# SF Bay Area Comcast S3 User beware



## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

Looks like Comcast may be flipping the switch on the HostID/Data field part of cable card paring tomorrow 4/18

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10321476&&#post10321476

"Some customers with CableCARDs may lose service completely or may experience missing channels (TV screen stating "One Moment Please" or "Unauthorized").

This may be due to missing Host ID and Data ID information associated with their CableCARD."

If you had swapped HDD, swapped CC 1/2, or done Clear and delete everything, be aware that the data field may change and cause your CC to not pair correctly.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

I was just about to send you a PM because I think you had mentioned (on another thread) one of the changes you had made resulted in new Data ID but your TiVo S3/CableCARDs continued to work fine (to which I responded it is likely your area hadn't enabled CPMS yet). Let us know what happens tomorrow (if you haven't already contacted Comcast with your new Data ID)

It is useful to get feedback on how the systems work in real usage vs how they are supposed to work in theory.


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## cfryer (Aug 21, 2004)

The post noted by yunlin12 also notes that there may be issues recording protected content.



> What Customers May Experience:
> 
> As the copy protection is turned on, the box will go to a black screen for a few seconds.
> 
> ...


Anyone with CPMS already enabled experiencing recording issues for premier services like HBO, etc...?


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

sfhub said:


> I was just about to send you a PM because I think you had mentioned (on another thread) one of the changes you had made resulted in new Data ID but your TiVo S3/CableCARDs continued to work fine (to which I responded it is likely your area hadn't enabled CPMS yet). Let us know what happens tomorrow (if you haven't already contacted Comcast with your new Data ID)
> 
> It is useful to get feedback on how the systems work in real usage vs how they are supposed to work in theory.


Thanks! I already called a couple of months ago with the new data ID, we'll see if they got it right.


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

yunlin12 said:


> Thanks! I already called a couple of months ago with the new data ID, we'll see if they got it right.


For Motorola cards, you can check if the cards have been properly validated by checking the Conditional Access cablecard screen. There's a line that says "Host Validation" If it says valid, you should be good to go, and will have no problem viewing copy protected content. If it says unknown, then comcast is going to have to fix things up on their side.

For SA Cards, the Copy Protection screen will say CP Auth Received if the cards are properly validated.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

Yeah, I've been checking the last few month, always says unknown so I know Comcast hadn't turned on the host id validation yet. Will keep my eyes on it this week.


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## CosmoGeek (Feb 26, 2007)

I'm in Mountain View and my Conditional Access screen says "Host Validation: Unknown 03". So you are saying that tomorrow it will say "Valid" or else I'm hosed?


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

CosmoGeek said:


> I'm in Mountain View and my Conditional Access screen says "Host Validation: Unknown 03". So you are saying that tomorrow it will say "Valid" or else I'm hosed?


If they turn on copy protection tomorrow, and it still says unknown, you'll be hosed.

The card needs to receive an explicit message from the headend to be validated. I would have expected them to send that message out well in advance of them turning on copy protection (since they'll have to send that message out for each and every card configured in the system). I actually would have expected them to send that message out when they collected the information (at install time, or when their contractor made all the phone calls).

So, if they send out the validation message, and then turn on copy protection, the cablecard screen will change to valid, and you should get all your channels just fine. However, if the validation message doesn't make it to the cablecard, and they turn on copy protection, you'll be hosed.

In case I wasn't clear in my description, there are two steps here:
1) card pairing is validated by the headend (also meaning you haven't explicitly broken the pairing by moving cards around, swapping hard drives, C&DE)
2) copy protection is turned on

The could do step 1 at any time, but you wouldn't notice a problem with this not happening until they do #2.

My vote is while they attempted to do #1 first, for some (most?) of their customers, #2 will happen first, and then you'll have a battle with the front line support people to have them fix the problem (There were some reports here of difficulties in the Denver area when they turned copy protection on for some premium channels).


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

CosmoGeek said:


> I'm in Mountain View and my Conditional Access screen says "Host Validation: Unknown 03". So you are saying that tomorrow it will say "Valid" or else I'm hosed?


These are what my CableCARDs say:
CableCARD 1
Encryption: DES
Connected:yes, EnabledByCP:yes
Auth: SUBSCRIBED
CA enable: possible
Host Validation: Valid 00
Copy Protection Key: Disabled

CableCARD 2
Encryption: DES
Connected:yes, EnabledByCP:yes
Auth: SUBSCRIBED
CA enable: possible
Host Validation: Valid 00
Copy Protection Key: Disabled


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## mikesay98 (Aug 26, 2006)

Mine say unknown as well, but I remember calling in and giving them all the necessary information for the pairing. I'm hoping they'll send the signal out before they activate everything.


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

I lost my premium channels last night here in Saratoga. Comcast is trying to fix the problem but even at the supervisor level, they're confused about what to do. They indicate that their instructions for my situation don't work.

I've got settings as follows:

EnabledByCP: no
CA enable: unknown
Auth: unknown
Host Validation: unknown
Copy Protection Key: Disabled

Prior to today, the cards have been working for seven months.
I changed disk drives since they last collected data which is probably at least part of the problem.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

retired_guy said:


> Prior to today, the cards have been working for seven months.
> I changed disk drives since they last collected data which is probably at least part of the problem.


Yes, that is almost definitely the problem. It has been discussed before that certain operations result in regeneration of the Data ID for the CableCARDs.

You need to give Comcast the new Data ID. The Host ID remains the same, but it wouldn't hurt to give them that also. Then they probably need to send an initialization hit to the cards.

Maybe Roderigo can give you more details.


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

I've given them all of the new data, but they can't fix the problem. We've been at this over an hour so far--they say I'm the first for something ???? The supervisor has now forwarded the problem to "the installation department" and I should be getting a call from them when they figure it out.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

retired_guy said:


> I've given them all of the new data, but they can't fix the problem. We've been at this over an hour so far--they say I'm the first for something ???? The supervisor has now forwarded the problem to "the installation department" and I should be getting a call from them when they figure it out.


Sometimes when you get stuck in a rut with Comcast, even though a person over there who knows what's going on can get it fixed with your current cards, it may be faster to have them bring out 2 new cards and redo the install process with fresh cards than to navigate through support until you find that "expert"


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

The "expert" fixed cable card 1 and did something to cable card 2 which changed some of the fields, although it still wasn't enabled. After a second call to Comcast, the person who answered did another hit to cable card 2 and it did fix the problem. The second guy said that he didn't have access to the "data" field, but could only do hits; the second level guy did have access, but couldn't enable the cards and referred it to the "expert". I guess the message in this is to not get discouraged; but it did take over three hours of my time to get things resolved.


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## mikesay98 (Aug 26, 2006)

Still says unknown here, but I'm missing no channels. However, I have no "premium" channels like HBO. I mention this only because I remember reading somewhere in the AVS post about Discovery HD, etc, and I'm still getting that, UHD, TNT HD, etc.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

Thsi thread prompted me to check, there was no noticeable effect on my S3.


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

mikesay98 said:


> Still says unknown here, but I'm missing no channels. However, I have no "premium" channels like HBO. I mention this only because I remember reading somewhere in the AVS post about Discovery HD, etc, and I'm still getting that, UHD, TNT HD, etc.


That's exactly what happened to me when Comcast activated the "pairing". The fix was for them to change the data field for both cards and reactivate both.


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## mikesay98 (Aug 26, 2006)

retired_guy said:


> That's exactly what happened to me when Comcast activated the "pairing". The fix was for them to change the data field for both cards and reactivate both.


Just in case it sounded otherwise, I mean I don't subscribe to those "premium" channels so that's why I'm not getting them. Didn't want to confuse anyone...


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Yep I am in Cupertino and lost all the premiums. The CSR tried the basic hit but nada. He is going to get his supervisor to do a higher level init. Service call scheduled for the AM if it doesnt fix it.

Needless to say this is a very expensive implementation for everybody. It's too bad the S3 as a high end unit wasn't designed with replaceable card modules like say the tuner and stuff.

I think people would have been less upset if they knew their high end unit could easily upgrade along the way like PCs do.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

zalusky said:


> Yep I am in Cupertino and lost all the premiums. The CSR tried the basic hit but nada. He is going to get his supervisor to do a higher level init. Service call scheduled for the AM if it doesnt fix it.
> 
> Needless to say this is a very expensive implementation for everybody. It's too bad the S3 as a high end unit wasn't designed with replaceable card modules like say the tuner and stuff.
> 
> I think people would have been less upset if they knew their high end unit could easily upgrade along the way like PCs do.


I'm confused how your suggestion of replaceable modules would resolve the current problem you are seeing. The current problem is a problem with identification information not matching which could happen regardless of whether the modules were replaceable. If you are referring to why the Data ID changes with certain actions, that is either a design choice imposed on TiVo or it is an oversight.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

sfhub said:


> I'm confused how your suggestion of replaceable modules would resolve the current problem you are seeing. The current problem is a problem with identification information not matching which could happen regardless of whether the modules were replaceable. If you are referring to why the Data ID changes with certain actions, that is either a design choice imposed on TiVo or it is an oversight.


Its not related directly. I was just saying this whole cable card solution seems to be a very expensive process with lots of card swaps and service calls.

As a result I wouldnt be very surprised if Tivo and Comcast eventually walk away from the S3. However the S3 which was architected as a Lexus, would truly have had a better future if it was designed with replaceable sections. Maybe not.

They probably think just replace the whole with a middle of the road box.
The idea of the S3 was supposed to be expandable beyond Cable and they are trying to do that but a lot of times you need HW help like more disk/memory, improved tuners, ...


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

zalusky said:


> Its not related directly. I was just saying this whole cable card solution seems to be a very expensive process with lots of card swaps and service calls.


Its not supposed to be. It should be a question of plugging in cards, the head end programs it, and it works. That how it was for me.

Comcast are just incompetant and don't want cable cards, that's why I say bring on the integration ban. If their main revenue streem depends on cable cards, they'll get it right in a hurry.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

zalusky said:


> Its not related directly. I was just saying this whole cable card solution seems to be a very expensive process with lots of card swaps and service calls.
> 
> As a result I wouldnt be very surprised if Tivo and Comcast eventually walk away from the S3. However the S3 which was architected as a Lexus, would truly have had a better future if it was designed with replaceable sections. Maybe not.


The problem is TiVo cannot just design something on their own. They need cooperation from the cable companies in the form of externalized encryption. CableCARD is what the MSOs came up with, so that is what TiVo had to use.

My CableCARDs have actually worked fine from the beginning, even through the enabling of CPMS. These other problems are because of human error somewhere on Comcast's side. You can only do so much to mitigate human error through clever design. At some point you will depend on humans to configure the system, and in this case Comcast has not properly prepared their support people to handle the known problems that could happen with enabling CPMS. They even sent out a note that described the potential problems, so some parts of Comcast are fully aware of the problems that could happen. The problem is the people who know, didn't leave a phone #, and instead have you call into the main #, which has no clue what your problem is. It should get better over time.


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

My cards failed again when I tried to look at HBO. The problem is really weird, in that the two cards were alternating enabled state as I tried to watch HBO. Then they both failed. I called Comcast and they enabled card #1 but not #2. Finally, I restarted the TiVo and it showed both enabled. But then after trying to watch HBO again, both cards went into the not enabled state. Comcast was able to get Card #1 enabled again, but not #2. I finally decided I need restart with two new cards and a guy is coming out tomorrow morning with them (hopefully). This truly is a messy problem--I'm concerned that these cable card problems are going to sink TiVo's efforts to ever have a cost effective HD box; it's starting to get to get even me, a long term TiVo fan with a teck background, thinking about getting one of those lousy Comcast Motorola boxes again.


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## CosmoGeek (Feb 26, 2007)

retired_guy said:


> My cards failed again when I tried to look at HBO. The problem is really weird, in that the two cards were alternating enabled state as I tried to watch HBO. Then they both failed. I called Comcast and they enabled card #1 but not #2. Finally, I restarted the TiVo and it showed both enabled. But then after trying to watch HBO again, both cards went into the not enabled state. Comcast was able to get Card #1 enabled again, but not #2. I finally decided I need restart with two new cards and a guy is coming out tomorrow morning with them (hopefully). This truly is a messy problem--I'm concerned that these cable card problems are going to sink TiVo's efforts to ever have a cost effective HD box; it's starting to get to get even me, a long term TiVo fan with a teck background, thinking about getting one of those lousy Comcast Motorola boxes again.


I hear ya! I've lost channels several times since I got the S3, although this switch hasn't affected me yet. The S3 has been a high maintenance item for me too. In fact, I can't think of any device I've ever owned that has been higher maintenance. Actually I think DSL has been a bigger pain over the years but it has been pretty stable lately.

Don't give up. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to have a decent S3 experience eventually. Get them to solve your Pixelization issues also. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## ampm99 (Feb 17, 2003)

CSR said Comcast has a large problem systemwide with cable card pairings. They hired a company to do the pairings and apparently they were supposed to register all the cable card pairings. They sent out a signal to disable all card not registered and screwed it it up. Instead of disabling registered cards they disabled all cards in a wide area. The CSR claimed to be receiving hundreds of calls from cablecard customers. Who knows the truth here. He claimed they were working on it from Comcast central. probably tomorrow before premium channels are restored. At least I got one day credit.

Does anyone believe this csr?


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## JPShinn (Aug 24, 2004)

It's 10:45 p on Thursday and I've lost HBO. I just got off the phone with Customer Service and they "know" about the issue but have zero ETA. This is one of the most pathetic f ups I have ever seen. They offered zero solutions and zero assistance other than a truck roll. This is their fault and I shouldn't have to miss work for their issue. Has anyone out there gotten a any decent fix/solution for this?


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

JPShinn said:


> It's 10:45 p on Thursday and I've lost HBO. I just got off the phone with Customer Service and they "know" about the issue but have zero ETA. This is one of the most pathetic f ups I have ever seen. They offered zero solutions and zero assistance other than a truck roll. This is their fault and I shouldn't have to miss work for their issue. Has anyone out there gotten a any decent fix/solution for this?


My "truck roll" is this morning, so I'll let you know what comes of that. Hopefully two new cards will fix the problem. I've had the Series3 for seven months and it worked quite well up to the time of the latest software release. Since then, I've had more problems than my other four Series2s have had in their lifetimes. Terrible pixelization, the remote died and now the cable card problem. Not only that, the installation of the latest Series2 release seems to have created duplicate IP addresses which have impacted my wife's PC--for those of you who are married, you know how minor TiVo problems are compared to those of a furious wife.


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## Bighouse (Sep 3, 2004)

Comcast truck scheduled to be at my place this morning...I'm having issues now that I'm sure are related to this fiasco.
The first install of my cable cards went well...why do I have a nagging feeling that this time it won't be the case???


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## shady (May 31, 2002)

ampm99 said:


> At least I got one day credit.


I missed a Formula 1 race before because Comcast screwed up, and at the time, all they could do was give me 1 day credit. At the time, there was no real way of monetarizing the cost of missing a show so I just accepted it.

But now, with things like Amazon Unbox and ITunes, we know exactly how much we have to pay to get the missed shows from elsewhere. If everyone demanded reimbursement of the download costs incurred while the service was down, I'm sure Comcast would spend much more on maintaining their service.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

ampm99 said:


> CSR said Comcast has a large problem systemwide with cable card pairings. They hired a company to do the pairings and apparently they were supposed to register all the cable card pairings. They sent out a signal to disable all card not registered and screwed it it up. *Instead of disabling registered cards they disabled all cards in a wide area.* The CSR claimed to be receiving hundreds of calls from cablecard customers. Who knows the truth here. He claimed they were working on it from Comcast central. probably tomorrow before premium channels are restored. At least I got one day credit.
> 
> Does anyone believe this csr?


Some of it might be true, but I think it is a matter of facts getting distorted as the information passes from person to person, like the telephone game.

I can tell you for sure they did not disable *all* cards in a wide area, because there are people in my area that have it working and not working. Mine work fine.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

shady said:


> I missed a Formula 1 race before because Comcast screwed up, and at the time, all they could do was give me 1 day credit. At the time, there was no real way of monetarizing the cost of missing a show so I just accepted


If what you missed is not available on VOD, maybe you can ask them for 1 VOD credit to watch something else, since what you wanted to watch presumably is no longer available to you.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

retired_guy said:


> Not only that, the installation of the latest Series2 release seems to have created duplicate IP addresses which have impacted my wife's PC--for those of you who are married, you know how minor TiVo problems are compared to those of a furious wife.


That doesn't sound like a Series2 specific problem. Sounds more like a network config issue.


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## shady (May 31, 2002)

sfhub said:


> If what you missed is not available on VOD, maybe you can ask them for 1 VOD credit to watch something else, since what you wanted to watch presumably is no longer available to you.


VOD and Series3 don't mix


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## ampm99 (Feb 17, 2003)

Called this morning because HBO still out and guess what? Comcast has NO IDEA what I was talking about last night. They have no emails on an outage, no record of my call last night and they are sending a repairman out tomorrow to fix my "INDIVUDUAL" problem! 

On Wednesday I had just turned HBO off on Directv as I transition to COMCAST. The only reason I am keeping Directv is for east coast SD stations. maybe I should turn HBO back on with directv and off with COMCAST 

I had to argue with a supervisor to have the repairman tomorrow bring 4 new cable cards to fix my 2 series3 tivos. They initially said that since they didn't know what the problem was they want the tech to diagnose it. I told them that I KNOW what the problem is and I'm sure they want to avoid the 3 separate service calls it took to install each of my tivos. A supervisor sent a signal to all my current cards but said that is all the diagnosis they do from the central office. They insist on a tech doing diagnosis onsite. This is especially stupid since both my installs were fixed finally by some level 2 tech at a central location.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

I'm in Milpitas, and as expected, the cable card with the Host Validation:Unknown lost the premium channels (CCI=0x2), and the one with Host Validation:Valid works fine. Called in, they said lots of people are having problems, they took the host/data number, I waited the required hour, and no change. Called again: they took the numbers again, and said that I should be getting a call from them today, else a truck roll on Tuesday  .

Talk about FUBAR.


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## myosh_tino (Dec 7, 2004)

I've noticed most of this issues are with premium channels like HBO. Is there any known issues with standard digital cable channels?

I have a Series3 w/CableCards in Cupertino but I do not subscribe to any premium channels so I'm wondering if I should be worried.


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

I was hoping Santa Cruz would be spared the "Bay Area" problem... I wasn't so lucky... It must have flipped at some point last night for me, as a recording on HBO failed.

I've had 3 calls with Comcast so far this morning. The first call said it would be fixed in 10 minutes. Called back 15 minutes later. "Sorry, Sir. They originally told us that, but it's really an hour." Called after an hour "We sent the signal. Oh wait, we didn't send the signal. I'll send it now." I asked how busy the system was, and was told 15 more minutes for the signal to make it to my cards...

Still waiting...


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

myosh_tino said:


> I've noticed most of this issues are with premium channels like HBO. Is there any known issues with standard digital cable channels?
> 
> I have a Series3 w/CableCards in Cupertino but I do not subscribe to any premium channels so I'm wondering if I should be worried.


Two part answer:
1) At least on the Santa Cruz system, it appears to be premium channels: Encore, Starz, HBO, Showtime. Interestingly, TMC wasn't impacted.

2) However, as was evidenced by this hiccup, at any point they can decide to turn on copy protection for any digital channel (i.e. the broadcaster could suddenly request copy protection, and Comcast would turn it on), and then you'd be impacted.


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

sfhub said:


> That doesn't sound like a Series2 specific problem. Sounds more like a network config issue.


It certainly may be, although everything on my network was working fine two days ago; the only change was in the TiVos, so the wife is blaming them for the problem. In any case, the TiVos themselves don't have any networking issues.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

If you configure the S3 for static IP and the wife's PC for static IP, then one of them is duplicate in the config. If both are configured for DHCP, then the DHCP should make sure there are no duplicates. If you have one configured DHCP and the other configured static, then it is possible to see the behavior you are seeing, due to configuration error, the static IP could be within the range that the DHCP server is handing out. If you configure everything for DHCP it shouldn't be an issue. Alternately if you configure both for static and make sure the same IP is not used twice it won't be a problem. You can also make sure the one configured for static IP is not within the range used by the DHCP server.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

myosh_tino said:


> I've noticed most of this issues are with premium channels like HBO. Is there any known issues with standard digital cable channels?
> 
> I have a Series3 w/CableCards in Cupertino but I do not subscribe to any premium channels so I'm wondering if I should be worried.


Basically if the CCI byte is 0x00 for a particular channel, it shouldn't be affected. If the particular channel has CCI non-zero (0x01, 0x02, 0x03) then it it is a candidate for being affected if they have turned on CPMS for your area. If your cards are configured and working properly there will be no issue. If not, the channels with non-zero CCI might be lost.

To see the CCI byte for a particular channel, tune to the channel in LiveTV. Then go to "TiVoMenu->Messages&Settings->Account&SystemInformation->Diagnostics" and find the appropriate tuner (by using ch+/-), then find the CCI Byte: field. To check the next channel, Press LiveTV, tune the next channel, then press left arrow once or twice depending on whether the channel banner is still up.


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

Comcast came out today and tried two new cable cards, but after activating them, I couldn't get any digital channels. So we decided to go back to the original cable cards, which only lacked the premium channels. After going through the activation process again for the old cards, ALL channels came back, including premium channels. How about that??

That's the good news; the bad news is that as part of their activation process, they deactivated my Comcast STB so it can not get ANY channels. It's connected to my 57H, not the Series3. They're coming back again later to try to fix that problem.


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

sfhub said:


> If you configure the S3 for static IP and the wife's PC for static IP, then one of them is duplicate in the config. If both are configured for DHCP, then the DHCP should make sure there are no duplicates. If you have one configured DHCP and the other configured static, then it is possible to see the behavior you are seeing, due to configuration error, the static IP could be within the range that the DHCP server is handing out. If you configure everything for DHCP it shouldn't be an issue. Alternately if you configure both for static and make sure the same IP is not used twice it won't be a problem. You can also make sure the one configured for static IP is not within the range used by the DHCP server.


I don't have any static IP address that I know of. Something strange going on here, although by screwing around with the systems, rebooting, etc, I seem to have fixed the problem--my wife no longer is getting the duplicate IP address message.


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

retired_guy said:


> Comcast came out today and tried two new cable cards, but after activating them, I couldn't get any digital channels. So we decided to go back to the original cable cards, which only lacked the premium channels. After going through the activation process again for the old cards, ALL channels came back, including premium channels. How about that??
> 
> That's the good news; the bad news is that as part of their activation process, they deactivated my Comcast STB so it can not get ANY channels. It's connected to my 57H, not the Series3. They're coming back again later to try to fix that problem.


I found the problem with the STB. When the Comcast guy moved the cable from my splitter to his unpowered splitter, he broke off the wire inside the connector, so that no signal was going from the splitter to the STB. I replaced the cable with a good one and all is fine. I had been feeling like Joe BTFSPLK.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

CharlesH said:


> I'm in Milpitas, and as expected, the cable card with the Host Validation:Unknown lost the premium channels (CCI=0x2), and the one with Host Validation:Valid works fine. Called in, they said lots of people are having problems, they took the host/data number, I waited the required hour, and no change. Called again: they took the numbers again, and said that I should be getting a call from them today, else a truck roll on Tuesday


Looks like it's going to be the truck roll on Tuesday :down: :down: Given the flakeyness of this cablecard thing, it would be a good idea for the TiVo to detect the "unauthorized" state on one card, and try the other card, in case one of them is screwed up


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

You can probably pull out the card that is broken as a temporary workaround.


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## TBoyd (Apr 9, 2000)

Just got home from work and HBO and ENCORE out on both cards. Funny, they'd taken all my numbers months ago. Oh well, they say wait about :30 and then call back if no joy. They seem to be VERY busy on this and knew the problem right away. 

I'll send an update later tonight on success or failure. 

Tim


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

Same thing here, in San Jose. Lost all premium channels HBO, Encore. No problem with all other like ESPNHD, UHD, MHD, INHD, IFC, Sundance, etc. Called Comcast, and they were aware of the problem immediately, so we went to check the cable cards. We checked cable card ID and host ID, both are matching their record. They said if the cable card ID don't match, I won't get any of the digital channels. But they said they don't need the Data ID. Anyway they sent some signals, and say to wait 5 min to see if it gets it... Their supervisor says this has worked for others so far.

For those who got it to work, did you have to pull the cards and put back in? Did you have to power cycle anything?

My "Host Validation" in Conditional Access menu on both cards still say "Unknown 00". And when I tune to a premium channel, my "EnabledByCP" field in that menu changes from "yes" to "no, and "CCI" changes from "0x00" to "0x02".


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

retired_guy said:


> Comcast came out today and tried two new cable cards, but after activating them, I couldn't get any digital channels. So we decided to go back to the original cable cards, which only lacked the premium channels. After going through the activation process again for the old cards, ALL channels came back, including premium channels. How about that??


Did they ask you for the Data ID?


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## CosmoGeek (Feb 26, 2007)

yunlin12 said:


> My "Host Validation" in Conditional Access menu on both cards still say "Unknown 00". And when I tune to a premium channel, my "EnabledByCP" field in that menu changes from "yes" to "no, and "CCI" changes from "0x00" to "0x02".


Same thing here in Mountain View. I just got home and checked and I am now part of the fubar crowd. Will the problems ever end! I guess I'll call Comcast now, AGAIN! I just called them less than two weeks ago. I've lost track of all of the times my S3 has lost some channels and Comcast has had to do something to get them back. Aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(takes a deep breath)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## mikesay98 (Aug 26, 2006)

Personally I think their whole system was flawed. I'm still getting all my channels (no premium as I don't subscribe) but they called and left a message about the pairing a few weeks ago. So I call and give all the necessary info and complete the process. Then a few days later, they call back about the same thing; the guy starts leaving a message equal to the previous one, and then halfway through realizes that I've already completed the process and says to disregard the message and hangs up. Clearly whoever was in charge here completely dropped the ball. What people need to do is find out who that is (if possible), then really go from there.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

The outsource the gathering of Host/Data information to UEI. Those are the guys that make a lot of remotes, including OneForAll, many Radio Shack, and some Motorola remotes. The theory being with all the different devices CableCARDs might be installed into, better to have a company familiar with various remotes doing the information gathering.


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

yunlin12 said:


> Did they ask you for the Data ID?


They put in the data id and host field on the original cards and tried to enable them but I still couldn't get the premium channels Then we tried the new cards, put the new data and host data in and tried to authenticate them, but then all channels other than analog were gone. So we went back to the original cards which at least had allowed the non-premium channels, again put in the host id (which hadn't changed) and data field for both cards and they "hit" them. This time, everything worked fine and the premium channels came back. All cards were Motorola at the 4.21 level. As I indicated earlier, it's all very weird.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

retired_guy said:


> They put in the data id and host field on the original cards and tried to enable them but I still couldn't get the premium channels Then we tried the new cards, put the new data and host data in and tried to authenticate them, but then all channels other than analog were gone. So we went back to the original cards which at least had allowed the non-premium channels, again put in the host id (which hadn't changed) and data field for both cards and they "hit" them. This time, everything worked fine and the premium channels came back. All cards were Motorola at the 4.21 level. As I indicated earlier, it's all very weird.


Maybe they have script that tries to be smart and decides it doesn't need to sync the DAC and CPMS systems if the host/data hasn't changed, thus if the information gets out of sync, no amount of reentering the same host/data will get it to sync.

If that is the case, it seems the quickest way to get things working is to swap CC1/2 so new Data fields are regenerated, then give them the new Host/Data pairs so they can perform a full reinitialization hit.


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## jbrasure (Jan 1, 2007)

I live in Belmont, and I have two Tivo S3's. One Tivo lost the premium channels, but the other one is doing fine. How strange is that?

I called Comcast, but they were unable to resolve the issue over the phone. They'll be sending out a technician to fix the problem.


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## Kenji (Jun 29, 2003)

I live in Oakland and I've lost my premium channels as well. The Comcast representative I spoke with on the phone said that she would restore my channels within an hour or so, but that was three hours ago and I'm still down. I guess it's time to schedule an in-house appointment. Sigh.


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## CosmoGeek (Feb 26, 2007)

As expected, my calls to Comcast have been less than satisfying. I called and told them I had lost the HBO channels. After reading back all the Host/Data numbers, the CSR put me on hold for about 30 minutes and then asked how it was now. Well now I had lost all of my digital channels. More time on hold and then CC1 seemed to be getting everything but no change to CC2. Then she sent out another initialize and now CC1 couldn't receive any channels, not even analog. It just said, "No Channels Available". The CSR said it would take some time so we hung up. After 1.5 hours I call back. I give the new CSR all the numbers again, He gets CC1 to work but still no luck with CC2. So I've gone from getting no premium channels on CC1 and CC2 to getting all channels on CC1 but only analog channels on CC2. The truck rolls to my house tomorrow morning. Looks like another weekend day ruined while I deal with Comcast.


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

After reading the most recent posts, I guess I'm the lucky one. 

After my report from above, I finally got a rep who said they were bottlenecked (not surprising there), and couldn't promise it would be fixed until tonight. When I got home from work, 3 of my cards were working! One more call, and they actually got the 4th card working while I was still on the phone.

So, success, without losing any channels, and without needing a truck roll :up: 

My hints. Regardless of what they ask for, give them this information for each card:
1) The serial number. Unfortunately, this is the number that's printed on the card itself, and starts with NG. It seems like this is sufficient for them, and they don't need the cablecard id.

2) The Host ID from the cablecard pairing screen

3) The Data number from the pairing screen.

Have them read back all the numbers, to make sure they got it right. It seems like the phone people aren't actually entering the data, but passing it along to a supervisor - so it's still possible they'll enter it wrong, but you're at least sure they have the correct information from you.

Good Luck everyone.. Back to HBO for me.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

A second call to Comcast, and this time they asked for the Data ID, so the first CSR was wrong. they said that they would input the updated info to the system and things should be working in 1 hour, but it's been 3 hours and nothing has changed.


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## CosmoGeek (Feb 26, 2007)

Roderigo said:


> My hints. Regardless of what they ask for, give them this information for each card:
> 
> 1) The serial number. Unfortunately, this is the number that's printed on the card itself, and starts with NG. It seems like this is sufficient for them, and they don't need the cablecard id.
> 
> ...


This is what I did but I suspect that they got one of the numbers wrong for CC2.

I also got the impression that they only use the serial numbers for their own identification purposes but that signals being sent out do not contain the serial number and that the CC does not identify messages via it's serial number. Truck roll in 6 minutes.


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## Bighouse (Sep 3, 2004)

Well, Comcast came out yesterday and fixed my problems...Pretty uneventful fix. Everything went just fine.


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## JPShinn (Aug 24, 2004)

Has anyone gotten this problem solved? I've been on with 2 different CSRs and have been elevated 2 times to a supervisor. No Joy.


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## Innerloop (Sep 10, 2000)

JPShinn said:


> Has anyone gotten this problem solved? I've been on with 2 different CSRs and have been elevated 2 times to a supervisor. No Joy.


No luck. It seems absurd that someone like this isn't a trivial fix.

I've called them 4 times now, various permutations of giving them my numbers. Some ask for the Serial #s on the cards, some don't. All (including one Supervisor) have tried any number of signals or hits on the cards. No change. Once they did something that caused a Tivo "161-4" error to appear before the usual Cable Card black-screen, but no change in behavior. Never saw anything other than "UNKNOWN" in the authentication line.

Crazy. The Supervisor clearly tried a bunch of different kinds of signals. One guy even had me reboot my Tivo (zzz) but no change.

Curious to hear if anyone has found a type of fix via CSR that works anywhere in the country. How ridiculous this is.


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## CosmoGeek (Feb 26, 2007)

Just got through with my truck roll and no joy for me. He didn't bring any cable cards; said they were out. He phoned in all of the numbers and sent "three signals" to the card. Nothing! He says that my cable card is bad. This seems unlikely to me since it was working until they did something on their end yesterday.

On the conditional access screen, it says "Connected: no". It is supposed to say yes. 

They are going to send out another truck on Monday with a new cable card. Until then, I have one tuner working. In addition to the 10 days it took to get my cable cards working initially, this is now the third time I have spiraled into lost channels hell with Comcast.

One funny thing is that I am gettin MPLEX on CC2 even though he assures me that it is a digital channel. As far as I know, it is the only digital channel I am getting on CC2.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

CosmoGeek said:


> One funny thing is that I am gettin MPLEX on CC2 even though he assures me that it is a digital channel. As far as I know, it is the only digital channel I am getting on CC2.


It is a digital channel, but in many areas it isn't being encrypted. It does however have CCI=0x02 in my area.


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## jonman21 (Dec 19, 2006)

I don't know if I'm a lucky one or if it's because they've been dealing with these problems for a few days now...

I was only missing HBO-HD, so I just called 15 minutes ago and the CSR said they've been dealing with this for a couple days now and took down both cable cards' host & data ID numbers (no serial numbers)...and she said a supervisor would call me later today.

15 minutes later I decided to check HBO-HD on both channels, and they're working! Yay!


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

CA lottery is 47M this week. Consider buying some tickets 
http://www.calottery.com/default.htm


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## jonman21 (Dec 19, 2006)

sfhub said:


> CA lottery is 47M this week. Consider buying some tickets
> http://www.calottery.com/default.htm


Hahaha! Maybe I will...


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

Called a third time, just scheduled a truck roll for tomorrow, they are to bring two cards.

Shoulda just done that the first time.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Hopefully they won't bring M-cards


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## baked (Aug 11, 2002)

I lost my premium channels on Thursday and had a truck roll scheduled for Sunday, however, after being directed to this thread, I decided to call Comcast and supply them my Data ID's for each cable card.

I had upgraded the drive on my S3 which meant new Data IDs were were generated for each card. 

I just got off the phone with Comcast after supplying them the new Data ID's for both cable cards - that fixed the problem IMMEDIATELY after they 'hit' each card using the updated numbers.

All my premium/premium HD channels are working again and I canceled the truck roll that Comcast had scheduled. I would assume that for most people this issue can be fixed over the phone.


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## Innerloop (Sep 10, 2000)

It seems like a key to getting this to work is to have NEW data pushed to the cards, they don't seem to respond to repeats of old data. 

One person got it working because they changed hard-drives. Another person had it work because the swapped the cards into different slots. 

Very odd. Why else would the cards seemingly ignore all the signals sent to them?


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

baked said:


> I had upgraded the drive on my S3 which meant new Data IDs were were generated for each card.


To clarify for others Data field regeneration happens only under certain conditions, like upgrading a drive using a different image, initiating clear&delete everything, or swapping CC1/2. If you upgrade using your own image, the Data field shouldn't be regenerated.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Innerloop said:


> It seems like a key to getting this to work is to have NEW data pushed to the cards, they don't seem to respond to repeats of old data.
> 
> One person got it working because they changed hard-drives. Another person had it work because the swapped the cards into different slots.
> 
> Very odd. Why else would the cards seemingly ignore all the signals sent to them?


I don't think there is enough evidence to come to the conclusion the cards are the problem. It could be a backend problem in some cases. It could be CSR error in other cases. It could also be the card.

According to the Motorola documentation, the DAC and CPMS systems are separate and each keeps a copy of the host/data information, which need to be kept in sync. It could be something going on there.

Lots of possibilities, including the card, but I don't think anything we've read so far points directly to one component.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

They just hit my cards, with no effect. The CSR said that their supervisor can send a different signal, and said they are escalating that, if no go, then I'll wait for my truck roll tomorrow.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

sfhub said:


> I don't think there is enough evidence to come to the conclusion the cards are the problem. It could be a backend problem in some cases. It could be CSR error in other cases. It could also be the card.
> 
> According to the Motorola documentation, the DAC and CPMS systems are separate and each keeps a copy of the host/data information, which need to be kept in sync. It could be something going on there.
> 
> Lots of possibilities, including the card, but I don't think anything we've read so far points directly to one component.


I agree, from what I've read, it's an absolute necessity that the cards are "mated" to the particular headend. I'd imagine in many cases the cards are delivered from the main depot and are never mated/programmed for the local plant before they are put in the field.


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## TBoyd (Apr 9, 2000)

Just finished the 5th call to Comcast. Everything from providing the data and host data (multiple times) down to finally realizing that it didn't match what was on my account to them lying to me that there is no such thing as "initializing" cards remotely (they DID this to my cards months ago to solve a glitch when initially installed). --- They pushed and pushed for a truck roll and I resisted time and time again as they could never tell me what the truck tech might do to solve the problem. (I'm never taking time off a weekday to wait for Comcast again!) 

I finally got an honest guy and he said that he could make an init request through his tech backup team but if not successful in :30 then we would have to roll a truck, but the only reason would be to replace the cards as these would never really function fully if init fails. That all rings true to me, FINALLY! 

So, if the init fails I'll have them roll a truck for next weekend or the following one and just get a credit for my premimum service for those weeks. After all, it's only TV, right? ;<) 

Tim


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

CosmoGeek said:


> On the conditional access screen, it says "Connected: no". It is supposed to say yes.


That's a problem, but unrelated to copy protection.  In this case, they need to send the initialization hit. They've basically told your card turn turn off (they've "disconnected" it from the system). Again, something they should be able to fix via a phone call. You should see the 161-4 error when they fix this.


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

It seems to me that Comcast basically has a systems problem relating to cable cards. They require two minimum income people to communicate correctly 72 characters of data and then require coordination of that data in two locations as well as sending it to the cards. Small wonder this approach often fails. In my case, I was "hit" five times (during three phone calls and a truck roll) on the original cards which had worked for seven months without enabling the premium channels, had a truck roll in which new cards were tried but failed to enable, and then had the original cards reinserted and they they ended up working fine the first time enabled. The whole process took eight hours of my time as well as having my premium channels out for three days. The cards themselves were apparently fine all along.

To fix this problem, it seems they should develop a two way communication with the cards so that all data could be read automatically and verified. All the "truck roll" or customer would have to do is identify the cards inserted, and that id could be verified automatically as part of the enabling process. Until they get their systems act together, lots of people are going to continue to experience cable card hell and Comcast as well as TiVo will further damage their reputations as well as waste a lot of resources.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

retired_guy said:


> To fix this problem, it seems they should develop a two way communication with the cards so that all data could be read automatically and verified. All the "truck roll" or customer would have to do is identify the cards inserted, and that id could be verified automatically as part of the enabling process. Until they get their systems act together, lots of people are going to continue to experience cable card hell and Comcast as well as TiVo will further damage their reputations as well as waste a lot of resources.


The CableCARDs already do support the 2-way system you suggest. It is TiVo S3 that does not support 2-way. If TiVo S3 had 2-way system with upstream connectivity to the head-end, the CableCARD could communicate this information back to Comcast automatically. That is not to say everything will be perfect, but it will at least eliminate a large class of errors and manual entry problems.

There are reasons why TiVo S3 isn't a 2-way system, but that discussion is too much for this thread.


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

sfhub said:


> The CableCARDs already do support the 2-way system you suggest. It is TiVo S3 that does not support 2-way. If TiVo S3 had 2-way system with upstream connectivity to the head-end, the CableCARD could communicate this information back to Comcast automatically. That is not to say everything will be perfect, but it will at least eliminate a large class of errors and manual entry problems.
> 
> There are reasons why TiVo S3 isn't a 2-way system, but that discussion is too much for this thread.


Granted that the cards themselves are capable of working 2-way, but the major requirement would be for Comcast themselves to support cards working in that mode via their cable connection. Perhaps their systems were "designed" to work with TV installed cable cards where appropriate two way communication in all of the many brands and types of TVs (and other cable card devices) would have been difficult to implement. Maybe when Comcast is forced to support cable cards in their own boxes, they'll define standardized interfaces (this really should be an industry, not a Comcast standard) so that future TiVos can support cable cards in a cleaner and more error free fashion.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

retired_guy said:


> Maybe when Comcast is forced to support cable cards in their own boxes, they'll define standardized interfaces (this really should be an industry, not a Comcast standard) so that future TiVos can support cable cards in a cleaner and more error free fashion.


You misunderstand, it is a CableCARD standard, not a "Comcast" standard.

Comcast will be forced to to use CableCARDs in their STBs July of this year. That is all they were talking about in my local office. I'm sure that is a big reason Motorola stopped shipping S-cards and is only doing M-cards now.


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## Innerloop (Sep 10, 2000)

Innerloop said:


> It seems like a key to getting this to work is to have NEW data pushed to the cards, they don't seem to respond to repeats of old data.
> 
> One person got it working because they changed hard-drives. Another person had it work because the swapped the cards into different slots.
> 
> Very odd. Why else would the cards seemingly ignore all the signals sent to them?


Success! So after a long call this AM around 10, I gave up and went to work. When I came back at 8pm, lo and behold, one of my cards was working. The other one was unchanged.

Very odd. So I figured I'd roll the dice and call up and see if I could get the second card on-board. I theorized that perhaps the reason one card got hit and the other one did not was because one card may have been "stuck" on the black cable-card error screen and effectively "off-line". Well, its a theory, anway.

So  I call up and this time I decide to just leave the bad card on 702 instead of jumping back and forth to 730 constantly to see if it worked. So I leave it on 702, give her the numbers, and hope for the best. After she said she hit the card, I went to the setup screen and the card said it was Authorized!

So who knows. Maybe Comcast fixed something on their end so signals started getting through, or maybe I just got lucky. But now both are working great and I hope this whole thing is behind me.

Another theory I had was that their system chokes trying to hit two cards at once. I know when I did my initial setup, everyone said to do one card at a time. Maybe the same golden rule applies.

So anyone desperate enough to try anything:

1) Call Comcast about just one card at a time.
2) Leave the card tuned to a non-encryped channel so you know its processing the stream
3) Cross your fingers


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

Innerloop said:


> Another theory I had was that their system chokes trying to hit two cards at once. I know when I did my initial setup, everyone said to do one card at a time. Maybe the same golden rule applies.


It's not the system that chokes. It dosn't care if it's doing one card or twenty. As far as the system is concerned, it's dealing with two separate cable box equivalents. So, if they can activate two cable boxes at the same time, they can activate two cards.

What can choke, though, is the humans. Three or 4 sets of similar long numbers, that have to all be correct, and associated with the right group. Much more prone to human error than system error.



Innerloop said:


> 1) Call Comcast about just one card at a time.
> 2) Leave the card tuned to a non-encryped channel so you know its processing the stream
> 3) Cross your fingers


I left mine tuned to HBO when they sent the last hit. The video just started as soon as it got the hit. I had initially called about all 4 cards, and like you, had to go to work. When I got home, they got 3 of the cards working, but I had to call again for the 4th.


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## jeffsinsfo (Oct 16, 2005)

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that both my cards continue to work. After finding this thread I discovered that Card 1 has "MISSING PROGRAM REKEY" on the Conditional Access Screen, but I scrolled through ALL of the channels I'm supposed to get and all of them came in. (I don't subscribe to any premium movie channels but do have one of the digital packages.) I would call Comcast just to get the status fixed so it says "Subscribed" but I'm concerned that a phone call to them will only screw things up for a while. I had such an ordeal getting Comcast to properly install my cards in the first place that I'm just going to wait and keep hoping that the "Missing Program Rekey" status doesn't screw up my reception at some point.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

jeffsinsfo said:


> I'm keeping my fingers crossed that both my cards continue to work. After finding this thread I discovered that Card 1 has "MISSING PROGRAM REKEY" on the Conditional Access Screen, but I scrolled through ALL of the channels I'm supposed to get and all of them came in. (I don't subscribe to any premium movie channels but do have one of the digital packages.) I would call Comcast just to get the status fixed so it says "Subscribed" but I'm concerned that a phone call to them will only screw things up for a while. I had such an ordeal getting Comcast to properly install my cards in the first place that I'm just going to wait and keep hoping that the "Missing Program Rekey" status doesn't screw up my reception at some point.


I think as long as it says "Host Validation: Valid 00" and it says "Connected: yes", you should be fine. My cards will sometimes say MISSING_PROGRAM_REKEY, but when I tune to an encrypted (but not copy protected) channel like INHD/MOJO, it changes to Auth: SUBSCRIBED and CA enable: possible.


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

sfhub said:


> You misunderstand, it is a CableCARD standard, not a "Comcast" standard.
> 
> Comcast will be forced to to use CableCARDs in their STBs July of this year. That is all they were talking about in my local office. I'm sure that is a big reason Motorola stopped shipping S-cards and is only doing M-cards now.


If I understand your posts correctly, the standards exist for communication between the cable cards and back end systems such that enabling could be done without manual intervention should TiVo support such a dialogue, other than perhaps manual identification of the cards to be enabled and authentication of the request to start the process. And that the reason this isn't done is that the Series3 itself doesn't support this standard protocol "for reasons too complex to discuss here". But can Comcast's back end systems today support such a dialogue, or are there serious legacy issues which prevent it for the time being? If Comcast does support such a dialogue, then the ball would seem to be in TiVo's court to clean up this cable card mess.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

retired_guy said:


> But can Comcast's back end systems today support such a dialogue, or are there serious legacy issues which prevent it for the time being? If Comcast does support such a dialogue, then the ball would seem to be in TiVo's court to clean up this cable card mess.


My guess is one of the upgrades we are seeing also includes this functionality. I don't know which version Comcast in our area is using. Motorola is supposed to have included the functionality DAC 3.1.1. Look for "2-way CableCARD auto-pairing" on page 20.

http://broadband.motorola.com/noflash/Prep_OCAP_Seminar_Motorola_SCTE_7_7_2006.pdf

We'll know soon enough. I just find it hard to believe Comcast would tolerate needing to call in all this information for their own boxes come July.

I think from a hardware standpoint, it is TiVo's problem that their device cannot support auto-pairing because it is a unidirectional device. However I don't think that is really TiVo's fault because of the politics of CableCARD, M-stream, CableCARD2.0, OCAP, downloadable CA, and CableLabs (that is why I said it was too complex to discuss in this thread)


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

So there is hope that "auto-pairing" will occur eventually, maybe on Comcast boxes first and ultimately on a new generation TiVo. It seems, however, that Comcast could stock DVRs with the pairing already done "in house" and hence largely get around the problem for their own boxes. Even if their system remainded with manual data entry, someone doing it all day, going from box to box, could do it far better than today's method where the "truck roll" guys many times are doing it for the first time, or have not done it for a long enough time to forget the process.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

retired_guy said:


> So there is hope that "auto-pairing" will occur eventually, maybe on Comcast boxes first and ultimately on a new generation TiVo. It seems, however, that Comcast could stock DVRs with the pairing already done "in house" and hence largely get around the problem for their own boxes. Even if their system remainded with manual data entry, someone doing it all day, going from box to box, could do it far better than today's method where the "truck roll" guys many times are doing it for the first time, or have not done it for a long enough time to forget the process.


That would definitely help for the initial install. The problem we are seeing today with S3s/CableCARDs is the result of some human error, and it would still require calling it in unless auto-pairing was supported.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

retired_guy said:


> If I understand your posts correctly, the standards exist for communication between the cable cards and back end systems


I'm not aware of any such standard.

As I understand things, there is the draft standard for cable card 2 hardware which would enable 2 way communication, but they're arguing over the software aspects and its not been adopted or deployed yet, so it couldn't be used. It also may never be adopted as the cable companies are trying to stall it by saying they've got a better idea and it'll only a take a year to impliment so they may as well forget CC2 and go to their new idea (thus further delaying any such implimentation).


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

This thread prompted me to check the status of my cable cards, while tuned to HBO. I noticed that the CCI (copy protection status) byte was 0x02, I'd never seen it set to anything other than 0 before, I was wondering if this was new with the change.

After a little panic thinking that 2 meant a recording couldn't be kept, I remembered that the bytes mean:

0: Copy freely
1: No more copying (is a copy of a CCI:2 program)
2: Copy once. (TiVo's copy counts as the 1 copy)
3: Copying prohibited (TiVo can only keep it 90min)

Supposedly CCI:3 is only used for PPV, tuning to a PPV channel (without buying) I see a CCI byte of 3. (So even if I could get PPV on the TiVo, it wouldn't be worth it.)


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

Truck roll worked, they brought out two new cards, did them the right way, pop one in, call in the serial number (but not the cable card ID), then the host ID, then the data ID, wait for the 161-4 error, then Test channel, then repeat on the second card. My guess is that they know the cable card ID from the serial number. My Tivo rebooted once after going to Test Channel after the 1st card was in, but it worked out fine.

They guy mentioned that he and his buddy in the central office noticed that data ID does not always update. They would enter it, but if they checked later, the info they entered is not retained. Some times they had to do it 3 times. Sounds like there's some bug in Comcast's system.

He also mentioned that this recent problem not only hit all the CC's, but also the recent DVR boxes they deployed, and they had to swap out the boxes. That was interesting to know.

Also, one of my new cards says "Valid 05", the other says "Valid 01" under Host Validation in Conditional Access screen. The 1st card is Moto 04.21 firmware. The second card is Moto 04.05 firmware. The 04.05 card does not have the following lines:
Encryption: DES
Connected:yes, EnabledByCP: yes
CA enable: possible

and instead of
Auth: SUBSCRIBED
it says
State: Subscribed

in the Conditional Access screen.

And in the Pairing screen, it does not say
"The CableCARD considers the HOST to have only one-way RF capability"


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## ampm99 (Feb 17, 2003)

Had a Saturday 8-12 apptmnt at 11:45am called for status waited 1 hour on phone for Comcast to tell me that it wasn't a missed apptmnt they had just sent the wrong tech. I needed a network tech. I said too bad, your fault. I'll take a $20.00 credit AND I want the Tech today. More waiting on phone ( 5 min) and csr says the right Tech will skip his lunch to come to my house. I refrain from saying what I think since she gave me the credit. Tech arrives and spends one hour saying no one likes these TIVO with CC because the tech in the field can't control what goes on. Only the central office can make a fix. I point out that the FCC likes cable cards and that's all that matters. Tech finds incorrect host and Data id's centrally. We check and recheck 4 sets of numbers very carefully and he supposedly makes sure the update and signal hit takes. It appears to take on two Series3s but looks can be deceiving. 

Saturday Night - one card is not paired correctly , three are paired . CSR tries to take host data ids and hit card. She says wait 30 minutes and all will be fixed. I go to bed. 
Sunday Morning - NOT fixed CSR schedules another tech to roll Tuesday. I tell them to be sure to bring new cable cards but I doubt they will. 

I can't tell if I just didn't check the card carefully ( Card 1 test channels) or it failed again after they left. I bet Comcast thinks this problem is 75% fixed! No scratch that, Comcast has not evidenced an ability to think.


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## wierdo (Apr 7, 2002)

btwyx said:


> This thread prompted me to check the status of my cable cards, while tuned to HBO. I noticed that the CCI (copy protection status) byte was 0x02, I'd never seen it set to anything other than 0 before, I was wondering if this was new with the change.
> 
> After a little panic thinking that 2 meant a recording couldn't be kept, I remembered that the bytes mean:
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure that TiVo's copy doesn't count as a copy when the flag is set to 0x02. Someone with a compliant DVHS recorder and a cable box with Firewire could settle this, but I was under the impression that a 0x02 flagged show can indeed be copied from a cable DVR to DVHS, but that is the only allowed copy.

In TiVo-land, if MRV was enabled, a 0x02 flagged show could be transferred from one DVR to another, but that would be the only allowed copy.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

btwyx said:


> 1: No more copying (is a copy of a CCI:2 program)
> 2: Copy once. (TiVo's copy counts as the 1 copy)


CCI=0x01 and 0x02 are *not* the same.

0x02 means copy one-gen. That means you can make as many copies as you want of the original (using approved methods), however you are not allowed to make a copy of a copy. You basically always have to go back to the original recording to make a copy from. This would mesh reasonably well with MRV.

0x01 means no more copies period.

http://customersupport.tivo.com/LaunchContent.aspx?CID=ca3a26cb-6823-4fc3-b67f-17da8524ecc6


> *Copy Protection Policies for Series3 HD*
> 
> The TiVo Series3 HD Digital Media Recorder is a compliant Digital Cable Receiver (DCR) device which uses CableCARD to receive high quality digital cable content in its native form. Since the Series3 HD is a DCR device, in addition to the Macrovision rules for analog content, it must also comply with the content protection policies for Digital Cable content. These copy protection rules vary by content type, and in general, premium and pay channels will have more restrictive rules. These digital copy protection rules include:
> 
> ...


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## CosmoGeek (Feb 26, 2007)

After four rounds with a CSR and two truck rolls, still no Joy. My CC2 was crippled by something the first CSR did when they were trying to get my HBO channels back. For each truck roll I told them to bring a cable card. Neither did but both truck techs said my cable card needed to be replaced. So now I have a third truck roll scheduled for Wednesday. Anybody want to wager that they forget to bring a CC?


Comcast sucks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A complete demonstration of incompetence.


BTW, did I say Comcast sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## schoflyer (Apr 17, 2007)

I'm new here...
Mill Valley, Weaknees Series 3.
Former D*Tivo Series 2.

Well the install went down without a hitch but I lost channels later in the day.
I got a hit sent and that fixed it.
Then I left for 2 weeks and lost alot of 121 DiscKids, 81 Versus, etc channels with 0.00 recordings while I was gone. 

So I called for a truck and repeating guided setup didn't seem to solve things anymore.

Before the guy showed up on Sat, I got a call form someone sayin gto check my TV because they had domne some stuff. Well my channels were back even though they were doinf the copy protection stuff.

Just had one card showing not subscribed but everything worked. I thought the truck should still come. By the next morning both cards were showing subscribed. The guy who showed up looked and called and everything seemed OK.

Seems to be great right now.

Cheers,

Shco


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

schoflyer said:


> Just had one card showing not subscribed but everything worked. I thought the truck should still come. By the next morning both cards were showing subscribed. The guy who showed up looked and called and everything seemed OK.


Were you checking this when the card was tuned to a specific digital cable channel? This field is only valid for the last digital cable channel the S3 has asked that cablecard to decrypt.


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## schoflyer (Apr 17, 2007)

Roderigo said:


> Were you checking this when the card was tuned to a specific digital cable channel? This field is only valid for the last digital cable channel the S3 has asked that cablecard to decrypt.


OK. File that away. SO I should look at the channels I was having trouble with. Then look if trouble starts again and see what changes. Right?


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## Kenji (Jun 29, 2003)

Chapter 2: The Service Call

In Chapter 1, I had just noticed that none of my premium channels (e.g., HBO, Encore) were functional since Comcast had switched on their copy protection feature last Thursday. A call to Comcast had not fixed the problem, so I scheduled a service call.

When the Comcast technician arrived today, we found that all of my premium channels had been magically restored sometime in the past few days, with the exception of the high-definition version of HBO. I couldn't say exactly when the channels had been restored since I seldom view Encore or the non-HD versions of HBO.

The tech called the Comcast central office and gave them the information for my CableCARDs. The central office tried to re-initialize the cards, but that had no effect. Comcast transferred the tech to someone else, who told him that there seems to be a host-side issue with both HBO-HD and Starz (i.e., that the problem is on the Comcast side, not in my TiVo box) and that they are trying to fix it.

So, that's the latest update. Without touching my S3, Comcast was able to restore all of my premium channels except HBO-HD. I'd be curious as to whether that's consistent with anyone else's experience.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

Kenji said:


> Chapter 2: The Service Call
> 
> In Chapter 1, I had just noticed that none of my premium channels (e.g., HBO, Encore) were functional since Comcast had switched on their copy protection feature last Thursday. A call to Comcast had not fixed the problem, so I scheduled a service call.
> 
> ...


Looking at my status in Milpitas, they seem to have turned off CCI on all of the premium channels except Starz and HBO-HD. That is why the other channels have magically re-appeared. The Host Validation is still broken on your card, but with CCI=0, that doesn't matter. But if they ever turn it back on (CCI=2), they will be gone again. I am awaiting a service call today


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## spinlock (Oct 3, 2006)

SF Bay Area, Premium channels out since 4/19, 2 service call still didnt resolve.

My Host Validation is "unkown 00", Copyright Protection Key is "disabled" which seems odd.

Most premium channels just black now(used to get the CableCard Status screen), but 551(HBO-Pacific Feed) is interesting, it shows some asian people in a roundtable discussing something, there is no audio, but there is subtitles in chinese!!!

I had a supervisor, Tim, on the phone last night and he was baffled.

Tim said he would call me back tonight.


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

Hello all,

Just wanted to give you an update. My cubemate just got off the phone with Comcast and found what appears to be the cause of the vast majority of the issues in this thread. It looks like Comcast has two entries for CableCARDs but they don't necessarily align with slots 1 & 2 on the S3. In many cases, they appear to have been updating the CableCARD and Host ID info for the wrong CableCARD s/n. 

I expect that this information will be passed along quickly to the Comcast reps but it would probably move things along faster if you had that information directly.


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## ampm99 (Feb 17, 2003)

Tech scheduled for today but pairing seems to have magically occurred.
I thought about letting him in but the odds of Comcast breaking everything they touch are high. I guess I just won't answer the door


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

CharlesH said:


> Looking at my status in Milpitas, they seem to have turned off CCI on all of the premium channels except Starz and HBO-HD. That is why the other channels have magically re-appeared. The Host Validation is still broken on your card, but with CCI=0, that doesn't matter. But if they ever turn it back on (CCI=2), they will be gone again. I am awaiting a service call today


Comcast tech came out (not a contractor), we did a hot swap of card 2, he called in the #s, and it properly paired and got "Host Validation=Valid" within a minute. And card 1 is still "Valid". I guess the issue that TivoJerry mentioned percolated down to the right people, at least for me. :up: :up:

Note that what is important to look at is the "Host Validation" field in the Conditional Access screen. If it says "Unknown" (or anything other than "Valid" with some number), you won't be able to pick up copy-protected (CCI=2) shows.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

TiVoJerry said:


> Just wanted to give you an update. My cubemate just got off the phone with Comcast and found what appears to be the cause of the vast majority of the issues in this thread. It looks like Comcast has two entries for CableCARDs but they don't necessarily align with slots 1 & 2 on the S3. In many cases, they appear to have been updating the CableCARD and Host ID info for the wrong CableCARD s/n.


 Thanks, Jerry :up:


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## schoflyer (Apr 17, 2007)

CharlesH said:


> Note that what is important to look at is the "Host Validation" field in the Conditional Access screen. If it says "Unknown" (or anything other than "Valid" with some number), you won't be able to pick up copy-protected (CCI=2) shows.


Well I don't have any of the premiums so I'm sure if I am affected by this. I have seen Host Validation Unknown 00 (I think it was 00).

Should I try and get this resolved?


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## weez68 (Apr 24, 2007)

I am in Santa Clara and have been having the same problems since last week.
The Comcast tech was just here and took 3 hours to get me back working.
I found out they had so many problems that they have turned copy protection off until they can figure out how to do it correctly.


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## Kenji (Jun 29, 2003)

CharlesH said:


> Looking at my status in Milpitas, they seem to have turned off CCI on all of the premium channels except Starz and HBO-HD. That is why the other channels have magically re-appeared. The Host Validation is still broken on your card, but with CCI=0, that doesn't matter. But if they ever turn it back on (CCI=2), they will be gone again.


Makes sense. Thanks for the reply.


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## jbrasure (Jan 1, 2007)

This is exactly what happened to me too. Same channels and everything.



Kenji said:


> Chapter 2: The Service Call
> 
> In Chapter 1, I had just noticed that none of my premium channels (e.g., HBO, Encore) were functional since Comcast had switched on their copy protection feature last Thursday. A call to Comcast had not fixed the problem, so I scheduled a service call.
> 
> ...


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## Kenji (Jun 29, 2003)

Chapter 3: Problems Fixed?

In Chapter 2, all of my premium channels had been re-enabled with the exception of HBO-HD.

When I turned on my TV just now, I tuned my S3 to HBO-HD just for the heck of it, and what should I see, but Jessica Simpson in The Dukes Of Hazzard. So, while the content may not (or may, depending on your perspective) be all that great, all of my premium channels have been re-enabled without any real effort on my part.

Hopefully this is the end of my story, but with Comcast, there always seems to be another chapter in the works (grin). I hope that others are experiencing the same outcome as me.


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## JPShinn (Aug 24, 2004)

Came home tonight and everything seems to be working, all on its own . . .


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## CosmoGeek (Feb 26, 2007)

My problem just got worse. CC2 is still out for all encrypted digital channels on CC1. But now I just lost my Primium tier channels. I lost the Primium Tier a couple of months when some Comcast person was bumbling around. 

My third truck roll is tomorrow and they called to assure me that they were bringing two cable cards.


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

For those that say their problem has "mysteriously" been fixed - it sounds like Comcast just turned copy protection back off (i.e. they stopped doing the thing that broke it in the first place). 

My guess is they'll turn copy protection back on soon, but only after they train their their reps to be able to solve the problem in a reasonable timeframe (minutes, not hours or days).

So, if you CableCARDs still say "Host Validation: Unknown," I'd still harass them until they can get that fixed (such that you won't notice when they turn copy protection back on).


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## CosmoGeek (Feb 26, 2007)

Well my third truck roll happened this morning and guess what? He didn't bring any cable cards! He said their last lot of cards had been "recalled" because they were defective. Plus he couldn't call "Dispatch" because they were all in a meeting. On top of that, I had to listen to this guy rant for 15 minutes about the use of language including somebody calling his daughter a Ho. After a half hour he left without doing anything other than have me show him what my situation is. Shows you what they think my time is worth - nothing. 

Did somebody say Comcast sucks? 

Anybody have any suggestions about what I should ask for once I'm up and running again? A $100 wouldn't be enough and they wouldn't give it to me anyway. However, I don't feel that they sould be able to put me through this without doing more than just saying sorry.


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## jbrasure (Jan 1, 2007)

All of my missing channels came back today, except for Starz. I just called Comcast and downgraded my service so that I no longer have Starz and TMC. I never watched those channels anyway. Problem solved! (At least until they turn copy protection back on.)


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## mrmot (Aug 27, 2006)

Just to add a data point, I'm over in Belmont and haven't had any problems thus far. I can view and record all my HBO channels and HBOHD.

I think the key difference is that my cable cards were installed one month ago. In theory, they got the install correct and paired things up properly.

Both my cards read:

Auth: SUBSCRIBED
Host Validation: Valid 00

Anyway, hope you all get those problems sorted out...


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

I've had cablecard service for a little more than two months now, and both of them display valid Host Validation. I guess they started keeping track of host/data before my install. I'm in SF, btw.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Unfortunately as a result of the truck roll and 17 cable cards until they realized its primarily the process and the not the card being at fault. they screwed up my billing and are adding lots of ADO and cable card and HDTV fees.

Sigh back to CSR roulette to get this fixed. Its never easy.


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## CosmoGeek (Feb 26, 2007)

I'm finally back up and running. The fourth truck roll finally had a cable card. I was down for a week. So they really did manage to break my cable card by doing something at the other end. I was skeptical that a new card would solve the problem since I wasn't convinced that a CSR could break my card over the phone. My Host Validation also says Valid on both cards when tuned to HBO so I think I am good to go if they turn copy protection back on.


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## mrey (Apr 23, 2007)

TiVoJerry said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Just wanted to give you an update. My cubemate just got off the phone with Comcast and found what appears to be the cause of the vast majority of the issues in this thread. It looks like Comcast has two entries for CableCARDs but they don't necessarily align with slots 1 & 2 on the S3. In many cases, they appear to have been updating the CableCARD and Host ID info for the wrong CableCARD s/n.
> 
> I expect that this information will be passed along quickly to the Comcast reps but it would probably move things along faster if you had that information directly.


Can this fix be confirmed by anyone?

And if possible, can anyone suggest ways of explaining this fix to a technician or CSR?


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

mrey said:


> And if possible, can anyone suggest ways of explaining this fix to a technician or CSR?


The only way to force the issue is to aske them to double check the information PER card. So, say - "Can you check the information for the card with the serial number NGXXXX?" This will hopefully force them to realize the host and data need to be uniquely matched to the right card. That's how I finally got them to get things right last week.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

I'm in Cupertino and same issues. I gave up on Comcast and simply waited it out. It all seems to be working again. Thank goodness for these forums. At least I know I'm not alone....


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

You should check the validation status of your CableCARDs. Someone mentioned Comcast was having so much trouble they backed out the Copy Protection, however if your cards are not setup properly, when they turn it back on, you'll get the same problem.

How to check is earlier in this thread.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Well nuts. Only one of my four cards has the validation 00 and the rest say "Unknown". So I guess I have to deal with Comcast over this. 

Does anyone know the name of a Rep with Comcast or an extension number of someone who knows what they are doing in regard to this problem? The first time I called the guy was so clueless he scared me off.  

I plan to print out what Jerry said earlier. Is there anything else I can do to ease the pain of this process?


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

bareyb said:


> Well nuts. Only one of my four cards has the validation 00 and the rest say "Unknown". So I guess I have to deal with Comcast over this.


One other thing, make sure you tune each tuner/CableCARD to a channel the requires decryption, like 719 or 722.

The copy protection status is only valid for the last channel that particular CableCARD was tuned to.


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

sfhub said:


> One other thing, make sure you tune each tuner/CableCARD to a channel the requires decryption, like 719 or 722.
> 
> The copy protection status is only valid for the last channel that particular CableCARD was tuned to.


While that's true for most things on that screen, Host Validation isn't one of them. It will have a good value regardless of what channel you're on.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Well. I got three of the four cards showing "Valid" by calling and pulling cards etc. with the tech rep. The cards have the word "Valid" with 01, 05, and 02 after, so they all say Valid but they all have a different numbers associated with it. 

Looks like Comcast is going to have to send out a tech with some new Cable Cards on Thursday to try and get that last card working. It only took about a half an hour on the phone so I guess I got off easy. We'll see how much hell I have to endure to get that last one working.  

I'll report back Thursday.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

Just got a message on my S3 from Tivo, specifically mentioning that Comcast in the bay area is turning on copy protection, and we must check the Host Validation field in the Conditional Access menu. Tivo is on the ball on this, we'll see if Comcast is.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

yunlin12 said:


> Just got a message on my S3 from Tivo, specifically mentioning that Comcast in the bay area is turning on copy protection, and we must check the Host Validation field in the Conditional Access menu. Tivo is on the ball on this, we'll see if Comcast is.


Got the same message. One day after I finally got a "Valid" on all four of my cards. Comcast had to send out a truck to replace one of my cards yesterday after I'd gotten three out of four of them to work. Then the guy "accidentally" had them deactivate the wrong card so they unhooked one that had been working... 

Then when they spent half an hour getting the one that had already worked, to work AGAIN they installed the new card. I made damn sure they gave the gal on the other end the correct numbers and they did and yet... No joy.

He got off the phone and was about to leave saying that it would update in a few minutes. Well I made him wait and I'm glad I did. Don't ever let them leave until you are SURE that you have the "valid" in your card info. Anyway, long story short, they called back, got a different gal on the speaker phone. I heard her repeat back the Host and Data numbers and they were WRONG! 

Jeebus. Somehow the gal ON THE OTHER END got it wrong! Then he gave her the right numbers this time I made the gal repeat it back twice. ONce again the guy says it's gonna be fine and wants to leave. I tell him to wait until we see the blue screen and we can try again. He agrees to stay so I gave him a soda and we waited... Then finally we got the blue screen and I checked the card and FINALLY we have the "Valid" on all four cards!

The next morning I get the message from Comcast that they are planning to turn on the copy protection again. So just in the nick of time. I highly suggest that you call and get this stuff sorted out before they flip the switch. It's going to anarchy once everyone loses all their premiums again and it might be difficult to get an appt. The time to do it is now. Before the onslaught.


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## subat0mic (Jan 7, 2007)

I got the message today (or at least, I noticed it in my inbox)
and I have Host Validation: unknown on both cards

channel 730 and 734 both work (HBO and stars) as well as 719 and 722... 
i'm guessing they haven't flipped the switch yet.

so... people who have had success with this, tell me this...
1.) what do I tell comcast on the phone so that they "get it" and fix my stuff?
2.) what's the best number to call, and who to ask for? (i.e. supervisor, install tech, cablecard guru, etc... ) their normal support people really suck last i called them (it took 3 visits to get the cards working.


(note: i haven't changed cards or hard drive since they got it all working. 
my tivo has been powered off then on a couple times when it has locked up browsing the info screen for a recorded show, but that wouldn't matter would it?)


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## cschamp (Sep 21, 2006)

subat0mic said:


> I got the message today (or at least, I noticed it in my inbox)
> and I have Host Validation: unknown on both cards
> 
> channel 730 and 734 both work (HBO and stars) as well as 719 and 722...
> i'm guessing they haven't flipped the switch yet.


I just noticed the message yesterday myself. Spent an hour on the phone with Comcast CS this morning. My cards still don't show that Copy Protection is set up for them properly. They're sending tech out Sunday 9-11:00 to try to fix it. Oh, joy.

While on the phone, the CSR said that when Copy Protection is working, it means that some, but not all, premium content will not record and can only be watched live. Maybe this explains why I, like you, can still receive HBO HD even without the proper "pairing" of our CableCards. It may only be an issue when a CP-flagged piece of content comes down the wire, in which case it's that piece that you won't be able to watch (and from now on will never be able to record).

The joys of DRM and the MPAA attorneys.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

The best thing to do is call Comcast and see if they can make sure the info is correct for each card's serial number. You will probably have to pull each card one at a time and give them the serial numbers. You need to know how to get into the proper info screens on your TiVo to get to the "Pairing Info". It is explained in the message you got today on your TiVo. You might get lucky and be able to do it over the phone. I got three out of four cards on the phone. Comcast does seem to be aware of this problem and are trying to fix it. Everyone I talked to knew what I was talking about.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

cschamp said:


> Maybe this explains why I, like you, can still receive HBO HD even without the proper "pairing" of our CableCards. It may only be an issue when a CP-flagged piece of content comes down the wire, in which case it's that piece that you won't be able to watch (and from now on will never be able to record).


Look at the diagnostic page when tuned to HBO-HD.

If CCI is 0x02 and you still get HBO-HD then it is because they haven't turned on CPMS yet. 0x02 means you can record it, but there are copy restrictions.

If CCI is 0x03 then you'll only be able to watch it in a livetv buffer and won't be able to record it. This is normally used for PPV stuff (which you can't order direct from S3, but can order over the phone)


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## subat0mic (Jan 7, 2007)

bareyb said:


> You will probably have to pull each card one at a time and give them the serial numbers.


isn't the serial number embedded in the CableCardUnit number on the pairing screen? or in the address on the same screen (those two numbers are very similar)...

would like to avoid pulling it.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Comcast doesn't use that number. They apparently have a database that associates NGxxx #s with the CableCARD id #s they need.

I don't believe pulling the card and putting it back will result in new Data field regeneration.

If you want to be sure, turn off your unit, pull each card and write down the NGxxx #s, then put the cards back in the same slots and turn on your unit.


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

sfhub said:


> Comcast doesn't use that number. They apparently have a database that associates NGxxx #s with the CableCARD id #s they need.
> 
> I don't believe pulling the card and putting it back will result in new Data field regeneration.
> 
> If you want to be sure, turn off your unit, pull each card and write down the NGxxx #s, then put the cards back in the same slots and turn on your unit.


Given how touchy these CableCards are, I don't want to touch them at all after they're set up and running.

I got the message from TiVo. CC#1 says "Host Authorization: Valid", but CC#2 says "Host Authorization: Unknown." So I get to join the rest of you in Comcast CableCard Hell. Misery loves company!


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

mportuesi said:


> Given how touchy these CableCards are, I don't want to touch them at all after they're set up and running.
> 
> I got the message from TiVo. CC#1 says "Host Authorization: Valid", but CC#2 says "Host Authorization: Unknown." So I get to join the rest of you in Comcast CableCard Hell. Misery loves company!


I've had to pull mine several times through all this and it never hurt the ones that were working. As for your last card that isn't working, all you might have to do is call Comcast with the serial no. and feed them the pairing info. You might get lucky and get a "Valid" without having to endure a truck roll. Good luck.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Not sure if this has been asked before, but my cards all say Valid now but they are followed with a number on each one. 

Card One: Valid 00
Card Two: Valid 09
Card three: Valid 05
Card four: Valid 02

Is this normal? Are you guys getting random numbers after each Valid message?


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

I have 2 cards, they are:

Valid 05 (Moto firmware 4.21)
Valid 01 (Moto firmware 4.05)

I'm on Digital Silver if that has anything to do with it.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

sfhub said:


> Comcast doesn't use that number. They apparently have a database that associates NGxxx #s with the CableCARD id #s they need.
> 
> I don't believe pulling the card and putting it back will result in new Data field regeneration.
> 
> If you want to be sure, turn off your unit, pull each card and write down the NGxxx #s, then put the cards back in the same slots and turn on your unit.


I recommend this as well.

Comcast don't use Cable Card ID to track their cards, instead they use the serial number NGXXX physically printed on the card.

The card 1 and card 2 on their system also don't necessarily match slot 1 and slot 2 on the S3.

The most complete thing to do is to give them the host ID and data ID for each cable card serial number.

Pulling the cable card and poping them back in (in the same slot) will not change any of the ID's, I've done it at least 3-4 times.


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

sfhub said:


> Look at the diagnostic page when tuned to HBO-HD.
> 
> If CCI is 0x02 and you still get HBO-HD then it is because they haven't turned on CPMS yet. 0x02 means you can record it, but there are copy restrictions.
> 
> If CCI is 0x03 then you'll only be able to watch it in a livetv buffer and won't be able to record it. This is normally used for PPV stuff (which you can't order direct from S3, but can order over the phone)


This isn't true. If the CCI is anything other than 0, then they've turned on Copy Protection, and you cards have to be paired. Full Stop.

There's no way for them to configure things such that you can see a channel with CCI=0x02, and not have your cards paired.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Roderigo said:


> This isn't true. If the CCI is anything other than 0, then they've turned on Copy Protection, and you cards have to be paired. Full Stop.
> 
> There's no way for them to configure things such that you can see a channel with CCI=0x02, and not have your cards paired.


I could have sworn I've seen CCI non-zero even before they turned on CPMS, but that might have been the errant mapping of BF to CCI=0x02 that the Motorola STBs tend to do.


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## TBoyd (Apr 9, 2000)

I've talked to Comcast reps on this cablecard 'host validation' issue 11 times and additionally they rolled a truck to replace both my cablecards in my S3. This is relative to Comcast in the S.F. Bay Area, specifically near San Jose. 

Tonight, for the first time the rep, a newbie, as she was reading off a cheat sheet, asked me for the Unit Address as well as the cable card(tm), the host number and the data number for both cards. She passed this info to her 'technical lead' to re-pair the cards and promised to have him call back in 20 minutes to see if the paring "took" and see if my absent Starz channels were back on. 

In a few minutes I looked at both cards and they said:
Host Validation: Valid (then a number) 

This was different than the:
Host Validation: Unknown

that I'd had before. Checking Starz channels, I found that they all were working. 

When the 'technical lead' called back (as promised) we discussed what the issue was. Basically he said that ONE card didn't have the proper 'Unit Address' in the database. He said that missing ONE address will affect both cards. Why? Don't know; mystery of life. 

I asked him if the CCI: line at 0x00 was OK. He said yea. 

My advice to anyone still having this issue is to call them back and make CERTAIN you give them the 'unit address' and not just the host and data numbers. 

Bon Chance, kids! 

Tim


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## ivyvine420 (Mar 14, 2007)

sfhub said:


> Comcast doesn't use that number. They apparently have a database that associates NGxxx #s with the CableCARD id #s they need.


That's weird, cause that is the # that the 2 different install techs called in when installing the cablecards for me (got one then had to get the other 2 days later, they had only brought one with them). And when I switched the cards from one S3 to another (first had broken OLED Display and was being sent back), this is the same # that I called in to them...

Of course, while my cards are currently paired for NON - Copy Protection, they are not yet Valid for the CPMS. Maybe this is part of why some aren't totally and properly paired up?


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

While there is nothing preventing them from using the CableCARD unit address and CableCARD serial #, from what I can tell, they normally are recorded and associated with the NGXXX # prior to sending the cards out.

The installer then calls in the NGXXX # (which has already been associated with the unit address and serial #) and then relays the customer specific info Host/Data that are specific to your S3 unit/installation.

I have my pink copy of the work order where the installer wrote down the NGXXX #s and my host/data information right before he called them in. He never mentioned the CableCARD unit address or serial # over their 2-way radio system so I know there must be some association on the back end keyed on the NGXXX #.

Of course if something went wrong and the association was incorrect, it doesn't hurt to give them the CableCARD unit address and serial # to double check everything is correct.


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

I mentioned earlier that CC#1 says "Host Authorization: Valid", but CC#2 says "Host Authorization: Unknown" on my S3.

I called Comcast this weekend to sort things out, and I have to say that it was a very easy experience to get it resolved. I think they've finally got the script out to their CSRs.

I pulled the CC from my Tivo beforehand and wrote down the card serial number. I told the CSR about the message I had received from Tivo, and that CC #1 says valid and CC #2 says unknown.

CSR asked me for the serial number on CC2, which I read off my notepad. Then he asked for the host ID and data ID from the cable card screen.

He said he would notify his supervisor, who would then hit the card. I was on hold for about five minutes.

He came back, said the hit was sent, and the card would take a few minutes to respond. I checked the card access screen right then, and CC#2 showed up valid. So I was able to confirm the fix right there on the phone with the CSR.

If you're still having problems with this, I'd suggest giving Comcast another call. They might have their act together now.


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## jboy (Sep 25, 2003)

I am finally getting a HD TV and want to hook it up to a Tivo unit. I assume I will need a Tivo 3. However, assuming I don't want to watch one channel and record another, can't I just hook up the Tivo 3 to the comcast box that has the card, etc. I guess I don't understand why I need to rent another card from comcast.

Thanks 

Jerry


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## TBoyd (Apr 9, 2000)

If you get an S3 you don't NEED a cable box any longer. The CARD can just go in the S3. 

You don't NEED two cards, but having two tuners to record conflicting TV schedules IS cool. 

Tim


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## mikesay98 (Aug 26, 2006)

Btw, how much do people pay for all these premium channels? I was told by Comcast it was like $15/month per premium channel!!


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## jeffsinsfo (Oct 16, 2005)

Unlike the Series 2, the Series 3 is not designed to record from a cable or satellite box. It also cannot control an external box. The Series 3 records from its own internal tuners only, tuners that can be fed signals from an antenna and/or cable. You don't need cable cards if you only want to be able to tune analog cable channels, but if you want any digital cable or premium channels you have to get two cable cards installed in the Series 3 in order for both tuners to be active and able to record.



jboy said:


> I am finally getting a HD TV and want to hook it up to a Tivo unit. I assume I will need a Tivo 3. However, assuming I don't want to watch one channel and record another, can't I just hook up the Tivo 3 to the comcast box that has the card, etc. I guess I don't understand why I need to rent another card from comcast.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jerry


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

mikesay98 said:


> Btw, how much do people pay for all these premium channels? I was told by Comcast it was like $15/month per premium channel!!


That's what I'm paying for HBO. That's one of the downsides of Comcast over DirecTV, D* charged $12 for the first premium, $11 for the second, $10 for the third etc. If D* actually supported HD and TiVos I wouldn't have switched.


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## ZildjianKX (Jun 11, 2004)

Sorry if this isn't really on topic, but all of you are Comcast bay area TiVo Series 3 users.

Are you being charged an additional outlet fee for using a TiVo Series 3 with 2 cable cards?

I just saw this on my online bill:

DIGITAL EQUIP & REMOTE, 05/05 TO 05/26 $ 2.83
DIGITAL ADDL OUTLET 05/05 TO 05/26 $ 4.95

I presume the top one is for the 2nd cable card (first one is free, right? $2.50 for the 2nd).

Then the 2nd charge is the additional outlet fee? I don't have a cable box or anything else, just the two cable cards.


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## JimR (Jan 9, 2002)

ZildjianKX said:


> DIGITAL EQUIP & REMOTE, 05/05 TO 05/26 $ 2.83
> DIGITAL ADDL OUTLET 05/05 TO 05/26 $ 4.95
> 
> I presume the top one is for the 2nd cable card (first one is free, right? $2.50 for the 2nd).
> ...


You should be able to argue to be properly charged only for a second cable card. The first one is free. The second card (in a Tivo) is $1.50 a month (in Redwood City).

The ADDL OUTLET fee is bogus, as the installer knew he installed both cards in a Tivo, and the back-end guys apparently are billing (in part) as though you have a second TV (or such) using a second outlet.

I'd suggest calling customer support until you find a person that has a clue, and this should be fixed with little problem.

Good luck.

Jim


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

Also check your Jan comcast bill, there's an additional page there that says the 2nd CC in Tivo S3 costs $1.50, along with the prices for all the packages, and box, outlet fees, and channel list for each package.


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## lemketron (Jun 24, 2002)

Anyone in Sunnyvale have any idea when they might "throw the switch" ? My cards both say "unknown", even though they called a few months back and I read them all of the requested information. It sounds like they might have mixed up card 1 and 2 or something?

I'm not looking forward to spending an hour on the phone to resolve something that's not (yet?) broken; I appear to still be getting Discovery HD (the only thing for which I suppose the encryption might matter since that's technically not "free")...

Has anyone tried calling TiVo on this? I'm wondering if they might have a more "direct line" to someone at Comcast who can help resolve this. Maybe it's just a dream, but it would sure make things easier if they could just make a conference call to someone (at Comcast) who could instantly straighten this out, rather than forcing every customer to deal with a potentially new Comcast rep who doesn't have the foggiest idea how to resolve the issue quickly and easily.


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## mikesay98 (Aug 26, 2006)

lemketron said:


> Anyone in Sunnyvale have any idea when they might "throw the switch" ? My cards both say "unknown", even though they called a few months back and I read them all of the requested information. It sounds like they might have mixed up card 1 and 2 or something?
> 
> I'm not looking forward to spending an hour on the phone to resolve something that's not (yet?) broken; I appear to still be getting Discovery HD (the only thing for which I suppose the encryption might matter since that's technically not "free")...
> 
> Has anyone tried calling TiVo on this? I'm wondering if they might have a more "direct line" to someone at Comcast who can help resolve this. Maybe it's just a dream, but it would sure make things easier if they could just make a conference call to someone (at Comcast) who could instantly straighten this out, rather than forcing every customer to deal with a potentially new Comcast rep who doesn't have the foggiest idea how to resolve the issue quickly and easily.


Mine say invalid as well, but when they flipped the switch the first time, none of my channels were affected. Now, I don't subscribe to the premium channels, so I wouldn't know about that, but my Discovery HD and similar channels were just fine.


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

lemketron said:


> I'm not looking forward to spending an hour on the phone to resolve something that's not (yet?) broken; I appear to still be getting Discovery HD (the only thing for which I suppose the encryption might matter since that's technically not "free")


One of my cards said unknown. I called Comcast on Saturday and the service rep had a clue, understood the problem, and had things fixed in the span of about ten minutes. Add another ten minutes waiting on hold, and it was a total of about twenty minutes and no hassles.

I posted about this earlier, so check that out.


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## lemketron (Jun 24, 2002)

mportuesi said:


> One of my cards said unknown. I called Comcast on Saturday and the service rep had a clue, understood the problem, and had things fixed in the span of about ten minutes. Add another ten minutes waiting on hold, and it was a total of about twenty minutes and no hassles.
> 
> I posted about this earlier, so check that out.


You say you had to pull the card to get the serial number... Is that because of ALL the numbers on the stupid Cable Card info and diagnostic screens, none of them actually matches the number printed ON the card? Argh. :-(


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

lemketron said:


> You say you had to pull the card to get the serial number... Is that because of ALL the numbers on the stupid Cable Card info and diagnostic screens, none of them actually matches the number printed ON the card? Argh. :-(


Apparently, Comcast wants to use there own serial number for the card (an NG number like they have for their set-top boxes), rather than the one put into the card by the manufacturer.


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

lemketron said:


> You say you had to pull the card to get the serial number... Is that because of ALL the numbers on the stupid Cable Card info and diagnostic screens, none of them actually matches the number printed ON the card? Argh. :-(


Yes, the CableCard has a serial number printed on the card. They'll ask for three pieces of info:


The serial number printed on the card
The Host Info number on the diagnostic screen
The Data number on the diagnostic screen

I powered down my Tivo, popped the cards, wrote the serial numbers down on a piece of paper, then reinserted the cards and powered the Tivo back up. Then I called Comcast, making sure I was sitting in front of the Tivo so I could check the numbers and whether they succeeded in pairing the card.

I'm not certain you really need to power down the Tivo to pop the cards, but I'm paranoid - I don't trust this CableCard technology at all.

Update: If you pop the cards, make sure they go back in the same slots they originally came from. In theory, this shouldn't make a difference since your cards aren't already paired, but if you swap cards 1 and 2 the Tivo will regenerate the data ID fields, and the cards will lose pairing with Comcast.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

lemketron said:


> I'm not looking forward to spending an hour on the phone to resolve something that's not (yet?) broken; I appear to still be getting Discovery HD (the only thing for which I suppose the encryption might matter since that's technically not "free")...


Discovery HD is CCI=0x00 in my area, which means even though it is encrypted, it wouldn't be affected by CPMS. HBO is usually a good tell-tale sign of whether there is a problem.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

CharlesH said:


> Apparently, Comcast wants to use there own serial number for the card (an NG number like they have for their set-top boxes), rather than the one put into the card by the manufacturer.


Just to concur, from my experience, they have already associated the NG serial # of the card with all the relevant info they need before the cards were delivered. Thus they ask you to read the NG serial # and their back-end will automatically associate the rest of the info. Then you just give them your Host and Data fields and the pairing can be completed.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

mportuesi said:


> Update: If you pop the cards, make sure they go back in the same slots they originally came from. In theory, this shouldn't make a difference since your cards aren't already paired, but if you swap cards 1 and 2 the Tivo will regenerate the host and data IDs, and the cards will lose pairing with Comcast.


The Data ID will be regenerated. The Host info is constant. As you said the pairing will be broken if the Host/Data pair does not match what they have.


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

sfhub said:


> The Data ID will be regenerated. The Host info is constant. As you said the pairing will be broken if the Host/Data pair does not match what they have.


Thanks. I'll go and edit my prior message for correctness.


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## TBoyd (Apr 9, 2000)

re: ... they have already associated the NG serial # of the card with all the relevant info they need before the cards were delivered. Thus they ask you to read the NG serial # and their back-end will automatically associate the rest of the info. Then you just give them your Host and Data fields and the pairing can be completed. 

Actually, this is not all that's needed in every case. In my case, in the South Bay, they also needed the 'Unit Address' because it had not been correctly input at the warehouse. Only THEN could the card be paired properly, and the 'Host Validation' line read VALID. Jus' sayin... 

Tim


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## lemketron (Jun 24, 2002)

sfhub said:


> Discovery HD is CCI=0x00 in my area, which means even though it is encrypted, it wouldn't be affected by CPMS. HBO is usually a good tell-tale sign of whether there is a problem.


I don't pay for HBO. If Discovery isn't affected by CPMS, then should I really care if the cards say "valid" or "unknown"? 

In my case, IT WORKS, as in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I'd certainly hate to make things worse (or for that matter, even have to waste the time to call them to "fix" it considering how many hours I already invested last fall...)


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## shady (May 31, 2002)

lemketron said:


> I don't pay for HBO. If Discovery isn't affected by CPMS, then should I really care if the cards say "valid" or "unknown"?
> 
> In my case, IT WORKS, as in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I'd certainly hate to make things worse (or for that matter, even have to waste the time to call them to "fix" it considering how many hours I already invested last fall...)


That's exactly where I'm at.


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

lemketron said:


> I don't pay for HBO. If Discovery isn't affected by CPMS, then should I really care if the cards say "valid" or "unknown"?
> 
> In my case, IT WORKS, as in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I'd certainly hate to make things worse (or for that matter, even have to waste the time to call them to "fix" it considering how many hours I already invested last fall...)


I'm the same as you.... I don't get any premium channels so I'm theoretically not affected by the CPMS switchover.

I decided to call Comcast and fix my card pairings simply because I don't know what they'll decide to do in the future. One day they might turn on the CPMS flags for Discovery or ESPN or whatever, and I'll wake up to find those channels missing. I decided to call them as a preventive measure.


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

lemketron said:


> I don't pay for HBO. If Discovery isn't affected by CPMS, then should I really care if the cards say "valid" or "unknown"?
> 
> In my case, IT WORKS, as in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I'd certainly hate to make things worse (or for that matter, even have to waste the time to call them to "fix" it considering how many hours I already invested last fall...)


The issue is that this is all by policy of the cable company. So, today they may not have any copy protection, tomorrow they may (will) turn it on for HBO, the next week for Cinemax. Nothing's saying they won't have to turn it on for any other digitl channel they carry on the system.

So, while it's not broken right now, it could suddenly be broken in the future. Do you really want to find out that none of your Discovery recordings happened over your two week vacation because they turned copy protection on the day after you left. Once you figure out what the problem is (probably blaming the tivo software in the process), you then have to fight the battle with the cable company to fix things up. Isn't it better to fight the battle now, so you don't have to worry about it in the future?


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

lemketron said:


> I don't pay for HBO. If Discovery isn't affected by CPMS, then should I really care if the cards say "valid" or "unknown"?
> 
> In my case, IT WORKS, as in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I'd certainly hate to make things worse (or for that matter, even have to waste the time to call them to "fix" it considering how many hours I already invested last fall...)


I didn't say Discovery HD isn't affected by CPMS. I said Discovery HD for my system is CCI=0x00 (currently) and thus isn't affected by CPMS. If that should change or you have some other channel where CCI is non-zero you would care.

As others have mentioned, this is all by policy, so you wouldn't want to figure out the policy changed while you were on vacation.

It's up to you whether it is worth your time to get it fixed. It is possible you may never see any issue even if you don't do anything.

If you want to see the current CCI status for the channels you watch, tune to that channel and look at the Diagnostics page under Account & System Information.


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## lemketron (Jun 24, 2002)

Roderigo said:


> ...Do you really want to find out that none of your Discovery recordings happened over your two week vacation because they turned copy protection on the day after you left.


Sigh... My S3 drive is so full of "save until I delete" content, I'd likely return from a two week vacation (were I ever to take one) to find only the most recently recorded shows anyway.

It's not clear (given my current season pass list) that I'd even notice if Discovery had become unavailable... but if it did, I suspect I would then call and attempt to straighten out the cable card stuff (hoping that by then they'd be pretty good at resolving it quickly).


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## schoflyer (Apr 17, 2007)

mportuesi said:


> Yes, the CableCard has a serial number printed on the card. They'll ask for three pieces of info:
> 
> 
> The serial number printed on the card
> ...


I did exactly this. I actually got the SN's, Host, Data, and Unit Address for both cards all on one piece of paper before I made the call. 5 Minutes later both of my Unknown card's were showing Valid.


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## magentaville (May 21, 2007)

The HOST VALIDATION showing up as unknown on both my cable cards. All the Starz channels died over the weekend. 

I called Comcast, explained the problem, gave them all my cable card numbers. They escalated to a supervisor and within 45 minutes they had fixed the problem and even called me back for a follow-up. The Unit Address was incorrect on my account, which caused the problem.

Now both cards show up as Valid 05 and valid 08 (or some number like that).


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## cgould (Dec 28, 2002)

I don't have any premium channels (yet) but was thinking about HBO/Cmax for starwars HD 
My host validation shows as "unknown" although I gave my info to the third-party survey months ago...
I can tune all my regular/HD (non-premium) channels in OK, but none of them have any CCI copy protection on (just the encryption/mapping, which is OK)... but I wanted to get prepared.

I used "live chat" since I figured it would be faster/easier to copy/paste the info I'd typed in from the Tivo screens, rather than read over the phone  This seemed to work well, the CSR found my cards from the NG* serial numbers quickly, and validated the host/data/unit addr numbers. She said they all matched!
She sent a couple hits to my card, no help... I tried ordering cinemax to test, and re-hit (in case the validation doesn't get set up unless you get real premium channels), still no help.

Any suggestions? maybe she didn't read her side close enough?
When I tune to premium channels, I get the pairing screen popping up, asking to call cable operator to activate service.

One thing I noted is that on the "pairing" screen, there is a "CableCard(tm)" number that is *almost* the same as the UnitAddress #... maybe some confusion?
I used the bottom line UnitAddress numbers not that, and that matched the UA number on back of the physical card.

There is also no use for the "card (soft) serial number" (first line of Unit Address for the CableCard Status screen), correct? eg like "0011D22324"
Real UnitAddr is like 000 02989 78381 000 right?
(mucked some digits to protect privacy  )

On the status screen, I see:

Download Status [empty]

Segments to download: 0
State: Wait to Start

Entitlement Mgt Msgs [empty]

On the Conditional Access Page, I see:
UnitAddress: 0011D22324
000 02989 78381 000
Encryption: DES
Connected:yes;EnabledByCP: yes
Auth: SUBSCRIBED
CA enable: possible
ECM PID: 0x0431
Component PIDs: [ bunch hex 0x0840 etc]
Host Validation: Unknown 00
Copy Protection Key: disabled
CCI: 0x00
( verified CCI status of 0x00 for HBO-HD, though I don't get it, and other premiums eg CinemaxHD I ordered is 0x02 )

I don't see any difference for channels/tuners on the Diagnostics screen, eg re tuning status etc, just the CCI data.

Any advice?


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

cgould said:


> One thing I noted is that on the "pairing" screen, there is a "CableCard(tm)" number that is *almost* the same as the UnitAddress #... maybe some confusion?
> I used the bottom line UnitAddress numbers not that, and that matched the UA number on back of the physical card.


That "CableCARD(tm)" # is the CableCARD_ID that is used for pairing. That # + Host/Data need to be matched correctly for pairing to work.

For Comcast Bay Area they have been recording the CableCARD_ID and associating with the NGCxxx serial # on the card when the cards leave the warehouse so commonly the installers only call in the NGCxxx serial #, the host, and data #s. However some people have found that the NGCxxx serial # was associated with the wrong CableCARD_ID at the warehouse. In that case repeatedly telling them the NGCxxx # and having them match it to their system will have no positive effect because it will bring up the wrong CableCARD_ID. The association between NGC and CableCARD_ID needs to be fixed in that case.

It is no accident the CableCARD_ID looks similar to the unit address at the bottom of the MMI screen.

CableCARD_ID(also called POD_ID) is composed of


> *Cable Card ID = ABC-DEF-GHI-JKL-Z*
> 
> *ABC* = 000. This is the manufacturer ID, which is assigned to Motorola as 000
> *DEF-GHI-JKL* = the 9 least significant digits of the unit address (when in decimal format)
> *Z* = the Luhn digit, which is a checksum defined by the OpenCable Copy protection specification.


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## cgould (Dec 28, 2002)

sfhub said:


> That "CableCARD(tm)" # is the CableCARD_ID that is used for pairing. That # + Host/Data need to be matched correctly for pairing to work.
> 
> For Comcast Bay Area they have been recording the CableCARD_ID and associating with the NGCxxx serial # on the card when the cards leave the warehouse so commonly the installers only call in the NGCxxx serial #, the host, and data #s. However some people have found that the NGCxxx serial # was associated with the wrong CableCARD_ID at the warehouse. In that case repeatedly telling them the NGCxxx # and having them match it to their system will have no positive effect because it will bring up the wrong CableCARD_ID. The association between NGC and CableCARD_ID needs to be fixed in that case.
> 
> ...


Thanks for clarifying!
I'd always heard/understood it needed the UnitAddress (which is the one on the tivo Pairing screen, well, both of them are), not the CableCard ID...

cablecardID: 000-298-978-380-1
unitaddress: 000-02989-78380-023 (also printed on back of physical card)

So, I will try giving them the CableCard ID ("Cable Card ID = ABC-DEF-GHI-JKL-Z") instead, and see what happens.


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## cgould (Dec 28, 2002)

cgould said:


> Thanks for clarifying!
> I'd always heard/understood it needed the UnitAddress (which is the one on the tivo Pairing screen, well, both of them are), not the CableCard ID...
> 
> cablecardID: 000-298-978-380-1
> ...


Well, I passed the extra info on to chat CSR again, and he said they did correct one item (the cablecard ID I assume) for CCard#1, but that card#2 was correct...
and no change, still unknown host validation. ?


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

The other thing people have mentioned (which I have no way of verifying) is the data entry screen has the items lined up in a confusing way and sometimes they enter the information on the wrong line.

One other person mentioned earlier they can do the hit from the DAC and that would fix it.

I think if you call enough people you will get someone who really knows what is going on and it will be minutes for them to fix it, but getting to that person could be hours.


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## jboy (Sep 25, 2003)

Hi,

My S3 should be here today (dang, missed the rebate!) and the Comcast guys are coming by the house on Sunday morning. Does anyone have the a list of the things that need to occur to have a successful install?

Thanks,

Jerry


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## schoflyer (Apr 17, 2007)

1) It would be helpful I suppose if you wrote down the SN's beginning with NG and the UA numbers off each card before he inserts them and confirm which cards you put in each slot. This way you won't have to pull them if there is trouble later.

2) Don't let the guy leave until both cards read valid.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

I think I know the answer to this, but I thought I'd ask just to be sure. If I add a second S3 I'll have additional charges of $1.50(CC) + $1.50(CC) + $6.95(Additional Outlet Fee) plus another TiVo subscription fee?

Currently have one S3 with Limited Basic.


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

If they charge the same as here in Saratoga, you should only have one $1.50 charge for both cards plus the $6.95 additional digital outlet fee.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

retired_guy said:


> If they charge the same as here in Saratoga, you should only have one $1.50 charge for both cards plus the $6.95 additional digital outlet fee.


That's not too bad I guess, the extra TiVo sub is a bummer though.


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

keenanSR said:


> I think I know the answer to this, but I thought I'd ask just to be sure. If I add a second S3 I'll have additional charges of $1.50(CC) + $1.50(CC) + $6.95(Additional Outlet Fee) plus another TiVo subscription fee?
> 
> Currently have one S3 with Limited Basic.


Currently, in Santa Cruz, I have Extended basic + 4 cablecards (2 S3s) + DCT2K + HBO a-la-carte, and am only charged 1.50*3 for the cards, $4 for the STB, and no additional outlet fees (plus the extended basic and HBO charge). Not exactly sure how I got them to do that, but it kinda makes sense, in that I don't have a digital package, so kinda no additional digital outlets.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

Roderigo said:


> Currently, in Santa Cruz, I have Extended basic + 4 cablecards (2 S3s) + DCT2K + HBO a-la-carte, and am only charged 1.50*3 for the cards, $4 for the STB, and no additional outlet fees (plus the extended basic and HBO charge). Not exactly sure how I got them to do that, but it kinda makes sense, in that I don't have a digital package, so kinda no additional digital outlets.


Thats' a good point, I don't have any digital either, certainly something to keep in mind when/if I go for the second S3, or equivalent it there is one at the time.


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## coolburn95 (Jan 9, 2007)

Hello,

I've read through this thread (and the other big Comcast one), and I think I understand regarding the Host Validation.

However, my current situation does not seem to match up.

I have San Francisco Comcast. When they turned on the copy protection, one of my CableCARDs stopped receiving HBO. However, the next day they were swapping the cards (for a different problem) anyways, so I didn't call to have them fixed. 

So they swapped one out, called them in, and both were and ARE receiving HBO just fine. However, one of them still says Host Validation: Unknown, even though it receives HBO just fine.

CableCARD #1:
Host Validation: Unknown 00
Copy Protection Key: Disabled
CCI: 0x00

CableCARD #2:
Host Validation: Valid 01
Copy Protection Key: Enabled
CCI: 0x02


That's what is displayed on each, when I'm on the HD HBO channel.

Again, both receive HBO just fine. 

I tried to call and get them to somehow re-enter the data for CC#1, to try and get it to Valid. And they claim they already have all the data, and since it's receiving HBO fine, there's nothing wrong.

Any advice on this scenario?

Thank you!


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Use the S3's CableCARD menu option to test channels. It will allow you to isolate each CableCARD independently with no confusion. If you use TiVo, it will sometimes switch from CC#1 to CC#2 to be more efficient. That can give you confusing results if you are not used to it. With the CableCARD test menu, you will force it to test one CableCARD or the other.


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

coolburn95 said:


> That's what is displayed on each, when I'm on the HD HBO channel.
> 
> Again, both receive HBO just fine.
> 
> I tried to call and get them to somehow re-enter the data for CC#1, to try and get it to Valid. And they claim they already have all the data, and since it's receiving HBO fine, there's nothing wrong.


I checked HBO on my system this morning (Santa Cruz, but it had copy protection turned on at the same time as everyyone else in this thread a couple of week ago), and it still wasn't copy protected. I checked Cinemax and Showtime, and they were now copy protected.


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## sologuy (Dec 5, 2006)

My Showtime channels all stopped working on Thursday. After spending some time Thursday night on call with CSR and ending up with an appt for truck roll, I decided to read further in this thread. Phoned Comcast and went over card details with CSR. We compared host, data and ua. Found out that the ua was flipped between CC1 and CC2. After they fixed that, I now have Showtime back, and I have my host validation "Valid 05". Yippee! 

I had previously had phone calls with CSRs but never resulting in getting host validation. Moral of the story, as many others have stated here, go over each and every piece of data with the CSR and have them confirm it! Thanks to all the posters in this thread!!


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## coolburn95 (Jan 9, 2007)

sologuy said:


> My Showtime channels all stopped working on Thursday. After spending some time Thursday night on call with CSR and ending up with an appt for truck roll, I decided to read further in this thread. Phoned Comcast and went over card details with CSR. We compared host, data and ua. Found out that the ua was flipped between CC1 and CC2. After they fixed that, I now have Showtime back, and I have my host validation "Valid 05". Yippee!
> 
> I had previously had phone calls with CSRs but never resulting in getting host validation. Moral of the story, as many others have stated here, go over each and every piece of data with the CSR and have them confirm it! Thanks to all the posters in this thread!!


Apparently HBO copy protection had been disabled for me, too, which is why everything was working. However, Showtime had stopped working.

After making a couple of calls to Comcast, they fixed it so both say Valid now. (One sayd Valid 03 and one says Vaild 07. Not sure if that means anything.)

And, now I can receive all channels correctly.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

coolburn95 said:


> (One sayd Valid 03 and one says Vaild 07. Not sure if that means anything.)


Not sure what the number means (mine have different numbers also), but it doesn't seem to make any difference, as long as it says "Valid".


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## Gavroche (May 27, 2007)

You know, after reading all this stuff about all the problems caused by Cable Cards... I doubt I will EVER have cable cards installed in my S3. It just doesn't seem worth the hassle. I haven't had them installed thus far because I simply don't have time to be able to schedule a time when I can be at home for the Cable guy to come out. My experienmce with Comcast on any issue at all (non Tivo related) has been less than satisfactory, so there is no way I'm letting one of those guys TOUCH my S3!

Of course, I don't have the ability to record most digital channels on my S3 or record anything in HD, which is a shame (and sort of makes the S3 a waste of money to begin with...) but that's why I have an S2 with the Comcast digital/HD cable box. At least in that case I can record the HD channels (in SD of course) as well as any channel I can get via the box.

Sure, it's analog, but it's saving me a lot of headaches trying to deal with the cable cards and comcast. I'll stick with my setup for now.

In fact, had I known all of the limitations of the S3 in advance, I would never have spent $800 on it! There should have been an option to use a cable box, like with the S2. Oh well!

Anyone wanna buy a hardly-used S3?  hehe


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Gavroche said:


> You know, after reading all this stuff about all the problems caused by Cable Cards... I doubt I will EVER have cable cards installed in my S3. It just doesn't seem worth the hassle. I haven't had them installed thus far because I simply don't have time to be able to schedule a time when I can be at home for the Cable guy to come out. My experienmce with Comcast on any issue at all (non Tivo related) has been less than satisfactory, so there is no way I'm letting one of those guys TOUCH my S3!
> 
> Of course, I don't have the ability to record most digital channels on my S3 or record anything in HD, which is a shame (and sort of makes the S3 a waste of money to begin with...) but that's why I have an S2 with the Comcast digital/HD cable box. At least in that case I can record the HD channels (in SD of course) as well as any channel I can get via the box.
> 
> ...


Coward.


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## Gavroche (May 27, 2007)

bareyb said:


> Coward.


It's not being a coward, it's that the time involved is not worth it. All you have to do is read through these forums to see how long people are spending trying to get this crap to work. My time is more important than that.

Now, in the future, if there will be TTG support for HD programming and if I can find a way to get that to work on one of my home media players (say the D-LINK DSM520) I'll be first in line to spend the time required to get the cable cards set up and working. Until then, it's not worth it.

If I want to watch HD programming I can always watch it directly from my cable box. If I want to record HD programming, I can always record it on my S2 and watch it in SD. (AND Transfer it for MRV AND use TTG for that matter!)

Also add in to this the fact that In the Bay Area (at least in Walnut Creek...) there are only like 10 (or so) non-premium HD channels on Comcast anyway, and maybe only 3 or 4 that I actually ever watch. (<sarcasm mode on> Yeah that's SURE WORTH the extra $5 a month for the HD Package <sarcasm mode off>)


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

Gavroche said:


> It's not being a coward, it's that the time involved is not worth it. All you have to do is read through these forums to see how long people are spending trying to get this crap to work. My time is more important than that.


You shouldn't have bought the S3 in the first place. It's like buying a race car and permanently keeping it in the garage because gas is too expensive.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Gavroche said:


> You know, after reading all this stuff about all the problems caused by Cable Cards... I doubt I will EVER have cable cards installed in my S3. It just doesn't seem worth the hassle.


Most people who post on these type of threads come here when they have problems. They are not necessarily representative of the overall customer base experience. My 2 S3s took 15 minutes each to install and I've never had the Host Validation problem, they got it right the first time.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

I was kidding about the coward part and believe me I understand about hating the truck rolls. Still... It seems a shame to have an HDTV and all this great gear only to record HD and watch it SD. 

Maybe there's a middle ground? You could do ONE truck roll and take it from there. You may be one of the lucky ones who gets the whole thing to work on the first try.


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## Gavroche (May 27, 2007)

mportuesi said:


> You shouldn't have bought the S3 in the first place. It's like buying a race car and permanently keeping it in the garage because gas is too expensive.


Absolutely right. A great analogy!

I would actually get rid of my S3 except for the fact that I do like having the oodles and oodles of space, and, believe it or not, I really like the "ASPECT" feature which does not exist on the S2. Changing the aspect on my tv is a pain in the you-know-what (I have to navigate through menus to do it).

I actually knew there was no MRV or TTG when I bought it, but bought it with the understanding that those features would be activated later.

I DIDN'T know that I couldn't use it with a cable box. The reason why this functionality was removed entirely still somewhat escapes me... why downgrade the 3rd generation unit from the 2nd generation? As a technology professional and a programmer, this seems quite strange to me.


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## Gavroche (May 27, 2007)

sfhub said:


> Most people who post on these type of threads come here when they have problems. They are not necessarily representative of the overall customer base experience. My 2 S3s took 15 minutes each to install and I've never had the Host Validation problem, they got it right the first time.


Point taken. I've had very few actual issues with Tivo over all, and I think I've been a customer for something like 8 or 9 years. I started with the series 1, which I still ahve put away somewhere in a box.

Now I'm running 1 S3, 1 S2DT, and 1 S2.


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## Gavroche (May 27, 2007)

bareyb said:


> I was kidding about the coward part and believe me I understand about hating the truck rolls. Still... It seems a shame to have an HDTV and all this great gear only to record HD and watch it SD.
> 
> Maybe there's a middle ground? You could do ONE truck roll and take it from there. You may be one of the lucky ones who gets the whole thing to work on the first try.


I MIGHT be one of the lucky ones... but the probability is not high. As I mentioned, I've never had a good experience dealing with Comcast on ANYTHING. If there was anything else available to me where I lived I wouldn't use Comcast. They have absolutely terrible customer service, and have gone so far as to insult me over the phone when I try to explain to them that everyone in my building who has Comcast is dark and the the problem can't just be with my Box or my computer. They never understand a word I say. I don't even call any more when I have a problem because they always tell me there is no outage in my area when there clearly is.

In my experience they have to be one of the worst companies I have ever dealt with.

Oh, and I knew you were kidding with your remark... no offense taken


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## jboy (Sep 25, 2003)

Gavroche said:


> You know, after reading all this stuff about all the problems caused by Cable Cards... I doubt I will EVER have cable cards installed in my S3. It just doesn't seem worth the hassle. I haven't had them installed thus far because I simply don't have time to be able to schedule a time when I can be at home for the Cable guy to come out. My experienmce with Comcast on any issue at all (non Tivo related) has been less than satisfactory, so there is no way I'm letting one of those guys TOUCH my S3!
> 
> Of course, I don't have the ability to record most digital channels on my S3 or record anything in HD, which is a shame (and sort of makes the S3 a waste of money to begin with...) but that's why I have an S2 with the Comcast digital/HD cable box. At least in that case I can record the HD channels (in SD of course) as well as any channel I can get via the box.
> 
> ...


I just had my S3 set up by Comcast (yes Sunday AM) in Pleasanton, with 2 techs. They first tech had some cards that were not working. But the second tech had 2 cards that worked fine. In total they were here for 30 minutes!

When they had a problem. They immediately contacted the headend person on the phone and decides to swap the cards. They seemed to really have their act together.

jerry


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

In Milpitas (and probably the rest of the SF Bay area), CCI:0x02 is back for Showtime, TMC, Cinemax, and Starz, but not HBO. So for those who haven't gotten their cards paired properly, those channels are gone.


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## cgould (Dec 28, 2002)

cgould said:


> Thanks for clarifying!
> I'd always heard/understood it needed the UnitAddress (which is the one on the tivo Pairing screen, well, both of them are), not the CableCard ID...
> 
> cablecardID: 000-298-978-380-1
> ...


I've called & done chat 3x w/ Comcast CSRs now, and basically confirmed all my host/data/etc #s are correct for both cards... note, there still has been some confusion w/ CSRs over whether they want cablecardID# (the short one SFHub quoted above), or the UnitAddress... each time they said a different thing  However, I've tried both, and still didn't work.

I gave up (and it's past 5/25 Cinemax Star Wars), so I tried switching to activate HBO instead (6/1 showing, plus it's CCI 0x00 anyway so the host validation doesn't matter...)

but, even THAT didn't work. The DES encryption on the validation status screen said NOT_SUBSCRIBED (vs others I am authorized fine for.)
Why is even that not working? How could their hits not even be handling the encrypted channels? (when I get other encrypted, and new, channels fine like NatlGeo and MoJo and CW etc)

It seems consistent at least re CCI status, since tuning copy-protected channels like Cinemax pops up the cablecard info "Call cable operator to activate" screen, whereas HBO does not; is just a grey screen.

Any ideas? Why aren't the hits changing anything? All my other digital/HD channels (clear and encrypted) are fine at least, so I haven't broken anything. I've tried popping the cards. I've tried restarting the tivo (but not redoing guided setup.) I've set the channels to "I receive" in channel setup. I've triple-checked all the NG* serial #s and hostid etc stuff w/ the CSRs, all are correct (except the UA vs CCardID# discrepancy above.)
They've tried regular and "INT" harder hits. No change.

One CSR suggested perhaps swapping the cards, to force generate a new pairing, and entering completely new #s in the backend DB... might be worth a shot?
But, that risks breaking my currently-working setup (for most all except premium channels, which I'm still not set on getting.)

help, before they force me to take a truck roll 

PS: re other comments above- except for this premium channel issue, I've had NO problems at all w/ cablecard setup from the get go in Sept, from the first inexperienced installer... they are DEFINITELY worth it (especially the likelihood to at least get plain HD channels working first try), to get all the glorious HD channels, even if only mostly local broadcasts (since OTA is a hassle/unreliable for me.) At least try ONCE for cablecards.

PS in the meantime, I saw AT&T trucks around Foster City on my street today, the tech confirmed they are laying fiber for Project Lightspeed... so some competition coming


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## Jason (Oct 3, 2000)

After speaking with about 4 different Comcast CS reps over the past month, the other day I got lucky and spoke with a rep that knew what needed to be done. Even though I had provided all the serial number/UnitAddress/CablecardID info numerous times in the past, for some reason whoever had set up the Cablecards on my account had them as two "pairs" of a single CC. She then put me on hold to look into the problem, and about 10 minutes later, she said she had reconfigured my account to show the CC's as a single pair and resent the signal to my cards. After a few minutes, each CC showed "Auth: SUBSCRIBED" and "Host Validation: Valid".


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

cgould said:


> I've called & done chat 3x w/ Comcast CSRs now, and basically confirmed all my host/data/etc #s are correct for both cards... note, there still has been some confusion w/ CSRs over whether they want cablecardID# (the short one SFHub quoted above), or the UnitAddress... each time they said a different thing  However, I've tried both, and still didn't work.


Technically the specs mention to use the CableCARD ID, but in reality they can generate CableCARD ID from UnitAddress so they should be able to use either. As noted earlier though, they try to avoid CableCARD ID and Unit Address completely (unless something goes really wrong) because they record the information they need at the warehouse and associate with the NGCxxx #.

I would say just keep trying. I know folks who had to speak to 6+ reps before they got the right one. If you are really at wits end, you can always schedule a truck roll and start the whole process from scratch, bypassing any snafus that may have been attached to your installation.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

I got the letter from Comcast that they are going to be doing the system upgrade (550MHz to 1GHz) in my town (Milpitas) over the next two months. Just wondering, for those in the Bay Area who have had their system upgraded recently, has there been any sign of the dreaded Switched Digital Video (SDV) disease around here?


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

CharlesH said:


> I got the letter from Comcast that they are going to be doing the system upgrade (550MHz to 1GHz) in my town (Milpitas) over the next two months. Just wondering, for those in the Bay Area who have had their system upgraded recently, has there been any sign of the dreaded Switched Digital Video (SDV) disease around here?


1GHz? You just went from Comcast ghetto to Comcast elite, more bandwidth than even the 860MHz folks. I guess 750MHz will be the new Comcast ghetto.

I would think the incentive to use SDV would be more on the bandwidth starved systems than on a system which just got upgraded and is flush with bandwidth, but I'm not a cable exec.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

sfhub said:


> 1GHz? You just went from Comcast ghetto to Comcast elite, more bandwidth than even the 860MHz folks. I guess 750MHz will be the new Comcast ghetto.


I think the current generation of set-top boxes and cable modems, as well as the S3, can only go up to 860MHz. Looks to me like they are doing a bit of future-proofing.


sfhub said:


> I would think the incentive to use SDV would be more on the bandwidth starved systems than on a system which just got upgraded and is flush with bandwidth, but I'm not a cable exec.


Unless, of course, the *real* motivation is to short-circuit the separability requirement and push customers back toward renting *their* set top box.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

sfhub said:


> 1GHz? You just went from Comcast ghetto to Comcast elite, more bandwidth than even the 860MHz folks. I guess 750MHz will be the new Comcast ghetto.
> 
> I would think the incentive to use SDV would be more on the bandwidth starved systems than on a system which just got upgraded and is flush with bandwidth, but I'm not a cable exec.


Yes, 1GHz, that's what Mr J told us months ago, the 550 systems will leap-frog the 750-860 systems for awhile. The bottom line of course will be how soon they actually put some real channels on the 1GHz systems.

Of course, no letter in Santa Rosa, we will continue to be maintained as a living museum for low bandwidth cable systems(1 HD channel addition in 4 yrs, and it's only part-time).


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## VickyK (Dec 18, 2006)

We lost our Showtime channels on the S3 (both cards) this weekend. We still have them on the S2.

Well, a truck was here and left, and I still don't have Showtime channels on the S3. We have spoken with 2 CSRs, and now had a tech here, and they are totally clueless about what could be the problem. But the tech left his phone number and lead's pager. He said that he was escalating our ticket.

What do I do now?


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## snarkoplepsy (Sep 29, 2006)

I think I have the solution (at least this worked for me)

I called Comcast, and verified all the various CableCard IDs over the phone. There was no mistake. They already had all the correct serial #s, Host IDs, UnitAddresses, etc. *But* just to be sure, they deleted the existing entries from their database and re-added them. A few minutes later, everything was working.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

I've heard mention that there are actually 2 databases that hold that information and there is a background script that runs and keeps them in sync.

I suppose it is possible if the system gets out of sync, there could be a problem detecting when to run that script. Clearing out the data and reentering might get past that roadblock. All just theories, nothing solid to back it up.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

I live in the Cupertino Foothills and Comcast has now turned copy protection back on for HBOHD only it appears. I lost HBOHD on one out of my three cards to the dreaded "searching for signal" window. 

I made the call to Comcast and had to pull the one card that wasn't working and re-do all the pairing numbers all over again. The bad news is, it took about 45 minutes and required me to pull my A/V rack out again (big pain!). 

The good news is, HBOHD is now working and it didn't require a truck roll. Not sure what's going to happen if they decide to enable more stations with copy protection, but I'll hope for the best. Anyone else lose HBOHD in the last few days?


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## Kenji (Jun 29, 2003)

bareyb said:


> Anyone else lose HBOHD in the last few days?


Yup, I had it yesterday, but not today. Sigh...


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Kenji said:


> Yup, I had it yesterday, but not today. Sigh...


You can figure out which card it is by using the "test channels"submenu on the S3 Cablecards screens. Unless both cards aren't working in which case it doesn't really matter.

You are going to have to "make the call" to Comcast and be ready to pull your cards. Make sure to have them read back the info to you. My gal today made THREE mistakes writing stuff down in the wrong places and even got the numbers wrong. If I hadn't checked her work, I'd still be watching a blank screen.


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## ampm99 (Feb 17, 2003)

One of my two series 3 stopped receiving MAX & Showtime on both HD and SD channels. I have Platinum service. 
My diagnosis showed just one card was bad the other was fine. That was 3 weeks ago. Tried to get the COMcast supervisor to delete & re-enter my card but it had no effect. Comcast came today and switched the card. After 3 hits and multiple reboots and supposedly re-entering everything --- NO CHANGE. Still don't get MAX or SHOWTIME on new card. Comcast tech said they did everything they could. I needed to do a Factory Reset. That sometimes works. 

Does anyone think this will work? I would lose the HD Starwars series I just saved on my SATA drive. Not the end of the world but a pain. 

Could my Series 3 be at fault? 

Suggestions appreciated


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

ampm99 said:


> One of my two series 3 stopped receiving MAX & Showtime on both HD and SD channels. I have Platinum service.
> My diagnosis showed just one card was bad the other was fine. That was 3 weeks ago. Tried to get the COMcast supervisor to delete & re-enter my card but it had no effect. Comcast came today and switched the card. After 3 hits and multiple reboots and supposedly re-entering everything --- NO CHANGE. Still don't get MAX or SHOWTIME on new card. Comcast tech said they did everything they could. I needed to do a Factory Reset. That sometimes works.
> 
> Does anyone think this will work? I would lose the HD Starwars series I just saved on my SATA drive. Not the end of the world but a pain.
> ...


They need to keep swapping cards until they find one that works. It could possibly be the S3 but my money is still on the CC or some other error on the part of the cableco.

Maybe you could try putting a known working card in that slot and see if you receive your channels? Not sure if that works or not, but if it did, it would eliminate the S3 as the cultprit and might be a way to get them to come back out again with some more cards. You could say you did it even if you didn't.. 

They need to bring at least 3 cards with them. Mine took two visits and four cards. Keep the faith. It's still probably a cable card issue.


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## ivyvine420 (Mar 14, 2007)

I have the same problem. Lost Starz channels, then when they tried to fix it with hits to the cards, lost Showtime (except for one of them, SHOWXP channel 582), and the Cinemax channels. My Starz HD works, but not the Showtime or Cinemax HD channels.

After weeks of having tech come out with a truck roll and/or calling in and having the try stuff from over the phone, I finally have one card that is valid (for host validation) and gets all my channels again, while the other tuner/cable card are still missing them (and now just lost some of my HBO channels too I think). This card refuses to be validated (still says unknown) and keeps losing the EnabledByCP: yes (to "no) and then goes back to "yes" again. 

I have tested out with different techs many different cablecards and different combos (including testing out ones with the same firmware to make sure that wasn't stopping the one cablecard/tuner from becoming valid). We managed to get one card TOTALLY valid on the second tuner (where it said "enabled" for the Copy Protection Key listed under the Host Validation line), and couldn't get any card to do it in the first slot. We ended up messing that card up by trying it in the 1st slot, they left with cards back to the way they were beforehand (and then I lost the first tuner, it wouldn't "show" any channels available and was "disconnected" but for the first day (out of 4) it would record any lower non-encrypted channels just fine, then stopped and just didn't work).

Tech came out, we got another card TOTALLY valid in the 1st tuner slot this time, so we knew the slot couldn't be bad, but NOTHING would work totally in the 2nd slot of course. We lost the validation on the 1st while testing out stuff, he came back the next day and we tested out several more cards (have been through 9 in total with this process), got the 2nd one to say Valid again finally (but not enabled for the copy protection key, the valid is what gives us the premium channels back again), and the 1st card the best we could do was to get it working with the other non-lost channels... This is the card that keeps going back and forth with "yes" and "no" for the EnabledByCP now. I was told that the only possibility they could see with it being the tivo's fault was that if it wouldn't let BOTH cards be "Valid" at the same time, which is just weird. Both *had* been working fine before the CPMS got enabled, we have the Digital Platinum package too. 

We have also had someone "rebuild" our account to try and see if there was something wrong with that which had no effect on anything, other than possibly losing our "free" digital sports tier that comes with the Triple Play Package. We have our other HD channels come through just fine, but several times the tech person looking at account would say we didn't have it listed on our account at all. I was left with a supervisor (after 5 phone calls, 5 truck rolls, estimated 12 hours of messing with cablecards and 9 cablecards total) telling me that they have no idea what it could be other than for me to get another S3 tivo and try it with my cablecards and see if it will work properly in a new one (of course I went to order one from Costco to have it suddenly show product "not available" anymore an hour before I was going to put my order in).

I am about ready to buy a DT Series 2 so that I can have something that works with the little On Demand boxes (should arrive to me soon) which is a mini-cable box kinda, and that has 2 tuners with at least 1 getting the premium channels (like my S3 is currently doing). This way I can also use the MRV and tivo transfer (TTG and GoBack) until the S3 might get it enabled... 

I hate having to leave my desktop computer on all the time just so that if I am having something record to it from USB tuner, that it can actually do it and not miss the show, as I record and save many shows and movies and my USB tuner and my roommates Series 2 (which only has 1 tuner) are the only way to currently do this and inconvenient for my roommate and our electric bill.

So I have a few different phone numbers for techs in the SF Bay area (east bay) and if you are having the same problem as me, maybe we can get a bunch of our accounts looked at (problems looked at) together as each tech says this is the first time they have seen this, but if they get a bunch of people with the same problem that are all calling the same person, maybe it can get worked out a bit better.

The Solution is getting the "Host Validation" to say "Valid", the Copy Protection Key can say "Disabled" or "Enabled" (probably prefered), and once it is both valid and enabled for those 2, the lines near the top that have the Connected: Yes, and EnabledByCP: Yes and up going away as well as the line below it, and are replaced with something else (that will then state the status in one line).

And as for getting it to say valid, the 3 times we managed to get it to happen, nobody knows exactly what was done (what kind of the 4 types of "hits" was sent) to get this result. 

I would like to add that I have spoken with in person or over the phone to about a dozen different people as well...


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## Kenji (Jun 29, 2003)

Sometime last week, I started to get the dreaded "your cable company needs to enable this device" screen whenever I tried to view HBOHD. "Fine, Comcast has turned copy protection back on," I thought. Before calling Comcast, I decided to pop out my CableCARDs so I could write down their serial numbers, since others have posted in this thread that being able to tell Comcast the cards' serial numbers helps Comcast to activate the cards.

After powering down my S3, reading the serial numbers from the CableCARDs and powering my S3 back up, ... I can now view HBOHD just fine on both CableCARDs(!). My CableCARD settings are:

CableCARD 1:
Encryption: DES
Connected: yes, EnabledByCP: no
Auth: NOT_SUBSCRIBED
CA enable: not possible
Host Validation: Unknown 00
Copy Protection Key: Disabled
CCI: 0x02

CableCARD 2:
Encryption: DES
Connected: yes, EnabledByCP: yes
Auth: SUBSCRIBED
CA enable: possible
Host Validation: Unknown 00
Copy Protection Key: Disabled
CCI: 0x00

Obviously, CableCARD 1 looks like it shouldn't work at all, but it does(!?). Did Comcast recently disable copy protection again? Anyone know why I can view HBOHD again?


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Cablecard 2 is working because the channel it is on has no copy protection turned on. Cablecard 1 is probably NOT working (at least it shouldn't be based on the screens) and it only seems to work. Tivo is probably switching back to CC2 when you enter HBOHD since that is the card that's working. 

The only way to know if HBOHD works on both cablecards is to use the "Test channels" screen within the cablecard menus. Only one of your cards currently has copy protection turned on. The way to know is if the CCI screen has a number associated with it. 

CCI: 0x00 = Copy Protection is NOT enabled for the current channel that card is tuned to. 

CCI: 0x01 = Copy Protection IS enabled for the current channel that card is tuned to.


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## Kenji (Jun 29, 2003)

bareyb said:


> Cablecard 2 is working because the channel it is on has no copy protection turned on. Cablecard 1 is probably NOT working (at least it shouldn't be based on the screens) and it only seems to work. Tivo is probably switching back to CC2 when you enter HBOHD since that is the card that's working.


That made sense to me, so I went to test channels on both cards as you described. However, CC1 now says that it's enabled and subscribed like CC2 was earlier, and I haven't done anything since my last post. Since I can still view HBOHD, I guess I'll wait until it gets disabled again, then call Comcast. If it ain't broke, ...


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Well I just lost DHD and HBOHD AGAIN!!!!  
Called Comcrap and they can't fix it over the phone. I refused a truck roll since those guys don't know wtf they are doing anyway. Anyone else having more problems? God I wish I'd stayed with DirecTV...


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

bareyb said:


> Well I just lost DHD and HBOHD AGAIN!!!!
> Called Comcrap and they can't fix it over the phone. I refused a truck roll since those guys don't know wtf they are doing anyway. Anyone else having more problems? God I wish I'd stayed with DirecTV...


I'm in Antioch and just lost HBO HD.
This is ridiculous as I had to be only hold for 40 mins, then talk with an inept guy about cable cards for 30 more minutes. They can't get it working and have to schedule a truck roll, but the earliest time is over a week away. I'm pissed.


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## dprojoe (Nov 28, 2005)

Today 15 June 2007 I am expecting my 5th visit from Comcast Cable Techs to try and resolve my TIVO S3 HD CC Pairing / Validation issues which have prevented me from getting 90% of my Premium channels fro 6-8 weeks now. I am a Platinum customer so all Premium Channels 534-599, HD 732 & 736 are missing saying "Call Comcast Service Number". Attempts by all
Comcast Reps to fix this problem have failed. However prior to 6-8 weeks ago all my channels
worked just fine on my TIVO S3 HD Unit. Anyone have any knowledge of fixes that work?
dprojoe, Fremont CA


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

One thing you might try if you are completely at wits end is to swap CC#1 and CC#2, then call it in and provide the Host/Data/CC-NGC info to the rep. Make sure they read back all the #s. Make sure they verify the NGC # has the same CableCARD ID as your physical card says it has.

Make sure you get credit for the period of time you couldn't use your service to its fullest. It isn't much compared to the frustration you are dealing with, but they should at least acknowledge the trouble they put you through.


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## ampm99 (Feb 17, 2003)

Got my third Comcast Tech visit . Looked bad at the start since he wanted to check signal levels rather than cable card pairings. He also said set-top boxes are much better than cablecards. Did I want one?? 

I insisted he put a new card in but the first one didn't work. He wanted to check signal level again but I pushed him to put a 2nd card in. Even though my appointment specifically said I needed new cablecard, he only had 2 cards which he borrowed from another tech. 

After having Jason at the central office re-enter the serial, host & data info I heard " I see the problem" come through the phone. Apparently no one had bothered entering the data number on the bad card. 3 hits later ( 5 mins) all channels on all cards working fine. One month and 3 techs after reporting the problem 

Comcast is obviously trying to sabotage Tivo Cable card systems. They take bad cards and recycle them into customer pool, they don't stock enough cablecards for customers, they refuse to learn about Cable cards and they refuse to learn about TIVO


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## subat0mic (Jan 7, 2007)

got my *Copy Protection Key: Enabled* today. Really easy, great support over the phone at 1800comcast (the lady really knew what was going on)... 
turns out that the host and data was reversed between the two cards in their database...
i'm now getting

one question.

Card 1 says 
*HostValidation: Valid 01
CopyProtection Key: Enabled
*
Card 2 says 
*HostValidation: Valid 02
CopyProtection Key: Enabled
*

Previous to this fix, I couldnt watch Starwars Episode II on HBOHD, now I can (on both cards, tested)...

Is it ok that it says *Valid 01*?
Does anyone know what 01 and 02 mean??


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

subat0mic said:


> turns out that the host and data was reversed between the two cards in their database...


Wow, I'm amazed their programmer didn't do a validity check on the # of digits. The Host is 13 digits and the Data is 11 digits. Such an easy check, sloppy programming.


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## cgould (Dec 28, 2002)

So.. which field is which? So that WE can tell them what to put where?! 

They obviously can't tell the difference in their own system. From what previous CSRs said to me, it's not obvious to them either (which sounds really stupid, you'd think on their screen it would say "CableCard ID#: <enter>" and next line would be "HostID: <value>" etc, but seems like it's just a bunch of empty boxes.
Morons in their datacenter/app design I guess.
I've tried having them switch the cablecardID & UnitAddress #s but didn't do anything. I didn't want to mess w/ swapping cards 1 & 2 and generating completely new pairings, since all my other channels I do need were working.

I finally gave up on the pairing/validation, and thus any premium programming (not worth $18 a month for HBO anyway.)


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## sayonaraML (Jul 5, 2004)

I got my Series 3 last Wednesday and my 42" Vizio Plasma on Friday so was all set for Comcast to arrive yesterday morning. I had a 1:00 to 3:00 appointment for which the installer showed up at 1:30. Went right to work and after a half an hour, the channels were showing up just fine (golf in HDTV is wow!). I then had to repeat the Tivo set-up to get the correct channel and get programming information into the guide but it was pretty spotless. According to the installer the person he was dealing with on the other end of the phone was "really good" and that made a difference. Also that when cable cards are good they are great and when they aren't, they're a nightmare.
Peace to all!


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## ehsfriend (Jan 22, 2005)

I am in the midst of an install with Comcast - Redwood City Area.

Yesterday, Comcast tech came - he was good. But only 2 out of his 10 cards worked. Card 1 went in fine. Card 2 appeared to be OK at first as well.

Once the hits were sent, Card 2 was missing HBO and all non-analog channels. Card 1 got all channels, including premiums. The strange thing is that Card 2 (the one that is missing premiums - just a blank screen on any premium channel) shows "Valid" 10" but Card 1 (which actually gets premiums including HBO) shows "Validation: Unknown 00"

Here is what the Cards say:

CC1 (premiums work)
Encryption: DES
Auth: SUBSCRIBED
Host Validation: Unknown 00
Copy Proection: Disabled
CCI: 0x00

CC2 (no premiums)
State: Unknown
Host Validation: Valid 10
Copy Protection: Enabled
CCI: 0x03

Why is it that the card that gets premium channels is Unknown and the card that is missing premiums is Valid 10?

After 4 hours of verifying and re-verifying the #s with the dispatcher and trying 4 more cards, the tech gave up yesterday and I got a new truck roll for today .

What else should I have them try today? Card swap? New cards in both slots?


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## ivyvine420 (Mar 14, 2007)

This is a reply to the post below...

Your first card shows that it is Subscribed and all that, but while it says Host Validation as "unknown" it also has the Copy Protection Key as "Disabled" meaning it is *not* using the Copy Protection on it (therefore letting your encrypted channels through just fine).

Your 2nd card shows as Valid for the Host Validation, and the Copy Protection Key is "enabled" so it is using the Copy Protection on it, meaning you must have authorization to use the encrypted channels (which will decrypt for you with the "enabled" and "valid" lines), BUT your cablecard *does not* have (according to what you wrote down) the Authorization to actually watch and decrypt those channels (as it shows it as "unknown" - sometimes might say MISSING AUTH_KEY or something) and this part needs to say "Subscribed" just like it does with cablecard 1. 

This might change with time, I have had a card that would lose it "authorization" and then a few hours later have it back again... If not, then you need to call Comcast and get them to send some kind of hit (they have 4 different types they can send) to get this part to change. Make sure to tell them the section that is not correct, so that they can figure out which is the best "hit" to send to your card(s). 

The first card needs to get the "valid" for host validation to really be properly paired (though as long as it's working fine you can put it off if you wish), the "copy protection key" can say either enabled or disabled once you have it "valid" and all channels will (or should) come through. I have some missing premium channels (actually all of them now I think) for one of my cards, as it *does not* have the validation for it while the other card has "valid 05" and "disabled" for the copy protection key and all channels come through just fine. Your 2nd card just needs that authorization for the encrypted channels so that it also says "subscribed" instead of "unknown". Depending on the current and past states of the cable cards, you might have the lines that list "Connected:" with "Yes" or "No" afterwards, and on the same line, "EnabledByCP:" with "Yes" or "", and the next line having the "Auth(orized)": "SUBSCRIBED" and then next "CA enable:" as "Psossible" or "Not Possible". 

You would like (in a perfect world):

Unit Address: Some UA #s...
Other Unit Address #s
Encryption: DES
Connected: Yes, EnabledByCP: Yes
Auth: SUBSCRIBED
CA enable: possible
ECM PID: #s (I have 0x0436)
Component PIDs:
(I have 0x0980 0x0981 0x0982 0x0983 0x0000 0x0000)
Host Validation: Valid # (I have Valid 05)
Copy Protection Key: Enabled (I have disabled but it still has premiums come through possibly because of the CCI # below - I think)
CCI: 0x00

My other non-premium working card has this...

Unit Address #s: 3787549whatever (heh)
Encryption: DES
Connected: Yes, EnabledByCP: Yes
Auth: SUBSCRIBED
CA enable: Possible
ECM PID: 0x0436
Component PIDs: 0x0980 0x0981 0x0982 0x0983 0x0000 0x0000
Host Validation: Unknown 00
Copy Protection Key: Disabled
CCI: 0x00

If I could get that card to say "valid #" then it would work perfectly though CP Keys should still say Enabled and not Disabled...


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## ehsfriend (Jan 22, 2005)

Very helpful Ivy. 

After reading for months about this CC process here, I guess I shouldnt be surprised at how bad Comcast's systems are. The amazing thing to me is that according to my tech yesterday, Comcast just recycles the damaged CC's back into the pool every day. They wont allow techs to throw cards away and dont even have a system to flag the bad ones. SO the good techs have taken to marking bad cards with a pen so others know that they shouldnt be pulled. The tech yesterday told me he wont leave the warehouse without "at least 5 cards, usually 10" for a Tivo install. Amazing ineptitude on COmcast's part. Actually, let's call it what it is - they have no desire to work with Tivo on this and would much rather have people sign up for the Moto/Tivo boxes when they come out than for the S3 CC's - the federal CC laws be damned! 

Also, the tech yesterday told me (and someone else here mentioned in the past) that some 3rd party outsourcer "corrupted the database" a few weeks ago when the CPMS updates were happening.

Comcast just called and said the tech is running late (shocker) but the person on the phone said that he is one of the "lead engineers and field techs" in the Bay Area for Comcast and so it would be worth waiting for him.

Fingers crossed!


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

*Success!!!*

By reading ALL of the posts here....it's now working. Ok, just to recap, I am in Antioch and had everything working correctly when Comcast first came out to install the cable cards into my S3 two weeks ago. Then, all of a sudden a few days ago I lost my only premium channel: HBO. It's clear the problem is on _their _side.

So I called three times and read back all of the info after being on hold forever, including the serial numbers of the cable cards, and the host and data information for each card. Totally frustrating as they had all of the same information in their system read back to me correctly and they could only schedule a truck roll. It really pissed me off since I know if everything was originally working that they caused this on their end without a truck roll, and I just knew they could fix it without one as well.

However, in the Tivo S3 Cable card menu, under the "Conditional Access" menu, each one of my cards had the following:

Host Validation: *Unknown 00*
Copy Protection Key: *Disabled*

That tells me that they were never paired correctly.

So I call back, confirm all info _again_, *but this time I have them confirm the host info and make sure it's set for the proper card by reading the last four serial numbers for the card and the host*.

*I said, "Please make sure cable card XXXX is for host YYYY." *
I'm on hold for another 15 minutes, and they sent a "hit" to my S3, tuned to HBO and that did the trick.

With the rep still on the phone, I tuned to other channels and everything was OK.
I then went to the Cable Card menu and it said the following:

Cable Card #1
Host Validation: *Valid 04*
Copy Protection Key: Disabled

Cable Card #2
Host Validation: *Valid 04*
Copy Protection Key: Enabled (<--- only CC#2 shows "Enabled" for me)

Even though only CC#2 shows the copy protection key as "enabled", I can see HBO on both tuners without any problems.

On Comcast's screen they cannot differentiate between Cable Card 1 and Cable Card 2. So they may have all the info entered in correctly, but they mix up with host/date info for the wrong card.

So a big thanks to everyone sharing the info provided here! I was able to get it working, cancel my scheduled truck roll and get HBO back. Thanks to everyone, and hopefully this summary info will help someone else facing the same issue I had. :up:


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

My feeling is the majority of these failed/defective cards are actually problems with data entry and data synchronization in their back-end systems.

I simply cannot believe Motorola has a defective rate of 75-80% on these cards. It also doesn't make sense because there have been many people with cards that were not paired properly to eventually get them paired properly once they found a person who knew what was going on.

I'm sure there are some really defective cards out there, but the occurrence rate should be on the order of other defective electronics, low single digits, not 80%.


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## Kenji (Jun 29, 2003)

sfhub said:


> My feeling is the majority of these failed/defective cards are actually problems with data entry and data synchronization in their back-end systems.
> 
> I simply cannot believe Motorola has a defective rate of 75-80% on these cards. It also doesn't make sense because there have been many people with cards that were not paired properly to eventually get them paired properly once they found a person who knew what was going on.
> 
> I'm sure there are some really defective cards out there, but the occurrence rate should be on the order of other defective electronics, low single digits, not 80%.


I agree completely. I've worked in the computer industry for 26 years, and it's impossible for me to believe that so many cards are bad. And while every Comcast technician with whom I've dealt firsthand has been pleasant, it's clear after speaking with them and overhearing their conversations with the central office that they don't really understand how CableCARDs work, and don't want to. Too bad.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

And then add on top of all that the fact that the Comcast signal seems to "come and go" even when the cards ARE paired correctly. It's a total crapshoot if I EVER get HBOHD or DSCHD. Sometimes I got a week with "searching for signal" and sometimes I go a whole week where they come in fine. So getting the pairing right is still no guarantee you will get all your HD channels.


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## ehsfriend (Jan 22, 2005)

The neverending saga continues. Tech just called. He is now 2.5 hours late for his 10am - 2pm window. Unreal - wasted a whole weekend with these idiots. 

This almost makes me miss the old 6412. At least you could just plug it in and you knew that it generally would work in its own crappy way

Walked through each and every # (NG#, Host, Data, Unit) with the phone supervisor - all correct. Had him repeat them back even. 

He sent a Cable Card validation signal to card #2 and no change. He says the cards are "paired on their end"

Now wait for the tech and see if he can swap in a new card that works


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

Kenji said:


> I agree completely. I've worked in the computer industry for 26 years, and it's impossible for me to believe that so many cards are bad. And while every Comcast technician with whom I've dealt firsthand has been pleasant, it's clear after speaking with them and overhearing their conversations with the central office that they don't really understand how CableCARDs work, and don't want to. Too bad.


I agree completely as well.

The problem is on Comcast's data entry. There are two HUGE potential errors that can happen:
1. They enter the data incorrectly in their system.
2. They enter the data correctly, but apply the wrong host/data information to the opposite card. That right there would be a 50% failure rate, especially since it's been said in this forum (and confirmed on the phone with the CSR I spoke with) that the entry screeen does NOT say "Cable Card #1" and "Cable Card #2" so they are just assuming that the data they enter is for card 1, and so on.


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

ehsfriend said:


> He sent a Cable Card validation signal to card #2 and no change. He says the cards are "paired on their end"


On your cable card menu on your S3 for:

Host Validation: *Unknown 00*
Copy Proection: *Disabled*

What does it say, "Unknown 00"?


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## ehsfriend (Jan 22, 2005)

The Technical Operation Supervisor for the area was just here for over an hour (that's the title printed on his business card).

He was on his Nextel for an hour verifying #s. We swapped card 1 and card 2 and still no dice.

The Addressing guys are closed today but he told that he'll have a DAC hit sent to morrow and everything verified at the DAC.

Now I am left with basically where I was before, except Host Validation on the non-functional card changed from Valid 10, to Unknown 11 (but still getting the same limited slate of channels). That cant be good though (going from valid to unknown, that is).

CC1 (working):
Connected: Yes Enabled: Yes
Auth: Subscribed
Host Validation: Unknown 00
Copy Protection: Disabled
CCI: 0x00

CC2 (not getting most non-OTA or premium channels):
State: CA Disabled
Host Validation: Unknown 11
Copy Protection: Disabled
CC1: 0x03


Arrrrghhhh!! If the Technical Supervisor cant get this to work, I'm screwed.


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

Yeah, but there's no way they can say it's paired correctly if you're seeing Host Validation: Unknown 00. Just no way.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

I think they are really saying "we think we have entered the data correctly for pairing to occur"

In reality they may have entered the wrong #s.

They may have entered the right #s in the wrong fields.

They may have entered everything correctly and some other synchronization between systems is not happening correctly.

There could be other explanations as well.


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## subat0mic (Jan 7, 2007)

sfhub said:


> Wow, I'm amazed their programmer didn't do a validity check on the # of digits. The Host is 13 digits and the Data is 11 digits. Such an easy check, sloppy programming.


that's not quite what i meant... I was being way too abstract it seems...

really, I meant, one of the 2 fields i had mentioned was swapped between the two cards... 
nothing as painful as mismatched lengths or anything.


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## subat0mic (Jan 7, 2007)

sfhub said:


> My feeling is the majority of these failed/defective cards are actually problems with data entry and data synchronization in their back-end systems.
> 
> I simply cannot believe Motorola has a defective rate of 75-80% on these cards. It also doesn't make sense because there have been many people with cards that were not paired properly to eventually get them paired properly once they found a person who knew what was going on.
> 
> I'm sure there are some really defective cards out there, but the occurrence rate should be on the order of other defective electronics, low single digits, not 80%.


comcast really should open this data for editing through their website, so that we can view/submit/correct this data manually. would be much less problems this way. not sure if there's security concerns. but would be convenient, since I trust my own eyes much more than some telemarketer's... (and then wouldn't be playing some "telephone game" with them)...

I have to wonder if comcast operators are instructed to swap the IDs between the cards - to make Tivo3 people feel less happy with their box... conspiricy theory i know. but how can it be so hard to enter data in-order that I give it to them?


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## ivyvine420 (Mar 14, 2007)

Just so you can see how things can change from day to day with cablecard info, last night my info changed again on it's own.

My card that was "valid 04" and "disabled" for the Copy Protection Key now says "enabled" for the CP Key section. Also, the ECM PID # will constantly change for both cards, sometimes they seem to match on both cards and sometimes not. When this # changes, then the 0x0000 (whatever they end up listing) also change.

My second cablecard now is the way it should be with everything, while my first has lost it's "EnabledByCP: Yes" status (now says no yet AGAIN) and while it is still subscribed, it has the CA enable as NOT POSSIBLE instead of the (wanted) "possible" status.

Today my (now 3rd Series 3 unit) replacement will be delivered (I hope) as well as my new DT Series 2, so I can set up the Series 2 to get all my necessary shows (and the ones I like to keep and transfer to computer etc) and play around with the cablecards in the new S3 unit. This hopefully will show if there is a problem with my (current) S3 unit from having *both* cards being totally "Valid" at the same time as over the past month or so, we have only successfully been able to get one card at a time to do this (but in both slots at different times).

Comcast said to try a new tivo unit and test this out before being able to say that it was something on Comcast's end (as we had tried anything and everything up to that point)... So I will be able to leave more posts on my progress on this and also just how quickly it might get to work on the new S3 (if it does). Of course, I will again mention that I had no problems with missing channels or anything until the Copy Protection Management System *was* turned on (enabled), which makes me think that they should be turning it OFF again until they can be totally sure that they aren't missing something/doing something wrong on their end and that they have cablecards to send out that are *good* and that aren't already paired or registered or whatever to another TV/tivo/household already...


*Tries to sit patiently for UPS to show up with packages from Tivo Online Store and Costco*


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

ivyvine420 said:


> Just so you can see how things can change from day to day with cablecard info, last night my info changed again on it's own.
> 
> My card that was "valid 04" and "disabled" for the Copy Protection Key now says "enabled" for the CP Key section. Also, the ECM PID # will constantly change for both cards, sometimes they seem to match on both cards and sometimes not. When this # changes, then the 0x0000 (whatever they end up listing) also change.


The ECM PID and the Component PIDs change depending on which channel you are watching.

From my experience, the CableCARD numbering in the S3 is a little confusing.

CableCARD2 has CA info for "Input 0"
CableCARD1 has CA info for "Input 1"

I've found what TiVo refers to as CableCARD2, in the CableCARD config menu, displays the CA info for the channel that is tuned on what the UI refers to as "Input 0" (ie the input names that show up when you use TiVoStatus backdoor SPS-IR-S)

I do not know if this is the case all the time, or some mapping occurs after initial bootup and that mapping is persistent throughout a particular boot session. However during testing without rebooting, it was consistently as described.

The ECM PID and Component PIDs info are only valid/updated when you are tuned to a channel that is encrypted. If a particular input is tuned to a channel that isn't encrypted, the CA info for the associated CableCARD will display the ECM PID and Component PIDs for the last encrypted channel that was tuned for that CableCARD.

The only fields I think you should be worried about are:
*Connected:yes, EnabledByCP:yes
Host Validation: Valid ##*
Once you get those setup properly, everything else should work, or should be relatively easy to fix.

The rest of the fields below "Connected" vary between channels or sometimes will display previous information.

The CA screen will display
*Auth: NOT_SUBSCRIBED
CA enable: not possible*
for *both* channels you don't subscribe to *and* for ClearQAM channels. It should not worry you unless you are not receiving a channel you are supposed to be getting.

I scanned the HD channels available in my area and *only* CinemaxHD and ShowtimeHD had CCI=0x02. The rest of the HD channels (including HBO-HD and StarzHD) had CCI=0x00. What that means (if your area matches mine) is CPMS (copy protection) problems will only affect CinemaxHD and ShowtimeHD. Even if your cards are not paired properly, as long as they are activated, you will receive HBO-HD and StarzHD without problems. On the other hand, even if you receive those channels, it doesn't say anything about your pairing status. You could receive HBO-HD fine, but not receive CinemaxHD. If that is the case, you have a pairing problem and your area has enabled CPMS (non-zero CCI for the problematic channel)

--

Here is a summary of the fields on the S3 Conditional Access diagnostic screen (*for Motorola CableCARDs*):

*Unit Address* - this is the CabelCARD UnitAddress as listed in the Pairing Menu. The 1st line is the hex equivalent of the middle 10 digits of the Unit Address. The 2nd line is the decimal UnitAddress exactly the same as the Pairing Menu.

*Encryption* - this is the form of encryption and presumably could change both based on Head-End configuration and tuned channel but would likely be constantly fixed as DES for our area.

*Connected:yes, EnabledByCP:yes* - these values are fixed for a particular card and do not vary as you change channels. Connected:yes probably means the CableCARD is receiving information from the Head-End, meaning it is working. EnabledByCP:yes probably means the card has been activated by Comcast and you will be able to received encrypted channels with CCI=0x00, but receiving encrypted channels with CCI=non-zero would require further that the pairing is done properly

*Auth* - this value changes depending on which channel you are tuned to and can have values SUBSCRIBED or NOT_SUBSCRIBED. If your cable package does not include access to a particular channel it should show up as NOT_SUBSCRIBED. However please do not get overly concerned about this field because if you are tuned to a ClearQAM unencrypted channel, it will also show NOT_SUBSCRIBED. The times when it should say SUBSCRIBED is when you are tuned to an encrypted channel that you are supposed to receive.

*CA enable* - this value changes depending on which channel you are tuned to and can have values "possible" or "not possible". It appears that channels that have Auth: SUBSCRIBED get CA enable "possible" and Auth: NOT_SUBSCRIBED get CA enable "not possible" but I imagine there could be situations where they fall out of lock step. I believe CA enable actually corresponds to the channel being encrypted, which is a precursor to Conditional Access enabling being possible.

*ECM PID* - this value changes depending on which channel you are tuned to. It is only valid for encrypted channels. If you tune to a ClearQAM channel, ECM PID will retain the value of the previously tuned encrypted channel. ECM stands for Entitlement Control Message and PID stands for Packet ID. ECMs contain control words for descrambling authorized services.

*Component PIDs* - these values change depending on which channel you are tuned to. They are only valid for encrypted channels. If you tune to a ClearQAM channel, Component PIDs will retain the value of the previously tuned encrypted channel. Component PIDs are probably additional Packet IDs required in the decryption process.

*Host Validation* - this value is fixed/constant for a particular CableCARD. Values range from "Unknown ##" to "Valid ##". It indicates the "pairing" status of the particular CableCARD. If your area has enabled CPMS (ie it has channels with non-zero CCI values) this is the critical field you want to look at. To view a channel with a non-zero CCI value (CCI stands for Copy Control Information) your CableCARD must be paired properly. Pairing is often confused with the ability to view encrypted channels. A card simply needs to be "EnabledByCP" to view encrypted channels (with CCI=0x00). However to view an encrypted channel with non-zero CCI value, your CableCARD must be paired properly, ie it must have a "Valid ##" value for "Host Validation". One reason why pairing leads to so much confusion is because very few channels have non-zero CCI values even after Comcast in our area enabled CPMS. A quick scan revealed that of the HD channels, only CinemaxHD and ShowtimeHD had CCI=0x02. The rest of the HD channels had CCI=0x00 So even if your pairing is broken, you may not notice any problem if you do not view CinemaxHD and ShowtimeHD regularly. However, please be aware that if your pairing is broken, the potential to bite you is always there. The reason is Comcast may choose to enable CPMS on more channels in the future. If it does so on a channel you do care about, you will not be able to view or record that channel. This would not be a desirable situation, expecially if you were on vacation when it happened. The pairing process appears to be hit or miss. If you get the "good" CSR that knows what is happening it can be a 5 minute process of reading out information to the CSR. If you get the "wrong" CSR, it could result in days or even weeks of frustration with multiple "hits", truck rolls, bags of defective CableCARDs, etc. Pairing for S3 is discussed separately in many locations of this thread and will not be covered here.

*Copy Protection Key* - this value changes depending on which channel you are tuned to and can have values "Enabled" and "Disabled". If you are tuned to a channel with non-zero CCI and your Host Validation is "Valid ##" then the Copy Protection Key will say "Enabled", otherwise it will say "Disabled"

*CCI* - this value changes depending on which channel you are tuned to and can have values 0x00, 0x01, 0x02, and 0x03 (there could be other values, but these are the most common). CCI stands for Copy Control Information. A non-zero CCI value indicates that CPMS (Copy Protection Management System) has been enabled in your area. It is enabled on a per channel basis. A recent scan indicated that of the HD channels, only CinemaxHD and ShowtimeHD had non-zero CCI (CCI=0x02) so those are the channels that will be affected by broken pairing (Host Validation "Unknown ##")

--

*Please note, it appears that the S3 has non-intuitive correlation between CableCARD1/2 and what the S3 considers Input0 and Input1.

CableCARD1 corresponds to Input1
CableCARD2 corresponds to Input0*

This could lead to confusion when viewing the conditional access screen vis-a-vis what was tuned on the S3 because most folks would probably assume CableCARD1 corresponds to Input0 and CableCARD2 corresponds to Input1.

*What is CPMS and why is it causing so much trouble?*
The cable system has various different category of channels.

ClearQAM channels are viewable by any device with a QAM tuner, because the channels are not encrypted. This is usually the HD locals like NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX, PBS, etc. and also periodically some of the higher value channels like ESPN, HBO, etc. *if* they are doing temporary reconfiguration or there is a free preview period.

Next there are the standard encrypted channels. If you install a CableCARD, once it is "EnabledByCP" it will allow your device to decrypt these encrypted channels (assuming you are authorized to do so by your cable package). Once the CableCARD decrypts these channels it will pass them on to your Host (ie your TiVo S3) in the clear, *unless* CPMS is enabled.

Finally there are encrypted channels with CPMS enabled (ie non-zero CCI) values. CCI=0x00 means copy freely, so after the CableCARD decrypts the channels, there really isn't any reason to re-encrypt the streams. However if the content producer (or the cable company) asserts non-zero CCI values, then they are specifying restrictions on how the content can be used. In this case (CCI=non-zero), the CableCARD must re-encrypt the data streams so that these content restrictions can be enforced. This process of re-encryption from CableCARD to Host (TiVo S3) is what requires pairing to be done properly.

What is happening for most of your encrypted channels is TiVo gets the stream, sees it is encrypted, opens a session to the CableCARD, passes the encrypted data, and gets back an unencrypted stream, which it can then display or store.

Now when the channel has a non-zero CCI value, then the CableCARD will decrypt the data, but will also re-encrypt it using Host (TiVo S3) specific information. This requires the pairing to be properly done. If pairing is not properly done, then the re-encryption cannot occur and you will not be able to view the channel. This is the problem people are seeing with CinemaxHD and ShowtimeHD (HD channels with non-zero CCI) when Comcast enables CPMS. This also explains why many of the other encrypted channels have no problems.

--

I just wrote this up quickly from scratch, so it is quite possible I have included some incorrect information. Please feel free to post corrections and I will update the info. Hopefully this helps folks that are having problems, with CPMS, debug what is going on.


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## subat0mic (Jan 7, 2007)

sfhub said:


> CableCARD1 corresponds to Input1
> CableCARD2 corresponds to Input0


could this be why they keep reversing the data between the cards in their system?
hmmm....


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

subat0mic said:


> could this be why they keep reversing the data between the cards in their system?
> hmmm....


From what I can tell the bottom CableCARD physical slot is CableCARD1 and the top is CableCARD2 just as you would expect. Also the CableCARD test/config screens appear labeled correctly.

It is just the TiVo app has this concept of tuner0 and tuner1 when you enable TiVo status backdoor using Select-Play-Select-InstantReplay-Select. The labeling on the status line seems confusing (at least to me) because tuner0 corresponds to CableCARD2 and tuner1 corresponds to CableCARD1.


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## ivyvine420 (Mar 14, 2007)

Just a random thought about the tuner # and matching cablecard #...

I have always remembered the correct order for the 2 as I keep in mind that Cablecard 1 matches to Tuner1. Then since you want to match the other 2 up, tuner0 goes with Cablecard 2. One reason for this might be due to simple computer technology... 

Since alot of items with many slots might start off with #0 and then go up from there 1+ etc, zero is the first number used. Since the bottom slot is for cablecard 1 and then the top one for #2, you might think that they would name the tuners from bottom to top, but this is naturally the reverse order of doing something like this (we naturally, in English and in the USA, read from left to right and go from top to bottom). So naming top card (#2) as Tuner 0 and bottom card (#1) as Tuner 1 makes sense. And while it ends up with them being reversed from what you would think (both going top to bottom, tuner 0 = cablecard 1 & tuner 1 = cablecard 2), it does help you to remember them in the way that #1 will always match #1 and the second is either one above or below in # (0 or 2).

Now as for what sfhub wrote up (which is very nice to have, thank you for spending the time to do that), is that the information you have been taking from the diagnostics screen for each tuner or just straight from the corresponding cablecard screen (the conditional access screen)? I have changed channels to try and get the conditional access screen to change things depending on what channel I was currently on and it wasn't changing anything that I could see. I usually only see changes in this screen every few days or so. Of course, I have been having problems with my cablecards (or at least one of them) and so this might have something to do with it all...

I did have my Series 2 DT 180hr tivo show up today, but my replacement Series 3 from Costco didn't get delivered : ( It will be here tomorrow as it got to the final UPS destination Sunday morning, I have no idea why it didn't get put out on the truck today with the other package. 

So I will be able to transfer the cablecards from one S3 to the other and transfer my service and activate the gift service on the other box too. I have a feeling it's going to take a month before I can send in the series 3 back to Costco as I have way too much stuff on it that I need to watch before I can do so (good thing they have a "return at any time" policy, heh).


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

ivyvine420 said:


> Now as for what sfhub wrote up (which is very nice to have, thank you for spending the time to do that), is that the information you have been taking from the diagnostics screen for each tuner or just straight from the corresponding cablecard screen (the conditional access screen)? I have changed channels to try and get the conditional access screen to change things depending on what channel I was currently on and it wasn't changing anything that I could see.


I turned on Select-Play-Select-InstantReplayt-Select so I could see which tuner was tuned to what.

Next I independently changed tuner0 only to various HD and SD digital channels, checking CableCARD1/2 conditional access screens until I was confident tuner0 only affected CableCARD2 (actually at first I was looking only at CableCARD1, but it never changed, so I started checking both, at which time I realized tuner0 was bound to CableCARD2)

I redid parts of the testing with tuner1, leaving tuner0 alone. Then I tested changing tuner0 and tuner1 at the same time and the results were as expected.

As long as I tuned ClearQAM channels, the CableCARDs both retained their previous ECM and Component PIDs values (as expected). Once I started tuning encrypted channels the ECM and Component PIDs values changed as I changed channels. Sometimes different channels have common ECM and Component PID values. For example, HBO/Cinemax have the same ECM/Component PIDs. There was a difference though in that Cinemax had CCI=0x02 so the Copy Protection Key was enabled. Similarly Starz and Showtime had the same ECM/Component PIDs. I isolated tuner0 to HBO and tuner1 to Cinemax, then changed each independently to confirm the ECM/Component PIDs were actually changing when I changed channels and it wasn't just retention of previous values.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

ivyvine420 said:


> Since alot of items with many slots might start off with #0 and then go up from there 1+ etc, zero is the first number used. Since the bottom slot is for cablecard 1 and then the top one for #2, you might think that they would name the tuners from bottom to top, but this is naturally the reverse order of doing something like this (we naturally, in English and in the USA, read from left to right and go from top to bottom). So naming top card (#2) as Tuner 0 and bottom card (#1) as Tuner 1 makes sense. And while it ends up with them being reversed from what you would think (both going top to bottom, tuner 0 = cablecard 1 & tuner 1 = cablecard 2), it does help you to remember them in the way that #1 will always match #1 and the second is either one above or below in # (0 or 2).


Yah, just like Little and Big Endian we can adjust as appropriate, it is just nice when someone tells you ahead of time which Endian system to use


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## ehsfriend (Jan 22, 2005)

Update on my issue from a few weeks ago - 2nd CC not receiving premium channels.

Well today was the 4th truck roll and I got an awesome tech. He swapped the non-working card with a new M-Mode CC and called in the #s and it paired within a couple of minutes of the hit.

He said that Comcast Bay Area has switched to M-Mode cards only since they have found them to be more reliable - even in S3 Tivos that cant take advantage of the full features of the M-Mode.

Also, the menu for CC#2 in Tivo has some different items than the menu for CC#1 (the S-Mode card). The conditional access screen also looks totally different for the M-Mode card. If anyone is interested the specifics, I can post them here.

I'm up and running on both CCs after nearly a month of frustration.

Also, the tech said that he just went to the house of one of the "senior execs from Tivo" (I live in the Menlo Park/Palo Alto area, so this is possible). He said that the exec had a new beta model of the next version of the S3 (the tech called it the S4). He said it only had 1 CC slot and it was a front-loading slot for an M-Card.

If this is true, very interesting. He also said that this exec had 5 S3 tivos in their house.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

ehsfriend said:


> Also, the menu for CC#2 in Tivo has some different items than the menu for CC#1 (the S-Mode card). The conditional access screen also looks totally different for the M-Mode card. If anyone is interested the specifics, I can post them here.


Please post, there is interest.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Just when I was about to throw my S3's out the window, they started working again! I dare to say (I hope I don't jinx it) that both of my units have been working almost flawlessly for about two weeks now. 

The whole thing seemed to change when I added a 10 dB amp (which actually made things worse) and removed it. While I was down there fiddling with the wires I removed the "Ground Loop Breaker" that I had had to install myself to get rid of lines running up and down the screen. I removed it and the picture was fine without it. So SOMETHING Comcast did got rid of that particular problem. 

Upon further investigation I found they had installed a "Ground Block" outside that probably made the Ground Breaker redundant. Either way, once I removed the Ground Loop Breaker things have been all but perfect. It could just be a coincidence and I just happen to be on lucky streak, but I thought I'd put it out there anyway in case anyone with Pixelation problems and audio droputs has any wiring they can clean up. It SEEMS to have helped mine a LOT. I wasn't able to get DHD, HBOHD, (searching for signal) and had constant dropouts and pixilation on my HD channels. Now I get an occasional pixilation(maybe one or two a DAY vs. one or two every couple of minutes) but the audio dropouts seem to be gone. At least for now.... 

I'll keep you posted. Now that I posted that it's working great it'll probably go south on me...


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## ehsfriend (Jan 22, 2005)

sfhub said:


> Please post, there is interest.


So the old S-Mode card has the following Menu items on Tivo:

CC Pairing
Network Setup
CC Status
Conditional Access
IP Service

The new M-Mode card has the following menu items (in this order):

Conditional Access
CC Status
Network Setup
CC Pairing
DSG
Interactive Info

Conditional Access, CC Status, Network Setup, and CC Pairing have the same info in general but laid out in a totally different manner. The Conditional Access screen has changed the most for the M_Mode card.

It now just shows:

Unit Address:
Encryption: DES
Con: Yes EBCP: Yes Val: ? 0x01

Pairing has an extra line:
eCM MAC: ------

DSG shows:
DSG/DOCSIS Screen: In OOB Mode

Interactive shows:

IP Adress:0.0.0.0
UPM Address:
DPM ID:
USP ID:
DSP: Unconfigured
USP: No Msg
Sign on Status: uknown
ACK timeout 0 msec
Cell Abort Count: 0 (Max = 0)
MAC Abort Count: 0 (Max = 0)

So a bunch of new stuff that seems related to 2 way communication of the new M-mode cards (I think).


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## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

Thanks much for typing all that in. And thanks for the second-hand description of the "S4".


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## oldskoolboarder (Jul 8, 2003)

Does anyone know when we'll get the new Comcast HD channels?


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Could you provide a reference to which channels you are talking about?


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## oldskoolboarder (Jul 8, 2003)

sfhub said:


> Could you provide a reference to which channels you are talking about?


http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6461118.html

A&E HD, 
Food Network HD, 
Home & Garden Television HD
National Geographic Channel HD.

Somehow I recall that we already get NGHD.


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

That article was about Chicago. This thread is SF Bay Area. Did you see somewhere that Comcast announced those channels for the SF Bay systems?


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## oldskoolboarder (Jul 8, 2003)

mportuesi said:


> That article was about Chicago. This thread is SF Bay Area. Did you see somewhere that Comcast announced those channels for the SF Bay systems?


Understood. Hence why I asked if anyone knew if SF would be getting those channels.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

oldskoolboarder said:


> A&E HD,
> National Geographic Channel HD.
> 
> Somehow I recall that we already get NGHD.


You are right, NGCHD is ch 715, AETVHD is 718.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

sfhub said:


> You are right, NGCHD is ch 715, AETVHD is 718.


I get those as well. No Food or HGTV in HD though.


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## sammydee (Sep 24, 2006)

btwyx said:


> I get those as well. No Food or HGTV in HD though.


I'm actually irritated by NGC"HD", since I don't recall EVERY seeing any "HD" on it. Do they actually show any? When?


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## hoopsfan (Aug 5, 2007)

My first post here- great resource for consumers!

I assume this is a blatant error but wanted to check for other customer experience on this before complaining to Comcast.

I'm a customer in San Mateo CA office though apparently routed through Foster City Comcast office (I have 94403 zip). 

I already had two TV locations with Comcast boxes and Tivo2's attached, and HD service (through the Comcast box) on one of them. The relevant monthly charges for this setup, beyond the digital package:
- High Definition TV $7.00
- Digital Addl Outlet $6.99 (I assume this is box rental)

I put in a Tivo3 in a third location (a contractor ran the cable), installed Cablecards with the typical minor hiccups (one bad card) but not too bad compared to the stories I've seen here. Comcast installer knew what he was doing- plugged in both cards at once but it didn't seem to matter. 

So I got the first bill and found these monthly charges including the previous services which I'm still getting:
- High Definition TV $7.00
- Digital Addl Outlet $6.99

and new charges:
- Dual C-Card Dig Access $1.79
- HDTV Additional Service $7.00
- HDTV Additional Service $7.00
- Digital Addl Outlet $6.99
- Digital Addl Outlet $6.99

So I'm getting charged an additional $29.77 per month for putting in the Tivo 3. I was assuming I'd just be paying $1.79 per month for the second cable card (they said one was free), or else $6.99 for the 'additional outlet' (even though there's no new box) plus $1.79. The double 'HDTV additional service' seems particularly bogus- has anybody else seen this charge? Any experience with Bay Area Comcast on this billing practice would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Hoopsfan


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

The $6.99 charge is for each additional digital outlet. Sometime the outlet is defined as display device. Sometimes it is defined as receiver equipment. It isn't very clear and you'll get different definitions depending on who you speak to at Comcast.

So basically it is a "service fee" (to mirror your digital service on another outlet) that happens to include free equipment bundled in. With each digital additional outlet, you can choose an STB or CableCARD as your free equipment. It doesn't make sense to me that you should be charged the same additional outlet fee whether your "free" equipment is a $300 STB or a $90 CableCARD, but that is what Comcast has come up with.

Your "free" STB is just a standard def STB and if you wanted a HiDef STB, you would pay the HDTV equipment fee of $7. However recently for some people Comcast has been claiming the HDTV equipment fee is actually a HDTV "service" fee, thus you must pay that even if provide your own equipment and just need a CableCARD for decryption. If you argue that your TV is not capable of displaying HD so why should you be paying for it, it falls on deaf ears. However there are folks, either due to luck or getting the right CSR, who are not paying any HDTV fee and are just paying the A/O and CableCARD fees.

So bottom line is the billing situation can potentially get complicated if you get the wrong CSR. In your situation I think you will have no problem getting one A/O and one HDTV Additional Service fee removed.

In reality I think you should only be charged one A/O and one Dual-C-Card and no other fees, but you may have difficulty convincing them to remove the second HDTV addtional service fee. They don't charge that fee if you get their HD DVR because they claim it is bundled into the fee already. That means that of the $11.95 you pay for the HD DVR from Comcast, $7 is for HDTV additional service, and only $4.95 is for the DVR. Personally I think they are just playing a numbers shell game to ding you when you provide your own equipment.


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## jbrasure (Jan 1, 2007)

I live in Belmont, and I had a similar problem. It took me 3 months to straighten it out. Comcast credited my account for the wrong charges.

Here are the points to keep in mind when talking to Comcast:

1) You should be charged for "High Definition" once, no matter how many outlets you have.

2) You should only be charged "Digital Addl Outlet" once for each cable box that you have. A Tivo S3 doesn't count as a cable box, so you should not have this charge for your Tivo.

In short, you are correct: Comcast is charging you too much. You should call them to straighten it out. Don't be surprised if it takes them a few tries to fix it.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

jbrasure said:


> 1) You should be charged for "High Definition" once, no matter how many outlets you have.
> 
> 2) You should only be charged "Digital Addl Outlet" once for each cable box that you have. A Tivo S3 doesn't count as a cable box, so you should not have this charge for your Tivo.
> 
> In short, you are correct: Comcast is charging you too much. You should call them to straighten it out. Don't be surprised if it takes them a few tries to fix it.


Based on the rate sheet that was submitted to my franchise authority, for my area, you are only supposed to be charged High Definition *if* you have High Definition equipment leased from Comcast. I only have one "High Definition" charge listed on the rate sheet and it is listed under equipment leases.

However, I have found it doesn't matter what is printed, the people you talk to often make stuff up as they go along. Once in a while you get a good CSR that understands what to charge. There are some folks with S3s which have no HD fees and then there are folks who had none for a while, then had it added recently out of the blue, but have been unsuccessful in removing it.

The most common explanation (which I do not agree with) for Digital Addl Outlet I have gotten is that your package includes 1 outlet. Each additional equipment you add is an additional outlet. With your outlet you get a choice of 1 free included equipment, which you can choose to be an STB or a CableCARD. If you need a 2nd CableCARD for the same device, then it is $1.79.

I am of the opinion, just as you are, that additional outlet fees should only be applicable if you get an STB from Comcast, because it is essentially an equipment fee which they chose to label as a service fee. However, in my experience it takes many calls to get someone who agrees with this interpretation and it is far more common to get the interpretation in the previous paragraph.

If you have convinced them that TiVo's should never be charged an ADO regardless of any combination of equipment then you are better off than many people in the bay area and should consider yourself fortunate. It probably wasn't easy to accomplish that.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

In Milpitas, I get billed (in addition to the expected programming package fees):

Dual C-card Dig Access $1.79 -- for the second cable card for the S3
Digital Addl Outlet $6.99 -- for a standard def set top box used with a Series2

That's it. No High Definition charge. The "High Definition" charge is listed in the price list they sent me as an "Equipment charge" for their HD set top box. But Comcast may not have a uniform billing policy in the SF Bay Area, so YMMV.


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## hoopsfan (Aug 5, 2007)

Thanks to all for your info. Went into Comcast office and wound up with corrected billing similar to the recent comments- new monthly billing for the Tivo3 is now

- $6.95 for additional outlet
- $1.79 for the second cablecard

Second AO charge and both the 'additional HD service' charges went away. I was not able to remove the first AO charge, but I'm way happier than I was a few days ago. I'll keep watching these boards to see if this AO charge is getting challenged with success by more people or by FCC.

Cheers


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