# Is it worth a 54Mbps wireless ethernet adapter for CacheCard?



## big_dirk (Feb 17, 2006)

Hi all,

I have set up my CacheCard, although want to connect it to my wireless network which has a Netgear DG834G router at the center of it, using a wireless ethernet adapter like the :

Netgear ME101










Or the Buffalo WLI-T1-S11G










Although I'm wondering whether it'd be worth going for a 54Mbs solution, does anyone have any experience of using 54Mbps wireless kit with a cachecard please?

I dont know the speed that the cachecard can output network data, so not sure whether a 54Mbps connection is worth it.

My router can support 802.11g btw.


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

The answers as far as TiVo usage goes, 11Mb (.b) might be OK.

I use a 3rd party reflashed WRT54G (running at 54Mb, but costs only £32) as a wireless bridge to my DG834G ADSL router, using WPA wireless encryption. Works fine.

Most normal TiVo operation ie guide data and TiVoweb you won't notice any difference at 11Mb (.b), but if doing untalkable things from the other place at upto 2MBytes/sec then 11Mb (b) will probably be inadequate, especially if there are other wireless devices wishing to use the bandwidth as well.

Also usage of a .b device (11Mb) on a .g network (54Mb) can seriously slug things, which is why most wireless devices offer a .g only mode, to stop .b devices interfering with the bandwidth. 

So in summary, try and keep everything 54Mb especially as you have a very well specced most wonderful ADSL router of a 54Mb DG834G router.


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## big_dirk (Feb 17, 2006)

Ian, cheers for that, that post has told me a lot I couldn't find from when I searched.

Can I just confirm....You have a Linksys _router_ as your wireless bridge between your TiVo and your Netgear DG834G? If so - £32 seems cheap for a router - where did you get that from!?



> but if doing untalkable things from the other place at upto 2MBytes/sec then 11Mb (b) will probably be inadequate


What are the untalkable things? sorry for my ignorance 

Thanks for the advice on keeping things 54g, you're right in that I dont want to "rock the boat" with my current network which is definately fine as all g devices at the moment!


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

I purchased a Linksys WRT54G (and also a GS) from Ebuyer ages ago, currently £36 at Ebuyer. I reflashed it with DD-WRT, a 3rd party Linux firmware. I did this as wireless bridges when I was setting this up early 2004 cost an absolute fortune £100+, especially if you wanted to attach more than one device to the bridge.

DD-WRT offers a wireless client bridge mode (see attachement), as well as all the other normal router modes (access point, client and Adhoc) which allows devices on the 4 LAN ports to bridge wirelessly to my router. Firmware is here http://www.dd-wrt.com, but be careful, you must get the right revision WRT54G version 4 or below run Linux, V5 runs VxWorks. PCworld Southampton had piles of V4 the other day for £42 or £49. As you can see one of mine (on my TiVo) has been running for 71days, it just works, but there is plenty to fiddle with if you feel so inclined eg wireless power above 28mW !!!

Anyway firmware revisions at:
http://www.linksysinfo.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=31

The untalkable things are, once I used to record the output of my TiVo onto DVD+R/+RW using my Philips DVDR890, then edit on PC etc etc, but now with a network card (an 54Mb connection) I can miss out the recording on DVDR890 bit, but discussion of such a process is not allowed on this site.


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## ndunlavey (Jun 4, 2002)

Ah ... I have a WRT54G I've been thinking of reflashing with Alchemy, but that all looked a bit intimidating. This DD-WRT stuff looks a bit more straightforward.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

I get decent transfer rates from a cachcard using a 54g Buffalo router configured as a bridge.

There are good reasons not to add a 11b device to your network if everything else is 54g - it will slow everything down.

I would also seriously consider something with more than one network port - as some 'game adapters' are designed to only provide access for one device even with an additional switch.
I originally added the bridge to get my Playstation2 online - now I have an MP3 player connected and can anticipate more stuff getting plugged in in future.


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## big_dirk (Feb 17, 2006)

cheers Ian, thanks for the insight, I would never have thought such activities take place with a router! I would have thought routers would be more expensive than wireless bridges if anything!

Anyway, I dont think I want to follow the route of modding the firmware of a wireless router, but thanks for the offer anyway. I think i'll try and pick up a 54Mbps wireless bridge. I just hear bad things about the Netgear ones though  I want to maintain the same brand throughout my wireless network if possible you see!

I've PMd u btw


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

ndunlavey said:


> Ah ... I have a WRT54G I've been thinking of reflashing with Alchemy, but that all looked a bit intimidating. This DD-WRT stuff looks a bit more straightforward.


I stuck with Satori (version before Alchemy) for ages, but it only only allows one device to be connected. I could never get Alchemy working with more than one device. Other issue is that the devices have to be on a different sub-net ie router in 192.168.0.x and bridged devices on 192.168.1.x so without fiddling around PC's on one subnet are not visible to others on the other subnet.

Anyway using DD-WRT it just worked, reflashed, set up wireless settings, has a very handy site survey option so you can verify things are OK, plugged in PC's, TiVo's etc etc and haven't bothered to touch since, it just works. Not even bothered to update to later version and no need to fiddle with something that just works.


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## ndunlavey (Jun 4, 2002)

Sounds perfect - thanks for the pointer. I'll give it a go this weekend.


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

ndunlavey said:


> Sounds perfect - thanks for the pointer. I'll give it a go this weekend.


Yes if you are using DD-WRT to convert a WRT54G/GS to a wireless bridge, it is very boring, it just works.

All the interesting fiddly Linux'y stuff is when you run DD-WRT in AP mode offering loads of very hard to configure, but essential for propeller heads, type services. A wireless bridge, well offers...hmmm..a wireless bridge....provided you get your wireless SSID and WEP/WPA keys correct it just connects.

Oh on saying that, I found you couldn't change the routers name in wireless client bridged mode, nice to know which one you are connected to when you have more than one. DO this by setting name in AP mode, then change to client bridged mode. Also changed the screen colours so I know where I am, not that I have had to fiddle or change anything since set up. One of my routers is operating in a cupboard under kids pc, other is behind TV for TiVo and 3rd upstairs for another PC all stay connected to DG834G 100% time.


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## ndunlavey (Jun 4, 2002)

Ta for the tips.
(Sorry for hijacking your thread, dirk)


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## big_dirk (Feb 17, 2006)

lol it's fine ndunlavey, I've been reading with interest! I still think I'm gonna go the wireless bridge route - they are smaller for one thing!!


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## ndunlavey (Jun 4, 2002)

Well, by the end of this weekend I'll be able to report back on how (1) a Linksys WRT54G reflashed with DD-WRT firmware and (2) a DLink AP2000 WAP in bridge mode work as wireless clients to a WRT54G acting as a WAP.


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## wonderboy (May 27, 2003)

From my experiance 54G causes a lot more disconnect problems related to interference. Setting the AP to B only made the connection 100% reliable - seen this a lot with Linksys WAP's and other brands.


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

wonderboy said:


> From my experiance 54G causes a lot more disconnect problems related to interference. Setting the AP to B only made the connection 100% reliable - seen this a lot with Linksys WAP's and other brands.


My experience as well with Linksys kit, long pauses then continues. But since moving from Linksys kit to Netgear and 3rd party firmware on Linksys kit at both work and home don't see any wireless connectivity issues at all.

We have had a data acquisition system writing files to our server every couple of minutes at work for over 2000hours no issues. This was XPEmbbeded device to WRT54G in client mode (Satori) to NetGear DG834G, VPN tunnel to works ADSL2MUE (Linksys modem) to Vigor2900 VPN endpoint and onto server.


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## sanderton (Jan 4, 2002)

You will definitely see a speed improvement with g over b witha cachecard in my experience. For best results, 802.11a trumps both I'm told.

A UK Tivo can send video data at a maximum of about 20 megabits a second over a wired connection. The overhead of wireless packets slows that a bit even on a perfect 802.11g connection, but obviously you can't get anywhere near that with the theoretical (never mind practical) 11 megabit limit of 802.11b.


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## Fred1 (Dec 10, 2002)

Does anyone have any experience of the WRT54G wirless bridged from a DG384G and access from outside the LAN?

When i tried to do this with Alchemy, it seemed very complicated and i just couldnt get external access to work. 

Anyway will give it a go - looks good solution. 

And it looks like it has secure access!


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

Yes I have port forwarded on my DG834G to the wireless client bridged WRT54G on my LAN. You need to forward port 8080 on DG834G to the IP address of the WRT54G and enable HTTPS in WRT54G web front end, I am using DD-WRT. You can then connect via HTTPS remotely,

But, thinking about it, why ? Once set up there is no need to look at the router, it just works.

Anyway I can get access to the router via my home PC and remote desktop, just remotely log into my PC open up a web browser and connect to the WRT54G's on my LAN.


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## Fred1 (Dec 10, 2002)

Sorry, I was talking about accessing the Tivo ;-)

So the configuration would be Web->DG834G-wireless bridge->WRT54G->Tivo

Have you tried this? would it be possible to do the secure access in the WRT54G for access to the TiVo?


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

Was not this thread all about it ?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=273174

I have not bothered in my case. I am not using internet facing port 80 to forward to my TiVo and I have enabled logging on my router if my TiVo is accessed by any IP address other than my works IP it gets logged and so far in 6 months seen nothing.


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## randap (Jan 21, 2003)

My TiVo is plugged straight into my DG834G router. My PC then has a wireless PCI card and all works fine. Not a "bridge" in sight!


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## Fred1 (Dec 10, 2002)

Ok, thanks

I'll try this (the WRT54G solution) at the weekend and report back (SWMBO allowing)


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

Fred1 said:


> ......... (SWMBO allowing)......


One of the reasons why I had to go wireless. I would have been quite happy network cables strung everywhere etc etc, but no no not allowed I even get grief about the cables behind the TV, that aren't even visible when watching Eastenders......


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## big_dirk (Feb 17, 2006)

sanderton said:


> You will definitely see a speed improvement with g over b witha cachecard in my experience. For best results, 802.11a trumps both I'm told.


I'm wondering just how significant that improvement is, as 802.11g wireless bridges seem to cost *far* more than 802.11b.

By my reckoning (all theoretical) TiVo can output at around 20 Megabits (thanks to Sanderton) which is about 2.5 megabytes/second.

802.11g could get me 54 Megabits per second which is 6.75 mega bytes per second. (over and above what TiVo can output), whereas...

802.11b could get me 11 Megabits per second which is 1.375 mega bytes per second.

Now to choose £20 second hand 802.11b versus £40 second hand 802.11g adapters......


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

But even with the best wireless connection in the world, you will never see more than 800Kbyte with 11b and 3-4MByte (maybe 5 sometimes) with 11g.

And then if you are attempting to share or anyone else is using a wireless device on the same channel (ie neighbours etc etc) the figures are much lower.

Remember the three rules of Wireless Networking (Toms Hardware)
1) It never goes as fast as they say it does 
1a) Take the manufacturer's Mbps number and divide by (at least) two
2) It never goes as far as they say it does 
3) It never sets up as easily as they say it does 

Maybe you should consider the WRT54G (£32) + DD-WRT firmware..


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## ndunlavey (Jun 4, 2002)

Actual transfer rates will be reduced by attentuation (inverse square for distance, and more reduction for walls, floors, etc), retires, interference from other devices and other nearby networks.


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## big_dirk (Feb 17, 2006)

Ian_m said:


> But even with the best wireless connection in the world, you will never see more than 800Kbyte with 11b and 3-4MByte (maybe 5 sometimes) with 11g.


Then going on those assumptions then, it'd definately be worth getting a 802.11g bridge.


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## Jimus (Dec 28, 2005)

I use a Netgear wge111 wireless 'gaming adaptor' to connect my TiVo to my network. It is a 802.11g device but my router is currently only 802.11b, they talk quite happily together.

It works very well, was relatively easy to set up and is a very small device which hides invisibly behind the telly.

Can't comment on the other gizmos really but personally I went for something which supports the latest security (WPS etc) and would not become obsolete when I upgrade my router.

It was £45 at Ebuyer.

Cheers

Jimus


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## big_dirk (Feb 17, 2006)

Cheers Jimus, I'm after something which supports decent security as well, I suppose you've got the WGE111, It looks the part as well compared to Buffallo products....what's the reach of the range like on your Netgear?


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

Problem is WGE111 only supports WEP128, which is hardly secure now. Most ADSL routers (eg DS834G), PCMCIA cards (eg WG5111) all support WPA encryption, just a shame other devices do not. Even my SWMBO's PDA supports WPA out of the box.

I managed to crack my own WEP128 key, with out much trouble, the tools and web guides make it quite trivial. Took about 8 hours (actually I captured data overnight and processed the next day). I was a bit shocked. Of course there is nothing in the router logs etc etc to know anyone was attempting to crack your wireless network.

Anyway now use WPA, on all my wireless devices. DD-WRT 3rd party fimware on a WRT54G supports WPA in client mode as well.


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## ndunlavey (Jun 4, 2002)

TSB!


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## big_dirk (Feb 17, 2006)

pardon?


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

If you don't believe how easy WEP128 is to crack follow the guides below

Part 1: Setup & Network Recon
http://www.tomsnetworking.com/2005/05/10/how_to_crack_wep_/
Part 2: Performing the Crack
http://www.tomsnetworking.com/2005/05/18/how_to_crack_wep_/
Part 1: Setup & Network Recon
http://www.tomsnetworking.com/2005/06/07/how_to_crack_wep_/

I used a portable with WG511 card, Auditor CD + small FAT32 partition on harddrive to store the logs. Then cracked on my main PC next day. Then after picking jaw off floor (as it worked) changed to WPA..... Theres a really handy forum to offer help if you are having problems.


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## big_dirk (Feb 17, 2006)

Ian, I bleieve that WEP is a lot easier than WPA to crack, I was just saying "pardon" at the "TSB" from ndunlavey - I dont understand what TSB means?!!!


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## ndunlavey (Jun 4, 2002)

Oh, I just wanted to join in with the abbreviations


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## big_dirk (Feb 17, 2006)

Lolroflmao


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

big_dirk said:


> Ian, I bleieve that WEP is a lot easier than WPA to crack, I was just saying "pardon" at the "TSB" from ndunlavey - I dont understand what TSB means?!!!


I wasn't replying to the TSB, I was just adding further info to my own post about how to do it, but as I took a long time, TSB butted in.

Trustees Saving Bank ?


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