# Lost 3/30/10 "The Package"



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Well, they're certainly moving now!

I suspect Widmore is telling the truth about the consequences of letting unLocke off the island...


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I agree that Widmore is "good" but only if you believe that the end justifies the means.


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

Interesting that Widmore seems to need Desmond to implement his plan....


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Many things I really liked in this episode. 

Sun and Jin not married when they travelled and were on the plane. 

Patch guy Mikhail from season 3 now as a translator.

Sun not speaking english and good call for Jack to see if she could write it. 

The look on Jin's face as he sees his daughter. That was great.

I have to rewatch it but man, this is getting fun!!!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> I agree that Widmore is "good" but only if you believe that the end justifies the means.


Well, I didn't say he was "good," only that I believe he's telling the truth about unLocke.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I hope they explain how Widmore went from being Ben's enemy, to Smokey's. Why did Widmore send Kearney to kill everyone and take _Ben_ off the island? Why change from Ben to Smokey?

Are we going to see Widmore and Ben team up at the end?


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Was it Sayid that killed Patch guy the first time around?


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

What if the Flash-sideways is the consequence of MIB leaving the Island?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Ya know, I'm not entirely sure, but I THINK that the show V airs after Lost...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> I hope they explain how Widmore went from being Ben's enemy, to Smokey's. Why did Widmore send Kearney to kill everyone and take _Ben_ off the island? Why change from Ben to Smokey?


Widmore was probably always Smokey's enemy, from childhood (being part of Richard's posse). His animus towards Ben was personal (Ben got him booted from the island).

Maybe he needed Ben to fill him in on the inner workings of the island (e.g., moving it; but I suspect he thinks Ben knows a lot more about the inner workings of the island than Ben actually knows) so that he could fully take over Ben's leadership role.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

In the previews for next week -


Spoiler



How about the bagpipes playing amazing grace (used a lot at funerals) and the fact that we finally see Desmond again. Were the bagpipes for him or for the show coming to an end......


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> Ya know, I'm not entirely sure, but I THINK that the show V airs after Lost...


Yeah, but in how many minutes?


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> Ya know, I'm not entirely sure, but I THINK that the show V airs after Lost...





Amnesia said:


> Yeah, but in how many minutes?


To beat that old cliche to death, it really really took me out of the moment.

Oh yeah, great episode too.


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

The V countdown bug was the most annoying thing I've seen in a while. 

I laughed when Mikhail showed up... I was wondering just a few weeks ago whether or not we'd ever see that guy again.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> Ya know, I'm not entirely sure, but I THINK that the show V airs after Lost...


Piss me off. I found that continually distracting. Worse yet MA had a flood warning banner along the bottom mostly obscuring the Corean translations.
Loved seeing Keamey again. Particularly his "I'm in a Godzilla movie" remark. He and Sawyer would be a hoot together.


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## CarynFromHermosa (Sep 26, 2005)

Another "What happened, happened" moment -- Mikhael lost an eye!


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

This post brought to you by the letter V and the numbers 42:21, 42:20, 42:19, 42:18,...


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Patchy getting it in the eye

What's done is done

Whatever happens happens

Desmond looking like eddie vedder

Sun hitting her head and only speaking japanese......are the time lines starting to merge?

So the folks sitting around the fire were not necessarily candidates. We don't know for sure which kwan....

Could Widmore and ben have been candidates at some point?

Sun.....hawt. 



I know I probably didn't "see" all this clearly, but a fun episode. Maybe not nearly as emotional as ab aeterno, but still moving forward.....


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## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

jlb said:


> Sun hitting her head and only *speaking japanese*......are the time lines starting to merge?


Which is *really* strange, 'cause she's Korean


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

jlb said:


> Sun hitting her head and only speaking (Korean)......are the time lines starting to merge?


Sun knows English in the flash sideways world, but her keeping it initially hidden from Jin seems to be common to both timelines (IIRC).


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

ElJay said:


> The V countdown bug was the most annoying thing I've seen in a while.


HOLY SMOKES, YES!!! HOW THE F*** could they have that thing on there the whole time (well, except for when subtitles were on th screen)?!?! At least on a no-overscan HD screen, which most people use I assume, that f***ing red V logo was 1/3 in from the right side of the screen. Hideously annoying!!! I've never seen anything that deliberately annoying.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

ElJay said:


> Sun knows English in the flash sideways world


Do we have confirmation of this?


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

ElJay said:


> Sun knows English in the flash sideways world, but her keeping it initially hidden from Jin seems to be common to both timelines (IIRC).


What makes you say she knows it in the alt timeline?


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

The V logo bothered me too. But mostly because it was pixelated. That really bothered me for some reason.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

betts4 said:


> The look on Jin's face as he sees his daughter. That was great.


Having a young daughter, those scenes always get me right in the heart. I can only imagine.


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> What if the Flash-sideways is the consequence of MIB leaving the Island?


Here's my theory on the flash-sideways: As everyone says, they're consequences of Jacob NOT interfering with their lives. However, most or all of their lives will be worst than the real reality. The characters will later be able to "see" this flash-sideways, and be thankful that Jacob did touch them.

I've neen holding on to this theory since the beginning of the season. Sun getting shot while being pregnant made me a little more confidence of it. There's only 6 (or is it 8?) more episodes, and at the current pace, I don't see how she can make a full recovery.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

dtle said:


> Here's my theory on the flash-sideways: As everyone says, they're consequences of Jacob NOT interfering with their lives. However, most or all of their lives will be worst than the real reality. The characters will later be able to "see" this flash-sideways, and be thankful that Jacob did touch them.
> 
> I've neen holding on to this theory since the beginning of the season. Sun getting shot while being pregnant made me a little more confidence of it. There's only 6 (or is it 8?) more episodes, and at the current pace, I don't see how she can make a full recovery.


6 regular episodes, and then the 2 hour finale episode(s)...so 8 hours of the show remains.


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## greggt007 (Dec 9, 2005)

the V..so annoying. most annoying when sun was writing down on paper to jack and a big V covered up the word. wow

sun drinking champagne while pregnant?

all this episode explained was the recent question of how jin got in the kitchen. yay, now we know.
and that desmond was in the sub. this being from a half-door that had a lock on it...very suspicious says sawyer. oh and maybe widmore being a good guy.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

How cold is it that Sun's father had Jin carry the payment for Jin's own execution to Keaney? Brilliant, but cold.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

CarynFromHermosa said:


> Another "What happened, happened" moment -- Mikhael lost an eye!





jlb said:


> Patchy getting it in the eye


I smiled when I saw that.



jlb said:


> Sun.....hawt.


Too bad she's off the market.



dtle said:


> Here's my theory on the flash-sideways: As everyone says, they're consequences of Jacob NOT interfering with their lives. However, most or all of their lives will be worst than the real reality. The characters will later be able to "see" this flash-sideways, and be thankful that Jacob did touch them.
> 
> I've neen holding on to this theory since the beginning of the season. Sun getting shot while being pregnant made me a little more confidence of it. There's only 6 (or is it 8?) more episodes, and at the current pace, I don't see how she can make a full recovery.


Yeah, I can't see how getting shot like that is better.

Things are simmering along nicely and should be coming to a full boil shortly.
Ford is worried so what's he going to do next?

Does Kate realize that she's cannon fodder?

And Jin and Sun did not have sex.


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

The V ruined it for me. I sent a complaint to ABC.


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## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

dtle said:


> Here's my theory on the flash-sideways: As everyone says, they're consequences of Jacob NOT interfering with their lives. However, most or all of their lives will be worst than the real reality. The characters will later be able to "see" this flash-sideways, and be thankful that Jacob did touch them. ...


Another "mirror moment" with Sun tonight. I think it has to mean that somehow these characters are going to eventually "remember" their time on the Island. Now whether that's just a consciousness-type thing, or an actual physically-on-the-Island-type thing, I don't know. So then we would be back to that whole universe-course-correcting thing. Of course, if it doesn't start happening pretty darn quick, then my theory goes out the window.

So I'm guessing Dr. Jack Shepard will soon have a Korean female gunshot victim to save?

More treachery from MIB-Locke -- he's given Claire the green light to take Kate out once they leave the Island.

Loved the moment when Sun just broke and ran from MIB-Locke. That was the right answer, I think. Disappointed we still didn't get our Sun/Jin reunion.

Still have a hard time understanding why the sonic pylons would stop Smokey from going above them. Looks like they've placed the pylons around the Ajira plane. I was wondering how they were going to do that -- that sub wasn't big enough to carry enough pylons to surround the entire Hydra Island.

Ben trying to get Ilana to believe that he had nothing to do with Sun hitting her head. :up:

Desmond is the package -- just as I suspected. But no Penny??? Too busy with her own series, I guess.

Great scene with Jack and Sun near the end. Jack offering his hand just as MIB-Locke did earlier. And this time, Sun took it. Jack *IS* our hero.

Sun's strip-tease!! :up::up::up:

Hmmm...Zoe wants to know where all the pockets of electomagnetic energy on the Island are. So do they just plop Desmond near one of those areas and he "Chuck"-flashes and tells everybody their futures?

Widmore says that if Smokey gets off the Island, "everyone we know and love....would simply cease to be." So is Smokey an alternative reality that would replace the current reality? Does that make Jacob the keeper of the Universe - the guy in charge of course-correcting?

MIB-Locke repeating Widmore's own words back to him (as spoken to John Locke off-Island). "There's a war coming."

If Sun knows English in the flash-sideways, she did an excellent job of not letting on during the translations with Patchy. And we did hear Jin say "Thank You" to Keamy...

Keamy...you just can't seem to keep that guy dead. And I have to admit that when 9-Lives Patchy got shot in the eye, my first thought was "so that's why he had the eye patch on the Island!"


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

The V countdown didn't RUIN it for me, but WTF? I was able to tune it out after a minute or two.


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## Roadblock (Apr 5, 2006)

ElJay said:


> The V countdown bug was the most annoying thing I've seen in a while.


Wow, they sure convinced me never to watch that show.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

I kinda wish I hadn't already given up on V so that I could drop it in protest. It'd make me feel better anyway. I expect the uproar from LOST fans to be significant.

Edit: It made me so angry I actually paused the show for about 15 minutes while I tried to find a way to block the logo what was less obtrusive than the logo itself.

Edit: 
ABC Fail: 'V' Countdown Clock Inspires Backlash


> ABC's decision to blanket Tuesday night's "Lost" with a virtually omnipresent "V" countdown clock has provoked a massive on-line backlash -- including a slam from series co-creator Damon Lindelof.
> 
> "Yes, people, I saw it too," a clearly perturbed Lindelof wrote during the west coast broadcast of his show. ":34 minutes until I cry myself to sleep."


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

Am I the only one who never recognized "patchy"? Even when he was shot in the eye.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Fantastic cinematography tonight. Not a spoiler, just surprisingly large:



Spoiler


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Peter000 said:


> How cold is it that Sun's father had Jin carry the payment for Jin's own execution to Keaney? Brilliant, but cold.


Where have I seen that before? Some classic story about a man unwittingly carrying instructions for his own execution...maybe in Greek mythology?

Knowing this show, it might be important!


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

You may be thinking of Uriah, Bathsheba's husband, who carried an order from David to his commander Joab to have him killed in battle.



> 2 Samuel 11:14-15 (New International Version)
> 
> 14 In the morning David wrote a letter to Joab and sent it with Uriah. 15 In it he wrote, "Put Uriah in the front line where the fighting is fiercest. Then withdraw from him so he will be struck down and die."


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Fool Me Twice said:


> You may be thinking of Uriah, Bathsheba's husband, who carried an order from David to his commander to have him killed in battle.


That's the one! Thanks...


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## Roommate (Apr 23, 2003)

Fool Me Twice said:


> You may be thinking of Uriah, Bathsheba's husband, who carried an order from David to his commander Joab to have him killed in battle.


Ah, yes. That's much more likely than the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern analogy I was trying to come up with.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

greggt007 said:


> ...
> sun drinking champagne while pregnant?
> ...


Wow. Saw that, but I didn't put 2 & 2 together. Unless of course she got pregnant _after_ drinking the champagne, and "just knows" she's pregnant!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Roommate said:


> Ah, yes. That's much more likely than the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern analogy I was trying to come up with.


Although, contrary to my earlier supposition, not likely to be terribly meaningful...that is, I doubt very much that Sun's father was trying to get rid of her lover so he could have her for himself!


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Geesh, you guys are all over that V countdown and I didn't even know what you meant.....my tivo peanut lets me buzz thru commercials with a blip of a button.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

betts4 said:


> Geesh, you guys are all over that V countdown and I didn't even know what you meant.....my tivo peanut lets me buzz thru commercials with a blip of a button.


It wasn't a commercial. It was on the show on the bottom right hand corner.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Keamey has a very, very threatening smile.

I hope there's a significant payoff for these flash sidewayses. This one seemed like filler.

Kate was a bit player this week. She didn't even need to be in this episode.

Is V even popular? The way they were promoting it, it was like American Idol returning. Channel bugs have gotten out of control on a number of channels.

Zombayid was disturbing.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> It wasn't a commercial. It was on the show on the bottom right hand corner.


It would be easier to ignore if it were all the way in the bottom right hand corner. It "floats" out from the corner, covering usable screen real estate like Sun's note, at least on my HD tv.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

The scene where Jin kills patchy seemed familiar to me at the time, but I didn't think long on it, but it just came to me. The Magnum P.I. episode "Did you see the Sunrise?" Not a perfect match as it turns out. Just an evil Russian telling the good guy he doesn't have it in him to shoot.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

Turtleboy said:


> I hope they explain how Widmore went from being Ben's enemy, to Smokey's. Why did Widmore send Kearney to kill everyone and take _Ben_ off the island? Why change from Ben to Smokey?
> 
> Are we going to see Widmore and Ben team up at the end?


Maybe Widmore was always against Ben because Ben was unknowingly helping Smokey. For example, he was in charge of getting the landing strip built. We've always thought it was so the Ajira plane could land. Maybe the importance was so the Ajira plane could take off, taking Smokey with it.



jkeegan said:


> Ya know, I'm not entirely sure, but I THINK that the show V airs after Lost...


That was awful. The masses are not happy.


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## Scubee (Mar 2, 2005)

Could someone in that camp not remind Claire how to use some water to wash her face? And for some reason, the Tina Fey character REALLY gets on my nerves. I'm not sure if it's the acting or the character itself. Wish she'd go away.

"Cease to be" is the strongest hint to the true consequence of Smokey's escape from the island. I'm just not sure if it should be taken literally. 

Favorite line of the episode was Miles', "Unless Alpert's covered in bacon grease, I'm not sure Hurley can track anything."


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> It would be easier to ignore if it were all the way in the bottom right hand corner. It "floats" out from the corner, covering usable screen real estate like Sun's note, at least on my HD tv.


That's so the picture could be cropped and the countdown would still show up on SD TVs (how I see it). It's far more "tucked away" in the corner, probably why it didn't bother me as much.

At least the bug was mostly static. USA tends to have bugs that are fully animated, filling up the entire bottom quarter of the screen with sound sometimes! (but only lasting 20-30 sec.). Those are more annoying, IMO.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Scubee said:


> Favorite line of the episode was Miles', "Unless Alpert's covered in bacon grease, I'm not sure Hurley can track anything."


Don't say "bacon".


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

jradford said:


> Maybe Widmore was always against Ben because Ben was unknowingly helping Smokey. For example, he was in charge of getting the landing strip built. We've always thought it was so the Ajira plane could land. Maybe the importance was so the Ajira plane could take off, taking Smokey with it.


I don't see how that plane is getting off the ground. Makes me want to think that MIB has another plan for the candidates on Hydra island. But, everyone on the show seems to think it's possible, so I guess I'll go with it.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Peter000 said:


> At least the bug was mostly static. USA tends to have bugs that are fully animated, filling up the entire bottom quarter of the screen with sound sometimes! (but only lasting 20-30 sec.). Those are more annoying, IMO.


AMC's bugs for the premiere of Breaking Bad were huge and animated.


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## TiMo Tim (Jul 20, 2001)

ElJay said:


> I laughed when Mikhail showed up... I was wondering just a few weeks ago whether or not we'd ever see that guy again.


It's kinda like the Seinfeld finale, where all the past characters show up again.

(Should I have spoiler-tagged that?  )


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

jamesbobo said:


> Am I the only one who never recognized "patchy"? Even when he was shot in the eye.


I didn't recognize him until the bank scene. I knew he looked familiar, but couldn't place him.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Peter000 said:


> I didn't recognize him until the bank scene. I knew he looked familiar, but couldn't place him.


Since they told us he was coming ("Doesn't that Russian guy Mikhail speak Korean? Go get him" or something like that), I was ready for him and recognized him instantly.


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## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

jamesbobo said:


> Am I the only one who never recognized "patchy"? Even when he was shot in the eye.


Yes


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## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

So who is the "package"...Walt? Desmond? some obscure character?


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Alfer said:


> So who is the "package"...Walt? Desmond? some obscure character?


You didn't see them drag Desmond off the sub?


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

vertigo235 said:


> What makes you say she knows it in the alt timeline?


I thought it was made pretty obvious in the airport scenes when the character was introduced during the flash-sideways. Or am I imagining things?


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## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

JYoung said:


> And Jin and Sun did not have sex.


I see what you did there. 

As for the V BUG - I put a largish size black book in front of it and turned the lights off. Went away. I used to do this during Fox baseball games when they had the never ending crawler along the bottom.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Since they told us he was coming ("Doesn't that Russian guy Mikhail speak Korean? Go get him" or something like that), I was ready for him and recognized him instantly.


Sort of like Henry Ian Cusack being in the opening credits, so you're expecting Desmond to show up sooner or later.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> Sort of like Henry Ian Cusack being in the opening credits, so you're expecting Desmond to show up sooner or later.


I think Henry Ian Cusick is in the opening credits every week. I'm pretty sure he's in the TiVo guide data for Lost every week as a member of the permanent cast.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

javabird said:


> The V ruined it for me. I sent a complaint to ABC.


It looks like Mike Benson is the VP of Marketing for ABC and was the one responsible for the V bug decision. I haven't been able to find his e-mail address yet. Have it handy?


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

aindik said:


> I think Henry Ian Cusick is in the opening credits every week. I'm pretty sure he's in the TiVo guide data for Lost every week as a member of the permanent cast.


Right. So I've been expecting all season for him to show up again as a major character, and not just a blip on the plane in the premiere.


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

danterner said:


> It looks like Mike Benson is the VP of Marketing for ABC and was the one responsible for the V bug decision. I haven't been able to find his e-mail address yet. Have it handy?


something tells me that he won't be having a very good day......


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

jamesbobo said:


> Am I the only one who never recognized "patchy"? Even when he was shot in the eye.


I didn't recognize him, either.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

JYoung said:


> And Jin and Sun did not have sex.


I will be stupid, but is this a joke or was there some way it was shown that they didn't have sex?



Turtleboy said:


> It wasn't a commercial. It was on the show on the bottom right hand corner.


Oh that thing. YES, very annoying.



Scubee said:


> Favorite line of the episode was Miles', "Unless Alpert's covered in bacon grease, I'm not sure Hurley can track anything."


Laughed out loud at that one. He could have said "Ranch Dressing" and reminded us all of that huge jug of Dharma goodness.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I am afraid that once LOST ends there will be nothing to put in it's spot except 2 hours of that dancing show. argh.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

betts4 said:


> I will be stupid, but is this a joke or was there some way it was shown that they didn't have sex?


Well, Sun was looking rather _gaunt_.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

betts4 said:


> I am afraid that once LOST ends there will be nothing to put in it's spot except 2 hours of that dancing show. argh.


Maybe they can have a DWTS competition with the Lost actors.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

Apparently this is the episode that caused everyone to lose their eyesight. Betts didn't see the massive red V bug (it was about four inches tall on my screen.) Alfer didn't see Desmond (or hear them say "Mr. Hume.") A lot of people didn't recognize Mikhail.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

NoThru22 said:


> Apparently this is the episode that caused everyone to lose their eyesight. Betts didn't see the massive red V bug (it was about four inches tall on my screen.) Alfer didn't see Desmond (or hear them say "Mr. Hume.") A lot of people didn't recognize Mikhail.


All I saw was the closeup of Sun's cleavage. After that, I was blinded into bliss.


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## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

NoThru22 said:


> Apparently this is the episode that caused everyone to lose their eyesight. Betts didn't see the massive red V bug (it was about four inches tall on my screen.) Alfer didn't see Desmond (or hear them say "Mr. Hume.") A lot of people didn't recognize Mikhail.


I must have been HIP-MO-TIZED by that damn "V" !!


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## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

Scubee said:


> Favorite line of the episode was Miles', "Unless Alpert's covered in bacon grease, I'm not sure Hurley can track anything."


My favorite part was the follow up line from Frank. You're thinking that Frank is taking offense to Miles' line, and standing up for Hurley, and instead, he just doesn't want to talk about bacon.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

It was irritating how much paper Sun was wasting. A whole page for "Yes"? "Sorry "

arghhhhhhhhh


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> Zombayid was disturbing.


I don't know if that name has been used before, but that's effing funny.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

jlb said:


> Sun hitting her head and only speaking japanese......


You've been watching too many Godzilla movies


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

What a great episode. Its unfortunate that half the posts have been about the stupid V bug at the bottom.

I'm not sure if we know that Sun does speak English in the flash sideways. They made it seem like at customs she chose to not respond but she may not have been able to. I was pretty shocked at the reveal that they weren't married. I was not expecting that.

I had no doubt that the package would be Desmond. The look that Sayid and Desmond shared was interesting. I'm not quite sure what meant. Did Desmond recognize Sayid? Sayid is going to be trouble based on his discussion with Locke about not feeling anything.

Sun going off Richard in Korean when he said he wanted to destroy the plane was awesome!

I also love the comic relief provided by Miles and Frank.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

The Sayid and Desmond exchange was a bit odd. But Desmond was still in a drug induced stupor, and Sayid was in his emotionless state.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> The Sayid and Desmond exchange was a bit odd. But Sayid was still in a drug induced stupor, and Sayid was in his emotionless state.


Zombayid, a man without a soul?

Those few who were wondering who's evil have to deal with unLocke's statement to wacko Claire that after Kate helps him in his goal to escape "Whatever happens, happens"


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

MonsterJoe said:


> It was irritating how much paper Sun was wasting. A whole page for "Yes"? "Sorry "
> 
> arghhhhhhhhh


She had to write that big for it to be seen over that damn "V" bug.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

The Tinafeyesque person is a horrible actress.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

Turtleboy said:


> The Sayid and Desmond exchange was a bit odd. But Sayid *Desmond* was still in a drug induced stupor, and Sayid was in his emotionless state.


FYP
Not to mention that there was the face of a man unexpectedly staring at him from the water in the middle of the night...


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

orangeboy said:


> FYP
> Not to mention that there was the face of a man unexpectedly staring at him from the water in the middle of the night...


D'oh! Thanks, fixed.


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## mulscully (May 31, 2003)

Favorite lines paraphrased..


Miles: She gets hit in the head and can't speak english? Were supposed to believe that?

???: Coming from the guy who speaks to dead people.

---------

Unlocke: If I could just fly over there don't you think I would have done that already

James: Yeah. THAT would be ridiculous..


----------



## DavidJL (Feb 21, 2006)

There was a moment when Sun was going to the hotel room door when Keamy was knocking and she looked at her face in the mirror and paused as if she recognized something. Similar to Jack on the plane with the cut on his neck and later with his appendix scar. I wonder if the realities are merging in a way that starts off with injuries in one reality being felt in the other. Was Sun recognizing the bruise to her forehead from the other reality. I'm not sure what Jack's cut on his neck translates from, but there were very distinct injuries to the survivors in the series premier, Locke's eye for example. Will Locke recognize something in the mirror in the flash sideways?


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Peter000 said:


> I didn't recognize him until the bank scene. I knew he looked familiar, but couldn't place him.





Jeeters said:


> I didn't recognize him, either.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> Since they told us he was coming ("Doesn't that Russian guy Mikhail speak Korean? Go get him" or something like that), I was ready for him and recognized him instantly.


I recognized his name in the credits, and expected him to turn up once the "Russian guy Mikhail" was mentioned. He's one of those character actors who's been around for years that I recognize the name of, I think the first time I remember seeing him was on Highlander.



NoThru22 said:


> Apparently this is the episode that caused everyone to lose their eyesight. Betts didn't see the massive red V bug (it was about four inches tall on my screen.) Alfer didn't see Desmond (or hear them say "Mr. Hume.") A lot of people didn't recognize Mikhail.


I didn't recognize Desmond, but deduced it was him, then watched a couple times to confirm. It was REALLY dark, even in HD I had a tough time.

From now on though, we can no longer call Desmond by his name. He's "The Package".

One thing I thought of this morning on the way to work is he's had two titles like this. He's also The Constant. Oh, and Bruthah. 

Greg


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

mulscully said:


> Favorite lines paraphrased..


Not to mention Sawyer & Flocke...

Sawyer: "Why don't you just change into a puff of smoke and go over there yourself?"
Flocke: "Do you think that if I could do that I'd still be on this island?"
Sawyer: "Because THAT would be RIDICULOUS."

Greg


----------



## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

"V" Countdown Clock Inspires Backlash: http://www.thewrap.com/ind-column/abc-fail-v-countdown-clock-inspires-backlash-15818


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

jradford said:


> Maybe Widmore was always against Ben because Ben was unknowingly helping Smokey. For example, he was in charge of getting the landing strip built. We've always thought it was so the Ajira plane could land. Maybe the importance was so the Ajira plane could take off, taking Smokey with it.


Now here's a question.
Why does it have to be a plane?

Boats and subs have gotten to the Island but why does Smokey have to leave in a plane?
Or was Jacob ultimately responsible for Widmore's freighter blowing up in order to cut off an avenue of escape for MIB?



betts4 said:


> I will be stupid, but is this a joke or was there some way it was shown that they didn't have sex?


Jae and Sun did not have sex.


----------



## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

DavidJL said:


> There was a moment when Sun was going to the hotel room door when Keamy was knocking and she looked at her face in the mirror and paused as if she recognized something. Similar to Jack on the plane with the cut on his neck and later with his appendix scar. I wonder if the realities are merging in a way that starts off with injuries in one reality being felt in the other. Was Sun recognizing the bruise to her forehead from the other reality. I'm not sure what Jack's cut on his neck translates from, but there were very distinct injuries to the survivors in the series premier, Locke's eye for example. Will Locke recognize something in the mirror in the flash sideways?


THIS.

Thank you for mentioning that. Actually, we've seen it two other times, too. James Ford looked into a mirror for an awfully long time, before punching it. And Kate looked into the mirror in the bathroom at the body shop, as well.

I can't recall if Ben or Locke did.


----------



## crazywater (Mar 7, 2001)

A couple of things...

UnLocke says that Kate is not a candidate but isn't her name on the wheel? So he is lying to Claire to get her to kill Kate. Also whats up with Keamey's concern for Jin's head injury? And Sun's looking at herself in the mirror as if she is remembering something?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JYoung said:


> Now here's a question.
> Why does it have to be a plane?
> 
> Boats and subs have gotten to the Island but why does Smokey have to leave in a plane?


Who says it has to be a plane?

A plane is what he has at hand.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

mulscully said:


> Unlocke: If I could just fly over there don't you think I would have done that already
> 
> James: Yeah. THAT would be ridiculous..


LOVED that line.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

JYoung said:


> Jae and Sun did not have sex.


I know this has been a running joke since then, but at the time I was one of the people who argued that it wasn't clear that they had actually done it. Something about the way the scene was filmed.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

crazywater said:


> UnLocke says that Kate is not a candidate but isn't her name on the wheel?


There are two lists. One are the people on the wheel in the lighthouse, the other is the list of people on the ceiling of the cave.

Greg


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

appleye1 said:


> "V" Countdown Clock Inspires Backlash: http://www.thewrap.com/ind-column/abc-fail-v-countdown-clock-inspires-backlash-15818


:up:


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> Is V even popular? The way they were promoting it, it was like American Idol returning. Channel bugs have gotten out of control on a number of channels.


If it was popular, they wouldn't have felt the need to promote it so heavily. I think they thought they were taking advantage of marketing to what the thought was a receptive audience. One that could get invested in a serialized sci fi show.



gchance said:


> There are two lists. One are the people on the wheel in the lighthouse, the other is the list of people on the ceiling of the cave.
> 
> Greg


Not-Locke told Claire that her name was not written in the cave, but I'm pretty sure "Littleton" was there. Of course, that could mean Aaron.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

gchance said:


> I didn't recognize Desmond, but deduced it was him, then watched a couple times to confirm. It was REALLY dark, even in HD I had a tough time.
> 
> Greg


It was tough at first, and I kind of just knew it was him because I was expecting it, but they also called him "Mr. Hume" as they pulled him out.


----------



## Scubee (Mar 2, 2005)

crazywater said:


> Also whats up with Keamey's concern for Jin's head injury?


Glad you reminded me of that. If Keamey was going to kill him, why does he care if he has a bump on his head? I didn't get it at the time, but the thought was lost within my questions regarding the rest of the episode. Seems like I'm nit-picking but it seemed strangely out of place.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Scubee said:


> Glad you reminded me of that. If Keamey was going to kill him, why does he care if he has a bump on his head? I didn't get it at the time, but the thought was lost within my questions regarding the rest of the episode. Seems like I'm nit-picking but it seemed strangely out of place.


I thought he was just messing with him. Trying to make him think he's being nice to him just as some sort of game. Or maybe to help keep him docile.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I wonder if Keamey would have still killed Jin without payment. On one hand, it had gone fair enough that he probably would have had to.

On the other, he seems like the type of guy who doesn't work without being paid.


----------



## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

Another episode with no real answers. Moved the fake locke/widmore storyline a tad. Episode did nothing for me. Meh...

Pretty much filler.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Who says it has to be a plane?
> 
> A plane is what he has at hand.


But would he try for Widmore's sub since it's not within the perimeter of the Sonic Fence?
(And has Widmore overlooked this?)

Or is that his plan and why he keeps Ford close as James seems to think he can commandeer it?

If Real Locke hadn't blown up the Dharma sub, would MIB be trying to use that?
Widmore's Freighter?

Are there no other boats available now (2007) other than the outriggers?


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

I don't understand how moving plot elements into position is filler. It's "answers" or nothing? Nah, it's a good story, and I have patience. I grew up reading Stephen King, for cryin' out loud!


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

hefe said:


> If it was popular, they wouldn't have felt the need to promote it so heavily. I think they thought they were taking advantage of marketing to what the thought was a receptive audience. One that could get invested in a serialized sci fi show.


The thinking was probably right (I know I like V), but the execution was terrible...


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

crazywater said:


> A couple of things...
> 
> UnLocke says that Kate is not a candidate but isn't her name on the wheel? So he is lying to Claire to get her to kill Kate. Also whats up with Keamey's concern for Jin's head injury? And Sun's looking at herself in the mirror as if she is remembering something?


I'm pretty sure that, the way the dialog went, it was:

Q: Is Kate a candidate?
A: Not anymore.

Unlocke wasn't saying Kate was never a candidate; he was saying that she is no longer in play. Presumably, because he's recruited her.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> On the other, he seems like the type of guy who doesn't work without being paid.


This.

Keamy didn't want to mess up Jin because he wasn't going to mess up Jin without getting paid first.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

danterner said:


> I'm pretty sure that, the way the dialog went, it was:
> 
> Q: Is Kate a candidate?
> A: Not anymore.
> ...


I don't think so. He's recruited Sawyer, Sayid, and Jin too. He seems to need them (or Sun instead of Jin) in a way he doesn't need Kate. I think she's just there as bait for the ones he does need.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

DavidJL said:


> There was a moment when Sun was going to the hotel room door when Keamy was knocking and she looked at her face in the mirror and paused as if she recognized something. Similar to Jack on the plane with the cut on his neck and later with his appendix scar. I wonder if the realities are merging in a way that starts off with injuries in one reality being felt in the other. Was Sun recognizing the bruise to her forehead from the other reality. I'm not sure what Jack's cut on his neck translates from, but there were very distinct injuries to the survivors in the series premier, Locke's eye for example. Will Locke recognize something in the mirror in the flash sideways?


Actually, I think there were two mirror-moments in this episode's flash-sideways: one for Sun, and one for Jin. You pointed out the one for Sun, above. Jin's was while he was sitting in the refrigeration unit. There was an open metallic door that reflected his image. The way the shot was framed it seemed very intentionally done. Jin, though, didn't look at his reflection the same way that Sun and Jack paused over theirs. I wonder if that's significant, or if the door reflection was unintentional?


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

So, if Keamy works for Paik, and in some reality he works for Whidmore... does it mean Paik and Whidmore are working together?


----------



## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

I thought it was a bit weak that they sent the money with Jin when it would seem smart people like Jin's boss would know that the money would be confiscated at the border....

That just seemed out of place.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

"The Package" is Desmond's? But how does Widmore know? Did daughter Penny reveal the salient details to her father?  Just what is so special about Desmond's 'package'. Another unanswered LOST mystery.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

SeanC said:


> I thought it was a bit weak that they sent the money with Jin when it would seem smart people like Jin's boss would know that the money would be confiscated at the border....
> 
> That just seemed out of place.


The money was confiscated at the border because Jin didn't declare it at customs. Maybe he was supposed to declare it.

But what was the point of the watch? Keamy didn't seem to be expecting it. It didn't seem to have a point, other than to have Keamy say "this watch...." in his best Christopher Walken.


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Another Paik-Whidmore analogy:
They both want their potential son-in-laws gone.


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

aindik said:


> The money was confiscated at the border because Jin didn't declare it at customs. Maybe he was supposed to declare it.


But that would leave a trail, too. Something else is up, or the writers suck.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

hefe said:


> It was tough at first, and I kind of just knew it was him because I was expecting it, but they also called him "Mr. Hume" as they pulled him out.


it wasn't until they said his name that I knew it was him. I don't know if it was shot to be that way, if not it was rather poorly done.


----------



## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Fool Me Twice said:


> I don't see how that plane is getting off the ground. Makes me want to think that MIB has another plan for the candidates on Hydra island. But, everyone on the show seems to think it's possible, so I guess I'll go with it.


This has been bugging me since it was first mentioned to Sawyer by Locke. That just seems ridiculous to me. I mean, is that even possible - for a commercial airliner to take off without an 'real' runway? Carving out a runway that would be good enough for an emergency landing is one thing, but taking off? Seems to me that a jet airliner is going to need a long, smooth, paved surface in order to get up to speed, not a dirt landing strip.

I don't know that much about planes, admittedly. Does anyone think this would even be remotely possible? The stock response on things like this is: "C'mon, it's LOST! You can accept all these absurd things but the plane is the detail you can't buy". I guess it's as possible as time-travel, right?


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

DUDE_NJX said:


> But that would leave a trail, too. Something else is up, or the writers suck.


It would leave a trail back to Jin, who would be dead.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

aindik said:


> The money was confiscated at the border because Jin didn't declare it at customs. Maybe he was supposed to declare it.


The customs officer told him he could get the money if he filled out some paperwork. I don't know if Jin didn't do it because he didn't understand the directions, or because he didn't want to leave a paper trail.



aindik said:


> But what was the point of the watch? Keamy didn't seem to be expecting it. It didn't seem to have a point, other than to have Keamy say "this watch...." in his best Christopher Walken.


The actor who plays Keamy looks a LOT like Walken too!


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

aindik said:


> The money was confiscated at the border because Jin didn't declare it at customs. Maybe he was supposed to declare it.
> 
> But what was the point of the watch? Keamy didn't seem to be expecting it. It didn't seem to have a point, other than to have Keamy say "this watch...." in his best Christopher Walken.


My experience is that some Asian cultures exchange gifts when doing business


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

danterner said:


>


They even got Jin to wear a "V" shirt.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

danterner said:


> The way the shot was framed it seemed very intentionally done.


Funny that the reflection didn't have that red letter on his chest. Significant?


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

On another note, if Locke couldn't cross through the line of pylons, why didn't he just wreck the legs of one of them?


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Amnesia said:


> Funny that the reflection didn't have that red letter on his chest. Significant?


It's the scarlet letter. He's only a Victim in the alt-universe.



Amnesia said:


> On another note, if Locke couldn't cross through the line of pylons, why didn't he just wreck the legs of one of them?


Because THAT would be RIDICULOUS.


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

gchance said:


> I didn't recognize Desmond, but deduced it was him, then watched a couple times to confirm. It was REALLY dark, even in HD I had a tough time.


The guys carrying him also called him "Hume" (Desmond's last name). Which confirmed it for me, so I didn't have to do what you did (rewind).

Edit: Smeek.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

And, why _can't_ Locke turn into black smoke and fly over to Hydra island? And why didn't he turn into black smoke when he went to chase Sun? And after she banged her head, why didn't he take her with him?

That last one probably has to do with a requirement that if he take a candidate, it be of the candidate's own free will.


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

aindik said:


> And, why _can't_ Locke turn into black smoke and fly over to Hydra island?


Probably the simple fact that "that's the way it is."

Do we think we'll ever find out what the Smoke Monster really is? It's origin?


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Was it the Man in Black who told Richard to tell Locke how important it was to bring all six of his friends back to the island (and to die trying), or was it time traveling John Locke? If the former, why would he want to bring them all back, when now all he wants to do is convince them to leave?

And why is/was it so important that all six come back, if they're all just candidates for one job.

Did MIB say last night that there are still six candidates? If so, who are they? I count five: Jack, Hurley, Sayid, Sawyer, and "Kwon." Who's the sixth? The sixth in the original numbers was John Locke, but he's dead.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

MonsterJoe said:


> It was irritating how much paper Sun was wasting. A whole page for "Yes"? "Sorry "
> 
> arghhhhhhhhh


That scene really bugged me since Jack understood Korean and was translating for her earlier, I understand wanting to know if she could write in English so others could understand, but after that she could have easily and quickly conversed with Jack in Korean.

Diane


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

aindik said:


> That last one probably has to do with a requirement that if he take a candidate, it be of the candidate's own free will.


I agree this is probably why he didn't. But now I'm wondering -- was Locke (while alive) ever a candidate? Did we see his name on the list, crossed off? Because wasn't there a scene in the first season or so where Smokey is pulling Locke by the leg down into a hole in the ground? I don't think Locke was being pulled willingly.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

aindik said:


> And, why _can't_ Locke turn into black smoke and fly over to Hydra island?


If certain ash can stop him as well as the sound from the pylons, it's not unreasonable to think that he's also blocked by water (after all, isn't that what's stopping him from leaving the island in the first place?)


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> That scene really bugged me since Jack understood Korean and was translating for her earlier, I understand wanting to know if she could write in English so others could understand, but after that she could have easily and quickly conversed with Jack in Korean.
> 
> Diane


Where did you get the idea that Jack understood Korean?

I'm wondering why it took so long for something to think she might be able to write in English.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

danterner said:


> I agree this is probably why he didn't. But now I'm wondering -- was Locke (while alive) ever a candidate? Did we see his name on the list, crossed off? Because wasn't there a scene in the first season or so where Smokey is pulling Locke by the leg down into a hole in the ground? I don't think Locke was being pulled willingly.


I think in the original scene in the cave had "Locke" on the wall (corresponding to one of the numbers), and MIB crossed it out with a piece of chalk.


----------



## Honora (Oct 16, 2006)

aindik said:


> Was it the Man in Black who told Richard to tell Locke how important it was to bring all six of his friends back to the island (and to die trying), or was it time traveling John Locke? If the former, why would he want to bring them all back, when now all he wants to do is convince them to leave?
> 
> And why is/was it so important that all six come back, if they're all just candidates for one job.
> 
> Did MIB say last night that there are still six candidates? If so, who are they? I count five: Jack, Hurley, Sayid, Sawyer, and "Kwon." Who's the sixth? The sixth in the original numbers was John Locke, but he's dead.


I'm getting the feeling that the reason Smokey can't leave now that Jacob is dead is that there are candidates on the island. If he can get them all to go with him (willingly?), or he kills them all, he can leave. As long as one of them is on the island alive, he can't go anywhere.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Honora said:


> I'm getting the feeling that the reason Smokey can't leave now that Jacob is dead is that there are candidates on the island. If he can get them all to go with him (willingly?), or he kills them all, he can leave. As long as one of them is on the island alive, he can't go anywhere.


Right but before there were candidates on the island, they were all gone. Wouldn't he have preferred to keep it that way?


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

aindik said:


> Was it the Man in Black who told Richard to tell Locke how important it was to bring all six of his friends back to the island (and to die trying), or was it time traveling John Locke? If the former, why would he want to bring them all back, when now all he wants to do is convince them to leave?
> 
> And why is/was it so important that all six come back, if they're all just candidates for one job.
> 
> Did MIB say last night that there are still six candidates? If so, who are they? I count five: Jack, Hurley, Sayid, Sawyer, and "Kwon." Who's the sixth? The sixth in the original numbers was John Locke, but he's dead.


Kwon counts as two.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> Kwon counts as two.


Ah. He needs to take them both because he doesn't know which one he needs. Duh.


----------



## SugarBowl (Jan 5, 2007)

aindik said:


> The money was confiscated at the border because Jin didn't declare it at customs. Maybe he was supposed to declare it.
> 
> But what was the point of the watch? Keamy didn't seem to be expecting it. It didn't seem to have a point, other than to have Keamy say "this watch...." in his best Christopher Walken.


Why didn't he just fill out the paperwork to get the 25 grand back?


----------



## dagojr (Jan 9, 2004)

philw1776 said:


> "The Package" is Desmond's? But how does Widmore know? Did daughter Penny reveal the salient details to her father?  Just what is so special about Desmond's 'package'. Another unanswered LOST mystery.


maybe because desmond is the only one who can change things??


----------



## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

aindik said:


> The money was confiscated at the border because Jin didn't declare it at customs. Maybe he was supposed to declare it.


True, but again, I would expect Jin's boss to be aware of the rules regarding 25k going across borders, Jin not so much. And since it was pretty darned important that the money make it, why wouldn't he explain to Jin;

"oh by the way, make sure you declare this money on a form they'll give you on the plane."

or

"You can't cross borders with 25k in cash, here's a money belt, hide the money, don't mention it to anyone, only take it off when you get to the hotel."

not a big deal, just seems a real obvious thing to screwup when you want to have a guy pay for a hit on himself.


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

aindik said:


> But what was the point of the watch? Keamy didn't seem to be expecting it. It didn't seem to have a point, other than to have Keamy say "this watch...." in his best Christopher Walken.


Remember, the whole reason that Jin and Sun were on the original Oceanic flight was because Jin was supposed to be delivering a watch to one of her father's 'associates'.

I vaguely remember it being mentioned that was actually one of his jobs... periodically delivering 'watches' to various associates for her dad. The plan was that on that particular flight to L.A., he (and her. since she tagged along this time) weren't going to return.



aindik said:


> The money was confiscated at the border because Jin didn't declare it at customs. Maybe he was supposed to declare it.


I forget how the money was confiscated (was it in the box), but perhaps it was supposed to be hidden in the watch box some how such that an inspector should normally not find it? i.e., all the watch deliveries he'd been making were actually just money drops?


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

aindik said:


> Right but before there were candidates on the island, they were all gone. Wouldn't he have preferred to keep it that way?


I think that the only way he could get the plane there was to recreate the conditions of Flight 815.
Eloise said all of them had to be on Ajira 316.


----------



## peitsche (Nov 13, 2002)

here's my wife's theory:


Aaron is the candidate, and he will be the key to saving the island. 

"Austen" is one of the candidate names. It is crossed out in the cave but not in the lighthouse, per Lostpedia. Last night, Smokey said that Kate used to be a candidate, but he has verified she is not. She thinks "Austen" refers not to Kate, but to Aaron's adoptive last name. 

Aaron being the candidate ties into the psychic saying he cannot be "raised by another." It also ties in to Kate's visions of Claire saying not to bring him back to the island. She hasn't fully developed how that ties in exactly. 

Aaron being the candidate also ties into the fertility problems on the island. She thinks Smokey was somehow causing the fetuses to die, but he couldn't affect Aaron.


----------



## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Fantastic cinematography tonight. Not a spoiler, just surprisingly large:
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Best. Spoiler. Tag. Ever. 



mulscully said:


> Favorite lines paraphrased..
> Unlocke: If I could just fly over there don't you think I would have done that already
> James: Yeah. THAT would be ridiculous..


Another great Sawyer quote. :up:



aindik said:


> And, why _can't_ Locke turn into black smoke and fly over to Hydra island?...


Because, of course, it's "Smoke *ON* the water, and *Fire* in the sky." Based on all his trips off-Island, Jacob must be Fire?


----------



## AlphaDelta (Jan 9, 2007)

appleye1 said:


> "V" Countdown Clock Inspires Backlash: http://www.thewrap.com/ind-column/abc-fail-v-countdown-clock-inspires-backlash-15818


It wasn't a countdown to V's cancellation?


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Maybe some of you guys can help me flesh out a theory.

Jacob and MiB are engaged in a wager. If Jacob wins, he gets to leave the Island and wreck havok on the world. Jacob believes in the inherent good of man, MiB thinks everyone is corruptible. To play this game, they lure certain people to the Island. If MiB can corrupt all of them, he goes free. If one person remains virtuous, Jacob wins.

The chosen game pieces cannot be killed by MiB. Others (like the original pilot, the crew of the Black Rock, etc) are cannon fodder until they choose a side. People who choose Jacob are the Others, MiB's pieces are "infected."

The loophole MiB found is that, while a normal player cannot harm Jacob (as Richard was when he came to the Island), someone on Jacob's side can harm him, which is why Ben was able to kill him. Without Jacob around, it is much easier for MiB to manipulate the candidates. But its a desperate ploy for MiB, because without Jacob around, no new candidates can come to the Island. If MiB can't convince the remaining candidates to come with him, then he's stuck on the Island forever.

Am I onto something? Can anyone add to that, or confirm it?


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Philosofy said:


> Maybe some of you guys can help me flesh out a theory.
> 
> Jacob and MiB are engaged in a wager. If Jacob *[MiB?]* wins, he gets to leave the Island and wreck havok on the world. Jacob believes in the inherent good of man, MiB thinks everyone is corruptible. To play this game, they lure certain people to the Island. If MiB can corrupt all of them, he goes free. If one person remains virtuous, Jacob wins.
> 
> ...


FYP (I think).

Somewhat interesting theory - maybe we'll find out at the end the whole show was a video game Aaron has been playing against Jin and Sun's kid!

I don't think MiB intends to take the candidates with him - I think he just wants to kill them. Jacob said in two different scenes that if MiB succeeded in killing him, someone else would just replace him (presumably, a "candidate"). MiB both times replied that he would kill them too.

It seems logical that the same rules that apply to killing Jacob apply to the candidates - i.e., MiB/Smokey needs someone else to do it (from Jacob's side?) of their own free will. (And it's entirely possible that for some reason he needs one specific person -- Ben -- to do it. Perhaps Ben has a special status in the "game.") Ergo, I think MiB/Smokey is just collecting all the candidates in one place so he can manipulate someone else to kill them.


----------



## jtonra (Oct 19, 2001)

latrobe7 said:


> This has been bugging me since it was first mentioned to Sawyer by Locke. That just seems ridiculous to me. I mean, is that even possible - for a commercial airliner to take off without an 'real' runway? Carving out a runway that would be good enough for an emergency landing is one thing, but taking off? Seems to me that a jet airliner is going to need a long, smooth, paved surface in order to get up to speed, not a dirt landing strip.
> 
> I don't know that much about planes, admittedly. Does anyone think this would even be remotely possible? The stock response on things like this is: "C'mon, it's LOST! You can accept all these absurd things but the plane is the detail you can't buy". I guess it's as possible as time-travel, right?


Assuming for a moment that it _can _get off the ground, I'm more interested in how they're' going to get it either turned around or backed up to the other end of the runway.


----------



## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

Philosofy said:


> ...Without Jacob around, it is much easier for MiB to manipulate the candidates. But its a desperate ploy for MiB, because without Jacob around, no new candidates can come to the Island. If MiB can't convince the remaining candidates to come with him, then he's stuck on the Island forever. ...


Forever? Or until the remaining candidates die off?


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

gchance said:


> From now on though, we can no longer call Desmond by his name. He's "The Package".


With that moniker, he'll be a natural for the next season of "Jersey Shore."


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

ElJay said:


> Sun knows English in the flash sideways world, but her keeping it initially hidden from Jin seems to be common to both timelines (IIRC).





ElJay said:


> I thought it was made pretty obvious in the airport scenes when the character was introduced during the flash-sideways. Or am I imagining things?


They played that scene that way intentionally, because at the time it aired, we didn't know that things in the alt-verse were so different. So they filmed it in such a way that made the viewer think, "Oh, she definitely understands but she's playing dumb," but then as the scene (and the show) progressed we were supposed to realize that this was one of the differences in the alt-verse, that Sun had never taken English lessons from Jae, because she'd never been disillusioned with Jin.


Rob Helmerichs said:


> Since they told us he was coming ("Doesn't that Russian guy Mikhail speak Korean? Go get him" or something like that), I was ready for him and recognized him instantly.


This.


MonsterJoe said:


> It was irritating how much paper Sun was wasting. A whole page for "Yes"? "Sorry "
> 
> arghhhhhhhhh


My thoughts exactly. She's going to run out of paper before they get done "talking." But what I didn't get was why earlier in the day, when she could only talk Korean, why didn't she try to spell something out in the sand with a stick?


crazywater said:


> Also whats up with Keamey's concern for Jin's head injury?


At that point, Keamey is relying on Sun to get the money so he can off Jin. Until he gets the money, he wants Sun to believe that he's just a nice guy who doesn't mean either of them any harm.


hefe said:


> Not-Locke told Claire that her name was not written in the cave, but I'm pretty sure "Littleton" was there. Of course, that could mean Aaron.


But if UnLocke can differentiate between the two Littletons, why couldn't he differentiate between the two Kwons?


JYoung said:


> Are there no other boats available now (2007) other than the outriggers?


What ever happened to Desmond's boat? I can't remember.


DUDE_NJX said:


> So, if Keamy works for Paik, and in some reality he works for Whidmore... does it mean Paik and Whidmore are working together?


Didn't we see a scene in the flash forward season where Sun approached Widmore on behalf of her father? Haven't we seen that there is a Paik/Widmore connection before?


dianebrat said:


> That scene really bugged me since Jack understood Korean and was translating for her earlier, I understand wanting to know if she could write in English so others could understand, but after that she could have easily and quickly conversed with Jack in Korean.
> 
> Diane


I don't remember Jack ever being able to speak Korean.


Jeeters said:


> I forget how the money was confiscated (was it in the box), but perhaps it was supposed to be hidden in the watch box some how such that an inspector should normally not find it? i.e., all the watch deliveries he'd been making were actually just money drops?


There's no way that $25K fits in that box. Jin just didn't know he was supposed to hide the money. If he had, it would have been fairly easy for him to put $9k in his bags, $9k in Sun's bag, and stuff the remaining $7k in their checked luggage. It's not foolproof, but it would have made detection much less likely.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

hefe said:


> I don't understand how moving plot elements into position is filler. It's "answers" or nothing? Nah, it's a good story, and I have patience. I grew up reading Stephen King, for cryin' out loud!


This.

This.

A thousand times...

This.


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

One other major question to me is how is it decided which of the candidates takes over the role of Jacob/island keeper (if indeed that's what they are candidates for), and how does that transition occur exactly?

I suppose it's possible that it's the one that proves humankind is virtuous, but then what happens if none of the remaining candidates does (and knowing who at least most of the candidates are, I've got my doubts)?

What if the candidate that takes over is simply the last one that is alive? And for MiB to keep a candidate from taking over, he needs any remaining candidates to be killed *simultaneously*? His recruitment/collection of the remaining candidates may just be part of a plot to gather them together and have them be killed simultaneously.

[Edit: To be consistent with the above, then there would have to be a rule that MiB cannot leave the island as long as there's a candidate alive.]


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> . She's going to run out of paper before they get done "talking." But what I didn't get was why earlier in the day, when she could only talk Korean, why didn't she try to spell something out in the sand with a stick?


Why? Because then we could not have had the tender scene where Saint Jack the hero uses his vast medical experience to help Jin who'd previously and literally given him the cold shoulder.

Good points.


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> She's going to run out of paper before they get done "talking." But what I didn't get was why earlier in the day, when she could only talk Korean, why didn't she try to spell something out in the sand with a stick?


Simple. She didn't know she could, or didn't think of trying.

Why even nitpick on a thing like that?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Peter000 said:


> Simple. She didn't know she could, or didn't think of trying.
> 
> Why even nitpick on a thing like that?


Only because I thought of it while they were trying to ask her questions and it seemed so obvious, and then later when Jack used the pad and acted like it was some genius revelation I just thought that was really dumb.


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Near the end of the thread for last week's episode, I described how my wife, a very smart woman who absolutely loved the first two seasons of Lost, was now just going through the motions of watching because the show had gotten too convoluted and had too many science fiction elements for her taste.

Just to illustrate, when Jin was put into the refrigerated room, I said something like "Sayid to the rescue!", and after Sayid actually broke into the room, my wife looked at me with mouth agape and said "how did you know that was going to be Sayid?"


----------



## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

Not much to add for comments on this episode, except that the button scene was probably the most erotic moment in this entire series.

Also, I realized the other day that the Numbers aren't significant unto themselves. Jacob merely made people have bad lives when connected to the Numbers in order to get Hurley on Flight 815.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Speaking of the numbers, did anyone mention that Sun was in room 842 at the hotel?


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

jtonra said:


> Assuming for a moment that it _can _get off the ground, I'm more interested in how they're' going to get it either turned around or backed up to the other end of the runway.


Locke can use the Force, like he did when unshackling Ben while he was digging his own grave. How DID he do that, again?


----------



## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> At that point, Keamey is relying on Sun to get the money so he can off Jin. Until he gets the money, he wants Sun to believe that he's just a nice guy who doesn't mean either of them any harm.


Or he doesn't want Jin bruised when he stages his death. But he was definitely trying to play the "nice guy" part, too.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Honora said:


> I'm getting the feeling that the reason Smokey can't leave now that Jacob is dead is that there are candidates on the island. If he can get them all to go with him (willingly?), or he kills them all, he can leave. As long as one of them is on the island alive, he can't go anywhere.





peitsche said:


> here's my wife's theory:
> 
> Aaron is the candidate, and he will be the key to saving the island.
> 
> ...


I wonder if Smokey was killing fetuses so there won't be a new generation of candidates? The trouble with Aaron being it is how are they going to get him back there? And why would they? It would explain Locke being so nice to Claire.

Well if MiB says Kate is no longer a candidate, then that must be true. 
Maybe she's the one who has the best chance of taking over and he's trying to hide that fact. On the other hand, Claire shouldn't be able to kill her if she's a candidate if the rule is only one of Jacob's own can do it.

What about the 3 years from 2004 to 2007? Were there any candidates on the island then? I guess he couldn't leave then because Jacob was still alive. So if he could have just brought Locke's body and Ben back and none of the others, he'd be home free. 



thenightfly42 said:


> Also, I realized the other day that the Numbers aren't significant unto themselves. Jacob merely made people have bad lives when connected to the Numbers in order to get Hurley on Flight 815.


So he killed Grandpa and all those people on the deck thing just to get Hurley on a plane? And this is our hero?

So who picks the candidates? Are there qualifications? Can anyone who stumbles onto the island and meets the criteria be it, or just people Jacob or Jacob and MiB together have picked? And how do you stop being a candidate like Kate has? Just by staying in Locke's camp for a couple nights, is she his forever? Or is it something she did.

Also, if Jacob and/or MiB pick the candidates, why doesn't MiB know which Kwon it is? Why doesn't Alana know? If I'm telling someone to protect 6 people to save the world, I'm giving first and last names and ss#'s if I know them.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

jradford said:


> Or he doesn't want Jin bruised when he stages his death. But he was definitely trying to play the "nice guy" part, too.


That's alternate LA Keamey's style. Remember him being chummy and offering Sayid some eggs? Just before my man Sayid went all commando and poped a cap in his gut.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> What about the 3 years from 2004 to 2007? Were there any candidates on the island then? I guess he couldn't leave then because Jacob was still alive. So if he could have just brought Locke's body and Ben back and none of the others, he'd be home free.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7855780#post7855780


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Doubt it was MiB killing babies if MiB couldn't get through the sonic fence at camp Otherton where they were delivering the babies.


----------



## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

so Ben worked for Jacob, but he could "summon" Smokey when necessary.


I just don't get it....


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

goMO said:


> so Ben worked for Jacob, but he could "summon" Smokey when necessary.
> 
> I just don't get it....


When did Ben summon Smokey?


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Peter000 said:


> When did Ben summon Smokey?


To kill Keamey. (Who, by the way, broke a "rule" when he killed Alex. I wonder if we'll find out what that's all about).

I wonder where Ben was getting his orders all this time. Was the chain of command really Jacob -> Richard -> Ben? If so, why did he think Jacob was in the cabin?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

goMO said:


> so Ben worked for Jacob, but he could "summon" Smokey when necessary.
> 
> I just don't get it....


I'm not so sure he summoned Smokey, so much as just stopped keeping it out...


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm not so sure he summoned Smokey, so much as just stopped keeping it out...


Yeah, I think he just took down the sonic fence so Smokey could get in. He didn't exactly "summon" it.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

aindik said:


> I wonder where Ben was getting his orders all this time. Was the chain of command really Jacob -> Richard -> Ben? If so, why did he think Jacob was in the cabin?


I don't think that will be answered.

Who was kept in the cabin?


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Ben must have known that Smokey wanted Keamy gone as much as he did. Otherwise it would have been pretty dangerous to just let him free in Dharmaville.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

stellie93 said:


> Ben must have known that Smokey wanted Keamy gone as much as he did. Otherwise it would have been pretty dangerous to just let him free in Dharmaville.


Then again, I'm not sure how clearly he was thinking at that point beyond "DIE DIE DIE"...


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> Ben must have known that Smokey wanted Keamy gone as much as he did. Otherwise it would have been pretty dangerous to just let him free in Dharmaville.


I don't think Ben has any idea what Smokey is other than what MIB, in the form of John Locke, told him right after he killed Jacob. Which isn't very much.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

So really, how DID unLocke manage to break Ben free?


----------



## rkallerud (Feb 24, 2003)

Here's some wild speculation that might be able to be easily disproved, and is probably too crazy to be true.

Is it possible that Desmond is a "constant" between both the "main" world and the "sideways" world and his consciousness jumps back and forth between them? That there is only one Desmond that exists "simultaneously" in both timelines?

Is it possible that Desmond's jumping in time back in season 5 actually represents the first flash-sideways presented in the show? That he was jumping between worlds all the way back then? I don't recall all the details of the episodeis there anything from that episode that would immediately rule this out?

If this is the case, it could also be when the split in time occurred. Not the bomb. Not the "incident" (whatever that was). But Desmond becoming "unstuck" in time.

Now my head hurts...


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> That scene really bugged me since Jack understood Korean and was translating for her earlier, I understand wanting to know if she could write in English so others could understand, but after that she could have easily and quickly conversed with Jack in Korean





aindik said:


> Where did you get the idea that Jack understood Korean?





DevdogAZ said:


> I don't remember Jack ever being able to speak Korean.


my bad.. flooded basement and stress over it.. I'm right outside Boston..

I also glossed over where Jack learned Korean, but figured it was on his travels, however in thinking about Jin and his Korean in the beginning of the show, it's obvious now that I'm actually using braincells that Jack didn't speak Korean.

I just rewatched the scene to see why I would have thought that and in my only 1/2 a brain functioning status, Jacks one sided conversation could have looked a lot like he understood, but then when she's ranting at Richard I saw Jack with the shrug of "heck if I know what she's so excited about"

Diane


----------



## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

> Originally Posted by hefe View Post
> I don't understand how moving plot elements into position is filler. It's "answers" or nothing? Nah, it's a good story, and I have patience. I grew up reading Stephen King, for cryin' out loud!


+ a billion. I stopped going on IMDB because I can't stand all the complaints like this. Would you read half a book then ***** because it sucked? Or leave a movie after 45 minutes then complain it sucked? How people can be in the sixth season of this show and still not realize that you have to wait until EVERYTHING airs before deeming stuff pointless is beyond me. Let them build the damn story for christ's sake!



> What if the candidate that takes over is simply the last one that is alive? And for MiB to keep a candidate from taking over, he needs any remaining candidates to be killed simultaneously? His recruitment/collection of the remaining candidates may just be part of a plot to gather them together and have them be killed simultaneously.


I think the first part is right (last one alive) but I don't think he has to kill them all simultenously--that would be too contrived I think. Who determines how many there have to be left for him to do it at once, etc. Too many rules. I personally think there are 108 candidates, and overtime Jacob facilitates events in their lives to bring them to the island. The last one left is the one it's supposed to be--he just doesn't know who that is until it happens.

I also agree with the comments about the Ajira flight being their way off. Every time a character mentions it I seriously cringe because that even being a discussion is a MAJOR stain on an otherwise great story. Now that they've mentioned it twice it seems to me that it is ACTUALLY their goal and it makes me want to punch my TV.

Assuming the plane even works, how will they get it turned around and on the runway, and where are they getting the actual runway space they'll need to take off. Unless the plan is for Mib to simply lift it into the air and throw it, I just don't get it. I wish at least ONE character would say "Um, this makes no sense" and then MiB can explain whatever the plan is. But no one even questions. Let alone the fact that no one in his camp has any clue how to fly a commercial jet.

I'm not gonna harp on (more) but it's bothering me.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

I think too many people were expecting this season to just be some sort of answer sheet for the previous season.


----------



## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

Was there any significance to ONE LONE TOMATO that would not die with the others?

And it seemed, well, perfect, unblemished.

I loved the Lapidus' line, "Don't talk about bacon!" He gets some of the best comments.


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

mrdazzo7 said:


> I think the first part is right (last one alive) but I don't think he has to kill them all simultenously--that would be too contrived I think.


Or, as Sawyer would put it, "THAT would be RIDICULOUS."



mrdazzo7 said:


> Who determines how many there have to be left for him to do it at once, etc. Too many rules. I personally think there are 108 candidates, and over time Jacob facilitates events in their lives to bring them to the island. The last one left is the one it's supposed to be--he just doesn't know who that is until it happens.


There doesn't have to be a rule on how many there have to be left, just as long as there's never just one alive ... he could kill the last 2 together, the last 5, the last 40. But he wouldn't want to kill them off one-by-one once the number remaining got small, lest something happen and he ends up with only one alive; he'd be better off trying to take out some moderate number - say, the last 6 of them - all in one fell swoop.



mrdazzo7 said:


> Assuming the plane even works, how will they get it turned around and on the runway, and where are they getting the actual runway space they'll need to take off.


Don't know about runway space.

I'm no expert, and maybe I'm missing something about the difficulty of turning it around, but in my experience planes are typically rather adept at turning around .... you basically just roll the thing around by the nose wheel.

E.g., the C5, which is just about the biggest mother of an airplane on the planet, has a ground turning radius of just 22.1 meters. http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/c5/

And here's a video of a small plane showing its tight ground turning radius:


----------



## bellvis (Aug 1, 2000)

philw1776 said:


> Zombayid, a man without a soul?
> 
> Those few who were wondering who's evil have to deal with unLocke's statement to wacko Claire that after Kate helps him in his goal to escape "Whatever happens, happens"


Does anyone really think MIB will keep his word to help "his" people off the island?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

aindik said:


> I don't think Ben has any idea what Smokey is other than what MIB, in the form of John Locke, told him right after he killed Jacob. Which isn't very much.


So your theory is that Ben spent 30+ years on the Island, lived in a compound surrounded by sonic pylons to keep Smokey out, was enticed to kill his father and the entire Dharma Initiative, was the leader of The Others, received counsel from Richard, has a secret tunnel in his house, knows about the Donkey Wheel, etc., etc., etc., yet doesn't have any idea what Smokey is other than what he learned within the last few days (of story time)?


vertigo235 said:


> I think too many people were expecting this season to just be some sort of answer sheet for the previous season.


This. It's frustrating to listen to people who don't have any patience for the story rant and rave about how there's still too many unanswered questions, etc. Did people really expect that we'd find out what was going on before the series finale? I just can't figure out that line of thinking. Mystery novels don't give away their endings until the end. The Sixth Sense didn't reveal the major plot twist until the end. Just because they're still stringing us along story-wise does not mean they don't know where it's going. It just means they don't want to get there too soon.


----------



## bellvis (Aug 1, 2000)

SeanC said:


> I thought it was a bit weak that they sent the money with Jin when it would seem smart people like Jin's boss would know that the money would be confiscated at the border....
> 
> That just seemed out of place.


Not if Paik wants to cross or rid himself of Keamy as well. Mr. Paik withdrew Sun's funds, ensuring that Jin wouldn't be able to pay Keamy.


----------



## jdfs (Oct 21, 2002)

Maybe this is obvious to everyone but it looks like Flocke needs to be sure there is no protector for the island so he needs to gather all possible candidates with him. I suppose that will let him be able to leave. It seams being a protector of the island is also a protector of the world, since the two are intertwined. He can't just kill them because at least the actual protector would be immune, not sure if all candidates are immune, but possibly. Otherwise he should have just killed each one to see who the final one is.


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

dianebrat said:


> my bad.. flooded basement and stress over it.. I'm right outside Boston..
> 
> I also glossed over where Jack learned Korean, but figured it was on his travels, however in thinking about Jin and his Korean in the beginning of the show, it's obvious now that I'm actually using braincells that Jack didn't speak Korean.
> 
> ...


Maybe you were thinking he picked up Thai when vacationing there?


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

orangeboy said:


> Maybe you were thinking he picked up Thai when vacationing there?


 EXACTLY what my 1/2 operational brain thought last night, however he would have been able to talk to Jin in the first season when Jin only spoke Korean and was still learning English..

that darn continuity!


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Stephen Colbert mocked last night's V countdown clock tonight on his show. :up:


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

gchance said:


> Not to mention Sawyer & Flocke...
> 
> Sawyer: "Why don't you just change into a puff of smoke and go over there yourself?"
> Flocke: "Do you think that if I could do that I'd still be on this island?"
> Sawyer: "Because THAT would be RIDICULOUS."


I laughed out loud a that one. LOL!



peitsche said:


> here's my wife's theory:
> 
> Aaron is the candidate, and he will be the key to saving the island... <snip>


I like your wife's theory! :up:


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

MickeS said:


> So really, how DID unLocke manage to break Ben free?


I will ask for a third time. Does anyone have a theory on this? Has it been explained but I missed it? It has bugged me ever since I saw it.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I think that Ben may not know exactly what Smokey is, but he knows enough about Smokey to understand how he (Smokey) picks his victims. It does seem to have to do with killers: I'm sure Ben understands enough to be confident that if he let in Smokey after Keamey killed Alex, that Keamey would be the next to go.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

MickeS said:


> I will ask for a third time. Does anyone have a theory on this? Has it been explained but I missed it? It has bugged me ever since I saw it.


The man turns into black smoke and flies around the Island.
I don't know why him/it exhibiting some minor telekinesis bothers you.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

It bugs me because it would have been very convenient to use it in several other situations. For example, when turning off pylons.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Bananfish said:


> There doesn't have to be a rule on how many there have to be left, just as long as there's never just one alive ... he could kill the last 2 together, the last 5, the last 40. But he wouldn't want to kill them off one-by-one once the number remaining got small, lest something happen and he ends up with only one alive; he'd be better off trying to take out some moderate number - say, the last 6 of them - all in one fell swoop.
> 
> Don't know about runway space.
> 
> ...


You can't just push on an airplane's nose and turn it. There are lots of problems here. First off, it's highly unlikely that the tires are all up and undamaged - on flat tires, it will be damn near impossible to turn. And that assumes that the landing gear haven't been damaged by the rough landing. And lastly, the weight effect of the plane on the dirt is vastly different than being on a runway. There are reasons why we used C-130s on rough runways and C-5s stayed on regular runways. And remember, your C-5 22m turning radius doesn't take into account that the wings will be making a much wider trip during that 180 degree turn.

Secondly, the damage the aircraft took seems minimal but it could be very significant. The leading edge of the wings took major impacts (we saw the dents with Sawyer), and would likely take more "clearing trees" on takeoff. We weren't given a good shot of the tail and back structure, but chances are the wings took the brunt. Except for one thing: the cockpit. The cockpit has got a great big hole in it from when the tree came through and killed the co-pilot. It will be impossible for someone to pilot the plane, sans windshield, at 250 - 400mph. Not to mention it won't fly high if they have air pressurization issues. God only knows what went in the engines. And there's probably no more Bud Light in the refreshment carts.

And Smokey don't got a pilot. And if Ricardo gets over there to Hydra, he won't have a plane neither.  We didn't get Frank's reaction to trying to fly the Ajira plane again. That ought to be priceless.

My feeling is that the plane attempt is either simply a head fake to get everyone Smokey needs together - I mean, did he have to wait hundreds of years until jet aircraft were invented for a way off the island? - or he intends for the plane to crash with the candidates on board.



jdfs said:


> Maybe this is obvious to everyone but it looks like Flocke needs to be sure there is no protector for the island so he needs to gather all possible candidates with him. I suppose that will let him be able to leave. It seams being a protector of the island is also a protector of the world, since the two are intertwined. He can't just kill them because at least the actual protector would be immune, not sure if all candidates are immune, but possibly. Otherwise he should have just killed each one to see who the final one is.


MIB said he needed 3 more people on his team before they could leave, which I assume to mean candidates. So, as long as there are candidates left on the island MIB can't leave. There sure are a lot of rules.

Makes you wonder who is on the Candidate Selection Committee. And who pins the lucky candidate with the Jacob Replacement Medal.


----------



## Roadblock (Apr 5, 2006)

Scubee said:


> Could someone in that camp not remind Claire how to use some water to wash her face? And for some reason, the Tina Fey character REALLY gets on my nerves. I'm not sure if it's the acting or the character itself. Wish she'd go away.





DUDE_NJX said:


> The Tinafeyesque person is a horrible actress.


Wow, leave Tina Fey alone already, it's not her!



hefe said:


> Not-Locke told Claire that her name was not written in the cave, but I'm pretty sure "Littleton" was there. Of course, that could mean Aaron.


Littleton was there, but crossed out. Lostpedia's candidate page is here: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Candidates



Scubee said:


> Glad you reminded me of that. If Keamey was going to kill him, why does he care if he has a bump on his head? I didn't get it at the time, but the thought was lost within my questions regarding the rest of the episode. Seems like I'm nit-picking but it seemed strangely out of place.


I took that as just concern about being messy, leaving Jin's DNA on the door or in the room, etc.



danterner said:


> I'm pretty sure that, the way the dialog went, it was:
> 
> Q: Is Kate a candidate?
> A: Not anymore.
> ...


LOCKE: No, Claire... it isn't. Not anymore. But I need Kate.
CLAIRE: Why?
LOCKE: Because I'm three people shy of getting off this island and Kate can help me get those people on the plane. But... once she does... then whatever happens, happens.



aindik said:


> The money was confiscated at the border because Jin didn't declare it at customs. Maybe he was supposed to declare it.
> 
> But what was the point of the watch? Keamy didn't seem to be expecting it. It didn't seem to have a point, other than to have Keamy say "this watch...." in his best Christopher Walken.


No point to the watch, just a distraction for Jin. A bonus from the boss for Keamy.



latrobe7 said:


> This has been bugging me since it was first mentioned to Sawyer by Locke. That just seems ridiculous to me. I mean, is that even possible - for a commercial airliner to take off without an 'real' runway? Carving out a runway that would be good enough for an emergency landing is one thing, but taking off? Seems to me that a jet airliner is going to need a long, smooth, paved surface in order to get up to speed, not a dirt landing strip.
> 
> I don't know that much about planes, admittedly. Does anyone think this would even be remotely possible? The stock response on things like this is: "C'mon, it's LOST! You can accept all these absurd things but the plane is the detail you can't buy". I guess it's as possible as time-travel, right?


Seems unlikely they have enough room to get the plane turned around, back to the end of the runway, and in decent shape to fly but yes, it's a TV show, so who knows. They'd need at least a few thousand feet of runway to take off (3000?)



aindik said:


> And why didn't he turn into black smoke when he went to chase Sun? And after she banged her head, why didn't he take her with him?
> 
> That last one probably has to do with a requirement that if he take a candidate, it be of the candidate's own free will.


I think you answered your own questions.



danterner said:


> I agree this is probably why he didn't. But now I'm wondering -- was Locke (while alive) ever a candidate? Did we see his name on the list, crossed off? Because wasn't there a scene in the first season or so where Smokey is pulling Locke by the leg down into a hole in the ground? I don't think Locke was being pulled willingly.


Locke was on the list. MIB crossed him off.



SugarBowl said:


> Why didn't he just fill out the paperwork to get the 25 grand back?


Because he'd probably have to wait days/weeks to get it back, if he could.



stellie93 said:


> Well if MiB says Kate is no longer a candidate, then that must be true.
> Maybe she's the one who has the best chance of taking over and he's trying to hide that fact. On the other hand, Claire shouldn't be able to kill her if she's a candidate if the rule is only one of Jacob's own can do it.
> 
> Also, if Jacob and/or MiB pick the candidates, why doesn't MiB know which Kwon it is? Why doesn't Alana know? If I'm telling someone to protect 6 people to save the world, I'm giving first and last names and ss#'s if I know them.


From lostpedia:

"The name 'Austen' was not seen in the cave, but was later seen in the Lighthouse, not crossed out. Carlton Cuse said in an interview that Kate's name was on the cave wall and crossed out, but regrettably did not make the final edit."



DevdogAZ said:


> This. It's frustrating to listen to people who don't have any patience for the story rant and rave about how there's still too many unanswered questions, etc. Did people really expect that we'd find out what was going on before the series finale? I just can't figure out that line of thinking. Mystery novels don't give away their endings until the end. The Sixth Sense didn't reveal the major plot twist until the end. Just because they're still stringing us along story-wise does not mean they don't know where it's going. It just means they don't want to get there too soon.


Well, there are only a few episodes remaining. I think it's more that people feel like there are too many questions left for one 2-hour episode to answer, so we are hoping that more gets answered before the finale. I think they're doing alright so far.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Haven't seen the episode, haven't read too much yet, but I am wondering, are they still re-running the previous week's episode each week? If so, maybe I'm better off to wait a week and watch two next week. Surely, that V crap won't still be on?


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

mrdazzo7 said:


> + a billion. I stopped going on IMDB because I can't stand all the complaints like this. Would you read half a book then ***** because it sucked? Or leave a movie after 45 minutes then complain it sucked? How people can be in the sixth season of this show and still not realize that you have to wait until EVERYTHING airs before deeming stuff pointless is beyond me. Let them build the damn story for christ's sake!


Yes, I would ***** if I read half a book and it sucked.

Yes, I would say a movie sucked if it sucked for 45 minutes.

I've read about two quotes in this thread that could be taken as negative, one of them mine. That's two out of two hundred posts. Why do some people get so bent out of shape because a small minority of people has a different opinion than they do?


----------



## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

wprager said:


> Haven't seen the episode, haven't read too much yet, but I am wondering, are they still re-running the previous week's episode each week? If so, maybe I'm better off to wait a week and watch two next week. Surely, that V crap won't still be on?


No. DWTS Results show is running in the 8/7CT time slow now.


----------



## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

crazywater said:


> And Sun's looking at herself in the mirror as if she is remembering something?


I simply took this to mean that she was checking for any stray straw that might be left from her romp with Jin before she answered the door.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

wprager said:


> Haven't seen the episode, haven't read too much yet, but I am wondering, are they still re-running the previous week's episode each week? If so, maybe I'm better off to wait a week and watch two next week. Surely, that V crap won't still be on?


V is actually pretty good, despite ABC's scummy way of advertising it.


----------



## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

bellvis said:


> Not if Paik wants to cross or rid himself of Keamy as well. Mr. Paik withdrew Sun's funds, ensuring that Jin wouldn't be able to pay Keamy.


I think Mr. Paik closed Sun's account so she and Jin couldn't run away. He wanted Jin to be able to pay Keamy to get rid of the dishonorable man who was sleeping with his daughter.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> So your theory is that Ben spent 30+ years on the Island, lived in a compound surrounded by sonic pylons to keep Smokey out, was enticed to kill his father and the entire Dharma Initiative, was the leader of The Others, received counsel from Richard, has a secret tunnel in his house, knows about the Donkey Wheel, etc., etc., etc., yet doesn't have any idea what Smokey is other than what he learned within the last few days (of story time)?


When he came back to the island to "be judged," he "summoned" the smoke monster to judge him. He also had no idea that when dead Alex visited him, that dead Alex was the smoke monster. He thinks the smoke monster is the island's agent/protector. He has no idea that the smoke monster is Jacob's enemy. He doesn't know who the Man in Black is.

When he asked MIBLocke "what ARE you," he seemed quite serious. Do you think he knows that the smoke monster is the evil that must be kept on the island to save the world?

He also went 30 years on the island following the commands of Jacob without ever having met Jacob or heard the commands from him.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> Yes, I would ***** if I read half a book and it sucked.
> 
> Yes, I would say a movie sucked if it sucked for 45 minutes.
> 
> I've read about two quotes in this thread that could be taken as negative, one of them mine. That's two out of two hundred posts. Why do some people get so bent out of shape because a small minority of people has a different opinion than they do?


Suckage is different than getting all the answers. I'd complain if I thought it sucked too. (Heroes, anyone?)

The basis for the opinion didn't make sense to me so I expressed my opinion in that regard. I don't consider that getting bent out of shape. I assure you, my shape has remained quite consistent.


----------



## tgrim1 (Sep 11, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm not so sure he summoned Smokey, so much as just stopped keeping it out...


Since Ben drained water out of whatever that thing was and MIB can't cross water, this makes sense to me.


Bananfish said:


> I'm no expert, and maybe I'm missing something about the difficulty of turning it around, but in my experience planes are typically rather adept at turning around .... you basically just roll the thing around by the nose wheel.


Although that is on ~12inches of concrete, not beach sand



MickeS said:


> I will ask for a third time. Does anyone have a theory on this? Has it been explained but I missed it? It has bugged me ever since I saw it.


Maybe a part of him turned to smoke too dispersed for us to see and opened the shackle?


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

So why is Jin's signature on the energy-pockets map? Or was that just a ruse?


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

sushikitten said:


> So why is Jin's signature on the energy-pockets map? Or was that just a ruse?


Remember? He was in the Dharma initiative. Sawyer had him searching the entire island grid by grid looking for the other 815 survivors.


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> Remember? He was in the Dharma initiative. Sawyer had him searching the entire island grid by grid looking for the other 815 survivors.


Ahhhh. From the 1970s. I forget too quickly and easily.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Paperboy2003 said:


> something tells me that he won't be having a very good day......


Well, here's the thing.

The V bug was hyper-annoying. I was flabbergasted.

However, it didn't make me stop watching LOST. And if I liked V already I wouldn't have stopped watching V because of the bug.

But if I didn't know about V, now I do. Without a doubt.

So perhaps it worked.

Yes, today will suck. But it's one day. Let's see what the ratings for V were before we decide it was the wrong decision.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

MonsterJoe said:


> It was irritating how much paper Sun was wasting. A whole page for "Yes"? "Sorry "
> 
> arghhhhhhhhh


My thoughts exactly.

Sheesh Sun, there aren't notepad trees on this island. Yikes.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

tgrim1 said:


> Although that is on ~12inches of concrete, not beach sand


Well, the runway wasn't made on the beach, but yeah, it's not concrete either.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

uncdrew said:


> My thoughts exactly.
> 
> Sheesh Sun, there aren't notepad trees on this island. Yikes.


You do realize that we, the viewers, had to be able to read it, right?


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Again, as was said, even when blocked by a large red V!


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

aindik said:


> When he came back to the island to "be judged," he "summoned" the smoke monster to judge him. He also had no idea that when dead Alex visited him, that dead Alex was the smoke monster. He thinks the smoke monster is the island's agent/protector. He has no idea that the smoke monster is Jacob's enemy. He doesn't know who the Man in Black is.
> 
> When he asked MIBLocke "what ARE you," he seemed quite serious. Do you think he knows that the smoke monster is the evil that must be kept on the island to save the world?
> 
> He also went 30 years on the island following the commands of Jacob without ever having met Jacob or heard the commands from him.


One of the more intriguing transformations is our, the viewers', perspective of Ben. For several seasons we saw Ben as powerfull, manipulative and all knowing, the smug secretive key to answers to many of the islands' questions. Then, after murdering Locke, Ben returns to the island. Suddenly, with the emergence of unLocke/MiB we see Ben easily manipulated into killing his icon Jacob and now we understand that gelded Ben doesn't know Jack, never did. And I don't mean Saint Jack.


----------



## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

So is Kate 'no longer' a candidate because Fake Locke succeeded in corrupting her at some point? Which action of Kate's makes her more corrupted than, say, Jack?

Edit: Oh, and one more thing. I always had this issue rattling around in my head about why the Others were building that runway. I thought, how did they know!? I just realized (seriously), that Jacob told them to build it so he could bring that plane in. Although, this makes me think, why didn't he do the same for 815? Maybe he learned his lesson - crash landings kill too many people.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mostman said:


> Edit: Oh, and one more thing. I always had this issue rattling around in my head about why the Others were building that runway. I thought, how did they know!? I just realized (seriously), that Jacob told them to build it so he could bring that plane in. Although, this makes me think, why didn't he do the same for 815? Maybe he learned his lesson - crash landings kill too many people.


I don't think Jacob "brought" 815 in...that was a result of the button not being pushed. If anything, I think he just tweaked reality so the right people would be on it when it crashed.

And I don't think Jacob told the Others to build the runway...they were listening to Ben, to whom Jacob never spoke. Which, of course, raises the question of where Ben got the idea to build the runway..?


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

MickeS said:


> It bugs me because it would have been very convenient to use it in several other situations. For example, when turning off pylons.


He doesn't know the combination.



uncdrew said:


> Yes, today will suck. But it's one day. Let's see what the ratings for V were before we decide it was the wrong decision.


TV By the Numbers estimates a 2.9 for V, so not stellar.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> And I don't think Jacob told the Others to build the runway...they were listening to Ben, to whom Jacob never spoke. Which, of course, raises the question of where Ben got the idea to build the runway..?


No I think MIB got a message to Ben as Jacob somehow to build the runway.


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> I've read about two quotes in this thread that could be taken as negative, one of them mine. That's two out of two hundred posts. Why do some people get so bent out of shape because a small minority of people has a different opinion than they do?


Because the small minority is WRONG!

J/K


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

JYoung said:


> No I think MIB got a message to Ben as Jacob somehow to build the runway.


The extent to which Ben was doing the bidding of MIB while thinking he was doing the bidding of Jacob is interesting to me, and as TB says they'll probably never explore it. How did Richard let Ben think MIB was Jacob for all these years?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

aindik said:


> The extent to which Ben was doing the bidding of MIB while thinking he was doing the bidding of Jacob is interesting to me, and as TB says they'll probably never explore it. How did Richard let Ben think MIB was Jacob for all these years?


He didn't!

From Ben's point of view, _he never saw Jacob_. He was faking it all along. So it couldn't have been MiB pretending to be Jacob, because then Ben would have had to think he was seeing Jacob. And he didn't.

Now, it's entirely possible that Richard was passing on Jacob's instructions. Or that Ben was getting information from some hitherto unknown source. But he was not talking to Jacob, nor to anybody pretending to be Jacob.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

ABC announces "Lost Series Finale Countdown Clock.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

philw1776 said:


> "The Package" is Desmond's? But how does Widmore know? Did daughter Penny reveal the salient details to her father?  Just what is so special about Desmond's 'package'. *Another unanswered LOST mystery.*


I don't see it as _another unanswered LOST mystery_. It's just the next step of the story. Which has another eight hours or so to play out.

Have faith, bruthah!


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Ya, Desmond's package is no mystery to anyone who watched him running around in the buck after the hatch imploded.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JYoung said:


> ABC announces "Lost Series Finale Countdown Clock.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

JYoung said:


> ABC announces "Lost Series Finale Countdown Clock.





> The only thing Lost fans like more than watching Lost is talking about Lost, and the talking they like most of all is complaining about Lost. This is a way for us to give the fans more of exactly what they want, said executive producer Carlton Cuse.
> Theyll have years to complain about all the unanswered questions and how much they hated how we ended the series. As a bonus, theyll also always have the memory of how the Countdown Clock, and particularly Kimmel, ruined the finale, Cuse said.


:up:


----------



## lpamelaa (May 3, 2004)

JYoung said:


> ABC announces "Lost Series Finale Countdown Clock.


Note the date - April 1

I think we've been punk'd.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> He didn't!
> 
> From Ben's point of view, _he never saw Jacob_. He was faking it all along. So it couldn't have been MiB pretending to be Jacob, because then Ben would have had to think he was seeing Jacob. And he didn't.
> 
> Now, it's entirely possible that Richard was passing on Jacob's instructions. Or that Ben was getting information from some hitherto unknown source. But he was not talking to Jacob, nor to anybody pretending to be Jacob.


I want to know how Richard let Ben do all the stuff Ben did. Either that stuff came from Jacob (which seems out of character for a protector of the world), or Richard flipped sides a long time ago (which can't be true based on last week's episode), or Jacob told Richard just let Ben do whatever he wanted with the mission of "save the island" (which I also would find hard to believe, considering how little faith Jacob had in Ben).


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

lpamelaa said:


> Note the date - April 1
> 
> I think we've been punk'd.


No way.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

5 days, 6 hours, 27 minutes, and 15 seconds left until the next episode!


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

The V countdown clock clearly was implemented by a MIB disciple.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

lpamelaa said:


> Note the date - April 1
> 
> I think we've been punk'd.


"ABC chief McPherson says, Dont tell me what I cant do." wasn't a tip off?


----------



## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

My favorite line:

"Once every 15 minutes during the finale, Jimmy Kimmel will show up in a large-ish picture-in-picture window in the lower right of your screen and announce how much time is left for Lost. During the final three minutes Kimmel will count down the last 180 seconds out loud."


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

astrohip said:


> I don't see it as _another unanswered LOST mystery_. It's just the next step of the story. Which has another eight hours or so to play out.
> 
> Have faith, bruthah!


It was a futile attempt at humor where I was referring to Desmond's 'package' in a salacious context.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> You do realize that we, the viewers, had to be able to read it, right?


Of course.

She could have easily crossed off "Yes" and put the next message below it. I think it's more realistic to cross off one message and write the next below it, as that's faster than turning the page (even if you aren't quite aware that you have one dinky notepad and have no idea when you'll speak again).


----------



## Waldorf (Oct 4, 2002)

Happy April 1st, everyone...

I figure this is as good a place as any for this:

Think Geek's "Dharma Initiative Alarm Clock"
http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/dharma-alarm-clock.shtml

The video is great.


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

aindik said:


> I want to know how Richard let Ben do all the stuff Ben did. Either that stuff came from Jacob (which seems out of character for a protector of the world), or Richard flipped sides a long time ago (which can't be true based on last week's episode), or Jacob told Richard just let Ben do whatever he wanted with the mission of "save the island" (which I also would find hard to believe, considering how little faith Jacob had in Ben).


Right before Ben killed Jacob, when he was getting himself all worked up to summon the courage to do it, he venomously spewed at Jacob about all the instructions Ben had carried out on all the scraps of paper that Jacob had given Richard to pass on to him.

Because only Ben, Jacob and MiB were there when Ben said this (in the foot statue), Ben would have no incentive to lie about it, and Jacob probably would have corrected Ben if he hadn't in fact given Richard a bunch of instructions to pass on to Ben.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the scraps were folded and Richard had instructions not too look at them - conservation of information is perhaps the #1 staple of Lost!


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Bananfish said:


> Right before Ben killed Jacob, when he was getting himself all worked up to summon the courage to do it, he venomously spewed at Jacob about all the instructions Ben had carried out on all the scraps of paper that Jacob had given Richard to pass on to him.
> 
> Because only Ben, Jacob and MiB were there when Ben said this (in the foot statue), Ben would have no incentive to lie about it, and Jacob probably would have corrected Ben if he hadn't in fact given Richard a bunch of instructions to pass on to Ben.
> 
> I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the scraps were folded and Richard had instructions not too look at them - conservation of information is perhaps the #1 staple of Lost!


Which would mean that Jacob actually told Ben to do all the stuff Ben did? And Jacob is the defender of the world from evil?

Jacob does seem to deal in scraps of paper. When he visited Ilana, he told her he was giving her a list of the candidates on paper. I think that's how we ended up with the mystery of who the Kwon candidate is.


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

aindik said:


> Which would mean that Jacob actually told Ben to do all the stuff Ben did? And Jacob is the defender of the world from evil?


As mentioned before, for Jacob the ends could justify the means ... if unleashing MiB on the world means all of mankind would be painfully tortured into infinity, having Ben kill a few folks and impose indignities on a few others is small potatoes if he needs Ben at some point for some reason to prevent that.



aindik said:


> Jacob does seem to deal in scraps of paper. When he visited Ilana, he told her he was giving her a list of the candidates on paper. I think that's how we ended up with the mystery of who the Kwon candidate is.


Maybe Jacob hit his head while running away from MiB and lost the ability to speak instructions, so now he has to write them in large letters on scraps of paper?


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

uncdrew said:


> Sheesh Sun, there aren't notepad trees on this island. Yikes.


Paper doesn't grow on trees .... wait a sec ...
Sharpie markers don't just grow on trees! 



mostman said:


> ... I always had this issue rattling around in my head about why the Others were building that runway. I thought, how did they know!? I just realized (seriously), that Jacob told them to build it so he could bring that plane in. Although, this makes me think, why didn't he do the same for 815? Maybe he learned his lesson - crash landings kill too many people.


Well, they would have needed to build a runway for the front half of the plane and another runway for the tail section of the plane. 



JYoung said:


> ABC announces "Lost Series Finale Countdown Clock.


Hilarious! April Fools! :up:


----------



## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I don't think Jacob "brought" 815 in...that was a result of the button not being pushed. If anything, I think he just tweaked reality so the right people would be on it when it crashed.


I agree that Jacob didn't actually bring down 815. That's been definitively shown to have been caused by the button not being pushed. However Jacob did admit to MiB that he brought the Black Rock to the island and, although I can't remember the circumstances exactly as I type this, I seem to remember something happening to 815 (a storm perhaps?) to cause it to turn back and be 1,000 miles off course. So perhaps Jacob had something to do with the plane at least getting to the island.


----------



## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

jking said:


> I agree that Jacob didn't actually bring down 815. That's been definitively shown to have been caused by the button not being pushed. However Jacob did admit to MiB that he brought the Black Rock to the island and, although I can't remember the circumstances exactly as I type this, I seem to remember something happening to 815 (a storm perhaps?) to cause it to turn back and be 1,000 miles off course. So perhaps Jacob had something to do with the plane at least getting to the island.


To take that a step further, then, Desmond is in a storm that brings him to an island, and because he didn't push the button...


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

JYoung said:


> But would he try for Widmore's sub since it's not within the perimeter of the Sonic Fence?
> (And has Widmore overlooked this?)


Since Smokey can't cross water, as long as the fence surrounds all land access to the sub, that's good enough protection from Smokey, if not his followers.



aindik said:


> Was it the Man in Black who told Richard to tell Locke how important it was to bring all six of his friends back to the island (and to die trying), or was it time traveling John Locke? If the former, why would he want to bring them all back, when now all he wants to do is convince them to leave?
> 
> And why is/was it so important that all six come back, if they're all just candidates for one job.


I think having the candidates together allows a special transition in and out of the island. And by Smokey taking the form of one of the candidates, that allows him to leave the island with the rest. Smokey needed them all back on the island so he could leave with them, but in order to leave with them he also needed Locke to die off of the island, and his body brought back so he could take its form.



DevdogAZ said:


> Only because I thought of it while they were trying to ask her questions and it seemed so obvious, and then later when Jack used the pad and acted like it was some genius revelation I just thought that was really dumb.


Has there ever been a time when you've thought to yourself, "Why didn't I think of that before?" Sometimes solutions that are obvious in hindsight aren't immediately thought of. If someone all of the suddenly can't speak a language that he or she knows, it might not immediately occur to anyone that writing would not be affected.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jking said:


> I agree that Jacob didn't actually bring down 815. That's been definitively shown to have been caused by the button not being pushed. However Jacob did admit to MiB that he brought the Black Rock to the island and, although I can't remember the circumstances exactly as I type this, I seem to remember something happening to 815 (a storm perhaps?) to cause it to turn back and be 1,000 miles off course. So perhaps Jacob had something to do with the plane at least getting to the island.


It wasn't a storm. IIRC, it was a malfunction of their navigation or communications equipment, so they had turned back to try and get to the nearest airport. That's why they were 1,000 miles off course when they crashed.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

BitbyBlit said:


> Since Smokey can't cross water, as long as the fence surrounds all land access to the sub, that's good enough protection from Smokey, if not his followers.


unLocke gets to Hydra Island via boat, and the submarine is obviously also in the water. The pylons are on the beach. So the sub should still be accessible via the water.



BitbyBlit said:


> I think having the candidates together allows a special transition in and out of the island. And by Smokey taking the form of one of the candidates, that allows him to leave the island with the rest.


Smokey/unLocke doesn't actually care about anyone but him/itself. He only needs all remaining candidates together so that he can kill them all in order to be free to leave the island. But he needs them to think that he wants them to leave with him.



DevdogAZ said:


> It wasn't a storm. IIRC, it was a malfunction of their navigation or communications equipment, so they had turned back to try and get to the nearest airport. That's why they were 1,000 miles off course when they crashed.


If you recall the scene in OC815 with Jack talking with Rose and the turbulence came up before the plane broke into two. Was there a storm outside during the turbulence?

But we know for sure that the sky was clear over the island when the broken plane was witnessed by Ben at. al. in Otherville just before each section crash landed -- trailed by ominous black smoke!!


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

OK, so why does everyone think the writers had Sun lose her ability to speak English? Can't be just random, so what could be the purpose?

Also, here's a bit of a theory. Earlier I had suggested that Jacob/MIB were father and son. Now, I'm not so sure. Thinking back on how fLocke saw Jacob as a young boy makes me think they are brothers. And because young Jacob had blood on his hands, I think *he* killed someone. Maybe their father (that would fit the series' preoccupation with daddy issues) or the crazy mother.

There are several instances of patricide on the show. Ben had to kill his father to become leader of the Others; so did Locke (except he cheated on the "final"). Kate killed her father, and you could argue that Jack's actions directly led to his father falling off the wagon and drinking himself to death.

Maybe Jacob is trying to prove to MIB that he is remorseful, or he is trying to prove that it is possible to repent and be forgiven? I haven't worked that part out yet, but perhaps in order to be in Jacob's camp you have to have killed, yet become truly repentant. 

Since Eko was not repentant, he could not be used by MIB as a loophole to kill Jacob, so that's why he was offed so quickly. On the other hand, Ben *was* repentant, so he was spared.

Of course I also hear that Eko was difficult to work with, so who knows.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

wprager said:


> OK, so why does everyone think the writers had Sun lose her ability to speak English? Can't be just random, so what could be the purpose?


One theory is it's the timelines bleeding over.

Related to that, when Widmore says everything will "cease to exist" he could mean their current timeline will cease to exist. Or perhaps all timelines will collapse into one timeline allowing MIB to return "home".


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


> One theory is it's the timelines bleeding over.
> 
> Related to that, *when Widmore says everything will "cease to exist" he could mean their current timeline will cease to exist*. Or perhaps all timelines will collapse into one timeline allowing MIB to return "home".


Given that it's LOST our initial understanding and reaction to "everyone/thing will cease to exist" may not be the obvious. Given the Season 6 different timelines story, I agree that the ceasing may likely have to do with destroying a timeline. Which timeline ceases if MiB wins (again, it's LOST) may not be obvious.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


> One theory is it's the timelines bleeding over.


That's my guess at least. What other reason could there realistically be?


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## rondotcom (Feb 13, 2005)

SeanC said:


> True, but again, I would expect Jin's boss to be aware of the rules regarding 25k going across borders, Jin not so much. And since it was pretty darned important that the money make it, why wouldn't he explain to Jin;
> 
> "oh by the way, make sure you declare this money on a form they'll give you on the plane."
> 
> ...


At the risk of smeeking... it's insurance. Jin gets through with 25K he gets whacked. He doesn't Keamy is pissed off and whacks him for losing the money


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, considering how much it's been discussed on this forum. There was a mention of information being shared off-camera!



> SAWYER: I ain't listenin' to nobody! I already told you I have a deal with Widmore, so if you just--
> 
> JIN: It doesn't matter who you have a deal with! I've waited long enough. I'm going to find my wife.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

Bananfish said:


> Near the end of the thread for last week's episode, I described how my wife, a very smart woman who absolutely loved the first two seasons of Lost, was now just going through the motions of watching because the show had gotten too convoluted and had too many science fiction elements for her taste.
> 
> Just to illustrate, when Jin was put into the refrigerated room, I said something like "Sayid to the rescue!", and after Sayid actually broke into the room, my wife looked at me with mouth agape and said "how did you know that was going to be Sayid?"


Did she remember the earlier Sayid episode after you explained it to her?


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

rondotcom said:


> At the risk of smeeking... it's insurance. Jin gets through with 25K he gets whacked. He doesn't Keamy is pissed off and whacks him for losing the money


But that just doesn't make sense, what hit man gets upset about not being paid and then does the hit anyway?


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

There seems to be some difference between the "darkness" in Sayid and Claire. Sayid says he doesn't feel anything, not even anger. Claire clearly feels anger and also still cares about Aaron in her way. I thought they were supposed to have the same problem.  

Widmore seems to know all about the pylons repelling Smokey, but what kept him away back when Widmore and the Others were living in the jungle? Were the rules different then?

I wonder if Widmore always knew the importance of Desmond. That could be why he didn't kill him when he took Penny away.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> Widmore seems to know all about the pylons repelling Smokey, but what kept him away back when Widmore and the Others were living in the jungle? Were the rules different then?


Well, the Temple was also a "safe zone".


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

SeanC said:


> But that just doesn't make sense, what hit man gets upset about not being paid and then does the hit anyway?


The kind that I, a thrifty Scot, would hire!


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

jamesbobo said:


> Am I the only one who never recognized "patchy"? Even when he was shot in the eye.


Nope, my wife and I didn't either.



DevdogAZ said:


> But what I didn't get was why earlier in the day, when she could only talk Korean, why didn't she try to spell something out in the sand with a stick?


The idea that if you can't speak a language you can still write it seems hugely counter-intuitive to me, and it's quite believable that it wouldn't occur to her. The brain is a many-splendored mystery even when it's fully functioning, and ten times more so when it's not.



MickeS said:


> It bugs me because it would have been very convenient to use it in several other situations. For example, when turning off pylons.


Maybe he just let a little bit of smoke out and it tickled the lock where we couldn't see it happening. But the smoke couldn't turn off the pylons because it would have to cross the barrier to do it.



rkallerud said:


> Is it possible that Desmond's jumping in time back in season 5 actually represents the first flash-sideways presented in the show?


While I don't think this is going to turn out to be the case, it's a fascinating possibility, and the use of the phrase "the constant" seems to suggest that he'll be pivotal in some way like this which hadn't occurred to me previously. Good catch.



wprager said:


> OK, so why does everyone think the writers had Sun lose her ability to speak English? Can't be just random, so what could be the purpose?


Might be as simple as to prevent her telling the others about Locke too early for the storyline to go where it needed to go.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Hunter Green said:


> The idea that if you can't speak a language you can still write it seems hugely counter-intuitive to me, and it's quite believable that it wouldn't occur to her. The brain is a many-splendored mystery even when it's fully functioning, and ten times more so when it's not.


Indeed it is. Strange things happen when people have strokes. The speech center in the brain is very specific. You can damage your ability to speak while leaving your ability to understand and write intact.


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## rlc1 (Sep 15, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> Ya know, I'm not entirely sure, but I THINK that the show V airs after Lost...


That was just so friggin' annoying. These promos at the bottom of the screen are getting worse and worse all the time.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

JYoung said:


> Well, the Temple was also a "safe zone".


But Widmore, Ellie and their crew didn't live in the Temple when they were on the Island in the 50s. What protected them from Smokey?


Hunter Green said:


> The idea that if you can't speak a language you can still write it seems hugely counter-intuitive to me, and it's quite believable that it wouldn't occur to her. The brain is a many-splendored mystery even when it's fully functioning, and ten times more so when it's not.


I wasn't suggesting that Sun should have thought of it herself. There were several other people around that were trying to understand her, and any one of them could have suggest it as well.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> But Widmore, Ellie and their crew didn't live in the Temple when they were on the Island in the 50s. What protected them from Smokey?


Not all the time.
Unless you are suggesting that the Temple didn't exist in the 1950s.

Also remember that people (like Juliet and Kate) have been able to hide from the Smoke Monster by hiding in the roots of a banyan tree.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

JYoung said:


> Not all the time.
> Unless you are suggesting that the Temple didn't exist in the 1950s.


No, I'm not suggesting that the Temple wasn't there in the 1950s, but IIRC, when Daniel stormed into Widmore and Ellie's camp (and got himself shot), they were just in tents and nowhere near the Temple.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

JYoung said:


> Also remember that people (like Juliet and Kate) have been able to hide from the Smoke Monster by hiding in the roots of a banyan tree.


Of course, we have no way of knowing whether or not that was really effective. Maybe Smokey didn't really want to get them...


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

tewcewl said:


> Did she remember the earlier Sayid episode after you explained it to her?


I don't think so. I went into a "don't you remember like 4 weeks ago the Sayid episode, and his brother was in trouble with owing money, and he didn't know ... blah blah blah?" and her eyes were kind of glazed over.


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## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

peitsche said:


> here's my wife's theory:
> 
> Aaron is the candidate, and he will be the key to saving the island.
> 
> ...


I know this is way late but remember the old Ten Commandments movie with Charleton Heston as Moses? The scene where the Angel of Death kills all of the first born in Egypt has the Angel appearing as a cloud of sentient smoke.


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