# TW refuses to give cable card?



## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

I've been using my Roamio for OTA, but getting only 2 channels isn't cutting it (This is my location, but the fault of the Roamio). I called Time Warner to see what they'd charge for the locals only package. They said it would add $20 to my bill (Currently have high speed internet with them), which I thought was ridiculous, but said go ahead anyway, but when I mentioned that I needed a cable card for my Tivo, they flat out refused. I told them they were required by law to issue cable card, and they said yes, but not for this particular package. It REQUIRED their receiver, and REQUIRED a professional $50 install as well. Is this right? Can they refuse to issue cable cards on their basic, locals only package?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

If it requires a box then they are required to give you a CableCARD.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

They are required to give you a CableCard if they require you to take their receiver.

You probably need a CableCard for the channel lineup to work properly anyway, and I think they would still be required to give you a card.


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## LoREvanescence (Jun 19, 2007)

Is there basic package analog only? If it is then maybe they are not required to give you a CableCard.

But if it's digital, or includes HD they must give you a CableCard, especially if they say you need their box.

Try calling TiVo Support, they will get on the call with you with TW


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## twhiting9275 (Nov 17, 2006)

Sounds like you're getting the runaround from some ignorant individuals in support. You need to call back, and if they continue to act like that, speak to a supervisor. They made a couple pretty stupid mistakes though:

From the FCC's site , in very plain English (ie: no lawyer speak)

#1: As others have mentioned, they're required t give you a cablecard.
#2: They're required to give you a *discount*. This means they cannot charge you more than (or equal to) the amount they would charge you for their cable boxes.
#3: They're required to provide you with a self install option. They can no longer require you to pay the $50 truck roll fee.
#4: They may NOT under any circumstances hide anything, or refuse to provide anything (other than On Demand) to you, the customer, via cablecard


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## mickcris (Jan 20, 2014)

If your local channels are not encrypted, then you shouldn't need one if those are the only channels you are going to be getting. Although, if they weren't encrypted, you could have just hooked a cable into you tivo and gotten the channels without paying extra for them.


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## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

I'll call back tomorrow and see what they have to say. I'll ask to speak to a supervisor and quote FCC laws of necessary.


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## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

mickcris said:


> If your local channels are not encrypted, then you shouldn't need one if those are the only channels you are going to be getting. Although, if they weren't encrypted, you could have just hooked a cable into you tivo and gotten the channels without paying extra for them.


I tried that, and it didn't work unfortunately.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Yes, you can try to fight them the hard way on this, but I suggest just doing it the easy way. Sign up for their digital cable package, get the CableCard (and tuning adapter just in case), and then once you've got the card installed and paired, call them up and drop down to basic cable only. I'm pretty sure they'll prorate your bill, so you'll probably only wind up paying for the higher tier rate for a few days, so you'll only be out a few bucks.

But here's what I don't understand. On my TWC, they send through the local broadcast channels in HD unencrypted. Other users on this board have reported that they have been able to get unencrypted channels on a Roamio without a CableCard installed. I'm a little surprised you can't get them on your TiVo without a CableCard and manage to save the monthly CableCard rental fee. Have they actually activated basic cable on your account yet? Have you tried scanning for channels with the coax hooked up to the TiVo? What channels can you get when you just hook up a TV straight into the coax without a cable box?


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

On my TWC system, the HD locals and a few others are unencrypted and can be viewed on any TiVo or TV with a digital tuner after a channel scan. The problem is that TWC assigns those channels to virtual channel numbers equivalent to the OTA equivalent, such as 10-1 or 34-1. 

In order to get guide data to work, you have to have the CableCard to re-map those channels to the channel numbers the TiVo is expecting to find the HD locals on. For my example, those are 1010 and 1007.


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## Colbyt (Jul 6, 2006)

tarheelblue32 said:


> But here's what I don't understand. On my TWC, they send through the local broadcast channels in HD unencrypted. ?


They probably haven't "ungraded/" your area yet. Here you get nothing without some type of box. If you go with the cheap mini box you get nothing in HD. Pretty sad to have pay for the local in SD.


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## LoREvanescence (Jun 19, 2007)

tatergator1 said:


> On my TWC system, the HD locals and a few others are unencrypted and can be viewed on any TiVo or TV with a digital tuner after a channel scan. The problem is that TWC assigns those channels to virtual channel numbers equivalent to the OTA equivalent, such as 10-1 or 34-1.
> 
> In order to get guide data to work, you have to have the CableCard to re-map those channels to the channel numbers the TiVo is expecting to find the HD locals on. For my example, those are 1010 and 1007.


Actually, they are just picking up the virtual channel numbers from the OTA Feed TWC is making available through their cable feed.

Guide data will not work for these channels like you said.

And they are not visible, you need to scan for channels and the TiVo finds them, and then you have to add them to channels you receive before they even show up.

So recording on them is only possible via manual recordings by channel number, time and duration. If you hit record on a show you are watching it will just record a half hour regardless of what the length of the program is.

This is no ideal, and rather a pain. I had to put up with this 6 or 7 years ago when I was in my senior year of college, and students living on campus apartments could not rent any equipment from comcast, as the school provided cable paid for already for you and their contract with comcast didn't allow for students to obtain anything digital packages, cable boxes, premium packages or what not.

I ended up with a Series 3 full of manual recordings, and you could not tell what they were, you had to play several of the before you found the recording you actual wanted to watch.

Go with the cable card


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## A J Ricaud (Jun 25, 2002)

kturcotte said:


> I tried that, and it didn't work unfortunately.


In my area TWC installs a filter on the cable to prevent receiving cable channels when you are signed up for internet only. That's probably your situation too.


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## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

I called them, and after being told again that I could not receive a cable card for that particular package, I insisted on speaking with a manager. They balked at first, and didn't want to do that, but finally relented. The manager was extremely snooty, not understanding why I couldn't just subscribe to their basic digital package and their DVR for $64 a month. I kept telling him that was more than I cared to spend on TV when I can get 95% of what I want with broadcast channels. Then he kept going on about how great their DVRs were compared to Tivos, and I just kept laughing to myself. Finally I had enough and told him that I wanted the just the broadcast channels package, and I wanted it working on my Tivo, like the law and FCC says they have to. He didn't really like that either, but finally relented. Then he told me that he could have somebody here in 2 weeks to install the cable card, and that it would cost $50. I had to again tell him that the FCC doesn't allow that. He didn't like that either but again relented. I told him that I was headed down there tomorrow to pick up my cable card and that it had better be ready or I would be letting the FCC know. FCC seems to be the magic word when they know they're in the wrong lol We'll see what happens tomorrow when I try and go pick my card up. The way this has gone, I'm expecting something. Why do they make it so difficult for me to give them my money?!


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

I commend your persistence in getting TW to live up to their legal duty. On the bright side, since you will only be getting the basic cable channels, you won't need to mess with one of their shoddy tuning adapters, unless you really want to be able to get the community access channels or C-SPAN.


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## LoREvanescence (Jun 19, 2007)

Here's to wishing you luck tomorrow. The battle is not over yet.

My get is they are going to get you on the pairing. You are going to get someone who can't get it right and what not. Then they are going to try to get you to get their DVR again, and when you decline will try to talk you into having a truck roll again.

Don't give up if they try something like that, sounds like you are determined so far and by being persistent you will get what you want.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

LoREvanescence said:


> Here's to wishing you luck tomorrow. The battle is not over yet.
> 
> My get is they are going to get you on the pairing. You are going to get someone who can't get it right and what not. Then they are going to try to get you to get their DVR again, and when you decline will try to talk you into having a truck roll again.
> 
> Don't give up if they try something like that, sounds like you are determined so far and by being persistent you will get what you want.


Actually, since he's just getting basic channels, he might not even need to pair the CableCard. After I installed my CableCard from TW, I was able to get the basic channels without doing the pairing. And if you call the TW CableCard activation line, the people there seem to know how to pair properly since that's basically all they do all day. But if you call the main TW service line, you are correct. They won't know what the hell a CableCard is.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

kturcotte said:


> I called Time Warner to see what they'd charge for the locals only package. They said it would add $20 to my bill (Currently have high speed internet with them), which I thought was ridiculous, but said go ahead anyway, but when I mentioned that I needed a cable card for my Tivo, they flat out refused. I told them they were required by law to issue cable card, and they said yes, but not for this particular package. It REQUIRED their receiver, and REQUIRED a professional $50 install as well. Is this right? Can they refuse to issue cable cards on their basic, locals only package?





Dan203 said:


> If it requires a box then they are required to give you a CableCARD.


Dan hits the nail on the head, they're not required to give you a CableCARD on a service level that doesn't require it, and the "locals only" if not encrypted won't "officially" need it, you only need the CC to have the Tivo map the channel map. For once TW isn't in the wrong.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

dianebrat said:


> Dan hits the nail on the head, they're not required to give you a CableCARD on a service level that doesn't require it, and the "locals only" if not encrypted won't "officially" need it, you only need the CC to have the Tivo map the channel map. For once TW isn't in the wrong.


I think you'd probably prevail on an FCC complaint, though, since it is required to make the channel map work.

I don't really get why they wouldn't want to offer him a CableCard, though. It isn't detrimental to them when they give someone a card, they will charge a rental fee. I have to think it was simply uneducated/shoddy CSRs and supervisors.


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## twhiting9275 (Nov 17, 2006)

kturcotte said:


> Why do they make it so difficult for me to give them my money?!


Because they want more of your money than you want to give up. Their default is 'give us all of it'



tarheelblue32 said:


> Actually, since he's just getting basic channels, he might not even need to pair the CableCard.


He won't. Pairing is only required for copy protected channels (premium channels typically)


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

JosephB said:


> I think you'd probably prevail on an FCC complaint, though, since it is required to make the channel map work.
> 
> I don't really get why they wouldn't want to offer him a CableCard, though. It isn't detrimental to them when they give someone a card, they will charge a rental fee. I have to think it was simply uneducated/shoddy CSRs and supervisors.


I disagree, the channel mapping isn't required to view, just to get guide data, not TW's issue.

As far as "why wouldn't they just give him a card and charge?" because with every bone in their corporate body they have no interest in seeing CableCARDs work and do what they can to discourage their use, just look at their overly aggressive protection settings.

Even Comcast in several markets I've been in won't give a CC to a basic "analog level" user, you have to sign up for a higher level, get the CC, and then drop your service level and keep the card.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

dianebrat said:


> I disagree, the channel mapping isn't required to view, just to get guide data, not TW's issue.
> 
> As far as "why wouldn't they just give him a card and charge?" because with every bone in their corporate body they have no interest in seeing CableCARDs work and do what they can to discourage their use, just look at their overly aggressive protection settings.
> 
> Even Comcast in several markets I've been in won't give a CC to a basic "analog level" user, you have to sign up for a higher level, get the CC, and then drop your service level and keep the card.


I don't know how this would hold up, but I believe 100% that they are required to do something in the situation where you receive digital channels. The problem is that they are required to provide you with the information on what channel what content is available. This is a long standing rule that predates Cablecard. Applied in this situation, I have yet to see a cable company publish the location of their digital channels, so providing the cablecard would provide that information. I haven't figured out why the FCC continues to allow them to have the digital channels on unpublished channel numbers. For those who state that they use the OTA numbers, that isn't valid as the broadcast schemes are different and that is not consistent amongst providers.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

dianebrat said:


> Dan hits the nail on the head, they're not required to give you a CableCARD on a service level that doesn't require it, and the "locals only" if not encrypted won't "officially" need it, you only need the CC to have the Tivo map the channel map. For once TW isn't in the wrong.


I should have made my previous reply directly to this one. It does officially need it because they are required to provide a channel map. They don't.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Actually, since he's just getting basic channels, he might not even need to pair the CableCard. After I installed my CableCard from TW, I was able to get the basic channels without doing the pairing. And if you call the TW CableCard activation line, the people there seem to know how to pair properly since that's basically all they do all day. But if you call the main TW service line, you are correct. They won't know what the hell a CableCard is.


With certain providers, others have purchased CCs off eBay and used them unpaired for locals. They cost about 10 bucks if you want to try. I would attempt to get either Motorola or Cisco/SA depending on which type of box your local office uses. It won't authorize any channels, but it might be able to pick up the map for you.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

So you are recommending the OP scan fleabay and purchase stolen merchandise? Great solution bud.

As bad as TWC is, there are legal and ethical ways to fix the OPs situation.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

jcthorne said:


> So you are recommending the OP scan fleabay and purchase stolen merchandise? Great solution bud.
> 
> As bad as TWC is, there are legal and ethical ways to fix the OPs situation.


There is nothing unethical about purchasing a cablecard from ebay. If the owner is selling them stolen then it would be unethical for them. There are several smaller cable companies that sell their cablecards outright instead of leasing them. There are other legal ways to obtain them. I admit that there is no way for a user to know whether or not one was stolen (but that is the issue with purchasing anything, especially on ebay). Many of them are sold by hardware scrappers (most likely scrapping decommissioned boxes from the cable companies, since they never remove the cards from their own boxes).
There is nothing directly illegal about purchasing a cablecard and using it. Only if you tried to hack it to receive something you aren't supposed to would it cause a problem.

Edit:
Note: If you actually believe that a specific item on eBay was stolen, don't buy it and report it.


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## twhiting9275 (Nov 17, 2006)

socrplyr said:


> There is nothing unethical about purchasing a cablecard from ebay.


Yes there is. Buying stolen property is just as bad as selling it, and yes, it's well known that you cannot buy these online legally


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

twhiting9275 said:


> Yes there is. Buying stolen property is just as bad as selling it, and yes, it's well known that you cannot buy these online legally


You are making the presumption that it is stolen. There are numerous ways to get a cablecard that it is not stolen. It is not well known that you can't buy them online legally, you just assumed and made that up.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

socrplyr said:


> I should have made my previous reply directly to this one. It does officially need it because they are required to provide a channel map. They don't.


Please quote that specific law -- that's news to me.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

BobCamp1 said:


> Please quote that specific law -- that's news to me.


I never said it was law (many here confuse rules with law). However, I haven't been able to find the associated rule. I might be confusing it with "Identification of must-carry signals." That is a written request rule and may or may not define frequency/channel information.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

If none of the channels are encrypted then they are not required to give you a card. It,s basically like an analog package at that point. They are only required to provide a card if you are required to use a box. 

That being said their policy on this is very anti-consumer! The guy is willing to pay for the service and the card, why not give it to him? Personally I would do what someone suggested above. Order the minimum package required for them to give you a card. After a month call and have them lower your service level to the basic package you want. At that point you have the card so they're not going to take it away.

Buying one on eBay is also an option. But as mentioned they are most likely stolen, in that someone kept them after they canceled their service, so if that's against your ethics then you have other options. Although if you're going to do this you'll have to make sure to get an M-Card of the same brand used by your cable company.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

Again, I highly doubt there is a policy on the books at TWC that says if you get basic only you cannot get a CableCard. You are paying for it, it doesn't impose any increased burden than that they'd otherwise have in providing you service. I wholeheartedly believe that this was just a CSR and supervisor being idiots.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

JosephB said:


> Again, I highly doubt there is a policy on the books at TWC that says if you get basic only you cannot get a CableCard. You are paying for it, it doesn't impose any increased burden than that they'd otherwise have in providing you service. I wholeheartedly believe that this was just a CSR and supervisor being idiots.


I've witnessed the policy at Comcast first hand with a friend, there was no possible way to get a CableCARD in his market for the "basic services" or "lifeline" level of service, he needed to bump up to Digital Basic and then drop down after a month.


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## twhiting9275 (Nov 17, 2006)

socrplyr said:


> There are numerous ways to get a cablecard that it is not stolen.


Go ahead, name *two* _*legitimate*_ ways to obtain a cablecard outside of your cable provider. We'll wait. It is very, very well known that this can't be done outside of the cable provider, and if you *do* get one, it'll be locked to that provider. Thusly, yes, those selling them are selling stolen cards


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

twhiting9275 said:


> Go ahead, name *two* _*legitimate*_ ways to obtain a cablecard outside of your cable provider. We'll wait. It is very, very well known that this can't be done outside of the cable provider, and if you *do* get one, it'll be locked to that provider. Thusly, yes, those selling them are selling stolen cards


Several smaller cable providers in the US allow you to buy a cablecard outright. So it is possible these customers end up selling them. However, most cards on eBay are not from these customers.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

twhiting9275 said:


> Go ahead, name *two* _*legitimate*_ ways to obtain a cablecard outside of your cable provider. We'll wait. It is very, very well known that this can't be done outside of the cable provider, and if you *do* get one, it'll be locked to that provider. Thusly, yes, those selling them are selling stolen cards





rainwater said:


> Several smaller cable providers in the US allow you to buy a cablecard outright. So it is possible these customers end up selling them. However, most cards on eBay are not from these customers.


That's one. Two would be that after a cable company scraps a box, they are most likely sold to an electronics recycler (I know at least one eBay reseller of them is an electronics recycler). Remember that the cable companies ignore the intent of the Cablecard rules and never remove the cablecards from their own equipment. Three would be anyone who didn't return their equipment, but paid the equipment replacement fee.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

There is a chance that a cablecard from ebay is not stolen, but the overwhelming likelihood is that they are. There are no absolutes in life but this is close to one.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

JosephB said:


> There is a chance that a cablecard from ebay is not stolen, but the overwhelming likelihood is that they are. There are no absolutes in life but this is close to one.


What would be considered a stolen cable card, yes taking it off the back of your cable co van, but moving and taking your cable card with you and paying the cable co for the card that was not returned, I don't think that would be having a stolen cable card, breaking into someone's home and taking their cable card, that a stolen cable card. If you report your cable card stolen or lost the cable co would de-active the card, in my Comcast area within a few days that cable card would not work for any channels.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

JosephB said:


> Again, I highly doubt there is a policy on the books at TWC that says if you get basic only you cannot get a CableCard. You are paying for it, it doesn't impose any increased burden than that they'd otherwise have in providing you service. I wholeheartedly believe that this was just a CSR and supervisor being idiots.


It's not a policy per se, it's just that the ordering computer system doesn't allow it. Perhaps their system will not allow them to activate the Cablecards. Perhaps they can't even give you one of their DVRs unless you upgrade to a higher tier.

They don't appear to be legally obligated to give the OP a card in this case. The OP is just trying to workaround a problem with his Tivo. The Tivo is not designed to work with basic tier, either (there's no manual QAM mapping). And it's probably not worth fixing the cable system or the Tivo code for the very few people who need this feature.

The workaround advertised by everyone is to get a higher tier for a month, then downgrade back to a basic tier. You'll get a CableCard and everything will be happy.


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## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

Now we're having fun. Picked up the card yesterday. That went fine until they told me there was a filter on my line to block tv because I only have internet. That I was expecting. However, I was told that the earliest they could come out to remove it is 3 weeks, and that I have to keep the card and the programming active until they remove the filter, cause if they're not active, it cancels the order to remove the order. They REALLY don't want to let you use cable cards huh? So talking an above poster's advice, I said that I also had another tv I wanted programming on, and I would need with their absolute cheapest box and I'll use that. Well then "MAGICALLY" they can send somebody out to remove the filter on Thursday. Isn't that just AMAZING?! What they don't realize is that as soon as the filter is removed their box goes back.


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## twhiting9275 (Nov 17, 2006)

twhiting9275 said:


> Go ahead, name *two* _*legitimate*_ ways to obtain a cablecard _*outside of your cable provider. *_





socrplyr said:


> That's one.


You've failed to grasp the entire point
#1: Outside of the cable provider
#2: Shady at best
#3: Theft

Even if you do manage to pull off getting a card legitimately, the odds of being able to activate it at your cable company, not so much


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

twhiting9275 said:


> You've failed to grasp the entire point
> #1: Outside of the cable provider
> #2: Shady at best
> #3: Theft
> ...


#1: What's the problem with getting it outside the provider? I think they should allow you to activate your own if you do get one... Nothing in the cablecard rules states that the card must come from the provider directly, but the cable companies take advantage of the ambiguity.
#2: Not shady at all. Are you suggesting that we shouldn't recycle and reuse electronics? The cable companies decide to sell the boxes all on their own.
#3: You might want to double check your definition of theft. Something paid for is by definition not theft. I highly doubt the cable companies have a clause in the agreement when you pay for non-returned equipment they they still hold the ownership of the equipment. And legally that wouldn't fly most places.

I don't understand why you are so insistent that just because something is not typically sold direct to consumers that it is wrong/shady/illegal to obtain.

Edit: Sorry I took the discussion way off topic. I concede any further statement to try and keep the thread useful for the original poster.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Except in the same system nobody has reported any success using a 3rd pty cable card stolen or not. No one has reported that their cable co would pare any cable card you provided, except some small cable systems that let you purchase the cable card from them directly.
When people start reporting that E-Bay purchased Cable cards will work then the fun will start.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

TWC will only activate TWC cable cards. Same is true for Comcast and most other cablecos. NONE of them sell cable cards. Ever. Only in Canada are cable cards sold outright. In the US they are all leased. By the month or one time payment does not matter, none are sold.

If a TWC, Comcast or other US cable card is for sale on fleabay, its stolen merchandise. Ebay routinely removes these listings as they are fraudulent.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

lessd said:


> When people start reporting that E-Bay purchased Cable cards will work then the fun will start.


There needs to be the disclaimer that ebay purchased cards can allow a user to do ClearQAM channel mapping if they're the correct brand, but nothing more, and the CableCo will not pair them.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

kturcotte said:


> Now we're having fun. Picked up the card yesterday. That went fine until they told me there was a filter on my line to block tv because I only have internet. That I was expecting. However, I was told that the earliest they could come out to remove it is 3 weeks, and that I have to keep the card and the programming active until they remove the filter, cause if they're not active, it cancels the order to remove the order. They REALLY don't want to let you use cable cards huh? So talking an above poster's advice, I said that I also had another tv I wanted programming on, and I would need with their absolute cheapest box and I'll use that. Well then "MAGICALLY" they can send somebody out to remove the filter on Thursday. Isn't that just AMAZING?! What they don't realize is that as soon as the filter is removed their box goes back.


I've noticed with TWC that they get these fiefdoms... and the fiefdoms can be awful. But corporate, in my experience, has actually been pretty great. But if your local fiefdom is awful, they will make you run in circles to get what they want.

Try going above the local numbers to the corporate numbers, raise a stink, and see what happens. Our local guys are trying hard, but we're a recent TWC acquisition, so they just don't know how to do a lot of stuff yet. But when I get the corporate guys on the phone, they get it all done fast.


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## pbubel (Jan 31, 2002)

twhiting9275 said:


> Go ahead, name *two* _*legitimate*_ ways to obtain a cablecard outside of your cable provider. We'll wait. It is very, very well known that this can't be done outside of the cable provider, and if you *do* get one, it'll be locked to that provider. Thusly, yes, those selling them are selling stolen cards


Aside from smaller providers selling them, how about if you lose your cablecard in a move. Then the provider charges you a non-returned equipment fee which you have to pay. 6 months later you find the card and sell it on eBay to recover some of what you lost. Not saying this is likely, but its very much possible.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

pbubel said:


> Aside from smaller providers selling them, how about if you lose your cablecard in a move. Then the provider charges you a non-returned equipment fee which you have to pay. 6 months later you find the card and sell it on eBay to recover some of what you lost. Not saying this is likely, but its very much possible.


It is still a stolen card as you never actually purchased it. You only paid a fee to cover the cableco's financial loss. Its not the same thing.

Again, there are NO cable companies in the US that SELL cable card. They only lease with very specific license terms that do not allow you to transfer ownership. They are ALL the property of the Cable company that issued them.


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## pbubel (Jan 31, 2002)

Where are you getting that from? If you pay the non returned equipment fee, that gear is yours. Why wouldn't it be?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

jcthorne said:


> Again, there are NO cable companies in the US that SELL cable card.


That is NOT true. There have been plenty of threads here about smaller cable companies only allowing customers to purchase them full price (and not lease them).


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

pbubel said:


> Where are you getting that from? If you pay the non returned equipment fee, that gear is yours. Why wouldn't it be?


If you report a lost item to your insurance co and they give you the money for that item than sometime later you find that item do you think you own the item, and can sell it ? The insurance co owns the item, the cable co owns the cable card and it should be returned to them, and the cable co should return your money.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

lessd said:


> If you report a lost item to your insurance co and they give you the money for that item than sometime later you find that item do you think you own the item, and can sell it ? The insurance co owns the item, the cable co owns the cable card and it should be returned to them, and the cable co should return your money.


Wait, so if the insurance company pays for something, they own it, but if you pay for something, then the Cable Company still owns it? That makes no sense.


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## LoPan12 (Jan 31, 2014)

In a slightly different flavor of this...I've got digital basic cable, to get channels in HD. They say that there's no way that I can have this without also having their box, and the ensuing $8/mo fee. It's never even been hooked up, but they say that I HAVE to have it to have the digital cable...is this right?


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

LoPan12 said:


> In a slightly different flavor of this...I've got digital basic cable, to get channels in HD. They say that there's no way that I can have this without also having their box, and the ensuing $8/mo fee. It's never even been hooked up, but they say that I HAVE to have it to have the digital cable...is this right?


There's talk of TWC moving to eventually encrypt all channels, but AFAIK, they've not done this anywhere yet. Typically, TWC sends all of the Local Broadcast stations and sub-channels unencrypted and can be viewed by any device with a Digital cable tuner after performing a manual channel scan.

With that said, I believe Digital Basic includes a few other channels besides the CBS/ABC/NBC/FOX etc. channels. Those would require a box from TWC or a CableCARD to view since those are encrypted.


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