# TiVo Dissatisfaction



## jacbec (May 15, 2012)

Still have lots of problems with TiVo: Season Pass set to Original Only, yet get multiple recordings of the original shows; iOS Streaming, get constant &#8220;lost connections, reconnecting&#8221; (my wifi/internet is constanly 50mbps +), never have connections problems with Xfinity TV Go; still no app for TiVo on Mac OS; lack of support for non-TiVo apps, like TiVo Transfer. Why doesn&#8217;t TiVo produce their own apps? Can&#8217;t mirror TiVo recordings to TV. Just general dissatisfaction with TiVo tech lack of innovation and keeping up with the 21st Century.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

I guess you should change to some other DVR that has kept up with "21st Century technology" then.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Yeah, I'm wondering how prevalent the iOS streaming/copying issues are. A reader in Florida mentioned it's mostly unusable in his setup these days (and I pointed him to kmttg until things improve).


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

They can't please everyone. Most people probably don't see a need to watch TV on anything other than a TV.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

jth tv said:


> Most people probably don't see a need to watch TV on anything other than a TV.


One of the prime benefits of choosing a Roamio Pro/Plus (and name of the device) is all about watching TV on other devices...


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

If I was dissatisfied I would have returned my Tivo under the 30 day return policy.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

sorry to hear of your disappointment. given individual uses and preferences, not every device will perform to the expectations of every customer.

i'm sure there are xfinity, directv, dish, fios, or u-verse customers who would never be happy with tivo. i personally can't imagine going back to a cableco dvr under any circumstances.


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## bikegeek (Dec 28, 2006)

davezatz said:


> Yeah, I'm wondering how prevalent the iOS streaming/copying issues are. A reader in Florida mentioned it's mostly unusable in his setup these days (and I pointed him to kmttg until things improve).


I have a standalone stream and it seems like it is hit or miss. Some days I can download shows or stream live TV without any issues and other days it just doesn't work no matter what I try. Its a bit frustrating but great when it works.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Season passes use the original air date to determine if episodes are new. That data is supplied to TiVo by Tribune, who in turn gets it from the individual channels. They can only work with what they're given.

Since the most recent update streaming has been rock solid for me. Prior to it I was constantly getting "problem streaming" errors but I haven't seen one of those in over a month now, and I use my Stream every single night. If you have a standalone Stream you need to make sure it's connected to the TiVo and your wifi access point via Ethernet. If you use wifi for any of the intermediate legs of the tranmission it can cause issues.

The Desktop software hasn't been updated for Windows in many, many, years either. I think the only reason they allow playback on PCs and not Macs is because of the decryption. On Windows it was easy to write a decryption filter that plugs into Windows Media Player, on Mac no such mechanisim exists so they would have to write a complete player. They didn't want to do that so they licensed the privliage to Roxio instead. (Toast supports TiVo file playback and transfer)


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

You are leading a spoiled life. Some people have actual serious problems with their Tivo's such as failing to tune channels and having to power cycle their Tuning Adapters frequently. (If you don't know what a Tuning Adapter is, you're lucky.)

As has been said earlier, what DVR compares favorably to TiVo?

The one good thing I can say about TWC is they have a TWC TV app for both iOS and Android that seems to be pretty good. Oh, and most of their technicians are nice -- although not knowledgable about TiVo-related issues.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

dlfl said:


> As has been said earlier, what DVR compares favorably to TiVo?


From what I've read none of the cable company DVRs do, but both the Dish Hopper and DirecTV Genie have most of the same features as a current TiVo. Never used them myself, but out of all the DVRs on the market I think they are the only ones that even come close to TiVo on features.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

jacbec said:


> Still have lots of problems with TiVo: Season Pass set to Original Only, yet get multiple recordings of the original shows;


Not Tivo's problem that the guide data is not accurate



> iOS Streaming, get constant lost connections, reconnecting (my wifi/internet is constanly 50mbps +), never have connections problems with Xfinity TV Go;


Your internet connection is not relevant. Streaming from your tivo to ios is all about your home network. Your xfinity tv app is different in that it uses the internet.



> still no app for TiVo on Mac OS;


It's never been promised.



> lack of support for non-TiVo apps, like TiVo Transfer. Why doesnt TiVo produce their own apps? Cant mirror TiVo recordings to TV. Just general dissatisfaction with TiVo tech lack of innovation and keeping up with the 21st Century.


You can do far more with a Tivo than you can with any other dvr, so this is just a matter of you having expectations that are simply too high. Technology exists, but it costs money and Tivo needs to build a product that doesn't cost too much.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

scandia101 said:


> Your xfinity tv app is different in that it uses the internet.


Actually it doesn't even do that. Xfinity uses the internet to talk to the servers, but then the servers allocate a QAM channel and send the frequency to the TiVo which then tunes to that frequency just like a normal cable channel. So no video is actually streaming over the internet.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> From what I've read none of the cable company DVRs do, but both the Dish Hopper and DirecTV Genie have most of the same features as a current TiVo. Never used them myself, but out of all the DVRs on the market I think they are the only ones that even come close to TiVo on features.


In some markets, the Comcast Xfinity X1 now let's customers download recordings to mobile. It's more restrictive than TiVo, but...

http://customer.comcast.com/help-and-support/cable-tv/x1-dvr-cloud-technology-download-faqs/

(It's unlikely I'd ever switch from Verizon to Comcast, but you never know.)


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

davezatz said:


> In some markets, the Comcast Xfinity X1 now let's customers download recordings to mobile. It's more restrictive than TiVo, but...
> 
> http://customer.comcast.com/help-and-support/cable-tv/x1-dvr-cloud-technology-download-faqs/
> 
> (It's unlikely I'd ever switch from Verizon to Comcast, but you never know.)


That's interesting. I wonder if their "check out" system allows you to transfer protected recordings too? Since a recording can only be accessed on one device at a time I "think" it would be allowed even for shows flagged as copy once.

If it does then it means there is precedent and TiVo should consider implementing a similar system.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

scandia101 said:


> Not Tivo's problem that the guide data is not accurate...


Since it's part of the service they are selling and we are buying, I'd say it is their problem, especially since they're paying Trib Media good money for it and they have more leverage over TMS than any of us individually would.

Note that problem and fault are not the same thing.


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## thalador (Oct 26, 2007)

It's interesting how every now and then when these threads pop up there are trolls who chastise and praise the Tivo gawds. It makes me not want to use these forums. Come on folks, a bit of respect here for those who opinions are not the same as yours.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

What do you want folks to do? It is pretty clear that the OP was opening up a debate. If they wanted help, they could have just asked and the team on these boards would jump into action. 

So, OP, do you want help or advise? Or are you just looking for debate over your issues?


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

scandia101 said:


> Not Tivo's problem that the guide data is not accurate
> .......





unitron said:


> Since it's part of the service they are selling and we are buying, I'd say it is their problem, especially since they're paying Trib Media good money for it and they have more leverage over TMS than any of us individually would.
> 
> Note that problem and fault are not the same thing.


Exactly! The guide data system depends on cable providers providing accurate and timely info. The errors occur when this doesn't happen. As always, the primary barriers to a good Tivo experience are the cable cos.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

I'm sorry, but posts like the OP's are the internet equivalent of standing on a street corner haranguing passersby about the cost of milk. Some may agree, some may disagree, but nothing productive will come of it.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> Actually it doesn't even do that. Xfinity uses the internet to talk to the servers, but then the servers allocate a QAM channel and send the frequency to the TiVo which then tunes to that frequency just like a normal cable channel. So no video is actually streaming over the internet.


The comment was about the iOS app, Xfinity TV Go, about not Xfinity On Demand via TiVo. And the iOS app definitely does use the internet to stream.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> Actually it doesn't even do that. Xfinity uses the internet to talk to the servers, but then the servers allocate a QAM channel and send the frequency to the TiVo which then tunes to that frequency just like a normal cable channel. So no video is actually streaming over the internet.


???
The Xfinity TV Go app streams over the internet.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

thalador said:


> It's interesting how every now and then when these threads pop up there are trolls who chastise and praise the Tivo gawds. It makes me not want to use these forums. Come on folks, a bit of respect here for those who opinions are not the same as yours.


Thalador sucks!!! He is full of crap. He doesn't work. He is no good.

AT least I know one person here will respect my opinion. 

/sarcasm


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

jrtroo said:


> What do you want folks to do? It is pretty clear that the OP was opening up a debate. If they wanted help, they could have just asked and the team on these boards would jump into action.
> 
> So, OP, do you want help or advise? Or are you just looking for debate over your issues?


It's pretty clear the OP was just trolling.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

trip1eX said:


> It's pretty clear the OP was just trolling.


a quick look at the op's post history will answer _a lot _of questions...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

scandia101 said:


> ???
> The Xfinity TV Go app streams over the internet.


I assumed he was talking about the Xfinity app on the TiVo. I don't have Comcast, so I didn't recognize the subtle name difference.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

dlfl said:


> Exactly! The guide data system depends on cable providers providing accurate and timely info. The errors occur when this doesn't happen. As always, the primary barriers to a good Tivo experience are the cable cos.


Actually, the cable companies depend on the content providers giving them accurate and timely info to pass on to TMS.

The content providers should bypass all the middlemen and feed that info directly to TiVo and let TMS survive off of re-selling it to newspapers and TV guide type inserts.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

unitron said:


> Actually, the cable companies depend on the content providers giving them accurate and timely info to pass on to TMS.
> 
> The content providers should bypass all the middlemen and feed that info directly to TiVo and let TMS survive off of re-selling it to newspapers and TV guide type inserts.


This is not correct. The cable companies get their guide data from one of three guide data providers.
Rovi which ones TV Guide, Tribune Media Services which owns Zap2It, and FYI which has TitanTV.
The content owners provide the guide data providers with their programming schedules. The guide data providers provide the program description from their own data base. The guide data providers are responsible for the accuracy of the data they provide.
The cable/sat companies are getting their guide data from one of these three providers. 
Rovi, who bought Gemstar, owns the TV Guide data base which goes back to the 1950s. They own the most comprehensive guide data base in the world.
Rovi just shutdown TV Guide On Screen after 15 years of operation. They now supply guide data mostly to cable/sat operators.

TiVo receives their guide data downloads to their own servers and then sends it to groups of TiVos at different time schedules as not to over load their servers and internet pipe feeding their server farm.
It would be to cost prohibited to allow all the cable/sat STBs and consumer devices to contact one of these guide data bases to get their guide updates. It will overload the servers and internet pipes feeding those servers.

My cable operator gets their guide data from Rovi. This data is then downloaded to the STBs about 1:30 AM each day over a specific frequency spectrum of their cable system. A lot of the local channels will have Local Origination for listings as they do not know how the properly access the TV Guide data base to get the correct listings. 
They just started to deploy the Arris setup, which is the Moxi setup. This system has to be internet connected as it gets its guide data from Arris servers just like our TiVos do. In fact Arris also uses Tribune Media Services for data. My cable operator can not figure out how to update the channel lineup when it changes. I have been doing it for them to keep my guide listings accurate on my TiVos.

In our case TiVo would be the middleman and TMS would be the source. Some of the monthly fee we pay goes to Tribune for the use of the data base. Cable/sat companies also charge a monthly fee to their customers for guide data also. They are charged for this service and it is usually buried in the programming or package costs to the customers.

When TV Guide will still owned by Gemstar they made a 10 year deal with Comcast to provide guide data for only 10 cents per subscriber per month. Gemstar did this in 2004 because they were desperate for money. This lucrative deal ends on December 31st of this year. Currently guide data is over a dollar per month per subscriber. So Comcast subs will definitely see a rate hike this year just for guide data alone. As I stated earlier, these costs are usually buried in programming fees or package costs. This means if you are using a TiVo you will get a rate hike for guide data you do not even use or have access to.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Well then, do TMS and others charge the content providers to be allowed to submit programming data to them?

Is there any reason content providers can't skip the middleman?


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Jed1 said:


> TiVo receives their guide data downloads to their own servers and then sends it to groups of TiVos at different time schedules as not to over load their servers and internet pipe feeding their server farm.
> It would be to cost prohibited to allow all the cable/sat STBs and consumer devices to contact one of these guide data bases to get their guide updates. It will overload the servers and internet pipes feeding those servers.
> .


Guide data on TiVo's are a pull from the TiVo client side 24 hours after the last download is processed. Your statement above seems to indicate it's a push from the server side.

Scott


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

@unitron

Regardless of who originates the metadata for programming (title, description, etc.), and who pays who for it, the cable/satellite operators have to provide the scheduling data. They make the decision in most (maybe all) cases as to what show airs at what time. Thus content providers alone cannot provide all that is needed for TiVo guide data.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

unitron said:


> Well then, do TMS and others charge the content providers to be allowed to submit programming data to them?
> 
> Is there any reason content providers can't skip the middleman?


Outside of channel line up information, the cable/sat providers do not submit any information to the guide data providers as they have nothing to submit.
The content owners, Disney, CBS Corp, Time Warner, Comcast (NBC/Universal), Sony, etc., provide the guide data providers with program schedules, which is names of shows and dates and times of broadcast.
The description, names of actors, ratings, and other data about the programs is provided by the guide data providers. Each guide data provider, Rovi, Tribune, FYI, have their own data bases which is made up and maintained by them.
Anybody who has some type of guide, newspapers, online guides, TV stations, TiVo, Microsoft (WMC), cable/sat operators, etc., will buy the data from one of the guide data owners.

Rovi, which bought Gemstar, also owns the DVR and guide software that is embedded in the STBs of most cable boxes. The software is known as I Guide, PassPort Echo, and now Total Guide which is being used in Comcast's X1 platform. 
PassPort Echo DVR and guide software was owned by Aptiv Digital until Gemstar bought them in 2005.
Gemstar owned TV Guide magazine, TV Guide website, TVG Network, TVGOS EPG, TV Guide data base. 
When Rovi bought Gemstar they sod the TV Guide magazine, website, and network to other companies. They kept the TV Guide data base and the TVGOS EPG. They shutdown the TVGOS EPG in 2013 because it was costing them 22 million dollars a year to operate.

Other than Rovi, TiVo has no other competition when it comes to DVR software. There was Digeo, which developed the Moxi DVR and software, which is now owned by Arris. The Moxi software is a modified copy of WMC, as the founder of Digeo was Paul Allen, who was the cofounder of Microsoft.
I do not know who developed the software for Direct TV and Dish but I think Direct TV gets its guide data from Tribune and as far as I know Dish is getting theirs from Rovi.

As you can see it gets quite complicated with who owns what. A cable company has to pay for every service they use, STBs, DVR software, guide data, VOD software. TV Everywhere software, transmission agreements, etc.
Transmission agreements also dictate what channel the programming will be on, what channel package it will be in, if and when and how much the VOD programs will cost, what programs will be available on TV Everywhere, and the most hated copy protection. 
All this is then added into your monthly bill somewhere. Us TiVo owners are paying for these services even though we have no access to them as they are buried in your monthly bill.

Now you can see why TiVo wants a piece of this action as there is a lot of money involved.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

HerronScott said:


> Guide data on TiVo's are a pull from the TiVo client side 24 hours after the last download is processed. Your statement above seems to indicate it's a push from the server side.
> 
> Scott


From my experience with TVGOS and now TiVo, TiVo will determine when each TiVo DVR will have its guide updated. When your unit is scheduled for a guide update it will download the data from TiVo servers during the service connection. As you are aware of after each daily service connection, your TiVo is then given a new time/date for the next connection to the server. 
Even if I try to force a connection I will not get guide data until my unit is scheduled for one.
I suspect that TiVo servers will be updated by Tribune on a daily basis. How often in a day is something I do not know as Tribune does have other clients that also need guide data.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

dlfl said:


> @unitron
> 
> Regardless of who originates the metadata for programming (title, description, etc.), and who pays who for it, the cable/satellite operators have to provide the scheduling data. They make the decision in most (maybe all) cases as to what show airs at what time. Thus content providers alone cannot provide all that is needed for TiVo guide data.


Actually the content owners provide the guide data providers with the program schedules as they own the channels. The cable/sat operators only provide the guide data providers with channel lineups and the location (zip codes) of areas they service. If most cable companies are using Rovi then they will not send any channel lineup changes to the other guide data providers as they only care about their own customers. Rovi generally does not update lineups for external sources anymore as most of their business is internal to cable/sat companies.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Jed1 said:


> From my experience with TVGOS and now TiVo, TiVo will determine when each TiVo DVR will have its guide updated. When your unit is scheduled for a guide update it will download the data from TiVo servers during the service connection. As you are aware of after each daily service connection, your TiVo is then given a new time/date for the next connection to the server.
> Even if I try to force a connection I will not get guide data until my unit is scheduled for one.
> I suspect that TiVo servers will be updated by Tribune on a daily basis. How often in a day is something I do not know as Tribune does have other clients that also need guide data.


I have tested this and each day you can get new TiVo guide after 2Pm EST, sometimes it not till 3 PM EST. I have never not gotten new guide data after 3Pm EST unless the TiVo had already made an automatic call after 2 PM. I have only checked this a few times so the exact times could have changed, but the 3Pm time is holding for now. If I am two days behind, and force a call home at 3 PM or later I get the next days data up to at least 6:30PM, so if I update my TiVos today after 3pm I will have data till Jan 9th till 6:30PM, and a full 24 hours of data for Jan 8.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

lessd said:


> I have tested this and each day you can get new TiVo guide after 2Pm EST, sometimes it not till 3 PM EST. I have never not gotten new guide data after 3Pm EST unless the TiVo had already made an automatic call after 2 PM. I have only checked this a few times so the exact times could have changed, but the 3Pm time is holding for now. If I am two days behind, and force a call home at 3 PM or later I get the next days data up to at least 6:30PM, so if I update my TiVos today after 3pm I will have data till Jan 9th till 6:30PM, and a full 24 hours of data for Jan 8.


I have tried doing this but I can not download any new guide data until I get with in one day of my next scheduled download. You are correct about the 3:00 PM time. If I was to try this tonight I would probably be able to get the new data but I am going to let it update itself and then see how long it takes to update again.
Every body is telling me that this is not normal but this is how my two Premieres have been doing this since I bought them.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

lessd said:


> I have tested this and each day you can get new TiVo guide after 2Pm EST, sometimes it not till 3 PM EST. I have never not gotten new guide data after 3Pm EST unless the TiVo had already made an automatic call after 2 PM. I have only checked this a few times so the exact times could have changed, but the 3Pm time is holding for now. If I am two days behind, and force a call home at 3 PM or later I get the next days data up to at least 6:30PM, so if I update my TiVos today after 3pm I will have data till Jan 9th till 6:30PM, and a full 24 hours of data for Jan 8.


Yes, I've been saying this for years, and nobody cares to retain the information.
Tivo has new Guide data available everyday at 3pm ET. If your Tivo connects before 3pm, you will not have any last minute changes to that nights programming. Odds are that on any given night, any tivo is operating on yesterdays guide data.

If I think of it, I force a connection by 5pm everyday to have the latest guide data. That gives the Tivo a couple of hours to sort and index all the new information in time for prime time recordings.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

scandia101 said:


> Yes, I've been saying this for years, and nobody cares to retain the information.
> Tivo has new Guide data available everyday at 3pm ET. If your Tivo connects before 3pm, you will not have any last minute changes to that nights programming. Odds are that on any given night, any tivo is operating on yesterdays guide data.
> 
> If I think of it, I force a connection by 5pm everyday to have the latest guide data. That gives the Tivo a couple of hours to sort and index all the new information in time for prime time recordings.


If I'd seen you (or anyone) saying that before, I'd have certainly remembered it, so I guess I managed to miss all your other times, so thanks for this one. That's handy info to have.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

scandia101 said:


> If I think of it, I force a connection by 5pm everyday to have the latest guide data. That gives the Tivo a couple of hours to sort and index all the new information in time for prime time recordings.


i'm the same. it's nice to have the next scheduled call time listed, sometimes i'm in the 2-5c zone for a couple of days at a time.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> From what I've read none of the cable company DVRs do, but both the Dish Hopper and DirecTV Genie have most of the same features as a current TiVo. Never used them myself, but out of all the DVRs on the market I think they are the only ones that even come close to TiVo on features.


I love my TiVo's they do mop the floor with just about any cable DVR, but you're right, Genie and Hopper are comparable, and frankly surpassed TiVo in some features that TiVo should have innovated first, but these are strange times for TiVo. I consider Hopper, Genie, and TiVo Roamio the top tier DVR's and while I would rank them Hopper #1, Genie #2, and TiVo Roamio #3, I could see why other people might have a different ranking among the three. Those 3 are the top DVR's today and one can not go wrong getting any of those 3. Other DVR's don't even come close.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

I just think people should do some research to learn about the pros and the cons of any product to avoid great disappointment. TiVo is a great DVR, but maybe not everyone's cup of tea. I even have to wonder if some of these people even know how to USE a TiVo based upon their lacking of much information posts. I do understand those posts in which people demonstrate great knowledge of the product and vent their frustrations and consider those intelligent and legitimate rants. After all, everyone is not going to like a particular product and sometimes even TiVo (along with the Genie or Hopper) can choke. Then it becomes a game of patience and getting the lemon box replaced with a properly working one, but it takes willingness to give any product another fair try.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Jed1 said:


> I have tried doing this but I can not download any new guide data until I get with in one day of my next scheduled download. You are correct about the 3:00 PM time. If I was to try this tonight I would probably be able to get the new data but I am going to let it update itself and then see how long it takes to update again.
> Every body is telling me that this is not normal but this is how my two Premieres have been doing this since I bought them.


Jed1,

I posted in the other thread where we're discussing guide data updates, but have you actually scrolled forward in the guide itself until you see "To be announced" before and after the call?

I don't know what the "Program Information To" line in System Information is for but at least on mine it's not how far the guide data extends to and is not an indicator of what's being downloaded daily.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10353757#post10353757

Scott


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> From what I've read none of the cable company DVRs do, but both the Dish Hopper and DirecTV Genie have most of the same features as a current TiVo. Never used them myself, but out of all the DVRs on the market I think they are the only ones that even come close to TiVo on features.


I've heard similar. I've also heard others say they are awful. TiVo is the only DVR (other than an MCE PC) that you can own, and add more rooms without additional monthly fees.

The X1 is a decent knock-off of TiVo, but it's still not a TiVo. I was in an XFinity store, and the person there seemed to be so excited about it, until I started making comments like "oh yeah, that's just like what TiVo did a couple years ago", "yeah, it's kind of like TiVo with less hard drive space, but more expensive", and "yeah, that's a halfway decent knock-off of TiVo".


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

HerronScott said:


> Jed1,
> 
> I posted in the other thread where we're discussing guide data updates, but have you actually scrolled forward in the guide itself until you see "To be announced" before and after the call?
> 
> ...


As I suspected, both of my TiVos received a guide update late this morning. I now have listings until Thursday January 8th, so I gained three days for both my TiVo guides.

Also as I suspected, the listings for Dr. Who on Wednesday evening and Thursday are now correct. Both my WMC computers and Zap2It had correct listings for Dr. Who. The problem with Dr Who listings was with TiVo and not Tribune.

About Tuesday or Wednesday I will get the next 3 days of listings. This is the cycle I have witnessed since I got these Premieres in the summer of 2013.

I did answer your post in that thread. As I mentioned there the Spring Update change how far forward you can advance in the guide. You now can only go to 1 PM of the day listed in the System Info. You can get beyond that by hitting the A button and select a time after that but if you try to move forward or back you end back at 1 PM of the last day of listings.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

Bigg said:


> I've heard similar. I've also heard others say they are awful. TiVo is the only DVR (other than an MCE PC) that you can own, and add more rooms without additional monthly fees.
> 
> The X1 is a decent knock-off of TiVo, but it's still not a TiVo. I was in an XFinity store, and the person there seemed to be so excited about it, until I started making comments like "oh yeah, that's just like what TiVo did a couple years ago", "yeah, it's kind of like TiVo with less hard drive space, but more expensive", and "yeah, that's a halfway decent knock-off of TiVo".


IMHO, the Hopper is a great DVR, with lots of great features. Dish has had the best non-Tivo DVR for years now. The Genie is fine, and much, much better than Passport or Navigator from TWC which are the only cable DVR OSes I have experienced first hand for any length of time, but it comes up short when it comes to functionality compared to the Hopper, and definitely the Roamio. If I ever go back to pay TV, it will be with Dish for many reasons (despite the constant contract disputes), but the Hopper would be at the top of the list. Heck, they even added Netflix to the Hopper. Other than some smaller cablecos, no other major player has considered doing this.

Of course, I am very happy with my Roamio and antenna/streaming, and I cannot think of any reason I would ever go back to pay TV.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

dlfl said:


> @unitron
> 
> Regardless of who originates the metadata for programming (title, description, etc.), and who pays who for it, the cable/satellite operators have to provide the scheduling data. They make the decision in most (maybe all) cases as to what show airs at what time. Thus content providers alone cannot provide all that is needed for TiVo guide data.


I don't see that as making sense.

Even when a broadcast station is not an O & O, most of the time they're going to run a particular network show when the network wants it run.

The local cable company can't tell the local Fox affiliate to swap the order in which Gotham and Sleepy Hollow appear, they just pick up whatever's being put out and resend it.

As long as they aren't merged with content providers, cable and satellite companies don't care whether you're watching what you pay them to deliver or not, whether it's the broadcast feed of a CBS or the non-broadcast feed of a TNT or USA or The Weather Channel--they get the money either way, so they've got no incentive to worry about what show is on when, and no real control over that either.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

ncted said:


> IMHO, the Hopper is a great DVR, with lots of great features. Dish has had the best non-Tivo DVR for years now.


Interesting. If I had to go to satellite, I'd go to DirecTV, since DISH doesn't compete in the NY DMA and Connecticut due to lack of our sports channels.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

Bigg said:


> Interesting. If I had to go to satellite, I'd go to DirecTV, since DISH doesn't compete in the NY DMA and Connecticut due to lack of our sports channels.


Yep, for people in your situation, that is what I would recommend as well. Although you probably would complain about the Genie after using Tivos.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

ncted said:


> Yep, for people in your situation, that is what I would recommend as well. Although you probably would complain about the Genie after using Tivos.


Yeah, I probably would. I just find it odd that DISH doesn't compete in DMA #1, with around 23 million POPs, in addition to CT, with another couple million.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Bigg said:


> Yeah, I probably would. I just find it odd that DISH doesn't compete in DMA #1, with around 23 million POPs, in addition to CT, with another couple million.


The reason is an accident of history. Originally, Dish only broadcast from 110/119W which has a very low elevation above the horizon (~20 degrees) in the NY DMA. This made Dish a no-go for many. Then, when they started broadcasting local channels, they put the NY channels at 61.5, meaning you needed two dishes. Then, the final problem was that Dish refused to pay YES $1 per subscriber for that channel when they launched. By the time all that dust settled, Dish was so far behind in the NY DMA that there was no point in trying to compete since they had 3 other competitors in much of the market: the incumbent cable operator (Cablevision, TWC or Comcast depending on area), Verizon FiOS (for large portions) and DirecTV. Many places where you don't have FIOS (and even some places you do) you also have RCN as an over-builder. So, it has been far cheaper for Dish to just write NYC off (and not pay YES or SNY) rather than spend the money they would have to to break into it again in a competitive manner. These days most Dish customers in the NYC DMA have it for international programming.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Diana Collins said:


> The reason is an accident of history. Originally, Dish only broadcast from 110/119W which has a very low elevation above the horizon (~20 degrees) in the NY DMA. This made Dish a no-go for many. Then, when they started broadcasting local channels, they put the NY channels at 61.5, meaning you needed two dishes. Then, the final problem was that Dish refused to pay YES $1 per subscriber for that channel when they launched. By the time all that dust settled, Dish was so far behind in the NY DMA that there was no point in trying to compete since they had 3 other competitors in much of the market: the incumbent cable operator (Cablevision, TWC or Comcast depending on area), Verizon FiOS (for large portions) and DirecTV. Many places where you don't have FIOS (and even some places you do) you also have RCN as an over-builder. So, it has been far cheaper for Dish to just write NYC off (and not pay YES or SNY) rather than spend the money they would have to to break into it again in a competitive manner. These days most Dish customers in the NYC DMA have it for international programming.


The satellite locations have little to do with it. DISH had installations on 110/119 before we went EA, and DirecTV used the 101/110/119 setup for years. They are a little bit hard to hit, but not impossible in many areas. DirecTV just recently got all of the locals mirrored on 99c/103c in MPEG-4 so that they could go from the SL-5 to the SL-3 dishes. Boston and NYC have had SL-3s for a lot longer than we have in Hartford-New Haven. I used to see a lot of split arc DISH setups before EA took over, and they didn't seem to have much issue setting them up, as once they found a place they could hit 110/119, 61.5 was easy given how high in the sky it is.

YES was definitely a huge factor for DISH, as I noticed that driving from the Yankees side of the state to the Red Sox side of the state, it used to go from almost all DirecTV to a large amount of DISH, although now that the Huskies are on SNY, they must have bled a TON of subs in Eastern CT to D* or Charter/Comcast/Metrocast. NYC is a much bigger market than CT, but SNY and YES affect both markets.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

I did contact TiVo support by email about my two guides not updating every day and they suggested that it maybe related to high storage issues. I did not delete anything on either TiVo but after I contacted them I started getting listing updates every day. 
This is the first time that got a listing update on a daily basis since I bought these tow units, 
Right now I have listings on both TiVos until Tuesday January 13th. And as of yesterday all my listings are correct and not missing any information.


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