# Block/Bypass 20.6.1 update on new Bolt? to "fix" H.264 Comcast



## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

I have a new just out of the box Bolt ver1. At the beginning of guided setup, where it asks country - usa or canada, if I hit info it shows 20.5.4.silver.rc10 at the bottom of the screen and I want to keep it there, and not update if possible.

Why do I not want to update? Roamios are having an issue recording Comcast H.264 channels in several areas - Atlanta, Chicago, Nashville, San Francisco. There's a growing 4 page thread about the issue here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10933288#post10933288

One theory is that the newer tivo software has something to do with it. And specifically the roamio software since TivoHD and Premieres are able to record the channels.

if you go back in the thread, you can see that Tivo and Comcast have been aware of the issue for weeks, but there hasn't been any status update.

And no board members have posted if there is a way to revert back to an earlier software version, e.g. flash back somehow with an older software image. Perhaps that is impossible and the only way to revert would be for tivo to push out an older version to a specific tsn. if there is another way, please post or PM.

However, an old software version is sitting on this Bolt, but how do I run it that way to test the H.264 channels running the older software? If I continue with guided setup, isn't 20.6.1.rc14 unavoidable?

There is no need for guide data in this scenario. If I tune the bolt directly to the channels in question, they will either buffer properly and record or not. If I could get just a single test pass and tune some channels prior to reboot and the update being applied it would shed light on the issue - either way whether the problem channels fail or work under the old software.

I started guided setup, entered the zip code, made the initial connection, and got to the point where I get to a screen titled "Service Update Available. This update should take less than an hour, and the Tivo box will restart twice." So the tivo knows at this point that there is an update to be had. it may already be on the hard drive waiting to be applied if I continue with another connection. I have rebooted and it just takes me back to the beginning - select country: usa or canada and info shows the same software version as before.

But then the box wants to connect to the internet again, and I can't bypass or side step that. disconnecting the ethernet just stops the process. tried leaving bolt connected to ethernet and router, but disconnected cable modem hoping it would simply fail and let me get to a home screen - no luck.

Are there any workarounds?
Is there some sort of kickstart?
or way to fake the connection?
or configuration to not accept a service update?

I tried connecting to the Bolt via kmttg, pytivo, and through the tivoweb interface - all with no luck.

Other ideas? THANK YOU.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

If the solution is to run old software tivo would have already either rolled back the software or issued new software including applicable sections of old code.

You can't do what you want.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

tivoyahoo said:


> I have a new just out of the box Bolt ver1. At the beginning of guided setup, where it asks country - usa or canada, if I hit info it shows 20.5.4.silver.rc10 at the bottom of the screen and I want to keep it there, and not update if possible.
> 
> Why do I not want to update? Roamios are having an issue recording Comcast H.264 channels in several areas - Atlanta, Chicago, Nashville, San Francisco. There's a growing 4 page thread about the issue here:
> 
> Other ideas? THANK YOU.


You don't want to be the first person to test the problem on a Bolt? Think of the fame.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> You don't want to be the first person to test the problem on a Bolt?


I suspect the Bolt running 20.6.1.rc14 will fail on the h.264 comcast channels at issue just like the Roamio. But it would be nice if a Bolt owner could give it a try in Atlanta, Chicago, Nashville, San Francisco, Sacramento or other comcast areas that have done mpeg 4 migration - there is a link below with a list of areas in 10 states.

And it would be nice to test the channels with software other than 20.6.1.rc14 which is why I haven't completed GS - hoping someone has an idea on how to do that.



lew said:


> If the solution is to run old software tivo would have already either rolled back the software or issued new software including applicable sections of old code.


So are you saying this must be a comcast issue, because if there was a tivo software solution it would be in place by now?

if Tivo is actually on top of this issue and so quick to act then why are they emailing out just this week information information that has been documented to be untrue in the case of the Roamio and not corrected it?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10934382#post10934382

"You may have received a letter from Comcast informing you that they were upgrading the way they deliver HD channels on their XFINITY TV service...

Please note that this will not impact your TiVo BOLT, TiVo Roamio, TiVo® Premiere or TiVo HD DVR. You will continue to get all your HD channels  no action is necessary."

The tivo support article on this transition lists 16 markets affected across 10 U.S. states:
https://support.tivo.com/articles/Features_Use/Comcast-Transitioning-to-MPEG4-in-Select-Markets

"You will continue to get all your HD channels" is well documented to be untrue on this board in the case of Roamio series. In fact, users are reporting on TCF losing more and more channels every day. It would be nice to get a Bolt report from someone in one of those 16 areas listed in AZ, CA, GA, IL, IN, MI, OR, TN, UT, WA.

The Tivo Support article linked above states:

"BOLT Series UESs, Roamio Series DVRs, Premiere Series DVRs: Compatible with MPEG4. No change is required."

Again, it's been well documented on this forum that there is indeed a Roamio series compatibility problem. And the article also fails to mention that minis attached to roamio series will likewise fail on those channels. Not only does the mini fail to show the channel, but mini freezes and requires pulling the power plug to reboot.

In the support article they say: "TiVo is working hard to minimize the impact of this transition on our customers"

But yet Tivo hasn't updated their support article on the topic, much less the software. And leaving users to look to TCF for real answers, for example:

from post 97 of the thread referenced in post 1 of this thread:
"I sure wish I saw this thread before I decided to give up and reset my roamio to default settings which did not fix the problem."

from post 95:
"Yes, yes, yes! This thread is a godsend!

I'm in Franklin, TN on Comca$t and I've been pulling my few remaining hairs out with this exact same issue for a while now."

from post 92:
"Glad to be directed to this thread. Ive been having this problem with Comcast Chicago for about a month."

from post 98:
"I just got Letter of Doom #2. Replace-your-equipment-by date this time is 9/13/16.

The whole thing is ridiculous because I bought the Roamio before the TiVoHD was upgraded. The Roamio was supposed to BE my upgrade."


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

tivoyahoo said:


> So are you saying this must be a comcast issue, because if there was a tivo software solution it would be in place by now?


It appears some tivo units have an issue with some Comcast mp4 channels. What I said is if an older version of tivo software could solve the problem tivo would have already rolled it out.

Tivo is aware of the issue. We don't know how long it will take tivo to find a fix. We don't even know if there will be a fix.

Not sure the purpose of your long followup post. We know tivo updated TivoHD software to work with mp4. We know there are issues. We know tivo is working on it.

Do we know for sure Bolt and TivoHD works with problem channels?


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

lew said:


> Do we know for sure Bolt and TivoHD works with problem channels?


No reports on Bolt at this point, so we don't know, so that's a reason for the post - to get us out of the dark. Although if I complete Guided Setup and let Bolt update to 20.6.1.rc14 then I could report. But I'd like to first try the older software, to see if an older software version doesn't have the same issue as current software.

And also hoping someone can read this and report on the Bolt in the markets affected and named because currently people are just speculating on this forum on the Bolt - another reason for the "long followup". And I'll name more markets here hoping someone there reads this. Bolt owners in Portland & Sacramento too - can you report on comcast mpeg4 / H.264 channels in your market? And are H.264 channels up and running in Detroit, Salt Lake City, and Seattle as those are mpeg4 cities listed in the tivo support article.

There are numerous reports of the TivoHD and Premiere series working on channels where Roamio series fail. So at this point, it's only documented to affect Roamio, but again unknown on Bolt at this point.

But the H.264 channel issue is only documented on TCF and some posts on xfinity forums. Whereas Tivo is emailing out information that is incorrect with regard to the Roamio. So that is another point of the "long followup" - to let affected users know the actual reality and get real answers - instead of "pulling their hair out" or "resetting their roamio" from being in the dark.

And if an affected comcast subscriber wants to upgrade to Bolt to solve this issue, there is nothing reported that backs up tivo's current stated claims:

"You will continue to get all your HD channels"

That's been shown not to be the case with Roamio, so someone upgrading to roamio (perhaps an S3 owner) in the affected comcast markets will be disappointed to find that they don't in fact get "all HD channels". So another point of the long followup is that there are customers out there who aren't getting answers from Tivo and instead getting wrong information. But hopefully those are finding this forum and the relevant threads on the topic and finding some real answers. But again, there are no answers on Bolt at this point. But I'm trying to change that. But I can only potentially get one crack at testing the old software before it updates and I'm looking for help in trying to do that - test the old software.



lew said:


> We don't know how long it will take tivo to find a fix. We don't even know if there will be a fix.


again, goes to the point of not knowing and leaving tivo customers in a lurch. if there may never be a fix, customers should know what their options are. For example, we do know if affected roamio/mini users "downgrade" to a 4 tuner premiere then their minis can pair to the premiere and receive the problem channels, i.e. "all their HD channels". So that is one option. But can a mini pair to a Bolt and receive those same problem channels?? another unknown at this point.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

lew said:


> You can't do what you want.


Well if this ends up being the definitive consensus answer and there is no way to boot up with anything other than 20.6.1.rc14, and I should give up on the idea of booting an earlier version, can someone tell me if I repeat guided setup after the update if I will still be presented with only these 2 options that I see now booting from 20.5.4:

-cable only
-ota only

is there an option to select both after the RC14 update?

I realize there is a single rf input on the Bolt, but if the right frequencies are notched out, and some select ota frequencies introduced, I thought I read that the Bolt could receive both ota and cable simultaneously. or maybe it's the roamio? can someone clarify?

How do you set up the Bolt for both and get get guide data for both sources? I know my S3 displays cable and ota in the channel guide, but it has separate rf inputs for antenna and cable. And can anyone offer any thoughts on the S3 ota tuner compared to the Bolt? I had lousy results with the TivoHD and Premiere ota tuners by comparison to the S3 OLED 648 so I've never set either of those models up for OTA & Cable. Did ota improve with the roamio and bolt? Can anyone point to threads where ota tuners are compared for S3, Roamio, and Bolt? And does the Roamio OTA only model have the same tuner as the Roamio Basic and Roamio Pro, but different than the Bolt's OTA tuner?

I know in my case the OOB is at 75250KHz, downstream channels are in the mid 500 Mhz range, and upstream 4 channels between 18-37MHz. although I'm at a 4x4 modem and want to upgrade to more channels as part of this process as well.

But there are really only 4-6 ota channels I want to introduce - Fox, NBC, ABC, CBS - mainly for sports and the higher ota bitrate. And can figure out if there are cable channels that might conflict.

But has anyone done this post-mpeg4 transition with comcast?


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

Latest from Tivo via Comcast is that 20.6.1 is the problem - see below.
Any workarounds / kickstart or other ideas to get the Bolt (described in post #1) to boot its 20.5.4 software? thanks.

Or can someone point me to a link about the chipsets used in the Roamio vs. the Bolt? same? differences? are they broadcom?

---------
from ComcastTeds...

http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Xfinit...EW-a-specific-channel-BBC/m-p/2774913#M182812

"The Tivo engineering team looked at the issue and discovered that this behavior was introduced in the Q3.9 (20.6.1) TiVo release as a result of some changes that support certain features on MPEG4 channels. A fix for this has been checked into the TiVo Engineering Build system last week.

At this point Tivo does not yet have a targeted release date, but they will be working with their engineering team to identify when a build with this fix will be available and deployed to TiVo devices."


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

tivoyahoo said:


> Latest from Tivo via Comcast is that 20.6.1 is the problem - see below.
> Any workarounds / kickstart or other ideas to get the Bolt (described in post #1) to boot its 20.5.4 software? thanks.


TiVo will set a flag for required updates during Guided Setup if you have old version (which is generally the case for new Bolts). There is no way for guided setup to complete without the update in this case.

In any case, you should just run the update and see what happens. Just because the issue is with 20.6.1 on Roamio's doesn't mean it happens on Bolts (I haven't seen a single report in this forum).


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## rjrsouthwest (Feb 19, 2016)

Here in Tucson I have the new 20.6.1 software on my V1 Bolt since I got it a couple of months back and have no problem recording the H.264 Comcast channels and Comcast started changing to the H.264 channels here in Tucson last December. I personally know the head Comcast engineer for the SW area and he verified to me that the switch over to H.264 has completed in my area.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tivoyahoo said:


> Well if this ends up being the definitive consensus answer and there is no way to boot up with anything other than 20.6.1.rc14, and I should give up on the idea of booting an earlier version, can someone tell me if I repeat guided setup after the update if I will still be presented with only these 2 options that I see now booting from 20.5.4: -cable only -ota only is there an option to select both after the RC14 update? I realize there is a single rf input on the Bolt, but if the right frequencies are notched out, and some select ota frequencies introduced, I thought I read that the Bolt could receive both ota and cable simultaneously. or maybe it's the roamio? can someone clarify? How do you set up the Bolt for both and get get guide data for both sources? I know my S3 displays cable and ota in the channel guide, but it has separate rf inputs for antenna and cable. .............


Yes, you can run both OTA and cable on the Roamio and Bolt lines, with the caveat as there being only one RF coax input as you state.

What you have to do is initially set it up as antenna only, then after that completes, plug in either a TA or cablecard and the TiVo will pop up a screen saying it recognizes the TA/CC and asking if you'd like to also setup your TiVo to receive cable tv. Of course tell it yes and then it will start walking through the guided setup steps to do that. Once it's compete it will integrate both OTA and cable channels into the guide, just like the Premiere 2 tuner and earlier devices do.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

rjrsouthwest said:


> Here in Tucson I have the new 20.6.1 software on my V1 Bolt since I got it a couple of months back and have no problem recording the H.264 Comcast channels and Comcast started changing to the H.264 channels here in Tucson last December. I personally know the head Comcast engineer for the SW area and he verified to me that the switch over to H.264 has completed in my area.


Finally a report from a Bolt user in a comcast mpeg4 market ! :up:
Thank You. Glad to hear it's working well for you rj.

I had almost given up on hearing from a Bolt owner and instead had been researching the hardware differences:

Roamio
CPU: Broadcom BCM7241 3000 Dhrystone MIPS
Transcoder: NXP (Freescale / Zenverge) ZN200 (Roamio Plus and Pro only)
https://www.broadcom.com/products/set-top-box-and-media-processors/iptv/bcm7241

Bolt:
CPU: Broadcom BCM7449 21000 Dhrystone MIPS

and found some posts:
The Bolt has a CPU 3.5 times faster and 3 times memory than the older Roamio model.

although another post says BCM7445 not 7449 for the Bolt:
The TiVo Bolt contains a dual-core Broadcom's BCM7445 rated at 11,000 DMIPS while the Roamio contains a dual-core Broadcom BCM7241 rated at 3,000 DMIPS.

So that gave me some faith that the Bolt might succeed on the problem channels where the Roamio fails since they have different hardware despite running the same software which Tivo apparently now acknowledges as having this issue.

Anyway, would you be able to test some potential problem channels to make sure that the Bolt is properly buffering / recording? and not suffering the same ills that the roamio is? and it's only on *some* h.264 channels where the issue crops up, not all of them. the vast majority of channels are fine. For example Chicago has the most problem channels with 18 but there are over 70 h.264 channels total. And in Atlanta only 6 channels have the issue. But there seems to be a pattern of problem network channels nationwide on comcast and I've given a list below of the suspect ones so that you can put the Bolt through some tests and not discover the issue the hard way - by having a recording fail unexpectedly.

That's one of the symptoms. A recording will appear to be in progress - red circle next to the show in the Now Playing List. But then when the recording is over it disappears from NPL leaving only a trace in the History saying recording "Not Authorized". And if you hit info button on the "Not Authorized" recording in History, roamio shows this detail:
"This show was not recorded because the Tivo box is not authorized for this channel, the program was not purchased, or the program was not available in your area."

However you can flip through channels and know whether it's a problem channel or not because it will exhibit NO buffering, the green play bar doesn't fill up over time. and you can't rewind/FF. if you pause then resume it jumps back to live TV.

Do you know which channels in Tucson are H.264?
Your local networks won't be H.264, ABC, NBC, FOX, CBS
It's fine if you don't though because the tivo diagnostics has that.

But I took a look at a comcast channel guide for Tucson and tried to precede the network name with the Tucson channel number, but those numbers may be wrong. these networks are my best guess on what's been converted based on comcast migrations in other cities. And it's a starting place to check since your tivo will confirm in diagnostics if it's an actual h.264 or not. And you will probably find that most of the networks listed below are h.264, and probably many more. but some on the list may not be in Tucson and are still MPEG2. but I've focused the list on networks that are 1080i native source and that's shown in the list - more on that below.

To check channels, tune each of the 4 tuners with what is to believed to be a h.264 channel. And in our test case, focus on channels that are shown by tivo as 720p - more on that later. Then enter the tivo box diagnostics menu screen and you will see whether each of the 4 tuned channels is h.264 or mpeg 2. To get into the Diagnostics screen: through:

-->Settings & Messages
-->Account & System Info
-->Tivo Box Diagnostics

And then scroll/channel down to the Video PID line for each tuner/channel and it will show mpeg2 or h.264. It will look like this:
VideoPID 0x1074 (H.264) <--- or it will say MPEG2 instead

That's for each of the 4 tuners and they would be numbered starting with tuner 0, so 0,1,2,3 for Bolt. Each tuner will show the channel it's tuned to and you have to scroll (channel down) through the lines of information to get to each tuner's VideoPID line.

I did find this thread about some mpeg4 issues in Tucson, but on older model tivo:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=538287

But this issue seems correlated to h.264 networks that are 1080i native/source and which comcast is transcoding to 720p. you may want to pass that on to your engineering friend along with the link from post #1 that is filled with posts and details. Also, when you are looking for channels, pay attention to the channel banner - over to the right it will say 720p or 1080i. In your first pass, skip right on by and channel that shows as 1080i on the channel banner. it's very unlikely to be a problem channel - doesn't fit the profile. For example in my list, you'll see the first entry as AXSTV 1080i. That's a 1080i network native. But in tucson there is a good chance that comcast is transcoding it to 720p. And if they are, then 720p will show in your channel banner - hit info to bring up the full channer banner / full description. but the full version will stay up as you flip through channels and you can see 720p or 1080i on the right.

in fact what you can do is start with tuner 1 and flip til you see a 720p. then flip to tuner 2 and get another 720p channel tuned and buffering started. then to tuner 3 and find another 720p. then another 720p in tuner 4. and then back to Tuner 1 - if the green bar isn't filled in by then and you can't rewind then bingo - you've located a problem channel. if it's buffering then put another 720p in the buffer and go back to tuner 2 and see if it buffered. and keep rinsing and repeating. or you can go one channel at a time and just focus on the ones below. you'll notice the buffer is behaving right if you try to rew/pause after about 10-15 seconds.

I look forward to what you see. Actually what you don't see - hopefully you don't see any signs of the buffer issue on any of the channels. It could very well be that problem channels exist but that only Roamio is affected and not Bolt. Tivo HD and Premiere work fine on problem channels found thus far.

Thanks,
TivoYahoo

------------------------

AXSTV 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AXS_TV
BBCA 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_America
561 COOKHD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooking_Channel
DFCHD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_Family
DXDHD **720p** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_XD
DIYHD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIY_Network
541 GSNHD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Show_Network
559 INDIEFLIX Unknown Native https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indieflix
553 MGMHD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM_HD
227 MTVLIVE 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTV_Live_(TV_network)
NFLNRZD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_RedZone
OVATNHD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovation_(U.S._TV_channel)
584 OXYG 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_(TV_channel)
560 RETROPLEX 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RetroPlex
SPMNHD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsman_Channel
250 UHD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_HD
588 UPHD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_(TV_network)
589 VICEHD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viceland
597 WGNA 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WGN_America
670 NBC Universo


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

tivoyahoo said:


> I had almost given up on hearing from a Bolt owner and instead had been researching the hardware differences:
> 
> Roamio
> CPU: Broadcom BCM7241 3000 Dhrystone MIPS
> ...


I have a 4-tuner Roamio (used for OTA only), not a Bolt, but that hardware information is interesting. Thanks.



tivoyahoo said:


> That's one of the symptoms. A recording will appear to be in progress - red circle next to the show in the Now Playing List. But then when the recording is over it disappears from NPL leaving only a trace in the History saying recording "Not Authorized". And if you hit info button on the "Not Authorized" recording in History, roamio shows this detail:
> "This show was not recorded because the Tivo box is not authorized for this channel, the program was not purchased, or the program was not available in your area."
> 
> However you can flip through channels and know whether it's a problem channel or not because it will exhibit NO buffering, the green play bar doesn't fill up over time. and you can't rewind/FF. if you pause then resume it jumps back to live TV.


FWIW, I have sometimes seen the behavior you describe on OTA channels (MPEG2). I think it's caused by some timing data (Program Clock Reference?) being missing or stuck (not incrementing) in the transport stream. TiVo seems to rely on proper timing information for some functions like trick play. I've seen it mostly from a local translator (re-transmitter) for one of our PBS stations when a piece of equipment which replaces the PSIP data goes wonky.

When the program ends, the TiVo sees that the time apparently didn't advance, concludes that nothing was recorded, and deletes the recording even though everything but the timing information is actually there. History shows a No Signal error.

Maybe some of your MPEG4 stations have transport streams with malformed timing data, or maybe MPEG4 sometimes uses a new variation that the TiVo doesn't handle correctly.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

It's not the 'No Signal' error, this one is 'Not Authorized' in history. Different issue, same result.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

It looks like Comcast is encoding some HD stations has 720p, with a low bitrate. Has anyone carefully viewed those stations (cable STB, Bolt)? Posters are waiting for a fix from tivo. I wonder if the picture quality of the down rez channels will be acceptable.

Some people have a choice in providers. Do you switch know since the system isn't tivo compatible? Do you switch after tivo fixes the situation since the picture quality looks closer to SD then it does to HD?


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

lew said:


> It looks like Comcast is encoding some HD stations has 720p, with a low bitrate. Has anyone carefully viewed those stations (cable STB, Bolt)? Posters are waiting for a fix from tivo. I wonder if the picture quality of the down rez channels will be acceptable. Some people have a choice in providers. Do you switch know since the system isn't tivo compatible? Do you switch after tivo fixes the situation since the picture quality looks closer to SD then it does to HD?


My PS Vue looks better than 99% of the channels I get from Oceanic TWC, so that's a very real scenario and possibility for those effected. The kicker is that it's widely reported that Vue's max resolution is 720p. I did notice after this latest update from Sony that it looks much more detailed, so I don't know if they upped the rez or maybe refined their streaming and/or compression quality.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Yes, you can run both OTA and cable on the Roamio and Bolt lines, with the caveat as there being only one RF coax input as you state.
> 
> What you have to do is initially set it up as antenna only, then after that completes, plug in either a TA or cablecard and the TiVo will pop up a screen saying it recognizes the TA/CC and asking if you'd like to also setup your TiVo to receive cable tv. Of course tell it yes and then it will start walking through the guided setup steps to do that. Once it's compete it will integrate both OTA and cable channels into the guide, just like the Premiere 2 tuner and earlier devices do.


Dan, great post. thanks!
great to hear there is a workaround for the ota only | cable only options presented in guided setup. :up:

btw, I found a similar workaround for the S3 OLED 648 to enable dual tuners for ota & cable without having any cable cards inserted and posted that here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10934591#post10934591

But even with cable cards, S3 can't receive the 7 mpeg4/h.264 channels in use now in the SF Bay Area. And there are a whole lot more h.264 slated for August 2, so that's a big reason why I'm trying to migrate right along. But the Roamios (basic and pro) which are supposed to be fully mpeg4 compatible are instead choking on 6 of those 7 h.264 channels in use now. in other words, roamio will only buffer/record on one of those 7 channels. And the one that works is the only one of the 7 networks that isn't being transcoded 1080i=>720p by comcast.

So initially I was thinking of setting up the Bolt to use a coax a/b switch, preferrably with remote control and high isolation, e.g.
http://www.frys.com/product/2609752

Any recommendations on good manufacturers / models for a/b coax switch? or ones to avoid?

but would that throw off the tivo in any way? i.e. suddenly flipping the switch between atsc and qam streams on the input? I suppose if Bolt can handle both simultaneously (with no frequency overlap/conflict of course) it shouldn't matter if you feed just one (atsc) or the other(qam), right? it won't somehow shock the system if atsc all go away and qam fills the input. but what if a certain frequency is atsc and I flip the switch and the Bolt suddenly gets qam instead on that very same frequency?? i.e. qam suddenly occupying the spot where atsc was before the switch flip?

so another concern is that the cable card might act up and generate nag screens when the switch is on ota, e.g. "error acquiring channel" or "signal lost". is it a nag screen I can simply exit out of ? I get that warning on the S3 - it nags that I need to rerun guided setup because it thinks I should have 2 cable cards inserted, which I don't, but I set it up that way so I could a) get dual on both ota & cable b) insert cards later without rerunning GS and c) be able to run a qam channel scan (more on that below)

So before I order a more expensive coax a/b switch with remote control and high isolation, I suppose I should test with just a cheapo manual switch a/b. but can someone tell me if there is a pitfall in this setup? or better yet, can someone confirm it should work, and perhaps they are doing the very same thing? and even better, can tell me a coax a/b switch that can be controlled by the tivo remote??

So my intial scenario is basically this: Let's say I want to watch (and potentially record) the Olympics Opening Ceremony (Aug 5) via OTA stream on NBC. I can just flip the A/B switch to A for Antenna and watch NBC from antenna source, right. Granted any scheduled recordings on cable on the bolt would fail. but I've got a roamio on the network to handle those recordings though, as long as they aren't failing h.264 channels that is, and there are 6 channels that fail currently for me, but that number could go way up on Aug 2.

And then the other part of this is that there may be kinks along the way with the coming comcast mpeg4 migration. I want to be able to rely on ota for the broadcast networks while that's going on for redundancy / backup in case comcast fouls some things up (even if it's short term) during the migration. I realize the broadcast networks should remain mpeg2, but that doesn't mean comcast won't shift the frequency and move the channel/frequency map around and have some issues in the process. and might squash and compress channels in the process.

And then once the dust settles on the mpeg4 migration and things settle into place relatively speaking as far as frequency use, at that point I could map it out and notch and bandpass the right frequencies to merge everything together. But at this point, who knows what will move where. I'm hoping someone has done this in a comcast mpeg4 market and could report as to where things landed as far as cable modem upstream and downstream channels and what things look like as far as the frequency map.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tivoyahoo said:


> Dan, great post. thanks! great to hear there is a workaround for the ota only | cable only options presented in guided setup. :up: btw, I found a similar workaround for the S3 OLED 648 to enable dual tuners for ota & cable without having any cable cards inserted and posted that here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10934591#post10934591 But even with cable cards, S3 can't receive the 7 mpeg4/h.264 channels in use now in the SF Bay Area. And there are a whole lot more h.264 slated for August 2, so that's a big reason why I'm trying to migrate right along. But the Roamios (basic and pro) which are supposed to be fully mpeg4 compatible are instead choking on 6 of those 7 h.264 channels in use now. in other words, roamio will only buffer/record on one of those 7 channels. And the one that works is the only one of the 7 networks that isn't being transcoded 1080i=>720p by comcast. So initially I was thinking of setting up the Bolt to use a coax a/b switch, preferrably with remote control and high isolation, e.g. http://www.frys.com/product/2609752 Any recommendations on good manufacturers / models for a/b coax switch? or ones to avoid? but would that throw off the tivo in any way? i.e. suddenly flipping the switch between atsc and qam streams on the input? I suppose if Bolt can handle both simultaneously (with no frequency overlap/conflict of course) it shouldn't matter if you feed just one (atsc) or the other(qam), right? it won't somehow shock the system if atsc all go away and qam fills the input. but what if a certain frequency is atsc and I flip the switch and the Bolt suddenly gets qam instead on that very same frequency?? i.e. qam suddenly occupying the spot where atsc was before the switch flip? so another concern is that the cable card might act up and generate nag screens when the switch is on ota, e.g. "error acquiring channel" or "signal lost". is it a nag screen I can simply exit out of ? I get that warning on the S3 - it nags that I need to rerun guided setup because it thinks I should have 2 cable cards inserted, which I don't, but I set it up that way so I could a) get dual on both ota & cable b) insert cards later without rerunning GS and c) be able to run a qam channel scan (more on that below) So before I order a more expensive coax a/b switch with remote control and high isolation, I suppose I should test with just a cheapo manual switch a/b. but can someone tell me if there is a pitfall in this setup? or better yet, can someone confirm it should work, and perhaps they are doing the very same thing? and even better, can tell me a coax a/b switch that can be controlled by the tivo remote?? So my intial scenario is basically this: Let's say I want to watch (and potentially record) the Olympics Opening Ceremony (Aug 5) via OTA stream on NBC. I can just flip the A/B switch to A for Antenna and watch NBC from antenna source, right. Granted any scheduled recordings on cable on the bolt would fail. but I've got a roamio on the network to handle those recordings though, as long as they aren't failing h.264 channels that is, and there are 6 channels that fail currently for me, but that number could go way up on Aug 2. And then the other part of this is that there may be kinks along the way with the coming comcast mpeg4 migration. I want to be able to rely on ota for the broadcast networks while that's going on for redundancy / backup in case comcast fouls some things up (even if it's short term) during the migration. I realize the broadcast networks should remain mpeg2, but that doesn't mean comcast won't shift the frequency and move the channel/frequency map around and have some issues in the process. and might squash and compress channels in the process. And then once the dust settles on the mpeg4 migration and things settle into place relatively speaking as far as frequency use, at that point I could map it out and notch and bandpass the right frequencies to merge everything together. But at this point, who knows what will move where. I'm hoping someone has done this in a comcast mpeg4 market and could report as to where things landed as far as cable modem upstream and downstream channels and what things look like as far as the frequency map.


Other than my name is Dave and not Dan, have at it man! 

I don't believe the coax switch will hurt your TiVo, but I'm not sure I would do that myself. We used to use these switches extensively for very early cable systems and those old game switches and they didn't seem to hurt the ntsc tuners in those old TVs. The modulation on the signals were analog and now they're digital but that shouldn't matter, it's still an RF transmission carrier.

You may be better with a nicer electronic switch because some of those have a dummy load that it momentarily connects through as the switch engages to the other source and it's much more fluid and graceful in its switching function rather than a clunky "bang box" like a manual A/B switch.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Other than my name is Dave and not Dan, have at it man!


 whoops. I'm sorry. just call me a mixed up yahoo like my user name 



HarperVision said:


> You may be better with a nicer electronic switch because some of those have a dummy load that it momentarily connects through as the switch engages to the other source and it's much more fluid and graceful in its switching function rather than a clunky "bang box" like a manual A/B switch.


I like the idea of graceful over a bang box :up:
any makes/models in particular you recommend?
did you look at the one in the frys link?
and the a/b setup is intended to be temporary til the mpeg 4 migration frequency settle in. and then it can be properly merged.

what's your latest setup? do you use vue and ota when you want quality instead of the compressed cable signal? do you have vue modulated/distributed to multiple tv's? are you running IR over coax? or an rf remote to control things from another room?


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tivoyahoo said:


> whoops. I'm sorry. just call me a mixed up yahoo like my user name  I like the idea of graceful over a bang box :up: any makes/models in particular you recommend? did you look at the one in the frys link? and the a/b setup is intended to be temporary til the mpeg 4 migration frequency settle in. and then it can be properly merged.
> 
> what's your latest setup? do you use vue and ota when you want quality instead of the compressed cable signal? do you have vue modulated/distributed to multiple tv's? are you running IR over coax? or an rf remote to control things from another room?


I don't have any recommendations for coax switches. I haven't used one in years really.

I pulled my modulator off the circuit so I can sell it and it's virtually new. I still have DTV, but no need to modulate it over my TiVo network anymore since I use Vue. I'm just waiting for my contract to expire to cancel. When I did have it setup, I used the RF remote in the other rooms, not IR.

I now use a limited basic digital TV package from time warner here because when I called to cancel the TV part and just go Internet only, they gave me a banging deal for a double play that was less than Internet alone. It actually seems to include a lot more channels than they list, but they seem to come and go while they're doing upgrades to our system here. I think they do a lot of testing overnight and sometimes forget to reengage the authorization switch! 

I also have PS Vue using FireTV boxes at all my TVs and just the other day got a PS4, which I'm still tweaking for the best bandwidth through my VPN to Philly. That's the main reason I went to Vue, so I could sign up for the Philly package and get all my sports. 

I was just pleasantly surprised at how good it looks when the max speed I can get through the VPN is about 12Mbps, but the ps4 only reports the picture stream at 3.5Mbps and Internet download speed between 5.5-6 Mbps.

If there's any OpenVPN pros out there that can help, bring it on!


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> I also have PS Vue using FireTV boxes at all my TVs and just the other day got a PS4, which I'm still tweaking for the best bandwidth through my VPN to Philly. That's the main reason I went to Vue, so I could sign up for the Philly package and get all my sports.
> 
> I was just pleasantly surprised at how good it looks when the max speed I can get through the VPN is about 12Mbps, but the ps4 only reports the picture stream at 3.5Mbps and Internet download speed between 5.5-6 Mbps.


but aren't you used to seeing some 1080p content from DirecTV? or is that only CONUS? Is there anything on DirecTV that you'll miss? I'm not up to speed on their latest, but aren't the regional sports net nationwide? well at least for 48 states. or are those blacked out for games anyway? and/or on spot beam satellites to the region.

and you're not pulling any OTA on the Bolt? just using TWC for the locals. and your vue subscription is virtually in Philly due to the vpn connection? and you get all the Philly programming, like comcast sports net / regional sports net for flyers/phils/sixers? and the philly fox/cbs for eagles games? and on vue's end they see a Philly IP address associated with your vue devices - ps4 & firetv's - and deliver the same programming as if physically in Philly, right?


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Yes, you can run both OTA and cable on the Roamio and Bolt lines, with the caveat as there being only one RF coax input as you state.
> 
> What you have to do is initially set it up as antenna only, then after that completes, plug in either a TA or cablecard and the TiVo will pop up a screen saying it recognizes the TA/CC and asking if you'd like to also setup your TiVo to receive cable tv. Of course tell it yes and then it will start walking through the guided setup steps to do that. Once it's compete it will integrate both OTA and cable channels into the guide, just like the Premiere 2 tuner and earlier devices do.


above failed under 20.5.4.
completed GS as antenna only, got the ota channel list. inserted card, and and was prompted to rerun GS from very beginning where you select United States or Canada, and later had to make selection - antenna only, cable only. selected cable. at completion, the ota channel list was wiped and replaced by digital cable channel list. In other words, it didn't merge them both together. And under Channel & App Settings only cable signal strength is shown as a menu option.

So maybe the dual configuration only works once the 20.6.1 update is applied. Will try again. But would that mean running guided setup again as antenna only without card. and then inserting the card again and rerunning GS? or is there a step / trick I'm missing? maybe it's just a function of the software version.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tivoyahoo said:


> above failed under 20.5.4. completed GS as antenna only, got the ota channel list. inserted card, and and was prompted to rerun GS from very beginning where you select United States or Canada, and later had to make selection - antenna only, cable only. selected cable. at completion, the ota channel list was wiped and replaced by digital cable channel list. In other words, it didn't merge them both together. And under Channel & App Settings only cable signal strength is shown as a menu option. So maybe the dual configuration only works once the 20.6.1 update is applied. Will try again. But would that mean running guided setup again as antenna only without card. and then inserting the card again and rerunning GS? or is there a step / trick I'm missing? maybe it's just a function of the software version.


Hmmmm that's interesting. I have mine setup dual cable and antenna as we speak and I have done this many times, well before 20.5.4 was ever released iirc. I don't remember doing anything special or anything more than what I described and you seemed to have done. I remember seeing a third option, "Antenna & Cable" in the setup.

TiVo must've shot out a "fix" for this after their TCF spies read my posts about being able to do this. I'm wondering if I rerun guided setup that I'll lose this ability?

Did you totally and completely finish antenna setup to where it stopped needing any more call ins and it said you're done and ready to start watching tv?


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

the bolt is a gen1 with 20.5.4. I presume that's the very first software release for Bolt. but you probably ran a dual configuration on roamio that had an earlier than 20.5.4 version. or are you saying bolt too - you ran GS under an earlier version than 20.5.4? either way, I'm sure your post spies are out there  and reading this thread. So I don't know how they would have after the fact blocked the dual configuration if you got it working on Bolt before, but there are some call ins during the GS so blocks could have been introduced there?? but it's never updated from 20.5.4. but of course has pulled channel info as part of setup based on zip code.

but am hoping the dual configuration is enabled in later software release version once I let it update which I've blocked to this point due to comcast stating 20.6.1 as an issue for certain mpeg4 channels - discussed in beginning of this thread.

I'm definitely not all-in on Bolt and ready to pay the full price all-in $$ on it. and almost picked up a silicon dust on sale given that the SD is working on the roamio problem mpeg4 channels - more on that at this link:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10957873#post10957873

$99 on sale and no subscription for the Silicon Dust. Now whether tivo will make some type of Bolt accomodation or not given the roamio failing channels is an unanswered question. And with a new bolt model presumably in the pipeline, that's another reason this Bolt might not be a keeper (am within 30 day return window for refund). But it is looking like 20.6.1 will work on the roamio failing channels based on reports over the weekend, so that's a big development in this scenario and it does appear I don't need to block taking the update and continue to try to run the earlier software. Anyone interested in reading the latest on Bolt 20.6.1 with the roamio known problem channels, that is at this post:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10958501#post10958501



HarperVision said:


> Did you totally and completely finish antenna setup to where it stopped needing any more call ins and it said you're done and ready to start watching tv?


Yes, I was watching live tv ota, buffering was working fine on all tuners, flipping around channels, and checking the channel list that was downloaded from tivo and all was looking fine. So that's why I moved on to integrating the cable card at that point. However I did not activate service at that point and still haven't. So it did still want to do another call in. I think there was more program information to pull into the guide. doesn't it just pull a few hours or days worth initially of guide info, and then the full 9 days or 2 weeks on a subsequent call? well I only did the connections that were needed to get through GS and it did say set up complete. but in system info I could see more calls scheduled about a half hour out. and I didn't want to take the update since 20.6.1 is being pointed to by comcast as the culprit. so I left the ethernet disconnected and it kept rescheduling connections for another 12 hours out or so after each fail. has been going on for about 48 hours now with no pending restarts/reboots along the way.

The roamio issue is what's forcing the issue here - not being able to record channels isn't acceptable. So that's where this Bolt comes into the picture. and it buffering those problem channels with 20.5.4 just fine, and hopefully will work with 20.6.1, again based on the very recent report just hours old - see link above. So I'm ready to update but want the dual ota & cable, and I'm hoping it will work without activation because that issue might take some time to settle with tivo, but if I can just watch live ota & cable for the time being with buffering that's fine. chief concern is seeing the roamio problem channels buffer because the roamio won't buffer them. and there's 6 h.264 channels I can test.

So even though the Bolt has a year of service included the time to have the roamio conversation with tivo might be prior to activation and starting the 1 year of included service on the Bolt. they may be discounting all in anyway and somehow crediting the unused 1 year even without the roamio issue. and maybe there is a thread on that??

But back to guided setup, next planned move is to force connections and let Bolt take the 20.6.1RC14 update and check if the mpeg4 problem channels are properly buffering. Then I could repeat guided setup ota, and again insert card like before to try to get the dual ota & cable. And again, can try this prior to tivo activation. btw, the new web interface to an Xfinity account to perform cable card activation and pairing does work. I posted on that here when activating the bolt cable card:

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10957494#post10957494

timingwise, after the update. I'll connect coax with antenna feed, complete GS, then disconnect antenna feed and screw in cable feed and then insert card. or should I disonnect antenna, and then put card in with no rf input, and then immediately attach cable feed? don't know if that matters. perhaps the sequence and timing plays a role. or maybe I should just leave the rf input disconnected throughout? and just set up ota, finish than and simply insert the card? but I think the box will want to hang on acquiring. channel inforrmation til it pulls the channel map from headend. has been the case on prior models like the S3 that I've tried to dual configure.

Look forward to your thoughts on best approach.

and welcome all posters thoughts on how to deal with the Bolt activation in light of the year included, plus the ongoing roamio issue - laid out in deteail in beginning of thread. thanks.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Yes, it could've been an earlier version and on the Roamio, I don't recall. All I remember is that its worked the way I described every time I've tried it on both the Roamios and now the Bolt. I haven't attempted it since maybe late last year so I doubt it has to be 20.6.1. Mine is a gen 1 as well. 

If I were you I'd activate it and let it update and do ALL of the call ins and then see what happens.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> I remember seeing a third option, "Antenna & Cable" in the setup.
> 
> TiVo must've shot out a "fix" for this after their TCF spies read my posts about being able to do this. I'm wondering if I rerun guided setup that I'll lose this ability?


reconnected ethernet, forced a connection, and it pulled a sizeable download on first connection and now the 20.5.4 Bolt is pending restart with the next scheduled connection not for 24 hours out. So I have to presume overnight it'll go to 20.6.1RC14 unless I reboot it sooner. So it looks like activation status will have nothing to do with applying the update, since it's still inactive with tivo. although that doesn't keep me from navigating the menus and using all 4 tuners and buffers. and the bolt's lightning quickness and responsiveness is starting to grow on me I will admit.

But am thinking I should hold off on the reboot and try rerunning GS under 20.5.4 because what if Tivo "shot out a "fix" for this after their TCF spies" read your posts. It's more likely they disabled the dual ota & cable configuration rather than enabled it in a later release. So under that theory it's more likely available as a "backdoor" in 20.5.4 than 20.6.1. and I'm calling it that because the door isn't open in the beginning of guided setup. It's only once you do a certain sequence that the backdoor opens. And if that door is closed in 20.6.1, better open it now.

But why didn't it work the first time for 20.5.4 on my attempt? maybe because I was doing the card activation and pairing all in the same sequence? when I first inserted the card with the ota configuration, the card wasn't even active. now it's active and paired. so if i start over, pull the card, setup for antenna only, and then insert the preactivated and pulled card then perhaps that will streamline it and tivo will say, "oh, you just inserted a card that's paired to this tivo" and maybe at that point it will generate the "antenna & cable" dialog box option?

but the 20.5.4 install is on the clock now and will go away due to pending restart. can't block it now. so I either try it now and hope dual works under GS in 20.6.1 or I lose my 20.5.4 shot at it. and sounds like you haven't done GS since 20.6.1 has been out.

and yes, the activation status is another variable potentially in play to getting the backdoor to open. any other tweaks I should try to get the backdoor open, please let me know. thanks. but I'll give it another go starting from ota setup cardless, and then inserting the card and see what happens.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

The status of my card didn't matter because I remember using a card I bought from eBay that wasn't even provisioned to my headend. I've also kicked in the "antenna and cable" menu question by just plugging a tuning adapter into it via USB.

I think you should activate the Bolt with TiVo and maybe that will enable the feature. That's what I meant when I said to activate in my previous post, not activate the Cablecard.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> The status of my card didn't matter because I remember using a card I bought from eBay that wasn't even provisioned to my headend. I've also kicked in the "antenna and cable" menu question by just plugging a tuning adapter into it via USB.


got it. did you have it even connected a live cable feed on the rf input? or I guess it wouldn't have mattered if an ebay card alone triggered antenna & cable. or the tuning adapter.



HarperVision said:


> I think you should activate the Bolt with TiVo and maybe that will enable the feature. That's what I meant when I said to activate in my previous post, not activate the Cablecard.


yes, I was following.

so if I wanted to rerun GS with 20.5.4. I should have apparently done it prior to connecting the ethernet again and making a connection and receiving the download and let it get to pending restart state. Because removing the card prompted the guided setup dialog, but when I tried to rerun GS, it must have been flagged for restart first, because it went right to reboot. and it's been flashing black screen and tivo logo alternating ever since with occasional led's on the bolt lighting up. No messages about update being applied, please wait. not sure what to expect with a 20.5.4 =>20.6.1 update but the hdmi seems to be signaling on and sensed by the tv, and then black, and then blue screen. maybe it's in a loop since it's expecting the card to be in place based on the last completed GS but I've since attached antenna feed anticipating rerunning GS. maybe it's wigging out getting 8vsb when it's expecting qam? or maybe looped for some other reason. and potentially the inactive status is part of it. maybe I bricked it. been going probably 45 minutes. maybe I just need some patience.

So presuming it makes out alive and with 20.6.1RC14 I'll give it another GS run and we'll see what happens. or maybe I'll soon be reading posts on looped/ bricked update :down:


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tivoyahoo said:


> got it. did you have it even connected a live cable feed on the rf input? or I guess it wouldn't have mattered if an ebay card alone triggered antenna & cable. or the tuning adapter.
> 
> yes, I was following. so if I wanted to rerun GS with 20.5.4. I should have apparently done it prior to connecting the ethernet again and making a connection and receiving the download and let it get to pending restart state. Because removing the card prompted the guided setup dialog, but when I tried to rerun GS, it must have been flagged for restart first, because it went right to reboot. and it's been flashing black screen and tivo logo alternating ever since with occasional led's on the bolt lighting up. No messages about update being applied, please wait. not sure what to expect with a 20.5.4 =>20.6.1 update but the hdmi seems to be signaling on and sensed by the tv, and then black, and then blue screen. maybe it's in a loop since it's expecting the card to be in place based on the last completed GS but I've since attached antenna feed anticipating rerunning GS. maybe it's wigging out getting 8vsb when it's expecting qam? or maybe looped for some other reason. and potentially the inactive status is part of it. maybe I bricked it. been going probably 45 minutes. maybe I just need some patience. So presuming it makes out alive and with 20.6.1RC14 I'll give it another GS run and we'll see what happens. or maybe I'll soon be reading posts on looped/ bricked update :down:


Yeah it doesn't matter what's hooked up to the RF coax input as far as I know. The thing that triggers it is just installing a Cablecard or TA, which signals the TiVo that you want to do cable tv of its already setup for antenna.

As far as I know it doesn't matter what FW version you're on because I did my Bolt as soon as I got it to replace my Roamio so I could maintain the Modulator setup that I had with it. I don't remember what FW was on it, but it was earlier than 20.6.1 and it's still working now with that FW on my Bolt.

The tuners are capable of running both qam and atsc simultaneously so I doubt it's "wigging out" if there's atsc on the cable.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> The tuners are capable of running both qam and atsc simultaneously so I doubt it's "wigging out" if there's atsc on the cable.


seemed stuck in the loop, so I disconnected the antenna feed and not long after I got something different - an "almost there" screen. followed by "service update screen". could have been pure coincidence on the timing and not looped - could have all been normal for the update and may have had nothing to do with the rf input. update took seemingly an hour. so it's updated to 20.6.1RC14 and the roamio problem channels buffer fine - details in this post:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10958855#post10958855

however same result with 20.6.1 as 20.5.4 as far as dual configuration. ran GS as OTA, got the channel list, all working fine. inserted card and it prompted to rerun the GS, but same thing - antenna only or cable only. no both option. and selecting cable and completing GS wipes out the ota channel list. so it basically goes back to square one (select country) and forces you to choose one or the other - cable or ota. doesn't give the option for both / or to add cable to existing ota.

so I'm stumped. maybe I'll give it a go on a roamio basic and see if the result differs. or I wonder if there are any other posts on TCF that might detail the steps on dual configurations and there is a specific way to get the both ota & cable dialog option.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> I think you should activate the Bolt with TiVo and maybe that will enable the feature.


forgot to add, still not activated with tivo. so perhaps that is the key to unlock the dual configuration. but need to negotiate the service plan with tivo - potential transfer of service from another box due to the roamio issue. don't know how soon that might be settled, but if the dual ota & cable configuration works on the subscribed roamio basic, then that's a good sign it would work on an active Bolt, and that would be a nice feature. but the fact that the bad roamio channels work is a big plus right there.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Hmmmm, I'm stumped then, sorry.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Hmmmm, I'm stumped then, sorry.


will keep trying. with the subscribed roamio basic. not at a dead end. and then working out service plan / transfer on the bolt to get it active.

Have you seen other TCF threads on this subject? have others posted besides yourself? maybe there are some clues to be found.

And if you go into your sys info, about halfway down or so, do you get:

Program Source (1) Digital Cable
Source Input (1) Coax Cable In
Program Source (2) Antenna
Source Input (2) Coax Antenna In

Above is what I get on my dual configured S3 with 2 source inputs. How does it show up on your Bolt/Roamio? On the Bolt I get:

Program Source: Digital Cable
Source Input: Coax Cable In

And under channel list is it one big list with antenna and cable channels numbered / merged together? or are there separate lists for each? I believe you've said in the guide it's all merged together. but under Channel & App Settings --> Channel List, is it merged together too?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

tivoyahoo said:


> Program Source (1) Digital Cable
> Source Input (1) Coax Cable In
> Program Source (2) Antenna
> Source Input (2) Coax Antenna In
> ...


Same as a basic Premiere. One channel list, annotated for the source. I have two channel 2 (one analog, one from the cable card that's not installed. A scan does add the clear QAM channels (my option).


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tivoyahoo said:


> will keep trying. with the subscribed roamio basic. not at a dead end. and then working out service plan / transfer on the bolt to get it active. Have you seen other TCF threads on this subject? have others posted besides yourself? maybe there are some clues to be found. And if you go into your sys info, about halfway down or so, do you get: Program Source (1) Digital Cable Source Input (1) Coax Cable In Program Source (2) Antenna Source Input (2) Coax Antenna In Above is what I get on my dual configured S3 with 2 source inputs. How does it show up on your Bolt/Roamio? On the Bolt I get: Program Source: Digital Cable Source Input: Coax Cable In And under channel list is it one big list with antenna and cable channels numbered / merged together? or are there separate lists for each? I believe you've said in the guide it's all merged together. but under Channel & App Settings --> Channel List, is it merged together too?


Yes this subject has come up many times already. Others have asked me about it and it's worked for them iirc. I think I'm the one that accidentally discovered this, but not sure. Do a search on here for my user ID and "OTA with cable one rf" or something similar.

Here's some pictures of the menu showing dual inputs:


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Yes this subject has come up many times already. Others have asked me about it and it's worked for them iirc. I think I'm the one that accidentally discovered this, but not sure. Do a search on here for my user ID and "OTA with cable one rf" or something similar.
> 
> Here's some pictures of the menu showing dual inputs:


got it. thanks. nice photos with channel 1-1. forget dual configuration, who says you can't do ota/cable/directv all fed into one bolt? :up:


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tivoyahoo said:


> got it. thanks. nice photos with channel 1-1. forget dual configuration, who says you can't do ota/cable/directv all fed into one bolt? :up:


FWIW, businesses do it all the time.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Hmmmm, I'm stumped then, sorry.


We'll get dual configuration figured out on bolt/roamio, you've been big help. but even if they are reading your posts and have it blocked now...
http://www.aftvnews.com/amazon-fire-tv-possibly-gaining-support-for-tv-tuners/


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Yeah thanks, I did see that before. :up:


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

I know you're up on the latest. :up: 
and I was thinking after the dual config is working a fire tv 3 might be my next upgrade down the line. Although I think instead I'll go for this...



HarperVision said:


> Mine powers a flux capacitor that allows my TiVo to go back in time and record all the shows I may have missed that I realize I want to watch now!


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Yep, that's a new service I'm trying to find financial backers for. I'm going to call it "TMoD", which means "Time Machine on Demand". 

Maybe Kickstarter?


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Yep, that's a new service I'm trying to find financial backers for. I'm going to call it "TMoD", which means "Time Machine on Demand".
> 
> Maybe Kickstarter?


I'll kickstart you with this time machine on demand video that will get you and your flux capacitor right back to 1985:




comcast wants to sell you a giant 60fps bun but no beef in the middle after they compress it


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

At least back in 1985 I could count on getting 720x480i NTSC video from my cable provider!


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

tivoyahoo said:


> completed GS as antenna only, got the ota channel list. inserted card, and and was prompted to rerun GS from very beginning where you select United States or Canada, and later had to make selection - antenna only, cable only. selected cable. at completion, the ota channel list was wiped and replaced by digital cable channel list. In other words, it didn't merge them both together. And under Channel & App Settings only cable signal strength is shown as a menu option.
> 
> So maybe the dual configuration only works once the 20.6.1 update is applied. Will try again. But would that mean running guided setup again as antenna only without card. and then inserting the card again and rerunning GS? or is there a step / trick I'm missing? maybe it's just a function of the software version.


So I tried again for dual ota & cable but this time with a roamio basic and 20.6.1a.RC10 and starting with ota configuration. but got the same result as with the bolt on older software described above. when you insert the cable card you get the cable card decoder screen - see attached. But then you are prompted to rerun GS and once you do that it's antenna only or cable only.  I can't get the both option for ota & cable. or an option to add cable to the existing ota. only get the rerun GS which takes you back to square one of selecting USA or Canada, and then antenna only or cable only. I tried going into cable card options (for installers) and just got to the same place. If I don't rerun GS I don't get any cable channels, the cable channel list isn't present and system info shows antenna source even while the card is inserted and you have the ota channel list until you rerun GS.

Haven't tried again with the Bolt. It's activated now and has 20.6.1RC14 (not the latest update like the roamio basic).


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Wow that's puzzling. Sorry to hear that. They must've closed the loophole finally. The last time I did it was back in Oct 2015 or so after getting my recently released Bolt. I'm afraid to try it again for fear of screwing mine up too!

Have you tried cancelling the initial request to run guided setup again after inserting the cablecard? Maybe if you say no when it asks, then go into the menus and do it manually it'll kick in the proper screen to set them both up?

Also, maybe the unit has to be fresh and clean, so maybe a "C & D Everything" first is warranted?


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Have you tried cancelling the initial request to run guided setup again after inserting the cablecard?


Yes, I've opted to not run guided setup but then I get this...



tivoyahoo said:


> If I don't rerun GS I don't get any cable channels, the cable channel list isn't present and system info shows antenna source even while the card is inserted and you have the ota channel list until you rerun GS.





HarperVision said:


> Maybe if you say no when it asks, then go into the menus and do it manually it'll kick in the proper screen to set them both up?


that sounds good, and I've said no, and been able navigate in the menus, but it essentially just runs as ota only at that point even with the card inserted. and you're just presented with the regular menus. So without rerunning guided setup, how how do you manually add the cable channels? It sounds like there is some magic screen that I'm missing, where the tivo somehow says, "oh I see you have a cable card inserted - do you want both ota & cable" but I can't seem to open that backdoor.

I've gone into the cable card menus and dvr diagnostics and the tivo sees the active cable card. And I'm pretty certain the card was talking to the headend because the values looked right (to a point), as far as con and val, as I recall, but then things were missing because the card wasn't indicating multiple tuners and tuning any cable channels, because the tivo was in ota only mode. so how do you manually add cable? I even tried doing a channel scan under antenna to see if the tivo might see the qam (because I had cable connected on the rf input) and pick it up that way prompting the backdoor screen somehow to say "oh, I see you're connected to cable from the scan, do you want cable too with your ota?". no luck. the scan registered a couple channels somehow - 66 & 67 for some reason, but they wouldn't tune and showed with their ota channel info. that should be a high frequency. and my oob is at 75MHz so that's not it. dvr diagnostics showed untuned.

so once I'm at that cable card decoder screen after card insertion, I'm in full control and can try any of the menu options if you have ideas. but from what I've tried it just seems stuck in ota mode. and won't pull the cable channel map without rerunning guided setup.

I might have run the initial channel scan without the card inserted, where it would have been looking at just qam off the connected cable without the card, but I think roamio will pick up qam channels without card unlike the bolt. maybe I need to run the antenna channel scan again, but with card inserted and see if that triggers something, as in "found new channels". but I can't think of any other way to manually add the digital cable channels without rerunning guided setup other than to somehow try to trick tivo into adding what I'm feeding it - qam with a cable card and hope it will recognize it and add it the ota channel list. otherwise rerunning guided setup wipes out the existing channel list - cable overwrites ota or ota overwrites cable when you rerun guided setup.

but if you've got other ideas on manually adding the cable channels, I'm all ears :up:

and btw, I've run guided setup with no card, cable connected to rf input not antenna, and selected ota only. and it just whizzes through the channel scan not finding anything, except for checkboxing 66&67 for some reason. I could try rerunning GS with card inserted and connected to cable but selecting ota only and see what happens. maybe tivo would pull the ota channel guide from the connection to tivo servers and maybe the tivo would see the qam channels once the card was there? and maybe that would fool tivo into merging what it pulled from the tivo server (ota channel list) and what it found in its own scan - qam channels. but I think it just ignores the qam when you tell it ota only in setup.



HarperVision said:


> Also, maybe the unit has to be fresh and clean, so maybe a "C & D Everything" first is warranted?


yeah, i did try that on the bolt when it was back on software 20.5.4. the only thing there was that it wasn't active at the time which might have been the issue (possibly). but with the roamio basic which is active and on the latest software I'm seeing the exact same tivo behavior that I saw with the inactive bolt on 20.5.4. and btw, the bolt ran with an activated paired card just fine as far as proper cable channel list and tuning on all 4 tuners and proper buffering. So I actually used it just fine for some time inactive for 4 tuner live tv with 30 min buffer on each, just no recording or apps.

*oh, and btw for anyone reading this, I activated a ver 1 Bolt in August 2016, long after that model was discontinued, and the 1 year of included service was no sweat. it's tied to the tsn. so there was no issue of tivo having closed the door and then having to lobby Tivo for the 1 year. it was automatic at activation - sailed through and no problem at all.*

so the bolt may be getting a new hard drive soon. so that might be the time to test it again in a C & D E state. I'm leaning on going 3.5" but I think you had some posts that your 2.5" was doing ok. Is that still the case? if you did it over, would you do 3.5" in enclosure connected to internal sata port on mainboard?

there are some older threads on bolt drive replacement. but there is a new one where this is getting discussed again as far as 2.5" vs. 3.5". I posted there:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10968036#post10968036

I haven't really seen a convincing case for 2.5" other than the 3TB toshiba, but there is a lot on this board I haven't read in that regard. So I'm close on doing a bolt drive swap, but just not all the way there on best way to implement it. And even if I was firmly in the 3.5" camp, there is still this question for example that I posted:

"between WD40EURX and WD40EFRX if they were priced the same, which is better choice for tivo?"

maybe that question is answered elsewhere on this board as far as av-gp being the pick, and that red are selected only for over 4TB, because there is no av-gp product offering over 4TB. but maybe if there was a 6TB av-gp, it would be favored over the 6TB red. but the 6TB red wins by default since there is no av-gp entry. or maybe someone has made the case that the 4TB red is better than the 4TB av-gp for tivo? don't know.

anyway, I've got a hgst 4TB in hand that may go into the bolt (well sit next to it at least) at which time I'd be CD&E because I don't think with current tools you can drive copy & expand to full 4TB. not that I've got much on the little 500GB that's worth saving. But I think you've got to start with a blank drive and mfsr it over 3TB up to 4TB. I don't think you can copy recordings direct drive to drive and end up with 4TB. I may have some recordings worth saving, but they are DRM, so it looks like I lose those if I go to 4TB+. so if that's the case I'd be at clean state, except I don't have 20.5.4 on bolt anymore. it's at 20.6.1.RC14. and tivo might be trying to update it to 20.6.1aRC10 like the roamio basic I tried. so worth a try on the bolt with software different than roamio software I tried and try bolt while still at RC14.

only other thought I had here is if somehow perhaps different cable systems acted differently when the cable card was inserted? I wouldn't think so, but just wondering if there might be some type of trigger. I can look at my cable card values again when I'm in ota mode to see what the card is showing. but as I recall it was picking up the vct id and headend and oob. but maybe that's something I need to look at more. so am trying to say, maybe with comcast the card remains in a more passive state compared to other systems where maybe it takes on a more active state and forces / triggers the issue on tivo. just some wild speculating since I'm puzzled. and I tried searching some of your posts to try to find posters who have had success with dual ota & cable to see what cable systems they were on but I'm not finding any - although I ran into some loooonnnnngggg posts in the moca thread and I may have stopped searching at that point getting lost in that. otherwise I'm wondering if twc as part of the mix has something to do with it.

but again, look forward to your thoughts and I can give some different angles / approaches a go. I'm sure it would be some peace of mind knowing it still works in case you want to go over 3TB in your bolt for example, because how would you do that and not have to run GS? but if you put your old hard drive back in would you get your old configuration back? or are those settings in the flash memory now (on a bolt) and not on the hard drive? do you revert back when you put in the prior drive?? or maybe you're stuck with never pulling the drive if you want to retain dual configuration?? I shouldn't say that though - haven't waved the white flag yet.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

so I guess it's too late to try to get the dual ota & cable for roamio/bolt question posed as part of this: Q&A with TiVo marketing chief Ira Bahr

and I wonder if Tivo really did close the door on the dual configuration then wouldn't that mean they might also do so on Roamio OTA models that are getting cable card brackets added as far as closing the door to cable on those. I don't suppose the results for dual ota/cable would be any different on a roamio ota than a roamio basic as far as success with dual configuration. but what happens when you go into guided setup on a roamio ota model? do you still get prompted with antenna only / cable only since it runs the same software? or if the cable only option is deleted, how do people that have added the cable card bracket then get the cable channel lineup added to configuration?? maybe that's where we need to be looking for clues/help because if those are ota only how are the cable channels backdoored in?? of course if cable only is an option in guided setup on a roamio ota model then that's the easy answer.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tivoyahoo said:


> Yes, I've opted to not run guided setup but then I get this... that sounds good, and I've said no, and been able navigate in the menus, but it essentially just runs as ota only at that point even with the card inserted. and you're just presented with the regular menus. So without rerunning guided setup, how how do you manually add the cable channels? It sounds like there is some magic screen that I'm missing, where the tivo somehow says, "oh I see you have a cable card inserted - do you want both ota & cable" but I can't seem to open that backdoor. I've gone into the cable card menus and dvr diagnostics and the tivo sees the active cable card. And I'm pretty certain the card was talking to the headend because the values looked right (to a point), as far as con and val, as I recall, but then things were missing because the card wasn't indicating multiple tuners and tuning any cable channels, because the tivo was in ota only mode. so how do you manually add cable? I even tried doing a channel scan under antenna to see if the tivo might see the qam (because I had cable connected on the rf input) and pick it up that way prompting the backdoor screen somehow to say "oh, I see you're connected to cable from the scan, do you want cable too with your ota?". no luck. the scan registered a couple channels somehow - 66 & 67 for some reason, but they wouldn't tune and showed with their ota channel info. that should be a high frequency. and my oob is at 75MHz so that's not it. dvr diagnostics showed untuned. so once I'm at that cable card decoder screen after card insertion, I'm in full control and can try any of the menu options if you have ideas. but from what I've tried it just seems stuck in ota mode. and won't pull the cable channel map without rerunning guided setup. I might have run the initial channel scan without the card inserted, where it would have been looking at just qam off the connected cable without the card, but I think roamio will pick up qam channels without card unlike the bolt. maybe I need to run the antenna channel scan again, but with card inserted and see if that triggers something, as in "found new channels". but I can't think of any other way to manually add the digital cable channels without rerunning guided setup other than to somehow try to trick tivo into adding what I'm feeding it - qam with a cable card and hope it will recognize it and add it the ota channel list. otherwise rerunning guided setup wipes out the existing channel list - cable overwrites ota or ota overwrites cable when you rerun guided setup. but if you've got other ideas on manually adding the cable channels, I'm all ears :up: and btw, I've run guided setup with no card, cable connected to rf input not antenna, and selected ota only. and it just whizzes through the channel scan not finding anything, except for checkboxing 66&67 for some reason. I could try rerunning GS with card inserted and connected to cable but selecting ota only and see what happens. maybe tivo would pull the ota channel guide from the connection to tivo servers and maybe the tivo would see the qam channels once the card was there? and maybe that would fool tivo into merging what it pulled from the tivo server (ota channel list) and what it found in its own scan - qam channels. but I think it just ignores the qam when you tell it ota only in setup. yeah, i did try that on the bolt when it was back on software 20.5.4. the only thing there was that it wasn't active at the time which might have been the issue (possibly). but with the roamio basic which is active and on the latest software I'm seeing the exact same tivo behavior that I saw with the inactive bolt on 20.5.4. and btw, the bolt ran with an activated paired card just fine as far as proper cable channel list and tuning on all 4 tuners and proper buffering. So I actually used it just fine for some time inactive for 4 tuner live tv with 30 min buffer on each, just no recording or apps. oh, and btw for anyone reading this, I activated a ver 1 Bolt in August 2016, long after that model was discontinued, and the 1 year of included service was no sweat. it's tied to the tsn. so there was no issue of tivo having closed the door and then having to lobby Tivo for the 1 year. it was automatic at activation - sailed through and no problem at all. so the bolt may be getting a new hard drive soon. so that might be the time to test it again in a C & D E state. I'm leaning on going 3.5" but I think you had some posts that your 2.5" was doing ok. Is that still the case? if you did it over, would you do 3.5" in enclosure connected to internal sata port on mainboard? there are some older threads on bolt drive replacement. but there is a new one where this is getting discussed again as far as 2.5" vs. 3.5". I posted there: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10968036#post10968036 I haven't really seen a convincing case for 2.5" other than the 3TB toshiba, but there is a lot on this board I haven't read in that regard. So I'm close on doing a bolt drive swap, but just not all the way there on best way to implement it. And even if I was firmly in the 3.5" camp, there is still this question for example that I posted: "between WD40EURX and WD40EFRX if they were priced the same, which is better choice for tivo?" maybe that question is answered elsewhere on this board as far as av-gp being the pick, and that red are selected only for over 4TB, because there is no av-gp product offering over 4TB. but maybe if there was a 6TB av-gp, it would be favored over the 6TB red. but the 6TB red wins by default since there is no av-gp entry. or maybe someone has made the case that the 4TB red is better than the 4TB av-gp for tivo? don't know. anyway, I've got a hgst 4TB in hand that may go into the bolt (well sit next to it at least) at which time I'd be CD&E because I don't think with current tools you can drive copy & expand to full 4TB. not that I've got much on the little 500GB that's worth saving. But I think you've got to start with a blank drive and mfsr it over 3TB up to 4TB. I don't think you can copy recordings direct drive to drive and end up with 4TB. I may have some recordings worth saving, but they are DRM, so it looks like I lose those if I go to 4TB+. so if that's the case I'd be at clean state, except I don't have 20.5.4 on bolt anymore. it's at 20.6.1.RC14. and tivo might be trying to update it to 20.6.1aRC10 like the roamio basic I tried. so worth a try on the bolt with software different than roamio software I tried and try bolt while still at RC14. only other thought I had here is if somehow perhaps different cable systems acted differently when the cable card was inserted? I wouldn't think so, but just wondering if there might be some type of trigger. I can look at my cable card values again when I'm in ota mode to see what the card is showing. but as I recall it was picking up the vct id and headend and oob. but maybe that's something I need to look at more. so am trying to say, maybe with comcast the card remains in a more passive state compared to other systems where maybe it takes on a more active state and forces / triggers the issue on tivo. just some wild speculating since I'm puzzled. and I tried searching some of your posts to try to find posters who have had success with dual ota & cable to see what cable systems they were on but I'm not finding any - although I ran into some loooonnnnngggg posts in the moca thread and I may have stopped searching at that point getting lost in that. otherwise I'm wondering if twc as part of the mix has something to do with it. but again, look forward to your thoughts and I can give some different angles / approaches a go. I'm sure it would be some peace of mind knowing it still works in case you want to go over 3TB in your bolt for example, because how would you do that and not have to run GS? but if you put your old hard drive back in would you get your old configuration back? or are those settings in the flash memory now (on a bolt) and not on the hard drive? do you revert back when you put in the prior drive?? or maybe you're stuck with never pulling the drive if you want to retain dual configuration?? I shouldn't say that though - haven't waved the white flag yet.


Yes my 2TB 2.5" Seagate drive is still going strong (knock on wood!)

I thought of something. I think maybe at one time I had the cablecard inserted when I initially did GS and when it got to the initial first time setup screen, it offered the three choices: OTA, Cable & OTA and Cable. So maybe a c and d everything is warranted? I do strictly recall doing what I've mentioned before by being setup with OTA then adding a cablecard which kicked it in. I've also done it with a TA.



tivoyahoo said:


> so I guess it's too late to try to get the dual ota & cable for roamio/bolt question posed as part of this: Q&A with TiVo marketing chief Ira Bahr and I wonder if Tivo really did close the door on the dual configuration then wouldn't that mean they might also do so on Roamio OTA models that are getting cable card brackets added as far as closing the door to cable on those. I don't suppose the results for dual ota/cable would be any different on a roamio ota than a roamio basic as far as success with dual configuration. but what happens when you go into guided setup on a roamio ota model? do you still get prompted with antenna only / cable only since it runs the same software? or if the cable only option is deleted, how do people that have added the cable card bracket then get the cable channel lineup added to configuration?? maybe that's where we need to be looking for clues/help because if those are ota only how are the cable channels backdoored in?? of course if cable only is an option in guided setup on a roamio ota model then that's the easy answer.


The first unit I tried is with was a Roamio OTA so I know that was capable of doing this too. I still have an unsubbed OTA so maybe I'll plug it in and try it again on that machine if I get time this weekend.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

so in guided setup, after selecting antenna only, it makes a connection, pulls the channel list and then gets to a screen "Antenna Channel Scan". am running that with cable feed connected to rf input (not antenna) and with an active/paired cable card inserted. that goes to "Beginning antenna scan. please wait" screen. that lasts about 5 seconds since there is nothing ota-wise to scan and you're quickly at channel scan complete saying the tive tivo box has determined which antenna channels you receive. next step is connecting to tivo service to get program information.

after that I see my regular ota channel list, with 3 channels checkboxed (and all their subchannels) - channels 66,67, and 68. so at first I thought maybe there is leakage of high frequency uhf into the cable system and comcast didn't care since it was unused frequency. but those are virtual channel numbers and the frequency/transmitter channel for those 3 are 34, 31, and 47

And the last one is from a tower way far away, so that one sure isn't leaking in. the first one is close enough that it could be. the middle one maybe. but if the first one is leaking in there should be more channels leaking in too. although maybe those are unused frequencies by comcast and if they are leaking in they don't care. so good to know in case I want to replace them via modulator.

but then I go to signal strength meter and it is absolute flat zero on all 3 of those channels and all their subchannels. so it's not antenna signal leaking into the cable system. And I don't understand why Tivo checkboxed those 3 channels after the antenna scan since they are dead flat zero on signal. odd. Did some channel flipping up and down with signal strength meter onscreen just to see what it might detect and nada across the board.

and then I ran channel scan. in that screen, unlike in guided setup, you get a green progress bar and % complete and Channels Found. Well that came up Zero channels found. again, this is with card inserted, cable connected trying to trigger the "qam backdoor". that then took me to a no channels found screen. 'We have not found any channels with high signal quality" and a graphic showing you to screw in the cable/ant to the rf infput highlighted. and "Please make sure that the coaxial RF cable is connected properly" and select 'Try Again" to rerun the scan. reran and nothing. but interesting that tivo leaves those 3 channels checkmarked in channel list. not sure how they get checkmarked in the first place since there is no signal found on them. again, odd. unless somehow it's mistaking the cable frequency. but I can't even get into a cable signal strength meter because that menu option isn't there in the case where you've run ota only setup. so as I suspected, tivo just seems to ignore qam.

In system information:
Program Source (1) Antenna
Source Input (1) Coax Antenna In

And then i put 66, 67 & 68 in 3 tuners and looked at Diagnostics and see "General tune error"

however vct id is correct, and oob signal lock is at right frequency with 40db snr. and all the card info is filled in.

then going into the Cable Card menu and "Test Cable Card Channels" you get "No Channels Available". In conditional access: con: yes val:v so it knows it's got a paired card.

but then active prg isn't there nor auth nor cci byte

on network setup screen for cable card the vct id is correct and I can see oob msgs value

tried a reboot via restart this tivo box menu option, to see if that might trigger something at reboot, e.g. if it detected on startup, "whoa you've got ota configuration, but card inserted" and perhaps might nag screen to rerun guided setup, but it just booted up and no mention of setup or the configuration being "off". reran channel scan - same result. system info - same thing. cable card values - same. so reboot didn't change anything.

so my latest thought is maybe the motorola cable card is the issue. or at least the variable to change to see if that gets a different result. It wouldn't be a matter of the cable system but more likely the card that might generate a different result. maybe it takes a different brand card and/or a tuning adapter to generate that magic backdoor screen of adding cable for "both ota & cable"


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Yes my 2TB 2.5" Seagate drive is still going strong (knock on wood!)


which model seagate? a 2TB seagate I looked at is: STBD2000102 but I could't find anything on it on TCF.



HarperVision said:


> I thought of something. I think maybe at one time I had the cablecard inserted when I initially did GS and when it got to the initial first time setup screen, it offered the three choices: OTA, Cable & OTA and Cable. So maybe a c and d everything is warranted?


but I tried essentially that with Bolt first time around and 20.5.4. but yes, i can try again if I put a new drive in and am at clean slate / cd&e.



HarperVision said:


> I do strictly recall doing what I've mentioned before by being setup with OTA then adding a cablecard which kicked it in. I've also done it with a TA.


what brand card? I'm using the motorola gold tip M multistream cards. I'm thinking that's the variable to change. and TA.



HarperVision said:


> The first unit I tried is with was a Roamio OTA so I know that was capable of doing this too.


have you done this with a roamio basic? or just roamio ota and bolt models? so the cable option is there with roamio ota - it's not some backdoor manual add.



HarperVision said:


> I still have an unsubbed OTA so maybe I'll plug it in and try it again on that machine if I get time this weekend.


does it have a cable card bracket? or would you test by adding a TA? I don't have a TA. but I do have one of the inactive/dead motorola m cards off ebay I could try. although I don't see how an inactive card would make a difference in this scenario to get the both option to pop up. however an SA card might. or a TA.

do you have a motorola card? because if you can replicate my results with the motorola card, but then get your old results with a different card or a TA and are successful then maybe we've got it figured out. or can you find any old posts where someone else has done this successfully and maybe we can figure out what card/TA they used?

it seems like if I can just get the that menu option and configuration to set in with different card/TA, then I just put the active paired moto card in the bracket slot and I'm rolling. I am pretty sure the menu screens are different for an SA card, but I haven't used one. but if that's the case then maybe it triggers a different behavior from Tivo and prompts the both option.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

@tivoyahoo,

Sorry I haven't responded yet. I was waiting to be able to have time to hookup my old Roamio OTA to see what happens. I'll try this weekend. 

I'm using SA/Cisco Cablecards and TAs. The 2TB Seagate 2.5" drive was one harvested from an external enclosure. I'll try to find the model #.

If you search this forum with my user name and something like "concurrent ota and cable" I'm sure you'll find the old posts about it. I know others have at least tried it and it worked in concept but not sure they ended up using it as a solution for anything like I did. Too much of a pain with only one RF coax input.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

OK, I had a chance to hook up the TiVo Roamio ota and at first when I did what I remembered doing initially by attaching a TA via USB, it acted the exact same way as you describe by saying to rerun guided setup and then giving only two options, Antenna Only and Cable Only (why does it give a Cable Only choice on a Roamio OTA?   )

Then I was like hmmmm, maybe they did close the loophole after all. Then I had a revelation, maybe if I select Antenna Only and then select, and then on the screen when it talks about having to connect to the TiVo servers, at that point I replugged in the TA and (I think) hit the back button and voila'.......now it gave me this familiar screen. I just now ran through guided setup for both antenna and cable simultaneously......again!


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tivoyahoo, I think what you want to do is get to the screen with the two options to setup cable only or antenna only, then at that point plug in your Cablecard and see if the "both" screen pops up. If not, select antenna only, go to the next screen where it says to connect to TiVo servers, then plug in your Cablecard and see what happens. You may have to go back one screen to kick it on. That's what I had to do.

Here's some more pix to tease you!


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Then I was like hmmmm, maybe they did close the loophole after all. Then I had a revelation, maybe if I select Antenna Only and then select, and then on the screen when it talks about having to connect to the TiVo servers, at that point I replugged in the TA and (I think) hit the back button and voila'.......now it gave me this familiar screen. I just now ran through guided setup for both antenna and cable simultaneously......again!


A revelation - Nice :up:
the magic backdoor has opened again for you.
I've been hunting for that Cable & Antenna option screen high and low. good to at least see a photo of it. And it's even more ironic that you get cable only option on a roamio ota at the first screen, but I guess that answers how the bracket users do it. but even better is the both cable & ota option of course.

some questions:
1. what software version is on this particular roamio ota?
2. so on your existing bolt / roamio with dual configuration, no problem pulling the guide data for both ota & cable ? (although maybe that could change) do you have RC10 on your dual configured boxes and is it still pulling both sets of data?
3. should I presume no cable card bracket on that particular roamio ota? and you weren't able to test trying to get that "both" screen with a card?

So I don't have a TA. I've never even used one. And is it a Tuning Adapter or Transport Adapter? I don't suppose I can buy one on ebay for $3 like I can buy a cable card.

But maybe it's all about the timing and inserting the TA/Card at the right screen within GS. So I'll have to give that a go. THANK YOU.

I have figured out that comcast seems to be delivering full bitrate on their sister property nbc station as compared to ota. So that's one ota station it looks like I can forget about trying to notch/merge in with cable. I posted some bitrate stats. But early data looks like comcast is chopping the bitrate on other broadcast networks to half what ota delivers, and half of what nbc is on cable. I know - you're shocked by those results  and were completely expecting a level playing feed courtesy of comcast. And would never have guessed they would put the bitrate squeeze on the competition.


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## idksmy (Jul 16, 2016)

HarperVision said:


> OK, I had a chance to hook up the TiVo Roamio ota and at first when I did what I remembered doing initially by attaching a TA via USB, it acted the exact same way as you describe by saying to rerun guided setup and then giving only two options, Antenna Only and Cable Only (why does it give a Cable Only choice on a Roamio OTA?   )
> 
> Then I was like hmmmm, maybe they did close the loophole after all. Then I had a revelation, maybe if I select Antenna Only and then select, and then on the screen when it talks about having to connect to the TiVo servers, at that point I replugged in the TA and (I think) hit the back button and voila'.......now it gave me this familiar screen. I just now ran through guided setup for both antenna and cable simultaneously......again!


Could you post your exact steps?

The reason I'm asking is I have a Roamio Basic with a cablecard and a tuning adapter currently connected to my cable company.

I've also run coax from my HD antenna in my attic to a coax A/B switch. One A/B coax output runs to my TV, letting me watch OTA by switching my TV input.

I'd love to be able to switch to either an OTA and a PSVue solution or a Basic cable and a PSVue solution.

Thanks!


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## idksmy (Jul 16, 2016)

tivoyahoo said:


> So I don't have a TA. I've never even used one. And is it a Tuning Adapter or Transport Adapter? I don't suppose I can buy one on ebay for $3 like I can buy a cable card.


TA = Tuning Adapter. The one from my cable provider is a Cisco device.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

idksmy said:


> Could you post your exact steps?
> 
> The reason I'm asking is I have a Roamio Basic with a cablecard and a tuning adapter currently connected to my cable company.
> 
> ...


So remove your card and ta. I believe you can leave cable feed on the rf input - shouldn't need to disconnect that. then rerun guided setup. select country USA or Canada. and then the next screen I believe is Antenna Only or Cable Only. And that's where the timing comes. connect the TA and see if it pops up the both antenna & cable option. or you may have to select antenna only and then go to next screen and then insert TA. and maybe then hit back. That's how I'm reading this...



HarperVision said:


> tivoyahoo, I think what you want to do is get to the screen with the two options to setup cable only or antenna only, then at that point plug in your Cablecard and see if the "both" screen pops up. If not, select antenna only, go to the next screen where it says to connect to TiVo servers, then plug in your Cablecard and see what happens. You may have to go back one screen to kick it on. That's what I had to do.


I will try it later today. but only have card to work with. unless the TA is the key, in which case ebay, where I see them mostly listed as Transport Adapters:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Comcast-DC5...apter-Self-Installation-Kit-New-/302042511752


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## idksmy (Jul 16, 2016)

Here's a link to a review of the TA I have.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tivoyahoo said:


> A revelation - Nice :up: the magic backdoor has opened again for you. I've been hunting for that Cable & Antenna option screen high and low. good to at least see a photo of it. And it's even more ironic that you get cable only option on a roamio ota at the first screen, but I guess that answers how the bracket users do it. but even better is the both cable & ota option of course. some questions:
> 
> 1. what software version is on this particular roamio ota?
> 2. so on your existing bolt / roamio with dual configuration, no problem pulling the guide data for both ota & cable ? (although maybe that could change) do you have RC10 on your dual configured boxes and is it still pulling both sets of data?
> ...


It took forever to complete the first guided setup I did, especially the download and loading part, and it loaded up the latest and greatest software onto my OTA.

No problems at all with pulling correct guide date. It took noticeably longer to do the guide data download after I selected both compared to the first time when I just did antenna.

Yes, no cablecard bracket for this OTA, but I did use a cablecard to do the exact same thing in this machine not too long ago as a test. I used the bracket from my Bolt.

It is a tuning adapter (sometimes called tuning resolver), NOT a transport adapter. They're two different things. A tuning adapter is for assisting a cablecard device to tune in SDV channels. A transport adapter is a device that people with older analog TVs use to tune in digital channels, the most basic of basic cable boxes you could say.

No surprise there if they're putting the squeeze to the competition and leaving their channels alone!



idksmy said:


> Could you post your exact steps? The reason I'm asking is I have a Roamio Basic with a cablecard and a tuning adapter currently connected to my cable company. I've also run coax from my HD antenna in my attic to a coax A/B switch. One A/B coax output runs to my TV, letting me watch OTA by switching my TV input. I'd love to be able to switch to either an OTA and a PSVue solution or a Basic cable and a PSVue solution. Thanks!





tivoyahoo said:


> So remove your card and ta. I believe you can leave cable feed on the rf input - shouldn't need to disconnect that. then rerun guided setup. select country USA or Canada. and then the next screen I believe is Antenna Only or Cable Only. And that's where the timing comes. connect the TA and see if it pops up the both antenna & cable option. or you may have to select antenna only and then go to next screen and then insert TA. and maybe then hit back. That's how I'm reading this... I will try it later today. but only have card to work with. unless the TA is the key, in which case ebay, where I see them mostly listed as Transport Adapters: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Comcast-DC50Xu-Digital-Transport-Adapter-Self-Installation-Kit-New-/302042511752


Yes idksmy, tivoyahoo is correct in the steps he describes. Also, before you do this and use that A/B switch, you do understand that you'll pretty kill your TiVo's auto record ability right? But if you do, I'd leave it on the cable I out of the switch when not in use so that its OOB signal can be received as much as possible.

A cablecard is all you need and the way I did it many times before I stumbled on the TA also being able to do it. Do not bother with trying to find a TA, use your cablecard.



idksmy said:


> Here's a link to a review of the TA I have.


Yes, that's the TA I have here as well.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Also, before you do this and use that A/B switch, you do understand that you'll pretty kill your TiVo's auto record ability right? But if you do, I'd leave it on the cable I out of the switch when not in use so that its OOB signal can be received as much as possible.
> 
> A cablecard is all you need and the way I did it many times before I stumbled on the TA also being able to do it. Do not bother with trying to find a TA, use your cablecard.


ok, giving the roamio basic another go this evening.

what do you mean by kill autorecord? you mean tivo suggestions? you just mean in a/b switch setting that recordings will fail for recordings set for cable channels when the switch is on ota, right? and vice versa when it's flipped to cable, that ota recordings will fail due to no signal. you won't kill it altogether, just half kill it essentially. or half cripple it. well really with dual configuration you're doubling the capability, so you're just back to where you were before but instead of having to rerun GS to switch between ota and cable you can flip a switch. or merge the two. btw, what happens if you kill moca (don't use it) can you use that frequency to modulate to without worry the cable company will utilize it ? and a poe filter.

as far as the oob, and leaving it for days at a time on ota, what do you think would happen? how long after you flip the switch would things resolve on the cable side?

also what's vcm connection? what does vcm stand for? is that an internet connection? and not affected by a/b switch? or something on the cable side?


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> It took forever to complete the first guided setup I did, especially the download and loading part, and it loaded up the latest and greatest software onto my OTA.


So based on that you must have been on earlier release that 20.6.1aRC10 when you did this most recent configuration. But now I'm wondering if you run Guided Setup again if the backdoor is now closed. here's why I wonder...



HarperVision said:


> A cablecard is all you need and the way I did it many times before I stumbled on the TA also being able to do it. Do not bother with trying to find a TA, use your cablecard.


I'm not getting the backdoor to open for dual / both ota & cable

Starting GS with card not inserted, you first select USA or Canada, then select zip code, then TV Programming Source: Cable Only, Antenna Only, select Antenna. Then Begin Network Connection Screen - The tivo box will now connect to the Tivo Service to get information needed for the next steps of Guided Setup. Press SELECT to begin connection. On that screen is where I've inserted the card prior to hitting Select, but I can't get the both ota & cable option to pop up. also it seems that screen is on a timer and will advance automatically if you don't press select. But I've inserted the card as soon as entering that screen. I've tried 5-6 times now with no luck. and I've hit the back arrow to antenna only and then come back to that screen. And I've pulled the card gone back to antenna inserted card and nothing. And I've tried it with the cable connected to rf input and with it disconnected. Was able one time to get a Cable Card Error screen saying: Technical problem is preventing you from receiving all cable services at this time. Please call your cable operator and report error code 161-1 to have the problem resolved. And I think that was from a series of inserting and removing the cards on the screens. got nowhere from there, did a reboot and tried again with same result. And then I tried inserting card again after the first Network Connection Screen.

So:
a) I must have some timing wrong
b) RC10 closed the backdoor
c) it's a motorola card difference between how the SA behaves
d) the key is the Tuning Adapter for RC10
or ??

Thoughts?

I guess I could give the bolt a try but it's at RC10 too


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tivoyahoo said:


> ok, giving the roamio basic another go this evening.
> 
> what do you mean by kill autorecord? you mean tivo suggestions? you just mean in a/b switch setting that recordings will fail for recordings set for cable channels when the switch is on ota, right? and vice versa when it's flipped to cable, that ota recordings will fail due to no signal. you won't kill it altogether, just half kill it essentially. or half cripple it. well really with dual configuration you're doubling the capability, so you're just back to where you were before but instead of having to rerun GS to switch between ota and cable you can flip a switch. or merge the two. btw, what happens if you kill moca (don't use it) can you use that frequency to modulate to without worry the cable company will utilize it ? and a poe filter.
> 
> ...


Yes, I mean it will kill the recordings for whatever input the switch isn't on, not suggestions.

I don't believe modulators can go that high up in frequency to be where MoCA is. Maybe the lower frequency around 1150MHz? I'd have to look at the specs of my MicroMod again.

No OOB for a long period of time would kill your cablecard pairing eventually, as I found out the hard way. 



> *VCM (Variable Coding & Modulation):*
> Variable Coding and Modulation (VCM) and Adaptive Coding and Modulation (ACM) are techniques that are strongly associated with the DVB-S2 standard. VCM can be used to provide different levels of error protection to different components within the service. It does this by allowing different combinations of modulation and FEC rate to be applied to different parts of the data stream.....


It's on the cable TV side.



tivoyahoo said:


> So based on that you must have been on earlier release that 20.6.1aRC10 when you did this most recent configuration. But now I'm wondering if you run Guided Setup again if the backdoor is now closed. here's why I wonder...
> 
> I'm not getting the backdoor to open for dual / both ota & cable.......


No, I never got to start guided setup until AFTER it downloaded and updated the software. It doesn't seem to matter if you have the newest software.



tivoyahoo said:


> ....Starting GS with card not inserted, you first select USA or Canada, then select zip code, then TV Programming Source: Cable Only, Antenna Only, select Antenna. Then Begin Network Connection Screen - The tivo box will now connect to the Tivo Service to get information needed for the next steps of Guided Setup. Press SELECT to begin connection. On that screen is where I've inserted the card prior to hitting Select, but I can't get the both ota & cable option to pop up. also it seems that screen is on a timer and will advance automatically if you don't press select. But I've inserted the card as soon as entering that screen. I've tried 5-6 times now with no luck. and I've hit the back arrow to antenna only and then come back to that screen. And I've pulled the card gone back to antenna inserted card and nothing. And I've tried it with the cable connected to rf input and with it disconnected. Was able one time to get a Cable Card Error screen saying: Technical problem is preventing you from receiving all cable services at this time. Please call your cable operator and report error code 161-1 to have the problem resolved. And I think that was from a series of inserting and removing the cards on the screens. got nowhere from there, did a reboot and tried again with same result. And then I tried inserting card again after the first Network Connection Screen.
> 
> So:
> a) I must have some timing wrong
> ...


Answers:
a) Maybe try inserting the card while you're at the screen asking for "Cable Only" and " Antenna Only"
b) As I said above, RC10 shouldn't matter, it didn't for me.
c) Maybe, but I can't see how. It seems to be something that kicks in when it detects a cable device like a TA and/or cablecard.
d) Maybe the TA is key, but not RC10.

RC10 doesn't matter, so maybe try the Bolt.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> I don't believe modulators can go that high up in frequency to be where MoCA is. Maybe the lower frequency around 1150MHz? I'd have to look at the specs of my MicroMod again.


may not have to go that high:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_over_Coax_Alliance#Frequency_band_plan



HarperVision said:


> No OOB for a long period of time would kill your cablecard pairing eventually, as I found out the hard way.


how long did you let it go? was the device powered on / off?

is vcm an issue at all like oob if switch flipped to ota?



HarperVision said:


> No, I never got to start guided setup until AFTER it downloaded and updated the software. It doesn't seem to matter if you have the newest software.


so backdoor is still open in RC10 :up: that is good news.



HarperVision said:


> Answers:
> a) Maybe try inserting the card while you're at the screen asking for "Cable Only" and " Antenna Only"
> b) As I said above, RC10 shouldn't matter, it didn't for me.
> c) Maybe, but I can't see how. It seems to be something that kicks in when it detects a cable device like a TA and/or cablecard.
> ...


tried a) this last time around, more than once
b) :up:
c) not kicking in for motorola. I'll try my inactive ebay card. this one still a ?? maybe a SA gives different result
d) this one is in the lead for me as far as my guesses.

so I could try another card and try the bolt to see if I can get different result. i wonder if *idksmy* is still following and going to give it a try??

looks like tuning adapters start at $35+ on ebay. none in my area on CraigsList, because they aren't in use. SA cards are $15 on ebay.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tivoyahoo said:


> may not have to go that high:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_over_Coax_Alliance#Frequency_band_plan
> 
> how long did you let it go? was the device powered on / off?
> ...


Maybe use MoCA A,B or C band if your tuner can tune 875-1000MHz

I don't recall how long it took, sorry. Maybe a week, idk. Device was powered on but I had a VHF/UHF splitter installed with the ATSC on the VHF leg and cable on the UHF leg, so it cut off the OOB frequency and eventually the card unpaired. Stupid that I didn't think of that when I installed it, DOH!

Not sure what happened with VCM. I didn't notice anything until the card became unpaired.

I highly doubt it has to be a TA. A cablecard should be able to do the same thing unless the back door closed for cablecards only and they didn't think of TAs when they re-coded it....until now! 

SA cards vs Motorola shouldn't matter either. They shouldn't be $15 on eBay either. I paid less than that for a lot of 10 of them. I still have a few left if you want me to mail you one? Just send me a label or Paypal to cover it.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> I highly doubt it has to be a TA. A cablecard should be able to do the same thing unless the back door closed for cablecards only and they didn't think of TAs when they re-coded it....until now!


shhhh..



HarperVision said:


> SA cards vs Motorola shouldn't matter either. They shouldn't be $15 on eBay either. I paid less than that for a lot of 10 of them. I still have a few left if you want me to mail you one? Just send me a label or Paypal to cover it.


that's a nice offer. thanks. especially after I made you and garth hurl apparently. hopefully you don't need to clean your tivo now with some special cloths and lots of pledge.

but maybe i'm doing something wrong. maybe idksmy can try with a motorola card and let us know but we don't know his card model. or maybe they have shut the backdoor for cards?

so you're sure rc10 is backdoor open for TA at least. would you want to rerun GS on one of your other boxes and try with SA card? moving the cable card bracket again to ota I'm sure would be a pain. although I've never done it. but those bent pin possibilities don't thrill me.

I don't suppose there is some way a computer can act as a TA can it? if I could get even a temporary simulation to trick the tivo into thinking a TA was on the usb port. maybe put the cisco drivers on a usb flash drive and try to fool it. hmmm....

tempted to start a new thread as well as I'm sure others would want to try dual config and could test a SA card and this method and post. but then that might cause a rush at the backdoor that Tivo wants closed. hmmm....


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

I found my original thread that I started back in 2014 after I discovered this and it may uncover some new timing of how and when to do it to kick in:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=522302&highlight=cable+ota+at+the+same+time



HarperVision said:


> As I mentioned in another thread, I hooked up an antenna and redid guided setup. I left the cablecard and TA connected and only hooked up the antenna and disconnected the coax cable feed. When I got to the section right after it asked if I was setting up antenna or cable (I selected antenna of course), the next screen detected that I had a tuning adapter connected so it asked me if I wanted to setup for antenna AND cable or continue with only antenna setup. I was curios of course so I selected cable and antenna setup. It went through its usual paces and asked what cable provider I have, then downloaded what it usually does, then lo and behold it went to a follow on screen to scan and setup the antenna channels! I did that and once the scan was done it downloaded data again and voila', now both cable and antenna channels all show up in the guide, merged together! Of course only the antenna channels came in since that's what was hooked up, but the interesting part comes in when I swapped the coax cables back to the cable feed and now all of THOSE channels come in too.
> 
> I'm thinking if someone really wants, they could use one of those old A/B RF coax switches with both OTA and cable. It could screw up some recordings of course, if the switch is in the wrong position when a recording starts on the other coax feed.
> 
> I think I may have read something like this awhile ago when the Roamio was new and a lot of questions were being asked, but I don't think anyone ever got this far before, where they could feasibly have both at the same time, albeit using an RF switch. If so........never mind!


So it looks like if you just leave the cablecard and/or TA connected, and then run guided setup and select antenna only, the next screen will say it detected CC/TA and offer to set them both up! :up:


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

Thanks. but I've tried that, at least with card inserted, and nada. so maybe the TA really is the key that unlocks the backdoor. that code was in there in 2014. probably get left in there in the case of the TA as you speculated. and we should delete this thread to keep it open


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

if you rerun guided setup on one of your carded boxes, you'd know if it's truly the TA or not. you may want to do that anyway post-rovi update. have you gotten it on any boxes? not seeing posters in the west it seems like. seems like posters are all mentioning the E in the channel callsigns wondering what the heck it is and what an east feed is. I had the dtv waiver back in 1999 (pre spot beams; only 101) so I could get the distant locals / east feeds in the west.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> I have had success every time I have used a cablecard AND a TA to get my Roamio Basic, Roamio OTA and Bolt ALL to do dual, concurrent OTA antenna and cable simultaneously. It doesn't only take a TA to kick it in. A cablecard will do. I don't even think it's a "back door", it's just in the TiVo UI from the Premiere 2 tuner and older days, there waiting to be utilized.


just read above in other thread

ok, will try again if you are convinced. but it may take the TA with RC10 and rerunning GS yourself to convince you.

thanks for digging up old thread.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tivoyahoo said:


> Thanks. but I've tried that, at least with card inserted, and nada. so maybe the TA really is the key that unlocks the backdoor. that code was in there in 2014. probably get left in there in the case of the TA as you speculated. and we should delete this thread to keep it open





tivoyahoo said:


> if you rerun guided setup on one of your carded boxes, you'd know if it's truly the TA or not. you may want to do that anyway post-rovi update. have you gotten it on any boxes? not seeing posters in the west it seems like. seems like posters are all mentioning the E in the channel callsigns wondering what the heck it is and what an east feed is. I had the dtv waiver back in 1999 (pre spot beams; only 101) so I could get the distant locals / east feeds in the west.





tivoyahoo said:


> just read above in other thread
> 
> ok, will try again if you are convinced. but it may take the TA with RC10 and rerunning GS yourself to convince you.
> 
> thanks for digging up old thread.


They certainly could have thought they closed the hole by blocking cablecards and forgot about the TA. I'll see if I can check it.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

with card inserted, did a reboot. only other variable was I had the ethernet disconnected. remember how I said after you select antenna you go to this screen:

Begin Network Connection Screen - The tivo box will now connect to the Tivo Service to get information needed for the next steps of Guided Setup

and that it seemed like it had a timer on it where it would automatically connect after so long. You can delay that by left arrowing back to the antenna only / cable only selection page.

well decided this time to leave ethernet disconnected. selected antenna hoping I would get the both antenna & cable option but didn't happen. got the Choose Network Hookup screen where you select Ethernet or Wireless. if you have ethernet connected with dhcp set from router, tivo doesn't even bother with that screen. it just uses the dynamic ip set for ethernet and takes you right to Begin Network Connection, which you can left arrow back from. but from the Choose Network Hookup screen you can't left arrow back. So I pulled card, waited a bit, then reinserted. I could see the screen flash a bit. perhaps from the card being recognized. or perhaps I bumped the hdmi cable. in any case, no choose both screen. remains on choose network hookup screen. chose eithernet, goes to Begin Network Connection, hit select and it connects to server on the Getting Setup Info screen. No both option popup.

At the completion of the Getting Setup Info connection. I pulled the card and reinserted. nothing. then hitting select advances to next screen: Antenna Channel Scan. Tried pulling and reinserting the card on that screen and that did trigger something odd. It went straight back to the Getting Setup Info screen and began another connection instead of doing the Antenna Channel scan. so clearly it detected the card, but there was no both both selection option. Also it very quickly began the connection without me hitting select to start the connection. after you finish the connection the next page is Name this Tivo box. If course named it "DualOTACable" just for good luck  Then back to Antenna Channel Scan. btw, all these attempts have been with cable connected. finishes the antenna scan in less than 10 seconds. then it connects again and says that it's received Program Info, followed by Congratulations, You've completed GS. Immediately go to Channel List and it's all ota channels so it ran as ota only.

So a little different sequence with the ethernet pulled at beginning. and starting with card inserted. and trying to re-insert card on a different screen - choose network setup and antenna channel scan. but same result. another swing and a miss. it seems to be picking up on something changing with card insertion, but not triggering the both antenna & cable option.

I'm thinking once you get onto rovi data on one of your carded boxes, then run another guided setup, just as a fresh start, but leave the TA disconnected and see if you can get the both antenna & cable popup screen with just card and not TA. if it doesn't pop up, but does popup with TA insertion, then we know that's the missing link.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

as one more test, i reran GS but selected cable, and next screen shows CableCard Decoder and M-Card inserted. so clearly the tivo was aware of the card. Then I hit back arrow and selected antenna thinking "ok, I reminded tivo that a card was inserted" and it see it - says "card inserted" but again same result = didn't help.

btw, I've inserted and removed the card so many times I've knocked the green plastic knob off the lever that dislodges the card. so now I just use a screwdriver to push the metal lever the plastic piece fit onto. I wonder if that pops back on? just leaving it off for now til I'm done inserting and pulling out, inserting and pulling out, rinse and repeat trying various combinations.

but I'm thinking I'm inserting in the wrong slot and that the usb port is the real key. with TA.

but thought perhaps I'd fouled up the card after all the attempts and that could have been part of problem. so after exhausting options I ran cable setup just to make sure card was still working properly. tuned to premium - still paired. all good. so I didn't break the card. yet.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

FYI, I just had to rerun guided setup due to the Rovi guide change last night and after I selected USA in the first screen, I hit the ENTER button to go to the advanced setup options. I selected Installers Express Setup while I had my cablecard and TA still hooked up. The next screen asked if I wanted to setup cable or antenna. I selected antenna. This then prompted me again if I wanted to setup BOTH cable and antenna, so I selected both and off it went again and setup both reception modes.

I'm really not sure why yours just won't do that, tivoyahoo?


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