# Series 3 stuck in "Welcome! Powering up..." loop



## mpthompson

Hi everyone. I've have a Series 3 + Lifetime for a number of years with no custom upgrades and it's been working fine for me. However, as of yesterday, it is now stuck in a "Welcome! Powering up..." loop. 

Researching the problem I now know about the Kickstart process for testing the HDD and such. However, I simply can't get any of the Kickstart tests to run. I wait for the four lights to go out, hold the pause button on the remote and release the pause button when the single orange light appears. I then punch in the Kickstart code, say 57, the orange light immediately turns off and after about 20 seconds the Tivo reboots, but the Kickstart never runs never runs after that. The Tivo just keeps going through the "Welcome! Powering up..." loop as if I did nothing. 

I have a few questions for others that may have experienced such problems.

Is there something I'm missing about running the Kickstart tests? I've looked at multiple sources on the web and I believe I'm doing everything right.

Would a bad power supply (or capacitors on the power supply) prevent the Kickstart tests from running? I suppose the 5V output could be working allowing the Tivo to power up, but the 12V supply to the HDD could be bad which causes a reboot -- or something like that. 

Without being able to access Kickstart, I'm a bit weary of purchasing a new HDD which may or may not fix the errors I'm now experiencing.

Any suggestions on where I should start? I haven't yet cracked the case to the Tivo, but I'm fairly adept at soldering and working with electronics so measuring voltages and replacing capacitors or the HDD aren't intimidating to me.

Thank you for any suggestions.

Mike


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## weathertop

I've had this behavior occur on several Tivo's over the years, including my 2 Series 3s.

In all cases, the problem was resolved after I replaced the (dead) hard drives. I also couldn't get the kickstart codes to work.

Check out http://www.weakness.com for your best HD replacement options.


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## lillevig

mpthompson said:


> Hi everyone. I've have a Series 3 + Lifetime for a number of years with no custom upgrades and it's been working fine for me. However, as of yesterday, it is now stuck in a "Welcome! Powering up..." loop.
> 
> Researching the problem I now know about the Kickstart process for testing the HDD and such. However, I simply can't get any of the Kickstart tests to run. I wait for the four lights to go out, hold the pause button on the remote and release the pause button when the single orange light appears. I then punch in the Kickstart code, say 57, the orange light immediately turns off and after about 20 seconds the Tivo reboots, but the Kickstart never runs never runs after that. The Tivo just keeps going through the "Welcome! Powering up..." loop as if I did nothing.
> 
> I have a few questions for others that may have experienced such problems.
> 
> Is there something I'm missing about running the Kickstart tests? I've looked at multiple sources on the web and I believe I'm doing everything right.
> 
> Would a bad power supply (or capacitors on the power supply) prevent the Kickstart tests from running? I suppose the 5V output could be working allowing the Tivo to power up, but the 12V supply to the HDD could be bad which causes a reboot -- or something like that.
> 
> Without being able to access Kickstart, I'm a bit weary of purchasing a new HDD which may or may not fix the errors I'm now experiencing.
> 
> Any suggestions on where I should start? I haven't yet cracked the case to the Tivo, but I'm fairly adept at soldering and working with electronics so measuring voltages and replacing capacitors or the HDD aren't intimidating to me.
> 
> Thank you for any suggestions.
> 
> Mike


A bad power supply is like a poltergeist. It's probably the hard drive but it would be good to check the electrolytic capacitors in the power supply for obvious signs of bulging tops and/or leakage. If it comes down to replacing the hard drive, you might consider burning your own image instead of buying a higher cost pre-imaged one. There is a thread under the "Upgrades" forum where you can ask for an image specific to your box and the imaging software is a free download from MFSTools.com.


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## teasip

You have to have SATA capability however, or so they now say (I burned a 1TB HD a year or so ago with an external SATA case but I understand that this is no longer possible via USB connection to a laptop). Maybe successful then because I used FW? I don't recall.

Update: My bad. My issue had to do with removing the Intellipark software from the drive. Not the general software upgrade to a virgin disk.


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## mpthompson

OK, I'll go the route of upgrading the Hard Drive. My PC has SATA capability so hopefully it won't be that big of a deal for me to image a virgin hard drive for the Tivo.

I'm first going to try and read my existing Tivo drive from my PC, perhaps it will have some more luck than my Tivo does. If I can't do that, I guess I'll have to purchase the software that will let me create a correct Tivo image drive from scratch.

I'll check out the capacitors for any visible issues while I have the case opened and replace as needed. Fortunately I live within a short drive of Jameco and can probably purchase whatever capacitors I need from them.


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## unitron

mpthompson said:


> OK, I'll go the route of upgrading the Hard Drive. My PC has SATA capability so hopefully it won't be that big of a deal for me to image a virgin hard drive for the Tivo.
> 
> I'm first going to try and read my existing Tivo drive from my PC, perhaps it will have some more luck than my Tivo does. If I can't do that, I guess I'll have to purchase the software that will let me create a correct Tivo image drive from scratch.
> 
> I'll check out the capacitors for any visible issues while I have the case opened and replace as needed. Fortunately I live within a short drive of Jameco and can probably purchase whatever capacitors I need from them.


Read the wikipedia article on "capacitor plague" and also go to badcaps.net to learn how to spot the sometimes subtle signs of capacitor disease of the power supply.

While you've got the cover off to examine the power supply, hook the drive up to the computer and boot with a cd or floppy with the drive manufacturer's own diagnostic software and run the long test.

If that's an original S3 (TCD648250), I think it can't run a 2TB the way an S3 HD or S3 HD XL can, so you might want to grab one of those 1TB Seagates on sale at Best Buy this week, and if nothing's wrong with the drive you might want to grab one anyway, 'cause it looks like hard drive supplies and prices aren't getting back to normal till late next spring, and having a spare hard drive on hand could come in handy.

However, often an inability to kickstart indicates an inability of the TiVo to communicate with the drive or the drive no longer being recognized by the TiVo as a TiVo drive.

You might want to go to mfslive.org and familiarize yourself with the MFS Live cd and the WinMFS program. The Live cd is handy to have a copy of even if you don't own a TiVo.


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## leiff

If you have a slide remote unplug it. That caused me to freeze during boot.


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## lpwcomp

mpthompson said:


> OK, I'll go the route of upgrading the Hard Drive. My PC has SATA capability so hopefully it won't be that big of a deal for me to image a virgin hard drive for the Tivo.
> 
> I'm first going to try and read my existing Tivo drive from my PC, perhaps it will have some more luck than my Tivo does. If I can't do that, I guess I'll have to purchase the software that will let me create a correct Tivo image drive from scratch.


Using WinMFS or MFSLive I hope, not Windows Explorer.


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## mpthompson

lpwcomp said:


> Using WinMFS or MFSLive I hope, not Windows Explorer.


Yeah, I meant one of the suggested utilities rather than Windows Explorer.


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## mpthompson

Just a quick update for anyone who comes across similar problems. I pulled the original 250GB drive from the Tivo and attached it to my PC to run the Western Digital Diagnostics on it. SMART monitoring indicated no errors and the drive passed both the short and long scanning tests without finding any problems. WinMFS was able to backup the drive without any problems.

Turning my attention to the power supply I measured the 12 volt line at just under 7 volts and the 5 volt line is just under 4.7 volts. The bad 12 volt would seem to explain why the Tivo no longer can communicate with the hard drive. Also, with the case off I could hear a faint "clicking" sound coming the power supply. Closer inspection revealed a number of the capacitors are swollen so I'm now assuming the power supply is the source of my problems. 

I now have a full set of replacement capacitors for the power supply on order from Digikey. Hopefully replacing the capacitors will bring the power supply back up to specs.


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## unitron

mpthompson said:


> Just a quick update for anyone who comes across similar problems. I pulled the original 250GB drive from the Tivo and attached it to my PC to run the Western Digital Diagnostics on it. SMART monitoring indicated no errors and the drive passed both the short and long scanning tests without finding any problems. WinMFS was able to backup the drive without any problems.
> 
> Turning my attention to the power supply I measured the 12 volt line at just under 7 volts and the 5 volt line is just under 4.7 volts. The bad 12 volt would seem to explain why the Tivo no longer can communicate with the hard drive. Also, with the case off I could hear a faint "clicking" sound coming the power supply. Closer inspection revealed a number of the capacitors are swollen so I'm now assuming the power supply is the source of my problems.
> 
> I now have a full set of replacement capacitors for the power supply on order from Digikey. Hopefully replacing the capacitors will bring the power supply back up to specs.


You live near Jameco but you're going to wait for Digi-Key to ship?


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## mpthompson

Yeah. Jameco had some of the capacitors backordered so I decided to order everything from DigiKey (and a few other things I needed). Although I get two day shipping, things usually get to me overnight. Also, I was able to spec out better capacitors from DigiKey for just a little more cost.


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## mpthompson

Just a wrap up to this thread. I replaced all 15 of the electrolytic capacitors on my Tivo Series 3 power supply and the Tivo powered up without a problem. Four or five of the old capacitors were visibly swollen, but none were yet leaking. I replaced all of the capacitors just to be sure.

There wasn't a problem with the hard drive, but I went ahead and upgraded to a 1 terabyte drive since I had purchased one earlier in the week anticipating the drive would need replacment. The upgrade instructions in the other thread are terrific and the upgrade went smoothly using WinMFS.

Thank you to everyone for your help. Knowing that others had braved these types of repairs gave me encouragement to do it myself. My wife and children thought I was crazy when they saw the guts of the Tivo spilled across our kitchen table, but they are now very happy the Tivo is once again a member of the family.


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## unitron

mpthompson said:


> Just a wrap up to this thread. I replaced all 15 of the electrolytic capacitors on my Tivo Series 3 power supply and the Tivo powered up without a problem. Four or five of the old capacitors were visibly swollen, but none were yet leaking. I replaced all of the capacitors just to be sure.
> 
> There wasn't a problem with the hard drive, but I went ahead and upgraded to a 1 terabyte drive since I had purchased one earlier in the week anticipating the drive would need replacment. The upgrade instructions in the other thread are terrific and the upgrade went smoothly using WinMFS.
> 
> Thank you to everyone for your help. Knowing that others had braved these types of repairs gave me encouragement to do it myself. My wife and children thought I was crazy when they saw the guts of the Tivo spilled across our kitchen table, but they are now very happy the Tivo is once again a member of the family.


If they were swollen, that means they already were going bad even if they never actually leak.

If the original hard drive works with no problem (other than not being infinitely large capacity wise), carefully store it someplace where it won't get lost or messed with in case you ever need it to see if the new one has gone bad. Think of it as one of your diganostic tools.

If you bought a boxed 1TB drive, what's the model number on the box and what's the model number on the drive itself, and if you bought a bare drive what's the model number on the drive itself?


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## mpthompson

The hard disk drive I'm using is the Western Digital Caviar Black 1 TB Serial ATA for Desktops. The model number is WDBAAZ0010HNC-NRSN. A link to the drive on BestBuy is here. I don't know if this was the best drive for the Tivo, but my local BestBuy store was picked clean of drives and this was pretty much my only choice in the 1 TB capacity. It seems to run cool and relatively quiet on the Tivo, but it's not quite as quiet as the original drive.

I did put my old drive in the box for the new drive and labeled it I'll know what it is when I come across it three years from now.  It will be kept in the same cabinet as my Tivo so I can find it if the new drive ever goes dead.


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## unitron

mpthompson said:


> The hard disk drive I'm using is the Western Digital Caviar Black 1 TB Serial ATA for Desktops. The model number is WDBAAZ0010HNC-NRSN. A link to the drive on BestBuy is here. I don't know if this was the best drive for the Tivo, but my local BestBuy store was picked clean of drives and this was pretty much my only choice in the 1 TB capacity. It seems to run cool and relatively quiet on the Tivo, but it's not quite as quiet as the original drive.
> 
> I did put my old drive in the box for the new drive and labeled it I'll know what it is when I come across it three years from now.  It will be kept in the same cabinet as my Tivo so I can find it if the new drive ever goes dead.


That's the number on the bottom of the box, but I was hoping for the number on the top of the drive as well, since WD, among others, can't be counted on to always put the same drive in a box with the same model number on the box. This is also true of the external enclosures with drives which they sell as well.

This time last year (Black Friday sale), I got 3 1TB Caviar Blacks from Best Buy, 1 in store, one purchased online and picked up in store, and one purchased online and shipped to my house.

All 3 were the same drive as far as Best Buy and their Black Friday sale price listing were concerned, all 3 were in fact the WD1001FALS (that's the model of the actual drive, printed on the sticker on top of the drive).

The 2 that came out of the local store had WD10000LSRTL on the bottom of the box, but the one they shipped had WDBAAZ0010HNC-NRSN on the bottom.

If you have occasion to take the top off of the TiVo again anytime soon, I'd love to know what model they're putting in that box now.

Those 3 drives have been running 24/7 in a couple of S2 DT TiVos for almost a year now with no hiccups, but since the Caviar Blacks run at 7200rpm, and do get rather warm, I've got extra fans in there with them.

The Blacks also have that nice 5 year warranty.

Fortunately for me Thailand hadn't flooded at the time and the sale price was about half what they're asking now.


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## lstorey

I'm running into this problem today...nearly 3 year old S3 that is stuck on the power up screen and rebooting doesn't seem to help.

I'm going to look for the thread that was mentioned about replacing the hard drive. Is this hard to do?


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## unitron

lstorey said:


> I'm running into this problem today...nearly 3 year old S3 that is stuck on the power up screen and rebooting doesn't seem to help.
> 
> I'm going to look for the thread that was mentioned about replacing the hard drive. Is this hard to do?


It's not all that difficult. The easiest and by far most expensive way is to buy a drive that's already ready.

weaknees, who help pay to keep this site online, are a popular source.

dvrupgrade, who apparently have been absorbed by weaknees but maintain a separate site, offer a kind of "instant TiVo hard drive" cd, and, I think, drop in replacement drives also.

And there's a guy on eBay about whom nice things have been said.

First you need to establish that it is the hard drive that's at fault and not something else.

Like perhaps the power supply. Some had inferior capacitors used, which are starting to give trouble now. That's a slightly more difficult fix than hard drive replacement, but not all that hard.

What's the model number of your unit? TCD648xxx, TCD652xxx, TCD658xxx?

Are you using cable cards with it?

Go to mfslive.org and start reading up on the MFS Live cd and WinMFS.

What do you have in the way of a computer that you can open up and hook another hard drive or 2 to?

Let me know if it has a GigaByte brand motherboard and I'll tell you the extra precautions necessary with those.

Also, read

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

and then have a look at

badcaps.net

for a little further education

And go see what Torx drivers look like

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx

You'll need a #10 to open the TiVo and maybe an 8 or a 9 to remove the power supply if it's necessary to fix it.

You really should have arranged to have had this problem a couple of months ago before the floods in Thailand caused a big hard drive shortage and ran the price of them up so badly.

Oh, do you have many recordings you want to try to save?


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## mpthompson

lstorey said:


> I'm running into this problem today...nearly 3 year old S3 that is stuck on the power up screen and rebooting doesn't seem to help.
> 
> I'm going to look for the thread that was mentioned about replacing the hard drive. Is this hard to do?


As unitron, mentioned above, you will want to first check to make sure that the problem is indeed your hard drive. I was able to verify that my original hard drive was still working by taking it from the Tivo, connecting it to my PC using a SATA cable, and using the utilities from the Western Digital web site (my original Tivo hard drive was a Western Digital) to verify the drive was functioning correctly. The utility was called "WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostic Utility (DLGDIAG)." I also used WinMFS to also back up the drive at that time just in-case I messed things up while attempting to repair my Tivo.

Once I ruled out the hard drive I then examined the power supply and determined that it was no longer producing accurate voltages. I was going to order a replacement power supply, but I opted for taking a chance with replacing the electrolytic capacitors myself. Replacing the all 15 electrolytic capacitors on the power supply did indeed fix my problem and the power supply once again produced the correct voltages and my Tivo functioned again without a problem.

Once the power supply was fixed and since I had the case already opened I went ahead and updated my Tivo's 250GB hard drive to a 1TB hard drive. Following the instructions in the other thread, I found the process pretty straight forward. However, I would warn you that you will need to know how to connect SATA drives temporarily to your PC in order to perform the upgrade/replacement. This can be done by cracking open your PC case and running cables from the SATA ports on your motherboard to the hard drives or using external USB drive cases for SATA drives. If such things make you nervous, you are probably better off paying someone else to make the repairs or upgrade.


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## chadclifford

I'm having the exact same problem as you. Can you elaborate on exactly what you did to replace the capacitors? I'm not sure what you did exactly. Thanks in advance.


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## unitron

chadclifford said:


> I'm having the exact same problem as you. Can you elaborate on exactly what you did to replace the capacitors? I'm not sure what you did exactly. Thanks in advance.


Actually, replacing all of the capacitors in the power supply shouldn't be necessary as it's probably only one or two on one of the output rails (the +5 volt seems to be the most likely).

The trick is to educate yourself about how to spot the ones that have developed problems and leaked or bulged.

Look at the picture steve614 posted in this thread

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=479176

to see how subtle the difference in appearance can be, and go read the wikipedia article on "capacitor plague" and then check out badcaps.net

Once you spot the ones gone bad, assuming one or more has, it's a matter of getting the right replacements, unsoldering the bad ones and soldering in the new ones, being careful to observe proper polarity.

Run the manufacturer's diagnostic long test on your TiVo's hard drive and while you've got the TiVo opened (and unplugged!!!), examine the power supply capacitors.

You can't be sure ahead of time if a problem is the power supply or the drive or what.


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## mpthompson

chadclifford said:


> I'm having the exact same problem as you. Can you elaborate on exactly what you did to replace the capacitors? I'm not sure what you did exactly. Thanks in advance.


First, I verified that my hard drive was still working properly by connecting it to my PC and running the manufacturers diagnostics tools on the drive. After confirming the hard drive was functioning properly I turned my attention to the power supply. Measurements taken with a voltage meter indicated some of the power voltages were out of spec -- in my case, the 12 volt line that provides power to the hard drive.

Examinging the power supply PCB I did spot about three capacitors that looked suspect. Their tops were bulging into a rounded shape, rather than being flat. However, I didn't want to hassle with other capacitors going out in the future. Therefore, I opted to replace all the capacitors. I examined each capacitor on the board and ordered an exact replacement from www.digikey.com. Some of the capacitors had a white glue on them, but that can be easily chipped away with an Xacto knife.

Below is the order from DigiKey for my specific power supply:

Qty Part # Description Price
2 P12375-ND CAP ALUM 470UF 16V 20% RADIAL $1.02
1 P12340-ND CAP ALUM 1000UF 6.3V 20% RADIAL $0.51
2 P12344-ND CAP ALUM 2200UF 6.3V 20% RADIAL $1.50
4 P12735-ND CAP ALUM 3300UF 10V 20% RADIAL $4.24
1 P12369-ND CAP ALUM 2200UF 16V 20% RADIAL $1.06
1 P12384-ND CAP ALUM 2200UF 25V 20% RADIAL $1.43
1 P13462-ND CAP ALUM 2.2UF 50V 20% RADIAL $0.30
1 P11212-ND CAP ALUM 10UF 25V 20% RADIAL $0.30
1 P13464-ND CAP ALUM 47UF 50V 20% RADIAL $0.32
1 P10108-ND CAP ALUM 470UF 200V 20% SNAP $2.54
Total $13.22


You certainly should double check the capacitors on your power supply before trusting my list as there might be variations due to different model numbers or when units of the same model number were manufactured.

When I received the new capacitors I unsoldered each old one and immediately replaced it with a new capacitor -- double checking I got the values right and that the polarity was correct (the PCB is marked which makes this easy). Each new capacitor isn't exactly the same size as the old one, but the specs are the same and they all fit on the power supply fine. Also, I opted for slightly more expensive capacitors that had higher temperature ratings than cheaper ones so hopefully they'll last for more than just a few years.

Once all the capacitors were replaced, I carefully examined the power supply PCB to make sure I didn't create and shorts and I then placed it into the Tivo. It powered up just fine and I was happy with myself for fixing my Tivo for less than $20 and a few hours of time.


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## penny246

So...having same start up loop problem. Took out HD. Tested it and it is fine. Examined power supply and capacitors and they all look perfectly normal. No leaking or swelling. What next?


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## unitron

penny246 said:


> So...having same start up loop problem. Took out HD. Tested it and it is fine. Examined power supply and capacitors and they all look perfectly normal. No leaking or swelling. What next?


What's the model number of your unit? (Starts with TCD, is on the sticker on the back)

If you haven't already, look at the picture in this thread:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8895931

and then ask yourself if your caps are really absolutely perfectly flat on top.

How, specifically, did you test the hard drive?

(I don't know you or exactly what you do and do not know, or if there's a glitch in your understanding of what you know. Not trying to be insulting, just trying to cover all the bases as we attempt long distance diagnosis)

Do you happen to have a voltmeter?


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## penny246

Not insulting at all! 

I actually have a friend who owns a successful hardware/system building company because I know I have limited knowledge. I know he knows much more than I do. I am just trying to do any "leg work" I can as he is doing this as a favor. I will ask about the HD testing and voltmeter. I am sure he has a voltmeter but will ask to be sure.


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## unitron

penny246 said:


> Not insulting at all!
> 
> I actually have a friend who owns a successful hardware/system building company because I know I have limited knowledge. I know he knows much more than I do. I am just trying to do any "leg work" I can as he is doing this as a favor. I will ask about the HD testing and voltmeter. I am sure he has a voltmeter but will ask to be sure.


When you say hardware/system building, do you mean computer, or computer-ish, hardware, as opposed to hammer and nails and bathroom tile grout?


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## penny246

unitron said:


> When you say hardware/system building, do you mean computer, or computer-ish, hardware, as opposed to hammer and nails and bathroom tile grout?


LOL!! Yes computers! I like this response - gave me a vision of some guy with a plumber's crack standing over my TIVO with a big ol' sledge hammer. My Tivo is with him and he is the one who has done everything so far. I was afraid that I know just enough to really screw it up so asked for help.


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## unitron

penny246 said:


> LOL!! Yes computers! I like this response - gave me a vision of some guy with a plumber's crack standing over my TIVO with a big ol' sledge hammer. My Tivo is with him and he is the one who has done everything so far. I was afraid that I know just enough to really screw it up so asked for help.


What's the model number?

Are you sure the caps are absolutely flat?

How, exactly, did you test the drive?

Cable cards? Tuning adapter?

Using HDMI to connect to the television?

To test the power supply with voltmeter, hook the black negative ground lead to the unit chassis, well away from where the AC cord plugs in, and probe the plug on the motherboard where the power supply plugs into it.

Black wire=ground

Orange should be +3.3V

Red should be +5V

Yellow should be +12V

If you have the model with the wire (brown or gray or something like that) that goes to the front panel, it's supposed to be 8 or 9 volts I read somewhere, but if the power supply has problems it's almost certainly going to be on the 5V or 12V.

Tell him to test with the hard drive not connected and again with it connected.


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## FishTank1701

This thread has been a lifesaver, for both my series 3 and myself. After confirming that my hard drive is ok, the volt meter test reveals that I'm getting only about 6.5v on the yellow 12v line.

I suck at soldering, but the $99 replacement powersupply from weaknees is right up my alley.


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## unitron

FishTank1701 said:


> This thread has been a lifesaver, for both my series 3 and myself. After confirming that my hard drive is ok, the volt meter test reveals that I'm getting only about 6.5v on the yellow 12v line.
> 
> I suck at soldering, but the $99 replacement powersupply from weaknees is right up my alley.


Well, somebody has to keep them in business so that they can keep sponsoring this site.

But better you and your wallet than me and mine.

Although I did buy a twinbreeze bracket for mom's S2 DT from them which is working just fine.


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## gameboy2oo2

FishTank1701 said:


> This thread has been a lifesaver, for both my series 3 and myself. After confirming that my hard drive is ok, the volt meter test reveals that I'm getting only about 6.5v on the yellow 12v line.
> 
> I suck at soldering, but the $99 replacement powersupply from weaknees is right up my alley.


Is it easy to do the powersupply fix by your experience?


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## unitron

gameboy2oo2 said:


> Is it easy to do the powersupply fix by your experience?


Have you ever used a soldering iron or soldering gun?


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## gameboy2oo2

unitron said:


> Have you ever used a soldering iron or soldering gun?


Yes, I used a soldering gun before.


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## Speed Daemon

gameboy2oo2 said:


> Yes, I used a soldering gun before.


A word of warning: soldering guns typically make a LOT more heat than a pencil-style soldering iron. That kind of heat can do a lot of damage to a printed circuit board in a short period of time. To paraphrase Elmer Fudd, be vewy vewy cawful!


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## FishTank1701

gameboy2oo2 said:


> Is it easy to do the powersupply fix by your experience?


I will keep you posted on the overall power supply replacement. The new one arrives from Weakness on Friday. It is just a few screws and connectors, so it should be trivial.
My eyesight isn't what it used to be, so soldering new capacitors is too much trouble for me.


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## unitron

gameboy2oo2 said:


> Yes, I used a soldering gun before.


Then once you've identified the caps that need replacing and obtained the correct replacements, it's fairly simple. You unsolder the bad ones, and, making sure to observe polarity (the caps have a negative lead and a positive lead and you take note of which went in which hole when you remove the bad ones, and put the new ones in the same way), solder in the new ones, and clip off the excess lead. If it or they are under where the heat sink overhangs, it might take a little ingenuity to get them in place, but it's do-able.

When Wikipedia comes back online, read the article on capacitor plague, and then find the thread entitled "broken" in either the upgrade or help forum here at TCF for a very good picture of how subtle the difference in appearance can be between a good one and a bad one to help you find the bad one(s).

Probably connected between either the +12V output and ground or the +5V output and ground.


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## unitron

Speed Daemon said:


> A word of warning: soldering guns typically make a LOT more heat than a pencil-style soldering iron. That kind of heat can do a lot of damage to a printed circuit board in a short period of time. To paraphrase Elmer Fudd, be vewy vewy cawful!


The power supply PCB is fairly thick and simple, as these things go, the lands into which the capacitor leads go are fairly broad, and a gun instead of an iron would, by providing more heat, let you work a lot more quickly.

If we were talking about the motherboard, it'd be a different story. Most everything there would need a small tip iron of about 25 to 30 Watts.

And a magnifying glass.


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## FishTank1701

FishTank1701 said:


> I will keep you posted on the overall power supply replacement. The new one arrives from Weakness on Friday. It is just a few screws and connectors, so it should be trivial.
> My eyesight isn't what it used to be, so soldering new capacitors is too much trouble for me.


Just a follow-up as promised. UPS Delivered the powersupply around 2:30 PM yesterday afternoon. My Tivo was up and running well before 3, and the old powersupply was on its way back to Weakness for a $50 credit by 4. Sure, if I had better eyes and a steadier hand, I'd have saved a few bucks replacing just the bloated capacitors, but replacing the whole supply a piece of cake, and well worth the price.


----------



## unitron

FishTank1701 said:


> Just a follow-up as promised. UPS Delivered the powersupply around 2:30 PM yesterday afternoon. My Tivo was up and running well before 3, and the old powersupply was on its way back to Weakness for a $50 credit by 4. Sure, if I had better eyes and a steadier hand, I'd have saved a few bucks replacing just the bloated capacitors, but replacing the whole supply a piece of cake, and well worth the price.


Well, somebody has to keep Weaknees in business so they can keep sponsoring this site.

The perfect solution is the one that works for you.


----------



## penny246

unitron said:


> What's the model number?
> 
> Are you sure the caps are absolutely flat?
> 
> How, exactly, did you test the drive?
> 
> Cable cards? Tuning adapter?
> 
> Using HDMI to connect to the television?
> 
> To test the power supply with voltmeter, hook the black negative ground lead to the unit chassis, well away from where the AC cord plugs in, and probe the plug on the motherboard where the power supply plugs into it.
> 
> Black wire=ground
> 
> Orange should be +3.3V
> 
> Red should be +5V
> 
> Yellow should be +12V
> 
> If you have the model with the wire (brown or gray or something like that) that goes to the front panel, it's supposed to be 8 or 9 volts I read somewhere, but if the power supply has problems it's almost certainly going to be on the 5V or 12V.
> 
> Tell him to test with the hard drive not connected and again with it connected.


"Sorry for my delay in response but they were busy fulfilling a large machine request from AMD

I'm certain the HD itself is good. We took it out and attached it to our PC HD test station and ran the manufacture drive test and a full media scan/verify.

The power supply seems to be functioning OK. All the voltages measure correctly under load. There are two caps that are just starting to get a slight bulge, but I'm doubtful that they're "bad" yet."

I guess I will look into a replacement power supply. Oh it is a first gen. TIVO 3 HD with two cable cards.


----------



## unitron

penny246 said:


> "Sorry for my delay in response but they were busy fulfilling a large machine request from AMD
> 
> I'm certain the HD itself is good. We took it out and attached it to our PC HD test station and ran the manufacture drive test and a full media scan/verify.
> 
> The power supply seems to be functioning OK. All the voltages measure correctly under load. There are two caps that are just starting to get a slight bulge, but I'm doubtful that they're "bad" yet."
> 
> I guess I will look into a replacement power supply. Oh it is a first gen. TIVO 3 HD with two cable cards.


Sounds like you've got connections at work that could handle replacing the caps on the power supply (go ahead and do it now), and probably get the parts easily as well. Just make sure they understand to use Low ESR, 105 degree temp rating.

So, $10 maximum for replacement capacitors or $100 for a replacement power supply?


----------



## mattack

FishTank1701 said:


> Just a follow-up as promised. UPS Delivered the powersupply around 2:30 PM yesterday afternoon. My Tivo was up and running well before 3, and the old powersupply was on its way back to Weakness for a $50 credit by 4. Sure, if I had better eyes and a steadier hand, I'd have saved a few bucks replacing just the bloated capacitors, but replacing the whole supply a piece of cake, and well worth the price.


So what were your symptoms before? (I do see the message where you tested voltages..)

did your S3 come on at all?


----------



## FishTank1701

mattack said:


> So what were your symptoms before? (I do see the message where you tested voltages..)
> 
> did your S3 come on at all?


Stuck in a "Welcome - Powering Up..." Loop 
Unable to perform any kickstart tests
Ran six hour Western Digital test on drive, which it passed.


----------



## penny246

unitron said:


> Sounds like you've got connections at work that could handle replacing the caps on the power supply (go ahead and do it now), and probably get the parts easily as well. Just make sure they understand to use Low ESR, 105 degree temp rating.
> 
> So, $10 maximum for replacement capacitors or $100 for a replacement power supply?


Unfortunately, being capable and willing seem to be two different things. It looks like there is some sort of credit for a returned bad PS. At least it saved me the cost of first trying to replace the HD...


----------



## goodsonit

I recently had the same problem after one of my CableCard failed and I had Comcast replace it and the other (working) one with a pair of M-Cards. I worked OK for about 2 weeks and then started the reboot cycle.

My solution has been to remove one of the CableCards (top) and it then restarts OK. This does mean that I cannot use the dual record capability but at least it is working.

I might see if I can get more replacement cards and possibly revert back to the old S-Cards (single direction) since the TIVO 3 does not support dual direction or full multi-cards anyway (even though the IVO HD does).

Not a great solution but at least I'm operational again.

Now if TIVO could show the love for the original HD flagship that we all spent "large" good money on and allow it to support M-cards and possibly the new HD menus it would be appreciated.


----------



## unitron

penny246 said:


> Unfortunately, being capable and willing seem to be two different things. It looks like there is some sort of credit for a returned bad PS. At least it saved me the cost of first trying to replace the HD...


What a bunch of jerks!

Would it have killed them to tell you how to do it, where to pick up the caps, and loaned you a soldering gun?

My mom was born right after Coolidge succeeded Harding and I could walk her through it.


----------



## unitron

goodsonit said:


> I recently had the same problem after one of my CableCard failed and I had Comcast replace it and the other (working) one with a pair of M-Cards. I worked OK for about 2 weeks and then started the reboot cycle.
> 
> My solution has been to remove one of the CableCards (top) and it then restarts OK. This does mean that I cannot use the dual record capability but at least it is working.
> 
> I might see if I can get more replacement cards and possibly revert back to the old S-Cards (single direction) since the TIVO 3 does not support dual direction or full multi-cards anyway (even though the IVO HD does).
> 
> Not a great solution but at least I'm operational again.
> 
> Now if TIVO could show the love for the original HD flagship that we all spent "large" good money on and allow it to support M-cards and possibly the new HD menus it would be appreciated.


Suspect your power supply, since the extra power draw of a second card seems to be what pushes it over the edge.


----------



## wiz

Original Series 3, no upgrades. Week before last, it froze and a reboot fixed it. It froze again a couple days later, and this time it stopped on the first powering up message. I suspected the hard drive but found this thread, and looked at the caps and saw one that had a domed top. I ordered a full set from from Digikey after cross comparing mine with the list in a earlier message in this thread. I replaced only the obviously bad cap, and it still didn't boot. I put a meter on the various wires on the plug that is normally connected to the motherboard. 
Orange was about +3.3V
Red was about +5.2V
Yellow was about 7-8V instead of +12V (Meter is a cheapo so not super accurate) I assumed there must be another cap gone so replaced the remaining ones. After that I still only show 7-8 volts on the connector to the motherboard. I then tested the yellow wire that goes to the hard drive by touching it where it's soldered to the power supply board. I shows +12V. 

I'm confused and open to all suggestions and advice.

TODO: test the hard drive with the WD Diagnostics, and after a post today, try booting it without the cable cards. Will update when I have more.


----------



## unitron

wiz said:


> Original Series 3, no upgrades. Week before last, it froze and a reboot fixed it. It froze again a couple days later, and this time it stopped on the first powering up message. I suspected the hard drive but found this thread, and looked at the caps and saw one that had a domed top. I ordered a full set from from Digikey after cross comparing mine with the list in a earlier message in this thread. I replaced only the obviously bad cap, and it still didn't boot. I put a meter on the various wires on the plug that is normally connected to the motherboard.
> Orange was about +3.3V
> Red was about +5.2V
> Yellow was about 7-8V instead of +12V (Meter is a cheapo so not super accurate) I assumed there must be another cap gone so replaced the remaining ones. After that I still only show 7-8 volts on the connector to the motherboard. I then tested the yellow wire that goes to the hard drive by touching it where it's soldered to the power supply board. I shows +12V.
> 
> I'm confused and open to all suggestions and advice.
> 
> TODO: test the hard drive with the WD Diagnostics, and after a post today, try booting it without the cable cards. Will update when I have more.


If you're getting +12V at the yellow wire at the power supply, but only 7 or 8 at the yellow wire where it plugs into the motherboard, something's big time weird.

Pull the power supply, find where the yellow wire to the drive attaches and where the yellow wire to the motherboard attaches. Look at the bottom of the PS board. Those two wires should be attached to the same copper "land". If not, find something that connects those two connection points. I'm sure this thing must have only one +12V output rail.


----------



## wiz

unitron said:


> If you're getting +12V at the yellow wire at the power supply, but only 7 or 8 at the yellow wire where it plugs into the motherboard, something's big time weird.
> 
> Pull the power supply, find where the yellow wire to the drive attaches and where the yellow wire to the motherboard attaches. Look at the bottom of the PS board. Those two wires should be attached to the same copper "land". If not, find something that connects those two connection points. I'm sure this thing must have only one +12V output rail.


Apparently I'm an idiot,  and your correct, I'm getting +12V on all the yellow wires.

Turned my attention to the hard drive...I felt it when powering up and felt no vibration or clicks. I connected it to my desktop and it won't even spin up. 
Looks like I need to go over the drive replacement FAQ. Since I don't have the original drive to clone, I'm going to need an image or InstantCake.

I had purchased a 1TB drive from Staples when the Tivo first went down that I can still return. I also have a new 400gb drive, from a Staples Black Friday deal three years ago. If I put in the 400 gb drive now, can I upgrade later to a 1TB drive? If so, I many return the 1TB and wait for prices to come down again.


----------



## unitron

wiz said:


> Apparently I'm an idiot,  and your correct, I'm getting +12V on all the yellow wires.
> 
> Turned my attention to the hard drive...I felt it when powering up and felt no vibration or clicks. I connected it to my desktop and it won't even spin up.
> Looks like I need to go over the drive replacement FAQ. Since I don't have the original drive to clone, I'm going to need an image or InstantCake.
> 
> I had purchased a 1TB drive from Staples when the Tivo first went down that I can still return. I also have a new 400gb drive, from a Staples Black Friday deal three years ago. If I put in the 400 gb drive now, can I upgrade later to a 1TB drive? If so, I many return the 1TB and wait for prices to come down again.


What's the brand and model number of that 400GB?

What's the brand and model number of that 1TB? How much did you pay for it? Do you have a Best Buy around there, or anyone else who sells hard drives? (I'm not dissing Staples here)

If that 400GB is SATA and doesn't have anything on it that needs saving, boot your TiVo without a drive attached and measure voltages, then attach the 400 and measure again.

It won't get beyond the welcome screen either way, but that doesn't matter for a voltage test.

For future reference, here's your image

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8921060#post8921060


----------



## wiz

unitron said:


> What's the brand and model number of that 400GB?
> 
> What's the brand and model number of that 1TB? How much did you pay for it? Do you have a Best Buy around there, or anyone else who sells hard drives? (I'm not dissing Staples here)
> 
> If that 400GB is SATA and doesn't have anything on it that needs saving, boot your TiVo without a drive attached and measure voltages, then attach the 400 and measure again.
> 
> It won't get beyond the welcome screen either way, but that doesn't matter for a voltage test.
> 
> For future reference, here's your image
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8921060#post8921060


The 1TB is a Seagate Barracuda and was $139 but I had $45 in Staples Rewards. Best Buy was the same price but OOS.

The 400 is a WD Caviar SE SATA and is still new in the box. I checked the SN and it's no longer in warranty. 
I'll download the image tonight. 
THANKS!

--=UPDATE=----=UPDATE=----=UPDATE=----=UPDATE=----=UPDATE=----=UPDATE=--2/01 12:10 AM.

I downloaded the image and imaged the 400gb drive. The system booted up fine. After Guided Setup I realized I had forgot to do clear and delete, so it's doing that now. Thanks to all for the assistance. 
When it rains it pours, our power went out today and my SD-H400 is stuck on powering up. I've shut it down and restarted a several times. Guess I'll rip it open tomorrow.


----------



## danator

I had restart "Welcome - Powering Up..." looping issue just this week and i didn't go though the voltmeter checking but the capacitors look good. Here's the kicker, removed Cable cards and it booted right up! WTH.

Turned out i can't boot the unit with both CC units plugged in. Plugged in Card 1 (bottom), booted up and waited for Tivo to show CC slot 2 empty screen, then plugged another one in, reboot and all is well. 

Anyway, It's possible that the power unit is bad, can't supply enough juice on boot-up for both CC, just guessing.


----------



## unitron

danator said:


> I had restart "Welcome - Powering Up..." looping issue just this week and i didn't go though the voltmeter checking but the capacitors look good. Here's the kicker, removed Cable cards and it booted right up! WTH.
> 
> Turned out i can't boot the unit with both CC units plugged in. Plugged in Card 1 (bottom), booted up and waited for Tivo to show CC slot 2 empty screen, then plugged another one in, reboot and all is well.
> 
> Anyway, It's possible that the power unit is bad, can't supply enough juice on boot-up for both CC, just guessing.


Not a bad guess, actually.

Get the voltmeter out. If you see a serious change in the 12V or 5V readings when you put a cable card in after the TiVo is already running, that means your power supply can't quite cut it anymore, and most likely it's one or more bad capacitors, regardless of how good they look.


----------



## ironmike

Just want to thank you all. My TCD658000 Tivo was stuck in the 'Welcome...' loop. After reading the posts in this thread, ran diagnosis tests on hard drives, they were good. Capacitors on power supply looked OK (all flat tops), yet power supply output voltage on yellow wire was 6.5 volts or so. Power supply appears to be the culprit, so I ordered a new power supply today from weaknees. 

Tivo users helping Tivo users works! Tivo corporate support, which I have tried in the past, does not!


----------



## danator

unitron said:


> Not a bad guess, actually.
> 
> Get the voltmeter out. If you see a serious change in the 12V or 5V readings when you put a cable card in after the TiVo is already running, that means your power supply can't quite cut it anymore, and most likely it's one or more bad capacitors, regardless of how good they look.


The caps aren't looking too flat from an angle, I went ahead replaced both the 6.3V 2200uf and one 25V 2200uf caps and now it booted up with both CC in. 

Just in case anyone in Dallas area looking for Tivo s3 replacement caps, try Tanner Electronics at Carrollton. They got some Nichicon and Rubycon cheaper than online.


----------



## stile

mpthompson: Thank you.

I made the exact order as mpthompson stated. I only changed 4 capacitors as they obviously went bad but ordered all the capacitors just in case. only a few bucks...

swapped out the capacitors, screwed everything back together, had my Tivo 3 up and running in 30 min.

One thing I noticed. The solder on the board was pretty cold/hard. I started with my fine soldering iron (12 watt), didn't melt the solder. Went to another iron(15 watt), no luck. Switched to my last soldering iron (23 watts) and was successful.

I was about to buy a new Tivo but you guys saved me a ton of money.


Thanks again,

Stile


----------



## elmariachi

mpthompson said:


> ...Turning my attention to the power supply *I measured the 12 volt line at just under 7 volts and the 5 volt line is just under 4.7 volts*. The bad 12 volt would seem to explain why the Tivo no longer can communicate with the hard drive. Also, with the case off I could hear a faint "clicking" sound coming the power supply. Closer inspection revealed a number of the capacitors are swollen so I'm now assuming the power supply is the source of my problems....


My DirecTV Hughes SD-DVR40 is stuck on the grey "Welcome. Powering Up.." screen. I checked the voltage of the power supply and got 10.70 dcv from the yellow wire and 5.20 dcv from the red wire. Would this be the cause of my problem or has the hard drive bitten the dust? Several of the capicitors on the PSU are bulging (rounded tops). I'd like to get several recorded shows off this dvr before I upgrade or switch services.

Saw a couple of Tivos on Craigslist but wonder how much effort I should go to if the hard drive is fried.

Thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## unitron

elmariachi said:


> My DirecTV Hughes SD-DVR40 is stuck on the grey "Welcome. Powering Up.." screen. I checked the voltage of the power supply and got 10.70 dcv from the yellow wire and 5.20 dcv from the red wire. Would this be the cause of my problem or has the hard drive bitten the dust? Several of the capicitors on the PSU are bulging (rounded tops). I'd like to get several recorded shows off this dvr before I upgrade or switch services.
> 
> Saw a couple of Tivos on Craigslist but wonder how much effort I should go to if the hard drive is fried.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help.


yellow is supposed to be 12.0 and red is supposed to be 5.0.

It can be maybe 0.1 V higher or lower with no problems.

There might be a little trimmer potentiometer on the power supply board to make voltage level adjustments with, but if you haven't already spotted it and figured that that was what it was, you don't know enough to mess with it.

Above all, don't try to adjust the supply until and unless those bad caps are replaced, or you might let out the magic smoke.

You can replace the caps (cheap) or the power supply (expensive)

Check some local repair shops and see if they know how to replace low ESR capacitors in switching power supplies.

If you're good with a soldering iron, see if they'll sell you replacements for the bad ones. Shouldn't be more than about $2 each.

Or if you don't know which end of the soldering iron to hold see if they'll do the work for you for from $10 to $30.

Right now you probably aren't getting enough "ooomph" to spin up the hard drive.

You could maybe get a shop to do the replacement and then have them put it back in the TiVo, boot it up, and check to see if the voltage trim pot needs tweaking.

Look for a shop with a good attitude.


----------



## elmariachi

unitron said:


> yellow is supposed to be 12.0 and red is supposed to be 5.0.
> 
> It can be maybe 0.1 V higher or lower with no problems.
> 
> There might be a little trimmer potentiometer on the power supply board to make voltage level adjustments with, but if you haven't already spotted it and figured that that was what it was, you don't know enough to mess with it.
> 
> Above all, don't try to adjust the supply until and unless those bad caps are replaced, or you might let out the magic smoke.
> 
> You can replace the caps (cheap) or the power supply (expensive)
> 
> Check some local repair shops and see if they know how to replace low ESR capacitors in switching power supplies.
> 
> If you're good with a soldering iron, see if they'll sell you replacements for the bad ones. Shouldn't be more than about $2 each.
> 
> Or if you don't know which end of the soldering iron to hold see if they'll do the work for you for from $10 to $30.
> 
> Right now you probably aren't getting enough "ooomph" to spin up the hard drive.
> 
> You could maybe get a shop to do the replacement and then have them put it back in the TiVo, boot it up, and check to see if the voltage trim pot needs tweaking.
> 
> Look for a shop with a good attitude.


Thanks for the reply!!! I can pick-up a "working" unit in my area for about the same prices you quoted for parts and/or labor. I was thinking of just swapping out the PSU, getting what I need off the DVR, and then moving-on to an upgrade or switching services.

I like what i've read about upgrading the hard drive, but the more I read the more confusing it gets. I'm sure it's pretty straight forward, but their doesn't seem to be one source that has a step-by-step outline for a n00b like me.


----------



## lpwcomp

elmariachi said:


> Thanks for the reply!!! I can pick-up a "working" unit in my area for about the same prices you quoted for parts and/or labor. I was thinking of just swapping out the PSU, getting what I need off the DVR, and then moving-on to an upgrade or switching services.
> 
> I like what i've read about upgrading the hard drive, but the more I read the more confusing it gets. I'm sure it's pretty straight forward, but their doesn't seem to be one source that has a step-by-step outline for a n00b like me.


Before swapping the PSU, I would power up the "working" unit and perform the same voltage checks.


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> Before swapping the PSU, I would power up the "working" unit and perform the same voltage checks.


I KNEW there was a good reason we were keeping you around.


----------



## elmariachi

elmariachi said:


> Thanks for the reply!!! I can pick-up a "working" unit in my area for about the same prices you quoted for parts and/or labor. I was thinking of just swapping out the PSU, getting what I need off the DVR, and then moving-on to an upgrade or switching services.
> 
> I like what i've read about upgrading the hard drive, but the more I read the more confusing it gets. I'm sure it's pretty straight forward, but their doesn't seem to be one source that has a step-by-step outline for a n00b like me.


Well I picked up a "working" unit off of craigs for $10. Went and checked the voltage of the donor unit and it was at 12.07 dvc with no bulging capaitors. Swapped it over to my unit and hooked it up to the tv. After several tense minutes of waiting to see if it will get past the "Welcome" screen it does. Takes a while to do its song and dance aquiring sat signal, etc. but I am back in business watching tv...for about 20 minutes. The picture starts to get pixelated, choppy, and the remote won't do it's thing. The button on the unit does nothing as well when pressed. After a while the unit goes to a black screen and reboots only to repeat the entire process again.

I guess the HD is toast. Can any info be salvaged off the OG HD? I'm surprised the HD lasted as long as it did - almost 8yrs!!! I think I'll swap over the HD in the donor unit to at least get me back to watching tv (what problems might I encounter since my understanding is that each access card is tied to an individual unit/HD)?

Can anyone point me towards a straight forward reference for making an image of the old HD and putting in a new larger 1TB HD.

Thanks


----------



## DocNo

elmariachi said:


> Can anyone point me towards a straight forward reference for making an image of the old HD and putting in a new larger 1TB HD.


Check out the upgrade threads that reference MFSTools.

EDIT: This one: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=198444

Or this one: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784

Shoot - I'm not sure which one is the current one, it's been a while since I've done it...


----------



## unitron

elmariachi said:


> ...Can anyone point me towards a straight forward reference for making an image of the old HD and putting in a new larger 1TB HD.
> 
> Thanks


Go to

http://www.mfslive.org

and read about the MFS Live cd v1.4

and then read about WinMFS

keeping in mind that it's probably been a year or more since spike updated anything there, and that doesn't mean that some parts might be more out of date than that.

After you've read til your eyeballs fall out, come back here and say which model TiVo we're talking about and exactly what you want to do with it hard-drive-wise, including drive sizes involved, and your reading will make our advice comprehensible.


----------



## unitron

elmariachi said:


> ...
> 
> Can anyone point me towards a straight forward reference for making an image of the old HD and putting in a new larger 1TB HD.
> 
> Thanks


Forgot to mention, MFS Live supercedes MFS Tools.

and with either, there's some stuff, like -r, and -z, that aren't really necessary on newer TiVos.


----------



## mattack

Dang, how are you guys finding OLED S3s so easily? I'd like one for the PS.. (yes I realize the new PS could also go bad, but mostly I'm trying to revive it.. since I'd ALSO try to revive the DRIVE that died on me too -- it spins, but I'm guessing the controller got fried.. so I want to try to someday find the same drive on eBay, replace controller.. and hopefully restore my ~1TB of recordings.. then sell the lifetime S3 and use the proceeds for an Elite..)


----------



## George R

Just had the same thing happen to my S3. I pulled one cable card, it re-started, installed the missing cable card, all was good for 2 weeks. I had to replace the power supply, good as new.


----------



## cherry ghost

bump

Series 3 is stuck in the "powering up" loop. Ejected CableCard #2 and it booted normally, so I'm assuming it's the power supply. No experience with soldering electronics, but I'm going to give it a try. Any recommendations on a basic soldering gun/iron to do the job(preferably from Amazon)? 

I probably won't do it right away, since it seems to be working fine with one tuner, but this is the TiVo that makes me eligible for MSD and I'd like to keep it running.


----------



## unitron

cherry ghost said:


> bump
> 
> Series 3 is stuck in the "powering up" loop. Ejected CableCard #2 and it booted normally, so I'm assuming it's the power supply. No experience with soldering electronics, but I'm going to give it a try. Any recommendations on a basic soldering gun/iron to do the job(preferably from Amazon)?
> 
> I probably won't do it right away, since it seems to be working fine with one tuner, but this is the TiVo that makes me eligible for MSD and I'd like to keep it running.


A high enough wattage soldering iron will run you almost as much as

http://www.amazon.com/7200PK-75-Watt-Standard-Lightweight-Soldering/dp/B00002N5JU

I've never had my hands on that model, but this one (more watts, more money) is the classic

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00002N7S0

and should last a lifetime if you don't drop it too often or from too high up.

Apparently the included solder in these kits is now lead-free, and maybe a little hard to work with, so get one of these as well

http://www.amazon.com/Kester-Pocket-Pack-Solder-0-031/dp/B00068IJNQ

Use the gun tip to heat the area on the bottom of the power supply circuit board where the capacitor lead* is soldered, and feed in a little of that Kester solder--as it melts it helps melt the old solder.

"Rock" the cap a little to pull the lead out from the molten solder, then melt the solder on the other lead, and rock that side, and work back and forth.

Or use solder wick or a solder sucker.

Be sure to get Low-ESR, 105 degree rated replacement caps of the same uF (microFarad) rating and at least the same voltage rating, or, if necessary, the next step up, voltage wise.

When installing the new cap(s), be sure to get the polarity the same (use the careful and complete notes you made when you took out the old one).

There's usually a stripe down the side nearest the negative (-) lead on caps with both leads coming out the bottom (known as radial leads--if it's a tube with a lead coming out of each end, that's axial lead and often they're marked with a + sign at the positive end instead, but the TiVo supplies all use radial lead caps)

*pronounced leed, it's one of two "wires" coming out of the bottom of the capacitor

EDIT: The sooner you take the lid off and eyeball that supply to see if you see any bad caps, the better. They aren't going to heal themselves and if things get bad enough you're talking possible data corruption.

And when removing the supply, in addition to the #10 Torx bit screws you see inside the chassis, there's a dark colored #8 or #9 Torx bit screw that goes into the top of the AC input socket from the outside on the back panel.


----------



## cherry ghost

Thanks *unitron*, I appreciate it. I'll open it up tomorrow and take a look.


----------



## cherry ghost

looks like two bad capacitors right next to each other




























I believe this is what I need?

http://www.digikey.com/scripts/dksearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0&keywords=P12344-ND


----------



## unitron

cherry ghost said:


> looks like two bad capacitors right next to each other
> 
> SNIP
> 
> I believe this is what I need?
> 
> http://www.digikey.com/scripts/dksearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0&keywords=P12344-ND


C401 and C402, right?

Have a look at C701, a 25 Volt-er, on the other side of that heat sink, and C504 and C702 as well. If the tops aren't just as flat as flat can get, replace them as well.

The Panasonic FM series are fine for this.


----------



## cherry ghost

unitron said:


> C401 and C402, right?


I didn't notice that writing anywhere, but I'll take a closer look tomorrow.

Thanks!


----------



## unitron

cherry ghost said:


> I didn't notice that writing anywhere, but I'll take a closer look tomorrow.
> 
> Thanks!


The writing is in black and it's on the circuit board next to each component.

You may have to break away some of that white goop to see some of the numbers.

It's just glue to hold things in place during assembly and soldering.


----------



## HerronScott

Those were the 2 that were bulging on one of my S3 OLED's when the power supply failed. Do have you have a TiVo S3 OLED or TiVoHD and what's the TiVo part number on the power supply board?

Scott


----------



## cherry ghost

unitron said:


> C401 and C402, right?
> 
> Have a look at C701, a 25 Volt-er, on the other side of that heat sink, and C504 and C702 as well. If the tops aren't just as flat as flat can get, replace them as well.
> 
> The Panasonic FM series are fine for this.


C401 and the one right next to it(can't make it out). The others seem fine, but maybe I'll replace them anyway. Why those three?



HerronScott said:


> Those were the 2 that were bulging on one of my S3 OLED's when the power supply failed. Do have you have a TiVo S3 OLED or TiVoHD and what's the TiVo part number on the power supply board?
> 
> Scott


S3 OLED, TiVo PN: SPWR-00008-000 RevA3


----------



## unitron

So far on the original OLED S3, the 648, it seems equally divided between C401 and C402 as a pair, or C701, as to what shows bulging.

So far in general, on S2 and S3 power supplies, it seems to be caps on either the +5V output or the +12V output that go bad.

I mentioned the C504 because it's on the +5V line, and the C702 because it's on the +12V, although I have not personally seen any evidence of either of those 2 failing.

I have just the one recently acquired 648 supply and it seems healthy so far, so I'm going on my experiences with 2 S2 supplies and an S3 HD (652) supply, in all of which I had to replace caps, and on the reports and photos from others.


----------



## cherry ghost

Got it. Maybe I'll replace C701 along with C401 and C402.


----------



## unitron

cherry ghost said:


> Got it. Maybe I'll replace C701 along with C401 and C402.


Cheap insurance.


----------



## HerronScott

cherry ghost said:


> S3 OLED, TiVo PN: SPWR-00008-000 RevA3


These are the ones that I replaced in my S3 OLED with the same power supply.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9131293#post9131293

Scott


----------



## cherry ghost

HerronScott said:


> These are the ones that I replaced in my S3 OLED with the same power supply.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9131293#post9131293
> 
> Scott


Thanks


----------



## cherry ghost

Would this iron work in place of the gun?

http://www.amazon.com/Weller-SP23LK-25-Watt-Soldering-Iron/dp/B0009ZD2AG


----------



## unitron

cherry ghost said:


> Would this iron work in place of the gun?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Weller-SP23LK-25-Watt-Soldering-Iron/dp/B0009ZD2AG


I've had a few of that model over the years.

You know the part of the handle right behind the flare where you hold it?

Eventually you'll wish you had some sort of insulation and padding around that if you're using that iron for an extended period of time.

If you use it on the power supply board, especially the negative capacitor leads that are soldered to the relatively large ground plane (wide expanse of copper which will be dissapating the heat you're trying to apply), then you'll be holding it a long time.

If you're determined to go with a Weller Marksman iron, at least get the 40 Watt version.

http://www.amazon.com/Weller-SP40L-Marksman-Watt-Soldering/dp/B00018AR40

If you're just determined to use an iron instead of a gun, consider this de-soldering iron from Radio Shack

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062731

one of the few Radio Shack products I'm likely to say anything nice about.

If you want to get it from Amazon, here's the same thing at double the price with somebody else's name on it.

http://www.amazon.com/ECG-J-045-DS-Watt-Desoldering-Iron/dp/B00068IJSG

If it can melt solder to remove it, it can be used to flow new solder.

As previously mentioned, get some rosin core tin and lead alloy solder to melt into the old solder to help it melt (they call the rosin "flux" because it helps the molten solder "flow").

Diameter should be at least around 0.030", 0.060" would be okay, 0.090" is starting to get on the fat side.


----------



## cherry ghost

unitron said:


> If you're just determined to use an iron instead of a gun, consider this de-soldering iron from Radio Shack


I'm just thinking that an iron will be easier to use than a gun.

Thanks again for the help.


----------



## unitron

cherry ghost said:


> I'm just thinking that an iron will be easier to use than a gun.
> 
> Thanks again for the help.


A gun will deliver more heat more quickly.

If you have to get the 25Watt Marksman, get the version that includes the tip that holds an X-acto knife #11 blade, so you can use it to cut plastic as well.


----------



## cherry ghost

cherry ghost said:


> Got it. Maybe I'll replace C701 along with C401 and C402.


Finally got around to doing this today. A couple hiccups, but replaced all three and am back up and running.

Thanks for all the help!


----------



## unitron

cherry ghost said:


> Finally got around to doing this today. A couple hiccups, but replaced all three and am back up and running.
> 
> Thanks for all the help!


Better late than "never quite got around to it". 

Congrats.

Now tell us what soldering equipment you used.


----------



## cherry ghost

unitron said:


> Better late than "never quite got around to it".
> 
> Congrats.
> 
> Now tell us what soldering equipment you used.


Radio Shack

60W Soldering Iron

60/40 Rosin-Core Solder


----------



## busyba

Looks like I too have this problem now on my old S3-HD that's in the bedroom. Here are the details:

1. One night I noticed that the green light was flashing. I turned the TV on and there was no signal coming out of the TiVo and the box was unresponsive to the remote.

2. I powercycled and the box came back, but just traversing the menus was kind of slow and it appeared to occasionally freeze, as opposed to just hanging, as the background animation would occasionally stop.

3. After a while, it spontaneously rebooted and at that point was just in a reboot loop. It would say "welcome! powering up", then it would get to "Almost There!", then after about 5 minutes it would reboot again.

4. Multiple powercycles yielded the same boot loop results, even after letting the box sit unpowered for a couple of days.

5. I tried to kickstart, but according to the instructions "as the TiVo box restarts, all four LED lights on the front bezel of the box will be on at the same time", and I'm supposed to wait for them to go out. At no time were the other lights on. I even tried holding pause for the whole time, but the yellow light never came on.

6. I tried popping the second cablecard out, but not only did that not let the box boot up, it now boot loops faster, rebooting before it even gets to "Almost There".​
Maybe it's power supply, maybe it's the drive. Either way, I'm probably just going to replace the box rather than fix it... especially since upgrading to a Premiere will let me stream recordings from the living room Premiere to the new bedroom Premiere (something I couldn't do with the S3 with copy-protected recordings, which with my cable provider is all recordings except ones from broadcast channels).

Too bad this didn't happen a couple of months ago, when TiVo had a sale going. 

What I want to know is: is there is any way I can salvage the recordings currently on the S3?


----------



## unitron

busyba said:


> ...
> 
> What I want to know is: is there is any way I can salvage the recordings currently on the S3?


Without fixing the S3? I'm pretty sure not, and if that's a 652 and not a 648, then you can't move the crypto chip to move the TSN, to which those recordings are tied.


----------



## cdewitt

I had a bad pwr supply (caps bulging) - purchased a weaknees replacement, and the Welcome! error came up! So, upgraded the hard drive with the live cd, and same Welcome! error. Replaced the original drive, and same error. Looked closer, and I had forgotten to reattach the SATA to Motherboard connector. Plugged it back in, and all is in order. Recording now!


----------



## karen g.

First off, there are some really smart people on these forums. I don't understand most of what all of you are talking about! LOL My TiVo had been stuck in the Welcome screen since Wednesday (it is Saturday.) I tried the old unplugging, plugging back in several times. At one point, box didn't light up at all. Uh, oh...is it dead for good? I patiently waited and out of nowhere, display lit up again and started cycling the Welcome again. Phew. At least I knew it was trying again. I went on this forum today and read many of your posts with my head spinning (flux capacitors...what? No wonder people pay big bucks to get new ones.) I learned about the Kickstart, tried it several times, tivo never even accepted it. I read one post about the cable cards. I had nothing to lose. I ejected both cable cards. For the first time since Wednesday, the Welcome screen advanced to the Almost There screen. OMG! I waited patiently and it went to the Cable Card screen. I pushed in Card 1 and it went back to the resetting screen. Uh oh...not again. I waited patiently. It accepted it and went back to the Cable Card screen asking for Card 2. I pushed that in and the whole process started again. Eventually, it accepted both cards and is now functioning again!!! I totally thought I was about to buy a whole new tivo, but thanks to all of your posts about your experiences, you saved me lots of money. It may only be temporarily, but at least I got it back for now. Maybe I can at least catch up on my recordings before any future troubles. Seeing as all of you helped me so much, I felt it only fair to spend some time to share my experience in case it helps the next person! Thanks, everyone!!!


----------



## unitron

karen g. said:


> First off, there are some really smart people on these forums. I don't understand most of what all of you are talking about! LOL My TiVo had been stuck in the Welcome screen since Wednesday (it is Saturday.) I tried the old unplugging, plugging back in several times. At one point, box didn't light up at all. Uh, oh...is it dead for good? I patiently waited and out of nowhere, display lit up again and started cycling the Welcome again. Phew. At least I knew it was trying again. I went on this forum today and read many of your posts with my head spinning (flux capacitors...what? No wonder people pay big bucks to get new ones.) I learned about the Kickstart, tried it several times, tivo never even accepted it. I read one post about the cable cards. I had nothing to lose. I ejected both cable cards. For the first time since Wednesday, the Welcome screen advanced to the Almost There screen. OMG! I waited patiently and it went to the Cable Card screen. I pushed in Card 1 and it went back to the resetting screen. Uh oh...not again. I waited patiently. It accepted it and went back to the Cable Card screen asking for Card 2. I pushed that in and the whole process started again. Eventually, it accepted both cards and is now functioning again!!! I totally thought I was about to buy a whole new tivo, but thanks to all of your posts about your experiences, you saved me lots of money. It may only be temporarily, but at least I got it back for now. Maybe I can at least catch up on my recordings before any future troubles. Seeing as all of you helped me so much, I felt it only fair to spend some time to share my experience in case it helps the next person! Thanks, everyone!!!


It is temporary, those cable cards use power, taking them out lowered the overall power demand, especially the extra power demand at startup, when the hard drive motor needs more to get it started than it will to keep it spinning a few seconds later.

So if you had to take some of the load off of your power supply so that it could start the TiVo, including getting the hard drive going (the first welcome screen is on the motherboard, the second one that says just a few minutes is on the hard drive), that means your power supply can't really do the job any more which means it's starting to fail and is going to get worse and not better.

The good news is we're talking about replacing about $10 worth of parts.

Look on the back on the sticker where the power cord plugs in and tell us the model number that starts with TCD.

Then tell us your geographic location.


----------



## karen g.

Did I mention how smart you are? Tivo worked fine last night; caught up on the rest of 30 Rock. Today, went back to Welcome screen. Ugh. This time, I only went through the process of Cable Card 1 hoping I can at least get tonight's shows recorded. 

I am in Rhode Island. Model #: TCD648250B (at least I think that is correct; it was really hard to read the print on the sticker, so the last is either a B or an 8-hard to tell) 

You say $10, but I don't know if I can go through the whole soldering thing you are all discussing.  

Thanks for your response! 

ps: So, does that mean the hard drive is ok then?


----------



## jmbach

The hard drive is probably okay as long as it is not louder than normal. Increase noise could be a bearing issue which would increase power demand. The most likely problem is what unitron stated. If you are adverse to soldering then some people bought the capacitors and took it to an electronic repair shop to have them replaced. Other potential places would be the local high school electronic shop class or local technical college.


----------



## unitron

karen g. said:


> Did I mention how smart you are? Tivo worked fine last night; caught up on the rest of 30 Rock. Today, went back to Welcome screen. Ugh. This time, I only went through the process of Cable Card 1 hoping I can at least get tonight's shows recorded.
> 
> I am in Rhode Island. Model #: TCD648250B (at least I think that is correct; it was really hard to read the print on the sticker, so the last is either a B or an 8-hard to tell)
> 
> You say $10, but I don't know if I can go through the whole soldering thing you are all discussing.
> 
> Thanks for your response!
> 
> ps: So, does that mean the hard drive is ok then?


It is a B as in Baker, although I don't know if there are any TCD648250s out there that aren't Bs. Not everything that TiVo does makes sense to us mere mortals.

Anyway, you have the first of the Series 3 platform models, often referred to as the S3 OLED because of the Organic Light Emitting Diode display on the front (the clock and stuff), which other models don't have.

Also sometimes called the 648.

Despite the big HD on the box it came in, if you see S3 HD somewhere, it's probably someone talking about the next of the Series 3s, the TCD652160, which TiVo just called the HD.

Unlike the 652, the 648 only used one model of power supply from one subcontractor so it's possible to know in advance which capacitors probably need to be replaced.

It'll take me a day or so to plough through old posts and my notes to get you a list.

Start asking friends if anyone knows of a good TV or stereo repair shop in the area.

The hard drive is probably not the immediate problem, but replacing it while you've got the box open is not a bad idea considering it's age.

What do you have around there in the way of computers?

Ever opened up a PC before and changed out anything inside?


----------



## busyba

General question... wouldn't it be easier to replace the whole power supply than just the capacitors?

edit: oh, wait.... the capacitors aren't _on_ the power supply I guess, right?


----------



## jmbach

busyba said:


> General question... wouldn't it be easier to replace the whole power supply than just the capacitors?
> 
> edit: oh, wait.... the capacitors aren't _on_ the power supply I guess, right?


The capacitors that unitron is talking are the ones located on the power supply. Depends on how much you want to spend. You can replace the power supply or just the capacitors. Like a lot of things, expense and ease are directly proportional.


----------



## unitron

busyba said:


> General question... wouldn't it be easier to replace the whole power supply than just the capacitors?
> 
> edit: oh, wait.... the capacitors aren't _on_ the power supply I guess, right?


There are capacitors of one kind or another on both the power supply circuit board and on the motherboard, and maybe there're one or two on the front panel circuit board as well.

What capacitors do is useful in more than one kind of circuit, so they are made in a number of sizes, styles, capacitances, and voltages to which they can safely be subjected.

The ones most likely to go bad due to "capacitor plague" are the ones about as big around as your little finger that are part of the 12 Volt output and the 5 Volt output sections of the power supply, and they are on the power supply circuit board.


----------



## unitron

busyba said:


> General question... wouldn't it be easier to replace the whole power supply than just the capacitors?
> 
> edit: oh, wait.... the capacitors aren't _on_ the power supply I guess, right?


Yes it would be easier to replace the power supply, in that you have to remove the power supply circuit board from the inside of the TiVo to either replace or repair it.

But if you don't have another of the same model TiVo whose power supply you can use, then you'll have to buy a power supply somewhere, which is probably going to run you about $150 plus shipping, although you can send them the old supply (you pay shipping) for a $50 refund.

The capacitors themselves can be gotten for under $10, not counting postage.


----------



## karen g.

Again, thanks for all this great info, everyone. Tivo has been working so far with just the 1 cable card since Sunday. It has not reset since. Sorry it took a couple of days to respond. It did occur to me since then that my cousin is an electrical engineer so I will ask him if he can help me if I can figure out exactly what I need. I have a MacBook Pro and, no, have never opened anything up.  
Should I just let him open Tivo up and let him see which capacitors look bad? 
Thanks for all of your help!


----------



## unitron

karen g. said:


> Again, thanks for all this great info, everyone. Tivo has been working so far with just the 1 cable card since Sunday. It has not reset since. Sorry it took a couple of days to respond. It did occur to me since then that my cousin is an electrical engineer so I will ask him if he can help me if I can figure out exactly what I need. I have a MacBook Pro and, no, have never opened anything up.
> Should I just let him open Tivo up and let him see which capacitors look bad?
> Thanks for all of your help!


Well, perhaps his EE degree won't get the way too much. 

Tell him to bring a #10 Torx bit and a couple of smaller ones, and a voltmeter, and if he's got an oscilloscope it wouldn't hurt to check the DC outs for excessive ripple.

He should understand the need to only use low ESR, 105 degree rated replacements if you find any caps gone bad (most likely on the + 12-yellow wire, or the +5-red wire, outputs), and he should already know about "capacitor plague".


----------



## karen g.

Hopefully, he knows what you just wrote because it all went over my head!!! Hahaha! 
Thanks! I will check back in after I have had a chance to do this. So far, tivo is functioning with the 1 cable card. It will be a matter of coordinating our schedules and seeing if we can get back to 2 cards before it gets sick of the 1. Thanks again!


----------



## Teeps

karen g. said:


> Hopefully, he knows what you just wrote because it all went over my head!!! Hahaha!
> Thanks! I will check back in after I have had a chance to do this. So far, tivo is functioning with the 1 cable card. It will be a matter of coordinating our schedules and seeing if we can get back to 2 cards before it gets sick of the 1. Thanks again!


WeaKnees is in Culver City, CA. If you're in the area you could just drive over and do a power supply swap.

I have the parts and necessary skill to change the caps, too; if you are local.


----------



## karen g.

thanks, Teeps, but I am all the way across the country from you in Little Rhody. 
but thanks for the offer!


----------



## karen g.

my cousin just opened it up. a couple of the capacitors looked like they were bulging, but he thinks it may just be wise to replace the whole power supply. is weaknees the best place to get it? right now, tivo is stuck on the welcome screen again after we just reconnected everything. hoping it comes back this time.


----------



## unitron

karen g. said:


> my cousin just opened it up. a couple of the capacitors looked like they were bulging, but he thinks it may just be wise to replace the whole power supply. is weaknees the best place to get it? right now, tivo is stuck on the welcome screen again after we just reconnected everything. hoping it comes back this time.


You're talking $10 worth of capacitors versus $150 for a power supply.


----------



## Teeps

karen g. said:


> is weaknees the best place to get it?


Probably...

You could try googling the model number on the p/s to see if one is available closer to you.

Anyone that knows how to solder should be able to replace the capacitors. And, a unitron says it's only $10 for the parts, probably including shipping. Local is the better way to go...


----------



## Manos53

I am new to this forum and I hope someone can help with some ideas.
My TCD648250B got the yellow screen last week and first inclination was that drive went bad. t removed the drive and tested but couldn't even to get to spin. I went out and I bought a WD 1TB green drive and also downloaded instant cake from dvrupgrade.com. I created the new drive and I can see 16 new partitions but I when I installed back in the box it goes nowhere. Started thinking that the power supply went bad but I was able to test the power going to the hard drive and it appears to be correct at 12V and 5V. 
So now I am not sure what to do next. Is it possible that the drive is not compatible? The original drive was also a WD 250GB. I also tried puting the old drive in a zip-lock bag and put it in freezer for about half an hour, I was able to get it to run and even saw the partitions but unfortunately not long enough to copy the data from it.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks


----------



## Sevenfeet

My primary Series 3 Tivo began freezing up just before the final four was about to begin (great timing!). I replaced it with the identical model from the bedroom. Both Tivos have external drives (third party enclosures with WD 1 TB green drives) which have functioned properly for years.

As it turned out through the kickstart testing, it looks like the freeze ups were due to the external drive really close to failing. After several attempts, the Tivo now boots with the old external drive but this is probably because the drive had mapped out the bad parts to the best of its ability. It still fails just about all the major kickstart tests (Fail 4) so it looks like I'm just going to bite the bullet and replace the drive. I guess I could go through the trouble of trying to save the data, but I'm not sure how easy that is (it's been years since I've tried it with a Tivo).

The second Tivo's external drive is also in the beginning stages of problems (Fail 7) errors on a couple of tests but so far appears to be in better shape.


----------



## Teeps

Sevenfeet said:


> My primary Series 3 Tivo began freezing up just before the final four was about to begin (great timing!). I replaced it with the identical model from the bedroom. Both Tivos have external drives (third party enclosures with WD 1 TB green drives) which have functioned properly for years.
> 
> As it turned out through the kickstart testing, it looks like the freeze ups were due to the external drive really close to failing. After several attempts, the Tivo now boots with the old external drive but this is probably because the drive had mapped out the bad parts to the best of its ability. It still fails just about all the major kickstart tests (Fail 4) so it looks like I'm just going to bite the bullet and replace the drive. I guess I could go through the trouble of trying to save the data, but I'm not sure how easy that is (it's been years since I've tried it with a Tivo).
> 
> The second Tivo's external drive is also in the beginning stages of problems (Fail 7) errors on a couple of tests but so far appears to be in better shape.


Not sure what you are wanting to do here.
But google Dvr_Dude he sells 2TB internal HDD upgrades and can transfer data from the existing drives (providing they still work) to the new one.
Note:
This HDD upgrade with data transfer is not cheap.
I've had a dvr_dude 2TB drive in my S3 TCD250648 for over a year; works fine.

Also, while you have the TiVo(s) open. Check the power supply capacitors for immanent failure.


----------



## dig_duggler

I had this problem about a year ago with a lifetimed S3 and am just now getting around to it. I'm taking the cheap way out (well, the cheap way for someone without a SATA cable and any working knowledge of capacitors) and am going to buy a used S3 (I'm actually looking at a never used one for $50 on CL right now), verify it works and then swap the power supply and hard drive. Even though there is no warranty and won't last as long, it seems a bit easier and exceptionally cheaper. I'd spend at least $20 on parts to verify what is wrong (a SATA cable, something to test voltage, a soldering kit, etc). I did open up the old S3 and there is white gunk all over the power supply board, all looking like it originated from a capacitor. I haven't read enough but I'm guessing that's the leakage mentioned.

Edit: yeah, that's just adhesive after doing some research.  I'm dumb.


----------



## lpwcomp

dig_duggler said:


> I did open up the old S3 and there is white gunk all over the power supply board, all looking like it originated from a capacitor. I haven't read enough but I'm guessing that's the leakage mentioned.


Um, no. That is normal. I believe it is just glue.

I did find someone who does TiVo Series 3 PS repair for $50 which includes return shipping. Note that this is not an endorsement and I have no knowledge regarding its reliability.

Do a Google search on "TiVo HD PSU Repair Service" and look for the one that references the site that shall not be named. It was the third one down when I did that search and the "Headline" exactly matched the search.

I have a TiVo HD which I purchased in 2008. The original 160GB drive started going bad in 2011 and I replaced it with a 1TB. No problems since then.


----------



## karen g.

Sorry it took so long to update. I did get a new power supply from Weaknees and the cousin installed it. TiVO has been working just fine ever since. No more being stuck on Welcome... Thanks so much to everyone who helped me in this forum-you guys rock!


----------



## fred2

Unfortunately, I'm joining this thread.

S3 HD (the unit is inside a system and I cannot see the rear easily)

I was watching a tivo recorded program and the image froze. Then played and froze. The tivo then said powering up. It had been "powering up" for 25 minutes. When I checked, the only lights showing were for the control panel buttons at the right but the face plate was dark. So powered it off and on.

Status:

Tivo icon is lighted in the center. Two Red leds to the left and a Blue(top) and Red (bottom) to the right. I have powered off and on. Still same symptoms. I did have a esata drive attached and now powered that off. But no change.

Excuse to get the 4-channel model or dissection and resurrection? Can I transfer Lifetime?

Help and suggestions welcome.

Thanks in advance.

edited to add - over-the-air - no cable cards, and further, I guess NO 4 channel with Antenna!


----------



## jmbach

Lifetime is not transferable. I have heard some people who get TiVo to repair their units get to keep the lifetime even if TiVo replaces the motherboard. The few people who have done that posts costs north of 150. If you don't like opening up the unit then that maybe the way you want to go. 
I would open the unit and first test the hard drive and inspect the power supply. A new 2Tb hard drive can be found for less than 100. If the power supply is bad, the capacitors are usually the culprit. You can purchase excellent quality capacitors for less than 30 for the whole power supply. It is a single layer board so desoldering and soldering is easy. If you have not soldered before, there are excellent tutorials online. Watch them and practice before you work on the power supply.


----------



## fred2

Thanks for the response. 

Tivo was willing to go to a Refub Premier (he offered $80) and a transfer of lifetime for $199.

I had asked for the 4-channel but as I discovered it is not available for Antenna.

Can I test the hard disk in an enclosure and hook to computer - I don't have esata ports - usb and a firewire (I believe). I could mess with the internal hard drives (I've got 2) but that can be a pain with tight connectors and power cables in there. If I place the drives in (Win Vista 64, Home Premium), what am I looking for - what is its format? Maybe I could add board/connector for esata external?

I will also examine the power supply.


----------



## jmbach

You can pop the drives in an external enclosure or even better a dock. Then run the manufacturer diagnostic program on the drive being careful in choosing only non destructive tests.


----------



## jmbach

Download the diagnostic program from the manufacturer site. It will run under Windows. If it is reassigning any sectors it needs to be replaced even if the SMART passes.


----------



## fred2

Tomorrow mornings process will be hunt down the screwdriver and disassemble tivo. Looking for Docks online. Fry's has some duplicator docks.


----------



## jmbach

fred2 said:


> Tomorrow mornings process will be hunt down the screwdriver and disassemble tivo. Looking for Docks online. Fry's has some duplicator docks.


Don't need anything fancy. A single drive dock will do.


----------



## fred2

Okay, dissected. It appears that the drive is bad. I installed it in my Antec enclosure and while it spins up, I do hear a bit of "noise" and the usb-bong does not sound and the blue-led showing it working is not lighting up.

This is the enclosure I used for my extended tivo drive. But I just put that good drive in and while it spins up and the blue-led lights, and I heard the usb-bong, I don't see it or its contents as a drive on my Win Vista 64 bit premium. Is that due to its formatting as a slave to the tivo system? If I "safely remove" I hear the disconnect bong. Shouldn't it show up as a drive? 

Ah, using Manage, I see it showing up as Unknown 931gb and Not Initialized the space is considered Unallocated. None of that happens with the original tivo drive - did not show up in the Manage/Storage module.

Okay, but back to the 'bad' original tivo hd - Obviously, I need a new drive and I need to install whatever tivo-brains it might need. Recommendations? Buy a pre-setup one, try finding an image to install on a blank hard drive? Other?

Any additional help appreciated.

PS - I might add, that if the "power supply" is that entire board on the opposite as the hard drive, I see one larger capacitor slightly bowed/domed. Others are flat. Is this a separate issue? (yikessssssssss)

PPS: I see Instant Cake but it requires removing a drive from my pc. Frankly, while not impossible, I am not really in the mood to dissect another electronic device today! Other tools for a drive hanging off a usb port?


----------



## jmbach

fred2 said:


> Okay, dissected. It appears that the drive is bad. I installed it in my Antec enclosure and while it spins up, I do hear a bit of "noise" and the usb-bong does not sound and the blue-led showing it working is not lighting up.
> 
> This is the enclosure I used for my extended tivo drive. But I just put that good drive in and while it spins up and the blue-led lights, and I heard the usb-bong, I don't see it or its contents as a drive on my Win Vista 64 bit premium. Is that due to its formatting as a slave to the tivo system? If I "safely remove" I hear the disconnect bong. Shouldn't it show up as a drive?
> 
> Ah, using Manage, I see it showing up as Unknown 931gb and Not Initialized the space is considered Unallocated. None of that happens with the original tivo drive - did not show up in the Manage/Storage module.
> 
> Okay, but back to the 'bad' original tivo hd - Obviously, I need a new drive and I need to install whatever tivo-brains it might need. Recommendations? Buy a pre-setup one, try finding an image to install on a blank hard drive? Other?
> 
> Any additional help appreciated.
> 
> PS - I might add, that if the "power supply" is that entire board on the opposite as the hard drive, I see one larger capacitor slightly bowed/domed. Others are flat. Is this a separate issue? (yikessssssssss)
> 
> PPS: I see Instant Cake but it requires removing a drive from my pc. Frankly, while not impossible, I am not really in the mood to dissect another electronic device today! Other tools for a drive hanging off a usb port?


Okay. Both the drive and capacitor should be replaced. There is a good post on TCF about capacitors and suitable replacements. It's a 2 dollar fix. The drive I would recommend the wd20eurs as it can be had under 100 dollars. Won't need an extender then. The extender drive shows up appropriately in Windows manager. The Tivo drive should show up similar. Since it doesn't it sounds like it is toast. You have lost all your programs at this point. The links to the images you need to re image your drive are in this forum. Search for it. At this point I would use your extender drive as my main TiVo drive and image over it. Put it back together. Order the capacitor and find a good deal on a 2TB drive. (You can wait since the unit is up and running again) When you have everything in. Take it apart and repair the power supply, copy your drive to the larger drive and expand.


----------



## fred2

jmbach said:


> Okay. Both the drive and capacitor should be replaced. There is a good post on TCF about capacitors and suitable replacements. It's a 2 dollar fix. The drive I would recommend the wd20eurs as it can be had under 100 dollars. Won't need an extender then. The extender drive shows up appropriately in Windows manager. The Tivo drive should show up similar. Since it doesn't it sounds like it is toast. You have lost all your programs at this point. The links to the images you need to re image your drive are in this forum. Search for it. At this point I would use your extender drive as my main TiVo drive and image over it. Put it back together. Order the capacitor and find a good deal on a 2TB drive. (You can wait since the unit is up and running again) When you have everything in. Take it apart and repair the power supply, copy your drive to the larger drive and expand.


I really appreciate you help. Since I was doing okay with the original 250gig and the 1tetra, or 1.25tetra, I may just opt for using the Tetra and not go larger but....

Okay now for the burning image to the Tetra, I have found:

648250b.bak and am downloading.

What tool(s) do I need to place it on the drive? And I have a feeling I cannot escape removing a drive from my computer? I have also downloaded:

winmfs_beta9_3f.zip

Does the zip contain the "restoration/burning" tools or is there something else.

Sorry for all the questions - not totally inept but I've not done this process before.

Again, thanks. (and why do they place screws where it is impossible to start them back into their respective holes?!!!!? )


----------



## jmbach

fred2 said:


> I really appreciate you help. Since I was doing okay with the original 250gig and the 1tetra, or 1.25tetra, I may just opt for using the Tetra and not go larger but....
> 
> Okay now for the burning image to the Tetra, I have found:
> 
> 648250b.bak and am downloading.
> 
> What tool(s) do I need to place it on the drive? And I have a feeling I cannot escape removing a drive from my computer? I have also downloaded:
> 
> winmfs_beta9_3f.zip
> 
> Does the zip contain the "restoration/burning" tools or is there something else.
> 
> Sorry for all the questions - not totally inept but I've not done this process before.
> 
> Again, thanks. (and why do they place screws where it is impossible to start them back into their respective holes?!!!!? )


All you need is what you got already and the items you are downloading. Make sure you run WinMFS as administrator. Use your usb enclosure. In WinMFS you will select the drive and then restore. Pick the tbk you downloaded. You can keep the defaults. Some people will use a larger swap size but even on a TP4 XL at 2gb tivo only uses a 128mb swap. Would use optimized layout. That's about it. It should if I remember correctly walk you through the process.


----------



## fred2

jmbach said:


> All you need is what you got already and the items you are downloading. Make sure you run WinMFS as administrator. Use your usb enclosure. In WinMFS you will select the drive and then restore. Pick the tbk you downloaded. You can keep the defaults. Some people will use a larger swap size but even on a TP4 XL at 2gb tivo only uses a 128mb swap. Would use optimized layout. That's about it. It should if I remember correctly walk you through the process.


edited to add: I may have downloaded the wrong "backup file" Be back

I am getting "Not a valid backup file"

The file is:

648250b.bak

It is 342mb in size.

Am I suppose to do:

Tivo Drive
Boot Drive
Kernal


----------



## jmbach

Should be a tbk extension. It is a truncated backup file.
Give me an hour to get home and I'll pm you a link to a 648 tbk file if you don't find one first.


----------



## fred2

jmbach said:


> Should be a tbk extension. It is a truncated backup file.
> Give me an hour to get home and I'll pm you a link to a 648 tbk file if you don't find one first.


THANKS.

I'll take that link.

It was the wrong file but the dropbox location suggested that the downloaded file size would be 3xx mb but the file is only 102 mb. It is "restoring" now but I'm not sure it is the correct file.

I, too, will be back.

(meanwhile, I'm doing imitation tivo using my BB Playbook connected to hdmi and watching some Grimm (Grim matches my mood - well, maybe it "ain't" so bad with help).


----------



## jmbach

Sent you a PM. Give it a few minutes to finish uploading. It is a zip file so as long as you unzip it and there are no errors it should be fine. BTW after restoring the backup you will need to do a clear and delete everything and have the unit reconnect to the mothership before it is fully functional. The C&DE may take several hours so don't despair.


----------



## fred2

jmbach said:


> Sent you a PM. Give it a few minutes to finish uploading. It is a zip file so as long as you unzip it and there are no errors it should be fine. BTW after restoring the backup you will need to do a clear and delete everything and have the unit reconnect to the mothership before it is fully functional. The C&DE may take several hours so don't despair.


I am downloading your zip as we speak - just in case.

But I believe I am in business - It is loading the info now - but not without a hiccup or two. That small backup file was a partial download although Firefox did not indicate that and winmfs proceed to try loading it and stalled - had to kill it. Well, thereafter winmfs would NOT select the drive - obviously, it was bollixed up. I had to use Manage Disks to re-init it. Then things went swimmingly.

Still don't know how much space tivo thinks it has as it is loading whatever it downloaded. Only replaced 500 of the torx screws so far  .

Now to figure out why my monoprice hdmi switcher would not switch to tivo - I moved tivo directly to the hdmi output line so directly to the tv.

I'm still downloading your thoughtful zip file as a just in case measure.

(it probably helps to reattach the antenna before it does an antenna scan)


----------



## fred2

edited to add: Oh, did I need to do a C&DE which may take several hours so don't despair???

I just started that so maybe we shall see if the rest of what I wrote below is altered:
--------------------------

Well, it completed the setup but when I went to Now Playing, it said there was a hardware problem and would have to restart before I could record anything. 

Oh, oh. Error 51 even a Restart. And it is NOT recording. 


Should a tetra byte only store 35 hours of HD programming or did I neglect to change some setting?

Well, I'm getting my exercise as the tivo is downstairs and this computer is upstairs.


----------



## Toshirick

Can I get an image for a 648 Tivo S3 

Thanks!

My Hard drive crashed. Does not power up.



Should I use DVR TOOLS or WinMFS for first timer???

I appreciate any help.

I looked at the power supply and replaced the bad caps.


----------



## jmbach

fred2 said:


> edited to add: Oh, did I need to do a C&DE which may take several hours so don't despair???
> 
> I just started that so maybe we shall see if the rest of what I wrote below is altered:
> --------------------------
> 
> Well, it completed the setup but when I went to Now Playing, it said there was a hardware problem and would have to restart before I could record anything.
> 
> Oh, oh. Error 51 even a Restart. And it is NOT recording.
> 
> Should a tetra byte only store 35 hours of HD programming or did I neglect to change some setting?
> 
> Well, I'm getting my exercise as the tivo is downstairs and this computer is upstairs.


Did you do a C&DE? It will not function until you do that. Until then you get errors. You can restart until the cows come home but if you do not do a Clear and Delete Everything you will continue with the errors. 
You should get more hours on the drive. You restored it but you did not expand or supersize it. Get the drive operational first with your TiVo and then take it back to your computer and run MFSAdd in WinMFS followed by supersize.


----------



## jmbach

Toshirick said:


> Can I get an image for a 648 Tivo S3
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> My Hard drive crashed. Does not power up.
> 
> Should I use DVR TOOLS or WinMFS for first timer???
> 
> I appreciate any help.
> 
> I looked at the power supply and replaced the bad caps.


What size drive are you restoring to?


----------



## fred2

jmbach said:


> Did you do a C&DE? It will not function until you do that. Until then you get errors. You can restart until the cows come home but if you do not do a Clear and Delete Everything you will continue with the errors.
> You should get more hours on the drive. You restored it but you did not expand or supersize it. Get the drive operational first with your TiVo and then take it back to your computer and run MFSAdd in WinMFS followed by supersize.


Just a wee bit more info. Could I have accomplished the MFSAdd and Supersize when I first imaged the disk or did I have to go through the tivo setup process, Then Clear and DeleteEverything, then the tivo setup again, and finally ADD/Supersize?

Not that I want to do this again, but just wondering if there's a savings in time somewhere?

Thanks - I shall go back down and see if I've got capacity....

edited to add: ah, much better and bigger - 152 hours of HD programming capacity.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR PATIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE.


----------



## jmbach

fred2 said:


> Just a wee bit more info. Could I have accomplished the MFSAdd and Supersize when I first imaged the disk or did I have to go through the tivo setup process, Then Clear and DeleteEverything, then the tivo setup again, and finally ADD/Supersize?
> 
> Not that I want to do this again, but just wondering if there's a savings in time somewhere?
> 
> Thanks - I shall go back down and see if I've got capacity....
> 
> edited to add: ah, much better and bigger - 152 hours of HD programming capacity.
> 
> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR PATIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE.


Your welcome. You could have done the MFSAdd and Supersize right after the restore. Then install the drive, boot, C&DE and tada its ready for prime time.

You should replace that capacitor sometime soon as one bad one over time can cause others to go bad as well. If you are experiencing some blocking in your video, that could be from the bad capacitor. Even more of a reason to replace it. When you do, might want to run the manufacturer diagnostic on the drive to make sure it isn't going bad. If you already did that then ignore what I just wrote.


----------



## Toshirick

jmbach said:


> What size drive are you restoring to?


NEW 2 TB


----------



## jmbach

Toshirick said:


> NEW 2 TB


PM sent


----------



## TiVoToo

I have 2 S3 that I purchased back in 2006. Both are on monthly. One is OTA only as it has a bad CableCard ejector. The other is my spouse's dedicated TiVo. It does have CableCards. Over the years, I've upgraded the HDD in both units. Earlier this month, the spouse's S3 begin exhibiting the classic signs of HDD failure. I removed the HDD and tested it on a PC using drive manufacturer diagnostics and, as expected, it failed both the short and extended SMART. Instead of buying another HDD, I decided to use the $ toward replacing the S3 with a Premiere with Lifetime. I found a good deal online and was able to get a price match at a local store. When I called TiVo to cancel the service on the spouse's old S3, the CSR offered to upgrade it to Lifetime for $99 since I was replacing it with a Premiere. I told the CSR that the HDD in the unit was bad, but would the offer still stand if I could fix it. I was told yes.
What I had decided to do was to move the 1-year old 1TB drive from the OTA S3 to the S3 that had the bad drive, and cancel the service on the OTA S3. The last time I had upgraded the HDD on the S3, I had used WinMFS to make a backup of the image. I restored this image to the TB drive, installed into the S3, and it booted without problem. Completed the Guided Setup and put this S3 into service as my 'new' OTA S3. I called TiVo, and upgraded this S3 to Lifetime, and cancelled service on the S3 with the broken ejector. This was 2 weeks ago. Since then, the OTA S3 with Lifetime had been working without incident.
2 days ago I noticed that this OTA S3 had dropped off the network. Yesterday, I remembered to go check on it and found it to be in a reboot loop. Odd. I cycled the power, but no change. I didn't expect the HDD to have gone bad, but pulled it and ran diagnostics. As expected, it passed. I then suspected the power supply, but voltages measured good. But, what the heck, I had a spare PS in the S3 I took out of service. I swapped the PS, but it made no difference. Then I decided maybe the image got corrupted, so I re-imaged the drive using the same image I'd used 2 weeks ago. No joy. Next, I decided that even though the diagnostics show drive OK maybe something not right with it. I scrounged an old 250GB SATA drive from my boneyard, imaged it, and installed. No joy.
I have run out of ideas and need some help from the community. I'm at a complete loss as to why I can't get the S3 to boot using the same image I used 2 weeks ago. When I saved the image a couple of years ago, the unit was on monthly, and now it is on Lifetime, but AFAIK this shouldn't make a difference. It's an odd coincidence that a S3 that has run without problems for almost 7 years, suddenly won't boot within a week of being upgraded to lifetime. [The change to Lifetime was to take effect on 13MAY].

[Update] Things are getting weird. With the older 250GB HDD still installed, I disconnected the Ethernet cable from the S3 (Power, Component, and Ethernet are only connections I am using while performing diagnostics). The system now boots. If Ethernet cable is plugged in when S3 powered on, it goes into reboot loop. If cable plugged in after S3 boots, S3 emits an N11 (Network Error) as soon as it tries to connect to TiVo service. The problem is not the cable as I have problem at 2 different locations on the network which route through different cables and switches to the cable modem router. Problem appears to be with network port on the S3. We had some severe thunderstorms in the area earlier this week, but if lightening were the cause, it only affected this one network appliance in a house FULL of network appliances (TiVos, PCs, switches, routers, etc.).


----------



## fred2

TivoToo:

I don't know enough but do even the supposedly same models have the small official model numbers? In other words, when I was looking online for Images, they had so many and they all suggested looking at the official label on the rear and not counting on my tivo being generically S3 hd.


----------



## Toshirick

jmbach said:


> PM sent


I appreciate the help and info.

Thanks-Rick


----------



## TiVoToo

fred2 said:


> TivoToo:
> 
> I don't know enough but do even the supposedly same models have the small official model numbers? In other words, when I was looking online for Images, they had so many and they all suggested looking at the official label on the rear and not counting on my tivo being generically S3 hd.


I didn't need to look online for an image. I had a backup of the image on the original hard drive that came with the unit. That is what I've used in the past when upgrading the hard drives.

Latest Status: I have attempted to complete Guided Setup using POTS, assuming that there was some problem in network hardware. However, even when using phone line, I get "Call Interrupted" when attempting to connect to TiVo service. So regardless of whether I used wired or wireless Ethernet, or a phone line, the S3 will not connect to the TiVo servers. I was leaning toward the problem being a hardware issue, but now I'm not so sure.


----------



## jmbach

.Describe how far you get through the process using POTS and ethernet. 

Edit. I see you added more info to your original post. Need to think about this further. Have you tried a C&DE.


----------



## TiVoToo

jmbach said:


> .Describe how far you get through the process using POTS and ethernet.
> 
> Edit. I see you added more info to your original post. Need to think about this further. Have you tried a C&DE.


I did a C&DE first thing before Guided Setup. In desperation, I re-imaged drive again, but did NOT perform a C&DE. I bypassed the Guided Setup and just tested the connection to TiVo Service using Wired Ethernet. It worked. I then forced a connection to TiVo Service. That worked. I then did a system restart with Ethernet still attached. It booted. I repeated Guided Setup, and this time it connected to TiVo Service OK and got the initial channel setup. But, then while scanning antenna for available channels, S3 spontaneously rebooted, and went into a reboot loop. I turned it off and waited about 15 minutes. Turned it back on and it booted into Guide Setup. Random reboots make me think P/S problems, so I pulled out the multimeter again and measured the rails. 5V was good, but 12V was at 10.5, and 3.3V at 2.8. I could have sworn these measured OK when I checked before swapping P/S. I put the HDD into the other S3 and measured voltage on that P/S, and it was even worse with 5V sagging also. Maybe I didn't have HDD installed before and was measuring the rails with no load or maybe I didn't have my glasses on. To my old eyes, the caps look good, but measurements don't lie. Both P/S are bad. They are both same age with same hours, so I guess they had similar deterioration. My soldering skills suck, so I'm pondering my next move.


----------



## lpwcomp

TiVoToo said:


> My soldering skills suck, so I'm pondering my next move.


If you can't find anyone local to do the repair, you might google "tivo power supply repair" and see if any satisfactory alternatives present themselves.


----------



## TiVoToo

lpwcomp said:


> If you can't find anyone local to do the repair, you might google "tivo power supply repair" and see if any satisfactory alternatives present themselves.


Took out the big magnifying glass and examined the capacitors. 3 of them do have a slight bulge. It's the same 3 on both PS. One is C701, the other is C401 and the cap next to it. If I do the work myself, I would need to purchase a soldering iron and solder in addition to the caps, so it might be worthwhile to have someone else do it for a reasonable fee (~$50). The Weaknees option is a trifle steep. For those $, I'd just go buy another Premiere.


----------



## jmbach

Here is a link to another post about capacitors with photos. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=361244&page=53&highlight=capacitor


----------



## lpwcomp

TiVoToo said:


> If I do the work myself, I would need to purchase a soldering iron and solder in addition to the caps, so it might be worthwhile to have someone else do it for a reasonable fee (~$50). The Weaknees option is a trifle steep. For those $, I'd just go buy another Premiere.


I agree about the weaKness price. There was another option available, at least when I googled it, and it is right at your price point.. I cannot speak to the reliability of this option, only that it exists.


----------



## jmbach

Depending on the community you are in, the local technical college or high school might do the work for you. 

The local electronics (tv) shop here in my area would replace the caps for that price. 

Probably solder, soldering iron, and caps are less than 20 to 25 dollars.


----------



## Toshirick

jmbach said:


> What size drive are you restoring to?


I used an image I received and used DvrBars and it restored my new drive.

I then used MFSAdd in WinMFS then I get an error 9 zonemap.

What i'm I doing wrong.

any help is appreciated.

Rick


----------



## Toshirick

Ok I put the new restored drive back in the TiVo and tried it.

It says powering up then it goes almost there then the green screen that says the dvr has serious problems allow it to try to fix it and it might take up to three hours!

What did I do wrong?

thanks for all the help everyone


----------



## jmbach

Toshirick said:


> I used an image I received and used DvrBars and it restored my new drive.
> 
> I then used MFSAdd in WinMFS then I get an error 9 zonemap.
> 
> What i'm I doing wrong.
> 
> any help is appreciated.
> 
> Rick





Toshirick said:


> Ok I put the new restored drive back in the TiVo and tried it.
> 
> It says powering up then it goes almost there then the green screen that says the dvr has serious problems allow it to try to fix it and it might take up to three hours!
> 
> What did I do wrong?
> 
> thanks for all the help everyone


Don't think you did anything wrong. Not sure about the error. Will have to see if I can replicate. You could let it run through the fix and see what happens. If not I pm'ed you another file. If that one doesn't work then we need to evaluate your set up and process.


----------



## unitron

Toshirick said:


> Ok I put the new restored drive back in the TiVo and tried it.
> 
> It says powering up then it goes almost there then the green screen that says the dvr has serious problems allow it to try to fix it and it might take up to three hours!
> 
> What did I do wrong?
> 
> thanks for all the help everyone


Whenever you use an image from a different TiVo, even though the same model, that image expects to boot up in a TiVo with the same TiVo Service Number as the machine from which the image was taken and the new TiVo expects the hard drive to have the same TSN stored on it as the one stored on the motherboard, so it has to do some stuff (basically set everything back to square one) to resolve the situation.

Eventually it should get everything squared away and dump you at the beginning of Guided Setup.


----------



## Toshirick

It is working thanks to everyone and special thanks to jmbach for all the help and images. 

I have 2777 sd and 318 HD.

Rick


----------



## TiVoToo

jmbach said:


> Depending on the community you are in, the local technical college or high school might do the work for you.
> 
> The local electronics (tv) shop here in my area would replace the caps for that price.
> 
> Probably solder, soldering iron, and caps are less than 20 to 25 dollars.


Thanks to the encouragement of the regular contributors to this forum, I screwed up the courage to try to do it myself. Ordered the tools and parts I would need last weekend, then went out of town on a week of vacation. Packages were here when I got back home Saturday. Replaced 3 caps (C701, C401, C402) on one of the bad P/S yesterday afternoon. When I was done, my solder joints looked as good as original - so I was probably being too hard on myself regarding my skills. Installed repaired P/S back in S3 and it has been running for last 18 hours with no random reboots. For me, the hardest part was removing the old C401 and C402 caps. Trying to hold the board in place while holding the iron and putting a little leverage on the caps to pull them free required some juggling. A prehensile tail would have been helpful. I plan to repair the P/S for the other S3 this afternoon.


----------



## HerronScott

TiVoToo said:


> For me, the hardest part was removing the old C401 and C402 caps. Trying to hold the board in place while holding the iron and putting a little leverage on the caps to pull them free required some juggling. A prehensile tail would have been helpful. I plan to repair the P/S for the other S3 this afternoon.


Congratulations!

You need one of these to help remove the solder. Once the solder is pulled out then the caps are easy to remove.










$5.80 at Amazon and called a solder sucker. 

Scott


----------



## unitron

HerronScott said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> You need one of these to help remove the solder. Once the solder is pulled out then the caps are easy to remove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> $5.80 at Amazon and called a solder sucker.
> 
> Scott


One of the things at Radio Shack actually worth having is a de-soldering iron.

Looks like a soldrering iron, but has a big squeeze bub.

You heat the solder joint with the tip while holding the bulb squeezed (adding a little fresh solder to get some flux in there helps melt the old stuff) and when it liquifies you release the bulb to suck the solder away from the joint.

Without squeezing the bulb, it can serve as a soldering iron in a pinch.


----------



## HerronScott

unitron said:


> One of the things at Radio Shack actually worth having is a de-soldering iron.
> 
> Looks like a soldrering iron, but has a big squeeze bub.


Same concept but just combines the soldering iron and solder sucker into one unit.

Scott


----------



## Peter Creath

unitron said:


> To test the power supply with voltmeter, hook the black negative ground lead to the unit chassis, well away from where the AC cord plugs in, and probe the plug on the motherboard where the power supply plugs into it.
> 
> Black wire=ground
> 
> Orange should be +3.3V
> 
> Red should be +5V
> 
> Yellow should be +12V


I hate to resurrect ancient threads, but this one was very helpful. I accidentally knocked out the power from my S3 that has been running for the past 9 years, and when I plugged it back in, it was stuck in the Powering Up loop.

I've tested the (expansion) HD using WD's tools and it reported no errors after a full media scan.

So I suspect the power supply. In testing, I once unplugged & replugged it quickly. The fan didn't spin up, and instead there was a ticking. If I give it a few minutes to discharge, then it ticks once or twice and then comes on. Here are the voltages I've observed:

Without HD:
orange = 3.04V
red = 5.06V
yellow = 12.81V

With HD:
orange = 3.13V
red = 5.06V
yellow = 12.34V

Without HD, ticking power supply:
orange = 2.9-3.2V
red = 3.1-3.5V
yellow = 5-9V
(all swinging wildly)

Looking at the capacitors, it seems that C401 and C402 are bulging (though not leaking).

Do others agree that it's the power supply? I was surprised that the voltages were so close to nominal.

If I decide to replace the capacitors myself, how should I go about dislodging them from the white glue that's holding them in place? (The glue on C402 has it stuck to the adjacent coil.) (I'd be tempted to go with the Weaknees replacement, but then I have to pay for return shipping and at least one person had his go bad 7 months after replacing it.)


----------



## Teeps

Peter Creath said:


> *Do others agree that it's the power supply?
> 
> **If I decide to replace the capacitors myself, how should I go about dislodging them from the white glue that's holding them in place?
> (The glue on C402 has it stuck to the adjacent coil.)


* 99.9% yes.

** Gently but firmly push the capacitor away from the coil. Mine were pretty stuck too, but with a little force they separate.

There are some good youtube videos about replacing capacitors.
One guy had a method of bending the caps ever so slightly back and forth until the wire fatigue failed.
At that point melting the solder and extracting the wire was easy... wish I would have seen his technique before I replaced mine.

Replace them all, not just the bulging ones.


----------



## timhbtr53

Peter Creath said:


> I hate to resurrect ancient threads, but this one was very helpful. I accidentally knocked out the power from my S3 that has been running for the past 9 years, and when I plugged it back in, it was stuck in the Powering Up loop.
> _____________________________________________________________
> 
> If you getting ticking you need to recap BAD. It's not good to run the supply without a load but just unplugging the hard drive you should not be getting ticking. It's only like 9 caps if would like I can post a link to mouser with the caps you will need. With all the caps and shipping it's about 16 bucks. Very easy to do if you know how to solder even not to bad if your learning. Just remember the hash marks on the board is your ground side of the cap. I have some pictures and a text file with the cap numbers, just let me know and I will put them out for you. But do me a big favor when you do this job PLEASE REMOVE THE POWER CORD FROM THE ROOM. It's not worth your life....


----------



## Peter Creath

Thanks, all, for the quick feedback. I hadn't considered replacing all of them, so thanks for the tip!

I found this list of capacitor part numbers from Digikey. Is that all of them? Were there multiple versions of the power supply, or can I just go from that list?

(Any reason to prefer Mouser over Digikey?)

Are those good quality capacitors? (I know how to choose capacitance and voltage, but I don't know what else makes a "good" capacitor or what other characteristics I need to match -- diameter presumably?)

Oh, and how long do I need to wait for the power supply to discharge before I start attacking it with a soldering iron?


----------



## HerronScott

What model TiVo do you have S3 OLED or S3 HD? Also, does the part number on the power supply match what I had in that list (which is for the original S3 OLED)?

TiVo S3 OLED capacitor list:
3Y power supply: CP-1104 R2
TiVo PN: SPWR-00008-000 Rev A3

Scott


----------



## unitron

Peter Creath said:


> I hate to resurrect ancient threads, but this one was very helpful. I accidentally knocked out the power from my S3 that has been running for the past 9 years, and when I plugged it back in, it was stuck in the Powering Up loop.
> 
> I've tested the (expansion) HD using WD's tools and it reported no errors after a full media scan.
> 
> So I suspect the power supply. In testing, I once unplugged & replugged it quickly. The fan didn't spin up, and instead there was a ticking. If I give it a few minutes to discharge, then it ticks once or twice and then comes on. Here are the voltages I've observed:
> 
> Without HD:
> orange = 3.04V
> red = 5.06V
> yellow = 12.81V
> 
> With HD:
> orange = 3.13V
> red = 5.06V
> yellow = 12.34V
> 
> Without HD, ticking power supply:
> orange = 2.9-3.2V
> red = 3.1-3.5V
> yellow = 5-9V
> (all swinging wildly)
> 
> Looking at the capacitors, it seems that C401 and C402 are bulging (though not leaking).
> 
> Do others agree that it's the power supply? I was surprised that the voltages were so close to nominal.
> 
> If I decide to replace the capacitors myself, how should I go about dislodging them from the white glue that's holding them in place? (The glue on C402 has it stuck to the adjacent coil.) (I'd be tempted to go with the Weaknees replacement, but then I have to pay for return shipping and at least one person had his go bad 7 months after replacing it.)


Have we definitely established that you have an original Series 3, the TCD648250B, the one with the clock, and not an S3 HD (TCD652160) or HD XL (TCD658000)?

When you said "expansion" HD, did you mean an eSATA external, or a bigger than stock internal?

If you have at least one bulging cap, go ahead and replace all of the medium (physical) sized ones and be done with it.

However, getting the first screen and not moving on to the second one indicates a lack of proper communication between the motherboard and the internal drive (which can be caused by a bad drive, scrambled software on a good drive, a good drive but not enough power to spin it up, a bad power connection, or a bad data cable, or, I suppose, a failed SATA data port on the motherboard, or maybe even not enough power to make the port on the motherboard perform properly).

While you have it apart, you should hook the drive to a PC motherboard (holler if you have a GigaByte board, special precautions are needed) and run the drive manufacturer's own diagnostic software long test, to check the physical well being of the drive, as well as using either WinMFS or the MFS Live cd and running

mfsinfo

to check the software on the drive.

If you're running an external as well, you might need both connected for that.

Yours is the first time I've seen a +12V line and a +5V line look good and the +3.3V line be "off".

Usually the orange is okay and the yellow or the red or both are where the problem shows.

After straightening out the power supply, you might still need to run KickStart 58


----------



## unitron

Peter Creath said:


> Thanks, all, for the quick feedback. I hadn't considered replacing all of them, so thanks for the tip!
> 
> I found this list of capacitor part numbers from Digikey. Is that all of them? Were there multiple versions of the power supply, or can I just go from that list?
> 
> (Any reason to prefer Mouser over Digikey?)
> 
> Are those good quality capacitors? (I know how to choose capacitance and voltage, but I don't know what else makes a "good" capacitor or what other characteristics I need to match -- diameter presumably?)
> 
> Oh, and how long do I need to wait for the power supply to discharge before I start attacking it with a soldering iron?


The original S3, as far as is known, only used the one model of power supply, whereas the later HD/HD XL models used the same different supply, but there are two different versions of it by two different manufacturers.

So the 648 supply should only be used in a 648, but a 652 or 658 supply can be swapped into either a 652 or 658.

The 648 supply has a gray wire for a 7.5V rail (apparently for the OLED display--the clock) that the later supplies don't have.

If there's a load (like, say, the motherboard) connected to the power supply when you unplug it from the wall, it should drain all the caps so that there's no noticeable charge still on them.

Just remember the first rule:

ALWAYS KNOW WHERE BOTH ENDS OF THE POWER CORD ARE AT ALL TIMES!

As for whether Digi-Key or Mouser is the best--the best one is the one with what you need in stock.

Both companies have had good reps since long before TiVos existed.


----------



## dlfl

unitron said:


> The original S3, as far as is known, only used the one model of power supply, whereas the later HD/HD XL models used the same different supply, but there are two different versions of it by two different manufacturers.
> 
> So the 648 supply should only be used in a 648, but a 652 or 658 supply can be swapped into either a 652 or 658.
> ..........


Just for clarification, can either version of the HD/HD XL supply be used in any HD/HD XL box, i.e., are they interchangeble (including mounting and cabling)?


----------



## Peter Creath

unitron said:


> Have we definitely established that you have an original Series 3, the TCD648250B, the one with the clock, and not an S3 HD (TCD652160) or HD XL (TCD658000)?


Yes, I just confirmed. It's the TCD648250B, and the power supply is part number is SPWR-00008-000 Rev A3. (I didn't see "CP-1104 R2" anywhere though.)



> When you said "expansion" HD, did you mean an eSATA external, or a bigger than stock internal?


Bigger than stock internal.



> If you have at least one bulging cap, go ahead and replace all of the medium (physical) sized ones and be done with it.


OK, so not the giant one nor the small ceramic ones. Is this list all of the "medium" ones you're describing? (Are they better than the original ones?)



> However, getting the first screen and not moving on to the second one indicates a lack of proper communication between the motherboard and the internal drive... While you have it apart, you should hook the drive to a PC motherboard...and run the drive manufacturer's own diagnostic software long test, to check the physical well being of the drive, as well as using either WinMFS or the MFS Live cd and running mfsinfo...


I already ran the manufacturer's long test, no errors. Thanks for the tip about mfsinfo, I'll check that as well. (It's been a while since I poked around at MFS.)



> After straightening out the power supply, you might still need to run KickStart 58


Thanks, I wouldn't have thought of that.


----------



## unitron

dlfl said:


> Just for clarification, can either version of the HD/HD XL supply be used in any HD/HD XL box, i.e., are they interchangeble (including mounting and cabling)?


The HD (the TCD652160), and the HD XL (the TCD658000) look the same on the outside (except some lettering and such), and are basically the same device except for however they achieved the THX certification on the XL.

If you have a 652 and a 658, or two 652s, or two 658s, the power supplies are interchangeable, whether they say AcBel or 3Y.

Just watch out if you have a 648 (original S3, with clock display on front) opened up at the same time, as physically the 3Y power supply in it is interchangeable with either of the HD/HD XL supplies (mounting holes in the same places, cabling looks the same-except for gray wire on 648), but electrically it's not, and you don't want to risk letting out the magic smoke.


----------



## unitron

Peter Creath said:


> Yes, I just confirmed. It's the TCD648250B, and the power supply is part number is SPWR-00008-000 Rev A3. (I didn't see "CP-1104 R2" anywhere though.)
> 
> Bigger than stock internal.
> 
> OK, so not the giant one nor the small ceramic ones. Is this list all of the "medium" ones you're describing? (Are they better than the original ones?)
> 
> I already ran the manufacturer's long test, no errors. Thanks for the tip about mfsinfo, I'll check that as well. (It's been a while since I poked around at MFS.)
> 
> Thanks, I wouldn't have thought of that.


Yeah, HerronScott's list should be all the ones you need for the 648.

Those are the ones that do the hard work of filtering out the high switching frequencies used in these switch-mode power supplies.

What you're doing is replacing supposed low-ESR, 105 degree Centigrade rated capacitors, made by companies which turned out not to be as trustworthy as one would like, with low ESR, 105 degree rated caps from known reputable manufacturers and sources.

You need to use the same microFarad (uF) rating as the one being replaced, and the same voltage rating, unless unavailable, in which case the next step up, like say a 25V instead of a 16V, can be used.

But don't use a different uF.

There might be minor physical size differences, like taller and skinnier, or shorter and fatter, but the replacements should be pretty nearly the same size.

Capacitors are very simple devices in theory and very complex in the real world, so you want to adhere to what the power supply design engineers thought they'd be getting when they determined the specs.


----------



## Peter Creath

Peter Creath said:


> Yes, I just confirmed. It's the TCD648250B, and the power supply is part number is SPWR-00008-000 Rev A3. (I didn't see "CP-1104 R2" anywhere though.)


I now see as "CP-1104" but no R2. Same TiVo part number, though.



> Thanks for the tip about mfsinfo, I'll check that as well. (It's been a while since I poked around at MFS.)


mfsinfo didn't really say anything interesting that I could see. It happily listed off all of my partitions and said the volume could be expanded 3 more times.

Is there a particular argument I should pass it for more rigorous diagnostics?

Also, now that I have my power supply removed, I'm looking at the solder points on the bottom. Some of them seem very near to the large exposed (solder?) paths that seem to follow the conductors under the insulation.

What are those exposed conductors? Do I need to be extremely precise in my soldering to avoid touching them?

Also, since I didn't bring my motherboard to my soldering workstation, what kind of load should I put on the power supply to discharge it after testing it? (I'd like to plug it in and test the voltage output before I take it back home.)


----------



## Peter Creath

As a postscript for those who might find this thread later:

Short version, it was the power supply, and replacing the caps worked.



Peter Creath said:


> I now see as "CP-1104" but no R2. Same TiVo part number, though.


The capacitor ratings were the same, though the dimensions of the replacements were slightly different (some fatter). They all fit anyway.



> What are those exposed conductors? Do I need to be extremely precise in my soldering to avoid touching them?


Using a continuity tester, I confirmed that I didn't have to be extremely precise.



> what kind of load should I put on the power supply to discharge it after testing it?


Testing it without a load didn't work, it just ticked. When I plugged in the motherboard (no HD), the voltages were: 12.9V, 5.1V, 3.33V.

The only real obstacle I encountered was that the solder points must have had some sort of coating over them, which made melting the existing solder a little difficult. Adding a small glob of solder first and using a desoldering vacuum pump did the trick.

...of course then I discovered the impending Comcast switch from MPEG-2 to h.264...


----------



## HerronScott

Peter Creath said:


> ...of course then I discovered the impending Comcast switch from MPEG-2 to h.264...


Glad to hear you got it back up and running. Are you in one of the area's that they've documented as moving? I'm guessing it will be a while before they get to our small town so holding onto the S3's until then. 

Scott


----------



## Teeps

Peter Creath said:


> ...of course then I discovered the impending Comcast switch from MPEG-2 to h.264...


Well you can go OTA.
Or.
At the very least you have a working S3 OLED unit, that has some resale value, if it has life time sub.


----------



## cjmdriver

I brought an old Series 3 out of the closet that had not been used for 4 or 5 years, got a cable card from comcast and had it start up one time, lock up and then was stuck on the welcome screen.

I am super happy to not have to toss the box because I came here and found a solution.

Was considering buying a pre-configured HD since I did not have a working drive to copy from.

Here is what I ended up doing:

Checked all the capacitors for bulging or leaking - all looked good!
Used a 500GB Seagate 35.3 SATA drive that came in a DVR expander enclosure that I was no longer using.
Downloaded the TCD348250B .bak image from dropbox found in another thread here.
Connected the external SATA drive to my Windows 7 box.
Ran WinMFS (as administrator)
Did "DiskPart Clean" to get rid of the inode 1 failure in WinMFS to get rid of the NTFS partition on the drive
Did a Restore in WinMFS
Moved the drive from the external enclosure into the TiVo
The TiVo started up! But no lights on the front and remote didn't work
Fully inserted the ribbon cable that connects the front display
Finished Getting Started and got the cable card paired
Able to watch Live TV - but had hardware error #51. Doh! Forgot to do a "Clean and Delete Everything"
Did Clean and Delete, re-ran setup
It Works! Did not have to re-pair the cable card. 

Now, I will try and replace the drive in our original DirecTiVo at the in-laws that crapped out recently.
I am seriously considering backing up and expanding the working drive in our TiVo HD that has an expander as well.

Thank you to everyone here who helps out this community.


----------



## timhbtr53

cjmdriver said:


> I brought an old Series 3 out of the closet that had not been used for 4 or 5 years, got a cable card from comcast and had it start up one time, lock up and then was stuck on the welcome screen.
> 
> I am super happy to not have to toss the box because I came here and found a solution.
> 
> Was considering buying a pre-configured HD since I did not have a working drive to copy from.
> 
> Here is what I ended up doing:
> 
> Checked all the capacitors for bulging or leaking - all looked good!
> Used a 500GB Seagate 35.3 SATA drive that came in a DVR expander enclosure that I was no longer using.
> Downloaded the TCD348250B .bak image from dropbox found in another thread here.
> Connected the external SATA drive to my Windows 7 box.
> Ran WinMFS (as administrator)
> Did "DiskPart Clean" to get rid of the inode 1 failure in WinMFS to get rid of the NTFS partition on the drive
> Did a Restore in WinMFS
> Moved the drive from the external enclosure into the TiVo
> The TiVo started up! But no lights on the front and remote didn't work
> Fully inserted the ribbon cable that connects the front display
> Finished Getting Started and got the cable card paired
> Able to watch Live TV - but had hardware error #51. Doh! Forgot to do a "Clean and Delete Everything"
> Did Clean and Delete, re-ran setup
> It Works! Did not have to re-pair the cable card.
> 
> Now, I will try and replace the drive in our original DirecTiVo at the in-laws that crapped out recently.
> I am seriously considering backing up and expanding the working drive in our TiVo HD that has an expander as well.
> 
> Thank you to everyone here who helps out this community.


_____________________________________________________________

Looks like you did everything right, and it's working so that's a great job.... 
Thumbs up


----------



## haidawei

I have a Tivo HD with a 1TB hard drive that failed. I used the original 160GB HDD from another Tivo HD and made a backup with WinMFS. I then restored the software onto a new 2TB HDD (WD20EURX). I then used MFSadd to use all of the 2TB drive. Everything looks good and I have 15 partitions after the expansion (last partition is 1.7TB in size). 

I then put the new HDD into the Tivo HD and I can't get past the "Welcome! Powering Up" screen. To me it seems as though the new 2TB HDD is not even spinning up. As a test, I put the original 160GB drive back into the Tivo HD and the HDD spins up and the Tivo boots up with no problem. As a final double check, I put the new 2TB HDD into my other Tivo HD and it exhibits the same problem (stuck on Welcome screen and seems to not be spinning). But, when I put the 2TB HDD into my computer, it spins up no problem and WinMFS reads it as a Tivo drive.

What am I doing wrong? It has been years since I used winMFS to upgrade my Tivo to the 1TB drive. I am not sure if I am doing something wrong this time. As an aside, I also upgraded my old S3 (with OLED) with a 2TB HDD years ago. So I know it's possible and I did do it correctly at that point.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
David


----------



## unitron

haidawei said:


> I have a Tivo HD with a 1TB hard drive that failed. I used the original 160GB HDD from another Tivo HD and made a backup with WinMFS. I then restored the software onto a new 2TB HDD (WD20EURX). I then used MFSadd to use all of the 2TB drive. Everything looks good and I have 15 partitions after the expansion (last partition is 1.7TB in size).
> 
> I then put the new HDD into the Tivo HD and I can't get past the "Welcome! Powering Up" screen. To me it seems as though the new 2TB HDD is not even spinning up. As a test, I put the original 160GB drive back into the Tivo HD and the HDD spins up and the Tivo boots up with no problem. As a final double check, I put the new 2TB HDD into my other Tivo HD and it exhibits the same problem (stuck on Welcome screen and seems to not be spinning). But, when I put the 2TB HDD into my computer, it spins up no problem and WinMFS reads it as a Tivo drive.
> 
> What am I doing wrong? It has been years since I used winMFS to upgrade my Tivo to the 1TB drive. I am not sure if I am doing something wrong this time. As an aside, I also upgraded my old S3 (with OLED) with a 2TB HDD years ago. So I know it's possible and I did do it correctly at that point.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> David


Usually if you get the first screen (which you get even with no hard drive connected), but it never moves on to the "Just a few more minutes" screen, it means the motherboard isn't communicating with the hard drive.

Since the motherboard can communicate with the 160GB just fine, and the problem follows the 2TB to the other TiVo, it sounds like maybe Intellipark is to blame.

I thought that Western Digital wasn't sending out the A/V versions of the Green drives with it turned on anymore, but yours may be an exception for some reason.

You can download this

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49887720/wdidle3.iso

and burn it "as an image" to a cd-r, and boot the PC with it (with the EURX the only hard drive connected) and run

wdidle3.exe /?

at the command prompt when it finishes booting, and that'll give you the options available so you can do

wdidle3.exe /(insert option here)

I think I remember that

/R

will "report" whether Intellipark is enabled on the drive or not, and that

/D

will disable it, and if it doesn't then

/S 300

will set the timeout period for 300 seconds, which is 5 minutes, instead of the default 6 or 8 seconds, and for a TiVo that's as good as disabling it.

If you have a copy of The Ultimate Boot CD, which is handy to have around, it's got

wdidle3.exe

on it, as well as the WD diagnostic software (and a whole bunch of other stuff).


----------



## lpwcomp

I don't see how Intellipark could be the problem. The drive _*has*_ to park the heads when it spins down. Spinning it back up will unpark them. Intellipark is only used to park the heads when the disk is still spinning but idle and shouldn't even be in play when the power is cycled.

The more likely culprit is a marginal power supply.


----------



## haidawei

lpwcomp said:


> I don't see how Intellipark could be the problem. The drive _*has*_ to park the heads when it spins down. Spinning it back up will unpark them. Intellipark is only used to park the heads when the disk is still spinning but idle and shouldn't even be in play when the power is cycled.
> 
> The more likely culprit is a marginal power supply.


When I originally restored the HDD, I used wdidle3 (I forgot to mention that in my original post). I just checked again with wdidle3.exe /r and the HDD is disabled.

You think that the issue is the power supply on 2 different TiVo HDs (both TiVo HDs don't seem to spin up the new drive)? I read about the power supply issue in previous posts/threads but I was skeptical that it would be an issue with 2 machines. Both machines power up the original HDD with no problem.

If I were to have to replace the power supply, how much does that cost? Any additional help or suggestions would be appreciated.


----------



## lpwcomp

haidawei said:


> When I originally restored the HDD, I used wdidle3 (I forgot to mention that in my original post). I just checked again with wdidle3.exe /r and the HDD is disabled.
> 
> You think that the issue is the power supply on 2 different TiVo HDs (both TiVo HDs don't seem to spin up the new drive)? I read about the power supply issue in previous posts/threads but I was skeptical that it would be an issue with 2 machines. Both machines power up the original HDD with no problem.
> 
> If I were to have to replace the power supply, how much does that cost? Any additional help or suggestions would be appreciated.


I missed the fact that was two different THDs, which does make it less likely that it is a PS problem, although the Series 3s were prone to "capacitor plague" so it is still a possibility. If the drive is indeed not spinning up, it would seem to me that it just about has to be a power problem of some sort. Maybe the drive has a problem that doesn't manifest itself when connected to the more robust PS in a PC or there is a connector problem with the drive when the combined connector in the THD is being used.

If you or someone you know can solder, replacing the caps on the PS is inexpensive.


----------



## haidawei

lpwcomp said:


> I missed the fact that was two different THDs, which does make it less likely that it is a PS problem, although the Series 3s were prone to "capacitor plague" so it is still a possibility. If the drive is indeed not spinning up, it would seem to me that it just about has to be a power problem of some sort. Maybe the drive has a problem that doesn't manifest itself when connected to the more robust PS in a PC or there is a connector problem with the drive when the combined connector in the THD is being used.
> 
> If you or someone you know can solder, replacing the caps on the PS is inexpensive.


Thanks for the input. I also have a S3 OLED that is running on a 2TB HDD. Do you think I should open that up and try and run the new HDD to see if it will work in the OLED machine? If the drive spins up in the OLED then that could point to the PS in the 2 Tivo HDs. If it doesn't spin up then I would question if it were the PS since the OLED machine is already running on an upgraded 2TB WD Green drive. Thoughts?


----------



## lpwcomp

haidawei said:


> Thanks for the input. I also have a S3 OLED that is running on a 2TB HDD. Do you think I should open that up and try and run the new HDD to see if it will work in the OLED machine? If the drive spins up in the OLED then that could point to the PS in the 2 Tivo HDs. If it doesn't spin up then I would question if it were the PS since the OLED machine is already running on an upgraded 2TB WD Green drive. Thoughts?


Might be worth a shot.

Visually inspect the PS in the THDs and see if there are any obviously bulging caps.

Also look at the drive to see if the connectors are a bit wonky making a proper connection difficult with the combined connector in the TiVos.


----------



## haidawei

lpwcomp said:


> Might be worth a shot.
> 
> Visually inspect the PS in the THDs and see if there are any obviously bulging caps.
> 
> Also look at the drive to see if the connectors are a bit wonky making a proper connection difficult with the combined connector in the TiVos.


I took the new 2TB HDD (WD20EURX) and put it in my OLED machine. To me it does not seem to spin up (just like the TivoHDs). When I hold the HDD in my hand, I do not feel anything.

I then took the 2TB HDD (WD20EARX) that I upgraded years ago for my OLED and put it into both TivoHDs. That HDD spins up, but I can't get past the original welcome screen. Is that because the HDD is "paired" with the OLED machine?

I then put the WD20EARX back into the OLED and it boots up properly and is working fine.

Do you still think it's a PS issue? Or could it be a HDD issue with the new WD20EURX? For some reason it won't power up on my 2 Tivo HDs or my OLED machine, but will power up on my PC? Perhaps it is spinning up in the Tivos, but all of my other HDDs make sounds/vibrate when running in the Tivos, but this new HDD is quiet and feels like nothing is happening inside. Plus, as I am thinking about it, the new HDD does vibrate when it is connected to my PC.

I looked at the caps on the 2 TivoHDs and they look almost identical. I guess you could say that there is some bulging at the bottom on the caps where they are soldered to the board, but they look too close to each other to make one stand out and scream that it is a problem.

I feel like I am close, but not sure what direction to take.


----------



## lpwcomp

haidawei said:


> I took the new 2TB HDD (WD20EURX) and put it in my OLED machine. To me it does not seem to spin up (just like the TivoHDs). When I hold the HDD in my hand, I do not feel anything.
> 
> I then took the 2TB HDD (WD20EARX) that I upgraded years ago for my OLED and put it into both TivoHDs. That HDD spins up, but I can't get past the original welcome screen. Is that because the HDD is "paired" with the OLED machine?
> 
> I then put the WD20EARX back into the OLED and it boots up properly and is working fine.
> 
> Do you still think it's a PS issue? Or could it be a HDD issue with the new WD20EURX? For some reason it won't power up on my 2 Tivo HDs or my OLED machine, but will power up on my PC? Perhaps it is spinning up in the Tivos, but all of my other HDDs make sounds/vibrate when running in the Tivos, but this new HDD is quiet and feels like nothing is happening inside. Plus, as I am thinking about it, the new HDD does vibrate when it is connected to my PC.
> 
> I looked at the caps on the 2 TivoHDs and they look almost identical. I guess you could say that there is some bulging at the bottom on the caps where they are soldered to the board, but they look too close to each other to make one stand out and scream that it is a problem.
> 
> I feel like I am close, but not sure what direction to take.


At this point, it sounds more like a drive issue. Either the connector is funky or the drive is motor is "sticky" and needs more power than the TiVo PS is providing.

Then again, I'm far from an expert in these matters and I haven't even stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.


----------



## haidawei

lpwcomp said:


> Might be worth a shot.
> 
> Visually inspect the PS in the THDs and see if there are any obviously bulging caps.
> 
> Also look at the drive to see if the connectors are a bit wonky making a proper connection difficult with the combined connector in the TiVos.


I have attached 2 pictures of the WD20EURX in case that helps in any way.


----------



## haidawei

lpwcomp said:


> At this point, it sounds more like a drive issue. Either the connector is funky or the drive is motor is "sticky" and needs more power than the TiVo PS is providing.
> 
> Then again, I'm far from an expert in these matters and I haven't even stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.


James, thanks for your help with this. I guess I will try and return the HDD and get a new one. Should I get the same model? Or try something else?

Also, is it possible for the 2TB drive that is working in the OLED machine to switch over to a TiVo HD? Or is it specific to the OLED? Basically, are they interchangeable after you have been using the HDD in one machine for many years?


----------



## lpwcomp

haidawei said:


> I have attached 2 pictures of the WD20EURX in case that helps in any way.


Not sure I could see anything anyway, but a view of the circuit board side might be helpful.


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## haidawei

lpwcomp said:


> Not sure I could see anything anyway, but a view of the circuit board side might be helpful.


Hope this helps.


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## lpwcomp

haidawei said:


> Hope this helps.


Maybe it's just me, but the power pins appear to be slightly recessed compared to the data pins. That would explain why it works with the two separate connectors in the PC but doesn't work with the combined connector in the TiVos.


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## haidawei

lpwcomp said:


> Maybe it's just me, but the power pins appear to be slightly recessed compared to the data pins. That would explain why it works with the two separate connectors in the PC but doesn't work with the combined connector in the TiVos.


Should I try and return the drive and get the same model as a replacement?


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## lpwcomp

haidawei said:


> Should I try and return the drive and get the same model as a replacement?


I would.


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## worachj

What version of the software was on the image that you used? If I recall correctly the version needed to be 11.0m in order to expand it to 2 TB. The image also needs to be the latest 11.0m because it seems that TiVo will no longer update old software on Series 3 TiVo's.


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## haidawei

worachj said:


> What version of the software was on the image that you used? If I recall correctly the version needed to be 11.0m in order to expand it to 2 TB. The image also needs to be the latest 11.0m because it seems that TiVo will no longer update old software on Series 3 TiVo's.


Yes, I am running version 11.0m of the software. That was on msinfo (and is the version that my original 160GB drive is running).


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## essmd

I am happy that there is still activity in this thread.

I have a HD, TCD652160 with Lifetime. 

While watching, it suddenly rebooted and the powering up screen was on for hours.

Subsequent attempts were the same, never got past the single LED, so couldn't do diagnostics in the unit.

Inside the HD was powered up, removed and attached to Win 8.1 directly. WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostics identified and SMART STATUS is a PASS.

WinMFS 9.3 did not find disk, but not sure that will work with Win 8.1

I assume either the drive is corrupt or some other problem than power supply.

I want to upgrade to 1TB anyway, but would like to take my programs.

How can I clone the current disk to the new 1TB drive yet make it access all 1TB?

IF I can't capture old drive data, how do I make the new drive ready to boot?

What else can I do?

Thanks


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## worachj

essmd said:


> I am happy that there is still activity in this thread.
> 
> I have a HD, TCD652160 with Lifetime.
> 
> While watching, it suddenly rebooted and the powering up screen was on for hours.
> 
> Subsequent attempts were the same, never got past the single LED, so couldn't do diagnostics in the unit.
> 
> Inside the HD was powered up, removed and attached to Win 8.1 directly. WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostics identified and SMART STATUS is a PASS.
> 
> WinMFS 9.3 did not find disk, but not sure that will work with Win 8.1
> 
> I assume either the drive is corrupt or some other problem than power supply.
> 
> I want to upgrade to 1TB anyway, but would like to take my programs.
> 
> How can I clone the current disk to the new 1TB drive yet make it access all 1TB?
> 
> IF I can't capture old drive data, how do I make the new drive ready to boot?
> 
> What else can I do?
> 
> Thanks


WinMFS should be able to see the TiVo drive in Win 8.1, but you need to run it under admin privileges. Extract WinMFS from the zip file and right click on the WinMFS.exe and select Run as administrator". I believe there is a "copy" command which will transfer everything over to the new drive.


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## HerronScott

haidawei said:


> James, thanks for your help with this. I guess I will try and return the HDD and get a new one. Should I get the same model? Or try something else?
> 
> Also, is it possible for the 2TB drive that is working in the OLED machine to switch over to a TiVo HD? Or is it specific to the OLED? Basically, are they interchangeable after you have been using the HDD in one machine for many years?


You can't use a drive with the OLED software on it in an HD. You can reimage the 2TB drive with an HD image though and use it.

Scott


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## haidawei

HerronScott said:


> You can't use a drive with the OLED software on it in an HD. You can reimage the 2TB drive with an HD image though and use it.
> 
> Scott


Thanks for the clarification. I have ordered a replacement WD20EURX. I will try again and see if that drive powers up.


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## lpwcomp

If all else fails, you could separate the two connectors and see if that works any better.


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## haidawei

lpwcomp said:


> If all else fails, you could separate the two connectors and see if that works any better.


Never thought of that. I will try the new replacement HDD first and then see if I need to cut the connector. Cutting makes me nervous though (no turning back).


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## haidawei

lpwcomp said:


> If all else fails, you could separate the two connectors and see if that works any better.


My replacement WD20EURX arrived today and the exact same thing happened. The two TivoHDs would not power up the 2TB drive. BUT, I found a WD15EARS acting as a backup drive on a PC and decided to give that a try. I ran WinMFS with no problems and inserted the HDD into the TivoHD. The HDD powered up and the Tivo booted up with no problem. The unit is capable of 238 hours of HD recording.

Should I just resign myself to the fact that the TivoHD will only have 238 hours of HD instead of the 318 hours? I was thinking of buying a SATA power extension cable (15 pin female to male cable). The male of this extension cable should be able to connect to the female part of the TiVo connector (data/power combined connector) and then the female of the extension cable will go into the HDD. Is my thinking correct? I would then get a separate SATA data cable to connect the HDD to the motherboard (bypassing the data connector on the Tivo supplied combined connector). Perhaps this will give the HDD the power that it needs?

Worst case is I have a functioning TivoHD with 238 hours, but I would like to get all 318 hours if possible. Does anyone know if any brick and mortar stores have a SATA power extension cable? I can order one from Amazon and get it in 2 days, but I wanted to put this project to bed.

Any insight would be appreciated.


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## lpwcomp

haidawei said:


> Does anyone know if any brick and mortar stores have a SATA power extension cable?


Fry's and Microcenter


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## JustAllie

My TiVo Series 3 with lifetime service started having this same reboot loop problem tonight.  

I am not technically very proficient -- should I just buy a new TiVo and let someone savvier than me try to fix this thing? 

I could probably open the case and install a pre-formatted drive, but I've never attempted to diagnose or fix a power supply.


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## unitron

JustAllie said:


> My TiVo Series 3 with lifetime service started having this same reboot loop problem tonight.
> 
> I am not technically very proficient -- should I just buy a new TiVo and let someone savvier than me try to fix this thing?
> 
> I could probably open the case and install a pre-formatted drive, but I've never attempted to diagnose or fix a power supply.


Do you have a TCD648250B, a TCD652160, or a TCD658000?

Does it use cable cards?


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## JustAllie

unitron said:


> Do you have a *TCD648250B*, a TCD652160, or a TCD658000?
> 
> Does it use cable cards?


It's the first model.

It currently has two S-cards in it from Verizon FiOS. Frankly some of the upper channels have been flakey for a while, but I rarely try to watch those so I didn't think much of it. (As an example, I haven't been able to get the free HBO preview to work on channel 899.)


----------



## Teeps

JustAllie said:


> My TiVo Series 3 with lifetime service started having this same reboot loop problem tonight.
> 
> I am not technically very proficient -- should I just buy a new TiVo and let someone savvier than me try to fix this thing?
> 
> I could probably open the case and install a pre-formatted drive, but I've never attempted to diagnose or fix a power supply.


Any electronics repair shop should be able to replace capacitors in the power supply. 
There is much information on the inter webs with regard to tivo power supplies complete with parts lists.

There could even be a TiVoista in your area that could do it.


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## JustAllie

I will reach out to my local TiVo friends to see if someone knows how to replace a power supply. 

Today when I plugged in the TiVo it would not even light up at all, so I guess it's definitely a power supply issue. 

I called TiVo technical support and they offered to swap it out (probably for a Premiere refurb) for $79 (instead of the usual $149 swap-out fee), but then they want to charge $199 to transfer the lifetime service to the replacement TiVo. I'm not sure what a TiVo Premiere with lifetime is worth, so I'm not sure if I should take them up on this offer. 

They also offered a TiVo Bolt at the usual price (which means lifetime = $599, no thanks) or suggested sending it to Weaknees for repair.


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## Teeps

JustAllie said:


> I will reach out to my local TiVo friends to see if someone knows how to replace a power supply.


They just need to replace the capacitors not the entire power supply.
About $15 for the "caps" plus labor or barter for adult beverage...


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## JustAllie

Teeps said:


> They just need to replace the capacitors not the entire power supply.
> About $15 for the "caps" plus labor or barter for adult beverage...


Sweet -- I have lots of beer and nobody to help drink it. 

I started a thread in the Community Meets forum in hopes of drumming up interest from my more technically-savvy friends.


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## Hamstring

I got a non lifetime 3 series on eBay for 20 bucks and swapped out my power supply for that one. It was a few screws.


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## JustAllie

Clever idea! But if these bad capacitors are a problem with many Series3 TiVos, isn't the problem likely to recur with a power supply from another Series3?


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## unitron

JustAllie said:


> It's the first model.
> 
> It currently has two S-cards in it from Verizon FiOS. Frankly some of the upper channels have been flakey for a while, but I rarely try to watch those so I didn't think much of it. (As an example, I haven't been able to get the free HBO preview to work on channel 899.)


I was going to suggest testing with the extra electrical load of the cable cards out of the picture, but it sounds like it's too late for that.

And yes, a power supply from another 648 is just as vulnerable to the problem if it hasn't already had the usual suspects replaced.

EDIT:See below before reading this paragraph---If you can swap in a known working 648 power supply (You'll need a #10 Hex bit for everything except for one small screw that goes into the plastic part of the AC input jack from the outside of the TiVo, and you'll need a #9 Hex bit for that), you can find out if the problem is/was only the power supply.

I've got inquiries into a couple of DC area Craglist-ings--people tend to say S3 without specifying which of the 3 S3 models it is.

Also, there seems to be a guy in Millersville, MD who knows about working on TiVos.

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/wan/5296539486.html

EDIT: where it says hex bit, read Torx bit.


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## unitron

Where I said hex bit above I should have said Torx bit.

Must remember to use brain next time.


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## unitron

And here's a driver handle and bit set with the sizes needed for TiVo work.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-8-in-1-Torx-Screwdriver-Set-74502/100087664










They have a similar looking set with flatblade and Phillips head bits instead, so be sure you''re getting the one you think you are.


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## JustAllie

JustAllie said:


> I will reach out to my local TiVo friends to see if someone knows how to replace a power supply.
> 
> Today when I plugged in the TiVo it would not even light up at all, so I guess it's definitely a power supply issue.
> 
> I called TiVo technical support and they offered to swap it out (probably for a Premiere refurb) for $79 (instead of the usual $149 swap-out fee), but then they want to charge $199 to transfer the lifetime service to the replacement TiVo. I'm not sure what a TiVo Premiere with lifetime is worth, so I'm not sure if I should take them up on this offer.
> 
> They also offered a TiVo Bolt at the usual price (which means lifetime = $599, no thanks) or suggested sending it to Weaknees for repair.


FYI, another kind forum member sent me a power supply, and some local TCF friends helped me install it. One of them even had a Swiss Army knife with a #9 Torx driver. :up: I plied everyone with a whiskey tasting themed evening, but we didn't start tasting the whiskey until the TiVo was fixed. 

The capacitors on the old power supply were definitely "bulging" at the top. I assume that old power supply has no value anymore -- is it okay to just toss it, or should I turn it in for electronics recycling somewhere?

Thanks to folks in this thread for the tips on how to address my problem.


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## Wil

JustAllie said:


> The capacitors on the old power supply were definitely "bulging" at the top. I assume that old power supply has no value anymore -- is it okay to just toss it, or should I turn it in for electronics recycling somewhere?


Please wait for awhile and see if anyone as a result of your post wants to pick it up or is willing to pay shipping. Yes it has value and it's a shame to trash it; I have a few extra already or otherwise I'd offer to pay shipping.


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## HerronScott

JustAllie said:


> The capacitors on the old power supply were definitely "bulging" at the top. I assume that old power supply has no value anymore -- is it okay to just toss it, or should I turn it in for electronics recycling somewhere?


Before you toss it or send it to a recycling place, my son is living in Annandale (attending GMU) and he could meet you at a place of your choosing to pick it up. 

But first see if there's anyone that really needs it.

Scott


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## unitron

My vote (if I get one) and suggestion is either HerronScott's kid, 'cause HerronScott, if memory serves, was the first to post a 648 cap parts list for the benefit of others, or this guy

timhbtr53

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/member.php?u=295537

who's been recapping power supplies at cost for other TCF'ers for a while now.

If he had a spare it would enable him to do more experimenting on reviving sick/dead motherboards or maybe he could start sending out replacement power supplies upon receipt of the one that needs fixing and then fix that one to wait for the next person, lather, rinse, repeat.


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## JustAllie

Wil said:


> Please wait for awhile and see if anyone as a result of your post wants to pick it up or is willing to pay shipping. Yes it has value and it's a shame to trash it; I have a few extra already or otherwise I'd offer to pay shipping.





HerronScott said:


> Before you toss it or send it to a recycling place, my son is living in Annandale (attending GMU) and he could meet you at a place of your choosing to pick it up.
> 
> But first see if there's anyone that really needs it.
> 
> Scott


Ha ha, apparently you're right, I should hang onto it for a bit!

I'll stash it in the basement for a bit. Please PM me if anyone wants an old (non-functional) Series3 power supply.

edit: Nobody asked for it, so I took it to the recycling center recently.


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## JustAllie

JustAllie said:


> I will reach out to my local TiVo friends to see if someone knows how to replace a power supply.
> 
> Today when I plugged in the TiVo it would not even light up at all, so I guess it's definitely a power supply issue.


Bumping this thread for an update. We fixed my Series 3 (with lifetime service) back in December. But then after a recent storm, that same Series 3 is now just making a very soft "click click click" sound and no lights are coming on.

Bad power supply again?? I'm not sure what the soft clicking and no lights is a symptom of.

I am wondering if we can swap out parts from a Series 3 with no service on it to resurrect this machine again.


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## HerronScott

That does sound like a failed power supply especially with no lights (versus the hard drive clicking).

Scott


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## unitron

JustAllie said:


> Bumping this thread for an update. We fixed my Series 3 (with lifetime service) back in December. But then after a recent storm, that same Series 3 is now just making a very soft "click click click" sound and no lights are coming on.
> 
> Bad power supply again?? I'm not sure what the soft clicking and no lights is a symptom of.
> 
> I am wondering if we can swap out parts from a Series 3 with no service on it to resurrect this machine again.


You can swap power supplies from one TCD648250B to another.

You can swap power supplies between TCD652160s and TCD658000s.

Don't put a power supply from a 648 in a 652 or a 658, and don't expect a 652 or 658 power supply to properly operate a 648.

If you have another 648 without service it can never get service ever again no matter who owns it due to the policy change made last fall, so if it has a working hard drive you can take that drive out, lay it on top of the drive in your previously working unit, move the plug from the end of that drive up to the one you just pulled from the other machine, and see if it'll boot to the first screen, the second screen, and TiVo Central.

If so, that indicates a problem with the drive in the machine that just quit working.

Of course it'll take further testing to see if the problem is with the drive itself or the TiVo software on the drive.

That said, if it was the drive making the clicking sound (and they sometimes do when they go bad), I'd not expect it to kill the front panel lights, but the kind of power supply in a TiVo can make a ticking or clicking sound if it keeps trying to get started and fails and tries again and fails and lather, rinse, repeat.

So open up the machine that just quit, unplug the plug that goes to the hard drive (just in case it's failed in a way that draws so much current that the power supply's protection circuitry keeps shutting it down), and see if it'll boot as far as putting the Welcome screen on the TV.

It won't go any further without a hard drive hooked up, and it'd be best to connect to the TV via component or composite video cables instead of HDMI for the testing, but if it boots enough to put the Welcome screen up, then the motherboard is almost certainly okay, and the power supply is either okay and the drive's bad, or the drive's okay but the power supply is failing and can't supply enough current to spin up the drive properly.

So test it with no drive, and then test it with a different drive from another 648.


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## JustAllie

unitron said:


> You can swap power supplies from one TCD648250B to another.
> 
> You can swap power supplies between TCD652160s and TCD658000s.
> 
> Don't put a power supply from a 648 in a 652 or a 658, and don't expect a 652 or 658 power supply to properly operate a 648.
> 
> If you have another 648 without service it can never get service ever again no matter who owns it due to the policy change made last fall, so if it has a working hard drive you can take that drive out, lay it on top of the drive in your previously working unit, move the plug from the end of that drive up to the one you just pulled from the other machine, and see if it'll boot to the first screen, the second screen, and TiVo Central.
> 
> If so, that indicates a problem with the drive in the machine that just quit working.
> 
> Of course it'll take further testing to see if the problem is with the drive itself or the TiVo software on the drive.
> 
> That said, if it was the drive making the clicking sound (and they sometimes do when they go bad), I'd not expect it to kill the front panel lights, but the kind of power supply in a TiVo can make a ticking or clicking sound if it keeps trying to get started and fails and tries again and fails and lather, rinse, repeat.
> 
> So open up the machine that just quit, unplug the plug that goes to the hard drive (just in case it's failed in a way that draws so much current that the power supply's protection circuitry keeps shutting it down), and see if it'll boot as far as putting the Welcome screen on the TV.
> 
> It won't go any further without a hard drive hooked up, and it'd be best to connect to the TV via component or composite video cables instead of HDMI for the testing, but if it boots enough to put the Welcome screen up, then the motherboard is almost certainly okay, and the power supply is either okay and the drive's bad, or the drive's okay but the power supply is failing and can't supply enough current to spin up the drive properly.
> 
> So test it with no drive, and then test it with a different drive from another 648.


Thanks, unitron! This is very helpful.


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## yippiekiyeh

Hi everyone, many moons ago, I was able to upgrade the capacity of the drive and everything was fine.

Then its age began to show, dead power source, was replaced, and the series 3 now will power on, but in a reset loop at the power up screen.

So, I've cloned the old HD to a new HD in an attempt to save the programs on the HD. The tivo still in a reboot loop at the "Power up Screen"

Thoughts? Have I cloned a bad drive so as to continue this boot reset loop?

Would my next step be, putting a fresh image on the new drive to get past the booting up screen?

Thanks for your thoughts.


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## lpwcomp

Did you test the new drive? What size is it? Have you ensured that the power and data connections are secure?


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## yippiekiyeh

lpwcomp said:


> Did you test the new drive? What size is it? Have you ensured that the power and data connections are secure?


Hi thanks for your questions, the new drive is the same size as the old drive. 1TB. I upgraded the capacity many moons ago, and it was fine. It all started down this path when the power source gave out (tick, tick, tick, plus blue flashing dot). It wouldn't power up. I replaced the power source. Then it started the Starting up Loop. So I cloned the drive and put the new drive into the tivo. Still the same result, starting up loop.


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## lpwcomp

yippiekiyeh said:


> Hi thanks for your questions, the new drive is the same size as the old drive. 1TB. I upgraded the capacity many moons ago, and it was fine. It all started down this path when the power source gave out (tick, tick, tick, plus blue flashing dot). It wouldn't power up. I replaced the power source. Then it started the Starting up Loop. So I cloned the drive and put the new drive into the tivo. Still the same result, starting up loop.


Not all 1TB drives are equal. Unless the new drive has the same or more sectors as the old one, you will have a problem.


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## yippiekiyeh

lpwcomp said:


> Not all 1TB drives are equal. Unless the new drive has the same or more sectors as the old one, you will have a problem.


Okay so, say if I wanted to just make the tivo work again without worrying about saving any of the programs saved. Would the sectors in the drive matter?


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## lpwcomp

yippiekiyeh said:


> Okay so, say if I wanted to just make the tivo work again without worrying about saving any of the programs saved. Would the sectors in the drive matter?


You'd have to use an image from a smaller drive.


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## HerronScott

yippiekiyeh said:


> Hi everyone, many moons ago, I was able to upgrade the capacity of the drive and everything was fine.
> 
> Then its age began to show, dead power source, was replaced, and the series 3 now will power on, but in a reset loop at the power up screen.
> 
> So, I've cloned the old HD to a new HD in an attempt to save the programs on the HD. The tivo still in a reboot loop at the "Power up Screen"
> 
> Thoughts? Have I cloned a bad drive so as to continue this boot reset loop?
> 
> Would my next step be, putting a fresh image on the new drive to get past the booting up screen?
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts.


Where did the replacement power supply come from? How did you clone the drive?

Assuming the power supply really is good and doesn't have any failing capacitors, I would start by imaging the new drive with a clean image. If that boots successfully, then you can be pretty sure there must have been some corruption on the old drive.

Scott


----------



## HerronScott

lpwcomp said:


> Not all 1TB drives are equal. Unless the new drive has the same or more sectors as the old one, you will have a problem.


Depending how he cloned it, I didn't think most tools would copy it if they were of different sizes (and I didn't think we had seen issues with drive sizes being different since the earlier smaller drives)?

Scott


----------



## lpwcomp

HerronScott said:


> Where did the replacement power supply come from? How did you clone the drive?
> 
> Assuming the power supply really is good and doesn't have any failing capacitors, I would start by imaging the new drive with a clean image. If that boots successfully, then you can be pretty sure there must have been some corruption on the old drive.
> 
> Scott


I went back and re-read yippiekiyeh's IP and I missed something the first time. The _*original*_ drive was in a reboot loop after replacing the PS.

So yeah, either the replacement PS is bad, there's a bad connection somewhere, or the s/w is corrupt.


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## yippiekiyeh

The replacement power source came from a working tivo series 3. I cloned it with ddrescue. So I decided to try this from a different direction. I have an image, winmfs.exe and a fresh drive. Now I just need some directions on how to put the image onto the drive...


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## HerronScott

It's been a while since I used WinMFS and I was always cloning from one drive to another. First is to be sure to right-click on WinMFS and Run as Administrator assuming you are not still using XP. 

There should be a restore option.

Scott


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## yippiekiyeh

Thanks for your expert analysis. I was cleaning my office, and stumbled upon the original 250 GB hard drive. Popped the original HD and still the same issue. I'm off to get a new power source, *fingers crossed* hoping that the third time is the charm!


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## yippiekiyeh

Just a friendly update. It appears that I had a double failure. Failure of the power source and failure of the hard drive. I bought a rebuilt powersource from DVR nerds and reimaged another 1TB HD hard drive. After replacing all the failed parts, I was able to get the series 3 up and running again. Thanks everyone for their expert diagnoses, and suggestions!


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## dianebrat

yippiekiyeh said:


> Just a friendly update. It appears that I had a double failure. Failure of the power source and failure of the hard drive. I bought a rebuilt powersource from DVR nerds and reimaged another 1TB HD hard drive. After replacing all the failed parts, I was able to get the series 3 up and running again. Thanks everyone for their expert diagnoses, and suggestions!


Power supply issues leading to HD issues are very common, glad to hear you got it resolved.


----------

