# Roamio OTA with lifetime $299



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

This was posted in the Roamio forum but I thought it might also be of interest to those who don't regularly visit the Roamio forum...

http://zatznotfunny.com/2015-05/tivo-now-offers-roamio-ota-lifetime-service/

Link to actual deal...

https://www.tivo.com/TLP4


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## Pacomartin (Jun 11, 2013)

That's a much fairer price than the neverending monthly payment.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Nice deal. Pre-emptive strike against all the OTA DVR startups?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

trip1eX said:


> Nice deal. Pre-emptive strike against all the OTA DVR startups?


I suspect it is... At this price TiVo is the far better deal than any existing service.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Yeah this price point pretty much blows all the other OTA DVR options out of the water.


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## bsmith1051 (Nov 15, 2009)

Is there any down-side to this deal? I've been wanting to upgrade but couldn't justify the cost; I currently have a base-model Premiere using OTA-only. It just seems like such a drastic price-cut for the base-model Roamio with full "Product Lifetime service" (as quoted in the ad).


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## Pacomartin (Jun 11, 2013)

bsmith1051 said:


> Is there any down-side to this deal? I've been wanting to upgrade but couldn't justify the cost; I currently have a base-model Premiere using OTA-only. It just seems like such a drastic price-cut for the base-model Roamio with full "Product Lifetime service" (as quoted in the ad).


By "base-model Premiere" which of these two models do you mean?
TCD746320 320 Gb circa 2010
TCD746500 500 Gb circa 2012

Are you paying monthly? For how many months?

Why do you want the upgrade? The Roamio OTA has 4 tuners. Is that what attracts you. Because the disk drive is still only 500 Gb.


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## bsmith1051 (Nov 15, 2009)

The faster UI attracts me! The extra tuners would be nice but I rarely schedule 2 simultaneous recordings, and even then I can just watch something that's already recorded. And I have Lifetime Service on my Premiere.

re this new offer, it seems Too Good To Be True(tm) but I can't find anything missing; I'm just cautious. Maybe the base-model Roamio's not selling well and they're adjusting the price to move some units?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The biggest difference between the Premiere and the Roamio OTA is that the OTA can ONLY do OTA, the Premiere could do cable, OTA or both. The Roamio has 2 more tuners, most likely more HDD space (unless you have Premiere XL), has better OTA tuners, faster CPU for apps, and a smaller form factor with external power brick instead of internal power supply.


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## eric102 (Oct 31, 2012)

Dan203 said:


> The biggest difference between the Premiere and the Roamio OTA is that the OTA can ONLY do OTA, the Premiere could do cable, OTA or both. The Roamio has 2 more tuners, most likely more HDD space (unless you have Premiere XL), has better OTA tuners, faster CPU for apps, and a smaller form factor with external power brick instead of internal power supply.


Plus its a lot easier to upgrade the Roamio hard drive if needed.


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## doncarruth (May 2, 2015)

For those of us that have already purchased OTA units. Will we have the opportunity to purchase lifetime memberships? OR will we have to purchase new units to get this deal?


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

doncarruth said:


> For those of us that have already purchased OTA units. Will we have the opportunity to purchase lifetime memberships? OR will we have to purchase new units to get this deal?


Even if you cant go Lifetime, you can still buy the new lifetime, stop paying the MRC, and have a spare unit for parts. Most only paid $50 for it.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

Dan203 said:


> This was posted in the Roamio forum but I thought it might also be of interest to those who don't regularly visit the Roamio forum...
> 
> http://zatznotfunny.com/2015-05/tivo-now-offers-roamio-ota-lifetime-service/
> 
> ...


It was interesting to me...I bought two.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

foghorn2 said:


> Even if you cant go Lifetime, you can still buy the new lifetime, stop paying the MRC, *and have a spare unit for parts. Most only paid $50 for it*.


LOL, you're absolutely right--I had forgotten that, in my feeling badly for more recent OTA Roamio purchasers.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

eric102 said:


> Plus its a lot easier to upgrade the Roamio hard drive if needed.


It's a lot easier to *replace* the Roamio hard drive with another of the same size or larger, but an size upgrade that preserves your existing recordings, as is possible on Series 1s through Series 4s, is not, unless something's changed recently, possible.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

This will work with my Pro, right? It multi-room? I miss the ability to have cable and OTA on my Pro (Coming from a THD), at this price it might be nice to have.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

To confirm, I just called TiVo and they said I couldn't buy lifetime for my Roamio OTA. 

And on another topic, I seem to remember that the Roamio won't work with standard definition TVs because it requires a HDMI cable connection. 

On another topic.
"TiVo Continual Care warranty

TiVos Continual Care warranty covers your TiVo Roamio for the uninterrupted duration of your monthly or annual TiVo service subscription. With Continual Care protection, well send you a replacement at no charge if your TiVo Roamio box needs repair within the first 90 days from your date of purchase.* After 90 days, youll receive a replacement DVR for just $49.00.** No one else in the industry offers protection like this.

* Exchange exclusions and restrictions apply. Replacement DVR may be a repaired, renewed or comparable product, at TiVos discretion. Customer responsible for payment of shipping costs. See Limited Warranty Info for details.
** Exchange exclusions and restrictions apply. Replacement DVR may be a repaired, renewed or comparable product, at TiVos discretion. Customer responsible for payment of shipping costs and any applicable taxes. See Limited Warranty Info for details.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

replaytv said:


> And on another topic, I seem to remember that the Roamio won't work with standard definition TVs because it requires a HDMI cable connection.


You are misremembering. There is a composite A/V jack on the Roamio. It will work with SD TVs


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

replaytv said:


> And on another topic, I seem to remember that the Roamio won't work with standard definition TVs because it requires a HDMI cable connection.


Incorrect. The Roamio Plus and Pro come standard with HDMI, composite and component connections. The Roamio standard and OTA come standard with an HDMI and a single-port A/V-out connections--to use the latter, an A/V composite breakout cable is needed from TiVo or elsewhere (around $15). (IMHO, TiVo's failure to include composite and component connections on the Roamio standard and OTA is cheesy--forcing a consumer to lay out more money, for a non-standard cable; and for TiVo's profits?)

Am using the Roamio standard with a composite breakout cable and a standard definition television, and all is right with the world.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Mikeguy said:


> Incorrect. The Roamio Plus and Pro come standard with HDMI, composite and component connections. The Roamio standard and OTA come standard with an HDMI and a single-port A/V-out connections--to use the latter, an A/V composite breakout cable is needed from TiVo or elsewhere (around $15). (IMHO, TiVo's failure to include composite and component connections on the Roamio standard and OTA is cheesy--forcing a consumer to lay out more money, for a non-standard cable; and for TiVo's profits?)
> 
> Am using the Roamio standard with a composite breakout cable and a standard definition television, and all is right with the world.


Another way to view the cable situation is most customers, not needing composite or component cables, will not be paying a higher price for something they are going to throw away.

As far as TiVo's profit, since when is TiVo a charitable enterprise?


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## bsmith1051 (Nov 15, 2009)

Mikeguy said:


> IMHO, TiVo's failure to include composite and component connections on the Roamio standard and OTA is cheesy


Don't most people have drawers full of unused RCA cables? I sure do...


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

ej42137 said:


> Another way to view the cable situation is most customers, not needing composite or component cables, will not be paying a higher price for something they are going to throw away.
> 
> As far as TiVo's profit, since when is TiVo a charitable enterprise?


Except that TiVo could have avoided the situation entirely by using a standard connection, composite and/or component, as it did with the other Roamios (Plus and Pro). My original thought is that maybe TiVo saved production costs by instead going the non-standard consolidated port route (and then made more money by charging consumers $15 for the nonstandard cable), but I don't know enough to know if that really would have been less expensive.

And sometimes, supporting your consumers fairly actually leads to benefit.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

bsmith1051 said:


> Don't most people have drawers full of unused RCA cables? I sure do...


Yep, and that's the issue: TiVo put a nonstandard, unified port onto the Roamio standard and OTA rather than using standard composite and/or component connections, making all those extra RCA cables worthless and forcing consumers who need to use a composite connection to purchase a nonstandard "A/V composite breakout cable" from TiVo.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Mikeguy said:


> Except that TiVo could have avoided the situation entirely by using a standard connection, composite and/or component, as it did with the other Roamios (Plus and Pro). My original thought is that maybe TiVo saved production costs by instead going the non-standard consolidated port route (and then made more money by charging consumers $15 for the nonstandard cable), but I don't know enough to know if that really would have been less expensive.
> 
> And sometimes, supporting your consumers fairly actually leads to benefit.


The new connectors are cheaper to manufacture, there are only two connecters in the assembly versus seven, and they are physically smaller as well. Five fewer components to buy, five fewer holes to drill, insert and solder, and less total impact on the physical size of the device. The vast majority of customers buying a new Roamio are going to connect it to a newer TV which has an HDMI connection, so being able to use standard cables wouldn't be of any benefit to these folks. TiVo is shaving every penny on these models to make them attractive to the lower-end market and capture the cord cutters. It wouldn't be logical for these units to cost more in order to make these entry level units more usable to a small segment of the market.

I think customers like you who want composite or component are still being served by TiVo, because your older technology is still being catered to by the the single pin connectors. Having to purchase a $15 cable to make it work is much better than not being able to do component or composite at all.

Having said all that, I understand and empathize with your frustration; I have boxes of obsolete cables in my workshop, many that cost way more than $15.


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

This is a recurring theme in electronics. As the device shrinks, the old ports are now too big. Surface area utilized on board wastes $$. Then try to imagine the Tivo Mini with 6 RCA connectors on it.

Other examples:
USB, Micro-USB, Mini-USB
Credit Card SIM, SIM chip, Mini SIM, Micro SIM
SD, Mini SD, Micro SD
1/4", 3.5mm, 2.5mm

The nice thing to do would be to not overcharge for legacy cables when people need them.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Yep, as noted above, I kinda assumed that TiVo switched to its "unit-port" to save on manufacturing costs. Personally, I would have preferred paying a few bucks more, if that's the case, for standard connections, as on the Roamio Plus and Pro, for flexibility and quality purposes. And interesting that TiVo retained the "earlier" ports on the Plus and Pro, when one might think that if any group of consumer would be using those connections, it would be the Roamio standard and OTA crowd, as versus the Plus and Pro group.

I do like the idea, as mentioned by telemark, of providing the necessary cable on demand (do note, it's not a "legacy" cable--rather, it's more a new cable of TiVo's own decision/making) or for just a few bucks rather than what seems like a profit-generating $15--but good luck with that . . . . 

In the meanwhile, I wonder how many people open up their new TiVo set packaging only to disappointingly find that they can't connect the set up, because they then have to order a nonstandard cable from TiVo. More generally, I wonder if TiVo has under or mis-estimated its Roamio standard and OTA audience, removing features and/or placing them off-board (connectability/quality, streaming, MoCA connectability)--I don't know that the OTA crowd necessarily is different from the cable crowd with regard to features it wants, apart from wanting and/or needing OTA capability and not needing and/or not wanting to pay the costs of cable.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

There are a lot of concessions they made to keep the price down on the base/OTA units. There is a reason they can sell them for $300 with lifetime and still make money.


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## Spiff (Mar 1, 2004)

Is this deal gone? I bought one yesterday and wanted to share the link with my friends today and I'm only seeing the monthly option.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Still working for me. Over in the Roamio thread some people are complaining about being redirected to the regular page when accessing the link. Some have had sucess using a different browser or just clicking on the link over and over until it shows up.


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

Spiff said:


> Is this deal gone? I bought one yesterday and wanted to share the link with my friends today and I'm only seeing the monthly option.


Try this

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10493343#post10493343

Look at post 94 by JBDragon in the other Roamio OTA thread. I just tried his suggestion and for the first time since I ordered on Friday morning I was able to open the $299 deal page. It took 3 tries but eventually the correct link stuck and didn't redirect me to the normal $49 offer page.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> There are a lot of concessions they made to keep the price down on the base/OTA units. There is a reason they can sell them for $300 with lifetime and still make money.


Absolutely. But also recall that this development is only a few days old, and only for the Roamio OTA--the "low" price has been $699.98 for the Roamio standard ($199.99 box + $499.99 lifetime), and that pricing remains.

Again, I question whether TiVo got its assumptions about its OTA consumer base right. TiVo seems to assume that because that base wants and/or needs OTA, it somehow also doesn't want the other things that the Roamio Plus and Pro bring (enhanced connectability, streaming, and MoCA capability)--albeit, the majority of those features are available by add-ons.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The base unit sells for $145 on Amazon, which means the wholesale price has to be even less. Compared to even the Plus it's less then half. There had to be some hardware concessions to make that happen.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> The base unit sells for $145 on Amazon, which means the wholesale price has to be even less. Compared to even the Plus it's less then half. There had to be some hardware concessions to make that happen.


Yep. And my prior point being, I question TiVo's assumption that the OTA crowd, just because they're that rather than cablefolk, don't also want those other features built in (and be willing to pay for them, of course). I wonder what it was that led TiVo to that conclusion. Could be, TiVo left money on the table by not having offered an OTA equivalent of the Plus/Pro (with built-ins) . (But I probably should be happy, as, personally, I don't need MoCA or streaming right now, and so saved $.)


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Mikeguy said:


> Yep. And my prior point being, I question TiVo's assumption that the OTA crowd, just because they're that rather than cablefolk, don't also want those other features built in (and be willing to pay for them, of course). I wonder what it was that led TiVo to that conclusion. Could be, TiVo left money on the table by not having offered an OTA equivalent of the Plus/Pro (with built-ins) . (But I probably should be happy, as, personally, I don't need MoCA or streaming right now, and so saved $.)


I think you are over thinking it. When TiVo released the Roamio line the base unit wasn't being specifically targeted at OTA users, it was targeting entry level/price concerned mostly cable users. Since then some things have changed and there is more focus on OTA users - TiVo went with what they had instead of designing a new unit that included MOCA & The Stream's functions. Which are easy to add at a reasonable enough cost.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

TiVo knew exactly how many of their users were using OTA with Premiere and lower units. I assume they used that data to decide that producing a full size 6 tuner OTA version was not economically viable. In fact they actually went the oposite way and made an even cheaper version for the cord cutter crowd. Probably under the assumption that if someone is dumping cable to save money, they're pribably not going to want to outlay $400+service for a DVR.

While I'm sure there are people willing to pay for such a unit, I doubt there are enough to justify the R&D and a complete production run of them. (they're not build to order)


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Clearly that fact that people are complaining about having to buy a $15 cable proves that people buying the entry level boxes are extremely price sensitive, and that not including extra-cost features like cables and full size connectors that most purchasers won't need was indeed the correct choice.


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## HeatherA (Jan 10, 2002)

I'm in for one of these to replace the Premiere XL I'm using currently only as OTA. This deal is a no-brainer for us. It will be nice to have a 2nd Roamio in the house.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

ej42137 said:


> Clearly that fact that people are complaining about having to buy a $15 cable proves that people buying the entry level boxes are extremely price sensitive, and that not including extra-cost features like cables and full size connectors that most purchasers won't need was indeed the correct choice.


Actually, I don't see anything clear here, and I just don't know that the fact that some people want OTA or don't want cable, including for cost reasons, means that those same people wouldn't be willing to pay more for a fuller-featured, self-contained Roamio box. In fact, one equally could say that many in this consumer group indeed would be happy to pay for an uber Roamio box and enhanced abilities, using savings from a cable-free state. My best guess is, TiVo just wasn't originally thinking of the OTA crowd much at all, as mentioned above, or just assumed. And I'm also guessing that TiVo left some money on the table from that.

In the end, though, no real consumer "suffering" from this, given the add-on capability for MoCA, streaming, and hard drive storage, for which TiVo is to be commended.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

osu1991 said:


> Try this
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10493343#post10493343
> 
> Look at post 94 by JBDragon in the other Roamio OTA thread. I just tried his suggestion and for the first time since I ordered on Friday morning I was able to open the $299 deal page. It took 3 tries but eventually the correct link stuck and didn't redirect me to the normal $49 offer page.


Wow yeah, that's weird.. In summary, if it doesn't show it, paste https://www.tivo.com/TLP4 into your URL bar again.. Eventually (after a couple of tries), it stays..

I'm not actually buying one.. but wow.. even though I'm a "cable person", ESPECIALLY since I have a Roamio & Premiere 4 that are cable only, $300 total for a 4 tuner DVR.. That's _finally_ where you'd call Tivos _cheap_ (in a good way).

Don't get me wrong, I think Tivos are worth it (even with the download to phone/ipad being horribly busted, and them removing features like podcast downloads WITH NO WARNING)... but they've always _SEEMED_ overpriced.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

mattack said:


> but they've always _SEEMED_ overpriced.


Careful there, them's fightin' words with many here (I agree with you--but boy, did I face the wrath when suggesting this earlier).  With the current deal, in contrast, I see the Roamio OTA with lifetime as a great deal (less than the price of a S2 1-tumer TiVo with lifetime 10 years ago)--TiVo perhaps trying to drive competitors, some new and responding to/perhaps undercutting TiVo's earlier pricing, out of the market?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I still wonder if anyone has actually tried calling TiVo and asking for the deal? 

It "feels" like this was an introductory deal that got into the wild befor TiVo was ready to announce it.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

bradleys said:


> I still wonder if anyone has actually tried calling TiVo and asking for the deal?
> 
> It "feels" like this was an introductory deal that got into the wild befor TiVo was ready to announce it.


I seem to remember that someone did try calling TiVo and asking about the deal and they were told that it was only available online.

I'm sure that by now TiVo is aware that people are ordering Roamios through this deal, and if they wanted to shut this down, they certainly could. But they seem fine with rolling with it. Whether or not they intended for it to get out this early or not is hard to speculate.


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## spaldingclan (Aug 22, 2012)

I think this deal is dead


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

HeatherA said:


> I'm in for one of these to replace the Premiere XL I'm using currently only as OTA. This deal is a no-brainer for us. It will be nice to have a 2nd Roamio in the house.


Ditto. This is the 5th anniversary of the Premier XL with lifetime upgrade offer for those who had bought the 3 year service with the TiVo HD in 2007. Whether intentional or not, this TiVo OTA with lifetime offer is the right timing to capture that existing customer demographic who now use their XL for OTA only.


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## confinoj (Apr 2, 2003)

spaldingclan said:


> I think this deal is dead


Not sure why but as others report you have to paste URL and try several times. Still works for me. I don't need one but I may get one for a friend as a house warming gift who is moving into a new apt and will be going OTA so I keep checking if it's still available.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

spaldingclan said:


> I think this deal is dead


It's still working for me.


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## JPA2825 (May 15, 2000)

How would the Roamio OTA interact with an S3?

I have 3 S3 TiVos (2 tuner) w/ PLS that I replaced with a Roamio Plus and 4 TiVo Minis. I plan to give the S3 TiVos to my kids.

Q: would the S3 TiVos be able to communicate with the Roamio OTA in such a manner to allow the OTA to record the OTA shows and the S3 w/ cablecard to focus on recording the cable shows? 

Depending on copyright flags, if I could access all shows from either box, that might be an ideal 2 TV / Room solution at a reasonable price.

Thoughts?


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## spaldingclan (Aug 22, 2012)

not working


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

spaldingclan said:


> not working


You need to use this link: https://www.tivo.com/TLP4 in Firefox or Chrome running an add blocker. I am running UBlock Origin in Chrome and Adblock Plus in Firefox

If you have issues checking out just try again.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

atmuscarella said:


> You need to use this link: https://www.tivo.com/TLP4 in Firefox or Chrome running an add blocker. I am running UBlock Origin in Chrome and Adblock Plus in Firefox
> 
> If you have issues checking out just try again.


I'm not seeing the deal there either, tried last night at home and this morning at work in IE and chrome.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

SeanC said:


> I'm not seeing the deal there either, tried last night at home and this morning at work in IE and chrome.


Do you have the UBlock Origin extension installed in Chrome? I get the $299 offer page in Chrome with the link but I am redirected in IE to the normal $50 purchase with $15/mo service offer page.


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

SeanC said:


> I'm not seeing the deal there either, tried last night at home and this morning at work in IE and chrome.


Using IE, I quickly hit cancel before the TLP4 page automatically forwarded to the normal webpage. Then I hit refresh and it stayed on the TLP4 page. Took a couple of tries though since you have to be fast.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

atmuscarella said:


> Do you have the UBlock Origin extension installed in Chrome? I get the $299 offer page in Chrome with the link but I am redirected in IE to the normal $50 purchase with $15/mo service offer page.


I did not, now I do, and now I see the deal.


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

No intention to buy, but tested just because of the redirect issues reported. I got the offer page after 6 attempts at the link. Using Firefox with no add-ons.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

That is really strange, try it a bunch of times and the deal should load. Does anybody think that TiVo actually is offering this deal now intentionally and TiVo wants its customers to go through a silly series of loading pages until it shows up?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Chris Gerhard said:


> That is really strange, try it a bunch of times and the deal should load. Does anybody think that TiVo actually is offering this deal now intentionally and TiVo wants its customers to go through a silly series of loading pages until it shows up?


Well, it is TiVo's website that they control, so they made the deal page intentionally. And by now they know people are using it to purchase the OTA at a discount. But TiVo clearly isn't promoting this deal, so it could be that TiVo just wants to keep this special deal somewhat hidden for now for whatever reason, so they don't really care if it takes several page loads for people to get it.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Well, it is TiVo's website that they control, so they made the deal page intentionally. And by now they know people are using it to purchase the OTA at a discount. But TiVo clearly isn't promoting this deal, so it could be that TiVo just wants to keep this special deal somewhat hidden for now for whatever reason, so they don't really care if it takes several page loads for people to get it.


It is still weird and not very professional. It "seems" like a program they have in the pipeline waiting for a point in time to open to a general audience.

The "deal" page has a redirect to the "standard" page and every now and again that redirect fails - allowing the consumer to purchase the Roamio under the new deal terms.

Weird and not a very good indication of the quality of their Web presentation.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> Yep, and that's the issue: TiVo put a nonstandard, unified port onto the Roamio standard and OTA rather than using standard composite and/or component connections, making all those extra RCA cables worthless and forcing consumers who need to use a composite connection to purchase a nonstandard "A/V composite breakout cable" from TiVo.


The TiVo Minis have the same port. I don't see the big deal. I wish all devices would do this. I'm sick of devices having all these analog ports on the back needlessly taking up space in a digital world.


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## JasonD (Mar 30, 2003)

Don't see how Tivo makes money off this deal. Wish they offered it for their cable tivos


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

JPA2825 said:


> How would the Roamio OTA interact with an S3?
> 
> I have 3 S3 TiVos (2 tuner) w/ PLS that I replaced with a Roamio Plus and 4 TiVo Minis. I plan to give the S3 TiVos to my kids.
> 
> ...


The copy protected cable shows that are recorded on the S3's would only be accessible on the S3 they are recorded on.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

JasonD said:


> Don't see how Tivo makes money off this deal. Wish they offered it for their cable tivos


The regular OTA deal is $50 for the hardware with a 1 year commitment for $15/mo and a $75 early termination fee. So one would assume that the break even point for the hardware is $125 (hardware + etf). So in that case they are getting an additional $175 for the lifetime service here. Considering they only get like $1/mo for MSO subscribers (i.e. RCN, etc...) I'm guessing the data doesn't cost that much. So it would appear that they can easily make a profit at this price point.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The deal is dead. They are redirecting at the server level now so there is no way to get to the deal page any more even using the tricks previously mentioned. I'm betting they got a big spike in orders from this. It was a hell of a deal.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> The regular OTA deal is $50 for the hardware with a 1 year commitment for $15/mo and a $75 early termination fee. So one would assume that the break even point for the hardware is $125 (hardware + etf). So in that case they are getting an additional $175 for the lifetime service here. Considering they only get like $1/mo for MSO subscribers (i.e. RCN, etc...) I'm guessing the data doesn't cost that much. So it would appear that they can easily make a profit at this price point.


I don't believe for a second this box can be manufactured, warranty and customer service provided for $125, especially when either shipping or retailer profits have to be included. My guess is $200 is breakeven for the box. Receiving an additional $100 for a total of $300 for the box with lifetime, if that is any better than breakeven, I would be very surprised. What benefits accrue to the company for the additional subscriptions aren't clear to me but the company can't survive at these margins.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

Chris Gerhard said:


> I don't believe for a second this box can be manufactured, warranty and customer service provided for $125....


Most Blu-ray streamers are $100 or less retail so it does not seem that far fetched.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

jth tv said:


> Most Blu-ray streamers are $100 or less retail so it does not seem that far fetched.


BD streamers aren't nearly as involved as a TiVo. BD players are also stand alone - they have no need to connect to the mother ship. Rare software updates - especially from the manufacturer.

That isn't a great comparison.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

They stream right ?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The TiVo hardware is a lot more complex, and expensive, then a typical BD player. But $125 for manufacturing costs, don't seem to far fetched when you consider that Amazon sells the Roamio Basic for $145 and TiVo has said they sell that one at cost.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

jth tv said:


> Most Blu-ray streamers are $100 or less retail so it does not seem that far fetched.


No hard drive, no tuners, no antenna and cable inputs, less complicated motherboards and software. Blu-ray players are manufactured in the tens of millions each year and benefit from economy of scale, TiVos are not mass produced in that manner. The cheap Blu-ray players are throw away devices, cheaply made, TiVo can't do that either. The Blu-ray players I own are $400 to $500, Oppo models, those can't compete on price with the mass market Blu-ray players.


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

One reputable teardown study estimated the Roamio Plus to have $170 cost of materials.

The big unknowns in my mind, is the cost of guide data and cost of support. I estimate the cost of guide data to be negligible, considering most other manufacturers include lifetime guide data. (WMC, Silicondust)


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## b-ball-fanatic (Aug 5, 2003)

Chris Gerhard said:


> No hard drive, no tuners, no antenna and cable inputs, less complicated motherboards and software. Blu-ray players are manufactured in the tens of millions each year and benefit from economy of scale, TiVos are not mass produced in that manner. *The cheap Blu-ray players are throw away devices, cheaply made, TiVo can't do that either.*


I respectfully disagree.... Much as I like my TiVos and have enjoyed using them for the past 15 years or so, I think they are now, definitely, "throw away devices." The Roamios look and feel like the cheap hardware that they are, clearly lacking the build quality of earlier TiVo models. TiVo doesn't even bother with repairs anymore, as it's cheaper to just send a replacement and cycle them through a refurb service. If that crappy little fan fails under warranty, they actually replace the whole DVR. What does _that _tell you?

Frankly , I'd have put $125 at the _high _end for estimated cost, considering they likely get the HDDs at a fraction of what we pay for them. But Dan203's analysis makes sense. So selling at $299, I think they still made a tidy profit with that deal.


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## crxrocks (Mar 30, 2004)

b-ball-fanatic said:


> Frankly , I'd have put $125 at the _high _end for estimated cost, considering they likely get the HDDs at a fraction of what we pay for them. But Dan203's analysis makes sense. So selling at $299, I think they still made a tidy profit with that deal.


I hope they bring back the deal! I didn't jump fast enough.


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## b-ball-fanatic (Aug 5, 2003)

Feature differences aside, would there be any reason to expect _OTA performance_ differences between the Roamio and a Premiere? Or to put it in real usage terms....if I set the two units up to get identical reception and record the same football game, should I expect the PQ and recording characteristics to be identical?


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## swarto112 (Sep 10, 2012)

I missed OTA deal and they had no authority at the sales center to push it thru but I got a regular roamio w/ lifetime for $350 instead. It was worth the few extra bucks. Cut the cord last yr and my premiere xl4, stream and mini been collecting dust whiletheold trusty HD XL been shouldering the weight. Now I can retire hd xl and sell the premiere for more than I paid for the roamio


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

b-ball-fanatic said:


> I respectfully disagree.... Much as I like my TiVos and have enjoyed using them for the past 15 years or so, I think they are now, definitely, "throw away devices." The Roamios look and feel like the cheap hardware that they are, clearly lacking the build quality of earlier TiVo models. TiVo doesn't even bother with repairs anymore, as it's cheaper to just send a replacement and cycle them through a refurb service. If that crappy little fan fails under warranty, they actually replace the whole DVR. What does _that _tell you?
> 
> Frankly , I'd have put $125 at the _high _end for estimated cost, considering they likely get the HDDs at a fraction of what we pay for them. But Dan203's analysis makes sense. So selling at $299, I think they still made a tidy profit with that deal.


I can't say whether or not the Roamio models can be run 24 hours a day for many years like previous models have been consistently capable of, but my assumption is that will be shown to be the case, we won't know for years. If a base TiVo Roamio or Roamio OTA can be manufactured and sold at breakeven for $125, I would be very surprised. Dan offered no analysis regarding TiVo manufacturing and distribution cost for his statement and your comparison to Blu-ray players means nothing to me also. What is clear, there are no comparable products from other companies that would indicate $125 is a breakeven point, I consider the claim nonsense.

Historically TiVo has lost money on the hardware, as shown by TiVo financial results, I expect we will see reports regarding the base Roamio and Roamio OTA in the near future that indicate the same. That the Roamio Plus and Roamio Pro are being sold at a profit is not disputed.

If TiVo could sell the Roamio OTA with lifetime at $300 for a tidy profit, I am sure the company would be doing exactly that and it isn't. The couple day test, for whatever reason it happened, probably shows there is demand. I don't know the reason but getting new subscribers had to be part of the reason, maybe advertising revenue requirements necessitated adding subscribers, maybe it was just a fact gathering test. Subscriber numbers have been reported to be low, unacceptably low, so additional subscribers, even at no profit may have played a part. Maybe excess inventory of the Roamio OTA was the reason.


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## b-ball-fanatic (Aug 5, 2003)

I didn't say anything about blu-ray players, but okay. You can state your opinion that TiVo is somehow very different different from most other electronics manufacturers. Apparently that's your perception....it's all good. But certainty, and dismissal of other views as nonsense, doesn't elevate opinion to fact.


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## spaldingclan (Aug 22, 2012)

swarto112 said:


> I missed OTA deal and they had no authority at the sales center to push it thru but I got a regular roamio w/ lifetime for $350 instead. It was worth the few extra bucks. Cut the cord last yr and my premiere xl4, stream and mini been collecting dust whiletheold trusty HD XL been shouldering the weight. Now I can retire hd xl and sell the premiere for more than I paid for the roamio


How'd you get a reg for $350 with lifetime? What'd you ask for?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Chris Gerhard said:


> I can't say whether or not the Roamio models can be run 24 hours a day for many years like previous models have been consistently capable of, but my assumption is that will be shown to be the case, we won't know for years.


I've had my Roamio Pro since day 1, which was August 2013. So it's almost 2 years old now and still works just fine.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

b-ball-fanatic said:


> I respectfully disagree.... Much as I like my TiVos and have enjoyed using them for the past 15 years or so, I think they are now, definitely, "throw away devices."


"Throw away" indicates something is either not fixable or it is not worth fixing it. The reality is everything becomes a "throw away device" at some point. But TiVo does recondition (fix) defective units and it is certainly possible for users to fix OTA Roamios that need new hard drives or power supplies. So I would not call them a "throw away device" if that is implying they are either not fixable or never worth fixing.



b-ball-fanatic said:


> The Roamios look and feel like the cheap hardware that they are, clearly lacking the build quality of earlier TiVo models.


 Well "look and feel" are opinions items and everyone can have any opinion they want. But what data (facts) do you have that supports poor build quality or cheap hardware (whatever that means)?



b-ball-fanatic said:


> TiVo doesn't even bother with repairs anymore, as it's cheaper to just send a replacement and cycle them through a refurb service. If that crappy little fan fails under warranty, they actually replace the whole DVR. What does _that _tell you? ...


For the almost 10 years I have owned TiVos, TiVo has never repaired and return a unit, they have always sent a replacement.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

atmuscarella said:


> "Throw away" indicates something is either not fixable or it is not worth fixing it. The reality is everything becomes a "throw away device" at some point. But TiVo does recondition (fix) defective units and it is certainly possible for users to fix OTA Roamios that need new hard drives or power supplies. So I would not call them a "throw away device" if that is implying they are either not fixable or never worth fixing.


The Roamio is even less of a "throw away device" then the older units. They support simple drop in HDD replacement, so anyone with enough skills to swap the HDD with a new blank one can fix any sort of HDD issue. Also on the Roamio OTA the power supply is a simple brick (aka wall wart) which can be replaced for $7 from TiVo. And the Plus/Pro has the same modular power supply that the older units had and can be replaced relatively easily with a new one from someone like Weaknees. The only issue that can't be fixed is a mobo failure. And even that can potentially if you know how to do surface mount soldering.


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## b-ball-fanatic (Aug 5, 2003)

atmuscarella said:


> "Throw away" indicates something is either not fixable or it is not worth fixing it. The reality is everything becomes a "throw away device" at some point. But TiVo does recondition (fix) defective units and it is certainly possible for users to fix OTA Roamios that need new hard drives or power supplies. So I would not call them a "throw away device" if that is implying they are either not fixable or never worth fixing.


You're absolutely right.....it was a poor choice of terms. I guess I don't know a specific name for those consumer electronics designed, built, and sold with planned obsolescence. Which is what I really meant. By analogy, every time I buy a new iPhone, both Apple and I know that it's probably not an item I'll use until it fails and dies....much more likely, I'll replace it with the next iPhone in 2-3 years. Just like millions upon millions of other buyers. That's their business model, and it's been so extraordinarily lucrative that I think many other CE companies strive to replicate it wherever they can.

So yeah, by "throw away," I meant electronics that Joe Consumer is more likely to "upgrade," rather than fix and maintain as subsequent generations come along with new options and features. But the term suggests "discarding," so I should have been more clear.



> Well "look and feel" are opinions items and everyone can have any opinion they want. But what data (facts) do you have that supports poor build quality or cheap hardware (whatever that means)?


Right again...."look and feel"_ are _ largely subjective assessments. I've disassembled/upgraded/etc about 4-5 generations of TiVos, and I feel the materials and construction are simply not as robust in newer models as in the old. It's the exact same trend I see in most other consumer electronics products I've been buying/using/modifying for the past 30 years...an inexorable push toward cheaper, more generic, more universal components and faster (often sloppier) factory production. These kinds of products are typically manufactured in whatever Chinese factories submit the lowest bids.

Bottom line....I think TiVo is just trying to survive and compete, like everybody else; they've been losing subscribers for years. Obviously, they want more customers, but I think their moves in recent years also suggest a strategy focused on better monetizing their existing customer base. More frequent "hardware turnover" is just one facet of that effort.


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

Made in Juarez, Mexico.
Shop [north] American!

PS. Designed in California.


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## b-ball-fanatic (Aug 5, 2003)

haha...._that's_ a bit of a stretch!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I wish more companies would build stuff in Mexico rather then China. It would help our immigration problem if there were better jobs south of the border and it would save a sh*t ton of fuel shipping stuff a couple thousand miles by truck rather then half way around the world on a ship.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> I wish more companies would build stuff in Mexico rather then China. It would help our immigration problem if there were better jobs south of the border and it would save a sh*t ton of fuel shipping stuff a couple thousand miles by truck rather then half way around the world on a ship.


You're forgetting the added mandatory Drug Cartel Tax though!


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> I wish more companies would build stuff in Mexico rather then China. It would help our immigration problem if there were better jobs south of the border and it would save a sh*t ton of fuel shipping stuff a couple thousand miles by truck rather then half way around the world on a ship.


Then who will pick our Grapes?

But seriously, I have Fords built in Mejico and The Divided States of America (in Dogma we trust), and the Michigan built cars are better (Mustang and Focus vs. Fiesta and Fusion).

Too many Speedy Gonzalez's overlooking things or Slow Poke Rodriguez's taking forever


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

foghorn2 said:


> Then who will pick our Grapes?
> 
> But seriously, I have Fords built in Mejico and The Divided States of America (in Dogma we trust), and the Michigan built cars are better (Mustang and Focus vs. Fiesta and Fusion).
> 
> Too many Speedy Gonzalez's overlooking things or Slow Poke Rodriguez's taking forever


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Ford also now builds the Fusion in Michigan (at FRAP along with the Mustang). That's in addition to Fusion production in Mexico however.


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## b-ball-fanatic (Aug 5, 2003)

Wow, this went seriously off the rails......

-----------------

Anyway, I posed a question here a couple days ago, so just in case it was lost in the shuffle: Any reason to expect any differences between the Roamio's and Premiere's OTA function or performance? 

I record, archive, and burn-to-disc a lot of football games every season, and I think I'm going to start using OTA for that, rather than cable. After reading that OTA offers better PQ, especially for sports (being uncompressed, I guess), I've been comparing some soccer and golf lately and do indeed see a noticeable difference. So now I'm just wondering if a Roamio OTA can offer any further advantage (over my Premiere). Not features differences...I know what those are...but just OTA performance.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Roamio has better OTA tuners then Premiere. Most people say they get better signals, and some channels they couldn't previously get, when upgrading from Premiere to Roamio.


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## b-ball-fanatic (Aug 5, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> Roamio has better OTA tuners then Premiere. Most people say they get better signals, and some channels they couldn't previously get, when upgrading from Premiere to Roamio.


Cool! Thanks for the reply....looks like I might need a new Roamio before September!


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Chris Gerhard said:


> I can't say whether or not the Roamio models can be run 24 hours a day for many years like previous models have been consistently capable of, but my assumption is that will be shown to be the case, we won't know for years. If a base TiVo Roamio or Roamio OTA can be manufactured and sold at breakeven for $125, I would be very surprised. D..............


I figure if two Hitachi, five platter, 1TB drives can run in two separate Series 3 TiVos for over eight years, 24/7. Then the WD AV drives should easily be able to last for several years.

My girlfriend has two of my S3 boxes that I had purchased in 2006. It ran 24/7 since putting in the first 1TB drive that was available back in 2007. A 5 platter Hitachi drive that ran very, very hot. And they are still running and working great for my GF recording OTA content.

My Roamio Pro has been running fine since September 2013. Although hopefully this weekend I will be replacing the 3TB drive with a 5TB WD Red drive. If I get it delivered on Friday.


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## True Colors (Oct 19, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> The biggest difference between the Premiere and the Roamio OTA is that the OTA can ONLY do OTA, *the Premiere could do cable, OTA or both*. The Roamio has 2 more tuners, most likely more HDD space (unless you have Premiere XL), has better OTA tuners, faster CPU for apps, and a smaller form factor with external power brick instead of internal power supply.


This is the main reason that I want to keep one of my Tivo premieres. I love the ability to record OTA and cable at the same time.

I do understand that Tivo made a judgment call that not many people cared about this when they removed this capability from the Roamio family of products. But I wish they had at least one product somewhere in the Roamio lineup which could do OTA plus cable at the same time.

TC


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

True Colors said:


> This is the main reason that I want to keep one of my Tivo premieres. I love the ability to record OTA and cable at the same time.
> 
> I do understand that Tivo made a judgment call that not many people cared about this when they removed this capability from the Roamio family of products. But I wish they had at least one product somewhere in the Roamio lineup which could do OTA plus cable at the same time.
> 
> TC


Kind of difficult when there are no chips to support it. They are limited to the Premiere configuration where you only have two tuners and they can be OTA, cable, or a combination. Or like the current configuration where you can use all four tuners but can only be all OTA or all cable.

Sure I would love to have a box that could use four tuners and be either OTA, cable, or a combination. But having only two tuners means less things to record and needing more boxes and more cable cards. Which for me is $5 for each cable card. I like my current solution of having a Roamio Pro for cable with six tuners and a Roamio Basic with four tuners for OTA. Which can also be used in a pinch with cable if something happens to my Roamio Pro.


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