# Battlestar Galactica "Downloaded" 2/24/2006



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Now, that's more like it! :up:


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## Lord_Skywalker (Oct 22, 2005)

Excellent. Six is psychotic also. I agree, this is back to the suspense and drama that drew me in.


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## Narkul (Nov 7, 2004)

Best episode of the second half of season 2 for me.

Not sure why Six and Baltar share these manipulating visions? Baltar's vision pro cylon and six's vision pro human.


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## shannontr (Feb 25, 2006)

I personally have not enjoyed the last few episodes. They were too disjointed and predictable, especially last week.

I was almost not going to watch this week, and when the episode opened with "Nine Months Ago" I groaned. I'm glad I hung in there though - this episode reclaimed the magic that had been missing lately.

The plot was complex, answered some questions, asked new ones. Most importantly, it left me deep in tought about the possibilities and got my pulse going. A very entertaining episode.

BSG has always walked a fine line between complexity and being too over-the-top. The last three episodes I felt leaned heavily towards over-the-top. I couldn't suspend disbelief and sink into the episode.

Not so this week. The hour came and went and left me wanting more, just like in the good old days. Excellent job - any doubts I had about the quality of the show have been erased with this ep. :up:


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Outstanding. Finally the writers are back in form. Great television.
Only thing different I'd have done would have been to illustrate the spylons' humanity further by staging a lesbian menage-a-trois between Xena, Caprica Six and Chief's Sharon. But maybe that's just me.

-phil (do not show post to wife)


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Great ep. But first, the things I don't like. 

Why not kill the cylon baby? The writers have gone out of their way to make it clear that the administration has no qualms with abortion of human babies. Why balk at a cylon baby?

I'm still having trouble with Helo's love affair with Boomer. I just can't see any sane person staying in love with a member of a machine/race that murdered millions of your own people. The writers haven't convinced me that that relationship makes sense.

Now the good stuff:

Obviously, CapricaSharon and CapricaSix were the biggest revelation. That they've both decided that killing millions of people was evil and that they are now interested in challenging what "God's will" truly is opens up huge possibilities.

Now, with the introduction of a real?/imaginary? Baltar to go along with a real?/imaginary? Six, things get more confusing. What are the odds that a human and a Cylon would both develop the same psychopathy? Not very good, I'd say. So, that makes it look planned. If so, who's doing the planning? My first thought when seeing Baltar, and not yet knowing that he was invisible to the other Cylons was that the real Baltar was behind it all. Now I wonder if that is the case and that the real Baltar is neither the GalacticaBaltar nor the FigmentBaltar


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Boy, if we thought it was hard coming up with good explanations of how Six was haunting Baltar, think how much harder it will be to figure out why Baltar is haunting Caprica 6. 

And we finally picked up a couple more number designations, although I think it was a cheat to show a cafe with 40 or so Cylons and have all of them be from the models we know. (Well there was one female in the middle ground that might have been a new model during one of the pan shots, but you couldn't really get a great view). 

I wonder if the downloaded Sharon will try to get word to the fleet that Baltar is/was working for the Cylons. I almost thought she was going to pass the word to the underground guy but instead she tossed him her gun. 

Oh, and speaking of Baltar, what was he doing in the initial meeting where Roslin was talking to Adama and Tigh about what to do with the baby? He very publicly broke from his position as vice president.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

shannontr said:


> I personally have not enjoyed the last few episodes. They were too disjointed and predictable, especially last week.
> 
> I was almost not going to watch this week, and when the episode opened with "Nine Months Ago" I groaned. I'm glad I hung in there though - this episode reclaimed the magic that had been missing lately.
> :


Loved the turnabout with Caprica Six being tormented by her Baltar.
The giving the hybrid baby away was a predictable twist.
Any episode with Sharon featured is worth watching.

No comparison with the 3 previous crappy episodes.


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

Totally agree... we have finally come back to the show's bread and butter. After weeks of Pegasus, crazy Lee, crazy/drunk Kara, and a legendary Cylon Raider.... we get a story that's progressing the main story *and* manages to be an enthralling hour's programming.

There were some interesting things during the Cylon scenes. We found out Sharon is number 8, and D'ana Biers is number 3. We also found out that the show's budget didn't let them get back Simon or Leoben to show on Caprica, and they chickened out from showing us any other models.

But for me, the most interesting thing was seeing Cylon life on Caprica. Part of what made it so gripping was that it was so... normal. We saw them in a cafe sharing coffee, we saw them strolling through parks, planting trees... it manages to not only further humanize an electronic enemy, but manages to make the Evil Ones even more Evil just by having them do simple day-to-day activities that we do ourselves... it was so creepy.

My only real complaint is that the B story, about Sharon's baby, felt like it had no business in this episode. I've spent most of season 2 waiting to see what happened with Sharon's baby... and there was no build up for it, there was minimal screen time, and the whole thing was done in about 4 minutes combined screen time. It felt out of place, and I really find myself wondering why they didn't dedicate a whole episode to it.

Two standout funny moments, too... the funniest was the license plate in the destroyed garage, SEXYMOM. Second was D'ana Biers' comment near the start of the episode: 

"Everyone calls you CapricaSix... like you're the only Six on the planet"

You can tell the writers are reading the web forums.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

If you're a Cylon and you pass another of your own Cylon models on the street do you give a little head nod "wassup" in solidarity? Do you feel guilty if you have a lot better job than he does? Do you make eye contact when he serves you coffee?


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## Narkul (Nov 7, 2004)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Great ep. But first, the things I don't like.
> 
> Why not kill the cylon baby? The writers have gone out of their way to make it clear that the administration has no qualms with abortion of human babies. Why balk at a cylon baby?


Military intelligence perhaps. Let it grow unknown to the cylons, always keeping a watchful eye on it hopefully to see why it might have been so important. Why squander a clue to what the cylons may ultimately be after.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I hope this means they're done screwing around and ready to get back to business!

I love how they took the uncertainty surrounding Balthar's survival on Caprica, and instead of resolving it, added another layer to the uncertainty.

And I love how they complicated the "sides" even further with the moderate Cylons. I've thought almost since the beginning that it will come down to moderate Cylons and humans teaming up against the extremists on either side who want to fight until everybody's dead...although for a while it looked like Adama would be the leader of the moderate humans, and he doesn't seem to be leaning that way any more.


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## quango (Sep 25, 2005)

This episode was clearly yet more evidence of the writers not planning ahead and just making things up as we go along. For example, in the middle of "33" or the mini, we should have seen Caprica 6 reborn---but noooo! How dare they use flashbacks to fill in backstory that would have been irrelevant to other episodes' plots!

And what's up with Anders still being alive? We haven't seen him in weeks... and yet he's running around Caprica, and he has some new team members we've never seen before. When did he recruit these people?

What's the deal with all these cars on Caprica? And in a freaking _parking garage_ no less. All we've seen before is military vehicles like Kara's Hummer. We should have seen lots of cars when Helo and Sharon and Starbuck were running around Caprica for nine months... but again, all this piss-poor planning by the writers means that these cars just come from _absolutely nowhere_.

And, to add insult to injury, #3 can't even keep the same damn accent. Why didn't we see her Berlitz course?

No Commander Adama. No Starbuck. Just a bunch of technobabble about "babies" and "explosives" and "downloads" and "WWE-style blading."

A total crapfest. Ron Moore has lost it. And he hurt my feelings in last week's podcast with his little skits with the phone and his wife. WORST EPSIODE EVAR!

Sorry, I was just trying to get ahead of the whiners...


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I hope this means they're done screwing around and ready to get back to business!
> 
> I love how they took the uncertainty surrounding Balthar's survival on Caprica, and instead of resolving it, added another layer to the uncertainty.
> 
> And I love how they complicated the "sides" even further with the moderate Cylons. I've thought almost since the beginning that it will come down to moderate Cylons and humans teaming up against the extremists on either side who want to fight until everybody's dead...although for a while it looked like Adama would be the leader of the moderate humans, and he doesn't seem to be leaning that way any more.


The ambiguity on many issues and levels was craftily done. Luv it. 
I've also noticed the drift in Adama's outlook and hope it's purposeful and not inadvertant.


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## Tangent (Feb 25, 2005)

LOVED this episode! I also thought it was odd that Baltar was in on the first meeting, but it was very clear that he wasn't in on the plan to decide what to really do with the baby. This makes me think that the first meeting included him mostly to let him believe he was still being let in on everything that happened.



Skittles said:


> There were some interesting things during the Cylon scenes. We found out Sharon is number 8, and D'ana Biers is number 3. We also found out that the show's budget didn't let them get back Simon or Leoben to show on Caprica, and they chickened out from showing us any other models.


And Doral is number 5.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

quango said:


> Sorry, I was just trying to get ahead of the whiners...


Nice satire though


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## Tangent (Feb 25, 2005)

quango said:


> Sorry, I was just trying to get ahead of the whiners...


The sad thing is that you really had me goin' for a minute because there are probably several people who would argue exactly those points...


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Yes, awesome episode! Lots to love, but I did find one thing funny; did anyone else think of Keanu when Boomer was yelling, Im a frakking Cylon!? I couldnt help but hear, I am an F.B.I. agent! in my head.

I like how the Baltar and 6 in each others head is a more cynical "evil", devil-on-the-shoulder version of the real persons personality.

Did I just refer to a Cylon as a person?


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## net114 (Dec 29, 2000)

I agree with the above post that the story, to make more sense, would have meant simply killing the cylon baby. If it is SO dangerous, and they go through all of the trouble to fake its death, then the only decision that makes sense (for the story) would have been to kill it. Leaving it alive seems like just a predictable vehicle for a whole episode where the adopted mother is found out or something.

Other than that, great episode. Move the story forward, and that's what we've been waiting for.


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## bryan314 (Nov 17, 2004)

Narkul said:


> Best episode of the second half of season 2 for me.
> 
> Not sure why Six and Baltar share these manipulating visions? Baltar's vision pro cylon and six's vision pro human.


I'm convinced more than ever there's a third party trying to influence both cylons and humans. In the Kobol episode Sharon said the humans didn't know who or what their gods were. I think a few 'gods' are still hanging around.


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## whoknows55 (Jun 17, 2001)

Wow.


Just wow.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Great episode. :up:

I see that the commentaries for this and last week are now up...


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

Great ep! :up: :up: 

So CapricaBoomer is now GalacticaBoomer and vice versa!  

I caught the SEXYMOM Caprica license plate in the garage as well. Anything mentioned in the podcast about it? It also had some sort of CBUCKS RULE bumper sticker on it (which I at first thought read BUICKS RULE).


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## dtivouser (Feb 10, 2004)

Was it my imagination or is Sharon's apartment identical to Starbucks? Military housing maybe?

When they were releasing the ashes the thought crossed my mind that the (fake) baby was "boxed" like Sharon expected to be. Hmm.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Tangent said:


> The sad thing is that you really had me goin' for a minute because there are probably several people who would argue exactly those points...


Not really. He just showed that he completely misses the point on criticisms people have had of recent episodes, since the "criticisms" he gave of this one are not in any way analogous.


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

Tangent said:


> LOVED this episode! I also thought it was odd that Baltar was in on the first meeting, but it was very clear that he wasn't in on the plan to decide what to really do with the baby. This makes me think that the first meeting included him mostly to let him believe he was still being let in on everything that happened.


I keep waiting for the President to let everyone know that she saw Baltar with 6 before Caprica was attacked. Now she can let the info "slip out" to Baltar and watch him trap himself. Just a thought...


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Okay, maybe when the nuke blast hit Baltar's house, Baltar and Caprica Six each got little chunks of each other stuck in themselves. 

Or maybe there was some sort of psychic component to the blast that swapped a little bit of their brains with each other?

"Dude, you've got......Arzt on you." LOL


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

I thought it was an amazing episode. I've been saying since the beginning that Baltar was a Cylon, but didn't know it. I'm even more convinced now. How did Six die in that explosion and not him? 

Skittles mentioned that we hadn't seen Simon or Leoben in this episode. I could have sworn I saw them in some of the crowd scenes. I'll have to look again when I watch with the podcast.

The cars in the garage took me out of the story briefly. Wasn't one of the cars a Citroen?

I was surprised that they gave the baby to someone who didn't know that it was half-Cylon. Wouldn't that pose problems when their spine starts glowing? Seriously, they have no idea how fast this baby will grow or what characteristics it might display. It would have made sense to have someone in the loop raise it... like Baltar. 

When did the plural Cylons become Cylon? Just wondering. So what's the tally now? We're aware of six different models, right?


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

net114 said:


> I agree with the above post that the story, to make more sense, would have meant simply killing the cylon baby. If it is SO dangerous, and they go through all of the trouble to fake its death, then the only decision that makes sense (for the story) would have been to kill it. Leaving it alive seems like just a predictable vehicle for a whole episode where the adopted mother is found out or something.


What's wrong with that?

As to killing the baby, "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer" is the meme that Adama seems to have adopted with the Spylons. I'd like to think that someone in the BSG command hierarchy would have some curiosity about the detailed nature of the 'enemy'. They know little about the cylons as is.

Besides the earlier sci-fi ads for BSG featured the hybrid baby in the womb and said it changes everything. We knew it would not be killed.


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## DVC California (Jun 4, 2004)

Great episode...back to the compelling storylines that got us all hooked in the first place.

Did anyone notice that Sharon's wrists were in restraints while she was "reincarnated" in the tank? And that Caprica Six wasn't when she came back? I thought that was interesting.


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## J4yDubs (Jul 3, 2002)

Loved the episode. Best of season 2.5. Last week was good, but not great. This week was great again. Guess I can lose the "hater" tag now.  

When I first saw Baltar, I thought they were taking the easy way out and making him a Cylon. Glad I was wrong and the Caprica6 visions add a nice dynamic.

Still not sold on there being "good" Cylons. GalacticaSharon showed us that no matter how much they think they are "good" or human the Cylon programming will still kick in. I suspect we'll see this happen later with the 2 "good" Cylons.

The one thing I didn't like about the episode was the baby scenes. Felt rushed. And do they not think the adopted mother won't notice her new "baby" acting a little strange? Like a glowing spine or something? Seems like a risk they shouldn't take. The other thing about the baby was how fast is recovered from being preemie. I don't know how much time passed, but I'd guess a day or two. One day it's in an incubator and the next in a humans arms. Believable because of it being a hybrid, but no mention of it on the show.

Glad to see them finally get back to the main story lines. Up to this point it felt like filler episodes that didn't add much to the story.

John


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## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

latrobe7 said:


> Yes, awesome episode! Lots to love, but I did find one thing funny; did anyone else think of Keanu when Boomer was yelling, Im a frakking Cylon!? I couldnt help but hear, I am an F.B.I. agent! in my head.
> ...snip...


Hehehe, good call. I thought that scene was very unconvincing. Oh well, very good episode otherwise.


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## danieljanderson (Nov 19, 2002)

I'm suprised they wouldn't raise the baby in lab somewhere. Seems like a big risk setting it amongst the population. Maybe the Mom is on the prison ship. She was looking out a very small window.


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## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

PJO1966 said:


> Skittles mentioned that we hadn't seen Simon or Leoben in this episode. I could have sworn I saw them in some of the crowd scenes. I'll have to look again when I watch with the podcast.


I know I saw Simon....


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## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

I'm willing to bet that Baltar & Six's "connection" has something to with the "love" that they shared before the attack.

(Remember Six talking about love & God's love and all of that? I think it's connected.)


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

Skittles said:


> Two standout funny moments, too... the funniest was the license plate in the destroyed garage, SEXYMOM. Second was D'ana Biers' comment near the start of the episode:


The new mom of the cylon baby was pretty hot.

I just hope we get to see more of the cylon reveloution in the last two episodes.

Will the new season be in July like last year?


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## jerobi (Sep 28, 2000)

Good ep. I agree with the Baltar=Cylon angle, and that some of their code was swapped, resulting in these alternate consciences. Baltar had to die in that blast, right? I know Six told him to "get down," but standing or ducking wouldn't have mattered much in that explosion, no?

I find it interesting to see the human-based Cylon models walking around Caprica just like humans - chatting outdoors, spending time in a cafe, etc. Meanwhile, the "bullet head" models are the ones repairing the grounds, doing the security detail, etc. Gee, it's almost like the new model cylons are treating the old ones like their robot slaves a little more every day.

So, how long until CapricaSix and Sharon are being hunted, and find a way to escape into space, where one of them will emerge during an attack on the fleet to take the place of an existing cylon model on the ships? Oh, and the one that doesn't make it will probably do something heroic to spring the surviving one to freedom.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

7thton said:


> I know I saw Simon....


I just finished listening to the podcast. They used a Simon stand-in for two shots. They felt it wasn't worth the extra $$ to bring those two actors in just for a few establishing shots. They felt they weren't really any parts for them in the storyline.


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## Topher5000 (Jan 2, 2006)

It looks like Caprica6 got a concience & it's name is Baltar. I can't explain Baltar's visions, though.
I can understand Sharon being in shackles & 6 not. 6 knew she was a Cylon all along & Sharon was programmed to be a human.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

jerobi said:


> Good ep. I agree with the Baltar=Cylon angle, and that some of their code was swapped, resulting in these alternate consciences. Baltar had to die in that blast, right? I know Six told him to "get down," but standing or ducking wouldn't have mattered much in that explosion, no?


Hard to tell. It looked like it was 'just' an overpressure wave at that point and the main danger was the glass shards it flung from the windows. It's not impossible that Six's body could have stopped enough of the glass (as she died) to keep Baltar alive. But possibly not.

That was a nicely done scene where it appeared for a second to confirm that Baltar was a Cylon, and then take that confidence away.

However, since 6 knew all 12 Cylon models, and appeared to actually care that Baltar was alive I'm going to have to assume that Baltar is actually human and not a Cylon.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Jonathan_S said:


> However, since 6 knew all 12 Cylon models, and appeared to actually care that Baltar was alive I'm going to have to assume that Baltar is actually human and not a Cylon.


I wouldn't go quite that far. I'd say it's likely he's something else altogether...

Given their track record with science, it's hard to say what they have in mind, but being that close to the blast, there's very little chance he would have survived the radiation poisoning long enough to make it to the shuttle. And Six said the house was destroyed, not that the windows were knocked out. So either they're playing fast and loose with science again, or the Balthar that was in the house died there.

Which leaves the question, then, of what exactly is the Vice President? Certainly not one of the 12 models, as Jonathan points out. One would think the Six in Balthar's mind and the Balthar in Six's mind must be related; it would be stretching coincidence to the point of absurdity otherwise. Who or what put them there? Do the writers have something specific in mind? Hard to say at this point, since they've already botched the Spylons beyond reason (by making them medically indistinguishable from humans, yet capable of things impossible by human physiology). I'm no longer willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, since it's become obvious that in some respects, they're just making it up as they go along. But I still hold hope that They Have A Plan (the writers, not the Cylons).


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

It's just apparent that The (writers') Plan is not exactly well thought out. As a science guy I try hard to suspend any reasoning facilities when stuff like Six protecting Baltar from the nuke that leveled the Caprica house. I missed the mini-series (started on season one re-runs) and now know that's what happened, with no further explanation.

I like the episodes that occur on planets much better than the ludicrous space battle episodes.


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## JoeyJoJo (Sep 29, 2003)

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Baltar is God.


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## Kevdog (Apr 18, 2001)

Refresh my memory: when did we first find out that D'Ana Biers is a cylon?


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

I just listened to the podcast (the first one of them I've listened to) and I'm not quite sure what to make of it. Just how reliable a narrator are we to make of Moore? Are we to believe him when he describes the interior thoughts of the characters? Even Six and Baltar? Or might he be purposely misleading the listener in order to protect future storylines?

If he's telling the truth, then the Six in Baltar's head and the Baltar in Six's head are both wholly imaginary and both are merely the products of their psychoses. He didn't even acknowledge the possibility that they are implanted agents of some sort.


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## DRobbins (Dec 23, 2001)

Kevdog said:


> Refresh my memory: when did we first find out that D'Ana Biers is a cylon?


I believe it was in the episode where a journalist did a story profiling the lives of the men and women serving on Galactica. Right at the end her true identity was revealed.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

One thing from the podcast that was interesting was Moore's comment that the Cylon don't have centuries of culture to guide them on moral issues. That begs the question then, what is the source of their religion? Is it part of their programming given to them by an evil creator that we haven't yet met? Was it developed by themselves through their own efforts at philosophy?

Also interesting is the source of the new revelation of CapricaSix and CapricaBoomer that the Cylon view of God's will is fundamentally wrong. CapricaBoomer and, to some extent, CapricaSix are distinguished from the other Cylons by their ability to love. Contemplating love has given them insight into higher concepts inaccessible to other Cylon. This is why Boomer could object to Six's statement that God loves her by holding up a photograph and challenging Six with "No, THIS is love!".

I guess this is supposed to be self-evident to anyone with a complete set of human facualties. She didn't reference religion or culture, but simply recognized it as true because it is true. If t's the beginning of a Cylon awakening, then they will be forced to deal with their own "original sin"--and it's a doozy.


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## jerobi (Sep 28, 2000)

Edit: nevermind! One good post after another leaves my compliment somewhere in the middle


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Fool Me Twice said:


> If he's telling the truth, then the Six in Baltar's head and the Baltar in Six's head are both wholly imaginary and both are merely the products of their psychoses. He didn't even acknowledge the possibility that they are implanted agents of some sort.


I didn't hear it so definite. I kind of felt he left the door open to the possibility that there something more to them.


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## quango (Sep 25, 2005)

latrobe7 said:


> I didn't hear it so definite. I kind of felt he left the door open to the possibility that there something more to them.


My sense of the podcast description is that Baltar and C-Six are perceiving the "inner" Six/Baltar through the lens of their own perception of the other.

It is highly unlikely that both Baltar and C-Six would (a) have exactly the same mental illness and (b) its manifestation would be the appearance of the other... suggesting either some some psychic link between the two at an unconscious level or the same outside influence (e.g. "the Cylon God") acting on both.

Another interesting revelation in the episode: neither Shelley Godfrey nor Gina is the Six that Baltar knew on Caprica. Whenever (and however) it happens, a reunion of Baltar and C-Six should be very interesting...


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## bryan314 (Nov 17, 2004)

I doubt Baltar is a Cylon. What need would there have been for 6 in the beginning? It would have been an unnecessary risk for the Cylons have two agents together trying to subvert the colonial defense systems. 6 was sent to seduce Baltar to gain access to the computer systems. It makes no sense for her to seduce another Cylon and later become a cyclon war hero as a result.


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

Whew! What a relief! I thought BG may have jumped the shark! But we're back!

Baltar is a Cylon. The radiation from the nuclear explosion on Caprica caused the "transmission" of his and C-six's consiousness to fuse with each other, causing the result we are now seeing.

Just kidding.


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## Tangent (Feb 25, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Given their track record with science, it's hard to say what they have in mind, but being that close to the blast, there's very little chance he would have survived the radiation poisoning long enough to make it to the shuttle.


The way I look at it is that the Cylons have applied their efficiency to everything, including their nukes. We are capable of creating nuclear warheads that create tremendous blasts and relatively high radiation levels, but we also have the technology to create neutron bombs. These are essentially very low-yield bombs that produce a massive burst of neutron and gamma radiation. This kills all living things in its radius but causes very little physical damage. Who's to say that Cylon warheads aren't efficient enough to cause massive blasts but relatively limited radiation compared to our weapons?

Even our nuke's radiation wouldn't necessarily kill you that quickly. If you're far enough away that the initial blast doesn't kill you it would take days to even weeks for symptoms to appear. More than enough time for Baltar to have reached the Raptor and be given and what's apparently a very effective anti-radiation medicine.


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## NoVa (Feb 26, 2006)

Sorry I am arrivinging late into the ballgame (new TiVo owner BECAUSE of the new BG)...But one of the Sharon's got shot earlier this year (Jack Ruby-esque) & I missed it because of VCR timing.

Which one got shot? The real Sharon (if not where is the real Sharon?)? 

Thanks.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

NoVa said:


> Which one got shot? The real Sharon (if not where is the real Sharon?)?
> 
> Thanks.


If by "real Sharon" you mean the first Sharon we know; yes she is the one that got shot, and she was the Sharon on Caprica in this episode.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

It seems the higher the model number, the more sympathetic to humans they tend to get.


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

latrobe7 said:


> If by "real Sharon" you mean the first Sharon we know; yes she is the one that got shot, and she was the Sharon on Caprica in this episode.


It gets real confusing as we used to refer to them as Galactica Boomer and Caprica Boomer, and now they have switched places. And then there's Caprica Six, Baltar Six, Pegasus Six and numerous other random ones of both.


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

Tangent said:


> More than enough time for Baltar to have reached the Raptor and be given and what's apparently a very effective anti-radiation medicine.


Baltar would have been fine from radiation. There were scores of other people that were also survivors that were vying for Helo's position that Baltar got on the raptor. Debris might be another question, but I'm willing to believe that Six shielded him for the most part.

Baltar is not a cylon. Although the president could be, I swear I saw someone with striking red hair turned away from the camera in the background...


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## Warren (Oct 18, 2001)

or here is an idea. its a tv show who cares if the "science" in this show isn't 100% 

I used to ask my uncle all the time. "how come x didn't happen to y" he would always say. "because the script says so"


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Vito the TiVo said:


> Baltar would have been fine from radiation. There were scores of other people that were also survivors that were vying for Helo's position that Baltar got on the raptor.


No, he would not have. If he were within the blast radius, he would have been dead in hours.

Realistically, the others were much further away from the blast, and Baltar somehow travelled or was transfered out of the high-danger zone.


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## Warren (Oct 18, 2001)

I guess Rob Helmerichs dosen't read my post.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

I really enjoyed this episode, but the timing is suspect. Caprica 6 was resurrected 9 months ago, and Boomer was resurrected 10 weeks ago. 

This means Caprica and the rest of humanity were attacked 9 months ago, and Adama and Boomer were shot 10 weeks ago. Does this timeline fit? This would make the mini-series and all of Season 1 take place in about 6.5 to 7 months of time, while all of Season 2 (so far) has only taken place in 10 weeks. 

Here's where something doesn't feel right: It feels for sure like Season 2 should be well beyond 10 weeks of storytelling. Wasn't there even a "one month later" or something graphic before Lee took command of the Pegasus, when he was promoted to major "in between" episodes? 

The only issue I had with this episode was about faking the death of Helo's baby. In a population of just under 50,000 - would there really be that many 1- or 2-day old dead babies that the President's aide has a "list" of them???? Regardless, Helo's Sharon already suspects that Doc Coddle murdered the baby. She's smart. I think it's just a matter of time before her grief wears off and she begins to question whether or not that was even her baby that was cremated ...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

warrenevans said:


> I guess Rob Helmerichs dosen't read my post.


That's because I have pretty strong feelings about people who think that science fiction doesn't need science, and didn't want to violate forum rules against rudeness by expressing them.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

A light-bulb went off with this episode.
I at first thought that all models, and lets use Sharon as an example here, shared the knowledge of every other unit of that model. I have no idea why, but I thought all the Sharon's were "connected". Now what are The "Heroes of Cylon" planning? I LOVED the Baltar in Six's head, much Snarkier than the real Baltar.
I think they are concocted figments of each others psyche since neither Six nor Baltar have a conscience. Good stuff this week for sure.


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## Tivortex (Feb 29, 2004)

drew2k said:


> I really enjoyed this episode, but the timing is suspect. Caprica 6 was resurrected 9 months ago, and Boomer was resurrected 10 months ago.


Better check again. I think it was 10 WEEKS ago that Boomer was revived.

EDIT: Ah I see you simply mis-spoke in the first line of your post. Never Mind.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Awesome episode. I found myself looking at the clock and seeing 45 minutes had passed and I thought it just started. This was how engaging the 1st season was to me and has been lost recently.

Spoilered just in case:



Spoiler



I think we'll see a lot more of the cylon "civil war" since it was announced Xena signed on for 10 episodes next season just a few weeks ago. I kind of wondered what she would be doing.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

My analysis of bonscott's speculation:


bonscott87 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I think we'll see a lot more of the cylon "civil war" since it was announced Xena signed on for 10 episodes next season just a few weeks ago. I kind of wondered what she would be doing.


Although


Spoiler



there is still a Xena in the fleet, so that's not necessarily where they're going. I hope it IS, but not necessarily!


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Tivortex said:


> Better check again. I think it was 10 WEEKS ago that Boomer was revived.
> 
> EDIT: Ah I see you simply mis-spoke in the first line of your post. Never Mind.


Oops! Fast fingers got the best of me ... 

Off to fix the original!


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Vito the TiVo said:


> It gets real confusing as we used to refer to them as Galactica Boomer and Caprica Boomer, and now they have switched places. And then there's Caprica Six, Baltar Six, Pegasus Six and numerous other random ones of both.


That's why the sexist but descriptive terms Chief's Boomer and Helo's Boomer work better. Me, I'd like a Boomer of my own.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That's because I have pretty strong feelings about people who think that science fiction doesn't need science, and didn't want to violate forum rules against rudeness by expressing them.


It's even worse than writers feeling they don't need 'science' per se. No SF TV show is very science oriented and BSG is on the lesser side of TV sci-fi shows. Not the way I really like it, but I'm willing to play along in fantasy mode because of their imaginative concepts and usually good acting. It seems to me that the BSG writers are quite creative but somewhat lazy when it comes to plot details or thinking through a rational story arc based on the implications of their interesting creations - spylons, hybrids, cylon religion. They don't even offer up pseudoscience or other explanations for some plot quirks.


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## J4yDubs (Jul 3, 2002)

warrenevans said:


> or here is an idea. its a tv show who cares if the "science" in this show isn't 100%


I agree, but only to a point. It's sometimes lazy writing and just an easy out to say "it just happened, don't worry about how". BSG has definitely done a bit to much of this. Contrast that with a show like Star Trek where everything was explained as being a temporal anomaly or reversing the phase couplers. Somewhere in between is the happy medium, at least for me.

Just curious, but do you have a threshold? What if humans were all of a sudden able to fly through space without a suit, without explanation? Would that be OK for you?

John


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

philw1776 said:


> It's even worse than writers feeling they don't need 'science' per se. No SF TV show is very science oriented and BSG is on the lesser side of TV sci-fi shows. Not the way I really like it, but I'm willing to play along in fantasy mode because of their imaginative concepts and usually good acting. It seems to me that the BSG writers are quite creative but somewhat lazy when it comes to plot details or thinking through a rational story arc based on the implications of their interesting creations - spylons, hybrids, cylon religion. They don't even offer up pseudoscience or other explanations for some plot quirks.


Indeed. The reason I get so upset about BG is that at first, it SEEMED like it cared about the details. They seemed to have a plan, they seemed to be keeping the science under tight control (by not offering stupid explanations a la Star Trek, they held out hope that there really were intelligent explanations). And then it turned out that beneath the realistic facade, it was just another TV science-fantasy show. Granted, probably the best TV science-fantasy show I've ever seen, but a TV science-fantasy show nonetheless. And figuring that out was a MAJOR disappointment for me. So I find myself angry sometimes, in the way you can only be angry at something you love that lets you down. Even though you still love it. If you know what I mean.


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## ccooperev (Apr 24, 2001)

bryan314 said:


> I doubt Baltar is a Cylon. What need would there have been for 6 in the beginning? It would have been an unnecessary risk for the Cylons have two agents together trying to subvert the colonial defense systems. 6 was sent to seduce Baltar to gain access to the computer systems. It makes no sense for her to seduce another Cylon and later become a cyclon war hero as a result.


Ah, can we say Eve tempting Adam???


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

warrenevans said:


> "dose", "dosen't"


<Spelling Nazi>
I think you meant "does" and "doesn't".

"Dose" means "a measured portion of medicine taken at any one time."

"Dosen't" isn't a word.
</Spelling Nazi>


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## jwreiner (Aug 19, 2003)

quango said:


> It is highly unlikely that both Baltar and C-Six would (a) have exactly the same mental illness and (b) its manifestation would be the appearance of the other... suggesting either some some psychic link between the two at an unconscious level or the same outside influence (e.g. "the Cylon God") acting on both.


Lots of highly unlikely things happen in BSG (and in fiction, generally). I think the writers are just having fun with the symmetry and see it as a way to make lots of scenes more interesting to watch. I'd put the odds that there is more to it than that at 1%.


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## WeBoat (Nov 6, 2002)

JoeyJoJo said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again. Baltar is God.


Interesting.... I was just thinking that in the original show, Baltar left the fleet and became the Cylon commander. Might they be going this way here also?


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

WeBoat said:


> Interesting.... I was just thinking that in the original show, Baltar left the fleet and became the Cylon commander. Might they be going this way here also?


Only if they have the Dr. SmithBot saying "By Your Command"

Which brings up the question, do the new Centurian models speak? If not, how do they communicate with the "Skin Jobs"?


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## flyers088 (Apr 19, 2005)

JoeyJoJo said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again. Baltar is God.


Baltar is a syplon whose program has yet to kick in.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

flyers088 said:


> Baltar is a syplon whose program has yet to kick in.


But as someone else mentioned above, if they (the Cylons) had Baltar in such an extremely important position, why did they need Six?


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## tomr (Oct 2, 2000)

When Did they start calling the humanoid cylons "skin Jobs"? I don't remember hearing it before last episode. I guess the writer is a _Blade Runner_ fan. Unless of course it was used before that! I never read the book.


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## flyers088 (Apr 19, 2005)

BrettStah said:


> But as someone else mentioned above, if they (the Cylons) had Baltar in such an extremely important position, why did they need Six?


Six is there to keep him on course until his program kicks in.


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

Fantastic episode! The best of this entire season, if you ask me.

On the subject of recognizing new cylon models, I saw a black male model that I didn't remember seeing before. He was bald and had neatly trimmed beard and mustache. When did we meet him? Also, when the humans were looking through the binoculars, I swear I saw a Cylon that looked like Wash (Firefly)!


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## Warren (Oct 18, 2001)

J4yDubs said:


> Just curious, but do you have a threshold? What if humans were all of a sudden able to fly through space without a suit, without explanation? Would that be OK for you?
> 
> John


I wouldn't go that far.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Indeed. The reason I get so upset about BG is that at first, it SEEMED like it cared about the details. They seemed to have a plan, they seemed to be keeping the science under tight control (by not offering stupid explanations a la Star Trek, they held out hope that there really were intelligent explanations). And then it turned out that beneath the realistic facade, it was just another TV science-fantasy show. Granted, probably the best TV science-fantasy show I've ever seen, but a TV science-fantasy show nonetheless. And figuring that out was a MAJOR disappointment for me. So I find myself angry sometimes, in the way you can only be angry at something you love that lets you down. Even though you still love it. If you know what I mean.


Well said. I started out with low expectations for BSG and excepting the 3 episodes precceding Download, I've been pleasently surprised. These folks ARE creative. Just need ane member of the writing team to be a critical taskmaster to make it better. Too much hubris from early success?

One last bit on a related aspect...I don't like the complete 'make-it-up' pseudoscience babble explanations on the Trek series. Guess I'm hard to please.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

philw1776 said:


> One last bit on a related aspect...I don't like the complete 'make-it-up' pseudoscience babble explanations on the Trek series. Guess I'm hard to please.


It seems like Moore has intentionally made this series very anti-Star Trek [at least anti-TNG and beyond].

They've generally avoided using the random technobabble solutions that TNG and beyond used. See http://www.stamey.nu/Humor/ratedg.htm "Young Person's Guide to Writing Lines for the Character of Geordi LaForge!" Once you've seen that list (friend showed me years ago), it kinda makes you laugh each time Trek uses technobabble.

Besides that 
- the characters are far from perfect
- it's not always clear who's good and bad
- they've had so many bathroom scenes whereas in Trek, we still don't know where they go to the bathroom
- eps are a lot less self-contained than TNG


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

BeanMeScot said:


> Fantastic episode! The best of this entire season, if you ask me.
> 
> On the subject of recognizing new cylon models, I saw a black male model that I didn't remember seeing before. He was bald and had neatly trimmed beard and mustache. When did we meet him? Also, when the humans were looking through the binoculars, I swear I saw a Cylon that looked like Wash (Firefly)!


That was the doctor from the episode "The Farm."


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

Any episode that has Six and Sharon covered in goo :up: :up: :up: 

PJO1966 asked if the Centurions had voices- I thought I heard a very definite mechanical-sounding "Work" everytime the digging commenced, I took it to come from a Centurion.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

Jonathan_S said:


> And we finally picked up a couple more number designations, although I think it was a cheat to show a cafe with 40 or so Cylons and have all of them be from the models we know. (Well there was one female in the middle ground that might have been a new model during one of the pan shots, but you couldn't really get a great view).


One of the panning shots also showed a black man, albeit from behind.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

bryan314 said:


> I'm convinced more than ever there's a third party trying to influence both cylons and humans. In the Kobol episode Sharon said the humans didn't know who or what their gods were. I think a few 'gods' are still hanging around.


There's certainly no a priori reason why the Cylons adopted, rather than rejected, human-invented religion. Anybody know if Ron Moore has read Iain M. Banks? It would be consistent with the known facts if the Cylons were ruled by Minds. They would have the intelligence to pull off what you suggest.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

Jonathan_S said:


> Hard to tell. It looked like it was 'just' an overpressure wave at that point and the main danger was the glass shards it flung from the windows. It's not impossible that Six's body could have stopped enough of the glass (as she died) to keep Baltar alive. But possibly not.
> 
> That was a nicely done scene where it appeared for a second to confirm that Baltar was a Cylon, and then take that confidence away.
> 
> However, since 6 knew all 12 Cylon models, and appeared to actually care that Baltar was alive I'm going to have to assume that Baltar is actually human and not a Cylon.


But Six did mention she visited the "ruins" of Baltar's house. "Ruins" doesn't sound like just some blown-in windows to me.

But then Baltar did tell her he thought she made that story up, so I guess she could have made up the "ruins" part too.

Personally I think Baltar died in the blast. He wasn't a Cylon then, but he is now. They have to come up with new models every so often, don't they? I think all of the "skin job" models are based on real humans who died and had their original deaths kept secret.


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## Hersheytx (Feb 15, 2003)

quango said:


> This episode was clearly yet more evidence of the writers not planning ahead and just making things up as we go along. For example, in the middle of "33" or the mini, we should have seen Caprica 6 reborn---but noooo! How dare they use flashbacks to fill in backstory that would have been irrelevant to other episodes' plots!
> 
> And what's up with Anders still being alive? We haven't seen him in weeks... and yet he's running around Caprica, and he has some new team members we've never seen before. When did he recruit these people?
> 
> ...


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

drew2k said:


> Here's where something doesn't feel right: It feels for sure like Season 2 should be well beyond 10 weeks of storytelling. Wasn't there even a "one month later" or something graphic before Lee took command of the Pegasus, when he was promoted to major "in between" episodes?


Agreed; if anything the time between episodes seems to be stretching out, rather than shrinking.



> The only issue I had with this episode was about faking the death of Helo's baby. In a population of just under 50,000 - would there really be that many 1- or 2-day old dead babies that the President's aide has a "list" of them????


I doubt that everyone on the list had a dead baby; probably they were just people who'd be willing to adopt, no questions asked. But the fact that this one _did_ have one was very convenient...


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## jwjody (Dec 7, 2002)

I think I said back in Season 1 that I thought Baltar was the "God" that the Spylons speak of. I still think that's the possibility. No evidence but with 6 haunting Baltar then Baltar haunting 6 I get the idea of someone trying to play both sides to their own advantage.

Anyway...

I thought this was a great episode. So much better than the previous eps. I hope the rest of the season stays like this.

J


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## ethos42 (Jun 2, 2005)

Anyone have any HD Shots of the human form Cylons sitting around the cafe? I know I saw at least one that has not been revealed to us in the background (Big bald black guy, but he was facing away).

It might turn up a few surprises if we could get some decent screenshots.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

dtivouser said:


> Was it my imagination or is Sharon's apartment identical to Starbucks? Military housing maybe?
> 
> When they were releasing the ashes the thought crossed my mind that the (fake) baby was "boxed" like Sharon expected to be. Hmm.


I thought the same thing. It did look very similar.


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

ethos42 said:


> Anyone have any HD Shots of the human form Cylons sitting around the cafe? I know I saw at least one that has not been revealed to us in the background (Big bald black guy, but he was facing away).


Sorry, I'm pretty sure that was a stand-in for "Dr. Cylon", the black doctor from when Starbuck was on Caprica. BTW, that probably goes for the "Wash" cylon that someone mentioned before (stand-in for Leoben?). As was previously discussed, they had to get stand-ins for a couple of the cylon actors who were either too expensive or unavailable.


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## jwjody (Dec 7, 2002)

One of the interesting things to me is that not all of the Spylons get the memory downloads. So if you believe experiences can make you a totally different person then there's a whole society of Spylons with completely different personalities that just happen to look a like.

Before Baltar told Pegasus 6 who he was she recognized him. I thought that was from the memory download but I guess not now.

And you have the Sharon that is now on Caprica that has/had feelings for Chief so now him and Helo get their own Sharon!

J


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## JoeyJoJo (Sep 29, 2003)

I know that there wasnt much indication of this in the episode, but Im guessing that the plan to hide the Cylon baby wasnt put in place AFTER the baby was born. As someone mentioned, it would be unlikely that they would get a stand-in baby at exactly the right moment, and they made it a point to say the baby was premature and its lungs werent developed, but then were able to take the baby out of ICU and just give it to the colonial mother.

My hunch is that Rosalyn is VERY suspicious of Gaius now, and that she and Adama had this plan in place before the first meeting in the episode. The meeting was simply to send Gaius thinking in the wrong direction.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

How does the President know that the woman she gave Sharon's baby to isn't a Cylon? 

Was one of the cars in the Caprica parking lot a Citroen?

I'm leaning towards the "Baltar is a Spylon" camp.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Sorry, where did you come to the conclusion that Baltar's house was near the epicenter of the nuclear explosion? Or if that isn't your supposition, where do you get this notion that he would be dead if he was exposed at all? Surveys have shown that 2-4km was far enough so that most people in the japanese nuclear explosions suffered only slight radiation effects. We have seen Helo use shots to counter the residual radiation.

Walls often reduced the effects. Since his house did not combust, we can assume that he was not at the epicenter. Six standing in front of him plus being reasonably far away is explanation enough if he was 4km away and had access to shots. The explosion was not blindingly bright in the miniseries. It looked like clouds of smoke coming at them, similar to what buildings experienced when the two towers collapsed on 9/11. That could have been the effects of wind as air returned quickly towards the epicenter, or it could just be from buildings nearby collapsing.

Of course, let's not forget the most important thought, which is maybe they intentionally placed the bomb so that he would live.

I'm more doubtful of the so-called science that is being touted here to dispute the science of the show... I'm tired of people coming into BSG threads to crap on science using dubious science themselves.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

dcheesi said:


> Agreed; if anything the time between episodes seems to be stretching out, rather than shrinking.
> 
> I doubt that everyone on the list had a dead baby; probably they were just people who'd be willing to adopt, no questions asked. But the fact that this one _did_ have one was very convenient...


You know, I think many of you are forgettign that the pres authorized an abortion just last episode. That's where the baby came from.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

You are saying the prez authorized a 3rd trimester abortion?


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> You are saying the prez authorized a 3rd trimester abortion?


Yes, and I also think they had this in mind when they allowed it.


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

First off, I agree with those who said this has been the best episode of the second half of season 2. :up: :up: :up: I'm in the camp that the last three episodes were second rate. Hope they can keep this quality coming for the next couple weeks.



jwjody said:


> I think I said back in Season 1 that I thought Baltar was the "God" that the Spylons speak of. I still think that's the possibility.


Didn't Six try to convince him he was God? That's what I remember.

I have to admit I'm totally confused as to which Six and Sharon were reincarnated on the planet. The going back and forth in time confused me at first. I was SO sure this Sharon was the one who came back from Helio and then got pregnant. But by the end of the episode, it was clear that wasn't the case.

Loved that Baltar is now "haunting" Six and I agree it's more of a conscience thing rather than chip inplant. Best scene was when he was making martinis and handed her one and then when she went to take it, there was nothing there. That cracked me up!

You just KNEW the President wasn't going to kill the baby. But I did think for a couple minutes Dr. Caudle had doublecrossed her and killed it himself since he was so against taking it away from Sharon. But then I realized the dead baby was a plant. Too bad the President left Caudle holding to bag and dealing with the Wrath of Sharon. 

I think the fact that Anders was still alive now leaves it open for him to reunited with Starbuck eventually. Not that I like that combination, but it's obviously something the writers are interested in pursuing.

And what was the deal in the previews where they said "world premiere" or something like that for next week? Anybody else catch that? I don't see that as a spoiler, so I hope no one gets upset about me mentioning it.

Cheryl


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Stormspace said:


> You know, I think many of you are forgettign that the pres authorized an abortion just last episode. That's where the baby came from.


Well, technically she just rigged her proclamation making abortion illegal so it didn't apply to that particular abortion. Slightly different from authorizing the abortion.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

appleye1 said:


> But Six did mention she visited the "ruins" of Baltar's house. "Ruins" doesn't sound like just some blown-in windows to me.
> 
> But then Baltar did tell her he thought she made that story up, so I guess she could have made up the "ruins" part too.
> 
> Personally I think Baltar died in the blast. He wasn't a Cylon then, but he is now. They have to come up with new models every so often, don't they? I think all of the "skin job" models are based on real humans who died and had their original deaths kept secret.


The current podcast also said that there was a scene written for this episode that took place in the ruins of the house. They cut it because (like a lot of things) they didn't have the resources to create that setting for a brief scene.

There was a lot of stuff originally in this episode that got cut.

Oh, and by the way, about the blast that destroyed the house, with all the nukes hitting, how do we know for sure that the blast that took out the window was the same one that destroyed the house? I suppose it's in the realm of possibility that a subsequent blast at a later time was closer to the house.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

appleye1 said:


> But Six did mention she visited the "ruins" of Baltar's house. "Ruins" doesn't sound like just some blown-in windows to me.
> 
> But then Baltar did tell her he thought she made that story up, so I guess she could have made up the "ruins" part too.


The podcast mentions a scene where Six and Boomer visit the ruins of Baltar's house. It had to be cut to come in under budget, and instead they just cut in flashbacks of Six and Baltar in the house.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Jonathan_S said:


> Well, technically she just rigged her proclamation making abortion illegal so it didn't apply to that particular abortion. Slightly different from authorizing the abortion.


That's just splitting hairs. She authorized it in allowing it to happen prior to her proclamation. However I think she knew she'd need the unborn fetus later when Sharon had her baby. Getting it to be roughly the same age would have been the tough part, but there are so many variables if that is what did happen then the writers certainly pulled out a pocket franistan to accomplish it.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

speedcouch said:


> And what was the deal in the previews where they said "world premiere" or something like that for next week? Anybody else catch that? I don't see that as a spoiler, so I hope no one gets upset about me mentioning it.
> 
> Cheryl


For TV marketing "world premiere" just means "big exciting episode that you can't miss" (that hasn't aired anywhere yet)

My TiVo cut off the previews but I did hear that and I assumed it just referred to next week being the start of the 2-part (and 2-week) season finale in which the following week's part two is 90-minutes.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> I'm tired of people coming into BSG threads to crap on science using dubious science themselves.


But your science is dubious, too.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> Was one of the cars in the Caprica parking lot a Citroen?


Another point addressed in the podcast. Cars are a difficult thing to deal with. Even though these people are human, and are meant to look and act like us, things that are _too _ specific to earth (like showing what is clearly a Ford or a Chevy) will take you out of the moment too much.

In the case of Starbuck's car (a Hummer) in a previous episode, they felt that it was at least sort of a generically military looking vehicle. In the case of the regular cars of cilvilians, since there is no budget to create "space cars" and our models are too recognizable, they decided to use European models. That way, (at least here in the States) most people wouldn't recognize them as cars we see. They would look like cars, but just a little "off." A little different.


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Very good episode, so far the best of the second half of season 2 - but unlike the majority of you, I've really enjoyed the last several episodes as well. A bit over-focused on Apollo and Starbuck (where IS Chief Tyrol anyway?) but still enjoyable. I'm hopeful that some of the discordant pieces of the last few episodes will have a payoff in the season finale episodes.

This did have some magic those ep's did not. It certainly sets up divergent paths for Caprica 6 and Baltar. It would be most interesting to have them reunite, only for Caprica 6 to reject Baltar as being too "eeeeeevil" as he's becoming more manipulative and she's becoming more "human".

Was glad to see the discordance between religious faith/God and genocide being addressed.

So the moral of the story, humans and cylons, is don't copulate too much unless you 1) want a baby, or 2) want to have a mental clone of your lover imprinted into your brain!


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> Of course, let's not forget the most important thought, which is maybe they intentionally placed the bomb so that he would live.


I thought that they didn't intend for him to live, but that Six decided to save him at the last moment. I think we may be intended to view that as something of a promethean act. Not that she was acting for all of humanity at that moment, but that by acting out of love of one human, the seed was planted for her to question the Cylon treatment of all humans.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Fool Me Twice said:


> I thought that they didn't intend for him to live, but that Six decided to save him at the last moment. I think we may be intended to view that as something of a promethean act. Not that she was acting for all of humanity at that moment, but that by acting out of love of one human, the seed was planted for her to question the Cylon treatment of all humans.


I view it that way too, but it is just speculation. It is also possible that they wanted him to live for various reasons. They did seem to actively try to save him in later episodes.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Stormspace said:


> That's just splitting hairs. She authorized it in allowing it to happen prior to her proclamation.


I think it is an important splitting of hairs. You only authorize something when the default 'action' if you do nothing is that that something doesn't happen. Authorizing an event is granting permission for something that is otherwise not allowed.

However by the Colonial law (prior to Roslins announcement) that abortion was legal. Had Roslin taken no action the abortion would have occured, and would have been legal. 
She in no way authorized it. However she did permit it, when she chose not to use her power to forbid it, but the power to forbid isn't the same as authorizing.


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

cwoody222 said:


> For TV marketing "world premiere" just means "big exciting episode that you can't miss" (that hasn't aired anywhere yet)
> 
> My TiVo cut off the previews but I did hear that and I assumed it just referred to next week being the start of the 2-part (and 2-week) season finale in which the following week's part two is 90-minutes.


Thanks for the explanation. I don't watch that much commercial TV to be up on all their gimmicks, I guess. 

Cheryl


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

dcheesi said:


> Agreed; if anything the time between episodes seems to be stretching out, rather than shrinking.
> 
> I doubt that everyone on the list had a dead baby; probably they were just people who'd be willing to adopt, no questions asked. But the fact that this one _did_ have one was very convenient...


It would make much more sense to think that the list was of candidates to adopt, but why would the decision to choose a new mother be left up to he doctor? See, I still think the list was of candidates to stand-in as Helo's baby. I think the president and her aide already knew who was going to adopt, they just needed the doctor to find an appropriate "stand-in" baby to make the swich so Helo and Sharon would think the baby died.


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## marrone (Oct 11, 2001)

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet (unless I missed it).

They showed a couple of resurrection or downloading scenes.

Granted these were flashbacks, so it took place a little while back.

But is that happening anymore, considering the resurrection ship was blown to bits?
Or is there a resurrection "base" on caprica, thereby making more than one resurrection point, and the fleet only managed to destroy one of them?

Because it didn't seem like any of the cylons on Caprice were concerned that the resurrection ship was destroyed.

-Mike


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## jwjody (Dec 7, 2002)

marrone said:


> One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet (unless I missed it).
> 
> They showed a couple of resurrection or downloading scenes.
> 
> ...


I don't think the ship was the only resurrection device they have. I'm pretty sure Sharon said something about the Cylons being so far away they couldn't download that's why the ship was created.

J


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

jwjody said:


> I don't think the ship was the only resurrection device they have. I'm pretty sure Sharon said something about the Cylons being so far away they couldn't download that's why the ship was created.
> 
> J


Isn't it cool how they can replicate a scale model of new ships quickly for use on their tactical board? It's a small thing, but I doubt someone is working off camera with a knife and piece of wood to make those.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Wouldn't Sharon have been reborn before the res ship was destroyed? I thought they destroyed it after she was shot.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

I was also under the impression both of the resurrections we saw took place well before the humans destroyed the Resurrection Ship.

What isn't yet clear is:

Do they absolutely need the ship?
Is there only one ship?
Are Cylons always reborn immediately following their death?
Do all the Cylons (especially the ones on Caprica) know the ship was destroyed?


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## J4yDubs (Jul 3, 2002)

warrenevans said:


> I wouldn't go that far.


So the point being is that different people have different levels of "suspended belief". Telling someone "its a TV show" doesn't cut it.

Back on topic...

I just re-watched "Flight of the Phoenix" (in HD) last night. In it Helo asked Sharon (his Sharon) if she remembered the times with Chief Tyrol. She said yes, even though she was on Caprica (or Cylon homebase; where ever that is). That doesn't jive with "Downloaded" in that they are showing that the spylons are individuals and not shared memories. At least that's how I took it. How else would they keep their plan secret until 3 was reborn.

John


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

J4yDubs said:


> I just re-watched "Flight of the Phoenix" (in HD) last night. In it Helo asked Sharon (his Sharon) if she remembered the times with Chief Tyrol. She said yes, even though she was on Caprica (or Cylon homebase; where ever that is). That doesn't jive with "Downloaded" in that they are showing that the spylons are individuals and not shared memories. At least that's how I took it. How else would they keep their plan secret until 3 was reborn.
> 
> John


Perhaps Helo's Sharon was lying in order to convince Helo she was who she said she was and to get him to fall in love with her (which was her mission... and then to have his baby).

Or maybe Cylon higher-intelligence (or their God) can control their memories and gave her those ones (and maybe more) to help her complete her mission.


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## danieljanderson (Nov 19, 2002)

When the recon was done and we saw the resurrection ship, did we not we see some sixes in stasis? If so, when a Cylon is reborn, do they take them out of the jello and put them in stasis until they need them?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Was Sharon with the chief before the invasion? I thought so but could be incorrect. If so then it's possible.


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## J4yDubs (Jul 3, 2002)

cwoody222 said:


> Perhaps Helo's Sharon was lying in order to convince Helo she was who she said she was and to get him to fall in love with her (which was her mission... and then to have his baby).


Good point. I keep forgetting that they might be lying. This scene was after the baby making though. The Chief even came to see her (in jail) at the end, so I'm not sure she was lying.



> Or maybe Cylon higher-intelligence (or their God) can control their memories and gave her those ones (and maybe more) to help her complete her mission.


I hope this isn't true. I think it would ruin BSG for me.

John


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

J4yDubs said:


> I just re-watched "Flight of the Phoenix" (in HD) last night. In it Helo asked Sharon (his Sharon) if she remembered the times with Chief Tyrol. She said yes, even though she was on Caprica (or Cylon homebase; where ever that is). That doesn't jive with "Downloaded" in that they are showing that the spylons are individuals and not shared memories. At least that's how I took it. How else would they keep their plan secret until 3 was reborn.





cwoody222 said:


> Perhaps Helo's Sharon was lying in order to convince Helo she was who she said she was and to get him to fall in love with her (which was her mission... and then to have his baby).


There's more than that that lying wouldn't explain...Remember when Adama looked at Galactica Boomer's corpse in the morgue and asked it "why" and then when he saw Caprica Boomer on Kobol she said, "you aked why..." Or something like that.

They indicated a connection that shouldn't exist based on all this downloading stuff.


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## Cue-Ball (Oct 8, 2002)

cwoody222 said:


> What isn't yet clear is:
> 
> Do they absolutely need the ship?


I think it's pretty clear that the ship is only needed out to a certain distance. I view it as a network repeater. 


> Is there only one ship?


Now that we don't know. But we must assume that there is only one. The supposed reason for the Cylons backing down of late is because they don't want to "die". If there were a second resurrection ship in the vicinity, this fear wouldn't be there. Of course, there could always be another being built, in another location, or even locally. If the latter were true then the Cylons would be simply bluffing, i guess. <shrug>


> Are Cylons always reborn immediately following their death?


No. When they shot Xena-lon this episode they specifically said that it would take her at least 36 hours to be downloaded because she was far back in the queue of dead cylons (all the people from the cafe died first). So it apparently takes time for the data to be written to a new body. Though getting the memories back to a resurrection facility is either instantaneous or they stream all the memories all the time (so long as they're within range).


> Do all the Cylons (especially the ones on Caprica) know the ship was destroyed?


We don't know for sure, but I would assume it would be common knowledge, unless there's some sort of Cylon council or military chain that would not want the general populace to know about it. This one is tricky because we still don't really know how their society works. They seem to have some of the traits of "hive mind" beings, yet at the same time they are all individuals with differing memories.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

hefe said:


> There's more than that that lying wouldn't explain...Remember when Adama looked at Galactica Boomer's corpse in the morgue and asked it "why" and then when he saw Caprica Boomer on Kobol she said, "you aked why..." Or something like that.


Moore addressed this in the podcast. Apparently it was not related, just something fun they thought they'd throw in. I don't agree with it and think it was a bad move. If they do it again however it will no longer be a coincidence.


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## Cue-Ball (Oct 8, 2002)

hefe said:


> There's more than that that lying wouldn't explain...Remember when Adama looked at Galactica Boomer's corpse in the morgue and asked it "why" and then when he saw Caprica Boomer on Kobol she said, "you aked why..." Or something like that.
> 
> They indicated a connection that shouldn't exist based on all this downloading stuff.


I think you're mixing up two different things. When Sharon talked to Adama about "you asked why" she was referring to his speech in the miniseries when they were decomissioning the ship, not his talking to the dead Sharon. And Adama was asking her that when he was talking to her, probing for information. It took place on Galactica, not Kobol.


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## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

> I just re-watched "Flight of the Phoenix" (in HD) last night. In it Helo asked Sharon (his Sharon) if she remembered the times with Chief Tyrol. She said yes, even though she was on Caprica (or Cylon homebase; where ever that is). That doesn't jive with "Downloaded" in that they are showing that the spylons are individuals and not shared memories. At least that's how I took it. How else would they keep their plan secret until 3 was reborn.


I was wondering if anyone else was going to pick this up in this thread. The same thought occured to me last night when I was watching. The way it was originally presented, I honestly don't think the Sharon was lying about knowing that stuff, and yet now we have evidence to counter whether she should know anything about the previous relationship of the Sharon on Galactica. Personally, I think it's a goof by the writers, or they changed their minds partway through on how they want the downloaded memories to work.

I'm also puzzled by why the original Galactica Sharon would have been resurrected back on capricorn, if the resurrection ship was close by. I suppose they could have transported her after resurrection and discovering she was problemetic, but it's definitely a little odd there.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Stormspace said:


> Moore addressed this in the podcast. Apparently it was not related, just something fun they thought they'd throw in. I don't agree with it and think it was a bad move. If they do it again however it will no longer be a coincidence.


He did kind of blow it off at the time, but if they're going to have several instances of one individual cylon being aware of the experience of another, then they can't really backtrack and later say it's unpossible...that would be sloppy writing, and we know that they wouldn't... oh, wait...


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

There is one possibility. Part of the process the cylons call boxing could include an upload to all types of that model, or possibly a new os for use in creating new cylons. 

So, in the case of Sharon, they box her and now all new Sharon's that are created have her abilities and memories.


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## darthrsg (Jul 25, 2005)

having not read any of the above threads, i dont know about you guys, but that is a BSG episode!


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I thought they explicitly stated that boxing was more or less putting you into cold storage forever...


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

hefe said:


> There's more than that that lying wouldn't explain...Remember when Adama looked at Galactica Boomer's corpse in the morgue and asked it "why" and then when he saw Caprica Boomer on Kobol she said, "you aked why..." Or something like that.
> 
> They indicated a connection that shouldn't exist based on all this downloading stuff.


I did the exact same thing: Watched the new SD "Downloaded" and the HD "Flight of the Phoenix" on the same night.

Sounds like a plot hole to me. I thought so as I watched last night.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> I thought they explicitly stated that boxing was more or less putting you into cold storage forever...


It's also possible that all boxing does is remove any individuality from the cylon, effectively giving all cylons the benefit of their experience. So, in the case of these too that are apparently envied by all the others they would gain the same experience and skills learned and be a strong motivation for boxing them. However as you say if could also be a way to remove bad influences from society.


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

I think this episode actually clarifies the Sharon situation. It's been obvious since Season 1 that G-Boomer and C-Boomer shared at least some memories (enough to fool Helo). At the same time, the various 6's we've seen didn't seem to even know about C-6's relationship with Baltar. So the mystery was, why don't they share memories more often? This episode gives us the answer: the other cylon instances are afraid of mental "contamination" from the field agents. (My guess is that they worry about diluting their individual "souls" as well, but that's just a theory.) So they only share memories when it's absolutely necessary to accomplish their goals.


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## chewbaccad (Feb 16, 2005)

I agree with Cheesi's thought process here... The Spylons are capable of sharing memories, but don't unless the information is relevant specifically to their mission. Helo Sharon would NEED Chief Sharon's memory in order to be convincing to Helo... whereas most of the other Spylons wouldn't want the individual contamination that would make their mission harder (Godfrey).

Oh yeah, frakkin' awesome episode. Though I had to wonder who the SEXYMOM was...


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Topher5000 said:


> I can understand Sharon being in shackles & 6 not. 6 knew she was a Cylon all along & Sharon was programmed to be a human.


But not all the Sharons think they're human. Helo's Sharon didn't. How did they know that this Sharon was the Chief's Sharon?


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Isn't this the Sharon that flew a ship with a nuke into a Cylon ship, had that disconcerting meeting with the naked Sharons, and then flew off, blowing up the ship, and then shooting Adama?

Seems like if word of her blowing up the ship with a nuke spread, as it probably would have, they'd be concerned about her.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

BrettStah said:


> Seems like if word of her blowing up the ship with a nuke spread, as it probably would have, they'd be concerned about her.


Unless it was all part of The Plan...


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

danieljanderson said:


> When the recon was done and we saw the resurrection ship, did we not we see some sixes in stasis? If so, when a Cylon is reborn, do they take them out of the jello and put them in stasis until they need them?


I assumed it worked the other way around: they have "blanks" in stasis and when they need to download they stick them in the jello and download their memories.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

MMMMM....... Cylon jello.


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## darthrsg (Jul 25, 2005)

BrettStah said:


> MMMMM....... Cylon jello.


 i would love to wake up surrounded by 6's.


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## J4yDubs (Jul 3, 2002)

darthrsg said:


> i would love to wake up surrounded by 6's.


in jello...

John


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

'Boxing' Cylons, just like they 'Boxed' Boxey's character! 

The first Cylons that got 'Boxed'


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

PJO1966 said:


> I was surprised that they gave the baby to someone who didn't know that it was half-Cylon. Wouldn't that pose problems when their spine starts glowing?


Personally, I have managed to live my life without giving my parents the opportunity to see my spine glowing. I think the child will sense that there are some things to keep private.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

J4yDubs said:


> Up to this point [meaning the last few episodes I take it] it felt like filler episodes that didn't add much to the story.


I think you have to take a serious breather every once in awhile, even in a series that has established underlying plot progression as such a relatively high priority.

The Fugitive defined an ideal pattern: establish an interesting character(s) and premise, then provide good stories for them to show their wares. Adavancing the arc is a minor priority and will tend to be concentrated in an occasional episode.

Lost in its first wonderful season, for example, followed that pattern very nicely. It has since lost it.

BG has also chosen a more plot-advancing, mini-series-type of style, and that's fine. But it will need breathers, stand-alone episodes, both to provide viewer relief from the intense pace and allow the artists to get their bearings.

Problem with the last few weeks of BG (last week less so) is simply that the episodes weren't very good.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Stormspace said:


> You know, I think many of you are forgettign that the pres authorized an abortion just last episode. That's where the baby came from.


That's what I guessed too after thinking about it for awhile (but before seeing your post). The only thing is that I wondered about was whether the aborted baby from that ep would've looked enough alike Sharon's. Wouldn't Helo or Sharon notice something physically different?


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

darthrsg said:


> i would love to wake up surrounded by 6's.


For me, I'd love to be surrounded by Sharons.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

What humans actually know that the Cylon spines glow during sex? I don't think it's clear that any of them do.


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## Narkul (Nov 7, 2004)

BrettStah said:


> What humans actually know that the Cylon spines glow during sex? I don't think it's clear that any of them do.


When the fleet discovers this, spylon detection will never be the same again.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Obviously some people on the pegasus would know this since they assaulted their 6 right?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Narkul said:


> When the fleet discovers this, spylon detection will never be the same again.


The ability to fake it will become highly prized among Spylon operatives...


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> Obviously some people on the pegasus would know this since they assaulted their 6 right?


Something tells me that her reaction was different, given the circumstances. I'm guessing that she has to be enjoying it, or at least actively participating, before the glow starts. In any case, I wouldn't put too much into the glow as a plot device, since it's basically just a "cool effect" that they threw in early on...


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## VinceA (May 13, 2002)

If it (glowing spine) happens at the moment of orgasm, the Six on Pegasus probably wouldn't ever reach that moment since she didn't seem to enjoy the fact that she was being violated.


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## ravonaf (Sep 2, 2003)

BrettStah said:


> But as someone else mentioned above, if they (the Cylons) had Baltar in such an extremely important position, why did they need Six?


Because they want to force her to evolve by falling in love with someone she thinks is human. Sounds plausable to me. Baltar could simple be a secret #13 that none of the other skinjobs know about.


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The ability to fake it will become highly prized among Spylon operatives...


But it will provide motivation for Baltar to resurrect his cylon detection program.

At least for some.

"Gaius, I want you to test Adama first"


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Ah yes, the Doggy Style Cylon Detection Method...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

I wouldn't think that would make Adama light up even if he is a cylon...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

hefe said:


> I wouldn't think that would make Adama light up even if he is a cylon...


But how well do we REALLY know the good Admiral?


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## Mars Rocket (Mar 24, 2000)

Is there any doubt who the SEXYMOM is?










I'll leave it to others to find sexier, yet SFW pictures of her.


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## SparkleMotion (Feb 2, 2004)

Actually the friend I watched this episode with said it applied to her. It also looked a bit like an Aussie or NZ plate, didn't it?


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## Tangent (Feb 25, 2005)

Stormspace said:


> You know, I think many of you are forgettign that the pres authorized an abortion just last episode. That's where the baby came from.


Then why did the new adoptive mom say something to the effect of "when I lost mine I didn't know what I'd do". I'm betting she was having a baby that she wanted but that died for one reason or another. They just pulled a little switharoo letting Helo and Boomer think the dead one was theirs while giving the actual mother of the dead baby a consolation prize. "Since you're baby died, here, take this one". This way not only do we have the dead baby to work with, but we have a mother returning to the fleet that everybody saw go to the Galactica ready to give birth. No awkward questions about where she got the baby. (Although I think it _was_ the black-market shopping mall she was returned to, maybe they'd just assume she bought it...)


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## darthrsg (Jul 25, 2005)

BrettStah said:


> What humans actually know that the Cylon spines glow during sex? I don't think it's clear that any of them do.


 sex or orgasm?


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

What's up with Lucy Lawless' inconsistent accent? A schizophrenic director? One minute she's Kiwi the next she's American.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

tivogurl said:


> What's up with Lucy Lawless' inconsistent accent? A schizophrenic director? One minute she's Kiwi the next she's American.


I didn't really pay too much attention bit if you mean one version of her is with accent and another different character also played by her is without one, I'd call that impressive acting. If you mean same character, that sounds like a glitch. Replace power supply, add additional cooling, reboot.


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## mrmike (May 2, 2001)

tivogurl said:


> What's up with Lucy Lawless' inconsistent accent? A schizophrenic director? One minute she's Kiwi the next she's American.


She naturally has a Kiwi accent, but she did her own ADR in an American accent for Xena. Maybe she can't keep 'em straight?


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

mrmike said:


> She naturally has a Kiwi accent, but she did her own ADR in an American accent for Xena.


Really? I guess even her "american" accent sounds Kiwi to me, which is probably why I didn't notice anything here...


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

Vito the TiVo said:


> It gets real confusing as we used to refer to them as Galactica Boomer and Caprica Boomer, and now they have switched places. And then there's Caprica Six, Baltar Six, Pegasus Six and numerous other random ones of both.


I've just started watching the show recently, and the Sharons confuse me, since both of them in this episode have ties to Galactica. Can someone please give me a quick Sharon rundown?


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

MMMMMM..... Sharon rubdown.

(Oh, ru*n*down. Sorry.)


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

There are 3 Sharon's of note. The first was in the pilot and the first season. I call her "Boomer". She is the Sharon that shot Adama.

There was the Sharon that Helo met on Caprica and brought back with him to Galactica with Starbuck. I call her Sharon. 

There is now a reincarnated version of Boomer living on Caprica because she (the original Boomer) was shot and killed while being transfer to a cell (?) on Galactica.

In your post you mention having just started to watch the show. As you saw this episode (or perhaps have no problem being spoiled by the discussion here), I hope I haven't ruined anything for you regarding this information. I hightly recommend picking up the first season on DVD. It is excellent and will help you to understand the "Sharon Situation" more.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

Sirius Black said:


> There are 3 Sharon's of note. The first was in the pilot and the first season. I call her "Boomer". She is the Sharon that shot Adama.
> 
> There was the Sharon that Helo met on Caprica and brought back with him to Galactica with Starbuck. I call her Sharon.
> 
> There is now a reincarnated version of Boomer living on Caprica because she (the original Boomer) was shot and killed while being transfer to a cell (?) on Galactica.


Thanks, that helps. I didn't get that they switched places, so I was very confused!

So Boomer was living on Galactica, thinking she was a human. Her programming kicked in, she shot Adamo, and was being imprisoned when she was killed?

Regarding the reincarnation ship that was destroyed - if you reincarnate using the ship, are you reborn on the ship? Or do all rebirths happen on Caprica? Because wouldn't Boomer have been reincarnated using the ship?

(lol @ the rubdown post)


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Sirius Black said:


> The first was in the pilot and the first season. I call her "Boomer".


And let's not forget that Boomer saw a whole shipload of (naked) Sharons before she shot Adama...


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> And let's not forget that Boomer saw a whole shipload of (naked) Sharons before she shot Adama...


Nope can't forget that.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Amnesia said:


> And let's not forget


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Amnesia said:


> And let's not forget that Boomer saw a whole shipload of (naked) Sharons before she shot Adama...


No, we certainly can't forget that what with the reminder in the opening credits every week. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining or anything.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

Reviving an old thread.

I just watched this episode. I wait till the show comes to Universal HD.

This was the best episode. The 6 chick and the asian girl having feelings for humans is a great twist to the show. The fact that 6 sees the doctor just like he sees her is great.

Awesome show!!!


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