# Copy Protection Flag with TWC



## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

I just got cable cards installed in my TivoHD and it seems that all shows recorded from digital cable are marked with the copy protection flag. I have tried searching for stories of what people might have been able to get TWC to do, but wasn't able to find anything. Has anyone successfully gotten them to not put flags on all the channels? Otherwise, anyone have any ideas of who to call (support didn't have a clue what i was talking about of course). I am currently in Ithaca, NY.
Thanks,
Josh


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## DaveDFW (Jan 25, 2005)

I'm with Time-Warner in Dallas, and in the same situation. Nearly all the digital and HD channels are marked 0x02, which severely limits MRV'ing.

I thought this copy-protect flag was only supposed to be applied to the premiums--HBO, Showtime, etc.

Thanks,
David


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

I am going to reply based upon what I know from for reading this site.

The only rule is that the copy protection flag can only NOT be set on retransmissions of OTA broadcasts (i.e. your local channels.) These must be sent as copy freely.

However, all other channels can be copy protected up to 0x02 (Copy Once). This can be set by either the network (ESPN, AE, etc.) or by the local cable company. Only PPV or VOD can be set at copy never.

Now from reading here, almost all non-premium networks are currently transmitting their feeds without the CCI bit turned on, so you "should" be able to MRV without hassle. The only networks that are using the CCI bit are the premiums (HBO, Sho, etc.) 

It sounds like your local cable is adding the CCI bit to the channels. You should call them and inquiry why they are adding it to channels that are broadcast without it. Some on this board have got their local cable company to remove the copy protection from channels that are not supposed to have it, others have been basically told to "pound sand" and refuse to remove the protection.

Good luck.


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## dcollens (Mar 13, 2002)

I have recently been copying programs from my TIVO to my PC for viewing while travelling. I have had no problem copying episodes of The Bionic Woman, Journeyman and a few others.

Just this weekend I wanted to bring episodes of Medium over to my PC for the same reason, but it is showing up in TTG as copy protected.

I sent a message to COX explaining my problem and they indicated that this was being done by TIVO not them.

I have sent them another e-mail explaining to them that TIVO does not initiate this type of coding and asked them to do some further research to correct the problem on their side. 

I'll wait to see their response, but have a feeling that it will be the same as they have already sent out.


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## h0mi (Dec 29, 2007)

I'm encountering the same situation with Cox San Diego. I sent an email to Cox and also contacted some entity in the city of san diego. The truth is, this makes me want to cancel my cable service and makes me reluctant to buy the Tivo desktop software... I record some content from OTA and more from cable, but almost all of it is protected.


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## kitk (Apr 3, 2007)

h0mi said:


> I'm encountering the same situation with Cox San Diego. I sent an email to Cox and also contacted some entity in the city of san diego. The truth is, this makes me want to cancel my cable service and makes me reluctant to buy the Tivo desktop software... I record some content from OTA and more from cable, but almost all of it is protected.


I had luck in getting a very small change from Cox San Diego after a lot of effort. I got them to remove the copy protection on the SD version of KPBS (channel 11). Otherwise they were unable to make any changes. Good luck.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

I just noticed the same thing for many digital channels (Cartoon Network, National Geographic) with Brighthouse Networks. I haven't followed through on it (as it's going to be a nightmare) but just adding another data point out there....


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

I haven't been able to make any headway with Brighthouse in the Tampa Bay area either. All the digital channels (except for the locals) are 0x02. _Occasionally_ there'll be a single show like on HDNet that is MRV'able, but it's very infrequent (and I can't explain why just a single show would have it turned off like that).


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## flynndt (Jan 17, 2008)

I just upgraded to a Series 3 this week and TWC in Newburgh NY installed two M cards. A couple days later I went to transfer to my PC and everything was flagged. I checked the CCI Byte and most channels are 0x02. These are the same shows that my Series 2 transferred with no problem using a cable box. Strangely enough, I experimented a little and a clip of Lost on ABC was flagged but a clip of the same episode on ABC HD wasn't. I called Tivo and was told it was a cable company problem of overflagging. I talked to TWC up to the level of supervisor and had no luck. They said they don't "flag" and they've never heard of this issue before. A case number was established and they were supposed to call me back, but it's been a couple days. If this is really the case, why isn't this better known? Am I one of the few Tivo users who actually want to transfer recordings? Very unhappy about this!


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## DaveDFW (Jan 25, 2005)

TWC was clueless when I contacted them also--they gave me a different 800 number to call, which was for roadrunner support. Obviously they just wanted me to go away.

How do you actually get to talk to someone that knows how their own system works?

TTYL
David


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## saramj (Feb 3, 2005)

RBlount said:


> I am going to reply based upon what I know from for reading this site.
> 
> The only rule is that the copy protection flag can only NOT be set on retransmissions of OTA broadcasts (i.e. your local channels.) These must be sent as copy freely.
> 
> ...


How can I tell if a channel is copy protected and find out if the 0x02 or copy never is turned on. I am using Cablevision in NJ and have no problems with copying to DVD with the exception of the Treasure HD Network (aka VROOM). The show doesnot show it is copy protected when I open TTG but when I attempt to downlaod it to my PC it runs for about a minute then stops downloading and TTG states it is done copying.


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## zingboy (Jul 22, 2002)

flynndt said:


> I just upgraded to a Series 3 this week and TWC in Newburgh NY installed two M cards. A couple days later I went to transfer to my PC and everything was flagged. I checked the CCI Byte and most channels are 0x02. These are the same shows that my Series 2 transferred with no problem using a cable box. Strangely enough, I experimented a little and a clip of Lost on ABC was flagged but a clip of the same episode on ABC HD wasn't. I called Tivo and was told it was a cable company problem of overflagging. I talked to TWC up to the level of supervisor and had no luck. They said they don't "flag" and they've never heard of this issue before. A case number was established and they were supposed to call me back, but it's been a couple days. If this is really the case, why isn't this better known? Am I one of the few Tivo users who actually want to transfer recordings? Very unhappy about this!


So is there anything we can tell TWC to get the question across better? I want my multi-room viewing back.

I had the same experience as flynndt. They had never heard of flagging. Said they'd call back and never did.

What information is going to help them understand?


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## masterwick (Feb 10, 2006)

I too am in Dallas using TWC and noticed just recently that the digital channels have the Copy never flag set. Has anyone had any luck with TWC customer service? I tried calling them and they are clueless with no desire to help.

Maybe another route would be to lean on TiVo to lean on TWC to help resolve this issue, since this is in Tivo's best interests to not having their DVR crippled by cable companies.


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## masterwick (Feb 10, 2006)

After a 30min hold and conversation with a TWC CSR rep who had zero interest in helping me, I spoke to a supervisor (Sandra Lidia ext 7687) who was nice enough to discuss this issue. She said the source, i.e. TNT, determines the Copy protection flag and they rebroadcast it as directed. Even though I did mention I just had FIOS and never saw TNT set a copy protection flag. She mentioned I should contact TNT and ask them what the copy protection flag should be set to. She too would contact TNT and within TWC to determine how the CP flag should be set.

I suggest others (Dallas number 972-742-5892 (972-PICK-TWC)) call and hopefully we can get enough people complaining to get them to listen. Be sure to ask for Sandra Lidia (ext 7687).


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

ah my old thread resurrected from the dead. I tried for a while working with TWC in central NY, but I didn't get anywhere. I canceled my cable due to moving and I haven't restarted it yet. I was thinking about adding it to watch some of the Olympics, but we'll see.
Josh


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## masterwick (Feb 10, 2006)

I figured this is still an issue and no reason to start a new/separate thread.

Just called TNT404-827-2458 (channel I know I have specific issues). They do NOT set any copy protection flags. She said they receive calls like this and its generally the cable company not knowing the answer and getting rid of the customer.

Time to call back TWC and inform Sandra Lidia ext. 7687 of my findings.


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## masterwick (Feb 10, 2006)

It might be easier to wait to post once I am done with all this, but I am forgetful and thought I would post as news arrives.

Just spoke to Sandra Lidia at TWC. She was taken aback that TNT does not set a copy protection flag. I gave her the tech support phone number and she said they would escalate to their technical support team to release the flag. She said it must be TWC setting the flag (finally an admission of guilt). Hopefully this will set something in motion to fix this issue (being very optimistic).


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## bananaman (Jul 18, 2005)

I'm with TWC in NYC. I've asked my rep several times about the copy flag and he has been unable to get a coherent answer.

The paradox is that while all the highest rated shows do NOT have the copy flag set, some of my favorite lesser-known shows are copy-protected. 

In other words I can watch CSI, American Idol etc. wherever and I want (another TiVo, a PC, a mobile device), but I can't watch Design Star, Wall Street Warriors etc.

Erm... don't the smaller shows want to be watched more? Do the advertisers who pay for ads during these shows know that TWC arbitrarily reducing the impression count they are paying for?

RCN is a better choice in NYC than TWC because they do not use the copy flag.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

the best bit of information that I can give you is try to get into contact with a support supervisor. For my local one I got the contact by asking the TWC installers/repair crew. Then I called the local office and asked for that person. These people are not the customer service you get when you call the line. The one I had spoken to was very nice and understood what I was talking about, but said he didn't know anything about why they were set that way and he couldn't change them. He supposedly emailed his supervisor (at a regional office) and later when I spoke to him he said that never got a response. At the time I was more interested in fixing some of the other problems I was having so I just let it go.
Josh


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

If you find something out please let us know. No one has been able to confirm that this is TWC policy (that I know of) or if they just suck at running a cable system and thought it would be easier to set it and forget it.
Josh


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## [NG]Owner (Dec 19, 2006)

I just called that number, and was given a different story. I was told that TNTHD is purposely set to 0x02, copy once. It is a restriction that Turner has for TNTHD and HBO.

The lady with whom I spoke didn't know the answer herself initially, but placed me on hold, and returned with this information.

The plot thickens ....

[NG]Owner


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## masterwick (Feb 10, 2006)

mmmm...interesting tid bit. The TNT rep I called did not mention TNTHD or anything, just we don't enable the copy protection flag. 

I wondering if TWC is flagging the digital and not the analog channel (<100 channel number). Guess I will check that at home tonight.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

They cannot flag analog, so you don't even have to check. Here they have all digital channels flagged, except the locals. It would be against FCC regs to flag the locals...
Josh


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## Combat Medic (Sep 6, 2001)

I've danced this dance with TWC in San Antonio about HDNET which here is marked as 0x02. I eMailed HDNET and I got a response that they do not do CCI and they do not like copy protection. TWC doesn't care.


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## masterwick (Feb 10, 2006)

Combat Medic said:


> I've danced this dance with TWC in San Antonio about HDNET which here is marked as 0x02. I eMailed HDNET and I got a response that they do not do CCI and they do not like copy protection. TWC doesn't care.


Did you send an email to Mark Cuban with details of the issue? He is generally pretty good about reading/answering emails directly.


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## masterwick (Feb 10, 2006)

socrplyr said:


> They cannot flag analog, so you don't even have to check. Here they have all digital channels flagged, except the locals. It would be against FCC regs to flag the locals...
> Josh


Not sure if this is accurate but below is what I tested, contrary to what I thought it would be:
Recorded Law and Order on TNT since it was one
Channel 45 Analog Copy Protected
Channel 241 Digital Copy Protected
Channel 770 HD Not Copy Protected

Other Channels
Channel 204 History Not CP
Channel 262 Comedy Channel Copy Protected (started between 6/12 and 6/19
Channel 240 USA Copy Protected
Channel 208 Military Copy Protected
Channel 202 Discovery Not CP
Channel 795 HDNet Copy Protected
Channel 796 HDNetMovies Copy Protected
Channel 805 UniversalHD Copy Protected
Almost no consistency in the CP flag.....


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## Combat Medic (Sep 6, 2001)

masterwick said:


> Did you send an email to Mark Cuban with details of the issue? He is generally pretty good about reading/answering emails directly.


I had eMailed their general address and Time Warners legal people without result. I've also mentioned it a number of times to everyone at TWC I talk with. No results.

I just eMailed Mark. We'll see what happens.


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## masterwick (Feb 10, 2006)

I sent an email to Mark Cuban and Glenn Valenta at HDNet.



> Glenn and/or Mark,
> I am not sure if you are aware of this issue, but in the DFW metroplex and other reported locations, Time Warner Cable is implementing a Copy Protection Flag to the HDNet and HDNet Movies broadcasts. As a consumer, this is very frustrating because it cripples my DVR (TivoHD) functionality and prevents me from performing a multi-room-viewing transfer. I am not sure if this is the intent of HDNet to have cable companies implement any unwanted copy protection on it's broadcasts. On the TivoCommunity, this issue is being discussed here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=382958.
> 
> I have been in contact with a TWC supervisor (Sandra Lidia 972-742-5892 ext 7687) in trying to resolve this issue. However, I believe my efforts will be in vain since there are very few of us complaining about this issue. As a consumer and HDNet fan, I would be very interested to see this issue resolved.
> ...


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## Combat Medic (Sep 6, 2001)

I wrote the following to Mark:


> Mr. Cuban,
> I have been working for the past couple of months on an issue that I have with Time Warner in San Antonio and your channels. I truly enjoy watching your channels, but I have cut back because Time Warner applies the CCI setting of 0x02 or copy once. This setting prevents me from taking a copy of the shows on my laptop when I travel. I would like to spend more time watching your shows, but when Time Warner makes it less then convenient I look at other options.
> 
> I have been told that you are not a fan of copy protection so I am hoping that you can help.
> ...


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## TroyB (Oct 20, 2006)

I had WOW cable and very little was flagged as not copy, I could even transfer recorded programs from HBO and other premiums. I asked them one day why everything was copy so freely and they said they only flag what they are specifically instructed to from stations. I now move and have TWC and there is a lot of things flagged, I read here that TWC says they are only doing it to channels they are instructed to.
How can two different cable companies get 2 different stories from the same channel broadcaster. One of them is definately lying.


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## masterwick (Feb 10, 2006)

TroyB said:


> How can two different cable companies get 2 different stories from the same channel broadcaster. One of them is definately lying.


I am pretty sure TWC is over flagging. Verizon FIOS, which I had previous to TWC, probable under flags.

I am still waiting on any reply from TWC or HDNet.


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## [NG]Owner (Dec 19, 2006)

See, here's what I don't understand.

You would think that Tivo would have a vested interest in ensuring that cable companies set their CCI flags appropriately and consistently across the US. One would think that Tivo knows (or should know) what is appropriate. Yet they apparently make no effort to assist us in our battle with TWC. There ought to be a tiger team/task force/help desk specifically geared towards guiding cable companies to correctly CCI flag their plant.

I've contacted two different Tivo employees on two occassions (not front line personnel, but those that post here), once via IM, once via direct email, and I get no response.

If I can just get some ammo (in the form of an email from Cuban for example), I have a direct line to a VP at TWC who is willing to run it up the flagpole at least here in Kansas City. We need a ***** in the armor, sadly we don't have anything to make one yet.

C'mon Tivo, get on the ball. One of the primary competitive advantages your product offers is being rendered impotent by cable companies. Let's go do something about it.

[NG]Owner


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## rkrenicki (Oct 27, 2005)

[NG]Owner;6481129 said:


> C'mon Tivo, get on the ball. One of the primary competitive advantages your product offers is being rendered impotent by cable companies. Let's go do something about it.
> 
> [NG]Owner


This is not TiVo's fault, this is the MSO's fault. TiVo is sticking within the Cablelabs mandated observance of CCI.

The local MSO determined what CCI level it should be, if they are being stupid about it, neither TiVo or CableLabs has any say about it.


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## Joe Siegler (May 10, 2000)

RBlount said:


> It sounds like your local cable is adding the CCI bit to the channels. You should call them and inquiry why they are adding it to channels that are broadcast without it. Some on this board have got their local cable company to remove the copy protection from channels that are not supposed to have it, others have been basically told to "pound sand" and refuse to remove the protection.


That's a nightmare. Getting someone who would understand what the problem is, much less how to fix/change is a hassle I'd rather not get involved in. So much so I'll leave it alone. Ugh.


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## Glich (Feb 19, 2002)

TWC is very odd. When i got my tivo HD i discovered that all non-basic channels (ones that are in my free tier) were no copy but everything else was ok. I moved litterly 5 miles down road and crossed a city border now everything is free and clear (still TWC) but different cable cards (old place was sa and new is Motorola. I asked a cable guy once and he said my old address was EX comcast area and the whole system was not linked to his group (different trucks hardware depot ext.)


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## masterwick (Feb 10, 2006)

I never recieved a response via email from Mark Cuban or Glenn Valenta, however, I did speak to Glenn (303-618-6684 - Glenn Valenta direct line) on the phone regarding Copy Protection from HDNet and HDNet Movies. He said they (HDNet) do not send the CP flag to the cable providers. Appearantly, Motorola (cable cards???) defaults the CP flag on. There is nothing they can do on thier end since it is the cable company inserting the CP flag on the channels. Due to a poor phone reception, we were not able to speak at length, but he was very nice and responsive to my questions.

I found out Sandra Lidia at TWC works in the executive escalation dept (direct line 469-665-7687...7/25 - found out to be wrong number, correct number 972-409-2000 ext 7687). I called to get an update to the situtation, however, she is out of office until Thursday. Guess I will call her back then.


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## DaveDFW (Jan 25, 2005)

If you've noticed, TWC in North Texas recently moved most of the SD channels to digital. Previously, many of the "digital" channels above 100 were really remapped analog channels.

So now we have improved picture quality, but we endure the blanket 0x02 flag on all SD channels. I don't think the people at TWC understand the difference between encrypting a channel and setting the copy flags, so they just do both.

I gave up a long time ago trying to get any action. The great wall of incompetence at TWC has beaten me.

But I'm glad to see that someone is making progress!

TTYL
David


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

I thought this thread was about The Weather Channel, and I was wondering why anybody would even notice whether or not it had copy protection.


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## masterwick (Feb 10, 2006)

TerpBE said:


> I thought this thread was about The Weather Channel, and I was wondering why anybody would even notice whether or not it had copy protection.


I like to archive the weather


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## masterwick (Feb 10, 2006)

After speaking to Sandra Lidia, which I found out the number they originally gave me was incorrect, they tested the issue on their converter box and don't have an issue (big surprise!!!). So I discussed with her in greater detail about the 0x02 Copy Protection Flag and its meaning. She asked is this is possibly a Tivo issue, of which I informed her the Tivo is required by Cablelabs to perform the CP functions as TWC sends out. Also, she seemed to understand this occurs on some channels and not others so it shouldn't be a Tivo issue. She said she will discuss with a technician to duplicate the issue on a cable card. Hopefully they will get back to me in a timely manner. Otherwise I can bug them/her about the issue.

Frustrating, but at least someone is pretending to listen.....


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## DaveDFW (Jan 25, 2005)

Masterwick, the next time you talk with your contact, maybe you can mention HDnet and HDnet movies--these two channels also should be 0x00 but TWC flags as 0x02.

The last email I received from HDnet said that they were aware of the 0x02 issue and were working with TWC on correcting...but that was months ago. I don't understand why TWC is so recalcitrant about fixing these things.

TTYL
David


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## masterwick (Feb 10, 2006)

DaveDFW said:


> Masterwick, the next time you talk with your contact, maybe you can mention HDnet and HDnet movies--these two channels also should be 0x00 but TWC flags as 0x02.
> 
> The last email I received from HDnet said that they were aware of the 0x02 issue and were working with TWC on correcting...but that was months ago. I don't understand why TWC is so recalcitrant about fixing these things.
> 
> ...


I specifically mentioned these channels as I have spoken to Glenn Valenta at HDNet regarding the CP issue. Have you tried to follow-up with HDNet regarding the work with TWC? My impression from Glenn at HDNet is it appears to be out of their hands and is up to TWC to fix the issue.

PS - Thanks for adding a new word to my repertoire - recalcitrant : obstinately defiant....good one.


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

Are their converter boxes cable card boxes?


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## m_jonis (Jan 3, 2002)

Not to mention, their converter boxes aren't DVR's. And for their converter boxes that do have DVR capability, they don't do MRV or "transfereing" anyway, so for TW it's a moot point and therefore a "Tivo" issue. (Basically if Tivo lacked the same MRV and TTG abilities as the TW DVR does it would be a moot point as well).

Essentially TW has rendered two Tivo features pretty much utterly useless. Except for local HD channels.

Our TW even switched the analogs to digital simulcast, so we can't TTG or MRV "analog" stations either.


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## bhoch99 (Jan 21, 2003)

I am intrigued by the progress being made with Sandra Lidia. Is she responsible for all of TWC or just the Texas area. I live in NH with TWC and I am having the same problems with CableCards preventing programs from being transferrable...

BH


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## masterwick (Feb 10, 2006)

bhoch99 said:


> I am intrigued by the progress being made with Sandra Lidia. Is she responsible for all of TWC or just the Texas area. I live in NH with TWC and I am having the same problems with CableCards preventing programs from being transferrable...
> 
> BH


I only know she is 'An Excecutive Escalation Supervisor', whatever that really means. I will update this thread when I contact her.

I would suggest trying your local TWC office and asking for an executive escalation. Explain the issue regarding the Copy Protection so they can open a ticket as reference. Provides details to some specific channels you have issues with but mention its not limited to only those channels. You also might pre-emptively call those stations technical departments and inquiry about copy protection flag being sent to cable providers. Sadly, but you have to present a very good case for them to begin to think something is wrong on their end.


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## berkshires (Feb 22, 2007)

Has anyone tried registering complaints with the FCC? From the consumer perspective TWC is abusing their power to set the flag. From the perspective of many content providers, that is the case too. Explaining that to the FCC in complaints might get them to referee the thing in lieu of perhaps making new rules/regulations.


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## ncbagwell (Feb 15, 2005)

Has anyone had any luck playing the "Cable in the Classroom" card? I was watching an episode of The Twilight Zone last night recorded off of the Sci-Fi channel and it had a graphic at the beginning of the show that it was part of Cable in the Classroom and could be taped by educators. I looked and, sure enough, it was copy protected and couldn't be moved off my Series 3.


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## DaveDFW (Jan 25, 2005)

berkshires said:


> Has anyone tried registering complaints with the FCC?


Yes, I've tried the FCC and promptly received an irrelevant form letter in response.

I think this is something that might benefit from the Tivo company itself getting involved--just like they assist in getting cablecards set up.

TTYL
David


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

I finally heard back from my local contact at TWC. He read an email from someone else that clearly stated that the CCI settings are "corporate" policy, not local. This is bad as it is hard to get a hold of someone at the corporate level. It might be good as if it gets fixed for one it might get fixed for all at the same time.
Anyone else get anywhere?
Josh


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

socrplyr said:


> I finally heard back from my local contact at TWC. He read an email from someone else that clearly stated that the CCI settings are "corporate" policy, not local. This is bad as it is hard to get a hold of someone at the corporate level. It might be good as if it gets fixed for one it might get fixed for all at the same time.
> Anyone else get anywhere?
> Josh


That means that Time Warner is taking it solely upon themselves to deny their customers fair use even when it is contrary to the desires of the cable in the classroom initiative and the is contrary to requirements of the owners of the program material. This means that they will legally be solely liable should anyone sue them.

That makes no sense, they are opening themselves up to liability needlessly. Their lawyers should know better than that.


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## masterwick (Feb 10, 2006)

socrplyr said:


> I finally heard back from my local contact at TWC. He read an email from someone else that clearly stated that the CCI settings are "corporate" policy, not local. This is bad as it is hard to get a hold of someone at the corporate level. It might be good as if it gets fixed for one it might get fixed for all at the same time.
> Anyone else get anywhere?
> Josh


Very interesting indeed.

I've been too busy the past couple of weeks to spend 1 hour on hold/phone with Sandra @TWC. Hopefully this week I can touch base with her again and find out what the heck is going on.......hopefully.


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

By way of a small support for the idea that TWC is implementing the copy protection flag system wide;
I've got major copy protection on all channels except the major networks (abc, nbc, cbs, fox). I am located in New Hampshire & expect the entire cable area is effected, ie southern Maine also.
If any emailing, phone bothering etc is required, I'd be happy to help.


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## Sanman87 (Aug 17, 2008)

I was dealing with the highest level of my local support from TWC for the SA cable card/lost channel issues, (which turned out to be incompatible with 9.4, Motorola CC's worked fine)
I asked them about the copyrighted material that isn't required to be from the source TNT, etc...
the answer is that's what they use to block subs from recieving channels not in their package. 
So they encrypt to decrypt, 
I think that's a low level blanket effect, and there's other ways to accomplish it, 
I don't know what's envolved in changing the code to allow the record/playback, and still block for the correct package.
Does anyone with more knowledge on the 0x1 0x2 codes know of a better way? While I have the contacts for my current issue, I would love to push this on them,


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

masterwick said:


> Maybe another route would be to lean on TiVo to lean on TWC to help resolve this issue, since this is in Tivo's best interests to not having their DVR crippled by cable companies.


This is good advice and I think TiVo, in general, will try to help resolve these kind of issues. TiVo can get make things happen because they can get past the frontline support and start talking engineer to engineer instead of talking to a person who says "I have no idea what a TiVo is or copy protection"


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## m_jonis (Jan 3, 2002)

Sanman87 said:


> I was dealing with the highest level of my local support from TWC for the SA cable card/lost channel issues, (which turned out to be incompatible with 9.4, Motorola CC's worked fine)
> I asked them about the copyrighted material that isn't required to be from the source TNT, etc...
> the answer is that's what they use to block subs from recieving channels not in their package.
> So they encrypt to decrypt,
> ...


The 0x00 CCI bytes are for copying, not viewing protection. So it doesn't have any affect on blocking subs.

Even the most restrictive CCI byte still allows you to VIEW the program, just can't store it.


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## Sanman87 (Aug 17, 2008)

m_jonis said:


> The 0x00 CCI bytes are for copying, not viewing protection. So it doesn't have any affect on blocking subs.
> 
> Even the most restrictive CCI byte still allows you to VIEW the program, just can't store it.


So the answer I got has nothing to do with why we can't transfer between Tivo's?
If that's the case, I don't see why they wouldn't just change the code, 
and allow the transfer to view.
Does anyone have any valid reason, or thought why not to?
The Cable Co's say there aren't many Tivo's out there, so what are they afraid of?
I know Tivo reads these posts, I wonder if any Cable Co's do,
I agree that they both should look at their service from an "end users" point of view, and stop pointing fingers, and work together, maybe Beta test these software updates together so what's happening with 9.4 doesn't happen again...
Seems simple to me....


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## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

Sanman87 said:


> So the answer I got has nothing to do with why we can't transfer between Tivo's?
> If that's the case, I don't see why they wouldn't just change the code,
> and allow the transfer to view.
> Does anyone have any valid reason, or thought why not to?
> ...


The "no copy" setting on the program tells the Tivo not to allow copying of any sort, for any reason. Tivo has to play by the rules set by the providers or they wouldn't get approval from Cable Labs. One way around it might be to stream the program from Tivo to Tivo, but the performance of that depends on how good the home network is, and might cause more customer service problems than it's worth.

There are lots of 9.4 systems out there running very happily with Cable Cards, and it might be something other than 9.4 that is causing the problem.


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## Sanman87 (Aug 17, 2008)

Gregor said:


> The "no copy" setting on the program tells the Tivo not to allow copying of any sort, for any reason. Tivo has to play by the rules set by the providers or they wouldn't get approval from Cable Labs.


I understand that it's not Tivo's fault, the problem I see is if I record an HD Season Pass, I am limited to that room to watch it. I like the flexibility the transfer gives me to watch any season pass in either room. Is it possible for TWC to allow the code for me to transfer and they can still block from free access to subs not subscribing to it? It sounded like it might be seperate flags/codes.... in which case it would be possible.


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## ncbagwell (Feb 15, 2005)

Is it the Cable Card that actually applies the CCI setting to the recording? In other words, if I have a Series 3 or TivoHD with no cable cards (just getting the lower cable channels), will those shows be unprotected?


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## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

Sanman87 said:


> I understand that it's not Tivo's fault, the problem I see is if I record an HD Season Pass, I am limited to that room to watch it. I like the flexibility the transfer gives me to watch any season pass in either room. Is it possible for TWC to allow the code for me to transfer and they can still block from free access to subs not subscribing to it? It sounded like it might be seperate flags/codes.... in which case it would be possible.


Can they do that? Certainly. On the Comcast system I am on, I need a cable card to get Discovery HD Theater, and the shows of Discovery HD Theater I can MRV if I want to.

Will TW let you? That's another question entirely and it seems TW has the most restrictive policies in the industry.


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## m_jonis (Jan 3, 2002)

ncbagwell said:


> Is it the Cable Card that actually applies the CCI setting to the recording? In other words, if I have a Series 3 or TivoHD with no cable cards (just getting the lower cable channels), will those shows be unprotected?


I believe, in theory, that you would be able to do "whatever" with those shows.

The cable card acts as an enforcement for any CCI-byte that gets sent.

Supposedly a Tivo could be modified to ignore such things, but that's a diff. story

By law, the only things the cable company cannot set is local broadcast signals.

Unfortunately, our local TW Albany office has chosen for "force" cable card users to get "all digital" so they CAN and DO block digital simulcast channels that are local broadcast (because the local broadcast is in analog). They do not, however, block broadcast local HD channels. Well, they don't NOW, after I complained to them (they did have EVERY single channel set to copy once, and that one copy lives on your Tivo).


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## [NG]Owner (Dec 19, 2006)

nrnoble said:


> This is good advice and I think TiVo, in general, will try to help resolve these kind of issues. TiVo can get make things happen because they can get past the frontline support and start talking engineer to engineer instead of talking to a person who says "I have no idea what a TiVo is or copy protection"


Isn't that what I said here:



[NG]Owner;6481129 said:


> See, here's what I don't understand.
> 
> You would think that Tivo would have a vested interest in ensuring that cable companies set their CCI flags appropriately and consistently across the US. One would think that Tivo knows (or should know) what is appropriate. Yet they apparently make no effort to assist us in our battle with TWC. There ought to be a tiger team/task force/help desk specifically geared towards guiding cable companies to correctly CCI flag their plant.
> 
> ...


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

How about Cable in the Classroom. If a teacher cannot Transfer a show to her computer and burn a DVD because of TWC, that would be in conflict with the goals of cable in the classroom.


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## m_jonis (Jan 3, 2002)

CuriousMark said:


> How about Cable in the Classroom. If a teacher cannot Transfer a show to her computer and burn a DVD because of TWC, that would be in conflict with the goals of cable in the classroom.


That's a possibility. Not sure if anyone's actually used that argument successfully against TWC


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## ncbagwell (Feb 15, 2005)

CuriousMark said:


> How about Cable in the Classroom. If a teacher cannot Transfer a show to her computer and burn a DVD because of TWC, that would be in conflict with the goals of cable in the classroom.


I can't find the thread but I seem to remember someone trying that route. The answer was that the teacher could just take their Tivo into the classroom with them and hook it up to a TV. Pretty lame, but I guess that falls in line with their "you can copy it once and that copy lives on your Tivo" argument.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

That's lame but believable. 

Isn't TWC accepting all legal liability for restraint of fair use when they do this without direction from the owner of the content? Why would they want to take on risk unnecessarily?

I am in a TWC area and was planning to switch from DTV to cable when I go HiDef in about a year. Hopefully this will all be worked out by then.


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## berkshires (Feb 22, 2007)

CuriousMark said:


> That's lame but believable.
> 
> Isn't TWC accepting all legal liability for restraint of fair use when they do this without direction from the owner of the content? Why would they want to take on risk unnecessarily?
> 
> I am in a TWC area and was planning to switch from DTV to cable when I go HiDef in about a year. Hopefully this will all be worked out by then.


No, TWC is doing what they are allowed to do under the system that was created. The system needs to be changed or the cable cos. need to be pressured into changing their use of the existing system.

I wish TiVo would make some comments, and I wish people would start complaining heavily to the FCC and asking the content providers like HDNET to support them.

The same sort of process that led to getting a Tunning Adapter to solve the SDV problem (which TiVo had a major hand in) should be used to resolve the heavy handed (and uneven-handed) use of Copy Flag.


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## masterwick (Feb 10, 2006)

Well, after a few weeks of calls not returned by TWC (i.e. Sandra Lidia), I have decided they/she firmly believe 
1) Nothing is wrong with their system and it my end, i.e. Tivo OR
2) They/she knows now they are intentional sending ths signal and nothing they can do to change OR
3) They could care less about my problems

Since I am out of town, my wife called Tivo concerning this issue. They mentioned something about 9.4.0 software update reset the CCI byte flags on the CC. They put a note in our file on how instructions to fix this issue. When I (or my wife) gets time, we will conference in Tivo with TWC to see if they can resolve this issue. 

With TWC persistence of a non-issue, I firmly believe Tivo needs to step-in somehow to help resolve this issue. It is very detrimintal to Tivo if all cable companies follow TWC leads in the CCI scheme.


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## bhoch99 (Jan 21, 2003)

I recently called my TWC provider in NH. They didn't seem to want to help, saying that it was the decision of the networks and not TWC to set the CCI byte. Not sure if they fully understood the problem.

I also called the Tivo Cablecard hotline, but the person at the other end was not able to do much other than give me the number for TWC corporate headquarters.

Tivo really needs to do something about this. I could see if it was just a small cable provider somewhere in rural america, but TWC has over 7 million digital cable subscribers nationwide. Tivo needs to talk to TWC and tell them to set the CCI byte properly. Individual subscribers simply don't have the power to make this change in TWC policy happen on their own.

Either that, or Tivo needs to add another disclaimer to their packaging.

Anybody know a good lawyer?

BH


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## [NG]Owner (Dec 19, 2006)

masterwick said:


> Maybe another route would be to lean on TiVo to lean on TWC to help resolve this issue, since this is in Tivo's best interests to not having their DVR crippled by cable companies.


and later,



masterwick said:


> With TWC persistence of a non-issue, I firmly believe Tivo needs to step-in somehow to help resolve this issue. It is very detrimintal to Tivo if all cable companies follow TWC leads in the CCI scheme.


followed by, in order,



[NG]Owner;6481129 said:


> You would think that Tivo would have a vested interest in ensuring that cable companies set their CCI flags appropriately and consistently across the US. One would think that Tivo knows (or should know) what is appropriate. Yet they apparently make no effort to assist us in our battle with TWC. There ought to be a tiger team/task force/help desk specifically geared towards guiding cable companies to correctly CCI flag their plant.





DaveDFW said:


> I think this is something that might benefit from the Tivo company itself getting involved--just like they assist in getting cablecards set up.





nrnoble said:


> This is good advice and I think TiVo, in general, will try to help resolve these kind of issues. TiVo can get make things happen because they can get past the frontline support and start talking engineer to engineer instead of talking to a person who says "I have no idea what a TiVo is or copy protection"





berkshires said:


> I wish TiVo would make some comments, and I wish people would start complaining heavily to the FCC and asking the content providers like HDNET to support them.
> 
> The same sort of process that led to getting a Tunning Adapter to solve the SDV problem (which TiVo had a major hand in) should be used to resolve the heavy handed (and uneven-handed) use of Copy Flag.





bhoch99 said:


> Tivo really needs to do something about this. I could see if it was just a small cable provider somewhere in rural america, but TWC has over 7 million digital cable subscribers nationwide. Tivo needs to talk to TWC and tell them to set the CCI byte properly. Individual subscribers simply don't have the power to make this change in TWC policy happen on their own.


All of us have asked Tivo for assistance in getting TWC straightened out. Can't the powers that be here at Tivo Community, or others here that have the ear of Tivo muckety-mucks, guide those Tivo execs over here to lay some wisdom upon us? Help us prepare a battle plan? Help us to help ourselves? Certainly this is a looming issue as people like us replace our Series 2 units with Series 3/HD units. Can't Tivo see that?

[NG]Owner


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## Rez (Dec 23, 2001)

Let me add another "me too" to this issue. TWC Austin seems to have recently started flagging a lot of channels to prevent copying.

Reading through this thread it appears calling front line tech support is fairly worthless, does anyone here have a better contact at TWC Austin? Or should I try going straight to TiVo and see if they will attempt contact?


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

bhoch99 said:


> I recently called my TWC provider in NH. They didn't seem to want to help, saying that it was the decision of the networks and not TWC to set the CCI byte. Not sure if they fully understood the problem.


It's simply false. By statute it is entirely the CATV provider's prerogative. The network can set the byte if they choose, but it is entirely up to the CATV provider whether they pass on the byte or change it themselves, except in certain specific circumstances.



bhoch99 said:


> I also called the Tivo Cablecard hotline, but the person at the other end was not able to do much other than give me the number for TWC corporate headquarters.


Why don't you post that number here? Significant numbers of people calling in could have an affect.



bhoch99 said:


> Tivo really needs to do something about this.


There's not much they can do authoritatively. Highly placed TiVo officials can make contact either on or off the record with their counterparts at TWC, but that's about it. The TWC officials are under no compulsion to respond at all, let alone positively.



bhoch99 said:


> I could see if it was just a small cable provider somewhere in rural america, but TWC has over 7 million digital cable subscribers nationwide. Tivo needs to talk to TWC and tell them to set the CCI byte properly. Individual subscribers simply don't have the power to make this change in TWC policy happen on their own.


Legally and officially, neither does TiVo. Of those 7 million subscribers, at most not much more than 100,000 are Series III Tivo owners. Neither those 100,000 subs nor TiVo has as much clout with TWC as Time Warner Entertainment, whose movies get the byte set (which in their minds means more rental and purchase royalties) or any of the other movie studios.



bhoch99 said:


> Anybody know a good lawyer?BH


Yeah, but I certainly can't afford to pay him to take on an issue like this. Can you?


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## m_jonis (Jan 3, 2002)

Well I finally got an answer from my electronic complaint to the FCC that TWC had set the CCI byte on ALL channels (including our local broadcast channels) to "copy once" (which means you cannot transfer them off the Tivo).

You know what their response was?

A 2-page PDF that described compatibility between cable TV and digital receivers.

That's it. A stupid PDF that doesn't even address the complaint!

What a bunch of morons.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

I always thought "morons" was spelled "FCC".


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## Austin_Martin (Sep 13, 2006)

Anyone have any update on this issue?

I'm using Time Warner Austin, and most of my recordings are unable to copy to the other machine.


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## nedlog89 (May 25, 2003)

what can I do to stop tivo central and PAUSE from timing out and going to live tv on my series 3 ?


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## masterwick (Feb 10, 2006)

Austin_Martin said:


> Anyone have any update on this issue?
> 
> I'm using Time Warner Austin, and most of my recordings are unable to copy to the other machine.


No update from TWC in Dallas (McKinney) area. I have practically given up working with TWC (actually they have given up on me). Like we all said before all of us calling the C.C hotline might cause a stir and/or do the same with TiVo and complain you just may go back to the TWC pos cable box because Tivo's are castrated on TWC.

This is a very infortunate situation that Tivo seems to be ignoring the largest cable company in the country actions with over copy protection.


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## Austin_Martin (Sep 13, 2006)

In the other thread, I posted the email response from the HDNet senior engineer. He says that he will have someone contact Time Warner to find out about the situation. Hopefully they will be more responsive to them.

I'm wondering if this is part of Time Warners plan. Don't let any functionality that is better than the one that they are using get a foothold.

One way to get back might be to get a dvr from TW. Then every time a program is not recorded, phone them for a replacement dvr. Since when I used that crap box I had programs every week not get recorded, it might get them to notice.


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## ejunkie (Sep 29, 2008)

After paying big bucks from my S3 Tivo I am very frustrated that I paid more money to get less features.

First I spoke to Tivo who pointed me to the CCI byte issue and TWC. Sort of wish I knew that BEFORE I spent ~$1K on a locked down box.

Then I called TWC (also in Albany,NY) the CSR rep kept trying to send someone to my house, no idea about the issue. After repeatedly telling me it was not their problem and me politely asking to speak to a supervisor I got thru to someone else. The supervisor took the information and told me she would check on it in the back office and post the information to me account.

I also logged onto the FCC website and filed a compliant there.

Based on the various postings it appears that none of these actions is likely to have an impact.

I hate the cable company and sympathize with Tivo who invented this whole business. I am giving it a week or so and then TiVo is going to get their system back. Maybe then they will realize it is time to go toe to toe with TWC or throw in the towel.

Tivo without transfer, is just not worth the money.


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## RonZimmerman (Nov 15, 2008)

I have a SA8300HD from Brighthouse in Central Florida. I am considering buyiny a TIVO HD with the purpose of transfering and watching shows on my laptop while on the road. Is there a way to see which channels Brighthouse has set copy protect to "on" while using my SA8300? If I can't copy the programs I want, TIVO isn't worth it.


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## skaggs (Feb 13, 2003)

ejunkie said:


> Then I called TWC (also in Albany,NY) the CSR rep kept trying to send someone to my house, no idea about the issue. After repeatedly telling me it was not their problem and me politely asking to speak to a supervisor I got thru to someone else. The supervisor took the information and told me she would check on it in the back office and post the information to me account.


What kind of information did the supervisor tell you?

Did you get anywhere with this?


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## JayJayTen (Feb 11, 2008)

RonZimmerman said:


> I have a SA8300HD from Brighthouse in Central Florida. I am considering buyiny a TIVO HD with the purpose of transfering and watching shows on my laptop while on the road. Is there a way to see which channels Brighthouse has set copy protect to "on" while using my SA8300? If I can't copy the programs I want, TIVO isn't worth it.


I agree with you, TiVo desktop is certainly useless and I am going to call them to get my money back. It is useless now that almost everything is copy protected. There has to be a hack or way around this. Is anyone aware of a work-around?

Jay


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## m_jonis (Jan 3, 2002)

JayJayTen said:


> I agree with you, TiVo desktop is certainly useless and I am going to call them to get my money back. It is useless now that almost everything is copy protected. There has to be a hack or way around this. Is anyone aware of a work-around?
> 
> Jay


In theory there is, if one is inclined to hack their S3 Tivo. But you'll have to google for that.


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## RonZimmerman (Nov 15, 2008)

I have Navigator on Brighthouse. I have gotten into the diagnostic menu, all 28 pages. Where does it tell me if a channel is copy protected?


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## f1.fan.newyork (Nov 30, 2008)

Just bought two Tivo HD's for a new apartment I'm moving in to [upgrading from series 2]. Have a choice of either RCN or TWC [no Verizon FIOS yet] for the South Manhattan,NY area. I went with TWC, but am having a few second thoughts based on the posts here. My install date is in a couple of weeks.

***Am not too familiar with the CCI copy protection issue. So basically does anyone know whether I should go with RCN rather than TWC***. Looks like a lot of people are pretty hacked off about not being able to MRV [which I use a lot] on TWC. I would go as far at to say if this is really the case I will probably be sending back my new Tivo's if MRV isn't possible with either RCN or TWC.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

I cannot make any statements about RCN, but generally with TWC the only things that you will be able to MRV or TTG are the locals and the analogs. Now to be honest I am not sure how the analogs are going to be as there have been reports that with the tuning adapter if there are digital simulcasts available those are tuned. Now as to whether or not you should return them, that is your call. Remember however, that if the majority of programs your MRV are local channels you shouldn't have a problem with any service. Not that I want you to keep something you do not want, but remember this is not Tivo's fault. It is TWC. They seem to be one of the few with a corporate policy of to mark everything copy once. Good luck with your decision.
Josh


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## f1.fan.newyork (Nov 30, 2008)

I'm sending back both my new Tivo HD's because of this - TIVO NEEDS TO STEP UP.

I ordered two Tivo HD's a week ago, with a TWC cable install date next week. [I currently have two Series 2's]. I have no choice other than to use TWC in my apartment building, and multi-room viewing is important to me. So I can't go the HD route until either this problem is fixed and TWC stop adding the copy bits, or my building allow Verizon or RCN in.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

f1.fan.newyork said:


> I'm sending back both my new Tivo HD's because of this - TIVO NEEDS TO STEP UP.
> 
> I ordered two Tivo HD's a week ago, with a TWC cable install date next week. [I currently have two Series 2's]. I have no choice other than to use TWC in my apartment building, and multi-room viewing is important to me. So I can't go the HD route until either this problem is fixed and TWC stop adding the copy bits, or my building allow Verizon or RCN in.


This isn't Tivo's fault it is TWC's policy. I suggest you complain about it. The FCC has given the cable companies the ability to do this (I don't know why because all it does is stifle competition). The hard part is finding a way to complain, as most reps have no clue what the CCI bit is. Like I said good luck. It seems like MRV is the only thing you like about Tivo, since the TWC boxes don't offer that either. Good luck getting a solution that works for you.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

As of December 11th, 2008.

TWC in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex is *STILL* Copy protecting *EVERY* channel now *EXCEPT*... Local broadcast (SD/HD) and analog cable.

Well at least in my area of Dallas... Frisco/The Colony area.

TGC


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

TexasGrillChef said:


> As of December 11th, 2008.
> 
> TWC in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex is *STILL* Copy protecting *EVERY* channel now *EXCEPT*... Local broadcast (SD/HD) and analog cable.
> 
> ...


The same should be for all TWC markets. I was read an email on the phone that effectively stated it was a corporate policy, not a regional one. They wouldn't forward it to me for "confidentiality" reasons.


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## lafos (Nov 8, 2004)

I got a similar reply to an e-mail I sent to TWC. I didn't keep it, but it did state that the flag was company policy. Too bad there aren't choices in cable providers.


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## hangtime79 (May 23, 2005)

Had TWC in Manhattan and they do the same thing with the CCI bit. It really bites.


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## myron4 (May 9, 2008)

TWC Dallas began copy protecting 2 local broadcast HD channels yesterday 4/21/09, KDFW (FOX) HD & KTXA HD. So far the 0x02 copy once CCI flag has not been enabled for other local networks such as NBC HD, MyNetwork HD, ABC HD, CW HD, CBS HD.

Does anyone have a list of channels for FIOS (Dallas) that are set to 0x00 copy freely? I could share a complete list for TWC (almost every cable network changed to 0x02 12 months ago, now this).


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

myron4 said:


> TWC Dallas began copy protecting 2 local broadcast HD channels yesterday 4/21/09, KDFW (FOX) HD & KTXA HD. So far the 0x02 copy once CCI flag has not been enabled for other local networks such as NBC HD, MyNetwork HD, ABC HD, CW HD, CBS HD.
> 
> Does anyone have a list of channels for FIOS (Dallas) that are set to 0x00 copy freely? I could share a complete list for TWC (almost every cable network changed to 0x02 12 months ago, now this).


Since you didn't directly mention it, they are not allowed to set the flag on retransmissions of OTA broadcasts. I would restart the Tivo and record something new (just to be sure it isn't a weird issue with the Tivo). Then if they are still protected call them up and complain. If they fail to respond contact the people listed on your bill, as the FCC is very slow to respond to such a minor infringement (may not seem to be, but is in the scheme of things).


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Actually, they are pretty fast in enforcing this one. The national networks weild a huge amount of power, and anything which impacts the distribution of their commericals is attacked like a duck on a june bug. TWC is big and powerful, but ABC, CBS, NBC, and FOX haul in more revenue in one day than TWC does in a year. You better believe anyone copy protecting their commercials is going to get whacked hard and fast.


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

RCN in NYC has set HBO and a couple of other premiums to 0x03. So we can't even record, let alone use MRV. (Well, we can record but it'll be deleted 90 minutes later so what's the point?) According to this thread they can only go up to 0x02. Dunno if this is a glitch or they crossed the line. Has anyone had any luck dealing with the cable companies or is it pretty much hitting one's head against the wall?


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## StanSimmons (Jun 10, 2000)

The cable companies are the bad guys here. They are ALLOWED, not required, to set the bits, but they do it anyway... even if the source doesn't have the bits set. TWC Dallas refused to change the CCI Byte settings on anything except for local OTA channels that they rebroadcast (as required by law). Even in a few cases where the originator told TWC they didn't want the CCI Byte set, TWC refused to change it. TWC was technically within the law/rules, but not within the spirit of them.

The laws regarding this subject are poorly written, probably by a cable company lobbyist. The consumer has absolutely no recourse... other than breaking the law or losing functionality.

Complaining to the cable company won't do any good... they want you to use their box, not TiVo. I fought with TWC Dallas for a year. I finally gave up and just hacked my TiVoHD's. None of my shows have the CCI byte set any more. I can watch TV my way once again. I consider it a little bit of civil disobedience.

TiVo has interpreted the cablecard rules very restrictively, and I don't blame them for it. If TiVo is strict, they don't get sued. The cable companies are the ones who set the CCI Byte before sending it to your house.

The first step is to break the "chain of trust" by changing the boot prom on the mainboard. If you aren't REALLY good at soldering, then getting someone to do it for you will cost upwards of $100. Once that is done, it is fairly simple to replace the linux kernel to allow custom software to run on the TiVoHD/S3. Then the tivoapp program must be modified to always store the CCI Byte as 0x00. Any future recordings can then be transferred normally by MRV. This does NOT modify any encryption that TiVo does when storing or moving shows.

The details on how to do this are not open for discussion on this board. You must google search for "deals freebies tivo" and do a little research on the board you find with that search.


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## Merejane (Feb 28, 2004)

mlsnyc, I'm having the same problem with RCN in NYC; I just noticed it today. Just got off the phone with them. The rep I spoke with had no clue what I was talking about, but I had him check three different times with . . . well, with whomever he checks with when he puts me on hold. He kept saying it was a TiVo issue, and I said no, that I can see that the CCI on my cards is NOW set to 0x03, and that that is something that RCN would do, not TiVo. (Right?) The last time the rep put me on hold, he came back and said he checked with the "line engineers" and that they also said it was a TiVo issue. He suggested I call TiVo, which I guess I will do, but my head already hurts.

I am far from an expert in all of this, and have not read this whole thread (just found it today when I realized I was having this problem). So -- am I right in thinking this is not a TiVo issue? Is there any hope?

I also wonder if this has anything to do with the TiVo RCN boxes, which I also just learned about today.

Sigh.


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## cjv2 (Dec 16, 2009)

Merejane said:


> The last time the rep put me on hold, he came back and said he checked with the "line engineers" and that they also said it was a TiVo issue. He suggested I call TiVo, which I guess I will do, but my head already hurts.
> 
> I am far from an expert in all of this, and have not read this whole thread (just found it today when I realized I was having this problem). So -- am I right in thinking this is not a TiVo issue? Is there any hope?
> 
> ...


Not a TiVo issue. A call to TiVo might get you some helpful convo as to understanding it better, but the CCI flag is a characteristic of the transmission (from the cable company, that is), not the device receiving the transmission.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Merejane said:


> I'm having the same problem with RCN in NYC; I just noticed it today. Just got off the phone with them. The rep I spoke with had no clue what I was talking about, but I had him check three different times with . . . well, with whomever he checks with when he puts me on hold. He kept saying it was a TiVo issue, and I said no, that I can see that the CCI on my cards is NOW set to 0x03, and that that is something that RCN would do, not TiVo. (Right?) The last time the rep put me on hold, he came back and said he checked with the "line engineers" and that they also said it was a TiVo issue. He suggested I call TiVo, which I guess I will do, but my head already hurts.
> 
> I am far from an expert in all of this, and have not read this whole thread (just found it today when I realized I was having this problem). So -- am I right in thinking this is not a TiVo issue? Is there any hope?
> 
> ...


The best you can hope for when you call Tivo, is that they might do a 3-way call to the cable company so that you and Tivo can explain their mis-diagnosis to them.


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

Merejane said:


> mlsnyc, I'm having the same problem with RCN in NYC; I just noticed it today. Just got off the phone with them. The rep I spoke with had no clue what I was talking about, but I had him check three different times with . . . well, with whomever he checks with when he puts me on hold. He kept saying it was a TiVo issue, and I said no, that I can see that the CCI on my cards is NOW set to 0x03, and that that is something that RCN would do, not TiVo. (Right?) The last time the rep put me on hold, he came back and said he checked with the "line engineers" and that they also said it was a TiVo issue. He suggested I call TiVo, which I guess I will do, but my head already hurts.
> 
> I am far from an expert in all of this, and have not read this whole thread (just found it today when I realized I was having this problem). So -- am I right in thinking this is not a TiVo issue? Is there any hope?
> 
> ...


As people have already mentioned it's not a Tivo issue. RCN has done this, probably as recently as yesterday because I was able to record movies on HBO as late as last weekend. I figured it was a long shot but I was hoping there could be someone who would know some way to get cable companies to budge. A new wrinkle to this problem however is that RCN went beyond 0x02 protection, which from early in this thread sounded like the highest they were allowed to go. They've gone to 0x03 which means we practically can't record because it will be wiped out 90 minutes after the program's conclusion. Regardless of whatever rule is out there, I figure as long as we're not capable of distributing the movie I can't see how they'd be permitted to prevent us from recording a movie for the sole purpose of us watching it sometime later. But I'm afraid it will also be very difficult and time-consuming to get them to adjust if it's a new policy and not a glitch in their system.


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## Merejane (Feb 28, 2004)

Thanks, cjv2 and steve614, I will try calling TiVo (probably tomorrow; I am too aggravated at the moment!). Even if all TiVo can do is to get RCN to admit that this is their doing -- well, that would be some progress. 

I could switch to FIOS, but have resisted doing that because I am not a Verizon fan. For the most part, I have been okay with RCN's service. But this could be a deal breaker.

mlsnyc, my husband thinks that contacting the FCC might be worthwhile, with the (not-so-)new administration. I might work up to that, too, but not with much optimism.


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

Merejane said:


> ... my husband thinks that contacting the FCC might be worthwhile, with the (not-so-)new administration. I might work up to that, too, but not with much optimism.


It may have to come to that. Though from other posts on this thread that's also pretty much hitting your head against a wall. This whole thing is aggravating but for now I'm still hoping it's a glitch and not some new, unreasonable policy.


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## NowPlaying (Mar 7, 2002)

The whole CCI byte issue is crap that only affects honest users. As StanSimmons pointed out Tivos can be hacked to ignore the CCI byte copy blocking. Anyone into illegal copying/distribution will just do this hack. The rest of us who just want to move recordings around our home networks are screwed. 

As has been pointed out it is not Tivo's fault. The cable companies must get some perverse pleasure out of pissing off their subscriber base.

I must say that I've considered hacking my Tivo because of this but it is just more trouble than it is worth.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

StanSimmons said:


> The cable companies are the bad guys here. They are ALLOWED, not required, to set the bits, but they do it anyway... even if the source doesn't have the bits set.


Actually, for the particular case you replied to (setting CCI to 0x03) they are not even allowed to set those bits for HBO. 0x03 is reserved for VOD and pay-per-view. This particular case is a blunder by RCN that they will correct, as soon as somebody can find the right RCN person high enough who understands the problem. The FCC rules are clear on this.

Setting the bits to 0x02 (forbidding copying) is unfortunately allowed.


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## Joe Siegler (May 10, 2000)

NowPlaying said:


> The whole CCI byte issue is crap that only affects honest users. As StanSimmons pointed out Tivos can be hacked to ignore the CCI byte copy blocking. Anyone into illegal copying/distribution will just do this hack. The rest of us who just want to move recordings around our home networks are screwed.
> 
> As has been pointed out it is not Tivo's fault. The cable companies must get some perverse pleasure out of pissing off their subscriber base.
> 
> I must say that I've considered hacking my Tivo because of this but it is just more trouble than it is worth.


This is pretty much my feelings on the matter perfectly.


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## fergie8 (Oct 26, 2006)

mlsnyc said:


> RCN in NYC has set HBO and a couple of other premiums to 0x03. So we can't even record, let alone use MRV. (Well, we can record but it'll be deleted 90 minutes later so what's the point?) According to this thread they can only go up to 0x02. Dunno if this is a glitch or they crossed the line. Has anyone had any luck dealing with the cable companies or is it pretty much hitting one's head against the wall?


It's happening on RCN in Chicago as well. I don't have HBO/Cinemax, but i noticed that all the Showtime/TMC/Flix channels (SD and HD) are affected by this. Curiously, it seems like this is not an issue with the Starz channels.

Did this problem just start today (1/24)?


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

fergie8 said:


> It's happening on RCN in Chicago as well. I don't have HBO/Cinemax, but i noticed that all the Showtime/TMC/Flix channels (SD and HD) are affected by this. Curiously, it seems like this is not an issue with the Starz channels.
> 
> Did this problem just start today (1/24)?


I believe it started sometime on Saturday (Jan 23).


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

RCN fixed the problem last night by setting the premiums to 0x02, which they are permitted to do. But people who value MRV or like to transfer recordings to their PC/Mac have been screwed.


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## Merejane (Feb 28, 2004)

mlsnyc, before this current problem with the 0x03 setting, was it set to 0x02? Or is this a new copy-once restriction that wasn't there before? (I don't use MRV or transfer to my computer, but I would like the option. So, I am curious if this is a new -- although apparently legal -- restriction.)

Edit: Never mind; I see that you answered my question in this thread. Sorry to hear about this new restriction!


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