# MoCA question: Can it be anywhere in the line?



## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

So, yeah. As expected, the performance of my second Premiere of wireless is unacceptably slow so I'm going to return the TiVo Wireless N Adapter to Amazon and get the Netgear kit for $80 (wish I'd noticed it before I ordered - it's only about $12 more...).

I was originally thinking I don't have enough spots on my antenna splitter to accomodate it, but now I'm wondering if my thinking is off... I'm thinking of it like the DTV DECA adapter which basically needs its own "port" on the coax splitter, but based on what I can see of the Netgear box, there are two coax ports so it would appear that the OTA video signal more or less just "passes through" the box.

My question is this: If I locate the adapter in my basement theater area where I have ethernet jacks in the wall, and then "insert" the box in the coax line between the wall and the basement Tivo, that should work, right? (I can feed that Tivo ethernet directly from another wall socket. It's the two upstairs that don't have ethernet drops.).

[removed horrendous ASCII diagram]

I guess what I'm verifying is whether there's "directionality" to the networking aspect of the device. In other words, will it be shooting Moca signals into the Tivo AND the wall, or only one way? And does it matter (e.g. will it mess with the TiVo)?

Assuming that there is a 4-way splitter near the antenna, will the Moca signal then be pumped down to all the wall jacks for future use if needed?

I hope this makes sense...


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

Slightly better than ASCII diagram. Will this work?

Click for large view - Uploaded with Skitch


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

If the wireless network is setup properly, ie. not over saturated, and a strong signal, the wireless should be similar in performance to the wired ethernet connection.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Moca signals go up and down the chain of coax and splitters to find each other. The signals run at a higher frequency than cable and OTA, so it shouldn't interfere with the Tivo's reception.

Where in the diagram is your internet modem and router located? The moca adapters need those. As long as the "Moca Adapter" is setup as Netgear has it demonstrated on their site, it should be ok.

Be sure your splitter(s) are at least 1GHz, but 2GHz ideally. I believe Moca runs from 900MHz to 1.2GHz.

Someone that knows more than I may chime in, but that's my first impression looking at the setup.


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> If the wireless network is setup properly, ie. not over saturated, and a strong signal, the wireless should be similar in performance to the wired ethernet connection.


I think that's the issue. The location of my AirPort Extreme base station is in on a different floor and the other side of the house. I get a signal, but playback via Hulu and Netflix is unacceptably "laggy" with this setup. I do have all of my other high-use/streaming devices set up using wired connections, but this is not a (feasible) option with the location of this particular TiVo.



BigJimOutlaw said:


> Where in the diagram is your internet modem and router located? The moca adapters need those. As long as the "Moca Adapter" is setup as Netgear has it demonstrated on their site, it should be ok.


I should have been more clear that the router and modem are beyond the wall jack in my cheesy diagram. In other words, the wall plate is "live".



> Moca signals go up and down the chain of coax and splitters to find each other.


That's exactly what I wanted to know. Just wanted to make sure there was no "in/out" with the coax connections -- the OTA signal passes through and the Moca signal is just blasted out both sides.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

Looking at your diagram, it should work fine as long as that coax splitter is not powered/amplified.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

ScottE22 said:


> Slightly better than ASCII diagram. Will this work?
> 
> Click for large view - Uploaded with Skitch


Thats all well & good for your diagram...

But the Elite unit has MoCa built in. So the MoCa Adapter only needs to be near the router. So that it can infuse the ethernet signal from the router and send it down the cable to the TiVo Elite & then one doesn't use the ethernet adapter port on the Elite.

So in that case.... for cable... Will the signale travel back through the splitters?

As my cable comes into my house... is split. one direction going to the cable modem. The other direction to the bedroom TV, & the Living room TV. This is done in the attic. That splitter is on the opposite side of the house.

The router, Cable modem, Gigabit Switch, Are all on the opposite side of the house. So if I put my MoCa adapter inline between the cable modem & the splitter. Will it make it to the TiVo Elites?

Thanks

TGC


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

TexasGrillChef said:


> Thats all well & good for your diagram...
> 
> But the Elite unit has MoCa built in. So the MoCa Adapter only needs to be near the router. So that it can infuse the ethernet signal from the router and send it down the cable to the TiVo Elite & then one doesn't use the ethernet adapter port on the Elite.
> 
> ...


Short answer, yes. Moca signals go up and down splitters. As long as they are physically connected somewhere (with splitters), they can find each other. Same rules apply as mentioned above. Have a 2-way, 1GHz or better splitter, avoid amps between connection points, etc.

The signal from my primary moca adapter goes "Up" a splitter to reach the main entry splitter of the house. Then goes down 2 splitters to reach a TV on the opposite end of the house that I have a second Tivo connected to. Works fine. Moca is meant to work that way.

But if one is so inclined, cable folks may want to get a MoCa POE (point of entry) filter to ensure their moca signal stays within their home. They're not too expensive.


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

Arcady said:


> Looking at your diagram, it should work fine as long as that coax splitter is not powered/amplified.


Nope. The amp is at the antenna so it's all good.



BigJimOutlaw said:


> Short answer, yes. Moca signals go up and down splitters. As long as they are physically connected somewhere (with splitters), they can find each other. Same rules apply as mentioned above. Have a 2-way, 1GHz or better splitter, avoid amps between connection points, etc.


Thanks! This has been helpful. My MoCA adapters should arrive today so I have my fingers crossed.

And thank you, Amazon, for making it painless to return stuff because so far I've tried (and returned) powerline adapters (worthless in this location although they work great for an iMac in my great room a few feet away - weird) and the TiVo wireless N adapter (not quite good enough to stream Hulu).


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

ScottE22 said:


> Nope. The amp is at the antenna so it's all good.
> 
> Thanks! This has been helpful. My MoCA adapters should arrive today so I have my fingers crossed.
> 
> And thank you, Amazon, for making it painless to return stuff because so far I've tried (and returned) powerline adapters (worthless in this location although they work great for an iMac in my great room a few feet away - weird) and the TiVo wireless N adapter (not quite good enough to stream Hulu).


Please report back. I'd like to know how it works.


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

larrs said:


> Please report back. I'd like to know how it works.


Just got the MoCA adapters up and running. It took about 10 minutes.

One thing I noticed is that the two coax connections are labeled "in" and "out" and it does appear that it matters which side you use.

I think the "in" jack needs to connect to the "wall" (so it points back to the coax splitter).

When I connected my router via ethernet and (intuitively?) used the coax "out" jack thinking it would send the MoCA signal "out" to the splitter, it wouldn't see the other MoCA box. When I disconnected it and tried the "in" jack, it connected right away.

So it does not appear that the Netgear MoCA adapters just "blast" the networking signal out both coax connections as I'd anticipated. Luckily this is not a problem in this particular setup, but it does seem to answer one of my initial questions.

What's counter-intuitive is that the A/V signal "flows" the opposite way from the MoCA signal at the originating box. MoCA is flowing "out" and OTA signal is flowing "in."


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

from what i read the netgear boxes have a "filter" on one of the ports so it purposely doesn't "share" your moca network with your neighbors' houses if you set one at your cable modem. 

Anyone have any information how long the moca signal will physically travel on the cable- do i really need to be concerned about using some sort of a filter? Is it just going to die 20 feet outside my house anyway? Or is the signal going to make it 10 blocks away and share my connection with half my zip code?


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

MichaelK said:


> from what i read the netgear boxes have a "filter" on one of the ports so it purposely doesn't "share" your moca network with your neighbors' houses if you set one at your cable modem.


I didn't even think of that... Mine's not connected to my cable modem, though. I wonder if there's a way to disable the filter or if it's hardware inside the box.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> from what i read the netgear boxes have a "filter" on one of the ports so it purposely doesn't "share" your moca network with your neighbors' houses if you set one at your cable modem.
> 
> Anyone have any information how long the moca signal will physically travel on the cable- do i really need to be concerned about using some sort of a filter? Is it just going to die 20 feet outside my house anyway? Or is the signal going to make it 10 blocks away and share my connection with half my zip code?


Cable network setups are varied so it's hard to know specific circumstances. But homes can/do share the same tap. A POE filter prevents home to home interference, and also reflects the signal back into the home, helping reliability. For most, this probably isn't a problem. But it's a heads-up.

I don't know specifics about individual moca bridges but any moca signal reaching the POE splitter can also escape it.

I do know that RCN is installing POE filters on their moca'ed Tivo installations as a standard practice. This doesn't apply to any Fios customers reading this, as the ONT is their stop.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Is the "tap" the particular port on the big giant splitter in the pedestal in the lawn? I happen to know my line connects directly to that port and isn't shared with my neighbors. Does the splitter thingie "filter the moca signal? 

I plan to get a filter before i turn the moca on my elite but I'm just kind of curious how all this works. Sounds like if someone without moca (so they have no filters) accidently turns on the moca connection on their elite it they could be sharing their internet with the rest of the block or at least a few next door neighbors under certain conditions?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

I'm not a cable guy so I can't say anything specific about the multi-tap equipment. In any event, POE filters are often installed at the tap, suggesting it can't be relied upon.

I just know the risk in a general sense that adjacent homes also using moca devices can create interference issues. I haven't heard of it as a means to steal internet, but certainly in a sense that competing networks on the same frequency can hinder everyone.

There's usually safety in obscurity right now; I just happen to be one of the anal ones about this sort of thing.  While not mandatory, it's "recommended" in cable setups.


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