# 20.3.1 Update Available



## CoxInPHX

news4me2 said:


> Before Update-
> Software Version: 20.2.2.1-01-2-7xx
> Flash Player Version: 20-2-2-mr/2012.10.02-1005
> HD Menu Software Version: b-iris-2-2-mr/2012.11.16-1437
> 
> After *Update-
> Software Version: 20.3.1*-01-2-7xx
> Flash Player Version: quattro-2-3/2013.04.24-1805
> HD Menu Software Version: b-iris-2-3/2013.03.12-1217


Update took 25min after reboot.


*New Functionality - Improvements*
MLBtv added

Initiating a recording from the guide is more fluid. No "please wait" box pops up and the guide seems to refresh in a cleaner manner. - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9664109#post9664109

Reports of improved Channel Surfing (faster channel changes)

*Bugs - Previously reported* but still not fixed with this update
*Not Fixed:* Watching a program (using trick-play with LiveTV from the buffer) while the same program is currently recording, still dumps out to LiveTV when the recording program's time-slot ends. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9470638#post9470638
(Note: Buffer is still lost when a new recording begins, back-to-back recordings (using trick-play with LiveTV from the buffer) may sometimes seamlessly transition to the next program, but the behavior is not consistent)
Stop and Delete a current recording in an ARWL with one recording does not actually delete the group (even though the prompt says it will), you still have to delete it separately. - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9685155#post9685155
This bug only appears when the Video Window is turned off. While watching a current recording, if you go into the guide and try to schedule a new recording with options or modify any other scheduled recording (changing pad times etc. in the options screen), when you get done you're kicked out of the recording and back into live TV for that channel. This also happens when watching completed recordings but you get sent to the last active channel. - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9687299#post9687299

*Bugs - Fixed*
Fixed - Minimum File Size Bug (of 2.05GB/.5Hr-SD / 4.1GB/.5Hr-HD) - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=500526
*>>*This bug also caused recordings to be deleted prematurely.
EAS Test messages now fully scroll to end, 20.2.2 introduced a bug were the message exited less than 1/2 way through.
Program Thumbnail no longer truncates the Episode# when the Season# is 10 or greater as long as the Episode# is only 2 digits. Three digit Episode#'s still get truncated when the Season# is 10 or greater.
SD Menus: Deleting shows in a Folder using the Clear button no longer skips a line
SD Menus: Scheduling a show manually from a WishList no longer adds the recorded show under My Shows as well as the Wishlist folder

*Bugs - Newly Introduced*
The "One Moment" screen launches in HD then quickly changes resolution to blurry.
Info Bar now only shows 3 lines of text for the program description, then truncates the remaining. Four lines of text may/will initially display but quickly shortens to 3 lines. - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9665852#post9665852
MRS (Streaming) Info Bar Missing Items: The following items are missing in the Info Bar when viewing using MRV from a remote Series 4. - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9688423#post9688423
Season# and Episode# (I recall these were missing also in 20.2.2.1)
Date & Time of recording *New*
Program Categories (i.e. Sitcom, Drama, Horror, Suspense, etc) *New*, (Note: the commas are still shown though, between were the Categories should be)
Thumbs Rating

Deleting items from the RDF now takes 5 seconds for the list to repopulate, before the next item can be deleted.
Signal Meter appears not to be accurate and will report the same Signal Level for all channels. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9678493#post9678493
Reports of Audio loss or drop-outs when Dolby is selected and LiveTV trick-play functions are used, esp Skip-to-end. Loss of Audio also can occur when first turning TV on, or switching Input to the TiVo, from another source. I have PCM Audio selected and also have experienced these issues, so it is not strictly the Dolby setting.
One bug is that after a restart/reboot the foreground tuner will lose audio, until the channel is changed.
There is another bug were the Audio is lost when the HDMI connection is not active, so turning off the TV and back on, the Audio on the foreground tuner is lost until trick-play is used (FF/RW) 


*Changes* but not necessarily Bugs
MBT (MotherBoard Temp) no longer has a temperature degree symbol ° and no longer has the (Normal) status, (the C for Celsius was removed in a prior update).
Network/Phone text changed to just Network on 2 tuner Premieres
Font size increase in Info Bar for Other Tuner(s) info


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## gweempose

Very cool! I assume you registered your TSN on the priority update page.


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## MeInDallas

Just downloaded it here too. Cant reboot yet because I have stuff recording


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## JWhites

MeInDallas said:


> Just downloaded it here too. Cant reboot yet because I have stuff recording


Is there an order these updates are being taken in? Like those who got the update first registered their TSN's first?


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## MeInDallas

Did you register your Tivo's on the priority page? If you did just go make a manual connection and it will probably download for you. If not then you might get it in the next couple of days.


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## spaldingclan

Was hoping for MLB.tv but no go. Can't see anything differnt


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## JWhites

MeInDallas said:


> Did you register your Tivo's on the priority page? If you did just go make a manual connection and it will probably download for you. If not then you might get it in the next couple of days.


I did Tuesday evening. I did a manual connection 4 times at 2 hour intervals on my Premiere 4 and no luck  I'll try the Premiere and see if anything comes of it. Personally the HDUI is really quite fast already so I'd be interested to see any differences.


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## MeInDallas

One of them I just rebooted and installed, and I noticed something new in the System Info screen thats not on the others, and its called

"Collab Slice Version: CP_Standard_t2 v.266" 

No idea what it means.


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## MeInDallas

JWhites said:


> I did Tuesday evening. I did a manual connection 4 times at 2 hour intervals on my Premiere 4 and no luck  I'll try the Premiere and see if anything comes of it. Personally the HDUI is really quite fast already so I'd be interested to see any differences.


I added mine back on the 9th which was last Thursday. You shouldnt be too far behind, but I'm not even sure how they roll it out to people.


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## JWhites

Was there any messages in the message center like there was for the Fall 2012 update which detailed things?


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## MeInDallas

Not on my first one. I looked for that but nothing, just the software version has changed. I'm gonna do the 4 tuner one after this show gets thru recording.


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## JWhites

ok, thanks and good luck.


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## mrsean

I really hope the fix for the random rebooting is in the new update. My TP4 just rebooted on it's own again last night - so frustrating.


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## lgnad

The waiting is killing me... its been on 'preparing to load' for a while now 

I hope it fixes the random reboot too... got it the other night during prime time with three recordings going.


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## Am_I_Evil

installing now


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## JWhites

I personally hope it doesn't _bring _random reboots to me. Everything's been smooth sailing for me prior to the update.


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## MeInDallas

Looks like they have fixed the "no suggestions" issue. I have almost 4 pages right away with the tuning adapter plugged in 

Edit: Nevermind I take that back, they were gone when I looked again


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## JWhites

What do you mean? I wasn't aware of any issues. Could you elaborate please?


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## MeInDallas

JWhites said:


> What do you mean? I wasn't aware of any issues. Could you elaborate please?


Heres some threads about it:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=500905&highlight=suggestions

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=500150&highlight=suggestions

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=500292&highlight=suggestions


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## JWhites

Ah I see. I have suggestions turned off. Nonetheless I'm glad it's been corrected for those who use it


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## Darkev

I don't recall my machines randomly rebooting. On occasion if I reboot my router, the Premiere and Premiere XL will lock up. It will turn on OK, but the minute I press the TiVo button to get my menu, the miniature screen goes in the right upper corner as usual, and the rest of the screen remains blue forever. It's like it's frozen. That's the only issue I've experienced. Recordings will still complete if they are in progress. The remedy was to pull the plug for a few seconds and plug back in. This only happened maybe once per month.

I use antenna only. I have no cable. I wonder if these random reboots are happening to people who use cable cards? Maybe it's a hardware issue based on some odd signal coming from the cable company?

I received the new version on one of my machines and haven't noticed a single thing different yet. Sometimes TiVo sends a TiVo message with their update so you can read what the update entails. I received no message with this update. I've only had it for 2 days. I may notice something in time. Maybe the monthly lockup after rebooting my router will be gone away.


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## SugarBowl

Using page up/down in the guide seems very fast now. 

Transitioning from full screen tv to the guide and back, I no longer have audio dropouts from the live TV sound.


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## compnurd

just finished the update on all 3..


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## Aero 1

the only thing that it fixed for me on one of my tivos is that i know have HD menu when i browse my other premiere, but it didnt fix it on the other premiere.


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## jrtroo

spaldingclan said:


> Was hoping for MLB.tv but no go. Can't see anything differnt


I would doubt a new app would show up so quickly. Normally that will become available on all boxes at the same time.


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## sbiller

Anyone receive the update on the Mini or does it even apply to the Mini?


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## lessd

sbiller said:


> Anyone receive the update on the Mini or does it even apply to the Mini?


Good question I just was going to ask, after all my Tivos were updated I tried to update my Mini, nothing happened, except for software updates why does the Mini call in at all ?


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## sbiller

lessd said:


> Good question I just was going to ask, after all my Tivos were updated I tried to update my Mini, nothing happened, except for software updates why does the Mini call in at all ?


Did anyone try to add their Mini to the Priority Update page?


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## JWhites

lessd said:


> Good question I just was going to ask, after all my Tivos were updated I tried to update my Mini, nothing happened, except for software updates why does the Mini call in at all ?


Account status updates since a service plan is required for it? That's a good question.



SugarBowl said:


> Using page up/down in the guide seems very fast now.
> 
> Transitioning from full screen tv to the guide and back, I no longer have audio dropouts from the live TV sound.


Is that with the audio setting on Dolby Digital and connected via HDMI to the television with sound coming from the television? That's where I've noticed the audio dropping out to be the worst, and found changing to PCM audio to lessen the severity of it.


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## sbiller

sbiller said:


> Did anyone try to add their Mini to the Priority Update page?


Never mind... I just tried to add my Mini to the TiVo Priority Page and it gives an error message...



> Your TiVo DVR is not eligible for an early upgrade. Only TiVo Premiere, Premiere XL or Premiere Elite can be upgraded to the new software.


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## Am_I_Evil

I've got the update on my mini...20.3.1-01-6-A92


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## jhilla

I added my TSN for my Premiere XL, said it would arrive in 3 days. So what will come first my update or Plants Vs. Zombies Adventures on FB. I want both, is it soo wrong to not want to wait..


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## rainwater

lessd said:


> Good question I just was going to ask, after all my Tivos were updated I tried to update my Mini, nothing happened, except for software updates why does the Mini call in at all ?


It gets the current account status. It also gets a list of boxes on the account it is authorized to stream from. I would imagine there is quite a bit of configuration it gets from the connection as well.


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## tomhorsley

But the real question is: Does this fix the random "channel not authorized" messages I get for no apparent reason (which usually require me to reboot the unit to get the channels back)?


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## aaronwt

JWhites said:


> Account status updates since a service plan is required for it? That's a good question.
> 
> Is that with the audio setting on Dolby Digital and connected via HDMI to the television with sound coming from the television? That's where I've noticed the audio dropping out to be the worst, and found changing to PCM audio to lessen the severity of it.


All my content on FiOS is DD and the audio only drops out around 20% of the time between transisitioning to full screen and back with the previous software. I haven't checked it with the new software yet.My TiVos got the update yesterday and had pending restart. But I never looked this morning to make sure they were installed last night.


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## JWhites

tomhorsley said:


> But the real question is: Does this fix the random "channel not authorized" messages I get for no apparent reason (which usually require me to reboot the unit to get the channels back)?


Do you happen to have a Cisco/Scientific Atlanta cablecard? If so that's an issue with the cablecard firmware. Comcast has been rolling out a firmware update to their customers that fixes that issue, I would imagine other cable providers who also use this brand of cablecard are rolling out this same firmware update since it was a known issue that was addressed in the Cisco firmware release notes.



Am_I_Evil said:


> I've got the update on my mini...20.3.1-01-6-A92


Any changes you've noticed on the Mini since receiving this update?


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## mr_smits

Am_I_Evil said:


> I've got the update on my mini...20.3.1-01-6-A92


A mini update? Notice any changes? Netflix?


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## moyekj

mr_smits said:


> A mini update? Notice any changes? Netflix?


 I wouldn't read too much into it. There may be nothing specific to Mini. The Mini just follows the same software track as the other series 4 devices. Netflix on the Mini would be nice to have ...


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## MPSAN

I got the update on my P4 (did not check my XL4 yet) and can not say that I noticed anything except having to redo my SSPS88S feature!


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## Am_I_Evil

mr_smits said:


> A mini update? Notice any changes? Netflix?


granted i haven't delved too much into it, but just like on my premiere 4 i don't really notice too much difference...i'm sure there is some stuff changed but not really sure what...hopefully there's a change-log at some point...


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## JWhites

Ok received the update on my Premiere and Premiere 4 and discovered if you go into settings it no longer says "Network/Phone" It just says "Network" Also discovered if you are disconnected from the Network you are able to access the "choose network hookup" screen and the on screen diagram is no longer of a TiVo Premiere or TiVo Premiere 4/XL4 but of what seems to be the back of a TiVo Preview. I too noticed the "Collab Slice Version: CP_Standard_t2 v.266" in System Info. I also noticed the MBT (which I assume is MotherBoard Temp) now no longer has a temperature degree symbol ° and no longer has the (Normal) status, but just the number which is still in Celsius. This kinda bothers me since it was something I liked knowing.

I also noticed that in the channel banner when you scroll down to audio tracks, it now lists each language and Dolby Digital, for example English - Dolby Digital, French - Dolby Digital, Spanish - Dolby Digital. Before the update I think it was just English, French, Spanish.

Audio dropout and video blanking out issue still occurs when going in and out of TiVo Central. 

I did notice what mrizzo80 mentioned regarding the larger font in the "what's recording on the other tuners via info button" screen. Not sure I'm a fan of that as I believe it should be uniform with the other text size in the channel banner like it was before the update. Someone has some explaining to do as to what they were thinking and why they did what they did. Not a big fan of this either.

Personally after seeing what I've seen, I'd rather just have the old version back and recommend skipping this update. They didn't even update any of the apps and I'm definitely not a big fan of the fuzzy "One Moment" loading screen, I mean seriously what were they thinking, how could they have let something like that through testing.


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## mrizzo80

I noticed a few small things:

New (I think): Initiating a recording from the guide seems more fluid. No "please wait" box pops up and the guide seems to refresh in a cleaner manner.

New (I think): The font seems bigger for what's recording on the other tuners (via the Info button).

Bug: (intermittent) screen flickers when exiting out of the guide when watching TV.

Fix: channel changing is *much* quicker. It will accept Channel Up/Down commands as fast as you can hit the button. They broke this in the Fall 2012 update.


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## XIBM

MPSAN said:


> I got the update on my P4 (did not check my XL4 yet) and can not say that I noticed anything except having to redo my SSPS88S feature!


What us the SSPS88S feature?


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## OTA_ONLY_USER

Any idea if the
"this recording was deleted because it had expired"
premature deletion problem with Season Pass is now fixed?


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## MPSAN

XIBM said:


> What us the SSPS88S feature?


OH, that restores the function when you hit fast forward or revers a 4th time it starts playing like my Series 3's do.

I am X big iron!


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## Bwatford141

I just tried to force a connect and it said that it couldn't connect until after a scheduled software update update occurs at 2am.


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## JWhites

I noticed that myself after the software had downloaded but before it was put in place, so I did a reboot. 15 minutes later it updated.

Is this the final version of the software or will the final version be rolled out at the end of the month so they can change some stuff?


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## jaredmwright

Couple of things I noticed. Will need confirmation from others if these were in previous updates:

-When the picture in picture is displayed when viewing the guide, it now shows the channel number in the lower left corner of the picture of whats playing. 

-When viewing the guide, hitting play has the same effect as hitting zoom, it takes you to whats playing which I really like.


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## JWhites

From what I've noticed, the channel number and call letters were there in the video in the window of a live channel before the update.

Before and after the update, If I go into the guide and scroll up or down in the currently airing program and hit the play button it automatically takes me to the program that is highlighted. I just tried it and that's what happened. When I did it again and hit the zoom button instead of the play button, it brought the video in the window full screen again.


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## ajwees41

JWhites said:


> I noticed that myself after the software had downloaded but before it was put in place, so I did a reboot. 15 minutes later it updated.
> 
> Is this the final version of the software or will the final version be rolled out at the end of the month so they can change some stuff?


what do you mean final version? Tivo is always updating software just not as fast.


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## JWhites

What I mean is that so far I haven't seen anything in this update really worth it being released, and what was done such as the blurry "One Moment" screen and oversized text in the info bar for the other tuners, not to mention no performance improvement or HDUI improvement, makes me wonder if this is more of a half finished beta release to get our feedback so adjustments can be made. Something is definitely going on with the program description in the info bar because it seems less text information is being displayed before it's clipped and an ellipses is used. The MBT: 40 just looks silly and kinda useless without the degree symbol and (status) status. The audio cutting out issue which switching back and forth from the TiVo Central screen has still not been correct. As I've said before I'm not a big fan of what they did to the network hookup diagrams, using a TiVo Preview diagram on the Premiere and Premiere 4 models when what was previously in place worked fine. If I could skip this update all together and go back to the October 2012 release I would.


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## tim316

got the update today an hour or so ago.the channel tuning problem hasnt gone away.
im still getting paused or black screens on random channels.i have to channel up and back down a few times to get the missing channel to appear.BIG DISAPPOINTMENT WITH TIVO!!!


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## JWhites

As I think I've said before, it's a possible issue with the cablecard firmware if you are referring to a "not authorized" or "channel not found" error message and you are using a Cisco/SA card.


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## JWhites

After using my Premieres for the past 12 hours with this new software, I'm literally considering returning it to BestBuy. Over all the issues that I've pointed out, the one that is in my face every single time I watch a show is the program description in the info banner getting truncated way too much, more then it needs to be. This was not a problem in the last software update and I'm so upset I can't even sleep. This feels like one of the greatest mistakes I've ever made.


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## NotNowChief

Mine downloaded sometime in the last few days and installed when the wife went to watch TV last night. She complained it took about an hour, but that could have been only 5 minutes (drama!). Heaven forbid she had to use one of the other 2 TiVos in the house and watch something else for a little while 

My fingers are crossed for Dynamic Tuner Allocation in the Fall 2013 update. I'm not holding my breath , but I'm keeping my fingers crossed  .


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## slowbiscuit

mrizzo80 said:


> I noticed a few small things:
> 
> New (I think): Initiating a recording from the guide seems more fluid. No "please wait" box pops up and the guide seems to refresh in a cleaner manner.


Got the update on my Elite yesterday and this was the only thing I noticed after a night of use, also going through some of the menus and apps to see if anything new was added. Before when you scheduled a record from guide it would briefly interrupt the video, now it doesn't.

That's all I saw - nothing's new or faster in the HDUI, apps like YouTube are still as slow as molasses etc. I will have to say that the YouTube app is way better than the crap they had before but that's unrelated to this change.

As always, sure would be nice to get a changelog from Tivo for what they're doing instead of blindly trying to figure out what's different.


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## JoeKustra

I'm still waiting, but two observations from another forum:

"I have noticed two changes:

1. When selecting "A" option while in the grid; the order from left to right for the channels listed are; All, MyChannels, and Favorites (whoopee). Guess they could just make it circular, it really does not matter what order they are in.

2. And of course "another bug" - Really TiVo do they not even test this stuff. New Bug: When going into "signal meter" it now freezes after selecting a couple of channels and does not report real results - thus ALL channels now report the same thing for signal strength. Once the signal strength meter is frozen; it becomes frozen in DVR Diagnostics too. The only way I know to fix it, is to unplug reboot."


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## compnurd

slowbiscuit said:


> Got the update on my Elite yesterday and this was the only thing I noticed after a night of use, also going through some of the menus and apps to see if anything new was added. Before when you scheduled a record from guide it would briefly interrupt the video, now it doesn't.
> 
> That's all I saw - nothing's new or faster in the HDUI, apps like YouTube are still as slow as molasses etc. I will have to say that the YouTube app is way better than the crap they had before but that's unrelated to this change.
> 
> As always, sure would be nice to get a changelog from Tivo for what they're doing instead of blindly trying to figure out what's different.


I am not sure this is the Spring update and may be a primer/bug update. Usually Margret lately is all over twitter when there is a update.. I have asked her


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## Darkev

tim316 said:


> got the update today an hour or so ago.the channel tuning problem hasnt gone away.
> im still getting paused or black screens on random channels.i have to channel up and back down a few times to get the missing channel to appear.BIG DISAPPOINTMENT WITH TIVO!!!


I used to have this happen to channel 6 over the air. When I tuned up from channel 4 to 6 I would have no problem, but if I tuned down from channel 11 to 6 I would get a black screen. Audio would be OK, but the screen would be black. It turns out it was an issue with Global TV transmitting something goofy in their signal. Once Global fixed that I have not seen this happen again. This was over a year ago - I have not seen it since.


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## aaronwt

I really have not noticed anything different in my use with the new update.
Although if anything it seems like the audio is dropping out more often now than it did before when going back and forth from the window.


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## dave13077

tim316 said:


> got the update today an hour or so ago.the channel tuning problem hasnt gone away.
> im still getting paused or black screens on random channels.i have to channel up and back down a few times to get the missing channel to appear.BIG DISAPPOINTMENT WITH TIVO!!!


+1


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## compnurd

tim316 said:


> got the update today an hour or so ago.the channel tuning problem hasnt gone away.
> im still getting paused or black screens on random channels.i have to channel up and back down a few times to get the missing channel to appear.BIG DISAPPOINTMENT WITH TIVO!!!


Someone else has posted several times this may be a firmware issue with Cisco Cable cards and a firmware update from Cisco Specifically addressed this issue


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## Bierboy

SugarBowl said:


> Using page up/down in the guide seems very fast now.
> 
> *Transitioning from full screen tv to the guide and back, I no longer have audio dropouts from the live TV sound.*


:up::up::up: That alone, to me, is worth the update...


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## Bierboy

mrizzo80 said:


> ...New (I think): The font seems bigger for what's recording on the other tuners (via the Info button).
> 
> Bug: (intermittent) screen flickers when exiting out of the guide when watching TV....


Font is definitely bigger for what's recording on the other tuners.
No flicker here on exit from guide.


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## JWhites

Bierboy said:


> :up::up::up: That alone, to me, is worth the update...


I'm still seeing this so I'm not quite sure it was actually taken care of.



compnurd said:


> I am not sure this is the Spring update and may be a primer/bug update. Usually Margret lately is all over twitter when there is a update.. I have asked her


I've been corresponding with her via email the past few days but haven't heard back from her since Wednesday. I'm really hoping that this is what you say it is as a primer and not the actual Spring update since the truncated program description alone makes watching aggregating and I'm not sure I'd be able to wait until the Fall 2013 update (if there even is one) without me jumping off of a very tall building. Is this common for them to release a primer updates? Then again I would wonder why they'd even release this in the first place if it wasn't there intention to call it the Spring 2013 update. Next month is June and usually that leans more towards the Summer.


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## sharkster

tomhorsley said:


> But the real question is: Does this fix the random "channel not authorized" messages I get for no apparent reason (which usually require me to reboot the unit to get the channels back)?


This is something I'm wondering too. But I'm afraid to do anything because I've actually had about 5 good weeks.

Only twice, in the last several weeks, have I had a channel go away, but only momentarily. The first time it paused itself, changed to black, banner saying 'not authorized, etc' went up, then it was back. Second time it happened I switched tuners and went back, and all was well again. That was a relief as I was getting geared up for another major hassle, or knowing that it was baaaack. This is the worst Tivo problem I've had in 9+ years. Well, maybe second to when my Series 2 Tivos both stopped being able to properly channel change at the same time and nobody could figure that out so I finally replaced them with Premieres.

BTW, I don't have the adapter OR cable co that another poster mentioned as the source of the problem. I think this has been a Tivo software problem because a lot of us have been having it, with various equipment and cable companies.


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## JWhites

This isn't a Comcast issue but a cablecard firmware issue. Everyone who has mentioned having this problem on both threads never seem to report back as to if they are using a Cisco or Scientific Atlanta cablecard or not. I lean towards it being the cablecard firmware issue since it's description sounds exactly like the issue that was addressed in the firmware update that people on other forums were having on Moxi's and Cisco set top boxes and home theater PC's all of which were using the same cablecard manufacturer.


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## JWhites

More customers need to call into TiVo tech support in order for TiVo engineers to start addressing these problems we're having.


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## compnurd

sharkster said:


> This is something I'm wondering too. But I'm afraid to do anything because I've actually had about 5 good weeks.
> 
> Only twice, in the last several weeks, have I had a channel go away, but only momentarily. The first time it paused itself, changed to black, banner saying 'not authorized, etc' went up, then it was back. Second time it happened I switched tuners and went back, and all was well again. That was a relief as I was getting geared up for another major hassle, or knowing that it was baaaack. This is the worst Tivo problem I've had in 9+ years. Well, maybe second to when my Series 2 Tivos both stopped being able to properly channel change at the same time and nobody could figure that out so I finally replaced them with Premieres.
> 
> BTW, I don't have the adapter OR cable co that another poster mentioned as the source of the problem. I think this has been a Tivo software problem because a lot of us have been having it, with various equipment and cable companies.


So you have a Motorola Cable Card?


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## Bierboy

JWhites said:


> I'm still seeing this so I'm not quite sure it was actually taken care of...


It's been fixed when you switch between the program guide and fullscreen live. However, when you jump to the NPL or TDL and back, the audio dropout is still there....though it's definitely not as bad as it was.


----------



## JoeKustra

compnurd said:


> So you have a Motorola Cable Card?


Put me down as having a Motorola M-Card for a year. Never lost a channel, never had a channel up/down issue and after changing service to exclude a big block of channels there were no issues.

My cable feed has no PSIP and 99% no SCTE-127. Signal is good, no SDV, and the cable drop for the TiVo does not go through any splitters or amplifiers, with SNR the same as my TV and three other DVRs. I still have 26 analog and 140 clear QAM channels with all "locals" in HD. The TiVo, through the cable card, gets 300+ HD channels.

All cable is local. The "real release" will probably be 20.3.1.1 if TiVo is consistant.


----------



## Aero 1

JoeKustra said:


> All cable is local.


you sure love saying that in any thread on any forum. you should make t-shirts.


----------



## RojCowles

Got the update last night on one of our Premieres, I noticed a couple of things

SD Menu: Deleting programs in a folder using the Clear button no longer skips a line. Fixed
SD Menu: Manually scheduled programs from a Wishlist don't seem to show in the My Shows list as well as the Wishlist folder. Fixed
SD: Menus still seem snappy and responsive, even using Channel Up/Down to page through Wishlist View Upcoming results so yay! there. Not broken 

Still some issues though. I watch a lot of the CNET/Revision 3 online videos and the behavior of the Tivo seems flakey when these videos start or end, i.e.


Audio is muted initially when I hit play but comes back if I use the 8 second back-skip or let the video run for 15- 30 seconds.


My Shows background is sometimes black when the show completes. Fixable by hitting the Tivo button a couple of times.


All audio from Tivo sometimes distorted when the show finishes. Might be a HDMI issue with the TV (Cheapo Zenith ... ) rather than the Tivo though as turning the TV Off/On always fixes it


Play all videos in a folder and on completion returns to a random location in the My Shows list so you have to click up/down the list to find the folder again if I want to delete it.


----------



## compnurd

JWhites said:


> More customers need to call into TiVo tech support in order for TiVo engineers to start addressing these problems we're having.


I am not having any issues and not having any issues with this update... if this updated last week in the background i would have no clue something was done


----------



## JWhites

compnurd said:


> I am not having any issues and not having any issues with this update... if this updated last week in the background i would have no clue something was done


The most pressing issue is the program description being truncated when using the HDUI in the channel bar for no reason.


----------



## jhilla

compnurd said:


> I am not having any issues and not having any issues with this update... if this updated last week in the background i would have no clue something was done


Unless your added your TSN to the priority download page this update has not or will not hit your box.. I added my TSN yesterday, it says it will take 3 days. I have tried several manual connections to get the update but has not prompted a reboot yet. By tomorrow I should have this update.

http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/software-priority-request/index.html


----------



## shamilian

2 issues for me so far.

1) on units with a slide plugged in to usb.
the first key press got stuck on, as if the slide was continuing to give the Tivo Button command. This happened with 2 different units. It was fixed by pressing buttons on one, had to unplug / replug the usb receiver on the second one. ( I have not rebooted again, I hope it does not happen on every reboot )

2) as I was watching a stream of live recording, the stream suddenly froze near the end of the show. I exited the stream ( it offered to delete the recording ) and I select the show had to fast forward to the spot to continue the stream. ( have other people streamed a live recording yet ? it may have frozen when the recording on the remote unit finished recording, not sure )


----------



## JoeKustra

Aero 1 said:


> you sure love saying that in any thread on any forum. you should make t-shirts.


Maybe just copyright? I hate to post absolutes, but this is one exception I can live with.


----------



## JoeKustra

JWhites said:


> According to TiVo technical support, this IS the Spring 2013 update.


You are correct. Subsequent updates to updates don't get names.


----------



## MHunter1

After the v20.3.1 update, I noticed that the "cropping" which sometimes occurs during 60x FF (3 fast-forward arrows) seems to have been fixed. 60x FF is as smooth as it was in TiVo's pre-Series4 platforms. Previously I would often see the top third of the screen become offset for a split second during 60x FF.

At first it seemed 3x FF (one fast-forward arrow) was fixed but occasionally it still gets stuck on muted 1x playback.

When skipping to the next tick mark during 60x FF I'm seeing hardly any hesitation. Previously the screen would often freeze for a split second when reaching the next tick mark. And the bug introduced with v20.2.2.1 that caused the status arrow to sometimes jump past the tick mark for a split second seems to have been fixed.

After pausing a program then pressing Rewind repeatedly to step back frame-by-frame then pressing Play, the program seems to resume playing from that exact frame. Previously the ability to resume playing after "stepping" through frames was less precise.

These are a few improvements I noticed when comparing the playback behavior on my Premiere 4/XL4/Elite that just updated to v20.3.1 with another Elite that still has v20.2.2.1.


----------



## JWhites

JoeKustra said:


> You are correct. Subsequent updates to updates don't get names.


Problem is this update isn't worthy of that title. Other problem is if there _is going to be_ an update to correct the issues. I've actually exchanged my Premiere 4 for one that doesn't have this software update, that's how bad it's gotten for me. I've seen people in my position before, never thought I'd be one of them.  Now I just have to deal with the other Premiere that DOES have this update.


----------



## compnurd

JWhites said:


> According to TiVo technical support, this IS the Spring 2013 update.


LOL I would not expect high hopes from Tivo Tech support


----------



## compnurd

JWhites said:


> Problem is this update isn't worthy of that title. Other problem is if there _is going to be_ an update to correct the issues. I've actually exchanged my Premiere 4 for one that doesn't have this software update, that's how bad it's gotten for me. I've seen people in my position before, never thought I'd be one of them.  Now I just have to deal with the other Premiere that DOES have this update.


Sucks your having the issues. my 3 Premieres with the new update have been fine


----------



## compnurd

jhilla said:


> Unless your added your TSN to the priority download page this update has not or will not hit your box.. I added my TSN yesterday, it says it will take 3 days. I have tried several manual connections to get the update but has not prompted a reboot yet. By tomorrow I should have this update.
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/software-priority-request/index.html


I know that... My point was I have noticed nothing.. good or bad from this update


----------



## sharkster

I'm pretty certain that my MCards are both Motorola brand, yes. But, again, I really don't think that the MCards are the problem. I'm pretty sure that all my equipment is fine and Tivo is what is causing the glitches with unauthorized channels.

Fortunately, (fingers crossed) I haven't had a problem for several weeks with either of them. Some of it, for example happening at the exact same time with both Tivos, just makes it hard to believe that one or the other, or even both CableCARDs, is the cause of the channel problem.


----------



## BP-isMe

Hi All,

Did this update fix the issue where you would lose the Live TV Buffer when a new show started to record?

Thanks...Brad


----------



## scandia101

JWhites said:


> The most pressing issue is the program description being truncated when using the HDUI in the channel bar for no reason.


Just press select to get the entire description.


----------



## JWhites

Shouldn't have to if it was left the way it was prior to the update...


----------



## Darkev

I haven't had any issues yet with the update. I'm either missing something or JWhites is. What's the point of exchanging your premiere for one that doesn't have the update? They are all going to have it soon. I guess if you pull your ethernet cable out you won't get it, but you won't get the guide updates either. :-|


----------



## scandia101

Darkev said:


> I haven't had any issues yet with the update. I'm either missing something or JWhites is.


It's definitely not you.


----------



## Bierboy

JWhites said:


> The most pressing issue is the program description being truncated when using the HDUI in the channel bar for no reason.


There is NO program description, ever, in the channel bar. All you see when changing channels is the TiVo icon, time the program starts/ends, channel info, channel (network) icon and time.

What I AM getting is still "this channel is unauthorized. contact you cable provider for more information. (v58)" right over the channel AS I AM WATCHING IT.....and it won't go away. I'm getting this on NBCSN right now.


----------



## scandia101

BP-isMe said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Did this update fix the issue where you would lose the Live TV Buffer when a new show started to record?
> 
> Thanks...Brad


Nope.


----------



## MHunter1

After the v20.3.1 update, the Replay function no longer works properly once the "Keep-or-Delete" dialog appears at the end of a recording.

I like how pressing Replay now returns the program to the point when Left was pressed rather than 8 seconds prior. Although it could be improved by not having the brief blip of black screen.

I don't like how neither Replay nor Rewind work at all if the Keep-or-Delete dialog appeared on its own because a show ended. And I consistently get a black background after dismissing the Keep-or-Delete dialog which used to be just a random occurrence.


----------



## Bierboy

Obviously, this "update" was not ready for prime time....


----------



## scandia101

MHunter1 said:


> After the v20.3.1 update, the Replay function no longer works properly once the "Keep-or-Delete" dialog appears at the end of a recording.
> 
> I like how pressing Replay now returns the program to the point when Left was pressed rather than 8 seconds prior. Although it could be improved by not having the brief blip of black screen.
> 
> I don't like how neither Replay nor Rewind work at all if the Keep-or-Delete dialog appeared on its own because a show ended. And I consistently get a black background after dismissing the Keep-or-Delete dialog which used to be just a random occurrence.


I'm not having that problem. Everything at the keep/delete screen seems to be working the same as it had previously, but I also don't the same graphics and I do have it set to the HDUI.










I have a 2 tuner premiere, is yours a 4 tuner?


----------



## JWhites

Darkev said:


> I haven't had any issues yet with the update. I'm either missing something or JWhites is. What's the point of exchanging your premiere for one that doesn't have the update? They are all going to have it soon. I guess if you pull your ethernet cable out you won't get it, but you won't get the guide updates either. :-|


actually I called tech support when I setup the exchanged box and they put a freeze on the TSN from receiving the update. Was told the freeze is used with customers on dialup.


----------



## JoeKustra

scandia101 said:


> I'm not having that problem. Everything at the keep/delete screen seems to be working the same as it had previously, but I also don't the same graphics and I do have it set to the HDUI.
> 
> I have a 2 tuner premiere, is yours a 4 tuner?


Speculation: perhaps turning off Groups will replicate the error? WAG.


----------



## ahwman

I'm on the priority list to receive this update and am wondering if anyone else had any luck with this update in terms of suggestions not populating when connected to a tuning adapter?


----------



## DaveDFW

ahwman said:


> I'm on the priority list to receive this update and am wondering if anyone else had any luck with this update in terms of suggestions not populating when connected to a tuning adapter?


I received the spring update yesterday. After a reboot and 24 hours of uptime, I have zero suggestions populated. I assume this problem will never be fixed.


----------



## ahwman

DaveDFW said:


> I received the spring update yesterday. After a reboot and 24 hours of uptime, I have zero suggestions populated. Just assume this problem will never be fixed.


I kind of knew it was wishful thinking that they actually fixed this issue. I've spoken to tech support at least a dozen times over this and though they finally confirm the issue they otherwise seem clueless. Guess it's back to the gangly timer on the TA workaround...


----------



## Darkev

There is a new bug with the signal strength if you go into the menu to check the signal on your antenna. Check various channels and you'll notice after a while all stations will display the same antenna strength/signal. Even on stations that you know are weak.


----------



## JWhites

This is an issue regarding the program description area of the screen. It seems to be a forced truncation of program information if it is five lines or more.
Prior to the update recorded show: [media]http://imageshack.us/a/img843/1839/98482724.jpg[/media]
After the update recorded show: [media]http://imageshack.us/a/img836/7320/92641535.jpg[/media]

Prior to the update downloaded video: [media]http://imageshack.us/a/img442/9263/72683341.jpg[/media]
After the update downloaded video: [media]http://imageshack.us/a/img819/3779/46151886.jpg[/media]

Prior to the update live show: [media]http://imageshack.us/a/img407/7704/75717833.jpg[/media]
After the update live show: [media]http://imageshack.us/a/img547/3865/53851786.jpg[/media]


----------



## moyekj

Probably the font got a little bigger for that overlay in this new release is why that is happening.


----------



## andyf

Bierboy said:


> What I AM getting is still "this channel is unauthorized. contact you cable provider for more information. (v58)" right over the channel AS I AM WATCHING IT.....and it won't go away. I'm getting this on NBCSN right now.


I had this a couple of months ago on CNBC. Once I re-booted the TiVo the problem went away and hasn't returned.


----------



## MeInDallas

ahwman said:


> I'm on the priority list to receive this update and am wondering if anyone else had any luck with this update in terms of suggestions not populating when connected to a tuning adapter?


Not fixed, still a problem


----------



## tlc

moyekj said:


> Probably the font got a little bigger for that overlay in this new release is why that is happening.


Looking closely at the posted images, I think the font size is the same. They're limiting the number of lines to 4. Maybe they're getting ready to put ads in the bottom half.


----------



## andyf

JWhites said:


> I'm talking about this issue. It seems to be a forced truncation of program information if it is four lines or more.
> Prior to the update recorded show: [media]http://imageshack.us/a/img843/1839/98482724.jpg[/media]
> After the update recorded show: [media]http://imageshack.us/a/img836/7320/92641535.jpg[/media]
> 
> Prior to the update downloaded video: [media]http://imageshack.us/a/img442/9263/72683341.jpg[/media]
> After the update downloaded video: [media]http://imageshack.us/a/img819/3779/46151886.jpg[/media]
> 
> Prior to the update live show: [media]http://imageshack.us/a/img407/7704/75717833.jpg[/media]
> After the update live show: [media]http://imageshack.us/a/img547/3865/53851786.jpg[/media]


Here's what I see.
Go to the guide and find a channel with a long description. Press Select to tune to that channel. When the channel and small banner is displayed immediately clear the small banner by pressing left, then press right to bring up the program info. you'll see 4 lines of description briefly then the forth line is cleared quickly and the description becomes 3 lines truncated and it sticks that way. Did I mention quickly?


----------



## JWhites

scandia101 said:


> Just press select to get the entire description.


That doesn't work all the time when the program is currently being recorded or other reasons.


----------



## JWhites

andyf said:


> Here's what I see.
> Go to the guide and find a channel with a long description. Press Select to tune to that channel. When the channel and small banner is displayed immediately clear the small banner by pressing left, then press right to bring up the program info. you'll see 4 lines of description briefly then the forth line is cleared quickly and the description becomes 3 lines truncated and it sticks that way. Did I mention quickly?


Yes quite quickly, but compared to how it was prior to the update where you can just press the info button, which would you prefer?


----------



## CoxInPHX

Bierboy said:


> Obviously, this "update" was not ready for prime time....


I agree, way too many very obvious UI oddities, I am betting a very quick 20.3.1.1 will be released.


----------



## JWhites

CoxInPHX said:


> I agree, way too many very obvious UI oddities, I am betting a very quick 20.3.1.1 will be released.


Let's hope, since I've been told that the issue I've pointed out are being escalated to the engineers. TiVo said they'll be monitoring this thread so if you guys also notice problems, post them.


----------



## compnurd

JWhites said:


> Let's hope, since I've been told that the issue I've pointed out are being escalated to the engineers. TiVo said they'll be monitoring this thread so if you guys also notice problems, post them.


Tivo does not monitor this forum.... You are putting way to much faith in customer support....

I still say this is not the sprint update


----------



## Bierboy

andyf said:


> I had this a couple of months ago on CNBC. Once I re-booted the TiVo the problem went away and hasn't returned.


It did finally go away after I checked the signal strength then went back to live teevee....


----------



## Bierboy

JWhites said:


> I'm talking about this issue. It seems to be a forced truncation of program information if it is four lines or more.
> Prior to the update recorded show: [media]http://imageshack.us/a/img843/1839/98482724.jpg[/media]
> After the update recorded show: [media]http://imageshack.us/a/img836/7320/92641535.jpg[/media]
> 
> Prior to the update downloaded video: [media]http://imageshack.us/a/img442/9263/72683341.jpg[/media]
> After the update downloaded video: [media]http://imageshack.us/a/img819/3779/46151886.jpg[/media]
> 
> Prior to the update live show: [media]http://imageshack.us/a/img407/7704/75717833.jpg[/media]
> After the update live show: [media]http://imageshack.us/a/img547/3865/53851786.jpg[/media]


I agree this is a font size issue in my opinion. BTW, that isn't the "channel bar"...that's the info screen...


----------



## mrizzo80

I've had some issues with Netflix after the update. I thought hitting the up or left arrow key buttons would take you out of the show you are watching and back out to the main Netflix screen. That hasn't been working for me. The only way I've been able to bail at the end of an episode is to hit the TiVo button, which takes you all the way back out to the TiVo screen. Not a problem if you are done watching, but if you want to watch another episode you are stuck with having to Netflix all over again; which is taking 45 seconds for me these days.

Pause and play buttons also seem a bit strange. They are not always honored; or only honored after a long delay (well beyond the delay we are used to). TiVo is receiving the commands because the light on the box blinks immediately every time.


----------



## DigitalDawn

JWhites said:


> As I think I've said before, it's a possible issue with the cablecard firmware if you are referring to a "not authorized" or "channel not found" error message and you are using a Cisco/SA card.


I'm having a similar Comcast issue but reboots don't fix it, and it *only* occurs with my XL4. After 2-5 weeks the cable card unpairs, and the only way to fix it is to pull the cable card out, reinsert it, and have Comcast re-pair the card remotely. This doesn't always work either, and I have had them come out at least 6 or 7 times since August with new cable cards.

The odd thing here is that this never happens with my Series 3, or my Ceton equipped PC -- only the XL4. I've even tried switching the RF head end port between the Series 3 and the XL4. No difference. The card is an SA model.

I'm thinking that this problem might be a bad cable card slot on the TiVo.

Do you agree?


----------



## Darkev

I encountered a strange issue this morning. I turned on the TiVo and a message popped up stating I needed to download the guide. Please go to Network and do a download. I thought it was odd because my TiVo was not disconnected for even a second from the internet. I initiated the download and upon completion the guide was still empty. Everything said, "To be announced". The download screen was showing successful download. I tried it again. Same thing - no guide data. I rebooted the TiVo and now the guide data is back.


----------



## sharkster

BP-isMe said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Did this update fix the issue where you would lose the Live TV Buffer when a new show started to record?
> 
> Thanks...Brad


Ooh, good question! Since the last update, this has been one thing that I hate. I often watch something semi-live and even when the tuner needs to record, at least I could continue watching the show until it finished.


----------



## cherry ghost

sharkster said:


> Ooh, good question! Since the last update, this has been one thing that I hate. I often watch something semi-live and even when the tuner needs to record, at least I could continue watching the show until it finished.


If the recording is on the same channel, you don't lose the buffer. If it's a different channel, you lose the buffer.


----------



## scandia101

cherry ghost said:


> If the recording is on the same channel, you don't lose the buffer. If it's a different channel, you lose the buffer.


The buffer still gets lost when a recording starts even if you are watching the same channel as the recording.


----------



## sharkster

scandia101 said:


> The buffer still gets lost when a recording starts even if you are watching the same channel as the recording.


That's been my experience as well.


----------



## wmcbrine

Bierboy said:


> I agree this is a font size issue in my opinion.


Then, you're not really looking at the screen shots.

1. The text wraps at the same points.
2. It continues to line up with non-text elements in the same way. (E.g., the line under the CC icon comes to the middle of the third line of text in each pair.)
3. There is obvious empty space in the "after" shots that isn't there in the "before".

This is either a bug, or a misfeature (as in the above suggestion of reserving space for an ad (shudder)).


----------



## aaronwt

MHunter1 said:


> After the v20.3.1 update, the Replay function no longer works properly once the "Keep-or-Delete" dialog appears at the end of a recording.
> 
> I like how pressing Replay now returns the program to the point when Left was pressed rather than 8 seconds prior. Although it could be improved by not having the brief blip of black screen.
> 
> I don't like how neither Replay nor Rewind work at all if the Keep-or-Delete dialog appeared on its own because a show ended. And I consistently get a black background after dismissing the Keep-or-Delete dialog which used to be just a random occurrence.


Switch to the HDUI. I have not seen this on my boxes using the HDUI.


----------



## aaronwt

wmcbrine said:


> Then, you're not really looking at the screen shots.
> 
> 1. The text wraps at the same points.
> 2. It continues to line up with non-text elements in the same way. (E.g., the line under the CC icon comes to the middle of the third line of text in each pair.)
> 3. There is obvious empty space in the "after" shots that isn't there in the "before".
> 
> This is either a bug, or a misfeature (as in the above suggestion of reserving space for an ad (shudder)).


From the pictures it just looks like they only have three lines of text now instead of four for the description. Which is why the last line and part of the third line is cut off now.

I don't see it as big deal. They probably changed it from four to three lines for some reason.


----------



## Darkev

That's the thing. We don't know much about the complaints they get from customers, internal software issues that may affect memory, issues that happen because something appearing to be unrelated was changed but affects other things, staffing issues they have with finding good people to do their programming, issues they have due to limitations of the hardware in the machine, and many more. It's easy for us to criticize, not knowing the triggers that cause the glitches. Hopefully they will release a new update in a month that will fix the new bugs.


----------



## JWhites

But even if all that is true, _someone_ at TiVo should have noticed these blatant issues and put a nix on the release. I'd rather have one excellent update a year then multiple screwy updates that require constant fixing. I'm starting to think I should compare this to Microsoft's "patch Tuesday"


----------



## PotentiallyCoherent

JWhites said:


> But even if all that is true, _someone_ at TiVo should have noticed these blatant issues and put a nix on the release. I'd rather have one excellent update a year then multiple screwy updates that require constant fixing. I'm starting to think I should compare this to Microsoft's "patch Tuesday"


Having three lines of text in the info box instead of four is not a "blatant" issue. In fact, it's not an issue at all.


----------



## lpwcomp

Two problems haven't been fixed by this update:

1. Closed captions missing on files downloaded to TiVo, even .tivo files which do have captions if d/l'd to a THD.

2. Categories does not get set unless the TiVo gets data based on the programId. Otherwise, if any are present in the metadata, it gets set to "Separator".


----------



## JWhites

PotentiallyCoherent said:


> Having three lines of text in the info box instead of four is not a "blatant" issue. In fact, it's not an issue at all.


It may not be an issue for _you_ but for those who use it it _is_ since it was not this way prior to the update and affects usability and functionality of the product by not being able to read a large portion of the program description as easily, without a reason why (that we know of yet, if ever). New software is suppose to enhance the experience and fix things, not make it worse by introducing new problems that then too will need to be fixed. It would end up becoming a never ending cycle of fixing and fixing the fixes that fix the fixes.


----------



## JWhites

With the Fall 2012 update, I've come across that 5 lines of information can be shown before it truncates the sixth line with an ellipse as both images demonstrate.
Program info: [media]http://imageshack.us/a/img211/1690/0518131558.jpg[/media] 
Full program info: [media]http://imageshack.us/a/img189/1336/0518131600.jpg[/media]

This Spring 2013 update cut this in half down to 3 lines.


----------



## jrtroo

Being different does not indicate its was unintentional.


----------



## mrsean

I'm glad that the slow channel changing issue has been resolved because I know from first hand experience that channel surfers were not impressed with the Premiere. I could not get my good friend to buy one for that reason alone.


----------



## scandia101

I enjoy the new streamlined info screen. It's much better without a fourth description line cluttering up my TiVo experience. Thank you TiVo, keep up the good work.


----------



## crxssi

scandia101 said:


> I enjoy the new streamlined info screen. It's much better without a fourth description line cluttering up my TiVo experience. Thank you TiVo, keep up the good work.


LOL

Perhaps they should shorten it to one line.... or even a few words, that would be REALLY streamlined.


----------



## scandia101

mrsean said:


> I'm glad that the slow channel changing issue has been resolved because I know from first hand experience that channel surfers were not impressed with the Premiere. I could not get my good friend to buy one for that reason alone.


Channel surfing has always been an issue with Tivo because it takes about 2 seconds to buffer and display for every channel change.


----------



## ADG

Selecting a show to record from the guide no longer momentarily blacks out the PIP - it's now seamless.


----------



## dianebrat

mrsean said:


> I'm glad that the slow channel changing issue has been resolved because I know from first hand experience that channel surfers were not impressed with the Premiere. I could not get my good friend to buy one for that reason alone.


I've never understood this vestigial tail issue with a Tivo, it was one thing to use the channel up and down buttons when you had at most 20 channels, but with hundreds of channels spread all over the spectrum, surfing by guide just makes so much more sense to me, the only time I use the CH up and down buttons is as page buttons in the menu.


----------



## Drewster

mrizzo80 said:


> I've had some issues with Netflix after the update. I thought hitting the up or left arrow key buttons would take you out of the show you are watching and back out to the main Netflix screen. That hasn't been working for me. The only way I've been able to bail at the end of an episode is to hit the TiVo button, which takes you all the way back out to the TiVo screen. Not a problem if you are done watching, but if you want to watch another episode you are stuck with having to Netflix all over again; which is taking 45 seconds for me these days.
> 
> Pause and play buttons also seem a bit strange. They are not always honored; or only honored after a long delay (well beyond the delay we are used to). TiVo is receiving the commands because the light on the box blinks immediately every time.


This happened to me this morning. We do a lot of NetFlix streaming on the box, so I'm hoping it was a momentary lapse in the NetFlix app. (IIRC it loads the app over the Internet.)


----------



## scandia101

dianebrat said:


> I've never understood this vestigial tail issue with a Tivo, it was one thing to use the channel up and down buttons when you had at most 20 channels,


Some people today only have at most 20 channels.


----------



## JoeKustra

scandia101 said:


> Some people today only have at most 20 channels.


I don't wish to jump the rails, but even with 200+ channels, my Favorites that you can scan (surf) is about 20. I can understand using the TiVo as a tuner, and while I think it's a great tuner, the guide is a zillion times better. Watching live TV still works for surfing and there is still a delay between channels. I frequently record two shows on my regular Premiere while watching live TV. Ever since digital TV people have complained about the slow startup and slow channel change compared to analog. Now when I turn on my TV it gets a picture in under 5 seconds. But until all the internal housekeeping is finished it can take 30 seconds. I can live with it. If people had to watch a screen being built block by block they would complain about that instead. Such is life.


----------



## moyekj

lpwcomp said:


> 1. Closed captions missing on files downloaded to TiVo, even .tivo files which do have captions if d/l'd to a THD.


 But you know there is a workaround to get it working for series 4 units (using pyTivo and ts=on).


----------



## cherry ghost

scandia101 said:


> The buffer still gets lost when a recording starts even if you are watching the same channel as the recording.


Not for me


----------



## lpwcomp

moyekj said:


> But you know there is a workaround to get it working for series 4 units (using pyTivo and ts=on).


Not for me since it requires a more recent version of ffmpeg which requires a more recent O/S.(I'm still on Win2k)


----------



## scandia101

cherry ghost said:


> Not for me


I've tested this twice; recording on two tuners at the same time and just one and both times the buffer was lost.
Maybe there's a difference between 2 tuner models and 4 tuner models.


----------



## scandia101

atmuscarella said:


> Me either I just checked tonight. I went live to a channel that was recording about 2 minutes after it started and the full 30 buffer was there and I could reverse back into the previous show.


This doesn't even make sense.

The buffer is lost (and always has been) when a recording starts and the Tivo (or now with multi tuner tivos, tuner) is not on live tv. If however, you were watching live tv from within the buffer, a recording could start while you finished watching whatever was in the buffer and the buffer would be available for as long as the recording was being made or until you exited live tv (or left that tuner). Now, if you are watching live tv from within the buffer and a recording starts on that tuner, the buffer is immediately lost and you find yourself watching what is being recorded - or some of us do anyway.

If you are recording something and go to live tv and you are not watching what's being recorded, you are on another tuner watching that tuners buffer.


----------



## JWhites

jrtroo said:


> Being different does not indicate its was unintentional.


But it does indicate it's unwanted and/or unnecessary despite what the troublemakers may prefer.


----------



## JWhites

Well good for you scandia101.


----------



## compnurd

scandia101 said:


> I enjoy the new streamlined info screen. It's much better without a fourth description line cluttering up my TiVo experience. Thank you TiVo, keep up the good work.


I just went through every single channel in my favorites and couldn't find one show truncated on the info screen. Maybe they dropped the line because almost no shows take up a forth


----------



## compnurd

dianebrat said:


> I've never understood this vestigial tail issue with a Tivo, it was one thing to use the channel up and down buttons when you had at most 20 channels, but with hundreds of channels spread all over the spectrum, surfing by guide just makes so much more sense to me, the only time I use the CH up and down buttons is as page buttons in the menu.


I keep native on so channel surfing is not possible


----------



## MeInDallas

Has anyone else noticed that suggestions started populating again? I just checked mine to see if I needed to unplug the tuning adapter to get more, and the screen is full of them. Went in to check the other one and it was the same thing, 3-1/2 pages of them.


----------



## wmcbrine

lpwcomp said:


> Not for me since it requires a more recent version of ffmpeg which requires a more recent O/S.(I'm still on Win2k)


Time to move on.


----------



## lpwcomp

wmcbrine said:


> Time to move on.


Love to but that requires money.


----------



## lpwcomp

compnurd said:


> I just went through every single channel in my favorites and couldn't find one show truncated on the info screen. Maybe they dropped the line because almost no shows take up a forth


I have seen it happen. If there is a fourth line, it sometimes appears briefly before being overwritten, so it probably is a bug rather than a design change. However, I would in no way consider this a show stopper and anyone thinking that there will be an interim release to fix it is deluded.


----------



## bkoester

mrizzo80 said:


> I've had some issues with Netflix after the update. I thought hitting the up or left arrow key buttons would take you out of the show you are watching and back out to the main Netflix screen. That hasn't been working for me. The only way I've been able to bail at the end of an episode is to hit the TiVo button, which takes you all the way back out to the TiVo screen. Not a problem if you are done watching, but if you want to watch another episode you are stuck with having to Netflix all over again; which is taking 45 seconds for me these days.
> 
> .


This has been driving me nuts as well.


----------



## crxssi

wmcbrine said:


> Time to move on.


Yes. To Linux 



lpwcomp said:


> Love to but that requires money.


No it doesn't.
http://distrowatch.org


----------



## JWhites

lpwcomp said:


> I have seen it happen. If there is a fourth line, it sometimes appears briefly before being overwritten, so it probably is a bug rather than a design change. However, I would in no way consider this a show stopper and anyone thinking that there will be an interim release to fix it is deluded.


I've noticed the behavior of programs that have 6 lines of information show the full information on the Fall 2012 update then quickly truncate down to the five lines as I showed in the picture tonight. So seeing how it was with 5 lines down to 3 lines does seem like a bug and hopefully there is gonna be a patch or according to the engineers a fix made before it's set for general release in June.


----------



## kbtivo

Was fast forwarding in Netflix - screen froze then a minute or so later the system rebooted


----------



## JWhites

Yikes!


----------



## compnurd

JWhites said:


> I've noticed the behavior of programs that have 6 lines of information show the full information on the Fall 2012 update then quickly truncate down to the five lines as I showed in the picture tonight. So seeing how it was with 5 lines down to 3 lines does seem like a bug and hopefully there is gonna be a patch or according to the engineers a fix made before it's set for general release in June.


Purposely truncating from a higher number down to 3 seems like it was on purpose not a bug. A bug would mean the number it truncated down to would change every time you are grasping at straws here


----------



## ahwman

MeInDallas said:


> Has anyone else noticed that suggestions started populating again? I just checked mine to see if I needed to unplug the tuning adapter to get more, and the screen is full of them. Went in to check the other one and it was the same thing, 3-1/2 pages of them.


I'm still waiting for the update on both of my XL'4's and crossing my fingers that suggestions will populate for me as well as I'm sick and tired of having to keep my TA's on timer's. There was one other person who posted on this thread that at first they did see suggestions populate but then he edited his post saying that they eventually disappeared. Can you confirm that suggestions are actually recording as well?

Thanks!


----------



## lpwcomp

compnurd said:


> Purposely truncating from a higher number down to 3 seems like it was on purpose not a bug. A bug would mean the number it truncated down to would change every time you are grasping at straws here


I might agree with you if it weren't for the fact that it will briefly display 4-lines of info before changing to three lines, with the third line also being partially truncated.


----------



## TexasDVR

MeInDallas said:


> Has anyone else noticed that suggestions started populating again? I just checked mine to see if I needed to unplug the tuning adapter to get more, and the screen is full of them. Went in to check the other one and it was the same thing, 3-1/2 pages of them.


My TiVo is OTA only. There may be a slight increase in suggestions; but I have trained the "suggestions" with so many thumbs down it pretty well only puts shows in I might be interested in. So it has been putting in a lot of home improvement shows lately since we are trying to fix up the house. Suggestions never went away here, usually adding 2 to 6 shows per day anyway - Dallas here too.


----------



## atmuscarella

scandia101 said:


> This doesn't even make sense.
> 
> The buffer is lost (and always has been) when a recording starts and the Tivo (or now with multi tuner tivos, tuner) is not on live tv. If however, you were watching live tv from within the buffer, a recording could start while you finished watching whatever was in the buffer and the buffer would be available for as long as the recording was being made or until you exited live tv (or left that tuner). Now, if you are watching live tv from within the buffer and a recording starts on that tuner, the buffer is immediately lost and you find yourself watching what is being recorded - or some of us do anyway.
> 
> If you are recording something and go to live tv and you are not watching what's being recorded, you are on another tuner watching that tuners buffer.


I was wrong and have deleted my post. Not sure what happened was reading this thread and switch to my TiVo to how it was working and thought I was looking at the tuner that was recording, but must of gotten the tuners mixed up.


----------



## nooneuknow

SugarBowl said:


> Using page up/down in the guide seems very fast now.
> 
> Transitioning from full screen tv to the guide and back, I no longer have audio dropouts from the live TV sound.


It seemed that way for me too, but I quickly found that other areas are WAY slower. I used to be able to clear a few screens worth of deleted items out at warp speed, in less than a minute. Now, it takes up to 20 seconds to refresh, per program. I know most people could care less, as they just leave them in there. Then, I also found that it doesn't take long for the increased navigation speed areas to go back to the same speed as before the update.

My audio drop-outs did not get resolved.

-edit- I mean while watching anything during a low-sound period, where there isn't a gun battle, explosion, or deafeningly loud soundtrack, such as dialog-based segments. I have four Premiers, using the newest Cisco CacbleCards, via Cox Cable, and they WERE flashed with the newest firmware just a couple months ago. Nobody at or from Cox even knows (or is just refusing to say) what that CableCard update was for. It certainly didn't fix my audio drop-outs, programs having no sound at all sometimes, and other issues, many of which I replicated using one of their own receivers for six months (and had to pay extra for, and no refund, either). Cox isn't currently using SDV/TAs in my area, and the future of that isn't being divulged, either.

Neither TiVo, nor Cox has done anything to make me feel like they even care if I remain a customer.

I now also have found that if a recording was made on an Advanced TV Channel, that removal, and/or swapping out the cable card, causes that recording to no longer be viewable (gives an error about perhaps not receiving that channel, or that there was no signal present, even though the recording played back fine beforehand). These programs were recorded on channels that don't use the CCI flag, so there's some new form of copy protection and/or limitation on how long you can keep something and then watch it later. I believe it's due to the CableCard update, but the line about slices/copy protection added to the system info screen after the TiVo update, looks like a joint effort (in my opinion).

For those who only suffer, or suffered, an audio drop-out when switching from menu to full-screen video, and have been so vocal about it, I think you'd have either dropped your TiVos, or yourselves, off a tall building having to put up with the audio issues I have been enduring for years... -end of edit-

I could go on about 50 other quirks, that make me wish I hadn't put my TSNs on the priority list. I'll just go with "lesson learned".


----------



## MeInDallas

ahwman said:


> I'm still waiting for the update on both of my XL'4's and crossing my fingers that suggestions will populate for me as well as I'm sick and tired of having to keep my TA's on timer's. There was one other person who posted on this thread that at first they did see suggestions populate but then he edited his post saying that they eventually disappeared. Can you confirm that suggestions are actually recording as well?
> 
> Thanks!


That was me that wrote that. So far my 2 tuner model is getting them, but my 4 tuner model seems to be fighting with me. I had unplugged the tuning adapter to get more suggestions on it, and then as they started going down again, there would be 1 or 2 new ones pop up on their own, but its not keeping up like it should. Its down to nearly 2 pages of them now. I wish they would fix this, but I'm glad they did fix some other things.


----------



## MeInDallas

TexasDVR said:


> My TiVo is OTA only. There may be a slight increase in suggestions; but I have trained the "suggestions" with so many thumbs down it pretty well only puts shows in I might be interested in. So it has been putting in a lot of home improvement shows lately since we are trying to fix up the house. Suggestions never went away here, usually adding 2 to 6 shows per day anyway - Dallas here too.


Yeah its not working on people that are using tuning adapters with cable. If youre OTA then you should be getting them without any issues


----------



## lpwcomp

nooneuknow said:


> ...I used to be able to clear a few screens worth of deleted items out at warp speed, in less than a minute. Now, it takes up to 20 seconds to refresh, per program. I know most people could care less, as they just leave them in there.


I too like to keep the "Recently Deleted" folder cleaned out but these days I usually use kmttg to do that on my Premieres.


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> I too like to keep the "Recently Deleted" folder cleaned out but these days I usually use kmttg to do that on my Premieres.


I added quite a long edit to my original post, just in case you have anything else you'd like to add. I'm not familiar with kmttg, but thanks for bringing it up.


----------



## lessd

This update we now have a new line of information in the SI screen, I don't have any idea what it means, it is just below the program data out till.


----------



## nooneuknow

lessd said:


> This update we now have a new line of information in the SI screen, I don't have any idea what it means, it is just below the program data out till.


The slice/copy protection version line is what your talking about.

The last time I heard anything about slices, was in an underground hacking forum, regarding defeating the iron-first lockdown that was imposed on the consumer's recordings, on old satellite TiVos. Basically, if you took out the subscriber card, changed it, or let your subscription lapse, kiss your access to your recordings goodbye.

I lost many treasured TiVo Premiere (cable) recordings after I swapped two cards around after my Cisco CableCards were flashed a couple months back. This was before this TiVo Update, but I think that line is a reference to the mechanism, which is separate from the CCI flag. My lost recordings were 0x00 status, but were on Cox "Advanced TV channels, only available if you have a cablecard, and it is in proper working state, not just paired".

I used to swap/replace CableCards all the time, before that last firmware flash, without any such issues. Now it looks like TiVo is making it more transparent, that there is more copy/access control in play, even though it obviously was already working in my area, prior to TiVo's update.


----------



## Drewster

We had another NetFlix freeze/reboot this morning. Sigh.


----------



## MPSAN

Did they stop rolling this out? I got the update on my P4 but NOT on my XL4.


----------



## lpwcomp

nooneuknow said:


> The slice/copy protection version line is what your talking about.


Why do you assume that this line has anything to with "Copy Protection"? "CP" could just as easily stand for "Collaboration Protocol" or "Collaborative Programming". Unless someone has solid data which they have yet to share, it is all pure speculation as to what "Collab Slice Version" means.


----------



## nooneuknow

In my OPINION, the update priority page IS TiVo's true Beta test. I can't say more, as I'd be in violation of a lifelong binding NDA which I am bound by. I am not acknowledging who the NDA is with.

I'll hazard a HYPOTHETICAL situation GUESS, that TiVo can't find enough willing, let alone, capable/thorough beta testers, that are willing to censure themselves forever, when it comes to reporting things which TiVo may have chosen to ignore that may have been reported to the Beta test group leader, and ignored. Which I would GUESS could alienate any participants from ever participating again. - Once again, this GUESS is HYPOTHETICAL.

I am not acknowledging that I have ever participated in any Beta testing for TiVo, just to be clear, in triplicate. Nor, am I acknowledging that something like a participant committing suicide after their participation, ever happened. HYPOTHETICALLY, if it did, that person could talk freely, except, of course, the dead can't speak.


----------



## lpwcomp

nooneuknow said:


> In my OPINION, the update priority page IS TiVo's true Beta test. I can't say more, as I'd be in violation of a lifelong binding NDA which I am bound by. I am not acknowledging who the NDA is with.
> 
> I'll hazard a HYPOTHETICAL situation GUESS, that TiVo can't find enough willing, let alone, capable/thorough beta testers, that are willing to censure themselves forever, when it comes to reporting things which TiVo may have chosen to ignore that may be reported to the Beta test group leader. Which I would GUESS could alienate any participants from ever participating again. - Once again, this GUESS is HYPOTHETICAL.
> 
> I am not acknowledging that I have ever participated in any Beta testing for TiVo, just to be clear, in triplicate. Nor, am I acknowledging that something like a participant committing suicide after their participation, ever happened. HYPOTHETICALLY, if it did, that person could talk freely, except, of course, the dead can't speak.


With all due respect, most of the problems we have seen in recent releases should have been caught during unit or integration testing.


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> Why do you assume that this line has anything to with "Copy Protection"? "CP" could just as easily stand for "Collaboration Protocol" or "Collaborative Programming". Unless someone has solid data which they have yet to share, it is all pure speculation as to what "Collab Slice Version" means.


It's forbidden to mention the names of the sites I'd like to refer you to, within these forums. I don't feel like, or have time to, go digging through them all and PM'ing the links to specific posts that may help clarify it.

Last I checked, speculation, and opinions, are quite welcome here, and are the bulk of this thread at this time. Given the very recent lockdown/loss of access to my recent, as well as two & three year old recordings, due to a new linkage to a specific CableCard ID, and it being in a fully and proper operational state, as well, and what a truly believe I recall reading in the other forums, I think I'm not out-of-line. Isn't your response basically counter-speculation, as well?

I can't even pair my CableCards to my original TiVo drive, clone it, and then expand it, without losing the pairing. This is new as well. So, apparently, the drive serial number/model can't even slip past this mechanism. I'll GUESS that the new entry in system info is there to show what level is supported, or in use, and may not be the same on every unit. TiVo may have felt it was necessary to expose that data for support purposes.

Perhaps I could have been clearer. Do you feel I should edit my original post? I don't want a fight. If it starts going that direction, I'll choose to not participate. I'm not like somebody whose name rhymes with NeoKivo, that would debate 'til his last keystroke ever. You may be right, I could be close to right. We could both be wrong, or half right. I was hoping somebody would post a definitive affirmation, or clarify the matter. I can't spend three hours making sure EVERY post is flawless.


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> With all due respect, most of the problems we have seen in recent releases should have been caught during unit or integration testing.


They just should have been caught, period. I think we're agreeing with one another on at least this aspect of things.

I can also report that my TiVos running with DVR_DUDE's images *seem to be* much more stable than the JMFS clone/expand method. I don't know why, I could only speculate.


----------



## ahwman

I added both of my TSN's to TiVo's priority list last Thursday and was told I would be eligible to receive the uodate within 3 days, however I have forced connections several times over the last few days and neither box detects an update. Is this 3 day rule approximate or should I try to add my TSN's again?

Thanks...


----------



## nooneuknow

ahwman said:


> I added both of my TSN's to TiVo's priority list last Thursday and was told I would be eligible to receive the uodate within 3 days, however I have forced connections several times over the last few days and neither box detects an update. Is this 3 day rule approximate or should I try to add my TSN's again?
> 
> Thanks...


If you haven't read through all the posts in this thread, I think you should. I got my update on 4 Premieres the day after I entered my TSNs. I wish I hadn't requested the update. Some seem to share my sentiment. One even returned his TiVo and then had TiVo BLOCK the update.

Many can't figure out what the update even does. Some are very unhappy with the bugs in it. A few are happy that one issue was resolved for them, which was an issue that didn't even bother me.

If it's been as long as you say it has, and done as you say you have, I'm thinking TiVo may be holding back on rolling the update to prevent things like people returning their TiVos and calling in for a block on it. If you just want to play around with it and be an unofficial post-Beta Beta tester, that's your call. Not everybody who requests priority manually tries to force the update, so even if it's been halted, you may see reports of "Hey, I just got it!", because it was already downloaded at a scheduled connection, and then only installed when 2am came around and their TiVo wasn't busy or about to be.

It's rare, but TiVo has protocols in place to recall bad updates. I haven't actually witnessed that happen, but it may have. TiVo stopping a rollout, past the priority list, and part way through the mainstream, I have witnessed.

Just a suggestion, based on what I interpret from what is posted within these forums, nothing more.


----------



## ufo4sale

Why do you want the update. it doesn't offer anything of real significance.


----------



## innocentfreak

nooneuknow said:


> It's forbidden to mention the names of the sites I'd like to refer you to, within these forums. I don't feel like, or have time to, go digging through them all and PM'ing the links to specific posts that may help clarify it.


Last I heard the database site was the only real alternative TiVo site was forbidden and I think the forum will block links to it.


----------



## nooneuknow

innocentfreak said:


> Last I heard the database site was the only real alternative TiVo site was forbidden and I think the forum will block links to it.


There's others that really only exist as archives by now. I was hoping anybody interested would Google around a bit, and/or somebody would give a hint. I try not to break the rules, or bend them, in cases where it's so easy to just use a search engine and a few terms/words. Since the site that you gave the hint on is more copyright circumvention/hacking/illegal modding based, and discussion of those things is prohibited here, I tend to err on the safe side.


----------



## lpwcomp

They appear to have addressed the transfer problem. At least I was able to use TD to transfer a file while it still doesn't work on either my THD or my TiVo 2.

Note: I simply tested this out if curiosity. I do not actively use TD and haven't for a while. I did notice that TD doesn't see one of my Premieres.

Note 2: This is a really old version of TD, 2.3a to be precise.


----------



## lpwcomp

I googled "Collab", "Collab slice", and "CP_Standard" and the only thing that came up that was even remotely related was _*this very thread.*_


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> I googled "Collab", "Collab slice", and "CP_Standard" and the only thing that came up that was even remotely related was _*this very thread.*_


try database TiVo slice - no quotes, throw in some of the words from my previous post (the subjects not to be discussed on here).

You've seriously never ran across anything about "slicing" a DirectTivo, or hacking the slices? I never even needed that info, and had to wade through it looking for completely unrelated info on different equipment.

My System Information screen says: "Collab Slice Version: CP_Standard_t2 v.266" I haven't seen any mention of all that data yet from anybody else at this point. What's your version say, something more, less, or different in any way? My CableCard screens are also much changed, but have been since two months ago. I have twice as many screens of info to look at now, and the Copy Protection section has a second page now. I'm more focused on learning the rest of the CableCard screen terminology and what its purpose is, which is what I'm busy digging into. Then maybe that will lead me to the new line in sysinfo making sense, and if it's independent of the CableCard, read from it, or linked in any way. I want to know if I need to take countermeasures, complain to somebody, if so who, and/or just give up on TiVo completely (I also found my CableCard SubExpTime has been reduced to 13 days (was 6 months), from the last day in operational mode, meaning that I lose recordings if I leave a TiVo unplugged for more than that time, as the cablecard will no longer be authorized, and will need to be re-paired, but the recordings are still toast). Call me paranoid, but this seems ominous to me. What's next to be implemented, or on its way to give me LESS control over what I want to save, and what I can view, & how long I have until it's restricted, useless, content? I ONLY use my TiVos for DVR use, and if it's going to be as bad as a cableco rental box, why hang onto equipment that I have to pay to replace/repair if it goes bad? If cableco equipment goes bad, no expense to get it swapped out... I know the cableco boxes are crappy, but at least I'd get OnDemand, and with no TiVos around for the cableco to give me sh*t over, they'd have to make it all work. I don't want to spawn another off topic tit-for-tat over how great TiVo is over the cableco equipment. So, everybody, please suppress the urge to start those arguments.

Most of this stuff is too much Off Topic at this point, in my opinion. PM me, if you can't find anything, but keep in mind that PMs may be open for the moderators and site owners to view if they want to, so no blatant speak of the prohibited matters please.


----------



## lpwcomp

nooneuknow said:


> You've seriously never ran across anything about "slicing" a DirectTivo, or hacking the slices? I never even needed that info, and had to wade through it looking for completely unrelated info on different equipment.


You're seriously contending that since this new line in the System Info screen has the word "slice" in it, that it is therefore related to the hacking of DirecTiVos? Are you kidding?

Want me to make a S.W.A.G.? It's related to the TiVo resident third party app SDK.


----------



## aaronwt

I still have not seen any issues with my boxes since I got the update. The only thing I have noticed is the fewer lines in the description of a title. And that was only because someone pointed it out here. Which is no big deal to me. Otherwise watching and recording content has been just as flawless as before in my use. And I have gone out of my way to use my main Elite for viewing instead of using the Mini I normally use in my main setup for viewing content.


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> You're seriously contending that since this new line in the System Info screen has the word "slice" in it, that it is therefore related to the hacking of DirecTiVos? Are you kidding?
> 
> Want me to make a S.W.A.G.? It's related to the TiVo resident third party app SDK.


I keep saying that I'm trying to figure it out, and have never said I'm sure about it. Then I had to try to tell you what I was going by, which others might be interested in checking out themselves. I asked in my first response if you felt I should edit my original post. You declined to comment on that olive branch. Hell, I've asked for other input from you and you just skip right by it, selectively quoting a fragment, that only comes across, from my viewpoint, like you feel like debating over something neither of us has proof of what it is.

I'm not taking this any further on here with you. I don't KNOW what it's all about, only worried what it could be. You don't KNOW either. So until there's a definitive and verifiable way to define what it is, feel free to talk to yourself, or anybody else. No offense intended. I'm just getting cramps from being hunched over my laptop screen for too long, getting a headache, and am trying to not get too far off topic. I said I didn't want to fight.


----------



## compnurd

aaronwt said:


> I still have not seen any issues with my boxes since I got the update. The only thing I have noticed is the fewer lines in the description of a title. And that was only because someone pointed it out here. Which is no big deal to me. Otherwise watching and recording content has been just as flawless as before in my use. And I have gone out of my way to use my main Elite for viewing instead of using the Mini I normally use in my main setup for viewing content.


Agreed.... Update on 3 Tivos here and like i said earlier.... Had i not forced the update or come here... i can not tell the difference at all.

Everything works the same as before


----------



## nooneuknow

aaronwt said:


> I still have not seen any issues with my boxes since I got the update. The only thing I have noticed is the fewer lines in the description of a title. And that was only because someone pointed it out here. Which is no big deal to me. Otherwise watching and recording content has been just as flawless as before in my use. And I have gone out of my way to use my main Elite for viewing instead of using the Mini I normally use in my main setup for viewing content.


I know you're a long-timer on here (you have my respect). Have you tried replicating any of the other issues reported in this thread? I'm not asking about mine, but the other people who have reported issues in this thread, and the ones reported in the thread that's supposed to be about the prioritized update requests? That thread has become a bit overrun by people reporting issues within that thread.

If I recall, you're more like me, where your TiVos are used for their DVR functions, and you use other devices for the rest, like I do.

I've had some crazy-ass stuff going on, like my discovery bar flashing around like it's trying to provoke an epileptic seizure, and about 49 other things. But, this is only happening with drives I used JMFS on. My DVR_DUDE imaged TiVos don't do that, and the other 49 weird, and sometimes sporadic/intermittent issues. These issues were not present before the new TiVo update. This is why I think that DVR_DUDE's image is pretty much stock, with one huge partition added at the end, like JMFS, but I had suspicions from some of his advertising propaganda (most of it is false, like aligned 4K partitions, and claims of an optimized partition layout), that he had some inside info that while he could tweak the hell out of old TiVoHD drive partitions, the base portion of his Premiere drives would be exactly as they were on a stock TiVo, including you getting the stock base portion for a 320GB model, if that's the model you said you had, or a stock layout for a 500GB model, if that's what you said you had, and so on. I know he works some Voodoo on the expansion portion, and gives a true supersize. He also ships the drives with the software versions that TiVo originally shipped them with, which didn't support, or fully support 2TB drives, but after a software update, it's all available, this even includes the TiVo HD line (software shipped not supporting >1TB, but after update, it's all there. Care to take a bit of time and share if you're still only testing DVR functions, and, if so, maybe suffer the slowness, and lag of using the other features to see how they work?


----------



## aaronwt

nooneuknow said:


> I know you're a long-timer on here (you have my respect). Have you tried replicating any of the other issues reported in this thread? I'm not asking about mine, but the other people who have reported issues in this thread, and the ones reported in the thread that's supposed to be about the prioritized update requests? That thread has become a bit overrun by people reporting issues within that thread.
> 
> If I recall, you're more like me, where your TiVos are used for their DVR functions, and you use other devices for the rest, like I do.
> 
> I've had some crazy-ass stuff going on, like my discovery bar flashing around like it's trying to provoke an epileptic seizure, and about 49 other things. But, this is only happening with drives I used JMFS on. My DVR_DUDE imaged TiVos don't do that, and the other 49 weird, and sometimes sporadic/intermittent issues. These issues were not present before the new TiVo update. This is why I think that DVR_DUDE's image is pretty much stock, with one huge partition added at the end, like JMFS, but I had suspicions from some of his advertising propaganda (most of it is false, like aligned 4K partitions, and claims of an optimized partition layout), that he had some inside info that while he could tweak the hell out of old TiVoHD drive partitions, the base portion of his Premiere drives would be exactly as they were on a stock TiVo, including you getting the stock base portion for a 320GB model, if that's the model you said you had, or a stock layout for a 500GB model, if that's what you said you had, and so on. I know he works some Voodoo on the expansion portion, and gives a true supersize. He also ships the drives with the software versions that TiVo originally shipped them with, which didn't support, or fully support 2TB drives, but after a software update, it's all available, this even includes the TiVo HD line (software shipped not supporting >1TB, but after update, it's all there. Care to take a bit of time and share if you're still only testing DVR functions, and, if so, maybe suffer the slowness, and lag of using the other features to see how they work?


Since the update I have only been using them to schedule a few recordings and watch previously recorded content. Which is the bulk of my normal use. But I have not done anything with the apps or Sp manager etc. since the update.

I have also not noticed any issues with the discovery bar. I've looked at it but not selected any of the offerings.


----------



## ahwman

nooneuknow said:


> If you haven't read through all the posts in this thread, I think you should. I got my update on 4 Premieres the day after I entered my TSNs. I wish I hadn't requested the update. Some seem to share my sentiment. One even returned his TiVo and then had TiVo BLOCK the update.
> 
> Many can't figure out what the update even does. Some are very unhappy with the bugs in it. A few are happy that one issue was resolved for them, which was an issue that didn't even bother me.
> 
> If it's been as long as you say it has, and done as you say you have, I'm thinking TiVo may be holding back on rolling the update to prevent things like people returning their TiVos and calling in for a block on it. If you just want to play around with it and be an unofficial post-Beta Beta tester, that's your call. Not everybody who requests priority manually tries to force the update, so even if it's been halted, you may see reports of "Hey, I just got it!", because it was already downloaded at a scheduled connection, and then only installed when 2am came around and their TiVo wasn't busy or about to be.
> 
> It's rare, but TiVo has protocols in place to recall bad updates. I haven't actually witnessed that happen, but it may have. TiVo stopping a rollout, past the priority list, and part way through the mainstream, I have witnessed.
> 
> Just a suggestion, based on what I interpret from what is posted within these forums, nothing more.


I appreciate your advice, perhaps it's a good thing I haven't yet received the update. Tht said, I was only hoping that suggestions not populating with a TA attached would be fixed which is why I was eager to try the update...


----------



## JWhites

Spoke with TiVo tier 2 support whom are acting as the middleman between me and the engineers on Sunday since they wanted to go over all the issues I've been experiencing with the update and informed me that there are known issues that they are actively working on such as the audio dropping out when switching back and forth between TiVo Central and other HD screens and full screen video. The engineers are fully aware of this thread and are actively monitoring it.


----------



## Darkev

Hey JWhites,

You're back to the older firmware version now, right?


----------



## compnurd

JWhites said:


> Spoke with TiVo tier 2 support whom are acting as the middleman between me and the engineers on Sunday since they wanted to go over all the issues I've been experiencing with the update and informed me that there are known issues that they are actively working on such as the audio dropping out when switching back and forth between TiVo Central and other HD screens and full screen video. The engineers are fully aware of this thread and are actively monitoring it.


I dont know who you think you are talking to but Tivo does NOT monitor this forum. They only monitor the official ones on Tivo.com if you want to have them track the issues... post it there


----------



## steve614

compnurd said:


> I dont know who you think you are talking to but Tivo does NOT monitor this forum. They only monitor the official ones on Tivo.com if you want to have them track the issues... post it there


It's true that TiVo does not ACTIVELY monitor this forum, but I'd be willing to bet that they do reference certain threads when an issue arises.

They'd be stupid not to. This forum can be a valuable asset of information.

But I agree, if you have an issue, it should be posted over at the Tivo.com forums as well.


----------



## ad301

I've noticed that they seem to have fixed the bug in WishLists where Category only WishLists, without any Keywords, had been ignoring exclusion parameters. Exclusions are again actually excluded.

I'm pleasantly surprised to see this, since WLs seem to have been relegated to the bottom of any priority list at TiVo. They're still not in HD, though.


----------



## tatergator1

steve614 said:


> It's true that TiVo does not ACTIVELY monitor this forum, but I'd be willing to bet that they do reference certain threads when an issue arises.
> 
> They'd be stupid not to. This forum can be a valuable asset of information.
> 
> But I agree, if you have an issue, it should be posted over at the Tivo.com forums as well.


Agreed, there are also various "tivo_support_NAME" users on this forum that have posted as recently as a few months ago to some of the more basic troubleshooting posts on here. This is not Tivo's forum, and it is of course not "officially" monitored, but it's easy to believe they monitor certain threads on here when needed.


----------



## compnurd

tatergator1 said:


> Agreed, there are also various "tivo_support_NAME" users on this forum that have posted as recently as a few months ago to some of the more basic troubleshooting posts on here. This is not Tivo's forum, and it is of course not "officially" monitored, but it's easy to believe they monitor certain threads on here when needed.


Yes Easy to believe. But to say they are actively monitoring it is a flat out lie.... and a CSR was just placating someone


----------



## nooneuknow

tatergator1 said:


> Agreed, there are also various "tivo_support_NAME" users on this forum that have posted as recently as a few months ago to some of the more basic troubleshooting posts on here. This is not Tivo's forum, and it is of course not "officially" monitored, but it's easy to believe they monitor certain threads on here when needed.


I had been away from the forums for a while. When I came back, nearly a year ago, the home screen had a huge banner stating that real TiVo representatives were now actively monitoring & may sometimes participate in THESE forums. I just went back to the home screen, and that banner is gone, and there is no mention of TiVo representatives monitoring or interacting here. Any further thoughts I could post, beyond what I just said, would, or will be, speculation and guessing on why that banner was removed from the home screen, and some people jump all over me if I guess or speculate, on any matter, even if I try to make it clear I'm not stating facts.

Generally, I never find myself at the home screen, unless my login session has been terminated, or I hit the Home tab manually.

Every time ANYBODY says that TiVo does, or doesn't, monitor these forums certain people jump at the opportunity to say it's false. I've seen this argument going on all over on just about any thread the subject is brought up. I fail to see how it helps anybody arguing one way or the other. Unless/until a real TiVo rep posts a statement one way or the other, or the forum management does, it's an unknown matter. Just because people don't get a reply from a TiVo rep, doesn't prove a rep hasn't seen the post(s). Those who have been on here long enough, have seen how the reps were treated, long ago, when they tried to actively participate. I don't blame TiVo, if they are monitoring, but laying-low, by not actively participating. Anybody can lurk and never post, if that's their choice, or directive from higher-up.


----------



## compnurd

nooneuknow said:


> I had been away from the forums for a while. When I came back, nearly a year ago, the home screen had a huge banner stating that real TiVo representatives were now actively monitoring & may sometimes participate in THESE forums. I just went back to the home screen, and that banner is gone, and there is no mention of TiVo representatives monitoring or interacting here. Any further thoughts I could post, beyond what I just said, would, or will be, speculation and guessing on why that banner was removed from the home screen, and some people jump all over me if I guess or speculate, on any matter, even if I try to make it clear I'm not stating facts.
> 
> Generally, I never find myself at the home screen, unless my login session has been terminated, or I hit the Home tab manually.
> 
> Every time ANYBODY says that TiVo does, or doesn't, monitor these forums certain people jump at the opportunity to say it's false. I've seen this argument going on all over on just about any thread the subject is brought up. I fail to see how it helps anybody arguing one way or the other. Unless/until a real TiVo rep posts a statement one way or the other, or the forum management does, it's an unknown matter. Just because people don't get a reply from a TiVo rep, doesn't prove a rep hasn't seen the post(s). Those who have been on here long enough, have seen how the reps were treated, long ago, when they tried to actively participate. I don't blame TiVo, if they are monitoring, but laying-low, by not actively participating. Anybody can lurk and never post, if that's their choice, or directive from higher-up.


That Home screen banner was not for these forums but referring to the Tivo Forums

http://www.tivocommunity.com/home/tivo-announcements

Scroll to the bottom

TiVo Support Representatives Now Monitoring forums.tivo.com
Hi all,

A group of specially selected Technical Support representatives have begun to monitor the TiVo forums at http://forums.tivo.com. They will be monitoring 7 days per week and will answer customer questions, where appropriate. We will make our best effort to respond to all Customer Support requests within 6 business hours. TiVo Support Representatives can be identified by their username which begins with: "tivosupport_" and by their TiVo logo avatar.

IMPORTANT! DO NOT post any personal information, such as your credit card details, email address, home address, etc., in the public threads. If you are logged in, you may privately send your TSN to a Support Representative, however, by hovering over an agent's name and choosing 'Send message'. To check your inbox, click on your name in the upper-right of the screen and select the 'Private Messages' tab. DO NOT send your credit card details via Private Message. If you need to make a purchase or conduct a transaction which requires disclosure of your credit card details, only do so by calling TiVo Customer Support.

We hope that this new channel of customer support is helpful for the community.

Thank you!
The TiVo Team


----------



## nooneuknow

compnurd said:


> That Home screen banner was not for these forums but referring to the Tivo Forums


I recall it quite well. I recall it being for THESE forums. I had read it several times, just to be sure that's what it was saying. But, I can't prove what I remember being there, was there. If it was more of a disclaimer, as you are saying then why has it been removed from the home screen, from the placement it was at? I don't have a screen shot of it, and your link goes to a screen I've never seen. The one I saw was at the top of the screen, in large letters, and much shorter than what you provided. How about we agree to disagree, and hope forum management, or a moderator, can set the record straight.

I had to edit this post, as I didn't see all of what you posted, or you added more, within the time limit, that doesn't add a "last edited" note at the bottom...


----------



## compnurd

nooneuknow said:


> I recall it quite well. I recall it being for THESE forums. I had read it several times, just to be sure that's what it was saying. If it was more of a disclaimer, as you are saying then why has it been removed from the home screen? Perhaps, you saw a different banner, than I did, and now neither are there? I don't have a screen shot of it, and your link goes to a screen I've never seen, so how about we agree to disagree, and hope forum management, or a moderator, can set the record straight.


Read updated Post I sent the link


----------



## nooneuknow

compnurd said:


> Read updated Post I sent the link


I saw that after I posted, so my original post has been edited to better address it.

I don't understand the use/need for an announcement, posted on the Home screen here, that TiVo monitors its own forums. I've used it over the years, and gotten responses from TiVo reps.

I don't see how debating if TiVo monitors these forums is helping anybody, and it's off topic, unless posted in a thread devoted to the matter.

I agree with whoever posted that TiVo would be dumb, not to lurk around here in stealth mode, looking for info that they could actually use to fix known issues.

I'll just leave it at that. I really have nothing further to prove anything. At least I can admit to that, and leave it be. Agree to disagree? That's up to you, but I'm done on the subject.


----------



## tatergator1

nooneuknow said:


> I recall it quite well. I recall it being for THESE forums.


I was of the same opinion for many months while the notice was on the "Home" page. The problem was that the heading made you think they were monitoring this forum if you read it quickly, but if you looked closely, the link was for "forums.tivo.com."

Consulting the Internet Archive: TCF from October 13, 2012

Look familiar?


----------



## nooneuknow

tatergator1 said:


> I was of the same opinion for many months while the notice was on the "Home" page. The problem was that the heading made you think they were monitoring this forum if you read it quickly, but if you looked closely, the link was for "forums.tivo.com."
> 
> Consulting the Internet Archive: TCF from October 13, 2012
> 
> Look familiar?


I have seen that one. It's not the full width banner I recall. Maybe what I saw was erroneous and removed. I'm only replying, since you're not one of the "great debaters", even though my prior post said I was done talking about it.


----------



## shamilian

If they do not monitor or make announcements on this forum how do you explain the following post by tivosupport_kaitlyn ?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9503984#post9503984

I have PMed multiple tivosupport_ users about issues....

I think they do read certain threads with certain issues in the title.


----------



## compnurd

shamilian said:


> If they do not monitor or make announcements on this forum how do you explain the following post by tivosupport_kaitlyn ?
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9503984#post9503984
> 
> I have PMed multiple tivosupport_ users about issues....
> 
> I think they do read certain threads with certain issues in the title.


Your assuming they work for Tivo... I can make a user name tivosupport_comp and tell people i can help.... I would not give my info to anyone on here... no matter who they claim they are


----------



## Bierboy

nooneuknow said:


> .... I'm done on the subject.


God DOES answer prayers...


----------



## nooneuknow

compnurd said:


> Your assuming they work for Tivo... I can make a user name tivosupport_comp and tell people i can help.... I would not give my info to anyone on here... no matter who they claim they are


That is a good point, worthy of a :up: . There was somebody active on here a long time ago using the name tcfcameron, which is proof that it's easy for anybody to appear they're representing something that they are not. That person hasn't been active for a long time. But I don't know if they ever tried to act as if they were a tcf representative, had to change their name, or just dropped off the grid.


----------



## compnurd

Bierboy said:


> God DOES answer prayers...


lol maybe he is done talking about super secret sites he cant talk about either


----------



## DogsOfWarandPeac

New bug with update: When you're watching the buffer and are not caught up with live TV then fast forward to catch up there is no sound when you do catch up to live. If you quickly hit rewind and then play the sound comes back.


----------



## shamilian

compnurd said:


> Your assuming they work for Tivo... I can make a user name tivosupport_comp and tell people i can help.... I would not give my info to anyone on here... no matter who they claim they are


If they don't work for tivo then I dont know how they opened and incident report on tivo.com.

I assume someone at the forum will not let you create a tivosupport_ name unless you have a tivo.com email address.....


----------



## nooneuknow

compnurd said:


> lol maybe he is done talking about super secret sites he cant talk about either


I never said anything about any sites being SECRET, just prohibited from being linked to from here, and the core subject matter of the sites being illegal hacking/modding, as well as the subject matters being prohibited in discussions here, by the TCF rules. If some people don't stop, it's only a matter of time before a moderator posts for the bickering to cease, and if it doesn't, the parties involved are considered "warned", and further continuance can result in being banned from the forums. Do I need to post the rules, both written, as well as some that they enforce which are unwritten? I'm trying to be nice about things. If you think my posts are so bad, you have no idea how bad they'd be if I wasn't trying to be nice and abide by the rules.


----------



## nooneuknow

DogsOfWarandPeac said:


> New bug with update: When you're watching the buffer and are not caught up with live TV then fast forward to catch up there is no sound when you do catch up to live. If you quickly hit rewind and then play the sound comes back.


I had that before the update, and it is still a problem after the update. It's not so annoying if you know what to do about it, and that's the kind of content this thread needs. :up:


----------



## cherry ghost

DogsOfWarandPeac said:


> New bug with update: When you're watching the buffer and are not caught up with live TV then fast forward to catch up there is no sound when you do catch up to live. If you quickly hit rewind and then play the sound comes back.


That's now happening to me, but only on one of my two 2-Tuner Premieres. The one it's happening on, HDMI connects the TiVo to the receiver. The one it's not happening on, Toslink connects the TiVo to the receiver(no HDMI input).


----------



## nooneuknow

cherry ghost said:


> That's now happening to me, but only on one of my two 2-Tuner Premieres. The one it's happening on, HDMI connects the TiVo to the receiver. The one it's not happening on, Toslink connects the TiVo to the receiver(no HDMI input).


I use high quality, HDMI 1.4 high speed cables on all four of my premiere (2-tuner, 320GB model) units, and have tried other HDMI cables, but not other means. It -sounds- like an HDMI sync issue, and hopefully, it can be addressed via software, and isn't a hardware issue.

It -seems- like the majority of the "no problems here" reports are coming from Elite owners and those with other newer models than what we have.


----------



## compnurd

nooneuknow said:


> I use high quality, HDMI 1.4 high speed cables on all four of my premiere (2-tuner, 320GB model) units, and have tried other HDMI cables, but not other means. It -sounds- like an HDMI sync issue, and hopefully, it can be addressed via software, and isn't a hardware issue.
> 
> It -seems- like the majority of the "no problems here" reports are coming from Elite owners and those with other newer models than what we have.


I have 2- 2 Tuner Premieres and 1 Premiere 4. All 3 no problems at all with this update


----------



## Bierboy

nooneuknow said:


> I never said anything about any sites being SECRET, just prohibited from being linked to from here, and the core subject matter of the sites being illegal hacking/modding, as well as the subject matters being prohibited in discussions here, by the TCF rules. If some people don't stop, it's only a matter of time before a moderator posts for the bickering to cease, and if it doesn't, the parties involved are considered "warned", and further continuance can result in being banned from the forums. Do I need to post the rules, both written, as well as some that they enforce which are unwritten? I'm trying to be nice about things. If you think my posts are so bad, you have no idea how bad they'd be if I wasn't trying to be nice and abide by the rules.


 I thought you said you were "done"? I'm so disappointed in you...


----------



## nooneuknow

Bierboy said:


> I thought you said you were "done"? I'm so disappointed in you...


I guess I'm compensating for my low post count. I can't help it, it's a disease.


----------



## DogsOfWarandPeac

nooneuknow said:


> I use high quality, HDMI 1.4 high speed cables on all four of my premiere (2-tuner, 320GB model) units, and have tried other HDMI cables, but not other means. It -sounds- like an HDMI sync issue, and hopefully, it can be addressed via software, and isn't a hardware issue.
> 
> It -seems- like the majority of the "no problems here" reports are coming from Elite owners and those with other newer models than what we have.


Mine is a relatively new XL4 connected via HDMI to a receiver.


----------



## DogsOfWarandPeac

nooneuknow said:


> I had that before the update, and it is still a problem after the update. It's not so annoying if you know what to do about it, and that's the kind of content this thread needs. :up:


For me it's definitely new with the update. I guess they're slowly rolling this bug out to everyone.


----------



## Aero 1

DogsOfWarandPeac said:


> New bug with update: When you're watching the buffer and are not caught up with live TV then fast forward to catch up there is no sound when you do catch up to live. If you quickly hit rewind and then play the sound comes back.


add me to the list of getting this new bug after the update, but its only happening to one of my two premieres.


----------



## nooneuknow

DogsOfWarandPeac said:


> Mine is a relatively new XL4 connected via HDMI to a receiver.


I don't have a receiver in the mix anywhere. All of mine are straight into the TV. There's always more in the picture to consider when a receiver is involved. I don't have a lot of knowledge to advise with that configuration, other than some people just wind up not being able to use their receivers with HDMI, or they find workarounds, the specifics of which I can't really advise on... Elite/Premiere 4/XL4 all have different hardware, than older models, like mine, but still are considered the Series 4 Platform.

There's some threads around here specifically about receiver issues, with links to external A/V sites you may want to poke around for info.

I can say the obvious thing to try is eliminating the receiver, as a diagnostic measure, then report back if it makes a difference, and try all other configurations to see if it's an issue across all audio outputs, or specific ones. Some have had to switch the audio output of the TiVo from Dolby Digital to PCM, when using certain receivers. Hopefully others can offer more help. Best of luck. It's always helpful to report back if your issue gets resolved with a future update, or you find a fix that works.


----------



## dianebrat

Bierboy said:


> God DOES answer prayers...


Still no explanation on why he needs a starship however...


----------



## xander777

Has anyone else noticed that the YouTube app is new?

Other than that, I haven't noticed any changes on my 2-tuner Premieres. 
Channel changing is still as slow as it was before and audio drop-out for a few seconds still happens all the time.


----------



## nooneuknow

xander777 said:


> Has anyone else noticed that the YouTube app is new?
> 
> Other than that, I haven't noticed any changes on my 2-tuner Premieres.
> Channel changing is still as slow as it was before and audio drop-out for a few seconds still happens all the time.


I don't use YouTube enough to tell the difference.

Just for clarification, your audio drop outs: Are you talking about the minor annoyance when it drops out going between menu with video window to full screen, or the ones that happen in recordings and/or live TV?

Have you ever experienced a recording or live viewing with video but no sound at all?


----------



## shamilian

xander777 said:


> Has anyone else noticed that the YouTube app is new?
> 
> Other than that, I haven't noticed any changes on my 2-tuner Premieres.
> Channel changing is still as slow as it was before and audio drop-out for a few seconds still happens all the time.


Both youtube and netflix seem to work more reliably for me now. (it has only been a couple of days)

I was having problems using netflix before, I was getting the message that the app is not available before and I had to reboot the tivo to get it to work.


----------



## xander777

The dropouts are on live tv when you hit pause and then play, or rewind and then play. I get several seconds of silence before the audio kicks back in.

I have never had a recording without sound.


----------



## nooneuknow

xander777 said:


> The dropouts are on live tv when you hit pause and then play, or rewind and then play. I get several seconds of silence before the audio kicks back in.
> 
> I have never had a recording without sound.


OK, that's one of the bugs that got ugly with this update. Just hit the instant replay button (opposite of the skip button) as soon as it happens and it will re-sync the sound. This is primarily prominent when using a HDMI connection. Try the other audio outputs and see if any are behaving differently. You can also try changing your audio output setting on the TiVo from Dolby Digital to PCM.

Please, make sure you report this DIRECTLY to TiVo. Too many people report here, but don't bother to report to TiVo. If it hasn't already happened, they need to halt further rollouts, and figure this out.

The more you can report on what model TiVo you have (but not your TSN on here), how it is connected (inputs and outputs, and connected to what), if you are using a CableCard, what brand the CableCard is, who your cable provider is, in what region, and if you are using a Tuning Adapter, etc., will go a long way in getting the issue diagnosed (even though it seems to be all about the software, TiVo will make you try all these steps and give them the same info).

In case you aren't aware, this forum is a privately operated one, not part of TiVo. They have their own forums on their website, which you can actually expect to get a response from TiVo, if you also post there.

Best of luck with your troubleshooting. The more details of your configuration you share here, the more help that can be advised.


----------



## nooneuknow

DogsOfWarandPeac said:


> New bug with update: When you're watching the buffer and are not caught up with live TV then fast forward to catch up there is no sound when you do catch up to live. If you quickly hit rewind and then play the sound comes back.


The instant replay button (opposite of the skip button), is much easier, in my opinion.

Also, review the reply I just posted for xander777.


----------



## JoeKustra

xander777 said:


> The dropouts are on live tv when you hit pause and then play, or rewind and then play. I get several seconds of silence before the audio kicks back in.
> 
> I have never had a recording without sound.


The sound delay varies on connection type and AVR. The more powerful the audio subsystem the longer it can take. This has been my observation since going to digital audio. When going from a receiver with only optical to an AVR with HDMI my delay increased. I can watch the front of the AVR decide what to use for the audio. I guess I could use RW stereo to reduce the delay, but that would not be my first choice.

As for a recording without sound, I never tried to record audio only either. I never tried to make a manual recording of dead air either. I've never seen video only either.


----------



## xander777

nooneuknow said:


> You can also try changing your audio output setting on the TiVo from Dolby Digital to PCM.


Isn't PCM 2-channel stereo only? I'm outputting over optical to my older receiver which handles Dolby Digital but has no HDMI.


----------



## JoeKustra

xander777 said:


> Isn't PCM 2-channel stereo only? I'm outputting over optical to my older receiver which handles Dolby Digital but has no HDMI.


You are going way off thread and may start a long battle. Just google "DD vs PCM" and see the over 1 million hits.


----------



## nooneuknow

xander777 said:


> Isn't PCM 2-channel stereo only? I'm outputting over optical to my older receiver which handles Dolby Digital but has no HDMI.


It's just a diagnostic test to try it. To the best of my knowledge, PCM is still surround, just not as good as Dolby Digital, designed for receivers and TVs that either struggle with DD, aren't fully compliant, or are just too old to support it. It may only be 2-channel, that gets spread to the other speakers to simulate surround. Hopefully somebody else will clear up that question, or you may find the answers by digging around some other threads or A/V related sites. I have a two Sony Bravia TVs, one very old, one newer, that will accept Dolby Digital, with either HDMI, or optical, even though they only have stereo speakers. I can even set devices to full 7.1 DD, and get great sound. I use the L/R outputs of the TV to feed a set of powered/amplified computer speakers, with a subwoofer, for my rear speakers. I set the TV to simulate surround with the front speakers, and it really does a nice job of simulating surround. If I set it to stereo, it sucks.

If your receiver doesn't even support HDMI, I'd consider getting something newer, as non HDMI receivers are unlikely to give you a full and true surround experience, to the best of my knowledge. This likely will not fix your problem(s) that came in the update, but will give you a better surround experience and greater compatibility/capabilities, especially if you're using other devices that have greater capabilities than the receiver supports.


----------



## nooneuknow

JoeKustra said:


> You are going way off thread and may start a long battle. Just google "DD vs PCM" and see the over 1 million hits.


This is a very valid point, especially given the prior post I just added.


----------



## xander777

nooneuknow said:


> It's just a diagnostic test to try it. To the best of my knowledge, PCM is still surround, just not as good as Dolby Digital, designed for receivers and TVs that either struggle with DD, aren't fully compliant, or are just too old to support it. It may only be 2-channel, that gets spread to the other speakers to simulate surround. Hopefully somebody else will clear up that question, or you may find the answers by digging around some other threads or A/V related sites. I have a two Sony Bravia TVs, one very old, one newer, that will accept Dolby Digital, with either HDMI, or optical, even though they only have stereo speakers. I can even set devices to full 7.1 DD, and get great sound. I use the L/R outputs of the TV to feed a set of powered/amplified computer speakers, with a subwoofer, for my rear speakers. I set the TV to simulate surround with the front speakers, and it really does a nice job of simulating surround. If I set it to stereo, it sucks.
> 
> If your receiver doesn't even support HDMI, I'd consider getting something newer, as non HDMI receivers are unlikely to give you a full and true surround experience, to the best of my knowledge. This likely will not fix your problem(s) that came in the update, but will give you a better surround experience and greater compatibility/capabilities, especially if you're using other devices that have greater capabilities than the receiver supports.


I will try it as a diagnostic test. Wasn't trying to start a DD vs PCM war, just wanted to confirm what I thought was true about PCM from my past experience.

I will also try to switch my receiver off auto detect and see if that helps. I did not have this problem before the fall update.

Also, my other Premiere IS hooked to a receiver with HDMI and it has the same dropout issue but it's shorter in duration.

Just trying to determine if the issue is the TiVo or the receivers and I am leaning towards the TiVo as it happens on both of them.


----------



## nooneuknow

xander777 said:


> Just trying to determine if the issue is the TiVo or the receivers and I am leaning towards the TiVo as it happens on both of them.


Yes, in my opinion, based on what's been posted here, and my own experience, the root of your problem is at the TiVo, and has either been introduced by the update, or made worse. I was trying to help you find a workaround until TiVo fixes the issue (which might take a while). If you contact support, they'll make you try most of the same things I suggested, and may even deny any knowledge of there being any issue on their part, until they find a fix. This is based on my experience in dealing with them.


----------



## Bierboy

nooneuknow said:


> The instant replay button (opposite of the skip button), is much easier, in my opinion...


I used to have to do this with my original S3...and, yes, the jump back button is much easier.


----------



## OC7

DogsOfWarandPeac said:


> New bug with update: When you're watching the buffer and are not caught up with live TV then fast forward to catch up there is no sound when you do catch up to live. If you quickly hit rewind and then play the sound comes back.


I'm also getting this new bug with the new update on my XL4 which is connected via HDMI to the receiver. The bug does not happen on my 2 tuner Premiere which is connected to a mini receiver (for audio) via RCA red/white cables.


----------



## bigguy126

Serious new problem. Watching playback of a recorded show. Picture froze. FF or rewind did nothing. Went to the guide and could not tune to any live show. Got "channel is unavailable" and black screen. Went to another recorded show and started playing it. Screen was black but had control to ff and rewind. All menus seemed to be functioning. Box was responsive in that regard. Was able to get to the settings menu. Checked the dvr diagnostics and nothing seemed out of ordinary. Did a re-boot and every thing is functioning normally.


----------



## nooneuknow

OC7 said:


> I'm also getting this new bug with the new update on my XL4 which is connected via HDMI to the receiver. The bug does not happen on my 2 tuner Premiere which is connected to a mini receiver (for audio) via RCA red/white cables.


That's because that is the analog audio output. HDMI & optical are digital. Good to know, but would help to know if it has the same problem as the other if you change it to HDMI.


----------



## MeInDallas

bigguy126 said:


> Serious new problem. Watching playback of a recorded show. Picture froze. FF or rewind did nothing. Went to the guide and could not tune to any live show. Got "channel is unavailable" and black screen. Went to another recorded show and started playing it. Screen was black but had control to ff and rewind. All menus seemed to be functioning. Box was responsive in that regard. Was able to get to the settings menu. Checked the dvr diagnostics and nothing seemed out of ordinary. Did a re-boot and every thing is functioning normally.


Was this after you got the update?


----------



## bigguy126

MeInDallas said:


> Was this after you got the update?


Yes, First time I ever got this was today and since receiving the update.


----------



## nooneuknow

bigguy126 said:


> Yes, First time I ever got this was today and since receiving the update.


One of mine did all of that and the discovery bar was flashing tiles around so fast it could've given an epileptic a seizure. After a reboot, it never did it again. Perhaps the one automatic reboot after the update left something unchanged or corrupted, and the second manual one fixed it.


----------



## nooneuknow

Here's something that hasn't been discussed yet:

I'm in the habit of putting my TiVos in standby when not in use, and at night. When my update came in for my bedroom TiVo, it TiVo rebooted while I was asleep, then after the update, went right back into standby. When I woke it up, I got the blue "just a moment" screen, and it took nearly ten minutes to get to the menu. From there, wacky problems I just described in my prior post began, and a manual reboot was required to exorcise the demons that apparently had possessed my TiVo UI.

The TiVos that weren't in standby didn't act possessed after the update. I bet that explains why only the one unit went berserk. I had forgotten to put the others in standby, as I usually would.

Anybody else have their units in standby when the update came in?


----------



## lessd

nooneuknow said:


> Here's something that hasn't been discussed yet:
> 
> I'm in the habit of putting my TiVos in standby when not in use, and at night. When my update came in for my bedroom TiVo, it TiVo rebooted while I was asleep, then after the update, went right back into standby. When I woke it up, I got the blue "just a moment" screen, and it took nearly ten minutes to get to the menu. From there, wacky problems I just described in my prior post began, and a manual reboot was required to exorcise the demons that apparently had possessed my TiVo UI.
> 
> The TiVos that weren't in standby didn't act possessed after the update. I bet that explains why only the one unit went berserk. I had forgotten to put the others in standby, as I usually would.
> 
> Anybody else have their units in standby when the update came in?


I never understood the reason anybody would use standby, unless the cable co emergency signal would not interfere with a recording, my wife records things many nights and never complained about missing anything, only complains in playback when the emergency signal comes on.


----------



## Darkev

Both of my Premieres are always in standby when I'm not watching the TV. I never experienced a 10 minute Just a Moment screen.

I don't like the LED on all of the time. Especially in my bedroom. I like pitch black darkness when I'm sleeping.


----------



## Goldwing2001

DogsOfWarandPeac said:


> New bug with update: When you're watching the buffer and are not caught up with live TV then fast forward to catch up there is no sound when you do catch up to live. If you quickly hit rewind and then play the sound comes back.


Same happens to me. Never had that happen before the new update.


----------



## supasta

On a currently recording program in the NPL, selecting "Stop recording & delete" will stop the recording, but will not delete it.


----------



## mattack

I only skimmed the recent messages in this thread.. I sure hope when I get home this is not shown to be wrong.. but at least over the weekend, it SEEMED like the "stuff getting deleted way too early" problem is fixed.

As of yesterday, I had over 65 items in my Recently Deleted. Admittedly, the VAST VAST majority of those were short CNET videos. However, enough of them were regular size (for me -- I record mostly in SD) half hour or longer shows, that it seemed like I wasn't seeing the problem anymore.

Previously, even though I was supposedly in the mid-high 60% full, I would have to CAREFULLY manage the space, or RD would end up empty (and I have sometimes lost shows)... That only didn't happen from when I first got my Premiere 4.. only since the last update, whenever that was.

Also, as was discussed in the kmttg thread, downloading *from pause point* to a computer seems to be broken. This was never a "supported" thing, so unfortunately it might not be fixed. I use(d) it very often, however.

I also noticed that when I transferred a show FROM my Tivo HD, it *DID* keep the episode # info. Usually only the bare amount of info was transferred. (title + description). Though I think I had one other case (an episode of Quest) where it DIDN'T transfer the ep #. However, in the past, I *never* saw it transfer the ep # between Tivos.


----------



## mattack

supasta said:


> On a currently recording program in the NPL, selecting "Stop recording & delete" will stop the recording, but will not delete it.


Report this on the Tivo fora.


----------



## nooneuknow

Darkev said:


> Both of my Premieres are always in standby when I'm not watching the TV. I never experienced a 10 minute Just a Moment screen.
> 
> I don't like the LED on all of the time. Especially in my bedroom. I like pitch black darkness when I'm sleeping.


Same reasons here, plus in standby no EAS issues, all the video output processing is freed up, resulting in a minute amount of power savings, sometimes a lower cooling fan speed (less noise), less heat being pumped into my small room, and less hard drive noise (I turn off intelliseek, as WD even specifies better seek performance values that way). If I'm watching the TiVo, I don't even hear the seeking anyway).

There's a setting to turn all LEDs off in the TiVo settings, but I like them on when not in standby.

lessd's comment shows another viewpoint. I've always wondered what the ratio of standby users -vs.- non-users is... EAS alert tests come in at all hours of day and night, EVERY day in my area. It would be less bothersome if the system would return the tuners to the channels they were on, or resume the recording you're in the middle of watching once the test has completed. For some reason, sometimes the EAS tests get recorded either within, or instead of, the program, if not in standby, as well. I'm fully aware that there's different EAS systems that the cablecos can use, and some areas of the country/cable markets only do the tests at night, and only as often as required by law. My area/market isn't like that.

I don't desire to incite a string of complaining about EAS or debate on the subject in this thread. I'm just stating my primary reason for using standby mode.


----------



## aaronwt

supasta said:


> On a currently recording program in the NPL, selecting "Stop recording & delete" will stop the recording, but will not delete it.


I just did this last night on a recording from the Weather Channel. It was deleted when I selected "Stop Recording and Delete" Well at least it is not in the Now playing list any more. So I am assuming it is deleted. I have not actually checked the recently deleted folder.


----------



## nooneuknow

mattack said:


> I also noticed that when I transferred a show FROM my Tivo HD, it *DID* keep the episode # info. Usually only the bare amount of info was transferred. (title + description). Though I think I had one other case (an episode of Quest) where it DIDN'T transfer the ep #. However, in the past, I *never* saw it transfer the ep # between Tivos.


I've never understood why the metadata gets lost between Premieres, but stays intact between HDs. It appears that more of it is remaining intact between Premieres now.


----------



## supasta

aaronwt said:


> I just did this last night on a recording from the Weather Channel. It was deleted when I selected "Stop Recording and Delete" Well at least it is not in the Now playing list any more. So I am assuming it is deleted. I have not actually checked the recently deleted folder.


Interesting. I just noticed it and started many other recordings to try to reproduce - all with the same result. That's why I posted here.
Each time, the recording stays in the NPL.

EDIT: Just tried it again, and it worked as expected. The show was deleted. Hmm..


----------



## nooneuknow

aaronwt said:


> I just did this last night on a recording from the Weather Channel. It was deleted when I selected "Stop Recording and Delete" Well at least it is not in the Now playing list any more. So I am assuming it is deleted. I have not actually checked the recently deleted folder.


I've had items that I deleted, which were in the deleted items folder return back to the NPL, after rebooting since this update.


----------



## JoeKustra

Darkev said:


> Both of my Premieres are always in standby when I'm not watching the TV. I never experienced a 10 minute Just a Moment screen.
> 
> I don't like the LED on all of the time. Especially in my bedroom. I like pitch black darkness when I'm sleeping.


You can turn off all the LED indicators except the amber one used when a remote control command is received. It's a Setup option.


----------



## compnurd

supasta said:


> Interesting. I just noticed it and started many other recordings to try to reproduce - all with the same result. That's why I posted here.
> Each time, the recording stays in the NPL.
> 
> EDIT: Just tried it again, and it worked as expected. The show was deleted. Hmm..


I just tried also and the recording deleted after stopping it


----------



## JoeKustra

nooneuknow said:


> Same reasons here, plus in standby no EAS issues, all the video output processing is freed up, resulting in a minute amount of power savings, sometimes a lower cooling fan speed (less noise), less heat being pumped into my small room, and less hard drive noise (I turn off intelliseek, as WD even specifies better seek performance values that way). If I'm watching the TiVo, I don't even hear the seeking anyway).
> 
> There's a setting to turn all LEDs off in the TiVo settings, but I like them on when not in standby.
> 
> lessd's comment shows another viewpoint. I've always wondered what the ratio of standby users -vs.- non-users is... EAS alert tests come in at all hours of day and night, EVERY day in my area. It would be less bothersome if the system would return the tuners to the channels they were on, or resume the recording you're in the middle of watching once the test has completed. For some reason, sometimes the EAS tests get recorded either within, or instead of, the program, if not in standby, as well. I'm fully aware that there's different EAS systems that the cablecos can use, and some areas of the country/cable markets only do the tests at night, and only as often as required by law. My area/market isn't like that.
> 
> I don't desire to incite a string of complaining about EAS or debate on the subject in this thread. I'm just stating my primary reason for using standby mode.


Your cable feed is worse than mine. I get EAS alerts monthly and usually during the day. The channel changes to the local analog message channel, which used to be my TVGOS channel BTW, and stays there. Also, I receive no audio during the alert. I never use Standby mode since I would find the unit die after hitting the Live button to stop Standby. But that was last year.


----------



## CoxInPHX

I noticed that deleting programs from the Recently Deleted Folder now takes over 5 seconds for the list to repopulate, before I can delete the next item.

Before the update it was nearly instant.


----------



## slowbiscuit

supasta said:


> Interesting. I just noticed it and started many other recordings to try to reproduce - all with the same result. That's why I posted here.
> Each time, the recording stays in the NPL.
> 
> EDIT: Just tried it again, and it worked as expected. The show was deleted. Hmm..


This bug always happened in a wishlist for me, not sure if it's still there. Never saw it on an SP or individual recording. You'd have to delete it as an extra step (not a big deal).


----------



## tomhorsley

dianebrat said:


> I've never understood this vestigial tail issue with a Tivo, it was one thing to use the channel up and down buttons when you had at most 20 channels, but with hundreds of channels spread all over the spectrum, surfing by guide just makes so much more sense to me, the only time I use the CH up and down buttons is as page buttons in the menu.


It is easy to understand: The guide doesn't tell me what channel is currently running a commercial. Random surfing is to find something that isn't a commercial .


----------



## BP-isMe

Hi All,

I had found in another thread that the recording will delete if it is on the tuner that you are not watching. I have found this work around to work. It's still annoying but there is a way to delete.

Brad


----------



## xander777

xander777 said:


> I will try it as a diagnostic test. Wasn't trying to start a DD vs PCM war, just wanted to confirm what I thought was true about PCM from my past experience.
> 
> I will also try to switch my receiver off auto detect and see if that helps. I did not have this problem before the fall update.
> 
> Also, my other Premiere IS hooked to a receiver with HDMI and it has the same dropout issue but it's shorter in duration.
> 
> Just trying to determine if the issue is the TiVo or the receivers and I am leaning towards the TiVo as it happens on both of them.


Just to update: I turned off auto detect on my receiver and the audio dropout went away. Apparently it was not a TiVo problem.


----------



## Bierboy

Darkev said:


> ... I like pitch black darkness when I'm sleeping.


If you're sleeping, how do you know if it's pitch black or not?


----------



## bmgoodman

nooneuknow said:


> I've never understood why the metadata gets lost between Premieres, but stays intact between HDs. It appears that more of it is remaining intact between Premieres now.


I'm guessing it's because most of the original Tivo programmers have moved on to other companies.

Also, as the size of the code grows, the more difficult it is for anyone to be an expert in the whole thing.


----------



## sldavis1952

Slightly different messages display now for tuning problems with version 20.3.1.
Now:
This channel is not authorized. Contact your cable provider for more information (V58).
Problem with the signal on this channel. Trying again. (V53)

Before:
This channel is not authorized. Contact your cable provider for more information.
Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again.


----------



## JoeKustra

sldavis1952 said:


> Slightly different messages display now for tuning problems with version 20.3.1.
> Now:
> This channel is not authorized. Contact your cable provider for more information (V58).
> Problem with the signal on this channel. Trying again. (V53)
> 
> Before:
> This channel is not authorized. Contact your cable provider for more information.
> Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again.


I'm sure it's not related to making tech support easier. That could never happen. No, not possible. Can't be. Impossible.


----------



## JWhites

CoxInPHX said:


> I noticed that deleting programs from the Recently Deleted Folder now takes over 5 seconds for the list to repopulate, before I can delete the next item.
> 
> Before the update it was nearly instant.


I noticed that as well.


----------



## UCLABB

I noticed that when you have deleted the last program from a folder, you now get just a blank screen. You used to get a message that the folder was now empty. No big deal, but I was just a little flummoxed waiting for the message that never came.


----------



## UCLABB

CoxInPHX said:


> I noticed that deleting programs from the Recently Deleted Folder now takes over 5 seconds for the list to repopulate, before I can delete the next item.
> 
> Before the update it was nearly instant.


Same here. Probably an eccentric practice on my part, but I usually like to clear MOST of the recently deleted folder so that some of the oldest programs stay there, ones I might want to recover in the future for say a visitor.


----------



## JandS

Check out LightDims.com removable plastic film cut to convenient shapes or in full sheets to dim or completely cover LED lights. The inventor, Jason, is a great example of an enthusiastic young entrepreneur marketing a unique product in a responsible and caring manner. (no affiliation, never met him, just called him out of the blue a couple of years ago to rave about how great LightDims are; we've since given them as gifts to many friends.)



Darkev said:


> I don't like the LED on all of the time. Especially in my bedroom. I like pitch black darkness when I'm sleeping.


----------



## morac

JandS said:


> Check out LightDims.com removable plastic film cut to convenient shapes or in full sheets to dim or completely cover LED lights. The inventor, Jason, is a great example of an enthusiastic young entrepreneur marketing a unique product in a responsible and caring manner. (no affiliation, never met him, just called him out of the blue a couple of years ago to rave about how great LightDims are; we've since given them as gifts to many friends.)


Previously known as masking or duct tape.


----------



## Bierboy

CoxInPHX said:


> I noticed that deleting programs from the Recently Deleted Folder....


My question is why you do you even feel the need to do that?


----------



## aaronwt

Darkev said:


> Both of my Premieres are always in standby when I'm not watching the TV. I never experienced a 10 minute Just a Moment screen.
> 
> I don't like the LED on all of the time. Especially in my bedroom. I like pitch black darkness when I'm sleeping.


I recently used the LightDIMS on mine. They have the normal ones that block 50% to 80% of the light. And they have other ones that block 100% of the light. You just place it over the LED and it works great. I've used it ony TiVos, alarm clock and other electronics with bright LEDs. But I prefer the one that still let some ligth through.. I still want to be able to see the LED.

http://www.lightdims.com/

I got mine from Frys. They were only $2 for each package from them.

http://www.frys.com/product/6717915?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

EDIT: I guess I was a little late. I see somene else already mentioned the LightDIMS.


----------



## JandS

Proving there's a little Red Green in us all  
http://www.redgreen.com/



morac said:


> Previously known as masking or duct tape.


----------



## tomhorsley

morac said:


> Previously known as masking or duct tape.


Actually electrical tape blends in better with the black bezel on my vizio TV that has an illuminated vizio logo bright enough to read by that is always turned on . I thought about taking it apart and drilling out the LEDs, but the black electrical tape worked OK.


----------



## scandia101

Bierboy said:


> My question is why you do you even feel the need to do that?


----------



## compnurd

It appears the MLB App is supposed to be apart of this service update as Tivo is now calling it.. I wonder if it got released early..


----------



## gonzotek

compnurd said:


> It appears the MLB App is supposed to be apart of this service update as Tivo is now calling it.. I wonder if it got released early..


I'm thinking it's likely they needed to update something in the platform (there's a new version of Flash, the most likely thing). Then they'll deploy the app once all (or at least the bulk) of the boxes are running the new software.


----------



## compnurd

gonzotek said:


> I'm thinking it's likely they needed to update something in the platform (there's a new version of Flash, the most likely thing). Then they'll deploy the app once all (or at least the bulk) of the boxes are running the new software.


App is supposed to be released within 72 hours..


----------



## az1097

I was excited to find out about this update since I've been waiting for it to debug the many existing glitches in the Premiere unit, so I went ahead and requested a priority update. Then I started reading through this thread which made me somewhat skeptical about my decision to make the request at this time. Well I just received the update this morning and on the network connection screen the last status shows "pending restart"...Now I'd like to know if it'll restart automatically or should I restart it, and if I were to restart it myself, should I do it through the Tivo Menus or unplug the unit? (What's the difference if Any).


----------



## sbiller

az1097 said:


> I was excited to find out about this update since I've been waiting for it to debug the many existing glitches in the Premiere unit, so I went ahead and requested a priority update. Then I started reading through this thread which made me somewhat skeptical about my decision to make the request at this time. Well I just received the update this morning and on the network connection screen the last status shows "pending restart"...Now I'd like to know if it'll restart automatically or should I restart it, and if I were to restart it myself, should I do it through the Tivo Menus or unplug the unit? (What's the difference if Any).


You can just restart it from the help menu or wait until 2a tonight when it will restart itself.


----------



## djwilso

UCLABB said:


> I noticed that when you have deleted the last program from a folder, you now get just a blank screen. You used to get a message that the folder was now empty. No big deal, but I was just a little flummoxed waiting for the message that never came.


I experienced this exact same thing just last night.

It took me almost 2 minutes to figure out it was never coming back and I just pressed Left arrow to get back out.

The previous behavior was much more intuitive, of course...


----------



## crxssi

Bierboy said:


> My question is why you do you even feel the need to do that?


I am wondering that too.

I delete stuff out of suggestions all the time- it frees space of junk I don't want so it is encouraged to record more and other suggestions. Makes sense.

But why delete anything out of the deleted folder?


----------



## JoeKustra

crxssi said:


> I am wondering that too.
> 
> I delete stuff out of suggestions all the time- it frees space of junk I don't want so it is encouraged to record more and other suggestions. Makes sense.
> 
> But why delete anything out of the deleted folder?


Can you spell OCD? I also have suggestions disabled. It's a big world out there.


----------



## Aero 1

I just got the MLB app minutes ago and since it's part of this update, here is what I think of it from the other thread:



Aero 1 said:


> I just got it and holy sh*t balls is this app fracking slow. The stream is the lowest quality possible and the remote response takes a year and a half. I'm going to give them 24 hours of benefit of doubt becaus......and rewinding it just rebooted my TiVo in the middle of a recording. Fracking wonderful. I'll stick with apple tv and roku for MLB.


----------



## moyekj

Par for the course for all Flash apps. Probably only useable via the Mini right now. However I detest baseball so I won't be trying it out.


----------



## astrohip

nooneuknow said:


> lessd's comment shows another viewpoint. I've always wondered what the ratio of standby users -vs.- non-users is...


WAG... 98% don't know or use standby.



UCLABB said:


> I noticed that when you have deleted the last program from a folder, you now get just a blank screen. You used to get a message that the folder was now empty. No big deal, but I was just a little flummoxed waiting for the message that never came.


That has GOT to be a newly introduced bug. There is no way that is better than before.


----------



## mattack

nooneuknow said:


> I've never understood why the metadata gets lost between Premieres, but stays intact between HDs. It appears that more of it is remaining intact between Premieres now.


Maybe you're right about TivoHDs.. but when I transferred between my Series 3 OLED & TivoHD (generally accepted to be part of the same generation, and AFAIK *relatively* similar software), I would lose the metadata. I used to do this often for very very geeky "space management", since I would often transfer from pause point then nuke the original.

I presume they just expected people to use the transfer for "watch the rest of the program in another room", and wouldn't generally care about the metadata. While I still think it's a bug, I can sort of understand why they took the shortcut.

(This was before I downloaded programs to a computer hard drive with kmttg, which now I'm a fan of.. and transfer from pause point is now unfortunately broken... I use(d) that to download JUST the musical guest segment from Letterman for example.)

One other thing I've noticed is that entering Recently Deleted is VERY slow, and does the spinning gear for a while.. and even if I page up/down it does it again. It definitely did NOT used to do this.


----------



## mattack

CoxInPHX said:


> I noticed that deleting programs from the Recently Deleted Folder now takes over 5 seconds for the list to repopulate, before I can delete the next item.
> 
> Before the update it was nearly instant.


Please report on Tivo's forum. I will report the slowness issue (entering recently deleted) at some point (by the weekend at the latest)


----------



## mattack

BTW, I certainly don't think the UI is faster in general, like some others said. I think there might be a few things that are a BIT faster, but it's still slow as molasses.. I routinely hit a key repeatedly because I think it missed it (yeah I know the Tivo blinks on remote reception)... e.g. I'll Tivo Tivo, nothing happened.. then Tivo again.. ARGH.


----------



## innocentfreak

mattack said:


> Maybe you're right about TivoHDs.. but when I transferred between my Series 3 OLED & TivoHD (generally accepted to be part of the same generation, and AFAIK *relatively* similar software), I would lose the metadata.


I wonder if it has to do with transfers being based on older code and metadata format changes over the years. I doubt transfers gets too much attention.


----------



## nooneuknow

CoxInPHX said:


> I noticed that deleting programs from the Recently Deleted Folder now takes over 5 seconds for the list to repopulate, before I can delete the next item.
> 
> Before the update it was nearly instant.


Me too. Very annoying, as this was how it used to be, was sped up by a prior update, now back to being a very time consuming thing to do.


----------



## nooneuknow

Bierboy said:


> If you're sleeping, how do you know if it's pitch black or not?


If he's like me, pitch-black makes it easier to FALL ASLEEP, or back asleep.


----------



## nooneuknow

UCLABB said:


> I noticed that when you have deleted the last program from a folder, you now get just a blank screen. You used to get a message that the folder was now empty. No big deal, but I was just a little flummoxed waiting for the message that never came.


Me too. It took me a moment to figure it out, but the older TiVo users in the house are getting very annoyed by it.


----------



## nooneuknow

Bierboy said:


> My question is why you do you even feel the need to do that?


Privacy, perhaps? If there was no need or use for it why would it be something TiVo gave us the ability to do YEARS ago, even on older TiVos? Now that any Premiere user on the same account can look in others' Recently Deleted folder, and even recover items so they can be transferred, it's more helpful as an option. So, definitely privacy, for this home. Before that I just liked to do it, anyway.

If you split the TiVos onto separate accounts, you can't share/transfer what you want to.


----------



## nooneuknow

az1097 said:


> I was excited to find out about this update since I've been waiting for it to debug the many existing glitches in the Premiere unit, so I went ahead and requested a priority update. Then I started reading through this thread which made me somewhat skeptical about my decision to make the request at this time. Well I just received the update this morning and on the network connection screen the last status shows "pending restart"...Now I'd like to know if it'll restart automatically or should I restart it, and if I were to restart it myself, should I do it through the Tivo Menus or unplug the unit? (What's the difference if Any).


It will automatically reboot at 2AM, or the next time it isn't recording, after that point, or about to record something after that point. As long as you check your To Do List, and there's a couple hours of nothing, a menu initiated manual reboot will start the update. Unplugging the unit should only be done if locked up and unplugging the cable input doesn't unlock it, or as a last resort, or if you absolutely need to for some other reason.


----------



## nooneuknow

mattack said:


> BTW, I certainly don't think the UI is faster in general, like some others said. I think there might be a few things that are a BIT faster, but it's still slow as molasses.. I routinely hit a key repeatedly because I think it missed it (yeah I know the Tivo blinks on remote reception)... e.g. I'll Tivo Tivo, nothing happened.. then Tivo again.. ARGH.


Same here. It started out faster, but worked its way to being slower in less than 1/2 day. Even on a reboot, I can get the old speed back, but it slows down quite quickly.

EDIT: I mean that post-update, given 1/2 day of uptime, my TiVos are now slower than they would run pre-update after being up for 2-3 months without any reboots (what I refer to as "old speed").


----------



## nooneuknow

One update I found added, is that if you press Info button, the info window is just transparent enough to see the closed captions behind it. I imagine those with super bright contrast ratios may even be able to see the picture behind the info window. I like this. I'd like to see the transparency adjustable, at some point.

So, my rating of the update at this point is: 1 step forward and 10 or more steps back.


----------



## nooneuknow

compnurd said:


> It appears the MLB App is supposed to be apart of this service update as Tivo is now calling it.. I wonder if it got released early..


It's been somewhat common on Premieres, for new things to appear, but not be useable until something outside the update is turned on by TiVo on their end.

Sometimes, it's just a matter of waiting until the next VCM connection, which you can view the details of on the System Information screen.


----------



## nooneuknow

JoeKustra said:


> Your cable feed is worse than mine. I get EAS alerts monthly and usually during the day. The channel changes to the local analog message channel, which used to be my TVGOS channel BTW, and stays there. Also, I receive no audio during the alert. I never use Standby mode since I would find the unit die after hitting the Live button to stop Standby. But that was last year.


I always have used to main TiVo button at the very top of the remote. Give it a try, if you'd like to see if it works differently for you. It never has caused a lockup for me. Live TV makes sense causing a long delay, since the standby mode turns off the video output processing, as well as putting the cablecard in a different state, and could be confused as a lockup, or could cause one if everything doesn't wake up in the exact way it should.

I park my tuners on antenna channels, when I don't intend to watch Live TV, or am done for the day, before going into standby, while I have no antenna, which reduces the delay if the video window of the home menu is still on a channel not requiring cablecard processing when it resumes from standby. Why would I park my tuners? less hard drive thrashing and wear recording buffers not needed. Why Antenna? I used to park them on non-valid or unauthorized cable channels, but a few updates back, I noticed it was still buffering, even though there was no audio/video to buffer. I even have 2 Season Passes at the very bottom of my list to record one minute of one antenna channel, at the same time, around 4AM, when there's never anything on I'd record or watch. It detects no signal, aborts recording, and no recording shows up in my NPL to have to delete. Non-valid/unauthorized cable channels will cause two empty, but disk using, recordings in the NPL.


----------



## nooneuknow

JandS said:


> Check out LightDims.com removable plastic film cut to convenient shapes or in full sheets to dim or completely cover LED lights. The inventor, Jason, is a great example of an enthusiastic young entrepreneur marketing a unique product in a responsible and caring manner. (no affiliation, never met him, just called him out of the blue a couple of years ago to rave about how great LightDims are; we've since given them as gifts to many friends.)


While not quite as pretty, the scotch tape that is translucent (cloudy), until applied to paper, Works *fairly* well on any of those annoying BLUE LEDS, or the other colors. You just keep adding a piece over the top of another until it's not burning a hole in your retina, or annoying you. Duct tape leaves residue and can damage things. masking tape is just ugly, and will leave residue if left on for more a month. The translucent scotch tape will not leave residue, is easily removed, and easily adjusted to the brightness you can stand.

Being able to easily remove the dimming material and the adhesive is a must, when dealing with such easily damaged (cosmetically or physically) surfaces. Some duct tape may be stronger than the adhesive behind that part of the front TiVo panel.

LightDims sound better for somebody who may want to have all the LEDs on and visible, but not to the point of disturbing a very dark sleeping environment.

I don't think TiVo could make a software change that would dim them, but I'm not 100% sure, just around 98%.

The adventurous could use the dimming material between the internal LED and the plastic optics to the front panel. There is a gap.

This is going off-topic, so let's not start a chain of people saying how much blue (or other color), LEDs annoy them. This really has nothing to do with the thread topic at all, nor does the quips about people who like deleting their Recently Deleted items having OCD,or repeatedly questioning why anybody does it. The feature/function is there, always has been, and has been negatively impacted by this update. That's all that matters about it.


----------



## MeInDallas

JoeKustra said:


> I'm still waiting, but two observations from another forum:
> 
> "I have noticed two changes:
> 
> 1. When selecting "A" option while in the grid; the order from left to right for the channels listed are; All, MyChannels, and Favorites (whoopee). Guess they could just make it circular, it really does not matter what order they are in.
> 
> 2. And of course "another bug" - Really TiVo do they not even test this stuff. New Bug: When going into "signal meter" it now freezes after selecting a couple of channels and does not report real results - thus ALL channels now report the same thing for signal strength. Once the signal strength meter is frozen; it becomes frozen in DVR Diagnostics too. The only way I know to fix it, is to unplug reboot."


I noticed something similar to the signal level youre talking about. When I look into the diagnostic screen to check my signal levels, now it always shows around 94 no matter what I change the channels to. Before it would show anywhere between the mid 80's to the high 90's depending on the channel, but now it just seems to peg right around 94 all the time. Even after I rebooted and put it on different channels its doing the same thing. Very odd.


----------



## nooneuknow

MeInDallas said:


> I noticed something similar to the signal level youre talking about. When I look into the diagnostic screen to check my signal levels, now it always shows around 94 no matter what I change the channels to. Before it would show anywhere between the mid 80's to the high 90's depending on the channel, but now it just seems to peg right around 94 all the time. Even after I rebooted and put it on different channels its doing the same thing. Very odd.


I'm suggesting that the FIRST step, no matter what the issue, should be pulling the CABLE input, give it a minute (or as many minutes as your patience allows, or if you regain control if locked-up), re-connect, check the state of whatever problem the person is troubleshooting, then proceed to reboot.

In order no prevent unnecessary *potential* drive corruption, people should refrain from yanking the power cord, unless they do so after successfully starting a reboot by menu, IMMEDIATELY after the :down: :down: :down: & enter button, when the system fan kicks into high, and before the yellow light starts flickering (the point at which you could initiate kickstart tests).

Yes, any consumer DVR is *supposed to be* able to handle a power loss at any time. But, there's still a chance of putting the system into the GSOD reboot loop, if the power loss corrupts something and the unit is unable to fix it at the boot sequence file system check. I speak from experience, as well as what I've read in other threads. Yanking the power cord at any other time than I have stated, is risky.

If you don't believe me, or just don't care, knock yourselves out, just hope you don't lose all your recordings and have to re-image your drive.

Just trying to help, that's all.


----------



## tomhorsley

JWhites said:


> Do you happen to have a Cisco/Scientific Atlanta cablecard? If so that's an issue with the cablecard firmware. Comcast has been rolling out a firmware update to their customers that fixes that issue, I would imagine other cable providers who also use this brand of cablecard are rolling out this same firmware update since it was a known issue that was addressed in the Cisco firmware release notes.


I finally got around to looking through the cable card menus, and it is indeed a Scientific Atlanta cable card which says it is running an OS from June 2007, so it does seem like a firmware update might be out there after seven years .


----------



## Bierboy

mattack said:


> BTW, I certainly don't think the UI is faster in general, like some others said. I think there might be a few things that are a BIT faster, but it's still slow as molasses....ARGH.


Totally agree. I got my XL4 (moved from an original S3) in December, and, from what I had read, expected the UI to speed up after a week or two. No go....still very sluggish. I refuse to go back to SD menus, however, so I'll live with. Doesn't mean I'm happy with it...


----------



## nooneuknow

tomhorsley said:


> I finally got around to looking through the cable card menus, and it is indeed a Scientific Atlanta cable card which says it is running an OS from June 2007, so it does seem like a firmware update might be out there after seven years .


In two years, My "Scientific Atlanta" (on the outside label) CableCards have been updated (flashed) three times. The first one changed the CableCard screen menus to say "Cisco" instead. My last flash has a "Build Time: Jun 19 2012" entry, which was deployed a bit over two months ago. Nobody at Cox Communications can/will tell me what this update was for. One tech that came out to check my signal said it was one of many things they were trying to do to fix their defective whole home DVR systems, built by Cisco, which were defective when they got them in, and there's too many deployed to recall them. So, now the whole Cox enterprise is trying to make them work.

I don't believe everything I hear. But, that would explain why nobody with Cox wants to talk about it. Given how new this update build is, and that my CableCards are the same hardware build you'd get it you ordered a new, or replacement from them, right now, one would think that the "fix" is in that CableCard update, for the audio drop-outs. Well, it isn't fixed for me...

2007? Yeah, that's pretty old. Maybe you need to trade-in you CableCards? If they are running a build that old, perhaps they don't support the current updates... It's hard to say, since things vary a lot between cable providers. I would almost expect that the builds here are custom tweaked for their network, and what they can and can't do with it.

I'm only posting this in this thread, because if your cablecard needs an update, how can you blame anything on the TiVo, when it comes to the CORE DVR functions, less the menus and all else?...


----------



## JoeKustra

Perhaps this will help:
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps8672/index.html


----------



## nooneuknow

JoeKustra said:


> Perhaps this will help:
> http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps8672/index.html


That certainly explains why TiVo users can no longer pair those cards on one drive, clone to another and keep their pairing.

It also explains why removal of, swapping around of the cards, or swapping in a cloned drive causes me to lose access to all recordings that are part of Cox's "Advanced TV" service, which is basically everything that isn't a channel under 100.

Thanks for that link. Somehow I didn't find my way there in my own digging around...

TiVo really needs to put up their own version of this information. Otherwise, when a cableco starts using this protection in their market(s), the messages the TiVo gives, and the explanation for the error from TiVo make it seem like a TiVo issue. I've still got a lot of reading to do. Thanks again!


----------



## UCLABB

tomhorsley said:


> Actually electrical tape blends in better with the black bezel on my vizio TV that has an illuminated vizio logo bright enough to read by that is always turned on . I thought about taking it apart and drilling out the LEDs, but the black electrical tape worked OK.


Yeah, the Vizios are lame. I actually saw a procedure on how to open the case and remove the power wire from the led. Elegant solve, but a snip of electrical tape is just fine for me.


----------



## wmcbrine

Dunno about your model, but my Vizio has an option in the menus to change when the logo is lit. I set it to only come on at startup and shutdown.


----------



## crxssi

nooneuknow said:


> Privacy, perhaps?


Agreed- privacy is the only valid reason I can fathom. In my case, nobody else ever uses my TiVo so it truly is a useless feature for me.


----------



## crxssi

nooneuknow said:


> Same here. It started out faster, but worked its way to being slower in less than 1/2 day. Even on a reboot, I can get the old speed back, but it slows down quite quickly.


This is standard behavior and nothing new. Every time there is an update people yell "faster!" and then quickly correct themselves soon after.


----------



## MHunter1

After this update, all of my programs with a duration of 3 hours now have 30-minute tickmarks. Previously the tickmarks were spaced every 15 minutes. This is very user-unfriendly if it was an intended change after 13 years. 3-hour programs are common on CNBC, CSPAN, and PBS.


----------



## nooneuknow

crxssi said:


> This is standard behavior and nothing new. Every time there is an update people yell "faster!" and then quickly correct themselves soon after.


What I meant by slower, is slower than before the update. I'm well aware that things seem faster after an update. It's just that to get the same speed as before the update, the unit can't be running for more than 1/2 day after a reboot, then it slows down to slower than before the update after two months, or even more, without any reboot.

I was (trying to) make the same point you are, because of the flood of people shouting "It's faster!", when in reality, given a little up time, it's actually SLOWER. I'd thought about editing my post, to emphasize more like I just did, but nobody had said anything, until now, about that post.


----------



## UCLABB

wmcbrine said:


> Dunno about your model, but my Vizio has an option in the menus to change when the logo is lit. I set it to only come on at startup and shutdown.


Probably a newer model after everyone *****ed.


----------



## lpwcomp

crxssi said:


> Agreed- privacy is the only valid reason I can fathom. In my case, nobody else ever uses my TiVo so it truly is a useless feature for me.


There is some anecdotal evidence, and personal experience supports it to some degree, that a full hard drive _*might*_ be problematic, particularly if it is a DIY expansion.

However, as I stated elsewhere, for a Premiere I just use kmttg to empty out the folder for the recently decea.., uh, deleted.


----------



## CoxInPHX

tomhorsley said:


> I finally got around to looking through the cable card menus, and it is indeed a Scientific Atlanta cable card which says it is running an OS from June 2007, so it does seem like a firmware update might be out there after seven years .





nooneuknow said:


> In two years, My "Scientific Atlanta" (on the outside label) CableCards have been updated (flashed) three times. The first one changed the CableCard screen menus to say "Cisco" instead. My last flash has a "Build Time: Jun 19 2012" entry, which was deployed a bit over two months ago. Nobody at Cox Communications can/will tell me what this update was for. One tech that came out to check my signal said it was one of many things they were trying to do to fix their defective whole home DVR systems, built by Cisco, which were defective when they got them in, and there's too many deployed to recall them. So, now the whole Cox enterprise is trying to make them work.
> 
> I don't believe everything I hear. But, that would explain why nobody with Cox wants to talk about it. Given how new this update build is, and that my CableCards are the same hardware build you'd get it you ordered a new, or replacement from them, right now, one would think that the "fix" is in that CableCard update, for the audio drop-outs. Well, it isn't fixed for me...
> 
> 2007? Yeah, that's pretty old. Maybe you need to trade-in you CableCards? If they are running a build that old, perhaps they don't support the current updates... It's hard to say, since things vary a lot between cable providers. I would almost expect that the builds here are custom tweaked for their network, and what they can and can't do with it.
> 
> I'm only posting this in this thread, because if your cablecard needs an update, how can you blame anything on the TiVo, when it comes to the CORE DVR functions, less the menus and all else?...


I can't speak for other Cable Cos, but Cox runs the same OS on all SA/Cisco CableCARDS (even leased devices) regardless of age of the card, so replacing with a newer card will not get you a more recent OS version. Cox just recently updated to OS Ver: PKEY1.5.3_F.p.0601, Build Time: Jun 19 2012
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=503101

See the following Release Notes for SA/Cisco CableCARD OS version changes/fixes:

Here is the Release Bulletin for 1.5.3.0601
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/vid...sories/Release_Bulletin_M-CARD_1.5.3.0601.pdf

and here is the Release Bulletin for 1.5.2.3001
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/vid...ies/Release_Bulletin_M-CARD_OS_1.5.2.3001.pdf


----------



## ahwman

The two fixes I was hoping for in this update were suggestions not populating when a tuning adapter is attached and the audio going in and out of phase where it will go from stereo to mono especially when RW or FF. Sadly neither issue has been corrected in this update. As a new TiVo customer and a $1,700 initial investment, I was hoping for more...


----------



## nooneuknow

CoxInPHX said:


> I can't speak for other Cable Cos, but Cox runs the same OS on all SA/Cisco CableCARDS (even leased devices) regardless of age of the card, so replacing with a newer card will not get you a more recent OS version. Cox just recently updated to OS Ver: PKEY1.5.3_F.p.0601, Build Time: Jun 19 2012
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=503101
> 
> See the following Release Notes for SA/Cisco CableCARD OS version changes/fixes:
> 
> Here is the Release Bulletin for 1.5.3.0601
> http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/vid...sories/Release_Bulletin_M-CARD_1.5.3.0601.pdf
> 
> and here is the Release Bulletin for 1.5.2.3001
> http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/vid...ies/Release_Bulletin_M-CARD_OS_1.5.2.3001.pdf


On the older cards I had with an older "HW" version on the outside of the card, the Release and Build data were the same, but, the "Bldr" ver stayed at 123, while the newer "HW 1.2 F" cards went up to "Bldr: 124".

I don't have the old cards around anymore to pull data from. The thing that confuses me is why now they gave me a mix of model PKM800 & PKM802 cards. They used to ONLY use 802's in their own boxes, while anything else got PKM800 ONLY. It's easy to spot the difference without even looking at the backside, as one card has a green sticker covering the front, while the other is white. I've asked and asked, but Cox either is dumb, everybody I've talked to is dumb, or they're all just playing dumb, when it comes to the question of "Shouldn't I have consistency in what model is going in consistent equipment, and/or what's the difference, if any?".

So, thanks for the links. I'm learning more as I go from the earlier link provided. I still don't know how I didn't find that info on my own. I did dig around searching for it, and then I get a direct link into it here.

I actually had one of Cox's own units here for diagnostic purposes, and when that last update went out, it got the flash update, but to the best of my recollection, I recall wondering why their unit got flashed with a version different from the cards in my TiVos. I got sick of paying for that crap box, and gave it back, so I can't pull the data from it now, either.

I know you're familiar with how Cox in Las Vegas was a maverick franchise called "Cox Las Vegas", in an attempt to avoid regulations and do as they pleased, regardless of what the Cox conglomerate was doing. I thought they were bad then. Now, they're back in the fold, or mostly there, but things are FAR WORSE, as opposed to getting better. Nobody knows anything about anything, and I wind up talking to people in OHIO, when I call, and if the answer isn't "they don't know", it's usually so far out there I'll throw out a few questions that I KNOW the answers to, only to get answers that don't apply here at all. I have to play "Cox roulette" until I get a call center in Arizona, or local (rare), where they at least have a clue as to the cable network, and what applies and what doesn't. It's not like they came around and put in a whole new network to match the other cox markets, so it sucks to be a TiVo/Cox user in Las Vegas.

There I go, all off topic again. Sorry. I'll get cracking on those links and try to keep this thread about TiVo's software release.


----------



## MeInDallas

ahwman said:


> The two fixes I was hoping for in this update were suggestions not populating when a tuning adapter is attached and the audio going in and out of phase where it will go from stereo to mono especially when RW or FF. Sadly neither issue has been corrected in this update. As a new TiVo customer and a $1,700 initial investment, I was hoping for more...


Dont give up hope yet. Sometimes if they figure out a fix for something, they will release a small update and send out. I know they have a few times in the past that I can remember. They are monitoring my boxes at least because they seem to be calling home every 6 hours, and they didnt start doing that until I sent my info to someone in engineering. So dont give up hope yet.


----------



## ahwman

MeInDallas said:


> Dont give up hope yet. Sometimes if they figure out a fix for something, they will release a small update and send out. I know they have a few times in the past that I can remember. They are monitoring my boxes at least because they seem to be calling home every 6 hours, and they didnt start doing that until I sent my info to someone in engineering. So dont give up hope yet.


Thank you for the confidence as it does renew my hope...


----------



## nooneuknow

Anybody know/remember the three digit+clear button sequences that adds additional debugging information to the TiVo logs, that you're supposed to use immediately after a problem?

It was something like 777-clear and/or 911-clear (digits followed by hitting clear quick enough to NOT have the TiVo actually try to tune to the channel digits). I think your Opt In/Neutral/Out status must be set to Opt-In, for it to work, which mine is. If those sequences still work, or there are new ones, I may as well start using them, so when my TiVos call the mother ship, and upload the logs, they can see EXACTLY where they need to be looking.

Of course, even if these do still work, it still requires a call to a TiVo rep and a request for them to manually review your specific logs (that's why the opt-in status is required). I thought if anybody knows and shares this here, it could actually help them debug a few things. If I recall correctly, if you're forced to do a power-cord pull reboot, or your machine just reboots itself, you would use 911-clear, as soon as it comes up far enough to let you do so, and 777-clear just puts a marker in the log with more than the usual amount of debugging data, which you would use for other issues.

I'm not sure if this is something TiVo wants everybody to know about, or if it even works with/without them wanting it, or if it requires your account, or TSNs, to be flagged in able to use it.

EDIT: Based on what somebody else was posting as I wrote this, I think it also requires two forced connections to the TiVo service after entering these sequences and/or your box being set by TiVo, remotely, to call in more frequently to collect the additional data.

EDIT 2: 911-CLEAR IS FOR CRITICAL, NON-A/V ISSUES; 777-CLEAR IS FOR A/V ISSUES; Repeat each incident code, per incident, & as quickly as possible; Two manual connections to TiVo service to upload the extra debugging data.


----------



## mattack

nooneuknow said:


> So, my rating of the update at this point is: 1 step forward and 10 or more steps back.


I definitely vote it as MANY steps forward and 0 steps back.. since it doesn't delete RD (and my shows) when it's in the 60s of percent full range..

Still slow UI like I said, but it was like that before.


----------



## mattack

Bierboy said:


> I refuse to go back to SD menus, however, so I'll live with. Doesn't mean I'm happy with it...


I still keep telling myself I'm going to go back to SD menus.. but really, the one thing I really like about the HD UI is the percentage full meter, even though it was broken (for me) between the 2nd update ago and this latest update...

Call it OCD or whatever you want, but I want to know how full it is so I can make sure it can record the things I want to record when I'm gone.. (and not have EVERYTHING as KUID, because doing that quickly causes insanity because it *can't* know you will really watch something within a day).

Yes, I consider a DVR a "mostly automated" recorder. Though with 4 tuners now, I check up on it _less_ than I used to, most of the time.


----------



## MeInDallas

nooneuknow said:


> Anybody know/remember the three digit+clear button sequences that adds additional debugging information to the TiVo logs, that you're supposed to use immediately after a problem?
> 
> It was something like 777-clear and/or 999-clear (non-existent channel digits followed by hitting clear quick enough to NOT have the TiVo actually try to tune to the channel digits). I think your Opt In/Neutral/Out status must be set to Opt-In, for it to work, which mine is. If those sequences still work, or there are new ones, I may as well start using them, so when my TiVos call the mother ship, and upload the logs, they can see EXACTLY where they need to be looking.
> 
> Of course, even if these do still work, it still requires a call to a TiVo rep and a request for them to manually review your specific logs (that's why the opt-in status is required). I thought if anybody knows and shares this here, it could actually help them debug a few things. If I recall correctly, if you're forced to do a power-cord pull reboot, or your machine just reboots itself, you would use 999-clear, as soon as it comes up far enough to let you do so, and 777-clear just puts a marker in the log with more than the usual amount of debugging data, which you would use for other issues.
> 
> I'm not sure if this is something TiVo wants everybody to know about, or if it even works with/without them wanting it, or if it requires your account, or TSNs, to be flagged in able to use it.
> 
> EDIT: Based on what somebody else was posting as I wrote this, I think it also requires two forced connections to the TiVo service after entering these sequences and/or your box being set by TiVo, remotely, to call in more frequently to collect the additional data.


777-clear is for A/V issues
911-clear is for all other issues

Then 2 connects afterwards.


----------



## nooneuknow

mattack said:


> I definitely vote it as MANY steps forward and 0 steps back.. since it doesn't delete RD (and my shows) when it's in the 60s of percent full range..
> 
> Still slow UI like I said, but it was like that before.


Could you elaborate further, please?

Model of TiVo, date of manufacture, total drive capacity (stock or upgraded?), region, cable provider, brand of CableCard, and more than ONE thing fixed, would be nice...

From what I've been reading, the RD/~60% issue only affects the four-tuner models. I'd be fuming mad if I EVER had the issue you describe, but I've yet to see anybody with a two-tuner model report anything about that issue.

I've seen the insides of the four-tuner models, and even though they are considered the Series 4 platform, just as are the two-tuner models, they DO have significant hardware differences, which could account for lopsided reporting of problems fixed, introduced, and unchanged.


----------



## nooneuknow

MeInDallas said:


> 777-clear is for A/V issues
> 911-clear is for all other issues
> 
> Then 2 connects afterwards.


Thank You. Something I think came back to me now is that the 911-clear is for "show-stopping" (critical events), and that it's imperative you use the codes as quickly as possible when the events happen, and repeat them every time the event happens. Then, as you said, 2 manual service connections.


----------



## CoxInPHX

nooneuknow said:


> Thank You. Something I think came back to me now is that the 911-clear is for "show-stopping" (critical events), and that it's imperative you use the codes as quickly as possible when the events happen, and repeat them every time the event happens. Then, as you said, 2 manual service connections.


The logs fill-up rather quickly and get overwritten, especially after a Fatal Error which results in a reboot. Forcing a Network connection also fills-up the logs, so you need to do this procedure immediately when it happens.

You can inspect the Logs using Clear-Clear-Enter-Enter-0 from the System Information menu.

Scroll Right to view the different logs.


----------



## nooneuknow

CoxInPHX said:


> The logs fill-up rather quickly and get overwritten, especially after a Fatal Error which results in a reboot. Forcing a Network connection also fills-up the logs, so you need to do this procedure immediately when it happens.
> 
> You can inspect the Logs using Clear-Clear-Enter-Enter-0 from the System Information menu.
> 
> Scroll Right to view the different logs.


My head just exploded after viewing just a portion of all that.  I'll be back when I finish growing a new one. Maybe I'll stick with cablecard specs next time, and save all the database errors for another lifetime...

No wonder they keep that backdoor cleverly hidden. 

Still, it beats having to use a raw disk editor to find and view breadcrumbs, like I'm accustomed to...

One thing, though, the raw disk editor way revealed a lot of file system data, inodes, tables, and errors related to them. I didn't find the same type of entries with the backdoor (but I didn't spend a day going through everything there, yet, just skimmed, for now). Does it read the data out differently, or are the logs I was viewing with the disk editor not viewable from there?  I know only enough about Linux-type systems to clone from the command line, view partition tables, etc.


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> There is some anecdotal evidence, and personal experience supports it to some degree, that a full hard drive _*might*_ be problematic, particularly if it is a DIY expansion.
> 
> However, as I stated elsewhere, for a Premiere I just use kmttg to empty out the folder for the recently decea.., uh, deleted.


Thanks for being the one to bring that first part up. I am aware of reports that say allowing the drive to reach 100% capacity, if you factor in the programs in the RD folder, have caused problems for DIY upgrade expansions. I just assumed there'd be a pile of people saying it's a bunch of BS. So, now I'll admit, I err on the side of caution, and make sure the drive never has to write to the very end of it's capacity, by permanently deleting things, with a teeny bit of OCD involved, as well as keeping my viewing history more private (primary reason), while still allowing other people or TiVos to transfer or stream what I chose to leave available.


----------



## tomhorsley

CoxInPHX said:


> I can't speak for other Cable Cos, but Cox runs the same OS on all SA/Cisco CableCARDS (even leased devices) regardless of age of the card, so replacing with a newer card will not get you a more recent OS version. Cox just recently updated to OS Ver: PKEY1.5.3_F.p.0601, Build Time: Jun 19 2012
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=503101


Yea, judging from the reply I got when I asked about this in the comcast forums, the infrastructure run by the cable company needs to be updated before it can talk to new versions of firmware, so the firmware update isn't planned till June/July at the moment in Florida (till the schedule slips, of course .


----------



## nooneuknow

CoxInPHX said:


> The logs fill-up rather quickly and get overwritten, especially after a Fatal Error which results in a reboot. Forcing a Network connection also fills-up the logs, so you need to do this procedure immediately when it happens.
> 
> You can inspect the Logs using Clear-Clear-Enter-Enter-0 from the System Information menu.
> 
> Scroll Right to view the different logs.


I suppose for those who don't know, I should specify that the 911-clear and 777-clear sequences don't work within menus, only in viewing mode.

The 911-clear just marks a spot in the log, so the previous log entries can be examined, while the 777-clear adds additional logging.

I'm curious about the "QE" tests, but not knowing what they do, how long they take to run, and not knowing if I risk losing anything by using them, I'm resisting the temptation to run them.


----------



## MeInDallas

nooneuknow said:


> I suppose for those who don't know, I should specify that the 911-clear and 777-clear sequences don't work within menus, only in viewing mode.
> 
> The 911-clear just marks a spot in the log, so the previous log entries can be examined, while the 777-clear adds additional logging.
> 
> I'm curious about the "QE" tests, but not knowing what they do, how long they take to run, and not knowing if I risk losing anything by using them, I'm resisting the temptation to run them.


I tried those one time to see what they did a few months ago, and all they did was reboot the Tivo . . . that I could see. It just rebooted and then back to Tivo central.


----------



## nooneuknow

MeInDallas said:


> I tried those one time to see what they did a few months ago, and all they did was reboot the Tivo . . . that I could see. It just rebooted and then back to Tivo central.


Just a guess, but they probably set it to run some tests at boot (which would explain why they require a reboot), that wouldn't give any visual indication they were run, or running. The tests could complete very quickly if nothing was detected.

Another guess would be that while it appears nothing happens, the TiVo boots into an enhanced logging state (or some sort of debugging state).

Have you tried them and checked the logs to see if there's any indication of either possibility?

I'll check for myself on a unit that I can afford to lose everything on, very soon, and report back if I find anything.


----------



## mattack

nooneuknow said:


> Could you elaborate further, please?
> 
> Model of TiVo, date of manufacture, total drive capacity (stock or upgraded?), region, cable provider, brand of CableCard, and more than ONE thing fixed, would be nice...
> 
> From what I've been reading, the RD/~60% issue only affects the four-tuner models. I'd be fuming mad if I EVER had the issue you describe, but I've yet to see anybody with a two-tuner model report anything about that issue.
> 
> I've seen the insides of the four-tuner models, and even though they are considered the Series 4 platform, just as are the two-tuner models, they DO have significant hardware differences, which could account for lopsided reporting of problems fixed, introduced, and unchanged.


Premiere 4, stock drive.. the rest of the info is irrelevant AFAIK.

The Tivo was nuking most of RD almost every day, and I think a few times I lost a few programs, even though it was supposedly in the 60% range full. This has been discussed by a lot of other people.

I *suspect* it's related to the same issue that made EVERY show say it was at least 2.05 GB when connected from the outside (e.g. kmttg), but really was only the true size of the program.


----------



## nooneuknow

mattack said:


> Premiere 4, stock drive.. the rest of the info is irrelevant AFAIK.


Honestly, it's quite relevant. I understand if you don't wish to disclose your exact location, for privacy reasons, & it's not like I asked for your TSN.

In order for me to take your opinion of the update seriously, and for me to see if there's any way possible that there's a link between the 4 tuner model behaving differently from a 2 tuner model, or if there's no link, I'm asking the same information that others openly disclose, as well as going by posts by other people who say "It sure would help to know...", and/or "How can you compare, or be sure if..." and/or "How can anybody possibly say anything definitive without knowing and/or help if...", etc...

I set up an experiment with two identical Premiere 2-tuner models, where each is recording two channels, manually, for 23hrs, 59min every day. One is behaving like you describe your issue before the update, AFTER the update (only keeping ~60% before deleting), while the other is always at 100%. What's different? One has a model PKM800 CableCard, the other has a PKM802 CableCard (and Cox claims both work the same). The TiVos were also manufactured nearly a year apart.

Does it make a bit more sense, now, why I would ask for some specifics? Specifics are extremely important in troubleshooting, and creating accurate results to share, when somebody, like me, takes two units out of service, just to try and compare results, and share them. Then, if enough specifics are provided, and a fix is found, it can be shared with the community, and TiVo. If no fix is found, then this data definitely needs to be shared with all parties that can do something about it.

Before you ask, they both have identical DVR_DUDE imaged hard drives, 2TB, and both drives test fine, repeatedly.


----------



## chiguy50

fwiw, I signed up both my Premiere and Premiere Elite for the priority update on May 16, and neither one has received the update yet.

I choose to take this as a "positive" sign that TiVo recognizes the update needs more work.


----------



## mowens511

My Tivo still hasn't upgraded to the new 20.3.1 software. Does anyone know why this would be? I am new to Tivo and am still learning how things work.


----------



## DogsOfWarandPeac

chiguy50 said:


> fwiw, I signed up both my Premiere and Premiere Elite for the priority update on May 16, and neither one has received the update yet.
> 
> I choose to take this as a "positive" sign that TiVo recognizes the update needs more work.


I hope so. I did get the update and reported bugs I found directly to TiVo so that they can make an informed decision about the rest of the roll out and to fix the bugs.


----------



## DogsOfWarandPeac

mowens511 said:


> My Tivo still hasn't upgraded to the new 20.3.1 software. Does anyone know why this would be? I am new to Tivo and am still learning how things work.


That's normal. You get the update when you get it. They do a staggered roll out and your unit just isn't first in line.


----------



## Bierboy

And you'll get the same update everyone else does...bugs and all...


----------



## JoeKustra

Now, now. You know there will be an update. Then an update to the update. Then.....


----------



## jhilla

New Problem, Audio started to bleed from DisneyJr while loading HuluPlus I still had audio from Live TV. I had never encountered this before, is this a beta bug or a TiVo echo/hiccup/burb?


----------



## lpwcomp

There is at least one problem which _*may*_ have been fixed by this update - not being able to permanently delete some recordings w/o rebooting the TiVo. Of course, there is no way to verify this. Just because I haven't seen the problem since the update doesn't mean it isn't still there.


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> There is at least one problem which _*may*_ have been fixed by this update - not being able to permanently delete some recordings w/o rebooting the TiVo. Of course, there is no way to verify this. Just because I haven't seen the problem since the update doesn't mean it isn't still there.


It still exists for me. I always get around it by hitting LiveTv, switching the active (viewing) Tuner, and then I can permanently delete the program.

Some report that it's because the program recorded from the active channel, and do the same dance. I've had to do it regardless, even with programs transferred between TiVos.

Then there are always some who have to comment "Why do you even feel the need, or what reason do you have, to do that?". The only common ground I can find with those who say that is "For privacy, as this is a multi-TiVo, multi user home, where we share things, and the last update before this one made it possible to view & undelete from a remote TiVo's Recently Deleted folder, & then transfer."

I've other reasons, but they'll just call them OCD.


----------



## nooneuknow

DogsOfWarandPeac said:


> I hope so. I did get the update and reported bugs I found directly to TiVo so that they can make an informed decision about the rest of the roll out and to fix the bugs.


I PRAY so, even though I'm agnostic. Maybe we need to start our own church, since everybody (especially CableCos), but TiVo themselves (as a company), seem to think TiVo users are merely a fringe/cult group, and make us feel powerless. We could worship the TiVo man, whom we already are at the mercy of, and hope he shoots lightning bolts at naysayers, kinda like on the startup video...


----------



## CoxInPHX

Losing all Channels on my Elite, (Black-No Audio) has happened to me twice now since receiving the latest update, 20.3.1

EDIT: I also experience one other occurrence of a Frozen tuner that resulted in losing all channels after attempting to change channels.

All SD Menu screens also have a Black background

TiVo message is "Problem with the signal on this channel. Trying again. (V53).

I never had this issue before, or rarely ever noticed it.

I also have had a few spontaneous reboots, that I never used to experience.


----------



## lessd

CoxInPHX said:


> Losing all Channels on my Elite, (Black-No Audio) has happened to me twice now since receiving the latest update, 20.3.1
> 
> EDIT: I also experience one other occurrence of a Frozen tuner that resulted in losing all channels after attempting to change channels.
> 
> All SD Menu screens also have a Black background
> 
> TiVo message is "Problem with the signal on this channel. Trying again. (V53).
> 
> I never had this issue before, or rarely ever noticed it.
> 
> I also have had a few spontaneous reboots, that I never used to experience.


Just as a point of reference, I have 3 TP-4 (750500) all with the new software (20.3.1) and I am not getting any problems, although my Mini did not get the update to 20.3.1.


----------



## aaronwt

My GF and I have been catching up on a bunch of shows yesterday and today that I had transferred to my OTA only Premiere that I brought to her house. So far I've not run into any issues playing back the shows recorded between January and May this year.


----------



## ufo4sale

Is there a list on what they updated?


----------



## wmcbrine

ufo4sale said:


> Is there a list on what they updated?


Never. They want you to guess.


----------



## moose53

I've got a premier. Every day or two since the update, I've been getting channel signal strengths of 54 on every single channel ... ones that I receive and ones that I don't receive ... (and a lot of pixelization on the channels that I do receive). The only thing that seems to stop it is to restart the Tivo.

Anyone else having this problem??

Thanks.


----------



## JoeKustra

moose53 said:


> I've got a premier. Every day or two since the update, I've been getting channel signal strengths of 54 on every single channel ... ones that I receive and ones that I don't receive ... (and a lot of pixelization on the channels that I do receive). The only thing that seems to stop it is to restart the Tivo.
> 
> Anyone else having this problem??
> 
> Thanks.


It's a known issue that the signal strength display is not funtioning properly. You haven't said how it worked before the update and if you are cable or OTA.


----------



## CharlesH

wmcbrine said:


> Never. They want you to guess.


TiVo apparently has a policy to not release a change log. The only thing they announce is new features. This has been a gripe from users essentially for forever.


----------



## lpwcomp

CharlesH said:


> TiVo apparently has a policy to not release a change log. The only thing they announce is new features. This has been a gripe from users essentially for forever.


Actually, when the 20.2.2 update was released in October of 2012, we got this post from TiVoMargret.


----------



## compnurd

lpwcomp said:


> Actually, when the 20.2.2 update was released in October of 2012, we got this post from TiVoMargret.


The last couple we did get some notes.. She didnt even really acknowledge this update on twitter


----------



## scandia101

JoeKustra said:


> 2. And of course "another bug" - Really TiVo do they not even test this stuff. New Bug: When going into "signal meter" it now freezes after selecting a couple of channels and does not report real results - thus ALL channels now report the same thing for signal strength. Once the signal strength meter is frozen; it becomes frozen in DVR Diagnostics too. The only way I know to fix it, is to unplug reboot."


I came across this the other day. I have a couple of channels that have signal strengths that are low, but ok for a while then they drop too low and I have to adjust the antenna. I'm having issues now and I can't fix them w/o a working signal strength meter.


----------



## lpwcomp

compnurd said:


> The last couple we did get some notes.. She didnt even really acknowledge this update on twitter


Yeah. She hasn't posted anything here in a couple of months. One wonders if she got inundated with notes that took more time to deal with than it was worth.


----------



## moyekj

I don't think there's anything substantial in this update so nothing worth posting about. It's not like we got dynamic tuners for the Mini or something along those lines.


----------



## mrsean

Please ignore this post.


----------



## CoxInPHX

I would like to update the first post in this thread, so please list the following observations you have regarding the 20.3.1 SW Update.

Please use brief, succinct statements, and links to threads or posts of observations and/or previous bugs


New Functionality - Improvements
MLBtv
Initiating a recording from the guide seems more fluid. No "please wait" box pops up and the guide seems to refresh in a cleaner manner. - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9664109#post9664109

Bugs - Fixed
Fixed - Minimum File Size Bug (of 2.05GB/.5Hr-SD / 4.1GB/.5Hr-HD) - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=500526

Bugs - Newly Introduced
The "One Moment" screen launches in HD then quickly changes resolution to blurry.
Info Bar now only shows 3 lines of text for the program description, then truncates the remaining. Four lines of text may/will initially display but quickly shortens to 3 lines. - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9665852#post9665852
Deleting items from the RDF now takes 5 seconds for the list to repopulate, before the next item can be deleted.
Signal Meter appears not to be accurate and will report the same Signal Level for all channels. (needs further research) http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9678493#post9678493

Changes but not necessarily Bugs
MBT (MotherBoard Temp) no longer has a temperature degree symbol ° and no longer has the (Normal) status
Network/Phone text changed to just Network on 2 tuner Premieres
Font size increase in Info Bar for Other Tuner(s) info


----------



## compnurd

nooneuknow said:


> I'd say I mostly agree with you, but realty can't, since the grammar of your post makes it VERY hard to be sure EXACTLY what you are saying. I'll guess English isn't your first/native language, or you didn't bother to proof-read before posting, only a spell-check, at most.
> 
> I'm not trying to be an ass towards you, or humiliate you, like some people on these forums love to do for fun. I'm suggesting you edit your post and do your best to correct the grammar issues. Otherwise, for me to agree or disagree, would be based on GUESSING what I think you are saying.


Really? With the exception of the first sentence.. There is nothing wrong with his post..


----------



## Aero 1

CoxInPHX said:


> I would like to update the first post in this thread, so please list the following observations you have regarding the 20.3.1 SW Update.
> 
> Please use brief, succinct statements, and links to threads or posts of observations and/or previous bugs
> 
> 
> New Functionality - Improvements
> MLBtv
> Initiating a recording from the guide seems more fluid. No "please wait" box pops up and the guide seems to refresh in a cleaner manner. - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9664109#post9664109
> 
> Bugs - Fixed
> Fixed - Minimum File Size Bug (of 2.05GB/.5Hr-SD / 4.1GB/.5Hr-HD) - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=500526
> 
> Bugs - Newly Introduced
> The "One Moment" screen launches in HD then quickly changes resolution to blurry.
> Info Bar now only shows 3 lines of text for the program description, then truncates the remaining. Four lines of text may/will initially display but quickly shortens to 3 lines. - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9665852#post9665852
> Deleting items from the RDF now takes 5 seconds for the list to repopulate, before the next item can be deleted.
> 
> Changes but not necessarily Bugs
> MBT (MotherBoard Temp) no longer has a temperature degree symbol ° and no longer has the (Normal) status
> Network/Phone text changed to just Network on 2 tuner Premieres
> Font size increase in Info Bar for Other Tuner(s) info


add the audio dropout issue when using trick play on live TV by pressing FF and then Scan to get to the end. audio dissapears and must skip back or enter a menu to bring it back up. this seems to only happen when the tivo is set to Dolby.


----------



## nooneuknow

compnurd said:


> Really? With the exception of the first sentence.. There is nothing wrong with his post..


I retracted my post, regarding the other post. Happy now? I'd like to give CoxInPHX, who started this thread, and just posted an update looking to re-focus it, a fighting chance of doing so, and keeping the thread on-topic.


----------



## JoeKustra

If gramer and punchtuation were a forum requirement this would be a very quit place......

Sory, my . repeats to..


----------



## aaronwt

mrsean said:


> To many of you to respond to but I will say this. If you want to rationalize way all the failings of the Tivo then be my guest. The facts as I laid out before don't lie. Premiere has never stood up to the product it was initially marketed as. To me the positives pretty much equal the negatives and that is why I remain somewhat happy with my Premiere.
> 
> The reason I felt compelled contribute to this thread is that just like the OP, I too have had arrived home hoping to catch "can't miss" episodes my favorite shows only to find out that all my recording were blank. I certainly understand his (and others) frustration with Tivo and why he would choose to vent them here. Stating that you haven't experienced any issues and that you enjoy your Tivo in this thread is fine, but some of you have been darn right nasty to the OP just to make yourself feel better.
> 
> I am curious about the rumors that Tivo is planning release new DVRs later this year. This means they are not really focusing on the Premiere anymore. The latest update has been the worst release ever for it. Do any of you think that us current Premiere owners will receive a significant discount on a series 5 after paying top dollar to be treated like Windows 8 beta testers for the past 3 years?................ I didn't think so.


When the Premiere launched they gave us S3 owners a nice discount. Lifetime service was only $200. So total cost of the low end Premiere was around $500 at launch with the deal. With other discounts like Fat Wallet I paid around $470 or $480 with the lifetime service and a 3 year warranty.


----------



## CoxInPHX

Aero 1 said:


> add the audio dropout issue when using trick play on live TV by pressing FF and then Scan to get to the end. audio dissapears and must skip back or enter a menu to bring it back up. this seems to only happen when the tivo is set to Dolby.


Is this only when using HDMI or Optical-out to an AVR? I cannot seem to duplicate this issue.

My AVR is old, (Onkyo TX-SR600), w/ no HDMI inputs, so I use HDMI to HDTV and the TV's Optical-out to the AVR, all I ever see is PCM Audio even when set to Dolby.

I will test w/ the TiVo Optical-out directly to the AVR and see what happens. (EDIT: Could not duplicate with this set-up)


----------



## Bierboy

compnurd said:


> The last couple we did get some notes.. She didnt even really acknowledge this update on twitter


 I wouldn't acknowledge it either given how buggy it is...


----------



## Aero 1

CoxInPHX said:


> Is this only when using HDMI or Optical-out to an AVR? I cannot seem to duplicate this issue.
> 
> My AVR is old, (Onkyo TX-SR600), w/ no HDMI inputs, so I use HDMI to HDTV and the TV's Optical-out to the AVR, all I ever see is PCM Audio even when set to Dolby.
> 
> I will test w/ the TiVo Optical-out directly to the AVR and see what happens. (EDIT: Could not duplicate with this set-up)


I have it HDMI to an Onkyo TX-NR708. Others in this thread reported the same issue. i cant replicate it when i change the Tivo to PCM and it only seems to happen during the Live TV buffer, not during recordings or recorded shows.


----------



## shamilian

CoxInPHX said:


> Is this only when using HDMI or Optical-out to an AVR? I cannot seem to duplicate this issue.


I have had no audio playback when I first turn a TV on. If I pause/play or press live TV it starts working. I thought it may be hdmi glitches so I tried to turn the TV off/on that does not fix it. This has happened on at least two different Tivos/TVs.


----------



## JoeKustra

shamilian said:


> I have had no audio playback when I first turn a TV on. If I pause/play or press live TV it starts working. I thought it may be hdmi glitches so I tried to turn the TV off/on that does not fix it. This has happened on at least two different Tivos/TVs.


This may not be a factor, but when I turn my TV off, there is about five seconds where the audio stops. This happens everytime. I have HDMI connections and CEC disabled on all devices. The AVR is a Yamaha RX-V867 and TV is a Sony 32EX700.


----------



## dianebrat

lpwcomp said:


> Actually, when the 20.2.2 update was released in October of 2012, we got this post from TiVoMargret.





compnurd said:


> The last couple we did get some notes.. She didnt even really acknowledge this update on twitter


Yep, it's disappointing to see that the olive branch was only good for one release, it would have been nice to have that process continue.


----------



## mrsean

CoxInPhx, please add faster channel changing to the first post under "New Functionality - Improvements".


----------



## JSearfoss

shamilian said:


> I have had no audio playback when I first turn a TV on. If I pause/play or press live TV it starts working. I thought it may be hdmi glitches so I tried to turn the TV off/on that does not fix it. This has happened on at least two different Tivos/TVs.


I have this problem since the update. When I first turn on the TV I have no sound. Swap tuners and the sound returns. HDMI to a Yamaha RX-A2000 receiver. Sony TV. CEC disabled. Problem only started when I got this update.


----------



## compnurd

dianebrat said:


> Yep, it's disappointing to see that the olive branch was only good for one release, it would have been nice to have that process continue.


I am willing to bet she has not said anything since this was not a major release but a interim one...


----------



## mattack

Has anybody else been able to transfer *from paused point* to another Tivo after the update? Preferably, another Tivo HD? I know you *can't* in kmttg, but that's not supported software. I even reported this on Tivo's forums, but they seem to not be able to reproduce it.

IMHO, I appreciate the space fix more than the transfer from paused point issue, but obviously it still seems like a bug.

My post there is:
http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/fo...D=11101307&channelID=10&portalPageId=10432560


----------



## mattack

Oh, here's another bug.. and I am *NOT SURE AT ALL* if it is related to the new update. I think I busted a drive I was using for Tivo offline downloads.. so manually set up a few reruns of late night talk shows (musical performances from talk shows is one thing I "collect" though I admit I haven't converted many to audio files to listen to on my iphone like I intend to some eon).

1) view upcoming
2) go into each episode, tell it to record this episode
-> SOMETIMES it will seem to completely freeze when I hit enter on record this episode

I have run into this sporadically (and now I think even before the update). I remember noticing that the thumbs buttons were still active. I ran into my workaround. Hitting INFO shows me the info for the show, then I can go back and hit record this episode again.

But it seems to be entirely hung and the only way out SEEMS to be hitting info. (I could swear the 'reboot the UI' keypress I found googling used to work, but didn't in this situation.)


----------



## aaronwt

mattack said:


> Has anybody else been able to transfer *from paused point* to another Tivo after the update? Preferably, another Tivo HD? I know you *can't* in kmttg, but that's not supported software. I even reported this on Tivo's forums, but they seem to not be able to reproduce it.
> 
> IMHO, I appreciate the space fix more than the transfer from paused point issue, but obviously it still seems like a bug.
> 
> My post there is:
> http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/fo...D=11101307&channelID=10&portalPageId=10432560


I think I may have run into this over the weekend. I had transferred a couple dozen shows to my OTA only Premiere to take to my GFs house and the last show was Master Chef that I had previously started watching. When I went to view it while I was at my GFs house there was nothing there in the scrub bar. I wasn't sure what had happened since I had queued up so many shows and was in a rush to finish. I thought I may have unplugged the Premiere before it was finished transferring. That was the only one that had an issue but it was also the only one I had said to transfer from a paused point.

At least I got a chance to use my Slingbox. I just hooked up the HDMI out from my Netbook to the TV and watched the rest of Masterchef that way from the Sling viewer.


----------



## CoxInPHX

shamilian said:


> I have had no audio playback when I first turn a TV on. If I pause/play or press live TV it starts working. I thought it may be hdmi glitches so I tried to turn the TV off/on that does not fix it. This has happened on at least two different Tivos/TVs.


I cannot duplicate any Audio issues on any of my Premieres, all are connected directly to the HDTV via HDMI. But I will add a note.


----------



## CoxInPHX

Is the ability/function of pressing Play from the Guide and having the Premiere directly tune to the channel a NEW feature in 20.3.1? I cannot remember ever doing this before?


----------



## CoxInPHX

mrsean said:


> CoxInPhx, please add faster channel changing to the first post under "New Functionality - Improvements".


Is this channel surfing, or directly tuning using the channel numbers, or from the Guide?

I do not notice any difference, but I do not channel surf.


----------



## lpwcomp

mattack said:


> Has anybody else been able to transfer *from paused point* to another Tivo after the update? Preferably, another Tivo HD? I know you *can't* in kmttg, but that's not supported software. I even reported this on Tivo's forums, but they seem to not be able to reproduce it.
> 
> IMHO, I appreciate the space fix more than the transfer from paused point issue, but obviously it still seems like a bug.
> 
> My post there is:
> http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/fo...D=11101307&channelID=10&portalPageId=10432560


Tested Monday and posted results in the tivo.com thread. Also noted that the test proposed by the TiVo person is not possible.


----------



## CoxInPHX

mattack said:


> Has anybody else been able to transfer *from paused point* to another Tivo after the update? Preferably, another Tivo HD? I know you *can't* in kmttg, but that's not supported software. I even reported this on Tivo's forums, but they seem to not be able to reproduce it.
> 
> IMHO, I appreciate the space fix more than the transfer from paused point issue, but obviously it still seems like a bug.
> 
> My post there is:
> http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/fo...D=11101307&channelID=10&portalPageId=10432560


Premiere to Premiere transfer from a Paused point was successful. But I noticed that the progress bar reflected the first half of the program, from 0-30min and not 30-60min which is what actually transferred.

I seem to recall the progress bar would reflect what portion was actually transferred. Is this a change, or is my recollection wrong?


----------



## CoxInPHX

This issue seems to be fixed, can anyone else confirm.

If you record a program but are watching it in the buffer at the end of the recording time it dumps you to Live TV even when nothing else is recording. to finish you must go to My Shows and fast forward to where you left off.​
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9470638#post9470638


----------



## nooneuknow

CoxInPHX said:


> I cannot duplicate any Audio issues on any of my Premieres, all are connected directly to the HDTV via HDMI. But I will add a note.


Here's my details of equipment & issues:

HDMI, directly plugged into TV.

Four two-tuner (746320) TiVo Premieres.

Three DVR_DUDE imaged 2TB hard drives, WD20EURS models.
One JMFS expanded and supersized 2TB drive, WD20EADS model.

Two Scientific Atlanta (Cisco) PKM800 & two PKM802 CableCards, which received the most current firmware flash two months prior to TiVo software update. All cards have this info on the outside: 07/07/2011, HW 1.2 "F".

Cox Advanced TV with Movie, Information, and Variety Paks.

Cox Communications, Southern Nevada (formerly rogue franchise, known as "Cox Las Vegas").

Signal levels/quality routinely, analyzed, twice since update, by Cox. Very Strong signal, with very high SNR, but fluctuating with AGC stress (which they refuse to try and stabilize, since I'm at the end of the run on my street and the only customer on that tap).

I use strategic Cox-provided signal splitters, and terminators on unused ports, for attenuation, since attenuation by use of Cox-provided attenuators overly-attenuates low-frequency signals, and barely attenuates the high-frequency ones, making matters worse. I do have to still use a -3dB attenuator on each TiVo HD, or I have video issues with them (just including the last bit to be thorough).

Sony Bravia TVs, but can replicate with Samsung and Dynex (Best Buy brand) TVs that are otherwise being used as computer monitors.

Sometimes recordings have no sound at all, the Bravias report "unsupported audio signal format", and I can't transfer these recordings to TiVo Desktop to process or analyze them, but can transfer to other TiVos, and the sound is still absent. This problem has plagued me since the prior TiVo software update. I've found no solution for this, or workaround, including trying the analog outputs.

OFTEN the sound momentarily, and repeatedly, drops out on some channels, when there is a dialog-only segment, or no deafening background soundtrack, etc. I don't experience any issues with the video, or Closed Captioning when this happens. No workarounds found for using any digital outputs, it's less severe with analog outputs, but not by much. This has been going on for years. It got much worse when the afflicted channels got moved to frequencies below the frequency the cablecard operates at, which is 73750KHz. The worst channels are tuning at 69000KHz.

OFTEN after fast forwarding the sound is gone, but can get it back by simply using the Instant Replay (8-second skip-back) button on the TiVo remote. It's most prominent using HDMI, and has ONLY started since the new TiVo software update.

Also, since the update, one TiVo Premiere (no matter what drive or image is used) will only record to the ~60% disk usage point, and deletes all recently deleted items, as well as the oldest in the NPL. The other three Premiers have no problem getting to 100%. Others have reported, and are rejoicing, that this update FIXED this problem. It introduced it for me.

I don't use TiVo Suggestions to Auto-Record.

I am extremely annoyed with the 5-second refresh delay when doing ANYTHING in the RD folder, especially cleaning it out. It's about a 7-second delay when doing anything on a remote TiVo. I remembered, that before it got fast, with an older update, I would do a :down:, :up:, Pause, Pause to get the SD UI without having to go through the menus, gave it a try, and it's still fast that way. But, you can't access remote units RD folder in SD UI mode...

Feel free to ask anything you want, that may be relevant. I feel I've already tried every possible workaround, and changed every setting that could make a difference. See my prior posts for further information that I may have forgotten to include in this summary.

EDIT: I also have an issue where I lose my cablecard pairing and lose access to anything beyond basic cable, as well as previous recordings that were part of the Advanced TV service "pak channels" (the non-premium channels, like IFC, Sundance, LMN, & Epix - with Epix being the only one with the CCI protection enabled), if I clone a drive that is paired, and working normally, prior to the cloning. This may have nothing to do with this update. But, I'm trying to be thorough. I think it's a cablecard matter. I can't share my opinions on what the deal is without getting jumped on by a few people, unfortunately.


----------



## Aero 1

nooneuknow said:


> OFTEN after fast forwarding the sound is gone, but can get it back by simply using the Instant Replay (8-second skip-back) button on the TiVo remote. It's most prominent using HDMI, and has ONLY started since the new TiVo software update.


this is exactly my issue.

also, before this update, i was never able to browse other premiere's on my network with the new HD GUI, it was the old SD. I remember the update before this one, that there was trouble with it. now with this new update, only 1 premiere is able to browse the other in the HD GUI, but the other still browses the other one in SD. anyone experience this?


----------



## nooneuknow

Aero 1 said:


> this is exactly my issue.
> 
> also, before this update, i was never able to browse other premiere's on my network with the new HD GUI, it was the old SD. I remember the update before this one, that there was trouble with it. now with this new update, only 1 premiere is able to browse the other in the HD GUI, but the other still browses the other one in SD. anyone experience this?


Nope, only if I'm browsing a TiVo HD remotely, which is the way it has always been. I've no idea what would cause the issue you describe, unless I'm somehow misunderstanding it.

If that happened to me, I'd go to the TiVo website, and uncheck (disable) the options for allowing remote viewing and video downloading for EVERY unit on your account, give it enough time to happen (it takes up to a day sometimes), then go back and re-check (enable) those options. Two manual connections to the TiVo service, after each step tends to speed the process up, and a reboot may help as well (but give each unit time to index the guide cache first, before rebooting). This has fixed odd problems between TiVos for me, in the past.


----------



## lpwcomp

Aero 1 said:


> also, before this update, i was never able to browse other premiere's on my network with the new HD GUI, it was the old SD. I remember the update before this one, that there was trouble with it. now with this new update, only 1 premiere is able to browse the other in the HD GUI, but the other still browses the other one in SD. anyone experience this?


How does the remote Premiere appear in the local Premiere's "My Shows"? Does it have the correct name, is it identified as a "TiVo Premiere", and does it have the correct TSN?


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> How does the remote Premiere appear in the local Premiere's "My Shows"? Does it have the correct name, is it identified as a "TiVo Premiere", and does it have the correct TSN?


That's also a good suggestion. If the data is incorrect and/or missing for any units, call TiVo. They may have a database error on their end on the TiVo "brain" server.


----------



## Aero 1

lpwcomp said:


> How does the remote Premiere appear in the local Premiere's "My Shows"? Does it have the correct name, is it identified as a "TiVo Premiere", and does it have the correct TSN?


it appears with a pic of the premiere, its correct name and its correct TSN.


----------



## Aero 1

nooneuknow said:


> Nope, only if I'm browsing a TiVo HD remotely, which is the way it has always been. I've no idea what would cause the issue you describe, unless I'm somehow misunderstanding it.
> 
> If that happened to me, I'd go to the TiVo website, and uncheck (disable) the options for allowing remote viewing and video downloading for EVERY unit on your account, give it enough time to happen (it takes up to a day sometimes), then go back and re-check (enable) those options. Two manual connections to the TiVo service, after each step tends to speed the process up, and a reboot may help as well (but give each unit time to index the guide cache first, before rebooting). This has fixed odd problems between TiVos for me, in the past.


did all of that, did it months ago when i was part of the beta test for the previous update that introduced it. i brought up the issue during the beta, they said they found out it wasnt reliable, so they pulled it from the change log.

with this new update, my one tivo started browsing the other in HD and the otehr tivo stayed in SD when browsing the other.


----------



## nooneuknow

Aero 1 said:


> did all of that, did it months ago when i was part of the beta test for the previous update that introduced it. i brought up the issue during the beta, they said they found out it wasnt reliable, so they pulled it from the change log.
> 
> with this new update, my one tivo started browsing the other in HD and the otehr tivo stayed in SD when browsing the other.


Your NDA with TiVo prohibits you from EVER publicly disclosing, or discussing with 3rd parties, that you participated in any current or past B*** test. The penalties can be severe. 

It's like the first two rules of fight club. If you ever want to share like that, be hypothetical enough to cover your ass, or your best off not bringing it up.

EDIT: Try this - unplug all but one TiVo from the network, then click on it in the list, say you no longer have the TiVo when it prompts you. It should then disappear from the list. Then, reconnect it to the network, and it should re-detect. A service connection or reboot may be required.

If you've tried a boatload of things to try and fix it, you can help by stating everything you tried, so others will know not to recommend what you've already done. Other than that, still get in touch with TiVo. You are allowed to tell other TiVo employees, and any support staff about fight club, just don't do it in forums. Trust me, they can get really bent if you break the terms of your NDA. If you don't have a copy handy, they'll email you a copy, if you request them to.


----------



## Aero 1

nooneuknow said:


> Your NDA with TiVo prohibits you from EVER publicly disclosing, or discussing with 3rd parties, that you participated in any current or past B*** test. The penalties can be severe.
> 
> It's like the first two rules of fight club. If you ever want to share like that, be hypothetical enough to cover your ass, or your best off not bringing it up.
> 
> EDIT: Try this - unplug all but one TiVo from the network, then click on it in the list, say you no longer have the TiVo when it prompts you. It should then disappear from the list. Then, reconnect it to the network, and it should re-detect. A service connection or reboot may be required.
> 
> If you've tried a boatload of things to try and fix it, you can help be stating everything you tried, so others will know not to recommend what you've already done. Other than that, still get in touch with TiVo. You are allowed to tell other TiVo employees, and any support staff about fight club, just don't do it in forums. Trust me, they can get really bent if you break the terms of your NDA.


relax Alex Jones, ive had tivo's for 10 years, i know the rules of the game. i haven't divulged anything that was on that beta test, it was a last minute change log before the test was over and Tivo Margaret confirmed the issue publicly back then and she has been made aware from me about the issue. If they have a problem, then they can take their Tivo blanket, flashlight and scarf back. No need to send me the NDA, they make us memorize it and recite it over Skype to make sure we comply.

ive tried everything under the sun. reboots, clear and deletes, unplu, plug in, rain dances, rubbed my cat on it, nothing has worked. ive learned to live with it because i can still transfer or stream. i simply brought it up to see if there were others out there like me.


----------



## lpwcomp

Aero 1 said:


> ive tried everything under the sun. reboots, clear and deletes, unplu, plug in, rain dances, rubbed my cat on it, nothing has worked. ive learned to live with it because i can still transfer or stream. i simply brought it up to see if there were others out there like me.


Well, you answered a couple of my questions. You can still stream and TiVo knows about the issue. I'd love to try and duplicate the problem but unfortunately one of my 2 Premieres is connected to an old, non-HD TV as is my THD.

Unless you're (understandably) tired of dealing with it here, what kind of network connections do the Premieres have - Wired Ethernet, wireless Ethernet, power line, MOCA? Fixed IP or DHCP?

One wonders if use of the uh, pre wide release s/w shall we say, has anything to do with it.


----------



## Aero 1

lpwcomp said:


> Well, you answered a couple of my questions. You can still stream and TiVo knows about the issue. I'd love to try and duplicate the problem but unfortunately one of my 2 Premieres is connected to an old, non-HD TV as is my THD.
> 
> Unless you're (understandably) tired of dealing with it here, what kind of network connections do the Premieres have - Wired Ethernet, wireless Ethernet, power line, MOCA? Fixed IP or DHCP?
> 
> One wonders if use of the uh, pre wide release s/w shall we say, has anything to do with it.


right now one tivo is wired ethernet and the other is wired ethernet connected to a Fios MOCA router acting as a bridge only to my main Fios router. 6 months ago when i wasnt getting HD browsing like everyone else, i did all those permutations. wired, wireless, both moca, 1 moca, swap locations, nothing worked. now that one of them works and the other doesnt, i swapped locations again to rule out MOCA, and it is still happening. its the software on the box.

like i said, i can still stream and transfer, its just nice to browse in HD and with folders.


----------



## lpwcomp

Aero 1 said:


> like i said, i can still stream and transfer, its just nice to browse in HD and with folders.


You have no groups when browsing the other TiVo?


----------



## Aero 1

lpwcomp said:


> You have no groups when browsing the other TiVo?


im sorry, i meant to say "ts just nice to browse in HD and have the live tv window". i dont know why i said folders.


----------



## ufo4sale

CoxInPHX said:


> This issue seems to be fixed, can anyone else confirm.
> 
> If you record a program but are watching it in the buffer at the end of the recording time it dumps you to Live TV even when nothing else is recording. to finish you must go to My Shows and fast forward to where you left off.​
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9470638#post9470638


i notice this problem to. let me know step by step what i should do to recreate the problem to see if it is fixed. i'm hoping it is. Thanks.


----------



## CoxInPHX

CoxInPHX said:


> This issue seems to be fixed, can anyone else confirm.
> 
> If you record a program but are watching it in the buffer at the end of the recording time it dumps you to Live TV even when nothing else is recording. to finish you must go to My Shows and fast forward to where you left off.​
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9470638#post9470638





ufo4sale said:


> i notice this problem to. let me know step by step what i should do to recreate the problem to see if it is fixed. i'm hoping it is. Thanks.


Using LiveTV only - Do not play from "My Shows"

Tune to a recording in progress or start a recording on a LiveTV tuner.
Press Pause and wait to start watching the program from the buffer.
Or rewind so you are not at the end of the buffer.
When the recording time ends does the program continue to the end or does it dump you to the current location of the same tuner on LiveTV?


----------



## CoxInPHX

Aero 1 said:


> also, before this update, i was never able to browse other premiere's on my network with the new HD GUI, it was the old SD. I remember the update before this one, that there was trouble with it. now with this new update, only 1 premiere is able to browse the other in the HD GUI, but the other still browses the other one in SD. anyone experience this?


Have you tried a different Router? I had this problem after the Fall Update, I swapped to a different Router and the problem was fixed.

I suspect this is a multicast issue, and the Fall Update seemed to magnify this issue.


----------



## RojCowles

CoxInPHX said:


> I would like to update the first post in this thread, so please list the following observations you have regarding the 20.3.1 SW Update.
> 
> Please use brief, succinct statements, and links to threads or posts of observations and/or previous bugs
> 
> 
> New Functionality - Improvements
> MLBtv
> Initiating a recording from the guide seems more fluid. No "please wait" box pops up and the guide seems to refresh in a cleaner manner. - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9664109#post9664109
> 
> Bugs - Fixed
> Fixed - Minimum File Size Bug (of 2.05GB/.5Hr-SD / 4.1GB/.5Hr-HD) - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=500526
> 
> Bugs - Newly Introduced
> The "One Moment" screen launches in HD then quickly changes resolution to blurry.
> Info Bar now only shows 3 lines of text for the program description, then truncates the remaining. Four lines of text may/will initially display but quickly shortens to 3 lines. - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9665852#post9665852
> Deleting items from the RDF now takes 5 seconds for the list to repopulate, before the next item can be deleted.
> Signal Meter appears not to be accurate and will report the same Signal Level for all channels. (needs further research) http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9678493#post9678493
> 
> Changes but not necessarily Bugs
> MBT (MotherBoard Temp) no longer has a temperature degree symbol ° and no longer has the (Normal) status
> Network/Phone text changed to just Network on 2 tuner Premieres
> Font size increase in Info Bar for Other Tuner(s) info


Couple of fixes I notice

SD Menus: Deleting shows in a Folder using the Clear button no longer skips a line
SD Menus: Scheduling a show manually from a WishList no longer adds the recorded show under My Shows as well as the Wishlist folder


----------



## astrohip

RojCowles said:


> [*]SD Menus: Scheduling a show manually from a WishList no longer adds the recorded show under My Shows as well as the Wishlist folder


This drove me nuts. It wasn't any kind of mission-critical bug, but I used that exact function all the time. It clearly was unintended behavior, a result of some other code change somewhere.

Glad to see it fixed.


----------



## ahwman

I'm aware of a bug whereby often times SDV channels will not tune, then simply using channel up/down will resolve and tune the problem channel. However my issue runs deeper with one particular SDV channel (Science HD) channel 335 in my area. About once/week I cannot tune this channel and using channel up/down doesn't resolve it. The only way for me to resolve it is to start recordings on all four tuners (Premiere XL4) excluding the problem channel, then cancel recordings and re-tune channel 335 which always seems to bring it back. Apparently if a tuner sits on this channel for too long the issue will start again, so forcing my TiVo to record 4 different channels somehow purges the tuners. Has anyone else had this issue? I was crossing my fingers that this would have been resolved in the update...


----------



## Aero 1

CoxInPHX said:


> Have you tried a different Router? I had this problem after the Fall Update, I swapped to a different Router and the problem was fixed.
> 
> I suspect this is a multicast issue, and the Fall Update seemed to magnify this issue.


I havent tried that, and I'm not going to bother. i like the Fios router because of the built in MOCA, and frankly, its not worth it to me to go through the trouble replicating firewall rules and what not to the new router when one premiere works and the other doesnt. thanks for the suggestion anyway.


----------



## Kingpcgeek

DogsOfWarandPeac said:


> New bug with update: When you're watching the buffer and are not caught up with live TV then fast forward to catch up there is no sound when you do catch up to live. If you quickly hit rewind and then play the sound comes back.


I have experienced this on my Elite, but cannot replicate on my 4. I do however have an additional bug to add to this. When I came home yesterday both of my TiVos had no sound on the channel they had been on since watching the prior day. I had to change the channel to get sound.

The Elite is connected via HDMI to a receiver. The 4 is connected via HDMI directly to the TV.


----------



## ufo4sale

CoxInPHX said:


> Using LiveTV only - Do not play from "My Shows"
> 
> Tune to a recording in progress or start a recording on a LiveTV tuner.
> Press Pause and wait to start watching the program from the buffer.
> Or rewind so you are not at the end of the buffer.
> When the recording time ends does the program continue to the end or does it dump you to the current location of the same tuner on LiveTV?


This was NOT fixed. I REPEAT this was NOT fixed. so much for that. still very annoying.


----------



## shamilian

Kingpcgeek said:


> I have experienced this on my Elite, but cannot replicate on my 4. I do however have an additional bug to add to this. When I came home yesterday both of my TiVos had no sound on the channel they had been on since watching the prior day. I had to change the channel to get sound.
> 
> The Elite is connected via HDMI to a receiver. The 4 is connected via HDMI directly to the TV.


I have had this bug that when you turn on the tv there is no audio on live tv, if you pause/play the sound comes back. If you liveTV 4 times the sound is there. So the sound is recording just not playing...(HDMI link)

I tried to report this to Tivo, all they told me is that I should unplug my tivo and wait 30 seconds. Tivo support seems to be complete useless.


----------



## bigguy126

Two new ones since the update.

This one has happened more than once. Watching a show. Finished watching and press left arrow and delete. Screen comes back to my shows and "deleted " show is still there and have to select and delete again.

This is a weird one that just happened today. 2 shows in a group and finished watching one. Left arrow and delete. Select the remaining show to watch and press play. It played the show that was just deleted. I thought - did the network screw up and run the same show twice. So I deleted it. Then thought about the software update and figured I would try it again and recovered it from the recently deleted section and watched it and it was the new show and not the one that just played. Really weird.


----------



## nooneuknow

Kingpcgeek said:


> I have experienced this on my Elite, but cannot replicate on my 4. I do however have an additional bug to add to this. When I came home yesterday both of my TiVos had no sound on the channel they had been on since watching the prior day. I had to change the channel to get sound.
> 
> The Elite is connected via HDMI to a receiver. The 4 is connected via HDMI directly to the TV.


Did you try the Instant-Replay (8 second skip-back button)? That will get the sound back for one problem. My best guess is it re-syncs the HDMI stream.

There is yet another problem, where Live TV and Recordings have video, but no sound, which the above trick doesn't do anything to help, nor has a workaround been reported for (other than changing Channels if all you are doing is live viewing).

They are two distinct issues. The latter one has been a problem since the update before this one, but could also be due to a cablecard firmware issue with Cisco/SA cable cards. Mine have been flash updated twice in a year, but the problem remains... It's also been a very intermittent problem for most, and having it happen on more than one unit at the same time and/or the same channel at the same time hasn't been reported, that I've seen, anyway.


----------



## lpwcomp

CoxInPHX said:


> Using LiveTV only - Do not play from "My Shows"
> 
> Tune to a recording in progress or start a recording on a LiveTV tuner.
> Press Pause and wait to start watching the program from the buffer.
> Or rewind so you are not at the end of the buffer.
> When the recording time ends does the program continue to the end or does it dump you to the current location of the same tuner on LiveTV?





ufo4sale said:


> This was NOT fixed. I REPEAT this was NOT fixed. so much for that. still very annoying.


Sorry, not seeing this. In fact, I don't believe I ever saw this. The only time I see anything resembling this is if I switch away from the recording after it has ended, say by swapping tuners. This is on a 2-tuner Premiere.


----------



## Bierboy

ufo4sale said:


> This was NOT fixed. I REPEAT this was NOT fixed.....


What are you?....broadcasting on a CB radio?


----------



## Bierboy

bigguy126 said:


> Two new ones since the update.
> 
> This one has happened more than once. Watching a show. Finished watching and press left arrow and delete. Screen comes back to my shows and "deleted " show is still there and have to select and delete again.
> 
> This is a weird one that just happened today. 2 shows in a group and finished watching one. Left arrow and delete. Select the remaining show to watch and press play. It played the show that was just deleted. I thought - did the network screw up and run the same show twice. So I deleted it. Then thought about the software update and figured I would try it again and recovered it from the recently deleted section and watched it and it was the new show and not the one that just played. Really weird.


Not new...happened to me before and after the update....


----------



## CoxInPHX

CoxInPHX said:


> Using LiveTV only - Do not play from "My Shows"
> 
> Tune to a recording in progress or start a recording on a LiveTV tuner.
> Press Pause and wait to start watching the program from the buffer.
> Or rewind so you are not at the end of the buffer.
> 
> When the recording time ends does the program continue to the end.
> or does it dump you to the current location of the same tuner on LiveTV?





ufo4sale said:


> This was NOT fixed. I REPEAT this was NOT fixed. so much for that. still very annoying.


Please describe the behavior you are seeing.


----------



## MPSAN

Did TIVO stop the update? My P4 has it but my XL4 is still on the older s/w. Both units were bought from TIVO on the same day.


----------



## crxssi

bigguy126 said:


> This one has happened more than once. Watching a show. Finished watching and press left arrow and delete. Screen comes back to my shows and "deleted " show is still there and have to select and delete again.


*BINGO!*

I was not going to post that because I thought I was going crazy... but it has happened to me at least four times now and I have NEVER seen that before. At least the first two times I thought I had done something wrong 

So confirmed, yes, it is an intermittent and new bug.


----------



## crxssi

Bierboy said:


> Not new...happened to me before and after the update....


Which one?


----------



## wmcbrine

crxssi said:


> *BINGO!*
> 
> I was not going to post that because I thought I was going crazy... but it has happened to me at least four times now and I have NEVER seen that before. At least the first two times I thought I had done something wrong
> 
> So confirmed, yes, it is an intermittent and new bug.


Not new -- I've seen that many times, and I've yet to be upgraded to 20.3.1.


----------



## nooneuknow

wmcbrine said:


> Not new -- I've seen that many times, and I've yet to be upgraded to 20.3.1.


Agreed, not new, & still not fixed with this half-baked update.


----------



## Bierboy

crxssi said:


> Which one?


both...


----------



## JoeKustra

MPSAN said:


> Did TIVO stop the update? My P4 has it but my XL4 is still on the older s/w. Both units were bought from TIVO on the same day.


Seems that way. Count your blessings.


----------



## slowbiscuit

crxssi said:


> *BINGO!*
> 
> I was not going to post that because I thought I was going crazy... but it has happened to me at least four times now and I have NEVER seen that before. At least the first two times I thought I had done something wrong
> 
> So confirmed, yes, it is an intermittent and new bug.


We do this all the time on the Elite and rarely see this happen. It used to happen all the time if the recording was in progress but I can't remember the last time I've seen it for completed recordings. Before or after the update.


----------



## crxssi

wmcbrine said:


> Not new -- I've seen that many times, and I've yet to be upgraded to 20.3.1.


All I can say is that I have never seen it do this before until this last update. And it is something I would have noticed.


----------



## CoxInPHX

Has anyone checked to see if the Elite/XL4 still stutters during playback while in the loading phase of the connection to the TiVo servers.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=502722

I myself have not yet noticed it, since 20.3.1


----------



## Bierboy

CoxInPHX said:


> Has anyone checked to see if the Elite/XL4 still stutters during playback while in the loading phase of the connection to the TiVo servers.
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=502722
> 
> I myself have not yet noticed it, since 20.3.1


Never saw it before or after....


----------



## slowbiscuit

CoxInPHX said:


> Has anyone checked to see if the Elite/XL4 still stutters during playback while in the loading phase of the connection to the TiVo servers.
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=502722
> 
> I myself have not yet noticed it, since 20.3.1


I have seen the occasional stuttered playback on the Elite since the update, but it goes away if you skip back and forward (or pause).


----------



## ufo4sale

CoxInPHX said:


> Please describe the behavior you are seeing.


Number 2 exactly what you said. I was 10 minutes back in the recording then when the recording light stop it jumped to live TV instead of resuming play till the end of the show.


----------



## MPSAN

JoeKustra said:


> Seems that way. Count your blessings.


Yes, TIVO asked me if I wanted to be added to the list and I said NO. 

Last night there was a show on Discovery we had recorded but it stuttered a lot. However, that may be the channel as it has not happened anywhere else. I tried DVR diagnostics to see the signal level, etc but I had to go back as there was no data on the screen. I did a reboot. At least I did not have to pull the plug like the Series 3's!


----------



## moose53

I've been seeing a couple of things since the update (roughly a week or so ago for me): the signal strength meter is not accurate ... same strength number for every channel (I've been told already that this was happening to others before the update; but, I've never seen it before). When the signal strength is inaccurate, I'm also seeing a lot of pixelization.

And, I keep losing my connection to my Playon. When I look at all the Playon settings on my computer, it seems to be working correctly. I'm able to record shows through Playlater when the TV has no Playon connection.

Is there any way to find out if any errors are being generated by this behavior??

Oh, I should mention, both of these are happening four to six times a day. If I had known a year ago that the software was going to be so futzed, I would have never bought a lifetime subscription.

Do they document anywhere what exactly was changed in this most recent "update"??

Thanks.


----------



## CoxInPHX

ufo4sale said:


> Number 2 exactly what you said. I was 10 minutes back in the recording then when the recording light stop it jumped to live TV instead of resuming play till the end of the show.


Interesting, I am seeing #1 on my Elite, and have tested many times, (haven't tested yet on the 2 tuner Premieres). I often watch Primetime shows this way.

This is what I am seeing after the update:
Watching a program (using trick-play with LiveTV from the buffer) while the same program is currently recording, no longer dumps out to LiveTV when the recording program's time-slot ends. 
(Note: Buffer is still lost when a new recording begins, but back-to-back recordings will seamlessly transition to the next program)​*EDIT:*
I am going to have to retract my statement on this. I just tested again on both Elite and Premieres, and results were not consistent, the Premiere stayed Paused, but this time the Elite got dumped to LiveTV, so the behavior does not seem to be consistent.


----------



## JoeKustra

MPSAN said:


> Yes, TIVO asked me if I wanted to be added to the list and I said NO.
> 
> Last night there was a show on Discovery we had recorded but it stuttered a lot. However, that may be the channel as it has not happened anywhere else. I tried DVR diagnostics to see the signal level, etc but I had to go back as there was no data on the screen. I did a reboot. At least I did not have to pull the plug like the Series 3's!


It would be nice if there was an option to allow/deny automatic updates. I see some good things with 20.3.1, but it does have some not so good things too. I can get optional automatic updates on my TV, AVR, etc., but I would rather see what others find first. Forums like this one are great. I don't have any issues with the existing firmware, but that really depends on one's viewing habits.

Last fall I was having frequent spontaneous reboots on my P4. I found a power cycle once a month seemed to stop them. It could just be my cable feed. It gives me an excuse to clean under the unit also.


----------



## Bierboy

moose53 said:


> ....Do they document anywhere what exactly was changed in this most recent "update"??...


Have you read thru this thread?  You'd have the answer to your question if you had....


----------



## shamilian

CoxInPHX said:


> Has anyone checked to see if the Elite/XL4 still stutters during playback while in the loading phase of the connection to the TiVo servers.
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=502722
> 
> I myself have not yet noticed it, since 20.3.1


Has not happened on 20.3.1 after a week.....


----------



## WO312

Bierboy said:


> Have you read thru this thread?  You'd have the answer to your question if you had....


434 posts?? Give me a break.


----------



## nooneuknow

WO312 said:


> 434 posts?? Give me a break.


I'll hold back on what I'd REALLY like to say to that.

I'll just say I've read EVERY one of them, so have others. Those who haven't are most of the VERY REASON there are 434 posts...


----------



## moose53

Bierboy said:


> Have you read thru this thread?  You'd have the answer to your question if you had....


I was more interested in making people aware of problems I've been having since the update ... rebooting 4 to 6 times a day is more than an "inconvenience".

I'm certainly not gonna take the time to read pages and pages of info that don't anything to do with me.

AND, I'm certainly not going to be as rude as you've been posting a response that helped in no way at all. If you can't contribute, don't bother posting at all, please.


----------



## JoeKustra

I'm sure post #1 of this thread would have a reference to a document of all changes if TiVo had made one available.

Barb, you started your post 431 with your observations with 20.3.1, that's a contribution. Duplicates don't really matter.


----------



## nooneuknow

moose53 said:


> I'm certainly not gonna take the time to read pages of pages of info that don't anything to do with me.


How could you know that if you DON'T read them? You just busted yourself.

Nobody is going to offer any help to anybody who posts something like this, nor will they care about what you post.

If what you say is truly how you operate, then I'd suggest forgetting about these forums completely. They are of no use to you, going by your own logic. They're just a place to *****, and nobody will ever take you seriously.

No matter what you say beyond this, I will not respond. You're part of the problem, not the solution, and anybody else joining in on this devalues the thread and its purpose, by diluting the pertinent content.


----------



## ufo4sale

To be honest I asked if there was a list of changes and people responded to that not to long ago. I asked in a different way but people still responded positively. Take it as it is.


----------



## nooneuknow

ufo4sale said:


> To be honest I asked if there was a list of changes and people responded to that not to long ago. I asked in a different way but people still responded positively. Take it as it is.


Since this is On-Topic, as at least some regard, I'll post a bit (and it's more of a blanket-post, than anything directed at any one, or two, people):

#1: TiVo has been among the leading 1% (just an educated guess), of consumer electronics manufacturers, who have a long history of never officially releasing any "changelogs", to say what their software updates do, are for, fix, add, take away, try to fix, or so on...

#2: There have been some TiVo insiders that have passed-along, some info on what are supposedly in the updates, from time to time, but not all of the time, and not always via the same means.

#3: TiVo broke this pattern by giving on-screen notifications that an update has been installed and listed new features (or cleverly made bug-fixes appear as a gift to us). This happened, if I recall correctly, on the last two updates, prior to this one, BUT NOT THIS ONE.

#4: The inside source that many have been using to get the information from has been reported to have said a few things about the update. See the post from lpwcomp, with the links, after this was posted.

#5: Numbers 1-4, and TiVo's history of secrecy (unless they're making a PR move by announcing new features/capabilities/greater compatibility, like as if they are a gift to us), makes threads like this INVALUABLE.

I'd be surprised if *somebody* from TiVo doesn't look in these update-oriented threads, in lurk mode, only trolling for info that they may be able to use. Maybe it's just hopeful/wishing thinking.

The MOST important thing is once the community has established a pattern of problems introduced by an update, or than have not been fixed by an update, the information GETS passed along to TiVo by EVERYBODY affected. If 10,000 people post here, but only 10 report issues to TiVo, how can we expect them to fix things?

For those that don't know, have forgotten, or are just to lazy to read this whole thread: Don't forget the TCF (here) is a PRIVATELY operated, advertising-funded, forum, and that TiVo (The actual company) has their OWN forums, where there is no speculation or debate over whether actual TiVo representative are, at minimum, ACTIVELY monitoring the posts in their own forums. They do sometimes interact, as well.

I hope that all comes across in the HELPFUL way I intended. I don't want to be stuck with this botched update until the fall, and am hoping this information (in this thread, and what's reported to TiVo) can lead to an interim patch update before then...


----------



## moose53

nooneuknow said:


> How could you know that if you DON'T read them? You just busted yourself.
> 
> Nobody is going to offer any help to anybody who posts something like this, nor will they care about what you post.
> 
> If what you say is truly how you operate, then I'd suggest forgetting about these forums completely. They are of no use to you, going by your own logic. They're just a place to *****, and nobody will ever take you seriously.
> 
> No matter what you say beyond this, I will not respond. You're part of the problem, not the solution, and anybody else joining in on this devalues the thread and its purpose, by diluting the pertinent content.


How I "Operate" is I search the forums to see if my problem has already been reported/solved... If not, I post.

Get a life.


----------



## lpwcomp

TiVoMargret's posts here and here were far more than some "TiVo insider" letting something slip.


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> TiVoMargret's posts here and here were far more than some "TiVo insider" letting something slip.


I stand corrected on that, and updated the post.


----------



## CoxInPHX

Just an observation: It seems there are a significant number of regulars who are not posting in this thread.

Could it be they are still in the Field Trials Beta group, If that is the case I would expect to see another update to the priority list within 2 weeks, 20.3.1.1 maybe???


----------



## jrtroo

Sounds logical. Tivo has had several occasions where the initial "opt-in" list triggered a fix-it update prior to a full roll out.


----------



## crxssi

CoxInPHX said:


> Just an observation: It seems there are a significant number of regulars who are not posting in this thread.


I think a significant number of people are just not having any issues.


----------



## Darkev

My thoughts are that testing is failing at TiVo. After the update, most of the bugs everyone is reporting were discovered very quickly. I discovered most of these bugs within an hour of getting the update. The first one I discovered was the antenna signal not working. Considering how quickly the bugs were discovered by most of us, I'm questioning how much testing is done at TiVo before they release a new version? What do they do? Just boot it up and if they see a show on LiveTV that means it all works? They should be going through each and every single menu option and trying out every feature. They can't be doing this since bugs are often released with the updates. It's sloppy in my opinion and should not be happening. Very disappointed.


----------



## compnurd

Darkev said:


> My thoughts are that testing is failing at TiVo. After the update, most of the bugs everyone is reporting were discovered very quickly. I discovered most of these bugs within an hour of getting the update. The first one I discovered was the antenna signal not working. Considering how quickly the bugs were discovered by most of us, I'm questioning how much testing is done at TiVo before they release a new version? What do they do? Just boot it up and if they see a show on LiveTV that means it all works? They should be going through each and every single menu option and trying out every feature. They can't be doing this since bugs are often released with the updates. It's sloppy in my opinion and should not be happening. Very disappointed.


It depends on how you look at it. I have 2 Regular Premieres and 1 4 Tuner and have noticed nothing different with this update. Like I Said earlier.. had I not signed up for the update and this was just pushed to me.. I would have no clue


----------



## chiguy50

chiguy50 said:


> fwiw, I signed up both my Premiere and Premiere Elite for the priority update on May 16, and neither one has received the update yet.
> 
> I choose to take this as a "positive" sign that TiVo recognizes the update needs more work.





CoxInPHX said:


> Just an observation: It seems there are a significant number of regulars who are not posting in this thread.
> 
> Could it be they are still in the Field Trials Beta group, If that is the case I would expect to see another update to the priority list within 2 weeks, 20.3.1.1 maybe???


Still no updates on my end, and that's a record time-lag for me on a priority update.


----------



## slowbiscuit

CoxInPHX said:


> Just an observation: It seems there are a significant number of regulars who are not posting in this thread.


I've got two more bugs that were not fixed that you can add to the OP:

- stop and delete a current recording in an ARWL with one recording does not actually delete the group (even though the prompt says it will), you still have to delete it separately.

- while watching a current recording, if you go into the guide and try to schedule a new recording with options or modify any other scheduled recording (changing pad times etc. in the options screen), when you get done you're kicked out of the recording and back into live TV for that channel. This also happens when watching completed recordings but you get sent to the last active channel.

Both of these bugs have been in the HDUI for a while now and should have been fixed long ago. The second one in particular can cause a lot of pain if you're watching sports delayed because you'll get thrown into live TV (possibly spoiling the result) when done. Both of them are easy to work around but are stupid and needless bugs that indicate a lack of thorough testing.


----------



## Bierboy

WO312 said:


> 434 posts?? Give me a break.


A quick search would have saved him "all the work".....sheesh....


----------



## Bierboy

moose53 said:


> I was more interested in making people aware of problems I've been having since the update ... rebooting 4 to 6 times a day is more than an "inconvenience".
> 
> I'm certainly not gonna take the time to read pages and pages of info that don't anything to do with me.
> 
> AND, I'm certainly not going to be as rude as you've been posting a response that helped in no way at all. If you can't contribute, don't bother posting at all, please.


No thanks....if you want info, spend time searching and reading for it. Don't be so freakin' lazy...


----------



## JoeKustra

Bierboy said:


> A quick search would have saved him "all the work".....sheesh....


her


----------



## lpwcomp

slowbiscuit said:


> - while watching a current recording, if you go into the guide and try to schedule a new recording with options or modify any other scheduled recording (changing pad times etc. in the options screen), when you get done you're kicked out of the recording and back into live TV for that channel. This also happens when watching completed recordings but you get sent to the last active channel.


Not seeing and never have seen this problem. This is on a 2-tuner Premiere.

Edit: The only time I see anything similar to this is if I am _*streaming*_ something from another Premiere. In that case, as soon as I select a program from the guide, I am "thrown to" live TV on the local TiVo with whatever is on the active tuner on the local TiVo appearing in the video window.


----------



## nooneuknow

CoxInPHX said:


> Just an observation: It seems there are a significant number of regulars who are not posting in this thread.
> 
> Could it be they are still in the Field Trials Beta group, If that is the case I would expect to see another update to the priority list within 2 weeks, 20.3.1.1 maybe???


One the first part: I've noticed that too. I chalked it up to maybe these "regulars" have either given up on this forum, or are engaged in reporting the issues by a means they feel will yield better results (like spending the time talking to TiVo, rather than posting here).

On the second part: That sounds like a reasonable theory.

Imagine this hypothetical situation: Suppose you were a former member of a Beta test, or Field Trial, team, consisting of a whopping ten people. Suppose you were directed to ONLY test/try at most five issues (with the focus on ONLY one issue). Suppose you find a new problem, which makes all your TiVos virtually unusable, and report it, but are largely ignored, until you get very assertive. Suppose that you are then told that you are part of a multi-group testing system, but can't share data between them, and are told that others aren't reporting it. Suppose you are told that the problem was reproduced by a TiVo employee (thus saving you having to ship one or more of your own units in for analysis). Then, suppose you hear that upper management wants the updated rolled, on a deadline, regardless. Then suppose you are told, after being more assertive, that the problem only affects a small number, compared to the whole. Then suppose you see the update roll, introducing an issue that is never fully resolved. Now, how do you suppose you'd feel about ever participating again?


----------



## nooneuknow

Darkev said:


> My thoughts are that testing is failing at TiVo. After the update, most of the bugs everyone is reporting were discovered very quickly. I discovered most of these bugs within an hour of getting the update. The first one I discovered was the antenna signal not working. Considering how quickly the bugs were discovered by most of us, I'm questioning how much testing is done at TiVo before they release a new version? What do they do? Just boot it up and if they see a show on LiveTV that means it all works? They should be going through each and every single menu option and trying out every feature. They can't be doing this since bugs are often released with the updates. It's sloppy in my opinion and should not be happening. Very disappointed.


See the post I contributed right before this one, in reply to CoxInPHX. Check out the "hypothetical" situation I spoke of at the end of that post.


----------



## lpwcomp

IMHO, the problem with the theory that they are ignoring problems encountered during beta test is that most of the problems with releases over the last few years should have been caught during unit or integration testing. Some of them, such as the DST problem ,where the time was displayed differently on different screens, should never have occurred at all in a properly designed system.

My personal theory is that they have "off shored" a lot of the s/w development. You get what you pay for.


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> IMHO, the problem with the theory that they are ignoring problems encountered during beta test is that most of the problems with releases over the last few years should have been caught during unit or integration testing. Some of them, such as the DST problem ,where the time was displayed differently on different screens, should never have occurred at all in a properly designed system.
> 
> My personal theory is that they have "off shored" a lot of the s/w development. You get what you pay for.


Agreed.


----------



## JoeKustra

Double agreed.

Sometimes I feel all coding and testing is done in a far off vacuum. That's not unique to TiVo, but they should be better than that by now.


----------



## slowbiscuit

lpwcomp said:


> Not seeing and never have seen this problem. This is on a 2-tuner Premiere.
> 
> Edit: The only time I see anything similar to this is if I am _*streaming*_ something from another Premiere. In that case, as soon as I select a program from the guide, I am "thrown to" live TV on the local TiVo with whatever is on the active tuner on the local TiVo appearing in the video window.


You have to bring up the guide while in playback, then either schedule or modify a recording AND go into the options screen for it (from the guide). If you just schedule a recording with no options and don't leave the guide you won't see it - you have to leave the recording you're watching by selecting other options, in other words, to go set padding and other stuff. Then when you hit left arrow to exit the options screen, you're in the guide again BUT with live TV instead of the recording you're watching.

This happens every single time for me, if you do it as I said I can't see how you'd not see this. Nasty bug for sports watchers.


----------



## lpwcomp

slowbiscuit said:


> You have to bring up the guide while in playback, then either schedule or modify a recording AND go into the options screen for it (from the guide). If you just schedule a recording with no options and don't leave the guide you won't see it - you have to leave the recording you're watching by selecting other options, in other words, to go set padding and other stuff. Then when you hit left arrow to exit the options screen, you're in the guide again BUT with live TV instead of the recording you're watching.
> 
> This happens every single time for me, if you do it as I said I can't see how you'd not see this. Nasty bug for sports watchers.


I was able to duplicate the behavior you describe - if I turned off the video window. If I leave it on as I usually do, no problem.


----------



## cherry ghost

slowbiscuit said:


> You have to bring up the guide while in playback, then either schedule or modify a recording AND go into the options screen for it (from the guide). If you just schedule a recording with no options and don't leave the guide you won't see it - you have to leave the recording you're watching by selecting other options, in other words, to go set padding and other stuff. Then when you hit left arrow to exit the options screen, you're in the guide again BUT with live TV instead of the recording you're watching.
> 
> This happens every single time for me, if you do it as I said I can't see how you'd not see this. Nasty bug for sports watchers.


I can also duplicate it, but have never noticed before because I always exit the options screen by pressing the TiVo button rather than the left arrow.


----------



## cherry ghost

I slight fix I've noticed that was broken in a prior update is when selecting a different airing of a show to record from "Upcoming" once again automatically adds in any padding you had set in the original recording when you go to the "Recording Options" screen.


----------



## Balzer

crxssi said:


> I think a significant number of people are just not having any issues.


(bell ringing)... Good answer. I haven't haven't had any issues with the update. Everything working as it was before the update.

Although I did have one fix I noticed. Previous to this update, I would occasionally get a failure error when trying to stream from my wireless Premiere "Bravo" to my wired Premiere "Alpha", and the Alpha would stop responding to all remote imputs. The light would flash on the Tivo when I pressed a button, but nothing would happen, and I would have to pull the plug and reboot.

Since the update, I still get the error occasionally about not being able to stream from Bravo to Alpha, which I attribute to the flaky wireless connection. However, I no longer have to reboot the Alpha to get it to respond to the remote inputs.

As a side note, I never have an error when trying to stream from the Alpha to the Bravo.

EDIT: Oh yea, I forgot I do have the antenna signal problem, so I did notice that bug with the update.


----------



## slowbiscuit

lpwcomp said:


> I was able to duplicate the behavior you describe - if I turned off the video window. If I leave it on as I usually do, no problem.


Must be it, I leave the video window off all the time. Funny bug.


----------



## 241705

In general, 20.3.1 on my Premiere XL has resulted in slower performance from the HDUI. When hitting the TiVo button, I now notice the occasional black screen (except for the video window) for a couple of seconds and then the content fills in. Everything with that TiVo was actually going pretty well, then 20.3.1 came along...


----------



## Bierboy

One issue that I HAVE experienced since the update is with the iOS app....ever since this update, the TiVo iOS app (latest version) now fails to connect to my Premiere when I try to access "My Shows" or the TDL. I am able to see the program guide, but when I try the TDL and My Shows, I get "Your To Do List (My Shows list) could not be found because your TiVo box Premiere does not appear to be connected to the Internet. Please fix your connection, or try again later". This is only outside my home network; within the home network it works fine.

What makes me think this is the update's fault is that I CAN access the NPL and TDL on my other TiVo (an HD) through the app, so I know I have Internet connectivity (both outside and inside my home network). I have re-installed the app to no avail. This is VERY frustrating since I depend a lot on my app to record shows last minute.


----------



## UCLABB

Bierboy said:


> One issue that I HAVE experienced since the update is with the iOS app....ever since this update, the TiVo iOS app (latest version) now fails to connect to my Premiere when I try to access "My Shows" or the TDL. I am able to see the program guide, but when I try the TDL and My Shows, I get "Your To Do List (My Shows list) could not be found because your TiVo box Premiere does not appear to be connected to the Internet. Please fix your connection, or try again later". This is only outside my home network; within the home network it works fine.
> 
> What makes me think this is the update's fault is that I CAN access the NPL and TDL on my other TiVo (an HD) through the app, so I know I have Internet connectivity (both outside and inside my home network). I have re-installed the app to no avail. This is VERY frustrating since I depend a lot on my app to record shows last minute.


Scratching my head. I didn't think the TiVo app works outside the home wifi network and one had to use the TiVo website to access one's TiVos. Am I missing something here?


----------



## nooneuknow

Balzer said:


> Although I did have one fix I noticed. Previous to this update, I would occasionally get a failure error when trying to stream from my wireless Premiere "Bravo" to my wired Premiere "Alpha", and the Alpha would stop responding to all remote imputs. The light would flash on the Tivo when I pressed a button, but nothing would happen, and I would have to pull the plug and reboot.


IF you should happen to experience loss of control over any of your units again, please try just unplugging your cable coax first, for a minute or less (then the antenna coax, if you use it, and the former fails). It usually only takes seconds to regain full control of the unit, if it works). It'll reduce any time lost from recordings in progress, or that are about to record, and/or the buffer (while reducing the slim, but possible, scenario of corrupting the drive, or any portions of the drive, which could leave you stuck in the endless GSOD reboot loop, as the unit tries and fails to repair/reboot itself, to infinity).

Please report back on your findings, should this happen again. I know it sounds unlikely that this would work under some circumstances, but I haven't had to pull power since I started using this method.


----------



## Balzer

nooneuknow said:


> IF you should happen to experience loss of control over any of your units again, please try just unplugging your cable coax first, for a minute or less (then the antenna coax, if you use it, and the former fails). It usually only takes seconds to regain full control of the unit, if it works). It'll reduce any time lost from recordings in progress, or that are about to record, and/or the buffer (while reducing the slim, but possible, scenario of corrupting the drive, or any portions of the drive, which could leave you stuck in the endless GSOD reboot loop, as the unit tries and fails to repair/reboot itself, to infinity).
> 
> Please report back on your findings, should this happen again. I know it sounds unlikely that this would work under some circumstances, but I haven't had to pull power since I started using this method.


I'll give this a try if it happens again, although it hasn't happened since the update. And I don't have cable, just antenna.
Thanks.


----------



## compnurd

UCLABB said:


> Scratching my head. I didn't think the TiVo app works outside the home wifi network and one had to use the TiVo website to access one's TiVos. Am I missing something here?


it does with limited features


----------



## Bierboy

compnurd said:


> it does with limited features


Not very limited with the Premieres (more so with the HD). With the Premieres you can access your NPL, My Shows, schedule recordings, create/delete SPs, deleted recorded shows, see your program guide....that is, until recently. It's very aggravating to have had those features, and now they're inaccessible outside your home network. What is also odd is that I can access my SP list and edit it; it's just the NPL and My Shows that are inaccessible. Although I just looked at my SP list, and the order is all out of whack...


----------



## lpwcomp

slowbiscuit said:


> Must be it, I leave the video window off all the time. Funny bug.


There is a workaround. Use the "Zoom" button rather than left arrow to exit from the recording options screen.


----------



## lpwcomp

Bierboy said:


> Not very limited with the Premieres (more so with the HD). With the Premieres you can access your NPL, My Shows, schedule recordings, create/delete SPs, deleted recorded shows, see your program guide....that is, until recently. It's very aggravating to have had those features, and now they're inaccessible outside your home network. What is also odd is that I can access my SP list and edit it; it's just the NPL and My Shows that are inaccessible. Although I just looked at my SP list, and the order is all out of whack...


Could be the update. Could also be middlemind problems. Or a combination.

One thing I just noticed about the todo lists available at tivo.com. They do not include entries created by a repeated manual recording. Definitely not update related as it is the same for my THD.


----------



## djwilso

I just wanted to add one more anecdote to this bug from the 1st post:



> 5. Reports of Audio loss or drop-outs when Dolby is selected and LiveTV trick-play functions are used, esp Skip-to-end.


I have my TiVo Premiere Elite connected to a Denon AVR-2809CI receiver using HDMI and then to my TV also via HDMI. The TiVo sound is set to Dolby Digital.

When I scan to the end of the Live TV buffer, there is always no sound. To get audio back, I have to pause for just a fraction of a second and then the sound comes back.

If I back up or go forward in the Live TV buffer without getting to the very end, there is always sound.

This began with the latest 20.3.1 update and has been pretty annoying. Luckily the workaround is very simple.


----------



## morac

Bierboy said:


> What makes me think this is the update's fault is that I CAN access the NPL and TDL on my other TiVo (an HD) through the app, so I know I have Internet connectivity (both outside and inside my home network). I have re-installed the app to no avail. This is VERY frustrating since I depend a lot on my app to record shows last minute.


The app uses a different mechanism for Series 3 boxes than for Series 4 boxes. Series 3 boxes connect to TiVo's servers every few hours to upload the TDL and SPL, so the list will show up even if the box is offline or even unplugged. For Series 4 boxes, the box is polled directly so it needs to be online.

If it's not working, the Premiere or the app is having problems communicating with the Mind server.

On a side note, the same is true even when on your home network. If your Internet goes down or TiVo's servers have issues, the app won't work.


----------



## mrizzo80

I'm continuing to have issues with exiting out of Netflix episodes. Hitting the UP button is not taking me back out to the main Netflix screen. The only way I can exit an episode is to hit the TiVo button; which dumps me all the way back out to the main TiVo screen.

I think this has only worked properly in one viewing session since the update hit. I've probably watched Netflix 5 or 6 times since then. 

Anyone else?


----------



## moyekj

mrizzo80 said:


> I'm continuing to have issues with exiting out of Netflix episodes. Hitting the UP button is not taking me back out to the main Netflix screen. The only way I can exit an episode is to hit the TiVo button; which dumps me all the way back out to the main TiVo screen.
> 
> I think this has only worked properly in one viewing session since the update hit. I've probably watched Netflix 5 or 6 times since then.
> 
> Anyone else?


 I get that occasionally. What makes it annoying is sometimes when it happens for episodic shows Netfilx bookmark doesn't get set to the next episode as is normally the case.

As a tip use the "clear" button instead of "TiVo" button to exit since that takes you back to where you entered Netflix from so less remote presses to get back into Netflix again.


----------



## mattack

cherry ghost said:


> I slight fix I've noticed that was broken in a prior update is when selecting a different airing of a show to record from "Upcoming" once again automatically adds in any padding you had set in the original recording when you go to the "Recording Options" screen.


I thought I've seen it do it only sometimes -- i.e. I *THOUGHT* that if you get to View Upcoming from different places, it either did or didn't add the padding. I don't have exact steps, so hadn't mentioned it. It previously used to NOT add it in at all (on P4 in HD UI mode that is).


----------



## cherry ghost

mattack said:


> I thought I've seen it do it only sometimes -- i.e. I *THOUGHT* that if you get to View Upcoming from different places, it either did or didn't add the padding. I don't have exact steps, so hadn't mentioned it. It previously used to NOT add it in at all (on P4 in HD UI mode that is).


You have to do it from "Upcoming" from within "Explore this show", not from "View other showings". You also have to select "Options", not just "Record this episode"


----------



## ufo4sale

nooneuknow said:


> Although I'd rather beat myself with a sock full of broken glass and dog turds, than use TiVo for Netflix (or any of the streaming apps), I do give them a shot after each update, just to see if they've changed...
> 
> What you describe has already been reported, and I confirmed it as well. I could be wrong, but I think a prior update that installed the "new" interface, had that bug, another took it away, and now it's back again, just like a few other issues, or annoyances, in other functions, that have been reported and confirmed.
> 
> Although, it seems that nobody is taking in to account that the people who seem to be having the least issues, or annoyances, with this update, are running on the 4-tuner platform. It's annoying, because I don't feel those who can't afford to upgrade every time TiVo drops another turd (product) on the market, should be treated like lepers.
> 
> I have 4 Premiere TCD746320 (2-tuner models).
> 
> Perhaps the Original Poster, who started this thread, and those invested in this thread should start trying to convince people it MATTERS what model you have (as in "TiVo Premiere" alone, just isn't enough).


I have zero problems exiting a show and going back to the main menu in netflix and I to have a two turner premier TiVo.


----------



## nooneuknow

ufo4sale said:


> I have zero problems exiting a show and going back to the main menu in netflix and I to have a two turner premier TiVo.


I misunderstood that post and replied about a different Netflix issue. Oops, my bad, post retracted.

But, I still mean this part of it:

Although, it seems that nobody is taking in to account that the people who seem to be having the least issues, or annoyances, with this update, are running on the 4-tuner platform. It's annoying, because I don't feel those who can't afford to upgrade every time TiVo drops another turd (product) on the market, should be treated like lepers.

I have 4 Premiere TCD746320 (2-tuner models).

Perhaps the Original Poster, who started this thread, and those invested in this thread should start trying to convince people it MATTERS what model you have (as in "TiVo Premiere" alone, just isn't enough).


----------



## CoxInPHX

I noticed the following items are missing in the Info Bar when viewing using MRS (Streaming) from a remote Series 4.

Would someone without the 20.3.1 update see if any of these items are in the 20.2.2.1 SW when viewing using MRV.

Season# and Episode# (I recall these were missing also in 20.2.2.1)
Date & Time of recording *New?*
Program Categories (i.e. Sitcom, Drama, Horror, Suspense, etc) *New?*
(Note: the commas are still shown though, between were the Categories should be)


----------



## slowbiscuit

OP you need a section in your first post for known bugs not fixed. I've posted a couple and others have too and if Tivo ever looks at these threads (ha!) it could be useful.


----------



## chiguy50

CoxInPHX said:


> I noticed the following items are missing in the Info Bar when viewing using MRV from a remote Series 4.
> 
> Would someone without the 20.3.1 update see if any of these items are in the 20.2.2.1 SW when viewing using MRV.
> 
> Season# and Episode# (I recall these were missing also in 20.2.2.1)
> Date & Time of recording *New?*
> Program Categories (i.e. Sitcom, Drama, Horror, Suspense, etc) *New?*
> (Note: the commas are still shown though, between were the Categories should be)


Confirmed as per the above.


----------



## CoxInPHX

chiguy50 said:


> Confirmed as per the above.


But were they missing before 20.3.1? or are you confirming the two New ones are only missing in 20.3.1?
I am pretty sure the Season# and Episode# were missing before.


----------



## CoxInPHX

slowbiscuit said:


> You have to bring up the guide while in playback, then either schedule or modify a recording AND go into the options screen for it (from the guide). If you just schedule a recording with no options and don't leave the guide you won't see it - you have to leave the recording you're watching by selecting other options, in other words, to go set padding and other stuff. Then when you hit left arrow to exit the options screen, you're in the guide again BUT with live TV instead of the recording you're watching.
> 
> This happens every single time for me, if you do it as I said I can't see how you'd not see this. Nasty bug for sports watchers.





lpwcomp said:


> I was able to duplicate the behavior you describe - if I turned off the video window. If I leave it on as I usually do, no problem.





slowbiscuit said:


> Must be it, I leave the video window off all the time. Funny bug.


Same here:
I was able to duplicate the behavior you describe - But only if I turned off the video window. If I leave it on as I usually do, no problem.


----------



## lpwcomp

CoxInPHX said:


> I noticed the following items are missing in the Info Bar when viewing using MRV from a remote Series 4.
> 
> Would someone without the 20.3.1 update see if any of these items are in the 20.2.2.1 SW when viewing using MRV.
> 
> Season# and Episode# (I recall these were missing also in 20.2.2.1)


This is acquired from the net based on programId. It's very inconsistent as to how long and for which episodes the info is still available.


CoxInPHX said:


> Date & Time of recording *New?*


Can you attach a screen shot because I don't have this issue.


CoxInPHX said:


> Program Categories (i.e. Sitcom, Drama, Horror, Suspense, etc) *New?*
> (Note: the commas are still shown though, between were the Categories should be)


Also acquired from the net based based on programId. Again, screen shot would be helpful because what I see in that situation is the actual word "Separator", not commas.


----------



## JoeKustra

lpwcomp said:


> This is acquired from the net based on programId. It's very inconsistent as to how long and for which episodes the info is still available.
> Can you attach a screen shot because I don't have this issue.
> Also acquired from the net based based on programId. Again, screen shot would be helpful because what I see in that situation is the actual word "Separator", not commas.


What are the contents of this programId? A pointer to its spec would be appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## lpwcomp

JoeKustra said:


> What are the contents of this programId? A pointer to its spec would be appreciated. Thanks.


There is no spec to which I can point. In the XML for a recording, it is the <program> level <uniqueId>, just as the seriesId is the <series> level <uniqueId>.

As far as the actual value is concerned, go to zap2it, go to an episode of a series. The URL will contain a string of this pattern: EPnnnnnnnnnnnn. For instance, Season 4, Episode 2 of "The Glades" has a URL of
"http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tv/the-glades-shot-girls/EP012881580040"

EP012881580040 is the programId of that episode. Note here that zap2it's seriesId is EP01288158, TiVo seriesId is SH01288158.

The problem is not this field being missing, it is that whatever db the TiVo uses to get the rest of the data based on this field apparently does not maintain entries indefinitely.


----------



## shamilian

Ever since the update I get a little pixelation ( a few macro blocks in a geometric pattern ) maybe once a day... When I look at the DVR info it always says no RS errors...


----------



## JoeKustra

lpwcomp said:


> There is no spec to which I can point. In the XML for a recording, it is the <program> level <uniqueId>, just as the seriesId is the <series> level <uniqueId>.


Thank you. I was just asking to see if this item could explain errors in the guide, SP and To Do List.

Just to keep it short, the recent shows of _Motive_ (on ABC) and _Continuum_ (on SyFy) cause problems. It may be related to their Canadian origin. And, as I have said before, Zap2It doesn't have this problem.


----------



## lpwcomp

JoeKustra said:


> Thank you. I was just asking to see if this item could explain errors in the guide, SP and To Do List.
> 
> Just to keep it short, the recent shows of _Motive_ (on ABC) and _Continuum_ (on SyFy) cause problems. It may be related to their Canadian origin. And, as I have said before, Zap2It doesn't have this problem.


That issue has been discussed in numerous threads for years, including in SyFy Continuum Season Pass . It has absolutely nothing to do the recent update and is not even limited to the Premiere. All TiVos work exactly the same way in this regard.


----------



## azbimmer

My Tivo (in AZ) still shows the old version, whereas everyone here seems to be getting the new update.

Is there a way to force my Tivo Premier XL4 to update its software?


----------



## CoxInPHX

lpwcomp said:


> Can you attach a screen shot because I don't have this issue.
> Also acquired from the net based based on programId. Again, screen shot would be helpful because what I see in that situation is the actual word "Separator", not commas.


*EDIT: I originally meant to say MRS (Streaming) not MRV (Transfer) sorry for the confusion.*


Season# and Episode# (I recall these were missing also in 20.2.2.1)
Date & Time of recording *New?*
Program Categories (i.e. Sitcom, Drama, Horror, Suspense, etc) *New?*
(Note: the commas are still shown though, between were the Categories should be)

Note: Thumbs ratings also missing.

*Remote TiVo MRS Info Bar* - Missing Info









*Main TiVo Info Bar*


----------



## JWhites

Any patches released in the past few weeks that resolved any of the problems we've all noticed?


----------



## JWhites

I noticed the random commas in that upper right corner when I'd watch Jay Leno. Before the update it would say "Comedy, Talk Show". But since the 20.3.1 update, just the commas. 

I just checked your Doctor Who episode on a 20.2.2 software box and the Drama, Fantasy, Science Fiction categories are there. I've been seeing programs with "Separator" as a category on the 20.2.2 software so I don't think it's something that changed in 20.3.1 This is both locally and through MRS.
I do see the issue of Separator showing up in place of the actual category when watching a program that was transferred from a box running 20.2.2.1 to another also running 20.2.2.1. For example I have the program "Nashville" recorded on my living room TiVo Premiere. When I stream it to my TiVo Premiere 4 in the bedroom everything works fine and it shows "Drama" as the category, however when I transfer the same program from the living room to the bedroom and watch the program in the bedroom, "Separator" shows up as the category instead of "Drama".


----------



## aaronwt

CoxInPHX said:


> *EDIT: I originally meant to say MRS (Streaming) not MRV (Transfer) sorry for the confusion.*
> 
> 
> Season# and Episode# (I recall these were missing also in 20.2.2.1)
> Date & Time of recording *New?*
> Program Categories (i.e. Sitcom, Drama, Horror, Suspense, etc) *New?*
> (Note: the commas are still shown though, between were the Categories should be)
> 
> Note: Thumbs ratings also missing.
> 
> *Remote TiVo MRS Info Bar* - Missing Info
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Main TiVo Info Bar*


I see what you mean. The info is missing when I use my two tuner Premiere to stream from my ELites. But when I use my Minis the info is there.


----------



## JWhites

CoxInPHX said:


> I noticed the following items are missing in the Info Bar when viewing using MRS (Streaming) from a remote Series 4.
> 
> Would someone without the 20.3.1 update see if any of these items are in the 20.2.2.1 SW when viewing using MRV.
> 
> Season# and Episode# (I recall these were missing also in 20.2.2.1)
> Date & Time of recording *New?*
> Program Categories (i.e. Sitcom, Drama, Horror, Suspense, etc) *New?*
> (Note: the commas are still shown though, between were the Categories should be)


* The season and episode issue I'm not seeing on 20.2.2.1 Some programs just don't have it while others do. I do see the issue when watching a program that was transferred from a box running 20.2.2.1 to another also running 20.2.2.1.
* Date and time issue I'm not seeing on 20.2.2.1 (watching Worlds Wildest Police Videos)
* I'm not seeing any problem with the program categories being missing on 20.2.2.1. I did however see this problem start with the 20.3.1 update with just the commas appearing.

This is both locally on the box as well as through MRS.


----------



## JWhites

CoxInPHX said:


> I would like to update the first post in this thread, so please list the following observations you have regarding the 20.3.1 SW Update.
> 
> Please use brief, succinct statements, and links to threads or posts of observations and/or previous bugs
> 
> 
> New Functionality - Improvements
> MLBtv
> Initiating a recording from the guide seems more fluid. No "please wait" box pops up and the guide seems to refresh in a cleaner manner. - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9664109#post9664109
> 
> Bugs - Fixed
> Fixed - Minimum File Size Bug (of 2.05GB/.5Hr-SD / 4.1GB/.5Hr-HD) - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=500526
> 
> Bugs - Newly Introduced
> The "One Moment" screen launches in HD then quickly changes resolution to blurry.
> Info Bar now only shows 3 lines of text for the program description, then truncates the remaining. Four lines of text may/will initially display but quickly shortens to 3 lines. - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9665852#post9665852
> Deleting items from the RDF now takes 5 seconds for the list to repopulate, before the next item can be deleted.
> Signal Meter appears not to be accurate and will report the same Signal Level for all channels. (needs further research) http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9678493#post9678493
> 
> Changes but not necessarily Bugs
> MBT (MotherBoard Temp) no longer has a temperature degree symbol ° and no longer has the (Normal) status
> Network/Phone text changed to just Network on 2 tuner Premieres
> Font size increase in Info Bar for Other Tuner(s) info


You forgot to mention the issue with the network setup diagram displaying a TiVo Mini/Preview instead of a TiVo Premiere/4. Don't know if anyone else noticed it though. It's minor but can be confusing for novice users setting up for the first time.

Regarding these errors and bugs, according to TiVo tech support: "If customers are having problems with their equipment they need to call in and report it, not just post about it on the forum, otherwise it can't/won't be fixed." The agent I spoke to on the phone made it sound spiteful.


----------



## nooneuknow

JWhites said:


> According to TiVo. "If customers are having problems with their equipment they need to call in and report it, not just post about it on the forum, otherwise it can't be fixed"


VERY TRUE! I've made mention of that many times when posting in this thread. If 10,000 people report a bug here, but only 10 report it DIRECTLY to TiVo, what can any reasonable and logical person expect to happen?

TiVo has five ways to contact them, as well as their own forums (which these are NOT). There's no excuse for not making use of the 24/7 support options they have, in addition to their business hours support options.

If you don't get the information to TiVo, directly, but spend all your time and effort posting here... Sorry, it's all for nothing, if you actually want TiVo to do something.

There's nothing wrong with what goes on HERE, and we can all help each other HERE, to the best of our abilities, just not TiVo themselves...


----------



## lpwcomp

CoxInPHX said:


> *EDIT: I originally meant to say MRS (Streaming) not MRV (Transfer) sorry for the confusion.*
> 
> 
> Season# and Episode# (I recall these were missing also in 20.2.2.1)
> Date & Time of recording *New?*
> Program Categories (i.e. Sitcom, Drama, Horror, Suspense, etc) *New?*
> (Note: the commas are still shown though, between were the Categories should be)
> 
> Note: Thumbs ratings also missing.
> 
> *Remote TiVo MRS Info Bar*


OK, I concur on all three of the bullets as bugs, and I _*think*_ new to this release, even bullet 1 (can someone still running 20.2.2.1 check this?). No idea on the Thumbs ratings. I never really pay attention to that. I don't see them on a transferred recording either.


----------



## JWhites

lpwcomp said:


> OK, I concur on all three of the bullets as bugs, and I _*think*_ new to this release, even bullet 1 (can someone still running 20.2.2.1 check this?). No idea on the Thumbs ratings. I never really pay attention to that. I don't see them on a transferred recording either.


I did. Didn't notice these being new since as I said before I'm seeing it in the 20.2.2.1.


----------



## JWhites

So far the bugs and glitches and changes far outweigh the improvements introduced in this current update which sucks.


----------



## CoxInPHX

JWhites said:


> You forgot to mention the issue with the network setup diagram displaying a TiVo Mini/Preview instead of a TiVo Premiere/4. Don't know if anyone else noticed it though. It's minor but can be confusing for novice users setting up for the first time.


Where is this network setup diagram in the Premiere Menu?


----------



## CoxInPHX

nooneuknow said:


> VERY TRUE! I've made mention of that many times when posting in this thread. If 10,000 people report a bug here, but only 10 report it DIRECTLY to TiVo, what can any reasonable and logical person expect to happen?
> 
> TiVo has five ways to contact them, as well as their own forums (which these are NOT). There's no excuse for not making use of the 24/7 support options they have, in addition to their business hours support options.
> 
> If you don't get the information to TiVo, directly, but spend all your time and effort posting here... Sorry, it's all for nothing, if you actually want TiVo to do something.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with what goes on HERE, and we can all help each other HERE, to the best of our abilities, just not TiVo themselves...


Honestly, the only way to get something fixed from my experience is to contact Margret directly.

TiVo Support has scripted responses that never actually address the real issue.


----------



## nooneuknow

CoxInPHX said:


> Honestly, the only way to get something fixed from my experience is to contact Margret directly.
> 
> TiVo Support has scripted responses that never actually address the real issue.


True, on the scripted responses, and generally being USELESS, except for the fact that you called and reported a problem gets logged into the same system that scripts their useless excuse for support.

Even though what we tell them isn't part of a script, it's supposed to be logged, categorized, and analyzed, at some point.

How many times have you had a product, where it's been nothing but problems, you put up with it, try to work around it, and then, as a last resort call to seek help, or complain, and hear "This is the first time we've heard from you about it."? As frustrating as it is, what's worse is that support reps will OUTRIGHT LIE TO YOU, and say that your the first and only person to report a problem. That's how TiVo handled the TiVo HD "grey screen" issue, right up until it leaked out that they were working on a fix for it. Then, all of a sudden, they acknowledged it wasn't some small and isolated problem.

I put dealing with a TiVo "support representative" up high in the top ten things that piss me off, and I avoid, if possible. I have to take extra blood pressure meds and beta-blockers, just to dial just about any support number. It's not just TiVo that is as you describe. It's the cableco, the phoneco, my cell provider, and on, and on, and on.

We just need to see it for what it is! It's a way for them to avoid having to do anything, by making us feel that it doesn't matter if we call, THEN BLAMING US FOR NOT CALLING, if we don't. Yes, if you have an insider, or a reliable contact, that actually gives you true support and gets things done, that works good too... But, those who we tend to start leaning on too hard, might either get crushed, or fired (by actually helping, outside the script).


----------



## nooneuknow

In addition to my prior rant, I'd like to share something interesting I found. I've misplaced my TiVo Desktop Plus key, and was digging around on TiVo's website. I found a section called My Support, which shows entries dating back to 2008. Any time I was persistent enough to get a matter "escalated", it got logged there, in rather good detail (but not the un-escalated ones), along with every time I called to cancel service, or whenever "ERT" (some form of department in TiVo), or "TiVo Executive Relations" got involved, or was asked to be involved by somebody else within TiVo.

When I had basically threatened to abandon TiVo and go on a crusade against them in 2010, I'd used their online e-mail support portal to give a very long rant, which also included all the details of my issues I wanted addressed. What I found VERY INTERESTING, was that every response, by every person, that the matter was forwarded to, within TiVo, was there, complete with dates, times, full names, e-mail addresses, and so on. There were a few comments I found HIGHLY OFFENSIVE/VERY INNAPROPRIATE, like as if they'd been included by accident, or the person who commented didn't know I would ever see it (it DID take me 3 years to see it for the first time, but hadn't looked for it, either).

In trying to keep this short, I'll say I just finished e-mailing them via their online portal, asking them for my TiVo Desktop Plus product key, checked that same area, and there it was, documented that I placed that inquiry, and that it is currently is still open/unresolved.

So, here's how I see it: If you want to start a documented trail of every contact made with TiVo, that you can see for yourself, use the online email portal, or call in and demand they escalate the matter, if your phone session proves useless. Check your support logs for an entry about it (I'd say give it a business day to appear). If you see nothing, call back, call back, call back, and keep at it. If no luck, use the email portal, and print copies (in case the entries should disappear, instead of being marked as closed/resolved).

I do have to say, that the ONLY times, I got anywhere with TiVo, and got satisfactory results, was when I did what it took to get entries in that personal support log.

While ANY support call you make to TiVo SHOULD be logged, categorized, and later analyzed, it does seem to take getting "escalated" beyond the 1st-tier level of support drones, in order for you to see for yourself, that contacting them is, at minimum, logged.


----------



## jrtroo

Sounds like nearly every support call I've made to any entity.


----------



## lessd

nooneuknow said:


> In addition to my prior rant, I'd like to share something interesting I found. I've misplaced my TiVo Desktop Plus key, and was digging around on TiVo's website. I found a section called My Support, which shows entries dating back to 2008. Any time I was persistent enough to get a matter "escalated", it got logged there, in rather good detail (but not the un-escalated ones), along with every time I called to cancel service, or whenever "ERT" (some form of department in TiVo), or "TiVo Executive Relations" got involved, or was asked to be involved by somebody else within TiVo.
> 
> When I had basically threatened to abandon TiVo and go on a crusade against them in 2010, I'd used their online e-mail support portal to give a very long rant, which also included all the details of my issues I wanted addressed. What I found VERY INTERESTING, was that every response, by every person, that the matter was forwarded to, within TiVo, was there, complete with dates, times, full names, e-mail addresses, and so on. There were a few comments I found HIGHLY OFFENSIVE/VERY INNAPROPRIATE, like as if they'd been included by accident, or the person who commented didn't know I would ever see it (it DID take me 3 years to see it for the first time, but hadn't looked for it, either).
> 
> In trying to keep this short, I'll say I just finished e-mailing them via their online portal, asking them for my TiVo Desktop Plus product key, checked that same area, and there it was, documented that I placed that inquiry, and that it is currently is still open/unresolved.
> 
> So, here's how I see it: If you want to start a documented trail of every contact made with TiVo, that you can see for yourself, use the online email portal, or call in and demand they escalate the matter, if your phone session proves useless. Check your support logs for an entry about it (I'd say give it a business day to appear). If you see nothing, call back, call back, call back, and keep at it. If no luck, use the email portal, and print copies (in case the entries should disappear, instead of being marked as closed/resolved).
> 
> I do have to say, that the ONLY times, I got anywhere with TiVo, and got satisfactory results, was when I did what it took to get entries in that personal support log.
> 
> While ANY support call you make to TiVo SHOULD be logged, categorized, and later analyzed, it does seem to take getting "escalated" beyond the 1st-tier level of support drones, in order for you to see for yourself, that contacting them is, at minimum, logged.


*My Support* only shows the last 8 support calls to Feb 2013, how did you get back to 2008 ?


----------



## Bierboy

nooneuknow said:


> ....TiVo has five ways to contact them, as well as their own forums (which these are NOT). There's no excuse for not making use of the 24/7 support options they have, in addition to their business hours support options....


Reporting to TiVo directly is an exercise in futility. I've posted on their "official" forum several times about issues, and they've never been resolved. I get the courtesy response from Kaitlyn, but then no other followup and no resolution...


----------



## slowbiscuit

Not to mention that the info (and the posters, generally) here are better than their official forums.

If they're not looking at the update report threads here, I would be surprised. That doesn't mean that they actually do anything with the info of course.


----------



## lpwcomp

When mattack reported a problem with transferring from the pause point in the official support forum, the the TiVo support person suggested making a minute long recording and test using that. It is not possible to transfer that short of a recording from a pause point.


----------



## JWhites

Bierboy said:


> Reporting to TiVo directly is an exercise in futility. I've posted on their "official" forum several times about issues, and they've never been resolved. I get the courtesy response from Kaitlyn, but then no other followup and no resolution...


They want you to *call in*


----------



## Bierboy

JWhites said:


> They want you to *call in*


...as if THAT would make a difference?


----------



## lpwcomp

JWhites said:


> They want you to *call in*


So TiVo wants us to use the communication method:


Most prone to errors
That can't be fully documented by the user (he/she said, she/he said)
That takes the most time from the customer's standpoint
That is not visible to other customers

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.


----------



## JWhites

Bierboy said:


> ...as if THAT would make a difference?


According to TiVo, it does. Quite frankly I'd rather these issues be fixed then everyone standing on the sideline just complaining about it. What's the harm in actually calling in and reporting it?


----------



## JWhites

As opposed to what, doing nothing and nothing getting fixed? Where is the sense in _that_. What exactly is the point in posting your complaints and issues in this thread if others are adamant that TiVo doesn't monitor the forum? Is it just to complain and bash TiVo? At least try working with TiVo to resolve the issues instead of automatically dismissing it as futile. What is everyone expecting to gain from this thread if they aren't going to make the effort to help TiVo fix the issues which in turn benefit themselves as well, otherwise this self defeatist attitude and these inactions sound more like a waste of time then anything I could ever suggest. Where is the sense in _that_?


----------



## MPSAN

nooneuknow said:


> VERY TRUE! I've made mention of that many times when posting in this thread. If 10,000 people report a bug here, but only 10 report it DIRECTLY to TiVo, what can any reasonable and logical person expect to happen?
> 
> TiVo has five ways to contact them, as well as their own forums (which these are NOT). There's no excuse for not making use of the 24/7 support options they have, in addition to their business hours support options.
> 
> If you don't get the information to TiVo, directly, but spend all your time and effort posting here... Sorry, it's all for nothing, if you actually want TiVo to do something.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with what goes on HERE, and we can all help each other HERE, to the best of our abilities, just not TiVo themselves...


Well said!

We lived in a community with a community TV antenna. It was terrible and, being a ham radio operator, all the neighbors would complain and report the bad antenna issues....to ME So, as we walked around I would get stopped and more people would tell me of the stations that were BAD.

When the admins had a meeting, I stood up and explained the issue(s). I told them that everyone stops me and has the same complaints. Of course, as we all get TV from this same antenna.

Well, it was viewed as ONE complaint! Me saying that everyone was complaining was thought of as just ME!


----------



## sharkster

I'm starting to wonder if this Spring update was ditched so they could fine-tune it.

This is the first time I have not put myself on the Priority List, in years, so I don't know what the time span usually is, but neither of my Premieres has tried to update. I'll take that as a good sign. Things are going well right now and I'll just leave well enough alone.


----------



## ahwman

Has anyone else experienced the following:

I was watching a recording today and about 2/3 of the way through, ths picture froze and I assumed my TiVo was a about to reboot which it never did. I then pressed the TiVo button and was able to get back to Tivo central. At that point, I tried live TV and all I got was a black screen and tried several other channels - same black screen. I then attempted to play a different recording, again got a black screen. So at that point, I couldn't watch any live TV or play any recordings - yet my TiVo wasn't locked up. I rebooted the TiVo via the help menu and everything is working normally again. This is the first time I've seen this issue since I purchased my XL4 in late January. I'm wondering if it's related to the 20.3.1 update?


----------



## JWhites

MPSAN said:


> Well said!
> 
> We lived in a community with a community TV antenna. It was terrible and, being a ham radio operator, all the neighbors would complain and report the bad antenna issues....to ME So, as we walked around I would get stopped and more people would tell me of the stations that were BAD.
> 
> When the admins had a meeting, I stood up and explained the issue(s). I told them that everyone stops me and has the same complaints. Of course, as we all get TV from this same antenna.
> 
> Well, it was viewed as ONE complaint! Me saying that everyone was complaining was thought of as just ME!


That's exactly what TiVo is doing with me. Since I was the first one to call in about these problems, as far as TiVo was concerned they thought it was an isolated issue with my two boxes at the time and not a more widespread issue. What makes matters worse is the fact that this software isn't in general release yet so the few people who actually have it and who are calling in with these problems are not enough for them to consider it as an issue. If more people who are experiencing these issues would call in or make some sort of effort to inform TiVo through their contact methods, TiVo would realize just how widespread these issues are. If this doesn't happen, the only other way would be for the buggy software to be released as it is into the general population on all boxes, and then that's when everyone would be reporting these bugs but by then it would be too late and probably another three to six months before a patch would be released to correct these bugs. Currently I'm trying to bring attention to these bugs and glitches so they can be fixed _before_ the general release.


----------



## JWhites

sharkster said:


> I'm starting to wonder if this Spring update was ditched so they could fine-tune it.
> 
> This is the first time I have not put myself on the Priority List, in years, so I don't know what the time span usually is, but neither of my Premieres has tried to update. I'll take that as a good sign. Things are going well right now and I'll just leave well enough alone.


Ironically this is the first time I actually put myself on the priority list and I'm still unsure if it was a good idea. On one hand, I'm glad that I noticed all of these bugs and glitches and am hoping they'll be fixed before the general release (sometime in the middle of June I was told a few weeks ago, but of course that could change), on the other hand, however, I hate that I had to go through so much hassle replacing all my equipment, and of course I hate that the bugs existed in the first place. I'm currently unsure if I want to sign up for the priority list in the future due to all this hassle and aggravation, but I'm afraid I can't trust TiVo's quality control department anymore after what's happened.


----------



## lpwcomp

JWhites said:


> As opposed to what, doing nothing and nothing getting fixed? Where is the sense in _that_. What exactly is the point in posting your complaints and issues in this thread if others are adamant that TiVo doesn't monitor the forum? Is it just to complain and bash TiVo? At least try working with TiVo to resolve the issues instead of automatically dismissing it as futile. What is everyone expecting to gain from this thread if they aren't going to make the effort to help TiVo fix the issues which in turn benefit themselves as well, otherwise this self defeatist attitude and these inactions sound more like a waste of time then anything I could ever suggest. Where is the sense in _that_?


As opposed to:


Posting in the tivo.com forum
e-mail
online chat

The first two of these have the additional advantage of the ability to provide graphical examples of the problem, at least in some cases.


----------



## JWhites

lpwcomp said:


> As opposed to:
> 
> 
> Posting in the tivo.com forum
> e-mail
> online chat
> 
> The first two of these have the additional advantage of the ability to provide graphical examples of the problem, at least in some cases.


According to TiVo those are acceptable ways of informing them of the problems, just make sure to include the original incident number(s) upon future contact with them so they can keep it organized when escalating from the different levels. :up:


----------



## tomhorsley

So, I'm watching ESPNHD live today when the time for a scheduled recording came up. The screen goes black, the sound goes off, and it never comes back. If I go to another channel things are OK, but back on ESPNHD, it is still all black. It won't even pop up a note about channel not available or problem with signal or anything.

Never having seen this problem before, I checked in settings and discovered that it apparently got the 20.3 update sometime last night or this morning. Golly, what a swell introduction to a new update.

The recording apparently never happened. It said it was recording the program, but once the time was up, no entry showed up for it, and any attempt to watch the recording while it was supposedly in progress just gave blank screen and info bar said there were 0 minutes recorded.

I'm rebooting the TiVo now to see if ESPNHD will be there after it comes back. (And it is back now, just like it was there 1 second before the recording started). The History entry says not recorded due to no signal, but it wouldn't tell me anything about no signal when I was trying to tune the program.

I hope it isn't going to do this every time the tuner happens to already be on the right channel when it starts a recording...


----------



## JoeKustra

I hope this isn't too much of a stretch, but I expect to have someone follow a script when helping me fix a problem with any CE device. Sure, maybe I missed something when I already did what they want me to do again.

Now how hard would it be to take one of those script readers, give them a laptop, teach them to use it, and have them check the internet once a day for comments on forums like this one and AVSForum? Too expensive? Too many problems to test? Perhaps they wouldn't understand that a post could be reporting a problem?

I swear people who are in the support department never use the product. I'm doubtful people in any department use the product. When the problem with Desktop and the cookie was discovered, TiVo's first response _on their web site_ was to ask for a screen shot of the error message. I never felt so insulted. It has set my opinion of how hard they want to help.


----------



## MPSAN

JWhites said:


> That's exactly what TiVo is doing with me. Since I was the first one to call in about these problems, as far as TiVo was concerned they thought it was an isolated issue with my two boxes at the time and not a more widespread issue. What makes matters worse is the fact that this software isn't in general release yet so the few people who actually have it and who are calling in with these problems are not enough for them to consider it as an issue. If more people who are experiencing these issues would call in or make some sort of effort to inform TiVo through their contact methods, TiVo would realize just how widespread these issues are. If this doesn't happen, the only other way would be for the buggy software to be released as it is into the general population on all boxes, and then that's when everyone would be reporting these bugs but by then it would be too late and probably another three to six months before a patch would be released to correct these bugs. Currently I'm trying to bring attention to these bugs and glitches so they can be fixed _before_ the general release.


Well, I have had issues with TIVO and other Hardware vendors and when they say that I am the first person to report an issue (someone has to be first) I always say that I am glad they are not the Fire Department! One support person in India once assured me he was not the fire department. I guess he didn't get it. 

Also, I wonder if the update has stopped as my P4 has it and my XL4 still has not gotten it. Both of these Lifetime Premieres were bought from TIVO on the same day.


----------



## MPSAN

JoeKustra said:


> I hope this isn't too much of a stretch, but I expect to have someone follow a script when helping me fix a problem with any CE device. Sure, maybe I missed something when I already did what they want me to do again.
> 
> Now how hard would it be to take one of those script readers, give them a laptop, teach them to use it, and have them check the internet once a day for comments on forums like this one and AVSForum? Too expensive? Too many problems to test? Perhaps they wouldn't understand that a post could be reporting a problem?
> 
> I swear people who are in the support department never use the product. I'm doubtful people in any department use the product. When the problem with Desktop and the cookie was discovered, TiVo's first response _on their web site_ was to ask for a screen shot of the error message. I never felt so insulted. It has set my opinion of how hard they want to help.


...and anyone who is good at Quality knows that the least expensive way to fix a problem is to catch it at the source! It would be good for TIVO to pay attention and not just to problems that everyone is seeing. Some obscure issues have a way of growing. Believe me, as a Migrant Electronics Worker (Big Computers) I have seen this too often! I know that problems do not just go away on their own.


----------



## tomhorsley

MPSAN said:


> Also, I wonder if the update has stopped as my P4 has it and my XL4 still has not gotten it. Both of these Lifetime Premieres were bought from TIVO on the same day.


Nope. I just got the update on my Premiere and I never signed up for priority updates at all, it just showed up this morning or last night sometime. The first thing it did was screw up a recording (see my note a couple of posts above .


----------



## crxssi

MPSAN said:


> Well, I have had issues with TIVO and other Hardware vendors and when they say that I am the first person to report an issue


I deal with dozens of different companies' "support" departments pretty regularly (part of my job). Almost all of them say crap like "we have never heard of that problem before". It is beyond irritating, especially when you know it isn't true.

And then you get such useful suggestions like "is it plugged in?" "have you tried rebooting it?" "restore everything to factory defaults- does that help?"

Ug. I wish companies had secret back doors for users with a clue so we could skip the front-line nonsense.


----------



## JoeKustra

The typical reason why the TiVo support forums are in a serious need of help:

http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/fo...D=11103131&channelID=10&portalPageId=10432560

I'm sure they don't wish to seem clueless.


----------



## JoeKustra

tomhorsley said:


> Nope. I just got the update on my Premiere and I never signed up for priority updates at all, it just showed up this morning or last night sometime. The first thing it did was screw up a recording (see my note a couple of posts above .


Crap! I thought I was safe. Now I won't sleep tonight.


----------



## tomhorsley

I did actually just notice one improvement in 20.3:

If you access the list of recordings via https in a web browser, you can click on the "folder" links now and actually get to the contents of the folders.

I wonder if they fixed the cookie expiration problem as well? I haven't tried using curl yet without using the phony cookie work-around.


----------



## MPSAN

crxssi said:


> I deal with dozens of different companies' "support" departments pretty regularly (part of my job). Almost all of them say crap like "we have never heard of that problem before". It is beyond irritating, especially when you know it isn't true.
> 
> And then you get such useful suggestions like "is it plugged in?" "have you tried rebooting it?" "restore everything to factory defaults- does that help?"
> 
> Ug. I wish companies had secret back doors for users with a clue so we could skip the front-line nonsense.


OH, and we could start a separate thread on this...how about saying we apologize at the start of every sentence!!! And I KNOW my call is very important to you!!


----------



## MPSAN

tomhorsley said:


> Nope. I just got the update on my Premiere and I never signed up for priority updates at all, it just showed up this morning or last night sometime. The first thing it did was screw up a recording (see my note a couple of posts above .


I did not sign up either, but one updated and the other still has not.


----------



## moyekj

tomhorsley said:


> I wonder if they fixed the cookie expiration problem as well?


 They did.


----------



## shamilian

ahwman said:


> Has anyone else experienced the following:
> 
> I was watching a recording today and about 2/3 of the way through, ths picture froze and I assumed my TiVo was a about to reboot which it never did. I then pressed the TiVo button and was able to get back to Tivo central. At that point, I tried live TV and all I got was a black screen and tried several other channels - same black screen. I then attempted to play a different recording, again got a black screen. So at that point, I couldn't watch any live TV or play any recordings - yet my TiVo wasn't locked up. I rebooted the TiVo via the help menu and everything is working normally again. This is the first time I've seen this issue since I purchased my XL4 in late January. I'm wondering if it's related to the 20.3.1 update?


I have had that happen twice in previous versions ( not in this one ).
There was also no background on the old menus. This is when the tivo forgets how to play video to the screen.

I think it is recording fine....just does not know how to play it.


----------



## Bierboy

JWhites said:


> According to TiVo, it does. Quite frankly I'd rather these issues be fixed then everyone standing on the sideline just complaining about it. What's the harm in actually calling in and reporting it?





JWhites said:


> As opposed to what, doing nothing and nothing getting fixed? Where is the sense in _that_. What exactly is the point in posting your complaints and issues in this thread if others are adamant that TiVo doesn't monitor the forum? Is it just to complain and bash TiVo? At least try working with TiVo to resolve the issues instead of automatically dismissing it as futile. What is everyone expecting to gain from this thread if they aren't going to make the effort to help TiVo fix the issues which in turn benefit themselves as well, otherwise this self defeatist attitude and these inactions sound more like a waste of time then anything I could ever suggest. Where is the sense in _that_?


Because, as someone just posted above, calling in is the most useless way to deal with it. TiVo wants you to because there's no accountability. When TiVo ignores the issues I post on THEIR OWN FORUMS, then anyone who peruses them can see how they ignore their customers. I've tried to work with TiVo on THEIR FORUM....and it doesn't help one bit...


----------



## Bierboy

JoeKustra said:


> ....I'm sure they don't wish to seem clueless.


But they do a damn good job of proving it time and again...


----------



## JoeKustra

Bierboy said:


> But they do a damn good job of proving it time and again...


Yeah, I know. I wish it was different. When I was looking for a replacement for my Sony DHG I thought it was time to go to TiVo since they seemed to be the best of the market. It wasn't a money issue, it was a happiness issue. I just like to watch TV and not have to mess with stuff. I don't mind messing with stuff, but then it's not entertainment it's a hassle.

Happy 10k.


----------



## wmcbrine

I just got 20.3.1. The first change I've noticed is a bug fix: It used to be that, when in the HDUI Guide, if I selected a program to record, the image would momentarily pop out of the window to full screen (IIRC), before returning to the Guide. This no longer happens. :up:

Edit: And the transparency problem in Wordsmith seems to be fixed.


----------



## mattack

cherry ghost said:


> You have to do it from "Upcoming" from within "Explore this show", not from "View other showings". You also have to select "Options", not just "Record this episode"


Oh, then that's it. That's lame, since on S3/TivoHD (and S1??), you just select 'record this episode', and it DOES apply your SP settings.

Also, it's lame that you CAN'T View Upcoming Episodes then select a BUNCH of episodes to record, since going left out of the first one you tell to record goes back to the menu that has view upcoming episodes it..

Yeah, I should mention it at forums.tivo.com


----------



## wmcbrine

tomhorsley said:


> So, I'm watching ESPNHD live today when the time for a scheduled recording came up. The screen goes black, the sound goes off, and it never comes back.


That sounds like normal "Blackout" behavior. I doubt it had anything to do with 20.3.1.


----------



## kdmorse

Something has changed with regards to how Tivo's find themselves over the network. Though it probably has no practical applications.

I have a strange setup, four houses linked by VPNs. The VPNs are architected such that the tivos in one house (the root node of the spanning tree) can see all tivos in the three other locations. But, the edge houses can only see the tivos at the root location, they cant see edge to edge. Which is all fine, the VPN doesn't exist for the tivos. But the root node was locked so that the only two houses that are on the same tivo account can see each other, and do MRV/MRS across the VPN.

As tivos have upgraded to 2.3.1, they all started popping up in each others now playing list, even edge to edge. However, none of the tivos that can now magically see each other are on the same account, so no additional MRV/MRS testing is possible.

So, something has changed, but I'm not bored enough to go reading tcpdump traces to find out what....


----------



## ahwman

shamilian said:


> I have had that happen twice in previous versions ( not in this one ).
> There was also no background on the old menus. This is when the tivo forgets how to play video to the screen.
> 
> I think it is recording fine....just does not know how to play it.


Too funny. Well I guess I feel better that I'm not the only one who's seen this. After coming from Windows Media Center, I hoped I could buy a TiVo, set it and forget it. Unfortunately it has been anything but that in my case. I want to love my TiVo's, sadly there are just enough annoying bugs to discourage that...


----------



## Bierboy

JoeKustra said:


> Yeah, I know. I wish it was different. When I was looking for a replacement for my Sony DHG I thought it was time to go to TiVo since they seemed to be the best of the market. It wasn't a money issue, it was a happiness issue. I just like to watch TV and not have to mess with stuff. I don't mind messing with stuff, but then it's not entertainment it's a hassle.
> 
> Happy 10k.


Thanks....yeah the DHG was my first hi def recorder, too. Actually loved it, but the program guide was pretty bad as I recall. Hard to believe I've been around here nine years....must love my TiVos....


----------



## nooneuknow

Update: I just got off the phone with a CSR, who stayed on with me until 30 minutes, past closing. I called, because the TiVo portal email support said they couldn't find my key for TiVo Desktop Plus, or a record of me purchasing it, and was told to call the number to talk to CS.

I had to purchase a key, again, and was promised that the charge would be reversed, and credited back to me. I complained a bit, made a note of how little I bother them, even with the bugs of the new release. I was told that when I received 20.3.1, that they would be fixed. I told him I already had it and that's what I was complaining about. I also made mention of a remote, well out of warranty, that up and left were not working right unless you pressed slightly off in each direction. He spoke with a supervisor, said I'd be receiving a free Glo Remote for being such a long-time, valued customer, and due to the large number of TiVos I owned, and the credit back would be instant, instead of the normal time it would take.

I made sure to make a notation in the support log for the incident, via the TiVo email portal, that "I DO NOT CONSIDER THE MATTER CLOSED OR RESOLVED, UNTIL I SEE THE CREDIT BACK". Now, I'll just have to see what happens.

Was it annoying to wait on hold for 40 minutes? Yes. Was it the proper way to handle it? Yes. Am I satisfied? In the matter of the TD key, we'll see... But, even if the credit doesn't show, I'm getting a free Glo Remote. Will I call back if the credit doesn't appear? Hell yes.

It was worth it, IMHO. It's also all documented, for both TiVo and myself to see.

I made sure to point out that the TCF had a whole thread of issues with the new update. He said he was unaware of it, but would make a notation for his supervisor. The call started off rough, but I treated the CSR respectfully, and he returned the favor. Over all, it rates as one of my better experiences in talking with them.

In regards to all the TiVo-run forum bashing that's been going on: I followed the links, I see what you mean, and agree that their forums aren't very useful. Yet, at the same time, they ARE TiVo's, both sides can see the incompetence, and I feel the proper way to address it is to bring it up with them via their email portal, or by phone, and MAKE SURE AN INCIDENT NUMBER GETS ASSIGNED. Don't stop until you have one. It matters, if you want them to actually do something, or try to do something. Open incident numbers have to be addressed and closed. Having one insures there is a documented trail for what you talk to them about.

I do somewhat regret the minor war that started after I posted that people need to use the proper channels if they wish to get support from TiVo, or make TiVo aware of what this thread is supposed to be about: The 20.3.1 update. At the same time, I don't regret it. Posting here, but not going through proper channels, will only get you the advice, help, and input (which is very valuable) from other members here, but it leaves TiVo "out-of-the-loop", which detracts from the value of the community effort.


----------



## wmcbrine

wmcbrine said:


> Edit: And the transparency problem in Wordsmith seems to be fixed.


...aaaaand they replaced it with a different transparency bug, that shows up in Reversi. <sigh> It's not unplayable, but it's ugly. Why is this so hard for TiVo to get right?

Sadly TiVo doesn't seem to test with Reversi the way they used to, since apps.tv went down.


----------



## JWhites

Bierboy said:


> Because, as someone just posted above, calling in is the most useless way to deal with it. TiVo wants you to because there's no accountability. When TiVo ignores the issues I post on THEIR OWN FORUMS, then anyone who peruses them can see how they ignore their customers. I've tried to work with TiVo on THEIR FORUM....and it doesn't help one bit...


Yeah but they don't do any technical support through their forums though so that's sort of like wasting your time. The agents don't consider their forums a diagnostic outlet in order to bump it to tier 2 and to the engineers. Sure they could put the url into their incident case notes and forward it to be escalated up the chain but there is no guarantee the engineers are going to click the url and read the posts, that is if they even have the ability to view websites. At least with calling in or sending emails there is a way of tracking everything and the information the techs enter into the case notes can be read by the engineers hopefully. The point is, don't complain about problems with the software if no one cares enough to report it to TiVo and stay on top of it, otherwise it's just a huge waste of time.


----------



## JWhites

wmcbrine said:


> I just got 20.3.1. The first change I've noticed is a bug fix: It used to be that, when in the HDUI Guide, if I selected a program to record, the image would momentarily pop out of the window to full screen (IIRC), before returning to the Guide. This no longer happens. :up:
> 
> Edit: And the transparency problem in Wordsmith seems to be fixed.


Hey are you seeing that issue with the program description that has 4 or more lines of text truncating down to 3 (like in the screenshots)? Are you seeing that issue with the network setup diagram showing a Mini instead of a Premiere? I heard a patch was released a few days ago but unknown if that's true, or what was corrected by it.


----------



## wmcbrine

JWhites said:


> Hey are you seeing that issue with the program description that has 4 or more lines of text truncating down to 3 (like in the screenshots)?


Yes. Luckily there aren't many descriptions that long.



> _Are you seeing that issue with the network setup diagram showing a Mini instead of a Premiere? I heard a patch was released a few days ago but unknown if that's true, or what was corrected by it._


Where exactly is that? I don't have much occasion to visit the network setup screens.


----------



## nooneuknow

lessd said:


> *My Support* only shows the last 8 support calls to Feb 2013, how did you get back to 2008 ?


Long answer: No idea on "how". Except, some of the many people in the chain of support, called me "high maintenance" in one breath, then "provider of very valuable feedback on issues they couldn't otherwise resolve" in the next (which I don't think they thought would've expected to end up on the record). There's more I'd share, but it's covered by a NDA, which I'm sure you should be able to guess what that means. So, I'm guessing I either filed issue reports (complaints) both loud enough and long enough, that I got incident numbers back then, while maybe you didn't, or they are keeping all mine (for some reason), beyond the scope of what they would usually keep in the system...

Short answer: I don't know, it just goes all the way back for me, no special trick to it.

Added note: They must have even more than I am able to view, as it usually takes at least 3-5 minutes for anybody who pulls up my info to "read my history", when it gets that far. I always ask "Is it THAT bad?", and they always reply "No, it's all good, you're just very well documented, and there's a lot of history here". Not that I believe there's nothing bad, of course. I really reamed a few people new ones over one particular issue... Also, like I said, in my older post, I saw some pretty negative stuff under one of my incident reports, that a company normally wouldn't let their customer see. But, I don't hold it against them. It's proof they actually report (log) what you call in with, as long as it creates an incident report. I think the key to getting one, is to make sure that if you call, don't get satisfactory results, and they ask you, "Is that all, or is there any more we can assist you with", tell them the truth about how you feel. I bet most people just hang up, and no incident report goes on record, same if you say "No, thanks for nothing a--hole!", and end the call.


----------



## JoeKustra

nooneuknow said:


> [..]
> I also made mention of a remote, well out of warranty, that up and left were not working right unless you pressed slightly off in each direction.
> [..]


It's like the difference between magnetic and true north. I've learned to adapt. I bought a spare that I have never tested. I'll have to try it.


----------



## slowbiscuit

nooneuknow said:


> Posting here, but not going through proper channels, will only get you the advice, help, and input (which is very valuable) from other members here, *but it leaves TiVo "out-of-the-loop"*, which detracts from the value of the community effort.


Because Tivo chooses not to participate (bug-fix wise) in the most valuable forum they have. This thread in particular has a clear OP with the issues found, so it's not like they have to hunt for problems and depend on the random caller.

The only conclusion I can reach is that they want to do the minimum at the lowest cost to get by, because bugs that have been around through multiple updates are never fixed. My guess is the same as others, it's because of heavy outsourcing to folks that don't use the product.


----------



## nooneuknow

slowbiscuit said:


> Because Tivo chooses not to participate (bug-fix wise) in the most valuable forum they have. This thread in particular has a clear OP with the issues found, so it's not like they have to hunt for problems and depend on the random caller.
> 
> The only conclusion I can reach is that they want to do the minimum at the lowest cost to get by, because bugs that have been around through multiple updates are never fixed. My guess is the same as others, it's because of heavy outsourcing to folks that don't use the product.


So, what's your logical/rational thought process here? Just keep posting bugs here, while admitting you truly believe they don't use here has a resource, and not bother to take it directly to them?

I wouldn't expect anything to get fixed, either, going that direction with it!

I'm sure you'll be participating in the (future) thread that will address any future update, which leaves you with new bugs, or unfixed ones, which will achieve what, exactly? All I can see, by your logic, is a place to complain, TiVo-bash, or do whatever you'll do, and it'll server no purpose - going by how you assert your views.

I agree with most of what you say. I can't agree with your *If TiVo wants bug reports, let them come here and get them* reasoning. It sucks to deal with TiVo CS. I get that. But, TiVo made it very clear, both publicly, and via what they say to individuals who reference these forums, that this is NOT the place to submit what you want them to fix/change. That's their choice to make.

If TiVo's OWN systems don't log enough INDIVIDUAL reports of any given problem, they DON'T get addressed, period. Outsourced, or not, TiVo still submits what THEY want changed in the software to somebody. So, somebody (us) has to give it to TiVo. We either do the bug reporting how they want, or it falls back on us, when the next update leaves bugs in that have been in the software for however many updates already.

I've heard TiVoMargret tries to help, but one person can't do it all. There's been others before her, and they got crushed by too many people leaning on them too hard. History DOES repeat itself. I didn't get the point of History as a kid, but as an adult, it makes sense why we needed to study, and learn from, the past.


----------



## tomhorsley

wmcbrine said:


> That sounds like normal "Blackout" behavior. I doubt it had anything to do with 20.3.1.


The "normal" blackouts I get only last a second or two. This blacked out ESPNHD permanently until I rebooted the TiVo. I never had that one happen quite that way before.


----------



## lessd

nooneuknow said:


> There's more I'd share, but it's covered by a NDA, which I'm sure you should be able to guess what that means.
> 
> Before TiVo stopped taking people (*in the NDA program*) that upgraded their TiVo drives I was also covered under the NDA.
> 
> And thanks for what you did share.


----------



## nooneuknow

lessd said:


> Before TiVo stopped taking people (*in the NDA program*) that upgraded their TiVo drives I was also covered under the NDA.
> 
> And thanks for what you did share.


They have made exceptions, in the past. I think they were having difficulty getting enough participants, or something. You can always put the stock one back in, first, if you really want in.

Was that actually a "Thank You", or was it sarcasm. I've been having a hard time telling the difference sometimes.


----------



## nooneuknow

JoeKustra said:


> It's like the difference between magnetic and true north. I've learned to adapt. I bought a spare that I have never tested. I'll have to try it.


It's a bit difficult to adapt when it isn't the same for down and right. The stock remotes are quite a different design from the glo remotes. I've taken both types apart to clean the contacts and check for any misalignment during manufacturing, slippage, damage, etc.


----------



## slowbiscuit

nooneuknow said:


> So, what's your logical/rational thought process here? Just keep posting bugs here, while admitting you truly believe they don't use here has a resource, and not bother to take it directly to them?
> 
> I wouldn't expect anything to get fixed, either, going that direction with it!


It's just my opinion based on everything I've seen here about their lack of follow-up on issues with their published reporting methods. No need to go on a rant about it. I really don't care what route Tivo takes to fix bugs as long as they're fixed, but I have no confidence that any method gets results based on that history you're so proud of learning from.


----------



## wmcbrine

tomhorsley said:


> The "normal" blackouts I get only last a second or two.


A blackout is supposed to last the length of the program. This only happens on the sports channels, when a local channel has rights to the same game (and not always then). The fact that it might happen is indicated by the word "Blackout" in the Info. Have you really never encountered this before?


----------



## nooneuknow

slowbiscuit said:


> It's just my opinion based on everything I've seen here about their lack of follow-up on issues with their published reporting methods. No need to go on a rant about it. I really don't care what route Tivo takes to fix bugs as long as they're fixed, but I have no confidence that any method gets results based on that history you're so proud of learning from.


Honestly, the "rant" was for everybody's benefit. I didn't have you personally in my crosshairs to take a cheap shot at, FWIW. I don't really support TiVo's policies, but I know them. They suck, and we probably aren't going to see them change for the better any time soon, if at all... Peace


----------



## tomhorsley

wmcbrine said:


> A blackout is supposed to last the length of the program. This only happens on the sports channels, when a local channel has rights to the same game (and not always then). The fact that it might happen is indicated by the word "Blackout" in the Info. Have you really never encountered this before?


Oh, that kind of blackout . I thought you meant the way the TiVo always drops sound and picture just as a recording starts. This was definitely not a blacked out sports event, I was just trying to record PTI to skip past the commercials when watching it later.


----------



## JWhites

wmcbrine said:


> Yes. Luckily there aren't many descriptions that long.


I watch a lot of TV, especially CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, as well as a huge majority of cable channels and so forth and 99% of the time I'm seeing info 4 and 5 and even 6 lines deep.



wmcbrine said:


> Where exactly is that? I don't have much occasion to visit the network setup screens.


With the network connection disconnected such as Ethernet, go under Settings, then Network then with the Network connection details saying "no connection". go to Change Network Settings. On the Network Connection Required screen, choose Continue and you'll see the Choose Network Hookup screen.


----------



## JWhites

slowbiscuit said:


> Because Tivo chooses not to participate (bug-fix wise) in the most valuable forum they have. This thread in particular has a clear OP with the issues found, so it's not like they have to hunt for problems and depend on the random caller.
> 
> The only conclusion I can reach is that they want to do the minimum at the lowest cost to get by, because bugs that have been around through multiple updates are never fixed. My guess is the same as others, it's because of heavy outsourcing to folks that don't use the product.


Dunno about you but every time I call in it's always from the same call center on the West Coast all of whom are American.

Regarding the bugs that have been there through multiple updates is probably because they weren't reported by enough people for the engineers to be made aware of it. I do agree that I wonder why the engineers haven't noticed these bugs on their own TiVo's at home but for all we know they have their own "unlocked" developer software OS and don't use the public version.


----------



## tomhorsley

Grrr... Aargh! Now that I have 20.3, the "this channel is not available" message crops up infinitely more often. It may indeed be due to a cable card microcode bug, but it is obvious that the way the TiVo talks to the cable card in 20.3 now triggers the bug much more frequently. I only hope comcast really does roll out the new microcode sometime soon.


----------



## ahwman

tomhorsley said:


> Grrr... Aargh! Now that I have 20.3, the "this channel is not available" message crops up infinitely more often. It may indeed be due to a cable card microcode bug, but it is obvious that the way the TiVo talks to the cable card in 20.3 now triggers the bug much more frequently. I only hope comcast really does roll out the new microcode sometime soon.


I've noticed the exact same thing on both of my XL4's in regards to 20.3. Prior to this update it was prevalent only on SDV channels. Now, it happens on all channels which requires a reboot to fix. I spoke with a supervisor today and he suggested clearing program/guide data in the help settings as he thought it may be a corrupt channel map. I did this on both of my TiVo's, however I'm skeptical it will fix the issue but time will tell.


----------



## mattack

CoxInPHX said:


> I would like to update the first post in this thread, so please list the following observations you have regarding the 20.3.1 SW Update.
> 
> Please use brief, succinct statements, and links to threads or posts of observations and/or previous bugs
> 
> 
> Bugs - Fixed
> Fixed - Minimum File Size Bug (of 2.05GB/.5Hr-SD / 4.1GB/.5Hr-HD) - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=500526





Wait, kmttg still shows me 2.05 GB for shows that definitely aren't 2.05 GB. I didn't check for sure what the Tivo UI told me, but its "delete stuff way too early" issue IS fixed for me, which *I thought* was related to this same false 2.05 GB issue. (If "half" of it thought the files were way too big, it would delete them too early.. but then the other "half" could still record..)


----------



## moyekj

mattack said:


> Wait, kmttg still shows me 2.05 GB for shows that definitely aren't 2.05 GB. I didn't check for sure what the Tivo UI told me, but its "delete stuff way too early" issue IS fixed for me, which *I thought* was related to this same false 2.05 GB issue. (If "half" of it thought the files were way too big, it would delete them too early.. but then the other "half" could still record..)


 Perhaps only *NEW* recordings with new software under 2GB will have the correct metadata used in TTG?


----------



## lessd

nooneuknow said:


> They have made exceptions, in the past. I think they were having difficulty getting enough participants, or something. You can always put the stock one back in, first, if you really want in.
> 
> Was that actually a "Thank You", or was it sarcasm. I've been having a hard time telling the difference sometimes.


No sarcasm at all, I did appreciate your response.


----------



## slowbiscuit

ahwman said:


> I've noticed the exact same thing on both of my XL4's in regards to 20.3. Prior to this update it was prevalent only on SDV channels. Now, it happens on all channels which requires a reboot to fix. I spoke with a supervisor today and he suggested clearing program/guide data in the help settings as he thought it may be a corrupt channel map. I did this on both of my TiVo's, however I'm skeptical it will fix the issue but time will tell.


I thought the standard workaround was to remove and reinsert the card. I haven't seen this issue in many months on my Elite, but I'm on Comcast with no TAs.


----------



## JoeKustra

moyekj said:


> Perhaps only *NEW* recordings with new software under 2GB will have the correct metadata used in TTG?


Good point since the Info data for .5 hour of SD shows 0.78GB as it should.


----------



## Chuckboozer

Since I received my software update, my OTA tuner has been acting strange....shows a signal strength reading of 42 on all digital channels.....any idea how to fix?


----------



## morac

Chuckboozer said:


> Since I received my software update, my OTA tuner has been acting strange....shows a signal strength reading of 42 on all digital channels.....any idea how to fix?


The new update seems to have a bug where the DVR diagnostics screen stops updating. Rebooting appears to fix it temporarily.


----------



## Chuckboozer

morac said:


> The new update seems to have a bug where the DVR diagnostics screen stops updating. Rebooting appears to fix it temporarily.


Thanks for the reply...I re-booted and now it shows "0" signal quality even though I have a digital signal lock....oh well


----------



## sharkster

Looks like my bdrm Tivo has updated overnight. I wouldn't have even noticed except that I use the little clock on that one and it was gone this morning (whenever it is restarted you have to re-do that little clock). 

All I've noticed so far were some changes in the 'system information' screens. Fingers crossed!


----------



## Mister B

MeInDallas said:


> I noticed something similar to the signal level youre talking about. When I look into the diagnostic screen to check my signal levels, now it always shows around 94 no matter what I change the channels to. Before it would show anywhere between the mid 80's to the high 90's depending on the channel, but now it just seems to peg right around 94 all the time. Even after I rebooted and put it on different channels its doing the same thing. Very odd.


I just reconnected my Premiere after almost 2 years of storage. I am OTA only and my primary concern was reception problems with this unit. That is why I had gone back to using the TCD 652160. At first I was pleased with a reading of 94 on a known weak channel, but soon became suspicious that every channel shows a signal level of 94. Actually sometimes it flashes 61 then goes to 94. And yes, the diagnostics screen is the same. This really is a problems for OTA users.


----------



## nooneuknow

JWhites said:


> I do agree that I wonder why the engineers haven't noticed these bugs on their own TiVo's at home but for all we know they have their own "unlocked" developer software OS and don't use the public version.


Since I started skimming the TiVo logs after a new update is deployed, and/or after using KS52 to do an "emergency software re-install", I've noticed an entry that caught my attention:

"Searching for superuser board - not found"

I don't know if that means the whole main board, or a daughter board, but it seems to prove that the engineers, and who knows how many other people that work for TiVo, have something that we don't.

To me, that would imply that it's very possible their units could skew the results. It really should be a requirement that those who have the "superuser" board, should also have a unit that doesn't have it, as well.


----------



## atmuscarella

Mister B said:


> I just reconnected my Premiere after almost 2 years of storage. I am OTA only and my primary concern was reception problems with this unit. That is why I had gone back to using the TCD 652160. At first I was pleased with a reading of 94 on a known weak channel, but soon became suspicious that every channel shows a signal level of 94. Actually sometimes it flashes 61 then goes to 94. And yes, the diagnostics screen is the same. This really is a problems for OTA users.


I am OTA only also and I am not seeing this on my Premiere (yes I have this update). I get channels on 6 different frequencies and just check signal strength, they ranged from 48 to 67 with all frequencies being different. The 2 channels showing in DVR diagnostics where showing about the same as they were in the signal strength area.


----------



## L David Matheny

Mister B said:


> I just reconnected my Premiere after almost 2 years of storage. I am OTA only and my primary concern was reception problems with this unit. That is why I had gone back to using the TCD 652160. At first I was pleased with a reading of 94 on a known weak channel, but soon became suspicious that every channel shows a signal level of 94. Actually sometimes it flashes 61 then goes to 94. And yes, the diagnostics screen is the same. This really is a problems for OTA users.


I'm OTA-only and currently using the SDUI. I was not on the priority list. My Premiere rebooted to install the 20.3.1 update about 7:00am yesterday morning. My DVR Diagnostics screen appears to be working properly. I haven't used the updated software enough yet to notice any changes.


----------



## Mister B

atmuscarella said:


> I am OTA only also and I am not seeing this on my Premiere (yes I have this update). I get channels on 6 different frequencies and just check signal strength, they ranged from 48 to 67 with all frequencies being different. The 2 channels showing in DVR diagnostics where showing about the same as they were in the signal strength area.


I wonder what could be different in our set-ups? I just put in 18db of attenuation and still every channel reads 94, although some obviously start to break up at that level. I have also e-mailed a question to Tivo asking when and if they are going to fix this problem or should I once again revert to using the Tivo HD.


----------



## Mister B

L David Matheny said:


> I'm OTA-only and currently using the SDUI. I was not on the priority list. My Premiere rebooted to install the 20.3.1 update about 7:00am yesterday morning. My DVR Diagnostics screen appears to be working properly. I haven't used the updated software enough yet to notice any changes.


I tried switching to SD Menus, still all channels 94 signal strength.


----------



## atmuscarella

Mister B said:


> I wonder what could be different in our set-ups? I just put in 18db of attenuation and still every channel reads 94, although some obviously start to break up at that level. I have also e-mailed a question to Tivo asking when and if they are going to fix this problem or should I once again revert to using the Tivo HD.


Sounds like some bug that doesn't effect all units. Not sure it matters what the signal strength reads when it comes to the issues the Premiere have with OTA reception problems - mine is still worse then my Original Series 3 or TiVo HD, I am using variable attenuation device and that does help some.


----------



## sharkster

Well, my second Tivo also updated so I continue to have my fingers crossed as I'm all in now. *scary* ha!

I haven't noticed anything different (sure would be nice to know what has changed, except for cosmetic stuff), except that they are a little slow when you click on something after going in to the Tivo menus. But I've always seen that, even with my old Series 2 machines, after any restart. Then it gets back to normal pretty quickly. Hopefully, that is all this is.


----------



## lpwcomp

It's probable that initial testing is done using emulators. However, final testing should be performed on the actual platform by an independent team. I suspect that it is this final test phase that is deficient and may have been entirely eliminated in the pursuit of "cost savings". This is why I think reporting these problems to TiVo is unlikely to accomplish much. While it _*may*_ get those specific problems fixed, unless and until they fix their (IMHO) deeply flawed s/w development and testing process, they are going to continue to produce a flawed product.

Having said that, at least some of the problems encountered could be the result of things over which they have no control - bad CableCARDs, TA's or Cable providers actions, either deliberate or through incompetence. The thing is that since obvious problems show up in areas over which they do have total control, TiVo lacks credibility when they point the finger elsewhere.


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> It's probable that initial testing is done using emulators. However, final testing should be performed on the actual platform by an independent team. I suspect that it is this final test phase that is deficient and may have been entirely eliminated in the pursuit of "cost savings". This is why I think reporting these problems to TiVo is unlikely to accomplish much. While it _*may*_ get those specific problems fixed, unless and until they fix their (IMHO) deeply flawed s/w development and testing process, they are going to continue to produce a flawed product.
> 
> Having said that, at least some of the problems encountered could be the result of things over which they have no control - bad CableCARDs, TA's or Cable providers actions, either deliberate or through incompetence. The thing is that since obvious problems show up in areas over which they do have total control, TiVo lacks credibility when they point the finger elsewhere.


Agreed, for the most part. There's a bit of speculation involved that's makes saying so, uneasy. But, I feel it's reasonable speculation, since TiVo is so secretive, and/or deceptive, when it comes to how they do things, and why.


----------



## JWhites

I'm still praying they fix the program description truncation since that was the biggest and most noticeable bug I experienced. I totally agree with what you said lpwcomp, and I wish TiVo knew what the heck they are doing when it comes to quality control and beta testing.


----------



## Bierboy

JWhites said:


> I'm still praying they fix the program description truncation since that was the biggest and most noticeable bug I experienced....


I agree....it's a real PITA to have to hit info then select to get the full program description...


----------



## JoeKustra

I see they learned from last time: the MLB in My Shows can be turned off in Video Providers.


----------



## Bierboy

JoeKustra said:


> I see they learned from last time: the MLB in My Shows can be turned off in Video Providers.


Heh....that was the first thing I did when I got the update....


----------



## nooneuknow

JoeKustra said:


> I see they learned from last time: the MLB in My Shows can be turned off in Video Providers.


Of all the sports, in all the world, TiVo paid somebody to integrate MLB.TV into the system, and it took HOW LONG, before they could be bothered to put in the newer Netflix UI, when they finally did?

IMHO, IT'S FURTHER PROOF that TiVo has no idea WHAT people really want. NO OFFENSE TO THOSE WHO LIKE/LOVE BASEBALL, INTENDED!!! It could've been added due to Baseball fans hounding TiVo, but that's just purely a speculative guess...

Just imagine if the time, resources, and money, to do that went into that, were used, instead, to fix bugs, or improve what is already BARELY there...

Anybody ever feel that those TiVo Advisor surveys just go into a black hole, and aren't worth the time to complete? I'm considering resigning from that mailing list...

I too, nixed MLB.TV from My Video Providers, as well as everybody else in the house. That'd be three people, who watch Football, and car racing, if the former isn't on.


----------



## Mister B

Mister B said:


> I just reconnected my Premiere after almost 2 years of storage. I am OTA only and my primary concern was reception problems with this unit. That is why I had gone back to using the TCD 652160. At first I was pleased with a reading of 94 on a known weak channel, but soon became suspicious that every channel shows a signal level of 94. Actually sometimes it flashes 61 then goes to 94. And yes, the diagnostics screen is the same. This really is a problems for OTA users.


After trying to diagnose this problem all day and finding the same old problem with the Premiere having drop-outs on channels that are rock solid either on the TV itself or the old TCD652160, I just called Tivo and had them switch my service back to the "HD". I just hope the old unit holds out a few more years. I see there are some well know repair sites if it should go bad. The situation is not ideal but there are few choices to record in HD from OTA and the others are much more error prone than this.


----------



## JWhites

Well the update finally bit me in the butt and it's back. Seeing the same problems as I did the first time around. It's clearly a software issue and not a hardware issue and clearly was not a fluke with my two original boxes. Looks like I'm gonna have to switch to SDUI for now  Really disappointed.


----------



## JWhites

Bierboy said:


> I agree....it's a real PITA to have to hit info then select to get the full program description...


For you maybe not, but the point is I shouldn't have to if just hitting the Info button used to work before.


----------



## Bierboy

JWhites said:


> For you maybe not, but the point is I shouldn't have to if just hitting the Info button used to work before.


 I'm agreeing with you.....lighten up.


----------



## compnurd

JWhites said:


> I'm still praying they fix the program description truncation since that was the biggest and most noticeable bug I experienced. I totally agree with what you said lpwcomp, and I wish TiVo knew what the heck they are doing when it comes to quality control and beta testing.


I still have yet to find a show that has enough lines to truncate


----------



## Bierboy

compnurd said:


> I still have yet to find a show that has enough lines to truncate


Then you're not looking hard enough. I've found PLENTY, and it's getting damn frustrating...


----------



## sharkster

Bierboy said:


> Heh....that was the first thing I did when I got the update....


+1 (MLB)

I just saw that appear last night on both of my Tivos. WTH? Then I remembered that I could uncheck it and make it go away.

So far, only one day in with the update on my Premieres, the only thing I'm noticing different is that there is still some slowness and twice when I deleted a show, after watching, it didn't delete and I had to do it again. Weird that.


----------



## JWhites

Bierboy said:


> I'm agreeing with you.....lighten up.


Oh ok sorry. Still sore from both the fact that the update got me and from everyone on this thread trivializing that truncation issue when I first brought it up as seen below.


----------



## compnurd

Bierboy said:


> Then you're not looking hard enough. I've found PLENTY, and it's getting damn frustrating...


i spent one evening purposing going through every channel and still didnt see it... then again i normally have some clue as to what I want to watch when i am looking in the guide so i dont need to read 6 lines of crap to decide or not to watch it


----------



## JWhites

Well got off the phone with TiVo so they can update the case notes when the update hit me again as per their request and was told they are actively aware of this thread, have a team put together specifically for monitoring this thread, and are finding all of this useful. It's just too bad we haven't seen any forward movement by the engineering team in getting anything fixed so far.


----------



## JWhites

Bierboy said:


> Then you're not looking hard enough. I've found PLENTY, and it's getting damn frustrating...


As I've said before, it's what pushed me over the edge. I wasn't always like this. When I reported it into Tivo initialize, their response was to use the SDUI in the meantime since it doesn't seem to be affected. This feels like a set backwards.


----------



## compnurd

JWhites said:


> Well got off the phone with TiVo so they can update the case notes when the update hit me again as per their request and was told they are actively aware of this thread, have a team put together specifically for monitoring this thread, and are finding all of this useful. It's just too bad we haven't seen any forward movement by the engineering team in getting anything fixed so far.


and Immm the leprechaun(said in mike myers voice)


----------



## JWhites

compnurd said:


> i spent one evening purposing going through every channel and still didnt see it... then again i normally have some clue as to what I want to watch when i am looking in the guide so i dont need to read 6 lines of crap to decide or not to watch it


This is generally found during infomercials (because they have a whole bunch of text) or primetime programming and downloaded content from CNET. Rookie Blue for example, Chicago Fire, Modern Family, The Middle, Hawaii 5-0, and Nashville to name a few others.


----------



## L David Matheny

I've noticed one small oddity (OTA-only, currently SDUI): When I tune to a station with no signal, the message now reads "Searching for signal on this *%s* channel..." where it used to read "*antenna* channel". Something got garbled.


----------



## WO312

L David Matheny said:


> I've noticed one small oddity (OTA-only, currently SDUI): When I tune to a station with no signal, the message now reads "Searching for signal on this *%s* channel..." where it used to read "*antenna* channel". Something got garbled.


Maybe they meant to say *pos* channel.


----------



## nooneuknow

sharkster said:


> +1 (MLB)
> 
> I just saw that appear last night on both of my Tivos. WTH? Then I remembered that I could uncheck it and make it go away.
> 
> So far, only one day in with the update on my Premieres, the only thing I'm noticing different is that there is still some slowness and twice when I deleted a show, after watching, it didn't delete and I had to do it again. Weird that.


Reported before, and conformed many times. But, the more people who confirm, the better, for the overall effort here. Thanks for reporting in.


----------



## nooneuknow

JWhites said:


> Oh ok sorry. Still sore from both the fact that the update got me and from everyone on this thread trivializing that truncation issue when I first brought it up as seen below.


I hear/feel you on that sentiment. While it hasn't been a bother for me (I rarely even read anything besides the first air date), that doesn't make it any less important. I get the same soreness, when people with the Premiere 4-tuner platform pop in and report in ways that amount to trivializing issues, that they aren't affected with, but I'm running all 2-tuner platform units, and am affected.

That's why I keep pressing for it to be standard procedure to report what model of Premiere people are using, that they use to base their feedback on.


----------



## JWhites

nooneuknow said:


> I hear/feel you on that sentiment. While it hasn't been a bother for me (I rarely even read anything besides the first air date), that doesn't make it any less important. I get the same soreness, when people with the Premiere 4-tuner platform pop in and report in ways that amount to trivializing issues, that they aren't affected with, but I'm running all 2-tuner platform units, and am affected.
> 
> That's why I keep pressing for it to be standard procedure to report what model of Premiere people are using, that they use to base their feedback on.


Well if it makes you feel any better it's affecting both my 4 tuner and both my 2 tuner models. I'm just so tired of the constant problems that never get fixed. I mean what sucks is that as far as I noticed there wasn't any problems with the 20.2.2 software so for this update to cause these problems sucks.


----------



## JoeKustra

nooneuknow said:


> That's why I keep pressing for it to be standard procedure to report what model of Premiere people are using, that they use to base their feedback on.


Check my location. OK?


----------



## nooneuknow

JoeKustra said:


> Check my location. OK?


Point taken. I meant for ALL who post here. It wasn't aimed at you, individually. Most people don't include their equipment info in their profile.


----------



## nooneuknow

JWhites said:


> Well if it makes you feel any better it's affecting both my 4 tuner and both my 2 tuner models. I'm just so tired of the constant problems that never get fixed. I mean what sucks is that as far as I noticed there wasn't any problems with the 20.2.2 software so for this update to cause these problems sucks.


Any supportive feedback, versus sarcasm, heckling, or statements that help nobody, does make me feel better.

I fully agree with your assessment of the situation, and thank you for being specific. There are a few things that people call "fixed", but, for me, they aren't worth the new, or re-introduced, issues that came along for the ride.

I'd much rather have not received the update, and I'm going to see if I can get TiVo to block this update for my units. If they will, then I'll drop in re-imaged drives, and just run the prior release. I don't have high hopes, since TiVo is in the final rollout phase, with few units left without the update. They don't like having people on different releases, once a rollout has finished. I know this from past experience, begging them to allow me to run a version prior to 11.0k on my HD units (due to EXTREME issues that make me regret paying for lifetime service on units that I don't use unless I have to, since they don't work right since they fixed the "grey screen" issue, which I never had a problem with, but now have extreme audio issues, introduced by their update/fix).


----------



## CoxInPHX

JWhites said:


> Well if it makes you feel any better it's affecting both my 4 tuner and both my 2 tuner models. I'm just so tired of the constant problems that never get fixed. I mean what sucks is that as far as *I noticed there wasn't any problems with the 20.2.2* software so for this update to cause these problems sucks.


I would say the Minimum File Size issue and prematurely deleting recordings was a huge problem that needed addressed ASAP.


----------



## nooneuknow

CoxInPHX said:


> I would say the Minimum File Size issue and prematurely deleting recordings was a huge problem that needed addressed ASAP.


The premature deleting of recordings didn't affect everybody. However, I have one two-tuner TCD746320, out of four, that STARTED doing it AFTER the update. I have yet to find any solid reason for WHY. It gets to ~60% drive capacity, then behaves as if it were at 100%. I can understand why those afflicted with this issue are happy about this update, if it resolved the issue for them.

I'll be doing some drive-swapping and re-imaging to try and figure out the anomaly for it. Can ANYBODY else affected by the issue described, please report a brief description (unless you feel you have information not already provided in this thread), complete with the model of the afflicted units, whether the hard drive has been changed-out (with specifics), and please speak up if you have more than one, and if there were any that weren't afflicted, and if there's any plausible reasons you can state for behaving differently, please.

This seems to be a model-specific issue, with my one unit being the only one that stands alone/apart from being model-specific.


----------



## mrsean

I'm confused is this the "Spring Update" or a minor update beforehand?


----------



## crxssi

mrsean said:


> I'm confused is this the "Spring Update" or a minor update beforehand?


TiVo doesn't do minor updates just prior to large updates. (At least, that has not been their pattern).

So yes, this was the "Spring Update". Woopie!


----------



## lpwcomp

Anyone else seen this problem?


----------



## phiggins

I just lost all my analog OTA channels and it's looking like it's due to this update. Earlier this week, I got our analog OTA channels just fine on our Premiere. Now, I get the message "Searching for a signal on this channel (V52)..." on each of the analog OTA channels.

My antenna is also connected to my TV and I can get all the analog OTA channels just fine on the TV, but not on the Premiere.

I called TiVo Support today to report the problem. The really annoying thing is that the representative said they have no knowledge of the 20.3.1 update, nor any problems with it. He said there's no way for him to report that I'm having a problem. Instead, he said that I needed to find "a specialist" who can address signal strength issues and that there's nothing TiVo can do to help me.

But from reading this forum, I know I'm not the only one having problems with analog OTA channels and this update. (I also know that using the signal strength numbers in the diagnostics is unreliable, given this update.)

So, now that I've done the "proper" thing and called TiVo, what do I do now? Do I just have to learn to live without Fox and PBS?


----------



## JoeKustra

phiggins said:


> I just lost all my analog OTA channels and it's looking like it's due to this update.
> 
> So, now that I've done the "proper" thing and called TiVo, what do I do now? Do I just have to learn to live without Fox and PBS?


After posting on the TiVo support forum I think a response there is your best bet. I posted on AVSForum's thread a link to this thread. Good luck.


----------



## phiggins

JoeKustra said:


> After posting on the TiVo support forum I think a response there is your best bet.


Thanks. I just posted something there. We'll see what happens...


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> Anyone else seen this problem?


Yes, I have. On top of that, programs I have set to "Keep until I delete" lost that designation after this update. I spent hours setting them back, did a KS52 - emergency software reinstall, and the same thing happened, AGAIN.


----------



## nooneuknow

phiggins said:


> I just lost all my analog OTA channels and it's looking like it's due to this update. Earlier this week, I got our analog OTA channels just fine on our Premiere. Now, I get the message "Searching for a signal on this channel (V52)..." on each of the analog OTA channels.
> 
> My antenna is also connected to my TV and I can get all the analog OTA channels just fine on the TV, but not on the Premiere.
> 
> I called TiVo Support today to report the problem. The really annoying thing is that the representative said they have no knowledge of the 20.3.1 update, nor any problems with it. He said there's no way for him to report that I'm having a problem. Instead, he said that I needed to find "a specialist" who can address signal strength issues and that there's nothing TiVo can do to help me.
> 
> But from reading this forum, I know I'm not the only one having problems with analog OTA channels and this update. (I also know that using the signal strength numbers in the diagnostics is unreliable, given this update.)
> 
> So, now that I've done the "proper" thing and called TiVo, what do I do now? Do I just have to learn to live without Fox and PBS?


TiVo ROUTINELY LIES to their customers, to make them feel they are the ONLY ones reporting an issue. You NEED to argue that you want an "incident report" logged, later verify on your online account support area "My Support" that it's in your account records, and if they close it, call back and ream them out for not resolving it (or giving it an incident number), and demand the matter to be escalated, or at minimum demand they give you an incident report number.

DON'T GIVE UP. It's what they want you to do. This is an pristine example of TiVo not handling matters properly, on their end, even when you play by their rules/policy, when it comes to reporting DIRECTLY to them.

10,000 people may have called in for the same problem, but without an incident report logged for every report, they get to EASILY sweep it under the rug, and lie to you. Even if they open an incident report, then close it, without helping you, you can update the report yourself, which re-opens it. It sucks, but you MUST be assertive, and keep contacting them. If you do this, they generally will "escalate" the issue to another higher-tier team, which, if you keep at it will get you to TiVo Executive Relations, which is as high as you can go. They tend to try to resolve your issue, at that level, or they'll offer up a hard to pass up opportunity, like a credit to your account, or a deal on a newer unit, which will be better than you'll ever see in a promotion.


----------



## JWhites

nooneuknow said:


> Any supportive feedback, versus sarcasm, heckling, or statements that help nobody, does make me feel better.
> 
> I fully agree with your assessment of the situation, and thank you for being specific. There are a few things that people call "fixed", but, for me, they aren't worth the new, or re-introduced, issues that came along for the ride.
> 
> I'd much rather have not received the update, and I'm going to see if I can get TiVo to block this update for my units. If they will, then I'll drop in re-imaged drives, and just run the prior release. I don't have high hopes, since TiVo is in the final rollout phase, with few units left without the update. They don't like having people on different releases, once a rollout has finished. I know this from past experience, begging them to allow me to run a version prior to 11.0k on my HD units (due to EXTREME issues that make me regret paying for lifetime service on units that I don't use unless I have to, since they don't work right since they fixed the "grey screen" issue, which I never had a problem with, but now have extreme audio issues, introduced by their update/fix).


There was no sarcasm or heckling intended in my post and I apologize if it came across that way.

Regarding blocking of the update. I was told it was possible by the TSN being put on a list of dialup users who aren't technologically able to receive the update. However after speaking to several tier 2 supervisors, they both agreed that they wouldn't approve the block because according to them "the block won't work on a broadband connected TiVo. It would simply ignore the block and download it anyway" which of course is _not_ what a customer wants to hear when facing this travesty of an update. Maybe you'll have better luck since its already too late for me. The Tier 2 supervisor I first spoke to was named Jacob. The other supervisor didn't speak to me first hand but through another technician via his notes.


----------



## JWhites

CoxInPHX said:


> I would say the Minimum File Size issue and prematurely deleting recordings was a huge problem that needed addressed ASAP.


Like I said I never experienced those problems since I only watch and record HD channels thus I didn't consider them as needing to be fixed or them being a big problem. Sorry


----------



## JWhites

I was watching a recording of The Tonight Show on Sunday and suddenly the screen froze. I was able to access and move around the menus but when I went back to live TV all I received was a black screen and I think a "channel cannot be found" v52 message. I did a reboot and it's been fine since. What's weird is that the SD menus I went through to access the "help" menu had an black background with white text instead of the regular blue one. I'm on Comcast with no TA and SDV or anything crazy like that, just MoCA.


----------



## nooneuknow

JWhites said:


> There was no sarcasm or heckling intended in my post and I apologize if it came across that way.


Not at all. I was saying that your response was the opposite of all that, which there is just way too much of going on around here.



> Regarding blocking of the update. I was told it was possible by the TSN being put on a list of dialup users who aren't technologically able to receive the update. However after speaking to several tier 2 supervisors, they both agreed that they wouldn't approve the block because according to them "the block won't work on a broadband connected TiVo. It would simply ignore the block and download it anyway" which of course is _not_ what a customer wants to hear when facing this travesty of an update. Maybe you'll have better luck since its already too late for me. The Tier 2 supervisor I first spoke to was named Jacob. The other supervisor didn't speak to me first hand but through another technician via his notes.


Good to know, thanks for taking the time to share that.


----------



## morac

JWhites said:


> .Regarding blocking of the update. I was told it was possible by the TSN being put on a list of dialup users who aren't technologically able to receive the update. However after speaking to several tier 2 supervisors, they both agreed that they wouldn't approve the block because according to them "the block won't work on a broadband connected TiVo. It would simply ignore the block and download it anyway" which of course is not what a customer wants to hear when facing this travesty of an update. Maybe you'll have better luck since its already too late for me. The Tier 2 supervisor I first spoke to was named Jacob. The other supervisor didn't speak to me first hand but through another technician via his notes.


None of what they told you is correct anyway since even dial up users will get the update. It will just take longer to download.


----------



## slowbiscuit

I've seen regular occurrences now where resuming playback of an ongoing recording gets you a black screen until you do anything with trick play, then it plays fine. Never saw this before 20.3.1, happened twice on the Elite yesterday when flipping around from one race to another. Also noticed that audio doesn't start until a couple of seconds after video does, this happens all the time.


----------



## nooneuknow

slowbiscuit said:


> I've seen regular occurrences now where resuming playback of an ongoing recording gets you a black screen until you do anything with trick play, then it plays fine. Never saw this before 20.3.1, happened twice on the Elite yesterday when flipping around from one race to another. Also noticed that audio doesn't start until a couple of seconds after video does, this happens all the time.


Already reported, complete with many "me too" replies. But, the more that report any issue, the better.


----------



## bmgoodman

When I read this thread, I'm increasingly glad that I still have only pre-Premiere units! I don't think I *want* the "updated" software Tivo has been churning out the past few years.

And I still remember when I used to sign up for early updates. Sigh.


----------



## Loach

Both my Minis are on 20.3.1, while my P4 is still on the old software. While watching live TV on my family room Mini, I have been experiencing audio drop-outs of about 1 second. It seems to happen 3 or 4 times an hour. Video is unaffected. 

I have not noticed this with playback of a recorded show - only live TV. I also haven't noticed it with the bedroom Mini, but I usually only watch recorded programming on that and when I do watch live TV, it's usually sports with the sound down so far I may not notice an audio drop-out.


----------



## Bierboy

nooneuknow said:


> TiVo ROUTINELY LIES to their customers....


Oh for crying out loud....you want to come back to the REAL WORLD sometime?


----------



## TiVoJimmy

C501 error in HDUI menus was not fixed with this update. Hopefully a patch will come out, but not holding my breath.


----------



## chrispitude

In the last couple days, I have noticed two problems occurring frequently. First, the background of the SD "My Shows" menu is often solid black after watching a prerecorded show then returning to the menu. Two taps of the TiVo button restores the normal blue background. Second, I am getting frequent cases of no-audio until I hit the 7-second rewind button. I'm not sure why this is happening all of a sudden. I'll force a reboot and see if it was some sort of transient system glitch.


----------



## nooneuknow

Bierboy said:


> Oh for crying out loud....you want to come back to the REAL WORLD sometime?


TiVo does routinely lie to their customers, or state things that are untrue, which could be more incompetence, or what they have been told do say or do, than deliberately lying, in some cases.

There's far too many people who have posted all over the forums, who share my experiences, that back up my point-of-view on the matter.

It's far harder to find posts that back up your cloaked attack, that basically implies I'm a liar, and implies that TiVo is truthful to their customers, and don't provide completely inaccurate, and/or untrue disinformation to their customers.

I'm content with saying the burden of proof, is on you, and even then, that means you being fully truthful, as well.

You're one of those flame-baiting people, who I usually would just let your post speak for itself, and leave it be, letting others decide if they want to address what you post. However, I'll give you this one indulgence, and leave it at that. It is what it is. I routinely remove myself from engaging with people who are always diluting the pertinent content of threads, with either direct, or cloaked, attacks, only looking for a fight. Let's see how many people agree with you. I'll be sitting on the sidelines from here on out.


----------



## JWhites

You know what I noticed? With how the program titles have larger text now in the info bar, there seems to be room for only one or two more tuners with program titles.


----------



## NorthAlabama

ok, this happened to me tonight, 20.3.1, only a few channels have error "Problem with the signal on this channel. Trying again. (V53)", most other channels are fine. i'm with comcast, no sdv or ta.

removed m-card, unplugged, booted w/o card, reinserted m-card, channels restored. this will get old quickly if it happens regularly.


----------



## JWhites

nooneuknow said:


> Not at all. I was saying that your response was the opposite of all that, which there is just way too much of going on around here.


ok good 


nooneuknow said:


> Good to know, thanks for taking the time to share that.


I wish it was info in the opposite direction though.


----------



## JWhites

morac said:


> None of what they told you is correct anyway since even dial up users will get the update. It will just take longer to download.


They told me that it was impossible for dialup users to get it for that exact reason that it would take days to update, which would tie up the phone line and prevent program info from being downloaded.


----------



## compnurd

JWhites said:


> You know what I noticed? With how the program titles have larger text now in the info bar, there seems to be room for only one or two more tuners with program titles.


That was noted about 34 pages ago before this thread went sideways


----------



## morac

JWhites said:


> They told me that it was impossible for dialup users to get it for that exact reason that it would take days to update, which would tie up the phone line and prevent program info from being downloaded.


Prior to implementing broadband, dial up was the way to get updates. It took about 4 or 5 hours to download (updates are less than 100 MB). Downloads would be resumed if the modem disconnected.


----------



## wmcbrine

nooneuknow said:


> TiVo does routinely lie to their customers, or state things that are untrue, which could be more incompetence, or what they have been told do say or do, than deliberately lying, in some cases.


I don't think of CSRs as "TiVo", just as idiots. This seems to be a universal phenomenon. Granted, TiVo is ultimately responsible for hiring and training them, but I'd never treat their statements as official. I reserve that for things said in press releases, etc.


----------



## nooneuknow

wmcbrine said:


> I don't think of CSRs as "TiVo", just as idiots. This seems to be a universal phenomenon. Granted, TiVo is ultimately responsible for hiring and training them, but I'd never treat their statements as official. I reserve that for things said in press releases, etc.


Agreed. I also do not consider the TiVo "CS Reps" as TiVo "the company". But, making that distinction in every post, or reply, is generally not something that comes to mind.


----------



## ahwman

NorthAlabama said:


> ok, this happened to me tonight, 20.3.1, only a few channels have error "Problem with the signal on this channel. Trying again. (V53)", most other channels are fine. i'm with comcast, no sdv or ta.
> 
> removed m-card, unplugged, booted w/o card, reinserted m-card, channels restored. this will get old quickly if it happens regularly.


This was happening to me quite often (every 1-2 days) on both of my XL4's following the 20.3.1 update. I spoke with a supervisor who suggested to do a "Clear and delete program guide data" - I forget exactly the wording, however it's in the help menu and you'll see it. His thoughts were that my channel map may be corrupt or TiVo is using an old cached copy. In any case, I didn't hold out a lot of hope, however I proceeding to take his advice on both of my TiVo's. That was a week ago and as of yet, I haven't seen this issue return. I'm cautiously optimistic, however so far so good. The nice thing is that this function in non destructive and won't require any reconfiguration on your part.


----------



## nooneuknow

ahwman said:


> This was happening to me quite often (every 1-2 days) on both of my XL4's following the 20.3.1 update. I spoke with a supervisor who suggested to do a "Clear and delete program guide data" - I forget exactly the wording, however it's in the help menu and you'll see it. His thoughts were that my channel map may be corrupt or TiVo is using an old cached copy. In any case, I didn't hold out a lot of hope, however I proceeding to take his advice on both of my TiVo's. That was a week ago and as of yet, I haven't seen this issue return. I'm cautiously optimistic, however so far so good. The nice thing is that this function in non destructive and won't require any reconfiguration on your part.


I actually do this every three to six months, and it SEEMS to clear up a lot of issues that arise. Perhaps it gets fragmented, and the delete & re-download is an extreme defrag process (or one way of looking at it)... I would expect the guide data to be the most vulnerable to corruption, which is why I like to purge it now and then....


----------



## ahwman

nooneuknow said:


> I actually do this every three to six months, and it SEEMS to clear up a lot of issues that arise. Perhaps it gets fragmented, and the delete & re-download is an extreme defrag process (or one way of looking at it)... I would expect the guide data to be the most vulnerable to corruption, which is why I like to purge it now and then....


The only problem I noticed by doing this is that it seems to erase the recorded history, so now my TiVo's are recording reruns even though season passes are set for "First Run" only. I imagine the 21 day rule applies again?


----------



## nooneuknow

ahwman said:


> The only problem I noticed by doing this is that it seems to erase the recorded history, so now my TiVo's are recording reruns even though season passes are set for "First Run" only. I imagine the 21 day rule applies again?


Mine will only record ONE repeat episode, then will not record anything else, except a truly new episode, if set to 1st run only (new only).

It's the new & repeat recordings that get a little annoying. Every time I do the C&D guide data, I have to delete hundreds of episodes of Pawn Stars, I've already seen, while trying to spot old episodes I haven't. It seems to be like that for all SPs that I allow repeats on. BUT, it only does that on three or four channels, that run the same three shows 24/7.


----------



## NorthAlabama

ahwman said:


> This was happening to me quite often...following the 20.3.1 update...a supervisor...suggested to do a "Clear and delete program guide data"


thanks for the info and the reply, it's nice to have an option other than a hard reboot if this starts to occur regularly. :up:


----------



## JoeKustra

ahwman said:


> The only problem I noticed by doing this is that it seems to erase the recorded history, so now my TiVo's are recording reruns even though season passes are set for "First Run" only. I imagine the *21 day *rule applies again?


I like that name. The 21 day rule applies to anywhere on earth I guess. Offshoot of the global economy I suppose. I guess we should be glad that there are no TiVo guides on the moon.


----------



## eddieb187

Anyone notice their TiVo connecting to the TiVo Service multiple times daily?
Before 20.3.1 my two Premieres would connect to the service once every 24 hours.
Now for example one TiVo connected at 8:30 AM this morning and it says "Last Status" Succeeded.... 
"Next Attempt" 12:30 PM today??? Not only that but I noticed that they are connecting to the TiVo Service 4 or 5 times in one 24 hour period. 
I called TiVo support and reported this issue.


----------



## Bierboy

nooneuknow said:


> TiVo does routinely lie to their customers, or state things that are untrue, which could be more incompetence, or what they have been told do say or do, than deliberately lying, in some cases.
> 
> There's far too many people who have posted all over the forums, who share my experiences, that back up my point-of-view on the matter.
> 
> It's far harder to find posts that back up your cloaked attack, that basically implies I'm a liar, and implies that TiVo is truthful to their customers, and don't provide completely inaccurate, and/or untrue disinformation to their customers.
> 
> I'm content with saying the burden of proof, is on you, and even then, that means you being fully truthful, as well.
> 
> You're one of those flame-baiting people, who I usually would just let your post speak for itself, and leave it be, letting others decide if they want to address what you post. However, I'll give you this one indulgence, and leave it at that. It is what it is. I routinely remove myself from engaging with people who are always diluting the pertinent content of threads, with either direct, or cloaked, attacks, only looking for a fight. Let's see how many people agree with you. I'll be sitting on the sidelines from here on out.


And I suppose that simply because someone posts here saying TiVo "lied" to them means that "TiVo routinely lies to their customers". When you use the word "routinely" here's the definition of that word -- _*"A prescribed, detailed course of action to be followed regularly; a standard procedure."*_

Of course more people are going to complain in these forums ("backing up your claims") than those who post saying TiVo doesn't lie and tells the truth. That's the nature of these boards.

You can name-call all you want -- I challenge YOU to prove that they "routinely" lie to their customers.... you can't do it. Neither can I prove they don't. Neither of us can be "truthful" since all we're doing is expressing opinions based on VERY limited information. As I said, if you believe they do, keep living in your fantasy world.


----------



## NorthAlabama

eddieb187 said:


> Anyone notice their TiVo connecting to the TiVo Service multiple times daily? Before 20.3.1 my two Premieres would connect to the service once every 24 hours.


i've noticed, i'm glad, and i hope it continues. several recent recordings have failed to update with the guide recently, after the guide data had changed. i hope this will help correct at least a few of these recording/guide conficts.


----------



## JoeKustra

NorthAlabama said:


> i've noticed, i'm glad, and i hope it continues. several recent recordings have failed to update with the guide recently, after the guide data had changed. i hope this will help correct at least a few of these recording/guide conficts.


I'm with you. I had two SP conflicts (bogus) that went away after this morning's refresh.


----------



## Davisadm

ahwman said:


> ...I spoke with a supervisor who suggested to do a "Clear and delete program guide data" ...


I would not want to do Clear & delete because I have quite a few programs (mainly movies) I want to keep. And because of the frigging Copy Protection that has been forced on us, I have no way of backing these programs.


----------



## MeInDallas

eddieb187 said:


> Anyone notice their TiVo connecting to the TiVo Service multiple times daily?
> Before 20.3.1 my two Premieres would connect to the service once every 24 hours.
> Now for example one TiVo connected at 8:30 AM this morning and it says "Last Status" Succeeded....
> "Next Attempt" 12:30 PM today??? Not only that but I noticed that they are connecting to the TiVo Service 4 or 5 times in one 24 hour period.
> I called TiVo support and reported this issue.


Mine is especially at night time, after midnight it connects like 6 different times, but I was assuming it was doing so because I had given them permission to monitor my boxes because of the "no suggestions" issue. Usually it connects and then 10 minutes later it connects a 2nd time.


----------



## morac

Davisadm said:


> I would not want to do Clear & delete because I have quite a few programs (mainly movies) I want to keep. And because of the frigging Copy Protection that has been forced on us, I have no way of backing these programs.


"Clear and delete program guide data" is different from "Clear & Delete Everything". The former doesn't delete existing recordings, the later does.

There's really no reason to do either though, unless you are specifically having a problem with guide data or selling your box.


----------



## tomhorsley

ahwman said:


> This was happening to me quite often (every 1-2 days) on both of my XL4's following the 20.3.1 update. I spoke with a supervisor who suggested to do a "Clear and delete program guide data"


I'm having the exact same symptoms since the 20.3 update, so I'm giving it a shot, but I just noticed the TiVo is displaying a screen that says "Clearing yadda yadda - this may take up to an hour."

I thought booting was slow, but it isn't possible to imagine what sort of internal data structures it must have for this to take a hour, even if the CPU was one of those 4 bit chips they use in digital watches .


----------



## crxssi

eddieb187 said:


> Not only that but I noticed that they are connecting to the TiVo Service 4 or 5 times in one 24 hour period.
> I called TiVo support and reported this issue.


Perhaps that explains why the TiVo servers seem so freaking slow since the update??

I have seen the "flower petals of death" more times in the last few weeks than in the last many months combined....

(And no, it is not my network or Internet. Even in prime time I get 20+Mb/s down and 14 up with very low latency.)


----------



## ahwman

NorthAlabama said:


> thanks for the info and the reply, it's nice to have an option other than a hard reboot if this starts to occur regularly. :up:


I hope it works for you...


----------



## nooneuknow

tomhorsley said:


> I'm having the exact same symptoms since the 20.3 update, so I'm giving it a shot, but I just noticed the TiVo is displaying a screen that says "Clearing yadda yadda - this may take up to an hour."
> 
> I thought booting was slow, but it isn't possible to imagine what sort of internal data structures it must have for this to take a hour, even if the CPU was one of those 4 bit chips they use in digital watches .


Both the person who posted what the CS suggested, as well as myself, neglected to say the usual disclaimer: THIS PROCESS CAN TAKE UP TO 3 HOURS TO COMPLETELY REFRESH THE GUIDE DATA AND RESCHEDULE ALL YOUR SEASON PASSES. Oops, sorry.

...and it should be pointed out that Clear & Delete Guide Data DOES NOT delete any *already recorded* recordings, or any Season Passes. It WILL wipe out recording history and any manual recordings, as well as Wish List entries. It WILL *TEMPORARILY* delete your To Do List, and scheduled Season Pass recordings, but will RESCHEDULE them incrementally, as the Guide Data repopulates.

I always make sure that nothing important is scheduled to record for three hours, write down any manually scheduled recordings, & Wish List entries, and then re-enter them manually once the whole process is done.

Sometimes, it's like the difference between working with a computer that hasn't been defragmented in months/years, and one that has been, performance-wise, once it's all over and done. If there was no reward, I wouldn't bother doing it.


----------



## tomhorsley

In my case it turned out that clearing the data didn't help anyway. I have the exact same problems after it came back as I did before. I guess one of these days when I have time to wait for them I'll see if I can get comcast to come out and check the signals and maybe replace the cable card (it does seem quite warm when I take it out of the box to try that form of reset).


----------



## MPSAN

OK, my XL4 got the update and I can be added to the list of people who have to backup a few seconds to get sound! I have noticed this on the buffer and on a few recordings. I am connected via HDMI, and did not remember having this issue before the update.


----------



## MHunter1

JWhites said:


> SD menus had a black background with white text instead of the regular blue one





chrispitude said:


> background of the SD "My Shows" menu is often solid black after watching a prerecorded show


The SDUI "black background" bug has been around for a long time. It's just more noticeable since v20.3.1 because now it happens EVERY time after pressing Left to dismiss the keep-or-delete dialog after it appears on its own at the end of a recording.

www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9299017


----------



## Frank_H

After updating to the latest firmware, i can no longer stream from my XL4 to my XL. I can stream the other way. I have rebooted numerous times.


----------



## eddieb187

Since the 20.3 update My TiVo XLs are having problems seeing eachother.
My XL in my BDRM constantly loses connection to the XL in the LVRM.
When I go to the bottom of "My Shows" on BDRM XL the LVRM XL is not there.
But here's the strange thing. At the same time I go the bottom of "My Show" on the LVRM XL and BDRM XL shows up fine and I can copy and stream from it.
All other Networking features are working at this time as well. The Adds in TiVo Central and I can connect to the TiVo Service just as well. 
And sometimes neither TiVo XL can see the other.
I never had this issue before. This issue started occuring after I updated to 20.3.


----------



## leswar

MSPAN>> OK, my XL4 got the update and I can be added to the list of people who have to backup a few seconds to get sound! I have noticed this on the buffer and on a few recordings. I am connected via HDMI, and did not remember having this issue before the update.

--------

Same problem for my premiere xl with the no sound. I can get it back using the 8 sec Replay button.


----------



## chiguy50

Frank_H said:


> After updating to the latest firmware, i can no longer stream from my XL4 to my XL. I can stream the other way. I have rebooted numerous times.





eddieb187 said:


> Since the 20.3 update My TiVo XLs are having problems seeing eachother.
> My XL in my BDRM constantly loses connection to the XL in the LVRM.
> When I go to the bottom of "My Shows" on BDRM XL the LVRM XL is not there.
> But here's the strange thing. At the same time I go the bottom of "My Show" on the LVRM XL and BDRM XL shows up fine and I can copy and stream from it.
> All other Networking features are working at this time as well. The Adds in TiVo Central and I can connect to the TiVo Service just as well.
> And sometimes neither TiVo XL can see the other.
> I never had this issue before. This issue started occuring after I updated to 20.3.


Occasionally things will get out of sync on the network. Try a network reset: unplug your router and both TiVo's, wait at least 30 seconds, then power up first your router and then the TiVo's. If it's a sync'ing issue, this will probably resolve it.


----------



## MPSAN

leswar said:


> MSPAN>> OK, my XL4 got the update and I can be added to the list of people who have to backup a few seconds to get sound! I have noticed this on the buffer and on a few recordings. I am connected via HDMI, and did not remember having this issue before the update.
> 
> --------
> 
> Same problem for my premiere xl with the no sound. I can get it back using the 8 sec Replay button.


Yes, I use the 8 sec rewind. I wonder what TIVO support will say? I bet they tell me to reboot as they never heard of this problem before!!!


----------



## MPSAN

OK, I just called and they are going to submit a ticket, so who knows what that will do.


----------



## Frank_H

chiguy50 said:


> Occasionally things will get out of sync on the network. Try a network reset: unplug your router and both TiVo's, wait at least 30 seconds, then power up first your router and then the TiVo's. If it's a sync'ing issue, this will probably resolve it.


Thanks. That worked.


----------



## slowbiscuit

I'm noticing a lot more sluggishness on my Elite after the update, including slow response to remote presses at times. But it comes and goes which is weird.


----------



## andyf

slowbiscuit said:


> I'm noticing a lot more sluggishness on my Elite after the update, including slow response to remote presses at times. But it comes and goes which is weird.


I have noticed this too. Fast Forwarding through commercials is a pain because it takes time to respond to the Play button when the commercials end.

Also, have to hit up or down more than once when browsing through the guide. I'm using the slide remote and it's like it goes to sleep and needs time to wake up when a button is pressed, subsequent presses seem OK.


----------



## eddieb187

chiguy50 said:


> Occasionally things will get out of sync on the network. Try a network reset: unplug your router and both TiVo's, wait at least 30 seconds, then power up first your router and then the TiVo's. If it's a sync'ing issue, this will probably resolve it.


Thanks, chiguy.
But I have already tried this fix.
I shut down everything, Macs, PCs, Switches, TiVos, Cable Modem, and Router.
Started all back up modem, router, then the rest and everything was fine.
The very next day, BDRM XL could not see LVRM XL.
By the way, my Macs, PCs, iPad, Laptops, Cell Phone, in fact every other Networked device I have in the house has internet and can connect to eachother over gigabit ethernet or wifi.
In my opinion, 20.3 is the culprit here. 
I did not have this issue previous to the update.
TiVo always connected.


----------



## Bierboy

andyf said:


> ....Fast Forwarding through commercials...


What is this "Fast Forwarding through commercials" you speak of?


----------



## MPSAN

Bierboy said:


> What is this "Fast Forwarding through commercials" you speak of?


...and why not use the 30 second skip (SPS30S)?


----------



## pspens

Did this update fix the problem with the inconsistent FF1? It sure seems that it did.


----------



## JoeKustra

Bierboy said:


> What is this "Fast Forwarding through commercials" you speak of?





MPSAN said:


> ...and why not use the 30 second skip (SPS30S)?


Sometimes when watching a recording I would rather not see the same Cialis commerical five or six times. You can use the ->| to move forward 30 seconds. If you overshoot there is the "backup" key. Sometimes you would rather just run at through the commericals at a faster speed. Then you use ->-> twice or three times to FF the recording. When you hit play ->, it will backup a few seconds called the variable or backup que. Tivo doesn't allow adjustments to these times like my old DHG, but I adjusted quickly and like the FF better. I would like the single FF to display too, but it hides itself after a few seconds. Personal preferences are not big with a TiVo, but it works well without them.


----------



## pspens

JoeKustra said:


> Sometimes when watching a recording I would rather not see the same Cialis commerical five or six times. You can use the ->| to move forward 30 seconds. If you overshoot there is the "backup" key. Sometimes you would rather just run at through the commericals at a faster speed. Then you use ->-> twice or three times to FF the recording. When you hit play ->, it will backup a few seconds called the variable or backup que. Tivo doesn't allow adjustments to these times like my old DHG, but I adjusted quickly and like the FF better. I would like the single FF to display too, but it hides itself after a few seconds. Personal preferences are not big with a TiVo, but it works well without them.


I'm pretty sure you got leveled.


----------



## chiguy50

Bierboy said:


> What is this "Fast Forwarding through commercials" you speak of?


This crack quite literally left me laughing out loud.


----------



## Bierboy

MPSAN said:


> ...and why not use the 30 second skip (SPS30S)?


Did you not see my sig?


----------



## MHunter1

pspens said:


> Did this update fix the problem with the inconsistent FF1?





MHunter1 said:


> At first it seemed 3x FF (one fast-forward arrow) was fixed but occasionally it still gets stuck on muted 1x playback


I posted back on May 17 (page 3, post #80) that my Premiere Elite's FF1 (3x playback speed) was working properly every time when I first got v20.3.1 but within a few hours it was back to its old jittery self, playing at muted 1x for a few seconds then a burst of 3x, then 1x again. It's not fixed.


----------



## lpwcomp

Bierboy said:


> Did you not see my sig?


You should update your sig. It is ambiguous for a Premiere.


----------



## MPSAN

Bierboy said:


> Did you not see my sig?


OK...I did not see your sig...but shouldn't it be SPS30S...or SSPS30S?


----------



## lpwcomp

MPSAN said:


> OK...I did not see your sig...but shouldn't it be SPS30S...or SSPS30S?


Exactly why I suggested he change it. On a Premiere, it could refer to either "30-second _*skip*_" or the,IMHO, inferior "30-second _*scan*_".


----------



## jmr50

I'm seeing some audio sync issues.


----------



## MPSAN

jmr50 said:


> I'm seeing some audio sync issues.


Off Topic! We are now talking about a 30 second skip. 

Actually I have not noticed this sync issue, but get no audio sometimes and have to do a quick 8 second rewind. Then the audio comes back. I am using HDMI.


----------



## aaronwt

lpwcomp said:


> Exactly why I suggested he change it. On a Premiere, it could refer to either "30-second _*skip*_" or the,IMHO, inferior "30-second _*scan*_".


The more advanced 30 second scan 

I've not seen any audio sync issues.


----------



## pspens

MHunter1 said:


> I posted back on May 17 (page 3, post #80) that my Premiere Elite's FF1 (3x playback speed) was working properly every time when I first got v20.3.1 but within a few hours it was back to its old jittery self, playing at muted 1x for a few seconds then a burst of 3x, then 1x again. It's not fixed.


Well, of course this could be channel-related. Back in 2007 or so, I remember only one channel had a problem. Before this update, it seemed all channels were equally affected. Now I watched the US Open all day yesterday and never had a single problem with the FF1 ( I like to use it while these pros are lining up their putts.)


----------



## lpwcomp

aaronwt said:


> The more advanced 30 second scan


I do not know if you are included in this group, but it amazes me that some of the same people who complain about slow response prefer the 30-second scan or FF to the nearly instantaneous skip.


----------



## atmuscarella

lpwcomp said:


> Exactly why I suggested he change it. On a Premiere, it could refer to either "30-second _*skip*_" or the,IMHO, inferior "30-second _*scan*_".


When I first got my Premiere I preferred the 30 sec skip but have know grown to like the 30 sec scan better (still use the skip on my Series III units).


----------



## beeman65

Netflix problem after this update. I started a thread on this here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=505510

Tivo is researching the problem and hoping to release a software patch.


----------



## Bierboy

lpwcomp said:


> Exactly why I suggested he change it. On a Premiere, it could refer to either "30-second _*skip*_" or the,IMHO, inferior "30-second _*scan*_".


OK OK....you've shamed me into being more specific...


----------



## nooneuknow

Bierboy said:


> OK OK....you've shamed me into being more specific...





> __________________
> Proud user of the 30SS (Thirty Second SKIP!!!)


That should be "SPS30S", for Select, Play, Select, 3, 0, Select. -Best used when watching a recording (to avoid the TiVo changing to channel 30, and nuking the change). It's also far easier to do in SDUI mode. I couldn't get it to work any other way, after the previous update came out. You'll know when it does accept it, by the double chime sound that the TiVo will make after the final button press.

You generally only need to re-do this procedure after installing a drive that isn't a clone of one that already has this hidden trick enabled (or you've done a Clear & Delete Everything on a drive that had it already enabled). Otherwise, it just stays active, and most would not notice if an update made it any more difficult to enable, unless they reversed it and then re-enabled it.


----------



## tlrowley

I want to preface this by saying that I'm not normally this confused - really 

Did Tivo add the ability to create SPs on different Tivos with this release (or have I been living under a rock and it's been there for a while?)


----------



## nooneuknow

tlrowley said:


> I want to preface this by saying that I'm not normally this confused - really
> 
> Did Tivo add the ability to create SPs on different Tivos with this release (or have I been living under a rock and it's been there for a while?)


I discovered it after the update before this one, by accident. Before that, I don't think it was possible. The right circumstances have to be in place, as I'm sure you've noticed...


----------



## tlrowley

Yes, it's a little "hidden", isn't it? Kind of freaked me out, TBH. 

Is it discussed anywhere? My search-fu failed me.


----------



## nooneuknow

tlrowley said:


> Yes, it's a little "hidden", isn't it? Kind of freaked me out, TBH.
> 
> Is it discussed anywhere? My search-fu failed me.


Same here. I thought it might have been something for future release, that they forgot to disable in the coding, so I kept quiet. Remember how real inter-Premiere streaming was accidentally released early, then quickly disabled, once people started talking about it (or perhaps due to the ones who were complaining it wasn't working 100% right 100% of the time)?

I guess now that it's been in two releases, it may be safe to critique it and openly discuss it. Feel like explaining it? I don't feel up to it at the moment...


----------



## moyekj

tlrowley said:


> Yes, it's a little "hidden", isn't it? Kind of freaked me out, TBH.
> 
> Is it discussed anywhere? My search-fu failed me.


 I've mentioned it in TCF before. Here is my summary of remote TiVo interaction I've posted before.

HDUI My Shows remote browsing
- Play button on remote now works without having to push into program details.
- Recently Deleted folder of remote unit now accessible and functional
- Remote scheduling (setting up season pass on remote unit)
* From My Shows browse another series 4 TiVo
* While still under remote My Shows click on Guide button
* Find a show to record in the guide and then click Select on it
* Here its important to choose "Season Pass & other options" (not Record this episode)
* Now you should see the name of your remote unit at top left of the screen and when you choose "Record this episode" or "Get a Season Pass" it will record on the remote unit instead of the local one.

- Modifying or deleting remote Season Pass
* From My Shows browse another series 4 TiVo
* Find a recording related to SP or recover it from Recently Deleted
* Select recording and then choose "More options" and the "Modify this Season Pass"
* Now you can change SP options or choose "Cancel this Season Pass"


----------



## lpwcomp

You can also schedule an individual recording on the remote TiVo, including whatever is currently "playing" on one of the tuners.

For something that is currently showing, after finding it in the guide, hit "Info" rather than select, select "Season Pass & other options" _*then*_ "Record this episode". The recording includes what is in the live buffer.


----------



## shippy1973

CoxInPHX said:


> Is this only when using HDMI or Optical-out to an AVR? I cannot seem to duplicate this issue.
> 
> My AVR is old, (Onkyo TX-SR600), w/ no HDMI inputs, so I use HDMI to HDTV and the TV's Optical-out to the AVR, all I ever see is PCM Audio even when set to Dolby.
> 
> I will test w/ the TiVo Optical-out directly to the AVR and see what happens. (EDIT: Could not duplicate with this set-up)


FWIW... HDMI connected to receiver, Dolby selected, FF to catch up to Live TV will produce audio loss but using 30 sec scan to Live TV did not. Tried it on different channels just to be sure.

Also, left the Tivo on all night but shut off my receiver and TV and when I turn them back on, no sound. Had to Instant Replay to get it back.


----------



## Bierboy

tlrowley said:


> I want to preface this by saying that I'm not normally this confused - really
> 
> Did Tivo add the ability to create SPs on different Tivos with this release (or have I been living under a rock and it's been there for a while?)


 Now I am confused....what's special about creating Season Passes on different TiVos? Do you mean using one TiVo to create SPs on other networked TiVos?

EDIT: Ah, never mind. I now see the above post. I was on the previous page of posts when I posted this....


----------



## JWhites

beeman65 said:


> Netflix problem after this update. I started a thread on this here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=505510
> 
> Tivo is researching the problem and hoping to release a software patch.


Too bad we don't know if this patch will fix other issues we've noticed. Of course they'd never clarify and answer that looming question.


----------



## JWhites

Anyone heard of any updates or fixes that have been released yet, maybe a 20.3.2 ?


----------



## nooneuknow

JWhites said:


> Anyone heard of any updates or fixes that have been released yet, maybe a 20.3.2 ?


It seems like they are trying to resolve most of the reported issues on the TiVo brain farm servers, with some success.

I'd only expect a patch-update, if they can't fix, or workaround, enough problems that way.

One can still hope...


----------



## tomhorsley

I noticed an interesting thing last night. I was moving some things around so I unplugged the TiVo for about an hour. When I turned it back on and waited for the reboot, it was working perfectly for about 15 minutes, then started to pick random channels again to say no signal or not available on. Maybe the 20.3 update is pushing the cpus harder and making it overheat or something. I should try picking up a block of dry ice and sitting it on top of the TiVo .


----------



## nooneuknow

tomhorsley said:


> I should try picking up a block of dry ice and sitting it on top of the TiVo .


If you are going to do that, you may as well overclock it, and then you can record/watch programs before they even air!


----------



## nooneuknow

Anybody else every ponder requesting that TiVo make it so that the recording, or Live TV, appear in the main screen, and the menu in the video window? I've seen it look like that for a brief moment, here and there, when switching between things, and have thought it would be cool to be able to swap the two around, when desirable.


----------



## Bierboy

nooneuknow said:


> Anybody else every ponder requesting that TiVo make it so that the recording, or Live TV, appear in the main screen, and the menu in the video window? I've seen it look like that for a brief moment, here and there, when switching between things, and have thought it would be cool to be able to swap the two around, when desirable.


I doubt you'd be able to read anything in a window that small...even on my 54 inch plasma, it would be very difficult.


----------



## nooneuknow

Bierboy said:


> I doubt you'd be able to read anything in a window that small...even on my 54 inch plasma, it would be very difficult.


Who needs to read, for basic navigation? I have the menus memorized. 

I guess I should have added a scalable window size feature to compliment the other part. Obviously, places like the Program Guide WOULD be difficult to read in the small video window...

I can always count on you to find any flaws that exist, may exist, or could happen to exist, in a parallel universe, when posting.


----------



## JWhites

nooneuknow said:


> It seems like they are trying to resolve most of the reported issues on the TiVo brain farm servers, with some success.
> 
> I'd only expect a patch-update, if they can't fix, or workaround, enough problems that way.
> 
> One can still hope...


TiVo brain farm servers? What success? As far as I know according to the website there isn't even a mention of the Spring 2013 update so would that mean it wasn't released to the general public and perhaps a result of the outcry of everyone pointing out the bugs and glitches we're seeing and perhaps a sign of an attempt on their part to fix aforementioned problems?
I mean this technically is the first day of Summer so this can't for all intents and purposes be considered a "Spring Release" anymore.


----------



## pspens

JWhites said:


> TiVo brain farm servers? What success? As far as I know according to the website there isn't even a mention of the Spring 2013 update so would that mean it wasn't released to the general public and perhaps a result of the outcry of everyone pointing out the bugs and glitches we're seeing and perhaps a sign of an attempt on their part to fix aforementioned problems?
> I mean this technically is the first day of Summer so this can't for all intents and purposes be considered a "Spring Release" anymore.


It has been released. I'm not on the priority list and I got it a little while ago.


----------



## JoeKustra

JWhites said:


> I mean this technically is the first day of Summer so this can't for all intents and purposes be considered a "Spring Release" anymore.


I think perhaps TiVo isn't going to attach a climate change to a release anymore. I'm pretty sure they have learned their lesson. I guess it's like TV. Too much "mid-season" stuff and cable filling in the summer gap. Just another label that no longer applies.


----------



## tomsavell

mrizzo80 said:


> I've had some issues with Netflix after the update. I thought hitting the up or left arrow key buttons would take you out of the show you are watching and back out to the main Netflix screen. That hasn't been working for me. The only way I've been able to bail at the end of an episode is to hit the TiVo button, which takes you all the way back out to the TiVo screen. Not a problem if you are done watching, but if you want to watch another episode you are stuck with having to Netflix all over again; which is taking 45 seconds for me these days.
> 
> Pause and play buttons also seem a bit strange. They are not always honored; or only honored after a long delay (well beyond the delay we are used to). TiVo is receiving the commands because the light on the box blinks immediately every time.


Netflix has been horribly bad with remote response time since they adopted the Netflix-authored app. But now, it's even worse!!!

It used to be just random response time from 0.5 seconds to 10 seconds delay. Now, it often never responds. I found two fixes to the no-response issue - cycle power to completely reboot, or press the <Live TV> button, wait a random response time up to 10 seconds to get to live TV, then go back to Netflix. It's really bad.


----------



## JWhites

Hmm, I came across a picture off of TiVo's website with the file name Quatro back from the January 2012 update, and in the System Info screen Quatro is also mentioned. [media]http://www.tivo.com/assets/images/screenshots/hdui/quatro/hdui_quatro_infobanner_530x298.jpg[/media]


----------



## chrispitude

tomsavell said:


> Netflix has been horribly bad with remote response time since they adopted the Netflix-authored app. But now, it's even worse!!!
> 
> It used to be just random response time from 0.5 seconds to 10 seconds delay. Now, it often never responds. I found two fixes to the no-response issue - cycle power to completely reboot, or press the <Live TV> button, wait a random response time up to 10 seconds to get to live TV, then go back to Netflix. It's really bad.


Oh, so you like to play the "did-I-pause-let-me-pause-again-crap-now-it's-unpaused" game too!


----------



## wmcbrine

Illustration of the latest transparency bug:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwyclyKRHn8[/media]


----------



## JWhites

chrispitude said:


> Oh, so you like to play the "did-I-pause-let-me-pause-again-crap-now-it's-unpaused" game too!


I think I won a bronze medal in that game


----------



## ncfoster

Also suffering from the audio dropout on catch-up. Drives me batty, but at least it is consistent and known. I am usually more cognizant of when the software updates are coming (and actually occur), but this time I happened to be a bit distracted, so I can only say that I also believe that some audio sync issues have also occurred specifically with this update. Looking forward to another update.


----------



## achalupa

Do is this rollout complete? I received a new TiVo last week and the first thing it did was update to 20.3.1.


----------



## tomhorsley

Oh well. Comcast says the upgrades (which include new cable card firmware) planned for Florida are indefinitely postponed (no longer scheduled for July), so since I've been playing around with Z-Wave home automation, I just stuck the TiVo on an appliance module so I can power cycle it from my phone or a web browser or even in a cron script if I decide I might as well reboot every day at 4 AM .


----------



## Butch32940

I can't believe I was stupid enough to sign up for priority for the update. Everything seems to have slowed down. Netflix is practically unwatchable because of CC freezing and commands not working. Then tonight a brand new problem. Some channels were unavailable (Error V53). What's next? This update was obviously not ready for primetime. Any chance that TIVO will admit the problem and revert to the previous software? Is that even possible?
My contract is up in October. I've been with TIVO for years and love the interface but think I'll be gone in October. Enough is enough.


----------



## ahwman

Butch32940 said:


> I can't believe I was stupid enough to sign up for priority for the update. Everything seems to have slowed down. Netflix is practically unwatchable because of CC freezing and commands not working. Then tonight a brand new problem. Some channels were unavailable (Error V53). What's next? This update was obviously not ready for primetime. Any chance that TIVO will admit the problem and revert to the previous software? Is that even possible?
> My contract is up in October. I've been with TIVO for years and love the interface but think I'll be gone in October. Enough is enough.


I feel your pain. I left Windows Media Center so that I wouldn't have to deal with things like this. After spending $1,700 on two XL4's and lifetime service, I must say I'm deeply disappointed with the plethora of unaddressed bugs... This is simply unacceptable and causes me to question if I made a big mistake.


----------



## dugbug

Butch32940 said:


> I can't believe I was stupid enough to sign up for priority for the update. Everything seems to have slowed down. Netflix is practically unwatchable because of CC freezing and commands not working. Then tonight a brand new problem. Some channels were unavailable (Error V53). What's next? This update was obviously not ready for primetime. Any chance that TIVO will admit the problem and revert to the previous software? Is that even possible?
> My contract is up in October. I've been with TIVO for years and love the interface but think I'll be gone in October. Enough is enough.


I bought an apple tv to accompany the tivo because of tivo's netflix mini-app. Its just unusable.

So when I want to watch a netflix or itunes show I just flip inputs.


----------



## jaredmwright

Two more TiVo Elites here with black video and no signal, each requiring a reboot. Not sure if this is a Comcast cable card issue or a problem with the new software. I have never had this symptom in the past and definitely makes me wonder whats going on. I don't even bother calling support since they have not been helpful in the past.

I also have the pause/resume no audio bug showing up frequently, really sad to see new issues when it was so stable with no new features visible...


----------



## jhilla

By this point those testing the Tivo Software and jumping from build to build to determine which one is working the best. Purposely TiVo will send down a somewhat half-baked version with enhancements to test stability. Yea, that was fun last year. The version you were used to before the priority update took a while to come up with. One way or another, Tivo will resolve the stability issue in the meantime while the kinks are being worked out you could plug your pc/laptop in an HDMI usb mini and run direct. Still use your Tivo Desktop, Pytivo or KMTTG to pull programs that are eligible =( but use Plex to serve your media on the screen. Considering this edition feels half-baked as well, considering hell of time keeping connection stable between the TiVo and pc on streambaby and getting v301 when using Pytivo periodically. I should not have to deal with this when I am at 30mbps. Between the pc, notebook, and androids they are flying my TiVo is surfing blindly while dodging tcp packets.

I have 2yr commit with my premiere. So Like everyone we are going to wait very patiently or cough up some mula to say audios.


----------



## Darkev

I really miss having the working antenna signal strength functionality. I recently installed a new antenna amp but have no way of knowing what signal I'm getting.


----------



## JWhites

tomhorsley said:


> Oh well. Comcast says the upgrades (which include new cable card firmware) planned for Florida are indefinitely postponed (no longer scheduled for July), so since I've been playing around with Z-Wave home automation, I just stuck the TiVo on an appliance module so I can power cycle it from my phone or a web browser or even in a cron script if I decide I might as well reboot every day at 4 AM .


You see that's strange because thee are customers down in southern jersey who haven't gotten that new cablecard firmware update who have the on demand service on their tivo's


----------



## JWhites

Butch32940 said:


> I can't believe I was stupid enough to sign up for priority for the update. Everything seems to have slowed down. Netflix is practically unwatchable because of CC freezing and commands not working. Then tonight a brand new problem. Some channels were unavailable (Error V53). What's next? This update was obviously not ready for primetime. Any chance that TIVO will admit the problem and revert to the previous software? Is that even possible?
> My contract is up in October. I've been with TIVO for years and love the interface but think I'll be gone in October. Enough is enough.


I feel your pain. I signed up for the priority list and run into these problems, so when I exchanged them I didn't sign up for the priority list and had a few weeks of grace period before it was forced upon me in the general release. Looking back, I'm glad I signed up and spotted these bugs because at least I was able to complain about it and wasn't alone, at least I knew what to expect instead of being sideswiped.


----------



## chrispitude

ahwman said:


> I feel your pain. I left Windows Media Center so that I wouldn't have to deal with things like this. After spending $1,700 on two XL4's and lifetime service, I must say I'm deeply disappointed with the plethora of unaddressed bugs... This is simply unacceptable and causes me to question if I made a big mistake.


The unaddressed bugs are bad, but the worse part is that each update introduces more new bugs than it fixes.


----------



## NorthAlabama

chrispitude said:


> The unaddressed bugs are bad, but the worse part is that each update introduces more new bugs than it fixes.


:up:


----------



## achalupa

chrispitude said:


> The unaddressed bugs are bad, but the worse part is that each update introduces more new bugs than it fixes.


This assumes TiVo releases new software to fix bugs. While they may fix a few bugs in each release I don't think that is the reason for any of their releases. In my opinion this release was for MLBtv support and to fix some back end bugs introduced by the database changes in the last release, and they throw in a couple of bugs users were reporting.


----------



## wmcbrine

chrispitude said:


> The unaddressed bugs are bad, but the worse part is that each update introduces more new bugs than it fixes.


Citation needed.

Personally I don't think I've run into any new bugs in 20.3.1, except for the transparency bug that affected Reversi (which annoys me a great deal), and the truncated descriptions (which I really don't care about). Meanwhile, the fixes I've noticed include the one for the transparency bug in Wordsmith, and the one for the gratuitous window -> full-screen -> window flash when setting a recording from the guide. So, if not for my personal involvement with Reversi, I'd probably regard this version as an improvement, albeit a very minor one.


----------



## moyekj

20.3.1 wasn't all bad. 2 pretty important things that were fixed from my perspective:
1. The expired cookie issue for TTG
2. Once can now copy Season Passes of shows without episodes currently in the guide which couldn't be done before, so now full season pass saving/copying/restoring is possible via kmttg.


----------



## sbiller

MeInDallas said:


> One of them I just rebooted and installed, and I noticed something new in the System Info screen thats not on the others, and its called
> 
> "Collab Slice Version: CP_Standard_t2 v.266"
> 
> No idea what it means.


Started a new thread on Collab Slice here --> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9719285#post9719285


----------



## DeWitt

wmcbrine said:


> Citation needed.
> 
> Personally I don't think I've run into any new bugs in 20.3.1, except for the transparency bug that affected Reversi (which annoys me a great deal), and the truncated descriptions (which I really don't care about). Meanwhile, the fixes I've noticed include the one for the transparency bug in Wordsmith, and the one for the gratuitous window -> full-screen -> window flash when setting a recording from the guide. So, if not for my personal involvement with Reversi, I'd probably regard this version as an improvement, albeit a very minor one.


The only one that has effected me is the Audio drop outs after ff. Just pausing/unpausing fixes it, but it is mildly annoying.


----------



## JWhites

chrispitude said:


> The unaddressed bugs are bad, but the worse part is that each update introduces more new bugs than it fixes.


:up:


----------



## JWhites

Darkev said:


> I really miss having the working antenna signal strength functionality. I recently installed a new antenna amp but have no way of knowing what signal I'm getting.


Spoke with a tech a few weeks ago who is experiencing that exact same problem and you know what the answer TiVo is telling him to give customers? "Don't use it" We both laughed at how stupid it was.


----------



## nooneuknow

I think something we should be asking TiVo for, in future updates and/or products, is the ability to pad a program in increments less than 1 minute. Usually, all I need is 5 to 15 seconds. If that were an option, I'd have no complaints about my programs either getting chopped at the end and/or losing anything important at the beginning of a program, due to padding the end of another one.


----------



## JoeKustra

Being able to start a program late would be nice too.


----------



## nooneuknow

JoeKustra said:


> Being able to start a program late would be nice too.


Agreed, along with stopping early, also with the less than 1 minute minimum increments (and maybe lesser increments when above 1 minute).


----------



## crxssi

nooneuknow said:


> I think something we should be asking TiVo for, in future updates and/or products, is the ability to pad a program in increments less than 1 minute. Usually, all I need is 5 to 15 seconds. If that were an option, I'd have no complaints about my programs either getting chopped at the end and/or losing anything important at the beginning of a program, due to padding the end of another one.


I don't see where that would matter at all; 30 sec, 1 min, who cares? Are you concerned about 30 seconds of storage space??? The big issue is that if you pad AT ALL, you will lose that tuner availability for the next show. That is something it would be nice to somehow fix.

I do agree it is annoying when programs do not start/end on the correct time.


----------



## evilipoo

I would have never discovered the signal strength meter problem, but one of my OTA channels started breaking up right after the upgrade. Now, I'm losing a second OTA (digital) channel to pixilation. Prior to the upgrade all my channels came in between 49-89. Now, even when I re-scan, there is no improvement. When I switch inputs to bypass Tivo, the "corrupt" channels come in with no pixilation at all.

Unfortunately, I've only found one other post on the boards that mentions actually _losing _channels post upgrade.

I've entered a ticket with Tivo for this, but it seems like it might be separate from the signal strength meter issue, so I'm not holding out much hope.

Anyone here notice something similar?


----------



## slowbiscuit

crxssi said:


> I don't see where that would matter at all; 30 sec, 1 min, who cares? Are you concerned about 30 seconds of storage space??? The big issue is that if you pad AT ALL, you will lose that tuner availability for the next show. That is something it would be nice to somehow fix.


No, that's why you have the clip option - so you don't lose the tuner.


----------



## wmcbrine

crxssi said:


> I don't see where that would matter at all; 30 sec, 1 min, who cares?


I believe he's saying that sometimes a minute is too much to lose (depending on the show).


----------



## chrispitude

wmcbrine said:


> I believe he's saying that sometimes a minute is too much to lose (depending on the show).


Agreed - there are certain shows/channels that consistently miss by 30 seconds, etc. Being able to handle this optimally would be slick.


----------



## nooneuknow

chrispitude said:


> Agreed - there are certain shows/channels that consistently miss by 30 seconds, etc. Being able to handle this optimally would be slick.


EXACTLY!!! :up:


----------



## CoxInPHX

chrispitude said:


> Agreed - there are certain shows/channels that consistently miss by 30 seconds, etc. Being able to handle this optimally would be slick.





nooneuknow said:


> EXACTLY!!! :up:


:up::up::up:


----------



## crxssi

slowbiscuit said:


> No, that's why you have the clip option - so you don't lose the tuner.


You know, I think I forgot about that thing. I will have to check it out.


----------



## crxssi

chrispitude said:


> Agreed - there are certain shows/channels that consistently miss by 30 seconds, etc.


Indeed I have seen many channels that seem to ALWAYS run over by 15 to 30 seconds. So many, in fact, that I thought maybe the TiVo clock is just always 15 to 30 seconds fast.


----------



## JWhites

Spoke with TiVo on Wednesday about a separate issue with a MoCA filter for a customer and the 20.3.1 software got brought up and I received some news that a patch is in the works and will be released soon to address issues discovered in this update. He didn't have any further information then that.


----------



## Bierboy

JWhites said:


> Spoke with TiVo on Wednesday about a separate issue with a MoCA filter for a customer and the 20.3.1 software got brought up and I received some news that _*a patch is in the works and will be released soon to address issues discovered in this update*_. He didn't have any further information then that.


Yeah....and your government check is in the mail....


----------



## MeInDallas

It will probably be known as "the fall 2013 update"


----------



## lpwcomp

Bierboy said:


> Yeah....and your government check is in the mail....


Very appropriate since the gummint mostly does EFT these days. But I'll still respect you in the morning.


----------



## JWhites

lpwcomp said:


> Very appropriate since the gummint mostly does EFT these days. But I'll still respect you in the morning.


:up:


----------



## moose53

Anyone with Tivo, PyTivo, and PlayOn Noticed Frequent Disconnects (between the Tivo and PlayOn)??

I'm having to restart my Tivo box 2+ times a day because it's losing the connection to the PlayOn server. It's not a problem on the computer side ... everything is working, everything sees everything, I can record using PlayLater.

If i restart the Tivo box, I get my connection back to PlayOn without doing anything at all on the computer side.

Before this update, I could count on the fingers of one hand how many times I've had to restart my Tivo box in the past 6-12 months. Now, I do it that many times PER DAY.

Anyone else noticed this?? Oh, I have tried restarting the computer ... that doesn't seem to get the connection back. It only works if I restart the Tivo.

Another "oh:" everything is run 'wired' ... even though I have the capability of 'wireless,' I don't use it.

Thanks.


----------



## Davisadm

NTP66 said:


> I'm having a similar issue to some here, where I continue to receive the following error message on a channel: "*Problem with the signal on this channel. Trying again. (V53)*". ...


No need to double post...


----------



## cpomeray

evilipoo said:


> I would have never discovered the signal strength meter problem, but one of my OTA channels started breaking up right after the upgrade. Now, I'm losing a second OTA (digital) channel to pixilation. Prior to the upgrade all my channels came in between 49-89. Now, even when I re-scan, there is no improvement. When I switch inputs to bypass Tivo, the "corrupt" channels come in with no pixilation at all.
> 
> Unfortunately, I've only found one other post on the boards that mentions actually _losing _channels post upgrade.
> 
> I've entered a ticket with Tivo for this, but it seems like it might be separate from the signal strength meter issue, so I'm not holding out much hope.
> 
> Anyone here notice something similar?


Yeah, I start getting lossy recordings on certain channels so I go check the signal strength and see that it's stuck on 70 or 0 and these channels are dropping and pixelated. After a reboot they are pulling between 65-75 on the strength meter and are clear for a couple of days before it all repeats.


----------



## CoxInPHX

The following two Audio bugs are starting to really annoy me. Is anyone else seeing an uptick in these Audio issues.

Both bugs are intermittent, and unpredictable.

One bug is were the Audio is lost when the HDMI connection is not active, changing TV inputs or turning off the TV and back on, the Audio on the foreground tuner is lost until trick-play is used (FF/RW)
The other one is that after a restart/reboot the foreground tuner will lose audio, until the channel is changed, trick-play will not resolve it.


----------



## nooneuknow

CoxInPHX said:


> The following two Audio bugs are starting to really annoy me. Is anyone else seeing an uptick in these Audio issues.
> 
> Both bugs are intermittent, and unpredictable.
> 
> One bug is were the Audio is lost when the HDMI connection is not active, changing TV inputs or turning off the TV and back on, the Audio on the foreground tuner is lost until trick-play is used (FF/RW)
> The other one is that after a restart/reboot the foreground tuner will lose audio, until the channel is changed, trick-play will not resolve it.


Yes, both. On four TCD746320 2-Tuner Premieres (with 2TB upgrades, of both the 512byte & 4K type drives). They are just predictable enough, for me to know that if one unit isn't having one, or all, issues at a moment, another one is, or will be.


----------



## CoxInPHX

nooneuknow said:


> Yes, both. On four TCD746320 2-Tuner Premieres (with 2TB upgrades, of both the 512byte & 4K type drives). They are just predictable enough, for me to know that if one unit isn't having one, or all, issues at a moment, another one is, or will be.


Do either of your 2TB upgraded TCD746320 Premieres enter Standby mode automatically on a regular basis?

Both my upgraded TCD746320 Premieres do, It is really strange, it does not seem to effect anything, but the LEDs and the Video output turns off after several hours of non use, exact same behavior as if manually put into standby. This is not new to 20.3.1, they have done it for quite some time.


----------



## nooneuknow

CoxInPHX said:


> Do either of your 2TB upgraded TCD746320 Premieres enter Standby mode automatically on a regular basis?
> 
> Both my upgraded TCD746320 Premieres do, It is really strange, it does not seem to effect anything, but the LEDs and the Video output turns off after several hours of non use, exact same behavior as if manually put into standby. This is not new to 20.3.1, they have done it for quite some time.


Not on their own. I always manually put them into it. I've NEVER heard of any TiVo device, other than a TiVo Mini/Stream (one of the two) having an "auto-standby" (and TiVo didn't provide an option to turn that "feature" off, causing MUCH dissent, and a whole thread about it here). If wish some form of "auto-standby", was available for full TiVo DVRs, but more advanced than doing it just because a remote button hasn't been pressed in X number minutes (unless you can specify the x factor), or a scheduling feature, with lots of options... Otherwise, I'm certain TiVo would, again, get it wrong, based on how THEY think it should work, and giving nothing more, at most, than an on/off toggle for the feature.

From what you describe, I would worry that there is a defect, or some anomaly going on with your afflicted units. I don't even know what to guess, to try to help. I don't see it being an Intellipark, or any other form of HDD power management. But you may want to make sure that all forms of power management are fully disabled. Some drives support APM features, that may cause TiVo weirdness. That's just a WAG, though...


----------



## lpwcomp

nooneuknow said:


> Not on their own. I always manually put them into it. I've NEVER heard of any TiVo device, other than a TiVo Mini/Stream (one of the two) having an "auto-standby" (and TiVo didn't provide an option to turn that "feature" off, causing MUCH dissent, and a whole thread about it here). If wish some form of "auto-standby", was available for full TiVo DVRs, but more advanced than doing it just because a remote button hasn't been pressed in X number minutes (unless you can specify the x factor), or a scheduling feature, with lots of options... Otherwise, I'm certain TiVo would, again, get it wrong, based on how THEY think it should work, and giving nothing more, at most, than an on/off toggle for the feature.


That would be a nice feature, but I'd be almost as happy if they would make one of the "color" buttons on the new remotes be the "Stby" button.



nooneuknow said:


> From what you describe, I would worry that there is a defect, or some anomaly going on with your afflicted units. I don't even know what to guess, to try to help. I don't see it being an Intellipark, or any other form of HDD power management. But you may want to make sure that all forms of power management are fully disabled. Some drives support APM features, that may cause TiVo weirdness. That's just a WAG, though...


Haven't seen this either, but neither of my Premieres is upgraded and I also put them in standby when not being actively and directly used. In fact, one of them spends almost all of its time in standby.


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> That would be a nice feature, but I'd be almost as happy if they would make one of the "color" buttons on the new remotes be the "Stby" button.
> 
> Haven't seen this either, but neither of my Premieres is upgraded and I also put them in standby when not being actively and directly used. In fact, one of them spends almost all of its time in standby.


I left out how nice a remote button would be. I also figure that will never happen, unless TiVo were to introduce a new model remote for one of the next gen product lines, like with the Premiere, adding the ABCD buttons (while taking away our BELOVED 1-2 switch). But, we can still buy a Premiere remote, and use it on a S3/HD. Hopefully a new remote would still allow that. I dream of a return to the 1-2 switch (or a 1-2-3-4 switch, perhaps as a macro using the A-B-C-D buttons).


----------



## mattack

CoxInPHX said:


> The following two Audio bugs are starting to really annoy me. Is anyone else seeing an uptick in these Audio issues.
> 
> Both bugs are intermittent, and unpredictable.
> 
> One bug is were the Audio is lost when the HDMI connection is not active, changing TV inputs or turning off the TV and back on, the Audio on the foreground tuner is lost until trick-play is used (FF/RW)
> The other one is that after a restart/reboot the foreground tuner will lose audio, until the channel is changed, trick-play will not resolve it.


I suggest you write up a bug at the official tivo forums.


----------



## Bierboy

I have now been experiencing the dead audio bug when jumping from the "past" to the "present"...a eight-second quick jump back clears it up....but it's annoying. This just started a week or two ago.


----------



## CoxInPHX

mattack said:


> I suggest you write up a bug at the official tivo forums.





Bierboy said:


> I have now been experiencing the dead audio bug when jumping from the "past" to the "present"...a eight-second quick jump back clears it up....but it's annoying. This just started a week or two ago.


When I opened a support ticket TiVo responded they were aware of the issue and were investigating.

Anyone else having this issue should also open a support ticket.
http://support.tivo.com/app/ask


----------



## nooneuknow

CoxInPHX said:


> When I opened a support ticket TiVo responded they were aware of the issue and were investigating.
> 
> Anyone else having this issue should also open a support ticket.
> http://support.tivo.com/app/ask


Unfortunately, TiVo will just close the ticket, once they've run through their A B C computer problem solver program, as opposed to leaving it open until the issue is truly resolved. I guess if they try all the canned answers, and have nothing more to offer they define it as "resolved" or "closed".

I used to preach to "report it directly to TiVo". That didn't get many pleasant reactions here. I'm beginning to understand why.

On the other hand, even a "closed" ticket IS A TRAIL. A whole bunch of them IS A PATTERN.

Just make sure that support gives you an actual incident number (ticket), verify it shows up online, under "My Support", and see where it leads to. If it gets magically closed, without your problem resolved, file a formal complaint higher up (TiVo Executive Relations).

I tried the whole, try to re-open, or re-submit, when they just close the ticket game. They auto-ignore those. Very disappointing, and depressing, the state that their so-called "customer service" has sunk to.

Still, if we don't report it to them directly, WE GET BLAMED when things don't get addressed/fixed.


----------



## chrispitude

Bierboy said:


> I have now been experiencing the dead audio bug when jumping from the "past" to the "present"...a eight-second quick jump back clears it up....but it's annoying. This just started a week or two ago.


Three times last night.


----------



## Bierboy

Submitted an incident report.


----------



## slowbiscuit

I've also seen the rare occasion where you get no audio on initial playback, but trick play fixes it.


----------



## Bierboy

I was actually getting this same thing on my Series 3 for a year or two before I retired in Dec last year.


----------



## tomhorsley

OK, I just submitted a report begging to go back to the firmware version before 20.3 showed up .

I think it would be a legitimate experiment to see if my TiVo goes back to losing channels once every few weeks instead of once every few minutes, but I'm sure it was pointless to ask :-(.


----------



## nooneuknow

tomhorsley said:


> OK, I just submitted a report begging to go back to the firmware version before 20.3 showed up .
> 
> I think it would be a legitimate experiment to see if my TiVo goes back to losing channels once every few weeks instead of once every few minutes, but I'm sure it was pointless to ask :-(.


They only allowed that while the rollout wasn't finished. Once it was, even those who were allowed the luxury, were forced to use the new version.

Sorry to be the messenger of bad news. Please don't shoot the messenger.


----------



## Davisadm

nooneuknow said:


> Sorry to be the messenger of bad news. Please don't shoot the messenger.


Just strangle the messenger, that way there is no blood!


----------



## JWhites

lpwcomp said:


> That would be a nice feature, but I'd be almost as happy if they would make one of the "color" buttons on the new remotes be the "Stby" button.


Hope not, since that'd probably get screwed up. Just hope that they leave it how it is now with it being an option in the menu for manual use and nothing more.


lpwcomp said:


> Haven't seen this either, but neither of my Premieres is upgraded and I also put them in standby when not being actively and directly used. In fact, one of them spends almost all of its time in standby.


I, as well as most people, have absolutely no use for the standby button. It doesn't affect power usage in any way. In fact it'd be better to just get rid of it all together and optimize the codes.


----------



## nooneuknow

JWhites said:


> Hope not, since that'd probably get screwed up. Just hope that they leave it how it is now with it being an option in the menu for manual use and nothing more.
> 
> I, as well as most people, have absolutely no use for the standby button. It doesn't affect power usage in any way. In fact it'd be better to just get rid of it all together and optimize the codes.


I can agree that TiVo would just implement any new functions/options for it in a way they see fit, and it would likely suck (they'd screw it up, just as you say).

On their being no difference in power usage, I call BS. I measured it. I re-verify every time somebody makes the same claim you do. It's a small amount. All that matters is that it is measureable. You don't even need a multi-meter, or a Kill-A-Watt. A nice UPS with a consumption/load readout will register the difference, even at a KWHr scale. I've used all means to verify it. Now that I have to use power-sucking TAs, I especially like having it, and make sure I use it.

Standby serves plenty of other useful purposes. I know that you know what they are, even if you don't use, or have any use, for them. That doesn't mean that nobody else does, or everybody else feels the same way you do. Even if it didn't save power, at all, the forums would light up, if it disappeared as an option. I use it to speed up network transfers. It makes a HUGE difference in many cases (especially when you have TiVo HD units, as well as Premieres).

Optimize WHAT code that has anything to do with Standby Mode? Standby Mode has been in generations of the product. It works. I'll even go as far as to say that maybe it's best to just leave it alone, so they don't break it. What on earth would need to be optimized in code that does something so simple, and works well enough that you don't even see anybody complaining about it?

One person has asked about a random and seemingly isolated issue about his Premieres going into standby on their own. That's the first thing I've seen that could even come close to a complaint.

Does TiVo need to get their act together and optimize their code, on things that came AFTER they created Standby Mode? YES! I agree, fully. How does taking Standby Mode away accomplish that?

I think it works so well, and after further thought on how they might screw it up, the only thing I'd ask for, is a button on any new remote they come out with, to turn it on, at any point you like, at any screen you are on, even if the TV is turned off. I retract my wishes for a scheduled or auto-standby mode, with many options to customize. You're right. TiVo would screw it up.


----------



## tomhorsley

Actually, if the TiVo had something that was genuinely like an "off" button, it wouldn't constantly badger you with popus asking if it can change the channel to do a recording - it would actually know you weren't watching it. People are used to pressing "off" buttons, they are irritated by popups interrupting their program.


----------



## lpwcomp

The reason I put mine in standby is that it doesn't acknowledge the EAS while in standby. It's very annoying to be watching something that was recorded when you weren't even around and being suddenly presented with an old EAS message.

As far as them "screwing up" the single button standby - that's really hard to believe since there was at one time a "Stdby" button on the remote and the code still exists in the TiVo s/w. The kmttg remote has a "Toggle standby" function and it is _*not*_ a macro.

I have no idea when they implemented standby but it has been available since my first TiVo, an AT&T branded one. I think it used to be on the main menu. I used it for RF pass-through.


----------



## sharkster

lpwcomp said:


> The reason I put mine in standby is that it doesn't acknowledge the EAS while in standby. It's very annoying to be watching something that was recorded when you weren't even around and being suddenly presented with an old EAS message.


I always learn a lot reading your posts!

Anyway, when I saw EAS it really caught my eye. I hate hate hate those damnable EAS (it might rain 200 miles from here - bfd) alerts and have found (thought) they were completely unavoidable. Geez, even when you are watching a recording it blows you out of there and you get that screeching horror and you cannot get out of it. I wonder why they can't just have a scrolling thing along the bottom or, even better, IMO, have the ability to opt out.

So I'm now intrigued with the 'standby' thing. In all my years with Tivos I never used standby because my naive mind thought that would reduce feature ability. While you have it in standby does it record everything that would otherwise be recorded?


----------



## lpwcomp

sharkster said:


> So I'm now intrigued with the 'standby' thing. In all my years with Tivos I never used standby because my naive mind thought that would reduce feature ability. While you have it in standby does it record everything that would otherwise be recorded?


Yes, including the live buffers. For a non-DirectTiVo, all it does is turn off the output and front panel lights, and ignore the EAS alerts. In all other respects, it continues to behave normally.

As I said, I leave one of my Premieres in standby most of the time. It records everything I have scheduled and and I can transfer or stream from it with no problem.

If I ever decide that I have the money to "throw away", I am tempted to order one of these:


To see if the "Stdby" button still works.


----------



## sharkster

Thank You so much! I'm going to have to try that. Whenever it's cloudy here I can expect those effing EAS things every five minutes or so and I really get pissed off. One day it happened right at the last few minutes of a show, so I missed the whole ending and didn't know what happened. ARGH


----------



## crxssi

sharkster said:


> Anyway, when I saw EAS it really caught my eye. I hate hate hate those damnable EAS


I hate them too. Damn F'ing tests all the time messing up my recordings. And then when they are not tests, they are rarely for this actual area. I wish I could opt out of them.


----------



## wmcbrine

lpwcomp said:


> ... To see if the "Stdby" button still works.


It should. The last time I had a universal remote, it did. But, I don't actually see a "Stdby" button there? Did TiVo ever make a remote with one?

The standby command over the "Crestron" network interface (as used by my remote) still works, but not consistently, when in the HDUI. It will work while viewing Live TV, but not in all (any?) of the menus. It works as always in the SDUI. I expect that other ways to send the standby code work the same way.


----------



## lpwcomp

crxssi said:


> I hate them too. Damn F'ing tests all the time messing up my recordings. And then when they are not tests, they are rarely for this actual area. I wish I could opt out of them.


Occasionally, Comcast has some problem as they will run an EAS test every 5 or 10 minutes. Even if nothing is being recorded except the live buffers, it makes difficult to watch anything. Obviously, putting it in standby is not an option.

There are numerous threads on this subject.


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## lpwcomp

wmcbrine said:


> It should. The last time I had a universal remote, it did. But, I don't actually see a "Stdby" button there? Did TiVo ever make a remote with one?


Yes, it became the "Window" button (different command transmitted), which never did anything until they enabled "Aspect" control with the Series 3 when it was relabeled "Aspect" and is "Zoom" on the Series 4 remote. Look more closely at the picture I posted. If that button isn't labeled "Stdby", I don't know what it is. Plus I remember it being there, although my memory has been know to be, um, less than accurate at times. 



wmcbrine said:


> The standby command over the "Crestron" network interface (as used by my remote) still works, but not consistently, when in the HDUI. It will work while viewing Live TV, but not in all (any?) of the menus. It works as always in the SDUI. I expect that other ways to send the standby code work the same way.


I just tested the remote in kmttg and "Toggle Standby" works on my HDUI enabled Premiere no matter what screen it is on, even if playing back a recording.


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## moyekj

wmcbrine said:


> The standby command over the "Crestron" network interface (as used by my remote) still works, but not consistently, when in the HDUI. It will work while viewing Live TV, but not in all (any?) of the menus. It works as always in the SDUI. I expect that other ways to send the standby code work the same way.


AFAICT using the RPC equivalent works from live TV or any TiVo menu (HDUI or SDUI) that I have tried, even for example from search screen.


----------



## wmcbrine

lpwcomp said:


> Look more closely at the picture I posted. If that button isn't labeled "Stdby", I don't know what it is.


I gotta go with "illegible at this resolution".


----------



## lpwcomp

wmcbrine said:


> I gotta go with "illegible at this resolution".


Where's CSI or NCIS to run their magical "enhancement" s/w when you need them?


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## morac

lpwcomp said:


> Occasionally, Comcast has some problem as they will run an EAS test every 5 or 10 minutes. Even if nothing is being recorded except the live buffers, it makes difficult to watch anything. Obviously, putting it in standby is not an option.
> 
> There are numerous threads on this subject.


I don't know why Comcast can't switch to the "new" modern EAS that doesn't interfere with recordings. Instead of changing channels, it uses the OOB data to overlay a banner on the current video, be it live or a previous recording. The overlay isn't recorded and doesn't affect recording. It's not even that new, it's been around several years.


----------



## lpwcomp

morac said:


> I don't know why Comcast can't switch to the "new" modern EAS that doesn't interfere with recordings. Instead of changing channels, it uses the OOB data to overlay a banner on the current video, be it live or a previous recording. The overlay isn't recorded and doesn't affect recording. It's not even that new, it's been around several years.


Wouldn't the TiVo have to have support for this? Otherwise, I don't understand how the "overlay" would not be recorded.


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## morac

lpwcomp said:


> Wouldn't the TiVo have to have support for this? Otherwise, I don't understand how the "overlay" would not be recorded.


TiVo does support it. This is a screenshot from a TiVo.


__
https://flic.kr/p/2919243971


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## crxssi

wmcbrine said:


> I gotta go with "illegible at this resolution".


Agreed. I even looked looked at the link and all the pix there and couldn't find a standby button. I have had a several different model TiVo's and also don't remember ever seeing one.


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## lpwcomp

crxssi said:


> Agreed. I even looked looked at the link and all the pix there and couldn't find a standby button. I have had a several different model TiVo's and also don't remember ever seeing one.


So, what is your interpretation of what is says on what is now the "Zoom" button? It certainly isn't the Window symbol.


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## lpwcomp

morac said:


> TiVo does support it. This is a screenshot from a TiVo.
> 
> 
> __
> https://flic.kr/p/2919243971


The text below the photo says (emphasis mine):



> I've never seen this before, *it actually stopped the recorded program I was watching and returned to live TV to display this*.


I'll take your word for it that it isn't recorded, but it appears it will still throw you out to live TV if you are viewing a recording.


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## CoxInPHX

lpwcomp said:


> I'll take your word for it that it isn't recorded, but it appears it will still throw you out to live TV if you are viewing a recording.


My EAS messages are never included in the actual recording, it is just an overlay over live TV, on the foreground tuner.

But yes, when one occurs the TiVo is taken back to the foreground tuner for the duration of the message, pressing clear does not exit the message. it will retain and even stay at the current position in the buffer.


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## astrohip

morac said:


> I don't know why Comcast can't switch to the "new" modern EAS that doesn't interfere with recordings. Instead of changing channels, it uses the OOB data to overlay a banner on the current video, be it live or a previous recording. The overlay isn't recorded and doesn't affect recording. It's not even that new, it's been around several years.


In some areas, they do. In Houston, Comcast does exactly what you are requesting. I've posted this before, I think in the EAS thread. Banner overlay only, no recording issues.


lpwcomp said:


> Wouldn't the TiVo have to have support for this? Otherwise, I don't understand how the "overlay" would not be recorded.


It works perfect, no support from TiVo required.


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## lpwcomp

astrohip said:


> It works perfect, no support from TiVo required.


Unless you can come up with an logical mechanism for how it would work otherwise, I will continue to believe that it is simply not possible for it to work w/o the TiVo doing something. I suspect that the more likely explanation is that it was part of the EAS standard and was therefore implemented in the TiVo from the getgo.


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## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> So, what is your interpretation of what is says on what is now the "Zoom" button? It certainly isn't the Window symbol.


I spent some time digging out all my old remotes:

1. Original Peanut w/1-2 switch (button says "Aspect", which is the same as "Zoom").

2. Original Premium Glo w/1-2 switch (same as #1).

3. All later versions w/o the 1-2 switch, have re-labeled the "Aspect" button as "Zoom", but it's still the same as "Aspect".

I shopped around, looking for all available replacements. I found ones with "Zoom" & "Aspect", but none had any letters that could be construed as an abbreviation of "Standby". Some of the replacements were for the oldest of the old, including the TiVos with DVD recorders, and those w/o the TiVo name.

Just for the heck of it, I searched the menus of my TiVo HDs for a way to designate that button for Standby - not there. I also tried holding it down.

While the remotes with the A B C D buttons, without the 1-2 switch are interoperable, those extra buttons are necessary when using the Premiere HDUI.

I think somebody's eyesight and/or memory may have caused some confusion. I certainly got knocked for a loop when I saw a picture of my old original peanut remote, with claims of there being a button for Standby.

I've also changed my mind about a designated (labeled) "Standby" button. It's the new normal for device manufacturers to give you a "Power" button, which really only does what TiVo Standby Mode does: Turn off the front lights and cut the AV outputs, while not actually turning the device off. Some will power down fully if you hold the "Power" button down for ten seconds. While I don't fully agree with duping the customer with a false Power button, that is actually Standby, industries have been going that direction for some time, it's what most people are used to, and it's location is usually a top left/right quadrant, in the color red, but sometimes green.

If they could do that on a future remote, it should fit right in with what people are used to with all their other remotes for all the devices that they have in their entertainment center. Most even know that no modern device truly turns OFF when you hit the power button.

Then again, I could see people lighting up the forums asking if their TiVo would stop recording if they pressed this new button. So maybe the Button could have a customary color and universal on/off symbol, but have text right below it that states "Standby". Putting the info that the big red power button lets their TiVo keep recording on a cover the customer has to peel off, or remove from the remote before use, as well as a prominent notation in future manuals/quick start guides couldn't hurt, either.

As for the SEVERAL other benefits of using Standby Mode, that exist only in TiVo scenarios, and those that I'd like to keep around, even if it didn't save one iota of power (which it actually does), there are OTHER threads that go into great depth about it all. We don't need to explain and discuss all the EXISTING facts about it here.


----------



## lpwcomp

Prior to the S3, the button most definitely was _*not*_ labeled "Aspect". I actually still have an S2 remote where the button has a Window symbol (box with upper right quadrant filled in) on it and has "Window" in text above it, as can be clearly seen on this from the weaKnees site:










As to whether the button on the remote whose picture I initially posted has "Stdby" on it - I have looked at it using the Windows magnifier and, while I can't say for sure that the letters written on it are "Stdby", they most certainly *could* be and I have yet to see a post with an alternative interpretation. Unfortunately, that whole image is slightly blurry.

Yes, as I already admitted, my memory could be faulty (senior moment), but at this point there is no solid evidence one way or another.


----------



## morac

Many of the non-TiVo TiVo boxes had other buttons like Ratio and List.


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## morac

Here's one with a Standby button


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## nooneuknow

For those battling over the EAS matter:

There are two types:

1: The original implementation that became imbedded within the programming, thus would record into the program (and LiveTV Buffer), unless the TiVo was in Standby Mode at the time the recording was recorded (or the LiveTV buffer was buffering).

2: The newer implementation that created an overlay, which won't record into the recording, or the LiveTV buffer.

3: There's always analog cable, where no matter what your cable network supports, you WILL get EAS banners recorded into your programming. With Analog, even standby mode may not help (I don't know, since I'm only using cablecards, which are now 100% digital programming in my area).

It's the cablecard that received the EAS signal, processes it, then forces the TiVo to display it (if not in Standby Mode). It's up to your Cable Provider which of the two systems they use.

It's a government MANDATE, that all cablecard devices receive and display the EAS messages. They blessed us with the gift of it not having to be displayed if the device has it's AV outputs turned-off (one of the functions that TiVo Standby Mode provides), which is how Standby Mode suppresses it from being recorded into the buffer or a recording. 

TiVo doesn't have to do ANYTHING (other than supporting cablecards) to support these functions. It's ALL built into cable networks and cablecards. This was done by design. If your cable network supports the overlay feature, but it's not working on your TiVo, maybe you need a newer cablecard. TiVo has to support cablecard and all its functions, when it comes to one-way communication mode. By doing so, they already did all they need to do.

One thing that really is annoying me is that now all the local broadcast channels are imbedding their own CONSTANTLY REPEATING EAS messages at the bottom of the screen. So, it gets recorded/buffered, no matter what. I can find myself with one EAS message at the top of my screen, and one at the bottom, with only a thin ribbon of my programming to watch (sometimes without sound, and the Closed Captions are also disabled by it). This has NOTHING to do with TiVo, and TiVo can do nothing about it. Any anger over this should be directed at the government policy makers and, if applicable, your local broadcast stations.

Once again, you can find all this already existing information in other threads. There's far more threads centered around EAS than TiVo Standby Mode. There you can find all the info you could possibly need or want. There's no need to clutter up a software update thread with it.


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## nooneuknow

morac said:


> Here's one with a Standby button


Here's the million-dollar question: Does that button work *now*, and with what models does it work. Also, are these remotes available for purchase, now? Ok, that's more than one question... I really did take some time to look around for new remotes (for old and new model TiVos). I didn't find these. Are they out there, new, or just used?

I thought I made slot #2 on your ignore list. I guess this could just be a reply by proxy of other posts, though...


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## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> Prior to the S3, the button most definitely was _*not*_ labeled "Aspect". I actually still have an S2 remote where the button has a Window symbol (box with upper right quadrant filled in) on it and has "Window" in text above it, as can be clearly seen on this from the weaKnees site:
> 
> <image removed to save space>
> 
> As to whether the button on the remote whose picture I initially posted has "Stdby" on it - I have looked at it using the Windows magnifier and, while I can't say for sure that the letters written on it are "Stdby", they most certainly *could* be and I have yet to see a post with an alternative interpretation. Unfortunately, that whole image is slightly blurry.
> 
> Yes, as I already admitted, my memory could be faulty (senior moment), but at this point there is no solid evidence one way or another.


OK, agreed. But, how does a Window mean "standby"? There's already been a post showing a different model/brand TiVo controlling remote with a clearly labeled "Standby" button. So, I admit they exist. The questions now are do they still work, with which models, and are the remotes still made, or only "New Old Stock" or used?

Since they did exist, if they still work, that means the code is still there, and it's only a matter of getting a new remote with a button that sends the same signal. Best case scenario is that all TiVos still would support it, without TiVo having to do anything to the TiVo box itself.

EDIT/ADD: Whether or not the pins are soldered in, or left out to save money, one could always try to program the code(s) into an existing TiVo remote with the JP1 connector.


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## lpwcomp

nooneuknow said:


> OK, agreed. But, how does a Window mean "standby"?


It doesn't. As I stated in a prior post, the "Stdby" button became, i.e. _*was changed to*_ the "Window" button on later remotes and never really did anything. This change included a change to the command that was transmitted so it no longer functioned as a Standby button. Subsequent changes were presumably merely to the label as I _*think*_ the "Window" button acts just like the "Aspect" or "Zoom" button. If I get the chance, I'll try to test that proposition. Not easy as it is currently being used to control a TiVo 2 in someone else's bedroom.



nooneuknow said:


> Since they did exist, if they still work, that means the code is still there, and it's only a matter of getting a new remote with a button that sends the same signal. Best case scenario is that all TiVos still would support it, without TiVo having to do anything to the TiVo box itself.


Doubt we'll ever see that. I also doubt we'll see the assignment of one the color buttons for this as it would require a s/w mod, so would only work on a Series 4 or later and even there only on screens where that button hadn't already been assigned a function and TiVo knew that it never would be. While even *I* think it would be a simple mod, probably not worth the support headaches, e.g. "Why does my screen keep blacking out?"


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## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> It doesn't. As I stated in a prior post, the "Stdby" button became, i.e. _*was changed to*_ the "Window" button on later remotes and never really did anything. This change included a change to the command that was transmitted so it no longer functioned as a Standby button. Subsequent changes were presumably merely to the label as I _*think*_ the "Window" button acts just like the "Aspect" or "Zoom" button. If I get the chance, I'll try to test that proposition. Not easy as it is currently being used to control a TiVo 2 in someone else's bedroom.
> 
> Doubt we'll ever see that. I also doubt we'll see the assignment of one the color buttons for this as it would require a s/w mod, so would only work on a Series 4 or later and even there only on screens where that button hadn't already been assigned a function and TiVo knew that it never would be. While even *I* think it would be a simple mod, probably not worth the support headaches, e.g. "Why does my screen keep blacking out?"


OK, got it. It's sad to think that the whole future of TiVo depends on assuming everybody who uses them is too stupid to figure out anything new (or that used to be there, and is back again)...

With that mindset, TiVo can't innovate new and exciting things into new models. Their user base would be too stupid to not think something was wrong... Sad, but I know a couple of such TiVo users that fit the mold.

Maybe they should just split the product line to "TiVo Basic", where nothing changes, unless it absolutely has to, and "TiVo Pro", for those of us that can adapt to change, like change, and want to see a lot of it (and have advanced settings we can tailor to what we want).

Or... Do it like the way the Premiere has SDUI and HDUI, and you can change from an interface that looks like your old TiVo, and one that has the good stuff. Then make it super-easy to switch modes (one button, not a sequence, no multi-menu navigation to switch)...

If TiVo is a product that is bound to catering to the mentally disabled and old people, I beg the gods to give me something else, and I'll abandon TiVo.


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## dianebrat

The "window" button sends the same signal that is now used as the Aspect/Zoom button, I've used older remotes on my current machines. 

It does not send the same signal as the old Standby button, however even new machines respond to the Standby signal as Standby as witnessed by folks with universal remotes with a Standby button


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## slowbiscuit

astrohip said:


> In some areas, they do. In Houston, Comcast does exactly what you are requesting. I've posted this before, I think in the EAS thread. Banner overlay only, no recording issues.


Maybe in Houston but not in the ATL, Comcast is still doing it old-school with the white letters on black screen that gets recorded. And this is after they got rid of all the analog channels - obviously they didn't feel the need to spend the money to upgrade to overlays.


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## wmcbrine

moyekj said:


> AFAICT using the RPC equivalent works from live TV or any TiVo menu (HDUI or SDUI) that I have tried, even for example from search screen.


I can't reproduce the problem with the Crestron interface now, either. Perhaps because I just rebooted? Hmm.


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## CrispyCritter

slowbiscuit said:


> Maybe in Houston but not in the ATL, Comcast is still doing it old-school with the white letters on black screen that gets recorded. And this is after they got rid of all the analog channels - obviously they didn't feel the need to spend the money to upgrade to overlays.


I see the same locally in Maryland. It was quite a positive change when Comcast finally implemented this for us a couple years ago - the previous 2 years had all EAS cablecard "alerts" being a login screen for a Comcast linux box (running a RedHat Enterprise version of linux, if anyone is interested.)


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## JWhites

nooneuknow, here's a forum post which covers pretty much everything regarding the whole EAS. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1280119/emergency-alert-system-eas

Pretty much yeah, there is the banner alerts which don't carry audio, and the full screen slate alerts which incorporates a forced tune to the designated alert channel, usually QVC. 



 this video shows the Monroe slate screen that Comcast and other cable providers use, as opposed to the older black screen with white text shown here 




It is believed that the banner alert shown in the avs forum post is less disruptive since it doesn't change the channel during a recording, however it does still stop the playback of pre recorded content, Netflix, On Demand, and other applications, for the duration of the alert.


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## tomhorsley

TiVo could do better with the forced tune EAS alerts: They could take you back to the recording you were watching before the alert yanked you out of it, but instead, I always have to start over and fast forward to find the last thing I remember seeing.


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## morac

tomhorsley said:


> TiVo could do better with the forced tune EAS alerts: They could take you back to the recording you were watching before the alert yanked you out of it, but instead, I always have to start over and fast forward to find the last thing I remember seeing.


You shouldn't need to fast forward if you were watching a recording. It should start playing where you were just as if you had hit the Live TV button.


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## wmcbrine

Right, it used to not save your place (horrible!), but a software update fixed that. Now it's merely very annoying.


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## Bierboy

morac said:


> You shouldn't need to fast forward if you were watching a recording. It should start playing where you were just as if you had hit the Live TV button.


And that's exactly what happens. I've never "lost my place" in a recording due to an alert.


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## nooneuknow

tomhorsley said:


> TiVo could do better with the forced tune EAS alerts: They could take you back to the recording you were watching before the alert yanked you out of it, but instead, I always have to start over and fast forward to find the last thing I remember seeing.


As others have pointed out, the TiVo will take you to the point at which you were watching the recording, when the EAS happened. It even buffers back a bit. It's getting back to what you were watching, that seems unnecessarily difficult (the screen you initiated playback from).

What p's me off, it always finding myself back at TiVo Central, and having to navigate back to the screen where I initiated the playback. There are some groups of programming I watch, which are all repeats, that I use the "Explore this program" option to get the list of the dates they originally aired (this data is almost always missing from the NPL data), so I can watch them in order. It takes something like 12-20 button presses to get back to where I was. That I don't lose my place, in playback position, is nice, but getting back to the episode list, every two minutes is going to wear out my remote, although my patience wears down MUCH faster, when they post an EAS EVERY TWO MINUTES, just because there's a thunderstorm within 100 miles or more of my exact location...

I don't see why the gov't mandates for cablecard devices would require I wind up back at TiVo Central after every two-minutes between EAS messages. As long as I see the msgs, why can't I find myself at the screen I initiated playback from? This DOES seem like something TiVo could do something about. Maybe I'm wrong. Some of the legalese in the gov't mandates is highly subject to interpretation...


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## nooneuknow

JWhites said:


> nooneuknow, here's a forum post which covers pretty much everything regarding the whole EAS. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1280119/emergency-alert-system-eas
> 
> Pretty much yeah, there is the banner alerts which don't carry audio, and the full screen slate alerts which incorporates a forced tune to the designated alert channel, usually QVC. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUT0v1xhoLo[/url] this video shows the Monroe slate screen that Comcast and other cable providers use, as opposed to the older black screen with white text shown here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF4B...g, or just trying to help. But thanks anyway.


----------



## mattack

nooneuknow said:


> Or... Do it like the way the Premiere has SDUI and HDUI, and you can change from an interface that looks like your old TiVo, and one that has the good stuff.


The one that has the good stuff.. You mean the fast UI, more consistent, etc.. as in the SD UI?

I say that jokingly, since I *have* stuck in the HD UI.. largely for the free space meter. Yes, I like to basically constantly know how close to full my Tivo is. There are a few other things I appreciate in it, and have even used Explore this Show sometimes (in SD UI, it just does the same server based one as the S3/TivoHD, right?). But it is SLOOOOOOW.


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## nooneuknow

mattack said:


> The one that has the good stuff.. You mean the fast UI, more consistent, etc.. as in the SD UI?
> 
> I say that jokingly, since I *have* stuck in the HD UI.. largely for the free space meter. Yes, I like to basically constantly know how close to full my Tivo is. There are a few other things I appreciate in it, and have even used Explore this Show sometimes (in SD UI, it just does the same server based one as the S3/TivoHD, right?). But it is SLOOOOOOW.


I'm just looking for a logical way to get around hearing "That will never happen because the/a change is made, it would flood TiVo's support lines with people asking what's wrong with their TiVo" type responses I get EVERY TIME I suggest something be added or changed.

Those type responses are like saying "TiVo users are too stupid to realize that something new has been added, or they have been given more control over their TiVo".

So, why even bother releasing any newer models, except for those who want the newest product they can have? Why update the existing product line? We're all too stupid to handle the change, apparently.

So, either release two product lines, one for the dumb people, and one for the smart ones -OR- keep one product line, and make it easy to switch between dumb mode and advanced mode...

Some predict the demise of the SDUI is coming, so in it's place there could be "dumb mode", and then another "advanced mode". The key to that working is in making it so that with one button, or a main menu option, a dumb user could use dumb mode, and an advanced user could use advanced mode, on the same unit.

It's not really a comparison to what exists NOW, it's of what could exist in the future.

I'm growing weary of the mindset that any changes, other than a faster processor and/or more tuners, would cause mass user panic, flooding TiVo's support center, or that anything actually "innovative" would just be too hard for TiVo to implement. Why should it be easy?

I laugh at the thought of these hypothetical call center overloads. It's not like they actually help anybody, except those who haven't thought to reboot their boxes, or do the obvious things, that the computer generated A B C D "help" which is passed to the end-user by a drone, who only knows how to follow the computer prompts, and may not even own, or know how to use a TiVo, uses as "support"...

Then there's that whole mindset that since TiVo can't even fix existing problems, we shouldn't ask for anything new or innovative... SAD...


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## lpwcomp

Any proposed change should be subject to a cost/benefit analysis. I haven't seen _*anyone*_ exhibit the attitude that "any changes, other than a faster processor and/or more tuners, would cause mass user panic". Pointing out the reason why a change probably won't be made in no way implies agreement with that reasoning.


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## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> Any proposed change should be subject to a cost/benefit analysis. I haven't seen _*anyone*_ exhibit the attitude that "any changes, other than a faster processor and/or more tuners, would cause mass user panic". Pointing out the reason why a change probably won't be made in no way implies agreement with that reasoning.


There's plenty of that attitude in the "speculation" type/based threads for upcoming TiVo products. I abandoned those threads because of it.

Some of what I've been talking about here, really belongs there. But, I grew tired of the hostilities and/or the mindsets I've been describing here.

I don't want to flood this thread with what doesn't belong here. So, I feel I've expressed enough. I'm sure plenty of disagreement will follow. I have no issue with disagreement. I encourage it, if it can be a type of "constructive criticism" scenario.

What more can really say? I'm now going to try and let the thread re-focus on the update it was formed to address. Cheers.


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## slowbiscuit

Damn dude, you take this stuff way too seriously. Might want to get some help.


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## Bierboy

slowbiscuit said:


> Damn dude, you take this stuff way too seriously. Might want to get some help.


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## JWhites

tomhorsley said:


> TiVo could do better with the forced tune EAS alerts: They could take you back to the recording you were watching before the alert yanked you out of it, but instead, I always have to start over and fast forward to find the last thing I remember seeing.


That never happens to me, I just go back into the Now Playing list and select "resume" and pick up where I left off.


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## JWhites

nooneuknow said:


> Thanks. I always like outside links. I'm not sure if you are saying I'm wrong about something, or just trying to help. But thanks anyway.


No I wasn't saying you were wrong, I was just pointing out that everything that was said was already covered in great detail both on this forum several times over the years as well as on the AVS Forum thanks to Mike, in case you wanted more references and examples.


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## JWhites

nooneuknow said:


> I'm just looking for a logical way to get around hearing "That will never happen because the/a change is made, it would flood TiVo's support lines with people asking what's wrong with their TiVo" type responses I get EVERY TIME I suggest something be added or changed.
> 
> Those type responses are like saying "TiVo users are too stupid to realize that something new has been added, or they have been given more control over their TiVo".
> 
> So, why even bother releasing any newer models, except for those who want the newest product they can have? Why update the existing product line? We're all too stupid to handle the change, apparently.
> 
> So, either release two product lines, one for the dumb people, and one for the smart ones -OR- keep one product line, and make it easy to switch between dumb mode and advanced mode...
> 
> Some predict the demise of the SDUI is coming, so in it's place there could be "dumb mode", and then another "advanced mode". The key to that working is in making it so that with one button, or a main menu option, a dumb user could use dumb mode, and an advanced user could use advanced mode, on the same unit.
> 
> It's not really a comparison to what exists NOW, it's of what could exist in the future.
> 
> I'm growing weary of the mindset that any changes, other than a faster processor and/or more tuners, would cause mass user panic, flooding TiVo's support center, or that anything actually "innovative" would just be too hard for TiVo to implement. Why should it be easy?
> 
> I laugh at the thought of these hypothetical call center overloads. It's not like they actually help anybody, except those who haven't thought to reboot their boxes, or do the obvious things, that the computer generated A B C D "help" which is passed to the end-user by a drone, who only knows how to follow the computer prompts, and may not even own, or know how to use a TiVo, uses as "support"...
> 
> Then there's that whole mindset that since TiVo can't even fix existing problems, we shouldn't ask for anything new or innovative... SAD...


I just find it funny when people say that their 3 year old and/or 93 year old relative can operate the TiVo HDUI without a problem, yet there are otherwise normal middle aged people who claim they can't make heads or tails in how to use it and default to the SDUI.


----------



## mattack

JWhites said:


> I just find it funny when people say that their 3 year old and/or 93 year old relative can operate the TiVo HDUI without a problem, yet there are otherwise normal middle aged people who claim they can't make heads or tails in how to use it and default to the SDUI.


??? There are reasons (faster) to use the SDUI other than not understanding the HDUI.
Again, I'm still sticking with HD UI, but god, I repeatedly hit keys because it's so glacially slow... (and my P4 is slightly out of the way and literally DOES miss remote presses once in a while).


----------



## JWhites

mattack said:


> ??? There are reasons (faster) to use the SDUI other than not understanding the HDUI.
> Again, I'm still sticking with HD UI, but god, I repeatedly hit keys because it's so glacially slow... (and my P4 is slightly out of the way and literally DOES miss remote presses once in a while).


Oh I know the SDUI is slightly faster, not doubting you at all.


----------



## Bierboy

JWhites said:


> I just find it funny when people say that their 3 year old and/or 93 year old relative can operate the TiVo HDUI without a problem, yet there are otherwise normal middle aged people who claim they can't make heads or tails in how to use it and default to the SDUI.


 Why do you find that funny? Seems perfectly possible to me....it's just human nature.


----------



## nooneuknow

JWhites said:


> That never happens to me, I just go back into the Now Playing list and select "resume" and pick up where I left off.


I think you are missing the point (or maybe one point). Not everybody uses the NPL to pick what show to watch. Even those that do, may not be able to remember what episode they were on. Also, try going into "Explore this show", Episode List, find the one you want, watch a bit, then get bounced out (pressing the TiVo button is a good re-creation of this), and see how much harder it is to get back to your program you were watching. It isn't highlighted for me in the NPL, if I try looking there first, nor is it highlighted when exploring the program, upon return to the episode list.

Some people, for various reasons (like missing/incomplete guide data, or missing program/episode data), NEED TO use the Episode List to watch the shows in the order they belong, as opposed to the order they are listed/recorded. It's not like the NPL will tell you what episode, out of 107 or more, you need to start watching, and the next one may not be the next in the NPL list (I have over 300 episodes of one show, and it'd be chaotic without an Episode List to use). Count how many button presses it takes to do it this way, consider that some people may have to do it this way, and imagine having to keep repeating all that navigating EVERY TWO MINUTES (my area's EAS frequency).

Maybe this doesn't happen to everybody, but it does on all four of my TiVo Premiere 2-tuner models, and the two HDs I have, as well.

Can anybody say that they DON'T get bounced to TiVo Central? Are others getting the luxury of NOT being sent back to square one?


----------



## nooneuknow

JWhites said:


> No I wasn't saying you were wrong, I was just pointing out that everything that was said was already covered in great detail both on this forum several times over the years as well as on the AVS Forum thanks to Mike, in case you wanted more references and examples.


Thank again. Then.


----------



## nooneuknow

JWhites said:


> I just find it funny when people say that their 3 year old and/or 93 year old relative can operate the TiVo HDUI without a problem, yet there are otherwise normal middle aged people who claim they can't make heads or tails in how to use it and default to the SDUI.


There are no shortages of funny/ironic/unbelievable things I've heard about TiVo users. Like I've said, even though I find people who say changes would be bad because people would think something was wrong, there are a couple TiVo users I personally know who need to be told about EVERY little difference an update makes, or they DO think something is wrong. Yes, they are elderly, and only one even knows how to use a computer (Barely. Just enough to keep me busy fixing it, because she refuses to read directions, or follow SIMPLE instructions).

I just don't like the future of TiVo being dependent upon people like I just described. I'd rather have TiVo move forward, give those two people cableco DVRs, and when they can't figure those out, tell them to call Cox. If one were to believe Cox advertisements, they'd have no issue with helping them for hours on end, over the most simple things, that a 3yr old could figure out, just like you said.


----------



## Bierboy

nooneuknow said:


> There are no shortages of funny/ironic/unbelievable things I've heard about TiVo users. Like I've said, even though I find people who say changes would be bad because people would think something was wrong, there are a couple TiVo users I personally know who need to be told about EVERY little difference an update makes, or they DO think something is wrong. Yes, they are elderly, and only one even knows how to use a computer (Barely. Just enough to keep me busy fixing it, because she refuses to read directions, or follow SIMPLE instructions).
> 
> _*I just don't like the future of TiVo being dependent upon people like I just described. I*_'d rather have TiVo move forward, give those two people cableco DVRs, and when they can't figure those out, tell them to call Cox. If one were to believe Cox advertisements, they'd have no issue with helping them for hours on end, over the most simple things, that a 3yr old could figure out, just like you said.


----------



## nooneuknow

Bierboy said:


>


The only thing I feel could be more clear about that post is that while I want TiVo to move forward, and make changes, so that I can enjoy them, I'd tell the other two TiVo users in the house to get Cox DVRs, and call Cox with every question that they have, and have Cox keep telling them how to use them.

In other words, while I understand some people can't handle change, and I know some of them, I wouldn't hesitate to advise them to get a cableco DVR, and drop TiVo, while I'd enjoy all the changes and innovation that TiVo can muster.

I was actually agreeing with JWhites anecdote, albeit in a bit long-winded way.


----------



## nooneuknow

So, what's the verdict/status, for those who decided to open support tickets (incident numbers)?

Did they wind up under "My Support" on your online TiVo account?

Did TiVo just close them, and/or rubber stamp them as "solved"?


----------



## Bierboy

I opened one, and they emailed a reply that was nonsense...they act like you're an idiot who hasn't tried these things...

_*"Thank you for contacting TiVo Customer Support. I apologize for the troubles you've had with Audio syncing. I would be more than happy to help you with this!

Answer Title: My audio and video are out of sync
Answer Link: http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/334

The link will assist in resolving your audio issue.

A few addition questions is the issue persists -

- Does a power cycle resolve? 
- What cable are you using?
- Do you have a A/V receiver? What model?
- Does changing the audio settings resolve? (Dolby Audio or PCM?)

Please contact us again if you have any questions or concerns and we would be happy to help you. Thank you for choosing TiVo and have a great day!"*_


----------



## nooneuknow

Bierboy said:


> I opened one, and they emailed a reply that was nonsense...they act like you're an idiot who hasn't tried these things...
> 
> _*"Thank you for contacting TiVo Customer Support. I apologize for the troubles you've had with Audio syncing. I would be more than happy to help you with this!
> 
> Answer Title: My audio and video are out of sync
> Answer Link: http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/334
> 
> The link will assist in resolving your audio issue.
> 
> A few addition questions is the issue persists -
> 
> - Does a power cycle resolve?
> - What cable are you using?
> - Do you have a A/V receiver? What model?
> - Does changing the audio settings resolve? (Dolby Audio or PCM?)
> 
> Please contact us again if you have any questions or concerns and we would be happy to help you. Thank you for choosing TiVo and have a great day!"*_


Judging by the way they wrote that, the incident/ticked will show "closed" or "resolved" if you look under "My Support" over at TiVo.com.

May I suggest you use your charming personality to tell them that you have done all this more than once (I'm sure you have), and demand that they keep the incident number (support ticket) open, until it actually is?

I'm sure you'll love how they respond to that, and how they will auto-close any new incident/support tickets you open for the same issue.

I'd like to hear from anybody else that submitted, as well, if that's not to much to ask.

Like I said: A closed ticket on an unresolved issue is a trail. A bunch of them is a pattern.

We'll never get anywhere without establishing this trail and pattern. It needs to be brought to the attention of TiVo Executive Relations. That's the top of the TiVo pyramid.

I politely suggest that everybody keep doing what TiVo says we are supposed to: REPORT DIRECTLY TO THEM. Don't let them blow you off. Make sure you have done all applicable things they suggest, and when they blow you off like this, DEMAND "ESCALATION". That's the key word for getting it moved up the tiers. It may take more than one escalation to get to the Executive Relations level. But, from experience, it is worth it.

EDIT/ADD: I think we can all agree that TiVo's current practice of closing-out incident numbers/support tickets as "resolved" or "closed", just because they talked to you, emailed you, or just couldn't help you is completely and utterly UNNACTEPTABLE.


----------



## compnurd

this thread has gone sideways really quick


----------



## nooneuknow

compnurd said:


> this thread has gone sideways really quick


Well, considering how long it's been since the update it is for rolled, I really don't see it being long before it's obsolete, anyway. Soon, I expect a fall update, and a whole new thread. I think all the unresolved and new issues with this update have been brought to light. Now, we just have to badger TiVo into actually fixing what went unfixed, and properly addressing any new fixes needed.

My new focus: Get TiVo to pay attention, and stop the practice of closing incident reports (support tickets), whether or not they actually resolved the matter.

I'm sure the O.P. will speak up if he feels his thread has gone too far sideways.


----------



## compnurd

nooneuknow said:


> Well, considering how long it's been since the update it is for rolled, I really don't see it being long before it's obsolete, anyway. Soon, I expect a fall update, and a whole new thread. I think all the unresolved and new issues with this update have been brought to light. Now, we just have to badger TiVo into actually fixing what went unfixed, and properly addressing any new fixes needed.
> 
> My new focus: Get TiVo to pay attention, and stop the practice of closing incident reports (support tickets), whether or not they actually resolved the matter.
> 
> I'm sure the O.P. will speak up if he feels his thread has gone too far sideways.


Actually i blame you for it going sideways... half the crap in here should have it's own topic.. Counting the days till I go back to Direct TV...


----------



## astrohip

JWhites said:


> I just find it funny when people say that their 3 year old and/or 93 year old relative can operate the TiVo HDUI without a problem, yet there are otherwise normal middle aged people who claim they can't make heads or tails in how to use it and default to the SDUI.


I use the SDUI because I like the speed. The way I use my TiVo, all I care about is speed. I'm a normal  middle-aged people, who once they make the HDUI as fast as the SDUI, will switch.


compnurd said:


> this thread has gone sideways really quick


QFT. NOuK has mastered the art of passive-aggressive thread drift.


----------



## nooneuknow

compnurd said:


> Actually i blame you for it going sideways... half the crap in here should have it's own topic.. Counting the days till I go back to Direct TV...


I may not remember what I ate for lunch yesterday, but I remember who likes to take cheap shots. Blame me all you like. I didn't expect expressing a few wishes, like for a quicker way into standby to throw things into full-tilt.

The last fully On-Topic posts were about submitting actual reports to TiVo about certain issues pertinent to the thread. I tried to use that as an anchor to steer the thread back. I'm sure you see it differently. You always do...

So, is there anything you can contribute that is On-Topic? If not, anything further is just pot & kettle then.


----------



## compnurd

astrohip said:


> QFT. NOuK has mastered the art of passive-aggressive thread drift.


:up:


----------



## JWhites

.........moving on.......
Has anyone noticed any new problems since they received the 20.3.1 update? Has any of the users who didn't notice problems initially such as the program description truncation, have started to notice it now?


----------



## ggieseke

I've noticed that the port test doesn't seem to work anymore.


----------



## compnurd

JWhites said:


> .........moving on.......
> Has anyone noticed any new problems since they received the 20.3.1 update? Has any of the users who didn't notice problems initially such as the program description truncation, have started to notice it now?


to me no... the 20.3.1 updates is no different than the previous fall update


----------



## Bierboy

I did not have the audio drop on FF problem until the update...


----------



## JWhites

ok thanks. I've noticed new channel logos where there weren't any before, but I doubt that the two are related.


----------



## JoeKustra

I feel like an outcast since I don't have any issues. The signal meter being broken isn't an issue since I have cable only and my TV has its own SNR in its diags. That whole issue has me scratching my head since I always thought digital was yes/no and "maybe" died with analog. The shortened descriptions aren't a problem since I don't trust guide info and use Zap2It. I seldom pause live TV (on purpose) and never have an audio issue. I use the HDUI and don't find it slow. I guess I would be a bad beta tester. I never have a lockup or reboot. I do power cycle once a month which may not be related. My unit is on a UPS and feeds an AVR via HDMI. All I watch is HD and only have 20 or so channels on my favorite list and suggestions are disabled. Anything else?


----------



## JoeKustra

JWhites said:


> ok thanks. I've noticed new channel logos where there weren't any before, but I doubt that the two are related.


A friend with a new TiVo sent them a list of all missing network logos a few weeks ago. I was missing msnbc, now i'm not. It may not be related.


----------



## nooneuknow

ggieseke said:


> I've noticed that the port test doesn't seem to work anymore.


Same here. I wouldn't have noticed, except I was trying to beef up my gateway firewall. So, I can't say for certain it was introduced with this update. I had to resort to the lowest level of security, or lose my active TiVo service connection. The port test would just freeze up, or would pass, but the TiVo would STILL lose the active connection, and complain until I switched things back.

I tried port forwarding, as well as triggering, all the ports that the TiVo support articles, and the TiVo itself, said needed to be open, no joy...


----------



## morac

ggieseke said:


> I've noticed that the port test doesn't seem to work anymore.


I believe that's a server side problem as it's also failing on my older Series 3 model. I can't even ping the IP address that the TiVo is trying to connect to.


----------



## nooneuknow

Bierboy said:


> I did not have the audio drop on FF problem until the update...


How about the signal strength indicators not working? Is that one you are experiencing?

FYI: They may work briefly, but will then freeze, and give false readings (if your model is one afflicted with the issue).


----------



## Bierboy

nooneuknow said:


> How about the signal strength indicators not working? Is that one you are experiencing?
> 
> FYI: They may work briefly, but will then freeze, and give false readings (if your model is one afflicted with the issue).


Not sure what that issue is; I've only had my XL4 since December, and I hadn't used the signal strength meters before the update so I don't know what I should or should not be seeing. What I DO see is that every channel registers 94...


----------



## lpwcomp

I am not sure how to categorize this except as a "gotcha".

It involves the ability to schedule a recording or create an SP on a Premiere other than the one to which you are directly connected.

While "on" Premiere 1, start streaming a recording from Premiere 2 to Premiere 1. Go to "live" TV. You are obviously no longer using Premiere 2. Bring up the guide. Select a show and either "Recording Options" or "Explore this show". Notice that the TiVo name now reflects that of Premiere 2 and if you either schedule the recording or create an SP, it will be on Premiere 2.

This is just like bringing up the guide while streaming. The difference is that is is probably what you intended while if you wnet to "live" TV first, probably not.


----------



## compnurd

Bierboy said:


> Not sure what that issue is; I've only had my XL4 since December, and I hadn't used the signal strength meters before the update so I don't know what I should or should not be seeing. What I DO see is that every channel registers 94...


+1 dont use mine either.. Just tested it for a couple of minutes and worked fine


----------



## nooneuknow

Bierboy said:


> Not sure what that issue is; I've only had my XL4 since December, and I hadn't used the signal strength meters before the update so I don't know what I should or should not be seeing. What I DO see is that every channel registers 94...


So, you may be actually seeing the problem, but don't know it is one, from what you just said.

If you use DVR Diagnostics screen, you should see a slight fluctuation when on a channel, and it should also vary between channels. You should see a bigger difference when one channel is at a high frequency, like 609000KHz, versus one at 69000KHz.

It's not uncommon for people to not use these functions, unless they are troubleshooting. Some are always taking a peak, especially if they suspect signal issues. Some are just OCD (I guess that would be me).

I think this problem is so bad, that you could disconnect the coax in, and instead of seeing the signal drop to zero, you'd still see "94", in your case. I haven't actually tried this, but I think somebody else posted that once the signal strength locks, nothing but a reboot will give an accurate reading, and only until it locks again...

Some of us know what our favorite channels are usually at, so we are like "WTF!?!?!", when all channels show the same levels and there is no variation, that we also know the normal range of (like the strength should drop during the heat of the day, and rise in the cool of the night, due to heat increasing resistance on the feed signal).

Side note, more for somebody else (trying not to directly feed a troll): Just because YOU don't use it regularly, doesn't mean something that has worked the whole life of the unit, until THIS update, isn't an issue, and doesn't deserve to be fixed. It's a VERY necessary function, that MUST work, if you were to start having problems with your programs, and needed the information provided there. Working for a couple minutes is not enough if you need to prove that you're getting a bad signal from your cableco. Unless you own a signal analyzer that costs more than a decent used car, this is where you have to get your readouts from. A two minute window of time if often not enough to be sure there isn't a problem that may be intermittent, or cable network load related.


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> I am not sure how to categorize this except as a "gotcha".
> 
> It involves the ability to schedule a recording or create an SP on a Premiere other than the one to which you are directly connected.
> 
> While "on" Premiere 1, start streaming a recording from Premiere 2 to Premiere 1. Go to "live" TV. You are obviously no longer using Premiere 2. Bring up the guide. Select a show and either "Recording Options" or "Explore this show". Notice that the TiVo name now reflects that of Premiere 2 and if you either schedule the recording or create an SP, it will be on Premiere 2.
> 
> This is just like bringing up the guide while streaming. The difference is that is is probably what you intended while if you wnet to "live" TV first, probably not.


Uh, I'm having a hard time with what you are stating (are you reporting what you think may be an issue?). Without giving the users any notice, we now have the ability to schedule season passes on other Premieres, from a Premiere. This came with the previous update. Are you saying you found a bug in this unannounced feature, or wondering if the remote scheduling itself is some sort of bug?

I'm not trying to undermine you. I just want to be sure of what you are saying. That's all.


----------



## nooneuknow

Bierboy said:


> Not sure what that issue is; I've only had my XL4 since December, and I hadn't used the signal strength meters before the update so I don't know what I should or should not be seeing. What I DO see is that every channel registers 94...


Just to be a bit more through: Are you using a Tuning Adapter? If you are, it will have it's own diag screens, with signal data, and the TiVo won't/can't affect those readings. Since my area was just forced to use them, I now can get readings from there, as opposed to the TiVo (but through the TiVo to get to them). It's just a matter of navigating the TA screens, through the TiVo, instead of using what is built-into the TiVo.

It's still good to have both working, especially since there's more than one way to hook up a TA, and the method you use can either drop the signal the TiVo receives, or boost it. If it boosts it to high, it can cause issues, just like a weak signal can.

FYI: 94 is a VERY good level. It's not good for it to sit at 100 all the time, which can mean the signal is too strong (100 is as high as it can read, no matter how strong the signal is).


----------



## lpwcomp

nooneuknow said:


> Uh, I'm having a hard time with what you are stating (are you reporting what you think may be an issue?). Without giving the users any notice, we now have the ability to schedule season passes on other Premieres, from a Premiere. This came with the previous update.


I didn't notice it with the previous update. BTW, it is not just season passes.



nooneuknow said:


> Are you saying you found a bug in this unannounced feature, or wondering if the remote scheduling itself is some sort of bug?


What I am saying is that if someone goes to "live" TV before bringing up the guide, it is more likely that they intended to schedule something on the "local"* Premiere rather than the remote one. However, I deliberately did not say it was a bug, but a "gotcha", IOW something you have to be take notice of.

I did just encounter a bug when accessing a Premiere from another. I "Permanently deleted" a recording on the other Premiere. It succeeded but the "local"* Premiere was now hung on the "Permanently delete" confirmation screen. Had to power cycle to get out of it.

* The reason I am putting local in quotes is that just about every day I am auto pushing at least one recording to a truly remote TiVo. It is not only not on the same network or account, it is not in the same county.


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> I didn't notice it with the previous update. BTW, it is not just season passes.
> 
> What I am saying is that if someone goes to "live" TV before bringing up the guide, it is more likely that they intended to schedule something on the "local"* Premiere rather than the remote one. However, I deliberately did not say it was a bug, but a "gotcha", IOW something you have to be take notice of.
> 
> I did just encounter a bug when accessing a Premiere from another. I "Permanently deleted" a recording on the other Premiere. It succeeded but the "local"* Premiere was now hung on the "Permanently delete" confirmation screen. Had to power cycle to get out of it.
> 
> * The reason I am putting local in quotes is that just about every day I am auto pushing at least one recording to a truly remote TiVo. It is not only not on the same network or account, it is not in the same county.


Yep, it silently went into the previous update. I found it by accident. I know it can do more than SPs, like individual programs, remote exploring, and a few other small things. Did you find it can do even more?

I think I understand the rest now. I really have nothing to contribute on that portion. I'm just curious if there's even more I can do remotely.

I, too, have had hang-ups, when using these undisclosed features. I figure, until they announce them, they might be meant as easter eggs, rather than for the mainstream... It's hard to tell anymore. Sometimes they announce things, sometimes they just roll them...


----------



## lpwcomp

nooneuknow said:


> FYI: 94 is a VERY good level. It's not good for it to sit at 100 all the time, which can mean the signal is too strong (100 is as high as it can read, no matter how strong the signal is).


You're missing the point about the "94%". Some people have reported that it _*always*_ reports that level, no matter what the true level is. I personally have not seen this.


----------



## Bierboy

lpwcomp said:


> You're missing the point about the "94%". Some people have reported that it _*always*_ reports that level, no matter what the true level is. I personally have not seen this.


heh...and how are we supposed to know what the "true level" should be?....just sayin....


----------



## lpwcomp

Bierboy said:


> heh...and how are we supposed to know what the "true level" should be?....just sayin....


Well, if "live" TV is reporting "No Signal", wouldn't you expect the signal strength meter to read "0"?...just sayin'...


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> You're missing the point about the "94%". Some people have reported that it _*always*_ reports that level, no matter what the true level is. I personally have not seen this.


No, I either wasn't clear enough, or you simply misunderstood me.

I only meant that a "true level" or one that isn't locked and always sitting there, that is showing ~94, is a good level.

I have the issue (that you describe) where my TiVo locks at a level, and fails to update. I meant if the level is updating, and shows ~94, that's a good level.


----------



## lpwcomp

nooneuknow said:


> No, I either wasn't clear enough, or you simply misunderstood me.
> 
> I only meant that a "true level" or one that isn't locked and always sitting there, that is showing ~94, is a good level.


Oh, OK.



nooneuknow said:


> I have the issue (that you describe) where my TiVo locks at a level, and fails to update. I meant if the level is updating, and shows ~94, that's a good level.


As I said, I haven't seen that but if I had, it is preferable to having an attempt to access the reading hanging the TiVo, which my THD is wont to do.


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> Oh, OK.
> 
> As I said, I haven't seen that but if I had, it is preferable to having an attempt to access the reading hanging the TiVo, which my THD is wont to do.


Yeah, I have that with all my THDs, too, if they have been running without a reboot for some time (months), and I go into DVR Diags. It does suck having the whole unit lock up.

So, I guess we should be thankful that TiVo only screwed up the Premiere enough to freeze the readings, but not the whole DVR, like the THD does...

I wonder if a Premiere running the SDUI, for months, would also now lock up completely at DVR Diags... I haven't seen any reports of that, though.

Sad, the things we have to be thankful for, isn't it?

I think this is one of those issues that whether or not your signal strength continues updating, or freezes on a level, is one of those bugs that only affects certain models of Premiere. I hate any issues of such type, as it leads to arguments and bickering, since some are stricken, some are not...

So as to follow-through with my own, long-ago, request that people be more specific about what model they are reporting issues, or lack thereof, on: Qty 4 - TiVo Premiere TCD746320 2-Tuner w/2TB drives (half non-AF, half AF drives).


----------



## Bierboy

lpwcomp said:


> Well, if "live" TV is reporting "No Signal", wouldn't you expect the signal strength meter to read "0"?...just sayin'...


Hey...as long as I get the picture and the audio, I'm cookin' with peanut oil...


----------



## JWhites

JoeKustra said:


> A friend with a new TiVo sent them a list of all missing network logos a few weeks ago. I was missing msnbc, now i'm not. It may not be related.


I sent in like 60 channels with the channel number, call letters, and a link to the correct channel logo from logopedia.com. Problem is we've been sending these in since 2010 with no progress being made until recently. I'd hate to think there was a three year turn around rate.


----------



## JWhites

lpwcomp said:


> I am not sure how to categorize this except as a "gotcha".
> 
> It involves the ability to schedule a recording or create an SP on a Premiere other than the one to which you are directly connected.
> 
> While "on" Premiere 1, start streaming a recording from Premiere 2 to Premiere 1. Go to "live" TV. You are obviously no longer using Premiere 2. Bring up the guide. Select a show and either "Recording Options" or "Explore this show". Notice that the TiVo name now reflects that of Premiere 2 and if you either schedule the recording or create an SP, it will be on Premiere 2.
> 
> This is just like bringing up the guide while streaming. The difference is that is is probably what you intended while if you wnet to "live" TV first, probably not.


I do notice that if I'm streaming a show located in the bedroom on the living room, and I think go to schedule something while in the living room, it says the recording or season pass was placed on the bedroom DVR, even though I didn't.


----------



## lpwcomp

JWhites said:


> I do notice that if I'm streaming a show located in the bedroom on the living room, and I think go to schedule something while in the living room, it says the recording or season pass was placed on the bedroom DVR, even though I didn't.


If you do it while actively streaming or browsing the other TiVo, then I would expect it behave as it does. The "gotcha" comes when you go to live TV first and so are no longer actively accessing the other TiVo. At that point, one might assume that you would be scheduling on the "local" TiVo and one would be wrong in that assumption.

It's not a big issue, it's just one that people need to be aware of.


----------



## JWhites

lpwcomp said:


> If you do it while actively streaming or browsing the other TiVo, then I would expect it behave as it does. The "gotcha" comes when you go to live TV first and so are no longer actively accessing the other TiVo. At that point, one might assume that you would be scheduling on the "local" TiVo and one would be wrong in that assumption.
> 
> It's not a big issue, it's just one that people need to be aware of.


I think I've experienced that too. Personally I wish it was an actual option instead of a bug because sometimes I don't feel like getting up and turning on the tv in the other room just to program something.


----------



## nooneuknow

JWhites said:


> I think I've experienced that too. Personally I wish it was an actual option instead of a bug because sometimes I don't feel like getting up and turning on the tv in the other room just to program something.


Once I realized it was even a possibility, by accident, after the last update, I started making sure to check my Season Pass manager afterwards.

I generally always did this before, so it was already SOP for me. Now, it's a "gotcha" avoidance measure.

I can't imagine many people not checking the SP manager. I never leave a new recording at the bottom.

Part of the "why" (for me) is due to the two "tuner parking" SPs I have at the bottom of the list that tune each tuner to a non-existent channel at 4AM every day. It seems to help Garbage Collection complete (and faster), and gives the drive a break from always buffering two streams. I don't have to put my TAs on light timers or unplug the USB cable to keep my Guide Data flowing and suggestions working with this method. It also lets transfers flow faster, especially if in standby.

Not moving any new SPs could cause an issue, but only if the recording would be affected by a 1 minute long SP on each tuner at 4AM.


----------



## JoeKustra

JWhites said:


> I sent in like 60 channels with the channel number, call letters, and a link to the correct channel logo from logopedia.com. Problem is we've been sending these in since 2010 with no progress being made until recently. I'd hate to think there was a three year turn around rate.


With TVGOS I had channel logos for many "local" stations, but none with the TiVo. The TiVo shows the network logo when possible.


----------



## lpwcomp

nooneuknow said:


> Once I realized it was even a possibility, by accident, after the last update, I started making sure to check my Season Pass manager afterwards.
> 
> I generally always did this before, so it was already SOP for me. Now, it's a "gotcha" avoidance measure.
> 
> I can't imagine many people not checking the SP manager. I never leave a new recording at the bottom.


Since you can also create one time recordings this way, checking the SPM won't avoid all of the "gotchas".

Also, while it appears to give you the option to cancel the season pass, it doesn't actually do it. I had to use the TiVo app on my phone to do it since I didn't feel like going into the living room.


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> Since you can also create one time recordings this way, checking the SPM won't avoid all of the "gotchas".
> 
> Also, while it appears to give you the option to cancel the season pass, it doesn't actually do it. I had to use the TiVo app on my phone to do it since I didn't feel like going into the living room.


I did run into that situation. I don't know if it should be considered a bug, or if it's intentional, as a protective measure (like preventing me from accidentally cancelling "Days of Our Lives" from the TiVo my mother uses)... It sure would've been nice if TiVo would have at least told us they gave us the new features, and what limitations they might have...

I check my TDL as well, for one-time recordings. But, not everybody double-checks everything, like I do... The ONE time I don't make sure something will record will always be the ONE time it doesn't...


----------



## JWhites

JoeKustra said:


> With TVGOS I had channel logos for many "local" stations, but none with the TiVo. The TiVo shows the network logo when possible.


With Moxi, who also uses Tribune Media for their channel guide data, when a customer noticed the wrong (station changed format and call letters such as Discovery Kid's now being The Hub) or outdated logo (sometimes stations redesign them) or missing logo all together, there was a one week turnaround on logos they had available to roll out with the Thursday reboots, and if they didn't have a logo, they'd create it themselves. How's _that_ for service? They use http://logos.wikia.com/wiki/Logopedia as their resource.


----------



## richsadams

I'll add a double "me too" to the "FF then no audio" issue on our Premiere Elite (v20.3.1) others have mentioned. Hitting pause then pause again to play resolves it. It doesn't happen every time and I don't see a configuration (recording on two channels, broadband download at the time, etc.) that triggers it, but when it happens it is very annoying.

Additionally my brother-in-law just set up his brand new Premiere XL4 and immediately ran into the same problem (and holds me responsible for recommending he buy one  ).

I used to keep up with all of this stuff but haven't been here for quite a while (which is good news I suppose). However it appears that the audio problem began with the last update if I'm not mistaken? Hope TiVo resolves this soon.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> I'll add a double "me too" to the "FF then no audio" issue on our Premiere Elite (v20.3.1) others have mentioned. Hitting pause then pause again to play resolves it. It doesn't happen every time and I don't see a configuration (recording on two channels, broadband download at the time, etc.) that triggers it, but when it happens it is very annoying.
> 
> Additionally my brother-in-law just set up his brand new Premiere XL4 and immediately ran into the same problem (and holds me responsible for recommending he buy one  ).
> 
> I used to keep up with all of this stuff but haven't been here for quite a while (which is good news I suppose). However it appears that the audio problem began with the last update if I'm not mistaken? Hope TiVo resolves this soon.


HELLO!!! We now have a P4 and an XL4 on FiOS (still). I have even reported this issue and TIVO said they will look into it! Sure.

How are you doing? Your PM is FULL.


----------



## ah30k

I put a support email into Tivo about the FF problem. They acknowledged the bug and added my TSN to some list to send the fix out to me during the field testing window (whenever that might be).

If you want to get the fix sooner and are willing to be a pre-release tester then call support and have them add your TSN to the list.


----------



## nooneuknow

ah30k said:


> I put a support email into Tivo about the FF problem. They acknowledged the bug and added my TSN to some list to send the fix out to me during the field testing window (whenever that might be).
> 
> If you want to get the fix sooner and are willing to be a pre-release tester then call support and have them add your TSN to the list.


Unless they make/made an exception, field testing/trials are subject to a NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement). Once agreed to, you aren't supposed to talk about it. They may have failed to mention it, or you may have just got yourself removed from the list, if you did agree to it (and your post gets noticed and/or reported).

Field Testing/Trials are generally a more publicly available extension of beta-testing. If it hasn't commenced yet, you may be OK. It's generally the first two rules of Fight Club, once you have been cleared to begin.

Personally, I find being prohibited from discussing such matters publicly, more of a curse, than a blessing.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> HELLO!!! We now have a P4 and an XL4 on FiOS (still). I have even reported this issue and TIVO said they will look into it! Sure.
> 
> How are you doing? Your PM is FULL.


Doing well thanks. We ended up dumping Frontier...what a nightmare. Comcast is, well, Comcast. They recently upgraded their broadband speeds so regularly getting 60Mbps (sometimes higher) down and about 15Mpbs up...nice. Although the broadband wasn't that fast I really do miss Verizon FiOS. 

Frontier's begging us to come back now. I suspect they never imagined how many customers they could scare away with their unbelievable ineptitude. When the Comcast term is up we may look at switching again...or by then we may reach or goal of cutting the cable completely - which would mean we'd have to sell our Elite and go back to a Premiere 2 channel to use an antenna. We'll see.

I do like our Elite though...nice to see four channels plus broadband downloads going all at the same time now and then. 

Hope all is well and enjoy the awesome summer weather!


----------



## richsadams

ah30k said:


> I put a support email into Tivo about the FF problem. They acknowledged the bug and added my TSN to some list to send the fix out to me during the field testing window (whenever that might be).
> 
> If you want to get the fix sooner and are willing to be a pre-release tester then call support and have them add your TSN to the list.


Yep, did that right away...just took me a while to get around to posting. Brother-in-law did the same.

TiVo sent a nice response acknowledging the issue...



> Thank you for contacting TiVo Customer Support. I would be glad to help you with your audio issue.
> 
> This is currently a known issue with the Premiere's software version that we are in the process of fixing. While we don't have an ETA on this fix, it has been identified and will be updated automatically as soon as this fix is available. As a workaround, you should be able to pause and unpause to restore audio or change the channel and then change back.
> 
> Thanks for letting us know you are affected. I have added your TiVo box to the tracking for this bug so you can be on a priority list for updates!


So we'll see how long it takes to resolve it. It's not a deal breaker, just annoying.

Cheers,

Rich


----------



## Bierboy

richsadams said:


> Yep, did that right away...just took me a while to get around to posting. Brother-in-law did the same.
> 
> TiVo sent a nice response acknowledging the issue...
> 
> So we'll see how long it takes to resolve it. It's not a deal breaker, just annoying.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Rich


That response was a LOT more intelligent than the BS I got (see my previous post quoting their "response")....and, upon checking the status of my issue, they now say it's "solved". Unbelievable...they never responded to my answers to their original nonsense.


----------



## richsadams

Bierboy said:


> That response was a LOT more intelligent than the BS I got (see my previous post quoting their "response")....and, upon checking the status of my issue, they now say it's "solved". Unbelievable...they never responded to my answers to their original nonsense.


Interesting. It looks like they got it wrong...thinking your audio and video were out of sync instead of the audio just not working after FF.

Guess I'd file a new support ticket. Perhaps they'll get it right this time.

FWIW, here's what I told them:



> Hello. Since the May update our TiVo Premiere Elite (xxx-xxx-xxx) loses audio after FF periodically. We have to hit pause then pause again for the audio to return.
> 
> We understand this is a known problem, but we wanted to add our TiVo to the list of ones having this issue.


Best of luck!


----------



## Bierboy

I don't know how much more clear I could have been; this is what I initially filed -- _"Premiere XL4 with most current software. When jumping forward in live TV to the "present" audio is lost. Jumping back once clears this up."_ I then answered all their questions and told them it persists. Literally ONE MINUTE after I sent them my answers, they closed the ticket as "solved".

I have started another ticket asking why the previous one was classified as "solved"...


----------



## nooneuknow

Bierboy said:


> I don't know how much more clear I could have been; this is what I initially filed -- _"Premiere XL4 with most current software. When jumping forward in live TV to the "present" audio is lost. Jumping back once clears this up."_ I then answered all their questions and told them it persists. Literally ONE MINUTE after I sent them my answers, they closed the ticket as "solved".
> 
> I have started another ticket asking why the previous one was classified as "solved"...


That sound a lot like what I said they'd do (predicted, whatever)...

Please be sure to share how they respond, react, or lack of either, on their part. I ask all of us to please work together on this very real problem, which the biggest part of is TiVo the company (or their "support", which seems to have become a part of quantum uncertainty, unless you are looking for it, and then you know it isn't there).

They just auto-close mine, with a very condescending boiler-plate about how they've met the criteria to close the ticket, and any new one(s) for the same issue.

So, I guess just to keep some momentum, we'll have to somehow make it so that we give them more data, or more issues, with each ticket, so as to keep them from being exactly the same/identical?

In what universe, other than TiVo's own, does unsolved=solved?

I'm still trying to find my up to the TiVo Executive Relations Department. If I ever find a way to get there, I'll definitely post a "how to" guide...

GREAT PROBLEM SOLVING SKILLS TIVO!!! :down::down::down:

EDIT/ADD: The path to TiVo Executive Relations -used to- simply be demanding they "escalate" a matter, enough times, rather than just bending over and taking it, when they say, "sorry that we couldn't resolve your issue, is there anything else we can do for you today, like sell you more TiVos?", or something to that effect... I still think demanding escalation is the way to go, when there is an electronic trail of your support tickets. If I find a new way, I'll be sure to post it right here, ASAP.

I think I'm going to start demanding a free Glo Remotes for every TiVo, affected by each issue they can't resolve. Maybe if we all start doing that, somebody might start asking, internally, why there are so many Glo remotes being given away...

Seriously, I'm running out of ideas on how to get things back to solved=solved and unsolved=unsolved. It's like having somebody pee on your back, and tell you that it's raining. /endrant


----------



## ilkevinli

I wish you all the luck in the world. You're going to need it. 



nooneuknow said:


> That sound a lot like what I said they'd do (predicted, whatever)...
> 
> Please be sure to share how they respond, react, or lack of either, on their part. I ask all of us to please work together on this very real problem, which the biggest part of is TiVo the company (or their "support", which seems to have become a part of quantum uncertainty, unless you are looking for it, and then you know it isn't there).
> 
> They just auto-close mine, with a very condescending boiler-plate about how they've met the criteria to close the ticket, and any new one(s) for the same issue.
> 
> So, I guess just to keep some momentum, we'll have to somehow make it so that we give them more data, or more issues, with each ticket, so as to keep them from being exactly the same/identical?
> 
> In what universe, other than TiVo's own, does unsolved=solved?
> 
> I'm still trying to find my up to the TiVo Executive Relations Department. If I ever find a way to get there, I'll definitely post a "how to" guide...
> 
> GREAT PROBLEM SOLVING SKILLS TIVO!!! :down::down::down:
> 
> EDIT/ADD: The path to TiVo Executive Relations -used to- simply be demanding they "escalate" a matter, enough times, rather than just bending over and taking it, when they say, "sorry that we couldn't resolve your issue, is there anything else we can do for you today, like sell you more TiVos?", or something to that effect... I still think demanding escalation is the way to go, when there is an electronic trail of your support tickets. If I find a new way, I'll be sure to post it right here, ASAP.
> 
> I think I'm going to start demanding a free Glo Remotes for every TiVo, affected by each issue they can't resolve. Maybe if we all start doing that, somebody might start asking, internally, why there are so many Glo remotes being given away...
> 
> Seriously, I'm running out of ideas on how to get things back to solved=solved and unsolved=unsolved. It's like having somebody pee on your back, and tell you that it's raining. /endrant


----------



## CoxInPHX

nooneuknow said:


> I'm still trying to find my up to the TiVo Executive Relations Department. If I ever find a way to get there, I'll definitely post a "how to" guide...


I find that a simple, concise and polite email to margret at tivo dot com will usually get results.

https://twitter.com/tivodesign


----------



## ah30k

nooneuknow said:


> Unless they make/made an exception, field testing/trials are subject to a NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement). Once agreed to, you aren't supposed to talk about it. They may have failed to mention it, or you may have just got yourself removed from the list, if you did agree to it (and your post gets noticed and/or reported).
> 
> Field Testing/Trials are generally a more publicly available extension of beta-testing. If it hasn't commenced yet, you may be OK. It's generally the first two rules of Fight Club, once you have been cleared to begin.
> 
> Personally, I find being prohibited from discussing such matters publicly, more of a curse, than a blessing.


They never mentioned any NDA. There are likely multiple levels of user testing. The level they're talking about here is just the first wave of consumer release not some super secret feature rollout.


----------



## nooneuknow

ah30k said:


> They never mentioned any NDA. There are likely multiple levels of user testing. The level they're talking about here is just the first wave of consumer release not some super secret feature rollout.


There's always a possibility that when the software in question is made available, at a field trial/testing level, then you must agree to a NDA before you get it. Then, if you don't agree, you can request priority in the rollout queue, without a NDA. Beyond that, then it's just wait, like everybody else.

I only brought it up, as a matter of caution. I'm not talking about black helicopters or super secret whatever... Hell, after this last priority rollout, I regretted asking for it, and would have rather had a few more weeks without it. It's not like they halted the rollout, or recalled it, which some were hoping would at least be considered.


----------



## nooneuknow

CoxInPHX said:


> I find that a simple, concise and polite email to margret at tivo dot com will usually get results.
> 
> https://twitter.com/tivodesign


No offense, but if that gets results, when do we all get to see them? TiVo's support system is very broken, this update was/is a mess, and it all lands on the shoulders of one TiVo rep, whose primary domain is twitter? I don't tweet. I'm not a bird. I do email. I'll give it a shot... Seems like if there was a miracle cure for what ails TiVo, it should've been deployed by now, since this Margret is no big secret.

So, how about Bierboy? Have you tried this route, Bierboy?


----------



## CoxInPHX

nooneuknow said:


> No offense, but if that gets results, when do we all get to see them? TiVo's support system is very broken, this update was/is a mess, and it all lands on the shoulders of one TiVo rep, whose primary domain is twitter? I don't tweet. I'm not a bird. I do email. I'll give it a shot... Seems like if there was a miracle cure for what ails TiVo, it should've been deployed by now, since this Margret is no big secret.
> 
> So, how about Bierboy? Have you tried this route, Bierboy?


Margret Schmidt
Vice President, Design & Engineering , Chief Design Officer, TiVo
http://margretschmidt.com/Home/Margret_Schmidt_Chief_Design_Officer_TiVo.html

Here is Margret reaching out and asking to be emailed:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9583095#post9583095
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9376185#post9376185
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9137797#post9137797

Back in November 2012, Margret tweeted TiVo needs more Beta testers! If you want to make a difference sign up.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/269190461149835264
Here is a case in point where I and several others, emailed Margret and she had the issue fixed in 4 days.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=500199

I was very surprised that TiVo did not release another update like they did last time, to fix the issues with 20.3.1. This update was most likely rushed to get MLB.tv on the Premiere before the baseball season was over, still no excuse, but that was their priority and TiVo probably took what they considered was a working beta release candidate, and pushed it out anyway. I am still betting we see another update in Aug or Sept.


----------



## proudx

I've always had a wierd analog audio bug in my premiere. Sometimes when fast forwarding and resumingmy audio has a wierd echo tin can sound. Simply rewinding and resuming fixes the Audio glitch. This only happens over the analog outputs and does not happen over the hdmi output.


----------



## jmpage2

I am on 20.3.1, but I'm still occasionally having TiVo delete recordings I haven't watched. It's pretty damn frustrating (it just deleted five new episodes of a show even though I had told it to record 10).

I have 94% free space on my 2TB Elite. Rather unacceptable.

Anyone else still have recordings spontaneously deleting?


----------



## compnurd

jmpage2 said:


> I am on 20.3.1, but I'm still occasionally having TiVo delete recordings I haven't watched. It's pretty damn frustrating (it just deleted five new episodes of a show even though I had told it to record 10).
> 
> I have 94% free space on my 2TB Elite. Rather unacceptable.
> 
> Anyone else still have recordings spontaneously deleting?


no never


----------



## JoeKustra

Never. It has tried to record shows I don't want even with suggestions disabled and no thumbs up.


----------



## jmpage2

Hmm... well that sucks. I told it to record first only episodes of "Continuum" and keep 10. I went to watch the 2nd season a week or so ago and saw that it had blown out the latest five episodes.

I've been having episode deletion issues for some time now, but my understanding was that 20.3.1 had fixed the problem.

Oh well.


----------



## JoeKustra

jmpage2 said:


> Hmm... well that sucks. I told it to record first only episodes of "Continuum" and keep 10. I went to watch the 2nd season a week or so ago and saw that it had blown out the latest five episodes.
> 
> I've been having episode deletion issues for some time now, but my understanding was that 20.3.1 had fixed the problem.
> 
> Oh well.


You can't "fix" Continuum anymore than you can "fix" Motive on ABC or Primeval on SyFy. These are Canadian imports with an on air date in the past. For the most accurate listings use Zap2It. It uses TMS for data also, but TiVo has special rules. Maybe it's Globalization.


----------



## nooneuknow

jmpage2 said:


> I am on 20.3.1, but I'm still occasionally having TiVo delete recordings I haven't watched. It's pretty damn frustrating (it just deleted five new episodes of a show even though I had told it to record 10).
> 
> I have 94% free space on my 2TB Elite. Rather unacceptable.
> 
> Anyone else still have recordings spontaneously deleting?


I do. It happens sometimes even well below 60% drive usage (of a 2TB drive). I have TiVo Suggestions disabled, and clear my thumb ratings every time I reboot (in case I accidentally hit a thumb button, since I don't use them on purpose).

I'm a bit saddened, that something others HAVE reported gets dismissed, by a few people I consider to be what rhymes with "rolls".

I have a few ideas on why this happens, and how (as well as many speculations). I've learned if I share them, the usual people will start lobbing out the napalm, then accuse me of making the thread go sideways.


----------



## jmpage2

JoeKustra said:


> You can't "fix" Continuum anymore than you can "fix" Motive on ABC or Primeval on SyFy. These are Canadian imports with an on air date in the past. For the most accurate listings use Zap2It. It uses TMS for data also, but TiVo has special rules. Maybe it's Globalization.


In the TiVo guide they show as "new" episodes (as they are airing for the 1st time in the US) so, yes, there is some problem going on that needs to be "fixed".

If I tell my TiVo to keep 10 episodes, and when I go in to the series folder it only has 5, and I have tons of free space on my TiVo, something is jacked up.


----------



## nooneuknow

CoxInPHX said:


> I was very surprised that TiVo did not release another update like they did last time, to fix the issues with 20.3.1. This update was most likely rushed to get MLB.tv on the Premiere before the baseball season was over, still no excuse, but that was their priority and TiVo probably took what they considered was a working beta release candidate, and pushed it out anyway. I am still betting we see another update in Aug or Sept.


I agree. Sorry for the tone of the other post, which you replied to in the quoted clip, above. The bad days are exceeding the decent days by a larger margin, and good days are just memories...

We all have bad days. I apologize for it setting the tone of some of that post.

This is only an apology to you. It's your thread. When I feel a whole thread's participants deserve an apology, I have gone that far.

-now, back to our regularly scheduled thread....


----------



## morac

jmpage2 said:


> In the TiVo guide they show as "new" episodes (as they are airing for the 1st time in the US) so, yes, there is some problem going on that needs to be "fixed".
> 
> If I tell my TiVo to keep 10 episodes, and when I go in to the series folder it only has 5, and I have tons of free space on my TiVo, something is jacked up.


TiVo records "new" season passes based on the original air date. Continuum's original starting air date for the this season is April 2013, while Syfy starting airing them in June, so they aren't "new". So the TiVo didn't delete your recordings. It never recorded them in the first place as they aren't "new". The "new" in My Shows doesn't really appear to be "new" as I've seen repeats with the (R) in e description, marked as "new" in My Shows.


----------



## lpwcomp

jmpage2 said:


> In the TiVo guide they show as "new" episodes (as they are airing for the 1st time in the US) so, yes, there is some problem going on that needs to be "fixed".


You are mistaken. They don't show up as "New" in the TiVo guide. The absence of the "R" flag is not the same as "New". TiVo uses the OAD to determine whether or not an episode is "New". Doesn't matter one way or the other that this is the first _*US*_ airing.


----------



## JoeKustra

jmpage2 said:


> In the TiVo guide they show as "new" episodes (as they are airing for the 1st time in the US) so, yes, there is some problem going on that needs to be "fixed".
> 
> If I tell my TiVo to keep 10 episodes, and when I go in to the series folder it only has 5, and I have tons of free space on my TiVo, something is jacked up.


Which ones? You must have a special zipcode or my guide is broken. Tonight Continuum is not shown as new except on tvguide.com, titantv.com and Zap2It.com. I don't use WMC so I can't check that.

The TiVo description shows 7/7/13 as the OAD for Continuum, so it falls under the lunar rule?


----------



## jmpage2

morac said:


> TiVo records "new" season passes based on the original air date. Continuum's original starting air date for the this season is April 2013, while Syfy starting airing them in June, so they aren't "new". So the TiVo didn't delete your recordings. It never recorded them in the first place as they aren't "new". The "new" in My Shows doesn't really appear to be "new" as I've seen repeats with the (R) in e description, marked as "new" in My Shows.


You are mistaken. The episodes were there, I just hadn't gotten around to watching them. I noticed that the # of recorded episodes went from 8 to 3 and sure enough the most recent 5 had been deleted.

All I know about them being "new" is that TiVo placed a "new" tag on them and it normally only does that with 1st time airing of episodes that I've noticed.


----------



## jmpage2

JoeKustra said:


> Which ones? You must have a special zipcode or my guide is broken. Tonight Continuum is not shown as new except on tvguide.com, titantv.com and Zap2It.com. I don't use WMC so I can't check that.


I am on Comcast, Denver suburbs, and certainly the episodes, at least for some period of time were showing as "new".


----------



## jmpage2

So, it sounds like a potential explanation for the problem (at least in this particular case) is this;

1. Initially for Season 1, Continuum episodes were flagged "new" in the guide data.
2. I set up a season pass to record "new" episodes and keep 10.
3. Episodes stopped getting flagged as "new".
4. Some of the episodes were suggestions and ended up getting deleted.


----------



## MPSAN

Rich, I sent you an email if the old addy is still good!


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## JoeKustra

jmpage2 said:


> So, it sounds like a potential explanation for the problem (at least in this particular case) is this;
> 
> 1. Initially for Season 1, Continuum episodes were flagged "new" in the guide data.
> 2. I set up a season pass to record "new" episodes and keep 10.
> 3. Episodes stopped getting flagged as "new".
> 4. Some of the episodes were suggestions and ended up getting deleted.


That is an outstanding explanation and the most logical.


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## nooneuknow

JoeKustra said:


> That is an outstanding explanation and the most logical.


Now that more details of the problem currently in discussion which have emerged.

1. It was still wrong for people to just say "nope, never", without knowing more (and didn't even ask for more). While a few emoticons set those aside that were being satirical, it's still not the best way to help anybody...

2. I now know that I know the issue well, which is unrelated to my own ones...

I missed the first "new" episode of BBC's Being Human, even though my season pass was set to record new & repeats. I then tried setting it to everything. It still wouldn't schedule the show's upcoming episodes. Then I deleted, and created a new SP, still the same. I finally just manually scheduled each one, then check for new ones as I watch the ones I had to manually record.

The best I can come up with is it -could be- a reverse scenario, of how the whole slew of Discovery Channel Network channels, games our TiVos into recording episodes that we've already recorded 50 times (some maybe even the same week), by apparently, deliberately, moving the OAD ahead, each airing, or other underhanded measures, that tweak the data the TiVo relies upon to record what it should, and not record the rest.

BBC, SyFy, and a handful of others are just too unreliable for me to trust a SP will record what I want. I now repeatedly check for this, and resort to manual recording, if the show is that important to me.

I don't think we can pin this on TiVo, or this update. I do think TiVo needs to threaten the suppliers of guide data and/or their suppliers, with their legal might. If this is allowed to get much worse (either way, with Discovery Networks, or channels that want us, or try to force us, to watch Live), some of the best reasons left to own a TiVo will evaporate.

The OAD, under "explore this show" episode list says these "new" programs OAD was nearly a year ago. The manual recordings didn't include the OAD in the program information, at all. I always knew about the OAD on BBC meaning OAD overseas. It's just never been such a headache, until now.

Is there any proof this may have been made worse by this update?


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## Bierboy

JoeKustra said:


> Which ones? You must have a special zipcode or my guide is broken. Tonight Continuum is not shown as new....


My TiVo info CLEARLY indicates it's a NEW ep in the TO DO LIST; however, in the guide, it does not...


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## Bierboy

jmpage2 said:


> So, it sounds like a potential explanation for the problem (at least in this particular case) is this;
> 
> 1. Initially for Season 1, Continuum episodes were flagged "new" in the guide data.
> 2. I set up a season pass to record "new" episodes and keep 10.
> 3. Episodes stopped getting flagged as "new".
> 4. Some of the episodes were suggestions and ended up getting deleted.


That was not the case....they were repeats from the very first episode because I distinctly remember setting up an SP for new only, and none were being picked up from the very first one.


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## JoeKustra

Bierboy said:


> My TiVo info CLEARLY indicates it's a NEW ep in the TO DO LIST; however, in the guide, it does not...


That's amazing. I hope by next Friday the next episode on the To Do List changes to "new" also. Zap2It shows it as "new" already. I bet it will not since the OAD will be past the lunar logic for some reason even though the episode number does increment.


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## lpwcomp

The thing is, that the TiVo uses different criteria for:

1. Flagging "NEW" in the guide

2."NEW" in the ToDo list and NPL

3. Selection by an FRO SP.

Episodes with series "generic" guide data will quite often be added to the ToDo by an FRO SP. Most of the time, reruns will eventually get correct guide data and be removed from the ToDo. I see this all of the time with "Robot Chicken". I think it likely that what is initially missing is the programId, but that is just a (S)WAG and I could very well be wrong in my conjecture.


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## jmpage2

Bierboy said:


> That was not the case....they were repeats from the very first episode because I distinctly remember setting up an SP for new only, and none were being picked up from the very first one.


Well, I had them in the program folder marked "new" and I don't normally see that for non first run aired.

The case or not, my episodes got deleted... the most likely explanation being that it was taping them as suggestions, etc, instead of recording the series like I asked it to do.


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## timstack8969

When will we see a Software Update? because I thought the problem was my Cable card but Comcast sent an update a few weeks ago and I'm still receiving "Black Screens" and "Channel Not Available" messages when tuning.


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## sbiller

timstack8969 said:


> When will we see a Software Update? because I thought the problem was my Cable card but Comcast sent an update a few weeks ago and I'm still receiving "Black Screens" and "Channel Not Available" messages when tuning.


Later this month or early September is the expected release of the "Fall Update" based on a blog post from one of TiVo's partners (RCN).


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## brentil

Of note the Flash codename "quattro" matches with the newer versions of the Linux opensource code released by TiVo. They have 3 versions of the code available.


Quattro 1.9
Quattro 2.0
Quattro 2.1

However the version listed in the new live version is Quattro 2.3 so it looks like the latest code for newer versions hasn't made it to the opensource page yet.


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## MPSAN

New issue...

While playing a recorded show, the show would freeze a few times and move on. A second or 2 later it would do the same, and then the rest of the show would be fine. I have seen this before but assumed it was the station. However, last night when I saw it again I hit the 8 second rewind a few times. It went right thru that spot just fine, and did not do this again. I want to just ignore this for now and hope the new software, whenever it is released, will "fix" this. This is a fairly new XL4, and do not want to exchange it if there is nothing wrong with it, so I am asking the group about this.


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## jrtroo

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=416062

Look under "What is wrong with my Tivo" section. I would at least give them a call so its logged in their system.


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## MPSAN

jrtroo said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=416062
> 
> Look under "What is wrong with my Tivo" section. I would at least give them a call so its logged in their system.


OK, I will at least let them know!

***UPDATE***

They are aware of the audio issues but noted my stutter issue.


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## jeff92k7

Does anyone have any news on when the next software update might be available?

We recently cut the cord and I've been trying to work out antenna reception issues with my TiVos, but the bug that causes the signal meter to freeze makes it nearly impossible to effectively troubleshoot. I can't simply plug the antenna into a TV since the signal meters are different and the TV tuner isn't as susceptible to multi-path interference. I really need to tune my antenna setup with the TiVo.

I called TiVo a few days ago to complain and they added me to whatever magic list they have regarding the problem, but they wouldn't provide any info on when I could expect a resolution.


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## JWhites

jeff92k7 said:


> Does anyone have any news on when the next software update might be available?
> 
> We recently cut the cord and I've been trying to work out antenna reception issues with my TiVos, but the bug that causes the signal meter to freeze makes it nearly impossible to effectively troubleshoot. I can't simply plug the antenna into a TV since the signal meters are different and the TV tuner isn't as susceptible to multi-path interference. I really need to tune my antenna setup with the TiVo.
> 
> I called TiVo a few days ago to complain and they added me to whatever magic list they have regarding the problem, but they wouldn't provide any info on when I could expect a resolution.


A friend of mine received an email from TiVo Margret hinting at a Fall 2013 update. "In cases where issues appear resolved on Roamio, you should expect they will probably be addressed in the next update to Premiere." and "The issue with descriptions in the channel banner truncating after three lines should be fixed in the Fall update that is coming to Premiere"

Keywords _should_ and _probably_


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## tomhorsley

JWhites said:


> A friend of mine received an email from TiVo Margret hinting at a Fall 2013 update. "In cases where issues appear resolved on Roamio, you should expect they will probably be addressed in the next update to Premiere." and "The issue with descriptions in the channel banner truncating after three lines should be fixed in the Fall update that is coming to Premiere"
> 
> Keywords _should_ and _probably_


And the really unfortunate bit that talks about fixes already in the Roamio - what about the bug Roamio still has that weren't fixed from the Premiere (like losing channels all the time).


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## JWhites

Essentially from what I've heard, the UI for the Premiere and the UI for the Roamio are the same, both using Adobe Air (Flash), only the Roamio has a beefier processor and has a different color scheme. (not talking about any applications) I think this might be a good thing on the engineering and developmental side because hopefully now it will be easier to improve and update things and add new features with both the Premiere and Roamio at the same time, and with fingers crossed, roll over onto the Premiere. It's also a good thing for users already familiar with the HDUI introduced with the Premiere when picking up a Roamio so there isn't as steep -if any- of a learning curve. I wouldn't be surprised of the Series 6 and above also will use the same HDUI layout, judging by the fact that the same SDUI has been used in the Series 1, 2, 3, HD, Premiere, and I think the Roamio as well, though not in the same manner.


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## jmpage2

I think it is highly unlikely that the Premiere gets much in the way of updates from here on out. It clearly lacks the muscle needed for HTML5 apps.


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## JWhites

I always thought that HTML5 was designed so it wouldn't put undue stress on lower powered systems. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5 "Many features of HTML5 have been built with the consideration of being able to run on low-powered devices such as smartphones and tablets"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_HTML5_and_Flash
Maybe this has nothing to do with how it's implemented with TiVo.


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## NoVa

JWhites said:


> I always thought that HTML5 was designed so it wouldn't put undue stress on lower powered systems. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5 "Many features of HTML5 have been built with the consideration of being able to run on low-powered devices such as smartphones and tablets"
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_HTML5_and_Flash
> Maybe this has nothing to do with how it's implemented with TiVo.


yeah - I always thought one of HTML5's advantages was it wasn't a resource hog.
but the wiki doesn't show a clear differentiator between both except that HTML 5 doesn't have DRM support - which I believe the content rights holder would want for Netflix, Hulu, etc.


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## JWhites

If that was the case, then the use of HTML5 on Netflix, which finds content rights and DRM very important, wouldn't permit the app from being created.


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## jmpage2

JWhites said:


> I always thought that HTML5 was designed so it wouldn't put undue stress on lower powered systems. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5 "Many features of HTML5 have been built with the consideration of being able to run on low-powered devices such as smartphones and tablets"
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_HTML5_and_Flash
> Maybe this has nothing to do with how it's implemented with TiVo.


The problem is that TiVo Premiere had a weak sauce CPU even compared to a smartphone or tablet.


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## lpwcomp

jmpage2 said:


> The problem is that TiVo Premiere had a weak sauce CPU even compared to a smartphone or tablet.


That is precisely why, if indeed HTML5 is less CPU intensive, replacing Flash with it would result in better performance.


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## JWhites

lpwcomp said:


> That is precisely why, if indeed HTML5 is less CPU intensive, replacing Flash with it would result in better performance.


I look at it as a challenge for the engineers to make it happen. Prove to us that it won't work, otherwise we'll always wonder and speculate. I feel like they never even bothered trying.


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## BankZ

Does the tivo elite have a really low powered cpu? Is it screwed?


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## morac

BankZ said:


> Does the tivo elite have a really low powered cpu? Is it screwed?


If I recall correctly, the Elite is about as powerful as an iPhone 3GS.

Also I don't think Flash uses less CPU than HTML5. My old PC can play Flash games without a problem. HTML5 games tend to be laggy. Also remember that the TiVo isn't running full Flash, but a light version of it.


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## astrohip

BankZ said:


> Does the tivo elite have a really low powered cpu? Is it screwed?


Screwed in what way? I have an Elite running the SDUI, it's blazing fast. Rock solid, four tuners, no complaints. Literally hundreds of SPs and WLs, and I have no complaints.

Tried running the HDUI, couldn't tolerate the speed. Been SDUI ever since.

I've watched a little Netflix on it. Slow to load, not very responsive, but once you're watching, it's still TV.

Screwed?

OTOH, I'm looking forward to my new Pro. Everyone says the HDUI on the Roamio is as fast as SDUI was.:up: But I'll also keep my Elite.


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## BankZ

I wonder if it makes more sense to get a 2nd mini and hook it up to my main tv and put the elite in a closet. That would give me most of the stuff in the new version right?


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## nooneuknow

JWhites said:


> I look at it as a challenge for the engineers to make it happen. Prove to us that it won't work, otherwise we'll always wonder and speculate. I feel like they never even bothered trying.


+1 :up: I feel the same.


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