# Seems like a hard drive issue, but...



## mikeb33 (Dec 10, 2001)

MY Series 3 HD TCD648250B is stuck on "welcome, powering up...". I had a WD 300GB drive here that is known to work. I downloaded WINMFS and ran a copy . It took about an hour and said successful, but when I put in the 300GB, it's the same thing. Welcome, powering up... and after a few minutes, reboot. 

I took my Fluke to the main power supply connector and got the following voltages while on:
Orange 3.07vdc
Gray 7.64vdc
Red 5.08vdc
Yellow 12.43vdc

Seems ok doesn't it? Could my hard drive be messed up to a point where making a copy isn't good enough? How do I make a new drive from scratch? Saving my old shows isn't that big a deal, but I want to watch TV tonight!


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

mikeb33 said:


> MY Series 3 HD TCD648250B is stuck on "welcome, powering up...". I had a WD 300GB drive here that is known to work. I downloaded WINMFS and ran a copy . It took about an hour and said successful, but when I put in the 300GB, it's the same thing. Welcome, powering up... and after a few minutes, reboot.
> 
> I took my Fluke to the main power supply connector and got the following voltages while on:
> Orange 3.07vdc
> ...


Find out if you can get a Hard drive image of your TiVo Series 3 from somebody.


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## mikeb33 (Dec 10, 2001)

lessd said:


> Find out if you can get a Hard drive image of your TiVo Series 3 from somebody.


I don't know anybody with the same model as me. I also own a newer premier, would that work?

I decided to buy a new hard drive and try copying it again. I thought maybe using a used WD Velociraptor might not have been wise. should be done copying in a half an hour. I'll post up if it works, but if anybody knows where I can get the image I need, I'd like to hear it. Thanks.


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

Check the capacitors on your power supply. A lot of the original OLED S3 boxes (including mine) have been having issues with bulging capacitors lately which can cause the reboot loop you're describing.

See here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=489282
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=490900
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=473394



mikeb33 said:


> I don't know anybody with the same model as me. I also own a newer premier, would that work?


No, you can't use images across platforms like that.


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## mikeb33 (Dec 10, 2001)

One of the medium size caps does have a slight bulge on top. Even though my voltages are all good, this could keep it from booting?


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

Based on my own experience and all of those other threads, yeah. You might be looking at a power supply problem, not a hard drive issue at all.

One way I was able to get my S3 to boot when it was having this problem (before I replaced the PSU) was to leave out the CableCARDs. That seemed to lower the draw enough to get the box to boot completely, which proved to me it wasn't a drive issue.


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## mikeb33 (Dec 10, 2001)

windracer said:


> Based on my own experience and all of those other threads, yeah. You might be looking at a power supply problem, not a hard drive issue at all.
> 
> One way I was able to get my S3 to boot when it was having this problem (before I replaced the PSU) was to leave out the CableCARDs. That seemed to lower the draw enough to get the box to boot completely, which proved to me it wasn't a drive issue.


I actually tried it with cards out with no help.


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## mikeb33 (Dec 10, 2001)

Well out of frustration, this morning I tried it again and with both cable cards out, it boots up! I can watch saved shows. So it's not the hard drive at all. In fact, I could boot successfully with my copied drive too.
So now I have to see if it is the power supply, or a bad cable card. Do the cards go bad? Since I have 2 bulging caps, I am taking the power supply board to the electronics store today to get new ones.
I know how to desolder and solder, but is there a write up or guide to fixing these power supplies?

Thanks to all


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

Check those links I posted earlier, I believe there are instructions in one of those threads. If not, just search the forums here for "s3 bulging capacitors" and you should find what you need.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

mikeb33 said:


> Well out of frustration, this morning I tried it again and with both cable cards out, it boots up! I can watch saved shows. So it's not the hard drive at all. In fact, I could boot successfully with my copied drive too.
> So now I have to see if it is the power supply, or a bad cable card. Do the cards go bad? Since I have 2 bulging caps, I am taking the power supply board to the electronics store today to get new ones.
> I know how to desolder and solder, but is there a write up or guide to fixing these power supplies?
> 
> Thanks to all


Here's the S3 capacitor plague thread

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=473394

and your pictures are great illustrations of the symptoms.

You need Low ESR capacitors rated for 105 degrees celsius/centigrade (so if you mean Radio Shack when you say electronics store, forget it, they have neither the right kind nor, most likely, anybody who knows the difference if they have anybody who knows what a capacitor is at all*), the uF (microFarad) rating has to be the same (those 2 appear to be 2200uF at 6.3V) and the working voltage rating the same or the next step up, so you could replace those 2 with 2200uF at 10V, or 16V if absolutely necessary.

That white stuff stuck to them is just glue to hold them in place during soldering and shipping, you can just break it off.

Be sure to look at the labeling on the caps to make sure I'm right about the values (although I got them by looking at a 648 power supply I happen to have out loose at the moment).

Even if the DC Voltage readings are good (although the 3.3V line is a little low), if those caps are bad they could be letting too much switching frequency "AC " ride in on top of the DC, which can cause all sorts of problems.

Remember, always know exactly where both ends of the power cord are, and don't forget the little screw that goes into the top of the AC jack from the outside, which takes about a #8 or #9 Torx bit instead of the #10 that you can use for just about everything else.

(*If you're looking to buy a cell phone, however...)


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## mikeb33 (Dec 10, 2001)

I bought 2 capacitors at Tri State Electronics, local to me. They were these:
http://unicornelex.com/ntevht2200m102200f10v105cradialelectrolyticcapacitor.aspx

Soldered them in, reinstalled the cable cards and plugged in. Booted right up and has been working fine for hours. Thank you everybody!


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

mikeb33 said:


> I bought 2 capacitors at Tri State Electronics, local to me. They were these:
> http://unicornelex.com/ntevht2200m102200f10v105cradialelectrolyticcapacitor.aspx
> 
> Soldered them in, reinstalled the cable cards and plugged in. Booted right up and has been working fine for hours. Thank you everybody!


It must be nice to have a good parts house nearby.

The NTEs, though high temp rated, apparently aren't Low ESR, but you may be able to get away with them for awhile.

Oh yeah, what readings do you get with your meter now?


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## keysman (Jul 19, 2002)

So I've also been having troubles with my S3 TiVo. See this thread for the details... http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=496867

Today I checked the voltages and they were all pretty close what they should be. I did find at least three caps are domed. The two under the black heat sync in mikeb33's photo above (C401 and C402, I think) are domed and the one marked C701 on the opposite side of that black heat sync.

I guess I'll order some caps and see if that fixes my problems.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

keysman said:


> So I've also been having troubles with my S3 TiVo. See this thread for the details... http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=496867
> 
> Today I checked the voltages and they were all pretty close what they should be. I did find at least three caps are domed. The two under the black heat sync in mikeb33's photo above (C401 and C402, I think) are domed and the one marked C701 on the opposite side of that black heat sync.
> 
> I guess I'll order some caps and see if that fixes my problems.


Cast a very suspicious eye on C504 as well.

It's the one in between the red wires and L500

Remember, low-ESR and 105 degrees, and get the polarity right.


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## keysman (Jul 19, 2002)

unitron said:


> Cast a very suspicious eye on C504 as well.
> 
> It's the one in between the red wires and L500
> 
> Remember, low-ESR and 105 degrees, and get the polarity right.


Thanks unitron. This is C504, correct?









If I order the caps list in this post...
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9131293&highlight=P14365-ND#post9131293

I should be getting the correct low-ESR, 105º caps, correct?


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

keysman said:


> Thanks unitron. This is C504, correct?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That (green arrow) is 504, and the Panasonic FR series are low-ESR

http://www.ttieurope.com/object/io_1274447859676.html

Apparently digi-key has them and so does Mouser, both reputable companies which have been around at least the last 40 years.


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## mikeb33 (Dec 10, 2001)

keysman said:


> So I've also been having troubles with my S3 TiVo. See this thread for the details... http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=496867
> 
> Today I checked the voltages and they were all pretty close what they should be. I did find at least three caps are domed. The two under the black heat sync in mikeb33's photo above (C401 and C402, I think) are domed and the one marked C701 on the opposite side of that black heat sync.
> 
> I guess I'll order some caps and see if that fixes my problems.


My voltages were good and while domed, there was no leakage so I spent time and money looking at the hard drive. Do the caps!


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## keysman (Jul 19, 2002)

I performed a quadruple bypass on my TiVo today, replacing four of the caps. The surgery was a success. When I plugged her back into to juice, she fired up and is running on both cylinders. She was limping along before the operation but would only work with one cable card inserted. Now both are back in there and it's working normal.










Thanks very much for your help.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

keysman said:


> I performed a quadruple bypass on my TiVo today, replacing four of the caps. The surgery was a success. When I plugged her back into to juice, she fired up and is running on both cylinders. She was limping along before the operation but would only work with one cable card inserted. Now both are back in there and it's working normal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm assuming you clipped those long leads before re-installing the board.


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## keysman (Jul 19, 2002)

unitron said:


> I'm assuming you clipped those long leads before re-installing the board.


I thought those were supposed to extend down to touch the case.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

keysman said:


> I thought those were supposed to extend down to touch the case.


You have confused soldering with welding.


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## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

keysman said:


> I performed a quadruple bypass on my TiVo today, replacing four of the caps. The surgery was a success. When I plugged her back into to juice, she fired up and is running on both cylinders..


Sorry to break the news but the S3 is a 4 cyl...

Glad it worked out.


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## keysman (Jul 19, 2002)

Soapm said:


> Sorry to break the news but the S3 is a 4 cyl...
> 
> Glad it worked out.


The first indication I had that there was a problem was when it would only boot properly with one cable card installed. Now it works with both, hence two cyl.


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## keysman (Jul 19, 2002)

So when I replaced the capacitors about 11 months ago, I only replaced the ones that looked bad. I replaced the ones with domed tops and I think one other one for good measure. This morning my Series 3 stopped working again. So tonight, I replaced the rest of the caps. I purchased all the caps last year so I still had several more on the shelf. After replacing the rest, the Series 3 lives again. At least for now. I guess I should have took the time to replace them all 11 months ago. I think it's time to start thinking about buying a Roamio.


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