# Good-bye... sniff...



## cmlawrence (Feb 20, 2002)

Well, after many happy years with my HR10-250, followed by a few miserable months with bad software upgrades that made my system completely unstable and unusable, I bit the bullet and got my completely free upgrade to the HR21.

I've used it for about a week, and I'm as big a Tivo fan as the next guy. I have to say, it's just as good. In fact, better, as the unit is much more responsive than my HR10-250. Just feels quicker.

The only downside is the fast forward and rewind are not as smooth as the Tivo. It has a different feel, but I've already gotten used to it. The only other thing it seems to be missing is the suggestions, which I never used anyway.

Good luck guys - hope I have an opportunity to get a Tivo in the near future. Tivo sort of has that near-death feeling as Palm - no significant upgrades in a long time, and everyone catching up to them. I hope they turn it around.

C


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

cmlawrence said:


> Well, after many happy years with my HR10-250, followed by a few miserable months with bad software upgrades that made my system completely unstable and unusable, I bit the bullet and got my completely free upgrade to the HR21.
> 
> I've used it for about a week, and I'm as big a Tivo fan as the next guy. I have to say, it's just as good. In fact, better, as the unit is much more responsive than my HR10-250. Just feels quicker.
> 
> ...


My guess is that you haven't seen or used a stand alone Tivo. It's a shame that Direct chose to hold back so many features that were available - but if that had happened, my guess is they would have had a revolt, seeings as how they are just now coming out with these things on their own imitation.


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## Ozam (Dec 13, 2002)

I was in the same boat 4 months ago. The HR21 works just fine, and there are some very nice features, but its day to day usability (ff, dual buffers, stop, pause, etc) just is not as smooth as it was with a TIVO. Part of the issue is that a TIVO's remote is outstanding. Most of us can use without looking down. Unfortunately, the HR21 remote, while functional, just is not as user friendly........in my opinion.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

I've just replaced 2 of my 3 HR10's with HR20's. (#3 coming as soon as it dies, which should be soon). I really like it. The only thing I serioulsy miss is the dual buffers. We used that ALL the time.


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## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

Glad you got used to the HR21 but please dont call it an upgrade .... We still need dual buffers, faster channel changes, better slo mo, etc. and we dont want D* to get the wrong idea.


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## cmlawrence (Feb 20, 2002)

I guess it just felt like an upgrade given that I haven't had a stable system in over 4 months. But, you're right - it's missing some features (that I don't miss too much...).


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## HDTV_Duffus (Nov 15, 2004)

cmlawrence said:


> Well, after many happy years with my HR10-250, followed by a few miserable months with bad software upgrades that made my system completely unstable and unusable, I bit the bullet and got my completely free upgrade to the HR21.
> 
> I've used it for about a week, and I'm as big a Tivo fan as the next guy. I have to say, it's just as good. In fact, better, as the unit is much more responsive than my HR10-250. Just feels quicker.
> 
> ...


I finally received the call from D* offering the "free upgrade" and took the plunge after some long consultation with my wife (a HUGE TiVO fan).

The install was relatively painless and I was absolutely amazed at how much HD we were missing........BUT, my wife has not stopped complaining since the unit was turned on.

We have had nearly daily freezes that can last from a couple of minutes to 15 minutes, 1 automatic reboot, 1 self reboot, and a very different UI.

I have become accepting of the unit d/t the HD offerings, my wife on the other hand has not. She rants about the inability to search for programs - she is very skilled with the TiVo UI and has spent an enormous amount of time trying to master the HR21 to no avail.

It just isn't as good as the TiVo when it comes to the feature set and the lack of DLBs is ridiculous.

It now appears I will be running additional lines for the HD TiVo to sit side-by-side with the HR21 in the theatre room to keep peace in the home......

I applaud the HD offerings, but this is not a first rate DVR!

I relinquish the soapbox.


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## Brad Bishop (Sep 11, 2001)

HDTV_Duffus said:


> BUT, my wife has not stopped complaining since the unit was turned on.


Yeah - They'll do that...


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

cmlawrence said:


> In fact, better, as the unit is much more responsive than my HR10-250. Just feels quicker.


Yeah. That's one of my favorites things about the HR20 too.


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## sloan (Feb 13, 2003)

One of the things I hate about the HR20 (I'll assume the HR21 is about the same) is that you can't turn off the preview window at the top when looking at the GUIDE or LIST.

(If you know how to turn it off, let me know, I exhausted the setup menu options I think).

Why? Sports. I record a game, and with any Tivo, before I turn on the TV, I click "Left, Left, Left" and I KNOW I'm at the Tivo main menu. Then I can start up the game I recorded.

With the HR2x, I gotta mute and block the upper right with my hand, as I navigate to the correct game recording. 
Man I hate this.

The FF and RW functions, I guess Tivo must have the patent on their system or something, because the HR2x is just not as smooth.

I don't have the HR2x, just some things about it.
If you've never had a Tivo in your life, then you'll probably think the HR2x is the cat's meow.
Oh how Tivo has spoiled us.

I have a HDTivo that I use for OTA, and I use the HR2x or non network(ota) stuff.

...........

The extra HD channels are nice. The TivoHD gives me a fix when I need it I guess.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

sloan said:


> One of the things I hate about the HR20 (I'll assume the HR21 is about the same) is that you can't turn off the preview window at the top when looking at the GUIDE or LIST.
> 
> (If you know how to turn it off, let me know, I exhausted the setup menu options I think).
> 
> ...


No, there is no way to turn it off. It's a top wishlist item on DBSTalk. People either like it or hate it. But it was an often requested item to add to the Tivo's for many years because pretty much every cable box out there and sat receiver out there has it. Industry standard if you will. And now the Comcast Tivo has it. So Tivo was the lone hold out.

Again, not saying it's bad or good but it's there because it's "standard" feature in the industry.

A Tip: Mute. Hit List and play. Unmute. Look at the screen. Assuming your sporting event is the top recording then you're all set. If not then it's playing something else and you can pull the list back up and start your sporting event. Not much different then I remember of hitting the Tivo button to bring up the menus before turning the TV on. Then navigate and start the sporting event.



> The FF and RW functions, I guess Tivo must have the patent on their system or something, because the HR2x is just not as smooth.


I hear this complaint from time to time but it's fine for me. I FFW and when the commercial is over I hit play. I don't even notice if it's "smooth" or not. Honestly, I'm FFWing, I don't care what it looks like. Just get me back to the program. What I have seen is the FFW on MPEG2 material is "smoother" where MPEG4 is a bit more choppy. Since the Tivo doesn't do MPEG4 it's hard to tell if it's a nature of MPEG4 or the DVR.


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## bpratt (Nov 20, 2004)

> One of the things I hate about the HR20 (I'll assume the HR21 is about the same) is that you can't turn off the preview window at the top when looking at the GUIDE or LIST.
> 
> (If you know how to turn it off, let me know, I exhausted the setup menu options I think).


I usually tune to a channel I don't receive (80 in my case). That way it shows a black screen with a 771 error and no sound when looking at the Guide or List or after watching a recorded show.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

sloan said:


> One of the things I hate about the HR20 (I'll assume the HR21 is about the same) is that you can't turn off the preview window at the top when looking at the GUIDE or LIST...Man I hate this...


I not only hate the video PIP (actually what I hate is the arrogance of DTV for not making a way to turn it off in prefs) I hate the fact that when you delete a program you have just watched, it unceremoniously dumps you into whatever inane AUDIO that accompanies whatever channel you left the box on. In case you haven't yet guessed, the odds of me wanting to be annoyed by extraneous audio from a channel I am no longer watching are near nil, folks (especially if I am recording it and don't want to hear about that grand-slam homer that changed everything).

To top that off, one would think that you could just quickly mute the audio or pause the video. Think again. just after delete, the PIP program is maddeningly temporarily immune to pause commands for about 3 seconds. So those in charge of improving the HR2x ergonomics would be well-advised to listen carefully to those of us who don't particularly like this, and we are legion, BTW. IOW, F-in fix it already!

Just because you can do something (PIP) doesn't automatically make it a good idea, or a better idea than Tivo, which gracefully returns you to a SILENT Now Playing screen on delete, just like it should, and just like pretenders to the throne should as well.

But if you really want to find something to hate about the HR2x (and granted, there isn't much, and a whole lot less to hate than we expected) try slo-mo. Then try it with weak batteries. What a pitiful joke.



sloan said:


> ...The FF and RW functions, I guess Tivo must have the patent on their system or something, because the HR2x is just not as smooth...


I would not think one could patent FFW, which is essentially clocking frames out faster than normal and dropping many of the intermediate ones. In terms of how the technology to do that is applied, all DVRs do that about the same.

That said, there are differences--some DVRs give you 4 fps playback at FFW while others give you 30 fps. The older DISH DVRs were great in that regard, always giving you 30 fps playback even at blinding FFW and RW speeds.

Tivo does that on FFW1, but goes to about 5-10 fps at the faster speeds. The HR2x appears to do the same with MPEG-2 material (maybe 4 fps), but with MPEG-4 material even FFW1 is 4 fps, which is probably because of the GOP structure of MPEG-4, where I-frames are much further apart (meaning the blame can't be placed on the DVR).

So really, the HR2x performs about the same as Tivo on FFW, it just seems not to when all of your content is MPEG-4 (where it can't be as smooth). If Tivo ever produces an MPEG-4 DVR, we'll see how well they handle that particular challenge, I guess. My prediction is that it will present the same issues for them as it has for the HR2x.


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## tpdkrau (Mar 26, 2007)

I found the PIP annoying at first, but now I just leave the HR21 tuned to a music channel. Unless I'm recording 2 shows at once, the HR21 doesn't display the show I'm recording when I turn it on.


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## hoopsrgreat (Jan 2, 2005)

I had 2 sd tivos and an hr10-250 for a few years. I currently have no tivos and 3 hr-20s.

I have not had a single glitch in an hr20 as far as reboot, freezing up or anything.

I do wish I had DLB and I thought it was really going to piss me off at night when Im switching back and forth watching sportscenter and cnn or whatever else. I have gotten used to recording one channel that I know I want to watch, and surfing with the other tuner. 

I can fast forward pretty easily and it is choppier looking at it, but who really cares as you aint watching the show in FF.


At this point if you have D* and you are still using a an HD tivo you are IMO, missing out in too much HD content. I have gotten used to the D* machine and it really is just not so different that it bothers me that much.

And trust me, if you go back and search my posts on this forum, I was really pissed about lack of DLB, so much that I held out for as long as possible. I did not think I would be able to ever ajust to life without DLB.... I have.

Now if i could get it back, i would in a second.

By the way, I have an hd tivo for 40 bucks plus shipping if anyone is interested.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

TyroneShoes said:


> I not only hate the video PIP (actually what I hate is the arrogance of DTV for not making a way to turn it off in prefs) ...


I think it's more the utter stupidity of not bothering to understand the marketplace. If they had bothered to check with their customers, they would have seen a 'love it / hate it' dichotomy.

To me, this is just evidence of a company coming along and saying 'me too'. You normally expect a copy-cat product to have some big improvement over it's competitors - oops D* got rid of it's competitors, so they can do whatever


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## CessnaDriver (Oct 25, 2003)

*peeks in*

Wow, there are still users here?

*logs off*


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

RS4 said:


> I think it's more the utter stupidity of not bothering to understand the marketplace...


In case you hadn't noticed, not giving the ability to turn off "love it / hate it" features is exactly what I was talking about when I commented on the arrogance of them not providing that capability. So as much as I hate to admit it, we are really making the same argument here, not a different one as you seem to think.

But the HR2x crew can easily respond to this, and don't be too surprised if they do. The HR10 crew would have a very hard time responding to things in this manner, as they are hampered by an obsolete and dying platform, DTV red tape, and their own brain-dead ham-handedness in implementing 6.x.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

CessnaDriver said:


> *peeks in*
> 
> Wow, there are still users here?
> 
> *logs off*


Point taken. All one has to do is compare traffic here to traffic at DBSTalk/HR2x.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of old coots, shotguns in hand, who will simply not be removed from their front porches by reality. And there are still those who's apparent main purpose in life is to moan about how DTV ruined their lives. Those two demographics make up much of what's left. If there were not a few bright minds left, as well, I would find little reason to visit either.


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## CessnaDriver (Oct 25, 2003)

I do love my Tivo and hope that Directv brings it back someday...

But in the mean time, I am embracing what is out there. It's being supported and continually upgraded, and now it does way more than the trusty Tivo ever did (unhacked).

If they could take the features of the HR2x and put the Tivo face on it, then that would be heaven.


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