# Triple LNB and Multiswitch Problem!



## uberstein (Jul 4, 2003)

I just set up my new Triple LNB for my locals...
I have 2 Dtivos each needing 2 lines of course...

I HAD a dual LNB running to a 8 way multiswitch...

I took the existing 2 lines and connected them to 
the new 3 LNB with built in multiswitch 4 output connection
dish and got good signal strength for all satellites....

But in the final tivo setup stage I got a bunch of
connection errors and not detecting 110/119 errors.

I then took the two lines off the mulitiswitch and
and connected them directly to the tivo lines of
one of the receivers and it works fine.

What am I missing?

I checked the noob board but am still lost. I got this...

8. What about multiswitches with Elliptical dishes? If you have the oval dish with two "dual LNBs" (4 cables), each of the Dual LNB's look at different satellites (101 degree and 119 degree satellites). A multiswitch is needed to see the second satellite. A multiswitch comes with the dish and is usually have 4 outputs. Multiswitches for elliptical dishes need to have 4 inputs so it can switch between the 4 LNBs rather than the 2 in the explaination in #7 above

Do I need that 4 Input multi switch?
I does not mention a triple LNB or is that "dual" the same thing


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Yes, you will need a 4 input multi-switch.

There are 4 distinct signals that can come out of a phase III dish.
When you hook directly to the dish, that wire can carry any one of the 4 signals. But only 1. Which is fine with a direct connection.

When a multiswitch is put into the mix, you have to make sure the multi-switch can get all 4 signals from the dish itself. Thus you need to have 4 wires coming from the dish to the multiswitch.

The multiswitch will then lock in on 1 of each of the 4 signals, per wire.
Then when a reciever makes the request for one of those signals, the multiswitch is smart enough to route the proper signal down that wire, or all the wires, if all 8 are asking for the same signal.

The original 4 feeds to the dish don't change, and never have to.

Triple LNB is refering to the number of hockey puck sized recievers that are on the physical dish.

Older terminology Single and Dual LNB, refered to the number of cables that could be hooked directly to that single hockey puck that was there on the first and second generation of dishes.

Here in the forums we try to refer to the number of wires coming out of the dish, and the size (oval or round) or by the PHASE III nomenclature.

So..... to fix your issue.
You will need to run the other two lines, and get yourself a 4x8 multiswitch, if you want to see the 110 and 119 on all your boxes. Else you are risking damage of your TiVo's, Dish, and existing multiswitch.


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## rptally (Jun 26, 2002)

I have the same problem. The dish is oval, 3 LNB's and all 4 wires coming out of the satellite dish have been plugged into a 5x8 multiswitch. If the TiVo uses one of the 4 directly then all three satellites work fine. If I take all 4 wires and plug them into a 5x8 multiswitch only the 101 sat is seen and the others have errors. Can anyone give me a way to make this work?


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by rptally _
> *I have the same problem. The dish is oval, 3 LNB's and all 4 wires coming out of the satellite dish have been plugged into a 5x8 multiswitch. If the TiVo uses one of the 4 directly then all three satellites work fine. If I take all 4 wires and plug them into a 5x8 multiswitch only the 101 sat is seen and the others have errors. Can anyone give me a way to make this work? *


Is the multi-switch cascadable? Post the model number if you are not sure. Not all switches are compatible with the built in multi-switch on the triple LNB dish and your symptoms would be the result. I believe there are tone injectors you can add to make the switch work correctly but I am not certain.

edit: take a look at number 11 in the Multi-switch FAQ

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55509


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## rptally (Jun 26, 2002)

The multiswitch was part of my new house. It is a UStec 5x8 Multiswitch CX-DSS58 and is "HDTV compatible". Has anyone made this work with a phase III dish?


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## Want1394 (Oct 4, 2001)

rptally,

No, the switch you have is an old-style switch and only works with the old dishes where the connections are directly to the LNB's, not to another multiswitch as is integrated into the new Phase III dish. You will need a new switch. A call to tech support at DirecTV may get you a free one installed. (Who installed your dish?)

Detailed info is here:
http://www.ustecnet.com/pdf/install/CXHDA58.pdf


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

Want 1394 is correct.


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## rptally (Jun 26, 2002)

Thank you for the information. However, the document says:

Kit Contents
1 CX-DSS58 HDTV Multiswitch

This is the multiswitch that I have. FYI, the install was a DirectTV contractor.


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## outerlimits (May 24, 2003)

Check comments by Want1394.

That multiswitch will not work with your Triple LNB Dish. You need a multiswitch that is specifically built for the Triple LNB Dish output (this dish has a multiswitch built in)

Where did you get the Triple LNB Dish?


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## thaspot (Oct 20, 2003)

I had to retire my old multiswitch when I upgraded my dish. Bummer, but it had to be done.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

That old multiswitch would work for the older style oval dish that had separate LNBs and no integrated switch. The 101 sat LNB connects to Sat A inputs and the 110/119 Sat to the Sat B inputs. You could get that switch to work with the newer oval dish which has an integrated multiswitch be inserting a 22kHz signal generator in each line to the Sat B inputs of the older switch.


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## Nuwanda (Oct 14, 2002)

Anyone know if the Dynex DX-MS101 will work with my oval dish? I hope so, since I already told my wife we could add another TV/TiVo downstairs, bringing my total number of connections I need to 6. Since I currently only have four, this will be very bad for me if I was incorrect. 

Nuwanda the Neutron Manipulator

1 x Sony SAT-T60 (146 hours)
2 x RCA DVR-40's (OEM) - Maybe...lol


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## rptally (Jun 26, 2002)

Based upon your feedback last night, I went to Tweeters in Frisco and bought a Terk BMS-58 multi-switch and bypassed the US Tec multi-switch. The result was that my TiVo's are very happy now able to see all 3 satellites on both inputs and I'm able to view HD channels with my Hughes HD box. Another nice suprise was that the signal strength that was in the low 92's to 94's is now rock solid at 100%. 

http://www.terk.com/pdfs/BMS58.pdf

Thank you all for your help and information!


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## edward3132 (Oct 8, 2003)

rptally

Glad you got eveything working. The Terk BMS-58 works great but it is overpriced usually at most retail outlets (approx. $150). On many sites on the internet it can be had for $70-80. A google search will bring up several. You have spent enough already for a system that was not as advertised. It is hard to believe UStec advertises this part as HDTV compatable.


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## RDJR (Mar 27, 2001)

I have two lines running from my Phase 3 to the ms in the basement and one line from the Phase 3 running directly to my HD receiver. 3 Dtivo's from the ms and my HD receiver straight from the dish all work like a charm.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

The key is whatever multiswitch you have it must be *cascadable*.


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## Deano (Mar 21, 2002)

I currently have a 18x24 dish with the four outputs from the LNBs running directly to a Spaun SMS5802NF multiswitch. Can I install one of the new Triple LNBs with integrated multiswitch and run those 4 outputs to the Spaun? The Spaun website is not exactly user friendly.

Thanks!

Regards,
Dean


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

According to the description here:
http://www.copperbox.com/lite/popinfo.php?lc_code=SMS5802NF&uneek=109416010
that switch should work just fine with the integrated switch on the Phase III triple LNB oval dish.


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## Deano (Mar 21, 2002)

Jim,
Thanks for the quick reply. Forgive me for asking but how are you deciphering that from the description on that website? 

Thank you!

Regards,
Dean


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

It stated that it was capable of "Satellite selection by 22kHz switching." This is what is used to select the 110/119 satellite pair. This switch sends the 22kHz to the integrated switch so that one knows to switch to the 110/119 pair. Otherwise you get the 101 sat. It's late and that sentence was awful, but you get the idea.


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## jjon2121 (Mar 31, 2002)

I just ordered a zinwell 4x8 multiswitch for $30 plus $10 shipping at Ebay. The seller has 19 still available at the link below:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=67880&item=5704305266


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## lonewoolf47 (Nov 16, 2001)

> _Originally posted by jjon2121 _
> *I just ordered a zinwell 4x8 multiswitch for $30 plus $10 shipping at Ebay. The seller has 19 still available at the link below:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=67880&item=5704305266 *


 Ten dollars for shipping! I've never bought anything from Ebay but I'm thinking of selling my S/A. If someone can charge Ten Dollars for a multiswitch; I'm getting carried away here . Truly sorry


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## chumbley (Jun 23, 2004)

re: The Zinwell SAM-4803 4x8 multiswitch...

I installed one of these last week, and it works fine. However, it runs very hot (the unit and the power supply). 

Is this normal?

Thanks,
Jeff


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## jjon2121 (Mar 31, 2002)

High shipping charges help some retailers to undercut the competition on the quoted price and get listed first. You see it at all the shopping sites. 

Many Ebay sellers use high shipping to ensure they get a minimum price in case the bidding is lower than desired. It seems that the items with high shipping always go for lower prices. Self-fullfilling prophecy?

I just look at the total price and compare.


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## Deano (Mar 21, 2002)

Can the triple LNB with integrated switch be used on the channel master dishes?


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## axolotl (Feb 25, 2006)

rptally said:


> The multiswitch was part of my new house. It is a UStec 5x8 Multiswitch CX-DSS58 and is "HDTV compatible". Has anyone made this work with a phase III dish?


Just for reference in case anyone is searching for "USTec" and "triple LNB" (like I did)... Note that this note may not be applicable to the CX-DSS58.

My house has a USTec CX-HDA58 multiswitch/8-way OTA antenna splitter. Yesterday I installed a triple LNB DirecTV dish and HR10-250 DVR.

This was a self-install, so as others have noted, if you get an installation from DirecTV they will most likely just bypass your built-in multiswitch with one the installer brings. Previously, after our first SD DVR was installed using the older single LNB dish, the installer had cascaded two 3x4 multiswitches to connect all of our receivers. This was a cabling mess, so I wanted to utilize the built-in equipment if possible.

The 3rd and 4th LNB connections on the CX-HDA58 require 22 kHz tone generators. I ordered them from hometech. Search for P/N CV-22T. At the time of this posting they are $13 each. A bit cheaper than a new 4x8 multiswitch, and it is a much cleaner solution since all of the hardware and cabing is built into the USTec cabinet. I have 4 DirecTV receivers (HD DVR w/2 satellite drops, SD DVR w/2 satellite drops, and two SD receivers each w/1 satellite drop) and they all work fine (seeing all 3 satellites).

Note: due to the angled placement of the multiswitch in the USTec cabinet, I had to make a short RG6 cable (4") to connect the LNB 4 tone generator. The CV-22T has a male connector on the multiswitch end, designed to screw directly to the multiswitch. The CX-HDA58 LNB 4 connection is too close to the wall of the structured wiring cabinet for the tone generator to directly screw into the connector.

Note that the newer MPEG-4 DirecTV AT9 dishes are only guaranteed to be compatible with the Zinwell WB68 multiswitch. So if and when I upgrade to the MPEG-4 HD system, I may have to abandon use of the USTec built-in hardware.

- Merle


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## c2guy (Mar 5, 2006)

chumbley said:


> re: The Zinwell SAM-4803 4x8 multiswitch...
> 
> I installed one of these last week, and it works fine. However, it runs very hot (the unit and the power supply).
> 
> ...


i've installed several of those zinwell(4x8) and yes they do get very hot 
just remember you have lots of current going through that switch 
so if your not having pixel problems your in good shape


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## wbgolfer (Dec 12, 2007)

RDJR said:


> I have two lines running from my Phase 3 to the ms in the basement and one line from the Phase 3 running directly to my HD receiver. 3 Dtivo's from the ms and my HD receiver straight from the dish all work like a charm.


I realize this is an old post - but I have this issue - I just got a D* 3 LNB with built in MS. I want to use just 2 RG6 cables from the dish into my house. Once inside I need a MS for my two SD TIVO's. (NOTE: I'm replacing a 18" Dual LNB)

Would it be possible for you to provide me with the details of the MS that you used??? 
Also - did you need to do anything "Special" at the dish?? 
Thanks --- Bill


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## texasbrit (Mar 17, 2004)

wbgolfer said:


> I realize this is an old post - but I have this issue - I just got a D* 3 LNB with built in MS. I want to use just 2 RG6 cables from the dish into my house. Once inside I need a MS for my two SD TIVO's. (NOTE: I'm replacing a 18" Dual LNB)
> 
> Would it be possible for you to provide me with the details of the MS that you used???
> Also - did you need to do anything "Special" at the dish??
> Thanks --- Bill


Not sure why you are doing this. If you want to use a Phase III oval dish with only two cables to the house, it will behave exactly the same as the old 18in dish - receive the same satellites etc. So what's the point?

Anyway, if you connect the two cables to any standard DirecTV multiswitch (2x4, 2x8 or even a 4x8) it will give you enough outputs to connect four cables to the two TiVos. But as I said - why?


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## wetchemistry (Dec 4, 2010)

texasbrit said:


> Not sure why you are doing this. If you want to use a Phase III oval dish with only two cables to the house, it will behave exactly the same as the old 18in dish - receive the same satellites etc. So what's the point?
> 
> Anyway, if you connect the two cables to any standard DirecTV multiswitch (2x4, 2x8 or even a 4x8) it will give you enough outputs to connect four cables to the two TiVos. But as I said - why?


Why? Money. Maybe he doesn't have any to buy a newer model.


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## texasbrit (Mar 17, 2004)

But he does not need a newer model....the 18in dish would still do what he wants...


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