# Wireless N transfer speeds summary



## rpgonzalez (May 18, 2010)

I personally couldn't really find any existing numbers regarding the premiere, wireless-N and transfer speed to my computer. Wireless N claims 300Mbps capability, and I was dubious of the claim. So I bought some network routers and a wireless N for the tivo to &#8220;experiment&#8221;. The experiment was not perfect, there were large margins of errors, so my numbers are &#8220;general."

I tested Roxio Tivo Transfer (which is easy and awesome to use, if you have Toast already) and iTiVo with decrypt/copy setting. Both programs yielded SAME transfer times everytime, but the itivo did not yield watchable material. Roxio was ready to go using toast video player. I am sharing some findings, if anyone should be as geeky as I am  

300mbps with the tivo is (as expected) a fantasy. Max throughput using ethernet to ethernet from tivo to my macbook pro was 39Mbps, using several different routers. The bottle neck has something to do with my macbooks, since any mac to mac wired transfer maxed out at 39Mbps. No anti-virus was being run. Anyway...

My first question was, since 54Mbps is the max for wireless g, is the N vs G a useless argument? No. g modes were generally about half the rate of n modes. So, converting to N is a great idea! (albeit not perfect).

Airport Express: 39Mbps in 5Ghz N mode only. 18Mbps in mixed mode. I dont know why?!?! Seems like N was not turning on. 

Belkin routers: The "basic&#8221; N150 only liked one wireless client, and not two. However, it did well in mixed b,g,n mode (35Mbps with one wireless client). Even faster in n-mode only (38Mbps), again with ONE wireless client. 

To solve the problem I tried a couple of other Belkins. With two wireless clients in mixed mode OR N mode the rate was 30Mbps. Up to 39 when the tivo is hardwired. 

Last router was a &#8220;nice&#8221; router. Netgear wireless-N 300. Two wireless N&#8217;s in mixed mode was 39Mbps. Just like wired, with ultimate flexibility. 

Summary: using the premiere with a netgear wireless N router is as fast or close enough to hardwired ethernet. Wireless g is half that fast, and now officially painful to watch. Any questions, Ill be happy to answer (since Im sure my post makes NO sense whatsoever )


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

With my DlinK DAp1522 Wireless Bridges/Access Points. Whether I use 2.4Ghz or 5Ghz N I get identical speeds to a wired connection. I have no problem getting 90mbs transfer rates between premieres using wireless N. The same as when it's connected to my wired network. Using PCs I have no problem getting close to 150mbs throughput with wireless N.

But I also have multiple DAP1522 units setup as Access Points that are optimally placed to guarantee i can always get very fast speeds anywhere I connect inside wirelessly.

Soon I'll begin my migration of the majority of my seventy network devices off my gigabit wired network to my wireless N network(2.4Gh and 5Ghz mostly 5Ghz). I'll keep my 30+ gigabit devices on my wired gigabit network and the slow 100mbs devices will be put on the wireless network using the wireless bridges. this will include all the Premieres.


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## rpgonzalez (May 18, 2010)

I found the same with 2.4GHz vs 5GHz. They are not really all that different (except for the airport express for some reason). I tried running several streams of 2.4Ghz signal, and they did not seem to interfere with each other. I even microwaved a hot dog and talked on my cordless phone just for fun. Made no difference, I suspect 5Ghz might be only beneficial for someone in an apartment building or something. 

90mbps sounds insanely fast. Thats a 1gig file in 88 seconds. Are we talking the same language  why the heck is my mac being such a slow child? Wired or wireless makes no difference.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

rpgonzalez said:


> I found the same with 2.4GHz vs 5GHz. They are not really all that different (except for the airport express for some reason). I tried running several streams of 2.4Ghz signal, and they did not seem to interfere with each other. I even microwaved a hot dog and talked on my cordless phone just for fun. Made no difference, I suspect 5Ghz might be only beneficial for someone in an apartment building or something.
> 
> 90mbps sounds insanely fast. Thats a 1gig file in 88 seconds. Are we talking the same language  why the heck is my mac being such a slow child? Wired or wireless makes no difference.


90mbs is what the transfer history on the Premiere network diagnostics page shows. This is Premiere to Premiere.


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## rpgonzalez (May 18, 2010)

aaronwt said:


> 90mbs is what the transfer history on the Premiere network diagnostics page shows. This is Premiere to Premiere.


 I guess I asked the wrong question. You're getting 150 to the PC. I dont have two premieres to try. Any ideas on why tivo --> computer is slow for me?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

rpgonzalez said:


> I guess I asked the wrong question. You're getting 150 to the PC. I dont have two premieres to try. Any ideas on why tivo --> computer is slow for me?


No idea. I'v enever had any speed issues with winXP, Vista or Win7.

I'm not familiar with any Apple stuff.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

rpgonzalez said:


> Summary: using the premiere with a netgear wireless N router is as fast or close enough to hardwired ethernet. Wireless g is half that fast, and now officially painful to watch. Any questions, Ill be happy to answer (since Im sure my post makes NO sense whatsoever )


Did you see the FAQ stickied at the top of the forum? It doesn't have 802.11n numbers yet, but it does compare other solutions.










Wireless N throughput often varies quite dramatically by router. Many also vary in their performance under different scenarios / conditions.

My favorite 802.11n router is the Netgear WNDR3700, but to get an accurate picture of what the TiVo 802.11n adapter can do, you probably need to use several of those adapters and disable wireless on the router.


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## rpgonzalez (May 18, 2010)

bkdtv said:


> Did you see the FAQ stickied at the top of the forum? It doesn't have 802.11n numbers yet, but it does compare other solutions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeah, I saw those graphs, which is why I started the N testing, because I wanted to see what N could do. I realize that my numbers are problematic, I dont know why, but at least I think that my conclusion leads to the possibility that N numbers might compare to wired ethernet.


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## shaown (Jul 1, 2002)

I can confirm I am get 90 mb Premiere to Premier over ethernet, on the other hand I am getting about 12 with Tivo Wireless G 
If I can find a way to permanantly get a wire upstairs, I will probably go for a Tivo N adaptor.
-Shaown


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## andrewl570 (Apr 7, 2010)

does the wireless n dongle work with the Tivo HD?


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## rpgonzalez (May 18, 2010)

andrewl570 said:


> does the wireless n dongle work with the Tivo HD?


I have read another opinion that the HD box is not limited by transfer speed, it is limited by the processing speed in that box. So the increase may not be realized. However, the N adaptor has moved over to being a network bridge (plugged into the ethernet jack) and not USB, so it can be used to provide ethernet to anything (computer, xbox, ps3 etc)


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

aaronwt said:


> With my DlinK DAp1522 Wireless Bridges/Access Points. Whether I use 2.4Ghz or 5Ghz N I get identical speeds to a wired connection. I have no problem getting 90mbs transfer rates between premieres using wireless N. The same as when it's connected to my wired network. Using PCs I have no problem getting close to 150mbs throughput with wireless N.
> 
> But I also have multiple DAP1522 units setup as Access Points that are optimally placed to guarantee i can always get very fast speeds anywhere I connect inside wirelessly.
> 
> Soon I'll begin my migration of the majority of my seventy network devices off my gigabit wired network to my wireless N network(2.4Gh and 5Ghz mostly 5Ghz). I'll keep my 30+ gigabit devices on my wired gigabit network and the slow 100mbs devices will be put on the wireless network using the wireless bridges. this will include all the Premieres.


maybe I didn't read something right, but why are you moving from wired to wireless if it's already wired?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

andrewl570 said:


> does the wireless n dongle work with the Tivo HD?


Yes, but the throughput on the TiVo HD is limited by its CPU.

From the FAQ sticky at the top of the forum:









Throughput on a 100Mbps wired ethernet network

Even if your wireless N network were capable of 50-60Mbps, you would still see about 20Mbps maximum, on average, with the TiVo HD.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Mike-Mike said:


> maybe I didn't read something right, but why are you moving from wired to wireless if it's already wired?


Because I have over seventy devices on my network and I want to get rid of some of the wires. And since I get the same speeds with wireless N with my 100mbs devices, I might as well move them.
Since I have several optimally placed Access points, I can always get maxmium transfer rates over wireless.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> Because I have over seventy devices on my network and I want to get rid of some of the wires. And since I get the same speeds with wireless N with my 100mbs devices, I might as well move them.
> Since I have several optimally placed Access points, I can always get maxmium transfer rates over wireless.


WOW over 70 things on your network, for me including my family's computers I have about 10 things on my network max. and I though that was a lot. I am humbled.
I am obviously missing out on the truly wired ethernet home, even my Vantage computer lighting and control system still uses a RS232 to my computer, I am sure ethernet is available today on that system.


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## funks (May 24, 2010)

I'm not sure if buying a Tivo Wireless N Adapter is such a good idea (especially if it's 89$).

For a home setup (client/bridge) - The NetGear WNDR3300 is fairly cheap (less than 100$ now), has two transmitters and supports DD-WRT. You can keep the first antenna at 5 GHZ strictly for Wireless-N (make sure it's set to Wireless Network Mode = "NA-Only", with a Channel Width="40 MHz").

With the newer NEWD-2 K2.6 builds - people are able to get 8 -> 9 MB/Second transfer rates out of it.


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## vansmack (Dec 1, 2003)

I'm barely getting 25mbps Premier to Premier with a wireless N adapter (trendnet) over 2.4ghz. Straight shot to a Linksys N router about 25 feet away, no walls.

I can watch TV fine, but can't ff any commercials - it's only slightly faster than real time playback.


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## rpgonzalez (May 18, 2010)

vansmack said:


> I'm barely getting 25mbps Premier to Premier with a wireless N adapter (trendnet) over 2.4ghz. Straight shot to a Linksys N router about 25 feet away, no walls.
> 
> I can watch TV fine, but can't ff any commercials - it's only slightly faster than real time playback.


If both premiers are using the wireless n, then the linksys might not like two way traffic like the airport express I have. Also, some routers I tested did better in n mode only as expected, however the belkin I just purchased likes the mixed mode better! I get about 10mbps more in mixed. If u live in an apartement building with alot of 2.4ghz interference, 5ghz might be for you. Also, the trendnet might like one mode over another. That's why I like the TiVo n adapter... It's already been "confirmed" to have high speeds


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

My Dlink DAP1522 units have high speeds. Wireless N transfer rates premiere to Premiere are identical to using a wired connection. 90mbs.


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> My Dlink DAP1522 units have high speeds. Wireless N transfer rates premiere to Premiere are identical to using a wired connection. 90mbs.


How are you measuring the transfer rates?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

epstewart said:


> How are you measuring the transfer rates?


I'm looking at the transfer speed history on the TiVo. Or if it's to/from a PC i can also use a throughput meter.
But the TiVo transfer history makes the most sense. Since it lists the most recent transfers since the last time the TiVo was restarted.

And it is broken down by transfers to another TiVo, transfers from another TiVo, Videos copied from a remote device, videos copied to a remote device, Video downloads, and Youtube video downloads.


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## MeStinkBAD (Jul 16, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> With my DlinK DAp1522 Wireless Bridges/Access Points. Whether I use 2.4Ghz or 5Ghz N I get identical speeds to a wired connection. I have no problem getting 90mbs transfer rates between premieres using wireless N. The same as when it's connected to my wired network. Using PCs I have no problem getting close to 150mbs throughput with wireless N.


To clarify... that's about 10-20MBps. Which are the same speeds reported by the OP.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

MeStinkBAD said:


> To clarify... that's about 10-20MBps. Which are the same speeds reported by the OP.


No the OP said "...Last router was a "nice" router. Netgear wireless-N 300. Two wireless N's in mixed mode was 39Mbps. Just like wired, with ultimate flexibility.."

39Mbs is around 5MBps.

I get 90mbs(or Mbs) which is 11.25MBs.

The TiVo only has a 100mbs ethernet connection. It is impossible for it to get 20MBps. 20MBps would be 160mbs which is not possible with the TiVo ethernet connection.

Ultimately the TiVo is slow since it is limited to a slow 100mbs connection. I've been running Gigabit Ethernet at home since 2001. Even in 2001 I got 500mbs throughput transfer rates between PCs. With my current PCs, I have no issue getting 900mbs+(112.5 MBs+) transfer rates between PCs.


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## MeStinkBAD (Jul 16, 2003)

rpgonzalez said:


> If both premiers are using the wireless n, then the linksys might not like two way traffic like the airport express I have. Also, some routers I tested did better in n mode only as expected, however the belkin I just purchased likes the mixed mode better! I get about 10mbps more in mixed. If u live in an apartement building with alot of 2.4ghz interference, 5ghz might be for you. Also, the trendnet might like one mode over another. That's why I like the TiVo n adapter... It's already been "confirmed" to have high speeds


You should get the dual-band airport extreme. It's fast and it's still I believe the best priced dual-band router you can find. It creates both b/g/n and a/n networks. And with you're existing express you can easily use that to extend your a/n network. Or better yet use it as the wireless bridge between the TiVo and the base station.

Make sure the base station is placed high up, preferably near the center of a room that's in the center of your house.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

MeStinkBAD said:


> You should get the dual-band airport extreme. It's fast and it's still I believe the best priced dual-band router you can find. It creates both b/g/n and a/n networks. And with you're existing express you can easily use that to extend your a/n network. Or better yet use it as the wireless bridge between the TiVo and the base station.
> 
> Make sure the base station is placed high up, preferably near the center of a room that's in the center of your house.


That is the only thing the DAp1522 is lacking. It can only access 2.4Ghz or 5Ghz at one timer. It can't access both frequencices concurrently.
As an Access point you need to choose either 2.4Ghz or 5GHz. As a wireless bridge, it will automatically access the other frequency if one goes down. I have my APs at 5Ghz. If it loses a connection with those, it will automatically connect to my routers wifi which I run at 2.4Ghz N. I have that one set up so it gives me 18+ hours during an outage. So my alarm system normally connects at 5Ghz N, but that AP won't last 18+ hours on it's UPS. So if I have a very long power outage I know my alarm system will still be covered since the wireless bridge it's on will switch oer to the 2.4GhzN.


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