# DirecTV ups HD prices



## hybucket (Nov 26, 2004)

Phillip Swann (Yeah, I know, a lot of you don't like him, but...) says in his latest column that D* will be putting a 4.99 price on three of their HD channels now included in their HD 10.99 package. They will add three new HD channels for a total of 6 for the 4.99, but will charge this for ALL customers, not just those with the HR20 that actually GET the other three. I think that is highway robbery!
The article is here, if this comes thru as a link..
http://www.tvpredictions.com/dprices101807.htm


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

hybucket said:


> Phillip Swann (Yeah, I know, a lot of you don't like him, but...) says in his latest column that D* will be putting a 4.99 price on three of their HD channels now included in their HD 10.99 package. They will add three new HD channels for a total of 6 for the 4.99, but will charge this for ALL customers, not just those with the HR20 that actually GET the other three. I think that is highway robbery!
> The article is here, if this comes thru as a link..
> http://www.tvpredictions.com/dprices101807.htm


Uh, they will charge this for ALL customers that want to pay for the extra channel package. It won't be ALL customers, as ALL customers includes many customers that don't get HD at all.

They will charge the same fee for ALL customers that want to subscribe to the additional channel package and/or wish to continue to receive the channels that are moving into the new channel package (HDNet as an example). In some cases customers that only have MPEG2 equipment (looks in the general direction of the HR10-250 users and users of older non-DVR HD receivers) the customers will be paying for channels that they can't, but that will be the choice of those customers as they have opportunity to replace their equipment with equipment that can get the new channels.

Some stubborn customers may not wish to change to the new equipment, and they may be unhappy about being charged more money for fewer channels, but that is their choice as no one is telling them that they have to keep using equipment that doesn't receive all channels.


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## hybucket (Nov 26, 2004)

bdowell said:


> Uh, they will charge this for ALL customers that want to pay for the extra channel package. It won't be ALL customers, as ALL customers includes many customers that don't get HD at all.
> 
> They will charge the same fee for ALL customers that want to subscribe to the additional channel package and/or wish to continue to receive the channels that are moving into the new channel package (HDNet as an example). In some cases customers that only have MPEG2 equipment (looks in the general direction of the HR10-250 users and users of older non-DVR HD receivers) the customers will be paying for channels that they can't, but that will be the choice of those customers as they have opportunity to replace their equipment with equipment that can get the new channels.
> 
> Some stubborn customers may not wish to change to the new equipment, and they may be unhappy about being charged more money for fewer channels, but that is their choice as no one is telling them that they have to keep using equipment that doesn't receive all channels.


Yes, I was wrong in saying ALL customers..I meant that all customers who get HD.
And while I can't disagree that it certainly is anyone's choice as to whether, if they do NOT have the HR 20, they want to pay the additional fee, I will say, and I am certainly an example of this, that I watch Universal HD and I watch HD NET. I have not decided as yet whether I want to stay with D* when I move in a few months. In the meantime, I will either lose those two stations for several months, or shell out the extra $. I don't think that is fair, when the plan by D* is obviously to get everyone to switch over to the HR20, where they get their 2 year committment or whatever it is this week. To charge customers with an older unit to pay for channels they don't get just doesn't seem right to me. And don't bother to say, if you don't want it , don't get it. I already know that.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

hybucket said:


> *And don't bother to say, if you don't want it , don't get it. I already know that.*


Then why complain?

The answer is that simple. If you really feel that the few channels you'd be able to keep receiving (but would have to pay more money for) aren't worth it, then drop them. Heck, drop all of the hi-def channels at that point if you want as you'd be losing a total of about 8 channels.

You'd still get your hi-def locals with an HR10-250, but lose out on a few months (by your own description and expectation) of hi-def programming on a few channels. UHD and HD-Net (and HD-Net movies) would be gone if you don't pay for the higher package or don't get an HR20 or the non-DVR hi-def receiver (H20?).

There are options.

I don't fault you for not wanting to get into a commitment, but complaining that you are losing programming that DirecTV has opted to move into a new tier just doesn't seem like something to get that worked up over. If the channels are worth it, pay for 'em, even if you would still be missing channels you are missing right now.

Fact of the matter is that none of the proposed price increase happens for a few months anyway.


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## toneman (Oct 17, 2002)

If I'm reading that article correctly--come 12/15, any current D* HD subscribers (i.e., those of us who currently subscribe to the $10 HD package) who wish to receive the six additional HD channels (HDNet, HDNet Movies, Universal HD, Smithsonian HD, MGM HD, and MHD) will need to cough up (an additional? I assume you can't subscribe to just the HD Extra Pack w/o first subscribing to the $10 HD Programming package?) $4.99/month.

Are there any D* MPEG2-based (non-premium/PPV) HD channels that aren't part of the HD Extra Pack? I'm asking because if not, then yeah it would suck for me to be stuck w/ an HR10-250 for which the only MPEG2 HD channels I can watch on it will require me to pay $4.99/month. To put it another way--it would have been nice if D* would let us HR10-250 owners continue to watch what remaining MPEG2 HD channels still remain for a bit longer like it has been all this time, w/o having to pay extra for it.



> UHD and HD-Net (and HD-Net movies) would be gone if you don't pay for the higher package or don't get an HR20 or the non-DVR hi-def receiver (H20?).


bdowell--forgive me if I misinterpreted your comment (above) but are you saying that if one has an H20/HR20 HD receiver, one will not be required to pay extra in order to receive the HD Extra Pack? If so, then I didn't see anything in the article that insinuated such; as I said above--if you want those extra six channels, you have to pay extra for it (assuming of course you have the proper equipment to receive those channels)...even if you're already subscribed to the $10 HD package.


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## KurtBJC (Jan 2, 2007)

toneman said:


> Are there any D* MPEG2-based (non-premium/PPV) HD channels that aren't part of the HD Extra Pack? I'm asking because if not, then yeah it would suck for me to be stuck w/ an HR10-250 for which the only MPEG2 HD channels I can watch on it will require me to pay $4.99/month. To put it another way--it would have been nice if D* would let us HR10-250 owners continue to watch what remaining MPEG2 HD channels still remain for a bit longer like it has been all this time, w/o having to pay extra for it.


Discovery Channel HD, ESPN and ESPN 2, and TNT HD. That's it, I think.

I am livid over this one. Come December 15, I'm probably going to drop my DirecTV subscription. What a thing to do. Kick the TiVo users, and then kick them some more.

Kurt


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

KurtBJC said:


> Discovery Channel HD, ESPN and ESPN 2, and TNT HD. That's it, I think.
> 
> I am livid over this one. Come December 15, I'm probably going to drop my DirecTV subscription. What a thing to do. Kick the TiVo users, and then kick them some more.
> 
> Kurt


Other thing to look at - it has already been said that the mpeg2 channels where going to be migrated to the new sat's and that all of the sports extra packages would be mpeg4 also, so up coming you will probably be able to save the cost of HD completely on the HR10, since there will be no hd channels outside of OTA available.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

As best I can tell, come December 15, it'll work like this:

Discovery Channel HD, ESPNHD, ESPN2HD and TNTHD will be the only channels you'll get on MPEG2 (HR10-250, H10) receivers and in order to get them, you'll still have to pay the $10 fee (or is it $10.99?) in order to get those channels.

In order to get HDNet, HDNet Movies and Universal HD -- 3 channels you would have been getting as part of the approx. $10 HD access fee charged in the past, you'd have to pay an additional $4.99 a month to get the new package -- on top of having to pay the $10 HD access fee.

If you want to get *all* of the HD channels that DirecTV is offering, then you'll have to replace equipment. Either get an HR20 or HR21, or an H20 -- an MPEG4 compatible receiver (which also receives the MPEG2 channels).


Losing 3 channels sucks, and honestly, paying $10 a month for the few remaining MPEG2 channels would suck too, but you can get new equipment and get those channels and a lot more that are being sent down in MPEG4 format.

If you must have TiVo and want hi-def, then for now DirecTV is pushing you aside. On the other hand, they are offering fairly nice pricing on new equipment as long as the people taking that equipment are willing to accept a commitment of at least a year (for non-DVR receivers) or two years (for DVR receivers).

Consider the other options though - move to FiOS (if available in your area) and pay for a Series 3, or perhaps get a TiVo HD box, or accept the DVR that is provided by the FiOS provider. If not FiOS, then you are looking at cable and with a lot of uncertainty floating around switched digital video services, you could be paying a lot of money for a TiVo box that won't receive squat in the future. Cable companies would be glad to offer their own DVRs too, but many of them work far, far worse than the HR20 does and have just as many, if not many more restrictions on their functionality than an HR20 does too.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

sjberra said:


> Other thing to look at - it has already been said that the mpeg2 channels where going to be migrated to the new sat's and that all of the sports extra packages would be mpeg4 also, so up coming you will probably be able to save the cost of HD completely on the HR10, since there will be no hd channels outside of OTA available.


Very true. Eventually those other remaining channels are going to be dropped from MPEG2 also and switched to MPEG4. Slowly but surely the number of channels available to MPEG2 only customers will dwindle.

I should add above -- I forgot to list HBO and Showtime in HD which will remain available in MPEG2 format for a while, but still, you have to subscribe to those packages separately and only get one channel each of those in HD which is pretty pricey.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

bdowell said:


> Very true. Eventually those other remaining channels are going to be dropped from MPEG2 also and switched to MPEG4. Slowly but surely the number of channels available to MPEG2 only customers will dwindle.
> 
> I should add above -- I forgot to list HBO and Showtime in HD which will remain available in MPEG2 format for a while, but still, you have to subscribe to those packages separately and only get one channel each of those in HD which is pretty pricey.


think it will be sooner then late, seem to remember a post either here or on the other forums that the lease for the transponders on the current sat is ending soon


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## anotherloser (Oct 18, 2007)

:down: In my opinion if you don't wanna pay extra to get extra, yer payin for the wrong service and in my opinion again you should stop complaining...there is no other provider out there at all that can get you all the channels in hd than directv. Stop being a cheap skate, you get what you pay for, if you pay for a cheap service that's exactly what your going to get. just my opinion. :down:


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

With the installation of an HR20 to supplement my HR10, I'll be dropping two additional receivers. That will more than cover the increase.


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## KurtBJC (Jan 2, 2007)

bdowell said:


> ...but you can get new equipment and get those channels and a lot more that are being sent down in MPEG4 format.


I've had the DirecTV people trying to sell me on the new DVR for a while now. It just looks awful to me, and I don't much feel like giving in to them on this one. They need to get things back in gear with TiVo.



bdowell said:


> Consider the other options though - move to FiOS (if available in your area) and pay for a Series 3, or perhaps get a TiVo HD box, or accept the DVR that is provided by the FiOS provider. If not FiOS, then you are looking at cable and with a lot of uncertainty floating around switched digital video services, you could be paying a lot of money for a TiVo box that won't receive squat in the future.


True, true. We have an HD cable Tivo, and local cable service via Comcast; at the moment, there's no FiOS at our location yet. The difference between DirecTV and Comcast used to be a yawning gulf--Comcast had an all-analog system long after it should have gone digital, and didn't even have a decent selection of channels for an analog-only system. Now, the channel selection difference just isn't that big a deal, and the biggest difference up till now was that DirecTV not only had a better HD selection but also had more HD on the way (or so I thought--I had not known they were planning on abandoning the MPEG-2 boxes). Now that DirecTV is chopping off three channels of HD, it just is hard to find a reason to continue with 'em. It's always possible that the cable situation will get screwed up, too, and then I'll have to decide which screwed-up situation is less bad, and maybe that sends me back to DirecTV. But boy oh boy, I am paying those people a lot of money every month to get treated this poorly.

I don't think I'll be in a big hurry to pick up another DVR unless somebody finally comes out with something good. I have hated the user interface on everything I have ever seen other than the TiVo; my brother had one of the new DirecTV boxes for about a day and sent it back. Meanwhile, we're already a four-TiVo household; we picked it up in '99, only a year or so into our DirecTV subscription, and I always thought the synergy of these two (DirecTV and TiVo) was unstoppable.

Argh. DirecTV is frustrating me, and it's surprising because I have always had the best service and the best customer service experiences with them. Comcast stinks; its predecessors stunk, it stinks, and it will continue to stink; but I'm not running out back and farting around with a new antenna and all that business just to take on a DVR I don't really want to see in my house. As I said: Argh.

Kurt


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## KurtBJC (Jan 2, 2007)

anotherloser said:


> Stop being a cheap skate, you get what you pay for, if you pay for a cheap service that's exactly what your going to get. just my opinion. :down:


Funny. I have been corresponding with DirecTV's people, trying very hard to underscore the fact that I pay them a lot now AND would pay them more AND pay lots more for the box, if they'd just come up with the MPEG-4 TiVo. Budget has very little, if anything, to do with it; the issue is primarily quality of service. I'd sign up for another $4.99 a month easily if I didn't feel like they were already billing me for a lot of service that my receiver is locked out of, and for which they offer no comparable equipment. As it is, paying them another $4.99 to continue receiving a few channels seems pretty much like "Thank you, sir, may I have another?"


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

KurtBJC said:


> I've had the DirecTV people trying to sell me on the new DVR for a while now. It just looks awful to me, and I don't much feel like giving in to them on this one. They need to get things back in gear with TiVo.


I know this will likely invite RS4 in to the discussion so he can bad mouth the HR20 more or call people that say the HR20 isn't a bad box TiVo bashers, but here goes for the I don't know how many-eth time...

If you are really hung up on keeping TiVo, then it is getting ever closer to being time to crap or get off the pot. As others have said, DirecTV and TiVo are barely working together now with no new boxes in the works. DirecTV doesn't want to share the DVR fees that they collect, and don't want to share the the income from the hardware. That could possibly change if they opt to change direction under new management, but the numbers of people that absolutely refuse to switch are fairly small and easily absorbed in the regular 'churn' that DirecTV goes through on a monthly basis.

For each customer that absolutely refuses to switch to a new receiver (and away from the TiVo boxes), DirecTV is absolutely adding new customers that are buying into the 'MOST HD' promise that they are making (and delivering on). While there are customers that absolutely must have TiVo, the bulk of the customers that DirecTV has have DirecTV because they offer the best programming packages at the best prices for those customers.

There are football lovers that are subscribing to get Sunday Ticket, NASCAR fans that are subscribing to get that package, etc. And there are many people that are getting the new hi-def packages because those packages are the best offering of HD programming for the money.

I wouldn't say never when it comes to TiVo and DirecTV but I would say that holding out hope for that marriage to be patched back up would be a bit like expecting a miracle.


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## KurtBJC (Jan 2, 2007)

bdowell said:


> If you are really hung up on keeping TiVo, then it is getting ever closer to being time to crap or get off the pot.


Oh, sure. All I'm saying is "get off the pot" looks more and more attractive, barring some sort of major change. I had figured that the "die" date would be when Comcast added some more channels to its system, but this latest announcement makes me think it may be December 15.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

KurtBJC said:


> Oh, sure. All I'm saying is "get off the pot" looks more and more attractive, barring some sort of major change. I had figured that the "die" date would be when Comcast added some more channels to its system, but this latest announcement makes me think it may be December 15.


Not to knock Comcast, but if given an opportunity to go with Verizon FiOS instead, I would take a good look at them. Less chance of problems due to SDV (switched digital video) later, blazing fast internet, fair amount of hi-def channels on their video package, etc.

Their own DVR product is interesting in it's whole household aspect. You can record to the main server, play back in another room, etc.

A friend has FiOS for TV and has loved it so far. I still prefer DirecTV myself, but I had been tempted to switch to Verizon when they started offering FiOS in my area. (I do have FiOS for internet, and analog TV service that I run into my Vista Media Center server, just don't take the bigger packages from them.)


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

Moving to cable will be my solution if any channels are removed from my HD package.


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## pmturcotte (May 7, 2001)

Moving to cable will be my solution as well. 

And I'm sorry, but when you take away something I currently am paying for - then put it somewhere where you call it "optional" - thats a rate hike because I have to pay more to get what I currently have now. Call it whatever you want but if I've paid $X for Y services all year and now you take half (or a portion) of that Y service away and want to charge me more to get it back - even if you throw something else in. Thats a rate hike. 

As for the HR20, I wont go near it with a 10 foot pole yet. I've spent too much time on the dbs boards reading about endless issues with it. No thanks. You know how many missed recordings my HR10-250 or T60 have missed in 6 years? How about none. Not one. All my locals come HD via strong OTA signals anyway and thats really 80+% of what I watch anyway. I dont want some elaborate solution where I have my 10-250 plugged in as a backup box somewhere. 6 months from now, maybe it will be better, but until then I'll pass.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Am I the only one that's not shocked by DirecTV raising their prices for HD programming? They've been hawking the addition of 70-100 new HD channels for many months and everyone has been eagerly awaiting them. What everyone fails to realize is that these new channels are costing DirecTV billions of dollars to provide and the money has to come from somewhere. AFAIK, any existing mpeg2 standard definition channel that's getting a companion mpeg4 HD channel is included in whatever base package that provides the mpeg2 channel at no extra cost. If there are mpeg4 HD channels that do not have a companion mpeg2 channel then I can see a valid argument for charging an additional fee to receive them. 

However, DirecTV is pulling a fast one by charging extra for channels that used to be part of the original HD package that was eventually replaced by the HD access fee. The way I see it, anyone that is paying the HD access fee is already paying for the three channels currently in the lineup but slated to be moved to the new HD package.

Let's face it folks, your rates are going to go up with any new channels added to the lineup so live with it. Fortunately, I have FIOS and don't get charged extra for the same channels. I fully expect that to change when their HD lineup gets beefed up to start competing with the new DirecTV channels, but for now I'll just sit back and listen to the DirecTV subscribers whine about it.


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## pmturcotte (May 7, 2001)

Why would I be surprised by the attitude DTV has towards its subscribers? Its a business after all. 16M subscribers * $5 a month is a lot of money. However its nonsense to take HD channels I've been paying for forever and start charging more to get them back. Thankfully most of the HDNET programming is crap anyway.

We've been looking into FIOS as well but no luck in our area yet.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

pmturcotte said:


> Moving to cable will be my solution as well.
> 
> And I'm sorry, but when you take away something I currently am paying for - then put it somewhere where you call it "optional" - thats a rate hike because I have to pay more to get what I currently have now. Call it whatever you want but if I've paid $X for Y services all year and now you take half (or a portion) of that Y service away and want to charge me more to get it back - even if you throw something else in. Thats a rate hike.
> 
> As for the HR20, I wont go near it with a 10 foot pole yet. I've spent too much time on the dbs boards reading about endless issues with it. No thanks. You know how many missed recordings my HR10-250 or T60 have missed in 6 years? How about none. Not one. All my locals come HD via strong OTA signals anyway and thats really 80+% of what I watch anyway. I dont want some elaborate solution where I have my 10-250 plugged in as a backup box somewhere. 6 months from now, maybe it will be better, but until then I'll pass.


My thought and experience exactly.

Isn't it special that so many are in 'lala land' with the new DIRECTion. I can easily break from this crowd in a heartbeat.


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## ke3ju (Jan 5, 2004)

It surprises me that as existing customers, we would not be grandfathered in, and exempt from this $4.99 charge.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

I'm surprised anyone still believes that Directv even considers the HR10 when they make pricing and meg2\4 decisions. There aren't enough HR10's still active for them to care about them as a group anymore.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

ke3ju said:


> It surprises me that as existing customers, we would not be grandfathered in, and exempt from this $4.99 charge.


Had not thought of that. Anything is possible.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

ke3ju said:


> It surprises me that as existing customers, we would not be grandfathered in, and exempt from this $4.99 charge.


funny you say grandfathered. When i got the hr20 installed, i couldnt get in the HD channels in the 70s but got most of the new ones and all the premiums. I never paid for HD before this week. Well it got to the point where the 721 message was so annoying i said listen, i never paid for HD before and i'm guessing i'm supposed to pay for it now. Are you sure you turned the right package on?

She said yes it is on and i'm grandfathered in. It took 5 reps over 2 hours to figure out they needed to turn off the grandfathered package i never paid for then turn on the new one! I bet if i never said anything i could have gotten a bit of free programming but i wanted 'all' the channels so made a fuss about it.

of course i'm cursed with an lnb or receiver issue now but thats another story


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

HiDefGator said:


> I'm surprised anyone still believes that Directv even considers the HR10 when they make pricing and meg2\4 decisions. There aren't enough HR10's still active for them to care about them as a group anymore.


Well since you seem to know this ...exactly how many HR10's are currently active?

I would think that making this change to my package....which I am contractually obligated to for a 2 year period (of which around 13 months is left)...would relieve me of that obligation, as I had _contracted_ to pay for the existing channels at a lower price.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Sir_winealot said:


> I would think that making this change to my package....which I am contractually obligated to for a 2 year period (of which around 13 months is left)...would relieve me of that obligation, as I had _contracted_ to pay for the existing channels at a lower price.


I have to agree with you on that one. But I'll bet there is a clause in the service contract, way down in the fine print somewhere, that says they can raise prices during the two year period.

Even if not are you going to spend the next 6 months of your life fighting them in court? Doesn't seem worth it to me.


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## anotherloser (Oct 18, 2007)

look at it this way....the hd extra package is an extra package that you can suscribe to, to get 5 extra channels in hd that are broadcasted in hd 24/7, you are not required to have that package for any reason and you do not have to add it unless you want the extra channels. So stop *****in about how you have to pay more money, beef up your tighty whities and stop being so damn cheap, you can't go to any other tv. provider and get near the ammt of channels in hd anywhere i don't care what provider they are and you also can't get the mpeg 4 format either. come on man.


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## anotherloser (Oct 18, 2007)

oh and there is no fine print, its all in size 12 font.....look at in.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

HiDefGator said:


> I have to agree with you on that one. But I'll bet there is a clause in the service contract, way down in the fine print somewhere, that says they can raise prices during the two year period.
> 
> Even if not are you going to spend the next 6 months of your life fighting them in court? Doesn't seem worth it to me.


Fight 'em in court, lol ...nah. But I'll bet if one wanted to get out of their contract and mentioned this, D* might let it happen under the circumstance.

I understand raising prices, but it's unusual for a company to take something away from customers that are already paying for it, if they won't pay more. As someone mentioned earlier, folks are usually grandfathered-in in a case like this.

Thus, this feels like 'punishment' for retaining our HR10's, lol.

**Do you know ...or have any idea ...how many HR10's are still active out there? Many of us have gotten HR20's, while keeping our HR10's as backup and to record OTA, so I'm very curious about the number.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

For customers who *ONLY*  have legacy HD equipment (Hr10-250 or H10) they won't lose any of their existing (few) HD programming for the forseeable future. This new pkg only applies to MPEG4 customers. HR10 folks will keep UHD, HDNET etc).

EDIT: Added "ONLY" to clarify statement.


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## KurtBJC (Jan 2, 2007)

incog-neato said:


> For customers who have legacy HD equipment (Hr10-250 or H10) they won't lose any of their existing (few) HD programming for the forseeable future. This new pkg only applies to MPEG4 customers. HR10 folks will keep UHD, HDNET etc)


I haven't seen anything to that effect. Where did you hear that?


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

If he told you, he'd hafta mind wipe you and your entire family.


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## puffdaddy (Mar 1, 2006)

Sir_winealot said:


> **Do you know ...or have any idea ...how many HR10's are still active out there? Many of us have gotten HR20's, while keeping our HR10's as backup and to record OTA, so I'm very curious about the number.


I've seen the following numbers bandied about in the "Spring 2008" DirecTiVo software update thread (as Earl reference these numbers when positing why TiVo is supporting a new dtivo software release):

Active SD DirecTiVo subscriptions = ~2.25M
Active HD DirecTiVo subscriptions = ~250k

The cool thing in my mind is that by merging SD & HD dtivos into 6.3x, there's actually a chance that tivo will fix the bugs in 6.3x and thereby fix bugs affecting HR10-250s.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

I think you can also assume that the HR10's are being dropped at a faster percentage rate than the much larger pool of SD DTivo's. Roughly 35,000 DTivo's were being turned off every month during the previous quarter. With the rollout of the new HD channels and the deals they were offering on the HR20 all quarter I think the number of HR10's turned off this quarter will be even higher. However you slice it, the HR10's are quickly becoming a part of history.


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## toneman (Oct 17, 2002)

anotherloser said:


> :down: In my opinion if you don't wanna pay extra to get extra, yer payin for the wrong service and in my opinion again you should stop complaining...there is no other provider out there at all that can get you all the channels in hd than directv. Stop being a cheap skate, you get what you pay for, if you pay for a cheap service that's exactly what your going to get. just my opinion. :down:


You know what I find a bit ironic, given your "cheapskate" comment? Funny how some of these so-called "cheapskate" folks (not that I'd necessarily think of them as such, mind you) were probably also ridiculed by folks like yourself for being stupid enough to pay $10/month for just 6 or so non-premium HD channels all this time. Hmmm...seems like these folks just can't get no respect--they're called stupid for having paid $10/mo. for six channels, and now they're being called cheapskates for not wanting to pay $5/mo. for six channels.

Seeing how many of us paid *more than* "extra to get extra" all these months/years--and yes, when you realize that you can now get over 10 times as many HD channels for the same $10/month than as in the past, us early adopters did pay more than extra--IMHO I don't think it completely out of place to voice an opinion about now being required to pay extra for stuff that we had been "overpaying" for all this time. Yes, no one is being forced to pay extra for the HD Extra Pack, but don't call them cheapskates for complaining about it...not when they had been paying more for a much-lesser D* HD package than many other folks who may now be joining the D* HD programming bandwagon.


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## toneman (Oct 17, 2002)

Sir_winealot said:


> I understand raising prices, but it's unusual for a company to take something away from customers that are already paying for it, if they won't pay more.


Yup...sorta like what they did when they moved some channels that were previously part of the Choice package (e.g., Fox Movie Channel) into the Choice Xtra package...thus requiring that you pay extra if you just couldn't live w/o FMC (yes I know the Xtra package does not completely consist of channels that were previously offered in the Choice package but that's besides the point).

Continuing on this tangent--I see that, according to the D* channel lineup (as of 10/15/07), other channels (e.g., Speed, WGN, Versus, Oxygen, E!, ESPN Classic, etc.) that were part of the Choice (or whatever it used to be called) package are now listed under the Choice Xtra (nee "Plus") package. Has this change actually gone into effect, or is it scheduled to take place sometime in the near future? I ask because I have the "Choice" package, yet I am receiving the aforementioned channels (and a few others not mentioned here but listed under the Choice Xtra channel listing)...  Heck I remember back in the day when the Choice Plus/Xtra package contained roughly only a dozen channels (not including XM)...


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

incog-neato said:


> For customers who have legacy HD equipment (Hr10-250 or H10) they won't lose any of their existing (few) HD programming for the forseeable future. This new pkg only applies to MPEG4 customers. HR10 folks will keep UHD, HDNET etc)


link please, have hr10's and hr20's was told no go, you pay, if from a CSR would not hold my breath on that comment being correct


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Well, I can't say it wasn't unexpected. DTV is using the carrot and the stick to manipulate how attractive the new DVR is and make the HR10 a less-attractive appliance. I get that, the carrot was the new channels, and the stick is sticking it to anyone who doesn't avail themselves of the new hardware to receive them. But this quote:

"In the e-mail to current customers, DIRECTV says the six channels in the HD Extra Pack will be available as part of a "free preview" until December 15."

is a little hard to swallow. I get the privilege of paying 10 bucks a month to get a "free preview" of those very same channels. Not much logic in that. Karl Rove would be proud. I guess they had to pay for those 14 full-page ads in today's USA Today somehow.

So for those who really aren't jazzed by the HR20 or the 70 channels, and are still waiting for HD content on any of them worth watching, and who for that reason alone are staying with the HR10, what are the options?

Just what does "HD service" contain? If I opt out of it completely, will the HR10's work at all? What does that 10 bucks really buy me?

I'm really only interested in OTA at this point. UHD, HDNM, and HDNet keep running the same drivel over and over that they were running in 2003 (with the notable exception of the terrifically twisted "Torchwood", which is over by December 11th).

If I can get no sat HD yet still stick with the HR10 for OTA HD and SD, I'll be good until some content starts to sprout on the other 70. It will be a race between real HD content on DTV, life expectancy of my HR10s, and satisfactory implementation of Tivo on Cox Cable to see where I end up. I don't think the HR20 fits into that plan anywhere.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

TyroneShoes said:


> Just what does "HD service" contain? If I opt out of it completely, will the HR10's work at all? What does that 10 bucks really buy me?
> 
> .


before this week, i've never had an HDpackage on my 2 HDtivos. So yes it can be done. It's the channels in the 70s like espn and hdnet


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## Marc (Jun 26, 1999)

I currently have an HR10, but I'm not currently subscribed to the HD programming (to save money on my monthly bill), so this particular news doesn't affect me directly, but I'm still disappointed in this. I wanted to switch to an HR20, but the installer said that he wasn't able to get a good signal on the other two satellites with a new dish, so he couldn't let me have the HR20, so I'm stuck with the HR10 and whatever HD programming I'd be able to get with it.

Meanwhile, I've recently discovered that Verizon FiOS TV is now available in this area. I priced out a comparable package with them and found that I could switch and pay less per month. Plus, they offer the Starz!/Encore/Showtime/TMC package (25 channels, but I don't know which specific ones) for only $12, so that's an attractive upsell, with an extra $5 off if I'm willing to sign up for a one year agreement. Unfortunately, they'd have to get engineering approval before they'd be able to install FiOS TV at my home, so for now I'm stuck with what I've got with DirecTV.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

I never said it applied to those with HR10 *AND* HR20's. If I gave you a link you wouldn't be able to access it  . Do you REALLY think D* would remove 3 of the current ONLY 7 HD channels then charge $4.99 to get them back for customers with ONLY legacy equipment? If you have an HR10-250 **PLUS** an HR20 and 5LNB you will probably have to pay (not sure on that yet) but if all you have is legacy receivers you'll continue to get exactly what you get now for the same $9.99. The "special" package is called "Courtesy HD Channels_EXP"

Here is the only "proof" I can provide. I had to do some editing. If it's not acceptable, hey, what can I say:

Continue to receive same HD channels, but wont gain any additional HD channels. 
*Add Courtesy HD Channels_EXP so theyll continue receiving HDNet, HDNet Movies, and Universal HD after Dec 15, 2007. *
Can upgrade HD equipment (from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4) to get more HD channels included with base packages.

So if AFTER 12/15 they charge you $4.99 extra and ALL YOU HAVE IS LEGACY EQUIPMENT just tell the rep to search for "Courtesy HD Channels_EXP" package.



sjberra said:


> link please, have hr10's and hr20's was told no go, you pay, if from a CSR would not hold my breath on that comment being correct


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

incog-neato said:


> I never said it applied to those with HR10 *AND* HR20's. If I gave you a link you wouldn't be able to access it  . Do you REALLY think D* would remove 3 of the current ONLY 7 HD channels then charge $4.99 to get them back for customers with ONLY legacy equipment? If you have an HR10-250 **PLUS** an HR20 and 5LNB you will probably have to pay (not sure on that yet) but if all you have is legacy receivers you'll continue to get exactly what you get now for the same $9.99. The "special" package is called "Courtesy HD Channels_EXP"
> 
> Here is the only "proof" I can provide. I had to do some editing. If it's not acceptable, hey, what can I say:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info.
And to confuse things even more, some of us don't have the 5 LNB dish yet but do have a HR20. One of my HR10 was just replaced with a HR20 throught the DirecTV PP. I wonder if DirecTV knows I don't have the 5 LNB dish and should be eligible for the "Courtesy HD Channels_EXP"


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

TyroneShoes said:


> Well, I can't say it wasn't unexpected. DTV is using the carrot and the stick to manipulate how attractive the new DVR is and make the HR10 a less-attractive appliance. I get that, the carrot was the new channels, and the stick is sticking it to anyone who doesn't avail themselves of the new hardware to receive them. But this quote:
> 
> "In the e-mail to current customers, DIRECTV says the six channels in the HD Extra Pack will be available as part of a "free preview" until December 15."
> 
> ...


Wow. That is a lot of rationalization to avoid a specific DVR model.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Officially I don't know, but I assume you'll have to pay. It's only for legacy equipment (receivers).


hiker said:


> Thanks for the info.
> And to confuse things even more, some of us don't have the 5 LNB dish yet but do have a HR20. One of my HR10 was just replaced with a HR20 throught the DirecTV PP. I wonder if DirecTV knows I don't have the 5 LNB dish and should be eligible for the "Courtesy HD Channels_EXP"


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

incog-neato said:


> Officially I don't know, but I assume you'll have to pay. It's only for legacy equipment (receivers).


Hmmm... But I have seven (7) HR10's and one HR20 (not by choice since HR10's are not available to replace defective HR10's), and no 5 LNB dish. I'm still trying to sort out whether I have line of sight to install Slimline dish, so if that works out, I have no problem. If not, I'll become a SD only customer or maybe say goodbye to D* after 13 years.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

For a self titled HD evangelist, Tyrone Shoes (who has done a pretty job evangelizing on issues in the past, I know), you really seem to be a hater of DirecTV and the HR20. Why, I really don't understand.

The box functions as a DVR. It is not TiVo and never will be TiVo. TiVo's relationship with DirecTV is pretty much done, though it's dieing slowly.

If you want HD, the HR20 is the way to get there. That would include getting there with DirecTV on Demand, with remote booking (scheduling of recordings via the net), and other things that aren't there for TiVo users (either because of DirecTV or because of TiVo or both).

Hating the box is fine, but you might want to reconsider your HD evangelist status and title. You'll soon be looking at HD from other companies (by your own admission) and in doing so be leaving aside the opportunity to keep with a company that is providing one of the largest collections of HD channel availability currently.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

They do have the ability to assign packages by receiver but since I've seen no official statement I can't say for sure. I'm just speculating on that point. On 12/16 you'll find out for sure.


hiker said:


> Hmmm... But I have seven (7) HR10's and one HR20 (not by choice since HR10's are not available to replace defective HR10's), and no 5 LNB dish. I'm still trying to sort out whether I have line of sight to install Slimline dish, so if that works out, I have no problem. If not, I'll become a SD only customer or maybe say goodbye to D* after 13 years.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

hiker said:


> Hmmm... But I have seven (7) HR10's and one HR20 (not by choice since HR10's are not available to replace defective HR10's), and no 5 LNB dish. I'm still trying to sort out whether I have line of sight to install Slimline dish, so if that works out, I have no problem. If not, I'll become a SD only customer or maybe say goodbye to D* after 13 years.


If you have a 3 LNB now with no line of site issues then you should have no problems at all with the 5 LNB.

3 LNB - 101, 110, 119
5 LNB - 99, 101, 103, 110, 119

So if you have a clear line of site now from 101 to 119 then you will have no problem at all with 103 which is where all the new national HD is coming from. 99 should also be no problem since it's just to the left of 101. So unless you have a tree right on the left edge of your view of 101 you should have no problem with 99 either. 99 currently has some HD locals and will be where D11 goes next year for more national HD.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Marc said:


> I wanted to switch to an HR20, but the installer said that he wasn't able to get a good signal on the other two satellites with a new dish,


That installer is full of crap. See my post just above this one. If you currently are good to go with a 3 LNB you should have no problems at all with a 5 LNB.


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

bonscott87 said:


> If you have a 3 LNB now with no line of site issues then you should have no problems at all with the 5 LNB.
> 
> 3 LNB - 101, 110, 119
> 5 LNB - 99, 101, 103, 110, 119
> ...


You're assuming I can mount the Slimline in place of the Phase II+. Not so, because of the bigger size it will block the pathway coming out the back door on the west side and bang into the building on the east side. I'm dealing with trying to get line of sight through 2 trees and condo rules. I could mount the dish on the west side of the pathway but probably lose the 119 and maybe the 110. Maybe one day there won't be any channels I care about on the 110 or 119.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

For all you HR10-250 owners. You will not be able to watch those channels ever again with this receiver. Why? They are moving up to MPEG4. I just asked them today.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Bwahahahaha! 


Scott D said:


> For all you HR10-250 owners. You will not be able to watch those channels ever again with this receiver. Why? They are moving up to MPEG4. I just asked them today.


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

Odd. I've not received this reported email explaining the channel moves and new package. Maybe it was only sent to HR20 owners?


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## dscott72 (Mar 30, 2006)

As some one who just got the HR20 and a great deal that included a $10 credit over the next 12 months, sounds like this is a back end way to recoup the $$$$ that they gave out in deals for those wanting to upgrade.


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## 94SupraTT (Feb 17, 2005)

TyroneShoes said:


> Just what does "HD service" contain? If I opt out of it completely, will the HR10's work at all? What does that 10 bucks really buy me?
> 
> I'm really only interested in OTA at this point. UHD, HDNM, and HDNet keep running the same drivel over and over that they were running in 2003 (with the notable exception of the terrifically twisted "Torchwood", which is over by December 11th).
> .


I don't subscribe to and HDPackage and I have 2 HD-Directivos. I only use my HR10 for OTA.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> Wow. That is a lot of rationalization to avoid a specific DVR model.


B*** me.

With your wacky posting history you wouldn't know "rationalization" if it bit you in the ass. But that's probably explained by the fact that, as you've often demonstrated here, actually understanding a word with more than four syllables would probably be a major coup for you. There is no rationalizing involved in my decisions at all, period, and you are about the last person who could in any way be entitled to have an opinion about that, so butt out.

This forum is for discussing issues and asking and answering questions, and none of the rest of us appreciate those who use it only to whine and to snipe and continually take low blows at people and who never actually contribute anything substantial, especially involving a product that isn't even officially supposed to be discussed here.

I am perfectly happy with my decisions for exceptionally rational reasons, it has nothing at all to do with manufacturing a reason to avoid any particular product. There are already more than plenty of real reasons enough, and rationalization would hardly be necessary.

And whether I am rationalizing or not is absolutely none of your business, so break the pattern you have established and finally stay out of mine. Your post has in my opinion no redeeming value beyond it being just one more personal attack, and it will be reported as such.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

bdowell said:


> For a self titled HD evangelist, Tyrone Shoes (who has done a pretty job evangelizing on issues in the past, I know), you really seem to be a hater of DirecTV and the HR20. Why, I really don't understand.
> 
> The box functions as a DVR. It is not TiVo and never will be TiVo. TiVo's relationship with DirecTV is pretty much done, though it's dieing slowly.
> 
> ...


Thank you for stating your position without malice. It seems quite refreshing after what I've seen lately.

I'm sorry you perceive me as a hater of DTV. I think I have equal disdain for cable, DISH, FIOS, and DTV, meaning I think all are far from perfect, but I really have no hate for any of them, or I wouldn't be shelling out 80 clams a month to them, which gives me a right to voice my opinion, BTW. Being opinionated and able to form and present those opinions does not preclude me from being intelligent and rational in reaching those opinions. There is no emotion or shooting from the hip in what I say, I only say what I firmly believe, and I only believe what I thoroughly investigate for myself. That's about as much as I can aid your understanding on that subject.

No one has to tell me that the HR20 is not and never will be a Tivo. That is very evident. I have no argument at all with that opinion.

You say that the HR20 is the "way to get there" (HD). I understand the attraction (especially for those who don't know what's coming or what they might be missing), but it is only one of a number of ways to get there, actually, and probably a last resort for many.

On the other hand, I think your premise is flawed regarding "HD evangelist" and whether I can rightfully claim that as a forum title. My dictionary defines the non-religious use of that word as "a zealous advocate of something", and that still applies to me in spades, even more as time goes on. Having disdain for some of the ways its delivered does not reduce my level of zeal in any way. Being enthusiastic about something is not at all mutually exclusive with being irked by some of the parameters.

And having 70 channels does not give anyone a corner on HD, it is not an exclusive product associated with DTV, and I would still be just as fervent about HD if I subscribed instead to DISH, FIOS, cable, or none of the above. So I will continue to wear that designation proudly, as a badge of honor. But I appreciate the input. Agreeing to disagree is perfectly civil, which is a lot more than I can say about some of the other approaches used on this forum.


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## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

Tyrone, I was in the same position as you until my HR10 died, both the hard drive and power supply. They sent a HR20 as a replacement. After a few weeks it went back in the box and I repaired my HR10. Now with 3 HD channels I like (usa, scifi, CNN), I got it out of the box and use it as a 3rd and 4th tuner only for those channels.

I dont like the HR20, nor the fact that D* is forcing me to use it, nor the fact that it costs me $5 more per month but I rationalize it because "it is as good as it gets". As a side note, I have had 5 refurbished HR20s so far in two months and the latest one has a loose cover which vibrates with the noisy hard drive...... Of course, I got a two year commitment to go with the inferior product and price increase to look forward to.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

incog-neato said:


> I never said it applied to those with HR10 *AND* HR20's. If I gave you a link you wouldn't be able to access it  . Do you REALLY think D* would remove 3 of the current ONLY 7 HD channels then charge $4.99 to get them back for customers with ONLY legacy equipment? If you have an HR10-250 **PLUS** an HR20 and 5LNB you will probably have to pay (not sure on that yet) but if all you have is legacy receivers you'll continue to get exactly what you get now for the same $9.99. The "special" package is called "Courtesy HD Channels_EXP"
> 
> Here is the only "proof" I can provide. I had to do some editing. If it's not acceptable, hey, what can I say:
> 
> ...


Hmm ok, interesting that you cannot give the link..guess company confidential information then. so what happends when they more those channels off of the current sat when the lease expires, they have already stated that next years "sports specials" will be on the new format.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

I am ONLY referring to the current 7 CURRENT HD channels, nothing else. I can't give you the link but I could give you her name .... it's Doris. Giver her a call and say HI. She might ask you for some information you don't have before she lets you in. 



sjberra said:


> Hmm ok, interesting that you cannot give the link..guess company confidential information then. so what happends when they more those channels off of the current sat when the lease expires, they have already stated that next years "sports specials" will be on the new format.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Sorry, I didn't fully answer your question. When they move the 7 channels off 119 then you won't have a choice. But it's going to be a long time before that happens. HD Sports specials will be very soon, NFLST next season.


sjberra said:


> Hmm ok, interesting that you cannot give the link..guess company confidential information then. so what happends when they more those channels off of the current sat when the lease expires, they have already stated that next years "sports specials" will be on the new format.


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

incog-neato said:


> Sorry, I didn't fully answer your question. When they move the 7 channels off 119 then you won't have a choice. But it's going to be a long time before that happens. HD Sports specials will be very soon, NFLST next season.


I just read at DBStalk (thread was deleted) where someone posted a copy of supposed internal document. I remember this part "Discussion is also continuing on migrating 119 programming to the new available slots within the next couple of years." So apparently you are right that it will be a long time since they are still discussing it.


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## hauntedsoul (Nov 25, 2006)

Dtv Blows


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Yup, that's what I have been saying for months but all the doomsayers were saying they would all be gone anywhere from tomorrow until whenever. They'd be stupid to disconnect hundreds of thousands of HD people before offering every single one of them a free upgrade to at least a plain hd receiver. Logically it cannot happen for years just like it took years to kill off the old stream and swapping out old football cards. At the VERY LEAST the HR10 will get the good ole' 7 HD channels for the forseeable future. I said that months ago.

Another hint was why would they have promoted th HR10 "software upgrade" in Q1 '08 if they planned on orphaning the HD channels? Heck, I got phone calls, emails and snail mails announcing it .... not like they were trying to hide it. 

Most of the new HD channels are meaningless to me. There are a 2-3 I'd like to get but I work with HR20's (and all the rest) day in and day out and (for me at least) getting that box isn't worth the 2 or 3 channels I would gain. If it meant the only way for me to get my locals I'd have to give in, but I get all 8 networks OTA plus 2 or 3 subchannels of each. I also get the 4 off the sat (NY) as well.



hiker said:


> I just read at DBStalk (thread was deleted) where someone posted a copy of supposed internal document. I remember this part "Discussion is also continuing on migrating 119 programming to the new available slots within the next couple of years." So apparently you are right that it will be a long time since they are still discussing it.


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

ke3ju said:


> It surprises me that as existing customers, we would not be grandfathered in, and exempt from this $4.99 charge.


Okay, I'll admit I'm real late to this discussion. Just saw it mentioned in another thread and came to check this one out.

My queston is if you have Premiere Service, with HD, are you going to be charged this additional fee? I don't believe anyone has asked that question yet.

BTW, I have an HR10-250 and the HR-20.

Cheryl


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

I have premier and my understanding is yes i'll pay 5 bucks in december for the few extra channels. (actually i wont be paying, too much to watch as it is)

I did have a huge problem turning on the new stations, they said i was grandfathered in. But i never have had HDpak so that was utter nonsense.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

If you have the 5LNB dish installed, Yes. If you have 3LNB with your HR20 then probably yes (but you can call them and you should get a "free" 5lnb dish).


speedcouch said:


> Okay, I'll admit I'm real late to this discussion. Just saw it mentioned in another thread and came to check this one out.
> 
> My queston is if you have Premiere Service, with HD, are you going to be charged this additional fee? I don't believe anyone has asked that question yet.
> 
> ...


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Only if you have new equipment. If all you have is HR10's then no.


newsposter said:


> I have premier and my understanding is yes i'll pay 5 bucks in december for the few extra channels. (actually i wont be paying, too much to watch as it is)
> 
> I did have a huge problem turning on the new stations, they said i was grandfathered in. But i never have had HDpak so that was utter nonsense.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

I'm bumping this post I made back in October because it will be relevant as of tomorrow. If all you have is MPEG2 equipment (no 5lnb, no HR20 or H20) you may need to call D* and ask for the package below to keep HDNET Movies and UHD. If you have any MPEG4 equip you are SOL with a couple of exceptions depending on what type of property you reside in.



incog-neato said:


> Do you REALLY think D* would remove 3 of the current ONLY 7 HD channels then charge $4.99 to get them back for customers with ONLY legacy equipment? If you have an HR10-250 **PLUS** an HR20 and 5LNB you will probably have to pay (not sure on that yet) but if all you have is legacy receivers you'll continue to get exactly what you get now for the same $9.99. The "special" package is called "Courtesy HD Channels_EXP"
> 
> Here is the only "proof" I can provide. I had to do some editing. If it's not acceptable, hey, what can I say:
> 
> ...


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## adlerx (Feb 22, 2007)

I am new to all this and certainly not as technology savvy as most of you but I can tell you that all my channels are working and I have not been notified of any "tier" charges....


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

*After* the 15th.


adlerx said:


> I am new to all this and certainly not as technology savvy as most of you but I can tell you that all my channels are working and I have not been notified of any "tier" charges....


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

incog-neato said:


> *After* the 15th.


Still all free here. Today is the 16th.

EDIT: Same here. Out an hour after I posted. I am calling D*. Either they are free or I will look into Comcrap. Simple as that.
NOTHING ever from D* in my mail, billing or otherwise saying these were being removed or $4.99

I guess we will see....


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Hey, that's great ....... still getting mine free too.... despite this:

EDIT: Mine are gone .... My 3 HR10's and my HR20 getting 721's on those channels.



> HD EXTRA PACK Preview Ends
> The DIRECTV® HD EXTRA PACK free preview ends
> this Saturday, Dec. 15, although new customers
> signing up for this package will enjoy it free for three
> ...





gio1269 said:


> Still all free here. Today is the 16th.


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

I called and explained that I was getting x721 on 74 and 78. The CSR was not familiar with &#8220;Courtesy HD Channels_EXP&#8221; so I asked him to do a search. After some time researching it, he found it and added it to my account and explained that it just a 3 month courtesy for free Extra Pack and would automatically drop off my account on 3/15/08. I am not sure I believe it will drop off automatically since I could add the Extra Pack online and get 3 months free.


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## altan (Jan 5, 2003)

Happy to report that as of 10:30AM EST 12/16/07 I have the amazing set of 7 HD channels for my HR10-250. No more, no less.

... Altan


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

altan said:


> Happy to report that as of 10:30AM EST 12/16/07 I have the amazing set of 7 HD channels for my HR10-250. No more, no less.
> 
> ... Altan


So you didn't lose chans 74 and 78? I did.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

me too but with almost full 3 dvrs i dont need more to watch anyway


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

hiker said:


> So you didn't lose chans 74 and 78? I did.


Me too


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

If you have any MPEG4 equipment on your account (even if all you have is a 3LNB dish) you won't get it for more then the 3 free months. It's only for 100% legacy customers.


hiker said:


> I called and explained that I was getting x721 on 74 and 78. The CSR was not familiar with Courtesy HD Channels_EXP so I asked him to do a search. After some time researching it, he found it and added it to my account and explained that it just a 3 month courtesy for free Extra Pack and would automatically drop off my account on 3/15/08. I am not sure I believe it will drop off automatically since I could add the Extra Pack online and get 3 months free.


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## altan (Jan 5, 2003)

hiker said:


> So you didn't lose chans 74 and 78? I did.


Nope, it's all there. I don't have any MPEG4 equipment... Do the people who lost the channels have MPEG4 equipment in their house?

... Altan


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## Jim Abbett (Nov 6, 2005)

Boy, had I paid a dime for the new DVR, I'd be really pissed. At this point it's just a disapointment.

I see they worked out something with HDNet. Wasn't is slated to be only available for an extra fee also?


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## PrimeRisk (Dec 16, 2002)

Well, I lost the HD Extra Pack...the channels are gone <yawn>. The only thing I would have wanted it for was UniversalHD for BSG in HD, but since SciFi is in HD now I really could care less. I called in today to activate an old TiVo to have it active in the 2nd guest room for the holidaze (11 guests for Christmas). After the TiVo was up and running the CSR was very happy to tell me about the great channels I was missing by not signing up for the HD Extra pack. I acted shocked (What? You took away those channels and now you are demanding that I pay to get them back?) Yup, that's exactly what she was saying. I could get a 3 free month trial or deal without the channels. With all of the current discounts I have on my account they're not going to budge. I said she could keem 'em.

For my dad this is a big deal, dear old mom is addicted to some stuff on HDNet and SmithsonianHD and she's not impressed. He just got the old HR10 swapped to an HR21 for free 12 days ago and he never got any notice that he'd be expected to pay an extra $5/month to keep the stations. He had a heart to heart with D* and they agreed that 1 year of free HD Access @ $9.99/month and 6 months of free HBO was fair trade for adding Extra Pack at $4.99/month to the account. He said it would be a sufficent deal for the next 24 months of contract. He said he didn't even have to push at all, the CSR just gave it up.

My thoughts are these...at the end of the bunny trail we get 100 HD channels... The first 95 cost $9.99 a month and the last 5 cost another $4.99. Well, if those were really special channels it may be cost-justified, but they are not special channels (at least to me) and there is something seriously wrong with that cost ratio. I would love to see how many people are actually finding that the channels are gone today and are calling up to cough up the extra dough. I won't even take the 3 month free trial.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

PrimeRisk said:


> He had a heart to heart with D* and they agreed that 1 year of free HD Access @ $9.99/month and 6 months of free HBO was fair trade for adding Extra Pack at $4.99/month to the account. He said it would be a sufficent deal for the next 24 months of contract. He said he didn't even have to push at all, the CSR just gave it up.


What?

1 year of HD Access = $120

6 months of HBO = $104

Total perks = $224

HD Extra Pack for 2 years = $120

So, he got $104 in his favor.

Yup, makes perfect sense.


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

Well, as a legacy-equipment-only customer, after talking with a support CSR and a sales CSR, I was told by both that the only option for the two missing channels was to subscribe to the HD Extra Pack for $4.99, BUT, since I was such a good customer they would give it to me free for the next three months.

I gave them both the package name included in this thread, but they told me that package was expired. I got the impression that neither person was very experienced. 

Is anyone getting a "grandfathered" extension of the two channels, or just a 3-month extension of the freebie?


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Tell them to go into Doris

Select Sales Help on the bottom of the left side of the screen
Select HD Home on the "quick links" on the right side of the screen
Select HD ACCESS under PROGRAMMING in the center of the screen
Drag down to where it says "NEW" HD Access Migration - Migration details (based on customers HD Access code and HD equipment)
Click on HD ACCESS and expand it then click on MPEG2.

And they will see this (under MPEG2):
Bill amount wont change. HD Access is still only $9.99! 
Continue to receive same HD channels, but wont gain any additional channels. 
*Were adding Courtesy HD Channels_EXP to customers with MPEG-2 HD equipment and the following base packages so theyll continue receiving HDNet Movies and Universal HD after Dec 15, 2007: *
Choice 
Choice Xtra 
Familiar Últra 
Lo Máximo 
Opción Premier 
Plus DVR 
Plus HD/DVR 
Preferred Choice 
Premier 
Total Choice 
Total Choice Mobile 
Total Choice Plus

Then ask them to tell you why you can't get HDNET MOVIES and UHD added back if you have absolutely NO MPEG4 equipement.

Click on


Budget_HT said:


> Well, as a legacy-equipment-only customer, after talking with a support CSR and a sales CSR, I was told by both that the only option for the two missing channels was to subscribe to the HD Extra Pack for $4.99, BUT, since I was such a good customer they would give it to me free for the next three months.
> 
> I gave them both the package name included in this thread, but they told me that package was expired. I got the impression that neither person was very experienced.
> 
> Is anyone getting a "grandfathered" extension of the two channels, or just a 3-month extension of the freebie?


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## dburckh (Mar 22, 2007)

Same here. I have 2 HR10-250's and they cut off UHD and HDNM. Maybe it's just me, but the MPEG-2 stuff looks better than the AVC. I had an H20 and I sent it back. It was probably "sharper", but it had way too much grain. I know others say the AVC looks better, I don't agree.

After I complained vehemently, they offered the 3 months free. I'm almost out of contract. I may take the 3 months and drop DTV after that. 

Update:

I spoke with the a DTV rep. about this and they said that everyone with an HR10-250 is going to be losing UHD and HDNM. Further they are going to charge everyone the $4.95 for the 5 channels even though they can only get 2 of them (this excludes the 3 "free" months). I like how they are giving me 3 "free" months of what I had before to make me feel better. Unbelievable.

This whole thing is really a load of tripe.


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## PrimeRisk (Dec 16, 2002)

They're offering the free 3 months fairly broadly as far as I can tell. I got a general e-mail on it about a week ago. The free preview ended 12/15; signing up for the HD Extra Pak by 2/27 will get you 3 free months.

Anyone out there very excited about these channels?


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

incog-neato said:


> Tell them to go into Doris
> ...
> Then ask them to tell you why you can't get HDNET MOVIES and UHD added back if you have absolutely NO MPEG4 equipement.


All nice information, but it's like getting a dead dog to do anything but play dead. They won't actually follow a user's directions. And even if they do, there's no getting the "you need to pay us $4.99 a month" out of their stupid little heads.

I'm on hold right now for her to "gather more information". I remeber telling everyone DTV would screw this up.

[edit: after a call back after my cell phone dropped (low battery), they're back; I guess Maurice has read DORIS -- I don't remember who I was talking to on the first call. Now taking bets on how long they'll last and how much I'll see in my next bill.]


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Can't make it much clearer then that.


cramer said:


> All nice information, but it's like getting a dead dog to do anything but play dead. They won't actually follow a user's directions. And even if they do, there's no getting the "you need to pay us $4.99 a month" out of their stupid little heads.
> 
> I'm on hold right now for her to "gather more information". I remeber telling everyone DTV would screw this up.
> 
> [edit: after a call back after my cell phone dropped (low battery), they're back; I guess Maurice has read DORIS -- I don't remember who I was talking to on the first call. Now taking bets on how long they'll last and how much I'll see in my next bill.]


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## hybucket (Nov 26, 2004)

cramer said:


> All nice information, but it's like getting a dead dog to do anything but play dead. They won't actually follow a user's directions. And even if they do, there's no getting the "you need to pay us $4.99 a month" out of their stupid little heads.
> 
> I'm on hold right now for her to "gather more information". I remeber telling everyone DTV would screw this up.
> 
> [edit: after a call back after my cell phone dropped (low battery), they're back; I guess Maurice has read DORIS -- I don't remember who I was talking to on the first call. Now taking bets on how long they'll last and how much I'll see in my next bill.]


Obviously I missed a post somewhere or other, but...who is DORIS????


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

D*'s subscriber management system (what the reps use along with Rio)


hybucket said:


> Obviously I missed a post somewhere or other, but...who is DORIS????


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## NytOwl666 (Jan 9, 2007)

Hopefully the thought police won't kill me or this... 

DORIS is a commitment system for packages that expire due to some special promotion. It keeps packages alive for the period and then kills it when it expires...

Well, I had the channels go away too. They could not add the _EXP package in DORIS for some reason so after 2 calls and over an hour on the phone they put me on the air for 3 months with the HDextra package. They basically said that's all they can do and that I'd just have to call again in 3 months to complain and see what can be done then. The CSRs even get it!!! 

HD Extra is the right name. Instead of paying $120 a year for the 10 or so channels, I now get hit with a 60% increase for 3 channels that were already included before today! $120 for 90+ channels and $60 for 3 channels - over $180 per year - just to screw long time loyal customers! 

Small consolation is that the cost of the call for this was probably over $60 too and when I call in 3 months, another cost! I may not wait. Call every day.

Bottom line is this is blatant consumer abuse and unfair business practices. Perhaps this is the kind of activities that should be brought to the attention of the FCC when they consider fair practices and approving of M&A!?!?!

TiVoHD customers have been the most loyal to DIRECTV and have eaten $%@* for it! We pay more, sooner, and suffer untested launches that cause reboots, lost channels, and interruption of service with no compensation. In fact, they deny it >really lie< about it!

To replace my HD boxes they wanted over $1500 - but they'd throw one in for free - still costing me >$1200. Merry Christmas! And that gets me generic DIRECTV DVRs that have the worst interface on the planet and small capacity by today's standards. 

Our choices so far appear to be few. If we want TiVo the only choice now is cable. That would give us a smaller number of HD channels initially - but who watches all 100 anyway? We also get access to high speed Internet. And they at least are aggressive in acquiring and keeping customers - especially customers that convert from DIRECTV! Perhaps those that convert will get a commercial shot! "Yeah DIRECTV screwed us so we switched!" 

In the meantime, we need to keep the heat on them. Keep calling until the cost of the problem is more than just fixing it! Gee, just calling and hanging up after a couple of IVR hops costs them real money! Fire up the phasers and outbound dialers 

It's easy to drop a line to the FCC (FCC.gov) and CC your congressman about these horrible anti-consumer practices. Send many, send often. Might try CCing Liberty too so they know what they're buying into!

My TiVo gets me - DIRECTV does not.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

Thought police? Nah. Merely sell-bots running rampant... 
head for cover.


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## amoneys2k (Nov 2, 2006)

altan said:


> Nope, it's all there. I don't have any MPEG4 equipment... Do the people who lost the channels have MPEG4 equipment in their house?
> 
> ... Altan


Just MPEG2 equipment here and I lost UHD and HDNM.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

I too lost HD Net and Universal HD (HR-21). I will probably pay since I like a lot of the HDNet movies. But will I have to change my package from the legacy Total Choice to one of the new ones? I will have to do the math. Also I will probably drop HBO, since they haven't had anything good on lately. In fact I watch more movies on HDNM then HBO. 

Another thing it appears DTV has thrown the switch on is the Pay Per View recordings having an expiration date, although the dates seem to be all over the place, one movie I bought over the weekend expires 1_10_08 and another I bought a month ago doesn't expire until 2_10_08.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

DeDondeEs said:


> But will I have to change my package from the legacy Total Choice to one of the new ones?


You shouldn't...
I added the Extra Pack, and it did not require me to change from Total Choice Plus (a discontinued package)


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## buckeye1010 (Dec 11, 2002)

I have an HR10 and an old T60. No MPEG4 equipment. I did not lose any channels today - I still have the original 7 HD channels that I always got.


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## slydog75 (Jul 8, 2004)

So wait, which channels do we lose now?


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

DeDondeEs said:


> Another thing it appears DTV has thrown the switch on is the Pay Per View recordings having an expiration date, although the dates seem to be all over the place, one movie I bought over the weekend expires 1_10_08 and another I bought a month ago doesn't expire until 2_10_08.


can this really be true? HORRIBLE if true. you literally have paid for the darn movie, it should be yours period.


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## dburckh (Mar 22, 2007)

buckeye1010 said:


> I have an HR10 and an old T60. No MPEG4 equipment. I did not lose any channels today - I still have the original 7 HD channels that I always got.


They told me they are doing this to everybody. Hope you get to keep yours!

I'm wondering if you can keep them if you have some kind of premium packages. I just have the 44.95 package + HD + DVR 2xHR10-250 (mpeg-2)


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## NytOwl666 (Jan 9, 2007)

Evidently not. I've been Platinum/Premier forever and they hit me too...


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## mjbvideo (Feb 29, 2004)

I lost HDNet Movies and UHD on Sunday and tonight they are back. What the heck is going on???


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## slydog75 (Jul 8, 2004)

mjbvideo said:


> I lost HDNet Movies and UHD on Sunday and tonight they are back. What the heck is going on???


Do you have any MPEG4 equipment?


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## mjbvideo (Feb 29, 2004)

No I don't - all my boxes are good old Mpeg2!


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## LlamaLarry (Apr 30, 2003)

NytOwl666 said:


> Evidently not. I've been Platinum/Premier forever and they hit me too...


Me too, which is kind of okay.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

Mine are back on after calling them yesterday - thanks incog-neato:up:


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

I think it's just taking time for the training to filter down through all the call centers and for the reps to "get with the program."


RS4 said:


> Mine are back on after calling them yesterday - thanks incog-neato:up:


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

mjbvideo said:


> No I don't - all my boxes are good old Mpeg2!


Do you have the new sat dish?


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

mjbvideo said:


> I lost HDNet Movies and UHD on Sunday and tonight they are back. What the heck is going on???


What they should've done in the first d***ed place... actually grandfather people. How hard is it to find 100k subscribers out of 8m? It's one db query... one more than necessary to turn it off on all 8m.

I would not be surprised if they had over 100k calls on the 16th after the "promo" was turned off. The first woman I talked to was aware of the change, but not of the "legacy" policy detailed in DORIS -- took her 3 minutes to find it on her own, refusing to listen to me telling her where to find it. Of course, even after reading it, she still didn't know how to fix the problem; I got disconnected so who knows if she ever figured it out. Maurice just stuck the promo back on there to get me off the phone, apparently. (so in 3 months, they may disappear or $4.99 may appear on my bill.)


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## slydog75 (Jul 8, 2004)

Ok, the only only channels I've lost now are HDNetMovies and UHD. Does DirecTV really expect me to pay $5 for two channels?! That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I predict we will be getting these back shortly once no one signs up for them.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

slydog75 said:


> Ok, the only only channels I've lost now are HDNetMovies and UHD. Does DirecTV really expect me to pay $5 for two channels?! That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I predict we will be getting these back shortly once no one signs up for them.


Actually, I'm guessing that DirecTV actually does expect you to pay the extra $5.00. In spite of what Bones and some others say that DirecTV is customer - oriented, this is just another clear example of them squeezing the customer for as much as they can.

Some folks like to point out that DirecTV is at the top in customer satisfaction, but remember that whole segment of businesses is at the bottom of the heap, so in effect they are the best of the worse. I'm not sure any of them should be bragging unless it's WOW because they seem to be making a significant impact for their customers - hmm, maybe a real customer-oriented business??


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

slydog75 said:


> Ok, the only only channels I've lost now are HDNetMovies and UHD. Does DirecTV really expect me to pay $5 for two channels?! That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I predict we will be getting these back shortly once no one signs up for them.


I may have u confused with someone else but didnt you just get hr20? if so you technically lost 5 

edit, i see in another thread you do have the hr20 indeed


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## louiss3000 (Aug 5, 2003)

NytOwl666 said:


> Hopefully the thought police won't kill me or this...
> 
> DORIS is a commitment system for packages that expire due to some special promotion. It keeps packages alive for the period and then kills it when it expires...
> 
> ...


There is always cable, Then you could compalin about that.


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## slydog75 (Jul 8, 2004)

newsposter said:


> I may have u confused with someone else but didnt you just get hr20? if so you technically lost 5
> 
> edit, i see in another thread you do have the hr20 indeed


Which 5? I might not have known about the other three that I'm missing if I needed an HR-20 to get them before.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

louiss3000 said:


> There is always cable, Then you could compalin about that.


What's the matter? Don't you like him talking about a company that has decided to become more greedy and screw the customer?


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

slydog75 said:


> Which 5? I might not have known about the other three that I'm missing if I needed an HR-20 to get them before.


Universal HD, HDNet Movies, Smithsonian, MGM & MHD

the fun thread about it
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=112503


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

RS4 said:


> What's the matter? Don't you like him talking about a company that has decided to become more greedy and screw the customer?


An exactly how is this any different then any other company in existance to today.


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