# Tivo better than Comcast DVR?



## tivonewbie155 (Feb 5, 2005)

I've heard tivo is great. I've had a comcast dvr in the past. It seemed to do the job fine... Why is tivo so much better?


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

To have a meaningful comparison, you need to indicate what box and more importantly what software is on the box that Comcast provides in your area. They've got at least iGuide, SARA and MSTV deployed depending on what are you live in. They're from different vendors and totally unrelated.

If random people comment on their Comcast DVR, they may not have the same as what you did. http://www.comcast.com/dvrselect/ is a partial list of what they have. I hear they have Moxi deployed in some areas too now.


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

There are a few more features, and the user interface is exceptional. Some Comcast DVR's have stability and other issues. I too use the Comcast DVR. Used to have a TiVo. I have had zero problems with the Comcast (Motorola 3412 HD-DVR) unit. But as in most things, there are other features, etc. that folks want. Supposedly a version of the TiVo software will be available on the Comcast/Motorola DVR's sometime in 2007. Not much info on what features it will have, and what the add'l cost will be.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

HomieG said:


> . I have had zero problems with the Comcast (Motorola 3412 HD-DVR) unit.


What software is on it? iGuide?


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

cwerdna said:


> What software is on it? iGuide?


You know, you don't have to keep asking that every time someone posts about a Comcast Motorola DVR. I posted general comments. If someone has a specific answer, I'll take the time to post that add'l info.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Well, it's big pet peeve of mine when people aren't comparing apples to apples but rather apples to oranges or apples to pears in some cases. With the right info, people can make proper comparisons.


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## tivonewbie155 (Feb 5, 2005)

Well, I used to live in Seattle and have the motorola from comcast. Now I'm in San Francisco and looking and deciding between Series 2 single tuner Tivo, whatever comcast offers in my area (probably motorola w/ dual tuners), or nothing at all and pocketing the $20 a month.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

cwerdna said:


> Well, it's big pet peeve of mine when people aren't comparing apples to apples but rather apples to oranges or apples to pears in some cases. With the right info, people can make proper comparisons.


It really doesn't matter - I've seen them all and they're ALL worse than Tivo.


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## 20TIL6 (Sep 7, 2006)

tivonewbie155 said:


> I've heard tivo is great. I've had a comcast dvr in the past. It seemed to do the job fine... Why is tivo so much better?


I had a Comcast DVR and all seemed fine until one morning I woke up and it had killed my entire family. 

I immediately sent it back and got a TiVo.

TiVo DVR's are more family friendly. 

Disclaimer: I've never really had a Comcast DVR, but I have had several TiVo's for quite some time and my family has been safe. Your mileage may vary.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

tivonewbie155 said:


> Well, I used to live in Seattle and have the motorola from comcast. Now I'm in San Francisco and looking and deciding between Series 2 single tuner Tivo, whatever comcast offers in my area (probably motorola w/ dual tuners), or nothing at all and pocketing the $20 a month.


Ok, most likely had Microsoft's MSTV if you had a Motorola PVR from Comcast up in Seattle. As far as I know, in the SF Bay Area, Comcast offers iGuide which is totally different.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

I had the whatever the picture showed on the Comcast Motorola page linked above. Didn't see anywhere what the name of the software was called. My biggest gripe was that the "trick play" functions were not smooth and unresponsive. When I hit pause, I want it to pause now, now wait 3 seconds, jump forward about 3 more then have the screen go blank for a half second and then show a paused image somewhere close to but not exactly where I had hit the pause button. Pain in the neck to do anything.

I could rant a while longer about the rest of it, but that was the thing that I tried to do most often and caused me the most heartache. The Tivo UI is just so much better it is amazing.


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## mtchamp (May 15, 2001)

I had a Comcast DVR for a couple months during my switch from DirecTV to the Series3. I have used Series1 and Series2 TiVos including the DirecTV model plus a DVD model and TiVo is intelligent, smooth, polished and the the Comcast DVR is retarded by comparison. Better performance, more features and very reliable; worth the price of admission. Get a Series3 for cable or FIOS; it's awesome.

I was so happy to see the cable guy take my Motorola DVR away. Button presses would take 10 seconds and menu navigation was a maze. It was just plain stupid compared to TiVo. If you can afford the difference in cost if there is any, then get the TiVo or wait until Comcast provides a TiVo software upgrade to currently installed Motorola DVR's starting around April. I don't know that you'll save much money when that happens or get all the TiVo features.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

I referred to my Motorola box with iGuide as "darkening the shrine of my media"

I think the whole room got brighter and warmer when the S3 came in.

Diane


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

jfh3 said:


> It really doesn't matter - I've seen them all and they're ALL worse than Tivo.


No; they're not. They're intrinsically neither better or worse.

TiVo arguably has the highest reliability of DVR products. But even some TiVo boxes appear to work better than others, while other DVR models now approach or even equal TiVo's reliability. TiVo's Series 2 boxes' tuners are noticiably less sensitive than many, including both conventional cable boxes and DVR's.

TiVo is better at doing what TiVo has been specifically designed to do; combining a DVR with a search engine for totally automated delayed TV watching. If a viewer does NOT want to watch almost all TV on a delayed basis TiVo is NOT the best DVR; it's often annoying in its seemingly neverending selection of nitpicking details.

As an example, one of the stupidest things about the Series 3 box is the front panel brightness level options. No matter what brightness level is selected (except off) it reverts to dimmer than dim until a remote button is pushed to make it legible for a few seconds. And why doesn't it, if a user selects, display both the time and channels the tuners are buffering instead of just what is being recorded?

TiVo's grid guide is arguably one of the worst available while its much better live guide is cluttered, with too much displayed on a single page for easy viewing. And its recording buffer is the shortest available from any DVR.

Other recorders even provide a user adjustable length of their recording buffers and skip ahead and replay jumps, as well as adjustable offsets for FF/RW. With TiVo a user has to play games just to enable 30 sec. skip!

TiVo has the most confusing pricing of any DVR product; if not any consumer product. TiVo's policies have even inadvertantly created a secondary market for TiVo Lifetime Service, while not providing adequate safeguards against fraud. Why does TiVo choose to accept a service number as the basis for Lifetime Service unless a customer actually posseses the associated box? When a fraudulent number is provided TiVo doesn't even know unless the owner of the associated box calls in to complain about losing service.

The only thing for sure is that no matter how confusing TiVo's prices are, its service is by far the most expensive. But that's because TiVo still hasn't succeeded in turning a profit after 9 years in business even after making deals for all kinds of auxilliary services. Maybe it just can't!


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

GoHokies! said:


> I had the whatever the picture showed on the Comcast Motorola page linked above. Didn't see anywhere what the name of the software was called. My biggest gripe was that the "trick play" functions were not smooth and unresponsive. ...
> Pain in the neck to do anything.
> 
> I could rant a while longer about the rest of it, but that was the thing that I tried to do most often and caused me the most heartache. The Tivo UI is just so much better it is amazing.


So, did it look like the one labeled tvguide.com at http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/dct6412_multimedia_demo.asp? (Click on Interactive Program Guide in the Flash movie)


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

TiVo Troll said:


> But that's because TiVo still hasn't succeeded in turning a profit after 9 years in business even after making deals for all kinds of auxilliary services. Maybe it just can't!


They turned a barely profitable quarter once. See http://investor.tivo.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=172095.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

TiVo Troll said:


> The only thing for sure is that no matter how confusing TiVo's prices are, its service is by far the most expensive. But that's because TiVo still hasn't succeeded in turning a profit after 9 years in business even after making deals for all kinds of auxilliary services. Maybe it just can't!


Yes, absolutely. TiVo is "better" quality, perhaps more reliable, but much more expensive that the alternatives, on the average.


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## jeffk (Oct 15, 2002)

Much more expensive is even debatable. Because many times Comcast doesn't allow you to get the dvr unless you have a certain service level, so if you just wanted analog and the dvr, thats not always possible [beside even if it was, its not really much cheaper. 8.50 for the box and 5.00 for the dvr a month]. I know I am not factoring in the initial cost of the tivo box. Just making a point, sometimes the monthly fee can be much higher for a cable dvr when they make you get services you could do without.

I had a SA8300HD with SARA software before my series3 [i have had prior to that 4-5 years of a series2]. The SARA software is atrocious, but other software on the motorola boxes is apparently better, but sara is atrocious [the only good thing it had going for it was the esata expansion], but other then that, pure and utter crap].


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

cwerdna said:


> So, did it look like the one labeled tvguide.com at http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/dct6412_multimedia_demo.asp? (Click on Interactive Program Guide in the Flash movie)


Yep, that's exactly it. Thanks for the help.

I can now say that my Comcast Motorola box *RUNNING iGuide* is the one that sucked really bad.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Comcast DVR's are extremely basic and quite frankly, frustrating to use once you have gotten used to TiVo. It has no "skip to tick", no "30 second skip or instant replay" It has a considerable lag in response time. You have to use the grid menu system and the picture quality is not as good. There is aboslutely no comparison between the two. The Comcast DVR is as basic as it gets and doesn't even do THAT very well. It's barely a step up from a VCR. I can't WAIT for Comcast to implement the TIvo software in their boxes.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

bareyb said:


> Comcast DVR's are extremely basic and quite frankly, frustrating to use once you have gotten used to TiVo. It has no "skip to tick", no "30 second skip or instant replay".


What software was on your box? From downloading and looking at the user guides for all the ones provided (iGuide, SARA and MSTV) at http://www.comcast.com/dvrselect/, they all have an instant replay button.

The comparison done by DrStrange at http://www.pvrcompare.com/sciatlframe.html for his Scientific Altanta "Comcast DVR" running SARA (most likely won't help the OP) talks about instant replay working.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

TiVo Troll said:


> TiVo is better at doing what TiVo has been specifically designed to do; combining a DVR with a search engine for totally automated delayed TV watching. If a viewer does NOT want to watch almost all TV on a delayed basis TiVo is NOT the best DVR; it's often annoying in its seemingly neverending selection of nitpicking details.


What other use does ANY DVR have than watching TV "on a delayed basis"?
Why would anyone get a DVR if they didn't want to watch on a delayed basis (even if the 'delay' is 15 mins to skip commercials)?

It's not like a VCR, where most people use(d) them just for playing back rented tapes. (Not me, I had videotaped the vast majority of what I watched from the early '90s up until I got a Tivo.. since then I got another Tivo and a non-Tivo hard drive/DVD-recorder.. right now, I'm using 'chase play' to go through the Rockin' New Years Eve show to see if there are any good musical bits in it..)


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## yvovandoorn (Dec 27, 2006)

I switched from Comcast DVR to TiVo and I'm not looking back. I had the "lovely" Microsoft-based guide (all of Comcast served WA does) on a Motorola 6412. Here are some of the daily annoyances that I was able to reproduce on different Motorola 6412s in different locations.

Before I begin, it is nice that the Motorola 6412 is a dual tuner HD DVR just like the Series3 but alas most of the channels I watch are between 2 - 99, viewable without a cable box, the only two shows that requires my digital cable box are The Sopranos & Real Time with Bill Maher on HBO. Not to mention that my TV is not a HDTV set so there were no further advantages to me. 

Annoying problem #1 - The remote communication. 
This is probably the biggest issue of all with all 6412s I've seen. Getting the remote to talk to the unit is extremely difficult. With an absolute clear line of sight to the unit, no obstruction what-so-ever about 12-14 feet away imagine the following:

1. Commercial starts
2. You hit fast forward twice to buzz through the commercial only to find out that it only caught one of your fast forward presses so your buzzing along at 1x which is basically 1.5x speed of normal playback (not very fast). 
3. You hit FF again... no go hit it again and bam were at 2x. Yes!!
4. Commercial break is over. You hit play. Oh crud, it didn't catch my play. You hit play again. Nope. (3 minutes in to the program). Finally it plays.
5. You start hitting rewind to go back to the end of the break. You this time go back at 1x speed. 
6. You start hitting play about 10 seconds before you actually want to start playing and bam we are good to go. 

This is daily event, tried on many units with the same model remote. Had two Comcast techs out who stood in front of the TV with no problem. Yet 12 feet away and it doesn't work (but the tech doesn't want to try that). 

Annoying problem #2 - The RR / FF functionality. 
On the TiVo, you press FF twice to get to FF 2x and decide to slow down back to FF 1x, you hit the RR button to go back a step. Not on Microsoft's powered Motorola box. You hit RR and it starts in RR 1x. Yup rewinding. Umm... yeah not what I wanted. If you want to get back to FF 1x you have to hit FF 3 times (to go from FF 2x -> FF 3x -> FF 4x -> FF 1x) or hit play and FF again. But with problem #1... good luck. Better luck at rolling the dice in Las Vegas then at that adventure. 

Annoying problem #3 - The pause function. 
Combined with #1, this one is a blast as well. The phone rings. You want to pause "Live TV". Well first #1 comes into play. 6-7 seconds transpire (phone is between its 2nd and 3rd ring) and it gets the pause. Now it takes the box another 3-4 seconds to pause. First it will keep playing, pause, plays another second (seriously) and then FINALLY pauses. 

Annoying problem #4 - It's "Record a Series" function (Seasons Pass on TiVo). 
A great example. Boston Legal on ABC at 10pm every Tuesday. Seems easy enough. So in October I select to record the series. It records all the episodes until one week there was a special (ABC and its specials) and suddenly the week after no more recordings. Further more they then had a special airing of a new episode on a Sunday night. Didn't record that one either. Oh and their settings that determine to record old (repeats) and new episodes is like russian roulette as well. Another prime example is that I told it to record "The Simpsons" every Sunday night on Fox. I tell it record new episodes only but what does the DVR do? The local FOX station airs reruns of the Simpsons 2x a night M-Sat... lovely. I get 12 episodes of already seen episodes. 


End long rant.

This is why I dislike my Comcast DVR service so very much. The HD tuners really don't affect me at this point and if it ever does I'll purchase a Series3 TiVo.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

bareyb said:


> Comcast DVR's are extremely basic and quite frankly, frustrating to use once you have gotten used to TiVo. It has no "skip to tick", no "30 second skip or instant replay"


The Motorola 34xx/64xx DVRs provided by Comcast, don't have "skip to tick", which I do miss, but do have "30 second skip" and "instant replay".



bareyb said:


> It has a considerable lag in response time.


No worse than my Humax TiVo, even after the November upgrade (and surely much better than the Humax TiVo under 7.3).



bareyb said:


> You have to use the grid menu system and the picture quality is not as good.


I do miss the listing program guide system, preferring it to the grid, but the grid program guide in the Motorola DVR is much better than the grid program guide in the TiVo, IMHO. (And do be aware that there is an alternative way to view program guide information, "by Channel" -- it's not as good as TiVo's standard program guide, but it is a nice simulation thereof.)

I didn't notice any significant difference in PQ through digital cable, between the TiVo Series 3 and the Motorola DVR. (I had them working side-by-side for a week, and checked this quite closely.)

I think the problem is that the TiVo Series 3 and the Motorola DVR *are* comparable, at least in my experience, and overall to some extent: The S3 is *much* better, overall, but they're still "in the same league", whereas, for how much TiVo is charging for the S3, it should be in its own league. IMHO.


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

bareyb said:


> Comcast DVR's are extremely basic and quite frankly, frustrating to use once you have gotten used to TiVo. It has no "skip to tick", no "30 second skip or instant replay" ...


Having switched from a TiVo to a Comcast DVR, it took me about a day of use to get over learning the new menu system. Perhaps not terribly intuitive, but certainly not frustrating. And one-button scheduling of recordings directly on the guide is actually a very nice feature.

I've got 30 second skip and instant replay working just fine here on a Comcast Motorola 3412 HD-DVR. Skip to tick would be nice, but given the choice, I'd rather have the other two that are there.

Perhaps you had a different model or software version, but those features are definitely part of the unit I'm using from Comcast.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

TiVo Troll said:


> No; they're not. They're intrinsically neither better or worse.


I'm so glad you know my opinion better than I do.


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

Here is a link to a copy of the Wall Street Journal's Walter Mossberg's (their technology columnist) article comparing the TiVo S3 to Comcast's Motorola DVR.

http://biz.yahoo.com/seekingalpha/070101/23282_id.html?.v=1


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

jeffk said:


> Much more expensive is even debatable. Because many times Comcast doesn't allow you to get the dvr unless you have a certain service level, so if you just wanted analog and the dvr, thats not always possible [beside even if it was, its not really much cheaper. 8.50 for the box and 5.00 for the dvr a month]. I know I am not factoring in the initial cost of the tivo box. Just making a point, sometimes the monthly fee can be much higher for a cable dvr when they make you get services you could do without.


And this is a key point that so many forget when comparing. Minimum service level + box rental fee + franchise fee + tax = that "free" or "only $10" cable DVR usually ends up costing far more than a Tivo. No contract for a cable DVR, but most end up with a cable DVR for as long as they would have a Tivo, so that doesn't really matter.


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## DeathRider (Dec 30, 2006)

Don't have Comcast, but still Moto DVR...

Seems RCN in Ma uses the Passport Echo guide/Motorola DVR.

It's slow, unresponsive. 2nd on the HDD is having errors. Sound cuts out and have to switch channels abd back for the sound to return.

Also, I went and unchecked all the channels my brother doesn't receive...they _*still*_ show up in the guide 

What's the point if he doesn't receive the 50 channels are so, but they are still listed?


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## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

jfh3 said:


> And this is a key point that so many forget when comparing. Minimum service level + box rental fee + franchise fee + tax = that "free" or "only $10" cable DVR usually ends up costing far more than a Tivo. No contract for a cable DVR, but most end up with a cable DVR for as long as they would have a Tivo, so that doesn't really matter.


Yea, people are always claiming TiVo is too expensive, but it's just not true. The only "more expensive" element is the TiVo's up-front cost. The naysayers always neglect the additional fees that come with a cable co. DVR. Rental fees on top of fees for prerequisite services can add up to *more* than the most expensive TiVo subscription payment option. For example, my local provider charges $12 rental plus a $7 base fee so the DVR rental is actually $19. They also require a digital package with a higher fee than basic cable. For example, going from basic analog cable with an S2 to a cable co. DVR would more than double the overall monthly cost. Even when comparing a HD DVR package with the S3, TiVo provides lower overall monthly costs.


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

CraigHB said:


> Yea, people are always claiming TiVo is too expensive, but it's just not true. The only "more expensive" element is the TiVo's up-front cost. The naysayers always neglect the additional fees that come with a cable co. DVR. Rental fees on top of fees for prerequisite services can add up to *more* than the most expensive TiVo subscription payment option. For example, my local provider charges $12 rental plus a $7 base fee so the DVR rental is actually $19. They also require a digital package with a higher fee than basic cable. For example, going from basic analog cable with an S2 to a cable co. DVR would more than double the overall monthly cost. Even when comparing a HD DVR package with the S3, TiVo provides lower overall monthly costs.


True, but that depends if you either had those services with another provider, or wish to pay for them now. In my case, I got more content, for less money, at higher quality, then simply had to add $5.99/month for their HD-DVR, which works well for me. YMMV.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

bicker said:


> The Motorola 34xx/64xx DVRs provided by Comcast, don't have "skip to tick", which I do miss, but do have "30 second skip" and "instant replay".
> 
> No worse than my Humax TiVo, even after the November upgrade (and surely much better than the Humax TiVo under 7.3).
> 
> ...


Well I have to admit. I ASSumed it didn't have 30 second skip. No mention of it in the piece of paper (aka "manual") they gave me with the DVR and the guy at Comcast said it couldn't do it. So that's huge news and a very welcome addition. I still think the box is laggy and apparently that's common on these boxes, but overall I'm a lot happier. 30 second skip combined with instant replay is ESSENTIAL in a DVR as far as I'm concerned. I'll try the "Channel" program guide and see if that's any better than the grid. Thanks for the advice. This forum is a God send. I feel much less angry now and while I still can't wait for them to use Tivo, this isn't nearly as bad as I thought. Be nice if Comcast provided the same information to their customers when you pick up the boxes... Gotta love this forum.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Ok, from looking at the posts so far, here's what PVR software the various folks on this thread have:

GoHokies: iGuide
yvovandoorn: MSTV
HomieG, mtchamp, bicker: unknown, most likely iGuide or less likely MSTV
Walt Mossberg at WSJ: most likely iGuide since I don't think he lives in WA state
DeathRider: non-Comcast DVR w/Passport Echo

For those who seem to "love" iGuide, I was just looking at the iGuide dual tuner demo at http://www.i-guide.tv/A23/index.html and it's funny how they say iGuide is "Intuitive, Intelligent and Inspiring"!


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

CraigHB said:


> Yea, people are always claiming TiVo is too expensive, but it's just not true. The only "more expensive" element is the TiVo's up-front cost. The naysayers always neglect the additional fees that come with a cable co. DVR. Rental fees on top of fees for prerequisite services can add up to *more* than the most expensive TiVo subscription payment option. For example, my local provider charges $12 rental plus a $7 base fee so the DVR rental is actually $19. They also require a digital package with a higher fee than basic cable. For example, going from basic analog cable with an S2 to a cable co. DVR would more than double the overall monthly cost. Even when comparing a HD DVR package with the S3, TiVo provides lower overall monthly costs.


Bad math!! I have the Moto from Comcast if I give it for a Series 3 I save $10/ month for the DVR $5.25 for the box 0.30 for the remote= $15.55 + other fees gives a drop in my cable bill of $17.40/month. For a Series 3 I need 2 cable cards at $6.24 /month for both including other fees so net savings is $11.16/month. I give up on demand that I don't care about (some people do), the big give up for me is the unlimited on sight warranty (with no obsolence risk) Comcast gives. HDTV picture no good we (Comcast) will fix it, in two years Comcast changed out my Cable box 4 times at no cost to me. For now the low hassle factor is the main reason I am not getting a Series 3, not its cost, but don't say the Series 3 costs less when you add in the box and 3rd party warranty cost.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

I had iGuide.. hated it!


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## SC0TLANDF0REVER (Dec 9, 2001)

I dislike *not* being able to tell the channel display what channels I don't want to see on the Cable Co's box. Channels like all 20 'local community' channels and stuff I'll never watch.

Of course that will all be solved when my S3 arrives.


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## bonnie_raitt (Sep 14, 2001)

I have Mot 3412 in WA state. I hate it.

We do not have 30 sec skip ahead here


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

bonnie_raitt said:


> I have Mot 3412 in WA state. I hate it.
> 
> We do not have 30 sec skip ahead here


You do but Comcast does not put the button on the remote they give you, with the Harmony remote the 30sec skip is in their data base and works.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

This quote from the above referenced article sums up my biggest remaining gripe (besides skip to tick) with the Commie Box.



> The worst problem is that the Comcast box flubs the basic functions of a DVR. It is maddeningly slow at responding to commands sent by the remote control to pause, play, fast-forward and rewind. You press pause and nothing happens. So you press it again. You try to return to normal speed after fast-forwarding through commercials and the unit takes so long to obey your command that you badly overshoot the resumption of the program.


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## jeffk (Oct 15, 2002)

Is there a way on the Series3 to tell what resolution we're watching? I know sometimes it's displayed in the info screen though not always.

The Comcast DVR used to always display the resolution on the front panel, the series3 seems not to. I'd like to know at times whether its in 480i, 720p, or 1080i. [I can usually guess since i know what the majors broadcast in], but still would be nice to tell if there is a way on the S3.

Thanks,

Jeff


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

SPS-instant replay-S

This will tell you the source resolution, which may or may not be the resolution that the S3 is sending to the TV (depending on if you're in native mode or not).


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## jeffk (Oct 15, 2002)

Thanks, I didn't know about that code. I am doing native, so it should tell me the native resolution, thanks.

Jeff


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

GoHokies! said:


> SPS-instant replay-S
> 
> This will tell you the source resolution, which may or may not be the resolution that the S3 is sending to the TV (depending on if you're in native mode or not).


Is the resolution listed in the INFO box not reliable?


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

GoHokies! said:


> SPS-instant replay-S
> 
> This will tell you the source resolution, which may or may not be the resolution that the S3 is sending to the TV (depending on if you're in native mode or not).


Good to know... Does that toggle it on and off or does it go away on it's own?


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

It's a toggle - has a handful of other info (what channel each tuner is on, etc).

I also use it as a "reboot detector" since it will go off if the Tivo reboots - that's why I can say that my S3 has NEVER rebooted on its own.


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## jeffk (Oct 15, 2002)

CharlesH said:


> Is the resolution listed in the INFO box not reliable?


It seems to be reliable. But if your using the QAM tuner, without cablecards [until the installed gives it a try again saturday]. Qam channels have no guide data, thus no resolution there. All is says is "Regular Schedule" No information Available.

I havn't had a cablecard work yet to know if the resolution is said right on the HD channels


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

lessd said:


> You do but Comcast does not put the button on the remote they give you, with the Harmony remote the 30sec skip is in their data base and works.


Not necessarily. It could vary depending on the local provider. Since you're in CT, it seems extremely unlikely that you have MSTV. Bonnie_raitt in WA state and in the Seattle area so she likely has MSTV.


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## Scott F (Jan 5, 2007)

My Comcast DVR will FF live TV, but not recorded programs. 

Even my years old Series 1 Tivo was better than this garbage.


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## JC Hollywood FL (May 17, 2004)

Scott F said:


> My Comcast DVR will FF live TV, but not recorded programs.


I think this would make my anger-management issues surface in such a way that Comcast would call the cops on me.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

I have no problem FF recorded programs using Comcast's Motorola 3416.


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## mazman (Nov 13, 2002)

Scott F said:


> My Comcast DVR will FF live TV, but not recorded programs.
> 
> Even my years old Series 1 Tivo was better than this garbage.


Pull the plug, wait 10 seconds, plug it back in and FF will work (probably). Note that it will take hours to repopulate the Guide.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

cwerdna said:


> They turned a barely profitable quarter once. See http://investor.tivo.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=172095.


You're right! Can they do it again?

How long can TiVo continue to lose around 10 million bucks each calendar quarter?


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## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

lessd said:


> Bad math!! I have the Moto from Comcast if I give it for a Series 3 I save $10/ month for the DVR $5.25 for the box 0.30 for the remote= $15.55 + other fees gives a drop in my cable bill of $17.40/month. For a Series 3 I need 2 cable cards at $6.24 /month for both including other fees so net savings is $11.16/month. I give up on demand that I don't care about (some people do), the big give up for me is the unlimited on sight warranty (with no obsolence risk) Comcast gives. HDTV picture no good we (Comcast) will fix it, in two years Comcast changed out my Cable box 4 times at no cost to me. For now the low hassle factor is the main reason I am not getting a Series 3, not its cost, but don't say the Series 3 costs less when you add in the box and 3rd party warranty cost.


The example I made neglects the up-front cost. I was only talking about monthly costs. Comparisons vary depending on your provider. In my case, using an S3 with 3 year pre-pay and high definition digital cable service results in a much lower monthly fee. The savings would pay for the TiVo + Subscription in a few years. So, I can't say that TiVo is *more* expensive in the long-run. As far as warranty services, I've not had any need to replace any of my Tivo boxes for several years. The fact that you've had to replace 4 cable boxes is not a good quality indicator for your provider's equipment. Believe me, the equipment coverage is not going to be worth the heartache when my wife loses all her recorded shows. Failure is not an option there.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

I currently use the Comcast Motorolla DCT6412III and have been a long time TiVo user. In terms of software ease of use and reliability, the TiVo is much better. The 6412 does 30 second skip but the FF is slow and cumbersome. The 6412 does have firewire for archiving to my D-VHS VCR so I am thinking of ending my DirecTV subscription but haven't made that decision yet. Based solely on DVR functionality, I don't think it is even close.

Chris


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

bareyb said:


> Comcast DVR's are extremely basic and quite frankly, frustrating to use once you have gotten used to TiVo. It has no "skip to tick", no "30 second skip or instant replay" It has a considerable lag in response time. You have to use the grid menu system and the picture quality is not as good. There is aboslutely no comparison between the two. The Comcast DVR is as basic as it gets and doesn't even do THAT very well. It's barely a step up from a VCR. I can't WAIT for Comcast to implement the TIvo software in their boxes.


Do you believe that any DVR other than TiVo isn't "basic"?

My take on it:

The Moto DCT6412 running MS SW is a competent DVR. There is no lag in the MS 6412's response time; it's as stable as TiVo. It's very different from TiVo but has a format well suited for viewers who don't timeshift almost everything they watch. The 6412 has 4 FF speeds; the fastest is much faster than TiVo's so "skip to tic" is uneccessary. It has "instant replay" and "skip to live", but AFAIK, no 30 sec. skip. TiVo, OTOH, makes its users play games to get 30 sec. skip which still drops out after any power outage.

The MS EPG is second only to ReplayTV (and Dish?) for ease of viewability, much better than the squinty li'l fonts in either format of TiVo's EPG. TiVo's Series 3 and the Moto 6412 (and Comcast's digital non DVR STB) provide excellent picture quality from digital sources, while TiVo's Series 2's analog pictures tend to have a hint of "grunge" in the background from all but the strongest signals. (Several other analog DVR's have better tuners than TiVo's.)

Many of TiVo's features are actually distractions from its core DVR capabilties. It's as if TiVo is looking for ways to make its service profitable regardless of demand from users other than hardcore upscale geeks and their parents. 

TiVo's specialties are its search engine and networkability but neither capability is required from a DVR. A DVR is merely a TV hard drive recorder. TiVo's early Series 1's record without either TiVo service or an EPG. Even a basic DVR is much more convenient than a VCR but Comcast's 6412 has at least a modest (?) capability of recording both single and series based programs from their schedule and EPG info.

When Comcast implements TiVo SW in the 6412 it will for the first time be possible to compare both DVR formats competitively priced. When TiVo SW is on Comcast's DVR it will probably lose much of its networkability but gain Comcast's considerable selection of VOD services.

Right now Comcast's box is available for $11.95 a month with no maintenance concerns or contract obligations whatsoever. TiVo's Series 3 still costs well over $600 plus either (the equivalent of) $500 for the soon to be gone "Lifetime" option, or $12.95 a month with a three year commitment, or $19.95 a month with a 1 year commitment. Yep; there's no comparison!


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

mattack said:


> What other use does ANY DVR have than watching TV "on a delayed basis"?
> Why would anyone get a DVR if they didn't want to watch on a delayed basis (even if the 'delay' is 15 mins to skip commercials)?
> 
> It's not like a VCR, where most people use(d) them just for playing back rented tapes. (Not me, I had videotaped the vast majority of what I watched from the early '90s up until I got a Tivo.. since then I got another Tivo and a non-Tivo hard drive/DVD-recorder.. right now, I'm using 'chase play' to go through the Rockin' New Years Eve show to see if there are any good musical bits in it..)


A DVR is extremely useful for going back from realtime viewing to re-check something which has just been broadcast such a movie scene, a news story, a game play, or even the details of a commercial offer. Thanks to ReplayTV's hard drive sized recording buffer I was able to follow the whole sequence of 911 on the WTC and Pentagon even though the attacks started before I was up that morning on the West Coast.

TiVo's buffer is so short that it's not worth saving when not actually using it for short term timetripping. However some DVR's now even maintain their recording buffers through channel changes. I connect another type of DVR with a longer recording buffer and then a DVD recorder to TiVo's output. I have three realtime feeds available for realtime viewing at any time.

For me there aren't many TV programs which must be routinely watched delayed. I record perhaps a half dozen a week.

With very few exceptions, no matter how good a TV program may be or how many good ones there are, there will always be a great many more than time to watch them. I choose to select what I watch in realtime and not allow a robotic machine to pre-select them. I only watch a program delayed when there's nothing that interests me in the here-and-now. YMMV!


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

jfh3 said:


> I'm so glad you know my opinion better than I do.


You undoubtedly know your opinion better than anyone. Mine differs. 



bicker said:


> The Motorola 34xx/64xx DVRs provided by Comcast, don't have "skip to tick", which I do miss, but do have "30 second skip" and "instant replay".


How do you get 30 second skip on a 6412?


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## QZ1 (Mar 24, 2003)

Scott F said:


> My Comcast DVR will FF live TV.


Then it must have an integrated time machine.


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## QZ1 (Mar 24, 2003)

From what I have read, the 30 Second Skip is available on all Motorola DVRs except those running the Microsoft Guide.

I have the 6412 with Iguide and the Skip is undocumented, therefore, there is no button for it on the supplied silver Comcast (OEM by OFA) remote. 
One can, however program an unused button for the Skip. 

Some areas do get a different remote that can't be programmed for the Skip, so a universal remote is needed.

Regardless, it is better to get a universal remote anyway, and the Skip is sometimes already in the remote software or it can be learned from the Comcast remote unless it isn't the silver one.

The 15 Second Replay has a button on the silver Comcast remote.

The programming instructions can be found on AVS Forum- HD Recorders- Motorola 6412 or 3412 DVR threads.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Chris Gerhard said:


> I currently use the Comcast Motorolla DCT6412III and have been a long time TiVo user. In terms of software ease of use and reliability, the TiVo is much better. The 6412 does 30 second skip but the FF is slow and cumbersome. The 6412 does have firewire for archiving to my D-VHS VCR so I am thinking of ending my DirecTV subscription but haven't made that decision yet. Based solely on DVR functionality, I don't think it is even close.
> 
> Chris


I assume yours is running iGuide based on your location. Am I right?


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

TiVo Troll said:


> My take on it:
> 
> The Moto DCT6412 running MS SW is a competent DVR. There is no lag in the MS 6412's response time; it's as stable as TiVo.


I think yvovandoorn at http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4726065&&#post4726065 would disagree with you. I think tannibil at http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4708902&highlight=mstv#post4708902 would disagree w/you about the stability part.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

I have both a TiVo and a cable company DVR (actually, I have two of each; an HD & SD of both). We can toss electrons around all day, but if you have used both, the TiVo wins every time, and the *only* big deciding factor in most cases is money.

Another small, but extremely annoying, missing feature in most cableco DVRs is the lack of bookmarks. It is incredibly annoying to go back to a show you had started watching earlier, and have to FF back to your last viewed spot. If you can remember where that was. :down:

Also, when you are watching a recorded show on a cable DVR, typically that means the buffer is inactive. Whereas with a TiVo you can watch a recording, then drop out of it and "catch up" on the news (or whatever was "behind" the recording).

None of these features are killer, or decision makers, or worth a million bucks. But when one adds all the things that a TiVo does better, that's what makes spending $800 on an S3 a gimmie for so many of us.

As always, with different cableco DVRs and versions, YMMV.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

cwerdna said:


> I think yvovandoorn at http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4726065&&#post4726065 would disagree with you. I think tannibil at http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4708902&highlight=mstv#post4708902 would disagree w/you about the stability part.


When anecdotal information is used to document anything from miracle cancer cures to DVR stability anything and everything is possible at the same time.

There are probably 1000+ TiVo users for every poster on these Forums and probably 10,000+ DVR owners for every AVS Forum poster. Everybody's mileage varies. Anything can be true in one set of circumstances while not being true in others!


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

astrohip said:


> I have both a TiVo and a cable company DVR (actually, I have two of each; an HD & SD of both). We can toss electrons around all day, but if you have used both, the TiVo wins every time, and the *only* big deciding factor in most cases is money.
> 
> Another small, but extremely annoying, missing feature in most cableco DVRs is the lack of bookmarks. It is incredibly annoying to go back to a show you had started watching earlier, and have to FF back to your last viewed spot. If you can remember where that was. :down:
> 
> ...


While I appreciate your last sentence, it should be the first sentence. There are way too many generalities in your post and they don't cover all cable DVR's, but it reads that way. And cost isn't the only factor. But then again, in bold and the word being ONLY, I think you meant that to cover all cases. With all due respect, posts like this are very misleading.

You also make it sound like cable DVR's have no place in the marketplace. They do. I've had a TiVo. It was great. But there are also cable DVR's that are fully functional and meet the needs of a marketplace full of people that you are not interested in.



astrohip said:


> ...but if you have used both, the TiVo wins every time, and the *only* big deciding factor in most cases is money.


The TiVo doesn't win every time. 
- Show me a TiVo with a two-hour buffer. 
- Show me a TiVo with a 10-second rewind button. 
- Show me a TiVo with an almost infinitely programmable remote (using macros). 
- And a few months ago, TiVo didn't have a HD-DVR (D* being the exception). 
- Show me a TiVo with a capacity indicator (used-space or free-space indicator)
- Oh, yea, show me a TiVo that for $5.99 per month has no warranty period.



astrohip said:


> Also, when you are watching a recorded show on a cable DVR, typically that means the buffer is inactive.


There you go again. Several of them have buffers, and I've seen some that are as big as two-hours.


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## DeathRider (Dec 30, 2006)

HomieG said:


> While I appreciate your last sentence, it should be the first sentence. There are way too many generalities in your post and they don't cover all cable DVR's, but it reads that way. And cost isn't the only factor. But then again, in bold and the word being ONLY, I think you meant that to cover all cases. With all due respect, posts like this are very misleading.
> 
> You also make it sound like cable DVR's have no place in the marketplace. They do. I've had a TiVo. It was great. But there are also cable DVR's that are fully functional and meet the needs of a marketplace full of people that you are not interested in.
> 
> ...


I would love it if TiVo had a "fuel guage". [Lack of] 10 second rewind doesn't bother me. 2 hour buffer would be nice. Would rather not have the buffer empty when changing channels (I've "accidentally" changed channels one too many times).



> There you go again. Several of them have buffers, and I've seen some that are as big as two-hours.


He didn't say they don't have buffers, he said they were _INACTIVE_ while recording a show.

I was over my brother's houe Thursday watching his DVR I actually manually set the box to NBC. Still, the recorder clipped the begining of "The Office", even though it hadn't changed channels from recording "My Name is Earl" (and it wasn't on the end if MNiE either).
So, where did it go, and why can't I rewiind past the beginning of "Office"? Because the buffer is deactivated.

Unfortunately, my brother will be on his 3rd DVR in almost as many months.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

HomieG said:


> The TiVo doesn't win every time.


I'm not sure I agree with most of the items on your list, except for this one, which actually effectively trumps everything else.


HomieG said:


> - Oh, yea, show me a TiVo that for $5.99 per month has no warranty period.


With that, the two options are pretty comparable; neither better than the other.


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

bicker said:


> I'm not sure I agree with most of the items on your list, except for this one, which actually effectively trumps everything else.With that, the two options are pretty comparable; neither better than the other.


What I meant on the $5.99 per month with no warranty period was that it's essentially an infinite term warranty. Sorry I wasn't more clear in the original post. It's covered so long as one subscribes to it. Does TiVo offer that on their hardware too?


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Absolutely not. The warranty issue is a big one. Rereading my message, I think I see your confusion. The first thing I said, "this one, which actually effectively trumps everything else" referred directly to your comment about the cost and warranty. Together they are more important than all other considerations.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

cwerdna said:


> I think yvovandoorn at http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4726065&&#post4726065 would disagree with you. I think tannibil at http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4708902&highlight=mstv#post4708902 would disagree w/you about the stability part.


Just for the record. I haven't had stability issues as tannabil reports, but have noticed stable repeatable brief stalling glitches when hitting RW the first time, as apparently drove yvovandoorn nuts. But after the first time it doesn't repeat unless the machine has been playing awhile without hitting RW.

Operationally TiVo is as good as DVR's get. However TiVo doesn't always do what I want it to do even if it does what it does very well!

Minor case in point: I intuitively prefer FF or REW commands to be independent of each other instead of TiVo's interrelated approach. Also, I'd rather have an extra fast RW/FF rather than "skip to tic". But these are essentially minor issues.

A more important point is picture quality. Series 3 offers digital picture quality equal to the 6412. However the 6412's non hi-def picture is significantly better than what Series 2 offers from its internal tuner when both are connected to the same coax outlet.

In fact Series 2, when connected to Comcast's DCT 2000 non DVR STB, presents a noticiably better picture than through its own tuner when both are on the same coax. In my area both Comcast boxes use the same EPG (the 2000 without PIP) which is much more legible than either of TiVo's on a conventional TV's screen.

It's fair to compare Comcast's 6412 against Series 2 because Comcast doesn't charge a premium for it. It's what you get when you order a DVR with ANY Comcast digital service (which start at 33.94 for "Family Tier" or $50.25 for "Enhanced Basic"). (Regular analog "basic" is a buck cheaper.)

TiVo's Series 3 or Series 2 or Comcast's 6412 or even the 2000 STB. Some people will pick one, some another. I've got 'em all and, hey, it's just TV!


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## 1999cobra (Nov 10, 2005)

In a nutshell think of it this way - (not knowing how old you are) but ...

If you remember when cell phones first came out and they where black boxes like a small version of a briefcase and the handset was wired into the box and you had to lug it from car to car. Think of that as your current cable DVR box...

Now think of Tivo as your new Iphone or blackberry device... Get the message?


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

bicker said:


> Absolutely not. The warranty issue is a big one. Rereading my message, I think I see your confusion. The first thing I said, "this one, which actually effectively trumps everything else" referred directly to your comment about the cost and warranty. Together they are more important than all other considerations.


Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying.


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