# Consumers Can Now Manage TiVo DVR Recordings from HP MediaSmart Servers



## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/co...smart-servers-2010-03-10?reflink=MW_news_stmp


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## AandFDakota2001 (Sep 6, 2008)

Awesome, I've been looking at a Mediasmart Server for my house for a while now, but one of the hesitations was with TiVo and the WHS Publisher for TiVo not working with S3/TiVo HDs. Does anyone have any feedback on how well this is not integrated or could someone post their review of it once they've had a chance to play around with it?

Justin


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Isn't that just Tivo Desktop? What's the big deal?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

AbMagFab said:


> Isn't that just Tivo Desktop? What's the big deal?


it's not really any fancy set of features- but the HP windows home serves are tivo-like set it and forget it appliances (that also happen to be on 24/7 and have a hot swappable expandable storage pool of potentially multiple gigs).

You can easily install these "plug in" sort of things. But if it's not a plug in. Then you have to basically break in to the WHS and install tivo desktop or pytivo behind the scenes. It's not rocket science but not something you would want to have to explain to your parents. With the HP plug in even our parents should be able to hook it up.


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## Lenonn (May 31, 2004)

Interesting. I was wondering if they were going to come out with a solution for this. The only problem is it doesn't work for the first gen Mediasmarts, which is sadly what I have.


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## jkovach (Feb 17, 2000)

Can copy-protected shows be moved onto the Mediasmart server? If not, it's worthless for many of us with cable.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

MichaelK said:


> it's not really any fancy set of features- but the HP windows home serves are tivo-like set it and forget it appliances (that also happen to be on 24/7 and have a hot swappable expandable storage pool of potentially multiple gigs).
> 
> You can easily install these "plug in" sort of things. But if it's not a plug in. Then you have to basically break in to the WHS and install tivo desktop or pytivo behind the scenes. It's not rocket science but not something you would want to have to explain to your parents. With the HP plug in even our parents should be able to hook it up.


So you're saying "yes, this is Tivo Desktop, but now it's a plug-in"?

For most people with WHS, I would think installing Tivo Desktop, or even better, pyTivo, would make a lot more sense?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

jkovach said:


> Can copy-protected shows be moved onto the Mediasmart server? If not, it's worthless for many of us with cable.


doubt it- since tivo has to play by cablelabs rules and I dont think tivo's encyption is stong enough to permit moving flagged content yet.

Also it looks like it's just a special version of tivo desktop that HP was allowed to make into a plug in. One review I saw said it's "only pull" implying that you can't set up automatic transfers to get pulled from the tivo's to the HP. So I'm not even sure all the current tivo desktop features are incorporated never mind new ones.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

AbMagFab said:


> So you're saying "yes, this is Tivo Desktop, but now it's a plug-in"?
> 
> For most people with WHS, I would think installing Tivo Desktop, or even better, pyTivo, would make a lot more sense?


Why does tivo even sell tivo desktop with pytivo and the other free and more feature rich tools out there? Because for some people the other things are just too tough to install.

I have pytivo installed on mine. Yes. And no I wouldn't bother with the new plug in ( if it happened to work on my first gen HP box) BUT you have to basically break into the HP mediasmart server to get access to the admin account with a normal desktop (which is NOT at all exposed to the user without fiddling). Then from that remote desktop you can install anything you want.

People might buy a WHS for 2 reasons- maybe they want an appliance that is set it and forget it simple or maybe people that thing the hardware and software is a great deal and want to fiddle with it. The former people aren't going to 'break into' the box to install anything. (I'm sure there are other reasons- just tyring to explain why this FREE plugin from HP has value to some people)

There's also already a plug in that is similar to pytivo that will convert pretty most of anything video to play on the tivo.

So between that one to send content, and this new one to receive content on the server the set it and forget it folks will be all set.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

MichaelK said:


> Why does tivo even sell tivo desktop with pytivo and the other free and more feature rich tools out there? Because for some people the other things are just too tough to install.
> 
> I have pytivo installed on mine. Yes. And no I wouldn't bother with the new plug in ( if it happened to work on my first gen HP box) BUT you have to basically break into the HP mediasmart server to get access to the admin account with a normal desktop (which is NOT at all exposed to the user without fiddling). Then from that remote desktop you can install anything you want.
> 
> ...


I get it, I'm just saying that I don't think I've seen anyone with WHS who isn't a techie. I know what the theoretical target market might be for WHS, but in reality, "mom and pop" don't seem to be getting WHS, as they don't see the need or want to spend the money.

And anyone who is willing to spend the money, hires a techie to set up some sort of NAS, which ends up being mostly set-it-and-forget-it, and often cheaper and more functional (for the important stuff).

WHS is sort of a waste, filling a market that doesn't exist, IMO.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

AbMagFab said:


> I get it, I'm just saying that I don't think I've seen anyone with WHS who isn't a techie. I know what the theoretical target market might be for WHS, but in reality, "mom and pop" don't seem to be getting WHS, as they don't see the need or want to spend the money.
> 
> And anyone who is willing to spend the money, hires a techie to set up some sort of NAS, which ends up being mostly set-it-and-forget-it, and often cheaper and more functional (for the important stuff).
> 
> WHS is sort of a waste, filling a market that doesn't exist, IMO.


to each his own.

I think it's a really cost effective platform looking for it's place.

Like you say- it seems to be made for set and forget mom and pop but in reality it's mostly techheads who buy it. And they would prefer direct access to fiddle instead of the front end always staring you in the face.

But I guess then it's basically just a server and they need to charge a hec of a lot more for it then.

Now that you bring it up, it really is a funny little product- take something more expensive and slap a different "easier" front end on it, toss in a couple limits on the number of users and pc's, and then sell it for a bunch less.


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## dbtom (Feb 14, 2002)

AbMagFab said:


> I get it, I'm just saying that I don't think I've seen anyone with WHS who isn't a techie. I know what the theoretical target market might be for WHS, but in reality, "mom and pop" don't seem to be getting WHS, as they don't see the need or want to spend the money.
> 
> And anyone who is willing to spend the money, hires a techie to set up some sort of NAS, which ends up being mostly set-it-and-forget-it, and often cheaper and more functional (for the important stuff).
> 
> WHS is sort of a waste, filling a market that doesn't exist, IMO.


I am definitely a techie, so maybe it is too niche of a product. However, I would definitely recommend it over a NAS to novice users. First, the price differential between a NAS and WHS is generally not too much. Most importantly, the backup software is awesome and much better than what you could piece together with some NAS combination. I have not found a backup solution that compares. I even bought a WHS to use in my office. Everything else you get (including this Tivo software) is a nice bonus.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

dbtom said:


> I am definitely a techie, so maybe it is too niche of a product. However, I would definitely recommend it over a NAS to novice users. First, the price differential between a NAS and WHS is generally not too much. Most importantly, the backup software is awesome and much better than what you could piece together with some NAS combination. I have not found a backup solution that compares. I even bought a WHS to use in my office. Everything else you get (including this Tivo software) is a nice bonus.


Except that a NAS sort of obviates the need to backup each PC. All your variable/important data moves to the NAS, so the client PCs become generic. There's no need to backup a generic PC anymore.

And mom & pop aren't going to be able to restore a PC anyway, since whatever caused the failure is likely beyond their expertise.

So - the backups of clients doesn't matter, and the restore is impractical.

Plus, Windows Server 2003 (redux) is less stable than a low- to mid-range NAS, and the costs are about the same.

And NAS's are just way more flexible for things that matter. The QNAPs are my favorite right now, with a 2-bay one going for like $500. They support Apple File Sharing, rsync, Amazon S3 on-line backup/restore, almost any server you need (apache, Squeezebox, pyTivo, dynamic DNS, and on and on). More complicated to set up, but afterwards are very "set and forget" appliances.

I think NAS devices will make WHS obsolete, especially if they can simplify the setup just a little bit more.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

AbMagFab said:


> ...
> And NAS's are just way more flexible for things that matter. The QNAPs are my favorite right now, with a 2-bay one going for like $500. They support Apple File Sharing, rsync, Amazon S3 on-line backup/restore, almost any server you need (apache, Squeezebox, pyTivo, dynamic DNS, and on and on). More complicated to set up, but afterwards are very "set and forget" appliances.
> 
> I think NAS devices will make WHS obsolete, especially if they can simplify the setup just a little bit more.


you can do any of that on a WHS. Some is built in, some have the easy as pie, plug ins, the rest you just break into the admin account and you are done. Some ways easier, some ways harder.

The HP's comes with an itunes aggragator out of the box, there's an amazon online backup restore plugin (and others)- or you can install any windows program to do it (I happen to have idrive), it has dynamic dns and a webserver built in - out of the box with like 10 clicks it will be running a webpage for you at mysitename.homeserver.com (and there are other ddns plugins if you prefer), pytivo runs fine, and on and on and on. It's basically an NAS with simplified setup PLUS the client backup and client remote access that is easy as pie. It comes with an easy as pie storage pool that you can hot swap and do file duplication out of the box. And not sure why you think NAS gets rid of the need to backup clients- sure all your files are safe on the NAS part (as long as you back that up), but your settings sure aren't, your programs, things you can't put in NAS like your outlook files, etc. - some people have laptops that aren't always home and they dont put everything on the NAS. Etc.

And all that in a 4 bay package for less than the 500 you point to. And for HP branded things you get "server" support- a step up from their normal support programs.

Not sure how much more stable you want- mine has been running for well over a year without ever doing any stupid windows lockups- it reboots every now and again for the requisite security patches.

But the moron's at redmond dont know how to market it and call it a "server" which people dont understand. So it will probably die and be overtaken by NAS. But it doesn't need to be.

I'm something of a tech FAN - but not a programmer or anything. I had a NAS box that ran linux- and for me it was just easier to yanks it's drives and stick them in a WHS box.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

pool of potentially multiple gigs? i hope it has multiple tbs



MichaelK said:


> it's not really any fancy set of features- but the HP windows home serves are tivo-like set it and forget it appliances (that also happen to be on 24/7 and have a hot swappable expandable storage pool of potentially multiple gigs).
> 
> You can easily install these "plug in" sort of things. But if it's not a plug in. Then you have to basically break in to the WHS and install tivo desktop or pytivo behind the scenes. It's not rocket science but not something you would want to have to explain to your parents. With the HP plug in even our parents should be able to hook it up.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

tootal2 said:


> pool of potentially multiple gigs? i hope it has multiple tbs


sorry brain hurt.



tb's

you can stick 4 drives in the HP's case and then stick an ESATA extender on that can handle 4 drives. And then if you get board you can start adding slower USB 2.0 external drives- I forget how many of those it can handle but I'd guess with usb hubs it can do a bunch.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> Except that a NAS sort of obviates the need to backup each PC. All your variable/important data moves to the NAS, so the client PCs become generic. There's no need to backup a generic PC anymore.
> 
> And mom & pop aren't going to be able to restore a PC anyway, since whatever caused the failure is likely beyond their expertise.
> 
> ...


I think you are sort of missing several key elements here. Even if you put your "critical data" on a NAS you are still going to have to do a full reload on one of your clients if something happens to it. For modern machines this is a multi-hour affair as you need to load the OS and all applications, then load updates, then security software, then driver fixes, etc, etc, etc.

With WHS you get a restore disc. If the machine becomes sick then you pop the disc in, and restore from backup in a very short amount of time and with about zero tech skill from the user.

I use WHS for file storage and backup duties at my wife's dental office and it has saved my bacon on several occasions in which we needed to restore a computer that had somehow gotten into a bad state.

Additionally our home WHS does Time Machine backup duty for all of the Macs in the house. It's automated, painless and you can even do a bare metal restore.

WHS makes use of drive pooling technology that is loosely similar to ZFS. If you mark a share for duplication then it automatically keeps copies of that share on two physical hard disks. No RAID needed (and no RAID controller to fail and take your data with it). If the WHS ever pukes out you can simply pull the drives and read them on any computer that can read an NTFS volume.

This also means that it is quick, easy and painless to add or remove storage from the WHS. Simply mark a volume for removal, wait for it to copy all files off of it and you can pull it out and replace it with a larger disk. The newer ones even have an ESATA port so that you can use a JBOD SATA enclosure to bring more disks to the drive pooling. Some folks have 16TB or more storage on their WHS and are using it for tasks as wild as video surveillance or streaming of Blu-Ray movies to media extenders on their network.... all while providing seamless backup of every Mac and PC in the home.

Anyone who argues that a vanilla NAS is more useable or practical than a WHS has not spent any time working with Windows Home Server.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

On Topic Now;

I have installed the add-in to my EX495 and it's pretty nifty as it gives you an immediate view of all of the recordings on all of your TiVo boxes and you can queue up as many as you like for transfer.

The advantage of having this in the console is that my wife can launch the WHS console from her Macbook, select the recordings she wants to archive and the WHS does the rest.

This is compared to having to run a dedicated app on a machine (that you might have to leave on 24X7), having to know how to launch and manage the application, schedule transfers, etc.

So far I am liking what I am seeing. According to the review on mediasmartserver.net, they brought up scheduled transfers with HP and HP has said they will consider adding that as a feature in the future.


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

jmpage2 said:


> On Topic Now;
> 
> I have installed the add-in to my EX495 and it's pretty nifty as it gives you an immediate view of all of the recordings on all of your TiVo boxes and you can queue up as many as you like for transfer.


Does it allow you to set up automatic transfers for selected series like TiVo Desktop?


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

janry said:


> Does it allow you to set up automatic transfers for selected series like TiVo Desktop?


No, but HP have said they will look at adding that as a future feature.


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## dbtom (Feb 14, 2002)

AbMagFab said:


> Except that a NAS sort of obviates the need to backup each PC. All your variable/important data moves to the NAS, so the client PCs become generic. There's no need to backup a generic PC anymore.


Although I keep most of my media on the homeserver acting like a NAS, I still find it very helpful to have an image backup of each PC. If a PC dies, I can easily roll back to an earlier version. It's really easy. Realistically there are always some files on my PC that aren't on the WHS-- a spreadsheet I had been working on etc. I am sure there is some way to do it on a NAS, but it's so easy on WHS. I don't think a restore is impractical. It's really easy.

Your NAS choices aren't cheap. I bought a 4 bay HP WHS for $300 on sale with a 500GB drive. If you wait for a good sale you can probably spend $300 - $400 on a similar unit. WHS has been rock solid for me and all the features you highlighted are supported.

I am not a Linux expert. If you are a Linux guy a NAS might be a better solution. But it really is worth giving the WHS a shot. One of the best tech products I've bought in a while. This is a set-it-and-forget it product as well.


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## pcbrew (Mar 15, 2008)

How do you get it? Does it just show up as an option to install?

I have an older EX475 (2nd gen) - do I get?


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

pcbrew said:


> How do you get it? Does it just show up as an option to install?
> 
> I have an older EX475 (2nd gen) - do I get?


You would have to upgrade to version 3.0 (which means going to the HP support website for your EX475 and spending about $30 for the upgrade software disc).

Then you would have to install the 3.0 update, any other updates and then download (again from HP) the Tivo add-in and put that in the /software/add-ins/ folder on the EX475 and then install it.

I'm not sure whether or not this add-in will work with older Mediasmarts if they are updated to 3.0 but I don't see any particular reason it would not work.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

jmpage2 said:


> I think you are sort of missing several key elements here. Even if you put your "critical data" on a NAS you are still going to have to do a full reload on one of your clients if something happens to it. For modern machines this is a multi-hour affair as you need to load the OS and all applications, then load updates, then security software, then driver fixes, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> With WHS you get a restore disc. If the machine becomes sick then you pop the disc in, and restore from backup in a very short amount of time and with about zero tech skill from the user.
> 
> ...


Actually, anyone who argues that WHS is a viable fault-tolerant server storage solution, has never spent much time with a modern NAS.

You should have nothing on any client PC except the OS and apps. You should once-in-a-blu-moon do a full image backup/incremental image backup, to the NAS. You can then restore from the NAS as needed.

And most people seem to forget - when you need to do a full restore on a client PC, unless it's just the HD, it requires a real techie to do the *fix* and then the restore.

Otherwise, the client PCs are mostly dumb application clients.

And WHS fault tolerance is a twisted mirroring. This gets very lame very fast with any sort of significant storage. Or, you lose fault tolerance on the data. With a NAS, you get RAID 5/6 (with more than 2 drives), which is much more efficient, and gives you fault tolerance of everything.

Anyway, I've had enough experience with this whole thing to know that this is an evolution - people start with nothing, then go to WHS, thinking it's the best for what it is, and then eventually grow up to a NAS and realize what they've been missing.


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## reneg (Jun 19, 2002)

Sorry to interrupt the WHS vs NAS battle.

Installed the HP software onto my home server. It didn't find any of my 3 Tivos. I checked the event log on my home server and noticed an error from the HP software complaining about listening on UDP ports. Suspecting a port conflict, I stopped both the pyTivo & Streambaby services on my home server and recycled the HP Tivo extender service. Second time around it found one of three Tivos and I was able to transfer a file. 

So the software works somewhat though I have no idea why it only finds one of three Tivos nor why it conflicts with pyTivo or Streambaby. For me, PyTivo + Streambaby > HP Tivo extender software so I'm uninstalling the HP software. To be fair, I'm a tinkerer and the HP software is lacking for me however it might be suitable for others.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> Actually, anyone who argues that WHS is a viable fault-tolerant server storage solution, has never spent much time with a modern NAS.
> 
> You should have nothing on any client PC except the OS and apps. You should once-in-a-blu-moon do a full image backup/incremental image backup, to the NAS. You can then restore from the NAS as needed.
> 
> ...


You apparently don't understand enough to know that I've run Linux NAS boxes for over a decade, and used to have a job as an engineer supporting a RAID based box with NAS functions for huge clients all over the world.

WHS is better than NAS in almost all situations one will encounter in the home. WHS boxes have higher performance processors, run a full OS (based on Server 2003), have more RAM, are capable of running virtually any software you might like and it does not take a "techie" to recover a client machine that is hosted on WHS.

Your RAID5/RAID6 arguments are a joke. Anyone who really understands storage would know that RAID 1+0 is really the way to go. RAID5 becomes worthless if the controller goes out and your RAID set is corrupt. RAID 5 discs don't do anything for you when the array is not working. By comparison the drive extender in WHS gives you totally useable dual copies of all of your data that are not dependent on a controller card, they can be read in any PC (or Mac/Redhat box for that matter). Want to add some storage to that RAID5/RAID6 array? Oh boy, you get to back all the data up externally, then rebuild the array, and then restore the data. I'm sure non techies can handle that when compared to simply adding a drive or removing it in the WHS console.

The ONLY reason anyone would choose RAID5 or RAID6 for the home is that they are either ignorant of RAID (and thereby think it's better) or they need ultra high performance for a multitude of simultaneous client computers, something that is almost never seen in a home environment.

Maybe you should get a stop watch and time how long it takes to recover your OS, applications, updates, anti-virus, driver updates and other "non critical data" vs how long it takes to pop a WHS recovery disc in the CD tray and restore a system to a pristine image that was created weeks or months earlier.

You should seriously get off of your high and mighty "people graduate from WHS to a *real* (HE-MAN!!) NAS solution.

Maybe you can take it up with the hundreds of people who populate WHS user forums who have graduated the OTHER way into WHS after running NAS solutions for years.

Many of them being IT professionals like myself.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

reneg said:


> Sorry to interrupt the WHS vs NAS battle.
> 
> Installed the HP software onto my home server. It didn't find any of my 3 Tivos. I checked the event log on my home server and noticed an error from the HP software complaining about listening on UDP ports. Suspecting a port conflict, I stopped both the pyTivo & Streambaby services on my home server and recycled the HP Tivo extender service. Second time around it found one of three Tivos and I was able to transfer a file.
> 
> So the software works somewhat though I have no idea why it only finds one of three Tivos nor why it conflicts with pyTivo or Streambaby. For me, PyTivo + Streambaby > HP Tivo extender software so I'm uninstalling the HP software. To be fair, I'm a tinkerer and the HP software is lacking for me however it might be suitable for others.


Mine found both of my TiVos, but not until I ran the latest HP and WHS updates. After getting all of the updates for my box, then rebooting, then reinstalling the add-in, it saw both of my TiVos and I have successfully copied shows from both of them with the add-in.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

AbMagFab said:


> Except that a NAS sort of obviates the need to backup each PC. All your variable/important data moves to the NAS, so the client PCs become generic. *There's no need to backup a generic PC anymore*.
> ...





AbMagFab said:


> ...
> 
> You should have nothing on any client PC except the OS and apps. *You should once-in-a-blu-moon do a full image backup/incremental image backup*, to the NAS. You can then restore from the NAS as needed.
> ....


well which is it? The WHS's full image/incremental backup is worthless. Or your NAS that you use some other tool to do your client backups to is superior?

there's more than one way to get a job done in the world, you might be better off to have an open mind and realize that 2 rational people can find a a way to get the job done in 2 completely different manners with the same basic endpoint.

In this instance for some a WHS is a better choice. For you and others a NAS is a better choice. Neither is "right" nor "wrong" just different.

No wonder we can't solve any of the real problems our country has when people can't even act rational about a stupid box to hold their digital files on.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

reneg said:


> Sorry to interrupt the WHS vs NAS battle.
> 
> Installed the HP software onto my home server. It didn't find any of my 3 Tivos. I checked the event log on my home server and noticed an error from the HP software complaining about listening on UDP ports. Suspecting a port conflict, I stopped both the pyTivo & Streambaby services on my home server and recycled the HP Tivo extender service. Second time around it found one of three Tivos and I was able to transfer a file.
> 
> So the software works somewhat though I have no idea why it only finds one of three Tivos nor why it conflicts with pyTivo or Streambaby. For me, PyTivo + Streambaby > HP Tivo extender software so I'm uninstalling the HP software. To be fair, I'm a tinkerer and the HP software is lacking for me however it might be suitable for others.


when you use more than one 'desktop' solution, be it pytivo, tivo desktop, galleon, and now the hp plugin- you have to fiddle with the ports (on I think what is called the "beacon") as they all default to the same one and bump into each other. I believe pytivo and galleon both have places to change the port number. I dont think tivo desktop does so I'd doubt the HP thing does either. Streambaby I'm not sure at all - but assume you can change it like the other 3rd party tools since the folks who make those tools seem to really have things well under control.

sometimes it takes a bit to 'see' other boxes- I'm not sure if there's a time thing or what. But eventually I'd bet all 3 will show up if you decided to only use the hp thing or used it alongside the others (after fiddling with ports)


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

MichaelK said:


> well which is it? The WHS's full image/incremental backup is worthless. Or your NAS that you use some other tool to do your client backups to is superior?
> 
> there's more than one way to get a job done in the world, you might be better off to have an open mind and realize that 2 rational people can find a a way to get the job done in 2 completely different manners with the same basic endpoint.
> 
> ...


Nice in theory, but in reality, there are often objectively better and worse solutions.

WHS is, objectively, an overall worse solution. It's really only useful to techies, but targeted at home users. And yet home users can't do much with it, and have no idea how to actually take advantage of any of it's "features". And techies are constantly fighting with it to get access to a low enough level to actually do things with the OS. And WHS has lousy fault tolerance.

WHS is potentially great in concept, but in practice does a bunch of things, not very well.

There's really nothing about WHS, except the novelty of it, that can't be better done (using the same people resources), with many other options at comparable (not equal) cost. A modern NAS is just one of those options.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> Nice in theory, but in reality, there are often objectively better and worse solutions.
> 
> WHS is, objectively, an overall worse solution. It's really only useful to techies, but targeted at home users. And yet home users can't do much with it, and have no idea how to actually take advantage of any of it's "features". And techies are constantly fighting with it to get access to a low enough level to actually do things with the OS. And WHS has lousy fault tolerance.
> 
> ...


I would really like to know what the source of this misinformation is that you need to be a "techie" to set up and use the WHS that you continue to parrot as if it's a fact.

Maybe you should refer to the scores of positive reviews on Amazon, CNET and elsewhere from regular people who found this product easy to install. In most cases a regular person can get one of these installed on their network for file access and backups in under an hour.

You continue to speak as if you are in a position of authority on this, but appear to be anything but an authority on home storage.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

AbMagFab said:


> Nice in theory, but in reality, there are often objectively better and worse solutions.
> 
> WHS is, objectively, an overall worse solution. It's really only useful to techies, but targeted at home users. And yet home users can't do much with it, and have no idea how to actually take advantage of any of it's "features". And techies are constantly fighting with it to get access to a low enough level to actually do things with the OS. And WHS has lousy fault tolerance.
> 
> ...


sure. ;-)

2+2 = 4

2*2 = 4

By your figuring I assume clearly one is objectively more correct?

I think you need to look up the definition of objective. Opinion is not part of it. FOR YOU one is clearly better.

Haven't seen one example that you have given how one is or is not objectively better than another. Price? Power? Abilities? Customize-ability (is that a word- lolo) ? Ease of use? Fault tolerance? set it and forget it? data security? disaster recovery?

Honestly there very well may be lots of items that the NAS is better than a WHS but you have yet to point to one with any specifics rather than just a general statement.

BTW- Have you ever used one? I'm not sure why you think techies are always fighting with it to get to the OS. You install a plug in that allows you to get desktop or explorer access and then you click it. Presto chango you are logged in as the admin sitting at the desktop. it's not rocket science once you set it up.


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## reneg (Jun 19, 2002)

MichaelK said:


> when you use more than one 'desktop' solution, be it pytivo, tivo desktop, galleon, and now the hp plugin- you have to fiddle with the ports (on I think what is called the "beacon") as they all default to the same one and bump into each other. I believe pytivo and galleon both have places to change the port number. I dont think tivo desktop does so I'd doubt the HP thing does either. Streambaby I'm not sure at all - but assume you can change it like the other 3rd party tools since the folks who make those tools seem to really have things well under control.
> 
> sometimes it takes a bit to 'see' other boxes- I'm not sure if there's a time thing or what. But eventually I'd bet all 3 will show up if you decided to only use the hp thing or used it alongside the others (after fiddling with ports)


I suspect it was a zeroconf conflict for UDP 5353. If the HP software were more compelling, I might have spent some time fiddling.

I waited an hour while a 6 gig file transfered and the other two Tivos never showed.

The HP Tivo extender software is missing three things that would make it interesting for me; auto-transfers, commercial detection and trim, and decrypting the .tivo file & converting it from mpg2 to something requiring less disk space. If I have to do any of these steps on another PC, I might as well do them all on the PC like I do today and just store the final file on the home server.

While the HP software was installed, I did look at the files that were installed on my system and it was interesting to see that they use a command line program to do work all the work (aptly named tivocli.exe) with another GUI front end app.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

One argument against WHS is the nasty file corruption bug that festered for many months before Microsoft got around to fixing it.

Of course most NAS vendors aren't better in terms of "we don't care; we don't have to; we've got your money; go fuqqq off if you don't like how the product works".


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> Nice in theory, but in reality, there are often objectively better and worse solutions.
> 
> WHS is, objectively, an overall worse solution. It's really only useful to techies, but targeted at home users. And yet home users can't do much with it, and have no idea how to actually take advantage of any of it's "features". And techies are constantly fighting with it to get access to a low enough level to actually do things with the OS. And WHS has lousy fault tolerance.
> 
> ...


Now you're just a troll. In practice, WHS does a lot of great things, and it's spectacularly easy to use. I bought a HP475 the day it came out, and it took less than an hour to set up and another few hours to back up 4 computers, and that was just because it was the first time. It runs 100% unattended. All my computers run automatic daily backups, most of the time only needing a few minutes to do so. One of my computers had a spectacular hard drive and controller failure, and after that was repaired, all I had to do was plug in a CD, and WHS restored the entire computer. I have a hosted web site, a WHS feature, from which I can access anything on the server. Both my XBOX360 and PS3 can access all WHS media files and most internet media through WHS. I also have added a local USB drive for backup of WHS itself, and on-line backup is also supported. The only drawbacks I'm now facing is the HP47x series uses an slow CPU and limited RAM for use as a top end media server, but those issues are being addressed in newer models.



Phantom Gremlin said:


> One argument against WHS is the nasty file corruption bug that festered for many months before Microsoft got around to fixing it.


That was addressed from the very beginning, and at no time did I feel like the developers were giving this short shrift. Despite the publicity, that was an obscure and hard to pin down (but critical, I'm not minimizing it's importance) bug that only affected very few users. It was reported as soon as it was confirmed, and was fixed almost two years ago.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

balboa dave said:


> Now you're just a troll. In practice, WHS does a lot of great things, and it's spectacularly easy to use. I bought a HP475 the day it came out, and it took less than an hour to set up and another few hours to back up 4 computers, and that was just because it was the first time. It runs 100% unattended. All my computers run automatic daily backups, most of the time only needing a few minutes to do so. One of my computers had a spectacular hard drive and controller failure, and after that was repaired, all I had to do was plug in a CD, and WHS restored the entire computer. I have a hosted web site, a WHS feature, from which I can access anything on the server. Both my XBOX360 and PS3 can access all WHS media files and most internet media through WHS. I also have added a local USB drive for backup of WHS itself, and on-line backup is also supported. The only drawbacks I'm now facing is the HP47x series uses an slow CPU and limited RAM for use as a top end media server, but those issues are being addressed in newer models.
> 
> That was addressed from the very beginning, and at no time did I feel like the developers were giving this short shrift. Despite the publicity, that was an obscure and hard to pin down (but critical, I'm not minimizing it's importance) bug that only affected very few users. It was reported as soon as it was confirmed, and was fixed almost two years ago.


Nice, because I disagree with you I'm a troll. You must be fun to live with!

In less than 5 years, WHS will disappear. And there will be no 2008-based WHS. It's a one-shot deal, and is already mostly abandoned by MSoft. NASs have been around for much longer, and will continue to be around for much longer.

WHS is a blip that no one will remember, except those that got burned.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> Nice, because I disagree with you I'm a troll. You must be fun to live with!
> 
> In less than 5 years, WHS will disappear. And there will be no 2008-based WHS. It's a one-shot deal, and is already mostly abandoned by MSoft. NASs have been around for much longer, and will continue to be around for much longer.
> 
> WHS is a blip that no one will remember, except those that got burned.


You just don't have a clue, do you? Here's one. (Hint: It's 2008 based.)

Oh, and you're a textbook example of a troll because you have nothing to say about the subject of this thread, and are only intent on bashing WHS.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> Nice, because I disagree with you I'm a troll. You must be fun to live with!
> 
> In less than 5 years, WHS will disappear. And there will be no 2008-based WHS. It's a one-shot deal, and is already mostly abandoned by MSoft. NASs have been around for much longer, and will continue to be around for much longer.
> 
> WHS is a blip that no one will remember, except those that got burned.


I'm under NDA with Hewlett Packard, but I can assure you that you are wrong on all counts.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

AbMagFab said:


> In less than 5 years, WHS will disappear.


Even if it disappears, so what? Will your existing hardware stop working if MSFT doesn't release a new version? It isn't a marriage, just an appliance. And a lot of marriages don't last 5 years, either. 

I don't own WHS, but I think of it as similar to Apple's Time Machine, which I do use. It's a way for me to get painless backups. It's not perfect, but it's a LOT better than what I did before, which was manual backups every few months.


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## tomlavelle (Jun 29, 2007)

I bought an Infrant (now Netgear) ReadyNAS NV when it first came out. Loved it for years. Upgraded the drives twice (from 4x500GB to 4x1TB to 4x1.5TB) using the brilliant X-RAID technology that does an in-place storage upgrade and volume expansion without having to move off data and rebuild the RAID set.

I built a home-brew WHS box a year ago after hearing friends brag about it. I was skeptical of trusting storage to PC with a fat OS that gets patched every Tuesday. Then I started setting up backups on all of the machines in my house and I was hooked. I have never used a easier backup solution for my Windows PCs/laptops. It just works, beautifully. I also set up protected shares for photos and videos, gradually replacing my ReadyNAS since the data access/streaming performance of the WHS box was so much better than the ReadyNAS (to Windows clients, PS3, XBox 360, and Tivo Series3s).

My homebrew WHS box doesn't have the SATA ports/drive bays that I need and when I heard the Tivo/MediaSmart news a few days ago I pulled the trigger on an EX495. I have 2 (1TB upgraded) Series3 Tivos and I hate dealing with the buggy Tivo Desktop to archive content. I'll gift my homebrew WHS box to my brother who, like many, is pretty exposed when it comes to keeping safe backups of digital photos, family videos, home finance data, etc. WHS's backup service is reason enough to buy one, and the long list of additional features/services is gravy.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

reneg said:


> The HP Tivo extender software is missing three things that would make it interesting for me; auto-transfers, commercial detection and trim, and decrypting the .tivo file & converting it from mpg2 to something requiring less disk space. If I have to do any of these steps on another PC, I might as well do them all on the PC like I do today and just store the final file on the home server.
> 
> While the HP software was installed, I did look at the files that were installed on my system and it was interesting to see that they use a command line program to do work all the work (aptly named tivocli.exe) with another GUI front end app.


I think we will the auto-transfer functionality in a future udpate. I also hope to see support for music and photo presentations as well.

As for the Commercial detection and trim? I do not think you are going to see either product in a TIVO or HP supported product. DRM will simply not allow that type of functionality.

I want both push and pull transfer capabilities. I would also like to be able to transfer a program from Tivo A to Tivo B through this utility.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Can NAS power-up a computer in the middle of the night, kick off a back-up and shut it back down when it is done?

http://addins.home-server-blog.de/verwaltung/lightsout/#en

I love this software - I have four computers in the house and the kids leave them on all the time. I use this WHS add-in to power down any computer that is not being used after 10pm. (power down, not sleep mode)

For my home office computer I can power it up at 8am so it is ready for me to use.


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## reneg (Jun 19, 2002)

bradleys said:


> I think we will the auto-transfer functionality in a future udpate. I also hope to see support for music and photo presentations as well.
> 
> As for the Commercial detection and trim? I do not think you are going to see either product in a TIVO or HP supported product. DRM will simply not allow that type of functionality.
> 
> I want both push and pull transfer capabilities. I would also like to be able to transfer a program from Tivo A to Tivo B through this utility.


I'd like to be wrong, but I think the likelyhood of them adding push & pull between Tivos is about the same as adding commercial detection & trim. Slim to none.

While we wait, I'll happily continue to use pyTivo (which also gets me photo & music support) & Streambaby on my WHS and do my video archive processing on another PC.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

I'm no computer expert, but I was able to build a great WHS easily out of an old PC that would have otherwise been trashed. Just needed to use the restore disk for a laptop that was wiped during a RMA issue, and it could not have been easier to get it back to exactly to its pre-RMA issue glory.


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

Anyone interested in a HP EX495, Costco has just dropped their price to $549.99.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Produc...Ntt=ex495&No=0&Nty=1&Ntx=mode matchallpartial


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## dlewczyk (Feb 18, 2003)

And NewEgg has the HP EX490 for $449 with free shipping suing the coupon code in their e-mail promotion:

http://promotions.newegg.com/NEemail/latest/index-landing.aspx

- Dan


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## JimboG (May 27, 2007)

The HP MediaSmart windows home servers look pretty tasty. Then again, it looks like the second generation of WHS ("Vail") should be out pretty soon.

Does anyone have a decent guesstimate of when WHS Vail will be released? I've heard it should be 2010, but I haven't been able to find anything more specific or definite than that.

If the HP EX495 will work fine with Vail and it won't cost anything to upgrade to the new OS I might get one soon. I just think it might be smarter to wait for the next hardware and OS refresh before jumping into the WHS market.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

JimboG said:


> The HP MediaSmart windows home servers look pretty tasty. Then again, it looks like the second generation of WHS ("Vail") should be out pretty soon.
> 
> Does anyone have a decent guesstimate of when WHS Vail will be released? I've heard it should be 2010, but I haven't been able to find anything more specific or definite than that.
> 
> If the HP EX495 will work fine with Vail and it won't cost anything to upgrade to the new OS I might get one soon. I just think it might be smarter to wait for the next hardware and OS refresh before jumping into the WHS market.


I'd vote to buy a lower end on now- you can get a refurb or an older model for like 300 and the basic functionality is about the same. And then buy a vail model when it arrives if you think you need it.


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## wwu123 (May 15, 2008)

I installed this add-in on my Mediasmart, and I like it as a way of archiving or backing programs off the Tivo unit itself, ones that I don't want to view elsewhere but only later back on the Tivo unit. I've also have used pyTivo and streambaby as well and will likely also continue to use those for their intended purposes.

One glitch I've seen; the add-in can't seem to tell all of the programs that are copy-protected up front, only a small fraction. You can put them in the transfer queue, but they will fail later. After that there seems to be no way to ever remove them from the list, as the "Cancel Transfer" button is greyed out. Anyone have a solution to this?

EDIT: Found the solution. You have to hit "Retry Transfer" to reactivate them in the queue, and then you can hit "Cancel Transfer".


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

Well it ain't KMTTG, that's for sure. I got a EX495 Friday and installed this add-in. Easy to set up. I found the button to start the transfers rather finicky. I sometimes had to click on it 2 or 3 times before it seemed to accept my transfers. I left the server with several shows to transfer before going to bed and when I woke this morning, only a few had transferred and the rest were not in que to transfer. I guess it bombed and I had to restart them. We'll see what has happened when I get home tonight.

Then, the server listing of programs in the TiVo NPL only has recordings with the TiVo extension. No transferring mpeg files through it.


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## lenlombardo (Apr 5, 2010)

I am wondering if we can go the other way.. can I have movies that I have burned to my hp whs using mymovie show up and be available on my tivo like a windows media extendor or media center can ?


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

janry said:


> Then, the server listing of programs in the TiVo NPL only has recordings with the TiVo extension. No transferring mpeg files through it.


Has anyone figured away around this and still stick with this Add-in to get files back to the TiVo?

I have some mpeg files that I've even saved as Tivo files with VideoReDo, and they still do not show up in the TiVo NPL from the Server.


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## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

The aggressive HP advertising on this site caught my eye and led me to this thread and other forums. It is a scene I did not know about at all. The Costco $100 off price was irresistible so I got one mainly to become my new Tivo server. I threw another 1.5TB drive I had lying around in and was up and running in little time. The upgrade process went well but the need to upgrade the client from the server itself was a little confusing but since I had already read about that in a post or a review somewhere even that was not a real problem.

I am a little disappointed in the TiVo plugin because it has no advanced features and it does not work well with what it does do. It randomly does not list many of the shows in the NPL. There is no particular circumstance that I can see that causes it to miss shows in the listing. I'll have a season pass of some shows and it only finds 3/4 of them or random individual shows are not listed that show up in the Tivo's NPL or the NPL in TiVo Desktop. It is aggravating because that is the main reason I got the MediaSmart Server. So, I can't switch over until a more robust plugin is released, if ever. _*(Edit: Reinstalled Tivo plugin and NPL is correct now. Go figure! It still can use more work on functionality, though, but it does work as advertised.)*_

I am very happy with the MediaSmart Server, though. Everything else works great and I discovered there is a Logitech Squeezebox Server plugin available for my music collection so I will be able to retire another aging server in my stable. It is way better than any NAS I have used. I was originally uneasy about its lack of conventional RAID but once I understood how its folder based redundancy worked I was able to see this is actually a better solution for this purpose than disk based redundancy. So, I can thoroughly recommend it as long as one is not intending it exclusively for TiVo server use.


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## reneg (Jun 19, 2002)

jlib said:


> The aggressive HP advertising on this site caught my eye and led me to this thread and other forums. It is a scene I did not know about at all. The Costco $100 off price was irresistible so I got one mainly to become my new Tivo server. I threw another 1.5TB drive I had lying around in and was up ad running in little time. The upgrade process went well but the need to upgrade the client from the server itself was a little confusing but since I had already read about that in a post or a review somewhere even that was not a real problem.
> 
> I am a little disappointed in the TiVo plugin because it has no advanced features and it does not work well with what it does do. It randomly does not list many of the shows in the NPL. There is no particular circumstance that I can see that causes it to miss shows in the listing. I'll have a season pass of some shows and it only finds 3/4 of them or random individual shows are not listed that show up in the Tivo's NPL or the NPL in TiVo Desktop. It is aggravating because that is the main reason I got the MediaSmart Server. So, I can't switch over until a more robust plugin is released, if ever.
> 
> I am very happy with the MediaSmart Server, though. Everything else works great and I discovered there is a Logitech Squeezebox Server plugin available so I will be able to retire another aging server in my stable. It is way better than any NAS I have used. I was originally uneasy about its lack of conventional RAID but once I understood how its folder based redundancy worked I was able to see this is actually a better solution for this purpose than disk based redundancy. So, I can thoroughly recommend it as long as one is not intending it exclusively for TiVo server use.


I'd ditch the HP Tivo plugin and I'd recommend installing pyTivo and/or Streambaby on your MediaSmart server. I created a installation walkthrough for both pyTivo & Streambaby after I got my MediaSmart server. http://drop.io/kqwxiku. I use kmttg on PC client to pull, edit, encode shows from Tivo and then store them on the HP server.


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## RoundTuit (Dec 29, 2006)

reneg said:


> I'd ditch the HP Tivo plugin and I'd recommend installing pyTivo and/or Streambaby on your MediaSmart server. I created a installation walkthrough for both pyTivo & Streambaby after I got my MediaSmart server. http://drop.io/kqwxiku. I use kmttg on PC client to pull, edit, encode shows from Tivo and then store them on the HP server.


reneg, great write-up and thanks for making it available! I installed the TiVo plug-in but find it a little lacking in features -- that is probably a polite way of putting it. I think I will give pyTivo a try when I get some more time.


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## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

reneg said:


> I'd ditch the HP Tivo plugin and I'd recommend installing pyTivo and/or Streambaby on your MediaSmart server...


Thanks, I will look into that. One thing I have noticed, after deleting and reinstalling the Tivo plugin I now see all the NPL so I retract that complaint.

Now, my only "complaint" is I have exhausted my 1.5 TB of storage space. I guess it is time to stuff it full of drives.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

reneg said:


> I'd ditch the HP Tivo plugin and I'd recommend installing pyTivo and/or Streambaby on your MediaSmart server. I created a installation walkthrough for both pyTivo & Streambaby after I got my MediaSmart server. http://drop.io/kqwxiku. I use kmttg on PC client to pull, edit, encode shows from Tivo and then store them on the HP server.


Great write-up! I wish I had seen it before I did my own install. I absolutely agree that runing Pytivo on the WHS is the best and most robust solution. I have tried all viable options including the WHS / TIVO add-in and TIVO desktop.

I realize it takes a little work to get the system up and running, but in the end you will be very happy with the solution.


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## Austin Bike (Feb 9, 2003)

I am a HUGE fan of the WHS, especially HP's box.

I use the tivo plug in for WHS:

http://durfee.net/software/2007/07/tivo-publisher-for-whs.html

This has much lower overhead and it handles pictures/music.

It does suffer from the same problems as tivo desktop (i.e. navigate by folder, not by artist), but it does support video and can take all the movies in you \video directory and make them available to tivo.

It does not let you manage the archiving of data off of the tivo, but I just use a web browser for that (and save to the \video folder...)

I wish the HP SW did a better job on music, that is still the biggest hole in the system. I can run things on the WHS (like JR media center server) to serve up music the way I need it, but it requires you to log in, it won't run as a service consistently.


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## tluxon (Feb 28, 2002)

I just came across this thread today when getting curious about NAS functionality with our TiVoHDs. I definitely like what I see in this MediaSmart server, but I have a couple questions before springing for one.

I have a home-built PC based on an ASUS CUSL-2 motherboard (max'd out at 512 MB RAM) and an Intel P3-866 CPU and am curious if it could be converted to a WHS (I assume "Yes")? What limitations would I face (I'd add a SATA controller card)?

This "add-in" I'm reading about - is it specifically for the HP MediaSmart product(s) or would it be used on any server running WHS in order to work with the TiVo interface?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Building your own sounds like a neat idea.

I believe the add in is only for the HP customized WHS. But although it's nice to be integrated if you build your own there's no need for it. You can just install pytivo, galleon, or even the tivo desktop software. 

you dont even need to use SATA- I think you can just stuff whatever old PATA drives you have into it. If you do at SATA- you can add an external port and if you wanted you could add one of the external sata boxes that do hot swap if you are really into that.

ONE WARNING- I don't know if CPU and memory are robust enough. The older HP WHS had pretty weak amd chips in them - saves energy and heat but they really weren't supper fast- loads of hackers replaced them with pin equivalent big brothers. But a P3 might be a little too slow. More to the point the older HP boxes came with i think 1 meg. That was so undersized that many people (even those that didn't fiddle with the CPU) put in a larger memory module. So I dont know that 512 cuts it.

There's WHS boards you can check out that might give you better info- no expert here.

So if you have to get a bigger cpu (and maybe a board) and then memory, and maybe an sata card, and either a new case or an externcal encluse, then maybe it's just cheaper and easier to find a deal on an prebuilt WHS. There's some deals to be found at times. 

either way Good luck!


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

MichaelK said:


> I believe the add in is only for the HP customized WHS. But although it's nice to be integrated if you build your own there's no need for it. You can just install pytivo, galleon, or even the tivo desktop software.


Or TiVo Publisher, the WHS add-in that predates the HP offering.


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## tluxon (Feb 28, 2002)

I'm very interested in the HP MediaSmart Servers, but I discovered that Lenovo has what seems to be a pretty amazing deal on their IdeaCenter D400-3013AU Home Storage Server (1TB included, expandable to 8TB).

Lenovo has their D400-3013AU discounted from $499 to $469, with a coupon code (from Dealnews.com) dropping the price to $319 with free shipping. This seems like almost too good to pass up, but I wouldn't want to be buying myself a liability just because the price was so good.

Does anybody have a sense of how this Lenovo would stack up against the MediaSmart EX490 (under $500 at Buy.com)?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

my 2 cents is the WHS OS is what makes the thing so enjoyable. Easy to use, set it and forget it. Stable. It just works.

Does that lenovo have that?

Asus also make some WHS machines- might want to look into that?


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## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

tluxon said:


> Does anybody have a sense of how this Lenovo would stack up against the MediaSmart EX490?


The HP has more RAM (2GB vs 1GB) and a better processor (Celeron vs Atom), and most importantly, a _much_ more extensive user community.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

I just discovered this thread, which is a godsend.

I'm off to install pytivo and Streambay on my HP WHS. 

I've been offloading content from my TiVos with the built-in app, but I have the partial NP bug where I can only see part of what's on my 1.25TB S3. The UI leaves a lot to be desired. There's no refresh or easy way to see content on the server or TiVO with folders and descriptions. BTW, when you view the WHS content on the TiVo folders don't work. I'm going to try moving into folders myself.

I hacked a bit trying pytivo on my OS X 10.4 Mac Mini G4 to copy the files from TiVo to the HP WHS as a NAS but I've had some crashes and errors - some because the HP responded that it was busy doing it's own copying.

One WHS question: I'm assuming that the drives are formatted as NTFS so in case of disaster I could read them on my Windows PC. Is that correct? 

(Drift: I got just burned when my Apple Time Capsule with my iTunes library and many backups had the typical power supply failure. I guess I could dig out the drive and read it on a Mac if I must. I'll visit the genius bar first.)


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## wwu123 (May 15, 2008)

netringer said:


> I just discovered this thread, which is a godsend.
> 
> I'm off to install pytivo and Streambay on my HP WHS.
> 
> ...


I believe not only are WHS drives NTFS, but the file replication feature stores files as normal files readable if the drive were placed in another computer. Not so sure about the backups though.

I think HP Mediasmart (WHS) with the latest updates can now do Mac backups as well, in case you want to retire your Time Capsule.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

wwu123 said:


> I believe not only are WHS drives NTFS, but the file replication feature stores files as normal files readable if the drive were placed in another computer. Not so sure about the backups though.
> 
> I think HP Mediasmart (WHS) with the latest updates can now do Mac backups as well, in case you want to retire your Time Capsule.


It does but only for Mac OSX 10.5 and as per 
my usual "almost" I'm on 10.4 but I will upgrade within days.

Speaking of... Further drift...can I run the console on a real browser without Windows? I'm using XP in Paralells.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

wwu123 said:


> I believe not only are WHS drives NTFS, but the file replication feature stores files as normal files readable if the drive were placed in another computer. Not so sure about the backups though.
> ....


if you check out the whs forums they explain in detail how to dig in the raw NTFS drives. I forget exactly but i think all the files get jumbled together but their "location" index doesn't exist it they are accessed in a non WHS machine. There was some limitation but i'm not sure- I think i remembered correctly. Not a big deal with tivo content- a few hundred files with the filename being the title. But if you had a lot of pictures or something with weird filenames (pic01001a.jpg )that you sorted by folders it's a bit uglier.

Some people I've read who are really concerned about such a catastrophe actually buy identical servers and keep one as a spare so if the motherboard or something died one day they could just pop their drives into the new box and be all set.

Personally I have one of those $50 a year backup services that i duplicate all my non-tivo files to and i go 'unprotected' for my tivo content for the most part. I do worry about losing years and years of photos but i can live without most of the tv i have stored on the server if it were to die. But to each his own.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

reneg said:


> I'd ditch the HP Tivo plugin and I'd recommend installing pyTivo and/or Streambaby on your MediaSmart server. I created a installation walkthrough for both pyTivo & Streambaby after I got my MediaSmart server. http://drop.io/kqwxiku. I use kmttg on PC client to pull, edit, encode shows from Tivo and then store them on the HP server.


Thanks a bunch for the docs, reneg!

I'm wading my way through the install. You tempted fate by violating the law: NEVER quote revision numbers. 

Now, I'm hoping that it'll all work with Python 2.7, including PIL which doesn't have a 2.7 release.

I'd be willing to update those docs after I know what works.

I'm doing a lot of fighting with Windows .. the last being "You need a strong password for Remote Desktop" and after you read what it wants and change the password it doesn't take affect until you "log out." which is undefined when you aren't logging in in the first place. Need I ask why couldn't they make these requirements configurable?


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## reneg (Jun 19, 2002)

netringer said:


> Thanks a bunch for the docs, reneg!
> 
> I'm wading my way through the install. You tempted fate by violating the law: NEVER quote revision numbers.
> 
> ...


I'm glad those docs are somewhat helpful. I wasn't worried about revision numbers as I knew they'd change over time, I just wanted to illustrate the sequence of steps to getting things going on a WHS server.

If you're serious about updating the docs, I uploaded the PyTivo walkthrough .doc file to the same drop box. I've misplaced the streambaby walkthrough .doc file and will have to make a note to look harder for that one. Looking back, it doesn't look like PDF files were a great choice with all the security exploits of late.

When I've been away from home, I love the remote desktop over the internet feature in WHS. I've been able to pickup shows that have been recorded on my Tivo, and through WHS accessing a PC on my home network running kmttg & videoredo, I can transfer ad-scanned & compressed programs remotely.

Good luck


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

HP has released an update to the add-in today that allows you to transfer, automatically all of the episodes of a program to the Mediasmart server.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

jkovach said:


> Can copy-protected shows be moved onto the Mediasmart server? If not, it's worthless for many of us with cable.


+1


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## en sabur nur (Oct 30, 2007)

jmpage2 said:


> HP has released an update to the add-in today that allows you to transfer, automatically all of the episodes of a program to the Mediasmart server.


That's good to hear. It must be nice to have terabytes of hard drive space to use to hold your recordings...and be able to automatically transfer them back to the tivo should be easy.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

jmpage2 said:


> HP has released an update to the add-in today that allows you to transfer, automatically all of the episodes of a program to the Mediasmart server.


I hope it's fixed to show the entire NP list rather the first chunk the TiVo returned. (I can see by using PYTivo and KMTTG that it takes multiple requests to get the whole list when the TiVo has a lotta drive storage.)

And no, it doesn't ignore the no-copy flag. Vote with your dollars and drop the premium channels that have the flag.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

And to elaborate on what netringer said, the no-copy flag is enforced on the TiVo end; it's not possible to ignore it on the PC end. No app will get you that. You'd have to hack the TiVo.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Hi, my name is. I'm a media addict.

I couldn't resist. I just ordered two Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EADS 2TB drives from NewEgg for $109 each.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136344

I'll put those in my 1TB HP EX470 WHS, pulling out the extra 1 TB drive I slapped in at first.
It should take me a few weeks to fill up the 5TB...then I'll add another 2TB. 

The saddest thing is as present I don't even have access because I've been unable to do a server restore on the WHS, but I'm confident I'll get it done as soon as I have my real XP machine healthy.


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## kmackenz (Aug 22, 2003)

... I don't see the TiVos any more. Of course the idiot I am I overwrote the old version of the add-in so I cna't test to see if it will work again. I have two TiVos a Premiere and a Series 3. They see each other and regular desktops with TTG see both.... but the MediaSmart software doesn't see either.

Restarted everything.... Nothing... Reinstalled.... Going crazy.... Was working fine (well the old version)....

Any one have any thoughts? Also, anyone know where I can get the original version?


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Being that I've been unsuccessful in doing a server recovery (so far) it occurred to me that the last thing I need is to spend more of my remaining lifetime fighting with Windows. 

I may keep the HP WHS for a while, but I'm going to aim for a new Mac Mini with a JBOD array. I LIKE the idea that I can read the drives anywhere. I just need to find a 4 bay drive enclosure...or I may stack 2 drive enclosures.

With new Mini it can be a HDTV source from saved media and stream Hulu and (ugh) iTunes directly over HDMI while it runs my home automation and media serving. Win, win, win.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

netringer said:


> Being that I've been unsuccessful in doing a server recovery (so far) it occurred to me that the last thing I need is to spend more of my remaining lifetime fighting with Windows.
> 
> I may keep the HP WHS for a while, but I'm going to aim for a new Mac Mini with a JBOD array.


You could always put Linux on your HP...


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