# Thinking about dumping DTV. Options??



## boomerzimm (Jan 14, 2010)

I am tired of paying for direct TV and waiting until they have a new Tivo HD solution. I was excited and loved HD when it came out and having the 2 tuner 10-250 Tivo was awesome. However over the last year we think we would like to reduce our expenses due to job and income changes. I would like to continue getting the locals OTA with a Tivo. I would guess I'd have to go to one of the newer HD units.

Our big problems are:

1: We have gone to cellular only phones so no phone lines
2: Slow internet <1.2m I assume we can get program info from this but streaming will be difficult 

Is there anyone out there who is happy with just OTA and getting shows that show only on satalite/cable from netflix on DVD? I would think that would be our total television resource.

I am going to miss a couple cable staples but I may be able to get them over the computer. Here is the math and according to my calculations the curve meets at 9 months. After that you we are saving $73.50/month. and have upgraded our netflix choices. Tell me what am I missing?

Presently
Sat bill=$78.50
Netflix=$9.00

tivo+lifetime=$650
Netflix $14.00

Thanks
Boomer


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## whitepelican (Feb 15, 2005)

You're not missing anything, other than maybe overpricing the Tivo a bit (A TivoHD is $217 w/ free shipping on Amazon).

I did a similar DirecTV to OTA transition just about 4-6 weeks ago. Except we were used to having multiple HR10-250s around the house. So I first bought a Series2 Tivo w/ lifetime from ebay for about $120. I installed a larger hard drive in it and hooked it up to a DirecTV receiver while I still had DirecTV active so I could record a boatload of cable shows (mostly kids' shows).

Next, I bought a pair of Series 3's for under $100 each and installed larger drives in them. I bought lifetime for each of them with the multi-service discount for already having the lifetime Series2 (which I had only owned for a week or two) so it was only $299. I hooked the Series2 to a digital converter box to get OTA on it, and the Series 3's are only hooked to OTA also. The three Tivos are all networked for MRV as well.

I had planned to get a Netflix account, but we have so far been pretty happy without it. We don't watch a lot of movies. And I've used the slightly less ethical bit torrent route to get a few TV shows that we've wanted to see. My family has been thrilled with this change so far, and although the upfront costs were certainly extensive it will take less than a year to recoup them. Altogether I paid:

$120 - Used Series 2 w/ lifetime 
$85 - Series 3 from ebay
$80 - 1TB drive for Series 3
$299 - lifetime service for Series 3
$80 - Series 3 from ebay
$95 - 1.5TB drive for Series 3
$299 - lifetime service for Series 3
-------
$1058 if my math is correct.

I believe I paid DirecTV somewhere around $1150 last year, so with their rates going up I will break even in slightly less than a year and after that it's a free ride. That said, my DirecTV service is currently only suspended and we'll see if I decide to bring it back after six months. I might just do a six months on and six months off situation so I can see a few more football games in the fall.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

whitepelican said:


> And I've used the slightly less ethical bit torrent route to get a few TV shows that we've wanted to see.


Your math is *slightly *biased. It is obvious that any time you steal something it will cost you less than buying it. You might as well pirate satellite to save even more.


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## boomerzimm (Jan 14, 2010)

lets keep on task here, its about me and I can't torrent anything. Our "out in the sticks" internet provider blocks that sort of thing. I will miss sports a bit.....

Series 3's with lifetime on fleebay are going for around $550 so that rolls back the break even to under 8 months. That ebay thing is a good suggestion thanks.


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## DishIsBetter (Dec 3, 2009)

PACKAGE: 
DishFAMILY $24.99

ADDITIONAL PROGRAMMING:
Local Channels

HARDWARE: 
HD DuoDVR Receiver
DISH DVR Service
$5.98

Monthly $30.97 with DVR & *no hardware costs*

Channels:

* Alma Vision Hispanic Network
* ANGEL ONE
* ANGEL TWO
* ANIMAL PLANET
* BIO
* BLOOMBERG TELEVISION
* BOOMERANG
* BYUTV
* C-SPAN
* C-SPAN2
* CBS COLLEGE SPORTS TELEVISION
* CCTV-9
* CCTV-E
* CD-KIDTUNES
* COLOURS TV
* DAYSTAR
* DISCOVERY KIDS
* DO IT YOURSELF
* ETERNAL WORD TELEVISION NETWORK
* FLN
* FOOD NETWORK
* FOX NEWS CHANNEL
* GREAT AMERICAN COUNTRY
* HALLMARK CHANNEL
* HALLMARK MOVIE CHANNEL
* HEADLINE NEWS
* HSN
* In Country Television
* Investigation Discovery
* KIDS & TEENS TELEVISION
* NASA
* NICK TOONS
* NICKELODEON/NICK AT NITE (EAST)
* NICKELODEON/NICK AT NITE (WEST)
* QVC
* RFDTV
* SHOPNBC
* The Outdoor Channel
* THE SCIENCE CHANNEL
* The Weather Channel
* Three Angels Broadcasting Network
* TRINITY BROADCASTING NETWORK
* TV LAND


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## whitepelican (Feb 15, 2005)

samo said:


> Your math is *slightly *biased. It is obvious that any time you steal something it will cost you less than buying it. You might as well pirate satellite to save even more.


Sorry, internet cop. Here's about 400 more posts for you to police.

By the way, the two times that I can recall downloading torrents they were for an awards show and a sports event. So I guess I cost the people who were going to sell DVDs of those things a boatload of money. But I don't really have a problem with anyone getting any other televised programs that way, either.


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## whitepelican (Feb 15, 2005)

DishIsBetter said:


> PACKAGE:
> DishFAMILY $24.99
> 
> ADDITIONAL PROGRAMMING:
> ...


What an absolute garbage programming package. That's pretty similar in price and quality to the DirecTV family package, which I had for awhile and is the whole reason I went with OTA now. You're basically paying that monthly fee to have access to your free local channels and little else.


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## boomerzimm (Jan 14, 2010)

whitepelican said:


> What an absolute garbage programming package. That's pretty similar in price and quality to the DirecTV family package, which I had for awhile and is the whole reason I went with OTA now. You're basically paying that monthly fee to have access to your free local channels and little else.


Got to agree with that. Surfing through 30 channels of shopping and religious programming is not what I signed up for. Actually seeing these channels there when I have to reprogram my channel guide is what made me think that I'm paying for a ton of garbage I don't want and don't want to support. If I could pay 20$/month and get 10 channels that I could choose I'd have no problems.

All in all that spamming post for the dish craptacular package would make me want it even less. On top of the crappy programming and spam post, I've used their equipment and it's worse than DTV's DVR. Nothing better than having to scroll through an advertisement after every 3 listing on the program guide. There is a reason its free.

Boom


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## STL (Feb 10, 2005)

A year ago, I ended up switching to DISH and now have their TurboHD Silver package. Their HD-only TurboHD packages are no longer advertised but they are still available; you don't get as many channels but you also don't pay as much. I am getting almost all the channels I want (save 1 or 2 -- but I can live without them) and saving over $20/month compared to what I was spending with D* (and this is after my even-cheaper introductory pricing expired).

Here is are the TurboHD Silver channels:
_A&E
ABC Family
Animal Planet
Bravo
Cartoon Network
CBS College Sports
CMT
CNBC
CNN
Comedy Central
Discovery
Disney Channel
Disney XD
ESPN
ESPN 2
ESPNews
Food Network
Fox Sports Midwest
Golf Channel
HD Theater
HDNet
HGTV
History
Lifetime
Lifetime Movie Network
NBA TV
NFL Network
Palladia
Spike
SyFy
TBS
TLC
TNT
Travel Channel
USA
Weather Channel
WGN America_


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## STL (Feb 10, 2005)

boomerzimm said:


> On top of the crappy programming and spam post, I've used their equipment and it's worse than DTV's DVR. Nothing better than having to scroll through an advertisement after every 3 listing on the program guide. There is a reason its free.


While there are some things about by DISH 722 that I don't like compared to my ol' HR10-250 -- there are several things the 722 does better. And as for the new HD DVRs from D*, I hear nothing but bad things about them. And I have never seen an ad in my program guide listing so I'm not sure where you got that misinformation.


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## Scooter (Mar 15, 2000)

Ignoring financial issues, I think you should take a second look at Directv's HD DVR. They are quite good now, and multi-room viewing is working well. 

/waits for the bashing to begin.


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## parzec (Jun 21, 2002)

I too grew tired of paying for DirecTV or Cable and went OTA and Netflix with TvoHD. After using this system for almost a year I am completely happy with this setup and haven't looked back. BTW: You can still stream at 1.2m, it just won't be in HD or high quality -- but will still be viewable.


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## boomerzimm (Jan 14, 2010)

OK so I made the leap and just got off the phone with direct TV to cancel my service. They begged me to stay free hockey since they canceled VS. lower overall prices free movies. Everyone should call and complain, you will get a lower rate. Since i already purchased all teh equipment to defect I canceled anyway.

BTW. When I stated their lack of a new HD tivo as my main reason for cutting the cord they promised a new box will be out in the summer. Take it with a major grain of salt but that's what she said.

Series 2 Tivo w/lifetime for Pokeroom $130
Lowtech magnavox Tuner for series2 $24.50
Extra Drive to repair Shipping damage $89
Antenna for Poker Room $30
Series 3 Tivo with 1000gig drive $227.50
Lifetime Service W/multi unit discount $299

Total outlay for Changeover=$800 Its a little more than I wanted to spend but it will still payout in less than a year. Hopefully I'll get the cost of the drive back from ups but I'm not holding my breath.

Cheers
Boomer


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## rolybert (Oct 1, 2008)

whitepelican said:


> What an absolute garbage programming package. That's pretty similar in price and quality to the DirecTV family package, which I had for awhile and is the whole reason I went with OTA now. You're basically paying that monthly fee to have access to your free local channels and little else.


failed to mention that with the HD DVR If you dont have any HD programing you pay 8 dollars more(with NO HD) or 10 more for a basic HD package.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Steal something? How about the movie industry stealing from us? I just spent $39.50 (family of 5) to go see Alice in Wonderland and probably the same for the damn snacks.

Then they have the audacity to talk about the painter for the set getting ripped off (some commercial they had at the theater regarding piracy). Not to mention the $20 million the actor/actress gets paid for the movie and they want to talk about the painter. Why don't they put Harrison Ford on the screen and tell us that we are ripping him off?

Please tell me... who is stealing from who? I do not personally believe in downloading movies like this but I'm just saying that it's a thin line between stealing and really stealing.



samo said:


> Your math is *slightly *biased. It is obvious that any time you steal something it will cost you less than buying it. You might as well pirate satellite to save even more.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

You will definitely get that money back within the year. Glad to see another defector in the ranks.

200 channels of crap does not make for a great package. I wonder how long it will take Directv to figure that out.

I think with UPS that it's all or nothing. So, you would have had to been willing to give them the Tivo and get a full refund.



boomerzimm said:


> OK so I made the leap and just got off the phone with direct TV to cancel my service. They begged me to stay free hockey since they canceled VS. lower overall prices free movies. Everyone should call and complain, you will get a lower rate. Since i already purchased all teh equipment to defect I canceled anyway.
> 
> BTW. When I stated their lack of a new HD tivo as my main reason for cutting the cord they promised a new box will be out in the summer. Take it with a major grain of salt but that's what she said.
> 
> ...


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

magnus said:


> Steal something? How about the movie industry stealing from us? I just spent $39.50 (family of 5) to go see Alice in Wonderland and probably the same for the damn snacks.
> 
> Then they have the audacity to talk about the painter for the set getting ripped off (some commercial they had at the theater regarding piracy). Not to mention the $20 million the actor/actress gets paid for the movie and they want to talk about the painter. Why don't they put Harrison Ford on the screen and tell us that we are ripping him off?
> 
> Please tell me... who is stealing from who? I do not personally believe in downloading movies like this but I'm just saying that it's a thin line between stealing and really stealing.


So join this gang and make it right - steal direct from celebrities.


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## bciocco (Mar 28, 2009)

My story is similar. I was a Dish customer for nine years and was always fairly happy with the service. Then I did the math and looked at what I was receiving. It was costing me $61.55 per month for Dish. I had the 200+ package and locals.
I have a five year old "HD ready" TV that, at that time, I had not ever seen HD programming on. If I wanted to add HD to my Dish package, it would have been an extra $10 per month. I did the math and decided that I didn't watch $1000 worth of TV per year and started looking for an HD tuner with a DVR. 
I went through all of the options I could find (including building a HTPC) and Tivo with a Netflix account seemed like the best option. 
I bought the TiVo and canceled the Dish service. I was so enthralled by all of the HD programming on the networks and figuring out what we wanted to add to the season pass option, I waited a couple of months to add Netflix. We initially budgeted for the two at a time program and decided that the one at a time is more than enough for us. I have a 750 kps DSL subscription through ATT and the Netflix on Demand is fine; usually DVD quality and definitely satellite quality. The TiVo is hard wired into the wireless router to eliminate ant issues with wireless and because I didn't want to pay for a wireless dongle. Yes, I went into the attic and spent a half day running a wired network to save about $50 (cat 5 cable and boxes were about $10). That said, I was up there running wiring for the new TV antenna anyway. 
A year into it, moving to over the air was one of the smartest things I ever did. I don't miss anything. The TiVO is hands down better than the DVR I had with Dish. I was able to sell my Dish DVR on Craig's List for close to what I paid for it. Not including selling the Dish DVR, my savings for the first year are over $200. That includes all of the equipment and cabling I purchased to make the transition; and I have a better television experience.

I guess I said all of that to say, you should be fine with 1.2 MPS. I have ATT DSL Ultra and it is fine. I am not a big sports fan, so I am fine with what the networks have to offer. My wife's laptop has an S-Video out, so we are able to watch some internet stuff from Hulu, Jusint.tv, and US Open tennis with a pretty good picture. Sometimes it just takes being creative. We also have a great public library that has a large DVD section for movies and TV series. If I want a catalog title, I sometimes will check it out from there rather than getting it from Netflix. 

As good as my service was with Dish, I have no intention of going back. I certainly wouldn't go to cable, which, in my opinion, is a big step down from satellite in quality and service.

If you want to compare, below is my report from dslreports.com:
Run: 2010-03-07 18:10:49 EST
Download: 1161 (Kbps)
Upload: 215 (Kbps)


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

I think witht he combination of OTA and Netflix you will never look back


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## scummybear (Mar 3, 2010)

> Is there anyone out there who is happy with just OTA and getting shows that show only on satalite/cable from netflix on DVD? I would think that would be our total television resource.


Just went OTA/NetFlix and so far, it is just a money saver. I currently have Comcast basic cable package which costs $10.20 a month. Only reason behind that is that the cable internet is cheaper when you subscribe to a cable package. So I am paying 10 bucks for something I could get for free with an antenna, but saving 40 plus for the internet. So it is the cheaper route to take.

And as far as missing the occasional shows that aren't on OTA, you could always just buy (assuming you aren't willing to torrent) a season pass from Amazon VOD for like 18 dollars. Would still be saving in the long run.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

yeah, I use Amazon to catch up on shows I miss from F/X and it is certainly much cheaper than paying for cable


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

I'm not saying it's okay to steal. I'm saying that stealing is stealing no matter how you look at it. That they are stealing from the American public by absorbent amounts of money being pumped into their a**es.

I'd really like to see the commercial that shows one of these celebrities crying about the piracy that goes on. About how they are taking away from their being able to fly their jet plane with 2 people on it across the damn country. Or they can't make that payment on their mansions.

You simply won't find any of them wanting to take a stand for the overpriced tickets that the movie studios charge. You hear about how they want to save the dolphins or help elect an incompetent person to the Presidency but you never hear about their doing something for the average Joe.

They're always quick to tell you their politics, views on what everyone else should do, how they are saving the planet and then they whine about how they should not have to deal with paparazzi.

I'm just a little miffed that you say that downloading a TV show is piracy. What exactly is there about a TV show that is on regular TV and someone happens to miss then downloads from bitorrent that makes you think it's piracy?



samo said:


> So join this gang and make it right - steal direct from celebrities.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

My mom told me long time ago that taking something without permission of the owner is theft. Being it intellectual property, Prada purse or diamond ring makes no difference. It makes no difference if you are stealing from the rich or you are stealing from the poor. It makes no difference if you are stealing millions or if you are stealing a dollar. The key words are "permission of the owner". If owner of the intellectual property puts it in a free domain - it is a fair use. If owner offers it for a fee, but you decide to get it for free using illegal copy that is available on Internet it is theft. 
You paid $50 to see a movie. They did not steal from you, you gave them your money yourself. What they done with your money is none of your business, the money is no longer yours. There are a lot of ways to ensure that your money doesn't go toward a cause you do not support. If you think that movie industry overcharges you, just stop going to the movies.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

I go on very rare occasions because of that very fact. It seems that it affects my children the most. They like to go and I don't like to part with that kind of money. 

It must be nice to have more than enough money and all the morals to go with it.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

magnus said:


> You simply won't find any of them wanting to take a stand for the overpriced tickets that the movie studios charge.


the Movie studios do not set the movie ticket price - they get their money by the theater paying for the movie to show. Ironically it is because people go to the movies far less often that the movie theater charges more. Way to be part of the problem


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## scummybear (Mar 3, 2010)

So is using the ability to fast forward through commercials stealing in your mind then?


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## STL (Feb 10, 2005)

bciocco said:


> My story is similar. I was a Dish customer for nine years and was always fairly happy with the service. Then I did the math and looked at what I was receiving. It was costing me $61.55 per month for Dish. I had the 200+ package and locals.
> I have a five year old "HD ready" TV that, at that time, I had not ever seen HD programming on. If I wanted to add HD to my Dish package, it would have been an extra $10 per month. I did the math and decided that I didn't watch $1000 worth of TV per month and started looking for an HD tuner with a DVR.


I guess you weren't aware of the HD-only packages available from Dish Network. The used to be called TurboHD Bronze, TurboHD Silver, and TurboHD Gold but now they are named DishAmerica, DishAmerica Silver, DishAmerica Gold. The lowest package is only $30/month. You don't get as many channels, but the ones you get are the better ones you'll actually watch. I thought about going OTA and building a HTPC or buying a HD-Tivo, but these days too much sports programming is on ESPN (and other cables networks) -- so that's what has kept me connected to DISH. That said, if they didn't have these cheaper HD-only packages available I'd just have to dump them and go OTA and live without some of the sports programming.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

magnus said:


> It must be nice to have more than enough money and all the morals to go with it.


It must be, but according to rich people "more than enough money" situation never occurs. Morals have no correlation to the amount of money you have, Madoff is a prime example.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

scummybear said:


> So is using the ability to fast forward through commercials stealing in your mind then?


No. EUL for the legally obtained content does not specify requirement to watch commercials. If it did and was displayed before the show starts, then skipping commercials would be illegal and DVR providers would be out of business.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

scummybear said:


> So is using the ability to fast forward through commercials stealing in your mind then?


Same thing as speed reading.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

scummybear said:


> So is using the ability to fast forward through commercials stealing in your mind then?


I don't think anyone has ever claimed it is illegal. But in various speeches and conferences (at least one of which made the mainstream news and was discussed here years ago) advertisers have claimed that it violates an implied contract, but that's another issue. By watching a show with commercials you have agreed to be exposed to the commercial material in exchange for being entertained by the content.

Interestingly they do not feel, for examples, that going to the kitchen for a sandwich, or just plain inattention or going to the bathroom are violations, just fast-forwarding.


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## scummybear (Mar 3, 2010)

> Same thing as speed reading.


How is "speed reading" the same as skipping ahead 30 secs at a tick to avoid the paying sponsors advertisement?

While speed reading, yes you aren't picking up every word, but you are retaining information from it. Skipping a commercial isn't picking up anything. An entire commercial could be 30 seconds in which case you have no idea at all what it is about.


> No. EUL for the legally obtained content does not specify requirement to watch commercials. If it did and was displayed before the show starts, then skipping commercials would be illegal and DVR providers would be out of business.


Now I am not going to disagree with you here, as I wasn't really trying to be funny. Just curious as to peoples boundaries of thought on theft/piracy that said stealing is stealing when it comes to torrents. But that is a whole separate issue which is straying way off topic from thread.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Ok, cool.



ZeoTiVo said:


> the Movie studios do not set the movie ticket price - they get their money by the theater paying for the movie to show. Ironically it is because people go to the movies far less often that the movie theater charges more. Way to be part of the problem


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