# The West Wing "Requiem" 4/16/06



## Animgif (Jan 4, 2002)

I'm already tearing up and that was only the into.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I loved the way Bartlett led everyone out of the doldrums and began talking about the good times and good memories; that's exactly what should happen at such otherwise somber occasions.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

I totally lost it during the opening scene. Powerful, powerful stuff.


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## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

I feel/felt let down by the episode...

too much "real life" and not enough "Leo" stories/memories... *shrug*

I was really looking forward to a weep-fest...


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## cheerdude (Feb 27, 2001)

Ditto MK - I cried more with last week's episode than this one...


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## edc (Mar 24, 2002)

Mikkel_Knight said:


> I feel/felt let down by the episode...
> 
> too much "real life" and not enough "Leo" stories/memories... *shrug*
> 
> I was really looking forward to a weep-fest...


I think they got it right. Life goes on, especially in a place like Washington. The "speaker" storyline, J/D and CJ/Danny are all nice reminders of that.

Ainsley looking for a job was interesting.

Bartlet lightening the mood everywhere was well done. Nice bit of work (I'd say "acting," but much of it seemed genuine for John Spencer) from Sheen.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

what was up with Stockard Channing looking REALLY annoyed when Bartlett walked into the room and started ligtening up the mood?


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

I was also let down ... I kept waiting for even a photo of John Spencer/Leo McGarrey to be shown, and was disappointed not to see one. When an actor on a TV series passes away, most shows honor the actor with a placard "In Memoriam" at the end of the show, with a photo of the actor, and I was surprised not to see this done. I know that Martin Sheen broke from character and spoke about Spencer's passing on the first episode that aired immediately after Spencer's death, so now I'm wondering if that was supposed to be the "In Memoriam" segment. Or did I miss it somewhere in the intervening episodes? 

Another odd thing for me was during the opening scenes at the (assumed) Washington Cathedral, I felt like I was "celebrity" watching, you know: Oh, there's Bingo Bob, and Hoynes. Wow, Nancy McNally! Hey, there's Carol, CJ's former assistant - I miss seing her every week! And etc, etc. 

There was only one person shown whom I did not recognize, a blonde woman, and after seeing the credits I realized I hadn't spotted Marlee Matlin. Did she go blonde and put on some weight?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Gunnyman said:


> what was up with Stockard Channing looking REALLY annoyed when Bartlett walked into the room and started ligtening up the mood?


My best guess is she was worried that he would go on and on and use up a lot of energy. She's very concerned about his health situation.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Gunnyman said:


> what was up with Stockard Channing looking REALLY annoyed when Bartlett walked into the room and started ligtening up the mood?


I initially thought she was concerned that Jeb just lost his best friend and wasn't letting his emotions out, but when there was no follow-up, I just took it as her concern with his MS condition and she didn't want him to "over-do" anything. She even kicked out the "core" staff at 10:30.


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## USAFSSO (Aug 24, 2005)

It was a good episode. Yes, I was expecting a short nod to John Spencer, but they did dedicate an episode already. How do you acknowledge someone four months after the death that happened during the season run? Now what will be a time to show his work will be when they do the series final retrospective episode. 

As for how the show was, it looks like it could have been a good season if not for this being the last. Santos lining up good people for the new West Wing...


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Nice touch with the president as pallbearer. But it seemed a bit risky and unrealistic with his MS...


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

USAFSSO said:


> It was a good episode. Yes, I was expecting a short nod to John Spencer, but they did dedicate an episode already.


I don't recall any specific episode that was dedicated to John Spencer, but before the start of the first episode after Spencer's death, Martin Sheen did say something along the lines of "We have lost a dear friend and he would want the show to go on." (Yes, liberally paraphrased.) Is this the dedication to John Spencer that you're talking about? I'm really hoping that was NOT the final remembrance this show will have for the actor.


USAFSSO said:


> How do you acknowledge someone four months after the death that happened during the season run?


In the early 80's, the show Dallas waited until almost the end of the season to acknowledge the passing of actor Jim Davis, who died very near the start of the season (or maybe even before). Even though it was public knowledge that Jim Davis passed, the show waited most of the season to "kill off" his character, Jock. They timed the memoriam to Jim Davis to coincide with "Jock's death". So there is some precedent for acknowledging an actor's passing well after the actual event.


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## mike_k (Sep 20, 2005)

drew2k said:


> There was only one person shown whom I did not recognize, a blonde woman, and after seeing the credits I realized I hadn't spotted Marlee Matlin. Did she go blonde and put on some weight?


I think they showed her twice - but at least once for sure. She hasn't gone blond.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

I see that the whole gang was there. Bookbag and the other daughters, Hoynes and even Ainsley. Mary-Louise Parker had several scenes.

I was concerned that they would try to omit Stockard Channing from the ep, since she's no longer actually in the cast. And it wouldn't have felt right without her.

I had heard that they also shot an honor guard ceremony at Arlington, but for some reason didn't use it.

A decent episode, all things considered.

Bob


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## efilippi (Jul 24, 2001)

The Rob Lowe character was notably absent.

Josh and Danny quietly moping about missing out on their evenings 'fun activities' was a hoot.


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## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

Gunnyman said:


> what was up with Stockard Channing looking REALLY annoyed when Bartlett walked into the room and started ligtening up the mood?


I didn't read it as annoyed, I read it as sad. Sad that her husband needs to be "the rock" and cheer everyone else up when, in fact, there's not anybody there that knew Leo as long as he did. He was the one needing to lean on someone else, but he couldn't 'cause he was too busy being everybody elses rock.


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## jgickler (Apr 7, 2000)

Who was the 6th pall bearer? 

I recognized Josh, Santos, Bartlett, Charlie, DNC chair. Who was the other guy?


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

efilippi said:


> Josh and Danny quietly moping about missing out on their evenings 'fun activities' was a hoot.


I thought that was hilarious. Both in the same situation caused by the other person but unable to talk about it. Classic.

Overall I thought it was a very well done episode. Reminded me of older episodes but I suppose that was because of all the appearances by old cast members.

I actually thought once or twice just what the Santos White House would be like....


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## barrettd (Jun 14, 2003)

jgickler said:


> Who was the 6th pall bearer?
> 
> I recognized Josh, Santos, Bartlett, Charlie, DNC chair. Who was the other guy?


I wondered that, too, but I think it was Leo's son-in-law. I didn't go back and rewatch, but I think he was the man sitting next to Mallory.


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

barrettd said:


> I wondered that, too, but I think it was Leo's son-in-law. I didn't go back and rewatch, but I think he was the man sitting next to Mallory.


Yes, it was.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Why don't I remember Mallory getting married?


Anyway, does someone have a complete run down of all the faces we saw? I know we saw lots of faces at the funeral service. But not everyone had dialog. I thought it was nice to see old faces actually have some dialog. (like Ainsley and Amy)


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> Why don't I remember Mallory getting married?


I don't know, but I don't remember that either.


> Anyway, does someone have a complete run down of all the faces we saw? I know we saw lots of faces at the funeral service. But not everyone had dialog. I thought it was nice to see old faces actually have some dialog. (like Ainsley and Amy)


I kept rewinding trying to recognize who everyone was. I think I should have watched the earlier seasons more times, since I couldn't recognize some of them.


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## JustAllie (Jan 5, 2002)

efilippi said:


> The Rob Lowe character was notably absent.


Yeah, I expected to see Sam Seaborne at the funeral.



Spoiler



But apparently we'll get to see him next week. Woo hoo! I miss Sam.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

JustAllie said:


> Yeah, I expected to see Sam Seaborne at the funeral.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I did too. But I suspect we didn't see him because...



Spoiler



he'll be feautred in a more prominent way in an upcoming epsiode. It would have been "odd" to *see* Sam at the funeral, but without him having much, if any, dialog. But yes, it will be nice to see him. I liked Sam.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

efilippi said:


> The Rob Lowe character was notably absent.
> 
> Josh and Danny quietly moping about missing out on their evenings 'fun activities' was a hoot.


I thought I read he was filmed in the funeral scene. Maybe he was edited out?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I liked the episode overall, but knowing that the series is ending really makes the transition storylines pretty hollow. Why do we care who ends up being speaker, whether Santos interferes, and what his first proposed bill out of the gate will be? It's interesting to see former characters get places or consideration in the new administration, since we care about those characters, but I thought the amount of time they spent on the speaker race was totally unnecessary. That's only interesting if we're going to see another season and see how Santos interacts with the Congress.



drew2k said:


> I don't recall any specific episode that was dedicated to John Spencer, but before the start of the first episode after Spencer's death, Martin Sheen did say something along the lines of "We have lost a dear friend and he would want the show to go on." (Yes, liberally paraphrased.) Is this the dedication to John Spencer that you're talking about? I'm really hoping that was NOT the final remembrance this show will have for the actor.


I'm pretty sure there was an "In Memoriam" placard at the end of the first new ep that aired after John Spencer's death.


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## Snappa77 (Feb 14, 2004)

Good ep. Great scene with Bartlett bringing everyones spirit up.



I would've loved to see a full season of the Santos Administration. I wish they would extend the series. I love this show. Still watch reruns on Bravo.


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## Mr2sday (Jul 8, 2005)

I think the blonde that wasn't recognized was a little heavier Ainsley.

I love this show, but I think it's better that it's ending. The first several seasons were light and not as episodic. That helped us get indeared to the characters. Now they have all this heavy stuff to deal with. It just wouldn't have the same magic. I much prefer the first 3 seasons to the later seasons.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Is it possible that the scene near the end of the episode where they are all talking about how Leo liked to tell tall tales (like saying he was a minor league baseball player) really was about tall tales that John Spencer actually told? I certainly don't remember Leo actually telling any of the "tales" in an episode, and it struck me that that would be a great way to really have a tribute to John Spencer in the episode without having anybody get out of character.

Since Spencer's death, I have made a point of watching intros and extros of the show to look for memorial messages to Spencer - I haven't seen any other than the spoken message by Martin Sheen.

And as long as we're bringing back old characters, I want Winnie!!!


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

jsmeeker said:


> Why don't I remember Mallory getting married?


I think once Sam left the show there was little to bring her into the storyline. She was dating a hockey player when last we left her I believe.


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## Carfan (Aug 9, 2003)

Did anyone else think that Josh was bidding good by to the White House as he walked away in the closing scenes? At the time, he is unaware that Santos heeded his advice on the Speaker issue and likely felt unappreciated.

He certainly looked tearful and forlorn, not because of the passing of Leo, but the opportunity he thinks slipped away.

Your take?


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## barrettd (Jun 14, 2003)

Carfan said:


> Did anyone else think that Josh was bidding good by to the White House as he walked away in the closing scenes? At the time, he is unaware that Santos heeded his advice on the Speaker issue and likely felt unappreciated.
> 
> He certainly looked tearful and forlorn, not because of the passing of Leo, but the opportunity he thinks slipped away.
> 
> Your take?


I took it as Josh looking at the White House in a different way now that he is Chief of Staff for Santos. Kind of like he was contemplating the challenges that were ahead now that Bartlett had anointed him as the future of the party.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Carfan said:


> Did anyone else think that Josh was bidding good by to the White House as he walked away in the closing scenes? At the time, he is unaware that Santos heeded his advice on the Speaker issue and likely felt unappreciated.
> 
> He certainly looked tearful and forlorn, not because of the passing of Leo, but the opportunity he thinks slipped away.
> 
> Your take?


Nope. He knows his new role. He discussed the whole speaker thing with the President. It's President Elect Santos that has to understand what Josh's role is.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Carfan said:


> Did anyone else think that Josh was bidding good by to the White House as he walked away in the closing scenes? At the time, he is unaware that Santos heeded his advice on the Speaker issue and likely felt unappreciated.
> 
> He certainly looked tearful and forlorn, not because of the passing of Leo, but the opportunity he thinks slipped away.
> 
> Your take?


No way Josh (or anyone) lets a job like Chief of Staff to POTUS get away because of a small disagreement or a temporary feeling of being unappreciated. I didn't view it at all as a goodbye. I think barrettd's assessment is more of the feeling they were going for.

That and the fact that he was pissed that the White House screwed up his plans for a night of fun with Donna.


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## edc (Mar 24, 2002)

Carfan said:


> Did anyone else think that Josh was bidding good by to the White House as he walked away in the closing scenes?


I think you are reading some of Bradley Whitford into Josh 

That scene was among the last he filmed in Washington, and was probably his goodbye to the actual White House.


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

Carfan said:


> Did anyone else think that Josh was bidding good by to the White House as he walked away in the closing scenes? At the time, he is unaware that Santos heeded his advice on the Speaker issue and likely felt unappreciated.


It felt a little like the next generation looking at the house/business/farm they're going to take over after their parents are gone. Leo passed, Bartlet is on his way out... they're the 'adults' now.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

jschuur said:


> It felt a little like the next generation looking at the house/business/farm they're going to take over after their parents are gone. Leo passed, Bartlet is on his way out... they're the 'adults' now.


Even if Leo had not died and Santos had still won, Josh still would have had the same, prominent role as Chief of Staff.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> Even if Leo had not died and Santos had still won, Josh still would have had the same, prominent role as Chief of Staff.


True, but the passing of Leo makes the "changing of the guard" feeling that much more profound.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

devdogaz said:


> True, but the passing of Leo makes the "changing of the guard" feeling that much more profound.


It does. Josh won't have Leo around to help guide him. Leo certainly was a major factor in Josh's rise, but I think Josh did a lot of it on his own, too.


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## cthomp (Dec 24, 2001)

drew2k said:


> There was only one person shown whom I did not recognize, a blonde woman, and after seeing the credits I realized I hadn't spotted Marlee Matlin. Did she go blonde and put on some weight?


Two for me. The first one between shot of Nancy McNally and POTUS & FLOTUS, and the second one the blond between Ainsley and Toby & Andy. I take that back, wasn't the blond Nancy, POTUS's secretary? Look for Marlee Matlin when they are taking the coffin out.


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

I'm not sure we were _supposed_ to recognize everyone they showed during the funeral. Maybe there were just mixing a couple of un-knowns in with the characters we would remember.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

modnar said:


> I'm not sure we were _supposed_ to recognize everyone they showed during the funeral. Maybe there were just mixing a couple of un-knowns in with the characters we would remember.


maybe. But I think I ID'ed pretty much everyone they actually stopped and focused on. T hey clearly were attempting to show many familiar faces, including ones we had not seen in some time.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> maybe. But I think I ID'ed pretty much everyone they actually stopped and focused on. T hey clearly were attempting to show many familiar faces, including ones we had not seen in some time.


I agree - I think we were definitely supposed to know who all of the individuals were. It's funny, when you step back for a minute and think of all of those close-ups, can you imagine how long it took to film the cathedral scenes??? I'm sure those extras had some tired bums from sitting for a looooooong time!


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

I may have to go back and rewatch that. I thought I recognized everyone we were supposed to. There were a couple people they stopped on just very briefly that I didn't recognize, though.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

modnar said:


> I may have to go back and rewatch that. I thought I recognized everyone we were supposed to. There were a couple people they stopped on just very briefly that I didn't recognize, though.


I re-watched it tonight (just that scene). I didn't see Joey Lucas. But I understand she was there. There was also some woman I saw who I thought I should recognize, but didn't. Maybe it was Leo's ex-wife? There were also two young kids. Who were they? President's grandkids? Did Leo have another child other than Mallory (I easily recognized her)


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## barrettd (Jun 14, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> I re-watched it tonight (just that scene). I didn't see Joey Lucas. But I understand she was there. There was also some woman I saw who I thought I should recognize, but didn't. Maybe it was Leo's ex-wife? There were also two young kids. Who were they? President's grandkids? Did Leo have another child other than Mallory (I easily recognized her)


I thought the two kids might be Toby's kids, but that's only because I couldn't think of another set of young children.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> I re-watched it tonight (just that scene). I didn't see Joey Lucas. But I understand she was there. There was also some woman I saw who I thought I should recognize, but didn't. Maybe it was Leo's ex-wife? There were also two young kids. Who were they? President's grandkids? Did Leo have another child other than Mallory (I easily recognized her)


Joey was definitely there. Weren't the kids sitting with POTUS's daughters?


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## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

Mr2sday said:


> I think the blonde that wasn't recognized was a little heavier Ainsley.


Um, no...

Ainsley was quite recognizable - she had a conversation with CJ looking for a job...


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## edc (Mar 24, 2002)

cthomp said:


> Two for me. The first one between shot of Nancy McNally and POTUS & FLOTUS


Sara Botsford as Jenny McGarry. I believe she only appeared in the series once, way back in the first season, "Five Votes Down."


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

barrettd said:


> I thought the two kids might be Toby's kids, but that's only because I couldn't think of another set of young children.


No..These kids were too old to be Toby's kids. I do believe they were near one of th President's daughters, so that's why I guessed they were his grandkids.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

edc said:


> Sara Botsford as Jenny McGarry. I believe she only appeared in the series once, way back in the first season, "Five Votes Down."


Is that his ex-wife? If so, wasn't she also his laywer during the whole Predidential MS congressional investigation?


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## Carfan (Aug 9, 2003)

Regarding Josh's demeanor as he walked away, I can see what you folks are saying, it probably is the magnitude of what he is undertaking that made him reflective/pensive.

I was really keying on the exchanges with POTUS-elect and Josh and the tears that seemed to be welling up as he looked back. 

There was sure enough emotion in that day and turn of events to have anyone run the gamut from ecstatic to overwhelmed!


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

In the wide shot of the crowd at the funeral from over the preacher's shoulder, did it strike anyone else like the rear half of the cathedral was CGI? Like they shot it in a smaller space and just added the back half in post?

Speaking of that preacher. Was he the Pope? That was a biiiiig hat. 

Yeah, Sam's absence was pretty conspicuous. Especially since they were having the mousketeer roll-call during the service.

Was the DNC chair close to Leo? Or is being the VP-elect's pallbearer just a perk of the office?

Poor Toby in the back of the church. They stuck him back in the CGI section. 

I realize that "life goes on" and all, but it struck me as slightly unseemly of C.J. to be taking time during the wake to schedule a booty call.

I have a bad feeling that this Josh/Donna thing is headed for a major crash and burn.

Yikes! What the hell happened to Ainsley? I guess once being a Republican completely erodes your soul, it starts working on the outside too.    RELAX! I'm just funnin'


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

busyba said:


> Yikes! What the hell happened to Ainsley? I guess once being a Republican completely erodes your soul, it starts working on the outside too.    RELAX! I'm just funnin'


Has nothing to do with being a Republican and everything to do with having to deal with Horatio Caine on a daily basis.


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## edc (Mar 24, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> Is that his ex-wife? If so, wasn't she also his laywer during the whole Predidential MS congressional investigation?


That is Leo McGarry's ex-wife.

Leo's lawyer (and girlfriend for a time) was Jordan Kendall, as played by Joanna Gleason. She did not appear on-screen at the funeral.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

ahh... I really thought his lawyer (Jordan) WAS his ex-wife. It was obvious that they had a previous relationship, and knowing Leo was divorced, I figured that's who she was.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

So, aim I the only one who thinks that Santos is really sandbagging on the whole VP thing? I keep wondering if he plans to ask Josh...... Josh being typically clueless about things close to him ( see Moss, Donna) would never see it coming and the discussion about candidates he considers unsuitable could just be a smokescreen. Hmmmm


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> So, am I the only one who thinks that Santos is really sandbagging on the whole VP thing?


Yes.


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## Hersheytx (Feb 15, 2003)

Anyone else feel that if the show was not cancelled they would have an all star lineup. Each show to the end is setting up characters for the next show. Even though there is no show. 
I just feel so depressed seeing all these wonderful characters being asked to take positions in the next administration but knowing it is all just a ruse.

What are the ratings for the last few weeks for WW? Should we start the letter campaign?? I know Martin Sheen was a good President, but he was not the show. And the new administration looks even better then the last.

Oh well.....guess I will get all the DVDs so I can relive the good days of yesteryear.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Wow - I watched this last night and cried. I will miss this show so much. 

I thought it was so sad that Toby could not be a pallbearer - he was very close to Leo, and under other circumstances would have been.

I thing the whole thing with the First Lady and POTUS was that she knew how upset he was - this was his oldest friend - and I think she understood that as long as he had those other people around him, he would not really be able to mourn. I think as his wife she understood that he needed the time alone to really deal with what he was feeling. She knew he was trying to avoid the inevitable, and felt that he needed to deal with it privately.
That was my take, anyway (perhaps a more "female" POV here!).


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## Chapper1 (Jan 2, 2004)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> So, aim I the only one who thinks that Santos is really sandbagging on the whole VP thing? I keep wondering if he plans to ask Josh...... Josh being typically clueless about things close to him ( see Moss, Donna) would never see it coming and the discussion about candidates he considers unsuitable could just be a smokescreen. Hmmmm


I had that exact same feeling by the end of the episode...


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

I thought it was totally cool of Charlie to offer to walk out with Toby. And classic Charlie....


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Hersheytx said:


> Anyone else feel that if the show was not cancelled they would have an all star lineup. Each show to the end is setting up characters for the next show. Even though there is no show.
> I just feel so depressed seeing all these wonderful characters being asked to take positions in the next administration but knowing it is all just a ruse.
> 
> What are the ratings for the last few weeks for WW? Should we start the letter campaign?? I know Martin Sheen was a good President, but he was not the show. And the new administration looks even better then the last.
> ...


Yeah. The show could have continued and still been good no matter who won the election. Obviously, since they decided to have Santos win, you would be able to retain a lot of the familair people. But even with Vinick winning, I think they would have done a good job.

As you point out, Martin Sheen wasn't the show. Intially, the role of the President was supposed to be fairly minor and it was to focus on the West Wing staff. (with particular emphasis on Deputy Communication Director Sam Seaborn). However, they quickly decided to give the President a larger role. Personally, I think it turned out to be a good idea. It worked very well. (although it may have lead to Rob Lowe leaving the show, which was unfortuante. He was really good)


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## edc (Mar 24, 2002)

cthomp said:


> and the second one the blond between Ainsley and Toby & Andy.


The consensus seems to be that was another one-timer, Leo's sister Josephine ("Shibboleth"), as portrayed by Deborah Hedwall.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

edc said:


> The consensus seems to be that was another one-timer, Leo's sister Josephine ("Shibboleth"), as portrayed by Deborah Hedwall.


Glad you identified her. I had no clue who this woman was!

Has anyone positively identified where/when Marlee Matlin was shown?

PS. When I saw the three Bartlett daughters in the front row, when I look at the younges, I no longer "see" Zoey Bartlett ... instead, I now see the psycho hybrid from _Invasion_!


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

drew2k said:


> when I look at the younges, I no longer "see" Zoey Bartlett ... instead, I now see the psycho hybrid from _Invasion_!


I see a girl with really bad migranes who was a nanny that shook a baby to death.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

drew2k said:


> Has anyone positively identified where/when Marlee Matlin was shown?


I can look when I get home tonight and tell you the exact time, but it should be pretty obvious if you still have it on your TiVo. IIRC, she was sitting on the aisle, and she got a close up during the scene when the pall bearers are carrying out the casket.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

devdogaz said:


> I can look when I get home tonight and tell you the exact time, but it should be pretty obvious if you still have it on your TiVo. IIRC, she was sitting on the aisle, and she got a close up during the scene when the pall bearers are carrying out the casket.


Thanks - you were right! I replayed that scene and found her around the 6 minute mark. She was on-screen for maybe 3 seconds, so I must have looked away the first time.

There are many actors who turned out for this episode who ended up with only a few seconds of screen time, and I'm guessing these actors were aware of their limited role before they showed up for filming. I don't know if they were paid for their time, but I'm guessing they all showed up because they must have really liked John Spencer, and this was their way to pay tribute to him.


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## joeinma (Jan 11, 2002)

busyba said:


> Speaking of that preacher. Was he the Pope? That was a biiiiig hat.


No, not the Pope. More like the Archbishop or Cardinal Archbishop of Washington. both are the same person...an Archbishop can picked to become a Cardinal by the Pope. The Cardinals can then be elected Pope. http://www.heartsaflame.org.nz/?sid=32


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

With the exception of the NY Times article, all the spoiler type leaks had Santos winning.

The network/producers wanted a younger (than Sheen) actor to portray the president. They were hoping to attract a younger audience and Alda doesn't fit. Santos would also give them an opportunity to include, or exclude, as many of the other regulars that they wanted to.



jsmeeker said:


> Yeah. The show could have continued and still been good no matter who won the election. Obviously, since they decided to have Santos win, you would be able to retain a lot of the familair people. But even with Vinick winning, I think they would have done a good job.


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## Denise_Z (Apr 3, 2006)

lew said:


> With the exception of the NY Times article, all the spoiler type leaks had Santos winning.
> 
> The network/producers wanted a younger (than Sheen) actor to portray the president. They were hoping to attract a younger audience and Alda doesn't fit. Santos would also give them an opportunity to include, or exclude, as many of the other regulars that they wanted to.


I for one never seriously believed (despite the Times article) that the plan ever called for anyone but Santos to win. If the original plan called for Vinick to win, it just seems to me that both Jimmy Smits and Alan Alda would have gotten somewhere close to equal air time, which didn't happen. I'll bet Smits received at least 5 times the air time that Alda did. There were some episodes that Alda wasn't even and in where Smits was on camera for like half the show or more.

Also, it did seem like they were obviously trying create a scenerio whereby a good portion of the original cast could come back next season by joining the Santos administration. That of course sort of flies in the face of what would happen in real life where in the change of administrations this just would not happen even if both the old and new presidents were from the same party. About the only time that you would see anyhing like that would be when a president would be sucseeded by his own VP, but that would not be the case here.

Of course the show hasn't exactly modeled itself after reality so I guess it wouldn't have been that sutprising. Don't get me wrong, I love the show but sometimes their separture from how most White Houses run in real life astounds me. One example is the power to which Leo and now CJ have had in their roles as chief of staff. Sometimes I kind of wonder why Bartlet even bothered to appoint a secretary of state because all his duties seem be covered by the C of C. Another example would be the total blurring of lines (actualy the lack of lines) in responisbilities among the staff members. Back in the days when Josh, Toby and Sam were all staff members ir was mighty hard to really make out what their actual jobs were. One week they would all be working on forgien policy things and the next week it would be domestic policy. During the season Bartlet was running for re-election they could even be found working on the campaign. In real life this just wouldn't happen. I was glad to see National Security Advisor Nancy MacNally attending Leo's funeral because I thought she had dissapeard off the face of the earth. In the last 15 or so episodes they have come close to having World War III break out what, at least twice and yet the National Security Advisor is no where to be seen, leaving everything to her deputy? BTW, does anyone have the slightest idea who the secretary of state or say the attourney general is in the Bartlet adminsitration?

Well, I guess I have that off my chest now! lol

Despite what I said above, I am really going to miss the show.


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## edc (Mar 24, 2002)

Denise_Z said:


> I for one never seriously believed (despite the Times article) that the plan ever called for anyone but Santos to win. If the original plan called for Vinick to win, it just seems to me that both Jimmy Smits and Alan Alda would have gotten somewhere close to equal air time, which didn't happen.
> 
> BTW, does anyone have the slightest idea who the secretary of state or say the attourney general is in the Bartlet adminsitration?


(1) I think the "Vinick wins" plan was only in place for a month or two (October-November).

(2) Louis Berryhill (William Devane) was the secretary of state.

(3) Bartlet's AG has changed at least three times over the course of the series. The most recent one we've seen is Alan Fisk (Dylan Baker) in the fifth season episode "Abu El Banat."


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

edc said:


> (2) Louis Berryhill (William Devane) was the secretary of state.


I thought he was the Secretary of Defense.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

devdogaz said:


> I thought he was the Secretary of Defense.


I thought he was the President (with Ronnie Cox as VP)


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Actually, didn't he also play JFK at some point? That Billy Devane, he's an entire administration onto himself!


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## edc (Mar 24, 2002)

Devane played JFK in a TVMovie. Martin Sheen played JFK in a miniseries. 

I wonder if that ever came came up. 
"Dueling Kennedys" in the Bartlet White House 

Incidentally, Martin Sheen is also playing a character named "Jack" in next year's film of the Bobby Kennedy assasination.


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## Denise_Z (Apr 3, 2006)

Ah Ha! See what I mean! The sect'ry of state and AG are on so little that there doesn't seem to any concences as to who played them


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## EchoBravo (Apr 20, 2002)

> *before the start of the first episode after Spencer's death, Martin Sheen did say something along the lines of "We have lost a dear friend and he would want the show to go on." (Yes, liberally paraphrased.) *


I sure as heck missed that. Just which episode did Sheen's message precede? I know I haven't missed any episodes, but it's very likely that part got clipped. I'd like to catch it in rerun (if they rerun that part).


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## edc (Mar 24, 2002)

Denise_Z said:


> Ah Ha! See what I mean! The sect'ry of state and AG are on so little that there doesn't seem to any concences as to who played them


Neither are characters we have seen frequently, but there is plenty of "consensus" as to both the character names, and the actor(s) that portrayed them.


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## edc (Mar 24, 2002)

After all that, they made a point of throwing in more than a couple lines of dialogue about Santos' choice for Attorney General.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

EchoBravo said:


> [/b]I sure as heck missed that. Just which episode did Sheen's message precede? I know I haven't missed any episodes, but it's very likely that part got clipped. I'd like to catch it in rerun (if they rerun that part).


It was the episode about the VP debates.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Denise_Z said:


> Ah Ha! See what I mean! The sect'ry of state and AG are on so little that there doesn't seem to any concences as to who played them


You've been zoomed.

People weren't debating who played the SecState. We were simply mentioning all the other governmental roles that William Devane had played on other shows/movies.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> So, aim I the only one who thinks that Santos is really sandbagging on the whole VP thing?


josh would be a horrible choice...he actually knows how to get things done and should be chief of staff

Can't believe no one mentioned the 'more like a celebration' line that was obviously interjected over and over and over again for us. really was annoying.


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## ricercar (Sep 3, 2002)

Gunnyman said:


> what was up with Stockard Channing looking REALLY annoyed when Bartlett walked into the room and started ligtening up the mood?





Mikkel_Knight said:


> I didn't read it as annoyed, I read it as sad. Sad that her husband ... was the one needing to lean on someone else, but he couldn't 'cause he was too busy being everybody elses rock.


I agree. This explanation seemed obvious to me, and had me in tears.


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