# MFSLive v. WinMFS



## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

Aside from ease of use, which I'm certain WinMFS wins hands down, are there any notable advantages to using WinMFS over MFSLive? I've used MFSLive or MFSTools to upgrade nearly a dozen Tivos over the years, so I am already familiar with it. I am not at all familiar with WinMFS.

I did see that TomJHansen said WinMFS took 10 1/2 hours v. MFSTools taking 2 hours (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5595114#post5595114).

I've got an 18-month old S3 (that freezes and reboots itself on occasion) that has a lot of shows recorded, so I'm leaning towards MFSTools based on familiarity and perhaps on speed also.

Has anybody else seen such huge speed differences? Anything I may be overlooking?

Thanks.


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## ilh (Dec 21, 2007)

The huge speed differences may be due to USB adapters or similar. I copied a nearly full THD disk (160GB) with WinMFS in around 30 minutes using motherboard SATA connections.

I think I heard that WinMFS has the "super size" option and that MFSLive does not, but I don't know for sure. This ups a 1TB from 136 hours to 144 hours.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

Thanks for the information! In my case, I have 4 SATA ports on my motherboard, and I'm using 2 for existing hard drives and 1 for my DVD drive. That means I must disconnect my second HD or my DVD drive to run WinMFS, since I have to connect 2 additional drives. Then of course XP will complain about the missing (whatever I connect), esp the HD as I have set some programs to use one partition for swap.

In the end, I don't know that there's enough benefit to using WinMFS vs. just disconnecting my 2 existing HDs, hooking up the Tivo drive and the blank, and booting MFSLive. Sure, I miss the "supersize", but it appears that is all.


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## spike2k5 (Feb 21, 2006)

You can use Mfslive Linux cd if you want and then turn supersize on using winmfs later.


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

*YOUR DRIVE IS FAILING* and may not last much longer, Just do it. Because you all-ready know how replace the SATA drives in the PC with the old and new TiVo drives. Go with MFSLive the fixed version of MFSTools. I fear you may be beyond either and may have to use dd_rescue in any case.

After you have the new working drive then you can explore WinMFS.


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## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

I tell ya, I used WinMFS for my last upgrade from a 500G to a 1TB and I don't regret it. That is one slick little simple to use application and best of all it's idiott proof. 

That be my $00.02


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

spike2k5 said:


> You can use Mfslive Linux cd if you want and then turn supersize on using winmfs later.


Thanks, Spike, for this tip. I may do it; however, have you ever considered the space used by the supersize could one day be needed by the Tivo (say after a software upgrade)? Do you consider supersize to be a small risk? Thanks.

I plan to upgrade tonight and I'll post back how things go.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

HomeUser said:


> *YOUR DRIVE IS FAILING* and may not last much longer, Just do it. Because you all-ready know how replace the SATA drives in the PC with the old and new TiVo drives. Go with MFSLive the fixed version of MFSTools. I fear you may be beyond either and may have to use dd_rescue in any case.
> 
> After you have the new working drive then you can explore WinMFS.


Thanks for your concern, HomeUser. My S3 has been freezing about once a week for some time now. I think it may have coincided with the arrival of 9.3. I do plan to upgrade the drive tonight. I'll run WD diagnostics on the original drive and see if anything shows up. Regards.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

spike2k5 said:


> You can use Mfslive Linux cd if you want and then turn supersize on using winmfs later.


Spike, I decided to use mfslive to do the upgrade. I'm still a bit fuzzy on the -r and -s values.

I am replacing the stock 250 GB WD with a 1 TB WDEVCS model. If you don't mind, could you review the command I'm using:

backup -qTao - /dev/sdb | restore -r 4 -s 500 -xzpi - /dev/sda

(Of course, "sdb" is the original Tivo drive, "sda" is the new 1 TB drive).

I'm presently recording much more SD than HD, but I cannot say how long that might continue.

Thanks!


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

What option do you have a question about?

This makes it really easy
MFSLive Linux Boot CD ICG (Interactive Command Generator v1.4)

answer to some of the options
MFSLive FAQ (swap)



bmgoodman said:


> backup -qTao - /dev/sdb | restore -r 4 -s 500 -xzpi - /dev/sda


backup 
-q quiet suppress all output except errors 
T Backup total length of streams instead of used length
a Backup all streams
o output
- stdout (location for output)
/dev/sdb the device to operate on

| pipe (link one command into the next)

restore 
-r 4 scale for allocation block size 4 = 32768 sectors or (16MB blocks)
-s 500 size for the swap partition (500 Meg)
-x expand (add partitions to fill the drive)
z zero out everything (not occupied)
p Optimize partition layout
i get input from
- stdin (location for input)
/dev/sda device to operate on


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

Thanks, HomeUser. I knew what the switches did, I was questioning the value "-r 4" vs. "-r 2" and "-s 500" and whether I should go with a different swap size for 1 TB. I wanted to be sure I had the latest wisdom for upgrading to 1 TB, since some of the posts I saw were from 500 GB or 750 GB upgrades.

I appreciate the information nonetheless.


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

Both answers are in the MFSLive FAQ link above.

-s 500 is perfect for the swap with a 1,000GB drive.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

HomeUser said:


> Both answers are in the MFSLive FAQ link above.
> 
> -s 500 is perfect for the swap with a 1,000GB drive.


Indeed, I see it now. Funny how I missed it the first time through. Thanks.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

HomeUser said:


> *YOUR DRIVE IS FAILING* and may not last much longer, Just do it. {snip} I fear you may be beyond either and may have to use dd_rescue in any case.
> 
> After you have the new working drive then you can explore WinMFS.


Well, you were right. My old drive failed the WD Extended Test. Fortunately, the backup|restore using MFSLive CD seemed to work just fine. I'm now enjoying 131 hours of HD capacity. 

I decided against doing the "supersize", though, out of fear that Tivo Inc might someday want that space back. I don't want to have to open the case again until *this* hard drive turns flaky.


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

Congratulations, on the successful upgrade.

If you have not destroyed the original drive yet this is a good opportunity to make that small backup image with MFSLive or WinMFS then burn the backup image file to a CD for safe keeping. The backup will contain the TiVo OS, Current settings, Wish lists , Season Passes, etc. The backup file does not save the recordings in order to keep the file relative small.


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

I have not looked into "supersize" yet not sure exactly what it does to add the extra recording space.


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## Iriskitall (May 30, 2004)

used MFSlive V1.3b
Ran "mount -t vfat /dev/sda1 /dos" no problem
Ran "backup -f 9999 -6so /dos/MBRbkp1.bak /dev/sda1
Recived the following:
Backup: /sda110: Success.
To attempt backup anyway, try again with -E. -s is implied by -E.

The drive didn't backup anything....USB stick didn't light up. 

The backup is from upgrading 2 drives to 1 and after a CD and E with a new Tivo service update to 9.3. Taking advice from Homeuser and classicat, I want to save the clean image....please tell me what I'm doing wrong...


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## Iriskitall (May 30, 2004)

Or should I try to CD and E the original two drives and then backup?
Will the backup know its two drives if I try to restore later to one drive? -- will I have problems later?
Thanks


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## Iriskitall (May 30, 2004)

Found answer to second question...2 hours of searching...yippee...now still need to know why it wont backup the one drive...


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

Iriskitall said:


> Ran "mount -t vfat /dev/sda1 /dos" no problem
> Ran "backup -f 9999 -6so /dos/MBRbkp1.bak /dev/sda1


 backup -f 9999 -6so /dos/MBRbkp1.bak /dev/sda1 depending where the TiVo drive(s) are connected you need the device not partition for a single SATA drive /dev/sdb or for 2 IDE drives /dev/hda /dev/hdb


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## Iriskitall (May 30, 2004)

HomeUser said:


> backup -f 9999 -6so /dos/MBRbkp1.bak /dev/sda1 depending where the TiVo drive(s) are connected you need the device not partition for a single SATA drive /dev/sdb or for 2 IDE drives /dev/hda /dev/hdb


Oh, I thought the second part was where it was writing to; so its actually in the front? as in ...-6so /dos....this tells it to write on the dos drive previously mounted and the second part is where the Tivo drive is (or if there are two drives--/dev/hda /dev/hdb)
How did I ever get this far??? Pretty soon I'll be dangerous..haha
Thanks again...


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## Iriskitall (May 30, 2004)

Thanks...worked like a champ!


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

The real advantage to using MFSLive vs. WinMFS is that you are in a Linux environment, which allows you to go beyond just the basic drive upgrade commands. If all you need to do is perform a drive upgrade then WinMFS is a snap to use, especially if you have an external drive enclosure or docking station for the Tivo drive. I recently purchased a Thermaltake BlacX USB SATA docking station and it made upgrading my S3 Tivo drive ridiculously easy. It created a backup image in record time and also allowed me to copy over the active kernal so I could modify it.

To summarize:

For drive upgrades, WinMFS is a clearcut winner and a must for upgrading Tivo HD drives

If you need to get under the hood and tweak things, then only MFSLive (or other MFSTools/Linux distribution boot CD) will do.


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