# Revolution 10/8/12 "Plague Dogs"



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Well, the previews had something that should make some people awfully happy...


Spoiler



Choo choo!


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Yes after all the bickering in the thread for episode 3, I hope people are a little happy after seeing the preview for episode 5.

I see they also mentioned in this episode that the ships were used in the war(or was it wars?) and whatever was left was used for firewood.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> I see they also mentioned in this episode that the ships were used in the war(or was it wars?) and whatever was left was used for firewood.


The man said "wars".
He also said that ships were cut up for wood or taken by the militias.

I was surprised at the fact that the glass doors of the diner were still intact.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Really hated the "threat" this episode. Just had nothing to do with the main story, and wasn't real interesting. 

I think they have enough story to tell with the present quest(s?), and the flashbacks about how things got to where they are now, without inserting pointless hurdles.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

So people are really dumb and decide to tear down ships rather than make use of them for the incredible asset that they would be?

We now know that the country was not so dangerous that a single woman couldn't walk across it and halfway back again.

I was actually fairly shocked by the death. Between that and the way that some characters weren't introduced in episode 1, I'm starting to feel like they are actually planning out the arc for some or all characters in advance. That makes me feel a bit warm and fuzzy.

Miles seems to have arbitrary levels of badassitude. This episode his skills were nerfed and he seemed to have trouble completely dominating combat as he has done in the past.

The chair / rube goldberg booby trap was silly due to poor filming. You could clearly see that she would have no problems dodging the arrow by simply ducking and leaning to one side.

I'm still on the fence about this show. Some aspects I actually enjoy quite a bit but then the gaping chasm of questions creeps in, or a way-too-long, cliched action plot pops up.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> So people are really dumb and decide to tear down ships rather than make use of them for the incredible asset that they would be?
> 
> ..........................


So if it's the middle of winter and you have no source of heat, what else do you do? Heat is a priority. Sailing across the ocean isn't. Especially since it would serve no purpose to go to an area that is probably worse off than the US. Plus you would need alot of supplies to go across the Atlantic. Survival is the number one priority. And if it was Winter, with several feet of snow, you are going to use the most readily avilable source of heat.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> So if it's the middle of winter and you have no source of heat, what else do you do? Heat is a priority. Sailing across the ocean isn't. Especially since it would serve no purpose to go to an area that is probably worse off than the US. Plus you would need alot of supplies to go across the Atlantic. It wouldn't be worth the effort in the situation the world is in.


Who says you have to sail across the ocean with the ship or even use it in winter? Seems to me that transportation is extremely valuable and tearing down a boat for firewood is about the dumbest move possible.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> Who says you have to sail across the ocean with the ship or even use it in winter? Seems to me that transportation is extremely valuable and tearing down a boat for firewood is about the dumbest move possible.


If the choice is to die from freezing and save a boat or live and destroy the boat I think the answer is simple. I don't see how surviving would be a dumb move. That would be a smart move.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

aaronwt said:


> If the choice is to die from freezing and save a boat or live and destroy the boat I think the answer is simple. I don't see how surviving would be a dumb move. That would be a smart move.


Then again, there are probably a lot more sources of wood (and dryer wood at that!) available. I would tear down vacant houses, of which there must be millions, before I tore apart boats.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Then again, there are probably a lot more sources of wood (and dryer wood at that!) available. I would tear down vacant houses, of which there must be millions, before I tore apart boats.


I would probably also tear down the dock first, thus making it rather difficult to tear down the boat. The logistics of doing that are quite impressive, come to think of it.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

I was wondering how they going to get past Maggie's nicked artery, with no blood or plasma handy. Hey - problem solved.

And, I'm sure that Googledy-Man had no trouble becoming an instant surgeon.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

RGM1138 said:


> And, I'm sure that Googledy-Man had no trouble becoming an instant surgeon.


Obviously he didn't become a very good one!


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Obviously he didn't become a very good one!


Maybe he used the wrong search engine.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

RGM1138 said:


> I was wondering how they going to get past Maggie's nicked artery, with no blood or plasma handy. Hey - problem solved.
> 
> And, I'm sure that Googledy-Man had no trouble becoming an instant surgeon.


As soon as they said nicked artery I expected her to die. Since there is no way they could have repiared it since the doctor was the one that was injured.


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> As soon as they said nicked artery I expected her to die. Since there is no way they could have repiared it since the doctor was the one that was injured.


I knew because the previews keep saying that one character will die.


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## Cereal_Killer (Jan 5, 2007)

dtle said:


> I knew because the previews keep saying that one character will die.


Darn! I think they killed off the wrong female.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Who says you have to sail across the ocean with the ship or even use it in winter? Seems to me that transportation is extremely valuable and tearing down a boat for firewood is about the dumbest move possible.


There aren't that many wooden ships anymore anyway. Seems to me that someone could take a steel-hulled ship and retrofit it relatively easily to have sails. No reason any of that has to be done with wood. Or if they simply used some telephone poles as the masts but the rest of the ship were metal, that's not enough wood to warrant destroying the ship.


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## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

There you go again, applying logic to this show. 

I thought it would have been nice for Google boy to use his amulet to fire up the iPhone one last time to her to see kids pictures as she expired. But that would have let Charlie and Miles in on the secret.

Dave


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mrdbdigital said:


> There you go again, applying logic to this show.
> 
> I thought it would have been nice for Google boy to use his amulet to fire up the iPhone one last time to her to see kids pictures as she expired. But that would have let Charlie and Miles in on the secret.
> 
> Dave


I'm not sure Aaron knows how to fire up the amulet. IIRC, it just came on by itself when they were at Grace's house. But as you said, he wanted to keep it secret from Miles and Charlie, and now that Maggie is dead, he has full control over his secret.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

mrdbdigital said:


> I thought it would have been nice for Google boy to use his amulet to fire up the iPhone one last time to her to see kids pictures as she expired. But that would have let Charlie and Miles in on the secret.


I was half-surprised he didn't try and turn it on for her. Or for her to forget his notion that they should keep it a secret and ask, as her dying wish, to activate the amulet so that she could see her kids one last time.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> Who says you have to sail across the ocean with the ship or even use it in winter? Seems to me that transportation is extremely valuable and tearing down a boat for firewood is about the dumbest move possible.





aaronwt said:


> If the choice is to die from freezing and save a boat or live and destroy the boat I think the answer is simple. I don't see how surviving would be a dumb move. That would be a smart move.


Don't you remember the Siberians, when they were faced with freezing to death, tore apart the railroads to get at the ties, to burn to keep warm. That was destroying their best chance of getting more supplies in, but when you are going to die, immediate priorities overrule common sense about future needs.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Church AV Guy said:


> Don't you remember the Siberians, when they were faced with freezing to death, tore apart the railroads to get at the ties, to burn to keep warm. That was destroying their best chance of getting more supplies in, but when you are going to die, immediate priorities overrule common sense about future needs.


But again, there's all kinds of wood all around, and most of it easier to get at than wood that's floating in the water.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But again, there's all kinds of wood all around, and most of it easier to get at than wood that's floating in the water.


I would assume the major reason for lack of boats was the "wars" and not for firewood.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

This particular episode really felt "JJ Abrahms'ish" to me, just like lost, with the constant flashbacks right in the middle of the action.


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## squint (Jun 15, 2008)

There's tons of sailboats with fiberglass hulls that are capable of sailing between continents if they can avoid stormy weather.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

squint said:


> There's tons of sailboats with fiberglass hulls that are capable of sailing between continents if they can avoid stormy weather.


Like somebody else said: Why would you? These people are still in survival mode not in expedition mode. Risk would be way higher than reward.

not to mention the needed supplies, time and knowledge to do so.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> ...We now know that the country was not so dangerous that a single woman couldn't walk across it and halfway back again...


This was my problem...maybe there was some "window" of time far enough past the initial chaos but before the militas grab hold, that people could just wonder around...

That seemed to go against the story they were initially trying to tell and why I thought the militias taking over would make sense (to provide instant safety).


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

How long would it take a modern sailboat to make that journey? It took columbus about five weeks, supposedly. That's a lot of supplies. Unless things are going well overseas I don't see why they would even have made that journey past the first couple of weeks.

Boats being sunken or used during strife makes a lot more sense to me.


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

pmyers said:


> This was my problem...maybe there was some "window" of time far enough past the initial chaos but before the militas grab hold, that people could just wonder around...
> 
> That seemed to go against the story they were initially trying to tell and why I thought the militias taking over would make sense (to provide instant safety).


My thinking is the trip from Seattle to Buffalo is over unpopulated areas. Assuming she went the Canadian route (which avoids Chicago and Detroit), she only has to deal with Toronto. And you all know, those Canadians are _really _nice people.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Sounds cold. She must have found a boat in seattle to tear down for firewood before making the trip through canada.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Given what we know about the state of things at that point (approximately 6-12 months after the blackout), I doubt anyone could stockpile enough supplies to make a transoceanic journey. They're likely living day to day, scrounging for food and supplies just to stay alive.

Walking from Seattle to Buffalo without seeing many people would be relatively easy. And don't forget that she carried poison whiskey. I'm guessing she decided to do that after being attacked the first time, and she probably had occasion to use it more than once during the rest of her journeys.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I guess I missed the part where she said she traveled for Seattle to Buffalo. Dang that's a long walk!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

pmyers said:


> I guess I missed the part where she said she traveled for Seattle to Buffalo. Dang that's a long walk!


The scene where she was Skyping with her kids when the power went out showed the Space Needle out her hotel window.* Later, she told the guy in Buffalo that she had been in Montana. He said, "Wow, that's a long way to walk," and she said, "I actually started in Seattle." Then when she couldn't get a boat in Buffalo, she said she walked up and down the whole eastern seaboard looking for a boat, and eventually ended up back in Chicago, so clearly she's put a lot of miles on her shoes.

*Did anyone else find it odd that she was telling her kids in England that it was time to go to bed, yet the sky outside her window in Seattle looked like it was just getting dark. If it's bedtime (~9 pm) in London, shouldn't it be midday in Seattle?


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> The scene where she was Skyping with her kids when the power went out showed the Space Needle out her hotel window.* Later, she told the guy in Buffalo that she had been in Montana. He said, "Wow, that's a long way to walk," and she said, "I actually started in Seattle." Then when she couldn't get a boat in Buffalo, she said she walked up and down the whole eastern seaboard looking for a boat, and eventually ended up back in Chicago, so clearly she's put a lot of miles on her shoes...


I remember the scene I just didn't hear/understand the locations. That is impressive.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Cereal_Killer said:


> Darn! I think they killed off the wrong female.


They definitely killed off the wrong woman. I still can't stand Charlie. I'll try one more episode and then I'm probably out.

You'd think there'd be a bicycle or two on this show.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

DevdogAZ said:


> The scene where she was Skyping with her kids when the power went out showed the Space Needle out her hotel window.* Later, she told the guy in Buffalo that she had been in Montana. He said, "Wow, that's a long way to walk," and she said, "I actually started in Seattle." Then when she couldn't get a boat in Buffalo, she said she walked up and down the whole eastern seaboard looking for a boat, and eventually ended up back in Chicago, so clearly she's put a lot of miles on her shoes.
> 
> *Did anyone else find it odd that she was telling her kids in England that it was time to go to bed, yet the sky outside her window in Seattle looked like it was just getting dark. If it's bedtime (~9 pm) in London, shouldn't it be midday in Seattle?


TV magic. When it's bed time, it's night time everywhere.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> ...You'd think there'd be a bicycle or two on this show.


...chased by a train...oh wait


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> They definitely killed off the wrong woman. I still can't stand Charlie. I'll try one more episode and then I'm probably out.
> 
> You'd think there'd be a bicycle or two on this show.


I agree. I also can't get past the fact that Charlie looks older than than Nora. I also get tired of looking at her face. It seems to me that they Googled "ugly actresses" and then hired them. At least the doctor lady had a cool accent.

What did the scary torture instrument dude do the momma? She didn't seem to have any wounds afterwards. She was sitting very still on that couch however and very stoically if she was in any kind of pain. We also didn't see her hands, so I wonder if they are removing fingers.


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## Tsiehta (Jul 22, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> *Did anyone else find it odd that she was telling her kids in England that it was time to go to bed, yet the sky outside her window in Seattle looked like it was just getting dark. If it's bedtime (~9 pm) in London, shouldn't it be midday in Seattle?


Not to mention that the view outside her window, looking at the Needle with the city behind it, is looking southeast. I took it to mean sunset, and just thought that the show got the orientation wrong. BUT, upon reflection, I suppose she could have just been getting in from a late night out on the town. I know, nitpicky stuff.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Stormspace said:


> I also get tired of looking at her face. It seems to me that they Googled "ugly actresses" and then hired them.


One thing that is realistic is the women don't wear any makeup. That could be partly why they are so unattractive. Of course, I suppose really hot women look great without makeup.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Tsiehta said:


> Not to mention that the view outside her window, looking at the Needle with the city behind it, is looking southeast. I took it to mean sunset, and just thought that the show got the orientation wrong. BUT, upon reflection, I suppose she could have just been getting in from a late night out on the town. I know, nitpicky stuff.


If it was sunrise, then why are her kids going to bed in London in the middle of the afternoon?


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> If it was sunrise, then why are her kids going to bed in London in the middle of the afternoon?


you have too much free time


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> One thing that is realistic is the women don't wear any makeup. That could be partly why they are so unattractive. Of course, I suppose really hot women look great without makeup.


They still have makeup on. At least it certainly looks like it in HD. Just not alot.

Personally I hate it when women wear a bunch of makeup. Now that is ugly when a woman has their face plastered with a bunch of makeup. And I guess men are starting to use makeup too. At least I read that somewhere. Using a bunch of makeup makes about as much sense as wearing high heeled shoes.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

dtle said:


> My thinking is the trip from Seattle to Buffalo is over unpopulated areas. Assuming she went the Canadian route (which avoids Chicago and Detroit), she only has to deal with Toronto. And you all know, those Canadians are _really _nice people.


No, not the %#*@&! Leafs fans.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Just had a conversation with a cow-orker who is a big gun fanatic and does all of his own reloading. He said it's very plausible that after 15 years of no electricity, gun powder that is suitable for modern firearms would be hard to come by, because it requires some complicated chemical processes that likely can't be done without electricity. So people would be left with making black powder, which is too volatile for modern weapons but works fine in muzzle loader guns that are much less precise.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Just had a conversation with a cow-orker who is a big gun fanatic and does all of his own reloading. He said it's very plausible that after 15 years of no electricity, gun powder that is suitable for modern firearms would be hard to come by, because it requires some complicated chemical processes that likely can't be done without electricity. So people would be left with making black powder, which is too volatile for modern weapons but works fine in muzzle loader guns that are much less precise.


If that's true, then the show should have mentioned it to make it easier for folks like me to buy into it.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> If that's true, then the show should have mentioned it to make it easier for folks like me to buy into it.


I kind of agree, but then again, if they addressed every issue we've raised, the four episodes so far would have consisted mostly of physics lectures.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> If that's true, then the show should have mentioned it to make it easier for folks like me to buy into it.


They basically did in episode three. That's why I just mentioned it, because my cow-orker basically confirmed what the Jeremy character told us in the show.


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## Cereal_Killer (Jan 5, 2007)

Stormspace said:


> What did the scary torture instrument dude do the momma? She didn't seem to have any wounds afterwards. She was sitting very still on that couch however and very stoically if she was in any kind of pain. We also didn't see her hands, so I wonder if they are removing fingers.


That was a very strange scene. She looked absolutely fine to me and in fact looked kind of bored.

I think if her fingers were missing she would be crying or at least holding them in pain. If she was actually tortured and looked that mellow, she is one tough hombre!

I wonder if the producers messed up a scene or two?


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

stellie93 said:


> One thing that is realistic is the women don't wear any makeup. That could be partly why they are so unattractive. Of course, I suppose really hot women look great without makeup.


While Charlie could benefit from makeup, it's not just the make up. Charlie is not a pretty girl. I put her in the same category as Jeri Ryan who is also not a pretty woman. In Jeri's case she has a rocking hot body to offset a rather plain looking face, and she wears makeup well.

The doctor is also quite plain looking. I thought she had pretty hair and liked her for her accent, not to mention she seemed inwardly very scrappy and capable. Charlie is just whiny, and that's a big turn off.

I don't have a good feel for Nora. So far, she's just there. Since they really aren't spending any time on her I suspect she isn't going to be around long.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Was anyone, except Danny, surprised when the captain recaptured Danny as soon as he dragged cap to safety? Well, he is Charlie's brother. It must run in the family.


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## squint (Jun 15, 2008)

TAsunder said:


> How long would it take a modern sailboat to make that journey? It took columbus about five weeks, supposedly. That's a lot of supplies. Unless things are going well overseas I don't see why they would even have made that journey past the first couple of weeks.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_sailing_record


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Just had a conversation with a cow-orker who is a big gun fanatic and does all of his own reloading. He said it's very plausible that after 15 years of no electricity, gun powder that is suitable for modern firearms would be hard to come by, because it requires some complicated chemical processes that likely can't be done without electricity. So people would be left with making black powder, which is too volatile for modern weapons but works fine in muzzle loader guns that are much less precise.


I do remember on Sons of Guns them talking about modern day gun powder versus black powder and how different they are.

Thanks for the explanation.


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

Personally I was hoping Google-boy really _would_ die of Rabies. He just bugs me; even in a sheltered commune there's no way he'd still be so cubicle-fresh after 15 years of this...



cheesesteak said:


> If that's true, then the show should have mentioned it to make it easier for folks like me to buy into it.


I was aware of the gunpowder issue, but I figured that the large stockpiles wouldn't have run out, especially if Monroe and the other militias started off sitting on them. However, I think the implication from the ship thing is that the inter-militia wars were a lot larger in scale than I was originally thinking, which makes ammo depletion more plausible.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

squint said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_sailing_record


A lot faster than I thought. But I imagine most of the boats used in the actual record breaking were not big passenger boats, and I also assume they had electronic equipment to help navigate if needed. Still, it probably wouldn't take 5 weeks. Especially not on the type of boats leftover after the horde of boy scouts broke up all the wooden frigates to make campfires.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

dcheesi said:


> Personally I was hoping Google-boy really _would_ die of Rabies. He just bugs me; even in a sheltered commune there's no way he'd still be so cubicle-fresh after 15 years of this...
> 
> .........


IF he got rabies he might not show any effects for a long time. The incubation period can be as long as six years. But once the symptoms show he would be dead in less than a couple of weeks.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

pmyers said:


> This was my problem...maybe there was some "window" of time far enough past the initial chaos but before the militas grab hold, that people could just wonder around...
> 
> That seemed to go against the story they were initially trying to tell and why I thought the militias taking over would make sense (to provide instant safety).


Given the scene they cut to right after Ben stopped Maggie from committing suicide, I'm thinking Ben met Maggie when his kids were not more than a few years younger, most likely somewhere between 1 and 2.

That, plus all the ships having already been destroyed, many in wars, seems to indicate that Maggie traveled across the country after most of the militias had settled into their territories.

Once the militias had taken control, bandits would have been far less of an issue, so Maggie could have traveled with relative safety. We only know about Monroe's militia so far, but even if most of them were as power-hungry as his, they wouldn't care about some woman traveling across the country trying to find a way across the Atlantic. So the militias wouldn't have been a problem for her either.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

dcheesi said:


> ...I was aware of the gunpowder issue, but I figured that the large stockpiles wouldn't have run out, especially if Monroe and the other militias started off sitting on them. However, I think the implication from the ship thing is that the inter-militia wars were a lot larger in scale than I was originally thinking, which makes ammo depletion more plausible.


I was also thinking that the grunts on routine patrol are probably given the black powder rifles and the "real" weapons might be stored for bigger problems such as issues with other militias. An example would be that one guy that had the sniper rifle. He wasn't your average grunt.


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

pmyers said:


> I was also thinking that the grunts on routine patrol are probably given the black powder rifles and the "real" weapons might be stored for bigger problems such as issues with other militias. An example would be that one guy that had the sniper rifle. He wasn't your average grunt.


My only problem with that is that in the Pilot some of the special troops sent to look for the Mathesons still had black-powder guns. Seems like such an important mission would warrant issuing some decent weaponry (at least equal to a random prison warden on a work detail).


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Loved how Monroe and the mom were having the same insipid conversation for 10-15 years now. I am pretty sure my 9 year old could have written a better dialogue. 

I just wish google boy had told Maggie to keep the secret because the show needs the drama later. This would be at least more plausible than the reason he did give.

Sorry about the thread crapping. I don't know why I won't stop watching. this show is just awful.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> While Charlie could benefit from makeup, it's not just the make up. Charlie is not a pretty girl.


I don't have a problem with her looks, but as an actor, she is killing this show for me. She seems way out of her league, skill-wise. She can't express any range of emotions other than a grimace. She brings nothing to the show as far as I'm concerned, and because they seem to be making her the lead character, it has made it a bubble show for me.

Additionally, the writers aren't helping. I refuse to believe after 15 years that people aren't more hardened, more cynical, more world-weary and resigned to the new order of life. And I say this regardless of how sheltered someone might have been. Yet her character plays this sob-sister weepie, who wants to save everyone and their dog. That's *really* making things tough for me, as I find that approach to life unbelievable in this new world.

I keep watching, hoping it will get better, as I like the premise. I would guess another ep or two will decide for me.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Charlie isn't ugly. She just makes ugly faces sometimes.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

I liked her better than usual this ep. Probably because she was gagged for several minutes.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

BitbyBlit said:


> Once the militias had taken control, bandits would have been far less of an issue, so Maggie could have traveled with relative safety. We only know about Monroe's militia so far, but even if most of them were as power-hungry as his, they wouldn't care about some woman traveling across the country trying to find a way across the Atlantic. So the militias wouldn't have been a problem for her either.


If what we've seen in the first few episodes is any indication, "relative safety" still means incredibly unsafe. Or maybe Monroe is actually a pretty crappy militia leader and sucks at protecting his subjects. This would make sense given what his minions do.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

dcheesi said:


> Personally I was hoping Google-boy really _would_ die of Rabies. He just bugs me; even in a sheltered commune there's no way he'd still be so cubicle-fresh after 15 years of this...
> 
> I was aware of the gunpowder issue, but I figured that the large stockpiles wouldn't have run out, especially if Monroe and the other militias started off sitting on them. However, I think the implication from the ship thing is that the inter-militia wars were a lot larger in scale than I was originally thinking, which makes ammo depletion more plausible.


If he is the teacher, traditionally teachers survived on donations from the students families or from the community at large and lived pretty good. He wouldn't have had a hard life in the fields like others would have.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Stormspace said:


> If he is the teacher, traditionally teachers survived on donations from the students families or from the community at large and lived pretty good. He wouldn't have had a hard life in the fields like others would have.


Makes sense, especially since by no stretch of suspension of belief can I imagine Google Guy in the fields.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

astrohip said:


> I don't have a problem with her looks, but as an actor, she is killing this show for me. She seems way out of her league, skill-wise. She can't express any range of emotions other than a grimace.


Maybe that's it. I guess if she had a more pleasant demeanor...

Charlie is just making stupid decisions. Decisions that would have gotten her killed way earlier than now. She should have learned years ago about survival in the post blackout era or she'd already be dead and even if she was sheltered she should have heard other people talking about their experiences in the outside world.

PS: Oh, and we need some train explanations.


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

I think a lot of the problem is the 15 year gap. I could certainly see a person thrust into a dystopian world to still think like a "civilized" person. But after 15 years, they would either be toughened up, or dead.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

allan said:


> I think a lot of the problem is the 15 year gap. I could certainly see a person thrust into a dystopian world to still think like a "civilized" person. But after 15 years, they would either be toughened up, or dead.


Well one explenation could be that she was very young (so sheltered) when things first started and then at some point they were in a community (so sheltered again) so there wasn't a lot of time to get hardened. The dad did say that he never let her off the grounds so her world would be pretty small.

The people they are meeting, do seem to be hardened which leads to some validity to that.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> Charlie isn't ugly. She just makes ugly faces sometimes.


This...I actually like her looks.


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

She's plain Jane. Wouldn't kick her out of the bed, though.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

astrohip said:


> Additionally, the writers aren't helping. I refuse to believe after 15 years that people aren't more hardened, more cynical, more world-weary and resigned to the new order of life. And I say this regardless of how sheltered someone might have been. Yet her character plays this sob-sister weepie, who wants to save everyone and their dog. That's *really* making things tough for me, as I find that approach to life unbelievable in this new world.


Not saying they're right, but I think they're doing it on purpose. Charlie is supposed to have lived in a peaceful community all her life (maybe part of the deal for her mother to go to Miles' camp is that the militia would protect the community, or something) and not allowed contact with the "real world". I think they're trying to set her up as very naive and we're supposed to understand this new world by learning about it as she does... she's representing our "sheltered" viewpoint.

Or, maybe it's just bad writing


----------



## GameGuru (Dec 12, 2003)

I have seen some hot pictures of of her, and I am on my phone so can't wait easy post them but you can Google them.


----------



## andyw715 (Jul 31, 2007)

cheesesteak said:


> Charlie isn't ugly. She just makes ugly faces sometimes.


She's much better looking in person. We've seen her and some of the crew around town.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

you guys are crazy. She is very pretty. Heck, at this rate, she's the only reason I still watch.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Has there ever been a show so stupid not even a pretty girl could make Anubys watch?


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Has there ever been a show so stupid not even a pretty girl could make Anubys watch?


Network executives continue on their quest to find such a rare show!


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> Network executives continue on their quest to find such a rare show!


It must be disheartening for them to try so hard, year after year, only to fail...


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Anubys said:


> you guys are crazy. She is very pretty. Heck, at this rate, she's the only reason I still watch.


Hey, for the record, see my post above. I agree...


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> If what we've seen in the first few episodes is any indication, "relative safety" still means incredibly unsafe. Or maybe Monroe is actually a pretty crappy militia leader and sucks at protecting his subjects. This would make sense given what his minions do.


Charlie and the others are trying to avoid the militia, so I'm assuming they are taking back roads that are less traveled and populated, which is why they've bumped into folks of a less than savory nature. And in some cases they have gone out of their way to go to dangerous areas for information.

I think if Maggie traveled with groups of people from town to town during the day on main travel routes, she wouldn't have had the same problems.


----------



## RickStrobel (Jan 19, 2000)

Any explanation as to why Charlie's mom turned herself in?


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

RickStrobel said:


> Any explanation as to why Charlie's mom turned herself in?


I ASSume there will be. For now, all we can do is speculate, and/or state that it's unrealistic.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

RickStrobel said:


> Any explanation as to why Charlie's mom turned herself in?


They were rounding up all the Hawt women? Makes sense given Nora, Charlie, and the Doctor were free.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

allan said:


> I ASSume there will be. For now, all we can do is speculate, *and/or state that it's unrealistic*.


Ha! :up:


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, the previews had something that should make some people awfully happy...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Actually...



Spoiler



I was pissed, because, no sooner do we see a train, than the "good guys" are talking about the need to destroy it. How many working trains do you suppose are left in that world? And from what we've seen, it doesn't look like they're building new ones. I don't care how oppressive the Monroe Republic is, destroying that train is a crime against humanity.


----------



## Flop (Dec 2, 2005)

I'm getting really sick of everyone talking about saving the brother (Danny?) like it is the one thing that will restore the world to normal. Just waiting for the "Save the brother, save the world!" promos to begin. Even people who really have no vested interest in rescuing him talk about him like he must be the second coming. Charlie, I just want to smack the frown off her face and tell her to grow up and to stop whining like she was Sandra Fluke wanting free birth control.


----------



## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

wmcbrine said:


> Actually...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But...


Spoiler



As I said in an earlier thread, isn't having a working train only half the solution? You have to maintain the tracks, and the trestles, as well. Note that smaller bridges seem to be holding up well, but, for example, San Francisco's Bay Bridge (at least the suspension spans) seems to be in ruins.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Just a quick note -- the old fisherman said they took the ships apart "for lumber". He did not say firewood.

Also, I think the casting of the "young Charlie" was very good; she really looks like her (I checked, they are not related). The older Charlie has a lot of wrinkles on her forehead. Maybe why people are saying she looks way older than she's supposed to be.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

life is a lot harder on a face when there is no electricity.


----------



## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

I am, frankly, surprised at how much of the discussion is about whether the female characters are attractive or not.

Seriously. Are we really that shallow that we can't enjoy a story if we aren't attracted to the female leads, guys? How on earth did Rosanne stay on the air for so many years?


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Hi! Welcome to TCF!
You must be new here...


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Ereth said:


> How on earth did Rosanne stay on the air for so many years?


It wasn't MY fault, I didn't watch that show.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Ereth said:


> I am, frankly, surprised at how much of the discussion is about whether the female characters are attractive or not.
> 
> Seriously. Are we really that shallow that we can't enjoy a story if we aren't attracted to the female leads, guys? How on earth did Rosanne stay on the air for so many years?


Roseanne was a comedy show. Roseanne Barr was funny, as were the other actors. The writing was good.

This is a, umm, help me out, here. Is this a sci fi show? It certainly promised to be one. Or is it a quest/adventure show? Or a drama piece about post-apocalyptic society? When a show has good writing/acting/casting you don't really care *what* she show is. This is not the case here. Bad writing and bad acting almost all around.

ETA: Not surprisingly, it's getting great ratings.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

steve614 said:


> It wasn't MY fault, I didn't watch that show.


Nor I....and yes, Ereth, welcome to TCF. You MUST be new here....



wprager said:


> ...Roseanne Barr was funny....


Wow...could not disagree more...ugh...


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

wprager said:


> This is a, umm, help me out, here. Is this a sci fi show? It certainly promised to be one. Or is it a quest/adventure show? Or a drama piece about post-apocalyptic society? When a show has good writing/acting/casting you don't really care *what* she show is. This is not the case here. Bad writing and bad acting almost all around.


Can you have a sci fi show with no electrical power?


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Ereth said:


> I am, frankly, surprised at how much of the discussion is about whether the female characters are attractive or not.
> 
> Seriously. Are we really that shallow that we can't enjoy a story if we aren't attracted to the female leads, guys? How on earth did Rosanne stay on the air for so many years?


Please also refer to the award winning "Leah Rimini is Fat" thread


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Ereth said:


> I am, frankly, surprised at how much of the discussion is about whether the female characters are attractive or not.
> 
> Seriously. Are we really that shallow that we can't enjoy a story if we aren't attracted to the female leads, guys? How on earth did Rosanne stay on the air for so many years?


I concur with the posters who countered that the Rosanne show was good and therefore merited watching while this one is bad in almost every way...etc.

But, to respond to the larger point, why can't we be both? In general, people here at TCF can be extremely deep and amazingly shallow at the same time. We can discuss with vigor, knowledge, and depth either Existentialism or the relative size of a woman's breasts. It's what's great about this community.

Given the depth of the show, I'm not surprised that we spent a large amount of time discussing trains in both historical and technical perspectives. I'm also perfectly happy discussing a girl's relative beauty for hours.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

wprager said:


> Roseanne was a comedy show. Roseanne Barr was funny, as were the other actors. The writing was good.
> 
> This is a, umm, help me out, here. Is this a sci fi show? It certainly promised to be one. Or is it a quest/adventure show? Or a drama piece about post-apocalyptic society? When a show has good writing/acting/casting you don't really care *what* she show is. This is not the case here. Bad writing and bad acting almost all around.
> 
> ETA: Not surprisingly, it's getting great ratings.


According to Eric Kripke, it is a quest/adventure show. He's described it as a post-modern Americanized Lord of the Rings hero quest tale, where electricity is a stand-in for magic.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

the comparison to LOTR is pretty good, because this show is nothing but people walking.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

pmyers said:


> Please also refer to the _*award winning*_ "Leah Rimini is Fat" thread


Didn't it win the Shiva?


----------



## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

Ereth said:


> How on earth did Rosanne stay on the air for so many years?


This is one of the great, unsolved mysteries of the universe! 

Dave


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> If the choice is to die from freezing and save a boat or live and destroy the boat I think the answer is simple. I don't see how surviving would be a dumb move. That would be a smart move.


How about using the boat for shelter?


----------



## Win Joy Jr (Oct 1, 2001)

Just caught up on the past 2 episodes. The "Is Miles good or bad" line has not gotten too old, yet. We do know that the rise of the militia's did not start until a number of months after the event. So my theory of the government falling then the militia's rising is still in play. Now, I was surprised that Miles and Monroe were still on base at 3 months post event. Liked the reference that they were still waiting on orders at 3 months.

Still no info on the numbers of lives lost except for the opening voice over.

The amusement park scenes were wrong. After 15 years a Ferris wheel will not still be standing with the gondolas attached. Steel coaster? I'll give them that. Plus the buildings still having their windows intact? Nope...

Still watching...


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

which amusement park did they use ?

it looks like an actual amusement park that had been abandoned.


----------



## Win Joy Jr (Oct 1, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> which amusement park did they use ?
> 
> it looks like an actual amusement park that had been abandoned.


Yeah, looked like it was shot on location.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Anubys said:


> We can discuss with vigor, knowledge, and depth either Existentialism or the relative size of a woman's breasts.


Boobs and Existentialism in the same thread/post/sentence.

Life is good!


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Win Joy Jr said:


> Just caught up on the past 2 episodes. The "Is Miles good or bad" line has not gotten too old, yet. We do know that the rise of the militia's did not start until a number of months after the event. So my theory of the government falling then the militia's rising is still in play. Now, I was surprised that Miles and Monroe were still on base at 3 months post event. Liked the reference that they were still waiting on orders at 3 months.
> 
> Still no info on the numbers of lives lost except for the opening voice over.
> 
> ...


Actually they might be. On the show "Life after people" there was an epsiode where they were at an abandoned amusement park or something like that many years after being abandonded. And I think things like that were still intact, many years later.

Another area that was abandoned where they get abandonded data from was the area around Chernobyl that was abandoned.


----------



## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

How did Danny know that there was going to be that major storm?

Why did he warn them? Getting caught in a storm would create a major diversion giving hime better chance to escape.

Was that storm an oddity of the new world? It did not look like your average tornado.

Danny boy not only saved his captor he also got his father killed. Why should I root for his escape?

They need a better quest than saving Danny.

How did Maggie survive the Forrest Gump nation criss-crossing and our heros get nearly killed off every episode?

Why do I keep watching this?


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Yeah, Danny's an idiot. I'd have left Gus Fring under that tornado debris pile and skedaddled out of there.


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> Yeah, Danny's an idiot. I'd have left Gus Fring under that tornado debris pile and skedaddled out of there.


^This, this, this!


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

astrohip said:


> Boobs and Existentialism in the same thread/post/sentence.
> 
> Life is good!


I have a new sig....


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Johnny Dancing said:


> How did Danny know that there was going to be that major storm?
> 
> Why did he warn them? Getting caught in a storm would create a major diversion giving hime better chance to escape.
> 
> ...


I thought it was interesting that we were shown lightning as the storm gathered. Someone needs to get out there with a kite and a key.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

astrohip said:


> Boobs and Existentialism in the same thread/post/sentence.
> 
> Life is good!


Breasts and the secret of life are inextricably intertwined.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Johnny Dancing said:


> How did Danny know that there was going to be that major storm?


They gave at least a nod to explaining this with a throwaway line from Danny, something like "Didn't you feel the shift in the air?" or similar. It was enough for me.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

danterner said:


> I thought it was interesting that we were shown lightning as the storm gathered. Someone needs to get out there with a kite and a key.


LOL


----------



## Flop (Dec 2, 2005)

I fast forwarded through a lot of this episode, so might have missed it. In the pilot, Danny's asthma seemed fairly severe and it was easy to trigger an attack, yet hiding in a dusty cellar that collapsed and dumped even more dust into the air did not trigger an attack. I do not know anyone with asthma, so don't know how realistic the portrayal is, but it seems to me that if the dust in the motor home of the pilot triggered an attack, being in that cellar sure would have as well.


----------



## amcanzo (Nov 12, 2004)

jsmeeker said:


> which amusement park did they use ?
> 
> it looks like an actual amusement park that had been abandoned.


Hard Rock Park/Freestyle Music Park, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA" 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freestyle_Music_Park
It was last open in 2009


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

amcanzo said:


> Hard Rock Park/Freestyle Music Park, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA"
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freestyle_Music_Park
> It was last open in 2009


reminds me of that thread/pictures here on TCF of that abandoned amusement park in Louisianna.


----------



## Win Joy Jr (Oct 1, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> Actually they might be. On the show "Life after people" there was an epsiode where they were at an abandoned amusement park or something like that many years after being abandonded. And I think things like that were still intact, many years later.
> 
> Another area that was abandoned where they get abandonded data from was the area around Chernobyl that was abandoned.


Actually, I was coming back and retract that assessment. Six Flags amusement park in New Orleans, which was abondoned after hurricane Katrina, has a Ferris wheel which is still standing 7 years later...


----------



## Win Joy Jr (Oct 1, 2001)

danterner said:


> I thought it was interesting that we were shown lightning as the storm gathered. Someone needs to get out there with a kite and a key.


I TOTALLY missed that. Is naturally occurring electrical activity still present in absence of other electrical activity?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Win Joy Jr said:


> I TOTALLY missed that. Is naturally occurring electrical activity still present in absence of other electrical activity?


Humans are still alive, so it must be.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

They must be able to generate static electricity too.


----------



## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

pmyers said:


> Like somebody else said: Why would you? These people are still in survival mode not in expedition mode. Risk would be way higher than reward.
> 
> not to mention the needed supplies, time and knowledge to do so.


It does bother me that so much of the nitpicking and people patting themselves on the back for being "logical" continually ignore the reality of security, food, water and shelter being the only concerns for almost everyone for a very long time. So when people mock the show for not taking of steam train museums or retrofitting ships with sails but always fail to explain how any of those things contribute to the basic and constantly pressing need for protection, shelter, food of water. I just feel like some people who continually have a go at the show seriously do not grasp the gravity and all encompassing need to survive first. People worried about these eccentric, in relative terms, plans and luxuries will perish. People will kill each other over resources or the threats of using resources. Someone trying to make sails will be killed for being crazy, wasting resources and being an easy target.

Finally there is a lot we obviously do not know. It is weird that some almost seem like the first 180 minutes of the show should have been a detailed documentary of the last fifteen years and not a story that picked up fifteen years after an earth shattering event. So for me the most faulty I logic i see comes from the criticisms by people who seemingly really have a misguided handle on human nature and how people might behave and that revolution should have unfolded in a way that would have made it not a story but a fictional documentary that nobody would care about.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

marksman said:


> ...Finally there is a lot we obviously do not know. It is weird that some almost seem like the first 180 minutes of the show should have been a detailed documentary of the last fifteen years and not a story that picked up fifteen years after an earth shattering event. So for me the most faulty I logic i see comes from the criticisms by people who seemingly really have a misguided handle on human nature and how people might behave and that revolution should have unfolded in a way that would have made it not a story but a fictional documentary that nobody would care about.


Well, _somebody_ needs to know what happened during the last 15 years. The characters don't seem to.

Teacher Aaron just happens to be asking the kids if they're curious about why the power went out _after 15 years?_

Monroe decides he needs to send a squad to bring in Ben hisself _after 15 years?_ after he imprisoned Ben's wife Rachel to ask _for 15 years?_ what Ben knows.

After _15 years_, would Rachel and Monroe still be "Are you going to ask me the same questions again?" and then torture her to get her to answer...._for 15 years?_

Dying Ben tells Charlie and all to find his lost brother Miles _after 15 years?_

Ben gives the amulet up _after 15 years?_


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

marksman said:


> ...Finally there is a lot we obviously do not know. It is weird that some almost seem like the first 180 minutes of the show should have been a detailed documentary of the last fifteen years and not a story that picked up fifteen years after an earth shattering event. So for me the most faulty I logic i see comes from the criticisms by people who seemingly really have a misguided handle on human nature and how people might behave and that revolution should have unfolded in a way that would have made it not a story but a fictional documentary that nobody would care about.


Well, _somebody_ needs to know what happened during the last 15 years. The characters don't seem to.

Teacher Aaron just happens to be asking the kids if they're curious about why the power went out _after 15 years?_

Dying Ben tells Charlie and all to find his lost brother Miles _after 15 years?_

Ben gives the amulet up _after 15 years?_

Monroe decides he needs to send a squad to bring in Ben hisself _after 15 years?_ after he imprisoned Ben's wife Rachel to ask _for 15 years?_ what Ben knows.

After _15 years_, would Rachel and Monroe still be "Are you going to ask me the same questions again?" and then torture her to get her to answer...._for 15 years?_

With Ben being killed Captain brings Ben's son Danny in to get to Monroe, so he can use Danny for leverage with Rachel for more of "Are you going to ask me the same questions again?"


----------



## squint (Jun 15, 2008)

netringer said:


> Dying Ben tells Charlie and all to find his lost brother Miles _after 15 years?_
> 
> Ben gives the amulet up _after 15 years?_


It was probably because he was dying and needed others to carry on his part in some grand plan. Had he survived, it would not have been necessary to find Miles or deliver the amulet to another keeper.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Flop said:


> I fast forwarded through a lot of this episode, so might have missed it. In the pilot, Danny's asthma seemed fairly severe and it was easy to trigger an attack, yet hiding in a dusty cellar that collapsed and dumped even more dust into the air did not trigger an attack. I do not know anyone with asthma, so don't know how realistic the portrayal is, but it seems to me that if the dust in the motor home of the pilot triggered an attack, being in that cellar sure would have as well.


He had an attack when he directly breathed in the dust. I am the same way. I can be fine in a dusty environment for a while, but with prolonged exposure I will gradually start to have issues. But if I breathe in a bunch of dust directly, like when he opened that cabinet, my lungs will start to close up right away.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

netringer said:


> Well, _somebody_ needs to know what happened during the last 15 years. The characters don't seem to.
> 
> Teacher Aaron just happens to be asking the kids if they're curious about why the power went out _after 15 years?_
> 
> ...


Rachel was not there for 15 years. I have no idea how long but when they showed her leaving, the kids looked older than when the blackout occurred.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Ereth said:


> I am, frankly, surprised at how much of the discussion is about whether the female characters are attractive or not.
> 
> Seriously. Are we really that shallow that we can't enjoy a story if we aren't attracted to the female leads, guys? How on earth did Rosanne stay on the air for so many years?


When they can't act, we move along to the next most obvious thing?


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Flop said:


> I fast forwarded through a lot of this episode, so might have missed it. In the pilot, Danny's asthma seemed fairly severe and it was easy to trigger an attack, yet hiding in a dusty cellar that collapsed and dumped even more dust into the air did not trigger an attack. I do not know anyone with asthma, so don't know how realistic the portrayal is, but it seems to me that if the dust in the motor home of the pilot triggered an attack, being in that cellar sure would have as well.


People have different triggers. For me it's cigarette smoke. For instance dust affects me but not nearly as severe as a friend of mine from High School.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

amcanzo said:


> Hard Rock Park/Freestyle Music Park, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA"
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freestyle_Music_Park
> It was last open in 2009


I live here. No way that park looks like that. They must have dressed it up a little if they used that one for the show.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

marksman said:


> It does bother me that so much of the nitpicking and people patting themselves on the back for being "logical" continually ignore the reality of security, food, water and shelter being the only concerns for almost everyone for a very long time. So when people mock the show for not taking of steam train museums or retrofitting ships with sails but always fail to explain how any of those things contribute to the basic and constantly pressing need for protection, shelter, food of water. I just feel like some people who continually have a go at the show seriously do not grasp the gravity and all encompassing need to survive first. People worried about these eccentric, in relative terms, plans and luxuries will perish. People will kill each other over resources or the threats of using resources. Someone trying to make sails will be killed for being crazy, wasting resources and being an easy target.
> 
> Finally there is a lot we obviously do not know. It is weird that some almost seem like the first 180 minutes of the show should have been a detailed documentary of the last fifteen years and not a story that picked up fifteen years after an earth shattering event. So for me the most faulty I logic i see comes from the criticisms by people who seemingly really have a misguided handle on human nature and how people might behave and that revolution should have unfolded in a way that would have made it not a story but a fictional documentary that nobody would care about.


You have a good point. From a historical point of view the main driving force behind travel was exploration and the unknown. So in these peoples view, why travel hours and hours to get to someplace you know everything about already. And from a practical point of view, very few necessities could be gotten by travelling over seas. Most anything recoverable would be a luxury and these people haven't gotten there yet. They need to nail basic needs first before looking for luxuries. They basically have to start the industrial revolution all over again.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> Rachel was not there for 15 years. I have no idea how long but when they showed her leaving, the kids looked older than when the blackout occurred.


You're probably right that Rachel hasn't been with Monroe for 15 years. But based on the ages of the kids when she left vs. their ages now, it's probably been at least ten years. So either way, the questions still remain: Why has Monroe had Rachel for ten years and only now is looking for Ben and Miles?


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> You're probably right that Rachel hasn't been with Monroe for 15 years. But based on the ages of the kids when she left vs. their ages now, it's probably been at least ten years. So either way, the questions still remain: Why has Monroe had Rachel for ten years and only now is looking for Ben and Miles?


Even mo' bettah! We now know that MONROE HAD MILES ON HIS TEAM when Rachel turned herself in!  Mighten Monroe have asked Miles all about what/why Ben knew when MILES WAS HIS #1 GUY?

Not only that, Monroe's militia obviously knew where Ben was, but it takes Captian 15 years to find him?

Do the writers of this show _watch_ the show?

BTW, note how the Revolution episodes go in alternating "characters just walking/talking crisis" and "really cool bigtime props & special effects" cycles. They need the budget to last for all 22(1) episodes. This was all talk. Next week we get a steam train! (BTW, a steam locomotive works just fine even if you don't pull the whistle.)

I'll be dropping the SP on this fiasco.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

netringer said:


> ...I'll be dropping the SP on this fiasco.


I'll be checking this week's episode thread....


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

btw...my feeling on why the militia is just now wanting Ben/the kid is because something has probably just now surfaced that they didn't know about before.


----------



## amcanzo (Nov 12, 2004)

Stormspace said:


> I live here. No way that park looks like that. They must have dressed it up a little if they used that one for the show.


In one of the scenes you can see the top of the Giant Guitar. IMDB says that was the location


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

amcanzo said:


> In one of the scenes you can see the top of the Giant Guitar. IMDB says that was the location


He's not saying it's not the location; he's saying it doesn't look like that. "They must have dressed it up."


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

pmyers said:


> I'll be checking this week's episode thread....


Don't get your hopes up. I have the that Soul Train episode recorded. They get one more chance.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

netringer said:


> Don't get your hopes up. I have the that Soul Train episode recorded. They get one more chance.


fair enough (I'm going to watch it tonight) but then you either have to get on or off the train!


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

pmyers said:


> fair enough (I'm going to watch it tonight) but then you either have to get on or off the train!


Deleted.

I'm so fed up I'll stay out of the Train thread.

I want those 4 hours of my life back.


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

I'm not deleting the SP, but I think I'll skip reading these Revolution threads.

That way whatever inconsistencies and logic flaws I don't notice will stay unnoticed.


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## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

Stormspace said:


> I live here. No way that park looks like that. They must have dressed it up a little if they used that one for the show.


When they film at the local park by our house, they always add extra playground equipment, trees, bushes, and benches. I would expect them to do the same with an amusement park, abandoned or not.


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> So either way, the questions still remain: Why has Monroe had Rachel for ten years and only now is looking for Ben and Miles?


They have been looking for a long time. They just found them now. The captain said in the pilot when he first arrived at the village that he'd been looking for him for "a long time."


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

verdugan said:


> They have been looking for a long time. They just found them now. The captain said in the pilot when he first arrived at the village that he'd been looking for him for "a long time."


Plus we don't know the reason why Rachel left in the first place, or what happened early on. One possibility was that she turned herself in under the guise of, "My family is dead, and I have nowhere else to go." Perhaps it was only recently (within the last 1-2 years) that Monroe found out otherwise. He might have been looking for Miles, and stumbled across information that Ben was still alive.


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