# OTA quality is way worse on Roamio?



## hepcat511 (Feb 6, 2015)

I have been tearing my hair out trying to find an antenna that will work with the Roamio. Finally, I've just given up and attached the antenna I have directly to my LG TV and just like that all of the picture quality problems I had been experiencing with the Roamio are gone!

The only thing I can determine is that the Roamio tuners suck compared to the LG tuner. The devices are mere inches from each other, so it can't be positioning.

Unfortunately, it means I can't DVR or pause any OTA TV, which is the entire reason I have the Roamio. Has anyone solved this problem?


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

I installed 2 Leaf antennas on to a Roamio OTA, through a splitter (combiner), last week and haven't heard of any problems since...

-KP


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

hepcat511 said:


> I have been tearing my hair out trying to find an antenna that will work with the Roamio. Finally, I've just given up and attached the antenna I have directly to my LG TV and just like that all of the picture quality problems I had been experiencing with the Roamio are gone!
> 
> The only thing I can determine is that the Roamio tuners suck compared to the LG tuner. The devices are mere inches from each other, so it can't be positioning.
> 
> Unfortunately, it means I can't DVR or pause any OTA TV, which is the entire reason I have the Roamio. Has anyone solved this problem?


This unfortunately is not an uncommon complaint with either the Roamio or Bolt, i.e., a strait connection to TV looks great, not so through Tivo. Some of it may be due to splitting the signal to each tuner but many folks have used amps/preamps on their antenna and upgraded their antennas to get an acceptable signal.


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## hepcat511 (Feb 6, 2015)

I think it's going to make me go a different way. I'm looking at the HDHomeRun now as my cord cutting option.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

hepcat511 said:


> I think it's going to make me go a different way. I'm looking at the HDHomeRun now as my cord cutting option.


You just need a better antenna setup! My Roamio works perfectly with an OTA antenna, but I NEED and have an outdoor antenna system setup.

Why spend money for an Hdhomerun, when you are already 95% there with the Roamio? Get a better antenna, and do it right. Don't just get one of those silly "mud flap" type antennas either.


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## hepcat511 (Feb 6, 2015)

MikeBear said:


> You just need a better antenna setup! My Roamio works perfectly with an OTA antenna, but I NEED and have an outdoor antenna system setup.
> 
> Why spend money for an Hdhomerun, when you are already 95% there with the Roamio? Get a better antenna, and do it right. Don't just get one of those silly "mud flap" type antennas either.


Well, I do have a Mohu Leaf antenna and it works great with the TV's tuner, like I mentioned. Installing a rooftop antenna and running the cable is non-trivial for me as my TV doesn't sit along an outside wall so getting the coaxial cable to the TV is a significant effort.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

hepcat511 said:


> Well, I do have a Mohu Leaf antenna and it works great with the TV's tuner, like I mentioned. Installing a rooftop antenna and running the cable is non-trivial for me as my TV doesn't sit along an outside wall so getting the coaxial cable to the TV is a significant effort.


Single tv tuners are usually very good/very sensitive, but the Tivo has to split the signal 4 ways internally. It needs a little bit better signal levels than your tv set.

Try going to TV Fool (<< that's a hyperlink, click on it) and run a report on your address, then post the link to your report here. It'll mask your address, so don't worry people will show up at your house. Once we know what you are dealing with, we can recommend antennas. Mcmelectronics.com carries so very good antennas that are priced reasonably cheaply, but are built extremely well, and worth the trouble to install.

You just can't expect every different electronic device to work exactly the same, even with the same antenna, etc.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Have you tried aligning according to directions from antennaweb.org ?

When I put the 2 (leaf) antennas on the 1 splitter, I hung 1 up (in the attic) so I had a good picture on a quite a few channels and used a compass to hang the second as close as I could get to where antennaweb said and locked in every channel. Signal Strength was around 65-70 but never a bit of pixelation while recording from all 4 tuners.

-KP


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

hepcat511 said:


> I think it's going to make me go a different way. I'm looking at the HDHomeRun now as my cord cutting option.


My HDHomeRun OTA tuners are not very good, they are as bad or maybe worse than the ones in my Premiere, both my Bolt and Roamio are noticeably better.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

I have more than a few Roamio OTAs in different cities and markets with various antennas. All are pretty much on par with the TVs they're connected to and with the other tuners I've had in the past (Homerun, Ceton, Hauppauge, DirecTV OTA add-on tuner, Dish OTA add-on tuner, etc.). Sounds like you have some kind of cabling issue.


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## hepcat511 (Feb 6, 2015)

kpeters59 said:


> Have you tried aligning according to directions from antennaweb.org ?
> 
> When I put the 2 (leaf) antennas on the 1 splitter, I hung 1 up (in the attic) so I had a good picture on a quite a few channels and used a compass to hang the second as close as I could get to where antennaweb said and locked in every channel. Signal Strength was around 65-70 but never a bit of pixelation while recording from all 4 tuners.
> 
> -KP


Does "reverse splitting" just allow you to have multidirectional antennas or does it also amplify the signal?

I have done the antennaweb thing, and even for channels that I'm less than 30 degrees off of, I still get super annoying pixelation.


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## hepcat511 (Feb 6, 2015)

atmuscarella said:


> My HDHomeRun OTA tuners are not very good, they are as bad or maybe worse than the ones in my Premiere, both my Bolt and Roamio are noticeably better.


Ugh, that's not good news. I already ordered it. I'll give it a try and see if I have to return it or not.


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## hepcat511 (Feb 6, 2015)

MikeBear said:


> Single tv tuners are usually very good/very sensitive, but the Tivo has to split the signal 4 ways internally. It needs a little bit better signal levels than your tv set.
> 
> Try going to TV Fool (<< that's a hyperlink, click on it) and run a report on your address, then post the link to your report here. It'll mask your address, so don't worry people will show up at your house. Once we know what you are dealing with, we can recommend antennas. Mcmelectronics.com carries so very good antennas that are priced reasonably cheaply, but are built extremely well, and worth the trouble to install.
> 
> You just can't expect every different electronic device to work exactly the same, even with the same antenna, etc.


mcmelectronics doesn't resolve. Is that the right URL? Here's the relevant info from TV Fool:


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

'Less than 30 degrees'? Is that supposed to be a reference amount? Yikes! I'd try to be closer than that.

Most splitters are bi-directional. They don't amplify.

-KP


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

There's a write-up on this page that is pretty decent for dialing in your antenna(s):

How can I use two OTA antennas?

-KP


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## hepcat511 (Feb 6, 2015)

kpeters59 said:


> 'Less than 30 degrees'? Is that supposed to be a reference amount? Yikes! I'd try to be closer than that.
> 
> Most splitters are bi-directional. They don't amplify.
> 
> -KP


I'm talking about off axis. The Mohu is facing North and most of the channels are < 30 degress NW (roughly) according to the antennaweb line.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

So why don't you point the antenna right at the tower(s)?

-KP


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

One issue is your PBS and CW are on VHF, but at least their towers are in the same direction as your other UHF channels. You need an antenna that does a good job with both UHF and VHF and aim it directly at 330 degrees. This antenna is popular for picking up both and has many good reviews:
Amazon.com: RCA Compact Outdoor Yagi HDTV Antenna with 70 Mile Range: Home Audio & Theater

Being under 7 miles from most your stations this antenna should work even if you don't mount it outside. If there's an attic or storage room with minimal building material between the antenna and 330 it should still work well.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

hepcat511 said:


> Ugh, that's not good news. I already ordered it. I'll give it a try and see if I have to return it or not.


Well my HDHomeRun tuners are a few years old at this point maybe the newer ones are better. As others have said I would try to get a better antenna mount it outside if you can or at least in an attic.

Good Luck


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## hepcat511 (Feb 6, 2015)

kpeters59 said:


> So why don't you point the antenna right at the tower(s)?
> 
> -KP


Because the wall it's mounted on doesn't point right at the towers.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

And I suppose tearing down the wall and rebuilding it is off the table?


Seriously, find a way...

-KP


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

hepcat511 said:


> Because the wall it's mounted on doesn't point right at the towers.


Mcmelectronics.com is working now. Might have had an internet issue before. As for "the wall it's mounted on doesn't point right at the towers". Well, mount the antenna on a piece of plexiglas sheet, then hang it from the ceiling or something at the CORRECT angle to face your towers. You do however have 3 stations that are high VHF, and you might have issues with that as that antenna is UHF only.

Then again, it appears your towers are real close, and that also can actually cause problems as the signal can beam right over the top of your house, depending on how they are aiming it, which might mean you are getting a much weaker signal than the close distance would imply.

Oh, and hooking two antennas through a backwards splitter hardly ever works for anybody, They tend to cancel each other out due to the way the signals are received.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

MikeBear said:


> Oh, and hooking two antennas through a backwards splitter hardly ever works for anybody, They tend to cancel each other out due to the way the signals are received.


Citation?

'cause, ya know...I just told you it DID work.

For a client who cut the cord a LONG time ago and who's family has been suffering for a LONG time because of it.

My install/repair completely solved it...just sayin'...

-KP


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

kpeters59 said:


> Citation?
> 
> 'cause, ya know...I just told you it DID work.
> 
> ...


That's why I said "Hardly ever", because *it can work* for certain people that have the right combination of tv towers, far enough apart. It's just not guaranteed to work for most people. There's cites all over, but here's one: Dayton / Lima, OH - HDTV - Page 90 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

I had two dual-tuner HDHomeRun OTA tuners with Media Center, and an amplified UHF / VHF antenna in the attic pointed directly at the towers. The signal was marginal and tended to break up in heavy weather, but the exact same antenna hooked up to a Roamio basic hasn't had a dropout in two years. 4 tuners vs 4 tuners, and the Roamio was the clear winner.


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## Jim1348 (Jan 3, 2015)

Hepcat511, at the risk of asking the obvious, what coaxial feedline are you using? I have found that using RG-6, or better, on EVERY inch of the installation is critical. Even on short run patch cables. IF there are ANY RG-59 runs, consider replacing it with NEW RG-6, or better.

And, for whatever it is worth,I have found my TiVo Roamio OTA to be have a much better ATSC receiver than my Samsung native ATSC receivers. But, as you already know, your mileage may vary!


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## ljiminez (Jun 23, 2007)

hepcat511 said:


> Installing a rooftop antenna and running the cable is non-trivial for me...


In 2012 I paid $400 to have a professional install it for me. So far that investment has saved be at least $4500 because I dropped my cable service. I now use OTA, Sling TV (Nov - Apr), and Amazon Prime.


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## hepcat511 (Feb 6, 2015)

Jim1348 said:


> Hepcat511, at the risk of asking the obvious, what coaxial feedline are you using? I have found that using RG-6, or better, on EVERY inch of the installation is critical. Even on short run patch cables. IF there are ANY RG-59 runs, consider replacing it with NEW RG-6, or better.
> 
> And, for whatever it is worth,I have found my TiVo Roamio OTA to be have a much better ATSC receiver than my Samsung native ATSC receivers. But, as you already know, your mileage may vary!


Yes, one of the first things I did was upgrade to RG-6, 18AWG coax. I'd say it made an improvement, but watching TV on the Roamio was still too frustrating to deal with.


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## hepcat511 (Feb 6, 2015)

ljiminez said:


> In 2012 I paid $400 to have a professional install it for me. So far that investment has saved be at least $4500 because I dropped my cable service. I now use OTA, Sling TV (Nov - Apr), and Amazon Prime.


I want to do something similar. It would be nice to get OTA working so that I can record CBS shows. CBS seems to be the only broadcast network that doesn't want to play nice with Hulu.

I would also like to be able to pause football games on the broadcast networks. These are the only 2 applications I really need from a DVR. I can get pretty much everything else through Sling, Netflix, Hulu, and Amazon Prime.


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## hepcat511 (Feb 6, 2015)

ggieseke said:


> I had two dual-tuner HDHomeRun OTA tuners with Media Center, and an amplified UHF / VHF antenna in the attic pointed directly at the towers. The signal was marginal and tended to break up in heavy weather, but the exact same antenna hooked up to a Roamio basic hasn't had a dropout in two years. 4 tuners vs 4 tuners, and the Roamio was the clear winner.


I ordered the new(?) HDHomeRun EXTEND. Is that the one you have? I'm hoping the tuner quality is better. If not, I'll send it back.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

kpeters59 said:


> Have you tried aligning according to directions from antennaweb.org ?
> 
> When I put the 2 (leaf) antennas on the 1 splitter, I hung 1 up (in the attic) so I had a good picture on a quite a few channels and used a compass to hang the second as close as I could get to where antennaweb said and locked in every channel. Signal Strength was around 65-70 but never a bit of pixelation while recording from all 4 tuners.


Well, this never occurred to me: and so, you simply have 2 antennas coming into the splitter, and then the splitter connected to the TiVo box? It never occurred to me to do this or that this would work without an issue. Seems to be a good solution to catch those few stations that need an antenna turned in just a slightly different direction from the other stations.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Again, on this page is a good step-by-step...

How can I use two OTA antennas?

-KP


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## DaMan (May 1, 2004)

hepcat511 said:


> I have been tearing my hair out trying to find an antenna that will work with the Roamio. Finally, I've just given up and attached the antenna I have directly to my LG TV and just like that all of the picture quality problems I had been experiencing with the Roamio are gone!
> 
> The only thing I can determine is that the Roamio tuners suck compared to the LG tuner. The devices are mere inches from each other, so it can't be positioning.
> 
> Unfortunately, it means I can't DVR or pause any OTA TV, which is the entire reason I have the Roamio. Has anyone solved this problem?


I simply tapped into my existing Comcast cable run for my outside antenna and have no problems with clarity and I have 2 Roamios, 1 premium , and 1 mini

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

hepcat511 said:


> I ordered the new(?) HDHomeRun EXTEND. Is that the one you have? I'm hoping the tuner quality is better. If not, I'll send it back.


The ones I bought in Jan 2012 were the HDHR3-US dual-tuner models made primarily for software DVRs like Media Center or Sage TV.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

hepcat511 said:


> I ordered the new(?) HDHomeRun EXTEND. Is that the one you have? I'm hoping the tuner quality is better. If not, I'll send it back.


What client are you going to use with that on the TV side (just curious)?

Scott


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## hepcat511 (Feb 6, 2015)

HerronScott said:


> What client are you going to use with that on the TV side (just curious)?
> 
> Scott


Probably going to go with Plex. MY OLED LG TV has a native Plex client as does my Samsung plasma TV. Eliminating a box and going to the native TV UI will be interesting since I've had a TiVo in the house since forever.


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## hepcat511 (Feb 6, 2015)

The other potentially interesting side benefit of the HDHomeRun EXTEND is that it doesn't actually need a physical connection to the TV. As I mentioned, the TV is not along an exterior wall, which makes an external antenna a non-starter.

So, I can actually move the Mohu Leaf antenna and the HDHomeRun EXTEND box to a point where it's mounted against an external wall (window, really) that allows the box to have an ethernet connection to a switch. So, this should also, in theory, improve the effectiveness of the antenna.


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## mlcarson (Dec 31, 2007)

There's nothing wrong with the basic Roamio for OTA. I've used both the HDHomerun HDHR-US and HDHomerun Connect tuners along with the TivoHd and the Tivo Roamio Basic. I didn't really see any significant difference in any of them. You're just doing it wrong. Combining antennas with a reverse splitter almost never works the way you want -- you're just going to introduce a lot of multipath issues and weaken your overall signal strength. In certain cases, it can work but most of the time you'll need notch filters to do it correctly. Blaming the tuner for when you create signal issues like this isn't productive. You were just very lucky it ever worked at all. If you had something like that working, congrats but you'd probably have better luck with an A/B switch -- it' s just not convenient/transparent to the user experience so wouldn't be great for something like a Tivo where there are multiple tuners. For the HDHomeRun though, get a second one and use one with each antenna. That's your easy way out. If you had one of the older HDHR-US units, it actually has a separate coax connector for each tuner; the newer units use a single connector for both tuners.

An outdoor antenna is usually the best course of action if you can put one up. Just because the TV isn't on an outside wall doesn't mean you can't put an external antenna up. If there's any coax cabling in the house for cable TV, it goes to the outside demarcation point where you can tap into it or you can rerun cabling through the attic or basement and snake it through the wall. You're going to get a lot more signal with an external antenna and you can point it exactly how you want it. The HDHomerun tuners have a major advantage when it comes to OTA but it's not their antenna sensitivity or multipath rejection -- it's that you can have a different antenna for each tuner pointing in different directions. With the Tivo, you have one antenna connection for all of the tuners in the box. You can either get a rotor to change the direction that it's pointing so you can optimize per station or you have to point it in a fixed direction but that's always about compromising signal strength for one channel for signal strength on another. 

All antennas are not created equal -- you need to know what channels you are going for and what frequencies they are at along with the distance when picking one out. Antennaweb.org and tvfool.com are your goto places for what's out there. If you don't have VHF channels, don't get a VHF antenna -- a smaller UHF antenna will work better. If your VHF and UHF channels are in different directions, get a VHF and a UHF antenna and combine them with a UHF/VHF diplexer so you can point them in different directions. If you need VHF but your channels aren't in the lo-VHF range (2-6), don't get a VHF antenna designed for 2-13, get one for 7-13 (they're much smaller). Your specific situation will determine the best antenna. There's not a universal fit like buy the leaf antenna. These type of antennas are multidirectional and designed for indoors but that only works in certain situations. The closest to a universal statement on antennas is that you'll get higher signal with an outdoor antenna than an indoor antenna. If you don't need the additional signal strength though, then it was a waste of effort.

I'm currently in a situation where I can't use an antenna. I'm renting a house and the owner doesn't want anything attached to it. Even if I could, I've got mountains between me and some of the sources and they are in 3 different directions. It'd be a nightmare getting something to work properly with a Tivo. Sometimes OTA just isn't a good option.


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## iLoop (Aug 11, 2018)

mlcarson said:


> There's nothing wrong with the basic Roamio for OTA. I've used both the HDHomerun HDHR-US and HDHomerun Connect tuners along with the TivoHd and the Tivo Roamio Basic. I didn't really see any significant difference in any of them. You're just doing it wrong. Combining antennas with a reverse splitter almost never works the way you want -- you're just going to introduce a lot of multipath issues and weaken your overall signal strength. In certain cases, it can work but most of the time you'll need notch filters to do it correctly. Blaming the tuner for when you create signal issues like this isn't productive. You were just very lucky it ever worked at all. If you had something like that working, congrats but you'd probably have better luck with an A/B switch -- it' s just not convenient/transparent to the user experience so wouldn't be great for something like a Tivo where there are multiple tuners. For the HDHomeRun though, get a second one and use one with each antenna. That's your easy way out. If you had one of the older HDHR-US units, it actually has a separate coax connector for each tuner; the newer units use a single connector for both tuners.
> 
> An outdoor antenna is usually the best course of action if you can put one up. Just because the TV isn't on an outside wall doesn't mean you can't put an external antenna up. If there's any coax cabling in the house for cable TV, it goes to the outside demarcation point where you can tap into it or you can rerun cabling through the attic or basement and snake it through the wall. You're going to get a lot more signal with an external antenna and you can point it exactly how you want it. The HDHomerun tuners have a major advantage when it comes to OTA but it's not their antenna sensitivity or multipath rejection -- it's that you can have a different antenna for each tuner pointing in different directions. With the Tivo, you have one antenna connection for all of the tuners in the box. You can either get a rotor to change the direction that it's pointing so you can optimize per station or you have to point it in a fixed direction but that's always about compromising signal strength for one channel for signal strength on another.
> 
> ...


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## cldlhd (Sep 23, 2018)

hepcat511 said:


> I have been tearing my hair out trying to find an antenna that will work with the Roamio. Finally, I've just given up and attached the antenna I have directly to my LG TV and just like that all of the picture quality problems I had been experiencing with the Roamio are gone!
> 
> The only thing I can determine is that the Roamio tuners suck compared to the LG tuner. The devices are mere inches from each other, so it can't be positioning.
> 
> Unfortunately, it means I can't DVR or pause any OTA TV, which is the entire reason I have the Roamio. Has anyone solved this problem?


I know this is an old post but I bought a Bolt OTA yesterday and the picture wi


hepcat511 said:


> I have been tearing my hair out trying to find an antenna that will work with the Roamio. Finally, I've just given up and attached the antenna I have directly to my LG TV and just like that all of the picture quality problems I had been experiencing with the Roamio are gone!
> 
> The only thing I can determine is that the Roamio tuners suck compared to the LG tuner. The devices are mere inches from each other, so it can't be positioning.
> 
> Unfortunately, it means I can't DVR or pause any OTA TV, which is the entire reason I have the Roamio. Has anyone solved this problem?


I bought a Bolt OTA yesterday and the picture with my antenna connected directly to my LG 4K OLED is way better. Since I don't DVR a lot of broadcast channels ( maybe 3 or 4 shoes a week) it isn't worth it to me to sacrifice the better picture quality while watching live sports OTA in order to tape a few shows so I think I'll be returning it. The other option is to have a splitter then feed the Bolt OTA and the TV from the antenna.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

cldlhd said:


> I know this is an old post but I bought a Bolt OTA yesterday and the picture wi
> 
> I bought a Bolt OTA yesterday and the picture with my antenna connected directly to my LG 4K OLED is way better. Since I don't DVR a lot of broadcast channels ( maybe 3 or 4 shoes a week) it isn't worth it to me to sacrifice the better picture quality while watching live sports OTA in order to tape a few shows so I think I'll be returning it. The other option is to have a splitter then feed the Bolt OTA and the TV from the antenna.


Are you sure your settings are identical? Since TVs usually have separate settings for the Antenna, Internal apps, and HDMI inputs. And they will be different unless you went into the settings while using each input to change them. Heck SOny TVs even have different settings for different apps.


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## cldlhd (Sep 23, 2018)

aaronwt said:


> Are you sure your settings are identical? Since TVs usually have separate settings for the Antenna, Internal apps, and HDMI inputs. And they will be different unless you went into the settings while using each input to change them. Heck SOny TVs even have different settings for different apps.


The settings aren't identical. LG has a coaxial specific picture setting called "smart picture" which supposedly Optimizes the picture to match the signal.


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## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

cldlhd said:


> The settings aren't identical. LG has a coaxial specific picture setting called "smart picture" which supposedly Optimizes the picture to match the signal.


In the Tivo settings, try disabling 1080p pass-thru and selecting only 1080i and 720p. And then in the TV settings, try flipping through the pre-sets (i.e. Vivid, Sports, etc.). Have a look at Video Game mode as well (that usually means the signal is minimally processed).

If you really want to get your hands dirty, you can also play with the advanced calibration settings by reading up on your model at RTINGS.com


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

OrangeCrush said:


> In the Tivo settings, try disabling 1080p pass-thru and selecting only 1080i and 720p.


The "Pass Through" settings are only used for internet streaming data. You can not select only "Pass Through" boxes.


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## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

JoeKustra said:


> The "Pass Through" settings are only used for internet streaming data. You can not select only "Pass Through" boxes.


Ah, you're correct. I was going on memory and had forgotten what they all were. Did they add some new resolutions with a software update or something? I could've _sworn _some of those 1080p options weren't there when I originally set my Roamio up.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

OrangeCrush said:


> Ah, you're correct. I was going on memory and had forgotten what they all were. Did they add some new resolutions with a software update or something? I could've _sworn _some of those 1080p options weren't there when I originally set my Roamio up.


When the Bolt was released they added the 4k stuff (on Bolts), but also added the "24/25 fps", which used to be only 24fps.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

From what I have read in this thread, it appears there are two issues;
1. Reception (the cliff effect),
2. Image quality.
Unless the posters here are confusing the two.

I read about the *reception* differences between the older Series 3 HD tuners and the tuners in the Premier and now the Roamio. Now I see their latest wonder, that ugly post-teenager designed 'Bolt' apparently has the same problem with reception which at least with the Roamio & Premier has: multipath. I was hoping they would of realized the poor design of the tuners in the Premier would not be repeated with the Roamio, but it was.

I noticed the difference as soon as I connected that 1st Premier years ago that replaced the S3 HD. Huge difference. Stations on the older S3 and just about any other TV tuner I have, had no issues. Swapping out (or moving) your antenna,* may* not solve your problem. Of course, this varies on location and situation. The ones here that reported *no* problems;* consider yourself lucky! 
*
As to image quality, I haven't noticed any *real* difference between any of these 3 series.


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## NashvilleKit (Jul 6, 2005)

My TiVo Roamio purchased in March 2015 has always worked online flawlessly. Now suddenly it has been acting very, very wrong. My first indication was a message at the top of any TiVo screen that says "No Internet Connection (C130). This TiVo box is no longer connected to the Internet. Some options will not be available until you fix your Internet connection." In other words, the Guide ain't being updated.
So I proceed to the Settings> Network Settings> Change Network Settings. The screen I get is quite different than what I remember.
According to both the Users Guide and the website support info, the screen menu is supposed to read: Modify Ethernet settings, Connect using MoCA, Connect using wireless, and Use this DVR to create a MoCA network.
That is NOT what I get now! It reads: Ethernet [Off], MoCA [Off] and IP Address [None]. That's the 1st bizarre occurrence, but it gets crazier.
If I select the 3rd option (I don't have Ethernet nor MoAC), the screen reads "To obtain an IP address, first set up a network connection." Duh?!
If I return to the Network Settings screen it shows a menu different than I am familiar with. The choices are TiVo Service Connection [Failed], Change Network Settings [No Connection] (the choice I've already explored above) and Network Troubleshooting.
Selecting the first just causes me to watch as it fails again to connect. So, I select the Troubleshootong Option.
This option gives me a menu consisting of Internet Connection, Network Status, TCP Port Test [Failed], DNS Test [Failed] and Transfer History.
Selecting the 1st just does the connection attempt again while I "twiddle my thumbs." The Network Status option gives me a screen which reads simply "No connection." The TCP Port Test option gives me a list of TCP port numbers, telling me I need to open one or more of these on my wireless router! (My router has no such function.) And ... The DNS Test option gives me a screen with a series of actions that make no sense whatsoever, talking about manually entering my DNS address, none of which make any sense (and I am pretty technical). The final option just says that no transfers have occurred.
How do I proceed to fix this?


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

NashvilleKit said:


> My TiVo Roamio purchased in March 2015 has always worked online flawlessly. Now suddenly it has been acting very, very wrong. My first indication was a message at the top of any TiVo screen that says "No Internet Connection (C130). This TiVo box is no longer connected to the Internet. Some options will not be available until you fix your Internet connection." In other words, the Guide ain't being updated.
> So I proceed to the Settings> Network Settings> Change Network Settings. The screen I get is quite different than what I remember.
> According to both the Users Guide and the website support info, the screen menu is supposed to read: Modify Ethernet settings, Connect using MoCA, Connect using wireless, and Use this DVR to create a MoCA network.
> That is NOT what I get now! It reads: Ethernet [Off], MoCA [Off] and IP Address [None]. That's the 1st bizarre occurrence, but it gets crazier.
> ...


How is your Romio connected to the internet? I don't see that in your post. Did you troubleshoot all possibilities there, e.g. a bad network cable.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Reboot the router. That's the thing your cable modem might plug into. What model is your router?


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

*NashvilleKit*;
That post has nothing to do with the threads topic; OTA, as in antenna.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

@NashvilleKit 
You would get better visibility for your problems if you had posted them as a separate thread, since they are totally unrelated to this thread's topic. And FWIW you should check the settings for this TiVo in your TiVo account and talk to TiVo support. This is a long shot but should be done for the sake of completeness. Also are other network devices at your location getting OK internet connections?


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## NashvilleKit (Jul 6, 2005)

Sorry, sorry about being in the wrong topic. So ... I "restarted" the TiVo, i.e. using the Tivo command. Didn't help. Then unplugged it to get a complete reboot and ... voila, all is back to normal, I am online and my guide is now up to date. Have no idea where all those strange menus and messages came from and I hope I never see them again. Thanks for the comments, folks! And I do know what a router is, Joe!


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## PCurry57 (Feb 27, 2012)

How can a OTA digital picture be worse via TiVo vs direct connect to TV. Pixelation! Pixelation could be fixed with yet a better signal, antenna preamp for example. Anything else would be do to settings. You mentioned the TV is 4K the question is which device is upconverting from the 1080/720 signal to 4K. It is possible the TV could do a better job than the TiVo.


Sent from my SM-T817P using Tapatalk


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

PCurry57 said:


> How can a OTA digital picture be worse via TiVo vs direct connect to TV.


I could set the video output to 480i only. You asked.


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## JustJohn7 (Mar 20, 2012)

hepcat511 said:


> mcmelectronics doesn't resolve. Is that the right URL? Here's the relevant info from TV Fool:
> 
> View attachment 30082


Looking at what you have, I've used the following with great success up to the station range marked in yellow (note that it must actually be mounted outdoors on the included mast). Also note that it gets good reception for both the VHF and UHF as your station list shows both. I've used this in Colorado Springs, Fort Lauderdale, and Phoenix with excellent results, and I have a Raomio, HD Homerun, and now a Bolt. UHF signals in particular can be attenuated quite a bit by walls, you really just need to mount it on a short mast like the one provided outside and point towards the broadcast towers. Judging by your map, likely I'd point to the weaker signals (yellow) and the green signals should still come in fine.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074CQ5LCJ/


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## scott784 (Jun 2, 2019)

Well, I am reviving this thread from the "dead" as I see it's now almost a year old. However, after reading many of the comments posted, I just wanted to post my "two cents" worth.

I have been a TiVo owner since 2011 and have owned both the TiVo Premiere and Roamio. Now we know everyone has a different location that impacts reception to one degree or another; and we certainly know that one size or type of antenna does not fit all situations as there are so many variables with tuners and TV reception at different locations.

But having said that, I have tried multiple different placements of antennas (to include going outside), multiple types/designs of antennas, and various types of amplifiers. But in the end, (at least as it relates to the Premiere "and" Roamio, it appears the TV's tuner outperforms the TiVos (in terms of relative signal strength) every time, no matter which way I've tried to shake it out. From my experience at three different locations in 9 years, the TiVo tuners simply will "not" match the sensitivity of the performance of the TV's native built-in tuner.

Now, I am not saying this to complain, nor am I saying my TiVo(s) can't get distant stations like the native tuners built into my TV sets. I am simply saying that it has been my experience that no matter what efforts I have gone to (going outside, trying various amounts of amplification, and trying a multitude of antennas, the level of performance (in terms of the relative signal strength) falls shorter on the TiVo Roamios and Premieres versus the native tuners built into every HDTV set that I've owned over the past 10 years.

This is a conversation that needs to be held more frequently. And to be fair, perhaps it is an inherent problem of most DVRs. Perhaps some posters on here feel the TiVo's relative signal strength performance is every bit as good as the native TV's tuners. But I can only share my own experiences. But it is also my belief that many others have experienced similar experiences to those that I have described.

Since I really like the "cable like" experience of TiVo and it's very friendly user interface with extensive options for recordings, etc. etc. , I would "welcome" the day when all of us could actually say that "yes" the TiVo's tuner's can match the performance level of native TV's tuners.

At this time, I am not trying to "problem solve" any particular situation, again, just my observations about performance levels. But I would certainly welcome any insight into why this "inferiority" often exists for many of us, especially for those of us that understand the basics of best type of antenna, proper amplification, location, etc. etc.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

scott784 said:


> Well, I am reviving this thread from the "dead" as I see it's now almost a year old. However, after reading many of the comments posted, I just wanted to post my "two cents" worth.
> 
> I have been a TiVo owner since 2011 and have owned both the TiVo Premiere and Roamio. Now we know everyone has a different location that impacts reception to one degree or another; and we certainly know that one size or type of antenna does not fit all situations as there are so many variables with tuners and TV reception at different locations.
> 
> ...


The OTA tuners in the premiere are inferior to all other Tivo models especially for VHF channels. The Roamio has better OTA tuners than the premiere but it still has to split the signal to 4 tuners while your TV only has 1 tuner. You could try an outdoor antenna in your attic with a rotater that you can control from your TV. This will provide you with much greater precision to find the optimal antenna position to receive the signal.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

IF you are comparing the signal NUMBERS readings on the tuners scan screen between different devices, IE your tv set and your Roamio, those numbers are *not comparable*.

70% on one device, may be 50% or 100% or whatever on another device. There is _NO_ universal standard to match numbers. That confuses people every day, but I can assure you it's absolutely true.

So, your tv set may say it gets one channel at 100% signal. Your Roamio may say it only gets that same channel at 72%. So, 72% on the Roamio is the SAME as 100% on your tv set. It does NOT mean the Roamios tuners aren't as good as the tv sets just because it also doesn't say 100%...


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## scott784 (Jun 2, 2019)

Sure, I understand the signal number readings on the tuners are different on each device and the fact that those numbers are not comparable. So in sharing my experience, I am not comparing those signal numbers directly. As you say, 70% on one device may be 100% on another. And of course, the fact that there is no universal standard to match the numbers. So no confusion (on my end) about that, although I am sure (as you say) it confuses others.

But let me put it this way, signal numbers aside, all I can say is that it's been my personal experience that with all factors being accounted for at the exact same location of the receiver (i.e. antenna type, amplification, etc.) that I have consistently received better overall performance through the native TV's tuners versus my TiVo(s) whether we are talking about my Premiere or Roamio.

As an example here, I have encountered scenarios where I've maintained a steady picture on the native tuner while the TiVo has pixelated under the exact same circumstances. There simply doesn't appear to be the same level of sensitivity. I cannot begin to speak for everyone; and I don't have all the answers as to the the "whys" behind this situation.

Since I like TiVo and it's many features, I have always "wanted" to say the tuners match each other. But it just isn't what I've witnessed.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Every now-and-again when I am having a new TiVo reception issue on one of my "regular" stations, I switch to my TV's tuner with the hope that the reception will be better. For the good or bad of it, it generally has been the same (with Series 2, Roamio, and Bolt boxes). YMMV.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I recently had a Roamio, Bolt, and Premiere on my antenna feed. All three boxes received the same channels in my area. Even the low signal channels came in the same on all three.


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