# Add Amazon Prime



## MikeSp

There must be some way in an update to the Tivo to allow real time streaming of Amazon Prime content without permitting the programs to be recorded since Prime programming cannot be recorded.

I prefer fewer set top boxes for streaming and my new Roku2 XS does not produce an audio feed in the HDMI when connected to my preamp-processor for Home Theater use although it works when connected to my TV -- would rather use my Tivos.

MikeSp


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## WhiskeyTango

I suspect that once that they enact the update that enables streaming between Tivos that there may be an add-on to enable Prime streaming. I think they are trying to get their own streams in order before allowing that of 3rd parties. Just my opinion though.


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## aadam101

WhiskeyTango said:


> I suspect that once that they enact the update that enables streaming between Tivos that there may be an add-on to enable Prime streaming. I think they are trying to get their own streams in order before allowing that of 3rd parties. Just my opinion though.


Why would you think that? They already allow Netflix and Youtube streaming.


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## smbaker

I don't see these things as related at all. Tivo could enabled Prime regardless of whether or not Premiere-to-Premiere streaming works. 

I suspect it's more a matter of priority. Tivo's focus is now on building DVRs for cablecos. This new "customer" doesn't give a hoot about Amazon or Netflix. In fact, they'd probably like to see lame outdated plugins for these services.


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## steve771

smbaker said:


> I don't see these things as related at all. Tivo could enabled Prime regardless of whether or not Premiere-to-Premiere streaming works.
> 
> I suspect it's more a matter of priority. Tivo's focus is now on building DVRs for cablecos. This new "customer" doesn't give a hoot about Amazon or Netflix. In fact, they'd probably like to see lame outdated plugins for these services.


Agree. But we can still hold out hope!


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## JosephB

They have a finite number of engineers, and they have just released a major under the hood rewrite of the code. Perhaps now they can focus on the extras and 'visible' updates. They are still working on the OTT stuff, this latest update enables Hulu search in the main search for example


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## aadam101

JosephB said:


> They have a finite number of engineers,


That's not our problem. EVERY other device that offers Amazon Instant Video offers Amazon Prime video also. Most of those devices don't come with a subscription cost. Tivo is CHARGING you for the privilege of using the Amazon app. It should be BETTER than every other app out there.


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## Emacee

Right, Aadam! It's not our problem. Tivo has gotten in the habit of NOT doing it right the first time. Then, often they leave it alone. At least Microsoft gets things right the third time (and without making excuses). 

If I go into a restaurant and the service is terrible, I don't care if somebody called in sick that day. And if Tivo doesn't have enough code crunchers to the job, it's most likely because some bean-counter decided they could save a few bucks with fewer software writers. After all, they are told in B-school that employees are a "cost center." No, the people who make and design products are a profit center. Dissatisfied customers are a cost center. And Tivo keeps making those.


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## shwru980r

I think Tivo is only going to work on projects that have a business case that suggests significant subscription growth. Tivo was one of the first devices to include Netflix streaming and then they proceeded to lose millions of subscriptions. Why should Tivo add Amazon Prime streaming? The one box concept hasn't given Tivo a competitive edge.


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## Chris Gerhard

I haven't seen anything that makes me sure Amazon Prime Instant Video is possible with a TiVo but I have seen a lot of people request it and that makes me believe if it was easy and inexpensive to add, it would happen. At this point, I would just accept it won't happen with the current TiVo boxes and find another way. I like Amazon Prime streaming pretty well and use Google TV but I see Google TV owners complaining that it isn't a pretty app, you must access it just as you would with a PC.


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## JosephB

I think it's possible, obviously they do it with Netflix and Hulu.

There's more moving parts to this than TiVo. Amazon has to be on board as well. I'm sure Amazon is probably not the hold up, but it's not something that is necessarily simple to just flip a switch and turn on. 

And in terms of having limited engineering resources, every company has limited resources and they have to make a business decision to focus those resources where they think it will make them the most money and make the most number of customers happy.

It seems that right now they're working on getting the core DVR stuff more stable and continuing the HDUI. That impacts 100% of their Series 4 customers, retail and cable. Amazon and Netflix affects only their retail customers. I'm not saying it's the best tradeoff (I'm a retail customer, not cable) but it's one that they've made. It also doesn't mean that at some point they'll get Amazon Prime or work on improving the Netflix UI or any of the other ancillary service requests that have been made.


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## atmuscarella

Doesn't look good for TiVo adding Amazon Prime Streaming any time soon. David Zatz covers it in his blog to some extent:

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-01/from-ces-whats-next-for-tivo/​
I also think it would be wise for TiVo to add this ability and I am not a Amazon Prime member. They also should get Vudu on board and again I will likely never rent/purchase a Vudu video.


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## JosephB

Well, according to @TivoDesign on Twitter (Margret, their VP of Design) the apps are actually designed by the providers (Hulu, Netflix, and Amazon) themselves. Now, IMO this isn't entirely an excuse because Tivo is ultimately responsible for the experience of their customers, if Amazon is responsible for the app and you're paying Amazon, they are partially responsible for this mess too (and maybe moreso than TiVo)


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## JosephB

According to @TiVo on twitter (not margret, but their official account) they plan to have "news" about free Prime streaming soon.


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## DonGateley

aadam101 said:


> Why would you think that? They already allow Netflix and Youtube streaming.


This raises an interesting question. There are apparently a plethora of Amazon Prime streaming devices out there but are there any that stream both Netflix and Amazon Prime? I'm wondering if the Tivo inclusion of Netflix is what excludes Amazon Prime because of agreements with Netflix.

If that's the case we will never see it despite all the weasel words from Amazon and Tivo.


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## Dan203

There is nothing technical stopping them from adding Prime streaming to the Premiere platform. So the delay has to be business related.

Dan


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## Marc

DonGateley said:


> This raises an interesting question. There are apparently a plethora of Amazon Prime streaming devices out there but are there any that stream both Netflix and Amazon Prime? I'm wondering if the Tivo inclusion of Netflix is what excludes Amazon Prime because of agreements with Netflix.


There are plenty of devices that can do both. My Sony TV and my Xbox 360 have support for both.


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## magnus

Marc said:


> There are plenty of devices that can do both. My Sony TV and my Xbox 360 have support for both.


Yep my Sony TV has both. The PS3 has both.


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## Emacee

Roku has Netflix, Amazon and Amazon Prime and Hulu Plus (among others). I don't see what the problem is allowing Prime on Tivo. Whether this is Tivo or Amazon's doing, they should enable Prime.


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## jeffm1911

+1 on adding Amazon Prime streaming videos. I have Amazon Prime and it would get a lot of use on my Tivo if it was added.


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## Chris Gerhard

Dan203 said:


> There is nothing technical stopping them from adding Prime streaming to the Premiere platform. So the delay has to be business related.
> 
> Dan


How do we know that? You are sure TiVo meets the DRM requirements according to Amazon content contracts? First generation Google TV devices can stream Amazon Prime TV shows in HD and SD and Amazon Prime Movies in SD but not HD, the reason given is DRM concerns. The same boxes can stream any Amazon PPV Instant Video, both SD and HD. The explanation I have seen given for first gen Google TV and other hardware platforms is the hardware isn't capable of meeting the requirements.

I have not seen any explanation given for lack of Prime on TiVo but my guess is it can't happen with TiVo because of DRM. The second generation Google TV Boxes meet the DRM concerns and get a native app and access to everything. I don't expect TiVo or first gen Google TV to ever get this right. I don't know the difference between DRM requirements for Prime and just PPV Instant Video but it is clear there is a significant difference as it stands now.

Next generation TiVo might get Amazon Prime, that wouldn't surprise me and it is a really nice service in my opinion. With existing TiVo models, I am surprised people are still whining about this, it was clear it was a dead issue a year and a half ago to me, I just got something else and never looked back.


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## SnakeVargas

+1 for amazon prime. This is a feature i could use.

I can't see how DRM could be an issue. The Premiere has to be the most locked down computer I've ever owned. What hardware component do you believe it is lacking? Some hardware encryption or key management? 

Does Google TV offer DVR capability? PPV/OnDemand? My suspicion would be that the business model for cable television and the business model for streaming have some incompatibility. Maybe the problem is that PPV competes with streaming.


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## smc03

+1


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## chipfiev

+1 If it can be done on the XBOX360, PS3 and Wii, it can be done on the TiVo.


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## jrtroo

Nobody said it couldn't be done technically. 

What is being said is that Tivo is a DVR and there must be other business related reasons why Amazon has not created this app yet.


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## philhu

Having worked in the tivo platform years ago, I would think that the awkwardness of the internal developer SDK for tivo apps and the slowness of the processors that TIVO has always used, is probably a major concern for them.

Many apps ported to Tivo (Netflix is one), are slow and cumbersome and outdated, since the vendor pretty much abandons development after first release. If Tivo tries to take on an app development, it ends up in the same slow/never worked on queue ans the Tivo system does

Also, Amazon on Tivo would need some way for Tivo to make $$$ for allowing it.

Fine with me, I use tivo as a dvr and a Roku for everything else


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## abqdan

Tivo has a deeper problem than this. The apps are built by other companies using their prorprietary APIs. But the Tivo boxes do not run those apps well, if at all. Both the Netflix and HuluPlus apps on Tivo perform terribly. I have These options at home for Netflix and HuluPlus: PC, Sony TV, Roku, WD HDTV. All of these boxes happily handle the highest resolutions available from these two services, without errors. I have a fast wired network and an ISP connection at 24Mbps, so I would expect smooth streaming apps. However, when I turn to the Tivo box, the HuluPlus app frequently throws up errors, and the Netflix display is frequently dropped back to an un-watchable pixellated display.

Consider the profit models for Roku and WD HDTV. Both provide highly effective streaming systems for a few dollars - each less than $100. The Tivo is about the same price, allowing for the hard drive setup. But the Roku and WD HDTV both rely on volume sales to make a profit, where Tivo considers the device a loss-leader, and instead rely on very high subscriptions to make their money.

Frankly, I believe that in this market, Tivo has it upside down. They could probably make more money by adjusting either their life-time service cost down, or the equipment cost up. When people are willing to spend $300 on a phone, they are certainly willing to spend that on an excellent DVR and streaming device.

What is killing Tivo is that it doesn't pay attention to what its customers want, and it doesn't price its products to the current market.


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## ldconfig

plus one


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## SnakeVargas

If the Tivo Mini excludes Netflix Streaming as speculated in the Zatz blog, does that lend credence to the belief that lack of Amazon Streaming is a business-related decision instead of a technology limitation?


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## philhu

SnakeVargas said:


> If the Tivo Mini excludes Netflix Streaming as speculated in the Zatz blog, does that lend credence to the belief that lack of Amazon Streaming is a business-related decision instead of a technology limitation?


Tivo's attitude has always been 'Whats in it for us?'

They look for immediate satisfaction. Never look long term. This attitude has creeped into their software. The idea that the sdgui and hdgui use DIFFERENT metadata items for season/episode of a show (SD-Episodenum, HD-programID) and neither 'talks' together, is current latest proof of this attitude.

If Amazon cannot prove INSTANT revenue for Tivo, it isn't going anywhere.
Tivo WAS the leader, but has watch a few others fly right by them, now they are blaming revenue streams for not fixing things or looking long term. I am really getting worried that the reason Tivo is not looking long term is that they do not expect to be around long term, so why bother.


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## mskellyo

Allow Amazon video purchased on mobile device to download to TiVo.


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