# Do UPS units help make TiVos last longer?



## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

I recently got a used Series 3 (OLED) locally off Craigslist. Its fully working & in good condition, but I mainly got it for parts (hard drive and/or power supply) for my current lifetime S3. Upon picking it up at this guy's house, I was telling him how I had to have my current S3 power supply fixed (replaced a capacitor).

He had his plugged into a uninterpretable power supply (UPS) and seemed to indicate (& explain a bit) that this could have been the reason he has NEVER had problems with the unit over the years. Do these UPS devices help the longevity of TiVos? Just curious.


----------



## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Likely, yes. A UPS will condition the power, leveling out dips and spikes that can damage your unit.


----------



## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

Think of it this way, your TiVo is essentially a computer. Any computer (desktop type) is better off with a UPS. Why would you want your TiVo to restart every time the lights blink?


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

With the known cap issues in S3's, I'm tempted to blame it on a faulty cap first, regardless of the power.

But in any event, UPS's help protect the electronics against voltage fluctuations as well as spikes. It's cleaner power delivery. If you get brownouts or live in an older house that's prone to blowing fuses, they're quite helpful there too.


----------



## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

There's been a fair amount of discussion on the topic in other threads. IMHO, it's not so much important for power conditioning, but minimizing the power cycles that the hard drive would experience. The initial spin-up of the hard drive is probably the hardest on the internal mechanisms. If you're prone to a lot of random power "blips" thanks to your unreliable local electric utility, a UPS is a good idea.


----------



## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

Cool. Gonna pick one up. I have 2 Premieres near each, but would need to run an extension line from a UPS to the 2nd one. Will this be ok or should each premiere really have their own UPS?


----------



## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

There's nothing wrong with running two from the same UPS other than the run-time being shorter. As mentioned, the primary advantage is to insulate the TiVo from short-term power dropouts and two TiVos on even a smallish UPS will handle that fine.


----------



## lillevig (Dec 7, 2010)

buscuitboy said:


> Cool. Gonna pick one up. I have 2 Premieres near each, but would need to run an extension line from a UPS to the 2nd one. Will this be ok or should each premiere really have their own UPS?


Better check the capability of the UPS based on how much the Tivos will need. When I had a UPS on my computer, I could only add a couple of other items (eg: monitor and cable modem). Anything else and the UPS wasn't able to handle the load.


----------



## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

How often are you folks losing power? I cannot remember the last time I lost power, and had to reset a clock. It has been well over a year maybe longer.


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

CoxInPHX said:


> How often are you folks losing power? I cannot remember the last time I lost power, and had to reset a clock. It has been well over a year maybe longer.


Here on the east coast, we have this thing called weather...


----------



## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

I believe they do. Especially to help disks ride out a brief power loss.


----------



## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

A computer typically has a power draw of 100W or more. A DVR is in the 25-40W range.

We frequently get power blips here.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

buscuitboy said:


> I recently got a used Series 3 (OLED) locally off Craigslist. Its fully working & in good condition, but I mainly got it for parts (hard drive and/or power supply) for my current lifetime S3. Upon picking it up at this guy's house, I was telling him how I had to have my current S3 power supply fixed (replaced a capacitor).
> 
> He had his plugged into a uninterpretable power supply (UPS) and seemed to indicate (& explain a bit) that this could have been the reason he has NEVER had problems with the unit over the years. Do these UPS devices help the longevity of TiVos? Just curious.


My girlfriend has two of my original S3 boxes I bought 2006 that I gave to her when I got Premieres. They have never had any issues and they have also always been plugged into a UPS. I would never use a TiVo without it being plugged into a UPS.


----------



## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

I think getting them FedEX will make them last longer than if sent UPS!

Sorry, I could not resist!


----------



## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

Palm plant


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

MPSAN said:


> Sorry, I could not resist!


Try harder next time.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

JETarpon said:


> Likely, yes. A UPS will condition the power, leveling out dips and spikes that can damage your unit.


That is NOT what a UPS does; it's there to provide power when the power goes out and protection from power surges due to outages. It doesn't "level out dips and spikes". I have (had) an APC UPS (which just recently fried while protecting my TiVo and Slingbox from a power surge). I have a Panamax power conditioner that levels out the voltage irregularities. Two different animals...however there are some power conditioners that also have UPS capabilities.


----------



## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Some of the middle to high-end UPS boxes do have "automatic voltage regulation" (AVR). The cheaper ones do not. However, this feature is not of any real benefit to a TiVo.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

stevel said:


> Some of the middle to high-end UPS boxes do have "automatic voltage regulation" (AVR). The cheaper ones do not. However, this feature is not of any real benefit to a TiVo.


Yeah, I'm just familiar with the lower end UPS units which I use for my TiVo, Sling and Panny plasma. I agree the AVR is of no real benefit; the UPS certainly is in my experience, especially this past Monday when it saved my boxes.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

stevel said:


> Some of the middle to high-end UPS boxes do have "automatic voltage regulation" (AVR). The cheaper ones do not. However, this feature is not of any real benefit to a TiVo.


Less expensive UPSes rarely include any sort of voltage regulation or line filtering. These features are generally found only in the more expensive units. Filtering and voltage regulation (a.k.a. line conditioning) will benefit virtually all type of electronic circuits as it protects against surges and dips that can damage the power supply and other circuits in the device being powered. Considering the issues with Tivo power supplies, I would consider a UPS with regulation and filtering to be a necessity. Running a Tivo connected to "dirty" power would certainly account for so many power supply failures being reported. I've always used a UPS with every Tivo I've owned over the past 10-12 years and I've never had a single power supply fail on me.

A basic UPS is designed to provide continuous power to any device connected to it in the event of momentary brownouts. It won't necessarily protect against power surges unless the UPS includes that feature. PCs tend to see the most benefit from using a UPS if the UPS has feedback capability via serial port or USB (and the required software) to systematically close any open applications and shut down the PC gracefully before the UPS battery is drained. Obviously, this can't be done with a Tivo since there's no way to shut it off without pulling the plug. Connecting a Tivo to a UPS will allow it to receive clean power (if the UPS is so equipped) and then it will just shut down when the battery output drops below a specified level.

The bottom line is that clean, steady, and continuous power will benefit just about whatever you have connected to it.


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

If someone wants to see the difference between units that condition the power versus those that just provide provide surge protection your can look at the APC line: 

AV Power Conditioners & Battery Backups: Designed for your whole AV system and expensive but they do it all
Smart-UPS: Also does power conditioning, prices start around $120 for the smallest unit (260 Watts/420 VA which would be more than enough for a TiVo or 2) and can go up to 1000s of dollars. 
Back-UPS Pro: No power conditioning just surge, more battery per $ than Smart-UPS. As an example a 600 Watts/1000 VA Back-UPS unit lists for $180, but a Smart-UPS 600 Watts/1000 VA unit lists for $310
They also make a none battery unit called Line-R unit that does more than just Surge Protection but not as much are the power conditioning units above.

I am sure it is the same for other companies.

I have 7 different UPS units in my house now, some APC, some Cyberpower some with conditioning and some without. I have had several units hit hard enough to kill them and do hear the conditioning units kick in more than I would like. Unfortunately if the power goes out at night all the beeping drives me nuts .


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> Yeah, I'm just familiar with the lower end UPS units which I use for my TiVo, Sling and Panny plasma. I agree the AVR is of no real benefit; the UPS certainly is in my experience, especially this past Monday when it saved my boxes.


AVR will allow the UPS to go on the battery less often by trimming or boosting the voltage. And if the UPS uses the battery less, the battery should last longer. All of my newer APC units have AVR and will boost the voltage or trim the voltage. While my older ones only have one of those(I can't remember which one) So my newer UPS units don't go on battery power as often as my older units. Although it also depends on where you set the voltage thresold for the battery to kick in.


----------



## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> That is NOT what a UPS does; it's there to provide power when the power goes out and protection from power surges due to outages. It doesn't "level out dips and spikes". I have (had) an APC UPS (which just recently fried while protecting my TiVo and Slingbox from a power surge). I have a Panamax power conditioner that levels out the voltage irregularities. Two different animals...however there are some power conditioners that also have UPS capabilities.


Every UPS I've ever had included a surge protector. Isn't a power surge a "spike"? And isn't power loss a dip?


----------



## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Sometimes there can be a "brownout" where the voltage dips. More rare is a higher than normal voltage. These can damage some kinds of devices, but not a TiVo. The cheaper units will just switch to battery when the voltage drops too far, a unit with AVR will actually boost the low voltage back to a normal range.


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

If the power goes out, a regular UPS will start making AC out of the DC in its battery fast enough that though you see the room lights blink, the stuff plugged into the UPS, which have power supplies with capacitors that store enough to keep going for a very short interruption, will be able to keep the units on until the UPS output takes over.

Thus saving you a "boot cycle", which wears out stuff faster, and also saves you losing the last minute or two of a show you're watching or recording.


----------



## scole250 (Nov 8, 2005)

I'm sure it's already been said, but regardless of whether it saves the Tivo, not having to wait for the Tivo to re-boot after a power blip is worth it here, where we can get several power blips a day.


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

atmuscarella said:


> Unfortunately if the power goes out at knight all the peeping drives me nuts .


At "knight?" Really?

If you plug the UPS into a computer via the USB cable, you can configure it not to beep (at least on the APC models with USB cables.)


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Arcady said:


> At "knight?" Really?
> 
> If you plug the UPS into a computer via the USB cable, you can configure it not to beep (at least on the APC models with USB cables.)


Most of my UPSs are not attached to computers. Really wish they just had a button to turn the beeping off along with one to turn all the lights off.


----------



## wkearney99 (Dec 5, 2003)

atmuscarella said:


> Most of my UPSs are not attached to computers. Really wish they just had a button to turn the beeping off along with one to turn all the lights off.


Put electrical tape over the lights, or run a cord to put the UPS out of sight.

Plug the UPS into a computer long enough to program whether it beeps or not.

You do need the lights and beeper to be able to tell when the battery inside the unit needs replacing.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

All my newer APC units can be configured by the LCD screen or from a pc.(the older ones only from a pc) Either way it's a good idea to make sure you get a ups where the audible tone can be turned off. I would be extremely annoyed if my 12+ apc UPS units started beeping every time the power went out.

Sent from my HTC ReZound using Forum Runner


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

You only need to connect it to a computer for a moment to program the beeps to shut off. Then you can disconnect it from the PC.


----------



## jjberger2134 (Nov 20, 2002)

Just want to revive this thread, and ask which inexpensive UPS systems are recommended. I have had my 2 TiVo's on an APC UPS for quite a few years:

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=be350u

The battery must have gone bad in one of these units. I had the TiVo lose power, as I was starting my snowblower (electrical start) a few weeks back. Apparently, the outlet that I used to start the snowblower is on the same circuit as the TiVo. I am guessing the battery is shot. We have had quite a few power outages here over the past 2 years.

Can I just replace the battery in this unit, or should I look a new or different UPS?


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

You can replace the battery but it also might be cheaper to get newer unit if you can find them on sale.


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> You can replace the battery but it also might be cheaper to get newer unit if you can find them on sale.


What he said.

If you do decide to replace the battery a local Batteries Plus should be able to fix you right up for $30 to $40 before sales tax.

Seriously, you might find another entire unit with the same or better specs on sale for around the same money at Best Buy or Staples or OfficeMax or Office Depot when next Sunday's circulars come out.


----------



## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

I went to...wait for it...

replaceupsbattery.com

I wonder how they ever got that name. I paid a little over $18. Do not forget to search for coupons.


----------



## jjberger2134 (Nov 20, 2002)

Ok, thanks. I have looked around at it appears a similar unit is currently about $40 on Amazon. I know this is bottom of the barrel with regarding to power supplies and UPS systems, but is it good enough to protect the TiVo? Is there any real reason to upgrade? I am not concerned about run time, because when the power goes out, it tends to go out for hours or days. So the difference between 10 minutes and 30 minutes of run time is not that important to me since most likely the power failure will be longer than that.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1389517282&pf_rd_i=507846


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

jjberger2134 said:


> Ok, thanks. I have looked around at it appears a similar unit is currently about $40 on Amazon. I know this is bottom of the barrel with regarding to power supplies and UPS systems, but is it good enough to protect the TiVo? Is there any real reason to upgrade? I am not concerned about run time, because when the power goes out, it tends to go out for hours or days. So the difference between 10 minutes and 30 minutes of run time is not that important to me since most likely the power failure will be longer than that.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1389517282&pf_rd_i=507846


What you have now may be "bottom of the barrel" as far as how much power it can deliver for how long, but APC is certainly a reputable brand.

However, since it didn't drive you nuts with a low battery beep, if the 2 units you have are indentical, you might try a battery swap to see if the problem is the unit or the battery age.


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> I went to...wait for it...
> 
> replaceupsbattery.com
> 
> I wonder how they ever got that name. I paid a little over $18. Do not forget to search for coupons.


Was that before shipping?


----------



## jjberger2134 (Nov 20, 2002)

unitron said:


> What you have now may be "bottom of the barrel" as far as how much power it can deliver for how long, but APC is certainly a reputable brand.
> 
> However, since it didn't drive you nuts with a low battery beep, if the 2 units you have are indentical, you might try a battery swap to see if the problem is the unit or the battery age.


Interesting. I never thought about the low battery warning. When I started my snowblower, my wife (who was watching TV at the time) said the TiVo just rebooted without the low battery warning. Maybe it is the unit itself.


----------



## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

unitron said:


> Was that before shipping?


I had a coupon from the web and it was FREE shipping. I got 3 of them for MY APC units and they are working fine.


----------



## wkearney99 (Dec 5, 2003)

jjberger2134 said:


> Just want to revive this thread, and ask which inexpensive UPS systems are recommended. I have had my 2 TiVo's on an APC UPS for quite a few years:
> 
> http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=be350u
> 
> ...


I think that's the one I've got. There's a sliding panel on the bottom that covers the battery. Just replaced the battery in one of the three I've got.

I typically end up replacing the batteries in mine around every three years. It's a simple swap for most APC units. Some Belkin POS units make it a huge hassle to unscrew everything to get to the batteries.


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

I've replaced 2 APC 550VA batteries in the past year and got both from Amazon sellers for less than $20 shipped. They work fine. Not the OEM APC brand mind you, those are way overpriced and all they do is slap their sticker on some other battery anyway.


----------



## jjberger2134 (Nov 20, 2002)

good to know. I am going to try a battery swap between my two units and maybe buy 2 batteries anyway since these units are most likely around the 3 year mark if not older.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

CoxInPHX said:


> How often are you folks losing power? I cannot remember the last time I lost power, and had to reset a clock. It has been well over a year maybe longer.


A lot more often than I would like. We just had one last month. We probably get at least 4 or 5 a year.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I don't lose power here very often but we have a lot of power surges. Sometimes it can be several times a day. All my UPS units will kick in if the power surge exceeds a certain voltage.

And the same goes for a brown out. Within the last few years we had one leg of the transformer in my area go out. So suddenly the voltage was down to around 70 volts, It was this way for almost ten minutes before the transformer completely went down. So I was glad to have all my electronics connected to over a dozen UPSs. And I was able to use my equipment during the four or five hours it took them to replace the the transformer.


----------



## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> I don't lose power here very often but we have a lot of power surges. Sometimes it can be several times a day. All my UPS units will kick in if the power surge exceeds a certain voltage.
> 
> And the same goes for a brown out. Within the last few years we had one leg of the transformer in my area go out. So suddenly the voltage was down to around 70 volts, It was this way for almost ten minutes before the transformer completely went down. So I was glad to have all my electronics connected to over a dozen UPSs. And I was able to use my equipment during the four or five hours it took them to replace the the transformer.


4 or 5 hours?  You must have some hefty UPS'es!


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

dlfl said:


> 4 or 5 hours?  You must have some hefty UPS'es!


I use a bunch of the APC 1500 models with the extended runtime battery. I get up to 18+ hours of runtime depending on what devices and the number of devices I have connected to each particular UPS.
My TiVos are covered for over ten hours.


----------



## Kerwin51580 (Sep 20, 2012)

I finally bit the bullet and got a UPS for our living room electronics -- a Cyber Power CP1350AVRLCD. This summer will be our first with TiVos and we have occassional brownouts throughout the season. 

The UPS was a bit overpowered for my needs -- at full load, all my equipment (TV, XL4, cable modem, router and TA) barely use 10% of my batteries' rated capacity. It also does make my whole setup look neater. I hated staring down at my TV stand and seeing a bunch of plugs connected to a dusty white surge protector.

I'd probably get the same kind of UPS for the bedroom and a pure sine wave version for my computer.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Kerwin51580 said:


> I finally bit the bullet and got a UPS for our living room electronics -- a Cyber Power CP1350AVRLCD. This summer will be our first with TiVos and we have occassional brownouts throughout the season.
> 
> The UPS was a bit overpowered for my needs -- at full load, all my equipment (TV, XL4, cable modem, router and TA) barely use 10% of my batteries' rated capacity. It also does make my whole setup look neater. I hated staring down at my TV stand and seeing a bunch of plugs connected to a dusty white surge protector.
> 
> I'd probably get the same kind of UPS for the bedroom and a pure sine wave version for my computer.


You can use the same type of UPS for your computer. It will work just fine. I've been using UPSs on all my PCs for over 17 years and on my electronics for over 14 years with no issues. I've never used a pure Sine wave UPS and out of the hundreds of devices I've used on them, the only issue I ever had, was one 32" HDTV I had made a humming noise when running on battery power. I never had an issue with the hundreds of other devices I used on the UPSs.


----------

