# How long before a bigger official eSATA drive?



## singletb (May 12, 2004)

Let me start by saying that I am very excited about today's announcements. However, I was hoping for a little more than 500 GB in the expandable storage area. How long (if ever) do you think it will be before 750 GB and 1 TB drives come out? Should I pull the trigger now and risk being stuck with a useless 500 GB drive when bigger models come out? Can an eSATA such as this be re-formated and used as a regular external storage drive on a computer? If so, then it wouldn't be a total waste if a newer, larger model was released.


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## Goober96 (Jun 28, 2005)

And can 2 DVR Expanders be connected to one Tivo?


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## Dmon4u (Jul 15, 2000)

http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/domore/storage/faqs.html

" Can I use more than one DVR Expander drive with my TiVo® DVR?

No. The TiVo® DVR only supports one DVR Expander."

--

I'm waiting till they at least get to 1 Tb or more. Just guessing, but I'd say that an approved 500 Gb drive is way to small for the majority of those around here.


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## sommerfeld (Feb 26, 2006)

singletb said:


> Can an eSATA such as this be re-formated and used as a regular external storage drive on a computer? If so, then it wouldn't be a total waste if a newer, larger model was released.


Yes.


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## Joybob (Oct 2, 2007)

Are you on a S3 or HD?


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

Well, what if I doubled the SD recording capacity for you? How about up to 600 hours of SD capacity instead of 300?

Poof! Done. 

The quoted '300 hours' is for the Scientific Atlanta DVR, not for a TiVo DVR. The HD numbers are the same, but a TiVo DVR can record up to 600 additional hours of SD content using the My DVR Expander.

Cheers,
Pony


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## singletb (May 12, 2004)

TiVoPony said:


> Well, what if I doubled the SD recording capacity for you? How about up to 600 hours of SD capacity instead of 300?
> 
> Poof! Done.
> 
> ...


Don't get me wrong, that is more space than I will ever need for SD. The ever increasing number of HD channels is my main concern. However, reading above about being able to use as a regular external drive on the computer sold me. If there is ever a bigger version of the same product, I can just use my old drive on my computer!


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## Joybob (Oct 2, 2007)

singletb said:


> Don't get me wrong, that is more space than I will ever need for SD. The ever increasing number of HD channels is my main concern. However, reading above about being able to use as a regular external drive on the computer sold me. If there is ever a bigger version of the same product, I can just use my old drive on my computer!


Dude, use a 1 TB solution if you have an S3.


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

TiVoPony said:


> Well, what if I doubled the SD recording capacity for you? How about up to 600 hours of SD capacity instead of 300?
> 
> Poof! Done.
> 
> ...


Cable has been adding many HD channels these past weeks because of Direct TV's expansion.

A total of 750 G in HD hours?

Poof! Gone.


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## singletb (May 12, 2004)

Joybob said:


> Dude, use a 1 TB solution if you have an S3.


I have an S3, but don't feel comfortable with doing a hack or kickstart or whatever else. Can you plug and play drives other than the WD my DVR expander?


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## Joybob (Oct 2, 2007)

singletb said:


> I have an S3, but don't feel comfortable with doing a hack or kickstart or whatever else. Can you plug and play drives other than the WD my DVR expander?


YES!!!


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## singletb (May 12, 2004)

Joybob said:


> YES!!!


Have any reccomendations? From what I have read, an eSATA plugged in to a DVR needs to be a bit more ruged than most.


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## Joybob (Oct 2, 2007)

singletb said:


> Have any reccomendations? From what I have read, an eSATA plugged in to a DVR needs to be a bit more ruged than most.


I think they exaggerate the need for a more robust drive.


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## spectrumsp (Oct 2, 2002)

TiVoPony said:


> Well, what if I doubled the SD recording capacity for you? How about up to 600 hours of SD capacity instead of 300?
> 
> Poof! Done.
> 
> ...


TivoPony...

First I want to thank you for all of the insight and information you provide all of us...so, with that intro, I'm going to call upon you as the guru of knowledge to solve a preplexing question.

Help me out here...why can an S3 use the MX-1 as an expander but not the THD? It's the same software on both, therefore it contains the same drivers for functionality. The MX-1 should work fine on the THD...if you (Tivo) would only allow it...why not?

Am I missing something?


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

spectrumsp said:


> TivoPony...
> 
> First I want to thank you for all of the insight and information you provide all of us...so, with that intro, I'm going to call upon you as the guru of knowledge to solve a preplexing question.
> 
> ...


The backdoor that allowed any eSATA drive to work with the Series3 was not intended for public consumption. Once it got out though, there was little we could do short of disabling all the drives the community had already purchased and installed. That would have been unpleasant for everyone, so the Series3 is grandfathered to work with non-verified eSATA drives via the eSATA menus. We will not provide any support however for non-verified drives, or any issues that arise from having used one.

There wasn't a backdoor for the TiVo HD platform, nor will there be one. The TiVo Verified solutions are the way to go with a TiVo HD. I'd recommend it for the Series3 as well!

Pony


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## tomryan (Sep 9, 2006)

TiVoPony said:


> The backdoor that allowed any eSATA drive to work with the Series3 was not intended for public consumption. Once it got out though, there was little we could do short of disabling all the drives the community had already purchased and installed. That would have been unpleasant for everyone, so the Series3 is grandfathered to work with non-verified eSATA drives via the eSATA menus. We will not provide any support however for non-verified drives, or any issues that arise from having used one.
> 
> There wasn't a backdoor for the TiVo HD platform, nor will there be one. The TiVo Verified solutions are the way to go with a TiVo HD. I'd recommend it for the Series3 as well!
> 
> Pony


And this is why TIVO will always get my money.. Thanks Pony for the honest answer (no support, none expected, I won't call/complain/etc when it breaks) and for doing the "right" thing and grandfathering those users of the S3 who had found a way.


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## spectrumsp (Oct 2, 2002)

TiVoPony said:


> The backdoor that allowed any eSATA drive to work with the Series3 was not intended for public consumption. Once it got out though, there was little we could do short of disabling all the drives the community had already purchased and installed. That would have been unpleasant for everyone, so the Series3 is grandfathered to work with non-verified eSATA drives via the eSATA menus. We will not provide any support however for non-verified drives, or any issues that arise from having used one.
> 
> There wasn't a backdoor for the TiVo HD platform, nor will there be one. The TiVo Verified solutions are the way to go with a TiVo HD. I'd recommend it for the Series3 as well!
> 
> Pony


TivoPony...

Thank you for your prompt response...

Will Tivo begin, in the near term, evaluating other THD extender devices for compability such as the MX-1...

As an aside...since we already know that the MX-1 functions properly with the existing software, shouldn't Tivo at least allow it to work with THD while it explores other Esata devices for compability.


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## beerkensp (Dec 29, 2003)

I upgraded my internal drive to 750Gb. At that time I was convinced that that would be plenty for a long time to come. It is surprising how quickly it fills up with HD content.

I find that if I have not been able to watch a lot of TV for a couple of weeks that my drive is getting full and I have to make the difficult decision of what to delete.

I definitly will be looking to add another 1Tb as an eSata. I wich that my expensive (yes I paid $800) tivo3 was able to support more than 2Tb.


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## kingmob (Jan 27, 2007)

I'm wondering whether the DVR Expander can be easily disassembled and a larger hard drive installed, without compromising the ability of Tivo HD's to use it. (If necessary, I suppose one could clone the included drive to the larger replacement, in case there's any relevant software installed on the former.)


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

I highly recommend that everyone that possibly can *man up* and do their own MFS upgrades. It is quite a satisfying experience, much cheaper and offers many more options.


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## andrews777 (Aug 23, 2007)

TiVoPony said:


> The TiVo Verified solutions are the way to go with a TiVo HD. I'd recommend it for the Series3 as well!
> 
> Pony


Will a larger drive be certified any time soon? Does it have to be purchased from Tivo, or is that exact model sufficient? I would rather have 1TB, but I may bite at the current choice if I can skip the extra tax and shipping. (If they still have them in stock of course.)

Brad


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

spectrumsp said:


> TivoPony...
> 
> Thank you for your prompt response...
> 
> ...


FYI... I and a few others have found that the eSATA cable that comes with the MX-1 isn't all that great and caused me issues. The MX-1 paired with a SIIG eSATA cable works great though.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

TiVoPony said:


> The backdoor that allowed any eSATA drive to work with the Series3 was not intended for public consumption. Once it got out though, there was little we could do short of disabling all the drives the community had already purchased and installed. That would have been unpleasant for everyone, so the Series3 is grandfathered to work with non-verified eSATA drives via the eSATA menus.
> Pony


Thank you TiVoPony. This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me such a fan of TiVo. I happen to be one of the ones who expanded my storage and it was my faith that TiVo Inc. wouldn't screw us over that gave me the confidence to carry that forward. Grandfathering us in, is very much appreciated and shows that TiVo does still care about us "TiVo Fanatics" and "early adopters". :up:


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

bareyb said:


> Thank you TiVoPony. This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me such a fan of TiVo. I happen to be one of the ones who expanded my storage and it was my faith that TiVo Inc. wouldn't screw us over that gave me the confidence to carry that forward. Grandfathering us in, is very much appreciated and shows that TiVo does still care about us "TiVo Fanatics" and "early adopters". :up:


Couldn't have said it better myself...and to add to that..._phew_!


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## TokyoShoe (Jul 27, 2007)

bareyb said:


> Thank you TiVoPony. This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me such a fan of TiVo. I happen to be one of the ones who expanded my storage and it was my faith that TiVo Inc. wouldn't screw us over that gave me the confidence to carry that forward. *Grandfathering us in, is very much appreciated and shows that TiVo does still care about us "TiVo Fanatics" and "early adopters".* :up:


Actually I think this is complete and total garbage. It is "Early Adopters" that went out and bought eSATA Drives to use with their TivoHD units in anticipation of being able to use them, just as they were useable with the Tivo Series3's. While I think they are smart not to disable all non-verified drives for previous Series 3 users, I think it's complete and total CRAP much less massively missleading advertising to sell off TivoHD's with an eSATA port .. but NOT tell the users you intend to lock it down and have it behave TOTALLY differently from previous generation Series 3's and their eSATA port.

People bought TivoHD's with eSATA ports specifically to be able to upgrade them the same way people could with their Tivo Series 3's. Yes, I understand that was a *"backdoor solution"* regarding eSATA use and the Series 3's. But guess what? You NEVER commented on it being an "illegal solution" previously, and since no comments to this fact were ever made.. nor were there EVER comments regarding TivoHD requiring a "Verified Storage Solution" in the future. I personally think this is flat out _dirty pool_ on the part of Tivo and I am losing respect for this company FAST.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Early adopters bought the Series 3 TiVo(in 2006). By the time the TiVoHD came out that was much later so i wouldn't call anyone who got a TiVoHD an early adopter.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

kingmob said:


> I'm wondering whether the DVR Expander can be easily disassembled and a larger hard drive installed, without compromising the ability of Tivo HD's to use it. (If necessary, I suppose one could clone the included drive to the larger replacement, in case there's any relevant software installed on the former.)


No. Its not the enclosure that the Tivo is keying on.... Its the drive itself. The enclosure is invisable from the SATA interface. Its just a box.

Now you could possibly buy a WD A/V drive and put it in an MX-1 and have it work fine. The question is whether there is a difference between the raw A/V drive and the one in the My DVR Expander.

It could be tested using the drive taken out of a THD and hook it to an unmodified THD.


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

TiVoPony said:


> Well, what if I doubled the SD recording capacity for you? How about up to 600 hours of SD capacity instead of 300?
> 
> Poof! Done.
> 
> ...


No offense but people don't buy "HD" TiVo's to watch SD content. 60 hours of HD is way to small. It might be good for now since the majority of shows aren't offered in HD but in a year or so when more channels are added the Hard Drive is going to run out of space very quickly.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

So I wonder if it's possible to extract the 500GB drive and copy it to a 1TB drive and have it work properly.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

TokyoShoe said:


> Actually I think this is complete and total garbage. It is "Early Adopters" that went out and bought eSATA Drives to use with their TivoHD units in anticipation of being able to use them, just as they were useable with the Tivo Series3's.


 Perhaps you missed it, but there was no TiVo support for eSATA on S3's or THD's until this week.



TokyoShoe said:


> While I think they are smart not to disable all non-verified drives for previous Series 3 users, I think it's complete and total CRAP much less massively missleading advertising to sell off TivoHD's with an eSATA port .. but NOT tell the users you intend to lock it down and have it behave TOTALLY differently from previous generation Series 3's and their eSATA port.


 See above.



TokyoShoe said:


> People bought TivoHD's with eSATA ports specifically to be able to upgrade them the same way people could with their Tivo Series 3's.


 You may have, the general public did not and anyone that did took their chances and have no recoursesee above.



TokyoShoe said:


> Yes, I understand that was a *"backdoor solution"* regarding eSATA use and the Series 3's. But guess what? You NEVER commented on it being an "illegal solution" previously, and since no comments to this fact were ever made.. nor were there EVER comments regarding TivoHD requiring a "Verified Storage Solution" in the future.


 See above.



TokyoShoe said:


> I personally think this is flat out _dirty pool_ on the part of Tivo and I am losing respect for this company FAST.


 You're certainly entitled to your opinion...and we can see that you don't let facts stand in the way of shaping it.

FYI, many of us began modifying S3's more than six months ago, not THDs (which didnt exist at the time). Whatever you are, you are _not _an early adopter.

Look, you have been whining about this on dozens of threads since you became a forum memberwe get it. Man up and deal with it or do us all a favor and take your TiVo back for a refund and take up some other pastime.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> So I wonder if it's possible to extract the 500GB drive and copy it to a 1TB drive and have it work properly.


Great idea! I like it! :up: Let us know how it goes!


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## singletb (May 12, 2004)

richsadams said:


> Look, you have been whining about this on dozens of threads since you became a forum memberwe get it. Man up and deal with it or do us all a favor and take your TiVo back for a refund and take up some other pastime.


Amen Richsadams. The last person I wanted hijacking my thread is TokyoShoe. I have been reading nothing but way overboard complaints from him for the past week.


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## andyw715 (Jul 31, 2007)

you think tivo would have put a proprietary connector instead of vanilla esata on the back of the TiVo HD.

Reduce the risk of someone trying to prematuraly attach a esata device prior to officially supporting external storage, thus eliminating thier anticipation of free reign on the esata input.


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## mike_camden (Dec 11, 2006)

TokyoShoe said:


> Actually I think this is complete and total garbage. It is "Early Adopters" that went out and bought eSATA Drives to use with their TivoHD units in anticipation of being able to use them, just as they were useable with the Tivo Series3's. While I think they are smart not to disable all non-verified drives for previous Series 3 users, I think it's complete and total CRAP much less massively missleading advertising to sell off TivoHD's with an eSATA port .. but NOT tell the users you intend to lock it down and have it behave TOTALLY differently from previous generation Series 3's and their eSATA port.
> 
> People bought TivoHD's with eSATA ports specifically to be able to upgrade them the same way people could with their Tivo Series 3's. Yes, I understand that was a *"backdoor solution"* regarding eSATA use and the Series 3's. But guess what? You NEVER commented on it being an "illegal solution" previously, and since no comments to this fact were ever made.. nor were there EVER comments regarding TivoHD requiring a "Verified Storage Solution" in the future. I personally think this is flat out _dirty pool_ on the part of Tivo and I am losing respect for this company FAST.


I've stayed silent on this issue, but come on, man. You bought the TivoHD and then tried to use a backdoor solution. It didn't work. Until launching the expander, Tivo NEVER advertised it as a working feature on the Tivo HD with any eSATA drive, nor did they even allude to it as being something they would support. You, like all of us, frequent a site filled with early adopters who like to "hack" their equipment. You jumped too early, which is your fault, not Tivos. I've been caught doing the same thing with other techs and had to bite the bullet. I almost bought an antec external case a couple of weeks ago when they were on sale, but opted not to because a lot of speculation was pointing towards Tivo only supporting verified drives. You've got to suck it up here; constant bellyaching is only going to give you an ulcer.

Tivo has made a business decision, which is probably a sound decision given the market that the Tivo HD targets.

TivoPony, thanks for the honest response. Based on all of my interactions with Tivo over the years, I have found them to be one of the most consumer-oriented companies around.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

mike_camden said:


> TivoPony, thanks for the honest response. Based on all of my interactions with Tivo over the years, I have found them to be one of the most consumer-oriented companies around.


+1

I don't think that gets said often enough lately. TiVo still rocks harder than anyone. Lest we not forget that. :up:


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## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> So I wonder if it's possible to extract the 500GB drive and copy it to a 1TB drive and have it work properly.


That would be interesting to find out. It has to be the firmware description in the drive that is being keyed off of for the p'n'p installation, not the enclosure nor any content on the drive. But once setup will it check the drive each time or not? Someone with the TiVo specified drive and another different drive gets to test (it doesn't need to be a bigger one for the purposes of proof of concept). :up:


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

TiVoPony said:


> Well, what if I doubled the SD recording capacity for you? How about up to 600 hours of SD capacity instead of 300?
> 
> Poof! Done.
> 
> ...


Well, yeah, but who wants to put 600 hours of SD programming on an HD DVR, and basic quality at that? I have 2 TB on one Series III and 1TB on the other. If I had only SD programming, I could get over 2000 hours of basic quality SD on them. Outside of TiVo Suggestions I have maybe 20 hours of SD content stored in total between the two of them.

I just flashed on something. Does anyone recall what the recording capacity of the very first production Series I TiVo was?


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

TiVoPony said:


> The backdoor that allowed any eSATA drive to work with the Series3 was not intended for public consumption.


Oops.

Frankly, I think the mileage TiVo received or could have received if they bothered so to do from having widely distributed unpaid beta testers in the form of eager hackers could have far exceeded any negative impacts to your marketing and development strategy. To put it another way, If I were you, I would have quietly and unofficially but publicly and deliberately put the utility in front of the users for them to try at their own risk.



TiVoPony said:


> Once it got out though, there was little we could do short of disabling all the drives the community had already purchased and installed.


Not at all. As one other poster already pointed out, disabling the marriage code will not prevent already married drives from working. Indeed, those of us with other than stock drives already make use of different utilities than the TiVo stock marriage utility.



TiVoPony said:


> We will not provide any support however for non-verified drives, or any issues that arise from having used one.


Which is perfectly reasonable, and would be even if events had unfolded differently.



TiVoPony said:


> There wasn't a backdoor for the TiVo HD platform, nor will there be one.


I should imagine not.



TiVoPony said:


> The TiVo Verified solutions are the way to go with a TiVo HD. I'd recommend it for the Series3 as well!


It's difficult to judge inflection in this type of forum, so I may well be misreading between the lines. Forgive me and correct me if I am, but there is a huge difference between providing a Supported Items list while refusing to supply support for items not on the list and actively preventing a product from functioning in an unsupported fashion or with unsupported third party equipment. It almost sounds like and seems like TiVo is leaning toward the latter. If so, and again I could easily be way off base, I feel compelled to remark that this is a very poor marketing gambit.

Think about it for a moment. If you purchased a Ferrari and they recommended only a limited number of brand of tires be used, refusing to repair under warranty any damages caused by the use of unapproved tires, you would probably not object - but would probably buy whatever tires you wanted despite the company line. If they put a gizmo in the car which prevented it from starting when you installed tires from Bob's tire shop, however, you would raise bloody Hell.

How far would Compaq or Dell get if they prevented their PCs from working with the majority of hard drives on the market? The TiVo isn't really substanitally different from the PC on my desk from a peripherals perspective. (Of course in the event TiVo winds up with a list of approved drives a mile long, the point becomes rather moot.)

Better yet, what would TiVo say if either a major television manufacturer or one of the major CATV providers came up with a way to prevent the TV from working if a TiVo is attached?


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

bareyb said:


> I don't think that gets said often enough lately. TiVo still rocks harder than anyone. Lest we not forget that. :up:


'Mostly. I'd like to make sure they know we want them to keep it that way.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

mike_camden said:


> I've stayed silent on this issue, but come on, man. You bought the TivoHD and then tried to use a backdoor solution. It didn't work. Until launching the expander, Tivo NEVER advertised it as a working feature on the Tivo HD with any eSATA drive, nor did they even allude to it as being something they would support. You, like all of us, frequent a site filled with early adopters who like to "hack" their equipment. You jumped too early, which is your fault, not Tivos. I've been caught doing the same thing with other techs and had to bite the bullet. I almost bought an antec external case a couple of weeks ago when they were on sale, but opted not to because a lot of speculation was pointing towards Tivo only supporting verified drives. You've got to suck it up here; constant bellyaching is only going to give you an ulcer.
> 
> Tivo has made a business decision, which is probably a sound decision given the market that the Tivo HD targets.
> 
> TivoPony, thanks for the honest response. Based on all of my interactions with Tivo over the years, I have found them to be one of the most consumer-oriented companies around.


 :up: 
and 
:up: 
and
:up: :up:


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## The Weissman (Dec 26, 2002)

A thought: if it is the drive, and not the enclosure, that identifies the "My DVR Expander" as the TiVo-verified solution, then isn't it possible to buy two of those drives (sans enclosure), and put them into a single eSATA enclosure for a full 1 TB expansion? (For example, this enclosure: http://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?id=613875 and a couple of 500 GB drives from DVR Expanders.)

Steve


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

The Weissman said:


> A thought: if it is the drive, and not the enclosure, that identifies the "My DVR Expander" as the TiVo-verified solution, then isn't it possible to buy two of those drives (sans enclosure), and put them into a single eSATA enclosure for a full 1 TB expansion? (For example, this enclosure: http://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?id=613875 and a couple of 500 GB drives from DVR Expanders.)


The device your link points to doesn't have eSATA, you can only connect to the host via USB or firewire. Any enclosure that bind together two drives to look as one is going to its own firmware to handle the host interface and not look like the constituent drives.


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## Mars Rocket (Mar 24, 2000)

lrhorer said:


> Well, yeah, but who wants to put 600 hours of SD programming on an HD DVR, and basic quality at that?


I was going to post something similar. Touting the 600 hours of basic quality SD programming storage is ridiculous and borders on insulting. People don't buy S3 units to store SD programming on them, and even if they did nobody would be satisfied with basic quality on an HD display (unless you were just after the audio, or were using it as a surveillance system or something like that.)


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## TokyoShoe (Jul 27, 2007)

richsadams said:


> FYI, many of us began modifying S3's more than six months ago, not THDs (which didnt exist at the time). Whatever you are, you are _not _an early adopter.
> 
> Look, you have been whining about this on dozens of threads since you became a forum memberwe get it. Man up and deal with it or do us all a favor and take your TiVo back for a refund and take up some other pastime.


I've been a member of forum for more than few months now, and I've been posting on one thing or another on and off. (I tried to get Galleon to work for a bit before anyone actually mentioned point blank that TTG/MRV was enabled for TivoHD's. My bad, wasted a bit of time on that.

My "early adopter" point is not in comparison to the rest of the Tivo Nation, you can't use S3's as direct timeline comparisons to TivoHD. Features comparisons, sure... even quality comparisons or speed/functionality comparisons.

Maybe I should rephrase that as "TivoHD Early Adopter"? In terms of "TivoHD Early Adopter" it's going to be anyone who bought the TivoHD units very early on, and prepared for future use and possible expansion as quick as they could. Since they were "TivoHD Early Adopters" the only nearest benchmark for functionality would be the rest of the Series3's. We check with the Series3 users, see that they have eSATA capabilities that are enabled via an "undocumented functionality". Now, extensive research regarding all documentation, as well as any "official positions" from Tivo on this "undocumented functionality" never yields comments from Tivo stating said "undocumented functionality" is infact an "illegal move on the part of the users". They just don't say anything about it.

If they leave a function in, documented or not, and never patch it out for SUCH a long duration of time.. the user community is going to make assumptions regarding that functionality and just what future intent or possibilities are. This is going to especially happen a lot with PR policies like they have at Tivo.. not commenting on so many thinks, never listing specific patch notes or future intentions of features development.

S3's had eSATA that was could be enabled through "some means". A means left in for quite a long time, never condemned by Tivo.. just never ENDORSED by Tivo. If a new consumer comes into this equation and does what research he can, he's going to end up making the assumption that this feature is going to be left in for the S3's long term. Comparing equipment on the regular S3 to the TivoHD, and factoring in that the TivoHD is in fact a S3-"lite" type model, AND the fact that TivoHD has an eSATA also. Combine all this, it's very easy to come to the conclusion that this feature will eventually be just as functional with TivoHD's.

Heck I was told numerous times by folks on THESE forums that the eSATA port was going to get enabled on TivoHD's when TTG/MRV got enabled, because the features were all tied together. (Yes these people are NOT "official Tivo employees / support", I get that and am not trying to BLAME them for anything.)

And yes I'm griping about the massively bad choice regarding this entire stupidity of. Yes I'm a tad "miffed" regarding having purchased a TivoHD AND an external eSATA drive, having been told by forum members here specific feature expectations.. and then have Tivo Inc. turn around that totally change the functionality of those features AGAINST what I was previously told. Yes I am a "bit upset" regarding the requirements of having to buy a NEW eSATA drive of their "specific brand".

Biggest thing I'm miffed about? The "return period" on my TivoHD ran out a month go.

_*But here's the final point.. the final gist of this entire monstrosity of a rambling post.*_

*If you're sick of me.. just ignore me? It's what everyone else does, seems to work for them just fine too. Even better, let me cuss and whine until I get myself banned from the boards! Then you are rid of me!* Just remember yours is not the only perspective or opinion here. Yours is not the "right way to see things". And you don't actually own OR run these boards.


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## EVizzle (Feb 13, 2005)

If you are mad that your drive isn't supported, plug it into a computer and tivotogo it and it will work just fine.

You knew this feature wasn't going to be supported until November, so you really should have planned ahead and returned your Tivo and re-bought it so you could test out its functionality to your liking.

If you bought your Tivo and HDD with some sort of documentation saying they would officially work, and it did not, then you have a fair complaint.

We aren't out to get you, many of us have been waiting excitedly for these features for a long time, but you just need to tone it down a bit. Tivo didn't sell you the wrong items, not did the tivocommunitystore for that matter.


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## TokyoShoe (Jul 27, 2007)

EVizzle said:


> If you are mad that your drive isn't supported, plug it into a computer and tivotogo it and it will work just fine.
> 
> You knew this feature wasn't going to be supported until November, so you really should have planned ahead and returned your Tivo and re-bought it so you could test out its functionality to your liking.
> 
> ...


Trust me, I get it. I bought the TivoHD, the documentation mentions the eSATA port "intended for future use", thought it doesn't implicitly state what / when / where / why / how. Instead I read up, get suggestions from this community that I then have to make the choice to act upon. Was it a mistake not to return the TivoHD at the end of the first thirty days? Might have been, yes. Right now, I think I would pin the bigger misplacement of faith in the choice to purchase an eSATA drive before getting the final "official word" from Tivo (that went against almost everyone's expectations, I'd wager).

I still think it's okay to be frustrated with Tivo, tho, when they roll out a feature that flys against customer expectations. I still don't see why they don't just enable the "unsupported eSATA device" setup for TivoHD's, just like they did for Series 3's. Yes I get that it's grandfathered, but they state that they grandfathered in Series 3's specifically to avoid riots.

Don't you think that would mean that the TivoHD users might riot ALSO for not getting that same loophole capability? I really don't see any logic reason for NOT enabling unsupported eSATA device bonding, especially since they... _(wait for it)..._*don't have to support the unsupported?*


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

The Weissman said:


> A thought: if it is the drive, and not the enclosure, that identifies the "My DVR Expander" as the TiVo-verified solution, then isn't it possible to buy two of those drives (sans enclosure), and put them into a single eSATA enclosure for a full 1 TB expansion? (For example, this enclosure: http://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?id=613875 and a couple of 500 GB drives from DVR Expanders.)
> 
> Steve


Um...because you can buy a single 1TB HDD and install it internally for less? Just a thought.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

This whole idea of support:

What kind of support are people looking for anyway? I mean if you use the TiVo DVR Expander and it fails, what is TiVo going to do for you besides keep you on hold when you call? Nothing in the world will get your recordings back. If the drive(s) are under warranty, that's the same deal as if Joe's Bargain HDD dies under warranty. 

I'm not talking here about the convenience of PnP. That I understand a desire for.

But in terms of support, what practical help or restitution can be expected if something goes wrong? Who's going to prove your motherboard blew because of a faulty DVR Expander, for example? For that matter, how long is the warranty period anyway?


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

TokyoShoe said:


> I've been a member of forum for more than few months now...<snip>
> 
> My "early adopter" point is not in comparison to the rest of the Tivo Nation, <snip>
> 
> ...


*  OMG, you just don't get it do you? We heard your whining in the first twenty-five posts about the same thing. You're worse than a screaming baby on a long haul flight! Get a dog. Move on!

But before you do, here's a handy video that I know you'll like...make sure you have your speakers on. 

http://www.navycs.com/gallery2/v/useful_images/movies/188612_Posting.swf.html

Enjoy!*


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

I still don't get the fascination of HUGE drives attached to Tivo. Keeping a bunch of stuff on there clutters things up (Tivo has very limited organizing capabilities) and slows down the software doesn't it (can't imagine bringing up Now Playing List with 100s of shows)? If you build up a whole bunch of stuff to watch later then when will you ever get time to watch it? For me there's stuff to watch on TV pretty much year round so there's never dead time for me where I can catch up on old stuff. Now with the ability for many to offload programs to PCs I see even less urgency for bigger drives on the Tivos. I can see getting up to around 500GB or so but even adding 500GB to my existing 250GB internal would be way overkill for me especially since I already have 2 S3s to share the load. If you want to save a whole series then isn't it more convenient to store on a PC to have the ability to easily organize things as you want? Or just get the DVD set?
So what's the main motivation for HUGE drives on 1 Tivo? Is it a pack rat thing? A man thing? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it's crazy to be doing it, I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind it - I feel like I'm missing something here and left out of the party.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

HDTiVo said:


> This whole idea of support:
> 
> What kind of support are people looking for anyway? I mean if you use the TiVo DVR Expander and it fails, what is TiVo going to do for you besides keep you on hold when you call? Nothing in the world will get your recordings back. If the drive(s) are under warranty, that's the same deal as if Joe's Bargain HDD dies under warranty.
> 
> ...


Excellent points, one and all! :up:


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

moyekj said:


> I still don't get the fascination of HUGE drives attached to Tivo. Keeping a bunch of stuff on there clutters things up (Tivo has very limited organizing capabilities) and slows down the software doesn't it (can't imagine bringing up Now Playing List with 100s of show)? If you build up a whole bunch of stuff to watch later then when will you ever get time to watch it? For me there's stuff to watch on TV pretty much year round so there's never dead time for me where I can catch up on old stuff. Now with the ability for many to offload programs to PCs I see even less urgency for bigger drives on the Tivos. I can see getting up to around 500GB or so but even adding 500GB to my existing 250GB internal would be way overkill for me especially since I already have 2 S3s to share the load. If you want to save a whole series then isn't it more convenient to store on a PC or have the ability to easily organize things as you want? Or just get the DVD set?
> So what's the main motivation for HUGE drives on 1 Tivo? Is it a pack rat thing? A man thing? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it's crazy to be doing it, I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind it - I feel like I'm missing something here and left out of the party.


Good question, but there's a little Tim the Tool Man Taylor in every one of us me thinks.  We have about 150 shows saved up on our S3 and the menus are as speedy as ever...just takes forever to scroll through them all.

As for me, I was waiting for TTG. Now a bunch of the shows will be moving off of TiVo and onto the PC, or DVD, etc. As soon as that bit of housekeeping is done I'm permanently removing the eSATA and popping in the 1TB internal drive I have here on my desk. Ill drop the 500GB drive from the eSATA into our new TiVo HD and be done with it. That's enough real estate for us...for now anyway.


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## andrews777 (Aug 23, 2007)

Just because you can't imagine "hundreds of shows" doesn't mean others can't. Some of us have better imaginations. 

One of the reasons I want a lot of space is so I can have a choice when I do want to watch. I want to pick what I feel like watching, not the limited choices faced because I can only store a few hours of shows.

Regarding the complainers about complaining: You don't have to "drink the kool-aide" to use/like a TivoHD. It is perfectly valid to have issues with the way Tivo has handled things. Any business today had better face up to the mass market of consumers and not just those consumers to whom it can do no wrong. Without good feedback from consumers Tivo will go bust, because it will no longer be meeting market demand. 

Even negative feedback should be widely sought to make the company's products more palatable to the public. Complaining about dissent is more likely to be harmful to the company as it can shut off valid concerns and limit their ability to get back to the main company.

Brad


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## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

moyekj said:


> I still don't get the fascination of HUGE drives attached to Tivo.


There are two reasons that come to mind for me. First, it extends the TiVo mentality of never needing to watch live TV (save for live breaking news) even further. At any particular time I can have a weeks worth of movies available to suit whatever mood I might be in. I may not watch every one. I may start to watch one and realize I'm not interested but I have that option. It is like having a virtual video on demand system. It is particularly good for new season premieres of new shows. Just record everything and then decide at your leisure what might be true season pass material.

And finally, there are certain shows that can be considered exemplary from an HD standpoint. Demonstration pieces if you will or things I like watching repeatedly like Planet Earth or Travels to the Edge . Anyone with a large collection of CDs or DVDs knows the inclination. It is nice to have excess space for such archives so that the more temporal regular use is not interefered with.

The good thing about having the expansion option is that then each person can decide how useful the extra space would be to their viewing habits rather than being limited to the 250GB or less stock drive. Even a casual TV fan could very easily come up against hard limits with a stock TiVo HD. It is just a matter of degree. For some there is even a little bit of _because it can be done_ motivation.


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## robm15 (Feb 23, 2004)

richsadams said:


> OMG, you just don't get it do you? We heard your whining in the first twenty-five posts about the same thing. You're worse than a screaming baby on a long haul flight! Get a dog. Move on!
> 
> But before you do, here's a handy video that I know you'll like...make sure you have your speakers on.
> 
> ...


 :up: 
ROFL! That was the best educational video I have seen in years! And is very appropriate in this case. Thank you for the link.
:up:


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## GaryD9 (Mar 1, 2002)

moyekj said:


> I still don't get the fascination of HUGE drives attached to Tivo.


I can't NOT answer this...

Previous to purchasing a TivoHD (and dropping DirectTv), I had a DirectTv HR10-250 with the internal drive upgraded to 750MB. My wife and I were always running out of space... Why?

During the fall season, we'd record (in HD, of course) many different shows we had "less" interest in and just let them build up throughout the season. When the summer repeats season came, we still had the entire season of 3-4 shows to watch....

I have children. 2 and 4. I have every single episode of dozens and dozens of childrens shows. I actually have more season passes for children's shows than I do of adult shows. They build up fast...

We also have about 2 dozen various movies and other specials recorded. HD quality (even DTV's HD-Lite) is better than plain DVD (and I'm waiting for the industry to choose between HD-DVD or BlueRay before I invest in a new player.)

My wife watches tons of various shows in the daytime that I have no part of. Things on HGTV, Lifetime, Oxygen, DIY, etc. I'm not sure what they are... only that they take up a few pages on the NPL.

If you think the NPL can get slow now, you should have tried it before TiVo put in folders!

I think that the point is that TiVo started as (and still is for many) a way to timeshift and to record 1-2 shows to watch later the same day or week. For others, it's become a video library.


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## Lenonn (May 31, 2004)

500 GB is just not big enough. I would wait for a 1 TB external drive, but now that I look at all the caveats with the external storage, I don't think I'm going this route anytime soon.


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## Mars Rocket (Mar 24, 2000)

moyekj said:


> I still don't get the fascination of HUGE drives attached to Tivo.


Easy: Multiple viewers. My wife and I don't always watch the same shows, and we have three kids that also watch different stuff. So we could have 5 TiVos with medium-sized drives on them, or 1 TiVo with a HUGE drive on it. Problem solved.


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## pjhartman (Jan 21, 2002)

GaryD9 said:


> I can't NOT answer this...


No offense, but my family does not watch as much TV as your family.

I'll agree that for those who want to store 1+ TB worth of shows on a TiVo, there should be a supported solution.


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## flatcurve (Sep 27, 2007)

HDTiVo said:


> This whole idea of support:
> 
> What kind of support are people looking for anyway? I mean if you use the TiVo DVR Expander and it fails, what is TiVo going to do for you besides keep you on hold when you call? Nothing in the world will get your recordings back. If the drive(s) are under warranty, that's the same deal as if Joe's Bargain HDD dies under warranty.
> 
> ...


Well, this is just a guess mostly, but maybe they're equating PnP ability to support... shot in the dark.


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## fred2 (Jan 20, 2006)

Sometimes the squeaky complainer does get satisfaction. So TokeoShoe has the freedom to keep the heat (questions) on Tivo. Unless there is a good physical handicap that truly prevents other drives from working why "discriminate" and allow some to hook up and other to a forced propriety and size-limited solution?

As an example, Creative sold devices with the ability to record FM radio. Suddenly, in a firmware "update" they removed that feature, complaining riaa had mandated it. Lots of hue and cry over removing a feature. Creative would not budge. More hue and cry and they finally added it back. Not quite the same but with enough folks questioning the logic, it moved them to "reason." What is the logic. S3 users can call for support and REP says what drive? Oh, not supported. Still getting those calls. All tivo is doing is limiting choices and making some folks angry. As indicated just above, what will tivo do when a supported drive fails - still a separate warratny issue anyway. Nothing else.


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

To answer the original question, I'll estimate a 750 GB before Christmas (or shortly thereafter) and 1 TB next spring. Remember, for WD this is a question of maximizing profits and managing manufacturing capabilities. They will offer it when it make sense for them. I suspect that many, perhaps most, S3/HD users will not want to mess with this like us fanatics.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Mars Rocket said:


> Easy: Multiple viewers. My wife and I don't always watch the same shows, and we have three kids that also watch different stuff. So we could have 5 TiVos with medium-sized drives on them, or 1 TiVo with a HUGE drive on it. Problem solved.


 I can relate to multiple viewers - there are 5 of us as well all with different tastes. The problem is with only 1 DVR there is no way all recordings could be covered since many of them overlap in schedule. The solution for me is more distributed DVRs (I have 2 S3s and 3 ReplayTVs - the kids get the ReplayTVs and auto commercial skip these days).


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

lrhorer said:


> I just flashed on something. Does anyone recall what the recording capacity of the very first production Series I TiVo was?


I think it was 14 hours (at basic). 
Which must have seemed big in comparison to a VHS tape.


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## Islanti (Dec 13, 2001)

moyekj said:


> I can relate to multiple viewers - there are 5 of us as well all with different tastes. The problem is with only 1 DVR there is no way all recordings could be covered since many of them overlap in schedule. The solution for me is more distributed DVRs (I have 2 S3s and 3 ReplayTVs - the kids get the ReplayTVs and auto commercial skip these days).


Another reason for lots of storage: HD. I mostly record HD-only. A 1TB drive added to my Tivo HD gave me ~160 hours of recording space for HD. That's about what you get with a Tivo HD doing SD-only.


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## singletb (May 12, 2004)

This is sorta off the original topic, but has anyone actually received their drive from Tivo.com yet? I ordered on Tuesday, and have yet to even receive a shipping e-mail. However, when I ordered my Series 3 I never received a shipping e-mail and my unit came the next day.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

fred2 said:


> Sometimes the squeaky complainer does get satisfaction. So TokeoShoe has the freedom to keep the heat (questions) on Tivo.


I do believe youre the first to come to the gentlemans defense. New here? 

Seriously, I couldn't agree more with your first point...almost every view has value in some way shape or form. Solid opinions have not only changed the direction of companies, but the world. However in our little TiVo universe Mr. Shoe doesnt have questions he has one grievance (with which I generally agree for the record). The issue that I and others have is that he has posted the same complaint over and over and over in thread after thread after thread.

That sort of thing isn't helpful to anyones cause and can actually be quite counter productive. Perpetuating disputes by sticking to a claim or point of view long after it has been made, repeating it almost without end calls into question the credibility of that very POV based on the writers observed unnatural, obsessive behavior.

Good point-counter-point discussions are worthwhile and TiVo needs to hear them. A broken record is, well, broken.

Okay, nuff said.


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## kirk1701 (Feb 5, 2007)

singletb said:


> This is sorta off the original topic, but has anyone actually received their drive from Tivo.com yet? I ordered on Tuesday, and have yet to even receive a shipping e-mail. However, when I ordered my Series 3 I never received a shipping e-mail and my unit came the next day.


Check the status in your account under order history.

My status is still saying "order placed" under status and still gives me the option to cancel order so I'd say they are backlogged a week already.


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## singletb (May 12, 2004)

kirk1701 said:


> Check the status in your account under order history.
> 
> My status is still saying "order placed" under status and still gives me the option to cancel order so I'd say they are backlogged a week already.


Yeah, I have the same status, but my S3 came randomly too.


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## mrmike (May 2, 2001)

Jonathan_S said:


> I think it was 14 hours (at basic).
> Which must have seemed big in comparison to a VHS tape.


You're correct. I still have one in unmolested condition that is in service today.

-MM

P.S. My sister uses her S3 in "Basic" all the time. They do exist.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

The reason you need a much bigger hard drive on the Tivo HD is that you really are only getting 27-30 hours of HD on there.

That's like reverting back to a 30 hour tivo SD in terms of hours of programming.

Last night I had to either watch something or delete something, and it was late and I was forced to delete the 5 remaning "The War" shows in HD, and wait until they will ecord again in a few weeks.

Tripling my space will make it so I never have to make that choice again, will help a lot during vacations, etc..

-smak-


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## ahaley (Apr 15, 2003)

richsadams said:


> Man up and deal with it or do us all a favor and take your TiVo back for a refund and take up some other pastime.


Yes, be a Tivo fanboy apologist or move on, no dissent or unwelcome opinions here. Hack as much as you are allowed to and then say you're sorry and tell Tivo you love them or you will be kicked off the island.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

ahaley said:


> Yes, be a Tivo fanboy apologist or move on, no dissent or unwelcome opinions here. Hack as much as you are allowed to and then say you're sorry and tell Tivo you love them or you will be kicked off the island.


After umpteen posts saying the same exact thing on a dozen or more threads we were all getting tired of the OP's whining ...but then you'd know that had you spent any time here plowing through them all. Thanks for highlighting my post though. 

With regard to my being a TiVo fanboy, if you had taken the time to read through any number of my contributions youd also know that Ive posted my share of TiVo complaints. However Ive also done my best to offer help and support to those asking for it, not to mention thanks to many others that have leant me a hand along the way. That said, your opinion is duly noted.

Dissent in the form of constructive criticism, focusing on problems as well as helpful feedback has always been more than welcome IMO. Using the forum to point fingers, call others names and repeatedly whine and cry about things not going your way is generally unproductive...again, IMHO. YMMV.


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## visionary (May 31, 2006)

I am amazed the obvious reason to need a bigger drive has not been said. I had a 32 hour S3 and do keep it watched, but we went on a vacation for over a week, and it ended up erasing shows. That is the reason you need longer storage, you may not be home. Don't forget sickness and hospital stays and stuff like that either, when you do get home it will be great to have those hours to view while recuperating. You might also have a job reason to travel some and any number of other good reasons to have to be not home.


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## andrews777 (Aug 23, 2007)

richsadams said:


> After umpteen posts saying the same exact thing on a dozen or more threads we were all getting tired of the OP's whining ...but then you'd know that had you spent any time here plowing through them all. Thanks for highlighting my post though.
> 
> With regard to my being a TiVo fanboy, if you had taken the time to read through any number of my contributions youd also know that Ive posted my share of TiVo complaints. However Ive also done my best to offer help and support to those asking for it, not to mention thanks to many others that have leant me a hand along the way. That said, your opinion is duly noted.
> 
> Dissent in the form of constructive criticism, focusing on problems as well as helpful feedback has always been more than welcome IMO. Using the forum to point fingers, call others names and repeatedly whine and cry about things not going your way is generally unproductive...again, IMHO. YMMV.


The problem I see is that many of the "complaints" are not being dealt with, even by other posters. That is probably spurring the continued pushing of the content.

Limiting the only "officially allowed and permitted" solution to 500 GB is horrid. I am now faced with the decision on whether to plunk >$400 down to give my 2 units the max/only allowed storage option now or to live with horrible storage (for HD) for a year or more. 

Brad


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

moyekj said:


> I still don't get the fascination of HUGE drives attached to Tivo.


I wouldn't call it fascination. 'Merely modifying a device so it handles my needs.



moyekj said:


> Keeping a bunch of stuff on there clutters things up (Tivo has very limited organizing capabilities)


It is indeed still limited, but with the introduction of folders and variable sort parameters, it's not too bad. It surely could be better. I wish TiVo would arrange to license or support TiVoWeb Plus.



moyekj said:


> and slows down the software doesn't it (can't imagine bringing up Now Playing List with 100s of shows)?


No. Sort lists on a database as simple as a TiVo's require trivially small amounts of computing power, and it's only employed when one changes the screen by initiating the sort or pressing the up or down keys.



moyekj said:


> If you build up a whole bunch of stuff to watch later then when will you ever get time to watch it?


Possibly never. Indeed, I don't watch most of the TiVo suggestions. That's not the point at all. The point of a DVR is time shifting. One can set artificial limits on the maximum time one may shift the program, but to what end? Why not eliminate the limit since technology allows it?

Indeed, to my point of view, why ever delete a program at all? Now of course I do delete any casually recorded items such as TV series, but if I record a movie, unless I don't like the movie I may never delete it. There are over 300 movies and documentaries on my TiVos right now, and I've watched some of them many, many times. Others are awaiting my particular mood. Others are awaiting company who may wish to see them.

When I have company over for theater night, it's not very politic if I can only pull up a list of 10 or 12 programs from which to select to watch. They're much more likely to find domething they like if the list is much larger.

Many of my brothers, sisters, and cousins live in other cities. Some only visit on holidays. I have a number of programs which have been recorded since their last visit in July, and we'll watch them when they come down for Thanksgiving. Without the large drives those would likely have been lost.



moyekj said:


> For me there's stuff to watch on TV pretty much year round so there's never dead time for me where I can catch up on old stuff.


I've posted on this at length before, but the odds there is something which fits my mood at the time I sit down out of a list of 10 or 12 is much lower than if the list is 200 or 300 strong.

Of course, now that TTG and MRV are enabled, the larger drives are not nearly as necessary, but until a solution comes along which allows me to transfer every recordinng off to a server, not just some of them, the large hard dives are essential.



moyekj said:


> Now with the ability for many to offload programs to PCs I see even less urgency for bigger drives on the Tivos.


True, but this ability is still quite limited. Only about half the movies I have recorded can be moved, and even with moving all the ones which can move, both my Series III TiVos with a total of 3T of storage will be full sometime early next year.



moyekj said:


> If you want to save a whole series then isn't it more convenient to store on a PC to have the ability to easily organize things as you want?


This assumes the series will transfer. I am in the process of doing that very thing with Star Trek the Next Generation. I am not allowed to do so with most of the Planet Earth, Harry Potter, or Star Wars episodes. I expect I won't be able to if and when From the Earth to the Moon is shown in HD.



moyekj said:


> Or just get the DVD set?


1. That assumes they are available on Blu-ray or HD-DVD. There's no point in purchasing standard DVDs. Thousands of SD videos will fit on the TiVos.

2. It costs money. A lot of money. Nonetheless, I will do so provided:

3. The HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray battle reachesa resolution or at least a cease-fire.

4. Someone produces a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD jukebox. I'm not going to "upgrade" from a 400 disc unit to a 1 disc unit.

All of that is to come in the future, however, so for the mean time large hard drives on the TiVo are the primary solution.



moyekj said:


> I feel like I'm missing something here and left out of the party.


Well, if the party is movie night with your friends or relatives and you only have a choice of 10 or 15 HD programs from which to choose, then at the very least it's a limited party you are attending. If you're happy with that, then that 's just fine. At my parties it can be a challenge to find a program which suits everyone even with a choice of several hundred. I sometimes find it difficult to find something I want to watch myself if I'm in a difficult mood.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

visionary said:


> I am amazed the obvious reason to need a bigger drive has not been said. I had a 32 hour S3 and do keep it watched, but we went on a vacation for over a week, and it ended up erasing shows. That is the reason you need longer storage, you may not be home. Don't forget sickness and hospital stays and stuff like that either, when you do get home it will be great to have those hours to view while recuperating. You might also have a job reason to travel some and any number of other good reasons to have to be not home.


Hmm. The "officially supported" setup sports 750G, or about 150 hours of recording. Do you really record more than 150 hours in a week? Even I don't record that much. I'm the first to rally for larger drives. As I've mentioned many times I have 3T on the TiVos and 2T on the server. I don't see how most users would need more than 750G to store a week or so of programs.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Not sure what size HDD my S3 came with, but it was just a tad too small to suit me. I've had every interation of TiVo since the series 1 and this was the first time I've felt the need for a little bit more space. It's the first time I've had shows roll off the bottom of the list before I'd had a chance to see them. Also, I noticed that if I had a BIG event getting ready to record, then TIVo would knock out a whole BLOCK of stuff I'd had earmarked to "watch later" and then there'd be a bunch of stuff I'd miss. So I added a 500 Gig drive and now I have waaaaay more space than I need. 

If the S3 had come with about 250 more Gigs it would have been "enough" for me. Since I was going to the trouble of upgrading I went for 500. I can tell you, that the 500 addtional Gigs is far more than I need, but what the heck, it's nice to have the peace of mind that I can save a few things and not worry about the space it will eat up.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

andrews777 said:


> The problem I see is that many of the "complaints" are not being dealt with, even by other posters. That is probably spurring the continued pushing of the content.
> 
> Limiting the only "officially allowed and permitted" solution to 500 GB is horrid. I am now faced with the decision on whether to plunk >$400 down to give my 2 units the max/only allowed storage option now or to live with horrible storage (for HD) for a year or more.
> 
> Brad


Couldn't agree more. :up: And as I mentioned earlier, I actually sympathized and agreed with the OP's position...and yours of course, just not the endless restating of his grievance on every thread he could find, not to mention starting new ones.

It seems arbitrary and almost utter nonsense for TiVo to only offer a 500GB eSATA option. Perhaps they ended up testing larger drives and did in fact run into some sort of problem...but they really should communicate that fact if that's the case. Based on S3 user experience, we havent seen it but Im willing to give them the benefit of the doubt if theyll tell us why. It would even give some comfort if we knew TiVo was actually testing larger drive options, but theres been nothing to indicate that they are.

I can see the logic and reasoning behind keeping the eSATA feature under their control. I can't imagine trying to train CSR's to deal with all of the options people might come up with. But only offering a "one size fits all" solution when only two more, a 750GB and a 1TB could work just as well makes no sense as far as I can see...and I think I'm in the majority here.

Ive always thought that using a simplified DELL menu model would work and avoid the need for external expansion. Order your TiVo with drive A, B or C. Theres certainly an increased profit margin with the appropriate markup. They could even command more shelf space in B&M retail; other CE products follow that reasoning all of the time. But they have yet to ask me.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

richsadams said:


> Couldn't agree more. :up: And as I mentioned earlier, I actually sympathized and agreed with the OP's position...and yours of course, just not the endless restating of his grievance on every thread he could find, not to mention starting new ones.
> 
> It seems arbitrary and almost utter nonsense for TiVo to only offer a 500GB eSATA option. Perhaps they ended up testing larger drives and did in fact run into some sort of problem...but they really should communicate that fact if that's the case. Based on S3 user experience, we havent seen it but Im willing to give them the benefit of the doubt if theyll tell us why. It would even give some comfort if we knew TiVo was actually testing larger drive options, but theres been nothing to indicate that they are.
> 
> ...


I would suggest that Tivo likely entered into a Tivo beneficial business relationship with WD. WD's largest A/V drive is currently 500G per their website. I would imagine that WD would offer larger 'Expanders' once larger A/V drives become available.

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/index.asp?cat=7&language=en


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

SCSIRAID said:


> I would suggest that Tivo likely entered into a Tivo beneficial business relationship with WD. WD's largest A/V drive is currently 500G per their website. I would imagine that WD would offer larger 'Expanders' once larger A/V drives become available.
> 
> http://www.wdc.com/en/products/index.asp?cat=7&language=en


Yeah. I'm guessing they "made a deal" with WD and their "DVR Expander" line to be their sole supplier. I think that's the only reason it's limited to 500 Gigs right now. As soon as a larger drive is available form the manufacturer I'm sure those will be an option to purchase as well.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

smak said:


> Tripling my space will make it so I never have to make that choice again, will help a lot during vacations, etc..





visionary said:


> I am amazed the obvious reason to need a bigger drive has not been said. I had a 32 hour S3 and do keep it watched, but we went on a vacation for over a week, and it ended up erasing shows. That is the reason you need longer storage, you may not be home. Don't forget sickness and hospital stays and stuff like that either, when you do get home it will be great to have those hours to view while recuperating. You might also have a job reason to travel some and any number of other good reasons to have to be not home.


Ahem......

-smak-


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