# RECAST for $100 off



## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

Another reason to make the change....

Amazon's Fire TV Recast DVR box is $100 off today


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

tommiet said:


> Another reason to make the change....
> 
> Amazon's Fire TV Recast DVR box is $100 off today


These boxes are really becoming great deals. If I didn't already have a couple of SD Quattro tuners I'd jump on this one.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

That’s $130 for the 500GB/2Tuner or $180 for the 1TB/4Tuner (prime members only). Lowest price ever. 

With OTA and Pluto all in the same guide, feels like cable. I rarely use my DirecTV NOW at all anymore.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

mdavej said:


> That's $130 for the 500GB/2Tuner or $180 for the 1TB/4Tuner (prime members only). Lowest price ever.
> 
> With OTA and Pluto all in the same guide, feels like cable. I rarely use my DirecTV NOW at all anymore.


Have you had any issues with your Recast? I was reading some recent reviews and many are not very favorable - guide issues, missed recordings, buffering and connection issues. It also sounds like Amazon has not released any updates or fixed any bugs since the device was first introduced last November.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

I'm enjoying mine.... ZERO issues with remote access.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Adam C. said:


> Have you had any issues with your Recast? I was reading some recent reviews and many are not very favorable - guide issues, missed recordings, buffering and connection issues. It also sounds like Amazon has not released any updates or fixed any bugs since the device was first introduced last November.


Links to "some recent reviews" please. (??)


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

mdavej said:


> .......
> With OTA and Pluto all in the same guide, feels like cable. .......


And PlaystationVue, with which you can replace your current cable channels, probably at a slight cost savings, and with DVR functionality.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

dlfl said:


> Links to "some recent reviews" please. (??)


Other opinions:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/42-h...azon-recast-ota-dvr-formerly-known-frank.html


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

JoeKustra said:


> Other opinions:
> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/42-h...azon-recast-ota-dvr-formerly-known-frank.html


Err.. yeah, although I have to wonder how many folks will read almost 500 posts to find the "other opinions". I was reading that thread for a while before it got so big. Are the opinions about Recast generally favorable, or negative, or mixed?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Adam C. said:


> Have you had any issues with your Recast? I was reading some recent reviews and many are not very favorable - guide issues, missed recordings, buffering and connection issues. It also sounds like Amazon has not released any updates or fixed any bugs since the device was first introduced last November.


Kind of bumpy at first. But I've gotten at least 5 updates since November that I can remember. Lots of bug fixes. Pretty solid now in the areas you mentioned. But I use a wired connection to the Recast. That probably helps reduce connection/buffering issues.

My OTA guide has been fine. Sometimes Pluto guide needs a kick in the pants.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

dlfl said:


> Links to "some recent reviews" please. (??)


Go to Amazon and sort the product reviews by Most Recent.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

mdavej said:


> But I use a wired connection to the Recast. That probably helps reduce connection/buffering issues.


But don't you still need a solid wireless connection between the Recast and each individual Firestick? I think that's where people were having issues. One of my TV's is in a room with a relatively poor wireless connection so I think that would cause problems for me.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mdavej said:


> That's $130 for the 500GB/2Tuner or $180 for the 1TB/4Tuner (prime members only). Lowest price ever.
> 
> With OTA and Pluto all in the same guide, feels like cable. I rarely use my DirecTV NOW at all anymore.


And if you subscribe to HBO, Showtime, Starz or Cinemax via Prime Video Channels, then the live channels for those services are also integrated into that same guide too. Same holds true for PS Vue. All of its live cable channels get integrated into the main Fire TV live TV guide alongside OTA, Pluto TV, etc.

Interesting that Amazon has figured this out ahead of anyone else.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

This kind of feels like a clearance sale to me. Either Amazon is coming out with newer models and wants to dump the old ones first, or Amazon just wants to get out of the DVR business altogether.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

dlfl said:


> And PlaystationVue, with which you can replace your current cable channels, probably at a slight cost savings, and with DVR functionality.


Yeah, I have DirecTV NOW for that. Had PS Vue for years which I loved until they ruined their lineup.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Adam C. said:


> But don't you still need a solid wireless connection between the Recast and each individual Firestick? I think that's where people were having issues. One of my TV's is in a room with a relatively poor wireless connection so I think that would cause problems for me.


No doubt. My WiFi is solid. So I'm not having any issues. I use the Moca I had set up for TiVo plus a couple of bridges to get strong WiFi and wired connections in every room. You can also add wired Ethernet to any stick with an adapter.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> And if you subscribe to HBO, Showtime, Starz or Cinemax via Prime Video Channels, then the live channels for those services are also integrated into that same guide too. Same holds true for PS Vue. All of its live cable channels get integrated into the main Fire TV live TV guide alongside OTA, Pluto TV, etc.
> 
> Interesting that Amazon has figured this out ahead of anyone else.


I have to wonder if it's not so much a matter of figuring something out technically but simply having the surplus cash to afford the development; and, additionally, I still have a feeling that TiVo has to be careful with development of their OTA DVR, to avoid becoming a competitor of and angering their main customers, cable companies.


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## worachj (Oct 14, 2006)

> The Amazon Fire TV Recast is discounted on Amazon, ahead of Prime Day later this month. It is dropping down to just $129 for the 500GB model and $179 for the 1TB model.


Can't find this deal, can anyone help?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

worachj said:


> Can't find this deal, can anyone help?


Did you click on the link in the article? It took me right to the discounted price. (Though my Amazon account is subscribed to Amazon Prime, so I don't know if that makes a difference.)

edit: p.s. Ah, indeed: "You Save: $100.00 (43%) as a Prime member" So you'd need a family member or friend w/ a Prime account to make the purchase on your behalf. (And then get the device re-registered to your own Amazon account.)


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> I have to wonder if it's not so much a matter of figuring something out technically but simply having the surplus cash to afford the development; and, additionally, I still have a feeling that TiVo has to be careful with development of their OTA DVR, to avoid becoming a competitor of and angering their main customers, cable companies.


For Amazon, I think it was a lot of things all coming together, both on the technology side and the business model side. On the tech side, they were very smart to just take open-source Android, where most of the work was already done for them, largely by Google, and then craft their own UI and app store to help achieve their own business objectives.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Did you click on the link? It took me right to the discounted price. (Though my Amazon account is subscribed to Amazon Prime, so I don't know if that makes a difference.)
> 
> edit: p.s. Ah, indeed: "You Save: $100.00 (43%) as a Prime member" So you'd need a family member or friend w/ a Prime account to make the purchase on your behalf.


Yeah. Or you could join Prime yourself at $119 for a year or $13 for a single month. (You'd need to cancel before the 2nd monthly charge hits though.)


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

I ordered one to try out over the 4th when it is going to be way too hot to go outside and do anything. I was looking for something else when I discovered the deal, and it looked too good to pass up.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

These two caveats remain limiting, at least to me:

You can only register one Fire TV Recast per Amazon account.
You can watch live or recorded programs on any two of these devices simultaneously. (So that's 2 streams total, whether to STB or mobile device.)
Good to see that a Prime account isn't required for use of the Recast, though.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mdavej said:


> You can also add wired Ethernet to any stick with an adapter.


I did not know that. Interesting.

https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Ethernet-Adapter-Fire-Devices/dp/B074TC662N


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> Yeah. Or you could join Prime yourself at $119 for a year or $13 for a single month. (You'd need to cancel before the 2nd monthly charge hits though.)


Sure, but then it's not $100 off, anymore.


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## worachj (Oct 14, 2006)

krkaufman said:


> edit: p.s. Ah, indeed: "You Save: $100.00 (43%) as a Prime member" So you'd need a family member or friend w/ a Prime account to make the purchase on your behalf. (And then get the device re-registered to your own Amazon account.)


Thanks, missed that you need to be a Prime member.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

worachj said:


> Thanks, missed that you need to be a Prime member.


Well, it wasn't mentioned anywhere in the article linked in the OP. ("Prime Day" is mentioned in the article, but the Prime requirement for the current $100-off was not.)

p.s. Checked via a logged-out session and confirmed:

Price: $229.99 & FREE Shipping. 
Join Prime to save $100.00 on this item​Tweeted this fact at the article's author.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> Did you click on the link in the article? It took me right to the discounted price. (Though my Amazon account is subscribed to Amazon Prime, so I don't know if that makes a difference.)
> 
> edit: p.s. Ah, indeed: "You Save: $100.00 (43%) as a Prime member" So you'd need a family member or friend w/ a Prime account to make the purchase on your behalf. (And then get the device re-registered to your own Amazon account.)


You can also open a Prime account and if you cancel it within 30 days, you get your money back..


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## pj1983 (Dec 26, 2016)

It's an interesting offer but I already have an AIP Roamio OTA I don't use; I think I'll wait until Prime Day or the holiday season to see what drops.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Sure, but then it's not $100 off, anymore.


Sign up for one month of Prime at $13 and then think of the Recast as being $87 off. Plus you'll get a month of Prime Video to watch on your new device. ;-)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> Sign up for one month of Prime at $13 and then think of the Recast as being $87 off. Plus you'll get a month of Prime Video to watch on your new device. ;-)


Winning suggestion:


tommiet said:


> You can also open a Prime account and if you cancel it within 30 days, you get your money back..


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Winning suggestion:
> ​


Kind of a skanky move, IMO. But then it's hard to feel sorry for a corporate behemoth like Amazon...


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> Kind of a skanky move, IMO. But then it's hard to feel sorry for a corporate behemoth like Amazon...


Unless the terms of service say the refund is only eligible to users who made no purchases during the 30-day window, it would be strictly within the terms of the agreement ... which is entirely controlled by the company.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

NashGuy said:


> Kind of a skanky move, IMO. But then it's hard to feel sorry for a corporate behemoth like Amazon...


Amazon offers a 30 day refund policy. I'm sure a ton of folks will purchase Prime for just the 2 day sale Amazon will have this week. I'm sure Amazon knows the "churn" they will get this month.... Just like Cable TV.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Adam C. said:


> Go to Amazon and sort the product reviews by Most Recent.


OK did that. I counted the verified-purchase ratings at different star levels posted during the last two months (May and June 2019):
4 or 5 star = 173
3 star = 27
1 or 2 star = 68

Personally these would not deter me from buying a Recast, especially since Amazon has a good return policy. Recast performance does depend on OTA antenna performance and home network performance. Some of the bad reviews were due to these factors and a few were people who expected Recast to do things it doesn't claim to do (e.g., record Netflix shows, or provide better than 720p resolution, or stream more than two programs at a time).

I believe people are more likely to post bad ratings than good ones. Many very good products that I use have quite a few one- and two-star amazon reviews.

I would be interested in seeing any review other than those on Amazon that claims the Recast falls seriously short of doing what it is advertised to do.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> These two caveats remain limiting, at least to me:
> 
> You can only register one Fire TV Recast per Amazon account.
> You can watch live or recorded programs on any two of these devices simultaneously. (So that's 2 streams total, whether to STB or mobile device.)
> Good to see that a Prime account isn't required for use of the Recast, though.


Seems like one should purchase the 4 tuner model since only one recast is permitted per account. If Tivo ever has an app for the Fire TV again, they might have a competitive advantage because there is a path to adding additional trans-coded stream capacity with a Roamio Plus/Pro or a Tivo Stream device used in conjunction with an OTA Tivo.


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## JohnS-MI (Jan 25, 2014)

I really wish they would add an HDMI output, so I could connect my main TV (and receiver) that way and have original resolution. The 720p would be fine for a tablet or secondary TVs around the house. If they had that, I'd bail on Tivo. Without that, it *might* be the eventual replacement for my Tivo when it fails, but I'd look to see what else there is.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

shwru980r said:


> Seems like one should purchase the 4 tuner model since only one recast is permitted per account.


Just $50 more for double the tuners, double the storage capacity almost seems like a test.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JohnS-MI said:


> I really wish they would add an HDMI output, so I could connect my main TV (and receiver) that way and have original resolution. The 720p would be fine for a tablet or secondary TVs around the house. If they had that, I'd bail on Tivo. Without that, it *might* be the eventual replacement for my Tivo when it fails, but I'd look to see what else there is.


Or just allowed the original received encode to be streamed to any compatible wired clients (assuming the Recast is also wired), both improving the resolution and bumping-up the "2 stream max" limitation.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

Does the Recast allow you to watch live or recorded shows outside of your home (phone or tablet)? My Slingbox has been going on the fritz. Since I'm OTA anyway this might be a better solution than another Slingbox.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Adam C. said:


> Does the Recast allow you to watch live or recorded shows outside of your home (*phone or tablet*)?


Yes.

Quoting the product FAQ:


> Can I watch live and recorded TV and schedule recordings when I'm not at home?
> 
> You can watch live or recorded programs, and you can record shows airing live, when you are on the go in the Fire TV mobile app using cellular or Wi-Fi connection.
> 
> You can only watch live or recorded programs on your Fire TV streaming media player, Fire TV Edition television or Echo Show if those devices are connected to the same network as your Fire TV Recast.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Can you transfer OTA recordings from the recast to a PC?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> Can you transfer OTA recordings from the recast to a PC?


?? How, and why, to pull video recording files off of the Amazon Fire TV Recast DVR


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

krkaufman said:


> ?? How, and why, to pull video recording files off of the Amazon Fire TV Recast DVR


So not really. I mean you have to take the whole thing apart and remove the hard drive, hardly a viable solution for most people.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Intriguing... I have been hungry for a new toy to play around with... Might this be "it"?



(Off I go to YouTube to see if anyone has a decent video review...)


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Interesting... This was a good video...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

So the way this works is actually similar to how TiVo streams to mobile. It records the shows at full quality and then it transcodes on the fly to stream to the FireTV devices? Does the trickplay have the same type of issues with buffering when you need to jump more than a few seconds? 

The fact that it's limited to two screens, no matter how many tuners it has, and that you can only put one on your network seems to be pretty limiting. Can't imagine these would be very popular with families.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

Adam C. said:


> Does the Recast allow you to watch live or recorded shows outside of your home (phone or tablet)? My Slingbox has been going on the fritz. Since I'm OTA anyway this might be a better solution than another Slingbox.


It does.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> Just $50 more for double the tuners, double the storage capacity almost seems like a test.


Agree... Once I decide whether I am going to pull the trigger, this is the one I will get (the double storage, double the tuners)...


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

krkaufman said:


> I have to wonder if it's not so much a matter of figuring something out technically but simply having the surplus cash to afford the development; and, additionally, I still have a feeling that TiVo has to be careful with development of their OTA DVR, to avoid becoming a competitor of and angering their main customers, cable companies.


I don't think the *teeter-tottering *TiVo, the elephant on the stool is going to get stepped on by the smart ass cable mice. Rather, in the enthusiasm here for a competitive product. TiVo should be doubling down on the TiVo Edge, which looks like their next and last stand for them stay alive.

It's not like TiVo has big or enough tiny cable companies to save them from another train wreck.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> So the way this works is actually similar to how TiVo streams to mobile. It records the shows at full quality and then it transcodes on the fly to stream to the FireTV devices? Does the trickplay have the same type of issues with buffering when you need to jump more than a few seconds?
> 
> The fact that it's limited to two screens, no matter how many tuners it has, and that you can only put one on your network seems to be pretty limiting. Can't imagine these would be very popular with families.


Keep in mind you only have to record (and stream from the box) OTA shows that are NOT already available to stream with other platforms, websites or apps. Many of these streaming services do not include local channels, so the Recast supplements them.

Also, my kids don't watch TV at all. It's just my wife and I. Two tuners is plenty.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

BobCamp1 said:


> Keep in mind you only have to record (and stream from the box) OTA shows that are NOT already available to stream with other platforms, websites or apps. Many of these streaming services do not include local channels, so the Recast supplements them.
> 
> Also, my kids don't watch TV at all. It's just my wife and I. Two tuners is plenty.


Maybe. I haven't used it so I haven't seen how well they integrate recordings with OTT offerings. Do they integrate OTT skinny bundle services like PSVue or DTVNow that have their own DVR functionality?


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

BobCamp1 said:


> Keep in mind you only have to record (and stream from the box) OTA shows that are NOT already available to stream with other platforms, websites or apps. Many of these streaming services do not include local channels, so the Recast supplements them.
> 
> Also, my kids don't watch TV at all. It's just my wife and I. Two tuners is plenty.


Keep in mind that it's not how many people are watching that impacts the number of tuners needed. It is the amount of simultaneous content you want to record. And also keep in mind that whatever you are currently watching takes up one of the tuners (which gives you the ability to pause and rewind live television).

So if you and your wife are watching the evening news, and you want to be able to record "Law and Order SVU" and "The Grammy Awards", which just happen to overlap... You'll be SOL with the 2-tuner version, but will be fine with the 4-tuner version.

You'd be surprised how often content you and your wife are interested in are playing at the same time (or have some short overlap)...

Two tuners closely mimics the old VCR model... You can watch one and record one at the same time.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

Adam C. said:


> Does the Recast allow you to watch live or recorded shows outside of your home (phone or tablet)? My Slingbox has been going on the fritz. Since I'm OTA anyway this might be a better solution than another Slingbox.


Yes.... I use it every day with ZERO issues.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

I've been using a 4 channel Recast for about 5 months. I connect to it remotely almost daily. Zero connection issues (unlike my TiVo.) If you purchase a Recast and don't like it, send it back. Amazon's return policy is great.

I'm hoping for updates to skip commercials....

Note: Amazon is yet to give me $$$ for these endorsements. lol...


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> Maybe. I haven't used it so I haven't seen how well they integrate recordings with OTT offerings. Do they integrate OTT skinny bundle services like PSVue or DTVNow that have their own DVR functionality?


I believe up-thread PSVue and Pluto are mentioned as being integrated into the channel guide.

This recent Amazon Fire TV blog post may provide more info...

Introducing the new Live tab on Fire TV


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Interesting... I just read a review from the amazon site, and a reviewer noted that four tuners does NOT allow you to record four programs simultaneously...

Apparently two of the tuners support live television on two separate devices, and the other two tuners can simultaneously record content... Still better than the limitations of the 2-tuner set up... But it's not as flexible and feature-rich as I assumed.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Adam C. said:


> Have you had any issues with your Recast? I was reading some recent reviews and many are not very favorable - *guide issues*, missed recordings, buffering and *connection issues*. It also sounds like Amazon has not released any updates or fixed any bugs since the device was first introduced last November.


I'm so glad that my TiVo boxes are not having that . . . . 


tarheelblue32 said:


> This kind of feels like a clearance sale to me. Either Amazon is coming out with newer models and wants to dump the old ones first, or Amazon just wants to get out of the DVR business altogether.


Or, Amazon is doing what it can afford to do, to try to capture the field. It's nice to be rich.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

MikeekiM said:


> Interesting... I just read a review from the amazon site, and a reviewer noted that four tuners does NOT allow you to record four programs simultaneously...
> 
> Apparently two of the tuners support live television on two separate devices, and the other two tuners can simultaneously record content... Still better than the limitations of the 2-tuner set up... But it's not as flexible and feature-rich as I assumed.


What?!? That seems crazy.

If anything like the TiVos, the tuners are unrelated to the ability to mobile stream (transcode).

edit: p.s. Here's the related FAQ entry:


> How many programs can I record at once? Can I record a program while watching another live or recorded program?
> 
> With a 2-tuner Fire TV Recast, you can either:
> 
> ...


So, same as a 4-tuner BOLT, really, watching Live TV consumes a tuner (of course), reducing the tuners available for recording, and simultaneously capable of mobile streaming to up to 2 devices.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> Maybe. I haven't used it so I haven't seen how well they integrate recordings with OTT offerings. Do they integrate OTT skinny bundle services like PSVue or DTVNow that have their own DVR functionality?


I asked a similar question on the AVR forum:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/42-h...-dvr-formerly-known-frank-9.html#post57289756
The answer is the PSVue and Recast (OTA) channels are integrated in the Fire TV's program guide, but the DVR functions are not, i.e., PSVue DVR functions must done via the PSVue app.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

tommiet said:


> You can also open a Prime account and if you cancel it within 30 days, you get your money back..


Likewise, someone who has not activated a free 1-month Prime trial subscription in the past, or in the recent past, may have a free offer from Amazon to do so. Presumably would work for a Recast purchase as well.

The offer often shows up for me when I go to my Amazon.com cart, or start the checkout process. I have read some posts that Amazon provides the offer on a pretty-much annual basis.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

dlfl said:


> OK did that. I counted the verified-purchase ratings at different star levels posted during the last two months (May and June 2019):
> 4 or 5 star = 173
> 3 star = 27
> 1 or 2 star = 68
> ...


Perhaps a helpful review, providing balance: Amazon Fire TV Recast.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

dlfl said:


> OK did that. I counted the verified-purchase ratings at different star levels posted during the last two months (May and June 2019):
> 4 or 5 star = 173
> 3 star = 27
> 1 or 2 star = 68
> ...


I normally dump the high and low ratings... Go with the middle. Also... 30 days and if you don't like it send it back. Try that with a TiVo.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Mikeguy said:


> Or, Amazon is doing what it can afford to do, to try to capture the field. It's nice to be rich.


I think the term for that is "dumping". 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy)[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy)"]Dumping (pricing policy) - Wikipedia


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I think the term for that is "dumping".
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy)[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy)']Dumping (pricing policy) - Wikipedia


Yep. [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy)'][URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy)']I took your earlier post reference to dumping as Amazon trying to get rid of its earlier model stock, as vs. the policy explained in Wikipedia.[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy)']


tarheelblue32 said:


> This kind of feels like a clearance sale to me. Either Amazon is coming out with newer models and wants to dump the old ones first, or Amazon just wants to get out of the DVR business altogether.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Mikeguy said:


> I took your earlier post reference to dumping as Amazon trying to get rid of its earlier model stock, as vs. the policy explained in Wikipedia.


"Dumping" is when you price something below cost to try to gain market share and drive competitors out of business. A mere sale to get rid of inventory in anticipation of a new version isn't dumping.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

tarheelblue32 said:


> "Dumping" is when you price something below cost to try to gain market share and drive competitors out of business. A mere sale to get rid of inventory in anticipation of a new version isn't dumping.


Yes, I understand that, and I hadn't taken your earlier post and its reference that Amazon could be trying to dump inventory as that--the reason I raised the possibility that Amazon could be engaging in predatory pricing here.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

tarheelblue32 said:


> This kind of feels like a clearance sale to me. Either Amazon is coming out with newer models and wants to dump the old ones first, or Amazon just wants to get out of the DVR business altogether.


Why would they want to get out of the DVR business? (Although I'm not sure why they wanted to be in it, either.)


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> What?!? That seems crazy.
> 
> If anything like the TiVos, the tuners are unrelated to the ability to mobile stream (transcode).
> 
> ...


OK... Nice... Just to be clear, I was reporting what I read in the review...not based on any knowledge I have on this product... Here is the text excerpt from the review (titled "Four tuners doesn't really mean four tuners") word-for-word:

I called Amazon support and they informed me that the 4 tuner model can only record 2 shows and watch 2 shows even if you are watching the same channel. I find this to be kind of a big flaw that they don't mention in the description. I think 'four tuners' is false advertising as one would assume you could use all of them at the same time or any combination of watching or recording that adds up to 4.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

MikeekiM said:


> OK... Nice... Just to be clear, I was reporting what I read in the review...not based on any knowledge I have on this product... Here is the text excerpt from the review (titled "Four tuners doesn't really mean four tuners") word-for-word:
> 
> I called Amazon support and they informed me that the 4 tuner model can only record 2 shows and watch 2 shows even if you are watching the same channel. I find this to be kind of a big flaw that they don't mention in the description. I think 'four tuners' is false advertising as one would assume you could use all of them at the same time or any combination of watching or recording that adds up to 4.


What does "record 2 shows and watch 2 shows _even if you are watching the same channel_" mean? (The same channel as what?)

Anyway here is what Amazon says in the FAQ you linked:


> With a 4-tuner Fire TV Recast, you can either:
> 
> 
> Record up to 4 programs at once;
> ...


To me this sounds like everything you could expect to do with 4 tuners and a maximum of 2 watched streams.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

I agree... Sounds like it does exactly what you'd expect... assuming that the Amazon FAQ is correct, and not the reviewers comment (which supposedly based on contacting Amazon support)...

I trust the FAQ more than a review though...


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

MikeekiM said:


> I agree... Sounds like it does exactly what you'd expect... assuming that the Amazon FAQ is correct, and not the reviewers comment (which supposedly based on contacting Amazon support)...
> 
> I trust the FAQ more than a review though...


I'd suggest flagging that review as "not helpful."


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> I'd suggest flagging that review as "not helpful."


I don't do that... What I mean is that I have made it a point not to participate in Amazon reviews, including flagging reviews as helpful or not helpful... I don't know why.... I just don't do it... I guess that makes me a bad social media participant... LOL... I also don't write reviews for Yelp, or post on Facebook...

And I don't wear my lack of participation in social media like a badge of honor like some folks do... I just have chosen not to do it is all... I might in the future...I am open to the fact that I might...but at this point, I am not...

I will provide a link to the review for those that want to flag it as "not helpful".

Here's the direct link to the review:

Four tuners doesn't really mean four tuners


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

It’s clear that the review was wrong. No need to keep posting it. That only spreads more misinformation. 

I’m pretty sure I’ve recorded 4 things at once on several occasions.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

dlfl said:


> Why would they want to get out of the DVR business? (Although I'm not sure why they wanted to be in it, either.)


Maybe you answered you own question?  (I actually think that entering the field might have been a good decision, as a further Amazon ecosphere matter.)


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## David B Gregory (Feb 26, 2018)

tommiet said:


> Another reason to make the change....
> 
> Amazon's Fire TV Recast DVR box is $100 off today


Just bought my 4 tuner 1 tb


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

Can anyone who owns both a TiVo (Roamio or Bolt) and Recast, and has connected each to the same OTA antenna provide a comparison as to how the OTA signal PQ of the Recast compares to their TiVo?

I’m not talking about HD resolution, but OTA signal stability, robustness, lack of pixelization, etc. 

There’ve been many comparisons on these boards between how the various TiVo models perform in this regards, and I’d like to know how the Recast compares.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

MikeekiM said:


> Interesting... I just read a review from the amazon site, and a reviewer noted that four tuners does NOT allow you to record four programs simultaneously...
> 
> Apparently two of the tuners support live television on two separate devices, and the other two tuners can simultaneously record content... Still better than the limitations of the 2-tuner set up... But it's not as flexible and feature-rich as I assumed.


About what you'd expect from a review on the Internet: misinformed individuals who don't bother to RTFM.


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## d_anders (Oct 12, 2000)

tarheelblue32 said:


> This kind of feels like a clearance sale to me. Either Amazon is coming out with newer models and wants to dump the old ones first, or Amazon just wants to get out of the DVR business altogether.


What's also interesting is that this ahead of the Prime Days on July 15-16.

I am going to wait until Black Friday before considering one.

Additionally, I'm still tied to my cable card with Comcast. I've done the math and it's a wash financially based on the networks and regional sports we watch compared to Sling or YouTube tv etc.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

pfiagra said:


> Can anyone who owns both a TiVo (Roamio or Bolt) and Recast, and has connected each to the same OTA antenna provide a comparison as to how the OTA signal PQ of the Recast compares to their TiVo?
> 
> I'm not talking about HD resolution, but OTA signal stability, robustness, lack of pixelization, etc.
> 
> There've been many comparisons on these boards between how the various TiVo models perform in this regards, and I'd like to know how the Recast compares.


And preferably do this comparison with the identical cable input from the antenna. If done with two input cables from a splitter or amplifier, switch the cables between the two device inputs before reaching a conclusion (to rule out differences due to imperfect splits or imbalanced amplifier outputs.)


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

mdavej said:


> It's clear that the review was wrong. No need to keep posting it. That only spreads more misinformation.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I've recorded 4 things at once on several occasions.


And only those who have actually purchased a Recast should even consider putting anything on the Amazon review. I wish Amazon would only allow reviews or comments from verified purchases.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

dlfl said:


> I wish Amazon would only allow reviews or comments from verified purchases.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

pfiagra said:


> Can anyone who owns both a TiVo (Roamio or Bolt) and Recast, and has connected each to the same OTA antenna provide a comparison as to how the OTA signal PQ of the Recast compares to their TiVo?
> 
> I'm not talking about HD resolution, but OTA signal stability, robustness, lack of pixelization, etc.
> 
> There've been many comparisons on these boards between how the various TiVo models perform in this regards, and I'd like to know how the Recast compares.


I have both. But I don't have two identical displays I can watch side-by-side. So I have to rely on memory while switching between sources.

Based on my past experience, not an active comparison, Recast is pretty close to Tivo, meaning the stations that have a good signal work fine, and the ones with a weak signal don't work so well on either platform. The major differences (besides lower resolution) are the few seconds it takes to ramp up to HD (similar to Netflix) and the annoying "Weak" signal pop-up on weak stations.

Recast has a terrible signal meter. It basically shows good or not good, and is utterly useless for fine tuning or aiming (or comparing to Tivo). I have to hook the antenna directly to my TV (or Tivo) and use its signal meter for that kind of thing.

Another kind of annoying thing is that the guide doesn't show channel numbers, only call letters. You don't see the number unless you're tuned to the channel. Although, you can say, "Watch channel 3 point 1" and it will tune to that channel. Call letters don't work very well when you have a dozen "PBS" channels and sub channels in your market like I do. In the guide I have a page full of "PBS".

There's no doubt the Recast is a poor man's Tivo - no commercial skip, no quick mode, no 1080i, no signal meter to speak of, etc. But it can run tons more apps and is cheap and easy to put in other rooms, the primary reasons I use it in lieu of Tivo. If Tivo could run OTT apps, I'd never have even considered Recast. But they've been way too slow to adapt to the new streaming landscape.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

@krkaufman, I see you posted a comment on that review setting the record straight. Nicely done.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

mdavej said:


> *Another kind of annoying thing is that the guide doesn't show channel numbers, only call letters. *You don't see the number unless you're tuned to the channel. Although, you can say, "Watch channel 3 point 1" and it will tune to that channel. Call letters don't work very well when you have a dozen "PBS" channels and sub channels in your market like I do. In the guide I have a page full of "PBS".
> 
> There's no doubt the Recast is a poor man's Tivo - no commercial skip, no quick mode, no 1080i, no signal meter to speak of, etc. But it can run tons more apps and is cheap and easy to put in other rooms, the primary reasons I use it in lieu of Tivo. If Tivo could run OTT apps, I'd never have even considered Recast. But they've been way too slow to adapt to the new streaming landscape.


Now, _that's_ just silly of Amazon. As an OTA guy, I rarely know the call letters, I know the channel number.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

d_anders said:


> *What's also interesting is that this ahead of the Prime Days on July 15-16. *
> 
> I am going to wait until Black Friday before considering one.
> 
> Additionally, I'm still tied to my cable card with Comcast. I've done the math and it's a wash financially based on the networks and regional sports we watch compared to Sling or YouTube tv etc.


Amazon is doing this a lot. E.g. the Echo Dot has come down 50% for awhile, now, to $24.99. Even the blogsters don't know what to make of it all and if further price declines will come.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Mikeguy said:


> Amazon is doing this a lot. E.g. the Echo Dot has come down 50% for awhile, now, to $24.99. Even the blogsters don't know what to make of it all and if further price declines will come.


Sometimes, Amazon may just be engaging in two-tier pricing, as do many other retailers, i.e., one price for those who are not price conscious, and better bargains for those who are willing to wait for mark-downs or use coupons, or bargain. I bet they make a profit even at their lowest prices. And each purchaser is another opportunity to increase prime video sales.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> Now, _that's_ just silly of Amazon. As an OTA guy, I rarely know the call letters, I know the channel number.


But then the Fire TV remotes don't have any numbers, right?


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

I await the 2.0 (next) version of Recast. Amazon seems to really, greatly improve second versions of their products. The second version of the Show is magnificent compared to the first, just as one example. Often, when Amazon offers a steep discount not connected to any promotion, it usually means the next version of the product will soon be announced.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

dlfl said:


> And only those who have actually purchased a Recast should even consider putting anything on the Amazon review. I wish Amazon would only allow reviews or comments from verified purchases.


 or or at least get rid of these one or two-word reviews that say "works well" or "yeah, I like it" or "great product." I would say those are clearly phony reviews designed to Simply to push the average star rating up.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

Series3Sub said:


> or or at least get rid of these one or two-word reviews that say "works well" or "yeah, I like it" or "great product." I would say those are clearly phony reviews designed to Simply to push the average star rating up.


Amazon should require the reviewer to be a verified purchase, and also make the buyer wait at least 1 week before posting a review. This would give the person time to actually use the product to make a fair assessment. There are so many reviews that will say "I have only been using this for a day..." And when there are negative reviews, half the time it's someone who doesn't know how to properly use the product or never understood the true intent or capability of the product before buying it..."This blender does not make good coffee..."


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

Well, whatever their ploy, it worked on me. I was planning on trying one of these out sooner or later, and the deal made me pull the trigger now. If I don't like it enough, I will probably try the Tablo out next.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

ncted said:


> Well, whatever their ploy, it worked on me. I was planning on trying one of these out sooner or later, and the deal made me pull the trigger now. If I don't like it enough, I will probably try the Tablo out next.


I came pretty close to buying too. But since my Roamio OTA is working great and the Recast would be nothing more than a toy for me at this point, I think I'll just wait and see if they announce a new model or perhaps discount even further.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> But then the Fire TV remotes don't have any numbers, right?


Another demerit . . . .


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> But then the Fire TV remotes don't have any numbers, right?


There are third party remotes for the firetv that do. And full keyboards as well. Never really felt I needed one but they exist for not much money.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> Now, _that's_ just silly of Amazon. As an OTA guy, I rarely know the call letters, I know the channel number.


No, you don't. Hardly anybody knows the REAL channel numbers. All those channel numbers you see are fake, remnants of their NTSC counterparts. They only exist because TVs have numeric remotes. But modern remotes no longer have numbers.

I actually had the opposite problem the other day. My Dad, a recent cord cutter, didn't know the OTA channel number for the CW (to watch a Yankees game) so he called me. The channel still refers to itself as CW6, even though it's on OTA channel 3.2, which is actually on ATSC channel 24, which is the same channel number as NTSC PBS was using. The CW is moving to channel 19 soon for the Great Repack. It's also on channels 866, 506, and 14 depending on your provider. But nowhere is it actually on channel 6.

So exactly which channel number of WSTQ were you referring to?


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

BobCamp1 said:


> No, you don't. Hardly anybody knows the REAL channel numbers. All those channel numbers you see are fake, remnants of their NTSC counterparts. They only exist because TVs have numeric remotes. *But modern remotes no longer have numbers.*
> 
> I actually had the opposite problem the other day. My Dad, a recent cord cutter, didn't know the OTA channel number for the CW (to watch a Yankees game) so he called me. The channel still refers to itself as CW6, even though it's on OTA channel 3.2, which is actually on ATSC channel 24, which is the same channel number as NTSC PBS was using. The CW is moving to channel 19 soon for the Great Repack. It's also on channels 866, 506, and 14 depending on your provider. But nowhere is it actually on channel 6.
> 
> So exactly which channel number of WSTQ were you referring to?


Sure they do--it's some streaming device remotes that may not have numbers (as well as some foolish television remotes trying to look "sleek" and "modern"), in that Apple-dangerous way of sometimes placing form over substance. And I dare say that it's faster for me to punch in "5-1" (or even just "5")* on my television remote than to pull up a guide, scan through it potentially pages on end, and then finally select a call-letter listing. Albeit I currently am in a fairly solid, and sensical, OTA ecosphere (including where a channel calling itself channel 5 actually is on, surprise, channel 5).

*Regardless of whether this is the "real" channel number or the "fake" number, as you mention.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

BobCamp1 said:


> But nowhere is it actually on channel 6.


From Wiki:
In 2003, Raycom Media (then the owner of WSTM-TV) purchased WAWA-LP from Venture Technologies for an undisclosed amount. The station had its call letters changed to the current *WSTQ-LP* (a disambiguation from WSTM-TV) and was given the on-air branding "UPN 6, The Q".* Raycom used "6"* to reflect its pending cable channel slot on Time Warner which was obtained July 1, 2003 (replacing WSBK) following WSTQ-LP's acquisition by the company; carriage of WSTQ-LP was now required by Raycom to carry WSTM-TV under FCC regulations giving full-powered stations the option of "retransmission consent" for sister stations (and later, digital subchannels) or requesting compensation from cable systems to carry them. Also under Raycom ownership, the former surrounding home shopping and paid programs were drastically reduced and replaced with regular syndicated programming, and its operations were merged into WSTM's facilities.

WSTQ-LP - Wikipedia


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

Mikeguy said:


> Sure they do--it's some streaming device remotes that may not have numbers (as well as some foolish television remotes trying to look "sleek" and "modern"), in that Apple-dangerous way of sometimes placing form over substance. And I dare say that it's faster for me to punch in "5-1" (or even just "5")* on my television remote than to pull up a guide, scan through it potentially pages on end, and then finally select a call-letter listing. Albeit I currently am in a fairly solid, and sensical, OTA ecosphere (including where a channel calling itself channel 5 actually is on, surprise, channel 5).
> 
> *Regardless of whether this is the "real" channel number or the "fake" number, as you mention.


I agree it is faster, and that is one of my concerns with the Recast. That said, my wife always goes to the guide to tune a channel, even if she knows the channel number.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

ncted said:


> Well, whatever their ploy, it worked on me. I was planning on trying one of these out sooner or later, and the deal made me pull the trigger now. If I don't like it enough, I will probably try the Tablo out next.


Four or two tuner? It makes me laugh to see people who paid TiVo money for a DVR get all value conscious over a $130 purchase -- closer to $120 if you use an Amazon store card. Congratulations. I am sure you will be very happy.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

wizwor said:


> Four or two tuner? It makes me laugh to see people who paid TiVo money for a DVR get all value conscious over a $130 purchase -- closer to $120 if you use an Amazon store card. Congratulations. I am sure you will be very happy.


Kind of makes me wonder why Amazon even bothers with 2 different models given the relatively negligible price difference.


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

I have an Insignia FireTV edition in my bat-cave, so I am well experienced in trying to figure out how to tune Over The Air stations. As expected, most of the functionality of the TV interface is set to work with Alexa or the voice remote. There is a small TV icon button on the remote that allows you to bring up the guide grid, or simply pressing the bottom of the selector ring while watching live TV will bring up a selectable window array along the bottom of the screen of available channels. Alexa does ok, using the command "Tune to (network name)", although it doesn't seem to know where LAFF or THIS are, although it understands "MeTV" and "HeroesandIcons." As for multiple subs with the same name (looking at you, PBS) Alexa only tunes to the first one in the grid guide.

It's different, but you get used to it pretty quickly. I don't use Alexa for that, typically a couple of clicks on the remote, and Bob's your uncle. At least Amazon had the foresight to include a volume button on their remote, and the set will control my Yam-what-I-yam AV receiver through HDMI.

We have the HBO channel through Prime (allows us to access HBO through the Prime app on the Tivo's), and those channels are integrated on the program guide grid. Britbox does not appear, but that channel is all on-demand, not "live." 

I would suspect that the recast app tuning will function in the same way. I'm a tad curious if the live TV selections with the recast enabled will use the TV tuners, or the recast. 

Other small trick feature on the Insignia FireTV edition: it buffer's the current program to internal memory in the set, allowing you to rewind and replay from your starting point. No recast or other DVR required. The buffer clears when you change channels, sources, or turn off the set.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

Adam C. said:


> Kind of makes me wonder why Amazon even bothers with 2 different models given the relatively negligible price difference.


The two tuner DVR is for people who want to stream live OTA. Add two more tuners for people who want to record while watching live OTA. Historically, consumers have not been drawn to single or dual tuner DVRs. The addition of a second model accommodates the people who want to record while watching something else.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

wizwor said:


> Four or two tuner? It makes me laugh to see people who paid TiVo money for a DVR get all value conscious over a $130 purchase -- closer to $120 if you use an Amazon store card. Congratulations. I am sure you will be very happy.


Four tuner. The only Tivos I ever owned and didn't return were a couple of DirecTivos and a Roamio OTA which I spent all of $50 on. If it had survived, I would have just reactivated it. I don't know if I will be happy with the Recast or not. It is an experiment, hence my value consciousness.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

wizwor said:


> The two tuner DVR is for people who want to stream live OTA. Add two more tuners for people who want to record while watching live OTA. Historically, consumers have not been drawn to single or dual tuner DVRs. The addition of a second model accommodates the people who want to record while watching something else.


Right, my point was why even bother with the 2-tuner model, particularly when it's only $50 more to get 4 tuners.


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

That kind of depends on your setup and usage. With a split signal, a two-tuner device can record two different channels, while the user can view another live program using the TV's internal tuner. Different kettle of fish if the DVR is your only tuning location, of course.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> From Wiki:
> In 2003, Raycom Media (then the owner of WSTM-TV) purchased WAWA-LP from Venture Technologies for an undisclosed amount. The station had its call letters changed to the current *WSTQ-LP* (a disambiguation from WSTM-TV) and was given the on-air branding "UPN 6, The Q".* Raycom used "6"* to reflect its pending cable channel slot on Time Warner which was obtained July 1, 2003 (replacing WSBK) following WSTQ-LP's acquisition by the company; carriage of WSTQ-LP was now required by Raycom to carry WSTM-TV under FCC regulations giving full-powered stations the option of "retransmission consent" for sister stations (and later, digital subchannels) or requesting compensation from cable systems to carry them. Also under Raycom ownership, the former surrounding home shopping and paid programs were drastically reduced and replaced with regular syndicated programming, and its operations were merged into WSTM's facilities.
> 
> WSTQ-LP - Wikipedia


Considering I lived through that, I know the origin of it, it's just that the '6' has long since lost its meaning.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> Sure they do--it's some streaming device remotes that may not have numbers (as well as some foolish television remotes trying to look "sleek" and "modern"), in that Apple-dangerous way of sometimes placing form over substance. And I dare say that it's faster for me to punch in "5-1" (or even just "5")* on my television remote than to pull up a guide, scan through it potentially pages on end, and then finally select a call-letter listing. Albeit I currently am in a fairly solid, and sensical, OTA ecosphere (including where a channel calling itself channel 5 actually is on, surprise, channel 5).
> 
> *Regardless of whether this is the "real" channel number or the "fake" number, as you mention.


Yes, most streaming device remotes don't have numbers. Like the ones used with Fire TV, which is what you watch the Recast with. Which is probably why the Recast doesn't show the channel numbers.

You can talk to the remote and it'll interpret the channel numbers. Plus, you can talk to the remote and just tell it what TV show you want to watch. You can also tell it the network, or the call letters, etc. There are many ways to navigate to the channel besides using numbers which usually don't correlate to anything anymore.

Conversely, Pluto TV does have channel numbers but there's no way to enter them on my Roku remote. Ironically, my Tivo remote has numbers but no Pluto TV app.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

Adam C. said:


> Right, my point was why even bother with the 2-tuner model, particularly when it's only $50 more to get 4 tuners.


Because this isn't a Tivo. It's a low end DVR that will be used to record only a handful of channels. In my house, it would record ABC daily, the CW twice a week, and PBS for just one hour per week. That's it. And the CW can be streamed, so the DVR technically doesn't even need to do that.

If it's just you in the house, or you can stream these shows anyway, or you have a life outside of TV, then you can save $50 and use it to go out to eat.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

dlfl said:


> Why would they want to get out of the DVR business? (Although I'm not sure why they wanted to be in it, either.)


Amazon isn't in the DVR business, they're in the "keep you in the Fire TV ecosystem" business. More chances to sell you Amazon content, more chances to get you to subscribe to Amazon Channels. More reasons not to change over to competing set top boxes or devices.

Fire TV has been around for five years. Ever notice that Amazon was *bundling* antennas with FireTVs (before the Recast ever was on the drawing board) I could never figure out why. After all, no one's pairing antennas with Rokus or Apple TVs.



pfiagra said:


> Can anyone who owns both a TiVo (Roamio or Bolt) and Recast, and has connected each to the same OTA antenna provide a comparison as to how the OTA signal PQ of the Recast compares to their TiVo?


One antenna/splitter feeds my Roamio, the Recast and the Silicon Dust HD Home Run. No difference in reception capability across all channels . But the Recast only streams 720 to the FireTV endpoints, so you can't really compare PQ when one is compressed and the other isn't. (the Recast does a better job at transcoding than the HDHR.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

Adam C. said:


> Right, my point was why even bother with the 2-tuner model, particularly when it's only $50 more to get 4 tuners.


Because it's a shorter ride from $129.99 to $99.99.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> But then the Fire TV remotes don't have any numbers, right?





tapokata said:


> I have an Insignia FireTV edition in my bat-cave


@tapokata, you may be interested in this:
Numbers on my Fire TV Edition TV (has Fire built-in) are fully supported. So I loaded up my universal with all the possible commands, including numbers, dash/dot, discrete on/off, discrete input selection (HDMI1, HDMI2, etc.), and just about everything worked, including direct channel number entry just like on a Tivo.

Harmony has most of the above functions for Fire TV Edition TVs like Toshiba and Insignia, but is missing a few. But I have ALL possible functions on my universal, even the ones missing from Harmony's database (namely Dash). Here's what I did, if anyone is interested:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=101732


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

wizwor said:


> Because it's a shorter ride from $129.99 to $99.99.


Why stop their, why not go to 99.99 to 39.99 with one tuner. After all, there will also be that group that will buy cheaper. But at a certain point you get what you pay for and it may not be what you thought you paid for.

Now, that being said, TiVo has played the low ball price game and lost, even before Amazon came knocking on their door with the same game, racing to the bottom of the price point. TiVo can beat Amazon, but not by playing a game they never won themselves and most definitely cannot win against Amazon.

Now, that being said, To survive, TiVo must pivot back to a game of quality features and flexibility. However, TiVo's upcoming product, Series 7 TiVo Edge appears lacking in specs needed for such a pivot to a better TiVo. If weaknesses with the new TiVo box remain, it will have TiVo moving in circles as sitting ducks in a shooting spree for Amazon and others to blow them out of business once and for all. They must move higher than their competitors, not lower. If that means paying *a little more* and leaving the cheapskates behind, so be it.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> But then the Fire TV remotes don't have any numbers, right?


Right. Neither does my Roku or Sharp/Roku TV. I don't miss them.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

wizwor said:


> The two tuner DVR is for people who want to stream live OTA. Add two more tuners for people who want to record while watching live OTA. Historically, consumers have not been drawn to single or dual tuner DVRs. The addition of a second model accommodates the people who want to record while watching something else.


I can stream live TV using the OTA tuner built into my TV.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

shwru980r said:


> I can stream live TV using the OTA tuner built into my TV.


You are my hero, LOL. Your avatar matches your post. Read this. Amazon is on to something.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

Joe3 said:


> Why stop their[sic], why not go to 99.99 to 39.99 with one tuner. After all, there will also be that group that will buy cheaper. But at a certain point you get what you pay for and it may not be what you thought you paid for.


JoeKustra is this you? The Recast is a fine DVR at an attractive price. Amazon's customer #1 for the Recast is someone who wants to watch broadcast television via a Fire TV device. They have a four tuner model for customer #2.


Joe3 said:


> Now, that being said, TiVo has played the low ball price game and lost, even before Amazon came knocking on their door with the same game, racing to the bottom of the price point. TiVo can beat Amazon, but not by playing a game they never won themselves and most definitely cannot win against Amazon.


For most of my adult life, an 'all in' TiVo ran about $800. I bought five TiVo Roamio OTAs at prices below $300. I bought a couple of Minis too. Does not sound like a loss to me.


Joe3 said:


> Now, that being said, To survive, TiVo must pivot back to a game of quality features and flexibility. However, TiVo's upcoming product, Series 7 TiVo Edge appears lacking in specs needed for such a pivot to a better TiVo. If weaknesses with the new TiVo box remain, it will have TiVo moving in circles as sitting ducks in a shooting spree for Amazon and others to blow them out of business once and for all. They must move higher than their competitors, not lower. If that means paying *a little more* and leaving the cheapskates behind, so be it.


You obviously should be running this company. TiVo is walking off the stage. There is nothing that can be done to reverse this.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

wizwor said:


> JoeKustra is this you? The Recast is a fine DVR at an attractive price. Amazon's customer #1 for the Recast is someone who wants to watch broadcast television via a Fire TV device. They have a four tuner model for customer #2.


If you are using a mobile device or have blocked signatures, you can't see where it says "cable only". No, not me, but I do monitor quite a few OTA threads on AVS Forum. Also, I have a Fire TV but seldom use. I did have OTA when I lived in Philly during the '70s.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

JoeKustra said:


> If you are using a mobile device or have blocked signatures, you can't see where it says "cable only". No, not me, but I do monitor quite a few OTA threads on AVS Forum. Also, I have a Fire TV but seldom use. I did have OTA when I lived in Philly during the '70s.


I was just kidding. You are my favorite TiVo fanboy! Have a happy Fourth.


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## David B Gregory (Feb 26, 2018)

I received my recast today. Simple to set up picture looks great on both app and fire tv. very nice integration of guide. Big thi g i wl be looking forward to testing is out of home and a ability to cast when watching football


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

David B Gregory said:


> I received my recast today. Simple to set up picture looks great on both app and fire tv. very nice integration of guide. Big thi g i wl be looking forward to testing is out of home and a ability to cast when watching football


What other sources are integrated into your guide? I'm particularly interested in how well PSVue integrates, and how clunky (or convenient) it is to manage PSVue DVR functions, both setting up and playing back recordings.

When I cut the cord (and sooner or later Spectrum pricing and TA problems will lead to this), my plan is to sell my lifetime Roamio and purchase a Recall and PSVue. My Roamio basic can be converted to OTA but using the Recall and PSVue allows an integrated UI for both cable and OTA channels, and eliminates the bother of having to switch TV inputs. I will test this configuration before selling the Roamio. If the Recall doesn't satisfy, I will return it and keep the Roamio for OTA

Edit: OK, "Recast", not "Recall"!


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## MassMan (Mar 19, 2019)

dlfl said:


> What other sources are integrated into your guide? I'm particularly interested in how well PSVue integrates, and how clunky (or convenient) it is to manage PSVue DVR functions, both setting up and playing back recordings.
> 
> When I cut the cord (and sooner or later Spectrum pricing and TA problems will lead to this), my plan is to sell my lifetime Roamio and purchase a Recall and PSVue. My Roamio basic can be converted to OTA but using the Recall and PSVue allows an integrated UI for both cable and OTA channels, and eliminates the bother of having to switch TV inputs. I will test this configuration before selling the Roamio. If the Recall doesn't satisfy, I will return it and keep the Roamio for OTA


Guide integration is important for a good WAF. IMO it's a killer app. Locals (via OTA to avoid data usages, along with apps (or PSVue or others) is extremely desirable to me)


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

MassMan said:


> Guide integration is important for a good WAF. IMO it's a killer app. Locals (via OTA to avoid data usages, along with apps (or PSVue or others) is extremely desirable to me)


Guide integration is desirable for MAF (_my_ acceptance factor) also.  Although I think it's a feature rather than an app. Avoiding data usage isn't the only advantage of OTA tuning. AFAIK there is no streaming sevice that provides all the local stations available via antenna.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

dlfl said:


> Guide integration is desirable for MAF (_my_ acceptance factor) also.  Although I think it's a feature rather than an app. Avoiding data usage isn't the only advantage of OTA tuning. AFAIK there is no streaming sevice that provides all the local stations available via antenna.


Locast (if you are in a service area, and if it's considered a streaming service--at least, it is available _through_ streaming services)? Albeit, it_ only_ provides local stations.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

I got mine setup last night. I couldn't resist the price. I set some timers. It is no Hopper3, but it might be good enough for just locals + streaming. Also, if they do actually add commercial skipping as it rumored, it might become much more attractive.

Initial Impressions:

-PQ is better than I expected. Not perfect, but not bad at all, especially compared to cable and satellite.
-They don't tell you that you may have to wait a while before the DVR tab shows up on your FireTVs devices. It was upwards of an hour on one of mine.
-Still more clicks than I would like to get to the guide, recordings, and live channels. I realize Alexa is supposed to shortcut that stuff, but I dislike voice interfaces.
-Tuners seem decent. I don't have the perfect antenna setup right now, but it still was able to tune what I consider to be marginal stations reliably.
-Works fine on my current wi-fi setup. I bought a MoCA adapter for the room I put it in to get the best OTA reception, but it wouldn't play nicely with my existing MoCA setup for some reason, so I reverted to wi-fi and it works just fine. I still plan to make it work over MoCA long-term, but it wasn't required.
-It isn't as good as a Tivo, but it costs a heck of a lot less, and I can have one device (Firestick) to have access to locals and streaming apps at each TV location. That was the promise of the Roamio and Mini, but it was never achieved. The Recast gets a lot closer, albeit with some loss of functionality compared to the Tivo.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

ncted said:


> -They don't tell you that you may have to wait a while before the DVR tab shows up on your FireTVs devices. It was upwards of an hour on one of mine.


Heh, still better than TiVo Support's "24-48 hours" instruction regarding Mini activation (which actually takes all of a few minutes if they would just instruct the user to force a few service connections on the host DVR).



ncted said:


> -Works fine on my current wi-fi setup. I bought a MoCA adapter for the room I put it in to get the best OTA reception, but it wouldn't play nicely with my existing MoCA setup for some reason, so I reverted to wi-fi and it works just fine. I still plan to make it work over MoCA long-term, but it wasn't required.


Pop open a thread if any assistance is needed.



ncted said:


> -It isn't as good as a Tivo, but it costs a heck of a lot less, and I can have one device (Firestick) to have access to locals and streaming apps at each TV location.


How's the picture quality in the VUDU app?


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

krkaufman said:


> Heh, still better than TiVo Support's "24-48 hours" instruction regarding Mini activation (which actually takes all of a few minutes if they would just instruct the user to force a few service connections on the host DVR).
> 
> Pop open a thread if any assistance is needed.
> 
> How's the picture quality in the VUDU app?


HA! I decided not to side load VUDU, although I could if necessary from what I understand. Typically, we rent movies from Amazon these days, which means no UHD, but neither of us has 20/10 vision, so we can't really see a difference that would impact the viewing experience.

The MoCA problem is weird. I am using Actiontec bonded 2.0 adapters, and I am using their recommended splitter. However, only one of the remote adapters (after the split) will work at a time. They will actually alternate which one is up over time. One will come up, and the other one will go down, and vice versa, every few minutes. If I keep the Recast, which looks likely at the moment, I am going to need a better antenna setup. If I am going to do that, I am going to route the antenna connection to the living room, which has ethernet already.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

dlfl said:


> Guide integration is desirable for MAF (_my_ acceptance factor) also.  Although I think it's a feature rather than an app. Avoiding data usage isn't the only advantage of OTA tuning. AFAIK there is no streaming sevice that provides all the local stations available via antenna.


Unless you are a wife, no one cares about your AF. Guys overcome adversity -- that's part of the fun!


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

dlfl said:


> What other sources are integrated into your guide? I'm particularly interested in how well PSVue integrates, and how clunky (or convenient) it is to manage PSVue DVR functions, both setting up and playing back recordings.
> 
> When I cut the cord (and sooner or later Spectrum pricing and TA problems will lead to this), my plan is to sell my lifetime Roamio and purchase a Recall and PSVue. My Roamio basic can be converted to OTA but using the Recall and PSVue allows an integrated UI for both cable and OTA channels, and eliminates the bother of having to switch TV inputs. I will test this configuration before selling the Roamio. If the Recall doesn't satisfy, I will return it and keep the Roamio for OTA


I don't know what a "Recall" is. But I can tell you that Recast's guide integration is very basic. You only get the guide listings and live channels for 3rd party services, no DVR/playback functions. So it's really suitable only for watching live. You need to switch to the 3rd party app itself for full DVR functionality. Still quicker and easier than switching inputs.

The guide integration with Pluto, Philo, etc. is convenient. I don't mind switching apps for other recordings. TBH, I record very little these days. I get most everything on demand from the individual network apps using my DTVN credentials to log in. Yes, I have to endure commercials, but I just mute them and do other things. Not a big deal to me. If that's the price of cheap/free streaming, I'll tolerate it. Otherwise, I'd still be paying for cable and using Tivo. But for me, cable prices got way to high. In a few more years I can see myself getting by with OTA plus $20 Philo. I'll let my kids pay for Netflix and HBO. I've never been impressed with the content on Prime or other premiums besides HBO.

I had PSVue for a few years and loved it. But they dropped a ton of core channels and didn't drop the price, so I switched to something else. Another problem is PSVue only works in your house at your billing address. So you can't stream anything at all if you're on the road. My grandfathered DirecTV NOW has a far superior lineup, better price and works anywhere. Sadly, new customers have no good options. The current DirecTV NOW plans are absolutely terrible.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> How's the picture quality in the VUDU app?


Excellent! Just side-loaded it to try it out. How is it on Tivo?

Kodi looks pretty good too. How's that on Tivo?


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

wizwor said:


> Unless you are a wife, no one cares about your AF. Guys overcome adversity -- that's part of the fun!


LOL Oh sure. But when I can get what I want without needless adversity, that's for me. For example, my Tuning Adapter and Spectrum's poor support of it have provided way too much "fun".


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

mdavej said:


> I don't know what a "Recall" is. .........


"Recall" is when your memory doesn't fail to come up with the correct name.


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## al_wilson2 (Sep 14, 2016)

I've been running recast since the 3rd, as a test to see about replacing my TiVo. I really love the integration of Pluto with my OTA channels! I think the only thing I'll miss is the commercial skip of TiVo. Also, right now Amazon is offering a Fire Stick with voice (non 4k) for $40 with 2 free months of HBO. I also got a firestick 4k at Best Buy that comes with one free month of Sling. I now have 3 firesticks. Only need to pick up a couple more.

Is there an easy way to exit the guide and return to the current program, without exiting to the home screen?


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## al_wilson2 (Sep 14, 2016)

ncted said:


> Still more clicks than I would like to get to the guide, recordings, and live channels. I realize Alexa is supposed to shortcut that stuff, but I dislike voice interfaces.


Just tell Alexa "open guide"


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

al_wilson2 said:


> Just tell Alexa "open guide"


OK. I'll try that. I tried "channel guide," but that didn't work.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

al_wilson2 said:


> Just tell Alexa "open guide"





ncted said:


> OK. I'll try that. I tried "channel guide," but that didn't work.


I wish Alexa supported command aliasing, e.g., the user could specify in the Alexa app that "channel guide" would be translated to "open guide". (Note this is not the same as Alexa "routines".) This feature should also support multiple chained commands.

For WAF purposes I have two configurations:
1. TiVo --> TV HDMI-2 
2. Fire TV Cube --> Sound Bar --> TV HDMI-1

#1 is the wife-friendly configuration which allows cable TV viewing using only the TiVo peanut remote, not requiring the use of the cube or the sound bar.

I was able to set up the cube so that #2 is established with a single command (Turn on TV). However to get back to #1 from #2 takes a sequence of two commands (Turn off sound bar followed by switch to DVR). I would like to be able to use a single command for that sequence, e.g., "switch to TiVo".


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

al_wilson2 said:


> Is there an easy way to exit the guide and return to the current program, without exiting to the home screen?


I haven't found any way to do that either besides re-selecting your current program from the guide. Kind of annoying.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

ncted said:


> OK. I'll try that. I tried "channel guide," but that didn't work.


Here are the supported commands. I've found that you don't actually have to say "Alexa" first:
Amazon.com Help: Fire TV Recast FAQs

I've also been able to tune channel numbers by voice.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

mdavej said:


> Here are the supported commands. I've found that you don't actually have to say "Alexa" first:
> Amazon.com Help: Fire TV Recast FAQs
> 
> I've also been able to tune channel numbers by voice.


*See the channel guide* _Alexa, show me the channel guide._

That is what I tried. Alexa just doesn't like me I guess.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

ncted said:


> *See the channel guide* _Alexa, show me the channel guide._
> 
> That is what I tried. Alexa just doesn't like me I guess.


All I say is, "Show Guide".

Do any other voice commands work? If you're using your Fire stick remote, are you holding the mic button long enough to get the blue bar and chime before you speak? Are you using some other Alexa device that's always listening, like Echo?

What Fire TV device do you have exactly, i.e., 4k stick, older gen. stick, cube, Fire TV edition TV?


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

mdavej said:


> All I say is, "Show Guide".
> 
> Do any other voice commands work? If you're using your Fire stick remote, are you holding the mic button long enough to get the blue bar and chime before you speak? Are you using some other Alexa device that's always listening, like Echo?
> 
> What Fire TV device do you have exactly, i.e., 4k stick, older gen. stick, cube, Fire TV edition TV?


I have 3 Firestick 4Ks and 1 Alexa enabled HD Firestick. It worked when I tried it tonight. Not crazy about voice interfaces, but it worked, so :thumbsup:


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## pj1983 (Dec 26, 2016)

For those looking for another option/toy to play with, Woot has the "AirTV" OTA device on sale today (only) for $50. No recording unless an external HD is added, and there's some sort of integration with Sling:

AirTV, Dual-tuner Local Channel Streamer - $49.99 - Free shipping for Prime members

No endorsement made or implied as I have no experience with Sling devices.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

pj1983 said:


> For those looking for another option/toy to play with, Woot has the "AirTV" OTA device on sale today (only) for $50. No recording unless an external HD is added, and there's some sort of integration with Sling:
> 
> AirTV, Dual-tuner Local Channel Streamer - $49.99 - Free shipping for Prime members
> 
> No endorsement made or implied as I have no experience with Sling devices.


I looked at this previously. It has a nice integration with Sling. The big downside in my opinion is the lack of a live buffer. There is a 4 tuner version coming out later this year.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

ncted said:


> I looked at this previously. It has a nice integration with Sling. The big downside in my opinion is the *lack of a live buffer*. There is a 4 tuner version coming out later this year.


Ulp.


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## Laughs Brightly (Jan 23, 2016)

I love Tivo, but at this price I'm in for a 4-Tuner Recast. Also grabbed the 1080 Firestick with 2 months of HBO. I've got 4 3TB Lifetime Roamios, a couple of Bolts, a Mini VOX, and a Stream I can eBay if this works good enough on my 720p TVs. I love that, unlike Tivo, I can plug an external drive into the Recast and not have it tied into the internal storage. Also, they keep jacking with the Tivo App and out of house streaming (from a Bolt or the stream) seems to suck these days. Really hoping my out of home streaming experience will be better.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Laughs Brightly said:


> I love Tivo, but at this price I'm in for a 4-Tuner Recast. Also grabbed the 1080 Firestick with 2 months of HBO. I've got 4 3TB Lifetime Roamios, a couple of Bolts, a Mini VOX, and a Stream I can eBay if this works good enough on my 720p TVs. I love that, unlike Tivo, I can plug an external drive into the Recast and not have it tied into the internal storage. Also, they keep jacking with the Tivo App and out of house streaming (from a Bolt or the stream) seems to suck these days. Really hoping my out of home streaming experience will be better.


Amazon only allows one recast per account. You will have significantly less recording capacity.


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## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

It's tempting, but I'm still not biting. I really want the ability to blend OTA w/ Philo in a single UI, which this offers, but I'm holding off because:

I have a perfectly good Roamio OTA & a bunch of perfectly good mini's that still work fine, I just have to change inputs and juggle two remotes
I've got a bunch of perfectly good Rokus that still work fine & would have to replace those with Fire TV sticks
The TiVo Roku app that will show up Real Soon Now (tm) might get me a "good enough" one-remote situation
I'm apprehensive about buying any new ATSC 1.0 hardware when non-absurdly-priced ATSC 3.0 hardware is supposed to start showing up next year
A hard limit of two simultaneous streams, even on the 4-tuner model
If they come out w/ a 4-tuner, 4-stream, ATSC 3 Recast in the next couple of years though . . . all bets are off


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

shwru980r said:


> Amazon only allows one recast per account. You will have significantly less recording capacity.


Good point. I have a couple of Recasts on separate Amazon accounts, but they are in different households. Each Fire stick can only be associated with one account/Recast. So a single household with more that one Recast isn't practical unless you don't mind having distinct groups, i.e., kids on one system, adults on another.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

OrangeCrush said:


> It's tempting, but I'm still not biting. I really want the ability to blend OTA w/ Philo in a single UI, which this offers, but I'm holding off because:
> 
> I have a perfectly good Roamio OTA & a bunch of perfectly good mini's that still work fine, I just have to change inputs and juggle two remotes
> I've got a bunch of perfectly good Rokus that still work fine & would have to replace those with Fire TV sticks
> ...


If I still had a functional Roamio OTA and Minis, I am not sure I'd have bothered trying the Recast.


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## Laughs Brightly (Jan 23, 2016)

shwru980r said:


> Amazon only allows one recast per account. You will have significantly less recording capacity.


It's a gamble, I agree. 
We don't watch as much TV anymore so I've found that most of my 15TB of recording goes unwatched. My wife's 2 TB Bolt is mostly what we use with a bit of a 3 TB Roamio and some HULU and Netflix. Most of the time I am away from home the Tivo won't stream reliably so I use Hulu anyway. (I have 100/5 Internet and commercial gear, so I don't think it's me). 
I'll toss a 2 TB WD Red on the Recast and hope 3 TB does it. Like I said, I never did it with Tivo because as soon as an external drive bit it, there goes all my internal recordings as well.

I did hedge my bets, though. Working in IT, I have stacks of hard drives so I picked up the $50 AirTV from Woot @pj1983 mentioned above. Worst case that can be my personal box and it will still work with the Fire Sticks.

If I hate the things, I send them back and you guys don't get to fight over my eBay auctions.


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

OrangeCrush said:


> It's tempting, but I'm still not biting. I really want the ability to blend OTA w/ Philo in a single UI, which this offers,.............


Have you seen this?

NEW: TV Everywhere Support (BETA)

TiVo Edge (Series 7 DVR for Cable)

If you add a four tuner HDHomerun Quattro you should be able to get your 4 streaming OTA tuners too.


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## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

BillyClyde said:


> Have you seen this?
> 
> NEW: TV Everywhere Support (BETA)
> 
> ...


Oh, I hadn't realized they made a Channels app for Android TV & Fire. I hadn't looked at it since it was iOS-only. I'll have to play with it to see how well it works.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Laughs Brightly said:


> I'll toss a 2 TB WD Red on the Recast and hope 3 TB does it. Like I said, I never did it with Tivo because as soon as an external drive bit it, there goes all my internal recordings as well.


I'm not sure if a determination has been made as to what happens to the recordings on the external drive, if the internal drive fails on a recast.


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

Fire TV prices for Amazon Prime Day per USA Today:

Fire TV Stick with Alexa Voice Remote-$14.99 (Save $25)

Fire TV Stick 4K with Alexa Voice Remote-$24.99 (Save $25)

Fire TV Cube-$69.99 (Save $50)


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

pfiagra said:


> Fire TV Stick with Alexa Voice Remote-$14.99 (Save $25)
> 
> Fire TV Stick 4K with Alexa Voice Remote-$24.99 (Save $25)


Those prices are available now for Prime members if ordered through an Alexa device or app.

https://www.amazon.com/b/ref=s9_acs...b9-44c0-bfa0-d3b2d6264a95&pf_rd_i=13887280011


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

If anyone bought a Recast, I am looking for a volunteer to attempt to do initial configuration with the Bluestacks Emulator before using an android or IOS device.

BlueStacks - Not Another Android Emulator - 6x Faster Than Any Phone


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## BNBTivo (Sep 7, 2015)

OrangeCrush said:


> It's tempting, but I'm still not biting. I really want the ability to blend OTA w/ Philo in a single UI, which this offers, but I'm holding off because:
> 
> I have a perfectly good Roamio OTA & a bunch of perfectly good mini's that still work fine, I just have to change inputs and juggle two remotes
> I've got a bunch of perfectly good Rokus that still work fine & would have to replace those with Fire TV sticks
> ...


This is what I struggled with when deciding our future for TV. We ended up selling off all of our Tivo units (over $2,000!!!!!!). YouTube TV is just $30/mo more than Philo but gives you WAY more, including locals. So no need for hard drive DVR's, no extra boxes, no limits on tuners or any of that. And that $30 all of a sudden isn't very much when you figure how much you are saving on hardware. Now that we switched, it's hard for me to even consider physical hardware recorders anymore, they seem so archaic. Plus, it travels. No trying to stream from the house or any of that nonsense (kind of like Philo). We use our YTTV at 2 houses, no problem, plus I'll watch it on my phone pretty often, too.

I do see some value if Recast comes out with a true 4 tuner, but at what point is it just not worth it? The savings are so minimal if you are still paying for other streaming TV services, may as well just stream TV and skip the OTA all together, no?


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

BNBTivo said:


> I do see some value if Recast comes out with a true 4 tuner, but at what point is it just not worth it? The savings are so minimal if you are still paying for other streaming TV services, may as well just stream TV and skip the OTA all together, no?


I only watch OTA, so something like YouTube TV is not worth it to me. I'm not sure how you are getting it at $30/month. I see it listed at $50/month. Also, I watch a lot of subchannels like Antenna TV, Laff, Me TV, etc. and most of the streaming services do not carry these channels. So it really depends on what you watch to be able to determine if it's worth it or not.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Adam C. said:


> I only watch OTA, so something like YouTube TV is not worth it to me. I'm not sure how you are getting it at $30/month.


He said "$30 more than Philo". Since Philo is $20, then YTTV is $50.

I agree if your streaming service gets locals and you don't care about sub-channels (Laff, MeTV, etc.), then no need to bother with OTA. But I'm like you. I like the sub-channels, and my streaming service doesn't carry all my locals, i.e., PBS.


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## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

BNBTivo said:


> The savings are so minimal if you are still paying for other streaming TV services, may as well just stream TV and skip the OTA all together, no?


Depends on your must-have channels. Youtube doesn't have Hallmark, which would be hazardous to my marriage . OTA + Philo gets me everything I want for $16/mo (grandfathered in).

My parents on the other hand don't care about Hallmark but have poor OTA reception, so YouTube is the better fit for them.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

BNBTivo said:


> This is what I struggled with when deciding our future for TV. We ended up selling off all of our Tivo units (over $2,000!!!!!!). YouTube TV is just $30/mo more than Philo but gives you WAY more, including locals. So no need for hard drive DVR's, no extra boxes, no limits on tuners or any of that. *And that $30 all of a sudden isn't very much when you figure how much you are saving on hardware. *Now that we switched, it's hard for me to even consider physical hardware recorders anymore, they seem so archaic. Plus, it travels. No trying to stream from the house or any of that nonsense (kind of like Philo). We use our YTTV at 2 houses, no problem, plus I'll watch it on my phone pretty often, too.
> 
> I do see some value if Recast comes out with a true 4 tuner, but at what point is it just not worth it? The savings are so minimal if you are still paying for other streaming TV services, may as well just stream TV and skip the OTA all together, no?


Yes, $360_ per year_ *is* very much, for me--it's the equivalent of purchasing a TiVo OTA box every year. And I would have a difficult time in not having the TiVo advantages--QuickMode alone gives me back 1-2 hours of my life every day.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

BNBTivo said:


> This is what I struggled with when deciding our future for TV. We ended up selling off all of our Tivo units (over $2,000!!!!!!). YouTube TV is just $30/mo more than Philo but gives you WAY more, including locals. So no need for hard drive DVR's, no extra boxes, no limits on tuners or any of that. And that $30 all of a sudden isn't very much when you figure how much you are saving on hardware. Now that we switched, it's hard for me to even consider physical hardware recorders anymore, they seem so archaic. Plus, it travels. No trying to stream from the house or any of that nonsense (kind of like Philo). We use our YTTV at 2 houses, no problem, plus I'll watch it on my phone pretty often, too.
> 
> I do see some value if Recast comes out with a true 4 tuner, but at what point is it just not worth it? The savings are so minimal if you are still paying for other streaming TV services, may as well just stream TV and skip the OTA all together, no?


Reasons physical OTA DVRs are still worth considering in my mind:

99% of the time, my internet is up and operational. The DVR means I don't have to worry about getting local news/weather the other 1% of the time, usually when something has gone poorly, like a hurricane or an ice storm, when having access to those channels is more important than other times. If I had decent cell coverage at my house, I would probably care less about this, but having more than one method of content delivery is still important to us as a result.
The OTT streaming services are going to have retransmission disputes, just like Dish, DirecTV, Comcast, Spectrum, and everyone else. DirecTV Now currently doesn't carry a bunch of Nexstar channels for instance. Getting those channels OTA eliminates the risk of losing them due to a lengthy contract dispute.
As of me writing this, my wife's and my viewing habits have changed to the point that the on-demand streaming to traditional linear programming ratio is now probably around 70%:30%. It no longer makes sense to spend the money for a big linear channel package when we mostly watch Netflix/Prime/Hulu/HBO/Starz/etc. The OTA DVR gives us the locals we still want for a minimal up-front cost, freeing up money on a monthly basis for the stuff we primarily watch.
My wife and I will not exceed the 2 stream limit of the Recast. If we needed more, we'd probably try out the Tablo.

That said, they aren't for everyone, and, if you can get by happily with YTTV, Hulu Live, PS Vue, etc., more power to you.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

Lots of *YMMV* in any discussion of television that includes cost and locals -- never mind antennas.

The *cost *of an OTT service (or a TiVo or a Recast) *must* include the cost of high speed internet -- premium providers include or do not require (satellite) high speed internet. A friend is on a Comcast triple play promo that costs $90/month for two years. Can't be beat with an OTT service except, maybe, Philo with no local channels or Pluto (if that means television to you). In the next town over, my sister pays nearly $300/month for Comcast. Different hardware and packages, but that is significant YMMV. The argument that 'everyone needs high speed internet' is less valid today than it was five years ago and will be less valid in five years than it is today. Wednesday, I was talking to a young engineer about OTT. He told me his family relies on their phone plan, ipads, and iphones for internet access and social media -- the cell company is their ISP.

As always, if you want free tv, you need to install an antenna and 1) find a PSIP DVR, 2) get a TCL Roku TV, or 3) watch Live TV.

I'm not being cavalier. The channel master 'DVR' works as expected, provides a guide, and is inexpensive. The TCL Roku TV has a guide and does trick play if you plug in a thumb drive. Most cord cutters I know just watch television -- no DVR at all.

I have yet to find an OTT service that provided more than a sampling of local channels. Premium providers are lacking in this respect as well. YouTube TV carries about 1/5 of my OTA channels. This TV, MeTV, PBS (plus Create, Explore, Kids, and World), LAFF, Escape, Heroes & Icons, Charge, BUZZR, ION, IONLife, Bounce, getTV, and Grit are part of my Recast experience which is missing from YouTube TV, for instance.

There is a lot of discussion of the Recast on these forums. Much more happiness here and on the AVS forums than the Amazon Digital and Devices forums. Kind of surprises me because I always thought OTA was a niche at TiVo. Seems like a small group of us who are wandering the desert looking for an OTA DVR which is not Tablo TV DVR or HDHomerun. A group of YOU, maybe, because I have DVR+s, TiVos, Tablo TV, HDHR, and Recast and love them all (I even miss Simple TV). So count me in as a 'physical dvr' fan. We re-discovered OTA during an eight day power outage. Not sure a non-PSIP DVR would have gotten the job done. I have installed antennas where internet is not an option, too. I guess I am a PSIP fan too.

After using the Recast, I sent Joe Bingochea at CM an email suggesting they re-release the DVR+ with Pluto.TV pre-installed. PSIP plus OTT with no monthly charge (except for internet if you want to use Pluto.TV) -- I would be all over that.

I'm rambling. Need some sleep.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

wizwor said:


> Four or two tuner? It makes me laugh to see people who paid TiVo money for a DVR get all value conscious over a $130 purchase -- closer to $120 if you use an Amazon store card. Congratulations. I am sure you will be very happy.


TiVo users can sometimes be just like Apple users.... Drinking the Apple Kool-Aid. And many will go down with the ship. OK.. before you start tossing rocks, I do like my TiVo, but understand that TiVo's time is coming to an end and I'm testing other products now. My Recast is my primary remote viewing device as my Bolt works when it wants too and TiVo is just fine with that.


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## BNBTivo (Sep 7, 2015)

ncted said:


> Reasons physical OTA DVRs are still worth considering in my mind:
> 
> 99% of the time, my internet is up and operational. The DVR means I don't have to worry about getting local news/weather the other 1% of the time, usually when something has gone poorly, like a hurricane or an ice storm, when having access to those channels is more important than other times. If I had decent cell coverage at my house, I would probably care less about this, but having more than one method of content delivery is still important to us as a result.
> The OTT streaming services are going to have retransmission disputes, just like Dish, DirecTV, Comcast, Spectrum, and everyone else. DirecTV Now currently doesn't carry a bunch of Nexstar channels for instance. Getting those channels OTA eliminates the risk of losing them due to a lengthy contract dispute.
> ...


The major driver for me is sports programming. We get all of our local teams via YTTV and unlimited DVR to record them. As I mentioned in my comment as well, when you start tacking on other costs, it just doesn't come out to be that much. For example, we get plenty of onDemand programming with YTTV, tons of it, so we just don't have a need for Hulu. Hulu + Philo is $33/mo or so. Add in $15/mo Tivo service and we are at the same price at YTTV on a monthly basis. That's the point I was trying to make. Yes, if you buy a used OTA with lifetime and don't use any streaming, of course you will save money. I was just pointing out that when people start adding in other services, Tivo monthly services, etc. etc. then it becomes a different discussion as the pricing ends up very similar.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

wizwor said:


> The *cost *of an OTT service (or a TiVo or a Recast) *must* include the cost of high speed internet --


The only way I would agree with this is if someone signed up for high speed internet for the sole purpose of watching TV. For the vast majority of households, high speed internet is as basic as electricity and running water. I can't name one person that does not have broadband internet in their home, and would have it anyway regardless of streaming TV services or not.


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## BNBTivo (Sep 7, 2015)

wizwor said:


> I have yet to find an OTT service that provided more than a sampling of local channels. Premium providers are lacking in this respect as well. YouTube TV carries about 1/5 of my OTA channels. This TV, MeTV, PBS (plus Create, Explore, Kids, and World), LAFF, Escape, Heroes & Icons, Charge, BUZZR, ION, IONLife, Bounce, getTV, and Grit are part of my Recast experience which is missing from YouTube TV, for instance.


I would never watch any of those channels other than PBS. And while PBS isn't included on YTTV, it's a free app as well as PBS Kids. The apps have pretty much the entire PBS/PBS Kids library available onDemand, commercial free.

Notably, with YTTV, you also get the Disney app access which has an obnoxious amount of commercial free Disney programming onDemand. Basically everything Disney has. So having that catalog available should also be included in the value of YTTV (or other streaming services) if you have kids.

And you pointed out the obvious. That there is no one size fits all solution!


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## BNBTivo (Sep 7, 2015)

Adam C. said:


> The only way I would agree with this is if someone signed up for high speed internet for the sole purpose of watching TV. For the vast majority of households, high speed internet is as basic as electricity and running water. I can't name one person that does not have broadband internet in their home, and would have it anyway regardless of streaming TV services or not.


To be fair, you should then include the cost of non-capped high speed internet in the calculations if comparing to streaming services. This could be substantially more expensive at the moment (though that will go away eventually). Luckily for us we have ATT Fiber which has reasonably priced uncapped internet. And where ATT Fiber is, you can also get Toast.net which has even cheaper (slower) plans that are uncapped. But for people stuck with Comcast who may do a ton of streaming with several people in their house, it could add as much as $50/mo to their bill for uncapped.

Funny enough, for most of these people, even with an extra $50/mo it would be cheaper than what they are paying for Comcast tv with all their equipment, etc. But this is a Tivo forum, we know better than to do that!


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

BNBTivo said:


> To be fair, you should then include the cost of non-capped high speed internet in the calculations if comparing to streaming services. This could be substantially more expensive at the moment (though that will go away eventually). Luckily for us we have ATT Fiber which has reasonably priced uncapped internet. And where ATT Fiber is, you can also get Toast.net which has even cheaper (slower) plans that are uncapped. But for people stuck with Comcast who may do a ton of streaming with several people in their house, it could add as much as $50/mo to their bill for uncapped.
> 
> Funny enough, for most of these people, even with an extra $50/mo it would be cheaper than what they are paying for Comcast tv with all their equipment, etc. But this is a Tivo forum, we know better than to do that!


Spectrum's minimum internet plan in my region is 100/10 and has no caps. Cost is $66/mo. There is no competing service available. There are ADSL options with much lower speeds and (I assume) lower cost. For those who can settle for one simultaneous non-4k video stream these plans _might_ suffice. Bottom line: you don't save much by not using streaming services.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

Adam C. said:


> The only way I would agree with this is if someone signed up for high speed internet for the sole purpose of watching TV. For the vast majority of households, high speed internet is as basic as electricity and running water. I can't name one person that does not have broadband internet in their home, and would have it anyway regardless of streaming TV services or not.


Do you deduct the cost of high speed internet when you cost out Comcast? Apples to apples, please.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

BNBTivo said:


> I would never watch any of those channels other than PBS. And while PBS isn't included on YTTV, it's a free app as well as PBS Kids. The apps have pretty much the entire PBS/PBS Kids library available onDemand, commercial free.
> 
> Notably, with YTTV, you also get the Disney app access which has an obnoxious amount of commercial free Disney programming onDemand. Basically everything Disney has. So having that catalog available should also be included in the value of YTTV (or other streaming services) if you have kids.
> 
> *And you pointed out the obvious. That there is no one size fits all solution!*


For me, at least, Disney adds about as much value as the music channels and a little less than the shopping channels (I actually enjoy QVC from time to time).


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

wizwor said:


> Do you deduct the cost of high speed internet when you cost out Comcast? Apples to apples, please.


It is apples to apples. If I'm strictly comparing the cost of a streaming service vs. the cost of Comcast TV then I would not consider the cost of internet in either case, because in both situations I would have internet service anyway. I know Comcast and most other cable services offer bundling discounts, but there are so many variations of those discounts it is virtually impossible to evaluate any type of bundling savings.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

FWIW: I ended up returning the Recast. While the integration with the Firestick was pretty good, it wasn't up to my wife's standards. Looks like we'll be sticking with Dish for the foreseeable future. You still get what you pay for at the end of the day. The UI responsiveness and simple navigation of the Hopper (and Tivo for that matter) is just not there with these streaming OTA DVRs. Additionally, the out-of-home viewing experience of the Dish Anywhere/Hopper is superior to the Recast. Oh well, it was fun to get it working and playing with it. I still say it is a very good first effort by Amazon. I'll be curious to see if they stick with the platform and continue to develop it into something better than it is now.


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

ncted said:


> FWIW: I ended up returning the Recast. While the integration with the Firestick was pretty good, it wasn't up to my wife's standards. Looks like we'll be sticking with Dish for the foreseeable future. You still get what you pay for at the end of the day. The UI responsiveness and simple navigation of the Hopper (and Tivo for that matter) is just not there with these streaming OTA DVRs. Additionally, the out-of-home viewing experience of the Dish Anywhere/Hopper is superior to the Recast. Oh well, it was fun to get it working and playing with it. I still say it is a very good first effort by Amazon. I'll be curious to see if they stick with the platform and continue to develop it into something better than it is now.


I'm telling you, you should really try the Channels Beta with TV Everywhere DVR support and mate it with an HDHOMERUN for locals all integrated together. I also had Recast for a bit and this had the WAF and is SO much better overall!!!


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

tommiet said:


> TiVo users can sometimes be just like Apple users.... Drinking the Apple Kool-Aid. And many will go down with the ship. OK.. before you start tossing rocks, I do like my TiVo, *but understand that TiVo's time is coming to an end *and I'm testing other products now. My Recast is my primary remote viewing device as my Bolt works when it wants too and TiVo is just fine with that.


I understand what you're saying, but this probably has been said since 1999.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

Mikeguy said:


> I understand what you're saying, but this probably has been said since 1999.


TRUE.....But... in 1999 TiVo's stock price was over $100.00. Just too many other options today and TiVo is just not keeping up.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

tommiet said:


> TRUE.....But... in 1999 TiVo's stock price was over $100.00. Just too many other options today and TiVo is just not keeping up.


I understand and don't disagree--plus, there's a different technology age coming, that TiVo hasn't had to deal with before.

And yet . . . .


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

BillyClyde said:


> I'm telling you, you should really try the Channels Beta with TV Everywhere DVR support and mate it with an HDHOMERUN for locals all integrated together. I also had Recast for a bit and this had the WAF and is SO much better overall!!!


I appreciate your enthusiasm for this, but it really doesn't seem like something that would work well for us for some reason. Maybe I am missing something?


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

I'm pretty impressed with the Recast. It's a pretty polished first effort. The picture quality has been generally good (the TiVo is still SLIGHTLY better on some source material), using alexa to search/record works pretty well, and there's been no buffering issues (my recast is hard wired to my router, but I use wifi to drive a FireStick 4K, although the wireless access point is less than a foot from the stick). I think if we ever upgrade the wife's primary viewing screen, we'll likely go with another FireTV Edition set. She likes the convenience of the TiVo, but hates that the apps typically lock up on her Bolt every other evening (50 Mbps internet service, ethernet connected through a bonded channel MoCA backbone running > 820 Mbps throughput between MoCA nodes). 

I'm less impressed with the FireTV 4K stick, as the "matching" frame rate option tends to get confused, and I've had a few recordings playback in fast forward mode (no audio), until I stopped and restarted them.


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

ncted said:


> I appreciate your enthusiasm for this, but it really doesn't seem like something that would work well for us for some reason. Maybe I am missing something?


I was very skeptical too before I tried it. You don't have to invest in an HDHomerun tuner to try it you know. I believe there's a free trial. You can download the Channels DVR app, download the Beta and set it up to test out the TVE part of it at least. The tuner would just add your locals which is already known to work very well as @Dave Zatz can attest to.

Have you read a lot or even anything about it? What questions do you have? Feel free to ask away!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

BillyClyde said:


> Have you read a lot or even anything about it? What questions do you have? Feel free to ask away!


Has someone started a thread on the subject?


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

ncted said:


> FWIW: I ended up returning the Recast. While the integration with the Firestick was pretty good, it wasn't up to my wife's standards. Looks like we'll be sticking with Dish for the foreseeable future. You still get what you pay for at the end of the day. The UI responsiveness and simple navigation of the Hopper (and Tivo for that matter) is just not there with these streaming OTA DVRs. Additionally, the out-of-home viewing experience of the Dish Anywhere/Hopper is superior to the Recast. Oh well, it was fun to get it working and playing with it. I still say it is a very good first effort by Amazon. I'll be curious to see if they stick with the platform and continue to develop it into something better than it is now.


I would appreciate more detail about the "UI responsiveness and navigation" deficiencies you mentioned for the Recast. When I tune a new channel on my Roamio with Tuning Adapter there is a five second delay. Can the Recast be worse than that? To be fair, there are sometimes irritating delays when using my Fire TV Cube (with a hardwired ethernet internet connection) to open and navigate apps (e.g., Netflix, Youtube).


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

dlfl said:


> I would appreciate more detail about the "UI responsiveness and navigation" deficiencies you mentioned for the Recast. When I tune a new channel on my Roamio with Tuning Adapter there is a five second delay. Can the Recast be worse than that? To be fair, there are sometimes irritating delays when using my Fire TV Cube (with a hardwired ethernet internet connection) to open and navigate apps (e.g., Netflix, Youtube).


Well, it was a bit inconsistent to begin with. On the Hopper3, tuning is not instantaneous, but it is pretty quick, much better than older Satellite receivers -- definitely much less than 5 seconds. The Roamio OTA I used to have was also very fast at tuning channels. Sometimes the Recast tuning would be very fast, and other times it would take several seconds to start displaying video from a newly-tuned station. At times I'd wonder if something was wrong with it since it took so long. The longest channel change I measured was about 7 seconds while it was too fast for me to measure at other times.

To tune a channel that doesn't show up in the recent items on the Firestick's Home tab would require me to change to the Live or DVR tab, and they either choose it from the recent items there or several more clicks to get the channel guide and scroll through that to find what I want. I realize the idea is to use Alexa, which I hate voice interfaces, but I tried it anyway. Alexa seems have trouble hearing/understanding me, which I don't really understand. For one, Siri doesn't seem to have much trouble when I driving (really the only time I routinely use a voice interface), even with road and wind noise. I don't have much of an accent. Most people think I am mid-western despite growing up in NY, SC, TN, VA, and NC. My voice is somewhat deep, but we're not talking Barry White depths here. Alexa should be able to hear me. I tried on three different Firesticks with minimal success. Anyway, I wasn't very successful with the voice interface, and the manual navigation involved a lot of clicks, especially compared to Tivo or Dish where it is a button click or two to get to regularly-used things like the Guide or list of recordings. This isn't meant to be a "I like the old way of doing things" rant. I really tried to make it work under the paradigm the Amazon created. I quickly got used to which things I have to do to accomplish the tasks I routinely performed, but, upon analysis, I found it inefficient compared to established methods. The fact that Tivo and Dish have voice-enabled remotes now makes those interfaces even better for those who choose to utilize the new feature. This largely comes down to the remote. If Amazon came out with a remote that had the functionality of a Tivo or Dish remote, it would probably make the Recast (and Tablo, AirTV, etc.) much more attractive to me.

When it comes to trick play, the Recast did very well for a streaming interface, although I prefer Dish's 30/10 skip and Tivo's FF/RW. The way streamers make these functions work just isn't quite as smooth as the best physical DVRs. In this respect and most of the others, we are spoiled. Our expectations have just been set too high.


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Has someone started a thread on the subject?


Do you mean here or anywhere? It's certainly a good idea to do here to keep from sidetracking threads about other topics. We all see how the Sirius/XM talk ruined the other thread!


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

ncted said:


> Well, it was a bit inconsistent to begin with. On the Hopper3, tuning is not instantaneous, but it is pretty quick, much better than older Satellite receivers -- definitely much less than 5 seconds. The Roamio OTA I used to have was also very fast at tuning channels. Sometimes the Recast tuning would be very fast, and other times it would take several seconds to start displaying video from a newly-tuned station. At times I'd wonder if something was wrong with it since it took so long. The longest channel change I measured was about 7 seconds while it was too fast for me to measure at other times.


This is the nature of a whole house DVR. You press a button on the remote, the remote sends a command to the set top device, the device sends a command to the DVR, the DVR acts on the command, the set top device buffers the stream, and the set top plays the stream out of the buffer.



ncted said:


> To tune a channel that doesn't show up in the recent items on the Firestick's Home tab would require me to change to the Live or DVR tab, and they either choose it from the recent items there or several more clicks to get the channel guide and scroll through that to find what I want. I realize the idea is to use Alexa, which I hate voice interfaces, but I tried it anyway. Alexa seems have trouble hearing/understanding me, which I don't really understand. For one, Siri doesn't seem to have much trouble when I driving (really the only time I routinely use a voice interface), even with road and wind noise. I don't have much of an accent. Most people think I am mid-western despite growing up in NY, SC, TN, VA, and NC. My voice is somewhat deep, but we're not talking Barry White depths here. Alexa should be able to hear me. I tried on three different Firesticks with minimal success. Anyway, I wasn't very successful with the voice interface, and the manual navigation involved a lot of clicks, especially compared to Tivo or Dish where it is a button click or two to get to regularly-used things like the Guide or list of recordings. This isn't meant to be a "I like the old way of doing things" rant. I really tried to make it work under the paradigm the Amazon created. I quickly got used to which things I have to do to accomplish the tasks I routinely performed, but, upon analysis, I found it inefficient compared to established methods. The fact that Tivo and Dish have voice-enabled remotes now makes those interfaces even better for those who choose to utilize the new feature. This largely comes down to the remote. If Amazon came out with a remote that had the functionality of a Tivo or Dish remote, it would probably make the Recast (and Tablo, AirTV, etc.) much more attractive to me.


I don't think the effort to change from app to app is unreasonable. Very similar to what you might do with a TiVo. Once in the DVR, navigation is pretty nice. Just hit the back button to conjure the Channel Guiden or the options button then select Channel Guide. With Pluto, Philo, or Vue, you do not have to leave the EPG to switch 'apps'. Alexa will 'learn' your voice in time.



ncted said:


> When it comes to trick play, the Recast did very well for a streaming interface, although I prefer Dish's 30/10 skip and Tivo's FF/RW. The way streamers make these functions work just isn't quite as smooth as the best physical DVRs. In this respect and most of the others, we are spoiled. Our expectations have just been set too high.


You probably should have given the Recast more time. It grows on you. One of the nice things about using the Recast/Stick combo is that your wife can use the TV the she likes while you play -- you just need to remember to put the seat down when you are done.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

Several people mentioned they connected the Recast via ethernet. What exactly does that do other than download the guide data? Assuming that you're watching TV using a Firestick that is not hard wired, doesn't that mean you would still need a solid wireless connection between the Recast and each Firestick?


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

Adam C. said:


> Several people mentioned they connected the Recast via ethernet. What exactly does that do other than download the guide data? Assuming that you're watching TV using a Firestick that is not hard wired, doesn't that mean you would still need a solid wireless connection between the Recast and each Firestick?


You can also add a wired connector to the sticks. The Cube comes with one.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

wizwor said:


> This is the nature of a whole house DVR. You press a button on the remote, the remote sends a command to the set top device, the device sends a command to the DVR, the DVR acts on the command, the set top device buffers the stream, and the set top plays the stream out of the buffer.
> 
> I don't think the effort to change from app to app is unreasonable. Very similar to what you might do with a TiVo. Once in the DVR, navigation is pretty nice. Just hit the back button to conjure the Channel Guiden or the options button then select Channel Guide. With Pluto, Philo, or Vue, you do not have to leave the EPG to switch 'apps'. Alexa will 'learn' your voice in time.
> 
> You probably should have given the Recast more time. It grows on you. One of the nice things about using the Recast/Stick combo is that your wife can use the TV the she likes while you play -- you just need to remember to put the seat down when you are done.


I have plenty of experience with whole-home DVRs, including Tivo Roamio with Minis, Hopper2000 and Hopper3 with Joeys, multiple HR24s, HR54 with C61k, and the ill-fated TWC Navigator Whole Home DVR. The Recast is definitely better than my client experience with the TWC and C61k products, and may be better than the original Hopper2000 and HR24s, but it lacks the smoothness of operation of the Hopper3/Joey and Roamio/Mini experience. The Recast was just inconsistent, sometimes to the point of too laggy for my, and more importantly my wife's, tastes. Like I said, we are clearly spoiled.

The steps to change between apps is not bad in my opinion, but when my wife is asking me "is this taking so long because of the new DVR?" I know it won't fly for regular use. I think the option to create some shortcuts for Channel Guide and Recordings that could go on the Home screen would help a lot.

I was starting to run out of time with the Amazon return policy, and I wanted to get things back to normal before I go out of town for a vacation. My goals going in were to get familiar with the product enough to form a general opinion at a minimum, and find a long-term replacement for Dish if everything was perfect.

To be clear: *At the end of the day it is a good product at a great price.* I would recommend anyone looking to go OTA check it out.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

@ncted, Thanks for the follow up. I totally identify with you. It really comes down to how much convenience/functionality you're willing to give up to save money. I'm really cheap, so I'll endure a lot to avoid $100+ cable/satellite bills.

But there's also something else. Even though my Tivo system (lifetime, so it costs me zero to operate) runs circles around Recast in the DVR department, I still use Recast instead due to better streaming integration. If Tivo would address that, I'd have my Recast on ebay so fast it would make your head spin.


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

We've been TiVo OTA users since our first HD unit, and migrated to Premieres, and finally Bolts. Along the way, I used a ChannelMaster DVR at a second home- that was functional for recording, until Rovi bought out Goldstar and stopped supplying OTA guide information. I own a Tablo, and now a Recast. Back in our TiVo HD days, before streaming was even a thing, TiVo was the perfect solution. As the streaming and OTT options have grown, they haven't for TiVo, and while I had super high hopes at one time that the Bolt would have a higher app selection, it doesn't, and probably never will. 

The Bolts are still useful, and while the Recast and Tablo are interesting, there's no one perfect solution. If TiVo would up their app game, they'd be a world-beater. If Amazon could incorporate the recast functionality into their non fire-tv box Prime Video apps, that would make them a world beater. If TiVo could figure out how to improve their transcoding video quality on SD source material, they might be a world beater. If SiliconDust had a single box plug and play platform with apps that worked across multiple platforms, then they... etc.

It's something of a first world problem when the biggest TV watching complaint is the requirement to switch inputs for different content, but that's where we are these days. While I think TiVo as a center of the viewing universe model has gone as far as RoVi/TiVo is willing to take it, I hope that I'll be proven wrong. I have hopes that Amazon will keep adding features to make the ReCast more accessible. I have hopes that Tablo may improve, but also believe that in time they will reduce the number of platforms that they provide apps for (as evident in the different levels of functionality between the FireTV Premier app, the regular FireTv app, the Roku App, the LG WebOS app, the Samsung app, and so on). We live in interesting times. To paraphrase Fitgerald: And so we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly not to the past, but in hope for the future. 

And so it goes.


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## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

ncted said:


> I appreciate your enthusiasm for this, but it really doesn't seem like something that would work well for us for some reason. Maybe I am missing something?


what wouldn't work well for you?

-integrated guide with OTA and Cable channels via Cable TV Anywhere login, philo, hulu live tv, Sling, youtube tv, fubo, psvue, or direct tv now with the ability to add multiple services

- automatic commercial skip that doesnt manipulate the file like plex

- ability to manually fix the commercial skip per recording

- local recording with ability to pull recordings

- api for integrations

- out of home access

- no "tuner" limit on TV Anywhere for recording or streaming

- etc, etc.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

Aero 1 said:


> what wouldn't work well for you?
> 
> -integrated guide with OTA and Cable channels via Cable TV Anywhere login, philo, hulu live tv, Sling, youtube tv, fubo, psvue, or direct tv now with the ability to add multiple services
> 
> ...


The complexity of setup was what I was concerned about.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

BillyClyde said:


> I was very skeptical too before I tried it. You don't have to invest in an HDHomerun tuner to try it you know. I believe there's a free trial. You can download the Channels DVR app, download the Beta and set it up to test out the TVE part of it at least. The tuner would just add your locals which is already known to work very well as @Dave Zatz can attest to.
> 
> Have you read a lot or even anything about it? What questions do you have? Feel free to ask away!





Aero 1 said:


> what wouldn't work well for you?
> ............
> - local recording with ability to pull recordings
> ...........


OK, so assume I have a HomeRun tuner and have installed the Channels Plus DVR app on my Fire TV, and subscribed to the Channels DVR Plus service. Where do the "local recordings" go? (There is no hard drive in the setup just described.) Is the Channels DVR actually primarily a cloud DVR?


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## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

ncted said:


> The complexity of setup was what I was concerned about.





dlfl said:


> OK, so assume I have a HomeRun tuner and have installed the Channels Plus DVR app on my Fire TV, and subscribed to the Channels DVR Plus service. Where do the "local recordings" go? (There is no hard drive in the setup just described.) Is the Channels DVR actually primarily a cloud DVR?


I have mine running on my 8 year old windows 8.1 plex server without any issues.

no, not cloud. you can install it on a bunch of things: Channels - Channels DVR Server

for the TV Anywhere beta version: NEW: TV Everywhere Support (BETA)


```
Channels DVR server running on one of the following:
a. Mac with Google Chrome installed (into /Applications)
b. Windows PC with Google Chrome installed
c. Linux PC or NAS using a 64-bit Intel CPU
d. Docker container using fancybits/channels-dvr:tve
e. NVidia SHIELD
Other DVR platforms (like ARM-based NAS) do not currently support this new feature.
```
and the killer feature: they use Gracenote, not Tivo for their guide data.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

ncted said:


> I was starting to run out of time with the Amazon return policy, and I wanted to get things back to normal before I go out of town for a vacation. My goals going in were to get familiar with the product enough to form a general opinion at a minimum, and find a long-term replacement for Dish if everything was perfect.
> 
> To be clear: *At the end of the day it is a good product at a great price.* I would recommend anyone looking to go OTA check it out.


Personally I would have just kept the Recast and used it in conjunction with the Tivo. Run a splitter from your antenna and feed it to both the Tivo and Recast. You can use the Tivo as you main unit and use the Recast to play around with (your wife doesn't have to use it if she doesn't want to). That way when you're traveling you can stream from the Recast.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

Adam C. said:


> Several people mentioned they connected the Recast via ethernet. What exactly does that do other than download the guide data? Assuming that you're watching TV using a Firestick that is not hard wired, doesn't that mean you would still need a solid wireless connection between the Recast and each Firestick?


The biggest reason to use wifi with the Recast's connection to the switch/router is so it can be wherever the antenna gets the strongest signal. e.g. if the antenna's in the attic, you can also run the Recast in the attic without having to run additional coax splitters, extensions or amplification.

But I use ethernet because the Recast, antenna and router/switch are all in the same location. And I'm still hoping (in vain) that Amazon will allow native MPEG2 to the FireTV endpoints at some point.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

Adam C. said:


> Personally I would have just kept the Recast and used it in conjunction with the Tivo. Run a splitter from your antenna and feed it to both the Tivo and Recast. You can use the Tivo as you main unit and use the Recast to play around with (your wife doesn't have to use it if she doesn't want to). That way when you're traveling you can stream from the Recast.


I don't have a Tivo any more. I'd consider going back, but I was hoping to find a more complete solution, hence the Recast. I have Dish now, which offers DishAnywhere for out-of-home streaming and downloading, like the Tivo stream does.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Aero 1 said:


> I have mine running on my 8 year old windows 8.1 plex server without any issues.
> 
> no, not cloud. you can install it on a bunch of things: Channels - Channels DVR Server
> ..............
> and the killer feature: they use Gracenote, not Tivo for their guide data.


Oh, so you have to dedicate a constantly running PC or NAS for the DVR feature. That's a significant factor. The Recast includes the HDD.

And the Recast also uses Gracenote guide data, I believe, and there are no subscription fees.


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

ncted said:


> The complexity of setup was what I was concerned about.


I think you don't have a good handle on how to set it up then. It's so easy I can't even tell you. I'm not good at this stuff and I've had no problem at all!

Basically download the Channels DVR server on what you want to use for it. (PC, Shield, NAS, etc.), Open it and start the setup routine which asks where to store recordings, activation/free trial, etc. then download the Channels DVR app on the client devices (AppleTV, FireTV, Web Browser, etc.) and Open that and point it to your IP of the DVR server. If you add an HDHomerun OTA tuner then it's just a matter of opening the server's settings page and doing a "scan for tuners" task. It should pick it right up if it's on the same network, then I think you just put in your location for Channels and guide data and you're pretty much done!

All the recording, guides, etc. should be self explanatory but if not there's an awesome support forum where the one developer literally responds within minutes of just about any post!

Channels DVR



dlfl said:


> OK, so assume I have a HomeRun tuner and have installed the Channels Plus DVR app on my Fire TV, and subscribed to the Channels DVR Plus service. Where do the "local recordings" go? (There is no hard drive in the setup just described.) Is the Channels DVR actually primarily a cloud DVR?





Aero 1 said:


> I have mine running on my 8 year old windows 8.1 plex server without any issues.
> 
> no, not cloud. you can install it on a bunch of things: Channels - Channels DVR Server
> 
> ...


^^^Yeah, what he said!^^^

I run my server on my NVidia Shield with no issues whatsoever.


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

dlfl said:


> Oh, so you have to dedicate a constantly running PC or NAS for the DVR feature. That's a significant factor. The Recast includes the HDD.
> 
> And the Recast also uses Gracenote guide data, I believe, and there are no subscription fees.


You can use an nVidia Shield with a USB hard drive attached, which also can serve as a client to host the app and be used as one of your TV interfaces, just like a TiVo.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

BillyClyde said:


> All the recording, guides, etc. should be self explanatory but if not there's an awesome support forum where the one developer literally responds within minutes of just about any post!
> 
> Channels DVR


It would seem to make sense to have a separate thread discussing the Channels solution, yeah?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> It would seem to make sense to have a separate thread discussing the Channels solution, yeah?


Normally, I'd agree. But since the $100 off deal is dead, so is the thread. May as well discuss alternatives.

Channels looks awsome, certainly best in class of this type of DVR. But it ain't free (I realize you get what you pay for), and it requires more infrastructure (host for storage, separate tuner). If I was going to bother with all that, I'd just dust off my old Windows Media Center system and go back to that. The simplicity of plugging in just one box is a lot of what made me dump WMC for Tivo and later Recast. I'm just not interested in going back to a more complex system.


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