# Virtually EVERYTHING being copy protected now?



## Henway (Mar 21, 2005)

OK not quite everything, most the things I want. I believe the OTA aren't but need to check tonight.

I used to have a S2 and would archive motorcycle racing on SpeedTV for the past few years. No problems whatsoever (except of course having to use wireless TTG). No flag, no problem.

I just got a S3 with CableCards and MOST of the shows can't be transferred by TTG. I'd say 80% of the 300+ shows in the Tivo show "copy protection" and can't be transferred to the computer. I use Cox in San Diego.

Is this normal?
Is there a way to transfer these to my computer to offload from the Tivo and then get it back to the Tivo later for playback?

I don't think I'm doing anything illegal/immoral.
I assume people will suggest to reboot. I'll try that, too.


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## ajayabb (Jan 12, 2007)

It may be that your cable provider has set these flags accidentally. A call to them may help to straighten that out


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Henway said:


> OK not quite everything, most the things I want. I believe the OTA aren't but need to check tonight.
> 
> I used to have a S2 and would archive motorcycle racing on SpeedTV for the past few years. No problems whatsoever (except of course having to use wireless TTG). No flag, no problem.
> 
> ...


The problem is the wonderful Digital Rights Management. Analog signals don't have the copy protection built in, but the digital recordings do, and your cable company has set them to say "don't allow transfers". TiVo has to adhere to these settings.

Contact your cable company, they are most likely too restrictive with the settings, but might not even really care one way or the other.


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## StanSimmons (Jun 10, 2000)

sounds like you have cablecards on TimeWarner. The lazy SOB's at TW have the flags set for every digital channel delivered thru cablecard and refuse to change it. I've already written letters to the PUC and FCC.


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## Henway (Mar 21, 2005)

I think "they [Cox] don't care one way or the other" is appropriate.

I called and the first person in tech support had NO IDEA what a broadcast flag was. She kept on thinking I was talking about only getting a black screen when I asked about the broadcast flag and DRM. Amazing.

The supervisor knew what I was talking about and said Cox is only passing along the flag from the origination. As to which channels and which programs, she has no idea. She has no list and says the channels never provide that information to Cox. I pointed out that Cox is the customer in this situation and should be privy to the information and she said "Yeah, you'd think that..."

Sooooo,

It works on my Series 2. I've given my S2 to my parents. Is there a way to make it work on my Series 3 or am I going to have to pry my S2 out of my parents' hands and archive like I used to?


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## Henway (Mar 21, 2005)

StanSimmons said:


> sounds like you have cablecards on TimeWarner. The lazy SOB's at TW have the flags set for every digital channel delivered thru cablecard and refuse to change it. I've already written letters to the PUC and FCC.


If you have your letters in digital form, I'd be happy to add my name or send from my address...


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

It would be so nice if some aggressive forum members got together and worked this issue with the FCC and cable cos, and got TiVo on board too (with their cable relations group started last summer...)

Just don´t look at me.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

It is time to quote myself quoting Multichannel News from July 29th, 2007...



HDTiVo Blog said:


> Second, TiVo is bulking up on supporting CableCARD users itself:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://hdtivo.wordpress.com/2007/07/29/tivo-bulking-up/

TiVo: How about stepping up on the copy flag "problem," or is MRV no longer an important differentiating feature for your products?


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## aine (Dec 23, 2003)

StanSimmons said:


> sounds like you have cablecards on TimeWarner. The lazy SOB's at TW have the flags set for every digital channel delivered thru cablecard and refuse to change it. I've already written letters to the PUC and FCC.


I have a TiVo HD and a Series2. *Everything *that gets recorded on the TiVo HD above channel 99 is flagged as Copy Protected, and cannot be transferred to the Series2. This greatly diminishes one of TiVo's outstanding features -- multi-room viewing.

I just can't believe that every single program on digital cable, including old children's programs and sitcoms and the like, are specifically flagged by the 'copyright holder'. Is this just Time Warner being lazy and doing a blanket flagging? If so, what can be done about it?

I don't need to copy to my PC -- I just want to be able to share digital content between two TiVos in my own household. TiVo says I can do this -- but the reality is that I cannot.

--
p.s. would the same thing be happening if Iwere attempting to transfer from TiVo HD to TiVo HD, rather than to Series2?


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## txporter (Sep 18, 2006)

aine said:


> p.s. would the same thing be happening if Iwere attempting to transfer from TiVo HD to TiVo HD, rather than to Series2?


The same would happen from TivoHD to TivoHD. But most likely, you can copy from the Series2 to the TivoHD, right? The cablecards force you to use the digital versions of TWC channel lineup, so even the channel sub-100 that used to be analog will now be digital. The Series2 is still recording the analog signal (I believe).

This flagging is a TWC thing. I am not sure that there is much that can be done about it. I think it is up to TWC to decide how to flag. You can always try contacting your local TWC and try working your way up through the ranks there to try to find someone that 1) knows what you are talking about and 2) cares.

Jason


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## StanSimmons (Jun 10, 2000)

There is now a working hack to kill the CCI bits on the TiVoHD. It ain't easy, but it is doable. 

It does NOT remove the encryption, it merely fixes the problem that TWC and others are causing. MRV between S3 boxes (hacked to unhacked) is confirmed to be working. I do not know if S3 (hacked) to S2 (unhacked) has been tested, but it should work too.

Do a Google search for "deals freebies S3 hack for CCI after PROM mod" 

It currently requires replacing the PROM on your TiVoHD/S3 and a few software mods.


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## aine (Dec 23, 2003)

txporter said:


> The same would happen from TivoHD to TivoHD. But most likely, you can copy from the Series2 to the TivoHD, right?


yes, copying from Series2 to TiVo HD works well... never is anything Copy Protected.


> The cablecards force you to use the digital versions of TWC channel lineup, so even the channel sub-100 that used to be analog will now be digital. The Series2 is still recording the analog signal (I believe).


The Series2 is definitely recording the analog signal. But, curiously, the TiVo HD *also *seems to record the analog signal for channels 0-99. I know this because the reception had a lot of "ghosting" on channels 8 and 10, which are broadcast OTA on those same frequencies (meaning the cable channel matches the OTA channel). Then when Feb 17 came around, the ghosting went away and a light 'snow' took its place. The point is, if it were purely digital, I would not be getting analog-type interference patterns.

But perhaps as a result, I never get Copy Protection on channels 0-99.


> This flagging is a TWC thing. I am not sure that there is much that can be done about it. I think it is up to TWC to decide how to flag. You can always try contacting your local TWC and try working your way up through the ranks there to try to find someone that 1) knows what you are talking about and 2) cares.


Thanks, I'll definitely give it a shot, but I'm not holding my breath!


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## aine (Dec 23, 2003)

I sent an email to Time Warner San Diego, as well as the cable franchise authority ([email protected], in case anyone else wants to complain!). I also sent a complaint to the FCC (http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm). Let's see what happens.


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## Yoav (Jan 13, 2007)

aine said:


> I sent an email to Time Warner San Diego, as well as the cable franchise authority ([email protected], in case anyone else wants to complain!). I also sent a complaint to the FCC (http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm). Let's see what happens.


Well, given that Time Warner SD is not breaking any laws or misbehaving, I suspect you won't get far. They are perfectly within their rights marking every channel that is not a broadcast channel to 'copyright'.

However, I should point out that I'm in TWSD market, and I've noticed multiple channels in the 100s that are digital and not copyright. So that's contrary evidence to the claim that ALL digital channels are marked copyright (I just tried copying crap off UCSDTV). Additionally, all the analogue channels (0-99) seem to be uncopyrighted also.

My solution, since most of the 'copyrighted' channels at this point are on SDV also, was to call time warner, tell them I'm unhappy with the SDV and the copyright flag, and ask them to remove ALL the 200-400 channels from my 'package'. They did and my cable bill got cheaper. If you get nowhere using the FCC pressure tactic, you can try the 'financial' tactic -- although I suspect we are such a tiny insignificant group to them that they won't care.


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## murrayandstacey (Feb 2, 2009)

FWIW - Many of TIVO's own VOD downloads (ie. tekzilla, winetv, etc) are set to copyprotect. I am unable to xfer one of these shows, provided by tivo, from one s2 to another s2. So it is not just the cable co. It is TIVO as well.


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## cartouchbea (Jan 14, 2009)

aine said:


> I just can't believe that every single program on digital cable, including old children's programs and sitcoms and the like, are specifically flagged by the 'copyright holder'. Is this just Time Warner being lazy and doing a blanket flagging? If so, what can be done about it?


Here in Cincinnati, TW flags ALL channels as copy protected except those that are expressly forbidden by the FCC and/or the local franchise authority. That list is pretty much the local ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox affiliates and PBS. Everything else is protected.

It is not laziness, it is a 4 pronged strategic business move.

1. If you, as a TiVo user, call them and complain, they will make the argument that by preventing transfers to PC's via services like TTG, they are limiting cable theft because you can't post those shows on the internet. 
2. They will try to convince you to use one of their cable boxes so that you can get roughly the same result for MRV by using their "onDemand" services. But that's what they really want. By using their cable box, they've got their foot in the door to start selling you onDemand movies.
3. By "encouraging" you to use their cable boxes and it's unmodifiable programming guide, you'll get a daily reminder of all the other wonderful programming they provide on other channels that you can upgrade to.
4. After you've been using their cable box and DVR service for about a year, they've made enough to cover the initial cost of the hardware and those future rental/services fees are pure profit.

From their perspective they can either tell you the above truths or they can just claim that it's "easier" to copy protect everything. While the later may be somewhat true, it's not the real justification. Just think what TW would do if they got even 5 cents for every MRV or TTG 'ed show. You can bet your sweet bippie that those CCI flags would magically disappear on everything except the movie channels and PPV (which do require they copy protect the programming).

I really don't think there is anything the FCC or local cable franchising authority can or would do with any customer complaints on the issue. After all, TW isn't violating any laws.

What I wonder is: If there were customer complaints to the programming providers, could they be talked into contractually preventing TW from copy protecting their programming? It seems to me that if TW prevents me from re-watching their programming, then I am not watching their advertisers commercials as much as I might otherwise.


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