# Fargo - The Crocodile's Dilemma - 04/15/14 - E1



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Really enjoyed it. Bill Bob was great.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

cherry ghost said:


> Really enjoyed it. Bill Bob was great.


Too bad Halle isn't in this, too...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I really enjoyed it as well. Will be interesting to see how they expand this into a full series taking place in that one town when it appears Billy Bob's character was just passing through and will be in various other locations. 

In the credits at the end of the show, it listed Colin Hanks and Joey King. On IMDb it lists them as Gus Grimly and Greta Grimly. But I don't remember seeing those characters at all. Did I miss something, or is this one of those situations where the stars are credited due to contractual reasons even though they didn't actually appear in the show?


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Colin Hanks was the cop in Duluth towards the end. Did your recording stop early?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

cherry ghost said:


> Colin Hanks was the cop in Duluth towards the end. Did your recording stop early?


Ah, I guess I didn't recognize him in those scenes since it was dark. And we never saw Joey King, but I guess she gets credit since we heard her voice over the radio.


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

Wow. Just wow. I had very high expectations and every one of them were met.

For those who want immediate action, this had it in spades.

Billy Bob's character has to be one of the best villains we've seen in years. His soliloquy to the Duluth cop was chilling. It was like you would expect the actual Devil to speak and act.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Wow ... very well done.
And based on a true story?! Extra disturbing!
What is the body count so far, four (five including the deer)?


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

excellent....i see good reviews here! looking forward to watching this evening...


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

markymark_ctown said:


> excellent....i see good reviews here! looking forward to watching this evening...


Ditto...except I'm watching this afternoon!


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

That was excellent. And quirky.

FX does good tv.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

To me it all started with "The Shield"...


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

"217! 217!"


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## Wheens (Jan 1, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> Too bad Halle isn't in this, too...


Or Connie Britton.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Watched it last night and was really impressed. Can't say I was too sorry to see the bully or the bully wife go. 

I didn't realize it was 'watson' until after when I imbd'd it to check out names. 

I remember seeing the movie a million years ago and there were scenes that seemed familiar but man, Billy bob knocks it out of the park!


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I have no idea where the next episode will go.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

That's half the fun...


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

How about Bob Odenkirk as the cop with the queasy stomach at crime scenes? LOL!


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

getreal said:


> And based on a true story?! Extra disturbing!


The story the TV show "Fargo" is based on is as true as the story the movie "Fargo" was based on.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Wow, did I have mixed feelings.

To me, it played like a cheesy, tedious parody of Fargo.

Except when Billy Bob Thornton was onscreen. He was electrifying, and brought a palpable sense of menace and weight to the proceedings.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

getreal said:


> How about Bob Odenkirk as the cop with the queasy stomach at crime scenes? LOL!


He sure looked a lot slimmer....


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

I really really am glad I recorded it. I just watched it and loved it immensely.

I agree that Billy Bob Thornton is the standout (like there could be any doubt), but I enjoyed his clear and present malice against the background of banality quite a lot.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

trainman said:


> The story the TV show "Fargo" is based on is as true as the story the movie "Fargo" was based on.


Right. In other words, not true at all.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Wow, did I have mixed feelings.
> 
> To me, it played like a cheesy, tedious parody of Fargo.
> 
> Except when Billy Bob Thornton was onscreen. He was electrifying, and brought a palpable sense of menace and weight to the proceedings.


Completely agree. I was bored or annoyed through the entire show, except during most of his scenes.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

john4200 said:


> Completely agree. I was bored or annoyed through the entire show, except during most of his scenes.


Your real name wouldn't be "Joffrey" by any chance, would it?


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

john4200 said:


> Right. In other words, not true at all.


If you do a wikipedia on the movie Fargo you will see that it is partially based on some murders but they were not based in Minnesota. They were in Connecticut and that the movie is based in Minnesota because thats were the Coen brothers are from and they wanted to express that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fargo_(film)


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

getreal said:


> Your real name wouldn't be "Joffrey" by any chance, would it?


No, they call me St. Paul. Where do you live, by the way?


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

Loved It. Every bit of it.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

When Lester was in the hospital bed at the end and seemed to be surprised that his hands weren't cuffed, what was with the wound on his hand that caused him to quickly put his hand back beneath the blankets?


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Shotgun pellet. He was in the blast radius when the shotgun fired at the Sheriff.

That's going to be hard to explain.

To my mind, he'd have been better off claiming he saw the guy coming and tried to warn the Sheriff, got shot for his efforts, and point the police towards Billy Bob. The wound in his hand was his best alibi. Now it's going to be much harder to make a consistent story.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Epguides.com only shows five episodes in the series, but that doesn't mean they won't add more later. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Billy Bob was fantastic. The supporting cast was good and on a par with the characters in the original movie. When you've got someone like BB that gives such a great performance, the rest of the cast pales in comparison. It wasn't that they were that bad, but just that he was that good.

Loved the scene where the two brothers went outside and the older one started wailing on the "dim" one with his hockey stick. Absolutely priceless. 

:up::up::up::up::up:


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

Frigging loved it. The BBT speech to Colin Hanks was chilling. I'd have done whatever he said.

And to what mr.unnatural said, the scene at the truck depot was flat out hilarious. Basically, yeah, you and your goons don't scare me one little bit.
And then the poop-stirring phone call to son #1. :up:


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

Absolutely fantastic, my new favorite show.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Mr. Soze said:


> Frigging loved it. The BBT speech to Colin Hanks was chilling. I'd have done whatever he said.


I was first thinking Big Bang Theory speech?  Then I got it.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

And now I have this mental image of Billy Bob Thornton doing dramatic readings from Big Bang Theory...


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

betts4 said:


> I was first thinking Big Bang Theory speech?  Then I got it.


As did I...


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

mr.unnatural said:


> Epguides.com only shows five episodes in the series, but that doesn't mean they won't add more later.


It's a ten episode mini-series. Already shot and in the can. If it returns, it will be a different setup (people, etc) next time, along the lines of what True Detective has planned.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I was wondering what they were going to do with True Detective. I kind of figured that would end up being an anthology series of sorts. Good to know that Fargo will extend to a full season (in cable terms, anyway  ). Heck, I could see them building a show around Billy Bob just travelling from town to town and stirring things up wherever he goes, leaving nothing but carnage in his wake.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Bob Coxner said:


> For those who want immediate action, this had it in spades.


No it didn't. We got through half an hour and my wife found it to be too slow. While I wouldn't have called it "slow" it certainly didn't have "immediate action" -- at least not after the initial scene with Billy Bob Thornton.

I was enjoying the living heck out of it but acquiesced and turned on something else. I plan to return to it with or without her, because I really enjoyed it a lot from the 30 minutes I saw.


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

Fargo opened to great ratings. 4.1 million, 1.8 million in the 18-49 category. Those numbers will go up with delayed viewings.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/17/b...-more-that-4-million.html?hpw&rref=television

This story also notes that The Americans has been renewed for a 3rd season.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

The peeing in the gas tank scene was pretty funny too.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And now I have this mental image of Billy Bob Thornton doing dramatic readings from Big Bang Theory...


Imagine, Billy bob saying 'bazinga'.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

mr.unnatural said:


> I was wondering what they were going to do with True Detective. I kind of figured that would end up being an anthology series of sorts. Good to know that Fargo will extend to a full season (in cable terms, anyway  ). Heck, I could see them building a show around Billy Bob just travelling from town to town and stirring things up wherever he goes, leaving nothing but carnage in his wake.


There is a series of books about something similar in theory to that. Blake Couch, Jack Kilborn - really intense serial killer books.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

getreal said:


> Wow ... very well done.
> And based on a true story?! Extra disturbing!
> What is the body count so far, four (five including the deer)?


For a small town, they sure are casual about all those killin's and bodies.

Besides, Duluth is _not_ a small, hick town. Dunno what kind of radio Dad had to talk to his daughter but it wouldn't have been a police radio.
I looked at the map. Duluth is the width of the entire state of Minnesota from Fargo.



Bierboy said:


> "217! 217!"


I think she is really cute, especially in her knit cap.

How about discussing a murder investigation on the radio? It's not like bad guys have police scanners.



mr.unnatural said:


> ...Loved the scene where the two brothers went outside and the older one started wailing on the "dim" one with his hockey stick. Absolutely priceless.
> 
> :up::up::up::up::up:





cheesesteak said:


> The peeing in the gas tank scene was pretty funny too.


Mr. Mysterious loves to stir things up. I'm loving that guy.

Besides the pellet wound to trip up Lester, there are his bloody clothes in the basement, he called the motel and said, "It's me. I need your help." to the desk, and it was _his_ shotgun.

Also those were the Fargo mob guys behind Sam Da bully when Mr. BBT talked to him. They've seen him.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

I also loved this. I didn't realize, at first, that it was as long as it was so I started watching a little late and want to watch again. Agree BBT was awesome. Those bangs drove me a bit crazy, though, and not in a good way. Reminded me of Jim Carrey in one of his 'I'm a dumbass' movies.

The rest of the players really had that accent down. Just like with the movie, that makes it even more funny.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

sharkster said:


> The rest of the players really had that accent down.


That's interesting...I thought just the opposite. In the movie, the characters sounded like (slight exaggerations of) people I knew. In the show, they sounded more like people doing impressions of the people in the movie, not of people in Minnesota.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

I've never been to Minnesota, but I thought the singsong thing was actually less pronounced than in the movie.

Certainly less pronounced than the old "Bobbys World" cartoon. 

I mean, I don't recall anybody saying "Dontcha know" not even once.


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> In the show, they sounded more like people doing impressions of the people in the movie, not of people in Minnesota.


AwGeez. And here I thought they were pretty darn good.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

markp99 said:


> AwGeez. And here I thought they were pretty darn good.


You're dern tootin!

I love hearing the voice of Wild Bill Hickock.

"Fer Petessakes, Dernit, Charlie, let me go ta _heck_ on my oooown dern termzzz."


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Yes, that's how I saw it - they matched the accent used in the movie. That's why, for me anyway, it adds to the comedic value because it's obviously an exaggeration of a regional accent. It's the 'Fargo-The Movie' accent.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> No it didn't. We got through half an hour and my wife found it to be too slow. While I wouldn't have called it "slow" it certainly didn't have "immediate action" -- at least not after the initial scene with Billy Bob Thornton...


I agree....it was VERY slow starting....glacially so...but there was some good payoff.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

The first part of the show dealt with showing how pitiful Lester's existence was. Even after graduating high school he still suffered from being bullied, plus he's married to a woman who shows nothing but contempt and disappointment in everything he does. The poor guy is constantly humiliated at every turn, not to mention he's got to be the world's worst salesman. I don't see how they could have started it off any better. Sometimes things need to start off slow before they can end with a bang. It's called plot development.


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

The expression on Lester's wife's face and then the delay after taking the hammer to the head were awesome!


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

I was impressed with Lesters quick thinking when the other cops arrived. Of course his finger prints are all over the hammer. It will be interesting to see where they go next.

And how did Billy Bob get out of the basement or did he even go down the basement?


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

I loved this. Great cast, and a great start to the story.

I thought they really nailed the feel of the movie. Many characters and scenes seemed like homages to the movie, yet they're telling a different story.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

What makes you guys think the hammer and bloody clothes are still in the basement? I bet Billy Bob took that evidence away.


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

zalusky said:


> Of course his finger prints are all over the hammer.


I think they showed Lester wiping down the bloody hammer.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> No it didn't. We got through half an hour and my wife found it to be too slow. While I wouldn't have called it "slow" it certainly didn't have "immediate action" -- at least not after the initial scene with Billy Bob Thornton.
> 
> I was enjoying the living heck out of it but acquiesced and turned on something else. I plan to return to it with or without her, because I really enjoyed it a lot from the 30 minutes I saw.


I thought this episode moved quickly considering it was the first one. Most shows start slowly as they have to introduce the characters. This one had a TON going on.


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## styre (Sep 20, 2006)

I kind of wish it would have moved slower a lot of plot happened in the pilot. Also I was just beginning to look forward to seeing a couple of the characters and they were killed off so quickly.

Didn't care too much for the bullying scene. Seemed a bit too much like Biff from Back to the Future.



> No it didn't. We got through half an hour and my wife found it to be too slow . While I wouldn't have called it "slow" it certainly didn't have "immediate action" -- at least not after the initial scene with Billy Bomb Thornton.
> 
> I was enjoying the living heck out of it but acquiesced and turned on something else. I plan to return to it with or without her, because I really enjoyed it a lot from the 30 minutes I saw.


I thought this episode moved quickly considering it was the first one. Most shows start slowly as they have to introduce the characters. This one had a TON going on.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

zalusky said:


> I was impressed with Lesters quick thinking when the other cops arrived. Of course his finger prints are all over the hammer. It will be interesting to see where they go next.
> 
> And how did Billy Bob get out of the basement or did he even go down the basement?


 I was sure he went down there. I have no idea how he got out... that was definitely bizarre.



markp99 said:


> I think they showed Lester wiping down the bloody hammer.


 He did.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

madscientist said:


> I was sure he went down there. I have no idea how he got out... that was definitely bizarre.


Is there anything beyond the capabilities of a man who can escape the clutches of Angelina Jolie?


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

zalusky said:


> ...And how did Billy Bob get out of the basement or did he even go down the basement?





madscientist said:


> I was sure he went down there. I have no idea how he got out... that was definitely bizarre.
> 
> He did.


The camera panned to the black, dark shadows before the commercial break. He was in the dark space...or the evil demon can disappear at will.

Lenny might have been better off staying upstairs and saying that the bad guy got the drop on both of them after killing the wife.

What's coming on the previews is



Spoiler



Adam Goldberg as a hitman the Fargo mob hires to find out who killed Sam. In the oft-repeated preview you see him pull a gun in the snack bag on a guy robbing a store, "Sunonions?"

I can see a hitman-hitman battle and watch - Lenny takes out the mystery man in the end.


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

Bob Coxner said:


> For those who want immediate action, this had it in spades.





TAsunder said:


> it certainly didn't have "immediate action" -- at least not after the initial scene with Billy Bob Thornton.


So, the initial scene had action, but the action wasn't immediate? Were you expecting action in the commercial before the show started?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

spartanstew said:


> So, the initial scene had action, but the action wasn't immediate? Were you expecting action in the commercial before the show started?


I guess you weren't paying attention during that Honda commercial, and missed the barrel rolling across the road?


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

mr.unnatural said:


> ... When you've got someone like BB that gives such a great performance, the rest of the cast pales in comparison.


Everybody was fantastic, and Billy Bob was just as good as the rest of the cast, IMHO.



TAsunder said:


> No it didn't. We got through half an hour and my wife found it to be too slow...
> 
> I was enjoying the living heck out of it but acquiesced and turned on something else. I plan to return to it with or without her, because I really enjoyed it a lot from the 30 minutes I saw.


You sound like Lester Nygaard. <sound of the wife cracking the whip> 



sharkster said:


> ... Agree BBT was awesome. Those bangs drove me a bit crazy, though, and not in a good way. Reminded me of Jim Carrey in one of his 'I'm a dumbass' movies.
> 
> The rest of the players really had that accent down. Just like with the movie, that makes it even more funny.


LOL! I had the same thoughts about Billy Bob's hairhat/toupee. 
Wow, has Billy Bob gotten super skinny since his days on "Hearts Afire" with John Ritter!


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

I loved 'Hearts Afire'. I guess Billy Bob and J. Ritter were pretty good friends. They did a few things together.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Bang, bang!

*Lester's Ball Peen Hammer came down on her head...*


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

getreal said:


> Wow, has Billy Bob gotten super skinny since his days on "Hearts Afire" with John Ritter!


Hmmmm. Needs to get a real account?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Interesting. The pic showed for me when it was first posted, but now I'm seeing the same notice.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Wow, did I have mixed feelings.
> 
> To me, it played like a cheesy, tedious parody of Fargo.
> 
> Except when Billy Bob Thornton was onscreen.


That's how I felt.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> That's interesting...I thought just the opposite. In the movie, the characters sounded like (slight exaggerations of) people I knew. In the show, they sounded more like people doing impressions of the people in the movie, not of people in Minnesota.


I agree on this point too.
We must be the only Minnesotans here that watched it.


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

Come on guys. I didn't like the Closer at first because I thought I was being parodied. She kind of grew on me though. I really liked this TV Fargo. I didn't find the accents to be as pronounced as in the movie, which I have to say is one of my all time favorites. I've never been to your part of the country, so my opinion on dialects doesn't really mean crap, though.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

A couple minor nit picks.

We do not use the word negative to describe temps below 0 as in "negative 10 degrees" we say "10 below"

The plates on the car BBT was driving in Duluth had 8 letters and numbers plus a blank space in the middle for a total of 9 spaces. Standard issue Minnesota plates as well as vanity plates are limited to 7 characters. Standard issue plates have groups of 3 letters and 3 numbers on either side of a blank space.

Duluth is the 4th largest city in MN with nearly 90k people, not some hick town where a kid can talk to daddy on the police radio. That wouldn't even happen in Bemidji which has only 13k people.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

And while those are indeed nitpicks (I expect somebody eventually to refer to 35W as "The 35"), I think they point to what Scandia and I have been saying...the movie Fargo was clearly made by Minnesotans who love Minnesota. The series seems to have been made by Californians who love the movie Fargo.

I recognized myself and my home state in Fargo the movie. I don't recognize this show.

And I'm not saying the show sucks. Just that it doesn't ring true like the movie did. (And that BBT is fantastic in it, and nobody else is, at least not yet.)


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

scandia101 said:


> ...The plates on the car BBT was driving in Duluth had 8 letters and numbers plus a blank space in the middle for a total of 9 spaces. Standard issue Minnesota plates as well as vanity plates are limited to 7 characters. Standard issue plates have groups of 3 letters and 3 numbers on either side of a blank space....


That's a pretty common thing...they don't follow typical state plate formatting...I've seen that a lot with Illinois plates on TV and in the movies (since I live in Illinois)...


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Well Bill Bob did say it was filmed in Canada. I think maybe Calgary.


Now play nice!


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

It was mostly awful.

The cleverness and charm of the movie has been replaced by dim-witted self-satisfaction. It is Jimmy Fallon. It finds itself hilarious.

It takes a tin ear to mistake those accents as anything but parody.

Billy-Bob's character does not belong in a modern noir crime drama. His power to manipulate and destroy is that of a dark wizard. He is Saruman, or at least Wormtongue. He is silly in this context.

What happens if you threaten a Duluth cop on a dark and frozen Minnesota night? There are a few possibilities, none of which are what we saw happen. Most involve a department issued .40 s&w being brought to bear. Unless, of course, you are a bad ass Dark Jedi and can cow the weak-minded with the bad ass power of force.


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And while those are indeed nitpicks (I expect somebody eventually to refer to 35W as "The 35"), I think they point to what Scandia and I have been saying...the movie Fargo was clearly made by Minnesotans who love Minnesota. The series seems to have been made by Californians who love the movie Fargo.


This brings up an oddity that fascinates me. When I lived In SoCal, the birthplace of the freeway, you referred to THE 405, THE 5 or THE Ventura Freeway. I don't ever recall hearing anyone say THE I405, for example. Here in Texas we say "I35" or "I10" and I absolutely never hear THE 35.

Why do Californians drop the "I" while Texans insist on it? Or, at least the ones I've encountered.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Bob Coxner said:


> This brings up an oddity that fascinates me. When I lived In SoCal, the birthplace of the freeway, you referred to THE 405, THE 5 or THE Ventura Freeway. I don't ever recall hearing anyone say THE I405, for example. Here in Texas we say "I35" or "I10" and I absolutely never hear THE 35.
> 
> Why do Californians drop the "I" while Texans insist on it? Or, at least the ones I've encountered.


I've often wondered that, too. Here in the upper Midwest we also refer to the interstates at "I-whatever"...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Yeah, here it's either "I94" or just "94" (35W & 35E never get the "I"). I think it's mostly just "94."

Living in California seemed unnatural. And it was because of the "The" they use.

Yeah, that's what made living in California unnatural. It was the "The."


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Wow, I never thought about what we call the freeways before. But, thinking about it now, we just have two - one is just called '395' and the other is universally called 'i80'.

I wonder why the same rule doesn't apply to both.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

sharkster said:


> Wow, I never thought about what we call the freeways before. But, thinking about it now, we just have two - one is just called '395' and the other is universally called 'i80'.
> 
> I wonder why the same rule doesn't apply to both.


We don't call dem freeways in Chicaguh. Dere _Expressways._
And we call them by name "Da Ike, Da Kennedy, Da Damn Ryan"


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Bob Coxner said:


> This brings up an oddity that fascinates me. When I lived In SoCal, the birthplace of the freeway, you referred to THE 405, THE 5 or THE Ventura Freeway. I don't ever recall hearing anyone say THE I405, for example. Here in Texas we say "I35" or "I10" and I absolutely never hear THE 35.
> 
> Why do Californians drop the "I" while Texans insist on it? Or, at least the ones I've encountered.


Interesting. Texas is the only place I've seen IH35 listed, instead of just I-35.

Even my GPS changed how it referred to it as I drove across the state. "Stay on I-10" from Florida to Texas, then "Stay on IH-10" once I crossed the state border.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Bob Coxner said:


> This brings up an oddity that fascinates me. When I lived In SoCal, the birthplace of the freeway, you referred to THE 405, THE 5 or THE Ventura Freeway. I don't ever recall hearing anyone say THE I405, for example. Here in Texas we say "I35" or "I10" and I absolutely never hear THE 35.
> 
> Why do Californians drop the "I" while Texans insist on it? Or, at least the ones I've encountered.


Based on your avatar, I assume you've spent some time in Tucson. Don't they call it "The 10" down there? That's certainly what everyone here in the Phoenix area calls it. "The 10," "The 17," "The 202," "The 101," etc.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

I'm rewatching.

First point missed: When Mr. Mystery goes to see Sam Hess at the warehouse, Sam keeps looking to the Fargo boss behind him, who nods for Sam to back off, "I'm going to let you go now..."


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, here it's either "I94" or just "94" (35W & 35E never get the "I"). I think it's mostly just "94."


 Ditto in the northeast; it's just "95", "128", "93", "84". But we do say "I90" (or "the turnpike" or just "the pike"), "route 1", "route 9" (pronounced "root" of course ), not just "90", "1" and "9". I guess if there aren't enough syllables in the number by itself (two is not enough apparently) we add a modifier ... but never "the".


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> Based on your avatar, I assume you've spent some time in Tucson. Don't they call it "The 10" down there? That's certainly what everyone here in the Phoenix area calls it. "The 10," "The 17," "The 202," "The 101," etc.


It's been several years since I last lived in The Old Pueblo. Few Tucsonans used I10 for commuting, so I don't recall any specific name for it. Note, however, the "THE" in The Old Pueblo.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

zalusky said:


> Well Bill Bob did say it was filmed in Canada. I think maybe Calgary.


You are both correct ... Calgary and surrounding area. Filming tends to face East so as not to show the beautiful Rocky Mountains backdrop.


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

I notice on Bates Motel they sometimes slip and show snowy mountainous peaks. To my knowledge there are no mountains that big on the Oregon coast. Inland a bit, yes, but not on the coast.


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## questors (Jun 4, 2009)

sharkster said:


> Wow, I never thought about what we call the freeways before. But, thinking about it now, we just have two - one is just called '395' and the other is universally called 'i80'.
> 
> I wonder why the same rule doesn't apply to both.


395 in California and Nevada is not an Interstate Highway, hence no "I." There is an I-395 on the east coast. It is a 13 mile spur off of I-95 in DC and Virginia.


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## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

What a great show, it was like watching part 2 of the movie, I also loved the boys beating with the Hockey stick. The show was just mesmerizing.


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## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

The Bill Bob character reminded of Leland Gaunt from Needful Things.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

More from the 2nd watching: The Fargo mob is running guns, and the boss at Sam Hess's house says he called for a crew to figure out who killed him.

I don't see how Lester got the blood up at the house floor that the chief sees unless it shot that far.

Lester put his bloody clothes in an orange trash bag, so they're probably not to be found.

First seen in next week's show description: Mr. Mysterious's name is Lorne Malvo.

I was wondering where I had seen Tom Musgrave (Lester's boss) before. Dunno. Guess he looks a bit like somebody else.

Key and Peele are in the cast!


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

questors said:


> 395 in California and Nevada is not an Interstate Highway, hence no "I." There is an I-395 on the east coast. It is a 13 mile spur off of I-95 in DC and Virginia.


I just always thought that it was 'interstate' to the extent that it does go through more than one state. I believe it also goes up through Oregon and Washington.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

sharkster said:


> I just always thought that it was 'interstate' to the extent that it does go through more than one state. I believe it also goes up through Oregon and Washington.


I always thought "Interstate" just meant that it was part of the "Interstate Highway System"...

The more I think about it, I think freeways that go through the Twin Cities just get the number (94, 494, 394, 694, 35W, 35E), and those that are outstate get the I (I90, I94 towards Fargo-Moorhead, I35 north and south of the Twin Cities, anything in another state). That's what sounds natural to me, anyway.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I always thought "Interstate" just meant that it was part of the "Interstate Highway System"...
> 
> The more I think about it, I think freeways that go through the Twin Cities just get the number (94, 494, 394, 694, 35W, 35E), and those that are outstate get the I (I90, I94 towards Fargo-Moorhead, I35 north and south of the Twin Cities, anything in another state). That's what sounds natural to me, anyway.


Yeah, what you say makes more sense. I think it's the big ones, like i80, that go from West to East that are considered Interstate freeways and the ones like 395, that go from North to South are more like a highway.

Or not.  I guess they don't really use the word 'Interstate' as simply meaning penetrating more than one state. Ha! She said penetrating.

I'm looking forward to watching E01 another time, after having read this thread. It's going to be even better the second time.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Actually there are sections of I-80 that are NOT free.


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

I am not typically a fan of Billy Bob but he was the only part of the show that I really enjoyed. I am having a hard time seeing Martin Freeman in his role. I'll give it a little time.


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

I have a picture of me and a Billy Bob doppelgänger at Yellowstone a few years back. We hung out all day and everywhere we went people were staring, and a few came up to talk to us. He said it happens to him all the time. I'll have to dig out the picture. I think I've posted it here before.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I always thought "Interstate" just meant that it was part of the "Interstate Highway System"...
> 
> The more I think about it, I think freeways that go through the Twin Cities just get the number (94, 494, 394, 694, 35W, 35E), and those that are outstate get the I (I90, I94 towards Fargo-Moorhead, I35 north and south of the Twin Cities, anything in another state). That's what sounds natural to me, anyway.


I used to live in Fargo which is where I94 and I29 intersect. It's a pretty much evenly split on what people say to identify them. Some people include the "I" and some just say 29 or 94. The news outlets almost always identified them as I94 and I29. But they don't call them freeways, they are interstates. I would say that I35 before and after the split to E and W is also mixed, but with a much larger percentage saying 35 without the I.
I think part of the reason we don't use the I much, if at all, is because we generally just say "the freeway" because if you're talking about going somewhere in the twin cities area, people generally know where it is and which of the interstate highways would get you there.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Yeah, and I suspect the reason the I gets used more often the further away it is is to prevent confusion (around here, 94 is unambiguous, but 29 could just as easily be the Interstate or a highway).


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

MikeAndrews said:


> ...First seen in next week's show description: Mr. Mysterious's name is Lorne Malvo.


Which translates (sorta) to "Lone Bad Within."

Mal Spanish
Vo Slovak.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

MikeAndrews said:


> Which translates (sorta) to "Lone Bad Within."
> 
> Mal Spanish
> Vo Slovak.


And it is an anagram for "Normal Love" ... which I somehow doubt is an attribute of Mr. Malvo.


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

Fl_Gulfer said:


> The Bill Bob character reminded of Leland Gaunt from Needful Things.


I thought of Anton Chigurh (Javier Bardem) in No Country for Old Men. Another Coen Brothers masterpiece, like Fargo the movie. Of course neither one can hold a candle to The Big Lebowski, dude.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

scandia101 said:


> That's how I felt.
> 
> I agree on this point too.
> We must be the only Minnesotans here that watched it.


I'm thinking, because you are from MN and close to the accent it probably bugged you as not very authentic. I have that same reaction to hearing what is supposed to be authentic New Yawk accents when in reality they are just over-exaggerated NY accents we have heard since those 1930s gangster movies. NOBODY I knew growing up in Brooklyn or since ever had those accents.

But the accents are there for effect. Same as the NY accents. It's to make you sure that you know the setting and who the actors are trying to be. I'm fine with that.

I LOVED this episode and I just hope the rest of the series lives up to it. Knowing the actors (and the parts they are playing based on coming attraction spoilers) I am very hopeful this can live up to the pilot. It definitely had the spirit of the movie. So much so that I told my son, who's interested in watching this to go and watch the movie first so you'll get the spirit of what the show is trying to do (It's available on Netflix).


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

scandia101 said:


> A couple minor nit picks.
> 
> We do not use the word negative to describe temps below 0 as in "negative 10 degrees" we say "10 below"
> 
> ...


To me, a town of 90k is a hick town


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Bob Coxner said:


> This brings up an oddity that fascinates me. When I lived In SoCal, the birthplace of the freeway, you referred to THE 405, THE 5 or THE Ventura Freeway. I don't ever recall hearing anyone say THE I405, for example. Here in Texas we say "I35" or "I10" and I absolutely never hear THE 35.
> 
> Why do Californians drop the "I" while Texans insist on it? Or, at least the ones I've encountered.


In NJ we skip the letter totally, or add, the word "route" in front of the road. So US 22 is Route 22 or simply 22. And Interstate 287, is simply 287.

When I lived in the Phoenix area, I heard THE 17, but it was from people from SoCal. I don't recall people in San Fran referring to roads with "THE" in front of them, so maybe it's a SoCal thing.


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

OK, so who was in the trunk of the car in the opening sequence who walked away and froze? Did I miss something?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

spartanstew said:


> So, the initial scene had action, but the action wasn't immediate? Were you expecting action in the commercial before the show started?


He said it had immediate action in spades. There was one moment of action early but then it dragged for about 35-ish minutes, action-wise (though I still enjoyed it). The lull was enough to make my wife unsure if she was going to like the show. We did eventually finish and she was on board, but it is hardly accurate to say the show was non-stop action from start to finish.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

markymark_ctown said:


> OK, so who was in the trunk of the car in the opening sequence who walked away and froze? Did I miss something?


Some guy he was supposed to bring to Fargo


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

markymark_ctown said:


> OK, so who was in the trunk of the car in the opening sequence who walked away and froze? Did I miss something?


I had a suspicion that Malvo didn't just let the guy freeze, but maybe. We saw him watching the guy run. You'd think the cops would have seen the extra footprints in the snow otherwise - by the car, too, but by that time the cops had walked all over it.

I guess Malvo having the guy in his skivvies was a way to keep him from running, sorta like invisible restraints. It still hadda be cold in the unheated trunk.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Methinks we haven't seen the last of little brother Nygard's "Vera, my favorite gun." For one thing the Fargo guys are gun runners and may have had something to do with how he got it.

I'll bet we see a big showdown between Lester and Malvo and the mob with Lester bringing out the bug gun.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

madscientist said:


> Ditto in the northeast; it's just "95", "128", "93", "84". But we do say "I90" (or "the turnpike" or just "the pike"), "route 1", "route 9" (pronounced "root" of course ), not just "90", "1" and "9". I guess if there aren't enough syllables in the number by itself (two is not enough apparently) we add a modifier ... but never "the".


and for true folks that count Boston as home we'll refer to it as 128, new residents are usually stumped by that one (but it's gotten better since they put back addl 128 signs)


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

sharkster said:


> The rest of the players really had that accent down. Just like with the movie, that makes it even more funny.


The best was the prostitute at the strip club's use of the classic Fargo "Yay." That was hilarious!


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

Yeah, the sex scene so reminded me of the one from the movie. I laughed heartily.


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## Eptiger (Jan 16, 2009)

trainman said:


> The story the TV show "Fargo" is based on is as true as the story the movie "Fargo" was based on.


For the uninitiated like me (I had to Google it) - it's not really not based on a true story. I actually didn't even notice the "based on a true story" notice, I assumed it was all fictional.

Anyway, I was blown away like most others on this thread. I rushed this one to the top of my queue despite being behind on my other shows after hearing how good it was and it did not disappoint. I felt it was a little more dark than comedy, even by dark comedy standards, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It'll just be harder to convince any squeamish friends to watch it =P The hammer scene, in my opinion, was kind of haunting. I liked how it put you in a position where you felt bad for the guy and rooted for him to stand up for himself, until of course he actually murdered her =P

I direly need to go back and see the movie. It's on my list of classic films that I still need to watch.

Elton

PS Did anyone else feel reminiscent of Javier Bardem's villain in No Country for Old Men? Just the fact that BBT has the heavy presence and authority about him where he seems invincible.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Eptiger said:


> For the uninitiated like me (I had to Google it) - it's not really not based on a true story. I actually didn't even notice the "based on a true story" notice, I assumed it was all fictional.
> 
> Anyway, I was blown away like most others on this thread. I rushed this one to the top of my queue despite being behind on my other shows after hearing how good it was and it did not disappoint. I felt it was a little more dark than comedy, even by dark comedy standards, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It'll just be harder to convince any squeamish friends to watch it =P The hammer scene, in my opinion, was kind of haunting. I liked how it put you in a position where you felt bad for the guy and rooted for him to stand up for himself, until of course he actually murdered her =P
> 
> ...


 I watched Frago on FX with my buddy who hadn't seen the movie. We loved the TV pilot.

He goes to watch the TV pilot again on VoD. GF loves it.

At my urging they watch "Fargo" movie on NetFlix.
GF verdict: "It was boooooorrrrrrring....."

Me: "He was funny lookin'....ya know....funny lookin'... the little guy..."

"Yeah, that was funny."


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Excellent show!

Two nit-picks:


1. How did blood get upstairs all over the floor at Lester's house?
2. Why, after killing several people, was Billy Bob driving recklessly several towns over?


Yes, to set up the scene with the cop (which was tremendous).


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

uncdrew said:


> Excellent show!
> 
> Two nit-picks:
> 
> ...


1. The same way your clothes would drip on the floor if you came in from the rain. That was not exactly a clean murder he committed

2. Why not?


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## kar74 (Feb 13, 2005)

I LOVED the original "Fargo" movie and sort of cringed at the thought of a television series being made but thought I'd give it a shot. I didn't want to like it but really did. Billy Bob did a great job as a (deadpan) villain. I'm looking forward to where they take the series...


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> 1. The same way your clothes would drip on the floor if you came in from the rain. That was not exactly a clean murder he committed
> 
> 2. Why not?


Why not indeed. But he didn't seem in a hurry (based on talking to his "boss" earlier that day) not does he seem too reckless (others might disagree).

Perhaps a bloody footprint would have made more sense to me, but he could have had enough blood on him that he was still dripping (a lot) when he got upstairs.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Doesn't his boss think that he still has the guy and will be delivering him, alive, after his trouble is resolved?


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

zalusky said:


> ...Of course his finger prints are all over the hammer.





markp99 said:


> I think they showed Lester wiping down the bloody hammer.





madscientist said:


> He did.


Of course it has his fingerprints all over it. It's _his_ hammer. I'm no detective, but it seems to me like wiping his prints off the hammer would only make it more suspicious.

Although I guess he could claim that whoever did the killing wiped down the hammer afterwards....


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Dawghows said:


> Of course it has his fingerprints all over it. It's _his_ hammer. I'm no detective, but it seems to me like wiping his prints off the hammer would only make it more suspicious.
> 
> Although I guess he could claim that whoever did the killing wiped down the hammer afterwards....


I agree that simply his fingerprints on his hammer isn't suspicious. But there might have been splatter from the blow; his finger prints positioned in finger shaped voids in the splatter pattern -- that's suspicious. 

So it's hard to say if he made things better or worse by wiping down the hammer.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

uncdrew said:


> Perhaps a bloody footprint would have made more sense to me, but he could have had enough blood on him that he was still dripping (a lot) when he got upstairs.


Except that he took off all his bloody clothes while he was still in the basement, so the only place he really could have been dripping from would be from his head/hair, and if that were the case, it would be all over the clean clothes he's now wearing.

I think the best explanation for the splatter on the upstairs floor is simply that the force of the hammer blows sent splatter everywhere in the basement, all over the walls, ceiling, etc., and some of it made it through the open door at the top of the stairs.



TAsunder said:


> Doesn't his boss think that he still has the guy and will be delivering him, alive, after his trouble is resolved?


The boss asked if he took care of the problem, and he said he did. We don't know whether BBT was supposed to deliver the guy somewhere or just kill him, but it seems that by the guy freezing to death, that solved the problem.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Jonathan_S said:


> I agree that simply his fingerprints on his hammer isn't suspicious. But there might have been splatter from the blow; his finger prints positioned in finger shaped voids in the splatter pattern -- that's suspicious.
> 
> So it's hard to say if he made things better or worse by wiping down the hammer.


His fingerprints on the hammer, absent other fingerprints, would definitely be suspicious.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

Jonathan_S said:


> But there might have been splatter from the blow; his finger prints positioned in finger shaped voids in the splatter pattern -- that's suspicious.


I'll buy that.



eddyj said:


> His fingerprints on the hammer, absent other fingerprints, would definitely be suspicious.


I'll buy less of that. He could just say the killer was wearing gloves.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Dawghows said:


> I'll buy less of that. He could just say the killer was wearing gloves.


Although removing the blood without removing the fingerprints would have been an interesting challenge...


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

I'm not talking about removing the blood. I'm saying there would be nothing suspicious about only the owner's prints being on the hammer (as EddyJ suggested) if the killer was wearing gloves. However, if the owner' sprints were on the hammer IN the blood (as JonathanS suggests), that's a problem.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Dawghows said:


> I'm not talking about removing the blood. I'm saying there would be nothing suspicious about only the owner's prints being on the hammer (as EddyJ suggested) if the killer was wearing gloves. However, if the owner' sprints were on the hammer IN the blood (as JonathanS suggests), that's a problem.


Using gloves probably would have smeared the old prints. Having nice fresh prints would be a definite clue. I watch lots of CSI.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

I don't see how Lester brought up any blood. He dumped his bloody clothes. It had to be splatters from the basement.

I was thinking that Lester would have been better off being upstairs when the help arrived, which explains how he got shot and even if not, "OMG! HELP! I checked on the wife after he left and OH NO!"


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> He said it had immediate action in spades. There was one moment of action early but then it dragged for about 35-ish minutes, action-wise (though I still enjoyed it). The lull was enough to make my wife unsure if she was going to like the show. We did eventually finish and she was on board, *but it is hardly accurate to say the show was non-stop action from start to finish.*


Correct, that's probably why he didn't say that. You're interpreting the phrase "immediate action in spades" to mean non-stop action from start to finish. That's not what it means. It means it started off with a bang. Which it did.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think the best explanation for the splatter on the upstairs floor is simply that the force of the hammer blows sent splatter everywhere in the basement, all over the walls, ceiling, etc., and some of it made it through the open door at the top of the stairs. The boss asked if he took care of the problem, and he said he did. We don't know whether BBT was supposed to deliver the guy somewhere or just kill him, but it seems that by the guy freezing to death, that solved the problem.


I just watched the second episode, and this isn't a spoiler, but after getting a better look at the way the stairway is laid out in relation to where the blood was on the upstairs floor, I have to retract the above explanation. I don't think there's any way blood splatter gets to that place on the floor.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Except that he took off all his bloody clothes while he was still in the basement, so the only place he really could have been dripping from would be from his head/hair, and if that were the case, it would be all over the clean clothes he's now wearing.
> 
> I think the best explanation for the splatter on the upstairs floor is simply that the force of the hammer blows sent splatter everywhere in the basement, all over the walls, ceiling, etc., and some of it made it through the open door at the top of the stairs.


I think we need Dexter to sort this all out


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> I just watched the second episode, and this isn't a spoiler, but after getting a better look at the way the stairway is laid out in relation to where the blood was on the upstairs floor, I have to retract the above explanation. I don't think there's any way blood splatter gets to that place on the floor.


The chief was shot upstairs...


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The chief was shot upstairs...


The chief was shot upstairs _after_ he saw the blood upstairs and put his gun on Lester...and looked downstairs.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> I think we need Dexter to sort this all out


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## Carlucci (Jan 10, 2001)

Anyone care to explain to me what the title of this episode means? Specifically, what was the unsolvable paradox in this episode?

I had never heard this type of paradox referred to as The Crocodile Dilemma before, so thanks TV for teaching me something.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Bob Coxner said:


> This brings up an oddity that fascinates me. When I lived In SoCal, the birthplace of the freeway, you referred to THE 405, THE 5 or THE Ventura Freeway. I don't ever recall hearing anyone say THE I405, for example. Here in Texas we say "I35" or "I10" and I absolutely never hear THE 35.
> 
> Why do Californians drop the "I" while Texans insist on it? Or, at least the ones I've encountered.


Placing a "the" in front of a freeway number is not a Californian thing, it is a peculiarly _Southern_ California thing. I grew up in the Northern California, and we did no such thing. When you gave someone directions you would tell them to take "680 to 580" or some such.

I came down to SoCal for college, and it absolutely drove me nuts how everyone placed a "the" in front of the freeway. But after living here for 20+ years now, I do the same thing. I tell people to take the 10 to the 405 to the 101.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Oh. The real reason I posted in this nearly month-old thread: finally watch the Fargo pilot, and loved it. Billy Bob is super creepy. Not sure if the accents sound real or not, and frankly, don't care.


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