# Join the Stream Team



## dave13077

Tivo just tweeted this. Must be getting close now....

http://sweeps.tivo.com/StreamTeam/


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## mikebaratta

They posted on Facebook as well.


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## windracer

So it's a sweepstakes to win a chance to pre-order?


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## compnurd

LOL i just thought the same thing


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## HeatherA

I entered for my chance to buy??? Weird but whatever...


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## dave13077

I am thinking it is a list for the opportunity (read: send you an email) to pre-order but they will pick one entry and give one away. Not a bad marketing plan.


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## windracer

I don't see anything in the T&C that says they are giving one away, just 600 "winners" get to pre-order. The Facebook "requirement" makes me ineligible anyway. 



> NO PURCHASE OR PAYMENT NECESSARY TO ENTER OR WIN. Sweepstakes begins 8/20/2012 at 9:00:00 AM PT and ends on 8/26/2012 at 11:59:59 PM PT . Open only to current legal residents of the 50 states of the United States and D.C. who are the age of majority in their respective jurisdiction at the time of entry and are a fan of the TiVo page on Facebook (www.facebook.com/tivo) at the time of entry. Void where prohibited. Limit 1 entry per natural person/email address. *600 winners will be selected.* To enter and for Official Rules visit www.facebook.com/tivo.
> 
> *TiVo Premiere DVR and service subscription required and sold separately. MoCA or Ethernet connection required. iPad, iPhone, or iPod touch running iOS5 or later required and sold separately. Not all programs may be transferred using TiVo Stream due to the use of copy protection mechanisms permitted under the FCC's encoding rules. Some shows cannot be transferred due to the copy protection assigned them by the program provider. These shows usually are marked with a red circle-slash icon. (47 C.F.R. 76.1904)
> 
> If you have any questions, please contact TiVo Customer Support at 1-877-367-8486. 2160 Gold Street, Alviso, CA 95002-2160.
> 
> ©2012 TiVo Inc. All rights reserved. TiVo and the TiVo logo are trademarks or registered trademarks of TiVo Inc. or its subsidiaries worldwide. iPad, iPhone, and iPod touch are registered trademarks of Apple Inc. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. Please feel free to review our Privacy Policy.


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## NYHeel

windracer said:


> I don't see anything in the T&C that says they are giving one away, just 600 "winners" get to pre-order. The Facebook "requirement" makes me ineligible anyway.


Yep, the Facebook thing makes me ineligble too. Oh well.


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## dave13077

windracer said:


> I don't see anything in the T&C that says they are giving one away, just 600 "winners" get to pre-order. The Facebook "requirement" makes me ineligible anyway.


Well that sucks.... It let me enter without asking about the like on Facebook. I don't have a Facebook account so I don't know what will happen if I am "chosen".

And BTW.. They are having a contest that I have to "win" to buy one of their products. Who do they think they are Apple??


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## mulscully

Not that interested in the stream thing.. I am more Interested in the extender


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## magnus

dave13077 said:


> Well that sucks.... It let me enter without asking about the like on Facebook. I don't have a Facebook account so I don't know what will happen if I am "chosen".
> 
> And BTW.. They are having a contest that I have to "win" to buy one of their products. Who do they think they are Apple??


Maybe they will be Apple soon.


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## Krellion

IOS device-only kills it for me.


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## ScubaCat

magnus said:


> Maybe they will be Apple soon.


Oooo! Apple + TiVo! That would be a match made in heaven.:up:


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## h2oskierc

Krellion said:


> IOS device-only....


Say it isn't so...


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## aaronwt

The contest is only a week long. Maybe next week they will make an announcement about the price?


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## morac

> NO PURCHASE OR PAYMENT NECESSARY TO ENTER OR WIN


It's only necessary after you win.


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## aaronwt

Krellion said:


> IOS device-only kills it for me.


WTF!! iOS only? Why would I have an Apple device?


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## sbiller

aaronwt said:


> WTF!! iOS only? Why would I have an Apple device?


I'm sure the Android phone and tablet apps will be updated to support the Stream but not on launch.


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## muzzymate

morac said:


> It's only necessary after you win.


Ha ha! I wish they would have released more details on the device before announcing the pre-order "sweepstakes". Biggest unanswered question is how much will this device cost? Since I have Time Warner that CCx02s everything, it limits greatly what I can take outside my home network.


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## morac

muzzymate said:


> Ha ha! I wish they would have released more details on the device before announcing the pre-order "sweepstakes". Biggest unanswered question is how much will this device cost? Since I have Time Warner that CCx02s everything, it limits greatly what I can take outside my home network.


It does say to contact TiVo Customer Support if you have any questions. It's highly unlikely they'll have any idea what the price is going to be, but you could try anyway.

As far as I can tell, the contest entry is not a contract to buy though, so you can always back out if you "win" and the price is too high.


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## djwilso

Win a chance to pre-order? Wow, the level of lameness here is... astounding.


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## Rebate_King

This is truly silly. A chance to "win" a chance to preorder something to buy.

At least the one good thing about this is that it looks like we are getting very close to the stream being available for purchase. Maybe 30 days or less?


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## drebbe

Rebate_King said:


> This is truly silly. A chance to "win" a chance to preorder something to buy.
> 
> At least the one good thing about this is that it looks like we are getting very close to the stream being available for purchase. Maybe 30 days or less?


Oppo essentially did the same thing with their early acceptance program for the BDP-83 blu-ray player and Ceton is doing now for their new echo, but I agree calling it a sweepstakes is kind of silly when it's really just a paid beta.


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## crxssi

Krellion said:


> IOS device-only kills it for me.


+1

No Android = no sale.


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## crxssi

sbiller said:


> I'm sure the Android phone and tablet apps will be updated to support the Stream but not on launch.


Yeah, what, a year later?

I love how the main headline announcement is worded: "Stream shows from your TiVo® Premiere DVR to your mobile devices at home or wirelessly transfer shows for on-the-go entertainment"

This is misleading. My Linux netbook is mobile- no support. My Xoom Android tablet is mobile- no support. My Android phone- no support. People with MacOS or MS-Windows laptops- also no support. All of those are "mobile devices".

So it should be worded ".... to a few mobile devices, but only if they are Apple and laptops/notebooks excluded...".


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## innocentfreak

I wonder if it will work with the TiVo Desktop, doubt it though. If so that might solve the solution of being able to use it with your laptops. Then again if someone like wmcbrine or moyekj can get a workaround it sounds like it would be a nice solution for offloading already compressed content.


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## sbiller

innocentfreak said:


> I wonder if it will work with the TiVo Desktop, doubt it though. If so that might solve the solution of being able to use it with your laptops. Then again if someone like wmcbrine or moyekj can get a workaround it sounds like it would be a nice solution for offloading already compressed content.


I think you'll see Android support before any updates to desktop. I could envision a new metro app for Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 which would be the replacement to TiVo Desktop. I will go out on the limb and say we'll see the Android update to support the Stream by the end of the year.


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## innocentfreak

sbiller said:


> I think you'll see Android support before any updates to desktop. I could envision a new metro app for Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 which would be the replacement to TiVo Desktop. I will go out on the limb and say we'll see the Android update to support the Stream by the end of the year.


Well as long as someone can do like they did with the iPad Discovery, then we wouldn't need a new TiVo Desktop.

I would say that is probably right though I could see it next year also. I don't remember how long it took for the Android app to come out compared to the IOS apps or how often the updates come after the IOS updates.

I do think it would be smart to work on a Metro app with the rumors of the cheap Microsoft tablet.


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## morac

innocentfreak said:


> I would say that is probably right though I could see it next year also. I don't remember how long it took for the Android app to come out compared to the IOS apps or how often the updates come after the IOS updates.


The android app, still doesn't have all the features that the iOS app does. A friend of mine has a Premiere and I was showing him the iOS app in away mode, where I can look at My Shows and even delete one (not sure I'd ever want to, but I can). He has an Android phone so I said he could do the same thing. I was misinformed apparently since he couldn't see his My Shows in away mode (it looked like what a Series 3 looks like in the iOS app). It told him to connect to his local network. I thought maybe he had an old version, but he checked and he had the latest version.

So either his Premiere isn't working correctly or the Android app doesn't have those features in away mode.


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## Test

Ahhhhh I got fooled. You should update the OP with the fact that it's a sweepstakes for the chance to win a chance to pre-order


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## rainwater

I think this might be the worst worded sweepstakes TiVo has ever created.


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## crxssi

innocentfreak said:


> I wonder if it will work with the TiVo Desktop, doubt it though. If so that might solve the solution of being able to use it with your laptops.


Not when your laptops run Linux, it doesn't. But I could make due with at least a decent Android app.


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## crxssi

innocentfreak said:


> I do think it would be smart to work on a Metro app with the rumors of the cheap Microsoft tablet.


The rumors are the exact opposite- they are that Microsoft doesn't have a chance in hell on the cheap tablet market and they are going for the "high end" (think $800+ tablets) only at this point.


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## innocentfreak

crxssi said:


> Not when your laptops run Linux, it doesn't. But I could make due with at least a decent Android app.


So you are saying you can't use KMTTG? Since if they get it working with TiVo Desktop, KMTTG should be able to incorporate it.


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## bradleys

crxssi said:


> The rumors are the exact opposite- they are that Microsoft doesn't have a chance in hell on the cheap tablet market and they are going for the "high end" (think $800+ tablets) only at this point.


Surface RT will run ~ $400 and the Pro will be ~ $800. Lenovo should have an RT model starting at $300.

I also hope that a Metro App is in the future... It should be now that Android is going to be pushed out of the market!  ( just teasing you... )

But all kidding aside, I will replace my iPad with a Surface as soon as I can.


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## seattlewendell

bradleys said:


> Surface RT will run ~ $400 and the Pro will be ~ $800. Lenovo should have an RT model starting at $300.
> 
> I also hope that a Metro App is in the future... It should be now that Android is going to be pushed out of the market!  ( just teasing you... )
> 
> But all kidding aside, I will replace my iPad with a Surface as soon as I can.


There's no such thing as a "metro app". Metro is a design style that uses text instead of icons and graphics. Microsoft is officially not even using the term anymore and it never applied to apps.
Second Bradley is correct. The RT will not cost ~$400 as you claim. It's closer to ~$600. And the Lenovo $300 tablet is 7". That's more money than the Nook, the Fire, and the Galaxy 7". You think you have to wait long for Androids apps? You'll be waiting until the Apocalypse for W8 apps.


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## seattlewendell

They should release a new box with this built in as well as the stand alone. I didn't want to believe it at first but the more companies like TiVo stumble around in this space the more I've come to believe that the Apple Television is real. Why would Apple stay out of this space when the compititon is so inept.


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## BlackBetty

Seattle, word is that the next box (Series 5) out in 2013 will have this built into the box.


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## bradleys

seattlewendell said:


> There's no such thing as a "metro app". Metro is a design style that uses text instead of icons and graphics. Microsoft is officially not even using the term anymore and it never applied to apps.
> Second Bradley is correct. The RT will not cost ~$400 as you claim. It's closer to ~$600. And the Lenovo $300 tablet is 7". That's more money than the Nook, the Fire, and the Galaxy 7". You think you have to wait long for Androids apps? You'll be waiting until the Apocalypse for W8 apps.


Yes, I realize that Microsoft is not using the Metro term any longer and yes I also realize that it was a reference to style. But they often used the term "Metro Style Apps" to reference the new ecosystem. We can call them Windows 8 style apps if that makes you feel better...

What we know about cost is that the MS Surface RT version will be available in 32gb and 64gb versions and that it will be competitive with comparable tablets (i.e. the ipad)

The wifi only 32gb new ipad retails for $599 and the 64gb version retails for $699... Based on specs alone, the Windows tablet could easily go with those prices and be very worth the money - I suspect they will step down and you will see the 32gb retail at $499 and the 64gb retail at $599. Some rumors have the price even lower. (the $200 price is bogus and not even worth discussing)

As for availability of apps... Well, that is going to depend on market share. If the Windows 8 product gains a significant market share, then apps will be written for it - if not they will not be.

That said - within a year, every PC sold will come with Windows 8 pre-installed and with Android tablets foundering, every OEM manufacturer is looking for a product that is going to be competitive in the market.

I do believe that Windows 8 tablets will very quickly outpace Android tablets and within 18 months be very competitive with the IOS ecosystem. Once that happens - smart devs will obviously follow the money.

Note: Rumor has it that Lonovo will be selling a $300 Windows 8 RT tablet. Nothing I have read references size, so it may or may not be a 7" version. Until a product is officially announced it is what it is... A Rumor.


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## Fofer

Win a chance to pre-order? Uhhhhhh okaaayyy


And this thing still doesn't have an MSRP?


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## bradleys

I am glad everyone hates this idea! Less entries improve my chances of getting one early!


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## BigJimOutlaw

There's no language indicating a pre-order means they get it earlier. That's why it's kind of silly.

With 600 winners, I'm guessing a darn good percentage of entrants will win.


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## shwru980r

I can already stream most of the programming I record on my Tivo to a mobile device for free off the internet anyway. Maybe if I was going somewhere without internet access and wanted to watch a show on a mobile device, I would download from the streamer, but I can't remember ever needing to do that.


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## crxssi

bradleys said:


> with Android tablets foundering, every OEM manufacturer is looking for a product that is going to be competitive in the market.


Floundering? Android tablets have only been on the market for about 1.5 years. The number of choices are really heating up, the Fire was a success, and the Nexus 7 is already a big hit and it is barely out the door. Android already DOMINATES the smart phone market, blowing Apple away and MS is nowhere in that market. Android device activations are now ONE MILLION PER DAY! It will take a while for Android tablets to really make an impact on Apple tablets, but it is bound to happen. Most people want a similar phone/tablet experience and there is just a HUGE potential market for Android tablets to mate with peoples' Android phones.



> I do believe that Windows 8 tablets will very quickly outpace Android tablets


Possibly. But Android tablets have a 1.5 year head start, and over *500,000* available applications RIGHT NOW and still growing quickly (by more than 20,000 apps a month). And with the $200 Nexus 7, I think you might be surprised what happens over this Christmas season...



> and within 18 months be very competitive with the IOS ecosystem.


I think that is overly optimistic. But should be an interesting saga.


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## mattack

shwru980r said:


> I can already stream most of the programming I record on my Tivo to a mobile device for free off the internet anyway.


How, with a slingbox? That wasn't free if so.


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## bradleys

crxssi said:


> Floundering?


 I suspected you might disagree with me...

First, let's not confuse phones with tablets. Android is projected to sell 37.9 million tablets this year with a third of those being the cheaper / smaller Fire and Nexus units. That is compared to Apples 73 million premium units.

I do think that the small / cheap devices will always have a market. I purchased a Kindle Fire for my 10 yo daughter and it is OK... Similarly, I am sure the Nexus 7 is OK as well - for reading books or as a toy for a child.

Personally, I was an early iPad adopter and I don't care how many apps it has, it falls short for my needs... Sure it browses the Internet and lets me read email or consume other content. But for real work? I need something more.

I will purchase the pro version, but even the RT will have Microsoft office and a real file system and connect to my corporate environment... Apps will come - but on day one I can use Microsoft Excel optimized for touch!

I think Windows 8 will struggle on the standard desktop, but on a tablet it shines!

Will it kill the premium Android tablet? After using it for the last couple of months, I think it will. But only time will tell.

As for the Stream - TiVo will follow the users. Apple gives the functionality cache, and is great for marketing. Android should be a fast follower.

If windows 8 has a positive adoption - then we will see an app. But remember, world wide - 300 million PC's will be sold in 2013 and that is a lot of Windows 8 devices!

I think the apps will come.


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## crxssi

bradleys said:


> I do think that the small / cheap devices will always have a market. I purchased a Kindle Fire for my 10 yo daughter and it is OK... Similarly, I am sure the Nexus 7 is OK as well - for reading books or as a toy for a child.


? You have obviously never used a Nexus 7, which is a quad-core 1.2Ghz (plus 5th power-saving core) Tegra 3 chipset with Nvidia graphics, high-res screen, NFC, and 1GB of fast RAM. It is easily as powerful as an iPad (although not as large, or as much storage, yet twice the memory and most of the same features, except no rear camera) for lower than half the price.



> Personally, I was an early iPad adopter and I don't care how many apps it has, it falls short for my needs... Sure it browses the Internet and lets me read email or consume other content. But for real work? I need something more.


Tablets are certainly not for everyone or for all tasks. But I know plenty of people that do "real work" on both Android and Apple tablets. (Of course, I know far, far more that just use them casually).



> I will purchase the pro version, but even the RT will have Microsoft office and a real file system and connect to my corporate environment... Apps will come - but on day one I can use Microsoft Excel optimized for touch!


There are several just-as-powerful and compatible spreadsheets (and office suites) for Android (I know, I have two of them). And there is already a "real" filesystem, connectivity to cloud storage, nfs clients, scp, Exchange clients. etc. I am not saying it is the right fit for you, but I *am* saying that there is nothing magic or overly compelling for an MS-Windows tablet. Just about anything you can imagine doing on an MS-Windows tablet has already been done under Android and/or iOS.


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## bradleys

crxssi said:


> ? You have obviously never used a Nexus 7, which is a quad-core 1.2Ghz (plus 5th power-saving core) Tegra 3 chipset with Nvidia graphics, high-res screen, NFC, and 1GB of fast RAM. It is easily as powerful as an iPad (although not as large, or as much storage, yet twice the memory and most of the same features, except no rear camera) for lower than half the price.
> 
> Tablets are certainly not for everyone or for all tasks. But I know plenty of people that do "real work" on both Android and Apple tablets. (Of course, I know far, far more that just use them casually).
> 
> There are several just-as-powerful and compatible spreadsheets (and office suites) for Android (I know, I have two of them). And there is already a "real" filesystem, connectivity to cloud storage, nfs clients, scp, Exchange clients. etc. I am not saying it is the right fit for you, but I *am* saying that there is nothing magic or overly compelling for an MS-Windows tablet. Just about anything you can imagine doing on an MS-Windows tablet has already been done under Android and/or iOS.


If the Phone OS's are so powerful and functional, when should we expect to see them on full computers? I realize I am being a little snarky - but saying that these devices are anything but consumption devices is a joke.

I probably own every IOS productivity app in the library - seriously... But they are all garbage. You want to create, collaborate and share real content (PowerPoint, Excel, Word) you need a real computer. IOS CAN'T EVEN SHOW JPEG 2000!!!! Just shows up blank on PDF's. Try sitting in a meeting where half your presentation is full of blank pages! I have.

Take a look at the office 2013 keynote - try doing that on one of these current phone OS's!

CNET Review - [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZbsULHdm4I&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/media]

RT devices will come with the student version of office pre-installed.

I currently carry both a laptop and a tablet when I travel... Give me one device!


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## morac

bradleys said:


> If the Phone OS's are so powerful and functional, when should we expect to see them on full computers? I realize I am being a little snarky - but saying that these devices are anything but consumption devices is a joke.


One could say that the latest version of OS X and Windows 8 are very much based on mobile OS's. 

As for using only a tablet, it can be done, though not without a Bluetooth keyboard and a slight learning curve. The biggest issue is tablet screens aren't large enough for running multiple applications in cascaded windows (my widescreen monitor at work, is barely large enough for that) which requires switching between apps and many things, like programming, aren't feasible on a tablet, but for many tasks a tablet works fine, especially the 10" ones. I typed this entire message on my iPad 2 (no dictation for me).

Speaking of, there will almost certainly be an iPad mini coming out soon, as well as a larger screen iPhone, so I don't think Microsoft (or Android) is a sure bet for winning the tablet or phone markets. Oh and I know plenty of people who have Android phones and iPads. Not sure why, but that's what they do.


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## bradleys

morac said:


> One could say that the latest version of OS X and Windows 8 are very much based on mobile OS's.


I think both Microsoft and Apple would disagree with you. 

Is office a differentiator for Microsoft tablets? For me it is, but only time will tell how it will translate into actual sales.

As for actual usage, watch some of the YouTube reviews and I think you can get a feel for usability.

Keynote PowerPoint / Outlook / OneNote: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si43cs_deXE&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/media]

Cascading windows? The Windows 8 style is a different aproach...


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## rainwater

So this thread has been ruined...


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## bradleys

Yeah sorry about that... Since I broke it, let me try to bring it back!

I think the sweepstakes is a pretty silly event. I get what TiVo is trying to do, they want to deploy a limited number of devices as a beta - that is fine. They also want to use the event to create a social media buzz - i think that is a fail.

But I do want a TiVo transcoder and would love to be in the Beta group, so I registered just the same.

While they are initially testing it on the IOS platform, I suspect that an android app is in development and _should_ be available with the general release. If not, big fail.

I do hope that TiVo creates a path to offload content to a PC. A lot like can already be done using TiVo desktop.

How is that! Sorry, between a few after work drinks and my passion for the new W8 tablet form factor - I drug this thread way off topic. Oh and an opportunity to debate CRXSSI on a topic that I know we are both passionate about was too good to pass up! Even though I did intentionally bait him! Sorry dude!


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## Ultiman

I don't quite get the appeal of the stream. I'd rather just have an extender (ala AppleTV/ROKU app) that can wirelessly stream my shows stored on the Tivo to a different TV. 

Maybe I'm missing how this can already be done?


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## bradleys

Ultiman said:


> I don't quite get the appeal of the stream. I'd rather just have an extender (ala AppleTV/ROKU app) that can wirelessly stream my shows stored on the Tivo to a different TV.
> 
> Maybe I'm missing how this can already be done?


That is really the purpose of the TiVo Mini.

The *TiVo Stream *allows you to stream content from your TiVo to a mobile device (currently limited to in network) and allows you to offload (sideload) content to watch remotely on mobile devices.

The *TiVo Mini *is an extender that will attach to another TV in your home and borrow a tuner from an existing 4 tuner Premier (current limitation). This will allow you to operate the Mini just like another TiVo!


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## Dan203

I'm looking forward to the Stream. I have a SlingBox and bought the SlinBox app so I could watch TV on my iPad while I'm going to sleep. (wife wont allow real TV in bedroom) However I discovered shortly after buying the $30 app that my SlingBox is broken and will only stream for a few minutes before erroring out. (common problem, something to do with bad capacitors) Rather then give sling any more of my money I'm holding out for the Stream instead. For my purposes it's perfect. 

Dan


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## crxssi

bradleys said:


> If the Phone OS's are so powerful and functional, when should we expect to see them on full computers? I realize I am being a little snarky - but saying that these devices are anything but consumption devices is a joke.


Android already is on "full computers"- in it's parent form called Linux. And Google already makes ChromeOS netbooks, which is essentially Android.


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## smbaker

dave13077 said:


> Well that sucks.... It let me enter without asking about the like on Facebook. I don't have a Facebook account so I don't know what will happen if I am "chosen".


As nothing seemed to verify my facebook account or lack of facebook account, I signed up anyway. If necessary, I'll friend Tivo if/when I'm chosen.

Maybe the originally intended this to be a facebook-based promotion?


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## crxssi

bradleys said:


> How is that! Sorry, between a few after work drinks and my passion for the new W8 tablet form factor - I drug this thread way off topic. Oh and an opportunity to debate CRXSSI on a topic that I know we are both passionate about was too good to pass up! Even though I did intentionally bait him! Sorry dude!


Eh, thread drift is pretty normal on just about any forum.

I am still very interested in the TiVo Stream device as it connects to the TiVo Mini (as long as there are NO FEES) and Android access later would be a great bonus.


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## Dan203

crxssi said:


> Android already is on "full computers"- in it's parent form called Linux. And Google already makes ChromeOS netbooks, which is essentially Android.


Chrome OS is an offshoot but it's not actually Android. And Android is based on Linux, but it's not Linux. In reality there are no desktop PCs running Android.

By contrast tablets running Windows 8 will be running the exact same OS that you run on your desktop. RT is a little different, but the x86 tablets will basically be netbooks with touch screens instead of keyboards. You'll probably even be able to hack them and install Linux instead.

Dan


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## bradleys

Dan203 said:


> You'll probably even be able to hack them and install Linux instead.
> 
> Dan


I predict that will happen about 10 minutes after they go on sale! 



> the x86 tablets will basically be netbooks with touch screens


The surface pro will be running an i5 Ivy Bridge CPU (hopefully the Haswell chip set) with every port known to man including a USB3.0 port. I am not sure I would call it a Netbook, those are better specs then my "aging" laptop...

Lots of questions though - price, battery, heat, etc...

I really do not "want" an RT tablet, but I may end up purchasing one just to see how it handles the more complex software like MS Office.


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## bradleys

smbaker said:


> As nothing seemed to verify my facebook account or lack of facebook account, I signed up anyway. If necessary, I'll friend Tivo if/when I'm chosen.
> 
> Maybe the originally intended this to be a facebook-based promotion?


I did get an email confirming my registration in the sweepstakes!


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## Fofer

bradleys said:


> I did get an email confirming my registration in the sweepstakes!


Congrats! 

You may be the lucky winner of a chance to buy a pre-release beta of this unfinished product!  :up:


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## smbaker

bradleys said:


> I did get an email confirming my registration in the sweepstakes!


Me too!



Fofer said:


> You may be the lucky winner of a chance to buy a pre-release beta of this unfinished product!


Can it be any worse than the Tivo Premiere? I'm still waiting for the damn HDUI to be finished, and still experiencing frequent bugs.


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## bradleys

Fofer said:


> Congrats!
> 
> You may be the lucky winner of a chance to buy a pre-release beta of this unfinished product!  :up:


Awesome!


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## brentil

I don't know why you all are so fussy about this, ok so yeah it's not all free but you get a chance to get one before anyone else. If it's like any other TiVo Hardware [redacted] program if there are problems related at the hardware level they replace it for free and it it dies they typically replace it for free too.


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## magnus

Ultiman said:


> I don't quite get the appeal of the stream. I'd rather just have an extender (ala AppleTV/ROKU app) that can wirelessly stream my shows stored on the Tivo to a different TV.
> 
> Maybe I'm missing how this can already be done?


+1 I have a Roku... I just need for Tivo to create an app for it that will let me watch my shows on it.


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## sbiller

magnus said:


> +1 I have a Roku... I just need for Tivo to create an app for it that will let me watch my shows on it.


The Roku would have trouble decoding the MPEG-2 videos especially over WiFi. I do see the possibility of a Roku app that would be able to receive video from the Stream or the built-in transcoding of the Pace XG1 or next generation series 5 boxes.


----------



## Fofer

sbiller said:


> I do see the possibility of a Roku app that would be able to receive video from the Stream or the built-in transcoding of the Pace XG1 or next generation series 5 boxes.


I don't. TiVo doesn't work well with other companies, and that kind of collaboration could very well lead to them selling less TiVo-branded hardware. Why in the world would they work with Roku?


----------



## Dan203

Fofer said:


> I don't. TiVo doesn't work well with other companies, and that kind of collaboration could very well lead to them selling less TiVo-branded hardware. Why in the world would they work with Roku?


Not if it's designed to work with the transcoder box. In that case the Roku would really just be replacing the iPad for streaming on the local network.

Although they may prefer you buy an IP-STB for streaming directly to TVs.

Dan


----------



## Fofer

Dan203 said:


> Although they may prefer you buy an IP-STB for streaming directly to TVs.


Indeed.

It's now being called the "TiVo Mini."

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-08/upcoming-tivo-ip-stb-christened-mini/


----------



## moedaman

Ultiman said:


> I don't quite get the appeal of the stream. I'd rather just have an extender (ala AppleTV/ROKU app) that can wirelessly stream my shows stored on the Tivo to a different TV.
> 
> Maybe I'm missing how this can already be done?


Maybe. Transfer your Tivo recordings to a pc. Link the folder to Plex Server and then stream. That might work.


----------



## Rebate_King

Still no pricing on this new box. Come on already.

For those that win the chance to pre-order, should they just send TiVo a blank check?


----------



## Fofer

I am bummed that I can't enter twice, to possibly win the lucky chance to be entered onto the wait list in order to maybe be chosen as a potential buyer to pre-order this product still-in-beta!


----------



## smbaker

Fofer said:


> I am bummed that I can't enter twice, to possibly win the lucky chance to be entered onto the wait list in order to maybe be chosen as a potential buyer to pre-order this product still-in-beta!


Well, you could spend the day creating gmail or hotmail addresses...

Even though is says there will be a limited number of "winners", I wonder if we'll all "win" and be given a chance to spend our money.


----------



## Fofer

"Limit 1 entry per natural person/email address" confused me.


----------



## jcthorne

Well, I signed up. was figuring on buying one anyway just to play with. Hope to make it useful at some point. I know when released, like most Tivo products, there will be flaws that make it less than useful. Supporting IOS only is one of them and of no use to me. However, many other devices can play the very same content as any idevice.


----------



## brentil

EDIT - wrong thread...


----------



## David Platt

brentil said:


> I'm not sure why people keep throwing around iOS support only comments, this device has nothing to do with sending content to mobile devices, that's the TiVo Stream which has not been released yet either. The TiVo Mini is like a Windows Media Center Extender, it lets you stream your content to other devices without having a whole other system there.


This thread is all about a contest to win a chance to pre-order a TiVo Stream.


----------



## brentil

David Platt said:


> This thread is all about a contest to win a chance to pre-order a TiVo Stream.


Derp my bad, I clicked on the wrong thread in my subscriptions list and thought I was in the Mini thread.


----------



## Ultiman

moedaman said:


> Maybe. Transfer your Tivo recordings to a pc. Link the folder to Plex Server and then stream. That might work.


I suppose this might work, but I would prefer a more elegant solution - ideally AppleTV/Roku app that sees my Tivo via the network. One can dream...


----------



## smbaker

Fofer said:


> "Limit 1 entry per natural person/email address" confused me.


You expect them to match natural persons to email addresses? 

I suppose it could be inconvenient if you won more than once.


----------



## BlackBetty

"sweepstakes" ends today. I wonder if that means we will hear something this week about "winners" and pricing.


----------



## smbaker

BlackBetty said:


> "sweepstakes" ends today. I wonder if that means we will hear something this week about "winners" and pricing.


I've been waiting my whole life to win a sweepstakes. I have a good feeling about this one.

I wonder what happens if they notify all 600 "winners", and the price point is too high, and only 3-4 of them choose to win buy their prize?


----------



## jcthorne

Personally, since its a 'beta' unit, I am somewhat hopeful the pricing for the 'winners' will be significantly below retail to aid in the testing......


----------



## aaronwt

smbaker said:


> I've been waiting my whole life to win a sweepstakes. I have a good feeling about this one.
> 
> I wonder what happens if they notify all 600 "winners", and the price point is too high, and only 3-4 of them choose to win buy their prize?


What about those of use that signed up that don't have an Apple device?


----------



## bradleys

jcthorne said:


> Personally, since its a 'beta' unit, I am somewhat hopeful the pricing for the 'winners' will be significantly below retail to aid in the testing......


I think that is wishful thinking... We discussed this with the Ceton unit - no discount. By the time general availability comes around I would expect to see a Holiday sale, so you may end up paying a premium price for the Beta version.


----------



## bradleys

aaronwt said:


> What about those of use that signed up that don't have an Apple device?


Well, TiVo is going to want feedback on the Beta unit. I suspect they will gather that feedback using both usage logs as well as user feedback.

It is going to be very hard for someone to use the unit if they do not have an IOS device to pair it with.

If you are selected, I suppose you could lie and get an early version anyway - but that just keep someone else from providing the usage analytics that TiVo is looking for.


----------



## Rebate_King

So the contest ended last night. Did anyone "win"?


----------



## Fofer

Worst "contest" ever. Really, just a way to harvest our email addresses so they can try to sell us these boxes when they come out. In 2014? LOL


----------



## smbaker

Rebate_King said:


> So the contest ended last night. Did anyone "win"?


An advertisement for the 'Premiere 4' showed up in my inbox this morning, but nothing about sweepstakes or streamers.


----------



## aaronwt

Fofer said:


> Worst "contest" ever. Really, just a way to harvest our email addresses so they can try to sell us these boxes when they come out. In 2014? LOL


They probably already have the email addressess from the people that will sign up to test the product. They are already TiVo owners.


----------



## sbiller

I've been told that TiVo will announce the contest winners tomorrow.


----------



## Dan203

bradleys said:


> Well, TiVo is going to want feedback on the Beta unit. I suspect they will gather that feedback using both usage logs as well as user feedback.
> 
> It is going to be very hard for someone to use the unit if they do not have an IOS device to pair it with.


I doubt there is much testing to be done on the device itself. In fact I doubt the device itself even has a UI to interact with. It's basically just a dumb box that sits on your network and preforms a transcode when the requesting device does not support the native MPEG-2 format.

The only thing that might be "beta" is the iOS app, and even then I doubt TiVo would release the product without going through a real private beta first, so I don't think they're expecting any feedback from the "winners" of this sweepstake.

Dan


----------



## sbiller

Dan203 said:


> I doubt there is much testing to be done on the device itself. In fact I doubt the device itself even has a UI to interact with. It's basically just a dumb box that sits on your network and preforms a transcode when the requesting device does not support the native MPEG-2 format.
> 
> The only thing that might be "beta" is the iOS app, and even then I doubt TiVo would release the product without going through a real private beta first, so I don't think they're expecting any feedback from the "winners" of this sweepstake.
> 
> Dan


I agree completely. I think this offer is actually the opportunity for a user to receive the Stream box at their home the same day and date the Stream becomes available on tivo.com. Any beta testing that was done internally by TiVo will have been complete at that point.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

The buzz is that winners get their Streams when Tivo begins taking orders from everybody else. So I guess the benefit would only be a few days, unless they take pre-orders from the masses too.

Edit: yeah, what Sam said.  So maybe that double-confirms it.

So I wouldn't take the "beta" term too literally... At least no moreso than other new products with day 1 issues.


----------



## Rebate_King

I'm just looking forward to hearing about pricing. Very curious about that.


----------



## Dan203

Wild guess... ~$100 for the Stream. If it's over $150 I'm going to reconsider buying even if I "win".

Dan


----------



## sbiller

Dan203 said:


> Wild guess... ~$100 for the Stream. If it's over $150 I'm going to reconsider buying even if I "win".
> 
> Dan


My wild guess is $99 for the Stream. Sounds like we might need a poll!


----------



## morac

Dan203 said:


> The only thing that might be "beta" is the iOS app, and even then I doubt TiVo would release the product without going through a real private beta first, so I don't think they're expecting any feedback from the "winners" of this sweepstake.


It would be impossible for TiVo to release a beta iOS app to 600 "winners" as Apple restricts test releases of apps to a maximum of 100 devices (devices, not users).


----------



## brentil

Well, any of you who win and don't want it, I'll gladly take your spot.


----------



## Test

sbiller said:


> My wild guess is $99 for the Stream. Sounds like we might need a poll!


I'd vote $99. Can't be more than that, just can't


----------



## morac

sbiller said:


> My wild guess is $99 for the Stream. Sounds like we might need a poll!


The most expensive Roku 2 is $99 and that can do considerable more than what this Stream will be able to do. Granted though transcoding on the fly isn't one of them, but I'm betting the TiVo Stream doesn't come with a free copy of Angry Birds. 

A product which can stream from any device with video out to outside the home, the Slingbox Solo, is currently going for $129 on Amazon (though it requires another $30 for the iOS app).

If the Stream comes out and costs the same or more than a Slingbox, it's dead on arrival, so I'd say $99 max. I'm hoping it's closer to $79, similar to what the Slide originally cost.


----------



## bradleys

- Slingbox SOLO (no HD) has a "sale" price on Amazon for $129.00 ($49 discount)
- Slingbox HD Pro has a "sale" price of $254.97 on Amazon for ($43.03 discount).

- The SlingPlayer app is $29.99 in the appstore...

So you are @ a minimum cost of $160

I expect to see the TiVo stream sell for $149.99 and the IOS software will remain free.



> I'm hoping it's closer to $79, similar to what the Slide originally cost.


I am betting that is pretty close to the hardware / manufacturing costs for this device. At that cost TiVo makes no profit at all. TiVo does not have Foxcon and 100 million units a year to spread profits accross. They need to spread R&D, part costs and manufacturing accross maybe 10 thousand units - tops.

Your pricing is laughable in the real world. And frankly if only a company the size of Apple can deliver products in this new tech world - this is going to get pretty boring pretty quickly.


----------



## smbaker

bradleys said:


> I expect to see the TiVo stream sell for $149.99 and the IOS solftware will remain free.


My guess would be the ~ $150 price point as well. I think there's going to be some people in the < $100 crowd that will be disappointed.

People need to keep in mind this thing isn't a roku. I'm not sure why it's being compared to a roku.


----------



## Fofer

morac said:


> It would be impossible for TiVo to release a beta iOS app to 600 "winners" as Apple restricts test releases of apps to a maximum of 100 devices (devices, not users).


I'm guessing/hoping it's going to be using the same app we already have from TiVo on our iPads, for consistent and elegant UI. Please, don't give us a whole separate app! The current one is fine!

Maybe they'll roll the functionality into the release version, considering it'll only work with the TiVo Stream hardware installed, what's the harm?


----------



## Dan203

Fofer said:


> I'm guessing/hoping it's going to be using the same app we already have from TiVo on our iPads, for consistent and elegant UI. Please, don't give us a whole separate app! The current one is fine!
> 
> Maybe they'll roll the functionality into the release version, considering it'll only work with the TiVo Stream hardware installed, what's the harm?


Based on what was shown at that cable show a few months ago that's exactly what they plan to do. The playback and side loading functionality will be rolled right into the main iOS app.

Dan


----------



## morac

bradleys said:


> I am betting that is pretty close to the hardware / manufacturing costs for this device. At that cost TiVo makes no profit at all. TiVo does not have Foxcon and 100 million units a year to spread profits accross. They need to spread R&D, part costs and manufacturing accross maybe 10 thousand units - tops.
> 
> Your pricing is laughable in the real world. And frankly if only a company the size of Apple can deliver products in this new tech world - this is going to get pretty boring pretty quickly.


I'm not comparing Apple to TiVo, which isn't a fair comparison because of how huge Apple is. I'm comparing TiVo to relatively small companies which are comparable in size to TiVo (or smaller) .

The Slingbox has hardware in it that a Stream would not require, namely an analog to digital converter and input jacks. Any time you have A2D or D2A hardware, you greatly increase the price of the hardware.

The PogoPlug video, which did real-time transcoding from attached hard drives, retailed for $200. That could stream from any connected hard drive or video camera that supported USB. It could also print to printers. That also had hardware that the Stream wouldn't require, namely USB and hard drive support. Note, it was recalled and shelved because of fire risk.

There's a full blown linux computer on a board for $35. It doesn't have the power for real time transcoding, but it is pretty powerful for it's cost and is capable of outputting HD video.

Realistically the Stream could be nothing more than board with an embedded CPU, hardware transcoder and network interface. Something like that would be cheap even if you thrown in research, design and manufacturing.

I think $99 is a fair price, though the early adopter tax that TiVo tends to add to newly released products could push it up to $150. At that price though, one might as well just get a Slingbox, which can stream out over the Internet from any device.


----------



## sbiller

morac said:


> Realistically the Stream could be nothing more than board with an embedded CPU, hardware transcoder and network interface. Something like that would be cheap even if you thrown in research, design and manufacturing.


In fact you can combine the embedded CPU and hardware transcoder as both are part of the Zenverge ZN200 SoC. The ZN200 would connect to the E-NET or MoCA interfaces via a PCIe bus. Add some DDR memory, flash memory for Stream program storage, and power supply circuitry and a circuit board and that's probably about it for the hardware.

The big unknown is how much TiVo is paying for the ZN200. It appears that TiVo will be the first large customer for Zenverge so perhaps they received some pretty good discounts. The ZN200 actually appears to leverage a Synopsys DDR IP solution.

http://www.zenverge.com/pro-media-processors_zn200.html

https://www.synopsys.com/dw/doc.php/ss/zenverge_ss.pdf


----------



## bradleys

morac said:


> I'm not comparing Apple to TiVo, which isn't a fair comparison because of how huge Apple is. I'm comparing TiVo to relatively small companies which are comparable in size to TiVo (or smaller) .
> 
> The Slingbox has hardware in it that a Stream would not require, namely an analog to digital converter and input jacks. Any time you have A2D or D2A hardware, you greatly increase the price of the hardware.
> 
> The PogoPlug video, which did real-time transcoding from attached hard drives, retailed for $200. That could stream from any connected hard drive or video camera that supported USB. It could also print to printers. That also had hardware that the Stream wouldn't require, namely USB and hard drive support. Note, it was recalled and shelved because of fire risk.
> 
> There's a full blown linux computer on a board for $35. It doesn't have the power for real time transcoding, but it is pretty powerful for it's cost and is capable of outputting HD video.
> 
> Realistically the Stream could be nothing more than board with an embedded CPU, hardware transcoder and network interface. Something like that would be cheap even if you thrown in research, design and manufacturing.
> 
> I think $99 is a fair price, though the early adopter tax that TiVo tends to add to newly released products could push it up to $150. At that price though, one might as well just get a Slingbox, which can stream out over the Internet from any device.


I am not going to debate specific hardware elements in the device, but I suspect you are underestimating both the fixed costs and R&D costs.

As for Slingbox, even the non HD version is more expensive then you are allowing TiVo and it does not allow sideloading onto device - a function that I will be using a lot more then streaming...


----------



## ShayL

morac said:


> It would be impossible for TiVo to release a beta iOS app to 600 "winners" as Apple restricts test releases of apps to a maximum of 100 devices (devices, not users).


TiVo could release an app that works only with the stream. Then they could release a new version of the tivo app if they wanted to. Not an elegant option, but it is a lot easier than adding devices onto their apple account.


----------



## rainwater

I hope the cost isn't too much. My guess is it will be built-in to the next-gen boxes anyways.


----------



## morac

ShayL said:


> TiVo could release an app that works only with the stream. Then they could release a new version of the tivo app if they wanted to. Not an elegant option, but it is a lot easier than adding devices onto their apple account.


Yes, but then it wouldn't be a beta app, would it.


----------



## magnus

Well, I'm going with $59-$79. I can't imagine that it would be more.


----------



## Fofer

Optimistically, I am hoping it'll be $99 (or less.) I will pay up to $129.

Realistically, knowing what I know about this company, it'll be a ridiculous $249 (or more.)


----------



## smbaker

Fofer said:


> Realistically, knowing what I know about this company, it'll be a ridiculous $249 (or more.)


... or require a $15/mo service fee. 

I'd pay up to about $175, maybe $200. I'm expecting it to come in around $150. I'd be astonished if the price (including app) was less than $100.

We really need a poll about this!!


----------



## crxssi

I don't care what the price is. No Android = no interest.

But if I had to speculate, I would say $150.


----------



## larrs

crxssi said:


> I don't care what the price is. No Android = no interest.
> 
> But if I had to speculate, I would say $150.


+1 on the "no interest" part...


----------



## tomm1079

if it cant stream outside of the house 150 is way to much. I would be better off getting a Slingbox if it is 150. The solo's are on WOOT all the time for pretty cheap


----------



## moyekj

+2 on no interest. For me nothing I record is copy protected so I can download stuff I need and edit out commercials, etc. and put shows on any device I want. Plus since I already have a Slingbox I can watch via internet if desired as well. i.e. Much more capability than this box will offer. I can understand the interest from some but it's a pass for me. I too doubt very much it will be under $100 at least for initial release. TiVo has always surprised me on the up side as far as initial pricing goes. I'm more interested in the Mini.


----------



## BlackBetty

I love the people that make an effort to come into these threads just to say they are not interested. Lol


----------



## bradleys

moyekj said:


> +2 on no interest. For me nothing I record is copy protected so I can download stuff I need and edit out commercials, etc. and put shows on any device I want. Plus since I already have a Slingbox I can watch via internet if desired as well. i.e. Much more capability than this box will offer. I can understand the interest from some but it's a pass for me. I too doubt very much it will be under $100 at least for initial release. TiVo has always surprised me on the up side as far as initial pricing goes. I'm more interested in the Mini.


And that is exactly what hope this device will help with. Yes, I have moved a movies to my computer and then used KMTTG to decrypt, strip commercials and properly format the file for use on an iPad.

The process works - some of the time. Unfortunately, I continue to experience problems with audio being out of sync with video and other quality issues in the end product.

And while the tools are fantastic, it is still a burden to move / clip / sync to videos. If I am getting ready for a trip, I really do not have time for all that.

A method that will allow me to browse my videos, simply select the ones I want to watch later and walk away - that would be fantastic! And frankly, a dedicated transcoder is really huge for me.

And all this functionality when I am getting ready to ditch the iPAD!!!!


----------



## innocentfreak

This is why I am hoping someone will be able to figure out how to use the Stream with KMTTG. Transferring shows that are already transcoded would be nice. Now this is assuming the quality is high enough that when it is pushed back to the TiVo it still looks as good as the original or close to it.


----------



## L David Matheny

BlackBetty said:


> I love the people that make an effort to come into these threads just to say they are not interested. Lol


If TiVo does watch these forums at all, we would hope that widespread lack of interest or specific reservations might cause them to improve the feature set or the pricing structure of the unit in order to increase its appeal. My 2-cents worth: Even if I had cable, I also wouldn't pay monthly for a box like the new TiVo Mini, since there's no reason for it to have a monthly fee.


----------



## smbaker

sbiller said:


> I've been told that TiVo will announce the contest winners tomorrow.


Anyone hear anything yet?


----------



## Fofer

I heard they're having another raffle, and the winners of _this_ raffle will get the list of email addresses that have been chosen from the first raffle, which corresponds to the names of people who will be granted a chance to be entered onto the wait list in order to be chosen as potential buyers to pre-order this product still-in-beta.


----------



## Rebate_King

smbaker said:


> Anyone hear anything yet?


its only 9am in TiVo land. Give them time to have a cup of coffee first .

Anyone else think this is one of those "everyone wins" contests? Like when you go to a billiards hall and you put your business card into a bowl for a chance to win free pool for a party of 10+. Basically its two pool tables from 5-7pm (dead time anyway) and they get you to bring a crowd in and buy drinks and food for a time they normally wouldn't be getting much business.


----------



## smbaker

Rebate_King said:


> its only 9am in TiVo land. Give them time to have a cup of coffee first .


I want to pre-order my stream. NOW!

(which means I'll be the one guy here to not win)



Rebate_king said:


> Anyone else think this is one of those "everyone wins" contests?


Although they said '600 winners', I wouldn't be surprised. 75% of the people in this thread (a totally made up statistic that I just pulled out of my arse) have said they won't buy the device if it costs > $100, and it's almost certainly going to cost > $100. Then we have to add the people who don't have iDevices, the people who entered the contest thinking they would 'win' something and not the opportunity to buy something, those who the wife tells them that a Tivo Stream is not necessary, etc. I suspect less than 10% of those who "win" will order.


----------



## OrangeWhip

I just got the confirmation that I can pre-order one for only $129.99. That seems pretty steep to me.


----------



## Eradik

Just got my email. Launches september 5th for 129.99. Preorder by the 4th. 

Streams really DO come true.
You have an exclusive opportunity to be the first to receive the NEW TiVo Stream before it is released to the public. The TiVo Stream is the next evolution in the TiVo experience and will change the way you watch TV forever. 

Call by September 4th (noon PST) to order your new TiVo Stream and receive it on September 5th*. The TiVo Stream is just $129.99 with no additional service fee.

What is TiVo Stream? 
When your family's favorite shows are only as far away as the nearest iPad®, iPhone® or iPod touch®, everybody's happier. The groundbreaking TiVo Stream ends those family fights over the TV. From the top bunk in the twin's room to Dad's backyard hammock, all your recorded shows are now with you wherever you are. Need to hit the road? Use Stream to transfer your shows to your mobile device and bring them to ballet class or on business class. Now the best things on TV are no longer stuck on TV.	

Product Overview
Stream shows to up to 3 different mobile devices in your home simultaneously
Watch a show on your smartphone or tablet as it's being recorded - almost like watching live TV
Wirelessly transfer shows to your smartphone or tablet within your home - then take them anywhere
Download a 1-hour show to your mobile device in as little as 15 minutes


----------



## Fofer

I just got the email too! Woo hoo! I'm a "winner!" 

Posted yesterday:



Fofer said:


> Optimistically, I am hoping it'll be $99 (or less.) I will pay up to $129.


*D'oh! *


----------



## Eradik

For 129.99 I don't feel like a winner. I'll pass, and/or wait to see how people like it first.


----------



## Rebate_King

No email for me yet. Guess I didn't "win". I'm sure this box will be $99 or less online (other than tivo.com) by the holidays. Maybe as low as $70 on amazon.


----------



## Philmatic

Oh come on, $129 is an excellent price for something that can transcode 3 streams simultaneously, especially without a service fee. My only beef with it is that I need a Windows app before I bite, preferably a Windows 8 app.


----------



## bradleys

Nothing for me... Oh, well - I was ready to REALLY test it out for them!

Slightly disapointed...


----------



## Eradik

I just read the bottom "terms":

_Not all programs may be transferred using TiVo Stream due to the use of copy protection mechanisms permitted under the FCC's encoding rules. Some shows cannot be transferred due to the copy protection assigned them by the program provider. These shows usually are marked with a red circle-slash icon._

So, it sounds like they are using the same as transferring rules that are to a PC. Sad. I was hoping that since it was being transferred to their "app" that it would ignore copy protection, since the app theoretically would lock it to only your device. I watch a lot of HBO/Showtime, so this kind of sucks. (Yes, I know there is HBO/MAX Go, but without unlimited data anymore, I try not to use this away from wifi).

Maybe it transfers to your 'Videos' app and therefore can pull it out using a computer. I would have rather had them make you have to use their app to prevent this, if it allowed me to transfer copy protected shows to watch on the go.

I can only assume that since the terms said transfer, that it will still stream inside the home. But, why would I watch a show on my iPhone instead of my HDTV?

For sure going to pass. Too bad.


----------



## Philmatic

Eradik said:


> I just read the bottom "terms":
> 
> _Not all programs may be transferred using TiVo Stream due to the use of copy protection mechanisms permitted under the FCC's encoding rules. Some shows cannot be transferred due to the copy protection assigned them by the program provider. These shows usually are marked with a red circle-slash icon._
> 
> So, it sounds like they are using the same as transferring rules that are to a PC. Sad. I was hoping that since it was being transferred to their "app" that it would ignore copy protection, since the app theoretically would lock it to only your device. I watch a lot of HBO/Showtime, so this kind of sucks. (Yes, I know there is HBO/MAX Go, but without unlimited data anymore, I try not to use this).
> 
> Maybe it transfers to your 'Videos' app and therefore can pull it out using a computer. I would have rather had them make you have to use their app to prevent this, if it allowed me to transfer copy protected shows to watch on the go.


Those are the rules they are forced to work with to even be able to record these programs. You aren't even able to copy a show from one TiVo to another TiVo in your same household if the CCI byte is set, what makes you think they will let you re-encode it and take it with you on a portable device.



Eradik said:


> But, why would I watch a show on my iPhone instead of my HDTV?


Being able to watch recorded shows outdoors while your grilling or just sitting around would be a good use case. Temporary viewing of TV in the garage without having to haul out a TV, your TiVo and having to find electricity and coax hookups.


----------



## aaronwt

I wonder if the Mini will be priced similarly?


----------



## Surrealone

I'm in.. Gonna try it $129 not gonna break me


----------



## Philmatic

aaronwt said:


> I wonder if the Mini will be priced similarly?


That would be HUGE! I would sell my two premieres, get an XL4 and 3 Mini's.


----------



## smbaker

No email for me. 

I'd have bought one too, at $129.

Are they sending out codes for people to redeem this? or is it keyed to email address? I wonder if people will start selling their codes on ebay, like they did with nest invites.

Does the email say when they are shipping?


----------



## wombat94

I also just got the email confirming that I "won" as well.

I'm definitely tempted. $129 with no service fee is a pretty tempting price point for me.

We've got two premieres, 4 people, two iPads and multiple iPhones in the house... streaming of all recorded content and transferring of most content for offline viewing could be very nice.

Ted


----------



## Fofer

If my upstream is fast enough, I really don't get why they won't let me stream video content remotely, outside my home, to my iPad (especially since they already won't let me transfer the majority of video, due to the CCI flag.) I'd like to experiment with this, maybe even try to set it up via my VPN, to see if I can get it to work.


----------



## Eradik

Philmatic said:


> Those are the rules they are forced to work with to even be able to record these programs. You aren't even able to copy a show from one TiVo to another TiVo in your same household if the CCI byte is set, what makes you think they will let you re-encode it and take it with you on a portable device.


Ahh, I did not know that. Sorry, never explored with tivo-to-tivo, only have 1 tivo and TV. It's kind of baffling why they wouldn't allow Tivo-to-Tivo (by they I mean the content providers, I know Tivo is just following the rules). But at the same time, it still would have been nice for them to work out some sort of a deal. Don't know how possible that would be, but it would have made it much nicer of a service.

HBO Go lets you watch everything on the go, why cant they allow it if it's locked into a Tivo-app that wouldn't allow sharing with others? Hell, I can give my username and password out for Comcast and let anyone I want watch HBO Go. I really wish these content providers would grow up a little bit. It's 2012. Everything is avoidable.

Again, this is just more of a rant against the FCC/Content providers, so please take it as such. And I know it's ultimately out of Tivo's hands. 



Philmatic said:


> Being able to watch recorded shows outdoors while your grilling or just sitting around would be a good use case. Temporary viewing of TV in the garage without having to haul out a TV, your TiVo and having to find electricity and coax hookups.


For some people, maybe. If I still had my iPad it would be useful. On a tiny iPhone screen, guess I'm just not that addicted to TV where I need to watch it while I'm flipping hamburgers for five minutes.



smbaker said:


> No email for me.
> 
> I'd have bought one too, at $129.
> 
> Are they sending out codes for people to redeem this? or is it keyed to email address? I wonder if people will start selling their codes on ebay, like they did with nest invites.


No codes, just a phone number. Probably tied to email address or name when you call.


----------



## skywalkm

Just ordered mine. Came to $147.01 with tax and shipping. $8 shipping; tried to get that knocked off to no avail. Had to be on hold for about 5 minutesnot sure he knew what to do with these. App will go live in the App Store on 9/5.


----------



## Fofer

Return policy?


----------



## bradleys

You guys will have to give us "loosers" a blow by blow on how well the system works.


----------



## jjd_87

skywalkm said:


> Just ordered mine. Came to $147.01 with tax and shipping. $8 shipping; tried to get that knocked off to no avail. Had to be on hold for about 5 minutesnot sure he knew what to do with these. App will go live in the App Store on 9/5.


How did they confirm you were a "winner"?


----------



## HiKent

Is there any way to control a tuner? I thought I remembered it being described as a "mini" for the iPad. Much less useful as a recorded stream only device.


----------



## skywalkm

Fofer said:


> Return policy?


He said 30 days from shipping day, but later when going over terms, it sounded like 15 days. If I have any issues, I'll take care of it right away so I'm not too worried. I did catch that you'd have to cover the shipping yourself on the return. Usually with any calls to TiVo, they are extremely cordial and pleasant; this guy wasn't. Meh, I've got a survey from them, so that will be noted. Also, if that thing doesn't come right on 9/5, I'll fight the shipping.

Man, for winning this lotto, you'd think at least the shipping would be free!


----------



## skywalkm

jjd_87 said:


> How did they confirm you were a "winner"?


Ha! They didn't! Other than confirming my account when placing the order. $20 says you call to order it and they won't even ask.


----------



## skywalkm

HiKent said:


> Is there any way to control a tuner? I thought I remembered it being described as a "mini" for the iPad. Much less useful as a recorded stream only device.


I don't think so, but can't you kind of do that now with the existing app?


----------



## Aero 1

i didnt get the email but what is stopping me from calling and ordering? did they ask for something specific to the winner? i dont see a code in the email


----------



## innocentfreak

No listing on Amazon yet for preorder, but we will probably have to wait for the official announcement next week before it goes live.


----------



## aaronwt

Even if did get the email. Since the pri e with shipping and taxes is higher and it doesn't work with android initially. I might as well wait until BestBuy has it and get it for a lower price. And hopefully by then it will be available on Androids devices. 

Besides I would have thought Android might have been first since more people have those devices.

Sent from my HTC ReZound using Forum Runner


----------



## innocentfreak

aaronwt said:


> Besides I would have thought Android might have been first since more people have those devices.


I was talking in one of these threads, maybe this one, and they said the Android app was still missing things that had been fixed or added to the IOS version. I wonder if they don't have a dedicated Android team.


----------



## bradleys

OK, so if I am understanding the details correctly - this is interesting... 

The contest only allows you to pre-order. As I understand it, general release will be on September 5th and at that time everyone will be able to order at that point. The 600 will get the first shipment - after the general release.

Any of the winners want to confirm what have been told?


----------



## WVZR1

No mail here either! Looks like an initial savings of $150! It's great to be "passed over" - I maybe a little later to the "party" but the ticket in might be something substantially less.

The kick in the arse on the Elite still has me a little irritated.


----------



## generaltso

I didn't get the email, but I just called and ordered one anyway. They don't check anything, so apparently the "sweepstakes" is kinda bogus. Anyone can call and pre-order. They say that it will arrive on 9/5, but it's also shipping via UPS Ground so I would think they will have to ship it out soon. The total was $137.91 with shipping (no tax). I wonder if you wait until 9/4 to call if they make you pay for overnight shipping.


----------



## overFEDEXed

I wish that it was for the IP-STB. I guess that I will go ahead and order it.


----------



## Dan203

Eradik said:


> Ahh, I did not know that. Sorry, never explored with tivo-to-tivo, only have 1 tivo and TV. It's kind of baffling why they wouldn't allow Tivo-to-Tivo (by they I mean the content providers, I know Tivo is just following the rules). But at the same time, it still would have been nice for them to work out some sort of a deal. Don't know how possible that would be, but it would have made it much nicer of a service.


These are the rules for CableCARD, they have nothing to do with the specific providers or channels. Basically the flag marks the show "copy once", which means only one copy of the program can exist at a given time. They can stream the program to another room or device because they are not making a copy, but they can not move it to another device or it violates the CableCARD rules. They might be able to move the show, rather then copy it, but I've never seen a clear answer if that's OK or not. And even if it were TiVo doesn't currently have that ability so they'd have to add it.

Dan


----------



## smbaker

generaltso said:


> I didn't get the email, but I just called and ordered one anyway. They don't check anything, so apparently the "sweepstakes" is kinda bogus. Anyone can call and pre-order.


What phone number? can you PM me the details?


----------



## Dan203

Me too, I want to order one.

Instead of making this a stupid sweepstake they should have just made it the first 600 people to call and order. Half the people who "won" probably aren't even going to buy

Dan


----------



## Ky_Shag

877 289-8486
i had to pay tax Order Total: $ 146.19


----------



## generaltso

smbaker said:


> What phone number? can you PM me the details?


I called the number in the "Shop by Phone" section on TiVo.com, which is (877)289-8486.


----------



## Surrealone

what about shows I transfer to my premier from my S3? Will I be able to steam the shows?


----------



## generaltso

Dan203 said:


> Instead of making this a stupid sweepstake they should have just made it the first 600 people to call and order. Half the people who "won" probably aren't even going to buy


I'd be surprised if they end up with 600 preorders. If I knew for sure that the Stream would be available at Amazon on 9/5, I would just wait and save the shipping cost.


----------



## smbaker

Did you select option 1 (order a tivo box) or option 2 (other stuff) ?


----------



## generaltso

smbaker said:


> Did you select option 1 (order a tivo box) or option 2 (other stuff) ?


Option 1


----------



## Ky_Shag

yup op1


----------



## Dan203

Surrealone said:


> what about shows I transfer to my premier from my S3? Will I be able to steam the shows?


No. You'll only be able to stream from a Premiere unit. This basically taps into the Multi-Room Streaming capability of Premiere units. MRS doesn't work with S3 units, so neither will this.

Dan


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Surrealone said:


> what about shows I transfer to my premier from my S3? Will I be able to steam the shows?


I don't think Dan read your post correctly. You can stream any recordings from your Premiere. So if you copied recordings from an S3 to the Premiere, that should work fine.


----------



## Dan203

You're right I read it backwards. I thought he was asking about streaming shows he transferred to the S3 from the Premiere.  If you're transferring from the S3 to the Premiere then that will work, but you'll have to wait for the transfer to finish before you can start watching.

Dan


----------



## Surrealone

Dan203 said:


> No. You'll only be able to stream from a Premiere unit. This basically taps into the Multi-Room Streaming capability of Premiere units. MRS doesn't work with S3 units, so neither will this.
> 
> Dan





BigJimOutlaw said:


> I don't think Dan read your post correctly. You can stream any recordings from your Premiere. So if you copied recordings from an S3 to the Premiere, that should work fine.


 Thank you


Dan203 said:


> You're right I read it backwards. I thought he was asking about streaming shows he transferred to the S3 from the Premiere.  If you're transferring from the S3 to the Premiere then that will work, but you'll have to wait for the transfer to finish before you can start watching.
> 
> Dan


 time the all read backwards I ok That's


----------



## Dan203

generaltso said:


> I called the number in the "Shop by Phone" section on TiVo.com, which is (877)289-8486.


Decisions, decisions. I really want one of these, but I have an Amazon gift card worth enough to cover it. If I knew for sure it would be available on Amazon soon I'd just wait, but if not then I'll just pay TiVo the $150 and get it now.

Dan


----------



## drebbe

I was not a "sweepstakes winner", but had no issues ordering one. In the eyes of TiVo, we are all winners I guess...


----------



## smbaker

drebbe said:


> I was not a "sweepstakes winner", but had no issues ordering one. In the eyes of TiVo, we are all winners I guess...


In the eyes of Charlie Sheen, "Duh! Winning!"


----------



## crxssi

Eradik said:


> "When your family's favorite shows are only as far away as the nearest iPad®, iPhone® or iPod touch®, everybody's happier."


Not everybody.



> Watch a show on your smartphone or tablet


Correction- watch a show on your iphone or ipad only, as it's being recorded



> Wirelessly transfer shows to your smartphone or tablet within


Ditto

If it supported the #1smartphone platform and #2 tablet platform, I would jump on it for $129. Let the waiting begin...


----------



## falken98

No email. I thought for sure everyone would be a "winner" since the prize is a chance to pay MSRP+shipping+tax for the product.


----------



## Dan203

crxssi said:


> If it supported the #1smartphone platform and *#2 tablet platform*, I would jump on it for $129. Let the waiting begin...


#2 of 2. I bet it's #3 by the end of next year.

I've mentioned this before but the main problem with Android is segmentation. It may be the #1 smartphone platform, but there are dozens of different versions and configurations you have to account for when writing an app. It's a PITA!

Plus I think the vast majority of users of this device are going to use tablets for viewing, which right now means a iPads. Phones are just too small to provide an enjoyable video viewing experience for most people. (although some of those new Android "phones" are damn near tablets)

Dan


----------



## crxssi

Dan203 said:


> #2 of 2. I bet it's #3 by the end of next year.


I would take that bet 



> I've mentioned this before but the main problem with Android is segmentation. It may be the #1 smartphone platform, but there are dozens of different versions and configurations you have to account for when writing an app. It's a PITA!


I agree that fragmentation can be an issue, but properly written Android apps (of which many are not) can overcome most of those issues. It will never be perfect, nor will it be as easy as targeting a locked-up, single-vendor, low-choice, walled-garden product like Apple phones/tablets.

Yet Apple has it's own mini-fragmentation going on with its own several models now (each with different processing power, resolution, screen size, GPU capabilities, and maximum OS rev) and the mini ipad coming out soon to further muddy it.



> Plus I think the vast majority of users of this device are going to use tablets for viewing, which right now means a iPads. Phones are just too small to provide an enjoyable video viewing experience for most people. (although some of those new Android "phones" are damn near tablets)


I have to admit, I am far less interested in a using a phone with this stuff than my Xoom (tablet). Even though I have a "superphone" (Evo LTE) watching even a large phone screen that is "only" 4.7" while somewhere else AT HOME is probably not something terribly wonderful. Nexus 7? Probably. 10" Xoom/Infiniti/whatever.... certainly.

I think you and I are probably in the majority, but who knows, I have been surprised by such things in the past.


----------



## stoli412

Does anyone know if the iPhone/iPad app will support AirPlay? It would be awesome to stream to the iPad and then send it to the Apple TV to watch on the big screen. 

And who knows, the Apple TV may be getting an app store of its own in the near future. A TiVo app directly on the Apple TV that taps into Stream? That would be even more awesome.


----------



## freeze12

I received an email from Tivo today at 1:30PM "Congratulations, you're eligible to pre-order the NEW TiVo® Stream!" but I do not have an I Phone, I Pad etc. so I wish this was Android compatible. Oh well, I am glad Tivo is still an innovative company!


----------



## mattack

Dan203 said:


> These are the rules for CableCARD, they have nothing to do with the specific providers or channels. Basically the flag marks the show "copy once", which means only one copy of the program can exist at a given time. They can stream the program to another room or device because they are not making a copy, but they can not move it to another device or it violates the CableCARD rules. They might be able to move the show, rather then copy it, but I've never seen a clear answer if that's OK or not. And even if it were TiVo doesn't currently have that ability so they'd have to add it.


This is tangential, especially since it's not Tivo nor CableCARD related, but other recorders DO support the copy once flag. For example, some recordings on my XS32 are copy once, so I can move them to a DVD-RAM, but at the same time, it deletes the original from the hard drive.


----------



## Fofer

But then can't you rip it off that DVD-RAM and do whatever you want with it?


----------



## hummingbird_206

Engadget uses TCF as a source!


----------



## drebbe

There is a very positive review in this morning's Wall Street Journal on the TiVo stream. Since the Journal has a pay wall around its content I won't link the article. Perhaps the most newsworthy item was that Android compatibility is coming. TiVo's earnings call is this afternoon so hopefully we will get more information on the Stream, Mini and VOD rollout among other things.


----------



## sbiller

drebbe said:


> There is a very positive review in this morning's Wall Street Journal on the TiVo stream. Since the Journal has a pay wall around its content I won't link the article. Perhaps the most newsworthy item was that Android compatibility is coming. TiVo's earnings call is this afternoon so hopefully we will get more information on the Stream, Mini and VOD rollout among other things.


http://allthingsd.com/20120828/tivo-stream-gets-viewers-off-the-couch/


----------



## Fofer

I am wondering if you can queue transfers or if you must do one at a time.


----------



## aaronwt

sbiller said:


> http://allthingsd.com/20120828/tivo-stream-gets-viewers-off-the-couch/


At the beginning of the article he said


> ..streams content from your TiVo to up to four mobile devices in your home at high-definition quality..


And then later he mentions


> ..while another one-hour episode took 28 minutes to download onto my iPad in "Best" definition (one gigabyte)...


So is the stream sending HD content to the mobile device or a lower resolution of the HD content.?

It sounds like a lower defintiion version. WHich for a small device makes sense, but he specifically says it's HD at the beginning.


----------



## drebbe

aaronwt said:


> At the beginning of the article he said
> 
> And then later he mentions
> 
> So is the stream sending HD content to the mobile device or a lower resolution of the HD content.?
> 
> It sounds like a lower defintiion version. WHich for a small device makes sense, but he specifically says it's HD at the beginning.


I suspect it has to do with the ambiguity around with the words "HD", "best" and "standard". The iPhone 4s screen resolution is 960x640 and for the iPad it's 2048x1536. I would guess that at the "best" setting we are getting a stream/file that is at the maximum resolution of the receiving device. Is 960x640 "HD" or not? Of course not on a 40+ inch TV, but at 326 dpi on the iPhone screen how many more pixels do you need?


----------



## compnurd

I am a little disappointed with the pricing... i thought 99 would have been a better price point


----------



## sbiller

compnurd said:


> I am a little disappointed with the pricing... i thought 99 would have been a better price point


Pricing at $99 to $129 puts it in the almost impulse purchase territory. I think it comes down to economics for TiVo. They don't want to subsidize the Stream (or the Mini) for that matter. I suspect $99 would have been pushing that equation but I do think they would have still been profitable at $99. This is most likely the early adopter tax and we will see $99 sales on the Stream.


----------



## jcthorne

I have no quibble with the price. If they get it going with android or if kmttg gets updated to work with it, I'll likely order one then. Perhaps by then, mainstream retail channels like Amazon will be discounting it. 

As I cannot make use of ANY of its functions as released. No sense in ordering now.

They really missed the boat releasing this without Android support.


----------



## jrtroo

I'm guessing that they have figured out through market research that iOS users out there are more eager to jump on the bandwagon with a first generation product at first generation pricing than android users, in general. I know that there have been studies released that iOS users are way more likely to purchase impulse apps than android users. So, dedicate the resources first where they will have more initial sales.

I'm waiting until it will work with my xoom, but can't wait for it to be available.


----------



## gtrogue

Ordered mine. I've really been looking forward to the Stream. We only have one TV in the house but we have two iPads and several iPhones. In will be nice to have additional screens in other rooms without adding new TV's.


----------



## jonglee

Just ordered mine based on this post (didn't do anything on FB) and they asked how I found out and told them I got the email via Facebook.

All good - thanks for the post guys!


----------



## ort

I'm all over this thing... but I'm going to wait on reviews and user feedback on how it actually performs.

$129 is a little more than I'd like to pay, but it's not high enough to turn me off.

I'm looking forward to eventually getting my house down to one TiVo box and streaming out to all of the other TVs/devices. I'm tired of transfering shows and always thinking about whats on what TV.

"Did I watch this upstairs? Do I need to delete this? Where is ______?"

Juggling 3 TiVos is a pain. (firstworldproblems)


----------



## NotVeryWitty

I just placed my order -- did not enter the "contest".

I'm actually quite happy with the price -- at $129, they're not making much money on this at the quantities they'll be selling.


----------



## dsnotgood

Just so some of you know...this looks like it requires your TiVo to be plugged in a Ethernet port, no wireless.


----------



## bradleys

dsnotgood said:


> Just so some of you know...this looks like it requires your TiVo to be plugged in a Ethernet port, no wireless.


That is correct - it uses MRS streaming as the basis and either a MOCA or Ethernet connect is "required".

I put that in quotes, because I am not actually sure that it absolutely will not work (disabled) for wireless. But it is definately unsuported wirelessly...

If you do not have an ethernet drop at your TV, definately look into MOCA - you will apreciate it.


----------



## generaltso

bradleys said:


> If you do not have an ethernet drop at your TV, definately look into MOCA - you will apreciate it.


I don't think the Stream has MOCA built in, so you will need a separate MOCA adapter if you want to go that route.


----------



## denga

Will the Tivo Stream work with an Cisco Adapter Box? I have TWC (Torrance, CA) and have had dropped or missing channel error messages for over a year now. I also have a claim filed with the FCC and they are investigating it for the last year as well.


----------



## bradleys

generaltso said:


> I don't think the Stream has MOCA built in, so you will need a separate MOCA adapter if you want to go that route.


The stream does not need MOCA, it will connect directly to your router... It does not need to be anywhere near your tv or TiVo just find the shortest ethernet cable you can get and connect it directly to your router.

It is the connection to your Premier that needs to be hardwired. Either ethernet or MOCA will do.


----------



## hefe

I hadn't kept up with TiVo news, didn't know about the Stream until I saw a review today on All Things D. Looks like a really slick device! Stream to a tablet, watch live content, download programs for offline...take my money! 

I see that Android is "coming soon." Would be nice to have it right away, but not too long, I hope.


----------



## bradleys

denga said:


> Will the Tivo Stream work with an Cisco Adapter Box? I have TWC (Torrance, CA) and have had dropped or missing channel error messages for over a year now. I also have a claim filed with the FCC and they are investigating it for the last year as well.


The Stream works directly with content saved on your Premier - your cable connection should have no impact.


----------



## innocentfreak

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-08/tivo-stream-review/

Zatz's review is up.


----------



## davezatz

innocentfreak said:


> http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-08/tivo-stream-review/
> 
> Zatz's review is up.


I like it!


----------



## innocentfreak

davezatz said:


> I like it!


Great you spoiled it, now who will go read the review


----------



## davezatz

innocentfreak said:


> Great you spoiled it, now who will go read the review


Well, there's like a dozen pictures to look at.


----------



## stoli412

Zatz's review says no AirPlay or HDMI out support on the iPad. I'm out.


----------



## aaronwt

bradleys said:


> That is correct - it uses MRS streaming as the basis and either a MOCA or Ethernet connect is "required".
> 
> I put that in quotes, because I am not actually sure that it absolutely will not work (disabled) for wireless. But it is definately unsuported wirelessly...
> 
> If you do not have an ethernet drop at your TV, definately look into MOCA - you will apreciate it.


It should certainly work with a Wi-Fi media bridge. as long as everything is setup properly. Curently with my Premieres, I can get identical streaming and transfer speeds over a media bridge as when it's connected to the wired portion of my network. So I would expect the stream or the mini to be no different.


----------



## davezatz

aaronwt said:


> It should certainly work with a Wi-Fi media bridge. as long as everything is setup properly. Curently with my Premieres, I can get identical streaming and transfer speeds over a media bridge as when it's connected to the wired portion of my network. So I would expect the stream or the mini to be no different.


Yeah, I have an 802.11g bridge I could try tonight. I assume it'll work. Of course, better bandwidth = better stream.


----------



## aaronwt

davezatz said:


> Yeah, I have an 802.11g bridge I could try tonight. I assume it'll work. Of course, better bandwidth = better stream.


I was thinking wireless N. At least that what my bridges use. I would think wireless G might be a little slow in handling several streams at once because of the low badwidth.


----------



## davezatz

aaronwt said:


> I was thinking wireless N. At least that what my bridges use. I would think wireless G might be a little slow in handling several streams at once because of the low badwidth.


Yeah, it's definitely low. I think most people would be able to hardwire the Stream since it's small and it may be their Premiere that would need a bridge. Mine is ancient, hence the g speeds.


----------



## jrtroo

I'm a little confused, I probably just did not understand some of these descriptions.

Does the stream have its own radio? Or is it using the wifi connected to the home router?


----------



## jmpage2

In for one! It's worth it to me just for the side-loading.


----------



## Fofer

davezatz said:


> Yeah, it's definitely low. I think most people would be able to hardwire the Stream since it's small and it may be their Premiere that would need a bridge. Mine is ancient, hence the g speeds.


Can you queue downloads, or must you manually invoke them, one at a time?


----------



## SugarBowl

Do you need a separate Tivo Stream for each Tivo Premiere that you want to stream from ?


----------



## davezatz

Fofer said:


> Can you queue downloads, or must you manually invoke them, one at a time?


Yeah, you can queue them. Just be prepared to leave your iPad plugged in and lit up for awhile. 



SugarBowl said:


> Do you need a separate Tivo Stream for each Tivo Premiere that you want to stream from ?


No.


----------



## bradleys

jrtroo said:


> I'm a little confused, I probably just did not understand some of these descriptions.
> 
> Does the stream have its own radio? Or is it using the wifi connected to the home router?


The Stream is LAN Connected - no wifi and it doesn't need to be. Hook it up directy to your router. 
*IT DOES NOT NEED TO BE NEAR EITHER A TIVO OR A TV!*

I think the question is "will it work with a wifi connected TiVo?" It should if you have enough bandwidth - but that is a big "IF" for a lot of people.

TiVo says - only hardwired TiVo's are supported.


----------



## drosoph

As a Non-Winner, I tried to call the number and order one, but I was refused because I did not receive the email and do not have a "code" from the email. 

Anyone not using their "winning" Golden Ticket for an MSRP+Tax+Shipping Stream?


----------



## atmuscarella

jrtroo said:


> I'm a little confused, I probably just did not understand some of these descriptions.
> 
> Does the stream have its own radio? Or is it using the wifi connected to the home router?


No the stream does not have a radio and yes it uses what ever you are currently using to broadcast wifi. The stream has to be hard wired through to the device that you are currently using to broadcast wifi.


----------



## davezatz

drosoph said:


> As a Non-Winner, I tried to call the number and order one, but I was refused because I did not receive the email and do not have a "code" from the email.


There is no code...


----------



## Fofer

lol


----------



## drosoph

davezatz said:


> There is no code...


I got had by a CSR  2nd call into them went MUCH better


----------



## Flojomojo

drosoph said:


> I got had by a CSR  2nd call into them went MUCH better


Why are they leaving money on the table like this? I called them, offered to give them money, and they told me that if I didn't "like" their FB post and get an email back, they don't want to sell me one of their boxes? How completely odd, and lame?!


----------



## davezatz

Flojomojo said:


> Why are they leaving money on the table like this? I called them, offered to give them money, and they told me that if I didn't "like" their FB post and get an email back, they don't want to sell me one of their boxes? How completely odd, and lame?!


I assume they have a limited number of units from their first shipment and those were the ones they can deliver by 9/5. I also assume another shipment is enroute since they're opening the doors wide on 9/6.


----------



## bradleys

Seems like they have blown through their 600 units! When I called, they asked for my email address and very quickly made some comment about it being shiped out after the 5th - the date of general availability.

The "winners" are supposed to receive the unit ON September 5th. 

A few days one way or the other does not matter to me - But hey, I am interested to know know if anyone who is not actually a sweepstakes winner, receives their TiVo Stream on September 5th.


----------



## jmpage2

I had no such problem. I called the SALES number specifically and when TiVo SALES answered the phone I said "I'd like to pre-order the TiVo Stream". She told me they had one in the break room and it was very cool. The total transaction took perhaps 5 minutes. She also said that they would bump my order up to overnight shipping at no extra charge so that I got it within a day of when it was in the stores.


----------



## Flojomojo

drosoph said:


> I got had by a CSR  2nd call into them went MUCH better





jmpage2 said:


> I had no such problem. I called the SALES number specifically and when TiVo SALES answered the phone I said "I'd like to pre-order the TiVo Stream". She told me they had one in the break room and it was very cool. The total transaction took perhaps 5 minutes. She also said that they would bump my order up to overnight shipping at no extra charge so that I got it within a day of when it was in the stores.


Nice. What number? Perhaps I'll try again.


----------



## bradleys

Dave...


I am pretty sure I know the answer - but It is worth the question...

If I have a home movie or other video on my media library (something other then a .tivo file), can I move the video to my Premier and then sideload it to the tablet?

Any restrictions on non .tivo files I guess is the real question.


----------



## jmpage2

Flojomojo said:


> Nice. What number? Perhaps I'll try again.


877-289-8486


----------



## brentil

The $129 is also the MSRP. This is a hardware only product more like a slide remote or wifi bridge than another TiVo so one might expect the price to be less at other vendors once it has been out for a bit.


----------



## Surrealone

WOO HOO just got my order in  And I got the shipping for free even better


----------



## davezatz

bradleys said:


> Dave...
> 
> I am pretty sure I know the answer - but It is worth the question...
> 
> If I have a home movie or other video on my media library (something other then a .tivo file), can I move the video to my Premier and then sideload it to the tablet?
> 
> Any restrictions on non .tivo files I guess is the real question.


Good question, and I don't know the answer. I know things like the podcast downloads and Amazon videos won't come over, but I would assume video we moved over would be seen as any other "normal" recording. I'll check in with a beta tester I know and reply if/when I learn anything further.


----------



## jrtroo

atmuscarella said:


> No the stream does not have a radio and yes it uses what ever you are currently using to broadcast wifi. The stream has to be hard wired through to the device that you are currently using to broadcast wifi.


Thanks. Great I can stick it in my basement out of the way, but annoying that I'll finally have to move my router to get a decent wifi signal to my detached garage!


----------



## Surrealone

davezatz said:


> Good question, and I don't know the answer. I know things like the podcast downloads and Amazon videos won't come over, but I would assume video we moved over would be seen as any other "normal" recording. I'll check in with a beta tester I know and reply if/when I learn anything further.


This is a great question I have tons of kids movies I transfer to my Tivo from PC/Media server. I also have other format movies that I like to transfer to my Tivo. I'm crossing my fingers that this is going to work.


----------



## SWFan

stoli412 said:


> Does anyone know if the iPhone/iPad app will support AirPlay? It would be awesome to stream to the iPad and then send it to the Apple TV to watch on the big screen.
> 
> And who knows, the Apple TV may be getting an app store of its own in the near future. A TiVo app directly on the Apple TV that taps into Stream? That would be even more awesome.


That would kind of suck due to bandwidth issues. You'll be streaming wirelessly to your iPad, then streaming wireless out from your iPad to your Apple TV. It would be better if Tivo just had an Apple TV app.

Unless this thing downloads to your iPad/iPhone before being able to watch the show. I haven't read all the details on this device so it may work that way and thus you wouldn't be trying to push/pull data simultaneously over one wifi connection.


----------



## Fofer

SWFan said:


> That would kind of suck due to bandwidth issues. You'll be streaming wirelessly to your iPad, then streaming wireless out from your iPad to your Apple TV. It would be better if Tivo just had an Apple TV app.


People do with with Air Video, streaming from Air Video Server on their computers, AirPlaying to their TV, all the time.

http://www.inmethod.com/air-video/index.html;jsessionid=F09651CC6F1834309426B8D8B6370B81


----------



## Dan203

That falls into the same category as the Roku app we discussed earlier. (i.e. probably not going to happen) TiVo wants you to buy a Mini, or additional TiVo, for streaming to other TVs.

Dan


----------



## cherry ghost

bradleys said:


> Dave...
> 
> I am pretty sure I know the answer - but It is worth the question...
> 
> If I have a home movie or other video on my media library (something other then a .tivo file), can I move the video to my Premier and then sideload it to the tablet?
> 
> Any restrictions on non .tivo files I guess is the real question.





davezatz said:


> Good question, and I don't know the answer. I know things like the podcast downloads and Amazon videos won't come over, but I would assume video we moved over would be seen as any other "normal" recording. I'll check in with a beta tester I know and reply if/when I learn anything further.


Might have to do with how you transfer to your TiVo. When I push non .tivo shows from my PC to my TiVo they're copy protected, but when I pull them they're not.


----------



## Dan203

Just ordered one. They made me read the email to verify I actually go it. I just read them what Dave posted on his site and they said that was OK. 

Dan


----------



## Rebate_King

why are some folks sweating this? It will be available for everyone else just a day later. And if you can wait a few weeks, you may find it for less at amazon. 

Using the TiVo slide remote as an example. I think that first went on the market for $90. Its been selling at amazon for a year now for $39.

I think I'll wait till the holidays and this thing will probably sell for well under $100 by then.


----------



## Fofer

Rebate_King said:


> why are some folks sweating this? It will be available for everyone else just a day later. And if you can wait a few weeks, you may find it for less at amazon.


Some people have been waiting a long time for it, are really excited about it, want to be amongst the first to be able to receive and use it... more than they care about saving $40.


----------



## Dan203

Rebate_King said:


> why are some folks sweating this? It will be available for everyone else just a day later. And if you can wait a few weeks, you may find it for less at amazon.


I considered that but I've been waiting for this for a while now, and my excitement overtook logic. I have a very specific use case for it and I just want to start using it ASAP.

Dan


----------



## jmpage2

Rebate_King said:


> why are some folks sweating this? It will be available for everyone else just a day later. And if you can wait a few weeks, you may find it for less at amazon.
> 
> Using the TiVo slide remote as an example. I think that first went on the market for $90. Its been selling at amazon for a year now for $39.
> 
> I think I'll wait till the holidays and this thing will probably sell for well under $100 by then.


Some of us will get well more than $40 of utility out of the unit over the next 90 days while you wait for a price drop.

Will it be available within a week or two for $10-$20 less than the price to pre-order? Sure it will... but, the nice thing about getting it early is the entertainment factor. Considering that I pay over thirty bucks to be entertained by a 90 minute movie I think I am okay with paying MSRP on a really cool new bit of tech that will entertain me for far longer.


----------



## stoli412

SWFan said:


> That would kind of suck due to bandwidth issues. You'll be streaming wirelessly to your iPad, then streaming wireless out from your iPad to your Apple TV. It would be better if Tivo just had an Apple TV app.
> 
> Unless this thing downloads to your iPad/iPhone before being able to watch the show. I haven't read all the details on this device so it may work that way and thus you wouldn't be trying to push/pull data simultaneously over one wifi connection.


That's not typically how AirPlay works. The iPad sets up the connection with the Apple TV and the source directly and then just operates as a control device. (Unless you're doing AirPlay Mirroring, which is a continuous connection.)


----------



## aaronwt

jrtroo said:


> Thanks. Great I can stick it in my basement out of the way, but annoying that I'll finally have to move my router to get a decent wifi signal to my detached garage!


Get an Access Point and leave your router in place.


----------



## mattack

Fofer said:


> But then can't you rip it off that DVD-RAM and do whatever you want with it?


I guess so, but what will read a DVD-RAM "filesystem" and get a raw mpeg2 file off of it, or convert it to standard DVD-R?


----------



## mattack

aaronwt said:


> So is the stream sending HD content to the mobile device or a lower resolution of the HD content.?


Since presumably they don't have a software-based MPEG-2 player on iOS (can you say 'suck all my battery' and not even be fast enough?), this device is reencoding the videos to be iOS specific. (I'm guessing MPEG 4?) Specific resolutions and formats that have direct iOS support.


----------



## mattack

bradleys said:


> The Stream is LAN Connected - no wifi and it doesn't need to be. Hook it up directy to your router.
> *IT DOES NOT NEED TO BE NEAR EITHER A TIVO OR A TV!*


Wait, how do you start up sideloads then? I thought it would be connected to a TV and then you effectively use a Tivo UI to convert recordings to the connected iPad..


----------



## Fofer

mattack said:


> Wait, how do you start up sideloads then? I thought it would be connected to a TV and then you effectively use a Tivo UI to convert recordings to the connected iPad..


No. You control it all from the iPad.


----------



## crxssi

mattack said:


> Since presumably they don't have a software-based MPEG-2 player on iOS (can you say 'suck all my battery' and not even be fast enough?), this device is reencoding the videos to be iOS specific. (I'm guessing MPEG 4?) Specific resolutions and formats that have direct iOS support.


No. It is not IOS specific. MPEG4 is MPEG4 (H.264 + AAC in an MPEG4 container). Although it will be encoding to typically supported resolutions and bitrates for most mobile devices (including, of course, the ipad and iphone). There are software MPEG-2 players on Android (and apps that will play just about anything). But like you said, because it is not hardware assisted/accelerated, they have to use the CPU a LOT and it will wipe the battery pretty quickly.


----------



## ort

So I'm getting confused about the setup of this thing.

Here's my setup.

My main TiVo (a premiere) is upstairs connected via a TiVo wireless dongle. This is the TiVo I want to be able to stream from.

My wireless router and modem are downstairs hooked up to another TiVo (TiVo HD).

Am I screwed here?

I don't really want to move my router upstairs or switch the two TiVos.

I also don't really feel like dealing with the hassle of setting up a MoCa network or whatever it's called. I have enough damn boxes hooked up to these things. At some point enough is enough. As cool as it would be to stream to my phone or iPad, it's just not worth a lot of hassle.

And a second question, if I got a second wifi router and used it as a network extender, could I hardwire the Stream into the second wifi router?


----------



## jmpage2

TiVo is insisting that your premiere be on either wired Ethernet or MOCA. They say that wireless on the TiVo won't be supported. 

You can plug the Stream box in anywhere in the house that you want (any Ethernet connection on the same network) and theoretically it would work, but TiVo is pretty insistent that your premiere be on a wired connection.


----------



## Dan203

ort said:


> So I'm getting confused about the setup of this thing.
> 
> Here's my setup.
> 
> My main TiVo (a premiere) is upstairs connected via a TiVo wireless dongle. This is the TiVo I want to be able to stream from.
> 
> My wireless router and modem are downstairs hooked up to another TiVo (TiVo HD).
> 
> Am I screwed here?
> 
> I don't really want to move my router upstairs or switch the two TiVos.
> 
> I also don't really feel like dealing with the hassle of setting up a MoCa network or whatever it's called. I have enough damn boxes hooked up to these things. At some point enough is enough. As cool as it would be to stream to my phone or iPad, it's just not worth a lot of hassle.
> 
> And a second question, if I got a second wifi router and used it as a network extender, could I hardwire the Stream into the second wifi router?


OK wireless is not officially supported, but you can hook it up easily and see for yourself if it works. All you have to do is connect the Stream box downstairs directly to the wireless router via Ethernet. My guess is that it'll probably work fine provided you only stream one show at a time. (I think it supports streaming up to 4 shows at once on a wired network)

Dan


----------



## Dan203

mattack said:


> Wait, how do you start up sideloads then? I thought it would be connected to a TV and then you effectively use a Tivo UI to convert recordings to the connected iPad..


The Stream is just a middle man. It has no interface of it's own, no remote and no video outputs. It's controlled exclusively by the iPad via the network. The only reason it's necessary at all is because the iPad can't play the native MPEG-2 format TiVos record in. So the Stream sits between the TiVo and the iPad on the network and acts as a translator, converting the MPEG-2 stream from the TiVo into an H.264 stream the iPad can actually play.

My understanding is that a future hardware revision (Series 5?) will have this ability baked in and the iPad will be able to stream directly from the TiVo without the middle man. But until then the Stream is a way to add that ability to current generation Premieres.

Dan


----------



## tivoknucklehead

Bright House has told me I will not be able to download copyright protected shows to my ipad, just like current situation with Tivo to go to my PC. Tivo sales rep said most should be good to download, but I am guessing the Tivo rep is wrong. Just pre-ordered, should I cancel, since that is the only reason I am getting one?


----------



## sbiller

tivoknucklehead said:


> Bright House has told me I will not be able to download copyright protected shows to my ipad, just like current situation with Tivo to go to my PC. Tivo sales rep said most should be good to download, but I am guessing the Tivo rep is wrong. Just pre-ordered, should I cancel, since that is the only reason I am getting one?


On Bright House and Time Warner Cable everything but the local channels is locked down. If downloading/sideloading is the only reason you are buying the Stream than it will be disappointing. I do believe there is a chance the BHN and TWC may change their position at some point in the future but that is just speculation. Its also possible that the other cable operators may reverse their decision and decide to further lock-down their content.


----------



## tivoknucklehead

sbiller said:


> On Bright House and Time Warner Cable everything but the local channels is locked down. If downloading/sideloading is the only reason you are buying the Stream than it will be disappointing. I do believe there is a chance the BHN and TWC may change their position at some point in the future but that is just speculation. Its also possible that the other cable operators may reverse their decision and decide to further lock-down their content.


ugh, just cancelled my order based on your response, thanks, that's what I was afraid of

such a waste


----------



## Dan203

Yes side loading via the Stream will have the exact same limitations as TiVoToGo. You'll be able to Stream anything though, even if it's protected. 

Dan


----------



## gtrogue

It would be nice if the would revamp TiVo Desktop or supply a Mac and PC app that used the Stream for streaming and transcoding. Probably not going to happen though since that could solve the problem of getting content to other TV's without having to purchase another box from TiVo.


----------



## jcthorne

mattack said:


> I guess so, but what will read a DVD-RAM "filesystem" and get a raw mpeg2 file off of it, or convert it to standard DVD-R?


DVD Fab


----------



## ort

Dan203 said:


> OK wireless is not officially supported, but you can hook it up easily and see for yourself if it works. All you have to do is connect the Stream box downstairs directly to the wireless router via Ethernet. My guess is that it'll probably work fine provided you only stream one show at a time. (I think it supports streaming up to 4 shows at once on a wired network)
> 
> Dan


So it doesn't need to be hooked into the TiVo it's streaming from? The show has to get streamed down to the Stream Box, converted and then streamed out to my iPad? That seems... strange to me.

I think I'll wait and see how this plays out once a lot of people try to do these things.

I don't want to spend the $130 only to have it not work exactly as expected.

Thanks for the info!


----------



## bradleys

ort said:


> So it doesn't need to be hooked into the TiVo it's streaming from? The show has to get streamed down to the Stream Box, converted and then streamed out to my iPad? That seems... strange to me.
> 
> I think I'll wait and see how this plays out once a lot of people try to do these things.
> 
> I don't want to spend the $130 only to have it not work exactly as expected.
> 
> Thanks for the info!


Look at it this way... The TiVo and the Stream ARE connected - simply through your Local Area Network...

The TiVo app on your IOS device is also connected (wirelessly) into your LAN.

Currently Premier to Premier streaming works by sending a TiVo stream from TiVo 1 through your network to TiVo 2. Simple

The TiVo Stream Box works the same way. As far as TiVo 1 is concerned the Stream Box is just another Premier on your network. TiVo 1 sends a stream through your network to the Stream box, this device has dedicated hardware that transcodes the stream into the proper format and then sends it on its way to the TiVo app on a mobile device.

Dave Zatz has done a great review of the box if you have any other questions.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-08/tivo-stream-review/


----------



## Dan203

ort said:


> So it doesn't need to be hooked into the TiVo it's streaming from? The show has to get streamed down to the Stream Box, converted and then streamed out to my iPad? That seems... strange to me.


The way it works is actually better then requiring it to be connected directly to the TiVo because one Stream can actually be used with multiple TiVos. Provided you had enough iPads and Premiere units you could actually stream 3 different shows from 3 different TiVos to 3 different iPads all at the same time. If the device were dedicated to a single TiVo then you'd have to buy one Stream for each TiVo on your network.

Dan


----------



## sbiller

Dan203 said:


> The way it works is actually better then requiring it to be connected directly to the TiVo because one Stream can actually be used with multiple TiVos. Provided you had enough iPads and Premiere units you could actually stream 3 different shows from 3 different TiVos to 3 different iPads all at the same time. If the device were dedicated to a single TiVo then you'd have to buy one Stream for each TiVo on your network.
> 
> Dan


+1 :up:


----------



## tivoknucklehead

Dan203 said:


> Yes side loading via the Stream will have the exact same limitations as TiVoToGo. You'll be able to Stream anything though, even if it's protected.
> 
> Dan


I really , really want to be able to download copyrighted shows to my ipad to take on long flights for my personal use, then delete them. I don't understand why Bright House and TWC block this, they could DRM it somehow I would think to prevent illegal retransmission.

all this old way of thinking does is force people to use torrents that really don't want to do that kind of stuff


----------



## smbaker

tivoknucklehead said:


> I don't understand why Bright House and TWC block this, they could DRM it somehow I would think to prevent illegal retransmission.


Because hitting things with a very big hammer requires little effort or skill, and it really doesn't matter if you occasionally smash someone else's thumb in the process.


----------



## Dan203

tivoknucklehead said:


> I really , really want to be able to download copyrighted shows to my ipad to take on long flights for my personal use, then delete them. I don't understand why Bright House and TWC block this, they could DRM it somehow I would think to prevent illegal retransmission.
> 
> all this old way of thinking does is force people to use torrents that really don't want to do that kind of stuff


It's not entirely Bright House or TWCs fault. The CableCARD rules were designed by a consortium of companies in the cable industry, all of whom agreed to include the CCI bit and force developers of CableCARD equipment to adhere to it. Bright House and TWC use it excessively, but even the cable companies that don't use it across the board still use it whenever the channel provider requests it. For example in most areas the premium channels and PPV are protected even when the rest of the channels are not. Even FIOS, who had avoided using the CCI bit completely, had to start using it a few weeks ago for HBO.

Now it's possible TiVo might be able to get around the CCI bit by moving, rather then copying, shows between devices. However they'd probably have to use better protection for their TTG format then what they're using now or or the cable companies would take issue.

Dan


----------



## tivoknucklehead

Dan203 said:


> It's not entirely Bright House or TWCs fault. The CableCARD rules were designed by a consortium of companies in the cable industry, all of whom agreed to include the CCI bit and force developers of CableCARD equipment to adhere to it. Bright House and TWC use it excessively, but even the cable companies that don't use it across the board still use it whenever the channel provider requests it. For example in most areas the premium channels and PPV are protected even when the rest of the channels are not. Even FIOS, who had avoided using the CCI bit completely, had to start using it a few weeks ago for HBO.
> 
> Now it's possible TiVo might be able to get around the CCI bit by moving, rather then copying, shows between devices. However they'd probably have to use better protection for their TTG format then what they're using now or or the cable companies would take issue.
> 
> Dan


90% of my recorded Tivo shows cannot be transferred to my PC using Tivo to Go because I have Bright House. I can't believe other cable companies (besides TWC) are anywhere close to that %


----------



## sbiller

tivoknucklehead said:


> 90% of my recorded Tivo shows cannot be transferred to my PC using Tivo to Go because I have Bright House. I can't believe other cable companies (besides TWC) are anywhere close to that %


http://www.missingremote.com/forums/cable-provider-copy-protection-switched-digital-video-and-self-install-status-master-list


----------



## ort

Dan203 said:


> The way it works is actually better then requiring it to be connected directly to the TiVo because one Stream can actually be used with multiple TiVos. Provided you had enough iPads and Premiere units you could actually stream 3 different shows from 3 different TiVos to 3 different iPads all at the same time. If the device were dedicated to a single TiVo then you'd have to buy one Stream for each TiVo on your network.
> 
> Dan


Well, sweet then...

Let me just clarify.

I can hook up a TiVo Stream to my modem and wireless router in my basement, and have it stream shows from my upstairs TiVo Premiere in another room?

That's the setup?


----------



## bradleys

ort said:


> Well, sweet then...
> 
> Let me just clarify.
> 
> I can hook up a TiVo Stream to my modem and wireless router in my basement, and have it stream shows from my upstairs TiVo Premiere in another room?
> 
> That's the setup?


That is correct...


----------



## bradleys

tivoknucklehead said:


> I really , really want to be able to download copyrighted shows to my ipad to take on long flights for my personal use, then delete them. I don't understand why Bright House and TWC block this, they could DRM it somehow I would think to prevent illegal retransmission.
> 
> all this old way of thinking does is force people to use torrents that really don't want to do that kind of stuff


Consider that you can take movies that you have archived from DVD's and push them TiVo - at that point it is easy to load them onto your IOS device.

Not as fully functional as you might want, but still a lot of value.


----------



## jmpage2

There's no motive for premium providers to disable the copy flag. They don't care if you have a TiVo and are a legitimate subscriber of their services. They don't want you to have a side-loaded copy of their content PERIOD. If you want to watch their so called premium content on your mobile device they want to lock you in to watching it with their own application, which of course they fully control.

As to providers who simply flip the bit on all programming, I would say they either believe they are covering their own asses with this shameful move, or, they are simply lazy.


----------



## innocentfreak

bradleys said:


> Consider that you can take movies that you have archived from DVD's and push them TiVo - at that point it is easy to load them onto your IOS device.
> 
> Not as fully functional as you might want, but still a lot of value.


I don't know if that will work. I thought any content sent to the TiVos is automatically flagged. I know in the past some PyTiVo pushes were blocked but not sure if pulls are affected the same way.


----------



## Dan203

innocentfreak said:


> I don't know if that will work. I thought any content sent to the TiVos is automatically flagged. I know in the past some PyTiVo pushes were blocked but not sure if pulls are affected the same way.


I believe that pushes are always flagged but pulls are not. Since DVDs are already MPEG-2 you can pull them to a TiVo without recoding, so there is no advantage to pushing.

Although if you want to recode a movies for your iPad there are much easier ways to do it.

Dan


----------



## bradleys

innocentfreak said:


> I don't know if that will work. I thought any content sent to the TiVos is automatically flagged. I know in the past some PyTiVo pushes were blocked but not sure if pulls are affected the same way.


I do not think so... I have never had a problem moving videos around and I definately do not see the CCI Bit icon. What format do you archive your videos in? All my rips are a standard single file MPEG2

I will double check tonight and report back.

NOTE: I usually pull my vidoes using the TiVo to browse my video library on my Media Server. However, from time to time I will also push the video using pyTiVo mobile UI. I will test both methods tonight.


----------



## bradleys

Dan203 said:


> I believe that pushes are always flagged but pulls are not. Since DVDs are already MPEG-2 you can pull them to a TiVo without recoding, so there is no advantage to pushing.
> 
> Although if you want to recode a movies for your iPad there are much easier ways to do it.
> 
> Dan


Easier? I don't know. I have found it to be such a pain in the backside that I don't do it anymore. I spent hours playing with different tools and trying to get the resolution just right - all I ever end up with is jumpy video and out of sync audio - blech...

I am sure the right mix will get it right, but I am not sure I would call it easier...

Step 1: Browse my video library from my TiVo and find a movie or two I want to take on my upcoming trip - initiate a transfer 
Step 2: Browse my NPL on the iPAD for the movies I just transferred - initiate the transfer - done!

Now if the iPad app could see my PyTiVo video library - NIRVANA!!!!


----------



## crxssi

ort said:


> So it doesn't need to be hooked into the TiVo it's streaming from? The show has to get streamed down to the Stream Box, converted and then streamed out to my iPad? That seems... strange to me.


Why is that strange? That is the whole purpose of the Stream device. Mobile devices can't play MPEG2 in hardware. TiVo Premiere doesn't have a dedicated hardware chip to transcode the recorded MPEG2 into H264. That is why the Stream was made.


----------



## crxssi

Dan203 said:


> Provided you had enough iPads and Premiere units you could actually stream 3 different shows from 3 different TiVos to 3 different iPads all at the same time.


It is actually quite an impressive piece of hardware that can transcode three high-bitrate 1080i streams at the same time, in realtime.


----------



## ort

crxssi said:


> Why is that strange? That is the whole purpose of the Stream device. Mobile devices can't play MPEG2 in hardware. TiVo Premiere doesn't have a dedicated hardware chip to transcode the recorded MPEG2 into H264. That is why the Stream was made.


It seems strange to me since the video is actually being streamed twice. My wireless router has to send all of the data from my TiVo... to the Stream and then to my iPhone.

I mean, it's not really that weird, it's just that after hearing all these reports of how it has to be hardwired in, MoCa networks, etc... it got a little confusing... and seeing that the answer is so simple, and yet requires double streaming of all video, seems a little odd to me.


----------



## Dan203

That's why wireless is not officially supported. Because it'll also be using the wireless network to stream the recoded video to the iPad it will really push the limits of the wireless network. This is why I suggested that it'll likely only work if you do one stream at a time. If you tried to do the full 3 streams it's capable of your wireless network probably couldn't handle it.

But in any case it's all just network traffic, so if you've got the bandwidth then you can wire it up however you want.

Dan


----------



## Dan203

crxssi said:


> It is actually quite an impressive piece of hardware that can transcode three high-bitrate 1080i streams at the same time, in realtime.


I agree. Not too many years ago transcoding just one HD stream in realtime required a chip costing thousands of dollars. (I actually research some cards that did this for a client like 5-6 years ago and they were like $3,500 each)

Dan


----------



## Dan203

tivoknucklehead said:


> 90% of my recorded Tivo shows cannot be transferred to my PC using Tivo to Go because I have Bright House. I can't believe other cable companies (besides TWC) are anywhere close to that %


No, but pretty much all of them protect at least the Premium channels now. Bright House and TWC abuse the flag, but all of them use it. This is what finally forced TiVo into implementing streaming. Use of the CCI bit was breaking MRV.

Dan


----------



## Fofer

bradleys said:


> Now if the iPad app could see my PyTiVo video library - NIRVANA!!!!


Why not just point AirVideo at the same directory?

http://www.inmethod.com/air-video


----------



## Dan203

I think he was looking for the side loading capability

Dan


----------



## innocentfreak

Dan203 said:


> I believe that pushes are always flagged but pulls are not. Since DVDs are already MPEG-2 you can pull them to a TiVo without recoding, so there is no advantage to pushing.
> 
> Although if you want to recode a movies for your iPad there are much easier ways to do it.
> 
> Dan


Gotcha. I always push since I queue up couple episodes at once via the web interface via my iPad while I am watching something.


----------



## Dan203

What would really be cool is if TiVo updated TiVo Desktop to be an MRS source. The you could stream anything from your PC library directly to your TiVo/iPad or side load it on the iPad via the Stream. It would likely have to go through two recodes for the iPad though since the PC would have to convert it to MPEG-2 to make it TiVo compatible and then the Stream would have to convert it to H.264. However I doubt anyone would really see a significant loss of quality.

Dan


----------



## bradleys

Fofer said:


> Why not just point AirVideo at the same directory?
> 
> http://www.inmethod.com/air-video


I can't tell you how much time and energy i have spent trying to get Airvideo to work properly... I have my media library on a Media Smart server and it really bogs down trying to transcode and the quality is terrible. Don't even consider realtime transcoding!!!. I have also tried it from the family desktop, but more often then not it ends up getting interrupted.

I actually considered building a dedicated machine just to transcode and stream videos - you have no idea how many hours and how many tools I have used and tried!

And one more video that I spend an hour transcoding just to have the audio out of sync I will pull out what is left of my hair!

Easy? I don't think so...

A dedicated set and forget solution? Yeah baby!!!


----------



## bradleys

Dan203 said:


> I believe that pushes are always flagged but pulls are not. Since DVDs are already MPEG-2 you can pull them to a TiVo without recoding, so there is no advantage to pushing.
> 
> Although if you want to recode a movies for your iPad there are much easier ways to do it.
> 
> Dan


Dan you are correct! Pulling via the TiVo the video come over open and clear, pushing with pytivo the video came over copy protected...

I never noticed that before.


----------



## cherry ghost

bradleys said:


> Dan you are correct! Pulling via the TiVo the video come over open and clear, pushing with pytivo the video came over copy protected...
> 
> I never noticed that before.


Pretty much what I said yesterday

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9257184#post9257184

No folders when you pull, but that doesn't really matter in this case


----------



## generaltso

Has anyone's Stream shipped yet? Maybe they're just planning to ship them all out on Tuesday with overnight shipping? My order says ground shipping, but there's no way it will get to me by the 5th via Ground if it hasn't shipped yet.


----------



## aaronwt

Dan203 said:


> What would really be cool is if TiVo updated TiVo Desktop to be an MRS source. The you could stream anything from your PC library directly to your TiVo/iPad or side load it on the iPad via the Stream. It would likely have to go through two recodes for the iPad though since the PC would have to convert it to MPEG-2 to make it TiVo compatible and then the Stream would have to convert it to H.264. However I doubt anyone would really see a significant loss of quality.
> 
> Dan


The TiVo can handle H.264 decoding. Otherwise those cable channels that use H.264 would not work on a TiVo.


----------



## crxssi

aaronwt said:


> The TiVo can handle H.264 decoding. Otherwise those cable channels that use H.264 would not work on a TiVo.


It can handle/decode it, and has the hardware decoder built-in, but only in certain containers, at certain profiles, at certain bitrates and with certain audio. I have actually had a bad time getting anything to play natively on the Premiere, PyTiVo ends up transcoding pretty much everything.


----------



## tivoknucklehead

Dan203 said:


> No, but pretty much all of them protect at least the Premium channels now. Bright House and TWC abuse the flag, but all of them use it. This is what finally forced TiVo into implementing streaming. Use of the CCI bit was breaking MRV.
> 
> Dan


I could easily live without transferring HBO and the like but would like my regular network shows to be transferred and now few can be on Bright House and its silly


----------



## gtrogue

generaltso said:


> Has anyone's Stream shipped yet? Maybe they're just planning to ship them all out on Tuesday with overnight shipping? My order says ground shipping, but there's no way it will get to me by the 5th via Ground if it hasn't shipped yet.


The TiVo sales guy told me the shipping would be upgraded to overnight for free. I assumed they would send all the initial shipments on Tuesday with overnight shipping.


----------



## gtrogue

tivoknucklehead said:


> I could easily live without transferring HBO and the like but would like my regular network shows to be transferred and now few can be on Bright House and its silly


Me too. I just pirate HBO.


----------



## generaltso

gtrogue said:


> The TiVo sales guy told me the shipping would be upgraded to overnight for free. I assumed they would send all the initial shipments on Tuesday with overnight shipping.


Did your confirmation email list overnight shipping? Mine says ground.


----------



## crxssi

gtrogue said:


> Me too. I just pirate HBO.


DRM: Only punishes the honest people.


----------



## gtrogue

generaltso said:


> Did your confirmation email list overnight shipping? Mine says ground.


Ground. The sales guy told me it would say that but it would be upgraded when it ships.


----------



## Fofer

bradleys said:


> I can't tell you how much time and energy i have spent trying to get Airvideo to work properly... I have my media library on a Media Smart server and it really bogs down trying to transcode and the quality is terrible. Don't even consider realtime transcoding!!!. I have also tried it from the family desktop, but more often then not it ends up getting interrupted.
> 
> I actually considered building a dedicated machine just to transcode and stream videos - you have no idea how many hours and how many tools I have used and tried!
> 
> And one more video that I spend an hour transcoding just to have the audio out of sync I will pull out what is left of my hair!
> 
> Easy? I don't think so...
> 
> A dedicated set and forget solution? Yeah baby!!!


Huh. I've had the opposite experience with Air Video Server (running on a slightly older iMac that doubles as an office computer.)

I can easily stream to my iPad (and MacBooks) at home and from the road. No hiccups, good A/V quality, no sync issues. Realtime encoding works fine for me too. No interruptions.

Maybe my upstream is higher?


----------



## bradleys

Fofer said:


> Huh. I've had the opposite experience with Air Video Server (running on a slightly older iMac that doubles as an office computer.)
> 
> I can easily stream to my iPad (and MacBooks) at home and from the road. No hiccups, good A/V quality, no sync issues. Realtime encoding works fine for me too. No interruptions.
> 
> Maybe my upstream is higher?


I am talking about using it just within my own network!

My HPMediaSmart server is getting pretty long in the tooth, but it really was never designed for that purpose anyway. With a paltry AMD 1.8 GHZ Sempron CPU and 512MB of Ram, it struggles miserably to transcode video...

And while the trusty old family desktop has more horsepower, it still isn't anything to write home about and more importantly it is shared - so counting on it to transcode through an entire movie without interuption isn't reasonable either.

Bottom line, you need a decent third party system to make any solution work properly... I was considering building a system that I could dedicate for the purpose, now I do not have too.


----------



## sbiller

http://www.techofthehub.com/2012/08/unboxing-tivo-stream.html


----------



## turbobozz

bradleys said:


> I am talking about using it just within my own network!
> 
> My HPMediaSmart server is getting pretty long in the tooth, but it really was never designed for that purpose anyway. With a paltry AMD 1.8 GHZ Sempron CPU and 512MB of Ram, it struggles miserably to transcode video...
> 
> And while the trusty old family desktop has more horsepower, it still isn't anything to write home about and more importantly it is shared - so counting on it to transcode through an entire movie without interuption isn't reasonable either.
> 
> Bottom line, you need a decent third party system to make any solution work properly... I was considering building a system that I could dedicate for the purpose, now I do not have too.


You could upgrade the intel based HP MSS CPU and RAM yourself... Is that not possible with the AMD based ones?


----------



## bradleys

turbobozz said:


> You could upgrade the intel based HP MSS CPU and RAM yourself... Is that not possible with the AMD based ones?


Yes, it can be upgraded a little - but when I upgrade I am looking at the HP ProLiant Microserver... And now that Microsoft has cancelled the media server product - I need to research small business server as an option.


----------



## aaronwt

Even with the upgrade it is still underpowered. I have one of those AMD units sitting in my closet from when I upgraded to the later model with the INtel CPU. I wish I had sold it a while ago now since with the Intel HP MSS and two unRAID boxes I really have no use for the older one any more.


----------



## jbaum

Just ordered mine. Tax in NYC is a killer, but I'm so done with waiting for iTivo to work with Mountain Lion or trying to work with KMTTG.


----------



## drosoph

What version of the Tivo App is necessary for the Stream? When will it be released?


----------



## crxssi

drosoph said:


> What version of the Tivo App is necessary for the Stream? When will it be released?


We don't know that right now.


----------



## yukit

bradleys said:


> I am talking about using it just within my own network!
> 
> My HPMediaSmart server is getting pretty long in the tooth, but it really was never designed for that purpose anyway. With a paltry AMD 1.8 GHZ Sempron CPU and 512MB of Ram, it struggles miserably to transcode video...
> 
> And while the trusty old family desktop has more horsepower, it still isn't anything to write home about and more importantly it is shared - so counting on it to transcode through an entire movie without interuption isn't reasonable either.
> 
> Bottom line, you need a decent third party system to make any solution work properly... I was considering building a system that I could dedicate for the purpose, now I do not have too.


I have one of those HP Media Server. I have upgraded it with 2GB & faster version of AMD CPU, but streaming was a struggle still. I have a dual core CPU to put in, but I have not bothered to flash the BIOS to make it recognize the CPU id.

I just use a PC running pyTivo to stream from my media servers (I have HP MediaSmart, ReadyNAS & JBOD NAS server)


----------



## ronaldheft

drosoph said:


> What version of the Tivo App is necessary for the Stream? When will it be released?


I forget where I read this, but the stream will require a new version of the app that will be released on Wednesday.


----------



## magnus

sbiller said:


> http://www.techofthehub.com/2012/08/unboxing-tivo-stream.html


I wonder why the TiVo Stream would have a TSN on it. Maybe they were planning on charging monthly for it at one point.


----------



## gtrogue

crxssi said:


> DRM: Only punishes the honest people.


Or turns honest people into pirates.


----------



## crxssi

gtrogue said:


> Or turns honest people into pirates.


Good one, I like it.


----------



## smbaker

magnus said:


> I wonder why the TiVo Stream would have a TSN on it. Maybe they were planning on charging monthly for it at one point.


Is a TSN functionally the same as a serial number? If so, it makes sense for every device to have a serial number, regardless of whether or not service is charged for it.

It also might be the identifier that it uses when setting up the protocol from Tivo to Stream to iPad app.


----------



## Bighouse

Anyone see an official TiVo product spec sheet yet?
I want one for streaming to my iPad but was hoping that it also had an hdmi output for the borrowed fourth tuner on my elite so I could route that to a second HDMI input on my tv...I like using pip and pbp.

Also, does the borrowing of the fourth tuner make that tuner unavailable for recordings? Does that fourth tuner become dedicated solely to the Stream device or is it released when not streaming for four tuner recording?


----------



## bradleys

Bighouse said:


> Anyone see an official TiVo product spec sheet yet?
> I want one for streaming to my iPad but was hoping that it also had an hdmi output for the borrowed fourth tuner on my elite so I could route that to a second HDMI input on my tv...I like using pip and pbp.
> 
> Also, does the borrowing of the fourth tuner make that tuner unavailable for recordings? Does that fourth tuner become dedicated solely to the Stream device or is it released when not streaming for four tuner recording?


If I read your post correctly, you want to use the Stream as a dummy IP box similar to the functionality offered by the Mini. The quick answer, it does not offer that functionality.

It only has an Ethernet connection and a power input - no HDMI. It does not connect directly to either the TiVo or a tv.

It also does not co-op a dedicated tuner, however if you want to stream "live" tv, it will initiate a recording and streams that recording. In that case it obviously uses a tuner....


----------



## ronaldheft

Bighouse said:


> Anyone see an official TiVo product spec sheet yet?
> I want one for streaming to my iPad but was hoping that it also had an hdmi output for the borrowed fourth tuner on my elite so I could route that to a second HDMI input on my tv...I like using pip and pbp.
> 
> Also, does the borrowing of the fourth tuner make that tuner unavailable for recordings? Does that fourth tuner become dedicated solely to the Stream device or is it released when not streaming for four tuner recording?


I think you may be mixing up the Stream and the Mini. The stream only handles streaming to mobile devices. The unit has a power connector and Ethernet, that's it.

As far as tuner availability, right now the TiVo Stream does not take a tuner. It will only stream / transfer already recorded content. However, the iOS app does have the ability to watch live TV, but it's kind of a workaround. The app will setup up the live program to record, then stream the recording in real time. It's the same as if you recorded the program on the TiVo itself and watched it live. When the program is over, the tuner is free again.

What we don't know right now is how the TiVo Mini will handle tuners, and from what I've read, current beta units take 0-2 tuners for itself. If there is any logic for freeing tuners when the non-pooled tuners are unavailable remains unknown at this time.


----------



## generaltso

magnus said:


> I wonder why the TiVo Stream would have a TSN on it. Maybe they were planning on charging monthly for it at one point.


It probably needs to be added to your account with a TSN so that it has a common MAK for streaming.


----------



## fredct

crxssi said:


> We don't know that right now.


I assume we don't know this about the app either, but I have one burning question... Will the app allow you to use a video output (hdmi, component) to a TV or other device? For instance if you have a TV without a TiVo, could you play to it from video out from an iPad streaming from a stream? Or if you have a downloaded video and play it on a tv when you're not home?

Many video apps disable the ability unfortunately (including hbo and showtime, even via appleTV video mirroring).


----------



## generaltso

fredct said:


> I assume we don't know this about the app either, but I have one burning question... Will the app allow you to use a video output (hdmi, component) to a TV or other device? For instance if you have a TV without a TiVo, could you play to it from video out from an iPad streaming from a stream? Or if you have a downloaded video and play it on a tv when you're not home?
> 
> Many video apps disable the ability unfortunately (including hbo and showtime, even via appleTV video mirroring).


No, this won't work. Dave Zatz already tried it. You'll need a TiVo Mini for that.


----------



## Fofer

But there is hope for jailbreakers, as tweaks for enabling AirPlay on other similar apps (like HBO GO, DirecTV, and more) already exist.


----------



## Bighouse

ronaldheft said:


> I think you may be mixing up the Stream and the Mini. The stream only handles streaming to mobile devices. The unit has a power connector and Ethernet, that's it....


I am indeed! Thanks for setting me straight. In reading about both in their respective threads I do have a question.

It seems that Tivo may be licensing their software to run on an Apple TV device? Does anyone think that, if Apple were to open up an SDK for the Apple TV (3) that Tivo might have an app ready to roll out to purchasers that effectively makes an Apple TV perform as a Tivo Mini? I wouldn't mind paying a higher than average app price for that functionality!


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

They haven't said anything about Apple TV support at this point. (Or Roku support, in case anybody is wondering.)

For Tivo-to-AppleTV to work, customers would need a Stream to convert the video since it doesn't support MPEG2 natively. It's not elegant, but wouldn't be impossible either. In theory it could happen one day. But either way we'd need new hardware, and it won't likely happen in the short term.


----------



## ronaldheft

Bighouse said:


> I am indeed! Thanks for setting me straight. In reading about both in their respective threads I do have a question.
> 
> It seems that Tivo may be licensing their software to run on an Apple TV device? Does anyone think that, if Apple were to open up an SDK for the Apple TV (3) that Tivo might have an app ready to roll out to purchasers that effectively makes an Apple TV perform as a Tivo Mini? I wouldn't mind paying a higher than average app price for that functionality!


It's always a possibility, and I'm sure TiVo would take a look at the Apple TV SDK if one were released, but at this time there are no indications of apps for Apple TV. Being an iOS developer myself, if Apple were to announce apps for Apple TV at next week's event, I think it would be a minimum of two months until apps would be available for download. Factoring in TiVo's development pace, I think a year would be a minimum reasonable timeframe for TiVo to release an app. While I would love an app over the Mini, it's just not going to happen anytime soon.


----------



## Joe Siegler

Anyone know if this thing works only on a local Network? 

Will you be able to use it to watch shows from a TV say at my brother's house on the other side of town? Can you use it for any device hooked up to your TiVo account (and presumably the MAK key), or is it limited to what's on your local network?


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Joe Siegler said:


> Anyone know if this thing works only on a local Network?


The streaming only works locally. You can download (copy) pre-recorded stuff to your iDevice if it's not copy-protected and take it with you, but the streaming function is limited to your own local network.


----------



## Dan203

magnus said:


> I wonder why the TiVo Stream would have a TSN on it. Maybe they were planning on charging monthly for it at one point.


TSNs are used to link TiVos on the same account and allow streaming. Since the Stream is essentially just pretending to be another TiVo on your network for the purposes of streaming it would make sense that they would require a TSN to properly trick the other TiVos into allowing them to initiate the stream.

Once it goes through the stream the file coming out the other side seems to be similar to a TiVoToGo recording requiring your account MAK to decrypt.

Dan


----------



## smbaker

Should there be shipping status on this yet? I see 'order placed' on my account, but no shipping status or tracking number yet.


----------



## generaltso

smbaker said:


> Should there be shipping status on this yet? I see 'order placed' on my account, but no shipping status or tracking number yet.


Same here. The contest email said that orders could be placed until noon today for arrival on 9/5. I'm assuming (and hoping) that means that ALL orders will ship out today via overnight shipping for delivery tomorrow.


----------



## bradleys

smbaker said:


> Should there be shipping status on this yet? I see 'order placed' on my account, but no shipping status or tracking number yet.


Same for me... Were you an "actual winner" or did you just pre-order like a lot of us did?

After asking for my email address the CSR made a quick comment that my order would be shipped with general availability. I am sure they surpased the 600 pre order units (basically overnight shipping) very quickly and have been spinning to reconcile the list.

If an actual winner sees that his unit has shipped, that would prove my theory that they at least tried to make this work as planned! 



generaltso said:


> Same here. The contest email said that orders could be placed until noon today for arrival on 9/5. I'm assuming (and hoping) that means that ALL orders will ship out today via overnight shipping for delivery tomorrow.


To be fair to TiVo, they are only obligated to send the units for actual and true winners of the contest. I do not expect to get mine tomorrow - I am sure that is not what you meant by *ALL*. You indicated earlier in this thread that you also were not a contest winner.


----------



## mikebaratta

Was there any mention as to whether the existing Tivo iOS app would be updated to stream from the "Stream" or if it was a separate app?


----------



## generaltso

bradleys said:


> To be fair to TiVo, they are only obligated to send the units for actual and true winners of the contest. I do not expect to get mine tomorrow - I am sure that is not what you meant by *ALL*. You indicated earlier in this thread that you also were not a contest winner.


I think you're giving them too much credit. I don't think they really know who the "winners" are. My guess is that they will ship ALL the orders via overnight, or none via overnight. If they were concerned about non-winners placing orders, they would have included some kind of redemption code in the winner emails.

When I placed the order, the TiVo rep didn't ask me if I won. I just said I wanted to pre-order the stream, and she said that it would be delivered on 9/5. That sounds like an obligation to me. That doesn't mean I'm holding my breath.


----------



## drebbe

mikebaratta said:


> Was there any mention as to whether the existing Tivo iOS app would be updated to stream from the "Stream" or if it was a separate app?


Same app with an update ; see Dave Zatz's review


> An (upcoming) update to the already highly functional and attractive TiVo iOS app enables Stream connectivity and playback.


----------



## mikebaratta

thanks drebbe.

Once it works with android it would be great to see if the android app will run on a GoogleTv. A $99 revue running the Tivo app + Tivo Stream seems like a much better setup than a Tivo Stream + a Tivo Mini. IMHO.


----------



## bradleys

generaltso said:


> I think you're giving them too much credit. I don't think they really know who the "winners" are. My guess is that they will ship ALL the orders via overnight, or none via overnight. If they were concerned about non-winners placing orders, they would have included some kind of redemption code in the winner emails.
> 
> When I placed the order, the TiVo rep didn't ask me if I won. I just said I wanted to pre-order the stream, and she said that it would be delivered on 9/5. That sounds like an obligation to me. That doesn't mean I'm holding my breath.


But does it mean that if you do not get yours delivered tomorrow that you will come on this forum complaining that TiVo didn't meet some obiligation?

I am not picking on "you" in particular - but I can just see this tempest brewing... I was pretty quick to get my order in - and for me in particular, they did ask me for my email address...

Does that mean they are going to check it against a winners list? I do not know, but if the competition got out of hand, TiVo could easily check registered account email address' against the winners list. That wouldn't be perfect, but it would get them closer then the wild-west situation they are in now.

We will have to wait and see - I suppose it really depends on how many pre-orders they received. Hundreds? Thousands? Makes a big difference.

I would love to know if an actual winner sees his order as shipped...


----------



## generaltso

bradleys said:


> But does it mean that if you do not get yours delivered tomorrow that you will come on this forum complaining that TiVo didn't meet some obiligation?


No. But I would probably call TiVo and ask why it didn't arrive on the promised day. If they say that it's because I didn't win the sweepstakes, I'll say "Okay, thanks."


----------



## bradleys

mikebaratta said:


> thanks drebbe.
> 
> Once it works with android it would be great to see if the android app will run on a GoogleTv. A $99 revue running the Tivo app + Tivo Stream seems like a much better setup than a Tivo Stream + a Tivo Mini. IMHO.


Intersting thought Mike... Has anyone tried to install the current TiVo app on a GoogleTV yet?


----------



## mikebaratta

I haven't heard of anyone trying but it should be possible. Android apps _should _work as long as they don't *require *certain features.

https://developers.google.com/tv/android/docs/gtv_android_features

Google TV users have had success side-loading many apps. I personally have not tried yet.


----------



## button1066

I'm an 'actual winner' and have not received any information on my unit being shipped. The rep when I ordered it said it would get to me on the 5th bu I haven't heard anything else.

In fact the Tivo website does not show the item as being shipped.

Edit: my credit card has not been charged either

They are leaving things pretty late...


----------



## Dan203

bradleys said:


> Does that mean they are going to check it against a winners list? I do not know, but if the competition got out of hand, TiVo could easily check registered account email address' against the winners list. That wouldn't be perfect, but it would get them closer then the wild-west situation they are in now.


They can't really do that since it's possible that a real winner used a different email address for the contest then they used for their account. There were no provisions in the original contest that said your email had to match the one used for your TiVo account.

My guess is it's going to be first come first serve. The first 600 people who got their orders in will get it tomorrow. Everyone else will have to wait for general availability. (assuming more then 600 people even ordered them)

Honestly I bet it's not even a big deal. Given the price point, the iOS limitation and the fact that most average users don't even know the Stream exists yet I bet they didn't even get 600 orders.

Dan


----------



## bradleys

Dan203 said:


> They can't really do that since it's possible that a real winner used a different email address for the contest then they used for their account. There were no provisions in the original contest that said your email had to match the one used for your TiVo account.
> 
> My guess is it's going to be first come first serve. The first 600 people who got their orders in will get it tomorrow. Everyone else will have to wait for general availability. (assuming more then 600 people even ordered them)
> 
> Honestly I bet it's not even a big deal. Given the price point, the iOS limitation and the fact that most average users don't even know the Stream exists yet I bet they didn't even get 600 orders.
> 
> Dan


If you are correct and they received less then 1000 orders, then I suspect they will just send them all out with what effectivley amounts to a free overnight shipping upgrade. If they received significantly more, then I think you may see them get creative.

Time will tell... In any case, it was a poorly designed contest - they were looking for a social media buzz and it may have turned into a headache.

A simple sequence number on the emails would have avoided these issues.


----------



## generaltso

bradleys said:


> In any case, it was a poorly designed contest - they were looking for a social media buzz and it may have turned into a headache.


You can say that again. Now if the winners of this poorly designed contest don't even end up getting the product before it's generally available, it will really be headache for TiVo. In the end, the only thing that people really "won" was the privilege of paying full price plus shipping to get the product 1 day early. If that doesn't materialize, I think there will be a lot of irate "winners". But I still believe that TiVo will ship out ALL pre-orders today via overnight shipping. With general availability scheduled for 9/6, I can't imagine they don't have the stock for it.


----------



## innocentfreak

http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/04/tivo-stream-transcoder-review/

Engadget's review is up.


----------



## jmpage2

generaltso said:


> You can say that again. Now if the winners of this poorly designed contest don't even end up getting the product before it's generally available, it will really be headache for TiVo. In the end, the only thing that people really "won" was the privilege of paying full price plus shipping to get the product 1 day early. If that doesn't materialize, I think there will be a lot of irate "winners". But I still believe that TiVo will ship out ALL pre-orders today via overnight shipping. With general availability scheduled for 9/6, I can't imagine they don't have the stock for it.


I agree. There is no way that TiVo only did a production run of 600 units. Even if the Stream is simply a holdover until this functionality gets built into a next gen TiVo (which is very likely IMO) they would have had to do a production run in the thousands in order to have adequate supply for the initial demand as well as stocking retail like Best Buy.

I suspect that they will sell these now and then closer to the holidays they will probably offer a bundle that throws a Stream in free with the purchase of a new XL4 TiVo.... then, a hardware refresh next summer that throws the Stream functionality right into the TiVo itself, which is where it should have been from the get-go.


----------



## drebbe

My order history now says, "Processing Order" and no longer gives me the option to cancel the order. The charge now shows up on my credit card as pending. I was not a "winner" (at least in TiVo's eyes).


----------



## gtrogue

Keep in mind that if they are shipping Fedex overnight they have until at least 8:30 PM PDT to get them to Fedex to make today's shipment. That's 11:30 PM here on the east coast.


BTW, my order status now says "Processing Order". Earlier it was just "Order Placed".


----------



## generaltso

drebbe said:


> My order history now says, "Processing Order" and no longer gives me the option to cancel the order. The charge now shows up on my credit card as pending. I was not a "winner" (at least in TiVo's eyes).


Same here.


----------



## smbaker

drebbe said:


> My order history now says, "Processing Order" and no longer gives me the option to cancel the order. The charge now shows up on my credit card as pending. I was not a "winner" (at least in TiVo's eyes).


Mine has also gone to 'processing'. This happened sometime between when I posted earlier this morning and now.


----------



## bradleys

smbaker said:


> Mine has also gone to 'processing'. This happened sometime between when I posted earlier this morning and now.


Mine is as well...


----------



## button1066

bradleys said:


> Mine is as well...


My status is also updated. Looks like I'll be getting my new gadget tomorrow as planned.


----------



## generaltso

button1066 said:


> Looks like I'll be getting my new gadget tomorrow as planned.


Assuming they really are shipping them overnight. I'm assuming they are.


----------



## Dan203

My status has also changed. I'm so excited! 

Dan


----------



## shfawaz

Just got a UPS Quantam Delivery notice indicating the shipment will be here tomorrow overnight. Woo Hoo! Can't wait. I was NOT a winner and placed my order Saturday.


----------



## crxssi

mikebaratta said:


> thanks drebbe.
> 
> Once it works with android it would be great to see if the android app will run on a GoogleTv. A $99 revue running the Tivo app + Tivo Stream seems like a much better setup than a Tivo Stream + a Tivo Mini. IMHO.


Oooh, that is a very good idea. Never even thought of that before. Of course, we don't know what resolutions will be supported in the Android app(s)... and it could be a bummer if you are stuck with 720P tablet-type resolution on your big 52" Google-TV.


----------



## moyekj

crxssi said:


> Oooh, that is a very good idea. Never even thought of that before. Of course, we don't know what resolutions will be supported in the Android app(s)... and it could be a bummer if you are stuck with 720P tablet-type resolution on your big 52" Google-TV.


 Seems like the TiVo Mini would be much better suited for displaying on a large TV (using MRS and no transcoding involved).


----------



## gtrogue

I got my Stream shipping notice. I was not a "contest" winner.


----------



## generaltso

gtrogue said:


> I got my Stream shipping notice. I was not a "contest" winner.


Same here.


----------



## Surrealone

Good news! Your TiVo® order has shipped and is on its way.
I feel better already


----------



## spinboy

Scheduled Delivery:
Wednesday, 09/05/2012, by 3:00 P.M.

Wooooot!!!


----------



## morac

http://tivo.com/stream - Complete details coming September 6th.


----------



## jbaum

Just got a UPS email, saying the label was created. But it says ground? Scheduled delivery 9/7. Ordered Saturday, was assured it was next day.


----------



## generaltso

jbaum said:


> Just got a UPS email, saying the label was created. But it says ground? Scheduled delivery 9/7. Ordered Saturday, was assured it was next day.


Ugh. Sounds like a mistake. It's probably worth calling TiVo to complain. Maybe they'll at least refund the shipping cost.

Mine's already left Texas via UPS Next Day Air Saver.


----------



## jbaum

generaltso said:


> Ugh. Sounds like a mistake. It's probably worth calling TiVo to complain. Maybe they'll at least refund the shipping cost.
> 
> Mine's already left Texas via UPS Next Day Air Saver.


Now I'm confused, just used the online chat to ask for the shipping refund and was told "Lucas: We will automatically upgrade the shipping to ensure you receive the TiVo Stream by September 5, 2012.".

UPS says it shipped from Fort Worth ground for delivery Friday.

I bet UPS is right.


----------



## bradleys

jbaum said:


> Now I'm confused, just used the online chat to ask for the shipping refund and was told "Lucas: We will automatically upgrade the shipping to ensure you receive the TiVo Stream by September 5, 2012.".
> 
> UPS says it shipped from Fort Worth ground for delivery Friday.
> 
> I bet UPS is right.


Shoot - if it is leaving Fort Worth I can just go pick it up... 

Mine was shipped next day air saver.


----------



## crxssi

moyekj said:


> Seems like the TiVo Mini would be much better suited for displaying on a large TV (using MRS and no transcoding involved).


Yeah, but if you already had a Google TV device, it would mean you could have your Stream for use with portable devices AND use it on a remote TV too. Less equipment, less expense (and more integration).


----------



## crxssi

morac said:


> http://tivo.com/stream - Complete details coming September 6th.


"Now take your shows *anywhere* life takes you"

As long as your mobile devices are not Android.
As long as you stay home (no remote network access).
As long as your shows are not copy protected by the cable company (no download).

I hate "marketing speak"


----------



## smbaker

bradleys said:


> Mine was shipped next day air saver.


Same here. My notice came through a few hours after shipping notices were reported here. Must have taken them a while to get all the streams shipped.


----------



## Dan203

Mine is also next day air saver and scheduled for delivery tomorrow. Still no update for TiVo app on iPad though. Without the app the stream box is going to pretty much be useless, so I hope they update it befor it gets here. 

Dan


----------



## BlackBetty

Exciting day today for the "winners".


----------



## shfawaz

So where is the updated app? No update in the iTunes App store as of the post at 7:45. TiVo stream is all but worthless without it.


----------



## gtrogue

My shipping status is "Order Processed: Ready for UPS". Been that way since yesterday. Doesn't look like I'll be getting mine today unless UPS tracking is off.


----------



## aaronwt

gtrogue said:


> My shipping status is "Order Processed: Ready for UPS". Been that way since yesterday. Doesn't look like I'll be getting mine today unless UPS tracking is off.


I had a package with UPS earlier this year that showed it was in transit for several weeks. Even though it was delivered in two days from Amazon.


----------



## gtrogue

Yeah. Mine went from order processes to, now, out for delivery.


----------



## Rebate_King

Still no sign of this showing up on Amazon. Figured some reseller would have it listed already. Really curious to see how quickly the price drops. This device really shouldn't cost more than $99.


----------



## spinboy

Rebate_King said:


> Still no sign of this showing up on Amazon. Figured some reseller would have it listed already. Really curious to see how quickly the price drops. This device really shouldn't cost more than $99.


I believe general availability is set for tomorrow. Mine is out for delivery!

http://www.tivo.com/products/tivo-stream.html?WT.z_links=stream_vanity


----------



## Durkis007

New to the forum..... Cant wait for the Stream. We have two Premier boxes.

One thing that may be a deal breaker for me is the not being able to stream outside the home. 

Here are my questions....

1) can we just be able to transfer the shows to the ipad before we leave the house ?

2) Does anyone think a future software upgrade will enable streaming outside the home ?

Thanks!


----------



## Flojomojo

I wonder if running a VPN tunnel to your home network would enable remote streaming? I'm just curious about what's allowed. Quality would suffer, and you'd be consuming mobile data, so in-home sync over wifi makes a lot more sense.


----------



## ShayL

Durkis007 said:


> New to the forum..... Cant wait for the Stream. We have two Premier boxes.
> 
> One thing that may be a deal breaker for me is the not being able to stream outside the home.
> 
> Here are my questions....
> 
> 1) can we just be able to transfer the shows to the ipad before we leave the house ?
> 
> Thanks!


As long as copy protection was not set you can.


----------



## skywalkm

Mine just got delivered a couple of hours ago (or at least I ASSUME it's from TiVo...as my wife sent me a pic of the box). I love doing the unboxing so I won't have her open it, but it's 2 pounds and from "FWN Fullfillment Center" in Ft. Worth, which is as I understand it is where TiVo ships from. BTW, I was a "winner".

Oddly enough, on TiVo.com, it still shows as "Processing Order", and _STILL _no update to the app (not that I care YET...since I'm still at work). That being said, there is Apple in the way, so there probably isn't much TiVo can do about it. Can't wait to get home and try it out!!


----------



## button1066

Durkis007 said:


> New to the forum..... Cant wait for the Stream. We have two Premier boxes.
> 
> One thing that may be a deal breaker for me is the not being able to stream outside the home.
> 
> Here are my questions....
> 
> 1) can we just be able to transfer the shows to the ipad before we leave the house ?
> 
> 2) Does anyone think a future software upgrade will enable streaming outside the home ?
> 
> Thanks!


You're in the same situation as me - new to the forum and have two premieres.

As ShayL said, there is apparently sideloading available as long as the show is not copy protected. Personally I think this is way better than streaming away from home over wifi or 3g or whatever because it seems the quality and speed would be so much better.

I'm now looking forward to the first real world reports of people getting their units up and running.


----------



## Rebate_King

Still no update in itunes for the TiVo app. There are going to be a lot of angry "winners" if that app isn't updated soon.


----------



## morac

Rebate_King said:


> Still no update in itunes for the TiVo app. There are going to be a lot of angry "winners" if that app isn't updated soon.


Assuming TiVo already submitted the update, it's up to Apple to approve it.


----------



## skywalkm

Chatting with TiVo support now (Corina). They said that it should be in the App Store no later than *tomorrow*. In double checking with "upper level management" (after I pushed about how annoyed the "winners" will be), she reported back that, "The update should be out either tonight or early tomorrow."

I know it's just one day, but I was soooo looking forward to this today. Oh well. I'm an Apple fanboy, but I'll put the blame on their shoulders, EXCEPT...why couldn't TiVo have had the update out _ahead _of time. No harm, right? Sigh


----------



## ronaldheft

TiVo probably submitted the app weeks ago for Apple's approval, so it's most likely already approved. They probably just set a release date of tomorrow, so unless someone logs into their App Store account and changes that date, it won't be available until 3:00am EST tomorrow.


----------



## Dan203

It's really stupid that the app hasn't been updated yet! They knew they were doing this contest and they knew the Stream was useless without it, they should have submitted the app update weeks ago just in case. :down:

Dan


----------



## skywalkm

ronaldheft said:


> TiVo probably submitted the app weeks ago for Apple's approval, so it's most likely already approved. They probably just set a release date of tomorrow, so unless someone logs into their App Store account and changes that date, it won't be available until 3:00am EST tomorrow.


Maybe if enough of us complained to TiVo, they'll push Apple harder. That being said, A) I'm not sure that would matter and B) it's only one day...in the grand scheme of things...


----------



## smbaker

Dan203 said:


> It's really stupid that the app hasn't been updated yet! They knew they were doing this contest and they knew the Stream was useless without it, they should have submitted the app update weeks ago just in case. :down:


This whole contest has to be one of the stupider promotions Tivo has ever had.

1) You win the opportunity to buy something for full price a day before everyone else.

2) Once you've "won" it, you can't even use it because the app isn't released.

3) They didn't even bother to check if the "winners" were "winners", nor did they bother to see if the Facebook requirements were met.

4) They overnight ship it to make sure it arrives before it can be used.



Skywalkm said:


> Maybe if enough of us complained to TiVo, they'll push Apple harder. That being said, A) I'm not sure that would matter and B) it's only one day...in the grand scheme of things...


I agree, it doesn't matter to me. If the contest had been to receive '2-day shipping' on the 4th, I'd be just as happy as I am now. However, it's all very chuckle-worthy at how poorly it was handled.


----------



## NotVeryWitty

Dan203 said:


> It's really stupid that the app hasn't been updated yet! They knew they were doing this contest and they knew the Stream was useless without it, they should have submitted the app update weeks ago just in case. :down:


I agree. My Stream arrived an hour ago, but I'm not going to waste my time setting it up until I can actually do something with it.

It's not the end of the world having to wait a day, but this is just so typical of Tivo marketing...

Oh well, I guess I'll have to watch tonight's football game on the TV instead of on my iPad in bed.


----------



## ronaldheft

skywalkm said:


> Maybe if enough of us complained to TiVo, they'll push Apple harder. That being said, A) I'm not sure that would matter and B) it's only one day...in the grand scheme of things...


My point was Apple has most likely already approved it. It's up to TiVo to release it. TiVo probably set a release date of tomorrow for the update. If it's going to be released today, someone from TiVo needs to log into their App Store account and change the date. When they change the date, it will be available immediately and not require any action on Apple's part.


----------



## moyekj

smbaker said:


> This whole contest has to be one of the stupider promotions Tivo has ever had.
> 
> 1) You win the opportunity to buy something for full price a day before everyone else.
> 
> 2) Once you've "won" it, you can't even use it because the app isn't released.
> 
> 3) They didn't even bother to check if the "winners" were "winners", nor did they bother to see if the Facebook requirements were met.
> 
> 4) They overnight ship it to make sure it arrives before it can be used.
> 
> I agree, it doesn't matter to me. If the contest had been to receive '2-day shipping' on the 4th, I'd be just as happy as I am now. However, it's all very chuckle-worthy at how poorly it was handled.


 Botching new releases is par for the course for TiVo unfortunately these days, starting with the Premiere. By most accounts the initial release of the "Mini" will also have some stupid initial requirements at launch in order to support Live TV which a lot of people don't care about, so seems to be heading for a rocky launch as well.


----------



## chrislemasters

smbaker said:


> This whole contest has to be one of the stupider promotions Tivo has ever had.


But - it sure got a fair number of people talking (particularly us early adopters/evangelists)! So guess that's a win for the marketing department.


----------



## smbaker

chrislemasters said:


> But - it sure got a fair number of people talking (particularly us early adopters/evangelists)! So guess that's a win for the marketing department.


The Tivo Mini thread got a lot of people talking as well, without some silly contest.

Really, all you need to do is announce the release date, and when orders/pre-orders can be placed and the community here will go wild.


----------



## HiKent

What I find most curious is why no one from TiVo has given an update on the app's availability. I thought TiVo staff now monitored the forums. Did they think no one would notice?

And did anyone else notice that the stream has a fan in it?


----------



## aaronwt

moyekj said:


> Botching new releases is par for the course for TiVo unfortunately these days, starting with the Premiere. By most accounts the initial release of the "Mini" will also have some stupid initial requirements at launch in order to support Live TV which a lot of people don't care about, so seems to be heading for a rocky launch as well.


I just wish they would have launched the mini and the stream at the same time. of course I'm more interested in the mini than the stream. But i can't use the stream anyway until it's available for Android deviecs.


----------



## button1066

skywalkm said:


> Chatting with TiVo support now (Corina). They said that it should be in the App Store no later than *tomorrow*. In double checking with "upper level management" (after I pushed about how annoyed the "winners" will be), she reported back that, "The update should be out either tonight or early tomorrow."
> 
> I know it's just one day, but I was soooo looking forward to this today. Oh well. I'm an Apple fanboy, but I'll put the blame on their shoulders, EXCEPT...why couldn't TiVo have had the update out _ahead _of time. No harm, right? Sigh


This makes paying for overnight shipping seem somewhat of a waste of money.

The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing at TiVo.

Not to mention the fact that, let's face it, the first version of the software won't work properly when it's released anyway. Bottom line is that it's not even worth opening the box that should be waiting for me at home tonight (assuming I don't have to sign for it).


----------



## Beantownbeanie

I just sent a polite note to [email protected] and she said it would be available today.


----------



## generaltso

The whole intent of the silly contest was the people would "win" the opportunity to get the stream 1 day early. If they really don't release the app until the day of general availability, the silly contest becomes even more silly and pointless.


----------



## smbaker

generaltso said:


> ... the silly contest becomes even more silly and pointless.


Where is Fofer when we need him? 

In theory, the 'winners' would still on average able to use their streams earlier than the "losers", by about half a day. A theoretical loser ordering today would on average not receive his stream until half way through the UPS delivery workday tomorrow.

What's going to be really funny is when the app fails miserably, nobody can use it, and it takes weeks/months/years for a version that works right to be released. Then again, the iPad app has a pretty good track record.


----------



## Dan203

Beantownbeanie said:


> I just sent a polite note to [email protected] and she said it would be available today.


I saw your post before you edited and sent my own note as well. I'm glad to hear that our campaign worked out. 

Dan


----------



## skywalkm

ronaldheft said:


> My point was Apple has most likely already approved it. It's up to TiVo to release it. TiVo probably set a release date of tomorrow for the update. If it's going to be released today, someone from TiVo needs to log into their App Store account and change the date. When they change the date, it will be available immediately and not require any action on Apple's part.


I didn't think that's how it works from talking to other developers. That being said, if true, then everyone SHOULD complain to TiVo...make them force the update!


----------



## Dan203

If it really is entirely up to Apple then TiVo should have had the forsight to release the app weeks ago ahead of the hardware release. Trying to time it to match a launch when someone else is ultimately in control is just asking for disaster. 

Dan


----------



## Richard A

The app is UPDATED


----------



## skywalkm

Richard A said:


> The app is UPDATED


Beat me by a minute! Awesome news!!! Can't wait to try it out.


----------



## jrtroo

I think this was mostly a case of having the CSR's message under-promise the availability, just in case. It could have been in nobody's plan to get these units out for people to merely gaze at for 24 hours prior to using.

I also expect that even if both of these products were ready at the same time, TiVo would not coordinate their release so they could get more press. I would.


----------



## NotVeryWitty

Richard A said:


> The app is UPDATED


Same here -- checked it 5 minutes ago, and it wasn't up. Just checked again, and it's there.

Box is plugged in already, so about to give it a try...

Edit: Step 1 -- updating the software on the Stream -- "can take up to 20 minutes".


----------



## gtrogue

Got my Stream.


----------



## Dan203

Yay! Now I just need my Stream to get here. It's out for delivery, but says they have until 3:00pm to deliver it. (only 11:30 right now) Come on UPS!

Dan


----------



## David Platt

The updated app won't work on jailbroken devices.


----------



## Richard A

Start of the setup screen


----------



## NotVeryWitty




----------



## innocentfreak

David Platt said:


> The updated app won't work on jailbroken devices.


Unfortunately yeah, Dave Zatz had that in his post.

Stream Review



> Further, the app will not run on jailbroken devices. I assume this is done to meet CableLabs requirements to protect the content.


----------



## Dan203

David Platt said:


> The updated app won't work on jailbroken devices.


Probably a DRM requirement to prevent capturing of the stream. Remember these things work with flagged recordings too, so they have to ensure the path is secure end to end.

Dan


----------



## bradleys

Very good - updating my iPad now... The Stream should be at the house by the time I get home. 

Very excited to play with it.


----------



## NotVeryWitty

This thing runs hot. No wonder it needs a fan.

System Information page says system temp = 70C.

FWIW, software version says 19.0-01-6.

Tried the closed captioning on a PTI show -- they need to do a little work to make it usable. The captions flash on and off so quickly you can't read them.


----------



## windracer

David Platt said:


> The updated app won't work on jailbroken devices.





Dan203 said:


> Probably a DRM requirement to prevent capturing of the stream. Remember these things work with flagged recordings too, so they have to ensure the path is secure end to end.


Wait, so even if I don't own a Stream, the new app won't run on my jailbroken iPad or iPhone?

_edit:_ to answer my own question: yep. I get a message about "unauthorized modifications detected" and then it just closes.


----------



## Dan203

windracer said:


> _edit:_ to answer my own question: yep. I get a message about "unauthorized modifications detected" and then it just closes.


Ouch! Is there any way to hide the jailbreak from apps like this?

Why is it so easy for the app to detect that the iPad is jailbroken in the first place? Seems like a poor hack if every app can tell it's been done.

Dan


----------



## cherry ghost

xCon might work. If not, it may be able to be added.


----------



## morac

Dan203 said:


> Why is it so easy for the app to detect that the iPad is jailbroken in the first place? Seems like a poor hack if every app can tell it's been done.


Normally an app will attempt to do something that should fail because of iOS security. If it succeeds, that means the device is jailbroken. To get around this another app would have to intercept these calls and return the expected failure.


----------



## overFEDEXed

windracer said:


> Wait, so even if I don't own a Stream, the new app won't run on my jailbroken iPad or iPhone?
> 
> _edit:_ to answer my own question: yep. I get a message about "unauthorized modifications detected" and then it just closes.


Maybe somebody will come up with something like "xcon Alias" from Cydia.

I have CoxTvConnect and it won't run on my jailbroken iPad without it.

I found xcon alias by accident, but I'm glad because I like watching my live cable programs on my iPad 2


----------



## HiKent

Richard A said:


> Start of the setup screen


How did you get this to work? My stream has been hooked up a couple of hours, white LED is solid. I named the stream in my Tivo.com account (where it showed up automatically). I downloaded the new app [v1.9.1(5014)] & can
can control my XL4 just fine. But no "stream" setup when I connect to XL4 & click the settings wheel. When I try to connect to the Stream from the "Box Name" list, I get "not been authorized to accept network-based remote controls".

The XL4 works as a MoCa gateway to second XL4 in another room. The stream is on a gigabit wired network also connected to the XL4 (a couple of switches away -- all gigabit wired, all same subnet, all same DHCP server).

ANy thoughts?

BTW: I find this more troubling that the case of the missing app. Oh well...


----------



## Surrealone

HiKent said:


> How did you get this to work? My stream has been hooked up a couple of hours, white LED is solid. I named the stream in my Tivo.com account (where it showed up automatically). I downloaded the new app [v1.9.1(5014)] & can
> can control my XL4 just fine. But no "stream" setup when I connect to XL4 & click the settings wheel. When I try to connect to the Stream from the "Box Name" list, I get "not been authorized to accept network-based remote controls".
> 
> The XL4 works as a MoCa gateway to second XL4 in another room. The stream is on a gigabit wired network also connected to the XL4 (a couple of switches away -- all gigabit wired, all same subnet, all same DHCP server).
> 
> ANy thoughts?
> 
> BTW: I find this more troubling that the case of the missing app. Oh well...


I'm not a 100% sure I have not got home yet to play with my stream. But you might need to go into the settings menu on tivo and turn on network controls


----------



## NotVeryWitty

HiKent said:


> How did you get this to work? My stream has been hooked up a couple of hours, white LED is solid. I named the stream in my Tivo.com account (where it showed up automatically). I downloaded the new app [v1.9.1(5014)] & can
> can control my XL4 just fine. But no "stream" setup when I connect to XL4 & click the settings wheel. When I try to connect to the Stream from the "Box Name" list, I get "not been authorized to accept network-based remote controls".
> 
> The XL4 works as a MoCa gateway to second XL4 in another room. The stream is on a gigabit wired network also connected to the XL4 (a couple of switches away -- all gigabit wired, all same subnet, all same DHCP server).
> 
> ANy thoughts?
> 
> BTW: I find this more troubling that the case of the missing app. Oh well...


Log into tivo.com, select the "My Tivo" tab, select Device Preferences under My Account, and make sure you've checked "Video Sharing" and "Enable video downloads" for each Tivo. If they were unchecked, it may take a while for it to take effect. If the were already checked, then you've got a different problem.


----------



## HiKent

NotVeryWitty said:


> Log into tivo.com, select the "My Tivo" tab, select Device Preferences under My Account, and make sure you've checked "Video Sharing" and "Enable video downloads" for each Tivo. If they were unchecked, it may take a while for it to take effect. If the were already checked, then you've got a different problem.


I can stream just fine between the XL4s. I can control the XL4s from the TiVo app. There is no sharing setting for the Stream @ tivo.com. Anything else you can think of?


----------



## compnurd

Reboot the Stream?


----------



## NotVeryWitty

HiKent said:


> I can stream just fine between the XL4s. I can control the XL4s from the TiVo app. There is no sharing setting for the Stream @ tivo.com. Anything else you can think of?


Saw this on tivo.com: "On your TiVo DVR, allow the iPad to access your TiVo DVR by turning on the "Network Remote Control" setting. From TiVo Central, select Messages & Settings > Settings > Remote, CableCARD, & Devices > Network Remote Control. "


----------



## Surrealone

Surrealone said:


> I'm not a 100% sure I have not got home yet to play with my stream. But you might need to go into the settings menu on tivo and turn on network controls





NotVeryWitty said:


> Saw this on tivo.com: "On your TiVo DVR, allow the iPad to access your TiVo DVR by turning on the "Network Remote Control" setting. From TiVo Central, select Messages & Settings > Settings > Remote, CableCARD, & Devices > Network Remote Control. "


yes that's what I had seen before


----------



## jrtroo

Did you try to reboot your boxes/iPad/router?


----------



## sbiller

HiKent said:


> How did you get this to work? My stream has been hooked up a couple of hours, white LED is solid. I named the stream in my Tivo.com account (where it showed up automatically). I downloaded the new app [v1.9.1(5014)] & can
> can control my XL4 just fine. But no "stream" setup when I connect to XL4 & click the settings wheel. When I try to connect to the Stream from the "Box Name" list, I get "not been authorized to accept network-based remote controls".
> 
> The XL4 works as a MoCa gateway to second XL4 in another room. The stream is on a gigabit wired network also connected to the XL4 (a couple of switches away -- all gigabit wired, all same subnet, all same DHCP server).
> 
> ANy thoughts?
> 
> BTW: I find this more troubling that the case of the missing app. Oh well...


The App is 2.0?


----------



## morac

HiKent said:


> How did you get this to work? My stream has been hooked up a couple of hours, white LED is solid. I named the stream in my Tivo.com account (where it showed up automatically). *I downloaded the new app [v1.9.1(5014)]* & can
> can control my XL4 just fine. But no "stream" setup when I connect to XL4 & click the settings wheel. When I try to connect to the Stream from the "Box Name" list, I get "not been authorized to accept network-based remote controls".


That's your problem. The new app is v2.0. v1.9.1 is the old app.

Sometimes it takes awhile for Apple to actually push out app updates to all of it's mirror servers so if you try to grab an update, the moment it's released, you might get an old version. Try checking for an update again in the App Store.


----------



## Dan203

That's weird. When I first saw the post that said the app was updated I immediately refreshed my iPad and saw an update. I saw that it was still 1.9.1 with a release date of April, but I thought someone just forgot to change the version number so I updated anyway. Just checked again and now it's offering 2.0. So there must have been some sort of glitch on Apple's side. (saw this a few weeks ago with another app that kept offering an update to the same version over and over)

Dan


----------



## HiKent

sbiller said:


> The App is 2.0?


Bingo. It seems TiVo re-released the *old* app today, before releasing the *new* app. I installed the updated the app, release date Sept 5, I assumed it would be the new app. Sorry for the noise. (And wondering how else they can screw up an app update...)


----------



## morac

HiKent said:


> Bingo. It seems TiVo re-released the *old* app today, before releasing the *new* app. I installed the updated the app, release date Sept 5, I assumed it would be the new app. Sorry for the noise. (And wondering how else they can screw up an app update...)


It's not TiVo it's Apple. Apple tends to show an update being available for an app prior to the app actually being updated. This usually only lasts a few minutes, but I've had this last for over 24 hours for some apps.

In my case, when I went to grab the TiVo 2.0, update on my iPhone I went to read the release notes and they showed the 1.9.1 release notes. I knew this was wrong, so I tapped the update button again and the notes changed to 2.0. I then updated and version 2.0 installed.


----------



## windracer

cherry ghost said:


> xCon might work. If not, it may be able to be added.


Yeah, I already have xCon installed to get around the jailbreak detection in some of my other apps, but it's not working for the new TiVo app. I guess we'll have to wait and see if it can be updated to work around this.


----------



## Dan203

1:00pm and still no UPS. Why is it that UPS always takes their time when I'm anxiously awaiting something? Other times they drop stuff off early in the morning, but not when I'm waiting on something important.

Dan


----------



## David Platt

windracer said:


> Yeah, I already have xCon installed to get around the jailbreak detection in some of my other apps, but it's not working for the new TiVo app. I guess we'll have to wait and see if it can be updated to work around this.


There's instructions on the xCon install page on Cydia for reporting an app you want added. I can't do it right now because I'm on my phone, though.


----------



## smbaker

I just updated. Stream setup has found the stream and is "checking software version".

ETA: ... and now it's up and running and streaming.


----------



## avg99

Wow got my stream 10:30a got it all hooked up and no stream called tech support they told me weren't sure but give it 12 hrs to download new firmware maybe it needed. I told them how un happy the "winners" would be and just got a well give it 12 hrs, I too then email Margaret and told how disappointed I and many others would probably be of not being able to use the stream. Even though I'm not very happy it won't run jailbroken. I'm glad and it's obviously margaret got some real pull and cares about us to get this corrected within a couple hours of the earliest deliveries makes me happy. Stream works great really like it it's for the kids mostly!


----------



## cherry ghost

David Platt said:


> There's instructions on the xCon install page on Cydia for reporting an app you want added. I can't do it right now because I'm on my phone, though.


looks like it's already been reported

https://github.com/n00neimp0rtant/xCon-Issues/issues


----------



## generaltso

My Stream seems to crash every time I try to use any trick play functions. The only way to get it to start streaming again is to reboot it. Anyone else?


----------



## crxssi

moyekj said:


> Botching new releases is par for the course for TiVo unfortunately these days, starting with the Premiere. By most accounts the initial release of the "Mini" will also have some stupid initial requirements at launch in order to support Live TV which a lot of people don't care about, so seems to be heading for a rocky launch as well.


Yep. Let's just shut out 99.9% of prospective customers at launch.

Different topic, though.


----------



## overFEDEXed

cherry ghost said:


> looks like it's already been reported
> 
> https://github.com/n00neimp0rtant/xCon-Issues/issues


I emailed him about an issue that I had with xcon and CoxTV connect. He emailed me back pretty quick with some helpful info.

Turns out it was something that Cox had done on their end. It works great now.

Also, I went ahead a bought the xCon Alias. I was glad to donate some money because this program really helped me out.


----------



## jmpage2

Got home and the Stream was on the doorstep. Setup was a snap, I simply plugged it into my network, downloaded the TiVo app, and the app discovered the Stream and did the rest.. took about 10 minutes for the Stream to update software and auto-configure itself.

Watched a couple of things so far and the quality looks quite good. Trick play controls working very well too... It is very responsive... makes my Sling app on the iPad look slow as molasses by comparison and the quality on the Sling is not as good either.


----------



## Philmatic

cherry ghost said:


> xCon might work. If not, it may be able to be added.





windracer said:


> Yeah, I already have xCon installed to get around the jailbreak detection in some of my other apps, but it's not working for the new TiVo app. I guess we'll have to wait and see if it can be updated to work around this.


I sent a note to the xCon developer, hopefully he/she can add the TiVo app pretty quickly.


----------



## falken98

windracer said:


> Wait, so even if I don't own a Stream, the new app won't run on my jailbroken iPad or iPhone?
> 
> _edit:_ to answer my own question: yep. I get a message about "unauthorized modifications detected" and then it just closes.


Thanks for letting us know. I know not to update my app, and not buy a stream.


----------



## techbri

I pre-ordered the Stream and it shipped yesterday via UPS Next Day Air. Unfortunately, it went to the Louisville, KY sort facility last night and got left there in error so it's rescheduled for delivery tomorrow. #$%^


----------



## bradleys

avg99 said:


> Wow got my stream 10:30a got it all hooked up and no stream called tech support they told me weren't sure but give it 12 hrs to download new firmware maybe it needed. I told them how un happy the "winners" would be and just got a well give it 12 hrs, I too then email Margaret and told how disappointed I and many others would probably be of not being able to use the stream. Even though I'm not very happy it won't run jailbroken. I'm glad and it's obviously margaret got some real pull and cares about us to get this corrected within a couple hours of the earliest deliveries makes me happy. Stream works great really like it it's for the kids mostly!


My TiVo seemed to have a problem finding the Stream at first as well. I waited a little while but it just didn't seem to find it. Rebooted the router - still no joy... On a lark, I opened my router console and pinged the Stream. Once I did that the TiVo app found the device right away. I am not sure if it was the "ping" or just enough time has passed, but everything seems to be working great now.


----------



## bradleys

crxssi said:


> Yep. Let's just shut out 99.9% of prospective customers at launch.
> 
> Different topic, though.


I think your stats are a little off - especially since tablets are really the target devices, phones are an added value. But I am sure Android will be available soon.


----------



## compnurd

bradleys said:


> I think your stats are a little off - especially since tablets are really the target devices, phones are an added value. But I am sure Android will be available soon.


I agree. The Android App will come.


----------



## jmpage2

So, for grins I plugged my Kill-A-Watt into the Stream to check on power consumption. It is 7-8 watts standby. When you are streaming it can rise to 9 watts, with one stream anyway.

This tells me it's not particularly efficient, as it's sucking quite a lot of juice when it is sitting there doing nothing.

Also, it might not be a bad idea to throw this guy on a UPS if you have one in the vicinity of your Stream. It took a bit of screwing around with the app and stream to get it to re-connect after having killed power to the unit temporarily. Recovery does not look to be very graceful.


----------



## Dan203

Mine finally came. I've got it hooked up and it's updating the software now.

First thing I noticed is that it's kind of loud. The fan is a bit whiny. Anyone else hear it? Or did I get a loud one?

Edit: Noise seems to be some sort of vibration. If I turn it on it's side it's a lot quieter

Dan


----------



## triftraf

Anybody know when/if the Stream will be available at retailers?


----------



## windracer

windracer said:


> Wait, so even if I don't own a Stream, the new app won't run on my jailbroken iPad or iPhone?
> 
> _edit:_ to answer my own question: yep. I get a message about "unauthorized modifications detected" and then it just closes.


I was able to roll back to the previous version (v1.9.1) to get the app working again on my jailbroken devices. Guess I'll wait and see if the xCon guys can come up with a fix for us.


----------



## Surrealone

Ok that was easy from open the box to first stream 20min max


----------



## spinboy

Can't stream live shows. Keep getting an error that there are already four streams active. Um, no there aren't. WTF.


----------



## bradleys

So, I moved a ripped movie from from my server to the Premier and then from the Premier to the IOS app. A couple of observations...

The movie transfers to the iPad with a title of _*To Be Announced*_. It shows on the NPL on both the iPad and the TiVo with the FILE NAME, however, it seems to be using the metadata name to drive the naming on the "On iPad" file list. Very disapointing...

You can begin a transfer to the ipad while the transfer to the TiVo is still in progress. The is actually not that suprising considering how it works with live TV, but it is nice and a time saver.

I wonder if we can convince TiVo to change the Mobile Playing List (MPL) to pull file name as opposed to the metadata name, similar to the NPL

So far, I love the device!


----------



## rick123

I am really upset that TiVo has decided to enter a fight with the jailbreak community. They sold this device to me under false pretences and I will be returning it within the 30 day return period if the issue is not resolved.

I have faith in the jailbreak community, they love a challenge and will respond successfully IMO.

Ask yourself why? Why has TiVo the company suddenly decided to be jailbreak police? There will soon be all kinds of negative commentary on the web as the tech community does not like this kind of sneaky behavior. TiVo has always encouraged and even worked with the hacking community as it allowed its own hardware to be hacked and upgraded. Why?

What possible reason would TiVo the company suddenly decide to kiss up to Apple the company and all the negatives that will come with this action against the tech community.

You heard it here first. TiVo has tipped its hand. Apple and TiVo are in talks for Apple to acquire TiVo. This is the only reason I can come up with. Apple would do this if Apple owned TiVo. TiVo as an independent company has absolutely no other incentive to do this!

I have confidence in the jailbreak community. Let's get this fixed!


----------



## sbiller

rick123 said:


> I am really upset that TiVo has decided to enter a fight with the jailbreak community. They sold this device to me under false pretences and I will be returning it within the 30 day return period if the issue is not resolved.
> 
> I have faith in the jailbreak community, they love a challenge and will respond successfully IMO.
> 
> Ask yourself why? Why has TiVo the company suddenly decided to be jailbreak police? There will soon be all kinds of negative commentary on the web as the tech community does not like this kind of sneaky behavior. TiVo has always encouraged and even worked with the hacking community as it allowed its own hardware to be hacked and upgraded. Why?
> 
> What possible reason would TiVo the company suddenly decide to kiss up to Apple the company and all the negatives that will come with this action against the tech community.
> 
> You heard it here first. TiVo has tipped its hand. Apple and TiVo are in talks for Apple to acquire TiVo. This is the only reason I can come up with. Apple would do this if Apple owned TiVo. TiVo as an independent company has absolutely no other incentive to do this!
> 
> I have confidence in the jailbreak community. Let's get this fixed!


This is a Cablelabs requirement. Its out of TiVo's control.


----------



## jmpage2

spinboy said:


> Can't stream live shows. Keep getting an error that there are already four streams active. Um, no there aren't. WTF.


Is it even suppose to work with live shows? AFAIK it's only been announced as supporting watching recordings or side-loading recordings, not live TV.


----------



## jmpage2

rick123 said:


> I am really upset that TiVo has decided to enter a fight with the jailbreak community. They sold this device to me under false pretences and I will be returning it within the 30 day return period if the issue is not resolved.


I rather doubt that TiVo is "picking a fight with the jailbreak community". They are required to secure apps like this, because it is required by content providers and others.

While I'm no fan of content providers (I actually think they are kind of scummy), they have every reason to insist that apps like this are tightly locked down. Everyone that I _personally_ know who has a Jailbroken iOS device rips off most of their apps/content anyway.

The fact that it personally irks you, when you are using your device in the manner you are (Jailbroken) almost definitely does not enter into the equation from TiVos perspective.

Here's a thought, why don't you email TiVo Margaret and ask her why TiVo is "picking a fight with the jailbreak community". That ought to be good for a laugh.

Do everyone a favor and simply return the device for a refund.


----------



## moyekj

jmpage2 said:


> Is it even suppose to work with live shows? AFAIK it's only been announced as supporting watching recordings or side-loading recordings, not live TV.


 For "Live TV" it's supposed to start a recording on the host TiVo if a tuner is available and then start streaming the recording. I guess that means every time the current show ends you will have to request "Live TV" again and repeat the process. Kind of a kludge, but then again what TiVo owner watches live TV anyway?


----------



## gtrogue

generaltso said:


> My Stream seems to crash every time I try to use any trick play functions. The only way to get it to start streaming again is to reboot it. Anyone else?


Looks like if you try to trick play too soon and get ahead of the buffer the Stream crashes.
For me if I wait a couple of minutes the trick play works fine.


----------



## jmpage2

moyekj said:


> For "Live TV" it's supposed to start a recording on the host TiVo if a tuner is available and then start streaming the recording. I guess that means every time the current show ends you will have to request "Live TV" again and repeat the process. Kind of a kludge, but then again what TiVo owner watches live TV anyway?


Yeah, I almost never watch Live TV. My wife does (frighteningly enough).


----------



## generaltso

gtrogue said:


> Looks like if you try to trick play too soon and get ahead of the buffer the Stream crashes.
> For me if I wait a couple of minutes the trick play works fine.


I tried letting it stream for 10 minutes before hitting a trick play button. Same result. Even the pause button causes it to crash.


----------



## spinboy

I prefer to watch the news live, silly me.


----------



## Dan203

I've done a bit of testing and it seems to work pretty good. It's really loud though. Sounds like when the video card in my laptop is running full speed. 

Just for kicks I tried accessing it via the http page that regular TiVos have but it throws up an access forbidden message.  I hope eventually TiVo updates TiVo Desktop to support the stream so you can transfer things directly in the H.264 format. Would save a lot of recoding on my PC if I could just transfer in H.264 and edit out the commercials real quick using VideoReDo.

Dan


----------



## Surrealone

Just for kicks I transfered a 1080p video from PC to S4 and it works great and looks amazing. I can already tell this is going to be good stuff. WTG TiVo


----------



## gtrogue

generaltso said:


> I tried letting it stream for 10 minutes before hitting a trick play button. Same result. Even the pause button causes it to crash.


Unplug the Stream and let it sit for a few seconds and then plug it back in. Then kill the app and power off the iOS device and restart it.
The previous steps seemed to have fixed my problem.


----------



## generaltso

gtrogue said:


> Unplug the Stream and let it sit for a few seconds and then plug it back in. Then kill the app and power off the iOS device and restart it.
> The previous steps seemed to have fixed my problem.


I tried that, but no change in behavior.


----------



## button1066

My cynicism was completely unjustified. I bought a stream so I can stop using tivotogo to convert my shows to put them in iTunes to stream to my iPad. Anyone who does that knows how annoying it is. The stream works like a dream. Streaming is excellent and the sideloading is perfect.

Only problem: why do you have to swipe the screen towards the right to skip 30 secs ahead? It's the opposite to every other app. Minor quibble, I love the stream.


----------



## crxssi

bradleys said:


> I think your stats are a little off - especially since tablets are really the target devices, phones are an added value. But I am sure Android will be available soon.


No, I was responding to a post about the Mini only working with a 4 tuner Premiere.


----------



## David Platt

I can't get mine to work at all. It's been plugged in for several hours, and the white light is still blinking and I get a 'TiVo Stream cannot be set up' error message when I try to set it up through the app. I've rebooted my router, tried switching out network cables, and nothing seems to work.


----------



## Surrealone

did you check you tivo.com account to make sure it is activated?


----------



## Surrealone

Also another thing I did right away before I even turned my tivo stream on was rename it on my Tivo.com account


----------



## bradleys

crxssi said:


> No, I was responding to a post about the Mini only working with a 4 tuner Premiere.


Then you are more then correct... Sorry, I misunderstood.


----------



## DaveMachin

Did anyone try this when their Tivo is connected wirelessly (using the TiVo wifi dongle)? I know it's "not supported" - just wondered if it worked or not.


----------



## bradleys

Well I do think I will use this quite a bit. I have tried about every use case I can think of and it really works great... I even moved off the app during a side load and once I came back it was able to reconnect and complete the move easily - very nice.

My only complaint is using metadata to populate the Show name for content stored on ythe iPad. Makes it really annoying moving a home video or ripped movie as it shows up named "To be announced"...


----------



## gtrogue

generaltso said:


> I tried that, but no change in behavior.


Have you tried deleting the app off of the iPhone/iPad/iPod and reinstalling it?


----------



## Dan203

DaveMachin said:


> Did anyone try this when their Tivo is connected wirelessly (using the TiVo wifi dongle)? I know it's "not supported" - just wondered if it worked or not.


Mine is going through a HomePlug network, which is slower then 802.11n, and it works fine. Not a direct analog, but I'm betting it'll work OK if you're just streaming one show at a time.

Dan


----------



## DavidTigerFan

Just to confirm, this cannot stream to the Internet a la sling box?


----------



## Dan203

DavidTigerFan said:


> Just to confirm, this cannot stream to the Internet a la sling box?


No local streaming only. Unless you setup some sort of VPN so your iPad appears as if it's on the local network. However for that to work you'd need a pretty good upload speed on your internet connection because it can not dynamically adjust the quality to match bandwidth. It just streams in the format it streams and you need enough bandwidth to handle it.

Dan


----------



## jfh3

The TiVo.com/stream page is now active and the home page has been updated to feature the Stream. Slightly misleading, as the target is currently iOS devices only (at least for now)


----------



## sbiller

TechOfTheHub presents his hands-on review.

http://www.techofthehub.com/2012/09/tivo-stream-hands-on-review.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TechOfTheHubBlog+%28Tech+of+the+Hub+Blog%29


----------



## NotVeryWitty

Used my Stream to watch the (time-shifted) football game on my iPad last night. In general, I am very pleased with the experience. The video quality is excellent, I only had a couple momentary pauses while watching the video (could very well have been a glitch in the original video material), and it just came across as a very professional implementation for a 1.0 release of something this complicated.

I did have a few crashes of the app, mostly when exiting the video viewing screen. Restarting the app was quick, and it picked up easily.

Using the right swipe to do 30-second skip and left swipe to do 8-second rewind is really nice. Someone mentioned above that they thought the right-swipe for 30-second skip was backwards -- I disagree, you just swipe in the direction you want to go on the time bar.

Nice job Tivo!!


----------



## DavidTigerFan

Dan203 said:


> No local streaming only. Unless you setup some sort of VPN so your iPad appears as if it's on the local network. However for that to work you'd need a pretty good upload speed on your internet connection because it can not dynamically adjust the quality to match bandwidth. It just streams in the format it streams and you need enough bandwidth to handle it.
> 
> Dan


Perhaps you know, but I have a 15MB upload....you think that'd work assuming I can get a vpn going?


----------



## generaltso

gtrogue said:


> Have you tried deleting the app off of the iPhone/iPad/iPod and reinstalling it?


Yup, no change. I really wish these things were available in Best Buy already so that I could just go buy a new one. I ordered a new one yesterday from TiVo, and was told it would still ship via overnight, so I'm hoping I'll have a new one tomorrow. If it ships ground, I'll probably have to wait a week. Maybe they'll be in Best Buy by then.


----------



## miller890

A question for those that already have a Tivo Stream and multiple Tivos. 

From the Tivo IOS app, is it possible to initiate a transfer from another Tivo (a non premier) to a Tivo premier and watch it via Tivo Stream? 

The premier has most of the shows the family watches. The other S3 Tivos have shows that I would watch via Tivo Stream on the Tivo app. I know Tivo Stream can not communicate to S3 Tivos, but I want to route the show via the S4 to Tivo Stream.


----------



## SugarBowl

Does best buy have them yet? It's not on their website.


----------



## compnurd

SugarBowl said:


> Does best buy have them yet? It's not on their website.


the product just came out today so i doubt best buy has it yet


----------



## sbiller

compnurd said:


> the product just came out today so i doubt best buy has it yet


TiVo PR released today indicated, "coming soon to most Best Buy and Magnolia Home Theater stores".

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tivo-launches-tivo-stream-enabling-120000424.html

PS) this is the first time in a long-time I've seen TiVoGuard mentioned.


----------



## jmpage2

miller890 said:


> A question for those that already have a Tivo Stream and multiple Tivos.
> 
> From the Tivo IOS app, is it possible to initiate a transfer from another Tivo (a non premier) to a Tivo premier and watch it via Tivo Stream?
> 
> The premier has most of the shows the family watches. The other S3 Tivos have shows that I would watch via Tivo Stream on the Tivo app. I know Tivo Stream can not communicate to S3 Tivos, but I want to route the show via the S4 to Tivo Stream.


It does not do that. All it can do is stream or sideload a show TO an iDevice, not another TiVo.


----------



## morac

jmpage2 said:


> It does not do that. All it can do is stream or sideload a show TO an iDevice, not another TiVo.


Reread what he's asking. He's asking if you can transfer a show from a S3 to a Premiere and then from there stream it to the Stream. Based on what I've read, I believe the answer is yes.


----------



## jmpage2

morac said:


> Reread what he's asking. He's asking if you can transfer a show from a S3 to a Premiere and then from there stream it to the Stream. Based on what I've read, I believe the answer is yes.


He said something about initiating the transfer from the iOS app, in other words using it to move the recording and then have the Stream start up with it. I'm pretty sure that's all not gonna work.


----------



## bradleys

morac said:


> Reread what he's asking. He's asking if you can transfer a show from a S3 to a Premiere and then from there stream it to the Stream. Based on what I've read, I believe the answer is yes.


The answer is absolutely yes - I tried that yesterday. You can also transfer a movie from an external library to the Premier and initiate a stream. Also both the stream and sideload can be intiated while the transfer is still active.

So in other words you can be MRV'ing a video from an S3 and sideloading it to your TiVo at the same time!


----------



## Aero 1

will someone please try it with a VPN outside the network!!!


----------



## DavidTigerFan

Aero 1 said:


> will someone please try it with a VPN outside the network!!!


+1


----------



## skywalkm

Wow. Really impressed with its streaming ability. Pretty flawless quality. I've had no trick play issues (although I haven't watched much). I need to do more testing, but after setting up my wife's phone, it kicked me out on my phone (maybe it was just because of the initial setup on a 2nd device).

Now to the problem. I tried downloading at best quality and standard. Absolutely horrible. In the best quality, there are "shifted video lines" really distorting the video. On standard quality, it is simply more "shifted video lines". I can't imagine every watching downloaded shows like that. I'll try again tonight. I'm not sure what "best" really means. Ideally, there'd be 3 choices: completely uncompressed video, slightly compressed and highly compressed. I know it would be large, but I'd like the choice.

Does anyone else have the "shifted video lines" problem with downloads?


----------



## miller890

bradleys said:


> The answer is absolutely yes - I tried that yesterday. You can also transfer a movie from an external library to the Premier and initiate a stream. Also both the stream and sideload can be intiated while the transfer is still active.
> 
> So in other words you can be MRV'ing a video from an S3 and sideloading it to your TiVo at the same time!


Thank you. I placed my order on tivo.com.


----------



## miller890

Has anyone compared Tivo Stream and play-back performance on older iPad gen1 vs newer iPads? Tivo Desktop plus conversion files play fine on a iPad gen1, but I don't think that means much since the Tivo App is doing the playback.


----------



## bradleys

Aero 1 said:


> will someone please try it with a VPN outside the network!!!


I have tried it using a VPN connection from my ipad to my network and it does not work...


----------



## bradleys

miller890 said:


> Has anyone compared Tivo Stream and play-back performance on older iPad gen1 vs newer iPads? Tivo Desktop plus conversion files play fine on a iPad gen1, but I don't think that means much since the Tivo App is doing the playback.


I tested it on an iPad 1, iPad 2 and an early iPod... Works well on all platforms.


----------



## bradleys

skywalkm said:


> Wow. Really impressed with its streaming ability. Pretty flawless quality. I've had no trick play issues (although I haven't watched much). I need to do more testing, but after setting up my wife's phone, it kicked me out on my phone (maybe it was just because of the initial setup on a 2nd device).
> 
> Now to the problem. I tried downloading at best quality and standard. Absolutely horrible. In the best quality, there are "shifted video lines" really distorting the video. On standard quality, it is simply more "shifted video lines". I can't imagine every watching downloaded shows like that. I'll try again tonight. I'm not sure what "best" really means. Ideally, there'd be 3 choices: completely uncompressed video, slightly compressed and highly compressed. I know it would be large, but I'd like the choice.
> 
> Does anyone else have the "shifted video lines" problem with downloads?


I have not noticed any artifacts... I transfered a full HD movie in best quality (~2GB), a 1 hour HD television show in best quality (~1GB) and a 1 hour HD television show in standard quality (~650k)

I cannot personally tell the difference between the best quality and the standard quality on my iPad2. The video quality is fantastic.


----------



## Aero 1

bradleys said:


> I have tried it using a VPN connection from my ipad to my network and it does not work...


bummer, thanks.


----------



## vectorcatch

Aero 1 said:


> bummer, thanks.


For a VPN to work it would need to support mDNS and Bonjour.

This means that your IP address given out on your network would have to be on the same subnet as your Tivo. It also means that your VPN server would need to correctly handle multicast and arp requests from the VPN client. The VPN Client would have to appear like any other device on the local LAN.

The only non-commercial solution I have seen that may be able to do this is StrongSwan (using the dhcp and farp plugins). OpenVPN may have similar functionality, but as it doesn't work with iDevices (non-Jailbroken) I haven't looked.

This will never work with PPTP.


----------



## button1066

skywalkm said:


> Wow. Really impressed with its streaming ability. Pretty flawless quality. I've had no trick play issues (although I haven't watched much). I need to do more testing, but after setting up my wife's phone, it kicked me out on my phone (maybe it was just because of the initial setup on a 2nd device).
> 
> Now to the problem. I tried downloading at best quality and standard. Absolutely horrible. In the best quality, there are "shifted video lines" really distorting the video. On standard quality, it is simply more "shifted video lines". I can't imagine every watching downloaded shows like that. I'll try again tonight. I'm not sure what "best" really means. Ideally, there'd be 3 choices: completely uncompressed video, slightly compressed and highly compressed. I know it would be large, but I'd like the choice.
> 
> Does anyone else have the "shifted video lines" problem with downloads?


I've had the "shifted video lines" issue on streamed content but not on downloaded. It occurred after repeatedly doing 30-second skips and goes away when I stopped the video and restarted. I got the impression I was overloading the Stream and it was going into some kind of reduced quality mode. It's worrying that it can happen on downloads because as far as I can tell the downloads are higher quality than the streamed video and have all worked for me other than the time it takes to download sometimes being longer than expected.


----------



## jmpage2

bradleys said:


> I have not noticed any artifacts... I transfered a full HD movie in best quality (~2GB), a 1 hour HD television show in best quality (~1GB) and a 1 hour HD television show in standard quality (~650k)
> 
> I cannot personally tell the difference between the best quality and the standard quality on my iPad2. The video quality is fantastic.


Difference is a bit more noticeable on the iPad 3, due to the higher resolution and higher contrast screen (I would imagine).


----------



## cherry ghost

bradleys said:


> I have not noticed any artifacts... I transfered a full HD movie in best quality (~2GB), a 1 hour HD television show in best quality (~1GB) and a 1 hour HD television show in standard quality (~650k)
> 
> I cannot personally tell the difference between the best quality and the standard quality on my iPad2. The video quality is fantastic.


Those are the sizes after transfer? Any idea how that compares to the size using KMTTG with the iPad encode?


----------



## cherry ghost

If this thread disappears, it will probably found in the new Stream section


----------



## chrislemasters

miller890 said:


> Has anyone compared Tivo Stream and play-back performance on older iPad gen1 vs newer iPads? Tivo Desktop plus conversion files play fine on a iPad gen1, but I don't think that means much since the Tivo App is doing the playback.


I have (gen1 vs gen3). No difference to my eyes. Hope that helps!


----------



## chrislemasters

bradleys said:


> I have not noticed any artifacts... I transfered a full HD movie in best quality (~2GB), a 1 hour HD television show in best quality (~1GB) and a 1 hour HD television show in standard quality (~650k)
> 
> I cannot personally tell the difference between the best quality and the standard quality on my iPad2. The video quality is fantastic.


This had been my experience, too, with the downloaded programs (on both gen1 and gen3 iPads). No artifacts, hard to tell diff between standard and best quality (other than download times).


----------



## NYHeel

miller890 said:


> Thank you. I placed my order on tivo.com.


I think bradleys misunderstood what you want and I believe the answer is no. You can not initiate a transfer from a Tivo series 3 to a premiere from the iOS app. You obviously can do it from the Tivo itself but you can't do it using the app. At least you couldn't do that prior to v2.0.


----------



## Fofer

rick123 said:


> I am really upset that TiVo has decided to enter a fight with the jailbreak community. They sold this device to me under false pretences




"false pretenses?" They told you it would work on jailbroken devices?

Listen, I jailbreak too, and I am annoyed about this too, but your rant is off base.


----------



## Fofer

Dan203 said:


> No local streaming only. Unless you setup some sort of VPN so your iPad appears as if it's on the local network.


FWIW, I have set up a software VPN which lets me trick the TWCableTV app into thinking I am on my home network when I travel. Works fine. For kicks I tried it with the TiVo app too, with the 1.9 version, and it did NOT work, at all. The app couldn't discover a TiVo to control. I don't expect this to have changed with 2.0, but would be very happy to learn otherwise.

As it stands I won't be experimenting with a Stream until the jailbreak detection is circumvented.


----------



## bradleys

> Originally Posted by miller890
> A question for those that already have a Tivo Stream and multiple Tivos.
> 
> _*From the Tivo IOS app, is it possible to initiate a transfer from another Tivo *_(a non premier) to a Tivo premier and watch it via Tivo Stream?
> 
> The premier has most of the shows the family watches. The other S3 Tivos have shows that I would watch via Tivo Stream on the Tivo app. I know Tivo Stream can not communicate to S3 Tivos, but I want to route the show via the S4 to Tivo Stream.





NYHeel said:


> I think bradleys misunderstood what you want and I believe the answer is no. You can not initiate a transfer from a Tivo series 3 to a premiere from the iOS app. You obviously can do it from the Tivo itself but you can't do it using the app. At least you couldn't do that prior to v2.0.


OK - that is correct. It has never been possible to initiate a transfer from one TiVo box to another TiVo box using only the IOS app. You need to do that via the TiVo itself.

But you can transfer the shows by browsing the S3 NPL via the S4 TiVo and initiate the MRV. As soon as the MRV is initiated you can begin to either stream or side load the video.


----------



## windracer

Fofer said:


> FWIW, I have set up a software VPN which lets me trick the TWCableTV app into thinking I am on my home network when I travel.


Heh, that doesn't work with the Brighthouse streaming app since in addition to jailbreak it also checks for VPN!


----------



## David Platt

David Platt said:


> I can't get mine to work at all. It's been plugged in for several hours, and the white light is still blinking and I get a 'TiVo Stream cannot be set up' error message when I try to set it up through the app. I've rebooted my router, tried switching out network cables, and nothing seems to work.





Surrealone said:


> did you check you tivo.com account to make sure it is activated?





Surrealone said:


> Also another thing I did right away before I even turned my tivo stream on was rename it on my Tivo.com account


I thought I posted a reply to this last night, but it mysteriously disappeared. My Stream was activated on my account, but just for kicks I decided to rename it like you did. I have no idea why, but that cause it to start working. It's now streaming well. Now if xCon just gets this pesky jailbreak thing worked out, I'll be happy!


----------



## Dan203

miller890 said:


> From the Tivo IOS app, is it possible to initiate a transfer from another Tivo (a non premier) to a Tivo premier and watch it via Tivo Stream?


You can watch something that's being transferred via the stream but the app does not have a way to initiate a TiVo to TiVo transfer so you'd need to do that on the TiVo itself.



skywalkm said:


> Does anyone else have the "shifted video lines" problem with downloads?


I saw that on a few shows when streaming. I could reproduce it consistently on those shows, but others worked fine. I then rebooted the stream and the effect went away.

Dan


----------



## sbiller

FWIW, it looks like there is a way to reboot the Stream from the iOS app so no need to pull the plug.


----------



## akc

Hi - I am just looking for a little clarity. We have four Tivo Premieres in the house - will we be able to watch any of them with one stream? They are all hardwired to the network.  Thanks!


----------



## Dan203

Yes. The TiVo App recognizes all TiVos on your network. You just select the one you want to access from a list, pick the recording you want to Stream and select Watch Now.

In fact the Stream can do up to 4 streams at one time. So if you have 4 iPads you could watch 4 different shows on each one with just one Stream.

Dan


----------



## akc

Wow. You have just made my day! As a family with 9 iDevices among the four of us, the fact that at the very least each of us can watch our own thing will make it a slam dunk investment. Thanks! 

Alexa


----------



## Surrealone

David Platt said:


> I thought I posted a reply to this last night, but it mysteriously disappeared. My Stream was activated on my account, but just for kicks I decided to rename it like you did. I have no idea why, but that cause it to start working. It's now streaming well. Now if xCon just gets this pesky jailbreak thing worked out, I'll be happy!


Glad you got it working. I have no idea why the rename trick works but I think it is a matter of a refresh on the tivo.com account.


----------



## Dan203

akc said:


> Wow. You have just made my day! As a family with 9 iDevices among the four of us, the fact that at the very least each of us can watch our own thing will make it a slam dunk investment. Thanks!
> 
> Alexa


One limitation is that each individual TiVo can only stream 3 things at a time, so you'll have to be streaming from at oeast two TiVos to get all 4 streams.

Dan


----------



## Surrealone

Ok I had everything up and running and tested at home was able to Stream no problem. Did I miss something in the directions about not being able to stream away from home? I had my wife take her ipad to work the same one I set up and got working at home with her to work and now she is telling me that it is not working to stream. Can you only stream when in the same home WiFi as the Stream? I thought you could go anywhere with your Ipad and watch shows on the your home TiVo as long as it is connected to any WiFi?


----------



## windracer

Surrealone said:


> Can you only stream when in the same home WiFi as the Stream?


Yes ... it only works on your local network.



> TiVo Stream adds flexibility to your TiVo experience by letting you *stream shows to mobile devices in your home*, or wirelessly transfer shows and take them to go.





Surrealone said:


> I thought you could go anywhere with your Ipad and watch shows on the your home TiVo as long as it is connected to any WiFi?


No, but if the shows aren't copy-protected you can download them onto your iPad for viewing outside of your home. No streaming though ...


----------



## innocentfreak

Surrealone said:


> Ok I had everything up and running and tested at home was able to Stream no problem. Did I miss something in the directions about not being able to stream away from home? I had my wife take her ipad to work the same one I set up and got working at home with her to work and now she is telling me that it is not working to stream. Can you only stream when in the same home WiFi as the Stream? I thought you could go anywhere with your Ipad and watch shows on the your home TiVo as long as it is connected to any WiFi?


Yeah you must have skipped over it since it is mentioned in every review and I believe even on the product details.

It only streams on the same network as the Premiere. You can download shows to the iPad though if they are marked copy freely and those will work anywhere since you downloaded them.


----------



## Surrealone

D"OH
Ok download then watch away from home.


----------



## Surrealone

innocentfreak said:


> Yeah you must have skipped over it since it is mentioned in every review and I believe even on the product details.
> 
> It only streams on the same network as the Premiere. You can download shows to the iPad though if they are marked copy freely and those will work anywhere since you downloaded them.


WOW I did read a lot of the reviews and even watched the little preview video.
I'm sure it was selective hearing and reading. Happens all the time when my wife talks to me


----------



## crxssi

windracer said:


> No, but if the shows aren't copy-protected you can download them onto your iPad for viewing outside of your home. No streaming though ...


And only if your iOS device is not jailbroken/rooted.


----------



## jmpage2

Surrealone said:


> WOW I did read a lot of the reviews and even watched the little preview video.
> I'm sure it was selective hearing and reading. Happens all the time when my wife talks to me


If you want to stream to the iPad while away from home then you probably want a Slingbox.

Streaming at the quality that the TiVo is doing with the stream box requires a ton of bandwidth, and requires that the TiVo and Stream appear to be locally connected.


----------



## ShayL

jmpage2 said:


> If you want to stream to the iPad while away from home then you probably want a Slingbox.
> 
> Streaming at the quality that the TiVo is doing with the stream box requires a ton of bandwidth, and requires that the TiVo and Stream appear to be locally connected.


Plus the slingbox can change the resolution dynamically based on the bandwidth. It will also cut the framerate if you're on 3G.


----------



## Surrealone

Or if I setup a VPN tunnel with my MiFi device that makes the ipad think it's at home.


----------



## jmpage2

Surrealone said:


> Or if I setup a VPN tunnel with my MiFi device that makes the ipad think it's at home.


Good luck with that. One the VPN will have to do a few things like proxy bonjour/broadcast messages between the iPad and the other TiVo equipment. Two, you will need a LOT of upload bandwidth and if your provider has a cap it won't take long to chew through it at 1GB per hour of HD material.


----------



## Surrealone

jmpage2 said:


> Good luck with that. One the VPN will have to do a few things like proxy bonjour/broadcast messages between the iPad and the other TiVo equipment. Two, you will need a LOT of upload bandwidth and if your provider has a cap it won't take long to chew through it at 1GB per hour of HD material.


Great thanks


----------



## jmpage2

ShayL said:


> Plus the slingbox can change the resolution dynamically based on the bandwidth. It will also cut the framerate if you're on 3G.


Frankly I hate my sling-box. The quality is garbage, I have tons of problems reliably connecting when on wifi in places like hotels and coffee bars... but unfortunately Sling is the only game in town for place-shifting right now.

Sling has gone totally downhill since Echostar/Dish bought them out.


----------



## Dan203

Ditto. Most hotels just don't provide enough bandwidth for a relibale connection to a Slingbox. Plus there is a huge lag so it's almost impossible to control a TiVo To FF past commercials. 30 second skip helps, but even then it can be difficult to get pas the commericals. 

Dan


----------



## ShayL

jmpage2 said:


> Frankly I hate my sling-box. The quality is garbage, I have tons of problems reliably connecting when on wifi in places like hotels and coffee bars... but unfortunately Sling is the only game in town for place-shifting right now.
> 
> Sling has gone totally downhill since Echostar/Dish bought them out.


There is also http://www.myvulkano.com/products.html. What is your upload speed? If it is not greater than a 1.5 Mbs, then you are not going to HD quality


----------



## jmpage2

ShayL said:


> There is also http://www.myvulkano.com/products.html. What is your upload speed? If it is not greater than a 1.5 Mbs, then you are not going to HD quality


My upload speed is over 5mbps. The issue is that many guest networks at hotels and the like are strictly throttled. They will often burst up to a higher speed and then throttle the speed down intermittently, which plays hell with a realtime video feed from a Slingbox resulting in massive buffering.


----------



## morac

jmpage2 said:


> Frankly I hate my sling-box. The quality is garbage, I have tons of problems reliably connecting when on wifi in places like hotels and coffee bars... but unfortunately Sling is the only game in town for place-shifting right now.
> 
> Sling has gone totally downhill since Echostar/Dish bought them out.


I'd have to agree somewhat. I think the video quality is fine with my Slingbox HD Pro and my iPad, but the audio is nearly always out of sync and the right and left audio channels are also out of sync with each other. That's just the iPad app. It's fine on a laptop.

I have an upload bandwidth of 10 Mbps.


----------



## NYHeel

jmpage2 said:


> Good luck with that. One the VPN will have to do a few things like proxy bonjour/broadcast messages between the iPad and the other TiVo equipment. Two, you will need a LOT of upload bandwidth and if your provider has a cap it won't take long to chew through it at 1GB per hour of HD material.


I have 25 Mb upload with Fios. It would be nice if Tivo allowed you to turn on out of network streaming with the appropriate caveats or warning messages. With 4g coming on the iphone soon the download speeds should be sufficient and my upload speed at 25 Mb should be more than enough.


----------



## aaronwt

jmpage2 said:


> Frankly I hate my sling-box. The quality is garbage, I have tons of problems reliably connecting when on wifi in places like hotels and coffee bars... but unfortunately Sling is the only game in town for place-shifting right now.
> 
> Sling has gone totally downhill since Echostar/Dish bought them out.


What about the Vulkano? I use the Hava HD Platinum which is the model prior to the Vulkano and I have no issues connecting to it over my cell phone, Kindle Fire, and laptops over WiFi at hotels and other locations. Plus no audio sync issues.

I'm on the FiOS 150/65 tier. But I also had no issues when I was on the 35/35 tier.

Sent from my HTC ReZound using Forum Runner


----------



## aaronwt

I see Amazon announced the new Kindle Fire models. Now I really hope TiVo gets an app out for android soon for the Stream. I plan on replacing my old 7" Fire with the new 7" version and also getting one of the new 8.9" ones. So it would be nice to have the stream working with them.

Sent from my HTC ReZound using Forum Runner


----------



## DaveWhittle

I just ordered one today, and have a question - what type of AC plug does it use? 

I have one open slot on a power strip, and a wall-wart won't fit. I watched an unboxing on YouTube, but he never took the power adaptor out of the wrapping.


----------



## crxssi

jmpage2 said:


> My upload speed is over 5mbps. The issue is that many guest networks at hotels and the like are strictly throttled. They will often burst up to a higher speed and then throttle the speed down intermittently, which plays hell with a realtime video feed from a Slingbox resulting in massive buffering.


On public networks, people hog all the bandwidth with stuff like.... oh, STREAMING VIDEO (or downloading huge crap. What crap? Typically video). You can have a network that serves many dozens of typical web site viewing users without a hitch. Throw several video streamers on there and it not only makes it impossible to stream video for anyone, but it ruins even the web browsing experience for everyone NOT hogging bandwidth.

I personally welcome properly configured throttling to punish those who would ruin it for everyone.


----------



## gtrogue

DaveWhittle said:


> I just ordered one today, and have a question - what type of AC plug does it use?
> 
> I have one open slot on a power strip, and a wall-wart won't fit. I watched an unboxing on YouTube, but he never took the power adaptor out of the wrapping.


Wall wart. It's fairly narrow, about as wide as a regular two prong plug, but about 3" long.


----------



## HugheJass

DaveWhittle said:


> I just ordered one today, and have a question - what type of AC plug does it use?
> 
> I have one open slot on a power strip, and a wall-wart won't fit. I watched an unboxing on YouTube, but he never took the power adaptor out of the wrapping.


If you have to worry about the space on your power strip, I'd go pick up one of those short "extension cords" that are made for just this purpose. Most electronics or office supply stores will have them.


----------



## windracer

HugheJass said:


> If you have to worry about the space on your power strip, I'd go pick up one of those short "extension cords" that are made for just this purpose. Most electronics or office supply stores will have them.


Yeah, like these. I have a bunch.

http://www.amazon.com/Ziotek-ZT1212542-Liberator-14-Inch-Extension/dp/B000EWVSZK


----------



## DaveWhittle

Cool, thanks for the info and suggestion! Windracer - thanks for the link, I just ordered a set of those - should come in handy. :up:

I was really on the fence about the Stream device, but after I ordered it, the more I think about it the more I'm excited to get it. I know there's a lot of Android users that are frustrated, and the lack of internet streaming seems limiting - albeit I'm sure that's not a TiVo decision. But knowing the limitations going in, I can see this feature being very useful in my household.

Our 2 person, 2-story household only has one TV hooked up to cable via the TiVo Premiere, yet each person has an iPad. Being able to watch TiVo Live or recorded shows from any room in the house really makes sense for us. The bedroom, breakfast nook, upstairs studio, kitchen, maybe even the backyard can all have TiVo now! 

There seems to be a lot of people asking "who needs this transcoding device?" Well... *me*, for one.


----------



## compnurd

DaveWhittle said:


> Cool, thanks for the info and suggestion! Windracer - thanks for the link, I just ordered a set of those - should come in handy. :up:
> 
> I was really on the fence about the Stream device, but after I ordered it, the more I think about it the more I'm excited to get it. I know there's a lot of Android users that are frustrated, and the lack of internet streaming seems limiting - albeit I'm sure that's not a TiVo decision. But knowing the limitations going in, I can see this feature being very useful in my household.
> 
> Our 2 person, 2-story household only has one TV hooked up to cable via the TiVo Premiere, yet each person has an iPad. Being able to watch TiVo Live or recorded shows from any room in the house really makes sense for us. The bedroom, breakfast nook, upstairs studio, kitchen, maybe even the backyard can all have TiVo now!
> 
> There seems to be a lot of people asking "who needs this transcoding device?" Well... *me*, for one.


Just to be Clear.. You can not watch Live TV on the Stream.. you can watch as it is being recorded


----------



## DaveWhittle

compnurd said:


> Just to be Clear.. You can not watch Live TV on the Stream.. you can watch as it is being recorded


My understanding is, using the iPad TiVo app, I will be able to look at the current guide data, click on a show, and select "watch on iPad" - as long as one of the TiVo's tuner is available.

Is this correct? Or do I select "record this show" and then "watch this on iPad"?


----------



## davezatz

DaveWhittle said:


> My understanding is, using the iPad TiVo app, I will be able to look at the current guide data, click on a show, and select "watch on iPad" - as long as one of the TiVo's tuner is available.
> 
> Is this correct?


Yes. But so is compnurd.


----------



## cherry ghost

DaveWhittle said:


> My understanding is, using the iPad TiVo app, I will be able to look at the current guide data, click on a show, and select "watch on iPad" - as long as one of the TiVo's tuner is available.
> 
> Is this correct? Or do I select "record this show" and then "watch this on iPad"?


I believe that "watch on iPad" will start a recording, which then lets you watch on the iPad. Pretty sure I read that in another thread.


----------



## eziemann

windracer said:


> Yeah, like these. I have a bunch.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Ziotek-ZT1212542-Liberator-14-Inch-Extension/dp/B000EWVSZK


Here are some cheaper alternatives (ouch! $18 for 5 cables!):

1 ft: http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10228&cs_id=1022802&p_id=5296&seq=1&format=2
2 ft: http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10228&cs_id=1022802&p_id=5297&seq=1&format=2


----------



## windracer

eziemann said:


> Here are some cheaper alternatives (ouch! $18 for 5 cables!)


Shoot ... I always forget about monoprice. Sorry for the Amazon link!


----------



## aaronwt

windracer said:


> Yeah, like these. I have a bunch.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Ziotek-ZT1212542-Liberator-14-Inch-Extension/dp/B000EWVSZK


These work even better.

http://www.amazon.com/Ziotek-ZT1212...words=power+strip+liberator+with+pass+through

Since they have a pass through for power.


----------



## eziemann

aaronwt said:


> These work even better.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Ziotek-ZT1212...words=power+strip+liberator+with+pass+through
> 
> Since they have a pass through for power.


Hadn't seen those before--Now those might be worth $19 for 5.


----------



## Fofer

windracer said:


> Heh, that doesn't work with the Brighthouse streaming app since in addition to jailbreak it also checks for VPN!


TWCableTV's app checks for VPN too, but there are a few tweaks out there that have managed to circumvent it. FakeTimeWarner was one. 3G Unrestrictor did too -- you may want to try it (in conjunction with xCon.)


----------



## spaldingclan

I got a tweet back from the Xcon developer that he's working on updating the app to fix the Tivo app


----------



## csgraber

I just ordered the stream. Pretty much got a Premiere because of that. . and Tivo treated me pretty nicely there (good price, no change to my subscription etc). of course I've been Tivoing for about 10years. . .I'm old school.

I will def. keep an eye on this board. What I really want is to used my hacked Android 4g Phone to setup a hotspot for my ipad. . .or if I'm at starbucks or something . .and be able to watch shows.

The biggest downside is this non-background downloading crap. I find that pretty weak.


----------



## ronaldheft

cherry ghost said:


> I believe that "watch on iPad" will start a recording, which then lets you watch on the iPad. Pretty sure I read that in another thread.


That's exactly how it works. The only "annoying" thing about that setup is it starts you at the beginning of the recording, so you might have to fast forward up to live TV depending on if the tuner was already on that channel.


----------



## gtrogue

csgraber said:


> The biggest downside is this non-background downloading crap. I find that pretty weak.


That's an iOS thing. Apple will only let you continue a background download for 10 minutes. Apple is very specific about what types of things can run longer than 10 minutes in a background thread, the Tivo app doesn't meet the criteria.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Android version has background downloads.


----------



## innocentfreak

gtrogue said:


> That's an iOS thing. Apple will only let you continue a background download for 10 minutes. Apple is very specific about what types of things can run longer than 10 minutes in a background thread, the Tivo app doesn't meet the criteria.
> 
> It wouldn't surprise me if the Android version has background downloads.


Of course if the App recognized synced .TiVo videos, they could just add support for TiVo Desktop and no one would have to worry about background downloads. Also it would be faster since it would be a pure wired connection if using a desktop/


----------



## Dan203

innocentfreak said:


> Of course if the App recognized synced .TiVo videos, they could just add support for TiVo Desktop and no one would have to worry about background downloads. Also it would be faster since it would be a pure wired connection if using a desktop/


I don't understand this comment. The App can't just play .tivo files directly. Those are all MPEG-2 and the iPad doesn't have hardware to decode MPEG-2. The whole purpose of the Stream is to recode the MPEG-2 stream to H.264 so the iPad can decode it using it's built in hardware decoder.

Now if you mean utilizing a PC to do the recoding, rather then a dedicated box, you'd be surprised at how poorly that would work. Even the fastest x86 CPU can barely recode 1 HD stream in real time, let alone 4 at the same time. And most lower end or older PCs couldn't even do one. It would be a support nightmare. There are some thing that dedicated chips and do remarkably better then a PC, and video recoding is one of them.

Dan


----------



## innocentfreak

Dan203 said:


> I don't understand this comment. The App can't just play .tivo files directly. Those are all MPEG-2 and the iPad doesn't have hardware to decode MPEG-2. The whole purpose of the Stream is to recode the MPEG-2 stream to H.264 so the iPad can decode it using it's built in hardware decoder.
> 
> Now if you mean utilizing a PC to do the recoding, rather then a dedicated box, you'd be surprised at how poorly that would work. Even the fastest x86 CPU can barely recode 1 HD stream in real time, let alone 4 at the same time. And most lower end or older PCs couldn't even do one. It would be a support nightmare. There are some thing that dedicated chips and do remarkably better then a PC, and video recoding is one of them.
> 
> Dan


The problem I have heard is there is no way currently to add or remove videos to the TiVo app except via the Stream. For example if you download shows via the Stream to the iPad, you can't copy those same copy freely videos off the IOS device. Along those same lines, you can't copy over H.264 videos to play via the TiVo app.

This functionality would be needed in addition to the TiVo Desktop access for transfers.

Sorry this is what I get for posting at work.


----------



## compnurd

innocentfreak said:


> The problem I have heard is there is no way currently to add or remove videos to the TiVo app except via the Stream. For example if you download shows via the Stream to the iPad, you can't copy those same copy freely videos off the IOS device. Along those same lines, you can't copy over H.264 videos to play via the TiVo app.
> 
> This functionality would be needed in addition to the TiVo Desktop access for transfers.
> 
> Sorry this is what I get for posting at work.


I dont think the point was for the programs to ever be watched outside the Tivo App


----------



## jmpage2

crxssi said:


> On public networks, people hog all the bandwidth with stuff like.... oh, STREAMING VIDEO (or downloading huge crap. What crap? Typically video). You can have a network that serves many dozens of typical web site viewing users without a hitch. Throw several video streamers on there and it not only makes it impossible to stream video for anyone, but it ruins even the web browsing experience for everyone NOT hogging bandwidth.
> 
> I personally welcome properly configured throttling to punish those who would ruin it for everyone.


Well, I review network designs for video, so I'm quite familiar with throttling, QoS queues, etc.

I'm not sure precisely what the issue is with hotel/guest networks in general I just know that they do a very poor job with my Slingbox.

There's no reason you should not be able to get a reasonably good quality 720P video/audio transmission going at a measly 1mb/s but Sling can't seem to pull that off particularly well.


----------



## Dan203

innocentfreak said:


> Along those same lines, you can't copy over H.264 videos to play via the TiVo app.


OK I could see that being useful, since the trick play controls in the app are better then those in the standard Apple player. However there is a way to get video from your PC to an iPad already so this is probably not high priority for them.

Although I wouldn't mind seeing them add this functionality to TiVo Desktop. I'd also like to see them add the ability to utilize the Stream when copying shows to a PC. But those are both secondary to the devices original purpose.

Dan


----------



## Dan203

jmpage2 said:


> There's no reason you should not be able to get a reasonably good quality 720P video/audio transmission going at a measly 1mb/s but Sling can't seem to pull that off particularly well.


I agree. I bought the SlingBox a few years ago right before we went on a 2 1/2 week trip up the East coast. The idea was that we could continue to watch some of our "must see" shows in the Hotels at night time. However even though we had a 3Mbps up speed at home, the video was barely even watchable in most of the hotels we stayed at. A ran some speed tests and most of the hotels never went above 200-300Mbps down. Since then I've only used it a few times while traveling and it was OK but when I bought my iPad last year I thought I finally had a use for it... streaming to the iPad inside my home. Unfortunately after paying $30 for the app I discovered my SlingBox was broken and it's some very common problem because they use sh*tty capacitors. I briefly considered getting another one, but then TiVo showed off the Stream at CES and I decided to wait for it instead. I'm glad I did because the experience is way better then the Slingbox for local network streaming.

Dan


----------



## andyf

Dan, tell me you mean kbps. 200-300Mbps is huge.


----------



## Dan203

andyf said:


> Dan, tell me you mean kbps. 200-300Mbps is huge.


Yeah I meant Kbps. 

Dan


----------



## Surrealone

Dan203 said:


> OK I could see that being useful, since the *trick play controls in the app *are better then those in the standard Apple player. However there is a way to get video from your PC to an iPad already so this is probably not high priority for them.
> 
> Although I wouldn't mind seeing them add this functionality to TiVo Desktop. I'd also like to see them add the ability to utilize the Stream when copying shows to a PC. But those are both secondary to the devices original purpose.
> 
> Dan


What is trick play control?


----------



## jfh3

Surrealone said:


> What is trick play control?


The ability to scan through the program, 30 second skip, 8 sec rewind.


----------



## Surrealone

And thats called trick play? hummm I just see a button on the bottom that says 30sec skip


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## crxssi

Dan203 said:


> the video was barely even watchable in most of the hotels we stayed at. A ran some speed tests and most of the hotels never went above 200-300kbps down.


That's because

1) They probably don't have that much bandwidth to begin with. Commercial bandwidth is expensive.

2) They are usually providing it over wifi, and that has lots of potential problems with range, interference, bad devices on the network, etc.

3) You are trying to go through more points to get "home". It is not like you are talking to a server much closer to the backbone.

4) You have to share that limited bandwidth with potentially dozens and dozens of other people competing for a limited resource.

5) They could be potentially throttling down hogs, and typically, ANY video user is just that- a bandwidth hog! Video streaming is dozens of times more load than audio streaming which is dozens of times more than just casual web browsing (which is what most of these public networks were designed to handle).

All it takes is a small number of hogs to ruin it for everyone. I don't expect to be able to stream video on a public network at a place like a hotel (not yet anyway). What makes me angry is when just regular text browsing on web sites is miserably slow due to the LACK of decent throttling and traffic management. But that is complex and few places do it.

When it comes to travel video entertainment, I plan ahead and shove stuff onto my tablet or netbook so I KNOW I will be able to watch something.


----------



## morac

crxssi said:


> That's because
> 
> 1) They probably don't have that much bandwidth to begin with. Commercial bandwidth is expensive.
> 
> 2) They are usually providing it over wifi, and that has lots of potential problems with range, interference, bad devices on the network, etc.
> 
> 3) You are trying to go through more points to get "home". It is not like you are talking to a server much closer to the backbone.
> 
> 4) You have to share that limited bandwidth with potentially dozens and dozens of other people competing for a limited resource.
> 
> 5) They could be potentially throttling down hogs, and typically, ANY video user is just that- a bandwidth hog! Video streaming is dozens of times more load than audio streaming which is dozens of times more than just casual web browsing (which is what most of these public networks were designed to handle).
> 
> All it takes is a small number of hogs to ruin it for everyone. I don't expect to be able to stream video on a public network at a place like a hotel (not yet anyway). What makes me angry is when just regular text browsing on web sites is miserably slow due to the LACK of decent throttling and traffic management. But that is complex and few places do it.
> 
> When it comes to travel video entertainment, I plan ahead and shove stuff onto my tablet or netbook so I KNOW I will be able to watch something.


I'd agree with all the above, but #1. Bandwidth is dirt cheap, even commercial bandwidth. This isn't the old days where a business rented out a T1 line. Businesses can get Internet from cable companies. That's what mine does with Comcast, who provides ridiculous speeds over fiber (technically it's enterprise service though, not business).

Of note, there are some hotels that are now providing "premium" Internet service for people who want to do things like stream video and the like.


----------



## crxssi

morac said:


> I'd agree with all the above, but #1. Bandwidth is dirt cheap, even commercial bandwidth. This isn't the old days where a business rented out a T1 line. Businesses can get Internet from cable companies. That's what mine does with Comcast, who provides ridiculous speeds over fiber (technically it's enterprise service though, not business).
> 
> Of note, there are some hotels that are now providing "premium" Internet service for people who want to do things like stream video and the like.


It sounds like you are just possibly disagreeing with HALF of #1. It is very, very possible the hotel he was using didn't have a lot of bandwidth.

In any case, we have Cox. I have to pay over $600/mo for a paltry 3Mb/s of *quality* (guaranteed, symmetric, fiber) commercial bandwidth at work on the same carrier that I pay $45/mo for 35Mb/s at home... that is 156 times more expensive (Mb per dollar).

If you scratch the "quality" part, above, and just threw in a cable modem, on a commercial account, is $160/mo for 15Mb/s (fastest they even offer)... that is 8.33 times more expensive (833%).

It is all how you look at it. In some ways it is expensive, in others not.


----------



## aaronwt

If bandwidth is that slow just tether it to a cell phone. Assuming it's unlimited. I've not run into any bandwidth issues at the hotels I've been in. But the WiFi service is typically not free each day and I'm also not in a different city every week like when I was traveling a lot. So I just probably have not run into one with bandwidth issues yet. 

The hotel at the federal agency I'm a contractor at has alot of bandwidth. It tested out faster than my old 35/35 FiOS connection, but of course that is the exception. But I have no issues consistently streaming from my Hava HD 10mb/s stream(with the registry hack) when I stay there. At a regular hotel I need to use the normal Hava 1Mb/s or less bitstream when I watch content from home.

I'm looking forward to being able to use the TiVo stream at home with the new Kindle Fire HD. I just hope they come out with the Android app very soon. SInce the 7" Kindle Fire HD is coming out in a week. Hopefully the stream will be at BestBuy soon. Then I can use my reward zone dollars to pay for most of it. Of course I really want the TiVo Mini to come out.


----------



## stinastina

windracer said:


> I was able to roll back to the previous version (v1.9.1) to get the app working again on my jailbroken devices. Guess I'll wait and see if the xCon guys can come up with a fix for us.


How did you do that ?


----------



## windracer

See my discussion here with True Colors about how to re-install the old version of the .ipa file if you have it.


----------



## aaronwt

So the people that already have the TiVo stream, does TiVo offer any type of extended warranty for it, like they do with the Premieres? Best Buy has the Stream in stock locally now. It shows their two year warranty is $20 and the four year is $25. I was wondering how the TiVo extended warranty compares if they offer one.


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## rick123

Thanks for the xcon update!

And apologies for my earlier rant. I wasn't aware this was a more widespread issue and had never heard of a legitimate app not working on a jail broken device.


----------



## aaronwt

No one has chimed in on the extended warranty yet. Does the Stream show up on your TiVo list with the option to get an extended warranty(like it does with the Premiere), and if it does what are the options and the cost?

Even though it doesn't work with Android yet I might pick one up tomorrow. I was going to meet the GF tomorrow morning to see a movie but those plans have changed. So I might as well go to Best Buy instead and return my Asus EA-N66 Access Point and while I'm there I could go ahead and pick up the stream. The return period should be 60 days like other items so I figure I have nothing to lose. I hate going to the customer service desk at Best Buy but since I'm making a trip it would be the best time to pick one up.

And if I decide to get an extended warranty from Best Buy I'd rather do it when I make the initial purchase, otherwise I need to visit the Customer Service counter again to add it later.


----------



## ellinj

I dunno if I would bother with a warranty. Other than the fan there is no mechanical parts in this thing. Not much to fail.


----------



## Dan203

$25 for 4 years isn't bad. If that fan goes out that thing is probably going to burn up really quick. (it's hot!) Plus those stupid power bricks have a tendency to go bad after a while and they're not always easy, or cheap, to replace. I'd consider it, but there doesn't seem to be an option for one through TiVo. At least I don't see one listed when I log in to my account.

Dan


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## aaronwt

For me the extended warranty is more important for the resale value. When the S5 units come out and I sell my S4 units, the extended warranty adds to the resale value and also makes it sell quicker. Assuming the S5 has streaming built in, then I won't need the TiVo Stream any more.

So it sounds like TiVo doesn't offer an extended warranty on it. And with the initial warranty being only 90 days, I might as well pay the extra for the 4 year warranty from Best Buy.


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## modnar

Dan203 said:


> $25 for 4 years isn't bad. If that fan goes out that thing is probably going to burn up really quick. (it's hot!) Plus those stupid power bricks have a tendency to go bad after a while and they're not always easy, or cheap, to replace. I'd consider it, but there doesn't seem to be an option for one through TiVo. At least I don't see one listed when I log in to my account.
> 
> Dan


I noticed mine is typically running around 68 C. It seemed hot to me. Are others seeing similar temps?


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## Dan203

Where do you see the temp? Mine feels hot, but I have no way to test the actual temp unless it's displayed in the app somehwere. 

Dan


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## modnar

Dan203 said:


> Where do you see the temp? Mine feels hot, but I have no way to test the actual temp unless it's displayed in the app somehwere.
> 
> Dan


It's on the "Full System Information" page that you can get to from the Settings area on the app.


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## Dan203

Mine is currently 66c

Dan


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## Jonathan_S

aaronwt said:


> No one has chimed in on the extended warranty yet. Does the Stream show up on your TiVo list with the option to get an extended warranty(like it does with the Premiere), and if it does what are the options and the cost?


Doesn't look like TiVo is offering extended warrenties on the Stream.

Looking at the list of Active TiVo Devices, the Stream does not have any link for 'Add Extended Warrenty' (But the Elite I got from Woot does).


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## Surrealone

No longer part of the Stream Team  I"m shipping mine back. I'm over it and so is the wife. I can just as easy copy a show to an SD card and play on my android tablet if I need to and the TiVo shows on the TiVo will stay on the TiVo for now. Maybe after the android APP comes out and the price point is lower then maybe just maybe I will try it again. Thanks anyway TiVo


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## jmpage2

Sorry it did not work out for you but it is great for those of us with iDevices. Queue up a bunch of shows before you head out on a trip, long day, etc, and automagically it's on the device 30-60 minutes later. Sure beats the snot out of doing a bunch of gymnastics with SD media, etc, to accomplish the same thing.


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## Surrealone

jmpage2 said:


> Sorry it did not work out for you but it is great for those of us with iDevices. Queue up a bunch of shows before you head out on a trip, long day, etc, and automagically it's on the device 30-60 minutes later. Sure beats the snot out of doing a bunch of gymnastics with SD media, etc, to accomplish the same thing.


Oh my mistake it did work great for us and I really like it but I'm waiting for the price point to drop and for the Android APP. And no need for Gymnastics it's same thing on both devices. We have lots of iDevices and in the case of the stream copy a show to the iDevice and play it on the iDevice or copy the show to SD media and play it on my android tablet it's all same  Also in my case I can cue up many shows or movies videos of the kids or whatever and take it with as well no hoops and no gymnstics. I have found it faster to move large amounts of data(movies HD format) faster on the SD card. But it's all the same. Cheers!


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## pbw

My first unit ran 60-68 degrees C (with the fan reported at 0% and up to 50% after booting up). I could never get it to stream for longer than a minute before it basically locked up (would no longer stream but would still respond to the web-based Sys Info; I had to reboot to get it stream again for one whole minute before stopping with a never ending "Buffering" message). Simply pausing the stream would also cause it to lock up.

I thought the high temp might have something to do with it. I bought a second unit today (which works fine) and it's running 55-61 deg C (fan at 0% with one stream). Although the temp is lower, it could easily be due to a difference in room temp. And since other people are reporting temps in the 60's, I think my first Stream was just a bum unit.


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## rick123

Xcon rev 37 resolves the jailbreak issue. Some really smart people out there. Might not be on Cydia yet but you can find discussion/link on github.com


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## Fofer

Hurrah!!!!


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## Beryl

Jonathan_S said:


> Doesn't look like TiVo is offering extended warrenties on the Stream.
> 
> Looking at the list of Active TiVo Devices, the Stream does not have any link for 'Add Extended Warrenty' (But the Elite I got from Woot does).


It is probably worth checking if SquareTrade offers something. I wouldn't buy ANYTHING from TiVo without an extended warranty after getting burned with the slide remotes.


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## windracer

rick123 said:


> Xcon rev 37 resolves the jailbreak issue.


Worked on my iPhone (xCon 37~beta7) with the 2.0.1 TiVo app. :up: Going to update my iPad now.

_edit:_ back up and running on the iPad as well. Awesome.


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## Fofer

With the news of the xCon update for jailbreakers, I just left my local Best Buy, with a TiVo Stream in hand. I'm excited to give this thing a whirl!


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## Dan203

Hey if you figure out some way to hack it to extract the recordings to a PC let me know. I might just jailbreak mine just for that.

Dan


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## Fofer

Dan203 said:


> Hey if you figure out some way to hack it to extract the recordings to a PC let me know. I might just jailbreak mine just for that.
> 
> Dan


After poking around the iOS directory, I have found where the video downloads are stored on the iPad.

The TiVo app itself is called "Quicksilver.app" in the internal directory. (I see some references to "Quicksilver-TiVo.") And in its enclosing directory is a "Documents" folder, and in there is a "SavedVideos" folder. I just don't know what to do with what's inside; it's a bunch of .seg files:










I am saving this folder to my Mac now to see what to make of it.


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## Fofer

In other news, I am using a great jailbreak tweak called UnrestrictPremium 2, that allows for *AirPlay Mirroring* to work on apps that otherwise restrict it.

Indeed, it is now working with the TiVo app. :up: (Also works with many others that have the same crippling, like HBO GO, DirecTV, TimeWarnerCable Live TV, etc. Very happy to have this, it opens up doors!)

This tweak lessens my desire for a TiVo Mini, quite frankly, since I now have a TiVo Stream and an iPad, playing back on a bigscreen TV (via AirPlay Mirroring and AppleTV.) No HDMI cable or other tweaks required.

I suspect the remote UI would be a little better with an actual TiVo Mini, and the video would certainly fill the entire screen (whereas AirPlay Mirroring like this, for me, leaves a big black border.) But still, this is _free_ (have we heard yet if TiVo Mini has a monthly fee?) and feels great to be able to bypass the annoying anti-AirPlay-Mirroring measures that these apps have been instituting.


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## DavidTigerFan

Fof, I haven't followed the JB scene much recently. Can ios6 be JB on an ipad3?


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## Fofer

iOS 6, that was just released yesterday? No.


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## Dan203

Fofer said:


> After poking around the iOS directory, I have found where the video downloads are stored on the iPad.
> 
> The TiVo app itself is called "Quicksilver.app" in the internal directory. (I see some references to "Quicksilver-TiVo.") And in its enclosing directory is a "Documents" folder, and in there is a "SavedVideos" folder. I just don't know what to do with what's inside; it's a bunch of .seg files:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am saving this folder to my Mac now to see what to make of it.


Interesting. Based on what little I could find poking around the systeminfo screens the Stream uses HLS for streaming. HLS breaks video into small segments so you can randomly access any portion of a video while it's streaming. It would appear TiVo retains the HLS segments in the app folder for local playback. HLS segments are really just TS streams so, provided they aren't encrypted, you should be able to play them in VLC. If they aren't encrypted you should also be able to join them all back into a single file using VideoReDo.

Is there a way to roll back the OS on an iPad? I just got a brand new iPad3 today. However I already upgraded my iPad2 to iOS6 yesterday (didn't expect the 3 until next week) so I have to upgrade the 3 to iOS6 to use my backup. However when I'm done and sure everything is working I'd like to roll the iPad2 back to factory defaults and then JB it. Is that possible?

Dan


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## bradleys

> Is there a way to roll back the OS on an iPad?


When was the last time you ran a back-up on itunes? Also, you can try this trick - see if 5.1.1 is still available.

http://www.idownloadblog.com/2012/06/20/how-to-downgrade-ios-6-beta-to-ios-5-1-1/


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## ShayL

Dan203 said:


> Is there a way to roll back the OS on an iPad? I just got a brand new iPad3 today. However I already upgraded my iPad2 to iOS6 yesterday (didn't expect the 3 until next week) so I have to upgrade the 3 to iOS6 to use my backup. However when I'm done and sure everything is working I'd like to roll the iPad2 back to factory defaults and then JB it. Is that possible?


It looks like it is possible if you have the blobs saved. Here is a blog entry from the dev team: http://blog.iphone-dev.org/post/31869383801/blob-o-riffic


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## Fofer

Dan203 said:


> HLS segments are really just TS streams so, provided they aren't encrypted, you should be able to play them in VLC.


I can't seem to play them in VLC. Not sure if that means they're encrypted, or what, but I can't seem to play them on my Mac.


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## Dan203

Want to send me one so I can look at it? They look relatively small

Dan


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## Fofer

Sure, PM me your email address.


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## innocentfreak

It looks like there are various .seg joiners and converters out there. I wonder if it is a combination of unjoined files and VLC not having access to the MAK. I wonder if the app has some type of updated tivodecode built in.


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## Fofer

Fofer said:


> DavidTigerFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fof, I haven't followed the JB scene much recently. Can ios6 be JB on an ipad3?
> 
> 
> 
> iOS 6, that was just released yesterday? No.
Click to expand...

I should clarify. It *is* jailbreakable, but only on some models (ie: iPhone 5, iPhone 4S, iPad 2, iPad 3, and iPod touch 5th-gen are not supported), and it's a tethered jailbreak:

http://www.itechpost.com/articles/4...edsn0w-install-cydia-iphone-ipod-touch-a4.htm


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## Dan203

I looked at them in a hex editor. They don't match any format I've ever seen, so my only guess is that they are encrypted.

From what I understand HLS uses SSL encryption, so that could explain the seemingly random data. I was hoping that maybe TiVo stored the local copies unencrypted or converted to the standard TiVoToGo format, but that doesn't appear to be the case. TTG files are encrypted but only the video and audio streams are encrypted, the container is still a standard TS or PS. These files don't seem to have any discernible pattern to the data which means the entire stream is likely encrypted.

That doesn't bode well for the possibility of side loading capabilities coming to TiVo Desktop. I think our only hope of seeing this on a PC is via a Win8 app that is completely self contained like the iOS app.

Dan


----------



## moyekj

I tried pretty hard a while back to reverse engineer MRS but had very limited success because of SSL encryption. Would be great if someone much more familiar with SSL MITM attacks or the like to continue that work:
MRS Discovery Thread

I keep hoping the so-called yet to be released to public new SDK may have hooks in place for streaming to and from series 4 units but I'm not holding my breath on that (or even that it will be publicly released to anyone but TiVo partners).


----------



## windracer

windracer said:


> Worked on my iPhone (xCon 37~beta7) with the 2.0.1 TiVo app. :up:


It looks like with today's 2.0.2 release of the TiVo app, xCon is no longer necessary to get the app to run on jailbroken devices. I'm guessing you'd still need it to use the streaming functionality, however.


----------



## Fofer

windracer said:


> It looks like with today's 2.0.2 release of the TiVo app, xCon is no longer necessary to get the app to run on jailbroken devices. I'm guessing you'd still need it to use the streaming functionality, however.


Wow, that's even MORE great news. I might have to test this out to see what's what.


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## BigJimOutlaw

I can confirm that... looks like non-Stream owning jailbreakers can use the app normally again. Update your app!


----------



## Tivogre

Oh no... I just tried to start a stream on my iPad, and got the dreaded Serious Problem screen from my Elite!!!

Hopefully a one time thing or a coincidence...


----------



## Dan203

I saw that once on my S3 and thought for sure the drive died. But after it did it's ing it came back up and worked perfectly for another couple years. 

Dan


----------



## Tivogre

It's back up this morning. I'm just hoping that the request to stream didn't CAUSE this. The timing was suspect.


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## SMWinnie

The disconcerting poll data on reliability notwithstanding, I decided to give it a try.

Got the last Stream at the local B&M Best Buy. Got it home, attached it to the network, found it in the TiVo iPad app and went through the update cycle.

After five or so reboots, I'm stuck on activation, because TiVo's website has the relevant account maintenance page offline...until tomorrow. I'm waiting now in chat and, for some reason, moving backward in the queue.

After about ten minutes, I got through to [TiVo RightNow CSR], who tells me that the requisite system is offline and helpfully suggests that I wait until tomorrow to set up the Stream. ("No activation for you! Come back one day!") This is an excellent idea, except that the reason I went out today was (1) to install the Stream on the weekend when I actually have some free time, and (2) so I can sideload some stuff for the trip that I'm going to take tomorrow.

The fun thing is, I'm afraid to kill the TiVo app on my iPad due to the anecdotes here about how brittle the initial setup process is.

Oh, goody. TiVo sent me a survey request. Five points for [TiVo RightNow CSR] and one point and a "Not Likely to Recommend" for the overall experience.

This is just a stop-dead issue for a new Stream, right? If some poor schmuck talked his parents into getting a TiVo Premiere, he's not sitting there with an M-card trying to explain that his folks really don't want to go back to the &*@Q!%# Time Warner box, is he?


----------



## innocentfreak

Hmm I wonder if they are changing pricing again or something. It is odd for them to take down the activation page.


----------



## SullyND

innocentfreak said:


> Hmm I wonder if they are changing pricing again or something. It is odd for them to take down the activation page.


Did you see the sticky?


----------



## innocentfreak

SullyND said:


> Did you see the sticky?


Yes I did.

Last time they changed pricing they had the issue where people were able to buy the $99 TiVos and activate them with the old pricing.


----------



## atmuscarella

innocentfreak said:


> Yes I did.
> 
> Last time they changed pricing they had the issue where people were able to buy the $99 TiVos and activate them with the old pricing.


Ya that was a great deal for some of us . I ended up with a new premiere with lifetime service for $300 (+ sales tax).


----------



## SMWinnie

Following up: Once I got the Stream set up and got the hang of transfers (plug the iPad into a charger, start the transfer, leave the process in the foreground and walk away), the Stream is doing more or less exactly what I bought it for. Low user-interaction sideloading of a few hours of stuff to watch on an airplane with excellent quality.

For me, at least, this is now an easy-to-use device that makes my TiVos more useful. Definitely worth the $130.


----------



## ducker

Anyone turn off their stream when they aren't using it? It's been well documented that it runs on he hot side, and I've also seen network activity to the Stream even when I'm not utilizing it. This got me thinking, perhaps when I'm at work or away for an extended time, I could just unplug it, save on the power - and potentially extend the Stream's life (if it is heat that is causing some of these to fail)


----------



## ellinj

My only real complaint with this device is that the volume is a bit low on the ipad. Would love it if Tivo applied some volume boost during the decode.


----------



## Tenzarian

Could always fix that with a volume boost app?


----------



## Fofer

Tenzarian said:


> Could always fix that with a volume boost app?


How? The Stream sideloads directly onto the iPad's TiVo app. There's no app/utility that would allow you to edit these files or otherwise affect the volume output.


----------



## dan3413

windracer said:


> Heh, that doesn't work with the Brighthouse streaming app since in addition to jailbreak it also checks for VPN!


That is not true any more! The BHTV app works fine..via VPN. The only key is you have to wait a few seconds after it warns you to turn off the VPN. - then it seems to work fine. Lmk if you still can't get it working because I can walk you through how I set it up.. However tivo app does not work (even with the Stream) which is frustrating because so many of the shows have copyright protection on them.


----------



## windracer

dan3413 said:


> That is not true any more! The BHTV app works fine..via VPN. The only key is you have to wait a few seconds after it warns you to turn off the VPN. - then it seems to work fine.


This still isn't working for me ... the app just stops at the "disable VPN in the iOS settings menu, then restart Brighthouse TV" screen. Can you provide more details on how you got this to work?


----------

