# 20.6.1a RC10?



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

On 8/9 both my Bolt and Roamio were upgraded to 20.6.1a RC7, today my Bolt was upgraded to 20.6.1a RC10, however my Roamio wasn't and stays at 20.6.1a RC7. 

What are other people seeing?


----------



## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

20.6.1.RC14 Bolt


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

markjrenna said:


> 20.6.1.RC14 Bolt


That is what my Premiere is on. Kind of funny I know have a Premiere, Roamio, & Bolt all running different software versions.


----------



## TivoJD (Feb 8, 2005)

I have a plus and a basic Roamio that both got 20.6.1a RC10 today. Minis all stayed behind at 20.6.1 RC14

_Edit: 3 minis all got 20.6.1a RC10 on 8/19_


----------



## Zonker007 (Oct 4, 2015)

TivoJD said:


> I have a plus and a basic Roamio that both got 20.6.1a RC10 today. Minis all stayed behind at 20.6.1 RC14


Same here on my Roamio OTA : 20.6.1a.RC10-USA-6-846

What are the update changes?


----------



## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

Zonker007 said:


> Same here on my Roamio OTA : 20.6.1a.RC10-USA-6-846
> 
> What are the update changes?


most likely bug fixes or preparing for new guide data provider

20.6.1a RC10

2 basic roamios


----------



## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

atmuscarella said:


> What are other people seeing?


I'm seeing a pending restart, which will need to wait for a break in the Olympic recording action before that occurs.


----------



## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

I noticed last night (via Remote kmttg) that my mother's Premiere has already received 20.6.1a.RC10, but she still has Gracenote data.

She is with Cox in AZ also.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Received RC10 on two Roamio boxes. Perhaps this explains the TiVo server slowness yesterday.


----------



## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

20.6.1a.RC10 on Roamio base model. Still using Tribune (Gracenote) guide data based on notice in Copyrights section -- is there any other way to tell whether Rovi data is being used?


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

It's probably Gracenote still, but we can test by comparing upcoming Tivo show descriptions with zap2it.com and tvguide.com.

If it matches zap2it, it's Gracenote.
TV Guide = Rovi.

A lot of show thumbnail artwork will change too.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> It's probably Gracenote still, but we can test by comparing upcoming Tivo show descriptions with zap2it.com and tvguide.com.
> 
> If it matches zap2it, it's Gracenote.
> TV Guide = Rovi.
> ...


Try comparing The Tonight show for next week. Check zap2it, tvguide and titantv. Same issue with the other Jimmy. The Olympics end Sunday so that may help. But the next scheduled update hits 9/1, so that will be another event.


----------



## elm222 (Jan 21, 2015)

The update seems to be a fix for this long thread for a issue with comcast and tivo since back in June.

Yesterday, 11:28 PM #474
mhornet
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Oak Forest, IL
Posts: 14
My Roamio just updated to 20.6.1a.RC10. Checked all of the channels I was having issues with on the Roamio and the were buffering just fine. Did the critical check of the same channels on the Mini's and Success! No more blue circle of death. Now hopefully Comcast wont break anything else.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=541407&page=16


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Zonker007 said:


> Same here on my Roamio OTA : 20.6.1a.RC10-USA-6-846
> 
> What are the update changes?


Last night, after the update, no Audio drops, could be a fluke or a fix. I am hoping.


----------



## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

dlfl said:


> 20.6.1a.RC10 on Roamio base model. Still using Tribune (Gracenote) guide data based on notice in Copyrights section -- is there any other way to tell whether Rovi data is being used?


Ira mentioned the Rovi will be next week the box software updates this week prep for it.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Just got it on my Bolt and one of my minis

Edit: mini looks okay. Lots of missing and generic graphics on bolt. Maybe because of the upcoming change over. Maybe just an indexing thing. Will check in morning.


----------



## Juzbee_Yourself (Jan 17, 2016)

My Bolt just updated to 20.6.1a.RC10-USC-11-849. Wish I knew what changed. Only thing I noticed is that the "going away soon" list has vanished.


----------



## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

Juzbee_Yourself said:


> My Bolt just updated to 20.6.1a.RC10-USC-11-849. Wish I knew what changed. Only thing I noticed is that the "going away soon" list has vanished.


nothing changed it preparing for rovi data beginning next week


----------



## Juzbee_Yourself (Jan 17, 2016)

ajwees41 said:


> nothing changed it preparing for rovi data beginning next week


I stand corrected on my previous post -- after cycling through the menus several times the "Going Away Soon" category reappeared. Forgive me for being behind the curve here, but what is the rovi data going to entail?


----------



## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

Juzbee_Yourself said:


> I stand corrected on my previous post -- after cycling through the menus several times the "Going Away Soon" category reappeared. Forgive me for being behind the curve here, but what is the rovi data going to entail?


no one knows but Tivo was bought buy Rovi and the Guide info was provided by Tribune Media services, which that contract expired and starting sometime next week the guide info will now be be provided by Tivo it self the name of the merged company


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Juzbee_Yourself said:


> I stand corrected on my previous post -- after cycling through the menus several times the "Going Away Soon" category reappeared. Forgive me for being behind the curve here, but what is the rovi data going to entail?


Going away soon only appears when you have a recording that is subject to delete.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> Just got it on my Bolt and one of my minis Edit: mini looks okay. Lots of missing and generic graphics on bolt. Maybe because of the upcoming change over. Maybe just an indexing thing. Will check in morning.


I did a restart today and graphics came back. Included titles and graphics for browsing categories.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

TonyD79 said:


> I did a restart today and graphics came back. Included titles and graphics for browsing categories.


Mine just came back after ten minutes in Standby.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> Mine just came back after ten minutes in Standby.


Standby may have worked. Didn't try it. Restart was very quick.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Got this update on my Premiere. My Roamio still has 20.6.1.


----------



## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

Bolt was updated today to the 1a version.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

ajwees41 said:


> no one knows but Tivo was bought buy Rovi and the Guide info was provided by Tribune Media services, which that contract expired and starting sometime next week the guide info will now be be provided by Tivo it self the name of the merged company


Rovi has no control over TiVo yet. The acquisition will probably happen this quarter. Until then, TiVo is still operating independently of Rovi.


----------



## SFDave (Aug 25, 2006)

I have the 20.6.1a.RC10 update on my Roamio. I use the Roamio to create a Moca network. Since the update, my Moca client can no longer connect to the Roamio. The client is an Actiontec ECB2500C adapter that I use to connect a TiVo Premiere. I wonder if anyone else is having this issue.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

rainwater said:


> Rovi has no control over TiVo yet. The acquisition will probably happen this quarter. Until then, TiVo is still operating independently of Rovi.


And it's mere happenstance that TiVo is changing guide data providers.


----------



## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

rainwater said:


> Rovi has no control over TiVo yet. The acquisition will probably happen this quarter. Until then, TiVo is still operating independently of Rovi.


then why did Ira say http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=542670&highlight=ira

read number 12


----------



## ffitzgerald39 (Apr 17, 2011)

I am in the Chicago area. After 2 forced connections and restarts my Roamio Pro still had the older software and could not record on BBC America from Comcast. I called Tivo yesterday and asked how to get the new software. After they sent a signal and another forced connection and restart was not successful the tech said try and rerun guided setup. As soon as the Roamio tried to connect to go through the set up it stopped to download new software. After 15 minutes it completed the setup and restarted with 20.6.1a.RC10. The tech called back and seemed surprised that it worked. He could not explain why a forced connection or a regular nightly connection had not worked but guided setup did. He took extensive notes and thanked me for helping to solve a problem.


----------



## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

from post #13


elm222 said:


> The update seems to be a fix for this long thread for a issue with comcast and tivo since back in June. ....
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=541407&page=16


Indeed :up: numerous post reports on TCF that RC10 has fixed the h.264 comcast roamio/mini no buffer/record issue. more on that from the thursday Q&A:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10970093#post10970093



Ira Bahr said:


> The H.264 problem is an issue that occurs when playing certain digital content in Comcast's linear broadcast lineup in certain areas around the country. The issue is somewhat technical, but it is related to the structure of the stream and certain hardware limitations with the chip we use in our STBs. We have implemented a reasonably robust workaround that is part of update the that we are doing this week. Eager to hear what you guys think.


and I'm likewise anxious to hear thoughts on this "robust workaround". when I hear "workaround" I think patch job / band-aid fix just to get up and running, not really a true fix, more like an intermediate sidestep way of getting the job done. And when you preface it with "robust" that tells me it was a big patch job. and hints at something along the lines of "well the roamio chip couldn't natively decode the comcast stream so we had to take the stream and work some software magic on it since the hardware wasn't fully compatible to natively handle it". It's just a curious description and one you'd more likely hear from an engineer not a marketing guy. they like big bold glowing descriptions. they don't like to use terms that might diminish the company's work. but doesn't "workaround" imply something less than glowing and a real true fix? to me it does. and robust means this wasn't some simple fix of a few lines of code that were errant. So when a marketing guy says robust workaround, what would the engineer say if he was shooting straight? "we had to patch the crap out of that fubar'd mess between the comcast stream and the broadcom chipset to get it up and running" ? it's like when the mechanic doesn't have the right parts on hand and they are backordered for a real fix but with enough duct tape, epoxy, and creativity gets things held together to get you down the road. not exactly inspiring if you are a roamio owner as to what's under the hood. am wondering if that something, that roboust workaround, may be something a little more sluggish in operation. I've got rc10 on a roamio basic and the older RC14 on a pro and will try to do some comparisons beyond just the obvious h.264 channels fixed on RC10. but we'll see how long RC14 lasts on my pro. days are numbered unless I pull the ethernet. and I'm tempted to do just that regardless as I'm not sure I want both roamios to pull the rovi data - that concerns me. would rather have the pro as a fallback and let the basic be the RC10 Rovi guinea pig.


----------



## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

SFDave said:


> I have the 20.6.1a.RC10 update on my Roamio. I use the Roamio to create a Moca network. Since the update, my Moca client can no longer connect to the Roamio. The client is an Actiontec ECB2500C adapter that I use to connect a TiVo Premiere. I wonder if anyone else is having this issue.


I assume you've already done the basics of rebooting the Tivo as well as the Actiontec? I know I occasionally have issues at one or more Tivo's and my Moca network and always seems related to a brief power failure, where one of the adapters didn't properly reboot during the brief power failure.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

I think it very possible that the reason for the delay in releasing a fix for the H.264 problem is so that they could include it in the release designed to handle the guide data changes.


----------



## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

ffitzgerald39 said:


> After 2 forced connections and restarts my Roamio Pro still had the older software and could not record on BBC America from Comcast. I called Tivo yesterday and asked how to get the new software. After they sent a signal and another forced connection and restart was not successful the tech said try and rerun guided setup.


thanks for the post. I am hoping my roamio pro stays at the back of the bus for getting the update, partly for the reasons cited in prior post. but the guide data changeover could be rough seas ahead. I am already working to get Rovi guide data fixed - you can read that saga here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10971442#post10971442

so I'd like to see the rovi guide data fixes in place prior to the switchover. so I may indeed be pulling the ethernet for the time being on at least one tivo on the network as a safety net / fallback, at least for 11-13 days before it runs out of gracenote/tms data.

I'd recommend looking at http://www.tvguide.com/listings/ to anticipate guide data issues and trying to get corrections in the pipeline sooner vs. later. if you read posts on TCF from WMC users on rovi data, it's less than glowing reviews - plenty of issues. and that thread above in this post is just one thread of many where the issue is getting discussed. and I anticipate the discussion will only heat up more based on yesterday's announcement of the changeover coming so soon.

why does it seem like the dutch boy trying to plug leaks in the ****? the roamio/mini h.264 buffer/record issue gets fixed apparently but now guide data may break. I guess it's so we have something new to talk about on TCF now that apparently the buffer/record issue is seemingly in the rear view mirror. although I am not entirely sold yet on the "robust workaround". but fingers crossed. oh, wait no they are in the **** trying to plug holes, aka typing emails to rovi and the stations to get the rovi guide data fixed. hey Tivo: how about you announce a formal way for users to document and submit rovi guide data issues sooner rather than later? seems like it's more of a sink or swim approach where we are getting thrown in the deep end of the pool like it or not with the changeover and it's one big beta test. but at least with a beta test they have a formal procedure to document issues. where is the procedure to document rovi issues? we can already see what's coming on tv guide. well I know where to find my lifeline, aka ethernet cord to pull, to keep me swimming with the gracenote/tms data for a while at least while the dust settles.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

That dust better settle quick. One month to go until the fall season starts.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

ajwees41 said:


> then why did Ira say http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=542670&highlight=ira
> 
> read number 12


I'm confused. I see nothing about Rovi in #12.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> And it's mere happenstance that TiVo is changing guide data providers.


No. I assume the switch to Rovi was a part of the negotiations that lead to the acquisition.


----------



## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

tivoyahoo said:


> from post #13
> 
> Indeed :up: numerous post reports on TCF that RC10 has fixed the h.264 comcast roamio/mini no buffer/record issue. more on that from the thursday Q&A:
> 
> ...


I didn't like the sound of that either, it implies that the chipset TiVo used for those models does not work with the data set/stream that Comcast is using to convert those channels and TiVo has "fixed" it somehow, a "workaround" which I read as being something less than an ideal solution.

Of course, I suppose the alternative would be to buy new hardware because the change Comcast made has obsoleted those models with that particular chipset.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

rainwater said:


> I'm confused. I see nothing about Rovi in #12.


We're thinking that the "new data" is from Rovi.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

tivoyahoo said:


> thanks for the post. I am hoping my roamio pro stays at the back of the bus for getting the update, partly for the reasons cited in prior post.


All the boxes are getting it this week. In fact, I'm guessing your Roamio Pro wil get it today (mine downloaded it today). This is a super fast rollout for TiVo (surely they have never updated this many boxes in one week).


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

JoeKustra said:


> We're thinking that the "new data" is from Rovi.


Yes, next week we will get the Rovi data. This agreement was in place already whether the acquisition fell through or not.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

keenanSR said:


> I didn't like the sound of that either, it implies that the chipset TiVo used for those models does not work with the data set/stream that Comcast is using to convert those channels and TiVo has "fixed" it somehow, a "workaround" which I read as being something less than an ideal solution.
> 
> Of course, I suppose the alternative would be to buy new hardware because the change Comcast made has obsoleted those models with that particular chipset.


This isn't the first time TiVo has had to fix problems that came about because of Comcast messing with the video stream.

A number of years back, closed captioning used to stop working after Comcast inserted a local commercial into the stream. That was fixed.


----------



## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

rainwater said:


> I'm confused. I see nothing about Rovi in #12.


I believe the poster meant post #12 from the Q&A thread, not question #12 (out of 20). post #12 answer is to question 5 in post #11, both quoted...



David Bott said:


> Question 5:
> 
> Along the same lines, what will the upgrade process to Rovi metadata be for customers? Will there be a software update, or will it flow down seamlessly just as it currently does with daily connections?





Ira Bahr said:


> There is a two-step process. Just this week, we updated the software on the S2-S6 boxes for the new data feeds. Starting next week we will be transitioning these boxes to the new data. During that download which will occur in the early AM hours and take two to three hours, the box will not be fully functional. After that, the DVR will function normally. We've done a ton of testing but we're counting on you guys to post any anomalies you might observe. Right now, we think the most obvious defect will be generic poster art on certain assets.


But was there clarification on this:
"we're counting on you guys to post any anomalies you might observe."

That's spoken like we're part of some big beta test and they are counting on us / putting the onus on us. Not sure that's the right approach, but exactly what is the procedure for posting anomalies if that's how they are approaching it? is there a dedicated thread that Tivo will be following? any submission process? was this clarified? or thought through? and will Tivo be giving feedback? it just seems like an indication that Tivo really hasn't thought this through. If they had, then they would already have a dedicated support page on their website with tracking/case #'s with status updates, not "hey this is happening next week, we're counting on your help, buckle up tight, and I guess you can yell from the backseat if the ride gets bumpy and we'll figure it on the fly by the seat of our pants"



Ira Bahr said:


> Right now, we think the most obvious defect will be generic poster art on certain assets.


Well this just proves they aren't reading the TCF posts. that's ludicrous. No, the most obvious and glaring defect is missing channels and missing guide guide data. Get that right first and then worry about it looking pretty later. If Tivo was reading this board they would know that from the posts of Windows Media Center users using Rovi data. Thinking generic poster art is the biggest defect is another sign Tivo just doesn't have a handle on this and the priorities - which far and away is get the channels and guide data right. do you see posts from WMC users saying the poster art is the big disappointment with Rovi?


----------



## deaners12 (Feb 7, 2016)

Does anyone here have TiVo service through Cogeco in Canada? They only have one model of TiVo box (TiVo T6) with TiVo Minis. Our software is still on 20.5.9 RC15 here with no scheduled software updates in sight.

Makes me wonder if we will even get Rovi guide data here, or if Rovi's purchase of TiVo only affects U.S. clients? I would guess that it's all universal, especially where the data source is considered.

Anybody have any insight on this one?


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

tivoyahoo said:


> Well this just proves they aren't reading the TCF posts. that's ludicrous. No, the most obvious and glaring defect is missing channels and missing guide guide data. Get that right first and then worry about it looking pretty later. If Tivo was reading this board they would know that from the posts of Windows Media Center users using Rovi data. Thinking generic poster art is the biggest defect is another sign Tivo just doesn't have a handle on this and the priorities - which far and away is get the channels and guide data right. do you see posts from WMC users saying the poster art is the big disappointment with Rovi?


You are not taking that sentence in context. It goes hand in hand with the sentence that precedes it.



> We've done a ton of testing but we're counting on you guys to post any anomalies you might observe. Right now, we think the most obvious defect will be generic poster art on certain assets.


Meaning they've done "a ton of testing" and the only issue that they've seen is some assets displaying generic poster art. Any posts here about missing guide data and missed recording are pure speculation at this point.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

tivoyahoo said:


> I believe the poster meant post #12 from the Q&A thread, not question #12 (out of 20). post #12 answer is to question 5 in post #11, both quoted...


Yes, I read that one. It just says TiVo is moving to Rovi data. We already knew that.


----------



## danm628 (May 14, 2002)

keenanSR said:


> I didn't like the sound of that either, it implies that the chipset TiVo used for those models does not work with the data set/stream that Comcast is using to convert those channels and TiVo has "fixed" it somehow, a "workaround" which I read as being something less than an ideal solution.
> 
> Of course, I suppose the alternative would be to buy new hardware because the change Comcast made has obsoleted those models with that particular chipset.





morac said:


> This isn't the first time TiVo has had to fix problems that came about because of Comcast messing with the video stream.
> 
> A number of years back, closed captioning used to stop working after Comcast inserted a local commercial into the stream. That was fixed.


*
Reality check time.*

All ASICs have bugs. It doesn't matter what company made the chip. It doesn't matter what the chip does. It has bugs. New revisions of the chip may fix the bugs but not always. And obviously a new revision of the chip may fix an old bug and introduce some other new problem.

You try to design the chip to not have bugs. You do lots of simulations to validate it's behavior. You do code reviews of the RTL. You follow best practices when writing the RTL to minimize the chance of making an error. You use known good IP blocks to implement functions to minimize the risk. There are still bugs though.

Chips are too complicated to fully simulate every possible sequence that can occur. Big companies have huge server farms that just run simulations of chips. In practice you can't cover the full test space given the speed of simulation (typically millions of times slower than the actual chip). So you check corner cases, conditions where you think there may be issues and then randomly test other combinations. You hope you can run enough tests to find the most likely to occur bugs (timing errors, unsupported events in a given state, etc.).

The bugs are documented in the errata sheet. Once you are purchasing a chip you get access to the errata sheet for it. (Some companies share this with everyone, most only do it under NDA.) Most errata sheets have tens of pages. I've used chips that had hundreds of bugs listed in the errata sheet. Most of the errata will have a fix listed.

The fix could be as simple as changing one bit in a register. Or as complicated as monitoring the a state machine and writing a register whenever it stays in state X for Y microseconds. Sometimes you end have to monitor multiple state machines and watch for a combination of states that shouldn't occur and then take action to force operation to continue. It all depends on the ASIC and the exact bugs involved.

Complicated work arounds aren't fun to implement and are less fun to debug. But they are required to some degree or another for most chips that are sold.

Generally speaking the end user (i.e. the consumer) never knows about those errata and the fixes for them. The device containing the chip works as expected.

Occasionally things happen that cause issues. Like Comcast changing the encoding.

So yes, TiVo implemented some sort of a work around. It works for all the conditions they have been able to test. Most likely their chip supplier(s) gave them advice on the possible fix or fixes required. They could be watching a state machine in the chip or they could just be monitoring the input and rewriting the data when ever a problematic sequence occurs.

It's possible there are corner cases that haven't been fixed yet. It's hard for us to guess since we don't have the information on the bug cause, the chip datasheets and the errata lists.

TL;DR I'm not bothered at all at this being described as a work around. It is. As long as it works I'm not bothered. If it fails occasionally we need to report that so TiVo can improve the work around to cover those conditions also.

- Dan


----------



## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

morac said:


> Any posts here about missing guide data and missed recording are pure speculation at this point.


"pure speculation" ? perhaps you (and tivo) should read this post which both documents an NBC affiliate channel omission, and receives an acknowledgment and correction from Rovi:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10971758#post10971758

And did I miss the post where tivo details where we are to post our findings? on TCF? at tivo.com? or ?? the rovi guide information is widely available - see tvguide.com or WMC. It's far from speculation as to what's missing / incorrect. It's in plain sight. The better question at this point is what procedures does Tivo have in place for reporting and getting the corrections made (if any)?


----------



## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

danm628 said:


> TL;DR I'm not bothered at all at this being described as a work around. It is. As long as it works I'm not bothered. If it fails occasionally we need to report that so TiVo can improve the work around to cover those conditions also.


:up: good perspective. thanks.
but I still feel a little uneasy with "robust workaround" coming from a marketing guy when I first read that. why not just simply say "our excellent engineering team got the bug figured out and fixed in the latest update" Instead I feel like I came away with the mechanic having his fingers crossed I don't come back with the car cause the workaround patch didn't hold up but had to get the update out / roamio back on the road with some kinks still to be ironed out. but the initial reviews have been good on RC10 as far as the roamio buffer/record fix so that tempers my cynicism as more of those roll in.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

morac said:


> You are not taking that sentence in context. It goes hand in hand with the sentence that precedes it. Meaning they've done "a ton of testing" and the only issue that they've seen is some assets displaying generic poster art. Any posts here about missing guide data and missed recording are pure speculation at this point.


That's how I read it too. He was trying to compliment the community.

Let's face it. Almost every system deployed today has unexpected results. That's why they have help desks and customer service.

It would be good if TiVo developed a forum here or elsewhere to ferret out errors and bugs. The edge cutter process at dbstalk with directv was amazing.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

tivoyahoo said:


> "pure speculation" ? perhaps you (and tivo) should read this post which both documents an NBC affiliate channel omission, and receives an acknowledgment and correction from Rovi: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10971758#post10971758 And did I miss the post where tivo details where we are to post our findings? on TCF? at tivo.com? or ?? the rovi guide information is widely available - see tvguide.com or WMC. It's far from speculation as to what's missing / incorrect. It's in plain sight. The better question at this point is what procedures does Tivo have in place for reporting and getting the corrections made (if any)?


They already have a guide data and lineup reporting mechanism in their web page.


----------



## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> They already have a guide data and lineup reporting mechanism in their web page.


ok, so why not clarify that if that's the intended mechanism, instead of directing this:
"we're counting on you guys to post any anomalies you might observe."

and as far as that existing mechanism...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10970473#post10970473



Alan Gordon said:


> I contacted TiVo about the logos, and I've been waiting for MONTHS and MONTHS to get a local channel's information changed. Hopefully they'll be faster after the transition at getting things fixed...


is Tivo taking action on rovi channel and guide errors at this point? or is that left in limbo until the changeover? again, not clear. simply left as "we're counting on you guys to post any anomalies you might observe." That needs follow up from Tivo on the specifics instead of leaving us guessing amongst ourselves as to what they are or are not doing. and again, it's not speculation. the rovi guide data is out there. we can see it coming. or is Tivo's thought, let's wait til something breaks instead of nipping it in the bud ahead of time? and meanwhile paint a picture that the cover art is the major issue of the changeover?


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

tivoyahoo said:


> is Tivo taking action on rovi channel and guide errors at this point? or is that left in limbo until the changeover? again, not clear. simply left as "we're counting on you guys to post any anomalies you might observe."


I'm not sure how TiVo can take action on Rovi channel and guide errors when they haven't switched over to using it yet. That's another reason people contacting Rovi directly are mostly being blown off.

I do agree that saying to just post about problems could use some clarifications, but we know TiVo reads these boards and their own TiVo hell forums so if something pops up that gets a lot of views, I'm sure they'll notice it.


----------



## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tivoyahoo said:


> ........ But was there clarification on this: "we're counting on you guys to post any anomalies you might observe." That's spoken like we're part of some big beta test and they are counting on us / putting the onus on us. ........


That's because we the retail Guinea Pigs ARE their Beta testers!


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

tivoyahoo said:


> ok, so why not clarify that if that's the intended mechanism, instead of directing this: "we're counting on you guys to post any anomalies you might observe." and as far as that existing mechanism... http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10970473#post10970473 is Tivo taking action on rovi channel and guide errors at this point? or is that left in limbo until the changeover? again, not clear. simply left as "we're counting on you guys to post any anomalies you might observe." That needs follow up from Tivo on the specifics instead of leaving us guessing amongst ourselves as to what they are or are not doing. and again, it's not speculation. the rovi guide data is out there. we can see it coming. or is Tivo's thought, let's wait til something breaks instead of nipping it in the bud ahead of time? and meanwhile paint a picture that the cover art is the major issue of the changeover?


It's a TiVo form. Not a gracenote one.


----------



## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

morac said:


> I'm not sure how TiVo can take action on Rovi channel and guide errors when they haven't switched over to using it yet.


If the above is true then how can Tivo have managed to have done a "ton of testing"...



morac said:


> Meaning they've done "a ton of testing" and the only issue that they've seen is some assets displaying generic poster art. Any posts here about missing guide data and missed recording are pure speculation at this point.


Isn't the idea of testing to identify and report issues? And get them corrected before you dump the issue on 100% of your customer base? Of course Tivo can take action on correcting guide errors. They should have been doing so for months by now if the launch is days away.

At first glance I could identify a missing Big 4 network - NBC - in the rovi data. And it's in the 6th largest DMA in the U.S., San Francisco-Oak-San Jose, CA not rural South Dakota. That broadcast station probably reaches over 5 Million people. If the channel is missing in the channel list you can't even manually record it, nevermind trying to set a regular recording or 1P. And again, it's NBC we're talking about. And isn't that the network airing the most watched program at the moment - The Olympics? So one of the biggest networks in one of the biggest market, not a small network that reaches 6,000 people.

And if Tivo has been under contract with Rovi for guide data for some time and has been doing tons of testing, haven't they been a Rovi customer for some time? and able to report issues and get them corrected ahead of the big changeover? if not, then yes, this is a beta test at best. But yes they have been testing this. To what extent ? well, if they can miss a big 4 network in the 6th largest DMA how much else has been missed? Oh, and by the way, that NBC station's office and studios are located about 5 miles from the Tivo Headquarters in San Jose. And the tower broadcasting the signal is on a peak about 10 miles from Tivo headquarters. So a lousy antenna at Tivo HQ would still receive a booming strong signal. So how does "tons of testing" by Tivo miss a channel right in their backyard? Tivo are you reading this? if not, where do I need to post so you do? and btw, the Fox affiliate data is missing too, and that tower is 10 miles from your headquarters too. If you want us to post an anomaly, does that count for you? To me that is more than an anomaly - it tell me you aren't ready for prime time with this rollout. if you were, I wouldn't have to point out two big four networks are missing. How can Tivo miss two big 4 networks right in their backyard and claim tons of testing? and paint some rosy picture about cover art being the primary issue.

So Tivo announcing the changeover with those glaring data holes in their very own backyard isn't exactly inspiring a lot of confidence on how extensive the testing was and what to expect. Doing some follow up work detailing how tivo users can report issues would help the situation. Making such a big announcement and trying to leave it at "we're counting on you guys to post any anomalies you might observe." just doesn't cut it.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

tivoyahoo said:


> If the above is true then how can Tivo have managed to have done a "ton of testing"...


I would assume TiVo has had access to the Rovi data for a while now. They could easily compare it with Gracenote data especially when it comes to lineups.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

tivoyahoo said:


> Doing some follow up work detailing how tivo users can report issues would help the situation.


TiVo users will submit lineup issues directly to TiVo as always. TiVo will work with the guide data provider just like before. I don't understand how this is hard to understand? Why would TiVo need to clarify this? The only issue now is some users want to report lineup issues before the switchover. After next week, this will not be an issue as TiVo can handle the requests just like always.


----------



## danm628 (May 14, 2002)

tivoyahoo said:


> :up: good perspective. thanks.
> but I still feel a little uneasy with "robust workaround" coming from a marketing guy when I first read that. why not just simply say "our excellent engineering team got the bug figured out and fixed in the latest update" Instead I feel like I came away with the mechanic having his fingers crossed I don't come back with the car cause the workaround patch didn't hold up but had to get the update out / roamio back on the road with some kinks still to be ironed out. but the initial reviews have been good on RC10 as far as the roamio buffer/record fix so that tempers my cynicism as more of those roll in.


Have you met a marketing guy?

Even worse, have you seen what the marketing guy said after being run through the legal team?

I know the statements I feed our marketing team. I'm also aware of what comes out the other end. It's the ultimate example of the "pass story on game". It only takes one hop for it to be totally different. Hopefully I get a chance to edit their statement before it goes out. Doesn't always happen though.

Unfortunately I have to agree with TiVo here. (As much as I hate agreeing with the marketing guy.) Saying "TiVo fixed it and there will never be another problem" will result in a lawsuit when cable company X (i.e. any of them) does something else that TiVo hadn't anticipated. The legally safe thing to say is "we have a work around for this specific problem, no future promises".

A high level view of standards, chips and the real world. Some standards are worse than I describe. Some are better. Doesn't really matter what the standard is about, the generalities usually apply. (_The following is opinion that others may disagree with. I am DEFINITELY not stating something as an employee of a company. I don't pay much attention to video/cable standards anymore since I haven't worked in that area for at least 20 years. So your mileage may vary._)

1) Standard is created by lots of companies, universities, random interested people and occasionally governments. Details vary by standards organization (TIA, ITU, 3GPP, IEEE, etc.)
2) Standard often contains a lot of features that are "extras". Some group with sufficient votes got it into the standard even though it may not be implementable. Or implementable but no one other than the group is interested. Sometimes these are added so that they justify research into that area.
3) Many standards have associated business alliances. (e.g. WiFi Alliance) The business alliance is usually composed of companies who build and/or use the actual technology. 
4) The business alliance releases their "compliance standard". It's the set of features from the official standard that the various companies who are actually implementing it are going to build. In other words they ignore the things that no one knows how to build even though they are interesting from a research view. They also ignore the things they know how to build that will cost too much money to build at the current time. Or those where multiple IP issues exist (i.e. too many patent fights that no one will agree on licenses for). Ultimately you end up with a specification that a company can build that will work with products from other companies.
5) Products ship that are compliant with the business alliance standard. Everyone is happy. For now.
6) Time passes. Things change.​
This happens in a lot of fields. Most commonly in fields where the standards groups are open to anyone as opposed to those that are closed industry standards. The closed industry standards tend to skip step one and not include on cool things just for research.

The problems occur when someone, a single company or the whole group, decides to change the rules a few years later.

I'm sure Broadcom put the features into the chips that they thought were required for a DVR or TV to work on a HDTV cable or OTA system. Now years later Comcast is changing the rules. Maybe Broadcom missed something in the agreements. Maybe Comcast is picking a set of features that everyone else had said "let's wait on that". Maybe it's just a chipset bug and was supposed to work. (Possible since Premiers work.)

But in all of those cases the marketing guy at TiVo is going to say "work around". There is no way he is going to admit to a TiVo programming error (possible). There is no way he is going to admit to a chipset bug (TiVo would be sued by the chipset supplier for violating the NDA). There is no way he will blame Comcast for doing something that the industry (i.e. CableLabs) had agreed to do differently (another lawsuit or publicity battle that TiVo would lose). Not to mention the whole area of late to the game patent claims (i.e. people show up with patent claims who weren't involved in the standard or the business alliance) causing changes in the planned implementation (i.e do it differently to avoid the patent).

Remember the quote:
"Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made." - attributed to a bunch of people and I'm not sure who actually said it.​
Computer standards are worse. 

So "work around".

- Dan

Edit to add: I've worked on standards a few times. Dial up modems. USB. All a long time ago. I am part of the standards group at work now though I work on prototypes. I'm pretty jaded about the whole standards world at this point.


----------



## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

rainwater said:


> TiVo users will submit lineup issues directly to TiVo as always. TiVo will work with the guide data provider just like before. I don't understand how this is hard to understand? Why would TiVo need to clarify this? The only issue now is some users want to report lineup issues before the switchover. After next week, this will not be an issue as TiVo can handle the requests just like always.


True, But,
TiVo should have been proactive and leveraged the power of this community, asking us to compare their Line-ups to those posted at TVGuide.com. TiVo should have worked with Rovi to set-up a consumer webpage to report these errors directly to Rovi, freeing up the resources at TiVo, instead of being inundated with Line-up corrections after the conversion.


----------



## swyman18 (Jan 7, 2016)

Well, I guess since the workaround is making folks "uneasy", then TiVo should just pull the code and put it back to the way it was before. Then people can go back to breathing down their necks asking when there will be a fix or workaround... Oh wait. 

Can't win either way I guess.


----------



## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

danm628 said:


> Computer standards are worse.
> 
> So "work around".


Yes, I get it about having to pull back on the reins with legal involved, plus the last 4 releases have been RC12, RC14, RC7, RC10...
I'm seeing a pattern and bigger picture - it's all a release candidate "workaround" in progress...

But hey, if it's working, and I'm going to look at posts on TCF as the real indicator on the h.264 buffer / record issue, then I'm not so concerned with what they call it since the proof is in the pudding.

but on the other hand I didn't see any pulling back on the reins with the "tons of testing" comment and "Right now, we think the most obvious defect will be generic poster art on certain assets." that's setting some pretty lofty expectations and painting a rosy picture in the case of the guide data change, especially compared to the tempered "workaround" comment. And it seems to be ignoring the obvious defect / 800 pound gorilla in the room, but apparently the art on the wall is the focus.

and CoxInPHX makes a good point about how Tivo could have gone about it, especially in light of this observation in the other thread:



CoxInPHX said:


> Same here no response from TV Guide and my listings are still wrong on TVGuide.com a week after reporting.
> 
> I have 33 channels that have errors, according to TVGuide.com
> Most are the listings for the East feed, when I have the West feed.
> ...


33 channels wrong in Phoenix? Again, not a small market that gets missed / overlooked / lost in the shuffle of "tons of testing". And the east / west issue is an obvious one to look for and correct ahead of time, not wait til it breaks and then try to clean up the mess afterward.



rainwater said:


> After next week, this will not be an issue as TiVo can handle the requests just like always.


just like always? I hope not. If I go by the reports on TCF they have been slow as molasses in getting fixes done - months. And now their full customer base is getting switched all at once essentially, no staggering, and they will be inundated with issues, where before they just had a trickle by comparison. if you have channels with no or bad guide data, e.g. 33 in Phoenix, how are you supposed to record? but apparently cover art is Tivo's focus issue. Rather than hear about cover art, I'd rather hear about Tivo dedicating necessary staff and resources for the anticipated data switchover issues. And some comment about streamlining the process with Rovi for a speedy resolution. Some kind of acknowledgment and indication they have a handle on this.


----------



## danm628 (May 14, 2002)

swyman18 said:


> Well, I guess since the workaround is making folks "uneasy", then TiVo should just pull the code and put it back to the way it was before. Then people can go back to breathing down their necks asking when there will be a fix or workaround... Oh wait.
> 
> Can't win either way I guess.


I'm quite happy with the fix for Comcast.

I expect issues with the guide data switch. I will report problems. Which I've done in the past (quite a few time zone issues -- Comcast announces a switch to a Pacific coast feed and the guide changes days/weeks before the actual switch).

TiVo has never been perfect.

*It's still orders of magnitude better than watching regular TV.* I will use TiVo as long as I have OTA/cable. We'll see what I do after I finally cut the cord. I like the TiVo interface.  Hopefully they will have the correct solution for when I make that transition.

- Dan


----------



## danm628 (May 14, 2002)

tivoyahoo said:


> 33 channels wrong in Phoenix? Again, not a small market that gets missed / overlooked / lost in the shuffle of "tons of testing". And the east / west issue is an obvious one to look for and correct ahead of time, not wait til it breaks and then try to clean up the mess afterward.


About 4 years ago (give or take, I didn't keep notes or emails) I had a BUNCH of channels suddenly have a east/west coast time issue. Comcast had switched the channel names in the guide data (i.e. I got channel deleted/added messages) but Comcast actually hadn't switched the feed from the east coast to the west coast.

TiVo did what the guide data said and times were wrong for those channels. Several were ones I recorded on a regular basis.

I don't know how many channels were involved. I reported 4 or 5 that I watched. I'm sure there were others that I didn't watch.

I reported the problem one morning (about 6 am) when I got to work. Got an acknowledgement later that day. Issue was fixed when the next guide data connection was made that night.

I'm not concerned that there are 33 channels wrong in a city. Gracenote wasn't perfect either.

I am concerned about how long it takes to resolve those types of problems. If it's a day or two great. If it's weeks or months then I'm going to be upset.

- Dan


----------



## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

So I guess this means my problems with the CableCard become unpaired with FIOS will continue. Congratulations to all you Comcast subscribers.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

tivoyahoo said:


> :up: good perspective. thanks.
> but I still feel a little uneasy with "robust workaround" coming from a marketing guy when I first read that. why not just simply say "our excellent engineering team got the bug figured out and fixed in the latest update" Instead I feel like I came away with the mechanic having his fingers crossed I don't come back with the car cause the workaround patch didn't hold up but had to get the update out / roamio back on the road with some kinks still to be ironed out. but the initial reviews have been good on RC10 as far as the roamio buffer/record fix so that tempers my cynicism as more of those roll in.


The Roamio chip will not do the job because of the way Comcast is doing its xmitting, so TiVo has done a software* "robust workaround"* the chip, I would guess replacing the chip would be out of the question, so what else could TiVo do, as the problem must be fixed in software, if it to be fixed at all.
If you know of another option let us know, other that a cost free exchange of all Roamios for the equivalent Bolt (when the 6 tuner Bolt comes out).


----------



## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

lessd said:


> The Roamio chip will not do the job because of the way Comcast is doing its xmitting, so TiVo has done a software* "robust workaround"* the chip, I would guess replacing the chip would be out of the question, so what else could TiVo do, as the problem must be fixed in software, if it to be fixed at all.
> If you know of another option let us know, other that a cost free exchange of all Roamios for the equivalent Bolt (when the 6 tuner Bolt comes out).


first: http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10970902#post10970902


wish_bgr said:


> I do notice a little more of a pause when changing channels, either by direct channel keypad input, via guide or with ch up/down button on remote. I'll see if the Roamio Pro needs to index the box after the update and see if it the delay is still there.


so if that's the case as far as adding a delay due to the robust workaround, how about a more streamlined fix with more tweaking and tuning? granted, I'd rather have a less than optimal fix than nothing at this point. And it looks like this workaround is getting a passing grade as far as getting the job done. But at the same time I'd like to hope that the book isn't closed if there is indeed room for improvement on the workaround / fix.

or how about comcast puts the channels back at their native resolution? instead of transcoding and with [email protected] or at least go back to [email protected] which was working with the roamio chipset and is the standard for 720p per ATSC ANSI/SCTE:

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10964362#post10964362

So if the chip was designed to that standard, and Comcast is deviating from the standard and gets to blame the tivo software, that means they get to bully their way through this like a bull in a china shop and let tivo have to clean up the mess. And what's to keep comcast from something new in their stream yet again now that they've seemingly gotten away with it this time. what's next and how far will they go?


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

This whole thing smacks more of something like this from some PHB:

"The switch over to Rovi data _*will*_ be complete by <date>.

It takes x days to convert all of the units.

All the units must have the new s/w before the conversion can begin.

It takes m days to update the s/w on all of the units, thus the new s/w _*must*_ be rolled out starting on <date - (m+n)>.

Therefore, whatever we have will be rolled out on <date - (m+n)>, even if there are bugs."


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Of course there is gonna be something of that as they are at the end of their contract with gracenote. Would you prefer they just do nothing and guide data stops. 

Sometimes the situation isn't perfect and you do the best you can.


----------



## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

JackStraw said:


> So I guess this means my problems with the CableCard become unpaired with FIOS will continue. Congratulations to all you Comcast subscribers.


At least you still get real 1080i when it works. Can't say the same for "Xfinity.....the future of awful, it's Comcastic!" 

Your cablecard issue can at least be fixed, but you can't easily fix power hungry greed and stupidity, especially when the sheeple don't care!



lessd said:


> The Roamio chip will not do the job because of the way Comcast is doing its xmitting, so TiVo has done a software "robust workaround" the chip, I would guess replacing the chip would be out of the question, so what else could TiVo do, as the problem must be fixed in software, if it to be fixed at all.* If you know of another option let us know,* other that a cost free exchange of all Roamios for the equivalent Bolt (when the 6 tuner Bolt comes out).


It's called.....change providers and get all your native HD back and tell Comcast to eat their own garbage that they're trying to feed you!



tivoyahoo said:


> first: ........... And what's to keep comcast from something new in their stream yet again now that they've seemingly gotten away with it this time. what's next and how far will they go?




They'll offer 4K UHD and then down rez that to 1080i, so it looks slightly better than the crap 720p they're shoving down these unsuspecting and uncaring throats, then say and market........gee look at us, we're transmitting 4K.....look how "....the future of awesome" it is!


----------



## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> They'll offer 4K UHD and then down rez that to 1080i, so it looks slightly better than the crap 720p they're shoving down these unsuspecting and uncaring throats, then say and market........gee look at us, we're transmitting 4K.....look how "....the future of awesome" it is!


And the bully comcast will design their own box to report the resolution as 4K to their unknowing subscribers, and meanwhile throw some wrench in with that transcode that tivo will choke on again, and we'll be going through the waiting for the roamio fix all over again... oh, wait, legal just slapped me on the back of the head and said we don't call it that. robust workaround. an even more robustuous workaround will be necessary at that point. because when you let the bully get away with stuff and don't stand up to him, you're just inviting more of the same. I hope tivo/rovi can turn things upside down in the future with the real workaround being taking comcast and their stream out of the equation for delivering content. We're rooting for you tivo to reinvent things :up:


----------



## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

HarperVision said:


> > Originally Posted by tivoyahoo ........ But was there clarification on this: "we're counting on you guys to post any anomalies you might observe." That's spoken like we're part of some big beta test and they are counting on us / putting the onus on us. ........
> 
> 
> That's because we the retail Guinea Pigs ARE their Beta testers!


And here's the proof. The very first top red box, from here http://investor.tivo.com/mobile.vie...TQz1TRUNUSU9OX0VYSElCSVQmZXhwPSZzdWJzaWQ9NTc=



> "Consumer DVRs services as proving grounds for Next Generation MSO products"


:


----------



## sjmagy (Aug 28, 2016)

JoeKustra said:


> That dust better settle quick. One month to go until the fall season starts.


Um, yeah, about that... I have 137 OnePasses and have to recreate at least 125 of them because of the new guide data, but can't, because some of them don't show up in searches. :/


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

sjmagy said:


> Um, yeah, about that... I have 137 OnePasses and have to recreate at least 125 of them because of the new guide data, but can't, because some of them don't show up in searches. :/


Examples?

I doubt you'll have to recreate that many


----------



## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

I've had to recreate *every one* of my Sports WL's where the sport is currently airing. Other sports I will have to deal with in their season. Rovi data (metadata) is almost completely different than Gracenotes. WL's that worked for Gracenotes don't work for Rovi's. Rovi data seems very inconsistent at best.

There is no way any of this was tested by TiVo. It would have been obscenely obvious.



sjmagy said:


> Um, yeah, about that... I have 137 OnePasses and have to recreate at least 125 of them because of the new guide data, but can't, because some of them don't show up in searches. :/


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

sjmagy said:


> Um, yeah, about that... I have 137 OnePasses and have to recreate at least 125 of them because of the new guide data, but can't, because some of them don't show up in searches. :/


Everyone has their own method of using the 1P, suggestions and wish lists. It's what makes this a fun place to hang out. Everyone has their own viewing habits. Some households have one user, some have many.

I have two Roamio boxes. One has, at this time, two 1P and the other has three. This excludes late night, where I have almost all of them. But in about three weeks the list is going to get much longer. I've had TiVo for a few years, and I have my habits. When we change, I'll miss zap2it the most. It has always been super reliable. I hope tvguide.com will be the same. There will be changes in areas I can't imagine, but I doubt any will be serious. After a while I'm sure we will start having debates/threads on things that some will call features and some will call bugs. I'm not big on changes, but I'm not foolish to fight the future. Right now politics is screwing with some late night 1P, but that too will pass.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

sjmagy said:


> Um, yeah, about that... I have 137 OnePasses and have to recreate at least 125 of them because of the new guide data, but can't, because some of them don't show up in searches. :/


Sorry to hear that. I have about 110 OnePasses, and didn't have to touch a single one.



markjrenna said:


> There is no way any of this was tested by TiVo. It would have been obscenely obvious.


It's obscenely obvious to me that whatever non-testing they did worked, as I had almost no issues. Had to go back and uncheck about 50 channels that were added back. And I had one WL decide to record too many shows.

That's it. Think how much better my experience might have been had they TESTED it.


----------



## danm628 (May 14, 2002)

sjmagy said:


> Um, yeah, about that... I have 137 OnePasses and have to recreate at least 125 of them because of the new guide data, but can't, because some of them don't show up in searches. :/





astrohip said:


> Sorry to hear that. I have about 110 OnePasses, and didn't have to touch a single one.


As I said elsewhere I suspect this depends on where you live.

If you happen to live in a location where there were beta testers for the new guide data then lots of issues were fixed prior to the general release.

If you happen to live in an area with no beta testers for the new guide data then there are problems now. Until the reports about those work through the system the issues will continue.

- Dan


----------



## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

HarperVision said:


> And here's the proof. The very first top red box, from here http://investor.tivo.com/mobile.vie...TQz1TRUNUSU9OX0VYSElCSVQmZXhwPSZzdWJzaWQ9NTc=
> 
> :


Sounds like what Arris did with Moxi. They bought Moxi, killed the retail market, and absorbed everything to their MSO only market.


----------



## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

JWhites said:


> Sounds like what Arris did with Moxi. They bought Moxi, killed the retail market, and absorbed everything to their MSO only market.


But it said they're using it as "a proving ground" for their MSO business, so I'd think they'd want to keep it around so we can be their beta testers.


----------

