# Boston Globe Tive Premiere Review



## gostan (Oct 6, 2002)

Tivo Premiere Isn't The Ultimate, But It's In The Running
http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2012/07/11/most-capable-cable-box/oXcr3N8VEwcdzoTUfXKgwK/story.html


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Gets trashed in the comments as being to expensive. I do agree with critics saying WTF were they thinking this far into the 21st century by requiring external Wi-Fi adapter clutter?


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

philw1776 said:


> Gets trashed in the comments as being to expensive. I do agree with critics saying WTF were they thinking this far into the 21st century by requiring external Wi-Fi adapter clutter?


I dont know any cable boxes with built in wifi. The new Direct TV ones dont either and people have been screaming for years


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> Gets trashed in the comments as being to expensive. I do agree with critics saying WTF were they thinking this far into the 21st century by requiring external Wi-Fi adapter clutter?


How many desktop computers come with built-in wifi? Personally, I say WTF are people thinking running a fixed device on wifi.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> How many desktop computers come with built-in wifi? Personally, I say WTF are people thinking running a fixed device on wifi.


They're thinking that the router is in a different room in the house than the audio visual equipment with the TiVo. "They" don't want to drill holes in walls to run an ethernet cable. That's SO nineties.


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## lillevig (Dec 7, 2010)

I'm fine with having the options on the Tivo. Too often I've found built-in wireless to be lacking range. With the Tivos I can use ethernet, wireless adapter, or wireless bridge.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> They're thinking that the router is in a different room in the house than the audio visual equipment with the TiVo. "They" don't want to drill holes in walls to run an ethernet cable. That's SO nineties.


You do know that cable can be run along baseboards and door-frames, don't you?


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## farmermac (Jan 31, 2012)

its a little cheap not to include built in wifi antenna which would cost Tivo a few bucks. Its pretty clear Tivo wants to get the extra $90 on the N adapter


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

farmermac said:


> *its a little cheap *not to include built in wifi antenna which would cost Tivo a few bucks. Its pretty clear Tivo wants to get the extra $90 on the N adapter


Yup. The IC and antenna would add single digit $ to the product cost. You qualify for a marketing job!
It's not the overpriced extra item $ for me; it's the extra device, wires and AC plug.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

The worst part of this review is the THREE HOURS it took a COMCAST TECHNICIAN to install the cable card! Tivo/Comcast clearly spent some money on this rollout. There are billboards for it EVERYWHERE. You would think they would have spent a few bucks to train their staff.

Here is the same article with a different title.

*Comcast's TiVo isn't the ultimate, but it's close*

http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2012/07/12/a_most_capable_cable_box/


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

compnurd said:


> I dont know any cable boxes with built in wifi. The new Direct TV ones dont either and people have been screaming for years


But a cable box doesn't NEED WiFi, since they don't have OTT services.



lpwcomp said:


> How many desktop computers come with built-in wifi? Personally, I say WTF are people thinking running a fixed device on wifi.


Many Macs have built in wifi. (I know, because the Mac Pro I'm typing on DOESN'T, so Airdrop doesn't work with other computers without setting a special default.)


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

aadam101 said:


> The worst part of this review is the THREE HOURS it took a COMCAST TECHNICIAN to install the cable card! Tivo/Comcast clearly spent some money on this rollout. There are billboards for it EVERYWHERE. You would think they would have spent a few bucks to train their staff.
> 
> Here is the same article with a different title.
> 
> ...


That's because Bray didn't do the tedious TiVo setup himself first as TiVo recommends before installing the cable card. The device spends a while downloading and arranging its files all the while with the tech just waiting. Admitedly 3 hours is bit long. In my case, I inserted the card, called Comcast giving them the #s and the tech presumably in India had me going in under 10 minutes.


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## farmermac (Jan 31, 2012)

philw1776 said:


> Yup. The IC and antenna would add single digit $ to the product cost. You qualify for a marketing job!
> It's not the overpriced extra item $ for me; it's the extra device, wires and AC plug.


Not sure what you're getting at but we're making the same point. We agree having a clustertuck solution to wifi like tivo has makes them look cheap, esp when a box w/ lifetime costs $900 retail...All $300 notebooks have wifi built in


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

farmermac said:


> Not sure what you're getting at but we're making the same point. We agree having a clustertuck solution to wifi like tivo has makes them look cheap, esp when a box w/ lifetime costs $900 retail...All $300 notebooks have wifi built in


Point being you spotted the marketing ploy


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

lpwcomp said:


> How many desktop computers come with built-in wifi? Personally, I say WTF are people thinking running a fixed device on wifi.


A lot of blu ray players. smart tvs, gaming consoles,tablets, smart phones and content devices like logitech revue and Roku have wifi built in. That's what they were thinking.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

mattack said:


> Many Macs have built in wifi. (I know, because the Mac Pro I'm typing on DOESN'T, so Airdrop doesn't work with other computers without setting a special default.)


All they did was start including an Airport Extreme card in the build. They didn't have to change the MB. The TiVo equivalent would be to include a wifi adapter.

Has TiVo ever included questions about integrated wifi in any of their surveys? Maybe someone should set-up a TCF survey.

More to the point though - has anyone ever made a TiVo purchase decision based on whether or not it had integrated wifi? Would TiVo recover the design, development, and testing costs?

If they ever do add integrated wifi, I would definitely want it disabled by default.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Has anyone made a purchase decision? I'm not sure, it's probably not THAT big of an issue, but at least on *TV* reviews (e.g. CNET video podcasts), I definitely see them complain that the TVs (and I think some STBs) don't have built in WiFi.

I connect my Tivos via WiFi, and though I'm not 100% sure I could do it if they had built in WiFi (since I'm hooking them to a bridge that's a few feet closer to downstairs rather than being directly in the TV cabinet), I would definitely TRY built in WiFi, and it would make things simpler in general.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> How many desktop computers come with built-in wifi? Personally, I say WTF are people thinking running a fixed device on wifi.


Most mid and up Dell desktops have built in wifi now. I would say it's about 50/50 in desktops now. Wireless N is "good enough" for most people.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

The Elite does not NEED a wifi connection, it includes MOCA which is a much better option as the coax cable is already pulled by default for the video signals.

Wifi is a less than great band aid solution that Tivo would rather not support.

I wish the Premiere included MOCA, likely the next generation will.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

jcthorne said:


> The Elite does not NEED a wifi connection, it includes MOCA which is a much better option as the coax cable is already pulled by default for the video signals.
> 
> Wifi is a less than great band aid solution that Tivo would rather not support.
> 
> I wish the Premiere included MOCA, likely the next generation will.


Most people don't have a MoCa network and don't even know what it is. They would still require extra hardware.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

philw1776 said:


> They're thinking that the router is in a different room in the house than the audio visual equipment with the TiVo. "They" don't want to drill holes in walls to run an ethernet cable. That's SO nineties.


TiVo has an answer for that called MOCA.

Dan


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> TiVo has an answer for that called MOCA.
> 
> Dan


But not inexpensive compared to a wireless adapter


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

MoCA adapters are not expensive, see them all the time on fleabay for less than $50. All you need is one of them.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorola-Ni...163?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d3594833


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## real_goose (Oct 24, 2009)

aadam101 said:


> The worst part of this review is the THREE HOURS it took a COMCAST TECHNICIAN to install the cable card!


One strong reason I have not bought another TiVo is because TiVo forces me to deal with Comcast. Comcast clearly would prefer I never get a CableCard from them, but if I do they find multiple ways to make me pay figuratively and literally.

After the incompetent CSR has managed to add all the "screw you" fees, the TiVo loses almost all monthly cost advantage over Comcast equipment. Yes, the TiVo is much better than Comcast equipment, but I also have to pay up front for TiVo hardware.

I would prefer to map QAM channels to TiVo guide data myself just like Silicon Dust. But TiVo has made it clear they aren't willing to let me do that sort of mapping. Perhaps they are trying to placate cable companies because they think they can make more money by some day becoming the cable company equipment vendor.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

That is entirely dependent on your Comcast local billing policy for cards. I have 3 of them and pay $4 a month net after credits - 3 HD boxes from Comcast would cost WAY more than that every month.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

philw1776 said:


> But not inexpensive compared to a wireless adapter


Perhaps, but easier to setup and more reliable then wifi.

Dan


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

I've also read here about wireless ethernet bridges, not inexpensive but a multiport bridge could serve several devices, not just the TiVo.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

philw1776 said:


> I've also read here about wireless ethernet bridges, not inexpensive but a multiport bridge could serve several devices, not just the TiVo.


If someone can live with vintage 150Mbps wireless N you can find devices on sale for $20. I have purchased ones from multiple vendors (TP-Link, SMC Networks, & D-Link) and they all seem to work well enough for remote locations on my property at least for what I use them for (my TiVos are hard wired).


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## bshrock (Jan 6, 2012)

real_goose said:


> One strong reason I have not bought another TiVo is because TiVo forces me to deal with Comcast. Comcast clearly would prefer I never get a CableCard from them, but if I do they find multiple ways to make me pay figuratively and literally.
> 
> After the incompetent CSR has managed to add all the "screw you" fees, the TiVo loses almost all monthly cost advantage over Comcast equipment. Yes, the TiVo is much better than Comcast equipment, but I also have to pay up front for TiVo hardware.
> 
> I would prefer to map QAM channels to TiVo guide data myself just like Silicon Dust. But TiVo has made it clear they aren't willing to let me do that sort of mapping. Perhaps they are trying to placate cable companies because they think they can make more money by some day becoming the cable company equipment vendor.


 I believe that WOW! covers most of Detroit.

The tech that installed my cable cards really knew what he was doing. He used a handheld device that (re)programmed the cards, the bar-codes were scanned using an iPhone which called in the number then the Tech entered the number from the CC screen.

I went with option for 15mps internet speed test rates my connection 18 to 20 compared with the 1.5 to 3mps I was getting with Comcast and My bill is $70 less.

It has been over a year now and Knock on Wood no outages or problems yet and I did replace a TiVo HD painlessly just calling in the numbers to move the card done in less than 5 minutes no truck roll requited.


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## real_goose (Oct 24, 2009)

bshrock said:


> I believe that WOW! covers most of Detroit.


WOW does indeed cover some of the Detroit suburbs. In the last year the neighboring suburb got WOW so I am now a half block out of WOW territory. One advantage to TiVo is they have guide information for most of the over air Canadian stations. Being south of 8 Mile, I can get 6 strong digital stations from Canada. Comcast only carries 1 Canadian station.

(No matter how many times I report 1 station is now digital, they can't seem to get the guide data fixed. Just another way they find to upset me - sigh.)


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## drawz (Aug 2, 2011)

The inclusion of wifi is clearly not needed appease people like us, but if TiVo wants to have mass market appeal, they do need built-in wifi to appease a much broader audience. MOCA and ethernet cables are not solutions for the general public, plain and simple.

(MOCA maybe if set up by the cable installer and totally transparent to the consumer, but this is not a general public solution for retail devices)


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

That's your opinion - MoCA is very easy to use and is a good solution for almost anyone. It's also a heck of a lot more reliable than wireless which is why Tivo makes it optional (for support reasons alone).

I agree that Tivo should make it easier for consumers by offering a cheap MoCA adapter with the boxes, and you have to have either a wireless router or an AP/switch if you want to install either solution so nothing is truly plug and play.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> That's your opinion - MoCA is very easy to use and is a good solution for almost anyone. It's also a heck of a lot more reliable than wireless which is why Tivo makes it optional (for support reasons alone).
> 
> I agree that Tivo should make it easier for consumers by offering a cheap MoCA adapter with the boxes, and you have to have either a wireless router or an AP/switch if you want to install either solution so nothing is truly plug and play.


It's only a good solution if you have a little bit of tech knowledge. My mother can turn on her computer and login to Facebook. That's it. She uses her Tivo that I connected for her. She doesn't know anymore than that and has no desire to learn.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Yes, and wireless won't be plug and play for Mom either, it can be as troublesome to get working as MoCA (which isn't much). That was the point.


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## klambert (Dec 2, 2005)

They deserve to be knocked for the lack of Wi-Fi. I have a Roku box for netflix streaming it not only has Wireless N (admittedly only 2.4) built in, but is cheaper than Tivo's adapter.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> Yes, and wireless won't be plug and play for Mom either, it can be as troublesome to get working as MoCA (which isn't much). That was the point.


Not nearly as troublesome as MoCa. Wifi is mainstream. MoCa is not. Most people don't know what it is. Most people who have it already in their home via their Verizon FIOS router, don't know what it is. People are going to hear about some new technology and be turned off.

That being said, I am a huge MoCa fan. It's the greatest thing since wifi.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

aadam101 said:


> Not nearly as troublesome as MoCa. Wifi is mainstream. MoCa is not. Most people don't know what it is. Most people who have it already in their home via their Verizon FIOS router, don't know what it is. People are going to hear about some new technology and be turned off.
> 
> ......................


But MoCA is not even a new technology. It's been out for over six years now. It's nothing new. I got my first MoCA devices in Summer 2007 when I first got FiOS.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

MOCA is a bridging technology that is basically plug and play. How is it "troublesome"? You put some sort of adapter at either end of the coax and it basically turns into a long run of Ethernet.

Dan


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Exactly. Or, for the Elite/XL4, you get a single MoCA adapter for the jack nearest your router and then plug the Tivo in wherever you want in the house. That's what I was talking about.

Built-in wireless is fine if all you need is to download program guides and updates. For streaming/transferrring with multiple Tivos, it's entirely a crapshoot.


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## ltxi (Feb 14, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> MOCA is a bridging technology that is basically plug and play. How is it "troublesome"? You put some sort of adapter at either end of the coax and it basically turns into a long run of Ethernet.
> 
> Dan


It's troublesome because it requires additional stuff that mainstream users, including me, don't understand, want to deal with, or even care about. WiFi is universal and serves well for most. Hell, I'm still running G adapters on my TiVos that aren't hard wired ethernet and that's sufficient for my purposes.

I'm with everyone else....there is no excuse for TiVo not including integrated WiFi as part of what they tout as a premium product.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

ltxi said:


> It's troublesome because it requires additional stuff that mainstream users, including me, don't understand, want to deal with, or even care about. WiFi is universal and serves well for most. Hell, I'm still running G adapters on my TiVos that aren't hard wired ethernet and that's sufficient for my purposes.
> 
> I'm with everyone else....there is no excuse for TiVo not including integrated WiFi as part of what they tout as a premium product.


I agree. I think there was a time when wifi seemed "troublesome" too for most users. However, wifi had the novelty of freeing people from wires. MoCa seems like a step backwards for someone who has never used it.


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## seattlewendell (Jan 11, 2006)

I'm sorry, am I missing some super funny inside joke about why Tivo is misspelled on a Tivo forum?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

seattlewendell said:


> I'm sorry, am I missing some super funny inside joke about why Tivo is misspelled on a Tivo forum?


Talk to the OP. And it's TiVo, not Tivo. Everyone makes spelling errors.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

ltxi said:


> It's troublesome because it requires additional stuff that mainstream users, including me, don't understand, want to deal with, or even care about. WiFi is universal and serves well for most. Hell, I'm still running G adapters on my TiVos that aren't hard wired ethernet and that's sufficient for my purposes. .


And when your average user adds another wifi Tivo and streaming sucks or doesn't work at all, who gets the call? Tivo. Or your HDUI is bog-slow because it's too laggy retrieving stuff for the discovery bar over wifi, who gets the call? Tivo.

I can see why they wouldn't include wifi specifically because they don't want to take those calls, when 90+% of the time it's the user's crappy wireless setup.

MoCA, generally speaking, does not have these issues just like wired Ethernet.


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

The last thing I want is wireless with an HD device.


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