# Using Tivo and V+ with Virgin Media



## SteveMcC (Feb 18, 2004)

It seems that, in my area at least, VirginMedia are doing a deal where I could get a V+ box plus a separate "standard" set top digital TV box. Haven't found any reference on this site to anyone having this setup yet, but do you think I'd be able to use my Tivo to record from the "standard" set top box, and then also use the V+ box to record any other channels that clash? I'm guessing that the "standard" set top box will be able to show programmes independently of the V+ box. I'm not too bothered about having a V+ box; I'd rather use the Tivo, but this combination could be pretty usefull. For me, the Virginmedia packages seem to mean I could save quite a bit each month (though who knows when they'll up their prices!). 

I'm currently using an old Sky set top box; presumably if I go to Virginmedia, I'll just have to do another guided setup on the Tivo.

Thanks for any help.

Steve


----------



## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

You're referring to one of the VIP (that's Very Impressive Packages!). This is a new, national deal and, by all accounts, is selling very well.

As far as I know there's no problem at all with the Tivo controlling any of the possible STBs you'll get from VM whether it be the older Pace or the newest Samsung.

There are a couple of ways to do it. You could use the Tivo with your main TV and the V+ with your secondary one or, you could use your Tivo to control the 'external' tuner on the V+ box* or, if you get an obliging install engineer then you could ask him to fit a splitter and set up the V+ and seperate box from the same outlet into the same TV 

*They have three tuners. Two are internal and used for recording stuff you set. The third is the one you control with the remote.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> You're referring to one of the VIP (that's Very Impressive Packages!).


I thought it stood for Very Imminently Poor?


----------



## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Oh very droll  Actually, it's not a bad deal. £122's-worth of (if rented seperately) for £85 per month; for the cheaper one. The cost saving on the other one is dependent on which phone you get.


----------



## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

Look at them prices...... Very silly indeed


----------



## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Quite a long thread on the TV Drive (aka V+) here


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

6022tivo said:


> Look at them prices...... Very silly indeed


Fortunately for them there are plenty of well paid silly people about with lots of money to waste.


----------



## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

I was going to ask what you thought was 'silly' about them, but I'm not sure I'm really that bothered


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> I was going to ask what you thought was 'silly' about them, but I'm not sure I'm really that bothered


The silliness would be entering into a big annual contract for lots of pay tv and mobile phone minutes that they may not really need if they thought about it slightly harder.

I speak as one who used to spash out quite a bit on such things but don't now and don't feel I am really missing anything of note.


----------



## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Okay. On that point I sort-of agree with you. As I may have pointed-out somewhere already, having had to do without cable for a while I suddenly realised that only about a quarter of my SPs were actually on channels _not_ on Freeview.

That said, if I didn't have a Tivo then I would need a V+ and, if I had the money, probably would have at least the movie channels more often, etc.

So if you do find that you need all that, an (approx.) £40 per month saving is actually not a bad thing 

Like I said, I do take your point though.


----------



## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

I don't think there is anypoint also anymore, maybe for the sport?? Occasionally, use newsnet for NipTuck, and all the Sky one stuff I like, and the movies I have norrmally watched at the flicks.

I did however see a very odd advert during/after the football on Sky this afternoon. 

It was targetted at NTL:VIRGIN and the ad was a Sky ad, saying NTL:VIRGIN are planning to drop some channels (it did list but did not take notice), the ad went on to say as a NTL:VIRGIN customer you are going to miss out on watching... (Again a list I did not pay attention to). To discuss this with your provider NTL:VIRGIN please phone 0845 ..... (Did not take a note.)


I thought this may be of interest to some people.


----------



## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

6022tivo said:


> I did however see a very odd advert during/after the football on Sky this afternoon.


Yeah. I saw it before and during "24"; naturally.



> It was targetted at NTL:VIRGIN and the ad was a Sky ad, saying NTL:VIRGIN are planning to drop some channels (it did list but did not take notice), the ad went on to say as a NTL:VIRGIN customer you are going to miss out on watching... (Again a list I did not pay attention to). To discuss this with your provider NTL:VIRGIN please phone 0845 ..... (Did not take a note.)




I'm still figuring out how to get it of the DVD and into an MPG file 

I'm going to make a new one...

"If you're a Virgin Media customer then you'll know that Sky are acting in their usual, monopolistic fashion and holding your favourite shows to ransom.", etc. 

You'll notice that I got the name of the company correct, but Sky didnt


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Even odder that they are complaining about the removal of Sky News and Sky Sports News when they are unlilaterally planning to take those away from all Freeview customers. Strange that they think Virgin NTL customers ought to keep them but Freeview viewers should not?


----------



## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

Sky are probably planning to charge for them, getting rid of them on freeview and providing them free to sky customers, or inc in a package. Meaning Virgin will now have to pay for them, that is why sky claim that virgin are planning to drop the channels.

I think it is a very very naughty advert, all broadcast by sky only on their cable feed, sky digital customers are not seeing the ad's, but a program promo at the same time as VIRGIN customers are seeing this crap.

The way they list NTL:VIRGIN's number at the end.

I really dislike tatics like this.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

6022tivo said:


> I think it is a very very naughty advert, all broadcast by sky only on their cable feed, sky digital customers are not seeing the ad's, but a program promo at the same time as VIRGIN customers are seeing this crap.


You would think Virgin might be able to take out an injunction of some kind, especially as it encourages Virgin customers to ring its phone number in relation to a matter only Sky has deemed to be important.

Also isn't this the kind of thing the Competition Commission is meant to be there to investigate?

There must be a limit to the number of channels Sky can encrypt on its own platform due to its obligations to www.freesatfromsky.co.uk project surely? It must still have to provide an acceptable range of minimum channel choice under that mustn't it?


----------



## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

6022tivo said:


> The way they list NTL:VIRGIN's number at the end.


Wrong company name and old phone number too


----------



## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Bump.

VirginMedia are trying to tempt me with a V+ box on very good terms. But I'm wondering - having read this thread - whether it's going to actually be a benefit to me. In other words, it's very well them saying I'll be saving £x, but if you don't need the functionality, there's no saving.

Can I just clarify one point. If I have the TiVo connected to the V+ box, and the TiVo is recording, I cannot watch a live TV channel, and change live TV channels? In other words, no different from now.

I'm not interested in "you can use the old box..." points here - again, no point for no change in situation. The only time V+ would be a plus for me (ha ha) is if I can use TiVo to record while watching something live. For no cost.


----------



## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

I had V+ installed yesterday and have it connected to and it controls the live tuner just as it would a standard cable STB.

You are right about not watching other functions whilst Tivo is recording but if I want to watch something on VOD for instance I choose not to have Tivo recording and if there is a programme clash just use one of the V+ internal tuners.

It is possible to watch a V+ recording without affecting the Tivo if you use the copy to VCR/DVD option. I have the V+ VCR output routed via my DVD recorder.

My original setup was 4mb BB, TV XL with Sky Sports and basic telephone options with the cable box feeding my No1 Tivo and a 2nd Tivo fed from a freeview box. NOW I have Virgins VIP package all for slightly less money giving me the extra V+ box (replaced freeview box on 2nd Tivo) 10mb BB all Sky Movies and Sports and free landline calls plus a couple of other phone bits.

All in all I am very happy. As you can see with this setup I can record up to 4 different cable channels at the same time whilst still being able to playback up to 2 Tivo recordings.

I know I know I can't watch 2 recordings at the same time but because I distribute around the house SWMBO can watch what she likes upstairs if she wants too. 

Very happy.   Well done Virgin Media and I for one won't miss Sky One


----------



## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Richard - intriguing. First, I think we need to start a new thread to find out how you're distributing the signal around as that's of particular interest to me for a home project.

Second, I think I'm being dim. OK - so live TV can't be watched while TiVo is recording as is the case now. But can you do time-delayed watching?

So let's imagine that SHMBO wants to watch some singing on ice dancing programme on ITV while I want to record Dragons Den on BBC2 (not a real example). At the moment we'd use the TiVo to record one while watching the other on another telly.

Could we record one, and *start* recording the other, then time-slip it? In other words, can you watch a recording as it happens - Dragons Den being recorded by TiVo and singing on ice dancing being watched as it's recorded (albeit watching 10 minutes in the past)? That would be an acceptable alternative.


----------



## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

> Richard - intriguing. First, I think we need to start a new thread to find out how you're distributing the signal around as that's of particular interest to me for a home project.


I will join you on your new thread.



> Second, I think I'm being dim. OK - so live TV can't be watched while TiVo is recording as is the case now. But can you do time-delayed watching?


No you are not dim (although it must be dark under that bag  ). My post must have misled you. Of course you can watch live what the Tivo is recording just as always. What I meant to imply was that you cannot change channel on the V+ box or playback anything from it whilst Tivo is recording.
What I have done is put the V+ remote on top of the Tivo and only use it when there is no red recording light on on the Tivo. Just a matter of forming a habit.



> Could we record one, and *start* recording the other, then time-slip it? In other words, can you watch a recording as it happens - Dragons Den being recorded by TiVo and singing on ice dancing being watched as it's recorded (albeit watching 10 minutes in the past)? That would be an acceptable alternative.


I think it could be just possible but a little fiddly because while using the V+ menus to achieve copy to VCR/DVD the menus would show up on the live tuner (the one the Tivo sees). I haven't tried it yet but if I get a chance tomorrow while SWMBO is at work I will do so and report back.

Colin are you already on cable and if you are will you being keeping the existing STB.


----------



## markabuckley (Dec 23, 2004)

you can get some great deals with VM - a couple of weeks ago I phoned up and said I fancied the VIP package but didn't really need 10MB

so I'm now on

TV XL + Sky Movies + Sky Sport
4MB Broadband
Unlimited (land-line) Phone-calls free (Telephone XL)
Virgin + Box
and keep my old box (which will be connected to TIVO)

£55 a month 

Mark.


----------



## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

That seems a very cheap deal


----------



## markabuckley (Dec 23, 2004)

yup - I was quite pleased  I must be quite a good customer too as I didn't have to haggle - was the first offer they offered  I was worried about TIVO connected to V+ Box - but didn't want to lose TIVO functionality - so with extra box - I'll just have the old box connected to the TIVO box as per normal and the V+ box connected directly to the TV via HDMI )

Mark.


----------



## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

Having successfully used my V+ box with Tivo it became increasing obvious that using the two together was placing limitations on how and when I could make use of the other benefits of the V+ box like playing back V+ recordings. This was not possible without upsetting any recording that was being made on the Tivo at that time.

Consequently I have reverted that Tivo back to using a Freeview box as its source.

The V+ box is a very good bit of kit albeit the EPG is nowhere as good as Tivo and it certainly isn't as easy to find programmes to record, it does not have any title search.

As my other Tivo uses a standard cable box as its source I search using its EPG and then using that info for time and channel set the V+ recordings.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

RichardJH said:


> As my other Tivo uses a standard cable box as its source I search using its EPG and then using that info for time and channel set the V+ recordings.


So the V+ only operates like a glorified HD video recorder without tapes from the sound of it?


----------



## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

Pete that is a little unfair on a very good bit of kit. For a new user who hans't experienced a Tivo then they will be amazed. Its just us the converted and then left behind by Tivo that would level criticism   
I haven't ever used Sky + or Sky + HD but I bet it doesn't get near to a Tivo.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

RichardJH said:


> I haven't ever used Sky + or Sky + HD but I bet it doesn't get near to a Tivo.


No a Sky+ box doesn't get near a Tivo for functionality but it now sounds as though the functionality of a V+ box (nee Tv Drive) is even more limited than a Sky+ box despite its three tuners.

As A V+ box could run the latest Tivo S3 software, if only Mr Richard Branson had the political will to let it do so, then there really is no excuse at all for this. :down:


----------



## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

> functionality of a V+ box (nee Tv Drive) is even more limited


Not sure that even that comment is quite true. It does have a 14 day EPG and is vey easy to program using that and I haven't had any problems with series link. What I miss most is the ability to search by title and view upcoming broadcasts hence my continued use of the Tivo EPG for some situations. For instance I wanted to record the film Valiant but forgot to preset the V+ box so film had already started. Used Tivo to search for Valiant and then upcoming programmes which then listed all showings across all the film channels much quicker than trawling the V+ EPG.

Once again I must say a very good bit of kit just not as good Tivo.

IF ONLY we had Tivo S2 or S3


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

RichardJH said:


> Once again I must say a very good bit of kit just not as good Tivo.
> 
> IF ONLY we had Tivo S2 or S3


I'm sure the kit is every bit as good as or indeed much better than a Tivo S1 box, its just the inferior third rate software application that lets it down and spoils the whole ship for the proverbial hapennyworth of tar.

What V+ owners like you need to be doing is writing to the senior management of Virgin Media and saying that you are a UK Tivo owner and are hugely disappointed with the software functionality on the V+ box. Especially no View Upcoming Programs etc.

You need to point to the version of the Tivo software recently released to run on almost any modern cable box platform and suggest that it is vital they get Tivo software on Virgin Media boxes as the way to strike back against Sky and make Sky+ look third rate and shoddy after all the humiliation they have suffered at the hands of Sky over the loss of the basic Sky channels. Its no good having 3 tuners if you don't have the software needed to make the best use of them.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Here are Virgin Media's senior management:-

http://pressoffice.virginmedia.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=205406&p=irol-whoswho

I imagine [email protected] might well get there.


----------



## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

RichardJH said:


> Having successfully used my V+ box with Tivo it became increasing obvious that using the two together was placing limitations on how and when I could make use of the other benefits of the V+ box like playing back V+ recordings. This was not possible without upsetting any recording that was being made on the Tivo at that time.


Richard, sorry to labour the point but is this correct?

Playing back a V+ recording affects the output of the third tuner to Tivo?

I suppose there is some logic to it in that the output to the TV would be expected to be either the third tuner or a recording, but not both.


----------



## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

I'm not sure about this one. Here's what I know.

- The V+ uses two 'internal' tuners for it's own recordings. The third 'external' tuner is the one that the user (or, in this case Tivo) uses.

- There are two decoders. One for watching recorded programmes and one for independent outputting to DVD/VCR.

I suppose that when the decoder is being used to play-back a recorded programme, this might not allow the Tivo to record from the 'external' tuner. Then again, the V+ is working correctly, as it wasn't expected that it would have to work with another, external DVR


----------



## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

You are right Carl. Because the 2 "non-live" tuners record direct to the hard drive they have to use the decoder that is used by the Live TV tuner hence any playback would immediately be seen by the Tivo, also just like using VOD on a standard cable STB.

The 2nd decoder used for record to VCR/DVD can be used to view via the VCR scart but you have to use the live tv scart out to view the menus so that programmes can be selected.

It sounds complicated but I have used it successfully to allow SWMBO to watch a different pre-recorded programme on the upstairs TV while I watch a different programme downstairs.

I have the V+ VCR output routed via my Panasonic DVD recorder AV4 input (composite) and because it has an RF modulated output it can been seen on my other TVs


----------

