# $499 Lifetime Service???



## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Search for "tivo instant" on eBay. I don't want to link it. Did this guy find a backdoor? This is the same person selling a lot of DT units with lifetime.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

c3 said:


> Search for "tivo instant" on eBay. I don't want to link it. Did this guy find a backdoor? This is the same person selling a lot of DT units with lifetime.


My guess is that he has either a bunch of Grandfathered Series 1s or Humax units that he will activate Lifetime on and then immediately transfer the service to the TSN of the buyer.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

RBlount said:


> My guess is that he has either a bunch of Grandfathered Series 1s or Humax units that he will activate Lifetime on and then immediately transfer the service to the TSN of the buyer.


In the opinion of knowledgeable Forum members is the seller doing anything in violation of the current *TiVo Service Agreement* and/or *Service Payment Plans*?

There are 10 Lifetimes available for $499. each and so far none have been purchased. The seller has 100% positive feedback and offers a 100% money back guarantee, "If for any reason I cannot activate your Tivo with Lifetime, I will refund you immediately the full purchase price."


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

RBlount said:


> My guess is that he has either a bunch of Grandfathered Series 1s or Humax units that he will activate Lifetime on and then immediately transfer the service to the TSN of the buyer.


This was discussed a bit at the time the new pricing model was announced. This guy could get an order, then buy a Humax unit, activate it with lifetime, then transfer the service to your box, then return the Humax unit to the store unopened for a full refund.

But you could do the exact same thing yourself, and save $200. He is saving you the hassle of going to the store twice, and the ethical dilemma of knowing that what you are doing is within the rules, but still dishonest.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

ChuckyBox said:


> This was discussed a bit at the time the new pricing model was announced. This guy could get an order, then buy a Humax unit, activate it with lifetime, then transfer the service to your box, then return the Humax unit to the store unopened for a full refund.


I thought TiVoPony or TiVoOpsMgr said that after the cut off date (30 days from the end of lifetime service being sold) that Humax lifetime would only be transferable to other Humax units that qualified for lifetime.

If you wanted lifetime on anything else you needed a lifetime service gift card, or a lifetime service series 1, where the service was purchased pre Jan 2000 (and where it still had its 1 grandfathered lifetime transfer).


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Jonathan_S said:


> I thought TiVoPony or TiVoOpsMgr said that after the cut off date (30 days from the end of lifetime service being sold) that Humax lifetime would only be transferable to other Humax units that qualified for lifetime.


Right - the Humax to non-Humax loophole was closed.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

jfh3 said:


> Right - the Humax to non-Humax loophole was closed.


 :up: and :down:


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

This remonds me of the thread here a few weeks ago. There was a listing on eBay for a Series 3 TiVo (yes, I said Series 3!) for $500. The guy wanted payment now and said he would ship when available.

When the forum members found out, some emailed him and asked about the price. He said if it was more, he would pay the difference but if it was less, he kept it.

Unfortunately for him, the pictures he used were taken directly from a TCFer's website. He changed the pics that were linked to some pr0n and offensive slogans, so the guy's listing got taken down. It was hillarious.

Anyway, it sounds to me like this listing should be avoided like the plague!


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Guindalf said:


> This remonds me of the thread here a few weeks ago. There was a listing on eBay for a Series 3 TiVo (yes, I said Series 3!) for $500. The guy wanted payment now and said he would ship when available.
> 
> When the forum members found out, some emailed him and asked about the price. He said if it was more, he would pay the difference but if it was less, he kept it.
> 
> ...


Yeah that was great, caused a little ruckus cause it was not safe for work stuff here, but very very very funny.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

MikeMar said:


> Yeah that was great, caused a little ruckus cause it was not safe for work stuff here, but very very very funny.


Yeah - it actually got me banned for a while too!!!

I'm not going to say any more - I don't want to upset anyone (well, anyone with power anyway  )


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

499/6.95 = 71.79 months or 5.9 years


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

jfh3 said:


> Right - the Humax to non-Humax loophole was closed.


So what is the seller doing? It doesn't make sense to use grandfathered Series 1's for this. The seller has revised the listing so that it no longer displays the number of Lifetime subs available.

Here is the seller's description of how the deal works. Either this is really neat or it should be pulled from eBay!

*Activate any standalone Tivo unit with Lifetime service!

Requirements

Your Tivo must currently be inactive. Meaning its either never been activated, or you've closed your account.

Winning bidder will send me their Tivo 15 digit service number via email and I will activate this service # with Lifetime instantly upon receipt of payment (nothing will be shipped, only a confirmation email)

A new Tivo account will be generated for you with the information you provide (name, address, email, phone number). If you currently have a Tivo account online, you will need to provide me a different email and phone #) I will not be able to activate your Tivo to an existing account. IF you have more than 1 tivo, you can always call Tivo and have them transfer your other tivo's to this new account.

If you've just purchased your Tivo and you're waiting for $150 rebate, this activation will void your $150 rebate since Tivo considers it as not being a "NEW activation"

100% money back guarantee, If for any reason I cannot activate your Tivo with Lifetime, I will refund you immediately the full purchase price.*


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> 499/6.95 = 71.79 months or 5.9 years


And worth every penny of it to me!

The point is that some people will avoid Lifetime Service at $500. like the plague (some didn't want it for $300.) while others snap it up.

A choice is always a good thing. I can't understand why Lifetime Service isn't an official TiVo option even if it must be priced higher than $500.


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

It's possible this seller has some unused Lifetime gift cards from Best Buy.

I can't imagine anything else that would work that isn't against the terms of service.

If, in particular, she/he's paying monthly and reselling you Product Lifetime, that's explicitly not allowed, since she/he does not have a reseller agreement with us authorizing him/her to be reselling the TiVo Service.

Caveat emptor.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

TiVo Troll said:


> And worth every penny of it to me!
> 
> The point is that some people will avoid Lifetime Service at $500. like the plague (some didn't want it for $300.) while others snap it up.
> 
> A choice is always a good thing. I can't understand why Lifetime Service isn't an official TiVo option even if it must be priced higher than $500.


because they would only sell a few to people who would choose to pay that much for lifetime. Since lifetime does not really fit their business model anyway it is most likely not worth the hassle to maintain for TiVo at a higher rate with far fewer expected sales of it.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> because they would only sell a few to people who would choose to pay that much for lifetime. Since lifetime does not really fit their business model anyway it is most likely not worth the hassle to maintain for TiVo at a higher rate with far fewer expected sales of it.


You may be right. But the availability of Lifetime Service, even at a high price, makes a great advertising pitch. And, don't forget that once established a Lifetime account needs no followups and entails no billing or accounting expenses!


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> It's possible this seller has some unused Lifetime gift cards from Best Buy.
> 
> I can't imagine anything else that would work that isn't against the terms of service.
> 
> ...


It seems that using unused Lifetime Gift Cards this way would be counterproductive considering the price they command on eBay when sold directly.

How would your second proposed scheme actually work and how would it be possible to make money from such a scheme even if it could be set up?


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

The second proposed scheme (which has come up before) is that the eBay seller pays TiVo $6.95 per month, and receives $499 from you. If the box stays in service for longer than 71 months, they lose money, but otherwise they make money.

We shut down these schemes (which are often pyramid-style schemes) as soon as we learn of them. They are a bad idea for everyone involved.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

TiVo Troll said:


> So what is the seller doing? It doesn't make sense to use grandfathered Series 1's for this. The seller has revised the listing so that it no longer displays the number of Lifetime subs available.


Beats me.

By the description, the only way I know of that works would be using a lifetime card.

But then why not just advertise the card(s)?

Given the way it's worded, I suspect he may have a number of Humax boxes that he would try to use in some sort of activate/transfer scheme (which clearly won't work).

I would advise anyone thinking of this to avoid it (or at least find out how it would work and check back here first).

My money is on an mis-informed seller. Seems to have pretty good feedback, so hopefully, this isn't a scam.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

MY money would be on an out-and-out scam. Of course I have no proof, but that's what it sounds like to me.

Unless he's found a way to "fool the system" and put lifetime on a box without paying for it. I don't know if it's possible - and if it is, whether Pony & co would know about it, but in their position, I'd be tempted to explore a little deeper.

Maybe he's just taking the money and running? Wouldn't be the first time!


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> The second proposed scheme (which has come up before) is that the eBay seller pays TiVo $6.95 per month, and receives $499 from you. If the box stays in service for longer than 71 months, they lose money, but otherwise they make money.
> 
> We shut down these schemes (which are often pyramid-style schemes) as soon as we learn of them. They are a bad idea for everyone involved.


I can think of a number of other issues/problems with that type of scheme, but it's glad to see that you guys look out for and shut down this kind of stuff.


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## mick66 (Oct 15, 2004)

Is it still there or did it end or get removed or something? I get nothing when a do a search for "tivo instant" on eBay.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

I just looked again - the guy can't be using lifetime cards, assuming the following is true:

_If you've just purchased your Tivo and you're waiting for $150 rebate, this activation will void your $150 rebate since Tivo considers it as not being a "NEW activation"_

You need to use a lifetime card on a previously unactivated box, but that doesn't disqualify you from a rebate, since it is a new activation.

What's with the requirement for a new Tivo account? There's nothing from Tivo that would require this. But, if you look at the scheme TivoOpsMgr pointed out, you WOULD need a new Tivo account (so you could establish an active credit card) to carry out such a plan.

I'll change my previous advice to "Stay away. Stay far, far, away."


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

mick66 said:


> Is it still there or did it end or get removed or something? I get nothing when a do a search for "tivo instant" on eBay.


Hell the E-Bay item # is 9744551600, somebody should go for it just to tell us what he/her is doing. We could all chip in say 100 of us for $5 each and gain great infomation on how to get lifetime on the series 3.

Check out his lifetime DT for over $1000 that was sold; item 9730318426

This guy is good at what he does.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> The second proposed scheme (which has come up before) is that the eBay seller pays TiVo $6.95 per month, and receives $499 from you. If the box stays in service for longer than 71 months, they lose money, but otherwise they make money.
> 
> We shut down these schemes (which are often pyramid-style schemes) as soon as we learn of them. They are a bad idea for everyone involved.


I see. Of course in that case TiVo's _System Information_ page would indicate monthly service and not Lifetime.

Let's see if it's possible to find more about this seller's listing. I'll send an eBay message to the seller with questions. I'll inform him that his listing has the attention of these Forums and that TiVo Inc.'s Ops Mgr is aware of it.

The listing is either really neat or something which shouldn't be on eBay. The seller has been an eBay member since August, 2004, and so far has received 100% positive feedback with a feedback count of 65.

"Ah'll be back!"


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## Sirshagg (Dec 27, 2001)

Perhaps it's an inside job.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

TiVo Troll said:


> "Ah'll be back!"


This is the message I sent to the seller:

*"Your listing has received the attention of the TiVo Community Forums and of TiVo Inc's Ops Mgr who is suspicious of what you are offering! Here is the discussion:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=304482
I think that your listing is either really neat or shouldn't be on eBay. How can you offer TiVo Lifetime service legally? (I wish TiVo would bring their Lifetime Service option back even if they had to charge a price higher than $500 to make it pay.)"*


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## juicesxp (Jun 20, 2006)

THIS IS JUICESXP From ebay! Please invest in one of my products, Thanks!

To the Tivo Service OPS manager, none of the posted suggestions on how i'm doing this is correct. I'm not buying monthly service and selling it with lifetime because all of my DT units will show "product lifetime service" on its account & system information screen. Is what i'm doing against tivo service agreement?
The way I see it, i'm giving you (TiVo company) more customers and more money since I'm technically paying $450 for lifetime service to Tivo. At your current rate of $19.95 a month, you will not get $450 until a customer has had tivo for over 2 years, and here I am giving you this money instantly.

If my listing is considered a violation of Tivo service agreement, please let me know, I will immediately end my listings. 
However, I'd think my listings are beneficial for both Tivo and myself. We are both making money. If I must become an authorized retailer, i'm willing to do so. Also I think this speaks out to Tivo that many of us want the lifetime service back! People are willing to pay over $1000 (as in one of the Tivo's i've sold) just to get Lifetime service.
I'd prefer not to reveal how i'm doing this. This is the 1st time i've ever been so popular on a forum, feels great =)

To all other Tivo forum members, by getting this much attention, and the involvement of the Tivo Service Ops manager, it seems like I won't be able to activate anymore Tivo units with Lifetime very soon, so take advantage of my services before they dissappear. Through all the support documents offered on Tivo's website, i'm perfectly certain that what I'm doing is completely legal.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

juicesxp said:


> THIS IS JUICESXP From ebay! Please invest in one of my products, Thanks!
> 
> To the Tivo Service OPS manager, none of the posted suggestions on how i'm doing this is correct. I'm not buying monthly service and selling it with lifetime because all of my DT units will show "product lifetime service" on its account & system information screen. Is what i'm doing against tivo service agreement?
> The way I see it, i'm giving you (TiVo company) more customers and more money since I'm technically paying $450 for lifetime service to Tivo. At your current rate of $19.95 a month, you will not get $450 until a customer has had tivo for over 2 years, and here I am giving you this money instantly.
> ...


   

Now I really want to know how this guy is doing it. Caveat Emptor!!!!


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

RBlount said:


> Now I really want to know how this guy is doing it. Caveat Emptor!!!!


What the heck would he pay $450 to TiVo for that he is selling for $499 for a quick $50. His customer has the TiVo so he not buying a TiVo, Lifetime is still $299 if you can get it so who at TiVo is he paying the extra $150 to, an inside person at TiVo ?

I still think it worth 100 of us putting in $5 to see what he is up to.

8:04 Pm He just took the posting down I guess we won


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## juicesxp (Jun 20, 2006)

I meant how much Tivo is making by my services. $299 for lifetime plus the $150 voided rebate.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

juicesxp said:


> ... I'm technically paying $450 for lifetime service to Tivo.


This should be our big clue.

Here's what we know:

1. Only works on a box with no activation history.
2. Not considered new service for the purposes of a rebate, so it must be some kind of transfer.
3. Requires the seller to set up a new account for the buyer, again suggesting some kind of transfer scheme.
4. Costs $450 from the seller's point of view (but maybe he's counting the $150 rebate that the buyer can't get?).

It isn't a monthly-for-lifetime scheme, and he isn't using a lifetime gift card.

It has to be a transfer of some kind. What about through a unit that is defective? Or is there a way to use a lifetime card more than once (like some kind of activation/transfer/cancellation)?

Hmm, maybe I'll just go read TiVo's contracts again -- I could use a lifetime DT box until the Series 3 comes out...

Edit: I see now my guess about the rebate was correct.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

lessd said:


> I still think it worth 100 of us putting in $5 to see what he is up to.


OK, everyone send me $5 and I will buy the lifetime


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## juicesxp (Jun 20, 2006)

lessd said:


> What the heck would he pay $450 to TiVo for that he is selling for $499 for a quick $50. His customer has the TiVo so he not buying a TiVo, Lifetime is still $299 if you can get it so who at TiVo is he paying the extra $150 to, an inside person at TiVo ?
> 
> I still think it worth 100 of us putting in $5 to see what he is up to.


I meant how much Tivo is making by my services. $299 for lifetime + $150 voided rebate check. Sorry for the confusion.

I guarantee for anyone that purchases one of my units or the lifetime service that you will be 100% satisfied! I'm even giving you 100% money back guarantee if I cannot activate your Tivo with lifetime! Where is the risk??? Once we complete the transaction, you will be able to sync your Tivo with Tivo's servers and display "lifetime service" under the system & information screen of your Tivo!

My feedbacks show that I'm not a cheating seller, go ahead and try it out instead of arguing of how i'm doing this!


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

ah30k said:


> OK, everyone send me $5 and I will buy the lifetime


Nah, I vote for TivoOpsMgr. :


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Perhaps he simply had the foresight to buy up old defective S1 units where the people wern't aware of the grandfathered transfer ability.

Dan


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

ChuckyBox said:


> 1. Only works on a box with no activation history.


No, just currently inactive.

My bet is on the Humax loophole that's not really closed.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

juicesxp said:


> Through all the support documents offered on Tivo's website, i'm perfectly certain that what I'm doing is completely legal.


If you think it's legal, than post your method. Legal "methods" for getting lifetime service even after Tivo stopped promoting it have been disussed here for months.

If it's legal - more power to you and good luck on eBay.

If it isn't, you'll know in a hurry and you can voluntarily remove your listings and protect your eBay reputation.

But, until you come clean, no one here could possibly support what you are doing until we are comfortable that it's not a scheme.

(As for you selling a lifetimed DT unit for over $1000, you forgot to mention the $150 PayPal rebate involved on that one, probably a violation of eBay's listing terms  ).


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## juicesxp (Jun 20, 2006)

jfh3 said:


> If you think it's legal, than post your method. Legal "methods" for getting lifetime service even after Tivo stopped promoting it have been disussed here for months.
> 
> If it's legal - more power to you and good luck on eBay.
> 
> ...


I've ended my listing, I will be waiting for a reply from the Tivo OPs manager. But I still believe my method is completely legal


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## funtoupgrade (Mar 15, 2005)

lessd said:


> I still think it worth 100 of us putting in $5 to see what he is up to.


Don't waste your money. What is it going to prove if the unit ends up with lifetime on it like he says?

Sounds like this guy has a huge ego problem. He obviously loves the attention. If you play along with him and feed it he will probably spill it. If he was concerned about anybody else figuring it out he would never have posted on this forum.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

juicesxp said:


> I've ended my listing, I will be waiting for a reply from the Tivo OPs manager. But I still believe my method is completely legal


I'll be surprised if you get a response.

Even if it is legal, why would TivoOpsMgr want to encourage you selling additional lifetime subscriptions Tivo clearly doesn't want to sell?

I'm sure he doesn't want to see "approved by TivoOpsMgr" in some subsequent auction, especially since you have been so evasive about your method.

I'll give you points for ending the auction though. :up:


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## Sirshagg (Dec 27, 2001)

jfh3 said:


> I'll be surprised if you get a response.
> 
> Even if it is legal, why would TivoOpsMgr want to encourage you selling additional lifetime subscriptions Tivo clearly doesn't want to sell?
> 
> ...


Sigh!

While I don't really want to be defending this person (since they could easily be a scammer as well as anything else) I would like to point out:

1. He came to this forum because someone here brought him.
2. If he has found a loophole and can legitimately get the lifetime service then sharing the method on this forum would surely mean nobody would buy the auction since they could do it themselves for free. I'm sure you would not do this either.

It's certainly commendable that he ended the auction, and sounds like he may have revealed his method to TivoOpsMgr to see if it's really as legit as he thinks. I would imagine that if it is legit the loophole will be quickly closed (if possible).


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## MasterOfPuppets (Jul 12, 2005)

I've pointed it out before, and I'll point it out again...
I hate it when fanboys just attack someone without any proof at all that he's doing something wrong...does sucking up to Tivo Corp make you feel better about yourself???
Maybe as...ummm...well...someone pointed out, he had bought up S1's and is now grandfathering them...
Plus as Sirshagg pointed out, he came to this forum because another TCF'er pointed out that his auctions were being discussed here...and he has at least attempted to contact TivoOpsMgr, he's got 100% positive feedback on ebay, he's offering a money back guarentee...doesn't exactly look like he's hiding and trying to screw you out of your money...maybe you should get of your soapbox...
If he's exploiting a loophole...maybe you should go look for it on ebay...or that other fforum with the (arguably) slightly more hoity-toity members...


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Sirshagg said:


> Sigh!
> 
> While I don't really want to be defending this person (since they could easily be a scammer as well as anything else) I would like to point out:
> 
> ...


I don't care if he found a legal loophole. If he did, I don't have problem with him using that knowledge on eBay. As for "nobody buying the auction", that makes a very large assumption - that a potential eBay buyer would look here first. 

Would *I* post a loophole here? Probably not, but then (a) if I thought I found one, I would've already PMed one of the Tivo employees here so they could take the appropriate action and (b) I wouldn't be trying to exploit it on eBay.

However, if he is/was abusing an existing Tivo policy, I'm all for Tivo closing the "loophole", since all that does is harm Tivo and Tivo supporters in the long run.
Tivo has shown that it takes good care of its' customers and given them the benefit of the doubt - I don't want to see that change.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

MasterOfPuppets said:


> I hate it when fanboys just attack someone without any proof at all that he's doing something wrong....


1) I don't see anyone attacking him.

2) It's hard to know if he's doing something wrong, since we don't don't know what he was trying to do and he doesn't want to tell us ... 

Whatever it was, it's sure seems to be exploiting an existing Tivo policy to obtain lifetime service in a manner that Tivo clearly didn't intend. If it's legal, using it for your own box would be one thing. Trying to make a business out of it is something different.

(I bought lifetime gift cards for me a couple friends a few months back at Best Buy after they were supposedly pulled from sale with the intent activating a Series 3 box or two, so I'm not opposed to using "loopholes". But I also didn't buy up every one in the store either.)


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

lessd said:


> What the heck would he pay $450 to TiVo for that he is selling for $499 for a quick $50. His customer has the TiVo so he not buying a TiVo, Lifetime is still $299 if you can get it so who at TiVo is he paying the extra $150 to, an inside person at TiVo ?
> 
> I still think it worth 100 of us putting in $5 to see what he is up to.
> 
> 8:04 Pm He just took the posting down I guess we won


How and what did "we" win? No one seems to know what juicesxp is doing or how he does it.

He sent me a reply to my eBay question at 2:24 p.m (PDT). He posted forthrightly on this Forum at 2:07 p.m. and removed his eBay listing at 4:11 p.m. until the issue is resolved. He has offered to become an authorized retailer.

Juicexp currently has four eBay listings. One is for an "AMAZING 282HR TiVo SERIES 2 DT DUAL TUNER + LIFETIME!!!" which is up for bid (currently $611) and closes in a couple of hours. The other three are "Buy It Now" at varying prices (for 80 and 282 hours), provide the "Best Offer" feature, and close in a few days.

Until more is known why pass judgement on him?

TiVo gets nothing except the original $299 from gift card sales. The latest TiVo Gift Card to be sold on eBay closed today at 6:08 p.m. PDT for $645. There are currently two other Tivo Gift cards listed for over $500 with days to go until they close.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

TiVo Troll said:


> Juicexp currently has four eBay listings.


Sometimes the eBay buyers amaze me. Someone paid $880 instead of $850 for exactly the same item from the same seller. Both auctions are still active. Also, with so many units available, I would have used best offer instead of buy-it-now.


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## ebf (Mar 21, 2005)

I wonder if he didn't buy a bunch of 40 hr units in April and put Lifetime on them. He could have planed to sell those once LT was no longer offered. Luckily, the S2DT boxes came out before the 30 day transfer window closed. He could have bought a bunch of those, the ones he is now selling with upgraded harddrives, and transfered the 40 hr Lifetime service(s) over to them. That does not answer the question of his original auctions offering to put Lifetime on someone else's box...


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

Here's a kick in the head! 

Dieharddukefan has been a significant eBay player for TiVo Lifetime Gift Cards recently. However he actually only won one card within the past month. Last Saturday @ 15:58:02 PDT he scarfed up a card for $560, an unusually low current price. Then this past Tuesday he put a different but very similiar card up in a one week bid-style listing which opened at $.99 and is now at $510. At the same time DHDF is the current high bidder on another card now @$535 which closes this Sunday @ 6:30:00 p.m. PDT

Go figure?


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Buy low. Sell high. However, eBay and PayPal take a big chunk out of the sale.


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## funtoupgrade (Mar 15, 2005)

ebf said:


> I wonder if he didn't buy a bunch of 40 hr units in April and put Lifetime on them. He could have planed to sell those once LT was no longer offered. Luckily, the S2DT boxes came out before the 30 day transfer window closed. He could have bought a bunch of those, the ones he is now selling with upgraded harddrives, and transfered the 40 hr Lifetime service(s) over to them. That does not answer the question of his original auctions offering to put Lifetime on someone else's box...


I put a handful of lifetime subs on accumulated series 2 units during the last two days lifetimes were available. During that process I asked the CSR if TiVo was doing a rousing business in lifetime subs and she indicated that was true. She said one customer had activated 30 lifetime subs at one time the previous day.


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## btl-a4 (Dec 28, 2005)

TiVo Troll said:


> Here's a kick in the head!
> 
> Dieharddukefan has been a significant eBay player for TiVo Lifetime Gift Cards recently. However he actually only won one card within the past month. Last Saturday @ 15:58:02 PDT he scarfed up a card for $560, an unusually low current price. Then this past Tuesday he put a different but very similiar card up in a one week bid-style listing which opened at $.99 and is now at $510. At the same time DHDF is the current high bidder on another card now @$535 which closes this Sunday @ 6:30:00 p.m. PDT
> 
> Go figure?


I sold DHDF a card last month. (don't have anymore don't pm me). I looked back at his history and it is nuts. Like 8 boxes most with Lifetime and 6 or 7 cards. This person is on a Tivo tear. I can't figure out why someone would need that many tivo's. Maybe one for every channel he receives.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

funtoupgrade said:


> She said one customer had activated 30 lifetime subs at one time the previous day.


Could it be weaknees? The only 540 units they're selling now include lifetime.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

btl-a4 said:


> Maybe one for every channel he receives.


I have one TiVo per two channels.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

TiVo Troll said:


> How and what did "we" win? No one seems to know what juicesxp is doing or how he does it.
> 
> Until more is known why pass judgement on him?


Buy WON I meant this group seemed to want to take his listing off E-Bay unless he told us what he was up to, if it was a legitimate way to put lifetime on any TiVo for $499 then he and his potential customers lost. I personally was not passing any judgement on him just because I did not know how he could do what he said he could do.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

btl-a4 said:


> I sold DHDF a card last month. (don't have anymore don't pm me). I looked back at his history and it is nuts. Like 8 boxes most with Lifetime and 6 or 7 cards. This person is on a Tivo tear. I can't figure out why someone would need that many tivo's. Maybe one for every channel he receives.


"Gordon Gekko: The point is ladies and gentlemen that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of it's forms - greed for life, for money, knowledge - has marked the upward surge of mankind and greed - you mark my words - will not only save Teldar Paper but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA. Thank you." (from _Wall Street_ - 1987)

Both dieharddukefan and yabbadabbadooo have been recent active bidders for TiVo Lifetime Gift Cards on eBay. Now, wouldn't ya' know it, both have cards listed for sale for "Buy It Now" prices of $750 with "Best Offer" options. DHDF's new listing appears to be for the the same card he won on June 16 for $560. His earlier listing is holding at $520 with three days to go.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

TiVo Troll said:


> Both dieharddukefan and yabbadabbadooo have been recent active bidders for TiVo Lifetime Gift Cards on eBay. Now, wouldn't ya' know it, both have cards listed for sale for "Buy It Now" prices of $750 with "Best Offer" options. DHDF's new listing appears to be for the the same card he won on June 16 for $560. His earlier listing is holding at $520 with three days to go.


So let me get this straight: These guys are buying a product and then trying to resell it in the exact same market that not long before they were the highest bidder?

Brilliant.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

ChuckyBox said:


> So let me get this straight: These guys are buying a product and then trying to resell it in the exact same market that not long before they were the highest bidder?
> 
> Brilliant.


I do that with stocks all the time, sometimes I win sometimes I don't, I just hope to win more than I lose


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## funtoupgrade (Mar 15, 2005)

ChuckyBox said:


> So let me get this straight: These guys are buying a product and then trying to resell it in the exact same market that not long before they were the highest bidder?
> 
> Brilliant.


This is exactly how many of the regular eBay participants do business. Nothing particularly brilliant here at all. Go to a swap meet and the exact same thing happens. The "brilliant" sellers get there early and go around snapping up stuff that is being sold too cheap and lo and behold it is in their booth within minutes with a new higher price tag.


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## funtoupgrade (Mar 15, 2005)

TiVo Troll said:


> How and what did "we" win? No one seems to know what juicesxp is doing or how he does it.


His latest listings admit he bought a bunch of grandfathered units. So far he is sticking to new DT's only as before.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

lessd said:


> I do that with stocks all the time, sometimes I win sometimes I don't, I just hope to win more than I lose


I hope you do it with stocks that are a little more liquid than TiVo lifetime gift cards, and at a commission rate somewhat lower than ebay's, or you are pretty much guaranteed to lose.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

funtoupgrade said:


> His latest listings admit he bought a bunch of grandfathered units.


I find that very hard to believe, since he's selling them in large quantities. He put up another 14 units for sale today.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

ChuckyBox said:


> I hope you do it with stocks that are a little more liquid than TiVo lifetime gift cards, and at a commission rate somewhat lower than ebay's, or you are pretty much guaranteed to lose.


I agree I would not try to make a business out TiVo lifetime cards on E-Bay unless I was lucky enough to have gotten them at $299, then I would wait until Series 3 came out and sell them at that time. E-Bay + PayPal takes about 6% of your gross.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

lessd said:


> I agree I would not try to make a business out TiVo lifetime cards on E-Bay unless I was lucky enough to have gotten them at $299, then I would wait until Series 3 came out and sell them at that time. E-Bay + PayPal takes about 6% of your gross.


Yeah, the way these jokers (dieharddukefan & yabbadabbadooo) are doing it, they are artificially raising the selling price of a TiVo Lifetime Gift Card in a fairly small market, probably by $100. It's a two-edged sword which may end up not working in their favor.

Right now there are five cards listed with two closing today. DHDF is a bidder on both listings which close today and two of the other listings are from him as the seller.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Based on dieharddukefan's last two transactions, he bought one for $570 and sold one for $615, which means $45 gross. After about $22.56 eBay fees, $18.14 PayPal fee, and $4.05 shipping, he made *25 CENTS*.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

c3 said:


> Based on dieharddukefan's last two transactions, he bought one for $570 and sold one for $615, which means $45 gross. After about $22.56 eBay fees, $18.14 PayPal fee, and $4.05 shipping, he made *25 CENTS*.


LOL!

If your calculations don't take into account the shipping fees he paid for the first one, then he lost money.

Seems to me that eBay has shown that lifetime would easily sell for $499 - $599. A little free market research for Tivo should they ever decide to bring back lifetime (which I doubt).

But it does validate their contention that $299 was way too good a deal.


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## dan325it (Jan 5, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> LOL!
> 
> If your calculations don't take into account the shipping fees he paid for the first one, then he lost money.
> 
> ...


All ebay has shown is that when something becomes rare, the price goes up.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

dan325it said:


> All ebay has shown is that when something becomes rare, the price goes up.


Someone should patent that.


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## PAP (Oct 6, 1999)

I guess I'm confused - how does owning a grandfathered unit allow you to have lifetime on a S3?

I have 3 lifetime subsriptions on DirectTivo units - does this mean when I finally dump DTV and buy series 3 that I can transfer to lifetime on it? If so that would be great news and I'll probably buy more than 1!


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Grandfathered means before Jan xx, 2000. DirecTiVo was not available at that time.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

xx=21 



> Grandfather transfer: The one-time "Grandfather transfer" (for people who purchased Product Lifetime on or before January 21, 2000 [as in, more than six years ago], and who have not already used their one-time transfer) is still allowed and will also be honored for future hardware releases from TiVo, such as the Series3. If you have any trouble when you call, please mention KDB code 09-07-04 to the agent.


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