# Goodbye DirecTV. the end of an era



## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

Well, I've done it. I scheduled an install of time Warner Cable Dayton for this coming Friday. For me, the two services are very comparable except for one thing. TWC has, or can make use of, Tivo and DTV does not. Its been great everyone, if you need me for something you'll find me in the std def Tivo forum and the Underground occasionally.


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## ronbo (Jan 21, 2002)

Yeah, I just stopped my DirecTV service this month, as well. I wasn't watching anything on my standard def ancient Sony Tivo/DTV box. Most of my TV viewing was OTA locals, downloads, HD and regulard def DVDs and Xbox 360 games and videos.
It does feel strange not having Tivo for the live TV stuff, but I'll cobble something together with a homebuilt PC.
I was just kind of disappointed with the HD offerings from DirecTV w/regards to pricing and the lease terms of their HD DVR equipment.


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## Jimbo713 (Dec 25, 2001)

A few months ago, I did the exact same thing. DirecTV had become just TOO expensive - the HD offerings were ho-hum - and Time Warner here was just fine. I updgraded to the latest TiVo's (HD TiVo and Series two) and I'm saving over $100 per month with the cable/phone/road runner bundle.

It is the *end of a long 10 years with DirecTV!*


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## lonewoolf47 (Nov 16, 2001)

Jimbo713 said:


> A few months ago, I did the exact same thing. DirecTV had become just TOO expensive - the HD offerings were ho-hum - and Time Warner here was just fine. I updgraded to the latest TiVo's (HD TiVo and Series two) and I'm saving over $100 per month with the cable/phone/road runner bundle.
> 
> It is the *end of a long 10 years with DirecTV!*


When you canceled after ten years, what was the reaction of the CSR?


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

I think the question is how many times did you say "No I would just like cancel my service". I think I said it 15 or twenty times.


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## lonewoolf47 (Nov 16, 2001)

No incentives to stay. No freebies. Nothing?


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

When I canceled, some time in the 1st quarter of this year (I think), Direct said so long. They have never called to try to get me back, never offered anything. I had been with them a long time but I was a low dollar customer, I think around $65 per month. I do miss my TIVO. Maybe they already know I would never go with any provider that required a two year commitment. 

I left because I wanted the ability to watch DVR content from other TVs in my house. Still can't, lol. I went with Uverse, great potential, but have yet to deliver Whole House DVR. My guess is they have just one programmer who works on their DVR software. But, no commitment, the service is fine and I can walk at anytime. I'm guessing WHDVR is at least a year away.


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## mp11 (Jan 29, 2008)

I also am halfway into a 2 year contract with DTV. I wont mention the problems I've had over the last 8 months with "thier" DVR, because I've done enough of that. But when this contract is over...it's over. Never again will I sign a contract for TV. The thing about a contract is this, when things go well...it great! But when things dont go well, 2 years is a very long time.

BTW: What is whole house DVR?


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## pkwhisker (Dec 26, 2006)

Hey everybody, just got my first HDTV, and I have a regular SD TiVo, and I keep hearing DTV is the only company out there that offers the TiVo service...YET they want me to sign a 2 yr contract! After reading the comments here, I was hoping to find out if anyone knows if DISH or CHARTER or ATT (only ones I can get) offers a TiVo service? Or are you guys not even using your TiVo with your services any more? I want to get an HD TiVo one day soon...heck I don't want to sign another long ass contract with DTV again AND they want to charge over a hundred bucks to install an HD new dish etc.

THANKS EVERYONE I am still NEW to choices... and wanting to get HD Service and still use my old Tivo!


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## restart88 (Mar 9, 2002)

Check the responses in your thread about it. You were misinformed.


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## ronbo (Jan 21, 2002)

mp11 said:


> ...But when this contract is over...it's over. Never again will I sign a contract for TV. The thing about a contract is this, when things go well...it great! But when things dont go well, 2 years is a very long time...


When a company is more interested in signing/renewing a contract to keep you as a customer rather than just keeping you by providing the best price/service, they're pretty much saying they AREN'T going to provide you the best price or service. 
It's never in the consumer's interest to sign a long term contract with a service provider, that's why they have to throw in the freebies and other incentives.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

You can get out of the contract.

It's called, "Satisfaction guaranteed or give us some money Jack."


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Ahhh, the constant complaints about contracts. Love it. If you don't like the contract then try to find someone that doesn't have one. I personally can't find one other then Uverse (which still isn't on my block). Cable has a contract (around here anyway) for their triple play or best price and even with Tivo if you want the best price guess what, contract for up to 3 years. So pick your poison and go with it. I don't like to have a contract either but it is what it is.

pkwisker, DirecTV no longer offers a Tivo based receiver and they haven't for nearly 3 years now. If you want a Tivo HD then you need to go with cable, FIOS or OTA only and those are pretty much your only choices. Dish and DirecTV do not offer Tivo based options in their receivers.


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## inahaz (Feb 22, 2008)

I as well canceled a couple months ago and went with time warner. I didn't have any big issues with Directv, except for the tivo aspect. Here were my main reasons to change:

1. Had a DirecTivo HD unit. Won't work with their new satelite. Rather than blindly taking their upgrade, I decided to look around at Tivo's that would work with Cable.

2. Cost - With a TWC bundle, I'm saving over $70 per month. (sure that isn't all from Directv - I had 2 boxes with the HD package).

3. More HD Channels - Since I hadn't upgraded, I have more HD channels with Cable than I had with Directv.

4. More TV's in home with cable service - I have 5 TV's. With directv, I had 2 boxes and had to use splitters to share signals. I was a pain, but too costly in my opinion to hook up all TV's. In my opinion, cable was the much better solution here.

I was a 12 year subscriber to DirecTv. I was rather perplexed that they didn't try to keep me (not that they could have). They did refer me to customer retention. The CSR ask what she could do to keep me. I told her my main concern was with keeping the Tivo, but it won't work on the new sat. She appologized and we ended the call (took about 30 seconds). I did not subscribe to their Sunday Ticket or other sport packages. So, maybe I wasn't an ideal customer for them.

A couple weeks later, I received a check for the amount I had overpaid due to cancelling mid-month. There was a postcard attached requesting I fill it out and send it back with my reasons for cancelling. (Seemed odd that I would have to pay for postage after I had already told them my reasons.)

I really haven't heard anything from them sense.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

DirecTV calls occasionally to urge me to change to the new equipment and I tell them Tivo lured me to Directv, not their precious content.

And if they eliminate all my HD, fine. Just be sure to reduce my bill by 10 bucks. OTA works fine until something else comes along.


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## dcstager (Feb 16, 2002)

If Directv would just incorporate a Series 3 type machine - they wouldn't lose a single customer and probably expand their customer base substantially.


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

dcstager said:


> If Directv would just incorporate a Series 3 type machine - they wouldn't lose a single customer and probably expand their customer base substantially.


But they are expanding their customer base and don't have to pay TiVo any money.


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

I have a Tivo Series 3 connected to my bedroom HDTV and a DIrectv HR20 connected to my primary TV in the family room. I prefer the HR20. It has more features that I use compared to Tivo. Tivo hasn't updated the user interface for watching TV in years. The functionality has stayed the same. I don't care about home media or multiroom viewing. I use both DVRs to record and watch TV on my schedule and skip commercials. 

The things I like about the HR20 that Tivo doesn't have are:
1. I can watch the TV show in a window while using the guide to see what's on and while working on the to do list. 
2. Caller ID, huge!
3. Percent of disc space remaining.
4. Video on demand with lots of free programs.
5. More HD channels than anyone else.

Directv continually works to improve the feature set of their DVR. It also has home media functionality so you can watch pictures, play music and play videos on your TV from your computer. 

At this point the only thing Directv is missing is multiroom viewing and dual live buffers. 

I can live without those features, though I do occasionally miss dual live buffers. 

To me content is king. I don't watch the user interface. If you are into HD programming, Directv's DVR is the way to go.


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## tevoisseur (Jul 12, 2008)

Items 4 and 5 are content related not DVR related. So, you really can't compare that to Tivo.



Runch Machine said:


> I have a Tivo Series 3 connected to my bedroom HDTV and a DIrectv HR20 connected to my primary TV in the family room. I prefer the HR20. It has more features that I use compared to Tivo. Tivo hasn't updated the user interface for watching TV in years. The functionality has stayed the same. I don't care about home media or multiroom viewing. I use both DVRs to record and watch TV on my schedule and skip commercials.
> 
> The things I like about the HR20 that Tivo doesn't have are:
> 1. I can watch the TV show in a window while using the guide to see what's on and while working on the to do list.
> ...


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Runch Machine said:


> I have a Tivo Series 3 connected to my bedroom HDTV and a DIrectv HR20 connected to my primary TV in the family room. I prefer the HR20. It has more features that I use compared to Tivo. Tivo hasn't updated the user interface for watching TV in years. The functionality has stayed the same. I don't care about home media or multiroom viewing. I use both DVRs to record and watch TV on my schedule and skip commercials.
> 
> The things I like about the HR20 that Tivo doesn't have are:
> 1. I can watch the TV show in a window while using the guide to see what's on and while working on the to do list.
> ...


There is a lot more content over the internet than there is over a single provider.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

tevoisseur said:


> Items 4 and 5 are content related not DVR related. So, you really can't compare that to Tivo.


What he is saying is that for many/most people the fact there isn't a dancing Tivo guy on screen doesn't matter. Content is the #1 decision to choose a provider. If Tivo is your #1 reason then go where you can get Tivo and DirecTV or Dish isn't it.


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

To me, Multi room viewing is the huge advantage to Tivo. If you haven't experienced it, you have no idea how convenient it is. There were times when I was taping four shows at one time (on thursday nights) and I would have to change rooms to watch those shows if I had a DirecTV DVR. Not with Tivo. I just can't believe the other DVR makers haven't caught up with that. If it weren't for MRV, no tivo might not be a deal breaker for me.


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## tevoisseur (Jul 12, 2008)

Ok, but when making a comparison like that, he should compare features. Tivo cannot help the fact that Directv does not allow them to make a box that works with their system. They also cannot help the fact that Directv won't pay for the extra feature set on the current boxes.

And just like the cable companies, Directv Tv and Dish should be forced to open that content up to Tivo customers.



shibby191 said:


> What he is saying is that for many/most people the fact there isn't a dancing Tivo guy on screen doesn't matter. Content is the #1 decision to choose a provider. If Tivo is your #1 reason then go where you can get Tivo and DirecTV or Dish isn't it.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

MRV is pretty close on the DirecTV DVR by the way. Most of the pieces are in place now via the Media Share (watch stuff from your DVR on your PC, watch videos from your PC on your DVR, etc.), just gotta bring it all together. I'd fully expect MRV to be in CE by fall.


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## tevoisseur (Jul 12, 2008)

They really should focus on their content and customer service and leave things like this to Tivo.



shibby191 said:


> MRV is pretty close on the DirecTV DVR by the way. Most of the pieces are in place now via the Media Share (watch stuff from your DVR on your PC, watch videos from your PC on your DVR, etc.), just gotta bring it all together. I'd fully expect MRV to be in CE by fall.


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## drumdude (Dec 25, 2007)

I too was a long time DirecTV customer. I was with them 12 years and left for Tivo HD. They didn't seem to mind at all when I canceled but since have contacted me regularly. As soon as I mention Tivo they hang up. 
Benefits with DirecTV - MUCH better programming. Fewer technical problems (picture freezing etc), more digital and HD channels.
Problems with Time Warner Cable - Let's face it folks. They stink!!! Picture freezing, cablecard problems they don't care to fix, analog channels, worst customer service of any company, they're just lame!
Even with all the problems it's worth it for Tivo!


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## Playloud (Jan 6, 2008)

I have never had DirecTV, but I did have Time Warner Cable. I never had a problem with TWC, but we recently made the switch to Verizon FIOS. I didn't like the idea of a contract, but I did like the idea of having SD and HD channels that were not recompressed. The first thing I did after getting FIOS set up was to watch a new episode of Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles in SD (shortly before I bought an HDTV), and I saw a noticeable improvement in picture quality. I then transferred the show recorded from FIOS to my laptop with Tivo Desktop in order to check the file size of the shows. As I suspected, the file size was larger than the other shows of the same series that had been recorded off of TWC.

The only problem with FIOS, is you have to make sure they don't over bill you, which seems to happen often. It only takes a call to get the adjustment made, but they can't seem to figure out how many boxes we have of each type. I would rate their customer service as "poor", but their TV and Internet service as "top notch".

I have read that DirecTV recompresses their shows rather heavily, so I don't think I would be interested that service, even if FIOS was not available in my area.


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

tevoisseur said:


> Ok, but when making a comparison like that, he should compare features. Tivo cannot help the fact that Directv does not allow them to make a box that works with their system. They also cannot help the fact that Directv won't pay for the extra feature set on the current boxes.


True but when a consumer is making a decision about which DVR to go with content makes a big difference. TiVo may be better than the HR20/21 but if I can't get very many HD channels with it than it loses out whether it is TiVo's fault or not.



> And just like the cable companies, Directv Tv and Dish should be forced to open that content up to Tivo customers.


That would be nice.


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## mp11 (Jan 29, 2008)

Runch Machine said:


> > The things I like about the HR20 that Tivo doesn't have are:
> > 1. I can watch the TV show in a window while using the guide to see what's on and while working on the to do list.
> 
> 
> ...


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

Well, that lasted all of about 5 days. Calling TWC to cancel service as we speak. Everyone in the house is unanimous, DirecTV was better. We all hated the fact that the SD DT Tivos could only record one digital channel at a time. Oh well, glad i did not cancel D*.


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## rbtravis (Aug 9, 2005)

bengalfreak said:


> Well, that lasted all of about 5 days. Calling TWC to cancel service as we speak. Everyone in the house is unanimous, DirecTV was better. We all hated the fact that the SD DT Tivos could only record one digital channel at a time. Oh well, glad i did not cancel D*.


Welcome Back, what can we say but you were warned. The cable companies promise the world but always fail to deliver. Stay here and enjoy good service and programming.


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## tevoisseur (Jul 12, 2008)

Well, that should have been understood. That's what the box does. You should have gotten the Tivo HD.



bengalfreak said:


> Well, that lasted all of about 5 days. Calling TWC to cancel service as we speak. Everyone in the house is unanimous, DirecTV was better. We all hated the fact that the SD DT Tivos could only record one digital channel at a time. Oh well, glad i did not cancel D*.


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## Dante101 (Aug 1, 2003)

The thing that keeps me with the Tivo is the Wishlist feature. I use it very heavily. I have around 150 saved searches that I try to check once a week (various movies, subjects, actors, etc)...

The DTV DVR can't handle that (they even admit it). I tried U-Verse for a month (mainly to get their updated internet, which I still have). I gave their Uverse TV service a fair shot, but it lacked a serious Wishlist-type of service.

I did like the access to the On-Demand stuff that Uverse had, but that doesn't overcome the lack of the powerful Wishlist function of the Tivo.

Luckily I don't mind much about hi-def. I dread the day when I'm forced to switch to DTV's DVR (if that day ever comes)...


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

rbtravis said:


> Welcome Back, what can we say but you were warned. The cable companies promise the world but always fail to deliver. Stay here and enjoy good service and programming.


I don't see the experiment as a failure of Time Warner Cable as much as the Tivo DT. No wonder they are offering $150 rebates for those suckers.



tevoisseur said:


> Well, that should have been understood. That's what the box does. You should have gotten the Tivo HD.


It was understood. I just didn't think it would be as big a hindrance as it turned out to be. As for the TivoHD, I would have loved to have gotten it. But currently, I have DirecTivos at each of my four televisions in my home. Four TivoHD's would have been prohibitively expensive and defeated the purpose of my trying to save some money in this deal.

I also missed Tivoserver and TivoWebplus far more than I thought I would.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Dante101 said:


> The thing that keeps me with the Tivo is the Wishlist feature. I use it very heavily. I have around 150 saved searches that I try to check once a week (various movies, subjects, actors, etc)...
> 
> The DTV DVR can't handle that (they even admit it).


You might be happy to know that the D* DVR does have a pretty good search capability that was enhanced with some pretty powerful boolean search terms a few months ago. In some cases it's actually better then the Tivo Wishlist, however it still is worse then the Wishlist in other ways. I can easily create a "saved search" and autorecord it for all Rangers games, pregame and postgame shows and limit that to a specific channel or range of channel and it works perfectly. But I'd gather your biggest issue is probably the limit on the number of searches or series links (50).

Unfortunately you don't see the "Tivo Wishlist" on any other DVR out there for a reason. I'd say patents are in the way.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Not unfortunate, just good business.


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## Cygnet Boy (Mar 21, 2003)

I have nothing bad to say about DTV, have had them since their initial inception in 1994 (AS USSB), and have been fairly loyal to them for the last 14 years. I put my account into a standby mode for three years because I had lived in a condo complex which didn't allow satellite dishes, but they were more than happy to reactivate my account when I moved out of that place. This year, I called them and spoke with retention, and they gave me $10.00 off my bill for an entire year, plus free sho/starz/tmc for 6 months, and I signed up 4 people with them so my bill right now is really cheap. It never hurts to call retention and say that "Cable is looking pretty good to me right now" and see what they say. Oh, and BTW, they did not make me sign/extend a contract, which I thought was just great.

Cyg.


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## lonewoolf47 (Nov 16, 2001)

Cygnet Boy said:


> I have nothing bad to say about DTV, have had them since their initial inception in 1994 (AS USSB), and have been fairly loyal to them for the last 14 years. I put my account into a standby mode for three years because I had lived in a condo complex which didn't allow satellite dishes, but they were more than happy to reactivate my account when I moved out of that place. This year, I called them and spoke with retention, and they gave me $10.00 off my bill for an entire year, plus free sho/starz/tmc for 6 months, and I signed up 4 people with them so my bill right now is really cheap. It never hurts to call retention and say that "Cable is looking pretty good to me right now" and see what they say. Oh, and BTW, they did not make me sign/extend a contract, which I thought was just great.
> 
> Cyg.


What is a standby mode?


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

lonewoolf47 said:


> What is a standby mode?


You can suspend your account and you'll remain a customer but pay no monthly bill (and of course no programming either). Right now it's up to 6 months in any given year but I'm sure you can get them to extend longer such as the above person or if you're send over to Iraq or something.

This is also a good thing to do if say you want to try out cable or FIOS and aren't sure. So suspend DirecTV, try out cable and if it doesn't work for you then you simply call up DirecTV and 10 minutes later you're watching TV again via your DirecTV equipment.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

inahaz said:


> I as well canceled a couple months ago and went with time warner. I didn't have any big issues with Directv, except for the tivo aspect. Here were my main reasons to change:
> 
> 1. Had a DirecTivo HD unit. Won't work with their new satelite. Rather than blindly taking their upgrade, I decided to look around at Tivo's that would work with Cable.
> 
> ...


Same story with me. I've been a D* sub for over 10 years. I moved about 16 months back, activating a new-to-me owned HR10-250 and had all kinds of problems with my old HDVR2. The techs came out 3 times and D* hit me with a $70 cahrge. Then they happily consistently took away HD channels while keeping the extra $30 charge for the fewer channels. Addign a $5 charge for the handful of basic HD channels was the ultimate insult to my intelligence. I called to have correct my bill so it didn't say I had a leased equipment fee when I didn't hyave any leased equipment.

When I called to cancel the rep tried a succession of offers I had no interest in. If they really wanted my business they could have contacted with moire than an outrageous bill. Then I got the last rip off: They claim I have a commitment for my no equipment and ever higher bill for ever lesser service. I got hit with an early termination fee. 

Exactly three hours after I said in no uncertain terms to CANCEL! I got a friendly recording from DirecTV telling me my equipment was not going to work much longer but if I call they would be happy to arrange to send me new equipment at no charge.  Morons.

BTW, the day I pay the bogus early termination fee is the day I make it my mission in life to cost them 5 subscribers for every dollar. See if I don't.

Now I have a 1TB 165HD hour TiVo Series 3, with HD, all of the online features, TiVo2Go, pyTiVo etc. The biggest problem recently is I can only record a little over 48 hours of new shows in a 24 hour day. 

The only thing I miss is having a second TiVo in my bedroom for occasional use. As it is now I get by with analog cable but it's really painful not be able to do trick plays. I'm going to figure out a way to fix that, maybe by eventually getting an HD TiVo. I wish there was a thin-client for Slingbox.


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## restart88 (Mar 9, 2002)

shibby191 said:


> You can suspend your account and you'll remain a customer but pay no monthly bill (and of course no programming either). Right now it's up to 6 months in any given year but I'm sure you can get them to extend longer such as the above person or if you're send over to Iraq or something.
> 
> This is also a good thing to do if say you want to try out cable or FIOS and aren't sure. So suspend DirecTV, try out cable and if it doesn't work for you then you simply call up DirecTV and 10 minutes later you're watching TV again via your DirecTV equipment.


It may be different now but I recall reading in the old days of that suspension scheme only extending the early term date. Anyway, if their aim is to suck as much money out of you as possible I'm sure they will have that base covered if it's permissible by law.

That said, I've had pretty good experiences with D*. Of course I just have old SD receivers in my family so we never make any service calls.


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## tivoedge (Jan 17, 2002)

Runch Machine,

I had to laugh reading your message because of how much I disagree, and everyone in my house (3 kids + boss) as well. About 6 months ago I wanted digital in the kids' main tv area which also is a sort of common area and went with the HR20 since we're DTV and sucky cable I'm not willing to deal with. (We needed to replace one of those old wonderful Phillips DTV units.) Wow - was I persona non grata in our house! It was unanimous - the DTV DVR was a usability nightmare compared to the ease and grace of TiVo.

Dancing guys aside, I work in the informatics industry and deal with user interfaces extensively trying to make things eaier for a very demanding group of users. That's why I was always so impressed with the Tivo interface which they brilliantly extended to their remote. For weeks and weeks, every time I picked up the HR20 remote I needed to stare at the bugger trying to figure out which button I needed. The TiVo remote is so well ergonomically structured and laid out that from the getgo -- you pick it up and go with your eyes on the screen.

Despite the eye candy of digital, my 20 year old when home still knocks me for ditching Tivo. The comparison to the HR20 only served to reinforce for me the genius of the Tivo interface and design, and multi-room <=> transferring is a killer feature -- as is the ability to move Tivo recordings to my ipod as I get ready for a business trip via Tivo Desktop; both things I can't do with the HR20. (I never touch the tv in a hotel room.)

After about my first 30 minutes of the HR20, it hit me hard: the HR20 is the PC to the Tivo Apple. The HR20 is the vanilla, first gen mp3 player to the Apple ipod. Same deal. One elegant and a joy to use, the other, well works, yes, but is painful and makes you pay the whole way ...

You're probably with Directv in some capacity and hey that's cool. My advice is to scrap everything and start over with a clean slate. At least they're trying ... why? TiVo!



Runch Machine said:


> I have a Tivo Series 3 connected to my bedroom HDTV and a DIrectv HR20 connected to my primary TV in the family room. I prefer the HR20. It has more features that I use compared to Tivo. Tivo hasn't updated the user interface for watching TV in years. The functionality has stayed the same. I don't care about home media or multiroom viewing. I use both DVRs to record and watch TV on my schedule and skip commercials.
> 
> The things I like about the HR20 that Tivo doesn't have are:
> 1. I can watch the TV show in a window while using the guide to see what's on and while working on the to do list.
> ...


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

tivoedge said:


> It was unanimous - the DTV DVR was a usability nightmare compared to the ease and grace of TiVo.
> 
> Dancing guys aside, I work in the informatics industry and deal with user interfaces extensively trying to make things eaier for a very demanding group of users. That's why I was always so impressed with the Tivo interface which they brilliantly extended to their remote. For weeks and weeks, every time I picked up the HR20 remote I needed to stare at the bugger trying to figure out which button I needed. The TiVo remote is so well ergonomically structured and laid out that from the getgo -- you pick it up and go with your eyes on the screen.


I don't want to have another thread go downhill but what is so hard with the HR20? Nearly all the same buttons that exist on the Tivo exist on the HR20 remote and do the same things. Pull up the guide and hit record twice to set a season pass. It's all pretty simple. Yes, UI is a choice but I find both the Tivo UI and the DirecTV UI just as simple and easy to use, just different. So what is so hard with the DirecTV UI? Not talking features here, just UI.

I mean, I certainly have no problem navigating the Windows GUI while I'm confused on a Mac because I don't have one. In my experience it's all what you're used to and if you have an open mind. Now that I mostly have DirecTV DVRs my wife gets frustrated at the remaining Tivo because she can't do what she's used to on the others. It's simply what you use all the time and get used to.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

shibby191 said:


> I don't want to have another thread go downhill but what is so hard with the HR20? Nearly all the same buttons that exist on the Tivo exist on the HR20 remote and do the same things. Pull up the guide and hit record twice to set a season pass. It's all pretty simple. Yes, UI is a choice but I find both the Tivo UI and the DirecTV UI just as simple and easy to use, just different. So what is so hard with the DirecTV UI? Not talking features here, just UI.
> 
> I mean, I certainly have no problem navigating the Windows GUI while I'm confused on a Mac because I don't have one. In my experience it's all what you're used to and if you have an open mind. Now that I mostly have DirecTV DVRs my wife gets frustrated at the remaining Tivo because she can't do what she's used to on the others. It's simply what you use all the time and get used to.


Maybe it is what you're used to, but there's more to it. One of the many things TiVo got right on the UI and the remote was the shape, layout, and number of buttons, etc.

I'm so used to the TiVo remote I can zip around and do what I intend as if it was reading my thoughts. The only thing that bites me is the differences between the button locations on the TiVo vs. DirecTV vs. TiVo Series 3 glo remote. I can deal with the rest like moving the Select, but not when those spawns of Satan moved the chan button location to be where thumbs are on the glo. 

One design philosophy TiVo got right is that you don't need a button for each function, you need basic buttons on the remote and MENUS that let you accomplish each function. It along the same line as Apple thinking you can get by with a single button mouse (they're wrong. You need 2 buttons even on a Mac. ) We don't have 100 button computer mice, we have a few buttons and menus on the computer that get you where you want to do a thousand things.

Besides, I'm much too old now to be looking for the labels on the usual 40-100 button remotes other makers ship. I have a Harmony and the remotes for my receiver and TV and really get miffed if I have to turn on a light and put on glasses and LOOK at it to do something. They all reek to high heaven.

The remotes on the D* and Motorola DVR are the same.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

shibby191 said:


> Pull up the guide and hit record twice to set a season pass.


By guide, I take it you mean one of the newspaper-type grid or context guides whihc as far as I know are ubiquitous to all DVRs. Assuming so, any DVR whihc requires the user to pull up a guide is all but useless. In nearly 9 years of using a TiVo, I've looked at the guides a handful of times (mostly doing research) and used them never. I can't really speak to the HR specifically, since I've never used one, but if it requires a guide to schedule recordings, then it's drek. If not, then it's another matter.



shibby191 said:


> Not talking features here, just UI.


Well, first of all, wouldn't you agree that any reasonable review of any device, including a DVR, requires proper consideration of both?



shibby191 said:


> I mean, I certainly have no problem navigating the Windows GUI while I'm confused on a Mac because I don't have one.


I detest both, which is why whenever practical I use neither.



shibby191 said:


> In my experience it's all what you're used to


No, not entirely. Familiarity is one element of any reviewer's opinion, but I certainly do not consider any element of a system to be superior simply because it is familiar or inferior merely because it is not. I am thrilled to abandon a familiar utility if I encounter one which allows me to accomplish more - which is to say is more flexible and more powerful. Given the fact the new utility is more flexible and more powerful, it is almost a given it will not be familiar, or at least unfamiliar in terms of the old utility. It might be a familiar element of some other system, of course, adapted to a new use, in whihc case it might be both familiar and superior.



shibby191 said:


> It's simply what you use all the time and get used to.


Again, not entirely. I had a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD with the SARA software on it for six months. I could have had it for a decade and I would never have gotten used to that piece of $#!&. I'm given to understand the DTV DVRs have much better UIs than SARA, however, so in terrms of this forum, the DTV units may indeed be much easier to which to get used, but the last I checked, there were a number of deal-breaker deficiencies on the DTV DVRs.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

netringer said:


> Maybe it is what you're used to, but there's more to it.


Exactly. Familiarity is only one aspect, and a temporary one, at that. Having been forced to use Windows on a daily basis for more than 15 years, I am quite used to it. I still swear at it vehemently 10 or 15 times a day, however. Not only is this unlikelyto change, it's getting worse.



netringer said:


> One of the many things TiVo got right on the UI and the remote was the shape, layout, and number of buttons, etc.


I agree about the shape and layout. I wish it had a couple of more buttons dedicated to a couple of common functions, separate Power On and Off buttons (which are more appropriate than a single Power button in a Home Theater environment), and four or five learning keys.



netringer said:


> One design philosophy TiVo got right is that you don't need a button for each function, you need basic buttons on the remote and MENUS that let you accomplish each function.


Agreed.



netringer said:


> It along the same line as Apple thinking you can get by with a single button mouse (they're wrong. You need 2 buttons even on a Mac. )


You're wrong, too. Three buttons and a dual axis scroll wheel is the minimum number of controls on a useable mouse. I prefer at least 10 controls, and 14 is better. I've tried some 16 control mice, and while the extra 2 controls are nice, none of the 16 control mice I have tried have the ergonomics down right.



netringer said:


> We don't have 100 button computer mice


No, but all the computers I use regularly have 14 "button" mice, if you consider right/left scroll and up/down scroll to be a "button". Otherwise, call it 10 buttons and a dual-axis scroll wheel.



netringer said:


> we have a few buttons and menus on the computer that get you where you want to do a thousand things.


Which is far, far too few. A good cli allows one to do any number of tens of millions of different things.



netringer said:


> Besides, I'm much too old now to be looking for the labels on the usual 40-100 button remotes other makers ship.


I resemble that remark. <sigh>



netringer said:


> I have a Harmony and the remotes for my receiver and TV and really get miffed if I have to turn on a light and put on glasses and LOOK at it to do something. They all reek to high heaven.


Well, not all. I really liked the remote which came with my old Hitachi rear projection TV. I like the remote which came with my Mitsubishi 62" DLP even better. That said, I have to admit the new TiVo S3 Glow remote is the best remote I have ever used in terms of ease of use and it's feel in the hand. My sister has an old Sony SAT-60 DTiVo, and even though it employs the same functions, the layout of the Sony is very much inferior to the Philips S1 and decendents - in particular the S3 Glow remote. The S3 remote does eat up power, though, and they had to go along and put in AAA batteries instead of AA batteries. I've already had to change batteries twice on my first S3 remote.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

netringer said:


> Maybe it is what you're used to, but there's more to it. One of the many things TiVo got right on the UI and the remote was the shape, layout, and number of buttons, etc.
> 
> I'm so used to the TiVo remote I can zip around and do what I intend as if it was reading my thoughts. The only thing that bites me is the differences between the button locations on the TiVo vs. DirecTV vs. TiVo Series 3 glo remote. I can deal with the rest like moving the Select, but not when those spawns of Satan moved the chan button location to be where thumbs are on the glo.
> 
> ...


So I guess it's the remote more then anything. Gotcha. Then again, I use a universal remote and any new device I get gets programmed into that and the remote goes to the graveyard never to see the light of day again. So on my MX-700 every single receiver has the same buttons doing the same thing, Tivo or otherwise.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

lrhorer said:


> By guide, I take it you mean one of the newspaper-type grid or context guides whihc as far as I know are ubiquitous to all DVRs. Assuming so, any DVR whihc requires the user to pull up a guide is all but useless. In nearly 9 years of using a TiVo, I've looked at the guides a handful of times (mostly doing research) and used them never. I can't really speak to the HR specifically, since I've never used one, but if it requires a guide to schedule recordings, then it's drek. If not, then it's another matter.


Was simply pointing out how easy something is on the HR20. There have been people that make it seem to hard to set a recording and it's actually quicker then on a Tivo with one touch record. And yes, there are probably at least half a dozen different ways to record something from the standard guid to searches to viewing the entire 2 weeks of programs on 1 channel.



> Well, first of all, wouldn't you agree that any reasonable review of any device, including a DVR, requires proper consideration of both?


Sure, but the point brought up was that the HR20 was hard to use and the Tivo was so easy. I guess maybe some features come into play there but it's mostly just UI.



> I'm given to understand the DTV DVRs have much better UIs than SARA, however, so in terrms of this forum, the DTV units may indeed be much easier to which to get used, but the last I checked, there were a number of deal-breaker deficiencies on the DTV DVRs.


I think just about anything is better then the cable DVR UI. 

So what deal breaker deficiencies are in the DirecTV DVRs interface/UI?

Look, I completely understand if there are features of a Tivo that are a deal breaker such as DLB or wishlists or functionality, but I just can't see how anything purely UI related can be, in this case.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

shibby191 said:


> Was simply pointing out how easy something is on the HR20. There have been people that make it seem to hard to set a recording and it's actually quicker then on a Tivo with one touch record.


That still requires user intervention (and TiVo has a one-touch record, althogh since I never watch Live TV, I never use it). Zero buttons is easier than 1.



shibby191 said:


> And yes, there are probably at least half a dozen different ways to record something from the standard guid


'Unacceptable.



shibby191 said:


> to searches


Possibly acceptable if the searches can be non-specific with hyper-fine search criteria and Boolean expressions. I would need more details. For example, can one search for all HD action-adventure movies in the next two weeks? Can one search for all movies starring John Wayne and directed by John Huston but not starring Maureen O'Hara? All documentaries about tiger sharks?



shibby191 said:


> to viewing the entire 2 weeks of programs on 1 channel.


Generally unacceptable, although marginally so.



shibby191 said:


> Sure, but the point brought up was that the HR20 was hard to use and the Tivo was so easy. I guess maybe some features come into play there but it's mostly just UI.


Some? How about a myriad? A lousy UI is unacceptable, but having a somewhat better UI than another machine which has a very good UI is just nice, not essential, and is meaningless without features.



shibby191 said:


> I think just about anything is better then the cable DVR UI.


I've had root canals which are less painful than the SARA UI, and I would much rather have a root canal than have to deal with that hunk of junk for another 6 months. When I purchased my first HD set, I got the CATV company's DVR because the Series 3 had not yet been introduced (it had been announced, however). My intent at the time was to keep the CATV DVR until about 6 - 9 months after the S3 was introduced, so the price would come down. I figured I could easily live with the extra cost for a year or a year and a quarter. After dealing with it for 6 months, however, I couldn't wait to get my hands on an S3, and $700 seemed a small price to pay to eliminate the frustration and aggravation of the 8300HD.



shibby191 said:


> So what deal breaker deficiencies are in the DirecTV DVRs interface/UI?


As I said, I can't speak too intelligently about the HR-20 or any other DTV unit other than the Series I DTiVo, but on any DVR which does not have them (or equivalents) either natively or as an option, they are:

TiVoWebPlus
mfs_utils
Multi Room Viewing
tserver (TyTool)
Suggestions
Wishlists with hyper-fine search criteria
Interactive Search with hyper-fine search criteria
pyTiVo
Galleon and all its 4th party utilities
Internet downloads
Minimum of 100M Ethernet network access
and of course HD recording



shibby191 said:


> Look, I completely understand if there are features of a Tivo that are a deal breaker such as DLB or wishlists or functionality, but I just can't see how anything purely UI related can be, in this case.


Well, if we're talking about a UI as bad as SARA, then I would definitely say it's a deal breaker. If we're talking about a UI that's relatively close in quaity, then no, but like I said, one must consider both features and how the UI implements them. I'm not saying the HR-20 or whatever fails this test, however, because as I mentioned, I am not familiar enough with it.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

lrhorer said:


> That still requires user intervention (and TiVo has a one-touch record, althogh since I never watch Live TV, I never use it). Zero buttons is easier than 1.


HUH? To record something on a Tivo you have to select said program from the guide (or from a search screen or whatenot), which then ends all video and takes you to a record screen where you have to push a bunch more buttons to actually record something. On the HR20 it's simply hit the record button once, twice for a season pass. That's it.

Not sure what Live TV has to do with it. I don't really watch Live TV either. You have to set up your recordings somehow in the first place, right? 



> 'Unacceptable.
> 
> Possibly acceptable if the searches can be non-specific with hyper-fine search criteria and Boolean expressions. I would need more details. For example, can one search for all HD action-adventure movies in the next two weeks? Can one search for all movies starring John Wayne and directed by John Huston but not starring Maureen O'Hara? All documentaries about tiger sharks?
> 
> Generally unacceptable, although marginally so.


I almost think you've never actually used a Tivo either. They are both very similar in the differing ways you can set up something to record. Both have a guide. Both have a search mechanism (Tivo has wishlists, DirecTV DVR has searches/boolean expressions) and so on.

I'll just stop with comments because methinks we aren't even in the same zip code in terms of a common ground here. If you aren't familiar with the way the Tivo UI works we certainly can't compare back and forth between it and the DirecTV DVR UI. 

Besides, in depth comparisons have been done and posted to death already, both here and at DBSTalk for the past couple years. My post here was to simply found out what is "so hard" about the DirecTV UI as I see that posted from time to time and am just curious as to what is so hard about it. In netringers case it seems to be the remote.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

shibby191 said:


> HUH? To record something on a Tivo you have to select said program from the guide (or from a search screen or whatenot), which then ends all video and takes you to a record screen where you have to push a bunch more buttons to actually record something.


There is a record button on the Tivo remote.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

fasTLane said:


> There is a record button on the Tivo remote.


Yes and assuming you are just wanting to record what is already playing then it's that simple. But to record any other way such as from the guide or a search then it's all the rigamaroll of stopping all playback, pull up a new screen, choose various options and so forth. It's not just the press of one button and you're done.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

shibby191 said:


> Yes and assuming you are just wanting to record what is already playing then it's that simple. But to record any other way such as from the guide or a search then it's all the rigamaroll of stopping all playback, pull up a new screen, choose various options and so forth. It's not just the press of one button and you're done.


I always get a kick out of this one function that is touted so highly. It's almost as if someone is implying that we are spending hours on the Tivo to set up a recording. Come on - it just ain't that hard to do, and it doesn't take all day


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## Da Goon (Oct 22, 2006)

Join Date: 12-24-2007 
Total Posts: 587 (*2.71 troll* posts per day)

get a life.


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## restart88 (Mar 9, 2002)

fasTLane said:


> There is a record button on the Tivo remote.


Ssssssss. That's a secret!


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

shibby191 said:


> HUH? To record something on a Tivo you have to select said program from the guide


Never. Not once. My three active TiVos and the retired one have recorded tens of thousands of videos without my ever looking at the







guide.



shibby191 said:


> (or from a search screen or whatenot),


'Sometimes. Indeed, at least once every two weeks I bring up a search of all the upcomig HD movies and select the ones I want. That amounts to about 5 - 10 recordings a week. The TiVos typically record a couple of hundred programs a week. Other than the few HD movies I select to record each week and a very occasional wishlist entry, I haven't selected a program to record in months. I let the TiVos handle all that.



shibby191 said:


> which then ends all video and takes you to a record screen where you have to push a bunch more buttons to actually record something. On the HR20 it's simply hit the record button once, twice for a season pass. That's it.


Well, first of all, this requires one to be watching live TV, which is foolish and wasteful, if you ask me. I haven't watched more than 4 or 5 live programs in the last 8 plus years. Secondly, TiVo suggestions amd wishlists record hundreds of programs without anyone even being home, let alone pressing a button. Thirdly, hitting the thumbs-up button during a thumbs-up ad will automatically record a program. I never use the feature, but it is one touch.



shibby191 said:


> Not sure what Live TV has to do with it.


One can't select <record> during a program unless one is watching the program.



shibby191 said:


> I don't really watch Live TV either. You have to set up your recordings somehow in the first place, right?


No, not necessarily. That is, not specifically. Hit thumbs-up or thumbs-down while viewing a program or its descripton and the TiVo learns what you like and don't like. After owning the TiVo for five or six weeks, TiVo Suggestions does an extremely good job of figuring out what I like. It's true a Season Pass or Wishlist must be (somewhat) speficially set up, but it must needs be so only once. There is a big difference between searching for something to record and specifying the sort of things one wants to record. For example, I just put in a wishlist a few days ago for HD + Iron Man on one of my TiVos. A year or so from now, it will show on some HD channel and be recorded. I might be 1000 miles from home the entire week, but the TiVo will take notice and record it. Collectively they also record all Humphrey Bogart and Alfred Hitchcock movies irrespective of resolution, as well as every Clint Eastwood or Sandra Bullock picture in HD, etc. Yes, I set those up, but with the exception of Iron Man, they were all set up within a couple of hours of receiving each TiVo.



shibby191 said:


> I almost think you've never actually used a Tivo either.


ROFL. If by "use", you mean waste lots of time fiddling with the UI, then you are right. If by "use" you mean watch shows recorded by the TiVo, then no offense, but you haven't a clue. I purchased my first TiVo back in 2000, and I currently own 3 Series III class TiVos with 500g, 1TB, and 2TB of storage, respectively. All three are full of programming, plus I have a 6TB Video server with more than 5TB of videos pulled off the TiVos for peramnent storage. All totalled, it's more than 1000 videos and a couple of thousand hours of programming.



shibby191 said:


> They are both very similar in the differing ways you can set up something to record.


As I already said, I am not specifically familiar with the HR-20, so I can't comment on similarities or disimilarities between the two. If the HR-20 is similar, great. If it isn't, tough I suppose.



shibby191 said:


> Both have a guide.


I would be more than happy if the TiVo did not, and just for the record, it has 2 on-screen guides, not 1, unless one counts each filter criteria as generatng a different "guide" in which case it has several guides. Since I don't have an HR-20, I don't really care much, but if I did have one I certainly would not use the guide. If for some reason it required me to use the guide (like SARA on the SA 8300HD), then I would get rid of it ASAP.



shibby191 said:


> Both have a search mechanism (Tivo has wishlists, DirecTV DVR has searches/boolean expressions) and so on.


The point: TiVo doesn't have "a" search mechanism, it has multiple search mechanisms. There are no fewer than 9 direct user search mechanisms, not including Wishlists, Suggestions, and internet downloads. Search by Title, Swivel Search, KidZone, Search by Channel, Guru Guides, Search by Time, etc all have their own specific search methods and available Boolean filter search criteria. Oh, yeah, I forgot, there's also the two silly on-screen guides. Even they have some rudimentary optional filters. Then on top of that there are the Wishlist search and Suggestions, as well as the internet downloads and of course browsing the LAN via whatever 3rd party HMO/HME apps one cares to employ (in my case Galleon and pyTivo).



shibby191 said:


> If you aren't familiar with the way the Tivo UI works we certainly can't compare back and forth between it and the DirecTV DVR UI.


Uh huh. 'Nearly 9 years of hacking more than a dozen TiVos, four of them my own, through five major software releases and numerous minor ones. 'Extensive knowledge of the binaries and OS used on the TiVo. 'Implementation of backdoor codes and system tweaks. 'Understanding of the electronics down to the component level. 'Even written some software for the platform. How much more familiar do I need to be? A TiVo developer?



shibby191 said:


> Besides, in depth comparisons have been done and posted to death already


A few, but many of them not vey accurate, at least on the TiVo side.



shibby191 said:


> My post here was to simply found out what is "so hard" about the DirecTV UI as I see that posted from time to time and am just curious as to what is so hard about it. In netringers case it seems to be the remote.


Well, first of all, the fact one must manually do it. Add that up over tens of thousands of recordings and "easy" becomes "hard" or at least extremely time consuming. The remote is also a factor. So is organization of menus. So is the flexibility of the unit. Hitting the <record> button is only "easy" if the recorder happens to implement all the features desired by the user in that button press. If the user must then go elsewhere to customize the recording in question, then it isn't so easy, after all. If the desired recording features are not available at all, then it isn't easy at all no matter how few button presses it takes to get what is available.

The bottom line measure is how much time and trouble is required to obtain exactly the desired result over time. If the HR-20 can produce essentially exactly the same results with reasonably the same amount of expenditure of time and trouble, then it is also "easy". If it cannot readily produce same results then it is not "easy", no matter how little time or trouble. If it can produce inferior results more easily, but obtaining precisely the desired results requires a great deal of extra time and trouble, then it is "hard", no matter how easy the inferior results might be. Thousands of button presses to record thousands of shows qualifies as "hard". So does browsing a guide. Letting the box do the work of selecting shows to record while I eat, sleep, work, play, or watch other programs uninterrupted by the selection process is definitely "easy".

If the HR-20 is "hard", then it is probably not one great big missing or problematic feature which makes it hard compared to the TiVo. It is lots of little things here and there, including the feel and layout of the remote, the lack of one or two search filters, an option that is missing or difficult to reach, etc. It all adds up.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

shibby191 said:


> then it's all the rigamaroll of stopping all playback


You keep saying that, as if "ending all playback" requires doing something. First of all, if the HR-20 continues to spool video when the user is attempting to manage recordings, then it is a piece of crap. There are only a few things more annoying than having a management application up over live video. It make the management difficult and the video worthless. Secondly, if I am selecting programs, then I'm selecting programs via whatever means. I'm not watching TV. Although such activities are far from a nightly procedure, when I do them, I do them, and it doesn't take long. I don't interrupt a program to do it,and it doesn't require a lot of buttons. Indeed, most often I simply use 3 buttons to start the selection process: Down Arrow, Select, and 0. The scheme is:

Search for Programs => Search by Title => HD => Movies => No sub category => 0

I just timed it, and it took 12 seconds (the TiVo is runnig a bit slow at the moment because it's crunching on a daily call and recording a couple of shows) in order for me to bring up a list of all the HD movies showing in the next two weeks (about 170 of them). Of course, going through the list and choosing which ones I want to record takes 10 minutes or so, but that has nothing to do with the TiVo. It would be the same (or more) for any DVR.



shibby191 said:


> pull up a new screen, choose various options and so forth. It's not just the press of one button and you're done.


Nor is it with the HR-20, unless once again it is a piece of crap. Again, I don't know, as I don't have an HR-20, but any device which fails to offfer a range of options to the user is worthless. Will the recording be padded 3, 4 or 5 minutes before and 10, 15 or 20 minutes after the scheduled time? Will the season pass record first run only, first run and re-run, or all episodes including duplicates? How many episodes will be kept on the disk at once? What is the minimum length of time the recording will be kept, or will it be completely protected from being deleted? How will a conflict with another recording be resolved? None of these options can be managed with a single (or double) button press, and if the HR-20 doesn't offer the user the options, then it's not only not easy, it's garbage. If it does, then fine, but it's not a single button press, either.

I also can't help but noticing you didn't address even a single one of my twelve deal-breakers.


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## pomerlp (Apr 22, 2008)

About the pulling the guide up while watching something 9.4 TiVo S3 and TiVo HD does that. It's just being released.


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

lrhorer said:


> None of these options can be managed with a single (or double) button press, and if the HR-20 doesn't offer the user the options, then it's not only not easy, it's garbage. If it does, then fine, but it's not a single button press, either.


Don't be asinine. There is definitely a use for a Tivo to be able to record a one time program with a single button press. One of the things I miss from the old Ultimate TV, and I don't miss much from that box, is the ability to schedule a one time recording from the guide by pressing the record button once, and to schedule a season pass by pressing the same button twice. You can always go into the settings for the recording afterward if you want to change something, but if you want to use the default settings, its a great time saver, not garbage. Don't let your obvious favoritism toward Tivo cloud your judgment totally.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

bengalfreak said:


> Don't be asinine. There is definitely a use for a Tivo to be able to record a one time program with a single button press.


There is a use for everything. That does not mean I have to find it useful myself. It also doesn't mean that what some people think is highly useful actually is in comparison to other avenues.



bengalfreak said:


> One of the things I miss from the old Ultimate TV, and I don't miss much from that box, is the ability to schedule a one time recording from the guide


The tiny amount of time supposedly saved (that in fact is not) by the ability to press only one button is far, far outweighed by the literally thousands of hours I would waste by using the guide. I calculated it once, and the time wasted by a moderately avid TV user by using the guide over the span of an adult lifetime adds up to the equivalent of *TWO YEARS* worth of wasted leisure time. No thanks.



bengalfreak said:


> You can always go into the settings for the recording afterward if you want to change something


If I always have to do it, it isn't easier, is it?



bengalfreak said:


> but if you want to use the default settings


Speaking generally, I virtually never want to use default settings. I can almost count the number of times some engineer (other than me) has come up with a suitable set of default settings for my use on the fingers of one foot. Speaking specifically, since I would never be in the situation (whihc is to say in the guide or watching live TV) where I would be able to use the one button feature, it's very existence is completely moot. Perhaps more to the point, no matter with what feature I am dealing, I want all the options available at point of use. You find it an important feature. Fine. I find it to be a patently stupid one. I certainly would never use it, and in no way is its absence a detriment to any DVR I use. You like it. Once again, fine. It's nothing in the least personal, but don't expect me to be impressed by the mere fact you like it.



bengalfreak said:


> its a great time saver, not garbage.


It is a massive time waster, not a time saver. It requires one to either be watching live TV - which if watching commercial broadcast TV wastes a minimum of 20% of one's viewing time, or easily several hours a week - or one must use a guide, which can waste nearly as much or more - up to 4 or 5 hours a week.



bengalfreak said:


> Don't let your obvious favoritism toward Tivo cloud your judgment totally.


I don't. I also don't have 5 hours a week to waste so I can save 45 seconds or so over the same time period. What's more, you are also ignoring my major points. Even if putting ones' self in the situation where one might take advantage of the one touch feature were not in and of itself a huge time waster, how does using a feature which takes even as little as a few seconds a week save any time at all when compared to zero? The vast bulk of what is recorded by my TiVos is done so without my pressing even a single button on an ongoing basis.


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