# TiVo Demos iPad Video Streaming!



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Dave Zatz has the scoop again!

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-01/tivo-demos-ipad-video-streaming/


----------



## NotVeryWitty (Oct 3, 2003)

For me, this is WAY BIGGER than multi-room streaming across Premieres (since I'm on Fios, and don't have CCI-byte issues).

Please, please, please Tivo, make this come true!!


----------



## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

This is awesome.

I thought it was concluded here that this was technologically infeasible due to the horsepower needed to do the transcoding?

This is one feature I will embrace. I'm slowly starting to like my Tivo again!


----------



## comma splice (Feb 4, 2010)

Just another reason I love my Slingbox! (Though I won't lie a native TiVo streaming app would be neat)


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Wow!!! Now this would be awesome! I've been having some trouble with my SlingBox (blown capacitors?) which I've been trying to use to stream TV into the bedroom when I'm falling asleep via iPad. (no TV in bedroom) If TiVo adds this ability then I can finally stop messing with the SlingBox and just stream directly from the TiVo.

Heck if this and the v20 update both turn out to be true I might actually consider replacing my S3 and Premiere units with an Elite. 

Dan


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Wow. The article's just been updated with a photo of a Tivo transcoder that does the heavy-lifting.


----------



## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

I hope this makes it to retail customers (along with the Preview)


----------



## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

It needs a dongle, which I'm sure TiVo will gladly sell to you:










Yet another device to attach? Forget it! I was hoping they were either pumping the raw MPEG2 streams to the iPad or they were transcoding them down to a lower bitrate by using the MPEG 2 encoders built into the TiVo.

They should have waited for the S5 and built in proper H.264 encoders to pipe the video out to remote devices (Both LAN and internet based).

Also... looks like coax is being fed into the device? IS this a standalone thing? I don't think it depends on the TiVo for anything and this is a completely separate device, with it's own tuner?


----------



## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

Philmatic said:


> It needs a dongle, which I'm sure TiVo will gladly sell to you:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why wait? And MPEG 2 is not nearly good enough. To get it to a bitrate good enough to stream, MPEG 2 would look like crap. They can always build this into the Series 5 (which who knows how long that is anyway). Feel free to wait until then, but I'm buying this as soon as it comes out


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Perhaps the idea is to have a combo TiVo extender (Preview) unit that also has H.264 transcoding capabilities for output to portable gadgets. I'm sure TiVo will find a way to charge monthly for it.


----------



## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Philmatic said:


> Yet another device to attach? Forget it!


I don't mind another device to attach, so long as it's properly integrated into the iPad app and the Tivo. I do want a solution that works with the Tivo app, so things like pause and play work without excessive lag. If it's something that merely encodes existing CATV or component video, then it's no better than a slingbox or equivalent, and I'd stick with what I already have.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

What that thing needs is an HDMI output and a little remote too.


----------



## NotVeryWitty (Oct 3, 2003)

JosephB said:


> Why wait? And MPEG 2 is not nearly good enough. To get it to a bitrate good enough to stream, MPEG 2 would look like crap. They can always build this into the Series 5 (which who knows how long that is anyway). Feel free to wait until then, but I'm buying this as soon as it comes out


Same here.

Broadcom has been touting their new chip with built-in video transcoding at CES, but this external box makes it feasible for Tivo to get the functionality with existing Premieres, which do not have enough horsepower to do it in software.


----------



## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Wow. I think I crapped my pants.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

TiVo reinforced to me MANY times this is "conceptual" and a "prototype" - so who knows what the final product, if there is any, would look like. Or who it'd be available to. But, yeah, I feel real fortunate to have the scoop since I'm not actually in Vegas this year for CES! I assume more details will trickle out as more folks are briefed.


----------



## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Dave- I'm wondering. It seems that TiVo is actively changing their culture of communications with both the media and users. Do you have the same thoughts in your dealings with them? I'm thinking that perhaps their new communications hire last year has something to do with it, and I'm hoping its a trend.

Sorry all for the off-topic question.


----------



## andyf (Feb 23, 2000)

I am totally confused about the purple edged box.

What is it?
What does it do?
Do you need it to stream shows to the iPad?
Does it connect to your TiVo box or is it standalone?


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

jrtroo said:


> Dave- I'm wondering. It seems that TiVo is actively changing their culture of communications with both the media and users. Do you have the same thoughts in your dealings with them? I'm thinking that perhaps their new communications hire last year has something to do with it, and I'm hoping its a trend.


I get the sense Magret participates because it's meaningful to her not because folks in some other department (Marketing/Communications) have instructed her to reach out. I appreciate it, but I don't know that it represents a broader shift. Having said that, TiVo allowing folks to talk publicly about the NEXT software update and to cover this prototype is unusual for them. Whereas in years past, I've received all sorts of info at CES. But large chunks of it weren't to be discussed until a later date. So perhaps their new communications director (#), who I've yet to meet, has something to do with this.



andyf said:


> I am totally confused about the purple edged box.
> 
> What is it?
> What does it do?
> ...


Well, it's just a prototype. And maybe its not purple, maybe it's Virgin Media red. The box transcodes and streams the video. Not sure if it's stand alone or tethered, but I assumed tethered. Who knows what the final solution, if there is one, will look like or if functionality is integrated into some future DVR.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

crxssi has been saying for quite sometime that there is no way possible for the TiVo alone to stream to the iPad... (I have been saying it would be possible to use a TiVo desktop solution to provide the transcoding horsepower)

But this extra device is an interesting solution...

A Sling Box solo is ~$175 dollars, plus $30 for an iPad app. What would you pay for this add on device?

$100? $150? Interesting thought....


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

bradleys said:


> crxssi has been saying for quite sometime that there is no way possible for the TiVo alone to stream to the iPad... (I have been saying it would be possible to use a TiVo desktop solution to provide the transcoding horsepower)


Technically, I think it'd be possible. Maybe not elegant or efficient, but doable with the current hardware. But TiVo would not want to do anything to even remotely disrupt the core DVR experience and there'd be some risk of crushing the box. But let's say the skipped the transcode and went MPEG2 only, as with MRS or MRV, they'd probably only be able to successfully stream that to a custom iPad decoder *in SD* as El Gato does with their HDHomeRun prime app. So doable, but maybe not desirable. Also, who knows who this box or a future integrated solution would be offered to. Maybe it's only for MSO partners like RCN. And would they permit beyond-the-home streaming? We shall see... 



bradleys said:


> A Sling Box solo is ~$175 dollars, plus $30 for an iPad app. What would you pay for this add on device?
> 
> $100? $150? Interesting thought....


DirecTV launched the Nomad at $150, not sure what it is now. Also not sure what Comcast will charge for Motorola Televation/AnyPlay.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Well that sucks. I thought they figured out a way to decode MPEG-2 smoothly on the iPad and were just using their new streaming ability to send the stream over. If it requires a whole new box then it may not be much better then the SlingBox.

Dan


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> Well that sucks. I thought they figured out a way to decode MPEG-2 smoothly on the iPad and were just using their new streaming ability to send the stream over. If it requires a whole new box then it may not be much better then the SlingBox.


El Gato tells me they have 720 MPEG2 working in their labs from the HDHomeRun Prime on an iPad 2. So it could be possible as hardware improves and dependent on efficient decoder software. But the low hanging fruit might be a less elegant intermediary box like this.


----------



## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> Well that sucks. I thought they figured out a way to decode MPEG-2 smoothly on the iPad and were just using their new streaming ability to send the stream over. If it requires a whole new box then it may not be much better then the SlingBox.
> 
> Dan


Well, some things to consider: Slingbox requires IR blasters. Having had TiVo since the very beginning, I can tell you that sucks sometimes. Also, there's rumors that Sling may be moving towards a monthly fee. Just rumors, but they're floating around. Also, with the streaming integrated into the app, all you have to do is pick the show out of the list and bam there it is. No navigating menus over the stream. you get to use the iPad UI, speedy and responsive, instead of the built in delay in the remote DVR UI.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

JosephB said:


> Well, some things to consider: Slingbox requires IR blasters. Having had TiVo since the very beginning, I can tell you that sucks sometimes. Also, there's rumors that Sling may be moving towards a monthly fee. Just rumors, but they're floating around. Also, with the streaming integrated into the app, all you have to do is pick the show out of the list and bam there it is. No navigating menus over the stream. you get to use the iPad UI, speedy and responsive, instead of the built in delay in the remote DVR UI.


With Slingbox, you have no gatekeepers. But with a TiVo or MSO solution, they may not let you stream outside the house. Agree on the points about IR blaster inefficiently and lag.


----------



## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

davezatz said:


> With Slingbox, you have no gatekeepers. But with a TiVo or MSO solution, they may not let you stream outside the house. Agree on the points about IR blaster inefficiently and lag.


How easy is it to enforce that? I mean, I can play tricks with tunneling, VPNs, etc. I suppose they could measure the latency and reasonably conclude my iPad was not local.



JosephB said:


> Slingbox requires IR blasters.


Can't you use the iPad remote over IP for any remote control operations? Why (when using a slingbox) do you need to use the IR blaster?


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

smbaker said:


> How easy is it to enforce that? I mean, I can play tricks with tunneling, VPNs, etc. I suppose they could measure the latency and reasonably conclude my iPad was not local.


If you're geeky, sure it can be bypassed. The average Joe won't know and won't bother. And then there's some geeks like me who find even the Slingbox too much trouble most days and prefer to stream things like CNN or ESPN online via deals with my provider (FiOS) or watch Hulu Plus.



> Can't you use the iPad remote over IP for any remote control operations? Why (when using a slingbox) do you need to use the IR blaster?


Yep, entirely possible. You could if you're IN your home and you want to toggle between apps and continually rebuffer that stream. You could also build it into the Slingbox experience... but someone has to decide it's worth the investment to program. EchoStar/DISH and TiVo didn't get along until recently and there may not be a reasonable ROI. At different points in time, both Megazone and I worked for Sling and independently proposed native TiVo IP control. But there were bigger fish to fry.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

There would be no menu lag, but there would still likely be a trick play lag. If the video is being recoded on the fly there is no way they could recode and stream fast enough to completely eliminate the trick play lag. In fact I'd be surprised if there wasn't a minor lag on the Premiere to Premier streaming they have now. Although that could be minute enough that no one really notices.

Dan


----------



## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

davezatz said:


> But with a TiVo or MSO solution, they may not let you stream outside the house.


Or even _in_ the house. Brighthouse advertises their iPad app for watching TV but it won't work on my jailbroken iPad. 

That being said, being able to stream from my TiVos to the iPad would be great ... even if it was just on my local home network.


----------



## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

davezatz said:


> With Slingbox, you have no gatekeepers. But with a TiVo or MSO solution, they may not let you stream outside the house. Agree on the points about IR blaster inefficiently and lag.


Sling no longer develops a stand alone Sling app for the desktop. You have to use their apps that you pay $30 for, and now on your PC you have to use the web app. The rumors are that they're going to charge for the web app. I think they'd have a class action suit on their hands if they did it for current models, but what's to stop them from doing it on future models? What's to say Echostar doesn't just shutter stand alone Sling products and go 100% with bundling it? It's just a rumor, anyway, but it's possible.



smbaker said:


> Can't you use the iPad remote over IP for any remote control operations? Why (when using a slingbox) do you need to use the IR blaster?


I haven't played with the iPad app when I'm not at home, but on the iPhone app doesn't it tell you that the remote only works when you're on the same local network? I'm pretty sure that isn't enabled to work remotely on the current TiVo iOS apps.



Dan203 said:


> There would be no menu lag, but there would still likely be a trick play lag. If the video is being recoded on the fly there is no way they could recode and stream fast enough to completely eliminate the trick play lag. In fact I'd be surprised if there wasn't a minor lag on the Premiere to Premier streaming they have now. Although that could be minute enough that no one really notices.
> 
> Dan


Yeah, well you're always going to have lag, but, if you were doing it natively you wouldn't really do "true" trick play, it'd be as if the iPad itself was playing, not just a live stream. You'd have the full controls natively, with a time slider, etc. Plus, if it buffered enough of the stream, you could probably trick play a minute or so without lag.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

JosephB said:


> Sling no longer develops a stand alone Sling app for the desktop. You have to use their apps that you pay $30 for, and now on your PC you have to use the web app. The rumors are that they're going to charge for the web app. I think they'd have a class action suit on their hands if they did it for current models, but what's to stop them from doing it on future models? What's to say Echostar doesn't just shutter stand alone Sling products and go 100% with bundling it? It's just a rumor, anyway, but it's possible.


Well, some of those subscription rumors probably came from me after my 2011 CES discussions with Sling... *as it related to connected devices* like Google TV and Boxee. I can't imagine existing Slingboxes would ever wind up with a fee for web access as it's part of the core experience given the EOL-ed desktop software.

I am surprised Ergen has kept retail Sling solutions alive this long after the acquisition given what I assume are tepid sales due to the changing landscape (TV Anywhere), general complexity, and no hardware refresh since I was part of the team - we're talking 2008. Yikes. If they were to shutter retail offerings at some point, I'd think they'd keep the server/network infrastructure going for some period of time as we've seen from others like ReplayTV.


----------



## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

Philmatic said:


>


Anybody else think that thing looks remarkably like a case-modded Mac mini?


----------



## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Drewster said:


> Anybody else think that thing looks remarkably like a case-modded Mac mini?


It looks more like the Roku that I have. I think it's a second generation.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Did they demonstrate anything for Android? No Apple products here.


----------



## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

aaronwt said:


> Did they demonstrate anything for Android? No Apple products here.


It's just a prototype. I wouldn't get bogged down into platform support type stuff quite yet.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I would love to see this device offer both MRS and MRV functionality to the mobile device. Stream when you are in your local network or choose to move a recording to your device for viewing later!

I would purchase one today!


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

davezatz said:


> I assume more details will trickle out as more folks are briefed.


Engadget got us additional details with better photos, including the TiVo UI:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/11/updated-tivo-netflix-youtube-interfaces-and-ipad-streaming-hand/


----------



## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

OK, I take back everything bad I said about the TiVo transcoder box, streaming Live TV certainly changes things as well as not needing anything but power and ethernet. I'm sold, just don't charge a monthly fee for it!


----------



## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

Also, it's important to note that they've effectively ported the TiVo software to mobile devices. All your mobile devices are now essentially TiVo Previews.

I'm sure Android will be next to allow streaming, but can we please get an desktop application? That would be fantastic!


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

YES!

This is exactly what I wanted... You can watch on your device locally, or download for viewing later!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gimmmeee gimmeee gimmmeeee....

http://www.engadget.com/photos/tivo-premiere-app-streaming-hands-on/#4741442


----------



## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

I'm still processing this... this is crazy. What the hell is happening over in Alviso? Did someone give the development and product direction teams Red Bull?


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

They finished two years of development on the Virgin TiVo!!! 

I really bet that is what slowed all this down a little bit - but we are seeing an real infusion of innovation and development for the retail business now!


----------



## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

davezatz said:


> Engadget got us additional details with better photos, including the TiVo UI:


Odd, I count 4 cables going into the streaming box on the original picture, and only 2 ports in the new pictures. I don't even see USB on the new picture, just ethernet and power.


----------



## comma splice (Feb 4, 2010)

The downloading shows to your iPad is the best part. Offline viewing is the one thing Slingbox can't do. Think airplanes, car rides, or other places without Wi-Fi.

I know it's possible to do this now, but having a one-tap solution would be so much easier.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

comma said:


> The downloading shows to your iPad is the best part. Offline viewing is the one thing Slingbox can't do. Think airplanes, car rides, or other places without Wi-Fi.
> 
> I know it's possible to do this now, but having a one-tap solution would be so much easier.


Depends how long it takes to transfer and if you plan well enough in advance... I've been burned by a few similar solutions due to sluggish transfers and poor planning. Also, we don't know what the pq/resolution will be or what will generally be permissible (which channels, which resolutions, which TiVos, how much, etc). But very promising, indeed.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

smbaker said:


> Odd, I count 4 cables going into the streaming box on the original picture, and only 2 ports in the new pictures. I don't even see USB on the new picture, just ethernet and power.


Either there's a second box or it's an optical illusion, as Megazone suggested after emailing TiVo questions. I've reached out to TiVo for more info and/or another pic. I'm sure they're crushed at the show and don't know when I'll hear back. I'd say Engadget's pics are probably more representative.


----------



## Bgraham34 (Aug 15, 2010)

So Tivo is talking about using a separate piece of hardware for streaming. COuldn't they just a pc or mac to do the same thing.


----------



## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

Does that "play on TV" button suggest Airplay?


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

sbiller said:


> Does that "play on TV" button suggest Airplay?


No that is current functionality on the iPad remote application. It simply sends a command to the tivo to play the selected show.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

bradleys said:


> No that is current functionality on the iPad remote application. It simply sends a command to the tivo to play the selected show.


Hm, yeah now I'm wondering. It would kinda be crazy to bounce content from TiVo to Transcoder to iPad to Apple TV. How about building MRS into a Roku app instead?


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

davezatz said:


> Depends how long it takes to transfer and if you plan well enough in advance... I've been burned by a few similar solutions due to sluggish transfers and poor planning. Also, we don't know what the pq/resolution will be or what will generally be permissible (which channels, which resolutions, which TiVos, how much, etc). But very promising, indeed.


My hope is that use of the additional box will provide the transcoding horsepower to speed up the transfer.



davezatz said:


> Yeah, another one of the pics showed the airplay buttons. And, again, we'll see what's ultimately delivered... but promising!


I do not see any airplay buttons in any of the photos... I see the normal ios app "Play on TV" options. Maybe I am just missing something - not that this app couldn't support airplay, but that is not what is the "Play on TV" is representing.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

bradleys said:


> I do not see any airplay buttons in any of the photos... I see the normal ios app "Play on TV" options. Maybe I am just missing something - not that this app couldn't support airplay, but that is not what is the "Play on TV" is representing.


You're right, I didn't see the little AirPlay icons. I just saw the grey buttons and got excited.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Bgraham34 said:


> So Tivo is talking about using a separate piece of hardware for streaming. COuldn't they just a pc or mac to do the same thing.


I would much rather use this solution. I do not have to have my computer on all the time to support a computer based bonjour solution and I do not have to rely on the limited transcoding power of my TiVo.

This is a perfect solution - Could the box be smaller? Sure, I suppose - but I would barely give it a second thought.

Of course, all of my equipment is in a cabinet - so I don't have to look at it.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

smbaker said:


> I don't even see USB on the new picture, just ethernet and power.


Ethernet is all that's really needed. The transcoder box could talk to the TiVo just like the Preview. Request a stream, feed it through the transcoder, and pass that along to the iPad. It's basically just a proxy with a H.264 encoder chip built in. No need for USB or coax.

Dan


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

It sounds like this is a lot closer to reality then maybe the "prototype" moniker is suggesting. (wishfull thinking?) I would be happy to beta test a unit for them!



> The TiVo Premiere for iPad and iPhone apps were able to stream recordings, watch Live TV or download recordings to be watched later. The experienced was very responsive and, unlike many other tech demos, there weren't any glitches or errors. Right now the little box doesn't even have a name, nevertheless a release date or price, but we did find it interesting to learn that the iOS devices stream the content directly from the little guy.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Looking at the icon in the upper right hand corner - I think we can make the assumption that this will work just as well for a live tv program as it will for recorded content. It would be really cool if I could watch tuner 2 while my wife watches tuner 1! I suspect I am pushing the wish list a little far with that request.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

bradleys said:


> Looking at the icon in the upper right hand corner - I think we can make the assumption that this will work just as well for a live tv program as it will for recorded content. It would be really cool if I could watch tuner 2 while my wife watches tuner 1![/IMG]


Ben/Engadget specifically said live...



> The TiVo Premiere for iPad and iPhone apps were able to stream recordings, watch Live TV or download recordings to be watched later.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

This looks much more polished then I expected. I like how they included the 30 second skip on the screen instead of FF. Using my SlingBox I've discovered that FF is almost impossible to use given the lag, but 30 second skip works pretty well.

Dan


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Wow do most of you guys actually get good enough upload speeds to stream HD video from you house? 

With Frontier DSL about all I could stream is plain text messages. I think upload is something like 0.37 Mbps compared to my down load speed of about 5.8 Mbps when I test with Speedtest.net


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I get 2Mbps up via my cable modem. Between 16-20Mbps down.

Dan


----------



## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

atmuscarella said:


> Wow do most of you guys actually get good enough upload speeds to stream HD video from you house?
> 
> With Frontier DSL about all I could stream is plain text messages. I think upload is something like 0.37 Mbps compared to my down load speed of about 5.8 Mbps when I test with Speedtest.net


you're assuming tivo will let you stream over the internet. im going have to say, i doubt they will.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Aero 1 said:


> you're assuming tivo will let you stream over the internet. im going have to say, i doubt they will.


I agree... I supect stream will be limited to local use and save to iPad for travel. Just considering the limitations of the ipad app remotely, that only makes sense


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Aero 1 said:


> you're assuming tivo will let you stream over the internet. im going have to say, i doubt they will.


Yeah, I doubt that too. Then again, I doubted they'd ever do any placeshifting...



bradleys said:


> I supect stream will be limited to local use and save to iPad for travel.


Yep, and they'll probably revitalize their "TiVoToGo" branding and functionality.


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Aero 1 said:


> you're assuming tivo will let you stream over the internet. im going have to say, i doubt they will.


Isn't that what this whole thread is about? I guess streaming locally would be of some interest but I like watching TV on a TV when home.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

atmuscarella said:


> Isn't that what this whole thread is about? I guess streaming locally would be of some interest but I like watching TV on a TV when home.


I wouldn't count on it and don't imagine this would be a full fledged Slingbox-esque solution... most of the TV Anywhere apps/functions like Time Warner or Cablevision permit in-home streaming. Watching live or recorded TV in my sunroom via iPad would be hot. But how much is it worth? Offloading, without requiring a computer, could also be useful if it's efficient and the resolution isn't so low. Then again downloading is probably more offensive to the content providers than streaming. We shall see.


----------



## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

atmuscarella said:


> Isn't that what this whole thread is about? I guess streaming locally would be of some interest but I like watching TV on a TV when home.


no, its local streaming. the ipad app cant locate your tivos inside your network when you are outside, thats why it makes log into your tivo.com account for very basic usage.

this would be great for me. watch tv on my ipad while im floating in my pool.


----------



## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

Aero 1 said:


> no, its local streaming. the ipad app cant locate your tivos inside your network when you are outside, thats why it makes log into your tivo.com account for very basic usage.
> 
> this would be great for me. watch tv on my ipad while im floating in my pool.


Currently that is the case. There's nothing saying that TiVo couldn't setup a Slingbox-style locator service so that all you need to do when you're away from home is login to your TiVo.com account and their servers do the matchmaking.

Streaming away from home is dead simple from a technological perspective. The holdup, if there is one, will be copyright holders.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

davezatz said:


> Yep, and they'll probably revitalize their "TiVoToGo" branding and functionality.


Unfortunately TiVoToGo is becoming more and more crippled by MSOs over use of the Copy Once bit. In a lot of places everything is flagged Copy Once except the local channels. (due to legal restraints) This is the main reason TiVo even started on the streaming ability in the first place, because streaming is exempt from the Copy Once flag. Although streaming outside the home might provide an exception, so they might not even be allowed to stream ala SlingBox even if they want to.

Dan


----------



## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

Short Video of the streaming from TechOfTheHub.com.

http://www.techofthehub.com/2012/01/tivos-tablet-and-smartphone-streaming-demo-video.html


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> Unfortunately TiVoToGo is becoming more and more crippled by MSOs over use of the Copy Once bit. In a lot of places everything is flagged Copy Once except the local channels. (due to legal restraints) This is the main reason TiVo even started on the streaming ability in the first place, because streaming is exempt from the Copy Once flag. Although streaming outside the home might provide an exception, so they might not even be allowed to stream ala SlingBox even if they want to.
> 
> Dan


From the RCN mention, it sounds like anything/everything in the home will be permissible. Which suggests TiVo has built the CableLabs protections into the stream like any other set-top client (Preview). They also say anything not flagged copy once can be downloaded, so no better or worse than the current TiVoToGo in that respect. But offloading the duties from a computer is a big win (unless you've automated batch transfers and such).

http://www.broadbandreports.com/for...-TiVo-Transcoding-Box.-Stream-to-Phone-IPAD-e


----------



## danjw1 (Sep 13, 2005)

With rumors of an iPad 3 coming soonish, this maybe moot, if it can decode 1080i MPEG2. Anyway, this is just an idea they are playing with, not something they are about the productize. Though, the box looks more like a production sample then a "prototype".


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

sbiller said:


> Short Video of the streaming from TechOfTheHub.com.
> 
> http://www.techofthehub.com/2012/01/tivos-tablet-and-smartphone-streaming-demo-video.html


That's interesting. So it would appear that you can only watch a program on one device or the other, not both at the same time. So you can't mirror the TiVo to the iPad. Not sure if that matters for most usage scenarios, but it's one disadvantage when compared to a SlingBox.

Dan


----------



## danjw1 (Sep 13, 2005)

davezatz said:


> I wouldn't count on it and don't imagine this would be a full fledged Slingbox-esque solution... most of the TV Anywhere apps/functions like Time Warner or Cablevision permit in-home streaming. Watching live or recorded TV in my sunroom via iPad would be hot. But how much is it worth? Offloading, without requiring a computer, could also be useful if it's efficient and the resolution isn't so low. Then again downloading is probably more offensive to the content providers than streaming. We shall see.


"In home", as far as that is concerned is what they see as the "LAN". But with a VPN, you can be on the LAN without being in the home. So how they manage to enforce this, I don't know.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

danjw1 said:


> "In home", as far as that is concerned is what they see as the "LAN". But with a VPN, you can be on the LAN without being in the home. So how they manage to enforce this, I don't know.


Oh, I'm sure you could build some sort of tunnel to bypass it but they ("industry") probably count on most folks not knowing or not caring enough to get it done. Not sure what the latency would do the experience. Hopefully we'll find out one day...


----------



## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

danjw1 said:


> "In home", as far as that is concerned is what they see as the "LAN". But with a VPN, you can be on the LAN without being in the home. So how they manage to enforce this, I don't know.


They could measure the average latency. I can't violate the speed of light... at least not yet. 

Although maybe WAN latency is more due to queuing delays, not the speed of light. I really haven't thought about it. Anyhow, it's 0.8 ms from my computer to most anything on my lan, or 46ms across my WAN to my favorite server. Easy enough to tell the difference.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> That's interesting. So it would appear that you can only watch a program on one device or the other, not both at the same time. So you can't mirror the TiVo to the iPad. Not sure if that matters for most usage scenarios, but it's one disadvantage when compared to a SlingBox.
> 
> Dan


I am not excited about that... It works similar to airplay in that form - I understand it, but frankly I wish they wouldn't go in that way....

If you have more than one TiVo this behavior shouldn't be a huge drawback. It would be better if you could stream from a separate tuner! :up:

edit: hmmm.... I wonder if screen sinc would be an issue having both the TV and iPad displaying at the same time...


----------



## bdraw (Aug 1, 2004)

It would be very easy for them to measure the latency and not allow it to connect if it was over 10ms.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> That's interesting. So it would appear that you can only watch a program on one device or the other, not both at the same time. So you can't mirror the TiVo to the iPad. Not sure if that matters for most usage scenarios, but it's one disadvantage when compared to a SlingBox.
> 
> Dan


No, it's just the way he demo'd it. You can certainly do both at the same time. It just offers a feature to play a recording from the currently played point on the iPad. You could watch the same program on the Tivo and the iPad but it wouldn't be sync'd unless it was live tv.


----------



## danjw1 (Sep 13, 2005)

smbaker said:


> They could measure the average latency. I can't violate the speed of light... at least not yet.
> 
> Although maybe WAN latency is more due to queuing delays, not the speed of light. I really haven't thought about it. Anyhow, it's 0.8 ms from my computer to most anything on my lan, or 46ms across my WAN to my favorite server. Easy enough to tell the difference.


Trying that sort of thing can lead to lots of calls to customer service. I doubt they want that.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

With just being a CAT5 connection - I see no reason why you couldn't just set this right next to you router and never see it again.

It doesn't look like it connects directly to th TiVo.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

bdraw said:


> It would be very easy for them to measure the latency and not allow it to connect if it was over 10ms.


Yeah, they'll get to that right after they complete the HDUI. C'mon, Ben!


----------



## bdraw (Aug 1, 2004)

davezatz said:


> Yeah, they'll get to that right after they complete the HDUI. C'mon, Ben!


It is easier than you might think. Most network libraries include timeouts in the code, set the layer 4 timeout too low and it will never successfully work. I've seen developers do this accidentally when testing over a lan for a process that needed to run over a wan. They call the network guy and complain because the network is slow!


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

bdraw said:


> Most network libraries include timeouts in the code, set the layer 4 timeout too low and it will never successfully work. I've seen developers do this accidentally when testing over a lan for a process that needed to run over a wan.


Like danjw1 says, it's probably too risky from a support perspective. I assume they'll count on folks not being knowledgeable or interested enough. Then again, you and I will document the solution... and possibly spoil the fun for everyone.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

I wonder if TiVo is going to allow a web based version of this? Limiting this to the iPad seems strange. Why can't I use my laptop? A web based version could also support things like Google TV and Boxee giving us the extender without them having to release the Preview.


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 1, 2007)

rainwater said:


> I wonder if TiVo is going to allow a web based version of this? Limiting this to the iPad seems strange. Why can't I use my laptop? A web based version could also support things like Google TV and Boxee giving us the extender without them having to release the Preview.


That would make a lot of sense.
TiVo have already tried to make a TiVo box be the central unit in your home entertainment experience, integrating cable/broadcast TV, recorded shows, your media servers, internet streaming from NetFlix/YouTube/whatever, etc., etc. But that's all mostly tied to a single output device - the TV attached to the TiVo (MRV & TTG notwithstanding). Adding a connected distribution box that could talk to other display devices would be outstanding - I'd buy one (and a Preview Elite) in a heartbeat.


----------



## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

funny how the "the one box" will need another box in order for it to become "the one box"


----------



## danjw1 (Sep 13, 2005)

davezatz said:


> Like danjw1 says, it's probably too risky from a support perspective. I assume they'll count on folks not being knowledgeable or interested enough. Then again, you and I will document the solution... and possibly spoil the fun for everyone.


I doubt they would do anything for discovery beyond Bonjour or Tivo Beacon. They have something in place, why mess with it?


----------



## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

rainwater said:


> I wonder if TiVo is going to allow a web based version of this? Limiting this to the iPad seems strange. Why can't I use my laptop? A web based version could also support things like Google TV and Boxee giving us the extender without them having to release the Preview.


Well, the problem with that is they'd have to write a new video client, because it would have to respect their DRM. I don't think it'll be limited to iOS devices (or even phones and tablets in general) but I'd expect any PC support to be based on an app and not web based.


----------



## gtrogue (Jun 18, 2001)

This thing has been baking for a while. I remember answering a survey question about this add-on box early last year. However, the survey was about a device attached to the Tivo. I assumed it would be some type of dongle not a network proxy device like this one.


----------



## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

gtrogue said:


> This thing has been baking for a while. I remember answering a survey question about this add-on box early last year. However, the survey was about a device attached to the Tivo. I assumed it would be some type of dongle not a network proxy device like this one.


They may have thought the same thing at the time, but over the course of time it changed. This actually makes the most sense, in that to support this you really don't have to make any changes to the software running on the TiVo itself. This box probably just looks like another TiVo on the network to your DVR and uses the existing streaming protocols to get the shows off your box.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I was thinking the same thing. I bet it looks like a preview to the TiVo...


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

JosephB said:


> They may have thought the same thing at the time, but over the course of time it changed. This actually makes the most sense, in that to support this you really don't have to make any changes to the software running on the TiVo itself. This box probably just looks like another TiVo on the network to your DVR and uses the existing streaming protocols to get the shows off your box.


Also you only need one of these boxes, instead of one per TiVo box.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

gtrogue said:


> This thing has been baking for a while. I remember answering a survey question about this add-on box early last year.


I heard from a former employee who says this has been kicking around their labs for quite literally years. Hopefully the fact that they're showing it off implies they'll finally bring something like it to market.


----------



## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

morac said:


> Also you only need one of these boxes, instead of one per TiVo box.


Good point, didn't think about that.


----------

