# Google TV needs to work with TiVo!



## doctord

I saw the preview announcement of Google TV and don't see TiVo mentioned. It seems like what TiVo is trying to be but better. Wouldn't you love to see TiVo jump on board?

http://www.logitech.com/en-us/1007/7139?WT.ac=gtv|7099|seethevideo_google


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## trip1eX

That video is bogus. 

First, Tivo has made it possible so you don't have to know what channel or what time your show is on for the last 10 years. 

Second, I know Google's press release says now you can have millions of channels by combining the internet with TV. Well that really solves the television hardship the video says we all suffer from. Not.

Also I think people watch internet on TV because it is free (and on-demand) more than they do because it is easy to find. And tv shows on the internet are only free because they are viewed as a secondary (really third or 4th) money stream. 

The real money (for content providers) comes from the cable and satellite companies. 

Anyway Google TV seems like the same thing Tivo is doing. Probably no coincidence Tivo released the Premiere before it was ready for primetime. 

Before I forget, do we really want to surf the 'net on our TVs? No one has made a great interface for that yet. 

I'd rather surf with an Ipad or laptop on the couch and watch TV on my big screen. It would be great if my iPad could talk to my TV to find content etc. OH wait, Comcast has an app for that in the works. Apple has their own Remote app too. Tivo needs to get on board this as well.

Imo Google is a bit naive about this thing. Good luck signing up those content providers and working with the cable companies.

edit: Hell this GoogleTV isn't even a DVR. I watched on Engadget and they were controlling a Tivo with some of the logitech/GTV software on the iPhone. This is just another box to buy. Basically Google search hardware.


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## [email protected]

There may be too much of an over-lap between the two products. But there is a possibility that the two can be melded. Between Google TV, Android and Chrome OS, they might provide much of the systems infrastructure that TiVo's software sits on. 

Currently the file system that TiVo uses seems very limited and inflexible. 
TiVo also appears to be spending resources on LAN driver performance -- to the point that they can only support a very limited number of actual network interface chipsets/devices. 

There also seems to be an inordinate amount of resources required to port to non-TiVo hardware (E.g., Direct TV, Comcast hardware etc.) Linux should be very portable, but Google's OS's may eventually be just as portable and provide a more comprehensive set of services. Further, TiVo's HD-GUI might be able to use some additional help on the systems software/API side. 

So there might be something to gain from TiVo's perspective. TiVo currently sits on Linux. So, it may depend on Google TV's ability to sit on Linux or Android/Chrome OS's ability to support Linux APIs and easily allow any required customization. Since both Android and Chrome OS are based on Linux, that may not be a major issue.

Additionally, Google TV and the rest of the Google suite support Flash. The TiVo HD-GUI is written in Flash (or a variant). So it may be fairly easy to port.

However, Google TV currently supports only Atom processors. TiVo hardware uses Broadcom chips. Google will probably need to port its code to Broadcom before anything happens. And TiVo will need to have the capital to invest.


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## RangerOne

I think it has a lot of promise. Of course, in it's first release it won't be the holy grail. The only real piece it seems to be missing is a DVR and it looks like it will attempt to integrate with TiVo on some level to get there for now.

It's only a matter of time till someone builds a GoogleTV box with DVR functionality built in.

The concept is compelling since it's an open platform where anyone can play. You buy the box and then you don't have to pay Google anything.


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## somecut

Isnt Tivo being run integrated with Google TV here in this video? 

engadget.com/2010/05/20/logitechs-google-tv-companion-box-includes-smartphone-apps-we/

Looks to be some overlap with the youtube, netflix, amazon on demand, etc...but i think it was mentioned in this thread that the google tv doesnt have DVR (although i thought i saw a non tivo looking 'record show' graphic. Tivo can be this DVR, and looks like it is in the above posted video.


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## RangerOne

It appears to be integrating with TiVo but it begs a lot of questions:

How is it integrating with Tivo?
It appears to be a Premier. Did they right some piece of software that talks to TiVo over the network? Will they be able to integrate with earlier Tivos?

I bet the earlier Tivos will integrate via IR blaster and I have doubts if an IR blaster experience will be seamless enough for folks (especially if you tivo is controlling your cable box with another IR blaster!)


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## bschuler2007

Yeah, they are really counting on IR blasters to work. Because it has the whole Logitech Harmony remote internals inside, this thing should be able to control almost anything. But, with that said, IR blasters are not reliable in my experiance. Good luck with that google... My take: You've taken the crappiest parts of the Premiere (web video search & apps that on a PC would take 10 secs, but from your couch an hour, etc.) and made it into a seperate box. Thanks but no thanks.


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## nexus99

If the Google box could talk to the Tivo over the network and understand what its recording... and then be able to control multiple Tivos... basically truning them into a quad tuner logical TIVO system... that would be HOT. I'd buy it. 2 tuners is not enough for me.


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## Series3Sub

RangerOne said:


> I think it has a lot of promise. Of course, in it's first release it won't be the holy grail. The only real piece it seems to be missing is a DVR and it looks like it will attempt to integrate with TiVo on some level to get there for now.
> 
> It's only a matter of time till someone builds a GoogleTV box with DVR functionality built in.
> 
> The concept is compelling since it's an open platform where anyone can play. You buy the box and then you don't have to pay Google anything.


Dish Network/Echostar has been partners with Google on this from nearly the beginning and the "missing DVR" will be all Dish Network ViP STB's. Best Buy is also a partner as well as a few others I can't recall, but the DVR that will have the Google TV is Dish Network's by software download sometime this fall.


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## jwagner010

Google TV will be successful because it is an open development environment. Its the Apps running across Google TV and Andriod Phones that will (over time) make this successful. Tivo needs to wake up and move away from its proprietary standards and get a real SDK out there with an App store and then adopt open standards like DLNA. By enabling a community Tivo could be successful but the track Tivo is on today leads to no where with their walled garden approach.


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## cranbers

Google is excellent at coming in to new markets, and causing a whole lot of chaos. GPS, browser market, phone os, even desktop os. Now its google tv.

This company has the money, publicity and market power to make almost anything successful, especially for a free product.

Everyone dismissed Android, and these big companies like microsoft, apple etc are paying close attention now.

Tivo better pay close attention, nothing has ever been a threat of this magnitude before.

We might be looking at the final decade of traditional over a cable based tv. at which point tivo being a single product company is going to die almost overnight.

This kind of one box front to back top to bottom solution needs to happen.

You don't need DVR capability when you have on demand. Put out a cheap box, no monthly fees and make it extremely easy to use. And some free unlimited marketing (google gets free press all the time, for almost everything it does).

And pit it up against a company who has limited resources that hardly makes any money, with a box that costs over a hundred dollars a year in service fees addition to the up front cost of the box. And what is the result?

You have a funeral to plan.

Google/logitech may have single hand idly just put tivo on death watch. Their only hope is to be bought out by microsoft or some other large company that can back it with a revenue stream and make it a better value, with no monthly service fees.

"We're working together with Sony and Logitech to put Google TV inside of televisions, Blu-ray players and companion boxes. These devices will go on sale this fall, and will be available at Best Buy stores nationwide. You can sign up here to get updates on Google TV availability."

RIP Tivo, you have been given the "you have stage 4 cancer" diagnosis.

http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/announcing-google-tv-tv-meets-web-web.html


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## JTYoung1

So was that video meant to impress me? It had very little information to even make a judgement. The blog is also light on details. 
Judging from the information available, TiVo appears to be the better product.


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## trip1eX

cranbers said:


> You don't need DVR capability when you have on demand. Put out a cheap box, no monthly fees and make it extremely easy to use. And some free unlimited marketing (google gets free press all the time, for almost everything it does).


Where's this On-Demand content going to come from? Thin air?

GoogleTV is vaporware until probably next year. I don't even think it is DVR software. It's really just a browser and search for your TV. Not sure that is going to take off. SEems to me most would rather surf on an iPad or laptop or iPhone/Touch while watching TV instead of surfing and watching on their TV.

Tivo seems to be doing enough in the video search direction and even has a nifty upcoming remote with a keyboard to keep them as alive as they've been the last few years which is to say on life support, but not any worse than usual.


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## hefe

trip1eX said:


> Where's this On-Demand content going to come from? Thin air?
> 
> GoogleTV is vaporware until probably next year. I don't even think it is DVR software. It's really just a browser and search for your TV. Not sure that is going to take off.
> 
> Tivo seems to be doing enough there and even has a nifty upcoming remote with a keyboard to keep them as alive as they've been the last few years which is to say on life support, but not any worse.


From Amazon, Netflix, internet video streaming, etc.

Release for the first devices was stated as Fall 2010.

I would LOVE for TiVo to get on board and integrate with GoogleTV. It would compliment the TiVo features very well.

I currently have a couple episodes of stuff that I want to catch up with that my TiVo missed or was pushed off due to space limitations. Right now, I'd find it on my laptop, connect the HDMI to my TV and watch it there. With Google TV, I'd just search, find, play...that would be cool.


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## orangeboy

cranbers said:


> Google is excellent at coming in to new markets, and causing a whole lot of chaos. GPS, browser market, phone os, even desktop os. Now its google tv.
> 
> This company has the money, publicity and market power to make almost anything successful, especially for a free product.
> 
> Everyone dismissed Android, and these big companies like microsoft, apple etc are paying close attention now.
> 
> Tivo better pay close attention, nothing has ever been a threat of this magnitude before.
> 
> We might be looking at the final decade of traditional over a cable based tv. at which point tivo being a single product company is going to die almost overnight.
> 
> This kind of one box front to back top to bottom solution needs to happen.
> 
> You don't need DVR capability when you have on demand. Put out a cheap box, no monthly fees and make it extremely easy to use. And some free unlimited marketing (google gets free press all the time, for almost everything it does).
> 
> And pit it up against a company who has limited resources that hardly makes any money, with a box that costs over a hundred dollars a year in service fees addition to the up front cost of the box. And what is the result?
> 
> You have a funeral to plan.
> 
> Google/logitech may have single hand idly just put tivo on death watch. Their only hope is to be bought out by microsoft or some other large company that can back it with a revenue stream and make it a better value, with no monthly service fees.
> 
> "Were working together with Sony and Logitech to put Google TV inside of televisions, Blu-ray players and companion boxes. These devices will go on sale this fall, and will be available at Best Buy stores nationwide. You can sign up here to get updates on Google TV availability."
> 
> RIP Tivo, you have been given the "you have stage 4 cancer" diagnosis.
> 
> http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/announcing-google-tv-tv-meets-web-web.html


Yawn.


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## brigont

JT,

Now who's making assumptions about what's a better product.

If Google's product could search and display Web Content, Local Network content available via my NAS or a remote backup, AND content recorded on my Tivo.. then it's already better than Tivo.

And - based on the video... I don't have to enter a seperate control area in order to search...

Only time will tell..



JTYoung1 said:


> So was that video meant to impress me? It had very little information to even make a judgement. The blog is also light on details.
> Judging from the information available, TiVo appears to be the better product.


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## trip1eX

hefe said:


> From Amazon, Netflix, internet video streaming, etc.
> 
> Release for the first devices was stated as Fall 2010.
> 
> I would LOVE for TiVo to get on board and integrate with GoogleTV. It would compliment the TiVo features very well.
> 
> I currently have a couple episodes of stuff that I want to catch up with that my TiVo missed or was pushed off due to space limitations. Right now, I'd find it on my laptop, connect the HDMI to my TV and watch it there. With Google TV, I'd just search, find, play...that would be cool.


See you wouldn't be able to do that for the same reason Hulu isn't on your Tivo. The content companies don't want you too to watch internet video on your TV. They have to protect the money streams they get from Satellite and Cable.

That was my point when I said, "Where is this On-Demand going to come from?" It ain't coming from free internet video like Hulu.

Google isn't going to be able to circumvent this.

And you can already go on Amazon On-Demand or iTunes and buy the show you missed and watch it on your TV.

btw, Comcast already takes care of your problem with something called On-Demand. It's free if you're a subscriber.


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## daveak

Maybe an alliance between TiVo and Google on this would benefit both - at least an alliance where Google TV could be an app on the Premiere. After all, Microsoft is suing TiVo (in relation to the AT&T DVR) and MS essentially has a built in competing DVR in their operating system. If Google aligned with TiVo to provide DVR functionality, they could better compete with MS and Media Center. Maybe.


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## trip1eX

brigont said:


> JT,
> 
> Now who's making assumptions about what's a better product.
> 
> If Google's product could search and display Web Content, Local Network content available via my NAS or a remote backup, AND content recorded on my Tivo.. then it's already better than Tivo.
> 
> And - based on the video... I don't have to enter a seperate control area in order to search...
> 
> Only time will tell..


GoogleTV isn't a product yet so you don't have to make assumptions about which is the better product.


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## hefe

trip1eX said:


> And you can already go on Amazon On-Demand or iTunes and buy the show you missed and watch it on your TV.


How? How do I get that on my TV? If I can't do that now, why is Google TV not a good option for me?

And I don't have, and will not consider Comcast.


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## JTYoung1

brigont said:


> JT,
> 
> Now who's making assumptions about what's a better product.
> 
> If Google's product could search and display Web Content, Local Network content available via my NAS or a remote backup, AND content recorded on my Tivo.. then it's already better than Tivo.
> 
> And - based on the video... I don't have to enter a seperate control area in order to search...
> 
> Only time will tell..


I was making a judgement on the information that was available. I also said that TiVo "appears" to be the better product, I did not definitively say that it was the better product. Right now Google TV is vaporware and that press release was very thin on details. I don't recall it even mentioning HD streaming or playback and I consider that a very important detail.


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## bschuler2007

This kinda crap makes me laugh. People get high hopes for a product launch only to find out later it is nothing like they thought it was. Really, I wish I could believe for a second what some of you think this is. But Tivo, Networks, etc.. have NOTHING to worry about.

You will probably NEVER be able to buy last nights episode of a show you missed to watch on your HDTV (unless it comes through cable company VOD).

Get over it. This isn't HULU, this isn't ordering last night's LOST episode, and this isn't a DVR. So what the hell is it? GMAIL, Googlemaps, etc.. on your HDTV, and a glorified TV Guide that will also search Youtube and VOD sources. THAT IS IT. 

So yeah.. wow.. Webtv is finally here (again). Funny thing is.. I can see the future. NBC will offer it's older programming for like $5 a month. CBS will do the same. Eventually, you'll be able to watch older not airing programs of all stations for about what you pay for cable today...lol.


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## jmoak

This is like the cable tv ads I've been seeing lately.
They tout "new" features (like programming your dvr on your cell phone) as if no one has ever seen them before.
I found myself answering the linked video with responses like:
"you have to figure out when it's playing..."
- No I don't.
"you have to change your schedule to fit your tv's schedule..."
- No I don't.
"watching video on the web because it's easier to find things..."
- No it's not!

And they're not things I've been able to do just lately, I've been doing these things for years now!

I'm glad the other guys are finally catching up, but jeeze... are there THAT many folks who've lived under rocks for the last five years? How many folks actually see these things as "new"?

Oh, well... I guess it can be argued that having a toilet indoors is a new thing to some folks in this world.
But at least we don't see bathroom fixture companies advertizing crappers as if NO ONE has ever seen one before.


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## hefe

jmoak said:


> I'm glad the other guys are finally catching up, but jeeze... are there THAT many folks who've lived under rocks for the last five years? How many folks actually see these things as "new"?


Doing a search for content and having it delivered right to my TV instead of watching on a PC would be new for me, and for a lot of people.

Despite all the crapping here, I think it would be nice. And unless it's prohibitively expensive, I could totally see adding this to my entertainment setup.


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## trip1eX

hefe said:


> How? How do I get that on my TV? If I can't do that now, why is Google TV not a good option for me?
> 
> And I don't have, and will not consider Comcast.


Use your Tivo or buy a Roku. Buy an AppleTV for iTunes on-demand.


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## orangeboy

hefe said:


> Doing a search for content and having it delivered right to my TV instead of watching on a PC would be new for me, and for a lot of people.
> 
> Despite all the crapping here, I think it would be nice. And unless it's prohibitively expensive, I could totally see adding this to my entertainment setup.


As mentioned, TiVo Search Beta/TiVo Search Beta does what you want on the TiVo HD (Series3 and Series4) models. Search Amazon, Netflix, YouTube, play on TV.


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## hefe

trip1eX said:


> Use your Tivo or buy a Roku. Buy an AppleTV for iTunes on-demand.


Ah, buy this, buy that...

But Google TV would have no value? That makes no sense.


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## hefe

orangeboy said:


> As mentioned, TiVo Search Beta/TiVo Search Beta does what you want on the TiVo HD (Series3 and Series4) models. Search Amazon, Netflix, YouTube, play on TV.


And any other source a browser can access?

But again, since these are devices I don't have and would have to purchase, how would it not serve me to add Google TV to my current equipment?


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## trip1eX

hefe said:


> Ah, buy this, buy that...
> 
> But Google TV would have no value? That makes no sense.


The point was the ability to watch Netflix or Amazon on your TV is nothing new. Paid On-DEmand content on your TV without a cable or satellite subscription is nothing new. AppleTV is 2 or 3 years old now.

I've had the ability to buy content from Amazon and watch it on my almost 6 yr old SEries 2 Tivo for years now.

And the point is there are actual real products that let you do this today. You don't have to wait.

And the point was you're not going to be watching free TV on your TV with GoogleTV. Content Providers need to make money. Hulu isn't coming to your TV.

GoogleTV is just a search box and is vaporware until released.


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## jmoak

hefe said:


> Doing a search for content and having it delivered right to my TV instead of watching on a PC would be new for me, and for a lot of people.
> 
> Despite all the crapping here, I think it would be nice. And unless it's prohibitively expensive, I could totally see adding this to my entertainment setup.


If you don't have the ability to do those things now, certainly it would serve you to add Google TV (or something like Google TV) to your current equipment.

I'm not "crapping" the service, just how it's presented in the linked video, as if it had never been done before.

It's like a cable ad I use to see where the guy would hit the pause button on his new cable dvr then smugly turn to the camera and say, "You can't do that with a dish!"
At that point, I'd had my dtivo for about two years.

Sure it's nice, it's just not new.
I guess it is for some, though.

The service sounds great! It's the ad I was commenting on.


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## trip1eX

jmoak said:


> If you don't have the ability to do those things now, certainly it would serve you to add Google TV (or something like Google TV) to your current equipment.
> 
> I'm not "crapping" the service, just how it's presented in the linked video, as if it had never been done before.
> 
> It's like a cable ad I use to see where the guy would hit the pause button on his new cable dvr then smugly turn to the camera and say, "You can't do that with a dish!"
> At that point, I'd had my dtivo for about two years.
> 
> Sure it's nice, it's just not new.
> I guess it is for some, though.
> 
> The service sounds great! It's the ad I was commenting on.


It's not a video service either. It's a search box.


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## MichaelK

JTYoung1 said:


> I was making a judgement on the information that was available. I also said that TiVo "appears" to be the better product, I did not definitively say that it was the better product. Right now Google TV is vaporware and that press release was very thin on details. I don't recall it even mentioning HD streaming or playback and I consider that a very important detail.


I've seen 720p mentioned in several places so yep it does HD (at least 720). Also there was a whole lot more than a press release. They apparently demo'd it at their keynote address for their developer conference. And they put it from and center on the FIRST day before Android stuff was announced the second day. Check the net- there's video demos and lots more if you care to find out.

"vaporware" sort of implies this will never come to market. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

I think you're a bit off IF you dont think Google is going to pull this off at all.

If you are trying to say that second half of 2010 is optimistic then I'd surely agree it could slip a quarter into Q1 2011 but if you are trying to imply it's never going to show up you might want to look at what they have done with android in phones in the past 2.5 years.

They've leapfrogged EVERY OS but RIM for new phone sales in the US with no end in site to their momentum. Steve jobs is in such a panic that he turns into a cranky old man who has a tick and mutters something about porn every time the term "android' comes up.

If they think it's the thing to do then Google is going to have a product out there.


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## MichaelK

I'm not running to buy a logitech box, but i do think this is a problem for tivo.

I"ve got a pair of S3's and an S2 still in use. I was going to take advantage of the premier upgrade offers to get one or 2 of those, but the more i thought the more i waited. Now that google came out with this I'm just going to sit tight and see how this all shakes out. Until I see what Google does I'm not going to buy a premier that does nothing more than my S3's as far as function. Tivo now needs to give me a reason to continue buying tivo boxes besides a nice discount on a new box. If they can't pull that off and google comes up with something compelling first then tivo is in a bad place.

If Google adds DVR function to the thing- than what? Is ANYONE going to pay tivo a software licensing fee when they can get a free OS for their Tv's and DVR's from google? Just ask MS how many people are ponying up for Windows Phone licenses now that Android is free. 

Just my 2 cents.


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## ZeoTiVo

without DVR it is a great backup plan or fun web browsing box - but not a replacement.

now for people that are not already hooked into cable or sat - this is almost a must have box and if the yget what they want - why get anything else. Also for those dropping cable and sat - this could be the way to do it.

so I will wait for a functioning box - anytime I hear web browser on my TV I think yet another so so implementation - maybe Google has the people who can finally do it right?


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## MichaelK

trip1eX said:


> It's not a video service either. It's a search box.


it's more than just search- everything is new so who knows but i think google wants it to be more like an "app" box. Seems with HTML5 they can do amazing thing with "apps" accross all kinds of devices. It's more like they want CHROME to dominate and get it on everything. On your PC,on your netbook, on your tablet, on your android phone, and now on your TV. (Another big thing from the conference was google is creating an App store inside Chrome- and then they showed how with HTML5 you can run crazy stuff in a browser- apparently they showed an HTML5 lego starwars game that looked just like the one on all the gaming consoles)

The demo apparently had some amazing sports illustrated "app" as an example of what they can do with googles new app store. Full of embedded video, web polls, and whatnot.

Although personally I'm not sure I'm ever going to READ a magazine on my tv. The rest might be cool but if I cant read the actual text I dont know that there's a point...

To me it looks like it's what tivo wants to do with their "apps" on the premiere just that google can kill them on the developer front (there's already 50,000+ apps in the android market and supposedly many will just work on google tv). But unless google can come up with DVR functionality to go with it then it's just another box I need to add and for me my DVR is my primary box.

here's a link to the SI demo- Doesn't impress me too much...
http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/20100519/video-sports-illustrated-shows-off-a-google-ready-magazine/


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## hefe

MichaelK said:


> I've seen 720p mentioned in several places so yep it does HD (at least 720). Also there was a whole lot more than a press release. They apparently demo'd it at their keynote address for their developer conference. And they put it from and center on the FIRST day before Android stuff was announced the second day.


Actually, they did the Google TV stuff in the second half of the second day keynote after Android...I was watching. 

But yes, they demoed actual working equipment. (When the bluetooth in the conference hall wasn't knocking out their wireless keyboards.)


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## ZeoTiVo

MichaelK said:


> here's a link to the SI demo- Doesn't impress me too much...
> http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/20100519/video-sports-illustrated-shows-off-a-google-ready-magazine/


HTML5 and so forth will be a very cool thing but this definitely still fits in the they do not get it category

I have no desire to read a magazine on my TV


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## cranbers

You guys do understand google is planing to put this inside sony tv's Blue Rays and third party boxes. It's free with an app store to increase features and supports open source with a fully functional web browser. What other product in then market does all that with google money and marketing power behind it? 

At the very least I am happy to see some competition in this space. What matters is if the general public catches on. And if this is in their tv and has the google name on it and is easy to use without service fees. How can that be ignored. 

This isn't vapor ware they have announced a ship timeframe of this year with logitech. The research is done and they are committed with logitech for the set top box and Sony for tvs etc.


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## bschuler2007

JEEZ.. here's a hint folks.. buy a $50 HDMI equiped gfx card from ATI, a HDMI cord, and you can "Google box on the cheap" your TV right now! Plus, you won't be limited by app availability.. you'll have it ALL! 

Then you can do all the cool stuff.. like squint while u try to read your e-mail. Look at maps before you run out the door and get lost. Oh then they have CHAT.. yippee.. annoy everyone who ever thought over hearing people on Cellphones was bad. Now you can't watch tv cuz sis wants to talk to her boy friend at 1 word every 4 minutes. Yeah! Get this and many more useless apps you can't live without.

Bored with HD TV? Why not wait 20 minutes to watch a poorly shot HD Youtube video of a cat chasing a sock? Wait 20 more minutes, and you can watch something else. Wow! Entertainment for the whole family (videos may be objectionable).

Best google app I foresee.. Chat Roulette w/ video camera. Cannot wait to show my stuff on YOUR big screen. 

How did we all live without this stuff? 

Seriously.. this thing is NOT A DVR.. it is just crappy web apps and issue of tv guide. Get a grip.


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## hefe

What a lack of vision. And the iPhone was just a cellphone. Apps couldn't possibly make a difference.

I can envision lots of cool possibilities that don't even exist yet. Even with the very basic utility of extending internet content to my TV in an easy and integrated way, with using my smartphone as a remote or a voice input device, that could easily be enough to warrant having a device like this assuming it's not cost prohibitive. But add in the possibilities that come with the app development and open sourcing of the platform and I'm quite interested in what could happen.

For some I guess cobbling together a solution with a long HDMI cord to a video card gets them where they want to be. More power to you...that's not for me.


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## bschuler2007

Iphone, with GPS and internet on the go.. I get. This thing.. I stand behind my comments above. It just blows chunks and will live shorter then WebTV did. Heck, even your beloved Apple admits this type of device is virtually useless and that it's AppleTV is not a real or serious product. Doesn't Steve Jobs have vision?


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## ZeoTiVo

hefe said:


> What a lack of vision. And the iPhone was just a cellphone. Apps couldn't possibly make a difference.


it is one thing to play with apps on a portable device like iPhone or iPad -- it is entirely another thing to bother with apps on the TV. To use them there they have to be useful and lot more compelling to make me hold off watching my recorded LOST episode or hold off picking from a dozen movies while I do some app thing.

If it was built into the TV I just bought, I am sure I would check out everything it had and even, dare I say it, google 'google TV' to find out anything else about it. I ma just not coming up with many compelling apps for the big screen other than bringing me more media - and you tube is like a 5% of our media thing whne we look for specific things.


----------



## hefe

bschuler2007 said:


> Iphone, with GPS and internet on the go.. I get. This thing.. I stand behind my comments above. It just blows chunks and will live shorter then WebTV did. Heck, even your beloved Apple admits this type of device is virtually useless and that it's AppleTV is not a real or serious product. Doesn't Steve Jobs have vision?


_My_ beloved Apple? 
Clearly you do not know me.

Steve Jobs also said no one would want to watch video on a small screen when asked if iPods would get video.

I just love how people can know that something who's potential is only just being defined won't work.


----------



## mikerr




----------



## bschuler2007

LMAO, Funny!


----------



## hefe

I like the original version:


----------



## trip1eX

MichaelK said:


> I've seen 720p mentioned in several places so yep it does HD (at least 720). Also there was a whole lot more than a press release. They apparently demo'd it at their keynote address for their developer conference. And they put it from and center on the FIRST day before Android stuff was announced the second day. Check the net- there's video demos and lots more if you care to find out.
> 
> "vaporware" sort of implies this will never come to market.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
> 
> I think you're a bit off IF you dont think Google is going to pull this off at all.
> 
> If you are trying to say that second half of 2010 is optimistic then I'd surely agree it could slip a quarter into Q1 2011 but if you are trying to imply it's never going to show up you might want to look at what they have done with android in phones in the past 2.5 years.
> 
> They've leapfrogged EVERY OS but RIM for new phone sales in the US with no end in site to their momentum. Steve jobs is in such a panic that he turns into a cranky old man who has a tick and mutters something about porn every time the term "android' comes up.
> 
> If they think it's the thing to do then Google is going to have a product out there.


PHones are a different story. PHones are much more of a proven market and Apple paved the way for what Android is doing.

A box for the TV? Apple hasn't been successful there. Tivo is barely keeping afloat. WebTV and MSTV never worked for MS. Replay TV went out of business. I don't think Moxi is lighting in the world on fire.

So at this point GTV is vaporware in the sense that its success all depends on somebody making an app for it that will make us all see the light. It's all vaporware in the sense that the hype from some on GTV this far in advance without seeing it do anything 'cept control a Tivo or play a Facebook app or browse the 'net could easily never come to fruition.

Google's talking points really raise the red flags for me.

Google says content is difficult to find. I say bullcrap. It's pretty dam easy to find content with a DVR. You don't need Google-quality search to find video content. If that's their selling point then they've got problems.

Also bullcrap is Google saying this and then also touting that it will give us millions of channels. What are these millions of channels? Grainy YouTube videos? And I still have a difficult time reconciling millions of channels and Google also saying content is difficult to find. I guess content might just be difficult to find if you're going to dump millions of channels on us. 

And I don't think consumers want millions of channels. It would take you 600 years to get through millions of channels if you looked at 10 new channels a day.

The other problem is the content provider & cable/satellite company obstacles.


----------



## hefe

trip1eX said:


> PHones are a different story. PHones are much more of a proven market and Apple paved the way for what Android is doing.


Nobody knew smartphones would take off the way they did until Apple provided the platform for Apps. Hell, they didn't even do that right away, took about a year.

Point is, nothing is ever proven until it's done. I don't envy the cynicism or lack of imagination I'm reading in here. This is an open platform like nobody's done before. The first partners get a head start, but then it gets open sourced, and anybody can build it in. Once it's open and dirt cheap, it will just be a part of lots of equipment. I have no doubt that people will find interesting ways of using the technology that we haven't even thought of yet. I had no idea several years ago that I could turn the lights on and off in my house with my phone, or sync notes to a web service, or geocache. Probably would have had people say, why do you need to do that with your phone...?

I look forward to the possibilities.


----------



## MichaelK

trip1eX said:


> PHones are a different story. PHones are much more of a proven market and Apple paved the way for what Android is doing.
> 
> A box for the TV? Apple hasn't been successful there. Tivo is barely keeping afloat. WebTV and MSTV never worked for MS. Replay TV went out of business. I don't think Moxi is lighting in the world on fire.
> 
> So at this point GTV is vaporware in the sense that its success all depends on somebody making an app for it that will make us all see the light. It's all vaporware in the sense that the hype from some on GTV this far in advance without seeing it do anything 'cept control a Tivo or play a Facebook app or browse the 'net could easily never come to fruition.
> 
> Google's talking points really raise the red flags for me.
> 
> Google says content is difficult to find. I say bullcrap. It's pretty dam easy to find content with a DVR. You don't need Google-quality search to find video content. If that's their selling point then they've got problems.
> 
> Also bullcrap is Google saying this and then also touting that it will give us millions of channels. What are these millions of channels? Grainy YouTube videos? And I still have a difficult time reconciling millions of channels and Google also saying content is difficult to find. I guess content might just be difficult to find if you're going to dump millions of channels on us.
> 
> And I don't think consumers want millions of channels. It would take you 600 years to get through millions of channels if you looked at 10 new channels a day.
> 
> The other problem is the content provider & cable/satellite company obstacles.


well if you redefine vaporware like that than I would actually agree- if it's just search than who cares. But most people would say it's not vaporware when it shows up in TV's and tle logitech box at the end of the year- even if it's just crappy search. What you are describing is a failed product- which very much may well be what happens (see the nexus 1's new marketing plan that google tried....). Depends on what they show up with. I'm not running to buy one. But i'm not writing them off either.

The only reason why phones are a proven thing is becuase Apple stepped up and showed everyone what you could do. I've had smartphones for years with winblows and palm os' and although there were apps a plenty what apple has taught everyone with the app store is a whole different world. And yes android say apples light and basically did the same.

But Who's to say that google can't do the same thing to tv that apple did with phones? Again I'm not betting for it, but i woouldn't bet against them.

Also FYI DISH is already on board and the first box will somehow integrate with DISH's current DVR's if I understand correctly.


----------



## trip1eX

MichaelK said:


> well if you redefine vaporware like that than I would actually agree- if it's just search than who cares. But most people would say it's not vaporware when it shows up in TV's and tle logitech box at the end of the year- even if it's just crappy search. What you are describing is a failed product- which very much may well be what happens (see the nexus 1's new marketing plan that google tried....). Depends on what they show up with. I'm not running to buy one. But i'm not writing them off either.
> 
> The only reason why phones are a proven thing is becuase Apple stepped up and showed everyone what you could do. I've had smartphones for years with winblows and palm os' and although there were apps a plenty what apple has taught everyone with the app store is a whole different world. And yes android say apples light and basically did the same.
> 
> But Who's to say that google can't do the same thing to tv that apple did with phones? Again I'm not betting for it, but i woouldn't bet against them.
> 
> Also FYI DISH is already on board and the first box will somehow integrate with DISH's current DVR's if I understand correctly.


Well by your definition Google could just release a pile of poo and call it GTV and then no one could say it was vaporware. It is a failed product. They released something.

Anyway it's semantics. Failed product. Vaporware. End result is the same. It was all hype and talk.

DISH on-board? So? Wake me when there is a product. WE don't know what Google pitched DISH. We don't know what DISH agreed to. WE don't know when the GTV download for DISH will happen. WE don't know how well it will work. Or anything.

Corporate talk is a dime a dozen.

The reality though is what can this product possibly do that I can't do already or would want a product to do? And what can it do to overcome the cable/satellite/content provider stranglehold?

So far I've seen that GTV can let me control my Tivo from another box. My reaction is to roll my eyes. Don't care about that. My remote works fine.

Google says content is hard to find. I don't think so. It's pretty easy to find on Tivo.

Google says they are adding millions of channels. ? What are these millions of channels? Am I supposed to be excited because I can get shtty internet video on my big screen TV? I'm not.

Google says GTV will have a browser. Great. Browsing on my TV. Just what I never wanted. Newsflash I have a computer to browse on and really I would prefer getting an iPad or netbook to browse while I watch TV on my big screen.

Google shows that I can search for a show and then find out the Tivo can record it or it is on my Tivo. Wow I can do that now.

I haven't seen any evidence GTV will give me any kind of On-Demand programming via the internet other than what I can already get in the form of Amazon-On-Demand (pay per show) and Netflix streaming.

So yes I'm betting against them based on what I know about the product today.

Could turn out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but anyone promoting that argument has to do more than say "They could do it. You never know."


----------



## trip1eX

hefe said:


> Nobody knew smartphones would take off the way they did until Apple provided the platform for Apps. Hell, they didn't even do that right away, took about a year.
> 
> Point is, nothing is ever proven until it's done. I don't envy the cynicism or lack of imagination I'm reading in here. This is an open platform like nobody's done before. The first partners get a head start, but then it gets open sourced, and anybody can build it in. Once it's open and dirt cheap, it will just be a part of lots of equipment. I have no doubt that people will find interesting ways of using the technology that we haven't even thought of yet. I had no idea several years ago that I could turn the lights on and off in my house with my phone, or sync notes to a web service, or geocache. Probably would have had people say, why do you need to do that with your phone...?
> 
> I look forward to the possibilities.


Exactly. Nothing is ever proven until it's done. Let's wait until we see some actual GTV product on the shelf before drinking the kool-aid.

BEcause from the talking points I've seen on GTV it looks like a failure as a mass market product. If you think it's going to be a success please give detailed reasons why. Not just "I look forward to possibilities." EVeryone looks forward to possibilities. Everything has potential.

I don't think not believing corporate talking points is cynicism either. I'm just saying show me


----------



## hefe

I'm not even arguing the point of whether it will be a "success or failure." All I'm talking about is my opinion about how interesting the idea is to me, and that I think this will become something useful , convenient and fun. I don't need to convince anyone else, especially those who refuse to think outside the box.

Every Google product that I use has unique usefullness and features that I can't get elsewhere. I like the way they do things, and I think they will be able to give me something I'll enjoy.

I hear all the blah blah about how we can do all this already, and it's just not true. I don't have equipment that can, so this will be an option that can get me there, plus do a lot more.

You're entitled to your pessimism.


----------



## orangeboy

hefe said:


> ...I hear all the blah blah about how we can do all this already, and it's just not true. I don't have equipment that can, so this will be an option that can get me there, plus do a lot more...


Just because you don't own models that can't do it, doesn't mean that the technology doesn't exist today. Look at the capabilities of the Series3 and Series4 models of TiVo!


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## tbearski

If the tools are in place and something works great but not everyone is jumping on it, and you know your idea could improve on a so-so product and you have the capital then one option is to buy it up. The only way Google will succeed with this is to buy Tivo! I really don't know if "Google" does this? Buy whatever they feel is necessary to make more money!


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## hefe

orangeboy said:


> Just because you don't own models that can't do it, doesn't mean that the technology doesn't exist today. Look at the capabilities of the Series3 and Series4 models of TiVo!


Just because other stuff can do some of these things doesn't mean I wouldn't find a box that integrates these functions and adds other functionality something I'd like.

How well do the Series3 and 4 work with DirecTv, anyway?

I find searching for things on my TiVo pretty painful. I was looking for a hockey game the other day because it wasn't on the channel I expected. I looked at the other channels I thought it might be on. Couldn't find it. Decided to use a wish list. The process of creating a simple wishlist to find something is horrible. Clicking around letter by letter to add your keywords, going through the category menus and then waiting for a response... I mean, it's fine for setting up something that sits there and autorecords over time, but to do an immediate search right now? Horrible. Same with my Blu-Ray player that can play YouTube vidoes. There have been times that I wanted to show someone something from there, and going through the steps to get there is ridiculous. It's better than not having it, but in light of a better option, I'll take the easier search.


----------



## bschuler2007

Slight change of subject:
Well one thing NOT brought up here.. is Google's anti-privacy acts. Google is well known for tracking users searches, moves, etc, much more than most, if not all, other internet companies and keeping longtime logs of such for analysis.

It will be interesting to see if they promise not to hand over everything you do on this box to anyone who pays them $5 OR if that is where the real value to Google is. 

And to keep to point, I am not talking Google's work with the NSA either. The Government can (spy) do what the government can do. I am referring strictly to non-government entities reading what you watch, record and search for.


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## orangeboy

hefe said:


> Just because other stuff can do some of these things doesn't mean I wouldn't find a box that integrates these functions and adds other functionality something I'd like...


My only problem is you saying this:


hefe said:


> ...I hear all the blah blah about how we can do all this already, and *it's just not true*...


----------



## hefe

orangeboy said:


> My only problem is you saying this:


Let me rephrase..."how we all can do this already." My word arrangement did not match my intention. Some of us can, some of us can't, based on what we have. And just because Chrysler, Ford and Chevy already make cars, that doesn't mean I might not want a Toyota.

I know you can jury-rig equipment together to do a lot of this, but that is a pain. I don't want my PC to have to be the front end for a media player. It's not easy to wire over and control. I'm not sure it has the horsepower to be reliable at it and do the other things it does anyway. I could figure it out, but my family wouldn't put up with it. And it is not as simple and seamless as this looks to be once it is set up.

And I can't just go and buy equipment that doesn't work with my service provider either. So this type of product is right in a gap that's appealing to me...as I said, even just for it's basic utility, but going forward for the types of things it would be capable of as well.


----------



## trip1eX

hefe said:


> Just because other stuff can do some of these things doesn't mean I wouldn't find a box that integrates these functions and adds other functionality something I'd like.
> 
> How well do the Series3 and 4 work with DirecTv, anyway?
> 
> I find searching for things on my TiVo pretty painful. I was looking for a hockey game the other day because it wasn't on the channel I expected. I looked at the other channels I thought it might be on. Couldn't find it. Decided to use a wish list. The process of creating a simple wishlist to find something is horrible. Clicking around letter by letter to add your keywords, going through the category menus and then waiting for a response... I mean, it's fine for setting up something that sits there and autorecords over time, but to do an immediate search right now? Horrible. Same with my Blu-Ray player that can play YouTube vidoes. There have been times that I wanted to show someone something from there, and going through the steps to get there is ridiculous. It's better than not having it, but in light of a better option, I'll take the easier search.


GTV ain't going to solve your problems unless you buy new hardware.


----------



## hefe

Actually, I retract part of that retraction...if somebody could tell me how I could use my Droid or iPod to type in the queries for searches with current equipment, I'd appreciate it, because I'd really like to do that.


----------



## hefe

trip1eX said:


> GTV ain't going to solve your problems unless you buy new hardware.


Not for the example I gave.


----------



## trip1eX

hefe said:


> Actually, I retract part of that retraction...if somebody could tell me how I could use my Droid or iPod to type in the queries for searches with current equipment, I'd appreciate it, because I'd really like to do that.


TV Guide! GEt a TV Guide app for your Droid. Search that for your program then flip the channel.

You can always find a TV Guide on the 'net too. And search that.

For direct control, you'll need a specialized app. Whether or not one exists and works with your equipment well you'll have to find that out. Why not use Google and search for it?


----------



## trip1eX

hefe said:


> Not for the example I gave.


Yes for all the examples you gave.

Old slow DTV Tivo box won't get faster with GTV.

GTV won't let you avoid typing in search terms letter by letter unless you buy a device that works with your DTV box. This is why DISH said they will have GTV in there boxes once Logitech comes out their box. The Logitech box is a harmony remote with GTV in it.)

YOur BR player will not get faster with GTV either.

So either way you slice you'll need another piece of hardware otherwise you'll have the same problems.


----------



## hefe

trip1eX said:


> TV Guide! GEt a TV Guide app for your Droid. Search that for your program then flip the channel.
> 
> You can always find a TV Guide on the 'net too. And search that.
> 
> For direct control, you'll need a specialized app. Whether or not one exists and works with your equipment well you'll have to find that out. Why not use Google and search for it?


I don't want to use several tools for a job that one could do better.

If I'm searching for web content to play on the TV, how do you suggest I key in the search?

You're really going out of your way to convince me that I don't want functionality that I want.


----------



## orangeboy

hefe said:


> Actually, I retract part of that retraction...if somebody could tell me how I could use my Droid or iPod to type in the queries for searches with current equipment, I'd appreciate it, because I'd really like to do that.


I don't see it happening with anything less than Series3 models. Series3 and above has a telnet interface that most (if not all) non-IR TiVo remote applications use.


----------



## hefe

trip1eX said:


> Yes for all the examples you gave.
> 
> Old slow DTV Tivo box won't get faster with GTV.
> 
> GTV won't let you avoid typing in search terms letter by letter unless you buy a device that works with your DTV box. This is why DISH said they will have GTV in there boxes once Logitech comes out their box. The Logitech box is a harmony remote with GTV in it.)
> 
> YOur BR player will not get faster with GTV either.
> 
> So either way you slice you'll need another piece of hardware otherwise you'll have the same problems.


Nope. The "function" will get faster. I won't need to search YouTube on my BluRay since the GTV will handle that. I can search across various media sources at once and then go to what I want. I can create "channels" that aggregate my content and select them directly. I'll discover content that wouldn't have shown up unless I went to each source and searched separately.

Even if I didn't buy another separate piece of equipment, the GTV as it has been described right now would give me functionality that I don't currently have, but would like to.


----------



## trip1eX

hefe said:


> I don't want to use several tools for a job that one could do better.
> 
> If I'm searching for web content to play on the TV, how do you suggest I key in the search?
> 
> You're really going out of your way to convince me that I don't want functionality that I want.


? YOu didn't specify web content in the post I replied to.

If you had I wouldn't have answered it.

But if you want to find your hockey game then try a TV Guide on your Droid.


----------



## hefe

trip1eX said:


> ? YOu didn't specify web content in the post I replied to.


But that's all part of the big picture. If it wasn't, then I'd be less interested in the product.


----------



## trip1eX

hefe said:


> Nope. The "function" will get faster. I won't need to search YouTube on my BluRay since the GTV will handle that. I can search across various media sources at once and then go to what I want. I can create "channels" that aggregate my content and select them directly. I'll discover content that wouldn't have shown up unless I went to each source and searched separately.
> 
> Even if I didn't buy another separate piece of equipment, the GTV as it has been described right now would give me functionality that I don't currently have, but would like to.


Except it all hinges on your ability to control your devices with the hardware you have at home right now as we speak. I say good luck on that.

Let me know Xmas 2011 if GTV has even come to your DTV Tivo box let alone what hardware you have to purchase to make it work like you want it to.

Keep on drinking the kool-aid.


----------



## trip1eX

hefe said:


> But that's all part of the big picture. If it wasn't, then I'd be less interested in the product.


? Twilight zone. YOu didn't mention GTV either though.

And I can't read minds.

I just thought it was a side question about using your Droid with current setup today. Having a TV guide on it would seem very handy to me if you have trouble finding a hockey game on your DTV Tivo.


----------



## hefe

trip1eX said:


> Except it all hinges on your ability to control your devices with the hardware you have at home right now as we speak. I say good luck on that.
> 
> Let me know Xmas 2011 if GTV has even come to your DTV Tivo box let alone what hardware you have to purchase to make it work like you want it to.
> 
> Keep on drinking the kool-aid.


How is being interested in a product, and excited to see what it is capable of drinking the Kool-aid? That implies that someone gives up all critical thinking and just jumps on a bandwagon to be part of a crowd or mindlessly follows. And I can assure you I do no such thing. I haven't bought anything yet. I reserve the right to decide to buy in when there's something to buy. If it doesn't live up to my expectations, I won't buy it. Seriously, you have to flat out reject something out of hand to not be a Kool-aid drinker? Or just agree with you, I guess.

I'm interested by what I see. I make no guarantee that it will be as good as I think it can be. But I think there is big potential in this platform, and as I've said many times, I look forward to seeing what it can do and what gets developed for it.



trip1eX said:


> ? Twilight zone. YOu didn't mention GTV either though.
> 
> And I can't read minds.
> 
> I just thought it was a side question about using your Droid with current setup today. Having a TV guide on it would seem very handy to me if you have trouble finding a hockey game on your DTV Tivo.


Good grief, what is the thread about? It's about GTV. I asked about using the Droid as an input device _like you will be able to with GTV_.

I've had several side questions, and they're all in the context of "this is something I'll be able to do with GTV, but I'm being told I can do all this stuff now without it, so tell me how I can do it."

I get it that you think there's no value in this. I think there is. Nothing either of us can say will change that.


----------



## trip1eX

YOu're drinking the kool-aid because the solution is a year away for you at best, you think you won't have to spend a dime, you think it will make your old hardware new and fast and you think it will let you watch TV shows you missed. 

Plus you don't even know if it will work on your old DTV box nor if there will be an extra charge to put it on.

Seems like kool-aid drinking to me.

No one said you couldn't be interested in it. But you seem a little overly interested in the possibilities of something far off in the future and a little too disinterested in today's solutions that actually do a few of things you have been complaining about even if those solutions aren't perfect.

Just my take. I hope it works out for you.


----------



## MichaelK

there's a difference between NOT being a Kool-aid drinker and being a knee-jerk rejecter...


----------



## bschuler2007

Knee-jerk rejection means you haven't even looked at the thing.
I think all these negative commenters HAVE looked at the thing and stated their informed opinion.

Every single hardware review site I have seen mentioning Google TV has the same opinion as the negative people here. They worry most about Google's history of invasion of privacy extending to the living room but also think it pretty much offers nothing new or useful so far. That said, they all take a wait and see on it as it develops. 

So that's also my opinion. It's no big deal but I'll wait and see. Who knows, if they add a hd cache, DLNA, Personal across web video sharing, Tivo embedd, Xbox360 embedd, Mame support, or something else.. ya never know.. it surprisingly might actually be useful. And who said I had no vision?


----------



## hefe

trip1eX said:


> YOu're drinking the kool-aid because the solution is a year away for you at best, you think you won't have to spend a dime, you think it will make your old hardware new and fast and you think it will let you watch TV shows you missed.
> 
> Plus you don't even know if it will work on your old DTV box nor if there will be an extra charge to put it on.
> 
> Seems like kool-aid drinking to me.
> 
> No one said you couldn't be interested in it. But you seem a little overly interested in the possibilities of something far off in the future and a little too disinterested in today's solutions that actually do a few of things you have been complaining about even if those solutions aren't perfect.
> 
> Just my take. I hope it works out for you.


Today's solutions don't work for me. (And they can't do _everything _this promises anyway.)

I'm not willing to string HDMI cables across my house. I'm not willing to add the equipment it would take to make the media center in my PC accessible and controllable from the living room. I'm not willing to add a complexity to my entertainment system that the rest of my family won't be able to use easily. I'm not willing to change my service provider (and pay a lot more) to get a DVR that does what mine doesn't.

And, I never said that I wouldn't have to spend a dime. But I'm pretty certain it would be a whole lot less than getting all the right current equipment to do everything now.

So I'm _too _disinterested in today's imperfect solutions, and _overly _interested in the possibilities of a future solution. How unreasonable of me...


----------



## hefe

bschuler2007 said:


> Knee-jerk rejection means you haven't even looked at the thing.
> I think all these negative commenters HAVE looked at the thing and stated their informed opinion.


I think much of the criticism has been based on looking at one thing GTV does and judging it invalid because other things do it too. Not looking at the entirety of the platform.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

bschuler2007 said:


> They worry most about Google's history of invasion of privacy extending to the living room but also think it pretty much offers nothing new or useful so far.


if Google TV offers me the same but with the idea I can log in on say a Hotel TV and see my cloud of stuff* then the invasion of privacy is no big deal to me.

* within reason - I would not expect to see my movies off my home movie server for instance


----------



## trip1eX

hefe said:


> Today's solutions don't work for me. (And they can't do _everything _this promises anyway.)
> 
> I'm not willing to string HDMI cables across my house. I'm not willing to add the equipment it would take to make the media center in my PC accessible and controllable from the living room. I'm not willing to add a complexity to my entertainment system that the rest of my family won't be able to use easily. I'm not willing to change my service provider (and pay a lot more) to get a DVR that does what mine doesn't.
> 
> And, I never said that I wouldn't have to spend a dime. But I'm pretty certain it would be a whole lot less than getting all the right current equipment to do everything now.
> 
> So I'm _too _disinterested in today's imperfect solutions, and _overly _interested in the possibilities of a future solution. How unreasonable of me...


You pretty much summed it up except you definitely don't want to spend a dime. You've said that a few different ways in this thread.

LIke I said. Good luck. I hope it works out for you.


----------



## hefe

trip1eX said:


> You pretty much summed it up except you definitely don't want to spend a dime.


It's a shame you can't read what's actually written. Oh well. Seems we're done anyway.


----------



## gonefishin

Hey all,

It's true, everyone does complain about Google's anti-piracy issues. But there still the most widely used search engine. People will use Google dispite some of their issues.

There are quite a few things that I like about Google, and so many more reasons that they frusrate me to no end.

I also believe Tivo has more than it's share of problems too...but I still like them enough to own a Tivo HD.

Motley Fool on Tivo/Google


----------



## MichaelK

To continue the discussion- I'll concede that googletv is vaporware and doesn't even exist, if it ever does show up it will be a complete failure, but not before they steal all my personal data (and dont forget logitech will be making an camera add on so google will know what I'm doing in my living room and probably will use facial recognition software to figure out who is there!)

Moving past that maybe we can talk about it in broader terms.

Tivo redid their whole product to work with flash and now it seems more and more that HTML5 is going to perhaps kill off flash (IN THE LONG TERM)- and now google is handing out their free android OS to work on tv platforms. That's an open platform with 50-60k apps and widgets at the moment and growing exponentially, and many of them will probably work on a google box if it ever were to be built (remembering that it's vaporware so I'll assume that wont even happen). Tivo waited forever to redo the old UI but if they would have waited another 6months or a year they could have jumped on board the google tv train (Althrough a train to nowhere as pointed out above). They could have either created a reference design that was a tivo built on googletv OS and let people put whatever widgets they want on it. Or they could have just created their own android app to run on any googletv hardware (should it ever see the light of day). Not exactly tivo's current business plan (seems they wanted to be the app store and not google)- but i wonder if that would have been a better way to go? 

Maybe it's not that googletv should work with tivo, but that tivo should work on googletv?

What do folks thing about that? 

Is it technically possible for tivo to create a tivo app to run on top of android? I'd assume so since they had nero tivo on pc's- but these google tv' devices will only have an atom chip- is that beefy enough along with whatever other video chips need to be in the device to run tivo? Would tivo need to run on devices with built-in hard drives- or is the current state of USB and drives that tivo could conceivable run on any google tv device by just plugging in a USB drive? (the logitech box has two USB ports and I think the current sony internet module has usb too so I assume the new tv's will also...)


----------



## bschuler2007

MichaelK,
Count me in the camp of "What if". Before Premiere's launch I had high hopes for a teamup of some sort, Tivo + Google or Microsoft or Apple, or something else. Because Tivo does DVR right, but really sucks at basically everything else (photos, music, etc).

That said, I don't see why they couldn't reload the Premiere boxes making them Android compatable Tivo boxes. They sure are powerful enough. That way they could fix their huge Flash gamble and give the new Tivo some guts. I'm sure Google would assist Tivo in this for nothing, just to get the install base.

As for using these Google Tv boxes to add Tivo functions. I don't think it would work. They aren't powerful enough. That is the main reason I think they will fail. They are underpowered to do anything but Music, Weather, etc..
Also USB 2.0 isn't fast enough for HD.
And memory sticks GB would cost ALOT more then HD GB.
Hardware wise alone, the GTV box is just a huge fail IMHO.


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## trip1eX

The cable companies should pitch in together and buy Tivo.


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## MichaelK

looks like boxee is making a googletv app.

http://www.candlerblog.com/2010/05/24/boxee-and-googletv-will-bring-content-to-your-tv/


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## MichaelK

bschuler2007 said:


> ....
> 
> That said, I don't see why they couldn't reload the Premiere boxes making them Android compatable Tivo boxes. They sure are powerful enough. That way they could fix their huge Flash gamble and give the new Tivo some guts. I'm sure Google would assist Tivo in this for nothing, just to get the install base.


interesting idea. Especially if google helped out that might be a possibility. Just not sure if tivo would try...



bschuler2007 said:


> As for using these Google Tv boxes to add Tivo functions. I don't think it would work. They aren't powerful enough. That is the main reason I think they will fail. They are underpowered to do anything but Music, Weather, etc..
> Also USB 2.0 isn't fast enough for HD.
> And memory sticks GB would cost ALOT more then HD GB.
> Hardware wise alone, the GTV box is just a huge fail IMHO.


Is it just the internal hard drive (and related chips) missing- or is the whole thing just too underpowered? If it's just the lack of hard drive, AND it gets a foothold (obviously a significant IF)- then a generation 2 with hard drive wouldn't be insane. Someone would probably build a dvr into it at some point even if it's not tivo.

Android phones are similar to Tivo- there's the open source OS half with closed source apps on top. With Android phones and tablets- the market, gmail apps, and some other stuff are closed. I wonder what will be open and what closed on google tv.


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## MichaelK

trip1eX said:


> The cable companies should pitch in together and buy Tivo.


cisco or moto buying it would be similar. I'm not sure why no one has tried.
...


----------



## trip1eX

MichaelK said:


> cisco or moto buying it would be similar. I'm not sure why no one has tried.
> ...


Price. Patent suits still tied up in court.

Just read Best Buy teamed up with Tivo and will offer Tivo in Insignia TVs. (edit: Tivo is offering their internet services software and not their DVR software on these TVs. )


----------



## daveak

MichaelK said:


> cisco or moto buying it would be similar. I'm not sure why no one has tried.
> ...


Poison Pill. And easier to steal patented technology and use it as your own instead of actually paying for it. See DishTV.


----------



## MickeS

http://www.clicker.tv and a PC already does what GoogleTV promises to do, as far as I can tell.


----------



## hefe

MickeS said:


> http://www.clicker.tv and a PC already does what GoogleTV promises to do, as far as I can tell.


That's a cool site. It looks like it does a part of what GTV promises. I will definitely try this out on the PC.


----------



## MickeS

hefe said:


> That's a cool site. It looks like it does a part of what GTV promises. I will definitely try this out on the PC.


Being a website that relies on other websites, it obviously has limitations when it comes to the UI, but it's a great site. The clicker.com site (the original version) is a more traditional webpage design, but same functionality. It has replaced, almost entirely, TiVo as a source of TV in my house.

If GoogleTV will be something similar but with the traditionally excellent Google UI implementations, they will have a hit on their hands, IMO.


----------



## MichaelK

trip1eX said:


> ....
> 
> Just read Best Buy teamed up with Tivo and will offer Tivo in Insignia TVs. (edit: Tivo is offering their internet services software and not their DVR software on these TVs. )


_first just want to toss out that Tivo software without the DVR is "vaporware" - development is underway. For tivo that can mean 2-3 years away and certainly could never see the light of day based on track record of announced items_ 

looks like there will be no google and tv hook up since tivo thinks they can sell their own googletv.

the google conference had to be a very bad day for tivo. Since tivo software without the dvr is the same basic gist as googletv - which is a vaporware failure- I can only imagine that tivo with a fraction of the resources and proven inability to do nothing fast isn't going to beat Google in this worthless failure market space.

Just from the apps point of view- tivo hasn't shown anyone their standards for apps- they haven't managed to add any to the premiere yet themselves (unless I missed something?) despite there apparently being some in beta (or at least imagined) from the press release screen shots. You walk in to the best buy at Christmas- and there's an app-less tivo insignia tv standing next to a sony tv with android and chock full of apps- anyone with an iphone or an android phone is going to at least be curious what apps mean on a tv.

Add in that tivo wants to get paid for their software but google tosses out theirs for free isn't going to help.

if google expands googletv to include dvr functions in upgraded devices tivo is in a bad race- they would almost need to partner with google before it's too late. That must be the 64,000 question in the tivo offices now- what is google thinking and are they going to add dvr at some point....

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=449462


----------



## MichaelK

MickeS said:


> http://www.clicker.tv and a PC already does what GoogleTV promises to do, as far as I can tell.


cool link- thanks


----------



## orangeboy

Tom Roger's view of Google TV:

QUESTION: What are your thoughts about Google TV?

RESPONSE: On the Google front, it really is a real contrast with what Premiere represents. Premiere represents a one-box solution. You get your linear television service, you get your broadband service, and you get that all in a single interface, single search, single remote, all of the benefits of having everything available in a single box, single approach.

Google TV really represents a two-box approach. You have your operator box and in addition to that you have your Google box, and your Google box presumably provides broadband content.

We've seen that two-box solutions don't particularly work. I think Apple TV demonstrated the limitations that consumers have with wanting a separate box different from their primary television box for what they bring to the set.


----------



## trip1eX

INteresting. except there's a good chance ATV has outsold Tivo since its (ATVs) inception. 

CEO has a point about the 2nd box, but only because something like an ATV hasn't yet secured the content deals it needs to totally replace a cable or satellite subscription.

GTV, of course, wants to solve the 2nd box problem by having 1 interface across separate boxes which helps, but still they expect customers to do alot of setup. Hook up IR blasters for example. Program it. .....

And for what? So consumers can watch low-quality internet video on their big TV screens or rent movies from Amazon-On-Demand for $1 less than cable offers them or for $3 more than you can rent them from Redbox?

I was laying in bed last night watching tv in the dark and thinking what a pain in the ass it would be to sit there trying to search for a show every time I wanted to find a show. I couldn't imagine having a keyboard in bed to do that. 

I then decided to snoop more being the Comcast digital newb that I am still, and I discovered I can search my TV Guide on Comcast as it is. By title, and by category etc. 

And the DVR already provides me with a bookmark list. MUch of the content I am most interested in or regularly watch is on my DVR. 

It just seems to me Comcast (for example) is already positioned to render GTV pointless. 

And look at DirectTV. They have their own ON-DEmand feature via the internet hooked up to their HD DVR boxes. No need for GTV on this thing. They certainly don't want to let someone else onto their boxes so the someone else can siphon off $$$$ from DTV's money spigots.

Now this is all not to say I wouldn't welcome competition to Sat/Cable/etc. Cable is too slow to bring these features to market. With competition this won't happen. FIOS, for example, is all around here and my guess is that is why Comcast has the Tivo option out here and is offering some sweet deals lately like the $7.50 DVR/mo and Digital Preferred for $40 for 6 months.


However I think the content providers are the key. GTV isn't going to do anything unless content providers get on board internet distribution on the same level as they do with cable/satellite distribution.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

MichaelK said:


> Add in that tivo wants to get paid for their software


I have seen nothing to indicate that TiVo expects any kind of sub fee for the software on the TV. It is a different beast so the DVR business model does not even begin to apply


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## GoOrienteering

trip1eX said:


> ... Before I forget, do we really want to surf the 'net on our TVs? No one has made a great interface for that yet. ...


Yes, I want to surf the internet on my TiVO.
Then I could watch Hulu when TiVo did not record the season finale of my favorite show as happened this week.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

GoOrienteering said:


> Yes, I want to surf the internet on my TiVO.
> Then I could watch Hulu when TiVo did not record the season finale of my favorite show as happened this week.


Hulu could easily block you seeing Hulu in a browser running on the TiVo - they have done it for every other device like the PS3 etc..


----------



## MichaelK

orangeboy said:


> Tom Roger's view of Google TV:
> 
> QUESTION: What are your thoughts about Google TV?
> 
> RESPONSE: On the Google front, it really is a real contrast with what Premiere represents. Premiere represents a one-box solution. You get your linear television service, you get your broadband service, and you get that all in a single interface, single search, single remote, all of the benefits of having everything available in a single box, single approach.
> 
> Google TV really represents a two-box approach. You have your operator box and in addition to that you have your Google box, and your Google box presumably provides broadband content.
> 
> We've seen that two-box solutions don't particularly work. I think Apple TV demonstrated the limitations that consumers have with wanting a separate box different from their primary television box for what they bring to the set.


translated- when google adds a DVR and if the FCC gets around to the home gateway google will eat our lunch.


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## MichaelK

ZeoTiVo said:


> I have seen nothing to indicate that TiVo expects any kind of sub fee for the software on the TV. It is a different beast so the DVR business model does not even begin to apply


no sub fee. I'm talking license fees (or bartering- probably what the best buy deal is) from the hardware vendors. You think that they will give it to anyone who wants to install it on their hardware for Free? Google hands out android for free- just so you will use all their apps (which are also free to the hardware vendor).

If Tivo isn't charging the hardware vendors for their software then exactly how do they make money with this new endeavor? You think the commissions they might be getting from amazon (and whoever else) along with ad revenue and viewing metrics is going to keep them in business? Personally I dont- but hey maybe I'm wrong. But they can't make a profit with those ancillary streams even with sub fees.


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## BIGELLOW

It seems like the majority of users posting in this thread are TiVo lovers who feel threatened enough by Google TV to want it to fail.

On one hand you have those saying the equivalent of "I like pickles... I sure hope my local store will sell pickles soon." and then you have the other side saying, "Pickles are gross... there's no reason your local store should ever sell pickles."

The fact of the matter is, existing TiVo owners have seen what Google TV can do and they want this functionality for themselves. So, as a natural extension of this desire, they wish TiVo would integrate with Google TV, to make things even better.

How hard is that for some people to understand? There's no use in telling people, "no, you don't really want that feature" because then you're just trying to tell people what they do and don't like based on your own personal preferences.

Some have said they really don't want to play games on their televisions. Yet, TiVo has games. My wife plays that colored ball one all the time. From the moment they made it available, she keeps asking "When are they going to make more games?" It's like TiVo was onto something, then dropped the ball. Sure, maybe not 100% of their fan base is playing games, but are these the only things they are willing to support?

I absolutely love TiVo and absolutely refuse to use the local cable company's own DVR system, even if it would be ultimately cheaper for me. However, here are the things I don't like:

1) Why are there so many steps involved to add a channel to my favorites and view only those channels? I shouldn't have to change a "view" each time I want to do this, then leave my other family members in a state of confusion when they're trying to find *their* favorites and not just *mine*.

2) Why do I have to hit so many buttons just to begin a search? First, the TiVo button. Next, I have to navigate to the "Find Programs" item. That's another two button presses to navigate the menu. I'd use the feature a whole lot more if I could just hit one key to instantly bring up search.

3) Why do I need to stop watching current show to perform a search? I multi-task all the time. I am often on my laptop while my favorite television programs are on TV. Why can't I search for a program my wife wants added to the season pass without having to completely block the program I'm watching?

4) Why can't the TiVo just pay attention to the stations I watch most often, and automatically add these channels to favorites, then give me one-button access to this list of favorite channels?

5) Why can't I write a simple application on my computer and instantly make this available in the TiVo system without me needing to jump through a bunch of hoops? Why can't I then make my application available to the community of TiVo users and let them add my application to their own systems?

6) There are plenty of times when I am watching a show, something reminds me of a video I saw on YouTube, and I want to share it with my wife. Currently, I need to pause the show we are watching, grab my laptop, find the video, show her the video on my laptop, then when we're finished laughing, I un-pause the show on TV and move on. Alternately, I can watch the video on the TiVo, but I am so many button presses away from doing so (at least 3 or 4 before I can even begin typing the keywords) that I'd rather not bother.

7) Why can't I do a keyword search on the TiVo and have it give me results from the various channels I subscribe to *with* results found in Netflix *and* results from Amazon *and* results from YouTube? YouTube has been supporting full movie and tv show rentals these days... and if a movie is available for free through Netflix, I'd rather go with that then rent it through Amazon... but if it's on HBO in 20 minutes, I'd rather go that route... unless it's not on HBO until Friday. Instead, I have to hop around to different parts of the TiVo menu maze searching over and over again.

So, these little issues that I'd just dealt with over the years haven't been enough for me to ditch TiVo... and as others have pointed out, Google isn't trying to compete with DVRs like TiVo. They're trying to add to the experience... to provide easy and quick search (across multiple services simultaneously) without stepping on the toes of TiVo and the like. The "deal" they have with DISH is exactly this. Integration with the DVR data in DISH to be included in the common index. So, when you hit one button to initiate a keyword search, you find recorded programs... upcoming programs... etc... in addition to information found on the web and through media services like Amazon VOD. If TiVo would just make that one integration possible, that would be awesome. Even better would be if they were to release the full Google TV functionality in a future update, then I wouldn't need the Logitech device.

The other thing people overlook when dealing with the Logitech device is that it isn't JUST Google TV. It is also the "Harmony Remote" experience. I've got a controller for the PS3, a controller for the TV (I need to use the TV's controller to switch input since my TiVo remote cannot be programmed to do so for some reason), a controller for the audio system, etc... When I want to watch a Blu-ray, I need to use all three of these remotes. With the Logitech device, I will be able to hit a single button and boom, every device (maybe except for the PS3?) will be configured as needed to prepare for Blu-ray watching. The fact that I will be able to do this on my mobile phone (which is *always* with me) will be a bonus.

Everyone also complains about the idea of browsing the web or using apps on a TV, due to the screen size and the distance from the user. However, the same thing was said about phones before websites started making adjustments so that websites took the small screen real estate into consideration. I would imagine that, with Google TV, there will be a specific Gmail interface which will take advantage of the greater screen size, but will also increase the font sizes to make everything more readable. Another possibility is voice command. Imagine being able to just say to your TV "1600 pennsylvania avenue, washington dc" and have it bring up Google Maps and display driving directions from your home to the White House. Then say "send to my phone" and your phone instantly switches to Navigation mode as you walk out the door to your car. That's the kind of simplicity that is only possibly by getting this technology on televisions. Sure, you could boot up your computer to do this, but in many households the television is on more than the computer is. The act of booting up a computer takes longer than the act of turning on the television.

Maybe you don't like the idea of this... maybe you'd rather keep your computer live separate from everything else... but there are plenty of people who want as many devices in their home as possible to be "smart"... then to see what the developer community can really do to make all of these smart devices interact in ways we've never thought possible. I can't wait to start writing applications for televisions, car dashboards, video phones, etc... the only thing standing in my way are companies whose devices are starting to feel like "legacy applications" which can't quite keep up with the pace of the Internet.


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## BIGELLOW

It also intrigues me when people talk about plugging their laptop to their TV. Only technophiles do this. The average person is not going to do this. The average person can plug a single box to their setup following the pictures on a setup guide, or have their neighborhood computer guru come over and help, but they're not going to be adept enough to plug and unplug their computers from their TVs every time they want to see if a movie they want to watch might already be free on an Internet video site.

As for me, a technophile, I am often on my computer WHILE watching TV. During football season, I'm checking my fantasy football standings on the computer while watching a relevant game on the TV. While a TV program is on, I might be checking the family finances or chatting with a family friend. While a movie is on, I might want to check some info on imdb.com without disturbing the other family members who are watching the movie. In these cases, I want to still do computer stuff OFF of the TV. If I am using the computer to STREAM the program, then where does that leave me? Get another computer and dedicate it to streaming videos? That's a bit much, honestly. Also, even the act of plugging my phone into my computer is enough to drive me crazy... imagine how crazy I'd be if I had to plug even a single wire into a single device every time I was in the mood for a Netflix movie.

As you can imagine, a device like the Roku would be right up my alley. I've got one. However, I can't browse and search with it. I can only flip through all the programs I already added to my Watch Instantly Queue. They recently updated the software to make this better, but my Roku box died. It's plugged in, but it acts like it has no power. Not sure what happened.

So, the timing of Google TV couldn't be better. Why get a dedicated computer for my TV... or buy one of these devices that give me *some* of the stuff I want, but not all of it? Of course, if the Logitech device turns out to be $400, then forget it. If it's $200, I'd consider it. More than that, I'd have to think about it. $150, I wouldn't blink.

I'll likely never get rid of my TiVo. I will never go for a DVR that is cable-company branded, because I already pay them an arm and a leg just to get cable and Internet service as it is. However, if a DVR ever came out with Google TV built-in... and my TiVo died, I would seriously consider replacing it with the alternative. I've had two TiVos die on me. My current TiVo HD almost died (well, it was actually the external drive... for some reason, it didn't detect it anymore... several reboots and re-plugging in later and it finally sees everything fine again.)


----------



## trip1eX

GTV is a band-aid solution. Real problem is set top box is closed. We need a company like Apple to work with a TV service provider to make an "open" set top box much like Apple worked with ATT to bring the iPhone to market. Before that, cellphone service providers were pretty closed and their solutions were archaic.

#1 and #2 are nice. #3 you can do on a cable company DVR. The rest don't seem that mainstream.

The iPad seems like it would take care of some of the other things you want to do without having to dig out your laptop. Plus you can read books on it, bring it into your kitchen, take it on a flight, etc much like a laptop.


----------



## Scyber

BIGELLOW said:


> As you can imagine, a device like the Roku would be right up my alley. I've got one. However, I can't browse and search with it. I can only flip through all the programs I already added to my Watch Instantly Queue. They recently updated the software to make this better, but my Roku box died. It's plugged in, but it acts like it has no power. Not sure what happened.


If you have had the roku for a while, its probably the power supply. Does the light in front even come on when you plug it in? Unfortunately the originally power supply that roku used has been known to fail after a few years. If you have another comparable power supply (5volts, 2.5amps) you can try that. Or you can order a new power supple from roku:
http://shop.roku.com/Webpage2.aspx?WebpageId=2

Its around $15 shipped.


----------



## hefe

Apple and "open" in the same sentence.


----------



## trip1eX

hefe said:


> Apple and "open" in the same sentence.


iPHOne is sure alot more open than a set top box.


----------



## MichaelK

trip1eX said:


> iPHOne is sure alot more open than a set top box.


as long as you play buy all the rules...

I guess an "open" apple tv box wouldn't allow any adult content like the apple app store. You couldn't tune to channels that have content made by adobe. Or commercials from anyone besides apple.

Kidding aside- the FCC has much better ideas- not relying on ONE company to do anything. But creating an open infrastructure so anyone can hook into the system. Apple, google, tivo, whomever could hop in and consumers could have a choice of apple or whatever.


----------



## hefe

Actually Michael, you're not kidding at all. That is exactly what would come to pass.

Apple is the opposite of open. Although they give lip service to backing open web standards, they are in the business of pushing as much of their business to their very closed app store as possible where they control everything. They're even outlawing non iAd advertising in apps that run on their hardware.

The thing about Google TV and open...in 2011 they will open source the code for _anyone and everyone_.

It's just different business motivations. Apple wants to control everything and take a cut of all the transactions. Sell the hardware, sell the content, sell the advertising...and lock the consumer into their ecosystem.

Google wants to keep their advertising model going, and needs people not to be locked in to such a system. They would rather be available on anybody's hardware, through anybody's content...and they're willing to let there be a competition for the ad dollars, but the more places there are to consume content and services, the more revenue opportunities for them.

As a consumer, I prefer the model that offers more variety of choice.


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## orangeboy

hefe said:


> Actually Michael, you're not kidding at all. That is exactly what would come to pass.
> 
> Apple is the opposite of open. Although they give lip service to backing open web standards, they are in the business of pushing as much of their business to their very closed app store as possible where they control everything. They're even outlawing non iAd advertising in apps that run on their hardware.
> 
> The thing about Google TV and open...in 2011 they will open source the code for _anyone and everyone_.
> 
> It's just different business motivations. Apple wants to control everything and take a cut of all the transactions. Sell the hardware, sell the content, sell the advertising...and lock the consumer into their ecosystem.
> 
> Google wants to keep their advertising model going, and needs people not to be locked in to such a system. They would rather be available on anybody's hardware, through anybody's content...and they're willing to let there be a competition for the ad dollars, but the more places there are to consume content and services, the more revenue opportunities for them.
> 
> As a consumer, I prefer the model that offers more variety of choice.


You should evangelize your views to the ad haters in the other threads:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=450292
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=427025
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=423716
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=342193
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=428199
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=425951
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=376771
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=412766
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=332086
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=336940


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## MichaelK

orangeboy said:


> You should evangelize your views to the ad haters in the other threads:
> http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=450292
> http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=427025
> http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=423716
> http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=342193
> http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=428199
> http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=425951
> http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=376771
> http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=412766
> http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=332086
> http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=336940


not to get too far off topic, but i guess it concerns google...

how does the fact that apple blocks google ads (if you read the new rules it's basically a direct attack at google, and i think ms, while letting other competitors live on - FOR NOW) while Google allows anyone's ads, have anything to do with ads on the tivo?


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## hefe

Yeah, I didn't see that as the same issue really.


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## orangeboy

I read the post I quoted as accepting that an ad based model isn't so bad. The TiVo users in the threads I linked to seem to have a differing opinion. That's all. I don't own anything Apple, really never have, so I don't know the specifics to what's allowed advertising-wise and what's not.


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## CraigHB

At this point, GTV would be of little interest to me with its add-on approach.

I'm always looking for the simple one-box solution. Of all the options out there, I feel TiVo does that for me best, but still, there are things it doesn't do and probably never will. 

This is a good case for how much we, as consumers, need that interoperability standard the FCC is expected to put into place. Though, it could take years. Right now, we need several boxes strapped to our TV's to get the content we want. GTV is not going to alleviate that problem, only convolute it. I don't see what GTV is going to offer that would motivate me to add yet another box to an already crowded system.


----------



## hefe

CraigHB said:


> I don't see what GTV is going to offer that would motivate me to add yet another box to an already crowded system.


Well, that's true if you only consider the companion box. But GTV will be built in functionality in Dish network DVRs and Sony TVs to start. So if you're already a customer getting one of those, you don't need to add a box. And next year after it open sources, we'll probably see lots of equipment makers start to integrate it into their hardware that people would already be otherwise purchasing.


----------



## netserf57

CraigHB said:


> At this point, GTV would be of little interest to me with its add-on approach.
> 
> I'm always looking for the simple one-box solution. Of all the options out there, I feel TiVo does that for me best, but still, there are things it doesn't do and probably never will.
> 
> This is a good case for how much we, as consumers, need that interoperability standard the FCC is expected to put into place. Though, it could take years. Right now, we need several boxes strapped to our TV's to get the content we want. GTV is not going to alleviate that problem, only convolute it. I don't see what GTV is going to offer that would motivate me to add yet another box to an already crowded system.


the one thing I am looking for is a reasonable way to use my DVD ripped to my server.having to page through many movies suck. I have collected the metadata using MyMovies but TiVO provides no jukebox capability. GTV seems to hint at that possibility. I am in marget for a way to better use my library - do I get a Premier - or a Jukebox - or wait for GTV?


----------



## orangeboy

netserf57 said:


> the one thing I am looking for is a reasonable way to use my DVD ripped to my server.having to page through many movies suck. I have collected the metadata using MyMovies but TiVO provides no jukebox capability. GTV seems to hint at that possibility. I am in marget for a way to better use my library - do I get a Premier - or a Jukebox - or wait for GTV?


I think with using pyTivo or Streambaby you could slice and dice your collection into folders any way you wanted (alphabetic, by genre, other?) to get a manageable list.


----------



## BIGELLOW

Scyber said:


> If you have had the roku for a while, its probably the power supply. Does the light in front even come on when you plug it in? Unfortunately the originally power supply that roku used has been known to fail after a few years. If you have another comparable power supply (5volts, 2.5amps) you can try that. Or you can order a new power supple from roku:
> 
> Its around $15 shipped.


Yes, it's as if it's not getting any power at all. Thanks for the tip. I'll look into that.


----------



## Raymond Day

netserf57 said:


> the one thing I am looking for is a reasonable way to use my DVD ripped to my server.having to page through many movies suck. I have collected the metadata using MyMovies but TiVO provides no jukebox capability. GTV seems to hint at that possibility. I am in marget for a way to better use my library - do I get a Premier - or a Jukebox - or wait for GTV?


Press 2 on the TiVo remote and it will switch back and foth between folders and file type. Folder type makes it a lot easyer to find what your looking for.

That's if you saved your videos good in folders.

-Raymond Day


----------



## ZeoTiVo

netserf57 said:


> the one thing I am looking for is a reasonable way to use my DVD ripped to my server.having to page through many movies suck. I have collected the metadata using MyMovies but TiVO provides no jukebox capability. GTV seems to hint at that possibility. I am in marget for a way to better use my library - do I get a Premier - or a Jukebox - or wait for GTV?


use folders on the PC to organize the movies. I know PyTiVo will replicate that folder structure on the TiVo when listing them


----------



## vitocorleone

The Logitech Revue is supposed to sit between the DVR and TV in the connection chain and "interface" with a DVR via IR blasters. This seems... archaic, especially since the Tivo has USB ports.

What I'm most interested is being able to bookmark the websites that dont publish their content on any other service, such as Food Network, HGTV and Bravo. But they do put whole episodes on their own site. Stations like these are about the only reason we're keeping cable and we'd love to kill it (which, of course, would mean getting rid of the Tivo HD as well since there'd be no point to keeping it, which is sad, after being a customer for 5 years).


----------



## orangeboy

vitocorleone said:


> ...which, of course, would mean getting rid of the Tivo HD as well since there'd be no point to keeping it...


You don't watch any network television? Attach an antenna and keep recording.


----------



## vitocorleone

orangeboy said:


> You don't watch any network television? Attach an antenna and keep recording.


That's a good point. I guess it'll depend a lot on how much money I'm saving in other areas as to whether or not I'll keep paying Tivo ~$13/mo.

I do see in today's video tour on www.google.com/tv that DISH is mentioned and you can control your DVR via GoogleTV, but no word about Tivo yet.


----------



## hefe

Dish is one of the initial partners along with Sony and Logitech. Dish will have satellite/DVR boxes that integrate Google TV.


----------



## atmuscarella

Looks like Google is going to give people what they want. Full web access from a device that is not considered a computer. Plus they are going to include Android type apps. Basically a "smart phone" optimized to use your TV as the screen. 

TiVo could have done this with the Premiere, they could have built a web browser in it but they didn't because they still want to control what you can access on the web through a TiVo (I am assuming this has to do with revenue streams). 

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Not really hard to see someone building a DVR using Google TV as the operating system. 


P.S.: For all those out there that didn't like the few adds on your TiVo - I would steer clear - Google TV will have plenty of adds and there will not be any add blocking apps. .

Thanks,


----------



## trip1eX

atmuscarella said:


> Looks like Google is going to give people what they want. Full web access from a device that is not considered a computer. Plus they are going to include Android type apps. Basically a "smart phone" optimized to use your TV as the screen.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Not really hard to see someone building a DVR using Google TV as the operating system.


Don't think that's what people want though. I don't think they want full web pages on their tv screen.

I do think it will be interesting to watch it play out. Either going to be a homerun or a complete flop. Leaning towards the latter myself. I think GTV is something Google wants much more than consumers.

But I do think GTV on a Tivo or another DVR with cablecard is a much more attractive product than asking consumers to purchase an additional $200-$300 box and use an IR blaster.


----------



## MichaelK

http://www.google.com/tv/index.html


----------



## MichaelK

trip1eX said:


> ...
> But I do think GTV on a Tivo or another DVR with cablecard is a much more attractive product than asking consumers to purchase an additional $200-$300 box and use an IR blaster.


they seem to think you dont need or wont want a dvr with google tv. So they're just going to built it into tv's and figure people will be all set.

I guess if there's enough "apps" then a dvr isn't necessary but I dont see that being the case right off the bat. But who knows- maybe in a few years.

If they have an App for pretty much every channel or show then who needs to record.- for example in the android market right now there's a survivor app- you get all the episodes commerical free to stream to your phone for free (currently without commercials from what i read)- and then some background "bonus" features and whatnot. If there's a Hulu Plus app, netflix, mlb, nfl, discovery networks, etc etc (about 20 more times) , apps then a dvr isn't so important.

But I think the big picture is that you could totally throw away the middle man with "an app". Using howard stern as an example of business -> Stern's contract with siriusxm is over the end of the year. He also sells "howardtv" via on demand. Presumably several million people pay sirius 12 bucks a month basically just to get Stern. I have no idea how many people buy the HowardTV service (I think it's also like 12 a month) from ondemand. Stern is OPENLY talking about telling sirius to go screw and going it online on the internet. He's talked about making "an app" that costs 3 bucks a month. He'd get the whole $3 a month for himself - if only a million people bought it he'd make 3million a month. I have no clue but I'll guess a million a month for bandwidth and servers and the like and he'd still making 24 million a year. That's not some kid making 100k with a youtube channel- that's serious big business.

You can already stream MLB audio to a mulittude of devices- and buy MLB.tv on a pc. The NFL is working on something for tablets with verizon.

f you make an app for iphone,android, blackberry, google tv, appletv roku, and tivo you could reach a lot of people. Seems wise to me for google to get their toe in the water early rather then wait and be too late.


----------



## andydumi

vitocorleone said:


> I do see in today's video tour on www.google.com/tv that DISH is mentioned and you can control your DVR via GoogleTV, but no word about Tivo yet.


Watch this:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/20/logitechs-google-tv-companion-box-includes-smartphone-apps-we/

The Tivo is controlled by the Logitech box via ethernet IP control.


----------



## orangeboy

andydumi said:


> Watch this:
> http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/20/logitechs-google-tv-companion-box-includes-smartphone-apps-we/
> 
> The Tivo is controlled by the Logitech box via ethernet IP control.


It was interesting to see that when the guy first did "Watch TV", the input was actually on the Xbox, and not a TV tuner. He had to "show us again"...


----------



## wisny

Google TV announces more new partners:



> *
> Google TV lines up Netflix, Amazon, NBA, other partners*
> Updated 2h 10m ago
> 
> By Jefferson Graham, USA TODAY
> 
> Google TV is finally getting ready for its close-up.
> 
> On Monday, Google (GOOG)announced more partnerships and a new website  www.google.com/tv  for its platform for bringing the Internet to any TV set.
> 
> The first hardware products  a TV set-top box by Logitech (LOGI) and a Sony TV and Blu-ray player  are expected in stores by the middle of this month.
> 
> Google TV will launch with several content partners that will have smartphone-like "apps" and optimized websites that will bring added features to the TV and take advantage of the larger screen. Partners include Netflix (NFLX), Pandora, Amazon (AMZN), Google-owned YouTube, Turner Broadcasting, CNBC, the National Basketball Association, USA TODAY and the New York Times.
> 
> more ...
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2010-10-05-googletv05_ST_N.htm


Add TiVo to the list!! :up: :up: :up:


----------



## atmuscarella

wisny said:


> Google TV announces more new partners:
> 
> Add TiVo to the list!! :up: :up: :up:


I think you guys missed some of what was going on. The demo was basically a demo of Logitech's box more than of Google TV. The Logitech box appears to give you the abilities of a high end Harmony remote along with Google TV.

When the demo was controlling everything it was the Harmony remote functions of the box that were being showed off with a smart phone app not anything specific to Google TV. Not that this is a bad thing and may help justify the $2-300 cost.

Google TV is still just giving you "easy" access to Google search and the Internet.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

atmuscarella said:


> I think you guys missed some of what was going on. The demo was basically a demo of Logitech's box more than of Google TV. The Logitech box appears to give you the abilities of a high end Harmony remote along with Google TV.
> 
> When the demo was controlling everything it was the Harmony remote functions of the box that were being showed off with a smart phone app not anything specific to Google TV. Not that this is a bad thing and may help justify the $2-300 cost.
> 
> Google TV is still just giving you "easy" access to Google search and the Internet.


Yeah, that demo was definitely just a quick one off. Now if the Google TV could show us episodes of glee available online (say at network website) or from the TiVo DVR in one screen and then when one is picked the right setup is done to watch it - then they have something.
Note that a cable company DVR would likely not be able to provide that type of functionality


----------



## hefe

ZeoTiVo said:


> Yeah, that demo was definitely just a quick one off. Now if the Google TV could show us episodes of glee available online (say at network website) or from the TiVo DVR in one screen and then when one is picked the right setup is done to watch it - then they have something.


That's kind of the point. That's part of what it will do.


----------



## atmuscarella

hefe said:


> That's kind of the point. That's part of what it will do.


The only DVRs that there is any indication Google TV will be able to access/search so far are Dishnetwork's DVRs.


----------



## wisny

ZeoTiVo said:


> Yeah, that demo was definitely just a quick one off. Now if the Google TV could show us episodes of glee available online (say at network website) or from the TiVo DVR in one screen and then when one is picked the right setup is done to watch it - then they have something.
> Note that a cable company DVR would likely not be able to provide that type of functionality


THIS! This would totally be the bomb :up: TiVo and GTV - a match made in techie heaven 

I could watch my Syfy, USA, TNT, BBCA shows on their websites. Cable news and sports would still be tricky ... but it would be sooooo close to being able to dump cable. (With Netflix and/or Hulu plus available, too).


----------



## hefe

atmuscarella said:


> The only DVRs that there is any indication Google TV will be able to access/search so far are Dishnetwork's DVRs.


Oh right...I wasn't paying attention to the brand. Yes, at launch, Dish is the only one that will be fully integrated. Next year when the whole thing is open sourced, others will be free to incorporate the functionality directly.

For now, yes, I'd assume an existing DVR wouldn't be part of that integrated search. Unless that DVR maker were to develop some sort of an app that would track your recorded content and supply GTV online data to search against. I'll bet it's something that could be done, if they wanted to develop something like that.


----------



## trip1eX

MichaelK said:


> they seem to think you dont need or wont want a dvr with google tv. So they're just going to built it into tv's and figure people will be all set.


That could be. But actually GTV can be put into anything. Google doesn't care. IT's just no into dvrs because the cable/satellite companies don't want it on their dvrs and they are 90% of the market I bet. And Tivo is the other 10% and Tivo hasn't said anything about switching to that platform.

So that's why it's not on DVRs at launch. 



MichaelK said:


> If they have an App for pretty much every channel or show then who needs to record.- for example in the android market right now there's a survivor app- you get all the episodes commerical free to stream to your phone for free (currently without commercials from what i read)- and then some background "bonus" features and whatnot. If there's a Hulu Plus app, netflix, mlb, nfl, discovery networks, etc etc (about 20 more times) , apps then a dvr isn't so important.


Yeah problem is the content providers. They'll give you free stuff on your phone because you can't get that content any other way. IT's additive to them. Doesn't take away from cable or broadcast or DVD.



MichaelK said:


> But I think the big picture is that you could totally throw away the middle man with "an app". Using howard stern as an example of business -> Stern's contract with siriusxm is over the end of the year. He also sells "howardtv" via on demand. Presumably several million people pay sirius 12 bucks a month basically just to get Stern. I have no idea how many people buy the HowardTV service (I think it's also like 12 a month) from ondemand. Stern is OPENLY talking about telling sirius to go screw and going it online on the internet. He's talked about making "an app" that costs 3 bucks a month. He'd get the whole $3 a month for himself - if only a million people bought it he'd make 3million a month. I have no clue but I'll guess a million a month for bandwidth and servers and the like and he'd still making 24 million a year. That's not some kid making 100k with a youtube channel- that's serious big business.
> 
> You can already stream MLB audio to a mulittude of devices- and buy MLB.tv on a pc. The NFL is working on something for tablets with verizon.
> 
> f you make an app for iphone,android, blackberry, google tv, appletv roku, and tivo you could reach a lot of people. Seems wise to me for google to get their toe in the water early rather then wait and be too late.


Yeah for Google its a way to get a piece of the pie. No doubt about it.

For consumers though it's just a device that has a great idea, but that hasn't overcome all the hurdles in its way.

So basically it's a hurry up and wait for the mass market. Wait until the dominos start to fall and the set top box market is opened up some way, some how.

That's what we are all waiting for as far as TV viewing goes.

Open up that set box market and let the market decide how they want to view their content.

I do believe there is alots of innovation to be done in the space. IT's like when ATT used to control landline phones. You rented your phone ATT. That was your choice.

When they were broken up, bam, overnight you had a ton of choices. Sure before that I think ATT may have been offering more choice, but they did so at their own pace because they had no incentive to do otherwise.

Same difference with the cable companies and the set top box market. Maybe not quite the 100% monopoly ATT was, but close. Probably some sort of oligopoly going on between cable and satellite. You'd think if were true competition you'd see some more innovation in the set top box space.

Instead everyone has very similar channel packages etc.


----------



## trip1eX

wisny said:


> THIS! This would totally be the bomb :up: TiVo and GTV - a match made in techie heaven
> 
> I could watch my Syfy, USA, TNT, BBCA shows on their websites. Cable news and sports would still be tricky ... but it would be sooooo close to being able to dump cable. (With Netflix and/or Hulu plus available, too).


Ok maybe you can't refrain from the kool-aid, but please baby sips.

Do you really think Syfy, USA, TNT, ... are going to allow you to watch their shows for free without a cable subscription on your TV?

Yes put down the cup, grab your 2 yr old's (or any)sippy cup and pour your kool-aid into it and nurse it for a few years please.


----------



## hefe

trip1eX said:


> That could be. But actually GTV can be put into anything. Google doesn't care. IT's just no into dvrs because the cable/satellite companies don't want it on their dvrs and they are 90% of the market I bet. And Tivo is the other 10% and Tivo hasn't said anything about switching to that platform.
> 
> So that's why it's not on DVRs at launch.


It's in the DISH DVR at launch. They are one of the first partners. Others _can't_ build it in yet, as it hasn't been opened up to them yet.


----------



## trip1eX

hefe said:


> It's in the DISH DVR at launch. They are one of the first partners. Others _can't_ build it in yet, as it hasn't been opened up to them yet.


Where does it say Dish DVR with GTV will be out tomorrow? (or when it is supposed to launch? )

Also what's the price and the restrictions if any Dish is imposing on the platform?

What I read yesterday, in the fine print, is that the Logitech box will work with a Dish DVR. I don't think I saw anything this around about that DISH DVR.


----------



## trip1eX

ZeoTiVo said:


> Yeah, that demo was definitely just a quick one off. Now if the Google TV could show us episodes of glee available online (say at network website) or from the TiVo DVR in one screen and then when one is picked the right setup is done to watch it - then they have something.


Well GTV will take you to Amazon On-Demand, but you're not going to be watching free episodes in hi-def on your TV. (unless you have a cable/sat subcription.)

And forget your Glee. None of the networks have signed on with GTV as of yet.

HBO on-demand is only accessible to HBO customers.

And TNT is putting their websites on the device (no word about what exactly that means, but I bet it ain't free shows in hi-def.) It will be clips, and promotional material for their shows.



ZeoTiVo said:


> Note that a cable company DVR would likely not be able to provide that type of functionality


Disagree. Comcast has on-demand viewing on the internet for subscribers. A better selection than Hulu too. I think they may be in partnership with other cable companies on that.

So I mean no reason they wouldn't let subscribers watch this content on their cable set top box in the future.


----------



## wisny

trip1eX said:


> Ok maybe you can't refrain from the kool-aid, but please baby sips.
> 
> Do you really think Syfy, USA, TNT, ... are going to allow you to watch their shows *for free without a cable subscription on your TV?*
> 
> Yes put down the cup, grab your 2 yr old's (or any)sippy cup and pour your kool-aid into it and nurse it for a few years please.


Um ... yes? I don't understand the confusion. They 'let me watch them' for free now ... on their website! If I can go to their website on my tv, I can watch them 'for free'. The only thing stopping me is no browser on my tv. 

http://www.syfy.com/rewind/?__source=Syfy_Global_Nav
http://www.usanetwork.com/fullepisodes/
http://www.tnt.tv/dramavision/?cid=39824

lol @ sippy cup stuff. Let's see. Put down the black outfit, add a zip of color - just a dash - and don't let the 'too cool for school' inhibit the dream.

A browser accessed with my TiVo remote would offer SO much more than just YouTube, or Amazon, or Netflix.

I don't understand why people _don't_ see the possibilities accessing a browser through your TiVo would offer.


----------



## wisny

hefe said:


> It's in the DISH DVR at launch. They are one of the first partners. Others _can't_ build it in yet, as it hasn't been opened up to them yet.


Right - such a shame, too, that it's going to be in the Dish DVR, but not the TiVo. :down:


----------



## ZeoTiVo

trip1eX said:


> Well GTV will take you to Amazon On-Demand, but you're not going to be watching free episodes in hi-def on your TV.


 hence my use of the word *IF*



> Disagree. Comcast has


Relax, I get that Google TV is not going to have much content. Certainly no one is going to give content away for free unless it is part of their already built websites.
I meant simply that Google TV could simply not get the recorded shows list off the cable company DVR like they could off the TiVo DVR.


----------



## tomsailor

Consider that Logitech Revue takes HDMI(tuner) + Ethernet(internet) inputs, integrates and sends HDMI out to your HDTV or AV-Receiver.

Now plug in a USB 3 drive and/or Blu-Ray recorder/player to the Revue.
With suitable software plugin, you have an economical HD-DVR for both internet and HDTV (satellite, cable or over-air) content- with Blu-Ray backup/player too!

That DVR-software interface could be Tivo's, or something similar if Google and Tivo don't team up.

It's hard to imagine a simpler or more economical near-term HDTV/web/DVR integration (or should I say Harmonization).
What do you think folks?


----------



## trip1eX

wisny said:


> Um ... yes? I don't understand the confusion. They 'let me watch them' for free now ... on their website! If I can go to their website on my tv, I can watch them 'for free'. The only thing stopping me is no browser on my tv.


You're being naive.

USA, TNT, Sci-fi get paid sub fees by cable and sat.

The minute you can watch those shows for free on your TV without a cable/sat subscription is the minute they stop getting paid those fees.

That's why you can't make that leap from watching free on computer in your browser to watching in hi-def on your big screen.

That's where the kool-aid drinking begins.

The internet stuff is additive to their business model. It is shown later. IT is shown on the computer screen. IT isn't hi-def afaik either.

A clear line is drawn there.

That's why you don't see free Hulu on TVs even though, gasp, its content is on their website for free.


----------



## trip1eX

tomsailor said:


> Consider that Logitech Revue takes HDMI(tuner) + Ethernet(internet) inputs, integrates and sends HDMI out to your HDTV or AV-Receiver.
> 
> Now plug in a USB 3 drive and/or Blu-Ray recorder/player to the Revue.
> With suitable software plugin, you have an economical HD-DVR for both internet and HDTV (satellite, cable or over-air) content- with Blu-Ray backup/player too!
> 
> That DVR-software interface could be Tivo's, or something similar if Google and Tivo don't team up.
> 
> It's hard to imagine a simpler or more economical near-term HDTV/web/DVR integration (or should I say Harmonization).
> What do you think folks?


Nice fantasy. But won't work for a variety of reasons and certainly isn't going to be so economical to be worth it.


----------



## atmuscarella

tomsailor said:


> Consider that Logitech Revue takes HDMI(tuner) + Ethernet(internet) inputs, integrates and sends HDMI out to your HDTV or AV-Receiver.
> 
> Now plug in a USB 3 drive and/or Blu-Ray recorder/player to the Revue.
> With suitable software plugin, you have an economical HD-DVR for both internet and HDTV (satellite, cable or over-air) content- with Blu-Ray backup/player too!
> 
> That DVR-software interface could be Tivo's, or something similar if Google and Tivo don't team up.
> 
> It's hard to imagine a simpler or more economical near-term HDTV/web/DVR integration (or should I say Harmonization).
> What do you think folks?


You can not record from a HDMI stream. So you can not turn a Logitech Revue into a DVR. A DVR has to record the digital file (MPEG 2 or 4 depending on the provider) before it is expanded.

That said someone could certainly build a DVR that used the Google TV operating system as it's base and build DVR functionality on top of it. Just like MS did with Windows.

You will not see TiVo do this because they would not get paid for either advertising or by the content providers (Like Amazon rentals). The add revenue will be going to Google and if any content providers did pay it again would go to Google.


----------



## atmuscarella

trip1eX said:


> You're being naive.
> 
> USA, TNT, Sci-fi get paid sub fees by cable and sat.
> 
> The minute you can watch those shows for free on your TV without a cable/sat subscription is the minute they stop getting paid those fees.
> 
> That's why you can't make that leap from watching free on computer in your browser to watching in hi-def on your big screen.
> 
> That's where the kool-aid drinking begins.
> 
> The internet stuff is additive to their business model. It is shown later. IT is shown on the computer screen. IT isn't hi-def afaik either.
> 
> A clear line is drawn there.
> 
> That's why you don't see free Hulu on TVs even though, gasp, its content is on their website for free.


Actually I see free Hulu on my TiVo - my laptop sends it there just fine - however I agree with pretty much what you said. Anyone who thinks they are going to be able to download free, legal, high quality video from the web and replace their cable/Sat is dreaming.

Even if you could purchase high quality HD videos at a reasonable cost, then you would have to deal with your Internet providers down load max.

Everyone needs to understand that the purpose of Google TV is to give Google another way to deliver adds to you. It will be an easy way for people to access the Internet from a TV and I am sure they will sell a few million stand alone boxes and it may become the norm on new TVs as it is cheaper for them to use free software than to develop it themselves.


----------



## hefe

trip1eX said:


> Where does it say Dish DVR with GTV will be out tomorrow?


It doesn't because it's not launching yet. No, I don't know the date.

Dish is one of the initial partners. They'll be the first DVR.


----------



## hefe

atmuscarella said:


> Actually I see free Hulu on my TiVo - my laptop sends it there just fine - however I agree with pretty much what you said. Anyone who thinks they are going to be able to download free, legal, high quality video from the web and replace their cable/Sat is dreaming.


Well then, I'm dreaming, because I think it's possible.

I'm not saying that there are NO ads (one 'd' by the way) or no cost. The current web delivered content has ads. But they're fewer and shorter than regular free TV. I can deal with that, especially if it's a fraction of the cost that I currently pay for satellite.

I can see down the road having a Google TV powered DVR with HD OTA capability, and supplementing that with Netflix, Hulu, a handful of premium options, and still coming out much cheaper than what I pay now, and then also have all the cool extras that are sure to come when people start developing apps for this thing.

I'm still bullish on the concept. But hey, nobody that doesn't want it has to get it.


----------



## atmuscarella

hefe said:


> Well then, I'm dreaming, because I think it's possible.
> 
> I'm not saying that there are NO ads (one 'd' by the way) or no cost. The current web delivered content has ads. But they're fewer and shorter than regular free TV. I can deal with that, especially if it's a fraction of the cost that I currently pay for satellite.
> 
> I can see down the road having a Google TV powered DVR with HD OTA capability, and supplementing that with Netflix, Hulu, a handful of premium options, and still coming out much cheaper than what I pay now, and then also have all the cool extras that are sure to come when people start developing apps for this thing.
> 
> I'm still bullish on the concept. But hey, nobody that doesn't want it has to get it.


I only have the bare minimum sat sub and certainly am not against Google TV. You correctly listed how to reasonably replace a cable/sat sub. OTA & Netflix with a DVR are the core items and web access is icing on the cake. Media PCs already do all of this and TiVo has been moving closer to it. Google TV on it's own doesn't cut it but it certainly will add the icing need by some to make the jump.


----------



## wisny

hefe said:


> Well then, I'm dreaming, because I think it's possible.
> 
> I'm not saying that there are NO ads (one 'd' by the way) or no cost. The current web delivered content has ads. But they're fewer and shorter than regular free TV. I can deal with that, especially if it's a fraction of the cost that I currently pay for satellite.
> 
> I can see down the road having a Google TV powered DVR with HD OTA capability, and supplementing that with Netflix, Hulu, a handful of premium options, and still coming out much cheaper than what I pay now, and then also have all the cool extras that are sure to come when people start developing apps for this thing.
> 
> I'm still bullish on the concept. But hey, nobody that doesn't want it has to get it.


:up: I'm bullish on it too. I'll be watching GTV, see what happens. Sometime next fall or so, I may be very interested in doing just this (if GTV looks as good as it sounds). Too bad not on TiVo, but maybe the Sony Blu Ray player will be good.


----------



## vitocorleone

TiVo is not listed as being a "compatible" HDMI set top box with the Logitech Revue.

http://revue.logitech.com/MartiniWe...26&source=subcategory&sub_cat=Troubleshooting


----------



## hefe

vitocorleone said:


> TiVo is not listed as being a "compatible" HDMI set top box with the Logitech Revue.
> 
> http://revue.logitech.com/MartiniWe...26&source=subcategory&sub_cat=Troubleshooting


At the bottom of the chart: "Note: This is not a full list of all Set-top boxes. Check back often for updates."

But you would think TiVo would be among the first to check.


----------



## atmuscarella

Engadget is having a live blog from the Logitech Google TV announcement event.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/06/live-from-the-logitech-google-tv-event/?sort=newest&refresh=60

Reality isn't as much fun as the speculation - still looks like a easy way to access most of the Internet on your TV (Hulu is going to block the box right now -Google is trying to change that). Not sure I would spend $300 on it but will check it out when Best Buy has a demo setup at the end of the month.

Thanks,


----------



## hefe

Looks pretty compelling to me, although priced a bit higher than I'd want.

It can stream your own media from DLNA sources on your home network. That's a selling point for me. One box to stream my media, Netflix, and web content to my entertainment system is an attractive proposition. If it had the same integration with TiVo that it has with Dish, I'd probably order right away.


----------



## bcronin

hefe said:


> If it had the same integration with TiVo that it has with Dish, I'd probably order right away.


Ditto ...
--
bc


----------



## innocentfreak

The price would have to drop significantly while also supporting multiple TiVos/DVRs with something better than IR blasters before the revue would grab me.


----------



## Aero 1

innocentfreak said:


> The price would have to drop significantly while also supporting multiple TiVos/DVRs with something better than IR blasters before the revue would grab me.


how would one physical piece of hardware that hooks up to one physical piece of hardware support multiple pieces of hardware that are in different rooms?

you would get two revues for two tivos.

i agree with you about the ir blasters.


----------



## trip1eX

Hhhmm kind of anti-climatic if you ask me. 

Still not sold.

And dont' understand why they include that big keyboard with the device? Are they crazy? 

A Tivo slide-out remote or 10-key cellphone keypad is the device to include with something like the Logitech Revue. Or even Logitech's smaller mini-keyboard.

Or a 20-key cellphone keypad like on my wife's cellphone is a nice hybrid. Perfect for the living room and one-handed use.

Nice idea. If it were xmas I would say it's the thought that counts.


----------



## innocentfreak

Aero 1 said:


> how would one physical piece of hardware that hooks up to one physical piece of hardware support multiple pieces of hardware that are in different rooms?
> 
> you would get two revues for two tivos.
> 
> i agree with you about the ir blasters.


It would have some of the abilities over IP. This is how TiVo Desktop and KMTTG work. It wouldn't be able to do everything but if it pulled data via IP it could pull all your recorded shows and display it as a single list telling you where your content is recorded. Then via the IR blasters it could initiate a transfer.


----------



## hefe

Aero 1 said:


> how would one physical piece of hardware that hooks up to one physical piece of hardware support multiple pieces of hardware that are in different rooms?


IP networking.


trip1eX said:


> Hhhmm kind of anti-climatic if you ask me.
> 
> Still not sold.
> 
> And dont' understand why they include that big keyboard with the device? Are they crazy?


You can use the free iPhone or Android Harmony apps for the phone, or get the mini keyboard as an optional accessory. Some people may like a larger keyboard.


----------



## atmuscarella

Aero 1 said:


> how would one physical piece of hardware that hooks up to one physical piece of hardware support multiple pieces of hardware that are in different rooms?
> 
> you would get two revues for two tivos.
> 
> i agree with you about the ir blasters.


I have 3 DVRs in one room connected to one receiver. So no way I would want more than one unit. Not that it matters much I could live with it connect to one of the TiVo HD DVRs, given that it isn't really going to do much with TiVos at this point anyway.

What I really wonder is if I will be able to get the Dishnetwork discount price without having a dish DVR or HD receiver (I have an old SD dish receiver I use with a TiVo Series 2). With the Dish discount the price drops to $179 which I think is acceptable.

Thanks,


----------



## trip1eX

"Setting up recordings, watching DVR content, even browsing a channel guide -- you're stuck with your cable or satellite UI, and that's that. Google and Logitech tell us more integration is coming, but it's not happening with the Revue as it stands right now." - Engadget


----------



## jdmass

vitocorleone said:


> TiVo is not listed as being a "compatible" HDMI set top box with the Logitech Revue.
> 
> http://revue.logitech.com/MartiniWe...26&source=subcategory&sub_cat=Troubleshooting


However, Logitech's support forum does explicitly say that Tivo HD is supported. In response to a direct question regarding Tivo, Sanjay from Logitech replies:

"The Logitech Revue will work with Tivo HD as long as it has a HDMI connection. 
The Logitech Revue communicated with your components by IR and not by IP."

Here's the link:

http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Revue/Tivo-HD/m-p/497420

However, as noted in subsequent replies in the thread, not ALL Tivo functionality may be supported at this time.


----------



## richsadams

IR blasters? Seriously? Fail. IMHO that is.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Yep, this is all you need to know from the engadget hands-on:

- There's almost no getting around the fact that Google TV as a platform is sort of a terrible way to consume actual TV content. The Revue will integrate with Dish DVRs, sure, but only in the slightest way, and if you've got any other service it's completely silo'd from the Google TV experience. Setting up recordings, watching DVR content, even browsing a channel guide -- you're stuck with your cable or satellite UI, and that's that. Google and Logitech tell us more integration is coming, but it's not happening with the Revue as it stands right now.

- In fact, that's our biggest takeaway here -- there's potential all over the place here, but very little of it is actually realized. The Revue is a really nice way to get Chrome on your TV with Flash 10.1, the video conferencing system is slick, and we're definitely psyched to see what Android devs do with the platform, but potential alone isn't necessarily worth $450. That impression might change after we get our hands on a review unit, but we'll have to see -- leaving a netbook on the couch is pretty convenient, after all.

So it's WebTV, version ??.0. Full integration with DVRs might be in this product someday, but not now. Might be useful in some future where all of TV is available on the web...


----------



## atmuscarella

Like I said reality isn't has much fun as the hype. 

The Revue is simple a device to easily put the Internet on your TV and stream video/pictures/music from any local servers that you may have. That said I may still be interested really depends what I have to pay for it. 

Google TV when built into a TV or Blu-ray player will do about the same. 

Where it goes from here no one knows - I still think it would make a good platform for a DVR - but most likely not TiVo as it would likely negatively effect TiVo's revenue streams. Maybe Dishnetwork will build it into a future DVR given their current participation.


----------



## Jayboy

I would be happy as a clam right now, just if the Revue would connect to one Tivo, and then have streaming web content available through my Tivo menu. 

If we can start there, I'm in. I'd buy the box.


----------



## wisny

Jayboy said:


> I would be happy as a clam right now, just if the Revue would connect to one Tivo, and then have streaming web content available through my Tivo menu.
> 
> If we can start there, I'm in. I'd buy the box.


:up: Agree. Imma keep my eye on the Sony Blu ray player. We don't have a blu ray player yet, and don't have the PS3 (we have the xbox 360, and wii, but still just the ps2).


----------



## David Z

I'm still not quite sure whether my Tivo Series 3 will be able to hook up to the new Sony Google TV via HDMI and allow the Google TV service to access the cable card information in the Series 3 (using IR blasters?). Can anyone clarify?

Thanks,
David


----------



## hefe

David Z said:


> I'm still not quite sure whether my Tivo Series 3 will be able to hook up to the new Sony Google TV via HDMI and allow the Google TV service to access the cable card information in the Series 3 (using IR blasters?). Can anyone clarify?
> 
> Thanks,
> David


No. As I understand it, the only device the box can exchange information with is the Dish DVR. All other info comes from the Internet.

The IR blasters allow the Google TV to operate the other box...change channels, select record, that kind of thing.


----------



## andydumi

hefe said:


> No. As I understand it, the only device the box can exchange information with is the Dish DVR. All other info comes from the Internet.
> 
> The IR blasters allow the Google TV to operate the other box...change channels, select record, that kind of thing.


This is not correct. Its been shown to control Tivo Premiere over IP control, no blasters. The Dish deal is a temporary exclusivity window, they said that in the conference.


----------



## hefe

andydumi said:


> This is not correct. Its been shown to control Tivo Premiere over IP control, no blasters. The Dish deal is a temporary exclusivity window, they said that in the conference.


What part of what I said do you consider incorrect?

Whether it can _control _a TiVo via IP isn't what I was talking about. I was referring to the two way communication that is necessary to _access data_ for search from another device, like the recordings on a Dish DVR, or whatever was being asked about accessing a cable card. (Not sure what was really being asked there.)

Yes, the Dish exclusivity is temporary, but Dish worked with Google TV to develop a special communication protocol for this integration, as they said during the first presentation. There is no indication of whether that will be ready to go on other devices, and if so, when.


----------



## trip1eX

Good thing about GTV is the line to buy the $300 Logitech box in addition to renting a service provider DVR is very short.


----------



## andydumi

hefe said:


> What part of what I said do you consider incorrect?
> 
> Whether it can _control _a TiVo via IP isn't what I was talking about. I was referring to the two way communication that is necessary to _access data_ for search from another device, like the recordings on a Dish DVR, or whatever was being asked about accessing a cable card. (Not sure what was really being asked there.)
> 
> Yes, the Dish exclusivity is temporary, but Dish worked with Google TV to develop a special communication protocol for this integration, as they said during the first presentation. There is no indication of whether that will be ready to go on other devices, and if so, when.


I guess I misspoke in my first post.

It was shown to do what you mention, show the results of the Tivo recorded items on the Google TV search box. The video showed a search that yielded as results the show recorded on the Tivo ready to play, ready to stream on Netflix, and on Amazon to rent, as well as related stuff on Youtune and Internet. Then the user hit play on the Tivo stored item and it played off the Tivo. Then it showed control of the menu of the Tivo as you said.

I need to find this video. Its from Engadget or Gizmodo sometime in April-June.


----------



## hefe

Google TV was announced in May at the Google IO conference. The only video that I recall from that time was an early Logitech video:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/20/logitechs-google-tv-companion-box-includes-smartphone-apps-we/

They did show a TiVo, but only showed controlling it, not searching or displaying its content in the Google TV overlay.


----------



## MichaelK

trip1eX said:


> Good thing about GTV is the line to buy the $300 Logitech box in addition to renting a service provider DVR is very short.


but the line to buy a blueray player with googletv for 400 bucks to go with ma tivo might be a little longer. I think I might get in that line.


----------



## MichaelK

andydumi said:


> This is not correct. Its been shown to control Tivo Premiere over IP control, no blasters. The Dish deal is a temporary exclusivity window, they said that in the conference.


so google tv can control the tivo over ethernet right now?


----------



## atmuscarella

MichaelK said:


> so google tv can control the tivo over ethernet right now?


I do not believe so. GoogleTV mentions IR blasters and the Logitech Revue mentions something about having the functionality of a Harmony remote (which a Tv or Blu-ray player form Sony would not have). The only DVRs that appear to be controllable and search-able through Ethernet are Dishnetworks at this time.


----------



## gpejsa

I got my Logitech Revue Friday evening and set it up. The initial configuration took about 10 minutes. For those that care, I have Direct TV (HR 24-500) and FIOS internet.

My initial reactions are mixed. At first I was unimpressed with the apps they have and watching them on my 61" big screen. However, things swinged around when I could watch my college football off of espn3.com on the big tv. Now that was cool. The picture and audio were well synched and was a near regular tv experience (a few pauses here and there, but i did put it on high resolution).

The keyboard that comes with the Logitech is very nice. I found it easy to use and it controls my Directv box nicely. The mouse interface to select items on the tv works well and in general, I thought the keyboard worked very nicely.

I was kind of hoping to try out the iphone controller app, but Logitech informed me that Apple has not released the app yet (I guess they are testing it thoroughly....or is that competition??).

I may splurge for the video camera...i think have a hi-res video conferencing might be nice...


----------



## aadam101

And the true comparison to Tivo begins........



gpejsa said:


> I got my Logitech Revue Friday evening and set it up. The initial configuration took about 10 minutes.


Tivo seriously loses in this area. It takes at least an hour to setup a Tivo.......maybe longer.

[/QUOTE]I was kind of hoping to try out the iphone controller app, but Logitech informed me that Apple has not released the app yet (I guess they are testing it thoroughly....or is that competition??).[/QUOTE]

Again, Tivo loses. It has been a while since Tivo tested something thoroughly before releasing it. For the most part I have seen very few bugs in any iphone or android app. The ones I have noticed were always fixed within a week. The Premiere is still full of bugs and it is 6 months old.


----------



## atmuscarella

aadam101 said:


> And the true comparison to Tivo begins........


Ok so you are going to compare a DVR with some Internet access abilities to a Single purpose (Internet access) computer with no DVR ablities?

Good Luck with that.

Logitech's Revue doesn't replace/compete with a DVR it compliments it.

If you would like to do a comparison it would be a DVR with a Logitech Revue against a tricked out media center PC.

TiVo has been moving to combine the functions of a DVR with Internet access so if you want to evaluate something it would be if TiVo has/does become successful in eliminating the need for another box such as the Revue to have acceptable Internet access on your TV or if a TiVo competes with a good media center PC (so far I do not think they have on either account but are making progress).

Thanks,


----------



## bpgveg14

doctord said:


> I saw the preview announcement of Google TV and don't see TiVo mentioned. It seems like what TiVo is trying to be but better. Wouldn't you love to see TiVo jump on board?
> 
> http://www.logitech.com/en-us/1007/7139?WT.ac=gtv|7099|seethevideo_google


Bottom line is that EVERYONE needs to work together for US, the consumer! Right now, TiVO isn't what I'd like it to be, but neither is Google TV. Apple TV doesn't impress alone, nor does Roku. The Networks are a pain in the BUTT, and aren't making it any easier to like them by blocking things like Google TV.

I want my TV here, now, fast, without commercials, exactly WHEN I want it. I want my shows to be supported for more than a partial season (THIS MEANS YOU, Fox Network!) And...heaven help me...I may even want my TV after the fact, when I hear how cool a particular show was.

The provider that can give me the EASIEST way to give me EXACTLY what I want at the LOWEST price will win my business. HOW do you do this? I don't know, banner ads, in-show advertising, YOU guys figure it out. That's why you get the big bucks.

But as you're all complaining while you try to meet my expectations, remember this: You all brought it on yourselves.


----------



## atmuscarella

bpgveg14 said:


> Bottom line is that EVERYONE needs to work together for US, the consumer! Right now, TiVO isn't what I'd like it to be, but neither is Google TV. Apple TV doesn't impress alone, nor does Roku. The Networks are a pain in the BUTT, and aren't making it any easier to like them by blocking things like Google TV. ...


I think you missed the whole point of Network TV - First you are not the Networks customer. Second the advertisers are the Networks customers. The advertisers pay the bills and what they are paying the Networks for is your eye balls (to watch commercials). The way the Networks get you to watch the commercials is by playing TV shows in between the commercials that you like.

Pay TV is a little different - you are paying a cable/satellite provider to deliver a mix of advertiser supported and Premium stations to you. You are the Premium stations customer but for the advertiser supported channels their primary customer is still the advertisers.

The same is true for Google - Google's customer is the advertisers they pay Google not you or me. Google does the same thing the Network Television does they provide your eye balls to advertisers and the way Google gets you to view what the advertisers want you to view is by providing no cost "services" to you with the adds.

As long as advertisers are paying the bulk of the bills we will always be second class to them.

Thanks,


----------



## orangeboy

atmuscarella said:


> I think you missed the whole point of Network TV - First you are not the Networks costumer. Second the advertisers are the Networks customers. The advertisers pay the bills and what they are paying the Networks for is your eye balls (to watch commercials). The way the Networks get you to watch the commercials is by playing TV shows in between the commercials that you like.
> 
> Pay TV is a little different - you are paying a cable/satellite provider to deliver a mix of advertiser supported and Premium stations to you. You are the Premium stations costumer but for the advertiser supported channels their primary costumer is still the advertisers.
> 
> The same is true for Google - Google's costumer is the advertisers they pay Google not you or me. Google does the same thing the Network Television does they provide your eye balls to advertisers and the way Google gets you to view what the advertisers want you to view is by providing no cost "services" to you with the adds.
> 
> As long as advertisers are paying the bulk of the bills we will always be second class to them.
> 
> Thanks,


Most of what we consumers purchase goes to those same advertisers, so really nothing is "free", _especially_ network television...


----------



## richsadams

atmuscarella said:


> I think you missed the whole point of Network TV - First you are not the Networks costumer.


You never know, the OP could be a "costumer" as well as a customer!

Costumer = A person or company that makes or supplies theatrical or fancy-dress costumes.

Customer = A person or organization that buys goods or services from a store or business.

Darn spell check!


----------



## atmuscarella

richsadams said:


> You never know, the OP could be a "costumer" as well as a customer!
> 
> Costumer = A person or company that makes or supplies theatrical or fancy-dress costumes.
> 
> Customer = A person or organization that buys goods or services from a store or business.
> 
> Darn spell check!


Yes got to love it fast typing + spell check = some pretty funny stuff. Least it was good for a smile


----------



## MichaelK

atmuscarella said:


> ....
> The same is true for Google - Google's customer is the advertisers they pay Google not you or me. Google does the same thing the Network Television does they provide your eye balls to advertisers and the way Google gets you to view what the advertisers want you to view is by providing no cost "services" to you with the adds.
> 
> As long as advertisers are paying the bulk of the bills we will always be second class to them.
> 
> Thanks,


except when it comes to an "app store"

Google customer at that point is probably the developer that they are providing a delivery method to- for which google takes their percentage.

providing an app store and make 20 cents a clip off of each sale turned out to be a very lucrative business for apple. I dont think google scoofs at their app store income either.

once google rolls out their app store to google tv- then things will be different. Who knows how different or if it lasts. But then advertisers aren't the only customers that google has. I dont need to browse and view ads for google to make money at that point. They can make money buy taking 10% (or whatever the cut is) from whoever wants to sell me content at that point.

So while pretty much everything google does is to get us to see their ads on the internet- maybe things can change in the future. (maybe)

The app/content owners have to give us something we're willing to pay for at that point- and google could care less who it is that sells us something as long as someone sells us something.


----------



## MichaelK

andydumi said:


> This is not correct. Its been shown to control Tivo Premiere over IP control, no blasters. The Dish deal is a temporary exclusivity window, they said that in the conference.


got a Sony BD/Google box as a Christmas gift.

No joy integrating with Tivo.

logitech boxes can control a tivo via IR.

Sony units can't even control the tivo with IR (that I can find at least...)

There's no IP going on at all on the current release.

Even more annoying is it doesn't even do HDMI-CEC with the brand new sony HT I have.

Big fail for integrating controls with my other equipment.

And it's only WORSE that there's no IR input to the googletv so I can't even use a harmony remote.


----------



## karlthepagan

I just traded my crappy TimeWarner motorola HD-DVR (bad HDMI port, wouldn't work with GoogleTV) for a TiVo HD and will be using it with my Logitech Revue.

Isn't the TiVo network remote protocol available to Google? I have an android app to control my TiVo so I would assume so. Let's hope they integrate properly or maybe they can address this via an application!


----------



## MichaelK

karlthepagan said:


> I just traded my crappy TimeWarner motorola HD-DVR (bad HDMI port, wouldn't work with GoogleTV) for a TiVo HD and will be using it with my Logitech Revue.
> 
> Isn't the TiVo network remote protocol available to Google? I have an android app to control my TiVo so I would assume so. Let's hope they integrate properly or maybe they can address this via an application!


not currently integrated.

hopefully when the app market goes live on googletv then some 3rd party will correct it.

even assuming the functionality isn't integrated- it would be nice at least to have one stinking remote that controls it all.

Plus the keyboard remotes for googletv would be great for the tivo typing experience- like the tivo bluetooth remote is.


----------



## bpgveg14

atmuscarella said:


> ...you are not the Networks customer...the advertisers are the Networks customers...As long as advertisers are paying the bulk of the bills we will always be second class to them...


If your premise is correct, then the advertisers can keep watching shows and buying their own products!

I think YOU missed the point (or pissed the moint). Network TV is going bye-bye. Fewer and fewer are watching it. A family member recently cancelled her cable subscription, and she gets NO TV, OTA or otherwise. She mainly lives off Netflix and the Internet.

As everyone knows, eye balls DO determine how many advertisers are on board with a show. But SOMETIMES commercials are hidden. Google "Heroes: in-story advertising" or Colbert Report - "Hail To The Cheese Stephen Colbert's Nacho Cheese Doritos 2008 Presidential Campaign".

TV can televise commercials subtly, and not hit us over the head every 5 minutes...again...THEY need to come up with a better business model.


----------



## atmuscarella

bpgveg14 said:


> If your premise is correct, then the advertisers can keep watching shows and buying their own products!


My premise is exactly what the head of FOX has said. The vast majority of TV shows (not cinema moves) are produced to support add driven media entertainment.



bpgveg14 said:


> I think YOU missed the point (or pissed the moint). Network TV is going bye-bye. Fewer and fewer are watching it. A family member recently cancelled her cable subscription, and she gets NO TV, OTA or otherwise. She mainly lives off Netflix and the Internet.


The thread wasn't about Network TV going bye-bye. And where do you think most of the content on Netflix and the Internet came from? Answer: The Networks. Again outside of cinema moves all most all content is produce to support add driven media entertainment. Services like Netflix can only be as cost effective as they are because most of there content has had the majority of it's production costs paid for another way (at the box office or by advertising).



bpgveg14 said:


> As everyone knows, eye balls DO determine how many advertisers are on board with a show. But SOMETIMES commercials are hidden. Google "Heroes: in-story advertising" or Colbert Report - "Hail To The Cheese Stephen Colbert's Nacho Cheese Doritos 2008 Presidential Campaign".


Do you really think anyone is going to pay enough more for product placement to replace traditional advertising?



bpgveg14 said:


> TV can televise commercials subtly, and not hit us over the head every 5 minutes...again...THEY need to come up with a better business model.


Maybe so but their business model has made lots of money and still makes lots of money. Until advertisers are not willing to continue paying the freight the current model will continue.

Thanks,


----------



## trip1eX

So how is GTV working for everyone? 

I knew it would crash and burn.


----------



## Flyinace2000

How does everyone feel about it now that is $99? Worth it to add to my set up? Could it replace a HTPC that runs PLEX?


----------



## atmuscarella

Flyinace2000 said:


> How does everyone feel about it now that is $99? Worth it to add to my set up? Could it replace a HTPC that runs PLEX?


Simple answer is no it can not replace a HTPC. Many sites still block access by Google TV.

While the price may have been too high, the problems with Google TV were more about software than the price. Perhaps the next software update will fix some issues and help no one knows. At $99 more people will be willing to buy it and just eat the $99 if they don't find it worthwhile so sales should increase but again Google TVs real problems are the actual product not just the price.


----------



## aadam101

I had one and returned it. I wouldn't buy it again at $99. Still not worth the cost.


----------



## richsadams

aadam101 said:


> I had one and returned it. I wouldn't buy it again at $99. Still not worth the cost.


So was it an apps thing, the unit itself? What's such a turn off that more people are now returning them than buying new ones?


----------



## hefe

richsadams said:


> So was it an apps thing, the unit itself? What's such a turn off that more people are now returning them than buying new ones?


They had as many returned by the distribution channel (not end users) as they sent out. The ones that people actually bought were returned at the same rate as other products, according to Logitech.


----------



## richsadams

hefe said:


> They had as many returned by the distribution channel (not end users) as they sent out. The ones that people actually bought were returned at the same rate as other products, according to Logitech.


Ah, got it. Just very few people buying them then.


----------



## hefe

richsadams said:


> Ah, got it. Just very few people buying them then.


Yes, that's the problem. I'm not saying it makes anything better, but it is a distinction that the people that actually bought them are not returning them due to dissatisfaction at the rate quoted by many people. In fact, I've heard many an owner that is quite enthusiastic about the device. I am seriously looking forward to what the Honeycomb upgrade and Market brings...that is way overdue, and the biggest reason for my own disinterest thus far.


----------



## richsadams

hefe said:


> Yes, that's the problem. I'm not saying it makes anything better, but it is a distinction that the people that actually bought them are not returning them due to dissatisfaction at the rate quoted by many people. In fact, I've heard many an owner that is quite enthusiastic about the device. I am seriously looking forward to what the Honeycomb upgrade and Market brings...that is way overdue, and the biggest reason for my own disinterest thus far.


Same here...although the $299 price tag kept me from experimenting with it. I might give it a shot at $99 though. I'll have to do some more research to see if it'll be worthwhile to have since we already have an Apple TV2 and TiVo (of course). I gave Roku a shot and didn't see a lot of advantages, but Google TV might have some? Aren't they getting ready to release an updated GTV, or was that just the Honeycomb update? Need to read some more.


----------



## hefe

richsadams said:


> Same here...although the $299 price tag kept me from experimenting with it. I might give it a shot at $99 though. I'll have to do some more research to see if it'll be worthwhile to have since we already have an Apple TV2 and TiVo (of course). I gave Roku a shot and didn't see a lot of advantages, but Google TV might have some? Aren't they getting ready to release an updated GTV, or was that just the Honeycomb update? Need to read some more.


It's the Honeycomb update that is imminent, and supposedly the Market will come soon as well.

Google develops the platform, and the partners develop the hardware. I don't know if Sony or Logitech, the original partners, are planning a hardware refresh or not. When their exclusivity deal runs out, anybody can make GTV hardware. I forget when that is, exactly.


----------



## richsadams

hefe said:


> It's the Honeycomb update that is imminent, and supposedly the Market will come soon as well.
> 
> Google develops the platform, and the partners develop the hardware. I don't know if Sony or Logitech, the original partners, are planning a hardware refresh or not. When their exclusivity deal runs out, anybody can make GTV hardware. I forget when that is, exactly.


It's a good day...I've learned something! Thanks!


----------



## aadam101

The device was just very underwhelming. Do you remember when you made your first investment in Tivo? You got home and set it up and you were amazed by the powerful tool you had in your hand. You knew that TV was going to be changed forever. 

With Google TV I didn't have that feeling. The apps were limited and not very user friendly. The Amazon app is particular was nothing more than just Amazon.com in a browser. It just wasn't a revolutionary product. I got the Sony one that was over $400. I knew I wouldn't use it enough for that kind of money. 

I returned it and bought and $89 Roku. I have nothing but good things to say about the Roku. It does it's job and it does it well. It was very inexpensive so I can overlook it's small flaws.


----------



## Chris Gerhard

I just ordered the Logitech Revue for $50 shipped. I can't figure out whether it is any good or not but for that price, I will take a chance.

Here is the deal if others want to try the same.

http://www.up0.net/functions/messag...367&siteid=6&uid=ba1fcb0e7a&fn=TroubleViewing

You must order from Logitech.


----------



## richsadams

Chris Gerhard said:


> I just ordered the Logitech Revue for $50 shipped. I can't figure out whether it is any good or not but for that price, I will take a chance.
> 
> Here is the deal if others want to try the same.
> 
> http://www.up0.net/functions/messag...367&siteid=6&uid=ba1fcb0e7a&fn=TroubleViewing
> 
> You must order from Logitech.


Yeow! That is a good deal...I think. I'm trying to figure out what the Revue will do that I can't do with my TiVo or my Apple TV2 (or Sammy BR player). I know it has the Chrome web browser built in, but I usually have my iPad handy so probably wouldn't use that much. What else? Hmmm...

I haven't kept up...would it actually work with our TiVo Premiere XL?

I have to do some quick reading now...but if anyone has a yay or nay I'd love to hear it! TIA.


----------



## smark

Seems the code is not invalid?


----------



## richsadams

smark said:


> Seems the code is not invalid?


I tried it too...says it's invalid.


----------



## Chris Gerhard

richsadams said:


> Yeow! That is a good deal...I think. I'm trying to figure out what the Revue will do that I can't do with my TiVo or my Apple TV2 (or Sammy BR player). I know it has the Chrome web browser built in, but I usually have my iPad handy so probably wouldn't use that much. What else? Hmmm...
> 
> I haven't kept up...would it actually work with our TiVo Premiere XL?
> 
> I have to do some quick reading now...but if anyone has a yay or nay I'd love to hear it! TIA.


I don't have any idea what it will do but I don't have a Premiere and no plans to get one. I decided to take a chance to see if I can find some value with the product and the various streaming options I can't get with my TiVoHD.


----------



## Chris Gerhard

richsadams said:


> I tried it too...says it's invalid.


Wow, I just used it as it was posted on another site and immediately mentioned it here.



> Product SKU Product Name Qty Ordered Amount
> 970-000001 Revue with Google TV 1 USD 49.99
> 
> Subtotal: USD 49.99
> Tax: USD 0.00
> Shipping: USD 0.00
> 
> Total Price: USD 49.99


----------



## d3darrow

Link says the code is one time use. gfjqg8j99 was in the original link. For anyone that is able to get the 50% off are you using the same code or a different one?


----------



## Chris Gerhard

d3darrow said:


> Link says the code is one time use. gfjqg8j99 was in the original link. For anyone that is able to get the 50% off are you using the same code or a different one?


I used that code, guess I was the one person in the world to use it.


----------



## mktc1985

According to the google tv forum, android honeycomb 3.1 and the android market place will be coming to google tv with a software update at the end of the summer. This will probably make google tv more useful.


----------



## mktc1985

Sorry for double posting but I can post a link now.

http://www.googletvforum.org/forum/...ll-get-android-3-1-android-market-summer.html

Maybe everyone already knows this but here's the info anyway.


----------



## richsadams

Chris Gerhard said:


> I used that code, guess I was the one person in the world to use it.


Not to worry...it was worth a shot! :up:


----------



## aaronwt

Chris Gerhard said:


> I just ordered the Logitech Revue for $50 shipped. I can't figure out whether it is any good or not but for that price, I will take a chance.
> 
> Here is the deal if others want to try the same.
> 
> http://www.up0.net/functions/messag...367&siteid=6&uid=ba1fcb0e7a&fn=TroubleViewing
> 
> You must order from Logitech.


it's not even worth $50. I just picked one up at $100. But at least at $50 that is cheap enough to keep around.
I plan on keeping mine around awhile but it will be going back to Best Buy before the 45 day return period expires. Unless they have some amazing changes soon. I know the hardware of the revue is more than capable since it's the same as the Boxee box.


----------



## richsadams

aaronwt said:


> it's not even worth $50. I just picked one up at $100. But at least at $50 that is cheap enough to keep around.
> I plan on keeping mine around awhile but it will be going back to Best Buy before the 45 day return period expires. Unless they have some amazing changes soon. I know the hardware of the revue is more than capable since it's the same as the Boxee box.


Thanks for that...kind of sad but good to know. :up:


----------



## Chris Gerhard

aaronwt said:


> it's not even worth $50. I just picked one up at $100. But at least at $50 that is cheap enough to keep around.
> I plan on keeping mine around awhile but it will be going back to Best Buy before the 45 day return period expires. Unless they have some amazing changes soon. I know the hardware of the revue is more than capable since it's the same as the Boxee box.


Ha, well it is on the UPS truck and should be here really soon and I will see if I can figure out how to get $50 of value from it. I have read more about it now that I have ordered it and I am encouraged by what I have read. We should see updates adding features and hopefully adding more internet video streaming options.


----------



## aadam101

aaronwt said:


> it's not even worth $50. I just picked one up at $100. But at least at $50 that is cheap enough to keep around.
> I plan on keeping mine around awhile but it will be going back to Best Buy before the 45 day return period expires. Unless they have some amazing changes soon. I know the hardware of the revue is more than capable since it's the same as the Boxee box.


I think at $50, I wouldn't have returned it but I wouldn't have used it either.


----------



## Chris Gerhard

I am setting it up now, it connected to my network and is downloading an update. I just read this 50 page thread at Google TV Forums regarding video streaming options that do work and think I won't have any problems finding value with this product.

http://www.googletvforum.org/forum/google-tv-general-discussion/297-project-free-tv.html

I like the keyboard for doing any internet web based activity and my primary intended use was the Amazon Prime video streaming and web browsing, it is set up on my third HDTV in the den which doesn't even have a subscribed TiVo. So far, it at least feels like a great $100 product.


----------



## Chris Gerhard

Although it appears I am in a minority, for my needs it looks like it will be terrific. One of the common complaints about how poorly it integrates and handles local content stored on hard drives or other local content somehow accessible over the network just doesn't matter to me, I don't have any of that. All of my recorded content is either on a TiVo or D-VHS and Google TV does nothing with that and I didn't want it to. I wanted access to internet videos and web browsing on a specific TV and for that, it works well. The fact that the major networks have blocked Google TV devices from their streaming doesn't matter to me, that is what I use TiVo and OTA to handle. Now I want Hulu on the Revue and maybe Google can just buy Hulu to cover that issue. I haven't checked to see if it can handle ESPN3 but will figure that out soon enough, that is something I did want and don't have covered with anything else.

The product is in its infancy and should get a lot better for the people that want much more than it does so far. It might be the Logitech Revue will quickly become obsolete because Google TV becomes more sophisticated and this early device won't keep up but my sense is that this has a lot of power to do much more than it does. That remains to be seen and somebody more technically inclined than I am may already understand whether or not it will be able to keep up. For $100 it sure seems cool to me.


----------



## I WANT MORE

Got mine yesterday. Set it up and LOVE IT!!!! It does everything that I want it to do. There were even a few surprises. 
IMO it is worth $99.00 alone for the universal remote capabilities.


----------



## richsadams

I WANT MORE said:


> Got mine yesterday. Set it up and LOVE IT!!!! It does everything that I want it to do. There were even a few surprises.
> IMO it is worth $99.00 alone for the universal remote capabilities.


Surprises?


----------



## Chris Gerhard

richsadams said:


> Surprises?


Of course I can't speak for I Want More but the surprises might be the product is much better than you would think based on the negative comments. I have been following the thread at AVSForums and it seems to be negative in general but I don't really understand all of the criticism. It may not do what so many want it to do but based on what I understood the product to be at this point, and what I wanted from the product, it is very good in my opinion. It is like people criticizing a baseball bat because you can't play tennis with it very well.


----------



## richsadams

Chris Gerhard said:


> Of course I can't speak for I Want More but the surprises might be the product is much better than you would think based on the negative comments. I have been following the thread at AVSForums and it seems to be negative in general but I don't really understand all of the criticism. It may not do what so many want it to do but based on what I understood the product to be at this point, and what I wanted from the product, it is very good in my opinion. It is like people criticizing a baseball bat because you can't play tennis with it very well.


Got it. Thanks.


----------



## I WANT MORE

richsadams said:


> Surprises?


Tune In Radio. I use this on my Droid and I was not aware that it was also included in the Revue.


----------



## aaronwt

I got my Revue after owning several media players over the last two years. the Revue was easily the worst one. Even the Roku2 is much better than the Revue.
And for me, the absolute worst thing about the Revue, is that it is constantly sending out 7.1 PCM to my receiver over HDMI(a receiver only capable of 5.1 will constantly get a 5.1 signal)
So what happens with a 2.0 signal(which is what most of the applications the Revue can access send) is it sends audio to the FL/FR channels and active channels with no sound to the rest.
So this prevents receivers from applying any post processing to the audio So you will only get sound from the FL/FR speakers. I haven't listened to content like this in twenty years. I got my first surround receiver in 1991. Plus much content is encoded with Dolby Prologic, which is designed to give you a surround experience. You cannot apply the processing to get those from the revue over HDMI. There is a setting for the optical connection to only get 2.0 audio, but for me this is not an option. I stopped using optical connections around five years ago and refuse to go backwards with technology.

Now if you like surfing the web with the wireless keyboard and the browser I guess that is a plus for people. But I did that starting back in 2001 when I setup my first HDTV along with an HTPC and a wireless keyboard. I used it for a few years but stopped using it around 2005 when I got my first laptop. It's much easier to use a laptop, netbook, or tablet when watching TV than to use a built in browser for a device.

Also another fault with the Revue is the Amazon streaming. It is not an application. It just opens up a browser and you watch the Amazon content through that. The Roku 2 has an Amazon streaming application which is many times better with the Amazon content than the Revue since it's works in a similar way to how the Netflix application works.

And the Netflix application on the Roku2 also has 5.1 DD+ available which is nice.

I'll still keep the revue around awhile to see if there are any worthwhile improvements but without any major changes mine will be going back. Since every Media player I have does a better job with the online content than the Revue.


----------



## Chris Gerhard

aaronwt said:


> I got my Revue after owning several media players over the last two years. the Revue was easily the worst one. Even the Roku2 is much better than the Revue.
> And for me, the absolute worst thing about the Revue, is that it is constantly sending out 7.1 PCM to my receiver over HDMI(a receiver only capable of 5.1 will constantly get a 5.1 signal)
> So what happens with a 2.0 signal(which is what most of the applications the Revue can access send) is it sends audio to the FL/FR channels and active channels with no sound to the rest.
> So this prevents receivers from applying any post processing to the audio So you will only get sound from the FL/FR speakers. I haven't listened to content like this in twenty years. I got my first surround receiver in 1991. Plus much content is encoded with Dolby Prologic, which is designed to give you a surround experience. You cannot apply the processing to get those from the revue over HDMI. There is a setting for the optical connection to only get 2.0 audio, but for me this is not an option. I stopped using optical connections around five years ago and refuse to go backwards with technology.
> 
> Now if you like surfing the web with the wireless keyboard and the browser I guess that is a plus for people. But I did that starting back in 2001 when I setup my first HDTV along with an HTPC and a wireless keyboard. I used it for a few years but stopped using it around 2005 when I got my first laptop. It's much easier to use a laptop, netbook, or tablet when watching TV than to use a built in browser for a device.
> 
> Also another fault with the Revue is the Amazon streaming. It is not an application. It just opens up a browser and you watch the Amazon content through that. The Roku 2 has an Amazon streaming application which is many times better with the Amazon content than the Revue since it's works in a similar way to how the Netflix application works.
> 
> And the Netflix application on the Roku2 also has 5.1 DD+ available which is nice.
> 
> I'll still keep the revue around awhile to see if there are any worthwhile improvements but without any major changes mine will be going back. Since every Media player I have does a better job with the online content than the Revue.


I am not going to process a 2.0 signal to 5.1 or 7.1 so I don't care about the shortcoming you consider the worst thing about the Revue but that should be an easy firmware update fix. I haven't noticed it on my own nor confirmed it after reading your complaint.

What other media player includes a web browser like Google TV? This is what I wanted, web browser and streaming media player, which is what I purchased. The ability to go to all of the various sites that offer free streaming, bookmark those sites I am interested in and queue any specific programs for retrieval at my convenience is exactly how I wanted the device to work. The queue works similarly to the TiVo now playing list. I don't own the Roku and can see there are some differences but for my needs, no question that Google TV is better.


----------



## atmuscarella

Chris Gerhard said:


> ...The ability to go to all of the various sites that offer free streaming, ....


So how is that working out? From what I read many sites are still blocked. Is that no longer true?

Also I believe Boxee Box has a browser.

Thanks,


----------



## TheWGP

aaronwt said:


> There is a setting for the optical connection to only get 2.0 audio, but for me this is not an option. I stopped using optical connections around five years ago and refuse to go backwards with technology.


Forgive me if I'm misreading this, but what I'm getting is that the Revue DOES do what you want - it just does it over a connector that you refuse to use?

I completely understand wanting to stick with HDMI, but for 2.0 I thought optical would do just fine? Am I missing something about the capabilities of optical out or is it just the Revue's implementation?

Thanks for the clarification!


----------



## Chris Gerhard

atmuscarella said:


> So how is that working out? From what I read many sites are still blocked. Is that no longer true?
> 
> Also I believe Boxee Box has a browser.
> 
> Thanks,


Yes many sites are blocked from Google TV, it just indicates access should be made by using a traditional computer. There are workarounds to get to most of the sites anyway based on what I have read but I haven't cared enough to read about and try the workarounds yet. The workarounds are something I will probably eventually try if access continues to be blocked. I don't understand why sites are blocking Google TV in the first place and I like simple products, the workarounds at a minimum require I read about how to do it so that is an annoyance. Fortunately most sites aren't blocked and access is fast and simple and if I find enough to watch without messing with the blocked sites then it won't matter as much. I will guess I have seen that stupid message about a dozen times so far although I can't guess as to how many different sites, I seemed to have ended up at a few of the blocked sites several times trying to find specific programming. The last one was Comedy Central.

Do you know the reason various sites block Google TV? Some sort of business reason obviously, trying to limit Google TV success.

Most of the programs I expected to be available online somewhere I have found, but there are two I can't find yet. The Comedy Central Roasts and an old TV movie, "The Love War" (1970). http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066012/ If anybody knows where to find those on the internet, I would appreciate the help.

My use for this product is probably simple by standards of someone that has used the internet for streaming programming a lot but at the most, I don't expect more than 5% of my viewing to come from streaming. I don't have Netflix but if I did, Blu-ray rentals would be the reason, not streaming.


----------



## Chris Gerhard

I should add, unless I see a reasonable explanation as to why Google TV is blocked from the sites, something that makes sense, I am most likely to be angry with the company doing the blocking, not Google. In otherwords, I am likely to be on Google's side on this one, not thinking that is a good reason to avoid this product.


----------



## atmuscarella

Chris Gerhard said:


> My use for this product is probably simple by standards of someone that has used the internet for streaming programming a lot but at the most, I don't expect more than 5% of my viewing to come from streaming. I don't have Netflix but if I did, Blu-ray rentals would be the reason, not streaming.


I am with you I don't stream much - 5% sounds about right and if I was going to pay Netflix for something it would be Blu-ray disks. Sorry I can not help you with the shows/move you were looking for.

I put together a low cost dedicated HTPC over the winter and my Premiere auto down loads all the pod cast I want to view so I have not found a good reason to buy any of the various streaming devices but have been keeping my eye on them to see if any seem worth it to me.

Using the HTPC is somewhat "clunky" compared to an appliance like a TiVo so spending $100 at some point for something that is more like an appliance wouldn't make me cry but so far nothing has inspired me. Maybe the next round of devices/software updates will offer something. If not OTA, TiVo & my HTPC will do just fine.

Thanks,


----------



## aaronwt

TheWGP said:


> Forgive me if I'm misreading this, but what I'm getting is that the Revue DOES do what you want - it just does it over a connector that you refuse to use?
> 
> I completely understand wanting to stick with HDMI, but for 2.0 I thought optical would do just fine? Am I missing something about the capabilities of optical out or is it just the Revue's implementation?
> 
> Thanks for the clarification!


It should do it over optical and HDMI like other devices out there. It was more common to run into this five or six years ago. but in 2011 this should not be the case.


----------



## Chris Gerhard

atmuscarella said:


> I am with you I don't stream much - 5% sounds about right and if I was going to pay Netflix for something it would be Blu-ray disks. Sorry I can not help you with the shows/move you were looking for.
> 
> I put together a low cost dedicated HTPC over the winter and my Premiere auto down loads all the pod cast I want to view so I have not found a good reason to buy any of the various streaming devices but have been keeping my eye on them to see if any seem worth it to me.
> 
> Using the HTPC is somewhat "clunky" compared to an appliance like a TiVo so spending $100 at some point for something that is more like an appliance wouldn't make me cry but so far nothing has inspired me. Maybe the next round of devices/software updates will offer something. If not OTA, TiVo & my HTPC will do just fine.
> 
> Thanks,


I expect the second generation Google TV products will be much better, assuming Google TV survives, and I think it will. I don't want to mess with an HTPC at all so this is the type of product that interested me. I watched an old public domain movie and a couple of old TV shows today and everything worked well again so I am impressed. Some of the hype at the Google TV forums are over torrent sites and other sites that have bootleg programming or are violating copyright but I don't care about those at all.


----------



## shwru980r

Chris Gerhard said:


> I should add, unless I see a reasonable explanation as to why Google TV is blocked from the sites, something that makes sense, I am most likely to be angry with the company doing the blocking, not Google. In otherwords, I am likely to be on Google's side on this one, not thinking that is a good reason to avoid this product.


If someone could buy a $50 - $100 OTT device and watch programming for free instead of paying for cable or satellite TV, I think the cable and satellite providers would lose a significant amount of business. Even OTA revenue would be hurt, because the commercials would likely be stripped out of the content.

This is a plug and play device versus building a media center PC and spending $500 - $1000. Google TV has the potential to disrupt the television viewing market place.

I think this is a reasonable explanation and Google should disclose the fact that many sites are blocking Google TV.


----------



## Chris Gerhard

shwru980r said:


> If someone could buy a $50 - $100 OTT device and watch programming for free instead of paying for cable or satellite TV, I think the cable and satellite providers would lose a significant amount of business. Even OTA revenue would be hurt, because the commercials would likely be stripped out of the content.
> 
> This is a plug and play device versus building a media center PC and spending $500 - $1000. Google TV has the potential to disrupt the television viewing market place.
> 
> I think this is a reasonable explanation and Google should disclose the fact that many sites are blocking Google TV.


I am using a TiVo to skip commercials and see far more advertisements for each hour of Google TV viewing than I do with OTA. Hopefully things will change and Google TV users won't be blocked, your reason may be correct but I think the companies doing this are going to create a lot of bad will. In effect, all they are doing is saying, use an inexpensive device to watch and we won't allow it, you must use a PC. Hardly a good public relations position for a company to take. Like you said, anybody willing to spend the money can get a PC suitable for viewing TV programming using the web.

If Google TV catches on, I expect some backlash towards the companies blocking the service, it isn't as if Google TV users aren't a signficant part of their market. I am certainly using this device as part of my overall goal to no longer pay DirecTV or a cable company and programming providers best chance to show me advertising is allowing Google TV viewing with ads. The more I use this little box, the more I like it.

I don't know that Google TV needs to indicate some sites are blocked, it isn't Google's fault. I knew this before the purchase and I wasn't very well informed overall of what the product does, web browser and streaming internet was all I knew.


----------



## shwru980r

Chris Gerhard said:


> I am using a TiVo to skip commercials and see far more advertisements for each hour of Google TV viewing than I do with OTA. Hopefully things will change and Google TV users won't be blocked, your reason may be correct but I think the companies doing this are going to create a lot of bad will. In effect, all they are doing is saying, use an inexpensive device to watch and we won't allow it, you must use a PC. Hardly a good public relations position for a company to take. Like you said, anybody willing to spend the money can get a PC suitable for viewing TV programming using the web.
> 
> If Google TV catches on, I expect some backlash towards the companies blocking the service, it isn't as if Google TV users aren't a signficant part of their market. I am certainly using this device as part of my overall goal to no longer pay DirecTV or a cable company and programming providers best chance to show me advertising is allowing Google TV viewing with ads. The more I use this little box, the more I like it.
> 
> I don't know that Google TV needs to indicate some sites are blocked, it isn't Google's fault. I knew this before the purchase and I wasn't very well informed overall of what the product does, web browser and streaming internet was all I knew.


Even though many sites will be blocked, I'm tempted to buy one anyway just to see what is available.


----------



## atmuscarella

shwru980r said:


> Even though many sites will be blocked, I'm tempted to buy one anyway just to see what is available.


I am also tempted. I think that was the point of lowering the price to $99. At that price point it becomes an impulse buy for many people. I would also be tempted to buy a Roku but I am using all my HDMI inputs - which of course isn't a problem with the Revue as I would use it to pass through one of my TiVos.


----------



## Chris Gerhard

shwru980r said:


> Even though many sites will be blocked, I'm tempted to buy one anyway just to see what is available.


I am finding enough to make it worthwhile for me and as I indicated, I have seen claims of workarounds to some of the blocked sites. A big majority of sites I went to were not blocked. I am thinking about a second one now.

I found an old film using Google TV I have wanted to watch for a while but the only DVD releases were either poor or expensive, "Matango", and in the correct aspect ratio. It is a old Japanese movie. For any fan of old public domain movies, this thing rocks. Most of these films aren't going to be available on Blu-ray or even in HD.


----------



## HeatherA

I love this Revue so much I scooped up a Sony 46" TV with Google TV built into it. The only downside is now I hate my TiVo S2 DT... it looks like crap on the TV.


----------



## Chris Gerhard

HeatherA said:


> I love this Revue so much I scooped up a Sony 46" TV with Google TV built into it. The only downside is now I hate my TiVo S2 DT... it looks like crap on the TV.


Nice to see another positive comment. If you haven't joined Google TV Forums, you might want to consider that.

http://www.googletvforum.org/forum/login.php?do=login


----------



## HeatherA

Chris Gerhard said:


> Nice to see another positive comment. If you haven't joined Google TV Forums, you might want to consider that.
> 
> http://www.googletvforum.org/forum/login.php?do=login


Thanks Chris, I've been lurking over there for the last week or so. I've mostly posted on the Logitech forums since I bought the Revue first. You might see me pop in on some topics at some point ;-)


----------



## atmuscarella

HeatherA said:


> I love this Revue so much I scooped up a Sony 46" TV with Google TV built into it. The only downside is now I hate my TiVo S2 DT... it looks like crap on the TV.


Yes the down side of buying a nice (and big) HD TV is that lots of SD stuff doesn't look so good.

When I got my 50" Plasma I retained my S2s and Dishnetwork for awhile finally said either I was going to upgrade to a HD dish DVR or dropping the service as I really didn't want to watch most of the stuff in SD and was pretty much only watching OTA HD. I ended up dropping Dish and my S2s sit there feeling rejected .


----------



## aaronwt

I just don't understand the appeal of this. It's too much like surfing the net ten years ago on my HD set. I had a small wireless Keyboard with an HTPC and accessed the websites back then on my Toshiba RPTVB 57" HD set(I also used it to record and watch my HD recordings). It makes more sense to have an application that you run to access the content.
Like Amazon on the Revue, it just opens up a web browser to access the content instead of running an application like it does on the Roku which gives you an interface similar to Netflix streaming.

And I could possibly see it's use if you ran the output of a STB into it. But with a Premiere TiVo, I get access to the content and info available on my local cable system better than what the Revue does. So I did not see the point of hooking it up to the output of a TiVo Premiere.


----------



## Chris Gerhard

aaronwt said:


> I just don't understand the appeal of this. It's too much like surfing the net ten years ago on my HD set. I had a small wireless Keyboard with an HTPC and accessed the websites back then on my Toshiba RPTVB 57" HD set(I also used it to record and watch my HD recordings). It makes more sense to have an application that you run to access the content.
> Like Amazon on the Revue, it just opens up a web browser to access the content instead of running an application like it does on the Roku which gives you an interface similar to Netflix streaming.
> 
> And I could possibly see it's use if you ran the output of a STB into it. But with a Premiere TiVo, I get access to the content and info available on my local cable system better than what the Revue does. So I did not see the point of hooking it up to the output of a TiVo Premiere.


It is a lot cheaper and a lot smaller than a computer but I suspect a computer could do the same things. What I wanted was an easy way to access video and audio streaming sites for viewing on an HDTV that I can't access with TiVo and an easy way to come back to whatever I find that I might want to play from those sites. Just queue the programs I find that I want and no more browsing is necessary, I just play whatever I want to watch whenever I want to watch it. The queue works like the TiVo now playing list. That is exactly how I wanted the device to work, if you wanted something else then this may not appeal to you but so what, not every product will appeal to everybody. What I have noticed is I don't care about smart phones or viewing movies on 3" screens and as a result, I don't participate in threads about those products.

Google TV for me is absolutely nothing like surfing the net on TV ten years ago although if that is all you wanted to do with it, then it can be used in that manner and then you can complain that is what it is. Sort of like carrying a bicycle with saddle bags on your back and complaining it is no different than a backpack.


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## aaronwt

Chris Gerhard said:


> It is a lot cheaper and a lot smaller than a computer but I suspect a computer could do the same things. What I wanted was an easy way to access video and audio streaming sites for viewing on an HDTV that I can't access with TiVo and an easy way to come back to whatever I find that I might want to play from those sites. Just queue the programs I find that I want and no more browsing is necessary, I just play whatever I want to watch whenever I want to watch it. The queue works like the TiVo now playing list. That is exactly how I wanted the device to work, if you wanted something else then this may not appeal to you but so what, not every product will appeal to everybody. What I have noticed is I don't care about smart phones or viewing movies on 3" screens and as a result, I don't participate in threads about those products.
> 
> Google TV for me is absolutely nothing like surfing the net on TV ten years ago although if that is all you wanted to do with it, then it can be used in that manner and then you can complain that is what it is. Sort of like carrying a bicycle with saddle bags on your back and complaining it is no different than a backpack.


I also own other media players to compare it to. Which is one reason I'm not enamored with the Revue.


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## shwru980r

I think the advantage of the revue is that it's a set top box with the ablility to find video on the internet to watch for free and it has a $99 price point with no additional subscription fee. I don't expect a sophisticated application for viewing free content.


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## HeatherA

atmuscarella said:


> Yes the down side of buying a nice (and big) HD TV is that lots of SD stuff doesn't look so good.
> 
> When I got my 50" Plasma I retained my S2s and Dishnetwork for awhile finally said either I was going to upgrade to a HD dish DVR or dropping the service as I really didn't want to watch most of the stuff in SD and was pretty much only watching OTA HD. I ended up dropping Dish and my S2s sit there feeling rejected .


Yeah, the bedroom TV was the last to get an upgrade to HD... the old one weighed like 300 pounds! But yes, the SD looks horrid... but liveable since I hardly use that TiVo. I just keep it around because it's backup and only $6.95 a month. The new Sony will be used mostly for streaming so I'll suffer until I decide to ditch cable once and for all.


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## HeatherA

Chris Gerhard said:


> Just queue the programs I find that I want and no more browsing is necessary, I just play whatever I want to watch whenever I want to watch it. The queue works like the TiVo now playing list. That is exactly how I wanted the device to work,


I have not yet played with the queue, and wasn't really sure what it did. Can you give me more info on it. If it works the way you say it does, this makes the system even better in my eyes. Can I queue netflix, amazon selections to watch later?


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## HeatherA

aaronwt said:


> I also own other media players to compare it to. Which is one reason I'm not enamored with the Revue.


I can tell you that my Roku is sitting abandoned. No one wants it. My husband is happy with his Xbox 360 streaming, I am thrilled with my Sony Google TV and the Revue for streaming. So the Roku will not be used until one of my kids moves out or we give it to someone else... The media center PCs are pretty much regulated to media servers these days as our cable co went all digital and we get almost nothing as far as programming goes.

As someone that has always pushed her TV viewing to the limits of technology, I have to say the best feature of the Revue for me is the ability to overlay my TiVo. I don't have to switch remotes, I don't have to switch inputs. I just watch what I want, when I want and via whatever access I choose it from. My only complaint is that I now have too easy access to way too much TV and will never get through all I want to watch. ;-)


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## aaronwt

Try the Boxee Box with Navi-X. Tons of free content. Alot of people seem to like it. Plus there are many other applications on the Boxee Box giving access to more free movies TV shows etc.. Plus it handles stereo content correctly. Which is my biggest peeve with the Revue.

I have three Boxee Boxes and they are currently my favorite media players since they provide the best combination of local playback and online playback. Of course it also has some issues like every media player in existence has some issues. but for me I can overlook some issues and some i can't(like the stereo issue with the revue).

I'm currently using my Boxee Boxes in combination with the Roku2, my C200 and TiVos for the bulk of my media viewing. And since I don't watch discs any more, the Boxee Box and C200 are great for watching my BD ISOs from my servers over my network.


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## Chris Gerhard

HeatherA said:


> I have not yet played with the queue, and wasn't really sure what it did. Can you give me more info on it. If it works the way you say it does, this makes the system even better in my eyes. Can I queue netflix, amazon selections to watch later?


I spent about 3 hours with my Revue reading the long thread at Google TV Forum, Project Free TV, going to free sites and spending time finding programs I wanted to watch. I bookmarked the sites and queued any specific programs I wanted. After finding the program and having it ready to play, hit the star button on the keyboard and select queue and the link to that specific program is saved for retrieval at your convenience. I must have about 10 months of my internet streaming queued up.

As far as Amazon or Netflix, I don't use either service although from time to time I have Amazon Prime for reasons other than video on demand and will use that at some future date. I am not currently buying items from Amazon due to financial concerns and the Prime account isn't needed. It will be a nice free option when I do use it again. I don't know if using the Google TV queue will provide any benefit with those paid services but it won't hurt to try it and see.


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## Chris Gerhard

aaronwt said:


> Try the Boxee Box with Navi-X. Tons of free content. Alot of people seem to like it. Plus there are many other applications on the Boxee Box giving access to more free movies TV shows etc.. Plus it handles stereo content correctly. Which is my biggest peeve with the Revue.


The sites that block Google TV don't block Boxee? The messages usually indicate access by a traditional computer is required, not access by a streaming player other than Google TV.


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## HeatherA

The sites that block GTV don't bother me because I use Playon to access most of the content when needed. The quality usually is pretty good, not quite HDTV clear, but acceptable.


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## Chris Gerhard

I have been watching the marguee groups playing in the PGA tournament today using Google TV. I accessed the morning session with Tiger Woods through CBS Sports.com although it apparently routed me to the PGA site. It works great with Google TV and now I am watching the afternoon marguee group accessed through TNT but routed right back to the exact same site as the morning round. I wish I could find coverage of the full tournament, not the marguee groups although the afternoon group consists of the first three major winners.


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## BIGELLOW

I'm impressed by the Revue hardware itself. Sure, the Google TV software is nice, but I'm mostly impressed by the Revue as a device.

I have a MAINstageHD device for audio for movies. (It gives out better bass than my TV's built-in speakers and I don't have a fancy audio setup.) However, nearly all universal remotes I have purchased in the past simply did not have this device in their list, nor would it work with any of the codes. Even the "learning" remotes couldn't seem to figure out the IR signal this device's remote spits out.

With the Revue, however, I just did a search for the product... found it... added it.. and voila, I can now control the speaker system!

It was also really odd that I didn't need to use an IR blaster for it. It must emit the IR from the box itself. What was odd is, I covered the Revue with a towel and it still seemed to work. That must be some powerful IR it's firing out of there. To make sure it wasn't coming from the keyboard itself, I tested it (successfully) from the other room.

I'm hoping the App Store comes soon, because it will give me more to play with.


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## Chris Gerhard

BIGELLOW said:


> I'm impressed by the Revue hardware itself. Sure, the Google TV software is nice, but I'm mostly impressed by the Revue as a device.
> 
> I have a MAINstageHD device for audio for movies. (It gives out better bass than my TV's built-in speakers and I don't have a fancy audio setup.) However, nearly all universal remotes I have purchased in the past simply did not have this device in their list, nor would it work with any of the codes. Even the "learning" remotes couldn't seem to figure out the IR signal this device's remote spits out.
> 
> With the Revue, however, I just did a search for the product... found it... added it.. and voila, I can now control the speaker system!
> 
> It was also really odd that I didn't need to use an IR blaster for it. It must emit the IR from the box itself. What was odd is, I covered the Revue with a towel and it still seemed to work. That must be some powerful IR it's firing out of there. To make sure it wasn't coming from the keyboard itself, I tested it (successfully) from the other room.
> 
> I'm hoping the App Store comes soon, because it will give me more to play with.


The IR signal is emitted from the box, the blasters are to be used for devices not reached by the box. I agree and think this is a great piece of hardware for the price. I have been using the Amazon Prime streaming service for a couple of days now and it plays nice with Google TV.

Being cheap and reading all of the complaints I thought Best Buy might have some Logitech Revue customer returns and if so and at a good price, I was going to pick up a second one. I checked and there were none but it hasn't gotten near the end of the return period since the price drop to $99 and if I get close to a Best Buy again, I will check. Otherwise, the MSRP price is a great now and I will likely just order another new one from Logitech.


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## aaronwt

I'll be returning mine to BB soon. I was going to wait, but I'm going to go ahead return it and get the Logitech K800 keyboard. At least I'll be able to use it daily, unlike the Revue which just sits there unused since the HDMI audio output is borked.


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## Chris Gerhard

One minor value with the Google TV device when used with an unsubscribed TiVo as I am, it provides some program information and guide information. What's on indicates the current OTA programs and I can just select whichever program I want and the Google TV will switch to the TiVo and change the TiVo channel to that program. I can also bookmark a longer term TV guide from the internet to know what is on in advance. It doesn't mean much to me since I have subscribed TiVoHDs at the other displays and mostly only watch live sporting events on that display but it makes it easy to check what is on at any given time.


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