# Game of Thrones - "Garden of Bones" - s02e04 - 4/22/12



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Probably the best opening sequence of any show ever. Qarth was new or was that in the last one? Looks like Dany and her dragons found a fabulous place to regroup.

Loved seeing Robb's wolf again. I cannot remember what the name is though. Someone help me out. I think little Robbie has a crush. 

I just love Tyrion so much "that was a threat, see the difference?" and then Bronn "there's no cure for being a c unt" heeee
I'm so glad he sent poor Ned's head back to his family. And the way he saw right through Lancel and knocked him right down to size. Now he has himself a little spy. Brilliant! He continues to be the most awesome person on my screen. 

Argh. Joffrey needs to die right now. What a little prick. I need a weekly slap if he's to appear in the episode.

Someone tell me why I like Baelish so much. He's such a snake. Lying out his arse about Arya. Speaking of... Where the hell is Arya and Gendry? Some kind of prison that just kills them off one by one via rat torture?? That was some nastiness. Ugh. I think I read about something like that in a Stephen King book once. Gendry saved by the bell! Ha, Tywin took one look at her and knew she was a girl.

Renly and Stannis having their little stand off was as expected. Neither of them are going to back down. I'm surprised either bothered. So that entire cave birthing thing with Melisandre? Creeeeepy. What in the hell was that thing?? Yikes.


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## 6079 Smith W (Oct 2, 2000)

photoshopgrl said:


> Loved seeing Robb's wolf again. I cannot remember what the name is though. Someone help me out. I think little Robbie has a crush.


Robb -> Grey Wind
Arya -> Nymeria
Bran -> Summer
Sansa -> Lady
Rickon -> Shaggydog
Jon Snow -> Ghost



> Where the hell is Arya and Gendry? Some kind of prison that just kills them off one by one via rat torture??


They are in Harrenhall


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## chronatog7 (Aug 26, 2004)

Qarth is new in the opening. I love when they opened the city gates. 

Robb's wolf is called Grey Wind. 

Gendry is at Harrenhall. Is an old castle which was shown for the first time as well in the intro. 

Overall, best episode of the season.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

I was confused at the end. Was the onion knight charged with taking the red priestess to the island to give birth to something? The way the conversation went I thought Stanis was asking him to kill her.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Oh no. He took her to the island so she could do her task. Rather compelling place to end the episode!


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Gunnyman said:


> I was confused at the end. Was the onion knight charged with taking the red priestess to the island to give birth to something? The way the conversation went I thought Stanis was asking him to kill her.


From their conversation, I thought he took her to shore to defeat Renly's army with her magic. Still possible that I'm right!

I love it when new places are shown during the opening credits. I looked for any kind of sigil on the 2 new places but found none (no surprise about Quarth, since it's on the other side of the sea).


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

How good a swordsman can he be? He's been stabbing Renly for years, and Renly ain't dead.


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## steverm2 (May 10, 2005)

When the gates of qarth opened I thought"wow,finally somewhere thats bright and inviting".I dont think it will end up being that way.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

6079 Smith W said:


> Robb -> Grey Wind
> Arya -> Nymeria
> Bran -> Summer
> Sansa -> Lady
> ...


Thanks for the info. I remembered only Lady and Ghost. And Harrenhall was the other new location I didn't know what it was in the opening. That makes sense. This place is owned by the Lanisters, is that right?



Anubys said:


> I love it when new places are shown during the opening credits. I looked for any kind of sigil on the 2 new places but found none (no surprise about *Quarth*, since it's on the other side of the sea).


Qarth as the 13 corrected Dany. 



JETarpon said:


> How good a swordsman can he be? He's been stabbing Renly for years, and Renly ain't dead.


LOL I forgot about that line. So everyone knows about it. Didn't realize that until that moment.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

The first line of the EW recap sums it up for me.

"I love this season, but I'm having a hard time following it"

New locations, new people, remembering how all characters are related. It takes me an extra half hour to watch this show between rewinding, and turning CC on and off to catch what people are saying. Still love it after I figure everything out. Then I watch the EW recap to get the names of new characters or locations.

I was burning through some other shows on the DVR including "Are You There, Chelsea" and happened to watch this one right before I watched Game of Thrones which mentions Peter Dinklage:


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## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

photoshopgrl said:


> Thanks for the info. I remembered only Lady and Ghost. And Harrenhall was the other new location I didn't know what it was in the opening. That makes sense. This place is owned by the Lanisters, is that right?


Harrenhal is the castle that was granted to Janos Slynt by Cersei last season, but then Tyrion took it away from him. Tyrion also just dangled it to Littlefinger last episode.

It was destroyed by Dragonfire by the Targaryens a long time ago, which is why it looks so black and terrible.

I believe it is something like 3x the size of Winterfell.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Ereth said:


> Oh no. He took her to the island so she could do her task. Rather compelling place to end the episode!


I had a hard time with the dialogue in that scene and I can watch BBC shows without captions 
Thanks.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Love this review
http://www.tv.com/news/game-of-thrones-congratulations-its-a-whatever-that-is-28450/
A couple of the better parts:


> Later, Tyrion continued to turn King's Landing into Tyrion's Landing, blackmailing pretty boy Lancel Lannister with his knowledge that Lancel was lancing Cersei. You know Cersei is twisted when having sex with her cousin is the least sexually deviant thing she's doing. Gross! If you're keeping score of Tyrion's actions at home, that's one ousted head of the City Guard in Janos Slynt, one fired Grand Maester and undug mole for Cersei in Pycelle, and one man on the inside in Lancel. Tyrion 3, everyone else 0.


and


> Melisandre gives birth to the Smoke Monster from _Lost_


Ha!


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Joffrey is a tough man with his crossbow. I really hope then when he dies (he's gonna die, right....please let him die), it's going by crossbow.

Stannis - Call Maury. That baby is black. You are NOT the father  Not sure what to make of Melisandre's "baby". I was doubting the extent of her powers before, but not anymore.

Arya kept reciting names. I heard "Cersei" and "The Mountain" a few times, as well as a few others I don't recall right now. What was she doing? Praying for their deaths? Getting mentally ready to start dropping names if she got picked? Speaking of which, oooh, that's a pretty nasty way to kill someone.

Re: the black member of the 13, did I hear him correctly? Did he suggest that he was Dothraki?


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## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

LordKronos said:


> Joffrey is a tough man with his crossbow. I really hope then when he dies (he's gonna die, right....please let him die), it's going by crossbow.
> 
> Stannis - Call Maury. That baby is black. You are NOT the father  Not sure what to make of Melisandre's "baby". I was doubting the extent of her powers before, but not anymore.
> 
> ...


Arya's list was included Joffrey, Cersei, and Hound, then she added the Mountain and Polliver during the torture scenes. I would call it a prayer, yes.

Xaro Xhoan Daxos said he was from the Summer Isles, which is south of Westeros.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

LordKronos said:


> Stannis - Call Maury. That baby is black. You are NOT the father


Okay that was damn funny. I just alarmed those around me with my laughter.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> Love this review
> http://www.tv.com/news/game-of-thrones-congratulations-its-a-whatever-that-is-28450/


That review mentions that there have been several things changed from the book this season. The only one I recall reading about so far was in episode 1


Spoiler



the show had Joffery order the bastards killed, not Cersei



What other things have changed? Please answer in spoiler tags for the sake of others.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

I'll bet every recap equates the smoke baby to LOST. EW did too.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> Re: the black member of the 13, did I hear him correctly? Did he suggest that he was Dothraki?


No, he said he was a savage like the Dothraki (he's from the Summer Isles, whatever those are), and they let HIM in the city.

And now he runs the place, which might not be a very comforting precedent... 


fmowry said:


> I'll bet every recap equates the smoke baby to LOST. EW did too.


As long as they don't get Titus Welliver to play the baby, they should be OK...


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

billypritchard said:


> Xaro Xhoan Daxos said he was from the Summer Isles, which is south of Westeros.


OK, I didn't catch that. I thought he said something like "a few Dothraki won't destroy the city....I didn't", which I took to mean he was Dothraki.


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## Demandred (Mar 6, 2001)

I took Arya's list of people to be the list of people she will be getting revenge on.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Gunnyman said:


> I had a hard time with the dialogue in that scene and I can watch BBC shows without captions
> Thanks.


They were talking of things we haven't heard before, but were talking of them rather familiarly so they were somewhat obscure. Stannis has a hard time doing things that aren't straightforward, and asking a man to be a smuggler, a man who had the last knuckles of his fingers cut off by Stannis for being a smuggler in the first place, was hard for him. So he kind of talked around it.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Last week, Yoren told Arya the story of how his brother was killed by a boy named Willem and that every night he would go to sleep saying his name.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

LordKronos said:


> Arya kept reciting names. I heard "Cersei" and "The Mountain" a few times, as well as a few others I don't recall right now. What was she doing? Praying for their deaths? Getting mentally ready to start dropping names if she got picked? ...





billypritchard said:


> Arya's list was included Joffrey, Cersei, and Hound, then she added the Mountain and Polliver during the torture scenes. I would call it a prayer, yes.


Arya is memorizing and vowing her hit list. She'll go a tear once she gets Needle back.



LordKronos said:


> Stannis - Call Maury. That baby is black. You are NOT the father  Not sure what to make of Melisandre's "baby". I was doubting the extent of her powers before, but not anymore.





Gunnyman said:


> I was confused at the end. Was the onion knight charged with taking the red priestess to the island to give birth to something? The way the conversation went I thought Stanis was asking him to kill her.





Anubys said:


> From their conversation, I thought he took her to shore to defeat Renly's army with her magic. Still possible that I'm right!
> ...





Ereth said:


> Oh no. He took her to the island so she could do her task. Rather compelling place to end the episode!


Maybe "Stannis's son and heir" had to be born on Baratheon lands?

The urgency is so she can carry out "The night is dark and full of terrors" before the battle with Renley's army. I was looking for her to make some real world sabotage.

I might lose patience with this thing if there's too much more paranormal crap, but I dunno why I've been OK with witches and spells; zombies; intelligent, loyal Direwolves; White Walkers; and Dragons up to now.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cherry ghost said:


> Last week, Yoren told Arya the story of how his brother was killed by a boy named Willem and that every night he would go to sleep saying his name.


Arya's list is already growing...at this rate, she's gonna have a busy life! 


netringer said:


> Maybe "Stannis's son and heir" had to be born on Baratheon lands?


Smoky wouldn't be his "son and heir"; she's not his wife. At best it would be a bastard, but I doubt, given its nature, it would rank even that high. I think it would be treated kind of like Jon Snow is, only as if Jon Snow were an evil demon spawn. 


netringer said:


> I might lose patience with this thing if there's too much more paranormal crap, but I dunno why I've been OK with zombies, Direwolves, White Walkers and Dragons up to now.


It is kind of amusing when we try to apply logic to the point at which shows like this break our suspension of disbelief...


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## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

A couple of points: 
I'm pretty sure that after each name on her list Arya was saying something like "give them pain", so yeah, it was a kind of prayer (sort of the opposite of "God bless Mommy and Daddy")

I also figured that the discussion between the Onion Knight and Stannis was to sneak Melisandre "behind the lines" of Renly's army to set some sort of trap or counter attack 

LordKronos: "Call Maury!" D

I'm glad we now know which "Stag banner" goes with which Baratheon

Tyrion -- Smartest man in the castle

Cersei -- my god lady, can't you keep it zipped!

If Harrenhall is 3 times the size of Winterfell and its prison cells are overflowing who the heck are the Lannisters holding there?

Just when you think that you know where the characters are going, they get spun in another direction. This is why I'm thinking that Qarth isn't going to be all sunshine and fluffy dragons for Danerys


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

photoshopgrl said:


> Qarth as the 13 corrected Dany.


I should have known someone here would notice 

I was thinking about how smart Sansa is becoming and how Aryia would not have lasted a week had she not been able to get away.


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Smoky wouldn't be his "son and heir"; she's not his wife. At best it would be a bastard, but I doubt, given its nature, it would rank even that high. I think it would be treated kind of like Jon Snow is, only as if Jon Snow were an evil demon spawn.


Then why did Stannis make such a big deal about naming Renly Heir "until such time a son is born" *pan to evil red lady*


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

DavidTigerFan said:


> Then why did Stannis make such a big deal about naming Renly Heir "until such time a son is born" *pan to evil red lady*


If Stannis makes red on red his queen, the vapor kid will retroactively no longer be a bastard?


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Let's just hope no one who has seen Arya sees her as a servant to Tywin. What nice little gift that would be for him.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

mwhip said:


> Let's just hope no one who has seen Arya sees her as a servant to Tywin. What nice little gift that would be for him.


You gotta figure that Tywin is going to figure it out. He already pegged her as a girl and being from the North.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

tiassa said:


> A couple of points:
> I'm pretty sure that after each name on her list Arya was saying something like "give them pain", so yeah, it was a kind of prayer (sort of the opposite of "God bless Mommy and Daddy")


"Ilyn Payne", the man who beheaded her father.


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## Barmat (Jun 1, 2001)

netringer said:


> You gotta figure that Tywin is going to figure it out. He alreayy pegged her as a girl and being from the North.


I think he already knows who she is. I think he put it together as soon as he questioned "Why would you dress as a boy?" and she tried to cover by saying it was safer.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

netringer said:


> If Stannis makes red on red his queen, the vapor kid will retroactively no longer be a bastard?


In our world, he would have to marry her before the kid was born. Otherwise, his trying to present him as a legitimate heir would start wars.

Well, _more _wars. 


Barmat said:


> I think he already knows who she is. I think he put it together as soon as he questioned "Why would you dress as a boy?" and she tried to cover by saying it was safer.


Not really a cover...she was telling the truth.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Barmat said:


> I think he already knows who she is. I think he put it together as soon as he questioned "Why would you dress as a boy?" and she tried to cover by saying it was safer.


I don't think so. He's never seen her in his life; why would he know who she is?


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

Great episode. Some of the stuff that I expected to happen by episode 2 is finally happening. 

My girlfriend hated it because of all the torture scenes. I expected it and that stuff doesn't bother me so much (although the rat torture seems pretty gross).

It's really quite interesting to see the non-readers reactions and thoughts on things here, and also the confusion about where people are. I think they should have some little cut scenes on the map so people can be like, "Ohhh, they are at Harrenhal, a new place to us."

I agree that the show is hard to follow for someone who doesn't know the story. My girlfriend watches with me and hasn't read the books and she starts asking questions right at the beginning of a scene. I have to tell her to hold off because sometimes a scene is such that I don't know what's happening or what exactly they are building up to. The opening scene with Robb's direwolf is a good example. That's just a great scene that's written in about a non-specific battle to explain that Grey Wind is on a tear. But my girlfriend's instinct is to say, "who's that? have we seen them before?" Which I can't really blame her. Also the Harrenhal scenes she was like, have they been there before?

Others have explained Harrenhal a bit but I'll add a bit more backstory non-spoilers and hopefully it will help. Basically it's a castle that was built much too large which makes it nay impossible to hold and defend. Thus, over the years Lords have trouble holding on to it and it tends to exchange hands a lot. Not to mention the disrepair it is obviously in. We've already seen it offered up to Janos Slynt, taken away as he was sent to the wall and then offered up again to Littlefinger. The Lannisters don't own it but occupy it, it's lands are technically under the Riverlands so it owe fealty to Riverrun by rights (home of the Tullys, Catelyn Starks' family).
But since Lannister men occupy it they'll give it to whoever it seems valuable to.

Oh, and to whoever said "if it's three times the size of Winterfell, why are the cells overflowing?" Just because it's large, doesn't mean it has enough proper "cells" nor does it have enough proper inhabitable space. Much of it is in disrepair, has been abandoned for years or was damaged by those pesky dragons.  They say the tops of the towers have gone unused in years and are infested with bats.

Hope that helps.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

fmowry said:


> I'll bet every recap equates the smoke baby to LOST. EW did too.


I didn't even think of Lost, my only thoughts were those goofy scenes where someone pretending to be Santa Claus comes down the chimney and a big poof comes out the front of the fireplace.

Oh man, I'm glad my wife had all our kids BEFORE I saw this. I'd never go into the delivery room again.

Greg


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

audioscience said:


> ...
> Others have explained Harrenhal a bit but I'll add a bit more backstory non-spoilers and hopefully it will help. Basically it's a castle that was built much too large which makes it nay impossible to hold and defend. Thus, over the years Lords have trouble holding on to it and it tends to exchange hands a lot. Not to mention the disrepair it is obviously in. We've already seen it offered up to Janos Slynt, taken away as he was sent to the wall and then offered up again to Littlefinger. The Lannisters don't own it but occupy it, it's lands are technically under the Riverlands so it owe fealty to Riverrun by rights (home of the Tullys, Catelyn Starks' family).
> But since Lannister men occupy it they'll give it to whoever it seems valuable to.
> 
> ...


And the stone was melted by the Targaryan dragons!

Isn't Queen Margarette(? Renly's beard) from the Tully family, same as Catlyn?


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Margaery is a Tyrell. Loras Tyrell's sister.


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

are the dragons dead?


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

The old ones are. The new ones aren't.


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

netringer said:


> And the stone was melted by the Targaryan dragons!
> 
> Isn't Queen Margarette(? Renly's beard) from the Tully family, same as Catlyn?





JETarpon said:


> Margaery is a Tyrell. Loras Tyrell's sister.


Yes. And the Tyrells are from Highgarden, south of King's Landing and Storm's End. That's where Renly gets his 100,000 men.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

audioscience said:


> I think they should have some little cut scenes on the map so people can be like, "Ohhh, they are at Harrenhal, a new place to us."


I didn't think it was that difficult. Maybe other people skip or don't pay attention to the opening credits, but I watch it religiously and rewind if I miss something. This week I saw 2 new places: Harrenhal and Qarth. Just seeing those location in the credits was all I needed to figure it out.

The only location I wasn't clear about was the opening battle, though I suspect that was intentionally vague. And I forget where Renley is. I think that was in the credits last week. Looking at the map online, I think that was Storms End?

On another topic, does anyone else have trouble seeing all the dark scenes in this show? I've never had another show where the night scenes were so difficult to see any detail.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

JETarpon said:


> The old ones are. The new ones aren't.


Which makes no sense given that they are newborn and have not eaten in weeks!

I was disappointed in the opening credits as the 2 new places didn't rise up from the map like the other places. Any idea why it was done? is it because it's not one of the kingdoms? (but the Dothkhari isn't a kingdom and it rose...there I go again, arguing with myself!).


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

It was odd that Harrenhall wasn't animated in the opening credits.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

LordKronos said:


> I didn't think it was that difficult. Maybe other people skip or don't pay attention to the opening credits, but I watch it religiously and rewind if I miss something. This week I saw 2 new places: Harrenhal and Qarth. Just seeing those location in the credits was all I needed to figure it out.



I pay more than close attention. I just didn't realize the new place was the same as we were seeing at that moment. By the time the show was over and I was typing stuff up there was so much to remember and I was rushed to get to bed.


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## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

heySkippy said:


> It was odd that Harrenhall wasn't animated in the opening credits.


Qarth definitely did the steam-punk thing.

Harrenhal I didn't notice really. Maybe they were indicating it's status as a ruined place?


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

billypritchard said:


> Qarth definitely did the steam-punk thing.
> 
> Harrenhal I didn't notice really. Maybe they were indicating it's status as a ruined place?


The dragons melted the gears, and now it's stuck open.


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

LordKronos said:


> That review mentions that there have been several things changed from the book this season. The only one I recall reading about so far was in episode 1
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Westeros.org has really nice comparisons for the episodes.

Here's this weeks:

http://www.westeros.org/GoT/Episodes/Entry/Garden_of_Bones/Book_Spoilers/#Book_to_Screen


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

Aniketos said:


> Westeros.org has really nice comparisons for the episodes.
> 
> Here's this weeks:
> 
> http://www.westeros.org/GoT/Episodes/Entry/Garden_of_Bones/Book_Spoilers/#Book_to_Screen


Nice! Thanks for that. It makes me feel good to cross-reference my memory with the actual events in the book. Certain scenes are made up to compress time and events and I'm sometimes not certain if they are events that happened in the book or mere suggestions in the book that get turned into cinematic plot devices.

I'm glad to see my memory is pretty good on most points.


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## Flop (Dec 2, 2005)

LordKronos said:


> Joffrey is a tough man with his crossbow. I really hope then when he dies (he's gonna die, right....please let him die), it's going by crossbow.





Spoiler



Oh someone (if they follow the books) eventually dies from a crossbow in a very... interesting... way. Can't remember exactly which book it was in though, so might not be this season.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

Joffrey looked composited in during the spanking scene. I guess Gleeson is under-age.

--Carlos V.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> In our world, he would have to marry her before the kid was born. Otherwise, his trying to present him as a legitimate heir would start war


In either world his already having a wife would slow things down too. I don't remember hearing about divorce in Westeros....

Who was the guy who was discussing what to do with all the prisoners with Rob? I think he mentioned flaying as a torture technique. I have read the books and still can't catch all the names, or maybe because I know who I'm looking for I'm jumping to conclusions. I also missed that it was Tywin who took over at Harrenhaul--again looking for someone else.....


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## markb (Jul 24, 2002)

The HBO summaries are great for figuring out names.

http://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones#/game-of-thrones/episodes/2/14-garden-of-bones/synopsis.html


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Unbeliever said:


> Joffrey looked composited in during the spanking scene. I guess Gleeson is under-age.
> 
> --Carlos V.


Web consensus is that he is 19


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Unbeliever said:


> Joffrey looked composited in during the spanking scene. I guess Gleeson is under-age.
> 
> --Carlos V.


Wild. I wonder if his parents supervise.

The over 17(18?) porn law should only apply if it was him having the sex, but maybe this was close enough.


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

stellie93 said:


> In either world his already having a wife would slow things down too. I don't remember hearing about divorce in Westeros....
> 
> Who was the guy who was discussing what to do with all the prisoners with Rob? I think he mentioned flaying as a torture technique. I have read the books and still can't catch all the names, or maybe because I know who I'm looking for I'm jumping to conclusions. I also missed that it was Tywin who took over at Harrenhaul--again looking for someone else.....


I'm pretty sure he was talking to Roose Bolton. The Boltons are pretty into flaying.


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## Archangel00 (Aug 25, 2006)

6079 Smith W said:


> Bran -> Summer


Oh dear where are all the spoiler freaks?  Don't think we're at the point that Bran has actually named his wolf yet are we? 



Rob Helmerichs said:


> Arya's list is already growing...at this rate, she's gonna have a busy life!


Yes she is.

Pretty disappointed in the whole whopping 2 of seconds Robb attacking as Grey Wind.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Archangel00 said:


> Oh dear where are all the spoiler freaks?  Don't think we're at the point that Bran has actually named his wolf yet are we?


Well I'm a spoiler freak and it doesn't bother me to have this info ahead of time. Hope it doesn't anyone else. I just assumed I had forgotten.


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

Archangel00 said:


> Oh dear where are all the spoiler freaks?  Don't think we're at the point that Bran has actually named his wolf yet are we?


Bran names Summer in the first book after he wakes up from his coma...


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## Archangel00 (Aug 25, 2006)

LOL, I really don't think revealing his name is even remotely a big deal, but I purposely did not mention him by name in last weeks thread, knowing how sensitive(often ridiculously so) all the spoiler hall monitors are around here, and couldn't pass up the chance to say so in not so many words. Though now I have said it in so many words  LOL



Aniketos said:


> Bran names Summer in the first book after he wakes up from his coma...


Ah ok then. Haven't actually read the books, only a couple of websites about them and what I skimmed over on them wasn't very clear exactly when he was first named only that it was later on in relation to the others. Don't recall them referring to him by name in the series either. Have they yet?


----------



## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

Aniketos said:


> Bran names Summer in the first book after he wakes up from his coma...


Agreed. All the Direwolves have been named. I'm not sure how dog names would be consider spoilers anyhow? 

I think even in one of the short scenes Rickon has he calls Shaggydog by his name - when he's with Osha in the crypt.


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Archangel00 said:


> Pretty disappointed in the whole whopping 2 of seconds Robb attacking as Grey Wind.


Wait, what? Was this clearly shown? Maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention.


----------



## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

zordude said:


> Wait, what? Was this clearly shown? Maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention.


No. It was just the direwolf attacking. There's nothing about Robb "being" the dire wolf if that's what he's trying to say.


----------



## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

zordude said:


> Wait, what? Was this clearly shown? Maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention.


No, Robb doesn't attack AS grey wind. This is yet another trick of show of glossing over a battle.



audioscience said:


> Agreed. All the Direwolves have been named. I'm not sure how dog names would be consider spoilers anyhow?
> 
> I think even in one of the short scenes Rickon has he calls Shaggydog by his name - when he's with Osha in the crypt.


I don't know if they go over it in the show. Bran immediately names him after coming out of his coma in the books. I think for dramatic effect, the show where he wakes up cuts as soon as his eyes open.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Wife: "What was in the box?"
Me: "Ned's head, baby. Ned's head."


----------



## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

It was a pretty big box. I figure there was more than just his head. Feet maybe?


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

His body.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

His bones..?


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

All of which are possibilities, but none of those made for good Pulp Fiction references...


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

You mean seven?


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

DUDE_NJX said:


> You mean seven?


No he means Pulp Fiction.
"Who's motorcycle is that?"
"It's a chopper, baby"
"Who's chopper is that?"
"It's Zed's"
"Who's Zed?"
"Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead"


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

danterner said:


> All of which are possibilities, but none of those made for good Pulp Fiction references...


You do realize, I hope, that there is more to life than Pulp Fiction references.

Maybe not a LOT more, but...

(Might make a good book: "Everything I Know About Life I Learned From Pulp Fiction")


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

Se7en is "what's in the box?"


----------



## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

Anubys said:


> I don't think so. He's never seen her in his life; why would he know who she is?


"The Boy" was traveling with one of the Stark's bannermen, heading towards Winterfell. Arya hasn't been seen since Ned's death, and she isn't with the Starks. Tywin isn't dumb, if he isn't 100% sure that is Arya, then he is at least willing to take her on as a cup bearer until he can be sure. He also might not to "out" her in front of the other Wall conscripts, who might be motivated to return her to the the Starks for a sure reward.



Anubys said:


> I was disappointed in the opening credits as the 2 new places didn't rise up from the map like the other places. Any idea why it was done? is it because it's not one of the kingdoms? (but the Dothkhari isn't a kingdom and it rose...there I go again, arguing with myself!).


Qarth definitely rose up from the map, and as others said Harrenhall is ruined. It was obvious to me watching the opening credits that Qarth was where Danerys was going to end up. My problem is that the credits for this episode showed both Pyke and The Wall without any action taking place in those locales (Winterfell too, but one can make the case the since both Kate and Rob (Arya as well) were important to the episode Winterfell did belong.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

audioscience said:


> Se7en is "what's in the box?"


Right, and Pulp Fiction was "what's in the briefcase?"

My wife didn't see Se7en, and the Zed/Ned dead/head twist seemed close enough.

A joke explained loses its humor.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

danterner said:


> Right, and Pulp Fiction was "what's in the briefcase?"
> 
> My wife didn't see Se7en, and the Zed/Ned dead/head twist seemed close enough.
> 
> A joke explained loses its humor.


If it helps I got it immediately and smiled.


----------



## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

"Whose body is that?"
"It's bones, baby"
"Whose bones are that?"
"It's Ned's."
"Who's Ned?"
"Ned's dead, baby. Ned's dead."


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

stellie93 said:


> In either world his already having a wife would slow things down too. I don't remember hearing about divorce in Westeros....
> 
> Who was the guy who was discussing what to do with all the prisoners with Rob? I think he mentioned flaying as a torture technique. I have read the books and still can't catch all the names, or maybe because I know who I'm looking for I'm jumping to conclusions. I also missed that it was Tywin who took over at Harrenhaul--again looking for someone else.....


To explain some things in your paragraph will reveal some big differences between the book and the show.



Spoiler



It was Roose Bolton who talked to Rob about flaying men. You may have been confused by his presence because at this point in the books he is not in the field, he is one of the prisoners (along with his army) at Harrenhal. Tywin and the Mountain were holding Harrenhal together for a time but both eventually leave and put Harrenhal under the control of Armory Loach (sp?) and also the Brave Companions. At that point Arya helps free Roose Bolton's men and becomes _his_ cupbearer.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

tiassa said:


> "The Boy" was traveling with one of the Stark's bannermen, heading towards Winterfell.


No, "he" was traveling with one of the Night Watch's recruiters, headed towards the Wall.


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## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> No, "he" was traveling with one of the Night Watch's recruiters, headed towards the Wall.


Not to mention that Tywin waltzes in and knows nothing of where those specific prisoners came from, right? Does the torturer mention where they came from?


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Shaunnick said:


> To explain some things in your paragraph will reveal some big differences between the book and the show.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



I don't believe Roose Bolton was ever a prisoner at Harrenhal. He arrived at Harrenhal shortly after Arya freed the Northman and he took charge of Harrenhal until being called away by Robb and left Harrenhal to Vargo Hoat.


----------



## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

tiassa said:


> "The Boy" was traveling with one of the Stark's bannermen, heading towards Winterfell. Arya hasn't been seen since Ned's death, and she isn't with the Starks. Tywin isn't dumb, if he isn't 100% sure that is Arya, then he is at least willing to take her on as a cup bearer until he can be sure. He also might not to "out" her in front of the other Wall conscripts, who might be motivated to return her to the the Starks for a sure reward.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> No, "he" was traveling with one of the Night Watch's recruiters, headed towards the Wall.


I wanted to point that out as well, Tiassa. You are confused. Arya was not with any of Lord Stark's bannermen. She was traveling with Yoren, who is from the Night's Watch, under the guise that (s)he was going to the wall. There is no proper association with the Nights Watch and Ned Stark (other than his brother Benjen being a ranger, now lost). There's no reason for someone in Westeros to think that Arya would be with them.


----------



## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

And maybe they didn't tell tywin where those prisoners came from because, as a Lord, he might have enough respect for the Watch that he would not approve.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> You do realize, I hope, that there is more to life than Pulp Fiction references.
> 
> Maybe not a LOT more, but...
> 
> (Might make a good book: "Everything I Know About Life I Learned From Pulp Fiction")


Somebody like Tom Hanks had a bit where everything you needed to say is a line from The Godfather.


----------



## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

cherry ghost said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe Roose Bolton was ever a prisoner at Harrenhal. He arrived at Harrenhal shortly after Arya freed the Northman and he took charge of Harrenhal until being called away by Robb and left Harrenhal to Vargo Hoat.





Spoiler



This is accurate. He wasn't a prisoner. Although you can't blame someone for being confused. The whole Bolton/Frey plot-line can be confusing as hell. This is where a page like this comes in handy:

http://towerofthehand.com/reference/k/00036/index.html

Be careful if you haven't read all the books to set the 'scope' correctly.


----------



## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

netringer said:


> Somebody like Tom Hanks had a bit where everything you needed to say is a line from The Godfather.


You've got mail!


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JETarpon said:


> You've got mail!


Can you refuse it?


----------



## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

JETarpon said:


> You've got mail!


That quote I know. I liked Pulp Fiction, but have only seen it once so I didn't remember the line. Sorry, danterner.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

fmowry said:


> Sorry, danterner.


I had heard that you were a serious man, to be treated with respect. But I must say no to you.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Shaunnick said:


> To explain some things in your paragraph will reveal some big differences between the book and the show.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, thanks--we were discussing this at work today and couldn't remember how it happened in the book, even tho we've both read them all.

If I were Tywin I wouldn't want to drink from any cup that Arya had access to, unless she did drink from it first. If he's not on her list, the rest of his family is......


----------



## bobino (Jul 24, 2002)

audioscience said:


> I wanted to point that out as well, Tiassa. You are confused. Arya was not with any of Lord Stark's bannermen. She was traveling with Yoren, who is from the Night's Watch, under the guise that (s)he was going to the wall. There is no proper association with the Nights Watch and Ned Stark (other than his brother Benjen being a ranger, now lost). There's no reason for someone in Westeros to think that Arya would be with them.


Also, Tywin doesn't know Arya is missing from King's Landing. Tyrion came from meeting with his father to King's Landing to assume the position of the Hand. It was there he learned from Cersei that Arya was missing.

There's no reason that Tywin would think she is Arya. He might suspect she is high born from the north because of her accent but that's a reach.

-Bob


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

bobino said:


> Also, Tywin doesn't know Arya is missing from King's Landing. Tyrion came from meeting with his father to King's Landing to assume the position of the Hand. It was there he learned from Cersei that Arya was missing.
> 
> There's no reason that Tywin would think she is Arya. He might suspect she is high born from the north because of her accent but that's a reach.
> 
> -Bob


Cmon. They get news fast on Raven Union. They knew Ned got offed....and Ned summoned Tywin to court over The Mountain.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

The torturers didn't even differentiate between those they caught from some village and those they caught from Yoren. They were asking them the same questions!

And we saw Tywin's entire exchange from the moment he got there to the moment he hired her as the cup bearer. He just saw someone who can do the job.

What I REALLY worry about is that Tywin likes his women on the young side and has other plans for the poor little peasant girl he just hired.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> The torturers didn't even differentiate between those they caught from some village and those they caught from Yoren. They were asking them the same questions!


I think as far as they're concerned, answers are just something that could potentially get in the way of the torture...


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

netringer said:


> Cmon. They get news fast on Raven Union. They knew Ned got offed....and Ned summoned Tywin to court over The Mountain.


But Cersei had clearly put a lid on that particular bit of news; disappointing their father is something all 3 children dread more than death.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think as far as they're concerned, answers are just something that could potentially get in the way of the torture...


speaking of torture: isn't there a better way (off the top of my head: a big huge sword or an ax!) to cut off a leg than slowly sawing it off while complaining about the horrors of war?


----------



## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

Anubys said:


> speaking of torture: isn't there a better way (off the top of my head: a big huge sword or an ax!) to cut off a leg than slowly sawing it off while complaining about the horrors of war?


Nope. A sword will just shatter the bone, making things worse.

--Carlos V.


----------



## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

Unbeliever said:


> Nope. A sword will just shatter the bone, making things worse.
> 
> --Carlos V.


Also, using a saw is much more accurate than swinging a great big, heavy sword or axe. Besides, that girl was rather small. I doubt she'd be able to swing that heavy of a heavy weapon. And if she could a few times, she'd quickly get too sore and tired to help other wounded.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

cherry ghost said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe Roose Bolton was ever a prisoner at Harrenhal. He arrived at Harrenhal shortly after Arya freed the Northman and he took charge of Harrenhal until being called away by Robb and left Harrenhal to Vargo Hoat.





Spoiler



No, he was. He was caught by Vargo Hoat and the Brave Companions and brought before Armory Loach at Harrenhal. It was his group that Arya freed with her "weasel" soup.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

What was the headdress thing the "nurse" who sawed off the leg was wearing? Was it like a red cross type symbol or a religious one or just a house thing? Were the women who brought in Ned's bones in the box wearing the same thing?


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I swear the black guy of the #13's last name was "Ducksauce". That's what it sounded to me.


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## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

stellie93 said:


> What was the headdress thing the "nurse" who sawed off the leg was wearing? Was it like a red cross type symbol or a religious one or just a house thing? Were the women who brought in Ned's bones in the box wearing the same thing?


I don't think the nurse who sawed the leg was wearing the headress, but there probably were some roaming the battlefield in that scene. They are called the Silent Sisters and are something like the morticians of Westeros.


----------



## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

Sigh.

I'd reply to some of the Spoilered posts with a correction or two, but I don't want to annoy Photoshopgrrrrrrrrrrl.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Shaunnick said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> No, he was. He was caught by Vargo Hoat and the Brave Companions and brought before Armory Loach at Harrenhal. It was his group that Arya freed with her "weasel" soup.





Spoiler



Roose was not captured and his men being captured was part of the plan with Vargo Hoat. http://towerofthehand.com/books/102/048/index.html


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

billypritchard said:


> Sigh.
> 
> I'd reply to some of the Spoilered posts with a correction or two, but I don't want to annoy Photoshopgrrrrrrrrrrl.


As long as it's in spoiler tags, post away.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

billypritchard said:


> Sigh.
> 
> I'd reply to some of the Spoilered posts with a correction or two, but I don't want to annoy Photoshopgrrrrrrrrrrl.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Okay I see why I was mentioned. My "and it begins" comment in last week's thread. Dude relax, I was just messing with you guys. I should have used a smiley to be clear.    :up:   
We good?


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

cherry ghost said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Roose was not captured and his men being captured was part of the plan with Vargo Hoat. http://towerofthehand.com/books/102/048/index.html





Spoiler



Good call. I remember there were Northmen captured, and that Roose Bolton's men had been engaged by the Brave Companions. And I remember Roose Bolton being involved in all of that so I remembered him as captured.


----------



## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Spoiler



Amory Lorch


----------



## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

photoshopgrl said:


> Okay I see why I was mentioned. My "and it begins" comment in last week's thread. Dude relax, I was just messing with you guys. I should have used a smiley to be clear.    :up:
> We good?


I thought you mentioned that reading the posts on your phone the spoilers weren't hidden? Or did I dream that?


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

JETarpon said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Amory Lorch


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

billypritchard said:


> I thought you mentioned that reading the posts on your phone the spoilers weren't hidden? Or did I dream that?


Nope I said I was always tempted to read them. I use Forum Runner on my iPhone so it's great with keeping spoilers hidden.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

billypritchard said:


> I thought you mentioned that reading the posts on your phone the spoilers weren't hidden? Or did I dream that?


That was me. Don't feel bad, photoshopgrl and I are all too often mistaken for each other! 

just for the record, I totally disagree that a saw is better than a cut from a sharp sword. But it's too gruesome of a discussion to have so I'll have the last word and run away.


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

stellie93 said:


> What was the headdress thing the "nurse" who sawed off the leg was wearing? Was it like a red cross type symbol or a religious one or just a house thing? Were the women who brought in Ned's bones in the box wearing the same thing?





billypritchard said:


> I don't think the nurse who sawed the leg was wearing the headress, but there probably were some roaming the battlefield in that scene. They are called the Silent Sisters and are something like the morticians of Westeros.


The symbol they are wearing is the seven-pointed star which is the symbol for the seven faced god that they worship in the south. Sadly they never have fully explained this and I think it causes some confusion. Like billy says, they are called the Silent Sisters. I would compare them to nuns. They are holy women who have taken a vow of silence (you'll also notice they have a covering over their mouths).

You'll see the seven-pointed star in other places in the show if you look for it. I believe it's in the painted glass windows in the throne room at King's Landing if I'm not mistaken.

I want to point out a couple of notes in case others have missed it:

The seven gods were the ones being burned on Dragonstone in the first episode of the season (when we meet Melisandre, Davos and Stannis).

The seven gods are made up of:

The Crone
The Maiden
The Mother
The Father
The Smith
The Warrior
The Stranger

Each of them as a personality or "purpose" and I look at them as similar to the holy trinity in Catholicism (x2.3, ). It's not uber-important but I think it's good backstory that will make some things clearer.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Jeoffery sure gets scolded a lot in public!


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

pmyers said:


> Joffery sure gets scolded a lot in public!


Not nearly enough!


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Not nearly enough!


or ***** slapped


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Anubys said:


> That was me. Don't feel bad, photoshopgrl and I are all too often mistaken for each other!


Heee!


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Anubys said:


> What I REALLY worry about is that *Tywin likes his women on the young side* and has other plans for the poor little peasant girl he just hired.


Do we know this, or are you just speculatin'?



pmyers said:


> I swear the black guy of the #13's last name was "Ducksauce". That's what it sounded to me.


Xaro Xhoan Daxos.

Close!

PS: I don't know how y'all can even follow some of this w/o captions. Names, places, mumblers...


----------



## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

audioscience said:


> I wanted to point that out as well, Tiassa. You are confused. Arya was not with any of Lord Stark's bannermen. She was traveling with Yoren, who is from the Night's Watch, under the guise that (s)he was going to the wall. There is no proper association with the Nights Watch and Ned Stark (other than his brother Benjen being a ranger, now lost). There's no reason for someone in Westeros to think that Arya would be with them.


OK I thought that Yoren was closer to Ned Stark that he seems to be (hence the ability to recognize Arya even as scruffy as she was at the execution). I also (incorrectly) thought that the chief Night's Watch recruiter would be a Stark bannerman because the Night's watch and Starks are rather closely aligned.

I still wont be at all surprized if Tywin already knows that Aria is who she is.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

tiassa said:


> I still wont be at all surprized if Tywin already knows that Aria is who she is.


How would he? He doesn't know she's missing; he's (probably) never met her. Putting 2 and 2 together is one thing, but there's no 2 and no 2 to put together...


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

tiassa said:


> OK I thought that Yoren was closer to Ned Stark that he seems to be (hence the ability to recognize Arya even as scruffy as she was at the execution). I also (incorrectly) thought that the chief Night's Watch recruiter would be a Stark bannerman because the Night's watch and Starks are rather closely aligned.
> 
> I still wont be at all surprized if Tywin already knows that Aria is who she is.


I think the Night's Watch is supposed to be independent of all the intrigue going on in the rest of the country. They can't protect the realm if they are fighting each other every time a lord rebels. I think he had met Arya when he met with Ned earlier. I don't think we were ever told whose bannerman he was in his former life--pre Willem.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

astrohip said:


> Do we know this, or are you just speculatin'?
> 
> Xaro Xhoan Daxos.
> 
> ...


100% pure speculation!

and no way I would catch everything without CC on. I watch it the first time with it and then the second time (around Friday night) without it.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

tiassa said:


> OK I thought that Yoren was closer to Ned Stark that he seems to be (hence the ability to recognize Arya even as scruffy as she was at the execution). I also (incorrectly) thought that the chief Night's Watch recruiter would be a Stark bannerman because the Night's watch and Starks are rather closely aligned.
> 
> I still wont be at all surprized if Tywin already knows that Aria is who she is.





stellie93 said:


> I think the Night's Watch is supposed to be independent of all the intrigue going on in the rest of the country. They can't protect the realm if they are fighting each other every time a lord rebels. I think he had met Arya when he met with Ned earlier. I don't think we were ever told whose bannerman he was in his former life--pre Willem.


That's when he met Arya; when he went to the Hand of the King (Ned), asking for access to the guys locked up in jail for the Night Watch. She came into Ned's office while they were talking.

Ned is also dear to Yoren on account of his brother. So the respect and friendship was only natural.


----------



## Mr. Merkin (May 6, 2005)

Just so people are not mistaken, the smoke queef was a strategic maneuver by Stannis, they knew it was coming and they positioned Melisandre upwind of Renley's camp. As anyone who read the books can attest to, the pungent waft spreads through the camp and by morning many of Renley's soldiers are either sickened or fled during the night from the awful fumes. Just wanted to clarify...


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

What a post. I hope you're joking


----------



## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

I lol'd.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

pmyers said:


> What a post. I hope you're joking


If you're really not sure, google "smoke queef."


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

tiassa said:


> OK I thought that Yoren was closer to Ned Stark that he seems to be (hence the ability to recognize Arya even as scruffy as she was at the execution).


He didn't "recognize" Arya. She was standing on the statue of Baelor when Ned was brought out for execution. Ned saw her. As Ned was being walked up to the stage, Ned passed by Yoren. Ned stopped, leaned over to Yoren and yelled "Baelor". Yoren looked to the statue and saw Arya.


----------



## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> How would he? He doesn't know she's missing; he's (probably) never met her. Putting 2 and 2 together is one thing, but there's no 2 and no 2 to put together...


Are we sure about that? Tywin must have sources in King's Landing that would inform him that Arya is missing, WRMS (Westeros Raven Mail Service) seems to be pretty efficient. He then comes across a well-educated northern girl disguised as a boy trying to get north. Given the patriarchal society in Westeros likely that such a girl would be a member of a noble family. I suppose that she could be a daughter of Lord Frey (he is the Lord of "the Twins", right?) as he seems to have an abundance kids and might not have noticed one was missing, but I'm still going with the idea that Tywin at least suspects that Arya might be who she is. You are all free to say "I told you so" when I'm wrong.


----------



## StiflersMom (Sep 16, 2009)

Why are they going in to battle with Bullwinkle on their banners?


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Finally got all caught up with this (Hockey playoffs have been causing all kinds of havoc on my viewing schedule). 

That Joffrey is one sick kid (is that what happens because he was born of incest?). I knew when he had the two whores, that this was going to involve some S&M, only I thought HE was going to do the beating. We knew he has that cruel streak in him. Also, is there a reason why, as king, he couldn't just tell his Uncle to either take a hike or, even have him killed? The funny thing about Joffrey is that when it came to killing Ned, he dismissed the advice of his mother, yet now that he is king, he seems to be bowing to the will of his Uncle. 

I liked Dany's powerplay at Qarth. It was a huge risk, but she found one ally. It should be interesting going forward to see how she uses this. Oh, and we need to have Dany in various stages of undress like last year 

The one thing I didn't get at Harranhall. If they are torturing and killing prisoners in front of the rest of the prisoners, and the prisoners know they are going to be killed regardless of whether they give up any info, why even bother?

I too thought that Tywin recognized Arya somehow. It seemed odd that he would A) pick her out as a girl, and B) decide to hire her. My thought was that he knew and this gives him some more leverage in his efforts to get Jamie back.

I found the Stannis vs. Renley scenes immensely interesting. I liked the back and forth between the two. 

The smoke queef - Yes, my first thought was the Lost Smoke Monster. I had no idea she was pregnant until she disrobed.

Also Mr. Merkin, if what you said is true, you should have spoilerized that. This is NOT clear that this is going to happen. Many (most?) of us didn't read the books (I read the first one only so far) so that is a MAJOR spoiler.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

photoshopgrl said:


> or ***** slapped


Yeah, I have mixed feelings about Joffrey. On one hand, I grit my teeth everytime I see him. OTOH, anytime he's on screen, I can at least hope he gets slapped.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> The one thing I didn't get at Harranhall. If they are torturing and killing prisoners in front of the rest of the prisoners, and the prisoners know they are going to be killed regardless of whether they give up any info, why even bother?


I really really don't think they're looking for information, or even want to get it. They just want to torture people, and it's more fun if your future victims are watching.

That's why Tywin was so pissed...it was wasteful.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I really really don't think they're looking for information, or even want to get it. They just want to torture people, and it's more fun if your future victims are watching.
> 
> That's why Tywin was so pissed...it was wasteful.


Then why bother asking them for info? Just a ruse?


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> The one thing I didn't get at Harranhall. If they are torturing and killing prisoners in front of the rest of the prisoners, and the prisoners know they are going to be killed regardless of whether they give up any info, why even bother?
> 
> I too thought that Tywin recognized Arya somehow. It seemed odd that he would A) pick her out as a girl, and B) decide to hire her. My thought was that he knew and this gives him some more leverage in his efforts to get Jamie back.


I had the same thoughts. What incentive do the prisoners have to say anything beyond telling the torturer what to do with himself?

I found it interesting that Tywin spotted Arya as a girl immediately, while everyone else was clueless. 



> Also Mr. Merkin, if what you said is true, you should have spoilerized that. This is NOT clear that this is going to happen. Many (most?) of us didn't read the books (I read the first one only so far) so that is a MAJOR spoiler.


Agreed! I'm hoping it was a joke, but if real, it would certainly be a spoiler.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> Also Mr. Merkin, if what you said is true, you should have spoilerized that. This is NOT clear that this is going to happen. Many (most?) of us didn't read the books (I read the first one only so far) so that is a MAJOR spoiler.


I've read all the books and have no idea what he's talking about. It's just some made up silliness for unknown reasons, so don't worry about it.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

You would think that Robb, Stannis, Renly, the old guy and whoever else I've forgotten would be smart enough to team up and totally kick Lannister butt and then fight over the crown later. You might as well get rid of the common enemy first.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Mr. Merkin said:


> Just so people are not mistaken, the smoke queef was a strategic maneuver by Stannis, they knew it was coming and they positioned Melisandre upwind of Renley's camp. As anyone who read the books can attest to, the pungent waft spreads through the camp and by morning many of Renley's soldiers are either sickened or fled during the night from the awful fumes. Just wanted to clarify...


This was funny. Seeing the PO'ed reactions to it because people think it is a spoiler is even funnier.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> Then why bother asking them for info? Just a ruse?


Not a ruse, an excuse.

If you want to torture people, you have to be asking them for information. Because otherwise, it would just be RUDE.

It's just important to pick people who don't have the information you're asking for. Because otherwise, they'd tell you, and then you'd lose your excuse.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> ...That Joffrey is one sick kid (is that what happens because he was born of incest?). I knew when he had the two whores, that this was going to involve some S&M, only I thought HE was going to do the beating. We knew he has that cruel streak in him. Also, is there a reason why, as king, he couldn't just tell his Uncle to either take a hike or, even have him killed? The funny thing about Joffrey is that when it came to killing Ned, he dismissed the advice of his mother, yet now that he is king, he seems to be bowing to the will of his Uncle.
> ...


Yep. Tyrion's power comes from being named as acting hand by the real hand, Tywin, when King Joffrey picks his hand in the first place. It has to come down to nobody wanting to mess with Tywin.

Cersie's hoo-hah should be tattoo-labeled "Lanisters only."

The entry Qarth deal is a direct lift from the Wizard of Oz. 

Will you show us the dragons?
--No.
Why not?
--You think this sucker is dripping in CGI budget?


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

tiassa said:


> Are we sure about that? Tywin must have sources in King's Landing that would inform him that Arya is missing, WRMS (Westeros Raven Mail Service) seems to be pretty efficient. He then comes across a well-educated northern girl disguised as a boy trying to get north. Given the patriarchal society in Westeros likely that such a girl would be a member of a noble family. I suppose that she could be a daughter of Lord Frey (he is the Lord of "the Twins", right?) as he seems to have an abundance kids and might not have noticed one was missing, but I'm still going with the idea that Tywin at least suspects that Arya might be who she is. You are all free to say "I told you so" when I'm wrong.


I told you so. Here's a hint:



Spoiler



Tywin never even sees her in the book.



You have to understand how large this area is. The Lannister men are tearing through every town and village around the God's Eye. Pillaging, raping and destroying pretty much everything. Everyone in this lot is mixed together. They don't know who's who or where they're from. Polliver and the Tickler are going through people at random, asking questions and enjoying the torture process. No one's even looking for Arya or Gendry at this point. They're in the middle of a war.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Do you really think that Tywin would recognize Arya and just not tell anyone to keep her safe and secure? he would risk someone raping her or killing her for fun on her way to her new job?

he can't just trade Sensa for Jaime. He has to find Arya as well. And he's just going to take a chance on ANYTHING happening to her if he really found her?

I may end up being wrong, but I just don't see that happening.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

audioscience said:


> Polliver and the Tickler are going through people at random, asking questions and enjoying the torture process.





Spoiler



Tickler is asking one important question, "where is the Brotherhood?"


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

cherry ghost said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Tickler is asking one important question, "where is the Brotherhood?"


Speaking of which, either it slipped past me in the show, or it relates to the books, but:



Spoiler



What is the Brotherhood?


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

allan said:


> Speaking of which, either it slipped past me in the show, or it relates to the books, but:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



They haven't mentioned it in the show up until now. It is the "Brotherhood Without Banners" also known as the Knights of Hollow Hill which is lead by Beric Dondarrion. Dondarrion was charged with bringing Gregor Clegane to justice by Ned Stark before he died. They act as a sort of guerrilla force in the war. Stark did dispatch Dondarrion in season 1 but it was a pretty quick scene and forgettable if you didn't know who he was from the books.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

allan said:


> Speaking of which, either it slipped past me in the show, or it relates to the books, but:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



not really in the show yet. I don't want to go to far with this, so I'll just say that they're


Spoiler



the group that Ned enlisted to bring The Mountain to justice and are led by Beric Dondarrion, who we saw very briefly in Season 1.






ETA - Took too long coming up with a good answer, Audioscience beat me to it


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Shaunnick said:


> This was funny. Seeing the PO'ed reactions to it because people think it is a spoiler is even funnier.


The way things are going in the story so far, I wouldn't put it past Martin (or HBO) to actually DO that.

But yeah, it appears I've been punked (or whatever the 2010s version of that is).


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

audioscience said:


> I told you so. Here's a hint:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well someone was looking for Gendry earlier in the journey.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> Well someone was looking for Gendry earlier in the journey.


AFAIK, that was the King's guard on Jeffy's orders. These are Lannister men....oh yeah, they did ask for Gentry.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> ...The smoke queef - Yes, my first thought was the Lost Smoke Monster. I had no idea she was pregnant until she disrobed...


my take on that was that the "gestation" period was VERY short and she had no signs till right then. I assumed that romp on the table had happened the night before and she gave "birth" the next night.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> The way things are going in the story so far, I wouldn't put it past Martin (or HBO) to actually DO that.
> 
> But yeah, it appears I've been punked (or whatever the 2010s version of that is).


If I were writing the story, *I'd* probably do that!  Which is probably why nobody has ever been interested in any of my stories.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

pmyers said:


> my take on that was that the "gestation" period was VERY short and she had no signs till right then. I assumed that romp on the table had happened the night before and she gave "birth" the next night.


well, given the time it takes to march from one place to another, I say maybe a month 

they did travel by ship this time. Stannis' army must be really small.


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## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

Anubys said:


> well, given the time it takes to march from one place to another, I say maybe a month
> 
> they did travel by ship this time. Stannis' army must be really small.


Or he has a lot of ships.


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## Skullsmasher (Apr 25, 2012)

Spoiler



It was Robett Glover who was captured along with his men. You guys already caught that so... Not sure why Robett Glover always fascinated me but he did- and there's really not much (in the big picture) about him in the books.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> That Joffrey is one sick kid (is that what happens because he was born of incest?).
> ...
> The funny thing about Joffrey is that when it came to killing Ned, he dismissed the advice of his mother, yet now that he is king, he seems to be bowing to the will of his Uncle.


Nope, that's not the result of incest. It's the result of bad parenting. When you've got a mother who tells you things like "If you want to [screw] painted whores you can, because the world will be exactly what you want it to be", then you can expect to have a pretty deviant, antisocial child. The real world has plenty of people raised exactly that way, and many of them turn out just as bad (though luckily few have enough power to get away with acting as terribly as Joffrey).

On the other hand, Tyrion has probably shown himself to be much more of an authority figure. I'm assuming scenes like the slap in Winterfell were probably not one-time occurrences.



> Also, is there a reason why, as king, he couldn't just tell his Uncle to either take a hike or, even have him killed?


Well, as dumb as he is, surely even Joffrey realizes his power isn't much without Tywin providing the bankroll. As we learned last season, the kingdom is quite far in debt.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Anubys said:


> well, given the time it takes to march from one place to another, I say maybe a month
> 
> they did travel by ship this time. Stannis' army must be really small.


Yeah, I guess I don't know where Stannis was for the map romp in relationship to where they had that meeting on the cliff or how long it took them to get there. I guess I just assumed it had only been a couple of days.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

pmyers said:


> Yeah, I guess I don't know where Stannis was for the map romp in relationship to where they had that meeting on the cliff or how long it took them to get there. I guess I just assumed it had only been a couple of days.


I'm pretty sure the meeting on the cliff was at Storms End:

http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season2/#!/locations/storms-end/

The maproom romp happened back at Dragonstone:

http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season2/#!/locations/dragonstone/

As for time, I don't know, but the romp happened in episode 11 and this was episode 14, and in the other episodes we've seen a lot of time pass for the other groups. We've seen Cat ride all the way from the Robb's position in the North down to where Renley is. Then Littlefinger had to get wind that she was down there, then travel there himself with Ned's bones. I'd assume that's at least a month minimum.

Of course who knows how well the various timelines of different groups line up with each other in the show. It could be that Stannis' episode 11 could happen at the same time as Renley's episode 13, but without evidence of such, I'm going to assume things that appear in an episode together probably happen and roughly the same time.


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

Steveknj said:


> That Joffrey is one sick kid (is that what happens because he was born of incest?).


Dany, Tommen and Myrcella seem fine.

Viserys and the Mad King...not so much.


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## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

Anubys said:


> Do you really think that Tywin would recognize Arya and just not tell anyone to keep her safe and secure? he would risk someone raping her or killing her for fun on her way to her new job?
> 
> he can't just trade Sensa for Jaime. He has to find Arya as well. And he's just going to take a chance on ANYTHING happening to her if he really found her?
> 
> I may end up being wrong, but I just don't see that happening.


I read audioscience's spoiler, so I know I'm probably wrong, but my theory was that Tywin recognized her (or thought that this well educated Northern girl _might_ be Arya) and wanted to get her out of the pool of prisoners without causing too much of a stir, because if the other prisoners found out she was Arya they might be inspired to free her, and return her to the Starks, she'd have to be worth some kind of a reward, maybe even a pardon for whatever it was that got them sent to the Wall in the first place. 
This was predicated on their current location being relatively close to the front lines (which I guess they aren't), and the fact that in Westeros holding the child of one's enemy as a quasi hostage seems to be a standard practice (Mad King and Jamie, Ned and Theon Greyjoy, Robert and Lancel Lannister, Sansa and Goeffery too--well, sort of)


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

And now an interview with the actor who "got farted at" in the beginning of the episode.

http://warmingglow.uproxx.com/2012/...game-of-thrones-answers-questions-about-farts

lol


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

tiassa said:


> I read audioscience's spoiler, so I know I'm probably wrong, but my theory was that Tywin recognized her (or thought that this well educated Northern girl _might_ be Arya) and wanted to get her out of the pool of prisoners without causing too much of a stir, because if the other prisoners found out she was Arya they might be inspired to free her, and return her to the Starks, she'd have to be worth some kind of a reward, maybe even a pardon for whatever it was that got them sent to the Wall in the first place.
> This was predicated on their current location being relatively close to the front lines (which I guess they aren't), and the fact that in Westeros holding the child of one's enemy as a quasi hostage seems to be a standard practice (Mad King and Jamie, Ned and Theon Greyjoy, Robert and Lancel Lannister, Sansa and Goeffery too--well, sort of)


No offense Tiassa, you have the right thought about the whole "hostage" thing, but you've got some facts mixed up.

Theon was a ward of Ned Stark after they defeated Balon Greyjoy, that is true. He effectively acted as a hostage although they didn't treat him like one. However, Jamie Lanister was not a ward for the Mad Kind, nor hostage of any sort it was quite the opposite. He was a member of the king's guard, sworn to protect King Aerys. Additionally, Tywin Lannister was formally Hand of the King for Aerys so there were some close connections there. The close connections led to the fall of Aerys when he let Tywin and his host into the castle. It wasn't a hostile situation until Jamie killed the king and the Lannistser men took over King's Landing and killed the remaining Targaryans.

Much in the same way, Lancel Lannistser was no ward, but he was King Robert's squire. Their houses were married so it is common for someone of the connected houses to take up squireship with the other.

It's interesting how easily these things get confusing just by watching the show alone and not having any background explanation.


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

Actually, Theon was a literal hostage in the classical usage of the word. He was a noble child given to an opposing faction as insurance that a treaty would be upheld. Theon was given education and treated according to his station in the Greyjoy House, as evidenced by the act that he had a brotherly relationship with Ned Stark's children.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Fleegle said:


> Actually was a literal hostage in teh classical usage of teh word.


Theon's nickname was "Actually"???


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

john4200 said:


> Theon's nickname was "Actually"???


Post corrected.


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## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

audioscience said:


> No offense Tiassa, you have the right thought about the whole "hostage" thing, but you've got some facts mixed up.
> 
> Theon was a ward of Ned Stark after they defeated Balon Greyjoy, that is true. He effectively acted as a hostage although they didn't treat him like one. However, Jamie Lanister was not a ward for the Mad Kind, nor hostage of any sort it was quite the opposite. He was a member of the king's guard, sworn to protect King Aerys. Additionally, Tywin Lannister was formally Hand of the King for Aerys so there were some close connections there. The close connections led to the fall of Aerys when he let Tywin and his host into the castle. It wasn't a hostile situation until Jamie killed the king and the Lannistser men took over King's Landing and killed the remaining Targaryans.
> 
> ...


I guess I keep trying to see literary counterpoint in the various characters stories, like the story of the Stark children and their wolves.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

quick question: have we seen Bronn put on the gold cloak yet? I don't recall if I saw that.

if not, I wonder if there's any meaning to it. come to think of it, have we ever seen him CLEAN?


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

Anubys said:


> quick question: have we seen Bronn put on the gold cloak yet? I don't recall if I saw that.
> 
> if not, I wonder if there's any meaning to it. come to think of it, have we ever seen him CLEAN?


No, I don't believe we've seen it. But I'm pretty sure he's the head of the City Watch now.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Anubys said:


> quick question: have we seen Bronn put on the gold cloak yet? I don't recall if I saw that.
> 
> if not, I wonder if there's any meaning to it. come to think of it, have we ever seen him CLEAN?
> 
> ...


I thought the gold cloaks were the King's private bodyguards. Maybe 8 of them? And Bronn is the head of the City Watch, of which there are... lots more (1000?).

For example, the guy Tyrion didn't threaten in this episode was a gold cloak.


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

astrohip said:


> I thought the gold cloaks were the King's private bodyguards. Maybe 8 of them? And Bronn is the head of the City Watch, of which there are... lots more (1000?).
> 
> For example, the guy Tyrion didn't threaten in this episode was a gold cloak.


Gold cloaks, are the city watch, and literally called "The Gold Cloaks." The Kingsguard wear white cloaks, (you see the Hound putting his around Sansa.)


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

astrohip said:


> For example, the guy Tyrion didn't threaten in this episode was a gold cloak.


I thought that was the guy he did threaten--Joffrey was the one he didn't--see the difference?  (or maybe I'm remembering wrong)


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

I'm so annoyed at myself. I'm rewatching this past week's episode and right there in the "previously on..." they say "round up any survivors, we'll take them back to Harrenhal" and I apparently missed it the week before and then again watching this the first time around.


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

photoshopgrl said:


> I'm so annoyed at myself. I'm rewatching this past week's episode and right there in the "previously on..." they say "round up any survivors, we'll take them back to Harrenhal" and I apparently missed it the week before and then again watching this the first time around.


I caught that too, but didn't catch it the first time around I know where it is! 

There are a lot of little things that can be tough to catch the first time around.

New episode tomorrow! :up:


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Bah. My power is out. Looks like no show for me tonight. . Someone else will have to start the thread.


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## Rickvz (Sep 5, 2000)

photoshopgrl said:


> Bah. My power is out. Looks like no show for me tonight. . Someone else will have to start the thread.


Sorry you has to miss it. I started a thread so jump in as soon as you get to watch it. I doubt you will wait long.


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