# Tivo xl4 Vs. HTPC



## thebeast1190 (Jul 29, 2012)

I am hoping I can get a little advice from people more knowledgeable then me.
For the past two years I have had a tivo with rcn but on Thursday I am finally getting fios which of course does not offer tivo. So that leaves me with two choices the xl4 or build an htpc. I really like the look of wmc, dont hate tivo but it comes down to cost and what I am getting for that price. I can get a new xl4 on ebay for about $350 , the max I could spend on an htpc would be about $450 or $500. I am sure I could build a fine pc for that price but I need a tuner that takes a cable card so that (I believe) leaves me with Ceton or SiliconDust for $200 so I am down to $300. I recently built a desktop for over $1500 with an i5-2500k which would be more then enough but it is often used while someone is watching tv. Then there is reliability. I have read many reviews of people having problems with the tuners, I have never had a problem with my tivo. I wouldn't want to spend $500 and end up with a headache. So i guess it boils down to three questions. 1. Could I build a quality htpc for $300? 2. If anyone has used either device how reliable are they? 3. If you have used tivo and WMC is the extra $150 + worth it? I know there is a service fee ($12) but I only have about $500 available right now.
Thanks for your help.


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## lillevig (Dec 7, 2010)

thebeast1190 said:


> I am hoping I can get a little advice from people more knowledgeable then me.
> For the past two years I have had a tivo with rcn but on Thursday I am finally getting fios which of course does not offer tivo. So that leaves me with two choices the xl4 or build an htpc. I really like the look of wmc, dont hate tivo but it comes down to cost and what I am getting for that price. I can get a new xl4 on ebay for about $350 , the max I could spend on an htpc would be about $450 or $500. I am sure I could build a fine pc for that price but I need a tuner that takes a cable card so that (I believe) leaves me with Ceton or SiliconDust for $200 so I am down to $300. I recently built a desktop for over $1500 with an i5-2500k which would be more then enough but it is often used while someone is watching tv. Then there is reliability. I have read many reviews of people having problems with the tuners, I have never had a problem with my tivo. I wouldn't want to spend $500 and end up with a headache. So i guess it boils down to three questions. 1. Could I build a quality htpc for $300? 2. If anyone has used either device how reliable are they? 3. If you have used tivo and WMC is the extra $150 + worth it? I know there is a service fee ($12) but I only have about $500 available right now.
> Thanks for your help.


The monthly sub for the Tivo will run you $19.99 so that's almost $240/year. If you really need more than two tuners, consider getting a pair of used S3HD boxes with lifetime. Going rate for one with the factory drive (160GB) is around $300 on eBay. If you are patient you can get one for less.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

lillevig said:


> The monthly sub for the Tivo will run you $19.99 so that's almost $240/year. If you really need more than two tuners, consider getting a pair of used S3HD boxes with lifetime. Going rate for one with the factory drive (160GB) is around $300 on eBay. If you are patient you can get one for less.


Monthly subscription on TiVo is $14.99. Lifetime is a better deal.


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## tneison (Jul 15, 2012)

If cost is your driving factor, then HTPC will be the way to go simply because you don't need to pay for the programming guide or service. As far as building an HTPC for $300 that may be tough unless you really scrounge up some parts. If the HTPC will be the output to your TV for example as opposed to using an Xbox or another extender you'll need a decent video card, sufficient hard drive, etc. 

Based on what you said you already have - what would make the most sense is use your existing PC, add a tuner card and extend WMC to your TV via an Xbox and (that way your PC being used at the same time isn't an issue). You could do that for $400: $200 for a Ceton card plus $200 Xbox. You can save another $100 off that if you get them used on eBay. This is assuming you have a decent network though - otherwise don't forget to add that cost.

Having said all of that, I just scrapped my HTPC setup since I was tired of the troubleshooting and whatnot so I went with new Tivo Premiere's and haven't looked back since...


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## swerver (May 18, 2012)

thebeast1190 said:


> I have never had a problem with my tivo. I wouldn't want to spend $500 and end up with a headache. So i guess it boils down to three questions.
> 
> 1. Could I build a quality htpc for $300?


You could make a functional htpc for that but I wouldn't call it quality. It will most likely be loud and ugly. It will handle basic htpc tasks but most people will end up wanting to spend more to improve performance/functionality/aesthetics.



thebeast1190 said:


> 2. If anyone has used either device how reliable are they?


I have an htpc, started with wmc. It works ok but I would not describe it as reliable. Regarding your comment above about headaches, you will get them and plenty. Since dropping my ceton and getting a tivo, I use xmbc with the htpc for watching my movie collection. But it doesn't get used much compared to the tivo. My headaches have gone from common to zero. For what my family wants to watch, the tivo can handle 95% of the work without any babysitting. With the htpc, you are always wondering what weird thing is going to happen next. Caveat: this depends on not only the type of person you are, but also who you live with. If I was living alone, I think I might still be using my wmc setup. It would have issues but I was able to figure them out and didn't mind the tinker factor, I kind of enjoy it. But for my wife and kids, it was too much trouble, and if it breaks while I'm at work they are out of luck until I get home. That was the deciding factor that made me jump on a $50 premiere on woot to try a tivo. So glad I did! And my wife and kids actually like the tivo. They hated the htpc, too many bad experiences and it's hard to win them back.



thebeast1190 said:


> 3. If you have used tivo and WMC is the extra $150 + worth it? I know there is a service fee ($12) but I only have about $500 available right now.


Best bet is to try it out. You have a pc already so go ahead and setup wmc, it's probably already installed. If possible, get a cheap tuner card (maybe borrow one? just an older single tuner non-cable one would be fine, though once you introduce the ceton or other cablecard tuners, there is an additional layer of complexity and additonal headaches that come with that) and try it out, just on your pc first, without hooking to the tv. Unless that's really easy, often people have their pc in another room so it might not be worth it just for testing it out. I think the interface on wmc is great, just as good as tivo. The main problem with an htpc is the pc part. Simple things like turning it on/off/sleep that are never an issue with an appliance like a tivo become potential deal breakers on an htpc. Based on your comment about not wanting to spend a bunch of money and end up with a headache... get the tivo.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

tneison said:


> If cost is your driving factor, then HTPC will be the way to go simply because you don't need to pay for the programming guide or service. As far as building an HTPC for $300 that may be tough unless you really scrounge up some parts. If the HTPC will be the output to your TV for example as opposed to using an Xbox or another extender you'll need a decent video card, sufficient hard drive, etc.
> 
> Based on what you said you already have - what would make the most sense is use your existing PC, add a tuner card and extend WMC to your TV via an Xbox and (that way your PC being used at the same time isn't an issue). You could do that for $400: $200 for a Ceton card plus $200 Xbox. You can save another $100 off that if you get them used on eBay. This is assuming you have a decent network though - otherwise don't forget to add that cost.
> 
> Having said all of that, I just scrapped my HTPC setup since I was tired of the troubleshooting and whatnot so I went with new Tivo Premiere's and haven't looked back since...


You don't need much of a video card unless you plan on playing games with the PC. For HDTV, which is 2D, is doesn't take much of a video card to accomplish that.


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## dsnotgood (Aug 26, 2010)

thebeast1190 said:


> I am hoping I can get a little advice from people more knowledgeable then me.
> For the past two years I have had a tivo with rcn but on Thursday I am finally getting fios which of course does not offer tivo. So that leaves me with two choices the xl4 or build an htpc. I really like the look of wmc, dont hate tivo but it comes down to cost and what I am getting for that price. I can get a new xl4 on ebay for about $350 , the max I could spend on an htpc would be about $450 or $500. I am sure I could build a fine pc for that price but I need a tuner that takes a cable card so that (I believe) leaves me with Ceton or SiliconDust for $200 so I am down to $300. I recently built a desktop for over $1500 with an i5-2500k which would be more then enough but it is often used while someone is watching tv. Then there is reliability. I have read many reviews of people having problems with the tuners, I have never had a problem with my tivo. I wouldn't want to spend $500 and end up with a headache. So i guess it boils down to three questions. 1. Could I build a quality htpc for $300? 2. If anyone has used either device how reliable are they? 3. If you have used tivo and WMC is the extra $150 + worth it? I know there is a service fee ($12) but I only have about $500 available right now.
> Thanks for your help.


I had similar dilemma. I ended up with getting a premiere ($70) and lifetime for $399.

I am very happy with the setup and over the last 2 years....it has paid for itself over the fios box. Skip the htpc. Just get the elite plus lifetime, use code PLSR for $100 off when activating lifetime online at tivos website and call it a day. Also if you ever want to sell it, you will be able to get most of your money back since tivos with lifetime hold resale value very well. Can't sell old htpcs for anything. Also less headaches and works great.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

sbiller said:


> Monthly subscription on TiVo is $14.99. Lifetime is a better deal.


Lots of threads here with HTPC user experiences. Is it just you or do you have to please other members of the household?


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## WizarDru (Jan 18, 2005)

thebeast1190 said:


> I am hoping I can get a little advice from people more knowledgeable then me.
> For the past two years I have had a tivo with rcn but on Thursday I am finally getting fios which of course does not offer tivo.


Unless FIOS in your area is somehow different, you should be able to buy your own TiVo and then rent a cable card from Verizon. I have FIOS and do that with two TiVo Premieres. The rental fee varies from locations to location, sadly.

The better questions are:

a) how much effort do you want to expend
b) what is your budget over time
c) what do you or your family want to use it for

A TiVo has ease of use and some functionality, but it won't match a HTPC for versatility or customization, IMHO. But I love TiVo's plug-and-play functionality.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

The official price for Verizon FiOS cables cards is $3.99 each. Frontier FiOS might be a different cost.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

With respect to other people using the computer, you could use an Xbox 360 or the upcoming Ceton extender to watch live and recorded TV. That way people could continue to use the computer.



thebeast1190 said:


> I am hoping I can get a little advice from people more knowledgeable then me.
> For the past two years I have had a tivo with rcn but on Thursday I am finally getting fios which of course does not offer tivo. So that leaves me with two choices the xl4 or build an htpc. I really like the look of wmc, dont hate tivo but it comes down to cost and what I am getting for that price. I can get a new xl4 on ebay for about $350 , the max I could spend on an htpc would be about $450 or $500. I am sure I could build a fine pc for that price but I need a tuner that takes a cable card so that (I believe) leaves me with Ceton or SiliconDust for $200 so I am down to $300. I recently built a desktop for over $1500 with an i5-2500k which would be more then enough but it is often used while someone is watching tv. Then there is reliability. I have read many reviews of people having problems with the tuners, I have never had a problem with my tivo. I wouldn't want to spend $500 and end up with a headache. So i guess it boils down to three questions. 1. Could I build a quality htpc for $300? 2. If anyone has used either device how reliable are they? 3. If you have used tivo and WMC is the extra $150 + worth it? I know there is a service fee ($12) but I only have about $500 available right now.
> Thanks for your help.


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## turbobozz (Sep 21, 2006)

thebeast1190 said:


> I am hoping I can get a little advice from people more knowledgeable then me.
> For the past two years I have had a tivo with rcn but on Thursday I am finally getting fios which of course does not offer tivo. So that leaves me with two choices the xl4 or build an htpc. I really like the look of wmc, dont hate tivo but it comes down to cost and what I am getting for that price. I can get a new xl4 on ebay for about $350 , the max I could spend on an htpc would be about $450 or $500. I am sure I could build a fine pc for that price but I need a tuner that takes a cable card so that (I believe) leaves me with Ceton or SiliconDust for $200 so I am down to $300. I recently built a desktop for over $1500 with an i5-2500k which would be more then enough but it is often used while someone is watching tv. Then there is reliability. I have read many reviews of people having problems with the tuners, I have never had a problem with my tivo. I wouldn't want to spend $500 and end up with a headache. So i guess it boils down to three questions. 1. Could I build a quality htpc for $300? 2. If anyone has used either device how reliable are they? 3. If you have used tivo and WMC is the extra $150 + worth it? I know there is a service fee ($12) but I only have about $500 available right now.
> Thanks for your help.


I recommend that you stick with TiVo given how you've described your situation.
You already know you like TiVo and you are nervous about problems and possible unseen costs associated with experimenting with WMC.

That being said... SiliconDust and Ceton both have very good support teams.
I have SiliconDust network OTA tuners and a Ceton PCI cablecard (4x) tuner.
They've both been great companies to work with.
I don't particularly think I've had any hardware reliability issues with either aside from a lightning strike.
Ceton I think had a couple driver issues along the way, but I was one of the crazy people who pre-ordered the card and ran beta drivers/firmware occasionally.
I use an i7 lynnfield to stream WMC to xboxes... That's been my main DVR for the past few years.
My Premiere's HD just died, so I'm actually not even running any TiVo at all for the first time in a very long time. (No great loss for me right now since I honestly haven't even used the Premiere for anything in many, many months.)
I'm rather ambivalent at this point in time in the WMC vs. TiVo debate... They are both fairly workable for me right now.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

The cost of ownership for a 4-tuner Tivo with lifetime vs. an HTPC with a Ceton InfiniTV4 is fairly even, depending on how you build your HTPC. The real savings comes into play when you want to add more tuners to the HTPC. Since the 4-tuner Tivo doesn't offer OTA reception, this can be easily added to an HTPC at minimal cost. If you want more Tivo tuners, you have to buy additional Tivos with service fees attached. There are no recurring fees with an HTPC other than the cablecard rental, which you'd have to pay for with a Tivo as well.

Here's one of the best resources you'll find for info on HTPCs:

http://assassinhtpcblog.com/

The cost to gain access to Assassin's detailed guides is $25 for lifetime access, but it's well worth the cost of admission. I believe he has some free guides there as well so you can see what he has to offer.

A basic PC can be purchased for $300 or so unless you want to get fancy and put everything in a component style case. There are numerous deal websites, such as dealnews.com, slickdeals.net, woot.com, 1saleaday.com, etc., that routinely list specials on turnkey PCs in the price range you're looking for.

HTPCs are great when they're working. If you're building one for personal use and don't mind tinkering from time to time then I'd highly recommend one. If you're considering one for the rest of the family, I'd stick with a Tivo. The downside of using extenders is if the main PC goes down, all of the extenders are down as well, which tends to lead to a family rebellion until you get the main PC back up and running. OTOH, today's hardware and software make setting up and maintaining an HTPC fairly easy with minimal down time.

I've been using HTPCs in place of my Tivos for over five years now and I wouldn't even consider going back. I tried using extenders, but as I was having issues with the PC at the time it didn't go over so well. I replaced the extender with one of my Tivos for a short period and then replaced the Tivo with another standalone PC, which my wife uses for watching TV in the family room. So far she's been very accepting of the HTPC and it's been running fine with very few problems.

I've got a 3-tuner SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime cablecard tuner connected to my network that supplies a FIOS TV signal to every PC connected to the network. My primary HTPC also has access to the SD HDHR Prime but mainly uses a pair of InfiniTV4 tuners internal to the HTPC for FIOS reception. I have a standard dual tuner HDHomeRun for local OTA HD channels that are shared. The main HTPC also has a pair of dual tuner Hauppauge 2250's for OTA recording.

My recommendation would be to get yourself a tuner and install it in an existing Windows 7 PC and try it out for a while before taking the plunge. If you don't like it you can always sell it on ebay and get your money back. If you do like it then you can invest in a PC knowing what it is you're getting into.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

"when they're working".. yeah.. Even the guy from Engadget HD who raves about Windows Media Center says that Tivos are more reliable.

I do hope that the Ceton "appliance like" box is reliable (even though I realize it's essentially just a HTPC).. it's good to have competition.. though I'll probably have a Premiere 4 by then.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I've definitely had more issues with HTPCs than Tivos over the years, but once you get an HTPC setup and properly configured there's no reason it can't be as reliable as a Tivo. I've got several HTPCs that have been up and running with virtually no problems for over two years. Tivos are a fixed configuration that is designed with specific tasks in mind. A HTPC is a full-blown computer that can come in a multitude of hardware and software configurations and be used for a variety of tasks. Due to the complexity of a PC, it's bound to have more issues than a CE device.

Like I said, start with a tuner in a Windows 7 PC that's already working and stable and see if Windows Media Center is your cup of tea. If you have an OTA antenna, the original SiliconDust dual tuner HDHomeRun can be had on ebay for about $30-50. That's basically how I got started with mine over five years ago to supplement my HDTivos for recording local channels when I had DirecTV.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

mr.unnatural said:


> The cost of ownership for a 4-tuner Tivo with lifetime vs. an HTPC with a Ceton InfiniTV4 is fairly even, depending on how you build your HTPC. The real savings comes into play when you want to add more tuners to the HTPC. Since the 4-tuner Tivo doesn't offer OTA reception, this can be easily added to an HTPC at minimal cost. If you want more Tivo tuners, you have to buy additional Tivos with service fees attached. There are no recurring fees with an HTPC other than the cablecard rental, which you'd have to pay for with a Tivo as well.


And it's not just tuners, the cost advantage of the HTPC increases greatly when you want to add extenders vs. more Tivos. A 4 tuner PC with a couple of extenders is way cheaper than 3 Tivos. I don't have many problems with my Xboxes and the Linksys DMA2100 but only use them for live and recorded TV.

But this could change in the fall if Tivo releases the Mini IP STB at a decent price, with no sub fee.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

My windows 7 computer runs fine. I have to reboot it about 1 time a week because of software updates. sometimes a windows update will reboot the computer for you.



mattack said:


> "when they're working".. yeah.. Even the guy from Engadget HD who raves about Windows Media Center says that Tivos are more reliable.
> 
> I do hope that the Ceton "appliance like" box is reliable (even though I realize it's essentially just a HTPC).. it's good to have competition.. though I'll probably have a Premiere 4 by then.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

tootal2 said:


> My windows 7 computer runs fine. I have to reboot it about 1 time a week because of software updates. sometimes a windows update will reboot the computer for you.


You really should change the option to allow updates to be downloaded but not installed unless you approve them. This lets you to see what's being updated and allows you to install them at your leisure and not let Windows reboot spontaneously after installing any updates automatically.

You should check and see what updates you're getting before letting Windows install them at random. For example, Windows has a tendency to install generic driver updates for hardware in your PC instead of getting them directly from the manufacturer's website, which could end up doing more harm than good. I never allow Windows to install any drivers unless they're for Microsoft products. If I see a driver update being offered I'll hide the update and then check for an actual update from the manufacturer's website.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

I think some cost should be attributed to the time and effort it takes to assemble the HTPC and install windows and then the ongoing task of managing windows updates.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

HTPCs are a labor of love. How do you put a price on that?

I can generally put together all of the hardware for a PC in less than an hour. I can also install Windows with minimal interaction. I'll initiate the installation and then just let it do its thing while I go about my business. The next time I check on the progress I may have to click a few buttons to get past some prompts until the process completes. 

Installing the huge backlog of Windows updates tends to take the longest, but it's only because it has to be done in stages. Select the updates you want from the list you're presented and let it do its thing. You may get an occasional prompt before it will continue, but it doesn't happen all that often. Overall, I can get an HTPC built and configured in about a half day. It mostly depends on how much software you install. If you add a lot of extra hardware it's going to require drivers and possibly some configuration of parameters and user options.

I like to set it up so I can take care of any interactions while I'm watching TV or surfing the web. My main PC is in the next room so I just poke my head out and see how it's going while doing other things. It's not like you have to babysit the PC while the installation is taking place. I sometimes just do things piecemeal and spread the installation over several days as I can get to it. The bottom line is that the actual amount of time you have to dedicate to the installation and setup may only amount to a few hours at most.

Performing periodic Windows updates is no more taxing than getting your Tivo to dial in manually and check for updates or get the latest guide data.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

My wife and kids like our htpc. It works fine, but does do a few odd things.

Reboots. I have had a couple in 10 months. One time I was gone for 3 weeks this summer and missed an episode of Breaking Bad and had to purchase it. Not sure what happened. But looks like WMC crashed and didn't come back up.

I got a BSOD once. And got 2 or 3 errors where essentially Windows said my hard drive can't be found. Reboot took care of it. 

I still get false error messages popping up. They come in waves and disappear for weeks and then start coming again. They either say the show you want to record is copy protected or has low signal and can't be recorded. Meanwhile the shows are being recorded just fine.

An annoying random minor interface error is when I delete a show after watching it, WMC takes me back to the list of tv shows, but not before sometimes suddenly moving to/scrolling down the list to some random location a few screens away in the list of shows. 

WMCs season pass list is a bit buried in menus. No direct way to get to it.

But all in all WMC is way more responsive, has a great tv guide layout, records what you want recorded, works great with a 360 extender, ... I also put some of my music and movies on there. And have iTunes on there as well which can talk to iTunes on my other computers.


If TiVo gets more responsive I would consider going back to it. On the other hand I am probably going to get another extender and then let my htpc do double duty as a 2nd pc for the family and see how that goes. As that will only increase the value of the setup. Although there are downsides there as well. You are running an extender and the pc at the same time. And a 360 extender isn't that power efficient. The responsiveness isn't as good as WMC hooked up to the tv directly although seems better than Tivo at least compared to navigating any menus in Tivo.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

trip1eX said:


> I still get false error messages popping up. They come in waves and disappear for weeks and then start coming again. They either say the show you want to record is copy protected or has low signal and can't be recorded. Meanwhile the shows are being recorded just fine.
> 
> WMCs season pass list is a bit buried in menus. No direct way to get to it.


Reboots could be caused by automatic updates if you have it set up that way. Otherwise, I'd say you've got some instability in your setup that's causing unwanted reboots. You might want to consider a fresh install from scratch. At the very least try uninstalling any drivers and update them with the latest versions. Then, try repeating WMC TV setup and see if that helps.

I get similar error messages from time to time, but never missed a recording. There is apparently a delay between the time WMC polls for available tuners before the tuner actually initiates and acknowledges that it's ready. I would love to see a fix for this, but it's more of a nuisance than a problem.

The WMC season pass list is easily accessed from the recorded TV list by going to the "Add Recording" option at the top of the list and then selecting "Series" on the To Do list. My Harmony One remote has a lot of menu buttons on the LCD display that give me direct access to a number of menu items, but I don't recall if that's one of them. You could probably create a macro to take you to the list with a single button press.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

mr.unnatural said:


> Reboots could be caused by automatic updates if you have it set up that way. Otherwise, I'd say you've got some instability in your setup that's causing unwanted reboots. You might want to consider a fresh install from scratch. At the very least try uninstalling any drivers and update them with the latest versions. Then, try repeating WMC TV setup and see if that helps.


NO automatic updates. And yep something is causing it.  It doesn't happen often enough for me to redo everything in hopes of it fixing the problem at least for the time being. I mean it has only happened 4 times in 10 months. One was a BSOD. 2 times I turned on the tv to a hard drive not found screen.

And then something happened this summer when I was gone as it looks like Media Center wasn't on when I came back. And there was a gap of a few days before my return where it didn't record a show.

But not like my Premiere didn't reboot or freeze a few times while I had it..... Series 2 was rock solid though. Not sure I ever had a reboot.



mr.unnatural said:


> I get similar error messages from time to time, but never missed a recording. There is apparently a delay between the time WMC polls for available tuners before the tuner actually initiates and acknowledges that it's ready. I would love to see a fix for this, but it's more of a nuisance than a problem.


Yep not a show stopper. But it does get annoying. Luckily it just doesn't happen that often.



mr.unnatural said:


> The WMC season pass list is easily accessed from the recorded TV list by going to the "Add Recording" option at the top of the list and then selecting "Series" on the To Do list.


Yeah but not as handy as Tivo. There's a few minor things like this that are more accessible on tivo.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Another difference is how each system lists your recorded shows.

Tivo lists your show folders according to the date of the latest episode.

WMC lists either recordings by date or alphabetically by show folder. 

Pick your poison I guess. Switching from Tivo I wanted WMC to do it like Tivo did. Now I guess I'm used to the way WMC does it and there are advantages to it.

You don't have to go in and out of folders to find today's recordings. Or if you have lots of shows then you can easily find the show alphabetically.

Also you can rapidly switch between WMC's 2 ways of listing shows. The option is right there on the screen. It is just another list like a tv show list, but always displayed above.

Tivo had another way of displaying shows if I remember right. I don't remember it being very accessible relatively speaking, and forget if it changed on the Premiere.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Folders can be sorted by date or by name. And with either sorting method, grouping can be on or off.

I prefer mine to be sorted by date and in groups. But I'm sure there are people that prefer it to be sorted alphabetically.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

IIRC, you can also list recorded shows by the original air date in WMC. If your recording was a rerun it will appear at the end of the list as opposed to the beginning if the original air date occurred before the first recorded program. Otherwise, it will end up somewhere in the middle. Personally, I prefer to list them accoring to the date recorded. I tend to watch the oldest shows first until I get caught up with the latest recordings. I'm a bit anal about watching recorded TV shows before watching anything else I have socked away, like movies on my server. I try not to have more than 6 or 7 days of TV shows backlogged at any time.


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## WizarDru (Jan 18, 2005)

This past weekend I decided I'd put my little Dell Mini 9 to use. In the years since I got it for free with a Dell laptop I purchased, it's gone from the bees knees to paperweight. With iPads, nook tablet and iPhones bouncing around the house, it's tiny screen and keyboard became liabilities.

So as an experiment, I installed the Ubuntu version of XBMC on it...and I'm pretty impressed. It won't replace my TiVo by any stretch of the imagination (as it's not a full fledged HTPC, lacking a tuner or processor worth a darn)...but as a media streaming device for my stored media, it's pretty boss. It's much more responsive than my TiVo, 360 or PS3 for gettting AVIs, MKVs, MP4s or other media off of the file server.

It's too weak to compete against the Netflix, Youtube and downloaded Revision 3 content on the TiVo, of course. And lacking a tuner and cablecard, it can't record anything. It also lacks anything resembling a decent resolution output (800x600 being what I use). It boots in less than 20 seconds though and is super-quick to navigate and is controllable from my iPhone, which is a nice thing.

Overall it's the best streaming box I have in the house...but it took me three hours to get it set up.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> I prefer mine to be sorted by date and in groups. But I'm sure there are people that prefer it to be sorted alphabetically.


Yeah, sorted by date in groups is by far the most useful day to day But I also use sorting alphabetically to find a specific show.. Can be very useful when one has pages and pages and pages of content.


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## blue_ironman (Nov 24, 2007)

I just got an HTPC set up with an indoor OTA antenna and Hauppauge 2250 as a test drive. So far, I've been more than pleased with how everything looks and works. I'm not an expert when it comes to PCs, but I'm not a rookie either. (Think someone who can install RAM, but not build the thing from scratch.) I was amazed at how quickly I had my stuff up and running. Ordered a pretty basic Dell (with enough RAM and HD space), the antenna, the tuner card, a wireless mouse & keyboard, and WMC remote via Amazon Prime on a Wednesday evening. I found it on my porch Friday when I got home from work, and I had everything up and running by the time I went to bed. I should also mention we had company that night, and I managed to find time to cook dinner and entertain them in the meantime.

One week in, it's recorded all the shows it was supposed to and in very good quality. It's easy to use, and I've now gotten it linked to my main desktop with lots of media and extended to my XBox. I'm flying high.

Now, I just have to decide if I'm going to take the plunge and see if I want Comcast. We're able to drop our Centurylink triple play (phone, DSL, Directv) and go just to internet, so I want faster cable internet in order to stream to the HTPC. But then with package deals, it's not much more per month to get my sports channels back....

Thankfully there's lots of good info on here about Comcast and Cablecards, but it also looks like I could be signing myself up for a lot of headaches. I am confident the PC can handle it, just not so sure about Comcast's billing department.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

The Ceton Companion app just came out it will let control windows media center from anywhere with your phone. I dont think you need a ceton card to use it. but it cost 5.00

http://cetoncorp.com/products/companion/



blue_ironman said:


> I just got an HTPC set up with an indoor OTA antenna and Hauppauge 2250 as a test drive. So far, I've been more than pleased with how everything looks and works. I'm not an expert when it comes to PCs, but I'm not a rookie either. (Think someone who can install RAM, but not build the thing from scratch.) I was amazed at how quickly I had my stuff up and running. Ordered a pretty basic Dell (with enough RAM and HD space), the antenna, the tuner card, a wireless mouse & keyboard, and WMC remote via Amazon Prime on a Wednesday evening. I found it on my porch Friday when I got home from work, and I had everything up and running by the time I went to bed. I should also mention we had company that night, and I managed to find time to cook dinner and entertain them in the meantime.
> 
> One week in, it's recorded all the shows it was supposed to and in very good quality. It's easy to use, and I've now gotten it linked to my main desktop with lots of media and extended to my XBox. I'm flying high.
> 
> ...


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I downloaded it to my Motorola RAZR the minute I heard about it several days ago. Now I just need to set it up on my HTPC.



blue_ironman said:


> I just got an HTPC set up with an indoor OTA antenna and Hauppauge 2250 as a test drive. So far, I've been more than pleased with how everything looks and works. I'm not an expert when it comes to PCs, but I'm not a rookie either. (Think someone who can install RAM, but not build the thing from scratch.)


Trust me, if you can install RAM then you can build a PC from scratch. It's mostly a matter of mounting the CPU and cooler, installing the RAM, mounting the motherboard to the case, installing the PSU, installing a hard drive(s) and optical drive, plugging in cards and then plugging in a bunch of wires. If you can handle a screwdriver then you can build a PC.

Connect a keyboard, mouse, and monitor and boot that puppy up. Go into the BIOS and make a few selections for proper boot sequence and possibly a setting or two (there are lots of guides that will tell you what needs to be configured), insert the Windows installation disc into the optical drive, save your settings and let it boot to the installation disc. From there it's just a matter of installing software.

FYI - only install one hard drive initially or you may have problems getting Windows 7 to install properly. Once you've gotten past the OS installation you can add as many drives as you want.


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