# Time Warner Cable Massive Lineup Changes August 25th!



## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

Not sure if it's nationwide, but Time Warner Cincinnati is doing a massive channel re-org tomorrow and I am concerned that it will cause some problems. Especially since we have an extra layer of complexity with the TA's. 

Please post any problems/resolutions here. 

Hopefully this thread will be empty!


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## JeffRapp (Sep 30, 2007)

Care to share any details regarding this lineup change? I know we've been receiving about 10 new HD channels since early last week that aren't on the official TWC.com channel list for our area.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

I'm only aware of this happening in southwest Ohio. Here is the link they provided to get more information:

http://www.twcinfo.com/

I've received two mailings and one automated phone call on the shuffle. One mailing included a glossy brochure of the new line up, but this is customized to each sub-region within southwest Ohio.

One thing I noticed is that some channels now have two different channel numbers. (I confirmed this by calling them.) I assume this is possible with SDV but I wonder if it has actually been done anywhere before now?


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## kika2000 (Apr 20, 2009)

This occurred in the NYC area on the 19th.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/nynj/...19changes.html

I had no issues with the channels which moved, but even though I see them in the guide, I am not receiving any of the new HD channels yet. 
It's very frustrating to see guide info for TCMHD and BBCAHD, but get no picture.
I'm hoping transmission kicks in soon.


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## ikey78 (Feb 14, 2005)

kika2000 said:


> This occurred in the NYC area on the 19th.
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/nynj/...19changes.html
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update re the changes in New York.

How soon after the switch was it reflected in the channel guide?

Did you have to change the channels you receive to make the new ones show up in the guide?

Did you have to redo your season passes?

I am out of town right now but when I look at the listings on Tivo.com I see no indication of a change in lineup for Southern Ohio after the 25th when the change is supposed to occur.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

kika2000 said:


> This occurred in the NYC area on the 19th.
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/nynj/...19changes.html
> 
> ...


did you have to reboot your TA or your Tivo or both???


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

kika2000 said:


> This occurred in the NYC area on the 19th.
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/nynj/...19changes.html
> 
> ...


Any idea how long it took them to change everything? A CSR here told me it would be done between 2am and 6am, but she wasn't very sure about the accuracy of that info.

At least TCMHD is in your lineup. We're stuck with the SD version.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

its 7am on tuesday... 

the channels have changed but Tivo hasn't picked up any of the changes.

The guide data is the same ole channels...i was hoping for a tivo detected a lineup change this morning!!!!!!!!!!

uggh...


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

dolfer said:


> its 7am on tuesday...
> 
> the channels have changed but Tivo hasn't picked up any of the changes.
> 
> ...


Tivo doesn't detect line up changes. Your cable provider submits them to Tribune Media Services and Tribune updates the line up, which Tivo uses. Tivo can only deal with the information given. I don't know how this one will go for you but also be prepared to possibly rerun the guided setup. If you want to see if TW has updated the info with Tribune, go to zap2it.com and check out the lineup there. After that it will take a little time for it to filter down to Tivo and then when your machine next updates after that you will get the info.

For future posting etiquette, place the location in the title. TW is NOT doing a lineup change. TW Cinci is.


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## kika2000 (Apr 20, 2009)

ikey78 said:


> How soon after the switch was it reflected in the channel guide?
> 
> Did you have to change the channels you receive to make the new ones show up in the guide?
> 
> Did you have to redo your season passes?


The moved channels migrated within 24 hours. I didn't have to change any of the channels manually or redo my season passes, but I have some other issues with service here that force me to reboot my Tivo pretty often so I'm not sure what effect that had on the process.

I'm STILL not getting the new HD channels though - almost a whole week later.


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## Effinay (Aug 18, 2006)

dolfer said:


> its 7am on tuesday...
> 
> the channels have changed but Tivo hasn't picked up any of the changes.
> 
> ...


Same thing here. I went through the channel list walkthrough again on the tivo and forced it to find the new lineup. It then connected and downloaded the new lineup and is currently loading the new info and organizing the new guide.

Timewarner South Dayton


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

great... Zap2it still has the old lineup... as of 10:00am. ;(


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

socrplyr said:


> ........For future posting etiquette, place the location in the title. TW is NOT doing a lineup change. TW Cinci is.


Correction: TW SouthWest Ohio is doing the change, which includes Dayton and many other locations.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

Why doesn't Tivo have email/web-based customer support by now?!?!?! I don't want to call them!!  I hate it when *technology* companies don't use technology!


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Yeah, I seem to be getting all the shuffled channels on the numbers specified in the lineup they mailed me, after rebooting my TA.

I forced a TiVo connect at 8:45am but guide data is not correct.

The weird behavior is that I can check a channel as one I receive then later when I channel-up or channel-down it will skip over that channel and if I go back to channels, TiVo has unchecked that channel! Example: CNNHD, Channel 1350. I wonder if that's just a side effect of not having valid guide data?

Will redoing guided setup make any difference?

We should submit Guide Data problem reports to TiVo, just to ensure they get the message.


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## bobrt6676 (Dec 31, 2007)

dolfer said:


> its 7am on tuesday...
> 
> the channels have changed but Tivo hasn't picked up any of the changes.
> 
> ...


Same here in North Dayton.

At least I can manually tune all stations. No SDV issues.
I suppose after todays update the Guide will be correct after the 2 AM software update.
Is there anyway to force the 2AM install? I could just wait until tomorrow.  But if there's a way.


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## bobrt6676 (Dec 31, 2007)

dolfer said:


> great... Zap2it still has the old lineup... as of 10:00am. ;(


They had the correct line-up when I changed location and selected TW Dayton-North (rebuild)
Maybe the Cincy line-up has the same option.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

bobrt6676 said:


> Same here in North Dayton.
> 
> At least I can manually tune all stations. No SDV issues.
> I suppose after todays update the Guide will be correct after the 2 AM software update.
> Is there anyway to force the 2AM install? I could just wait until tomorrow.  But if there's a way.


You can force a connection as I did at 8:45am this am, but it didn't get the corrected guide data (see my post #15 above).

I'm hoping *Effinay* will post whether he/she got corrected guide data after redoing guided setup (at least I think that's what he/she did).


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

bobrt6676 said:


> They had the correct line-up when I changed location and selected TW Dayton-North (rebuild)
> Maybe the Cincy line-up has the same option.


I have "Time Warner Cable ICRC Mason - Digital" and it is still incorrect as of 10:41am. Just checked it.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Today, your TiVo should receive whatever is on zap2it.com as of 1pm.

If zap2it.com doesn't have your updated lineup by 1pm, then I believe you'll have to wait another day to see any change on your TiVo.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

Ha! Found it... http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/contactsupport/lineup_tool.html


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

dolfer said:


> Ha! Found it... http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/contactsupport/lineup_tool.html





rmorton0573 said:


> Wow Billy your better off than me, I would love to have SyFy HD what part of NC are you in?


Be sure to include your cable company's local number with any lineup change report.

Giving the national number for TWC doesn't really help TiVo/Tribune.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

Not sure if this helps... But I sent an email to TWC also.

https://www.timewarnercable.com/Cincinnati/about/contactus.ashx


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

bkdtv said:


> Today, your TiVo should receive whatever is on zap2it.com as of 1pm.
> 
> If zap2it.com doesn't have your updated lineup by 1pm, then I believe you'll have to wait another day to see any change on your TiVo.


Awesome! Thanks for the specific info. I appreciate it... --Dolf


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## bobrt6676 (Dec 31, 2007)

dlfl said:


> You can force a connection as I did at 8:45am this am, but it didn't get the corrected guide data (see my post #15 above).
> 
> I'm hoping *Effinay* will post whether he/she got corrected guide data after redoing guided setup (at least I think that's what he/she did).


I did the same. But updated software won't install until approx 2AM. This is the part I want to know if we can force to install.


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## ikey78 (Feb 14, 2005)

Just checked Zap2it.com and it has the new lineup. See below.
I chose the South Dayton Digital rebuild and it has all the moved channels as listed on the guide I received in the mail.
Presumably the Tivo box will pick this up later today but not clear if you need to repeat basic setup.

Choose Your Provider
Cable
AT&T U-verse TV - Fiber Optic TV - Digital (Dayton)
Time Warner Cable - Cable (Bellbrook)
Time Warner Cable - Rebuild (Bellbrook)
Time Warner Cable - Digital Rebuild (Bellbrook)
Time Warner Cable - Digital (Bellbrook)
Time Warner Cable Dayton City - Cable (Dayton)
Time Warner Cable Dayton City - Rebuild (Dayton)
Time Warner Cable Dayton City - Digital Rebuild (Dayton)
Time Warner Cable Dayton City - Digital (Dayton)
Time Warner Cable South Dayton - Cable (Kettering)
Time Warner Cable South Dayton - Rebuild (Kettering)
Time Warner Cable South Dayton - Digital Rebuild (Kettering)
Time Warner Cable South Dayton - Digital (Kettering)


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

zap2it has my stuff too, Time Warner North Dayton Digital Rebuld.

Threw me off at first because the site came right up with my old lineup, which it also still has. It displayed my zip code and North Dayton, so I thought: well that's right so they don't have the new data yet. You have to click "Change my location" then select the digital rebuild version.

So we absolutely have to wait until 2 am tomorrow morning for this, is that correct?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

ikey78 said:


> Just checked Zap2it.com and it has the new lineup. See below.
> I chose the South Dayton Digital rebuild and it has all the moved channels as listed on the guide I received in the mail.
> Presumably the Tivo box will pick this up later today but not clear if you need to repeat basic setup.


Most of the time that rebuild lineup is temporary and will be merged into the actual lineup. I would avoid running guided setup and using that lineup as it will probably be deleted once they merge the lineups.


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## bobrt6676 (Dec 31, 2007)

> ikey78 said:
> 
> 
> > Just checked Zap2it.com and it has the new lineup. See below.
> ...


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

rainwater said:


> Most of the time that rebuild lineup is temporary and will be merged into the actual lineup. I would avoid running guided setup and using that lineup as it will probably be deleted once they merge the lineups.


Does guided setup do anything that a connect plus manual channel selection combined don't do?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

dlfl said:


> Does guided setup do anything that a connect plus manual channel selection combined don't do?


Guided setup will let you choose from a list of available lineups. However, you shouldn't need to change lineups. If you choose one of the rebuild lineups, be prepared for your guide data to stop updating at any time. In general, the best thing you can do is wait and it will fix itself.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

Anyone home from work yet??? Let us know if your guide had been updated! thanks, D


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## franzey (Dec 16, 2004)

Time Warner Digital North Dayton here and still showing incorrect lineups. I rebooted the Tivos and forced a connection on both. No luck. Had to set up all my recordings as manual recordings for tonight. Hopefully this is fixed tomorrow. Why can the services that provide the guide plan proactively for these huge changes?


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

*franzey*, I invite you and any others who have not contributed to my "What is good digital viewing" thread to post there. I'm particularly interested in your input since you are also North Dayton like me. I'm in Englewood -- where are you, if you don't mind saying?

Please read my first post in that thread to see what I'm getting at.

Thanks


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## franzey (Dec 16, 2004)

I am in Huber Heights. Not far from you at all.


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## samsauce29 (Nov 30, 2007)

This happened a few months ago in the Northeast Ohio division (Erie, PA for me). I called TiVo the first time and it took about a week to get the guide updated. There have been a couple times since then that they've added 5 or so HD channels to the lineup. Those changes have been pretty smooth (updated guide within about 3 days each time) with no calls to TiVo or Time Warner.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

samsauce29 said:


> This happened a few months ago in the Northeast Ohio division (Erie, PA for me). I called TiVo the first time and it took about a week to get the guide updated. There have been a couple times since then that they've added 5 or so HD channels to the lineup. Those changes have been pretty smooth (updated guide within about 3 days each time) with no calls to TiVo or Time Warner.


Aaargghh! 3 to 5 days? *dolfer*, we might as well cool our heels and think of other things!


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

I just don't understand why this happens... They have known about this MASSIVE change for months. Why can't they get their $#^&#37; together????????????


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## bobrt6676 (Dec 31, 2007)

Aarrgh! day 2 no updated Channel Guide. Another day of manually setting recordings. What a pain. Come on Tivo get your act together!!


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

bobrt6676 said:


> Aarrgh! day 2 no updated Channel Guide. Another day of manually setting recordings. What a pain. Come on Tivo get your act together!!


I am not claiming to be an expert here... But I think it's Time Warner's fault for not proactively submitting these changes to the proper services. Not Tivo's...


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## bobrt6676 (Dec 31, 2007)

dolfer said:


> I am not claiming to be an expert here... But I think it's Time Warner's fault for not proactively submitting these changes to the proper services. Not Tivo's...


Ultimately, sure. BUT, Tivo has known about the change and should have been Pro-active to make sure THEIR customers are not inconvenienced by the change. I guess that is to much to ask!


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## samsauce29 (Nov 30, 2007)

bobrt6676 said:


> Ultimately, sure. BUT, Tivo has known about the change and should have been Pro-active to make sure THEIR customers are not inconvenienced by the change. I guess that is to much to ask!


I'm with you guys. I think there's a bit of cat-and-mouse on both sides but I think Time Warner waits until the last possible minute to submit the change to the guide people.

Good news is... once everything is up and working, it's been pretty solid up here in NE Ohio/NW PA. We've had several electrical power outages this summer and the TiVo/Tuning Adapter/CableCard combo has rebooted and recovered quite nicely.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

I believe it was the great Howard Jones who once said, "No one, no one, no one ever is to blame..."  

Glad to hear that the TiVo/Tuning Adapter/CableCard stack has been solid for you in the face of power outtages! I have always worried about that. The more things you have, the more things can go wrong. 

I do have a decent UPS but it wouldn't go much longer than 30 minutes. I definitely recommend that you get one. It could greatly extend your Tivo's life.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

bobrt6676 said:


> Ultimately, sure. BUT, Tivo has known about the change and should have been Pro-active to make sure THEIR customers are not inconvenienced by the change. I guess that is to much to ask!


How would TiVo know about the change? TW does not work with TiVo to send them channel change notices.


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## cartouchbea (Jan 14, 2009)

I forced 5 or 6 connections, rebooted my TiVo and TA with no luck.

After re-running guided setup, everything worked. That took about an hour and a half. However, all my season passes reflect the new channel lineups.

cartouchbea


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

cartouchbea said:


> I forced 5 or 6 connections, rebooted my TiVo and TA with no luck.
> 
> After re-running guided setup, everything worked. That took about an hour and a half. However, all my season passes reflect the new channel lineups.
> 
> cartouchbea


Did you use the rebuild lineup? Be prepared for it to disappear soon and guide data will go away. Otherwise, it is possible you ran guided setup right when the guide data updated to the new changes.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Anyone else seeing major pixelation problems on USAHD (1201 for me) recently? I mean breakups every few seconds, with occasional periods of no problems for 30 seconds or so.

I just noticed it Monday, the day before the channel shuffle. It may have started a few days before that but I know it wasn't there a week before that. I've checked all other HD channels and they don't have the problem. The error counts are all zeros.

Talked to TWC and tried to get the CSR to just pass the info on to the technical people (i.e., it's only that channel and just started, so it can't be a problem at my end). But "they can't do that" so I've got a truck roll scheduled for Friday afternoon.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

dlfl said:


> Anyone else seeing major pixelation problems on USAHD (1201 for me) recently? I mean breakups every few seconds, with occasional periods of no problems for 30 seconds or so.
> 
> I just noticed it Monday, the day before the channel shuffle. It may have started a few days before that but I know it wasn't there a week before that. I've checked all other HD channels and they don't have the problem. The error counts are all zeros.
> 
> Talked to TWC and tried to get the CSR to just pass the info on to the technical people (i.e., it's only that channel and just started, so it can't be a problem at my end). But "they can't do that" so I've got a truck roll scheduled for Friday afternoon.


Interesting question & point... Wonder if this channel change is more than cosmetic? Wonder what's going on under the hood in terms of SDV, compression used on certain channels, and all that kind of crap?


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## bobrt6676 (Dec 31, 2007)

dlfl said:


> Anyone else seeing major pixelation problems on USAHD (1201 for me) recently? I mean breakups every few seconds, with occasional periods of no problems for 30 seconds or so.
> 
> I just noticed it Monday, the day before the channel shuffle. It may have started a few days before that but I know it wasn't there a week before that. I've checked all other HD channels and they don't have the problem. The error counts are all zeros.
> 
> Talked to TWC and tried to get the CSR to just pass the info on to the technical people (i.e., it's only that channel and just started, so it can't be a problem at my end). But "they can't do that" so I've got a truck roll scheduled for Friday afternoon.


don't usually watch USA but I switched over to 1201 after your post and got the same pixelation you describe.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

bobrt6676 said:


> don't usually watch USA but I switched over to 1201 after your post and got the same pixelation you describe.


Thanks,

If you wouldn't mind calling TWC 937.294.6400 and telling them this, it might let me cancel a truck roll. Surely they would realize it is a *system* problem then. You might mention you know someone in Englewood who has already complained of the same problem.

(But you might want to check some of your other channels first , just to be sure it is only USAHD for you too.)

If this is happening all over North Dayton, it amazes me they haven't already had a lot of calls. I don't see how it could be affecting only TiVo's. Or maybe they have 10 truck rolls already scheduled for this same problem and their system isn't smart enough to make the connection.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

dlfl said:


> Thanks,
> 
> If you wouldn't mind calling TWC 937.294.6400 and telling them this, it might let me cancel a truck roll. Surely they would realize it is a *system* problem then. You might mention you know someone in Englewood who has already complained of the same problem.
> 
> ...


I noticed this Monday, too, and I live a little south of town in Moraine so it might be a problem for all of Dayton. (or at least those with cablecards)


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

realityboy said:


> I noticed this Monday, too, and I live a little south of town in Moraine so it might be a problem for all of Dayton. (or at least those with cablecards)


Please call it in guys! If they get enough calls, maybe they will fix the system and I can cancel my truck roll!

How would cable cards enter the picture? Does each channel have a different encryption key or algorithm? Thus the theory would be they have changed the encryption just for USAHD and haven't pushed it to our cards(?). And wouldn't this just cause you not to get the channel at all, or get it completely garbled instead of just pixelated frequently?
(Just curious -- all I care is they get it fixed!)


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

I can't think of a logical reason that it would have anything to do with the cablecards other than the fact that they would have received more complaints if it was everybody.

If it is still there once I get the channel lineup correct, I will call. I wanted to make sure that everything went well with that so that I wouldn't have to complain more than once.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

I am at work and I'm not really sure what she means but... I follow someone at Tivo and mentioned this issue to her. See tweet below...



> tivodesign @dolfer Did you try my suggestion of pressing ENTER on the Channel List in Settings? The new lineup should be there (we can see it).


What exactly does she mean? Rerun guided set up with the rebuild??? From what some of you have said, that's not a good idea right? Since rebuild is temporary.

Unfortunately I am not in tune enough to know what "pressing ENTER on the Channel List in Settings" does exactly without being in front of my Tivo!


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

dolfer said:


> I am at work and I'm not really sure what she means but... I follow someone at Tivo and mentioned this issue to her. See tweet below...
> 
> What exactly does she mean? Rerun guided set up with the rebuild??? From what some of you have said, that's not a good idea right? Since rebuild is temporary.
> 
> Unfortunately I am not in tune enough to know what "pressing ENTER on the Channel List in Settings" does exactly without being in front of my Tivo!


If you press enter on the Channel list screen under settings, it lets you change your channel lineup. We shouldn't need to do this since the new lineup should replace the current lineup, but it might be good for a temporary fix.


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## Grumock (Dec 16, 2008)

dolfer said:


> I am not claiming to be an expert here... But I think it's Time Warner's fault for not proactively submitting these changes to the proper services. Not Tivo's...


How do you figure that when TIVO knows ahead of time just like the rest of us?


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

realityboy said:


> If you press enter on the Channel list screen under settings, it lets you change your channel lineup. We shouldn't need to do this since the new lineup should replace the current lineup, but it might be good for a temporary fix.


I did this. It let's you change the channel lineup without redoing guided setup although mine still took awhile. I guess that I'm using the 'rebuild' lineup, but I'm not really sure. It just asked me what a few channels were. 2 & 26 here. 2 since it changed to WDTN from QVC, and I think it always asked me about channel 26 for some reason even though it has always been ESPN here.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

Grumock said:


> How do you figure that when TIVO knows ahead of time just like the rest of us?


Common sense... TWC are the ones ultimately responsible for submitting these changes to the proper data services. The data services are then used by companies like Tivo that depend on that data.

Is it possible that Tivo just hasn't retrieved that data yet? Yes... As I said, I am not an expert. Just speculating.

Regardless of fault, I just wish that both parties can coordinate better in the future for BIG changes like these.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

realityboy said:


> I can't think of a logical reason that it would have anything to do with the cablecards other than the fact that they would have received more complaints if it was everybody.
> 
> If it is still there once I get the channel lineup correct, I will call. I wanted to make sure that everything went well with that so that I wouldn't have to complain more than once.


I wouldn't want to nag you (but that's what I'm doing ). I think the guide data issue is completely separate from the USAHD issue -- i.e., you don't risk much by going ahead with the USAHD complaint. I can't imagine that anything related to the guide data update is going to impact the USAHD problem -- after all it was there before they even did the channel switch, when it was a 700 series channel.

I happened to spot a TWC truck near my house today and asked the driver if he knew anything about problems with USAHD. He said "No". He agreed with the logic that if it's just one channel and just started this week, the problem couldn't be at my end. I told him I knew two OP who had exactly the same problem and asked if in this case TWC would still roll trucks to each location. He didn't think so. Then he asked what kind of STB I had and I told him TiVo, and that the two OP were also TiVo's. "OOOOH......" he said and I could see the wheels of suspicion turning in his mind. He still had to agree with the logic about the problem not being at the customer end, however. As we parted I told him I might be seeing him again Friday afternoon!

Unfortunately, it is still possible this is something that just affects TiVo's for some arcane technical reason. That will be fun won't it?


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

dlfl said:


> I wouldn't want to nag you (but that's what I'm doing ). I think the guide data issue is completely separate from the USAHD issue -- i.e., you don't risk much by going ahead with the USAHD complaint. I can't imagine that anything related to the guide data update is going to impact the USAHD problem -- after all it was there before they even did the channel switch, when it was a 700 series channel.
> 
> I happened to spot a TWC truck near my house today and asked the driver if he knew anything about problems with USAHD. He said "No". He agreed with the logic that if it's just one channel and just started this week, the problem couldn't be at my end. I told him I knew two OP who had exactly the same problem and asked if in this case TWC would still roll trucks to each location. He didn't think so. Then he asked what kind of STB I had and I told him TiVo, and that the two OP were also TiVo's. "OOOOH......" he said and I could see the wheels of suspicion turning in his mind. He still had to agree with the logic about the problem not being at the customer end, however. As we parted I told him I might be seeing him again Friday afternoon!
> 
> Unfortunately, it is still possible this is something that just affects TiVo's for some arcane technical reason. That will be fun won't it?


I know it's a separate issue, but I want to make sure everything works after the changeover before I complain. I like to get all my complaining done at once. It's been about a year or so since I had a truck roll so it's about time for something to be wrong.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Grumock said:


> How do you figure that when TIVO knows ahead of time just like the rest of us?


How does TiVo know? Unless they have an employee living in that market, they really do not get notifications of channel lineup changes. Lineup changes that users report to TiVo are just forwarded to Tribune. Tivo does not have the ability to make lineup changes themselves.


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## Grumock (Dec 16, 2008)

rainwater said:


> How does TiVo know? Unless they have an employee living in that market, they really do not get notifications of channel lineup changes. Lineup changes that users report to TiVo are just forwarded to Tribune. Tivo does not have the ability to make lineup changes themselves.


you guys can kid yourself in thinking that TIVO is not aware of channel lineup changes coming down the line, but i like to think, "it takes two to tango". Plus I think they have in house techs reading these Like that Jerry guy.


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## franzey (Dec 16, 2004)

Time Warner points the finger at Tivo, Tivo does the same to Time Warner. Seriously, I don't care who is at fault, I want my paid services to work correctly.


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## lafos (Nov 8, 2004)

bobrt6676 said:


> don't usually watch USA but I switched over to 1201 after your post and got the same pixelation you describe.


Just watched 1201 (USAHD) for about 15 minutes and saw no pixelation, Checked diagnostics, and RS uncorrected and corrected were both zero. So if it's in the system, it's south of Troy.


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## Grumock (Dec 16, 2008)

franzey said:


> Time Warner points the finger at Tivo, Tivo does the same to Time Warner. Seriously, I don't care who is at fault, I want my paid services to work correctly.


Now your talking. I agree with you 100%


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## bobrt6676 (Dec 31, 2007)

dlfl said:


> Thanks,
> 
> If you wouldn't mind calling TWC 937.294.6400 and telling them this, it might let me cancel a truck roll. Surely they would realize it is a *system* problem then. You might mention you know someone in Englewood who has already complained of the same problem.
> 
> ...


USAHD seeems to be working fine now. No more pixelation. I will keep an eye on it and if it gets bad again I will call.


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## franzey (Dec 16, 2004)

I encourage you to call Tivo to walk you through this (for those in the Dayton rebuild). He walked me through changing the lineup and everything seems to be working. I should have taken notes for a detailed step by step for people here, but honestly, I wasn't thinking it would work. It isn't a lot of steps, but I don't remember 100&#37; and don't want to lead you down the wrong path. Call them, it took less than 10 minutes on the phone.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

franzey said:


> I encourage you to call Tivo to walk you through this (for those in the Dayton rebuild). He walked me through changing the lineup and everything seems to be working. I should have taken notes for a detailed step by step for people here, but honestly, I wasn't thinking it would work. It isn't a lot of steps, but I don't remember 100% and don't want to lead you down the wrong path. Call them, it took less than 10 minutes on the phone.


Did you select a lineup (or region, whatever it's called) with "Rebuild" in the name?


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## franzey (Dec 16, 2004)

dlfl said:


> Did you select a lineup (or region, whatever it's called) with "Rebuild" in the name?


Yes, I believe so.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Just checked USAHD for a minute or so - looks OK now. I bet some non-TiVo subscribers called it in too. My theory: In preparation for the channel switch, they adjusted some encoding or QAM parameter on Monday, perhaps accidentally.

The pixelation had a different character than what I see in my normal occasional glitches -- hard to describe but smaller blocks and more widely spread over the frame.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

rainwater said:


> How does TiVo know? Unless they have an employee living in that market, they really do not get notifications of channel lineup changes. Lineup changes that users report to TiVo are just forwarded to Tribune. Tivo does not have the ability to make lineup changes themselves.


They should have known about this one -- I submitted a Guide Data error report at least two weeks before the switch and told them about the upcoming channel shuffle in the comments section.

They have to work with Tribune Media Services and the Cable Provider. The information has to flow from the Cable provider to Tribune Media Services. I suspect all TiVo can do is ask TMS about it.


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## franzey (Dec 16, 2004)

Not to hijack the thread, but I've been on "Preparing" in the Getting Program Info screen for almost an hour now. Does it take this long to prepare it? This is after selecting the Rebuild Enhanced lineup...


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

I believe we've had at least two posters on this thread advising not to use the "rebuild" lineups (because they are temporary -- they will stop being updated in a few days -- and you will have to start over with the original lineup name). The word was: Wait and all will take care of itself sooner or later.

Has a consensus developed here that we are not following that advice?


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## franzey (Dec 16, 2004)

A few days means manually programming dozens of recordings. Doing multiple guided setups takes less time than settings up 35 manual programs to record.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

franzey said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but I've been on "Preparing" in the Getting Program Info screen for almost an hour now. Does it take this long to prepare it? This is after selecting the Rebuild Enhanced lineup...


I've seen it take a few minutes "preparing" and always wonder what the heck it's doing.

An hour seems way out of line IMHO.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

franzey said:


> A few days means manually programming dozens of recordings. Doing multiple guided setups takes less time than settings up 35 manual programs to record.


I see your point. I've forgotten how long a guided setup takes -- was assuming it might be a long time. And I don't currently have that many season passes, mostly because I'm still working with 160 GB. -- something I am planning to correct real soon now!


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## lwarzy (Aug 26, 2009)

I'm in Cinci proper and haven't seen any changes/mistakes in my lineup. I did contact TWC via chat, and they told me this:



> Me: I can still see the same programming on channel 127... it's still Current TV. I would assume that if my lineup was updated that ch 127 would be blank since there's nothing assigned to it anymore.
> TWC: Yes, it is a known issue and we have intimated Tribune about this. They are making the changes. We expect them to have updated all the Tivo equipment by the weekend.
> Me: So what you are saying is that i won't see any evidence of any changes - programming or guide - until this weekend, correct?
> TWC: Yes, that is right. This because Tribune is still making these updates.
> ...


I'm still baffled because I did not expect to see zero changes whatsoever, and I would assume that Tribune just manages the guide, right? (I wish I had a better working knowledge of all of this...) Maybe someone can provide a bit more insight?

Here's hoping for a smooth transition this weekend I guess. (?)


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## franzey (Dec 16, 2004)

dlfl said:


> I see your point. I've forgotten how long a guided setup takes -- was assuming it might be a long time. And I don't currently have that many season passes, mostly because I'm still working with 160 GB. -- something I am planning to correct real soon now!


I've got the original drive in it as well. I would definitely like to remedy that as well.

The guided setup wasn't the full blown (out of the box) setup. it was MUCH shorter.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

lwarzy said:


> I'm in Cinci proper and haven't seen any changes/mistakes in my lineup. I did contact TWC via chat, and they told me this:
> 
> I'm still baffled because I did not expect to see zero changes whatsoever, and I would assume that Tribune just manages the guide, right? (I wish I had a better working knowledge of all of this...) Maybe someone can provide a bit more insight?
> 
> Here's hoping for a smooth transition this weekend I guess. (?)


Are you saying all your channels are still on the same numbers? And the guide data is aligned with that?

This doesn't make any sense to me. It's as if they just postponed the channel shuffle in your local area for some reason. Were you notified of a new lineup starting 25 August?

AFAIK Tribune and TiVo manage the guide data.

I'm not sure whether this is "Outer Limits" or "The Twilight Zone".


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## lwarzy (Aug 26, 2009)

dlfl said:


> Are you saying all your channels are still on the same numbers? And the guide data is aligned with that?
> 
> This doesn't make any sense to me. It's as if they just postponed the channel shuffle in your local area for some reason. Were you notified of a new lineup starting 25 August?
> 
> ...


Yeah, exactly. I was notified about the changes, so I was expecting some sort of chaos to ensue... but nothing has happened... hence the reason I started asking questions. The channels & guides are still aligned the same way they've always been, even after a guided setup. Twilight Zone _indeed_...


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

franzey said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but I've been on "Preparing" in the Getting Program Info screen for almost an hour now. Does it take this long to prepare it? This is after selecting the Rebuild Enhanced lineup...


As creator of this thread I give you FULL permission to hijack... The fact that I am now experiencing the same problem is coincidental! 

Any update on this????? Now I am stuck on "Preparing" as well!!! It's been about 15 minutes at this stage.

If it finally got through, how long did it take to move to the next step? To go through the whole process??

And most importantly, if it went through everything, are the channels now correct????? 

Patiently awaiting your reply.


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## franzey (Dec 16, 2004)

dolfer said:


> As creator of this thread I give you FULL permission to hijack... The fact that I am now experiencing the same problem is coincidental!
> 
> Any update on this????? Now I am stuck on "Preparing" as well!!! It's been about 15 minutes at this stage.
> 
> ...


Did you update your lineup? I let it go for like 45 minutes or so and then I unplugged it and started it back up. It went through the guided setup again and I had to choose the rebuild lineup again. This time it did seem to hang on the preparing for a long time but did move forward after 10-15 minutes (after the reboot). Now my channels and guide are looking good.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

franzey said:


> Did you update your lineup? I let it go for like 45 minutes or so and then I unplugged it and started it back up. It went through the guided setup again and I had to choose the rebuild lineup again. This time it did seem to hang on the preparing for a long time but did move forward after 10-15 minutes (after the reboot). Now my channels and guide are looking good.


Great... ;(

I can't believe after all of this time we still have to go through all this crap just to get the correct channel lineup.

I guess I'll watch some DVDs tonight!


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## henderpa (Dec 3, 2003)

Mine took about 20 minutes on the "Preparing" step and another 35 minutes to process the data. Thankfully, afterward the channels are all setup correctly! Woohoo! 

By the way, I didn't see any "rebuild" lineups in my list, just the normal ones. I selected the "City of Dayton" however if I go into the System Information screen it shows that my lineup is "Digital Rebuild"


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

franzey said:


> Did you update your lineup? I let it go for like 45 minutes or so and then I unplugged it and started it back up. It went through the guided setup again and I had to choose the rebuild lineup again. This time it did seem to hang on the preparing for a long time but did move forward after 10-15 minutes (after the reboot). Now my channels and guide are looking good.


It just keeps getting WORSE! At ~45 minutes I went ahead and did a reboot like you and started going through the Guided Setup.

However, unlike you, my Tivo froze up again after the initial connection to the Tivo service. So I am rebooting AGAIN... This sucks... Why do I have the horrible feeling that I am going to end up with a brick at the end of the night???


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

Finally up and running! It's 1am... I had to re-do all of my season passes as they were based on the old lineup. There was no intelligent mapping going on. Didn't want to risk it. Then had to go through and prune out all the channels I didn't get or want to see. Many duplicate channels under the new system. 

DLFL: USA HD 1201 looks just fine for me. Some old James Bond flick from 1967! No glitches at all...


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## bobrt6676 (Dec 31, 2007)

Day 2 still no updated channel guide. Since I only have a few recordings in the summer I am going to wait it out. Redoing Guided setup seems to be quite a hassle for those who have gone that route.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

lwarzy said:


> I'm in Cinci proper and haven't seen any changes/mistakes in my lineup. I did contact TWC via chat, and they told me this:
> 
> I'm still baffled because I did not expect to see zero changes whatsoever, and I would assume that Tribune just manages the guide, right? (I wish I had a better working knowledge of all of this...) Maybe someone can provide a bit more insight?
> 
> Here's hoping for a smooth transition this weekend I guess. (?)


Reboot your tuning adapter, and you'll get the new lineup. Mine stayed with the old for an extra day until I did that. I assume it would have indefinitely until I rebooted the TA. Of course, you could wait for Tivo to have the correct guide data and then reboot it.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

dolfer said:


> Finally up and running! It's 1am... I had to re-do all of my season passes as they were based on the old lineup. There was no intelligent mapping going on. Didn't want to risk it. Then had to go through and prune out all the channels I didn't get or want to see. Many duplicate channels under the new system.
> 
> DLFL: USA HD 1201 looks just fine for me. Some old James Bond flick from 1967! No glitches at all...


No need to redo season passes. I have 113, and all are still working fine. It doesn't matter what number the season pass says. All that matters is that the channel name is the same. I still have some season passes set up for off-air channels from before Time Warner offered them in HD, and they work as well. Just look at View Upcoming Showings, and you can see that things will be recorded.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

bobrt6676 said:


> Day 2 still no updated channel guide. Since I only have a few recordings in the summer I am going to wait it out. Redoing Guided setup seems to be quite a hassle for those who have gone that route.


It still takes a bit, but you don't have to redo guided setup. Just change your channel lineup.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

realityboy said:


> No need to redo season passes. I have 113, and all are still working fine. It doesn't matter what number the season pass says. All that matters is that the channel name is the same. I still have some season passes set up for off-air channels from before Time Warner offered them in HD, and they work as well. Just look at View Upcoming Showings, and you can see that things will be recorded.


I only had about 10 right now...

Plus, can you be 100% sure that Tivo would record the HD channel??? If there are multiple possibilities how do you know it would always pick HD?

I just felt better knowing that the SP was made with the correct HD channel.

Call me crazy!?!?!


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

The HD channel is a different channel name than the SD. So if the Season Pass is set up for USAHD, it will record USAHD and not USA. If it is set up for USA, it will record from any of the USA channels available in your lineup. I don't think it matters what the season pass is on. At least I hope that is how it works. I'll find out soon enough.

That said, it appears that not all of my season passes have remapped to the right channels yet. Everything was good last night, but some of the ones later in the week haven't shown up in my To Do list.


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## rocko (Oct 29, 2002)

dolfer said:


> I only had about 10 right now...
> 
> Plus, can you be 100% sure that Tivo would record the HD channel??? If there are multiple possibilities how do you know it would always pick HD?
> 
> ...


You're crazy ... 

Season passes work from the channel ID (i.e. WABCDT, SYFYHD, etc.) so re-doing SPs for channel lineup changes are unnecessary). I've previously mentioned that my SPs survived changing cable providers (Cablevision to FIOS).


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## bobrt6676 (Dec 31, 2007)

realityboy said:


> It still takes a bit, but you don't have to redo guided setup. Just change your channel lineup.


how would you change channel line-up w/o going through guided set-up? You can go through channel list and select the new channels but no new guide info.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

I got an email reply from TiVo just now in response to the Guide Data problem I submitted Tuesday, just to ping them on the lineup change. Here are the instructions they gave me to get my correct lineup:



> - TiVo Central (by pressing the TiVo button on your TiVo remote)
> - Select Messages and Settings
> - Select Settings
> - Select Channels
> ...


Note two things:
1. It describes this as a *portion *of the Guided Setup.
2. It instructs selecting the *rebuild* lineup.

There is *no* warning (as stated by two earlier posters in this thread) that the rebuild lineup will stop updating in a few days and the process will have to be repeated with the non-rebuild lineup. 

I lost patience waiting for it to take care of itself so am doing this now. The "Preparing..." phase took 14 mins. I'm at 47% of the "Loading info" phase after about 4 mins.


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## bobrt6676 (Dec 31, 2007)

dlfl said:


> I got an email reply from TiVo just now in response to the Guide Data problem I submitted Tuesday, just to ping them on the lineup change. Here are the instructions they gave me to get my correct lineup:
> 
> Note two things:
> 1. It describes this as a *portion *of the Guided Setup.
> ...


Thanks for the info. I to am tired of waiting also for something that should have happened within 24 hours. There was only one deviation from Tivo's instructions. It never asks to choose "rebuild lineup". Instead it asks what do you receive on Channel 2 and Channel 26. From this I suppose they know if you are a rebuild area. So I am at "Preparing to connect" to get program info.


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## franzey (Dec 16, 2004)

At the screen where you choose which channel you get on channel 2, etc... I was told to continue to hit "No" or choose other channel until it presented me with a list of lineups. From that list, I choose the rebuild extended basic.


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## bobrt6676 (Dec 31, 2007)

franzey said:


> At the screen where you choose which channel you get on channel 2, etc... I was told to continue to hit "No" or choose other channel until it presented me with a list of lineups. From that list, I choose the rebuild extended basic.


ooops! did not know that part. I chose WDTN. Oh well, lets see if it works both ways.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

franzey said:


> At the screen where you choose which channel you get on channel 2, etc... I was told to continue to hit "No" or choose other channel until it presented me with a list of lineups. From that list, I choose the rebuild extended basic.


Yeah, me too.

The entire "portion of guided setup" took about 50 mins. "Loading info" (including "Organizing...") took 34 mins. Guide data seems OK so far.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

bobrt6676 said:


> ooops! did not know that part. I chose WDTN. Oh well, lets see if it works both ways.


That way works for Dayton since channel 2 changed here-it does get teh rebuild lineup.


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## franzey (Dec 16, 2004)

realityboy said:


> That way works for Dayton since channel 2 changed here-it does get teh rebuild lineup.


There were two rebuild lineups. One didn't have all the HD channels. The extended one has all the HD channels. The other rebuild lineups was missing 50% of the HD channels.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

All of the HD channels were there for me based on picking the correct channel. It might be different for your zip code, but I've never had a problem with Tivo picking the correct lineup based on telling it what channels you receive.

Edit: Under System Info my lineup is listed as Time Warner Cable South Dayton Digital Rebuild.


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## franzey (Dec 16, 2004)

The channels were all correct for me too (in the other rebuild lineup), but beyond channel 1100, they were mostly missing. Everything prior to that from 2 up was spot on.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Hmm..it picked the right lineup for me based on channel 2 alone so maybe there was only 1 digital rebuild in south Dayton, or they fixed the problem and deleted the other one. I know there were a few counties that lost hd local channels maybe the other lineup is for them.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

All of my season passes have still not repopulated my To Do List yet. How long should that take? The ones for last night all repopulated correctly, but I still don't have a few recordings scheduled that should be recorded tonight.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

realityboy said:


> All of my season passes have still not repopulated my To Do List yet. How long should that take? The ones for last night all repopulated correctly, but I still don't have a few recordings scheduled that should be recorded tonight.


Are the correct programs listed in the To Do List, but with the wrong channel number? If the old channels were deleted from the lineup, the TiVo will record from the correct channels even if the old numbers are still listed in the To Do List.

When my cable provider changed their numbers, it took two weeks for the To Do List to update with the correct numbers. But every program during that period recorded from the correct (new) channel.


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## franzey (Dec 16, 2004)

bkdtv said:


> When my cable provider changed their numbers, it took two weeks for the To Do List to update with the correct numbers. But every program during that period recorded from the correct (new) channel.


This was my experience as well with this last rebuild.


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## lafos (Nov 8, 2004)

I went through GS, and when identifying channels, I said no to ch 20, which is gone from the rebuild for Troy. The TiVos thought for a while, and then came up with the correct line-up. They did take a while to prepare for connection, but I let it go and it did complete. All the ToDo recordings from my SPs realigned automatically.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

bkdtv said:


> Are the correct programs listed in the To Do List, but with the wrong channel number? If the old channels were deleted from the lineup, the TiVo will record from the correct channels even if the old numbers are still listed in the To Do List.
> 
> When my cable provider changed their numbers, it took two weeks for the To Do List to update with the correct numbers. But every program during that period recorded from the correct (new) channel.


Some are listed in the To Do List with the correct number, but most are not listed at all.


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## kika2000 (Apr 20, 2009)

I've had the correct lineup without re-doing guided setup here in NYC since the switch-over on the 19th.
However, I STILL can't get the new HD channels on my Tivo.

BBCAHD and TCMHD show up in the guide and show up fine on my SA8300, but no go on the Tivo.

I've tried everything at this point. Time Warner is sending out a tech to me tomorrow. Very bummed.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

realityboy said:


> Some are listed in the To Do List with the correct number, but most are not listed at all.


These actually showed up in my season pass list with the correct number. If anyone else has this problem, the way that I got the shows to show back up was to rearrange my season passes. I took the lowest priority and moved it to the top and then exited so that I got the Please Wait screen. After this everything was back to normal.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

I wonder how many "non-techie" types own a Tivo HD??? I wonder if they are still sitting there with incorrect channel lineups right now? Thinking WTF is going on here?!?!?! 

P.S. I am assuming that the automatic detection still hasn't happened... And that unless you took matters into your own hands, you still have the wrong channel lineup.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

dolfer said:


> I wonder how many "non-techie" types own a Tivo HD??? I wonder if they are still sitting there with incorrect channel lineups right now? Thinking WTF is going on here?!?!?! .........


I had the same thought. I guess they either call TiVo or consult a techie they know. Such folks may well have had to have a techie set up their TiVo to begin with, just as people do for home theater systems, etc. Even some microwave ovens and other common appliances can challenge the "non-techie".


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

dolfer said:


> I wonder how many "non-techie" types own a Tivo HD??? I wonder if they are still sitting there with incorrect channel lineups right now? Thinking WTF is going on here?!?!?!


I'm lucky in that where I live channel changes always happen the day they occur. Situations like you are in is the fault of the local contact that deals with Tribune. Users should never have to run guided setup to get the correct lineup. It should be happening automatically within a day or two of the channel changes.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

rainwater said:


> ....... Situations like you are in is the fault of the local contact that deals with Tribune.........


Just to be absolutely clear on that, you are saying the Cable co, right?

In that case, I'm surprised anyone gets a response shorter than a week, given the Cable cos lack of any business incentive to support TiVo's.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

dlfl said:


> Just to be absolutely clear on that, you are saying the Cable co, right?
> 
> In that case, I'm surprised anyone gets a response shorter than a week, given the Cable cos lack of any business incentive to support TiVo's.


I have Charter who still has Moxi boxes in the field. Moxi boxes get their guide data through Charter but it uses Tribune guide data. So they have more of an incentive to have it working. My guess is some cable companies have a dedicated person in charge of reporting to Tribune from the local office and other companies may just have a global contact who has little knowledge of local changes.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

zap2it.com, which gets the info from Tribune, had the revised lineup immediately (i.e., 25 Aug.) , labeled with "rebuild" (while they also had the old lineup).

Thus it would appear the delay is due to Tribune and/or TiVo, unless they are waiting for some final authorization from TWC.

Darned if it makes sense to me!

Has anyone got the new guide data without redoing the "portion" of Guided Setup?


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## Grumock (Dec 16, 2008)

dlfl said:


> I had the same thought. I guess they either call TiVo or consult a techie they know. Such folks may well have had to have a techie set up their TiVo to begin with, just as people do for home theater systems, etc. Even some microwave ovens and other common appliances can challenge the "non-techie".


OMG not to mention a calculator. LMAO


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Grumock said:


> OMG not to mention a calculator. LMAO


I consider myself a "techie" but I admit I find many of the fancier model devices (and software) complicated beyond being worth mastering.


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## Grumock (Dec 16, 2008)

dlfl said:


> I consider myself a "techie" but I admit I find many of the fancier model devices (and software) complicated beyond being worth mastering.


I agree. I have had people call me though, when i was tech support, & when i ask them if the computer is on, they ask me . "does it need to be?" Or when i ask them to hit start they tell me "I already turned it on". Those type i think a calculator would be better.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

Out of curiosity did anyone actually get the "Tivo detected a change in your lineup" message that automatically updates/remaps channels? Or were the masses expected to go through all of this on their own? 

I said it before, I can't imagine the non-techies out there were pleased with this HUGE inconvenience. 

Is it Time Warner's fault or Tivo's? To me, I think this is a Tivo problem since the channels were there... They just had to be added via Guided Set Up again instead of the usual automated process.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

dolfer said:


> .............
> Is it Time Warner's fault or Tivo's? To me, I think this is a Tivo problem since the channels were there... They just had to be added via Guided Set Up again instead of the usual automated process.


I can easily imagine it's at least partly TWC's fault. Although TiVo knows about it and so does Tribune Media Services, I suspect they have to wait for a final approval from TWC. It certainly is ridiculous!

I just checked zap2it.com and the non-rebuild lineup for North Dayton Digital is still the old one.

I wonder what happens for those of us who manually loaded the "rebuild" lineups when they finally do update the non-rebuild version? Do we just eventually notice our guide data isn't updating, or what?


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

What's the problem with using a rebuild lineup???? If it is bad data, why is it available in the first place? So a "rebuild" lineup is just something that is temporarily tossed out there when there are changes and then forgotten about after the changes are finalized and adopted into the non-rebuild lineup?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

dlfl said:


> I can easily imagine it's at least partly TWC's fault. Although TiVo knows about it and so does Tribune Media Services, I suspect they have to wait for a final approval from TWC. It certainly is ridiculous!


TiVo doesn't know anything about lineup changes. They get the data straight from Tribune and do not make modifications (except I believe DirecTivo users do get enhanced guide data). There is no notification system that they have that let's them know when cable companies make channel changes.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

dolfer said:


> What's the problem with using a rebuild lineup???? If it is bad data, why is it available in the first place? So a "rebuild" lineup is just something that is temporarily tossed out there when there are changes and then forgotten about after the changes are finalized and adopted into the non-rebuild lineup?


Generally rebuild lineups are temporary lineups that get merged into the main lineup. You should never have to use a rebuild lineup. If you do, it shows the incompetence of the cable company in working with Tribune on the lineup changes.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

rainwater said:


> Guided setup will let you choose from a list of available lineups. However, you shouldn't need to change lineups. If you choose one of the rebuild lineups, be prepared for your guide data to stop updating at any time. In general, the best thing you can do is wait and it will fix itself.


Well, I agree we shouldn't need to change lineups but it's been a week now. I'm glad I did it.

It stinks that we're most likely going to have to do the (portion of) Guided Setup again. It took 50 minutes and IIRC you couldn't watch either live or recorded TV during that time.

And apparently we have to keep monitoring the Guide Data or zap2it.com just to know when the "rebuild" data is no longer being updated -- correct? Or will our TiVo generate a message at that time?

As OP have said, this has really got to be a nightmare for owners who are not gadgeteers. Really hard to understand why the process has to be this user unfriendly.

EDIT: *rainwater*'s latest post occured while I was composing this post. I agree: TWC is the likely culprit. For some reason I find it satisfying to blame things on them anyway.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

rainwater said:


> TiVo doesn't know anything about lineup changes. They get the data straight from Tribune and do not make modifications (except I believe DirecTivo users do get enhanced guide data). There is no notification system that they have that let's them know when cable companies make channel changes.


Not that it's worth arguing about, but I believe both TiVo and TMS have known about this change since about the time it occured (25 Aug).

Doesn't zap2it get their rebuild lineup from TMS? And they've had that on their site since shortly after the switch (possibly even before -- I didn't look then).

TiVo replied to a Guide Data error report I submitted shortly after the change and instructed me on doing a "portion of Guided Setup". In the instructions they said to select the "rebuild" lineup. Thus they knew about it then.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

rainwater said:


> Generally rebuild lineups are temporary lineups that get merged into the main lineup. You should never have to use a rebuild lineup. If you do, it shows the incompetence of the cable company in working with Tribune on the lineup changes.


Unfortunately, in this Time Warner Cable region (Southwest Region / Greater Cincinnati) we have had to resort to using a rebuild lineup if we want the correct channels... There was a massive reorganization on *August 25th* and it's still not showing up as part of the normal (non-rebuild) lineup.

Thus anyone buying a new Tivo since that date would HAVE to use a rebuild lineup or else the channels wouldn't even be close!  Had I not changed them, I would have had to make manual recordings for all of my SPs with the new channel.

I have always felt that TWC does as little as possible to help out Tivo users. The bare minimum... They could care less that your channels are wrong. They are looking for any excuse whatsoever to get you to use one of their TERRIBLE DVRs. Instead of AT&T and Verizon, I wish Tivo would go after TW. Maybe that would adjust their attitude.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

dolfer said:


> ........I have always felt that TWC does as little as possible to help out Tivo users. The bare minimum... They could care less that your channels are wrong. They are looking for any excuse whatsoever to get you to use one of their TERRIBLE DVRs. Instead of AT&T and Verizon, I wish Tivo would go after TW. Maybe that would adjust their attitude.


Yeah, TWC has no incentive to support TiVo's other than what is forced on them by law. They lose potential VOD and PPV sales to TiVo users. I would say TiVo's also put an extra training burden on their install/service function, but I haven't seen any evidence of such training. 

I don't think TiVo has any leverage to "adjust their attitude", and also wonder if working that problem would make the cutoff on TiVo's current priority list.


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## Grumock (Dec 16, 2008)

dolfer said:


> I have always felt that TWC does as little as possible to help out Tivo users. The bare minimum... They could care less that your channels are wrong. They are looking for any excuse whatsoever to get you to use one of their TERRIBLE DVRs. Instead of AT&T and Verizon, I wish Tivo would go after TW. Maybe that would adjust their attitude.


think they have their hands full suing AT&T & Verizon right now. LOL

http://www.multichannel.com/article/329084-TiVo_Sues_Verizon_AT_T_For_Patent_Infringement.php


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## lafos (Nov 8, 2004)

dolfer said:


> Out of curiosity did anyone actually get the "Tivo detected a change in your lineup" message that automatically updates/remaps channels? Or were the masses expected to go through all of this on their own?
> 
> I said it before, I can't imagine the non-techies out there were pleased with this HUGE inconvenience.
> 
> Is it Time Warner's fault or Tivo's? To me, I think this is a Tivo problem since the channels were there... They just had to be added via Guided Set Up again instead of the usual automated process.


I can confirm that the new changes did not go through automatically (yet).


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

lafos said:


> I can confirm that the new changes did not go through automatically (yet).


That's not even ridiculous... It's beyond ridiculous... It's RIDONKULOUS!!!!  What is going on???????????????/


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

dolfer said:


> That's not even ridiculous... It's beyond ridiculous... It's RIDONKULOUS!!!!  What is going on???????????????/


Going by the book we should call TiVo and complain and perhaps call TWC and complain. Has anyone actually tried that?

I haven't done it myself. Given the availability of a work-around (i.e., the "rebuild" guide data) my pain isn't enough to justify the pain of calling them and most likely getting no satisfaction.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

DLFL, I sent messages to both! I put the links way back on page one...

Tivo: http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/contactsupport/lineup_tool.html

TWC: https://www.timewarnercable.com/Cincinnati/about/contactus.ashx

I also reported it to Margaret Schmidt, Tivo's VP of User Experience via Twitter! / http://twitter.com/tivodesign She actually responded back to me several times...


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

dolfer said:


> DLFL, I sent messages to both! I put the links way back on page one...
> ........
> 
> I also reported it to Margaret Schmidt, Tivo's VP of User Experience via Twitter! / http://twitter.com/tivodesign She actually responded back to me several times...


Yeah, but has anyone contacted them after more than a week and complained about the ridiculous delay ? BTW, as you probably have experienced, there is a big delay involved in getting any response from a guide data problem form submission. Has anyone complained at TiVo's technical support phone number?

So did Margaret say anything interesting?


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

dlfl said:


> Yeah, but has anyone contacted them after more than a week and complained about the ridiculous delay ? BTW, as you probably have experienced, there is a big delay involved in getting any response from a guide data problem form submission. Has anyone complained at TiVo's technical support phone number?
> 
> So did Margaret say anything interesting?


Blamed it on TW! 

Go to Twitter and do a search for @dolfer (ME) and you can see all of the stuff she said...


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

dolfer said:


> ........Go to Twitter and do a search for @dolfer (ME) and you can see all of the stuff she said...


Do you have to sign up with Twitter to do this? I went to their web site and entered "@dolfer" in the search box, and got no results.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

1.
TiVo Margret Schmidt
[email protected] Was it "Preparing" during a network connection, or the orange screen you see when you reboot and are getting a service update?12:57 PM Aug 27th from web in reply to dolfer

2.
TiVo Margret Schmidt
[email protected] Correct, because HD channels have different "channel identifiers". Only works when the same channel just changes numbers.12:53 PM Aug 27th from web in reply to dolfer

3.
TiVo Margret Schmidt
[email protected] I think it is because TW has *added* a new lineup but not notified Tribune Media that the old one is no longer in use.12:52 PM Aug 27th from web in reply to dolfer

4.
TiVo Margret Schmidt
[email protected] Ouch! When/where did the freezes happen? (You SPs should move with the channels if the channel IDs stayed the same.)11:14 AM Aug 27th from Tweetie in reply to dolfer

5.
TiVo Margret Schmidt
[email protected] Did you try my suggestion of pressing ENTER on the Channel List in Settings? The new lineup should be there (we can see it).1:14 PM Aug 26th from web in reply to dolfer

6.
Happn.in Trendsetter
[email protected] You just set the trend for 'time warner' on @happn_in_cinci | http://happn.in/cinci/25aug...9:36 PM Aug 25th from API

7.
TiVo Margret Schmidt
[email protected] Go to TiVoCentral>Messages&Settings>Settings>Channels>ChannelList and press ENTER. Answer the ?s and it should fix the channels.1:58 PM Aug 25th from web in reply to dolfer

8.
TiVo Margret Schmidt
[email protected] Let me know your zip code and I will alert our data provider.


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## derspiess (Jul 10, 2007)

dolfer said:


> Unfortunately, in this Time Warner Cable region (Southwest Region / Greater Cincinnati) we have had to resort to using a rebuild lineup if we want the correct channels... There was a massive reorganization on *August 25th* and it's still not showing up as part of the normal (non-rebuild) lineup.
> 
> Thus anyone buying a new Tivo since that date would HAVE to use a rebuild lineup or else the channels wouldn't even be close!  Had I not changed them, I would have had to make manual recordings for all of my SPs with the new channel.
> 
> I have always felt that TWC does as little as possible to help out Tivo users. The bare minimum... They could care less that your channels are wrong. They are looking for any excuse whatsoever to get you to use one of their TERRIBLE DVRs. Instead of AT&T and Verizon, I wish Tivo would go after TW. Maybe that would adjust their attitude.


Stupid question: where do you see the rebuild lineup? I'm in Cincy as well & it just dawned on me last night that I would need to go back through the guided setup. After I entered my zip code & waited forever for Tivo to get me a list of lineups, all I saw was "Cincinnati" and "Cincinnati City". Tried "Cincinnati City" but got stuck 'preparing' to connect to Tivo 

Ran through the motions again this morning before I left for work but had to leave before Tivo displayed lineup choices. As if the lineup change SNAFU weren't sufficiently annoying, the abnormally slow connection to Tivo makes things even more infuriating.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

derspiess said:


> Stupid question: where do you see the rebuild lineup? I'm in Cincy as well & it just dawned on me last night that I would need to go back through the guided setup. After I entered my zip code & waited forever for Tivo to get me a list of lineups, all I saw was "Cincinnati" and "Cincinnati City". Tried "Cincinnati City" but got stuck 'preparing' to connect to Tivo
> 
> Ran through the motions again this morning before I left for work but had to leave before Tivo displayed lineup choices. As if the lineup change SNAFU weren't sufficiently annoying, the abnormally slow connection to Tivo makes things even more infuriating.


The "official" instructions from TiVo are in this post. If you follow that exactly and it doesn't work...... ????? (Of course don't select Dayton North Rebuild -- select the one for your area. And use your zip code.)

Note "Preparing to connect" may take a long time -- 20 mins in my case. The entire process took 50 mins for me.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

dlfl said:


> TiVo replied to a Guide Data error report I submitted shortly after the change and instructed me on doing a "portion of Guided Setup". In the instructions they said to select the "rebuild" lineup. Thus they knew about it then.


No. TiVo does not confirm guide changes from users. They forward the requests to Tribune who then works with the local cable company contact to confirm the changes. The issue is with the local TW contact and Tribune.


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## Stone1555 (Dec 19, 2008)

Interactive programming, including the interactive guide, is not available on CableCARD-equipped UDCPs - I am not taking sides on the argument, while it is an inconvenience for guide info to be wrong. It does lie in a grey area of responsibility b/c it is provided by a third party.

just my two cents. :/


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

rainwater said:


> No. TiVo does not confirm guide changes from users. They forward the requests to Tribune who then works with the local cable company contact to confirm the changes. The issue is with the local TW contact and Tribune.


There's no real argument here. What I originally said was that TiVo and TMS "have known about this change since about the time it occured (25 Aug)." Notice the phraseology "known about" (as opposed to "having final confirmation"). They had to know about it in order to instruct me to select the "rebuild" lineup.

Since they knew about it since at least the day it happened, I can only hope TiVo and TMS are being proactive about getting the changes confirmed by TWC. At this point I have to wonder if they are.


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## derspiess (Jul 10, 2007)

dlfl said:


> The "official" instructions from TiVo are in this post. If you follow that exactly and it doesn't work...... ????? (Of course don't select Dayton North Rebuild -- select the one for your area. And use your zip code.)


Thanks. I'll give it another shot tonight, but when I entered my zip last night (45230) it only came up with "Time Warner Cincinnati", "Time Warner Cincinnati City", and "Cincinnati Bell" (which was painful to see that 3rd option & not actually have that available to me yet!).

Maybe I'll try some other local zip codes & see if that gives me anything different.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

derspiess said:


> Thanks. I'll give it another shot tonight, but when I entered my zip last night (45230) it only came up with "Time Warner Cincinnati", "Time Warner Cincinnati City", and "Cincinnati Bell" (which was painful to see that 3rd option & not actually have that available to me yet!).
> 
> Maybe I'll try some other local zip codes & see if that gives me anything different.


Would that "third option" be the CinBell FiOptic service recently announced?

I called them and they said it was just beginning to be installed in a few places such as apartment complexes under construction. Guess how long it will take to reach me!


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## derspiess (Jul 10, 2007)

dlfl said:


> Would that "third option" be the CinBell FiOptic service recently announced?


Yep, pretty sure that's what it is.



> I called them and they said it was just beginning to be installed in a few places such as apartment complexes under construction. Guess how long it will take to reach me!


The Enquirer had an article about it several weeks ago when they did their silent launch (or pre-launch or whatever). I think they were starting out with just 500 homes. It will be ages before it reaches me, which is what made it so painful to see it on the menu.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Today I submitted my complaint/question about the lineup delay via the TWC email link given in *dolfer*'s earlier post.

I got two identical replies back saying:

_"Since we are technical support for cable service, we do not have updates about this. Please contact our local office at 513-469-1112 or 1-800-866-9767 and we will assist you with your request. 
Alternatively, you visit our local office...."_

Note that the first phone number they give is a Cinci local number. I'm in the Dayton area and they knew that because I had to fill in my address and account number just to be allowed to send the email. (There is a Dayton local TWC number.)

It isn't obvious to me why this isn't a topic for "technical support for cable service", but even if so, why don't they just forward my message to whoever should get it?

Just ranting .... I didn't expect anything better.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

TWC Southwest Ohio subscribers might be interested in this thread I started in the CoffeeHouse forum.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

dlfl said:


> There's no real argument here. What I originally said was that TiVo and TMS "have known about this change since about the time it occured (25 Aug)." Notice the phraseology "known about" (as opposed to "having final confirmation"). They had to know about it in order to instruct me to select the "rebuild" lineup.
> 
> Since they knew about it since at least the day it happened, I can only hope TiVo and TMS are being proactive about getting the changes confirmed by TWC. At this point I have to wonder if they are.


TiVo pays Tribune for this. TiVo does not have any control of how Tribune creates/changes lineups. TiVo can't verify and make guide data changes. And when you say TiVo has "known" about it, I don't get what you mean. They probably looked up your zip and saw a rebuild lineup. Ok, I guess they know there is a rebuild lineup, but I'm not sure what you expect them to do about it. The whole situation was messed up by TWC plain and simple.


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## Grumock (Dec 16, 2008)

rainwater said:


> TiVo pays Tribune for this. TiVo does not have any control of how Tribune creates/changes lineups. TiVo can't verify and make guide data changes. And when you say TiVo has "known" about it, I don't get what you mean. They probably looked up your zip and saw a rebuild lineup. Ok, I guess they know there is a rebuild lineup, but I'm not sure what you expect them to do about it. The whole situation was messed up by TWC plain and simple.


I find it funny how everyone on here always wants to blame the provider & not TIVo for not being proactive. They got their info from Tribune but they have not updated how does that become the providers fault. I am a TIVO user too but i am not naive enough to think it is always my provider. Just like it was TIVO who knowing about SDV did nothing to update their equipment. Or how like with Tru2way coming down the line they have no plans still to make their boxes tru2way compatible. I am just saying i wish they were more proactive & maybe a lot of our issues would be resolved.


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## Stone1555 (Dec 19, 2008)

Grumock said:


> I find it funny how everyone on here always wants to blame the provider & not TIVo for not being proactive. They got their info from Tribune but they have not updated how does that become the providers fault. I am a TIVO user too but i am not naive enough to think it is always my provider. Just like it was TIVO who knowing about SDV did nothing to update their equipment. Or how like with Tru2way coming down the line they have no plans still to make their boxes tru2way compatible. I am just saying i wish they were more proactive & maybe a lot of our issues would be resolved.


:up:


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Grumock said:


> I find it funny how everyone on here always wants to blame the provider & not TIVo for not being proactive. They got their info from Tribune but they have not updated how does that become the providers fault.


TiVo updates guide data from Tribune at least once a day. So I have no clue what you mean. TiVo is using the exact data that Tribune is providing. TiVo does not have the ability to manage lineups. The fact that Tribune created a separate lineup is the fault of Tribune and TWC. TiVo can't magically make that the default lineup.


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## Grumock (Dec 16, 2008)

rainwater said:


> TiVo updates guide data from Tribune at least once a day. So I have no clue what you mean. TiVo is using the exact data that Tribune is providing. TiVo does not have the ability to manage lineups. The fact that Tribune created a separate lineup is the fault of Tribune and TWC. TiVo can't magically make that the default lineup.


well after TWC gives Tribune the channels update, are they supposed to follow every third party piece of equipment on their system, to make sure they update their lineups?


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## Stone1555 (Dec 19, 2008)

Interactive programming, including the interactive guide, is not available on CableCARD-equipped UDCPs - I'm gonna have to stick with this. The service provider dosn't provide the guide, just the info. But the way its managed or distributed has nothing to do with the service provider... Gotta love tivo, gotta hate it


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## shortone (Sep 2, 2009)

I think people need to do more research before throwing stones. I also have a Tivo, but I know what the Tivo is responsible for and what the cable provider is responsible for. Does not take much research to find out what you need to know. I am in full agreement with Grumock.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

We don't know enough to place blame! It clearly could be TWC not providing a final authorized version of the data. Or it could be TMS or TiVo not doing what they're supposed to. It's a chain and any bad link will cause a problem.

Obviously it isn't working very well. My only comment has been I hope TMS and TiVo are being proactive. *rainwater* asks what more they could do? What I hope they would do is bugging the next party up the chain, asking "where is it?".

Everyone in the chain knows there is a problem (specifically we have only a rebuild lineup 8 days after the switch). Even if TiVo or TMS have to wait for the next party up the chain, they could be pushing on our behalf. (Maybe they are doing that.)

Sure would be nice if there was more transparency to this 3-link chain so we could know who to blame.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Grumock said:


> well after TWC gives Tribune the channels update, are they supposed to follow every third party piece of equipment on their system, to make sure they update their lineups?


Who is they? Tribune provides the guide data. TiVo has no ability to make changes to it on the stand alone TiVos. I'm not sure what you are asking TiVo to do here. The channel update messages are automatic and based on changes Tribune makes. TiVo has no ability to do anything other than provide the different lineups that Tribune gives them.


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## derspiess (Jul 10, 2007)

Small update for anyone interested. I went through the guided setup again yesterday evening & selected "Cincinnati - City" again. A watched pot never boils, so I left the Tivo alone & did something else for an hour or so. Came back to find most of the new channels listed correctly. Some of them are listed twice, and some are completely wrong. 

I don't think there was program information available for anything when I checked before I went to bed, but at least I can get to my ESPN HD channels now in time for the college football season. I just hope they have everything else fixed before my wife's season passes are affected.

I had submitted a ticket (or whatever Tivo calls it) asking for help on the channel lineup issue, and the Tivo support rep emailed me back to tell me to essentially do what I had already done (guided setup, select "Cincinnati - City").


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## Grumock (Dec 16, 2008)

rainwater said:


> Who is they? Tribune provides the guide data. TiVo has no ability to make changes to it on the stand alone TiVos. I'm not sure what you are asking TiVo to do here. The channel update messages are automatic and based on changes Tribune makes. TiVo has no ability to do anything other than provide the different lineups that Tribune gives them.


Sorry thought I was clear. Is TWC suposed to follow up all the third party equipment on their plant to make sure that whoever it is, is updated. I try to remind myself that I am only 1 of the 25-40,000 tivo subscribers on TWC, who has i think over 3 million total subscribers. Not that it is an excuse!


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Grumock said:


> ........... I try to remind myself that I am only 1 of the 25-40,000 tivo subscribers on TWC, who has i think over 3 million total subscribers.......


Where did you get these numbers?

I'm particularly interested in the # for TiVo subscribers. In a recent thread an estimate of around 0.5% was developed for the national average of digital cable-capable TiVo's as a fraction of digital cable subscribers (for all cable cos). Your number (25-40,000) is consistent with that if your number for TWC TiVo subscribers is used as the base.

However, I don't know what your 3 million number represents. TWC's total numbers for basic- and digital-cable are 13.0M and 8.8M repectively. 3M is too high to be the SW Ohio number and too low for a national number. (???).

If you apply 0.5% to the TWC national digital number, you get 44,000, which is pretty close to your TiVo number. This would be digital-capable TiVo's, not total TiVo's.

Your basic point is correct of course -- we are a pimple on TWC's business plan!


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## Grumock (Dec 16, 2008)

dlfl said:


> Where did you get these numbers?
> 
> I'm particularly interested in the # for TiVo subscribers.  In a recent thread an estimate of around 0.5% was developed for the national average of digital cable-capable TiVo's as a fraction of digital cable subscribers (for all cable cos). Your number (25-40,000) is consistent with that if your number for TWC TiVo subscribers is used as the base.
> 
> ...


sorry my second estimate was just that, a guess.


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## dulac97 (Sep 7, 2009)

Channel lineup is now updated for TW Cincinnati. Was able to finally get the correct listings last night (after waiting for 10 days!) Had to go under Settings > Channels > Channel lineup and then Enter>thumbs down 3 times + Enter to rebuild the lineup. Then had to reboot the Tuning Adapter and then reboot the Tivo. Some of the Season passes corrected automatically, though others I had to reprogram manually.

Everything looks like it should!


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## gamo62 (Oct 12, 2002)

dulac97 said:


> Channel lineup is now updated for TW Cincinnati. Was able to finally get the correct listings last night (after waiting for 10 days!) Had to go under Settings > Channels > Channel lineup and then Enter>thumbs down 3 times + Enter to rebuild the lineup. Then had to reboot the Tuning Adapter and then reboot the Tivo. Some of the Season passes corrected automatically, though others I had to reprogram manually.
> 
> Everything looks like it should!


I have noticed that since the the new lineup went into effect, I have had issues with the 2 out of the three local network channels pixelating to the point where I lose the signal. I know WCPO increased their power, but the reason still eludes me. Once the new lineup took effect, I just did repeated the guided setup and all was good.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Grumock said:


> Sorry thought I was clear. Is TWC suposed to follow up all the third party equipment on their plant to make sure that whoever it is, is updated. I try to remind myself that I am only 1 of the 25-40,000 tivo subscribers on TWC, who has i think over 3 million total subscribers. Not that it is an excuse!


Tribune guide data is used by a lot more than just TiVos. The guide data is reflected in many forms. If TW cares about their customers they will make sure Tribune has the correct changes. All TiVo can do is nudge Tribune to contact TW. In the end, TW is the one who has to fix these situations.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

rainwater said:


> Tribune guide data is used by a lot more than just TiVos. The guide data is reflected in many forms. If TW cares about their customers they will make sure Tribune has the correct changes. All TiVo can do is nudge Tribune to contact TW. In the end, TW is the one who has to fix these situations.


I know TMS data is used by TiVo and Zap2it.com. Where else is it used?


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

dulac97 said:


> Channel lineup is now updated for TW Cincinnati. Was able to finally get the correct listings last night (after waiting for 10 days!) Had to go under Settings > Channels > Channel lineup and then Enter>thumbs down 3 times + Enter to rebuild the lineup. Then had to reboot the Tuning Adapter and then reboot the Tivo. Some of the Season passes corrected automatically, though others I had to reprogram manually.
> 
> Everything looks like it should!


Do you know if this is the ACTUAL Time Warner Cable official lineup??? Or did you use the "rebuild" like several people on this thread did???

The rebuild lineup was available a long time ago by using the method you just described.

I don't think the "official / non-rebuild" lineup will be there until we get the "Tivo has detected a change in your lineup" message. Which at this rate, appears to be NEVER...


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

dlfl said:


> I know TMS data is used by TiVo and Zap2it.com. Where else is it used?


Almost any major website that uses guide data is using Tribune data. Moxi boxes (including the new standalone boxes) use Tribune guide data as well.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

dulac97 said:


> Channel lineup is now updated for TW Cincinnati. Was able to finally get the correct listings last night (after waiting for 10 days!) Had to go under Settings > Channels > Channel lineup and then Enter>thumbs down 3 times + Enter to rebuild the lineup. Then had to reboot the Tuning Adapter and then reboot the Tivo. Some of the Season passes corrected automatically, though others I had to reprogram manually.
> 
> Everything looks like it should!


dulac, could you go into "System Information" and look at "Cable Lineup" and tell us what it says????

Mine says "Digital Rebuild"...


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

Dear Cincinnati Bell FiOptics Service, 

Greater Cincinnnati needs you! Please get widely deployed soon! 

And please be better than Time Warner... 

1. Report your lineup changes immediately to the Tribune (and any other such services)

2. Do not use copyprotection on digital channels that DO NOT require it! 

If you do these two things, you'll probably have a boatload of Tivo subscribers on board immediately!


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## Vesper (Dec 19, 2001)

Time Warner here in Milwaukee is doing a complete channel overhaul on 10/13. Are there any steps I can take to try to help this go smoothly? Perhaps submitting a "lineup issue" ticket to Tivo before it even takes place? Also, I know that the Tuning Adapter does a "Getting channel map" whenever you reboot. Does this take care of channel lineup changes?


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Vesper said:


> Time Warner here in Milwaukee is doing a complete channel overhaul on 10/13. Are there any steps I can take to try to help this go smoothly? Perhaps submitting a "lineup issue" ticket to Tivo before it even takes place? Also, I know that the Tuning Adapter does a "Getting channel map" whenever you reboot. Does this take care of channel lineup changes?


I submitted a lineup issue before our big switch but I don't know if it does any good -- can't hurt so why not?

The TA reboot will take care of getting your channels. You may need to go into Channels on the TiVo and do some checking/unchecking too. Getting the right guide data is another thing. Nothing you can do in advance on that anyway.

I recommend you start a new thread on this Milwaukee switch, but read this thread to see some of the problems we had with the guide data. When you actually get the switch and post issues in your new thread, some of us will see it and try to help.

I am still running with a "rebuilt" channel lineup whereas we thought the rebuilt lineup was to be temporary. The available lineups, just as seen by your TiVo in guided setup, can be found at zap2it.com. I check there now and then and there is never a valid lineup choice for my zip code other than the "rebuilt" version.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

I just noticed on zap2it.com that the North Dayton Digital (*Not the rebuild version)* is now *correct* for my zip code! I've been checking it every few days and until now it has been the old incorrect lineup.

I suspect this means it's time to switch from "rebuild", as earlier posters have said it will eventually stop being updated.

Gee, I wonder if TiVo will notify us of this?


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

dlfl said:


> I just noticed on zap2it.com that the North Dayton Digital (*Not the rebuild version)* is now *correct* for my zip code! I've been checking it every few days and until now it has been the old incorrect lineup.
> 
> I suspect this means it's time to switch from "rebuild", as earlier posters have said it will eventually stop being updated.
> 
> Gee, I wonder if TiVo will notify us of this?


Consider yourself notified... Kind of... I got a message today saying that Tivo has detected that my lineup was no longer valid. It gave me the option to run guided setup but when I chose that option it gave me some crazy message about not doing it because I previously indicated that I don't use cable?????  Nonetheless, I am in the process of re-running guided set up the regular way.

Let me know if you get the whacky message.

Glad you posted this. Hopefully I am not going through this hassle for nothing! Hopefully it will be the legit lineup we have been waiting nearly two months for...


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Haven't got any message yet but I notice the rebuild lineup is no longer a choice for my zip code at zap2it.com. I'm going to be out of town for the next three days.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

dolfer said:


> Consider yourself notified... Kind of... I got a message today saying that Tivo has detected that my lineup was no longer valid. It gave me the option to run guided setup but when I chose that option it gave me some crazy message about not doing it because I previously indicated that I don't use cable?????  Nonetheless, I am in the process of re-running guided set up the regular way.
> 
> Let me know if you get the whacky message.
> 
> Glad you posted this. Hopefully I am not going through this hassle for nothing! Hopefully it will be the legit lineup we have been waiting nearly two months for...


I got this message or messages. The one saying that my lineup was no longer valid and the one about not using cable. Looking at my System Information screen, it now shows Time Warner Cable South Dayton instead of the rebuild lineup, and I did not redo guided setup.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

realityboy said:


> I got this message or messages. The one saying that my lineup was no longer valid and the one about not using cable. Looking at my System Information screen, it now shows Time Warner Cable South Dayton instead of the rebuild lineup, and I did not redo guided setup.


Not sure if I needed to redo Guided Setup but I did it anyway. I feel better now that it's done! 

The main hassle was going through and pruning channels for the guide.

It now no longer mentions "rebuild". It says "Time Warner" for provider and just "Digital" for the lineup.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

dolfer said:


> Not sure if I needed to redo Guided Setup but I did it anyway. I feel better now that it's done!
> 
> The main hassle was going through and pruning channels for the guide.
> 
> It now no longer mentions "rebuild". It says "Time Warner" for provider and just "Digital" for the lineup.


I kept getting that message (once a day when it connected) so I went ahead and redid it also. I haven't got around to pruning channels since it is kind of a pain.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

realityboy said:


> I kept getting that message (once a day when it connected) so I went ahead and redid it also. I haven't got around to pruning channels since it is kind of a pain.


*ESPECIALLY* since a single channel can reside in _multiple_ locations!


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

dolfer said:


> Not sure if I needed to redo Guided Setup but I did it anyway. I feel better now that it's done!
> 
> The main hassle was going through and pruning channels for the guide.
> 
> It now no longer mentions "rebuild". It says "Time Warner" for provider and just "Digital" for the lineup.


I was out of town for 2.5 days and on returning tonight I see my System Info says the same as yours (Digital, but no "rebuild"). Never saw a message about it. That was easy!

Also, my Turner Classic Movie channel is now having terrible pixelation and sound break ups. It's always been my worst channel but lately it seems even worse. It will be OK for a few minutes then more break ups, and not just one or two at a time. I wonder how other SW OH TWC users are doing on this channel?


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## pmnick (Jun 23, 2002)

Columbus, OH got this update yesterday, noticed that one of my SPs didn't record the right channel, glad I found this thread! I just selected what I hope is the "correct" channel lineup (Time Warner Columbus) and am stuck with "preparing" to get program info.

Unfortunately, neither TW nor TiVo have learned from this fiasco, I did not get any "lineup change" notices and even a forced call and reboot didn't get me the correct lineup....


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

pmnick said:


> Columbus, OH got this update yesterday, noticed that one of my SPs didn't record the right channel, glad I found this thread! I just selected what I hope is the "correct" channel lineup (Time Warner Columbus) and am stuck with "preparing" to get program info.
> 
> Unfortunately, neither TW nor TiVo have learned from this fiasco, I did not get any "lineup change" notices and even a forced call and reboot didn't get me the correct lineup....


Be sure to look at my post #95 .


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## pmnick (Jun 23, 2002)

dlfl said:


> Be sure to look at my post #95 .


This helped, and I can access all of the premium and digital channels in the new lineup by manually switching channels. However, the numbers still don't match (the guide data thinks channel 201 is HBO, not USA, but the channel shows USA programming).....

Everything is okay from 1 - 75, but all the higher channels aren't matching :-(


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

pmnick said:


> This helped, and I can access all of the premium and digital channels in the new lineup by manually switching channels. However, the numbers still don't match (the guide data thinks channel 201 is HBO, not USA, but the channel shows USA programming).....
> 
> Everything is okay from 1 - 75, but all the higher channels aren't matching :-(


Browse to zap2it.com
Click Listings
Click Change my location
Enter your zip code
Now you should see all the possible lineups for your area. TiVo uses one of these lineups. (Some of them are for non-cable services obviously.) Examine the different cable lineups and see if one of them matches your new channels. This is the one that should be selected when you run the "portion of guided setup" in post #95.

Sometimes people have had to use a neighboring zip code in order to get a valid TiVo lineup.

If this doesn't fix it, you need to contact TiVo support and/or file a guide data error report with TiVo. Most likely the real problem is that TWC hasn't submitted the correct lineup to Tribune Media Services, which supplies it to both TiVo and zap2it.com. You can complain to TWC also -- good luck with that!


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

I've picked up several new HD channels that weren't on the guide pamphlet TWC mailed me for the 25 Aug lineup change:

1101 DXDHD
1140 BIOHD
1323 VSHD
1351 HLNHD
1354 MNBCHD
1370 TWCHD

My TiVo gave me a message about DXDHD but nothing about the others.

I have the North Dayton Digital lineup and the minimum digital service. I am billed for Basic, Standard and Digital Variety packages.

If I go to the web lineup page and select just the packages I'm billed for, it comes up many channels short of those I get or those in the pamphlet. I'm not sure there's any way to know exactly what channels you're supposed to get. I guess this confusion is consistent with the way TWC botched the guide data for 25 August too.


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## bobrt6676 (Dec 31, 2007)

dlfl said:


> I've picked up several new HD channels that weren't on the guide pamphlet TWC mailed me for the 25 Aug lineup change:
> 
> 1101 DXDHD
> 1140 BIOHD
> ...


I received the same message. BUT if you channel down the message you get the rest of the channels.
New channels
1101dxdhd
1140 biohd
1155 travhd
1208 ehd
1277 amchd
1317 speedhd
1323 vshd
1351 hlnhd
1354 mnbchd
1370 twchd
deleted 1101 disnhd


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

bobrt6676 said:


> I received the same message. BUT if you channel down the message you get the rest of the channels.
> New channels
> 1101dxdhd
> 1140 biohd
> ...


Thanks,

I already deleted the message but it must have been the same as yours.

I get all the channels you list except 1317 Speedhd. Have you checked to see if you can tune that one? I power-cycled the TA and cycled the USB connection. It's not giving the "Tuning adapter doesn't provide that channel" message and guide data is there, but a black screen. I'll have to call TWC to get it authorized or whatever, I guess.

EDIT: Pretty sure I'm not supposed to get Speedhd (or speed SD). I don't have the "package" to get that.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

dlfl said:


> Thanks,
> 
> I already deleted the message but it must have been the same as yours.
> 
> ...


I get SpeedHD. I'm not sure which package it is in although I know it isn't sports package since I don't have those.

The guide data is wrong for DisneyHD and DXDHD. They added DXDHD which is now channel 1102, but the guide says that it is 1101 and Disney HD is no longer there.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

realityboy said:


> I get SpeedHD. I'm not sure which package it is in although I know it isn't sports package since I don't have those...........


What packages are you billed for? I'm billed for Basic, Standard and Digital Variety. TWC insists that doesn't include Speed (HD or SD).


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

dlfl said:


> What packages are you billed for? I'm billed for Basic, Standard and Digital Variety. TWC insists that doesn't include Speed (HD or SD).


Those plus Digital Choice. I think Speed is in Digital Choice.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

realityboy said:


> Those plus Digital Choice. I think Speed is in Digital Choice.


Yeah, thanks! That's the way the SD Speed channel was handled per the glossy lineup pamphlet they sent for the 25 August lineup change. In there it's in the Sports Package but there's a note that says it's also in the Digital Choice package.

Even TWC reps consider their lineup packages chaotic. The lineup web page is unuseable AFAIC -- better used as a game for little kids to make all the different colored blocks light up!


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Most of the packages make no sense. Variety and Choice both seem to just be collections of random channels while the Sports package includes the Game Show Network.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

realityboy said:


> ........The guide data is wrong for DisneyHD and DXDHD. They added DXDHD which is now channel 1102, but the guide says that it is 1101 and Disney HD is no longer there.


What I'm seeing is 1101 and 1102 both tune and, based on the logos in the video itself, 1101 is Disney Channel HD and 1102 is Disney XD HD.

1101 has guide data for DXDHD (wrong) and 1102 has no guide data but it says DisnXDH in the guide panel (this comes via the CableCARD/TA).

The zap2it lineup for me (North Dayton Digital) has only 1101 and says it's DXDHD, which seems to match the guide errors in the TiVo.

Guess what? TWC is failing to update TMS again, just like for 25 August!


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

If your issue is particular to TWC SW Ohio but not related to the 25 August lineup change, I invite you to post in the new *Time Warner Southwest Ohio, All Problems *thread, which I started just for this purpose.


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