# TiVo Roamio/Bolt owners--I'd recommend a GOOD wireless router.



## RayChuang88 (Sep 5, 2002)

By the way, if you own a TiVo Roamio (or soon) Bolt with built-in WiFi antenna, I highly recommend you do one thing: _get a better wireless router_.

I used to use a Netgear N600 (WNDR3700v3) router, and frankly, according to my Roamio Pro's WiFi quality reading, I was getting a terrible 49-52% quality rating--and that's at the longer range 2.4 GHz! :down: (On my now-retired TiVo HDXL, I was getting around 85%, thanks to the external WiFi antenna.) Switching to an Asus RT-AC68U made a _gigantic_ difference, with 75% quality rating at 5 GHz and 85% rating at 2.4 GHz. I think the external antennas and _beamforming_ on the RT-AC68U made a huge difference connecting wireless with my Roamio Pro to my new router. :up:


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

The internal wifi antennas on the Roamios really aren't very good. Hardwiring is really the best option with them. I don't know if they improved the Bolt's internal wifi or not.


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## gespears (Aug 10, 2007)

RayChuang88 said:


> Switching to an Asus RT-AC68U made a _gigantic_ difference. :up:


I got a refurb AC68U and really like it. It's a very good router. Asus' router line in general seems to be really gaining quality and performance.


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## LoneWolf15 (Mar 20, 2010)

Wired is always better than wireless. Always --and I say this as someone who has worked 20 years in IT.

Wireless is a matter of convenience. Reasonable speed can be had with it if done properly, but wired removes a large number of "what-ifs" from the equation. Ethernet is good for 100m (330 feet). Interference is less likely (unless you're running your cable right over fluorescent lights, electrical motors, or power cables, which are all no-nos). You won't have congestion that could potentially come from multiple wireless devices all on the same router.

This isn't just true for Tivo. It's true for printing, and anything that involves expectation of consistent throughput. You can use wireless --but if you're able to run a cable, it'll work better.


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## RayChuang88 (Sep 5, 2002)

LoneWolf15 said:


> Wired is always better than wireless. Always --and I say this as someone who has worked 20 years in IT.


While I definitely agree, very few homes have Ethernet wired throughout the house. As such, you have to get by with a wireless router in most homes, and when I switched from my old Netgear N600 to the new Asus RT-AC68U, the difference in range and signal quality was _tremendous_.


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## eric102 (Oct 31, 2012)

A lot of homes have unused cat5 phone lines to nearly every room, its very easy to convert them to Ethernet.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

eric102 said:


> A lot of homes have unused cat5 phone lines to nearly every room, its very easy to convert them to Ethernet.


Most U.S. homes have RJ-11 phone lines which, as far as I know, can not be used for ethernet.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Most U.S. homes have RJ-11 phone lines which, as far as I know, can not be used for ethernet.


Rj-11 cabling is Cat3, and certainly can be used for ethernet, reliably at least up to 10Mbit's.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

MikeBear said:


> Rj-11 cabling is Cat3, and certainly can be used for ethernet, reliably at least up to 10Mbit's.


Depends on how old. It could be what they unofficially called Category 1 cabling, which will not hit the speeds of official Cat3 cable.

And then you have unofficial Category 2 cable, which again is old and won't reach the speeds of Cat3 cable. Cat 2 cable has a speed of 4mb/s.

The condos where I live most definitely do not have Category 3 cable for it's telephone wiring. But they are also 33 years old.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

A lot of places have RJ-11 jacks and "station wire" which is basically 4 conductor doorbell wire that's not even twisted pair.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

MikeBear said:


> Rj-11 cabling is Cat3, and certainly can be used for ethernet, reliably at least up to 10Mbit's.


Chuckle. Given the context, I think we're beyond the point where even the most reliable "up t0 10Mbps" wire is moot.


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## eric102 (Oct 31, 2012)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Most U.S. homes have RJ-11 phone lines which, as far as I know, can not be used for ethernet.


Maybe its a regional thing, when my home was built 16 years ago cat5 was used for the phone lines and my impression was it was the norm for future proofing.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

eric102 said:


> Maybe its a regional thing, when my home was built 16 years ago cat5 was used for the phone lines and my impression was it was the norm for future proofing.


Do you believe "Most U.S. Homes" are 16 years old or newer?


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## eric102 (Oct 31, 2012)

SullyND said:


> Do you believe "Most U.S. Homes" are 16 years old or newer?


I have no idea when cat5 became the norm but it predated 16 years ago in my area and there's certainly been millions of homes, condo's, apartments built in this country since then.

I should have deleted the "most" in the quote.


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## RayChuang88 (Sep 5, 2002)

Alas, even most _new_ homes don't have CAT 5 Ethernet wiring to every room. As such, if you want networking throughout the house, the only way to go is with good wireless router (like the Asus RT-AC68U I'm using--the 2.4 GHz range on the new router is just amazing).


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

If you have to go wireless, you want a Bolt and a wireless AC router. The Bolt has wireless AC. 

On paper at least, the Bolt is going to be much better wirelessly than a Roamio.


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## disturbedfred (Oct 2, 2004)

RayChuang88 said:


> By the way, if you own a TiVo Roamio (or soon) Bolt with built-in WiFi antenna, I highly recommend you do one thing: _get a better wireless router_.
> 
> I used to use a Netgear N600 (WNDR3700v3) router, and frankly, according to my Roamio Pro's WiFi quality reading, I was getting a terrible 49-52% quality rating--and that's at the longer range 2.4 GHz! :down: (On my now-retired TiVo HDXL, I was getting around 85%, thanks to the external WiFi antenna.) Switching to an Asus RT-AC68U made a _gigantic_ difference, with 75% quality rating at 5 GHz and 85% rating at 2.4 GHz. I think the external antennas and _beamforming_ on the RT-AC68U made a huge difference connecting wireless with my Roamio Pro to my new router. :up:


Why would anyone with a Roamio or Bolt even consider wireless when MoCA is so easy?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

trip1eX said:


> If you have to go wireless, you want a Bolt and a wireless AC router. The Bolt has wireless AC.
> 
> On paper at least, the Bolt is going to be much better wirelessly than a Roamio.


But that's on paper. In actual use the Roamio wireless is routed through the ethernet internally. So the speeds I saw wirelessly were identical to the wired connection. Around 94Mb/s either way. I had hoped I would have been able to take advantage of the faster wireless N speeds but that was not the case. I haven't tested wireless or MoCA with the Bolt yet.

But even if it does the same thing, at least the Bolt has GigE so that would be good wireless speeds. I've been getting over 300Mb/s transfer rates this evening(as reported by the Bolt) while I've had all four tuners recording. WHich is excellent when compared to the ROamio Pro.


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

My Roamio basic is working fine on a Linksys by Cisco E1000 wireless n router. I do not use streaming, just for program information.


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## hytekjosh (Dec 4, 2010)

The types of CPUs in routers will play a role. For example, there is a huge improvement in Asus 68 compared to 66.


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## ramiss (Jan 30, 2014)

disturbedfred said:


> Why would anyone with a Roamio or Bolt even consider wireless when MoCA is so easy?


Agreed! Just get 1 of these to bridge between the wired side of your router and the coax line. Then you have MoCA on every coax line in the house for TiVo/minis etc.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B008C...+actiontec&dpPl=1&dpID=41T3gaa7oUL&ref=plSrch

You should also get a POE filter.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

disturbedfred said:


> Why would anyone with a Roamio or Bolt even consider wireless when MoCA is so easy?


If you live in an apartment, have no room to room wires and want to take everything with you when you move, wireless is the only choice. I admit I've been into wireless since I was 16 with a HAM license. My Roamio uses an ASUS EA-N66R, Mini uses a Linksys WUMC710 and the router is a Netgear R7500. No dropouts or other issues. No fixed IP addresses. So, while I understand that MoCA is the best route, it's not the only route. Like the thread title says: get a good router.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

ramiss said:


> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B008C...+actiontec&dpPl=1&dpID=41T3gaa7oUL&ref=plSrch


TiVo sells the MoCA adapters directly for cheaper than that:

https://www.tivo.com/shop/detail/moca



ramiss said:


> You should also get a POE filter.


Filters too:

https://www.tivo.com/shop/detail/moca-poe


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> If you live in an apartment, have no room to room wires and want to take everything with you when you move, wireless is the only choice. I admit I've been into wireless since I was 16 with a HAM license. My Roamio uses an ASUS EA-N66R, Mini uses a Linksys WUMC710 and the router is a Netgear R7500. No dropouts or other issues. No fixed IP addresses. So, while I understand that MoCA is the best route, it's not the only route. Like the thread title says: get a good router.


The above indicates a single Mini using a wireless bridge.

I'd be curious as to what's the maximum number of active, simultaneously MPEG2-streaming Minis anyone's been able to hit when the Minis are communicating via such a wireless bridge configuration.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> The above indicates a single Mini using a wireless bridge.
> 
> I'd be curious as to what's the maximum number of active, simultaneously MPEG2-streaming Minis anyone's been able to hit when the Minis are communicating via such a wireless bridge configuration.


I would love to test that, but I don't need another Mini at this time. I feel my basic Roamio will be the bottleneck, since I see a 10 to 20% performance hit when the Mini is active. I know a Roamio has more horsepower than a Premiere, but perhaps a Pro or Plus has more?


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## LoneWolf15 (Mar 20, 2010)

eric102 said:


> Maybe its a regional thing, when my home was built 16 years ago cat5 was used for the phone lines and my impression was it was the norm for future proofing.


That's not necessarily the norm. All depends.

CAT3 is still used for voice. CAT5 certainly works by separating the pairs, but it isn't always used.

Still, there are a number of homes where it isn't too difficult to run a basic CAT5E cable here or there. There were a few holes drilled in the floor for our coax already, so I ran an Ethernet cable from my router/firewall in the basement upstairs, so I could hardwire my Tivo, HTPC, and Nintendo Wii. My wireless access point is also connected at this spot.


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## ramiss (Jan 30, 2014)

tarheelblue32 said:


> TiVo sells the MoCA adapters directly for cheaper than that:
> 
> https://www.tivo.com/shop/detail/moca
> 
> ...


I guess I never considered the TiVo site since I'm impatient and I can get it from Amazon in 2 actual days. Instead of from TiVo which might happen after 2 extra days of processing before it ships, if it isn't the weekend.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## eric102 (Oct 31, 2012)

LoneWolf15 said:


> That's not necessarily the norm. All depends.
> 
> CAT3 is still used for voice. CAT5 certainly works by separating the pairs, but it isn't always used.
> 
> Still, there are a number of homes where it isn't too difficult to run a basic CAT5E cable here or there. There were a few holes drilled in the floor for our coax already, so I ran an Ethernet cable from my router/firewall in the basement upstairs, so I could hardwire my Tivo, HTPC, and Nintendo Wii. My wireless access point is also connected at this spot.


At the time the low voltage tech also suggested running a second cat5 run to each outlet and also one coax for further future proofing. I balked at the second cat5 but did do the coax which has come in handy for moca which I don't think existed or at least wasn't very common back then.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

The subject of this thread should be 'Tivo Bolt/Roamio owners - I recommend using MoCA'.

Wireless is ALWAYS a crapshoot, as is powerline. Doesn't matter what router or powerline adapters you use, and even with a good setup you can have daily interference.


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

slowbiscuit said:


> The subject of this thread should be 'Tivo Bolt/Roamio owners - I recommend using MoCA'.
> 
> Wireless is ALWAYS a crapshoot, as is powerline. Doesn't matter what router or powerline adapters you use, and even with a good setup you can have daily interference.


I ran for over 3 years with an electrical ethernet connection, which worked fine even though TIVO frowns on that.... They never really knew much about networking and always try to blame our local networks.... Anyway, when I recently got a Mini, I did have a moca adapter lying around and then really did need to hook it up (Roamio Pro in living room) AND IT WORKED GREAT. Amazing way to network. Amazing how the Mini runs thru it too.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

samccfl99 said:


> I ran for over 3 years with an electrical ethernet connection, which worked fine even though *TIVO frowns on that..*.. *They never really knew much about networking* and always try to blame our local networks.... Anyway, when I recently got a Mini, I did have a moca adapter lying around and then really did need to hook it up (Roamio Pro in living room) AND IT *WORKED GREAT. Amazing way to network. Amazing how the Mini runs thru it too.*


So it seems TiVO knew a _little _about networking, then...


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## holysin (Mar 16, 2002)

LoneWolf15 said:


> Wired is always better than wireless. Always --and I say this as someone who has worked 20 years in IT.


And as someone who has worked 20 yrs in it you should know not to use the term always (or never) if you have a wired Ethernet card with a max speed of 100Mb (as the roamio has) and a max WiFi speed of 300Mb (as the roamio seems to) the only reasons to use wired over wireless are if the wireless is capped (as in the roamio) or due to a forced position of the access point. I'd opt for wired over wireless at up to a 25% speed difference after that I'd use wireless (ac router if you please) with the access point close, but that wasn't an option on the roamio so mines hard wired as the good folks at TiVo have apparently capped WiFi to 100Mb speeds


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

holysin said:


> And as someone who has worked 20 yrs in it you should know not to use the term always (or never) if you have a wired Ethernet card with a max speed of 100Mb (as the roamio has) and a max WiFi speed of 300Mb (as the roamio seems to) the only reasons to use wired over wireless are if the wireless is capped (as in the roamio) or due to a forced position of the access point. I'd opt for wired over wireless at up to a 25% speed difference after that I'd use wireless (ac router if you please) with the access point close, but that wasn't an option on the roamio so mines hard wired as the good folks at TiVo have apparently capped WiFi to 100Mb speeds


It's not that it's capped, but the WiFi interface must run through the Ethernet interface which is limited to 100mbps. Which would explain why my wired and wireless speeds are identical on my Roamio Basic boxes.


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## dahacker (Jan 14, 2004)

holysin said:


> And as someone who has worked 20 yrs in it you should know not to use the term always (or never) if you have a wired Ethernet card with a max speed of 100Mb (as the roamio has) and a max WiFi speed of 300Mb (as the roamio seems to) the only reasons to use wired over wireless are if the wireless is capped (as in the roamio) or due to a forced position of the access point. I'd opt for wired over wireless at up to a 25% speed difference after that I'd use wireless (ac router if you please) with the access point close, but that wasn't an option on the roamio so mines hard wired as the good folks at TiVo have apparently capped WiFi to 100Mb speeds


I'm going to go with wired is ALWAYS better than wireless for fixed objects like a Tivo. My definition of better is that it will ALWAYS work and I won't be EVENTUALLY crying all over the Internet one day that my AC router isn't working quite right for some X, Y, or Z unknown reason. Even the worst, cheapest ethernet switch will nail pretty dang close to 100Mbps or 1Gbps 24x7 for years and years. That your setup happens to be able to do 300Mbps with specially constructed walls and a Faraday cage around your house is useless to the average user with average network equipment.


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## windriver (Apr 26, 2002)

We upgraded our Tivo Series 3 with the Bolt. Moved the Series 3 to a room further away from our router (DLink DIR 815). It connected fine and operated flawlessly, as did our laptops, iphones, etc... The Bolt, however would not connect and would give different error codes (N02, N06, C130, C133). 

A call to TiVo customer service was unable to correct the issue - rebooting machine, modem, router, etc... The service rep finally suggested that I hard wire the Bolt to the network via ethernet cable. The location of my router makes that not a feasible solution.

I solved the problem by purchasing a new wireless AC router (Netgear r7000). The set up was relatively easy, and the TiVo Bolt has successfully connected and downloaded programming data. The netgear signal strength is much stronger than the DLink, and all of my devices are up and running - even my printer which was a PIA to connect in the past!

I spent so much time looking for solutions to my connection issue, I thought I would post my results. Hopefully, someone else can save the hours of frustration and waiting on hold, etc...



I'm not allowed to post a link to the router, but here is the info on where I found mine. I'm sure you can find one cheaper if you hunt and have more time. bestbuy.com/site/netgear-nighthawk-dual-band-wireless-ac-router-with-4-port-ethernet-switch-black/1754208.p?id=1219062800202&skuId=1754208


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

gespears said:


> I got a refurb AC68U and really like it. It's a very good router. Asus' router line in general seems to be really gaining quality and performance.


As someone who bought a Asus AC66U in April of 2014 and has already had to replace it, I would disagree. Just wait until you have to deal with Asus tech support. It's a nightmare.

What I really loved was having to pay over $20 to send my router to them and have them then return it without doing a damn thing to it. The intermittent problem I reported didn't happen to occur during the probably less than 5 minutes they had it turned on, so they just sent it back.

And that's not my only complaint about Asus tech support. They are very difficult to deal with.

Not a router, but I recently had to deal with Brother tech support on a printer, and it was night and day.

Edit: I bought an Asus AC network adapter back in April 2014 too, and Asus still doesn't have Windows 10 drivers for it (although the 8 drivers work and it was very problematic under Window 7 using the 7 drivers.)


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

disturbedfred said:


> Why would anyone with a Roamio or Bolt even consider wireless when MoCA is so easy?


Because they already have a wireless network and setting the Tivo up for it is easy and doesn't cost a dime?????


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I would never suggest someone use the internal wireless of a Roamio. But my Roamio uses an ASUS EA-N66R and the Minis use WUMC710. 100% uptime.


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

holysin said:


> And as someone who has worked 20 yrs in it you should know not to use the term always (or never) if you have a wired Ethernet card with a max speed of 100Mb (as the roamio has) and a max WiFi speed of 300Mb (as the roamio seems to) the only reasons to use wired over wireless are if the wireless is capped (as in the roamio) or due to a forced position of the access point. I'd opt for wired over wireless at up to a 25% speed difference after that I'd use wireless (ac router if you please) with the access point close, but that wasn't an option on the roamio so mines hard wired as the good folks at TiVo have apparently capped WiFi to 100Mb speeds


A Roamio isn't going to do anything that would even stress 100-base-T except possibly a file transfer with the DVR under no load. Switches are also smarter than airwaves.

I'd go out of my way to go with wired or Moca in almost every case just as TiVo recommends unless it's just not worth the expense to run cable to a secondary viewing location.


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## c133roamioerrors (Dec 28, 2013)

My previous TiVo had the external adapter and worked great. My Roamio had a lot of problems, thus my board id. I bought a netgear range extender and hard wired it to my Tivo and had netgear support assist me on my router options. I haven't had any problems with connectivity since. When Tivo introduced Amazon Prime streaming it didn't work because of frequent buffering issues and I bought a Roku. APS works fine now on my Roamio without any changes on my end.
I also bought an external Tivo adapter which I have never used.


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