# Tivo mini will NOT work with 2-tuner Edge? Please confirm or comments



## theruckman (Jun 21, 2005)

Hey everyone, long time Tivo junkie here. I have been fine with my OTA Tivo Premiere for a few years now, but got the 2 tuner deal promo here recently (OTA, $322 out the door, all in service). I am FINE with 2 tuners, I know alot say not worth it with only 2 tuners...not me....OTA....I am totally fine.....was just ready to upgrade after I installed one for another client -AND ALSO installed a couple minis for this client......SO I get on Ebay and buy a mini TCDA93000 and call them to activate.....totally honest with them, told them from Ebay...etc....even if they wanted an extra $50 I did not care. WHAT I DID NOT EXPECT WAS them saying because it is only 2 tuners I cannot use the mini with it? HUH? I do not reading anything about this limitation -BUT would not have known to look for/ask about it anyway. So was she blowing smoke here or what? Any comments?

thanks
Scott


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

theruckman said:


> Hey everyone, long time Tivo junkie here. I have been fine with my OTA Tivo Premiere for a few years now, but got the 2 tuner deal promo here recently (OTA, $322 out the door, all in service). I am FINE with 2 tuners, I know alot say not worth it with only 2 tuners...not me....OTA....I am totally fine.....was just ready to upgrade after I installed one for another client -AND ALSO installed a couple minis for this client......SO I get on Ebay and buy a mini TCDA93000 and call them to activate.....totally honest with them, told them from Ebay...etc....even if they wanted an extra $50 I did not care. WHAT I DID NOT EXPECT WAS them saying because it is only 2 tuners I cannot use the mini with it? HUH? I do not reading anything about this limitation -BUT would not have known to look for/ask about it anyway. So was she blowing smoke here or what? Any comments? thanks Scott


TiVo's documentation does in fact show that the mini requires a 4 tuner host. But, there are some people who say it WILL work with the 2 tuner Edge OTA. 2-TUNER EDGE OTA OBSERVATIONS Here is the TiVo documentation that refutes this. Tivo Customer Support Community


> TiVo® Mini is a convenient, all-purpose companion to your 4-tuner TiVo DVR.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

It does not work with a Series 4 Premiere. The box is grayed out and there's a circle. An attempt produces a V70 error. This was with TE3. It may work with TE4.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

pl1 said:


> TiVo's documentation does in fact show that the mini requires a 4 tuner host. But, there are some people who say it WILL work with the 2 tuner Edge OTA. 2-TUNER EDGE OTA OBSERVATIONS Here is the TiVo documentation that refutes this. Tivo Customer Support Community


Well, the linked TiVo Support page initially indicates it should be supported, based on the declaration of "EDGE *series*" support (i.e. no # of tuners qualification for EDGE series, but only specific 4-tuner Premiere models listed):


> TiVo Mini works with the following TiVo devices:
> 
> TiVo EDGE Series
> TiVo BOLT Series
> ...


See also the Mini Setup page:


> The host must be a TiVo EDGE, TiVo BOLT, TiVo Roamio or a TiVo Premiere 4 or XL4/Elite.


So it becomes a question of whether the 4-tuner qualification is outdated, or if the EDGE series declaration hasn't been updated following the release of the 2-tuner OTA-only EDGE.

The question of host DVR support would be easily answered once the Mini is active on the same TiVo account and all the necessary mothership connections have completed.

p.s. My money is on it working, putting a real world example above TiVo documentation or TiVo Support:


bricco said:


> The big plus, and maybe its a mistake, was that my Minis could not only play the recordings, but use the tuners for live TV. Right now my Kitchen Mini is using the 2 tuner box as its source.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

OTOH, there are instances where TiVo shows needing a 4 tuner host.
TiVo Mini VOX | Best Multi-Room TV Solution | Custom TiVo
*What you'll need *At least one 4- or 6-tuner TiVo BOLT VOX™ or TiVo Roamio™ series DVR
EDIT: It does not mention Edge here.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

TiVo Mini LUX | Multi-room DVR experience with this add-on


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

Tivo Customer Support Community


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Another instance demo'ing the ability to set a 2-tuner EDGE as the host DVR&#8230;


GSG1802 said:


> I too recently purchased the TiVo Edge Dual Tuner for Antenna and it works with my TiVO Mini


&#8230; though with issues also highlighting that it either wasn't intentional or well-tested. Even with dynamic tuner allocation, 2 tuners is a meager pool to share between devices.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

krkaufman said:


> Another instance demo'ing the ability to set a 2-tuner EDGE as the host DVR&#8230; &#8230; though with issues also highlighting that it either wasn't intentional or well-tested. Even with dynamic tuner allocation, 2 tuners is a meager pool to share between devices.


Totally agree.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

pl1 said:


> Totally agree.


I feel like you don't understand how the Internet works.


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## GSG1802 (Aug 26, 2021)

krkaufman said:


> Another instance demo'ing the ability to set a 2-tuner EDGE as the host DVR&#8230;
> ​&#8230; though with issues also highlighting that it either wasn't intentional or well-tested. Even with dynamic tuner allocation, 2 tuners is a meager pool to share between devices.


krkaufman, I just saw that you included my quote above, so I thought I would jump in and update you regarding my experience using the Edge OTA 500GB tuner with the original Mini (model TCDA93000) and original TiVo Bridge (mfg by Actiontec) to create a MoCA connection. [TE4.] I am only using one Mini and have confirmed that it does in fact work with the Edge OTA dual tuner I recently purchased. Being limited to two tuners is not ideal, and I wish my Roamio did not crash and burn, but the reality is that two tuners works well for my personal situation.

What initially confused me was TiVo's misleading (and inaccurate) error messages (e.g., the "V88" message.) But, after doing a lot of testing to understand how the two devices (Edge and Mini) interact, I determined that the key is learning how to "release" a tuner from one device's control so that the other can use it. It can be fairly confusing, so I have been writing out an itemized document that shows how they work together under different scenarios. I will post it soon if I conclude that it will be helpful to others, but before I do that I figured I should search the forum to see if someone else has already done something similar (I probably should have searched the forum first, but all the testing really gave me a better understanding of the two devices.) One thing I can't answer, is whether the Edge OTA and the newer Mini LUX work the same.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Thanks for the confirmation, and advance kudos on the how-to write-up on managing tuners in this setup. I’m fairly sure you won’t find a similar doc anywhere.

re: newer Minis, I’m confident that they will work similarly.


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## GSG1802 (Aug 26, 2021)

@krkaufman, @pl1 and @theruckman (and others reading this), the attached .pdf document provides a description of the result of my testing of how to "allocate" or "release" the Edge for Antenna tuners when using the Edge with a TiVo Mini device. I hope it is understandable. It took quite a bit of time and effort to figure out how the two devices interact, and then describe it in writing, but it was a useful exercise since I now have a much better understanding of that. Also, I now know what the "V88" error message actually means.

Any input or questions regarding the document are welcome. If it looks good as is, and anyone thinks it would be helpful, I can post a separate copy in a new conversation thread to address "Allocating or Releasing a Tuner." Let me know what you think of that as well.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

@GSG1802 That is a wealth of information. I was going to ask if you could release the mini from a tuner by keeping it in "now playing", which I always leave set to on mine. But, you answered that.

Note: Sometimes, I turn on my mini connected TV and find it is playing live TV, using a tuner, without any interaction. I think sometimes The Emergency Alert System (EAS) triggers it. This could cause more issues with a two tuner device.

Anyway, well done and I see no errors!


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## GSG1802 (Aug 26, 2021)

Thanks for the feedback, @pl1. I believe that the Mini connected TV will be playing a "live" show if you have recently been using it (probably even if it is over 4 hours ago, such as when you were watching it at 11:00 p.m. at night, and then turn on the same TV at 8:00 a.m. the next morning.) I haven't actually tested what you are describing, but may just do that just for a further understanding of the tuners. I suspect that will only be true as long as nothing was previously set to record on the Edge-controlled TV (e.g., the morning news show at 7:00 a.m.) When that occurs, the Edge will be recording on one of the tuners while leaving the other tuner available for viewing "live" TV on the second tuner. As indicated on my document about the tuners, if a TV show is recording on the Edge, and the Mini tuner has been released, the Edge-controlled TV has access to both tuners. Hope that makes sense.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

What you say makes perfect sense. In my particular case, I never watch live on this mini. I only watch previously recorded shows. When the show completes, the Mini goes to "Now Playing". When it goes to live TV, it is going there on it's own. The last time I saw this was just after an EAS which is what I think caused it. Anyway, it doesn't bother me, it's just a curious finding.

Edit: Strike that. I just realized the EAS happened on an OTA Roamio and the Mini is paired with a cable signaled Bolt. So, it probably has nothing to do with the EAS.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

pl1 said:


> Note: Sometimes, I turn on my mini connected TV and find it is playing live TV, using a tuner, without any interaction. I think sometimes The Emergency Alert System (EAS) triggers it. This could cause more issues with a two tuner device.


Yes, if a Mini is not put into Standby mode, the Mini will broadcast the EAS alert and then revert to Live TV, consuming a tuner, at least until the default timeout (4 hours, IIRC).

Putting a Mini into Standby avoids the EAS broadcast and accidental tuner consumption/competition.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

pl1 said:


> Edit: Strike that. I just realized the EAS happened on an OTA Roamio and the Mini is paired with a cable signaled Bolt. So, it probably has nothing to do with the EAS.


Given how the EAS is supposed to work, I would hope that both your antenna- and cable-connected TiVo's would all broadcast the EAS alert.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

krkaufman said:


> Given how the EAS is supposed to work, I would hope that both your antenna- and cable-connected TiVo's would all broadcast the EAS alert.


Oh, OK.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

krkaufman said:


> Yes, if a Mini is not put into Standby mode, the Mini will broadcast the EAS alert and then revert to Live TV, consuming a tuner, at least until the default timeout (4 hours, IIRC).
> 
> Putting a Mini into Standby avoids the EAS broadcast and accidental tuner consumption/competition.


I was not aware of that, good to know.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Great info. Some notes/hazy recollections…

Preface… No real need to include the MoCA info. You could simply state that the DVR and Mini used wired networking, per requirements for the earlier Mini’s. Your document is applicable regardless of how the Mini is networked.

3 … Right-arrow function to list current tuner utilization isn’t available for Mini’s.

? … Putting unused devices into Standby mode should prevent unnecessary allocation of tuners.

Re: 7 … getting Mini to release a tuner. The Mini could be put into Standby mode. Also, related to both #7 and your final points, in the past, one merely needed to put the Mini back to TiVo Central to release a tuner; however, IIRC, nowadays, the Video Window feature now continues playing the video. To close the Video Window and release the tuner (possibly?), you might try clicking the TiVo guy to get to the “Home” screen, and then click either Slow or Pause to snuff the Video Window. (One of those buttons is supposed to toggle the Video Window.)

I thought I used to have a way to steal back a tuner being used by a Mini, without having to go to the Mini, but it currently escapes me.


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## GSG1802 (Aug 26, 2021)

Thank you for the input and suggestions, @krkaufman. I will incorporate them in revising the document when I get a chance. I am also going to test out the "stand-by" option and will include it if it releases the Mini tuner. I have never used "stand-by," so I had not even considered that, but I expect it will work. I wonder if what you are recalling about a way to "steal back" a tuner being used by the Mini is the "push the TiVo button twice" option? I did find a discussion thread from 2015 about that, which included a link to a TiVo support article regarding that option. However, users were questioning why TiVo had posted an article about it, because it didn't work. I clicked on the link that was posted - - - it no longer works, so I assume it was removed by TiVo.

Regarding the MoCA information, I only included it so that anyone reading the document will know the specific configuration and devices I was using for the tests. Therefore, I will probably leave it in for that limited purpose, but I will definitely incorporate your point that the tuner release info applies regardless of how the Mini is networked.

Although I have owned TiVo DVRs for about 14 years, I have only recently joined the TiVo Community, because of the problems I "thought" were occurring my Edge. I have to say that other than the first TiVo support tech I talked to recently (who spent about 45 minutes going through the network troubleshooting), others (whether in Sales or Support) have not been helpful. They should have been able to pick up on the need to "release" a tuner for use by the Mini. Also, they should have a better understanding of what the "V88" message actually means. One rep told me that the Mini will not work with the Edge, but I have demonstrated that it does. Each individual I talked to was somewhat difficult to clearly communicate with, so I asked to speak with someone located in the U.S. I was told that all I could do is call back, but there was no guarantee as to who I would talk to. So far, they have all been in the Philippines. TiVo has not responded to my written request for someone in the U.S. to call me, which is why I decided to do my own testing to figure out what was causing the issues I was having.

Again, thanks for the input and discussion.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

GSG1802 said:


> I wonder if what you are recalling about a way to "steal back" a tuner being used by the Mini is the "push the TiVo button twice" option?


No, I was thinking it was some method that allowed stealing a tuner without having to physically go to the controlling device. (It's also possible my recollection has it backwards, as to which device was local and which remote.)

At this point, please forget that I mentioned it.


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## twalsh22 (Aug 28, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Great info. Some notes/hazy recollections&#8230;
> 
> I thought I used to have a way to steal back a tuner being used by a Mini, without having to go to the Mini, but it currently escapes me.


I use the TiVo app on my phone to release a tuner without going to the Mini. From the menu select the Mini then select Remote Control then tap the TiVo guy button. Tuner released.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk


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## GSG1802 (Aug 26, 2021)

Interesting, @twalsh22. I gave that a try, but I could not get my Mini to release the tuner it was using. I still had to switch the Mini to watch a recorded show (or switch to an app.) It didn't matter if I was in the room with the Edge or the room with the Mini when I did as you described. I did first confirm that the app remote was working correctly for each device (after I selected either the Edge or Mini.) After trying to release the Mini-controlled tuner, my Edge-controlled TV continued to show that the second tuner was being used by the Mini. Regardless, based on your experience, I will add your suggestion to my document as another possible option for releasing the tuner being used by the Mini, so I appreciate you posting it.

SOME QUESTIONS FOR YOU: Presumably, you are using a dual tuner OTA Edge, but which Mini are you using (i.e., the original Mini, or the Mini Lux) Have you tried releasing the Mini-controlled tuner while it is watching "live" TV, but the Edge is recording a show? Also, how do you confirm that the tuner that was being used by the Mini has been released? Specifically, immediately after releasing the mini-controlled tuner, when you press the right arrow on the Edge remote, does the pop-up window no longer show the Mini as using the second tuner? Thanks!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

twalsh22 said:


> I use the TiVo app on my phone to release a tuner without going to the Mini. From the menu select the Mini then select Remote Control then tap the TiVo guy button. Tuner released.


This would likely face the same issue I mentioned above &#8230; that this USED to work. All that was originally required to release a tuner on a Mini was to get the Mini to TiVo Central.

With later updates to the Video Window feature, releasing the tuner takes a bit more shaking.

You might try the TiVo app suggestion again, but try using the 'Slow' button after the TiVo guy, to toggle the Video Window.


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## GSG1802 (Aug 26, 2021)

@krkaufman, your suggestion to press the Tivo button first, followed by the "slow" button *WORKED!!* (@twalsh22, thanks for bringing up the process you used, because it led to @krkaufman's suggestion.) I was able to do that with both the Mini remote and the Tivo app remote. [When the buttons are pressed in that order, the Mini is placed in "standby" mode (essentially, put to sleep.) *- - NOTE: SEE CLARIFICATION/CORRECTION OF THIS POINT BELOW.]* To wake up the Mini, press the "Tivo," "Live TV," or "Guide" button on the Mini remote.

This pretty much makes the document I posted a moot point (except the whole process gave me a much better understanding of how the Edge and Mini interact.) I don't know where you learned that method of releasing the tuner, but it sure would be nice if Tivo prominently posted that info on their site. Better yet, it should be included with the documentation for the Edge and/or Mini.


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## twalsh22 (Aug 28, 2015)

GSG1802 said:


> Interesting, @twalsh22.
> 
> SOME QUESTIONS FOR YOU: Presumably, you are using a dual tuner OTA Edge, but which Mini are you using (i.e., the original Mini, or the Mini Lux) Have you tried releasing the Mini-controlled tuner while it is watching "live" TV, but the Edge is recording a show? Also, how do you confirm that the tuner that was being used by the Mini has been released? Specifically, immediately after releasing the mini-controlled tuner, when you press the right arrow on the Edge remote, does the pop-up window no longer show the Mini as using the second tuner? Thanks!


I should have mentioned I'm using basic Roamio and Mini 93000 running TE3. I just tried using the app to release the Mini's tuner and it worked as I described without pressing the slow key.

I know this is an Edge thread but thought the app would work just as well as it does for me.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

GSG1802 said:


> When the buttons are pressed in that order, the Mini is placed in "standby" mode (essentially, put to sleep.) To wake up the Mini, press the "Tivo," "Live TV," or "Guide" button on the Mini remote.


To be clear, the 'Slow' button doesn't put the Mini into "Standby" mode; it just toggles the the status of the Video Window, off or on. When the Video Window is closed from the Home Screen, the tuner playing live TV is released.

Not being in Standby, the Mini would still broadcast any EAS alerts and then compete for a tuner, afterward, in its attempt to tune live TV. Absent use of a universal remote programmed with the discrete 'Standby' IR command, getting the Mini into Standby mode requires following a different path in the menu. (see here)



GSG1802 said:


> This pretty much makes the document I posted a moot point


Not at all, it simply offers another mechanism/procedure for how to get a Mini to release a captured tuner. I'm not sure how it applies to the host DVR tuner usage.



twalsh22 said:


> I should have mentioned I'm using basic Roamio and Mini 93000 running TE3. I just tried using the app to release the Mini's tuner and it worked as I described without pressing the slow key.
> 
> I know this is an Edge thread but thought the app would work just as well as it does for me.


EDGE is TE4-only, so that's the difference. I thought the process had changed for TE3, as well, with the Video Window becoming more persistent, but I lacked functioning memory and the means to test. Thanks for the clarification.


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