# Best Buy Leaks the Next TiVos: TiVo Premiere HD and TiVo Premiere XL HD



## pigvig (Sep 3, 2001)

Hope this is the right place for this.

Ahead of a March 2 event and TiVo HDs suddenly going extinct, two listings for a TiVo Premiere HD and Premiere XL HD have popped up in Best Buy's system.

http://gizmodo.com/5480269/best-buy...eed&utm_campaign=Feed:+gizmodo/full+(Gizmodo)


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## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

Nicely done - was on my way here to post after seeing that 

Hope the announcement has some great new content integration (Vudu, other 1080p?) at the very least. New beefier CPU and way faster UI too please.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

Search is your friend guys...


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

The big one for $499 says up to 150hrs of HD recording sounds like it will have a 500gb hard drive in it.

Yeah I am hoping for a beefer CPU, DLNA support, DTS support, 1080p support as well as a USB interface for hard drives/flash drives to support the use of your digital camera playback of files without having to go through your computer first.

The new UI maybe coming to our current TiVo's as new hardware isn't the only thing they are anouncing.

TGC

P.S. I won't run out and buy either of the units though unless their are some seriously upgraded hardware. More than just a bigger hard drive, & maybe even more than just a beefer CPU. There will have to be more than just that to get me to buy one.


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## cjv2 (Dec 16, 2009)

I see 1080p in the listing...


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Do you guys think there is any chance these puppies will have Gigabit Ethernet with substantially faster MRV speeds? That would definitely be pretty enticing in my eyes.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

gweempose said:


> Do you guys think there is any chance these puppies will have Gigabit Ethernet with substantially faster MRV speeds? That would definitely be pretty enticing in my eyes.


Simply adding gigabit ethernet would do nothing to improve performance. Recall that transfer throughput is not limited by the ethernet interface, but rather by the CPU.

Transfers between TiVos are typically 16-24Mbps depending on what the box is doing at the time, due to limited CPU performance. If equipped with a sufficiently powerful CPU, the existing 100Mbps ethernet interface could support over 85Mbps.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

bkdtv said:


> If equipped with a sufficiently powerful CPU, the existing 100Mbps ethernet interface could support over 85Mbps.


Based on this fact, isn't it safe to assume that MRV on the newer boxes would have to be faster? Surely, any chip they use will be substantially more powerful that what is currently in the Series 3s. Even if they cheap out and go with a budget solution, it will still be several generations newer, and thus quite a bit more powerful. Does this logic make any sense?


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## wublet (Nov 30, 2006)

Presuming a sufficiently fast ISP connection, a faster Ethernet interface would allow for faster download of content files to the drive -- even if the CPU does happen to be maxed out vis-a-vis rendering content files for playback.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

bkdtv said:


> Simply adding gigabit ethernet would do nothing to improve performance. Recall that transfer throughput is not limited by the ethernet interface, but rather by the CPU.
> 
> Transfers between TiVos are typically 16-24Mbps depending on what the box is doing at the time, due to limited CPU performance. If equipped with a sufficiently powerful CPU, the existing 100Mbps ethernet interface could support over 85Mbps.


Thats assuming that your using the ethernet connection only for MRV applications.

Keep in mind that the TiVo also uses the ethernet connection for direct connection to the Internet to download *AND* stream movies. Such as NETFLIX.

With Google soon to be offering 1Gbps Internet access to 5 cities before the end of 2010 *AND* Verizon FiOS which has 100mbps internet access in limited test marketes. Having a Gigabit ethernet connection COULD be a big benefit. Maybe not today. But deffinately in the next units Lifecyle it could.

When I first bought my first TiVo S3, the fastest internet I could get was only 5bmps. Now I am geting 20mpbs. Thats a jump of 4x in the 5 or 6 years. Give the next unit a jump of 4x to 5x in the same time frame and your looking at 100mbps, with Fios offering 50mbps now 100mpbs in some markets 4x to 5x means even up to 1/2gigabit being available in the next 5 to 6 years as well.

TGC


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Netflix doesn't even use 5mbps max, so your point is irrelevant. There's plenty of bandwidth on a 100mbps switched connection to stream HD to 3-4 other Tivos while streaming a Netflix HD movie, but the hardware can't handle it.


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## JeffKusnitz (Apr 9, 2008)

TexasGrillChef said:


> The big one for $499 says up to 150hrs of HD recording sounds like it will have a 500gb hard drive in it.


That should be a 1TB drive, no? My HD with a 1TB drive has room for 157 hours.


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

TexasGrillChef said:


> With Google soon to be offering 1Gbps Internet access to 5 cities before the end of 2010 *AND* Verizon FiOS which has 100mbps internet access in limited test marketes.


I don't think Verizon FiOS has 100Mbps in any test markets, only in some employees' homes.

The only providers offering 100+Mbps speed for home today are Cablevision and Paxio and maybe a few others. Comcast has been talking about it too, but right now it's just talk.

As for Google, I'll believe it when I see it. I think they threw it out there to stir the pot and get data to show the FCC that people want 1Gbps broadband. They have also not announced widespread deployment, just a small number of people.


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## mamosley (Apr 9, 2003)

Raj said:


> I don't think Verizon FiOS has 100Mbps in any test markets, only in some employees' homes.
> 
> The only providers offering 100+Mbps speed for home today are Cablevision and Paxio and maybe a few others. Comcast has been talking about it too, but right now it's just talk.
> 
> As for Google, I'll believe it when I see it. I think they threw it out there to stir the pot and get data to show the FCC that people want 1Gbps broadband. They have also not announced widespread deployment, just a small number of people.


100mbps is commercially available in some areas. I really hope tivo adds moca to really speed up transfers between rooms.


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## turbobozz (Sep 21, 2006)

mamosley said:


> 100mbps is commercially available in some areas. I really hope tivo adds moca to really speed up transfers between rooms.


Moca speeds up transfers how???
100Mbit ethernet is fast enough to transfer HD realtime.
Moca would just mean you wouldn't need an ethernet cable, but then you would need a router than can handle moca... which is fine if you have the Fios router... but otherwise?


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

slowbiscuit said:


> Netflix doesn't even use 5mbps max, so your point is irrelevant. There's plenty of bandwidth on a 100mbps switched connection to stream HD to 3-4 other Tivos while streaming a Netflix HD movie, but the hardware can't handle it.


They don't currently... but Vudu HDX really does better with a 10mbps connection.

The Streaming stuff they are working in the labs requires even faster.. So a real need for 1gb internet will be needed soon.

Even Vudu HDX is on its ways to being upgraded to soon support DTS-HD/TRU-HD. Requiring more bandwidth.

Netflix will be coming out with their own HDX version soon as well. Probably requiring more bandwidth. Who knows 10 years from now.

The desire though is to get full Blu-ray capability WITH all the EXTRAS including BD-Live in a Streaming form over the internet WITHOUT the use of any discs what-so-ever.

So like I said.. it may NOT be needed today. But in the future it will be.

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

JeffKusnitz said:


> That should be a 1TB drive, no? My HD with a 1TB drive has room for 157 hours.


Doh! your right... Hello!

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

Raj said:


> I don't think Verizon FiOS has 100Mbps in any test markets, only in some employees' homes.
> 
> The only providers offering 100+Mbps speed for home today are Cablevision and Paxio and maybe a few others. Comcast has been talking about it too, but right now it's just talk.
> 
> As for Google, I'll believe it when I see it. I think they threw it out there to stir the pot and get data to show the FCC that people want 1Gbps broadband. They have also not announced widespread deployment, just a small number of people.


Small test market area here in North Dallas, Borders the small TWC test market for full 20mbps up & down that I am a part of. Have at least 6 friends with 100mbps Verizon Fios.

TGC


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

mamosley said:


> 100mbps is commercially available in some areas.


For residential connections they haven't really expressed interest in rolling out 100Mbit/s, and have even dismissed Cablevision for doing so and called it a "parlor trick."

I think FiOS may see 100Mbit/s in widespread availability sometime but not very soon. Right now they're concentrating on subscriber uptake and return on their current investment.


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## convergent (Jan 4, 2007)

If all their hoopla is just what is being presented here, then I will give it a big yawn. Solve MRV for TWC and I'll be buying in a second.


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## cjv2 (Dec 16, 2009)

This 1080p business - is that actually of any value with regard to broadcast content? I suppose if the box can upscale, maybe...

My LCD TV can handle 1080p, but I'm not buying Blu-Ray, I don't game, and I haven't heard of anything else that will take advantage of it.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

TexasGrillChef said:


> Thats assuming that your using the ethernet connection only for MRV applications.
> 
> Keep in mind that the TiVo also uses the ethernet connection for direct connection to the Internet to download *AND* stream movies. Such as NETFLIX.


Even if someone were offering a 1080p FULL HD it wouldn't require more than 85 Mbps stream. But nobody's going to be offering anything likek that over the Internet anytime soon. I think the fastest stream you could find would be 10 Mbps...



TexasGrillChef said:


> With Google soon to be offering 1Gbps Internet access to 5 cities before the end of 2010


I wouldn't hold your breath. You will NOT be able to stream 1 Gbps over the internet on a consumer grade network connection in 2010.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Adam1115 said:


> I wouldn't hold your breath. You will NOT be able to stream 1 Gbps over the internet on a consumer grade network connection in 2010.


True, but I think TGC's point was that it would be nice to have Gigabit Ethernet on the device now so that it can take advantage of speeds that may be coming several years down the road.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

gweempose said:


> True, but I think TGC's point was that it would be nice to have Gigabit Ethernet on the device now so that it can take advantage of speeds that may be coming several years down the road.


In several years we should be starting to move away from wired connections.


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## mamosley (Apr 9, 2003)

turbobozz said:


> Moca speeds up transfers how???
> 100Mbit ethernet is fast enough to transfer HD realtime.
> Moca would just mean you wouldn't need an ethernet cable, but then you would need a router than can handle moca... which is fine if you have the Fios router... but otherwise?


You dont need a fios router if both tivos have moca.


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## mamosley (Apr 9, 2003)

Raj said:


> For residential connections they haven't really expressed interest in rolling out 100Mbit/s, and have even dismissed Cablevision for doing so and called it a "parlor trick."
> 
> I think FiOS may see 100Mbit/s in widespread availability sometime but not very soon. Right now they're concentrating on subscriber uptake and return on their current investment.


To be a business customer you just have to pay for the business rates.


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## porges (Feb 28, 2001)

According to the pic at Engadget, those TiVos are classifed as Gamecube Controllers. Error or fake leak? Guess we'll find out on Tuesday.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> In several years we should be starting to move away from wired connections.


Rubbish. Wired will always have a place. It's faster, more secure, and more stable, and it's going to stay that way -- wireless advances, but so does wired.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

cjv2 said:


> This 1080p business - is that actually of any value with regard to broadcast content? I suppose if the box can upscale, maybe...
> 
> My LCD TV can handle 1080p, but I'm not buying Blu-Ray, I don't game, and I haven't heard of anything else that will take advantage of it.


Some PPV movies on DirecTV are 1080P as well as some on-demand DirecTV PPV that can be downloaded from the internet. The quality is comparable to Blu-ray, at least I can not tell the difference on 65" LCD.


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## erikg (Aug 20, 2007)

wmcbrine said:


> Rubbish. Wired will always have a place. It's faster, more secure, and more stable, and it's going to stay that way -- wireless advances, but so does wired.


+1 ! So tired of wireless; well put sir.


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## wublet (Nov 30, 2006)

One good reason for gigabit ether is that the faster the internet download speed, the sooner an ordered on-demand HD movie can start playing. So it enables a much better user experience when ordering HD movies, especially in 1080. This is an area (On Demand) where the cable companies have been investing in back end infrastructure for years, and have a pretty decent user experience but not always a lot of 1080 content, so this is another area where TiVo could leapfrog the cableco experience.

Now, not all customers will be able to take advantage of that speed capability immediately, due to a slower ISP sitting between the TiVo and the TiVo/Amazon/Netflix/etc. servers, but some already can, and in coming years more and more customers will be able to receive that benefit as ISP downlink speeds increase generally.

As far as box manufacturing cost, ether ports are commodity-priced these days, with the silicon and ether/IP software stack built into lots and lots of chips (and they've always been available as pretty cheap cells for custom chips). So you can guesstimate that the gigabit ether parts in the Premiere models don't cost significantly more than the 10baseT or 100baseT parts in previous generation TiVos did.

All in all it makes a lot of sense to me:

1. Customers love TiVo.
2. Cable industry won't give TiVo a big enough share of the box market to thrive. 
3. Cable industry tries to cut TiVo out entirely with SDV. 
4. TiVo retaliates with a better box with a better user experience that also lets customers finally ditch the cableco (who they really really hate).
5. Everybody buys a TiVo Premiere (or non-TiVo equivalent) and gets ISP service (telco, cableco, or pure-play ISP), and dances in the street with joy when they cancel their cableco account. Happy customers, happy ISPs, happy TiVo.
6. Sad lonely impoverished cable industry wishes it had only been smart enough to work with TiVo in the first place...


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

So will they still need "Cable Cards"?


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## bschuler2007 (Feb 25, 2007)

I'll laugh till I pee myself if the new Tivo is nothing more than:

New encryption, so directshow dump no longer works.
New UI update for new boxes and old, so Pytivo no longer works.
Much more advertising and constant reminders to buy online movies and shows. (integrated into search)
Turning off of skip forward that cannot be undone
Better user viewing tracking
Flash apps and ads that are called apps but cannot be turned off.

Overall, based on some of these posts, I think their is gonna be ALOT of upset and disappointed people out there..


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## rocko (Oct 29, 2002)

timstack8969 said:


> So will they still need "Cable Cards"?


The Premiere has a single CableCARD slot so, yes. This follows others like the Moxi which require a single "M" card.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

TexasGrillChef said:


> ...P.S. I won't run out and buy either of the units though unless their are some seriously upgraded hardware. More than just a bigger hard drive, & maybe even more than just a beefer CPU. There will have to be more than just that to get me to buy one.


I was just thinking that I'll buy one and your thinking is exactly what mine was: they better have added some recent future-safe hardware inside. I'm in no mood for a mere slimmer TiVo XL where the sole breakthrough is stripping components to get the price down enough to make Wal-Mart shoppers think about buying one.

If that's the case, I'll buy a used S3 instead.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

bschuler2007 said:


> New encryption, so directshow dump no longer works.
> New UI update for new boxes and old, so Pytivo no longer works.


DirectShow Dump is obsolete, although it should still work. tivodecode has already been updated to support the transport streams that will be available in 14.x, although the old program streams are still available, too, AFAIK. Transport streams are a big win, since the streams don't have to be remuxed, and the transfers are much faster.

pyTivo will still work, AFAIK, and I'll try to get it using transport streams as soon as possible.

I _am_ concerned about whether the video streaming programs (HME/VLC, Streambaby) will continue to work, since video streaming got disabled in Australia. I've heard nothing about it in relation to 14.x for the U.S.


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## bschuler2007 (Feb 25, 2007)

wmcbrine said:


> pyTivo will still work, AFAIK, and I'll try to get it using transport streams as soon as possible.


I am crossing my fingers and toes and wishing on a star.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

convergent said:


> If all their hoopla is just what is being presented here, then I will give it a big yawn. Solve MRV for TWC and I'll be buying in a second.


MRV for TWC is solved... if you want to define MRV as multi-Room Viewing. The way to make it work may not be to your liking.

Now to make MRV work via "Streaming" for TWC. That is what would be a better solution.

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

cjv2 said:


> This 1080p business - is that actually of any value with regard to broadcast content? I suppose if the box can upscale, maybe...
> 
> My LCD TV can handle 1080p, but I'm not buying Blu-Ray, I don't game, and I haven't heard of anything else that will take advantage of it.


Well as of current... No 1080p broadcasts via cable or OTA. It will come sometime in the future. Much speculation on to exactly when though.

While many of you don't rip Blu-rays, or stream HD contect from future sites like Vudu &/or Netflix / Amazon, or play games etc... Their are many who do and having 1080p capability for those people WOULD in fact be beneficial.

Netflix does want to offer 1080p content streaming, They are working on it now. When it will be available is another story.

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

Adam1115 said:


> Even if someone were offering a 1080p FULL HD it wouldn't require more than 85 Mbps stream. But nobody's going to be offering anything likek that over the Internet anytime soon. I think the fastest stream you could find would be 10 Mbps...
> 
> I wouldn't hold your breath. You will NOT be able to stream 1 Gbps over the internet on a consumer grade network connection in 2010.


We will see. I am more optimistic than you are though. Besides that their is a big push for it in the Dallas area. Dallas, Austin/San Antonia, Houston area is known as the second silicon valley. 90% of nano-tech is being developed in our area as well as many other high tech coming soon. There are many "Green" companies here in the area as well developing new tech. Ultra High speed internet is something many of the high tech companies in Dallas are pushing for, & even funding. Why? Because many of our high tech companies have alot of their employees do the "Work at home". Several houses in my area even have T3 lines installed.

Wi-max, 4 g came to many areas much sooner than others thought too. Dallas as 4g and it is working very well.

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

gweempose said:


> True, but I think TGC's point was that it would be nice to have Gigabit Ethernet on the device now so that it can take advantage of speeds that may be coming several years down the road.


Exactly... thank you for that clarity. Average life of a TiVo is about 5 to 6 years. I know I bought my first S3 when it was first released. How long has that been?

Gigabit internet I am sure will be in Dallas sometime in the next 5 or 6 years.

TGC


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

cjv2 said:


> This 1080p business - is that actually of any value with regard to broadcast content? I suppose if the box can upscale, maybe...
> 
> My LCD TV can handle 1080p, but I'm not buying Blu-Ray, I don't game, and I haven't heard of anything else that will take advantage of it.


I actually wonder why HBO, Showtime, and the other movie channels on "cable" dont go with 1080p 24fps. I'm not a videophile but i think that would match the film better? And I dont think the bandwidth would be vastly different than 1080i 60fps. And I'd GUESS that most cable STB's of any recent vintage could handle that- so at least newer systmes could handle it. The rest could just convert it at the headend.

I have no idea if it makes sense that they would go that route at some point.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> In several years we should be starting to move away from wired connections.


I don't think we will ever move entirely away from wired connections. Not until we can figure out how to solve problems for EMF and RF shielding. Simple things like metal buildings work very well to shield normal Wi-Fi signals.

Many places in my home are "Dead" areas to Wifi G and Wifi N. I had to install antenna's in those areas just to get service.

The thing about wireless is there will *always* be a way to "JAM" or something that will block a wireless signal.

TGC


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

mamosley said:


> You dont need a fios router if both tivos have moca.


how do you download guide data and use the other internet features like netflix, amazone, blockbuster and the like on your tivo without the ability to connect that moca to the internet?

So if you can't get the moca connected to the net than you have to put an ethernet port on the back of the tivo anyway and connect that to your lan- and if it's there than why not use that for the IP connection between boxes?

You could allow tivo's to act as a router and one box could take the ethernet connection on one and then share that over moca with the others but that would be pretty abusive to that one box and seems like adding another layer of something that could go wrong and people will claim there is a major flaw

So in the end you need a moca router or some kind of ethernet <> moca bridge- wouldn't you?


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## eaglestvo (Dec 27, 2008)

I wonder if analog channels will work without going gray screen.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

MichaelK said:


> I actually wonder why HBO, Showtime, and the other movie channels on "cable" dont go with 1080p 24fps. I'm not a videophile but i think that would match the film better? And I dont think the bandwidth would be vastly different than 1080i 60fps. And I'd GUESS that most cable STB's of any recent vintage could handle that- so at least newer systmes could handle it. The rest could just convert it at the headend.
> 
> I have no idea if it makes sense that they would go that route at some point.


It's not HBO or the networks that control most of that. It's your local cable co's that have most the control over the quality of the content.

Just look at some shows on NBC and CBS. Their are a few shows that NBC sends to it's local affliates in 1080i, Yet the locals only rebroadcast in 720p. Some do 1080. Some do 720.

Here in Dallas I noticed for a while, a show on CBS OTA was in 1080i, Soon as I switched to the cable feed HD channel. TWC had it at 720p. So for a while I watched the show OTA because it was better than the cables 720p. Now TWC has it coming through at 1080.

Just saying... that even if HBO did broadcast their show/moive in 1080p/24 doesn't mean your local cable co would.

TGC


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## vectorcatch (Nov 21, 2008)

eaglestvo said:


> I wonder if analog channels will work without going gray screen.


I am willing to bet the thing may not even be able to tune analog channels. It would make sense to me if they ripped all the analog tuners out of them.

Analog on cable will probably only be valid for another year or so the way things are going.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

TexasGrillChef said:


> ...
> 
> Just saying... that even if HBO did broadcast their show/moive in 1080p/24 doesn't mean your local cable co would.
> 
> TGC


oh yeah- i totally get that.

But I wonder why HBO doesn't start out that way. Since cable is going to futz with it anyway why not start out closest to the source and then let cable fiddle from there? Plus Directv and Dish server like 25% of the market or something like that off the top of my head (I'm sure someone will correct)- so why not get those two to broadcast that way since ALL their hardware can do it?

But anyway- sorry to drag off topic...


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

vectorcatch said:


> I am willing to bet the thing may not even be able to tune analog channels. It would make sense to me if they ripped all the analog tuners out of them.
> 
> Analog on cable will probably only be valid for another year or so the way things are going.


interesting point. I dont think they will go that far that fast, but on my cable system (and many other comcast ones)- the only things in analog left are SD locals and the public access channels. Locals are all in HD in digital anyway- so analog gets very little use on an HD cable box.

But it could save them a few dollars a box to ditch the analog encoders and all those few dollars add up (I just learned they dont even stick HDMI cables in the TivoHD to save a few bucks)- so it's not all that crazy as long as they kept around the old school tivohd models for those still on systems with analog.


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## cjv2 (Dec 16, 2009)

Folks who have responded to my 1080p question - thanks for the clarifying info.


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## DeWitt (Jun 30, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> how do you download guide data and use the other internet features like netflix, amazone, blockbuster and the like on your tivo without the ability to connect that moca to the internet?
> 
> So if you can't get the moca connected to the net than you have to put an ethernet port on the back of the tivo anyway and connect that to your lan- and if it's there than why not use that for the IP connection between boxes?
> 
> ...


The Fiber ONT installed for Fios suppports Moca Internet. It uses it to talk to verizon STB's. If the Tivo had Moca support it would all play nice over coax. So... on Fios no additional router needed as the existing ONT plays the role.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Not having taken the HD 'plunge' yet, I have to ask.

Can people really see a difference between 1080i and 1080p?


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## cjv2 (Dec 16, 2009)

steve614 said:


> Not having taken the HD 'plunge' yet, I have to ask.
> 
> Can people really see a difference between 1080i and 1080p?


I don't know, but I used to run at 1080i and the TV would reliably give a friend of mine headaches. I dropped the Tivo to 720p on a hunch based on my experience with computer monitors, where going to non-interlaced mode used to require a bit of configuration effort and also had a price premium (way back when).

Anyway, her problem went away. Just to be sure that it wasn't a placebo effect, I didn't tell her when I "fixed" it, just kind of sat back and waited to see if anything got better.

I don't get headaches, but I also pick up on something in interlaced vs. non-interlaced mode, and I prefer non-interlaced.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

TexasGrillChef said:


> I don't think we will ever move entirely away from wired connections. Not until we can figure out how to solve problems for EMF and RF shielding. Simple things like metal buildings work very well to shield normal Wi-Fi signals.
> 
> Many places in my home are "Dead" areas to Wifi G and Wifi N. I had to install antenna's in those areas just to get service.
> 
> ...


They will already be starting to make a push this year for wireless connections for audio and video. That will just increase dramatically from year to year. Once that takes hold, the norm will be not using any wires to connect devcies to the TV and receivers. And for WiFI, there are things being worked on that far surpass what is being used today.

For me, I would have no issue going completely wireless for my network, if/when I can get giggabit speeds from it. I've been running gigabit for nine years now, so I need something at least as fast for many of my devices. Other devices I have are perectly fine with Wireless N(2.4 and 5Ghz). I'm already considering switching many of my devices to wireless bridges. I just need to set up one or two more 5Ghz access points so everything has a strong signal and so I can also roam between the APs.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

steve614 said:


> Not having taken the HD 'plunge' yet, I have to ask.
> 
> Can people really see a difference between 1080i and 1080p?


Two 65" TV next to each other, one showing a BD at 1080P/24 the other showing the same BD at 1080I/60 you could tell the difference, but if you walked into a room and just looked at one of the 65" HDTV you would not very easily tell the difference. One could easily tell the difference between a 1080P BD and a upscaled (to 1080P) normal DVD. On a 32" HDTV I don't think anybody could see the difference. The bigger the screen the more the difference.


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## mae (Dec 10, 2001)

DeWitt said:


> The Fiber ONT installed for Fios suppports Moca Internet. It uses it to talk to verizon STB's. If the Tivo had Moca support it would all play nice over coax. So... on Fios no additional router needed as the existing ONT plays the role.


The FIOS ONT does not talk to the STBs or other MOCA devices (other than a router) directly. There are different MOCA channels for WAN and LAN. The ONT talks to a router via either CAT5/6 or a MOCA WAN channel. The VZ supplied router (Actiontec or Westell) supports both sets of channels over the same coax. It receives WAN data over the WAN channels and the STBs and other MOCA LAN devices (NIM100s, Actiontec routers in bridge mode and similar adapters) over the MOCA LAN channels.

A TiVo with MOCA LAN support could talk to the VZ supplied router via MOCA over a LAN channel, but not directly to the ONT.


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## wublet (Nov 30, 2006)

timstack8969: So will they still need "Cable Cards"?

rocko: The Premiere has a single CableCARD slot so, yes. This follows others like the Moxi which require a single "M" card.

Well, is there any indication that the Premieres won't work without a CableCARD? I might expect the box to work on a cable system if the CableCARD is present, and to work over an ISP broadband connection if the Ethernet jack is connected. (And to work both ways if both connections are there, like my S3 does today.)

I guess the key difference from any previous model would be that the Premiere might be able to deliver, for the first time, the whole expected cable TV user experience using just the Ethernet connection, letting end users ditch the cableco whom they hate. Keeping the CableCARD functionality in the box raises HW costs somewhat, but it also gives customers the confidence that if the cable-over-ISP thing doesn't work out, they can still fall back to the cableco and not lose the sizeable investment in buying the Premiere box.

Also: Just thought of another reason for a high-bandwidth Ethernet port: Multiple recording over the ISP link (i.e. 'Dual Tuner' functionality on steroids -- don't need tuners any more once you're off the cable co).

Still makes a lot of sense to me.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

DeWitt said:


> The Fiber ONT installed for Fios suppports Moca Internet. It uses it to talk to verizon STB's. If the Tivo had Moca support it would all play nice over coax. So... on Fios no additional router needed as the existing ONT plays the role.


 i was replying to a poster who said you DONT NEED a fios router- i took that to mean he/she was saying you dont need FIOS to get good use out of tivo with moca.

obviously the 2% of the population with fios would be good to go (however it works- with or wothout hte router). Actually kidding about 2%- i have no idea if it's 2% or 0.2% or 12 %- but i do know it's no where near mainstream at the moment).


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

steve614 said:


> Not having taken the HD 'plunge' yet, I have to ask.
> 
> Can people really see a difference between 1080i and 1080p?


In My Personal Opinion.... YES... but...

1. Depends on the size and type of set. Can I tell on my 65" plasma? Yes, Can I tell on my 160" projection. Yes, Can I tell on my 32" sets... NO.

2. Depends on your source. Blu-ray, Vudu, and Media Players currently are the only devices capable of playing 1080p content. (I consider the Xbox and PS/3 to be included in the media player catagory) AND you need 1080p content. Even then sometimes you can't tell, and sometimes you can. It all depends on the content your playing.

So hope that helps.

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> They will already be starting to make a push this year for wireless connections for audio and video. That will just increase dramatically from year to year. Once that takes hold, the norm will be not using any wires to connect devcies to the TV and receivers. And for WiFI, there are things being worked on that far surpass what is being used today.
> 
> For me, I would have no issue going completely wireless for my network, if/when I can get giggabit speeds from it. I've been running gigabit for nine years now, so I need something at least as fast for many of my devices. Other devices I have are perectly fine with Wireless N(2.4 and 5Ghz). I'm already considering switching many of my devices to wireless bridges. I just need to set up one or two more 5Ghz access points so everything has a strong signal and so I can also roam between the APs.


Sure absolutely, Things will get better with wireless. Yes their will be more wireless devices. Yes it will use different spectrum.

However you missed my main point....

*The thing about ANYTHING wireless is there will always be a way to "JAM" or something that will block a wireless signal.*

TGC


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

cjv2 said:


> I don't get headaches, but I also pick up on something in interlaced vs. non-interlaced mode, and I prefer non-interlaced.


I could be wrong, but I thought all modern displays internally convert interlaced signals to progressive before displaying them. If this is the case, I don't understand why an interlaced signal coming into the set would be more likely to cause headaches than a progressive one.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

gweempose said:


> I could be wrong, but I thought all modern displays internally convert interlaced signals to progressive before displaying them. If this is the case, I don't understand why an interlaced signal coming into the set would be more likely to cause headaches than a progressive one.


Because deinterlacing is not easy to do correctly. Especially 2:2 cadence video.


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## cjv2 (Dec 16, 2009)

gweempose said:


> I could be wrong, but I thought all modern displays internally convert interlaced signals to progressive before displaying them. If this is the case, I don't understand why an interlaced signal coming into the set would be more likely to cause headaches than a progressive one.


Never said I had an explanation. All I know is that the ladyfriend was a lot happier after I surreptitiously dropped from 1080i to 720p, and since she was happier, I was happier. You do the math. I did. 

From a strictly technical perspective, the issue could be the TV just as much as the Tivo. Beats me. I am hardly an expert on the subject.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

vectorcatch said:


> I am willing to bet the thing may not even be able to tune analog channels. It would make sense to me if they ripped all the analog tuners out of them.
> 
> Analog on cable will probably only be valid for another year or so the way things are going.


except that then the yhave to keep TiVo HD around for those that want to buy with analog available which still has sizeable pockets in the country.

Probably better to wait for a tru2way box (assuming this is not it) to go all digital - which would make for a lot easier video handling and likely make the box a lot easier to program or do things like more than 2 tuners.


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## DrewTivo (Mar 30, 2005)

gweempose said:


> True, but I think TGC's point was that it would be nice to have Gigabit Ethernet on the device now so that it can take advantage of speeds that may be coming several years down the road.


Sure, it would be nice, but I'd rather a chip that could take full advantage of even a 100Mbit connection first. A gigabit port won't help even if the chip is faster, but can't even handle a saturated 100Mbit connection. Comcast, FIOS etc. are a whole other ball of wax.


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## DrewTivo (Mar 30, 2005)

TexasGrillChef said:


> Sure absolutely, Things will get better with wireless. Yes their will be more wireless devices. Yes it will use different spectrum.


It's also easier and cheaper to use a patch cable than to have to include a wireless chip and a way to configure it. The cost of having every device wireless is similar to simply wiring the location in the first place.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

DrewTivo said:


> Sure, it would be nice, but I'd rather a chip that could take full advantage of even a 100Mbit connection first ...


Amen!


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## Allanon (Nov 2, 2005)

Some more information to add to the drama:

http://davisfreeberg.com/2010/02/28/best-buy-bankrolls-tivos-marketing/


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

So...does anyone think we will know any more about this Tomorrow? I just wonder what, if anything, it will mean to my 3 THD's.


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## DougJohnson (Dec 12, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> So...does anyone think we will know any more about this Tomorrow? I just wonder what, if anything, it will mean to my 3 THD's.


There are two worst case scenarios, depending on your definition of "worst". First, your 3 THD's just keep running along. Second, they announce something so compelling that you want to buy it. -- Doug


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## wublet (Nov 30, 2006)

DrewTivo said:


> Sure, it would be nice, but I'd rather a chip that could take full advantage of even a 100Mbit connection first. A gigabit port won't help even if the chip is faster, but can't even handle a saturated 100Mbit connection. Comcast, FIOS etc. are a whole other ball of wax.


Well, of course a faster processor would always be nice, and Moore's Law assures us we'll get that at some point. But if by 'take full advantage' you mean stream a higher-res program for viewing, there are a whole lot of other useful things you can do with a faster Ethernet connection, too.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Well, if a faster proc lets me get an HD menu, I can live with my THD's! I want to see the Show, and not the menu.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

wmcbrine said:


> Rubbish. Wired will always have a place. It's faster, more secure, and more stable, and it's going to stay that way -- wireless advances, but so does wired.


Yep. Utter nonsense. My wired network right now can rather easily manage more than 10Gbps throughput. I doubt any wireless network will ever match that. Inexpensive 10G equipment is already on the horizon, and a good 10G switch will readily push well over 100Gbps. I know no wireless network will ever match those speeds, at least not an RF wireless network.

When it comes to security, wired networks make any wireless solution look just plain silly.

When it comes to reliability, wired networks make wireless networks look downright stupid. If anyone doesn't believe me, I suggest they come to San Antonio and spend a week (or a month) trying to keep my sister's wireless network up and running.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

lrhorer said:


> Yep. Utter nonsense. My wired network right now can rather easily manage more than 10Gbps throughput. I doubt any wireless network will ever match that. Inexpensive 10G equipment is already on the horizon, and a good 10G switch will readily push well over 100Gbps. I know no wireless network will ever match those speeds, at least not an RF wireless network.
> 
> When it comes to security, wired networks make any wireless solution look just plain silly.
> 
> When it comes to reliability, wired networks make wireless networks look downright stupid. If anyone doesn't believe me, I suggest they come to San Antonio and spend a week (or a month) trying to keep my sister's wireless network up and running.


Is she good looking ?


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

steve614 said:


> Not having taken the HD 'plunge' yet, I have to ask.
> 
> Can people really see a difference between 1080i and 1080p?


It depends. On a still photograph, there is almost no detectable difference between 1080I and 1080p. They have precisely the same resolution. There may be an impression of greater color depth, but such an impression is higholy subjective. With a "perfect" motion picture image, one may be able to discern a difference between a 1080i source and a 1080p source, but the quality and size of the display also makes a significant difference. Certainly a 1080p system has the potential for producing a higher PQ than a similar 1080i system, but the content and environmental factors can readily overwhelm the advantage held by the 1080p system. In any case, it is not the huge jump one can see between broadcast analog NTSC and 1080i.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

Here is one thing I would like to point out..... Which really honestly makes me wonder.

TiVo AND Best Buy are claiming this new anouncement WILL change the way we watch TV for evermore. That this new announcement is something revolutionary. Even *MORE* reveolutionary then when they announced the invention of the DVR. Which we can all say *HAS* changed the way people watch TV.

Now keeping that in mind...

*1.* An upgrade to our current TiVo DVR's in terms of hardware would have to be more than just a new CPU, Bigger Hard drive, and Faster ethernet/Internet speeds (wired or wireless). There needs to be something inherently DIFFERENT in the NEW hardware to make it something that would actually change the way we watch TV. Simply better more efficient hardware *isn't* going to be radical enough to do that. IMHO

*2. *Same thing applies to Software.

Now as we have seen a minor preview as to two new units being released, It doesn't seem like that big a deal, NOT as big a deal as they are likeing to claim. Which for me is a big big let down.

What we don't know though, is what will the new hardware do? What UI or other software has been implemented on these units? Will that software/UI be available on our current TiVo's?

It is VERY possible that while the hardware may be nothing more than an "improved" version of the TiVo HD/HDXL/S3. I am betting that the software is what is going to be different.

I could be wrong, I could be very disapointed on March 2nd. More than likely I will. Thing is none of us know till they make the annoucement.

Just they are making really big claims on how big this annoucement is. One interesting fact. They didn't make this big of "pre-announcement" claim when they released the first HD TiVo! To me that should have been a bigger announcement than it was.

Anyways holding my fingers crossed!

TGC


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

One of the rumors that popped up was the ability for "sling-like" features where the feed can be sent to other devices. In the mind of a marketer, this can fall under the "change how we watch TV" hype, even though it's not exciting... since Sling already exists.

We just need to keep our hype filters on and expectations in check until we see some actual substance, IMO.


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## oViTynoT (May 18, 2007)

Lot's of users must be searching Amazon for it already; all you have to type is TIVO(space)P and PREMIERE gets auto-completed.

No Hits yet..


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## Scyber (Apr 25, 2002)

TexasGrillChef said:


> *1.* An upgrade to our current TiVo DVR's in terms of hardware would have to be more than just a new CPU, Bigger Hard drive, and Faster ethernet/Internet speeds (wired or wireless). There needs to be something inherently DIFFERENT in the NEW hardware to make it something that would actually change the way we watch TV. Simply better more efficient hardware *isn't* going to be radical enough to do that. IMHO


I disagree, there doesn't need to be anything significant in the hardware to change the way we watch TV. Moving to faster/better hardware opens up the possibilities on the software side of things. In addition, doing something "radical" on the hardware side of things is expensive, using generally available components will allow them to keep costs down.

Most likely any radical changes will be on the software side of things.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> ...We just need to keep our hype filters on and expectations in check until we see some actual substance, IMO.


Agreed. TiVo has only placed 7 non-specific words on an (not for public) invitation. Today's announcement could be: "Inventing the DVR was just a warmup. Now we're drinking coffee and taking a break."


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

orangeboy said:


> Agreed. TiVo has only placed 7 non-specific words on an (not for public) invitation. Today's announcement could be: "Inventing the DVR was just a warmup. Now we're drinking coffee and taking a break."


... now we're SLIGHTLY INCREASING HARD DRIVE SPACE! The Cable DVR is doomed! [insert maniacal laughter here]


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

orangeboy said:


> "Inventing the DVR was just a warmup. Now we're drinking coffee and taking a break."


Winnar. :up:


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Crunchgear said to look for the details after 6 PM Eastern Time!


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## cjv2 (Dec 16, 2009)

Zack's rates Tivo not-exactly-what-I-would-call-nicely... today, but *before* whatever today's announcement is. Timing, anyone?


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

cjv2 said:


> Zack's rates Tivo not-exactly-what-I-would-call-nicely... today, but *before* whatever today's announcement is. Timing, anyone?


Given TiVo's lack of press releases, exhibited here: TiVo Inc. Press Room, this analyst really didn't have much to go on except the numbers. Just like the AP photog, I'm sure this guy will be groaning tomorrow!


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## cjv2 (Dec 16, 2009)

Ba-dang. Cnet.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Well...is this it?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10462438-1.html


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## cjv2 (Dec 16, 2009)

It has a capacity meter... that's what all the secrecy was about! They're going to dominate the world now! In other announcements, the head of Skynet is actually a Tivo.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Yeah...the UI is nice looking, but once you start a show...who cares?


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## cjv2 (Dec 16, 2009)

More stuff... a little more technical detail.

Notable quote:



> "TiVo Series 3 and HD owners will never see the new UI and are out of luck. I assume it's mostly due to prior generation processing power and architecture."


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

If there is no processor upgrade then who cares?


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## bschuler2007 (Feb 25, 2007)

I actually like the news.. better than I had hoped as long as the top menu bar stays show adverts and not as I had suspected, Viagra, Budweiser, Trojan etc.. ads.


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## cjv2 (Dec 16, 2009)

vurbano said:


> If there is no processor upgrade then who cares?


The hardware *is* upgraded, I believe.

Separate but interesting, from here:



> Comcast Corp. (Nasdaq: CMCSA, CMCSK) has already agreed to offer TiVo as the "primary DVR option going forward" in a yet-to-be announced tru2way market.


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## RayChuang88 (Sep 5, 2002)

I like the new TiVo Premiere XL box, but the price of the box plus Wi-Fi adapter plus that new QWERTY remote could drive the price to over US$600. That's not much less than the planned VIZIO SV420M HDTV set I plan to get! :down:


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

vurbano said:


> If there is no processor upgrade then who cares?


In the Premiere? There is a new processor with 2.5x to 3x the performance.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

TexasGrillChef said:


> *1.* An upgrade to our current TiVo DVR's in terms of hardware would have to be more than just a new CPU, Bigger Hard drive, and Faster ethernet/Internet speeds (wired or wireless).


I disagree, but only in certain very specifc, (but somewhat important to me) respects.

First of all, I hate pauses in viewing when transfering material from the server, which constitutes over 90% of my viewing. It's a bit cumbersome that I have to make sure both tuners are idle to minimize pauses, and the fact I cannot eliminate them altogether is irksome.

Also, it's not uncommon that family or friends select a heretofore unwatched program on my recommendation only to find they don't find it as appealing as I had thought. It would be very nice to have two or three programs transferring simultaneously while watching one. Also, it would be nice to be able to fast-forward more than is usually the case. Of course streaming would allow fast-forwarding (one way or the other) regardless of the transfer rate.



TexasGrillChef said:


> There needs to be something inherently DIFFERENT in the NEW hardware to make it something that would actually change the way we watch TV. Simply better more efficient hardware *isn't* going to be radical enough to do that. IMHO


Not entirely. Similar, but more effective, hardware allows one to develop more advanced applications. Video editing might become practical, for example, as well as more generalized computing applications.


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