# HR20-700S - Works great, what's the big deal?



## Bionic_peon (Apr 12, 2002)

Short of the no dual buffers issue and the fact that OTA HD isnt enabled until 12/1, I love the new HR20. I've used the SAT-60, the Hughes Tivo Series 2 and the HR10-250 and while I loved them, they had their share of issues. 

Now if your HR20 is locking up and freezing I can see that, but there's a ton of features I've seen so far that the HR10-250 didnt have that I see real value in. For example, the +/- 12 hours in the guide is great, the collapsable organization of recordings in the playlist so its easier to read, the mini guide to use the guide and watch your show at the same time, the PIP-like thumbnail image in the top right when you do go to the full guide, transparent menu over the image so it doesn't interrupt your watching.

I've recorded about 8 programs (some HD some SD) and they all played back in their entirety without issues. 

HDMI, eSATA, Ethernet, faster scrolling, the hardware is good too.


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

Hi Mr. Shill. Nice to meet you.


----------



## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

And you REALLY are expecting an "atta boy" in THIS forum???


----------



## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

There's a separate forum on DBS talk for discussing all the problems with the HR20.

http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=112


----------



## Robert Spalding (Jan 12, 2001)

you guys are mean....and I like it!


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Your info is only welcome here if you find the unit stinks, then it will be greeted and cuddled by everyone here. Anything that suggests that it's decent or that anything about it is one iota better in your opinion than TiVo will result in what you've gotten here which is pretty much "go away, we only like TiVo Fanboys."


----------



## dscott72 (Mar 30, 2006)

Sounds like a DirecTv lacky trying to promote the piece of crap HR20-700 to us die hard DirecTv/Tivo users.

Get a clue. IT ISN'T TIVO. We want TIVO. Enough said.


----------



## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

Billy66 said:


> Your info is only welcome here if you find the unit stinks, then it will be greeted and cuddled by everyone here.


No, NOT really...guess some people just do NOT get the radical concept of a forum that clearly states ONLY FOR THE DISCUSSION OF THE *D* HD TIVO'S* - NOT DISH'S DVR'S, NOT D* POS DVR'S, NOT MOTOROLA DVR'S, nor how GOOD OR how BAD any of the above metioned NON-D* HD DVR'S ARE.    

Gee, maybe THAT'S why there's umpteen OTHER forums for the disussion of said DVR'S above.


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

I hear ya dishrich, I do, but if that were it, why do these same posters engage and contribute to threads that are designed only to tear down other DVR's? Seems the only time the posters here look for that seperation is when the message doesn't match their opinion. When it does, that forum rule is ignored completely and the bash fest is on. 

Just an observation that it seems cool (in the eyes of posters) to discuss what's wrong with it, but completely taboo for someone to have any level of satisfaction.


----------



## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

dishrich said:


> No, NOT really...guess some people just do NOT get the radical concept of a forum that clearly states ONLY FOR THE DISCUSSION OF THE *D* HD TIVO'S* - NOT DISH'S DVR'S, NOT D* POS DVR'S, NOT MOTOROLA DVR'S, nor how GOOD OR how BAD any of the above metioned NON-D* HD DVR'S ARE.
> 
> Gee, maybe THAT'S why there's umpteen OTHER forums for the disussion of said DVR'S above.


You know when I bought my Honda Pilot I spent quite a bit of time on a forum dedicated to honda pilots. (yep they have a whole forum for Honda Pilots) They even included a whole section to compare the Pilot with other automobiles. What a concept comparing other products in the same category. I don't understand why people get so upset about comparing DVRs not made by TiVo. It is not like this site is part of TiVo inc. It even says that below the TCF banner at the top of the site.


----------



## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Let's call it what it is - many disillusioned D* subs who feel betrayed and taking out their anger on the subs who have moved on and are just trying to share and spread hope to fellow hr10 users.

It reminds me of shows like Jerry Springer when a husband cheats on his wife and the wife attacks the other women instead of the husband. 

I am amazed at what some people will put up with especially when there are better alternatives.


----------



## hongcho (Nov 26, 2003)

> HR20-700S - Works great, what's the big deal?

It's not a TiVo?

Hong.


----------



## heaphus (Aug 30, 2004)

There are many other DirecTV subjects that are freely discussed here, that have less specific relevance to the HR10-250 than the product, HR20, that is directly intended to replace it. If we are going to be such sticklers, then all of the general programming, future programming, Ruppert Murdoch/News Corp., retention deals, blah blah blah discussions should be met with the same "This a DirecTivo only forum..." rhetoric. The comparison between discussing the future of DTV HD PVRs(HR20), and the discussion of Comcast and Motorola PVRs, which have no connection to either the HR10, or DirecTV, is simply apples and oranges. You simply can't compare the relevance of the HR20 which, barring a major reversal of the course by DTV that will eventually make the HR10 and this forum inconsequential, and products from other, competing companies. With that said, I find it interesting, and even humorous, that this recent thread, which asks about HD channels on Dish and evolves into a discussion about the merits of the new Dish pvr, has not been met with one single admonishing post. To sum it up, I just don't see the harm in a little bit of discussion about the HR20, and the pros and cons of it versus the HR10. If someone comes here and asks a more specific detailed question about it, a simple polite note pointing the user to the "other forum" will suffice.

Perhaps we need a sub-forum called " The DirecTivo users therapy couch" for all of us to take our frustrations out on DTV for making the switch. Truth be told, I could spend a little time in there, LOL.


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

About a year ago when the R15 came out, TiVo asked David to ban discussion of the unit here. It's Tivo the company that fears this discussion and they justify it (probably rightfully so), with their sponsor dollars.


----------



## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

fastep said:


> Let's call it what it is - many disillusioned D* subs who feel betrayed and taking out their anger on the subs who have moved on and are just trying to share and spread hope to fellow hr10 users.
> 
> It reminds me of shows like Jerry Springer when a husband cheats on his wife and the wife attacks the other women instead of the husband.
> 
> I am amazed at what some people will put up with especially when there are better alternatives.


I'm all ears...what's the 'better alternative?'


----------



## ethos (Sep 19, 2006)

Hey fanboys, tivo is not that great. 

Ultimate TV was much better and more stable than anything Tivo has done.

Flame away.


----------



## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Sir_whinealot said:


> I'm all ears...what's the 'better alternative?'


I use the moto6412 III and sony dhg500 with comcast. Very responsive, instant one touch record, much easier access to menus and favorites guide, native passthrough, dual 90 min buffers (single tuner with sony), much better PQ and very reliable. We also get more HD content including all local HD and 4 premium HD movie channels. We just got MTV HD and will soon be getting NatGeo HD and A&E HD.

Much better than D* and the hr10 (IMHO) and less expensive when bundled with HS internet and phone.


----------



## fastep (May 22, 2004)

ethos said:


> Hey fanboys, tivo is not that great.
> 
> Ultimate TV was much better and more stable than anything Tivo has done.


I agree. Of all the dvrs I've used, UTV was the best (the moto6412 is a close second). Too bad microsoft hasn't come out with an HD version of UTV for use with cablecard. At least not yet...


----------



## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Talk about fanboys. Feature for feature UTV was competitive with TiVo for about fifteen minutes after it came out, then TiVo left it in the dust. Unless, of course, you were really enamored of PiP and didn't care whether your programs actually recorded.

I guess it was better than a VCR, though.
http://www.pvrcompare.com/


----------



## redfiver (Apr 17, 2006)

I didn't like the UTV at all. My favorite was the SAT-60. I like HD, but still miss my SAT-60. It was rock solid. Never had a problem and I loved the interface (which made me a tivo-lover). Now that I have a HR20 and a HR10-250, I'm having trouble with the HR20. To me, it's just not as intuative as the HR10. granted, it could be because I've been using Tivo for so long now, anything else is very different. Many features of the HR20 and the HR10 are similar and I can adjust if necessary (or just run both for now...). But, my favorite thing on Tivo compared to the HR20 is dual buffers. I love the dual buffers. I want the dual buffers. The dual buffers is the deal killer for me on the HR20. Sometimes I don't only watch recorded shows, but then i time shift while using the dual buffers. This is especially true with sports. I really hate this about the HR20 and I often find myself hitting the 'down' arrow on the HR20 to great fustration. That and OTA recordings, but that's supposed to be coming on the HR20 so I can overlook that one.


----------



## mlobitz (Dec 31, 2001)

I totally agree. I called DTV tonight after having the HR20 for ONE DAY and told them to deactivate it. I'll just use my HR10. I was told that I would have to send the unit back, so they gave me $5 off for 6 months to cover the additional cost of the HR20 until they get it up to snuff. No dual buffers is lame. Who came up with that one? and no OTA is a killer in Sacramento. No FOX HD here over mpeg4. Yes, it's true, we are the only city, well, there might be one other city, without FOX HD over mpeg4 in the whole country. Those two things killed it and now I have a "perfectly good" HR20 just taking up space next to my nice HR10. Maybe in six months DTV will have their act together on the HR20. Also...I waited 2 months, I weathered FOUR MISSED INSTALLATION APPOINTMENTS, for this thing and I shelved it in one day. Get back to me when this thing is ready for prime time.


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Wow, you're really patient mlobitz  Seriously, for those that have the chance to use both, you should. If the HR20 isn't what you need now, you may see it grow to that as the programming only available on it increases in number.

One day? I would have sent my TiVo back after one day. A DVR takes time to bond with.


----------



## ethos (Sep 19, 2006)

nrc said:


> Talk about fanboys. Feature for feature UTV was competitive with TiVo for about fifteen minutes after it came out, then TiVo left it in the dust. Unless, of course, you were really enamored of PiP and didn't care whether your programs actually recorded.
> 
> I guess it was better than a VCR, though.
> http://www.pvrcompare.com/


from the review:
Summary

For me the biggest differences between the two are their search capabilities, user interface, and conflict management. Tivo wins (*sometimes narrowly*) on all three counts with:

* More straightforward interface requiring fewer screens and button presses.
* User settable scheduling priorities
* Better detection of reruns and control over "no-repeat" rule

All of which makes Tivo the better machine for most uses. UltimateTV has a few advantages:

* 30-second skip, good for short jumps, and some prefer it for skipping commercials.
* Automatic padding helps cover for sloppy network scheduling
* Time restricted repeating recordings control multiply aired shows that lack the guide data Tivos first run & 28 day no-repeat features require
* Filter options allow a few specialized searches Tivo doesn't

UltimateTV is competent enough that a particularly appealing feature or a good price would make it worthwhile, but Tivo is a generally better DVR - of course it's also the only one still sold.

---------------

This review was also done back in 2003 before a big upgrade to ultimate TV.

I dunno I'd say it stuck in there for more than 15min. Plus UTV wasnt afraid to put the 30sec skip button right on the remote without using a code to activate it everytime the power went out.

If UTV still made boxes i certainly wouldnt have a Tivo. To me at least the UI was rock solid and easy to use. Things like the Pip when your in menus, that everyone seems to like about the HR20, was in the UTV when it launched.

just my opinion.


----------



## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

nrc said:


> Talk about fanboys. Feature for feature UTV was competitive with TiVo for about fifteen minutes after it came out, then TiVo left it in the dust.


I got my first D-TiVo in March 2001 and at that time UTV had dual tuners and that same feature was several months away for the D-TiVo, so the notion they were "left in the dust fifteen minutes" after TiVo debuted isn't how I recall it. The UTV users lorded that fact on sat boards until we finally had dual tuners. And, as a Sports fan, I really wish there were more D* DVRs with PIP.

What separated the D-TiVo for me was the fact that there was a Lifetime Service option at that time. UTV owners are still paying $9.99/mo., so I'm comfortable with the choice I made. They also didn't get a S2 or a HD-capable model.

I'm a HR20 and Win MCE user because I don't want to limit my choice when it comes to DVR any more. The whole concept of DVR is more important to me than just one platform. When TiVo eliminated Lifetime as an option, it sent a clear signal to me. IMO, no DVR is worth $19.95/mo. tied to a one year commitment.

But, Bionic_peon, you're wasting your time trying to convince fans of a platform on a board tied to that platform of the virtues of other DVRs. The reception won't be warm & fuzzy. My HR20 is working fine as well. But, there will be a lot more tolerance of any missteps by TiVo than for another platform here. That's just how it is.


----------



## mlobitz (Dec 31, 2001)

I know...one day isn't a long time, but I have played with these gadgets for YEARS and I have been reading about the HR20 for months. Also, one of my friends has had one for a couple of months. He calls me all the time...why doesn't it do this, why doesn't it do that??? IT"S NOT A TIVO, I tell him, but he keeps trying to switch between tuners  .

Here's the deal...in ONE DAY the thing had two unwatchable recordings...Heroes and Studio 60...two of my favorite shows...so I wasn't too pleased about that. I was wasn't too happy either while I was watching the Lakers/Clippers game on channel 95. It kept going wacky with the pixelation and sound drops, so I quickly powered up my HR10 for the second half...not a SINGLE problem on the same channel...please explain to me why I should alpha test this thing???


----------



## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

Bionic_peon said:


> I've recorded about 8 programs (some HD some SD) and they all played back in their entirety without issues.


Power user.


----------



## stephenC (Apr 15, 2004)

One day, maybe in the year 2007 DirecTV will begin sending down from the heavens channels covering the nation of the USA that are encoded in MPEG4. If those channels are ones that we actually want to record or set a Season Pass, we will be screwed with our HR10 units. You know it, I know it, DirecTV knows it.


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

mlobitz said:


> ...please explain to me why I should alpha test this thing???


Because after reading about it and it's current state, you went through tremendous lengths to get it. That alone would make me think that you wanted to. 

I don't blame you for doing what you're doing, but you did go through a lot to get the HR20.


----------



## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

stephenC said:


> One day, maybe in the year 2007 DirecTV will begin sending down from the heavens channels covering the nation of the USA that are encoded in MPEG4. If those channels are ones that we actually want to record or set a Season Pass, we will be screwed with our HR10 units. You know it, I know it, DirecTV knows it.


But you won't be screwed because you will be able to upgrade to the superior HR20.


----------



## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

stephenC said:


> One day, maybe in the year 2007 DirecTV will begin sending down from the heavens channels covering the nation of the USA that are encoded in MPEG4. If those channels are ones that we actually want to record or set a Season Pass, we will be screwed with our HR10 units. You know it, I know it, DirecTV knows it.


Yes, but if all you care about is your off-air HD locals, you'll be fine for quite some time, as well as STILL being able to record SD stuff. (& at least you can say you can store a lot of SD on an HD Tivo)

And regarding the HR20 (lack of) being able to record off-air HD - D* keeps saying "it'll be enabled in the future". Well, X-mas is coming in about a month - so WHAT? Until the damm thing IS actually up & WORKING, it doesn't exist - period! And since D* does NOT offer our locals in MPEG4, the HR20 is totally USELESS for recording HD network prog in our area.


----------



## dscott72 (Mar 30, 2006)

stephenC said:


> One day, maybe in the year 2007 DirecTV will begin sending down from the heavens channels covering the nation of the USA that are encoded in MPEG4. If those channels are ones that we actually want to record or set a Season Pass, we will be screwed with our HR10 units. You know it, I know it, DirecTV knows it.


They will have to really impress me to care. And if they do, I will think about getting a standalone HR20 and not worry so much about recording in HD. I like the HR10 mostly for the storage space. At least for right now since I work for the local cable company I get free HD from them and one of their POS DVR's. But sadly I think unless a small miracle happens I will eventually have to...gulp...get one of the HR20-700's.

Off topic sort of...I know for the HR10-250 in order to get HD signals I have to have an antenna. Is this the same for the HR20-700 or will they actually get the HD programming off the satelite?


----------



## Avenger (Mar 26, 2002)

dishrich said:


> And regarding the HR20 (lack of) being able to record off-air HD - D* keeps saying "it'll be enabled in the future". Well, X-mas is coming in about a month - so WHAT? Until the damm thing IS actually up & WORKING, it doesn't exist - period! And since D* does NOT offer our locals in MPEG4, the HR20 is totally USELESS for recording HD network prog in our area.


Hear, hear! Why DirecTV thinks I'd be interested in shelling out money for a product that objectively has an inferior feature set to the box I already have is a mystery to me, but evidently, the rocket-scientists there have decided that they expect me to do just that.

I record nearly all my hi-def programming OTA. It's nearly impervious to bad weather. It looks great - uncompressed. And I still have the SD locals over the dish in case I need them as a backup - or I am recording and archiving large numbers of serials (soap operas) for my wife -- and don't want to chew through hard drive space unnecessarily. I have the absolute best of all worlds now. I'm simply not interested in a machine that can't record HD OTA. Maybe I would have thought differently when my only DVR experience was with the T60. But now, with two HR10's and two hi-def TV's, I can't imagine surrendering the ability to record digital TV OTA. That's a deal-breaker for me.


----------



## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

dscott72 said:


> I know for the HR10-250 in order to get HD signals I have to have an antenna. Is this the same for the HR20-700


As I just mentioned, until D* enables the off-air tuner in it, you ain't getting ANYTHING off an antenna.



> or will they actually get the HD programming off the satelite?


Depends on IF your market is carried by D* - it also does NOT mean that D* WILL necessarily carry EVERY one of your locals in HD as well. (look at all the markets they have NOW that don't even have all of the big 4 in HD   ) 
As someone will probably mention, this is _supposed_ to be fixed when D* gets the other MPEG4 birds launched - but again, until your locals ARE actually launched, don't assume they WILL be.


----------



## stephenC (Apr 15, 2004)

dscott72 said:


> They will have to really impress me to care. And if they do, I will think about getting a standalone HR20 and not worry so much about recording in HD. I like the HR10 mostly for the storage space. At least for right now since I work for the local cable company I get free HD from them and one of their POS DVR's. But sadly I think unless a small miracle happens I will eventually have to...gulp...get one of the HR20-700's.
> 
> Off topic sort of...I know for the HR10-250 in order to get HD signals I have to have an antenna. Is this the same for the HR20-700 or will they actually get the HD programming off the satelite?


Agreed. But, I'm thinking that D* will convert HDNet and HDNet Movies to MPEG4 running at 1920x1080i full bandwidth as soon as the sats are ready next year. Will I trade my HR10 for a HR20? In a heartbeat.


----------



## gquiring (Dec 13, 2002)

This post is more interesting than the dozens of repeated audio dropout thread posts since 6.3. I am glad to see that the new DVR is doing well. Let's face it, we will be all moving in that direction in another year. D* is done with Tivo. 

Having used other DVR's I must admit I never understood some of these Tivo fans. From my view Tivo is good stuff but not that great.


----------



## Markman07 (Jul 18, 2001)

gquiring said:


> Let's face it, we will be all moving in that direction in another year. D* is done with Tivo.


With Turd Bird / Myspace Murdoch looking to sell and soon I can't say for sure which direction Directv is going! Would Directv stick with the product Murdoch owns? It could get very intersting in the next few years. Things turned pretty fast when he took over and who is to say things won't turn again just as fast when he sells?


----------



## sluciani (Apr 21, 2003)

gquiring said:


> Having used other DVR's I must admit I never understood some of these Tivo fans. From my view Tivo is good stuff but not that great.


Most of us who post here are probably technically advanced enough to quickly grasp and master a new DVR user interface, even it's not quite as intuitive or user friendly as the Tivo's UI. Retraining less technical spouses and children is the problem, at least in my household.

That being said, a couple of my high tech friends who just bought HD displays and migrated from HDVR2s to HR20's literally _despise _ the HR20 UI. They are very upset that they can't get D* to send them HR10's instead.

/steve


----------



## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

gquiring said:


> . I am glad to see that the new DVR is doing well.


From what I've read, it is_ far_ from "doing well," while D* is constantly sending new downloads to try and get rid of all the bugs. There are problems with basic functions, ie., missed and partial recordings.

It may be a while before the thing is ready for primetime.


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Sir_whinealot said:


> From what I've read, it is_ far_ from "doing well," while D* is constantly sending new downloads to try and get rid of all the bugs. There are problems with basic functions, ie., missed and partial recordings.
> 
> It may be a while before the thing is ready for primetime.


From what I've *experienced*, it's further along than the HR10-250 at introduction and does not miss recordings. I was skeptical and kept my HR10 as a backup for 2 months before selling. Some are experiencing what you have read, I can't discount that, but it is far from universal.

I don't think we should argue this here, but my personal experience differs from what you have read about other peoples experiences.

As a frame of reference, I bought my first 14 hour TiVo in Nov of 1999 and have had every permutation of Tivo since.


----------



## merlin803 (Dec 11, 2005)

Billy66 said:


> From what I've *experienced*, it's further along than the HR10-250 at introduction and does not miss recordings. I was skeptical and kept my HR10 as a backup for 2 months before selling. Some are experiencing what you have read, I can't discount that, but it is far from universal.
> 
> I don't think we should argue this here, but my personal experience differs from what you have read about other peoples experiences.
> 
> As a frame of reference, I bought my first 14 hour TiVo in Nov of 1999 and have had every permutation of Tivo since.


<Flame suit on> I have to agree, I was skeptical of the HR20 and expecting the worse and I have kept my DTivo just in case but after over a week with the HR20, I have not had any problems (except for the occasional audio hiccup on HD locals).

Now, I will keep my HTivo connected and use both for at least a few weeks just in case but so far, so good and I have found myself starting to use the HR20 as my primary receiver.

P.S. I have always loved the Dtivo and the only problem I have ever had with it is the 6.2 audio drop outs - which is what prompted me to even inquire about getting the HR20 and almost drove me away from D* completely. <Flame suit off>.


----------



## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

sluciani said:


> Most of us who post here are probably technically advanced enough to quickly grasp and master a new DVR user interface, even it's not quite as intuitive or user friendly as the Tivo's UI. Retraining less technical spouses and children is the problem, at least in my household.
> 
> That being said, a couple of my high tech friends who just bought HD displays and migrated from HDVR2s to HR20's literally _despise _ the HR20 UI. They are very upset that they can't get D* to send them HR10's instead.
> 
> /steve


I don't understand what people don't like about the GUI on the HR20. I find it to be very intuitive and even my wife who is the most non-technical person I know easily has figured it out. In fact there are things about the GUI that I like much better than the HR10. Especially the mini menu and the grouping of recorded shows.

That said I definately wouldn't reccomend that someone jump on this DVR now it still has bugs to work out and the OTA is not yet active. I personally moved to the HR20 precisely because I moved and could no longer get locals OTA and wanted to get them via Sat. So for me it makes sense and I have no need for recording OTA. If you currently can record your locals in HD via OTA I wouldn't upgrade until there is programming you can't get with the HR10 which won't happen until sometime in 2007.


----------



## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

Billy66 said:


> I don't think we should argue this here, but my personal experience differs from what you have read about other peoples experiences.


Well, as you say that's _your_ *experience,* I'm happy your unit isn't suffering some of the same maladies as many who are complaining on the other forum.

It seems that there are those who have no problems, while there are those who have a_ multitude_ of problems and have thrown (or are getting ready to) in the towel until the thing can consistantly record.

Even D* CSR's are quick to point out its' problematic ways (just call and ask), which would tell me that these missed/partial recordings (along with some other bugs ,<FF, channel banner>), are not isolated to a handful of users.


----------



## merlin803 (Dec 11, 2005)

Sir_whinealot said:


> Well, as you say that's _your_ *experience,* I'm happy your unit isn't suffering some of the same maladies as many who are complaining on the other forum.
> 
> It seems that there are those who have no problems, while there are those who have a_ multitude_ of problems and have thrown (or are getting ready to) in the towel until the thing can consistantly record.
> 
> Even D* CSR's are quick to point out its' problematic ways (just call and ask), which would tell me that these missed/partial recordings (along with some other bugs ,<FF, channel banner>), are not isolated to a handful of users.


Remember about the posts on the other forum though that it is like any other forum where the norm is to see the "I have a problem posts" because the happy people are not so inclined to post.

Now, if a new D* user came to this forum, what do you suppose they would think when the saw the 800+ posts about the audio drops on the Dtivo?

Don't get me wrong, like I said, I still have and use my Dtivo and the thing that pushed me into getting the HR20 was the audio drop outs and the realization that while I liked my Dtivo that *D could not tell me if/when the audio drops would be fixed.

While we may not like it - the most important factor is D* is supporting the HR20 and putting out weekly fixes (and enhancements) and how long did we have to wait for 6.2? And, how long before another patch to fix 6.2?


----------



## bwaldron (Mar 16, 2003)

merlin803 said:


> Remember about the posts on the other forum though that it is like any other forum where the norm is to see the "I have a problem posts" because the happy people are not so inclined to post.
> 
> Now, if a new D* user came to this forum, what do you suppose they would think when the saw the 800+ posts about the audio drops on the Dtivo?
> 
> ...


Problems are over-represented on forums, yes. But you can still get a feel for relatively widespread problems, even if by sheer numbers of reports. Yes, the audio drop problem with 6.3a is real, as can be determined by reading here. Conversely, if you read this forum for the many months preceding that, you'd see that the HR10 is quite problem-free (though slow in many respects) w/ the exception of the HDMI hardware issue early on.

It's pretty clear to me that the HR20 has issues with its software and possibly its manufacturing QC. It's also clear that MPEG4 has some issues to be resolved, at least in some DMAs. It appears that things are improving, and I hope they continue to.


----------



## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

gquiring said:


> This post is more interesting than the dozens of repeated audio dropout thread posts since 6.3. I am glad to see that the new DVR is doing well. Let's face it, we will be all moving in that direction in another year. D* is done with Tivo.


Speak for yourself. Losing TiVo will likely be the last straw in my growing dissatisfaction with DirecTV.


----------



## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

IMHO, the best thing DirecTV could do going forward is to have TiVo take on the software resposibility for the HR20 and R15 boxes. Of course, there is no chance of that happening right now, and little chance after Liberty Media takes over for Murdoch.


----------



## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

> I don't understand what people don't like about the GUI on the HR20. I find it to be very intuitive and even my wife who is the most non-technical person I know easily has figured it out. In fact there are things about the GUI that I like much better than the HR10. Especially the mini menu and the grouping of recorded shows.


Thank you, makes at least 2 of us. I like HR20 UI much better than TiVo. I recently moved to HD and for me HR10 was not even a choice because I can't get OTA and I never considered crippled S3 because I refuse to use last century technology to order PPV. HR20 is a very good unit with lot of features that TiVo never had and probably never will. It is not TiVo, but if you don't have a closed mind you will find out that few days of learning differences are well worth it.
And if you want to talk about bugs or problems with HR20, visit S3 forum first and pray to thank God that you are still with D*.


----------



## davsherm (Feb 23, 2003)

I think alot of folks have short memories also. I got my first HR10 early on when they first became available from CC. My first unit was replaced three times for hardware issues - one hdd, one for OTA issues, and one just died. The last replacement unit and second purchased unit have worked flawlessly, my only complaint is the overly sensitive OTA tuner, even on 6.3 (one uses HDMI). D* graciously gave me an upgrade to the HR20 ($99 for three dvrs and dish/multiswitch installed). I have not seen the issues with the HR20 that others have, but I started off with EF version of the software, so I did not see some of the real early versions of the software. I still have one HR10 connected side by side with the HR10, and so far I like the HR20 better. Now one big reason for this is because I am in the Boston DMA and get M4 channels, and do not have to deal with a flakey OTA signal. IMO Dtv should not have released this unit without OTA being enabled unless they could give folks M4 right away, or maybe not released it to folks who were not in a M4 DMA area. The dual buffer thing is not a big deal to me, but I watch one channel at a time, and I usually only watch news or sports live. As far as the interface, all I can say is it is different than Tivo, but it is not rocket science to figure out how to use it. I gave my dad a two minute tour, and he was using it right away. The thing I thought was a little non-intuitive was the SL tab to change the SL settings, but once I set the defaults I never even go back in there, it is 2 clicks for a SL (aka SP). Overall, I think the interface is "fresher", more modern than the HR10, which feels like the same old slow interface that was on my SatT60. All platforms have their problems, like many have mentioned, just check the S3 forum. My two HR10s will be on ebay real soon, I could care less about Tivo.


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Sir_whinealot said:


> Well, as you say that's _your_ *experience,* I'm happy your unit isn't suffering some of the same maladies as many who are complaining on the other forum.
> 
> It seems that there are those who have no problems, while there are those who have a_ multitude_ of problems and have thrown (or are getting ready to) in the towel until the thing can consistantly record.


Agreed. I try to be very clear that my reports come through only my own experience and along with my own tolerance (having adopted TiVo at software 1.2, the DTivo day one etc).

One of the biggest points of division in the other forum is between those that have virtually no problems (lucky me), and those that are having seemingly endless troubles.

I'm not telling anyone to jump ship. If you get your OTA locals, the advantages in programming availability are still months out. I moved for my MPEG4 locals and expected more problems than I had. After 2 months of backing everything up, but never needing the HR10, I sold it to someone who wants it while it still had value.

Sometimes while I was learning the UI, I would sit on the couch and miss the HR10 a little, then I would go up stairs and schedule a recording and remember some of the things I couldn't stand about it. "Please Wait...."

Feature sets aside for a moment, just the speed to do ANYTHING is meaningful to my needs.

But in the end, and this is TiVo's problem, it seems I chose to follow my program provider in spite of my love and loyalty to TiVo. I was going to accept, with fingers crossed, whatever feature set came along. In the end, the number that will follow their DVR Service Provider over their Programming Provider may not be enough.

I think the HR10 is a great unit. I loved it. When hacked with some of my favorites, it was meeting my needs....until mpeg4.


----------



## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

Well, _hopefully_ D* will have the bugs worked out by the time they shift all to MPEG4 and leave the HR10 with nothing but HD OTA....believe me, I have my fingers crossed that I'm still not reading "this thing is a POS!" on the other forum.

The track record of the R15 notwithstanding, I know D* engineers are working to this end, but until this happens, I remain skeptical (yes, yes...we know the R15 is a completely _different_ machine).

I know there's a good possibility too, that they may _never implement dual buffers _ which I realize is unimportant to some...but I find that incredibly short-sighted on the part of D* and it pisses me off. IMO it's a step backward.

That said, I'm not adverse to switching when and if the time comes....but if there are still problems I guess it's off to cable I go.


----------



## Titon (Oct 21, 2006)

All i can say is it's to bad that replaytv never ventured into the HD DVR side. I have one of these units and to this day it works flawlessly. Seems to me D* and it's engineers can't quite figure there own product out. Whether it's Tivo or D* it seems to me there are significant problems with either producer.

Quite frankly i find myself yearning for my Samsung HD reciever and the Replaytv recorder every day compared to what's currently available. Problem is of course the HD content and the ability to record it. I'm willing to sacrifice some in order to do this. I have the HR10-250 and will not switch to the new unit from D* until the OTA function is operational. The HR10-250 has many many flaws of it's own including the extremely slow guide and the slight hesitation when tuning to an HD channel but again why on god's green earth would anyone pay for a product that isn't fully functional? Whether they can get OTA or not simply having an option for that along with dual buffers is just astounding. Especially what this thing cost's. 

For what's available out there some of us are stuck with D*. But i grow weary of all of this and eventually other option's will have to be explored. Sadly there isn't many to choose from. My holdup on D* has always been the NFL Sunday Ticket but that is something i might have to sacrifice in the end. 

There has been many HD tuners produced by company's that seem to function quite good without all these annoying hiccups. Like i stated my old Samsung is still in service and works great. To bad there's not an option to have other company's make an HD DVR that is more reliable and functional. We can all thank D* for screwing everything up to begin with.


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Sir_whinealot said:


> I know there's a good possibility too, that they may _never implement dual buffers _ which I realize is unimportant to some...but I find that incredibly short-sighted on the part of D* and it pisses me off. IMO it's a step backward.


I think you're right and I don't know why. I use Dual Live Buffers infrequently, so it's not a deal breaker, but it is a puzzler. Why not give that feature? I don't understand what/who they are protecting by holding it back. (sorta like TiVo holding back free space indicator. Just doesn't make a lot of sense)

I dunno if cable will have better overall solutions for you or not when the time comes.

I am geeked up for OTA activation and the ability to record 3 things at once. I know it's vapor now, but very soon it will be a DVR first.


----------



## 1003 (Jul 14, 2000)

*Back when*
Cable required 'their' box and the industry shifted with TV tuners to handle the change. TiVo introduced revolutionary products that changed the way we watch TV. DirecTV allowed multiple receivers and we had a choice including TiVo. Choice is now whatever DirecTV offers or keeping legacy hardware that they really no longer want you to have...


----------



## mikeny (Dec 22, 2004)

Billy66 said:


> I am geeked up for OTA activation and the ability to record 3 things at once. I know it's vapor now, but very soon it will be a DVR first.


I am also psyched for OTA activation but Earl has posted several times that despite the what the manual says, it's a misprint and even when OTA is activated, it'll only record 2 channels at a time.


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Hey Mike, send me a link to that via PM. I must have missed that. Bummer.


----------



## Theebs (Jul 18, 2005)

I have a few questions. I have no bias towards anything and certainly dont work for any of these companies.

I bought a new d* hd dvr the 700s last week. I have been using it for a week and have no problems. I am in the DFW area and get all the locals over the satellite. 

The only complaint I have is that yesterdays cowboys bucs game recorded without problem, but during playback it will occasionally just drop the audio? I have to pause it then back it up for a second to get the audio aligned. Really annoying.

It hasnt missed any recordings however and I have no other problems with it. I have read that this is HD lite? Is this true. My hd has looked great but is it not the quality of say cable or dish network? Would my local channels look better through an OTA? They look great right now though, so anyone that could tell me would be great.

Like I said though I have had no problems. One last question, Is there a way for me to send the recordings via iee 1394 cable to my pc? I currently capture from my standard tivo to my pc through s-video and audio cables. I then edit and put games on Disc, I would like to keep the game high def and burn in 16x9 format, but if I capture in this manner I will kill the quality. I have read where many just send the file with firewire so is this possible on this unit?

any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

The "HD Lite" is not specific to the HR20...that is a term used to discuss the quality of the HD Package channels (Universal, Discovery, HD-Net, ect (possible HBO and SHO))..

The MPEG-4's resolution is not changed... hence the "HD Lite" doesn't apply to them, at least the way the internet blogs and websites are defining it.

There is still an argument about PQ with MPEG-4 vs OTA, but that is not the same as the discussion over HD-Lite.

As for if it would look better on OTA... depends on the area. On the H20's you have access to both OTA and MPEG-4... at least here in Chicago, there is not "that" much of a difference.

No. There is no way to send the contents of the HR20 digitally to a computer.
And right now there is no "cheap" method to send HD Outputs via Analog to a computer.

For a lot more discussion on the HR20 see www.dbstalk.com


----------



## Theebs (Jul 18, 2005)

Thank you very much for the response. I didnt think it was HD lite. I dont think there is a difference either in the quality of the local channels via D tv or OTA. My locals look great.

As for digital transfer, there is a way, not sure how this would downgrade the quality though. I currently run my standard tivo into a capture device with s-video to record all cowboys games then to dvd. 

To do this with a high def signal and keep it high def I am assuming using A mojo via component in would work? This is how production houses carry hi def signals for editing with mojos or similar and digibeta decks.

I will have an mojo in the near future and am just curious what anyone thinks about that and how it would degrade the original hd quality.


----------



## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Theebs said:


> ...
> As for digital transfer, there is a way, not sure how this would downgrade the quality though. I currently run my standard tivo into a capture device with s-video to record all cowboys games then to dvd.
> 
> To do this with a high def signal and keep it high def I am assuming using A mojo via component in would work? This is how production houses carry hi def signals for editing with mojos or similar and digibeta decks.
> ....


Actually that is "by-definition" an Analog Transfer.

Tha connection between your TiVo and the capture device is S-Video.
Which is an analog connection... your capture device is then taking it from the Analog Video/Audio signal, and converting it to the "digital" signal your computer looks at.

Pure "digital" would be able to pull the data file on the DVR, over a network or some other computer connection (firewire, usb, ect).... directly to the computer with no conversion.


----------



## Theebs (Jul 18, 2005)

ebonovic said:


> Actually that is "by-definition" an Analog Transfer.
> 
> Tha connection between your TiVo and the capture device is S-Video.
> Which is an analog connection... your capture device is then taking it from the Analog Video/Audio signal, and converting it to the "digital" signal your computer looks at.
> ...


I dont think that that is an analog transfer. The avid mojo is a high def capture device. It is used with the avid express pro software. I have seen it in use in a local production house. Many people use it to capture from a mini dv to stay online in editing situations or capture a high def signal.

I am not sure how this would work as I said, but with the component cables into the mojo this may work.


----------



## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Theebs said:


> I dont think that that is an analog transfer. The avid mojo is a high def capture device. It is used with the avid express pro software. I have seen it in use in a local production house. Many people use it to capture from a mini dv to stay online in editing situations or capture a high def signal.
> 
> I am not sure how this would work as I said, but with the component cables into the mojo this may work.


A mini-dv output, is not a analog capture. You are correct there.

But if you are going out via Component or composite. that is in turn, an analog signal running on those lines. (Component is not a digital output).

but we are talking symantics here....

Local Production houses can afford equipment and software, that most of us wouldn't even come close to understanding how to setup and use... let alone pay for..  I only wish I could get some of their rejects.


----------



## Theebs (Jul 18, 2005)

ebonovic said:


> A mini-dv output, is not a analog capture. You are correct there.
> 
> But if you are going out via Component or composite. that is in turn, an analog signal running on those lines. (Component is not a digital output).
> 
> ...


.

Components are a cable able to carry a digital signal correct?

The avid express pro software and mojo can work with HD files, they make them an express file then during rendering/authoring they are sent to their final codec.

Anyway, the avid mojo is able to recieve digital signals from firewire and I thought component also but that maybe broken into analog like you stated..bummer.

Production houses mostly use avid symphony or higher. The production house I have been in and out of has a couple of these, they have dual 3.6 p4's and it takes forever to render video in hd. All hd stuff is handled I belive with digibeta decks and the cameras themselves.

So i guess mojo is not able to either unless The component in is digitial but I think that becomes analog.

It would be nice if I could save football games to disk in HD, but then again the burners are ridiculously priced anyway!!!


----------



## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

Content providers are working ever-harder to prevent this. Unfortunately. The HR10-250 may be the last box that one can do-something-we're-not-allowed-to-talk-about from digitally.

Back to the HR20: no OTA = dealbreaker for me. As frustrated as I am getting with 6.3a, I have no intention of giving up all of my OTA channels. Here in the Chicago area, D* only offers the big 4 via the bird...but as Earl well knows, there are oodles and boodles of OTA digital channels available. I could lose some, but not WGN (Cubs), and not WWME (26.2) -- even though it's not HD, it's still 720x480 w/dolby audio, and the remastered Trek looks much better there than it does on the SD satellite feed. (And my wife likes PBS Create on 11.3, and there's 26.1 which often has Cubs games, and...)


----------



## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

Bionic_peon said:


> I've recorded about 8 programs (some HD some SD) and they all played back in their entirety without issues.


WOW! That is totally freaking amazing! 8 whole recordings without an issue!  When you've had 800 go without an issue please post back. I once sat in a Yugo and it didn't fall apart. That must mean it's a reliable car.


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

kbohip said:


> WOW! That is totally freaking amazing! 8 whole recordings without an issue!  When you've had 800 go without an issue please post back.


Hey fanboy, it's also 100%, why don't *you* post back when your DVR records with 100% reliability? 

He had the thing for like a day and you need to make sarcastic comments about his sample size?

Seems like you just posted to be a jerk, he was giving his initial impressions, that's all.


----------



## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

Billy66 said:


> Hey fanboy, it's also 100%, why don't *you* post back when your DVR records with 100% reliability?
> 
> He had the thing for like a day and you need to make sarcastic comments about his sample size?
> 
> Seems like you just posted to be a jerk, he was giving his initial impressions, that's all.


If you're stupid enough (and apparently you are) to believe that a machine is reliable after 8 whole recordings then you're probably also stupid enough to be posting on a Tivo site about how wonderful the POS HR20 is. What's the old saying? "Misery loves company"


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

kbohip said:


> If you're stupid enough (and apparently you are) to believe that a machine is reliable after 8 whole recordings then you're probably also stupid enough to be posting on a Tivo site about how wonderful the POS HR20 is. What's the old saying? "Misery loves company"


Real nice, personal insults.

His post was that it "Wasn't so bad", not that it's wonderful, and his sample size is what it is.

Seriously, just use it, or try it, or go to a friend's house before you declare it a POS. Doing so without it is just ignorant. If you want to say, "I have no need or desire to look around.", that's fine, but it doesn't give you any authority to say it's a POS. You simply don't know.

Call me stupid to my face sometime toughguy, in that moment, it won't be your choice of DVR that has you scared.


----------



## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

Billy66 said:


> Real nice, personal insults.
> 
> His post was that it "Wasn't so bad", not that it's wonderful, and his sample size is what it is.
> 
> ...


Lol, whatever scary anonymous internet man.  The OP's sample size was completely useless. His coming onto a Tivo forum after using an HR20 for one whole day to say how great it was is nothing more than a flame imo. If he likes it I'm very happy for him, but please don't pretend it's trouble free because he's had it for a day and it's recorded 8 shows without a problem.

Anyway, about the HR20, I'll think about getting one when I see the software updates slowing down a little more and I see that there are far fewer people having problems with it. So far from a lot of the threads I've seen on other forums it's plagued with many issues. I have no desire to drop my much more reliable (even after the 6.3a update) HR10 for a machine that does less and has a lot more problems. I certainly don't need to use it to know that.

I'm certainly no Tivo fanboy but if that's what you want to think go right ahead. I'm after a reliable dvr that records my shows when I want them. The HR20 doesn't do that. Neither do the cable co. dvr's. Right now Tivo is the best in reliability and the only people who will argue that are kidding themselves. Having the Tivo interface is not a big deal to me and there are things I don't like about it that are better on the HR20 such as a free space indicator and 90 minute buffer. These aren't as important as reliability though.


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Took you long enough to make a rational statement  , glad we were able to get around to it and sorry if I missed it all in your sarcasm.

He wasn't saying that it was great. It seemed to me that he was surprised that it didn't suck. I think maybe you or others would be too. Maybe not. 

You surely haven't heard me say that I trust my HR20 more than my TiVo for reliability. Some of that comes from exactly what the HR20 does not have. Longevity.

I don't blame you your decision, I think it's a good one. I just think you could relax a little bit about something that you really don't know much about. I mean, I don't think the OP thought that his 8 shows were scientifically significant. I thought you were piling on.

I'm tougher off the internet because I never fear having to come back and see it in all it's majesty. On here, it's record forever. I could probably take you, but I've thought that and been wrong before. I think I'll use your method this time and just believe it before I try it.


----------



## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

Along with the lack of dual buffers, it's threads like this from the other forum:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=71004

that are causing people to hesitate making a change. My personal HR20 experience has not been a positive one thus far, and unless that changes anytime soon I'll keep my family of HR10/250's as my main units.


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Lots of threads like that here too, especially since 6.3, but I've never once said it's a slam dunk or that anyone *should* switch. I'm trying to say, it's not nearly as bad as it's portrayed here. I didn't believe in it. I kept the HR10 for 2 months backing everything up. Once I needed it. I was nervous and almost expected I would bring the HR10 back down. Since the second to the last update, I've been comfortable with the improvements to the trick plays that I was able to part with it.

During that transition for me was a romantic period I would have about the HR10 when the HR20 was being flaky or I hadn't yet learned to maneuver as easily. Then I would go upstairs and program a recording, or try to delete several things and i started to appreciate some other things the HR20 has that the HR10 does not.

That's just me. I've never suggested to anyone that they switch or that they are in any way making a bad decision by not switching.

The HR20 is not the bogeyman. It's a good DVR. It's getting better at a very high rate. I'm still optimistic about it's long term chances.


----------



## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Sir_whinealot said:


> Along with the lack of dual buffers, it's threads like this from the other forum:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=71004
> 
> that are causing people to hesitate making a change. My personal HR20 experience has not been a positive one thus far, and unless that changes anytime soon I'll keep my family of HR10/250's as my main units.


And as you go through that thread, and the others just like it...
You'll find that there are plenty of people that are not having issues... who love the unit.

And on the flip, threads that are started "praising" the unit, people chime in that are having issues.

Why? Both are happing... There are people that are having issues, then there are people that are not.

You find the same thing here in this forum... "the HR10 sucks for me", "great for me." Few forums up about the Tivo Series 3, ect...

So all that link thread really provides, is more information for you as the consumer to make your choice.... Do you want the HR20 in the state that it is, given the information. Or do you want to wait for a while.


----------



## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

Billy66 said:


> Took you long enough to make a rational statement  , glad we were able to get around to it and sorry if I missed it all in your sarcasm.
> 
> He wasn't saying that it was great. It seemed to me that he was surprised that it didn't suck. I think maybe you or others would be too. Maybe not.
> 
> ...


Lol, thats what I get for getting on this forum at work. I don't reply back very fast. Let's just leave it at this, you like your HR20 and I'm glad you do, as I'm sure I'll have one someday anyway. I just hope they work out the bugs in the thing.

Looking back at my post towards you it does look like I called you stupid. That was stupid of me, as I know from your posts that you're far from stupid. Let's face it, we're just talking about dvr's here and they're not worth the battle of words.


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

No doubt kbohip. We are surely on the same side.


----------



## bwaldron (Mar 16, 2003)

Billy66 said:


> No doubt kbohip. We are surely on the same side.


I think we're all pretty much on the same side, really. We want content, reliable programming, a solid GUI, and extra features where possible. For the lowest cost.


----------



## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

cheer said:


> I could lose some, but not WGN (Cubs),


FYI... Chicago WGN (The CW) was just added to the MPEG-4 lineup... today


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

bwaldron said:


> I think we're all pretty much on the same side, really. We want content, reliable programming, a solid GUI, and extra features where possible. For the lowest cost.


Yep, as a group though we're still stuck on the definition of those things.


----------



## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

ebonovic said:


> And as you go through that thread, and the others just like it...
> You'll find that there are plenty of people that are not having issues... who love the unit.
> 
> And on the flip, threads that are started "praising" the unit, people chime in that are having issues.
> ...


Can't disagree...and I can put up with bugs and subtle nuances; I cannot tolerate missed recordings though, and this seems to be a _somewhat_ consistant theme.

Miss one episode of Heroes, Prison Break or DH at my house....and my side of the bed gets awful lonely (yes, I'm exaggerating  ).

I don't think you can honestly state that the unit is 100% ready for prime-time and Joe Consumer...I've been on the line with D* support _several _ times, and even _they_ have said as much; if everything was a-ok, they wouldn't need to keep trying these downloads.

If the thing had its' flaws and didn't feck up recordings, I'd be okay with it....I'll still be unhappy about the (lack of) dual b's ...but I'll at least be satisfied.

I'd love to be singing its' praises inside of 3 months, but I will remain skeptical until it becomes consistant with DVR 101: scheduled recordings.

An opinion.


----------

