# Test Off-Air Signal - antenna tuner 1 OK, antenna tuner 2 nothing



## Sc0rp10n (Jun 14, 2003)

Hi. I have everything setup and when I go to test my Off-Air Signal strength, I'm able to pick up all channels that are broadcast in my area ~ 90%. But I'm only getting a signal on the first tuner - nothing on the second tuner. Is this the way it's supposed to be or am I doing something wrong? There was only 1 hookup in the back of the HR10-250...


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## Sc0rp10n (Jun 14, 2003)

Please ignore this thread - it can be closed. I went back into it and both appear live now. Weird.


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## f300v10 (Dec 6, 2004)

I have seen that issue a few times before. Simply exiting the strength test and returning seems to fix it most of the time.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

There was also a problem like this in the previous "e" software release that should have been fixed in the latest "f" software release. You can check your software version under "Messages & Setup" -> "System Information".


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## Ed_Hunt (Jan 2, 2004)

I had this problem to a lesser degree, one tuner had half the signal of the other. D*TV swapped out the box for a new one, said the tuner was bad. This fixed the problem.


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## RMSko (Sep 4, 2001)

Ed_Hunt said:


> I had this problem to a lesser degree, one tuner had half the signal of the other. D*TV swapped out the box for a new one, said the tuner was bad. This fixed the problem.


I have a similar problem, although not as severe. With my TiVo, with one station (CBS - 56), one of the OTA tuners registers an 88 and the other one registers a 79. This significant discrepancy only happens with this one channel. With ALL the other channels, although there is a difference in signal strength between the two tuners, the difference it is only about 1-2, which I woudl expect is in "the margin of error." Anyone have any thoughts?


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## Wayne D Johnson (Mar 23, 2005)

Do-over fixed mine (happened once recently). I also had the bad tuner problem that I fixed myself (bad cable). If both tuners are working (down arrow), then no problem.


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## RMSko (Sep 4, 2001)

Wayne D Johnson said:


> Do-over fixed mine (happened once recently). I also had the bad tuner problem that I fixed myself (bad cable). If both tuners are working (down arrow), then no problem.


I'm talking about the OTA tuner so it is only one coax cable that is used for both internal OTA tuners. As a result, it's not the cable. I'm just at a loss as to how I could get the results I am getting.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

RMSko said:


> I'm talking about the OTA tuner so it is only one coax cable that is used for both internal OTA tuners. As a result, it's not the cable. I'm just at a loss as to how I could get the results I am getting.


My guess is that the different readings are due to slight differences in how each OTA tuner handles multipath. Remember that the signal reading is not really "strength", it's more an indicator of signal "quality" as determined by parameters like bit error rates. In my case, I have one channel that displays very different readings on each tuner (90/72), and it's the one transmitter that's farther away and has significant multipath (as viewed by the equivalent analog channel on an analog TV tuner). All of my other OTA channels produce equivalent readings on both tuners.

If the "poorer" readings on the 2nd tuner are causing you reception problems -- since you can't control which tuner the DVR uses for recording -- you're only option is to replace the DVR. Other folks who've done that have reported that it usually solves the problem.


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## Wayne D Johnson (Mar 23, 2005)

RMSko said:


> I'm talking about the OTA tuner so it is only one coax cable that is used for both internal OTA tuners. As a result, it's not the cable. I'm just at a loss as to how I could get the results I am getting.


Its the two internal cables that are the problem, not the external coax.


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## RMSko (Sep 4, 2001)

litzdog911 said:


> If the "poorer" readings on the 2nd tuner are causing you reception problems -- since you can't control which tuner the DVR uses for recording -- you're only option is to replace the DVR. Other folks who've done that have reported that it usually solves the problem.


That's what I thought and D* is sending me a replacement receiver. Hopefully I won't have similar problems with the new receiver.

Do you think an attenuator could help?


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

RMSko said:


> That's what I thought and D* is sending me a replacement receiver. Hopefully I won't have similar problems with the new receiver.
> 
> Do you think an attenuator could help?


It's worth a try. Radio Shack has a nice adjustable attenuator that costs less than $10.

Let us know what you find.


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## RMSko (Sep 4, 2001)

Well I received a new reciever from D*, but as it ends up I'm going to send it back without even opening the box as I don't need it. Before I tried the new TiVo, I "jiggled" the coax in the back of the HD TiVo for the OTA input and it changed the results signifcantly! Apparently, at least for me, the angle of the coax into the OTA input on the back of the TiVo afftects the signal strength (hopefully that makes sense).


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

RMSko said:


> Well I received a new reciever from D*, but as it ends up I'm going to send it back without even opening the box as I don't need it. Before I tried the new TiVo, I "jiggled" the coax in the back of the HD TiVo for the OTA input and it changed the results signifcantly! Apparently, at least for me, the angle of the coax into the OTA input on the back of the TiVo afftects the signal strength (hopefully that makes sense).


Really? I sure can't explain why that would make a difference. The single OTA input is split inside the HR10-250 to feed each OTA tuner module, so it's hard to see why jiggling the single input cable would make a difference. But it's one more tip to add to our bag of suggestions.


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## RMSko (Sep 4, 2001)

litzdog911 said:


> Really? I sure can't explain why that would make a difference. The single OTA input is split inside the HR10-250 to feed each OTA tuner module, so it's hard to see why jiggling the single input cable would make a difference. But it's one more tip to add to our bag of suggestions.


It seemed crazy to me as well, but when I angled the coax cable down the two internal OTA tuners had identical readings and when I angled it up they were off by about 10. I repeated the test a few times and each time it had the same results. I can't explain it though.


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## oldguy (Feb 10, 2005)

litzdog911 said:


> My guess is that the different readings are due to slight differences in how each OTA tuner handles multipath. Remember that the signal reading is not really "strength", it's more an indicator of signal "quality" as determined by parameters like bit error rates. In my case, I have one channel that displays very different readings on each tuner (90/72), and it's the one transmitter that's farther away and has significant multipath (as viewed by the equivalent analog channel on an analog TV tuner). All of my other OTA channels produce equivalent readings on both tuners.
> 
> If the "poorer" readings on the 2nd tuner are causing you reception problems -- since you can't control which tuner the DVR uses for recording -- you're only option is to replace the DVR. Other folks who've done that have reported that it usually solves the problem.


It seems like OTA DTV signals are like Ohio weather: if you don't like it, wait a minute.

This thread is interesting because of the similarities in the phenomena of differing signal strengths on two tuners connected to the same antenna, as well as different channels regestering different strengths on the same tuners.

I notice on my HR10-250 that when this happens it is 1) most always on the same frequency and always on tuner number two; and 2) usually when more locals are carrying high actions sports in widescreen HiDef.

I also notice that I usually get much pixillating on one station at the same time of day during a HD broadcast, whether it be a cloudy day or bright sunshine. (Happens the most during a Saturday football game I am VERY interested in.

This latter phenomena I attribute to the orientation of the local stations dish that provides the network link. As the sun strikes the dish at certain times of the day, thd interference is greater. I used to notice this with cable (the local provider has a downlink for the programs.

The first problem with differing signals on 2 internal tuners connected to the same cables I am thinking is simply that the hr10-250 hardware and software are just too slow to keep up with the demands at certain times (we all know the hr-10-250 is slow as molasses).

I notice I haved the problem again usually on he weekends when there are more local high action HD programs sports programs taking place.

Yesterday, my ABC channel was showing at 10 point difference in Ant 1 and Ant 2 with 2 being the weakest (as usual). This morning it is back to normal (hardly any HD programs on).

I am beginning to think we hr10-250 owners would benefit from a software upgrade in more ways than one.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

anyone ever replace an OTA tuner?  I think mine is going bad. I have other problems but i'll stick to my OTA ones here. 

Checked T60 and Hdtivo. All OTA and satellite were perfect. but recently tuner 1 was out. then came back

2 hours later, decided to check the signals. OTA had no signal on tuner 1 but tuner 2 was ok. I went to live tv, tuned in a few channels manually, then tuner 1 came back. 

since OTA is internally split tuner and i can't 'swap cables', does this mean it's that tuner? And is that easily replaceable?  Diplexor has been mentioned as a problem but would that selectively kill only 1 tuner OTA?


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

I've heard of problems with the split into the tuners, 
people open up the boxes and hardwire a coax feed to each individual tuner.


phox


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

i guess i'll have to search for that....from what i recall inside there's some sort of adapter right inside the box that changes the rg6 to an rca type plug...


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## kpollari (Jan 2, 2002)

I fixed my tuner problems this weekend. I had one tuner that would not receive a station on low VHF (channel 2). But, it came in fine on the other tuner. Went to radio shack and bought the following:

1' video coax cable (part # 1501590)
"F" to phono plug adapter (part # 2780252)

screwed them together and replaced one cable inside of TiVo. The problem went away. I don't know if the problem was the cable or a bad connection, but the channel now works on both tuners.

Kermit


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

kpollari said:


> I had one tuner that would not receive a station on low VHF (channel 2). But, it came in fine on the other tuner.


That is the most important channel to recieve by the way, that and 34.  
I work for channel 2 here in SLC, our digital is on 34.

For the record, VHF channel 2 is the hardest channel to recieve due to it's frequency.

phox


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

kpollari said:


> I fixed my tuner problems this weekend. I had one tuner that would not receive a station on low VHF (channel 2). But, it came in fine on the other tuner. Went to radio shack and bought the following:
> 
> 1' video coax cable (part # 1501590)
> "F" to phono plug adapter (part # 2780252)
> ...


was your problem all the time or intermittant? my problem isn't all the time so i'm frustrated.


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