# 21 New HD Channels live today (9/26)



## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

See here for details: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=97211
or here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=914047

21 new HD channels are live making 31 total not including any HD locals or RSNs you might get in your area.

About 40 more are expected according to press releases by the end of October including many RSNs.

And before you ask, to receive the new channels you need:
* MPEG4 receiver (H20/21 or HR20)
* 5 LNB dish
* BBand converters (or an SWM)
* Zinwell multiswitch if you require one

Have fun!


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

Yeah good... but I wonder how much actual HD content is really there yet?


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

A lot, from my sampling this morning. Even the Weather Channel, which I would not have expected to gain much from being in HD, looks a lot better.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

hiker said:


> Yeah good... but I wonder how much actual HD content is really there yet?


Uhhhhh, most of it?  Even CNN is in full HD except when doing broadcasts from the Atlanta studios.

These are the same HD channels that Dish and cable have been adding or will add. Nothing new there. The channels themselves determine what is actually in HD on the channel (remember when ESPN HD was just a couple games a week in HD and SD the rest of the time?) So if the content you want isn't in HD then don't bother with it. Personally it will be nice to convert a dozen or so SD season passes like Dirty Jobs and Mythbusters to HD.


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

Reading through the dbstalk threads on individual channels (dbstalk forum here), a lot of reports of upconverted AND stretched content. Are you saying that all content on CNN-HD is true HD?


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Until all news channels have HD cameras in the field, there can't be true HD all of the time. They may have 16:9 standard def cameras which can look pretty good.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

hiker said:


> Reading through the dbstalk threads on individual channels (dbstalk forum here), a lot of reports of upconverted AND stretched content. Are you saying that all content on CNN-HD is true HD?


From what I read on AVS, any studio shows that come from New York on in HD but any from Atlanta will not be because it's not converted to HD yet. Obviously anything in the field would only be HD if they had HD camera's to cover the story.

Just like say NBC nightly news. Studio is in HD but not all the stories or in the field reports are in HD.
Or even ESPN still. Studio is in HD but not all programming is in HD.

Just like with SciFi channel goes HD next month. I highly doubt it will be HD 24x7. But you can bet all their "big shows" that most people watch will be in HD (like BSG and Stargate).

TNT-HD is SD upconverted when not showing HD.

There is nothing different about any of these channels over all the other HD channels that are out there over the past 6 years.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

bonscott87 said:


> There is nothing different about any of these channels over all the other HD channels that are out there over the past 6 years.


Only not everyone has the equipment already to view them, so the relative value vs upgrade could be an issue for some. For others it's a way to say "I don't even want what I can't get!"


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

I've been watching the smithsonian channel and history channel. Both are showing HD content.


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

And that's the nail in the coffin for the HR10-250!  

It was nice while it lasted!

Man, the new stuff does look good. CNN-HD looks great now. much better PQ even when it's not HD!


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## CessnaDriver (Oct 25, 2003)

Yes, see y'all later!  

The PQ on the new channels is stunning!


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

According to Satguys the PQ seems actually as good as FIOS. That is certainly amazing if true. I'm sure the boys at AVS will have some numbers soon in the coming days. I can't wait to get home and see for myself.


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## xtc (Jan 22, 2005)

All the Starz HD channels are not working even though they are part of the rollout of new HD channels today. I called up DirecTV and they said they should be up by the end of this month.


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## Mavrick22 (Feb 7, 2006)

Why do we have 2 threads on this?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=367587


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Because one just isn't enough for something so major?


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Probably because not everyone visits the other forums on this board.


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## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

I got my HR20 out of the box to try the new channels. I didn't think they looked much better but it may have been the content. Also, none of these channels override my dislike for the HR20. It went back in the box.

I will try again when they get the scifi channel out and hopefully USA.

ps. I only had to get the HR20 out of the box because the one in my son's room has already died after 5 weeks. Technician coming out in 3 days - maybe it knows I dont like it..........


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

gio1269 said:


> And that's the nail in the coffin for the HR10-250!
> 
> It was nice while it lasted!...


Well, not quite yet and not for everybody. I was prepared for a pang of jealousy, being disenfranchised from the new content (by my own choice), but I can't remember the last time I could be bothered to watch anything on any single one of the new channels, so I don't think I'd be missing anything at all, even if more than about 15% of the content (heck, even if 100% of the content) were actually in HD.

I guess that pang will have to wait a month, but I'm not even sure it will happen then. I can easily count on the fingers of one hand the programs I watch on DTV that I don't already get in HD, and it doesn't seem that any of those would be HD for some time, regardless of whether they launch HD channels for them on DTV.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

coachO said:


> ...I will try again when they get the scifi channel out and hopefully USA.
> 
> ps. I only had to get the HR20 out of the box because the one in my son's room has already died after 5 weeks. Technician coming out in 3 days - maybe it knows I dont like it..........


I think you might be giving it waaaay too much credit. It's obviously not that smart.

Do you expect much HD content on USA and SCIFI? I might have continued with "The 4400" if it had been in HD.

Naaah, probably not.


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

gio1269 said:


> And that's the nail in the coffin for the HR10-250!


I still love my HR10-250. I have 3 DVR's on my main 55" Living Room TV. I have the HR10-250 that I use to record all the SD Stuff and NBC HD since its the only local I can get waivered for. I have an S3 with Comcast that I use to record ABC HD, CBS HD, Fox HD, and CW HD programs. Then I have an HR20-700 that I am using for all the new HD channels and what doesn't fit on the first 2 boxes. Some nights I have all 6 tuners running at 8pm - 10pm.

-Joe


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## Ed Campbell (Jul 13, 2002)

coachO said:


> I got my HR20 out of the box to try the new channels. I didn't think they looked much better but it may have been the content. Also, none of these channels override my dislike for the HR20. It went back in the box.
> 
> I will try again when they get the scifi channel out and hopefully USA.
> 
> ps. I only had to get the HR20 out of the box because the one in my son's room has already died after 5 weeks. Technician coming out in 3 days - maybe it knows I dont like it..........


Send back the new one, too. I'm ready to get a second one and I'm concerned about short supply.


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## Mavrick22 (Feb 7, 2006)

xtc said:


> All the Starz HD channels are not working even though they are part of the rollout of new HD channels today. I called up DirecTV and they said they should be up by the end of this month.


They worked for me first thing yesterday morning and worked all day and are still working right now so I think that they are on and that you might have another problem. I know I have read where some have had to have Directv remove Starz from their account and then readd it for the channels to start working.


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## daperlman (Jan 25, 2002)

So did I read those threads wrong... or would they (new channels) still work on hr10-250?

I just switched to HR20 and its season pass feature blows... particularly when you cancel one instance of an episode of something.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

I can't really decipher your SL complaint, but no the new channels will not work on the HR10-250.


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## daperlman (Jan 25, 2002)

Billy66 said:


> I can't really decipher your SL complaint, but no the new channels will not work on the HR10-250.


So we got that going for us.. 
Re: season pass on HR20
IOW let's say you have a season pass for Weeds (same ep on showtime a bunch of times in 72 hour period). It is scheduled for 10pm tonight... but when the sw asks you if it is ok to change over to record it, you say "no - stay on current channel" cause you are watching something. Tivo SP would have just grabbed thee next instance of that ep of weeds (when there wasn't a conflict) HR20 often just skips that week of the show.


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## joelq (Oct 9, 2006)

Ed Campbell said:


> Send back the new one, too. I'm ready to get a second one and I'm concerned about short supply.


It appears they already are in short supply. I'm hearing stories from folks in my area that were supposed to be installed this week but got a call from DirecTV postponing because of a shortage on the equipment.

They are being told October 24th as a date they might have more.


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

Does anyone know if the 2007 NFL games carried on NFL Network HD (1st game on 11/22) will be mpeg4 only?


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=367587


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## xtc (Jan 22, 2005)

Mavrick22 said:


> They worked for me first thing yesterday morning and worked all day and are still working right now so I think that they are on and that you might have another problem. I know I have read where some have had to have Directv remove Starz from their account and then readd it for the channels to start working.


Yeah I realized that later and called DirecTV and they did that. They're on now.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

hiker said:


> Does anyone know if the 2007 NFL games carried on NFL Network HD (1st game on 11/22) will be mpeg4 only?


Since the channel is mpeg4 I would assume that anything carried on it will also be mpeg4 only.


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

HiDefGator said:


> Since the channel is mpeg4 I would assume that anything carried on it will also be mpeg4 only.


IIRC, last season they were carried in mpeg2 on chan 95 so I guess we will have to see. I have NFL ST/SF - the games should be included even though they are not on a Sunday.


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

In honor of this historical HD event, I called D* Yesterday to cancel my account ( which I suspended in June).

When they asked why, I said " No Tivo, no Customer". They went into the ..."well but we offer the HR20, which is just as good, blah, blah, blah...." I finally shut up the rep to get on with the cancellation when I said Look, I have two S3 Tivos with three yr contracts, cancel the account.

Frankly, I am really gald to be done with D* - their business model of tying to get all customer up to $100/mo bill and endless 2 yr contracts was getting old.

Y'all enjoy your new HD content. That's what it's all about anyway. Rock on


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

hiker said:


> Yeah good... but I wonder how much actual HD content is really there yet?


You are sounding like one of the Cable Crowd now. Why do people just not face the facts. Directv will be the leader in HD very very soon. Offering many more channels than anyone else.

Yes it is even better than FIOS!

And it is very very good Picture quality. Even the News looks more interesting!

The end is coming closer for the HR10-250. Let it die a graceful Death.


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

wolflord11 said:


> You are sounding like one of the Cable Crowd now.
> ...


No, not really. I do have Comcast and an S3, but I've been with D* since '94 and will stay until NFL ST is not an exclusive. I have 8 HR10's to switch over so I'm waiting until I'm forced.

I'm skeptical about mpeg4 PQ. I tried DISH mpeg4 (622 DVR) and it didn't come close to OTA or Cable HD PQ. Have not seen D*'s mpeg4 but have read reports about poor PQ on locals here in my area.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

hiker said:


> IIRC, last season they were carried in mpeg2 on chan 95 so I guess we will have to see. I have NFL ST/SF - the games should be included even though they are not on a Sunday.


Think they are talking about the new NFL Network HD that is included in the new MPEG4 channels - on channel 212


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

Remember Directv is also in the middle of a major upgrade: Birds, New Channels, Equipment etc.

So it will be some time before everything is finished with.

Our Locals were poor here, but lately they have been great except for one channel, and thats the main one I view the most... lol.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

rmassey said:


> Frankly, I am really gald to be done with D* - their business model of tying to get all customer up to $100/mo bill...


In over 10 years with DirecTV they have called me maybe 6 times to try to sell me showtime. How exactly did they try to get your bill to $100/month? Clearly they are neglecting me and I want something done about it.


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

HiDefGator said:


> In over 10 years with DirecTV they have called me maybe 6 times to try to sell me showtime. How exactly did they try to get your bill to $100/month? Clearly they are neglecting me and I want something done about it.


OK $100 is an exageration. But when I suspended in June my bill was $59 with no HD Pkg, No premium Pkg, not even total choice plus.

So what is the average cost of D* programming required to get the new HD programming. My guess is somewhere near $70-80/mo. Close enough to $100.

My Tivo bill for 1 S3 and 1 THD is $15.26/mo and analog cable is 0$ with my HSI service.


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## JRAllas (Mar 26, 2006)

hiker said:


> Are you saying that all content on CNN-HD is true HD?


You'd be damn lucky if content on CNN was true!


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

rmassey said:


> endless 2 yr contracts was getting old.


Hmmmm. I didn't realize Tivo dropped their 1, 2 and *3* year contracts.  Rock on!


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

rmassey said:


> OK $100 is an exageration. But when I suspended in June my bill was $59 with no HD Pkg, No premium Pkg, not even total choice plus.
> 
> So what is the average cost of D* programming required to get the new HD programming. My guess is somewhere near $70-80/mo. Close enough to $100.
> 
> My Tivo bill for 1 S3 and 1 THD is $15.26/mo and analog cable is 0$ with my HSI service.


So you pay $15.26 a Month for a Series 3 and TivoHD. BUT: how much programming do you really get for $0.00? Not that much I would assume.

Also, how much did you have to invest with Tivo in order to get the Series 3 and TivoHD? The Cost of the equipment would of been close to paying for 1 Years Service with Directv. And that is the exact same cost as your Term of Service with Tivo right?

So in effect you have paid exactly the same with Tivo as you would of paid with Directv and enjoy little TV Programming. That just makes no sense at all...lol


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> Hmmmm. I didn't realize Tivo dropped their 1, 2 and *3* year contracts.  Rock on!


LOL. No he dropped the 2 Year Commitment and went with a 3 Year one instead because he loves Cable and Tivo so much. Which would also mean you are effectivily tying yourself to 3 years of Cable Commitment to.... just to enjoy your Tivos.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

wolflord11 said:


> LOL. No he dropped the 2 Year Commitment and went with a 3 Year one instead because he loves Cable and Tivo so much. Which would also mean you are effectivily tying yourself to 3 years of Cable Commitment to.... just to enjoy your Tivos.


Why are you guys on a Tivo forum making fun of a guy who left DirecTV because he wanted to stay with Tivo? I can understand that kind of behavior on the dbstalk forum, but this is a Tivo forum. Is it so hard for you folks to believe that a lot of us prefer the Tivo over who provides the signal? Do you have to come over here and insult everyone who says they left DirecTV just because they didn't want to sign up for a 2-year commitment with a product they don't want?

I wish someone else were put on a week's corner time.


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

bonscott87 said:


> Hmmmm. I didn't realize Tivo dropped their 1, 2 and *3* year contracts.  Rock on!


Yeah I knew this one was coming my way....

Difference to *me* is, I chose to opt for the three yr Tivo contract (to keep fees down), whereas D* gives you no option.... I am pretty much certain I want to receive guide data and record HD for the next three years, which is all I am paying Tivo for BTW. Oh and also my Tivo fees are $15.26/mo compared to $60-70/mo with D*.


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

wolflord11 said:


> So you pay $15.26 a Month for a Series 3 and TivoHD. BUT: how much programming do you really get for $0.00? Not that much I would assume.
> 
> Also, how much did you have to invest with Tivo in order to get the Series 3 and TivoHD? The Cost of the equipment would of been close to paying for 1 Years Service with Directv. And that is the exact same cost as your Term of Service with Tivo right?
> 
> So in effect you have paid exactly the same with Tivo as you would of paid with Directv and enjoy little TV Programming. That just makes no sense at all...lol


Yes, but I am paying for things I value - Tivo hardware and Tivo service. I do not value D* content, so why should I pay for it?

If you value D* content and don't mind two year contracts with no choice in the matter and are fine with comitting to $70/mo then rock on. As a consumer you can do that. I choose not to.


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

wolflord11 said:


> LOL. No he dropped the 2 Year Commitment and went with a 3 Year one instead because he loves Cable and Tivo so much. Which would also mean you are effectivily tying yourself to 3 years of Cable Commitment to.... just to enjoy your Tivos.


Boy you really just do not get it do you?

99% of what I watch is FREE OTA HD. I do not care about the new or existing D* HD content. It is of no value to me. So why would I want to pay for it. I don't care about cable and it cost me $0 with HSI, which I paid for anyways.

I purchased an S3 Tivo and pre paid the service because it's lower cost (3 yr cost S3 $406 + 300 = $706 vs. D* - $70 * 36 = $2520) and I know that I want to watch and record local HD networks for the next three years.

Not everyone is addicted to ESPN, SHO, HBO and CNN you know.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

rmassey said:


> Boy you really just do not get it do you?
> 
> 99% of what I watch is FREE OTA HD. I do not care about the new or existing D* HD content. It is of no value to me. So why would I want to pay for it.
> 
> ...


You didn't really make that clear before. Not sure why you were with DirecTV in the first place.

You're not really making a choice against DirecTV (or Dish or Cable for that matter). You simply watch OTA only and since that is the case anything else is a waste of money. A Tivo HD works perfect for you.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

rmassey said:


> I purchased an S3 Tivo and pre paid the service because it's lower cost (3 yr cost S3 $406 + 300 = $706 vs. D* - $70 * 36 = $2520) and I know that I want to watch and record local HD networks for the next three years.


And you are really misrepresenting cost here. You're comparing cost of content. I very valid comparison.

But the cost here being talked about is more like $15 a month for Tivo vs. the $5.99 a month DVR fee to DirecTV. What programming you get on top of that for either option is only relevant to you. But comparing the DVR costs is what's at hand.


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

> How exactly did they try to get your bill to $100/month?


Oh and BTW, so far it looks like about 80% of D* subs are paying over $80/mo for D* HD programming content. So I stand corrected on my exaggerated $100 estimate for D* HD service.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=5858


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

bonscott87 said:


> And you are really misrepresenting cost here. You're comparing cost of content. I very valid comparison.
> 
> But the cost here being talked about is more like $15 a month for Tivo vs. the $5.99 a month DVR fee to DirecTV. What programming you get on top of that for either option is only relevant to you. But comparing the DVR costs is what's at hand.


I disagree.... why is it invalid to look at total cost of use over a three year period. Honestly I think this a much more accurate way of looking at the two services. This is waht it will actually cost me over three years. Get it?

BTW, your math is all wrong. I pay 15.26/mo for *TWO* SA Tivos. One is prepaid 3 yrs for $300 = $8.31.mo, one is on MSD for $6.95/mo. So a more accurate comparison would be D* $5.99 DVR fee to Tivo $8.31/mo fee. Tivo is slightly more, but I pay for service that I value, not content that I will never watch.


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

> A Tivo HD works perfect for you.


Thank you, finally someone gets it


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

> Not sure why you were with DirecTV in the first place.


Because in 2002 there was no free HD OTA in my area and D* offered a dual tuner SD Tivo. Also the cost back then for service was < $50/mo, prob more like $40-45ish. I paid for service that was of value to me and reasonably priced (at the time).


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

RS4 said:


> Why are you guys on a Tivo forum making fun of a guy who left DirecTV because he wanted to stay with Tivo? I can understand that kind of behavior on the dbstalk forum, but this is a Tivo forum. Is it so hard for you folks to believe that a lot of us prefer the Tivo over who provides the signal? Do you have to come over here and insult everyone who says they left DirecTV just because they didn't want to sign up for a 2-year commitment with a product they don't want?
> 
> I wish someone else were put on a week's corner time.


Buddy nobody came over anywhere. Everyone was already here. rmassey joined the thread to take a swing at those keeping the channels (Rock on he sarcastically said). Is it surprising that his tone and attitude have been reciprocated?


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

> Is it surprising that his tone and attitude have been reciprocated?


They have?


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

IMHO yes rmassey.


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

Hmm, I just though we were discussing service, fees, value...

BTW, I meant 'Rock on' sincerely for D* content, if that is your thing, no prob here. I'll take my leave now and let y'all discuss the new D* content. Enjoy


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

RS4 said:


> Why are you guys on a Tivo forum making fun of a guy who left DirecTV because he wanted to stay with Tivo? I can understand that kind of behavior on the dbstalk forum, but this is a Tivo forum. Is it so hard for you folks to believe that a lot of us prefer the Tivo over who provides the signal? Do you have to come over here and insult everyone who says they left DirecTV just because they didn't want to sign up for a 2-year commitment with a product they don't want?
> 
> I wish someone else were put on a week's corner time.


We were having a nice conversation about the 21 New HD Channels and the guy, who has left Directv for Cable comes over and throws his Two Cents in.

So he has Cable and Tivo..... Why then come here into a Directv Forum and start throwing stones around?


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

rmassey said:


> I purchased an S3 Tivo and pre paid the service because it's lower cost (3 yr cost S3 $406 + 300 = $706 vs. D* - $70 * 36 = $2520) and I know that I want to watch and record local HD networks for the next three years.


Your own Calculations are off.....

OK: You purchased a Series 3 Tivo: $406.
Prepaid: 3 years Service: $300.

Thats $706 for Three Years. Correct.

Now, What about the TivoHD you also purchased? Add that in before comparing anything. but lets say:

TivoHD: $299.
Prepaid: 3 years Service: $300.

Your total is now: $1305. For this you basically get: FREE OTA HD.

Now I pay around $70 a Month for 2 Directv DVR's, 2 Directv/Tivo DVR's and 1 Standard Receiver. I also get alot of programming including 3 Movie packages etc.

And it is great for the whole family!

So I pay $70 a Month for 3 years: $2520.

Dollar for Dollar I am in the better spot than you are. Try adding 2 more Series 3 units to your Account, which then would near equal my Set-up. At that point you would be paying around $2610 and this is still with no Programming but Free OTA.

Yes you get what you pay for, but sometimes its bettr to look down the Road not short term.

oh and btw: I have No Commitment at all with Directv


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

The numbers get really lopsided if a lightning surge on the cable line fries his purchased S3.


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

OK one more question, if you all are enjoying the new D* HD channels, you must be using an mpg4 capable D* HR20-700 DVR, so why are you here discussing this on a 'DirecTV HDTV *Tivo Powered* PVR' forum?

just curious....


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

bonscott87 said:


> You didn't really make that clear before. Not sure why you were with DirecTV in the first place.


When some of us originally subscribed to DirecTV you could purchase your equipment and pay $29.95 or $39.95 a month for an excellent lineup of channels with no commitments and quality unavailable virtually anywhere else. The expense was easy to justify.

Today the average bill is close to $100. Cable has in most cases closed the gap in quality and there are other options for content. With my cable/internet bundle I can roll in the cost of TiVo amortize my S3 purchase over 3 years and still be paying less than with DirecTV and separate internet.

The TiVolution will not be broadcast via satellite.


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

> Your own Calculations are off.....


Easy, I sold my D* HW and this more than covered the cost of the THD. That's why I left it out of my calculations. I also got a full refund from CCity due to their crappy ext warranty which they canceled, so essentially I used two HDVR2s for 4 years, was refunded the full purchase price + ext warranty cost and then I sold them on ebay and made money. this offset the THD price and then some.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

rmassey said:


> OK one more question, if you all are enjoying the new D* HD channels, you must be using an mpg4 capable D* HR20-700 DVR, so why are you here discussing this on a 'DirecTV HDTV *Tivo Powered* PVR' forum?
> 
> just curious....


why do you care, just curious


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

rmassey said:


> OK one more question, if you all are enjoying the new D* HD channels, you must be using an mpg4 capable D* HR20-700 DVR, so why are you here discussing this on a 'DirecTV HDTV *Tivo Powered* PVR' forum?
> 
> just curious....


I think this thread is about new channels and how they can't be viewed on legacy equipment including the TiVo powered Directv receivers. It's quite relevant.

Plus as has been mentioned time and again, many on this forum aren't of the "us or them" mentality with our consumer electronics and actually use both. Go figure.


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

Jebberwocky! said:


> why do you care, just curious


You first


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

is this third grade


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Perhaps this forum should hang out a sign from the treehouse labeled "No Stinky HR20 Owners Allowed!!!"


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

stevel said:


> Perhaps this forum should hang out a sign from the treehouse labeled "No Stinky HR20 Owners Allowed!!!"


That was really funny and I enjoyed it. But I must admit that I certainly question the OP's motive. He knows that the HR10-250 cannot get the new mpeg4 signals so why even bother posting in a Tivo forum at all. I finally decided that it was just bragging and let it go at poor taste. After all, he's bound to know that it's going to upset folks more then anything else.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

RS4 said:


> That was really funny and I enjoyed it. But I must admit that I certainly question the OP's motive. He knows that the HR10-250 cannot get the new mpeg4 signals so why even bother posting in a Tivo forum at all. I finally decided that it was just bragging and let it go at poor taste. After all, he's bound to know that it's going to upset folks more then anything else.


Actually no. This used to be *the* place for DirecTV info in general. Unfortunately it no longer is but many people still come here for that. The post was to head off at the pass the eventual dozen or so threads from confused people asking why they can't tune into Animal Planet HD on their HR10. This one thread answers that question. Unfortunately it once against regresses into a "mine is better then yours" debate.

At least the thread in the Happy Hour was civil and full of people asking questions and people providing information. No attacks, no "DirecTV is evil" or "DirecTV is best" postings. Just information. But of course in this forum we can have none of that.  Kinda sad how far this forum has fallen. Really is.

I guess you still don't realize that no matter how much you kick and scream the HR10 just can't be used for the new HD. And if you had listened to the DirecTV presentation to Liberty you'd see that their entire future in advanced services is built around the HR20/HR21 (for good or ill, you decide). There is no Tivo in the future plans, even for Liberty. If Tivo were in the future plans I'd think the presentation would have gone much differently. But hey, interpret it for yourself however you like.

Oh well, I tried. Guess I'll just slink off into the distance again and remain behind the scenes, that should make you quite happy.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

RS4 said:


> Why are you guys on a Tivo forum making fun of a guy who left DirecTV because he wanted to stay with Tivo?


Perhaps because he said



rmassey said:


> Frankly, I am really gald to be done with D* - their business model of ......* 2 yr contracts *....


and



rmassey said:


> ..... I said Look, I have two S3 Tivos with *three yr contracts.*..


and some people found it amusing that someone would gripe about a two year contract but praise their 3 year one.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

Mark Lopez said:


> Perhaps because he said
> 
> and
> 
> and some people found it amusing that someone would gripe about a two year contract but praise their 3 year one.


not to mention spending more on a reviever than the committment would cost them if they decided to leave DTV


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

Jebberwocky! said:


> not to mention spending more on a reviever than the committment would cost them if they decided to leave DTV


Besides that the commitment is a Joke. They don't have your social security number so they can't do anything to your credit rating and all they can do is keep sending you bills that you don't have to pay. Only down side of breaking a commitment and not paying is they won't let you re-open an account at the same address with the same name until you pay what is due but if you use someone elses name or move to a different address it will be a whole new account in the future.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Are you sure they don't have your SS#? Now they require the full SS# or they will charge you $200 or $300 cash payment up front for standard or advanced equipment (credited back at $5/month but not refundable) and previously they had the last 4 of the SS# on the signed agreements which is all they would need for collections. Pretty sure it also states in what one signs that you may be sent to collections for non-payment.



jrock said:


> Besides that the commitment is a Joke. They don't have your social security number so they can't do anything to your credit rating and all they can do is keep sending you bills that you don't have to pay. Only down side of breaking a commitment and not paying is they won't let you re-open an account at the same address with the same name until you pay what is due but if you use someone elses name or move to a different address it will be a whole new account in the future.


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## beartrap (Nov 8, 2005)

jrock said:


> Besides that the commitment is a Joke. They don't have your social security number so they can't do anything to your credit rating and all they can do is keep sending you bills that you don't have to pay. Only down side of breaking a commitment and not paying is they won't let you re-open an account at the same address with the same name until you pay what is due but if you use someone elses name or move to a different address it will be a whole new account in the future.


They don't need your SSN to "do anything to your credit rating." Your name and address will do just fine, thank you.


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

beartrap said:


> They don't need your SSN to "do anything to your credit rating." Your name and address will do just fine, thank you.


Well at least with the cell phone company commitments I have never had any issues other than them sending me bills. I have had Sprint, SBC, Nextel, and now I am finally at Verizon and each time I left before a commitment was up all they have done is send me bills over and over. I joined DirecTV in 2002 and all I did was fill out a form from some internet installation place that had free deals but they never asked for a social security number. It may be a new thing they do now. I never give out my ss# to any online company. If they have a form that asks for it and it won't let you go on I just put in a fake #. It worked for the cell phone and electric company.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

bonscott87 said:


> Actually no. This used to be *the* place for DirecTV info in general. Unfortunately it no longer is but many people still come here for that.


It's not anymore. The sooner the folks interested in DirecTV discussion realize that the better off they'll be. They need to move on and leave this forum for those who are interested in using it for it's intended purpose.



> At least the thread in the Happy Hour was civil and full of people asking questions and people providing information. No attacks, no "DirecTV is evil" or "DirecTV is best" postings. Just information. But of course in this forum we can have none of that.  Kinda sad how far this forum has fallen. Really is.


There are some here who routinely insult TiVo owners in their own forum for wanting to keep their preferred DVR, but you're bothered by attacks on DirecTV. Sad, indeed.



> Oh well, I tried. Guess I'll just slink off into the distance again and remain behind the scenes, that should make you quite happy.


Look at the bright side, instead of stirring up anthills you can spend your time enjoying your DVR and programming source of choice. I know I am.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Mark Lopez said:


> and some people found it amusing that someone would gripe about a two year contract but praise their 3 year one.


TiVo doesn't require a three year commitment. in fact, you can get a TiVo box, try it out, and if you don't like it you can send it back and get your money back. If you decide to keep it, you only have to commit to one year.

You can't do any of that with a DirecTV DVR.


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

nrc said:


> TiVo doesn't require a three year commitment. in fact, you can get a TiVo box, try it out, and if you don't like it you can send it back and get your money back. If you decide to keep it, you only have to commit to one year.
> 
> You can't do any of that with a DirecTV DVR.


BINGO - :up:


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

jrock said:


> Besides that the commitment is a Joke. They don't have your social security number so they can't do anything to your credit rating and all they can do is keep sending you bills that you don't have to pay. Only down side of breaking a commitment and not paying is they won't let you re-open an account at the same address with the same name until you pay what is due but if you use someone elses name or move to a different address it will be a whole new account in the future.


Don't bet your credit score on that one


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

Back to topic, the 21 New HD Channels?

Which of the new channels has surprised you the most?

For us, we were just stunned yesterday by the Picture Quality of the Big Ten Network HD (220). 

Watching the Ilini win was great but seeing it in amazing HD was the bomb. It wasn't just the picture detail, it was the color depth that equaled the best OTA or Discovery HD Theater have to offer.

But Smithsonian HD will be what I will use in the future to show off the HD. It is just the best. Wow. Every show is HD and just amazing. 

Discovery Channel HD is also stunning. Winged Migration was as good as the program I had recorded some time ago on Discovery HD Theater. And Cari Byron is everything you had hoped on Mythbusters.

One of the biggest surprises was CNN HD. The graphics are exceptional. 

And the biggest surprise has to be the Weather Channel. The SD maps and graphics "On The 8's" has appeared at times to be a throw-back to the old CGA 32x240. YouTube is better resolution than some of the SD maps.

But the graphics and maps in the Weather Channel HD show what is possible. If only Cliff Claven could see his weather babes in HD...

We are also looking forward to watching the Cubs in HD on TBS HD next week.

Real HD and the Cubbies make the playoff all in one week!

- Craig


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

nrc said:


> TiVo doesn't require a three year commitment. in fact, you can get a TiVo box, try it out, and if you don't like it you can send it back and get your money back.


The poster above indicated he had a 3 year contract. Perhaps it was his cable company. Regardless, if he wants his Tivo, he has to commit to something. Unless I misread his post



> Originally Posted by rmassey
> ..... I have two S3 Tivos with three yr contracts...


In any case, the whole commitment thing is just a red herring the lemmings like to use when they can't find a legitimate reason to bash the HR20.


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## tooloud (Aug 21, 2004)

beartrap said:


> They don't need your SSN to "do anything to your credit rating." Your name and address will do just fine, thank you.


This is entirely correct, and I think the previous poster failed to note that DirecTV does indeed request your SSN when you sign up and does a hard pull on your credit if you want to be billed every month.

That's why I chose direct-to-credit card billing. I didn't see any reason to let them ding my credit score when I wanted to put it on the card anyway.


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

> The poster above indicated he had a 3 year contract.


Does the concept of consumer choice ever enter into your thinking ? Yes, Tivo requires a contract. Tivo gives consumers a choice of 1,2, or 3 year contracts. D* does not. They force a two year contract on anyone that activates a new DVR, leased or purchased, new or old.

Does the concept of limiting monthly cost enter into your thinking? A three year Tivo contact is $8.31/mo. To receive HD from D* averages near $80/mo

Perhaps these simple concepts eluded your interpertation of my post. They happen to be important to me and I've made *my* choice to select these options as a consumer.

If more HD content with less concern for cost and long term obligations with no choice is of value to you, then by all means make that choice. It is your right.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Just to correct 1 of your points .... I have added 2 USED HR10's in the last 90 days to the 1 I have had for over 2 years and there was no added agreement. Yes, I verified it ... I am still month to month. Best part is, as (or if) they "die off" and if I decide to go over to "the dark side" they will replace them with HR20's (or whatever) at zero charge because I took their service program. And their program states "owned replaced with owned" so they would be mine to sell if I wish.



rmassey said:


> Does the concept of consumer choice ever enter into your thinking ? Yes, Tivo requires a contract. Tivo gives consumers a choice of 1,2, or 3 year contracts. D* does not. They force a two year contract on anyone that activates a new DVR, leased or purchased, new or old.
> 
> Does the concept of limiting monthly cost enter into your thinking? A three year Tivo contact is $8.31/mo. To receive HD from D* averages near $80/mo
> 
> ...


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

incog-neato said:


> Just to correct 1 of your points .... I have added 2 USED HR10's in the last 90 days to the 1 I have had for over 2 years and there was no added agreement. Yes, I verified it ... I am still month to month. Best part is, as (or if) they "die off" and if I decide to go over to "the dark side" they will replace them with HR20's (or whatever) at zero charge because I took their service program. And their program states "owned replaced with owned" so they would be mine to sell if I wish.


and your particular situation is the exception. D*'s common practice is to automatically apply a new two year contract for all DVR activations. But i suspect you are already aware of this practice.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

incog-neato said:


> Just to correct 1 of your points .... I have added 2 USED HR10's in the last 90 days to the 1 I have had for over 2 years and there was no added agreement. Yes, I verified it ... I am still month to month. Best part is, as (or if) they "die off" and if I decide to go over to "the dark side" they will replace them with HR20's (or whatever) at zero charge because I took their service program. And their program states "owned replaced with owned" so they would be mine to sell if I wish.


How did you verify? Did you call and ask? One of the sneaky things DirecTV does is not put the time period on the bill. I discovered by accident that I was finished with my contract when I called for something else. Without anything it writing, it's simply your word against theirs.


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## Emacee (Dec 15, 2000)

What does this have to do with us?
TiVo SR3/HD do not support DirectTV.
DirecTivo does not do HD.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Emacee said:


> What does this have to do with us?
> DirecTivo does not do HD.


Have you looked at the title of this forum section? The TiVo powered HR10-250 does do HD, though not the new channels.


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

This should probably be two new threads...

1 ----------------------------
11 New HD Are Live Today:

Comcast SportsNet Chicago HD (Channel 640)
Comcast SportsNet Mid-Atlantic HD (Channel 629)
New England Sports Network/NESN HD(Channel 623)
SportsNet New York HD (Channel 625)
YES HD (Channel 622)
Cinemax East (Channel 512)
Cinemax West (Channel 514)
HBO West (Channel 504)
Bravo (Channel 273)
SciFi Channel (Channel 244)
USA Network (Channel 242)

2------------------------------------
HR10/H10 users had been able to see these MPEG2 spotbeams in their home markets:

Comcast SportsNet Chicago HD (Channel 640)
Comcast SportsNet Mid-Atlantic HD (Channel 629)
New England Sports Network/NESN HD(Channel 623)
SportsNet New York HD (Channel 625)
YES HD (Channel 622)

It appears that the MPEG2 transmissions have been turned off and MPEG4 CONUS (COntinental US) feeds from the new D10 have replaced them.

Can HR10/H10 owners still receive these HD spotbeams in their markets?

------------------------------------------------------

- Craig


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

milominderbinder said:


> 2------------------------------------
> HR10/H10 users had been able to see these MPEG2 spotbeams in their home markets:
> 
> Comcast SportsNet Chicago HD (Channel 640)
> ...


The spotbeams were always MPEG4. HR10 could never get HD games on channel 96/97 (or 622 for example for Yes as it was full time) as they were MPEG4 delivered from the Spaceways (which the HR10 cannot see).


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Legacy equipment never got YES HD or SPORTSNET full time-HD. Mets & Yankees here in NY/NJ area were always provided on the HD locals or via Ch 95, ESPN or MSG or whatever #. They have always been Ka. In fact, never got any of the HD Sportsnets for the same reason. They are all Ka. Despite rumors, nothing existing has been turned off and nothing will be for the immediate future. One reason for that is there are millions of multi-dwelling property customers (mdu's) who can't get Ka due to the fact signal DISTRIBUTION equipment is not yet available or just trickeling out (it's in testing). They have promised not to remove any legacy programming for an unspecified amount of time but at least until well into next year. The mdu market is major market for DTV and if they kill off what is currently provided all hell will break loose.



milominderbinder said:


> This should probably be two new threads...
> 
> 2------------------------------------
> HR10/H10 users had been able to see these MPEG2 spotbeams in their home markets:
> ...


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

I said it in the other thread BUT

New England Sports Network/NESN HD(Channel 623)

it's been HD for a while, is it something to do w/ national or what?


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

MikeMar said:


> I said it in the other thread BUT
> 
> New England Sports Network/NESN HD(Channel 623)
> 
> it's been HD for a while, is it something to do w/ national or what?


Yes...
It is now available 24/7 nationally.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

MikeMar said:


> I said it in the other thread BUT
> 
> New England Sports Network/NESN HD(Channel 623)
> 
> it's been HD for a while, is it something to do w/ national or what?


Correct, it was spotbeam before. And DirecTV seemed to limit it to those in the Boston area only. Now it's on the national beams so anyone that is authorized to get NESN will get it including those outside the Boston area. I can get it now in Michigan. Games are still blacked out unless I have a sports package but it's now available to everyone just like the SD feed.


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## CyberDC (Oct 4, 2007)

I'm one of those original HR 10-250 owners that paid $1000. I later added another one for a lot less. I took the plunge to the HR-20 because I could upgrade for free and I could hold on to my HR 10-250 in case I wanted to go back. There have been some issues, but having new channels has been worth it. I agree that most of the HD content that we'll watch can also be had OTA, but it's still nice to get channels like SCI-FI in HD for some of the current shows as well as future shows.

The big plus on all these new channels is just knowing that as new shows come out on all these various channels in HD that we're going to be able to watch them. If you have an HDTV then you're going to want to get as much HD content as you can. The HR 10 had a good run, but within the next 9 to 12 months it's going to be obsolete.


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## Scooter (Mar 15, 2000)

Has anyone heard rumors of Fox Sports Midwest getting placed on the to-do list (D11 perhaps)? I haven't seen that station mentioned as of yet. 

Scooter


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

Scooter said:


> Has anyone heard rumors of Fox Sports Midwest getting placed on the to-do list (D11 perhaps)? I haven't seen that station mentioned as of yet.
> 
> Scooter


AVS showed it on the D10 list.

- Craig


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## Scooter (Mar 15, 2000)

milominderbinder said:


> AVS showed it on the D10 list.
> 
> - Craig


Ooooh!!  

That sounds nice.

Scooter


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