# TimeWarner Cable is dumping CableCard for Switched Digital Video



## chelman (Oct 27, 2004)

I received a letter communicating that TimeWarner Cable is dumping CableCard for Switched Digital Video. Will the change improve the Tivo Experience?


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Huh? Please quote the letter.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

chelman said:


> I received a letter communicating that TimeWarner Cable is dumping CableCard for Switched Digital Video. Will the change improve the Tivo Experience?


That makes no sense. If TWC were doing that, then TiVo's would cease to work. Are you sure your area isn't just adding SDV? In that case you would just need to add a SDV adapter to your current setup.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

SDV doesn't replace cablecards. It means you'll need to add what's called a tuning adapter to your Tivo setup so that it can get the SDV channels. The cablecard stays there too.

Ideally you won't notice a difference, but you can search the forum for threads on TW tuning adapters experiences.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

If you look inside the Cisco STA1520 TA you can see where there's a place for a Cablecard. I believe I've heard that initially they were supposed to have them and do all the channel mapping and decrypting in the TA. 

Maybe they're going to add this back in so they can pre-pair the Cablecard in the TA like they do with their regular boxes, thus reducing the installation headaches we all know and love. So you put the Cablecard in the TA instead of the OCUR (TiVo, HDHR, etc.) device now and just connect it up with the USB?

Idk, just a WAG.


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## rallfern (Oct 1, 2014)

I have had a tuning adapter setup for years now (California) and there have been problems with it. Many times in the mornings the Switched digital channels are not working. I have found that you need to power off the tuning adapter unplug the usb connection then power up the tuning adapter.. when the front light stops blinking the adapter has then downloaded all of your configuration information and you can plug up the usb cable. I think it happens when TW is tweaking their equipment or doing database work.. unfortunately it happens often. I have complained many times.
At first, I thought I had a Tivo problem...no it was the tuning adapter.

I have changed the tuning adapters and cable cards and I have two different Tivo dvrs...I have been very frustrated with TWC.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

chelman said:


> I received a letter communicating that TimeWarner Cable is dumping CableCard for Switched Digital Video. Will the change improve the Tivo Experience?


I love it when people write a post worthy of their avatar.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

rallfern said:


> I have had a tuning adapter setup for years now (California) and there have been problems with it. Many times in the mornings the Switched digital channels are not working. I have found that you need to power off the tuning adapter unplug the usb connection then power up the tuning adapter.. when the front light stops blinking the adapter has then downloaded all of your configuration information and you can plug up the usb cable. I think it happens when TW is tweaking their equipment or doing database work.. unfortunately it happens often. I have complained many times.
> At first, I thought I had a Tivo problem...no it was the tuning adapter.
> 
> I have changed the tuning adapters and cable cards and I have two different Tivo dvrs...I have been very frustrated with TWC.


Take a number ... I think yours is 20,149.  (If you had been following this forum you would know this is a very common TA experience with TWC.)

Well, "many times in the mornings" probably puts you in the worst-case category. More typical is having to power-cycle the TA every several weeks.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

All I know is if I had to deal with tuning adapters that locked up I would file a FCC complaint every time I had to reboot them.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

HarperVision said:


> If you look inside the Cisco STA1520 TA you can see where there's a place for a Cablecard. I believe I've heard that initially they were supposed to have them and do all the channel mapping and decrypting in the TA.
> 
> Maybe they're going to add this back in so they can pre-pair the Cablecard in the TA like they do with their regular boxes, thus reducing the installation headaches we all know and love. So you put the Cablecard in the TA instead of the OCUR (TiVo, HDHR, etc.) device now and just connect it up with the USB?
> 
> Idk, just a WAG.


That's probably not the case here, but that's an interesting issue. It sure would make things easier, well, except that TAs seem so unreliable I'm not sure putting the cable card in them wouldn't invite even more problems.


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## randywalters (Oct 21, 2003)

chelman said:


> I received a letter communicating that TimeWarner Cable is dumping CableCard for Switched Digital Video. Will the change improve the Tivo Experience?


You read the letter wrong. It's mostly announcing that TWC is moving more of their existing lesser-watched channels to their SDV list and included them in the chart.

The other stuff in that letter about SDV and CableCard and Tuning Adapter technology and how "particularly exciting" SDV technology is etc is just re-hashing old info that we already know, but nothing about this is changing. It even says that they'll supply a Tuning Adapter at no charge for each CableCard for devices such as Tivo and Moxi and Windows 7 Media Center etc, but that's been going on since the inception of SDV anyway.

There is absolutely nothing in that letter that states or indicates that they're dumping CableCards so i don't see how you came to that conclusion.


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## cannonz (Oct 23, 2011)

HarperVision said:


> If you look inside the Cisco STA1520 TA you can see where there's a place for a Cablecard. I believe I've heard that initially they were supposed to have them and do all the channel mapping and decrypting in the TA.
> 
> Maybe they're going to add this back in so they can pre-pair the Cablecard in the TA like they do with their regular boxes, thus reducing the installation headaches we all know and love. So you put the Cablecard in the TA instead of the OCUR (TiVo, HDHR, etc.) device now and just connect it up with the USB?
> 
> Idk, just a WAG.


That's because they used one of their cable boxes for it just took tuner out instead of making new box for TA.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

cannonz said:


> That's because they used one of their cable boxes for it just took tuner out instead of making new box for TA.


I've thought that could be the case, but do you have proof of this? Links?

Either way, there could be the possibility of adding the Cablecard to the TA to make it an easy install if they're preprogrammed at the head end, like their boxes are. I always wondered what would happen if i soldered in a Cablecard bracket and plugged one in.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

HarperVision said:


> I've thought that could be the case, but do you have proof of this? Links?
> 
> Either way, there could be the possibility of adding the Cablecard to the TA to make it an easy install if they're preprogrammed at the head end, like their boxes are. I always wondered what would happen if i soldered in a Cablecard bracket and plugged one in.


They couldn't do it without breaking the Cablecard spec (thus not working on any existing TiVo or any other approved Cablecard devices. And yes, they were huge because they re-used old SA cable boxes.


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## sbillard (Sep 17, 2014)

When I first got this letter I thought it might be a boon. The listed channels aren't ones I watch so maybe I would not need the TA. Of course not. The letter is probably going out nationally. Here in SoCal we have been burdened with TAs for quite some time--maybe we have more channels? Or maybe our network bandwidth is lacking.

Anyway, not new news for us.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

sbillard said:


> When I first got this letter I thought it might be a boon. The listed channels aren't ones I watch so maybe I would not need the TA. Of course not. The letter is probably going out nationally. Here in SoCal we have been burdened with TAs for quite some time--maybe we have more channels? Or maybe our network bandwidth is lacking.
> 
> Anyway, not new news for us.


In many TWC markets almost all HD channels are on SDV. They may be moving more towards this in the other markets.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

rainwater said:


> They couldn't do it without breaking the Cablecard spec (thus not working on any existing TiVo or any other approved Cablecard devices. And yes, they were huge because they re-used old SA cable boxes.


How would that be breaking the spec? There'd still be a Cablecard and it would still have to be paired and authorized.


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## HobokenSkier (Oct 14, 2015)

dlfl said:


> Take a number ... I think yours is 20,149.  (If you had been following this forum you would know this is a very common TA experience with TWC.)
> 
> Well, "many times in the mornings" probably puts you in the worst-case category. More typical is having to power-cycle the TA every several weeks.


They run hot. Too hot and they stop running. Mine has not been intentionally rebooted in 18 months since it was rack mounted with 1u above and below for cooling.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

HarperVision said:


> How would that be breaking the spec? There'd still be a Cablecard and it would still have to be paired and authorized.


Because the spec doesn't allow for cablecard authentication over USB. It must be through an approved integrated cablecard slot. TiVo codes their software to follow the spec. TWC can't just come up with a SDV box with a cablecard integrated. They would have to ratify the Cablecard spec which would break every single existing cablecard device.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

HarperVision said:


> I've thought that could be the case, but do you have proof of this? Links?


The Cisco STA1520 Tuning Adapter is a striped down, re-purposed, Cisco Explorer 1540C and 1542C

http://www.cisco.com/c/dam/en/us/products/collateral/video/video-network-adapters/7013834.pdf

http://www.cisco.com/c/dam/en/us/pr...eries-1000-digital-cable-set-tops/7012931.pdf


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

rainwater said:


> Because the spec doesn't allow for cablecard authentication over USB. It must be through an approved integrated cablecard slot. TiVo codes their software to follow the spec. TWC can't just come up with a SDV box with a cablecard integrated. They would have to ratify the Cablecard spec which would break every single existing cablecard device.





CoxInPHX said:


> The Cisco STA1520 Tuning Adapter is a striped down, re-purposed, Cisco Explorer 1540C and 1542C http://www.cisco.com/c/dam/en/us/products/collateral/video/video-network-adapters/7013834.pdf http://www.cisco.com/c/dam/en/us/products/collateral/video/series-1000-digital-cable-set-tops/7012931.pdf


Cool, thanks for the info guys. Very helpful! 

You gotta admit though, it's an interesting concept and I wonder why they didn't work this out and do it in the first place. It would make the initial setup process much easier I'd think.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

HarperVision said:


> Cool, thanks for the info guys. Very helpful!
> 
> You gotta admit though, it's an interesting concept and I wonder why they didn't work this out and do it in the first place. It would make the initial setup process much easier I'd think.


The Cablecard spec came out before SDV. Since devices already shipped with Cablecard support the only way to get SDV working was with the USB dongle idea. And those devices could be updated through a software update. Adding cablecard support to tuning adapters was never on the table as it would of broken every cablecard device that existed and I'm not sure Cablelabs would of ever supported the idea of external security anyways.


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## cannonz (Oct 23, 2011)

That PDF shows the Frankensteined on the back connections for a TA screwed on, mine is taped on.


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## paulmlemay (Sep 29, 2014)

waynomo said:


> I love it when people write a post worthy of their avatar.


Now be nice. It doesn't cost anything to be nice.

The letter was pretty darn confusing. Lots of people got them this week. Here's an example. It's great to have a forum where people can ask for help.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

paulmlemay said:


> Now be nice. It doesn't cost anything to be nice.
> 
> The letter was pretty darn confusing. Lots of people got them this week. Here's an example. It's great to have a forum where people can ask for help.


That was my nice. 

I can be really scathing when I want to be although I rarely feel the need to do that.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

paulmlemay said:


> Now be nice. It doesn't cost anything to be nice.
> 
> The letter was pretty darn confusing. Lots of people got them this week. Here's an example. It's great to have a forum where people can ask for help.


Maybe it is just me but the section on TiVos makes it clear they will give you a free tuning adapter for your cablecard TiVos. It doesn't seem that confusing.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

rainwater said:


> The Cablecard spec came out before SDV. Since devices already shipped with Cablecard support the only way to get SDV working was with the USB dongle idea. And those devices could be updated through a software update. Adding cablecard support to tuning adapters was never on the table as it would of broken every cablecard device that existed and I'm not sure Cablelabs would of ever supported the idea of external security anyways.


 Yes I know that. I was just hypothesizing that since Cablecard was a spec when they came up with TAs, that if they could have incorporated the Cablecard into the TA then it would have made for a much better experience at install time.

I don't believe it would have "broken every Cablecard device that existed" because you'd just be moving the card from the OCUR device to the TA, making the mapping, security and authentication all in the TA instead of shared between them. TiVo I am sure would've welcomed something like this to take that headache and burden away from their otherwise stellar device and put install headaches squarely on the MSO's shoulders. They would probably have happily developed a FW for their TiVos to work in tandem with the Cablecard TAs, if that had ever been broached as a possibility.

It would almost be like Dan203's Gateway idea which is being proposed now as a replacement for the cc. I would think it an amazing product if something like an SD HDHR Prime came out that had all the tuners, SDV, HDD and Cablecard ability built in, connected to your network and then you'd just connect your tunerless TiVo or other DVR/Streamer to the network at each location you wanted or needed access.

Cable Labs approved the HDHR Prime to send IP video over your LAN to devices that had the proper security, like a PC with WMC, so why not a TA to send secured video over USB to your TiVo (with the proper security downloaded via FW)?


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## chelman (Oct 27, 2004)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> SDV doesn't replace cablecards. It means you'll need to add what's called a tuning adapter to your Tivo setup so that it can get the SDV channels. The cablecard stays there too.
> 
> Ideally you won't notice a difference, but you can search the forum for threads on TW tuning adapters experiences.


The letter says that the cable cards and tuner adapters have to be returned for exchange with the Basic HD converter (see the letter)


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## chelman (Oct 27, 2004)

randywalters said:


> You read the letter wrong. It's mostly announcing that TWC is moving more of their existing lesser-watched channels to their SDV list and included them in the chart.
> 
> The other stuff in that letter about SDV and CableCard and Tuning Adapter technology and how "particularly exciting" SDV technology is etc is just re-hashing old info that we already know, but nothing about this is changing. It even says that they'll supply a Tuning Adapter at no charge for each CableCard for devices such as Tivo and Moxi and Windows 7 Media Center etc, but that's been going on since the inception of SDV anyway.
> 
> There is absolutely nothing in that letter that states or indicates that they're dumping CableCards so i don't see how you came to that conclusion.


The second bullet ask to return cable cards and tuner adapters in exchange for basic HD converters...


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

chelman said:


> The letter says that the cable cards and tuner adapters have be returned for exchange with the Basic HD converter (see the letter)





chelman said:


> The second bullet ask to return cable cards and tuner adapters in exchange for basic HD converters...


Page 3 and the parts you are referring to, specifically say.

"If you currently lease a CableCARD for use in a UDCP that is NOT compatible with the Tuning Adapter..."

All TiVos that use a CableCARD ARE compatible with a Tuning Adapter, so that section is not applicable to a TiVo S3 and above.


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## randywalters (Oct 21, 2003)

chelman said:


> The letter says that the cable cards and tuner adapters have to be returned for exchange with the Basic HD converter (see the letter)





chelman said:


> The second bullet ask to return cable cards and tuner adapters in exchange for basic HD converters...


But the line "If you currently lease a CableCARD for use in a UDCP that is NOT compatible with the Tuning Adapter..." does not apply to Tivos that have a CableCard slot, since these Tivos ARE compatible with the Tuning Adapter.

I have two older flat panel TVs with CableCard slots (Panasonic TH-42PX50U and HP LC2600N) but they are NOT compatible with the Tuning Adapter because they don't have a USB port thus they cannot communicate with the TA. These two TVs are prime examples of a UDCP device that is NOT compatible with a Tuning Adapter. The letter is basically saying if you want tune all your channels on these Devices/TVs, they'll allow you to return the CableCard and exchange it for a Basic HD Converter (the little DTA box) and they'll charge you the same fee that you were paying with the CableCard for the next year.

What's really stupid about that is i'm already paying only $1.50 per mo for my existing Basic HD Converter DTA box in a bedroom, while my CableCard is $2.50 per month - so this new "offer" actually costs a buck more per month.

I don't get why they're sending this letter out now, as if this something new. They switched to SDV and deployed Tuning Adapters to us back in 2011, and shut off their analog signal and deployed the little DTA Box back in 2014.

When Time Warner activated SDV a few years ago, these TVs stopped tuning the affected channels so i ended up having to return the CableCards from those TVs and connected them to my roof antenna instead. I've had their Basic HD Convter/DTA Box on one of these TVs for two years to watch my cable channels in there, but it doesn't tune ALL of my channels like my CableCard did.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

You read the letter wrong.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

randywalters said:


> I don't get why they're sending this letter out now, as if this something new.


Most of the letter is boilerplate. It's the same letter they send out every time they make a bulk transition of channels over to SDV. They just replace the list of channels that are moving, and update the date.


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