# HR10-250 nearing eol (for me) - options?



## deadsenator (Jul 6, 2007)

Hi,
I am a Sunday Ticket fan, so I am stuck with DTV until that changes. I have used my HR10 for two or three years now and had upgraded the drive immediately to a 500GB. Things are pretty much okay with this receiver when watching/recording SD content, but if I try to have two HD feeds (that's about all I can pick up on MPEG-2), the receiver will inevitably crash and reboot within a few minutes. Watching previously recorded HD and tuning/recording more HD will do the same thing. Thinking the drive was at fault, I have changed it out with another with the same results.

I have been waiting for Godot in the form of a new DTV-Tivo unit. Will he ever come? Not sure I can wait till next year.

So, my options are to continue with this or upgrade to an MPEG-4 capable receiver. I would really like to watch Sunday Ticket in HD, so this is propelling me to think more about the upgrade path. One of the prime features I love about my Tivo is the dual-tuner caching. Watching two football games at once is wonderful stuff.

If I look at the newer receivers on DTV, the following have been brought to my attention: HR20-700, HR22-100, and the HR23-700. Please let me know if there are others that I should consider. The reason that these have come to my attention are as follows:

HR20-700 - The last(?) of the "owned" type receivers. If I were able to obtain an "owned" unit, this would allow me to crack it open and pop in a larger drive without worry. MPEG-4 capable. ($100-150)

HR22-100 - Newer. Costco sells it. I have been told the "-100" type units are to be avoided. ($170)

HR23-700 - Newest. Doubleplay capable with the newer software. DTV says I am "eligible" for a free receiver upgrade. Is the 23 available in that type of a deal? If so, I might consider it. I also see them on fleaBay for $200. (free-$200)

1) Is there any real "fix" for my HR-10? I feel like it's on borrowed time and it gets very few HD channels.

2) Given a choice of MPEG-4 receivers, which one would you choose? Any that I have mentioned?

3) Is the lease fee worth a leased receiver? If I have no choice in that matter, then that's that. Should anyone risk opening up a leased box?

4) Is it possible to have a HD-DTV MPEG-4 non-DVR box lashed to a Tivo S3 box? Or is that barking up the wrong tree?

And finally, many thanks for the copious amounts of info y'all have provided me over the years of lurking.

DS


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## dagap (Dec 5, 2003)

You'll get better responses at dbstalk.com.

1. Have you tried swapping the access card?

2. Many say the HR20-700 is the best. Built-in OTA, fastest.

3. You must pay a lease fee or a mirror fee. They're the same price. Some people open their leased boxes, but most recommend adding an external drive instead.

4. Not possible.

Other notes:
- all HR2x-xxx models will have soon have "double play". Roll out is in progress.
- A unit bought from Costco is still leased.
- Be careful buying from ebay/etc... call DTV to verify the unit is owned.
- you usually can't specify a model when getting the free upgrade from DTV.


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## dwynne (Mar 11, 2002)

deadsenator said:


> One of the prime features I love about my Tivo is the dual-tuner caching. Watching two football games at once is wonderful stuff.
> 
> HR20-700 - The last(?) of the "owned" type receivers. If I were able to obtain an "owned" unit, this would allow me to crack it open and pop in a larger drive without worry. MPEG-4 capable. ($100-150)
> 
> ...


Dual tuners with buffers is a great way to watch 2 games at once. Back when NFLST was not so expensive and HD was included free that is what I did. I dropped it when they kept hiking the price and wanted $100 extra for HD. Moot point now as I don't think MFLST is available for an HR10 owner, is it?

I know you know the difference, but what most of these receivers "sell" for does not matter as they are leased and you don't own them. The exception being some H20 and perhaps a handful of rack mount H21 models. So you would be paying for a leased box, which makes no sense.

If DTV will give you the new dish and an MPEG-4 DVR for free and install it for free and you don't mind having a non-Tivo and having a new 2 year hitch, then I would go for that. If they can't supply you a dual buffer model then make them give you a 2nd DVR for free and all it will cost you is $5 a month more.

At to your HR10-250, all of mine are still working fine w/o the issues you state. If you have a corrupt drive then making a copy of it will make you a new, corrupt drive that will do the same thing as the older drive. You could download a free image (if you can find one) or spend $20 for a cake image and put that on the new drive and if that fixes the problems. Did you try copying the old drive to new minus the recordings and stuff? Worst case you could need a power supply or something to fix your HR10. Still limited in channels, though.

I still am using my old HD Tivos because I like Tivos (and have since an old SA series 1) and I have lots to watch with what I have. I am sure DTV would give me free replacements if I agreed to 2 more years and come install them for free. But right now, that is not what I want. Would I pay to "buy" a leased box, I don't think so - makes no sense to me.

Dennis


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I have larger disks in my two HR2x boxes - one is owned, one is leased. Do I care? No. As for what you'll get, it will generally be whatever the installer has on the truck if you go that route. If you want a specific model, "buy" it from an authorized reseller such as Costco. You'll actually be paying the lease upgrade fee. DirecTV may offer to credit you for that if you would otherwise be eligible for a free box.

I too see no point in owning the box. That I own one of my HR2x boxes is a side effect of something else - I did not pay for it.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I wish I would have sold my three HR10-250 units in 2007 when I switched to FIOS. Now they aren't worth very much. Plus they were upgraded to hold the two drives back in 2004. But they were great when I used them between 2004 and 2007.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

HR20/21/22/23 all run the exact same software. Thus they all have "double play"/dual buffers if you have the latest update.

The hardware is virtually the same as well. HR20 has OTA tuners built in, the rest do not. 22 and 23 have larger hard drive. 23 doesn't need BBC dongle. Other then that they are pretty much the same.

They are all leased. DirecTV has done leasing since 2005 or so. It's possible to find owned ones on eBay but be very careful and check the receiver ID with DirecTV first. No real advantage to owning anyway.
You can buy from DirecTV directly. $400 to buy, $199 to free to lease. Same monthly fee either way. Up to you I guess.
If you do an upgrade from the HR10 you'll most likely get an HR2x for free anyway, plus upgrade your dish and switch and stuff.

No need to open the box for more recording space. Simply go out and get a 2 TB eSata drive and plug it in. Reboot. Done. (It does replace the internal though).


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## Matt L (Aug 13, 2000)

Got to agree, all of the units are interchangeable. The HR23 has the largest drive, that is the only plus to that unit. all the new software supports dual buffers, actually better than Tivo, in that it's longer, and if you are in the buffer and decide to record the show, even after it's done, it will.

If D will give you the free update, take it. there is no reason to give up your tivo if you don't want to, just tell them you are moving it to another TV if they want a reason. I kept mine, but after a few weeks with the HR2x series I pulled the plug. All my receivers are owned except the HR23 that replaced my TiVo. I got 4 them on Ebay for $59-$106. just check to see if they are owned before you buy. Call D and give them the receiver ID#, though I have to believe it really doesn't matter in the long run.


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## duanej (Oct 28, 2004)

I've got an HR10-250 that you can have cheap. Works great. PM me for details.


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## deadsenator (Jul 6, 2007)

Thanks for all the replies, everyone. It helped a lot. I bought a used HR20 for under $100. I know I could've gotten one for "free" from DTV, but I didn't want to be locked in to the 2-yr commitment even if I am not going anywhere. It's the principle of the thing. Once again, my principles cost me money. But this also allowed me to pick which receiver I get instead of playing receiver roulette. With the internal tuners and quicker response, the HR-20 seemed to be the one to go for, even if I have to pay a lease fee. What are the drive sizes that these usually come with? 320GB? I have some 1TB drives laying about, but is it worth popping for a 2TB?

Additionally, I had already installed the 5-LNB HD dish when I got the HR10, so DTV installation would have done me no good there. But I do still need the wideband multi-switch. I see them for $10-20 on fleaBay and $55 at Newegg and on up elsewhere. They all seem to be made by Zinwell. Is there any difference? They all look the same, but the price disparity is significant. I see the BBCs on there too for $.99/pair (+sh). Not sure I need them, but I've read that they can go bad. Is that true?

Am I missing anything else?

If not, this should hold me in HD-NFL nirvana while I wait very impatiently for the DTV-Tivo unit that I call Godot.

DS


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## Matt L (Aug 13, 2000)

You won't get any HD to speak of without the B Band converters, so get a couple. If you need a switch you need a switch, not too many ways around it. Just make sure it's the correct switch.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

You need the Zinwell WB68 multiswitch.

You also need the BBC's, you can get them sent to you free from DirecTV if the seller didn't include them.

On to the HR20, did you verify with DirecTV that it is indeed owned and that you can activate it?
Also, by default any CSR will activate it as leased because they don't know any other way so you may need to talk to the access card department (again, assuming it's really owned).


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## deadsenator (Jul 6, 2007)

Hey everybody. Just a follow-up. I finally got the HR20 setup and working. It's a 100 model (Thomson?). It came with BBCs, so that was good and I picked up a Zinwell switch. The IR remote seemed to work briefly, but then died. No IR remotes would work at all, even a Harmony I bought and a new stock one DTV sent. So, I suspect the IR sensor is dead. Newegg sells the RF version of the remote for $25 and that works great. I'll likely pick up another just to have two. I now seem to be swimming in remotes! I am having some slight trouble picking up all the sats cleanly, so I'll take a look at the alignment this weekend. I am also having some trouble with the DP feature. I pause on one channel and switch to another okay, but when I switch back to the previous one, it goes right to live and forgets the pause. Grrr....I guess I'll figure it out. I'll also be bumping the hard drive up to a 1TB when I feel like everything is smoothed out. Can I just use the Tivo tools that I've used in the past to dupe the drive? As far as I remember, it's just a Linux 'dd' command.

I got pretty lucky playing CSR roulette. The box showed up as leased, she switched it to owned with no coaxing from me. She asked if it had a card, I said yes and mentioned that I've had them switch those in the past too (this is true), but have also had new ones sent. She said she'd try to switch it and it worked. That was by far the easiest and most pleasant CSR I've ever had from DTV. It was out of the call center in Montana. Maybe waiting for the weekend helps...?

Anyhow, thanks again for the help and I am still waiting for the new DirecTivo boxes.


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## Enrique (May 15, 2006)

deadsenator said:


> I'll also be bumping the hard drive up to a 1TB when I feel like everything is smoothed out. Can I just use the Tivo tools that I've used in the past to dupe the drive? As far as I remember, it's just a Linux 'dd' command.


It's not as easy as Tivo.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=148760

Or for ESATA:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=160800&highlight=eSATA


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

The Double Play is supposed to work that way. It comes out of pause when you switch back to the paused tuner, but not to live. It should be behind in the buffer the amount of time that it was in pause.

Since the box is leased, your Terms of Service will be violated if you open the box. And the TiVo tools aren't needed. As suggested above, just get an external eSATA enclosure to increase storage. BTW, it uses either the internal or the external, but not both at the same time.


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## deadsenator (Jul 6, 2007)

@enrique - Thanks, that doesn't look too difficult at all. Just different.

@Jim - Yah, playing around with the DP looks like it goes back and plays where you left off. It looked like it was live in my initial test. My mistake. 

I appreciate your words, but presuming the CSR actually did what she said she did it should be an owned box now, but even if it isn't, I could give two hoots about the TOS. I pay handsomely for the service, so let em come and get me.

Others have mentioned the eSATA path, but I don't want another electronic device sitting around sucking up juice and cluttering up the place. So, replacing the internal drive is my goal.

Thanks again!


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

deadsenator said:


> ...The IR remote seemed to work briefly, but then died. No IR remotes would work at all, even a Harmony I bought and a new stock one DTV sent. So, I suspect the IR sensor is dead...
> 
> ...I am having some slight trouble picking up all the sats cleanly, so I'll take a look at the alignment this weekend...
> 
> ,,,I'll also be bumping the hard drive up to a 1TB when I feel like everything is smoothed out. Can I just use the Tivo tools that I've used in the past to dupe the drive?...


I think all the HR2x models come with dual IR-RF capability. I have a 20-100 and a 20-700, and both of those do. Yours may be stuck in RF mode. The manual can tell you how to switch it back and forth.

The KaKu dish installation is slightly different than the normal Ku, due to the fact that the Ka focal points are smaller, meaning you have to have a precise Ku install to get Ka HD channels properly (the dish is aligned only to one polarity each of 2 of the Ku sats, and there is no alignment for Ka. The Ka sats fall in line automagically when the Ku sats are properly aligned). You can have "in-the-ball-park" Ku alignment that will give reliable Ku performance but still have spotty Ka performance. Download the dish manual and pay close attention to the part about "dithering".

The HR2x uses a hybrid HDD/EEPROM storage system for the OS and user preferences. You can drop a bare drive in and it will work. No image necessary.

Once you get used to it's idiosyncrasies, the HR2x is fairly equal to the HR10. Even disregarding MPEG-4 capability, each is slightly better than the other in certain areas, but as a contest it is pretty much a wash.

Besides the two HRs that I have, I am nursing along two 5-year-old dual-drive HR10's. I have noticed that leaving the tuner on certain signals (CBS and CW) tends to cause them to reboot spontaneously much more often. I used to get 3 or 4 reboots a week, but since I have avoided those channels, and in particular because I do a "clear thumbs and suggestions" preventative restart every morning before I leave the house (with suggestions turned off), I have had only one spontaneous reboot on the pair since May or so.

I particularly like the fact that since MPEG-4 is a smaller file size (in this application) than typical MPEG-2, I can get 382 hours of HD on my two HR2x's (with a 1 TB X drive connected to one and a 1.5 TB X drive connected to the other) while my two HR10's, with 450 MB of storage each, can only hold 166 hours of HD between them.


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## Andy in NYC (Apr 3, 2002)

Are there any side-by-side comparisons of DirectTV's HD-DVRs v the Tivo HR10-250? I'm trying to decide whether to upgrade/change (I love Tivo) and I want to know what I'll be missing/gaining/what is different.

I know that the current DTV DVR boxes have 'other' features, but I'm not sure what they look like side by side. My easiest choice is to do nothing, but I get very few Sat-HD channels (which I seem to be paying for out of inertia not to change).

Thanks

Andrew


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

There was such a comparison, but it is well over a year old now and I don't think it has been updated with the new features of the HR2x series. For example, the HR2x now has dual live buffers (not exactly the same as the HR10 implementation).


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

Andy in NYC said:


> Are there any side-by-side comparisons of DirectTV's HD-DVRs v the Tivo HR10-250? ....
> 
> Andrew


Summary of HR20/21/22/23 vs. HR10-250

HR20/21/22/23 Advantages:
* MPEG4 (Ka-band) HiDef channels: Receive all of the newest HiDef channels from the 99 & 103-deg Ka-band satellites with a 5-LNB dish
* Dual 90-min buffers (DoublePlay)
* Faster Program Guide interface
* Faster reprioritization of Series Link settings
* Remaining disk space indicator onscreen
* Single button record scheduling
* Network connectivity: Share music, photo and video files with your Media Center PC
* Easy storage capacity upgrade: Just add large capacity external SATA drive, replacing internal drive
* Caller ID displayed on screen
* Native RF Remote control support using DirecTV's RF Remote
* Same channel overlap: Pad recording times on the same channel without requiring the second tuner
* Video stays "live" when using menus (Picture in Guide)
* Video on Demand (DirecTV OnDemand). Requires Internet connection.
* TV Apps: On-screen "widgets". Requires Internet connection.
* MultiRoom Viewing (MRV). View DVR's recordings via networked HD DVRs and HD Receivers [Coming Soon]
* Remote Booking: set up recordings over the internet (no internet connection required)
* "Active channel" content and interactive features
* "Group Play" feature to play multiple shows automatically
* Slightly better over-the-air (ATSC) tuner hardware (but not by much) [Only on HR20. AM21 add-on for HR21.]
* Simultaneous video outputs over HDMI, component, SVideo and composite video
* Single Wire Multiswith (SWM) support

HR10-250 Advantages:
* Tivo user interface loved by many (Wishlists, Tivo Suggestions)
* Dedicated "Slow Motion" button on remote
* Easier "skip to next/previous tick" with dedicated remote buttons
* "Channels I Receive" feature works properly
* More than 50 Season Passes/Series Links
* "Save to VCR" feature removes all on-screen menus when copying to DVD/VCR


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## Matt L (Aug 13, 2000)

Excellent summation!


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## Andy in NYC (Apr 3, 2002)

The new units only allow 50 season passes?


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Andy in NYC said:


> The new units only allow 50 season passes?


This seems to have been a software design decision that Directv made in the very beginning to make coding, testing, and season pass mgmt speed faster. I'm sure they could get rid of the limit if enough people actually called and complained. But the number of people that would ever hit that limit is very very small. Untill they run out of features that will benefit the masses to work on I doubt this one will make it to the top of the list.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

The HR2x equivalent of wishlists is, I think, more powerful than TiVos, since you can use "Boolean" expressions and limit to specific channels.


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## whitepelican (Feb 15, 2005)

litzdog911 said:


> HR20/21/22/23 Advantages:
> * Faster Program Guide interface


I would say that is extremely subjective (and also makes it pretty clear what bias the author has towards this pro/con list). It is the exact opposite of my experience with an HR20/HR21 vs. the HR10-250. The HR2x were many times slower, making it impossible to even change channels sometimes.



litzdog911 said:


> * Video stays "live" when using menus (Picture in Guide)


Which is just as frequently a negative as a positive. Anybody who records sports knows how annoying it is to not be able to turn off that "feature".



litzdog911 said:


> * Remote Booking: set up recordings over the internet (no internet connection required)


You should remove this from the "Advantages" list, as the HR10-250 can do this as well.



litzdog911 said:


> HR10-250 Advantages:
> * Tivo user interface loved by many (Wishlists, Tivo Suggestions)
> * Dedicated "Slow Motion" button on remote
> * Easier "skip to next/previous tick" with dedicated remote buttons
> ...


I would add to that:
* Dual live buffers are always active
* More rows of data displayed in both the Guide & List
* Play list sorting that actually makes sense (hint: "The Big Bang Theory" should not fall under the T's when alphabetized. Also, programs inside folders should be sorted by date even when the playlist is alphabetized.)
* Ability to recover "Recently Deleted" programs

Also, I can't stress enough how '"Channels I Receive" feature works properly' should be weighted at about 100x the importance of everything else on this list. The HR10-250 could actually show you search results and auto-record programs that were on channels you actually receive. That's some pretty basic DVR functionality that the HR2x series fails at accomplishing.


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