# MoCA Bridge going bad ?



## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

How would I know if my MoCA bridge is wacky and is the Tivo one the best? Thanks in advance


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Pretty vague question re: MoCA bridge performance, so I'm jumping to the latter question first.

The 'TiVo Bridge' product currently for sale is simply a rebranded Actiontec ECB6000 standard MoCA 2.0 adapter. It's quite a good MoCA adapter and is ideally suited for providing a MoCa connection to a TiVo BOLT/BOLT+, as the BOLT models match its standard MoCA 2.0 spec. If all you have are Roamios, Premieres and Minis, a MoCA 2.0 adapter could be considered overkill. That said, cost plays a part in the value decision, so, to that end, see this post for a list of some of the currently available MoCA adapters.


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

Great that helps and the price is right as well..just wondering whats the likelyhood of the bridge going bad after 7 months,,??


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

It's electronics, so it's possible.

What makes you think your existing adapter has gone bad? What symptoms are you seeing?


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

krkaufman said:


> It's electronics, so it's possible.
> 
> What makes you think your existing adapter has gone bad? What symptoms are you seeing?


Live TV keeps dropping V85


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Could I bother you to get a description on how your TiVo equipment is interconnected, to each other, the TV signal and to your home network?

I'm reviewing some of your past posts and it looks like Powerline adapters may be in use, so I'm curious if they're still in play and if they might not be the root of the network disruptions, rather than your MoCA adapter.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Near as I can tell, the following is your existing setup; please make corrections, as needed. (diagram welcome)

*Junction Box*

coax point-of-entry run from cable provider (strictly for cable Internet service)
PoE MoCA filter (installed on input to first splitter/amp connected to cable provider)
Splitters? (connections essential; model numbers can be useful, if issues persist)
Amp? (model number critical, if you have an amp)
*Roof(Other?)*

Antenna (coax run thru junction box)
*Some Room *(single coax run to junction box)

Cable Internet (cable modem w/router, or cable gateway; model #s?)
MoCA adapter (model #?)
Splitter? (possibly needed to split coax signal b/w modem & MoCA adapter)
Powerline adapter (connected to LAN port on router)
*Living Room *(single coax run to junction box)

Roamio OTA (coax connection to junction box)
Powerline adapter (connected to Ethernet port of Roamio)
*Bedroom* (single coax run to junction box)

Mini (connected via coax/MoCA)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Bottom line is that a stable wired network connection via MoCA should be easily doable for your Roamio OTA, but I primarily need you to confirm that the antenna signal currently routes through the junction box on its way to the Living Room. Is the antenna coax run coupled using a simple barrel connector in the junction box, or what?

Or, simply, how *does* the antenna line route to the Roamio OTA?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Basically, your problem situation sounds quite similar to that recently facing another poster, and you may benefit from the solution that worked for them (with the caveat that your DVR doesn't support MoCA natively, and so you'll need to buy a MoCA adapter to co-locate with the Roamio OTA to provide its wired network connection).

See this thread: Cannot watch/record OTA when connected to MoCA network

p.s. Though I may be getting ahead of myself, since you haven't yet confirmed how your devices are currently interconnected.


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

Sorry to be late in getting back here. I suspected bad internet somewhere and was able to pin it on Cox. The tech just left and everything seems to be running smooth and strong. Turns out to be a bent cable at the node across the street, tech replaced and back up to 100mps and no drop on the mini. Running the powerline from the router to the Tivo to the Mini upstairs on the MoCA. I'll check back in a day or 2 and we'll see if it's still good. Looks promising. I appreciate everyone's help


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Glad to hear it's working for you. The previous replies will be waiting if/when any troubles return.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> Running the powerline from the router to the Tivo to the Mini upstairs on the MoCA.


More detail would be needed to evaluate alternatives to the Powerline connection (arguably the weak link in your setup). See earlier post, if/when.


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

well it worked for about a day and went right back to doing the same. I had planned on an additional Mini so picked one up set up only to find the same. Since it's a vaulted ceiling I will run a drop for the antenna into guest room and set the tuner there with internet so I can run direct ethernet and use the Mini's in the Master and LR ..Starting to wonder about a top thread referring to 20.6.3.RC7. I set up the laptop and see I have 50mps coming from the powerline. How much speed does the MoCA need? Paying for 150mps


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

That's an option.

See also posts 6-9.


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

*Junction Box*

coax point-of-entry run from cable provider (strictly for cable Internet service) *> Correct*
PoE MoCA filter_ *> Could move from outside entry to indoor junction @ pre-splitter.*_
Splitters:_ *> Internet & Ant connect through Diplexer into 4 way splitter with each travel to desired rooms*_
Amp:_ *> None*_
*Roof

Antenna (coax run thru junction box) > Clearstream Ant. 45 miles W of Phx picks up 65% signal
Some Room > Den/Office

Cable Internet: > Surfboard (new), Netgear AC1900, Up to 150mps (inconsistent Cox)
MoCA adapter: > ActionTec Bridge (from Tivo)
Splitter: > BAMF 4 way Bi-Dir MoCA 5-2300MHZ
Powerline adapter: Netgear Ethernet from Router to LR Tuner
More to come ...
*


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

*Junction Box*

coax point-of-entry run from cable provider (strictly for cable Internet service) *> Correct*
PoE MoCA filter_ *> Could move from outside entry to indoor junction @ pre-splitter.*_
Splitters:_ *> Internet & Ant connect through Diplexer into 4 way splitter with each travel to desired rooms*_
Amp:_ *> None*_
*Roof
*


*

Antenna (coax run thru junction box) > Clearstream Ant. 45 miles W of Phx picks up 65% signal
*
*Some Room > Den/Office
*


*

Cable Internet: > Surfboard (new), Netgear AC1900, Up to 150mps (inconsistent Cox)

MoCA adapter: > ActionTec Bridge (from Tivo)

Splitter: > BAMF 4 way Bi-Dir MoCA 5-2300MHZ

Powerline adapter: Netgear Ethernet to LR Tuner
*
*Living Room *(single coax run to junction box): _*> Correct*_

Roamio OTA :*> Correct*
Powerline adapter: _*> Correct*_
*Bedroom* (single coax run to junction box)

Mini (connected via coax/MoCA):* > Correct now with Mini #2 in Guest Room*
Just got off phone with Cox Level 2 rep will send tech out tomorrow for line inspection.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> Splitters:_ *> Internet & Ant connect through Diplexer into 4 way splitter with each travel to desired rooms*_


This doesn't seem possible, since your Internet and OTA antenna signals are both down in the same frequency range: 5-1002 MHz, and the diplexer's splice frequency (assuming an antenna/satellite diplexer) is just above the OTA frequency limit at 806 MHz.

Signal frequencies:
OTA: 40-806 MHz
cable (TV/Internet): 5-1002 MHz​Diplexer passpand frequencies:
ANT port: 40-806 MHz
SAT port: 950-2150 MHz​
As you can see from the specified frequency ranges for OTA, cable TV and an example diplexer, if you *are* using a diplexer as described, I expect either your antenna or Internet signals are taking a severe hit. I'd recommend double-checking the connections (uploading a pic of the junction box would be helpful); and can you report the diplexer's model #.

That said, the parallel thread linked above includes a configuration showing how a diplexer could be used to send *just* your MoCA and OTA antenna signals to the Living Room, allowing you to use a MoCA adapter in the Living Room to provide a wired networking connection to the Roamio OTA. The difference maker is that the MoCA technology employed in TiVos uses frequencies up in the satellite range (MoCA "D band") ...

Signal frequencies:
*OTA: 40-806 MHz*
cable (TV/Internet): 5-1002 MHz
*MoCA (D band): 1125-1675 MHz*​Diplexer passpand frequencies:
*ANT (VHF/UHF) port: 40-806 MHz
SAT port: 950-2150 MHz*​
... allowing use of a diplexer for merging or splitting OTA & MoCA signals.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

One key consideration that needs to be ironed-out: to how many rooms do you need the raw OTA signal delivered? Just the room with the Roamio OTA?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Assuming you need the OTA signal delivered ONLY to the Roamio OTA, here's the diagram from the other thread, demonstrating how to employ a diplexer to get the OTA & MoCA signals to your Living Room (Line #2 in the diagram).

The difference between this diagram and what you described is that the diplexer is filtering OUT most of the cable TV/Internet signals from the line heading to the DVR (preventing any OTA/cable conflicts) but *is* passing through the MoCA signals -- with your cable modem & MoCA adapter connected via Lines 1 or 3, receiving the cable Internet signal unmolested by any diplexer.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

And here's basically the same configuration, except the cable Internet signal has been branched-off with an initial 2-way splitter, to ensure the best possible signal is delivered to the cable modem (now assumed to be fed via Line #1 in the diagram).

NOTE: The "N-way splitter" in the diagram should have as few outputs as needed, to avoid unnecessary signal loss, and any unused output ports should be capped with a 75-ohm terminator (e.g.). In the special case of needing only 3 lines total, you could use an unbalanced 3-way splitter (e.g.) in place of the 2-way and N-way splitters, feeding the modem from the low-loss output of the 3-way.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> Splitters:_ > Internet & Ant *connect through Diplexer into 4 way splitter* with each travel to desired rooms ..._
> Antenna (coax run thru junction box) _> Clearstream Ant. 45 miles W of Phx *picks up 65% signal* ..._
> 
> ... Just got off phone with Cox Level 2 rep will send tech out tomorrow for line inspection.


Aside from enabling MoCA connectivity from the Living Room, the above diagrams should improve your OTA antenna signal strength received at the Roamio OTA, since the OTA signal would now be bypassing the splitter; and your Internet connectivity should improve, as well, assuming you *did* have the Internet and OTA feeds merging via an antenna/satellite diplexer.


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

I would prefer to have the OTA signal right to the Roameo, right now I didnt split to all rooms. I wasnt sure about 5 split. So it would be fine to have in 1 room only.

I used that same diagram #1 to arrange that way. try to get pic up soon.
Again I dont get why everything was fine for first 6 months.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> I would prefer to have the OTA signal right to the Roameo, ... I wasnt sure about 5 split. So it would be fine to have in 1 room only.


Ok, then either of the above diagrams should work, provided you're using the described components, and the components are working properly.



Robin_Banks said:


> right now I didnt split to all rooms.


Your above comment indicates otherwise...


Robin_Banks said:


> Splitters:_ > Internet & Ant connect through Diplexer into 4 way splitter with each travel to desired rooms_


...but the pic of the junction box should clear that up -- and the current connections don't much matter if you shift to either of the recommended diagrams (though knowing the current setup might be informative).



Robin_Banks said:


> Again I dont get why everything was fine for first 6 months.


I don't get between Powerline adapters and their owners. I'd just offer that why the Powerline connection quality/reliability changed is moot if you can establish a MoCA connection between the modem/gateway and Roamio location.


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

I set up the junction to match the image in #20. I did add a BAMF 2 way split to add 2 non-critical rooms since the 4 way was short 2 rooms. Impeded internet may be a different issue altogether...will find out here very soon.


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

Didn't last long. Still dropping signal. Not sure if this may have an impact I was told "it wouldnt hurt" from Cox guy to have a 2nd POE filter near Coax Ant outside..Suspect?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> I set up the junction to match the image in #20.





Robin_Banks said:


> I was told "it wouldnt hurt" from Cox guy to have a 2nd POE filter near Coax Ant outside.


The diagram in post #20 includes 2 "PoE" MoCA filters, one for each of the cable provider and antenna lines. They're best installed on the input to the first distribution device encountered from the point-of-entry, to shrink the MoCA network as much as possible. You shouldn't need any other MoCA filters beyond the 2 in the diagram. (Others using tuning adapters or older MoCA-ignorant modems often require protective MoCA filters on the inputs to these devices, but that isn't the case with your setup.)



Robin_Banks said:


> I did add a BAMF 2 way split to add 2 non-critical rooms since the 4 way was short 2 rooms.


A diagram or picture of your setup as it exists would be helpful, including model #s for any splitters or filters used.



Robin_Banks said:


> Didn't last long. Still dropping signal.


What's "dropping signal"?

Is the Roamio OTA failing to connect via MoCA to the router (aided by a MoCA adapter co-located with the Roamio OTA)? Was the Powerline gear removed from the setup once the Roamio OTA's MoCA connection was established?

p.s. With the Roamio OTA networked via a MoCA adapter, what is your MoCA-connected Mini reporting for MoCA stats for the connected nodes (there should be 3)?


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)




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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

.I can move the 2 POE closer to close loop better. The OTA is fine no drops or loss of connection.



krkaufman said:


> The diagram in post #20 includes 2 "PoE" MoCA filters, one for each of the cable provider and antenna lines. They're best installed on the input to the first distribution device encountered from the point-of-entry, to shrink the MoCA network as much as possible. You shouldn't need any other MoCA filters beyond the 2 in the diagram. (Others using tuning adapters or older MoCA-ignorant modems often require protective MoCA filters on the inputs to these devices, but that isn't the case with your setup.)
> 
> A diagram or picture of your setup as it exists would be helpful, including model #s for any splitters or filters used.
> 
> ...


 How would I check that?


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Robin,
The splitters you are using are not really MoCA rated. Mentioning "MoCA" in the product description doesn't really mean anything. While it is possible that one of your MoCA devices has started to fail, the least expensive route at this point may be to swap out the splitters for one's which are truly MoCA rated and many others here have found to get the job done, when others have failed. The MoCA rated splitters are from Verizon and Holland, here is a link for the Holland brand, just avoid the lower ones labeled for Directv. Cable and Satellite Tools - Distributor of Tools for CATV, Satellite, Home Theater, Security, Telecom
If you are reluctant to buy anything else, send me a PM and I will send you a couple splitters to test, and if they solve the problem, you can pay me what you think they are worth.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> .I can move the 2 POE closer to close loop better.


The 2 pics were helpful (edit: thanks!), but were missing key components (especially the MoCA filters, and primary splitter?) and fail to demonstrate key links between components owing to coax lines running out of frame. I'd normally also suggest looking at upgrading your splitters to known-good MoCA 2.0-rated splitters (e.g.), but first want to confirm we're on the same page...



Robin_Banks said:


> The OTA is fine no drops or loss of connection.


The goal of the rewired junction box is to enable MoCA connectivity for the Roamio OTA. Is the Roamio OTA now networked over MoCA (via a co-located MoCA adapter) with the new configuration, and the Powerline adapters removed from the setup?



Robin_Banks said:


> How would I check that?


Assuming you meant checking the MoCA stats from the Mini, see here (same link posted above).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

fcfc2 said:


> The splitters you are using are not really MoCA rated. Mentioning "MoCA" in the product description doesn't really mean anything.


The pictured BAMF splitters don't even mention MoCA, unlike some other BAMF splitters I've seen; they just list a supported frequency range of 5-2300 MHz. That said, given the previous descriptions for Robin_Bank's setup, I didn't think we yet crossed the Holmes threshold in regards to the splitters. The weak link, in my opinion, is the Powerline segment, so my view is that the Roamio OTA needs to be converted to a MoCA network connection first.

edit: p.s. Though the splitters themselves aren't labeled as MoCA-compatible, BAMF does appear to be marketing them that way; see Amazon here and here: "Coax Cable Splitter Bi-Directional MoCA 5-2300MHz," with the first bullet in the description making the ludicrous claim: "5-2300 MHz (2.3GHz) RF Bi-Directional Digital Coax/ Coaxial Cable Splitter for CATV and Satellite and great for MoCa." The claim is phony because a good splitter for cable *and* satellite would have high port-to-port isolation at both cable and satellite frequencies, which would be bad for MoCA (i.e. the high port isolation in the satellite range).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> p.s. With the Roamio OTA networked via a MoCA adapter, what is your MoCA-connected Mini reporting for MoCA stats for the connected nodes (there should be 3)?


Correction. I believe you should now have 4 MoCA nodes; I forgot about the additional Mini in the Guest Room ...

MoCA adapter at modem/router (Den/Office)
TiVo Mini (Bedroom)
TiVo Mini (Guest Room)
MoCA adapter at Roamio OTA (Living Room)​
The TX/RX PHY rates and TX/RX power estimates for each node are relevant; ideally the PHY rates will be 250+Mbps, TX power estimates in the negative dBm range, and RX power estimate around 0.5 dBm or lower.


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

The TX/RX PHY rates: 283 & 285. At the tuner it _view network status _shows only MAC addy and Config. @Mini it shows the rates and 3 modes.

Whatever splitters are needed I can get them just need to know which.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Ok, this will hopefully be my last post until I hear back from you. I just wanted to post that I think I understand your posted pics of the junction box, now, given the assumptions noted in the annotated image, below.

The pic indicates a setup similar to the diagram in post #20, except the splitters are reversed from how you'd want them installed to minimize signal loss enroute to the modem.

the cable Internet feed should be going into the 2-way splitter at A[in];
one output of the 2-way splitter should be feeding the 4-way splitter at B[in];
the other output of the 2-way splitter should be feeding the modem line;
a MoCA filter should be installed on the diplexer's ANT (VHF/UHF) input -- as the PoE MoCA filter for your antenna line;
a MoCA filter should be installed on the 2-way splitter's input (assuming you've made the above changes!) -- as the PoE MoCA filter for your cable provider line.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> The TX/RX PHY rates: 283 & 285


Those numbers look great. But how many nodes is the MoCA network status screen reporting, and are all the nodes reporting those levels? And what are the power estimate levels? (Feel free to upload screenshots of the MoCA network status pages if you don't want to transcribe all the data.)

And, most importantly, the question of how your Roamio OTA is connecting remains a mystery...


krkaufman said:


> The goal of the rewired junction box is to enable MoCA connectivity for the Roamio OTA. Is the Roamio OTA now networked over MoCA (via a co-located MoCA adapter) with the new configuration, and the Powerline adapters removed from the setup?


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

Cox was showing problems with connections, tech re-cabled at junction... Still dropping connection. Pic to follow of reconfig


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

Essentially he place a pass thru where the 2 way would go. I moved all filters in The green tape is Cox feed going to 4 way and to modem. The blue tape is Ant. goes to LR Tuner. Same result. The black feed from diplexer goes to out on 4 way not sure if Ant signal send to all but it works just drops connectivity


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

I can drop powerline for wireless conn. not sure if its an improvement


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> Same result


I don't know what "same result" means -- or at least it means something different to you than it does to me. At this point I'm not even sure we're working towards the same goal: *establishing a MoCA connection for the Roamio OTA and removing the Powerline adapters from your setup *(in order to improve the network reliability between your Minis and their host DVR).


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

Same result means the Mini V85 lost connection after 4-5 min on. I have a MoCA connection it just keeps dropping


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> I can drop powerline for wireless conn. not sure if its an improvement


No, you're going to drop the Powerline adapters in favor of a MoCA connection for the Roamio OTA. (!)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

The goal is reliable networking between your Minis and Roamio OTA. It is my educated view that this is easily achievable by establishing a MoCA connection for the Roamio OTA, as demonstrated via a parallel thread, here.

It is my current understanding that at no point (within this thread's troubleshooting) has a MoCA connection been attempted for the Roamio OTA -- and now, in fact, the Cox technician's wiring changes has taken us even further from the objective. The Cox technician's work needs to be undone, per my previous post #34, above.

Also, how many MoCA adapters do you have available? Just the one that is currently in use as your MoCA bridge, or do you have another MoCA adapter available that could be located with the Roamio OTA?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Reviewing the latest pic of the Cox's technician's changes, you should still be able to _try_ establishing a MoCA connection for the Roamio OTA, as-is, provided you have a second MoCA adapter for placement near the Roamio OTA; however, I'm not sure how that 9dB "TAP" device will affect the MoCA signals passing through it.

I remain of the opinion that the TAP device isn't needed. (The technician's adding the TAP device was a near equivalent to my suggestion, above, to redirect the cable Internet feed to the 2-way splitter, to preserve the cable signal strength going to the modem.) If you have any difficulty establishing MoCA connectivity for a MoCA adapter connected to the Living Room coax run, with this post-tech setup, I'd consider reconfiguring your junction box according to my recommendations above, to remove the TAP and its associated losses from the lines.

p.s. One oddity of the latest pic is that it appears you now have one more coax run connected than previously, correct? (The cable modem run is now connected to the "OUT" port of the TAP device, but all the output ports of the splitters remain connected, as well.)


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

krkaufman said:


> p.s. One oddity of the latest pic is that it appears you now have one more coax run connected than previously, correct?


 Yes since I had avail placed 2nd bdrm on board just removed for simplicity. Here's what we have now


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

Powerlines out Wirelss on..Only 1 bridge. However I may just move everything upstairs in LR #2 and drop the ant right there then set up modem and Tivo w/ethernet I doubt I ever have a problem again.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> Yes since I had avail placed 2nd bdrm on board just removed for simplicity. Here's what we have now


That image seems cut off.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> Powerlines out Wirelss on..Only 1 bridge. However I may just move everything upstairs in LR #2 and drop the ant right there then set up modem and Tivo w/ethernet I doubt I ever have a problem again.


Who said to convert the Roamio OTA from Powerline to Wireless?!?

Ok, I'd like to stop wasting each other's time if we're not working towards the same goal. Is there a reason you're not answering any of my questions regarding MoCA connectivity for the Roamio OTA or whether you have a second MoCA adapter available for providing a MoCA connection for the Roamio OTA?


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

There is noway to connect either powerline or wireless or ultimately move everything


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

I said there was only 1 MoCa bridge, adapter whatever its called. The MoCA connectivity is there just keeps dropping.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> Yes since I had avail placed 2nd bdrm on board just removed for simplicity. Here's what we have now


From the cropped image uploaded, I can only see the connections to the 2-way and the diplexer.... and it appears that you HAVE removed the TAP from the setup -- as the green-taped coax line (which I believe to be your incoming Cox signal) is now connecting to the input port of your 2-way splitter. Great. Unfortunately, I can't see from the image where the output ports of the 2-way are now connecting.

Also, the blue-taped OTA antenna feed (if I'm understanding correctly) appears to have been erroneously reconnected to the diplexer's IN/OUT port. The OTA antenna feed was perfect before, connecting to a PoE MoCA filter attached to the diplexer's "ANT" port. The diplexer's IN/OUT port should run to the Living Room, and the diplexer's "SAT" port should be connected to an output on your 4-way splitter.


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

finally every pic too L


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

krkaufman said:


> From the cropped image uploaded, I can only see the connections to the 2-way and the diplexer.... and it appears that you HAVE removed the TAP from the setup -- as the green-taped coax line (which I believe to be your incoming Cox signal) is now connecting to the input port of your 2-way splitter. Great. Unfortunately, I can't see from the image where the output ports of the 2-way are now connecting.
> 
> Also, the blue-taped OTA antenna feed (if I'm understanding correctly) appears to have been erroneously reconnected to the diplexer's IN/OUT port. The OTA antenna feed was perfect before, connecting to a PoE MoCA filter attached to the diplexer's "ANT" port. The diplexer's IN/OUT port should run to the Living Room, and the diplexer's "SAT" port should be connected to an output on your 4-way splitter.


OK give me a min ....Done


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

OK should be right


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> I said there was only 1 MoCa bridge, adapter whatever its called. The MoCA connectivity is there just keeps dropping.


I understand that you only have 1 MoCA adapter currently connected. I had been working from the assumption that you owned a 2nd MoCA adapter as you'd stated elsewhere that you'd attempted a MoCA connection for the Roamio OTA, which would have required a second MoCA adapter.

Indeed, if you only have a single MoCA adapter total in your home, then you will NOT be able to establish a wired network connection for the Roamio OTA via MoCA, with all the perfectly functional recommendations in the world at your disposal.

So, yeah, your option would seem to be to stick with the current device locations and acquire a 2nd MoCA adapter to enable a wired network connection for the Roamio OTA, or move the Roamio OTA to a location where it can be connected via Ethernet.


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

So adding an addition Actiontec MoCA bridge at the Tivo OTA then run coax from wall into adapter then to Tivo tuner the Cat 6 for ethernet to back of Tivo ? Sound right or would I even the need Cat 6


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> The MoCA connectivity is there just keeps dropping.


As I stated previously, the Mini's "MoCA connectivity" isn't necessarily dropping; the Mini is losing network connectivity with its host DVR -- which could be attributable to any networking segment or component between the Mini and Roamio OTA, including the hardware/software inside the TiVo devices, as you've alluded to previously. It had been my theory that the Powerline segment was your weak link, and that enabling MoCA connectivity to the Roamio OTA -- requiring a 2nd MoCA adapter(!) -- would probably solve your issue. At a minimum, the MoCA connection for the Roamio OTA would at least bring your setup within the parameters for escalating the issue to TiVo support, if the connectivity issues continued.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> So adding an addition Actiontec MoCA bridge at the Tivo OTA then run coax from wall into adapter then to Tivo tuner the Cat 6 for ethernet to back of Tivo ? Sound right or would I even the need Cat 6


Exactly right. You already have the coax coming from the wall, right?, but it's running directly into the Roamio OTA. If you acquire a MoCA adapter that has a 2nd coax port labeled "TV/RF Out," then the Roamio OTA could be connected to this passthrough port; however, if this MoCA adapter has only a single coax port, like a TiVo Bridge, you'd need a splitter to direct the coax coming from the wall to both the Roamio OTA and the MoCA adapter. (Though you could also use a diplexer in place of a splitter in this special case, if you have another DPD2 handy, with the Roamio OTA connecting to the diplexer "VHF/UHF" port and the diplexer "SAT" port connecting to the MoCA adapter's coax in port. Using a diplexer would provide a slight benefit over a splitter in terms of signal strength retention.)

And, yes, the Roamio OTA would connect to the MoCA adapter's Ethernet port and the Roamio OTA would be configured for an Ethernet connection.

edit: p.s. Of course, the above assumes we get the junction box back in order, per the diagram from post #20.


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

krkaufman said:


> Exactly right. You already have the coax coming from the wall, right?, but it's running directly into the Roamio OTA. If you acquire a MoCA adapter that has a 2nd coax port labeled "TV/RF Out," then the Roamio OTA could be connected to this passthrough port; however, if this MoCA adapter has only a single coax port, like a TiVo Bridge, you'd need a splitter to direct the coax coming from the wall to both the Roamio OTA and the MoCA adapter.
> 
> And, yes, the Roamio OTA would connect to the MoCA adapter's Ethernet port and the Roamio OTA would be configured for an Ethernet connection.
> 
> edit: p.s. Of course, the above assumes we get the junction box back in order, per the diagram from post #20.


Perfect that what I shall do, the adapter I got from Tivo has 2 coax ports, Ill just pick up another...so far connectivity seems ok but would take few days to know. Let me know if there is a better splitter.


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

I would like to take a moment and thank you immensely for your time and efforts. I know over web it can be difficult, but wouldn't know what to do otherwise. May the best be bestowed on you and you family and Happy New Year. Thank You again


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Do you have any more DPD2 diplexers sitting around? (Aside from the one currently installed in the junction box?)


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

Yes , bought a 2pk


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> Here's what we have now


Ok, on seeing the additional pics, the connections look good EXCEPT FOR the changes you made to the diplexer.

*Good!:* The green-taped coax line (incoming Cox signal) is connected to a MoCA filter attached to the input port of your 2-way splitter, and one output of the 2-way splitter connects to the input of your 4-way. I'm assuming the other output of the 2-way initial splitter is running to your Den/Office (where the modem and bridging MoCA adapter are located). Right? If so, this portion is cabled just as diagrammed in post #20.

*BAD!:* The blue-taped OTA antenna feed and MoCA filter are erroneously connected to the diplexer's IN/OUT port. As embedded in the image, below...

The coax line from the OTA antenna should connect to a MoCA filter attached to the diplexer's 'VHF/UHF" (antenna) port;
The diplexer's "SAT" port (through which the MoCA signals will pass) is correctly connected to an output of the 4-way splitter; but...
The diplexer's "IN/OUT" port must connect to the Living Room, carrying the combined OTA & MoCA signals to the Roamio OTA and soon-to-be-acquired MoCA adapter.


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

Yes sorry that pic was not updated to show the changes you suggested. That was corrected. And Yes to the splitter running to the Den/Office.. TY


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> Yes , bought a 2pk


Then you may want to review the light gray text I added later to this post, above:


krkaufman said:


> however, if this MoCA adapter has only a single coax port, like a TiVo Bridge, you'd need a splitter to direct the coax coming from the wall to both the Roamio OTA and the MoCA adapter. (Though you could also use a diplexer in place of a splitter in this special case, if you have another DPD2 handy, with the Roamio OTA connecting to the diplexer "VHF/UHF" port and the diplexer "SAT" port connecting to the MoCA adapter's coax in port. Using a diplexer would provide a slight benefit over a splitter in terms of signal strength retention.)



If your MoCA adapter has a 2nd RF port, it has an internal diplexer doing effectively the same thing; so *this suggestion only applies if your new MoCA adapter lacks a 2nd coax port*. And use of a diplexer in this way only works *in this case* because the coax coming from the wall will be carrying OTA & MoCA signals and you need OTA-only going to one device and MoCA-only to the other. (You're not splitting the signal as much as splicing or redirecting portions of it.) Use of a diplexer in this way will incur less signal loss than if you were to use a splitter; but, again, it's a special case as *diplexers are NOT replacements for splitters, generally*.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> Yes sorry that pic was not updated to show the changes you suggested. That was corrected. And Yes to the splitter running to the Den/Office.. TY


Great! It sounds like everything in the junction box should be wired and ready to go, just waiting for the new MoCA adapter.

While waiting for the MoCA adapter to arrive, you might check the TV tuner signal strength reported by the Roamio OTA. I'd be interested if you see any improvement (or degradation) relative to your previous junction box configuration.


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

Signal strength from ant. correct? I will check that probably tomorrow and get back here. Happy New Year.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> Signal strength from ant. correct? I will check that probably tomorrow and get back here. Happy New Year.


Yes, antenna signal strength as reported by the Roamio OTA. And, separately, you could run a speed test from a device wired to your home router to test your Internet download/upload speeds. ... just to get a baseline on where your non-MoCA issues stand.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

And pre-Happy New Year back! ... see ya next year ...


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

Signal strength is 67-72 ...Internet speeds @ 125mps


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> *Signal strength is 67-72*


So maybe a little better antenna signal reception, per previous comment...


Robin_Banks said:


> Clearstream Ant. 45 miles W of Phx picks up 65% signal


... and word has it that 72 is the max signal the Roamio OTA will report for OTA signal strength.


jth tv said:


> 72 is pretty much the max most see with a Roamio after letting the signal strength settle down for a minute or so.



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


Robin_Banks said:


> *...Internet speeds @ 125mps*


So this seems better for Internet speed than some previous comments, but short of the spec'd rate you're paying for. It may be close enough that you'd want to be sure no one else was doing anything like streaming UHD off Netflix when you run the test. And maybe check with any neighbors who might have the same service to see what they're getting.


Robin_Banks said:


> Turns out to be a bent cable at the node across the street, tech replaced and back up to 100mps





Robin_Banks said:


> Paying for 150mps





Robin_Banks said:


> Impeded internet may be a different issue altogether...will find out here very soon.


I believe a good MoCA 2.0-compatible 2-way splitter would be preferable for MoCA performance (Holland GHS-PRO-M series recommended; see here, here), but you'll probably need to rule out the TAP as a benefit to your Internet performance, to keep any Cox technician from trying to put it back in place.

Once you have the MoCA connection to the Roamio OTA working, and the Internet speeds and MoCA stats under that configuration documented, you could try replacing the initial 2-way splitter with that 9dB TAP (OUT port going to Den/Office[modem]; TAP port going to 4-way splitter input) to see if your Internet speeds can be improved without affecting your MoCA connectivity.

I'm guessing "no improvement," but you would have at least tried the configuration left you by the technician. Speaking of which, did you try an Internet speed test, already, after the technician had put the 9dB TAP into place? If so, what speed did you see? (i.e. Maybe testing the 9dB TAP again is unnecessary.)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Also, if/when you're OK with a complete shutdown of your TV/TiVo side of your setup, a simple test to see what Internet speeds your Cox line is capable of delivering would be to, temporarily, remove everything else from your setup except the modem & router. You'd use a good quality barrel connector to join your incoming Cox line directly with the coax feed going to your modem in the Den/Office, and then remove the in-room splitter feeding the BOLT/TA/modem and just feed the coax directly to the modem. If this direct connection isn't hitting your spec'd rate of 150 Mbps, then dithering over a 2-way splitter or TAP isn't of much benefit.


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

krkaufman said:


> So this seems better for Internet speed than some previous comments, but short of the spec'd rate you're paying for.


 I did find that my desktop does not support 5ghz..most of the problem and it is _*up to 150mps*_ so usually between 100-150.



krkaufman said:


> then dithering over a 2-way splitter or TAP isn't of much benefit.


 I feel pretty confident now with the speeds I have checked direct to modem and we hit 165mps+

And I will pick up and 8 way if thats good bc I have 6 rooms


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> I did find that my desktop does not support 5ghz..most of the problem and it is _*up to 150mps*_ so usually between 100-150.


Oh, I was assuming you were testing the Internet speed using a wired Ethernet connection to your router; that's all the Cox spec covers. What happens inside the house, whether wireless, Ethernet, MoCA or Powerline is on the customer.

Good to hear re: 165+Mbps. Are you seeing that same 165+Mbps with the initial 2-way splitter in place, rather than direct-connected to the modem, and with the bridging MoCA adapter connected -- and _using a wired Ethernet connection for the testing laptop/PC_?



Robin_Banks said:


> And I will pick up and 8 way if thats good bc I have 6 rooms


You'll want to keep the initial 2-way split in place to maintain the cable Internet signal strength going to the cable modem in the Den/Office. You'd then need to connect the remaining 5 rooms off the 2nd output of the initial 2-way splitter.

Looking at the specs for the Holland GHS-PRO-M splitters, they all seem to have a similar port isolation loss, so the 8-way splitter would seem to be a good choice for this mostly-for-MoCA splitter.

You'll be leaving at least 3 output ports on the 8-way unused, so you'll also want to acquire some 75-ohm terminators to cap any unused splitter ports -- or wall outlet ports if no end devices are connected for a given run.


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

krkaufman said:


> Are you seeing that same 165+Mbps with the initial 2-way splitter in place, rather than direct-connected to the modem, and with the BOLT and tuning adapter also connected -- and _using a wired Ethernet connection for the testing laptop/PC_?


 Do you think I can visit that if needed after the #2 MoCA adapter is installed?

Perfect I will order the splitters+ .. TY


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> Do you think I can visit that if needed after the #2 MoCA adapter is installed?


Certainly; actually better, really.

Since you already reported 125 Mbps via a wireless connection, I'm guessing a wired connection to the router would likely be close to that 165+Mbps max you've seen. Testing your Internet connection (using a wired connection to the router) after you have all your MoCA-related tweaks in place would be a better use of your time, at this point, as a final confirmation that everything is up-to-spec after all the changes have been implemented.

I have a couple Ethernet-capable laptops handy so take the wired Internet speed tests for granted.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

As a slight tweak to your soon-to-be-MoCA-connected Living Room setup... Do you have other devices in the Living Room, where the Roamio OTA is located, that would also benefit from a wired Ethernet connection?

If so, you could connect your new MoCA adapter's Ethernet port to a network switch located in the Living Room, and connect the Roamio OTA and any other nearby Ethernet-capable devices to the network switch to provide multiple devices with wired network connections back to the router through the new MoCA adapter.

edit: p.s. Yes, this is also something that could easily (and wisely) wait until after you get the new MoCA adapter working properly, supplying a wired network connection for the Roamio OTA.


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

No nothing else in LR. but I was thinking the same

I supposed this is part due to current set up but I now @ Mini get choppy newly recorded playback and live TV. I then shortly will get error _*Network to Slow*_ so currently unable to watch.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> I supposed this is part due to current set up but I now @ Mini get choppy newly recorded playback and live TV. I then shortly will get error _*Network to Slow*_ so currently unable to watch.


Yes, those issues *should* go away when you have a MoCA connection to the Roamio OTA.

Though I'm not sure why the current symptoms would be any different than before given you haven't changed the Powerline adapter setup. Have you tried unplugging and reconnecting the Powerline adapters?

Hopefully the new MoCA adapter will arrive soon.


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

Tried to run w/o Powerline. Back to lost connection no biggie better than choppy. Wait till Wednesday...All 3 of my cpu's cant read 5ghz signal..maybe time to upgrade. Be back Wed. with full report.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> Tried to run w/o Powerline. Back to lost connection no biggie better than choppy.


Oh, were you trying to watch from the Mini with the Roamio OTA set to a wireless connection?!? If so, yeah, that would be even worse than a Powerline connection (based on comments I've seen on TCF).

And I take it from the "back to lost connection" that you've now reverted to the Powerline connection for the Roamio OTA. As you indicate, this should be cleared-up when you get the new MoCA adapter.



Robin_Banks said:


> All 3 of my cpu's cant read 5ghz signal..maybe time to upgrade. Be back Wed. with full report.


If by CPUs you mean computers, you might also look into MoCA connections for any fixed-location computers, to free your airwaves for the devices that don't have other options. But as with the earlier posts, that's a side project that can wait until after the new MoCA adapter is up and running.


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

Well I'm happy to report all seems to be well. Still waiting for the splitters and caps and replaced a questionable lead with RG6. Waited 12 hours (seems like the tivos need to "settle in") and gave it a stress test will all TV's on and streaming Pandora from LR no connectivity loss on other TV's. 
Good call for the 2nd adapter. TY


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> Well I'm happy to report all seems to be well. Still waiting for the splitters and caps and replaced a questionable lead with RG6. Waited 12 hours (seems like the tivos need to "settle in") and gave it a stress test will all TV's on and streaming Pandora from LR no connectivity loss on other TV's.


Great to hear(!)... though I'd hardly call streaming Pandora a stress test.  If you want to really give the system a workout, you could use KMTTG from a computer (PC/laptop) to identify your highest bandwidth recording and play that on any Minis you have while simultaneously downloading recordings to the computer using KMTTG *and* streaming Full HD Internet video to the Roamio OTA. (TiVo Desktop could be used in place of KMTTG for the download/transfer part of the stress test; I just don't know if TD provides a means to view the bitrates for the recorded content on the DVR, though sports programs such as college/pro football are a good bet for being the highest bitrate you'll see.)

That should give the new Living Room MoCA connection a workout, with each activity drawing bandwidth up to...

Mini (Guest Room) ~ 20 Mbps
Mini (Bedroom) ~ 20 Mbps
Full HD Internet stream on Roamio OTA ~ 5 Mbps
+
KMTTG download from Roamio OTA ~ ?? Mbps (may take whatever is left?)​
Hopefully you'll find the "settling in" symptoms a thing of the past, now that the Powerline segment has been upgraded to MoCA.

Another thing you may want to do before your new splitters/caps arrive is check and document your MoCA network statistics as reported from either Mini, to baseline your setup's MoCA stats for the configuration as it stands, today, prior to the additional changes. (I'd be interested to hear what the Mini reports for TX/PX PHY rates and power estimates for the nodes, both today and after that 8-way splitter is added. And be sure to note power estimates, as well; the earlier check only captured PHY rates, and power estimates are another indicator of the coax network quality.)

p.s. Nice catch on the RG6 lead. Simple things can cause big problems.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> Good call for the 2nd adapter.


p.s. The second MoCA adapter wouldn't have been of any value without rewiring the connections in the junction box. If/when you have things working and stable, you may want to get some pics of the junction box and/or take some notes to document just how everything's connected to support the OTA/MoCA feed to the Living Room. (In case someone else, like a cable tech, messes-up what you have.)


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

I'll do that. So all is doing well. The splitters finally arrived on the shanghai express and have all installed. Here are the numbers you asked for (before/after new splitters)
N1: TXPHY 232/238 RXPHY 254/249 TX Est. -27/-14 RX Est. .422/.327
N2: TXPHY 279/272 RXPHY 271/271 TX Est. -27/-14 RX Est. .437/.419
N3: TXPHY 222/252 RXPHY 254/254 TX Est. -27/-14 RX Est. .444/.454

I wont try to do a stress test I have a bit more to do before I can get to that..Thanks a bunch


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

Odd, today I went to complete the last tv with the Mini all set up but cant find LR DVR not sure why, I have the other 2 Minis working fine. Ran cable directly to Mini so know there is no cable issue. The green is the internet going to den where 1 moca bridge and modem then also goes into splitter, same with ant.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> Odd, today I went to complete the last tv with the Mini all set up but cant find LR DVR not sure why, I have the other 2 Minis working fine. Ran cable directly to Mini so know there is no cable issue. The green is the internet going to den where 1 moca bridge and modem then also goes into splitter, same with ant.


At what stage is the Mini failing? Were you able to connect to the Internet and TiVo service and get through the initial setup and software updates?

If the Mini *is* connecting to the Internet and TiVo, MoCA should be fine. It's possible it's just an activation issue with the Mini and your host DVR; a host DVR that's not aware of a new Mini would produce similar symptoms, with the Mini reporting that it cannot connect to the host DVR.

Have you activated the Mini? If so, when? See this post for special steps to expedite activation of a new TiVo Mini. (Fingers crossed it's just this.)


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## Robin_Banks (Mar 31, 2016)

Wow, sure dont remember registering the Mini but yep ..Duh TY


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Robin_Banks said:


> Wow, sure dont remember registering the Mini but yep ..Duh TY


It depends on where you bought it. If you bought direct from TiVo using your account information, it'd be automatically activated and everything would be ready to go by the time the device hits your door. From anywhere else you'll need to register and activate the device per the above linked info.


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