# The Official Renewed/Canceled/Development/Upfronts Thread for 2011-12 TV Season



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

This is only for the broadcast networks and only for the new season starting Fall 2011. I'll be back to edit this post as more news breaks, but so far, here's what's happened:

*FOX*
Canceled: The Chicago Code, Traffic Light, Breaking In, Lie To Me, Human Target, Lone Star, Running Wilde, The Good Guys

Renewed for Fall: House, Raising Hope, Glee, Bones, Fringe, American Dad, Family Guy, The Simpsons, The Cleveland Show.

Renewed, but not coming back until Midseason or unspecified: American Idol, Bob's Burgers

New Shows for 2011-12: 
Fall: The X Factor, Terra Nova, The New Girl, Allen Gregory, I Hate My Teenage Daughter 
Midseason or Unscheduled: The Finder, Alcatraz, Napoleon Dynamite, Touch

*NBC*
Canceled: Law & Order: LA, The Event, The Cape, Perfect Couples, Chase, Outlaw, Undercovers, The Paul Reiser Show, Outsourced, America's Next Great Restaurant, School Pride

Renewed: Chuck (13 episode final season), Harry's Law, Parenthood, Law & Order: SVU, Community, The Office, Parks & Recreation, The Biggest Loser, The Sing-Off

Renewed, but not coming back until Midseason or unspecified: 30 Rock, Who Do You Think You Are?, The Voice

New Shows for 2011-12:
Fall: Grimm, The Playboy Club, Prime Suspect, Up All Night, Free Agents, Whitney 
Midseason or Unscheduled: Awake, Smash, Fashion Star, Are You There Vodka? It's Me, Chelsea, Bent, BFF, The Firm, Betty White's Off Their Rocker

*ABC*
Canceled: V, Brothers and Sisters, Better With You, Mr. Sunshine, Off the Map, Detroit 1-8-7, No Ordinary Family, My Generation, The Whole Truth, Skating with the Stars, Supernanny

Renewed for Fall: Desperate Housewives, Modern Family, Grey's Anatomy, Private Practice, The Middle, Castle, Dancing with the Stars, Happy Endings, Body of Proof, Shark Tank, Extreme Makeover: Home Edition, America's Funniest Videos

Renewed, but not coming back until Midseason or unspecified:Cougar Town, The Bachelor/ette, Secret Millionaire

New Shows for 2011-12:
Fall: Last Man Standing, Man Up, Once Upon A Time, Charlie's Angels, Revenge, Pan Am, Suburgatory
Midseason or Unscheduled: Missing, Apartment 23, Good Christian Belles, Scandal, The River, Work It

*CBS*
Canceled: Chaos, Medium, Live to Dance, The Defenders, Mad Love, $#!% My Dad Says, Criminal Minds: Suspect Behavior

Renewed for Fall: How I Met Your Mother, The Big Bang Theory, Two and a Half Men, NCIS, The Amazing Race, Survivor, Blue Bloods, Mike & Molly, Hawaii 5-0, CSI: NY, Rules of Engagement, NCIS: Los Angeles, The Good Wife, Criminal Minds, CSI, CSI: Miami, The Mentalist, Blue Bloods, 60 Minutes

Renewed, but not coming back until Midseason or unspecified: Undercover Boss

New Shows for 2011-12: 
Fall: Person of Interest, Two Broke Girls, Unforgettable, How to be a Gentleman, A Gifted Man
Midseason or Unscheduled: The 2-2, several unnamed comedies

*CW*
Canceled: Life Unexpected, Hellcats

Renewed for Fall: 90210, Gossip Girl, Supernatural, The Vampire Diaries, America's Next Top Model, Nikita

Renewed, but not coming back until Midseason or unspecified: One Tree Hill

New Shows for 2011-12: 
Fall: Ringer, Hart of Dixie, Secret Circle, H8R
Midseason or Unscheduled: Remodeled, The Frame


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Wait. Officially Better With You was canceled?? Nooooo Poor Josh Cooke. He and Christian Slater just cannot make this work! That's 3 for both now.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> Wait. Officially Better With You was canceled?? Nooooo Poor Josh Cooke. He and Christian Slater just cannot make this work! That's 3 for both now.


Yes, Better With You was just announced about an hour ago. The news has been coming in fast and furious today.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Medium has been cancelled? 

BIH Fox!!!


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Wow, ONLY canceled show I have even watched is Mr. Sunshine. Thought it was getting better, but oh well.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

MikeMar said:


> Wow, ONLY canceled show I have even watched is Mr. Sunshine. Thought it was getting better, but oh well.


There are still probably a few cancellations to be announced for CBS (The Defenders, $#!t my Dad Says?) and CW (Hellcats), but most of the bloodletting has been finalized.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> There are still probably a few cancellations to be announced for CBS (The Defenders, $#!t my Dad Says?) and CW (Hellcats), but most of the bloodletting has been finalized.


None of those either


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

I still can't decide if I should be surprised by all this news or not. With upfronts next week, on one hand, I would think they'd wait until then to make the big announcements. OTOH, I get that room has to be cleared on the schedule and they would rather the NEW shows be the big announcements rather than what's gone.

EDIT: After reading what I just typed, I've decided. I'm not surprised. It's really not a good thing to go on stage and announce "We here at NBC would like to announce the failure of 11 shows from this season."


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

DevdogAZ said:


> *ABC*
> New Shows for 2011-12: Missing, Apartment 23, Last Man Standing, Man Up, Good Christian Belles, Charlie's Angels, Once Upon A Time, Pan Am, Revenge, Scandal, The River, Work It, Suburgatory


I see ABC caved and renamed "Don't Trust the ***** in Apt 23" and "Good Christian *****es".


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

WhiskeyTango said:


> I still can't decide if I should be surprised by all this news or not. With upfronts next week, on one hand, I would think they'd wait until then to make the big announcements. OTOH, I get that room has to be cleared on the schedule and they would rather the NEW shows be the big announcements rather than what's gone.
> 
> EDIT: After reading what I just typed, I've decided. I'm not surprised. It's really not a good thing to go on stage and announce "We here at NBC would like to announce the failure of 11 shows from this season."


The cancellation news is definitely not a surprise for this week. However, I'm a little surprised that so many of the new pickups have been announced. I'd think the networks would want to save those in their quiver for next week. But from what I understand, it becomes pretty hard to keep the news under wraps when contracts are signed and actors/creators are immediately booked to fly to NYC to appear at the upfont presentation. With Facebook and Twitter, that kind of news just can't stay secret very long.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

WhiskeyTango said:


> I see ABC caved and renamed "Don't Trust the ***** in Apt 23" and "Good Christian *****es".


Yes, and it's probably a good idea. The shows would get all kinds of publicity for their titles, but very little for their actual content. Now they can try to make a name for themselves based on whether they're good or not rather than because they have a controversial title.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> There are still probably a few cancellations to be announced for CBS (The Defenders, $#!t my Dad Says?) and CW (Hellcats), but most of the bloodletting has been finalized.


Cancel Hellcats?? NO!!!!


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## Michael S (Jan 12, 2004)

So is Harrys Law the only freshmen scripted series on NBC to be renewed?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Michael S said:


> So is Harrys Law the only freshmen scripted series on NBC to be renewed?


Yes. Very few will survive on any network (Body of Proof, Happy Endings on ABC; Raising Hope, Bob's Burgers on FOX; probably Nikita on CW and a few yet to be determined on CBS). Overall, not a great year for the networks.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

They're renewing _Supernatural_ again?!?! I thought last season was the last one, then this season was the last one... crazy.


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## natkins (Oct 16, 2004)

I wonder what's the word on "The Good Wife." 

I thought for sure it would be renewed. Easily one of the best shows on TV these days.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

So far, I have yet to see a new series for next season I'm even remotely interested in, Terra Nova aside (possibly).


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## jpcapili (May 13, 2009)

what about for other other tv stations, USA, Syfy, AMC?


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

jpcapili said:


> what about for other other tv stations, USA, Syfy, AMC?


The upfronts for those are on a completely different schedule from primetime broadcast.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

natkins said:


> I wonder what's the word on "The Good Wife."
> 
> I thought for sure it would be renewed. Easily one of the best shows on TV these days.


Word is that it's certain to be renewed, but CBS hasn't made any announcements yet.


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

Shame about Outsourced. Love that show.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> The upfronts for those are on a completely different schedule from primetime broadcast.


Do they even have a standard upfront "season" for cable? It seems like they make announcements about scheduling and renewals all throughout the year.


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## Bulldog7 (Oct 6, 2002)

MikeMar said:


> Wow, ONLY canceled show I have even watched is Mr. Sunshine. Thought it was getting better, but oh well.


That must be why Mathew Perry is back in rehab. He knew his show was toast.


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## Tracy (Mar 12, 2000)

I guess I can dump all the unwatched episodes of Mr. Sunshine I have been holding. I somehow missed the very first episode and was going to go find it online at some point and then catch up. Just saved myself 4 or 5 hours.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

Why are announcements made now? You'd think that to-be-canceled shows with episodes remaining in May would get better ratings (and more profit for the networks) if the audience doesn't yet know they've been canceled. _We_ know they're probably canceled, but I daresay we're far more informed on the subject than the general population.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

tivogurl said:


> Why are announcements made now? You'd think that to-be-canceled shows with episodes remaining in May would get better ratings (and more profit for the networks) if the audience doesn't yet know they've been canceled.


There aren't many of the canceled shows that still have episodes to air. And whether they announced today or next week during the upfront presentation for each network, the news is going to come out within the next few days.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> And whether they announced today or next week during the upfront presentation for each network, the news is going to come out within the next few days.


Why not announce beginning of June, then?


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

The only cancellations that I'm really upset about are _Chase_ and _Detroit 187_. Those were my two favorite new shows last year.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

I was liking Breaking In, really liking Outsourced, and loving Traffic Light.

They're the only cancellations I've been currently watching.

I'll really miss Traffic Light.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

Tracy said:


> I guess I can dump all the unwatched episodes of Mr. Sunshine I have been holding. I somehow missed the very first episode and was going to go find it online at some point and then catch up. Just saved myself 4 or 5 hours.


It's too bad, they Were working out the kinks slowly. Perhaps too slowly. Now where will imget my Andrea Evers fix. She has bad tv karma, the new Paula Marshall.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> It's too bad, they Were working out the kinks slowly. Perhaps too slowly. Now where will imget my Andrea Evers fix. She has bad tv karma, the new Paula Marshall.


She may have low-rated TV karma, but Better Off Ted was certainly not bad TV.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

So that was the series finale for Outsourced? Shame. 

My wife was quite sad about V, but I've been preparing her.


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## maharg18 (Dec 4, 2002)

I'll miss V and The Event, but I'm really upset over Outsourced. Loved that show!


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I'm 7 episodes behind with The Event. I liked the series okay, but mostly because I wanted to see the story arc resolve; I found the actual episodes kind of dull and found myself frequently checking the progress bar . Are the last handful of episodes worth watching?


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Amnesia said:


> The only cancellations that I'm really upset about are _Chase_ and _Detroit 187_. Those were my two favorite new shows last year.


There's not a lot of them that I will miss, but I have to agree with Amnesia on those two - especially _Detroit 1-8-7_. 

Also sad to see Rebecca Hazelwood gone from the screen. She is very attractive!


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

danterner said:


> I'm 7 episodes behind with The Event. I liked the series okay, but mostly because I wanted to see the story arc resolve; I found the actual episodes kind of dull and found myself frequently checking the progress bar . Are the last handful of episodes worth watching?


When I ended up with 4 in the queue I took that as a sign and gave up. Interesting idea but the pace was glacial.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

JLucPicard said:


> There's not a lot of them that I will miss, but I have to agree with Amnesia on those two - especially _Detroit 1-8-7_.
> 
> Also sad to see Rebecca Hazelwood gone from the screen. She is very attractive!


I have a feeling we'll see her again, soon. But I'll miss the vivid colors. I wonder where they filmed the beach-side wedding scenes? Surely they didn't have the budget to travel to India.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

danterner said:


> I'm 7 episodes behind with The Event. I liked the series okay, but mostly because I wanted to see the story arc resolve; I found the actual episodes kind of dull and found myself frequently checking the progress bar . Are the last handful of episodes worth watching?


I'm enjoying it. Not because it's well done or anything, but because I love these types of stories.


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## exegesis48 (Jan 14, 2007)

Highly upset about them canceling Outsourced. We don't even have that many "favorites" in our household, but that was one of them.

Such a shame.


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## Win Joy Jr (Oct 1, 2001)

Oldest daughter is bummed about "V" and "The Event" getting canceled. The "Chuck" pick-up makes up for it a little. Waiting on final call on "The Defenders".. I liked it...


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Win Joy Jr said:


> Waiting on final call on "The Defenders".. I liked it...


Me too. Shocked it didn't do better in the ratings and more talked about here. Jim Belushi and Jerry O'Connell worked terrifically together. I don't have high hopes for this show but I'd be ecstatic if they renewed it.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

While it's not official yet, there's no way The Defenders gets renewed. CBS' problem is trying to figure out which 2-3 shows to cancel in order to make room for new stuff next fall. The Defenders is the first on the list of what will be canceled. The question mark is which other shows get the axe out of Blue Bloods, The Good Wife, CSI: NY, Mad Love, $#!? My Dad Says.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

photoshopgrl said:


> Wait. Officially Better With You was canceled?? Nooooo .


I agree.

I was lucky enough to be in the studio audience for the filming of the final episode. They were upbeat and saying they really were hoping they got picked up for a second season.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

tivogurl said:


> Why not announce beginning of June, then?


Because this week is when they announce the schedule for the fall. It would already be pretty apparent what shows were canceled when they aren't on the schedule anymore.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Added The Defenders, Mad Love, $#!% My Dad Says to the CBS cancellations based on news released today.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

tivogurl said:


> Why not announce beginning of June, then?


Alan Sepinwall, TV critic for Hitfix.com, had this to say in his most recent post:


> This will be my 15th upfront week, if my math is right, and I've never gotten a satisfactory explanation for why this stuff has to happen before the network TV season is actually over.


If he doesn't know the answer, I don't think any of us could come up with one either.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

NBC has released their fall schedule:



> NBC FALL 2011-12 SCHEDULE
> *New programs in UPPER CASE; all times ET)
> 
> MONDAY
> ...


More info here: http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/05/15/nbc-2011-12-primetime-schedule-announced/92597/


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## mmilton80 (Jul 28, 2005)

I liked comedy night done right (on Thursday Night). Damn you, NBC.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> NBC has released their fall schedule:
> 
> More info here: http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/05/15/nbc-2011-12-primetime-schedule-announced/92597/


Ummmm, where's 30 Rock?


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## Michael S (Jan 12, 2004)

busyba said:


> Ummmm, where's 30 Rock?


Coming back mid-season.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

busyba said:


> Ummmm, where's 30 Rock?


Tina Fey is pregnant, so they're giving her a little time off before he has to start working on the next season. Comes back midseason.

There are several other shows that NBC picked up that didn't make the fall schedule that will be used as midseason replacements as well.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Sucks about _The Defenders_. That was a fun show.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> While it's not official yet, there's no way The Defenders gets renewed. CBS' problem is trying to figure out which 2-3 shows to cancel in order to make room for new stuff next fall. The Defenders is the first on the list of what will be canceled. The question mark is which other shows get the axe out of Blue Bloods, The Good Wife, CSI: NY, Mad Love, $#!? My Dad Says.





DevdogAZ said:


> Added The Defenders, Mad Love, $#!% My Dad Says to the CBS cancellations based on news released today.


Not a surprise there.
Blue Bloods is probably safe as it's a Leonard Goldberg production and he has plenty of clout at CBS.
(Although I wonder how Selleck is going to respond if the rumors are true and they intend to make it more procedural.)

The Good Wife has fair to middlin' ratings but the critics like it so it will probably stay
.
And CSI:NY, is this even a question?

TV.com has a piece on what they feel are the most disappointing cancellations so far.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

I liked _Mad Love_. I'm generally not a big fan of sitcoms, but I really like Sarah Chalke and I though the show was a pretty good fit with _HIMYM_


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

What about NCIS LA?


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

JYoung said:


> Not a surprise there.
> Blue Bloods is probably safe as it's a Leonard Goldberg production and he has plenty of clout at CBS.
> (Although I wonder how Selleck is going to respond if the rumors are true and they intend to make it more procedural.)
> 
> ...


CSI: NY's final had the feeling of a series final. They gave everyone a bit of extra screen time.

I like Blue Blood and I think it's nearly a procedural already but with just a touch of the family aspect. I like the current mix a lot.

If they kill of Good Wife, I'm gonna be pissed. I initially thought it was a bad idea but they figured out how to make the one trick storyline work.


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

I'm surprised that $=%& My Dad Said is cancelled (if true).
It was the highest rated new sitcom, often landing in the top 20. It didn't hurt that it followed The Big Bang Theory.
And what a cliffhanger!


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## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

I had already stopped watching Bleep My Dad Says and The Defenders but I will miss Event, Outsourced, V, and Lie to Me. I can't believe they dumped Better With You. I loved Better With You! I think it and Modern Family are easily the top two shows in the two-hour comedy block.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

As I read the list on page one, I think the networks are starting to just give up. More and more useless reality crap. Sooner or later, they should take the channels back since nothing they're broadcasting could be considered in the public interest. 

Now I know why I watch so much stuff on USA. At least they kept Parenthood. Now, if CBS keeps the Good Wife and Blue Bloods at least I'm have a few things to watch on the networks.


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## lambertman (Dec 21, 2002)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> As I read the list on page one, I think the networks are starting to just give up. More and more useless reality crap. Sooner or later, they should take the channels back since nothing they're broadcasting could be considered in the public interest.
> .


As long as those shows get the ratings, there's no violation of any supposed "public interest".


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

$#!% My Dad Says grew on me. I really enjoyed it by the end of the season. It ended with a cliff hanger. I hope it's not true.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

JYoung said:


> Not a surprise there.
> Blue Bloods is probably safe as it's a Leonard Goldberg production and he has plenty of clout at CBS.
> (Although I wonder how Selleck is going to respond if the rumors are true and they intend to make it more procedural.)
> 
> ...


I didn't/don't expect Blue Bloods, Good Wife or CSI: NY to be canceled, but other than The Defenders, those are the lowest rated dramas on the network, and they have to cancel something to make room for some new stuff.


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## FilmCritic3000 (Oct 29, 2004)

I find the new NBC President, Robert Greenblatt, (formerly of Showtime) a breath of fresh air as a network executive. I've never heard a television executive speak in such a down-to-earth manner.

http://www.deadline.com/2011/05/ana...-greenblatt-on-renewing-chuck-canceling-lola/



> SCRIPTED PROGRAMMING ON FRIDAY: NBC has not aired scripted series on the night for awhile but will run Chuck's final season and the first season of the fairy tale-themed Grimm from 8-10 PM, leading into Dateline."I think reinventing Friday with some genre shows is the way to go," Greenblatt said, adding that he decided to use fan favorite Chuck to support freshman Grimm. The decision is somewhat surprising as Fox has already put a claim on Friday as genre night with Fringe.
> 
> Speaking of CHUCK and NBC's decision to renew it, "Chuck is a good show, which gets bad rap from always being on the cancellation line," Greennblatt said. "We're giving the show a send-off with a final season, that's what the fans want."


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

DevdogAZ said:


> NBC has released their fall schedule:
> 
> More info here: http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/05/15/nbc-2011-12-primetime-schedule-announced/92597/


Parks & Rec back in the fall -- glad we don't have to wait around till the winter, again.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Here's Fox's schedule:

Monday (fall) - Terra Nova, followed by House
Monday (January) - House, followed by Alcatraz

Tuesday - Glee, followed by New Girl (title subject to change) and Raising Hope
During March, when Glee is on hiatus, I Hate My Teenage Daughter will move to Tuesday, and another new comedy - either Family Album or Little in Common - will be added

Wednesday (fall) - The X Factor (90 min), followed by I Hate My Teenage Daughter (title subject to change)
Wednesday (January) - American Idol, followed by IHMTD (see note on Tuesday about IHMTD in March)

Thursday (fall) - The X Factor, followed by Bones
Thursday (January) - The X Factor, followed by The Finder (Bones returns later in the season)

Friday - Kitchen Nightmares, followed by Fringe

Saturday - Cops, followed by repeats or the occasional America's Most Wanted special

Sunday (fall) - either an animated repeat or a Fox NFL highlights show, The Cleveland Show, The Simpsons, Allen Gregory, Family Guy, American Dad
(on NFL doubleheader days, the repeat and The Cleveland Show are pre-empted by Fox's NFL postgame show)
Sunday (January) - animated repeat, The Cleveland Show, The Simpsons, Napoleon Dynamite, Family Guy, Bob's Burgers

Touch (Kiefer Sutherland's new show) has not been assigned a timeslot yet, but is listed as "sometime this season"


A couple of other notes:

What is it with Fox and sitcom titles? All of their new ones are listed as "working titles".

The announced schedule says that "The O.T." runs until 7:30 on Sundays, and The Cleveland Show runs every week. I seriously doubt this, but I can think of four possibilities:
(a) Fox will run a 30-minute NFL highlights show on Sundays that aren't NFL doubleheader days;
(b) it's just a scheduling mixup, and it will be "business as usual" (The O.T. runs until 8:00 on NFL doubleheader days, and Fox airs an animated repeat followed by The Cleveland Show on other Sundays);
(c) the same as (b), but in the west, they'll take the 7:30 timeslot back from the affiliates and air west-only Cleveland repeats;
(d) they forget the mess they made with King of the Hill the last time they tried scheduling a show at 7:30 on an NFL doubleheader day.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

The only problem I have with the schedule is the Fringe lead-in of Kitchen Nightmares. They couldn't find a less compatible show if they tried. I'd sooner see an encore performance of Terra Nova on Friday than that.

Otherwise, no major surprises, no major changes from this season... FOX seems happy with what they have now.

Edit: I take that back, AMW finally gone as a regular series? That's a bit surprising.


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

Well, looking the original post I have had my schedule cut in half for me. 

The winner though is ABC who managed to cancel all the shows I actually watched on their network (V, No Ordinary Family and Mr. Sunshine).


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> The only problem I have with the schedule is the Fringe lead-in of Kitchen Nightmares. They couldn't find a less compatible show if they tried. I'd sooner see an encore performance of Terra Nova on Friday than that.


I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to air Touch on Fridays (or move Alcatraz to Friday while they air Touch on Monday) in midseason. I don't think they have enough Kitchen Nightmares episodes for a full season.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm kind of surprised their moving House around. 9 pm in the fall and back to 8 pm in the spring? That's not the way you treat a veteran hit.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

With today's news, there are 2 more shows I can removed from my DVR's season pass list. Crap my Dad Says and Mad Love were shows I watched. I really liked the cast of Mad Love. A lot of them were in stuff I loved in the past and I'd like to see them succeed. Oh well.


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

I agree. I enjoyed Mad Love and I really liked all of the cast (they were the reason I gave it chance in the first place).


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

A month or two ago, I ran into a 50 show limit on my DVR's season pass list. I removed some SyFy shows that are coming back this summer and such. With all the cancellations, I'm now down to 38 shows. I have a couple shows to add back this summer, but I was watching a lot of TV that got cancelled.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> I liked _Mad Love_. I'm generally not a big fan of sitcoms, but I really like Sarah Chalke and I though the show was a pretty good fit with _HIMYM_


Me too. I guess we're the only ones.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

Hoffer said:


> A month or two ago, I ran into a 50 show limit on my DVR's season pass list.


I have more than 50 season passes in my TiVoHD and TiVo S2.

ABC and NBC both canceled every show I watched on those networks (but I do have wishlists for Prime Suspect, Grimm, and Awake). Wednesdays are completely empty for me. Network shows are now a minority.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

That Don Guy said:


> Here's Fox's schedule:
> 
> Saturday - Cops, followed by repeats or the occasional America's Most Wanted special


Fox announced that the AMW specials will be two-hour shows airing once every three months.


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## Mike10 (Mar 1, 2006)

fox should stop putting out there mid seasons schedules because it always ends up being totally different then the one that gets released at the upfronts


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Mike10 said:


> fox should stop putting out there mid seasons schedules because it always ends up being totally different then the one that gets released at the upfronts


Although in the past that's been the case because FOX's fall schedule often crashes and burns, it's likely to be more stable this season with The X-Factor and Terra Nova, as well as House, Glee, Bones, and Fringe. It's unlikely there will need to be many changes at midseason as in the recent past.

Besides, everyone knows that the midseason schedules announced at the May upfronts are tentative at best. Their main purpose is to show which midseason shows have enough confidence from the execs to warrant an announced timeslot. If that timeslot changes, it's not a big deal.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Upfront trailers for FOX

Upfront trailers for NBC


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## holee (Dec 12, 2000)

I'm going to miss Outsourced. It was one of my favorite new shows. That show had some of the funniest dialogues.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

That Don Guy said:


> The announced schedule says that "The O.T." runs until 7:30 on Sundays, and The Cleveland Show runs every week. I seriously doubt this, but I can think of four possibilities:
> (a) Fox will run a 30-minute NFL highlights show on Sundays that aren't NFL doubleheader days;
> (b) it's just a scheduling mixup, and it will be "business as usual" (The O.T. runs until 8:00 on NFL doubleheader days, and Fox airs an animated repeat followed by The Cleveland Show on other Sundays);
> (c) the same as (b), but in the west, they'll take the 7:30 timeslot back from the affiliates and air west-only Cleveland repeats;
> (d) they forget the mess they made with King of the Hill the last time they tried scheduling a show at 7:30 on an NFL doubleheader day.


I E-mailed the contacts on Fox's press release, and got a response; (b) is correct - The O.T. airs only on NFL doubleheader days, and it runs until 8 PM; on other Sundays, an animated repeat airs at 7:00, and The Cleveland Show at 7:30.


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## reddice (Mar 6, 2004)

So they keep reality crap like American Idiot and Dancing with the Morons but they cancel V and No Ordinary Family. I did watch V so I am peeved that got canceled with a good cliffhanger. No Ordinary Family I only watched a couple of episodes but I was going to watch the rest of the season. Since it is cancelled I won't even bother.

The only freshman show that might make it is Nikita on the CW. Please I hope that does not get cancelled for another hour for more reality crap. No wonder I been streaming more Netflix and watching some great shows from the past that I did not watch because of school work and bedtimes when they actually gave shows a change and there was ZERO reality crap on the networks.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

While I'm a big fan of Julie Benz (and of Michael Chiklis albeit for different reasons), I hardly think that _No Ordinary Family_ should be near the top of anyone's list of shows that they want uncanceled...

Though I watched the entire season of _NOF_, that's probably the canceled show (that I watched) that I'm least upset about losing...


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

So if 30 rock is midseason.. that means it only gets a half season worth of episodes... right? for what may (will?) be its final season? Baldwin said he's done after next season (even though he's also said it's the most fun he's ever had...)


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mattack said:


> So if 30 rock is midseason.. that means it only gets a half season worth of episodes... right? for what may (will?) be its final season? Baldwin said he's done after next season (even though he's also said it's the most fun he's ever had...)


No, NBC confirmed that it will still air all 22 episodes, just like Parks & Rec this year.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> No, NBC confirmed that it will still air all 22 episodes, just like Parks & Rec this year.


Right. Just means fewer rerun weeks during the run.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

busyba said:


> Right. Just means fewer rerun weeks during the run.


Probably none. Which means a lot of reruns surrounding it, since the other Thursday night shows will only be showing 10-12 or so shows in that same time frame. Which is not usually what they like to do, since they like to schedule full new show nights, and full rerun nights.

-smak-


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

smak said:


> Probably none. Which means a lot of reruns surrounding it, since the other Thursday night shows will only be showing 10-12 or so shows in that same time frame. Which is not usually what they like to do, since they like to schedule full new show nights, and full rerun nights.


Which is still possible - NBC also likes to run two new episodes of a show back-to-back every now and then.

(Speaking of which, :up: to NBC for not listing back-to-back new episodes of, for example, Parks & Recreation as a single hour-long episode and then claiming that it's "an hour-long episode," like some networks (coughFoxcough).)


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## Gromit (Nov 4, 1999)

smak said:


> Upfront trailers for FOX
> 
> Upfront trailers for NBC


Some of those look really good. I can't wait to get emotionally invested only to have them all cancelled mid-season.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

ABC has announced their fall schedule:



> DAY TIME SERIES
> 
> MONDAY: 8:00 p.m. "Dancing with the Stars"
> 10:00 p.m. "Castle"
> ...


Cougar Town has been saved for midseason. Several other new shows also saved for midseason.

More info here: http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...Twitter&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitter


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Charlie's Angels?
Again?


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

I've read most if not all of the descriptions for the new shows this year and there are some weird similarities. Two shows about the '60s (Playboy Club, Pan Am), two about fairy tales (Grimm, Once Upon a Time), two about 'mean girls' (Good Christian Belles, I Hate My Teenage Daughter), three 'searching for someone' shows (Missing, The River, The Finder), 3 men being men, or women, shows (Work it, Man Up, Last Man Standing).


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

CBS kills off 'Criminal Minds: Suspect Behavior'


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

smak said:


> Upfront trailers for FOX
> 
> Upfront trailers for NBC


Some good looking shows there. Smash should be great if McPhee is that good in all the episodes.

The playboy club looks interesting too. Sadly, I was only at the one in Great Gorge twice before they went away. It was still ok to be sexist back then. Even in the 70's.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I've added a few new series to CW's list in the OP, as well as indicated that Hellcats was canceled.

All that remains, really, is for CBS to make official that they're picking up several shows that haven't been officially renewed, and then for CBS (Wednesday) and CW (Thursday) to announce their fall schedules.

Here's a great site showing pictures or trailers and a synopsis of each new series: http://www.thedailybeast.com/galleries/2897/1/


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Yes. Very few will survive on any network (Body of Proof, Happy Endings on ABC; Raising Hope, Bob's Burgers on FOX; probably Nikita on CW and a few yet to be determined on CBS). Overall, not a great year for the networks.


This is why I can't wait for June and the Summer Cable season, which is now the best tv season of the year.

The networks have screwed the pooch over and over.. and looking at the new shows they are picking up for next year, it is not going to be any better.


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

robojerk said:


> CBS kills off 'Criminal Minds: Suspect Behavior'


I wanted to enjoy the show, but I could never get past the first episode or so....

I don't know who screwed up a sequel more, NBC and Law and Order LA or CBS and Criminal Minds Suspect Behavior.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

marksman said:


> I wanted to enjoy the show, but I could never get past the first episode or so....
> 
> I don't know who screwed up a sequel more, NBC and Law and Order LA or CBS and Criminal Minds Suspect Behavior.


I don't care who screwed it up more. I'm just thrilled that these "sequel" shows have struggled, so perhaps the networks will think twice in the future when deciding whether to just make the exact same show in a different locale.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Gromit said:


> Some of those look really good. I can't wait to get emotionally invested only to have them all cancelled mid-season.


I think Awake is already cancelled 

-smak-


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

ABC Trailers


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

smak said:


> I think Awake is already cancelled
> 
> -smak-


From what I've heard/read from multiple critics, Awake is the consensus pick for the best, or at least most intriguing, new show. Hopefully, but waiting until midseason, NBC can find a week when there aren't 20 other things premiering and get it some good promotion.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Yay for "Shark Tank". I had thought that this second season was a mix of leftover episodes and a pity season..

Will "What Would You Do" be back? While I think they're getting to the bottom of the barrel in scenarios (kind of like Mythbusters), it's still entertaining (kind of like Mythbusters).


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

smak said:


> ABC Trailers


Seriously, what are they thinking with Work it? It was amusing 25 years ago as Bosum Buddies but that gimmick can't sustain a show. This one is DOA.

Pan Am sounds fun and the new Tim Allen show has promise. (he needs more money, right?).


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

marksman said:


> This is why I can't wait for June and the Summer Cable season, which is now the best tv season of the year.
> 
> The networks have screwed the pooch over and over.. and looking at the new shows they are picking up for next year, it is not going to be any better.


++

I love the cable summer season ( or even late spring) I watch much more shows during the summer than I do on the Network Fall season.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Since I knew the rest of these already, the one that surprised me (although I guess it shouldn't) was Outsourced which I was skeptical watching for political reasons, but turned out to be really funny once the characters were developed. I will miss that one.

Out of all the Friends/Couples shows the one that I didn't like was the one that was kept (Happy Endings). I will miss Traffic Light, and Mad Love, which really grew on me after getting close to losing it's SP.

Going to clear off a bunch more SPs tonight and make room for my summer shows.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> ...Outsourced which I was skeptical watching for political reasons...


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

busyba said:


>


I'll just leave it as I'm not a big fan of the amount of outsourcing done by Corp America and allowed by our politicians. My gut told me not to watch Outsourced as it might glorify the trend. But the show was well written and I enjoyed it.


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## mercurial (Oct 17, 2002)

Clearly you didn't see the original movie...


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I never saw the movie "Outsourced". I saw a preview of the TV show pilot on-line and thought it would suck. But I setup the SP anyway. It turned out to be pretty decent. Funny. Several of the characters developed well and had their place, etc. etc. I think Gupta became my favorite.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

CBS announces their fall schedule. The Good Wife moves to Sunday, CSI moves to Wednesday, new JJ Abrams drama takes CSI's slot on Thursday, and Rules of Engagement moves to Saturday?


> CBS TELEVISION NETWORK
> 2011-2012 PRIMETIME SCHEDULE
> (N=New, NT=New Time, all times ET/PT)
> 
> ...


More info here: http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...oves-to-sundays-at-9-csi-to-weds-at-10/93133/


----------



## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

tivogurl said:


> I have more than 50 season passes in my TiVoHD and TiVo S2.


I don't have a TiVo anymore. I've got a DirecTV DVR. I still call it the season pass list as I'm not sure what DirecTV calls theirs. They might call it series manager or something.


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## mercurial (Oct 17, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> I never saw the movie "Outsourced". I saw a preview of the TV show pilot on-line and thought it would suck. But I setup the SP anyway. It turned out to be pretty decent. Funny. Several of the characters developed well and had their place, etc. etc. I think Gupta became my favorite.


The movie was (is) great and I from the look of the series I didn't want to spoil that memory. Though I had thought about picking it up for a look recently - though I guess that point is moot now.


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

Glad to see CBS is sticking with a lot of the shows I like, although I'll miss The Defenders a little bit, and I'm not crazy about having The Good Wife on Sundays after football. Guess I'll have to pad the TiVo recording by 2 hours.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

DevdogAZ said:


> CBS announces their fall schedule. The Good Wife moves to Sunday, CSI moves to Wednesday, new JJ Abrams drama takes CSI's slot on Thursday, and Rules of Engagement moves to Saturday?


Well, at least they didn't cancel RoE. As long as I have DVRs (and no conflicts) they can put it anywhere.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

mercurial said:


> Clearly you didn't see the original movie...


I saw about half the original movie, which was also pretty good, just never got a chance to go back to it.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Graymalkin said:


> Glad to see CBS is sticking with a lot of the shows I like, although I'll miss The Defenders a little bit, and I'm not crazy about having The Good Wife on Sundays after football. Guess I'll have to pad the TiVo recording by 2 hours.


Yeah, I hate what CBS does on Sundays. They should follow the Fox model and not schedule stuff until 8. But, I know 60 Minutes has been in the 7PM timeslot for years and it's not going to change. I just wind up padding Sunday, pretty much the whole night.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

RGM1138 said:


> Well, at least they didn't cancel RoE. As long as I have DVRs (and no conflicts) they can put it anywhere.


Outside of Fox's reality crime shows, is this the first time a new scripted show has been scheduled on Saturday night in years? I can't remember the last one.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

Graymalkin said:


> Glad to see CBS is sticking with a lot of the shows I like, although I'll miss The Defenders a little bit, and I'm not crazy about having The Good Wife on Sundays after football. Guess I'll have to pad the TiVo recording by 2 hours.


Sunday night is a strange lineup. A reality game show, a courtroom drama and a cartoon cop show.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

RGM1138 said:


> Well, at least they didn't cancel RoE. As long as I have DVRs (and no conflicts) they can put it anywhere.


That was the reason they cited for putting it there. It gets a decent audience in whatever timeslot they stick it in, without any promotion. Since CBS will share in the syndication revenue, they have an interest in keeping the show going, even if its first-run episodes don't get great ratings. Also, now that RoE is getting 22 episode seasons, it's not as easy to plug it in midseason like they did the first several years.


Steveknj said:


> Outside of Fox's reality crime shows, is this the first time a new scripted show has been scheduled on Saturday night in years? I can't remember the last one.


2003-04 was the last time any of the networks had scripted shows on Saturday ("Hack" and "The District" on CBS).


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

Steveknj said:


> Outside of Fox's reality crime shows, is this the first time a new scripted show has been scheduled on Saturday night in years? I can't remember the last one.


It seems to me that Flashpoint was running for awhile on Saturdays last year. I may be mistaken, though.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> That was the reason they cited for putting it there. It gets a decent audience in whatever timeslot they stick it in, without any promotion. Since CBS will share in the syndication revenue, they have an interest in keeping the show going, even if its first-run episodes don't get great ratings. Also, now that RoE is getting 22 episode seasons, it's not as easy to plug it in midseason like they did the first several years.
> 
> 2003-04 was the last time any of the networks had scripted shows on Saturday ("Hack" and "The District" on CBS).


It is a long time. I find it so interesting that growing up in the late 60s and early 70s, CBS had such a strong Saturday night lineup for years. All In the Family, Mary Tyler Moore, The Bob Newhart Show and Carol Burnett were ratings winners. I guess people just got busier and busier on Saturday night


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> I never saw the movie "Outsourced". I saw a preview of the TV show pilot on-line and thought it would suck. But I setup the SP anyway. It turned out to be pretty decent. Funny. Several of the characters developed well and had their place, etc. etc. I think Gupta became my favorite.


Check out the movie. I saw it before the show. It's clear it was based on it, but it takes very different directions. Worth checking out.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> It is a long time. I find it so interesting that growing up in the late 60s and early 70s, CBS had such a strong Saturday night lineup for years. All In the Family, Mary Tyler Moore, The Bob Newhart Show and Carol Burnett were ratings winners.


And then ABC with _The Love Boat_ and _Fantasy Island_.

The problem is, somebody invented this thing called the VCR, and somebody else discovered that you can make boatloads of money by renting movies (without commercials or other network-necessary edits for language or nudity), which people started to do on Saturday nights rather than go out. Eventually, "network programming for Saturday nights" went the way of "network programming for movies."

I just wonder how _Entertainment Weekly_ is going to handle this - in the past three years, the "Saturday" section of its Fall TV Preview consisted of a review of _The Love Boat_ on DVD one year, and two years of a small box saying, "There's Nothing On!"


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

RGM1138 said:


> It seems to me that Flashpoint was running for awhile on Saturdays last year. I may be mistaken, though.


First, I think the stat is that no scripted drama has been scheduled for a Saturday night time slot in the fall since 2003-04. But also, I think Flashpoint aired on Fridays in the summer, but might have had repeats or burnoffs on Saturday. That's entirely different than being scheduled there in the fall from the start.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> ABC has announced their fall schedule:
> 
> Cougar Town has been saved for midseason. Several other new shows also saved for midseason.
> 
> More info here: http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...Twitter&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitter


Don't watch one show on ABC...."major" networks continue their steady decline...


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## reddice (Mar 6, 2004)

The new season does not interest me at all. The shows I liked from this season were all cancelled except Nikita. Not going to even bother with the new shows as they will get cancelled for some stupid reality talent show.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

reddice said:


> The new season does not interest me at all. The shows I liked from this season were all cancelled except Nikita. Not going to even bother with the new shows as they will get cancelled for some stupid reality talent show.


Do you ever make a post where you don't complain about reality TV? We get it, you don't like reality TV. But the fact is, many, many Americans do enjoy it, and it makes lots of money for the networks, so it's not going away. All we can hope is that there continues to be good scripted drama and comedy IN ADDITION TO reality TV. Over the past ten years, despite the proliferation of reality TV, we have seen some of the best dramas and comedies in the history of TV, so I don't think there's any reason to believe that well-written scripted TV and reality can't coexist. The main difference is that the quality stuff has been shifting more and more toward cable. But even if one doesn't have access to cable, most of these shows become available in other formats as well, so I have no problem with the quality stuff moving to cable.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Do you ever make a post where you don't complain about reality TV? We get it, you don't like reality TV. But the fact is, many, many Americans do enjoy it, and it makes lots of money for the networks, so it's not going away. All we can hope is that there continues to be good scripted drama and comedy IN ADDITION TO reality TV. Over the past ten years, despite the proliferation of reality TV, we have seen some of the best dramas and comedies in the history of TV, so I don't think there's any reason to believe that well-written scripted TV and reality can't coexist. The main difference is that the quality stuff has been shifting more and more toward cable. But even if one doesn't have access to cable, most of these shows become available in other formats as well, so I have no problem with the quality stuff moving to cable.


The proliferation of reality TV irks me as well, but it is pointless complaining about it because it's not going anywhere. But I'm not quite convinced that quality of today's dramas and comedies compare that favorably to the older stuff. IMO, only Lost on the drama side and perhaps Arrested Development on the comedy side would get a look over what I was watching in the 70s - 90s. Don't get me wrong, there's good stuff, but I think most of the BEST stuff I've seen in the last ten years are on cable. And I do watch a lot of the major nets.


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## reddice (Mar 6, 2004)

Besides Lost from the last decade the bests shows on the networks were from the 80s & 90s which I am catching up on Netflix


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Name me anything from before 2000 that compares favorably with the following:

Dramas:
The Sopranos
Deadwood
Breaking Bad
Mad Men
The West Wing
LOST
24
Fringe
The Wire
The Shield
Arrested Development
Modern Family
Friday Night Lights
Curb Your Enthusiasm
Battlestar Galactica
30 Rock
Veronica Mars

Yes, I realize that a couple of these shows started before 2000, but they all aired the bulk of their episodes since 2000.

I'm not saying there aren't some great shows from before 2000, but I seriously doubt that before 2000, great TV programs were being produced in the quantity they are now.


----------



## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

Twin Peaks
NYPD Blue
My So Called Life
Cosby Show
Friends
Larry Sanders
Sports Night
That 70's Show
Babylon 5 (?)
The Commish
Northern Exposure
Mad About You
Home Improvement
Futurama
Law and Order
Walker Texas Ranger...
etc...


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Terra Nova first look trailer


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Alfer said:


> Twin Peaks
> NYPD Blue
> My So Called Life
> Cosby Show
> ...


Obviously quality is subjective. And obviously, there were quality shows before 2000. But I think if you took a poll of 100 TV critics, there would only be a couple shows from your list that would rank above most of the shows from my list. And many of yours wouldn't be found on any critics list of top shows.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Obviously quality is subjective. And obviously, there were quality shows before 2000. But I think if you took a poll of 100 TV critics, there would only be a couple shows from your list that would rank above most of the shows from my list. And many of yours wouldn't be found on any critics list of top shows.


TV Critics from when? Most TV Critics this day and age are pups who haven't seen anything from before '90.

I'll give you some more shows before 2000 that were great or at least influential.

I Love Lucy
Star Trek
Courtship of Eddie's Father
Room 222
All in the Family
Hill Street Blues
L.A. Law
Mayberry RFD
Taxi
M.A.S.H.
The Muppet Show
WKRP in Cincinnati
Little House on the Prairie
Star Trek: TNG
The Simpsons
Night Court
St. Elsewhere
Mystery Science Theater 3000
Mission Impossible
Wiseguy
Doogie Howser

Point being, there's always people who think that the shows they're watching now are the BEST EVER!!! And then there are always people who think that TV is on the decline.

It's both, and neither. For all the crap TV you can name now, you can name just as much crap TV from yesteryear. It's just different crap. And for all the good TV you can name now, there's just as much from yesteryear.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

That's basically my point: Despite the proliferation of crap reality shows, there is just as much quality scripted programming today as there ever has been. Great shows before 2000, great shows since.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> That's basically my point: Despite the proliferation of crap reality shows, there is just as much quality scripted programming today as there ever has been. Great shows before 2000, great shows since.


While there is certainly SOME quality scripted stuff, the issue is where. If you're talking the networks, the answer is no, it's nowhere near the same. Just the numbers tell you that. Pre 2000, there was virtually no unscripted programming on the networks aside from 60 minutes. The rest was, dramas, comedy, variety, mystery and scifi. Just the numbers tell that story.

I could also make a good case for the new dramas being more popular due to be less constrained. About half your list is non network and hence, has greater latitude. Several of your list could not be aired on network tv.

I do know that the trend against the network isn't gonna change.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> While there is certainly SOME quality scripted stuff, the issue is where. If you're talking the networks, the answer is no, it's nowhere near the same. Just the numbers tell you that. Pre 2000, there was virtually no unscripted programming on the networks aside from 60 minutes. The rest was, dramas, comedy, variety, mystery and scifi. Just the numbers tell that story.
> 
> I could also make a good case for the new dramas being more popular due to be less constrained. About half your list is non network and hence, has greater latitude. Several of your list could not be aired on network tv.
> 
> I do know that the trend against the network isn't gonna change.


Of course. As network audiences shrink, and as cable audiences grow, there will continue to be more quality programming on cable. It's just a fact. Broadcast networks have to try to draw in every demographic, and so their shows end up being too broad and bland. Cable nets can be a little more targeted with their programming and thus can take more chances.

Pre-2000, there just wasn't enough money in original cable programming to make quality dramas make sense on any kind of large scale, but now there is plenty of money available from cable nets, and channels like AMC have shown that if you air quality programs, people will find you, even if they'd never heard of you before.

The line between broadcast networks and cable networks is going to get more and more fuzzy. The % of American viewers that have access to cable today is over 90%, and with other delivery methods such as streaming and DVD, it soon won't matter whether a show is on a broadcast or cable network. The broadcast networks can be left with their bland "please-everyone" crap and the cable nets can fill our need for quality programming.


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## thewebgal (Aug 10, 2007)

DevdogAZ said:


> Do you ever make a post where you don't complain about reality TV? We get it, you don't like reality TV. But the fact is, many, many Americans do enjoy it, and it makes lots of money for the networks, so it's not going away. All we can hope is that there continues to be good scripted drama and comedy IN ADDITION TO reality TV. Over the past ten years, despite the proliferation of reality TV, we have seen some of the best dramas and comedies in the history of TV, so I don't think there's any reason to believe that well-written scripted TV and reality can't coexist. The main difference is that the quality stuff has been shifting more and more toward cable. But even if one doesn't have access to cable, most of these shows become available in other formats as well, so I have no problem with the quality stuff moving to cable.


Lots of people feel the same - I could toss all the reality shows away and never miss a one of them. Its not that "lots of people like them", its that lots of people will watch anything you put in front of them, plus as 'unscripted shows" they are REALLY cheap to make ...

Lets face it, for a lot of us, mainstream TV is just not that interesting - the most fun we've had lately is watching Hamish Macbeth, a late 90s show from BBC Scotland with Robert Carlyle (Rush from the now cancelled SGU)!

But I'll go through the new season and see which non-police-procedural amuses us - maybe it'll actually have decent writers and last a few episides!


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

thewebgal said:


> Lots of people feel the same - I could toss all the reality shows away and never miss a one of them. Its not that "lots of people like them", its that lots of people will watch anything you put in front of them, plus as 'unscripted shows" they are REALLY cheap to make ...
> 
> Lets face it, for a lot of us, mainstream TV is just not that interesting - the most fun we've had lately is watching Hamish Macbeth, a late 90s show from BBC Scotland with Robert Carlyle (Rush from the now cancelled SGU)!
> 
> But I'll go through the new season and see which non-police-procedural amuses us - maybe it'll actually have decent writers and last a few episides!


If mainstream TV is that uninteresting to you, disconnect your cable and subscribe to all the damn BBC shows you want through Neflix. And save the snobby attitude for people who will be "amused." Though I doubt you'll find many.


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Of course. As network audiences shrink, and as cable audiences grow, there will continue to be more quality programming on cable. It's just a fact. Broadcast networks have to try to draw in every demographic, and so their shows end up being too broad and bland. Cable nets can be a little more targeted with their programming and thus can take more chances.
> 
> Pre-2000, there just wasn't enough money in original cable programming to make quality dramas make sense on any kind of large scale, but now there is plenty of money available from cable nets, and channels like AMC have shown that if you air quality programs, people will find you, even if they'd never heard of you before.
> 
> The line between broadcast networks and cable networks is going to get more and more fuzzy. The % of American viewers that have access to cable today is over 90%, and with other delivery methods such as streaming and DVD, it soon won't matter whether a show is on a broadcast or cable network. The broadcast networks can be left with their bland "please-everyone" crap and the cable nets can fill our need for quality programming.


I haven't seen much on cable that I'd care to watch, and the ratings show that 95% of the top primetime shows are on the broadcast networks. Cable has pretty much always been re-run land and I don't see that changing very much.

Most of what I watch on cable is news and documentaries (discovery, natgeo).


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Of course. As network audiences shrink, and as cable audiences grow, there will continue to be more quality programming on cable. It's just a fact. Broadcast networks have to try to draw in every demographic, and so their shows end up being too broad and bland. Cable nets can be a little more targeted with their programming and thus can take more chances.
> 
> Pre-2000, there just wasn't enough money in original cable programming to make quality dramas make sense on any kind of large scale, but now there is plenty of money available from cable nets, and channels like AMC have shown that if you air quality programs, people will find you, even if they'd never heard of you before.
> 
> *The line between broadcast networks and cable networks is going to get more and more fuzzy. * The % of American viewers that have access to cable today is over 90%, and with other delivery methods such as streaming and DVD, it soon won't matter whether a show is on a broadcast or cable network. The broadcast networks can be left with their bland "please-everyone" crap and the cable nets can fill our need for quality programming.


When you put your original post, I thought you were just talking about the major nets, which is in context with this thread. To me, the majority of great scripted shows is on cable/premium. There are exceptions of course, and a couple would rank up there with the top 100 shows of all time.

But I agree about the line being blurred. My kids for example don't even think of the difference. And I am getting to that point too. To me there are three differences left that I see:

1) The use of profanity and or nudity can be used and is on some of the cable networks (USA for example chooses not to use either).

2) Cable networks show their scripted shows multiple times a week, which means the get a lower priority on my DVR. While the shows might not be better, network shows always get a higher priority and I tend to watch them first. This btw, p*sses me off sometimes as The Good Wife didn't record as it should due to the storms and I had to watch it at CBS.com, no DD 5.1 and inferior picture. With cable channels, miss it once and you have other opportunities to catch it.

3) Short seasons. I like the cable model of 7-8 episodes 2-3 times a year. Since you expect it, it doesn't bother me the way that shows like V or The Event go on hiatus for 3 months and you are never quite sure if it's coming back. With the short seasons, the story lines are self contain within those time frames, which isn't the case on network TV.

Otherwise, it makes no real difference where a show it to me anymore.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Raj said:


> I haven't seen much on cable that I'd care to watch, and the ratings show that 95% of the top primetime shows are on the broadcast networks. Cable has pretty much always been re-run land and I don't see that changing very much.
> 
> Most of what I watch on cable is news and documentaries (discovery, natgeo).


Sure, there are lots of reruns on cable, but during primetime on many of the major cable networks they have original scripted programming. Many of these shows rival the broadcast networks for quality. For example: 
AMC: Breaking Bad, Mad Men, The Killing, The Walking Dead 
FX: Justified, Sons of Anarchy, Rescue Me, Archer, Louie, The League, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
USA: Burn Notice, White Collar, Royal Pains, Psych, Fairly Legal, Covert Affairs
Syfy: Eureka, Warehouse 13, Sanctuary
ABC Family: I'm not familiar with their current shows, but I know they have original programming, some of which is decent.
Disney and Nickelodeon have original scripted stuff aimed at kids.
Lifetime and I'm sure others have original scripted stuff aimed at women.

I'm sure there are many other channels that also produce original scripted programming that I'm just not familiar with because it's not targeted at me.

And that doesn't even include the premium cable networks, which always have great original scripted programming, such as:
HBO: Boardwalk Empire, Game of Thrones, True Blood, Treme, Eastbound and Down, Bored to Death, Entourage, In Treatment, Flight of the Conchords, How to Make it in America, Hung
Showtime: Dexter, Weeds, The Borgias, Nurse Jackie, United States of Tara, The Big C
Starz: Spartacus, Torchwood, Camelot

Sure, these shows don't rate as high as the broadcast networks, but that's purely because generations are used to the broadcast nets being the only option. That's changing.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

The CW announced its Fall schedule:


> MONDAY
> 8 pm Gossip Girl
> 9 pm HART OF DIXIE
> 
> ...


Read the full press release here: http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...ita-moves-to-fridays-90210-to-tuesdays/93261/


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Great thread. Maybe the OP should be edited to break out renewed shows that won't be on in the fall? (30 Rock, Cougar Town, American Idol, etc.).

I did see somewhere that 30 Rock will have a run of 22 new episodes in a row without reruns, starting in January, a la Lost and 24.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

Looks like Nikita will be the only show I watch on CW. 

I have heard that Vampire Diaries is a good show. I watched the first 2 episodes of it, but did not care for it. I've heard that the show got a lot better after that. I've got the first season in my Netflix queue. Should probably move disc 1 closer to the top of my queue.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

I can't believe I have more shows to record this fall on Friday (7) than any other night of the week and only one show on Thursday.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

aindik said:


> Great thread. Maybe the OP should be edited to break out renewed shows that won't be on in the fall? (30 Rock, Cougar Town, American Idol, etc.).


Done.


aindik said:


> I did see somewhere that 30 Rock will have a run of 22 new episodes in a row without reruns, starting in January, a la Lost and 24.


Did you see it earlier in this thread?


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Did you see it earlier in this thread?


I saw that it would start in January earlier in the thread. I didn't see 22 episodes in a row earlier in the thread.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

I guess I watch some reality shows but just not many. With the tons of good stuff on History and Discovery, I never have an empty Tivo. So it doesn't matter what the networks do, there is always something decent to watch.
I am catching up on never having watched Glee. So old shows are a good substitute also. I did that with West Wing also.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

aindik said:


> I saw that it would start in January earlier in the thread. I didn't see 22 episodes in a row earlier in the thread.


NBC hasn't specifically stated that 30 Rock will air 22 episodes straight through without a break like 24 or LOST. But it has confirmed that 30 Rock has a 22 episode order, and that means that if it starts in January and airs one per week, it's pretty much got to run straight through with no breaks or reruns.

However, Parks & Rec did that this year, and they got to May and had a few extra episodes, so last week and tonight, they aired two episodes each night.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

re: the CW lineup

I guess this means Hellcats is cancelled/not-renewed? Damn.. That had some major eyecandy. The good news is that the new series Hart of Dixie features "The O.C." hottie Rachel Bilson. 

I was curious what H8R was about. Here is what that website has to say



> On Wednesday, new reality series H8R brings celebrities face-to-face with the people who love to hate them, with host Mario Lopez, 8:00-9:00 p.m. With its focus on celebrity culture


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

Looking at the 2011 fall TV grid, looks like at least on the 4 network channels I don't have any conflicts next year. I can record everything I am planning to. Now throw USA/TNT/FX etc... into the mix, there might be some issues, but all those shows pretty much repeat at least 1 time the same night if not early next morning.


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## reddice (Mar 6, 2004)

I do enjoy the original cable programs more I watch on USA & SyFi and the documentaries on the Discovery Networks and I love Doctor Who. However I watch ZERO of the original shows on the premium channels like HBO, Showtime & Starz because I HATE the profanity, sex & nudity which they do go overboard with.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> 3) Short seasons. I like the cable model of 7-8 episodes 2-3 times a year.


Actually, that's fairly uncommon. While there have been a few series that have done small, split seasons in a single year, the more common model is ~13 episodes once a year.


reddice said:


> I do enjoy the original cable programs more I watch on USA & SyFi and the documentaries on the Discovery Networks and I love Doctor Who. *However I watch ZERO of the original shows on the premium channels like HBO, Showtime & Starz *because I HATE the profanity, sex & nudity which they do go overboard with.


I think you are missing *lots* of good series. Yes, some of them have a little of your dislikes (and some do have lots). But in many cases, it's either minimal or non-existent. And there are some great series.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

astrohip said:


> Actually, that's fairly uncommon. While there have been a few series that have done small, split seasons in a single year, the more common model is ~13 episodes once a year.


Well, I admit to watching a lot of USA series and they do it quite often with their shows. So does Comedy Central. I know South Park is split over two shorter seasons. Even 13 episodes is a short season.


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## Michael S (Jan 12, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> Well, I admit to watching a lot of USA series and they do it quite often with their shows. So does Comedy Central. I know South Park is split over two shorter seasons. Even 13 episodes is a short season.


Speaking of animated series on Comedy Central when does Futurama come back? Shouldn't it be this summer?


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

Michael S said:


> Speaking of animated series on Comedy Central when does Futurama come back? Shouldn't it be this summer?


June 23


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

thewebgal said:


> Lots of people feel the same - I could toss all the reality shows away and never miss a one of them. Its not that "lots of people like them", its that lots of people will watch anything you put in front of them, plus as 'unscripted shows" they are REALLY cheap to make ...


I have Tivos (and Netflix), and I *choose* to watch a decent amount of reality shows, ALONG with scripted shows. While some of the shows are even things I consider somewhat bad (I haven't fully given up on watching Big Brother during the summers), I also think some of the reality shows - The Mole (orig with Anderson Cooper), Survivor, and The Amazing Race match up there pretty darn high with the best sitcoms/dramas I've seen.


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## dilbert27 (Dec 1, 2006)

Need to move Breaking In from Cancelled to returning now that it has been picked up by Fox.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

dilbert27 said:


> Need to move Breaking In from Cancelled to returning now that it has been picked up by Fox.


Great news!


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