# Different type of "reboot" problem!



## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

I have upgraded my 3 THD's to 1TB drives and they have been fine for 3+ years now. The one in the bedroom had a noisy fan so I replaced it. Other than that it has 1 issue that bugs me. 

I leave the tuners on different HD stations. Every few days they are both on the same station...like when you have a reboot. Sometimes I can hear the fan go into high speed, which I assume is a reboot.

However, here is the strange part, this NEVER happens when it is doing a scheduled record and never happens during playback. I get NO FREEZES! I record the news at night at 11PM, and tell it to save 1 show. That way we can watch whenever we get in the Bedroom, and it only has 1 nights worth of news that gets overwritten the next night. From the deleted list I guess it does delete and records new. RARELY, when I just go to live TV on that station it will reboot, but that has only happened a few times EVER during these 3+ years. I would suspect PS and/or HDD but this seems like it would effect shows I record, etc. This seems like it must be something else. I suppose I "could" pull the HDD and run diags, but wonder if anyone knows what else to look for. Is it possible that the >250 deleted shows could be causing it? It sure would be a pain to delete them 1 at a time!


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

I am surprised that there have been no suggestions yet. 

I do have a question relating to this, however. Is there a way to see when the TIVO HD thinks it did a reboot? I can see where it has connected for guide updates, but can we tell when it did the last reboot?


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> I do have a question relating to this, however. Is there a way to see when the TIVO HD thinks it did a reboot? I can see where it has connected for guide updates, but can we tell when it did the last reboot?


Yes. Go to the DVR Diagnostics screen, page down a few times and look for the line "Time Since OOB Tune Start". Display is given in seconds, so you'll have to do the math to get to minutes/hours/days.

As for your rebooting problem, does it only happen when you tune that one channel? If so, it might be "toxic".

Do a forum search for toxic channels.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> I have upgraded my 3 THD's to 1TB drives and they have been fine for 3+ years now. The one in the bedroom had a noisy fan so I replaced it. Other than that it has 1 issue that bugs me.
> 
> I leave the tuners on different HD stations. Every few days they are both on the same station...like when you have a reboot. Sometimes I can hear the fan go into high speed, which I assume is a reboot.
> 
> However, here is the strange part, this NEVER happens when it is doing a scheduled record and never happens during playback. I get NO FREEZES! I record the news at night at 11PM, and tell it to save 1 show. That way we can watch whenever we get in the Bedroom, and it only has 1 nights worth of news that gets overwritten the next night. From the deleted list I guess it does delete and records new. RARELY, when I just go to live TV on that station it will reboot, but that has only happened a few times EVER during these 3+ years. I would suspect PS and/or HDD but this seems like it would effect shows I record, etc. This seems like it must be something else. I suppose I "could" pull the HDD and run diags, but wonder if anyone knows what else to look for. Is it possible that the >250 deleted shows could be causing it? It sure would be a pain to delete them 1 at a time!


That sounds kinda like a scheduled reboot, like after a software patch download so it can switch to the alternate OS partitions.

It tries it's best to do it when nobody's using the TiVo.

Of course they haven't updated the software in who knows how long.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

I know that there has been no update in a very long time.

Anyway, I tried the dvr diagnostics screen and it says Please Wait. I could not page down or do anything to get to an OOB Tune Start screen. I thought it was in system info, but it was not.

I had to pull the power to get out of the Diagnostics screen. Is there a Number code to get me out of it? Just what was it waiting for?


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> Anyway, I tried the dvr diagnostics screen and it says Please Wait. I could not page down or do anything to get to an OOB Tune Start screen. I thought it was in system info, but it was not.
> 
> I had to pull the power to get out of the Diagnostics screen. Is there a Number code to get me out of it? Just what was it waiting for?


No, no number code. It's a bug. Sometimes you get stuck on the please wait screen.
Of course as you found out, you have to pull the plug and reboot.
After the reboot, you should be able to get to the DVR diagnostics screen.
Of course, there's no point now - you know when your Tivo last rebooted.


Odd thing, this only afflicts one of my TivoHDs, the one that I upgraded to 2 TB.
The other one which still has the original hard drive has never gotten stuck accessing DVR diagnostics. Hrm.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

steve614 said:


> No, no number code. It's a bug. Sometimes you get stuck on the please wait screen.
> Of course as you found out, you have to pull the plug and reboot.
> After the reboot, you should be able to get to the DVR diagnostics screen.
> Of course, there's no point now - you know when your Tivo last rebooted.
> ...


Did you increase the size of the swap partition when you embiggened the drive size?


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Well, you are correct. After a reboot I sure do not need to check. I also did not remember changing the swap size.


One thing I did see somewhere, and I am going to try it now, is that OOB can be viewed from the CableCard menu...I think CC diags. I will look now and see what happens. The one I tried that I needed to pull the plug on is a THD that I upgraded to 1TB (like the other 2) and has been running for 4 years without ANYTHING going wrong! So, I can still try this on the THD that I am having the strange reboot issue on.

OK, UPDATE. I guess the CableCard comes up with the Diagnostics screen.

My last boot was about 14 hours ago so that makes it about 1:30 AM. I showed about 50,594 seconds. Anyway, that THD had no issue with going into Diagnostics. I show a sig level of 100 and both tuners were on CH 508, which is the NBC HD station. Signal is 100 and S/N is 37db. I see about 500 uncorrectable errors and from the past I do not think that is a lot for 14+ hours. Is this all OK? I will see what I see tomorrow and see if I can determine a pattern.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

unitron said:


> Did you increase the size of the swap partition when you embiggened the drive size?


Nope. Copied and expanded with JMFS and supersized with WinMFS shortly after JMFS was introduced. I don't remember the swap partition being discussed all that much back then.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Well, it has been a while and here is what I found....

I created an Excel sheet that will take the seconds from the boot (OOB) and subtract it from the time I took the OOB reading. I seem to have the THD reboot every 2 or 3 days.

However the thing that does not make sense is that it is the only "issue" I have. Both tuners are then set to the same station...that is it. All shows record OK, play OK, and I can watch live OK. No freezes or anything, etc So, does this mean that there may be a reason for this...like a high number of uncorrected errors on the stream from a station? So far, it almost looks like if it were on a different system it would be OK. If I sold it, I don't know what to say. It seems Perfect in every way!


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

If it's not plugged into a UPS, you've got an uncontrollable variable, so to speak.

If you get a little voltage sag in the middle of the night and your power supply is just beginning to get marginal, it could drop just enough to reset the TiVo's CPU.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

unitron said:


> If it's not plugged into a UPS, you've got an uncontrollable variable, so to speak.
> 
> If you get a little voltage sag in the middle of the night and your power supply is just beginning to get marginal, it could drop just enough to reset the TiVo's CPU.


Well, I do have a UPS that is only powering a switch and Phone. I can move the cord to another UPS and try this on this THD. It is only 500VA, but that should be more than enough for a THD. I am not sure it will matter, but it is worth a try. A few reboots are mid day. Strange that this NEVER happens when we record or watch anything, however.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Just an update...

I seem to have these reboots every 2 days or so. I even made a spreadsheet to take the time I look at the OOB and subtract the seconds. That is how I know how often and when it reboots. It is NOT at the same time every 2 or 3 days. I wonder if it is the AC power? I will try a UPS as I do have one I do not need. I also was thinking of putting the original HDD back in. I know I can go to tivo.com and put the season pass back on to the original drive, but won't it get removed when I put the original drive back in and ir reconnects to update the guide and software?


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I'd say at this point, you might as well open it up to check things out.

Rule out the power supply being a problem before you start messing with swapping the hard drive.

Do you have access to a digital multi-meter?


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

steve614 said:


> I'd say at this point, you might as well open it up to check things out.
> 
> Rule out the power supply being a problem before you start messing with swapping the hard drive.
> 
> Do you have access to a digital multi-meter?


Yes. However, I can at least move my UPS to the THD. I keep thinking that any PS issue or line issue...or even HDD issue would be random. WHY is it OK to record, play, or even watch live TV? It has rebooted if I switch tuners, but that has only happened once or twice.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> Yes. However, I can at least move my UPS to the THD. I keep thinking that any PS issue or line issue...or even HDD issue would be random. WHY is it OK to record, play, or even watch live TV? It has rebooted if I switch tuners, but that has only happened once or twice.


If your TiVo's power supply is marginal, then it's less able to ride out any glitches and dips on the power coming in and less able to handle a momentary extra load on the output side, and power to the CPU only has to dip below a certain point for a very short fraction of a second to cause it to reset.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

unitron said:


> If your TiVo's power supply is marginal, then it's less able to ride out any glitches and dips on the power coming in and less able to handle a momentary extra load on the output side, and power to the CPU only has to dip below a certain point for a very short fraction of a second to cause it to reset.


OK, well I will move the UPS there anyway. Will need to see the PS specs as well so I can tell with my DVM(s) if there is an issue and look at the caps.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> OK, well I will move the UPS there anyway. Will need to see the PS specs as well so I can tell with my DVM(s) if there is an issue and look at the caps.


Yellow +12V

Red +5V

Orange +3.3V

If it's a 648 there's a brown or gray wire that's around 8 or 9 Volts that's just for the OLED display and unlikely to have a problem.

Black, of course, is ground.

Just backprobe the plug on the motherboard.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

unitron said:


> Yellow +12V
> 
> Red +5V
> 
> ...


I have the 652160 THD.

I just connected the UPS, but will check the PS soon. How much can they vary and still be considered OK?


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> I have the 652160 THD.
> 
> I just connected the UPS, but will check the PS soon. How much can they vary and still be considered OK?


Post what you get, and we'll read the goat entrails and the phase of the moon.

Take readings with the hard drive connected and with it disconnected.

If you can alligator clamp the meter's - lead to the chassis away from the power supply so as to just have to use one hand to hold the + lead, do so.

And always know where both ends of the TiVo's power cord are.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

unitron said:


> Post what you get, and we'll read the goat entrails and the phase of the moon.
> 
> Take readings with the hard drive connected and with it disconnected.
> 
> ...


OK, I will try to do this tomorrow. 
BTW, I have been a Ham Radio Operator for 55+ years and am used to dealing with RF and voltages in the multi KV range.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> ...
> BTW, I have been a Ham Radio Operator for 55+ years and am used to dealing with RF and voltages in the multi KV range.


What are the odds the next person searching this site for helpful threads will be?


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

unitron said:


> What are the odds the next person searching this site for helpful threads will be?


Not very high. I hope the CAPS are fine as I am still surprised that this does not seem too random.

Is there an uncorrectable count that can cause the THD to reboot?


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> Not very high. I hope the CAPS are fine as I am still surprised that this does not seem too random.
> 
> Is there an uncorrectable count that can cause the THD to reboot?


If the 'lytics need replacing, better it happen to you who can do it for $10 in parts and have enough left over for a soda than to someone who doesn't know which end of a soldering iron to hold.

The only uncorrectable count of whom I am aware is A. Lucard.

(in other words, I have no idea what you meant by that sentence)


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

unitron said:


> If the 'lytics need replacing, better it happen to you who can do it for $10 in parts and have enough left over for a soda than to someone who doesn't know which end of a soldering iron to hold.
> 
> The only uncorrectable count of whom I am aware is A. Lucard.
> 
> (in other words, I have no idea what you meant by that sentence)


Well, I unplugged the THD and am ready to measure the voltage(s). The uncorrectable count is shown on each tuner when you do DVR Diags an look for the OOB.

P.S. The proper end of the Soldering iron can be learned after 1 error!


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> ...
> 
> P.S. The proper end of the Soldering iron can be learned after 1 error!


Some of us wind up taking refresher courses.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

unitron said:


> Some of us wind up taking refresher courses.


OK, this just in!

I have TCD652160.

PS is SPWR 00011 000 RevB2

NO bulging caps...not even the slightest. I looked at all of them but especially C501, C502, C701 and C504.

Voltages...or is that E is as follows.

With No HDD

5V measures 4.87 V
3.3V measures 3.33 V
12V measures 12.32 V

With HDD and TIVO rebooted and running...

5V measures 4.91 V
3.3V measures 3.33 V
12V measures 12.19 V

Now I have it on the UPS. I believe the PS is good. My next step is to leave it alone and see if it reboots on the UPS. If so, I can put the original HDD back in (I have the WD10EARS in there now) and see what happens. I will need a software update and season passes redone, but I only have 2 shows left now on the 1T drive, so it would be a good time to see if it is the HDD. If so, I can use UBCD to retest the 1T drive and see if that helps. Perhaps write all zero's anyway. I hope going back to the original HDD will not make the MCard mess up!


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> OK, this just in!
> 
> I have TCD652160.
> 
> ...


If you've got a 'scope you could check for excess ripple on the 5 and/or 12, but that PS is probably good, which means the problem is going to be harder to track down and fix.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

unitron said:


> If you've got a 'scope you could check for excess ripple on the 5 and/or 12, but that PS is probably good, which means the problem is going to be harder to track down and fix.


Well, I think I will let it run and see if, somehow, the UPS helped at all. If not, it would be worth trying to put the original HDD back in. I believe it is still configured for Verizon FiOS, but Frontier took over. That is why I hope the MCard will still work and I hesitate to play with that on a weekend!

OH, I do have a very expensive storage scope made by a local company , but I am not sure it would be worth digging up the probes!


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Well, after 2 days it did another reboot. As usual, nothing is lost. So, the UPS did not do anything and the PS is fine.

So, I want to take my 1TB WD10EARS out and put the original drive back in. I know it will need to update the Software and guide data. I hope the MCard will configure OK, but how can I put the Season Pass from the 1T drive back on the original drive? I am not woried about the shows as this is a good time...only 2 or 3 are on the WD10EARS now.

I looked online and the 1T drives 16 season passes are there but when I put the original Tivo drive back in, won't all of the updating mess up the season pass info on the tivo.com site? I mean won't it put the OLD season passes from the Original drive up on TIVO.COM while all the updating is going on?


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

unitron said:


> Did you increase the size of the swap partition when you embiggened the drive size?


What swap partition should I use, and I assume that I keep the WD10EARS jumper free!

WELL!!! I put back the original drive and it took HOURS to get the software and guide updates! It has now run great for a week, instead of rebooting every other day!

I took out the WD10EARS and ran the WinDLG thru a SATA to USB cable. Here is what I got!

Test Option:	QUICK TEST
Model Number:	WDC WD10 EARS-00Y5B1
Unit Serial Number:	
Firmware Number:	0A80
Capacity:	1000.20 GB
SMART Status:	Not Available
Test Result:	PASS
Test Time:	18:21:10, March 24, 2013

Test Option:	EXTENDED TEST
Model Number:	WDC WD10 EARS-00Y5B1
Unit Serial Number:	
Firmware Number:	0A80
Capacity:	1000.20 GB
SMART Status:	Not Available
Test Result:	FAIL
Test Error Code:	08-Too many bad sectors detected.
Test Time:	07:57:59, March 25, 2013

I may try again on my other system with a SATA III MoBo. UBCD 5.2.1 would not see the drive (I guess it has to be on the MoBo). Do you think I should move the drive to the newer system and try writing all zero's?

One issue...minor...with the original drive is that other THD's call it DVR-BE79 instead of BEDROOM, but EVERYTHING works great!

Should I even try to use WinMFS again or is this drive NG, and it did not have any SMART info!


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> What swap partition should I use, and I assume that I keep the WD10EARS jumper free!
> 
> WELL!!! I put back the original drive and it took HOURS to get the software and guide updates! It has now run great for a week, instead of rebooting every other day!
> 
> ...


If you had it hooked directly to the motherboard instead of via USB it would be able to give you the S.M.A.R.T. data, but don't bother because of this:

Test Error Code: 08-Too many bad sectors detected.

Time to start watching for the WD20EURS to go on sale again, and to find your receipt to see if you have any warranty left on that EARS.

That TiVo name issue, Bedroom versus a chunk of the TSN, should sort itself out in day or three. If not, you can go back to tivo.com and name it again.

That EARS might be semi-salvageable, but it'll never again be trustable.

Wait until you get a new drive to do anything with the EARS, then post back and we'll talk about it.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Well, I am not sure what I want to do. The problem is that it IS the Bedroom THD and 20 HRS may be OK. I do not think that spending $90+ for a new drive would be worth it. I am going to get P4's when the next deal is available...Mothers Day or Fathers day? I see on eBay that a lifetime 160GB vs. 1TB is only about a $75 difference so I am not sure what I should do at this point. One thought may be to try again on the other system. The reason is that the one I used was a SATA 1 controller and the newer system is SATA 3. The SATA to USB cable I used was also SATA 1 and I did not jumper the drive for SATA 1. 

I wonder if there are any low level format programs still available that would write the sector info and map bad sectors? We used to have that...I guess I can look at UBCD.

OH, if I do try WinMFS again, what was the default swap partition size and should we change it?

TIA,
Dave


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> Well, I am not sure what I want to do. The problem is that it IS the Bedroom THD and 20 HRS may be OK. I do not think that spending $90+ for a new drive would be worth it. I am going to get P4's when the next deal is available...Mothers Day or Fathers day? I see on eBay that a lifetime 160GB vs. 1TB is only about a $75 difference so I am not sure what I should do at this point. One thought may be to try again on the other system. The reason is that the one I used was a SATA 1 controller and the newer system is SATA 3. The SATA to USB cable I used was also SATA 1 and I did not jumper the drive for SATA 1.
> 
> I wonder if there are any low level format programs still available that would write the sector info and map bad sectors? We used to have that...I guess I can look at UBCD.
> 
> ...


A SATA 3 controller should be able to auto-adjust down to a SATA 1 drive, possibly easier and more reliably than a SATA 3 drive can auto-adjust down to a SATA 1 controller.

The DOS based version of the WD diagnostic on the UBCD should be able to re-allocate the bad sectors, giving their addresses to spare sectors that have been unused 'til now, unless there are so many there aren't enough spares to spare.

Although that loses what was in the bad sectors, it's less destructive than writing zeros to the entire drive or whatever.

Go ahead and put the 1TB back in the 652 and watch or transfer those 2 shows and get that out of the way.

Do you have any other spare hard drives lying around?


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

unitron said:


> A SATA 3 controller should be able to auto-adjust down to a SATA 1 drive, possibly easier and more reliably than a SATA 3 drive can auto-adjust down to a SATA 1 controller.
> 
> The DOS based version of the WD diagnostic on the UBCD should be able to re-allocate the bad sectors, giving their addresses to spare sectors that have been unused 'til now, unless there are so many there aren't enough spares to spare.
> 
> ...


There is NOTHING on the "bad" 1TB drive that I need any more. I transferred the 2 shows to a different THD before I ever put the original 160GB drive back in. I do have the BAD WD10EARS running now on the newer system. I am using windlg and it sure does not like what it sees...at least SMART seems to think it is at the limit for about everything. Sometimes when things look so bad, something else is wrong. IF the data in the sector is bad then writing zeros, even with the WINDLG may help. I do not have any spare HDD's around that would be big enough to even matter.

I wonder if WDC has a refurb? I can call them. My warranty ran out 1/2013, but I am sure it was pro-rated anyway!


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> There is NOTHING on the "bad" 1TB drive that I need any more.


Not even Season Passes and cable card pairings?

Make a truncated backup from the 1TB before you wipe it.

Maybe it'll be good, maybe not, depends on where the bad sectors are.

Once you get the original drive set up with the latest version of the TiVo software (11.0k) and whatever else, make a backup of it as well.

Don't get the two backups confused.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

unitron said:


> Not even Season Passes and cable card pairings?
> 
> Make a truncated backup from the 1TB before you wipe it.
> 
> ...


We are getting out of sync here. When I had a good sense from my excel sheet I created that I was getting a reboot every 2 days or so, we started watching the shows that were left. Being the Bedroom THD, there was not that much on there. We were down to a few shows that my wife wanted so I moved them to the DEN.

I then took my ORIGINAl 160GB THD drive and put it back in. I was surprised, many HOURS later, after it got the latest SW and then the Guide Data, the MCard was fine. It even survived going from Verizon FiOS to Frontier FiOS. I added the season passes and all is good now, so, there is NOTHING on the "bad" 1TB drive that I need.

I am still running the extended test on the SATA 3 system, but expect the same issue. That is why I had thought that perhaps a write zeros could help, but if the drive believes it has used all spare sectors, it may not help. Still, how can it be that bad and only reboot when idle? I mean, if it were that bad why did it not reboot while watching live tv, recording a show, or watching from our playlist?

WOW, I just got off the phone with WDC support. They said that it will be worth running write all zeros. IF that still fails, then my warranty ended 1/2013, but they can process a return and replace for 3 months beyond that!


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> We are getting out of sync here. When I had a good sense from my excel sheet I created that I was getting a reboot every 2 days or so, we started watching the shows that were left. Being the Bedroom THD, there was not that much on there. We were down to a few shows that my wife wanted so I moved them to the DEN.
> 
> I then took my ORIGINAl 160GB THD drive and put it back in. I was surprised, many HOURS later, after it got the latest SW and then the Guide Data, the MCard was fine. It even survived going from Verizon FiOS to Frontier FiOS. I added the season passes and all is good now, so, there is NOTHING on the "bad" 1TB drive that I need.
> 
> ...


Congrats on the extra warranty.

When I'm dealing with the TiVo problems of several posters at the same time, especially when it involves posts spread out over a number of days, my memory of which details go with which person and which of their TiVos can get a bit fuzzy.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

unitron said:


> Congrats on the extra warranty.
> 
> When I'm dealing with the TiVo problems of several posters at the same time, especially when it involves posts spread out over a number of days, my memory of which details go with which person and which of their TiVos can get a bit fuzzy.


No problem! I understand. I am starting to think that I should try the all zero's test and see what happens, but I am leaning in the direction of "getting a new drive and run". The Theater Room has a drive I bought at the same time. I should check it out!


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Well, I completed the long test on my SATA 3 system and it said PASSED! I looked at SMART data and it showed I am beyond what they want in a lot of areas, but I got the HIRENS DVD and it is supposed to have better SMART utils. Even 1 that will reset the data. I am thinking, as I write all zero's that I should call WD tomorrow and get more info on the replacement drive. I mean, can they send me a new drive that will not work in the TIVO? Not sure they would have a WD10EARS any more. I let them think that I am using the drive for Windows as I am not sure what they would say about the TIVO.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Well, I did the all zeros and it still showed all the spare sectors are used. I can call WD and see just what drive they will send me. I mean, I do not believe they have any NEW WD10EARS drives left.

As you said, even if writing zeros did somewhat help, it would be hard to ever trust this drive again, and by then it would be out of warranty, so I sort of have nothing to loose if they send me a drive that will work in the THD!


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> Well, I did the all zeros and it still showed all the spare sectors are used. I can call WD and see just what drive they will send me. I mean, I do not believe they have any NEW WD10EARS drives left.
> 
> As you said, even if writing zeros did somewhat help, it would be hard to ever trust this drive again, and by then it would be out of warranty, so I sort of have nothing to loose if they send me a drive that will work in the THD!


Offer to pay them a little extra if they'll send you a WD20EURS.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

unitron said:


> Offer to pay them a little extra if they'll send you a WD20EURS.


I can see what they say, but I am not sure what that will buy me. Here is why. I want a P4, and that drive would be great. However, if I put it in my THD, and take it out and then use it in a P4, selling the THD would get me back to the "is it worth it to just sell it as a lifetime 160GB unit" question.

Still, it can not hurt to ask. Keep in mind that <$100 is easy online anyway.

I will call them now!

Film @11 as they say on the T and V.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

$40 but I do not think it is worth it. Why? Because either drive will have a 90 day warranty! So, why bother with a recert wd20eurs when a wd10ears is free.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> I can see what they say, but I am not sure what that will buy me. Here is why. I want a P4, and that drive would be great. However, if I put it in my THD, and take it out and then use it in a P4, selling the THD would get me back to the "is it worth it to just sell it as a lifetime 160GB unit" question.
> 
> Still, it can not hurt to ask. Keep in mind that <$100 is easy online anyway.
> 
> ...


Lifetime will do a lot more for the resale value than what kind or size of drive is in it.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

unitron said:


> Lifetime will do a lot more for the resale value than what kind or size of drive is in it.


Yes, so a 1TB vs. a 2TB would not matter. When I get the 1TB WD10EARS, I will have to study the WinMFS info again. It has been so long since I did all 3 of my THD's. I still have the .exe I got 1/22/09 and assume it is current. I forgot how I registered on the site. I had heard that it was not required any more but I guess it is.

OH, it has been a week and the other 2 THD's still do not call the BEDROOM THD anything but that DVR-BE45 type of name. I will not bother with fixing it until I put my "new" (recert) WD10EARS in.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

UNITRON...a quick question!

After all of the above, WDC sent me an email giving the s/n of my replacement drive. I still do not have any ship status, but do have the new s/n and model of the replacement drive. 

SO, I was told that for FREE I would get a WD10EARS, but they are sending me a WD20EZRX!

I assume that is OK. Not sure if I still need wdidle3 and AAM software.
However, since I now have my ORIGINAL Tivo drive running fine with the latest SW and guide info, etc, can I now use WINMFS to get 300+ hours instead of the 1TB 157 hrs? Will WINMFS let me use the extra space on the 2TB drive they are sending since the source now will be a normal untouched 160GB Tivo drive? I would use the 2 drive method and have it copy the few shows that are on the 160GB drive.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> UNITRON...a quick question!
> 
> After all of the above, WDC sent me an email giving the s/n of my replacement drive. I still do not have any ship status, but do have the new s/n and model of the replacement drive.
> 
> ...


If the source drive has been updated to version 11.0k of the TiVo software (which has been out for a couple of years now), then you can use WinMFS to copy anything smaller than 2TB to a 2TB and expand.

My concern is the particular model they're giving you, as it's a newer one, and I don't know if the 4k sectors advanced format thing and the 6Gb/s thing will interfere with it working in a TiVo that came out when drives were 512 sector and 1.5Gb/s.

You can (laboriously) search this site for WD drives with Z and/or X in the model name to see if anyone else has anything good or bad to say about them for TiVos.

Of course you could always use that drive in a newer PC to store shows copied from your TiVo(s) and get a WD20EURS, available for $95 'til April 1st at newegg.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9588461#post9588461

or see if Amazon is price matching.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

unitron said:


> If the source drive has been updated to version 11.0k of the TiVo software (which has been out for a couple of years now), then you can use WinMFS to copy anything smaller than 2TB to a 2TB and expand.
> 
> My concern is the particular model they're giving you, as it's a newer one, and I don't know if the 4k sectors advanced format thing and the 6Gb/s thing will interfere with it working in a TiVo that came out when drives were 512 sector and 1.5Gb/s.
> 
> ...


I see if I put a jumper on pins 5-6 it Forces SATA3 (or II if that is how you track it), so that should be fine. Also, wasn't the WD10EARS also advanced format 4k sectors? I can, at least, let everyone know if this does work as it is a new drive model.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> I see if I put a jumper on pins 5-6 it Forces SATA3 (or II if that is how you track it), so that should be fine. Also, wasn't the WD10EARS also advanced format 4k sectors? I can, at least, let everyone know if this does work as it is a new drive model.


Well, there's advanced format and then there's advanced format.

Some of the 4k sector drives, mostly the first ones when the changeover started, are capable of presenting themselves to the outside world as 512 byte sector drives, but some of the newer ones don't do that and I don't know what the ZRXs do.

And I don't know if TiVos know how to deal with that or not.

The annoying part is that 4k sectors were only needed for drives bigger than 2TB in the first place, so making 2TB and under drives "AF" is just an unneccessary booby trap.

You could also grab one of those EURSs while they're available and keep it on hand in case you need a new drive for any other S3 or newer TiVo's.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Well they do have an align tool to fix this but I suppose that if I try to just use it I will see if it works. If not, I can always just do the align and use it in my eSATA box for my XP systems, as there is a 1TB in there now.. As you said, worst case is that I keep the 160GB drive in the Bedroom and sell it that way when I do get P4's. The fact that they are lifetime is what counts anyway!



unitron said:


> Well, there's advanced format and then there's advanced format.
> 
> Some of the 4k sector drives, mostly the first ones when the changeover started, are capable of presenting themselves to the outside world as 512 byte sector drives, but some of the newer ones don't do that and I don't know what the ZRXs do.
> 
> ...


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

unitron said:


> My concern is the particular model they're giving you, as it's a newer one, and I don't know if the 4k sectors advanced format thing and the 6Gb/s thing will interfere with it working in a TiVo that came out when drives were 512 sector and 1.5Gb/s.
> 
> You can (laboriously) search this site for WD drives with Z and/or X in the model name to see if anyone else has anything good or bad to say about them for TiVos.
> 
> Of course you could always use that drive in a newer PC to store shows copied from your TiVo(s) and get a WD20EURS, available for $95 'til April 1st at newegg.


Unitron,

The WD20EURS is an advanced format drive as well with a 3Gb/s SATA interface. The 6Gb/s interface should negotiate down.

http://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5473/~/specifications-for-the-wd-av-gp-advanced-format-internal-hard-drives

Scott


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

HerronScott said:


> Unitron,
> 
> The WD20EURS is an advanced format drive as well with a 3Gb/s SATA interface. The 6Gb/s interface should negotiate down.
> 
> ...


Scott, I was planning to add the jumper to force 3Gb/s. It can not hurt. I can then put this WD20EZRX in and try wdidle3 /D and also enable AAM.

At that point, since my stock 160GB Tivo drive is updated with the current Software, etc, should I answer YES when it asks if I want to expand as it sees a 2 TB drive? I believe that the 1.26 GB limit has now been resolved with the current 11.0k Software.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> Scott, I was planning to add the jumper to force 3Gb/s. It can not hurt. I can then put this WD20EZRX in and try wdidle3 /D and also enable AAM.
> 
> At that point, since my stock 160GB Tivo drive is updated with the current Software, etc, should I answer YES when it asks if I want to expand as it sees a 2 TB drive? I believe that the 1.26 GB limit has now been resolved with the current 11.0k Software.


Do the expansion separately with mfsadd.

Copy from the 160, which will be the first drive you selected when you clicked select drive.

When it finishes copying, tell it no when it offers to expand.

Then click select drive again, and this time select the 2TB drive.

Then click mfsinfo and make sure nothing looks horribly wrong (it should show a huge Apple Free partition in the partition map), then back out of that and click mfsadd.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

unitron said:


> Of course you could always use that drive in a newer PC to store shows copied from your TiVo(s) and get a WD20EURS, available for $95 'til April 1st at newegg.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9588461#post9588461
> 
> or see if Amazon is price matching.


Careful with NewEgg. I asked their Customer Service about how they will ship this drive and was told it does NOT come in a small cardboard box from WD (where the drive is secured by two plastic end caps). Rather, it will be tossed (my word) into a box with some peanuts where it can bounce around all the way to your home. Of course, if it's DOA they'll replace it, but it's the latent damage that concerns me.

I'd pay Amazon $15 more to have the drive packaged and shipped properly.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

unitron said:


> Do the expansion separately with mfsadd.
> 
> Copy from the 160, which will be the first drive you selected when you clicked select drive.
> 
> ...


Great, when do I tell it to Supersize? OH, drive will be here Monday. I think I will run a full test, should take 8 hrs! However, I believe I will run this test before I use WDIDLE3 or AAM.

P.S, with the original 160GB drive in the TIVO it is well on its way to 1,000,000 seconds and still no reboots!


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

bmgoodman said:


> Careful with NewEgg. I asked their Customer Service about how they will ship this drive and was told it does NOT come in a small cardboard box from WD (where the drive is secured by two plastic end caps). Rather, it will be tossed (my word) into a box with some peanuts where it can bounce around all the way to your home. Of course, if it's DOA they'll replace it, but it's the latent damage that concerns me.
> 
> I'd pay Amazon $15 more to have the drive packaged and shipped properly.


It is funny that Newegg does this. As you can see from this thread, WDC is sending me a replacement drive. They warn that even the "bad" drive has to be shipped as follows.

All products require stable and sufficient packing material, needed to protect the product from ESD (Electro Static Discharge) influences and possible damage during transport. Required Packaging Steps:
A. Place drive in ESD (Electro Static Discharge) Bag (For internal drives only.)
B. Wrap with 2 inches of bubble wrap or non-movable foam cushioning
C. Place in sturdy cardboard box. Do not use chipboard, as it is not strong enough to withstand the rigors of transit. Please make sure the corrugated carton is free from defects and is structurally sound. Note: Returning a WD hard drive in an envelope, will void the warranty.

I have gotten drives from Newegg and Amazon and am surprised at the way Newegg shipps the drive!


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> Great, when do I tell it to Supersize? ...


Whenever you want to, basically, but I'd probably save that for last.

In theory I suppose you could supersize the 160, and that would carry over in the copying, just like cable card pairings, Season Passes, etc.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

unitron said:


> Whenever you want to, basically, but I'd probably save that for last.
> 
> In theory I suppose you could supersize the 160, and that would carry over in the copying, just like cable card pairings, Season Passes, etc.


I will save it for last then. I believe I will leave the new HDD alone when it comes to the Align software that WD provides. It seems to be an XP issue anyway and I have not seen that anyone has even had an issue with it in a TIVO. If not aligned, it only slows down XP, it does not cause a failure. I will, however, jumper pins 5-6 to force 3Gb/sec on this 6 Gb/sec drive.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

bmgoodman said:


> Careful with NewEgg. I asked their Customer Service about how they will ship this drive and was told it does NOT come in a small cardboard box from WD (where the drive is secured by two plastic end caps). Rather, it will be tossed (my word) into a box with some peanuts where it can bounce around all the way to your home. Of course, if it's DOA they'll replace it, but it's the latent damage that concerns me.
> 
> I'd pay Amazon $15 more to have the drive packaged and shipped properly.


 I recently bought a hard drive from Newegg.
Mine came in a sealed anti static bag, nested in plastic end caps in a properly sized hard cardboard box, inside a larger box filled with wadded up brown paper.
I guess it's a good thing the UPS employees didn't substitute my package for a football. 

How does Amazon ship their drives?


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

OK, just got my WD20EZRX delivered. I will short pins 5 and 6 to force 3 Gb/sec, however and then run windlg.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Update for my many readers. 

For some reason the WD10EARS took 4 hours to run the long test in WinDLG. This WD20EZRX took only 1 extra hour at 5 hours. All is clean. I only added a jumper to force SATAII (3Gb/sec). Not sure it was required but both my system and the TIVO use that speed. This is a 6 Gb/sec drive so I figured it could not hurt.

One thing that I tried, however, was HDD Scan to deal with AAM, but it said it was not supported on this drive. Comments online, however, say that this is a very quiet drive anyway. I will confirm as it is going into our Bedroom TIVO.

I did run WDIDLE3 /D from the UBCD ver 5.2.1 DVD that I made and it did work fine.

SO, it is too late for me to take the 160GB drive out of the Bedroom TIVO now, but I will tomorrow and let you know how it goes. In this way, perhaps, we will have another 2TB WD drive to add to the list.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Well, all went OK I guess, and I did the expand at the end as I said NO.



unitron said:


> Do the expansion separately with mfsadd. There was a 1.7 TB Apple Free partition and at the end I did the expand and SuperSize.
> 
> However, it says I have 198HD hours. Better than the 1TB 157 hours but why don't I get 318 hours?
> 
> ...


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Well, all went OK I guess, and I did the expand at the end as I said NO. There was a 1.7 TB Apple Free partition and at the end I did the expand and SuperSize.

However, it says I have 198HD hours. Better than the 1TB 157 hours but why don't I get 318 hours?

So, I did this over and I did not wait 'til the end and it says 318 HD hours. Now I will see if this new drive stops the reboots as the original Tivo 160 GB drive did.



unitron said:


> Do the expansion separately with mfsadd.
> 
> Copy from the 160, which will be the first drive you selected when you clicked select drive.
> 
> ...


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

steve614 said:


> I recently bought a hard drive from Newegg.
> Mine came in a sealed anti static bag, nested in plastic end caps in a properly sized hard cardboard box, inside a larger box filled with wadded up brown paper.
> I guess it's a good thing the UPS employees didn't substitute my package for a football.
> 
> How does Amazon ship their drives?


That sounds like the way Amazon shipped the WD20EURS that I got from them.

It, of course, does not come in a retail box like a regular Caviar Green sitting on the shelf at Best Buy.

I got another EURS from newegg more recently, and I remember the silvered sealed A/S envelope, but not how it was packed.

But it passed the long test and is working fine.

If it had been one of those "free to slide around inside the bigger box" deals, I think I'd remember.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Well, it seems as though the new drive fixed it all! So, I guess we can add the WD20EZRX to the list. I get 318 hours of HD and for SD hours I get...who cares! 

Anyway, all I did was to add the jumper to force 3Gb/s transfer (not sure I had to) and ran wdidle3. I tried AAM, but it said the drive did not support that feature. At any rate, it is quiet and is in our Bedroom.

SO, all that is left now, perhaps, is to sell it as we just ordered a P4 and an XL4 yesterday. This THD is lifetime and we know it does not have any PS cap issues. Plus it has a just installed 2TB drive.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Well, it has not rebooted even once! So all is good and the PS is also good. This now has the cablecard in the P4 next to it. Now I will sell it! As I said, the P4 and XL4 came and now all is good. This should be a great THD Lifetime with 2TB drive installed 4/2/2013 and verified good PS. I have all original manuals and boxes and there is not a scratch anywhere. I sure would like to sell it here and avoid the eBay trouble.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> I sure would like to sell it here and avoid the eBay trouble.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=30&f=72


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

steve614 said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=30&f=72


I will get the box and list it. I took a picture of the sysinfo screen showing Lifetime and 318 HD hours. Would it be OK to unplug it, or should I clear anything? I guess it will be what a buyer wants to see.


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