# lifetime vs the new all-in-plan



## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

aren the any differences other than price and name?


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## Xab (May 21, 2004)

ajwees41 said:


> aren the any differences other than price and name?


No. In their support article, it references how PLS (Product Lifetime Service) is now known as All-in.


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## thefisch (Jul 25, 2015)

There is a difference that you can't buy it when you purchase the equipment.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

thefisch said:


> There is a difference that you can't buy it when you purchase the equipment.


True, only if purchased from TiVo itself, you can get "all in" if purchased from say Amazon. (At $600 + tax)


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## thefisch (Jul 25, 2015)

I've read that too. Waiting to see how that plays out in practice.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

So basically Lifetime went from $500 to $600, and the boxes are $100 more expensive? This is getting completely insane. When I bought mine, the top of the line 4-tuner model was $900. Now the relatively base model Bolt is $900, and the top of the line Roamio is $1200? I suppose the Minis have gone down, so there's that. Still, this is getting pricey. I wonder how bad the eventual 6-tuner Bolts are going ot get?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Bigg said:


> eventual 6-tuner Bolts


I guess that means the current(/soon to be released) ones only have 4 tuners? I see from the Amazon info that they are OTA or cablecard again (but not both presumably?).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mattack said:


> I guess that means the current(/soon to be released) ones only have 4 tuners? I see from the Amazon info that they are OTA or cablecard again (but not both presumably?).


Correct. The soon-to-be-released Bolt models are really just upgrades for the previous 4-tuner OTA/CableCARD base Roamio model, in 500GB and 1TB storage versions -- though w/ beefier specs, Gigabit, MoCA 2.0, Wireless-AC, built-in Stream, and 4K video support for compatible streaming apps.

(And, right, one or the other, not a simultaneous mix of OTA & CableCARD.)


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

lessd said:


> True, only if purchased from TiVo itself, you can get "all in" if purchased from say Amazon. (At $600 + tax)


Are you sure about that? If new Tivos come with a built in one year plan, wouldn't that be on all Tivos and not dependent on where it was purchased?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

scandia101 said:


> Are you sure about that? If new Tivos come with a built in one year plan, wouldn't that be on all Tivos and not dependent on where it was purchased?


Yes, when you go to activate say an Amazon purchased TiVo Bolt you can pay nothing and get a year of free service or pay $599 for *All In*.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

lessd said:


> Yes, when you go to activate say an Amazon purchased TiVo Bolt you can pay nothing and get a year of free service or pay $599 for *All In*.


That's no different in any way than buying from tivo.com and then changing the plan.


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## abeagler (Sep 21, 2006)

I wonder if the name change is more about their handling of older models in the future? As we can see, they're looking to phase out series 1/2/3 models right now, no longer activating them. But, they can't cut off support for old models with lifetime because the word 'lifetime' suggests a level of commitment for a the life of the unit. "All In" may not be functionally any different in the present, but maybe it gives them more latitude to cut off support for old units in the future, without the implied commitment that goes with the word "lifetime".

Just my $0.02...


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

mattack said:


> I guess that means the current(/soon to be released) ones only have 4 tuners? *I see from the Amazon info that they are OTA or cablecard again (but not both presumably?)*.





krkaufman said:


> Correct. The soon-to-be-released Bolt models are really just upgrades for the previous 4-tuner OTA/CableCARD base Roamio model, in 500GB and 1TB storage versions -- though w/ beefier specs, Gigabit, MoCA 2.0, Wireless-AC, built-in Stream, and 4K video support for compatible streaming apps. * (And, right, one or the other, not a simultaneous mix of OTA & CableCARD.)*


Not quite true. I have OTA and cable running simultaneously on my base Roamio. I noticed a few channels that cable wasn't broadcasting on (eg: ch 9) and I set my ATSC modulator to that channel frequency and have my directv system being broadcast on it.

If you want to mix in an OTA channel or two and don't have or use a modulator, then you could get various notch filters to block out certain freqs from your cable and then inject your OTA antenna.

The trick is to run guided setup first for antenna and it will detect your TA and/or cablecard hooked up (which you want to do before running GS) and ask if you want to do antenna only, or antenna and cable. Just select both and off you go.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

scandia101 said:


> That's no different in any way than buying from tivo.com and then changing the plan.


Do you know that a TiVo purchased Bolt can have its plan changed before the year is up, and do you know even after the year is up you can still purchase *All in *? If so how do you know ?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

lessd said:


> Do you know that a TiVo purchased Bolt can have its plan changed before the year is up, and do you know even after the year is up you can still purchase *All in *? If so how do you know ?


From the TiVo service agreement. You can get to it on the Bolt page.

You would need to purchase the All In plan before the year is up. Otherwise they will automatically charge you another year of service. And that service is non-refundable according to the service agreement.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

HarperVision said:


> Not quite true. I have OTA and cable running simultaneously on my base Roamio. I noticed a few channels that cable wasn't broadcasting on (eg: ch 9) and I set my ATSC modulator to that channel frequency and have my directv system being broadcast on it.
> 
> If you want to mix in an OTA channel or two and don't have or use a modulator, then you could get various notch filters to block out certain freqs from your cable and then inject your OTA antenna.
> 
> The trick is to run guided setup first for antenna and it will detect your TA and/or cablecard hooked up (which you want to do before running GS) and ask if you want to do antenna only, or antenna and cable. Just select both and off you go.


are you sure the unused channel aren't being used by the digital cable signals(added channel space?


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

lessd said:


> Do you know that a TiVo purchased Bolt can have its plan changed before the year is up, and do you know even after the year is up you can still purchase *All in *? If so how do you know ?


Whether the plan can be changed isn't relevant. For the same price of the Bolt and the $600 All In plan you get a Tivo with ongoing service. As soon as you have a Bolt with the one year free annual plan, you can either (within 30 days) change the plan to All In or change the future plan to All In. The first year technically being an annual plan isn't relevant. For $400 you get the hardware and for $600 you get ongoing service. No matter where you buy it, the cost and service is the same.

Btw, how many amazon, or any non-tivo.com, purchased Bolts have you activated?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

scandia101 said:


> Whether the plan can be changed isn't relevant. For the same price of the Bolt and the $600 All In plan you get a Tivo with ongoing service. As soon as you have a Bolt with the one year free annual plan, you can either (within 30 days) change the plan to All In or change the future plan to All In. The first year technically being an annual plan isn't relevant. For $400 you get the hardware and for $600 you get ongoing service. No matter where you buy it, the cost and service is the same.
> 
> Btw, how many amazon, or any non-tivo.com, purchased Bolts have you activated?


Post #15 answered the question.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

lessd said:


> Post #15 answered the question.


I gave additional info
And that answer in 15 shows a policy that has been in effect for many years, so I don't get why you wouldn't understand it to begin with.

and you didn't answer my question

I'm guessing the answer is zero. That shows that the info you gave is speculation based on past policy.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

I just can't get over the fact that you seem to have been thinking that if you buy a tivo from tivo, you wouldn't ever be able to change the existing plan and get the all in plan for it.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

ajwees41 said:


> are you sure the unused channel aren't being used by the digital cable signals(added channel space?


Yes, I'm using the space for analog channel 9 (yes we still have analog lineups) which on Oceanic TWC here used to be Big Island TV, but they've moved that to channel 130 digital and the hole is still there. There were a couple others too. I initially hooked up the cable to my TV, did a channel scan and then went through and marked which ones had nothing on them, analog, digital or SDV. I know SDV can come and go, so that's why I made sure I used an empty channel in the analog spectrum.

It's going to be moot soon though because I picked up a UHF/VHF Diplexer that splits the bands and I'll hook the UHF side up to cable and the VHF side to my modulator and that will give me the option to use any channel between 2-13 without interference to my cable, melding them together perfectly.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Not quite true. I have OTA and cable running simultaneously on my base Roamio. I noticed a few channels that cable wasn't broadcasting on (eg: ch 9) and I set my ATSC modulator to that channel frequency and have my directv system being broadcast on it.


That won't work for most people in most places. Point is, having a TiVo that could do both at once would be a really good feature.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

scandia101 said:


> I gave additional info
> And that answer in 15 shows a policy that has been in effect for many years, so I don't get why you wouldn't understand it to begin with.
> 
> and you didn't answer my question
> ...


The new policy just started with the Bolt, I did not look it up, in post 15 aaronwt took the time to look up the new policy.

Your question about Amazon is not worth an answer as the new policy just went into effect and the Bolt will come out this Monday (some people have walked into Best Bye and gotten one early) hard for me to have gotten from Amazon already.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Bigg said:


> That won't work for most people in most places. Point is, having a TiVo that could do both at once would be a really good feature.


Oh, it works anywhere, that I can guarantee. It's all in the TiVo and how you set it up and if you're willing to give up any channels in your cable lineup for the OTA ones when using various filters.

I completely agree it would be a good feature though! It would make this much easier, that's for sure!


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Oh, it works anywhere, that I can guarantee. It's all in the TiVo and how you set it up and if you're willing to give up any channels in your cable lineup for the OTA ones when using various filters.
> 
> I completely agree it would be a good feature though! It would make this much easier, that's for sure!


Most cable systems don't have any room left on them, and the cable system and OTA signals received would have to "mesh", which is highly unlikely. Interesting experiment, but it's just that- an experiment. It's a kludge that might work in some place here or there, but will not work in most places for most people.

Going back to actually having an OTA connection like the Premieres did would be a great feature that power users like ourselves would be likely to utilize. It's also sort of a way to get past the 6-tuner limit of CableCard, since you could end up with 10 combined tuners.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Bigg said:


> Most cable systems don't have any room left on them, and the cable system and OTA signals received would have to "mesh", which is highly unlikely. Interesting experiment, but it's just that- an experiment. It's a kludge that might work in some place here or there, but will not work in most places for most people.
> 
> Going back to actually having an OTA connection like the Premieres did would be a great feature that power users like ourselves would be likely to utilize. It's also sort of a way to get past the 6-tuner limit of CableCard, since you could end up with 10 combined tuners.


Not if you use filters like I said. Agreed that doing both simultaneously without doing what I do is best.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Not if you use filters like I said. Agreed that doing both simultaneously without doing what I do is best.


You don't know what you will lose on the cable side. Also, it could change at any time, since they can move stuff around at will, and no one normally would ever notice, since everything is virtually mapped. That's unlike OTA, where a channel has a certain license.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Bigg said:


> *You don't know what you will lose on the cable side. *Also, it could change at any time, since they can move stuff around at will, and no one normally would ever notice, since everything is virtually mapped. That's unlike OTA, where a channel has a certain license.


You do if you use and have the analog channels still, or check the freqs that you're blocking. time consuming, yes, but doable (I did it!)

I agree about them moving channels though. :down:


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> You do if you use and have the analog channels still, or check the freqs that you're blocking. time consuming, yes, but doable (I did it!)
> 
> I agree about them moving channels though. :down:


I guess if you nuke an analog channel, as long as they are offering it, you know what is on that frequency (or was). As soon as they get rid of analog, which is going to happen eventually on the few laggard systems that still have it, then every last bit of spectrum on the system is up for grabs for anything at their whim. Even on analog systems, as they transition, a lot of channels have been killed, and digital stuff put in those channels. I know a few years back, Comcast did that here over the course of a few years. A couple of miscellaneous analog channels would disappear, and they would put digital stuff on those, so that the system was a hodge-podge. Then they finally went all-digital.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Bigg said:


> I guess if you nuke an analog channel, as long as they are offering it, you know what is on that frequency (or was). As soon as they get rid of analog, which is going to happen eventually on the few laggard systems that still have it, then every last bit of spectrum on the system is up for grabs for anything at their whim. Even on analog systems, as they transition, a lot of channels have been killed, and digital stuff put in those channels. I know a few years back, Comcast did that here over the course of a few years. A couple of miscellaneous analog channels would disappear, and they would put digital stuff on those, so that the system was a hodge-podge. Then they finally went all-digital.


Strategic use of notch and/or bandpass filters to eliminate unwanted digital channels, like Al Jazeera for instance, cures that issue!


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

lessd said:


> The new policy just started with the Bolt, I did not look it up, in post 15 aaronwt took the time to look up the new policy.
> 
> Your question about Amazon is not worth an answer as the new policy just went into effect and the Bolt will come out this Monday (some people have walked into Best Bye and gotten one early) hard for me to have gotten from Amazon already.


The point of the question is to prove that you didn't know what you were talking about when you gave this reply


lessd said:


> Yes, when you go to activate say an Amazon purchased TiVo Bolt you can pay nothing and get a year of free service or pay $599 for *All In*.


How could you say that if you didn't even know what the policy is? And if you're handing out info that you now claim to have not known, why were you questioning my response as a defense to yours?

And yes he looked it up for you, but it wasn't necessary, or at least it shouldn't have been. Anybody here with any sense knows that an annual service agreement is for 1 year and that you can then subscribe it again with any plan you want at any time before that year is over.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

OK you win


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

lessd said:


> OK you win


What's his prize, a new set of mirrored shades with a mustache attached so we don't recognize him, and a plastic FBI badge for the interior of his trenchcoat?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

harpervision said:


> what's his prize, a new set of mirrored shades with a mustache attached so we don't recognize him, and a plastic fbi badge for the interior of his trenchcoat?


lol !!!


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

HarperVision said:


> Strategic use of notch and/or bandpass filters to eliminate unwanted digital channels, like Al Jazeera for instance, cures that issue!


That is one of the channels I watch reguarly. Much better than Fox or even Cnn. Much less bias than other news channels.


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## moonscape (Jul 3, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> That is one of the channels I watch reguarly. Much better than Fox or even Cnn. Much less bias than other news channels.


Same here. Comcast finally got Al Jazeera in my market, and it's such a refreshing news source.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

aaronwt said:


> That is one of the channels I watch reguarly. Much better than Fox or even Cnn. Much less bias than other news channels.





moonscape said:


> Same here. Comcast finally got Al Jazeera in my market, and it's such a refreshing news source.


Yep, sounds like you'll be assimilated soon too. 









Do you guys even understand propaganda and psyops? I was in it for many years, and take it from me....be careful what you watch and wish for!


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Strategic use of notch and/or bandpass filters to eliminate unwanted digital channels, like Al Jazeera for instance, cures that issue!


I never have time to watch it, but AJAM is an EXCELLENT channel. They are actually doing real journalism. As long as Palestine isn't trying to blow up Israel, they do the best job with a lot of stories. When Palestine is trying to blow up Israel, time to change the channel! Same applies if you want any other news during the month following a plane crash on CNN.

That being said, digital channels can move any time, and there are usually several SD or a couple of HD channels on any given QAM, so if you kill a digital channel, who the heck knows what you'll lose. Killing channels like that is a terrible idea.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Yep


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Bigg said:


> I never have time to watch it, but AJAM is an EXCELLENT channel. They are actually doing real journalism. As long as Palestine isn't trying to blow up Israel, they do the best job with a lot of stories. When Palestine is trying to blow up Israel, time to change the channel!


I've never really watched the AJAM channel, but their AJ+ internet stuff that I have seen is complete garbage.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

HarperVision said:


> Yep, sounds like you'll be assimilated soon too.
> 
> Do you guys even understand propaganda and psyops? I was in it for many years, and take it from me....be careful what you watch and wish for!


I wasn't talking about Fox.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Bigg said:


> Their website is excellent, but the TV channel is amazing. They really dig into stories. It's weird seeing a network from Qatar really dig into social and economic issues in America, but they do. So long as Palestine isn't trying to blow up Israel.


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