# Are Roamios crippled without continuous internet connectivity?



## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

Moved from TiVo Underground:



ultratc said:


> I just got a Roamio OTA. IT is set up and working, but I find that it needs an internet connection just to delete a recorded show.


Ummm... if that's true, it's something new. (I think.)

My Premieres certainly have no such restriction, and when I tried a Roamio back when they first came out, I don't recall any such restrictions. I set one up in northern VA, took it on a several day vacation to a remote location with OTA but no internet, and it recorded and played and functioned perfectly well the whole time, as best as I can recall.

Anybody else noticed this?

Just exactly how crippled is a Roamio without a continuous live internet connection?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Anything that requires updates to the To Do List or 1P usually gives me an error message. Since my network is always on I never really noticed.

Edit: just tested. Deletion doesn't cause an error. However, if I do something that does access the network, like check my Premiere, the C130 error happens, the What To Watch Now dims, and the C130 doesn't go away. So the error can be caused at any time, but may not show until the network is needed.

Next post is relevant since I was using the Clear key.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

You can delete from "my shows" by hitting the "Clear" button, but if you try to select a show to dive into the show info in order to hit "delete" down there, you are out of luck. It hangs forever trying to get the show info (at least that was the way it worked for me the last time I had network problems which was a few software releases ago).


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

When my internet was out a few days ago for a couple days, the behavior regarding deleting shows seemed unpredictable. Some shows would delete fine. Some didn't even give me the option to delete the show.

I had no problem watching shows, but I was only able to delete them sometimes. I wish I would have kept track of which I were able to delete, what method, etc, and those that I couldn't, and what methods I tried. At the time I had some suspicion it was related to when it was recorded related to when my internet was out, but I didn't pay enough attention to be sure.

In any case, without an internet connection, search is completely disabled. I don't think this is the case on my TivoHD. Again, I am unsure. Sorry. It seems like older models may store quite a bit more data locally than the Roamio.


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

justen_m said:


> I had no problem watching shows, but I was only able to delete them sometimes.
> ...
> I had some suspicion it was related to when it was recorded related to when my internet was out


Fascinating.



> In any case, without an internet connection, search is completely disabled. I don't think this is the case on my TivoHD.


It isnt the case in the Classic UI on Premieres, either. Only the HD UI requires the net to find shows.

Nor can the ad bar function without a net, which is a great reason to keep a Roamio off the net entirely, except for once a week to update the guide.



> It seems like older models may store quite a bit more data locally than the Roamio.


But if your suspicion about the varying delete behavior is correct, that suggests the Roamio might actually have a full local database, but only for use when the net is unavailable.

That would explain why, when the net is unavailable, diving into a show added to the show list while the net was available would hang trying to retrieve info from the cloud, but diving into a show placed in the show list when the net was not available would not hang, because that show info would be retrieved locally.



JoeKustra said:


> Anything that requires updates to the To Do List or 1P usually gives me an error message.


So are you saying that you cannot create a 1P or otherwise set up or modify a scheduled recording without a net connection, or does it just complain about it but set up the recording, anyway?

What about the program guide? Can you look at that and see show information without the net?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

joblo said:


> Fascinating.
> So are you saying that you cannot create a 1P or otherwise set up or modify a scheduled recording without a net connection, or does it just complain about it but set up the recording, anyway?
> 
> What about the program guide? Can you look at that and see show information without the net?


Only observation that is constant is when there is a network failure, the entire device seems to have problems. Like I said, it usually happens, but sometimes it doesn't. I don't detect a pattern. To cause the error I unplugged my internet adapter. I could delete a program with Clear. But when I tried to access another TiVo on my local internet, the error happened. While I have access 99.9% of the the time, just last week a truck ripped out my cable and most of my county had nothing for 12 hours. I was able to play recordings. This issue in not high on my priority list. I guess someone with partial access would be better qualified to answer the original question.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

I have this issue and spoke with TiVo customer support about it. I was told that TiVo has documented an issue with some modem/routers, in which network connectivity sometimes is lost. (For me, it's happened about 1x/month, with a Netgear modem/router). The solution (per TiVo and my own experience) simply is to restart the TiVo set (under the Help menu).

I also noticed that when connectivity is lost, I am unable to delete programs from the My Shows listing (although I can delete them by going to the end of each individual show and then deleting them). I asked TiVo about this and was told that it is an unintentional idiosyncrasy of the programming--there seems to be an unintended cross-over between the network connectivity coding and the delete function coding. Just one of those things.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Mikeguy said:


> I have this issue and spoke with TiVo customer support about it. I was told that TiVo has documented an issue with some modem/routers, in which network connectivity sometimes is lost. (For me, it's happened about 1x/month, with a Netgear modem/router). The solution (per TiVo and my own experience) simply is to restart the TiVo set (under the Help menu).
> 
> I also noticed that when connectivity is lost, I am unable to delete programs from the My Shows listing (although I can delete them by going to the end of each individual show and then deleting them). I asked TiVo about this and was told that it is an unintentional idiosyncrasy of the programming--there seems to be an unintended cross-over between the network connectivity coding and the delete function coding. Just one of those things.


I think TiVo is collecting a lot of information about what we are doing with our Roamios in real time, that why live internet connection has been programed into the Roamio, that does cause some unintentional problems when the internet goes down.


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## chuck95 (Sep 13, 2008)

I had a temporary problem with my internet today, and during the time the tivo wasn't able to connect, it wouldn't let me record any shows, even the one I was currently watching on live TV. It kept recording what was already recording when the internet went out, but wouldn't record anything new. (I didn't even need the guide, I just wanted to record what I was already watching!) Is this normal? It's really annoying!


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

chuck95 said:


> I had a temporary problem with my internet today, and during the time the tivo wasn't able to connect, it wouldn't let me record any shows, even the one I was currently watching on live TV. It kept recording what was already recording when the internet went out, but wouldn't record anything new. (I didn't even need the guide, I just wanted to record what I was already watching!) Is this normal? It's really annoying!


I'm going to say abnormal. I pulled the Ethernet cord. Then I changed channels and hit the red record button. No problem. Then I went to Network Diags and caused the C130. There was an error when I went back to TiVo Central and the display was as expected. I could still record and delete programs. I have seen a condition where program deletion would not work, but not this time. This is on a wired (to wireless) basic Roamio.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

chuck95 said:


> I had a temporary problem with my internet today, and during the time the tivo wasn't able to connect, it wouldn't let me record any shows, even the one I was currently watching on live TV. It kept recording what was already recording when the internet went out, but wouldn't record anything new. (I didn't even need the guide, I just wanted to record what I was already watching!) Is this normal? It's really annoying!


This has happened in our home when the internet goes down from Comcast late at night when Comcast does their cable repair/update, so sometime the TiVos work normally for watching and recording (top bar does has an error) and sometimes not, don't know why that is.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

lessd said:


> I think TiVo is collecting a lot of information about what we are doing with our Roamios in real time, that why live internet connection has been programed into the Roamio, that does cause some unintentional problems when the internet goes down.


It's called extremely poor error handling in the code, not 'unintentional problems'. Us folks that program for a living understand what I'm talking about.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

slowbiscuit said:


> It's called extremely poor error handling in the code, not 'unintentional problems'. Us folks that program for a living understand what I'm talking about.


Good explanation; Thanks


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## judyn (Feb 26, 2009)

We had a lot of internet outages this spring. I didn't notice any problems recording or scheduling the Premiere, but I could not delete programs. Very irritating. Our internet is unstable enough I'd love to know a method that will delete files when there is no internet. 

The HD had no problem of course.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

judyn said:


> We had a lot of internet outages this spring. I didn't notice any problems recording or scheduling the Premiere, but I could not delete programs. Very irritating. Our internet is unstable enough I'd love to know a method that will delete files when there is no internet.
> 
> The HD had no problem of course.


I wonder if you op-out from TiVo collecting information from you if that would solve this problem, you have to call TiVo to op-out.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

lessd said:


> I wonder if you op-out from TiVo collecting information from you if that would solve this problem, you have to call TiVo to op-out.


Besides the daily Service Connection there is the VCM Connection every few hours. While opt out may stop this, it may also stop remote programming. That is something I can't answer. It may be a factor in Network Remote Control also. That setting could be affected.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

When I have lost connectivity, I have been unable to delete programs using My Shows but have been able, if I recall correctly, to delete shows by advancing within them to the end and then deleting them that way.


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## ramiss (Jan 30, 2014)

This seems completely unacceptable. If internet goes down the TiVo should at least be able to work for 24 hours.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

ramiss said:


> This seems completely unacceptable. If internet goes down the TiVo should at least be able to work for 24 hours.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


Bull, 24 hours; The TiVo should work (recording watching and one-pass setup) without the internet until it runs out of guide data, about 12 to 13 days.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

lessd said:


> bull, 24 hours; the tivo should work (recording watching and one-pass setup) without the internet until it runs out of guide data, about 12 to 13 days.


+1


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

lessd said:


> Bull, 24 hours; The TiVo should work (recording watching and one-pass setup) without the internet until it runs out of guide data, about 12 to 13 days.


Mine does, apart from being able to delete shows from the My Shows screen (as opposed to within the show, at the end of it--TiVo explained this to me as a programming crossover idiosyncrasy).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> Mine does, apart from being able to delete shows from the My Shows screen (as opposed to within the show, at the end of it--TiVo explained this to me as a *programming crossover idiosyncrasy*).


That. Is. Hilarious.


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## WorldBandRadio (Dec 20, 2010)

lessd said:


> Bull, 24 hours; The TiVo should work (recording watching and one-pass setup) without the internet until it runs out of guide data, about 12 to 13 days.


I have the network switch for my home entertainment unit located where I can see the network activity lights. At times, the only item that is active is the TiVo, so any network activity is due to the TiVo. (I've also watched the network activity using wireshark, and have come to a similar conclusion)

It appears that TiVo's usage of the network (and subsequently the Internet) is near continuous when one is navigating the menus. Based upon the timing of the network activity, it looks almost as if every menu movement is telegraphed back to TiVo.

At times, it appears that the phoning home is done between moving from one menu item to another. If TiVo's servers happen to be slow (which happens all too frequently), then the cursor doesn't move or the menu goes blank while the TiVo is awaiting a response from home. If TiVo's servers are real slow, then the infamous spinning blue circle appears....


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Interesting. Perhaps TiVo mining all of this consumer behavior data?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Mikeguy said:


> Interesting. Perhaps TiVo mining all of this consumer behavior data?


Wait till people find the secret built in camera on all Roamios!!


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

I _knew_ that there had to be a reason for the Roamio Summer sale . . . .


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

lessd said:


> Wait till people find the secret built in camera on all Roamios!!


If that camera is there to enable facial recognition for quick login to one's TiVo user profile, I'm all for it.


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## gespears (Aug 10, 2007)

lessd said:


> Wait till people find the secret built in camera on all Roamios!!


Mine is built into the rear of my Roamio so all I see is the wall.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

gespears said:


> Mine is built into the rear of my Roamio so all I see is the wall.


That's just because its TiVo's first generation implementation of this feature. They'll turn it the other way with the next generation (of course, you'll need to buy a new lifetime subscription for it to work).


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## Laserfan (Apr 25, 2000)

My new TiVo Roamio OTA wouldn't let me delete a show due to "no internet connectivity", and while I indeed had an outage some 18 or so hours earlier, at the time of this display the internet was working fine. My router was OK so I fiddled with the TiVo a bit to try to re-establish connectivity to no good result. I finally restarted the TiVo and it came back up in that way.

If it does not record new shows either when this happens, it's for sure Not Good because we need our TiVos to work w/o having to babysit the thing constantly.


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## Doug95630 (Oct 15, 2015)

I know the topic is about the Roamio, but I noticed that the power to the Bolt is 12 volts through a power adapter. I am hoping to take the Bolt with me in my travel trailer so that I could view recorded programming while away from home. It would go without internet for extended periods of time. Any idea if this will be a problem?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Doug95630 said:


> I know the topic is about the Roamio, but I noticed that the power to the Bolt is 12 volts through a power adapter. I am hoping to take the Bolt with me in my travel trailer so that I could view recorded programming while away from home. It would go without internet for extended periods of time. Any idea if this will be a problem?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Even if the TiVo becomes a brick after some time of not calling home you watch what you recorded forever (unless the TiVo stops working).


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## Borismedia (Aug 14, 2016)

We have an OTA on the way and reading this thread got me wondering what we'll run into with our internet. We have unlimited data on our cell phones and that is our only internet. Will the Tivo behave when we are not home with the internet on? When we're watching it, the internet can be on no problem.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Borismedia said:


> We have an OTA on the way and reading this thread got me wondering what we'll run into with our internet. We have unlimited data on our cell phones and that is our only internet. Will the Tivo behave when we are not home with the internet on? When we're watching it, the internet can be on no problem.


It will not be happy but should function just fine. You may have to do manual call ins if it is off line for extended periods of time to get guide data.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

It will behave VERY badly without constant internet. You might have shinny-circles trying to start recordings, etc, won't be able to View Upcoming, etc..


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

You'll definitely have to learn which things work without trying to phone home and which things send it into a loop timing out.

For instance in the My Shows screen: Never press right arrow to go into the details for a show. Just press play to start playing it or clear to delete it. You'll be dead in the water for several minutes if you press right arrow as it tries to lookup all sorts of info about the show.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

tomhorsley said:


> You'll definitely have to learn which things work without trying to phone home and which things send it into a loop timing out.
> 
> For instance in the My Shows screen: Never press right arrow to go into the details for a show. Just press play to start playing it or clear to delete it. You'll be dead in the water for several minutes if you press right arrow as it tries to lookup all sorts of info about the show.


No. For a demonstration, try disconnecting the Roamio Ethernet cable. There are NO delays, it immediately gives up. Depending on the option (say explore shows), it may say "No Internet Connection".

Details of a recording are there and are shown without delay with Ethernet off.

I know because I often have my modem off. In fact if the circles get really annoying because TiVo servers are slow, I will turn the modem off.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

jth tv said:


> I know because I often have my modem off. In fact if the circles get really annoying because TiVo servers are slow, I will turn the modem off.


I think you posted that before. and i tried it. and it worked on those circles. thanks :up:
although keeping the modem wasn't viable very long. but disconnecting ethernet :up:


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Yep, it's very sad that Tivo refuses to fix their UI network code to time-out quickly when their servers don't respond (and/or to do all their metrics in the background). Saw lots of BSCs last night, to the point where I couldn't even modify a recording.


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