# American Idol 3/28/2007 "Results" *spoilers*



## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Results time.. I'm pretty sure its safe to say Sanjaya is safe.. Oh boy look at Seacrest... 

Results time..

Blake is safe
Lakisha is safe
Phil is in the bottom 3..
Melinda is safe..
Chris Richardson is safe.
Sanjaya is safe
Haley is in the bottom 3..
Jordin is safe..

Gina and Chris Sligh are undecided so far.

Halftime show-----------------with Gwen Steffani.

More results...

Chris Sligh in the bottom 3.

Phil, Haley and Chris S. 

Phil is safe...

Chris and Haley...

Simon thinks its bye bye Curly..

and he was right...

Legs are safe for another week!!!!!!!!


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

Are they trying to make Sanjayjay into a pop icon?


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## DLL66 (Oct 21, 2002)

Sanjaya will need big time therapy once the show is over!!!  How can any body stand that big cheese smile of his????? :down:


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## DUSlider (Apr 29, 2005)

William Hung and Hollywood Tans?????


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## splendid (Sep 1, 2005)

DLL66 said:


> Sanjaya will need big time therapy once the show is over!!!  How can any body stand that big cheese smile of his????? :down:


I like it. :up:


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

splendid said:


> I like it. :up:


Maybe you can join him in therapy!


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## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

splendid said:


> I like it. :up:


I enjoy people looking like they just smoked wet, as well.

:up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:


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## DLL66 (Oct 21, 2002)

Gwen Stefani!!!!!!!!!!! :up:


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## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

Gwen sounded like crap there for a second, but has come back.

All she needs to do now is try to not look like _Body of Evidence_ Madonna, and we'll be OK.

I actually listened to this song at work on my radio at my desk and another officer said outloud, "What the _f---_ are you listening to, dude?"


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Gwen looks great but she's even cuter when without all the makeup.


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## splendid (Sep 1, 2005)

Kamakzie said:


> Maybe you can join him in therapy!


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## DLL66 (Oct 21, 2002)

Another week to gawk over Haley's legs!!! Outstanding!!!! :up:


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

I hate that Randy and Paula will never answer the "who do you think is going home?" question, have some balls and don't be such candy asses.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Just tell me so I don't have to watch, was Chris Sligh sent home?


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## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

We have suceeded in our mission one more week.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Spoiler



Tony Bennett


 next week, more torch songs 

And Chris still can't stay on the beat.


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## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

Gunnyman said:


> Just tell me so I don't have to watch, was Chris Sligh sent home?


Yes. Thank God, yes.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

DLL66 said:


> Another week to gawk over Haley's legs!!! Outstanding!!!! :up:


 :up: :up:


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Gunnyman said:


> Just tell me so I don't have to watch, was Chris Sligh sent home?


yup, no more sideshow bob/jack osborne spawn.


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## DLL66 (Oct 21, 2002)

RegBarc said:


> We have suceeded in our mission one more week.


Hhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmm............not my mission.............


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Langree said:


> And Chris still can't stay on the beat.


He was actually considerably better at hitting the beat tonight.


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## Jesda (Feb 12, 2005)

Yay Legs!!!!


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## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

Just downloaded some Cyndi Lauper for the first time ever. I heart Haley.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Oh well Local Favorite gone I may still watch.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

So who are Lakisha and Melinda going to sing next week? Ella Fitzgerald? Possibly.

Or, I bet Aretha Franklin met Tony Bennett once, so they'll be able to sing one of her songs.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Got cut off just after stefani's performance. Didn't even get to see chris in the bottom three. I'm glad he's gone... I was sick of him.

Gwen was ok... that song is not so great, and she looked better last night.

Did phil owe chris $50 because they made a bet while standing in the middle of the stage?


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

Somewhere there's a very angry little midget right now.

*Buzz*


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

That was fairly predictable, which is perhaps a good thing.

Alright...

Next week's bottom three is Haley, Phil and Sanjaya. I think legs might be leaving us.


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## bluetex (Apr 24, 2005)

Oh mercy. Another week of the teenage train wreck.

I'll bet Simon's wishing he let Sanjysis on rather than him at this point. At least she woulda been gone in the path from 24 to 12.

I'm not *THAT* surprised that Chris S took the hook tonight. He hasn't been stepping up his game, and last night's butchery of a Police hit proves that Sting is just as talented as I have always believed. (I guess only Eddie Murphy can take him on with any success)

Gwen? Looked great -- I really enjoyed her bit (muted).


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## willbhome (Aug 28, 2002)

spikedavis said:


> Somewhere there's a very angry little midget right now.
> *Buzz*


 :up: :up: :up:


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## willbhome (Aug 28, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> That was fairly predictable, which is perhaps a good thing.
> 
> Alright...
> 
> Next week's bottom three is Haley, Phil and Sanjaya. I think legs might be leaving us.


I don't think Sanjaya's going to be in the bottom three until there are only five left.


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## willbhome (Aug 28, 2002)

RegBarc said:


> We have suceeded in our mission one more week.


YESS!!!


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## katbug (Oct 3, 2003)

Ok, am I the only one who got the feeling that Gwen was lip-synching (other than my hubby who thought the same thing)? Something was way off.

I was relieved when Ryan let Phil go back...I was fine with Chris or Haley going, but knew it would be Chris based on the guys' reactions to her on this board, lol.


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

I thought she was too.. especially when the song started.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Well, I went back and rewatched the performance. It doesn't look at all like she's lipsynching to me.


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

Like someone said earlier-she's tolerable with the mute on.


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

Chris has a nice tone to his voice but geez he looked like he was bored all the time. His slacker attitude made it seem like he was mailing it in instead of actually trying to win.


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## justapixel (Sep 27, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> So who are Lakisha and Melinda going to sing next week? Ella Fitzgerald? Possibly.
> 
> Or, I bet Aretha Franklin met Tony Bennett once, so they'll be able to sing one of her songs.


ROFLMAO 

Hey, maybe Blake can turn a Tony Bennett song into hip hop. 

What will Sanjaya's Tony Bennett hair look like?

I bet William Hung wish it was a few seasons later. What paltry fame and fortune he got from being made fun of two years ago is nothing compared to what would hapen now, with the VFTW folks behind him. 

All I have to say about this whole situation is:

Dance, clowns. Dance.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

justapixel said:


> Hey, maybe Blake can turn a Tony Bennett song into hip hop.


"Fly Me to the Moon" with a riff in the middle. Bet me.


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

willbhome said:


> I don't think Sanjaya's going to be in the bottom three until there are only five left.


I predict he'll be there down to the bitter end.

Will Simon really quit if he wins?


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

justapixel said:


> ROFLMAO
> 
> Hey, maybe Blake can turn a Tony Bennett song into hip hop.
> 
> ...


William still made a few CD's though.


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Raj said:


> I predict he'll be there down to the bitter end.
> 
> Will Simon really quit if he wins?


Let's hope so. Then the show will have to end and we can all get back to our regularly scheduled lives.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

katbug said:


> Ok, am I the only one who got the feeling that Gwen was lip-synching (other than my hubby who thought the same thing)? Something was way off.
> 
> I was relieved when Ryan let Phil go back...I was fine with Chris or Haley going, but knew it would be Chris based on the guys' reactions to her on this board, lol.


Before she even came out I assume she'd lip sync. This is perhaps the biggest audience she's ever had. No way she'd leave that up to chance.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I thought she sounded suspiciously good and for that reason was lip syncing, but looking at her lips it wasn't obvious. I Don't have any idea what uncdrew is talking about, though. She sings live very often on talk shows and in concerts... just because AI has 2-3x as many viewers as those other shows doesn't make me think she would want to lip sync. In fact I would think the opposite since the whole point of her appearance is (somewhat anyway) to "show em how it's done"


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## itsmeitsmeitsme (Nov 13, 2003)

RegBarc said:


> Gwen sounded like crap there for a second, but has come back.
> 
> All she needs to do now is try to not look like _Body of Evidence_ Madonna, and we'll be OK.
> 
> I actually listened to this song at work on my radio at my desk and another officer said outloud, "What the _f---_ are you listening to, dude?"


He actually said "dude"?


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

katbug said:


> Ok, am I the only one who got the feeling that Gwen was lip-synching (other than my hubby who thought the same thing)? Something was way off.


katbug, you are . . . . . . . . *NOT* the only one who thought that! [/ryan seacrest]

I was thinking the whole time she was singing (until I hit FF), "do all of these 'mentors' lip-synch their 'live' performances??? I never noticed that before". I never got the feeling that those performances were lip-synched (and don't believe they are), but Gwen's last night - _definitely_ looked that way to me.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

You know.....I continue to think Gina could be a darkhorse in this whole thing. IMHO, she did I'll Stand by You as good as The Pretenders did it. And I like her voice better than Chrissy Hynde's.


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

Why oh Why can't Sanjaya go home?????????? ARG!

Not surprised about Chris Sligh, was hoping he would get it together, but he didn't. Oh well!


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## stiffi (Jun 14, 2006)

uncdrew said:


> This is perhaps the biggest audience she's ever had.


What? No Doubt has performed at the Super Bowl!


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

I got a great laugh out of Seacrest wearing his Sanjaya wig. 

Clearly, Sanjaya is a force to be reckoned with. Glad to see he wasn't in the bottom three this week!


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## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

Sadara said:


> Why oh Why can't Sanjaya go home?????????? ARG!


The first rule of Project Mayhem is do not talk about Project Mayhem.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Skittles said:


> I got a great laugh out of Seacrest wearing his Sanjaya wig.
> 
> Clearly, Sanjaya is a force to be reckoned with. Glad to see he wasn't in the bottom three this week!


and he won't be... EVAR!!!!
/Evil Laugh


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

I think the hair added more fuel to the "Ryan Seacrest is gay" rumors.


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

Raj said:


> I think the hair added more fuel to the "Ryan Seacrest is gay" rumors.


Actually, I think it took fuel off of that fire. No self respecting homosexual would be caught dead in a wig like that.

The gay community has to draw a line somewhere, and clearly, that line is the 'Mo Fro worn by Richard Simmons.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

Skittles said:


> Actually, I think it took fuel off of that fire. No self respecting homosexual would be caught dead in a wig like that.
> 
> The gay community has to draw a line somewhere, and clearly, that line is the 'Mo Fro worn by Richard Simmons.


Doesn't that line vary by locale?


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

Skittles said:


> Actually, I think it took fuel off of that fire. No self respecting homosexual would be caught dead in a wig like that.
> 
> The gay community has to draw a line somewhere, and clearly, that line is the 'Mo Fro worn by Richard Simmons.


Well, I dunno, but as you know, the non-gay community will sometimes take a stereotype and run with it. It doesn't have to be true, it just has to be _juicy_.

But among the gay community, they're probably saying, "nah, he aint one of us, not with that hair."


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## headytiger (Oct 17, 2003)

This is my first season watching. Why does Ryan Seacrest still have a job? A freaking tree has better hosting skills.


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## r-u-kidding-me (Feb 19, 2007)

uncdrew said:


> That was fairly predictable, which is perhaps a good thing.
> 
> Alright...
> 
> Next week's bottom three is Haley, Phil and Sanjaya. I think legs might be leaving us.


Holy $4it....guess we don't even need to bother with Tuesdays show...let's just get to the 30 min results and forego the singing and I can ff and watch 5 mins and have the rest of my life.

I realize there is a certain 'pecking' order based on many factors and that we can all probably come close to mapping out how it will go, within reason. I like to think that the 'intelligent' public (omits some on here), would actually base some of their opinions on actual talent and wait until they actually sing. It is possible to do better or worse, in some cases.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Chris R proves your point r u kidding. In the bottom two one week, good performance, not in the bottom three the next week.


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## r-u-kidding-me (Feb 19, 2007)

jlb said:


> You know.....I continue to think Gina could be a darkhorse in this whole thing. IMHO, she did I'll Stand by You as good as The Pretenders did it. And I like her voice better than Chrissy Hynde's.


Hmmm - a big Storm Large and the Balls supporter? I can see you voicing this. Altho, Dilana was leaps and bounds better, I surely would not go out and say Gina was even in the same league as Hynde. Now, you are welcome to your opinion, but my guess is (as in the Storm case), you are swayed by the 'younger girl' look (Gina vs Hynde). I thought Gina sounded great, but a 'darkhorse'? Not buying!


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## keirgrey (Nov 20, 2001)

Sadara said:


> Why oh Why can't Sanjaya go home?????????? ARG!


This reaction is why he didn't go home.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

Kamakzie said:


> Gwen looks great but she's even cuter when without all the makeup.


100% Agreement. I didn't realize how hot she really is. I was never one for the french prostitute makeup look anyway.

She looks like she is 17 years old. How old is she anyway? Why did she abandon her childhood friends for a solo career?


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

jlb said:


> You know.....I continue to think Gina could be a darkhorse in this whole thing. IMHO, she did I'll Stand by You as good as The Pretenders did it. And I like her voice better than Chrissy Hynde's.


She kinda reminds me of Nena. I'd like to see her to 99 Luft Balloons or Anytime Anywhere Anyplace.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Magister said:


> 100% Agreement. I didn't realize how hot she really is. I was never one for the french prostitute makeup look anyway.
> 
> She looks like she is 17 years old. How old is she anyway? Why did she abandon her childhood friends for a solo career?


She is 37.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

all the AI contestants hate sanjaya.

i bet he is in the house in his room by himself the whole time.


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## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

RegBarc said:


> I actually listened to this song at work on my radio at my desk and another officer said outloud, "What the _f---_ are you listening to, dude?"


ROFLAARP! So what did your co-worker say when he heard you listening to Cyndi Lauper?


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Well, I agreed 100% with the bottom three and the results.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

r-u-kidding-me said:


> I realize there is a certain 'pecking' order based on many factors and that we can all probably come close to mapping out how it will go, within reason. I like to think that the *'intelligent' public (omits some on here)*, would actually base some of their opinions on actual talent and wait until they actually sing. It is possible to do better or worse, in some cases.




The intelligent public, IMO, is a minority already. And most of them probably don't watch much reality TV. Perhaps Stephen Hawking tunes in, I'm not sure. 

Hard to say, I suppose, but I'm guessing most people have picked their favorites and won't change them much, regardless of week-to-week performances. And yeah, that's pretty lame in some regards. Past performances can help carry you through a bad week, and of course family members and friends would logically vote for their singer no matter what.

Haley's in trouble... that's all I'm saying. And while that's obvious, I'll of course still watch the performances. It's American _Idol_, and thus should in some sense be a popularity contest.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> I thought she sounded suspiciously good and for that reason was lip syncing, but looking at her lips it wasn't obvious. I Don't have any idea what uncdrew is talking about, though. She sings live very often on talk shows and in concerts... just because AI has 2-3x as many viewers as those other shows doesn't make me think she would want to lip sync. In fact I would think the opposite since the whole point of her appearance is (somewhat anyway) to "show em how it's done"




The whole point, of course, was to get publicity for her upcoming tour. They pimped that pretty hard.

If she did or didn't lip sync, I'm no expert. I'm just saying that it went through my head that she would. We didn't even question Lulu or Pickler or the other guest performers, but it wasn't just me questioning Gwen. While I just thought it might be possible and likely (before I even watched her), others came to that conclusion after seeing her "sing".


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## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

r-u-kidding-me said:


> ... I like to think that the 'intelligent' public (omits some on here), would actually base some of their opinions on actual talent and wait until they actually sing. It is possible to do better or worse, in some cases.


Silly rabbit. The intelligent public only watches Studio 60 and sitcoms with no laugh track. No way any of them would lower themselves to watch AI.


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## 979hkz (Jul 11, 2006)

I'm a huge gwen stefani fan.

And I missed the last two night's of idol. Tuesday because of a cable outage, and last night because tuesday's cable outage took out the cable box. I had other alternatives, but unfortunately forgot to use them.

Very bummed.


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## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

979hkz said:


> I'm a huge gwen stefani fan.
> 
> And I missed the last two night's of idol. Tuesday because of a cable outage, and last night because tuesday's cable outage took out the cable box. I had other alternatives, but unfortunately forgot to use them.
> 
> Very bummed.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

She wasn't lip-syncing.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Stefani sounded horrible. Any of the contestants would do a better job.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

uncdrew said:


> We didn't even question Lulu or Pickler or the other guest performers


It was pretty obvious that Diana Ross was NOT lip-syncing.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Just watched the Youtube video, can't really tell visually if she is lip-synching because the video is of poor quality. Since she sounded like utter ass at the beginning of the song I certainly hope that wasn't a studio produced track that she was synching to.


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## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

PJO1966 said:


> She wasn't lip-syncing.


I don't think so, either. If she was, it certainly wasn't to the version that's played on the radio.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Skittles said:


> No *self respecting* homosexual would be caught dead in a wig like that.


I think you answered the issue without even knowing it.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

jlb said:


> You know.....I continue to think Gina could be a darkhorse in this whole thing. IMHO, she did I'll Stand by You as good as The Pretenders did it. And I like her voice better than Chrissy Hynde's.


I'm not sure about the whole dark horse thing, but I think she did an amazing job with that song. It was easily, by far and away, the best peformance of the night.

This is the type of moment I love in the show - when a performer finds a perfect song and style of music for them, particularly if it's one they hadn't considered doing before the show. It's happened a few times before... it sort of happened when Carrie Underwood performed Heart, and it sort of happened when Josh Gracin from season 2 finally gave up and countrified everything because it was something he did well.

I think she could also do a pretty good job with Pink as well; I'd also liked to have heard her do No Doubt's "Don't Speak."


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## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

KRS said:


> ROFLAARP! So what did your co-worker say when he heard you listening to Cyndi Lauper?


Thanks for reminding me. I forgot my iPod this morning at home, and the same officer is at court, so I not only can't listen to Cyndi, I also have no one to torment.

Tomorrow, however, is a really lite day to begin with so I can be at my desk all day, looping "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun".


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

wasn't lip synching responsible for ending the careers of MIlli Vanilli?  With that beng said, wouldn't a mediocre live performance (or even a terrible one) be much less risky than getting caught lip synching? Or is it acceptable now?


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## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

goblue97 said:


> wasn't lip synching responsible for ending the careers of MIlli Vanilli?  With that beng said, wouldn't a mediocre live performance (or even a terrible one) be much less risky than getting caught lip synching? Or is it acceptable now?


I have no idea how old you are, but did you ever watch American Bandstand or Solid Gold? Nobody that I ever saw performed live on those shows.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

goblue97 said:


> wasn't lip synching responsible for ending the careers of MIlli Vanilli?  With that beng said, wouldn't a mediocre live performance (or even a terrible one) be much less risky than getting caught lip synching? Or is it acceptable now?


Actually Milli Vanilli was lip syncing to other peoples voices, not their own. Singers will still lip sync to their own vocal tracks under certain situations.


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## deezel629 (May 30, 2006)

I wasn't surprised by Curly going home. I thought his performance was the worst since Hollywood Week by anyone (including ALL of Sanjaya's performances). I mean, Sting is rolling over in his grave and he ain't even dead yet. 

I love the train wreck that is Sanjaya. I just can't look away. I vote for Gina every week. If (when) she gets voted off, I will probably start voting for Sanjaya (unless that gorgeous specimen of a woman Hailey is still around then).


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

DougF said:


> I have no idea how old you are, but did you ever watch American Bandstand or Solid Gold? Nobody that I ever saw performed live on those shows.


soul train was the king of lipsynch performances


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Langree said:


> Actually Milli Vanilli was lip syncing to other peoples voices, not their own. Singers will still lip sync to their own vocal tracks under certain situations.


Agreed.

For instance, Super Bowl halftime performances. Everything is choreographed to the second, and if there's a technical difficulty with the sound system (like a microphone on stage dying) they don't have the luxury to stop until the mic is fixed, like they might be able to during a concert. As a result, they'll really be singing on stage, but also synchronized to a pre-recorded performance. If something happens, the sound operator will almost immediately ramp up the pre-recorded vocal, and the audience is often unaware.

I'm sure they probably do the same thing here on Idol, since they have exactly a half hour for the show and cannot go over... so they have to get it right the first time.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

Langree said:


> Actually Milli Vanilli was lip syncing to other peoples voices, not their own. Singers will still lip sync to their own vocal tracks under certain situations.


6 or 7 years ago, howard stern got hold of some tape of enrique iglesias, singing bailamos at some concert... and it was HORRIBLE. way off tune, screaming, like he didn't even care.

well, enrique heard about it and called in. it turns out, the audience was listening to a prerecorded enrique, and his mike was off, so he was just singing along so his lips would match, and he was fooling around. another mike was somehow recording his voice, but the audience was hearing the real prerecorded song. he came in studio the next week to sing it live in order to prove he could sing.

pretty funny.


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## r-u-kidding-me (Feb 19, 2007)

DougF said:


> I have no idea how old you are, but did you ever watch American Bandstand or Solid Gold? Nobody that I ever saw performed live on those shows.


one logical guess? U of M grad - 1997....making the age roughly 31. Or possibly 10 yo and just a big UM fan. This being the case, I remember Solid Gold in the very early 80's - like 1980. Based on my logical theory of a UM grad, would make him roughly 5 years old. I doubt he would remember that....and I doubt his mom would let him watch the $lutty dancers....altho....man, I dug the short, shiney, gold shorts and all the spandex 

FWIW - I thought at first she was syncing...had to ask my teen son (as he is in 'touch' with this type of music). He said no. Then I wondered if she was syncing to a track made just for syncing too....who knows. Either way...not too impressed.


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## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

bruinfan said:


> 6 or 7 years ago, howard stern got hold of some tape of enrique iglesias, singing bailamos at some concert... and it was HORRIBLE. way off tune, screaming, like he didn't even care.
> 
> well, enrique heard about it and called in. it turns out, the audience was listening to a prerecorded enrique, and his mike was off, so he was just singing along so his lips would match, and he was fooling around. another mike was somehow recording his voice, but the audience was hearing the real prerecorded song. he came in studio the next week to sing it live in order to prove he could sing.
> 
> pretty funny.


"All I neeeeeeeuheeeEEEEd..." 

video


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

KRS said:


> "All I neeeeeeeuheeeEEEEd..."
> 
> video


Is it as hard for a good singer to sing that badly as it is for a bad singer to sing well?


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

mask2343 said:


> Is it as hard for a good singer to sing that badly as it is for a bad singer to sing well?


no.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

r-u-kidding-me said:


> Hmmm - a big Storm Large and the Balls supporter? I can see you voicing this. Altho, Dilana was leaps and bounds better, I surely would not go out and say Gina was even in the same league as Hynde. Now, you are welcome to your opinion, but my guess is (as in the Storm case), you are swayed by the 'younger girl' look (Gina vs Hynde). I thought Gina sounded great, but a 'darkhorse'? Not buying!


Let me explain my comment a little further......If Gina can continue to perform as well as she did this week and sneak into the final four with, say, Lakisha, Melinda, and whomever else, I could see her making the final two due to numbers. Melinda and Lakisha are similar types of singers and could split a lot of votes. Gina is the only rocker type in the field. If it were her against anyone else in the finals, she could have a chance.

Oh and by the way.....Storm who?


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

Langree said:


> Actually Milli Vanilli was lip syncing to other peoples voices, not their own. Singers will still lip sync to their own vocal tracks under certain situations.


see, this is why I asked. I didn't know this was a standard practice.

BTW - why do you know so much about Milli Vanilli?


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

bruinfan said:


> all the AI contestants hate sanjaya.


Is that actually true?


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

goblue97 said:


> see, this is why I asked. I didn't know this was a standard practice.
> 
> BTW - why do you know so much about Milli Vanilli?


Fab and Rob were good friends of mine 

Actually I just watch way to much tv and retain useless trivial information like a sponge.


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Kamakzie said:


> Is that actually true?


I hope they don't hold what's happening against him, it's not really fair to him.


----------



## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

when they announced Sanjayjay was safe you could see the others half heartedly clapping. especially Chris Sligh. You could tell he KNEW with Sanjayjay safe, he'd be going home.


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Gunnyman said:


> when they announced Sanjayjay was safe you could see the others half heartedly clapping. especially Chris Sligh. You could tell he KNEW with Sanjayjay safe, he'd be going home.


and I bet he's still whining about it. Ignoring the fact that his last 2 performances sucked ass.


----------



## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

deezel629 said:


> I wasn't surprised by Curly going home. I thought his performance was the worst since Hollywood Week by anyone (including ALL of Sanjaya's performances). I mean, Sting is rolling over in his grave and he ain't even dead yet.


Wow, I've never disagreed more with anything on this forum, and that includes Choccy and Montag.

This performance by Sanjaya was by far the worst performance within a top 12 week in ALL of idol history. I like Chris, but I agree he wasn't improving. However compared to Sanjaya, he might as well be Sting.


----------



## DLL66 (Oct 21, 2002)

spikedavis said:


> Like someone said earlier-she's tolerable with the mute on.


Looks like all of you need to see a doctor for a hearing test!!!


----------



## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

brianp6621 said:


> Wow, I've never disagreed more with anything on this forum, and that includes Choccy and Montag.
> 
> This performance by Sanjaya was by far the worst performance within a top 12 week in ALL of idol history. I like Chris, but I agree he wasn't improving. However compared to Sanjaya, he might as well be Sting.


Worse:

1. Sanjayjay this week

2. Kevin Covais doing 'Part Time Lover.'

Discuss amongst yourselves.


----------



## deezel629 (May 30, 2006)

brianp6621 said:


> Wow, I've never disagreed more with anything on this forum, and that includes Choccy and Montag.
> 
> This performance by Sanjaya was by far the worst performance within a top 12 week in ALL of idol history. I like Chris, but I agree he wasn't improving. However compared to Sanjaya, he might as well be Sting.


That's just the reaction that I got. I guess it's because when Sanjaya performs, or Covais for that matter, I was expecting a train wreck bag of suck. With Sligh, I thought he had at least SOME talent, but I can't imagine that song being sung worse than he did it.


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

deezel629 said:


> That's just the reaction that I got. I guess it's because when Sanjaya performs, or Covais for that matter, I was expecting a train wreck bag of suck. With Sligh, I thought he had at least SOME talent, but I can't imagine that song being sung worse than he did it.


Imagine Sanjaya or Covais singing it.


----------



## katbug (Oct 3, 2003)

The funny thing is that I really don't even mind when singers lip-sync to their own music...sometimes they'd have to in order to do all the choreography for entertaining. I never understood all the hoopla about Ashley Simpson on SNL...I just was taken off-guard to see that Gwen might be. I don't have a problem with it though, just was curious. It just makes sense for them to do it. ;0)

Yes, sadly I remember the Milli-Vanilli scandal as well. There was so much of that going on at the time with MTV becoming so big. Most of the really good singers now also had to have a "look", so a lot of them had "fronts" who pretended they were the singer (others just dropped out of the industry). Milli-Vanilli just got made the example of, but they were by far not the only ones who were fronts for other singers (nope, can't list any other names...too long ago to remember now, lol).


----------



## Fassade (Apr 8, 2004)

NJChris said:


> She kinda reminds me of Nena. I'd like to see her to 99 Luft Balloons or Anytime Anywhere Anyplace.


I am pretty new to American Idol, but have they ever done a One-Hit Wonders theme? I am not sure who they could have as a "mentor," but, off the top of my head, here is a lineup, trying to keep novelty songs out of it:


 Gina - 99 Luft Balloons
 Jordin - Let's Hear it for the Boy (even though Deniece Willliams had a 2nd hit)
 Blake - She Blinded Me with Science (or One Night in Bangkok if there is enough of a vocal there)
 Phil - Come on Eileen
 Haley - Tainted Love (my wife suggested Barbie Girl)
 Chris R - I Melt With You 
 Melinda - You Gotta Be (Turn the Beat Around would probably fit her better, but she has done that type of song before)
 Lakisha - St Elmo's Fire (Man in Motion)
 Chris S - would have been Safety Dance or Stuck in the Middle With You
 Sanjaya - Axel F (okay, okay, he can have "Take On Me")

Some of these might end up being train wrecks, but I am sure I am forgetting some obvious one-hit-wonders others can point out.  Either way, it would be a fun theme night.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Just watched this tonight.

Gwen was not lip syncing. She did not sound so good though.


----------



## Jesda (Feb 12, 2005)

I think Gwen's singing was just a product of the kind of song -- ie, crappy. I dont think she was syncing either, except at the very beginning when she wasnt 'syncing' to her own voice anyway.


----------



## katbug (Oct 3, 2003)

Raj said:


> Will Simon really quit if he wins?


FWIW: My hubby came home and told me that he'd been listening to CNN or some news network on whatever the XM radio thing is I got him for Christmas...anyway, he heard them confirm that they had an official confirmation from Simon's publicist that yes, he will quit if Sanjayjay wins.


----------



## lodica1967 (Aug 5, 2003)

katbug said:


> FWIW: My hubby came home and told me that he'd been listening to CNN or some news network on whatever the XM radio thing is I got him for Christmas...anyway, he heard them confirm that they had an official confirmation from Simon's publicist that yes,* he will quit if Sanjayjay wins.*


I have such a problem with that! Umm, Simon.... YOU put him in the top 24. If you think he is that bad, then why did you pass-up others with talent so you wouldn't have to quit over your OWN bad decision.

Go Sanjaya. Oh, and I do love Simon. I just think it is ridiculous that he takes no responsibility for Sanjaya.


----------



## brott (Feb 23, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> I'm not sure about the whole dark horse thing, but I think [Gina] did an amazing job with that song. It was easily, by far and away, the best peformance of the night.
> 
> This is the type of moment I love in the show - when a performer finds a perfect song and style of music for them, particularly if it's one they hadn't considered doing before the show. It's happened a few times before... *it sort of happened when Carrie Underwood performed [Heart's Alone]*, and it sort of happened when Josh Gracin from season 2 finally gave up and countrified everything because it was something he did well.
> 
> I think she could also do a pretty good job with Pink as well; I'd also liked to have heard her do No Doubt's "Don't Speak."


The part that I bolded above is exactly what I was thinking when Gina was singing the song. In fact, I had to go back and listen to Carrie's rendition of _Alone_ on YouTube . This could have been a defining moment for Gina.


----------



## brott (Feb 23, 2001)

Fassade said:


> I am pretty new to American Idol, but have they ever done a One-Hit Wonders theme? I am not sure who they could have as a "mentor," but, off the top of my head, here is a lineup, trying to keep novelty songs out of it:
> 
> 
> Gina - 99 Luft Balloons


Gina could Sing ...

Lita Ford - Kiss Me Deadly

Not quite the same body, but she has the right voice for it.


----------



## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

lodica1967 said:


> I have such a problem with that! Umm, Simon.... YOU put him in the top 24. If you think he is that bad, then why did you pass-up others with talent so you wouldn't have to quit over your OWN bad decision.
> 
> Oh, and I do love Simon. I just think it is ridiculous that he takes no responsibility for Sanjaya.


There's a big difference between being in the top 24 and winning it all. I think all of the judges put through people into the top 24 that they KNOW are not good enough to win it all - but were better than some others whom they did not put through to the top 24.

And I think what is behind Simon's threat is that America realizes that Sanjayjay is NOT NOT NOT the best in this competition - there are just people making a complete sham of the whole thing.

I certainly hope this all becomes moot because the boy-unwonder winds up seeing the door soon!


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

They already addresses the issue of how some people can be in the top 24 who don't seem to belong on a talk show recently. Or maybe it was AI itself. The issue is, they seem to do well in earlier rounds but don't rise to the occasion at the next level. Perhaps they figured that he would improve and break out of his introverted shell by now.


----------



## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Langree said:


> and I bet he's still whining about it. Ignoring the fact that his last 2 performances sucked ass.


Actually he isn't.
At least not to the press.


----------



## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

Gunnyman said:


> Actually he isn't.
> At least not to the press.


Gunny,

He looked like he was rready to go home - his performances proved that out.


----------



## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

well that's true, but he wasn't complaining about Sanjayjay.


----------



## lodica1967 (Aug 5, 2003)

JLucPicard said:


> There's a big difference between being in the top 24 and winning it all. I think all of the judges put through people into the top 24 that they KNOW are not good enough to win it all - but were better than some others whom they did not put through to the top 24.


Good point, I can see that I guess. But I do think there were many people cut at Hollywood week that were much better even when Sanjaya was doing well.

I am still of the opinion that the threat is never going to happen. It's a numbers game and Sanjaya will probably break top 4 at best.


----------



## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

Chris has been a total jerk in his interviews on American Idol Extra on Fox Reality-- in his interview immediately after the announcement, he insinuates that viewers just listen to the judges and are too stupid to make up their own minds, and then goes on to say that the viewers of the show have probably never even heard of the song he sang because it was over 20 years old.  

You're missing the most obvious reason, Chris: YOU SUCKED.


----------



## katbug (Oct 3, 2003)

OMG, are you kidding me? Does he think we're all teeny-boppers watching the show? Of course I knew the song, and loved it! I even liked his singing it...thought it went well with his voice (and didn't really care much about the rhythm), but the fact remains that he messed up and that he's not acting like he cares about the competition. I think his attitude recently has been more of a factor than his singing. His early votes were due to a spunky attitude, but that can only take you so far, and once he dropped that, what was there to vote for?

I agree that I don't believe Simon will quit. I also don't think Sanjayjay will go further than the final 4 (maybe 5).


----------



## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

katbug said:


> FWIW: My hubby came home and told me that he'd been listening to CNN or some news network on whatever the XM radio thing is I got him for Christmas...anyway, he heard them confirm that they had an official confirmation from Simon's publicist that yes, he will quit if Sanjayjay wins.


In the _60 Minutes_ interview, they said that Simon made ~$37 mil from his Idol contract last year (not including what he gets from the signed acts). Does anyone _really_ believe that he'd turn his back on that?


----------



## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

David Platt said:


> Chris has been a total jerk in his interviews on American Idol Extra on Fox Reality-- in his interview immediately after the announcement, he insinuates that viewers just listen to the judges and are too stupid to make up their own minds, and then goes on to say that the viewers of the show have probably never even heard of the song he sang because it was over 20 years old.
> 
> You're missing the most obvious reason, Chris: YOU SUCKED.


Not quite a jerk here, but he still doesn't come off so good.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/03/30/americanidol.sligh.ap/index.html


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

DougF said:


> Not quite a jerk here, but he still doesn't come off so good.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/03/30/americanidol.sligh.ap/index.html


Seems to be a trend "I got kicked out, but I was looking to leave anyway".

What affiliation is Bob Jones U? 4Him is pretty tame as far as christian music goes, and they have good rythm and can stay with the beat.


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

DougF said:


> Not quite a jerk here, but he still doesn't come off so good.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/03/30/americanidol.sligh.ap/index.html


Sounds like he's wanted to quit everything he's ever done. Although, getting kicked out of Bob Jones University is a badge of honor for some people.

It sounds like he'd be a great fit in Contemporary Christian Rock music. Popular performers are much needed there too. Hope he does well.


----------



## katbug (Oct 3, 2003)

mcb08 said:


> In the _60 Minutes_ interview, they said that Simon made ~$37 mil from his Idol contract last year (not including what he gets from the signed acts). Does anyone _really_ believe that he'd turn his back on that?


Not for a minute.


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Langree said:


> Seems to be a trend "I got kicked out, but I was looking to leave anyway".
> 
> What affiliation is Bob Jones U? 4Him is pretty tame as far as christian music goes, and they have good rythm and can stay with the beat.


Bob Jones U is a very, very, very, very, very conservative school. Can't stress very enough. If I remember correctly, they are not even an accredited university.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Jones_University

After reading this, I see that they have been accredited by some organization.


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## r-u-kidding-me (Feb 19, 2007)

mcb08 said:


> In the _60 Minutes_ interview, they said that Simon made ~$37 mil from his Idol contract last year (not including what he gets from the signed acts). Does anyone _really_ believe that he'd turn his back on that?


So how about this....

Idol Finals: Melinda D (or whoever you want) VS Sangaya

Think producers or those in charge will make sure Melinda wins and Simon stays and all is well in TV land?


----------



## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

/[Irony]
*BJ*U is a Christian College
/[Irony]

ETA: Edited to highlight irony


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

mcb08 said:


> /[Irony]
> BJU is a Christian College
> /[Irony]


Why is this ironic? 

edit: Ahhh. Got it. The BOLD letters spelled it out for me.


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Wow, Chris is really stuggling. Trying to pass some blame. Check out his blog entry on his bands website.

http://www.halfpastforever.com/blog/blog_4.html


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

mask2343 said:


> Wow, Chris is really stuggling. Trying to pass some blame. Check out his blog entry on his bands website.
> 
> http://www.halfpastforever.com/blog/blog_4.html


Warning... the after-image that remains in your vision after reading the blog takes a while to go away.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

PJO1966 said:


> Warning... the after-image that remains in your vision after reading the blog takes a while to go away.


Now you tell me!!!!


----------



## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

mask2343 said:


> Wow, Chris is really stuggling. Trying to pass some blame. Check out his blog entry on his bands website.
> 
> http://www.halfpastforever.com/blog/blog_4.html


I don't think that he's trying to pass blame. I don't think that anyone thinks that he 'phoned it in' as he claims, either. My big issue with him is his increasing indifference every week.


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

mcb08 said:


> I don't think that he's trying to pass blame. I don't think that anyone thinks that he 'phoned it in' as he claims, either. My big issue with him is his increasing indifference every week.


Just didn't like the comments about the judges for week 1 when he changed up the song. Basically, all the guys stunk on the Final 12 day. And he claims they were all awesome. Sounded a little bitter towards the judges.


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Well, my wife wanted Haley to go, but I wanted Chris Sligh to go.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

You know, with all of this Sanjaya talk, we need to bring this thread back with a little dose of 15-minutes of fame reality:


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

timckelley said:


> Well, my wife wanted Haley to go, but I wanted Chris Sligh to go.


Ya know Tim, if you'd stop drooling all over the furniture whenever Haley's on screen, maybe your wife wouldn't mind her so much...


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

I usually say Sanjaya is the worst, but I think you could make the argument that this week, Chris Sligh was no better than Sanjaya. Sanjaya turned around during 60's week, and his performances have improved. Also, my wife thinks that Chris's body blubber has been a drawback for his chances.

And that hairdo was groundbreaking - a smart move by him. I'd never seen that particular hairdo before. I wonder if it will catch on, and be called a "Sanjaya".



madscientist said:


> Ya know Tim, if you'd stop drooling all over the furniture whenever Haley's on screen, maybe your wife wouldn't mind her so much...


Yes, I did tell my wife last night (we just got around to watching AI last night) how attractive she is (Haley, that is). She seemed to really want her off the show after that.


----------



## splendid (Sep 1, 2005)

mcb08 said:


> In the _60 Minutes_ interview, they said that Simon made ~$37 mil from his Idol contract last year (not including what he gets from the signed acts). Does anyone _really_ believe that he'd turn his back on that?


Not a chance. Didn't they stop showing Simon's other show: Pop Idol?


----------



## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

mcb08 said:


> In the _60 Minutes_ interview, they said that Simon made ~$37 mil from his Idol contract last year (not including what he gets from the signed acts). Does anyone _really_ believe that he'd turn his back on that?


Of course not. 
It might give the producers an excuse to change the voting system.

We had to do it or Simon was going to leave.

Limit voting to one call per phone number.

In the early rounds vote out two contestants, one from the phone in vote and one from the judges. Maybe not even picking contestants that don't belong.


----------



## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

r-u-kidding-me said:


> So how about this....
> 
> Idol Finals: Melinda D (or whoever you want) VS Sangaya


 WTH??? Not cool.


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Humorous, though.





BTW, lately I've been hearing reference to "the finals". What is "the finals" with regards to AI?


----------



## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

mcb08 said:


> In the _60 Minutes_ interview, they said that Simon made ~$37 mil from his Idol contract last year (not including what he gets from the signed acts). Does anyone _really_ believe that he'd turn his back on that?


I'm going to go against the grain that everyone else seems to believe and say yeah, I could see it easily. Obviously the earlier seasons he probably made less, but the reality is, he's probably made a mint off this show. After a while, how much more do you really need?

On top of that, the debacle of Sanjaya actually winning could have repercussions for the show down the road. Maybe it loses a large number of viewers in disgust. Maybe it's the mark that the show's peaked and it's starting downhill to it's ultimate death. If he thought that, I could easily see that he might want out before things get ugly.

But there's definitely a part of me that thinks he's starting to get bored with the whole thing, especially the initial "talent" interview process.


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

gschrock said:


> Maybe it's the mark that the show's peaked and it's starting downhill to it's ultimate death.


This is my first season to watch this show. Any predictions on how many more seasons this show has left in it? What are the chances that this is the last season, and that it's going to be cancelled after this season?


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

timckelley said:


> This is my first season to watch this show. Any predictions on how many more seasons this show has left in it? What are the chances that this is the last season, and that it's going to be cancelled after this season?


I think they need to do one of two things.
1) Get rid of the age limit. Allow ANYONE to try out.
2) Take a full year to 2 years off to allow the talent to rebuild.

You have to think that 90% of those who have wanted to try out have tried out by now. I think they need to take a break. Or open it up to older singers. Or they risk getting worse singers every year.

Chances of cancellation or taking a break: 0% (Ratings are still dominant)


----------



## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

David Platt said:


> Chris has been a total jerk in his interviews on American Idol Extra on Fox Reality-- in his interview immediately after the announcement, he insinuates that viewers just listen to the judges and are too stupid to make up their own minds, and then goes on to say that the viewers of the show have probably never even heard of the song he sang because it was over 20 years old.


Hmm, I 99% agree with him.


----------



## Jesda (Feb 12, 2005)

Chris Sligh suffers from arrogance. Anyway, he's gone, so that problem is now solved.


----------



## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

Jesda said:


> Chris Sligh suffers from arrogance. Anyway, he's gone, so that problem is now solved.


I look at it more like he went into it with the hopes that it wasn't just a popularity contest and when his worst fears were confirmed, he sorta stopped caring.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

brianp6621 said:


> Hmm, I 99% agree with him.


I don't. It does not jive with past idol winners or experiences or the fact that sanjaya is still around. Chris never got any better, only got worse. After sanjaya he was definitely the worst singer when you sum up all his performances.


----------



## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

TAsunder said:


> I don't. It does not jive with past idol winners or experiences or the fact that sanjaya is still around. Chris never got any better, only got worse. After sanjaya he was definitely the worst singer when you sum up all his performances.


Maybe not the winners no, I've always said that when it comes down to just a few people, the "popularity contest" finally breaks down, but before that, it is in full force and recent seasons support that.

Several people have stayed long beyond when they should have, Sanajaya being the worst of all, with that Kevin C. kid being a close second.

And as I've said, I agree he should have gone pretty soon but that doesn't have anything to do with the fact that Sanjaya is still around and several people have already left who shouldn't have.


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Final two:

Haley vs Sanjaya.


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

brianp6621 said:


> Maybe not the winners no, I've always said that when it comes down to just a few people, the "popularity contest" finally breaks down, but before that, it is in full force and recent seasons support that.
> 
> Several people have stayed long beyond when they should have, Sanajaya being the worst of all, with that Kevin C. kid being a close second.
> 
> And as I've said, I agree he should have gone pretty soon but that doesn't have anything to do with the fact that Sanjaya is still around and several people have already left who shouldn't have.


But are any of the people gone before Sanjaya near good enough to have won if they stayed?

Even now I wonder how the hell Reuben won over Clay, that just doesn't compute now matter how you look at it.


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Langree said:


> But are any of the people gone before Sanjaya near good enough to have won if they stayed?


That's a good question, and an analogous one can be made about teams that don't make it to a BCS bowl in college football. People argue about who should be in the finals, but in the end, the most important thing is that the best singer is crowned the grand winner of the whole thing.


----------



## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

Langree said:


> But are any of the people gone before Sanjaya near good enough to have won if they stayed?
> 
> Even now I wonder how the hell Reuben won over Clay, that just doesn't compute now matter how you look at it.


No, probably not. But don't you think if you were on the show trying to showcase your talent, even if you didn't win, you'd much prefer if the first part of the competition had some semblance of legitimacy and you left when your talent dictated it and not the popularity aspect of it?

This goes to the root of the problem with AI. It is only a singing competition once you get down to about 3-4 people (at which point one persons rabid-zombie fan base can't skew the votes significantly).

Before that it is a complete and utter popularity contest.


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

However, when you get to the last few people, if their talent is really equal, or close to it, I bet the tie breaker will be whoever's most popular. But I guess that's reasonable.

However, what if person A is just slightly more talented than person B? But person B has a more rabid popularity base of voters? Then I could see B getting voted in.


----------



## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

timckelley said:


> However, when you get to the last few people, if their talent is really equal, or close to it, I bet the tie breaker will be whoever's most popular.


Yes, but there is a very big difference between popularity being a "tie-breaker" between 2 very talented people and being the sole reason a person is even in the competition to begin with.


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

brianp6621 said:


> No, probably not. But don't you think if you were on the show trying to showcase your talent, even if you didn't win, you'd much prefer if the first part of the competition had some semblance of legitimacy and you left when your talent dictated it and not the popularity aspect of it?
> 
> This goes to the root of the problem with AI. It is only a singing competition once you get down to about 3-4 people (at which point one persons rabid-zombie fan base can't skew the votes significantly).
> 
> Before that it is a complete and utter popularity contest.


Right, it's easier to skew the system when voting is split between 6-8 people, as the choices narrow, the numbers fall more into line. Right now it's the Sanjaya voters vs w,x,y, and z. with all those votes being split, but when those numbers combine sanjaya won't stand a chance.

That may happen sooner than later now with Sligh gone.

and if you're on the show and have watched it the last few seasons, you really can't be surprised at what's happened and that up to now it's about popularity.

and I don't care what Sligh said in his blog, he didn't sing his last song the way they did it on the original, he's fooling himself. If he hadn't gone this week he would have very soon.


----------



## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

Langree said:


> and if you're on the show and have watched it the last few seasons, you really can't be surprised at what's happened and that up to now it's about popularity.


Oh I'm not surprised, that doesn't mean it doesn't still annoy me though.

However I don't really care that much as this is my least favorite part of the show. My favorite part and the only part I would probably watch if I were single is the first couple of weeks and watching all the crazies come out.


----------



## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

timckelley said:


> Final two:
> 
> Haley vs Sanjaya.


Hehe, T & A...


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

The point is, chris sligh was not booted because of the judges, or because america is stupid, or because it's a popularity contest. He was booted because he wasn't good enough. He had everyone's attention at the start, and he slowly blew it by not being good enough at singing.


----------



## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

TAsunder said:


> The point is, chris sligh was not booted because of the judges, or because america is stupid, or because it's a popularity contest. He was booted because he wasn't good enough. He had everyone's attention at the start, and he slowly blew it by not being good enough at singing.


No that's exactly NOT the point. That's the reason he would have left the show soon. If at this point this were NOT at all a popularity contest and purely a talent based competition, Sanjaya would have gone or been long gone.

The point is, the reason he went this week and NOT Sanjaya is purely because this IS a popularity contest.


----------



## splendid (Sep 1, 2005)

timckelley said:


> Also, my wife thinks that Chris's body blubber has been a drawback for his chances.


I guess he couldn't bring chubby back.


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## katbug (Oct 3, 2003)

brianp6621 said:


> No that's exactly NOT the point. That's the reason he would have left the show soon. If at this point this were NOT at all a popularity contest and purely a talent based competition, Sanjaya would have gone or been long gone.
> 
> The point is, the reason he went this week and NOT Sanjaya is purely because this IS a popularity contest.


Which was bugging me for a while, but now I think of Sanjaya as being on a different show, lol. When guessing who's going, I just take him out of the equation and guess who would be eliminated...so either way, Chris would have been gone next. The Sanjaya fiasco is only speeding up the inevitable by 1 week for everyone. He won't be around much longer, but in the meantime I think everyone just needs to take him out of the equation and think of the show / results without him in the mix...then there's nothing to complain about.


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## brott (Feb 23, 2001)

Sanjaya will not make the Final Four. In fact, I'll bet that he leaves as one of the next 3 people out. There is certainly room for a little movement, but the likely 3 groups of talent can be seen here. Besides we all know Melinda's going to win it - the rest of the folks are just there to talk about 

*Final Four*
Melinda
LaKisha
Blake

*One of these to Final Four*
Gina
Jordin
Chris R.

*Goners*
Haley
Phil
Sanjaya


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## katbug (Oct 3, 2003)

I'd say exchange Chris R. for Phil and you're on the money... ;0)


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

I'd swap Jordin and LaKisha.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

brianp6621 said:


> No that's exactly NOT the point. That's the reason he would have left the show soon. If at this point this were NOT at all a popularity contest and purely a talent based competition, Sanjaya would have gone or been long gone.
> 
> The point is, the reason he went this week and NOT Sanjaya is purely because this IS a popularity contest.


Or a unpopularity contest.


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## splendid (Sep 1, 2005)

PJO1966 said:


> I'd swap Jordin and LaKisha.


Me too.


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## robbins (Aug 23, 2005)

I can't believe that Sligh is gone, he was about 1,000 times better than Sanjaya.


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## brott (Feb 23, 2001)

PJO1966 said:


> I'd swap Jordin and LaKisha.


Maybe. Jordin needs to step it up a notch, though. I don't think she'll be able to do it, though.


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## pinkpanther54494 (Apr 2, 2006)

Why does it bother people that popularity also matters? Some of the best selling artists are definitely not the most talented, but it is popularity that sells records. I've heard the judges say that this is a singing competition but it is of course more than that. The record companies get to find out through massive weekly votes who is most popular, and they will capitalize greatly from this. There is no doubt someone will allow Sanjaya to record a CD just because he has a fan base. The largest fan base wins this competition.


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## jeffsinsfo (Oct 16, 2005)

Not only was Chris Sligh not a good enough singer, but he doesn't have much else going for him to carry him forward with weak vocals. Sure, Sanjaya doesn't sing as well as Chris Sligh, but at least Sanjaya is fun to watch. Haley is smart enough to work her sex appeal.

In today's music world where image is as (or more) important as singing ability, Chris Sligh didn't have much to offer: Out of shape, terrible hair style and clothing choices, and, worst of all, an imperious attitude that made him quite unlikeable. I guess that early on the judges found his jokes amusing, but to me he always came across as a jerk. His post-Idol interviews/statements are only confirming this. The guy has WAY more confidence than his limited talents warrant.



TAsunder said:


> The point is, chris sligh was not booted because of the judges, or because america is stupid, or because it's a popularity contest. He was booted because he wasn't good enough. He had everyone's attention at the start, and he slowly blew it by not being good enough at singing.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Langree said:


> Even now I wonder how the hell Reuben won over Clay, that just doesn't compute now matter how you look at it.


That one is simple. It is my firm belief that Reuben won because of the phone system.

The lines for the finals were packed. Totally saturated. If the number of people voting for each contestant was more than the phone lines could handle, you aren't going to get any sort of measure of HOW MUCH more than capacity each line was. It's just going to come down to which phone line happened to have a greater capacity during the voting block. For whatever reason, Reuben's phone line could handle more incoming calls than Clay's, and Reuben won.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

pinkpanther54494 said:


> Why does it bother people that popularity also matters? Some of the best selling artists are definitely not the most talented, but it is popularity that sells records. I've heard the judges say that this is a singing competition but it is of course more than that. The record companies get to find out through massive weekly votes who is most popular, and they will capitalize greatly from this. There is no doubt someone will allow Sanjaya to record a CD just because he has a fan base. The largest fan base wins this competition.


I think that people for the most part understand that popularity is a part of this thing. By that nature, though, that leaves the door open for the abberation that has become Sanjayjay, and I think that's what people have a problem with (at least I do).

The ground swell right now for Sanjayjay has way more to do with a movement that has caught on to totally mess with the system, and is not reflective of the talent he might have. People are voting for him in masses just to screw with things.

Sabrina, Sundance and maybe even Antonella, may have made it another week if not for the screwed up voting. Even more so for Brandon and Stephanie. Not making excuses for Chris Sligh, but by the time his number was up, he was aware that he was going to get dinged by that, too (witness his bet with Phil), and he may have soured as a result and kind of had enough. Hate to see him take that attitude (if that had any part of his drop off in performance), but along the way even the judges were mystified by Sanjayjay continually getting through.

One big effect of this is that he now is in the top ten and will be included in the touring group. Best of luck to him and I hope he learns a lot and gets some seasoning out of it and can advance his career. But I do think there may have been a couple of others who maybe were more ready for that now than him.

I would be really interested in how many of the VFTW-thinking goofs that have now handed him his 15 minutes would actually buy an album that he would put out. I'm guessing his CD sales (showing my age with the album reference ) would be much more reflective of the pre-teen girl support base than the 'screw with the system' base out there. Time will tell.

I'm just sayin'.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I'm getting bored with Lakisha.

She's good, but she has no range. It's the same thing week after week.


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## wooh (Feb 20, 2006)

> I would be really interested in how many of the VFTW-thinking goofs that have now handed him his 15 minutes would actually buy an album that he would put out.


That's kind of part of the point. The producers put Sanjaya through to the final 24, not America or VFTW. Because they wanted drama, not because out of the bajillion auditioners they could only find 23 people that were better singers than him. And since they put him through, and want to try to con America into thinking that they thought he was a legitimate talent, they're now getting what they asked for. "America" saying right back to them that he is. The judges act dumbfounded he's still there. Well, gee, it was Randy, Paula and Simon that said he was in the same league as those other 23 folks rather than the bajillion other auditioners. "America" is just agreeing with their original assessment of the guy. So now the producers can face the fact that they just may have to try to market an album from Sanjaya. And some legitimately good singer can play off the exposure they got from AI without being constrained by contracts with them (aka Daughtry.) It's a win-win for everyone except the producers that put Sanjaya in the top 24.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

wooh said:


> That's kind of part of the point. The producers put Sanjaya through to the final 24, not America or VFTW. Because they wanted drama, not because out of the bajillion auditioners they could only find 23 people that were better singers than him. And since they put him through, and want to try to con America into thinking that they thought he was a legitimate talent, they're now getting what they asked for. "America" saying right back to them that he is. The judges act dumbfounded he's still there. Well, gee, it was Randy, Paula and Simon that said he was in the same league as those other 23 folks rather than the bajillion other auditioners. "America" is just agreeing with their original assessment of the guy. So now the producers can face the fact that they just may have to try to market an album from Sanjaya. And some legitimately good singer can play off the exposure they got from AI without being constrained by contracts with them (aka Daughtry.) It's a win-win for everyone except the producers that put Sanjaya in the top 24.


Trainwreck weeks are just for that - the trainwrecks. We also get an early introduction to some of those that will advance much farther. No problem there. Did I think Sanjaya was good enough to make the 24? Ya, he was alright. I don't believe for a minute the judges put him through to the top 24 thinking he was not good enough and only to add some drama - uh, uh - don't believe that at all.

Now he's in the top 24 and America is voting. Now the 'popularity contest' aspect comes into play. OK, fine. Still no problem with that. If a talent, a style, a look makes someone popular enough to cover for some possible lack (even a small one) in talent, then great - vote for them. I'm still on board with that.

This is where that all derails. From reading many of the posts pushing Sanjayjay here and other places, the fact that Stern plays it as a complete joke and throws his 2 cents in, this is not the fact that there is something about Sanjayjay that makes him more popular. Granted there is a smaller fan base that is voting for him for the 'popularity issue' (the afore-mentioned pre-teen girl base), but now the votes that seem to be getting him through week to week are votes just to screw with the system and nothing more than that.

Don't blame the produces/judges for putting him through as the justification for screwing with the results. He got to the top 24 on his own merits. Now long after those merits have run out (as did Chris Sligh's last week), it's all about screwing with the voting. That's where I believe some people have a problem with it.

But you know what? People are going to have their juvenile fun. Not much that can stop that - especially appealing to their sense of reason. I mean, in part we are talking about Stern fans, right?


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## katbug (Oct 3, 2003)

> But you know what? People are going to have their juvenile fun. Not much that can stop that - especially appealing to their sense of reason. I mean, in part we are talking about Stern fans, right?


This is where you nailed it...lol. Sorry Stern fans, but he's got a point here.

Ok, no stones cast...my dd just pointed out that I watch Days of Our Lives.


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## pinkpanther54494 (Apr 2, 2006)

How can you all be so sure that Sanjaya's votes are from the "movement" to keep him in? I'd speculate that the "movement" only accounts for 10% of his votes. His fan base is probably the most loyal and willing to spend two hours calling in votes. Just my $0.02, and time will tell when his awful CD comes out.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

I think people are giving Stern to much credit for what's happening, including some here. I don't think he has as much affect as his ego would lead him to believe.


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## Philly Bill (Oct 6, 2004)

Langree said:


> I think people are giving Stern to much credit for what's happening, including some here. I don't think he has as much affect as his ego would lead him to believe.


I do.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Philly Bill said:


> I do.


based on what? because he says so? this is what, third season for VFTW, how can you discern any impact stern has had from what VFTW does?


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

Stern clearly has an effect. Maybe not a huge effect but I would say his words swing or at least ADD at least 100k-250k votes and maybe more. VFTW probably carries same leverage. That helps. 

Also I got dialidol ready for Tuesday. I just want to see how many votes I can get in this week using that. There is probably 300+ votes right there.


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## ThomasDrew (Dec 29, 2003)

Year in and year out, it never ceases to amaze me that after hundreds of thousands of people auditioning, the final 24 or so always ends up being extremely mediocre and often times, downright terrible.

If this were a REAL singing competition, the best 24 vocalists would make the cut, and gender, looks and popularity would NOT matter one bit. That's obviously not what Idol is though, and we should remember, that it is a REALITY TELEVISION show, first and foremost.

I can't understand the pissing and moaning over Sanjaya making it this far....I mean, haven't we seen this before in years past with John Stevens, Kevin Covais and Carmen Rasmussen?


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## katbug (Oct 3, 2003)

Once again, I'm defending John Stevens! I loved his sound and actually bought his CD for my dd. That was the first AI alum whose cd I bought, and I'd do it again.
Ok, you may continue ragging on the others though, as I didn't watch their seasons.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

brianp6621 said:


> No that's exactly NOT the point. That's the reason he would have left the show soon. If at this point this were NOT at all a popularity contest and purely a talent based competition, Sanjaya would have gone or been long gone.
> 
> The point is, the reason he went this week and NOT Sanjaya is purely because this IS a popularity contest.


BS.

You are operating on the flawed assumption that American Idol has to be a popularity contest solely because of the order that people are being removed from the show.

In the end, AI works itself out, and never has the best singer been booted before that particular year's sanjaya. And there is one every year.

If Chris S deserved to be here next week, he'd be here next week. Just because some other guy doesn't deserve to be here next week either doesn't mean chris s does. I don't care if Chris is better than Sanjaya or not. It's pointless, because they both are crap singers. AI doesn't have to operate on a perfect scale from 1-10 of people. All that matters is that the best singers make it near the end or to the end, and that has happened and will continue to happen.

Maybe you are really concerned that the 10th best singer is still there while the 9th best singer isn't. I'm not. I don't care. That doesn't demonstrate anything about popularity. If this were a popularity contest, sligh would probably still be in, because people like his personality. Do you really think all those other people who have virtually zero personality but are still on the show would be making it week after week while chris s who has repeatedly entertained us and was a front-runner got the boot?


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

To be honest, last week I'm not sure that Chris's singing was any better than Sanjaya's. Sorry. I guess that doesn't speak very well for Chris. Thankfully, he got booted. :up:


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## katbug (Oct 3, 2003)

In actuality, Sanjaya's doing the others a favor by sticking around (all right, his voters are the ones doing the favor)...it gets the would-be winner out of having to sign a contract with AI, and frees them up to do what they want with their music instead! (almost?) Every year, the 2nd place winner has said afterwards that they are glad that they didn't win so that they wouldn't have to be tied into the contract.
Well, that's if Sanjaya made it to the end, which I'm sure won't happen. Then again, he has improved each week... ;0)


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

katbug said:


> Then again, he has improved each week... ;0)


Good point. Theoretically, if he improves just enough each week to always be the second worst person, he's guaranteed to win this thing.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> Maybe you are really concerned that the 10th best singer is still there while the 9th best singer isn't. I'm not. I don't care. That doesn't demonstrate anything about popularity. If this were a popularity contest, sligh would probably still be in, because people like his personality. Do you really think all those other people who have virtually zero personality but are still on the show would be making it week after week while chris s who has repeatedly entertained us and was a front-runner got the boot?


That's how I feel, and Sligh's personality that we saw at the tryouts was non existant once he was in Hollywood, he looked like he was bored, on top of two weeks of less than steller performances.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Looking bored while singing and less than stellar singing would appear to be about singing and not popularity, though. I don't think anyone disagrees that popularity has a place, but that doesn't mean the show is nothing more than a popularity contest. It's a singing contest with a bit of popularity contest in it, not the other way around.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Looking bored while singing and less than stellar singing would appear to be about singing and not popularity, though. I don't think anyone disagrees that popularity has a place, but that doesn't mean the show is nothing more than a popularity contest. It's a singing contest with a bit of popularity contest in it, not the other way around.


No it is the other way around. If this were truly a singing contest none of these people would still be around.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Figaro said:


> No it is the other way around. If this were truly a singing contest none of these people would still be around.


That assumes that good singers not only tried out but also made it through the lame earlier rounds before people could vote. I'm not so sure of that.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Actually, it's about being able to entertain and connect with the song and the audience.

Who was it last year who sang great but seemed to lack the ability to connect with the lyrics she was singing?

If a good singer is boring to watch perform it can and does affect their overall career. Some people are much better in a studio setting than on stage. Idol is more about stage presence and face value more than a good studio singer.

That ability to "connect" is more important imo than many think.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> That assumes that good singers not only tried out but also made it through the lame earlier rounds before people could vote. I'm not so sure of that.


Well if it was a singing contest wouldn't the best singers have made it through the early rounds?


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## katbug (Oct 3, 2003)

Langree said:


> Actually, it's about being able to entertain and connect with the song and the audience...
> 
> That ability to "connect" is more important imo than many think.


ITA! I think that's why I actually enjoyed Sanjayjay this week (not enough to vote)...he had fun and I connected with that. Look at Jordin...she has always sung amazingly well, but people didn't really start responding to her until a couple of weeks ago, when she put so much emotion into her song and really connected with it, allowing us to connect with her. NOW people realize how talented she is. Until then she could have been voted off and a lot of people would have said "Jordin who?".


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Figaro said:


> Well if it was a singing contest wouldn't the best singers have made it through the early rounds?


Not neccessarily. Nerves, family & real life obligations, not being good in a group with other singers, not being good at memorizing songs in 12 hours, etc. are all factors. I guess you could say those are all elements of a good singer... I wouldn't.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Not neccessarily. Nerves, family & real life obligations, not being good in a group with other singers, not being good at memorizing songs in 12 hours, etc. are all factors. I guess you could say those are all elements of a good singer... I wouldn't.


Yeah those are elements, but even if those are issues for some singers I still don't buy the results. If these schmucks are the best that can be pulled from tens of thousands of people, then dear god help us all.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> Nerves, family & real life obligations


All things that pro's have to deal with every day, as well as remembering the words for all the songs they may sing at a concert or other live performances. As well as deal with outside factors like sleep deprivation if the schedule is tight.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Not all good singers are pros. Also, not all pros have to be isolated from family. Also, rarely would a pro have to learn a song they don't like in 8 hours and perform it live with 2 other people who are pros that just learned the song too. Nerves are something it takes time to learn how to deal with. A pro usually has doen so, whereas an amateur who might not even have professional experience wouldn't.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Not all good singers are pros. Also, not all pros have to be isolated from family. Also, rarely would a pro have to learn a song they don't like in 8 hours and perform it live with 2 other people who are pros that just learned the song too. Nerves are something it takes time to learn how to deal with. A pro usually has doen so, whereas an amateur who might not even have professional experience wouldn't.


Oh please, you are talking about it like they are asked to learn an entire Handel Oratorio overnight. Which by the way is possible. We are talking about learning "My Girl" and the like.

Separated from family? They go to LA, not GITMO.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Figaro said:


> Oh please, you are talking about it like they are asked to learn an entire Handel Oratorio overnight. Which by the way is possible. We are talking about learning "My Girl" and the like.
> 
> Separated from family? They go to LA, not GITMO.


Yeah but a pro doesn't have to learn my girl overnight and perform it. Typically the pro would be involved at least somewhat with the song well before they actually have to perform it.

Either way, gitmo or not, it clearly affects some people. At least two people missed the birth of their babies, for example.

Anyway ultimately the point is, I doubt that the best singers in the nation are actually trying out for AI beyond a couple here and there each year.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Yeah but a pro doesn't have to learn my girl overnight and perform it. Typically the pro would be involved at least somewhat with the song well before they actually have to perform it.
> 
> Either way, gitmo or not, it clearly affects some people. At least two people missed the birth of their babies, for example.
> 
> Anyway ultimately the point is, I doubt that the best singers in the nation are actually trying out for AI beyond a couple here and there each year.


Umm...pro's have to learn music at the last minute all the time. That's one of the skills that helps get you to being a pro.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Example?


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> Example?


<crickets chirping>


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Example?


Well a recent pop one was Celine Dion subbing for Streisand at the Oscars a few years ago. She did it on a couple hours notice. Pro classical singers do it all the time.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

So you think that almost every person who sings professionally in a band or otherwise has to learn songs they've never heard and perform them live the next day on a frequent if not constant basis? Really?

I'm looking forward to Maynard Keenan at the oscars singing a song from happy feet 2 next year.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> So you think that almost every person who sings professionally in a band or otherwise has to learn songs they've never heard and perform them live the next day on a frequent if not constant basis? Really?
> 
> I'm looking forward to Maynard Keenan at the oscars singing a song from happy feet 2 next year.


I am knowing that anyone worth their salt as a professional singer is capable of learning one new song overnight. And yes a lot of people have to learn music at the last minute. Talk to any wedding band singer. People are always changing their mind at the last minute. So ya rly.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Maybe not constantly, but learning 1 song in 24 hour period isn't that hard to do.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Figaro said:


> I am knowing that anyone worth their salt as a professional singer is capable of learning one new song overnight. And yes a lot of people have to learn music at the last minute. Talk to any wedding band singer. People are always changing their mind at the last minute. So ya rly.


You're going to use wedding band singers as your example of professionals worth their salt? I'll take someone who spends 2 months perfecting one song over a crap wedding singer who is nothing more than a glorified karaoke singer who happens to be able to learn some random songs and sing them in mediocre manner.

Yeah, maybe it's not that hard, but I don't see how that relates to actual singing skill considering there are PLENTY of people who don't have to do it. You have just used circular logic to prove your point. Any professional singer worth mentioning has to do it, therefore all professional singers worth mentioning do it. Sorry, try again.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> You're going to use wedding band singers as your example of professionals worth their salt? I'll take someone who spends 2 months perfecting one song over a crap wedding singer who is nothing more than a glorified karaoke singer who happens to be able to learn some random songs and sing them in mediocre manner.
> 
> Yeah, maybe it's not that hard, but I don't see how that relates to actual singing skill considering there are PLENTY of people who don't have to do it. You have just used circular logic to prove your point. Any professional singer worth mentioning has to do it, therefore all professional singers worth mentioning do it. Sorry, try again.


Do you actually know any singers? I think if you did you would not be having this conversation. Glorified karaoke singer? Do you watch this show? It is glorified karaoke.

If it takes someone 2 months to perfect "My Girl" type songs, they need to hang it up.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Yeah I do, and they don't do weddings or learn arbitrary songs at the last minute. They write their own music and perform those songs at gigs. Edit: And i'm pretty sure they still haven't perfected some of them.

I'm glad we are in agreement, it's a highly flawed singing competition. You have yet to demonstrate a single point that would support the notion that it's a popularity contest, nor have you convinced me at all that American Idol has great singers who should be making it through to the final 24 but aren't. Are these the wedding singer friends of yours?


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Yeah I do, and they don't do weddings or learn arbitrary songs at the last minute. They write their own music and perform those songs at gigs. Edit: And i'm pretty sure they still haven't perfected some of them.
> 
> I'm glad we are in agreement, it's a highly flawed singing competition. You have yet to demonstrate a single point that would support the notion that it's a popularity contest, nor have you convinced me at all that American Idol has great singers who should be making it through to the final 24 but aren't. Are these the wedding singer friends of yours?


We are not agreed. It is not a singing competition. If that were the case better singers would be getting through instead of schleps who the producers hope will blossom into a better schlep on tv. You can go into just about any large high school, let alone large college, and find people who sing better than the final 10.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

So you actually watch the early rounds and see people you think are tremendous talents who put every idol winner to shame? Or are you operating on some wild logical leap here, something like... the producers knowingly force great singers out, never show them on tv even, because they are good and thus would not be interesting somehow on the show? Or what? What exactly is your theory here?

Worth noting... schleps getting better on tv would seem to be about singing and not popularity. Maybe I'm not getting your point, if that's not what you are saying.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> So you actually watch the early rounds and see people you think are tremendous talents who put every idol winner to shame? Or are you operating on some wild logical leap here, something like... the producers knowingly force great singers out, never show them on tv even, because they are good and thus would not be interesting somehow on the show? Or what? What exactly is your theory here?
> 
> Worth noting... schleps getting better on tv would seem to be about singing and not popularity. Maybe I'm not getting your point, if that's not what you are saying.


Yeah the producers do turn away singers who are too polished. There have been countless reports about this. They don't care about finding the best singer. This is about what makes good tv. Why do you think we see idiots dressed as Uncle Sam? Because they are good singers?

They would rather find some putz who might rise a little bit above mediocrity during the show than put someone on who is great from the start.

Do you honestly believe that Taylor Hicks was the best singer that auditioned for the show last year?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Countless reports by 3rd party people with no vested interest? Even if that's so, it does not mean it's a popularity contest. If you take 24 mediocre singers and make them sing and then best singer of those 24 wins, it's still a SINGING competition, not a popularity competition. You are basically arguing that the people who make it to the final 24 are mediocre and therefore it's not a singing competition. By your own absurd example, if you hold a competition at a high school and judge their singing, does that make it suddenly not a singing competition just because they are no good and you chose among a pool of crap singers? No.

Why do they show people in banana costumes and uncle sam hats? Because it's a singing competition and they auditioned for the singing competition and were entertaining contestants. Do you think they just pulled some wacky looking people out of the circus and plopped them in front of simon?

Fine, you think better singers didn't make it to the final 24... that in no way makes it logical to claim that it's not a singing competition. It only proves that it's not a singing competition with the best singers in the nation as competitors (although, by your definition of what constitutes best singers, I must say I'm really grateful of that). It's still a singing competition unless you can demonstrate to me some clear case where the best singer seen by the TV audience did not make it. And please, don't include wedding singer friends.

Was taylor the best singer who tried out? Maybe not, but he was certainly in the top 2 or 3 of the people we were shown on TV.


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## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Countless reports by 3rd party people with no vested interest? Even if that's so, it does not mean it's a popularity contest. If you take 24 mediocre singers and make them sing and then best singer of those 24 wins, it's still a SINGING competition, not a popularity competition. You are basically arguing that the people who make it to the final 24 are mediocre and therefore it's not a singing competition. By your own absurd example, if you hold a competition at a high school and judge their singing, does that make it suddenly not a singing competition just because they are no good and you chose among a pool of crap singers? No.
> 
> Why do they show people in banana costumes and uncle sam hats? Because it's a singing competition and they auditioned for the singing competition and were entertaining contestants. Do you think they just pulled some wacky looking people out of the circus and plopped them in front of simon?
> 
> ...


The fact that people call in to vote for who wins, de facto, makes it a voting competition. Singing is just tertiary.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

RegBarc said:


> The fact that people call in to vote for who wins, de facto, makes it a voting competition. Singing is just tertiary.


Any competition has to have some way to pick the winner - they use votes.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

A singing contest would let the best singers through, end of story. 

Were you beat up by a wedding singer or something? You seem to have a lot of anger towards them.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Jebberwocky! said:


> Any competition has to have some way to pick the winner - they use votes.


Exactly. {Voting competitions} is a subset of {singing competitions}


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Figaro said:


> A singing contest would let the best singers through, end of story.


Or, least attempt to let the best singers through. The decision on who is best can be subjective. If the voters, in their minds, are using singing quality as their motivation for casting votes, this is a singing competition.

AI? In reality, it's probably a mixture, as some voters probably are voting based on who they truly think is the best singer, while other voters are voting based on whose personality they like.

So I think what we have on our hands is a hybrid contest.

But hopefully the top 24, which were picked by Paula, Randy, and Simon, were picked based on their opinions of singing ability and if so, then overall, I'd say AI is more singing competition, and less popularity contest, but not 100% so.


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## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

Jebberwocky! said:


> Any competition has to have some way to pick the winner - they use votes.


If they narrowed it down to 3 votes; the 3 judges, each with one vote, between two contestants; then it is a singing competition (assuming you could repeat it with any number of professional judges so long as their numbers are manageable).

However, being able to vote for an almost unlimited amount of time for a single contestant makes it a competition dependent on voting, not singing, talent, or anything of the sort. It's a popularity contest backed up with voting.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Figaro said:


> A singing contest would let the best singers through, end of story.
> 
> Were you beat up by a wedding singer or something? You seem to have a lot of anger towards them.


No, sorry. You need to look up some basic words in the dictionary. Like competition and contest.

About wedding singers, I just found it really hilarious that we were talking about a singing competition and using wedding singers as examples of good singers, since they are typically stereotyped as the exact opposite. So I like to bring it up a lot.

RegBarc, A voting competition would involve voters competing against each other to see who was the best voter. Not sure how AI could be called that, unless you want to talk about auto dialers.


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## katbug (Oct 3, 2003)

Just posted a poll on this for everyone to duke it out in. ;0)


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> No, sorry. You need to look up some basic words in the dictionary. Like competition and contest.
> 
> About wedding singers, I just found it really hilarious that we were talking about a singing competition and using wedding singers as examples of good singers, since they are typically stereotyped as the exact opposite. So I like to bring it up a lot.
> 
> RegBarc, A voting competition would involve voters competing against each other to see who was the best voter. Not sure how AI could be called that, unless you want to talk about auto dialers.


And you need to take a reading comprehension course as you are clearly not grasping what is being said in anyone's posts.

If you are happy in your delusion that this show is actually about singing, then you just go with that.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I never argued that AI is a show that finds the best singers in the nation and puts them up against each other, with the best singer in the nation winning, and the worst singer at each stage losing that week. You are the only one who thinks that is the only way it can be termed a singing competition.

However, given the people that we see on TV and the ones that get put through to the final 24, it is very evident to me that the people who make it to the final 2-3 are usually the better singers, and only diana degarmo among all the top 2 in the season's history did not seem to be worthy of making it that far.

And therefore chris sligh is wrong. He lost because he is not good. He can make whatever excuse he wants, but if he sang exceedingly well he'd still be on the show.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

I know this is subjective, but I really feel that Chris Sligh is not in the top several singers there, based just on singing ability along. If all I heard was the audio tapes, I don't think I'd rate Chris Sligh very high, compared to the other nine.

So I definitely would not hold Chris Sligh up as any kind of example that this is not a singing competition.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Sounds vaguely familiar.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> I never argued that AI is a show that finds the best singers in the nation and puts them up against each other, with the best singer in the nation winning, and the worst singer at each stage losing that week. You are the only one who thinks that is the only way it can be termed a singing competition.
> 
> However, given the people that we see on TV and the ones that get put through to the final 24, it is very evident to me that the people who make it to the final 2-3 are usually the better singers, and only diana degarmo among all the top 2 in the season's history did not seem to be worthy of making it that far.
> 
> And therefore chris sligh is wrong. He lost because he is not good. He can make whatever excuse he wants, but if he sang exceedingly well he'd still be on the show.


So do you really think that the people the producers allow you to see out of the thousands who auditioned, are actually the best that they had audition?


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Figaro said:


> So do you really think that the people the producers allow you to see out of the thousands who auditioned, are actually the best that they had audition?


I actually don't think they are. Part of the entertainment is to see Simon belittle the horrible singers and ask them why they even auditioned.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Figaro said:


> So do you really think that the people the producers allow you to see out of the thousands who auditioned, are actually the best that they had audition?


More like, the people who make it to the final 24 are by and large the best singers from the previous round. It may be that the very first screening process eliminates great singers, but from the point that simon, randy, and paula see them, I think the people who do the best job of singing under the contrived circumstances provided tend to make it.

I'd also bet that the contract you have to sign to be on AI scares off people or makes it so they can't compete. Similar to how a comedian on last comic standing had a conflict and had to be removed.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

timckelley said:


> I actually don't think they are. Part of the entertainment is to see Simon belittle the horrible singers and ask them why they even auditioned.


Right, but that doesn't mean that the next celine dion was turned away to make room for clown pants guy. Not that it would be preferable to see the next celine dion for more than 5 seconds without a vomit bucket nearby.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

So it only actually becomes a "singing competition" when they reach the third phase of the audition process? That's not a singing competition, that's a reality tv side show and that is exactly American Idol is.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> . Not that it would be preferable to see the next celine dion for more than 5 seconds without a vomit bucket nearby.


There, finally something we can agree upon.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Figaro said:


> So it only actually becomes a "singing competition" when they reach the third phase of the audition process? That's not a singing competition, that's a reality tv side show and that is exactly American Idol is.


So in your mind, the process of vetting contestants is the sole determining factor i this case? So if we got to see every single competitor and vote, then it would be a singing competition? Or do we need some sort of special certificate to even be qualified to vote?


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> So in your mind, the process of vetting contestants is the sole determining factor i this case? So if we got to see every single competitor and vote, then it would be a singing competition? Or do we need some sort of special certificate to even be qualified to vote?


No I am saying it is not a competition if people are being dropped from the early stages of the supposed competition for reasons not having to do with their singing.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

It's one thing to say that a competition is meaningless, like people do with olympic or other amateur events where pros aren't allowed. It's another thing to say that they aren't even competing in their sport just because the best athletes in the sport are turned away. The latter is rubbish. I won't disagree that AI might be a meaningless singing competition, but it's definitely a singing competition. You should get your wedding singer buds to try out and report back.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> It's one thing to say that a competition is meaningless, like people do with olympic or other amateur events where pros aren't allowed. It's another thing to say that they aren't even competing in their sport just because the best athletes in the sport are turned away. The latter is rubbish. I won't disagree that AI might be a meaningless singing competition, but it's definitely a singing competition. You should get your wedding singer buds to try out and report back.


I don't have any wedding singer buds. You should really let that go. You asked for an example of professional singers who have to learn music on short notice. I gave you such an example.

For the record, I have opera singing buds, lieder singing buds, musical theatre singing buds, pop singing buds, and country singing buds.

For the last time, it's not a singing competition if people are eliminated for reasons other than their singing. That is what happens in the early stages of AI. Consider AI to be anything other than a reality show that pretends to be a singing contest is rubbish.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Right, and the same thing applies to the olympics.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Right, and the same thing applies to the olympics.


What???


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Figaro said:


> What???


glad I'm not the only one who didn't get that.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

In the olympics, moreso in years past than today, you were not allowed to compete unless you were an amateur. Figaro's complaint about AI eliminating the "best" singers because they are too good is similar to the lame argument people used to use about the olympics.

Once the judges see the contestants in AI, it becomes a singing competition. Chris Sligh sang well enough to make the finals, but not well enough to win AI. Case closed. You can blab on all you want about great singers being kicked off because they are too good in the initial screening process... it makes no logical sense to say it's not a singing competition for that reason.

Provide me some evidence that great singers are kicked off for being too good once paula, simon, and randy see them, and I might understand the point.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> In the olympics, moreso in years past than today, you were not allowed to compete unless you were an amateur. Figaro's complaint about AI eliminating the "best" singers because they are too good is similar to the lame argument people used to use about the olympics.
> 
> Once the judges see the contestants in AI, it becomes a singing competition. Chris Sligh sang well enough to make the finals, but not well enough to win AI. Case closed. You can blab on all you want about great singers being kicked off because they are too good in the initial screening process... it makes no logical sense to say it's not a singing competition for that reason.
> 
> Provide me some evidence that great singers are kicked off for being too good once paula, simon, and randy see them, and I might understand the point.


Holy crap! If anyone should know about lame arguments I guess you would. Olympic eligibility is nothing like AI dropping people for non singing reasons.

Sure AI doesn't let you in if you are already under contract with a label. They will however let you in if you have been under contract in the past as long as you aren't currently under contract.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Your complaint is that the best singers are kicked off because they are too good and thus the entire competition is invalid. You claim it's the more general "kicked off for non-singing reasons" but you have yet to offer any example except in the case of good singers being removed for being too good (which I don't really believe to be the general rule anyway), thus making it a competition among second tier singers or worse. Which is exactly what the olympics used to be before they started allowing pros in.

Being under contract is not the only way to be a professional, as you so deftly demonstrated with your wedding singer example.

Again, the entire claim you are making is bogus in the first place since you are making unsupported points and failing to comprehend the difference between a singing competition of minimal importance and a popularity contest. Maybe the producers pick people based on hair style and clothing, maybe not. DOESN'T MATTER, when they start singing before the judges and get through based on singing, it becomes a singing competition.

Maybe they give you a special looney singer dictionary or something, but mine, which would be diciontary.com, does not leave much room for doubt here.

I don't care how many times you repeat your BS argument, it's not true just because you say it's true or just because you have studied singing. It's a singing competition foremost, because everything we see indicates that the best singers get through. Take off your tin foil hat for a moment and think about how much effort and cost would be required for them to repeatedly have great singers and never let them slip through the cracks and get to the judges or on TV. And what would be the point? They would make more money and spend less time editting out and covering up and coercing judges by keeping great singers. What exactly are you supposing they are gaining by booting superior singers? Does it have anything to do with JFK?

You don't like AI, we get it. Try offering some supporting arguments instead of just repeating yourself over and over as if you are making the slightest bit of sense. It's a singing competition because people sing and get judged primarily on singing, then get voted for primarily for singing. Then they make albums and sell them and go on tour. Then win grammies. What an incredible coincidence that they get to release albums and then win grammies, as voted by professionals who actually do this for a living.

What an amazing conspiracy. It surely involves halliburton and ex-KGB agents. People entering a competition, then singing before people who work in the recording industry, then singing before a live audience. Then winning grammies. All the while, the entire thing had nothing to do with singing. These guys are brilliant... wasting millions of dollars to pull a fast one on us when they could spend less and do it legitimately and make more money. Now THAT is what I call a conspiracy.


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## r-u-kidding-me (Feb 19, 2007)

I'm with FIG.....total popularity competition PERIOD. It may start out as a 'singing' competiton, but once "Schleps" that don't know crap about music, start voting i.e. Stern supporters and others....it becomes nothing but popularity. It has nothing to do with the singer that sings the best. AND people do NOT Just get judged PRIMARILY on singing. So TAss....give it a rest


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

NatasNJ said:


> Stern clearly has an effect. Maybe not a huge effect but I would say his words swing or at least ADD at least 100k-250k votes and maybe more. VFTW probably carries same leverage. That helps.
> 
> Also I got dialidol ready for Tuesday. I just want to see how many votes I can get in this week using that. There is probably 300+ votes right there.


Based on dialidol's state maps, the highest number of votes for Sanjayjay are coming from New Jersey, California and Texas.

From that I suspect that a lot of Indians are voting for him.

Not call centers, just Indian people.

And can you blame them really? It happens in real elections too with many other ethnic groups.

Sanjaya is here to stay. Just watch.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Your complaint is that the best singers are kicked off because they are too good and thus the entire competition is invalid. You claim it's the more general "kicked off for non-singing reasons" but you have yet to offer any example except in the case of good singers being removed for being too good (which I don't really believe to be the general rule anyway), thus making it a competition among second tier singers or worse. Which is exactly what the olympics used to be before they started allowing pros in.
> 
> Being under contract is not the only way to be a professional, as you so deftly demonstrated with your wedding singer example.
> 
> ...


Wow, you are truly a sad and angry individual who lacks even a rudimentary level of reading comprehension. Good luck with all that, you are certainly going to need it.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Yeah, reading comprehension. That's the problem. Not that your point has no merit and you can't offer a single valid piece of evidence. It's that I can't read. Obviously when everyone else reads "It's not a singing competition" they get a totally different meaning than I do. Perhaps for those of us who are mentally challenged, some day you will actually offer some evidence of the apparent fraud being committed by american idol. I look forward to that day.

Thanks for sharing r u kidding, perhaps you will one day explain how winners of mere popularity contests have managed to win grammies and sell millions of albums.


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## DLL66 (Oct 21, 2002)

Go GINA!!


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## r-u-kidding-me (Feb 19, 2007)

TAsunder said:


> Yeah, reading comprehension. That's the problem. Not that your point has no merit and you can't offer a single valid piece of evidence. It's that I can't read. Obviously when everyone else reads "It's not a singing competition" they get a totally different meaning than I do. Perhaps for those of us who are mentally challenged, some day you will actually offer some evidence of the apparent fraud being committed by american idol. I look forward to that day.
> 
> Thanks for sharing r u kidding, perhaps you will one day explain how winners of mere popularity contests have managed to win grammies and sell millions of albums.


ah...look who rolled outta bed. Lets just start with last years 'winner'....clearly not the most talented singer. So, how did he win? He appealed (for whatever reason), whether is was his goofiness, choice of songs, dress, whatever.....this is not singing. All of this plays in the voting. It is perception. People voted for Bush that had no clue what he stood for, but the mere fact that they heard his name before. It isn't about politics in this case...same with singing. Has little to do with it.

Haley is way better than 'Schleps' on here give her credit, but instead, the topic goes to her legs or what she is wearing, etc (which are nice, don't get me wrong).....not much to do with singing is it?


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

r-u-kidding-me said:


> Haley....the topic goes to her legs or what she is wearing, etc (which are nice, don't get me wrong)


Understatement.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Of course it's a popularity contest; who the hell would want to watch a contest to determine the best singer? They are trying to be the next "Idol" not "singer" - take a look at the best selling pop acts and how many have/are really technically good singers? It's about presentation and charisma, it's about entertainment value, not necessarily singing in perfect rhythm or with perfect pitch. They definitely turn away good singers in the audition phase because the judges don't think they have stage presence or are marketable.

Ultimately, the show is a real long commercial for CDs and concerts...


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

The show is a popularity contest. But, it's based on voting, which (much like real politics, also based on voting) doesn't result in the thing that wins being the thing people are actually willing to pay their own money for. The voting is the flaw, not the fact that it isn't judged by singing judges like a figure skating competition.

They are currently selling studio-created extended-play versions of the Idol covers every week at AmericanIdol.com for $0.99. I think they should base the winner on that, rather than on free voting. Whoever has the fewest cumulative downloads (not just for that week, but over the course of the entire show), of all the people still alive on Wednesday morning, goes home that week. The person with the most paid downloads wins the show. This way, we get a true test of whether the singer is marketable musically, not simply based on his/her looks or personality.


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

Ya, that's why they call it American *Idol*. On the other hand, the class presidents back in high school were chosen based on who was better qualified like making good on promises like bigger lockers for everyone, longer lunch periods, and video games in the commons. :up:


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I'm pretty sure most pop acts of the kind AI is gearing towards feature competent singers, since the singers rarely have any job except to sing or look good. Sometimes they don't even look good. It would be dumb for the record companies hoisting up these pop singers to use poor singers as a general practice.

I agree, AI is a marketting tool. But the proof is in the pudding. Two winners have won multiple grammies... seems likely they are marketting good singers to me. VFTW uses the example of a singer described as "mandissa 2.0" or something like that being cut. Why would they want mandissa 2.0? They want Kelly Clarkson 2.0 or Carrie Underwood 2.0, if anything.


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## r-u-kidding-me (Feb 19, 2007)

TAsunder said:


> I'm pretty sure most pop acts of the kind AI is gearing towards feature competent singers, since the singers rarely have any job except to sing or look good. Sometimes they don't even look good. It would be dumb for the record companies hoisting up these pop singers to use poor singers as a general practice.
> 
> I agree, AI is a marketting tool. But the proof is in the pudding. Two winners have won multiple grammies... seems likely they are marketting good singers to me. VFTW uses the example of a singer described as "mandissa 2.0" or something like that being cut. Why would they want mandissa 2.0? They want Kelly Clarkson 2.0 or Carrie Underwood 2.0, if anything.


You market what sells. What sells is not always what is good, rather what is 'hip'...'in'...'groovy'...whatever the generation. It is still based on popularity.

I can't stand rap, but by god I'll 'throw some D's on it' since that seems to be the thing to do. (I assume they are Rims, but what the Hel are D's and what am I throwing them on?)


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> It's that I can't read. .


No you can read, you just don't understand what you read. Time to head back to dictionary.com.

There are no judges in this "competition." It is being decided by popular vote. That is a popularity contest. When people vote for who they like best, that is a popularity contest not a singing competition.


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## r-u-kidding-me (Feb 19, 2007)

Figaro said:


> No you can read, you just don't understand what you read. Time to head back to dictionary.com.
> 
> There are no judges in this "competition." It is being decided by popular vote. That is a popularity contest. When people vote for who they like best, that is a popularity contest not a singing competition.


WORD!


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Figaro said:


> No you can read, you just don't understand what you read. Time to head back to dictionary.com.
> 
> There are no judges in this "competition." It is being decided by popular vote. That is a popularity contest. When people vote for who they like best, that is a popularity contest not a singing competition.


Yeah ok... I see you totally discarded your previous complaint now. Glad we got that one behind us.

It's both a popularity contest and a singing contest. People vote for the person they like as a singer. They are being judged predominantly based on their appeal as a singer, which would include technical proficiency, stage presence, attire, and any other element on which a pop singer is evaluated by his or her audience.

It could be a less flawed system, but it still has worked out well enough to produce 2 grammy winners. I don't think that's coincidence.


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## r-u-kidding-me (Feb 19, 2007)

TAsunder said:


> It could be a less flawed system, but it still has worked out well enough to produce 2 grammy winners. I don't think that's coincidence.


Right time...right place. Songs written for them etc....I could seriously list more female singers that could sing 'Jesus Take the Wheel' way better than CU. It is all about who gets pushed and promoted and that is based on popularity along with a little above basic singing skills

Don't make me throw down a Remix now


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

So if you held a popularity contest at your work and had the same marketting team behind it, you think the winner of your work popularity contest would win a grammy then too eh?


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Yeah ok... I see you totally discarded your previous complaint now. Glad we got that one behind us.
> 
> It's both a popularity contest and a singing contest. People vote for the person they like as a singer. They are being judged predominantly based on their appeal as a singer, which would include technical proficiency, stage presence, attire, and any other element on which a pop singer is evaluated by his or her audience.
> 
> It could be a less flawed system, but it still has worked out well enough to produce 2 grammy winners. I don't think that's coincidence.


No I am just tired of explaining it to you over and over again while you talk about the Olympics.

How is having a bunch of teenagers dialing in as many times as they can "judging people on their technical proficiency"?

You are just never going to get it. Enjoy the show man.


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## r-u-kidding-me (Feb 19, 2007)

TAsunder said:


> So if you held a popularity contest at your work and had the same marketting team behind it, you think the winner of your work popularity contest would win a grammy then too eh?


Hmmm...good question...but then again, Idol 'combed' the US for those individuals their talent agents gambled would make it big. They know what to look for. Not so sure I work with any 'cards' like that here, but yeah I don't think it takes as much as you think it does, being promoted on the most watched show right now and having Stern et al giving you tons of votes. Get a good songwriter, makeup artist, wardrobe designer, good studio producer - not impossible.....it is having those at your disposal that is


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

On another note, I believe an argument can be made that the Grammys are no better determinate of who is a 'good singer' than AI. I particularly like the comments by Maynard James Keenan; he might as well be talking about AI...



> The Grammy Awards have been criticized on numerous occasions for being only devoted to mainstream music and for not highlighting alternative groups and artists. This has also lead to the speculation that The Grammy Awards are controlled and manipulated by major record labels.[citation needed] Evidence for this is limited, though the lack of non-mainstream acts being nominated for awards has supported this speculation.
> 
> There was well covered criticism of the Grammy Awards after the pop group Milli Vanilli won a Grammy, and it was later discovered that the two "singers" were actually just lip synching. As a result, their Grammys were withdrawn.
> 
> ...


from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammy_Award


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Figaro said:


> No I am just tired of explaining it to you over and over again while you talk about the Olympics.
> 
> How is having a bunch of teenagers dialing in as many times as they can "judging people on their technical proficiency"?
> 
> You are just never going to get it. Enjoy the show man.


Did you miss the rest of the sentence you quoted? It was a list of what makes people appealing as a singer. No one is filling out a form or using some lame texbook to judge specific things (except maybe you), but a singer who is technically inept is going to be less appealing than another singer who is otherwise identical.

Sorry that the industry you cherish is such crap, but that's the way it is. Singing is just one small aspect of what makes a good band. Idol does a decent job of finding singers who fit into the crap mainstream pop and who will succeed in a pop band. It does so based on their performance as singers in front of a TV audience, which for the most part would be the same people who ultimately buy their albums.


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## r-u-kidding-me (Feb 19, 2007)

TAsunder said:


> Idol does a decent job of finding singers who fit into the crap mainstream *pop* and who will succeed in a *pop* band. It does so based on their performance as singers in front of a TV audience, which for the most part would be the same people who ultimately buy their albums.


I wonder what 'pop' is short for? Popular? Doesn't always have much to do with singing. It is a popularity competition and by jove, we will convince you if its the last thing we do 

IMO - its elements of both arguments here. I mean they have to be able to sing a tune at least to appease the common 'moron' - but hey, rap has been around way longer than anticipated. Other than that.....its all fluff


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Raj said:


> Based on dialidol's state maps, the highest number of votes for Sanjayjay are coming from New Jersey, California and Texas.


Percentage wise, Alaska has them all beat.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Did you miss the rest of the sentence you quoted? It was a list of what makes people appealing as a singer. No one is filling out a form or using some lame texbook to judge specific things (except maybe you), but a singer who is technically inept is going to be less appealing than another singer who is otherwise identical.
> 
> Sorry that the industry you cherish is such crap, but that's the way it is. Singing is just one small aspect of what makes a good band. Idol does a decent job of finding singers who fit into the crap mainstream pop and who will succeed in a pop band. It does so based on their performance as singers in front of a TV audience, which for the most part would be the same people who ultimately buy their albums.


So in essence they are testing the people's popularity. That is why it is a popularity contest. Not a singing contest.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> It could be a less flawed system, but it still has worked out well enough to produce 2 grammy winners. I don't think that's coincidence.


They've had 5 winners. Only two (plus one runner-up) have had commercial success as recording artists. To be fair, the jury is still out on the efforts of the folks from last season, but it looks pretty clear that both Chris Daughtry and Katharine McPhee will outsell Taylor Hicks many times over.

So, they find successful artists. But those artists don't always win the competition.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

r-u-kidding-me said:


> I wonder what 'pop' is short for? Popular? Doesn't always have much to do with singing. It is a popularity competition and by jove, we will convince you if its the last thing we do
> 
> IMO - its elements of both arguments here. I mean they have to be able to sing a tune at least to appease the common 'moron' - but hey, rap has been around way longer than anticipated. Other than that.....its all fluff


Right, just as the pop in pop music is short for popular. You don't need to convince me that pop music is a crap genre. I was convinced of that a long time ago. That's why about 95% of the albums I buy are from indie labels and feature musicians who wouldn't be featured on AI in a million years.

What you won't be successful at convincing me of is that AI singers are not good pop singers. There is too much evidence to the contrary. It's the genre itself that's the problem. AI does a good job of finding pop singers, and the contestants who make it to the end are generally the best pop singers, and those pop singers create successful albums.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Figaro said:


> So in essence they are testing the people's popularity. That is why it is a popularity contest. Not a singing contest.


Except that they are testing people's popularity AS A SINGER.


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## r-u-kidding-me (Feb 19, 2007)

TAsunder said:


> What you won't be successful at convincing me of is that AI singers are not good pop singers. There is too much evidence to the contrary. It's the genre itself that's the problem. AI does a good job of finding pop singers, and the contestants who make it to the end are generally the best pop singers, and those pop singers create successful albums.


Like deluded Sanjay voters, you miss the mark once again! AI does not "FIND" pop singers PERIOD. They MAKE pop singers and with a little effort, you could be pop singer. But do you have the Charisma, charm, sex appeal, personality, intellect etc to be in the 'limelight' and promote and sell (based on some of your rationale here - not). That has little to do with singing.

Sorry dude - popularity contest - hands down!


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

who's more popular...

TAsunder or Figaro??


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## r-u-kidding-me (Feb 19, 2007)

bruinfan said:


> who's more popular...
> 
> TAsunder or Figaro??


They gotta sing first


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Interesting aside to all of this..............

I would agree that Chris Sligh did not do great on the show. However, I just found out about his band, Half Past Forever. I went to their website and listened to some of the music and it is really good.

http://www.halfpastforever.com/


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

who is hotter?


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## r-u-kidding-me (Feb 19, 2007)

jlb said:


> Interesting aside to all of this..............
> 
> I would agree that Chris Sligh did not do great on the show. However, I just found out about his band, Half Past Forever. I went to their website and listened to some of the music and it is really good.
> 
> http://www.halfpastforever.com/


I went to his site last week and it talks of him as 'former'.....


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

jlb said:


> Interesting aside to all of this..............
> 
> I would agree that Chris Sligh did not do great on the show. However, I just found out about his band, Half Past Forever. I went to their website and listened to some of the music and it is really good.
> 
> http://www.halfpastforever.com/


Don't let your pals at Graycharles.com know that you are pimping another site!


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Figaro said:


> Don't let your pals at Graycharlse.com know that you are pimping another site!


Or his pals at stormlarge.com

A pattern is beginning to emerge.


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

Which is more frightening:

The amount of Votes for Sanjaya or
The extent to which people take this show so personally.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

NJChris said:


> Which is more frightening:
> 
> The amount of Votes for Sanjaya or
> The extent to which people take this show so personally.


#2


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

r-u-kidding-me said:


> Like deluded Sanjay voters, you miss the mark once again! AI does not "FIND" pop singers PERIOD. They MAKE pop singers and with a little effort, you could be pop singer. But do you have the Charisma, charm, sex appeal, personality, intellect etc to be in the 'limelight' and promote and sell (based on some of your rationale here - not). That has little to do with singing.
> 
> Sorry dude - popularity contest - hands down!


The problem with it having "little" to do with singing is, if they were terrible singers, they would not succeed (once off the show), and many people who are ugly/uncharismatic make it pretty far into the show seemingly because they are good singers. Fantasia was not exactly the world's sexiest female. Not really sure how anyone could classify ruben as someone with intellect, sex appeal, etc.

Singing is a major factor in this show.


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## pinkpanther54494 (Apr 2, 2006)

The finalists need a minimum level of musical ability to compete in this competition. From there it turns into who is more entertaining, thereby making them popular.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Well for me, and for many other Americans (I would hope), I form my opinion based on a mixture of who I think is the best singer and best entertainer. By "entertainer", I'm including things like physical gestures they make. (Example: I subtract a point for Melinda's head shaking and hand shaking, though to be fair, last week, she was much better at not doing that.) Dancing is another gesture that plays into it. If singer A sings just barely better than singer B, but singer B is a much better dancer than singer A, I think singer B has the advantage.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Minimum musical ability being what 99.9% of americans do not have.


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