# Blocking EAS



## Gigs (Dec 21, 2010)

Does anyone know of a device that you can buy that will just completely block EAS from getting to the Tivo in the first place?

Failing that, does anyone know where the technical specifications of the EAS signal are available so that I could look into building such a box myself?

It looks like the newer Common Alert Protocol is just XML. Does anyone know if this is "in band" in an encrypted digital channel, or "out of band"? Are providers using CAP EAS yet? Is the XML format only between EAS relay boxes at providers or is that to end devices as well?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I don't know anything about this, but if you come up with a solution I'd love to hear it. My cable provider seems to do EAS test like 2-3 times a week and it screws up a lot of recordings. I'd love to have a way to turn it off.

Dan


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

CableLabs certification requires this feature, and it requires that it cannot be defeated. There's no difference (as far as the TiVo can tell) between a real emergency broadcast and a test.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

Seems to me if the station/channel, whether OTA or cable/satellite, is doing an EAS spot, THAT is what's going out over the channel, and that's all there is for your TV/recorder to receive. How could you block that? It's like trying to block a commercial from getting to your TV. It's part of the broadcast, and you have to live with it.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

gastrof said:


> Seems to me if the station/channel, whether OTA or cable/satellite, is doing an EAS spot, THAT is what's going out over the channel, and that's all there is for your TV/recorder to receive. How could you block that? It's like trying to block a commercial from getting to your TV. It's part of the broadcast, and you have to live with it.


He's referring to the digital eas signal which is is an out of band communication that says "STOP RECORDING! STOP ALL PLAYBACK! CHANGE ALL TUNERS TO CHANNEL 17. DISPLAY THE FOLLOWING TEXT ON THE SCREEN. DISABLE ALL PLAYBACK CONTROLS FOR THE NEXT 60 SECONDS!". Which is really, really annoying. As you might expect, it fouls up all recordings, even those not on a channel broadcasting the EAS. And if you're watching something out of my shows, it rips you out of what your watching, and forces you to watch the live EAS - about the only thing you can do is turn off the TV.

Really pretty annoying when you're watching a recorded movie, and you get dumped and locked to a blaring test pattern for 5 minutes.

-Ken


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> I don't know anything about this, but if you come up with a solution I'd love to hear it. My cable provider seems to do EAS test like 2-3 times a week and it screws up a lot of recordings. I'd love to have a way to turn it off.


But are you watching something at the time? In my area these only happen after midnight. From what I have read, recordings won't be interrupted if your TiVo is in standby when EAS occurs.

There's a trick for putting a TiVo HD into standby:

TiVo button
slow button
(possibly need to page down aka channel down)
select button

This is fewer button pushes than you might otherwise expect, but IMO a very poor substitute for a physical button on the remote.


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

kdmorse said:


> He's referring to the digital eas signal which is is an out of band communication that says "STOP RECORDING! STOP ALL PLAYBACK! CHANGE ALL TUNERS TO CHANNEL 17. DISPLAY THE FOLLOWING TEXT ON THE SCREEN. DISABLE ALL PLAYBACK CONTROLS FOR THE NEXT 60 SECONDS!".-Ken


WTH? Is this something new? I'm strictly OTA these days but when I had TWC, about a year ago, I never saw anything like this.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> But are you watching something at the time? In my area these only happen after midnight. From what I have read, recordings won't be interrupted if your TiVo is in standby when EAS occurs.
> 
> There's a trick for putting a TiVo HD into standby:
> 
> ...


If you have a universal remote there's a discrete code for Standby.


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## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

kdmorse said:


> He's referring to the digital eas signal which is is an out of band communication that says "STOP RECORDING! STOP ALL PLAYBACK! CHANGE ALL TUNERS TO CHANNEL 17. DISPLAY THE FOLLOWING TEXT ON THE SCREEN. DISABLE ALL PLAYBACK CONTROLS FOR THE NEXT 60 SECONDS!".


Never seen anything remotely like this, either OTA or on cable. Is this just something stations in tornado alley do?


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Brighthouse Central Fla I see it every Wednesday morning around 3am and am totally locked out of Tivo for several minutes. It REALLY sucks when you're watching a show and all of a sudden you're dumped out of it and locked out if you happen to be one of the people using Tivo during these tests.


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## Andyistic (Sep 25, 2009)

Gigs said:


> Does anyone know of a device that you can buy that will just completely block EAS from getting to the Tivo in the first place?


This is exactly the reason I get all my Prime-time programming from antenna.
I have never seen any sudden EAS interruption during a show with antenna.
I would see them all the time, especially at night, on cable.
I hated that.
But never with antenna.
Now I only use cable for shows which are not broadcast, like Conan on TBS.


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## Andyistic (Sep 25, 2009)

Gigs said:


> Does anyone know of a device that you can buy that will just completely block EAS from getting to the Tivo in the first place?


Here's some info I found regarding EAS from Wikipedia:


> *From Wikipedia:*
> 
> All EAS equipment must be tested weekly. The required weekly test (RWT) consists of the header and the end-of-message SAME bursts. The RWT does not need an audio or graphic message announcing the test, although many stations will provide them as a courtesy to the listener or viewer. Television stations are not required to transmit a video message for weekly tests. RWTs are scheduled by the station, on random days and times, and are generally not relayed.[6]
> 
> ...


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

mec1991 said:


> Never seen anything remotely like this, either OTA or on cable. Is this just something stations in tornado alley do?


I've seen it happen repeatedly on the west coast while watching playback late at night. Rips the Tivo out of playback, forces it to display the EAS message, and then dumps me on some public access station.

Like everything these days, the government thinks we're to freakin' stupid to tune to the channel ourselves in the event of a real emergency. A simple text overlay across the bottom would have been sufficient and/or an EAS popup screen that we could immediately cancel. There's no need to change channels on the tuners or abort a recording.


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## Andyistic (Sep 25, 2009)

smbaker said:


> I've seen it happen repeatedly on the west coast while watching playback late at night. Rips the Tivo out of playback, forces it to display the EAS message, and then dumps me on some public access station.
> 
> Like everything these days, the government thinks we're to freakin' stupid to tune to the channel ourselves in the event of a real emergency. A simple text overlay across the bottom would have been sufficient and/or an EAS popup screen that we could immediately cancel. There's no need to change channels on the tuners or abort a recording.


If you're enjoying a playback of a previous recording, how would you know about such an emergency otherwise?
You'd have to have some other source going on, like a radio station somewhere else in the home turned on.
This is the reason for the unavoidable interrupt.
But yes - still annoying as hell.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Andyistic said:


> If you're enjoying a playback of a previous recording, how would you know about such an emergency otherwise?


Very true, but you need a reasonable definition of "emergency". Fortunately my cable provider has calmed down to the point where these are fairly rare. But at the height of it's annoyance, it seemed to believe it was a real life shattering emergency:

1) Every weekend at 3am. I'm usually watching something at 3am...
2) Every thunderstorm, real or imagined. Usually afternoon or evening guaranteeing the interruption of a prime time show.
3) Every amber alert. 
4) One month, every time it rained, even a little bit. (We had a lot of rain that month, so every time it rained it triggered a flash flood warning, day after day).

We have in the past argued the relative merits of all of the above in theory. In practice, not one digital EAS I have ever seen has ever had a practical effect on my life, changed what I was going to do, made me or anyone I know safer in any way, or done anything but irritate me.

(The amber alter one gets debated alot. I maintain that I'm not going to spot that yellow van with Free Candy written on the side driving down I123 while I'm in my bathrobe, in bed, watching tv).

-Ken


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## mchief (Sep 10, 2005)

Funny, no EAS alerts in this area have ever interrupted a recoding of mine. 

Agree with Amber Alerts - put them on all the overhead signage on the freeways - on my TV at home make very little sense.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Andyistic said:


> If you're enjoying a playback of a previous recording, how would you know about such an emergency otherwise?


A simple one-line text overlay and beeping noise across the bottom of the screen would suffice. It's what the EAS system has done for the past several decades and has worked fine. The DVR is easily capable of doing a text overlay on top of a playing recording.

My objection is that the current implementation assumes we're too stupid to pay attention to the EAS message and we require someone to tune the station for us.

Furthermore, what happens in an emergency if someone is watching a DVD or a Blu-Ray? or watching Hulu on their Roku? or surfing the Internet? Perhaps we need the government to install some means to seize control of all these other devices as well.

In fact, they should really install big brother in my alarm clock, in case I'm sleeping through an emergency.


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## Andyistic (Sep 25, 2009)

smbaker said:


> Perhaps we need the government to install some means to seize control of all these other devices as well.
> 
> In fact, they should really install big brother in my alarm clock, in case I'm sleeping through an emergency.


http://www.fema.gov/emergency/ipaws

There you go. That will deliver emergency notices to your cell phone too!


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

mchief said:


> Funny, no EAS alerts in this area have ever interrupted a recoding of mine.


Same here. Of course, me being OTA only helps. If an EAS alert is broadcast, it's going to be on ALL the stations, so there is no reason for the Tivo to change the channel. 

And I have never witnessed an EAS alert/test interrupting playback of a previously recorded program.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

kdmorse said:


> He's referring to the digital eas signal which is is an out of band communication that says "STOP RECORDING! STOP ALL PLAYBACK! CHANGE ALL TUNERS TO CHANNEL 17. DISPLAY THE FOLLOWING TEXT ON THE SCREEN. DISABLE ALL PLAYBACK CONTROLS FOR THE NEXT 60 SECONDS!". Which is really, really annoying. As you might expect, it fouls up all recordings, even those not on a channel broadcasting the EAS. And if you're watching something out of my shows, it rips you out of what your watching, and forces you to watch the live EAS - about the only thing you can do is turn off the TV.
> 
> Really pretty annoying when you're watching a recorded movie, and you get dumped and locked to a blaring test pattern for 5 minutes.


This is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm a late night guy so I'm regularly watching TV after midnight. What's worse is when I leave the TV paused on something and go to the bathroom. Then all the sudden one of these happens and not only does it play the annoying warning signal at whatever volume the TV is currently set but after it's done it remains on live TV. All of which have the potential of disturbing my wife who is sleeping in a room right above the living room.

Dan


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## Gigs (Dec 21, 2010)

Thanks for the information guys.

I've been thinking about it more, and while the actual EAS message is on a specific channel, there's got to be some kind of out of band signal to tell the receiver to switch to that channel.

I'll keep researching and see if I come up with something. As far as "how would you know if there were a real emergency"... well, most of the time my TV is turned off and I don't listen to radio, so I'm taking that risk most of the time anyway!

That cell phone notification service looks interesting though. Good info.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

The only emergency I could care about is a weather one and for those am always on alert anyway. I don't understand why every living room in America would need to have this system...at least not with the mandatory system lockdowns. Even with the only one true emergency I've ever seen in Central Florida which was the sudden course change of Hurricane Charley we had plenty notice and you couldn't ignore it. If they drop the big one or whatever there is not much I can do and if they did my crazy HAM radio neighbor would probably take it upon himself to ride up an down the streets with a bullhorn announcing the end of time. Since we're going to be locked out of our Tivo when Armageddon strikes I guess would have to fire up the DVD or read a book.


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## Andyistic (Sep 25, 2009)

rahnbo said:


> ... at least not with the mandatory system lockdowns.


They should add to this and have all windows and doors of the home secured and locked to make sure you can't even leave, and make sure you can't start your car either, until the emergency notice is complete.

This is what we refer to as ... The American Way.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I used to never get EAS alerts. Now I get weekly tests, every Tuesday at midnight. I haven't seen the monthly tests.

As for when I get real alerts, the last one I got was for a Megan's Law incident. At least that's what I think it was for since the sound was so low and garbled I couldn't make out what it was saying. I then got another EAS canceling the previous EAS. At that point I put the box in standby since I had an upcoming recording which I didn't want to get ruined. I still don't understand the reasoning behind putting up EAS for Megan's Law incidents since I'm extremely unlikely to see the the car with the reported license place while sitting in my living room. They're planning on adding alerts for seniors who wander out and get lost and I think pets as well.

One time I got an EAS which switched to a baseball game and simply left me there. I couldn't get out and had to pull the plug and then immediately put the box into standby on startup to prevent getting switched back to the game.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

morac said:


> At least that's what I think it was for since the sound was so low and garbled I couldn't make out what it was saying.


That's another good point. Of all the EAS's I've seen, very very few have actually been clearly intelligible. I'm not sure whose fault it is, the Tivo, the Cable Provider, or the Channel, but I usually end up with no volume, or a garbled signal, or am dumped into the middle of a sentence, or it cuts out early. Regardless, 9 times out of 10 - even if it were important, it'd be fairly useless.

-Ken


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## andersea (Feb 21, 2007)

Irrespective of the merits of the EAS interruption, is there any way to disable it? Using a TiVo premiere XL with CableCard from Charter Communications. Reading through this thread -- it seems like the answer is no, but I just want to confirm.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

andersea said:


> Irrespective of the merits of the EAS interruption, is there any way to disable it? Using a TiVo premiere XL with CableCard from Charter Communications. Reading through this thread -- it seems like the answer is no, but I just want to confirm.


drop the cable card is it.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

No, but as has been said before, your recordings won't be interrupted if the Tivo is in standby. So then it only has a chance to mess up shows you're recording while watching something else.

(I've only been hit by them knowingly 2-3 times at most.. though the times I've seen it, I end up going to a BLANK SCREEN.. I'm not sure if it's trying to go to a channel I don't get or what.. I'm only speculating that it's this, but since both Tivos did this and both 'locked up' for a few minutes, that's what it seems like.)


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## beatnavy77 (Sep 23, 2007)

Unfortunately for us, these are occuring during primetime so we are usually watching a recording then. Tonight, this happened at 8:55 PM PST. We were lucky that the one show we were recording was at commercial during the interruption, otherwise we would have missed the ending of the show.

Here are the problems as I see them with the TiVo and these alerts:

1. During the alert, the TiVo records the EAS message on any current recording of a station that is broadcasting normally. I don't see why this is necessary. The alert is already being displayed on the TV, and I don't need to see the EAS 2 weeks later when I watch the recording.
2. If I'm watching a recording, the TiVo displays an alert that simply says 'somebody has initiated a weekly test'. As best I can tell, the TiVo is not displaying whatever alert message is being broadcast by somebody. It's just a generic message that appears to be generated by the TiVo itself.
2a. If I'm right that the TiVO is generating the alert being displayed, the TiVO doesn't indicate which channel initiated the test. I'd be happy with just a channel number.
2b. If I"m wrong and the message being displayed is coming from a channel, there is no indication which channel is broadcasting it. 
3. The cable company was unable to tell me the source of the alert. They claim they have no way of knowing which of their stations broadcasted it.
4. When the alert is over, TiVo falls back to live TV. It should instead return to the previous state (e.g., resume playback of the recorded show I was watching).

So all I know is that I keep getting regular interruptions of primetime recordings due to some station sending test messages at inconvenient times, and I have no way of knowing which station is responsible.

I hold TiVo responsible for #1. They should be able to continue recordings that are in progress. (if 2b is the case, then I suppose one tuner would be needed for that, but only if 2b is true)

If 2a applies, the TiVo should be able to fix that as well.

If 2b is the case, FEMA should require that the station provide some identification when transmitting the alert. And if these alerts are going to interrupt anything a user is doing, on any channel, FEMA should direct they be done outside of prime viewing hours. I'd complain to the station responsible -- if only I knew who that is.

For #3, perhaps Frontier (formerly FIOS) simply isn't ready for prime time. Maybe I should find an alternate source of programming.

#4 is also a TiVo issue.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

This is becoming more of a problem for me as well. It seems to be happening more and more during times when I'm actually recording something, which causes an interruption in the recording that I don't even realize is there until I watch it days/weeks later.

If anyone knows of a device or inline filter that can block these EAS messages I'd really love to know about it.

Dan


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

I don't know for certain whether it is on the OOB channel or not. It is possible it is embedded in the QAM streams themselves, but eihter way there is no way to block it. Certainly I would put the code in the OOB channel if I were engineering it, but blocking the OOB channel (usually 75 MHz) would prevent the CableCard from being able to tune anything at all. The OOB channel provides, among other things, the channel map that tells the CableCard on which timeslot on which QAM a particular channel may be found.

Whether on the OOB channel or embedded in the digital strream, your request is much like asking for a filter that can eliminate four letter words from the video stream. The commands which implement the EAS switch are a small section within a critical data stream.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Complain to the FCC and/or CableLabs. Supposedly Tivo is doing what it is required to.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> This is becoming more of a problem for me as well. It seems to be happening more and more during times when I'm actually recording something, which causes an interruption in the recording that I don't even realize is there until I watch it days/weeks later.
> 
> If anyone knows of a device or inline filter that can block these EAS messages I'd really love to know about it.
> 
> Dan


I think the best you can do is put your Tivo into stand-by.
This (supposedly) will stop the Tivo from recording the EAS message.


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## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

You guys jusy want something to whine about. The EBS is a good thing, get over it!


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Joe01880 said:


> You guys jusy want something to whine about. The EBS is a good thing, get over it!


It was a good thing until they started using it for non-emergencies and weekly tests. At the rate it's going I wouldn't be surprised if they start using it for lost pets.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Yeah, frequent testing is going to cause some people to contract "the boy who cried wolf" syndrome, which would make the EAS pointless.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Since you don't get to predict when the EAS alerts happen,


Phantom Gremlin said:


> From what I have read, recordings won't be interrupted if your TiVo is in standby when EAS occurs.
> 
> There's a trick for putting a TiVo HD into standby:
> 
> TiVo button


*BONG!*


Phantom Gremlin said:


> slow button
> (possibly need to page down aka channel down)


*BONG!* or *BONG! BONG!*



Phantom Gremlin said:


> select button


*BONG!*

Like with the "Operation prohibited" on DVDs, at least at the current time, you _are_ allowed to turn off or mute the TV or yank the power cords.

I routinely put mine in standby before turning them off.

That sequence is useful. I was trying to figure out how to program my Harmony remote the sequence to do it.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

morac said:


> It was a good thing until they started using it for non-emergencies and weekly tests. At the rate it's going I wouldn't be surprised if they start using it for lost pets.


My pet dog lounges in front of the center speaker. Nothing disturbs him but when the EAS *BRAAAPPP*! comes out he gets up and runs to me.

I live in the town where we get 4 reverse-911 phone calls when the school closes early or the railroad crossing will be closed.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

My cable company seems to be doing tests like 3-4 times a week now. They use to limit the tests to the middle of the night, but in the last few months I've had tests interrupt programs recorded in the early evening, like the news, and even one prime time show. If they weren't so frequent I wouldn't even care.

Also I know this is not TiVo's fault. I just thought maybe there was someone who knew a way to block the signal or something. Sounds like that's not possible so I guess I'll just have to deal with it.

Dan


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Will removing the offending channel(s) from the channel list prevent the Tivo from tuning to the EAS tests?

Obviously not good idea if you record shows from said channels.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I doubt it. Disabling a channel in the channel list doesn't prevent you from changing to it, it just hides it in the guide and search results. So there's nothing stopping the TiVo from changing to the unselected channel in fact it does so for Season Passes made on channels that were later unselected. The tune request comes in over OOB so the TiVo will just do it.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

steve614 said:


> I think the best you can do is put your Tivo into stand-by.
> This (supposedly) will stop the Tivo from recording the EAS message.


I think that, in a rare moment of rational behavior in a bureaucracy, someone realized that if the device were in standby mode, that there is a good chance that noone would see the EAS message


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

CharlesH said:


> I think that, in a rare moment of rational behavior in a bureaucracy, someone realized that if the device were in standby mode, that there is a good chance that noone would see the EAS message


SHHH! They'll mandate that the STB has to turn the TV and AVR on and set the volume to max for the BRAAPPP!!!


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

morac said:


> It was a good thing until they started using it for non-emergencies and weekly tests. At the rate it's going I wouldn't be surprised if they start using it for lost pets.


It's worse than that. EAS testing is inherently flawed. It's only putuative purpose would be to have people report a failure of the system, or for the authroities to make sure the sytem is working. No one is going to report if the EAS fails, since they would never know or notice if it did not work, and there is no way for authorities to confirm that it did work. The notion of having the EAS is a good one, but weekly tests are just stupid.


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## qz3fwd (Jul 6, 2007)

lrhorer said:


> It's worse than that. EAS testing is inherently flawed. It's only putuative purpose would be to have people report a failure of the system, or for the authroities to make sure the sytem is working. No one is going to report if the EAS fails, since they would never know or notice if it did not work, and there is no way for authorities to confirm that it did work. The notion of having the EAS is a good one, but weekly tests are just stupid.


It is likely to confirm the broadcasters equipment is working properly and therefore I assume they have someone assigned "home duty" to monitor the signal on their TV and report back the outcome? I highly doubt they are foolish enough to rely on the public to report to them a signal the public never receives in the first place if the broadcasters equipment isnt working properly-do you really think thats the case?


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## qz3fwd (Jul 6, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> My cable company seems to be doing tests like 3-4 times a week now. They use to limit the tests to the middle of the night, but in the last few months I've had tests interrupt programs recorded in the early evening, like the news, and even one prime time show. If they weren't so frequent I wouldn't even care.
> 
> Also I know this is not TiVo's fault. I just thought maybe there was someone who knew a way to block the signal or something. Sounds like that's not possible so I guess I'll just have to deal with it.
> 
> Dan


What you are looking for is likely a federal crime.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

I was watching my TiVo late last Thursday and got an EAS message with a tsunami warning for Friday AM. Living near the Pacific coast, this was relevant. One unfortunate thing about the EAS is that they tell you that there is an emergency, but your device is locked from accessing any channels that might provide emergency information


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

CharlesH said:


> I was watching my TiVo late last Thursday and got an EAS message with a tsunami warning for Friday AM. Living near the Pacific coast, this was relevant. One unfortunate thing about the EAS is that they tell you that there is an emergency, but your device is locked from accessing any channels that might provide emergency information


Wow, how long did the EAS lock up the system?


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

rahnbo said:


> Wow, how long did the EAS lock up the system?


Mine had a similar warning. The lockout was for only a minute or two, not long at all. My first, and hopefully my last, non-test EAS.

I'm quite disappointed in EAS. The way this tsunami warning was implemented was akin to "epic fail". In my case the announcement was for an event which would occur in about 6 hours. However, they only did one single EAS. What they should have been doing is about one an hour, to make sure that they caught the attention of people who had recently turned on their TiVos.

Or maybe the box already has functionality like the following. If not, then it should. What is needed is for the box to *remember the occurence of the EAS* and present it to a viewer up to x hours (specified in EAS) later. Otherwise it's useless except for the 0.01% of the population who happen to be watching at 1:30 AM.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

CharlesH said:


> I was watching my TiVo late last Thursday and got an EAS message with a tsunami warning for Friday AM. Living near the Pacific coast, this was relevant. One unfortunate thing about the EAS is that they tell you that there is an emergency, but your device is locked from accessing any channels that might provide emergency information


But the weird thing was -- it had the "this is a test" promo before it (but talked about the tsunami afterwards).. at least the one I saw (IIRC during the alleged recording of Letterman's show, since it was slipped in time).. then sometime later, after I had gotten home, the Tivos locked up during ANOTHER EAS.. (so the first one probably didn't trigger the Tivo's EAS, but it did appear in the recording as an EAS)


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

I was listening to Pandora tonight, and my weather radio went off informing me of yet another thunderstorm warning (sort of like a several times a day event around here that no one even pays attention to), and the Tivo dumped me out of Pandora, told me to turn to channel 18 for info (why didnt they just give the info where it was at?), and then instead of returning me to Pandora, it returned me to live TV.

If I use an A/B switch on the incoming cable line, and disconnect the cable when I am listening to Pandora, that would stop those EAS broadcasts correct? They dont come in via the internet connection I am guessing...


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Davelnlr_ said:


> If I use an A/B switch on the incoming cable line, and disconnect the cable when I am listening to Pandora, that would stop those EAS broadcasts correct? They dont come in via the internet connection I am guessing...


Yes it will. Though obviously and scheduled recordings will fail.


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

morac said:


> Yes it will. Though obviously and scheduled recordings will fail.


I figured out something tonight. The weather radio (which has a jack for an external warning light) goes off exactly 10 seconds BEFORE the Tivo EAS kicks in.
If I can rig up a box to sense the voltage from the weather radio output to the light, and have it kick in a 60 second timer which disconnects the cable, and then reconnects it, I will only miss 60 seconds of the program if I am watching TV, and not have Pandora interrupted (or playback of a recorded program) if I am not watching live TV. Summer project. ALready have lots of timers (use them in coffee makers) and just need to find a low voltage relay that has contacts somewhat close to 75 ohms.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Tonight I started watching a recorded show and just before I was about to sit down an EAS test kicked on. Two shows were recording but I decided to see what would happen if I pulled the cable. I pulled the cable from the outlet and the EAS message disappeared as of course did my signal on both tuners. I immediately plugged the cable back in to the wall and the signal on both tuners was resumed and the EAS message did not come back. Total time unplugged was about 5 seconds and except for those 5 seconds neither recording was disrupted and I didn't have to wait for the EAS test to waste several minutes of my time. Gonna find my A/B switch so in the future all I have to do is toggle it to disappear the EAS test.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

The EAS signal is sent throughout the EAS so it's likely the EAS was over by the time you reconnected the cable. EAS tests only last at most 10 seconds anyway. 

In the past when stuck in an EAS (without knowing it since the EAS was broken) I actually pulled the plug and rebooted my TiVo. When it booted back up it went back into the EAS.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Davelnlr_ said:


> I figured out something tonight. The weather radio (which has a jack for an external warning light) goes off exactly 10 seconds BEFORE the Tivo EAS kicks in.
> If I can rig up a box to sense the voltage from the weather radio output to the light, and have it kick in a 60 second timer which disconnects the cable, and then reconnects it, I will only miss 60 seconds of the program if I am watching TV, and not have Pandora interrupted ...





rahnbo said:


> Tonight I started watching a recorded show and just before I was about to sit down an EAS test kicked on. ...I pulled the cable from the outlet and the EAS message disappeared as of course did my signal on both tuners. I immediately plugged the cable back in to the wall and the signal on both tuners was resumed and the EAS message did not come back. ....


OMIGAWD. Look for a new DHS policy (sic) to make disabling EAS a felony. I hope youse guys like being on the no-fly list.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

I used to get them every month or so at about 10:50 AM (it always interrupted the showcase on _The Price is Right_).

Wasn't there a time when an EAS would appear as a popup window on TiVos (and not interrupt the recording)? Was that just something they were testing on Series 3 TiVos?

-- Don


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Davelnlr_ said:


> I figured out something tonight. The weather radio (which has a jack for an external warning light) goes off exactly 10 seconds BEFORE the Tivo EAS kicks in.
> If I can rig up a box to sense the voltage from the weather radio output to the light, and have it kick in a 60 second timer which disconnects the cable, and then reconnects it, I will only miss 60 seconds of the program if I am watching TV, and not have Pandora interrupted (or playback of a recorded program) if I am not watching live TV. Summer project. ALready have lots of timers (use them in coffee makers) and just need to find a low voltage relay that has contacts somewhat close to 75 ohms.


If you want to interrput your cable signal you only need to break the inner conductor, but when you "make" it again, you're going to want contacts as near to 0 Ohms as you can get, not 75.

Actually, a signal diode in the line that can be forward or reverse biased would allow or disable signal flow.

Somewhere around here I've got an old issue of Popular Electronics or Radio-Electronics with a construction article about a switcher that has what would be useful details. PM me in a month or two about it and I may be far along in my current clean up and organize marathon to be able to find the time and space to hunt for it.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Instead of severing the cable coax connection, you should be able to set up a high pass filter to filter out the low frequencies (where the OOB data usually is). That should let you allow you to keep recording on channels that are already tuned. The exception to this would be encrypted channels since the encryption key comes in over the OOB data so the channels would likely drop out at some point when the encryption key changes (not sure how often that happens). As such you wouldn't want this connected all the time.

On my system the OOB data comes in over 75.25 KHz, but it probably varies from system to system. You can check the DVR Diagnostics screen to see the OOB frequency. Most channels are in the 300+ MHz range.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

Here's a device that should actually be legal to make (anyone out there in the consumer electronics business?):

Cable comes into house and goes into magic EAS box.

Magic EAS box detects the EAS messages and plays them itself (note that this means you will be able to hear the message even if the TV is off, thus making it even more appealing to nanny state than current EAS implementation). Magic EAS box passes cable signal (which now has the EAS info stripped out) to the rest of the junk hanging off your cable, which now is never disturbed by EAS.

Millions of dollars are just waiting to be made!

P.S. The absolute worst EAS experience I've had so far was just the other day: I was watching a recorded movie, I paused it so I could go do something on the other side of the house for a bit. While it was paused, an EAS alert about a line of thunderstorms came in (storms I already knew about). This yanked the tivo out of pause and into live TV. If there was a way to find the place I used to be paused in my recording, I couldn't locate it. I had to start over at the beginning and fast forward till the scenes didn't look familiar anymore. I don't think that kind of annoying behavior is mandated by the gummint. I think that is incompetent tivo engineering standing on its own.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

morac said:


> The EAS signal is sent throughout the EAS so it's likely the EAS was over by the time you reconnected the cable. EAS tests only last at most 10 seconds anyway.
> 
> In the past when stuck in an EAS (without knowing it since the EAS was broken) I actually pulled the plug and rebooted my TiVo. When it booted back up it went back into the EAS.


It lasts several minutes for my area.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

This week we had very severe weather in FLA. There were several times where I was watching a live news broadcast about high winds and locations of possible tornadoes when the EAS dumped me out of that to a channel with NO news to broadcast the EAS. How stupid! My little $2 switch worked like a charm however. It terminated the EAS and allowed me to switch back to the news that was actually useful to me.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

rahnbo said:


> It lasts several minutes for my area.


Are you sure? There's a bug in the Series 3 boxes where they don't immediately return control when an EAS ends. Premiere boxes do return control when the EAS ends. For me on the Premiere EAS tests last about 10 or 15 seconds. On my S3 they last 45 seconds to a minute.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

rahnbo said:


> This week we had very severe weather in FLA.


Yea, that always triggers them. The thing that drives me crazy is the interminable nature of the warning. The weather service message is always something like:

Severe storms are expected in a 15 sided complex polygon bounded by a point 1.5 miles west of little skunk river, extending 12.76123 miles to intersection of pine bluff south and dingleberry key north, ..... babbling for about 5 minutes about landmarks I never heard of that give me no idea of the geography they are talking about .

Then, to top it off, in about 10 minutes they revise the warning area, shifting it a few hundred feet, so obviously they need to do a new warning message with the incomprehensible jumble of geographic description changed by 12 characters somewhere in the middle.

It is no wonder people want to make it stop .


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## Krandor (Jun 10, 2004)

Joe01880 said:


> You guys jusy want something to whine about. The EBS is a good thing, get over it!


In general it is in the case of a real emergency that EVERYBODY needs to know about immediatly. However, the overuse of the EBS for things that are not major emergencies is where the problem comes in. EBS should be used selectively not for every small thing somebody things somebody might need to know.


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## Krandor (Jun 10, 2004)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Or maybe the box already has functionality like the following. If not, then it should. What is needed is for the box to *remember the occurence of the EAS* and present it to a viewer up to x hours (specified in EAS) later. Otherwise it's useless except for the 0.01% of the population who happen to be watching at 1:30 AM.


In today's digital world there has to be a better way to implement EAS. Maybe when you turn on your TiVo or cable box you get a message like "there is one emergency bulletin you have not read. Do you want to read it now?".

there really is no reason for it to be implement like it current it in today's digital world.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Krandor said:


> In today's digital world there has to be a better way to implement EAS. Maybe when you turn on your TiVo or cable box you get a message like "there is one emergency bulletin you have not read. Do you want to read it now?".
> 
> there really is no reason for it to be implement like it current it in today's digital world.


There is. I subscribe to NWS and local news emergency alerts via SMS, have a weather radio, pay attention to what the heck is going on, plus my crazy HAM radio neighbor. If the "big one" is coming I don't want to know.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

morac said:


> Are you sure? There's a bug in the Series 3 boxes where they don't immediately return control when an EAS ends. Premiere boxes do return control when the EAS ends. For me on the Premiere EAS tests last about 10 or 15 seconds. On my S3 they last 45 seconds to a minute.


Yes I am sure. I've been sitting through these things at least once a week for almost a year now. It would depend on your local system I suppose.


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## SnakeEyes (Dec 26, 2000)

rahnbo said:


> This week we had very severe weather in FLA. There were several times where I was watching a live news broadcast about high winds and locations of possible tornadoes when the EAS dumped me out of that to a channel with NO news to broadcast the EAS. How stupid!


This is nonsense we've been dealing with in Iowa every summer for a few years now. Absolutely ridiculous. Happened again last week when we had early season tornadoes. I have no use for EAS on my TV. Tom gives me my alerts on my weather radio.


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## ultraviolet (Jun 15, 2007)

I know this is an older thread but either Tivo "updated" something or the NWS has gone insane with their testing.

Normally we get the emergency alert/message will exit automatically Tivo message and it goes away until the next week - and here, they do it during the day (KDTX). If the channel is changed after the alert, it's like normal. 

Today, however, every. single. time. the channel is changed, the alert comes up - channel can't be changed, Tivo button won't work, no pause/ff/rw. This happens if I'm changing to a cable channel (WOW digital, no cable cards), an OTA broadcast, and if I'm watching a recorded program, it switches me back to live TV. This isn't some few seconds deal - it's looping. A few minutes for the alert, it goes off, then comes back on less than a minute later. 

Did the Tivo software before somehow see that it just gave the test and blocked others after or is it just my Tivo? At this rate, according to the test message, I get to look forward to this until 5.36pm.

(Just for the record, a reboot didn't stop it - although it did take about 5 minutes until it started looping again)


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

No, a reboot wouldn't stop it. It should stop if you put it in Standby (you can't watch then, but it's useful if you're trying to record something), or if you disconnect the Cable TV input.

I'm not sure what you think changing the channel has to do with it. The alerts hit you no matter what channel you're tuned to.


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## ultraviolet (Jun 15, 2007)

wmcbrine said:


> I'm not sure what you think changing the channel has to do with it. The alerts hit you no matter what channel you're tuned to.


Of course, but, in the past, I've never finished getting the alert on one channel, change it to another, get it nearly immediately again, then if I change it back to that first channel get it again.

At any rate, it apparently was a WOW issue - my husband unplugged the cable for another project and noticed that the messages on the OTA channel the tv was tuned to stopped. Later I received an automated email from our city about a problem with "the WOW" and the EAS test being continually resent.

I guess the Tivo just heard the EAS message and put it up even though the source it was currently using on both tuners was different than the one sending out the EAS message.


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## grecorj (Feb 6, 2002)

Weird. Just got one of these "RMT alerts" on my cell phone. There's actually an app on my phone were you can change some settings. (I'm on Verizon).


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Krandor said:


> In today's digital world there has to be a better way to implement EAS.


There is.

It's called Twitter.


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## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

Not sure why the Tivo has to record the EAS, cuz by the time you see it on the recording, well, its either not really an emergency or you know about it already...


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Soapm said:


> Not sure why the Tivo has to record the EAS, cuz by the time you see it on the recording, well, its either not really an emergency or you know about it already...


I blame my cable company (Comcast) for this. There's two ways to do EAS: an intrusive way that gets recorded and a newer nonintrusive way that appears as a banner only when watching live and doesn't get recorded. The nonintrusive way has been around for a 5 years, yet my local Comcast still uses the old way despite me complaining a few times to them.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

morac said:


> I blame my cable company (Comcast) for this. There's two ways to do EAS: an intrusive way that gets recorded and a newer nonintrusive way that appears as a banner only when watching live and doesn't get recorded. The nonintrusive way has been around for a 5 years, yet my local Comcast still uses the old way despite me complaining a few times to them.


Cox Arizona uses the newer method, It does not show up on recordings, But it does bump you to LiveTV no matter what you are doing, Netflix and all recording playbacks. The banner is a lovely bright pink color and runs 3x most every night, between 12am and 2:15am. Cox AZ runs it once for every county they service, I hardly call it non-intrusive.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

CoxInPHX said:


> Cox Arizona uses the newer method, It does not show up on recordings, But it does bump you to LiveTV no matter what you are doing, Netflix and all recording playbacks. The banner is a lovely bright pink color and runs 3x most every night, between 12am and 2:15am. Cox AZ runs it once for every county they service, I hardly call it non-intrusive.


At least it doesn't ruin recordings.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

morac said:


> At least it doesn't ruin recordings.


But is does lose your place in the one you were watching and you have to fast
forward to get back.


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## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

tomhorsley said:


> But is does lose your place in the one you were watching and you have to fast
> forward to get back.


I understand the flipping you to live TV (not the lose your place part) so you can be alerted and receive the additional instructions if its not a test. However, I don't know why they can't test each county simultaneously (like an actual emergency) or why you have to get it nightly. I would think once a quarter would suffice, once a month to be overly cautious but nightly???


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Soapm said:


> I understand the flipping you to live TV (not the lose your place part) so you can be alerted and receive the additional instructions if its not a test. However, I don't know why they can't test each county simultaneously (like an actual emergency) or why you have to get it nightly. I would think once a quarter would suffice, once a month to be overly cautious but nightly???


Tests need to be done weekly by Government mandate. The tests are fairly useless though since the one time there was a real emergency, the EAS in my area failed horribly.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

rahnbo said:


> This week we had very severe weather in FLA. There were several times where I was watching a live news broadcast about high winds and locations of possible tornadoes when the EAS dumped me out of that to a channel with NO news to broadcast the EAS. How stupid! My little $2 switch worked like a charm however. It terminated the EAS and allowed me to switch back to the news that was actually useful to me.


Geez... I just noticed the reference to A/B switch now.

During that last move, I threw away (sent as e-waste) a remote controlled Radio Shack A/B coax switch that I thought I no longer had a use for (years ago). The batteries in the remote had leaked badly as well. Whoops. Little did I know that I could've been useful for interrupting these stupid EASes.

I've had the stupid tests interrupt my TV watching before.


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## NGeorge (Feb 27, 2004)

Haha I'm glad to see a post about this... Comcast is brutal here--they like to do this in prime time, and it always seems to happen during really good parts of the show... I finally had enough tonight so had to find a place to vent. 

I decided to listen to the full 17 minute version of Rhapsody In Blue via Youtube on the Tivo... 2 minutes in "BRAAAAPPP!" and a minute long garbled test (about 3x louder than the music) where I was then dumped to the local public access channel with a group of potheads celebrating the new marijuana legalization here in Washington. 

In 12 years of DirecTV, mostly with their Tivos, I *never* had this happen... the occasional local test from from the station, but the box wouldn't get taken over and try this "forced channel change/freeze" garbage. It originated from the station, and you could fast forward through it since it was actually "on the broadcast". 

I can't wait to get back to DirecTV (although I *really* wish they had a Tivo Premiere--I really do like this thing!)--This is just one more little benefit to satellite. No EAS tests, and Pay Per Inquiry commercials during the local avails instead of local advertisers and their terribly produced SD ads. (well, both are bad, but I'll take the PPI's and DirecTV promos)

Of course now DirecTV is starting to do "local insertion" via the DVR hard drives, so I'm sure forced EAS and terrible local ads aren't too far off... still, it's just one more little reason I can't wait to move to an area with a clear view of the southern sky again  

I can understand EAS on the radio (I work in broadcasting in fact)... but I wish there was an easy "opt out" option on the TV. Especially for the Amber Alerts--if you're listening the radio, there's a good chance your in your car. As previously stated, I'm not going to catch the van with "Free Candy!" on the side while I'm at home in bed watching Boardwalk Empire lol

--Nat


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

NGeorge said:


> I decided to listen to the full 17 minute version of Rhapsody In Blue via Youtube on the Tivo... 2 minutes in "BRAAAAPPP!" and a minute long garbled test (about 3x louder than the music) where I was *then dumped to the local public access channel with a group of potheads celebrating the new marijuana legalization here in Washington*.


Your Tivo is telling you it's time to light up! Listen. The Tivo is wise.


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## dsnotgood (Aug 26, 2010)

The whole EAS thing is a joke. There were no EAS warnings on sept 11. Or maybe there weren't any because the govt wanted it to happen or did it themselves. Either way...EAS is just another way for the govt to control the media through a hardware means. If they wanted...they can just broadcast the EAS 24/7 and there is nothing we can about it. What a joke.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

dsnotgood said:


> The whole EAS thing is a joke. There were no EAS warnings on sept 11.


That is completely idiotic. First of all, the Series 3 TiVo, the first 3rd party DVR to conform to CableLabs specs, wasn't even introduced until five years later. Secondly, events like the attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon are not what the EAS is intended to address. The EAS is intended to warn the populace of impending disasters so they can take action to prevent loss of life or property. It is not a breaking news channel. Of what, exactly, do you think you should have been warned on 9/11/2001?



dsnotgood said:


> Or maybe there weren't any because the govt wanted it to happen or did it themselves. Either way...EAS is just another way for the govt to control the media through a hardware means. If they wanted...they can just broadcast the EAS 24/7


Your tinfoil hat is looking a bit ragged.



dsnotgood said:


> and there is nothing we can about it.


Sure there is. Turn off your TV and get a life, or at least some professional help.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

NGeorge said:


> I can understand EAS on the radio (I work in broadcasting in fact)... but I wish there was an easy "opt out" option on the TV. Especially for the Amber Alerts--if you're listening the radio, there's a good chance your in your car. As previously stated, I'm not going to catch the van with "Free Candy!" on the side while I'm at home in bed watching Boardwalk Empire lol


And if you are in your living room, there is a slender, but non-zero chance you saw the van parked in the driveway across the street when you walked in the house. Its possible value vastly outweighs all the self-centered, entitled, whining nonsense bandied about here. If the life of only a single person is spared, it is worth thousands of times more than the value extracted by every person from all TV programs every broadcast put together. If every TV on the planet quit working for good, it would be a minor annoyance, and on balance maybe even not a bad thing, all things considered. The loss of any innocent life is a tragedy beyond price.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

morac said:


> Tests need to be done weekly by Government mandate.


That serves no purpose. The "tests" do not provide any metric of how effective the system may be or what might be wrong with it.



morac said:


> The tests are fairly useless though since the one time there was a real emergency, the EAS in my area failed horribly.


They are almost completely useless. That is the problem. I'm not sure there is an effective way to test the system unless sitizen participation on a moderately broad scale is implemented, and in that case, once a calendar quarter is more than sufficient. As it is, the testing is completely worthless, and in fact detrimental.


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## NGeorge (Feb 27, 2004)

lrhorer said:


> That serves no purpose. The "tests" do not provide any metric of how effective the system may be or what might be wrong with it.
> 
> They are almost completely useless. That is the problem. I'm not sure there is an effective way to test the system unless sitizen participation on a moderately broad scale is implemented, and in that case, once a calendar quarter is more than sufficient. As it is, the testing is completely worthless, and in fact detrimental.


I think THIS is the real root of the problem. If the tests weren't as often, the effect wouldn't be quite so desensitizing.

As I mentioned, I work in broadcasting, and have dealt with the tests, as well as configuring the EAS boxes. The new digital boxes can receive information online as well as the traditional "relay" method (station B monitors station A and repeats the message sent by station A etc. down the line) -- there is absolutely no reason these tests can't be carried out with a quick subaudible test tone that can still verify that the relay system is working. In the case of radio and broadcast TV, it would be a quick momentary "blip" to send the test tone down the line, and in the case of cable TV, the headend box would receive the tone, log it, with no interruption to anyone. In the case of a real emergency, the full-on test would be sent.

It's interesting to read the history of EAS -- from CONELRAD to EBS, to analog EAS and the new digital EAS. The heart if the system (and the complexity) lies in the fact that if everything went to hell (say, the internet goes down nation/world wide) it still needs to be able to re-create the old fashioned relay system--which was fine when you actually had real live bodies in the studio and someone who could relay emergency messages when the box went off. With some degree of automation and unmanned control rooms at most stations, the box needs to be able to kick in and trigger these relays.

Nat


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## NGeorge (Feb 27, 2004)

Here's a fun little addition, btw


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## dsnotgood (Aug 26, 2010)

lrhorer said:


> That is completely idiotic. First of all, the Series 3 TiVo, the first 3rd party DVR to conform to CableLabs specs, wasn't even introduced until five years later. Secondly, events like the attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon are not what the EAS is intended to address. The EAS is intended to warn the populace of impending disasters so they can take action to prevent loss of life or property. It is not a breaking news channel. Of what, exactly, do you think you should have been warned on 9/11/2001?
> 
> Your tinfoil hat is looking a bit ragged.
> 
> Sure there is. Turn off your TV and get a life, or at least some professional help.


Life in the matrix must be pretty good. Remember...the govt is YOUR friend. Do and obey whatever they say. If you disagree...tinfoil hat for you! 1984 called....it wants its govt stooge back. People like you are the problem. To do any thinking is forbidden in your matrix world. Good luck and make sure you lick the boots of your guards...you have to show them your a good little slave.


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## SnakeEyes (Dec 26, 2000)

I love the smug and arrogant "enlightened" attitude of conspiracy theorists.


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## dsnotgood (Aug 26, 2010)

SnakeEyes said:


> I love the smug and arrogant "enlightened" attitude of conspiracy theorists.


Lol. I love the people who just "label" everyone into groups they don't agree with. Germany did that too. You would fit right in.


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

dsnotgood said:


> Lol. I love the people who just "label" everyone into groups they don't agree with. Germany did that too. You would fit right in.


This board is 100% liberal and 100% hollywood. To disagree with those ideals on here is almost against the rules. The matrix was the soft version, here you get the fully connected matrix beings.


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## SnakeEyes (Dec 26, 2000)

dsnotgood said:


> Lol. I love the people who just "label" everyone into groups they don't agree with. Germany did that too. You would fit right in.


No, I am not Nazi Germany for describing common characteristics/attitudes of conspiracy theorists.


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## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

NGeorge said:


> I decided to listen to the full 17 minute version of Rhapsody In Blue via Youtube on the Tivo... 2 minutes in "BRAAAAPPP!" and a minute long garbled test (about 3x louder than the music) where I was then dumped to the local public access channel with a group of potheads celebrating the new marijuana legalization here in Washington.
> 
> --Nat


Wow, that would F*** a good high. Two minutes into a good doobie you got a screeching tone followed by a dude yelling at you about some S*** you're too high to run from anyway. Then a commercial saying POT is now taxed so the price just went up...

Bummer... You need a new drug... One that won't let that matter...


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Soapm said:


> ...
> 
> Bummer... You need a new drug... One that won't let that matter...


So, have they got Huey Lewis and the News on YouTube?


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

there is no way to prevent it


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

You can't block it, but just to repeat yet again -- you can put your Tivo in standby to at least not have recordings potentially wrecked.

Though even there, it seems better than it used to be. Does the EAS now only bother the 'current' tuner you're watching? The last time I noticed it hit me a couple of weeks ago, I was annoyed and checked some other recordings that were going on, and they weren't affected.. but it was still in the CNN buffer I had (and whether it's the buffer or recordings, the EAS really messes with FF -- it always jumps to the EAS within about 10-15 minutes of it in the recording.. so I have to 30 second skip up to it to see if there's anything I want to see in that portion..)

I swear it used to hit all tuners, e.g. 4 shows recording at once, all get the EAS embedded in the recording (if it's not in standby).


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

mattack said:


> Though even there, it seems better than it used to be. Does the EAS now only bother the 'current' tuner you're watching? The last time I noticed it hit me a couple of weeks ago, I was annoyed and checked some other recordings that were going on, and they weren't affected.. but it was still in the CNN buffer I had (and whether it's the buffer or recordings, the EAS really messes with FF -- it always jumps to the EAS within about 10-15 minutes of it in the recording.. so I have to 30 second skip up to it to see if there's anything I want to see in that portion..)
> 
> I swear it used to hit all tuners, e.g. 4 shows recording at once, all get the EAS embedded in the recording (if it's not in standby).


I've never seen an EAS warning recorded in a show here but I think it depends on how the EAS is being delivered by your local cable company.

Scott


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

HerronScott said:


> I've never seen an EAS warning recorded in a show here but I think it depends on how the EAS is being delivered by your local cable company.
> 
> Scott


I recall a thread/post (which I can't find now) where it was explained that there are three different types of EAS technical mechanisms -- so yes, it is likely that behavior will depend on how your local cable system implements them. In the 8 years I've had digital TiVo's, all on the same cable system, I've seen the behavior vary all over the place. Thus I would be skeptical that even putting your TiVo in standby will guarantee uninterrupted recordings on **all** systems. Not surprisingly, providing a uniform EAS experience to TiVo users is probably down around item 1000 on their to-do list.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

dlfl said:


> I recall a thread/post (which I can't find now) where it was explained that there are three different types of EAS technical mechanisms -- so yes, it is likely that behavior will depend on how your local cable system implements them. In the 8 years I've had digital TiVo's, all on the same cable system, I've seen the behavior vary all over the place. Thus I would be skeptical that even putting your TiVo in standby will guarantee uninterrupted recordings on **all** systems. Not surprisingly, providing a uniform EAS experience to TiVo users is probably down around item 1000 on their to-do list.


I'm not sure if there are 3, but I know there are at least 2:

1. EAS sends a signal which tells the box to change to a specific channel were the EAS alert is display. This is the original way of displaying EAS back before there were digital boxes. This type of EAS is recorded.
2. The EAS message is sent as part of the digital control channel which contains the message and causes it to be displayed over the current channel. This type of EAS is not recorded. It is basically what should be used for digital cable and has been around since 2007. See http://www.scte.org/documents/pdf/Standards/ANSI_SCTE 18 2007 J-STD-042A 2007.pdf

Which system is used depends entirely on your cable company and local headend's equipment. At this point since nearly all cable systems are digital only, the second version of the EAS should be used nearly everywhere, but many cable companies are too cheap to update their equipment. For example, I have Comcast and my EAS alerts are always recorded. Granted I haven't seen an actual EAS alert in several years. I did see a monthly test the other day, which occurred at 3 AM. I almost never have recordings around that time.

I made a post about this 6 years ago in Comcast's forums, Why does Comcast use the older intrusive analog EA... - Xfinity Help and Support Forums which never received a response.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

morac said:


> I'm not sure if there are 3, but I know there are at least 2:
> 
> 1. EAS sends a signal which tells the box to change to a specific channel were the EAS alert is display. This is the original way of displaying EAS back before there were digital boxes. This type of EAS is recorded.
> 2. The EAS message is sent as part of the digital control channel which contains the message and causes it to be displayed over the current channel. This type of EAS is not recorded. It is basically what should be used for digital cable and has been around since 2007. See http://www.scte.org/documents/pdf/Standards/ANSI_SCTE 18 2007 J-STD-042A 2007.pdf


Initially, all the work of EAS was done at the head-end. The video feed for all the channels was hijacked and switched over to the output from the EAS character generator. There was no client-side channel switching, because most cable boxes and all cable-ready televisions weren't "addressable" - they were simply tuners/decoders.

It wasn't until the addressable converter that cable systems first had the ability to tell the boxes to perform actions, like switching cable channels. Even then, the old "hijack the channel feed" method still worked, so why change... and besides, that still left cable-ready televisions that weren't addressable.

I'd wager that there are still some systems that are doing things the old way, although I'd hope that most larger cable systems have switched over to one of the methods you describe (or, unfortunately, both simultaneously, which I have seen on our cable system here.)


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## FitzAusTex (May 7, 2014)

Spectrum/TWC in Austin has EAS around 2 or 3am Monday mornings, which is actually annoying as hell since I push some recordings off till then since my 4 tuner roamio is slammed Sunday night with just about every show I record for the week airing Sunday night. 

The EAS causes anything recording at the time to have a gap.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I don't find the weekly, monthly, yearly tests plus weather and amber alerts annoying since the usually happen during the day. I wish I could block school closings on late night programs during the winter. On my feed, those cause the aspect ratio to get changed to make the crawl fit. I really hate snow. My feed causes all tuners to switch to my Information channel then the alert test happens at twice normal volume. As soon as I see it coming, I hit mute. But all tuners switch back. I keep the Mini boxes in Standby when not in use.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

morac said:


> 2. The EAS message is sent as part of the digital control channel which contains the message and causes it to be displayed over the current channel. This type of EAS is not recorded. It is basically what should be used for digital cable and has been around since 2007.


You say it's not recorded, but does the Tivo continue to record the ORIGINAL channel, without a gap, while this happens?

I would say I'm 100% positive that I've seen EASes show up in live TV buffering _and_ recordings, obviously all digital, within the last year, and probably much more recently than that... But I did notice what I said above recently, that even on an awake Tivo (I think it was my premiere 4), that at least the background tuners' recordings weren't affected.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

mattack said:


> You say it's not recorded, but does the Tivo continue to record the ORIGINAL channel, without a gap, while this happens?
> 
> I would say I'm 100% positive that I've seen EASes show up in live TV buffering _and_ recordings, obviously all digital, within the last year, and probably much more recently than that... But I did notice what I said above recently, that even on an awake Tivo (I think it was my premiere 4), that at least the background tuners' recordings weren't affected.


If I understand your question correctly, the answer is yes, the original recording on the original channel is just fine, no gap and no EAS overlay. Comcast in Houston uses #2 from above, so we don't have the problems others do.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

With FIOS in South Jersey I have seen EAS as early as 12:30am. Ideally they should only issue them at 3:45am. This is 15 minutes before the earliest morning newscasts and late enough where you wouldn't be recording anything. The cable operators tell you that EAS test messages can be issued at anytime. Start sending them out at 9pm on a Sunday and see how long that lasts.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

JackStraw said:


> With FIOS in South Jersey I have seen EAS as early as 12:30am. Ideally they should only issue them at 3:45am. This is 15 minutes before the earliest morning newscasts and late enough where you wouldn't be recording anything. The cable operators tell you that EAS test messages can be issued at anytime. Start sending them out at 9pm on a Sunday and see how long that lasts.


I have the type 2 system so it's not too big of a deal. But yes, it would be nice if they tested the system in the middle of the night. It's annoying when you are watching a recorded program and the EAS system flips you to a live tuner and you have to wait out the message.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

UCLABB said:


> I have the type 2 system so it's not too big of a deal. But yes, it would be nice if they tested the system in the middle of the night. It's annoying when you are watching a recorded program and the EAS system flips you to a live tuner and you have to wait out the message.


New Jersey local authorities love sending out EAS test messages. They live for it.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

JackStraw said:


> Ideally they should only issue them at 3:45am. This is 15 minutes before the earliest morning newscasts and late enough where you wouldn't be recording anything.


I record World News Now, which airs then.


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## idksmy (Jul 16, 2016)

No matter when they air them, someone would whine about it.


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## MLM1 (Apr 26, 2008)

idksmy said:


> No matter when they air them, someone would whine about it.


Comcast issued a "required weekly test" at 8:42 am on 9/11, during the remembrance ceremony. My wife freaked out.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

mattack said:


> I record World News Now, which airs then.


As was said, if you have type 2 system then recordings are unaffected. To impact the least amount of people, send tests in the middle of the night just like the way TiVo reboots after an update (usually).


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## KimHedrick (Oct 12, 2014)

We were watching recordings Monday night and were interrupted 5 or 6 times with warnings of bad weather in the area. I had about 5 or 6 programs recording between 8 and 11:00 and none of them had any breaks in them. It appears only the tuner we were viewing showed the warnings.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

Gah! Watching a recording this afternoon and I get yanked out of it to a football game with an EAS message overlay. Not only did I have to watch an incredibly slow scroll of a message about tornado warnings (telling me to stay inside, which is where I already was), but then I got to watch the same incredibly slow scroll with the spanish version of the message. Somehow I was spared the creole version (which should have been there since I suspect there are more people with creole as their native language in this area of south Palm Beach county than spanish).

Naturally when the message ended, the TiVo did NOT take me back to my recording. I had to manually get back there again.

The only real surprise was that it didn't interrupt me several more times as the weather service made microscopic adjustments to their estimates .


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

OK, just last night I had the normal 1AM Friday EAS test (though I swear it's sometimes on Saturday instead.. but it is 1AM).

It broke me out of Hulu too (I just started the free trial a few days ago, and am getting even lazier -- for shows that show up there, even if they have skip mode on the Tivo, I'll watch a day later on Hulu. Annoying since you don't have good FF/rewind, but still nice)..

Anyway, I checked the recordings that were happening, and did NOT see the EAS in the recording..

BUT then I went to live TV, and there WAS an EAS in the CNN buffer... but it seemed to keep skipping it in a weird way when I'd go back to it (I'd see a brief flicker of it or something).. So I skipped back, and managed to crash the Tivo by going back to the EAS in the buffer over and over..

But at least one or two of the recordings (I think some were suggestions) did not have the EAS in the recording at 1AM. So maybe circumstantial evidence that it is only the 'current' tuner affected nowadays, even for those kind of alerts?


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