# The Orville: New Horizons S3 Thread - Spoilers



## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Going to go ahead and create a full season thread.

WOW, the new season definitely started out with an extremely dark and heavy episode. Anger, guilt, suicide! I fully expected Isaac to be gone from the show after he killed himself. 

The only light moment was when Gordon was piloting the new shuttle and the new ensign was piloting the drones. 

Also, this episode was way longer than previous episodes. Over 1 hour (without commericals).


----------



## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

Since they are streaming, I noticed they threw in one bull sh*t. Norm Macdonald is still the voice of that blob character. I don't know how many episodes were completed before he died.


----------



## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

It looks like they finished shooting this season last August and Norm passed away in September.


----------



## rpj22 (Mar 27, 2016)

TriBruin said:


> Also, this episode was way longer than previous episodes. Over 1 hour (without commericals).


When shows go from broadcast to streaming, the writers and directors often comment that they enjoy the freedom to use whatever time they need to tell their story, be it 45 minutes or 75 minutes, rather than force the procrustean fit into a network time slot. I thought these guys went a little overboard with their newfound freedom, however. They could have cut plenty out of that episode without harming it any.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

TriBruin said:


> I fully expected Isaac to be gone from the show after he killed himself.


Me too. I rewatched all of S01 and S02 during the last week and I had been thinking to myself that one thing they hadn't taken from TNG is having a main character die. Then Isaac went and killed himself and I thought, well: there they go...

I am a little unclear why they did so many upgrades to the sets/costumes. Even Isaac looks slightly different, which makes no in-universe sense...

Old:










New:


----------



## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

I was a little surprised they didn't put up the suicide hotline phone number at the end of the episode -- seems like most shows do that when they involve a suicide.


----------



## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

Where was Bortus? He's my favorite! 
P.S. I noticed Isaac's glowup too!


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Regina said:


> Where was Bortus? He's my favorite!
> P.S. I noticed Isaac's glowup too!


He was there on the bridge, I had like one line though.


----------



## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Amnesia said:


> Me too. I rewatched all of S01 and S02 during the last week and I had been thinking to myself that one thing they hadn't taken from TNG is having a main character die. Then Isaac went and killed himself and I thought, well: there they go...
> 
> I am a little unclear why they did so many upgrades to the sets/costumes. Even Isaac looks slightly different, which makes no in-universe sense...
> 
> ...


Two Words: Increased Budget. That said, I enjoyed this episode. It was more of what I'd been looking for from this show. I'm sure some of the raunchiness will come back, but I hope not, or at least in very small doses.

This was an interesting episode and darker than I expected. I loved the idea of (as I did in Strange New Worlds and Babylon 5 before any of those) of diving into a gas giant planet to get rid of an enemy ship persuing our heroes. At this rate it's going to become a trope if it's not one already. 

I was glad to see the disension among the crew regarding Issac and hope it continues throughout the season.


----------



## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

Watched the first episode of S3. I hope they go back to adding some humor into this show, that's what I liked about it.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

getbak said:


> It looks like they finished shooting this season last August and Norm passed away in September.


I heard McFarlane confirm that McDonald had recorded all his lines for this season before he passed.


Lots of Starship Porn in this episode.
Also, was I the only one who thought that it was incredibly reckless for them to be holding the Pteradon's combat test in the middle of the Orbital Shipyard?

That said, I agree that this episode took a dark turn with Isaac committing suicide.

Not sure what role Burke is supposed to filing her though, even if Anne Winters is now a series regular.


----------



## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

JYoung said:


> I heard McFarlane confirm that McDonald had recorded all his lines for this season before he passed.
> 
> 
> Lots of Starship Porn in this episode.
> ...


No, you weren't the only one who thought the Pteradon testing should've occured in a less crowded enviroment. I was thinking teh same thing.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

I was thinking same, then I was thinking maybe at least the weapons were not real, but then the drones blew up.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Craigbob said:


> No, you weren't the only one who thought the Pteradon testing should've occured in a less crowded enviroment. I was thinking teh same thing.


Well, it's not like Malloy has ever sheared off a docking bay door before.


----------



## gouryg2 (7 mo ago)

I guess that they thought that Gordon was the best choice to test pilot the new starfighter seeing how in combat situations he has flown the Orville a starfighter. It definitely was a darker than usual episode. I was surprised that they didn't put up the suicide prevention psa at the end of the credits. Ensign Burke is the new navigator seeing how Lamarr got promoted to chief engineer. As for Burke's distain for Issac, I think it will eventually diminish once she sees that he is much more than the sum of his parts and how many members of the crew consider him as part of the larger family that comprises the crew. It should be interesting to see if they try to adapt some of the recovered Kalon technology to the fleet.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I really wish space operas like this would stop trying to make us believe that ships in outer space can fly like a plane inside of an atmosphere. The Expanse is one of the few Sci-Fi shows that are even close to reality when it comes to space flight. Everything from Star Wars to Star Trek totally defy Newton's laws. Granted, it's much less entertaining, but it's just absolutely ridiculous to think spaceships can actually fly like that in a vacuum.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

I don't think it's a question of whether spaceships *could *fly like that---with antigravity and whatever they're using for thrusters, I don't see any reason to believe that they couldn't fly any way they wanted. The real thing, IMO, it that they don't *need *to fly the same way that atmospheric craft do.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

And yet NASA, in its early days, selected fighter and test pilots to basically sit like a rock in a projectile capsule.


----------



## retrodog (Feb 7, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> I really wish space operas like this would stop trying to make us believe that ships in outer space can fly like a plane inside of an atmosphere. The Expanse is one of the few Sci-Fi shows that are even close to reality when it comes to space flight. Everything from Star Wars to Star Trek totally defy Newton's laws. Granted, it's much less entertaining, but it's just absolutely ridiculous to think spaceships can actually fly like that in a vacuum.


Target demographic is the only thing that matters. The general public wants to see things fly like an aircraft, not a technically accurate depiction of a space craft.


----------



## rpj22 (Mar 27, 2016)

retrodog said:


> Target demographic is the only thing that matters. The general public wants to see things fly like an aircraft, not a technically accurate depiction of a space craft.


Keep in mind also that some writers learned everything they _think_ they know about science from watching previous Sci-Fi shows. Combine that with directors routinely ignoring any advice they get on technology and it's a miracle when anything changes.


----------



## retrodog (Feb 7, 2002)

rpj22 said:


> Keep in mind also that some writers learned everything they _think_ they know about science from watching previous Sci-Fi shows. Combine that with directors routinely ignoring any advice they get on technology and it's a miracle when anything changes.


Perhaps, but let's face it... space flight is boring as he!!, from an entertainment perspective. The Orville is not the type of show that is going to pioneer anything technical, especially if it's boring. They only show us things flying around in space to remind us that they are flying around in space.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

It's a Seth McFarlane show.
Are you really expecting scientific accuracy?


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

JYoung said:


> It's a Seth McFarlane show.
> Are you really expecting scientific accuracy?


We have a better chance of seeing Bortus' annual pee floating in space.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

retrodog said:


> Target demographic is the only thing that matters. The general public wants to see things fly like an aircraft, not a technically accurate depiction of a space craft.


There's something I remember from an old sci-fi documentary in the 80s that used old Flash Gordon serials as a reference for what they were saying: that the audience expects certain sounds when things happen onscreen. At the time nobody knew what a spaceship landing sounded like, but they DID know the sound that something big and heavy dropped into dirt sounded like, so that's the sound effect that was used when the spaceship landed. And something exploding makes an explosion sound, so even if the explosion onscreen was happening in space, the audience is expecting an explosion sound. 

They extrapolated that further and said that now you would have a more realistic sound for a rocket taking off, not because of technology, but because audiences now know what a rocket taking off sounds like. And in the future when rockets taking off sound differently, we'll look back on the sci-fi show as being quaint for using that sound.


----------



## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

I'm not sure how I feel about this second episode. It was decent but it looks like lots of crew were 'dead'.


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

NJChris said:


> I'm not sure how I feel about this second episode. It was decent but it looks like lots of crew were 'dead'.


I found it to be just 'ok'. Part of the reason, is I went back and rewatched the first two seasons when season 3 started. And I find I really, really enjoyed (and miss) a lot of a sillier humor they worked into the show at first, and then tuned down. We seem to have lost that. We've gone full humorless serious sci fi, and when it's _really good_ sci fi (as it has been off an on), it works out. But the silly humor helped to fill in the gaps and gave the show an extra aspect of entertainment. I hope it comes back. I know that some people thought it was "too much", but I feel it was "just right". 

"We need no longer fear the bananna!"


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

This was a much darker episode than I'm used to seeing with this show. I think Seth McFarlane is trying to take this show down a more serious path than before. Maybe he's looking to attract a different audience now that the show has split from Fox. He clearly setup future episodes with a new nemesis. This is like his version of the Borg, but instead of surgically altering you and making you a member of their collective, they just barf on you and turn you into the Fly.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

mr.unnatural said:


> Maybe [McFarlane is] looking to attract a different audience now that the show has split from Fox. He clearly setup future episodes with a new nemesis.


I don't know. Everything I've read suggests that this will be the last season of the show: both McFarlane and Grimes are working on McFarlane's new show Ted and none of the cast had their contracts renewed.

As for the "new nemesis", it seems that this enemy is located on the far side of Krill space. It doesn't seem like the Union would normally have a lot of interaction with them.


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

I miss the humor. I still like the show, but it's not quite the same. I'm also bummed that this might be its last season.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I also miss the humor. I thought the episode about the Krill religion was one of the better ones because of the humor. 

“We try harder", a prayer to Avis.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

trainman said:


> I was a little surprised they didn't put up the suicide hotline phone number at the end of the episode -- seems like most shows do that when they involve a suicide.


i was surprised at that as well. Also, I expected that he would be brought back to life (with a “backup”).


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

“What is that thing?”
”I don’t know, but lets go in”
”Wait….. let’s bring the Admiral, Chief Engineer and Ships Doctor with us”
”What about Grimes?”
“Leave him.”


----------



## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

Tony_T said:


> “What is that thing?”
> ”I don’t know, but lets go in”
> ”Wait….. let’s bring the Admiral, Chief Engineer and Ships Doctor with us”
> ”What about Grimes?”
> “Leave him.”


"Should we wear any kind of protective gear while exploring this alien ship?"
"Nah, what could go wrong?"


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Tony_T said:


> “What is that thing?”
> ”I don’t know, but lets go in”
> ”Wait….. let’s bring the Admiral, Chief Engineer and Ships Doctor with us”
> ”What about Grimes?”
> “Leave him.”





getbak said:


> "Should we wear any kind of protective gear while exploring this alien ship?"
> "Nah, what could go wrong?"


“the Admiral seems to be infected with some sort of micro organism”
”Should we quarantine?”
”Nah!”


----------



## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

This was Seth McFarland's version of Alien I guess, but with some really really stupid choices.

Starting with the exploration of the ship without being suited up. Not quaranteening after returning (esp. the Admiral). then not putting him in some form of isolation when he starts changing.

I like the fact this is becoming more of serious SF show as opposed to the mix of crude comedy/drama it was when it started. But damn is it dark.

I noticed in teh beginning of the ep when they're talking to the other admiral some horible green screen effects. guess the increased budget didn't cover that.

Why didn't Isacc do something when he encountered the alien rather than just stand there looking at it. He could've grabbed it and restrained it, taken it to the brig, anything but what he did.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Craigbob said:


> Why didn't Isacc do something when he encountered the alien rather than just stand there looking at it. He could've grabbed it and restrained it, taken it to the brig, anything but what he did.


I got the feeling that he didn't know if the thing would recognize him as an artificial life form so he just stood still.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Just watched "Mortality Paradox". Seeing as how the alien had just generated a mini-reality involving the Kaylons, I'm surprised that the crew didn't ask for help from their species.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> Just watched "Mortality Paradox". Seeing as how the alien had just generated a mini-reality involving the Kaylons, I'm surprised that the crew didn't ask for help from their species.


Just what the Orville needed, the Q. 

I predicted the main plot detail by the time they got to the plane. The only part I didn’t predict was who the alien species would be or that they had replaced one of the crew.


----------



## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

So this one was a cross between TNG's The Royale by way of a friendly Q type alien, but worked better than it had any right to.

I enjoyed it, but I wish they gave us more time wuth the alien.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

”Tale of Two Topas” was a long (75 min) boring episode.


----------



## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Tony_T said:


> ”Tale of Two Topas” was a long (75 min) boring episode.


I quite liked it. A bit heavy handed on the topic, but a good episode nonetheless.


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

I liked it as well. I thought it was well done.


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

I enjoyed it. And Klyden is a jerk.


----------



## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

allan said:


> I enjoyed it. And Klyden is a jerk.


I can't quite go there with Klyden- since he was born female as well. 

Bummer this is a fat bit of character serialization (for both Bortas and Topas) that we'll probably never see to completion.


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Saturn_V said:


> I can't quite go there with Klyden- since he was born female as well.


That should make him more empathetic , not less!


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

I also enjoyed it, I appreciate that they kept Klyden an A-hole, and didn't have him 180 and become a doting dad that regretted also being transformed from female.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

vertigo235 said:


> I also enjoyed it, I appreciate that they kept Klyden an A-hole, and didn't have him 180 and become a doting dad that regretted also being transformed from female.


Which I totally expected them to do.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

eddyj said:


> That should make him more empathetic , not less!


He’s been indoctrinated into the belief system of Moclas. When he says he wishes he never knew he was born a female, it’s because he feels shame for not having been born male. 

I could give an analogy to our world, but not in this forum.


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

morac said:


> He’s been indoctrinated into the belief system of Moclas. When he says he wishes he never knew he was born a female, it’s because he feels shame for not having been born male.


I get why. But I still claim it should make him more empathetic, not less. Same with real life analogues.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

And we all know that in real life, people do exactly as they should do.


----------



## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

eddyj said:


> I get why. But I still claim it should make him more empathetic, not less. Same with real life analogues.


Self hatred can cloud rational thoughts. Telling his daughter he wishes she was never born can come from that.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

I have to give MacFarlane credit when he said this season was going to handle bigger issues.
We had an episode on abortion, then an episode that's about trans kids, that's far more big issues in 2 episodes than Trek has in a season, and I'm a Trek junkie..


----------



## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

There will always be a soft spot in me for the morality plays and introspection on contemporary culture. It is encouraging to see The Orville champion it in its storytelling - even if the show's future is up in the air. Props to Brannon Braga and the writing staff too. The first episode about Issac's suicide was amazing. 



eddyj said:


> That should make him more empathetic , not less!


Clearly there's something that we're still in the dark regarding Moclan culture. I didn't read Klyden's shunning because Topas chose to be female- but because of the trauma she would endure by choosing to be female. Possibly trauma that Klyden has some experience with. More fear than hate and loathing. 

Does it justify the shunning? No. It's still walking away from your kid. But ask families of chronic alcohol/substance abusers of the choices they've had to make.


----------



## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

Saturn_V said:


> Clearly there's something that we're still in the dark regarding Moclan culture. I didn't read Klyden's shunning because Topas chose to be female- but because of the trauma she would endure by choosing to be female. Possibly trauma that Klyden has some experience with. More fear than hate and loathing.
> 
> Does it justify the shunning? No. It's still walking away from your kid. But ask families of chronic alcohol/substance abusers of the choices they've had to make.


 Substance abuse and wanting to be who you are, are two different things, IMHO. If he was concerned about the trauma, he would stay to protect her from it. I'd say it's a mix of fear, hate and self hate.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

_Star Trek_ has a long history of mixed-species hybrids---from Spock to Naomi Wildman. Was Anaya the first time we've seen a mixed-species individual on _The Orville_?


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Craigbob said:


> I quite liked it. A bit heavy handed on the topic, but a good episode nonetheless.


…and not much longer than any of the previous episodes.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

This episode was the longest…
…and the B story went nowhere.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Tony_T said:


> This episode was the longest…
> …and the B story went nowhere.


We get it; you didn't like it. Most of us here did.


----------



## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

*Spoilers for S03E06, "Twice in a Lifetime"...*

I find it highly implausible that Charly wouldn't know what a cell phone is. Surely they would have come up at some point during her education.

I also find it highly implausible that Ed and Kelly were surprised by Malloy's wife and kid(s), because they'd seen his obituary.

I _also_ find it highly implausible that the spot where Charly and Isaac needed to drill just happened to be underneath the one house in Southern California with a basement, which just happened to be vacant.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Bierboy said:


> We get it; you didn't like it. Most of us here did.


i _never_ said I didn’t like it.
Said is was long (the longest episode of the series), boring and that the B story went nowhere.


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

trainman said:


> *Spoilers for S03E06, "Twice in a Lifetime"...*
> 
> I find it highly implausible that Charly wouldn't know what a cell phone is. Surely they would have come up at some point during her education.
> 
> ...


Cellphones were big 400 years ago. It's probably more unusual that Malloy knows about them than Charley doesn't. I agree that the rest is very convienient.


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

trainman said:


> I _also_ find it highly implausible that the spot where Charly and Isaac needed to drill just happened to be underneath the one house in Southern California with a basement


Would have been even more implausible in FL!


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

OK, I really enjoyed "Twice in a Lifetime"---in particular, the way that Ed and Kelly took the choice away from Gordon as well as the solution to going back to the future...

(though I was a little surprised that the sandwich didn't show up again...what happened to it? it was supposed to arrive 3 months in the future, but the device will take at least 6 months to repair...)


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> OK, I really enjoyed "Twice in a Lifetime"---in particular, the way that Ed and Kelly took the choice away from Gordon as well as the solution to going back to the future...
> 
> (though I was a little surprised that the sandwich didn't show up again...what happened to it? it was supposed to arrive 3 months in the future, but the device will take at least 6 months to repair...)


It will be funny if the sandwich shows up in a future ep when we've forgotten about it.


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Did they ever explain how the Kaylons knew to destroy the base and be waiting for them to steal the device?


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

No


----------



## jpicard (Oct 26, 2004)

Now that we know that they simply need to turn off their dampening field to travel forward in time through relativity, haven't they just made every space battle irrelevant? Granted if you jump time just to get away from the bad guy then how do you get back?? I am guessing that if you travel yet again far enough into the future you can find a way back. Kinda like shiny sparkle girl did in last week's episode.


----------



## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

I really enjoyed Twice in a Lifetime. I like how Seth isn't hogging the spotlight and the crew is really able to be the center of the episodes. None of the nitpicks mentioned above bothered me. I would think it's understandable she didn't know what the phone was. Kids today have no clue what a rotary land line phone is. And that's not a 400 year difference.


----------



## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

jpicard said:


> Now that we know that they simply need to turn off their dampening field to travel forward in time through relativity, haven't they just made every space battle irrelevant? Granted if you jump time just to get away from the bad guy then how do you get back?? I am guessing that if you travel yet again far enough into the future you can find a way back. Kinda like shiny sparkle girl did in last week's episode.


No, there isn't enough mass to close our space-time. If you travel too far forward, you will find yourself in a dead universe, where nothing ever changes. Kind of like CBS.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

jpicard said:


> Now that we know that they simply need to turn off their dampening field to travel forward in time through relativity, haven't they just made every space battle irrelevant? Granted if you jump time just to get away from the bad guy then how do you get back?? I am guessing that if you travel yet again far enough into the future you can find a way back. Kinda like shiny sparkle girl did in last week's episode.


No need for that as they have that device, they just have to fix it, then they can go back in time and destroy the enemy (but they won’t as it will mess with the timeline — this season’s first episode had something about that, or maybe I’m thinking of Picard 😉)


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Amnesia said:


> OK, I really enjoyed "Twice in a Lifetime"---in particular, the way that Ed and Kelly took the choice away from Gordon as well as the solution to going back to the future...
> 
> (though I was a little surprised that the sandwich didn't show up again...what happened to it? it was supposed to arrive 3 months in the future, but the device will take at least 6 months to repair...)


I have a feeling the sandwich will show up again.


----------



## jasrub (May 9, 2008)

vertigo235 said:


> I have a feeling the sandwich will show up again.


I was wondering about that. Assuming the sandwich DOES show up when they said it would, would the sandwich appear in that same exact point in space, or would it know where the Orville was then ,and magically be where they are in space?


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

jasrub said:


> I was wondering about that. Assuming the sandwich DOES show up when they said it would, would the sandwich appear in that same exact point in space, or would it know where the Orville was then ,and magically be where they are in space?


It will show up wherever it needs to as a plot device for whatever story they are telling I imagine


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Since they said something like "it will reappear in the future and surprise us", they are expecting it to show up wherever they are. Which makes no sense, but neither do most time travel stories.


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

I hope the sandwich shows up and they just point at it and say "Hey!" And then move on.
But of course they won't, they will go into a full reminder discussion of what happened.

I miss Arrested Development. They were the Kings of not pointing out the joke.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

jasrub said:


> Assuming the sandwich DOES show up when they said it would, would the sandwich appear in that same exact point in space, or would it know where the Orville was then ,and magically be where they are in space?


Isn't that what happened when they sent the sandwich back 10 seconds? I assume the ship was moving at the time...


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> Isn't that what happened when they sent the sandwich back 10 seconds? I assume the ship was moving at the time...


Even if not "moving", it was probably moving, depending on your frame of reference.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

The sandwich was sent 3 months in the future, and one on the last scenes (IIRC) said “one month later”, so, agree, we will see it reappear.


----------



## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

eddyj said:


> Even if not "moving", it was probably moving, depending on your frame of reference.


I don't know about the Orville universe, but in the one we live in there is no preferred frame of reference.


----------



## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

I thought it was a ripoff of the Next Generation episode where Picard lives his life through an alien device, except Malloy didn't remember in the end.

Also, I didn't like how they were casually were flying through time like it was a cab ride. 

Bigger problems for me than Charley not knowing what a cellphone was or the basement they had to drill.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Getting Back to the Future was also a rip-off of *Star* *Trek* *IV*: *The* *Voyage* *Home*
Also, in the movie, Scotty did’t know what a mouse was 😁)


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Sorry, but this was nothing whatsoever like "The Inner Light". "The Inner Light" did not feature time travel, Picard lived a lifetime in the vision (not just 10 years), it was all in his head and he remembered the experience.

In fact, I can't think of a single thing that the two episodes have in common, besides being on _Trek_-like shows.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> OK, I really enjoyed "Twice in a Lifetime"---in particular, the way that Ed and Kelly took the choice away from Gordon as well as the solution to going back to the future...


I’m glad they decided to do this as the first thing I thought of when they said they were going to get more time fuel, was why not just go back another 10 years?

Drilling from the basement of the house did make no sense though, especially since while they were drilling they made lateral course corrections. The extra few feet from drilling outside the house wouldn’t have made much difference. If they needed to do so somewhere less populated, I’m sure there some some place secluded not that far away.


----------



## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

morac said:


> Drilling from the basement of the house did make no sense though, especially since while they were drilling they made lateral course corrections. The extra few feet from drilling outside the house wouldn’t have made much difference. If they needed to do so somewhere less populated, I’m sure there some some place secluded not that far away.


I guess you missed the fact that to drill, they needed a house with a basement. This almost certainly the only tract house in Southern California with a basement.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Is this the final season? if so, I would have preferred that Grimes stayed in the past (happening in an episode near the end). The Timeline couldn’t have changed if he didn’t do anything to make it change (yeah, I know, the kids, or their kids do something), but other than keeping his weapon, he kept a low profile, got a normal job, and didn’t use his knowledge of the future to enrich himself.

Rios was allowed to stay in the past with a woman he fell in love with, so why not Malloy? 😉😉

And if the Kaylon continue to beat the Union, will Mercer really not bend the rules (as he has many times before) and travel to the past with a repaired device to destroy the Kaylon?


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

ej42137 said:


> I guess you missed the fact that to drill, they needed a house with a basement. This almost certainly the only tract house in Southern California with a basement.


I don’t recall them saying they needed a house with a basement. I thought that house just happened to be the closest point to the deposit.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

morac said:


> I don’t recall them saying they needed a house with a basement. I thought that house just happened to be the closest point to the deposit.


Yes, and it was also convenient that the RE Agent didn’t go into the basement while they were drilling.


----------



## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

ej42137 said:


> I guess you missed the fact that to drill, they needed a house with a basement. This almost certainly the only tract house in Southern California with a basement.


They didn't need a house with a basement, but the deposit of Dysonium was situated beneath the house which happened to have a basement, which as anyone who lives/lived in So. Cal knows don't exist. Of course having a basement makes it really convinent to contain the rubble when the house inevitabely collapses due an earthquake.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Tony_T said:


> Getting Back to the Future was also a rip-off of *Star* *Trek* *IV*: *The* *Voyage* *Home*
> Also, in the movie, Scotty did’t know what a mouse was )


Hello computer!


----------



## Allanon (Nov 2, 2005)

The sandwich will appear wherever it thought about last.


----------



## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

Oh and I also loved that he was singing the song from the Last Unicorn.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

JYoung said:


> It's a Seth McFarlane show.
> Are you really expecting scientific accuracy?


I'm way behind the rest of you, so I'm not reading too far ahead in this thread, so hopefully I'm not smeeking, but... don't forget that "Cosmos: A SpaceTime Odyssey" and "Cosmos: Possible Worlds" were also both (technically) Seth McFarlane shows.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

trainman said:


> I _also_ find it highly implausible that the spot where Charly and Isaac needed to drill just happened to be underneath the one house in Southern California with a basement, which just happened to be vacant.


The real estate market crashed in 2025.


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

JYoung said:


> The real estate market crashed in 2025.


That part seems perfectly reasonable.


----------



## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

I forgot to watch this episode, new episodes are every Thursday, right? With all the streaming services I use I sometimes lose track of when new episodes come on. And it just dawned on me that I forgot to watch the latest episode of Evil yesterday on Paramount +. At least I know what I'll be watching tonight. Tomorrow is a new episode of Only Murders in the Building as well as The Bob's Burgers Movie on Hulu.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

jamesbobo said:


> I forgot to watch this episode, new episodes are every Thursday, right? With all the streaming services I use I sometimes lose track of when new episodes come on. And it just dawned on me that I forgot to watch the latest episode of Evil yesterday on Paramount +. At least I know what I'll be watching tonight. Tomorrow is a new episode of Only Murders in the Building as well as The Bob's Burgers Movie on Hulu.


Yes Thursday. One of the benefits of using Apple TV is new episodes of shows on various streaming services show up on my watch list in the TV app as they are released.


----------



## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

morac said:


> Yes Thursday. One of the benefits of using Apple TV is new episodes of shows on various streaming services show up on my watch list in the TV app as they are released.


Apple TV is one of the services I don't have. I have Netflix, Hulu, HBOMAX, Paramount +, Amazon Prime, Disney +, and ShowtimeAnytime.


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

jamesbobo said:


> Apple TV is one of the services I don't have. I have Netflix, Hulu, HBOMAX, Paramount +, Amazon Prime, Disney +, and ShowtimeAnytime.


I think they are talking about the AppleTV hardware, not the streaming service.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

eddyj said:


> I think they are talking about the AppleTV hardware, not the streaming service.


Sort of. The TV app, which is available on Apple TV boxes and iOS devices has an aggregated up next list which populates from connected Apps. Nearly any app (Netflix being the big exception) can be connected. As such I get notified any time there is a new episode of The Orville, among several other streaming shows I watch.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Craigbob said:


> So this one was a cross between TNG's The Royale by way of a friendly Q type alien, but worked better than it had any right to.
> 
> I enjoyed it, but I wish they gave us more time wuth the alien.


Less “The Royale”, more “Future Imperfect,” I’d say.


----------



## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

Interesting interview/write-up on the Topa episode:








Seth MacFarlane on ‘Orville’s’ Trans Allegory and ‘Family Guy’ Reflections


The creator and star discusses learning from the Hulu show's past missteps, how he'd tackle a Roe v. Wade episode and previous projects that might have benefited from more nuance: "There are always things that you would do differently."




www.hollywoodreporter.com


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Tony_T said:


> i _never_ said I didn’t like it.
> Said is was long (the longest episode of the series), boring and that the B story went nowhere.


Coulda fooled me...


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

The last episode was good, better than the long and boring episode before it 😁


----------



## Howie (May 3, 2004)

I liked the biker bar scenes with the classic Stones background music. I thought this was one of the better Orville apps I've watched. I'm a sucker for time travel.


----------



## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

I thought episode 7 was one of the best of the season.

I'm grateful Issac rebooted. It would have been obnoxious if it lasted.

The secondary storyline was good too, though I don't see how lying was a good strategy.


----------



## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

Another good episode. I did feel bad for Isaac and Claire when he went back to no emotions. I think it would have been interesting.

I hope they want to do more seasons.


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

I spewed whatever liquid I was drinking when Bortus asked why they'd want an alliance with such backrard thinking people.


----------



## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

For half this episode I was wondering how the aliens getting the Kaylon was fitting in to the rest of the episode. Then they tied it in. A very well done episode. 

So Issac did something for Claire and she reciprocated. I guess that defines love. Too bad he couldn't hold on to the feelings. But I don't understans why they couldn't back up his memories and then restore them after the procedure. But then again I had the same question about C-3PO in Rise of Skywalker. And lo & behold R2 had an old back up and restored 3PO to most of his former self. A couple of lines of dialogue could've cleard that up.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

I wonder how they decided to make the lights orange on the OG Kaylons. Is that meant to imply that they were already very close to the murderous red light Kaylons?

EDIT: And why did the OG Kaylons have guns in their heads? Didn't anyone see a problem with torturing robots who are displaying independence when said robots could easily shoot their owners?


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> EDIT: And why did the OG Kaylons have guns in their heads? Didn't anyone see a problem with torturing robots who are displaying independence when said robots could easily shoot their owners?


I think they added those themselves, as they became sentient.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Did I miss where K-1 went out to the garage and built the guns?


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> Did I miss where K-1 went out to the garage and built the guns?


There was clearly time passing, and at some point the Kaylons started communicating with each other and planning. It would not have taken much to have them even substitute for each other when one needed upgrading. They don't have to show everything!


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

When Timmis is explaining the Kaylon history to Charly we're supposed to understand that all that stuff he's describing happened, even though they didn't show it happening during the flashbacks. He talked about learning to communicate, learning to "defend" (against the pain emitters I guess) and also something about arming themselves (I can't remember exactly what he said).


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

This show has reached a new level with this season. It's become a must-watch within a couple days of airing. Previously I'd let them pile up.


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> This show has reached a new level with this season. It's become a must-watch within a couple days of airing. Previously I'd let them pile up.


I had lost track of the day, but late yesterday afternoon, I suddenly remembered it was Orville Day.


----------



## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

So LaMarr kept getting injured by Talla... but what about his previous partner (seen in S3E1)?


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Craigbob said:


> For half this episode I was wondering how the aliens getting the Kaylon was fitting in to the rest of the episode. Then they tied it in. A very well done episode.
> 
> So Issac did something for Claire and she reciprocated. I guess that defines love. Too bad he couldn't hold on to the feelings. But I don't understans why they couldn't back up his memories and then restore them after the procedure. But then again I had the same question about C-3PO in Rise of Skywalker. And lo & behold R2 had an old back up and restored 3PO to most of his former self. A couple of lines of dialogue could've cleard that up.


Or a routine that detects when the emotions routine's been wiped and immediately re-enters it.


trainman said:


> So LaMarr kept getting injured by Talla... but what about his previous partner (seen in S3E1)?


I told my wife he sleeps with every female alien on board, the Kirk/Riker of The Orville.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

I'm really loving the show this season too, not that I did not love it before.

I really hope they get more seasons.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I know that they needed for Isaac to be different from Timmus for the story to work, but I would have expected Timmus to have been upgraded at some point to have the same processes as Isaac. Anyway this episode had some good parts, some bad (lying to gain trust for an alliance), and still think that this season could have been helped with some time editing.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

So was this Canadian Sci Fi actor week on the Orville?

Eliza Taylor and Christopher Larkin: The 100.

Elyse Levesque: Stargate Universe.


----------



## ThePennyDropped (Jul 5, 2006)

eddyj said:


> at some point the Kaylons started communicating with each other and planning.


Gotta wonder if it was the same plan the Cylons had.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

ThePennyDropped said:


> Gotta wonder if it was the same plan the Cylons had.


Nawwww the Kaylons actually planned


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

ThePennyDropped said:


> Gotta wonder if it was the same plan the Cylons had.


Either would be better than the plan the BG writers had!


----------



## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

eddyj said:


> Either would be better than the plan the BG writers had!


In all fairness, the Cylons never bothered to tell the writers their plan.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

morac said:


> Yes Thursday. One of the benefits of using Apple TV is new episodes of shows on various streaming services show up on my watch list in the TV app as they are released.


I use the TV Club app on my iPhone to track episodes.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Ok, kind of glad Isaac didn’t get to keep the emotions. I don’t know if I could have dealt with more of “up with people” Kaylons.

Anyone out there that didn’t see the whole all female crew ruse falling apart, raise your hands. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> Anyone out there that didn’t see the whole all female crew ruse falling apart, raise your hands. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?


But did it fail? After all, they agreed to a future (female, of course) emissary and future negotiations. If they had known men were involved in the first place, they would not have set foot on the Orville or agreed to meet at all.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

eddyj said:


> But did it fail? After all, they agreed to a future (female, of course) emissary and future negotiations. If they had known men were involved in the first place, they would not have set foot on the Orville or agreed to meet at all.


Yeah because the speech that made them agree in the first place couldn’t possibly have happened without first lying to a potential ally in a diplomatic encounter. 

It was the stupidest thing they could have done. Why would anyone trust them after that lie?


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

They finally let Klyden come to Jesus.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

What I didn't understand is how the Moclans knew about Topa's agreement with Heveena...it seems like they kidnapped her only minutes later. If they were keeping so close tabs tabs that they realized that Topa agreed to be a communications conduit, how is it that they didn't know the details of the contact/frequencies?


----------



## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> how the Moclans knew


I never met a writer who couldn't come up with an explanation. They had observation devices but not close enough for the whispered details. They had an informant who knew the arrangement was planned but didn't know the data itself. Maybe they just added two and two going in, to guess the obvious: the development of an asset would be attempted. Personally I suspect they ran tachyon particles in reverse through the transporter.

The writer is God, omniscient and all-powerful in his little universe.


----------



## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

I'll put this out there: The blue firefly creature was actually a spy drone, it listened in and then lured Topa away from the rest of the party so she could be grabbed.
But then an overzealous editor chopped the part where the camera zoomed in on the blue one to show it had technology, or the CGI crew ran out of money before they got to that part..


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

phox_mulder said:


> I'll put this out there: The blue firefly creature was actually a spy drone, it listened in and then lured Topa away from the rest of the party so she could be grabbed.
> But then an overzealous editor chopped the part where the camera zoomed in on the blue one to show it had technology, or the CGI crew ran out of money before they got to that part..


I thought something like that, especially as it lured her to where she could be kidnapped.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Yeah, but if it listened in then why did they need to torture Topa for the information?


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Funny how all the races in the background sent one male and one female ambassador


----------



## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

Anubys said:


> Funny how all the races in the background sent one male and one female ambassador


25th Century Affirmative Action?

Not that the guys didn't deserve to be there but just a bit of help to create opportunities for them .


----------



## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> What I didn't understand is how the Moclans knew about Topa's agreement with Heveena...it seems like they kidnapped her only minutes later. If they were keeping so close tabs tabs that they realized that Topa agreed to be a communications conduit, how is it that they didn't know the details of the contact/frequencies?


History suggests that black rendered extradition and torture interrogation sites do not operate on the basis of a sure knowledge that somebody processes information, Topa being a female Moclan from a Union ship visiting Heveena's house could have given them a deluded "reason to believe".

It was good/bad luck the belief was true not deluded.

Why Topa was given a real name not a code name for the contact is another question.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

The Orville (all three seasons) comes to Disney+ on August 10. 


https://gizmodo.com/orville-seth-macfarlane-hulu-disney-san-diego-comiccon-1849323791



He still is not _completely_ eliminating the thought of another season. (Apparently it's more up to Hulu than anything else at this point.)


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I'm sure many have said this before, I was disappointed that the show wasn't a comedy when it first came out. My favorite unintentional comedy is when the two pilots are doing hairpin maneuvers through mountains/rocks/ships/battle while looking down every second or two to press buttons on their screen.


----------



## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

Anubys said:


> My favorite unintentional comedy is when the two pilots are doing hairpin maneuvers through mountains/rocks/ships/battle while looking down every second or two to press buttons on their screen.


The ship's maneuvers are all the execution of programming automatically reacting to the terrain, the actions of the pursuers, and the progress/achievement of goals set by the pilots, etc.; no continual control is required. The button pressing is to enter additional parameters, variations, adjustments. If I were the writer that's what I would say to you with a straight face.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Wil said:


> The ship's maneuvers are all the execution of programming automatically reacting to the terrain, the actions of the pursuers, and the progress/achievement of goals set by the pilots, etc.; no continual control is required. The button pressing is to enter additional parameters, variations, adjustments. If I were the writer that's what I would say to you with a straight face.


LOL...and I would laugh at your straight face!


----------



## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Amnesia said:


> Yeah, but if it listened in then why did they need to torture Topa for the information?


Heveena did whisper the name and frequencies, the blue firefly didn't pick that part up, only the fact that something was whispered.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Looks like the Kaylons are in a stronger position to wipe out all living races with the expulsion of the Moclans from the Union (“The need of the one, or the few, outweigh the needs of the many”)


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Anubys said:


> I'm sure many have said this before, I was disappointed that the show wasn't a comedy when it first came out. My favorite unintentional comedy is when the two pilots are doing hairpin maneuvers through mountains/rocks/ships/battle while looking down every second or two to press buttons on their screen.


It's not too far fetched to believe that in their time period they have been able to develop autonomous ships that can maneuver themselves. It's possible that they may also have figured out a way to avoid hitting pedestrians.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

mr.unnatural said:


> It's not too far fetched to believe that in their time period they have been able to develop autonomous ships that can maneuver themselves. It's possible that they may also have figured out a way to avoid hitting pedestrians.


Except that they have pilots who are, you know, piloting the ship...and the pilot guy with the beard is heralded as a great pilot!


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

The BMDE between Bortus and Kelly was palpable...too bad Klyden came back.


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> The BMDE between Bortus and Kelly was palpable...too bad Klyden came back.


Yeah, it was weird that they would go in that direction with Kelly/Bortus, and then just bring Klyden back. But with the final dinner including all, maybe it will become an poly family.


----------



## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

BMDE = Big Moclan D**k Energy?

My Google Fu is failing me. Maybe I’d know if I watched the episode but won’t have a chance to til later.


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

I don't know what it means, but I can infer what it refers to.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Google search yields: Baidyanathdham Deoghar Railway Station _(India) _


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

This was in an earlier episode, but LaMarr spitting out his teeth and agreeing to break up with (insert name here, I don't remember names) was really well done and very funny.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Anubys said:


> This was in an earlier episode, but LaMarr spitting out his teeth and agreeing to break up with (insert name here, I don't remember names) was really well done and very funny.


Earlier this season? I have no recall of a scene like that.

Also have no idea what BMDE means.


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Hank said:


> Earlier this season? I have no recall of a scene like that.


The one where LaMarr keeps on getting injured while having sex and telling the doctor he is just training too hard. If you don't remember this, you were either sleeping or missed an episode!


----------



## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

It was episode 5 or 6, so not early in the season. Just earlier than the current episodes being discussed.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

eddyj said:


> The one where LaMarr keeps on getting injured while having sex and telling the doctor he is just training too hard. If you don't remember this, you were either sleeping or missed an episode!


Right, now I remember! Thanks


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Another great episode yesterday.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

vertigo235 said:


> Another great episode yesterday.


Yes, very _Star Wars_-esque.

Didn't really understand why the shuttle didn't immediately go down near the surface while the fighters distracted the defenders. Why did it stay in the middle of the action?


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> Yes, very _Star Wars_-esque.
> 
> Didn't really understand why the shuttle didn't immediately go down near the surface while the fighters distracted the defenders. Why did it stay in the middle of the action?


Yeah, I was screaming at the screen for that. Create a diversion! Cloak the ship! Sneak out! 

Then make it incredibly obvious there is something critically important in the middle of this formation!


----------



## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

Amnesia said:


> Yes, very _Star Wars_-esque.
> 
> Didn't really understand why the shuttle didn't immediately go down near the surface while the fighters distracted the defenders. Why did it stay in the middle of the action?


Since it's cloak was flashing on and off, I'd assume breaking away from the protection would make it a sitting duck.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

I was just reading a review of this episode and it points out that one possibility for _The Orville_ to continue into S4 is without MacFarlane (and presumably Grimes) as regular cast members (since they have committed to the _Ted_ spinoff series). Instead, Grayson could take command...


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Honestly, I felt the episode was actually too long, and would have worked better as a two parter. I know that this means less in the streaming world, but the overall length of the episode, and the length of the battle scene, fell a bit into the trap of "ok, this fight's dragging on and on, let's get back to more plot". (Maybe it was just me).

Although Ted Danson suggesting we sit down with the Kaylon one by one and teach them ethics made me giggle, as if we've seen that somewhere before.  

(Kaylon running through absurd variations of the Trolly Problem could be good for a laugh - Absurd Trolley Problems )


----------



## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

kdmorse said:


> Although Ted Danson suggesting we sit down with the Kaylon one by one and teach them ethics made me giggle, as if we've seen that somewhere before.


Thought I figured out the ending when they were all in there talking about that, explained how the weapon works and mentioning all the kaylons are linked up. I thought for sure the big solution was to combine the weapon with whatever software upgrades the dr came up with and blast it out to them all at once. 

This isn't the first time the show got me with dropping hints on what a typical sci-fi show would do to solve a problem and then flipping it to something else.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I expect they wanted to preserve the Kaylon as a very different species and keep the tension between them and the rest of the Union: giving them all feelings like Timmis would undermine that.

I agree that the battle scene dragged. It could have been 5 minutes shorter and had more punch.

Still another really good episode.


----------



## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

I do think them changing the Kaylon from a big threat to being on their side was done much better than I expected. So many sci-fi shows tend to do that in ways that I find either boring or in a way that doesn't feel genuine.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

mlsnyc said:


> BMDE = Big Moclan D**k Energy?


----------



## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

They do drag the battles longer than most would want, but this week's episode is another example on why The Orville is an excellent series.

It is worthy of a season 4!


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

One of the nice things about the Orville is that it's a familiar universe (very TNGy), yet not an established universe with a set future. So they can do things like upend the status quo without having to twist themselves in knots to put it back to match "established canon" at the end of the episode/season/series. The Star Trek universe can't really get away with big upsets like the shift from Kaylon vs Union+Moclan vs Kriill to Kaylon + Union vs Krill + Moclan. Discovery kinda tried to shoehorn universe changing story into the past, and when that didn't work terribly well, they jumped so far into the future as to bypass all existing canon, and that caused an entirely different set of problems.

Similarly, Orville they can get away with plot points similar to Star Trek, without it feeling like a rehash of an episode we've already seen, because at least they're not reusing plot points from within their own franchise. When Star Trek steals from an episode of Star Trek that stole from _another_ episdoes of Star Trek, those of us that have see every episode of Star Trek kinda roll our eyes. But when Orville borrows a little from Star Wars, a little from Star Trek, a little from Enders Game, teases a little from The Good Place - it works out.

It's absolutely worthy of a fourth season. I really think McFarlane managed to create something that exceeded even his own vision here.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Behind the scenes of Dolly's cameo


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

That space battle was soooo long. I started 30 second skipping to get through it.
Didn't we just have a base infiltration episode? I felt like I was watching the same episode.
If the decision were mine, I would've used the weapon to wipe them out. Especially since when we get down to it they are just machines. We wouldn't think twice about bombing gun emplacements or using EMP weapons against a computer. Just because they have a human shape shouldn't make a difference. The terminator had a human shape too.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Donbadabon said:


> Didn't we just have a base infiltration episode? I felt like I was watching the same episode.


 I said, well, I guess they're going to re-use the sets! But then I realized both infiltrations were into Moclan secret bases so I guess it makes sense they look the same: it's very on-brand for Moclus.


Donbadabon said:


> Especially since when we get down to it they are just machines. We wouldn't think twice about bombing gun emplacements or using EMP weapons against a computer. Just because they have a human shape shouldn't make a difference. The terminator had a human shape too.


I think if you find yourself agreeing with the oppressive race that abused the Kaylon badly enough that they decided genocide was a good idea, you probably should reconsider your position 

On the other hand when they were showing how the Kaylon were treated and the corporate CEO who decided to hand out pain zappers to "fix" the problem of self-aware robots, I was definitely like, "oh that's exactly how we would do it, no question".


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Didn’t the Kaylon state that their surrender was only until they can defend against the device and then they woukd resume to wipe out all life forms? So why would they allow their leader, Prime, to assist in recovering the device?


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

At that point they needed the Kaylon's help to recover the device, I'm not sure they really had a choice.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Tony_T said:


> Didn’t the Kaylon state that their surrender was only until they can defend against the device and then they woukd resume to wipe out all life forms? So why would they allow their leader, Prime, to assist in recovering the device?


There really was no good reason for Prime to be down on the planet. It’s like sending the President on an away mission. It makes no sense. He could have sent one of his underlings. 

Speaking of which, I’m not sure why Teleya was there either. Especially wandering around by herself.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Donbadabon said:


> That space battle was soooo long. I started 30 second skipping to get through it.
> Didn't we just have a base infiltration episode? I felt like I was watching the same episode.
> If the decision were mine, I would've used the weapon to wipe them out. Especially since when we get down to it they are just machines. We wouldn't think twice about bombing gun emplacements or using EMP weapons against a computer. Just because they have a human shape shouldn't make a difference. The terminator had a human shape too.


They are sentient. So they are not just machines. Your view is how their makers saw them and how they justified what they did to them.

Also, clearly, the slavery metaphor is completely lost on you, LOL. 



morac said:


> There really was no good reason for Prime to be down on the planet. It’s like sending the President on an away mission. It makes no sense. He could have sent one of his underlings.
> 
> Speaking of which, I’m not sure why Teleya was there either. Especially wandering around by herself.


It's no different than the Orville sending out the Captain, first officer, head of engineering, ...etc. (basically their entire command crew) on every mission and leaving an Ensign in charge of the ship. People in that universe are all dumb.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

morac said:


> There really was no good reason for Prime to be down on the planet. It’s like sending the President on an away mission. It makes no sense. He could have sent one of his underlings.


Its not that, we found out that they can re-create Primus, so he’s not at risk, its that he has stated that the peace is only in effect until they can defend against the device, then it’s “Kill all Humans”, so why would Mercer give him access to it? (but in the end, they changed his mind by Charly sacrificing her life to save the Kaylons)

It seems that when Mercer gives an order you don’t like, its easy to change his mind,
I also find the numerous long closeups of MacFaflane unintentionally very funny.


----------



## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

morac said:


> There really was no good reason for Prime to be down on the planet. It’s like sending the President on an away mission. It makes no sense. He could have sent one of his underlings.


Any questions?
Kaylon Primary: I will accompany the ground mission.
I had assumed that you would be leading the Kaylon fleet.
Kaylon Primary: Kaylon Secondary will command our forces.
We already have one Kaylon. We don't need another.
Kaylon Primary: On the contrary. Isaac has proven he is not to be trusted.
We trust Isaac. We don't trust you.
Kaylon Primary: You misplaced the weapon once before. I intend to ensure it does not happen again.

By a small margin I think Kaylon Primary kept himself safer by joining the Union infiltration squad than commanding the Kaylon battle fleet.

Read more at: https://tvshowtranscripts.ourboard.org/viewtopic.php?f=1358&t=55243


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Also he had to be there to see what’s her name sacrifice herself to save the Kaylons.


----------



## randyb359 (Jan 3, 2009)

vertigo235 said:


> Also he had to be there to see what’s her name sacrifice herself to save the Kaylons.


 It was not just her that sacrificed to save the Kaylon. They seem to ignore all the Union people who were killed on the ships while trying to get it back.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Well I mean that could be dismissed away as them just trying to get back a weapon that they could use to destroy the Kaylons.


----------



## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

randyb359 said:


> It was not just her that sacrificed to save the Kaylon. They seem to ignore all the Union people who were killed on the ships while trying to get it back.


In the end that's what their deaths amounted to. But until it reached the point that Charley had to trigger the meltdown and sacrifice herself in the process, the Union was still trying to recover the device so they can maintain their leverage on the Kaylons.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

No, I disagree. There was nothing irreplaceable about the weapon itself---they could always build another one...


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> No, I disagree. There was nothing irreplaceable about the weapon itself---they could always build another one...


Not once Charlie died since she apparently was the only person capable of building it along with Isaac and for reasons unknown no one wrote any of that down since it was stated there was no instruction manual.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

morac said:


> Not once Charlie died since she apparently was the only person capable of building it along with Isaac and for reasons unknown no one wrote any of that down since it was stated there was no instruction manual.


Didn't seem to slow down the Moclan guy from getting it to work.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

It was made clear that only the combination of Charly and Isaac could build it the first time. It's not clear that no one else could build it again. But anyway, the Kaylon didn't know any of that; clearly if they knew that they'd just kill one or both. They were just told that only Charly and Isaac together could hope to disarm it so both had to go to the surface. At least that's how I remember it


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Seems like it really was a great episode if this is what we are debating lol


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

vertigo235 said:


> Didn't seem to slow down the Moclan guy from getting it to work.


I can drive a car. That doesn’t mean I could build one from scratch.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

morac said:


> Not once Charlie died since she apparently was the only person capable of building it along with Isaac and for reasons unknown no one wrote any of that down since it was stated there was no instruction manual.


Yes, but my point was that the people attacking the base were *not* doing it to get the weapon back to use against the Kaylon themselves. If that's all they wanted, Isaac and Charly could have just built another weapon. The only reason for the Union fleet to attack the Moclan base was to prevent the weapon from being used to kill all the Kaylons.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

I mean the real question is why didn’t the Kaylons just blast the facility off the face of the planet once they knew it was there.


----------



## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

vertigo235 said:


> I mean the real question is why didn’t the Kaylons just blast the facility off the face of the planet once they knew it was there.


Unless you were sure it hadn't been armed the best first option could have been an attempt to disarm it. Blasting an armed weapon about which you know little had a higher risk of the weapon detonating.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I'm just glad Charlie is dead. I never liked that character.

Another good question in a long line of good questions: why is someone with apparently unique skills/abilities like Charlie stuck working as an Ensign pilot.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

She was a navigator, not a pilot. Seems like her skills would be useful in that role.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Amnesia said:


> She was a navigator, not a pilot. Seems like her skills would be useful in that role.


Sure. But she was the only one who could revive Isaac and she was uniquely qualified/able to create the weapon. Navigators should be a dime a dozen in the fleet. They were severely underusing her talents.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Anubys said:


> I'm just glad Charlie is dead. I never liked that character.
> 
> Another good question in a long line of good questions: why is someone with apparently unique skills/abilities like Charlie stuck working as an Ensign pilot.


Apparently if you are super talented and smart you have to start off as a Navigator, if you recall John Lamarr was also "just a navigator" before he became Chief Engineer.


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

vertigo235 said:


> Apparently if you are super talented and smart you have to start off as a Navigator, if you recall John Lamarr was also "just a navigator" before he became Chief Engineer.


TB, Lamarr hid his brains by goofing around and humping statues.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Amnesia said:


> She was a navigator, not a pilot. Seems like her skills would be useful in that role.


As Charly and Issac were the only two who could create the only device to save all life forms, was being on the Orville the right decision, or would it have been better to have them on Earth building additional devices and maybe a handbook 😁


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Tony_T said:


> As Charly and Issac were the only two who could create the only device to save all life forms, was being on the Orville the right decision, or would it have been better to have them on Earth building additional devices and maybe a handbook 😁


Technical people don't do documentation.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

allan said:


> Technical people don't do documentation.


Just hook Issac up to a printer and press the print button 😀


----------



## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

Anubys said:


> Sure. But she was the only one who could revive Isaac and she was uniquely qualified/able to create the weapon. Navigators should be a dime a dozen in the fleet. They were severely underusing her talents.


Plus she could see in 4 dimensions!


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Penny Johnson Jerald, Jessica Szohr and Anne Winters are on Instagram Live right now. Adrianne Palicki is supposed to join as well.
Edit: It's over. They mostly talked about "Domino" (S03E09) and while they didn't give any spoilers about the season finale, they consistently referred to it as the "Season 3 finale" and never as the "series finale".


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Anubys said:


> I'm just glad Charlie is dead. I never liked that character.


Total disagreement here...she was a fascinating, well-developed character who grew into the person who not only saved Isaac, but sacrificed her life for the very race that destroyed her "family".


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Man I'm sad this show is done, Season 3 was great. I'll need to rewatch on Disney+ to do my part to help for a renewal.


----------



## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

It was a fitting series finale, if that's what it ends up being, but also potential for future storylines too.

If MacFarlane and Grimes have to leave the show because of their commitments to Ted, Family Guy, and American Dad, I think the show could do well having Kelly take over as captain and giving some of the other cast bigger roles.

It was nice to see Alara return if only briefly.


"All kidding aside."


----------



## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

Come on, Kelly, don't pretend like movies are something only found on primitive backwater planets -- how many 20th-century movie musicals has Ed made everyone watch?


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

I have to say I'm envious of the girl from downvote planet. Id love to leave this planet for the Orville universe.


----------



## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

allan said:


> Id love to leave this planet for the Orville universe.


I'd settle for a mirror universe of this one.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

"The Sandwich"


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

This last episode felt more like an epilogue, especially after such a massive episode nine. Not bad, just a little oddly light comparatively. I guess they didn’t want to leave the series on anything that might seem like a cliffhanger or a down note, so I suppose it wasn’t a bad idea.

So, they do have dress uniforms. Good to finally see them on what could be the final episode ever.

I thought Bortus could passably sing the last time he tried. What happened?

As soon as Gordon sat down with the guitar, I was afraid he’d start singing that song from The Last Unicorn again.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

LoadStar said:


> So, they do have dress uniforms. Good to finally see them (...)


They were OK, but I really liked the black suits that Isaac and Claire's kids were wearing...


----------



## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Anubys said:


> I'm just glad Charlie is dead. I never liked that character.


Same, but I could never figure out whether I hated the character or if it was just bad acting. I think it might have been both.


----------



## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

PJO1966 said:


> bad acting


I had been assuming she was a singer or a model or some kind of celebrity rather than a professional actor? But she did give good looks now & then.

A friend of Alan Ladd, late in his career, asked him one day at lunch in the studio cafeteria whether he had done any good scenes that day and he said, "no, but I got in a couple of good looks." That can be a pretty good morning's work.


----------



## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

PJO1966 said:


> Same, but I could never figure out whether I hated the character or if it was just bad acting. I think it might have been both.


She’s far from being the best of the bunch but I don’t think she stood out like a sore thumb either. This isn’t a show defined by its stellar acting.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Wil said:


> I had been assuming she was a singer or a model or some kind of celebrity rather than a professional actor?


She was (is?) Seth MacFarlane's girlfriend.


----------



## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

It was a nice episode. I got the impression they are doing more seasons based on how it was talked about by Seth recently (was it at a comic con where he was on a video feed?).

Anyway - I think they did an exponentially better job at explaining the prime directive than Star Trek ever did.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

PJO1966 said:


> Same, but I could never figure out whether I hated the character or if it was just bad acting. I think it might have been both.


A combination of subpar acting and subpar writing, IMO.

It's not that her acting was Tommy Wiseau bad but in no way was it Patrick Stewart level.
But most of her interactions with the Senior Staff seemed forced.
As in I'm looking at her in the scene and wondering why she's even there in the first place.

I get why they felt they needed to include her as the writers were trying to make us connect with the character and care about what happens with her.

But they really didn't pull it off as well as could have been done.

Honestly, Yaphit should have been pissed off that she got more screen time than he did.


----------



## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

That was hilarious when the Kaylon showed up for the wedding!
Also, I must say that the actor who plays Isaac is quite handsome, IMO!


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

A nice final episode if they don't get S4, but this was a good season so really I hope they do!


----------



## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

mlsnyc said:


> She’s far from being the best of the bunch but I don’t think she stood out like a sore thumb either.


That's exactly how she seemed to me. She stuck out like a sore thumb.



Amnesia said:


> She was (is?) Seth MacFarlane's girlfriend.


I had joked that the only reason she had gotten the job was because she was sleeping with Seth. It was a joke. I had no idea they were actually together.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

PJO1966 said:


> I had joked that the only reason she had gotten the job was because she was sleeping with Seth. It was a joke. I had no idea they were actually together.


Supposedly they only started dating after she started working on _The Orville_, but who knows?


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

PJO1966 said:


> Same, but I could never figure out whether I hated the character or if it was just bad acting. I think it might have been both.


For me, it's a few factors. For one, the way the character was introduced into the mix was not graceful in the least. You have a full cast that you know well by this point, and then all of a sudden this new character is introduced and suddenly she's the center of attention in multiple episodes. A (bad) analogy would be making a mixed drink... you have added a bunch of flavors that work really well together, that balance each other out... then you decide at the last minute to dump a half a cup of something super sour into the mix. Had you added just a bit, the sour might have been an interesting subtle note along with everything else, but now all you notice is that sour taste.

Plus, she kind of felt a bit Mary Sue-ish. Despite having an attitude the size of Jupiter, she was instantly a welcomed member of the crew... she had these amazing abilities, including the "ability to see fourth dimensionally," she could sing... it's was really very grating after a bit.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

JYoung said:


> I get why they felt they needed to include her as the writers were trying to make us connect with the character and care about what happens with her.


That's it, I think. I am guessing they had a pre-defined ending for the character. Thus, their thought was they wanted the audience to feel something about this brand new character when she died, so let's include her as much as possible.

And it kind of worked for me. When she died, after being jammed down our throats, I did feel something... relief.

The strategy might have worked better for them if it was a full 22 episode season... let the audience gradually warm to this new character. 10 episodes (technically only nine, since she died in ep. 9) is too short to try that kind of thing.


----------



## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

It was an excellent season and I will be sad if there is not a fourth one!


----------



## randyb359 (Jan 3, 2009)

The last episode very much felt like a series finale to me. I know it was suppose to be. Hopefully they change their minds and there is a season 4/


----------



## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

randyb359 said:


> The last episode very much felt like a series finale to me. I know it was supposed to be.


Agreed. The last episode was the cast party. It's done.

Clearly this is the case of a little boy being given the greatest electric train set ever, and he played it for all it was worth. He conned his way in with the promise of comedy then did the StarTrek he always wanted to do. Plus a nice Star Wars homage at the end to boot. Time to move on.

I enjoyed it all and I'd watch a season 4, but what would be the point?


----------



## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

Saturn_V said:


> I'd settle for a mirror universe of this one.


I think we _are_ the mirror universe: the evil one.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

randyb359 said:


> The last episode very much felt like a series finale to me. I know it was suppose to be. Hopefully they change their minds and there is a season 4/


I think it was written as a season finale, but one closed enough that it could also serve as a series finale as well. 

Seth still gives renewal at about 50/50 odds, with viewership on Disney+ possibly a deciding factor. I imagine Hulu likes the fact that it's gotten overall very good reviews from both critics and fans, but the fact that it never cracked the streaming top ten is probably on their mind as well. That, and the extensive production time a show like this requires, and then having to now recapture the cast and fit the show into their schedules.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I'm currently watching episode 6. This season is a lot more serious than previous seasons. Some heavy subjects being tackled so far. 😱


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> I'm currently watching episode 6. This season is a lot more serious than previous seasons. Some heavy subjects being tackled so far. 😱


Yeah, this season has a very different feel. I kinda miss the humor, but most of S3 really hits hard!


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

A little bit of humor is great, but the balance of humor/seriousness was great this season, IMO.


----------



## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> I'm currently watching episode 6. This season is a lot more serious than previous seasons. Some heavy subjects being tackled so far. 😱


For the first two seasons, the show seems to flip between high-concept work comedy and straight-up space opera melodrama. But the third season, they seem to have "gone for broke" and totally embraced the latter.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Saturn_V said:


> For the first two seasons, the show seems to flip between high-concept work comedy and straight-up space opera melodrama


That was my biggest complaint about S1 and S2 -- they couldn't decide which way to go -- comedy with dick and fart jokes, or a stand-up homage to Star Trek with great sci-fi writing. I'm glad they dropped that and finally made a great season of shows in S3.


----------



## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

Saturn_V said:


> For the first two seasons, the show seems to flip between high-concept work comedy and straight-up space opera melodrama. But the third season, they seem to have "gone for broke" and totally embraced the latter.





Hank said:


> That was my biggest complaint about S1 and S2 -- they couldn't decide which way to go -- comedy with dick and fart jokes, or a stand-up homage to Star Trek with great sci-fi writing. I'm glad they dropped that and finally made a great season of shows in S3.


My recollection was the humor settled a bit during season 2.

I'm thinking of recommending Orville to my wife who hated season 1 because of the humor. Was season 2 almost as much?


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Family said:


> I'm thinking of recommending Orville to my wife who hated season 1 because of the humor. Was season 2 almost as much?


Maybe a tad less in S2, but still too distracting from the story-telling for my tastes.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Huh. In the original version of "Twice in a Lifetime," they... Wait, "original version?" Yeah, stay with me here.

As I was saying, in the original version of that episode, there was a paradox that got created. After arriving in the year 2015, Malloy sent a message into the future saying that he had been there 6 months and was trapped in the past. The episode continued, with the Orville traveling back, but to the year 2025, and encountered a Malloy that had settled in and hooked up with the girl from the cellphone and had a family and a job and all that. Failing to get Malloy to leave the year 2025 and go back to the future, the Orville then traveled back to 2015, but arrived a month after Malloy arrived in the past. They retrieved Malloy and went back to the future.

The paradox that was created that _many_ (including myself) picked up on was that the message that caused them to go back to the past was sent 6 months after he arrived, meaning the Malloy they picked up from a month after he arrived hadn't sent the message, meaning he _couldn't_ send the message, meaning - paradox.

Apparently, the episode has since been edited using ADR (automated dialog replacement - when actors go into the recording booth and re-perform their lines to get clean audio). The first change was to make the message that Malloy sent say that he was there three months when he sent the message, not 6 as in the original version. The second change was to the end of the episode, where LaMarr now says that "Gordon arrived four months ago" instead of "Gordon arrived about a month ago."

The captioning didn't get updated for either change... they still have the original lines. And while the ADR was fine for the change to the message, since it was just an audio message, the ADR to LaMarr's line was unfortunately very noticeable. (Like, as noticeable as the censored Sigourney Weaver line from "Galaxy Quest" - that noticeable.)

I noted the problem with the original episode, but can't take credit for noticing the changes... just watched this video that pointed it out. (It's a 5 minute video that says basically what I said above.)


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

So, the Hulu people went back in time to fix the Orville's paradox?


----------

