# Why is there no; standby, stop, add channel, separate scans, manual setup?



## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

1a. *No working standby* (one that will allow waking for timer recordings). There is no reason to have a HDD fully running 24/7, especially when one isn't using the device or has any scheduled recordings. Why have the outputs active all the time? All other DVR's that I have had experience with have at least have a standby. Some even will go to a low power mode that still allows timer recording and less than 30 second boot times,
1b *Allow timeshifting (the buffer) to be turned off.* If you don't use it, why have it continuously recording?
2. *Unable to provide program listings for in the clear QAM channels* even though most MSO's map the local stations to their virtual channel numbers,
3. *No true stop button*; every conceivable record/playback device has had a stop button from record players on. I realize there are ways to 'stop' a recording, but a true stop button isn't one of them,
4a. *Excessive number of steps for this grade school Guided Setup*. Between 24 and 30+ depending on your situation,
4b. *No ability to skip that annoying "Guided setup" *even for a minor change or problem. Give me the option of doing it manually. Everyone isn't brain dead,
5. *No separate scans* for OTA and CATV. I have never seen a tuner that has dual ability (both modes) not to have this. More unnecessary time consumption wasted for no reason. If only one or the other (OTA or CATV) needs a re-scan, why should I have to be forced to do a complete scan? 
6. *No ability to add a single channel* w/o scanning through the entire spectrum. That's utterly stupid & completely unnecessary. They apparently assume one scan is all you need, every single station/service is available 24/7 and there are no issues with reception problems, stations change physical channel numbers etc. There are users that are above intelligence that actually do know physical channel numbers and can enter just what they want w/o doing any scans. Give us that option,
7a. *Childish like text within the user interface*. You are treated as you were still in grade school, 
7b. *Excessive number of confirmation & info screens* as you make changes,
8. *Very limited time span for their "Grid"*, less than two hours is ridiculous for what you have to pay for this. You own all the patents you need, why aren't you using them?
9. *No ability to turn off the buffer.* If you don't care about timeshifting, why have it recording 24/7?
10. "Suggestions" that can't be turned off (*not* the recording of, but the suggestion themselves),
11. Boot times from power off are excessively long.

Applies to Series 3/HD models.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

Just about everything you posted is either inaccurate or just wrong.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

videobruce said:


> Everyone isn't brain dead


This list of problems that don't exist was made by someone who is.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

*Ok, then give me a detailed response for each and every item I listed and tell us exactly how & why it is incorrect.*


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

videobruce said:


> 1a. *No working standby* (one that will allow waking for timer recordings). There is no reason to have a HDD fully running 24/7, especially when one isn't using the device or has any scheduled recordings. Why have the outputs active all the time? All other DVR's that I have had experience with have at least have a standby. Some even will go to a low power mode that still allows timer recording and less than 30 second boot times,
> 1b *Allow timeshifting to be turned off.* If you don't use it, why have it continuously recording?


The debate on Hard Drive wear and tear and exactly which is worse, constant power up/down versus continuous running has been discussed ad nasuem on the forum. In general, continuously running hard drives las tlonger than constant power cycling.



videobruce said:


> 2. *No function buttons on the front panel.* Though not the only device that doesn't have these,


What buttons would you like? I would expect the vast majority of consumers have become so used to using a remote to interact with a DVR that front-panel buttons are unnecessary. Even most modern DVD/Blu-Ray players do not have buttons on the front anymore.



videobruce said:


> 3. *No stop button*; every conceivable record/playback device has had a stop button from record players on. I realize there are ways to 'stop' a recording, but a stop button isn't one of them. Are these people from another planet?


IMHO, this is antiquated thinking. Pause, Back, and then "clear" should do what you ultimately desire. Could there be a Stop/Delete button? Sure, but just don't think a large number of consumers desire such a button.



videobruce said:


> 4. *No ability to skip that annoying "Guided setup" *even for a minor change or problem. Give me the option of doing it manually. Everyone isn't brain dead,
> 5. *No separate scans* for OTA and CATV. I have never seen a tuner that has dual ability (both modes) not to have this. More unnecessary time consumption wasted for no reason. If only one or the other (OTA or CATV) needs a re-scan, why should I have to be forced to do a complete scan?
> 6. *No ability to add a single channel* w/o scanning through the entire spectrum. That's utterly stupid & completely unnecessary. They apparently assume one scan is all you need, every single station/service is available 24/7 and there are no issues with reception problems, stations change physical channel numbers etc. There are users that are above intelligence that actually do know physical channel numbers and can enter just what they want w/o doing any scans. Give us that option,


Don't do OTA, so I can't personally comment.



videobruce said:


> 7. *Very limited time span for their "Grid"*, less than two hours is ridiculous. You own all the patents you need, why aren't you using them?


Are you talking about the Grid guide? This is usually available for the next 10 days. I'm confused.



videobruce said:


> 8. Boot times from power off are excessively long. At least they are for the series three,


I'm sure you could get a lot of people to agree with the long boot time complaint. However, this a a consumer appliance, meant to be on 24/7 so boot time should be a rarely required exercise. Use a UPS on the Tivo to maintain uptime more reliably and compensate for power fluctuations from your electric supplier.



videobruce said:


> 9. No recording history (record log), unless I missed something,


Look again, it's there. Don't remember the exact menu selections needed to get there right now, but it's there.



videobruce said:


> 10. Annoying child like beeps when in the menu that can't be turned off easily,


Sorry? Those have become iconic of a Tivo and are unlikely to ever be changed.



videobruce said:


> 11. "Suggestions" that can't be turned off (that I know of).


Look again, it's there. Don't remember the exact menu selections needed to get there right now, but it's there.

I remember your numerous threads a month or so ago asking a ton of questions about the S3/HD versus Premiere. Based on that, it would seem you're tough to please in general. Also, you're likely to get little sympathy or useful responses based on the tone of this post.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

*No working standby* (one that will allow waking for timer recordings). There is no reason to have a HDD fully running 24/7, especially when one isn't using the device or has any scheduled recordings. Why have the outputs active all the time? All other DVR's that I have had experience with have at least have a standby. Some even will go to a low power mode that still allows timer recording and less than 30 second boot times,

You can put your DVR in Standby mode by selecting Standby from Messages & Settings. To return to normal mode from Standby, press the TiVo button or LIVE TV button on the remote, or the TiVo, LIVE TV, or FORMAT button on the front of the DVR. When the DVR is in Standby:
 Your TV shows a black screen and the lights on the front of the DVR go out.
 Programs that are being recorded or are scheduled to record will still be recorded. If a program is being recorded, the red light will turn on.

1b *Allow timeshifting to be turned off.* If you don't use it, why have it continuously recording?

2. *No function buttons on the front panel.* Though not the only device that doesn't have these,

The Series 3 has function buttons on the front panel. The HD and HD XL don't hav efull function buttone

3. *No stop button*; every conceivable record/playback device has had a stop button from record players on. I realize there are ways to 'stop' a recording, but a stop button isn't one of them. Are these people from another planet?

4. *No ability to skip that annoying "Guided setup" *even for a minor change or problem. Give me the option of doing it manually. Everyone isn't brain dead,

Most minor changes don't require guided setup

5. *No separate scans* for OTA and CATV. I have never seen a tuner that has dual ability (both modes) not to have this. More unnecessary time consumption wasted for no reason. If only one or the other (OTA or CATV) needs a re-scan, why should I have to be forced to do a complete scan?

I don't get cable tv so I can't comment on this.

6. *No ability to add a single channel* w/o scanning through the entire spectrum. That's utterly stupid & completely unnecessary. They apparently assume one scan is all you need, every single station/service is available 24/7 and there are no issues with reception problems, stations change physical channel numbers etc. There are users that are above intelligence that actually do know physical channel numbers and can enter just what they want w/o doing any scans. Give us that option,

If you set up a manual recording for those channels, TiVo will know they exist. At that point you can go to your channels I receive and select them. (You can put the channel number in manually for manual recordings, you aren't confined to selecting from the list.)

7. *Very limited time span for their "Grid"*, less than two hours is ridiculous. You own all the patents you need, why aren't you using them?

Guide Options lets you display channels and programs in the guide according to your preferences. Press ENTER while the guide is displayed to set guide options. TiVo Live Guide will give a longer time frame of shows per channel

8. Boot times from power off are excessively long. At least they are for the series three,

???

9. No recording history (record log), unless I missed something,

From TiVo Central go to Find Programs > To Do List > View Recording History

10. Annoying child like beeps when in the menu that can't be turned off easily,

From the TiVo Central® screen, select Messages & Settings, then Settings, then Audio, Sound Effects Volume. Change the volume or turn off the DVRs sound effects (the tones played when you press buttons on the remote control). The default is Medium

11. "Suggestions" that can't be turned off (that I know of).

From the TiVo Central® screen, select Messages & Settings, then Settings, then Recording, TiVo Suggestions
Use this screen to turn automatic recording of TiVo Suggestions on or off.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

tatergator1 said:


> Sorry? Those have become iconic of a Tivo and are unlikely to ever be changed.


They are annoying as heck and the first thing I did on each of my Tivos (an S2ST, an S2DT and a TivoHD) after setup was turning off all the sound effects. So, yes, they are easy to turn off. I don't remember how, but I turned them off.


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## SleepyBob (Sep 28, 2000)

I agree that the lack of panel buttons is annoying. That is a nice feature of the old DirecTV TiVos, and one of my pet peeves about DVD players. If you have kids, you may not be able to find the remote instantly every time you need it.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

> The debate on Hard Drive wear and tear and exactly which is worse, constant power up/down versus continuous running has been discussed ad nasuem on the forum. In general, continuously running hard drives las tlonger than constant power cycling.


I'm not talking about stopping a HDD for 10 or 15 minutes, but for *hours* on end at a time. I have heard the argument, but let the user decide.


> What buttons would you like? I would expect the vast majority of consumers have become so used to using a remote to interact with a DVR that front-panel buttons are unnecessary. Even most modern DVD/Blu-Ray players do not have buttons on the front anymore.


Considering this is suppose to be the 'model' for other DVR's at least menu access w/ navigation buttons in case the remote gets lost or goes south (for starters).


> IMHO, this is antiquated thinking. Pause, Back, and then "clear" should do what you ultimately desire. Could there be a Stop/Delete button? Sure, but just don't think a large number of consumers desire such a button.


It worked for the past 50 or so years. If it isn't broke (which it wasn't) why fix it? You could make the same argument for 'play' also.


> Are you talking about the Grid guide?


The window of listings presently available.


> Look again, it's there. Don't remember the exact menu selections needed to get there right now, but it's there.


More functions buried. I will wade through the menu further.


> it would seem you're tough to please in general


Mediocrity should not be a option here.


> you're likely to get little sympathy or useful responses based on the tone of this post.


My "tone" reflects the corporate greedy mentality of the company that has put a stranglehold on the entire DVR market through their endless lawsuits.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

> You can put your DVR in Standby mode by selecting Standby from Messages & Settings.


I'm aware of that, but recordings scheduled did not record.


> Most minor changes don't require guided setup


I was referring to the initial setup.


> If you set up a manual recording for those channels, TiVo will know they exist. At that point you can go to your channels I receive and select them. (You can put the channel number in manually for manual recordings, you aren't confined to selecting from the list.)


You misunderstood. I'm talking about placing channels in the channel map so they are available to at least watch.


> Guide Options lets you display channels and programs in the guide according to your preferences.


I have it setup for 'Grid'. That 'window' is very limited in it's span.


> From the TiVo Central® screen, select Messages & Settings, then Settings, then Recording, TiVo Suggestions
> Use this screen to turn automatic recording of TiVo Suggestions on or off.


Isn't that for each recording?


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

OP- You have lots to learn about the details of working a tivo day to day. 

Two main items to consider. First, some of your comments are based upon an initial set up, and should not need to happen again, ever, unless you change something major. Second, in operating the unit you have a learning curve and mindset change needed to use a tivo efficiently. Some never get there and continue to work it like a smart VHS player, and others are able to embrace it and run like mad with the power available.

For example, it is easy to see in the guide that nearly two weeks of data is available. You simply scroll right to see it, or use certain keys to move ahead in blocks of time. HOWEVER, if your unit is new, it will only download a few days of data to help you get up and running quickly. 

Suggestions is one of the most powerful tools a tivo has. Some don't like it, but I would recommend leaving it on for a while to see what you think about it. The shows it records does not impact season passes or wish lists.

So, I would play with it for a few more days, perhaps a week, then revisit this thread to see what is actually important and what is just the learning curve. I would guess, based upon your clear curiosity prior to this thread, that you will have figured this stuff out, but will have more poignant questions.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

You can put your DVR in Standby mode by selecting Standby from Messages & Settings. 

I'm aware of that, but recordings scheduled did not record. 

I've never had that happen while in standby and it should not have happened to you.


Quote:
If you set up a manual recording for those channels, TiVo will know they exist. At that point you can go to your channels I receive and select them. (You can put the channel number in manually for manual recordings, you aren't confined to selecting from the list.) 

You misunderstood. I'm talking about placing channels in the channel map so they are available to at least watch. 




You misunderstood as well. What I was explaining is that once you have made a manual recording of a channel that is not in the guide, it will be available to add to yyour channel lineup withouit going through the channel scan or guided setup.

Quote:
Guide Options lets you display channels and programs in the guide according to your preferences. 

I have it setup for 'Grid'. That 'window' is very limited in it's span. 

As others have pointed out, it's limited in its' display rather than in its' span. If you want to see more switch from the grid.


Quote:
From the TiVo Central® screen, select Messages & Settings, then Settings, then Recording, TiVo Suggestions
Use this screen to turn automatic recording of TiVo Suggestions on or off. 

Isn't that for each recording? 

The instructions above turn all suggestions off.


I hope you'll treat my this and my earlier post as an attempt to help you find ways to accomplish the tasks that eluded you. Many of these are not immediately obvious and it never hurts to ask for help.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

tatergator1 said:


> The debate on Hard Drive wear and tear and exactly which is worse, constant power up/down versus continuous running has been discussed ad nasuem on the forum. In general, continuously running hard drives las tlonger than constant power cycling.


It's far more than just that. The TiVo is constantly handlingmany operations including data collection, calling the mid servers every minute or so, updating the account, etc. At a minimum, many of these things are logged to the hard drive.



tatergator1 said:


> What buttons would you like?


Actually, I'll give him this one, partially. First of all, some models of TiVo do have front panel buttons. I do wish the TiVo had recessed front panel power and reset buttons. Getting to the rear power connection can be a major pain in some setups (like two of mine), especially for those of us who are physically disabled.



tatergator1 said:


> I would expect the vast majority of consumers have become so used to using a remote to interact with a DVR that front-panel buttons are unnecessary. Even most modern DVD/Blu-Ray players do not have buttons on the front anymore.


That's not quite the point. I agree with the OP they should have, at least for power and reset. I wouldn't grouse about having four arrow keys and a select button, either. It wouldn't add more than $1.50 to the cost of the unit.



tatergator1 said:


> IMHO, this is antiquated thinking. Pause, Back, and then "clear" should do what you ultimately desire. Could there be a Stop/Delete button? Sure, but just don't think a large number of consumers desire such a button.


Agreed. What would such a button reasonably do? This isn't a tape recorder with a limited, serially accessed medium on board. There's really not anything for a Stop button to do.



tatergator1 said:


> I'm sure you could get a lot of people to agree with the long boot time complaint. However, this a a consumer appliance, meant to be on 24/7 so boot time should be a rarely required exercise.


More to the point, how does the OP suggest the boot time be minimized? A faster CPU would help just a bit, while simultanously increasing the cost of the unit drastically. Otherwise, the only way to speed up the boot process significantly would be to heavily augment the real-time components in the system, and that would be *VERY* expensive.

They might be able to shave a few seconds by shortening the intro video.



tatergator1 said:


> I remember your numerous threads a month or so ago asking a ton of questions about the S3/HD versus Premiere.


Well, that's OK. That's a major purpose of these fora.



tatergator1 said:


> Based on that, it would seem you're tough to please in general.


That's OK, too. It certainly his right to be hard to please.



tatergator1 said:


> Also, you're likely to get little sympathy or useful responses based on the tone of this post.


Hmm. His tone didn't seem all that bad, to me. His information store was pretty faulty, which isn't good, but it didn't seem quite the annoying, whiny entitlement we often get, to me.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

videobruce said:


> 1a. *No working standby* (one that will allow waking for timer recordings). There is no reason to have a HDD fully running 24/7, especially when one isn't using the device or has any scheduled recordings.


Yes, there is.



tatergator1 said:


> 1b *Allow timeshifting to be turned off.* If you don't use it, why have it continuously recording?


I presume you mean the live buffers? If so, I happen to agree. I would prefer they could be disabled. It would allow more recording room. OTOH, an hour or so of recording isn't much, for anyone with an upgraded drive.



tatergator1 said:


> 7. *Very limited time span for their "Grid"*, less than two hours is ridiculous. You own all the patents you need, why aren't you using them?


Simple solution: Don't use the guide. It's an unnecesary waste of time.



tatergator1 said:


> 9. No recording history (record log), unless I missed something,


You missed something. Check the "To Do List". It does not list successful recordings, but it does list any failed recordings and it does list when a recording is deleted by a user.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

videobruce said:


> It worked for the past 50 or so years.


The buggy whip worked for hundreds of years. Are you complaining to the automotive companies they don't include buggy whips? The stop button was only necessary on tape recorders because they employed a serially accessed medium. The tape had to started and stopped. One does not start and stop random access media.



videobruce said:


> My "tone" reflects the corporate greedy mentality of the company that has put a stranglehold on the entire DVR market through their endless lawsuits.


Well, I defended your tone previously, but now you are starting to get whiny. There is nothing of greed evident here, just good engineering, for the most part, and a few possibly questionable engineering decisions.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

jrtroo said:


> Suggestions is one of the most powerful tools a tivo has. Some don't like it, but I would recommend leaving it on for a while to see what you think about it. The shows it records does not impact season passes or wish lists.


I've said this so many times I can't begin to count them all, but the main problem is so many people are thinking of the TiVo in an ineffectual way. They think of it as just a more powerful, more convenient VCR. To be sure, it does everything a VCR can, but then an Abrams tank can be used to plow a field just like a tractor can.

Fundamentally, the TiVo is a filter that can automatically eliminate all the garbage (well, almost all) with which one woud otherwise have to deal when selecting material while watching TV. The most obvious "garbage" is the programming one does not wish to record, of course. With the VCR, this meant "merely" not recording the programs one did not wish to see. The problem with that notion, however, is there is a huge, huge volume of content out there, and one must at some level make one's self acquainted with the bulk of that garbage in order to know what one doesn't want. The TiVo takes the massive amount of time and trouble away from the user and saddled itself with it, so the user needn't worry about it.

Of course it deals automatically with shifting TV schedules (given at least a couple of day's notice) and sorting between reruns and new broadcasts, if the user likes, but it can do so much more. It also can completely eliminate the user's need to worry about such garbage as when and on what channel a program may appear. The most powerful use of the TiVo can be made by thinking if it as a time and channnel independent *SOURCE* of TV programming, not a recipient of programming at various times and from various channels. Let the TiVo worry about what, when, and where, and just worry about what you want to watch at this moment. The TiVo can eliminate not only the "garbage" of poor quality programming, it also eliminates the "garbage" of time and channels in the schedule. I could not tell you on what date, at what time, or on what channel even a single program (other than news and weather) comes on. I let the Tivo worry about such utterly unnecessary (to the user) information. On my TiVo, there is only one network: NPL.

Suggestions are a very powerful component of that paradigm. Through one's voting habits using the <Thumbs Up> and very importantly <Thumbs Down> buttons, the TiVo learns the user's tastes astoundingly well and in an astonishingly short period of time, and uses that information to choose programs to record (or at least suggest).

If one relied only on suggestions, would the TiVo record every single program the user likes? Probably not, although it would do a surprisingly fair job of it. That said, the TiVo has much more flexible ideas in mind than just what Suggestions selections are recorded. In additon to choosing whether to record or not, Suggestions are given a low priority. They will never overwrite a scheduled program, and they will be unceremoniously deleted if space is needed for a schedule program. It is a non-specific recording method. Specific recordings are taken to be more important and are handled by Season Passes, Wish Lists, or specific recording requests.

More important than what the Suggestions record, however, is what they do not record. They don't record crap, "crap" being defined by the owner's tastes, not someone else's idea of crap. Do they record the "best" stuff? Well, yes, sometimes. Season Passes, Wishlists, and user-specified recordings will inevitably sometimes miss a really great recording here and there, and when that happens, there is a good chance the TiVo will catch it with a Suggestions selection. Most users, however, don't select a program to watch merely based on how good it is. Taken to the extreme, this would mean the user only ever watched a single show, over and over again, and nothing else. They would only watch the single best video ever made. That's a ridiculous extreme, of course, but I am merely illustrating a point. One normally chooses what one wishes to watch not only by how good the program may be, but also by in what mood the person happen to be at the moment. So, for example, my TiVo oftem records old series like M*A*S*H or Wings, silly modern programs like America's Funniest Home Videos, documentaries on Animal Planet or National Geographic, an interview on USA network, or whatever. None of these are something I wouild watch on a daily, or even a weekly basis, but I nonetheless do enjoy watching one or the other of these from time to time. When I pull up the NPL, if I don't have a specific item in mind, or if none of the "regular" stuff tickles my fancy at the moment, there are virtually always a few items in suggestions that are worth a look.

Suggestions don't make up the bulk of my watching, and I would not expect they would anybody's, but I do usually watch at least three or four Suggestions a week. If nothing else, they provide a good break from the routine.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

lrhorer said:


> I do wish the TiVo had recessed front panel power and reset buttons. Getting to the rear power connection can be a major pain in some setups


On the Premiere, you can hold down the format button on the front and it will reset/power cycle the TiVo. I don't know if this works on a Series 3, as I no longer own one.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

> OP- You have lots to learn about the details of working a tivo day to day.


This isn't my 1st DVR. I have had three different models, including the Sony (that I has three) which exceeds this in almost all respects especially the Guide. TiVo's Guide is pale in comparison.


> First, some of your comments are based upon an initial set up, and should not need to happen again,


I realize that, I'm looking for options to setup this manually.


> Second, in operating the unit you have a learning curve and mindset change needed to use a tivo efficiently.


See above. Everything has a learning curve.


> it is easy to see in the guide that nearly two weeks of data is available.


Which is 2x what the Sony had. That isn't the issue, it's the numbers of hours one sees in that window at one time that is.


> So, I would play with it for a few more days, perhaps a week,


I have been playing with it for well over a week. Again, this isn't my 1st DVR. Features should not be hidden or buried if you prefer. They also shouldn't be doubled up with other functions; Changing the info screen with the right navigation button for example.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

> recordings scheduled did not record.
> I've never had that happen while in standby and it should not have happened to you.


I only did this once, I will try again to see what happens.


> What I was explaining is that once you have made a manual recording of a channel that is not in the guide, it will be available to add to yyour channel lineup withouit going through the channel scan or guided setup


Apparently I did. That has the be the dumbest way to add a channel that I have ever heard of. Clearly, whomever thought out the scan process doesn't seem to understand all OTA stations are not from one direction and stations can change physical channel numbers, especially CATV systems where it is musical channels, spin the bottle all the time.


> As others have pointed out, it's limited in its' display rather than in its' span. If you want to see more switch from the grid.


From the comments, that surely wasn't apparent. The 'Grid' mode (that they have the so called patents to) id by far the easier way to view listings. The 90 min time span is the problem.


> The instructions above turn all suggestions off.


Ok, one problem solved. 
Thanks for the input as opposed to the two grossly incorrect, unwanted comments from the peanut gallery.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

> There's really not anything for a Stop button to do.


That's all it's suppose to do. That is all it needs to do. Past practice and historically, there is no reason *no* to have one.


> More to the point, how does the OP suggest the boot time be minimized?


Or just less to load. One would think it's loading Windows 7. I can almost restore a image of a HDD on a PC in the same amount of time. Do these ads have anything to do with this?


> That's OK, too. It certainly his right to be hard to please.


Is this not the supposed "premier" DVR? Should this not be far above all others? *Being satisfied with mediocrity only allows CE companies to produce even more substandard devices.*


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

> Yes, there is.


Regarding a "working standby" (Maybe not the best term); Then why isn't it on the remote and possibly on the front panel instead of being buried in the menu? If you don't want to use it, you don't have to.


> I presume you mean the live buffers?


Yes. I don't use timeshifting, why should it be recording 24/7? Just give the ability to turn it off, that's all. Is that so tough?


> Simple solution: Don't use the guide. It's an unnecesary waste of time.


Then don't charge $500 for it and restrict the DVR's use without. We both know it's not "unnecessary" nor "a waste of time".


> You missed something. Check the "To Do List". It does not list successful recordings, but it does list any failed recordings and it does list when a recording is deleted by a user.


That was the feature I was looking for. But, if this is a "*history*" list as in the 'past', why is this under a "To do" entry as in the *future*?



> The buggy whip worked for hundreds of years.


But, there is no horse anymore. Bad example.


> Well, I defended your tone previously, but now you are starting to get whiny. There is nothing of greed evident here


Except the stranglehold this company has placed on the DVR industry. It's one thing to go after these MSO's, but to place the same stranglehold on small CE companies that couldn't complete with this outfit is greedy. What are they up to in lawsuits $1 billion and counting? Why bother even selling these, just keep on suing.

.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

> They think of it as just a more powerful, more convenient VCR


I don't believe I ever thought of a DVR as a more convenient VCR in the past 5 or 6 years of owning them. As opposed to the 28 years I had owned VCR's.

Regarding "suggestions", Netflix gives you suggestions. I have never took them on any of them.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

videobruce said:


> 3. *No stop button*; every conceivable record/playback device has had a stop button from record players on. I realize there are ways to 'stop' a recording, but a stop button isn't one of them.


If you are watching a show, pressing the red record button will give you the option to record. If the show you are watching is already recording, pressing the red record button will give you the option to stop recording.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

> Just about everything you posted is either inaccurate or just wrong.


Now lets see now;
1a. The standby is buried in the menu, not a separate button on the remote or front panel,
1b. Accurate.
2. Accurate.
3. Accurate.
4. Accurate.
5. Accurate.
6. Mostly accurate. If I added "easy and logical way" it *would* be accurate. Doing that round about route to add a single channel is ridiculous.
7. Accurate. I'd gladly trade the two weeks for a hour hour window in Grid mode.
8. Accurate.
9. You got me on this one, but I did state "unless I missed something".
10. Accurate.
11. Again, on this one also, but I did add the comment "that I know of".

That amounts to two not accurate, but I did question both. 
One partly accurate, 
One other mostly accurate.

So much for that post and the one after.


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## moedaman (Aug 21, 2012)

videobruce, why in the world did you buy a Tivo? You've ranted against them over at AVSForums and you've ranted against them here. You could always set up a WMC dvr system, but you hate MS just as much. But your much beloved Sony will soon be a brick because both Sony and Rovi screwed you. The biggest problem I see is that you don't like Tivo in the first place, thus you're not willing to work with the product. You should just chuck the idea of using a dvr and find streams of what you watch. Yep, bit torrent, that's the way to screw over those "corporate a-holes".


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

> If you are watching a show, pressing the red record button will give you the option to record. If the show you are watching is already recording, pressing the red record button will give you the option to stop recording.


Thats' all fine and dandy, but that is the third 'hidden' (maybe not the best term) way to 'stop' playback. 
1. LiveTV,
2. Left navigation button,
3. Record button.
They all 'stop' playback, but in a round about, non straight forward way.
Bottom line, there actually is a need to stop playback in spite what was previously stated. What is so tough in adding a 'stop' button and why are you defending the absence of one??


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

*moedaman;* Tell me, how much stock of theirs do you own? 
But, to answer your question; I got it for $115 w/ lifetime and to see what it was really like.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

I'll repeat my response above. You need to use the TIVO more to get the feel for some of these nuanced functions. Sometimes a right or left arrow will get you where you need to go.

I know you used a DVR before, but Tivo is different. Primarily, you just need to get used to how it works, and realize that you are continuing to fit the tivo into a cableco DVR/VCR mindset.

I'll skip the back and forth action, it is tedious, especially when you ignore the poster's name in the response. 

I'm not sure why you are fighting these people, they are really trying to free you from the DVR matrix.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

As Steve Jobs would say, you're holding it wrong.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

videobruce said:


> 3. *No stop button*; every conceivable record/playback device has had a stop button from record players on. I realize there are ways to 'stop' a recording, but a stop button isn't one of them. Are these people from another planet?





videobruce said:


> Thats' all fine and dandy, but that is the third 'hidden' (maybe not the best term) way to 'stop' playback.
> 1. LiveTV,
> 2. Left navigation button,
> 3. Record button.
> ...


You could just relabel the the LiveTV button. It does exactly what you want it do, however it is really doing more than just stop.

Perhaps it is just a different way of thinking. The items you mention above with stop buttons are older devices where stop makes more sense.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

How is your TiVo hooked up? OTA? Cable?


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

> Perhaps it is just a different way of thinking. The items you mention above with stop buttons are older devices where stop makes more sense.


The Channel Master CM7400, the Cisco MSO provided DVR & the ePVision VRX DVR all have a stop button. And they are all current.


> How is your TiVo hooked up? OTA? Cable?


Both.
Glad you brought that up since I just found another major flaw;
Since you can't 'map' or edit channels in the Guide or channel list, you will *not* get listings for unencrypted local stations using the number that the DVR finds which will either be the actual physical channel number or the OTA virtual number depending on your system. Only their analog counterpart & their CATV virtual number will show listings, which does you no good since you can't point that to what the tuner found.
In fact these aren't even provided in the channel list. You have to do a 2nd scan to get them in the channel table. Then, go through and uncheck all the residue that was checked that you don't want or can't get.
Thats' worse than all of the above.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

A lot of DVR remotes also have separate channel up/down and page up/down buttons. Just because someone else added useless buttons to their remotes, that doesn't mean TiVo needs to.

Do you want a 33/45 button and a cue button on your TiVo remote too?


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

Wouldn't matter since I don't use the provided remote anyway. I program what I need in a learning remote.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=488591&highlight=stop+button

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=488614&highlight=stop+button

Holy crap. We have enough buttons already. It is just a matter of training yourself to know how the tivo works. There are a bunch of ways to stop playback. I normally just use left or pause.

The horse is dead. It was dead before this thread was even started. Search found these two recent threads in no time.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

videobruce said:


> Wouldn't matter since I don't use the provided remote anyway. I program what I need in a learning remote.


Why not program standby into your learning remote?

TiVo is not perfect; I have a lot of complaints myself. Neither is the car I drive, I could list the items that confound me there - but you don't seem to even like the nature of a DVR and want it customized to you. That or you are just annoyed that TiVo enjoys a legal right to a number of patents and that is driving this rant.

I have cable only, but I can individually map channels very easily and I have used it to eliminate all of the non-HD duplicates - maybe something different with OTA? Not sure.

TiVo designed their DVR with a series of use cases in mind. A 30 minute buffer, constantly on television tuner. I quite often will turn on the TV, find that something interesting is on and rewind to get the entire segment. Lord, I wish my car radio had one!

They have designed the Premier to be power sipping (25 watts) and with a very low hard drive failure rate. In the Decade I have had TiVo's, not a single drive has ever failed.

And boy if you think it takes a long time to boot up now you should have seen it a year ago! TiVo reduced the boot time from > 6 min to ~ 3 min. But since it only reboots a couple of times a year and generally overnight after an update - it really has very little impact on usability.

I have no idea what you are talking about on the guide - none. The TiVo guide shows an entire day for that channel in view and has won awards and accolades. What could you possibly be looking at?










Anyway - I can tell from your rant that you have very little interest getting to know your TiVo and very little interest in actually generating a conversation. As you have said several times, since TiVo has protected its patent portfolio you personally feel slighted.

That my friend is something we are not going to be able to help you with on this forum.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

It sounds like you are using cable TV without a CableCard. Are you? Because all this channel mapping nonsense usually comes from people trying to use a TiVo without a CableCard.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

> Holy crap. We have enough buttons already.


And one more button that every other recording/playback has had and still does is that much of a problem?? Yea. holy crap, you would think I was talking about 10 more buttons.


> It sounds like you are using cable TV without a CableCard. Are you? Because all this channel mapping nonsense usually comes from people trying to use a TiVo without a CableCard.


Yes, so what's so unusual about that? I didn't see the well posted / advertised statement that these can't be used w/o a CC if you want listings on your 'in the clear' OTA stations. 
Let's see now, pay $500 for a Guide that doesn't allow using the listings for you OTA stations. Yep real nice. :down:
All they have to do is allow channel re-numbering (and also re-ordering in the Guide) so the fictitious virtual channel number links to either the physical number or the OTA virtual number. This is worse that all of what was in my OP (which I could of added to).

.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

> I have cable only, but I can individually map channels very easily


And you do this exactly how?


> I have no idea what you are talking about on the guide


I use Grid mode. You see multiple stations not just in a single time slot (except for the station you are on) as you shown.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

No cablecard answers a lot of questions. It seems that you are trying to do something that simply will not work. As the meme goes "ain't nobody got time for that" - if you are trying to fake out the tivo to use OTA program guide applied to a cable tv signal. 

If you thought there were umpteen threads on the stop button, the fact that you need a cablecard to get guide data for cable channels has even more.

Do you even have an antenna attached? Those should work just fine.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

> It seems that you are trying to do something that simply will not work.


Due to lack of insite.


> the fact that you need a cablecard to get guide data for cable channels has even more.


Proves my comment. And this is suppose to be "the" DVR. Yea, right. 
It's no problem with analog listings. Assuming everyone wants the additional expense of a higher level of service just adds to the list of their failures.
Yes I have an antenna attached, kinda hard to do a scan w/o. BUT, all channels aren't available unless I reorientate the antenna. The simulcasted channels on cable are the convenience.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

The TiVo is not designed to do what you are trying to do. That is not a failure of the device. It is the nature of the device. Either get a CableCard for Cable, use it like a Series 2 without the CableCard and get analog channels only, or disconnect Cable and use it OTA. (Or get bad guide data that won't ever work on digital cable channels because the TiVo won't ever do that without the CableCard. The damn box says you will need a CableCard to receive digital cable.)

It's like you're inserting a DVD into a CD player and complaining that the manufacturer could have solved the problem if they had only put a DVD drive in the player.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

videobruce said:


> And you do this exactly how?I use Grid mode. You see multiple stations not just in a single time slot (except for the station you are on) as you shown.


So you have two distinct channel guides available and neither meet you needs? And you don't see yourself as the problem?


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

videobruce said:


> And you do this exactly how?I use Grid mode. You see multiple stations not just in a single time slot (except for the station you are on) as you shown.


I'll give you a hint. Look at the very bottom of your grid guide. 
"Press ENTER for Guide Options"

Do that, then scroll up to 'Style'. You have two choices: Grid Guide and the TiVo Live Guide.



Arcady said:


> It's like you're inserting a DVD into a CD player and complaining that the manufacturer could have solved the problem if they had only put a DVD drive in the player.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

> The damn box says you will need a CableCard to receive digital cable


*WRONG. *You don't need a CC for in the clear OTA stations on cable.


> So you have two distinct channel guides available and neither meet you needs? And you don't see yourself as the problem?


It's responses as that where the problem is since you didn't read what I wrote. The statement was made about "mapping channels". What does this have to do with "mapping channels"??:


> I have cable only, but I can individually map channels very easily


I'm waiting to find out how one "maps channels very easily".


> I have cable only, but I can individually map channels very easily


What does changing the view of the Guide have to do with any of this?


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

This is lunacy. I'm out.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

Arcady said:


> The damn box says you will need a CableCard to receive digital cable.





videobruce said:


> *WRONG. *You don't need a CC for in the clear OTA stations on cable.


Let me write if for you again, before i hit the ignore button:

The damn box says you will need a CableCard to receive 
*digital cable*.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

*In the clear OTA stations are digital cable. *

There are between 8 & 10 stations or services that are 'in the clear' in my system. What part of that isn't clear or aren't you aware of this?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll give you half a point on Standby and the hypothetical "stop" button. It seems like most TiVo users don't bother with Standby, but I do. My TiVos spend the vast majority of their time in Standby, and I guarantee you, it has no adverse effect on recording. There's a discrete remote code for it that you can program into a universal remote, and I have the button right on my network remote (see sig). BUT TiVo broke this function in the HDUI (it still works in the SDUI), so I still have to go through the menus. About four button presses, not a big deal, but the regression bothers me.

Also, where traditionally the left arrow out of a program would stop it, in the HDUI this is not the case, if you have the preview window active. Overall, I do think the HDUI is an improvement, but with quirks like these it lacks the polish of the SDUI. (Another example of this I just noticed the other day: When entering an IP address in the "Manually add a server" window, in the SDUI, the TiVo recognizes when there won't be any more digits in a box, and advances automatically -- to the point of advancing after (for example) "73", but not "18". Such a lovely touch, and it doesn't happen in the HDUI.)

BTW, there is actually a discrete remote code for "Stop" as well, although I haven't really played with it. Apparently there's some subtle difference between it and the left-arrow out, since I had people request me to add it to my network remote -- which I did, but only as a keyboard shortcut. I don't use it myself. As I understand it, it originated as an actual remote button for the TiVos that had DVD players or burners built-in.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

RTFM.

You need a CableCard to receive guide data for digital cable. It doesn't matter if the channels are in the clear or not.

I've been using TiVo since 2001. I've been using CableCard in TiVo since 2006. I've been posting on this forum since 2004. I don't claim to know everything about TiVo, but I know enough. There have been dozens of threads from people like you too cheap to use the box as intended. 

I'm out too.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Arcady said:


> You need a CableCard to receive guide data for digital cable.


To be more exact, you need it to map the channels to the numbers used in the guide data (i.e. the numbers used by the cable system, the numbers you'd see on a cable-company-supplied STB). Without that, the channels are mapped to whatever's in the PSIP data, which could be the channel's broadcast number, or a random number, or the actual frequency, or even -- but this is crazy talk -- the number that the channel is supposed to be mapped to. Yes, the cable companies _could_ do the proper mapping just through PSIP, which would mean that clear QAM channels would then work correctly on a TiVo, AFAIK. But (again, AFAIK) none of them do this.

To reiterate, the guide data that the TiVo uses comes from TiVo Inc., in all cases. The cards are _only_ needed for mapping. (Well, and decryption, but I mean "only" for mapping in the case of clear QAM. Decryption is mostly what CableCards are for. The mapping is kind of trivial -- yet, it's essential, if the cable companies aren't going to use PSIP. And they aren't.)


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

> There's a discrete remote code for it that you can program into a universal remote......BTW, there is actually a discrete remote code for "Stop" as well,


Since this is the 'HD' model, what are these codes or where are they available?


> You need a CableCard to receive guide data for digital cable.


Wrong. If you choose CC during setup, after the list populates those OTA channels will have data present, but since there is no provision to edit the channel number, I can't use that to have the DVR record the program.

Example; the NBC affiliate here is virtual channel 2. The in the clear digital channel shows on non MSO boxes (TV's & DVR's) as 2.1 the way it shows OTA. This MSO places this on the fictitious channel 702. If I could edit that number from 702 to 2.1, thus pointing that listing to the virtual channel number the MSO has given (properly) to that station, there wouldn't be a problem. Either in the Guide or the channel list.


> There have been dozens of threads from people like you too cheap to use the box as intended.


1. Maybe I don't want all those additional channels, 
2. Maybe I don't want to deal with CC's, Tuning adapters and their damn SDV which is nothing but troubleshooting nightmare. I have read enough posts/threads on the subject.
3. The "as intended" is what you are use to and most other DVR's seem to deal with little issue.


> I don't claim to know everything about TiVo, but I know enough.


Apparently little about OTA and unencrypted locals that don't need a CC to view & record.


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

videobruce said:


> 1. Maybe I don't want all those additional channels,
> 2. Maybe I don't want to deal with CC's, Tuning adapters and their damn SDV which is nothing but troubleshooting nightmare. I have read enough posts/threads on the subject.


You don''t want to be able to view channels you are presumably paying for?
Also, for the situation you're trying to make work, argument 2 doesn't hold much water. Since you're only concerned with trying to map clear QAM channels, there is no need for a TA for SDV. It would only require a CC. While TWC is notorious for terrible technical assistance, the National CableCard hotline for TWC is staffed by knowledgeable people that would make paring the CC take 5 minutes.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

videobruce said:


> If you choose CC during setup, after the list populates those OTA channels will have data present, but since there is no provision to edit the channel number, I can't use that to have the DVR record the program.
> 
> Example; the NBC affiliate here is virtual channel 2. The in the clear digital channel shows on non MSO boxes (TV's & DVR's) as 2.1 the way it shows OTA. This MSO places this on the fictitious channel 702. If I could edit that number from 702 to 2.1, thus pointing that listing to the virtual channel number the MSO has given (properly) to that station, there wouldn't be a problem. Either in the Guide or the channel list.


And we are trying to tell you that this is how things are. There is no manual channel mapping. 
If you want the guide data and channels to match properly, *you have to have a cable card.*



videobruce said:


> 1. Maybe I don't want all those additional channels,


What additional channels? Is your cable company saying that your package doesn't include a cable card and they refuse to provide you one? 
If so, then I believe they are mistaken.



videobruce said:


> 2. Maybe I don't want to deal with CC's, Tuning adapters and their damn SDV which is nothing but troubleshooting nightmare. I have read enough posts/threads on the subject.


That's up to you, your choice. You'll just have to live with incorrect channel mapping.



videobruce said:


> 3. The "as intended" is what you are use to and most other DVR's seem to deal with little issue.


 "Most other DVRs" deal with guide data "in house". TiVo is not "most other DVRs".

BTW, this is a perfect example of how cable companies make it hard for TiVo to compete with them.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

videobruce said:


> lrhorer said:
> 
> 
> > Simple solution: Don't use the guide. It's an unnecesary waste of time.
> ...


The guide _data_ is very useful to me; it's what lets season passes, wishlists, and title searches work. The on-screen guide, on the other hand, I hardly ever use because I prefer letting the TiVo handle most of my recordings by auto-recording wishlist or season pass and finding the rest through title searches or (non-recording) wishlists.

Of course, as mentioned above TiVo doesn't provide any manual channel mapping capability for digital cable; so without a cablecard that guide data isn't going to do you much good because there's no way to tell the TiVo that NBC is on QAM channel #nnn.


videobruce said:


> Thats' all fine and dandy, but that is the third 'hidden' (maybe not the best term) way to 'stop' playback.
> 1. LiveTV,
> 2. Left navigation button,
> 3. Record button.
> ...


Actually 'record' again is the 5th way. You didn't list:
3. TiVo button (return to main menu)
4. List button (return to now playing list. Note: not all versions of the peanut remote have this button)

The distiction between stop and pause came from VCR where there was a need to expose that bit of implementation mechanism because leaving the tape paused caused the spinning read/write heads to damage the tape. So they had a seperate button so users could chose between 
A) a short break -- which continued to display the paused image and would resume exactly where you stopped; or
B) a long break -- which didn't display the scene and might not restart exactly where you left off; but wouldn't damage the tape.

I don't really know why DVRs (or DVD or Blu-ray players) really need that distiction anymore; none of them will damage their playback (or recording) medium if they're paused for long periods of time.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

videobruce said:


> Features should not be hidden or buried if you prefer. They also shouldn't be doubled up with other functions;


You are wrong. The other alternative is to have a hundred different dedicated buttons. No one but you wants that.



videobruce said:


> Changing the info screen with the right navigation button for example.


I don't know what you mean by that, but any time an engineer makes a judgement call on what functions to group together or which ones are more important / more frequently used, someone is going to disagree. There is simply no way to please everyone in this respect.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

videobruce said:


> That's all it's suppose to do. That is all it needs to do.


You didn't answer the question. Stop what? There is nothing to stop.



videobruce said:


> Past practice and historically, there is no reason *no* to have one.


Yes, there is, and it is a compelling one. The DVR cannot do what the stop button used to do.



videobruce said:


> Or just less to load.


What would you eliminate? I'm not impressed by hand waving based upon ignorance. Go look at the start-up scripts, and then come back and tell us precisely what you would eliminate.



videobruce said:


> I can almost restore a image of a HDD on a PC in the same amount of time.


I thought I was prone to exaggeration. 

It takes about 5 minutes for a TiVo to boot. A Windows machine with a much faster CPU takes about he same amount of time.



videobruce said:


> Do these ads have anything to do with this?


No. Why would they? In any case, the ads are disabled on my machines, and they boot no faster (give or take a few seconds).



videobruce said:


> Is this not the supposed "premier" DVR?


I supported your right to have high standards and now you are *****ing about it?



videobruce said:


> Should this not be far above all others?


It is. Most of the things you ask would produce an inferior device.



videobruce said:


> *Being satisfied with mediocrity only allows CE companies to produce even more substandard devices.*


There is a difference between mediocrity and essential compromises.


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## ThreeSoFar'sBro (Oct 10, 2004)

I may be wrong, but it appears OP just likes to argue.

Twice in the thread OP mentions paying $500 for a device that he also admitted he got for $115.

Bottom line--learn the device's operation properly, and if you don't like it, get rid of it, sell it, throw it away, whatever...just 

stop your *****ing!

People here have tried to help you and you have no appreciation for it.

This has been the most frustrating thread I've seen in quite some time.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

I still haven't heard an answer on what you want the Stop button to actually do. Sure, you've said "stop watching a program." But then what? What happens when the program stops? Do you just want it to go to a black screen? To Live TV? To the TiVo Central menu?

Since you're using a universal remote, this lack of a Stop button is easily fixable for you. Just map whatever function you want (Standby, Live TV, or TiVo Central) to the Stop button on your remote and be done with it.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

> You don''t want to be able to view channels you are presumably paying for?


Additional channels that are in the list that I don't have or want.


> for the situation you're trying to make work, argument 2 doesn't hold much water. Since you're only concerned with trying to map clear QAM channels, there is no need for a TA for SDV.


The comment was only referring to the "additional channels" comment before.


> While TWC is notorious for terrible technical assistance, the National CableCard hotline for TWC is staffed by knowledgeable people that would make paring the CC take 5 minutes.


The problem isn't a CC, it's their TA that apparently doesn't work locally as posted by another member.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

> And we are trying to tell you that this is how things are. There is no manual channel mapping.
> If you want the guide data and channels to match properly, you have to have a cable card.


I'm (now) more aware "how thing are", but that doesn't mean they are right as in the way they should be. Nothing is cast in stone. The past doesn't have to be the present, things can and should change when they are short sighted.


> TiVo is not "most other DVRs".


It's suppose to be a cut above isn't it??


> I don't really know why DVRs (or DVD or Blu-ray players) really need that distiction anymore


Historically and by past practice. It wasn't broke, it didn't need fixing.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

> You are wrong. The other alternative is to have a hundred different dedicated buttons.


I never said or implied dedicated buttons for *every* single function.


> The DVR cannot do what the stop button used to do.


Does it not stop the playback (reading of the disc)? Just because it doesn't physically stop movement of the disc, it is still a basic function.


> I don't know what you mean by that,


Re; right navigation key. When the info screen is up, toggling the right nav. button changes what is visible on the screen when you change channels.


> It takes about 5 minutes for a TiVo to boot.


And 10 minutes to restore a image (depending on the image size). I said about the same amount of time.


> the ads are disabled on my machines


And this is does exactly how?


> What happens when the program stops?


Choices of saving, deleting then returning to LiveTV.



> I may be wrong, but it appears OP just likes to argue.


*And all you others are doing exactly what? The same thing!*
I'm just responding to *your* comments. I posted my reasons more than once, it's *you* that continue to defend your worshiped DVR. The 'stop' button was only *one* item that *you* continue to make a colossal case over, not me. I guess you guys don't know what attorneys do.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

> it's *you* that continue to defend your worshiped DVR.


And you expected something different? 

This is a forum centered around the TiVo DVR, you know.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

> And you expected something different?


The way it's been doesn't mean it's the most appropriate way or the way it will continue to be. 
Going on and on, centered around *one* of many issues was *not* my doing. Defending a device that has flawed *basic* functions due to narrow minded thinking just because that's the way it's been and you got use to it, is short sighted.

I don't know why this sub forum is even there since according to most, there is nothing wrong with these.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

videobruce said:


> I'm (now) more aware "how thing are", but that doesn't mean they are right as in the way they should be. Nothing is cast in stone. The past doesn't have to be the present, things can and should change when they are short sighted





> Historically and by past practice. It wasn't broke, it didn't need fixing.


Okay, now you're just trying to be funny. You couldn't have possibly been serious when you typed those two completely opposing things literally in the same post, right?


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

One was in reference to devices having a stop button and the comments that it *isn't* needed anymore, the other to do with the lack of editing channel numbers. Two different subjects, two different posts.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

videobruce said:


> One was in reference to devices having a stop button and the comments that it *isn't* needed anymore, the other to do with the lack of editing channel numbers. Two different subjects, two different posts.


Both of my quotes came from the same post:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9482229#post9482229

They were replying to two different subjects, but were from your same post. I'm simply trying to point out the irony that you say in one breath that "nothing is cast in stone...things can and should change" and in the very next breath when replying to a different subject say the exact opposite as for why things shouldn't change: "historically and by past practice; it wasn't broke, it didn't need fixing."

So, in effect: things need to change, but they also need to stay exactly the same because that's how they've always been.


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

Is there any one key method to pull up "My Shows" without having to hit Tivo and then Select? Im trying to program my Harmony.


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## ShayL (Jul 18, 2007)

Davelnlr_ said:


> Is there any one key method to pull up "My Shows" without having to hit Tivo and then Select? Im trying to program my Harmony.


I asked this same question in this thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=460100. There is one, but you have use the TiVo S3 for the Harmony device. There is not if use the Premiere for the Harmony device.


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

ShayL said:


> I asked this same question in this thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=460100. There is one, but you have use the TiVo S3 for the Harmony device. There is not if use the Premiere for the Harmony device.


Thanks for the quick reply. Just added a DirecTv 10-250 to my devices, and learned the LIST command from it, then added it to the Premier codeset, and it works perfectly. Thanks for the link.


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## slacker9876 (Sep 1, 2004)

Man a guy could get killed in this thread!!!

Honestly I always thought the stop button would have been nice for short recordings. For example on my first Series 2 I has wanted to record a snippet of the Today show for my wife, Super Bowl commercials and sadly 9/11, which I happened to be watching live. With HDDs being what the are, space is not so much of a concern. and I probably wouldn't use it unless my wife had missed the Madden series with Ray Lewis and his couch buddy ... those were GREAT!


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

You don't need a stop button to stop the recording. There are multiple methods. While watching, Info -> Select. From the menu, Modify Recording -> Stop Recording.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

Where is the TV/VCR button on my TiVo? I want to switch between channel 3 on the TiVo and channel 3 on broadcast. Oh wait, that makes no sense, just just having a stop button on a hard drive.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

David Platt said:


> I still haven't heard an answer on what you want the Stop button to actually do. Sure, you've said "stop watching a program." But then what? What happens when the program stops? Do you just want it to go to a black screen? To Live TV? To the TiVo Central menu?
> 
> Since you're using a universal remote, this lack of a Stop button is easily fixable for you. Just map whatever function you want (Standby, Live TV, or TiVo Central) to the Stop button on your remote and be done with it.


Still waiting for an answer to my question.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

> I'm simply trying to point out the irony that you say in one breath that "nothing is cast in stone...things can and should change" and in the very next breath when replying to a different subject say the exact opposite as for why things shouldn't change: "historically and by past practice; it wasn't broke, it didn't need fixing."


Very simple, some should change, others should not. Neither is a blanket statement.

To answer your question, exactly what it says, to stop playback (not pause). What else?
There is no reason to discuss this anymore, you stated your view, I stated mine. Case closed on the "stop button".


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

videobruce said:


> To answer your question, exactly what it says, to stop playback (not pause). What else?
> There is no reason to discuss this anymore, you stated your view, I stated mine. Case closed on the "stop button".


But you didn't answer my question at all, and I'm genuinely curious. I totally get that you want the program to stop, but what do you want on the screen when the program stops playing? A TiVo Central screen? Live TV? A blank screen? That's what I'm not getting. Each of these is easily accomplishable with a universal remote; I'm just trying to help you come up with a solution.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

The same thing as what happens with the left navigation key. My point is, don't double up *basic* functions with some other key.

I was going to edit the OP removing the two that I wasn't sure of and adding others, namely the lack of editing the channel numbers so CATV OTA station virtual numbers the tuner shows could be linked with the fictitious three digit number the MSO assigns to that channel in the Guide, but it's apparent that you are all well off enough to afford another $50+ month after month for higher tiers so that is no issue.

Someone that either can't afford that or just doesn't want it is of no importance.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

videobruce said:


> The same thing as what happens with the left navigation key. My point is, don't double up *basic* functions with some other key.


Your point is incoherent.



> _I was going to edit the OP removing the two that I wasn't sure of and adding others, namely the lack of editing the channel numbers so CATV OTA station virtual numbers the tuner shows could be linked with the fictitious three digit number the MSO assigns to that channel in the Guide, but it's apparent that you are all well off enough to afford another $50+ month after month for higher tiers so that is no issue._


The only thing you need to afford is a CableCard, which should be more like $3-5 a month. It has nothing to do with higher tiers.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

Corrected three entries in the original post and added others.
90%+ of the initial list was correct in spite of the first few incorrect comments.

Tell me, do you fan boys own stock in this company? Is that why you can't accept the fact these are flawed beyond belief for a supposed 'mature' product.


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