# Need UPS info and advice



## jdguay (Jun 15, 2003)

I am awaiting my weaknees hard drive replacement kit. The drive in my HDVR2 died last week. The unit is almost 4 years old so the drive was probably due, however I have had a few power outages, you know where the power goes off and on three times then shuts off completely, and wonder if they may have contributed to the untimely demise of my HD. So I'm thinking of putting the repaired unit on an UPS.
So, at work yesterday I'm walking through office furniture purgatory, the place where old file cabinets and pencil sharpeners go to gather dust, and WOW a Tripp Lite BC PRO 1400 UPS. I took it home and plugged it in and ... nothing. I believe the batteries are drained beyond recharging. I checked and I can get a replacement battery pack for around $90.
Finally my question, is it worth the new battery pack or should I buy a new ups for around the $90? Any recommendations on a different one, are there some specifically for audio/video?
Thanks for your time.


----------



## John T Smith (Jun 17, 2004)

Since you do not KNOW why the unit was sitting gathering dust... don't risk a blow up!

Buy a new unit


----------



## IminMs (Sep 10, 2006)

Well let's weigh that out.......Old UPS w/new batteries....$99
NEW UPS w/ NEW batteries and warranty.........$99

You make the choice.... Actually you only need about 10-15mins battery time to cover a 3-5 second outages like you described on/off/on/off/on. If your willing to spend $99 on new batteries, you can get a much smaller one around $30-40 new. You just need it to cover the fluctuation time, not to keep the recorder recording or to give it time to power down.

Just my $99 worth


----------



## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I recommend against Tripp-Lite models. They have crude charging circuits that overheat the batteries.

If you have a local BatteriesPlus store you may be able to find replacement batteries much cheaper. You probably can't get a 1400VA model new for $90, but that size is overkill for a TiVo.


----------



## l2bengtrek (May 31, 2006)

but that size is overkill for a TiVo. 


what is the ideal size?


----------



## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

A simple 500VA model will probably run the TiVo for 30 minutes or more. Even a basic 250 or 300VA model is enough to provide 10 minutes or so of power.

Just make sure you don't plug the TV into the UPS as well. You'd need a much larger UPS to run a TV for any significant time. (And a large TV might well exceed the peak capacity of a 500VA or smaller UPS)


----------



## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

My experience is that a relatively new 350VA model can power a DTiVo for 45 minutes, at least. I find that a 550VA model is a good match.


----------



## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Also, if you need the TiVo to continue to record through the power outage, make sure the powered multiswitch (if you have one) is on the UPS.

With TiVos, there is no reason to power the TV.


----------



## dagap (Dec 5, 2003)

Check the deal sites.

e.g. niftyness.com shows a Belkin 550VA for $30 after rebate at CompUSA. Free shipping available via coupon code FREESHIP.

http://www.niftyness.com/nndd/cusa.php?a=319842


----------



## Dkerr24 (Oct 29, 2004)

I'm using 350va APC UPS units on both of my DTivos that I picked up at the local Wally World for $35. They seem to handle the load of a single DTivo unit quite well, although we seldom have power outages here that last more than a few seconds.


----------



## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

I'm running my whole entertainment system (TV, stereo, TiVo) off an APC Back-UPS 650. Runs the system for around a half hour. Modern electronics don't draw a whole lot of current. I think any ol' UPS will be sufficient for just the TiVo. BTW, get a new one. Don't waste your time and money on an old unit. It may be the batteries, but may not be.


----------



## sk33t3r (Jul 9, 2003)

refurbups.com You can find the batteries at a local electronic store as well.

I have my hd component switcher, tivo and tv all on one ups, so when the power goes out I still have tv, came in very handy during hurricane Rita last year.


----------



## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

JimSpence said:


> With TiVos, there is no reason to power the TV.


I kind of disagree with you. DLP TV's contain a bulb that gets really hot. So hot the fan doesn't shutoff until almost a minute after I turn the TV off. I have to believe that it is better for the DLP to not have the power pulled completely until it has had a chance to cool itself down first.

My 52" DLP only pulls 200 watts. The Tivo pulls 40 watts. Most any UPS should be able to handle both at the same time. besides that the TV is far more valuable than the Tivo. If I was going to protect one or the other it would be TV first, Tivo second.

Best of all it freaks people out when we are watching TV and the power goes out but the show keeps going and going and going...


----------



## sk33t3r (Jul 9, 2003)

HiDefGator said:


> Best of all it freaks people out when we are watching TV and the power goes out but the show keeps going and going and going...


We get the same reaction here. I still freak out the lights go out, fans but the damn tv is still working.


----------



## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

Yea, it's nice when things keep working during power service drop-outs. The TV is a more expensive appliance than the TiVo, but an S3 costs a fair amount of money as well. I'd protect both. My 37" LCD TV draws 100 Watts which is relatively low so even with the TiVo, I could still run both off a $50 UPS from Office Depot. Well worth the investment I think.


----------



## sk33t3r (Jul 9, 2003)

100 watts, Im still using a reprojector 65" Mitsu which pulls 350 watts. But I love it when they stay on during power drops, Im running a smart ups 1200's


----------



## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

LCD TV's draw the least power of the HD types. That's one of the reasons I went for one. My wife has a habit of leaving the TV on all the time. Doing that with a 350 Watt TV would rack-up the power bill a bit.


----------



## Stanley Rohner (Jan 18, 2004)

My experience without a UPS all these years is that you don't really need one.

Just my take on it.


----------



## sk33t3r (Jul 9, 2003)

Well I can tell you this, during hurrican Rita, my UPS's kept my sat and tv up that we took up to the deer lease with us. Rita still knocked out the power up there, 200 miles north of Houston


----------



## cmarrero (Sep 2, 2004)

My whole center and imac is powered by a rackmount APC Smart UPS 2200. I am not even sure how long I can by witholut power. I would guess an 1/2 hour to an hours.

Now my UPS is OVERKILL!  

The UPS weight is about 100lbs, and has 8 batteries I think.

Chris


----------



## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

cmarrero said:


> My whole center and imac is powered by a rackmount APC Smart UPS 2200...Now my UPS is OVERKILL!


My Office is powered by a Smart UPS 1000 with an extra battery pack. It can power one computer for about 4 hours. With everything on, it can power the whole office for around an hour. That has come in handy during power failures. I've had up to 4 computers running off the SU-1000 and it stays within load tolerance. I would guess your SU-2200 is barely loaded, but you can always put more stuff on it if you can wire-up a few service outlets around the house.



> My experience without a UPS all these years is that you don't really need one.


That may be true sometimes, but not always. UPS units usually have pretty good surge protectors in them. I'm running a whole-house surge protector on my breaker panel with UPS on all of my electronics. I also upgraded the surge protectors in my phone service box. There have been several nasty lightning storms in my area since then. I was glad I had the protection. People do lose electronics when lightning strikes close by. My wife lost a stereo and TV before we were married because of that.


----------



## rbreding (Dec 12, 2004)

CraigHB said:


> I'm running my whole entertainment system (TV, stereo, TiVo) off an APC Back-UPS 650. Runs the system for around a half hour. Modern electronics don't draw a whole lot of current. I think any ol' UPS will be sufficient for just the TiVo. BTW, get a new one. Don't waste your time and money on an old unit. It may be the batteries, but may not be.


I would "rethink" that modern electronics gaff.

Your "stereo", which has an amplifier built into it can draw a significant amount of power. That is unless you have one of those cheapo alarm clock stereos.

Plugging your "amplifier" into the battery side of your UPS is bad form, just like plugging in your laser printer is bad form.

http://www.batterywholesale.com/ has excellent pricing on their batteries and shipping is quite reasonable. MUCH MUCH less than batteriesplus (plus tax).


----------



## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Stanley Rohner said:


> My experience without a UPS all these years is that you don't really need one.
> .


Apparently your wife has never missed her daily soap opera episode due to a power outage.

Or had it go out during a big footbal game while 20 people are watching it live.

Lot's of reasons besides system damage for UPS protection.


----------



## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

I use a 900W back UPS for my box and LCD RP Sony. It allows me to shut down the TV or in one instance I kept watching during a 2 minute outage. I prefer the protection a UPS provides on a $2000 TV. The piece of mind doesn't cost that much.


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

l2bengtrek said:


> but that size is overkill for a TiVo.


what about my belkin 1200?  could run tv a while on that one


----------



## luder (Sep 7, 2006)

All this talk about UPS makes me want to get a car battery, sum pump recharger with a small dc to ac converter now that's a UPS system


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

luder said:


> All this talk about UPS makes me want to get a car battery, sum pump recharger with a small dc to ac converter now that's a UPS system


now i wonder...they sell those trickle solar car battery chargers...would this work for a nice tivo backup with your method?


----------



## luder (Sep 7, 2006)

newsposter said:


> now i wonder...they sell those trickle solar car battery chargers...would this work for a nice tivo backup with your method?


Green Energy is always a good way to save money in the long run now i'm no electrical major or anything but, having a wire diagram is alway a start..

Source-->Relay--> Storage-->Converter-->Receptacle

not only we would make a diagram we would also need to find the average energy output by finding this out i use the WAV formula what we need to find is the Total

W= Watts 
A= Amps 
V= Volts

now i am rusty at this but, i think we need total balance

A x V =W

Then take Sum of W / V +10 = total amps

But, it's like the movie from Apollo 13 the question is how long till we land to earth and would the heat shield hold upon re entry


----------



## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

rbreding said:


> Your "stereo", which has an amplifier built into it can draw a significant amount of power. That is unless you have one of those cheapo alarm clock stereos.


I have a pretty basic amplifer, nothing fancy. It doesn't draw much current. High end amplifiers do draw a lot of current because they use liberal bias currents to preserve fidelity. Mine isn't one of those and draws around 100 Watts. A 650VA UPS is all I need.



luder said:


> All this talk about UPS makes me want to get a car battery, sum pump recharger with a small dc to ac converter now that's a UPS system


Actually, I do have car battery with an inverter on it. It can handle 1000 Watts and can run at full load for an hour or so. I use it for camping, but just to compare, the power and run-time capacity is pretty much the same as the Smart-UPS 1000 I'm using in my office. However, the UPS in my office was pretty expensive, IIRC around $800 with the extra battery pack. The car battery with the inverter cost about $150 and it's a hell of lot cheaper to replace the battery. Battery replacement costs about $300 with my Smart UPS. I realize you were kidding when you wrote that, but you could build a pretty nice UPS for cheap with a car battery, inverter, and charger. However, don't think the wife would like the idea of a lead-acid battery sitting on carpet and your guests might think that's a little strange as well.


----------



## Joe C (Jul 8, 2002)

luder said:


> All this talk about UPS makes me want to get a car battery, sum pump recharger with a small dc to ac converter now that's a UPS system


You want this http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=2938 to charge your car battery. I use this with deep cycle marine batteries that are located in the garage. My 3 tivos are the only things connected to it.


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

CraigHB said:


> idea of a lead-acid battery sitting on carpet and your guests might think that's a little strange as well.


plus wont a battery discharge if sitting on the ground?


----------



## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

newsposter said:


> plus wont a battery discharge if sitting on the ground?


Only on cement and dirt. Carpet and wood are good insulators.

On the subject of high capacity UPS, I used to work at a major hospital where they had a massive UPS system for a very large computer room. It comprised a bank of lead-acid batteries that covered a whole wall and a 50KW inverter. You could power a house with it for quite a while I bet. So, using discrete lead-acid batteries with inverters and chargers is something that is often done in industry. It wouldn't be unreasonable to have a battery shack for your house, especially if you live in an area subject to hurricane damage.


----------



## snickerrrrs (Mar 31, 2006)

I use a APC 600 unit and it as never failed me. I was using a APC 400 but I think the battery was old so it shut down my R10 then restarted. I suggest searching the web for a better price on batteries for your Tripplite unit. I saw a site called provantage that had a new battery for my UPS 400 for $18.41 plus shipping (they sell batterytech batteries). Just make sure you register for your warranty! Good Luck!


----------



## luder (Sep 7, 2006)

CraigHB said:


> I have a pretty basic amplifer, nothing fancy. It doesn't draw much current. High end amplifiers do draw a lot of current because they use liberal bias currents to preserve fidelity. Mine isn't one of those and draws around 100 Watts. A 650VA UPS is all I need.
> 
> Actually, I do have car battery with an inverter on it. It can handle 1000 Watts and can run at full load for an hour or so. I use it for camping, but just to compare, the power and run-time capacity is pretty much the same as the Smart-UPS 1000 I'm using in my office. However, the UPS in my office was pretty expensive, IIRC around $800 with the extra battery pack. The car battery with the inverter cost about $150 and it's a hell of lot cheaper to replace the battery. Battery replacement costs about $300 with my Smart UPS. I realize you were kidding when you wrote that, but you could build a pretty nice UPS for cheap with a car battery, inverter, and charger. However, don't think the wife would like the idea of a lead-acid battery sitting on carpet and your guests might think that's a little strange as well.


Wow so you have actually done this i'm pretty zealous I always wanted to make green energy ever since july me and my buddies were drunk and counjour up some energy saving methods like using ole' faithful to a turbine generator lol.. however your estimation in the battery is intresting.. So i decided to look around and see the energy consumption and found my Entertainment system uses about four hours or fives hours but, it can vary .. Oh, I know a idea what you can do for the battery on the floor.. A buddy of mine did a project on his car he installed a turbo charger on his civic but, he couldn't start cause of the inter-cooler tube fed air thru the wheel wall down to the passenger side fender so I had a idea why don't we move the battery in the trunk and feed wires to it like the competition audio gear heads that use extra batteries for some major power.. so we went to to homedepot and bought 18 ft of Zero Gauge wires after looking at some wires we walked thru one aisle and came across sum pumps then a white box glazed my eye that look like a battery we read the description and it said it was water proof so we bought it ever since we installed it .. everyone started getting it haha it was fun


----------



## luder (Sep 7, 2006)

newsposter said:


> plus wont a battery discharge if sitting on the ground?


Yeap a car battery is so strong that the electrons will meet the easiest way out.. so much that if you lay it on the ground it will literally spill from the terminal --> plastic wall of the battery--> To the ground.. The sad part is grounding occurs almost in most car that if, it's not maintained properly


----------



## luder (Sep 7, 2006)

snickerrrrs said:


> I use a APC 600 unit and it as never failed me. I was using a APC 400 but I think the battery was old so it shut down my R10 then restarted. I suggest searching the web for a better price on batteries for your Tripplite unit. I saw a site called provantage that had a new battery for my UPS 400 for $18.41 plus shipping (they sell batterytech batteries). Just make sure you register for your warranty! Good Luck!


You know A while ago someone gave me a APC unit that had a simalir prob with the battery i now that i thnk about it i think it's the same size of a motorcycle battery or more likely one of them Exit signs you see in hallways may give them a try


----------



## sk33t3r (Jul 9, 2003)

The battery will also have to be well ventilated, they give off sulfuric acid gases. 

You can also pick up a dry cell batteries at most electronic supply shops or order them online. You just need to get thw same voltage and mAH rating


----------



## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

If you have a "BatteriesPlus" store near you, they carry sealed lead-acid batteries for just about every UPS model out there.


----------



## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

luder said:


> ...counjour up some energy saving methods like using ole' faithful to a turbine generator lol.


I've always thought in terms of drilling into the earth and tapping the geothermal energy. You could spin alot of turbines with the steam you'd get from a pipe running deep enough into the earths' crust. Only problem is, we don't have the technology to drill that deep, but if we could, huge amounts of free energy.



luder said:


> ...then a white box glazed my eye that look like a battery we read the description and it said it was water proof so we bought it...


Even with a proper container, lead acid batteries, under certain conditions, emit highly flammable hydrogen gas. Batteries of this type have to be operated in an area with some amount of positive ventilation. But otherwise, they are the cheapest/best way to store electricity. Hopefully that will change with future battery tech.

UPS batteries are basicly lead-acid, but use a special gel electrolyte that does not emit this gas. That's why they are much more expensive. Car batteries that are "maintenance free" also use a gel elctroltye and may be safe (not sure about that) to run in an enclosed area.


----------



## chrishicks (Dec 31, 2003)

we can get power outages here that can last for 8hrs or more in the summer. are there any UPS systems that have the ability to sustain a standby/record time for that long for 1/2 dtivos? I know that time frame is pretty outrageous but I figured I could ask.


----------



## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

One of those 1200VA models which can take an external battery (APC makes some) should do it.


----------



## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

stevel said:


> chrishicks said:
> 
> 
> > we can get power outages here that can last for 8hrs or more in the summer. are there any UPS systems that have the ability to sustain a standby/record time for that long for 1/2 dtivos? I know that time frame is pretty outrageous but I figured I could ask.
> ...


Just a note. Usually when you get up to the 8 hour range it is more cost effective to get a smaller UPS and an inexpensive generator, rather than a giant UPS.

This of course presumes that you have some place to put and use a generator, and that you will be around to start it up.

At serious runtime gas is cheaper than batteries.


----------

