# 20.5.2 Release Notes



## TiVoMargret

Early tomorrow we will begin authorizing boxes for the 20.5.2 update. If you would like to be one of the first to receive this update, there is still time to sign up for the Priority List: http://tivo.com/priority (ignore the incorrect reference to 20.4.8 on the page). If not, your box will be updated in August.

Here are some changes in this release:
- You can now turn on a Recordings category in My Shows if you want a flat list of all of your recordings, sorted by date or name. Press the A button in My Shows to customize your categories.
- OnePass recording options now include a Record: Everything option, if you want to record all airings of a show, including duplicates.
- Roamio Plus and Roamio Pro boxes can now stream MPEG-4 content to the TiVo iOS App (v3.5.2 or newer) and the TiVo Android app (v3.0)
- Fixed an issue where audio would play, but no video was displayed
- Fixed an issue where auto-playing a large group of shows from a remote DVR would give a V125 error
- Fixed an issue where WishLists were displaying an incorrect auto-record status
- Fixed issues related to freezes when using the Amazon app
- Fixed an issue where bulk deleting of streaming video links from a mobile app could cause a reboot
- Fixed an issue where lengthy Closed Captions were disappearing more quickly than they should


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## The Merg

Thanks Margret!


- Merg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## waynomo

I assume if we signed up months ago we don't need to resubmit our TSNs.


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## Yudoka

When will the sound issue dropping after pausing or otherwise manipulating the show be fixed? Really annoying needing to pause and unpause or turn the TV on and off to fix the issue.


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## BigJimOutlaw

MPEG4 streaming support!


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## gamo62

I wonderif that will also work on TiVo online?


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## Finalrinse

Received the update on 2 Roamio's and 4 Mini's.
Thanks Margret!
Tom


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## wmcbrine

TiVoMargret said:


> - Roamio Plus and Roamio Pro boxes can now stream MPEG-4 content to the TiVo iOS App (v3.5.2 or newer) and the TiVo Android app (v3.0)


So, not the standalone Stream? Also, not to TiVo Online?


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## kbmb

waynomo said:


> I assume if we signed up months ago we don't need to resubmit our TSNs.


Looks that way. I signed up prior and my boxes are getting the update this morning.

-Kevin


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## jcthorne

Thanks Margret, Much appreciate the info for the new release. Does indeed look like tivo has been listening to some of the difficulties some users experienced after OnePass.


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## Sixto

Thanks Margret.


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## JoeKustra

Wow. Premiere too! I'm impressed.

Just so you don't forget, the DVR Diagnostics is now labeled TiVo box Diagnostics.


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## jrtroo

Wow, this update seems to hit on a majority of the issues/bugs being discussed around here. Not that there not more bugs to hunt down, but what are people going to talk about on the forums?


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## Sixto

Hmmm. Just booted up with 20.5.2, and the "recordings" category didn't show on the left. Then went into Options and it wasn't checked by default, and when I check it, it doesn't stay checked when saved. Haven't figured out a way to show the category yet.


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## astrohip

TiVoMargret said:


> - Fixed an issue where lengthy Closed Captions were disappearing more quickly than they should


Thanks for all of 20.5.2, but especially this. As a deaf viewer, this was critical, and I appreciate the speed of your response and fix.

:up::up::up:


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## BigJimOutlaw

wmcbrine said:


> So, not the standalone Stream? Also, not to TiVo Online?


The FiOS h.264 channel I checked seems to work. Stream will need its own update, of course.


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## atmuscarella

Yep both my Premiere and Roamio where "pending restart" both restarting now.

Update - Both are now updated:

Roamio: 20.5.2-USA-6-846

Premiere: 20.5.2-01-2-746

Thanks Margret!


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## tomhorsley

TiVoMargret said:


> - OnePass recording options now include a "Record: Everything" option, if you want to record all airings of a show, including duplicates.


Hallelujah! I'll be able to switch my wish lists back to one pass and stop getting Dr. Oz recordings mixed in with my Doctor Who recordings .


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## Blakeintosh

Thank you Margret and the rest of the development team. I'm thrilled to see these improvements and I'm sure you guys are glad to have these enhancements checked off the list.

Just curious, is the TiVo startup movie gone? I've updated 2 Roamios and 2 Mini's and none of them have the startup movie any more. I even rebooted them after the update to see if it would play, and it didn't.


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## andyf

Blakeintosh said:


> Thank you Margret and the rest of the development team. I'm thrilled to see these improvements and I'm sure you guys are glad to have these enhancements checked off the list.
> 
> Just curious, is the TiVo startup movie gone? I've updated 2 Roamios and 2 Mini's and none of them have the startup movie any more. I even rebooted them after the update to see if it would play, and it didn't.


Oh! Didn't even notice. You're right, there was no startup movie. Even pressing '0' from the main menu doesn't work.


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## Blakeintosh

It looks like I found a bug. If you checkmark all categories for My Shows, the bottom most category will not display, even if it is checkmarked. I moved Recordings up the list, and it will display, but then Suggestions...which is at the bottom of the list disappeared. I tried this on both a base Roamio and a Roamio Pro.


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## dalabera

BigJimOutlaw said:


> MPEG4 streaming support!


What is this for? Could it be for those cable companies using that encoding on their channels?


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## BigJimOutlaw

dalabera said:


> What is this for? Could it be for those cable companies using that encoding on their channels?


Yes. mpeg4 channels/recordings were unable to be streamed to the iOS and Android apps (as well as the new Tivo Online site). Now they can.


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## Blakeintosh

dalabera said:


> What is this for? Could it be for those cable companies using that encoding on their channels?


That is correct. Cable companies are beginning to transition their channels from MPEG2 to MPEG4, to free up bandwidth for additional HD channels or Internet capacity. While the Roamio and Premiere have been capable of viewing and recording MPEG4 for a while, you could not stream MPEG4 recordings to your mobile devices...until today. As noted in Margret's release notes, only the builtin Stream in the Roamio Pro/Plus is included in this update. The assumption would be that the standalone TiVo Stream will be updated next.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lurker1

Can I finally delete that undeletable zombie recording that has been there for months?


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## HazelW

What about the problem with exiting the MLB app where the TiVo or mini reboots. Happens about half the time.


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## ajwees41

kbmb said:


> Looks that way. I signed up prior and my boxes are getting the update this morning.
> 
> -Kevin


not mine I added both mine right when the sign ups went live although doesn't look like premiere got any thing


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## chiguy50

Both my Premiere Elite and Mini got the 20.5.2 update this morning. The only issue I've noted so far has been that Xfinity OD did not work on either unit following installation of the updated FW. But reconnecting the network to the TiVo service on each box seems to have resolved the XOD issue for now.


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## Jed1

I had both of myPremeire 4s replaced under the extended warranty, one in early March and the other one in the middle of May. I wasn't sure if the second one was on the Priority list as I could not remember when I signed them up.
I checked my two Premiere 4s and my bedroom one was scheduled to connect at 12:11 PM so I let it connect as scheduled. When I checked it at 12:30 PM it had a pending restart.
My living room one was not scheduled to connect until 5:30 PM this afternoon so I forced a connection and it downloaded the update.

I noticed that the start up animation is now completely gone. 

Also when you add the recording option in the My Shows column it does not show up in the column if you have all the options checked. You have to either move the recordings option up in the list, which will make the bottom option disappear, or you have to uncheck one of the options to get it to show.
It seems that there is not enough space in the left hand column to show all the options in the list.
I do not know if this is a bug or just a limitation of the TiVo menu system.

That is the only two things I see wrong so far.


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## WorldBandRadio

Is there a way to revert to the version prior to 20.5.2?

When I change the priority of a show in the OnePass Manager, the "Still Updating" window pops up and the screen freezes. I cannot "press" the OK on the Still Updating window.

In order to get rid of the Still Updating window I have to restart the TiVo.


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## lpwcomp

WorldBandRadio said:


> Is there a way to revert to the version prior to 20.5.2?


No.



WorldBandRadio said:


> When I change the priority of a show in the OnePass Manager, the "Still Updating" window pops up and the screen freezes. I cannot "press" the OK on the Still Updating window.
> 
> In order to get rid of the Still Updating window I have to restart the TiVo.


That's bad.

Update: Just tested this myself on My Base Roamio and had no problem. Note: This update is simply an additional data point.


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## NorthAlabama

WorldBandRadio said:


> Is there a way to revert to the version prior to 20.5.2?
> 
> When I change the priority of a show in the OnePass Manager, the "Still Updating" window pops up and the screen freezes. I cannot "press" the OK on the Still Updating window.
> 
> In order to get rid of the Still Updating window I have to restart the TiVo.


i would try forcing a connection to see if that helps, and if it doesn't, i would clear program information & to do list.


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## RoyK

Lurker1 said:


> Can I finally delete that undeletable zombie recording that has been there for months?


I have one of those too and no, I can't delete it with the updated software either. No idea why I got the update so soon. I didn't sign up for priority update.


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## CharlesH

One has never been able to roll back the software on a TiVo. The excuse given has always been that the layout of databases on the box changes between software versions, and they don't have any tools to "undo" these changes.


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## WorldBandRadio

NorthAlabama said:


> i would try forcing a connection to see if that helps, and if it doesn't, i would clear program information & to do list.


Thanks. I'll try that tomorrow when I don't have a bunch of recordings on the schedule.


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## rainwater

CharlesH said:


> One has never been able to roll back the software on a TiVo.


Actually, it has happened before (and once by accident I believe). However, you are right. Downgrading would generally require TiVo to downgrade databases and it seems like a waste of time for them to spend resources on.


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## UCLABB

This is undoubtedly a lame question, but when you have the "pending restart" what action do you take? Go to help and restart the box? Or just wait?


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## lpwcomp

UCLABB said:


> This is undoubtedly a lame question, but when you have the "pending restart" what action do you take? Go to help and restart the box? Or just wait?


Either. If you have no recordings scheduled for next hour or so (just to be sure, Actually shouldn't take that long), go ahead and force a restart. Otherwise, I believe it waits until the middle of the night (0200?) assuming it is idle at that point.


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## NorthAlabama

UCLABB said:


> This is undoubtedly a lame question, but when you have the "pending restart" what action do you take? Go to help and restart the box? Or just wait?


restarting through help applies the update immediately, but will interrupt any recordings during the time it takes to complete, so allow 30 minutes to an hour for the update to finish before the next show scheduled in your to do list.

waiting works too, tivo will reboot automatically overnight if there are no recordings in progress, but it doesn't check for scheduled recordings before updating, so you might miss a recording during the update.


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## ustavio

astrohip said:


> Thanks for all of 20.5.2, but especially this. As a deaf viewer, this was critical, and I appreciate the speed of your response and fix.
> 
> :up::up::up:


I haven"t got it yet so the question I have relates to the need to toggle between CC1 and Digital captions on the hand full of channels that don"t do digital. On My old Tivo HD, I have both on and every thing works just fine. Although the disappearing caption issue was annoying, the multiple steps to engage/disengage one followed by the same multiple steps to get back to whatever we're watching is even beyond annoying.


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## morac

NorthAlabama said:


> waiting works too, tivo will reboot automatically overnight if there are no recordings in progress, but it doesn't check for scheduled recordings before updating, so you might miss a recording during the update.


Actually it does check for scheduled recordings. I don't remember the exact time, I think it's only in the next 10 minutes, but that should be good enough since most programs start on the 0 or 30 minute mark.


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## morac

I'm curious as to reasoning behind removing the start up video?


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## lpwcomp

morac said:


> I'm curious as to reasoning behind removing the start up video?


It was probably annoying some users who didn't know you could stop it by hitting most any remote button.


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## rainwater

lpwcomp said:


> It was probably annoying some users who didn't know you could stop it by hitting most any remote button.


How often are people restarting that it would become annoying? AFAIK, there has been problems playing the startup video for the last few updates. Perhaps it is a bug or perhaps they couldn't fix it and just disabled it.


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## lpwcomp

rainwater said:


> How often are people restarting that it would become annoying? AFAIK, there has been problems playing the startup video for the last few updates. Perhaps it is a bug or perhaps they couldn't fix it and just disabled it.


I didn't say that the annoyance was logical.


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## Bytez

Will there be an update to the Android app and any improvements to OOH streaming? Perhaps remove the proxy once and for all? :up:


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## astrohip

ustavio said:


> I haven"t got it yet so the question I have relates to the need to toggle between CC1 and Digital captions on the hand full of channels that don"t do digital. On My old Tivo HD, I have both on and every thing works just fine. Although the disappearing caption issue was annoying, the multiple steps to engage/disengage one followed by the same multiple steps to get back to whatever we're watching is even beyond annoying.


Actually, I don't have it yet either. I quit signing up for early admission several updates ago. I was doing a preemptive thank you. 

Having said that... assuming this works, you can go back to analog captions only, and not have to play the switch back/forth game any more. I have yet to see a single advantage to digicaps (other than this temporary fix). If there was something demonstrably better about digicaps, then yeah, we'd be flipping. But since they are the same, stick with analog captions and problem solved.


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## UCLABB

astrohip said:


> Actually, I don't have it yet either. I quit signing up for early admission several updates ago. I was doing a preemptive thank you.
> 
> Having said that... assuming this works, you can go back to analog captions only, and not have to play the switch back/forth game any more. I have yet to see a single advantage to digicaps (other than this temporary fix). If there was something demonstrably better about digicaps, then yeah, we'd be flipping. But since they are the same, stick with analog captions and problem solved.


Seems to work well now with both analog and digital caps selected. Now I can watch Mr. Robot without going into settings!


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## foghorn2

My son wants the startup animation back


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## PedjaR

astrohip said:


> Actually, I don't have it yet either. I quit signing up for early admission several updates ago. I was doing a preemptive thank you.
> 
> Having said that... assuming this works, you can go back to analog captions only, and not have to play the switch back/forth game any more. I have yet to see a single advantage to digicaps (other than this temporary fix). If there was something demonstrably better about digicaps, then yeah, we'd be flipping. But since they are the same, stick with analog captions and problem solved.


There are some uses for digital captions: I have noticed in the past that several BBC America shows have only digicaps, and display garbage unless not only digicaps are on, but also analog captions are turned off - the exact opposite of some USA/SyFy shows. Would be nice if we had a one-button three way toggle for captions (off/analog/digital). Would be even nicer if all channels (or at least all HD channels) would switch to the same type of captions.


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## tootal2

I hope it will fix the screen going blank problem I had to reboot my tivo two times today becouse of it 

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


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## MikeekiM

Not sure if this fixes the problem that has been plaguing me...

Can I set up the equivalent OnePass to:
- Record all new episodes of a series and keep until space is needed
- Record a set of repeat episodes of the same series in syndication on a different channel and keep until I delete

This is an important feature for watching programs that have been on for a long period of time where you want to keep and watch the brand new shows, but never watched the older episodes and just want a queue of reruns that you can conveniently access. This was accomplished in the past with two season passes.


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## bmgoodman

Also fixed in this version is wake to menu rather than wake to Live TV, at least when waking using the Tivo button. Glad to have this back!


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## Wattsline

lpwcomp said:


> It was probably annoying some users who didn't know you could stop it by hitting most any remote button.


It was probably the software developers turned it off and forgot to turn it back on in the release.


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## RoyK

MikeekiM said:


> Not sure if this fixes the problem that has been plaguing me...
> 
> Can I set up the equivalent OnePass to:
> - Record all new episodes of a series and keep until space is needed
> - Record a set of repeat episodes of the same series in syndication on a different channel and keep until I delete
> 
> This is an important feature for watching programs that have been on for a long period of time where you want to keep and watch the brand new shows, but never watched the older episodes and just want a queue of reruns that you can conveniently access. This was accomplished in the past with two season passes.


Welcome to the club. Unfortunately TiVo has not seen fit to restore this feature which was unnecessarily ripped from the software in the name of *One*Pass. :down::down::down:


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## lew

royk said:


> welcome to the club. Unfortunately tivo has not seen fit to restore this feature which was unnecessarily ripped from the software in the name of *one*pass. :down::down::down:


+1


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## denniswebb

REALLY bummed out the loss of audio when pausing and using Dolby Digital was not fixed. I WANT MY DOLBY DIGITAL!!!!! How this is not at the top of the list of bugs to be fixed is beyond me.


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## tatergator1

morac said:


> I'm curious as to reasoning behind removing the start up video?


Dave Zatz's post on 20.5.2 suggested a new/updated video might be in the works incorporating the new Tivo branding that has been slowly showing up here or there in recent Tivo releases. A good example of the new logo/branding is the header for online.tivo.com.


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## Time_Lord

well now I know why my Tivo reloaded early this morning at about 5am


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## morac

tatergator1 said:


> Dave Zatz's post on 20.5.2 suggested a new/updated video might be in the works incorporating the new Tivo branding that has been slowly showing up here or there in recent Tivo releases. A good example of the new logo/branding is the header for online.tivo.com.


That doesn't explain why the old one was removed now. It would make more sense to simple swap the video when the new one is done if that were the case.


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## WorldBandRadio

NorthAlabama said:


> i would try forcing a connection to see if that helps, and if it doesn't, i would clear program information & to do list.


I just tried this again. What I could reproduce easily yesterday, no longer occurs. Though there was a 'connection' this morning. I'm wondering if that had anything to do with the problem going away.

In any case, thanks for your reply.


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## WorldBandRadio

RoyK said:


> Welcome to the club. Unfortunately TiVo has not seen fit to restore this feature which was unnecessarily ripped from the software in the name of *One*Pass. :down::down::down:


The ability to have differing record attributes for different [Season or One]Passes of the same show was a very significant loss when OnePass was implemented.


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## NorthAlabama

WorldBandRadio said:


> I just tried this again. What I could reproduce easily yesterday, no longer occurs. Though there was a 'connection' this morning. I'm wondering if that had anything to do with the problem going away.
> 
> In any case, thanks for your reply.


glad it's resolved. :up: there have been other random reports of temporary scheduling & 1p mgr errors (before the update), it could have been just a badly timed coincidence.


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## jayfest

I got 20.5.2 today on my Roamio, but not on my Premiere and since then, if I go to My Shows on the Premiere, and try to see what's on the Roamio, I get an Unexpected Problem C501. I called TiVo Support and they confirmed what I suspected, that there have been quite a few people reporting this problem between DVRs with differing versions of the software. They added my Premiere to the Priority list for 20.5.2 and I assume the problem will disappear when the Premiere upgrades. In the meantime, of course, because both of my DVRs are connected to the same TV, I can just go to the Roamio and look at recordings on both the Roamio and Premiere with no problem.


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## UCLABB

jayfest said:


> I got 20.5.2 today on my Roamio, but not on my Premiere and since then, if I go to My Shows on the Premiere, and try to see what's on the Roamio, I get an Unexpected Problem C501. I called TiVo Support and they confirmed what I suspected, that there have been quite a few people reporting this problem between DVRs with differing versions of the software. They added my Premiere to the Priority list for 20.5.2 and I assume the problem will disappear when the Premiere upgrades. In the meantime, of course, because both of my DVRs are connected to the same TV, I can just go to the Roamio and look at recordings on both the Roamio and Premiere with no problem.


Yeah, I got that on my mini yesterday. Fortunately, it had gotten the update pending a restart. I restarted and all was well.


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## morac

jayfest said:


> I got 20.5.2 today on my Roamio, but not on my Premiere and since then, if I go to My Shows on the Premiere, and try to see what's on the Roamio, I get an Unexpected Problem C501. I called TiVo Support and they confirmed what I suspected, that there have been quite a few people reporting this problem between DVRs with differing versions of the software. They added my Premiere to the Priority list for 20.5.2 and I assume the problem will disappear when the Premiere upgrades. In the meantime, of course, because both of my DVRs are connected to the same TV, I can just go to the Roamio and look at recordings on both the Roamio and Premiere with no problem.


Do you enable the new recordings category on the Roamio? It's possible the Premiere doesn't know what to make of that without the update.


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## moonscape

Thank you! Love this update: being able to sort groups by name/date out of groups again is fantastic! And - not tested yet, but the caption disappearing act being fixed is huge.


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## jayfest

morac said:


> Do you enable the new recordings category on the Roamio? It's possible the Premiere doesn't know what to make of that without the update.


I did enable it. I was using that option on the Roamio the first time I switched to the Premiere and got the bug when I looked back at the Roamio. So I went back to the Roamio and switched to a different view of My Shows, but I did not disable the Recordings view, and I still hit the bug. So just enabling that view may well be the problem.

I'm not even sure this is a bug worth fixing, since it will be moot once anybody's DVRs are all on the same new software version. I brought this up largely to mention that TiVo Support is aware of it and will add your DVR to the 20.5.2 Priority list if you haven't already done it yourself. After that it should be just a couple of days before the bug won't affect you anymore.


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## jsquare

Anyone experiencing loss of signal on all channels or unexpected reboots after this update?
Mine updated yesterday on the middle of the day while watching live TV, last night rebooted several times while recording or watching live TV again, and this morning all the channels were giving the low signal error, I did a signal check and all the channels came back, also rebooted my TiVo Mini which still on 2.4.7.


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## cherry ghost

morac said:


> Do you enable the new recordings category on the Roamio? It's possible the Premiere doesn't know what to make of that without the update.


Unchecking "recordings" on the box with the update fixed it for me.


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## mmf01

jayfest said:


> I got 20.5.2 today on my Roamio, but not on my Premiere and since then, if I go to My Shows on the Premiere, and try to see what's on the Roamio, I get an Unexpected Problem C501. I called TiVo Support and they confirmed what I suspected, that there have been quite a few people reporting this problem between DVRs with differing versions of the software. They added my Premiere to the Priority list for 20.5.2 and I assume the problem will disappear when the Premiere upgrades. In the meantime, of course, because both of my DVRs are connected to the same TV, I can just go to the Roamio and look at recordings on both the Roamio and Premiere with no problem.


I'm having the exact opposite problem. I put both my Premiere and Roamio on the list and only the Premiere updated. Roamio hasn't updated yet.


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## morac

Has anyone experienced audio issues with this update?

The first program I played after the update had periodic half second audio dropouts. I figured it was the program, but yesterday I was watching "live" HBO, a little ahead of the beginning of the buffer and it started doing half second audio drops about once every second or two. It sounded like the audio was stuttering. I did an instant replay and it stopped.


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## tootal2

I haven't got a blank screen since the update. I was starting to worry about my tivo. 

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


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## rgr

MikeekiM said:


> Not sure if this fixes the problem that has been plaguing me...
> 
> Can I set up the equivalent OnePass to:
> - Record all new episodes of a series and keep until space is needed
> - Record a set of repeat episodes of the same series in syndication on a different channel and keep until I delete
> 
> This is an important feature for watching programs that have been on for a long period of time where you want to keep and watch the brand new shows, but never watched the older episodes and just want a queue of reruns that you can conveniently access. This was accomplished in the past with two season passes.


I haven't tried this but I think it should work:
Setup a wishlist for the show and set it to record "New only"
Setup a OnePass that records that show on that other channel that allows repeats.


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## WorldBandRadio

NorthAlabama said:


> glad it's resolved. :up: there have been other random reports of temporary scheduling & 1p mgr errors (before the update), it could have been just a badly timed coincidence.


It was strange. I saw different behavior with the "Still Updating" window. Let me take a step back and explain....

What I had been seeing, and what I am seeing now, is the following behavior:

I am on the OnePass page, and I change the priority of a show, moving it on the list of OnePasses. A few seconds after I move the OnePass, I see the word "updating" on the right side of the screen next to all of the OnePasses. Then the "updating" disappears from top to bottom as things are updated. If I were to press the Left button whilst "updating" is on the screen, I'd see a pop-up window saying "Still Updating" and I'd have to press "OK" to dismiss that window and go to the previous menu. All that worked fine.​
The errant behavior I saw (multiple times) that one afternoon just after the 20.5.2 software was installed was the following:

I am on the OnePass page, and I change the priority of a show, moving it on the list of OnePasses. A few seconds after I move the OnePass, I see the word "updating" on the right side of the screen *and* a pop-up window saying "Still Updating" appears. That's right, I did not have to press the "Left" button to trigger that pop-up window, it auto-appeared just as the "updating" appeared in the right side of the screen. It was that pop-up that I could not dismiss by clicking on OK, and that I had to restart the TiVo in order to get functionality back.​
Weird.


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## CoxInPHX

jsquare said:


> Anyone experiencing loss of signal on all channels or unexpected reboots after this update?


Yes, I have had three random reboots between my Roamio Pro and XL4, which is very unusual.

I also had a Tuning Adapter message pop-up, on both TiVos, that I personally have never seen before. I realize others especially w/ Moto TAs have seen this before, but i never have. I reboot my TAs regularly every 3-4 weeks and they had been rebooted within the last 2 weeks.

I lost all channels and had to reboot the TAs and both TiVos
It is possible this is completely unrelated, and was just a coincidence.

The HDUI also appears to be very slow during the "Loading" phase of the network connection, this has happened before in a SW update.


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## ThAbtO

I just got updated to 20.5.2 on the Roamio and I had only enlisted it on the priority list the night before. Got it this morning.


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## Jed1

Last night while watching the Sopranos using Amazon Prime I had the video and audio stop. I could not get the video to play again. The Amazon menu system worked and I backed out to the TiVo menu system.
I noticed that I had no video in the video window. I could not play any recordings on the TiVo or stream from my other TiVo. I would just end up with a black screen.

I went out to live TV and had a black screen with no audio and all 4 tuners. I checked the CableCard diagnostics and I showed all 4 tuners on the conditional access screen. Also the OOB messages was still coming in. I checked the TiVo diagnostics screen and all 4 tuners had very good signal and SNR numbers. The OOB numbers were also normal. The video output for all 4 tuners was only 480i even though they were tuned to all 1080i channels.
I decided to tune the 4 tuners to different channels and now I had no tuners showing on the conditional access menu. OOB messages were still coming in. On the TiVo diagnostics the 4 tuners were tuned to the proper channels and had good signal numbers but I noticed that there was no channel lock and no video or audio PIDs for the 4 tuners.

I determined at this moment that it is the MPEG decoder hardware/software that is the issue because the TiVo will not play any MPEG content. The TiVo, Opera, Vudu, and Amazon menus display fine. I can not play any MPEG video from any source. 
I rebooted the unit and the 4:3 picture was squeezed and the picture was tall and skinny. This remained like this until the resolution switched to 720p. Once the unit rebooted all MPEG video played fine. I went back to the episode I was watching on Amazon and it started where it froze up.

The bad thing is I have been plagued with this issue since last summer and TiVo even replaced both of my Premiere 4s because of this. The TiVo that this happened on was replaced in May. It seems every time I get a software update this issue occurs. I got the update on both of my Premiere 4s the day it was released.


----------



## uw69

Can I be last, please!


----------



## CoxInPHX

uw69 said:


> Can I be last, please!


Or maybe there will be a 20.5.2a release, instead, as TiVo starts to see feedback from the priority list.


----------



## MikeekiM

I am on 20.5.2... Weird that I didn't get any message in my TiVo messages intray with a message that I was upgraded...

My TiVo mini was CRAWLING after the update... Remote key presses were not recognized for about a second or two after pressing the button... I had to reboot and now it seems to be behaving...


----------



## jayfest

cherry ghost said:


> Unchecking "recordings" on the box with the update fixed it for me.


I'm not surprised that it would, but I plan to use that view, starting now. That is the feature I was hoping they'd fix. I like to watch my recordings in chronological order with Groups Off, but that option was removed with the introduction of OnePass. The Recordings view turns groups off, so I plan to use it sometimes, whenever I get backed up in the watching of my recordings. I can wait for the Premiere to catch up with the new software.


----------



## Lurker1

Lurker1 said:


> Can I finally delete that undeletable zombie recording that has been there for months?


No, not fixed.


----------



## timroycny

I put my Roamio And two minis on the priority list two days ago and none have updated. I'm Ethernet and each checks in daily and I tried manually updating. No joy.


----------



## tootal2

Jed1 said:


> Last night while watching the Sopranos using Amazon Prime I had the video and audio stop. I could not get the video to play again. The Amazon menu system worked and I backed out to the TiVo menu system.
> I noticed that I had no video in the video window. I could not play any recordings on the TiVo or stream from my other TiVo. I would just end up with a black screen.
> 
> I went out to live TV and had a black screen with no audio and all 4 tuners. I checked the CableCard diagnostics and I showed all 4 tuners on the conditional access screen. Also the OOB messages was still coming in. I checked the TiVo diagnostics screen and all 4 tuners had very good signal and SNR numbers. The OOB numbers were also normal. The video output for all 4 tuners was only 480i even though they were tuned to all 1080i channels.
> I decided to tune the 4 tuners to different channels and now I had no tuners showing on the conditional access menu. OOB messages were still coming in. On the TiVo diagnostics the 4 tuners were tuned to the proper channels and had good signal numbers but I noticed that there was no channel lock and no video or audio PIDs for the 4 tuners.
> 
> I determined at this moment that it is the MPEG decoder hardware/software that is the issue because the TiVo will not play any MPEG content. The TiVo, Opera, Vudu, and Amazon menus display fine. I can not play any MPEG video from any source.
> I rebooted the unit and the 4:3 picture was squeezed and the picture was tall and skinny. This remained like this until the resolution switched to 720p. Once the unit rebooted all MPEG video played fine. I went back to the episode I was watching on Amazon and it started where it froze up.
> 
> The bad thing is I have been plagued with this issue since last summer and TiVo even replaced both of my Premiere 4s because of this. The TiVo that this happened on was replaced in May. It seems every time I get a software update this issue occurs. I got the update on both of my Premiere 4s the day it was released.


Is was hoping the update would fix this. But I have not seen this problem since the update.

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


----------



## Lurker1

The new software wakes up to TiVo Central, whereas it used to wake up to Live TV. How do I change it back?


----------



## Jed1

tootal2 said:


> Is was hoping the update would fix this. But I have not seen this problem since the update.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


I remember you had a thread about this.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=530184

If you are losing video and audio and also requires you to reboot the box then this update does not fix this.
According to Margret's notes this update fixes the loss of video but still has audio issue.

There has to be something in common between the Premieres and Roamios as it relates to the MPEG decoder as this is what fails.
At first I thought it had something to do with the HDMI output on the unit but when I checked the diagnostics after I retuned the 4 tuners to different channels, I noticed that the unit would not lock onto any channel as it could not decode the MPEG stream.

This is the first time that the issue occurred while watching a streaming video. Normally I had the issue happen while watching a recording directly off the unit or streaming a recording from my other TiVo to this one. I am not certain if I had this happen while watching live TV.

This problem is not related to this software update as I have been plagued with this since last summer. I am not certain if it started with the Haxe update or right before it.

When I got the 1P update in the end of February I had this happen to my living room Premiere about 2 days after the update. TiVo decided to replace the unit. Due to the bad weather at the time I actually did not get the replacement up and running until the middle of March. I kind of disappeared from the forum at that time.
I brought my bedroom TiVo down stairs to use while I waited and when I got the replacement I put that one up in the bedroom.
When I got the 20.4.7 update I had the same thing happen with the TiVo I moved downstairs. I also was experiencing noise and vibrations from the hard drive so TiVo decided to replace that unit also.
Of course it is this replacement that froze up on me the other night.

If you are experiencing the total loss of video and audio then don't be surprised if the problem happens again.
The only thing is I am not sure that this is a problem TiVo can fix. I did contact Margret with all the details of what happened and what I discovered so I hope she can have some one at TiVo to look into this.
If this problem happens to anybody make sure you contact Margret or some one at TiVo so it gets on their radar.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

Lurker1 said:


> The new software wakes up to TiVo Central, whereas it used to wake up to Live TV. How do I change it back?


That's probably a symptom of TiVo's continuing reduction/elimination the DVR/live TV functionality in favor of making TiVo a streaming box.


----------



## Lurker1

WorldBandRadio said:


> That's probably a symptom of TiVo's continuing reduction/elimination the DVR/live TV functionality in favor of making TiVo a streaming box.


Whatever the reason, it has destroyed the usability of my home theater. When someone turns on the TV, it used to come on playing TV. Now it comes on to a menu that they don't know what to do with, and they can't watch TV.


----------



## dianebrat

Lurker1 said:


> Whatever the reason, it has destroyed the usability of my home theater. When someone turns on the TV, it used to come on playing TV. Now it comes on to a menu that they don't know what to do with, and they can't watch TV.


really? the family members are that tech deficient that they can't figure it out?

You could resolve this by turning power saving off to appease the family that doesn't know how a Tivo works


----------



## Lurker1

dianebrat said:


> really? the family members are that tech deficient that they can't figure it out?
> 
> You could resolve this by turning power saving off to appease the family that doesn't know how a Tivo works


Thanks for the suggestion! I'll look for that setting. How much of a power saving difference will this actually make?


----------



## lpwcomp

Lurker1 said:


> Whatever the reason, it has destroyed the usability of my home theater. When someone turns on the TV, it used to come on playing TV. Now it comes on to a menu that they don't know what to do with, and they can't watch TV.


How is it being awakened?


----------



## lessd

Lurker1 said:


> Whatever the reason, it has destroyed the usability of my home theater. When someone turns on the TV, it used to come on playing TV. Now it comes on to a menu that they don't know what to do with, and they can't watch TV.


Live TV button


----------



## Lurker1

lpwcomp said:


> How is it being awakened?


My macro is sending the Tivo key to wake it up. Would it fix my problem if I send the Live TV key instead? I hope so, this is an easy fix.


----------



## JoeKustra

Lurker1 said:


> My macro is sending the Tivo key to wake it up. Would it fix my problem if I send the Live TV key instead? I hope so, this is an easy fix.


Yes, that would work. And the power savings are very very small.


----------



## Lurker1

JoeKustra said:


> Yes, that would work. And the power savings are very very small.


Yes, that fixed it. Thanks everyone for the excellent help and suggestions.

The new software is actually an improvement, since we now have a choice of how to wake up. Both keys used to do the same thing.


----------



## lpwcomp

Lurker1 said:


> My macro is sending the Tivo key to wake it up. Would it fix my problem if I send the Live TV key instead? I hope so, this is an easy fix.


Not trying to be snarky here, but why do you even have a TiVo?


----------



## Lurker1

lpwcomp said:


> Not trying to be snarky here, but why do you even have a TiVo?


Oh, I couldn't live without TiVo. But some people here just want to watch TV, and anything beyond a single button press is too confusing.


----------



## lpwcomp

Lurker1 said:


> Oh, I couldn't live without TiVo. But some people here just want to watch TV, and anything beyond a single button press is too confusing.


So what happens when all of the tuners are busy recording something or the tuner they are watching wants to record something?


----------



## Lurker1

lpwcomp said:


> So what happens when all of the tuners are busy recording something or the tuner they are watching wants to record something?


Let's just say it is not pretty.  Fortunately that is not common.


----------



## justen_m

Lurker1 said:


> The new software wakes up to TiVo Central, whereas it used to wake up to Live TV. How do I change it back?


I haven't tried the update, but if the above is true, I think that is a nice change. I record tons of sports, and I prefer when I turn on my TV it isn't automatically showing live tv that may have instant spoilers. Not major either way. Or am I mis-interpreting the post?


----------



## Lurker1

justen_m said:


> I haven't tried the update, but if the above is true, I think that is a nice change. I record tons of sports, and I prefer when I turn on my TV it isn't automatically showing live tv that may have instant spoilers. Not major either way.


You actually have a choice now with the update. Wake up with TiVo key for menu or with Live TV key for live TV.


----------



## CoxInPHX

Jed1 said:


> I rebooted the unit and the 4:3 picture was squeezed and the picture was tall and skinny. This remained like this until the resolution switched to 720p.


I just rebooted my Roamio Pro to see if that would help the Spinning Blue Circle issue, it did NOT.

And after the TiVo restarted, the HDUI was also squeezed into a 4:3 480p screen with black sidebars, for several seconds. Strange.


----------



## Bytez

Lurker1 said:


> You actually have a choice now with the update. Wake up with TiVo key for menu or with Live TV key for live TV.


It was like this even before the latest update.


----------



## Jed1

CoxInPHX said:


> I just rebooted my Roamio Pro to see if that would help the Spinning Blue Circle issue, it did NOT.
> 
> And after the TiVo restarted, the HDUI was also squeezed into a 4:3 480p screen with black sidebars, for several seconds. Strange.


Since you see the same thing that I did, I wonder if this is a bug as I never seen this happen before this update.


----------



## tim1724

Bytez said:


> It was like this even before the latest update.


No, it was broken in 20.4.6 and 20.4.7. Both Live TV and the TiVo button would go to live TV if the TiVo was in standby.

I'm very glad that the old (logical and flexible) behavior has been restored.


----------



## waynomo

timroycny said:


> I put my Roamio And two minis on the priority list two days ago and none have updated. I'm Ethernet and each checks in daily and I tried manually updating. No joy.


To already have received the update you probably need to have signed up on the priority list when it went live in April. I was in pretty early and wasn't first, but just got the update. You should have it before the general roll out.


----------



## bmgoodman

I had a reboot yesterday after the Tivo froze while playing a previously recorded program. After the reboot, I was able to pick up from where it had frozen, but I saw no evidence of any further problems.

I haven't had an unexpected Roamio reboot (that I can recall) since about the first month it came out. I hope this isn't the start of something....

As for the Tivo button waking to Tivo Central, I'm glad this behavior has returned as to me it's what is expected. The LiveTV button should wake to Live TV.


----------



## L David Matheny

bmgoodman said:


> I had a reboot yesterday after the Tivo froze while playing a previously recorded program. After the reboot, I was able to pick up from where it had frozen, but I saw no evidence of any further problems.
> 
> I haven't had an unexpected Roamio reboot (that I can recall) since about the first month it came out. I hope this isn't the start of something....


A reboot is the kind of drastic action a programmer might code to bail out of some situation that should be impossible, like maybe all working memory being in use due to a "memory leak" caused by a bug in the memory management code. I suspect poor memory management is a common reason for equipment to require periodic reboots. TiVo software doesn't usually have that problem, but such bugs could be introduced by new code, especially code for streaming services.


----------



## bmgoodman

L David Matheny said:


> A reboot is the kind of drastic action a programmer might code to bail out of some situation that should be impossible, like maybe all working memory being in use due to a "memory leak" caused by a bug in the memory management code. I suspect poor memory management is a common reason for equipment to require periodic reboots. TiVo software doesn't usually have that problem, but such bugs could be introduced by new code, especially code for streaming services.


Good point about reboots being caused by code for streaming services. I should mention that I'm not counting the very occasional reboots that I've had when watching something on Netflix on the Roamio. Not that those should happen, either, but somehow I'm more "forgiving" of those as compared to reboots seemingly caused by just playing back a recorded program.

Thanks


----------



## mrizzo80

I deleted a 1P (via My Shows "Clear" remote button on a folder) that had recordings in it. One of the options it showed me was something similar to "Delete Recordings and Convert to Streaming". Is that new in 20.5.2 or has that capability been there since 1P rolled out in January?


----------



## The Merg

mrizzo80 said:


> I deleted a 1P (via My Shows "Clear" remote button on a folder) that had recordings in it. One of the options it showed me was something similar to "Delete Recordings and Convert to Streaming". Is that new in 20.5.2 or has that capability been there since 1P rolled out in January?


That has been there. When you attempt to delete the folder and you have the 1P set to record from the TV and via streaming, you will get that option. If you have it set for Recordings Only, you will not get that prompt.

- Merg

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## tootal2

No reboots or blank screens since the update 

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


----------



## morac

L David Matheny said:


> A reboot is the kind of drastic action a programmer might code to bail out of some situation that should be impossible, like maybe all working memory being in use due to a "memory leak" caused by a bug in the memory management code. I suspect poor memory management is a common reason for equipment to require periodic reboots. TiVo software doesn't usually have that problem, but such bugs could be introduced by new code, especially code for streaming services.


The TiVo software will force a reboot if it gets into a bad state such as the box locking up or the like, presumably to recover "gracefully" rather than have to have the user pull the plug in order for recordings to occur. This is preferable to how it used to behave where you could come home from a vacation and find the box hadn't recorded anything as it locked up the day you left. Fortunately getting into said state is a very unusual situation. It's one I haven't seen for a long time.


----------



## Bytez

tim1724 said:


> No, it was broken in 20.4.6 and 20.4.7. Both Live TV and the TiVo button would go to live TV if the TiVo was in standby.
> 
> I'm very glad that the old (logical and flexible) behavior has been restored.


Strange, that doesn't happen on 20.4.7 here.


----------



## JWhites

wmcbrine said:


> So, not the standalone Stream? Also, not to TiVo Online?


I noticed my stand alone stream updated to 20.4.7.


----------



## mmf01

Is anyone else still waiting for their update on a Roamio? Put in both my Premiere and Roamio multiple times when the update page went up a couple months back. Added added again a day after this announcement. Premiere has received update, Roamio has not. Contacted TiVo and they "added me to the list" over the weekend, but still haven't received yet on Roamio box.


----------



## ajwees41

mmf01 said:


> Is anyone else still waiting for their update on a Roamio? Put in both my Premiere and Roamio multiple times when the update page went up a couple months back. Added added again a day after this announcement. Premiere has received update, Roamio has not. Contacted TiVo and they "added me to the list" over the weekend, but still haven't received yet on Roamio box.


I added both my premieres at launch of the priority page and still waiting


----------



## DeltaOne

mmf01 said:


> Is anyone else still waiting for their update on a Roamio?


I added my Roamio and two Mini's to the early update page. The Roamio and one Mini were updated quickly. Still waiting for the update on the 2nd Mini.

I've forced a network connection and rebooted the Mini two or three times since, still no update.


----------



## cherry ghost

Added both my boxes a couple months back. One got the update the first day, the other got it yesterday.


----------



## DeltaOne

DeltaOne said:


> I've forced a network connection and rebooted the Mini two or three times since, still no update.


I think I mis-typed the Mini's number when entering it on the priority page, mistaking a B for an 8. I re-entered it on the priority page today.


----------



## CoxInPHX

CoxInPHX said:


> Yes, I have had three random reboots between my Roamio Pro and XL4, which is very unusual.
> 
> <snip>


Just a Follow-up, I have not had any more issues,
other than the "Spinning Blue Circle of Wait" which was happening before the SW update.


----------



## ThAbtO

Looks like I found a flaw in V20.5.2 on Roamio. 

I was transferring recordings to my PC using KMTTG and in mid-transfer, the program locks up. This never happened in previous updates.


----------



## waynomo

ThAbtO said:


> Looks like I found a flaw in V20.5.2 on Roamio.
> 
> I was transferring recordings to my PC using KMTTG and in mid-transfer, the program locks up. This never happened in previous updates.


How many different recordings have you tried transferring?

Also, if you tried transferring the the recording multiple times does it always fail at the same spot?


----------



## ThAbtO

3 today, different shows.


----------



## waynomo

What error message do you get?

KMTTG is working fine for me on 20.5.2. I'm testing with multiple files and is working fine for me.


----------



## ThAbtO

It seems to also happen on my Series 3, so its not just the Roamio now. Checking on my drive now.


----------



## moonscape

CoxInPHX said:


> Just a Follow-up, I have not had any more issues,
> other than the "Spinning Blue Circle of Wait" which was happening before the SW update.


The blue circle seems to be more chronic now, like nearly constant, though I'm not trusting my objectivity on this to give it more weight than an impression.


----------



## CoxInPHX

moonscape said:


> The blue circle seems to be more chronic now, like nearly constant, though I'm not trusting my objectivity on this to give it more weight than an impression.


I am finding that backing out, using the Left Arrow, and pressing Select again is working for me, most of the time.


----------



## CoxInPHX

I just noticed now with SW release 20.5.2, the Android 2.0 App will no longer create a Season Pass for a Premiere or Roamio.

Since I have a Premiere that the TiVo servers do not recognize as having OnePass this really bites. It is my mother's Premiere that I manage remotely.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=528688

TiVo Online - http://online.tivo.com/ is now working with this DVR, this is great, it did not yesterday, when I tried it.


----------



## lpwcomp

CoxInPHX said:


> I just noticed now with SW release 20.5.2, the Android 2.0 App will no longer create a Season Pass for a Premiere or Roamio.
> 
> Since I have a Premiere that the TiVo servers do not recognize as having OnePass this really bites. It is my mother's Premiere that I manage remotely.
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=528688
> 
> TiVo Online - http://online.tivo.com/ is now working with this DVR, this is great, it did not yesterday, when I tried it.


Have you tried the 3.0 app again to see if it now works?


----------



## CoxInPHX

lpwcomp said:


> Have you tried the 3.0 app again to see if it now works?


Android 3.0 Still does not work, but the 2.0 App now prompts that the DVR has OnePass and to use the 3.0 App instead, which is halfway there, I guess.

EDIT: I just set-up a new tablet, exact same model as mine, and the 3.0 App works for that DVR on that tablet, So I am clearing data and uninstalling the App on the other tablet, to see if that one will work.

Success, the other tablet now works also


----------



## lpwcomp

CoxInPHX said:


> Success, the other tablet now works also


And there is much rejoicing throughout the land.


----------



## mmf01

mmf01 said:


> Is anyone else still waiting for their update on a Roamio? Put in both my Premiere and Roamio multiple times when the update page went up a couple months back. Added added again a day after this announcement. Premiere has received update, Roamio has not. Contacted TiVo and they "added me to the list" over the weekend, but still haven't received yet on Roamio box.


"PENDING RESTART" on my Roamio. Finally! I'm guessing TiVo is now staggering early release roll outs like other products, like Android. Usually done just in case something goes awry they can pull back without having impacted a ton of people. Would be nice if they at least rolled out by MAK rather than picking one box here and there on the same account/MAK.


----------



## JoeKustra

Pending restart also, and I'm not on the priority list. I guess 7/29 is going to be a busy day for MS and TiVo.


----------



## JoeKustra

Ok, I know I just got the update. But how much time was spent to change the To Do List from dates to having "Today" and "Tomorrow"? Really TiVo?


----------



## ej42137

JoeKustra said:


> Ok, I know I just got the update. But how much time was spent to change the To Do List from dates to having "Today" and "Tomorrow"? Really TiVo?


Since it's the kind of thing I expect to see on a well-designed, user-friendly interface IMO it was time well spent. Is this really the most important issue you want to complain about?


----------



## JoeKustra

ej42137 said:


> Since it's the kind of thing I expect to see on a well-designed, user-friendly interface IMO it was time well spent. Is this really the most important issue you want to complain about?


No. And stay off my lawn.  BTW, the Mini got its update this morning and no more errors.


----------



## L David Matheny

JoeKustra said:


> No. And stay off my lawn.  BTW, the Mini got its update this morning and no more errors.


My 4-tuner Roamio (basic, used OTA) got the 20.5.2 update about 2am and rebooted. My 2-tuner Premiere got it about 8am and was pending restart, so I rebooted it. My Mini (V1) is currently unplugged, so I guess I'd better reconnect it and let it update. None of the units were on any priority list.

The 4-tuner Roamio still doesn't tally any corrected errors, and one local station whose transmitter is currently down is tallying crazy numbers of uncorrected errors which are meaningless because it doesn't even have signal lock. I wish somebody at TiVo would look at that piece of the software. And stay off my lawn, too.


----------



## brianle8

As long as we're staying off of each others lawns, I would sure like a release someday that would mean I never again looked at a streaming episode in my 1P results with the associated text "NOT CURRENTLY AVAILABLE". I see this a lot. On my lawn, of course.


----------



## JoeKustra

brianle8 said:


> As long as we're staying off of each others lawns, I would sure like a release someday that would mean I never again looked at a streaming episode in my 1P results with the associated text "NOT CURRENTLY AVAILABLE". I see this a lot. On my lawn, of course.


Best way to avoid that can vary. You could always have a specific channel specified. Sometimes only have recording and not streaming sources, not having HD only, well you get the idea. The 1P, since it is now so inclusive, has a better chance to let you schedule something that is "not currently available". That used to happen when you set a 1P on a program that was new and on the last day of your guide. But then all you had to do was wait a day. Those were the old days.

My frequency of that message increased a lot when I added Prime as a content provider.


----------



## bruab

Yudoka said:


> When will the sound issue dropping after pausing or otherwise manipulating the show be fixed? Really annoying needing to pause and unpause or turn the TV on and off to fix the issue.


Yes, I'm really peeved at TiVo about this. It was working fine, they broke it, and there's no timetable for a fix. I've called them, posted here about it, and asked them about it on Facebook with no results.

I'm not recommending TiVo to anyone anymore.


----------



## brianle8

_



"My frequency of that message increased a lot when I added Prime as a content provider."

Click to expand...

_Bingo --- I've got a Roamio OTA with Amazon Prime. So perhaps this is an issue of how Amazon tags its content ... maybe best indeed to just ignore streaming options in 1P then, for Prime customers at least. (?)

Thanks.


----------



## JoeKustra

brianle8 said:


> Bingo --- I've got a Roamio OTA with Amazon Prime. So perhaps this is an issue of how Amazon tags its content ... maybe best indeed to just ignore streaming options in 1P then, for Prime customers at least. (?)
> 
> Thanks.


While my recording default is set to "recordings only", I have two series that appear on cable and Amazon. So I change it for just those two, causing a folder to appear in My Shows and some to still have "not available". 1P isn't perfect. [understatement of the day]


----------



## jrtroo

This is not the place to try and reach out to Margret, she is rarely here reading detailed posts. Twitter and email are the best methods.


----------



## slowbiscuit

bruab said:


> Yes, I'm really peeved at TiVo about this. It was working fine, they broke it, and there's no timetable for a fix. I've called them, posted here about it, and asked them about it on Facebook with no results.
> 
> I'm not recommending TiVo to anyone anymore.


I've never seen this audio issue with my two plasmas or two LED TVs, 3 different brands (i.e. via a Roamio and 3 Minis), nor on my Onkyo AVR when I use it for DD 5.1 playback.

Does this happen all the time when doing anything during playback? If so, that would be very bad.


----------



## bruab

slowbiscuit said:


> I've never seen this audio issue with my two plasmas or two LED TVs, 3 different brands (i.e. via a Roamio and 3 Minis), nor on my Onkyo AVR when I use it for DD 5.1 playback.
> 
> Does this happen all the time when doing anything during playback? If so, that would be very bad.


It only happens to some combinations of TVs and/or sound bars, and it was caused by the update that included the OnePass, so some of us have been living with this problem for several months now. Any interruption of signal (most commonly hitting pause) can cause a permanent loss of 5.1 sound unless the connection is re-established. The easiest way to fix it is to cycle the TV inputs, but obviously that's a huge PITA to do several times an evening.

It's very odd, because some TiVo sounds will still come through, but no TV sound. No other device in my setup has this problem, and it started with the OnePass update. Before that, everything was fine.

We pretty much curse our TiVo several times a night now. TiVo's customer rep's solution is: switch to PCM 2-channel sound. Uh...thanks.

I started a thread on it here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=530124


----------



## NorthAlabama

i experience the audio delay when resuming play after pause, and it's worse for me with 20.5.2 than 20.4.7a, i never noticed it until after 20.4.6.


----------



## bruab

NorthAlabama said:


> i experience the audio delay when resuming play after pause, and it's worse for me with 20.5.2 than 20.4.7a, i never noticed it until after 20.4.6.


My issue isn't delay. All TV sound is lost unless I cycle inputs to my TV. My wild guess it that it's some weird HDMI/HDCP handshake issue.


----------



## morac

I had a UPS die which powered off my Roamio. When I got everything working again I lost all audio over HDMI. No amount of cable pulling fixed it. Had to reboot to get it back.


----------



## slowbiscuit

bruab said:


> My issue isn't delay. All TV sound is lost unless I cycle inputs to my TV. My wild guess it that it's some weird HDMI/HDCP handshake issue.


So use HDMI to the TV and optical to the receiver, that's what I've done for years. Yes, I know it makes switching inputs a little more difficult if you want to use the AVR for more than one source.


----------



## a68oliver

morac said:


> I had a UPS die which powered off my Roamio. When I got everything working again I lost all audio over HDMI. No amount of cable pulling fixed it. Had to reboot to get it back.


I am having a similar issue. However, my Tivo is not being powered off. Sometimes when I return to watch TV and power up my AVR and TV, I have no audio. No amount of disconnecting and reconnecting the HDMI cable or cycling the TV or AVR input will cause a correct HDMI handshake.

The only solution is to reboot the Tivo. This is problematic if I am recording something at the time I need to reboot.


----------



## JoeKustra

I need to add that the audio went out on my Roamio for the first time ever. I received the update last week. My AVR indicated it had 5.1 coming out, but nothing could be heard. I took my TiVo to a non-audio screen and came out. Audio restored. Not good.


----------



## dianebrat

JoeKustra said:


> I need to add that the audio went out on my Roamio for the first time ever. I received the update last week. My AVR indicated it had 5.1 coming out, but nothing could be heard. I took my TiVo to a non-audio screen and came out. Audio restored. Not good.


IME the Roamios have had an intermittent loss of audio via HDMI for a long time, it varies between software versions so they're clearly working on it, and it was a known glitch way back that was actively tracked and squashed, but what I've noticed is that in the past year it's a lot quicker to recover from the glitch, simply a pause play or an info button then up and it goes away.


----------



## Odds Bodkins

NorthAlabama said:


> i experience the audio delay when resuming play after pause, and it's worse for me with 20.5.2 than 20.4.7a, i never noticed it until after 20.4.6.


This is still happening with me too. Also happens when starting certain programs (usually SD) where there's no sound for the first 10 seconds or so.


----------



## Jed1

Last night at 8:25 PM the video and audio stopped again while trying to watch an episode of the Sopranos on Amazon Prime.
This also happened about two weeks ago and I did send an email to Margret but never heard back from her.

I have been plagued with this issue since the Spring update of last year, at least that is when it happened for the first time. I also had both of my Premiere 4s replaced under warranty because of this issue, one in February and the other in May. 

Basically what happens is the video and audio of an MPEG stream will stop and nothing will get it started again except rebooting the box. Once you reboot you can continue watching the recording or stream from where it stopped.

I have had this happen while watching a recording on the TiVo, watching a recording streaming from another TiVo, watching a video stream from Amazon Prime (twice in the past two weeks), and while watching live TV.
With live TV the one tuner will go black but the other three continue to work but they eventually stop working. 
When it happens while watching a recording or a stream the video will just stop and you can not rewind or fast forward. If you try to back out and replay it you are just faced with a black screen with no audio. Only a reboot of the box will bring back the lost video and audio. Once you reboot the video will resume from the point where it froze up.

While in this state the TiVo menu works and the resolution output is 720p. If you are using Amazon or Vudu the resolution is 1080i and the menus work fine but you can not play any videos. The resolution of live TV is 480i even if it is tuned to a HD channel but you will have no video or audio on any tuner. Changing channels does nothing as you just end up with a black screen and the V53 message.

Checking the diagnostics, it shows that the four tuners are locked onto the channels and receiving the feeds . There is no corrected or uncorrected errors and the signal strength and SNR are in perfect operating range.
Checking the CableCard diagnostics the card is receiving OOB messages and is still functioning as it is supposed to be. If you change the channels on the 4 tuners it will show as functional in the TiVo diagnostics but when you check the Conditional Access page it now only shows one tuner. But again the CableCard is receiving OOB messages.

It is not my cable feed as I had this happen when I was receiving my feed out of the old Bears Head head end and then now out of the new Delano Hub.
The rebuild consists a rebuild of the Hazleton head end, the addition of the Delano Hub, new fiber feeds, all new Arris Gigamax Nodes, replaced coax feeds outside my house, upgraded amplifiers, new tap, and new RG11 drops so I am very certain that my cable company is not the issue. 
I have about 6 thousand dollars spent on a structured media system in my home that is about 6 years old. I am confident that my wiring and gear in my home is not an issue either. I also must add that the electrical wiring in my home was completely replaced when I installed the structured media system in my home.
The two Motorola M cards are about three years old and I own them. They were replaced for free when my system was bought by another family member.

When TiVo replaced the two Premiere 4s I did try to upgrade to a 4 tuner Roamio but they would not do it. I offered to pay the cost of the box as long as they transferred the lifetime service over from the Premiere 4s. I ended up with two refurbished Premeire 4s. 
The Premiere 4s were bought new in the summer of 2013 and I had them covered under the three year warranty.

Right now I have no idea what to do as I have given TiVo a lot of feed back on this issue. I fear that this is an issue with the Premiere units that they will never fix.


----------



## ej42137

Jed1 said:


> Last night at 8:25 PM the video and audio stopped again while trying to watch an episode of the Sopranos on Amazon Prime.
> This also happened about two weeks ago and I did send an email to Margret but never heard back from her.
> 
> I have been plagued with this issue since the Spring update of last year, at least that is when it happened for the first time. I also had both of my Premiere 4s replaced under warranty because of this issue, one in February and the other in May.
> 
> Basically what happens is the video and audio of an MPEG stream will stop and nothing will get it started again except rebooting the box. Once you reboot you can continue watching the recording or stream from where it stopped.
> 
> I have had this happen while watching a recording on the TiVo, watching a recording streaming from another TiVo, watching a video stream from Amazon Prime (twice in the past two weeks), and while watching live TV.
> With live TV the one tuner will go black but the other three continue to work but they eventually stop working.
> When it happens while watching a recording or a stream the video will just stop and you can not rewind or fast forward. If you try to back out and replay it you are just faced with a black screen with no audio. Only a reboot of the box will bring back the lost video and audio. Once you reboot the video will resume from the point where it froze up.
> 
> While in this state the TiVo menu works and the resolution output is 720p. If you are using Amazon or Vudu the resolution is 1080i and the menus work fine but you can not play any videos. The resolution of live TV is 480i even if it is tuned to a HD channel but you will have no video or audio on any tuner. Changing channels does nothing as you just end up with a black screen and the V53 message.
> 
> Checking the diagnostics, it shows that the four tuners are locked onto the channels and receiving the feeds . There is no corrected or uncorrected errors and the signal strength and SNR are in perfect operating range.
> Checking the CableCard diagnostics the card is receiving OOB messages and is still functioning as it is supposed to be. If you change the channels on the 4 tuners it will show as functional in the TiVo diagnostics but when you check the Conditional Access page it now only shows one tuner. But again the CableCard is receiving OOB messages.
> 
> It is not my cable feed as I had this happen when I was receiving my feed out of the old Bears Head head end and then now out of the new Delano Hub.
> The rebuild consists a rebuild of the Hazleton head end, the addition of the Delano Hub, new fiber feeds, all new Arris Gigamax Nodes, replaced coax feeds outside my house, upgraded amplifiers, new tap, and new RG11 drops so I am very certain that my cable company is not the issue.
> I have about 6 thousand dollars spent on a structured media system in my home that is about 6 years old. I am confident that my wiring and gear in my home is not an issue either. I also must add that the electrical wiring in my home was completely replaced when I installed the structured media system in my home.
> The two Motorola M cards are about three years old and I own them. They were replaced for free when my system was bought by another family member.
> 
> When TiVo replaced the two Premiere 4s I did try to upgrade to a 4 tuner Roamio but they would not do it. I offered to pay the cost of the box as long as they transferred the lifetime service over from the Premiere 4s. I ended up with two refurbished Premeire 4s.
> The Premiere 4s were bought new in the summer of 2013 and I had them covered under the three year warranty.
> 
> Right now I have no idea what to do as I have given TiVo a lot of feed back on this issue. I fear that this is an issue with the Premiere units that they will never fix.


Your post seems to imply this is an issue every Premiere is facing. I haven't seen it on my Premiere nor on either of the two Roamios I have.

TiVoSupport_Sarah might be a better person to send a message to rather than adding it to this thread where it will probably be overlooked.


----------



## Jed1

ej42137 said:


> Your post seems to imply this is an issue every Premiere is facing. I haven't seen it on my Premiere nor on either of the two Roamios I have.
> 
> TiVoSupport_Sarah might be a better person to send a message to rather than adding it to this thread where it will probably be overlooked.


Well I spoke with her in May about the same problem but at that time somebody else at TiVo decided to replace my unit under the extended warranty. The replacement Premiere 4 I received is the one that is doing the same thing.
My other Premiere 4 was also replaced under the extended warranty back in the end of February for the same issue, which was done with Margret's help. This unit is in my bedroom but I suspect if I started using it my heavily I can get this one to have the issue.

Besides another person who owns a Roamio has reported the same thing in this thread.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10571615#post10571615
Figuring that Margret has started this thread we should be able to assume that she monitors this thread also. Besides I have also emailed Margret when this happened back on July 15th. I have not heard back from her. Before I posted in this thread I also emailed a complaint to TiVo.

Like I said in my post I have had this happen on both of my original Premiere 4s and now it is happening on my replacement Premiere 4s.


----------



## dianebrat

Jed1 said:


> Well I spoke with her in May about the same problem but at that time somebody else at TiVo decided to replace my unit under the extended warranty. The replacement Premiere 4 I received is the one that is doing the same thing.
> My other Premiere 4 was also replaced under the extended warranty back in the end of February for the same issue, which was done with Margret's help. This unit is in my bedroom but I suspect if I started using it my heavily I can get this one to have the issue.
> 
> Besides another person who owns a Roamio has reported the same thing in this thread.
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10571615#post10571615
> Figuring that Margret has started this thread we should be able to assume that she monitors this thread also. Besides I have also emailed Margret when this happened back on July 15th. *I have not heard back from her. Before I posted in this thread I also emailed a complaint to TiVo. *
> 
> Like I said in my post I have had this happen on both of my original Premiere 4s and now it is happening on my replacement Premiere 4s.


The point is that the release notes thread is not the proper place for you to use as your direct hotline to TivoMargret for your Tivo issues.

The fact that you're having issues and another person has voiced the same still doesn't make it ok to hijack the Release notes thread as your own personal troubleshooting/resolution thread.

It's not cool, totally not cool.


----------



## Jed1

Just an update on the black screen issue. I finally got a reply from TiVo via email but the CSR did not understand the issue and claimed I needed to reboot my network. She stated if this did not work then I must call TiVo support to discuss the issue.
I really hate talking to them on the phone as I can not have record of the conversation.

I ended up on the phone for almost three hours. It took me about twenty minutes to finally get the CSR to understand that this is not a internet issue or a HDMI cable issue. 
He then started to put me on hold to keep conferring with his supervisor. They then started to blame my cable company for this and I asked them how they determined this so I was put on hold again. He then came back and asked me what the power and SNR levels were. As he was putting me back on hold I asked him twice if that is all the data he wanted.
I suspected that they were going to give me the run around they do with the Roamios and tell me my levels are to high. Of course that is what he told me when he came back. I asked him what I should and he told me to have my cable company come and fix the problem. I then proceeded to tell him that if they determine that the issue is not theirs and if this happens again, if TiVo will refund me the cost of the service charge. Of course he said no.

At this point I then asked him why he did not ask me what frequency the each tuner was tuned to as it is possible that all four tuners could be tuned to the same RF channel. He did not understand what I meant so I told him that if I was tuned to four different Music Choice channels that all 50 MC channels reside on the same RF channel so they will all show the same power and SNR level. 
I also then told him that it is virtually impossible to have the signal levels deteriorate on the entire cable TV spectrum because this would result in everybody on my node losing service. I also told him I had a Pace RNG 200 in my home for a test box and that this unit had no signal issues at all.
I then proceeded to tell him that I have an education in this field.

He put me on hold and then when he came back he tried to blame my wiring in my home which I told him that all the wiring (low and high voltage) in my home is brand new. Besides that if that is the case why does this still not affect the RNG 200 or my other TiVo.
He then proceeded to tell me that my TiVo have connected to the service to many times in the past two days. I told him I have no power to when the TiVo connects to the service and how would this be related to the black screen issue.

At that point he asked me what we should do and I asked him to send me a Roamio that I can test to see if I have the same issue with a different platform. He put me on hold and then when he came back he said that I can purchase the Roamio and use it for 30 days and then send it back. I then said to him if the Roamio does not get the black screen in 30 days would they replace my two Premieres with two Roamios. He said no as TiVo can not transfer lifetime service from one platform to another. He then stated that TiVo will replace both of my Premieres and transfer the lifetime service to two other Premieres. They would keep doing this until I finally get two units that do not have the black screen issue. 
Of course I asked him what if the black screen issue never goes away will TiVo just keep sending me replacement Premieres and he did not say anything at all.
He said that he will note this on my record and if I decided to go forward with this I can call at any time and start replacing these Premieres with other Premieres until hopefully I get two units that no longer do this.

One important thing is that he told me that there is nobody complaining about this issue and that is why they think it is some type of environmental issue on my end. I did tell him that there is some Premiere and Roamio owners complaining on TCF. His reply is that TCF is not an official TiVo forum and until these owners call TiVo they will not do anything about any issue.
I just checked and the last time Margret logged on to the forum was on July 20th. So if any member does have an issue it is best if you call TiVo about it because posting here will result in nothing happening at all.

I am really regretting buying TiVos now, especially with lifetime service. I ended up buying these two units new for about $650 a piece a few weeks before the Roamio came out. If this problem is a hardware issue I am basically stuck with them. If I decide to stay with TiVo I will have absorb the purchase of two new units and hope they do not have any issues or just give up and rent the Arris whole home system from my cable company and not worry about hardware issues anymore.


----------



## edwinyuen

a68oliver said:


> I am having a similar issue. However, my Tivo is not being powered off. Sometimes when I return to watch TV and power up my AVR and TV, I have no audio. No amount of disconnecting and reconnecting the HDMI cable or cycling the TV or AVR input will cause a correct HDMI handshake.
> 
> The only solution is to reboot the Tivo. This is problematic if I am recording something at the time I need to reboot.


I'm having the same issue here. At first, I blamed my XBOX One, which had HDMI handshaking issues but almost every other day, we turn on the TV and get no sound, even though the AVR shows a signal. No matter of switching audio or cable unplug fix it. I even pulled the AVR out of the loop, went TiVo right into TV and could get sound back. The only way is to force some HDMI handshake, which I've done by forcing all TV resolution modes and hoping the channel changes from HD to SD or vice versa fixes the issue.

I've had the same set up for 2+ years and this only happened in the past 30-45 days. Thus, I do think it's somehow related to some release and hope a fix comes alone.


----------



## a68oliver

I think I found a quick fix to the no sound but good video problem. Well, it is not a fix, but a work around. Instead of rebooting and losing part of a recording in progress, I can put the Tivo in standby mode. Then re-wake it. This shuts off the video and audio output but continues to record anything in progress. When it wakes back up, it forces a handshake and comes back to life.


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## Mustanger

My Roamio rebooted last night around 6:45 PM EST and updated, I now have a version 20.5.2a, anyone else get this? I was surprised about the time, it usually updates over night when I'm not watching TV.


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## Paul Coco

I also received it around 2:30 yesterday afternoon and also surprised that it was not overnight.


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## JoeKustra

A new thread needs to be started.


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## astrohip

JoeKustra said:


> A new thread needs to be started.


And here it is...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=531966


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## tootal2

slowbiscuit said:


> So use HDMI to the TV and optical to the receiver, that's what I've done for years. Yes, I know it makes switching inputs a little more difficult if you want to use the AVR for more than one source.


Don't use optical out. Use hdmi. Optical out doesn't have the band width that hdmi has so hdmi will sound better

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


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## lessd

*Are the Minis going to get this upgrade *?? all my Roamios have gotten the upgrade but non of my Minis have been upgraded.


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## slowbiscuit

tootal2 said:


> Don't use optical out. Use hdmi. Optical out doesn't have the band width that hdmi has so hdmi will sound better


Completely false for DD 5.1 that Tivo passes through. The digital stream is the same on both.


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## tootal2

slowbiscuit said:


> Completely false for DD 5.1 that Tivo passes through. The digital stream is the same on both.


I think dd 5.1 is the the best optical can do. So I cant watch Blu-rays on it. You can't do dts on optical. Why use optical when you have hdmi?

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


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## lpwcomp

tootal2 said:


> I think dd 5.1 is the the best optical can do. So I cant watch Blu-rays on it. You can't do dts on optical. Why use optical when you have hdmi?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


Optical can do DTS. It can't do Dolby True HD or DTS HD.


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## chiguy50

lpwcomp said:


> Optical can do DTS. It can't do Dolby True HD or DTS HD.


This is correct. Toslink (digital optical) cannot transmit lossless Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA, nor obviously their immersive audio brethren, Dolby Atmos or DTS:X. Only lossy codecs.


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## MyM3

Does anyone know where Suggestions went? It used to be Find TV > Browse TV > TV > Suggestions. I like to periodically review what Tivo has in store for me!


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## tootal2

I still got the black screen with the new update. The preview window went blank so I played another show from my shows. And the full screen went blank. I thought tivo was going to fix this? 

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


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## jrtroo

There may be multiple causes for that to happen.


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## slowbiscuit

tootal2 said:


> I think dd 5.1 is the the best optical can do. So I cant watch Blu-rays on it. You can't do dts on optical. Why use optical when you have hdmi?


Because your Blu-Rays have nothing to do with using optical on Tivo, which was the entire point that whooshed by you?

Optical and HDMI audio on Tivo can be used interchangeably, point being here that the folks that have had issues with HDMI through a receiver can use optical instead.


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## kokishin

chiguy50 said:


> This is correct. Toslink (digital optical) cannot transmit lossless Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA, nor obviously their immersive audio brethren, Dolby Atmos or DTS:X. Only lossy codecs.


EDIT: 
Jeff, I was incorrect  about Dolby Digital Plus (DD+) being supported by TOSlink. There is a wikipedia article on TOSlink that claims TOSlink can support DD+ which is wrong. DD+ bitstream is supported by HDMI 1.3 and higher. FWIW, I am correct that Dolby Atmos can be encoded into Dolby Digital Plus (a lossy codec) as well as Dolby TrueHD (a lossless codec). My apologies. Just trying to clean up my little mess.

Update: But, but but, ..., it seems ROKU 4 is providing DD+ over TOSlink: 
Post #746


----------



## 702

Does this update let you have two OnePasses for a single show? (I don't know what version I'm on as I'm at work)


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## lpwcomp

702 said:


> Does this update let you have two OnePasses for a single show? (I don't know what version I'm on as I'm at work)


Given the amount of time since it was released, it's extremely unlikely your Roamio is running anything other than 20.5.2a.


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## chiguy50

kokishin said:


> Dolby Atmos can be encoded into Dolby Digital Plus which TOSlink supports.


But Dolby Atmos is encoded over the lossless bed Dolby TrueHD 7.1, for which TOSLINK does not have the bandwidth. Can you confirm that an Atmos stream in DD+ over TOSLINK results in native Atmos playback? I don't understand how that could be the case.


----------



## morac

I'm still seeing the long standing problem where One Passes that are padded by a minute, don't actually record that extra minute. It seems to happen more often if there are two recordings back to back, but that isn't a requirement.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

702 said:


> Does this update let you have two OnePasses for a single show? (I don't know what version I'm on as I'm at work)


No it does not. And improve pretty sure that TiVo indicated changing this is low on their priority.


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## ej42137

702 said:


> Does this update let you have two OnePasses for a single show? (I don't know what version I'm on as I'm at work)


No.


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## Phantom Gremlin

morac said:


> I'm still seeing the long standing problem where One Passes that are padded by a minute, don't actually record that extra minute. It seems to happen more often if there are two recordings back to back, but that isn't a requirement.


I constantly had this problem a few years ago when I wanted to record two CNBC shows back to back. It was very annoying.

What fixed it for me was end padding the first show by 1 minute, and also start padding the second show by 1 minute. Then, voila, both shows always had padding. I never saw the problem again. I don't think I ever saw the problem without back to back shows, but I didn't pay careful attention to that.

Fixing long standing bugs isn't very high on TiVo's bucket list.


----------



## Lurker1

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Fixing long standing bugs isn't very high on TiVo's bucket list.


They don't seem to care about fixing anything unless it makes a good sound bite to sell more TiVos. They constantly add dubious features and break or remove useful features, while frustrating and annoying bugs remain for years.


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## kokishin

chiguy50 said:


> But Dolby Atmos is encoded over the lossless bed Dolby TrueHD 7.1, for which TOSLINK does not have the bandwidth. Can you confirm that an Atmos stream in DD+ over TOSLINK results in native Atmos playback? I don't understand how that could be the case.


Among other references to Dolby Digital Plus support for Atmos, this document Dolby Atmos for the Home Theater states on page 16 & 17 - _Creating Dolby Atmos soundtracks:

The first Dolby Atmos content for home theaters will be delivered via Blu-ray Disc and streaming video or over-the-top (OTT) services. For Blu-ray, studios will employ lossless Dolby TrueHD for the primary soundtrack and Dolby Digital Plus for secondary languages. *In the future, Dolby Atmos content will be delivered via video on demand (VOD), broadcast (terrestrial and digital), and cable services that use multichannel Dolby Digital Plus in their core architecture.* Production houses creating Dolby Atmos content for home theaters will use a tool called Dolby Media Producer, along with its suite of professional encoding, decoding, and media related tools. Before using Dolby Media Producer, though, production houses have the option to perform several preliminary steps, including a near-field remix and remastering of the cinematic master file. In this stage of the process, the audio mixer may make small adjustments to the mix to ensure that it sounds as they intended in Dolby Atmos enabled home theaters. *Dolby Digital Plus elementary bitstreams from Dolby Media Producer may be used for streaming media and broadcast delivery. Dolby TrueHD bitstreams are used to create Bluray Disc versions.*_


----------



## chiguy50

kokishin said:


> Among other references to Dolby Digital Plus support for Atmos, this document Dolby Atmos for the Home Theater states on page 16 & 17 - _Creating Dolby Atmos soundtracks:
> 
> The first Dolby Atmos content for home theaters will be delivered via Blu-ray Disc and streaming video or over-the-top (OTT) services. For Blu-ray, studios will employ lossless Dolby TrueHD for the primary soundtrack and Dolby Digital Plus for secondary languages. *In the future, Dolby Atmos content will be delivered via video on demand (VOD), broadcast (terrestrial and digital), and cable services that use multichannel Dolby Digital Plus in their core architecture.* Production houses creating Dolby Atmos content for home theaters will use a tool called Dolby Media Producer, along with its suite of professional encoding, decoding, and media related tools. Before using Dolby Media Producer, though, production houses have the option to perform several preliminary steps, including a near-field remix and remastering of the cinematic master file. In this stage of the process, the audio mixer may make small adjustments to the mix to ensure that it sounds as they intended in Dolby Atmos enabled home theaters. *Dolby Digital Plus elementary bitstreams from Dolby Media Producer may be used for streaming media and broadcast delivery. Dolby TrueHD bitstreams are used to create Bluray Disc versions.*_


Thanks, kokishin. That explains how Dolby Atmos can be delivered over DD+, which I myself have used when viewing the Atmos demo clips on Vudu. But I don't see any mention of how or why it could be conveyed over Toslink, which AFAIUI, doesn't have sufficient bandwidth for lossless multi-channel audio streams.

Have you seen anything to the contrary? Or have you successfully tried to play back a native Atmos stream over Toslink? I still believe you need an HDMI connection for this purpose when streaming from an external device.


----------



## kokishin

chiguy50 said:


> Thanks, kokishin. That explains how Dolby Atmos can be delivered over DD+, which I myself have used when viewing the Atmos demo clips on Vudu. But I don't see any mention of how or why it could be conveyed over Toslink, which AFAIUI, doesn't have sufficient bandwidth for lossless multi-channel audio streams.
> 
> Have you seen anything to the contrary? Or have you successfully tried to play back a native Atmos stream over Toslink? I still believe you need an HDMI connection for this purpose when streaming from an external device.


EDIT: 
Jeff, I was incorrect  about Dolby Digital Plus (DD+) being supported by TOSlink. There is a wikipedia article on TOSlink that claims TOSlink can support DD+ which is wrong. DD+ bitstream is supported by HDMI 1.3 and higher. FWIW, I am correct that Dolby Atmos can be encoded into Dolby Digital Plus (a lossy codec) as well as Dolby TrueHD (a lossless codec). My apologies. Just trying to clean up my little mess.

Update: But, but but, ..., it seems ROKU 4 is providing DD+ over TOSlink: 
Post #746


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