premiere, but leave my old HD hooked up to transfer shows/finish watching flagged stuff that cant be transferred (so that I can hook my expander up to the premiere asap...) and switch SP's over...then I get to call Time Warner and beg them to pair my CC...this could go really smoothly, or become a nightmare...ill report back.


----------



## wmcbrine

flaminiom said:


> Wow, adding season passes is slow. So much clicking. Tivo really needs a Web or machine import/upgrade option. And also cut down on all those clicks.


I can help you with that:

Standard USB keyboards work on the Premiere!
Network-based TiVo remote for your computer (just add Python 2.x)


----------



## mvnuenen

aaronwt said:


> So far *every* feature I've used with the four Premiers I've setup seem faster than with any of my S3/TiVoHD boxes.


+1. Including (SVD) channel browsing. With the S3 the TV screen was always blinking a few times before the SVD channel came in; the Premiere zaps through them (now, this could also be due to the new M-card I have versus the 2 old S-cards... not sure...)


----------



## b_scott

Premiere seems to be a lot better with the HDCP since it's 1.3. Flipping tuners or from menu to Live TV seems to go faster. Also, fast forward X 1 is super smooth which is nice.


----------



## TrueTurbo

supersportsfan said:


> Got mine yesterday and just opening the thing up...this should be fun.
> 
> I have to hook up my premiere, but leave my old HD hooked up to transfer shows/finish watching flagged stuff that cant be transferred (so that I can hook my expander up to the premiere asap...) and switch SP's over...then I get to call Time Warner and beg them to pair my CC...this could go really smoothly, or become a nightmare...ill report back.


I'll be in exactly the same position today! My Premiere XL is 'out for delivery' on the UPS truck. I have around 40 hours of HD shows on my TiVo HD to watch, so I'm thinking of hooking up the Premiere XL beside the TiVo HD and transferring over as many shows as I can.

Obviously, my M-Card is currently in the TiVo HD and I want to transfer it over to the Premiere XL. Should I hook up the Premiere and go through setup WITHOUT the M-Card or immediately transfer the M-Card to the Premiere from the TiVo HD? If I move the card from the TiVo HD to the Premiere, can I still transfer the shows from the TiVo HD to the Premiere and will I be able to watch the shows on the TiVo HD that are copy protected WITHOUT a cable card installed?


----------



## mvnuenen

TrueTurbo said:


> Should I hook up the Premiere and go through setup WITHOUT the M-Card or immediately transfer the M-Card to the Premiere from the TiVo HD?


I would try to get all the Tivo updates before you try to get the CC working. Most likely you will have to do a repeat guided setup at least twice. If you dont have all the updates yet, this could be a looooong process. You dont want to do this while your cable company is on the other end of the phone trying to activate your card. Now, if the M-card will work immediately (w/o you having to call the cable company), and someone on here did report it worked, then you will save yourself ~ 30 min by placing the M-card in the Premiere immediately. Personally, I would just go with the first scenario...


----------



## b_scott

I put my M-Card in before I turned it on. Did guided setup once. Worked like a charm.


----------



## scummybear

I am hoping my m-card install goes smooth tomorrow. =)


----------



## Dubfire

My expectations are lower: I'm hoping my tech shows up with the right card. Smh


----------



## scummybear

Dubfire said:


> My expectations are lower: I'm hoping my tech shows up with the right card. Smh


lol. This is true. I actually posted that on another forum. But, apparently, comcast in my area only uses m-cards now according to the phone rep, so I guess I should hope he brings one at all. Because we all know how reliable those phone reps are!  hahaha


----------



## smak

How fast are people seeing the to-do list populate after guided setup? I'm at around 13 hours, and I still only see programs through 2 am Saturday, and on the sys info screen, it says guide data through that time.

Shouldn't I have gotten more than a day's worth of data by now?

-smak-


----------



## b_scott

smak said:


> How fast are people seeing the to-do list populate after guided setup? I'm at around 13 hours, and I still only see programs through 2 am Saturday, and on the sys info screen, it says guide data through that time.
> 
> Shouldn't I have gotten more than a day's worth of data by now?
> 
> -smak-


I forced connection 4-5 times just to be sure. Populated within a few hours.


----------



## scummybear

smak said:


> How fast are people seeing the to-do list populate after guided setup? I'm at around 13 hours, and I still only see programs through 2 am Saturday, and on the sys info screen, it says guide data through that time.
> 
> Shouldn't I have gotten more than a day's worth of data by now?
> 
> -smak-


I set mine up late last night and today it appears the guide data goes until 4/14.


----------



## b_scott

same. well, it said it has guide data till 4/14 but the "To Do" list only had things to 4/12, and spotty at that near the end. Never understood that.


----------



## supersportsfan

So, I have everything set up now, but no luck with the CC setup. 

I took mine out of my HD and popped it into my premiere. I called Time Warner, and after about 10 minutes, finally got into a cable card person. They asked me if an installer had been out and I *kinda* lied...I said yes...he DID come out 2 years ago when I first got the cards for my HD! 

I gave the lady the numbers she needed, and she claimed she sent the hit...no luck. I told them I would call back after I fooled around with some things, but again, no luck (all this was before going through guided setup). So, the lady said that she could have a tech come out today, which I begrudgingly said yes. She was probably doing something wrong and the installer will be able to do nothing different, but oh well. If anyone has suggestions, please feel free to give me some!

So, I just finished guided setup and got the update, so finally getting to fool around with this thing a little. My first impression...WOW! The classic UI FLIES (and indexing has not even been done yet!) I am impressed so far, but have barely scratched the surface.


----------



## TrueTurbo

As I sit here, waiting for my Premiere XL to arrive, I think I'm formulating a new plan! 

I have a TiVo HD and a Comcast DVR. I got the Comcast DVR for the extra 2 HD tuners and access to PPV & VOD. However, I never use PPV & VOD. All I use are the additional 2 tuners to record a few shows that overlap with my TiVo season passes. I hate the Comcast DVR software and find that I tend to let shows build up on it to the point of filling the tiny hard drive it has!

So, here's the new plan. I think I'm going to ditch the Comcast DVR and keep the TiVo HD. I'll get a 2nd M-Card for the Premiere XL. Then, through MRV, I'll be able to transfer the recordings from my TiVo HD to the Premiere XL. I won't have to switch between devices and I'll have more disk storage to play with, in total.


----------



## supersportsfan

Wow, I swear, these CSRs are so incompetent. 

The TW installer came in, walked up to my room, I turned it to the CC info screen, he called dispatched, checked the numbers, they had they CCid entered wrong...they corrected it, hit it, channels up, installer gone. He was here for 5 minutes...I better not get charged for that waste of a truckroll. At least it got done today, and I didn't have to wait a week for it, cause I would have been pissed.

Now to reenter my 75 season passes...OH JOY...


----------



## LoneWolf15

My CableCARD setup went well. I'm thankful, since the Comcast installer (who was a nice guy) told me that they "just didn't do many CableCARD installs"; he had had done three himself in the past couple of years (two Tivos that worked well, and one TV that didn't).

Since I've never had a Tivo-brand DVR before, I'm going to ask if my experience is normal here. I'm getting a kind of de-sync/re-sync when changing channels on the Tivo. I'm hooked up via HDMI cable. Sometimes I get a green flicker at the top of the screen when I do it, since the channel change seems a bit slow.

This also happens when menu-switching; in those cases I'm wondering if it has to do with switching resolutions (like going from a menu that's HD to one that isn't). Of course, I suppose that could be the case with the channel-switching too.

Scrolling through the menu options isn't instant, but it isn't super-sluggish either. It can probably be improved down the road, but it's definitely not a show-stopper.

I've just customized the channel lineup and am currently setting up season passes for my wife's favorite shows while she's away for a couple of days. The change in channel numbers caused by the digital package is going to drive her nuts for awhile. I'm going to need to decide whether we need a cable box as well to make sure the TV's channels are the same when we're not using the Tivo --or is it possible to watch live TV on the Tivo and still record two other shows? (I think not, but it doesn't hurt to ask).


----------



## jstevenson

supersportsfan said:


> Wow, I swear, these CSRs are so incompetent.
> 
> The TW installer came in, walked up to my room, I turned it to the CC info screen, he called dispatched, checked the numbers, they had they CCid entered wrong...they corrected it, hit it, channels up, installer gone. He was here for 5 minutes...I better not get charged for that waste of a truckroll. At least it got done today, and I didn't have to wait a week for it, cause I would have been pissed.
> 
> Now to reenter my 75 season passes...OH JOY...


Time Warner is at my house now moving the cable card from my Tivo HD to the Premiere. Weee. When I called, the conversation went like this.

"Yeah, I need to move my M-Stream Cable Card from my current TiVo HD to my new TiVo premiere. Can I talk to the folks responsibile for cable card activations?"

"Ok, so you have a new TiVo Series 3."

"No, it's a Series 4."

"What? Series 4? Let me look this up.......... <30 SECONDS> hmm, we don't have anything on that."

"Right, it's shipping today, you wouldn't. It needs a multi-stream card, I already have the one I want to use, can you guys just activate it over the phone?"

"Let me talk to my supervisor, putting you on hold"

<5 minutes>

"We looked into it, sorry we have to send a truck to do something like this."

"Ok."

"And the truck fee is $35"

"You're going to waive that fee."
/jedi hand wave
"I'm going to waive the fee."

Otherwise, digging the Tivo Premiere so far, much faster than the HD/Series 3, even on the HD menus at this point, and while still indexing. Will see how it is tonight once the Time Warner card is installed.


----------



## DaveWhittle

LoneWolf15 said:


> I'm getting a kind of de-sync/re-sync when changing channels on the Tivo. I'm hooked up via HDMI cable.


Yeah, sounds like video format is changing. Go into settings and select one video format, like 1080i. Should fix the problem.


----------



## smak

jstevenson said:


> "We looked into it, sorry we have to send a truck to do something like this."
> 
> "And the truck fee is $35"


Ya think these two things have something to do with each other? 

-smak-


----------



## jstevenson

smak said:


> Ya think these two things have something to do with each other?
> 
> -smak-


Sure they do, which is why I told them that under no terms would I pay the fee when it is their equipment, that I pay for on a monthly basis, and when it's something I could handle at home on my own.


----------



## MichaelJHuman

I got my Premiere this week, and got the CC installed today.

So far...

The good -

* Audio glitches (between the Yamaha and HD) seems to be mostly gone
* The interface is (so far) not a dog like some people were saying
* On some GUI screens, it puts the picture into a PIP, nice
* The zoom mode seems to be improved over the Series 3 and HD (the old zoom mode looked visably worse to me, such as when used for Turner Classic Movies)

The Bad -

* Audio is lost when TV is powered off. This did not happen with the Series 3! It was lost with the HD. Too bad they could not make this work right


----------



## jstevenson

Woooooow. So the TWC calls my wife at 2:33, says he'll be there in 20 minutes.

An hour later, no site of him, wife is not happy. 20 minutes later, she sees his truck.

So 45 minutes goes by, wife calls me - he can't get it to work. Plugged the card in, but premiums and HD tier aren't showing up, he's been restarting it, testing line strength, etc. etc. Now he's calling his buddy (instead of dispatch).

I'm like "did he phone it in to re-activate it?" 

Wife: "I don't think he's called anyone since he's been here until now."

Me: *smacks head* "Tell him to call it in for activation."

10 minutes later, wife calls back, it works just fine now and he's gone. Just needed to re-activate it.

Why did I need a truck for this when I know the procedures better than their techs?!?!


----------



## riekl

digitalfirefly said:


> I love the capacity meter.


Maybe I will have more luck with you, everyone I have asked about this never responds. What possible situation is a capacity meter of any value in a Tivo ? I really want to understand why anyones Tivo would ever, not be at 100% capacity ?


----------



## dewd2

MichaelJHuman said:


> I got my Premiere this week, and got the CC installed today.
> 
> ...
> 
> The Bad -
> 
> * Audio is lost when TV is powered off. This did not happen with the Series 3! It was lost with the HD. Too bad they could not make this work right


That's pretty common with HDMI. If part of the chain is broken, the whole thing breaks down. I use a TOSLink cable for my sound to my AVR and HDMI to the TV. This way I don't lose sound with the TV off and I can watch TV with the AVR off.


----------



## supersportsfan

riekl said:


> Maybe I will have more luck with you, everyone I have asked about this never responds. What possible situation is a capacity meter of any value in a Tivo ? I really want to understand why anyones Tivo would ever, not be at 100% capacity ?


Mine is never at 100%. I don't use suggestions. They never record anything I would like watching and I always have way too much that I record myself, let alone having other things record for me. I also HATE when TiVo fills up and automatically deletes stuff...especially when I know something is gone, but I can't figure out what it is. (This is my personal TiVo in my room. My dad treats our second unit downstairs in the same fashion.)

Yes, I agree, the past few years the recently deleted folder has helped with the "free space indicator situation," so it was not particularly needed, but still a nice addition.

People bring this up all the time. The fact is, people use things in different ways. I and others like to know how much space we have so we can clear it out when it starts to get full. You and others like to always have it at full capacity. It just shows, there is no right way to use a TiVo.

By the way, just incase you think I am a "newbie" and have not figured out how to use a TiVo yet, I have had one since 2003, and am on my 4th unit.


----------



## riekl

supersportsfan said:


> Mine is never at 100%. I don't use suggestions. They never record anything I would like watching and I always have way too much that I record myself, let alone having other things record for me. I also HATE when TiVo fills up and automatically deletes stuff...especially when I know something is gone, but I can't figure out what it is. (This is my personal TiVo in my room. My dad treats our second unit downstairs in the same fashion.)
> 
> Yes, I agree, the past few years the recently deleted folder has helped with the "free space indicator situation," so it was not particularly needed, but still a nice addition.
> 
> People bring this up all the time. The fact is, people use things in different ways. I and others like to know how much space we have so we can clear it out when it starts to get full. You and others like to always have it at full capacity. It just shows, there is no right way to use a TiVo.
> 
> By the way, just incase you think I am a "newbie" and have not figured out how to use a TiVo yet, I have had one since 2003, and am on my 4th unit.


I appreciate the response, I suppose there could be some psychology component I just can't fathom why someone would want to waste time and mental energy cleaning things out when Tivo does a great job of it. If you happen to have a show you don't want erased you can set it to save that one and its a great deal less work then manually deleting every recording as the Tivo fills. I've had Tivo's since Jan of 2000 and don't think I have ever deleted a single thing from any Tivo nor known anyone that wanted to so its kind of a mystery to me


----------



## MichaelJHuman

dewd2 said:


> That's pretty common with HDMI. If part of the chain is broken, the whole thing breaks down. I use a TOSLink cable for my sound to my AVR and HDMI to the TV. This way I don't lose sound with the TV off and I can watch TV with the AVR off.


Worked fine on the Series 3...so I have to think they can make it work. I have read the HDMI 1.3 spec, and nothing in there tells me it can't be done 

I should note that the Series 3 was hooked to a Yamaha RX-V3900. And audio may not have worked with a powered off TV until I installed a Gefen HDMI detective. So the problem could be with the Yamaha RX-V3900/Z7 design ( I replaced the 3900 with the Z7, but it's practically the same thing, and uses much of the same circuitry and firmware.)


----------



## riekl

MichaelJHuman said:


> Worked fine on the Series 3...so I have to think they can make it work. I have read the HDMI 1.3 spec, and nothing in there tells me it can't be done


I think it was more an issue of Tivo S3 NOT complying with spec. Every single 1.3 HDMI device I have does this. My bluray player, Tivo, my Uverse box when I had it, my WD Live.


----------



## nrc

riekl said:


> Maybe I will have more luck with you, everyone I have asked about this never responds. What possible situation is a capacity meter of any value in a Tivo ? I really want to understand why anyones Tivo would ever, not be at 100% capacity ?


You know how sometimes people aren't really sick but the doctor writes a prescription anyway and then they miraculously feel better? 

By the way, can it be turned off?


----------



## LoneWolf15

DaveWhittle said:


> Yeah, sounds like video format is changing. Go into settings and select one video format, like 1080i. Should fix the problem.


Thanks, Dave. I thought I needed to select all the resolutions my TV supported. This takes care of it.

I know the debate is endless, but do you like 1080i or 720p better?


----------



## Atomic Buffalo

bkdtv said:


> Sounds like a bug. Was this buffer issue by chance related to an analog channel?


Nope. HD channel.



> As with all TiVos, it takes the box about 48 hours to index the guide data. Until that is done, the box will be slower than usual and you won't see complete results in search or browse TV.


So the indexing issue only affects the new search? Because classic search found it immediately.Bah.


----------



## tamaman

Received the S4 on wednesday. Set up and ran guided set up no problem (had the HD). Cox guy came today. He was knowledgeable and friendly. After installing and pairing card some HD channels (especially) ESPN HD were blocking and stuttering. I still had my cox dvr hooked up as I need to watch what's recorded on it before I happily give it up. The signal from the COX device was fine, not so from TiVo. Cox guy left after trying the other Mcard, checking signals etc. After giving me his number, said I should call TiVo. Hard to argue with him when the cox box works fine and the TiVo had issues. I did a manual update and called TiVo. While on hold I power cycled the TiVo. Upon reboot I got a message indicating the TiVo was installing an update. After it all came back up everything seems to be fine!

Tamaman
1 TiVoS4
1 TiVoHD (dead hard drive)
1 TiVo S2 DT
1 TiVo S2
1 Sony TiVo (retired)

UPDATE
Woke up this morning and had all the signal issues again!!!! Called TiVo and eventually we tried replacing the HDMI cable from the TiVo to the Amp- that seems to have worked. I used the HDMI cable that came with the new box- guess I should have known better. And I was so impressed that it came with an HDMI cable too!!!! Hopefully that is the end of my issues.


----------



## DaveWhittle

LoneWolf15 said:


> I know the debate is endless, but do you like 1080i or 720p better?


Depends on the the TV.

If you have a 720p TV, probably best to start with the native resolution. Mine is an odd-ball 788p Sony rear-projection, and 1080i looks best to me. Of course, YMMV.


----------



## Pilot135pd

I bought a new HD and a month later the Premiere came out. I got the Premiere for $199 plus 3 year warranty and taxes (all totaled $259). I'm not too impressed with the Premiere yet though. 

The main reason I bought it was because it would cost me $199 for the additional memory for the HD and it was $199 for the Premiere. Up to now I have 14 HD programs and it's showing 34% full and it's slower than the HD when switching from screen to screen. 

I also have to delete a show twice for it to actually delete off my shows list. Once when I finish watching the show and then it sends me back to the show and I have to delete it again. Not too impressed yet.


----------



## NotVeryWitty

riekl said:


> I appreciate the response, I suppose there could be some psychology component I just can't fathom why someone would want to waste time and mental energy cleaning things out when Tivo does a great job of it. If you happen to have a show you don't want erased you can set it to save that one and its a great deal less work then manually deleting every recording as the Tivo fills. I've had Tivo's since Jan of 2000 and don't think I have ever deleted a single thing from any Tivo nor known anyone that wanted to so its kind of a mystery to me


One reason I want a free space meter is because Tivo does a lousy job at cooperative scheduling on multiple Tivos (i.e., they don't do it at all). During football season, I schedule lots of games to record on a Sunday on one of my Tivo boxes (the one near my favorite chair). My wife also uses that Tivo to record shows, and gets upset if any of them get deleted because of my $%&*@! football games. If I had a good reason to believe that everything would be recorded that day without deleting anything that was already on that box, I wouldn't have to bother transferring some of her old shows to another box that still has room on it. Without the free-space meter, I need to spend my Sunday mornings making backup copies, so that She-who's-shows-must-not-be-deleted stays happy.

[So, do you consider that a "psychology component"?]


----------



## tamaman

Went to enter my season passes. HD menus were WAY too slow. Switched to Classic menu and it is VERY fast. Even faster when I hooked up a USB keyboard!

Tamaman


----------



## Pilot135pd

tamaman said:


> Went to enter my season passes. HD menus were WAY too slow. Switched to Classic menu and it is VERY fast. Even faster when I hooked up a USB keyboard!
> 
> Tamaman


I figured I'd give it a try. I switched it to the SD or Classic view and when I started to watch a show it locked up and did a restart on it's own. I really miss being able to watch a show or live tv while I look at my recorded shows list. Can't do that while in the classic view mode like I could when I used it in HD menus or with the DirecTV DVR. I think I'm going back to HD view just for that.


----------



## cranbers

Not impressed with new premiere. It is the buggiest slowest thing ever. Can someone explain why it takes so long to boot up when plugged in ? What is it doing ? Would we tolerate that if a pc or a cable company DVR took that long to boot up? Comcast motorola box takes no time at all. This thing does one thing, record tv shows. It's rediculous. I had to get a ups for the series 3, just so when the power blnks it doesnt take 10 minutes to watch a show again.

Does anyone know why this wasn't fixed in the 2010 box? I mean with the tivo hd, they can claim hardware or something but in todays world with multicore processors 6gb's of ram for 200 dollars, wtf?


----------



## kanan

Received the new premier yesterday....

* it hung for 6+ hrs during first run of guided setup, rebooting it and restarting setup worked.

* I have to wait a week for cable co to deliver m-card, attempting to use a single stream card w/ single tuner just confuses the box to no end - removing all cards lets me have access to at least the unencrypted channels while waiting. cable co wants to charge $30 to install the new card....no, they will not just mail it. sounds like a tivo tax, but I'm not fighting it.

* tivo's online database switched serial numbers of our old and new boxes, and shows account info for our old tivo using the new serial number, and vice versa. This completely confused amazon video on demand/etc. I confirmed this with the tivo customer service over the phone. They have escalated the issue and I'm supposed to call back on my own in two weeks to make sure they "fixed" it.

* more annoyingly, I can't seem to be able to go to https://tivoip/nowplaying.xml anymore -- yes, I did enable home networking apps and updated prefs online....but this could be a pain. I normally have to avoid using the tivo desktop app because my primary home workstation runs Linux which tivo does not support. Downloading manually worked fine on the tivo3.

* I'm not sure if the video quality being output is up to same level as old box..even though our tv is 1080p and uses a quality hdmi cable.

On the other hand, I know these are partly all teething bugs and the upgrade in disk space from the smallest tivo hd to the tivo premier xl is nice, plus we're hoping tivo eventually supports streaming from hulu/etc at some point down the road which would allow us to cancel the cable co bill. Tivo has been good to us the last 10+ years -- just hoping the new box gets as refined as the old ones.

I'm still of open mind on the new interface.....searching does work better and faster, and recommendations seem better, but some things still don't work like kidszone/etc.

I haven't figured out how to force the thing to reboot when I want....there is only a standby menu option? I reset the powerstrip this morning to force reboot.


----------



## Pilot135pd

cranbers said:


> Not impressed with new premiere. It is the buggiest slowest thing ever. Can someone explain why it takes so long to boot up when plugged in ? What is it doing ? Would we tolerate that if a pc or a cable company DVR took that long to boot up? Comcast motorola box takes no time at all. This thing does one thing, record tv shows. It's rediculous. I had to get a ups for the series 3, just so when the power blnks it doesnt take 10 minutes to watch a show again.
> 
> Does anyone know why this wasn't fixed in the 2010 box? I mean with the tivo hd, they can claim hardware or something but in todays world with multicore processors 6gb's of ram for 200 dollars, wtf?


I TOTALLY AGREE !!!!!!


----------



## jstevenson

I'm sort of surprised by the other impressions - because after a day of having it --- and now a few hours with cable card, I'm really happy.

The HD interface is faster than the S3... and the classic interface SCREAMS.

Still waiting for everything to index and populate, but I've had zero complaints thus far, besides the lack of LED and clock on the front. Really locked the clock especially.

Oh well. Progress, right?


----------



## aaronwt

cranbers said:


> Not impressed with new premiere. It is the buggiest slowest thing ever. Can someone explain why it takes so long to boot up when plugged in ? What is it doing ? Would we tolerate that if a pc or a cable company DVR took that long to boot up? Comcast motorola box takes no time at all. This thing does one thing, record tv shows. It's rediculous. I had to get a ups for the series 3, just so when the power blnks it doesnt take 10 minutes to watch a show again.
> 
> Does anyone know why this wasn't fixed in the 2010 box? I mean with the tivo hd, they can claim hardware or something but in todays world with multicore processors 6gb's of ram for 200 dollars, wtf?


A UPS should be a requirement for a DVR. I have all my electronics on a UPS.

I have no issue with the startup since the only time my TiVos reboot is if I move them and have to unplug it or there is an update. And that occurs early in the morning.


----------



## wmcbrine

kanan said:


> * more annoyingly, I can't seem to be able to go to https://tivoip/nowplaying.xml anymore


It definitely is still available on the Premiere. Although the correct address is https://tivoip/nowplaying/index.html (or just https://tivoip/).


----------



## Pilot135pd

jstevenson said:


> I'm sort of surprised by the other impressions - because after a day of having it --- and now a few hours with cable card, I'm really happy.
> 
> The HD interface is faster than the S3... and the classic interface SCREAMS.
> 
> Still waiting for everything to index and populate, but I've had zero complaints thus far, besides the lack of LED and clock on the front. Really locked the clock especially.
> 
> Oh well. Progress, right?


Which model are you comparing the Premiere with? My HD which was the previous model to the Premiere doesn't have a clock on the front and I have about 40 Season Passes on it and it's SLOOOWWW.


----------



## Pilot135pd

kanan said:


> * more annoyingly, I can't seem to be able to go to https://tivoip/nowplaying.xml anymore -- yes, I did enable home networking apps and updated prefs online....but this could be a pain.


Where did you enable these features? I cant find them on my HD or Premiere.


----------



## jstevenson

Pilot135pd said:


> Which model are you comparing the Premiere with? My HD which was the previous model to the Premiere doesn't have a clock on the front and I have about 40 Season Passes on it and it's SLOOOWWW.


I was using an S3 and an HD prior to this, the S3 moved to the bedroom and replaced the HD, the Premiere is now in the living room.


----------



## Pilot135pd

The S3 is newer than the HD? I thought the HD was the last one they offered before the Premiere. When I purchased my HD directly from Tivo this year they told me the HD was the latest.


----------



## steve614

The 'S3' is the original series 3 model that was meant for high end enthusiasts and early adopters. It has an OLED display on the front that tells time and displays what is being recorded. It was also THX certified and had a price tag to match. I think it's the best looking Tivo manufactured to date but I just couldn't fork over the $800 it cost at introduction.

The TivoHD was the second series 3 model made for the average joe.


----------



## mvnuenen

NotVeryWitty said:


> My wife also uses that Tivo to record shows, and gets upset if any of them get deleted because of my $%&*@! football games.
> 
> Without the free-space meter, I need to spend my Sunday mornings making backup copies, so that She-who's-shows-must-not-be-deleted stays happy


HA HA HA ~ So true!


----------



## msilano

tamaman said:


> Went to enter my season passes. HD menus were WAY too slow. Switched to Classic menu and it is VERY fast. Even faster when I hooked up a USB keyboard!
> 
> Tamaman


Exactly what I did. Helped me get my 30+ Season passes in at a rate of 30 seconds/SP rather than 2 minutes in HD.

-m


----------



## msilano

Received the Premiere on Thursday afternoon. 

Unboxed, plugged in, updates downloaded, all well and good. Wait for CableCard installation on Friday.

Really like the new interface now. Watched a couple of shows that were recorded on the S2. Seems to work ok.

Friday afternoon: TWC shows up right on time. installer is a pro with CableCards, is happily looking at the new Tivo. Then sees my HP MediaSmart Server. Had a nice discussion about that while the CC was downloading its updates.

Calls dispatch, initializes the CC, *bam* everything works. Now, time to redo the Season Passes.

Update: Really hate the new interface now. Seems to take about 2 minutes to search for and enter a SP. Switch back to SD menus, and wow, this is quick.

Only unexpected thing - after the switch to SD menus, the Premiere rebooted in the middle of recording a show. Not sure why, seemed a one-time thing, but will have to watch it.

Overall: Liking this so far, but would really like the HD interface to catch up. In the meantime, using the SD menus, and the wife says "Ok, so the Tivo is quicker. What else is new?"

Cheers,

-mike


----------



## brasscat

I've had my Premiere a few days now, and I still see this Season Pass bug: When trying to setup "The Office" the Find Shows results only displays the syndicated (local) channel of show, which is all reruns of past episodes. Unless I'm missing something, I had to manually channel-guide it to the day of the program, hit "record" and apply a Season Pass to that recording to force TiVo to record from the correct channel.


----------



## orangeboy

brasscat said:


> I've had my Premiere a few days now, and I still see this Season Pass bug: When trying to setup "The Office" the Find Shows results only displays the syndicated (local) channel of show, which is all reruns of past episodes. Unless I'm missing something, I had to manually channel-guide it to the day of the program, hit "record" and apply a Season Pass to that recording to force TiVo to record from the correct channel.


I know in at least the HDUI, when setting up the Season Pass through Search > ... > Get a Season Pass, in Options, there is the ability to select which channel you want the Season Pass to be associated with.


----------



## MichaelJHuman

riekl said:


> I think it was more an issue of Tivo S3 NOT complying with spec. Every single 1.3 HDMI device I have does this. My bluray player, Tivo, my Uverse box when I had it, my WD Live.


And yet, they add features like Rhapsody for music. They think you should have your TV on when playing music, I guess.

I still think it should work. Especially as I have a Gefen detective in the signal path, before the TV, which is supposed to fix these issues (like the issues I had with the S3 losing it's output format when the TV was power cycled.)


----------



## mvnuenen

After playing with the Premiere (with M-card installed now) for a few more days, additional big likes for me:

- The Discovery Bar is really appreciated. I don't watch that much TV and really don't keep up with what shows are new etc. Usually we get network announcements with the commercials and I can only imagine that most of us skip through those (and hence don't really notice them). As such, now I learn about the -actually useful- new stuff through the Discovery bar

- Netflix movies/shows suggested through the Discovery bar (or wherever) can now be viewed instantly (if available on Netflix Instant View of course), without first having to add them to your Instant View queue

I do miss the clock on the front display (which the S3 had) but oh well. At least the Premiere fits better with the rest of my hifi components looks (black with mostly blue LEDs)


----------



## mvnuenen

By the way, it would be nice if the OP (AbMagFab) could update the initial post with all of the first impressions (pros & cons) posted here. Funny thing is that I actually HAD canceled my pre-order based on what I had read in this forum. Turns out that Tivo shipped the unit afterall and, well, I'm glad they did.

*Disclosure*: I have absolutely NO affiliation with Tivo, its employees, and I do NOT own Tivo shares or could possibly gain any financial or other benefit from its well-faring.


----------



## dewd2

mvnuenen said:


> By the way, it would be nice if the OP (AbMagFab) could update the initial post with all of the first impressions (pros & cons) posted here. Funny thing is that I actually HAD canceled my pre-order based on what I had read in this forum. Turns out that Tivo shipped the unit afterall and, well, I'm glad they did.


If I based my buying decisions strictly on what I read on forums I would not have anything in my house. Apparently, everything I own is junk.


----------



## matguy

dewd2 said:


> ... Apparently, everything I own is junk.


I keep meaning to tell you that


----------



## nishiko

brasscat said:


> I had to manually channel-guide it to the day of the program, hit "record" and apply a Season Pass to that recording to force TiVo to record from the correct channel.


brasscat,

THANK YOU SO MUCH for this work around. It is logical and I should have thought of this, but didn't. I will give it a try. Even the Tivo rep didn't yet know/think of this work-around. What he DID tell me is Tivo is aware of this bug among many others, and will be pushing out a new update within the next couple weeks. Which in my mind means a month, but still, it's hopeful. He told me that if I run into other problems that I can figure out work-arounds too, it's probably just best to use those work-arounds and hold tight for a couple weeks as quite a bit should be improved soon.

I have mine directly wired to a 12/1.5 Mbps connection, and I must say, I'm quite impressed. AND I haven't had it crash or freeeze once yet, which I find more annoying than anything, so I'm especially excited about that.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your workaround. It is SUPER appreciated!


----------



## TVCricket

With all these problems, I sure am glad that I didn't get one. I can wait to see if the problems go away with updates. Sad that Tivo hyped this thing so much and delivered a half read product.


----------



## robm15

I scrapped up all my Best Buy reward certificates and ran off to pick up a TiVo Premiere from Best Buy. So far I must say I am impressed. I was leery after so many bad comments in this forum, but decided that I had a 30 day return policy, so why not. 

I have only had it running for about 1.5 hours, and I know things will improve. But what do I think? I think it is better than I expected based on others experiences, but slower than I hope it will be after the guide data is indexed. It isn't quick and snappy, but it isn't a slouch either. 

I love the main screen, if the rest of the screens are updated by TiVo to look that well then I will be a happy man!

I do not have my M-card yet, I plan to pick it up on Monday from the Xfinity office when I return the cable box I have now. I wish I could remove the M-card from the cable box, it is killing me to have it right there and not be able to use it. But since there is a tamper seal I figured I better leave it alone.

Since I already had a Series 2 with a 3 year contract, I decided to transfer that service to the Premiere, and in September when the contract is over, I'll get lifetime for (hopefully) $299. 

I don't really like the remote that comes with the Premiere, but it doesn't matter since I use a Harmony 880. I am glad I didn't have to reprogram the remote to work with the Premiere. Although I will need to teach it the ABCD buttons. No hurry though since they don't seem to do much with the one HD menu screen.

I'll share more experiences as I have them. Thank you all for the great advice I have picked up so far!


----------



## dewd2

TVCricket said:


> With all these problems, I sure am glad that I didn't get one. I can wait to see if the problems go away with updates. Sad that Tivo hyped this thing so much and delivered a half read product.


I would not let these negative comments stop you from getting one. Like we were making light of earlier, if you look, you will find unhappy users for just about anything.

The only time you should 'really' pay attention is when there is a problem that is almost universal. In this case, there is not - the menus are quirky, but not broken. I have not had major issues (only minor gripes).


----------



## Dubfire

Loving my Premiere thus far.


----------



## bkdtv

For those who haven't seen the Premiere in action, below are two HD videos I just uploaded to Youtube:

TiVo Premiere's Search (low bandwidth version)
TiVo Premiere's My Shows (low bandwidth version)


----------



## retinascan

nrc said:


> By the way, can it [the capacity meter] be turned off?


Yes, from "My Shows" press "A" (options), and you can turn off "Show available space".


----------



## davezatz

bkdtv said:


> For those who haven't seen the Premiere in action, below are two HD videos I just uploaded to Youtube:
> 
> TiVo Premiere's Search (low bandwidth version)
> TiVo Premiere's My Shows (low bandwidth version)


Dude, are those Breaking Bad spoilers on the search video?!


----------



## AbMagFab

mvnuenen said:


> By the way, it would be nice if the OP (AbMagFab) could update the initial post with all of the first impressions (pros & cons) posted here. Funny thing is that I actually HAD canceled my pre-order based on what I had read in this forum. Turns out that Tivo shipped the unit afterall and, well, I'm glad they did.
> 
> *Disclosure*: I have absolutely NO affiliation with Tivo, its employees, and I do NOT own Tivo shares or could possibly gain any financial or other benefit from its well-faring.


Would be happy to - what's missing? Nearly everyone agrees the HD interface is really nice, but really really slow.

I'm pretty sure I have the "cons" covered - what "pros" am I missing? (And not the every-little-minor-nuance-and-detail pros.)


----------



## mvnuenen

AbMagFab said:


> Would be happy to - what's missing? Nearly everyone agrees the HD interface is really nice, but really really slow.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I have the "cons" covered - what "pros" am I missing? (And not the every-little-minor-nuance-and-detail pros.)


I think quite a few items have been listed (e.g SDV improvements, immediate Netflix access, usefulness Discovery bar), but, I have come to the realization that it is very personal and likely there are also perception differences between upgrading from a HD to S4 versus S3 to S4. Also, the pros that I rate high are personal as I have SDV, Netflix and likely unique viewing habits. Not everybody will have those. Regarding the speed of the interface, I guess we can agree on that it is subjective as well (and may be not consistent across all users/units), and depending on the individual user it will be perceived somewhere between 'acceptable' to 'really, really slow'. We can, however, safely agree the speed sure is not impressive (yet).

I am not trying to change *your* recommendation, after all it is yours, I am saying that I perceive the Premiere quite differently than you do (and this thread seemed initially the reference 'first impressions' thread). Anyway, I think enough has been said in this thread and there are plenty of other "pro" threads, so whoever is interested has a variety of user experiences to draw from.


----------



## ldobson

I too read many of the negative reviews prior to recieving my Premiere and I have to say I was very pleasantly surprised to see that the performance issues reported with the HDUI were inflated and the speed at which I can browse the interface at least on my unit, seems acceptable.. and does not impede the use of the unit. Yes its not super fast, but it definately is not super slow either.


----------



## kilroy440

Just received my new Premiere box, been a Tivo'er since 1999. It's disappointing to see the lack of significant changes/improvements over the last decade.

The new "HD" UI in Premiere doesn't seem to actually show any more info on the screen. It simply uses the extra real-estate to show PIP and what look like ads on the top of the screen (probably Tivo is selling these ad spots to sponsors). 

There's a jarring mix of the old low-res UI mixed with the new UI layout that feels like they didn't finish the new UI (many menus have the old Tivo background, old layout, etc.). 

I'm a die-hard fan, but I find myself struggling with what's new and improved in Premiere over my TivoHD. I was hoping the menus would be faster, snappier, but it still feels slow and sluggish navigating. There's a 1-2 second pause when going from watching Live TV or a recording and back to the menu where PIP continues to play the program. This break in the audio is annoying. 

Maybe I'm spoiled by my iPhone but I expect at this point a smooth transition where what I'm watching shrinks into a PIP in the top screen and the menu smoothly appears with no break in audio/video.

Oh well.. what do you guys think?


----------



## cydeweyz

kilroy440 said:


> There's a jarring mix of the old low-res UI mixed with the new UI layout that feels like they didn't finish the new UI (many menus have the old Tivo background, old layout, etc.).


I think Tivo ran out of money and suckered us into buying a Tivo with a launch party as riddled with errors and technical difficulties as the unit itself. 
Then they suckered us into faux FatWallet Cashback, that changed the rules midstream.
This mix of old & new UI makes the Tivo Premiere SUPER frustrating. I'm giving it a week before I put my list of Irritants & Bugs up. Until then, know that I've had to pull the plug 3 times in 2 days to deal with lockups, then wait endlessly for the damn thing to boot up.
Never thought I'd even consider the 30 Day money back guarantee, but now...Tivo's days are numbered.


----------



## ascuser

Got my premiere & cablecard set up over the weekend and found one thing I'm not happy with at all. Or, at least, my dog isn't. He hates the new remote. I placed it down on the couch and he flinched away from it. When I looked at him, he started creeping back from it. I'm not sure if its the shiny black surface, or what, but he definately wants a feedback form to fill out to voice his opinion.


----------



## aaronwt

ascuser said:


> Got my premiere & cablecard set up over the weekend and found one thing I'm not happy with at all. Or, at least, my dog isn't. He hates the new remote. I placed it down on the couch and he flinched away from it. When I looked at him, he started creeping back from it. I'm not sure if its the shiny black surface, or what, but he definately wants a feedback form to fill out to voice his opinion.


Was the backlight on? The backlights in remotes sometimes emit a very high pitched tone. Which should be easily heard by dogs.


----------



## ascuser

aaronwt said:


> Was the backlight on? The backlights in remotes sometimes emit a very high pitched tone. Which should be easily heard by dogs.


No, I don't have the Glo remote. Thats good to know though; I have 4 dogs and had never heard of that.


----------



## greensky

kilroy440, I like how you describe the transitions are jarring. That's EXACTLY how I felt. I actually don't care for the top bar or picture-in-picture display at the top. I wish I could turn that off. I went back to the SD menus and they are snappier than my Series 2 menus.

I upgraded from a Series 2 so I'm glad I upgraded, although it's crashed once on me so I'm a bit worried about that.


----------



## orangeboy

greensky said:


> ...I actually don't care for the top bar or picture-in-picture display at the top. I wish I could turn that off....


Discovery Bar, no. Video Window, yes:

Messages & settings > Settings > Display > Video Window


----------



## SoBayJake

orangeboy said:


> Discovery Bar, no. Video Window, yes:
> 
> Messages & settings > Settings > Display > Video Window


You can "influence" the Discovery Bar too.
Messages & settings > Settings > Display > Improve Discovery Bar Recommendations

For now, I set "Partner Recommendations," "People," and "Advertising" to "Less."

I wish I could set "Advertising" to "None!"


----------



## ilh

Is the Premier XL remote a Glo remote? Because mine isn't glowing. Is there a trick to turn that on?


----------



## macgyver

ilh said:


> Is the Premier XL remote a Glo remote? Because mine isn't glowing. Is there a trick to turn that on?


It is, but it's a subtle glow. Tried it in the dark?


----------



## Hcour

Don't have the Premier but I watched the video posted here. Isn't the "Discovery Bar" in reality a series of ads for various tv shows? Is it always there in the NPL (or whatever they call the NPL now)? I would find that intrusive and annoying in the extreme. Can it be turned off?


----------



## aaronwt

Hcour said:


> Don't have the Premier but I watched the video posted here. Isn't the "Discovery Bar" in reality a series of ads for various tv shows? Is it always there in the NPL (or whatever they call the NPL now)? I would find that intrusive and annoying in the extreme. Can it be turned off?


I don't even notice it since the info I'm looking at is in the lower portion of the screen. I don't think it's intrusive at all.


----------



## Mark95841

Just bought a Premier did the downloads now the screen has been here for the last 15 minutes is that normal? I have a cable connection. "Programming the service update, may take up to an hour possibly longer".


----------



## scummybear

aaronwt said:


> I don't even notice it since the info I'm looking at is in the lower portion of the screen. I don't think it's intrusive at all.


My guess is people were just looking to complain about it. It is pictures for tivo tips, movies, tv shows, and video related in general. I honestly don't see what the big deal is.


----------



## scummybear

Mark95841 said:


> Just bought a Premier did the downloads now the screen has been here for the last 15 minutes is that normal? I have a cable connection. "Programming the service update, may take up to an hour possibly longer".


Yep.


----------



## Mark95841

Thanks for the reply. I guess I will have a Margarita while waiting.


----------



## gweempose

Mark95841 said:


> Thanks for the reply. I guess I will have a Margarita while waiting.


I like the way you think! :up:


----------



## b_scott

had my first lockup when I got home today. First, it didn't want to go to Settings, but it finally did. Then when I tried to back out of the Video Window Settings screen on the HDUI, it just gave me a green circle and sat there. The video window was playing, but no button presses responded. I know the Tivo was getting them, since the orange light displayed. Had to unplug.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

scummybear said:


> My guess is people were just looking to complain about it. It is pictures for tivo tips, movies, tv shows, and video related in general. I honestly don't see what the big deal is.


An opinion that's different from yours does not have to motivated by bad intentions, or "just something to complain about".


----------



## Dubfire

Mine froze yesterday and I had to restart. It had been working beautifully until then so I was worried and both disappointed. It happened right at 7PM eastern which by coincidence the first time it was set to record two shows at once. Had to unplug. Haven't had any problems with that since.<<<<fingers crossed>>>>


----------



## chabuchie

While I am still happy with the Premiere overall, I am a little disturbed by how slow it is acting today. I didn't notice a lot of green circles when I first set this up but now that I have all my season passes recording it seems like the unit is significantly slower. It's definitely slower than my Comcast DVR was. Here's hoping that this gets fixed down the line!


----------



## scummybear

DCIFRTHS said:


> An opinion that's different from yours does not have to motivated by bad intentions, or "just something to complain about".


Correct. :up: 
Which is why I never stated it was a fact. It is my opinion. I was simply agreeing with the poster before me and also giving _my opinion_.


----------



## brasscat

Everyone, please keep an eye out for slow performance when the TiVo is loaded with programs. My TiVo has gotten so progressively slow, I'm thinking I must have a defective unit... If you've had your box up and running for a week,, with at least 10 hrs of programming it, let us know if you notice a performance change. Thank you.


----------



## chabuchie

I got home tonight and realized that mine was running a lot slower than it had been for the first few days. It's nowhere near full but I worry about how slow it will be down the line. It truly had been "snappy" as others said above but now it's terribly sluggish.


----------



## Archipelagos

I too experienced a big slowdown today as well. I tried switching from a wireless bridge to the Tivo branded wireless g adapter hoping that would improve it, but to no avail. Now it takes forever for show information and the discover bar to load, but occasionally it works like it originally did. I'm only 7&#37; full on the XL.


----------



## Mark95841

Just bought the Premier today and it set up OK but if you have a TiVo HD or Series 3 I see no reason to upgrade to the Premier, totally underwhelming at the moment. If my HD had not started freezing up on me after having it for 3 years I would be marching this baby right back to the store. Nothing that new or better about it compared to my HD. Actually my HD seemed at bit more robust back when it was new. I can't run the Premier in HD mode it slows to a crawl. I have a pretty fast cable broadband and am running over the air only antenna.Plus the antenna reception is worse than with my HD, a weaker signal for some reason. Hope things get better. I read it has potential but as of right now, if you've got a working TiVo stay where you're at is my opinion after spending an evening with my new Premier.


----------



## digitalfirefly

brasscat said:


> Everyone, please keep an eye out for slow performance when the TiVo is loaded with programs. My TiVo has gotten so progressively slow, I'm thinking I must have a defective unit... If you've had your box up and running for a week,, with at least 10 hrs of programming it, let us know if you notice a performance change. Thank you.


Mine's at 12%, still runs ok.


----------



## robm15

chabuchie said:


> I got home tonight and realized that mine was running a lot slower than it had been for the first few days. It's nowhere near full but I worry about how slow it will be down the line. It truly had been "snappy" as others said above but now it's terribly sluggish.


Mine was sluggish today also. I got the Premiere on Saturday and installed the M-card last night, no problems. But before and after M-card install it was slow. Which leads me to a concern I have about the new interface on the Premiere. Since so much of it is web based, if for some reason the central servers (at TiVo?) are having trouble, will it universally affect all Premiere TiVo users?


----------



## RoyK

robm15 said:


> Mine was sluggish today also. I got the Premiere on Saturday and installed the M-card last night, no problems. But before and after M-card install it was slow. Which leads me to a concern I have about the new interface on the Premiere. Since so much of it is web based, if for some reason the central servers (at TiVo?) are having trouble, will it universally affect all Premiere TiVo users?


I'd think so.


----------



## mvnuenen

brasscat said:


> Everyone, please keep an eye out for slow performance when the TiVo is loaded with programs. My TiVo has gotten so progressively slow, I'm thinking I must have a defective unit... If you've had your box up and running for a week,, with at least 10 hrs of programming it, let us know if you notice a performance change. Thank you.


While my Premiere XL was very responsive initially, it has significantly become slower over time as well. I tell myself that it is still acceptable but barely... I am at 7%, have ~15 season passes, and have thumbed up/down ~25 shows. I am on a wireless 'n' bridge. I wonder/speculate if now that the Premiere starts to "learn" our viewing habits, perhaps it takes longer for the suggestions and Discovery bar to kick in, though also the Search function has become much slower


----------



## Noogie

Has anyone sniffed the wire of their home network to see what data is being sent/received from TiVo's servers while you are navigating the menus? Fairly trivial if you know what you are doing. Even if the data is encrypted it could yield useful information (amount of chatter and when the box sits & waits for data, etc).


----------



## brasscat

Rats. Maybe I can live with the SD menus a little longer...


----------



## aaronwt

All of mine are just as speedy as when I hooked them up last week. No issues with them switching between the HD and SD menus on three HD sets.


----------



## b_scott

put me in the camp of slowdown after a few days on my XL. lots of green circles constantly - even paging down on the My Shows list.


----------



## bkdtv

My Shows has always been slow. It is just more obvious with more recordings, since nothing is cached beyond the first page. Every time you page down, you hit the green circle. The circles become unbearable after you've got 30+ or 50+ recordings.

That's definitely something TiVo needs to address. Until they do, I've gone back to classic.


----------



## b_scott

i'm thinking about it. i can deal, even though it's annoying - but since i purchased this without wife consent, and she was cool with it after the fact, if I feel like she's too annoyed by the speed I'll switch back for now.


----------



## Henry3NYC

Hey guys. I know you are busy addressing some of the bugs users have discovered. But I wanted to also document a few suggestions in case you agree with any of them and find them simple to implement:


When creating a Season Pass in the HD screens, you now provide a place to specific the Channel. It would be great if you could also add an Any Channel option. This would be especially helpful, for example, for shows that run multiple HBO's networks.
Because the Season Pass Manager is SD, I cannot edit the Channel designation once it has been selected (because Channel is not in the SD options). The only way to change it right now is to cancel the Season Pass and re-add it.
Recording a program from the Guide takes me to an SD screen instead of the HD version.
Under Search/Search Options/Source, the options are listed as All, Record Only, or Watch Only. Perhaps Watch should become Watch/Download since this option includes Amazon downloads and Internet downloads which are watchable later, not just immediately. Perhaps even better would be to make this a check-many option with: Upcoming TV, Blockbuster, Amazon Video, Netflix, Rhapsody Music, Music Videos, YouTube, and Podcasts/Internet Videos or something like that.
Under Search/Search Options/Cost - Is Netflix considered Free since I subscribe? If not, that would be a nice option to have. A check many-option with Free, Free with Subscription, Rental, and Purchase. 
[And this applied to Premiere and Series3] When renaming Wish Lists (something helpful when the list contains multiple keywords), why bother with upper and lower case? Especially since there is no caps lock. Everything else in this area is all caps. It would just look cleaner to keep it all in all caps.


----------



## b_scott

seems like it take a few extra seconds to access MRV from either Tivo, my HD or my Premiere. It hangs for a couple seconds before displaying the list. You'd think, if anything, it'd be faster.


----------



## gweempose

It's becoming increasingly obvious that this software never should have seen the light of day outside the beta group.


----------



## aaronwt

I am enjoying the HD UI. I didn't necessarily buy the boxes for it, but I'm finding that they are much better than their SD counterparts. And I've had no issues when it switches between the HD UI and SD UI. It should really be nice when they complete the HD interface. I'm glad they decided to use part of it now instead of waiting for later.


----------



## robm15

aaronwt said:


> I am enjoying the HD UI. I didn't necessarily buy the boxes for it, but I'm finding that they are much better than their SD counterparts. And I've had no issues when it switches between the HD UI and SD UI. It should really be nice when they complete the HD interface. I'm glad they decided to use part of it now instead of waiting for later.


I concur. The past few days I have been going back and forth between the S3, and the S4 as I reenter my seasons passes, and I really enjoy the versatility of the S4 HD interface for entering the seasons passes. I can't wait until the whole user interface matches the HD menus.

Just as a disclaimer, I do not enjoy the time lags, but I do enjoy the look and feel of how they are designed to work.


----------



## AbMagFab

robm15 said:


> I concur. The past few days I have been going back and forth between the S3, and the S4 as I reenter my seasons passes, and I really enjoy the versatility of the S4 HD interface for entering the seasons passes. I can't wait until the whole user interface matches the HD menus.
> 
> Just as a disclaimer, I do not enjoy the time lags, but I do enjoy the look and feel of how they are designed to work.


Completely agree - love the look, but the sluggishness makes it pretty much unusable. So from a theoretical standpoint, great job!

From a reality standpoint, huge disappointment and useless purchase/upgrade, today.


----------



## DeWitt

I found the HD/SD split annoying at first. I was able to make it much better by selecting just 1080i as supported video. Without the resolution change/renegotiate with the TV via HDMI etc, it became much much better.


----------



## mvnuenen

My Premiere XL got a tad faster again compared to yesterday. Clearly some external factor(s) (Tivo servers?) is/are influencing it


----------



## brasscat

DeWitt said:


> I found the HD/SD split annoying at first. I was able to make it much better by selecting just 1080i as supported video. Without the resolution change/renegotiate with the TV via HDMI etc, it became much much better.


This helped for me as well... But I'm back to the SD menu option for now. I'll try the HD menus again on each subsequent update. Hopefully those will be quick in coming.


----------



## TrueTurbo

mvnuenen said:


> My Premiere XL got a tad faster again compared to yesterday. Clearly some external factor(s) (Tivo servers?) is/are influencing it


Since there is a lot of web content merged into the new TiVo interface, I think everyone will probably need to get used to slow downs from time to time. I suspect people with WiFi connections may experience more noticeable slow downs than those with ethernet connections.

I've only spent 4 days with my Premiere XL so far, but I'm loving it! I'm finding the audio and video output of the XL to be noticeably better than my TiVo HD. I love the HD menus and have no problem accepting the remaining SD menus. I look forward to them converting to full HD eventually, but the SD menus don't piss me off or ruin my TiVo experience.

I too have noticed the HD menus slow down occasionally, just like I notice web pages render slowly in my PC web browser sometimes. At no point does the response ever become unacceptable or unusable. I can accept occasional slow-downs if the content delivered is worth while. 

I decided to keep my TiVo HD and set it up for MRV. I transferred about 35 hours of HD programs from my TiVo HD to the XL since playback via the XL is better than via the HD. I haven't noticed any significant slow down with around 40 hours of shows sitting in my 'My Shows' list. By the way, I love the way the new 30 second advance function works! It's as smooth as silk. I love the way it shows how much time it's skipping forward when you click the button multiple times. I also love the way you can skip around the tick marks and jump to the end or beginning of a show by holding down the appropriate keys. 

The new software does have its quirks! Nothing that's a deal breaker or a major hindrance though. I'm expecting the software to evolve over time and I'm quite excited to see what TiVo can do with this platform.


----------



## b_scott

sure, but also remember that the GUI isn't downloading from the net every page. It's flash based but built into the system. It's not downloading your Find Shows page from the net.


----------



## RichB

I am very fond of the two pane guide where you can see many programs that are on on a given channel. 

Does this still exist in the HD interface?

Thanks,

- Rich


----------



## SoBayJake

RichB said:


> I am very fond of the two pane guide where you can see many programs that are on on a given channel.
> 
> Does this still exist in the HD interface?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> - Rich


The guide is not in HD yet. Nor is the channel banner.


----------



## RichB

SoBayJake said:


> The guide is not in HD yet. Nor is the channel banner.


OK. I guess time will tell.

Thanks,

Rich


----------



## brasscat

Just for the record, I'm liking the direction of where TiVo is heading too. But considering the released product, this model rollout appears rushed and didn't satisfy my expectations, especially when contrasting is with TiVo's Applesque "one box" announcement marketing campaign.

My Premiere's menus were so slow at times I would 

a) get *two* loading circles on the screen at once for loading left and right menu options
b) get a gong noise when trying to select an available menu that hadn't fully loaded yet (but displayed) 
c) had a spontaneous system reboot twicewhen watching a program
d) season pass manager missing info that's showing the guide (indexing completed too) 

Generally, when playing a recorded program, everything is fine and good, but when I have to use the HD GUI it slows down and gets in the way of the experience. I'm used to my old HD's performance, so I think it's logical to assume similar (ballpark) performance from the new model. This is like slowing down 2-3 times.

I understand web items take time to load, but in TiVo's case it's considerably slower than what my computer can do. Sometimes web content doesn't download at all, and the screen is left with a gaping empty spot and I wait expecting something to show, but doesn't.

My issues can be fully satisfied with future software updates. TiVo themselves said that their flash-based system will allow them to innovate and update faster than before. So we'll see how well they do for this model.

Even with these issues, I've encouraged my cousin to buy one (I'll be setting it up for him with SD menus for now). BUT, warlier today, I checked out the Moxi and I think if I had watched their promotional video first I would have suggested that system for him. If you want to still like your TiVo, I suggest do not research the Moxi DRV!

I've been using TiVo for a long time. Since Gen One base model. I'm a seasoned TiVo user and consider my opinion reasonable that TiVo just didn't deliver a product that's worthy of their reputation this time. That's not to say it's not usable, it certainly is. But the fun of TiVo was sucked out of this product. The good news is software changes can bring it all back again. And I'll hopeful and patient that the TiVo guys will deliver.


----------



## zob

I have been using the Premier XL for about a week. In comparison to my Series 3 it performs about the same. The menus are better and it has a few more features. The biggest thing I miss is the ODL on the outside of the TiVo telling me what is being recorded. I see very little requests for this feature but it is a very big plus for me. That is one of the biggest downfalls of this new recorder. When you build a new machine you should not remove features from it. In my opinion, I want enhancements not removals of features.

With future software upgrades I see this to be a very promising recorder. I see various complaints; some are founded, some are just utterly ridiculous. For those that are evaluating this recorder, look for many people complaining about the same thing, this will give you a direction to what is truly wrong with this recorder; rather than a few isolated incidences.


----------



## SoBayJake

zob said:


> I have been using the Premier XL for about a week. In comparison to my Series 3 it performs about the same. The menus are better and it has a few more features. The biggest thing I miss is the ODL on the outside of the TiVo telling me what is being recorded. I see very little requests for this feature but it is a very big plus for me. That is one of the biggest downfalls of this new recorder. When you build a new machine you should not remove features from it. In my opinion, I want enhancements not removals of features.


It was already removed in the TiVo HD, which is almost a Series 3. I sort of miss the clock, but I never watch anything in realtime, so I don't even know what's on when. It's a personal preference, but I'm fine without it.


----------



## Innerloop

I miss the clock, too. But the trend with electronics is to build them cheaper so they can reach a broader audience. I think they should have made the "XL" version with the front-display for folks willing to pay more for extra bells & whistles. 

But since it was removed on the TivoHD, I didn't expect it to show up again on the Premiere.


----------



## chabuchie

SoBayJake said:


> I sort of miss the clock, but I never watch anything in realtime, so I don't even know what's on when. It's a personal preference, but I'm fine without it.


I didn't realize how much I'd miss the clock. I keep looking to the TiVo to check the time and having to get out my cell phone in the middle of the night. Looks like I'll be buying a clock to sit on top of it in the near future.


----------



## TrueTurbo

Displays on AV equipment are useless to me. All my equipment sits in a tall cabinet beside the TV, enclosed by a door with a black mesh panel. The mesh allows IR commands to pass through but doesn't let you clearly see any displays behind it. If I want to see what time it is, I look at the clock on my wall.


----------



## Hcour

scummybear said:


> My guess is people were just looking to complain about it. It is pictures for tivo tips, movies, tv shows, and video related in general. I honestly don't see what the big deal is.


What a childish comment.

As I said, I don't have a Premier, so why am I looking to complain about something I don't own? You make the fanboi criticisms seems valid.

If you don't think this is about advertising, sorry, but you are naive. These are ads for tv shows, and they're certainly more intrusive and integrated in the interface than previously.


----------



## gweempose

Hcour said:


> These are ads for tv shows, and they're certainly more intrusive and integrated in the interface than previously.


I can't say I agree about the ads being intrusive. They are at the top of the screen, and you don't even have to pay attention to them if you don't want to. It's not like a huge pop-up appears in the middle of the screen. Do they take up space that could otherwise be used to display other information? Sure, but that doesn't necessarily make them intrusive.


----------



## scummybear

Hcour said:


> What a childish comment.
> 
> As I said, I don't have a Premier, so why am I looking to complain about something I don't own? You make the fanboi criticisms seems valid.
> 
> If you don't think this is about advertising, sorry, but you are naive. These are ads for tv shows, and they're certainly more intrusive and integrated in the interface than previously.


roflmao!

Well, considering I was not saying that they are not ads. Just that they are far less "intrusive" then people make them out to be. And if you don't even own one, how would you even know how "supposedly intrusive" they are? You can call it childish all you want. But complaining about something you don't even own yet is just part of the point, people that want to complain will find something to complain about. If you don't like my opinion, then feel free to add me to your ignore list. But I personally don't think the discovery bar is intrusive at all.

And since you seem to have the personality of my prementioned "looking for something to complain about" comment, I am sure you will find something wrong with this post as well. I am really looking forward to it! :up: Don't let me down!


----------



## LoneWolf15

I have now had my new Premiere XL for a week. I am really enjoying it, and am quite happy with the unit.

I'm using the new (partial) HD interface, but have set the Guide to Grid format instead of the split-view (whatever they call it). The Cablecard is working well. I've got about 16 season passes set up. It's great to move up to HD quality; my ReplayTV had a great interface, but not being able to record higher than 480p was becoming a bummer. Video and audio quality is good; I'm hooked up via HDMI to the TV (Panasonic 42" plasma).

The interface needs polish to speed it up some, and to replace the SD screens not there yet. However, I have had no issues with its operation. I had one early lockup that required a reboot during the first 24 hours, but it might have been my impatience --after that, the unit has been perfectly stable.

I miss the automatic commercial-skip of the Replay, but I know that's never coming back, and understand why. The 30-second skip works quite well; I just need to figure out how to lower the volume on the sound effect from pressing the button 3-4 times.

A third tuner would have been a welcome addition, to watch one channel while recording two others. Not a deal-breaker, but something to note in case Tivo looks to improve.

I didn't own an S3 or TivoHD, so I can't compare. It's very possible that if you own one of those, it's worth staying with one for awhile longer. However, if you own an S1, S2, cable DVR, or a ReplayTV, this box is a big step up. It didn't hurt that I was able to get an S1-lifetime transfer, though.


----------



## davezatz

Hcour said:


> If you don't think this is about advertising, sorry, but you are naive. These are ads for tv shows, and they're certainly more intrusive and integrated in the interface than previously.


Officially, only one unit is reserved for advertising. What shows up and how frequently can theoretically be tuned. Don't know if it's in full effect yet and/or if Thumbs Up/Down have any bearing. But I do prefer a visual presentation of shows over TiVo's suggestions or Guru Guides. (And anyone who follows my blog knows how I feel about advertising...)


----------



## bkdtv

davezatz said:


> Officially, only one unit is reserved for advertising. What shows up and how frequently can theoretically be tuned. Don't know if it's in full effect yet and/or if Thumbs Up/Down have any bearing. But I do prefer a visual presentation of shows over TiVo's suggestions or Guru Guides. (And anyone who follows my blog knows how I feel about advertising...)


Once TiVo made the decision to incorporate the video window (can be turned off), it had to find a way to use the adjacent space along the top of the screen. Many DVR screens don't mix well with a video window. The discovery bar was TiVo's solution to use that space.

My first complaint is the overzealous use of the the discovery bar. There are many screens where it makes a lot of sense, since TiVo couldn't effectively use the space adjacent to the video window. But I think there are also some screens that could take full advantage of that extra space. On those screens, the discovery bar occupies 20-30% of the screen unnecessarily.

My second complaint is that the discovery bar does nothing for those that don't use suggestions. I suspect (hope?) TiVo will make the discovery bar area useful for non-suggestions at some point. TiVo could enhance the bar to show the next 5-10 programs upcoming on the user's To Do List. Or they might add non-show "widget" uses, such as squares for the current weather, stocks, facebook updates, a twitter shortcut or twitter comments, etc. TiVo did tell reviewers that future updates would add further customization options for the discovery bar.


----------



## davezatz

bkdtv said:


> TiVo did tell reviewers that future updates would add further customization options for the discovery bar.


Yep, I was told we'd be able to pin things there like the Netflix or Pandora app.


----------



## DCleary

I haven't read through the forum but I'd guess it has the same complaints as mine. This thing is slow. I've had a couple of lockups requiring a hard restart.

There certainly is potential. I am shocked that they don't cache content - makes me wonder about the product. 

I ordered one because I needed a second box and the upgrade offer was good but I certainly wouldn't buy one otherwise.

No MRV for copy protected content is a lingering problem for TiVo. If FIOS can do it (and Cablevision soon) why can't TiVo?


----------



## jmpage2

DCleary said:


> I haven't read through the forum but I'd guess it has the same complaints as mine. This thing is slow. I've had a couple of lockups requiring a hard restart.
> 
> There certainly is potential. I am shocked that they don't cache content - makes me wonder about the product.
> 
> I ordered one because I needed a second box and the upgrade offer was good but I certainly wouldn't buy one otherwise.
> 
> No MRV for copy protected content is a lingering problem for TiVo. If FIOS can do it (and Cablevision soon) why can't TiVo?


The copy protection is not a Tivo issue, they are required to honor the copy protect byte if it is set by the network.

So, look at it as a network and provider issue. TiVo can't just choose to ignore the law and bypass it.

However, TiVo could do streaming which is totally legal since the show is not "copied" to a location.

Why TiVo has not yet implemented streaming is simply baffling. Apparently they spent all their money on lawyers and hookers instead of hiring more programmers.


----------



## Mike-Mike

i have no qualms about a company spending money on lawyers and hookers, I would click the thumbs up button on that


----------



## RichB

jmpage2 said:


> The copy protection is not a TiVo issue, they are required to honor the copy protect byte if it is set by the network.
> 
> So, look at it as a network and provider issue. TiVo can't just choose to ignore the law and bypass it.
> 
> However, TiVo could do streaming which is totally legal since the show is not "copied" to a location.
> 
> Why TiVo has not yet implemented streaming is simply baffling. Apparently they spent all their money on lawyers and hookers instead of hiring more programmers.


I am guessing the older units have problems with horse power.
I watched the TiVo add on my HD and the ad is very proud of the streaming capability. Too bad they can't stream to one another 

- Rich


----------



## stonewallers

I haven't even read all the review threads yet but just got my cablecard installed today and looking forward to playing around with the new tivo.

So far, it did seem a little slow. I wish I had time to optimize the menu settings (and get rid of the tivo beep), maybe tonight. A little worried that I already had to do a hard reboot, hopefully it was due to running without a cablecard.

My biggest complaint? Why on earth did they switch the chan vol buttons on the remote with the thumbs up-down buttons? It's a big pain after having tivos for years and pressing the same location on every remote I ever had. I'm not a big fan of the select button on the center of the direction pad instead of below, but this does make more sense so I'll get used to it.


----------



## b_scott

I agree. And I have used a Harmony instead for 3 years! But still, when using the new remote for a little bit it felt really wrong.


----------



## SoBayJake

stonewallers said:


> I haven't even read all the review threads yet but just got my cablecard installed today and looking forward to playing around with the new tivo.
> 
> So far, it did seem a little slow. I wish I had time to optimize the menu settings (and get rid of the tivo beep), maybe tonight. A little worried that I already had to do a hard reboot, hopefully it was due to running without a cablecard.
> 
> My biggest complaint? Why on earth did they switch the chan vol buttons on the remote with the thumbs up-down buttons? It's a big pain after having tivos for years and pressing the same location on every remote I ever had. I'm not a big fan of the select button on the center of the direction pad instead of below, but this does make more sense so I'll get used to it.


I've had the "new" remote for years with the Series 3. And I have the "old" remote upstairs with my TiVoHD. Every person is unique, but I subconsciously hit the correct button for volume, etc. regardless of the remote I use.

I think, given time, everyone can go back and forth without issue.


----------



## b_scott

Bones only recorded 19 minutes tonight and stopped. There were no power issues. XL.


----------



## flaminiom

We switched back to the old menus last night. It just go too annoying. We would hit delete, nothing would happen. Hit delete again, it would finally catch up and we would end up deleting two things. Slow menus are one thing, but unresponsiveness once the menu is loaded is another.

Hopefully things get better soon.


----------



## Bosox3

While I love my Premiere...I am having issues w/ the overall HD video quality.
The HD channels dont seem as Sharp or vibrant as my past Motorola dvr.
The channels just seem to look washed out....but I somewhat fixed that issue by changing the TV settings to Dynamic..rather than normal.


----------



## b_scott

Bosox3 said:


> While I love my Premiere...I am having issues w/ the overall HD video quality.
> The HD channels dont seem as Sharp or vibrant as my past Motorola dvr.
> The channels just seem to look washed out....but I somewhat fixed that issue by changing the TV settings to Dynamic..rather than normal.


means your Motorola had a lot of boosting of color/etc internally and the Tivo is giving a pure signal.


----------



## bkdtv

Bosox3 said:


> While I love my Premiere...I am having issues w/ the overall HD video quality.
> The HD channels dont seem as Sharp or vibrant as my past Motorola dvr.
> The channels just seem to look washed out....but I somewhat fixed that issue by changing the TV settings to Dynamic..rather than normal.


Did you verify that your Motorola was set to the correct settings, as discussed earlier?

On the Motorola box, turn the box off, then press MENU from its front panel within two seconds. Select and open ADDITIONAL HDMI SETTINGS and verify that HDMI/DVI MODE is set to HDMI and COLOR SPACE is set to 4:4:4.

If you have the color filters from a DVD calibration disk like AVIA or VIDEO ESSENTIALS, you might calibrate your display for the TiVo using HD test patterns.



> *If you don't have a Blu-ray player, calibrate your TV using test patterns on the TivoHD.*
> 
> If you don't have a Blu-ray player, you can use your TivoHD to calibrate the TV input used by the TiVo. If you already calibrated this input using a Blu-ray player, then such is unnecessary. Note most newer HDTVs save separate settings for each component and HDMI input. Some, like Pioneer, also save separate settings for each input and resolution.
> 
> 
> Download the *MP4 version* of the AVS HD 709 - Calibration files with the associated PDF documentation. Extract these MP4 calibration files into a folder on your computer.
> 
> From this point, there are two ways to transfer the MP4 test patterns to your TiVo.
> 
> If you have TiVo Desktop Plus
> 
> Open the *Basic Settings.mp4* file in the free mp4 FastStart program to apply qt-faststart metadata. This step is necessary in order for TiVo Desktop Plus 2.8.0 to transfer each video file to the DVR without any form of processing or conversion; this step is unnecessary if using pyTiVo or Streambaby.
> 
> In TiVo Desktop Plus, select Share Music, Photos, & Videos. Click the Videos tab and click "Add Video.." Create a new autotransfer folder and move the *Basic Settings.mp4* calibration file (from main menu folder) to that location. Within five minutes or so, the video should transfer to the TiVo; it will appear at the top of the Now Playing list.
> 
> _Note: You must create an autotransfer folder. Selecting the file from the PC folder at the bottom of the Now Playing list will alter the video._
> 
> Select and play the *Basic Settings.mp4* video that was transferred to your TiVo.
> 
> If you *don't* have TiVo Desktop Plus
> 
> Streambaby is a freeware alternative for those that don't have TiVo Desktop Plus. Download and extract the latest version Streambaby to a folder on your computer. If you use a Mac, download and install pyTiVoX with Streambaby.
> 
> Edit the streambaby.ini to reflect the video folder where you extracted the MP4 calibration files, as well as your TiVo.com username and password. Your streambaby.ini might look like something this:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> #
> # ./streambaby --help for more configuration file options
> #
> 
> dir.1=D:\My Documents\My TiVo Recordings
> dir.1.name=Saved Recordings
> dir.2=D:\My Documents\Test Patterns
> dir.2.name=Test Patterns
> #transcode.disable=true
> [email protected]
> tivo.password=berlusconi
> 
> Launch Streambaby under the TiVo menu -> Music, Photos, and Showcases -> Stream, Baby, Stream
> 
> Open the Main Menu and select *Basic Settings.mp4*. Select the option to play, or select "push" to transfer the video to your TiVo.
> 
> Follow the calibration instructions in the patterns documentation PDF.
> 
> In order to calibrate COLOR and TINT, you will need a blue filter, like that included with the TiVo Premiere XL and/or many DVD and Blu-ray calibration disks.
> 
> For specific calibration questions relating to these patterns, see the AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray, HD DVD, & MP4 Calibration files thread.


----------



## bkdtv

A member on another forum posted the Linux boot log for the Premiere.

I thought the second core might be enabled in Linux, but disabled in the Flash environment on which the new interface runs. That's not the case. The second core is completely disabled in software. Linux on the TiVo is set to boot up with only one core enabled.

The TiVo Premiere is also the first TiVo to use Linux 2.6.16. Past TiVos use 2.4.x.


----------



## NotVeryWitty

bkdtv said:


> The TiVo Premiere is also the first TiVo to use Linux 2.6.16. Past TiVos use 2.4.x.


Isn't the 2.6.x networking stack supposed to be a lot faster than 2.4.x? I wonder if that's partially why the Premiere can do MRV so much faster...


----------



## wmccain

I am reasonably happy with my new TiVo Premiere. I _was_ a bit surprised to see that they released it with the new HD UI only about 60%-75% finished. But then, I can understand - the hardware was "ready to ship". As a long-time software developer myself, I am well-aware that software development always lags behind the availability of the hardware.

In this case, TiVo finished converting the first two menu levels (which now appear side-by-side, similar to the long-standing TiVo guide format - and also very similar to the "split view" format that Apple is promoting for iPad applications). Beyond that, they appear to have converted somewhat less than half of the menus and screens at the third level and beyond. Of course, they favored initial HD UI support for the "most used" menus, such as "My shows" and "Find TV...".

I fully expect that, over the next 6-12 months, they will finish the job and we will see all menus and screens in the new HD UI format. In the meanwhile, I find the transitions between "old" and "new" formats to be somewhat awkward (a bit slow and with annoying "flashes").

I thought I would pen a note here for those folks who are still whining about the lack of an up-to-date DirecTiVo (which is still promised for "later this year"). In point of fact, the current non-TiVo DVRs from DirecTV are pretty good. They have long had an HD-oriented UI with a cameo "TV screen" in the upper-right corner.

In some respects, TiVo is playing "catch up" with the HD UI in the Premiere boxes - the user interface in the non-TiVo DirecTV DVRs is, in my personal opinion, _considerably better_ than the "old" TiVo UI. (This is not the case, of course, with the hideous DVRs supplied by most cable companies. I have no experience with Dish Network DVRs, so I cannot comment on them.)

Now, when TiVo plays "catch up", it is no surprise that they also go "above and beyond". There are many small details in the new Premiere HD UI that are not found in the DirecTV DVRs. For instance, when you search for an actor in the Premiere, you get a photo and some biographical data (birthdate and birthplace). I also particularly liked the fact that when editing the Channels list, the Premiere now displays a "long description" of the currently-selected channel - this, for me, is a huge improvement over the sometimes cryptic "call letter" acronyms used as channel names.

And while the non-TiVo DirecTV DVRs _do_ support DirecTV's own "On Demand" downloads over the Internet, they _don't_ support Amazon, Blockbuster, and Netflix. Since I am too cheap to pay for broadband downloads, I am not sure if this is really an advantage. But for many of you, it may well be ...


----------



## AbMagFab

wmccain said:


> I fully expect that, over the next 6-12 months, they will finish the job and we will see all menus and screens in the new HD UI format.


Why do you expect this? TiVo has a long history of not making any significant client-side changes once released. Unless there is a direct revenue implication - Rhapsody, Amazon, etc.

Haven't we all been burned too many times buying a CE product hoping it will deliver at some point in the future?

If you want the full HD UI, you *must* wait until Tivo releases it, if ever. Do not *expect* anything significant to change with the current Premiere.


----------



## jmpage2

AbMagFab said:


> Why do you expect this? TiVo has a long history of not making any significant client-side changes once released. Unless there is a direct revenue implication - Rhapsody, Amazon, etc.
> 
> Haven't we all been burned too many times buying a CE product hoping it will deliver at some point in the future?
> 
> If you want the full HD UI, you *must* wait until Tivo releases it, if ever. Do not *expect* anything significant to change with the current Premiere.


I couldn't agree more. Buying an incomplete product sends entirely the wrong message to a company and in fact encourages bolder and bolder moves like this.

Imagine if the TiVo 2 had been released in literally a 1/3 finished state. TiVo would have been run into the ground. Now with Premiere, we are somehow okay with it because we've come to accept that "no tech product ships complete"?

Plenty of products ship feature complete, even if they have some bugs. The thought that to ship feature complete means that it would never ship is laughable and probably what TiVo would like you to believe.

TiVo is under zero obligation to any buyers of Premiere to make the product any better than it is on the day you bought it.

They've already demonstrated their lack of respect for their customers by releasing a 1/2 done product and claiming that "inventing the DVR was just a warmup".


----------



## MickeS

AbMagFab said:


> Why do you expect this? TiVo has a long history of not making any significant client-side changes once released. Unless there is a direct revenue implication - Rhapsody, Amazon, etc.
> 
> Haven't we all been burned too many times buying a CE product hoping it will deliver at some point in the future?
> 
> If you want the full HD UI, you *must* wait until Tivo releases it, if ever. Do not *expect* anything significant to change with the current Premiere.


Well said. Like with ANY CE product, buy for what it DOES not for what marketing (or wishful thinking) hopes it will do at some unknown time in the future.


----------



## bkdtv

AbMagFab said:


> Why do you expect this? TiVo has a long history of not making any significant client-side changes once released.


TiVo told reviewer after reviewer that they were redoing the entire interface in HD. I was told they are working on it now. TiVo will lose any credibility it has with the media if they do not follow through.

As for the lack of UI changes in the past, that was one of the primary reasons for creating the new interface in Flash. Updating the old interface was not only resource intensive, but also risky given all the software dependencies associated with the older code. The new HD UI avoids most of that.​


----------



## jmpage2

bkdtv said:


> TiVo told reviewer after reviewer that they were redoing the entire interface in HD. I was told they are working on it now. TiVo will lose any credibility it has with the media if they do not follow through.
> 
> As for the lack of UI changes in the past, that was one of the primary reasons for creating the new interface in Flash. Updating the old interface was not only resource intensive, but also risky given all the software dependencies associated with the older code. The new HD UI avoids most of that.


This is highly debatable. Tech companies in particular have made all sorts of promises about future plans that have not followed through.... usually with excuses at a later date about why they had the issues keeping their word.

I don't have a score card but it seems to me that TiVo has either made promises or implied things about Series-2 and 3 that never happened.


----------



## bkdtv

jmpage2 said:


> I don't have a score card but it seems to me that TiVo has either made promises or implied things about Series-2 and 3 that never happened.


Can you cite any examples of claims or promises made post-release that never materialized?


----------



## TrueTurbo

jmpage2 said:


> This is highly debatable. Tech companies in particular have made all sorts of promises about future plans that have not followed through.... usually with excuses at a later date about why they had the issues keeping their word.
> 
> I don't have a score card but it seems to me that TiVo has either made promises or implied things about Series-2 and 3 that never happened.


I think the new Flash interface of the Series 4 is a game changer in ways neither you or I fully understand yet. I have way more faith and optimism than you and I'm not willing to judge or condemn TiVo on past performance and old platforms alone. They have made promises with the Series 4. I will give them time to deliver on those promises before I start slagging them off.

If they don't eventually deliver, yes, I'll be upset with them. I'll deal with the upset if it happens. Until then, I'm not going to lose any sleep over or fester any contempt towards TiVo. I'll make the best with what I've got and personally, I'm not finding any difficulty using or enjoying my Premiere XL.


----------



## AbMagFab

TrueTurbo said:


> I think the new Flash interface of the Series 4 is a game changer in ways neither you or I fully understand yet. I have way more faith and optimism than you and I'm not willing to judge or condemn TiVo on past performance and old platforms alone. They have made promises with the Series 4. I will give them time to deliver on those promises before I start slagging them off.
> 
> If they don't eventually deliver, yes, I'll be upset with them. I'll deal with the upset if it happens. Until then, I'm not going to lose any sleep over or fester any contempt towards TiVo. I'll make the best with what I've got and personally, I'm not finding any difficulty using or enjoying my Premiere XL.


So the point is - you have no reason to be upset with them if/when they don't deliver. There is no official promise anywhere of anything. There is no agreement they have with you, or anyone else that we know of, to change anything about the Premiere.

So yes, enjoy what you have, and don't expect anything to change. If they do change, that's a bonus.

But if you buy a Premiere, buy it *only* for what it has now, not what you think it might have in the future.


----------



## SoBayJake

Optimism or pessimism? I choose the former!


----------



## wmccain

AbMagFab said:


> Why do you expect this? TiVo has a long history of not making any significant client-side changes once released. Unless there is a direct revenue implication - Rhapsody, Amazon, etc.


As others have pointed out, TiVo _did_ "tell the press" that the entire UI was being re-done in the new format. And the released Premiere software really _smells_ like a "work in progress"  as opposed to a "finished product".

That was most certainly _not_ the case with the series one, two, and three. Yes, there were certain features not available at launch, most notably TTG and MRV in Series 3  but those features were disabled, not incomplete, and that was due to issues with CableLabs.

TiVo also promised, but never delivered, M-card support in the original Series 3 (it _was_ delivered in Series 3(b), aka TiVo HD). My guess is that this "renege" was not TiVo's fault, but due to the original Series 3 hardware having been built to a poorly-written specification from CableLabs.

As for a _published_ commitment to continue the development of the new UI, the closest that I could find is the following:


> Are all the current features available in this new UI?
>  At this point, the only features not available at launch are TiVo KidZone and Guru Guide functionality; however, KidZone and Guru Guides are available in SD menus on Premiere and Premiere XL.


True, that is *not* a _commitment_  but the _implication_ is clear.


----------



## alokkola

I am coming from Tivo Series 2 and after using the Premiere for 1 week now, here is my take on it...

I switched back to the SD UI within 2 days. 

I bought the Premiere because I got the lifetime for $200. I am NOT satisfied because marketing over-hyped this product. It is nothing RADICALLY different compared to TivoHD/Series 3. If TIVO had advertised it as a new Series 4 DVR with the same pricing structure, I would still have bought it without the hype but then I would have known it wasn't going to be RADICALLY DIFFERENT so I would have been satisfied.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

wmccain said:


> That was most certainly _not_ the case with the series one, two, and three.


 in fact series 3 was noted as being a hardware platform upgrade only - versus a software or interface upgrade.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

AbMagFab said:


> But if you buy a Premiere, buy it *only* for what it has now, not what you think it might have in the future.


thanks but I will use my own intelligence to decide this equation and not rely on posters still upset over the series 3 M-card issue and then run out the TiVo reps just as we might have gotten some comments on the future of the premiere


----------



## b_scott

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/12175947517
Software updates are coming, the first at the end of the month, another in May.


----------



## wmccain

SoBayJake said:


> Optimism or pessimism? I choose the former!


Me too!


----------



## wmccain

ZeoTiVo said:


> in fact series 3 was noted as being a hardware platform upgrade only - versus a software or interface upgrade.


Well, it's true that the UI did not change between series 2 and 3. (In fact, series 4 introduces the first significant re-write of the UI since the Philips TiVo that I bought when they first hit the market.)

But there was _considerable_ new software in the series 3, mainly in what is called the "hardware support" level. That includes support for CableCards (decryption), HDMI (encryption), new HD video codecs, _etc_. (Some of that work, such as the HDMI support, appeared originally in in the DirecTiVo model HR10-250.)


----------



## wmccain

alokkola said:


> I am NOT satisfied because marketing over-hyped this product.


There is no such thing as "over-hype" to a marketing person. They did their job, and they did it brilliantly.

As an engineer myself, I am inclined to cringe at what "sales-oriented" people do. But frankly, now that I have my own business, I wish I had some of TiVo's marketing people working for me ...


----------



## wmccain

Excerpt from CNET's writeup on their recent interview with TiVo CEO Tom Rogers:


> And as to the question of whether the TiVo Premiere could be a little better baked, Rogers insists it's a future platform that will only get better, and may, in the future, even include an app store.


----------



## jmpage2

wmccain said:


> Excerpt from CNET's writeup on their recent interview with TiVo CEO Tom Rogers:


Tom Rogers comments can be paraphrased as;

"This is our next gen platform, we will try to make it better"

and.

"You MAY get a better product someday via upgrade"

Notice the emphasis on MAY.

The CEO won't even acknowledge how rough around the edges this product is, which should go a long way towards telling people how upset he will be if it never lives up to the expectations they put on it at launch time.... he won't be upset one bit. They never "promised" anything. You got what you paid for.


----------



## wmccain

jmpage2 said:


> The CEO won't even acknowledge how rough around the edges this product is ...


Whaddya expect, he _is_ a *CEO*!!!

Seriously though, TiVo _does_ have a long record of improving their software after the hardware was released. There are many examples of functions that were added "later". KidZone and SwivelSearch come to mind ... and, if I recall correctly, with the initial release of Series 2 you could only share photos and music and (perhaps) an early version of TTG. Full TTG and MRV, at least in their current forms, came later, along with significantly enhanced versions of the Windows and Mac software apps.

At one time, they released an HME SDK and held a contest for apps by outside developers. I'm not entirely sure, but I think the Amazon, Blockbuster, Netflix, and YouTube interfaces are a result of that experiment (at least indirectly). Ironically, those HME apps are what TiVo's marketing machine is flogging with Premiere ("It's a movie box, it's a Web video box, it's a music box, ..."). None of those features are actually new with the Series 4, but they are better "talking points" for marketing than a "new HD UI" (which mainly appeals to "techies" like me).

The only aspect of the new UI that is important to the marketing department is the "discovery bar"  because it promotes the aforementioned video download apps. And you can be sure that TiVo "gets a cut" from those.

Am I trying to be negative? No, I am trying to be realistic. TiVo is an innovator, they have a much-better-than-average record for quality (in the long run), and it is in our best interest for them to survive. Remember that in 1999, both TiVo and ReplayTV came to market with exactly the same idea at the same time. Only one of them is still standing ...

TiVo's implementation was only slightly better than ReplayTV (and some people liked ReplayTV better) ... it was probably better marketing that saved TiVo, not better engineering.

So, unless you want to settle for a generic Motorola DVR from your cable company, you should applaud TiVo's "marketing decision" to release the Series 4 with half-finished software. Even if, like me, you have to "hold your nose" or "grit your teeth".


----------



## jmpage2

If that's enough to get you to bite, then okay, but it's not enough to get me to bite. We've never seen a "UI in progress" with promised later optimized versions of any apps come from TiVo.

Typically TiVo adds a feature, calls it good, and maybe patches the worst bugs out. That's simply their track record. If you can point to something as ambitious as this Premiere UI re-write that they've pulled off before I would love to hear about it.

The "TiVo is better so we must support them" argument just doesn't cut it any more. Moxi, Echostar and others have implemented streaming and have dramatically improved the quality of their DVR boxes. 

Even though it would pain me to have to depart from TiVo, it's bound to happen if they can't kick their business into high gear and do some real innovating.


----------



## wmccain

jmpage2 said:


> We've never seen a "UI in progress" with promised later optimized versions of any apps come from TiVo.


Yeah, but they've never re-designed and re-written the UI before either. It's a HUGE undertaking ... and the only other time that they did it was in the run-up to the release of the very first TiVo.

Frankly, the old TiVo UI was _way overdue_ for replacement. I was forced off of TiVo by DirecTV ... but their UI was better than TiVo's old UI _two years ago_. And DirecTV did then what TiVo is doing now ... they released "alpha test"-level code as a product. Firmware updates were downloaded _every week_ for an entire year. Finally, it was stable enough that the "public" updates are released only every couple of months. (Even so, DirecTV's MRV feature is still officially in "beta test" status.)

No pain, no gain.

Am I the only one who noticed that the "TiVo Search" on Series 3 (which replaced "SwivelSearch") was, in fact, an early "field test" of the new HD UI?


----------



## RichB

I decided to catch up and start watching Human Target downloads from Amazon.com. They looked better on the Premiere than on my TiVo HD.

Guess what, the premiere was outputting 1080P/24. What a nice surprise.

- Rich


----------



## innocentfreak

wmccain said:


> Am I the only one who noticed that the "TiVo Search" on Series 3 (which replaced "SwivelSearch") was, in fact, an early "field test" of the new HD UI?


No but many people didn't use it due to how slow it was early on. I heard they later fixed it, but I think many people never went back. Also if you were on a SD set you couldn't really use it since it doesn't display properly or letterbox the screen so it is the correct AR.

TiVo would have been better to release the Premiere as soon as the hardware was available which was rumored to be back in November and then get real feedback on the swivel search when it is on the hardware that will be expected to run it. This way they could have also released the new UI as an opt-in beta in January or so to get even more feedback while also ironing out these bugs.


----------



## wmcbrine

innocentfreak said:


> No but many people didn't use it due to how slow it was early on.


Also the opt-in requirement.

But the difference is, the "Beta" search was done in pure old-style HME, while the new HDUI is supposedly done in Flash, and hence is unportable back to the S3/HD, even though it started there. Even though it looks pretty much the same...


----------



## innocentfreak

I forgot about the opt-in portion since I tend to opt-in for everything.


----------



## b_scott

Margaret - VP User Experience via Twitter:

"We are working on the remaining screens, but we wanted to get the new hardware out and get feedback on the HDUI."


----------



## davezatz

b_scott said:


> "we wanted to get the new hardware out and get feedback on the HDUI."


I guess that confirms we're beta testers?


----------



## innocentfreak

While I somewhat agree with it, I don't mind. I would be curious to see, assuming they would admit it, if anything is changed off the screens that haven't released based off feedback. They are getting a larger pool of users testing the HDUI on the hardware that will run it and hopefully they get some valuable feedback out of it. 

Now do I think it would have been better to label it as beta, probably. At the same time it might have kept people from trying it. 

I just think TiVo is in somewhat of a lose lose situation. Hopefully in the end it doesn't hurt them.


----------



## Thuye

Hey Margaret, I have some feedback for ya. Tivo should be ashamed of duping their loyal customers into buying this piece of crap, and guess what; you got me to pop for two of these pieces of junk. NEVER AGAIN!!!


----------



## dlramsey

Thuye said:


> Hey Margaret, I have some feedback for ya. Tivo should be ashamed of duping their loyal customers into buying this piece of crap, and guess what; you got me to pop for two of these pieces of junk. NEVER AGAIN!!!


Charming.


----------



## daveak

Thuye said:


> Hey Margaret, I have some feedback for ya. Tivo should be ashamed of duping their loyal customers into buying this piece of crap, and guess what; you got me to pop for two of these pieces of junk. NEVER AGAIN!!!


Flame on, interesting first impression. So this TiVo is the worst out of any you have ever owned? It seems like a step up, not a very big step up, from the S3 series. I would strongly suggest taking advantage of the 30 day return window. Hopefully you still have your other TiVos to fall back on - and certainly Ebay right now has plenty of options to choose from (more than usual it seems) if you have already gotten rid of your working and older TiVos.


----------



## Dubfire

Happy to report that a day after the latest update (the one that went live on Friday night) - I have not had a single lock up and the HD menu is way faster to the point where it is more than acceptable. I had Tivo in the past with DirecTV and then when I upgraded to HD, I had to give up my Tivo with DTV. Been with comcast for about 8 months and just had it with their DVR. This is by far a much better experience and I'm happy to be back with Tivo. I'll continue to be patient asa they iron out the kinks.


----------



## brasscat

I've spent some time with the update and agree it's working a lot better. Still room for improvements in performance and caching, but it's good enough to get off the SD menus. I'm glad I didn't have to wait too long for this update, and look forward to other updates in the near future.


----------



## global_dev

I played around with 2 S3s for about 2-3 weeks (never having ever seen or used TiVo before) and just hooked up 2 S4s yesterday. IMO, the S4 is way quicker to navigate typical menus and the units themselves fit right in with my other A/V equipment (compared to the S3). My TV was too large to sit close enough to see the OLED screen and take advantage of it.

I haven't had a lock up yet. The TiVo mini-movie advertisement (why and how people love their TiVo) in the menu was great video quality but initially the sound was screechy, but a quick "out & back" resolved it. 

My only thoughts (as of right now) is the weird way the grid menu schedule updates using page up/down. On both the S3 and S4 it seems similar speed and action. The first/top (was last/bottom right before) channel schedule is loaded (since it is already loaded from previous screen) and from the bottom up the rest pop in after a moment. Very awkward and i enjoy surfing the guide with live tv.

Couldn't the info for previous or later channels be preloaded for smoother action? I can understand if your constantly paging up/down it may need to catch up, but a one time page shouldn't see this loading action. Is this something that users has been requested that I haven't seen in my TiVo research?


----------



## doogledb

I had a Tivo unit die so I ran to Best Buy to get the Premier (did not want to wait for Tivo to ship a unit and thus did not take advantage of the upgrade offer). Got it up and running with no trouble... For now here is what I have seen:

- Navigates at the same speed as my HD unit I replaced.
- I am not seeing any real extra features
- I like the smaller box
- One time I could not get out of Tivo Central. Had to reboot it. That is the only glitch I've seen so far.
- While I was at Best Buy buying Premier, I picked up a new Samsung BlueRay DVD Player. The Netflix gui is much better than Tivo's. You can acutally pick a scene to jump to. I was more thrilled with this than the Tivo


----------



## DaveWhittle

doogledb said:


> The Netflix gui is much better than Tivo's. You can acutally pick a scene to jump to. I was more thrilled with this than the Tivo


TiVo's Netflix player is serviceable, but Netflix in DVR integration is one of the main reasons why I got a new TiVo.

I hope TiVo is working on updating the Netflix player/UI soon - maybe for the next update (hint Margret  )?


----------



## orangeboy

Thuye said:


> Hey Margaret, I have some feedback for ya. Tivo should be ashamed of duping their loyal customers into buying this piece of crap, and guess what; you got me to pop for two of these pieces of junk. NEVER AGAIN!!!





DaveWhittle said:


> TiVo's Netflix player is serviceable, but Netflix in DVR integration is one of the main reasons why I got a new TiVo.
> 
> I hope TiVo is working on updating the Netflix player/UI soon - maybe for the next update (hint Margret  )?


I'm afraid the days are numbered for participation in this forum by the fine folks at TiVo, due to the lack of enforcement of the forum rules 1, 3, & 9... 

Quick responses to rule 7 is appreciated though! :up:


----------



## Thuye

dlramsey said:


> Charming.


Thank you!


----------



## cydeweyz

orangeboy said:


> I'm afraid the days are numbered for participation in this forum by the fine folks at TiVo, due to the lack of enforcement of the forum rules 1, 3, & 9...
> 
> Quick responses to rule 7 is appreciated though! :up:


So who/where are the Mods?


----------



## T1V0

cydeweyz said:


> So who/where are the Mods?


http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showgroups.php


----------



## nrc

There are moderators?


----------



## innocentfreak

Looks like Mike Lang and Dan203 is it for these forums, based off the link above.

With some of this foot traffic increasing, maybe they need some more mods.


----------



## Mike-Mike

today is my first day with my TPXL and I love it. I think I like the Roku better for Netflix, but they both could be better. But other than that I am really blown away with how much I like it. and my OTA reception is better than it was before. maybe i was lucky to get it after the "c" update, but I have had no problems at all.


----------



## innocentfreak

I am curious to see what the new Netflix interface eventually looks like. Then again I have more shows then I can keep up with these days.


----------



## TrueTurbo

innocentfreak said:


> I am curious to see what the new Netflix interface eventually looks like. Then again I have more shows then I can keep up with these days.


I'm curious too. My current player of choice for Netflix is the X-Box 360. I like the presentation and scanning through movies is much better than on a TiVo.


----------



## clemm

Kept freezing and I don't have the 15 minutes to spare everytime they tell me to re boot the thing. After the 3rd time in 4 hours I called and and arranged to send it back. To add insult to injury I had to pay to send it back. I owed it for about 24 hours, it was clearly defective, and I have to pay. Never again.


----------



## Richard Cranium

clemm said:


> Kept freezing and I don't have the 15 minutes to spare everytime they tell me to re boot the thing. After the 3rd time in 4 hours I called and and arranged to send it back. To add insult to injury I had to pay to send it back. I owed it for about 24 hours, it was clearly defective, and I have to pay. Never again.


We heard you the first 2 times. Since you hate the product and sent it back, Is there a reason you're still on this forum?

Just curious.


----------



## gweempose

TrueTurbo said:


> My current player of choice for Netflix is the X-Box 360. I like the presentation and scanning through movies is much better than on a TiVo.


I just used my Wii to stream Netflix for the first time last night, and I have to say I was pretty impressed by the interface. It makes the TiVo's interface look downright antiquated. If the Wii was HD capable, I doubt I would ever use the TiVo.


----------



## clemm

E. Norma Stitz said:


> We heard you the first 2 times. Since you hate the product and sent it back, Is there a reason you're still on this forum?
> 
> Just curious.


Yes, the reason I am still on this forum is to warn people who may be researching prior to buying. The software update did NOT fix the freezing problem and people need to know that.


----------



## Mike-Mike

TrueTurbo said:


> I'm curious too. My current player of choice for Netflix is the X-Box 360. I like the presentation and scanning through movies is much better than on a TiVo.


I have a full 500 in my IW, about 400 showing ready to watch... so unless there are some remote tricks I don't know about yet, navigating the queue is rough with TiVo... on my roku it's still complicated, but easier than the TiVo...

but TiVo does 1080i, whereas the Roku doesn't, and until my plasma comes in, I'm stuck with the 1080i, so I will keep using it for now, and just move the Roku to another tv


----------



## cranbers

gweempose said:


> I just used my Wii to stream Netflix for the first time last night, and I have to say I was pretty impressed by the interface. It makes the TiVo's interface look downright antiquated. If the Wii was HD capable, I doubt I would ever use the TiVo.


Netflix is everywhere, I have to admit though the best interface i've seen for it thus far is ps3's. It's fast and you have access to everything, not just what's in your queue.

I haven't tried it yet on my wii, but how many devices do you need to play netflix, haha.

In my home theatre setup alone:
samsung tv, htpc, tivo, ps3, and if i chose, the wii.

Tell me netflix isn't taking over the world. Now if we could just get new releases.........


----------



## cranbers

clemm said:


> Yes, the reason I am still on this forum is to warn people who may be researching prior to buying. The software update did NOT fix the freezing problem and people need to know that.


Ever think you may have an issue with your box's hardware? I have had my tivo premiere for a month now, no actual lockups, ever. This release or last.

Either im lucky or im not using it in the scenario where you have lockups. By lockups I mean the box completely locks up, no activity, frozen screen etc.

Only issue is where the select button wouldn't respond, but that seems to have been an issue with third party remote.

But I have been primarily using the sd interface until the new update. So im not sure what the deal is regarding stability. I just know its still extremely laggy, and that isnt satisfying.


----------



## ldobson

clemm said:


> Yes, the reason I am still on this forum is to warn people who may be researching prior to buying. The software update did NOT fix the freezing problem and people need to know that.


Go buy another unit, its obvious that if your claims are true, that you had a defective box, as many of us are not seeing issues after the last update.


----------



## Richard Cranium

clemm said:


> Yes, the reason I am still on this forum is to warn people who may be researching prior to buying. The software update did NOT fix the freezing problem and people need to know that.


Really? I only had my 2 boxes freeze once, within minutes of each other, after I updated the software.

Since then they have worked flawlessly. Just like they did before the software update.

Just saying, as long as we're doing PSA's, might as well give both sides of the story, right?


----------



## clemm

E. Norma Stitz said:


> Really? I only had my 2 boxes freeze once, within minutes of each other, after I updated the software.
> 
> Since then they have worked flawlessly. Just like they did before the software update.
> 
> Just saying, as long as we're doing PSA's, might as well give both sides of the story, right?


Absolutely, I am happy you have had success and you should tell people. However my experience was awful and people should know so that they can decide if they want to risk it. It seems like all the bugs aren't worked out.


----------



## aaronwt

clemm said:


> Yes, the reason I am still on this forum is to warn people who may be researching prior to buying. The software update did NOT fix the freezing problem and people need to know that.


No issues here. What freezing problem? I have seven units setup(one still in the box)
None of my units have this issue. So if it was widespread I would expect a few of mine to have freezing issues. Yet they don't have any.


----------



## clemm

aaronwt said:


> No issues here. What freezing problem? I have seven units setup(one still in the box)
> None of my units have this issue. So if it was widespread I would expect a few of mine to have freezing issues. Yet they don't have any.


According to Tivo, the problem, which was widespread, has been fixed via a software update. But not everyone has had satisfactory results.


----------



## aaronwt

clemm said:


> According to Tivo, the problem, which was widespread, has been fixed via a software update. But not everyone has had satisfactory results.


With any device there will be a percentage with some issues. the vast majority of the Premieres are not having freezing problems with the newest update.


----------



## SoBayJake

clemm said:


> According to Tivo, the problem, which was widespread, has been fixed via a software update. But not everyone has had satisfactory results.


You had one box fail and you make it sounds as if it affects any/all boxes. Simply not true.

You had ONE experience, but you post enough about it to make it seem you had dozens and dozens of failing boxes.


----------



## ldobson

clemm said:


> According to Tivo, the problem, which was widespread, has been fixed via a software update. But not everyone has had satisfactory results.


Yeah the mistake your making is that you have to keep the unit to have satisfactory results, I`m guessing had you not returned it, your issues would have been resolved by now, unless of course it was just a defective unit.


----------



## clemm

ldobson said:


> Yeah the mistake your making is that you have to keep the unit to have satisfactory results, I`m guessing had you not returned it, your issues would have been resolved by now, unless of course it was just a defective unit.


Perhaps. You could be right. I don't know why everyone is so defensive if I report a negative experience. I am just trying to make sure potential buyers have all the information. I assume they are adults and can make up their minds accordingly.


----------



## SoBayJake

clemm said:


> Perhaps. You could be right. I don't know why everyone is so defensive if I report a negative experience. I am just trying to make sure potential buyers have all the information. I assume they are adults and can make up their minds accordingly.


You are free to report a negative experience. Not report, report, report, report. That's all. Bashing isn't supposed to be tolerated, per the forum rules. Sure, I've had lockup issues. I think most have. Those that had defective units had them replaced.


----------



## dewd2

clemm said:


> Yes, the reason I am still on this forum is to warn people who may be researching prior to buying. The software update did NOT fix the freezing problem and people need to know that.


Actually, it DID fix the problem. At least the one we are talking about.

You gave the unit less than 24 hours and now you are an expert. Please....


----------



## clemm

I never claimed to be an expert. But Tivo support told me that my unit was freezing the same way as had been reported prior to the fix so that is what I am going by. Truthfully, I was going to post once on all relevant threads to warn potential buyers, but you guys gave my experience much more publicity than my one post would have done so thanks!


----------



## SoBayJake

clemm said:


> I never claimed to be an expert. But Tivo support told me that my unit was freezing the same way as had been reported prior to the fix so that is what I am going by. Truthfully, I was going to post once on all relevant threads to warn potential buyers, but you guys gave my experience much more publicity than my one post would have done so thanks!


But from what you have read on the forum, you know your's was a special case. Yes there were lockups before, and it appears 99.9% of them are gone. If you were still having lockups as frequently as you claim, there is more to the issue.


----------



## clemm

The issue is over for me. Buyers beware. Do your research.


----------



## dewd2

clemm said:


> I never claimed to be an expert. But Tivo support told me that my unit was freezing the same way as had been reported prior to the fix so that is what I am going by. Truthfully, I was going to post once on all relevant threads to warn potential buyers, but you guys gave my experience much more publicity than my one post would have done so thanks!


Well, what we (you) did was make it clear you are a troll. Whether that is true or not is no longer relevant. The appearance is there and nothing you say can now be taken seriously.

I'm not kidding, that is what it looks like to anyone reading your messages. Want to be affective? Say it once. You keep repeating yourself and you sound like a kid with a grudge or a motive.

No need to flame me, I will not respond. Take my advice how ever you want...


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## clemm

dewd2 said:


> Well, what we (you) did was make it clear you are a troll. Whether that is true or not is no longer relevant. The appearance is there and nothing you say can now be taken seriously.
> 
> I'm not kidding, that is what it looks like to anyone reading your messages. Want to be affective? Say it once. You keep repeating yourself and you sound like a kid with a grudge or a motive.
> 
> No need to flame me, I will not respond. Take my advice how ever you want...


I wouldn't flame you because you are entitled to your opinion. Same as me.


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## Richard Cranium

clemm said:


> The issue is over for me.


I seriously doubt that....


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## b_scott

got a second premiere to replace my HD in the bedroom. HOLY CRAP transfers are fast. I can't even watch a show halfway before the whole thing is transferred, and that's with FF commercials.


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## cranbers

That must have something to do with the new processor, file transfers do take a lot of horse power, especially when the unit is multitasking. Ever try using your premiere in the menu's while 2 recordings are going and your doing a network transfer (to a computer via tivo2go software). You haven't seen sluggishness until you experience that one. But yeah the transfer is a lot faster then series 3.


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## priced

Got everything transferred over from Series 3. It was tedious. Amazing to me that Tivo still doesn't have any kind of "clone" or "batch transfer" function. Or even Folder operations. Also, once I got everything transferred, I found out later that the "Keep until I Delete" status was not transferred along with the shows. Everything started changing to yellow exclamations (e.g. will be deleted within 24 hours). I would not have known this because the color of the icon post-transfer was just blue (not green). I'm sure someone will flame me that I should have known blue isn't green, but whatever. Tivo is supposed to be easy. Now I have to go back and visit EACH show and set it to Keep Until I Delete, since there doesn't appear to be any way to batch that operation, or even do it for entire folders. Sigh. Again, my impression of Premiere, in a word? TEDIOUS. Nothing seems faster. In fact even my wife who only uses it about 10% as much as I do, commented that it sure is slow to change screens and change channels and navigate with the remote.  About the only benefit I seem to have from this Premiere is the ability to use the iPad app... which I'll admit is pretty useful.


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