# It's time to get things started with The Muppets



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I know this has been out awhile, but I don't see a thread for it yet. Coming this fall, we get an all new Muppets TV show on ABC.






Kinda looks like a mashup of The Office/Parks and Recreation style and the old Muppet Show.

I am really excited for this show as I don't have too many comedies being recorded right now and it looks like pure fun.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

Can you setup a season pass for it yet?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Awesome

I love the Muppets


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

It will be nice to see the Muppets in prime time again. I still remember the days when Jim Hensen got started on TV with a short 5-minute show that would air on a local DC station back in the mid 50's to early 60's called Sam and Friends. IIRC, it would come on right before the local evening news and would basically be a short comedy sketch with the Muppets. It was the first time I saw Kermit the Frog on TV. I don't think the other Muppet characters were fleshed out until much later.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

mr.unnatural said:


> It will be nice to see the Muppets in prime time again. I still remember the days when Jim Hensen got started on TV with a short 5-minute show that would air on a local DC station back in the mid 50's to early 60's called Sam and Friends. IIRC, it would come on right before the local evening news and would basically be a short comedy sketch with the Muppets. It was the first time I saw Kermit the Frog on TV. I don't think the other Muppet characters were fleshed out until much later.


There's some "Sam and Friends" material on YouTube:


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

I'm hoping this show will be appropriate for my kids (5 and 3). It would be nice to have a show that they enjoy that I will also enjoy. They love the Muppets movie with Jason Segal and Amy Adams.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Every other Muppet-based show has always been kid-appropriate so I don;t think you'll have anything to worry about. The one thing that always made the Muppets great was that it was something the kids could enjoy and always had jokes and humor the adults could laugh at, too.

I'd love to see them do a reboot of Fraggle Rock or at least release it in HD so my grandkids could enjoy it. So far, I've only seen it released on DVD.


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

When I heard about them coming back, I didn't have high hopes because I figured they'd repeat the format they used years ago (which I usually only watched when they had an interesting guest star). After seeing the trailer, I'll definitely give it a go.


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## 2004raptor (Dec 31, 2005)

aindik said:


> I'm hoping this show will be appropriate for my kids (5 and 3). It would be nice to have a show that they enjoy that I will also enjoy.


I had the same thoughts. Although my kids are 10 and 8. For some reason I heard about this a month or so ago and I _thought_ I'd read that it would have more adult humor. Maybe I'm remembering wrong or I misunderstood.

We'll definitely give it a watch.

I'm sooooooooooooo tired of the Disney channel.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Can't wait!


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

2004raptor said:


> I had the same thoughts. Although my kids are 10 and 8. For some reason I heard about this a month or so ago and I _thought_ I'd read that it would have more adult humor. Maybe I'm remembering wrong or I misunderstood.


_The band...they're always happy...legally now._

I laughed.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I can't wait to see this!


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Some more info out of Comic-Con:


> The trick of the show," Prady explained, "if it works, is to make it feel for the first time that youre seeing The Muppets in our world. Theres no barrier in the world that theyre in and the world that were in."
> 
> The show follows a behind-the-scenes look at a late night talk show hosted by Miss Piggy (that airs after Jimmy Kimmel). Kermit's the executive producer, whose big weakness is that he's hired all his friends. Fozzie is Piggy's talk show sidekick while Gonzo and Pepe are head writers. Sam the Eagle is the network's censor.
> 
> ...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Reports out of Comic-Con are that the panel for The Muppets killed, and several of the actual Muppets made surprise appearances at the panel table.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I love the Muppets. Can't wait.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Kermit the Frog and Miss Piggy formally announced their breakup on Facebook today.



Kermit the Frog said:


> After careful thought, thoughtful consideration and considerable squabbling, Miss Piggy made the difficult decision to terminate our romantic relationship. We will continue to work together on television ("The Muppets"/Tuesdays 8pm this fall on ABC) and in all media now known or hereafter devised, in perpetuity, throughout the universe. However, our personal lives are now distinct and separate, and we will be seeing other people, pigs, frogs, et al. This is our only comment on this private matter. Thank you for your understanding.





Miss Piggy said:


> After careful thought, thoughtful consideration and considerable squabbling, Kermit the Frog and moi have made the difficult decision to terminate our romantic relationship. We will continue to work together on television ("The Muppets"/Tuesdays 8pm this fall on ABC) and in all media now known or hereafter devised, in perpetuity, throughout the universe. However, our personal lives are now distinct and separate, and we will be seeing other people, pigs, frogs, et al. This is our only comment on this private matter&#8230; unless we get the right offer. Thank you for your understanding.


Haha I love the slight differences


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## jamesl (Jul 12, 2012)

yeah, I saw that 

I don't really like this announcement 

I guess I'm still stuck on the old Muppet Show where Miss Piggy was chasing Kermit all time 

I see this as a foreshadowing of what's to come: new characters who will become new love interests for Miss Piggy and Kermit 

for me getting rid of Miss Piggy chasing Kermit and his constant rejection of her changes one of the main dynamics and running plots/jokes of the entire series 

next they'll be telling us one of the two old guys has had a change of heart and actually likes the show


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

jamesl said:


> next they'll be telling us one of the two old guys has had a change of heart and actually likes the show


Likes the show? We're not even on the Facebook!


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I'd guess that Kermit and Piggy will be the Jim and Pam of the series, dating others until eventually they come together.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jamesl said:


> yeah, I saw that I don't really like this announcement I guess I'm still stuck on the old Muppet Show where Miss Piggy was chasing Kermit all time I see this as a foreshadowing of what's to come: new characters who will become new love interests for Miss Piggy and Kermit for me getting rid of Miss Piggy chasing Kermit and his constant rejection of her changes one of the main dynamics and running plots/jokes of the entire series next they'll be telling us one of the two old guys has had a change of heart and actually likes the show


Read DancnDude's post a few posts up. What you're afraid of is already confirmed. But I suspect that will have a positive effect, as a jealous Piggy is a funny Piggy.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

jamesl said:


> I don't really like this announcement
> 
> I guess I'm still stuck on the old Muppet Show where Miss Piggy was chasing Kermit all time
> 
> ...


i have faith the showrunners are aware of this and the change is strategic to new plot lines - i don't see them abandoning decades old relationships entirely, or on a whim, so i'll wait and see.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

NorthAlabama said:


> i have faith the showrunners are aware of this and the change is strategic to new plot lines - i don't see them abandoning decades old relationships entirely, or on a whim, so i'll wait and see.


Were they together at the end of the most recent movie (the one with Tina Fey)? I haven't seen it, but at the end of the previous one (the one with Jason Segal), they were not.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

aindik said:


> Were they together at the end of the most recent movie (the one with Tina Fey)? I haven't seen it, but at the end of the previous one (the one with Jason Segal), they were not.


i can't remember, probably wasn't paying attention. i still believe it's possible for the showrunners to handle changes gently without destroying or the original premise forever.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

NorthAlabama said:


> i can't remember, probably wasn't paying attention. i still believe it's possible for the showrunners to handle changes gently without destroying or the original premise forever.


I was just asking because the announcement kind of confused me.

They're breaking up. Did we have any reason to believe they were together in the first place?

And, of course this announcement came directly from the show runners. Why would anyone assume it's independent of that?


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Is Frank Oz involved? The last couple movies bugged me because Miss Piggy and Fozzie didn't sound quite right.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

It's well played. It's a take/joke on the recent spate of well known big name couples splitting up. Blake Shelton and Miranda Lambert. Will and Jada Smith.


This is funny stuff and well timed.


Kermie and Piggy's relationship has always been a little complicated.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Well, they were married in The Muppets Take Manhattan.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> Will and Jada Smith.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Last I heard that was yet another rumor...
> ...


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

gweempose said:


> Is Frank Oz involved? The last couple movies bugged me because Miss Piggy and Fozzie didn't sound quite right.


Apparently Miss Piggy and Fozzie are being performed by Eric Jacobson, who has done so for the past eight or so years.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

aindik said:


> Were they together at the end of the most recent movie (the one with Tina Fey)? I haven't seen it, but at the end of the previous one (the one with Jason Segal), they were not.


Spoliers!!!


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

It's been almost 40 years since the original muppet show and they still look good.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

scandia101 said:


> It's been almost 40 years since the original muppet show and they still look good.


Miss Piggy looks like she's had some work done.


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## jjd_87 (Jan 31, 2011)

Here is a video that came out after comic con that is supposedly the pitch video for the show. Basically a longer version of the original trailer but there are some funny moments in it that you haven't seen.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

So?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

I haven't watched it yet, but One Million[sic] Moms has come out against the show, so it must be good.

http://fortune.com/2015/09/21/one-million-moms-muppets/


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

Kermit says he likes pigs.


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## ehusen (Jan 7, 2002)

I gotta say, I love the Muppets but I didn't love this. And it is because the Muppets are something from my childhood that always had a heartwarming innocent quality to it but still entertaining.

This show is much more adult in nature, not that there is anything wrong with that, but I don't really want these lovable little puppets in those sorts of situations.

It had some entertaining bits and I'll keep watching but the show gave me the feeling of watching one of those little girl beauty pageants.

Sigh, maybe I'm just getting old...

Beaker getting tazed was pretty funny though...


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

It was clever, entertaining, and occasionally funny, but I don't think there's going to be enough here to maintain an entire series. I hope to be proven wrong. Specifically, I worry that the shows they are referencing (mockumentaries like the office, some 30 rock, maybe a little Larry Sanders) don't have enough to latch onto for parody, so then it just becomes a less funny version of those shows.


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

There were some good lines. I understand people not liking the more adult take on it, but the way I see it is we're getting a behind-the-scenes of them in real life. The movies were movies they starred in, but this is who they really are. (Weird, considering they're puppets.)

Favorite joke from Fozzie: "When your online profile says 'passionate bear looking for love' you get a lot of wrong responses."

I was dying.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

Thunderclap said:


> Favorite joke from Fozzie: "When your online profile says 'passionate bear looking for love' you get a lot of wrong responses."


"Err....Not wrong, just wrong for *me*"

The Muppet version of NTTAWT.

--Carlos "gets his fish at Costco" V.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Had a couple pretty good lines.


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

Unbeliever said:


> "Err....Not wrong, just wrong for *me*"
> 
> The Muppet version of NTTAWT.
> 
> --Carlos "gets his fish at Costco" V.


Yup. Forgot the final sentence. My bad.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

I thought it was cute. If OMM is going to boycott it, then I'll have to make sure to watch it.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

So far the best broadcast pilot of the new season. It's really not much more grown up than the old 1970s variety show which had inside stuff for adults as well. 

P.S. I did a double take upon gladly realizing it was like Riki Lindhome night on ABC last night.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

series5orpremier said:


> P.S. I did a double take upon gladly realizing it was like Riki Lindhome night on ABC last night.


I also caught her on both The Muppets and Fresh Off the Boat last night.


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

I thought it was fun and has potential.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Thunderclap said:


> There were some good lines. I understand people not liking the more adult take on it, but the way I see it is we're getting a behind-the-scenes of them in real life. The movies were movies they starred in, but this is who they really are. (Weird, considering they're puppets.)
> 
> Favorite joke from Fozzie: "When your online profile says 'passionate bear looking for love' you get a lot of wrong responses."
> 
> I was dying.


Yeah, that line got a big laugh out of me as well.
Overall I didn't love the first episode; but I'm hoping it finds its legs once it's a episodes in.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

I thought it was a bit uneven, But that might be my bias based on who these characters have been for almost 40 years (or longer for Kermit). 

I loved Beaker getting tazed, and thought Dr. Bunsen Honeydew's response about wearing gloves was priceless. 

I think Sam as the censor is perfect as well. Gesticulate....LOL

It's one I'll watch, but not one I can share with my 4 yo grandson.


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

series5orpremier said:


> So far the best broadcast pilot of the new season. It's really not much more grown up than the old 1970s variety show which had inside stuff for adults as well.


I agree. I laughed quite a bit whereas for many of the other "comedy" shows I hardly laugh at all. I forget the exact line but at one point Kermit says something is "sexy." That was probably the first time he's ever said that and it was quite funny.

For those of you who think its wrong for the Muppets to be slightly adult oriented then this show is not for you. But others, like myself, will definitely enjoy this show!

Gerry


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

"He likes the salmon, what a surprise."
"If I'd known I would have kept some raw for you."
And the whole Tom Bergeron thing.


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## Tracy (Mar 12, 2000)

I really didn't like it. My husband and I are both Muppets fans but this was just bizarre! It was like when they took the Brady Bunch and gave them a serious drama. I'm all for a little adult humor but it was making me very uncomfortable. I don't want to imagine Kermit aroused or Fozzie and a human girl having sex. Even the tazing scene seemed overly cruel and unfunny. Very disappointing.


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

One thing that really stood out to me was the voice of Janice (guitar player in Electric Mayhem). It sounded nothing like her... at least to me it didn't.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Where did all this adult humor stuff come from? It's rated TV-G in a time period that reflects that. They are inanimate puppets. Anything weird about it is in the beholder's head. I recall fundamentalist groups playing the same game trying to dictate the script 40 years ago, including the accusations of inter-species sex and that Bert and Ernie are a gay couple. People like to put a nostalgic glow on their memories imagining everything used to be better in 'the good old days', but that's usually not true after fact-checking. The content is basically the same as it was 40 years ago, including the occasional violence. Don't let the terrorists win.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I love the Muppets. I don't dislike the idea behind this show, nor do I necessarily dislike the idea of a more mature Muppet Show. I just didn't think it was funny. It just all fell kind of flat to me. I do hope it finds its footing.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

I loved it. 

I thought that the updates were good choices; I don't think that a vaudeville/variety theater show setting, as the original was, would have been at all relevant these days. A late night talk show was a good, more modern choice. A sketch show a la SNL would have been the next best alternative, as that would have been the closest modern equivalent to the original setting.

I also liked the decision not to have a laugh track. I'm not always the biggest fan of no laugh track comedies, but for me it really worked here. The writing was strong enough that it didn't need a laugh track.

The decision to break up Miss Piggy and Kermit was a brave decision, and I know that was one of a few decisions that I'm sure really irritated long time Muppets fans. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I also thought that some of the bits involving Fozzie and his girlfriend were a little weird as well, although it did lend to some amusing lines.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

OMG, in the writers room, when Gonzo was pitching the Dancing with the Czars sketch, on the whiteboard behind the PA was written "ce pas un tableau blanc" lol.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Overall, it feels like a puppet version of The Larry Sanders Show, crossed with The Office and Modern Family. I think it's great. And that it seems to be pissing off reprehensible people is a huge bonus.


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## Odds Bodkins (Jun 7, 2006)

Very solid effort for a pilot. I'll be sticking around for a while.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

The preview video that was put out a while ago, Fozzie's girlfriend was a different actress, no? Wasn't it a brunette?


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## MLR930 (Dec 26, 2002)

I liked it. What a lot of people fail to realize is that Jim Henson never wanted the Muppets to be kiddie characters and even had an earlier show featuring them called Sex and Violence.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I always thought the 70s Muppet Show was full of double entendres and adult humor. It's maybe a little less subtle now, but to claim that this new version is somehow "perverted" like the Million Moms did is ridiculous, as the Muppets have always been a little on the risque side.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I liked it. But I've always loved the Muppets. Just so many characters I like. There were plenty of "adult" jokes in it too. Fozzie's joke about ads looking for bears was funny. lol


If I have a complaint, it's that it's the nature of the show in a show. It didn't seem to be a variety show. So, I am worried we won't see all the characters in sketches like I am used to seeing them.. Of course, they are all around at the Miss Piggy Show. So maybe we will actually see them


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

I was looking forward to it, but didn't like it all that much once I watched it. My wife didn't say anything to each other during the whole episode and as soon as it was done, we both agreed we were disappointed. Neither of us laughed at all.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

We really liked it too. Definitely promising.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I thought it was just ok. There were some good lines, but overall, it seemed to me like they were trying too hard to emulate 30 Rock (and The Office, which I didn't watch but read the comparisons in a few reviews). I think it has to find it's own niche to work. I'm not sure the show can hold up to cute Muppets saying few double entendres every week. Still I'm in, at least for now.


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## andyw715 (Jul 31, 2007)

I haven't watched yet, but are Statler and Waldorf in it? Those guys were the best.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

andyw715 said:


> I haven't watched yet, but are Statler and Waldorf in it? Those guys were the best.


Yes, indeed!


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Did you catch Kermit's homage to the old show just before the opening credits?


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

The Muppets in the movies were characters, but these are the "real" Muppets, behind the scenes.

Well, the real Kermit is kind of an a- hole. 

I didn't have a problem with the adult humor. That'll fly over my kids' heads. I had a problem with the characters being kind of cynical and bitter.

Maybe reading Alan Sepinwall's review before watching it colored my viewpoint, but I saw it exactly like he did.

We'll keep watching, though.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

busyba said:


> I haven't watched it yet, but One Million[sic] Moms has come out against the show, so it must be good.
> 
> http://fortune.com/2015/09/21/one-million-moms-muppets/


I'm going to guess that they didn't actually watch the pilot episode.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

aindik said:


> The Muppets in the movies were characters, but these are the "real" Muppets, behind the scenes.
> 
> Well, the real Kermit is kind of an a- hole.
> 
> I didn't have a problem with the adult humor. That'll fly over my kids' heads. I had a problem with the characters being kind of cynical and bitter.


It's not necessarily a problem if it's just the start of the character's journey though.

I saw this on Facebook, and he seems to nail it:




__ https://www.facebook.com/douglas.mackrell/posts/10153677858296983



Most of the disdain that I've read from critics of The Muppets stems from Kermit's callous demeanor and emotional detachment. He's clearly burnt out and the same passion that he once had for Miss Piggy is equally gone from his life. Gone is the daydream believer that (sometimes single handedly) made the rainbow connection between the mortal fallible artists and their lofty artistic ambitions, and all that is left is the exasperated show runner who has come to the realization that dreams are worthless. This Kermit has sold his soul for an easy paycheck for doing something he doesn't believe in and blunders into a girlfriend he doesn't have to put effort into, yet fragments of that old Kermit remain - surfacing as a stress eating problem and glimmers of the man who once held together a ragtag variety show that played to sold out theaters.

People seem upset that we once again get a TV version of the shattered and despondent Kermit that we saw hole himself up in a mansion to wallow in self pity in The Muppets (the movie). A decidedly modern take on a character in this post-financial crisis world of shattered dreams, devalued art, and cynicism. A Kermit born from a very modern-day Gen X sensibility - where those of a certain age feel out-of-step with society. A malaise of midlife crisis hopelessness squats over Kermit (and much of the pilot of this episode) as he goes through the motions of putting on a show in a dying format for an aging late night audience. He doesn't care about Miss Piggy, he doesn't care about the celebrities he books for the show, he just doesn't care.

But all of this has created a flawed character. One that's broken and has something to do and someplace to go. He's not at the top of his game anymore. He's not the perfect Kermit we've seen in the past. We finally have a chance to have a dynamic Kermit. One who's capable of change, but also responsible for his own change. Before, he was the one fighting a never ending battle to change other people's hearts... This time, he needs to fight for his own.

People hate change. So seeing their favorite characters represented with flaws (where before there was none) is difficult for them. But for this show to evolve from it's episodic variety show roots into a dynamic story with continuity - it needs to break it's characters. We're seeing Level 1 Kermit here. Level 1 Miss Piggy. Level 1 Fozzy (though they need to get some stronger female characters in this mix after introducing the one-note fawning and ever-doting girlfriends of Kermit and Fozzy). These characters will level up, we just need to give them a chance.

The Muppets ABC isn't heartless, it's on a quest to find it's heart again. That's the whole point.​


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

I'm looking at this as a show that my kids can watch with my wife and me, and we can all enjoy it. I'm not watching it if my kids can't. I'm not that interested.

They can wait through a two hour movie to see a sad character get happy again. They can't wait weeks and weeks through an episodic television show.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

aindik said:


> I'm looking at this as a show that my kids can watch with my wife and me, and we can all enjoy it.


Maybe that's not the target demo they're going for.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

busyba said:


> Maybe that's not the target demo they're going for.


That's the Muppet demo. If they wanted to make a show about a disgruntled show runner and his ex girlfriend as the host, they shouldn't have used such well known children's characters.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

aindik said:


> That's the Muppet demo. If they wanted to make a show about a disgruntled show runner and his ex girlfriend as the host, they shouldn't have used such well known children's characters.


It's The Muppets, not Sesame Street. There's a difference. This misconception that people are entitled to a "kid-friendly" Muppet completely ignores both history and Jim Henson's visions.

And that's before we even get into the fact that "think of the children" is never going to be a particularly persuasive argument with me.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

busyba said:


> It's The Muppets, not Sesame Street. There's a difference. This misconception that people are entitled to a "kid-friendly" Muppet completely ignores both history and Jim Henson's visions.
> 
> And that's before we even get into the fact that "think of the children" is never going to be a particularly persuasive argument with me.


This isn't a public policy question. And I'm not saying everything on TV, or everything on network TV, or everything at 8:00, should be kid friendly. But this is the freaking Muppets. They have, as you say, 40 years of history baked in.

Sesame Street is for kids. The Muppets was for families. Not for grown ups by themselves.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

busyba said:


> I haven't watched it yet, but One Million[sic] Moms has come out against the show, so it must be good.
> 
> http://fortune.com/2015/09/21/one-million-moms-muppets/


Reminds me in the 1970ies when the Life of Brian movie came out. The right wing Bible thumpers were out picketing the movie in Virginia Beach. I was stationed in Norfolk at the time and went out of my way to cross the protesters picket line to see the movie that I had not initially planned on seeing.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

aindik said:


> That's the Muppet demo. If they wanted to make a show about a disgruntled show runner and his ex girlfriend as the host, they shouldn't have used such well known children's characters.





aindik said:


> This isn't a public policy question. And I'm not saying everything on TV, or everything on network TV, or everything at 8:00, should be kid friendly. But this is the freaking Muppets. They have, as you say, 40 years of history baked in.
> 
> Sesame Street is for kids. The Muppets was for families. Not for grown ups by themselves.


I think the point busyba is trying to make is that The Muppets have never been "children's characters." They've always been edgy and sarcastic and spouted double entendres. The reason ABC is bringing them back is not to cater to kids. It's to cater to the 30-50 year-olds who have fond memories of The Muppets and will watch now out of a sense of nostalgia. It's the same reason they are remaking Full House and just came out with a new version of Boy Meets World and just released a new Jurassic Park movie. Nostalgia is huge in Hollywood.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think the point busyba is trying to make is that The Muppets have never been "children's characters." They've always been edgy and sarcastic and spouted double entendres. The reason ABC is bringing them back is not to cater to kids. It's to cater to the 30-50 year-olds who have fond memories of The Muppets and will watch now out of a sense of nostalgia. It's the same reason they are remaking Full House and just came out with a new version of Boy Meets World and just released a new Jurassic Park movie. Nostalgia is huge in Hollywood.


The new Boy (now Girl) Meets World is for kids. It's on the Disney channel. It's so parents who watched that show when they were kids would show it to and/or watch it with their own kids. We haven't seen Fuller House yet, but I assume it's the same type of thing. I don't think they're getting that cast together under that title/brand so that Bob Saget can do the jokes he does in his standup act. Saget, Stamos, etc., they do their own things across other demographics, but Full House is what it is.

Regardless of what those other shows are or aren't, the Muppets always said things only grownups understood, and wink-winked at the fourth wall, or poked fun at show biz tropes, made adult-oriented jokes that flew over kids heads. I have no problem with that. This is different. This is an overt tone of the entire production that turns off kids.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

And I also don't really think the original _The Muppet Show_ was necessarily "for families" on purpose. It was a show for adults, that just happened to also be suitable for kids because schmaltzy variety shows, like Sonny & Cher and Donny & Marie, were the kind of things they were making for adults back then.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

aindik said:


> This isn't a public policy question. And I'm not saying everything on TV, or everything on network TV, or everything at 8:00, should be kid friendly. But this is the freaking Muppets. They have, as you say, 40 years of history baked in.
> 
> Sesame Street is for kids. The Muppets was for families. Not for grown ups by themselves.


Things change. The Muppets can be anything they want them to be.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

My family all enjoyed it quite a bit. Youngest is 12.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

busyba said:


> It's not necessarily a problem if it's just the start of the character's journey though.
> 
> I saw this on Facebook, and he seems to nail it:
> 
> ...


It's a frigging TV show that's sole purpose is to make us laugh. Really, are we going to go that deep into a fictional puppet character's psyche?


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

busyba said:


> It's not necessarily a problem if it's just the start of the character's journey though.


This was basically my internal reaction to all the over-analysis from those complaining it isn't the exact same show it used to be. Of course it isn't - a lot of time has passed. But having them affected by real world drudgery I think humanizes them further and makes them more relatable than ever. Instead of giving each of them the constant demeanor someone most affectionately remembers them for, by giving them emotional ups and downs it should give their occasional triumphs that much more value and meaning.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> Things change. The Muppets can be anything they want them to be.


Well, yeah. Sure. I'm just explaining why I was disappointed in what they apparently want the Muppets to be now.

That's what we do here, is it not? It's a thread about the first episode of a show. Everyone has to like it?


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> It's a frigging TV show that's sole purpose is to make us laugh. Really, are we going to go that deep into a fictional puppet character's psyche?


Most good sitcoms are layered, to get a point across with humor, but to also have deeper meaning.

MASH did this, Scrubs did this.

Almost every sitcom out there does it to some extent.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Langree said:


> Most good sitcoms are layered, to get a point across with humor, but to also have deeper meaning.
> 
> MASH did this, Scrubs did this.
> 
> Almost every sitcom out there does it to some extent.


Community did this, and Steve _loved_ that sho--oh, wait....


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

aindik said:


> This is different. This is an overt tone of the entire production that turns off kids.


 I'm ok with this.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

I really think a lot of people don't really remember the old show very well (I know I didn't, until re-watching some clips). For example, how kid friendly are these, really?

Serial killer type activity (kidnapping a door-to-door salesman, poisoning someone else, etc.): 




Rachel Welch being pretty sexy: 




Alice Cooper serenading Miss Piggy, trying to get her to sell her soul to the devil, singing about passion starting to rise: 




Here's a rendition of a song named "The Tit-Willow", which also includes "dicky bird" in the lyrics:


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

I didn't find anything in the show that I found to be exceptionally adult-oriented. I think the humor is more adult-_appreciated_, but not really risqué.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

bobcarn said:


> I didn't find anything in the show that I found to be exceptionally adult-oriented. I think the humor is more adult-_appreciated_, but not really risqué.


To be clear, again, I wasn't complaining about adult oriented humor. I was complaining about the depressing tone.

Not sure if your comment is directed at me or not.


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## BrandonRe (Jul 15, 2006)

I watched it and was unimpressed. It seemed like a show that didn't know what it wanted to be. Is it a comedy? If so, then it failed in my eyes, as I didn't find it very funny at all. I have 10 and 12 year old daughters. I didn't see or hear anything that would make me not want them watching the show. But I also didn't see anything that I think would appeal to them. They haven't seen it yet and haven't seemed especially interested to. 

As I was writing this, I think I figured out why it doesn't work for me. In other mockumentary-style shows (The Office, etc) I think there is a significant use of facial expression to break the 4th wall with the audience, either overtly or more subtly. You can't really get that same effect with puppets.I think for me that is a big reason it didn't connect. I don't think the style of show they are presenting works with puppets. Others obviously have different opinions and that's good. But I doubt I'll stick around for long unless subsequent shows improve a lot.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

not thrilled with the pilot, but not ready to bail, at least not yet. there were funny moments, and given the time slot, plus the weekend repeats, i'm willing to keep the 1p to give it a chance.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> not thrilled with the pilot, but not ready to bail, at least not yet. there were funny moments, and given the time slot, plus the weekend repeats, i'm willing to keep the 1p to give it a chance.


I wouldn't expect the weekend repeats to continue. Many networks do that for the pilot to try and rope in more viewers and bring them back for the second episode. But it's very rare for a network show to have a regularly-scheduled reairing later in the week.


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

I definitely felt like the pilot was uneven (as most pilots are). But the bear personal ad joke was funny enough to keep me in for a little while. I also thought the crack where Kermit called Miss Piggy a lunatic was funny, and I also laughed at "OK, I'm attracted to pigs."


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## JTAnderson (Jun 6, 2000)

It's no Alf.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I liked it OK. I like that they're going for an Office type vibe with the individual interviews and behind the scenes stuff. I also found a lot of the jokes to be adult skewed. Not offensive, but things kids probably wouldn't get. Like "What if you have kids? Where are they going to go to the bathroom? In the woods?". Not sure kids will get the reference to the "Do bears sh*t in the woods?" saying.


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## Royster (May 24, 2002)

bobcarn said:


> I didn't find anything in the show that I found to be exceptionally adult-oriented. I think the humor is more adult-_appreciated_, but not really risqué.


I think you missed it.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

I don't mind taking an old idea and updating it, but there should be some spark of surprise and wit when doing it.

Like the beginning of the first episode of _Sherlock_,



Spoiler



which opens with Watson in modern-day Afghanistan.



There's no fun, no sense of "That's perfect! Why didn't I think of that?"

Only Statler and Waldorf seemed true to character. Everything else was just weird.

Really don't care for it when a creator takes characters I like and sends them off in a strange new direction that seems out of character with what has already gone before. Not my characters, it's their prerogative -- but it bugs me.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

murgatroyd said:


> Only Statler and Waldorf seemed true to character. Everything else was just weird.


I actually thought the Statler and Waldorf stuff was the worst part of the new show. In the old show, they're sitting in the audience, acting as stand-ins for the home viewing audience, and making cracks about the acts on the show. But here, they're making jokes about Fozzie doing audience warm up, and berating him for doing the same jokes he'd done every day before. But that's not a smart or funny critique. All that does is show how stupid they are for sitting in the audience of the same show every day. That would be like if someone followed a famous comedian around to every show and then heckled them for doing the same set night after night. That's not the comedian doing something wrong, that's the audience member being an idiot.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I actually thought the Statler and Waldorf stuff was the worst part of the new show....


Good points.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> I actually thought the Statler and Waldorf stuff was the worst part of the new show. In the old show, they're sitting in the audience, acting as stand-ins for the home viewing audience, and making cracks about the acts on the show. But here, they're making jokes about Fozzie doing audience warm up, and berating him for doing the same jokes he'd done every day before. But that's not a smart or funny critique. All that does is show how stupid they are for sitting in the audience of the same show every day. That would be like if someone followed a famous comedian around to every show and then heckled them for doing the same set night after night. That's not the comedian doing something wrong, that's the audience member being an idiot.


I Think with the new format they had to find a place for Statler and Waldorf, there is no Balcony in this version. They pretty much did the same in the old show, sat in/with the audience every week and heckled the acts on stage. Why did they go to every show back then?


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

busyba said:


> OMG, in the writers room, when Gonzo was pitching the Dancing with the Czars sketch, on the whiteboard behind the PA was written "ce pas un tableau blanc" lol.


Nice catch, I missed that.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Well, I missed recording it. Not sure I should bother looking for it on-demand as the reviews (here) have been kind of mixed. For the record, I was in my early teens when I watched this show. My kids never watched it except for a couple of the movies (which haven't been great, IMO) or some clips I showed them on youtube (like the Swedish Chef). So this show isn't aimed at kids but at old farts like me who remember the show from 40 years ago. It's not like Sesame Street which has been on the air all this time, with new characters being added along with new generations of kid viewers.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Langree said:


> I Think with the new format they had to find a place for Statler and Waldorf, there is no Balcony in this version. They pretty much did the same in the old show, sat in/with the audience every week and heckled the acts on stage. Why did they go to every show back then?


My point was that they were making fun of the warm-up guy's act, which of course it's likely to be mostly the same every night because it's expected that the audience will be different every night. That's not witty or biting commentary. That's just dumb. That would be like the Statler and Waldorf from the old show making fun of a theater employee for wearing the same uniform for every show.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Royster said:


> I think you missed it.


I must have, because it seemed rather tame compared to other things in the same time slot.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

The shot of Kermit's new pigfriend suggestively fellating her straw was pretty , but I doubt anyone who shouldn't have noticed it did.


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## Royster (May 24, 2002)

There was Fozzi joke near the end that I initially laughed at and then thought "I hope my daughter didn't get that" but I can't remember what it was.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Watched it on-demand. Had an overwhelming sense I've seen it before when it was called The Gary Shandling Show. Kermit is badly miscast as "Artie". 

I don't think I laughed even once.


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## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

It was mediocre at best. Not really all that funny. I'll give it a few more episodes before I call it a flop. Never judge a show by it's pilot episode.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

My kids, aged 1-12, all loved it.

This is their first show they've watched as it's aired. They're thoroughly perplexed as to why we can't immediately watch another one.


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## 2004raptor (Dec 31, 2005)

I thought the first episode was pretty decent. Had some funny moments. The second episode...not so much. Not really sure what we didn't like about it but it wasn't as good.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

We are really enjoying it... Episode 2 may have been funnier than the first one to us.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

I'm still enjoying it. I don't find it LOL-funny at all, but I do find it amusing and it's managing to keep me engaged for its half an hour.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Robin said:


> My kids, aged 1-12, all loved it.
> 
> This is their first show they've watched as it's aired. *They're thoroughly perplexed as to why we can't immediately watch another one.*


This cracked me up. Our kids are SO spoiled


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I'm not sure, but there's something about this show that's just not grabbing me. I have to admit I was only an occasional viewer of the original Muppet Show, but I've seen many of the movies multiple times and am very familiar with all the Muppet foibles. I think they are trying WAY too hard to make this appeal to an adult audience, where I think the Muppets themselves have some appeal without having adult topics. I think , from what I've seen of the original and the movies that there's always been some double entandres (spell check not fixing this word), but I thought it was more in the context that adults will get the joke even if the main story was more family oriented. I think that's the sweet spot for me.

My family seems to like it much more than I, so I'll probably keep watching until they get bored with it as well.


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

BrettStah said:


> We are really enjoying it... Episode 2 may have been funnier than the first one to us.


My wife and I thought the same thing too. Episode 2 had for more funny moments to us. We're loving the jokes that would go over kids heads.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> This cracked me up. Our kids are SO spoiled


Right? They're annoyed we have to go to the effort of ffing through commercials.

I can't imagine what they'd do if they actually had to WATCH one.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I really like it. I've always liked the Muppets, but this feels different. They're the same characters but the tone of the jokes feels much more adult.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

I wonder if some people are only half paying attention these days when they watch TV (I'm sometimes guilty of it). There's a lot of quick things that can easily be missed - the big bear selling cookies, the Swedish chef, the shrimp, and so on.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Is this a season-long spoiler thread now?


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

The bear selling cookies is a spoiler?


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Why is Rowlf not in this?


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

BrettStah said:


> the shrimp,












--Carlos V.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

pdhenry said:


> The bear selling cookies is a spoiler?


I'm just asking about the thread. Not in specific reference to anything anyone has posted yet.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

No, this is not a spoiler thread. If people want to post spoilers we'll need a new thread for that.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

series5orpremier said:


> Where did all this adult humor stuff come from? It's rated TV-G in a time period that reflects that.


In a time period? Wow.. I forget if it's still at 8pm. But I suggest to NOT watch "Two Broke Girls". It might give you a heart attack.

(BTW, I am NOT attacking you. I am laughing a lot at The Muppets, but I think the jokes are a bit _too_ adult, yet most of them I think would fly by little kids, since they are pretty well hidden.. I ALSO really like "Two Broke Girls", but am shocked by the stuff they're allowed to say, when I hear Garry Marshall talking about having to make up terms like "vo dee yo do" to be even VAGUELY adult.)

EDIT: and now fully re-reading your post, you weren't saying it was too adult at all.. sorry.. But I'll still leave my post here.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

I record it on the TiVo and watch it later in the evening so that the adult material is ok.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

I'm fine with "adult material that goes over kids heads."

But sometimes it doesn't.

Not exactly subtle:


Spoiler



Larry Fishburne telling Kermit his show "sucks," multiple times.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

I'm pretty sure is was the meaning used:

From google:

3. _NORTH AMERICAN informal_

be very bad, disagreeable, or disgusting.

"I love your country, but the weather sucks"

synonyms: be very bad, be awful, be terrible, be dreadful, be horrible; informal

"the weather sucks"


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

BrettStah said:


> I'm pretty sure is was the meaning used:
> 
> From google:
> 
> ...


Um, yeah. Did you think I didn't know what it meant?

Still a word I'd rather my kids not repeat.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Well, I was wondering what was wrong with it and thought maybe the official meaning was always dirty, despite its common "it's bad" usage. I guess to me, if my kid says "that movie sucks" or "that movie is awful", I would not think anything differently, in other words. It's innocuous in that context (to me).


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

BrettStah said:


> Well, I was wondering what was wrong with it and thought maybe the official meaning was always dirty, despite its common "it's bad" usage. I guess to me, if my kid says "that movie sucks" or "that movie is awful", I would not think anything differently, in other words. It's innocuous in that context (to me).


The usage derives from something dirty. Sometimes the full version of the phrase is still used, which includes the object of the verb "to suck." And I'm not talking about an egg. That's where the usage of the word comes from, and is why I don't want my kids to repeat it.

You could say this show is a piece of s*it. You don't mean it literally, but that word in that context is synonymous with being terrible, because of what it literally means.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

I guess I can see that - just saying that to me, it's lost that original meaning, when used in the "it sucks" or "that sucks" context.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Are you aware of a source that shows that this usage actually does derive from "something dirty", by the way? I didn't see any sort of references to it in my admittedly short Google search.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

BrettStah said:


> Are you aware of a source that shows that this usage actually does derive from "something dirty", by the way? I didn't see any sort of references to it in my admittedly short Google search.


You've never heard anyone say that something "sucks ass" or "sucks d***"?


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Too many times to count! 

But how do you know that the "that sucks!" and "it sucks!" Usage derives from those?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

My vacuum cleaner sucks in more ways than one.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Nothing sucks like Electrolux.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Use to say in nuclear power the only thing that Westinghouse makes that doesn't suck are their vacuum cleaners.


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## Odds Bodkins (Jun 7, 2006)

danterner said:


> Why is Rowlf not in this?


Spent 15 minutes googling this exact question last week and couldn't come up with anything.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Perhaps it's a plot point for a future episode. They're only two episodes in.



Spoiler



There's no reason they wouldn't have Rowlf. The voice actor who does Rowlf is part of the cast. In fact, IMDB credits him with doing the voice of Rowlf in upcoming episodes.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Rowlf was in the trailer. He was wearing one of those cones dogs wear to keep them from biting themselves.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Who played Fozzi's girlfriend? Looked very familiar,but when I googled a different actress keeps coming up.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Riki Lindhome, from Garfunkel & Oates, Another Period, and numerous guest appearances on other TV series.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

the count is busy studying for common core.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> the count is busy studying for common core.


Is The Count a Muppets character or a Sesame Street character?


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Yes.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

series5orpremier said:


> Riki Lindhome, from Garfunkel & Oates, Another Period, and numerous guest appearances on other TV series.


Thanks. Still not sure why she looked familiar. My daughters watched Drop Dead Diva -- maybe I remember her from the one episode she was in that?

Anyhow, when I googled "fozzie's girlfriend" I get someone named Margo Harshman (http://2paragraphs.com/2015/09/who-is-fozzies-girlfriend-on-the-muppets/). Did they re-cast the part after the trailer aired?


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

pdhenry said:


> Yes.


Ah! Ah! Ah!


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

I got some good chuckles out of the 2nd one. The whole Larry Fishburne thing cracked me up.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

aindik said:


> Um, yeah. Did you think I didn't know what it meant?
> 
> Still a word I'd rather my kids not repeat.


I believe the show is rated TV-PG. It's not what I would consider to be bad, but a PG show is definitely something that will have some stronger language.


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## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

I could swear I heard Kermit say the word "sexy," and that really put me off.
I thought the official line (especially in discussions about Bert and Ernie) was that muppets were non-sexual.

I generally don't have a problem with kid-unfriendly sexy stuff on network tv, even at 8pm.

But not the muppets! That's crossing a line with me.

Outside of that, I only saw episode 2 and was lukewarm. I'll stick with it a little while though. When I heard about the mockumentary concept, I actually thought it would be something interesting to try. So far, I don't have a problem with that.

The Kermit/Piggy relationship is so uncomfortable to watch though, even at Comic Con or Jimmy Kimmel. It's a testament to the performers that they can do awkward so convincingly. But I don't like it.


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## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

While this is not the best show ever, it is certainly not the worst. I have not encouraged my kids to watch it because I don't think they'll enjoy it. Me and the wife are laughing enough to keep watching. This is not a family show unless the kids are older.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

My kids demanded "rewind/play again" about 100 times for 


Spoiler



Because I am a frog, and I can JUMP!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I think this show is aimed more at us Gen Xers that grew up watching the Muppets, not really kids/families. Or at the very least the writers are doing the jokes that way. (maybe not what Disney intended) While it's not gratuitous, the jokes are much more adult then the recent two movies.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

I'm surprised how many people think this is inappropriate for kids. All of mine (1, 4, 9, 12) absolutely loved it and I had no problem with the content. Sure, plenty of stuff went over their heads. They didn't mind, and neither did I.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Robin said:


> I'm surprised how many people think this is inappropriate for kids. All of mine (1, 4, 9, 12) absolutely loved it and I had no problem with the content. Sure, plenty of stuff went over their heads. They didn't mind, and neither did I.


yeah, i think the show's appropriate for all ages, the reaction to the show in this thread is what's been puzzling.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Swedish Chef:


Spoiler



Somebody's cookin' da bacon?


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

What is that one muppet supposed to be with the horns? The one who dresses Piggy?


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

The whole "Code Red" scene in the 2nd show cracked me up.



Spoiler



Green means she's calm and happy. We've never been at green. Yellow means she's crying. Orange means I'm crying. Red means if she locks eyes with you, it's too late.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

bobcarn said:


> What is that one muppet supposed to be with the horns? The one who dresses Piggy?


IIRC, back in the The Muppet Show days, he was a "Phantom of the Opera" style character.


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

bobcarn said:


> The whole "Code Red" scene in the 2nd show cracked me up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Earlier this year I designed and 3D-printed a similar warning system for my wife that she can mount on her monitor: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:647781
Maybe Piggy needs one too.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

So, there's your answer about Rowlf.


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## jmenjes (Feb 2, 2003)

bobcarn said:


> What is that one muppet supposed to be with the horns? The one who dresses Piggy?


Uncle Deadly.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

IT guy is weird and creepy


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

I couldn't stop laughing every time he said something.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

aindik said:


> The usage derives from something dirty. Sometimes the full version of the phrase is still used, which includes the object of the verb "to suck." And I'm not talking about an egg. That's where the usage of the word comes from, and is why I don't want my kids to repeat it.
> 
> You could say this show is a piece of s*it. You don't mean it literally, but that word in that context is synonymous with being terrible, because of what it literally means.


My vacuum cleaner sucks too... my god, is every word dirty?


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

I got a lot of good laughs from the third show. So far I'm really liking it. I'm still giggling over the tranquilizer dart scene.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

MScottC said:


> My vacuum cleaner sucks too... my god, is every word dirty?


Context.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

The phrase "it sucks" is pretty generic now. Yeah it's a tad crude, but its connotation hasn't been sexual in a very long time.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Fozzie: Did you ever get shot with a tranquilizer dart Kermit?
Kermit: No, but I licked my third cousin once and the walls started melting, so I feel for you.

LOL!


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## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

bobcarn said:


> Fozzie: Did you ever get shot with a tranquilizer dart Kermit? Kermit: No, but I licked my third cousin once and the walls started melting, so I feel for you. LOL!


That was my favorite line of the episode.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

bobcarn said:


> The phrase "it sucks" is pretty generic now. Yeah it's a tad crude, but its connotation hasn't been sexual in a very long time.


I haven't seen any info that says the "it sucks" usage derives from any sort of sexual connotation. I'm not saying it didn't derive from it, but I didn't find any references to show it.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Here's an opinion piece about the word "sucks." It doesn't agree with me.

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/the_good_word/2006/08/suck_it_up.html


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I really like this show! I laughed more during the 3rd episode then I do during most of the other "top rated" comedies on TV. It's got a LOT of adult themed jokes though. There are even two separate scenes where they show the Muppets drinking alcohol.* So I'm not really sure it's intended for kids. 

* In one scene Fozzy and Kermit drink beer, and specifically refer to is as beer. In another Gonzo, Rizzo and Pepe are in a bar and drinking something out of cocktail style glasses.


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> IT guy is weird and creepy


The way his eyes blink freak me the hell out.


----------



## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

My family is really enjoying this show. Very funny stuff. Multiple laugh out loud moments.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Dan203 said:


> I really like this show! I laughed more during the 3rd episode then I do during most of the other "top rated" comedies on TV. It's got a LOT of adult themed jokes though. There are even two separate scenes where they show the Muppets drinking alcohol.* So I'm not really sure it's intended for kids.
> 
> * In one scene Fozzy and Kermit drink beer, and specifically refer to is as beer. In another Gonzo, Rizzo and Pepe are in a bar and drinking something out of cocktail style glasses.


I hope that every parent who writes off this show for their kids based on this also eliminates all shows with even a hint of cartoon violence.

My kids see adults drink alcohol on a regular basis. I don't care if they see adult Muppets doing so too.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I don't have kids so I'm not sure what I would or wouldn't let them watch. However I do know that my Sister lets my 11 year old niece watch The Walking Dead with me, so she obviously isn't the type care about some Muppets drinking a beer. However I do know a few other people who wont even allow their 12-14 year old kids watch a PG-13 movie, so everyone has their own limits. 

But for me, as a guy in my late 30s who watched The Muppet Show and all the Muppet movies as a kid, I'm loving it. It's way funnier then the last two movies which seemed a bit watered down to me. (although still enjoyable)


----------



## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> I really like this show! I laughed more during the 3rd episode then I do during most of the other "top rated" comedies on TV. It's got a LOT of adult themed jokes though. There are even two separate scenes where they show the Muppets drinking alcohol.* So I'm not really sure it's intended for kids.
> 
> * In one scene Fozzy and Kermit drink beer, and specifically refer to is as beer. In another Gonzo, Rizzo and Pepe are in a bar and drinking something out of cocktail style glasses.


+1 - Christina Applegate was great! Funny script, and yes, after seeing the Nathan Fillion "Piggy's Trailer" promo, this ain't your parents Muppets, and it's easily one of the best new shows this year, up there with 'Limitless'


----------



## Balzer (Nov 12, 2006)

bobcarn said:


> Fozzie: Did you ever get shot with a tranquilizer dart Kermit?
> Kermit: No, but I licked my third cousin once and the walls started melting, so I feel for you.
> 
> LOL!


Probably the best line of the season so far.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> IT guy is weird and creepy


Yes.

Oh. You meant the muppet character.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

aindik said:


> Here's an opinion piece about the word "sucks." It doesn't agree with me. http://www.slate.com/articles/life/the_good_word/2006/08/suck_it_up.html


I agree with the article that times change but having lived the rise of the word sucks, it came from fellatio. As in "man, that sucks dicks" or "did the movie blow." Yeah, coincidence.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Robin said:


> I hope that every parent who writes off this show for their kids based on this also eliminates all shows with even a hint of cartoon violence. My kids see adults drink alcohol on a regular basis. I don't care if they see adult Muppets doing so too.


People forget how adult the original muppet show was. They are furry characters and think "kids" but the muppets weren't aimed at kids. Sub groups of muppets were. Sesame Street. But the muppets were also the SNL guys.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

I agree. This show has the exact same vibe as The Muppet Show I watched over 35 years ago as a teen; it's just been nicely updated for 2015 pop culture and in HD. I still can't wait for Animal to go completely crazy. He sees to have mellowed out.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> I agree with the article that times change but having lived the rise of the word sucks, it came from fellatio. As in "man, that sucks dicks" or "did the movie blow." Yeah, coincidence.


Which I never understood because they use as a negative.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

series5orpremier said:


> I agree. This show has the exact same vibe as The Muppet Show I watched over 35 years ago as a teen;


Disclaimer: I *like* the new show, and think it's funny..

But can you list specific drug and sex jokes from the original Muppet Show?


----------



## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

mattack said:


> Disclaimer: I *like* the new show, and think it's funny..
> 
> But can you list specific drug and sex jokes from the original Muppet Show?


Not sure about jokes, but:
Whiskey drinking and cigarette smoking:





Raquel Welch had some interesting appearances - I'd definitely vote they are sexy:


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Ha. My kids would be horrified if there were smoking.

When they were little they called cigarettes "smokers". They didn't know anyone who smoked so cigarettes were just this evil litter occasionally cluttering the sidewalks.

One time we pulled into a parking lot and the driver of the truck next to us was smoking. One of them exclaimed in horror "look! A SMOKER!!!"

They were just shocked because to them it was like someone picked up a piece of trash off the ground and stuck it in their mouth. But we both had our windows open.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I wonder if the show today could have one of the Muppets die in the middle of the sketch, and have is ghost come out and sing.


----------



## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Don't forget about Miss Piggy trying to seduce James Bond (Roger Moore).


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

mattack said:


> But can you list specific drug and sex jokes from the original Muppet Show?


Animal literally chasing women around the theatre yelling, "Woman! Woman! Woman!"

Innocuous enough to a kid, but something that's a different perspective for an adult.

And Beaker being used as a Guinea pig for Dr. Bunsen's drug experiments.


----------



## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

I think this is a pretty interesting phenomenon we have folks here (and elsewhere obviously) who are surprised by the adult humor/content, because back when we were watching the old show, there wasn't any adult humor/content at all. Except we just don't remember all of the adult humor/content that was there.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Yeah, if you were a kid it went over your head. In some ways the new show is toned down to conform to current PC standards.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)




----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

series5orpremier said:


> He sees to have mellowed out.


Legally now


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

BrettStah said:


> Don't forget about Miss Piggy trying to seduce James Bond (Roger Moore).


Not to mention Rudolf Nureyev.

They did "Baby It's Cold Outside" set in a steam bath and wearing towels.
Miss Piggy sang what is normally considered the man's part, urging Nureyev to stay while Nureyev sang the other part about saying he should leave.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

This week's episode had some good laughs in it. I cracked up when the cockroach popped up wearing Statler's teeth. LOL. That was a good visual gag. And Miss Piggy had some good lines.

I find it to be one of the more funny comedy shows. They're doing a nice job of giving each of them unique identities and personalities.


----------



## HoosierFan (May 8, 2001)

I loved the Swedish Chef doing karaoke.


----------



## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Early on the Swedish chef could be seen in the background licking the donuts.


----------



## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

bobcarn said:


> This week's episode had some good laughs in it. I cracked up when the cockroach popped up wearing Statler's teeth. LOL.












--Carlos V.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Unbeliever said:


> --Carlos V.


My eyes were drawn to the teeth. I got the two mixed up, I was laughing too hard.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

HoosierFan said:


> I loved the Swedish Chef doing karaoke.


I had to show that part to my wife. Loved it too! 

Scott


----------



## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

Just when you thought this show couldn't get better: Miss Piggy vs. Reese Witherspoon feud!

The 'A' listers are on board - The Muppets is the best, new show this season


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

did my TiVo miss a new episode? I haven't seen one in a while.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> did my TiVo miss a new episode? I haven't seen one in a while.


There wasn't a new one on 10/20. Last one was 10/13. New episode tonight.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

My kids were devastated last week.

It's hilarious watching their introduction to network tv. I can't imagine what would happen if they had to watch a commercial.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

tvmaster2 said:


> Just when you thought this show couldn't get better: Miss Piggy vs. Reese Witherspoon feud!


As long as that involves Witherspoon getting drunk and being verbally abusive to Piggy, repeatedly asking her "Do you know my name?", I'll be happy.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Still loving this show!


Riki Lindhome made a return appearance, too!


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

I laugh out loud during the show. I thought Reese was wonderful, and I loved Piggy totally owning her!

Fozzy Bear had some great lines. Actually, there were a lot of good lines.

Reese: But Miss Piggy was so nice to me. She even sent a basket of muffins to my dressing room.
Kermit: Don't eat them. <to a helper> Get the muffins out of Reese Witherspoon's dressing room. And wear gloves.


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

So I've got these stacked up my TiVo. What's the consensus? Worth watching? Will my 11-year-olds like it?


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Oh, and Piggy's designer stiletto construction boots were hysterical!



gweempose said:


> So I've got these stacked up my TiVo. What's the consensus? Worth watching? Will my 11-year-olds like it?


I love it as one of my favorite new shows. I think a kid could get into it. I don't have kids though. Some others here say their kids like it. I think a lot of humor may be too subtle for kids, but there's also some slapstick and/or visual humor in it too, so it's pretty funny all around.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

gweempose said:


> So I've got these stacked up my TiVo. What's the consensus? Worth watching? Will my 11-year-olds like it?


Delete all episodes immediately and reboot your TiVo to purge it of all evil. Then never think nor speak of this show again.

Just kidding. It's fun. And if your kids don't like it blow them off and watch it for yourself, but they'll probably like it.


----------



## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

bobcarn said:


> Oh, and Piggy's designer stiletto construction boots were hysterical!


That's not the first place I've seen boots that look like that.

(I'll assume you haven't seen as much porn intended for heterosexual males as I have. This was the first time I'd seen them on a pig, though.  )


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

trainman said:


> That's not the first place I've seen boots that look like that. (I'll assume you haven't seen as much porn intended for heterosexual males as I have. This was the first time I'd seen them on a pig, though.  )


You might want to rethink that last sentence. Or reword it to make sure we know you mean an animal in the genus sus.


----------



## nirisahn (Nov 19, 2005)

As much as there's a lot of good stuff in the shows, there seems to be a thread of mean spiritedness running through it. And I know Miss Piggy was always a diva, but she's truly a terror now. Not sure I like this new version. Haven't decided yet if the good outweighs the bad.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Mean-spirited like the countless karate chops, kicks, and punches Miss Piggy inflicted on others in the 1970s? I don't remember Miss Piggy actually physically assaulting anyone in this new show, but if the stiletto pump fits.....


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

gweempose said:


> So I've got these stacked up my TiVo. What's the consensus? Worth watching? Will my 11-year-olds like it?


My kids (12, 9, 3, 1) are all completely obsessed. It's literally the highlight of their week. And not just the weeks I make popcorn.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

nirisahn said:


> As much as there's a lot of good stuff in the shows, there seems to be a thread of mean spiritedness running through it. And I know Miss Piggy was always a diva, but she's truly a terror now. Not sure I like this new version. Haven't decided yet if the good outweighs the bad.


Odd. I think she is less mean than she used to be.


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

series5orpremier said:


> Mean-spirited like the countless karate chops, kicks, and punches Miss Piggy inflicted on others in the 1970s? I don't remember Miss Piggy actually physically assaulting anyone in this new show, but if the stiletto pump fits.....


This.

I keep seeing critiques that seem to be based on a completely amnesiatic view of the original show.

Either people are looking back through rose-colored glasses, or they're accidentally remembering Sesame Street instead.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Bill Prady tweeted that it was picked up for a full season.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

mattack said:


> Bill Prady tweeted that it was picked up for a full season.


Nice!!

I hope they can continue to get more good celebs to appear.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Good news!

It amused me that my kids are getting their first introductory to these celebs on The Muppets so now whenever they see them elsewhere it'll be "there's that actor from The Muppets!"


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

I found another link to the 11 minute pitch presentation video shown at Comic Con that isn't broken. It has cameos from Topher Grace and Elizabeth Banks; and the different actress playing the role of Fozzie's girlfriend Becky. A running joke is the (pre)-IT Guy trying to figure out if he's ever been in a Muppets production before and what his identity is.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=664612390336359


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

series5orpremier said:


> I found another link to the 11 minute pitch presentation video shown at Comic Con that isn't broken. It has cameos from Topher Grace and Elizabeth Banks; and the different actress playing the role of Fozzie's girlfriend Becky. A running joke is the (pre)-IT Guy trying to figure out if he's ever been in a Muppets production before and what his identity is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's really good. I see they used a lot of it in their first episode.


----------



## FireMen2003 (Apr 1, 2004)

I was dying at "Am I the only one who felt that Earthquake?"

Aftershock!

The whole car accident and getting it repaired was hilarious too.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

FireMen2003 said:


> I was dying at "Am I the only one who felt that Earthquake?"
> 
> Aftershock!


LOL! :up:


----------



## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

jsmeeker said:


> Nice!!
> 
> I hope they can continue to get more good celebs to appear.


if Alice Cooper did it, anything' possible


----------



## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

gweempose said:


> So I've got these stacked up my TiVo. What's the consensus? Worth watching? Will my 11-year-olds like it?


I am not a huge Muppets fan, and I am finding it to be one of the better new shows on TV. The kids will enjoy it, but the jokes are definitely there for the adults. It is laugh out loud funny at times.


----------



## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

I noticed that they silently dropped Kermit's replacement girlfriend after the first episode.

--Carlos V.


----------



## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Unbeliever said:


> I noticed that they silently dropped Kermit's replacement girlfriend after the first episode.
> 
> --Carlos V.


Did you happen to catch a preview of this week's episode?


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

As far as the old shows, I've been watching some and even back then there was mention of others being terrified of piggy's reaction, fear of broken bones etc.

This is nothing new.


----------



## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

Unbeliever said:


> I noticed that they silently dropped Kermit's replacement girlfriend after the first episode.
> 
> --Carlos V.


Bad timing on this complaint. haha.

I went from being very skeptical about this one to finding myself looking forward to what happens next. They have won me over. The format is perfect for bringing in famous guests as well. Very funny. Hope this one gets renewed. I know they just ordered a few more episodes, so we'll see...


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

This is the thing I watch when I get home on Tuesday night. My favorite new show of the season. :up:


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Finally caught up on all the episodes thus far last night. What a fun show! 

The storyline with Chenowitz and the band was great. Funyuns!  

And Kermit asking Piggy to help pick out a gift for his girlfriend has such a bad idea written all over it. And surprisingly Piggy picked out a good gift, with a total surprise gotcha that only he knows about.


----------



## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

nickels said:


> Bad timing on this complaint. haha.


I had meant to post it the week before, but forgot 

--Carlos V.


----------



## kdelande (Dec 17, 2001)

Ut oh...

The Muppets Shake-Up: ABC Comedy Getting New Showrunner, New Focus
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/s/muppets-shake-abc-comedy-getting-185640500.html


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Focus? The Muppets?


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Of course, we can't judge the quality yet, but a new show runner means it has a chance for renewal. No need to replace the show runner if you're just canceling the show anyway.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

This part scares me...



> What's more, the second half of the comedy's freshman season - specifically, the six episodes airing after the show's midseason hiatus - will reportedly look very different from its first.


The first episodes have been great. I hope they don't screw it up in the second half.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Dan203 said:


> This part scares me...
> 
> The first episodes have been great. I hope they don't screw it up in the second half.


yeah... I like the way the show is now.


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

You'd think it was Fox that was running it....


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Preemptive BiH, ABC.


----------



## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> This part scares me...
> 
> The first episodes have been great. I hope they don't screw it up in the second half.


Oh no, retooling. That can't be good mid-season. And the use of the word "re-boot"... when has anything "rebooted" ever been better? Things just took a bad turn, let's hope they don't mess this up.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

i'll try and keep a positive outlook and withhold judgement until we see any changes, but i'm not overly optimistic about the announcement, either. if they can improve the ratings without losing what's great now, it'll be win/win.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

nickels said:


> Oh no, retooling. That can't be good mid-season. And the use of the word "re-boot"... when has anything "rebooted" ever been better? Things just took a bad turn, let's hope they don't mess this up.


Seinfeld


----------



## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> This part scares me...
> 
> The first episodes have been great. I hope they don't screw it up in the second half.


+1 - it's been one of the best, new shows this year, hands down. If they're expecting Disney matinee numbers, it's not that kind of show. I have a bad feeling about this....


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

The plot in the original pitch video to ABC was that The Muppets are about to start a new prime time show where we'll also get to see The Muppets personal lives at home. At the last minute it was changed to a Late Night Show setting. I think that's what the guy who was just ousted advocated. I presume they'll go back to whatever the original idea was. I hope they harden the same characters up to be politically incorrect like they were in the 70s. They've already softened them up too much and it would be an unequivocal failure if they try to turn this into a baby smurfs show.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

jsmeeker said:


> Seinfeld


The first three episodes were fine, actually better than 85% of the episodes after season 4. The 'reboot' was just that they added Elaine.


----------



## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

Seinfeld didn't get rebooted, it was sort of retooled early on but it isn't like the whole context of the show changed. When I think of "rebooted" I think of something like Mike and Molly, where in season 4 they basically changed her into a different character. Not sure that reboot did anything for the show? I just hope they don't fix what wasn't broken here. We'll see soon enough. 10 episodes the way it is now (5 left?), a long break, then 6 episodes in the new direction. Time will tell!


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Does Janice have a soft palate piercing, or just a wildly dangly uvula?


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

nickels said:


> ... It is laugh out loud funny at times.


I find myself laughing out loud a lot during the show.

The last one cracked me up when Kermit's new girlfriend was gushing over the guest star and making a fool of herself, and Piggy whispers to Kermit "nice upgrade!"

And the jewelry box Piggy picked out as Kermit's gift? LOL!

The show is so funny! It's one of my favorite comedies now.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> yeah... I like the way the show is now.


Me too. I don't see where the show needs any changes at all. It's already better than most other shows.


----------



## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

yet another solid episode tonight. how is it a green sock puppet can convey more emotion and depth than any character on 'Two Broke Girls'?


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

tvmaster2 said:


> yet another solid episode tonight. how is it a green sock puppet can convey more emotion and depth than any character on 'Two Broke Girls'?


Huh?


----------



## leeherman (Nov 5, 2007)

I'm enjoying the new show as it is, but I also remember and enjoyed the original Muppet Show.

My wife had never seen the original show, so last night we watched the first episode which she enjoyed. The entertainment might have aged in 40 years but it's just as enjoyable as when it first aired.

I hope the network doesn't mess up the current incarnation of the show.

LH


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Beaker sends a message to the haters:


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Beaker sends a message to the haters:


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Mememememememememememe.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

tvmaster2 said:


> yet another solid episode tonight. how is it a green sock puppet can convey more emotion and depth than any character on 'Two Broke Girls'?


LOL. After the premier of Two Broke Girls, my friend told me it was a really funny show and I just had to see it. I watched it the next week and came back to him and said I felt insulted. I was insulted that the network felt I'd be entertained by a checklist of clichés.

Seriously, I actually felt insulted. The Muppets have *always* been deeper than any character on TBG.


----------



## stlarenas (Sep 17, 2005)

This week's episode was my favorite yet. I absolutely loved it. I felt each character was great, and Jason Bateman, and Pentatonix.... Then Kermit with a banjo. Fabulous... Really felt like Jim Hensons Muppets this week.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Kermit sings "Rainbow Connection"


YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> Kermit sings "Rainbow Connection"


"Learn a new song!"

--Carlos V.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Unbeliever said:


> "Learn a new song!"
> 
> --Carlos V.




I was worried he was gonna stop and not continue.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

bobcarn said:


> LOL. After the premier of Two Broke Girls, my friend told me it was a really funny show and I just had to see it. I watched it the next week and came back to him and said I felt insulted. I was insulted that the network felt I'd be entertained by a checklist of clichés.
> 
> Seriously, I actually felt insulted. The Muppets have *always* been deeper than any character on TBG.


I kind of liked the first season of TBG. I struggled through season 2. Then I watched a couple episodes of season 3 and deleted the SP. I couldn't take it any more. It was the same shtick over and over. Pretty much the same thing happened with Mike & Molly.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Most of the time TBG is stupidly not funny. I know I would have abandoned it long ago if not for Beth Behrs' wardrobe.


----------



## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

forget Beth, The Muppets have their third, guest-hottie of the season tonight, and she's got eyes for.....
Needless to say, it's saucy

And Pepe & Rizzo make me laugh, a lot, always.


----------



## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

This show keeps getting better... so I am even more worried what will happen when these "original" ten come to an end.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Me too. I really hope they don't screw it up.


----------



## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> Me too. I really hope they don't screw it up.


and as last night with Chelsea, they need to leave all the 'screwing' innuendos alone...finally, a kids show for adults


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

I noticed that last night and realized that may be why I have no problem with my kids watching this show when though other parents are objecting.

I'm much much more bothered by them seeing violence than references to sex. It seems like a lot of people are reversed on that.


----------



## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

Robin said:


> I noticed that last night and realized that may be why I have no problem with my kids watching this show when though other parents are objecting.
> 
> I'm much much more bothered by them seeing violence than references to sex. It seems like a lot of people are reversed on that.


+1 completely


----------



## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

My kids are catching up on the show - they seem to like it. I find it amusing that the wife and I often laugh at different times from the kids. Nothing like cracking up at a drug reference and hoping the kids don't ask why that part was so funny.


----------



## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Enjoying how in this last episode, when the Swedish Chef is singing Christmas songs, he's dressed as if he's celebrating Santa Lucia (Swedish tradition involving wearing a wreath of candles)


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Loved how they solved the Mindy Kaling singing problem.


----------



## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

jsmeeker said:


> Loved how they solved the Mindy Kaling singing problem.


loved that they had Mindy. This show is still great!


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

tvmaster2 said:


> loved that they had Mindy. This show is still great!


The show really can draw some good guest stars. Really, I hope they keep it up. I'm just loving this show.


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Loving the show here as well. Disappointed we have to wait awhile for more episodes! 

The IT guy is so appropriately odd and creepy! The conversation with him and Sam the Eagle had me LOL with him saying how he likes Pringles but just licks the flavoring off and throws the chip away. No calories!


----------



## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Swedish Chef was licking the donuts again.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

pdhenry said:


> Swedish Chef was licking the donuts again.


He's getting diet tips from the IT guy.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

DancnDude said:


> The IT guy is so appropriately odd and creepy! The conversation with him and Sam the Eagle had me LOL with him saying how he likes Pringles but just licks the flavoring off and throws the chip away. No calories!


Life hack!


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

And it's back


Are the changes supposed to be in place now?? 'Cuz I watched the new episode and don't see major differences.


----------



## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

I thought that the story arc of bringing in "Pizza" is how they redirect the show going forward.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

what changes?


----------



## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

mattack said:


> what changes?


See posts 238 to 251.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

pdhenry said:


> I thought that the story arc of bringing in "Pizza" is how they redirect the show going forward.


But the show we see didn't seem to change

Pizza is here to change stuff with the Miss Piggy Show. But 'The Muppets' didn't seem to change

I was expecting major changes. Not that I am complaining, because I was liking what I had seen and don't think it needs major changes. But I am stillf confused. It feels like I am missing something.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

I think the changes in this episode were more minor, but they were there. The examples of stuff I think we'll see more of include:
- the sketch on the show-within-a-show
- the Miss Piggy/Kermit song
- everyone in the room doing the Muppet Show theme

I also noticed several Muppets in the writers room from the classic run that we've not seen on this show before, and I think we'll see more of them as well.


----------



## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

jsmeeker said:


> But the show we see didn't seem to change
> 
> Pizza is here to change stuff with the Miss Piggy Show. But 'The Muppets' didn't seem to change
> 
> I was expecting major changes. Not that I am complaining, because I was liking what I had seen and don't think it needs major changes. But I am stillf confused. It feels like I am missing something.


I'm assuming Pizza will be a recurring character. Tweaking Piggy's show is how they tweak The Muppet Show while maintaining continuity. Maybe it will take a few weeks. Just conjecture.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> I think the changes in this episode were more minor, but they were there. The examples of stuff I think we'll see more of include:
> - the sketch on the show-within-a-show
> - the Miss Piggy/Kermit song
> - everyone in the room doing the Muppet Show theme
> ...


I noticed all of that too. Espeically them humming the original theme. I realyl thought we would hear it for real, full on by the band. But we didn't

Who did we see we had not seen before?

still, this still doesn't seem like the major changes they promised/threatened.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

I thought the shift in tone made it less cynical. Kermit's even happier in the opening thanks to Miss Piggy giving him his coffee. 

It does look like Denise is on her way out.

Edit: I'm not sure if it's the first time that we saw him, but I think this was the first time that Lew Zealand had a line.


----------



## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

jsmeeker said:


> I noticed all of that too. Espeically them humming the original theme. I realyl thought we would hear it for real, full on by the band. But we didn't
> 
> Who did we see we had not seen before?
> 
> still, this still doesn't seem like the major changes they promised/threatened.


It's a journey, not a destination.


----------



## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> I think the changes in this episode were more minor, but they were there. The examples of stuff I think we'll see more of include:
> - the sketch on the show-within-a-show
> - the Miss Piggy/Kermit song
> - everyone in the room doing the Muppet Show theme
> ...


I was under the impression that the changes were along of the lines of less "the guest stars get involved with the plot in some way" and more "have The Muppets perform more, like they did on _The Muppet Show_." Wasn't that the point of the whole "the show needs to be less 'talky' and more (points to everybody singing) _this_" scene?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I think one of the primary changes will be that Kermit and Denise break up and there's no longer much emphasis on the love lives of the Muppets. I think that turned a lot of people off.


----------



## JasonLP (Jul 3, 2003)

I did like the changes they are going with, seeing the Muppets perform more. We probably won't see sketches like "Pigs In Space" or the ballroom dancing anytime soon, but I'll take what we can get given the format.

Speaking of rarely seen Muppets, it would be cool to see Walter or Clifford from time to time.


----------



## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

The whole episode was about the changes that are about to take place on the show inside the show. It was brilliant how they worked it into the plot. I even said to the wife that they didn't change it much. It seems like it is going to slowly be more about the whole cast being involved, a throwback feel with more singing, and Kermit goes back with Miss Piggy like the old days.


----------



## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

JasonLP said:


> I did like the changes they are going with, seeing the Muppets perform more. We probably won't see sketches like "Pigs In Space" or the ballroom dancing anytime soon, but I'll take what we can get given the format.
> 
> Speaking of rarely seen Muppets, it would be cool to see Walter or Clifford from time to time.


I loved "Pigs in Space"

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

pdhenry said:


> Maybe it will take a few weeks. Just conjecture.


Then they'd better hurry - aren't there just five episodes left? It appears to me this "revamping" was just some internal political blame game to make excuses for less than desired ratings. They're trying to address the real life drama about content in the show itself (which IMO was a pretext to begin with) without really changing anything. I think that's a turnoff and judging from the ratings is sending the show further into a death spiral.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

I do find it interesting that the first episode back after a network-imposed hiatus and supposed revamp... was a plot about a clueless network executive who blundered in and started meddling about with a show that was working just fine, and in the end they realized the people at the show knew what they were doing all along.


----------



## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

nickels said:


> The whole episode was about the changes that are about to take place on the show inside the show. It was brilliant how they worked it into the plot. I even said to the wife that they didn't change it much. It seems like it is going to slowly be more about the whole cast being involved, a throwback feel with more singing, and Kermit goes back with Miss Piggy like the old days.


It was a very "meta" episode...and brilliant for it!


----------



## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

The climax starring a rock and roll hall of fame rocker is another, Muppets victory.
Still loving this show!


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Yep, again addressing all the talk about changes by basically saying eff you, we'll do it the way we like, which I like because I don't like them having to appease outsiders telling them what to do. With this episode they said what they can't do with one character they'll do with another if they have to.

Sam: "The One Million Angry Parents Association are outside protesting right now!"

Kermit: "A million? I only see three of 'em, Sam."

Sam: "They like to round up."


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

At least in the Eastern and Central time zones, this week's episode got cut off on your DVR unless you pad by more than 5 minutes. I guess they ran 5 minutes of news coverage (New Hampshire Primary) at the top of prime time, which shifted the entire schedule by five minutes.


----------



## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

aindik said:


> At least in the Eastern and Central time zones, this week's episode got cut off on your DVR unless you pad by more than 5 minutes. I guess they ran 5 minutes of news coverage (New Hampshire Primary) at the top of prime time, which shifted the entire schedule by five minutes.


I didn't get around to watching it last night and I'm in one of the affected time zones. Thanks for the heads up....I'll watch it online instead of watching my TiVo'd version.


----------



## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

aindik said:


> At least in the Eastern and Central time zones, this week's episode got cut off on your DVR unless you pad by more than 5 minutes. I guess they ran 5 minutes of news coverage (New Hampshire Primary) at the top of prime time, which shifted the entire schedule by five minutes.


yeah, you don't want to miss the last five minutes - that's the payoff part of the show!
If TV networks didn't keep shooting themselves in the foot someone else would have to...


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

tvmaster2 said:


> yeah, you don't want to miss the last five minutes - that's the payoff part of the show!
> If TV networks didn't keep shooting themselves in the foot someone else would have to...


It's not like they didn't know the New Hampshire primary was coming. Just schedule 5 minutes of news at 8/7C in the guide data.

Maybe they were thinking they didn't know if they would break in at 8, or 8:30, or 9. They were going to wait until the races were called? I don't know. But get the guide data right, or at least try.

For Iowa, CBS put 2 minutes of news coverage right in the guide data from 8 to 8:02. That's how you do it.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

aindik said:


> It's not like they didn't know the New Hampshire primary was coming. Just schedule 5 minutes of news at 8/7C in the guide data.
> 
> Maybe they were thinking they didn't know if they would break in at 8, or 8:30, or 9. They were going to wait until the races were called? I don't know. But get the guide data right, or at least try.
> 
> For Iowa, CBS put 2 minutes of news coverage right in the guide data from 8 to 8:02. That's how you do it.


Meh, ABC was all proud that Fresh off the Boat would be shown in its entirety and then did a 5 minute news "brief."


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> Meh, ABC was all proud that Fresh off the Boat would be shown in its entirety and then did a 5 minute news "brief."


Show it in its entirety. Just schedule it in the guide from 8:05 to 8:35.

This wasn't an earthquake. It was a scheduled thing.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

They don't care if they screw up people who are skipping their commercials.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

So how do I see the last 5 minutes?


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

aindik said:


> Show it in its entirety. Just schedule it in the guide from 8:05 to 8:35. This wasn't an earthquake. It was a scheduled thing.


I agree but the networks don't care about timing.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> So how do I see the last 5 minutes?


My Agent Carter recording had it (and luckily I caught this going on and was able to extend that recording).

Scott


----------



## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

jsmeeker said:


> So how do I see the last 5 minutes?


I caught it on the Watch ABC app.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I don't TiVo Agent Carter and I don't have a Watch ABC app.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> I don't TiVo Agent Carter and I don't have a Watch ABC app.


ABC.com on a computer should have it.

The app is available for iOS and AppleTV, and, I assume, other platforms. The app itself is free. I'm not sure what kind of authentication you'll need to watch the Muppets.


----------



## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

I was just surprised to hear a waterboarding joke on the Muppets...


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

aindik said:


> ABC.com on a computer should have it. The app is available for iOS and AppleTV, and, I assume, other platforms. The app itself is free. I'm not sure what kind of authentication you'll need to watch the Muppets.


Just checked. Cable/satellite provider.

Looks like none after a week or next episode airs.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

nickels said:


> when has anything "rebooted" ever been better?


I don't know if it was an official reboot, but.. "The Big Bang Theory". (The addition of Bernadette & Amy Farrah Fowler.)


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

series5orpremier said:


> I hope they harden the same characters up to be politically incorrect like they were in the 70s. They've already softened them up too much and it would be an unequivocal failure if they try to turn this into a baby smurfs show.


?!?!?! They make drug & sex references...


----------



## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

nickels said:


> when has anything "rebooted" ever been better?


Top Gear (to the Hammond/May/Clarkson format)

"Newhart"

"Doctor Who" (Edcucational to Sci-Fi)

"JAG" (During the network switch)

"Naked Truth" retooled every season.

ST:TNG (after the 1st season)

--Carlos V.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Unbeliever said:


> "Doctor Who" (Edcucational to Sci-Fi)


Given that the second series of episodes were "The Daleks," I'd disagree there was ever a "reboot" there. It was always planned to be a Sci-Fi show. It was just that Sydney Newman never intended there to be robots or BEM (Bug Eyed Monsters), but caved to Verity after the audience response to "The Daleks."

That said, the new Doctor Who, beginning with the Chris Eccleston episodes, would clearly be a reboot - and THAT would be a good example.



> ST:TNG (after the 1st season)


Also never a "reboot."


----------



## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Unbeliever said:


> Top Gear (to the Hammond/May/Clarkson format)
> 
> "Newhart"
> 
> ...


As you point out, "retool" is definitely a better term for this.

I think Doctor Who is a pretty good example of this, essentially since they formulated things in a way that they could embrace it with the periodic regeneration not only of actors, but personalities.

Others I can think of that pretty successfully retooled include:

Buffy (the college and adult re-toolings worked pretty well to address stagnation issues)

Friends (a bit of a minor retool, but Season 1 has a very different feel and pretty substantial character differences)

Most of post-TOS Trek had some minor retooling. TNG was more of a "lets just go with what was working" by promoting Worf and Geordi. DS9 had some minor retooling with the Dominion coming on, and that mostly worked. VOY and ENT? Those were disastrous retools.

Mostly, however, retooling seems to be a desperate attempt to keep a failed show going (War of the Worlds being one of the most bizarre I can recall)

Here, however, it seems a bit of a subtle shift back toward the classic Muppet Show


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I liked the new episodes. It wasn't really that drastic of a change. They seem to be having even more fun now.

I loved the pig tail episode and how shocked people were that Miss Piggy's tail popped out, and even that she ended up snorting a few times  

And yay Gonzo...your girlfriend's back!


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

It is really hardly any change at all. I think the first episode back was a gentle poke at the internet rumors of change.


----------



## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

kaszeta said:


> As you point out, "retool" is definitely a better term for this.


That was nickels morphing retool into reboot by the time he got to the sentence I quoted.

--Carlos V.


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> I do find it interesting that the first episode back after a network-imposed hiatus and supposed revamp... was a plot about a clueless network executive who blundered in and started meddling about with a show that was working just fine, and in the end they realized the people at the show knew what they were doing all along.


I know. Subtle. 

I'm surprised they didn't find some way to have an actual anvil get dropped from somewhere.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

No one complaining about the product placement in the last episode?

Usually, someone complains.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

What product placement? The only thing I remember standing out is them going to the Zootopia movie premiere, which is also Disney produced and being release soon.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

That's not product placement?
(Even if it is intra-corporate)


----------



## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

In the world in which "The Muppets" takes place, in which everyone seems to accept the fact that a talking pig hosts a late-night talk show that's produced by a talking frog...

...would "Zootopia" even have been made?


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

trainman said:


> In the world in which "The Muppets" takes place, in which everyone seems to accept the fact that a talking pig hosts a late-night talk show that's produced by a talking frog... ...would "Zootopia" even have been made?


It is a documentary.


----------



## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

trainman said:


> In the world in which "The Muppets" takes place, in which everyone seems to accept the fact that a talking pig hosts a late-night talk show that's produced by a talking frog...
> 
> ...would "Zootopia" even have been made?


Why not?
I live in a world where I accept humans hosting and producing late-night talk shows, and I watch movies that feature talking humans. Sometimes, the studios even make animated films featuring talking humans.


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I like the penguin! And the fact that Deadly is bringing it around all over like his kid. And it was sitting in the ice bucket


----------



## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

'Got Silk' was good, but my least fav episode so far. Good idea to burry it in February...


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

morac said:


> What product placement? The only thing I remember standing out is them going to the Zootopia movie premiere, which is also Disney produced and being release soon.


I didn't see this part at all. Did I see a different episode? In the one I watched "pizza" took the writers to buy suits and piggy went to some acrobat class where they hang from ribbons on the ceiling. There was nothing about Zootopia that I saw.


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Dan203 said:


> I didn't see this part at all. Did I see a different episode? In the one I watched "pizza" took the writers to buy suits and piggy went to some acrobat class where they hang from ribbons on the ceiling. There was nothing about Zootopia that I saw.


I think it was when Piggy went to the Zootopia premiere and had her wardrobe malfunction. That was just the very beginning of the episode.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

DancnDude said:


> I think it was when Piggy went to the Zootopia premiere and had her wardrobe malfunction. That was just the very beginning of the episode.


That was the previous episode

I guess this is the one "danger" of a single season thread. Can be confusing as to what episode a person is discussing, especially when it's not the most recent one.


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> That was the previous episode
> 
> I guess this is the one "danger" of a single season thread. Can be confusing as to what episode a person is discussing, especially when it's not the most recent one.


Yes I know, I was explaining what episode the "product placement" was (even if it wasn't much of a product placement IMO). I didn't see any product placement in the most recent episode "Silk".


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

DancnDude said:


> Yes I know, I was explaining what episode the "product placement" was (even if it wasn't much of a product placement IMO). I didn't see any product placement in the most recent episode "Silk".


There wasn't. But a main plot line in "Silk" was about product placement. "Pizza" wanted the writers to create a sketch to promote frozen yogurt, (i.e. product placement within The Miss Piggy Show.) It didn't actually happened because they figured a way to get out of it.

It can get confusing. One episode not about product placement had a "prdouct placement" for the viewers of The Muppets. The following week, the episode had a plot line about product placement in 'This Miss Piggy Show', but no product placement appeared in either The Miss Piggy Show or for the viewers of The Muppets.


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Ahh I gotcha. Either way, I thought it was an ok plot and didn't feel like they were really promoting a product to us, the viewers, so much as it just being a plot line in the show.


----------



## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> There wasn't.


There was. The product was Pinkberry yogurt.



Pizza said:


> So, what I had in mind is we do a little sketch where somebody talks about delicious, gluten-free frozen yogurt made with live and active cultures from Pinkberry.


And later:



Kermit and his writers said:


> ...we also came up with a great sketch idea.
> 
> Yeah, it's about delicious, gluten-free frozen yogurt made with live and active cultures from Pinkberry!
> 
> ...


--Carlos V.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Then there was the bit at the end when Pizza says he's going to bill the writers for the suits because he originally bought them as payment for them incorporating the Pinkberry sketch and since he now won't be able to collect from Pinkberry, he has to get them to pay for the suits.

I thought it was pretty ingenious how Kermit outsmarted him by using the suits in a sketch and then the show's wardrobe budget could cover the cost.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Pinkberry is a real place though right? So really there was product placement. They said that at least a dozen times.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> Pinkberry is a real place though right? So really there was product placement. They said that at least a dozen times.


Yes, it's a real place and yes, it was product placement. Just semi-cleverly disguised in a meta way.


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Kinda like how _Community_ did their Subway product placement.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Dan203 said:


> Pinkberry is a real place though right? So really there was product placement. They said that at least a dozen times.





DevdogAZ said:


> Yes, it's a real place and yes, it was product placement. Just semi-cleverly disguised in a meta way.


doh

I forgot they mentioend a real actual place. There were so many conditions (low fat, glueten free, live active cultures, etc.) that I forgot the Pinkberry part.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

I expect this to be one of many shows in a mass house cleaning at ABC after this season. I enjoy it, but the ratings (even after the supposed "revamp") are poor, and the network president (Paul Lee) was just shown the door due to the poor performance of the network.

(Other shows widely considered to be at risk include Galavant [duh], Castle, and Agent Carter.)


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

ABC's new president comes from the drama side of the network, so they'll give The Muppets to Shonda Rhimes to reboot into a prime-time soap.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

it was fun while it lasted.


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

This last episode with Kermit's nephew was awesome. I legit had at least five literal laugh-out-loud moments.


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I liked how the dog chased the ball into Sweetums's mouth, then he barfed him up later


----------



## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

DancnDude said:


> I liked how the dog chased the ball into Sweetums's mouth, then he barfed him up later


That was the other monster, not Sweetums

But I loved the line "He got the ball, he's happy"


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

kaszeta said:


> That was the other monster, not Sweetums
> 
> But I loved the line "He got the ball, he's happy"


" Hey Lara, do you like wet dogs?"


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Sweetums is the one who looks like Hagrid.


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Oh yeah, what is that thing's name?


----------



## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

DancnDude said:


> Oh yeah, what is that thing's name?


Big Mean Carl


----------



## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

busyba said:


> This last episode with Kermit's nephew was awesome. I legit had at least five literal laugh-out-loud moments.


and some jokes are so subtle in their biting delivery. Pepe choosing eggs from the 'possible offspring' basket...thought I was gonna choke from laughing....


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I liked it how Kermit says he can go out to get BBQ without feeling some guilt


LMFAO


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

I lost it when Robin was eating the wax.

The egg bit you could see coming from a mile away, but it was still hilarious.


----------



## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

jsmeeker said:


> I liked it how Kermit says he can go out to get BBQ without feeling some guilt
> 
> LMFAO


Yup, funny stuff


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I didn't like the show at first. It grew on me toward the middle and now I'm bored with it again. Just the same old stuff week after week. Yeah, I get that a lot of sitcoms are the same, but there's just something about this show that I'm just not finding appealing. I watch mostly because my daughter likes it, but if it gets cancelled, I won't really miss it.


----------



## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

Boy, they really pulled out the nostalgia references in the 2nd to last episode (1st half hour).

--Carlos "mahna mahna" V.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

So, Piggy and Kermie fly off together. How sweet.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Is that the end? Of the season, of the series, or just a hiatus?


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Officially the end of the season, but probably the end of the series as it likely won't be renewed. It's a shame they went out on a cliffhanger that will probably never get unhung.


----------



## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

series5orpremier said:


> Officially the end of the season, but probably the end of the series as it likely won't be renewed. It's a shame they went out on a cliffhanger that will probably never get unhung.


...until the _next_ Muppets TV series/movie/video game/whatever.


----------



## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

Jack White was great, though I was surprised that no one slipped in any chance for him to comment on how difficult it can be to work with someone you're in a relationship with.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

series5orpremier said:


> Officially the end of the season, but probably the end of the series as it likely won't be renewed. It's a shame they went out on a cliffhanger that will probably never get unhung.


Everything I've read suggests the opposite. Even though the show didn't get great ratings Disney wants to keep it on the air because it's one of their major franchises. Just like they did with Agents of Shield, and that turned around for them.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

That's a possibility. The history of the Muppets and the network owning it are a couple of those intangible things that can overcome bad ratings. If it survives I'll bet they move it to Friday where they don't care about ratings as much. Maybe they can switch it out with Ken Jeongs show and pair that with FOTB.


----------



## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

Retooling idea for Season 2 to get them even closer to the old "Muppet Show" dynamic:

"Up Late with Miss Piggy" gets canceled, but the show's staff has non-compete contracts that say they can't work in TV for a year...

...so they do a weekly live variety show instead.

(The precedent is Conan O'Brien's "Legally Prohibited from Being Funny on Television" tour that he did after being removed as "Tonight Show" host.)


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

trainman said:


> (The precedent is Conan O'Brien's "Legally Prohibited from Being Funny on Television" tour that he did after being removed as "Tonight Show" host.)


Something he still practices on TV to this day.  (not a Conan fan).


----------



## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

did I just read somewhere that 'The Muppets' AND 'Agent Carter' had been killed? A sad day indeed if true...


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Possibly. I saw an article that mentioned both of these shows potentially being on the chopping block due to poor ratings. I thought season 2 of Agent Carter was much better than the first and I really enjoyed the Muppets.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

tvmaster2 said:


> did I just read somewhere that 'The Muppets' AND 'Agent Carter' had been killed? A sad day indeed if true...


They haven't been canceled yet. They weren't a part of the mass renewal of ABC series that occurred at the beginning of March, but there are other series that are likewise pending a decision (like "Castle" and "Nashville," for examples.)

Most expect them to be canceled. Despite "The Muppets" being a Disney property, ratings for the show haven't been that great. As for "Agent Carter," the ratings were very poor, and Haley Atwell has already been cast in another show.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

LoadStar said:


> Most expect them to be canceled. Despite "The Muppets" being a Disney property, ratings for the show haven't been that great.


I see a lot of opinions that go the other way. i.e. they expect it to be renewed in spite of the poor ratings because it's a Disney property. I'm hoping those guys are right.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> I see a lot of opinions that go the other way. i.e. they expect it to be renewed in spite of the poor ratings because it's a Disney property. I'm hoping those guys are right.


The only way that I can see that happening is if Muppets becomes a filler show like Galavant was, but I think that those shows may go away now that someone new is in charge.


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## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

*CANCELLED - GOODBYE MUPPETS* 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/muppets-canceled-at-abc-893511


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

That's a shame. It was a good show even after they retooled it a bit (which apparently got even worse ratings).


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Lots of shows lose momentum after the winter break. So many that I wonder why they do it. Sure, Christmas week but a couple of months?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I'll miss it.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I will too. But at least it's the muppets. They will survive in other forms.


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