# 7.3 Bug List



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Here is the list of bugs in 7.3 I've gathered from the forum so far. Feel free to add to it.

Viewing Recording History causes reboot in many cases.

To-Do list incorrectly lists contents or doesn't list it at all.

Box temperature no longer displays.

'Clear' no longer works in To-Do list.

Menu navigation incorrect when deleting from To-Do list.

Sluggish operation of the Guide. General slowdown of UI.

If "Stop Recording - Change Channel" option is selected channel is not changed.

Info screen incorrectly showing transferred programs as partial recordings.

Time bar annoyingly shows briefly when changing channels.

ToDo list will display auto-record Wish List's with no upcoming recordings as "None Scheduled" without the name of the wish list

Some channel names show up in superscript in the To Do List. 
===============================

EDIT: 6/26/06 -- consolidate bugs reported since original posting
===============================
If you do MRV and start to play from there. When it's done transfering and you are still watching it (within the last 5 min as normal) and hit left, no delete option when their used to be one.

The 'stop' button was rendered inoperable on the Toshiba SD-H400 (and other DVD player models) remote with the 7.3 upgrade. (Edit 7/3: If you have this problem you can use the left arrow for the same function until the bug is fixed.)

When changing the date of when a already recorded program goes to "delete if space is needed" on the software before V7.3 you could hold down the right arrow and the date would scroll up quickly day by day, then if you wanted to you hold down the left arrow and the date would scroll backwards. With V7.3 you have to push the arrow once for each day change instead of just holding down the button, so if you want hold onto a program for say 3 weeks more before you just held down the right arrow until you were close now you have to push the arrow 21 times and not too fast or it will not take.

Push the Left button, shortly after it begins, the menu selection item to play a program will still say "play". And a couple seconds later it suddenly changes to "Resume playing."

If the recording ends while you are watching it, the time bar still will show the red recording icon until you exit to Tivo Central. Also if you exit near the end, it will not ask you to delete the program. This is definately new to 7.3.

Multiple reports of networking problems of various types - usually but not always resolved by switching to fixed IP.

When your in the "Live Guide" and you want record something say during the week and you go into guide options and select the date of the channel you want to record from it doesn't come up first. It shows you the listing of the channel your currently watching.

If I'm watching a program that is transferring from the computer it shows a red icon rather then the old blue icon on the timer bar.

Hitting clear on a recording in suggestions that is currently being recorded brings up the screen asking if you want to stop the recording in progress. Saying yes won't stop the recording.

Incomplete to-do listing.

"Live Guide", scroll to channel, change options to another date, come back, now on channel you were watching.

Duration of Product Watch or other transferred videos shown in "Program" screen don't match actual length in many cases (the duration is usually shown as much longer than the actual program length). (Some discussion as to what should be proper here)

At 11:25am, the Guide Info would show all the shows starting at 11:30am. Now you have to wait until 11:30am to see what is on during that 30-minute time slot. (Some prefer it this way)

My 540 unit seems to only transer a small amount of a show off the pc and then it is done.
My 240 unit has no problem....


Up until 7.3, it was easy to set up a program to view, revert back to Live TV, and then start the program in 2 button clicks. I'd play the program, then hit the Live TV button, which would pause it. When I was ready to watch, the left arrow would bring up that program, and then PLAY would start it again. 2 clicks.
No more with 7.3. Now the left arrow just brings up the main menu, and I've got to select NP, select the program again (which can be 2 clicks if it's in a group, as most of mine are), and hit play. 4-5 clicks.

You also can't view etailed program info (like "original air date") by pressing enter. You have to press info now.

When the active tuner is recording a program, and while you are watching another recording, hitting the LiveTV button causes a screen to come up asking if you want to change channels and stop recording. No matter what you choose, the tivo will then stop responding to any remote commands and force you to reboot the tivo to get any control back. This happens about 1 in 10 times that I do this. (Apparently holdover from 7.2.5a)

Date problem in guide info screen in early morning hours.

When inside a Group Folder menu and there are enough episodes to have SCROLL ARROWS (more than 8 episodes) appear and you hit CLEAR the list will scroll down one line (not one page). This causes the blue bar to move down two lines instead of one. This behavior does not happen when there are no scroll arrows. It also happens on the Now Playing list sometimes. It doesn't appear to happen as long as you are not on the first page of listed shows.

I have 6 channels marked as Favorites. When I change the Program Guide to Favorites, and then change channels, it loops thru all of my You Receive channels and NOT just the Favorites.

I can't give three thumbs up to a program in my suggestions folder. It only allows one thumb.

Lockup/reboot issue when switching to Live TV (holdover from 7.2.5a?)

List popping back to a totally different week after deleting one to-do entry.

In the To Do List, there is no longer a warning on the main page when a program may be clipped.

In the To Do List, when you manually delete a program (because the Clear button no longer works), it returns you to the top of the To Do List instead of the most recent position when initiating the delete. This is annoying if there are 4 scheduled programs you want to delete bunched together a couple of pages down on the To Do List.

It used to be that if you began watching a show from Now Playing while you had groups turned on when you finished watching and went back to Now Playing you were still inside the group. Now you get dumped out into the full Now Playing list.

If you watch a program while its still being recorded the recording icon is shown even when the recording is over.

trying to view guide data for a future date will return the guide to the channel you started from, instead of the channel selected when you went to select another date.

When using the Multi Room Viewing transfer function you used to have the option to "transfer from paused point" but now you do not?

Thumbs up or down not accepted for some shows when viewing the guide. I can go into find programs and rate it normally, though.

I have a Sony SVR-3000 and have noticed that when I push the "List" button on the remote, I no longer get a bong or any kind of noise to cue me that the Tivo recognizes the command. Since the list can sometimes take several seconds to come up, this causes me to push the List button repeatedly thinking the tivo didn't get the command...then the List comes up and I get a bunch of error bongs because I pushed the List button 10 times

If I am halfway through watching a program and I hit List, when I go back to the program, it says Play, not Resume Playing. And if I play it, it starts over from the beginning.

Click into a program description for one program, hit the left arrow button, and it returns to the list but on a totally different program than the one I was viewing. But when I've tried to replicate this, it doesn't happen again.

=========================
EDIT: Added 6/27/06
=========================

If you're in the guide, and you click to the right to scroll through the shows that are coming up on a specific channel, when you scroll back to the show that's currently on, it says "To be announced" in the title, and "no information available" in the description, even though it had correct guide data before you scrolled through the other shows.

My Series2 Tivo received the "kidzone" update a few days ago and ever since has been restarting itself every night. I know this because when I wake up and turn my TV on the 30 second skip is gone and has to be entered again. Also the channel banner is at full display. And if I go to the wishlist menu, if I had left say "Atlanta & Sports/Baseball" selected it will open up at the top with"Create new Wishlist" selected.

==========================
EDIT: Added 6/29/06
==========================

Two Tivo's in the house, one 7.2 the other 7.3. When transferring a show and watching it while transfering, things go OK. However, when the show is over, instead of ending gracefully you get the "transfer interupted, go plug the Tivo back in to the network, dummy" error message. (EDIT 6/30: also reported for 7.3->7.3 transfers both wired and WI-FI)

==========================
EDIT: Added 7/1/06
==========================
I occasionally can't delete a recording with the delete now option. After selecting delete now TiVo returns to the now playing list and the recording is still there. The show can only be deleted with the clear key. (Confirmed that this is not misunderstanding of batch delete feature)


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

If you do MRV and start to play from there. When it's done transfering and you are still watching it (within the last 5 min as normal) and hit left, no delete option when they used to be one.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

The 'stop' button was rendered inoperable on the Toshiba SD-H400 remote with the 7.3 upgrade.

I started a thread about this last week on the 'help' forum of this board.

*Furthermore*, I wish software upgrades like this were NOT compulsory. I didn't need or want this kidzone thing anyway. Now I am really sweating my OTHER Tivo getting this 'upgrade'.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 395 v7.3 Small Bug, hope TiVo will fix it

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When changing the date of when a already recorded program goes to "_delete if space is needed_" on the software before V7.3 you could hold down the right arrow and the date would scroll up quickly day by day, then if you wanted to you hold down the left arrow and the date would scroll backwards. With V7.3 you have to push the arrow once for each day change instead of just holding down the button, so if you want hold onto a program for say 3 weeks more before you just held down the right arrow until you were close now you have to push the arrow 21 times and not too fast or it will not take.

I know its a small issue and many people don't use it much, but it was nice feature before and I hope it can be put back in.

Note I posted this before but a combo list is better

__________________
Les Daniels


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## lc_04 (Jun 16, 2006)

When first beginning to play a program:
Push the Left button, shortly after it begins, the menu selection item to play a program will still say "play". And a couple seconds later it suddenly changes to "Resume playing." Minor but very noticable.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

I've also noticed Product Watch programs show huge times for their programs. I never saw this before 7.3 but it may be a Product Watch issue and not a 7.3 issue. However, seeing the partial recording issue I wonder if 7.3 just doesn't parse the metadata correctly.


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## thechiz (Oct 3, 2005)

I usually sign up on the priority lists for TiVo releases.
I am glad I didn't bother this time.

Like others have said I have no need for Kidzone, Guru guide or whatever.

I just hope that 7.3"B" gets downloaded in a few weeks to my TiVo,
instead of 7.3 in the general rollout.

Whats going on, are we getting jealous of all the other bugs residing
in Cable Co DVR's ?


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

thechiz said:


> I usually sign up on the priority lists for TiVo releases.
> I am glad I didn't bother this time.
> 
> Like others have said I have no need for Kidzone, Guru guide or whatever.
> ...


Hopefully TiVo will exhibit a little sanity and stop pushing this update before any more boxes are infected.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

I also have noticed when watching a program that is currently recording. If the recording ends while you are watching it, the time bar still will show the red recording icon until you exit to Tivo Central. Also if you exit near the end, it will not ask you to delete the program. This is definately new to 7.3.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

RoyK said:


> If "Stop Recording - Change Channel" option is selected channel is not changed.


I've been noticing this one too - man is it annoying... I've found that first changing the channel using the arrows works.


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## NewYorkLaw (Dec 9, 2005)

As a result of 7.3, my tivo no longer recognizes my netgear wg111 wired usb card. I posted a note in HELP yesterday, but have not yet seen a response..


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

I found another 7.3 bug. When your in the "Live Guide" and you want record something say during the week and you go into guide options and select the date of the channel you want to record from it doesn't come up first. It shows you the listing of the channel your currently watching.


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## mikegrb (May 19, 2006)

Noticed this afternoon that if I'm watching a program that is transferring from the computer it shows a red icon rather then the old blue icon on the timer bar. Don't have a second TiVo yet so dunno if it affects other MRV transfers. The NPL does show the proper blue icon though. 

Also, hitting clear on a recording in suggestions that is currently being recorded brings up the screen asking if you want to stop the recording in progress. Saying yes won't stop the recording. Selecting the recording and then selecting the stop recording option sometimes won't work if I tried clear already.


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## gayste (Feb 27, 2002)

RoyK said:


> Here is the list of bugs in 7.3 I've gathered from the forum so far. Feel free to add to it.
> 
> Viewing Recording History causes reboot in many cases.
> 
> ...


Good list! We found all of these (except the reboot issue, I did not want to make it reboot)

Plus these others that have been mentioned:
Stop button does not work on TiVo recordings

Incomplete to-do listing

"Live Guide", scroll to channel, change options to another date, come back, now on channel you were watching

Plus a new one (at least on this list):
Banner bar does not reflect "fast display" setting

All this on the Pioneer DVR-810H


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

KidZone, GuruGuide -- :down: 

Does anybody really want this?


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

skanter said:


> KidZone, GuruGuide -- :down:
> 
> Does anybody really want this?


 Possibly the millions of families with kids, perhaps... 

Just because you don't have kids and/or don't care what your kids watch, don't presume to think that all other parents don't want the added protection and control over what their kids watch that KZ can afford...

Better to have solutions like this, that keep the control within the individual family, than government-imposed censorship as some extremist organizations are seeking...


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## TechDreamer (Jan 27, 2002)

I'm so glad I got rid of my Series 2 box.

I have a hacked lifetime Series 1 with 500 GB and I'm happy.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Add:

Duration of Product Watch or other transferred videos shown in "Program" screen don't match actual length in many cases (the duration is usually shown as much longer than the actual program length).

Item count for folder in NPL not always updated after delete of folder item and remaining item count > 1. (Seems to be a screen refresh problem and happens more frequently with PW folder than others).

Recently Deleted folder ordered oldest first, should be newest first, to be consistent with the NPL. (Introduced in 7.2).

edit: noted that duration bug also applies to other transferred videos (e.g. MRV and TTG)


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

mchips said:


> Possibly the millions of families with kids, perhaps...
> 
> Just because you don't have kids and/or don't care what your kids watch, don't presume to think that all other parents don't want the added protection and control over what their kids watch that KZ can afford...
> 
> Better to have solutions like this, that keep the control within the individual family, than government-imposed censorship as some extremist organizations are seeking...


I do have kids, and have parental controls already, but never saw a need to use them. I care very much what my kid watches. We discuss what is approriate, and kid abides by it.

What I find distasteful is people letting someone ELSE decide what their kids should watch, because they are too lazy or stupid to figure it out themselves.
:down:


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## ryandelany (Jan 7, 2004)

Since getting 7.3 on a Series 2 Tivo, I have noticed that when viewing the Guide Info, previous versions would automatically move to the next time slot when the current time was 5 minutes or less from the next time slot and show you what was coming. Now with 7.3, it won't slide over to the next time slot until the exact time is reached, or if you hit the fast-forward arrow.

For example, at 11:25am, the Guide Info would show all the shows starting at 11:30am. Now you have to wait until 11:30am to see what is on during that 30-minute time slot.

This is very annoying indeed! Put it back the way it was!

Ryan


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

skanter said:


> KidZone, GuruGuide -- :down:
> 
> Does anybody really want this?


That debate would be a fine subject for another thread. Can we keep this one just for keeping track of bugs please?

Roy


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## Bimwad (Jul 4, 2005)

ryandelany said:


> Since getting 7.3 on a Series 2 Tivo, I have noticed that when viewing the Guide Info, previous versions would automatically move to the next time slot when the current time was 5 minutes or less from the next time slot and show you what was coming. Now with 7.3, it won't slide over to the next time slot until the exact time is reached, or if you hit the fast-forward arrow.
> 
> For example, at 11:25am, the Guide Info would show all the shows starting at 11:30am. Now you have to wait until 11:30am to see what is on during that 30-minute time slot.
> 
> ...


If this is true, I'm glad they changed it. That's how it should work IMO. I always found the previous arrangement odd.


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## miller890 (Feb 15, 2002)

The first thumbs up is a bong, not a bing when you thumb a show for the first time.


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## NewbieInTheATL (Dec 15, 2002)

Bimwad said:


> If this is true, I'm glad they changed it. That's how it should work IMO. I always found the previous arrangement odd.


Totally agree. That has always bugged me.


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## NewbieInTheATL (Dec 15, 2002)

Another two for the list:

I always have the current time displayed in the bottom right corner of the screen using the SPS9S code. Now, during playback or live TV when I hit a button to display the time bar (e.g. play, pause, ff, rw) the location of the current time shifts from the bottom right of the screen (i.e. below the time bar) to just above the time bar. Not a huge deal but a bug nonetheless.

Also, when entering the SPS codes, there is no longer any audible confirmation when the first 3 buttons (i.e. S-P-S) are pressed.


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## bud8man (Feb 13, 2004)

My 540 unit seems to only transer a small amount of a show off the pc and then it is done.
My 240 unit has no problem....
So...I have to transfer to the 240 and then to the 540 if I want to keep the show somewhere...


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Was recording a show and wanted to restart the Tivo. 

Previously, this would interrupt the recording (obviously) and Tivo would start up recording again after the reboot and show two instances of the program in the NPL.

Now, only the current instance of the program is shown - the pre-reboot portion is deleted (and shows in the Recently Deleted folder). It's nice you can get it back, but I'm guessing most people are going to say "Where's the rest of my show?"


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## BobbyWDC (Mar 28, 2005)

Sorry, I posted this in its own thread, when it belongs here, since it's another 7.3 bug:

Up until 7.3, it was easy to set up a program to view, revert back to Live TV, and then start the program in 2 button clicks. I'd play the program, then hit the Live TV button, which would pause it. When I was ready to watch, the left arrow would bring up that program, and then PLAY would start it again. 2 clicks.

No more with 7.3. Now the left arrow just brings up the main menu, and I've got to select NP, select the program again (which can be 2 clicks if it's in a group, as most of mine are), and hit play. 4-5 clicks.

It's another little thing, but I'm wondering why these things are either being altered or falling through the cracks. It's the little stuff like this that makes the TiVo interface so superior to anything else, and isn't the interface the biggest asset TiVo has???? With every cable & satellite company making its own box with a bad interface, why slowly take apart the TiVo interface? Or maybe these are all bugs, in which case I wonder about quality control.

Either way, I'm not going to be very happy when 7.3 shows up on my second TiVo.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

You also can't view etailed program info (like "original air date") by pressing enter. You have to press info now. I'm very annoyed.

I also have the reboot problem when trying to view recording history.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

skanter said:


> I do have kids, and have parental controls already, but never saw a need to use them. I care very much what my kid watches. We discuss what is approriate, and kid abides by it.
> 
> What I find distasteful is people letting someone ELSE decide what their kids should watch, because they are too lazy or stupid to figure it out themselves.
> :down:


then you do not know what KidZone is then.

KidZOne is not just about using someone's list. Read the PDF on it and I see I can enable kid zone - pick some simple rating levels and it will only show content that is within those ratings. whether it is a recording on the TiVo or a live TiVo show being seen through the TiVo.

We have a bonus room upstairs and I have a SD H400 up there with lots of good shows it records - as you say I discuss with the kids what is good to watch and why and we decide together on what the TiVo will record. I then yanked the cable directly itno the TV and the only input is the TiVo.
before KidZone I also have taken the remote away so they can not change channels but use the controls on the front of the SD H400 to play shows.

Problem is they still see whatever channel the TiVo is on and I sometimes have to roust them as they sit and stare at whatever cartoon network feeds up next.

I figure with Kid Zone - I will blacklist cartoon network and other such channels, while the TiVo will still record shows from those channels that are set to record, and just leave the educational channel as the ones they can flip through. Then I can give them the remote back. If they want to veg in fornt of the TV now it will be educational shows but TiVo through the ratings will make sure it is not "The siege of Leningrad" if it has too much violence and thus a higher rating.

Leaving it entirely up to kids to make judgement calls based on what we have discussed is not exactly going to work. It is a scientific fact that their judgement centers are not complete in the brain yet. I look forward to a tool like kidZone to help out with a TV I am not about to personally monitor all the time.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> then you do not know what KidZone is then.
> 
> KidZOne is not just about using someone's list. Read the PDF on it and I see I can enable kid zone - pick some simple rating levels and it will only show content that is within those ratings.


Once again folks can we PLEASE restrict this thread to 7.3 bugs and not a discussion of pros/cons of Kidzone?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Here's another major bug thats been around since 7.2.5a:

When the active tuner is recording a program, and while you are watching another recording, hitting the LiveTV button causes a screen to come up asking if you want to change channels and stop recording. No matter what you choose, the tivo will then stop responding to any remote commands and force you to reboot the tivo to get any control back. This happens about 1 in 10 times that I do this. Its also stupid because I was watching a recording and not changing channels to begin with.

I reported this to Tivo before and it wasn't fixed in 7.3. I have little hope that it will be fixed in the next release either. But its a great thing we have Kidzone and Guru Guides. I'm so excited to lose parts of 4 different recordings this week.


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

I just found another Tivo bug.

It's 2AM Monday, 6/19. I hit Guide and then info, and this it what it gives me:









Hmmm...Day: Sun 6/18? That was yesterday! I hit select and this is what I see:









The current info (i.e., Mon 6/19)!

I tried changing the date in the Guide Options screen, and once you hit Select, Tivo will always show the day AFTER the day you selected.

I have seen the same issue with both of my Tivos (240 and 540 Series 2's)

I love Tivo, but I'm amazed at just HOW buggy this release is.


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

So I guess this is how were going to differentiate our selves from the competition by having MORE BUGS then them.


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

^^ by the way, my guide shows the correct guide data as of ~10AM, so maybe this only happens within a couple of hours after midnight.


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## killme (May 9, 2004)

SCROLLING BUG - When inside a Group Folder menu and there are enough episodes to have SCROLL ARROWS (more than 8 episodes) appear and you hit CLEAR the list will scroll down one line (not one page). This causes the blue bar to move down two lines instead of one. This behavior does not happen when there are no scroll arrows. It also happens on the Now Playing list sometimes. It doesn't appear to happen as long as you are not on the first page of listed shows.

I was recording a show and experienced the reboot when viewing Recording History. The previous recorded segment was still there and was not deleted.

My unit is the DT model 649.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

ufo4sale said:


> So I guess this is how were going to differentiate our selves from the competition by having MORE BUGS then them.


TiVo's strongest suite is its reliability and dependability which, IMHO, are even more important than having sexy features in promoting TiVo. I haven't gotten v.7.3 yet and after reading this and other threads am not looking forward to it. V.7.2.2 hasn't shown problems that I'm aware of, and, if it ain't broke...

These Forums are the perfect place for TiVo to become aware of problems. Anything that is even potentially a problem appears in spades. Lets hope that TiVo didn't rush v.7.3's release for competitive reasons and that problems being reported in v.7.3 aren't indicative of anything significant and are short lived at worst.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ufo4sale said:


> So I guess this is how were going to differentiate our selves from the competition by having MORE BUGS then them.


That would seem to be the case. There is absolutely no valid excuse for Tivo to continue pushing out this vermin laden release.


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## cmarti02 (Feb 6, 2004)

I have 6 channels marked as Favorites. When I change the Program Guide to Favorites, and then change channels, it loops thru all of my You Receive channels and NOT just the Favorites.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

I can't give three thumbs up to a program in my suggestions folder. It only allows one thumb.


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## sdbtig (Oct 27, 2005)

I don't know if this is a 7.3 bug or just bad guide data but none of the repeats being shown tonight on the 6 networks are flagged as repeats. For example King of Queens shows an original air date of 3/20/2006 when you hit the info button but there is no repeat flag in the guide.

also, the scrolling problem mentioned earlier also occurs in the guide options. You can not hold right and scroll through the dates and times anymore, you have to keep pressing right.

And one more guide bug..If you select a show and then "season pass & options" and "view upcoming episodes" and select one you get an error when going back to the guide by hitting left twice. The error is "An error occurred while getting guide data for the the selected Program Error code: Error #32" I can repeat this every time, on multiple units.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

sdbtig said:


> I don't know if this is a 7.3 bug or just bad guide data but none of the repeats being shown tonight on the 6 networks are flagged as repeats. For example King of Queens shows an original air date of 3/20/2006 when you hit the info button but there is no repeat flag in the guide.


Think that's the guide data. I've been noticing it for some time now.


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## Narkul (Nov 7, 2004)

Not sure if these are 7.3 related or what I may have done to initiate them but here we go.

I could not delete any programs in a wishlist group by selecting 'delete now'. They would only delete if I pressed the clear key. Other group folders were not affected.

I could not initiate a pc to TiVo transfer. The message said I had to wait for a previous transfer to complete although there was no transfer showing in the now playing list.

Restarting the TiVo solved both these issues and a day old requested mpeg began transferring from my pc in the Now Playing list.


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## Go FasTA (Dec 31, 2002)

rainwater said:


> Here's another major bug thats been around since 7.2.5a:
> 
> When the active tuner is recording a program, and while you are watching another recording, hitting the LiveTV button causes a screen to come up asking if you want to change channels and stop recording. No matter what you choose, the tivo will then stop responding to any remote commands and force you to reboot the tivo to get any control back. This happens about 1 in 10 times that I do this. Its also stupid because I was watching a recording and not changing channels to begin with.
> 
> I reported this to Tivo before and it wasn't fixed in 7.3. I have little hope that it will be fixed in the next release either. But its a great thing we have Kidzone and Guru Guides. I'm so excited to lose parts of 4 different recordings this week.


I have the exact same issue with my DT unit. The most annoying part about this for me was that I was watching a show that had been recording for about 3 hours (NASCAR race). The recording was still in progress, but the other tuner was idle. I assumed hitting the live TV button would switch me to the second tuner. I think in the 4+ years I've had TiVo, this might be the most annoying bug yet since it renders the machine useless without a hard reboot.


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## killme (May 9, 2004)

Another bug is that when you are playing a recorded show and you rewind to the beginning and you hit the LEFT ARROW the menu should show PLAY, but it shows RESUME PLAYING.

Also, the menu you see when selecting a show in Now Playing is indented with spaces. If you look at the menu of shows listed on the To-Do List there is no indentation.

Another bug-- I canceled a transfer from the Now Playing list. When it brought me back to the list the blue bar was highlighting the item above the show I stopped transferring.

This is on the DT 649 unit.


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## killme (May 9, 2004)

An update on that scrolling bug.. for each time you hit CLEAR the blue bar will move down one so if you hit it 5 times you end up skipping 5 items down the list.


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

"TivoJerry" Do you know when a new software will come out for all of these 7.3 bugs???


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

timstack8969 said:


> "TivoJerry" Do you know when a new software will come out for all of these 7.3 bugs???


I've noticed a complete lack of comments from the TiVo folks to this thread....


----------



## loganasu (Jan 17, 2005)

cmarti02 said:


> I have 6 channels marked as Favorites. When I change the Program Guide to Favorites, and then change channels, it loops thru all of my You Receive channels and NOT just the Favorites.


I have this problem as well.
Tivo suggested that I rest everything.
I haven't been able to move all of my lost recordings off the TiVo yet, So I haven't done a Clear and Delete Everything yet.

Tivo said it that doesn't work, then they could do an exchange for a refurb machine.


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## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

I'm curious as to whether anyone has recently received the 7.3, that didn't specifically request it. (ie whether Tivo is still pushing out the new/buggy version).


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## Leon WIlkinson (Feb 13, 2000)

jfh3 said:


> Add:
> 
> Duration of Product Watch or other transferred videos shown in "Program" screen don't match actual length in many cases (the duration is usually shown as much longer than the actual program length).


This is not a bug as far as I can tell. The duration is now the Download time.

MRV & TTG could be the same way.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

RoyK said:


> I've noticed a complete lack of comments from the TiVo folks to this thread....


 They have replied in other 7.3 bug threads...

This isn't the only one, and yours wasn't the first... 

Bottom line, they've stated they're looking into the various issues... some they have specifically acknowledged are going to be fixed... I don't expect them to respond to each and every one, but I'm sure they're listening, and probably working their butts off putting the next release together to address many of these issues as quickly as is humanly possible...

I have every confidence these bugs will be addressed... I don't experience all of these bugs, and I feel I've been pretty thorough in trying to reproduce them... so, not only do they have to work on fixes for these bugs, they have filter through which are and aren't real issues, and which are user errors or misperceptions...

e.g., I don't have an incomplete To Do List, and I haven't been able to speak to anyone personally who does either... It makes me wonder if whomever reported this bug isn't referring to the none-scheduled items at the bottom of the list with no descriptions... if so, those are ARWL's, and is addressed in another bug... anyway...

I hope, if nothing else, this makes people appreciate more just how much the TiVo software has done, and continues to do... most all of these "bugs" are for things that other DVR's do not do... so, once fixed, hopefully people will have a better appreciation for them, as it seems many people, myself probably included, have just taken them for granted until now...


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Leon WIlkinson said:


> This is not a bug as far as I can tell. The duration is now the Download time.
> 
> MRV & TTG could be the same way.


It's still "Duration:" on the Program information screen and there's no reference anywhere to "download" or "transfer" time (both of which are irrelevant to most end users anyway).

If Tivo wants to include "download" or "transfer" time, it should go on the "Program Details" screen, not the Program information screen.

What makes you think the time shown is the download time anyway?


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

mchips said:


> ...
> 
> I have every confidence these bugs will be addressed... I don't experience all of these bugs, and I feel I've been pretty thorough in trying to reproduce them... so, not only do they have to work on fixes for these bugs, they have filter through which are and aren't real issues, and which are user errors or misperceptions...


As do I. Problem is that most of the reported bugs are not subtle ones. They should have been found, addressed, and fixed BEFORE the software was generally released. And now that they have been pointed out continued shipping of this version is inexcusable.


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## Leon WIlkinson (Feb 13, 2000)

jfh3 said:


> It's still "Duration:" on the Program information screen and there's no reference anywhere to "download" or "transfer" time (both of which are irrelevant to most end users anyway).
> 
> If Tivo wants to include "download" or "transfer" time, it should go on the "Program Details" screen, not the Program information screen.
> 
> What makes you think the time shown is the download time anyway?




```
Jell-o                             Mon 6/19 12:26pm duration of :32
 
            The Home Depot Carpet              Mon 6/19 12:59pm duration of  2:37

            Jack La Lanne's Power Juicer       Mon 6/19 3:37pm
```
This info should be listed as d/l time as you said.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

RoyK said:


> As do I. Problem is that most of the reported bugs are not subtle ones. They should have been found, addressed, and fixed BEFORE the software was generally released. And now that they have been pointed out continued shipping of this version is inexcusable.


Normally TiVo won't stop a software release unless there is something majorly wrong with the core functionality. Practically all the problems mentioned have been cosmetic, which while annoying, won't prevent people from using the DVR functionality of the TiVo..

The only one that could possible halt the release would be the reboot issue, but since that doesn't occur for everyone and only occurs when viewing the recording history, TiVo may not consider it high enough in priority to halt the release.

I don't have 7.3 yet, but my hope is that by the time I receive it, a 7.3a release (which I'm sure they are working on now) won't be too far off.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

morac said:


> Normally TiVo won't stop a software release unless there is something majorly wrong with the core functionality. Practically all the problems mentioned have been cosmetic, which while annoying, won't prevent people from using the DVR functionality of the TiVo..
> 
> The only one that could possible halt the release would be the reboot issue, but since that doesn't occur for everyone and only occurs when viewing the recording history, TiVo may not consider it high enough in priority to halt the release.
> 
> I don't have 7.3 yet, but my hope is that by the time I receive it, a 7.3a release (which I'm sure they are working on now) won't be too far off.


The reboot issue should have stopped the distribution in its tracks. The system CRASHES when a user does a perfectly valid action.

As far as the other issues being annoying you're right. They are. I don't expect that from TiVo. I thought their standards were higher than that.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

RoyK said:


> The reboot issue should have stopped the distribution in its tracks. The system CRASHES when a user does a perfectly valid action.
> 
> As far as the other issues being annoying you're right. They are. I don't expect that from TiVo. I thought their standards were higher than that.


I give Tivo a qualified pass on this one - they clearly needed to get KidZone out ASAP, given the previous press releases on it. I'm sure they weighed the benefit of getting out such a substantive feature against the drawbacks of introducing a handful of annoying, but generally harmless (reboot notwithstanding) bugs.

But the UI bugs mentioned in this thread and elsewhere need to get fixed ASAP - Tivo's UI and rock-solid reputation for quality DVR control set it apart from the knockoffs. They can't afford to lose that reputation.


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## Leon WIlkinson (Feb 13, 2000)

I was looking in Program details and noticed Disk Usage has the GB used to the 100th's of, I wonder if there might be a whole HD meter hide some where.


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## Rombaldi (Aug 17, 2002)

Leon WIlkinson said:


> I was looking in Program details and noticed Disk Usage has the GB used to the 100th's of, I wonder if there might be a whole HD meter hide some where.


Yeah, quite annoying, been wanting a FREE SPACE indicator for ages and hearing that it's "not meaningful" or "not practical", yet it can say that a program is using 1.67gb (6% of space).

eh?


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## n1mie (May 29, 2006)

Stu_Bee said:


> I'm curious as to whether anyone has recently received the 7.3, that didn't specifically request it. (ie whether Tivo is still pushing out the new/buggy version).


Received it this morning while I was sleeping.

Argh!


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## n1mie (May 29, 2006)

ryandelany said:


> For example, at 11:25am, the Guide Info would show all the shows starting at 11:30am. Now you have to wait until 11:30am to see what is on during that 30-minute time slot.
> 
> This is very annoying indeed! Put it back the way it was!


This IS a bug. What sense does it make to show me 11:30 programming data at 11:58? Crazy, stupid, waste of my time. I don't care what programs I missed, I care about what programs are getting ready to start!

Bug, please fix!


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

RoyK said:


> As do I. Problem is that most of the reported bugs are not subtle ones. They should have been found, addressed, and fixed BEFORE the software was generally released. And now that they have been pointed out continued shipping of this version is inexcusable.


Sorry to say that in large part I agree. Some of these bugs will hurt TiVo's reputation for being reliable which, IMHO, is more important than having a zillion features. New buyers don't look at all the features right away, but when a recorder acts flakey they know it.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> I give Tivo a qualified pass on this one - they clearly needed to get KidZone out ASAP, given the previous press releases on it. I'm sure they weighed the benefit of getting out such a substantive feature against the drawbacks of introducing a handful of annoying, but generally harmless (reboot notwithstanding) bugs.
> 
> But the UI bugs mentioned in this thread and elsewhere need to get fixed ASAP - Tivo's UI and rock-solid reputation for quality DVR control set it apart from the knockoffs. They can't afford to lose that reputation.


Obviously the press release was premature. This version of software is nowhere near ready for prime time. The reputation for quality DVR control is about to be destroyed by a lack of DVR software quality control.


----------



## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

ryandelany said:


> Since getting 7.3 on a Series 2 Tivo, I have noticed that when viewing the Guide Info, previous versions would automatically move to the next time slot when the current time was 5 minutes or less from the next time slot and show you what was coming. Now with 7.3, it won't slide over to the next time slot until the exact time is reached, or if you hit the fast-forward arrow.
> 
> For example, at 11:25am, the Guide Info would show all the shows starting at 11:30am. Now you have to wait until 11:30am to see what is on during that 30-minute time slot.
> 
> ...


It's definitely a change; perhaps unintentional, but the 5 minute early change of EPG listings is a uniquely TiVo thing which I've never liked. So maybe I'll actually have something to (briefly) look forward to from v.7.3.

Of course I'm "wrong" but that's why I'm the TiVo Troll; I want to watch TV my way, not TiVo's way! TiVo has many features which I either have no interest in or actually find intrusive.

*"Different strokes for different folks!"*


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Obviously the press release was premature. This version of software is nowhere near ready for prime time. The reputation for quality DVR control is about to be destroyed by a lack of DVR software quality control.


Spoken like someone who probably has never been in software development. 

Yes, these are bugs. Yes, they are annoying. But it's unlikely this release will destroy Tivo's reputation, given that only a very small subset of Tivo's user base will ever encounter them and that Tivo will likely have the more annoying ones fixed quickly. And I'm sure the software guys don't have final say over the release date.

There were obviously major changes required to incorporate KZ (and to a lesser extent, PW and TC). We don't know if Tivo knew of these bugs and decided to release anyway or the beta team didn't find these. (I hope it's not the latter, because there's some pretty easy ones to find in 7.3).

Some of them may look sloppy (and they are), but they are annoying, not terminal.

I can't imagine many existing Tivo users canceling service (or even not recommending Tivo) over these. And new users won't know that the defects are indeed bugs (perhaps other than the inability to "Clear" from the ToDo list, which is a feature documented in the Viewer's Guide).


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> Spoken like someone who probably has never been in software development.


FYI I recently retired after a career in software development that began in 1964 so I do believe I have some small knowledge of the field.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

RoyK said:


> FYI I recently retired after a career in software development that began in 1964 so I do believe I have some small knowledge of the field.


Fair enough. Then I'm sure you know the drill and all the trade offs that are always made.

I'm sure there are a few Tivo developers telling someone "I told you so" about 7.3 and someone telling them back "but we had to get KidZone out NOW and we have a good reason".

As a developer, this release feels rushed and unfinished. As a stockholder, it looks great.

I hope the next major release will make me happy no matter which hat I'm wearing.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

jfh3 said:


> I give Tivo a qualified pass on this one - they clearly needed to get KidZone out ASAP, given the previous press releases on it. I'm sure they weighed the benefit of getting out such a substantive feature against the drawbacks of introducing a handful of annoying, but generally harmless (reboot notwithstanding) bugs.
> 
> But the UI bugs mentioned in this thread and elsewhere need to get fixed ASAP - Tivo's UI and rock-solid reputation for quality DVR control set it apart from the knockoffs. They can't afford to lose that reputation.


Why the rush for Kidzone? Sounds like the PR dept. wasn't talking with the development folks.

Is TiVo's problem that its founders have an engaging dream product (which they call a service) which they personally get off on but which can't quite achieve an adequate revenue flow and thus must constantly be tinkered with to add clever new revenue producing features. I wonder what percentage of TiVo's customers use each feature that TiVo offers?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

TiVo Troll said:


> Why the rush for Kidzone? Sounds like the PR dept. wasn't talking with the development folks.
> 
> Is TiVo's problem that its founders have an engaging dream product (which they call a service) which they personally get off on but which can't quite achieve an adequate revenue flow and thus must constantly be tinkered with to add clever new revenue producing features. I wonder what percentage of TiVo's customers use each feature that TiVo offers?


TiVo did the same thing when they rushed out the 7.1 release for TiVo ToGo assumably because the press release indicated it would be released by then. 7.1 was in no shape to be released when it was (it had horrible performance problems and playback issues), but it was released to everyone. All the issues were finally fixed in 7.1b (about 5 months later).

If people didn't abandon ship when 7.1 came out I don't see why they would for 7.3 which, from what I've read, isn't nearly as bad. To be fair, the ToGo functionality was probably more highly anticipated than the KidZone functionality.

The funny thing about PR is that there's no way to win. If you release a buggy product to meet some artificial marketing date, you get complaints. If you miss the release deadline (eg: Microsoft's Vista) you get complaints. Either way you get complaints. Personally I'm in the "it's done when it's done" camp, but as a software developer by profession I know this isn't always possible. In this case though, I don't see any reason why KidZone had to be released right now (just because it is Summer). Pushing it a few months wouldn't hurt anything, especially since most shows are on hiatus now anyway.


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## killme (May 9, 2004)

Concerning the 5-minute Guide "bug".. I like it because now I can start recording a show even if it starts within 5 minutes. Before I had to wait 5 minutes before I could record it because TiVo would change to the channel instead of letting me set up a recording for it. I hated this "feature" and much prefer it the way it is now. It's not that hard to hit the Fast Forward button.


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## Bimwad (Jul 4, 2005)

n1mie said:


> This IS a bug. What sense does it make to show me 11:30 programming data at 11:58? Crazy, stupid, waste of my time. I don't care what programs I missed, I care about what programs are getting ready to start!
> 
> Bug, please fix!


The Info panel is the full extension of the channel/time/program banner. As such, it reflects the program one is currently viewing. It is illogical, inconsistent, and confusing for the novice user to have that convention discarded only for the last five minutes of the hour (or even half-hour, I haven't noticed it then).

Info = see what's on now.
Guide = see what's on next.

Another annoying inconsistency is finding that the TiVo will automatically change the display preference of the bug/banner/full info panel to the last setting if Info is invoked more than a couple times. That's being a little _too_ helpful and forces one to reset the desired display unnecessarily.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

morac said:


> If people didn't abandon ship when 7.1 came out I don't see why they would for 7.3 which, from what I've read, isn't nearly as bad. To be fair, the ToGo functionality was probably more highly anticipated than the KidZone functionality.


Oh you're right there. Long-time users won't abandon ship because they know these issues will be resolved in the next few months and they know having a TiVo box that works properly eight or nine months/year is still better than anything else out there.

But if I were a new customer and I signed up for a several hundred dollar committment over the next few years and my shiny new box crashed, menu items didn't work, remote buttons didn't function etc. I'd bail out during the first 30 days while I could.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

morac said:


> The funny thing about PR is that there's no way to win. If you release a buggy product to meet some artificial marketing date, you get complaints. If you miss the release deadline (eg: Microsoft's Vista) you get complaints. Either way you get complaints. Personally I'm in the "it's done when it's done" camp, but as a software developer by profession I know this isn't always possible. In this case though, I don't see any reason why KidZone had to be released right now (just because it is Summer).


 Per their press release, almost 2/3 of parents and non-parents alike are concerned about what children are watching on television.

And, actually, according to their research, Summer is _exactly_ when it's needed most:



> Analysis of ratings data from Nielsen shows that actual daytime television viewership of children, ages 6  11, increases over 150 percent during the summer. In addition, adult and adult female viewing patterns during that time remain unchanged, implying that much of that increase in children's viewership is even more unsupervised than usual.


 TiVo still works, and _still_ does _more_ than other DVRs...

I saw someone here asking why TiVo even keeps adding to the software... I say to this person, do you even read these forums... People are continually asking TiVo for more features... 

I could just see the uproar now if TiVo stopped updating their software...


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## Leon WIlkinson (Feb 13, 2000)

I had the 7.3oth M3 on a 540 and 140 which received the 7.3oth 

The 540 when restarted to install the SW, it prepared for the install(this might take a few minutes) then it booted up to Installing of software (This could take 1 hour or more) then booted to restart

The 140 when restarted to install the SW, it prepared for the install(this might take a few minutes) then just boot with out the Installing. This caused the TiVo to go into a reboot cycle, which I stoped by unpluging it where the TiVo says powering up. 

I got into Sys Info before a reboot and it did say the new SW was running.


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

Has anybody else seen the issue where the Guide actually shows you the day AFTER whatever you select in "Guide Options" selection. This seems to only occur late at night (after midnight). If you hit "Guide" and "Info", the Guide Options screen will show _*yesterday's*_ date, but once you hit Select, it will show* today's* info. Here's an example from 2:23AM Monday:








-> hit select ->









Also, if you switch to another day in Guide Options and hit select, the Guide will show the data for the day _*after*_ the one you selected. This happens at least between midnight and 2:30AM. It seems to stop sometime in the morning. Could it be using PDT instead of EDT to update the day on the Guide Options screen?

Is anybody else seeing this behavior, or are my two Tivos the only broken ones?


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

TerpBE said:


> I just found another Tivo bug.
> 
> It's 2AM Monday, 6/19. I hit Guide and then info, and this it what it gives me:
> 
> ...


What kinda of TiVo do you have? I seriously don't like that guide format.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> What kinda of TiVo do you have? I seriously don't like that guide format.


 Note in the Guide options where it says "Style: Grid Guide"... this should be on all TiVo's, and has been around for quite some time...

People can choose between the "TiVo Live Guide" which is probably what you're using and like, and this "Grid Style" which others, like me and him, use and like...


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Stormspace said:


> What kinda of TiVo do you have? I seriously don't like that guide format.


There are two guide formats that you can select from by pressing the ENT key when guide is displayed. Switch them with the 'Syle:' option.
Roy


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

morac said:


> Normally TiVo won't stop a software release unless there is something majorly wrong with the core functionality. Practically all the problems mentioned have been cosmetic, which while annoying, won't prevent people from using the DVR functionality of the TiVo..
> 
> The only one that could possible halt the release would be the reboot issue, but since that doesn't occur for everyone and only occurs when viewing the recording history, TiVo may not consider it high enough in priority to halt the release.


I have lost parts of 4 recordings and my TiVo has rebooted atleast 6 times in one week. But atleast it isn't affecting 100% of the users though, right? Btw, there is more than one major crash issue if you read all of this thread. The other lockup issue has been around since 7.2.5a for DT units. I have little confidence all of these bugs will be fixed anytime soon. In fact, some of the navigation issues have been around since the last major release. So we are suppose to sit on our hands for the next 5 months while our TiVos are rebooting, locking up and losing recordings?


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

rainwater said:


> I have lost parts of 4 recordings and my TiVo has rebooted atleast 6 times in one week. But atleast it isn't affecting 100% of the users though, right? Btw, there is more than one major crash issue if you read all of this thread. The other lockup issue has been around since 7.2.5a for DT units. I have little confidence all of these bugs will be fixed anytime soon. In fact, some of the navigation issues have been around since the last major release. So we are suppose to sit on our hands for the next 5 months while our TiVos are rebooting, locking up and losing recordings?


Guess it could be worse - 
From slashdot.org "A laptop reported to be a Dell burst into flame and was caught on camera during a recent Japanese conference. "

http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/06/06/21/1448207.shtml


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## Haxx (Feb 25, 2003)

I don't understand why they are still rolling out the release when there are known cases of reboots and/or (partial) show deletions. It sounds like some of the more serious problems (however sporadic) have been acknowledged.

I for one, am usually happy to try out some of their new features/rollouts. But this one sounds too much of a problem and I would rather keep my existing known functionality until they at least work out the more serious issues.

Can someone from TiVo respond as to why/if they are still rolling this out and if there's a way to refuse this particular rev. and wait for the "new and improved/fixed" rev. when it's available.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

rainwater said:


> I have little confidence all of these bugs will be fixed anytime soon. In fact, some of the navigation issues have been around since the last major release. So we are suppose to sit on our hands for the next 5 months while our TiVos are rebooting, locking up and losing recordings?


Not sure why you think the bugs won't be addressed, but as far as sitting on your hands - of course not.

But don't use this forum as your only outlet - if you see bugs, call Tivo support and report them. I'm sure the ones with the most customer calls will get the most (and fastest) attention/priority.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> Not sure why you think the bugs won't be addressed, but as far as sitting on your hands - of course not.
> 
> But don't use this forum as your only outlet - if you see bugs, call Tivo support and report them. I'm sure the ones with the most customer calls will get the most (and fastest) attention/priority.


I reported the lockup issue directly to tivo the first week I had my DT (7.2.5a). It has also been confirmed by other users on this board.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

mchips said:


> Note in the Guide options where it says "Style: Grid Guide"... this should be on all TiVo's, and has been around for quite some time...
> 
> People can choose between the "TiVo Live Guide" which is probably what you're using and like, and this "Grid Style" which others, like me and him, use and like...


It something I never thought to change because I liked the format so well. With the "TiVo Live Guide" as you call it I can see what's coming on way in advance without scrolling to the right. It makes more sense to me because there is more vertical space on the screen to display upcoming shows. Of course looking at it the other way would give you everything at that time, so I guess it's all what you need.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

rainwater said:


> I have lost parts of 4 recordings and my TiVo has rebooted atleast 6 times in one week. But atleast it isn't affecting 100% of the users though, right? Btw, there is more than one major crash issue if you read all of this thread. The other lockup issue has been around since 7.2.5a for DT units. I have little confidence all of these bugs will be fixed anytime soon. In fact, some of the navigation issues have been around since the last major release. So we are suppose to sit on our hands for the next 5 months while our TiVos are rebooting, locking up and losing recordings?


The 7.2.5a reboot issue not withstanding (since that wasn't introduced in 7.3), the only other reboot issue is going into the Recording History screen. I'm not sure about you but I don't go into that screen very often. In any case since you are aware that going into that screen will cause the TiVo to reboot, perhaps you shouldn't go into the screen while the TiVo is recording until TiVo fixes the problem.

The 7.2.5a reboot issue is a pre-existing problem. Halting the rollout of 7.3 won't solve that problem.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

morac said:


> The 7.2.5a reboot issue not withstanding (since that wasn't introduced in 7.3), the only other reboot issue is going into the Recording History screen. I'm not sure about you but I don't go into that screen very often. In any case since you are aware that going into that screen will cause the TiVo to reboot, perhaps you shouldn't go into the screen while the TiVo is recording until TiVo fixes the problem.
> 
> The 7.2.5a reboot issue is a pre-existing problem. Halting the rollout of 7.3 won't solve that problem.


Don'tcha think it might have made sense to fix a known fatal flaw in a previous version before releasing a new one?

Good grief.


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## n1mie (May 29, 2006)

Bimwad said:


> The Info panel is the full extension of the channel/time/program banner. As such, it reflects the program one is currently viewing. It is illogical, inconsistent, and confusing for the novice user to have that convention discarded only for the last five minutes of the hour (or even half-hour, I haven't noticed it then).
> 
> Info = see what's on now.
> Guide = see what's on next.
> ...


I WAS talking about the Guide. I want to see what's up and coming in the guide ... but at 11:58 it shows me what is about to be over not what is up and coming (which it used to do before this lame-o update).


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Don'tcha think it might have made sense to fix a known fatal flaw in a previous version before releasing a new one?
> 
> Good grief.


Chill. The reboot problem is most likely in the common code base between 7.2.x and 7.3. Given the timing of the releases, it's pretty likely they were developed in parallel.

The reboot problem is annoying, but certainly not "fatal". Tivo has said they are looking into it - I'm sure they'll get it fixed. But it's also an intermittent problem and those are the toughest kinds to find/debug.

You need something pretty big to warrant halting a rollout. As annoying as some of the 7.2.5/7.3 bugs are, none of them qualify, though if the reboot bug becomes more prevelent, that might.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> Chill. The reboot problem is most likely in the common code base between 7.2.x and 7.3. Given the timing of the releases, it's pretty likely they were developed in parallel.
> 
> The reboot problem is annoying, but certainly not "fatal". Tivo has said they are looking into it - I'm sure they'll get it fixed. But it's also an intermittent problem and those are the toughest kinds to find/debug.
> 
> You need something pretty big to warrant halting a rollout. As annoying as some of the 7.2.5/7.3 bugs are, none of them qualify, though if the reboot bug becomes more prevelent, that might.


A bug that causes a computer to crash (and that's what happens when it reboots) is by definition fatal. AFAIC its "pretty big"


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

RoyK said:


> A bug that causes a computer to crash (and that's what happens when it reboots) is by definition fatal. AFAIC its "pretty big"


By the technical definition, yes, it's a fatal bug. But it's intermittent and not "fatal" enough to render the Tivos unusable.

And it's still not big enough to stop the rollout. Heck, if the rule of thumb was you shouldn't ship any software if there was an intermittent fatal error, Windows (any flavor) would've never shipped.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> By the technical definition, yes, it's a fatal bug. But it's intermittent and not "fatal" enough to render the Tivos unusable.
> 
> And it's still not big enough to stop the rollout. Heck, if the rule of thumb was you shouldn't ship any software if there was an intermittent fatal error, Windows (any flavor) would've never shipped.


"Usable" isn't good enough. Heck my first car was usable but it sure wasn't a pleasure to drive.


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## MultimediaJones (Jan 3, 2004)

Contrary to what one person keeps saying in this thread repeatedly, as though if said enough it will become true, there is no good reason to continue rolling out a release with this many known bugs. Most of these bug reports were out by at least June 16, and one of my TiVos got this garbage release today, June 21. I hadn't been to the forum in a few weeks, but within 30 minutes of the surprise (to me) update I'd found several of the bugs then come to the forum to see what was known. 

Especially cumbersome are the To-Do list bugs like the loss of clear key function, the list popping back to a totally different week after deleting one to-do entry, and of course the sometimes truncated to-do list which has been around since 7.2 or 7.1 (easiest way around this one has in the past been to view upcoming eps of a given show, delete/readd one, then the whole to-do list gets refreshed upon return and will usually then be complete). Maybe for someone with 10 season passes the to-do list is a toy or novelty. For some heavy TiVo users it is a necessary part of balancing lots of conflicting scheduling issues.

The other reason that the apologist mentality of some on this 'upgrade' is pathetic is that the company didn't have a bug in the new feature, rather the version breaks basic and obvious functionality, has apparently increased reboot problems and loss of shows, and shows signs that developers unnecessarily tinkered (removing the temperature display - why even mess with the code for the already buried sys info screen). The rollout could have clearly been halted or paused until issues were fixed, and Summer vacation is no reason to force crap down the throats of paying customers who try to be TiVos best advocates when the company isn't shooting itself in the foot by p*ssing us off and making itself look as incompetent as the competition.

I want 7.2.2b back NOW and clearly do many others, and do NOT need any more of this 'progress is more important than reliability' nonsense. By all means bring new features when there is a release that can do so without causing many new problems. Case in point, the upgrade that added 'recently deleted' functionality, where the only thing that I found changed (at least on my 240s) was what was supposed to change.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

morac said:


> The 7.2.5a reboot issue not withstanding (since that wasn't introduced in 7.3), the only other reboot issue is going into the Recording History screen. I'm not sure about you but I don't go into that screen very often. In any case since you are aware that going into that screen will cause the TiVo to reboot, perhaps you shouldn't go into the screen while the TiVo is recording until TiVo fixes the problem.
> 
> The 7.2.5a reboot issue is a pre-existing problem. Halting the rollout of 7.3 won't solve that problem.


Whether the issue was introduced in 7.3 or not, it still exists. I could care less when it was introduced. Hitting livetv should not lock up your TV. If you think that is a rare occurence, I would say you are mistaken.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> You need something pretty big to warrant halting a rollout. As annoying as some of the 7.2.5/7.3 bugs are, none of them qualify, though if the reboot bug becomes more prevelent, that might.


You mean like hitting LiveTV and locking up the system? That's not enough to warrant fixing before release? Or are DT users not worthy enough users to care about?


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## Hollywood49 (May 28, 2006)

Great, my wireless network adapter hasn't worked since the "update"

Naturally, when I check the network settings, right beside "Failed No Network Adapter" sits this:

Network connection details:
Type: Wireless adapter
Name: *wirelessname*
Signal: 77% (good)


Yeah, it fails to recognize the network adapter (Tivo tells me that it isn't even plugged in), yet somehow I have 77% signal. Go figure


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

NewbieInTheATL said:


> I always have the current time displayed in the bottom right corner of the screen using the SPS9S code. Now, during playback or live TV when I hit a button to display the time bar (e.g. play, pause, ff, rw) the location of the current time shifts from the bottom right of the screen (i.e. below the time bar) to just above the time bar. Not a huge deal but a bug nonetheless.


Actually I'd say that was a deliberate change. The onscreen clock and ETI used to have glitches and they're all gone from what I see, so it looks like someone cleaned up the code and added the behavior to keep it visible.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> By the technical definition, yes, it's a fatal bug. But it's intermittent and not "fatal" enough to render the Tivos unusable.
> 
> And it's still not big enough to stop the rollout. Heck, if the rule of thumb was you shouldn't ship any software if there was an intermittent fatal error, Windows (any flavor) would've never shipped.


God what an absurd statement!


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

rainwater said:


> Whether the issue was introduced in 7.3 or not, it still exists. I could care less when it was introduced. Hitting livetv should not lock up your TV. If you think that is a rare occurrence, I would say you are mistaken.


I don't have a DT so I can't argue with how often this occurs. My point is that the reboot issue would occur whether you have 7.2.5 or 7.3, so halting the upgrade to 7.3 because there is a reboot problem in 7.2.5 doesn't make any sense. There are arguably reasons to halt the 7.3 release, but this isn't one of them.

Now if you say that 7.3 should have never been released until the reboot issue from 7.2.5 was fixed, I have to say that is not realistic. First off the vast majority of users don't have a DT TiVo so they aren't affected by that bug. Delaying a release of a new software version until a fix is put in that affects less than 10% of your user base doesn't make sense from a company standpoint. Second, what is the difference if they release a 7.3.1 that fixes the reboot issue a month from now or if they delayed 7.3 for a month and included the fix in that? (Answer there is none). Asking TiVo to delay 7.3 because it doesn't fix an issue in 7.2.5 would be like asking Microsoft to not release any patches until they can release one giant patch to fix every problem in Windows. It's not realistic.

I understand that the problem is frustrating, but it is not a 7.3 issue and therefore has nothing to do with the 7.3 release at all.



RoyK said:


> A bug that causes a computer to crash (and that's what happens when it reboots) is by definition fatal. AFAIC its "pretty big"


In the software industry, there are four main things that determine how critical a bug is. How much of an inconvenience it is, is it a security/safety issue, how often it occurs and if there is a work around.

In the case of the worst bug introduced in 7.3, rebooting is a major inconvenience, but it doesn't happen often and there is a work around. Relatively speaking, having the TiVo reboot, when the user does something specific, while not a trivial bug, isn't that major of an issue. Something that would be considered major would be if the TiVo rebooted every time you hit the Now Playing button or it burst into flames when it first booted up.

I'm not making excuse for TiVo for releasing 7.3 with bugs in it and I'm not happy that they did, I'm just explaining the reasoning behind why they would release 7.3 as is and not halt the release now.

That said, I'd be happy if they halted the release of 7.3 because, as it is, I don't want it.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

morac said:


> In the software industry, there are four main things that determine how critical a bug is. How much of an inconvenience it is, is it a security/safety issue, how often it occurs and if there is a work around.


We're talking about more than the software industry here - we're talking about the entertainment industry. When a product that was purchased for its enhancement of one's entertainment becomes a major annoyance instead then it has become defective. That is critical IMHO. TiVo boxes are used by laymen and women. Try to tell my wife that its OK because there are workarounds and see what you hear from her.



morac said:


> That said, I'd be happy if they halted the release of 7.3 because, as it is, I don't want it.


At least we agree on that.

Roy


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## aus1ander (Sep 17, 2004)

I apologize if this has already been mentioned:

In the To Do List, there is no longer a warning on the main page when a program may be clipped. Before, there would be a black box at the bottom and a * next to the program that would get clipped. The warning is still maintained on the program information screen for the clipped program.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

aus1ander said:


> I apologize if this has already been mentioned:
> 
> In the To Do List, there is no longer a warning on the main page when a program may be clipped. Before, there would be a black box at the bottom and a * next to the program that would get clipped. The warning is still maintained on the program information screen for the clipped program.


I don't believe its been mentioned. Thanks.


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## aus1ander (Sep 17, 2004)

In the To Do List, when you manually delete a program (because the Clear button no longer works), it returns you to the top of the To Do List instead of the most recent position when initiating the delete. This is annoying if there are 4 scheduled programs you want to delete bunched together a couple of pages down on the To Do List.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

morac said:


> I understand that the problem is frustrating, but it is not a 7.3 issue and therefore has nothing to do with the 7.3 release at all.


Ok, I have no clue what that is suppose to mean. If you have a S2 DT and hit live tv from a recorded program, then you will get random lockups. I have lost parts of several programs over the last week because of this. This occurs in 7.3. This is a issue with 7.3 whether you think it is or not. If you think its ok to lose recordings and that isn't a major issue because it doesn't affect you, well I'm sorry. I get the feeling TiVo feels the same way. Does that mean TiVo is going to pay me for the poor service that I am going to receive for the next 5 months until they fix this issue? I can no longer even count on my TiVo staying up long enough to record a program. But it's not a major issue for you I guess.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

rainwater said:


> Ok, I have no clue what that is suppose to mean. If you have a S2 DT and hit live tv from a recorded program, then you will get random lockups. I have lost parts of several programs over the last week because of this. This occurs in 7.3. This is a issue with 7.3 whether you think it is or not. If you think its ok to lose recordings and that isn't a major issue because it doesn't affect you, well I'm sorry. I get the feeling TiVo feels the same way. Does that mean TiVo is going to pay me for the poor service that I am going to receive for the next 5 months until they fix this issue? I can no longer even count on my TiVo staying up long enough to record a program. But it's not a major issue for you I guess.


I don't think morac was addressing this particular problem in that post(it appeared to me he was speaking of the reboot in ToDo list problem which was in 7.2.5), so lighten up on him a little. Perhaps he simply missed the reference to the 'hit live tv from a recorded program causes reboots' issue you mentioned and would have addressed it if he had seen it.

In any event, just as an additional datapoint, I don't have this particular issue on my DT. I can hit livetv from anywhere in the TiVo interface without a problem. I do have most of the other described DT-specific issues. I do not look in my ToDo list often, and I am not aware of rebooting issues elsewhere in my TiVo.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

rainwater said:


> Ok, I have no clue what that is suppose to mean. If you have a S2 DT and hit live tv from a recorded program, then you will get random lockups. I have lost parts of several programs over the last week because of this. This occurs in 7.3. This is a issue with 7.3 whether you think it is or not. If you think its ok to lose recordings and that isn't a major issue because it doesn't affect you, well I'm sorry. I get the feeling TiVo feels the same way. Does that mean TiVo is going to pay me for the poor service that I am going to receive for the next 5 months until they fix this issue? I can no longer even count on my TiVo staying up long enough to record a program. But it's not a major issue for you I guess.


 The point I think he was trying to make was that you may have said that you experienced these reboot/freeze issues prior to 7.3, and if so, then why should 7.3 have been held up because of issues you were having with 7.2.5a... i.e., according to you, the reboot/freezes you were having were not introduced with 7.3...

Which, btw, I have not experienced any of the reboot/freeze issues that you are... I have five TiVo's, all are networked, three of which are DT's, all of which now have 7.3, and I have not experienced a single reboot or freeze...


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

mchips said:


> The point I think he was trying to make was that you may have said that you experienced these reboot/freeze issues prior to 7.3, and if so, then why should 7.3 have been held up because of issues you were having with 7.2.5a... i.e., according to you, the reboot/freezes you were having were not introduced with 7.3...
> 
> Which, btw, I have not experienced any of the reboot/freeze issues that you are... I have five TiVo's, all are networked, three of which are DT's, all of which now have 7.3, and I have not experienced a single reboot or freeze...


Well, the point about what version is started with is irrelevent. Whether it was introduced in 7.3 or not, if it causes the TiVo to lockup, then it is an issue that should halt a release.

Also, if you record long programs like me (sporting events), you will see this issue a lot. It is clearly a software issue as the TiVo tries to change channels/tuners when hitting livetv even though it should never do that. You are lucky none of your DT's lockup. I am not that lucky however. I guess if it doesn't affect 100% of the users, then its not a big deal then.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

rainwater said:


> I guess if it doesn't affect 100% of the users, then its not a big deal then.


Sarcasm is not generally recognized as a highly effective way to get bugs fixed. Careful testing and reporting is. If some users can't reproduce it, how do you know that it can be reproduced in the lab? Perhaps it's a unique combination of factors above and beyond just the software version. I'm not asking for details of your conversations with TiVo, but for us users here in the forum and any employees monitoring the thread, perhaps it would help to describe, in as great a detail as possible, your setup and steps you take to get the resultant lockup/reboots? I imagine that could be very helpful to anyone working on the problem, both TiVo coders and end-users also affected.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

gonzotek said:


> Sarcasm is not generally recognized as a highly effective way to get bugs fixed. Careful testing and reporting is. If some users can't reproduce it, how do you know that it can be reproduced in the lab? Perhaps it's a unique combination of factors above and beyond just the software version. I'm not asking for details of your conversations with TiVo, but for us users here in the forum and any employees monitoring the thread, perhaps it would help to describe, in as great a detail as possible, your setup and steps you take to get the resultant lockup/reboots? I imagine that could be very helpful to anyone working on the problem, both TiVo coders and end-users also affected.


First off, I dont' care if sarcasm works or not. This forum is not the place to report bugs. I would never think that any type of bug reporting on this forum will ever been seen and be addressed by a Tivo employee. I have already provided a detailed bug report to TiVo and it has already been seen by other users. It is not a bug specific to my box.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

rainwater said:


> Well, the point about what version is started with is irrelevent. Whether it was introduced in 7.3 or not, if it causes the TiVo to lockup, then it is an issue that should halt a release.


 Not really... because if it's an issue in both releases, halting it is not going to make any difference... If it's there in 7.2.5a, halting 7.3 isn't going to stop it... it's there either way... so that can't be an argument for stopping 7.3, because it seems to actually be an issue with 7.2.5a that isn't fixed with 7.3 on your box(es)... so, just because 7.3 doesn't allegedly fix it, that's no cause to stop 7.3...

i.e., Look at it this way... if you could go back to 7.2.5a, would your reboot/freeze issues stop? If not, then your reboot/freeze issue isn't cause to stop 7.3, because your issue was already there in 7.2.5a...

That's the point he was trying to make, that a couple of us at least seem to understand...


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

rainwater said:


> First off, I dont' care if sarcasm works or not. This forum is not the place to report bugs. I would never think that any type of bug reporting on this forum will ever been seen and be addressed by a Tivo employee. I have already provided a detailed bug report to TiVo and it has already been seen by other users. It is not a bug specific to my box.


The thread title is '7.3 Bug List'. Sounds like a place to report them to me. I didn't say it was specific to your box and your box alone, only that a combination of factors may be at play that may make diagnosing the issue more complicated. Using the tools we have as a community(namely the forum) we might be able to help pinpoint what is happening and how it might be fixed. See the numerous efforts made by TiVoJerry, Pony, and OpsMgr requesting more data on various issues for examples of how the forum has been instrumental in producing data that led to software fixes.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

mchips said:


> Not really... because if it's an issue in both releases, halting it is not going to make any difference... If it's there in 7.2.5a, halting 7.3 isn't going to stop it... it's there either way... so that can't be an argument for stopping 7.3, because it seems to actually be an issue with 7.2.5a that isn't fixed with 7.3 on your box(es)... so, just because 7.3 doesn't allegedly fix it, that's no cause to stop 7.3...
> 
> i.e., Look at it this way... if you could go back to 7.2.5a, would your reboot/freeze issues stop? If not, then your reboot/freeze issue isn't cause to stop 7.3, because your issue was already there in 7.2.5a...
> 
> That's the point he was trying to make, that a couple of us at least seem to understand...


7.2.5a was made available before any of the boxes were even shipped. There's no way they could stop the release. Crash and lockups are always critical bugs that should never make it through testing. So 7.3 shouldn't be released until all ciritical bugs are fixed. There will be no bug fix releases to 7.2.5a so when do you expect a fix? By 10.0? Or because it was in 7.2.5a it will never be a critical bug. I'm not sure what the reasoning is there.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

rainwater said:


> 7.2.5a was made available before any of the boxes were even shipped.


Maybe I am mistaken and apologies if so, I can't find a definite answer on when 7.2.5a was first made available, but I thought that 7.2.5 was the shipping version and 7.2.5a was released a week or two after units had begun shipping


> There's no way they could stop the release. Crash and lockups are always critical bugs that should never make it through testing. So 7.3 shouldn't be released until all ciritical bugs are fixed. There will be no bug fix releases to 7.2.5a so when do you expect a fix? By 10.0? Or because it was in 7.2.5a it will never be a critical bug. I'm not sure what the reasoning is there.


The bug(only referring here to 'reboot at todo list') was in 7.2.5a. 
Preventing a unit with 7.2.5a from upgrading would not prevent the bug from occurring. That's it. Its criticality or timeline to fix wasn't being addressed by morac, only the fact that keeping 7.3 from installing to a box would not have helped that particular problem since the box already exhibited the undesired behavior. As he said, there are (several..many?) other valid reasons why one would want the release not to download, but that isn't one. You'd still be having the issue today.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

gonzotek said:


> Maybe I am mistaken and apologies if so, I can't find a definite answer on when 7.2.5a was first made available, but I thought that 7.2.5 was the shipping version and 7.2.5a was released a week or two after units had begun shipping
> The bug(only referring here to 'reboot at todo list') was in 7.2.5a.
> Preventing a unit with 7.2.5a from upgrading would not prevent the bug from occurring. That's it. Its criticality or timeline to fix wasn't being addressed by morac, only the fact that keeping 7.3 from installing to a box would not have helped that particular problem since the box already exhibited the undesired behavior. As he said, there are (several..many?) other valid reasons why one would want the release not to download, but that isn't one. You'd still be having the issue today.


You may be correct. The fact remains that 7.3 was released without fixing at least one known fatal bug (the one under discussion here). Many if not all of the other bugs reported here are so reproducable and quickly encountered that it is difficult for me to believe other than the software was released with full knowledge of their existance also. KidZone deadline or not there is no excuse for knowingly shipping crap and that what TiVo has done with 7.3. It needs to stop NOW.


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## zebo51 (Jun 2, 2006)

I have seen a few posts of users wishing they had not gotten the 7.3 update or are dreading getting it. Common sense says disconnect your phone line or network connection to keep your box from updating as I have . Seems pretty simple or am I missing something? 

I am a new Tivo user, for about a month now. I am not a heavy user, so I don't know all the features/functions very well yet. Am I missing out on other stuff by not letting my box connect to the internet? I think I remember reading somewhere that your channel guides/listings aren't dependant upon connecting back to Tivo. 

Oh, by the way I have the S2DT. It came with ver 7.2.5 I believe and that is what I still have, or maybe 7.2.5a. Anyway I know I don't have 7.3. The only bug I have noticed is using TTG and programs not having audio once transferred to my PC. I read it was suppose to be fixed in 7.3 but a few others noted that 7.3 did not fix it. I did open a case and they said it was because of my codec and told me to contact them. I took it with a grain of salt, tried a few other codecs, even tranferred files to a PC with no codecs, then moved that file to my other PC with a supported codec and still the same issue with recordings have no sound. So this leads me to believe it is not a codec issue.

90% of software programs out there do not update automatically in my experience if not more. Whether it is Microsoft, Adobe, etc etc they all prompt you that there are updates and it is your choice. Or if they don't do auto checks, you have to manually apply updates. I think this would be a great feature for Tivo to implement. That way users that are happy with a version or the way their Tivo is working don't wake up one morning to find their product working completely different.

Sorry I know this thread is for 7.3 bugs and I might have gone off on a tangent , but for those of you following this, prevent your Tivo from updating for now unless there are other reasons a Tivo box might need to be plugged into the network all the time.

PS I also am a firm believer that this release should have been retracted once users starting reporting some of these issues


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## alansplace (Apr 30, 2006)

zebo51 said:


> Common sense says disconnect your phone line or network connection to keep your box from updating as I have . Seems pretty simple or am I missing something?
> 
> I am a new Tivo user, for about a month now. I am not a heavy user, so I don't know all the features/functions very well yet. Am I missing out on other stuff by not letting my box connect to the internet? I think I remember reading somewhere that your channel guides/listings aren't dependant upon connecting back to Tivo.


no, you read something wrong. after two weeks you will no longer have any program info.
--
Alan


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## zebo51 (Jun 2, 2006)

alansplace said:


> no, you read something wrong. after two weeks you will no longer have any program info.
> --
> Alan


DOH, I guess I will plug it back in then. Dang. How about then if I just plug it in for a hour or so in the evening? I also remember seeing that it does it updates at night and reboots around 2am or am I confused again?

Thanks Alan and glad to see you spell your name correctly


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## gconnery (Mar 31, 2006)

Oddly, it only seems slower on my original Series 2 unit, not on my DT. Both have the Kidzone update on them now.


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## alansplace (Apr 30, 2006)

zebo51 said:


> DOH, I guess I will plug it back in then. Dang. How about then if I just plug it in for a hour or so in the evening? I also remember seeing that it does it updates at night and reboots around 2am or am I confused again?
> 
> Thanks Alan and glad to see you spell your name correctly


my parents picked the spelling, i just spell it the way they taught me!!

you might force a noontime connection once a week and keep it unconnected the rest of the time. but i really don't know how accurate your info about it not doing updates during the day is.

perhaps someone else knows the answer to that.
--
Alan


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## zebo51 (Jun 2, 2006)

alansplace said:


> my parents picked the spelling, i just spell it the way they taught me!!
> 
> you might force a noontime connection once a week and keep it unconnected the rest of the time. but i really don't know how accurate your info about it not doing updates during the day is.
> 
> ...


Well before all these bugs starting being reported, I was all for getting 7.3 since I read it was suppose to fix the no audio after using TTG, but I never filled out the priority to get kidzone. I did force a connection a few times and never got the 7.3 update.

Man I really don't want 7.3, but I guess I need my listings to be current.


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## gtrogue (Jun 18, 2001)

Bimwad said:


> If this is true, I'm glad they changed it. That's how it should work IMO. I always found the previous arrangement odd.


Me too. I hope they keep it this way.

I've been travelling a lot so I haven't spent much time with my Tivo's lately but I can tell you something that has recently popped up and annoys the hell out me.
It used to be that if you began watching a show from Now Playing while you had groups turned on when you finished watching and went back to Now Playing you were still inside the group. Now you get dumped out into the full Now Playing list. It's very annoying.


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## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

gtrogue said:


> It used to be that if you began watching a show from Now Playing while you had groups turned on when you finished watching and went back to Now Playing you were still inside the group. Now you get dumped out into the full Now Playing list. It's very annoying.


Yeah..it's a bug that's been brought up a few times. First occured in 7.2 version. It starts after transferring a show via PC->Tivo. It stops after a tivo reboot...although it will start again after the next transfer.


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## sabowin (Feb 3, 2003)

Stu_Bee said:


> gtrogue said:
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted by gtrogue
> ...


My TiVo rebooted last night, and still did that afterwards, even though I haven't done a transfer since the reboot. It's annoying, but not a huge deal to me, as I usually move to a different show anyway, rather than watching a "marathon" of one show.


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

Had 7.3 on my DT when I got home last night. 

One thing I noticed that I have not seen reported is that I am not always getting the auto-delete option that you are supposed to get when you stop watching a program when less than 5 minutes remains. Instead of being given the option to delete/not delete, I am getting sent back to the full program information screen -- even if there is only 1 minute left of the recording. Seems to be an intermittent problem -- I watched a couple recordings and sometimes it worked properly, sometimes not. This is not critical, but I do find it pretty annoying and I would call it a bug. 

I was able use Recording History without a reboot (a relief, since I use that functionality a lot). Does anyone know if the RH-reboot bug is intermittent on the DTs, or if the affected boxes always reboot? 

Also I know I saw a mention of this somewhere but I can't seem to find it now -- how do I get to the extra program info screen (with the OAD, etc.) now? Used to get there if you pressed "display" but now it doesn't work. Not sure if that's a bug or an intentional change, but it's really annoying.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Ruth said:


> Had 7.3 on my DT when I got home last night.
> 
> One thing I noticed that I have not seen reported is that I am not always getting the auto-delete option that you are supposed to get when you stop watching a program when less than 5 minutes remains. Instead of being given the option to delete/not delete, I am getting sent back to the full program information screen -- even if there is only 1 minute left of the recording. Seems to be an intermittent problem -- I watched a couple recordings and sometimes it worked properly, sometimes not. This is not critical, but I do find it pretty annoying and I would call it a bug.


This may be related to another issue. If you watch a program while its still being recorded the recording icon is shown even when the recording is over. And when you exit and the end of the recording it will not ask you to delete it.


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

rainwater said:


> This may be related to another issue. If you watch a program while its still being recorded the recording icon is shown even when the recording is over. And when you exit and the end of the recording it will not ask you to delete it.


Hmm. Maybe that explains the intermittent nature of the problem I am seeing? The shows that didn't bring up the delete screen might have been in progress when I started watching (they certainly weren't when they ended, though). I just don't remember. I'll try and see if I can reproduce this with an older recording, or if its just the in-progress ones.

Also, when I did get the delete screen, and chose to delete, the program was still listed in NP for a second after it dumped me back there. Then there was a screen redraw and it disappeared. Again not a critical issue, but clunky. The UI in this release just seems less seamless overall.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

alansplace said:


> you might force a noontime connection once a week and keep it unconnected the rest of the time. but i really don't know how accurate your info about it not doing updates during the day is.
> 
> perhaps someone else knows the answer to that.
> --
> Alan


Like someone mentioned, if you don't allow your TiVo to call out it won't get guide data and in 2 weeks it will stop scheduling programs. Some time after that it will basically cease to function until it is allowed to phone home.

Forcing a connection (at any time of the day) will download the listings and, if your TiVo has been authorized, download the software. Once the software has been downloaded there is no way to prevent it from being installed short of unplugging your TiVo and then never plugging it in again (which isn't very useful).

Basically there is no way (short of hacking the TiVo's software) to prevent the software upgrade if you want a working TiVo.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

rainwater said:


> You mean like hitting LiveTV and locking up the system? That's not enough to warrant fixing before release? Or are DT users not worthy enough users to care about?


I haven't been able to reproduce that problem on my DT.

If that's widespread, I'd consider that a fatal problem that would beg the question of "do we stop the rollout?"

I have to believe there are folks at Tivo that monitor trends and problem reports. We've seen that they will stop a rollout, at least to certain subsets of the user base (e.g. the recent network adapter issues) if condititions warrant.

Does anyone really think that Tivo has changed direction?


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Ruth said:


> Had 7.3 on my DT when I got home last night.
> 
> One thing I noticed that I have not seen reported is that I am not always getting the auto-delete option that you are supposed to get when you stop watching a program when less than 5 minutes remains. Instead of being given the option to delete/not delete, I am getting sent back to the full program information screen -- even if there is only 1 minute left of the recording. Seems to be an intermittent problem -- I watched a couple recordings and sometimes it worked properly, sometimes not. This is not critical, but I do find it pretty annoying and I would call it a bug.


If I understand your description correctly, this is working as designed if you have KidZone enabled.

If KZ is not enabled, then it's a bug.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> Does anyone really think that Tivo has changed direction?


Yes


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## zebo51 (Jun 2, 2006)

morac said:


> Like someone mentioned, if you don't allow your TiVo to call out it won't get guide data and in 2 weeks it will stop scheduling programs. Some time after that it will basically cease to function until it is allowed to phone home.
> 
> Forcing a connection (at any time of the day) will download the listings and, if your TiVo has been authorized, download the software. Once the software has been downloaded there is no way to prevent it from being installed short of unplugging your TiVo and then never plugging it in again (which isn't very useful).
> 
> Basically there is no way (short of hacking the TiVo's software) to prevent the software upgrade if you want a working TiVo.


Yep, got my schedule updates last night and another surprise . My house is already surrounded by woods and I have enough bugs and I hate it when they get in the house. The only thing I can confirm right away is the sluggish guide navigation.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> rainwater said:
> 
> 
> > You mean like hitting LiveTV and locking up the system? That's not enough to warrant fixing before release? Or are DT users not worthy enough users to care about?
> ...


I also tried to reproduce this, several times over last night, and could not.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

RoyK said:


> jfh3 said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone really think that Tivo has changed direction?
> ...


Well, I think it's obvious who will be saying "yes" and who will be saying "no"... 

The age-old glass half-full vs. half-empty...

Of course I will be saying "no."

While I agree there are bugs, it isn't as bad as some people in this thread are trying to make it out to be, thereby unnecessarily throwing some people into a panic who haven't received the update yet...

I agree that I would like to see these bugs fixed, and I believe they will be, but don't agree that they're as obtrusive as some would like everyone to think... even with these bugs, TiVo is still leaps and bounds beyond any other DVR...

I believe I've already stated this, but I can't reproduce the freezes/reboots either...


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

mchips said:


> Well, I think it's obvious who will be saying "yes" and who will be saying "no"...
> 
> I agree that I would like to see these bugs fixed, and I believe they will be, but don't agree that they're as obtrusive as some would like everyone to think... even with these bugs, TiVo is still leaps and bounds beyond any other DVR...


I'm sure that they will be fixed eventually and yes I agree that TiVo is leaps and bounds beyond any other DVR. Where we differ is that for me eventually isn't good enough.

The bugs are not subtle ones, at worst they are fatal and at best quite annoying. Routine quality control measures certainly must have exposed most of them before the decision to release the software was made -- most probably because of marketing pressure to add the new KidZone feature.

When asked when the defective software will be fixed and a new version released we are being told that people are working hard to make the repairs and there will be another update "soon".

IMHO the proper time for the hard work was BEFORE the release not afterwards.

My 'yes' response to the question "Does anyone really think that TiVo has changed direction?" refers to a perception on my part and others that the company once known for quality software and a fantastic user experience now has adopted a mentality of shipping out something new to gain attention, let the chips fall where they may and then do damage control.

This is a slap in the face to the customer base and needs to be stopped in its tracks.

Roy


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

rainwater said:


> 7.2.5a was made available before any of the boxes were even shipped. There's no way they could stop the release. Crash and lockups are always critical bugs that should never make it through testing. So 7.3 shouldn't be released until all ciritical bugs are fixed. There will be no bug fix releases to 7.2.5a so when do you expect a fix? By 10.0? Or because it was in 7.2.5a it will never be a critical bug. I'm not sure what the reasoning is there.


the point is simply - you have found a situation on your box where there is a lockup. A small percentage of others have found the same problem.

This problem seems to have been there since you got the DT. You say you have given TiVo a detailed bug report on this, we can only hope others who experience it do the same. That bug will get priority on their bug list - I would imagine it goes high on the list since it is functionality lost. 
Obviously they have not found the fix to it yet as you say it is not in 7.3 - since they have not found the fix, I would imagine any developer or analyst asked for a time estimate will be necessarily vaugue on how long to fix it.
They will say, stopping the rollout of 7.3 will do nothing to prevent the bug, stopping the rollout of 7.3 will not increase the time to find the fix adn in fact may decrease the time as we get more reports on the behavior under 7.3.

and to all - what makes you think TiVo is not working on an update in parrallel with this rollout. This is shades of TiVoToGo rollout, the feature is released, some known bugs are worked on *and some bugs that just do not surface until a wider group has the update(read prioroity list) - those can be fixed as well and rolled into one patch followup*
this is a standard plan for deploying mass consumed software, especially software that interacts with hardware as much as TiVo does. So complain away all you want but you just mask the real, useful data in noise.

( NOTE - I also have one and have not come across this despite recording 3 hour hockey games and going to live TV)


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> and to all - what makes you think TiVo is not working on an update in parrallel with this rollout. This is shades of TiVoToGo rollout, the feature is released, some known bugs are worked on *and some bugs that just do not surface until a wider group has the update(read prioroity list) - those can be fixed as well and rolled into one patch followup*
> this is a standard plan for deploying mass consumed software, especially software that interacts with hardware as much as TiVo does. So complain away all you want but you just mask the real, useful data in noise.
> 
> ( NOTE - I also have one and have not come across this despite recording 3 hour hockey games and going to live TV)


Regarding the TTG release, it certainly had bugs. However, the problem with 7.3 is none of these bugs were necessary. It's like they tinkered with the UI for no reason. They should of spent their time on KidZone, not tinkering with the UI and then leaving it incomplete. Breaking fundamental functionality to add a totally separate feature (KidZone) is not something that I would think would be allowed by a good project manager.

Also, regarding the lockup, it occurs when the tuner is still tuned to the channel the program was recorded on. What happens is if another program is recording on the other tuner, it tries to change that tuner to the channel that the program you were watching was recorded on. The issue may be part of the problem I mentioned earlier in that the recording icon stays on even after the program has finished recording. So it may be the TiVo still thinks the program is being recorded when you hit live tv. I often watch sports events behind time so I can pass through the commercials, and this situation comes up a lot.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Wasn't there a more staggered role out of the TTG release? (What was it, 7.1?) I remember even those on the priority list took a while to get it. Is there a history of the odd-number revisions being buggy?


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

SullyND said:


> Wasn't there a more staggered role out of the TTG release? (What was it, 7.1?) I remember even those on the priority list took a while to get it. Is there a history of the odd-number revisions being buggy?


[OT]I think it's primes, actually.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

rainwater said:


> However, the problem with 7.3 is none of these bugs were necessary. It's like they tinkered with the UI for no reason. They should of spent their time on KidZone, not tinkering with the UI and then leaving it incomplete. Breaking fundamental functionality to add a totally separate feature (KidZone) is not something that I would think would be allowed by a good project manager.


No bug is ever "necessary". KidZone changed some UI function by design (e.g. no "delete now" message), so it's not fair to say that they "tinkered for no reason".

However, some of the bugs seem to be related to the one-button delete feature, which, although a nice addition, isn't a critical feature.

Until we know more about Tivo's decision making process and software development process (unlikely), debating about them doesn't seem to serve much purpose.

This thread was started to document/discuss bugs in 7.3 - perhaps we should get return our focus to that goal.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> This thread was started to document/discuss bugs in 7.3 - perhaps we should get return our focus to that goal.


There are lots of bugs already discussed in the thread. Once you post them, there's not much more we can do. It either gets fixed or it doesn't. If TiVo wants more information they can ask us. But for now, there's nothing else to discuss


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## aus1ander (Sep 17, 2004)

Ruth said:


> Hmm. Maybe that explains the intermittent nature of the problem I am seeing? The shows that didn't bring up the delete screen might have been in progress when I started watching (they certainly weren't when they ended, though). I just don't remember. I'll try and see if I can reproduce this with an older recording, or if its just the in-progress ones.
> 
> Also, when I did get the delete screen, and chose to delete, the program was still listed in NP for a second after it dumped me back there. Then there was a screen redraw and it disappeared. Again not a critical issue, but clunky. The UI in this release just seems less seamless overall.


I can reproduce this while watching in-progress recordings. Older recordings don't seem to have this problem for me. I have KZ turned off.


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

aus1ander said:


> I can reproduce this while watching in-progress recordings. Older recordings don't seem to have this problem for me. I have KZ turned off.


Yes, this describes my situation also. I am not using KZ, and after further experimentation, it seems the problem is confined to in-progress recordings.


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## DarkAudit (Oct 16, 2003)

Some I've found:

*deleting from suggestions folder will move the cursor down one item, as well as move the list up. (i.e.: You delete Item #1. Item #2 moves to the top of the list, but the cursor highlights item #3)

* trying to view guide data for a future date will return the guide to the channel you started from, instead of the channel selected when you went to select another date.

[edit] rebooting issue I reported here had nothing to do with 7.3, but was due to my use of an unsupported wireless adapter [/edit]


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

jfh3 said:


> No bug is ever "necessary". KidZone changed some UI function by design (e.g. no "delete now" message), so it's not fair to say that they "tinkered for no reason".


I don't have a stand-alone TiVo, but I've been watching this thread for quite some time and have a question about KidZone and the "intentional" change to "Delete Now" when KidZone is enabled.

"Delete Now" has been a fundamental feature of TiVo from the beginning: finish watching a recording, and get prompted to delete it immediately to save space.

Why would TiVo change this? Is it to prevent kids from deleting shows when they're done watching them? That still doesn't make sense to me, because if the kids are done, wouldn't you want to let them delete it? I'm hoping someone can explain it. 

Thanks.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

drew2k said:


> I don't have a stand-alone TiVo, but I've been watching this thread for quite some time and have a question about KidZone and the "intentional" change to "Delete Now" when KidZone is enabled.
> 
> "Delete Now" has been a fundamental feature of TiVo from the beginning: finish watching a recording, and get prompted to delete it immediately to save space.
> 
> ...


I'd guess its to avoid a case of Sammy deleting a show but Suzie hasn't watched it yet and the brawl that might result.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

Or Sammy or Suzie deleting it before Mommy and Daddy have gotten a chance to watch it...

Note this should only affect shows being watched through the KidZone Now Playing...

Mommy or Daddy may authorize a show to show up in the Kid's Now Playing list, but there's still only one copy of that show... the kids can then view it, but we may not necessarily want them to inadvertently delete it before we get to watch it...


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## MultimediaJones (Jan 3, 2004)

jfh3, I am quite tired of you telling the rest of us what to think and now what to do in this thread. As to your comment a few pages back about no version of Windows ever shipping without bugs, this is different. 

Yes every piece of software more complex than a "Hello world!" teaching exercise has bugs. Pointing this out was neither surprising nor insightful. Regardless, your comparison falls apart in that Microsoft doesn't force unwelcome upgrades onto customer owned equipment. You may not be able to download add-on enhancements if you don't run the Genuine Windows tool, and your computer may be at greater risk of attack if you decline to install critical security updates. There may be other consequences of not installing certain upgrades. Nevertheless, Microsoft lets each customer decide WHEN to install almost every patch, and Microsoft never "pushes" a major update to all customer systems without the customer's consent. That way when an update is widely reported to cause too many problems, customers can opt to skip it or wait until the problems are corrected.

I paid for my TiVos. *I* own them, TiVo does not. In a matter of minutes the company has transformed one of them from "God's machine" into a bug-ridden pain-in-the-ass, at least five days after knowing that 7.3 has numerous bugs. Once upon a time TiVo cared more than anything about the customer experience, and offering a better, more reliable DVR than anyone else. Those days appear to be past, as since version 7 the company is apparently more concerned with adding features than it is with software quality. I like new features when they don't otherwise degrade the software.

I'm approaching the point where the only question I've got left is what will it take for TiVo to properly balance features against stability, and give customers a CHOICE about WHEN to install updates. Will it require a class-action lawsuit to force the company to stop f'ing with our property on a whim "for our own good"? I'm beginning to think it will, and I am NOT so in love with the company that I will chant "TiVo is great, TiVo is the way" no matter what the company does.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

MultimediaJones said:


> jfh3, I am quite tired of you telling the rest of us what to think and now what to do in this thread.


 Dude, chill out...

He's no more telling people what to think than you are with your post here...

He just stated his opinions, which he has every right to do, as you clearly decided to state yours as well...

I happen to agree with him more than I agree with your opinion...

This thread isn't just for those people who want to bash TiVo... many of us do not have as much of a problem with this update as some of you do...


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Thanks for the Sammy/Suzie explanations. I think I have to experience this to understand it and maybe even appreciate it, but hopefully I'll get that chance when the HD Series 3 comes out!


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## DarkAudit (Oct 16, 2003)

Let me recant the constant rebooting during transfers. I was using an unsupported Linksys wireless G adapter, and since switching to a supported Linksys wired adapter, the problem has gone away.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

DarkAudit said:


> Let me recant the constant rebooting during transfers. I was using an unsupported Linksys wireless G adapter, and since switching to a supported Linksys wired adapter, the problem has gone away.


Glad things cleared up for you.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

MultimediaJones said:


> ...
> 
> Will it require a class-action lawsuit to force the company to stop f'ing with our property on a whim "for our own good"? ...


Unfortunately section 6 of the TiVo service agreement gives them the right to do just that.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

MultimediaJones said:


> I'm approaching the point where the only question I've got left is what will it take for TiVo to properly balance features against stability, and give customers a CHOICE about WHEN to install updates. Will it require a class-action lawsuit to force the company to stop f'ing with our property on a whim "for our own good"? I'm beginning to think it will, and I am NOT so in love with the company that I will chant "TiVo is great, TiVo is the way" no matter what the company does.


1. You'll never have that choice. TiVo has stated that repeatedly. They do not have any desire to continue supporting old software and incurring the costs of needing to continue supporting old systems. All systems get updated as quickly as is practical to allow them to maintain a unified support environment.

2. You have fun with that. I hate the way lawsuits are thrown around. Especially in this case when the TiVo user agreement specifically gives them the rights to do what they've done, like it or not. You did read it, right?

3. TiVo screws up. They have in the past, and probably will in the future too. I'm shocked, really, I am. I'm sure someone(s) thought there was a good reason for shipping 7.3 as it is. Personally I don't think it was ready, but then we're also not privy to all the details that went into the decision. If it was something like "Radio Shack says they're not going to distribute TiVo is KidZone isn't out in June" or something (I just made that up, to be clear), eh, I could see it, because the long term loss of a good distribution deal would be worse than any short term issues with some annoying glitches.

I very, very much doubt that 7.3 was released without some good business reason. If there was no other factor pushing the release, then I'm sure it'd been held until more of the issues were resolved. I'm convinced there were other factors, that we're not privy to, that drove the release.

I find some of the glitches annoying, but my world isn't collapsing and I'm not going to go crazy. I still have enough faith to believe there will be a patch and 7.3a, or 7.3.1, or whatever, will fix them. And if not all of them, there is always 7.3b or 7.3.2, etc.

They aren't rebooting, they aren't deleting recordings, they aren't forgetting to record things - no 'show stoppers'.


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## JasonRossSmith (Jul 21, 2005)

I skimmed (but addmitedly did no read in their entirety) the thread, so I might have missed it if it did. But did anyone mention that when using the Multi Room Viewing transfer function you used to have the option to "transfer from paused point" but now you do not?


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

JasonRossSmith said:


> I skimmed (but addmitedly did no read in their entirety) the thread, so I might have missed it if it did. But did anyone mention that when using the Multi Room Viewing transfer function you used to have the option to "transfer from paused point" but now you do not?


No I don't believe so. Thanks.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

megazone said:


> If it was something like "Radio Shack says they're not going to distribute TiVo is KidZone isn't out in June" or something (I just made that up, to be clear), eh, I could see it, because the long term loss of a good distribution deal would be worse than any short term issues with some annoying glitches.


I realize you just made that up but if its true then TiVo's foot may have just been shot by their own pistol. I'd bet that Radio Shack is taking a long hard relook and asking themselves hard questions about future product quality and the support issues they are likely to encounter given this current garbage release.



megazone said:


> They aren't rebooting, they aren't deleting recordings, they aren't forgetting to record things - no 'show stoppers'.


My VCRs don't reboot, delete recordings, or forget to record things and I don't have to pay a monthly subscription to use them. We're entitled to more than that and not just for the few months/year between the fixes for one release and the next new release.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

RoyK said:


> I realize you just made that up but if its true then TiVo's foot may have just been shot by their own pistol. I'd bet that Radio Shack is taking a long hard relook and asking themselves hard questions about future product quality and the support issues they are likely to encounter given this current garbage release.


Why would they do that? They don't have to support the TiVos they sell. Once it's out the door, support is provided by TiVo, Inc.

While I have some of the annoying interface bugs, I have now attempted numerous times and am unable to cause a reboot in my DT (or my older units, for that matter) from anywhere in the interface. As I earlier mentioned to rainwater, if some people have the symptons and some don't, it may not be as simple as just poor QA on TiVo's part, it may be some confluence of factors that couldn't be made to appear under testing conditions. Let's continue to report, with as much details as possible, since that's the only thing we can be sure will be helpful in getting a quick resolution to the issues.


JasonRossSmith said:


> I skimmed (but addmitedly did no read in their entirety) the thread, so I might have missed it if it did. But did anyone mention that when using the Multi Room Viewing transfer function you used to have the option to "transfer from paused point" but now you do not?


I just tried this and I definitely DO HAVE "Transfer from paused point". This is transferring from a 240 onto a DT, both 7.3.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

gonzotek said:


> Why would they do that? They don't have to support the TiVos they sell. Once it's out the door, support is provided by TiVo, Inc.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

RoyK said:


> I realize you just made that up but if its true then TiVo's foot may have just been shot by their own pistol. I'd bet that Radio Shack is taking a long hard relook and asking themselves hard questions about future product quality and the support issues they are likely to encounter given this current garbage release.


 Fortunately, we live in America, and not everyone is as negative as you are about this release, as evident by this thread alone... if you think being so negative is what's needed to get TiVo to fix these things, I believe you're mistaken, and TiVo will get these fixed without such hostility... "garbage release" - hardly... 



gonzotek said:


> I just tried this and I definitely DO HAVE "Transfer from paused point". This is transferring from a 240 onto a DT, both 7.3.


 Ditto, I have had this option as well on all 5 of my boxes...


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## DarkAudit (Oct 16, 2003)

Not sure if this is a bug, or simply a 'missing feature', but an inturrupted TTG transfer should not have to completely start over when it resumes.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

DarkAudit said:


> Not sure if this is a bug, or simply a 'missing feature', but an inturrupted TTG transfer should not have to completely start over when it resumes.


Known missing feature. According to RFC-2616(see section 14.16), Tivo should support the Content-Range header(and other related specs) to support download resumes.


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## DaveW1966 (May 21, 2006)

skanter said:


> I do have kids, and have parental controls already, but never saw a need to use them. I care very much what my kid watches. We discuss what is approriate, and kid abides by it.
> 
> What I find distasteful is people letting someone ELSE decide what their kids should watch, because they are too lazy or stupid to figure it out themselves.
> :down:


Amen.. from the parent of a now 22yr old who was raised before TIVO was even thought of. Parents need to be parents. Pure and simple. :up:


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## DebnTexas (Jul 1, 2004)

Put me down for Adapter not found after 7.3 upgrade on my new DT. My old MN510 b adapter still works on the regular Series 2 which as of right now, is still on 7.2. I bought the Tivo brand g Adapter for the DT, and put in on today, and still no luck connecting.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

DebnTexas said:


> Put me down for Adapter not found after 7.3 upgrade on my new DT. My old MN510 b adapter still works on the regular Series 2 which as of right now, is still on 7.2. I bought the Tivo brand g Adapter for the DT, and put in on today, and still no luck connecting.


 I'm using the TiVo Wireless-G Adapter on one of my DT's with no problems before or after the upgrade...

You may have already tried this, but thought I'd ask the obvious... did you try rebooting the DT both with the TiVo adapter attached and without... and/or try switching it to phone and back again, and/or going through the network set-up screens again? You could also just try leaving the adapter unplugged from the USB port of the DT for several minutes before plugging it back in, and then going through the network set-up screens again...

You might also double-check your wireless router settings... I have mine secured so that only the MAC addresses I have entered into the router can connect to it; so, I'd suggest just making sure that yours isn't set up that way, or entering the TiVo's adapter MAC address if it is...

Can you get the TiVo Adapter to work on your other TiVo? If so, then it's probably not a router issue...

I have five TiVo's (three of which are DT's)... two are wired, three are wireless... two using the TiVo Wireless-G Adapter, and one using the Linksys WUSB11 v2.6 Wireless-B adapter, all of which are having no problems before or after the 7.3 upgrades...


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## DebnTexas (Jul 1, 2004)

UPDATE - I assigned a static IP to the 7.3 Tivo and I am connected now. (I previously was using the DCHP option.) Yippee! Will I need to reset the Static IP address if I lose DSL or restart router at any time?

I originally tried... 
1 - unplug adapter then wait then replug, 
2 - temp phone connection (dialed in and got updates)
3 - TiVO restart, 4 - restart the router

Question about the wireless MAC address ALLOW list...I have none set up, but I do use WEP. I thought that the WEP would keep out unauthorized users, and the MAC address list would only complicate my life (having to remember to add items in there). Is doing the MAC addresses just overkill, or prudent for security purposes?

Thanks!


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

DebnTexas said:


> UPDATE - I assigned a static IP to the 7.3 Tivo and I am connected now. (I previously was using the DCHP option.) Yippee! Will I need to reset the Static IP address if I lose DSL or restart router at any time?
> 
> <snip>
> 
> ...


 Not to get off-topic, as the OP doesn't like that for this thread, but since you asked:

You shouldn't have to reset the static IP, as it's tied to the router and not your DSL/Internet connection... restarting the router shouldn't be a problem, unless you have another device on your network set as DHCP that then grabs that IP address first, so it's usually best to set the static IP address outside the range you have set for DHCP on your router...

As far as doing the MAC addresses, no security is 100%, so my philosophy is the more the better, as long as the added security doesn't interfere with daily operations, and I personally haven't found it a problem to add the addresses as needed, which has been rare... but each person has to weigh security risk with convenience for themselves...

Btw, I have all of my TiVo's set to DHCP, and no problems for me so far, knock on wood...


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## DarkAudit (Oct 16, 2003)

Another one...

* Thumbs up or down not accepted for some shows when viewing the guide. I can go into find programs and rate it normally, though.

* When guide clicks over to the next half hour block, you are returned to the current listing for the channel you're browsing, even though you may be trying to look days ahead. (Without going to info and setting start date.)


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

mchips said:


> Fortunately, we live in America, and not everyone is as negative as you are about this release, as evident by this thread alone... if you think being so negative is what's needed to get TiVo to fix these things, I believe you're mistaken, and TiVo will get these fixed without such hostility... "garbage release" - hardly...


I guess I should apologize for the use of 'garbage'. Its just that there are so many bugs swarming over it. Perhaps you can suggest something else?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

RoyK said:


> I guess I should apologize for the use of 'garbage'. Its just that there are so many bugs swarming over it. Perhaps you can suggest something else?


Buggy


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## Publius (Jul 28, 2003)

I don't know if someone has mentioned this already, but "Thumbs Up" or "Thumbs Down" does not function correctly when you're watching the show. It will only allow you to put in one Thumb Up or one Thumb Down and then it gives you the error bong.


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## Alcatraz (Nov 22, 2000)

RoyK said:


> I guess I should apologize for the use of 'garbage'. Its just that there are so many bugs swarming over it. Perhaps you can suggest something else?


I think realtors would be best suited to coming up with descriptions for this, as they seem to have a knack for euphemistic descriptions.

How about:
Charmingly Quirky
A lovely starter version of software for the young couple just starting out on their first DVR
In need of some TLC

Definitely a fixer upper!

And for some reason this one just popped into my head:
Son, your remote is writing checks your software can't cash!


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

drew2k said:


> I don't have a stand-alone TiVo, but I've been watching this thread for quite some time and have a question about KidZone and the "intentional" change to "Delete Now" when KidZone is enabled.
> 
> "Delete Now" has been a fundamental feature of TiVo from the beginning: finish watching a recording, and get prompted to delete it immediately to save space.
> 
> ...


Another possibility other than the Sammy/Suzie fight prevention - perhaps Tivo's testing showed that kids of certain ages didn't understand what the choices were and/or they were too confusing for the target age ranges.

When my daughter was 3 or 4 and the show was "Barney", the word "Delete" would've never entered her mind ...  (Wonder if that's why the KZ background is purple ...)


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## rcnast (Jul 29, 2003)

I apologize it this has been mentioned already. With channel changing options set to change only to favorites, and using the channel up/down button the TiVo changes to all channels I receive; e.g. if 5 and 7 are favorites and 6 is not but marked as channels I receive, changing from 5 to 7 will result in stopping on 6 rather than 7. To stop this I have to remove non-favorites from channels I receive.


Richard


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## killme (May 9, 2004)

Bimwad said:


> Another annoying inconsistency is finding that the TiVo will automatically change the display preference of the bug/banner/full info panel to the last setting if Info is invoked more than a couple times. That's being a little _too_ helpful and forces one to reset the desired display unnecessarily.


 I called TiVo about this issue. They said it was supposed to do that. They did tell me how I could submit a suggestion, but it's unlikely they'll change it.


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## lkplatow (Dec 2, 2002)

I had no idea it was coming, as I just use Tivo, I don't keep up with all the news. 

I read the first 3 pages of this thread looking for mentions of my bugs but didn't see them. I haven't encountered any of the other stuff, but then I don't do much besides play the shows that have recorded on my season passes.

I have found 2 bugs that affect how I use it every day and they are driving me nuts.

1) I have a Sony SVR-3000 and have noticed that when I push the "List" button on the remote, I no longer get a bong or any kind of noise to cue me that the Tivo recognizes the command. Since the list can sometimes take several seconds to come up, this causes me to push the List button repeatedly thinking the tivo didn't get the command...then the List comes up and I get a bunch of error bongs because I pushed the List button 10 times.

2) If I am halfway through watching a program and I hit List, when I go back to the program, it says Play, not Resume Playing. And if I play it, it starts over from the beginning. I have two little kids and never get to watch one of my shows all the way through in one shot, so this is driving me INSANE!!!!

3) I have had weird things where I'm browsing the list, click into a program description for one program, hit the left arrow button, and it returns to the list but on a totally different program than the one I was viewing. But when I've tried to replicate this, it doesn't happen again. Flakey.

I've had Tivo for 4 years now and never once noticed a bug -- I'm sure they were there, but they just didn't impact me. Now all the sudden I'm being driven up the wall by them. I am extremely disappointed and annoyed and hope they can get these 2 items fixed soon. 

I was amazed to log on here and see the long list of bugs -- I can't believe that since all this stuff has been a known issue for quite some time now, that they're still pushing this out to unsuspecting users like me. I wasn't even aware of the new features (and I have kids, but they have their season passes and that's it) and don't plan to use them. But I am really going nuts from these 2 bugs!!!


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

megazone said:


> 1. You'll never have that choice. TiVo has stated that repeatedly. They do not have any desire to continue supporting old software and incurring the costs of needing to continue supporting old systems. All systems get updated as quickly as is practical to allow them to maintain a unified support environment.


 One thought I have had on this is that there is always a subset of people on each feature release that do not want the feature and thus would be just fine waiting for the release until everyone else has it. TiVo could implement a "Back of the Line" list to parrallel the priority list. then people who want to be proactive about it can place their TSNs on that list and filter the list of TSNs for a day's rollout against that list so those DVRs do not get the upgrade until all others have it. It fits TiVo inc's need of still keeping all DVRs on a unifrom release while buying time for patches and so forth for those who do not want the new feature anyway and can wait.


> 2. You have fun with that. I hate the way lawsuits are thrown around. Especially in this case when the TiVo user agreement specifically gives them the rights to do what they've done, like it or not. You did read it, right?


 Drink

I would also ask how many bugs from the infamous TiVoToGo release are still around. TiVo has a firm history of making sure bugs get squashed as they can fix them and getting the patch out to everyone. I am sure a patch to 7.3 will follow shortly. and that is not fanboy talk but just a look at the history of TiVo feature roll outs. They have a very repeatable process that speaks of a fairly mature capability model.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> One thought I have had on this is that there is always a subset of people on each feature release that do not want the feature and thus would be just fine waiting for the release until everyone else has it. TiVo could implement a "Back of the Line" list to parrallel the priority list. then people who want to be proactive about it can place their TSNs on that list and filter the list of TSNs for a day's rollout against that list so those DVRs do not get the upgrade until all others have it. It fits TiVo inc's need of still keeping all DVRs on a unifrom release while buying time for patches and so forth for those who do not want the new feature anyway and can wait.


That is an excellent idea and I'd almost certainly be on the "last to update" list. Problem is, however, that most users are like lkplatow above and have no idea that a new version is even in the mill until their boxes begin to screw up. Then its too late.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> That is an excellent idea and I'd almost certainly be on the "last to update" list. Problem is, however, that most users are like lkplatow above and have no idea that a new version is even in the mill until their boxes begin to screw up. Then its too late.


thus the proactive part  Otherwise they live within the TOS as is.


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## natty-j (Apr 10, 2006)

One more... 
when using the guide and selecting "enter" for more options the date displayed in this menu is a day behind the current date. So if you want to check the guide for next day you have to select today's date, which in turn changes the guide's date to tomorrow.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

RoyK said:


> That is an excellent idea and I'd almost certainly be on the "last to update" list. Problem is, however, that most users are like lkplatow above and have no idea that a new version is even in the mill until their boxes begin to screw up. Then its too late.


True, but this release has more bugs than usual. Normally people wouldn't even know their software was upgraded if not for the upgrade message on the TiVo.

I'm not sure how they decided who to upgrade first after the priority list. In this case we were told DT TiVos were given priority of non-DT TiVos because of certain DT only bug fixes. My (not-DT) TiVo still hasn't been upgraded.

Also RoyK, just a suggestion, but you might want to update your first post in this thread to include the other bugs posted to this thread to make it easier for people to know if their bug has been posted here or not without having to read through all the "non-bug" posts.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

morac said:


> Also RoyK, just a suggestion, but you might want to update your first post in this thread to include the other bugs posted to this thread to make it easier for people to know if their bug has been posted here or not without having to read through all the "non-bug" posts.


Good idea.
Done


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

We should give RoyK a thanks for updating his first post to include all the bugs reported in this now too long Thread

Thanks RoyK and I hope TiVo prints out your first post and checks it against their own bug list.


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## DavidSTiVo (Jul 23, 2001)

I miss the speed of my old Series 1. :-( 

This new update stinks.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

RoyK said:


> Good idea.
> Done


Thanks.

I do notice there are some duplicates, but at least everything is in one place now. Good work.


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## JasonRossSmith (Jul 21, 2005)

gonzotek said:


> I just tried this and I definitely DO HAVE "Transfer from paused point". This is transferring from a 240 onto a DT, both 7.3.


Thanks guys, and that is interesting. It must be specific to certain models/software combinations.

Based on the feeback of multiple users here that are not having the same issue I am, I went and tested this again. When I go to transfer recordings I still am not offered the "Transfer from paused point" option. I have "Transfer this recording" and "Don't do anything". When I select "Transfer this recording" the extra option I get is the "Start playing" or "Continue browsing..." option.

Both Models are the same, with the same software version:

Tivo Model= 649 (80 Hr DT)
Software version= 7.3-oth-01-2-649

I'm not trying to say this is a deal killer or anything, but I'm hoping someone else with the same model and software version can confirm they are having this same issue.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

JasonRossSmith said:


> Thanks guys, and that is interesting. It must be specific to certain models/software combinations.
> 
> Based on the feeback of multiple users here that are not having the same issue I am, I went and tested this again. When I go to transfer recordings I still am not offered the "Transfer from paused point" option. I have "Transfer this recording" and "Don't do anything". When I select "Transfer this recording" the extra option I get is the "Start playing" or "Continue browsing..." option.
> 
> ...


 A couple of questions for you, that might help narrow down when it's happening, since no one else seems to be seeing it: 
How far into the program that you're trying to transfer has it been paused; i.e., what minute marker was it paused at?

What screen is the TiVo on that you're trying to transfer from; i.e., the one with the paused recording - is it still on the recording, only paused, or is it on the NPL list, or TiVo Central, or Live TV, etc.?


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## medhead (Mar 27, 2006)

I have a bug that I don't think has been recorded. 

If you're in the guide, and you click to the right to scroll through the shows that are coming up on a specific channel, when you scroll back to the show that's currently on, it says "To be announced" in the title, and "no information available" in the description, even though it had correct guide data before you scrolled through the other shows.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

medhead said:


> I have a bug that I don't think has been recorded.
> 
> If you're in the guide, and you click to the right to scroll through the shows that are coming up on a specific channel, when you scroll back to the show that's currently on, it says "To be announced" in the title, and "no information available" in the description, even though it had correct guide data before you scrolled through the other shows.


 Which guide version are you using; i.e., the Grid Guide or the other?

If you're using the Grid Guide, and keep scrolling back to the left, you'll end up on the channel column, and it will then state "No information available" in the description because you're not on any program details...

So, I have to ask the obvious question, are you just happening to scroll back as far left as you can go, therefore scrolling off the current program and onto the channel column instead?

If not, perhaps more information could help others see if they can reproduce it... like which guide are you using, does it happen every time, or does it seem intermittent or just happening at specific spots or stations, etc.?


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

medhead said:


> I have a bug that I don't think has been recorded.
> 
> If you're in the guide, and you click to the right to scroll through the shows that are coming up on a specific channel, when you scroll back to the show that's currently on, it says "To be announced" in the title, and "no information available" in the description, even though it had correct guide data before you scrolled through the other shows.


Thanks for the report. I added it to the list.
Roy


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## medhead (Mar 27, 2006)

mchips said:


> Which guide version are you using; i.e., the Grid Guide or the other?
> 
> If you're using the Grid Guide, and keep scrolling back to the left, you'll end up on the channel column, and it will then state "No information available" in the description because you're not on any program details...
> 
> ...


No, I use the standard TiVo guide. When you click to the RIGHT to highlight the show that's already on, then go down to see the shows that will be coming up on the same station, when you scroll back up to the current show, the title bar lists "To be announced" and the description says "no information available." The name of the show stays the same in the guide itself. As far as I can tell, this behavior is consistent across all channels and at all times of the day.


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## JasonRossSmith (Jul 21, 2005)

mchips said:


> A couple of questions for you, that might help narrow down when it's happening, since no one else seems to be seeing it:
> How far into the program that you're trying to transfer has it been paused; i.e., what minute marker was it paused at?
> 
> What screen is the TiVo on that you're trying to transfer from; i.e., the one with the paused recording - is it still on the recording, only paused, or is it on the NPL list, or TiVo Central, or Live TV, etc.?


I have tried this from a variety of points:


Source Tivo at 15, 30, or random number of min. into program
Source Tivo left paused on the program
Source Tivo at Tivo Central
Source Tivo on live TV, etc.
I have also tried using both boxes as the source

Does anyone else have this exact box/software version combination? I'm borowing a friends digital camera tomorrow for another purpose so I will try and take some sequence pictures to show the group.


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## rcobourn (Nov 10, 2004)

lkplatow said:


> 2) If I am halfway through watching a program and I hit List, when I go back to the program, it says Play, not Resume Playing. And if I play it, it starts over from the beginning. I have two little kids and never get to watch one of my shows all the way through in one shot, so this is driving me INSANE!!!!


You aren't alone in suffering this bug... I only noticed it about 2 days ago, and I'd had the update for a while. I haven't had a chance to try a reboot and see if it corrects for a while, but at the moment, any program I pause and go back to the menus or to live tv, it will restart at the beginning. Arrgg!


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Alcatraz said:


> A lovely starter version of software for the young couple just starting out on their first DVR


... and/or child. _KZ_


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Thanks for putting this together and updating the OP!

I think this is a new one: Two Tivo's in the house, one 7.2 the other 7.3. When transferring a show and watching it while transfering, things go OK. However, when the show is over, instead of ending gracefully you get the "transfer interupted, go plug the Tivo back in to the network, dummy" error message.

It looks like the "end of recording" message or whatever isn't being handled properly between versions, and should fix itself when the second Tivo gets the bump. I figure if that's the case that someone else would have seen it... Anyone?


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

GoHokies! said:


> Thanks for putting this together and updating the OP!
> 
> I think this is a new one: Two Tivo's in the house, one 7.2 the other 7.3. When transferring a show and watching it while transfering, things go OK. However, when the show is over, instead of ending gracefully you get the "transfer interupted, go plug the Tivo back in to the network, dummy" error message.
> 
> It looks like the "end of recording" message or whatever isn't being handled properly between versions, and should fix itself when the second Tivo gets the bump. I figure if that's the case that someone else would have seen it... Anyone?


You're welcome! Too bad this list is necessary.

Roy

(Hokie '63)


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

GoHokies! said:


> Thanks for putting this together and updating the OP!
> 
> I think this is a new one: Two Tivo's in the house, one 7.2 the other 7.3. When transferring a show and watching it while transfering, things go OK. However, when the show is over, instead of ending gracefully you get the "transfer interupted, go plug the Tivo back in to the network, dummy" error message.
> 
> It looks like the "end of recording" message or whatever isn't being handled properly between versions, and should fix itself when the second Tivo gets the bump. I figure if that's the case that someone else would have seen it... Anyone?


Can you reproduce this one? What network adapters are involved?

I had a similar config for a while and never saw this over many transfers.

Unless it also happens under certain conditions for 7.3 to 7.3 transfers, I'm not sure this is worth anyone spending much time on, since the window of time for 7.2 to 7.3 combos is very limited.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Too bad this list is necessary.


It was good of you to start the list and discussion, but until you quit your current job, go to Tivo and get hired as the software release manager, give this a rest.

There will almost certainly be a bug list for ANY software release.

If you think THIS (or any other) Tivo release has unbearable bugs, go get yourself a Motorola 6412 with Comcast iGuide and compare. I guarantee that will put things in perspective for you.


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## DarkAudit (Oct 16, 2003)

jfh3 said:


> It was good of you to start the list and discussion, but until you quit your current job, go to Tivo and get hired as the software release manager, give this a rest.
> 
> There will almost certainly be a bug list for ANY software release.
> 
> If you think THIS (or any other) Tivo release has unbearable bugs, go get yourself a Motorola 6412 with Comcast iGuide and compare. I guarantee that will put things in perspective for you.


Bugs, yes. Severely breaking what was already working, _no_.

The TiVo I have now is significantly less than what it was just a week ago. Slowdowns, stuff not working as it once did, or functionality removed just because.

Keep up the good work, Roy, because they pretty much broke my TiVo with this one.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> It was good of you to start the list and discussion, but until you quit your current job, go to Tivo and get hired as the software release manager, give this a rest.
> 
> There will almost certainly be a bug list for ANY software release.
> 
> If you think THIS (or any other) Tivo release has unbearable bugs, go get yourself a Motorola 6412 with Comcast iGuide and compare. I guarantee that will put things in perspective for you.


I quit my current job last September - retired. I have no urge to work for TiVo. And believe me after a 40+ year career in embedded hardware and software design and quality control things are in full perspective for me.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

DarkAudit said:


> they pretty much broke my TiVo with this one.


LOL!

Has your Tivo missed a scheduled recording?

Have trick play functions stopped working?

Have Wishlists, MultiRoom Viewing, TivoToGo, and Music, Photos and More aps stopped working?

Can you no longer search for (or Find) programs to record?

Is the program guide missing?

Other than the intermittent reboot problems some are experiencing (which apparently didn't start with 7.3) and some network adapter problems, 7.3 didn't "break" anyone's Tivo.

Annoyed the **** out of some people with some of these bugs and inconsistancies, yes. Broke Tivo? Not hardly.

(And my main point was that RoyK seems to use every post these days to take a swipe at Tivo over this release. I think everyone at TCF understands his position by now).

I'm not "apologizing for Tivo", but it's not like continued Tivo bashing is going to change the situation. For whatever reason, Tivo made a business decision to release the code level it did. We don't know what the beta testers found or didn't find. What we do know is that Tivo is aware of these problems, and, given past history, is working on a patch release. We also know from posts in other threads that they are "slowing down" the wide 7.3 release, as some here have demanded.

On the other hand, Comcast and Motorola haven't fixed my 6412 software that has been randomly deleting programs or not recording some in the first place for over a year and take the old Microsoft approach ("just reboot the box"), despite two updates. You want "broke"? When a DVR can't reliably handle basic functions, that's "broke".


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## interactiveTV (Jul 2, 2000)

jfh3 said:


> On the other hand, Comcast and Motorola haven't fixed my 6412 software that has been randomly deleting programs or not recording some in the first place for over a year and take the old Microsoft approach ("just reboot the box"), despite two updates. You want "broke"? When a DVR can't reliably handle basic functions, that's "broke".


 Yup, I'd be pretty pissed off if I spent $600 plus lifetime service on a 6412 too. But I didn't.

Then again, my TWC 8300HD hasn't missed a recording yet or deleted anything I haven't told it too.

Tivo's software base is certainly getting more and more complex. The great masses, however, might expect *more* from something that costs them almost double per month than the cable company charges.

There is always the trade off between quality and actually ever shipping (or distributing) the product but perhaps people have a higher expectation of Tivo because (a) it costs more and (b) it has deserved that reputation in the past.

Comparing to MSO boxes -- and again, my 8300HD is pretty damn great actually -- just lowers the standard of comparison.

You're 100% right that Tivo made a "business decision" but with the very important Comcast and S3 releases both due this year, I think many Tivo fans hope that Tivo's "business decisions" balance the need to ship and keep timelines with the very real need to CONTINUE to deliver a quality, almost flawless product.

I'm not even talking specifically about 7.3, just the need for Tivo, while introducing all these "extra" features that really only very slightly and incrementally matter to the PVR experience, to really keep QA to its usual standards.

Recently, some days I feel like my Tivos have become Microsoft Word version 6. I can't wait for the toolbars to start popping up. 

_ITV


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

jfh3 said:


> It was good of you to start the list and discussion, but until you quit your current job, go to Tivo and get hired as the software release manager, give this a rest.
> 
> There will almost certainly be a bug list for ANY software release.
> 
> If you think THIS (or any other) Tivo release has unbearable bugs, go get yourself a Motorola 6412 with Comcast iGuide and compare. I guarantee that will put things in perspective for you.


You seem to have quite a problem with the tone of this thread, which is geared to what problems the community has identified in the latest release of TiVo's software for the SA boxes. You also are exacerbating the problem by constantly criticizing the OP for his beliefs that the standards he holds TiVo to were not met with the 7.2 and/or 7.3 software. You've constantly repeating yourself, which causes the OP to constantly repeat himself.

You've explained yourself many times, so I suggest that if you have this much of a problem with the OP maintaining a thread about the problems in this software release, kindly stop reading this thread and start your own thread about how the problems the community has reported with version 7.3 are meaningless.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

jfh3 said:


> I'm not "apologizing for Tivo", but it's not like continued Tivo bashing is going to change the situation.


You know what, it's not like continuing to praise or defend TiVo is going to change the situation either. It is what it is. When TiVo issues an update and starts resolving problems, the OP can cross off items in the first post as fixed.

In the meantime, this thread was established to report problems found in this software release. If nothing else, it has stopped a zillion other threads from starting with "Has anyone seen this", "I think I have a problem with 7.3 ...", etc., as anyone thinking they have a problem can come to one place, and feel the warm glow of knowing they are not alone.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

RoyK said:


> I quit my current job last September - retired. I have no urge to work for TiVo. And believe me after a 40+ year career in embedded hardware and software design and quality control things are in full perspective for me.


 Okay, this all makes sense, now...

You must have been someone that fixed bugs in your applications ONLY when people screamed loudly about them, since you obviously think that's what's needed here with TiVo... but it really isn't, and TiVo has probably been a step ahead of you the entire time... but, people often draw on their own experiences, so then I would presume that you needed the constant squeaking to get things done yourself, so you in turn transfer that to TiVo... but TiVo doesn't need it to get things done, and it all might instead just be counter-productive to that end...

Btw, a suggestion that might help make your first post more readable, is to have each alleged bug listed on a single line in your first post, like you started out doing, but just a summary line that links to the person reporting it, and if people want more information on a particular bug, they can click the link to see how that person is describing it... I say alleged because a certain percentage will be user error, misperception and/or unique to someone's own individual circumstances, or some other external cause (e.g., as just an example, an unstable power source or a failing drive causing someone's TiVo to reboot regularly)... but I suppose you only need to list them, and leave it up to TiVo to discern what is and isn't a bug attributable to the software... if they can reproduce it, they should be able to fix it... of course that's assuming they aren't already one step ahead of you and this list and aren't already fixing and preparing the next update...

Your list now contains several lines for each reported bug, making the list 5-7 times or more longer than is necessary for it to be... plus, there are a few duplicates and related bugs listed separately...

As it is now, it almost appears more exploitive of the bugs than it does constructive... but then again, maybe that was the only way people could get you to do your own work, and I strongly disagree with your assertion that TiVo would not fix these bugs otherwise...


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

drew2k said:


> You seem to have quite a problem with the tone of this thread...


 The tone is the problem...

We need people like jfh3 around, or the threads just turn into a gripefest... people love to complain, misery loves company...

"*Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain  and most fools do.*"
~ Dale Carnegie (1888-1955)​It's not that people are just listing the bugs, though some people are and that's fine, it's that Roy and a couple of others are taking it further than just that, constantly bashing TiVo in the process, and exaggerating things a bit... the other side of these issues deserve and need to be heard, too, so that people reading this thread don't think that all TiVo users agree with the nay-sayers of the group...



drew2k said:


> If nothing else, it has stopped a zillion other threads from starting with "Has anyone seen this", "I think I have a problem with 7.3 ...", etc., as anyone thinking they have a problem can come to one place, and feel the warm glow of knowing they are not alone.


 That's where you're wrong... there have been numerous threads created, and this was not the first nor the last, and like jfh3 states, Roy seems to be taking every opportunity to bash TiVo and this release in other posts throughout the forum as well, so even he is not viewing this thread as a one-stop shop...



drew2k said:


> so I suggest that if you have this much of a problem with the OP maintaining a thread about the problems in this software release, kindly stop reading this thread...


 You could take your own advice, and if you have this much of a problem with jfh3's posts, then you could kindly stop reading his as well... why should he be the one to leave, just because he wants to take a more positive approach to seeing these bugs resolved, and doesn't feel the bashing of TiVo is necessary in the process to that end... and I agree...


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

mchips said:


> The tone is the problem...
> 
> We need people like jfh3 around, or the threads just turn into a gripefest... people love to complain, misery loves company...


So? What's wrong with letting people complain? Let them have their romp in the sun and be done with it. Instead, we have constant back and forth about I'm right and you're wrong. Have you ever heard the phrase "Don't feed the trolls?" The goal of that phrase is to let the issue die down. 


> It's not that people are just listing the bugs, though some people are and that's fine, it's that Roy and a couple of others are taking it further than just that, constantly bashing TiVo in the process, and exaggerating things a bit...


Again, so what? What does it cost you that someone bashes TiVo? Let them! The rest of this forum is one major booster for TiVo, so let the dissatisfied voice their dissatisfaction!


> the other side of these issues deserve and need to be heard, too, so that people reading this thread don't think that all TiVo users agree with the nay-sayers of the group...


You're right, balance is good. But this thread seems to have turned very personal between two particular posters, and that's not good.


> That's where you're wrong... there have been numerous threads created, and this was not the first nor the last, and like jfh3 states, Roy seems to be taking every opportunity to bash TiVo and this release in other posts throughout the forum, so even he is not viewing this thread as a one-stop shop...


I'm not about to go back and re-read the entire thread to see who started the name-calling. Feel free if you wish.


> You could take your own advice, and if you have this much of a problem with jfh3's posts, then you could kindly stop reading his as well... why should he be the one to leave, just because he wants to take a more positive approach to seeing these bugs resolved, and doesn't feel the bashing of TiVo is necessary in the process to that end... and I agree...


I've posted exactly two messages about jhf3's posts. Can't see how you define that as "this much" of a problem. My suggestions were just that, and offered kindly even, in the hope that the animosity would dissipate so that this thread is about one topic only: issues users have found in the software.

This will be my last post about the animosity and individual posts, as this thread should indeed be about software issues only. Have a great day.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

drew2k said:


> So? What's wrong with letting people complain? Let them have their romp in the sun and be done with it. Instead, we have constant back and forth about I'm right and you're wrong. Have you ever heard the phrase "Don't feed the trolls?" The goal of that phrase is to let the issue die down.


 There's nothing wrong with people complaining, that's what people do best, and statistics show that people will complain publicly far more often and louder than they will praise... we need the praise just as much, if not more, since it is a far more rare commodity...

Loud complaining is more effective if it's reserved for when it's truly needed... otherwise, it's just like the boy who cried wolf, and people take it less seriously, thinking, oh boy, there he/they go again...

Of course, you're again heeding your own advice by letting this die down... 



drew2k said:


> Again, so what? What does it cost you that someone bashes TiVo? Let them! The rest of this forum is one major booster for TiVo, so let the dissatisfied voice their dissatisfaction!


Again, back at you, what does it cost you to allow people to praise TiVo?



drew2k said:


> I've posted exactly two messages about jhf3's posts. Can't see how you define that as "this much" of a problem. My suggestions were just that, and offered kindly even, in the hope that the animosity would dissipate so that this thread is about one topic only: issues users have found in the software.


 I was just using your own words, and you telling someone to basically shut up and go elsewhere is not kind... which is what you were doing... you were taking sides... nice would have been trying to stay in the middle, remain neutral, and make both parties feel validated... but all you did was tell jfh3 how wrong he is...

<edit>
I want to add that I didn't begin posting in this thread myself until I saw how the negative posts were affecting some people who hadn't even seen the 7.3 issues for themselves yet, with them almost seemingly panicking and asking how to prevent the update from happening...

That's what allowing only the complainers to have their say can cause, and therefore the other side of the issue needs to be heard as well, so people can see that these are just individual opinions, and we all don't agree that it's as bad as some people state...

We all seem to agree that there are bugs in this release... we just disagree on just how severe or inhibiting they are, and how quickly we feel TiVo will get them fixed... with some of us more optimistic than others...


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

mchips said:


> Okay, this all makes sense, now...
> 
> You must have been someone that fixed bugs in your applications ONLY when people screamed loudly about them, since you obviously think that's what's needed here with TiVo... but it really isn't, and TiVo has probably been a step ahead of you the entire time... but, people often draw on their own experiences, so then I would presume that you needed the constant squeaking to get things done yourself, so you in turn transfer that to TiVo... but TiVo doesn't need it to get things done, and it all might instead just be counter-productive to that end...


Feel better now?



mchips said:


> Your list now contains several lines for each reported bug, making the list 5-7 times or more longer than is necessary for it to be... plus, there are a few duplicates and related bugs listed separately...


By and large the list contains the bugs as reported by others - verbatim. Yes there are probably duplicates or perhaps similar bugs seen from a different point of view.



mchips said:


> As it is now, it almost appears more exploitive of the bugs than it does constructive... but then again, maybe that was the only way people could get you to do your own work, and I strongly disagree with your assertion that TiVo would not fix these bugs otherwise...


I don't believe I ever made such an assertion. If I did please point it out.

Look, my intent is not now nor has it ever been to bash anyone except whoever was responsible for making what in my opinion was the badly misguided decision to release this version of software prematurely. If I were a "TiVo basher" I certainly wouldn't own 3 of the boxes and considering seriously the purchase of a fourth. I love my TiVo. I just want it to work the way I know it is capable of working. My goal has been to stop or at least slow down this version release until it's up to snuff. It appears that goal has been at least partially realized.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

RoyK said:


> Feel better now?


 



RoyK said:


> I don't believe I ever made such an assertion. If I did please point it out.


 Perhaps that was my mistake... sorry...

I guess I figured you were being so negative because you felt that was what was necessary to get TiVo to fix these bugs... perhaps that's just your personality... some people are more optimistic than others, while others more negative...

You say "garbage release," someone else may say "charmingly quirky." Is the glass half-empty or half-full?



RoyK said:


> Look, my intent is not now nor has it ever been to bash anyone


 Ok, so you aren't bashing anyone...



RoyK said:


> except whoever was responsible for making what in my opinion was the badly misguided decision to release this version of software prematurely.


 or are you?

I don't object to someone's suggestion of a second list, for those who prefer to move to the back of the list, and is, in my opinion, more positive and constructive than just automatically assuming and stating it was a "badly misguided decision" without knowing any of the facts that went into that decision.

I will defend to the death your right to say it... I just may not agree with it, and point out that you have said it without knowing all of the facts behind it...


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Wow, this thread turned to crap! (or maybe it was like that for the rest, I checked the list, posted my issue and skipped the middle 6 pages).

Roy: Thanks again, and Go Hokies! (Class of '01)



jfh3 said:


> Can you reproduce this one? What network adapters are involved?
> 
> I had a similar config for a while and never saw this over many transfers.
> 
> Unless it also happens under certain conditions for 7.3 to 7.3 transfers, I'm not sure this is worth anyone spending much time on, since the window of time for 7.2 to 7.3 combos is very limited.


They're both Linksys wired ones, I forget the model number. I suspect that you're right, and if it is a 7.2 + 7.3 issue, the problem will solve itself.

Everyone else:

Not sure why this release is getting slammed so hard, unless I'm missing something, our Tivo's still basically work. Like jfh siad, the release doesn't "break" our Tivo - they still work. Anyone that expects perfection out of a x.x0 release is a damn fool. Once 7.31 comes around things will settle down. Until then, I'll just be glad that Tivo got this one out the door and got us the new features instead of Beta testing to death.

And finally, mchips:



mchips said:


> I will defend to the death your right to say it... I just may not agree with it, and point out that you have said it without knowing all of the facts behind it...


Knock off the hyperbole. Posting on a web forum isn't "defending to the death" and implying that it is insults us that actually do stap on a uniform, stand a watch and defend to the death all of you knucklehead's ability to to be fools. 

Happy 4th everyone, and have a SAFE weekend.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

GoHokies! said:


> And finally, mchips:
> 
> Knock off the hyperbole. Posting on a web forum isn't "defending to the death" and implying that it is insults us that actually do stap on a uniform, stand a watch and defend to the death all of you knucklehead's ability to to be fools.


 Obviously, it appears you didn't understand what I said...

I was not saying, nor implying in the least, that my posting here was defending to the death... 

To put it simply, I was saying that he has a right to say what he said, and am willing to defend that right, your right, and my right, to the death if necessary, literally and figuratively, to keep that right for us all... that I may not agree with what he said, but that I would defend his right to say it...

Many people have done just that, having died for our right to freely express our opinions, and to sit here and disagree... and my comment was actually respectful, not insulting, of that sacrifice, by acknowledging that while I may disagree, I am not saying he doesn't have a right to say it...

So, in short, I was saying that I disagree with his opinion, but that I still feel he has the right to say it... so that it wouldn't be misconstrued that by my disagreeing with him that I felt he didn't have that right, because he does...

Not realizing that it could be misconstrued a whole other way...

And just because you wear a uniform does not mean you're willing to defend this country any more than I am... you don't know whether or not if I do, or have ever worn that uniform... but regardless, I found it insulting to me for you to take my comment, which was actually supportive of his right to have his opinions whether I agreed with them or not, and twist it around to something more sinister... but hopefully that was just an honest misunderstanding on your part...

Oh, and Happy Fourth of July to you, too! 



GoHokies! said:


> Not sure why this release is getting slammed so hard, unless I'm missing something, our Tivo's still basically work. Like jfh siad, the release doesn't "break" our Tivo - they still work. Anyone that expects perfection out of a x.x0 release is a damn fool. Once 7.31 comes around things will settle down. Until then, I'll just be glad that Tivo got this one out the door and got us the new features instead of Beta testing to death.


 But I do agree with what you said in principle here, though...


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

OK kids, lets all take a deep breath, look at the  and breathe here.... We really are on the same page...

I didn't misunderstand you at all. I'm just saying that phrase gets thrown around a lot. Most of the time people saying think it's sounds pretty and have to idea at all what it means to be spending Midnight on Christmas Eve standing a watch thousands of miles away from home and family. Having done that and more, it is offensive to have people throw that little bit of Voltaire around without thinking about what it really means.

As far as my assumptions, I did assume that your avatar was a picture of you. If it isn't and you have served (or it is and your days in uniform are long passed), thanks for doing so and please accept my humblest apologies. If not, then no, you're not "just as willing as I am", because if you were, you would have.

The important part is the fact that we agree on the important part (that's the Tivo part ).

PS: I still think that some of you guys are knuckleheads for *****ing about this!


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

To those that understand my position: Thank you.

To those that don't:
I'll keep further posts in this thread limited to the admirable reason RoyK started it in the first place - to try and collect information on sall the 7.3 related problems in one place.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> Can you reproduce this one? What network adapters are involved?
> 
> I had a similar config for a while and never saw this over many transfers.
> 
> Unless it also happens under certain conditions for 7.3 to 7.3 transfers, I'm not sure this is worth anyone spending much time on, since the window of time for 7.2 to 7.3 combos is very limited.


I have had this one on 7.3 to 7.3 wired network.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I have had this one on 7.3 to 7.3 wired network.


And I have it on 7.3 to 7.3, WiFi. Fairly reliable - just start watching the transferred show while the transfer is still going.

Not too annoying, just quirky.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

RoyK said:


> If I were a "TiVo basher" I certainly wouldn't own 3 of the boxes and considering seriously the purchase of a fourth. I love my TiVo. I just want it to work the way I know it is capable of working.


 After going back and reading your post, and getting away from this thread for a few hours, I have to agree this is a good point...

TiVo is great, no one here is disputing it... the media touts us all as being very passionate about this product, and it's probably that passion that seems to have pitted us against one another, when we all probably agree that there are bugs, and we'd like to see them fixed... we all just have different ways of getting that point across, and therefore it's probably just misunderstandings more than anything that's at fault here...


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

mchips said:


> After going back and reading your post, and getting away from this thread for a few hours, I have to agree this is a good point...
> 
> TiVo is great, no one here is disputing it... the media touts us all as being very passionate about this product, and it's probably that passion that seems to have pitted us against one another, when we all probably agree that there are bugs, and we'd like to see them fixed... we all just have different ways of getting that point across, and therefore it's probably just misunderstandings more than anything that's at fault here...


 :up: :up: :up:


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

megazone said:


> And I have it on 7.3 to 7.3, WiFi. Fairly reliable - just start watching the transferred show while the transfer is still going.
> 
> Not too annoying, just quirky.


Darn, I was hoping that it would go away... At least I know that something isn't wrong with my boxes!


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

GoHokies! said:


> Thanks for putting this together and updating the OP!
> 
> I think this is a new one: Two Tivo's in the house, one 7.2 the other 7.3. When transferring a show and watching it while transfering, things go OK. However, when the show is over, instead of ending gracefully you get the "transfer interupted, go plug the Tivo back in to the network, dummy" error message.
> 
> It looks like the "end of recording" message or whatever isn't being handled properly between versions, and should fix itself when the second Tivo gets the bump. I figure if that's the case that someone else would have seen it... Anyone?


Actually, I must've been thinking of something else when I commented on this earlier.

I have the same problem (two Wireless G adapters involved).


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

Any word on when we will see a Software Update for all of these "7.3" bugs???


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

GoHokies! said:


> Darn, I was hoping that it would go away... At least I know that something isn't wrong with my boxes!


seems like it is just a flag not getting set right and thus the wrong dialog and action comes up. The whole recording still gets MRVed so it is just the annoyance of having to go back out and delete the show from the show menu or now playing instead of that great interface we have all come to love that is more intuitive in knowing the action we usually want to do.

and that is the crux of this thread I think. It is all these little details that are what set TiVo apart from the other DVRs and spawn the almost like a TiVo comparisons. So when the little details all get mangled in a major rewrite of how the screens will function people are upset and wish the release had been held up till that was cleaned up. I agree with that sentiment myself but

it is just the convenience details and I am sure that with some grunt work the developers will get them re-figured out and cleaned up. Plus it is these kinds of details best left to last on a major rewrite of code since there is not point in tweaking them back to working order when the major features are not settled in yet.

that is why x.x.0 releases are the way they are. We will see a patch release soon enough and the details will be working again. no need to panic.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

timstack8969 said:


> Any word on when we will see a Software Update for all of these "7.3" bugs???


"Second half of 2006".

No ... wait. That's for the other release everyone is waiting for ...


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

timstack8969 said:


> Any word on when we will see a Software Update for all of these "7.3" bugs???


Only thing I've heard from TiVo is "soon".


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> it is just the convenience details and I am sure that with some grunt work the developers will get them re-figured out and cleaned up. Plus it is these kinds of details best left to last on a major rewrite of code since there is not point in tweaking them back to working order when the major features are not settled in yet.
> 
> that is why x.x.0 releases are the way they are.


What? 

Those "convenience details" are what TiVo is about.


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## Narkul (Nov 7, 2004)

I occasionally can't delete a recording with the delete now option. After selecting delete now TiVo returns to the now playing list and the recording is still there. The show can only be deleted with the clear key. This has happened twice to me so far.


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## Narkul (Nov 7, 2004)

mchips said:


> This really isn't a bug, but I can see how you might see it that way.
> 
> It's by design, and is a byproduct of the new batch-like delete feature with this release.


I was aware of the multiple delete feature and have been using it when I have to zap multiple shows in a folder but sometimes when reading program information I prefer to just select delete now. Everything else I've deleted with the old method is gone instantly but twice I've had shows that would not leave even after several minutes.

I deleted a partially viewed Law and Order last night and now its back in the now playing list this morning with the resume play option intact.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Narkul said:


> I was aware of the multiple delete feature and have been using it ...


Thanks for the clarification -- and for proving I wasn't dreaming that mchips posted a possible explanation. Guess he withdrew it.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

RoyK said:


> Guess he withdrew it.


 Yep, I withdrew it before he replied to it... I withdrew it to allow him to post his bug unheeded...

Just a note that these isolated issues that only one or two people experience, and then only a couple of times themselves, will probably be the hardest to fix... if TiVo can't reproduce it, they may not be able to fix it, but I'm sure they will try...

After reading his post, I went through and deleted over 3 dozen programs via Delete Now to see if I could reproduce it and maybe help validate his issue, but I couldn't, and I've never seen a show reappear after it has been deleted, but I'm not saying he didn't, but then even he said it doesn't happen all of the time, and only twice so far on the delete issue, and once on the re-emergence, so it may be too intermittent and take several more deletes, or a very specific sequence of steps, before I see it too...

But we also have to be open to the possibility that sometimes people think they saw something, when in reality it was something else... it happens all of the time, so, part of the challenge to developers and those in customer service is sorting through all of that...


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

mchips said:


> Yep, I withdrew it before he replied to it... I withdrew it to allow him to post his bug unheeded...
> 
> Just a note that these isolated issues that only one or two people experience, and then only a couple of times themselves, will probably be the hardest to fix... if TiVo can't reproduce it, they may not be able to fix it, but I'm sure they will try...
> 
> ...


Yep. I know those can be real bears to find and fix. Funny how my hair grew back in after I retired... 

Roy


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## Narkul (Nov 7, 2004)

mchips said:


> Just a note that these isolated issues that only one or two people experience, and then only a couple of times themselves, will probably be the hardest to fix... if TiVo can't reproduce it, they may not be able to fix it, but I'm sure they will try...


Well it sucks being the only one to report this and I kinda hope its a bug and not some indication of my TiVo fixing to crash and burn. Fortunately its only happened two times and a week apart with lots of activity in between.

Here's a little more info. The first show that would not delete was an ARWL item, and that occured about a week and a half ago, and after looking in my recently deleted folder I realized the second show to refuse deletion was the reappearing Law and Order which was an MRV transfered show. It deleted without incident this morning. I deleted a bunch more stuff this morning and no problems. The ARWL show was recorded prior to the 7.3 update and the Law and Order was transferred just a few days ago.


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## MasterOfPuppets (Jul 12, 2005)

I'm at work and don't have time to sift through all 8 pages of replies...
But I absolutely HATE that if you delete things from your To Do List, you can no longer simply hit the "Clear" button to delete it...and then if you do go through all the manual steps, it kicks you back to the very beginning of your To Do List...
Someone needs to have the taste slapped out of their mouth...


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

MasterOfPuppets said:


> I'm at work and don't have time to sift through all 8 pages of replies...
> But I absolutely HATE that if you delete things from your To Do List, you can no longer simply hit the "Clear" button to delete it...and then if you do go through all the manual steps, it kicks you back to the very beginning of your To Do List...
> Someone needs to have the taste slapped out of their mouth...


Does the same thing in the delete folder, but one does not delete much from that folder unless you have recorded something you don't want the wife..er kids to know about.


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## SMB-IL (Mar 5, 2003)

Stu_Bee said:


> I'm curious as to whether anyone has recently received the 7.3, that didn't specifically request it. (ie whether Tivo is still pushing out the new/buggy version).


I'm only on Page 2 of this thread, but yes, I received this "update" last night (6/30) and all of the bugs listed above are still there. I did NOT request this update in advance and am VERY annoyed by it so far!

To save another post, I don't know if this has been mentioned and I apologize if it has already been listed:

When pressing "Play" from a recorded program's description screen, I get the program's description banner at the top of the screen. This used to only happen if you pressed "Play" directly from the Now Playing list. Not a huge deal, but kind of annoying.

I have Pioneer 57-H DVD recorder, service number 275.


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## naybag (Feb 23, 2005)

On ToDo List Issues...

Thank goodness! I thought I was going crazy with the To Do List going back to page one every time I deleted an item. If I delete the 4th item on page 3, it takes you back to the 4th item on page 1. So irritating!


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

SMB-IL said:


> I'm only on Page 2 of this thread, but yes, I received this "update" last night (6/30) and all of the bugs listed above are still there. I did NOT request this update in advance and am VERY annoyed by it so far!


Why not call customer assistance and voice your opinion?


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## Archonosx (Sep 3, 2005)

Yeah so they give me this upgrade I don't need 'cause I don't have any young kids and my stop button quits working.

STOP BUTTON STOPPED WORKING!

Did you hear that TiVo?

Now the only way to stop playing a recording is to hit the TiVo button which takes you back to the main menu instead of the recording menu.

Irritating. Grrrrrrrrr!!!
Archon


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Archonosx said:


> Now the only way to stop playing a recording is to hit the TiVo button which takes you back to the main menu instead of the recording menu


Left arrow button?

The Stop button is a known issue acknowledged by TiVo, it will be fixed in an update.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Archonosx said:


> Yeah so they give me this upgrade I don't need 'cause I don't have any young kids and my stop button quits working.
> 
> STOP BUTTON STOPPED WORKING!
> 
> ...


It seems that those who do not have DVD combo models don't have a stop button on their remotes. Instead they use the left arrow button which is at least easier than backing out to the main menu. It should work on your remote too.
Roy


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

gonzotek said:


> Left arrow button?
> 
> The Stop button is a known issue acknowledged by TiVo, it will be fixed in an update.


Yes, but that doesn't help most people with these units. Most users do not know to use the left arrow. So they are just experiencing bad functionality right now. Something like this should of never made it through testing. Now, these users may have to wait a month or more for a fix.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

rainwater said:


> Yes, but that doesn't help most people with these units. Most users do not know to use the left arrow. So they are just experiencing bad functionality right now.


 I don't know... that's where I'm less pessimistic, and believe that most probably are intuitive enough to know that the stop button isn't the only way to exit... only DVD-TiVo remotes have a stop button, and most people I've talked to with a DVD-TiVo know the left-arrow also exits a recording, which is how most of us have to do it anyway...

I was able to figure it out without anyone else telling me... so it may be the exception that don't know it or can't figure it out for themselves, and for them, they have this forum or CS to find it out...

Although we can't really debate that, as I'm sure neither of us has actually done any formal studies on just how many people do know it...

But, Gonzo is helping by informing people there is more than one way to exit a program that yields the same results... if nobody pointed it out, then that would be not helping...


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

mchips said:


> But, Gonzo is helping by informing people there is more than one way to exit a program that yields the same results... if nobody pointed it out, then that would be not helping...


Of course its helpful. Otherwise he wouldn't be pointing it out. 

I just don't understand how something like this makes it into production.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

mchips said:


> I don't know... that's where I'm less pessimistic, and believe that most probably are intuitive enough to know that the stop button isn't the only way to exit... only DVD-TiVo remotes have a stop button, and most people I've talked to with a DVD-TiVo know the left-arrow also exits a recording, which is how most of us have to do it anyway...


My experience differs. I have only DVD-TiVo units and so does the only other TiVo user I know locally. All of us in our two families are quite naturally accustomed to stopping by use of the stop button. To us using the left arrow for stopping is neather intuitive nor natural. None of us knew of that function for the left arrow until I read it here and passed it along.

"How most of us have to do it anyway" has nothing to do with anything. Why should we be expected to know how most have to do it?

Archonosx's obvious frustration is natural and understandable. In this case there is a simple work-around until TiVo gets its act together. Gonz pointed that out. I don't think he meant it that way but his response seemed just a bit on the 'duh - don't you know about the left arrow dummy' side at least to me.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

SMB-IL said:


> I'm only on Page 2 of this thread, but yes, I received this "update" last night (6/30) and all of the bugs listed above are still there. I did NOT request this update in advance and am VERY annoyed by it so far!
> .


this comes about as TiVo inc. does pick a random amount of TiVo DVRs to get any update and sends it out unbeknowst to the owner. The idea is to get a handle on the CSR load so they can gauge how to throttle the rollout.

so it is a good idea as RoyK suggests to call in with the bugs if you get this release randomly so TiVo knows that these bugs are obvious to the user and will be more likely to hold off until the patch is ready.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> What?
> 
> Those "convenience details" are what TiVo is about.


well if you had quoted the top part of my post as well you would see I do note that rather specifically. That is the crux of this thread and the bugs are well noted.

but my comment on this still stands that this has been the way for each major release upgrade, a patch soon follows and that many other major releases from many companies follows the same hassle.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

RoyK said:


> Archonosx's obvious frustration is natural and understandable. In this case there is a simple work-around until TiVo gets its act together. Gonz pointed that out. I don't think he meant it that way but his response seemed just a bit on the 'duh - don't you know about the left arrow dummy' side at least to me.


 That's exactly my point... the difference between those that think positively, and those that think negatively...

I read his post as helpful, and the question-mark as more asking if he knew it or not...

You read into it "dummy" and "duh", neither of which was stated...

I am glad, however, to see you also then say that you don't feel he meant it that way, and with that in mind, how someone interprets what someone else has said is often more of a reflection on the person interpreting it than it is the person stating it... psych-101, where people put their own feelings and experiences onto what others are saying... it is more difficult to get intent across in writing than it is in speech, and even then, 5 people can hear the same speech and walk away from it with five different interpretations...

Which just goes back to "misunderstandings" being at the crux of many of the disagreements here... I do feel that you've misunderstood some things I just said and my intent, but I've decided not to address them all individually so that we don't end up going back and forth endlessly...

But will say that by pointing out there is a work-around does not take away from his frustration, but can actually help to reduce it, for those willing to accept an alternative way of doing something... I have found one or two bugs frustrating myself...

The point that most TiVo owners use the left-arrow is just illustrating that it is a viable alternative, and I don't think unreasonable for Gonzo to have therefore pointed that out...

I don't disagree that there will be examples of people who don't find it intuitive, like you and your friend... I was just pointing out that we can't say "that doesn't help most people" because we don't know how "most people" feel...


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> but my comment on this still stands that this has been the way for each major release upgrade, a patch soon follows ......


Unfortunately we agree on that point at least.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

mchips said:


> That's exactly my point... the difference between those that think positively, and those that think negatively...
> 
> I read his post as helpful, and the question-mark as more asking if he knew it or not...
> 
> You read into it "dummy" and "duh", neither of which was stated...


OK, as I said I didn't think it was meant that way at all.

Anyhow he now knows the workaround and that's what's important.

The main point I was trying to make is that people who don't frequent this forum or others-- the bulk of the users -- don't have the benefit of these tidbits. They will have to live with their frustrations for a month or two until their units magically heal themselves.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

RoyK said:


> I don't think he meant it that way but his response seemed just a bit on the 'duh - don't you know about the left arrow dummy' side at least to me.





RoyK said:


> OK, as I said I didn't think it was meant that way at all.


 Which I did not neglect to point out immediately following what you quoted:



mchips said:


> I am glad, however, to see you also then say that you don't feel he meant it that way, and with that in mind...


 I'm now glad to see you add that you don't feel he meant it that way "at all".



RoyK said:


> Anyhow he now knows the workaround and that's what's important.
> 
> The main point I was trying to make is that people who don't frequent this forum or others-- the bulk of the users -- don't have the benefit of these tidbits. They will have to live with their frustrations for a month or two until their units magically heal themselves.


 True, and some people will better be able to deal with them than others, and those that don't frequent here will have themselves, their friends, families, and customer service to learn from...

And as a result, "the bulk of the users" will be unaware of as many bugs, since they won't be frequenting this forum to see your list.

Many have already stated, "wow, I didn't realize there were so many," as we're not all affected by the same ones nor as severely...

<edit>
But again, I'm not trying to take away from the fact that there are bugs, and we'd all like to see them fixed.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Unfortunately we agree on that point at least.


so you are saying you do not agree that other companies have the same issues of getting all the details down in time for the initial major version releases of software and thus do not do the same thing of following up with .1 releases fairly soon after the major .0 release ??

PS - the left arrow navigation is in every manual that goes out with a TiVo and is very intuitive and even marked on the interface in many places with the arrow guides


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> PS - the left arrow navigation is in every manual that goes out with a TiVo


Yep - you're right. Its there in my manual right beside the instruction for using the stop button. Problem is once you get used to using the stop button you expect it to, er, stop.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

My post used a question mark because I wasn't 100% certain that it would work for the DVD unit since I don't own one and maybe (just maybe) Archonosx had already tried and eliminated the possibility. I also noted that this issue had been acknowledged by TiVo(in contrast to other bugs noted in this thread and forum). I thought that Archonosx would appreciate that information.


RoyK said:


> The main point I was trying to make is that people who don't frequent this forum or others-- the bulk of the users -- don't have the benefit of these tidbits. They will have to live with their frustrations for a month or two until their units magically heal themselves.


Or call CS and get the issue logged as well as (hopefully) get a workaround, as in this case.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Yep - you're right. Its there in my manual right beside the instruction for using the stop button. Problem is once you get used to using the stop button you expect it to, er, stop.


you are losing a lot of credibility now RoyK. selective quoting and ignoring parts of posts shows you are trying to just push your side and not really have a discussion on the issues.

you totally ignored the point that this is not exactly an issue limited to only the company TiVo. It is a software development/business needs issue that is at the heart of the hard job of Quality Assurance. Every software development shop suffers these exact same issues as the bugs here. It is a very valid point in this bug list.

if this thread stands a few months from now with majority of bugs still not fixed - that is when you say the QA job at TiVo has broken down.

and we have all already agreed that the stop button has a bug so repeating that is just another dodge of a real discussion


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> you are losing a lot of credibility now RoyK. selective quoting and ignoring parts of posts shows you are trying to just push your side and not really have a discussion on the issues.


This thread isn't about my credibility or yours. The list of bugs is there and stands on its own. I didn't report these problems those who encountered them did.

You may think that its normal and acceptable. I certainly don't. Others will draw their own conclusions.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

RoyK said:


> Yep - you're right. Its there in my manual right beside the instruction for using the stop button.


 I have to give you credit for publicly admitting that... :up:

And you are right that once people get used to something a certain way, whether it's the primarily-intended way or not, they do expect it to continue working that way... but at least there is a method that yields the same results until it's fixed...


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> This thread isn't about my credibility or yours. The list of bugs is there and stands on its own. I didn't report these problems those who encountered them did.
> 
> You may think that its normal and acceptable. I certainly don't. Others will draw their own conclusions.


well I do not think it normal to think any company acts within a perfect vacuum. The company I work at certainly does not and I am in meetings weekly on this very type of issue.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> well I do not think it normal to think any company acts within a perfect vacuum.


 I agree, and I've heard many psychologists say the key to reducing frustration and stress in many people's lives begins with accepting that imperfection is indeed normal...


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

mchips said:


> I agree, and I've heard many psychologists say the key to reducing frustration and stress in many people's lives begins with accepting that imperfection is indeed normal...


Since 7.3 I have lost parts of 7 recordings because of the lockup issue. I guess I just have to accept that this is how TiVo is going to be going forward?

I understand issues will always come up with new releases. But some of these issues should of held up the release whether it affects you or not. It's great that there are workarounds to some of these issues (mono sound on DT, stop on DVD units), but I think thats where people on this board fail to realize what a small proportion of users visit here.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

rainwater said:


> Since 7.3 I have lost parts of 7 recordings because of the lockup issue. I guess I just have to accept that this is how TiVo is going to be going forward?
> 
> I understand issues will always come up with new releases. But some of these issues should of held up the release whether it affects you or not. It's great that there are workarounds to some of these issues (mono sound on DT, stop on DVD units), but I think thats where people on this board fail to realize what a small proportion of users visit here.


 I might remind you that you, yourself, stated the lockups that you are experiencing started before 7.3, so 7.3 didn't cause them, so there's no need to halt it because of that because it is not the cause of it, nor will halting it stop any additional lock-ups...

We've already had this discussion once, and you didn't understand what we were saying about it then, but since you're repeating yourself on the topic, I will repeat myself...

I have five TiVo's, three of which are DT's, and I have not lost a single recording... I'm sorry that you have, but 7.3 does not seem to be the cause of it since it started before 7.3 with you... I know it's devastating to the person(s) experiencing it, and people often think that because something is happening to them, it must be happening to everyone else, but that just isn't necessarily true...

There will almost always be lock-ups and reboot issues affecting a small percentage when it comes to electronics, so you can't expect perfection, even with this... if you do, then all electronic devices would halt production immediately... businesses have to look at how many people are affected, not just whether or not something is affecting some users, because perfection just isn't possible, and how people operate their own equipment, which cannot be controlled by the manufacturer, also is a factor in the problems people experience, so there are too many uncontrollable variables involved to achieve perfection... there's nothing wrong with striving for perfection, as that can limit the number of problems, the problem comes in expecting perfection...

So, it isn't as simple as, well if it affects anyone, then it must be halted...

PC's lock up all the time, and that hasn't stopped PC's from continuing to roll-out, and from people continuing to buy them...

You, yourself, stated that 7.3 didn't cause your lock-ups, so halting 7.3 is not going to prevent your lock-ups, because you were getting them before 7.3 anyway...

I do know of one lock-up issue, affecting certain users under certain circumstances, that has been fixed in 7.3, so those people I'm sure are appreciating 7.3...


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

mchips said:


> I know it's devastating to the person(s) experiencing it, and people often think that because something is happening to them, it must be happening to everyone else, but that just isn't necessarily true...


Its been reported on this forum by atleast 4 others (check the help forum as well). It is not just me. It is not a special hardware issue (like using a certain usb adapter, etc). So it "can" affect any DT user. Btw, whether it started in 7.3 or before, TiVo isn't going to release a 7.2.5a bug fix release so they *must* be using the current 7.3 codebase to fix the issue.


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## Archonosx (Sep 3, 2005)

rainwater said:


> Yes, but that doesn't help most people with these units. Most users do not know to use the left arrow. So they are just experiencing bad functionality right now. Something like this should of never made it through testing. Now, these users may have to wait a month or more for a fix.


Yes I have a Pioneer with DVD burner TiVo and have always used the stop button. Never knew you could use the left arrow until now. Left arrow works fine but I want my stop button back.

Thanks for the info
Archon


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

lkplatow said:


> I had no idea it was coming, as I just use Tivo, I don't keep up with all the news.
> 
> I read the first 3 pages of this thread looking for mentions of my bugs but didn't see them. I haven't encountered any of the other stuff, but then I don't do much besides play the shows that have recorded on my season passes.
> 
> ...


When playing a show and you need to stop, try using the back < arrow on the remote and wait, the play selection should change to resume playing. I am finding that some of bug(s) are a poor response time between the remote and the TiVo.


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## sakura panda (Apr 6, 2004)

Johncv said:


> When playing a show and you need to stop, try using the back < arrow on the remote and wait, the play selection should change to resume playing. I am finding that some of bug(s) are a poor response time between the remote and the TiVo.


I have a Toshiba SD-400 and nothing stops the program anymore except to pause it -- I also can't back out of the program at all -- not when I'm playing, not when I'm paused -- I have to jump all the way to the end and let it play out or I have to jump back to the beginning and THEN use the left arrow. Neither arrow works when I'm in the middle of a program.

It is very frustrating, because with a two-year old, I'm in the habit of watching programs is little snippets when I can, and also stopping his programs when he loses interest. Having to do all these extra steps had led me to just turn off the TV (or switch away from the TiVo) and let the show play out.

I am glad to see that it is a known issue (I haven't checked my Pioneer box yet although that one -- my first TiVo -- usually gets its updates later than my Toshiba does.) It's less frustrating to know it isn't just my box! 

--Katie


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

sakura panda said:


> I have a Toshiba SD-400 and nothing stops the program anymore except to pause it -- I also can't back out of the program at all -- not when I'm playing, not when I'm paused -- I have to jump all the way to the end and let it play out or I have to jump back to the beginning and THEN use the left arrow. Neither arrow works when I'm in the middle of a program.
> 
> It is very frustrating, because with a two-year old, I'm in the habit of watching programs is little snippets when I can, and also stopping his programs when he loses interest. Having to do all these extra steps had led me to just turn off the TV (or switch away from the TiVo) and let the show play out.
> 
> ...


Sorry it did not help. This must mean that Toshiba did not follow the TiVo spec completely. Can anyone on this list verify this? Are other TiVo"s having the same or difference problems?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

sakura panda said:


> I have a Toshiba SD-400 and nothing stops the program anymore except to pause it -- I also can't back out of the program at all -- not when I'm playing, not when I'm paused -- I have to jump all the way to the end and let it play out or I have to jump back to the beginning and THEN use the left arrow. Neither arrow works when I'm in the middle of a program.
> 
> It is very frustrating, because with a two-year old, I'm in the habit of watching programs is little snippets when I can, and also stopping his programs when he loses interest. Having to do all these extra steps had led me to just turn off the TV (or switch away from the TiVo) and let the show play out.
> 
> ...


I have an SD H400 that is not having this problem. I do have a Toshiba DVD burner model that is taking about 2 seconds to respond to things like FF and sometimes up to 5 seconds to respond to the left arrow to exit out of a playing show.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

sakura panda said:


> I have a Toshiba SD-400 and nothing stops the program anymore except to pause it -- I also can't back out of the program at all -- not when I'm playing, not when I'm paused -- I have to jump all the way to the end and let it play out or I have to jump back to the beginning and THEN use the left arrow. Neither arrow works when I'm in the middle of a program.


I don't have the SD-400 (or 7.3 for that matter), but can you hit the TiVo button to get out of the program? It's not as nice as backing out of it, but it should save the current play position.

Also just a FYI to everyone reading the thread. Only a handful of the issues posting in the first post have been acknowledged by TiVo as actual bugs. The others could be bugs (likely if reported by more than one person) or they could problems with a specific TiVo (likely if a bug is reported by only one person).


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

morac said:


> I don't have the SD-400 (or 7.3 for that matter), but can you hit the TiVo button to get out of the program? It's not as nice as backing out of it, but it should save the current play position.
> 
> Also just a FYI to everyone reading the thread. Only a handful of the issues posting in the first post have been acknowledged by TiVo as actual bugs. The others could be bugs (likely if reported by more than one person) or they could problems with a specific TiVo (likely if a bug is reported by only one person).


Few if any have reported having all the problems in the list however most of the bugs have been reported or confirmed by more than one persion.


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## RawisTheGameHhH (May 25, 2005)

do we have an ETA on a fix, I hope so..........


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

RawisTheGameHhH said:


> do we have an ETA on a fix, I hope so..........


 No official word from TiVo, yet, but based on past experience, I wouldn't be surprised to see it out any day now...


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

mchips said:


> No official word from TiVo, yet, but based on past experience, I wouldn't be surprised to see it out any day now...


Actually, 7.3 hasn't even finished rolling out to all users yet. It will be atleast a month or two before we see updates. Obviously TiVo doesn't see any of these issues as "major" enough to block a release, so I don't see them rushing any fixes.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

rainwater said:


> Actually, 7.3 hasn't even finished rolling out to all users yet. It will be atleast a month or two before we see updates. Obviously TiVo doesn't see any of these issues as "major" enough to block a release, so I don't see them rushing any fixes.


TiVo also has never waited on a full rollout to be done before rolling out a patch. And just because they saw no showstoppers and thus started rolling out the features does NOT mean they are not working the fixes as we speak. You have a lot of pessimistic assumptions in your post


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

rainwater said:


> Actually, 7.3 hasn't even finished rolling out to all users yet. It will be atleast a month or two before we see updates. Obviously TiVo doesn't see any of these issues as "major" enough to block a release, so I don't see them rushing any fixes.


 Actually.... they don't have to roll it out to all users before they can apply the next update... each update is not contingent on the other already being there... 

So, based on these inaccuracies in your post, I wouldn't be inclined to believe that you're correct about the month or two either...


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

rainwater said:


> Actually, 7.3 hasn't even finished rolling out to all users yet. It will be atleast a month or two before we see updates. Obviously TiVo doesn't see any of these issues as "major" enough to block a release, so I don't see them rushing any fixes.


As Zeo and mchips said, there are documented examples in recent history of TiVo sending a patch release out before the previous release had even finished rolling to all customers. Those who weren't yet updated went straight to the newest codebase.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

gonzotek said:


> As Zeo and mchips said, there are documented examples in recent history of TiVo sending a patch release out before the previous release had even finished rolling to all customers. Those who weren't yet updated went straight to the newest codebase.


Yes, I agree with you. However, like I said, I don't think TiVo sees any of these issues as major enough to warrant such a release. Also, some of these changes are rather complicated fixes that can't be pushed out immediately and will require testing.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

rainwater said:


> I don't think TiVo sees any of these issues as major enough to warrant such a release.


what information are you using to form this thought ?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> what information are you using to form this thought ?


The fact that it took TiVo almost 2 months to even acknowledge the mono issue on DT boxes. And now they are "investigating". This tells me they are not ready to produce any new releases fixing that issue. I was told the lockup issue couldn't even be reproduced in their labs even though atleast 4 or 5 people on this forum have had this issue multiple times.


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## purefct (Dec 3, 2003)

Tivo told me the 2 To Do screen problems were intentional program changes. 
- can no longer press the Clear button to delete a show from the To Do screen
- when you delete a show in the To Do list in version 7.3 software, you are returned to the beginning of the To Do list. 

I have a lifetime and monthly S2. I cancelled the service on my monthly Tivo. You'll all most likely consider my action rash, but when a supervisor tells me I'm just one customer and while he'll submit my "enhancement request" there's nothing I can do to have these corrected, I spoke with my money by cancelling. I figure there's not much impact I can have on the lifetime, but I'm not giving any more money to a company to downgrade my service.

Heck, why would Tivo eliminate the delete confirmation in "Now Playing" and add the Deleted folder, then turn aroung in "To Do" and make it harder to cancel? They should eliminate the confirm delete there also, ad the clear from the "To Do" screen back in, and at the top, above "Recording History" add a Deleted folder!


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

purefct said:


> - when you delete a show in the To Do list in version 7.3 software, you are returned to the beginning of the To Do list.


Except it doesn't actually do that. It just moves you up a page or so but not the the beginning unless you were already near the top of the todo list.


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## purefct (Dec 3, 2003)

I've got a S2 240 and it doesn't matter where I am in the "To Do", be it the 2nd page or the 8th. When I cancel a scheduled show and confirm the cancellation I am returned to the 1st page of "To Do". I'm not on the first show, but I am definitely returned to the 1st page. It normally takes me 5-10 minutes twice a week to clear two weeks of shows I've already seen but now it's taking closer to 15-25 (longer after a download, shorter before a download). Since I spend a bit of time in here (I've trimmed down from 200+ season pass and wish list to 100+) and I went to verify it just to be accurate, I know what I'm saying.

If you live close to Brea CA I'll let you come look.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

rainwater said:


> The fact that it took TiVo almost 2 months to even acknowledge the mono issue on DT boxes. And now they are "investigating". This tells me they are not ready to produce any new releases fixing that issue. I was told the lockup issue couldn't even be reproduced in their labs even though atleast 4 or 5 people on this forum have had this issue multiple times.


well now you have moved from releasing a patch on the bulk of the bugs in this thread to two very specific bugs both of which are most likely hard to fix. Since a workaround was posted in the help forums on the mono sound it is actually likely that TiVo has the info needed to come up witha fix to that one in the patch to come.


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## sakura panda (Apr 6, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I have an SD H400 that is not having this problem. I do have a Toshiba DVD burner model that is taking about 2 seconds to respond to things like FF and sometimes up to 5 seconds to respond to the left arrow to exit out of a playing show.


Five seconds? I suppose it could be that I'm not waiting long enough....I haven't watched anything over the past couple of days, but I'll try it again and try to be patient. 

I'm sure hitting the TiVo button would work, since it seems stop is the only button that doesn't function at all; it's just a new habit I'll have to get into after doing it the intuitive way for so long. 

Thanks for the suggestions!

--Katie


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

purefct said:


> (I've trimmed down from 200+ season pass and wish list to 100+)


Holy explatives deleted Batman!!! I thought that I had a lot with about 30 sp's and 2 ARWL's!!!! I can't even fathom having my Tivo record that much, let alone actually watch it!!!


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> well now you have moved from releasing a patch on the bulk of the bugs in this thread to two very specific bugs both of which are most likely hard to fix. Since a workaround was posted in the help forums on the mono sound it is actually likely that TiVo has the info needed to come up witha fix to that one in the patch to come.


It's not clear whether the mono issue is a software issue or a bug in the hardware interface implementation. So I wouldn't say they have an easy fix by following the steps used in the other thread. Also, many of these bugs will require a good bit of work and testing before they are able to put them into production. I'm not complaining about the time it will take because I understand producing a release isn't a quick process.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

mchips said:


> most probably are intuitive enough to know that the stop button isn't the only way to exit... only DVD-TiVo remotes have a stop button, and most people I've talked to with a DVD-TiVo know the left-arrow also exits a recording, which is how most of us have to do it anyway...


Well, I didn't even know that the stop button worked on the Tivo part of the unit until I read this thread - always thought it was just for the DVD. But then I had DirecTivo units and a 540 before I got the Humax DVD box, so I've always used left arrow anyway.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

purefct said:


> Tivo told me the 2 To Do screen problems were intentional program changes.
> - can no longer press the Clear button to delete a show from the To Do screen
> - when you delete a show in the To Do list in version 7.3 software, you are returned to the beginning of the To Do list.


Always take what a CSR, even a Tivo CSR tells you with a large grain of salt.

Whoever told you that doesn't know what they are talking about.

The "Clear from Todo" is documented in the Viewer's Guide and the behavior in 7.3 is a well-documented, acknowledged bug.

The second one you mention is also a bug, introduced in a prior release.


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## purefct (Dec 3, 2003)

GoHokies! said:


> Holy explatives deleted Batman!!! I thought that I had a lot with about 30 sp's and 2 ARWL's!!!! I can't even fathom having my Tivo record that much, let alone actually watch it!!!


It's true, I don't watch a lot of it. I check the first minute of show content, skip ahead if it looks uninteresting to check another minute or so, then delete. At 200+ I would record maybe 100 hours and watch 5-30. Now for 100 hours I watch 25-50, but I'm recording less than half of what I used to. At one point I had over 100 WL for actors, which I've trimmed below 40 and I eliminated a large number of do it yourself and real estate shows. One WL I like is based on keyword by year (2004, 2005, 2006 all in Movies). Those 3 now account for over 75% of what I record and most I delete within 5 minutes of watching.

With the huge volume of recorded shows, I use the thumbs to rate and remind me what I've seen. That's why the two bugs in ToDo are adding a lot of time for me to clear shows I've already seen/recorded.


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## purefct (Dec 3, 2003)

jfh3 said:


> Always take what a CSR, even a Tivo CSR tells you with a large grain of salt.
> 
> Whoever told you that doesn't know what they are talking about.
> 
> ...


Normally I agree with you about the TCSR. But when I asked for a Super in tech support, the Super said the same thing. I even called back later to verify what was entered for my case number and the third person agreed with the first two.

Just because we say it's a bug doesn't mean Tivo agrees. I'm not sure why you say "my" second bug was introduced in a prior release, it didn't manifest until 7.3 for me.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Wow, that's really cool - I never thought of doing that. I usually feel guilty if I don't watch everything that I record


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

rainwater said:


> It's not clear whether the mono issue is a software issue or a bug in the hardware interface implementation. So I wouldn't say they have an easy fix by following the steps used in the other thread.


 I also did not say they had an easy fix by following the steps in the work around. I was implying that with the workaround knowledge - the developers can go through that and get the "Aha" moment of seeing what is wrong in the software or hardware interface implementation and that goes a long way to seeing how to fix it properly. Sometimes you get lucky and the fix is doable with minimal regression testing, sometimes it gets ugly and means modification all the way up the software stack. Time will tell us on this one what TiVo most likely already knows.



> Also, many of these bugs will require a good bit of work and testing before they are able to put them into production. I'm not complaining about the time it will take because I understand producing a release isn't a quick process.


 Yes they will and what information do you have that TiVo is not already working hard on coding the fixes and testing it. What information do you have that this thread was the first time TiVo heard about these bugs? For all we know TiVo may have known about these bugs for quite a while but these were the detail of the interface bugs best left to be fixed last after the major new components of the release were stable and it was the right time to clean up all the details.
This patch we are talking of is not a new release but the finishing details on the release that is 7.3 and a not uncommon update of that major release to the next minor version of 7.3.1. We have all seen this before with TiVoToGo release and in other companies release paths. The patch will be out soon, no need to worry


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Yes they will and what information do you have that TiVo is not already working hard on coding the fixes and testing it. What information do you have that this thread was the first time TiVo heard about these bugs?


I don't assume TiVo has even read this thread and I would hope that all of these bugs were known for a long time. Some of these bugs were introducted in 7.2x and still aren't fixed. So I'm sorry if I am not confident all of these bugs will be fixed in a day or two.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

rainwater said:


> So I'm sorry if I am not confident all of these bugs will be fixed in a day or two.


 On that we agree... a day or two isn't enough time to investigate the issue, reproduce it, if it is reproducible, so that they can find a fix, implement the fix, test the fix in their beta environment(s), and finally release it...

Unfortunately, if they can't reproduce it, like your lockup issue, it may take longer to fix... it doesn't mean they don't care, or think it isn't major, it just isn't something affecting enough people (only 4 or 5 by your numbers) to be easily reproduced...

There is a work-around for you, though, until it can be fixed... you say it happens under very specific conditions, when you press Live TV while watching a recorded program while it is still being recorded... just don't press Live TV while the program is still being recorded... 

It's like the guy who goes into the doctor's office and complains that it hurts when he lifts his arm up a certain way, so the doctor replies, then don't lift it up like that.

And if you can find a way to reproduce it 100% of the time, so that TiVo can reproduce it, then I'm sure a fix would not be far behind; i.e., work _with_ TiVo on it instead of working against them... just stating over and over that because it's happening to you and a small handful of others then they should be able to reproduce it and fix it, doesn't help... those of us that have tried reproducing it for you will side and understand with TiVo, because we can't reproduce it either...

If you're lucky, the next update might contain a fix for you... it doesn't hurt to think positively...


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

mchips said:


> Unfortunately, if they can't reproduce it, like your lockup issue, it may take longer to fix... it doesn't mean they don't care, or think it isn't major, it just isn't something affecting enough people (only 4 or 5 by your numbers) to be easily reproduced...
> 
> There is a work-around for you, though, until it can be fixed... you say it happens under very specific conditions, when you press Live TV while watching a recorded program while it is still being recorded... just don't press Live TV while the program is still being recorded...
> 
> ...


The issue is I can't tell everyone in my family to stop using the TiVo the way they always have because it will lockup. Some of my family members aren't very Tivo savvy if you know what I mean.

Also, the lockup issue is only one issue. What about bugs that have been in there since 7.2?

Regarding the lockup issue, it is not hard to duplicate. All you need to do is start recording a program that is >=2 hours and start watching it while its recording. Once the recording has finished hit live tv and the lockup will occur about 25% of the time. I suspect they might not duplicate it because they may not be testing with long recording times.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

sakura panda said:


> Five seconds? I suppose it could be that I'm not waiting long enough....I haven't watched anything over the past couple of days, but I'll try it again and try to be patient.
> 
> I'm sure hitting the TiVo button would work, since it seems stop is the only button that doesn't function at all; it's just a new habit I'll have to get into after doing it the intuitive way for so long.
> 
> ...


Just curious after the upgrade (or downgrade  ) when you started your TiVo did you receive an error message, something like error 384 and a restart button? I don't remember what the number was, I just hit the restart button and TiVo did it's song and dance launch screen and then into the main menu. After that everything seem to work fine.


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## zebo51 (Jun 2, 2006)

medhead said:


> No, I use the standard TiVo guide. When you click to the RIGHT to highlight the show that's already on, then go down to see the shows that will be coming up on the same station, when you scroll back up to the current show, the title bar lists "To be announced" and the description says "no information available." The name of the show stays the same in the guide itself. As far as I can tell, this behavior is consistent across all channels and at all times of the day.


I can confirm this one too on my S2DT Ver 7.3-oth-01-2-649.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Another bug I noticed is if you View Upcoming programs and have a program that is recording it shows a red recording icon. If you select that recording and cancel it, you return to View Upcoming programs and it will continue to show the recording icon until you exit that screen.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

rainwater said:


> Another bug I noticed is if you View Upcoming programs and have a program that is recording it shows a red recording icon. If you select that recording and cancel it, you return to View Upcoming programs and it will continue to show the recording icon until you exit that screen.


There have been a couple reports of odd behavior of the red recording icon.


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## supasta (May 6, 2006)

Not such a bug, but something to be improved:

I like the idea of the Recently Deleted folder, but I just wish that thery were listed with the most recently deleted at the top. Whenever I delete a program and it goes into that folder it goes alllll they way down to the bottom of the list there. Should it not be at the top of the page as it is the most recently deleted? Hmm...


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

supasta said:


> Not such a bug, but something to be improved:
> 
> I like the idea of the Recently Deleted folder, but I just wish that thery were listed with the most recently deleted at the top. Whenever I delete a program and it goes into that folder it goes alllll they way down to the bottom of the list there. Should it not be at the top of the page as it is the most recently deleted? Hmm...


Actually being at the bottom makes sense. It actually goes below the suggestions because deleted recordings are the first thing that will be deleted to make room for new recordings.

It's not hard to get to the bottom, just hit the advance (->) button.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

RoyK said:


> There have been a couple reports of odd behavior of the red recording icon.


A similar situation occurs with the message icon. After reading a message, the message icon doesn't disappear until you back all the way out to TiVo Central. The Messages & Settings screen still shows the icon while backing out.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

I just noticed this today.

It looks like they already have an update available to fix several of these 7.3 issues.

People can sign up for the 7.3.1 update via:
http://www.tivo.com/priority​


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## sakura panda (Apr 6, 2004)

Johncv said:


> Just curious after the upgrade (or downgrade  ) when you started your TiVo did you receive an error message, something like error 384 and a restart button? I don't remember what the number was, I just hit the restart button and TiVo did it's song and dance launch screen and then into the main menu. After that everything seem to work fine.


I just had the little song-and-dance interlude -- no error messages. The left arrow key seems to work most of the time -- it doesn't work at the beginning of a show, so I have to FF a bit, skip to the beginning and then left arrow if I select a show by mistake.

I did try to restart the system once, before I posted here, but I didn't notice any difference in anything afterwards.

--Katie


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## nhaigh (Jul 16, 2001)

Does TiVo post a list of things this update should fix?


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

nhaigh said:


> Does TiVo post a list of things this update should fix?


 Not typically, possibly for a number of reasons, including, but not limited to...


The average user doesn't care.
They often include many behind the scenes fixes that would mean nothing to us.
Often as a side-effect of fixing one issue, other issues may get fixed as well.
As noted in this thread, not all of these bugs affect everyone, so the full effect will not be known except by each individual as they test out the update for themselves.
If the list isn't all-inclusive, people can get unnecessarily riled up if they don't see their issue listed.
What we might see as three or four bugs could all be related and would therefore just be a single fix for TiVo, and if they just post that single fix that they made, it'll more than likely end up confusing some people as to why it's only one instead of three or four.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

nhaigh said:


> Does TiVo post a list of things this update should fix?


They haven't in the past, though I'm sure when people start getting 7.3.1 over the next few days we will see how many of the items on this 7.3 bug list are fixed.

Let's just hope all the naysayers get on the priority list


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## supasta (May 6, 2006)

morac said:


> Actually being at the bottom makes sense. It actually goes below the suggestions because deleted recordings are the first thing that will be deleted to make room for new recordings.
> 
> It's not hard to get to the bottom, just hit the advance (->) button.


Right, I get that part, but thats not to say that it would just be able to delete from the bottom if it were the other way around.

Now that I see your point, I guess it makes sense either way.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

nhaigh said:


> Does TiVo post a list of things this update should fix?


Not usually. I for one would appreciate it if those receiving the update and noting that things have been fixed would come back and let me know. I'll flag them in the original post.
Roy


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## illuminations25 (Jul 23, 2002)

mchips said:


> I just noticed this today.
> 
> It looks like they already have an update available to fix several of these 7.3 issues.
> 
> ...


Thank Goodness!

I just signed up hopefully it won't take 3 days to get.

I hope this fixes the picture issue I'm having on my DVD Humax 80hr Tivo and the other Tivo I have in my living room that cropped up after the 7.3 upgrade.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

supasta said:


> Right, I get that part, but thats not to say that it would just be able to delete from the bottom if it were the other way around.
> 
> Now that I see your point, I guess it makes sense either way.


Yeah, but when I look in the "Recently Deleted" folder, the first programs I want to see are the most recently deleted.


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## stiber (Sep 9, 2004)

Here's another bug, or perhaps misfeature. On an SH-H400 (and I presume other TiVos with integral DVD), Kidzone in effect makes it difficult (or impossible) to use your machine as a CD player. Why? Because to switch over to the CD/DVD player, you need to exit Kidzone, which requires entry of the preset code. It's annoying to have to start up the TV (time consuming, if you have a DLP unit that has a long warmup time) to see the UI so you can exit Kidzone. Yes, you can do it "blind", but hit the wrong button, and who knows where in the menu system you'll be.

This is also strange because the Kidzone has preferences for DVD ratings. How can this be applicable to Kidzone, when Kidzone has no control over/interface to the DVD player?

Anyway, I turned off Kidzone because of this. FYI, for any TiVo folks reading this, my main interest in it was the ability to have a list of programs just for the kids --- the separate "Now Playing" list. It would make it easier than hunting through the main list.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Now that 7.3.1 is being released is there a reason to keep reporting bugs in 7.3?


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## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

RoyK said:


> Not usually. I for one would appreciate it if those receiving the update and noting that things have been fixed would come back and let me know. I'll flag them in the original post.
> Roy





morac said:


> Now that 7.3.1 is being released is there a reason to keep reporting bugs in 7.3?


It would be great to have a "7.3.1 Bugs/Fixes" thread that lists everything from the original post in this thread as "unconfirmed", then they can be moved to "fixed" or "still present" as necessary.

(I never got 7.3.0)


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

morac said:


> Now that 7.3.1 is being released is there a reason to keep reporting bugs in 7.3?


Yes. Otherwise, we will not know what to check for in 7.3.1. The more bugs found the better. Then it will be easy to verify that they have been fixed.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

I can confirm 2 bugs that are still present:

-The play bar still shows the recording icon after a recording finishes. You have to edit and resume playing to get the icon to disappear.

- The TTG transfer screen still shows the KidZone icon (the screen that says gives you the option to "Watch on this TV".)

I haven't had time to test the other bugs listed yet.


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## JasonRossSmith (Jul 21, 2005)

I can confirm the update fixed both of my issues:

1) No Stereo issue (widely reported)
2) MRV transfers would only transfer from begining. They now can transfer from paused point as before.

Also, I never had the "slowness" issue but it does seem "faster" since the update.


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## netphoenix (Apr 30, 2006)

Go FasTA said:


> I have the exact same issue with my DT unit. The most annoying part about this for me was that I was watching a show that had been recording for about 3 hours (NASCAR race). The recording was still in progress, but the other tuner was idle. I assumed hitting the live TV button would switch me to the second tuner. I think in the 4+ years I've had TiVo, this might be the most annoying bug yet since it renders the machine useless without a hard reboot.


I've been dealing with 'random' reboots for a couple of weeks now (I've had the DT for about 2 months). On my first call, support told me it could be a flakey power strip or bad network cable. Shortly after that tech call, I discovered I could make the unit reboot by checking recording history. There was no discussion after that - they are replacing the unit.

-Chris


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

netphoenix said:


> I've been dealing with 'random' reboots for a couple of weeks now (I've had the DT for about 2 months). On my first call, support told me it could be a flakey power strip or bad network cable. Shortly after that tech call, I discovered I could make the unit reboot by checking recording history. There was no discussion after that - they are replacing the unit.


The reboot after checking recording history problem may also be related to a software bug (reportedly fixed in release 7.3.1)


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## NewYorkLaw (Dec 9, 2005)

I'm suddenly suffering from random reboots, too (since 7.3.1) and I never had them before. 
Both my machines (series2, 540 and 240) are affected.
Pete


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## bud8man (Feb 13, 2004)

I received the update on my 240 unit...and could not control it...and then a reboot....now I get it.
Thank goodness for the summer that unit is not used much.
Now if I could only keep my 540 from receiving the update I would be a much happier campier until they fix this bug.
Now would turning on KizZone affect this bug or once the software is loaded it is loaded. I was hoping that by not turning it on I would be safe....but now I recognize the problem.


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## grateshow (Sep 28, 2004)

Pioneer DVR-810H - I was checking what I might have had on some unmarked DVD-RWs that I found in a pile in my office. The first was blank and I copied a couple of shows that I was going to give to parents and in-laws. It seems the second disc that I placed in must be looping because it will not eject. Also, the DVR-810H will not go beyond the power on screen where TiVo says we are almost there. Any ideas?


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## bud8man (Feb 13, 2004)

you might power down and then on boot up try to open the tray


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Somewhere there should be the "paper clip" hole to allow you to manually eject the DVD.


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## grateshow (Sep 28, 2004)

I actually tried that and have also tried letting the unit remain unpluged for 30 min + then letting it power up for over three hours and still no luck. Talking with my father in law he suggested that I might be able to Jimmy it with the power off and a paper clip, but the drawer seems to have locked.


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## gambit3131 (Mar 24, 2005)

bud8man said:


> I received the update on my 240 unit...and could not control it...and then a reboot....now I get it.
> ...


I received the update Wednesday on my 540 Tivo (not hooked up through a cable box) and beside the fact that my g/f had to watch the tivo guy dance for an hour, no issues that I know of.

I received the update on my 590 Tivo last night. It is hooked up though a Comcast DCT2000. I turn on my TV this morning. I changed the channel to the news and after about 30 seconds of black screen I get a Tivo screen saying I think it was "Error 85 can't do requested command" or something. I click on LIVE TV and I have a black screen. I change the channel. I watch the cable box and the channels were changing. But still a black screen. I reboot the Tivo and everything works. Other than that I saw no problems. It even seems as though my channels change quicker through the cable box. But I only had 5 minutes to play with it before I had to leave for work.

This is the first time after a service update that I ever had problems with my reception.


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## gambit3131 (Mar 24, 2005)

Another issue I came across. When I am in the Guide and press in channel 301, the guide will go to channel 301, but will be highlighted on channel 305


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## Alcatraz (Nov 22, 2000)

gambit3131 said:


> Another issue I came across. When I am in the Guide and press in channel 301, the guide will go to channel 301, but will be highlighted on channel 305


Do you have 301 marked in the Channel List as a channel you receive? If not, this is expected behavior if 305 is the next highest channel that you have marked as received.


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## migennes (Jul 19, 2006)

I know I'm really late to this party but I do have a bug to add that I haven't seen mentioned yet. 

Used to be, if you were all the way in the information screen for a show in the Now Playing list and hit the "Play" button, it would take you right into the show and not show the Channel Banner/Show Info. If, on the other hand, you were in the Now Playing list (or within a folder) and highlighted the show, then pushed "Play" WITHOUT going into the show's screen, it would start playing and show the Channel Banner/Show Info over the show (and disappear within about 5 seconds or you could clear it out). Hope that all makes sense, I'm not sure of the exact terms. 

Now, with the new release, it does not matter where you are when you start to play the show. The screen always shows the Channel Banner/Show Info. It can be annoying because you have to take an extra step to clear it out (or wait, and not see the action on the TV!). 

I know this is minor, but I had gotten used to going all the way into the show's info screen if I didn't want to see the Channel Banner/Show Info when I pushed play. Pushing play from the Now Playing list was a shortcut I knew I could use if I wanted to see that information over my show instead of separately (or if I didn't care). Make sense? I did try to change it in options and settings but there wasn't an option for it. 

Any way, it bugged me enough that that after about a week of this I finally called Tivo and reported it. The rep told me that it was a bug she hadn't heard or seen yet either (she had two Tivos had home and had experienced some of the other bugs mentioned here). She put me on the list to receive the patch (should be within 3 days) and said that my other Tivo would received the "fixed" upgrade and not the buggy one when it came time. 

Also, I have a couple of ARWLs showing up blank in the to-do list and have experienced some slowness but not consistently. I had also transferred some programs to the computer that were showing up as partial recordings and now I wonder if it was really the duration time as mentioned in this thread. I will have to go check that out and see if the whole show is actually there. Oh, and I almost forgot - when I am at my Tivo and view the list of recordings on the computer, they all show the date they were transferred to the computer, not the date they originally aired. That had never happened before. BUT, that said, I recorded the shows, transferred them to the computer and deleted from Tivo, then months later transferred them back to Tivo and deleted from the computer; then changed my mind and put them back on the computer. I've never gone back and forth like that before. It matters because I recorded the entire season of the show and want to watch them in order. Now I need to refer to an episode list pulled off the web.

Guess that might just be two bugs then. Or not. Anyone else ever experienced that date changing thing?


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

migennes said:


> I know I'm really late to this party but I do have a bug to add that I haven't seen mentioned yet.
> 
> Used to be, if you were all the way in the information screen for a show in the Now Playing list and hit the "Play" button, it would take you right into the show and not show the Channel Banner/Show Info. If, on the other hand, you were in the Now Playing list (or within a folder) and highlighted the show, then pushed "Play" WITHOUT going into the show's screen, it would start playing and show the Channel Banner/Show Info over the show (and disappear within about 5 seconds or you could clear it out).


Actually, this one has been reported before.

As for your other issue - not sure if it's a bug or not. Sounds like the guide data wasn't available for Tivo to match the show id, but not sure how the original timestamp got lost.


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## migennes (Jul 19, 2006)

jfh3 said:


> Actually, this one has been reported before.


Must have gone blind after reading 11 pages of this thread.


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## sghogan (Mar 22, 2002)

What exactly will be the fix version (7.3.1) to look for. My current version shows.
7.3-oth-01-2-140
Thanks


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

The latest version is 7.3.1, and you can put yourself on the priority list if you would like to get it sooner rather than later (you don't have to add yourself to the priority list, and you will still get it eventually - the priority list is just for those who don't want to wait):
http://www.tivo.com/priority​


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## gambit3131 (Mar 24, 2005)

Alcatraz said:


> Do you have 301 marked in the Channel List as a channel you receive? If not, this is expected behavior if 305 is the next highest channel that you have marked as received.


Yes. I do have 301 on my channel list. What is happening is let say I am in the guide. channel 3 is the top most channel shown. I arrow down to channel 6 which is 3 spots lower. From there I enter 301 and press enter. The guide then goes to channel 301 as the top most channel, but the channel that is three spots lower is highlighted.

The highlighted channel is not reset to the top most channel like it used to be.


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## killme (May 9, 2004)

Still a few bugs that weren't fixed like the Guide and slow menus. (sigh). Is there a list somewhere?


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## LoTekJunky (Aug 18, 2006)

This just plain sucks. I never received the 7.3 version, but last night, my Tivo was upgraded to 7.3.1. The menu is incredibly sluggish, and 2 times in the last 12 hours (of which i was only watching tv about 2 hours), the tivo has rebooted itself. The first time was in transfering a recording to my PC, the whole thing black screened and took about 2 minutes before the dumb surfing Tivo image came up... at the same time, it hung my computer... great. The second time, I had live tv paused for 10 minutes, went into tivo central to view my software version, then backed out through the menus (my live tv button on the remote doesn't work), the TV was still paused when I returned, when I pressed play, it paused immediately, then showed the dancing/surfing tivo until i pressed select (about 10 seconds), then returned me immediately to my tivo show without the ability to rewind to where i was watching.

I've never ever had a problem with any Tivo upgrade, so this is disheartening. The wife has been wanting me to cancel our Tivo service and build another HTPC (MCE running in the living room), now I might have a reason...


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

any more fixes?


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## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

I saw a similar screenshot in a thread somewhere...but it's the first time it's happened to me (see attachment)

It occured when I started watching a show from the Now Playing list, that was still recording. When the show got to the very end (ie when it pauses for a second, then usually displays the delete menu screen), it displayed this instead.


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## cpetro (Dec 16, 2003)

8/23/06 - WELL LADIES & GENTLEMEN HERE IS THE LATEST FROM THE FOLKS AT THE TIVO EXECUTIVE COMPLAINTS DEPARTMENT (the phone number for this group and the executive offices is 408-519-9100 / CEO is Tom Rogers and Steve Sordello is the SVP & CFO) - SPECIFICALLY A GENTLEMAN NAMED ADAM, WHO WORKS FOR THE DIRECTOR OF THE CUSTOMER SUPPORT AREA, A JASON LENIEVE (spelling may be incorrect). I HAVE JUST BEEN ADVISED BY ADAM THAT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE TIVO FOLKS, THERE IS NO PROBLEM OTHER THAN A 1 TO 2 SECOND DELAY IN THE REMOTE FUNCTIONALITY, AND THEY ARE NOT WORKING ON A FIX - LET ME REPEAT THIS - "THEY ARE NOT WORKING ON A FIX" !!!. HE SEEMED UNAWARE (or acted as if to be unaware of this forums postings relative to the 7.3.1 issue) AND AFTER I ASKED TO SPEAK TO A SENIOR TECHNICAL PERSON TO DISCUSS THIS ISSUE, HE, AFTER REJECTING MY REQUEST, OFFERED TO REPLACE THE TWO UNITS I OWN. I ADVISED HIM I DID NOT WISH TO REPLACE THE UNITS BUT WANTED A TECHNICALLY CAPABLE PERSON TO SPEAK TO ME REGARDING THIS PROBLEM - WHICH I AM CONVINCED THE TIVO FOLKS ARE ATTEMPTING TO SWEEP UNDER THE CARPET. ESPECIALLY SINCE THEY DO NOT RECOGNIZE THIS AS A PROBLEM. A LITTLE BACKGROUND - I HAVE TWO UNITS, A TIVO 40 HRS UNIT AND A HUMAX 80 HRS UNIT. BOTH ARE EXPERIENCING THE SAME 5 TO 10 SECOND DELAYS, WITH THE ADDED ANNOYANCE OF THE PICTURE ON THE TIVO UNIT DIGITIZING/PIXELIZING FOR A 2 TO 3 SECOND PERIOD OF TIME (similar to a heavy rain) AND THEN CORRECTING ITSELF. BY THE WAY THE HUMAX CUSTOMER SUPPORT FOLKS ACKNOWLEDGED THIS AS A REPEATED CUSTOMER COMPLAINT SINCE THE 7.3.1 UPGRADE, BUT HAVE NO DIRECTION OR TIME FRAME AS TO ITS RESOLUTION FROM THE TIVO FOLKS. MY SUGGESTION IS CALL THE EXECUTIVE OFFICES AND REGISTER THE COMPLAINT WHERE THE FOLKS THAT LEAST WANT TO BE DEALING WITH IT ARE LOCATED - MAYBE THIS WILL START TO GET SOME RECOGNITION AND ACTION - AFTER ALL WE DO PAY FOR THIS SERVICE AT 100% OF THE TIVO CHARGES AND WE ARE GETTING SOMETHING LESS THAN 100% OF THE FUNCTIONALITY IN RETURN !!!! *** FYI - I ALSO ATTEMPTED TO POST THIS ON THE TIVO HELP FORUM 7.3.1 THREAD, AND IMMEDIATELY AFTER IT WAS POSTED IT WAS REMOVED WITH AN EMAIL SENT TO ME INDICATING THAT I NEEEDED TO "STAY ON TOPIC". MY FEELING IS THAT THE FOLKS AT TIVO WEREN'T THRILLED WITH THE FACT THAT I HAD PROVIDED NAMES AND NUMBERS AT THE EXECUTIVE LEVEL IN AN ATTEMPT TO FORCE TIVO LEADERSHIP TO TAKE OWNERSHIP OF THIS ISSUE. IN MY OPINION, GIVEN THE FIRST POSTING OF THESE PROBLEMS WITH 7.3.1 ON THE HELP FORUMS OCCURED ON 7/14/06, THERE HAS BEEN AMPLE TIME FOR TIVO TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE, ACKNOWLEDGE IT TO ITS SUBSCRIBER BASE, AND ARTICULATE A PLAN TO RESOLVE IT ALONG WITH A TIMELINE. NONE OF WHICH HAVE OCCURED. ANYONE AGREE ???? ---- LET'S ALL SMILE AND DIAL - MAYBE IF THEIR PHONE LINES AT HQ ARE JAMMED WITH COMPLAINING SUBSCRIBERS, THEY'LL COME OUT FROM UNDER THE CARPET THEY'RE HIDING UNDER.

PS: I HAVE ALSO REGISTERED A COMPLAINT WITH THE NJ ATTORNEY GENERALS OFFICE AND AM WORKING WITH A REPORTER FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL AS WELL AS ASSOCIATED PRESS.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

A Tivo employee on this forum has already stated that there are no issues affecting the vast majority of customers so its obvious they aren't rushing a fix. Like I have said before, TiVo has had a fundamental change in philosophy in the last year or so. They are no longer focused on providing the best user interface out there. They are focused solely on attracting customers at the expense of quality software.


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## Alcatraz (Nov 22, 2000)

cpetro said:


> ANYONE AGREE ????


No, not really. Especially when you don't know how to write a post that can be read easily. All caps is not cool, and if this is indeed your first post since joining 12/03, you need to take a moment and chill out. Nice intro . Are you a shill from Dish?

BTW, this thread was regarding 7.3. There's a separate thread regarding 7.3.1 that, while containing some upset posters, has managed to maintain a more civilized tone than you have here.

I've experienced the occasional slowdown, but I don't have a Humax. From what I've read, the DVD writer was slow to begin with and never responded well to IR until a hardware change was made. If that's one of the models you have, maybe you just need to take advantage of an exchange for it.

If you don't have the DVD writer, you should read that thread anyway. While others are reporting performance issues, I, for one, have not seen reports of pixellation. So open your eyes, quit "yelling", and stop assuming that your experience is representative of the rest of us. If it were happening to everyone, you can bet we'd all have beaten you to the front of the line to complain.


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## cpetro (Dec 16, 2003)

dear alcatraz, i apologize for the problem you had in reading the upper case font i used. perhaps all lower case is more to your liking!!! with regards to the problems being caused by 7.3.1, it is your posture of complacency that is what allows companies like tivo to take the who cares position it is obvious they have taken. from my looking back on this issue, i have found the earliest postings on the tivo help forums dated at 7/14/06, and i assume that you feel a lack of acknowledgement from tivo is satisfactory. keep sitting on your fingers and see how far customer support continues to slip into the proverbial black hole. a call to arms can do nothing but assist all those subscribers that have been infected with the 7.3.1 problems. obviously, you have no concern or compassion for your fellow subscribers. REGARDS, CPETRO


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## nvaughan3 (May 11, 2006)

7.3.1 is REALLY slow for me. Pressing the tivo button from the main menu gives me a 5-7 second delay before it draws the now playing list. 

Not only that, but the damm thing wouldn't connect to my wireless today. I have to S2 40 hr units, and the one in the bedroom worked fine, but the living room one went out suddenly during a pc transfer, and couldn't be seen afterwards by either my computer or the bedroom tivo. Had to restart to cure whatever the problem was.

Transfers are noticably slower too. I used to get 2x real time transfers, now I'm lucky to get 1x or .95x.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

In transferring some programs to TiVo last night via TiVo To Go Back, I noticed that when you go to the computer's folder to select programs to transfer, they are all listed as recorded on Thur. 12/31 5:00 p.m.

When a program is in the process of being transferred and you go to it in the NP List, there is a note there that says "This program will be saved until at least 2 after download is complete." Missing a word there. Once the DL is complete, then the message is correct as it uses the time the DL completed to figure out the time it will be saved until.


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