# Channels DVR Just Won the Content Aggregation War



## babsonnexus

I didn't think they would do it based upon past response, but Channels DVR has officially added a method to get streaming deep linking into the Channels DVR interface, so there would be one interface for all aggregated content:

*Stream Links*


*Original Request: *Feature Request: Add Realgood or something like it
*Beta Testing: *Experimental: TV/Movie deep-links via imported .strmlnk files
They also are now integrated with PlayOn which records content from streaming services like Netflix/Hulu/Etc... and allows you to either store it in the cloud or locally. Channels will auto-download what you record from PlayOn, so you can store everything locally if that is your thing:

*PlayOn Cloud*

So basically, for almost any streaming service you can now either have streaming links or download and store them locally, depending upon your preference and network bandwidth.

I have not tested any of this myself yet, but will be doing so in the near future. Neither solution--nor other features like integrating Pluto and other m3u sources--sound non-techie friendly, but it would be fine for those inclined (like me!) who don't mind managing for the entire family. And given these are the first pass, with time they should actually get more user friendly!

Just note that right now they are claiming they have no intention of adding the discover/search/add features into the Channels DVR UI (or do anything like Realgood/Justwatch does of keeping track of services as programs move or get added elsewhere), so you will have to do everything manually right now. However, they claimed just a year ago they would never do content aggregation, so I believe they'll see the value and do this, just not immediately.


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## ke3ju

I've only been using Channels for about a month, but so far I like it. I hate the Client interface, so I wrote scripts to automatically move everything recorded to Plex with the commercials cut out and all the errors remuxed out.

I'll check this stuff out. Thanks for posting!!!


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## jwort93

Is PlayOn still limited to 720p video and stereo audio? If so, it’s pretty much worthless, at least for me IMO. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## babsonnexus

jwort93 said:


> Is PlayOn still limited to 720p video and stereo audio? If so, it's pretty much worthless, at least for me IMO.


I've never used it myself, but what from what I was reading on the Channels DVR board, the answer seems to be yes and everyone has the same feeling you do about that.

The Channels DVR Developers made it VERY clear they do not want to create this functionality themselves to get top quality. Again, though, given time they may change their minds!


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## mike3y

The big take away will be somebody or groups of people hosting stream links for us to use.


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## babsonnexus

mike3y said:


> The big take away will be somebody or groups of people hosting stream links for us to use.


Here you go: maddox/channels-strmlnks

To be clear, these are links to individual movies and episodes on various services which you can get yourself. The owner of the repository just did a scrape of what was in Reelgood (which is about 85% accurate overall, but higher on the big services). In order to access them, you have to have a subscription to the service, so nothing untoward about them!

Now, I think you might be talking about streaming channels, which is a totally different thing. But, of course, Channels DVR will allow you to add any custom stream m3u channel you like and record off of it if you have the metadata:

Add Custom Channels with M3U Playlists

If someone happens to be hosting an m3u stream that is of... questionable legality... you could theoretically add it to Channels DVR as a live channel that you could record off of. Or maybe you just want to make one of a live stream from giraffe enclosure! All those options are available for you.


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## mike3y

babsonnexus said:


> Here you go: maddox/channels-strmlnks
> 
> To be clear, these are links to individual movies and episodes on various services which you can get yourself. The owner of the repository just did a scrape of what was in Reelgood (which is about 85% accurate overall, but higher on the big services). In order to access them, you have to have a subscription to the service, so nothing untoward about them!
> 
> Now, I think you might be talking about streaming channels, which is a totally different thing. But, of course, Channels DVR will allow you to add any custom stream m3u channel you like and record off of it if you have the metadata:
> 
> Add Custom Channels with M3U Playlists
> 
> If someone happens to be hosting an m3u stream that is of... questionable legality... you could theoretically add it to Channels DVR as a live channel that you could record off of. Or maybe you just want to make one of a live stream from giraffe enclosure! All those options are available for you.


Correct. I'm speaking about Channels DVR which I have been using for years.

this is great their coming up with awesome ideas. However, you still need somebody to maintain a repository of stream links. I think it's way to much manual work for one person to do it and manage it. I see people getting tired of management real fast.

As for m3u's, in terms of what source you're using. Tivimate does a match better job in terms of live viewing. As for recording channels dvr wins but since most of these m3u's are not flagged with TV or movie they all get dumped into the tv section and there's no ability to do series recording.


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## scottchez

I just compared Channels to YouTube TV.

Really missed the Picture in Picture that YouTube TV has, also the picture quality was worse on Channels, I think as it decode or down resez on the local recording where Youtube TV has the full picture both live and recorded.
Also channel channels was slow.
It did have both east and west cost feeds so that was a plus for most channels.

Any way to get PiP on a TIVO
What if I want to watch the Real Youtube tV recording?


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## Pokemon_Dad

scottchez said:


> I just compared Channels to YouTube TV.
> 
> Really missed the Picture in Picture that YouTube TV has, also the picture quality was worse on Channels, I think as it decode or down resez on the local recording where Youtube TV has the full picture both live and recorded.
> Also channel channels was slow.
> It did have both east and west cost feeds so that was a plus for most channels.
> 
> Any way to get PiP on a TIVO
> What if I want to watch the Real Youtube tV recording?


As far as I know Channels DVR doesn't downrez the stream unless you set your local client to do that. Not sure what's happening there, but if you didn't do that then the cause may be the source. As for PIP, Channels DVR recently got that feature for some clients but the implementation is a bit of a kludge because of all the extremely simple remotes out there. Which client platform are you using?


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## babsonnexus

OK, I've been testing/setting things up for over a week, and I have some general notes:


This is not for the non-technical type.
You will have to do a lot of manual work to set it up, including getting links down to individual episodes and setting up files for each in a specific file directory format.
Not everything works with deep linking. Netflix, Hulu, and Disney+ have been fine in my testing, and others have said that HBO Max, Prime, and CBS AA/Paramount+ are working, too. But others like Peacock have not worked on Android TV (but apparently do work on the web and Apple TV). Yet more like Hoopla open the phone app instead of the TV app and Kanopy does not work at all. This is actually a fault of the app developers and not Channels, but it is a limitation to consider.
If you screw up setting up a file or need to replace a link, you need to delete the file, run a purge, and then add it again. It does not do replacements or rechecks (yet). EDIT: You can actually use a "Refresh Metadata" option in the Web UI to fix a link, so long as you are not moving the file itself (see below). However, this is per movie/episode, so if you screw up a bunch at once, I think the purge method would actually be faster.

"Deleting" within Channels removes a program from view, but does not remove the linking file. If your recycle bin gets cleared out (which it will do automatically after X amount of days), the program will return. You have to go in and manually delete the file. And again, doing this will require running a purge afterwards to make sure it does not come back.
Metadata is not perfect. It is dependent upon Gracenotes and it will about 10% of the time either not recognize the media by name, pick the wrong thing for something with a similar name, or not be available at all. It is pretty easy to change the metadata (if a match is available, no personal metadata yet), but you have to watch out. The Devs say they are looking into adding additional metadata to fix gaps in Gracenotes (I think we are talking about Guidebox, which is owned by Reelgood. Another option would be JustWatch's data, which I would prefer because it is much more accurate), as well as allowing personal metadata.

Maintenance is everything because nothing is automatic (except scanning of new files). Have a show that is episodic weekly? Then you are adding the file when a new episode premiers. Movie goes from being on Netflix to being on Prime? You have to delete it, purge, and create a new link. Disney+ drops five seasons of a show on its service? Enjoy getting links for all 126 episodes that you can only get by literally launching each episode.
This function is really in Alpha development and we are definitely paying for the pleasure of being testers. Good news is the Devs are very responsive to issues and have made some small fixes already. For instance, there was a server hangup when adding large amounts of Stream Links at once. They fixed it a few hours after someone noted the issue in an early release version of the server software.
However, the Devs are not seeing the big picture of Channels being the single aggregated source for all content and thought this was just "to add a few programs". It has become abundantly clear that most people doing this are more like me and want to get EVERYTHING under one roof, even if that means the entire catalogue of Netflix. The Devs are hesitant to come around to this line of thinking, so judging by past experience it will be at least a year until they start to make this more user friendly, automatic, and less resource intensive.
That all said, I'd rather do this than manage in Realgood/Justwatch/Google/Stream App, something else for recording, and Plex for personal files. Oh, did I mention that personal media files can also be added? This function is also in Alpha and works well in some areas and doesn't work at all in others, but still a step up. I'd rather use Plex on an exception basis instead of a normal basis. So now I've got streaming, TV recordings, and personal media all in one place in a fairly easy to navigate menu. I've also set up my Plex server to see the Channels directory, so if anything I record I'd rather view or need to see in there instead, it is not an issue.

Further, my TV consists of my OTA (HDHomeRun), a TVE through a family member, and Pluto all in one guide, all with only the channels I want to see, all with automatically updating guide data, and all that can record with automatic commercial skip. You can set up a lot more sources than that, but that's enough for me.

Interestingly enough, if you want to do this setup, I'd recommend using a de-TiVO'd Stream 4K+ for the front end interface. Chromecast with Google TV has disabled the ability to do Picture-in-Picture, so even though it is better hardware and has better software upkeep, the TS4k+ is actually superior for functionality. Beyond that, Channels can automatically integrate into the TS4K+ remote and take over its functions; and the TS4K+ remote is already better in all respects than the one from CCWGTV (I'm using a Sofabaton with that).

In case you are wondering, I'm using a very old, underpowered Windows laptop for my Channels server. You don't need much, which is why you could actually install the server on TS4K+ or CCWGTC and attach an external HD. You could also go low-end with a Raspberry Pi or high end with an NVidia Shield (the latter directly connected to a TV would probably create the best experience).


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## Pokemon_Dad

Last week one of the Channels devs was interviewed on the Average Guy Network podcast (available in audio or video), and briefly discussed their thinking on this topic: Jon Maddox from Channels - HGG480 Jump to 6:30 minutes to avoid discussion of the recent crazy weather, lol.


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## SleepyD

The Channels DVR is amazing. It is what got me to kick TiVo to the curb. We had been antenna TiVo users since 2011. We switched this past December. I bought a TiVo Bolt three years ago because I was supposed to be able to watch recorded shows in another room with a FireTV stick. They killed that app right before I bought it. I didn't know that. What made me want leave TiVo was when they announced apps for media streamers to watch recorded shows from another room and then never put them out.


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## DBV1

Does the Channels DVR and channels still have worse quality than TiVo? The last time I tested it, which was Fall 2020, the TiVo had much better quality on some stations. Really liked the idea and was very simple to use, but will not suffer on the quality side.


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## reneg

I don't think quality has changed much since Fall 2020. Quality on Channels DVR varies depending on your source, just like Tivo. My OTA channels go through a HD Homerun and are better than the recompressed feeds I was getting through Comcast on Tivo. For TV Everywhere channels on Channels DVR, there are a variety of 720 & 1080 channels at either 30 or 60 fps with 2 channel audio. Some are better quality than I got on Comcast, some are worse. I still use Tivo primarily for OTA recordings but their slacking off on marking Skip points on commercials may make me rethink that.


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## DBV1

Thanks for the feedback. That is good to know on the OTA channels, as I never tested that. I only tested the TV Everywhere. If the OTA quality is as good or better than TiVo, then that would be great. Do you use TiVo and Channels? 

If getting the HD Homerun would you get the new ATSC 3.0 version? The advantage of the Channels App is I can watch my OTA anywhere - correct?

Could I also do that with a TiVo Edge? I have a TiVo Roamio now and having RF issues with it, so thinking of replacing with TiVo Edge or the Channels/HD Homerun.


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## babsonnexus

For picture quality, I would say the difference is between a direct COAX connection and streaming over the internet. Since Channels is the latter for everything, it is going to depend on the source itself (HDHR vs. TVE vs. m3u), the server device, the internet connection, and the device you are using as the head. I would say the quality is mildly worse, but not so much that it bothers me in any way.

I have completely gone in with Channels and sold off all my TiVO hardware. Channels' 3-person Dev team with a few contractors for special projects has done more in 6 months than I have seen TiVO do in 6 years. Yes, there are definitely a few things you will lose switching, but they are all so minor compared to what you gain.

I bought the HDHR 3.0 version. All 4 tuners can do 1.0 and 2 of the tuners can do 3.0 (if it is available in your area). So you lose nothing by going with this device and you are future proofed for when 3.0 becomes available. I found HDHR's reception better than TiVO's for both Roamio and Bolt. But really, you will have better results with antenna placement than any hardware changes. With 1.0 multi-path interference is a massive issue, something 3.0 resolves. Check out "The Antenna Man" on YouTube and you'll get tons of good advice on what you can do better in that regard.

If you are going to stick with local cable and not use any streaming services except maybe YouTube and you never need to access your content anywhere outside of your living room, then you would be better with a new TiVO. If you are doing any other use case, then you should go with Channels.


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## DBV1

Great - thanks for the input. Will get one and test it out. I only use OTA and everything else is streaming, so seems like it fits my use case. As long as OTA recordings are on par with my TiVo, then I would be good and I think more future proof too.


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## Pokemon_Dad

Glad to see you'll try that @DBV1. Channels DVR reproduces whatever you feed it. In my results I too would rate OTA tops (barring reception problems), then cable, then TVE. I have the new HDHR "4K" tuner, and even with only 1.0 stations around here the quality has been wonderful. I also have a Prime with CableCARD, and I have tried TVE but only used it for news shows because TVE does not offer surround sound and the picture is not the best. Also the TVE feature is in perpetual beta because they have to constantly adapt to changes at the providers, so it's not the most stable solution.


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