# The Unit "Whiplash" 4/12/09 *spoilers*



## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Wow! I guess Whiplash is going to be their new nemesis! Pretty dumb of them to transport him in a regular cop car.


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

I was disappointed they didn't resolve the Whiplash story, or Mac's "what was the last last question she asked" angle. Otherwise it was a great episode.

tk


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

My guess is it had something to do with Mac forgiving himself for Hector's death.


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

pendragn said:


> Mac's "what was the last last question she asked" angle.


Yeah, pretty annoying.

The opening scene was funny.

I'm surprised that they addressed Whiplash story so quickly. Too bad they didn't finish it.


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

So what was with the end with Jonas and new chick sharing a beer? Jonas was looking at her like he blamed her?


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## aintnosin (Jun 25, 2003)

DavidTigerFan said:


> Jonas was looking at her like he blamed her?


I didn't get that at all.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

It was more like a "We need to deal with the psychological fallout" look.

She was starting to display that she really was hurt, as she should be.

--Carlos V.


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## jb007 (Mar 17, 2001)

I still find this one of the most enjoyable hours on television! Disappointing it doesn't garner more viewers (or more posters here). When does the next episode air?


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## Snappa77 (Feb 14, 2004)

DavidTigerFan said:


> So what was with the end with Jonas and new chick sharing a beer? Jonas was looking at her like he blamed her?


Didn't get the last scenes with her, Jonas and Bob at all. I mean I couldn't read it or see what point the producers were making.


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## MrGreg (May 2, 2003)

jb007 said:


> I still find this one of the most enjoyable hours on television! Disappointing it doesn't garner more viewers (or more posters here). When does the next episode air?


2 weeks


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## hanumang (Jan 28, 2002)

Unbeliever said:


> It was more like a "We need to deal with the psychological fallout" look.


This was my reading as well. Also, I think Red Cap]s time in the Unit is done - if only because the boys feel guilty about not being able to protect her from one of their own.

Another excellent episode. Gotta love the rhythm to the dialogue. (I know the teleplay wasn't credited to David Mamet, but it was his signature style.)

I'm also curios as to what Baby-lady's pledge for Mack was. Especially since I can't remember him ever crying. Certainly not like that. (Dude's a good actor)


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## MrGreg (May 2, 2003)

The opening scene, with the simultaneous sniper shots, is timely considering that's exactly what some SEALs just did to the Somali pirates. Of course in real life, it was in the dark, and the bad guys were on a boat rocking up and down in the sea. Pretty amazing stuff.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

aintnosin said:


> I didn't get that at all.


Nor I....also feeling like he blamed her to some degree.

Overall, I thought this was one of their weaker episodes. I felt the whole Mack thing was over-dramatic and not too realistic (I realize this is tee-vee).

The whole bad-guy-escapes-from-the-hick-cops was WAY too predictable. As soon as Jonas mentioned they'd get custody from the locals, I thought "yeah, right...he's gone..."


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

I completely FFed the drama scenes with Mack and his stupid wife.


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## Eleanor (Dec 1, 2004)

I don't think that Jonas blames her. You have ot remember tha he has a daughter a little younger than her that could find herself in the same situation. I think of him being more reflective like that. 
When she said that she didn't want to pursue since she didn't want it on her record my heart dropped because of the unfortunate truth of the statement.
Not sure what was going on with Mac, but the forgiving himself for Hector does make some sense.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Count me as one who liked this one. Yeah I knew he would get away, My questions are:
Why were his hands cuffed in front?
Where did he get the orange jump suit?
Why didn't Someone tell the LEOs that he was likely to escape?


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## aintnosin (Jun 25, 2003)

Craigbob said:


> Why didn't Someone tell the LEOs that he was likely to escape?


Because he was a prisoner and that's generally assumed to be the case. The question is, did they know that he was a soldier with specialized training?


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## 59er (Mar 27, 2008)

Snappa77 said:


> Didn't get the last scenes with her, Jonas and Bob at all. I mean I couldn't read it or see what point the producers were making.


When Jonas and Bob walked into the room, Bob was saying "Don't Ask Don't Tell don't work." So for the rest of that scene, I felt like the guys were wondering if she was a secret lesbian. Not sure if that was the intended subtext or not.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

1. why would whiplash park the car with the trunk so far away from the storage unit? wouldnt he want to load up faster and have a full view of the road? Or are we to assume he was smart enough to know someone would be there and he knew he'd have to hide like that?

2. whats the reason they had to 'blow' the door when it was already rigged from the inside with explosives and they knew it? Just seems like they used a lotta stuff on that door 

3. so is everyone back home near base? the ep implied they all were around there but with mac and tiffy away, i wasnt sure

4. why is betty blue the one that is 'not' in an ep if someone sits out? Dont they like him or something?

5. what was the point of jonas hiding up on the roof and pointing a gun if he was just going to go down and talk anyway? I could even see him hiding in the shed and jumping out, but on the roof to just climb down seemed wrong esp when he didnt shoot him

6. why didnt, when she was clearly in danger in the parking lot, she just attack sam? certainly she had to have learned some non lethal takedowns and this definitely called for them.



Kamakzie said:


> My guess is it had something to do with Mac forgiving himself for Hector's death.


how would the woman in the church know about that (or did i miss mac talking about it?)



DavidTigerFan said:


> So what was with the end with Jonas and new chick sharing a beer? Jonas was looking at her like he blamed her?


i thought they shared beers when they had 'maalox moments' like a successful mission etc. But then again, when the other guy came in the room (i guess he's the only other member we've ever seen in there) he 'knew' what was going on and left...maybe jonas' look? I dont remember if she said something like he's barking up the wrong tree that may indicate she wasnt straight. Also the continual comments that women arent in the unit are a bit confusing and may have some hidden meaning.

that being said, i find it hard to believe this guy made his way into the unit to stalk her especially since she's only been here for a short time. isnt the unit something that takes a long time to get into?

and i dont think my other question was ever answered...on ep 1 with sam in, did the unit know exactly who sam was before they started the exercise?



aintnosin said:


> Because he was a prisoner and that's generally assumed to be the case. The question is, did they know that he was a soldier with specialized training?


they publicly knew he was military and i think you have to treat all military as a tad more dangerous than standard civilians. What would be the reason why the military couldnt take him right away anyway? arent MPs allowed off base? if not, how do they catch awols?

and where did the cigs come from anyway?


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## Ladd Morse (Feb 21, 2002)

Re: the ending scene with SnakeDoc staring at RedHat

It was either him waiting for her to let her emotions out, or more likely, him basically saying "there's more to this story than what just happened today. Tell me. And I'm not ordering you to do so, because I'm giving you the chance to volunteer the information".


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

newsposter said:


> how would the woman in the church know about that (or did i miss mac talking about it?)


She wouldn't know the exact details but she knew he was holding something back that really bothered him.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

aintnosin said:


> Because he was a prisoner and that's generally assumed to be the case. The question is, did they know that he was a soldier with specialized training?


That is exactly what I meant. Thanks.


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## hanumang (Jan 28, 2002)

newsposter said:


> 1. why would whiplash park the car with the trunk so far away from the storage unit?


I read that entire scene as he _was_ smart enough to know someone would be coming for him. Also, he wanted have a reason to be closer to the guy a few lockers over in case it was tactically necessary (as it turned out to be).



newsposter said:


> 2. whats the reason they had to 'blow' the door when it was already rigged from the inside with explosives and they knew it?


They (Jonas & SWAT) blew the door on the hinge side, after Sam told them (and we saw) that he booby-trapped the door on the lock & handle side. I suppose the idea was that if the booby-trap cords weren't extended, per se, those grenades wouldn't go off.

But yeah, even Jonas seemed surprised that there were no secondary explosions.



newsposter said:


> 3. so is everyone back home near base? the ep implied they all were around there but with mac and tiffy away, i wasnt sure


Not sure about the base situation myself but Mac & Tiffy were settling personal affairs (Mac's great aunt left him that house when she died).



newsposter said:


> 4. why is betty blue the one that is 'not' in an ep if someone sits out? Dont they like him or something?


The actor doesn't seem to be on a full 22-episode contract. My guess - and this is only a guess - is that his contract, even though he's a regular, means he's obligated for 13, maybe 15 episodes a season.



newsposter said:


> 5. what was the point of jonas hiding up on the roof and pointing a gun if he was just going to go down and talk anyway? I could even see him hiding in the shed and jumping out, but on the roof to just climb down seemed wrong esp when he didnt shoot him


Yeah, this bugged me as well. I suppose part of the issue is that Jonas wanted to be sure that Sam was flying solo. In case Sam brought someone else, Jonas might have simply neutralized Sam. But since Sam came solo, he wanted to capture Sam instead. But that's just me guessing.



newsposter said:


> 6. why didnt, when she was clearly in danger in the parking lot, she just attack sam? certainly she had to have learned some non lethal takedowns and this definitely called for them.


I can't recall Red Cap having those kinds of skills, at least not to the level of a Unit operator. Since her intro in the season premiere, she's been made out to be more on an intelligence officer (languages, tech, etc) than a pure shooter. If I'm remembering the season premiere correctly, she even seemed a touch tentative (being out of practice) when forced to use her firearm.

Besides, if she would have been able to neutralize Sam (even though he was totally lit) it would have come across to me as a silly moment.



newsposter said:


> Also the continual comments that women arent in the unit are a bit confusing and may have some hidden meaning.


I actually think they're setting us up for some type of resolution to this notion (no women in the unit) but Mamet likes the slow build-up. Personally, the very fact that she wouldn't be able to protect herself against a enemy (nevermind rogue) operative is probably what was weighing down on Jonas and Bob.



newsposter said:


> that being said, i find it hard to believe this guy made his way into the unit to stalk her especially since she's only been here for a short time. isnt the unit something that takes a long time to get into?
> 
> and i dont think my other question was ever answered...on ep 1 with sam in, did the unit know exactly who sam was before they started the exercise?


There is some amount of confusion, at least in my mind, about how long Sam has been under Jonas' (and the team's) wing. If I remember the episode right, Jonas made it seem like almost a year.

From reading Haney's book, once a candidate passes selection (about a 4 week process), there is a year-plus long training process needed so I have to think that Jonas was including that period. That would be prior to Sam being assigned to (our) Alpha team.

But of course, that makes no sense since when we first met Sam, he was able to fool Mack (who didn't know what he looked like, apparently) dressed as a police officer in order to gain entry into the building

So they knew his background (considering him a bit of a loner/cowboy from what I recall) but the timeline, at least according to the dialogue of this episode, makes little sense to me. Unless only Jonas is a Unit trainer and the rest of our Alpha team are not.



newsposter said:


> they publicly knew he was military and i think you have to treat all military as a tad more dangerous than standard civilians. What would be the reason why the military couldnt take him right away anyway?


Because the military was never at the car dealership. At least, no known military members were 

That fate - being processed by civilian authorities - was sealed once Sam's identity was passed to the media by his ex-girlfriend and the press arrived on the scene. Plus Sam's crimes were civilian ones - assault, etc - as far as anyone else knew.



newsposter said:


> and where did the cigs come from anyway?


He boosted them from someone during processing. (I took that scene as showing off what unit operators are capable of.)


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

hanumang said:


> But of course, that makes no sense since when we first met Sam, he was able to fool Mack (who didn't know what he looked like, apparently) dressed as a police officer in order to gain entry into the building.


Sam's whole initiation was hinky, at best. How did the Unit know exactly what he was going to do to stage the guy getting killed and all the other stuff. Maybe I missed something, but it seemed pretty contrived to me when I watched it.


hanumang said:


> Because the military was never at the car dealership. At least, no known military members were


Are you sure about that? I'm certain there were uniformed military carrying out the blowing of the door and the like.

tk


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## aintnosin (Jun 25, 2003)

pendragn said:


> Are you sure about that? I'm certain there were uniformed military carrying out the blowing of the door and the like.


That was a police SWAT team.


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## Timbeau (May 31, 2002)

Ladd Morse said:


> Re: the ending scene with SnakeDoc staring at RedHat
> 
> It was either him waiting for her to let her emotions out, or more likely, him basically saying "there's more to this story than what just happened today. Tell me. And I'm not ordering you to do so, because I'm giving you the chance to volunteer the information".


That was exactly what I was thinking but I couldn't see where Jonas had any basis for thinking there was more to it. The only thing I could think of was the pictures that Whiplash had, maybe they indicated some previous contact or something. All in all, it was a weird scene.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

aintnosin said:


> That was a police SWAT team.


oh so the cops take orders from ryan now?  hmmmm usually on shows you show turf wars not such good cooperation


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

hanumang said:


> That fate - being processed by civilian authorities - was sealed once Sam's identity was passed to the media by his ex-girlfriend and the press arrived on the scene. Plus Sam's crimes were civilian ones - assault, etc - as far as anyone else knew.


i didnt remember the timing of the release of info...i thought the instant he called his gf she called the press and they knew before he was taken down


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

I agree with others that the final scene was weird. I don't think they did a very good job conveying whatever it is they wanted to convey, because even reading all these theories about what it was, the only thing that it looked like to me was that Jonas and Bob somehow blamed her for what happened and it also seemed to me like the way the final scenes were edited, maybe Jonas knew/had something to do with Sam escaping. Which made absolutely no sense, given the rest of the episode.


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

hanumang said:


> I actually think they're setting us up for some type of resolution to this notion (no women in the unit) but Mamet likes the slow build-up. Personally, the very fact that she wouldn't be able to protect herself against a enemy (nevermind rogue) operative is probably what was weighing down on Jonas and Bob.


That rings true to me. But I also think there's something else going on, perhaps as others have suggested, a need to unwind the situation.

It would be in poor taste if they banished her from her support role in the unit just because she didn't defend herself better against Sam in a casual situation. eta; I could see it if she lost it on a mission, of course.
Maybe investing in getting her fighting skills up to par might be an interesting angle.

I'd like to think they'd reconsider the "no women in the unit' idea.


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

Timbeau said:


> That was exactly what I was thinking but I couldn't see where Jonas had any basis for thinking there was more to it. The only thing I could think of was the pictures that Whiplash had, maybe they indicated some previous contact or something. All in all, it was a weird scene.


I think it was the pictures too. Jonas saw them, and wondered how Whiplash had such varied pictures of her in different situations, etc. It was obvious it wasn't a one time photo session.

I think Jonas thinks there's a history there and was giving her a chance to tell him about it.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

newsposter said:


> whats the reason they had to 'blow' the door when it was already rigged from the inside with explosives and they knew it? Just seems like they used a lotta stuff on that door


I think it was because they had to force the situation (per Ryan's orders), and in order to safely force entry they had to ensure that they could detonate the booby traps from a safe distance, which meant blowing the door.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Also, as to the last scene with Jonas, Bob, and RedHat, I agree that it can be interpreted in many different ways (as evidenced here), but I go the impression that everyone was reflecting on exactly why there are no women in the Unit. At some point, something is bound to happen like what happened here, and the female is at a significanty disadvantage when it does. And the Unit can't afford to have to one of its members not able to protect itself from another member.


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

Point by point;


> At some point, something is bound to happen like what happened here, and the female is at a significanty disadvantage when it does.


let's see, 
Yep, females are at a greater risk for rape then men. Honestly anyone, male or female who gets into that line of work who doesn't think about the rape risk is fooling themselves. 
But wait, are you implying it's inveitable men in the unit would rape a female unit member?



> And the Unit can't afford to have to one of its members not able to protect itself from another member.


So...to be in the Unit a member must be able to defend against an unexpected attack by any of the other unit members? Really? 
CoolBreaze & DirtDiver are walking in a parking lot. DirtDiver takes CoolBreeze out. Does Coolbreeze deserve not to be in the unit because of DirtDiver's actions?

Further, the correct term in refurning to a person is his/herSELF, people are not an it.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

DreadPirateRob said:


> I think it was because they had to force the situation (per Ryan's orders), and in order to safely force entry they had to ensure that they could detonate the booby traps from a safe distance, which meant blowing the door.


ah ok, so they didnt have a long enough pole to open the door..gotcha


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

alyssa said:


> Point by point;
> 
> let's see,
> Yep, females are at a greater risk for rape then men. Honestly anyone, male or female who gets into that line of work who doesn't think about the rape risk is fooling themselves.
> But wait, are you implying it's inveitable men in the unit would rape a female unit member?


Of course not. But just because it isn't inevitable doesn't mean that it's not foreseeable.



alyssa said:


> So...to be in the Unit a member must be able to defend against an unexpected attack by any of the other unit members? Really?
> CoolBreaze & DirtDiver are walking in a parking lot. DirtDiver takes CoolBreeze out. Does Coolbreeze deserve not to be in the unit because of DirtDiver's actions?


I wrote that post in a hurry (hence the awkward phrasing and typos), and didn't really get to offer a more nuanced explanation.

In your scenario, of course not - it's hard to defend against a surprise attack. But that's not precisely what happened between Red Cap and Whiplash, though, is it? He didn't exactly surprise her out of nowhere (since he had been harassing her and following her), and it wasn't a one blow/shot incapacitation. She had the time to fight back, but couldn't. And no one really expects her to - due to inherent strength advantages that men have, a fight between a male and female of similar size and similar training/fighting ability is going to be won by the male 9 times out of 10.

And let's not forget that Red Cap has never actually gone through Unit training - she was undercover CIA (or somesuch) when she met Snake Doc and the rest, and she was given pseudo-status (though not as a shooter), but she hasn't had to prove that she can physically cut it like everyone else in the Unit has.

So what I think was going through Jonas and Bob's minds during that last scene is that maybe it's not such a great idea that Red Cap be a Unit member after all, which they both don't like to admit because she has undoubtedly been an asset on some missions, and almost gave up her career in order to help save Jonas' daughter. So obviously both of them aren't happy with this realization. But they also know that they will always see her as a liability in the field, and in that respect, know that they won't be able to truly trust and rely on her like they would any other member.



alyssa said:


> Further, the correct term in refurning to a person is his/herSELF, people are not an it.


You were doing fine until this. But to correct someone's grammar in a post replete with spelling and grammatical errors is obnoxious, not to mention ironic.

Besides, his/herself is cumbersome to use.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

alyssa said:


> Point by point;
> 
> let's see,
> Yep, females are at a greater risk for rape then men. Honestly anyone, male or female who gets into that line of work who doesn't think about the rape risk is fooling themselves.
> ...


A bit defensive aren't you? DPR is saying that in elite fighters, a woman will always be at a distinct disadvantage. There physical reasons why women don't hold combat positions in the US military. Now take the elite of those (Seals, fictional UNIT, etc) and these apply even more.

Frank


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Of course not. But just because it isn't inevitable doesn't mean that it's not foreseeable.


True, but I'd like to think rape between co-members of a unit is a rare occurrence. When & if it does occur then the offending party needs to be punished, not the victim. Granted it does bring up the 'what to do going forward issues' i.e. should a women be in the unit, what is an acceptable risk and most importantly, is it worth the gain. I fall into the camp that having RedCap in the Unit is worth the effort because she has an skill base the guys are lacking. There may be another woman better suited but not as pretty.



DreadPirateRob said:


> I wrote that post in a hurry (hence the awkward phrasing and typos), and didn't really get to offer a more nuanced explanation.


I completely understand the 'posting in a hurry' issue. I posted from work & was a bit rushed, hence the abysmal spelling errors. 



DreadPirateRob said:


> In your scenario, of course not - it's hard to defend against a surprise attack. But that's not precisely what happened between Red Cap and Whiplash, though, is it? He didn't exactly surprise her out of nowhere (since he had been harassing her and following her), and it wasn't a one blow/shot incapacitation. She had the time to fight back, but couldn't. And no one really expects her to - due to inherent strength advantages that men have, a fight between a male and female of similar size and similar training/fighting ability is going to be won by the male 9 times out of 10. And let's not forget that Red Cap has never actually gone through Unit training - she was undercover CIA (or somesuch) when she met Snake Doc and the rest, and she was given pseudo-status (though not as a shooter), but she hasn't had to prove that she can physically cut it like everyone else in the Unit has.
> So what I think was going through Jonas and Bob's minds during that last scene is that maybe it's not such a great idea that Red Cap be a Unit member after all, which they both don't like to admit because she has undoubtedly been an asset on some missions, and almost gave up her career in order to help save Jonas' daughter. So obviously both of them aren't happy with this realization. But they also know that they will always see her as a liability in the field, and in that respect, know that they won't be able to truly trust and rely on her like they would any other member.


True the RedCap & Whiplash incident wasn't a one blow scenario. It is still hard when attacked to move from a 'this is my friend' frame of mind to a I need to take this person out'. As you pointed out RedCap doesn't have the extensive fight training that the other members have. Further, I do expect a female member of the Unit to be able to hold her own against men of equal size & training in a combat situation. Red Cap may not be the correct person for the Unit due to training etc., but she does add a skill set very useful to scenario building in certain situations. Is she a shooter, no. However it seems as tho everyone in the Unit has a specialty; medic, computer etc. in addition to being a shooter. Red Caps specialty seems to be in infiltration. Is that skill set worth the risk? Maybe, maybe not depends on the scenario. But it needs to be valued and assessed in a gender neutral way so that it does not hamper the Units effectiveness.

Regarding the last bit, itself/herself issue, I agree you were doing fine until the last bit. I found the term itself to be obnoxious and degrading when referring to a person. You seem to find my lack of spelling & grammar to be equally obnoxious and ironic. Can we leave the topic as a draw & agree it is worth the tedium to use the cumbersome phrase herself when referring to women. 



Frank said:


> A bit defensive aren't you?


Annoyed is a better descriptive. How would you feel if your ethic base/tribe/gender was called an "it"? Bottom line, I'm willing to accept his explanation as long as he understands why it annoys people.


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