# TiVo 20.4.7 Priority Update Request Now Live



## gamo62

The priority page for 20.4.7 is now live.

http://www.tivo.com/priority_20.4.7


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## rsnaider

Added mine, lets see if this is better or worse the 20.4.6.RC1


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## Mikeguy

Just curious: any reason to sign up for or avoid priority upgrades?


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## rsnaider

As with any software change, bugs are going to occur and testing can never find all as you can see from posts in this forum and the Premium forums.

I figure if the software is going to hit my boxes anyway why not ask for it. If there is a show stopper hopefully it does not hit the box my family relies on most....


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## Mikeguy

In the end, everyone gets the same update (absent a major issue occurring with the rollout) and so, I guess, priority gets you being able to discuss matters earlier here.


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## mrizzo80

Wasn't expecting another update so soon. The last Priority update was just two months ago.

Anyone have any idea what may be in this (other than maybe Vudu for S4 hardware)?


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## tomhorsley

We could hope they are putting back the "everything" option in One Pass (but that is just hope, no evidence). I wish they'd post release notes before they start the signup .


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## foghorn2

They better fix the startup animation, my 5 year old cant wait!


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## Dan203

I'm all in. Even if it has no significant feature changes and is just a minor bug fix update I'm going to get it eventually so might as well be first.


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## BigJimOutlaw

mpeg4 Stream support has been in the pipe for "early 2015"... so maybe that.

There aren't too many rumors this time around.


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## Jed1

I signed up my two Premiere 4's. I just had to replace one of my Premiere 4's under warranty and when I updated the replacement Premiere 4 it stopped at 20.4.5c. I had to sign the unit up for the Priority update to get 20.4.6RC1. This was only a week and a half ago.

I hope this time TiVo doesn't pull a Keyser Soze on us Premiere owners and delay this update to a later time for no reason.


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## randian

Maybe they'll fix the "can't make a OnePass or update existing OnePasses for new shows in the guide" bug.


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## uw69

Can I be last?


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## ajwees41

BigJimOutlaw said:


> mpeg4 Stream support has been in the pipe for "early 2015"... so maybe that.
> 
> There aren't too many rumors this time around.


Wonder if it will be that and a few bug fixes why include Premiere?

Is Iheart Radio going to be included?


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## Sixto

Adding the ability to pick a channel for a Wishlist would be cool, to resolve the only OnePass item that I've had.


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## Mikeguy

foghorn2 said:


> They better fix the startup animation, my 5 year old cant wait!


Kinda embarrassing that this "intro." to TiVo when you set your device up doesn't work properly. A small thing, but I thought that my box might be defective.


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## astrohip

Mikeguy said:


> Just curious: any reason to sign up for or avoid priority upgrades?


There was an update a few back that had an issue. It wasn't caught in beta, but caused a problem for several people in early release. I decided at that point, even though I wasn't one with a problem, that there is hardly ever a reason to sign up for these.

Maybe if I knew there was a specific problem fixed, or a specific feature I wanted badly, I might sign up. Otherwise, I get it when I get it.


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## Bytez

I hope they remove that proxy for streaming.


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## russg

I'm hopeful that the Plex App will be enabled in the new update.


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## tomhorsley

"Remember Red, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things..."

Maybe that's why they don't tell us what is in the release before opening the priority updates, to give us a sense of hope .


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## rainwater

series5orpremier said:


> I suspect it's loading into my Roamio right now. Been taking an unusually long amount of time to load data after a network connection. Coming up on 20 minutes and 75% loaded.


It would be unusual for TiVo to release an update on Blue Moon. I mean who would even be there to pull the trigger!


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## series5orpremier

Doesn't look like I have it. I've never seen it take almost 30 minutes to load one day's worth of guide data, though.


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## JoeKustra

series5orpremier said:


> Doesn't look like I have it. I've never seen it take almost 30 minutes to load one day's worth of guide data, though.


I just initiated a download. It's really taking a long time during "Loading..". This is scary.


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## Mikeguy

astrohip said:


> There was an update a few back that had an issue. It wasn't caught in beta, but caused a problem for several people in early release. I decided at that point, even though I wasn't one with a problem, that there is hardly ever a reason to sign up for these.
> 
> Maybe if I knew there was a specific problem fixed, or a specific feature I wanted badly, I might sign up. Otherwise, I get it when I get it.


That's what I kinda was thinking (before I signed up, of course  )--let the other early adopters be the test subjects.


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## series5orpremier

Must be an app update. I just tried Hulu Plus for the second time. The first time I couldn't watch anything but now I'm at least streaming a program. They still don't have the full website selection though.


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## MacBrian

russg said:


> I'm hopeful that the Plex App will be enabled in the new update.


+1 :up:


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## sinanju

rsnaider said:


> Added mine, lets see if this is better or worse the 20.4.6.RC1


Short of boot-looping, it's hard to imagine worse.


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## dswallow

I really do wish they'd update that priority request page so you could log into your TiVo account and select the units to submit. it's such a pain going through TSN's one by one, especially with the groups of digits in separate fields; can't even cut & paste an entire TSN at a time.


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## trip1eX

dswallow said:


> I really do wish they'd update that priority request page so you could log into your TiVo account and select the units to submit. it's such a pain going through TSN's one by one, especially with the groups of digits in separate fields; can't even cut & paste an entire TSN at a time.


Exactly. I was going to sign up but then remembered the pain.


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## BigJimOutlaw

Took the Roamio 41 minutes to finish loading and it's not even pending a restart. Lol. Oh well.


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## ajwees41

JoeKustra said:


> I just initiated a download. It's really taking a long time during "Loading..". This is scary.


I've seen that on that on Premiere and it wasn't anything special maybe it was downloading gude info from the start. Nothing on Twitter either. it just took 4 hours to load info nothing no pending restart.


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## tomhorsley

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Took the Roamio 41 minutes to finish loading and it's not even pending a restart. Lol. Oh well.


Maybe this is related to the problems I've been having getting the android app to login today. Perhaps the TiVo servers are just having a bad electron day?


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## Jed1

JoeKustra said:


> I just initiated a download. It's really taking a long time during "Loading..". This is scary.


I also connected to the service at 5:41 PM and it finished loading at 7:21 PM. I only got a days worth of new guide data. It never took this long to load the data that the unit downloaded. This started with the One Pass Update.
The connection to the service and the down loading of the data is pretty fast, it is the loading of the data that is now taking forever. It was never this slow since I bought these TiVos in 2013. Even my new replacement Premiere is doing the same thing.
Oh Yea, no Yahoo Screen yet either. I wonder how many TiVo owners do not know about this forum and do not know that they should have these things.


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## justen_m

Maybe everybody should just do a preventative maintenance reboot?  Only half joking here... I don't think my Roamio has rebooted since the 20.4.6rc1 update. Maybe it could use a good enema to get things flowing smoothly again.


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## cherry ghost

Has an update ever required two connections before "pending restart?"


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## ajwees41

cherry ghost said:


> Has an update ever required two connections before "pending restart?"


not that I remember and this should still be a few weeks to a month away. haven't seen a priority list and 2 days later the boxes get the software, but stranger things happen


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## L David Matheny

justen_m said:


> Maybe everybody should just do a preventative maintenance reboot?  Only half joking here... I don't think my Roamio has rebooted since the 20.4.6rc1 update. Maybe it could use a good enema to get things flowing smoothly again.


People have been complaining lately about what appear to be guide problems. Maybe TiVo is forcing the equivalent of a Clear Program Information & To Do List (or something similar) to clean up errors in the downloaded databases.


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## tarheelblue32

Mikeguy said:


> Just curious: any reason to sign up for or avoid priority upgrades?





astrohip said:


> There was an update a few back that had an issue. It wasn't caught in beta, but caused a problem for several people in early release. I decided at that point, even though I wasn't one with a problem, that there is hardly ever a reason to sign up for these.
> 
> Maybe if I knew there was a specific problem fixed, or a specific feature I wanted badly, I might sign up. Otherwise, I get it when I get it.





Mikeguy said:


> That's what I kinda was thinking (before I signed up, of course  )--let the other early adopters be the test subjects.


I still like to sign up for the updates so that I know when the update is happening so I can babysit it. I force the connection to get the update and then restart the box manually to make sure nothing goes wrong. It's really hard to do that if you don't know the exact day the update will become available to you.

Sure, there is a possibility something could go wrong, but if it does TiVo usually does what it takes to make it right. If I recall correctly, the update that had the issue wasn't the real problem. They did stop the update to check some concerns, but continued on with it anyway. The actual problem came from an unintended rollback to the previous version of the software that caused the real problems. And people whom that happened to got a free slide pro remote out of it.


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## sangs

L David Matheny said:


> People have been complaining lately about what appear to be guide problems. Maybe TiVo is forcing the equivalent of a Clear Program Information & To Do List (or something similar) to clean up errors in the downloaded databases.


(EDIT: I'm thinking you were onto something as the problematic Roamio is working normally again this morning, following this download.)

Glad I saw this post. One of my Roamios is having what I would describe as "guide problems." The guide population is not instant or snappy, which has never been the case before this past week. (Oddly, it has not happened to my other Roamio.) I tried all the suggestions about clearing thumbs, suggestions, etc, but the problem has persisted.


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## samccfl99

This is my wish list (WHICH WILL NEVER HAPPEN DUE TO ABSOLUTELY NO VISION FROM TIVO DEVELOPMENT). frankly i do not believe there is anyone there anymore who actually knows how to modify the actual dvr code, but if there is, i would like 15 MIN TICS ALWAYS, ADD 4th FF/REW SPEED, MAKE A LAST-X SCREEN WHERE YOU CAN PICK FROM THE LAST X THINGS YOU WATCHED (COMCAST X1 SHOWS LAST 9) AND FINALLY FIX THE STUPID AUDIO CUTOUT GOING IN AND OUT OF TIVO CENTRAL. as to the last one, when you have an A/V, because of the FLASH programming they use in tivo central, the audio cutout causes a resync of the HDMI sound signal which can be anything from a split second to many seconds of no audio (i think they actually made it worse in 20.4.6+ 6a). guess i will have to start checking for Pending Restart. i dont like to wake up to find it rebooted, i would rather be there in case some disaster happened (like a few updates ago when it dumped all 119 Recently Deleted shows into My Shows causing havoc. they did fix that bug though later). the last priority update i got on 02-03 and the fixes came out on 03-10, so it is rather soon i think for 20.4.7, but who knows. at least they are trying to do more updates per year WHICH THEY SHOULD!!! FINALLY!!!


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## HarperVision

samccfl99 said:


> ............AND FINALLY FIX THE STUPID AUDIO CUTOUT GOING IN AND OUT OF TIVO CENTRAL. as to the last one, when you have an A/V,* because of the FLASH programming they use in tivo central, *the audio cutout causes a resync of the HDMI sound signal which can be anything from a split second to many seconds of no audio (i think they actually made it worse in 20.4.6+ 6a). .............


They don't use Flash anymore, they use Haxe.

(edited to fix "Hex" to "Haxe")


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## andyf

HarperVision said:


> They don't use Flash anymore, they use HEX.


I think you mean HAXE


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## Mikeguy

tarheelblue32 said:


> I still like to sign up for the updates so that I know when the update is happening so I can babysit it. I force the connection to get the update and then restart the box manually to make sure nothing goes wrong. It's really hard to do that if you don't know the exact day the update will become available to you.


How do you force the connection to get the update? I assume that this is different from making a manual network connection to the TiVo server, as that didn't result in the update for me. Thanks--


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## JoeKustra

Mikeguy said:


> How do you force the connection to get the update? I assume that this is different from making a manual network connection to the TiVo server, as that didn't result in the update for me. Thanks--


The TiVo connects, just like the scheduled connection. You can do a forced connection, but nothing will happen until it's your time. When it's done, the Status changes to "Pending Restart" if the update has downloaded. If you want, you can power cycle to get the update applied.

Or you can just wait.


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## Mikeguy

Cool, thanks--was sounding like there was a secret handshake.


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## HarperVision

andyf said:


> I think you mean HAXE


Yes thanks. I was thinking how it sounds rather than how it's spelled. It was early here in HI and I just started on my first cup o' Joe, cut me some slack brah!


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## andyf

HarperVision said:


> Yes thanks. I was thinking how it sounds rather than how it's spelled. It was early here in HI and I just started on my first cup o' Joe, cut me some slack brah!


If you live in HI then you get all the slack you need  [Jealous]


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## ajwees41

sangs said:


> (EDIT: I'm thinking you were onto something as the problematic Roamio is working normally again this morning, following this download.)
> 
> Glad I saw this post. One of my Roamios is having what I would describe as "guide problems." The guide population is not instant or snappy, which has never been the case before this past week. (Oddly, it has not happened to my other Roamio.) I tried all the suggestions about clearing thumbs, suggestions, etc, but the problem has persisted.


My premieres did the same thing one would freak out one day than the other the next day. Does anyone know how TSN's are numebered? I mean say you buy 2 of the same model what are chances they will be in numerical order by TSN. Maybe Tivo is grouping them in order to send guide fixes.


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## krkaufman

uw69 said:


> Can I be last?


chuckle.


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## samccfl99

*so does anyone have a crystal ball and know what may be in it besides the fixes from the last update? *

they actually fixed most of the OnePass problems in 20.4.6a. one thing i have noticed with the new (might i say disasterous) IOS app is that i cant program some regular old season passes (meaning not using streaming inputs). they just put out a new android app, i hope they do more work on the IOS app. they always try, but never totally succeed...

also it has not come out yet, but maybe next week. they seem to like to start pushing updates early mon or tue mornings. we shall see.


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## lessd

ajwees41 said:


> My premieres did the same thing one would freak out one day than the other the next day. Does anyone know how TSN's are numebered? I mean say you buy 2 of the same model what are chances they will be in numerical order by TSN. Maybe Tivo is grouping them in order to send guide fixes.


In my experience only the last 4 digits may be in some type of order, The TSN is coded in some way so that if you make an error in entering the TSN the chance of matching any other TiVo will be low.


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## Dan203

HarperVision said:


> They don't use Flash anymore, they use HEX.


Haxe is a language that allows you to write once and then cross compile for different platforms. One of the output formats is actually Flash. So it's possible that even though they're using Haxe for the code the final compilation is still running as Flash. Not 100% sure though. Haxe could have some native UI API that runs on the broadcom chip outside of Flash.


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## ajwees41

samccfl99 said:


> *so does anyone have a crystal ball and know what may be in it besides the fixes from the last update? *
> 
> they actually fixed most of the OnePass problems in 20.4.6a. one thing i have noticed with the new (might i say disasterous) IOS app is that i cant program some regular old season passes (meaning not using streaming inputs). they just put out a new android app, i hope they do more work on the IOS app. they always try, but never totally succeed...
> 
> also it has not come out yet, but maybe next week. they seem to like to start pushing updates early mon or tue mornings. we shall see.


It will probably be a month at least. Remember the 20.4.6 was delayed


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## BigJimOutlaw

samccfl99 said:


> *so does anyone have a crystal ball and know what may be in it besides the fixes from the last update? *


Vudu for Premiere is official. Mpeg4 support for Stream was slated for "early 2015". And iHeartRadio was announced "in the coming weeks" back in January. So we'll see if those timelines hold.

Things without a timeline in the rumor mill include Plex and I vaguely remember something being mentioned about watching more than one tuner at a time.


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## Mikeguy

BigJimOutlaw said:


> . . . and I vaguely remember something being mentioned about watching more than one tuner at a time.


Now, _that_ would be exciting to have!


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## HarperVision

Dan203 said:


> Haxe is a language that allows you to write once and then cross compile for different platforms. One of the output formats is actually Flash. So it's possible that even though they're using Haxe for the code the final compilation is still running as Flash. Not 100% sure though. Haxe could have some native UI API that runs on the broadcom chip outside of Flash.


Cool, thanks for the additional info Dan!


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## bradleys

BigJimOutlaw said:


> I vaguely remember something being mentioned about watching more than one tuner at a time.


Hmm...

I hadn't heard that.


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## NotVeryWitty

Dan203 said:


> Haxe is a language that allows you to write once and then cross compile for different platforms. One of the output formats is actually Flash. So it's possible that even though they're using Haxe for the code the final compilation is still running as Flash. Not 100% sure though. Haxe could have some native UI API that runs on the broadcom chip outside of Flash.


Makes no sense for Tivo to rewrite their UI in Haxe, and then have the Haxe generate Flash code. That would surely be even slower than the original native Flash code.


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## JamieP

NotVeryWitty said:


> Makes no sense for Tivo to rewrite their UI in Haxe, and then have the Haxe generate Flash code. That would surely be even slower than the original native Flash code.


They compile to a C++ back end using hxcpp. More information here: https://github.com/TiVo In particular, look for the slides from the WWX 2014 talk: https://github.com/TiVo/wwx2014


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## samccfl99

bradleys said:


> Hmm...
> 
> I hadn't heard that.


so that sounds like a picture in a picture. that would be neat. NOW DOES ANYONE THINK THEY NEED TO MODIFY THE BASIC DVR CODING??? such as having 15 tics all the time (does anyone like to try to FF thru an hour tic which is produced if a recording is 4 hours or more?) or maybe expanding each tuner buffer to 60 min (for those with bigger drives and did you know that it really is doing 60 min buffering (sometimes) even though it only shows 30 minutes) or having a LAST X screen like the comcast X1 has where you can just go directly to one of the LAST NINE things you have watched? AND OF COURSE GET RID OF THE STUPID AUDIO DELAY WHEN GOING IN AND OUT OF TIVO CENTRAL??? i have been banging on TiVo for years about these things. they just dont get it. am i crazy? i dont think so. ANYONE WISH TO COMMENT? thanks.


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## BigJimOutlaw

I am wracking my brain trying to remember where the "watch multiple tuners" came from. Maybe one of Tivo's surveys or something. In which case it could be a ways off still.

It could be PIP or it could be Back to the Future-style with a bunch of screens. There was no detail. I just remember a while back Tivo saying that the Haxe rewrite gives them extra performance to do UI things they've wanted to do but couldn't, and then thinking that something like this could be what they were talking about.


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## sinanju

samccfl99 said:


> i have been banging on TiVo for years about these things. they just dont get it. am i crazy?


There are bugs that have been hanging on for many years and, sadly, across many platforms. TiVo has need to do a major bug-fix-only release for quite some time now -- get rid of all those niggling little problems that peck away at and nearly ruin the TiVo experience. However, they have shown absolutely zero interest in such an effort. Sometimes I get the feeling that not only do they not find these problems annoying, they find us annoying for noticing them.


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## Mikeguy

sinanju said:


> Sometimes I get the feeling that not only do they not find these problems annoying, they find us annoying for noticing them.


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## BigJimOutlaw

There is some old plumbing in the Tivo code, for sure.

I think that because resources are so finite, their priority list is such that they will avoid doing something twice if they can help it. They will allow non-showstopper, legacy issues to fix themselves through eventual replacement.

For example, I have a hunch they are working on a UI refresh, which is why they're not spending a lot of time on conversions of SD screens or fixing that audio skip. Plus other things like the lack of coherent placement causing the VOD selection screen to be stuck in the Channels section. And notice how they're getting their ducks in a row to remove the ancient code that supported things like Amazon and web downloads.

Or maybe I'm completely talking out of my rear. 

But I do appreciate that now that the HD platform is FINALLY stable they are spending a little more time rounding it out with more of the smaller, very long-requested features. Even though some old bugs remain.


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## randian

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Even though some old bugs remain.


Old bugs? How about not introducing new bugs! Adding a Season Pass for the latest entries in the guide used to work. Now it doesn't, you have to wait a few days for those entries to no longer be the latest before you can add a OnePass for them.


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## BigJimOutlaw

randian said:


> Old bugs? How about not introducing new bugs!


That would be nice too.


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## ajwees41

BigJimOutlaw said:


> There is some old plumbing in the Tivo code, for sure.
> 
> I think that because resources are so finite, their priority list is such that they will avoid doing something twice if they can help it. They will allow non-showstopper, legacy issues to fix themselves through eventual replacement.
> 
> For example, I have a hunch they are working on a UI refresh, which is why they're not spending a lot of time on conversions of SD screens or fixing that audio skip. Plus other things like the lack of coherent placement causing the VOD selection screen to be stuck in the Channels section. And notice how they're getting their ducks in a row to remove the ancient code that supported things like Amazon and web downloads.
> 
> Or maybe I'm completely talking out of my rear.
> 
> But I do appreciate that now that the HD platform is FINALLY stable they are spending a little more time rounding it out with more of the smaller, very long-requested features. Even though some old bugs remain.


What's left to convert?


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## BigJimOutlaw

ajwees41 said:


> What's left to convert?


All the Settings screens.

I could be wrong, but it seems like they're getting ready to purge legacy code. First Amazon, now web downloads, Showcases and anything else that's HME could be next which basically hasn't been touched since 2007.


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## cherry ghost

randian said:


> Old bugs? How about not introducing new bugs! Adding a Season Pass for the latest entries in the guide used to work. Now it doesn't, you have to wait a few days for those entries to no longer be the latest before you can add a OnePass for them.


That's not true. You can even add a 1P for shows that aren't in the Guide at all in some cases.


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## Dan203

JamieP said:


> They compile to a C++ back end using hxcpp. More information here: https://github.com/TiVo In particular, look for the slides from the WWX 2014 talk: https://github.com/TiVo/wwx2014


The slides say that they're still using Flash for graphics and audio, so it looks like they pushed some of the lower level code of to native C++ but they're still using Flash for the UI.


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## b-ball-fanatic

BigJimOutlaw said:


> There is some old plumbing in the Tivo code, for sure.


hahaha!  Aptly descriptive!

(I hope you're right about the UI refresh, BTW.)


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## randian

cherry ghost said:


> That's not true. You can even add a 1P for shows that aren't in the Guide at all in some cases.


Yes, but that OnePass won't be channel specific like it should.


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## mrizzo80

re: potential UI refresh...

I'm still perfectly happy with the TiVo UI, but I'm curious what kind of UI refresh they may have in mind (assuming BigJim is on target with his thinking). It's always fun to have a new toy to play with. 

The current UI is officially 5 years old this month (Premiere released March 2010). I think it has aged well. It's slick (but not superficially slick), attractive, and very functional.

If they don't refresh it, I'd like to see better use of the right-hand-panel on TiVo Central when on My Shows. A few ideas:
*last X shows watched
*partially watched shows
*favorite shows list
*a "resume-binging" list (focused on OTT content, perhaps this would be a dynamic list that TiVo generates automatically based on what you have spent the most time watching over the previous couple of months -- and it would give you a way to begin playback, with 1-click, of the next episode for your most-watched 8 shows)


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## ajwees41

BigJimOutlaw said:


> All the Settings screens.
> 
> I could be wrong, but it seems like they're getting ready to purge legacy code. First Amazon, now web downloads, Showcases and anything else that's HME could be next which basically hasn't been touched since 2007.


Amazon was do to an FCC mandate or something to do with CC


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## BigJimOutlaw

ajwees41 said:


> Amazon was do to an FCC mandate or something to do with CC


That's true, but they didn't get rid of it until a replacement was ready. Now that we have it, and with web videos officially dying at the same time (coincidence?), there's almost nothing left. Why keep the ancient code? It adds to my hunch. 

Not saying it'll happen in this update, but it's possibly in the oven.


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## bradleys

BigJimOutlaw said:


> That's true, but they didn't get rid of it until a replacement was ready. Now that we have it, and with web videos officially dying at the same time (coincidence?), there's almost nothing left. Why keep the ancient code? It adds to my hunch.
> 
> Not saying it'll happen in this update, but it's possibly in the oven.


I agree... I think all of the legacy content is on a retirement plan. It will be interesting to see what tivo delivers in a couple weeks. I "expect" it will mostly be bug fixes and backend code. (Specifically MP4 stream update)

I never used the downloader - sounds interesting. I know that one pass allows you to create 1P's for some web videos and pod casts. Is this similar functionality? Is the concern download vs stream?


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## steinbch

BigJimOutlaw said:


> For example, I have a hunch they are working on a UI refresh, which is why they're not spending a lot of time on conversions of SD screens or fixing that audio skip. Plus other things like the lack of coherent placement causing the VOD selection screen to be stuck in the Channels section. And notice how they're getting their ducks in a row to remove the ancient code that supported things like Amazon and web downloads.


About a month ago at MWC there was a slightly tweaked HDUI being shown off care of Dave Zatz. Here's the link:

__
http://instagr.am/p/zviB0kwdnS/

Personally, the icons tweaks seem to be more modern and fit with the refreshed logo that is being rolled out over the next month.


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## BigJimOutlaw

bradleys said:


> I never used the downloader - sounds interesting. I know that one pass allows you to create 1P's for some web videos and pod casts. Is this similar functionality? Is the concern download vs stream?


Yeah, Search did allow folks to "subscribe" to video podcasts from Cnet, Revision 3 and other partners, but not anymore. Web videos aren't downloading and Tivo says it's been 86'ed.

The question now is whether there's a replacement or not... Will the Web Video Hotlist app integrate into OnePass? Will another new app aggregate web content? Is it finished, period? Nobody knows.


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## The Merg

randian said:


> Yes, but that OnePass won't be channel specific like it should.


It can't be channel specific as the show is not in the Guide yet.

- Merg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## L David Matheny

cherry ghost said:


> That's not true. You can even add a 1P for shows that aren't in the Guide at all in some cases.





randian said:


> Yes, but that OnePass won't be channel specific like it should.





The Merg said:


> It can't be channel specific as the show is not in the Guide yet.


We understand that current TiVo program code requires a show to be in the guide before a OnePass can be set to a specific channel, but why _must_ that be so? Isn't it most likely just an arbitrary restriction? Is there some good reason why TiVo couldn't allow us to specify any channel that's enabled in the channel list? Isn't this just another safeguard against abject stupidity?


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## randian

The Merg said:


> It can't be channel specific as the show is not in the Guide yet.


Not so, things that appear last in the guide can't be channel specific either. You see the same thing when all-channel OPs find a new match, but that match can't be used to set the specific channel for the OP. It's basically the same bug in a different guise.


----------



## JWhites

steinbch said:


> About a month ago at MWC there was a slightly tweaked HDUI being shown off care of Dave Zatz. Here's the link:
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/zviB0kwdnS/
> 
> Personally, the icons tweaks seem to be more modern and fit with the refreshed logo that is being rolled out over the next month.


I do like that, but judging by the fact they just updated the iOS and Android apps to match the color scheme of the HAXE UI I'm not sure the UI you listed will be coming any time soon. From what I'm guessing that UI might be ported onto special MSO equipment like VirginMedia and Vodafone's ONO use.

I've tried the new Android app and when I start a stream there's a spinning circle around a TiVo silhouette which I quite like and wish I'd see on the TiVo itself instead of the spinning "thinking" circle of blue dots currently being used.


----------



## JWhites

L David Matheny said:


> We understand that current TiVo program code requires a show to be in the guide before a OnePass can be set to a specific channel, but why _must_ that be so? Isn't it most likely just an arbitrary restriction? Is there some good reason why TiVo couldn't allow us to specify any channel that's enabled in the channel list? Isn't this just another safeguard against abject stupidity?


See I don't mind that, just as long as I can change the "any" in the 1P I already created once the program shows up in the guide to the actual channel. As it is now I have to delete the 1P and recreate it once the program shows back up in the guide. It's annoying when I'm creating new 1P's for shows whose season just ended for the following season for my mom. A good example would be "The Almighty Johnsons" which is typically on SciFi but I have to create the 1P as "all" for the time being until the program appears, if it hasn't been cancelled.
She just discovered how to use season passes, she's been going the old fashioned "program every night before 8PM via guide" route, so far we're up to 93 1P's and those tuners are getting a workout.

Another cool thing that TiVo should do is do some sort of warning when a program has been cancelled so 1P's that pertain to it and are no longer necessary can be deleted.


----------



## jcthorne

BigJimOutlaw said:


> All the Settings screens.
> 
> I could be wrong, but it seems like they're getting ready to purge legacy code. First Amazon, now web downloads, Showcases and anything else that's HME could be next which basically hasn't been touched since 2007.


That's an interesting thought. Just speculation but its possible the introduction of Plex is part of the grand scheme. The Plex infrastructure could replace much of what HME is or was intended for. So once Plex is available on the tivo, the Plex server infrastructure can provide a wide range of options. Perhaps even a reasonable replacement for the web videos....


----------



## The Merg

randian said:


> Not so, things that appear last in the guide can't be channel specific either. You see the same thing when all-channel OPs find a new match, but that match can't be used to set the specific channel for the OP. It's basically the same bug in a different guise.


I'm not following you here. Any time I've created a OnePass that is not in the Guide yet, it will create it for all channels. Once it shows up in the Guide, I've been able to change it to a specific channel if I so desired.

- Merg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The Merg

JWhites said:


> See I don't mind that, just as long as I can change the "any" in the 1P I already created once the program shows up in the guide to the actual channel. As it is now I have to delete the 1P and recreate it once the program shows back up in the guide. It's annoying when I'm creating new 1P's for shows whose season just ended for the following season for my mom. A good example would be "The Almighty Johnsons" which is typically on SciFi but I have to create the 1P as "all" for the time being until the program appears, if it hasn't been cancelled.
> She just discovered how to use season passes, she's been going the old fashioned "program every night before 8PM via guide" route, so far we're up to 93 1P's and those tuners are getting a workout.
> 
> Another cool thing that TiVo should do is do some sort of warning when a program has been cancelled so 1P's that pertain to it and are no longer necessary can be deleted.


Once it is in the Guide, you can change it to a specific channel. Just go to the Channel setting and hit the left or right arrow to select from among the channels the show is airing on.

As for a warning as to when a show is canceled, how it TiVo going to know that?

- Merg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## trip1eX

BigJimOutlaw said:


> There is some old plumbing in the Tivo code, for sure.
> 
> I think that because resources are so finite, their priority list is such that they will avoid doing something twice if they can help it. They will allow non-showstopper, legacy issues to fix themselves through eventual replacement.
> 
> For example, I have a hunch they are working on a UI refresh, which is why they're not spending a lot of time on conversions of SD screens or fixing that audio skip. Plus other things like the lack of coherent placement causing the VOD selection screen to be stuck in the Channels section. And notice how they're getting their ducks in a row to remove the ancient code that supported things like Amazon and web downloads.
> 
> Or maybe I'm completely talking out of my rear.


You're looking at the glass as too half-full. I think the reality is simpler. They have finite resources and just don't fix stuff that isn't a show stopper or highest on the priority list. End of story.


----------



## bradleys

jcthorne said:


> That's an interesting thought. Just speculation but its possible the introduction of Plex is part of the grand scheme. The Plex infrastructure could replace much of what HME is or was intended for. So once Plex is available on the tivo, the Plex server infrastructure can provide a wide range of options. Perhaps even a reasonable replacement for the web videos....


From what we have heard the Plex implementation is just a simple Opera store app - not even as nice as our community version built by member NTLORD.

I am very pessimistic at Plex ever being a high level app on TiVo. It is inherently an app of individualized content (Videos I personally own) as opposed to global content (videos everyone has access too). And TiVo so far doesn't do personalized content - even with the Vudu app.

Personalized content wouldn't be a trivial effort either. So, I think if we get a hacked together, Opera store, Plex app - that is going to be the extent of that integration.


----------



## sinanju

trip1eX said:


> You're looking at the glass as too half-full. I think the reality is simpler. They have finite resources and just don't fix stuff that isn't a show stopper or highest on the priority list. End of story.


Some see the glass as half full. Some see the glass as half empty. I see the glass as too big.

Seriously... while one or two trivial user experience problems can be overlooked, at some point, you're being nibbled to death by ducks. There is a recording transfer bug on my Roamio Pro that has been an issue since the capability first showed up on my Series 2 240. Over time, bugs like these accumulate and put a noticeable dent in the overall experience. Putting the new whizbang features aside for just one cycle and simply fixing bugs, small or large, would go a long way to making the product really sparkle. A spring cleaning, if you will. You know... "Sure, the kitchen looks nice, but when was the last time we got the dust bunnies off the fridge coils and really got into the corners around the stove with some ammonia?" It's not a big deal, but ignore that stuff long enough and it's a problem.


----------



## samccfl99

sinanju said:


> There are bugs that have been hanging on for many years and, sadly, across many platforms. TiVo has need to do a major bug-fix-only release for quite some time now -- get rid of all those niggling little problems that peck away at and nearly ruin the TiVo experience. However, they have shown absolutely zero interest in such an effort. Sometimes I get the feeling that not only do they not find these problems annoying, they find us annoying for noticing them.


i could write a book about tivo releases. i keep track of all releases AND groups of releases (LOL) since i got my roamio pro in 10-2013. look how long it took them to fix that stupid C133 and still it is sorta masked. and as for the people who said they have FINITE RESOURCES, what do they do with all the money from the boxes and subscriptions and lifetime? they dont have any satellites. all they have are internet servers. i do not know how many boxes there are out there, but definitely hundreds of thousands and maybe more. they are cheap, they have horrible program development managers and project leaders, etc. also IF they have Quality Assurance testers, they must be deaf and blind. yes i am bad! i really do know. many of their L2 people know who i am. i think they hate me....LOL. my IT experience is over 25 years in banking service bureaus...YOU CANNOT MAKE MISTAKES IN THAT AREA. so that is why i am so critical. i guess i am just a bee-otch...LOL. but i must say there are many very neat concepts in the tivo. the 2 sided guide is wonderful once u get used to it and i love all 6 tuners buffering always. so i do have a very few good things to say about them. unfortunately there is no where else to go for me. i live in a condo and have comcast basic in my maintenance. comcast does have a great internet, although i think they have been screwing around with the speed since the FCC thankfully decided to do the right thing about net neutrality. oh boy, i have gone off and wrote a novella. sorry guys.


----------



## L David Matheny

JWhites said:


> See I don't mind that, just as long as I can change the "any" in the 1P I already created once the program shows up in the guide to the actual channel.


I _do_ mind, because it perpetuates a shortcoming we had with season passes, which could only be set to a channel that had an upcoming episode. It means that instead of just editing the OnePass list at _our_ convenience to do things _our_ way, we're forced to come back repeatedly to check for an upcoming episode that will enable the desired channel to be specified. I would still like TiVo to explain why we can't be allowed to simply set the recording channel to any channel enabled in the channel list.



JWhites said:


> As it is now I have to delete the 1P and recreate it once the program shows back up in the guide. It's annoying when I'm creating new 1P's for shows whose season just ended for the following season for my mom. A good example would be "The Almighty Johnsons" which is typically on SciFi but I have to create the 1P as "all" for the time being until the program appears, if it hasn't been cancelled.


Why do you have to delete any 1P? As randian points out, there's some bug or programming clumsiness that keeps even TiVo's arbitrary restriction from working logically, since even a 1P that _does_ have a new upcoming episode may not allow that channel to be specified for a while (a day or two?), but eventually it seems to work. I don't know why there's a delay.


----------



## steinbch

JWhites said:


> I do like that, but judging by the fact they just updated the iOS and Android apps to match the color scheme of the HAXE UI I'm not sure the UI you listed will be coming any time soon. From what I'm guessing that UI might be ported onto special MSO equipment like VirginMedia and Vodafone's ONO use.
> 
> I've tried the new Android app and when I start a stream there's a spinning circle around a TiVo silhouette which I quite like and wish I'd see on the TiVo itself instead of the spinning "thinking" circle of blue dots currently being used.


I don't know...It looks like the only differences between the current UI and the one in this picture are the icons (and the swapped A/B/C colors due to different remotes). In my mind, the flat icons seem to really fit with the new color scheme in the iOS app (I haven't tried the Android one). Just looking around at the iOS app, everything has been switched over to a flat design/solid colors except for the icons that are related to the Now Playing screen (folders/NEW/colored dots). The gradients seem a little out of place to me.


----------



## jcthorne

bradleys said:


> From what we have heard the Plex implementation is just a simple Opera store app - not even as nice as our community version built by member NTLORD.
> 
> I am very pessimistic at Plex ever being a high level app on TiVo. It is inherently an app of individualized content (Videos I personally own) as opposed to global content (videos everyone has access too). And TiVo so far doesn't do personalized content - even with the Vudu app.
> 
> Personalized content wouldn't be a trivial effort either. So, I think if we get a hacked together, Opera store, Plex app - that is going to be the extent of that integration.


You may be right, but I hope not. But Plex replacing HME did seem an interesting idea with the retirement of old code that has long been ignored.

And what's to say that in a future release specific opera apps cannot have entries in the top level menus? Or heck, going for broke, user selected apps on the top level menu.....


----------



## WorldBandRadio

randian said:


> Yes, but that OnePass won't be channel specific like it should.


I've seen (and was able to repeat seeing) the Guide and Upcoming list both showing the availability of an episode of a show (with time, date and channel) while the part of the window just to the right of the Upcoming list says that episode is not available. On the same screen, the UI shows the episode as both available and unavailable!

On a daily basis I see episodes of shows on the Guide that do not show up on the Upcoming list.

There are a few data inconsistency bugs in the UI.


----------



## cherry ghost

Upcoming is usually behind by a day or two. 

Example

Game of Thrones S5E1 is now in my Guide and To Do. If I select it in the To Do and go to Upcoming it's not there. 

It's not that big of a deal as it will show up tomorrow or the next day.


----------



## JamieP

Dan203 said:


> The slides say that they're still using Flash for graphics and audio, so it looks like they pushed some of the lower level code of to native C++ but they're still using Flash for the UI.


I'm not sure I draw the same conclusions you did from the slides. Are you you referring to the use of Flash APIs via OpenFL/NME (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenFL) as "using Flash"?

OpenFL is an implementation of the (Haxe callable) flash API in Haxe. There is no Adobe flash player involved.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

cherry ghost said:


> Upcoming is usually behind by a day or two. ...


Although in one of the cases I mentioned, Upcoming was ahead of whatever was displayed on the right side of the screen.

It looks like a bug or two, where data are pulled from inconsistent sources and displayed side by side.

It's a shame TiVo can't even get its act together on something as simple as displaying data on a screen.


----------



## JoeKustra

cherry ghost said:


> Upcoming is usually behind by a day or two.
> 
> It's not that big of a deal as it will show up tomorrow or the next day.


Agreed. Or maybe the guide is ahead by a day or two.


----------



## Dan203

JamieP said:


> I'm not sure I draw the same conclusions you did from the slides. Are you you referring to the use of Flash APIs via OpenFL/NME (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenFL) as "using Flash"?
> 
> OpenFL is an implementation of the (Haxe callable) flash API in Haxe. There is no Adobe flash player involved.


OpenFL is only used for the javascript version. They use NME for the TiVo boxes. As I understand it NME still uses native Flash calls for the graphics engine. Which makes sense since the TiVo hardware has a Flah execution core and if they used OpenFL that core would be completely unused.

I think what Haxe/NME allowed them to do is move some of the lower level stuff, that is not directly related to drawing the graphics on screen, away from Flash and over to native C++ which is why we saw a performance improvement.


----------



## JamieP

Dan203 said:


> OpenFL is only used for the javascript version. They use NME for the TiVo boxes. As I understand it NME still uses native Flash calls for the graphics engine. Which makes sense since the TiVo hardware has a Flah execution core and if they used OpenFL that core would be completely unused.
> 
> ....


They mention on one slide that they built a new NME back-end on the DirectFB API. This doesn't sound like native flash calls to me.

I'll readily admit that I'm getting out of my realm of expertise and you may be a lot more familiar with these platforms than I am.


----------



## JWhites

The Merg said:


> Once it is in the Guide, you can change it to a specific channel. Just go to the Channel setting and hit the left or right arrow to select from among the channels the show is airing on.
> 
> As for a warning as to when a show is canceled, how it TiVo going to know that?
> 
> - Merg
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I dunno. Maybe Tribune Media which TiVo gets their program data from might have something, or maybe there's other avenues TiVo could use.


----------



## JWhites

steinbch said:


> I don't know...It looks like the only differences between the current UI and the one in this picture are the icons (and the swapped A/B/C colors due to different remotes). In my mind, the flat icons seem to really fit with the new color scheme in the iOS app (I haven't tried the Android one). Just looking around at the iOS app, everything has been switched over to a flat design/solid colors except for the icons that are related to the Now Playing screen (folders/NEW/colored dots). The gradients seem a little out of place to me.


The color scheme of both the iOS and Andriod apps are both dark blue which matches the UI on the Mini, Roamio, and Premiere post HAXE. So does the icons and solid yellow highlight bar. Virgin Media's TiVo UI is red and their branded TiVo app matches. I'm all for a black onyx UI on _anything_, believe me, but I don't think it'll come to the U.S. TiVo's for awhile if ever.


----------



## 59er

JWhites said:


> Another cool thing that TiVo should do is do some sort of warning when a program has been cancelled so 1P's that pertain to it and are no longer necessary can be deleted.


I totally disagree with this idea. Canceled shows often have burn-off episodes made available to stream (like SELFIE and MANHATTAN LOVE STORY did on Hulu+); canceled shows come back from the brink (FAMILY GUY, FUTURAMA, THE COMEBACK...).

You deletes your 1P, you takes your chances.


----------



## dswallow

59er said:


> I totally disagree with this idea. Canceled shows often have burn-off episodes made available to stream (like SELFIE and MANHATTAN LOVE STORY did on Hulu+); canceled shows come back from the brink (FAMILY GUY, FUTURAMA, THE COMEBACK...).
> 
> You deletes your 1P, you takes your chances.


It would be nice to have at least a little more info about the series, such as if it's ended. I have a number of season passes left over for shows that have ended normally, and I don't always know myself when I see them in the list if they're gone or still being produced, so I have to go double-check online somewhere. Just having that sort of info among the available show details would be nice.


----------



## JWhites

dswallow said:


> It would be nice to have at least a little more info about the series, such as if it's ended. I have a number of season passes left over for shows that have ended normally, and I don't always know myself when I see them in the list if they're gone or still being produced, so I have to go double-check online somewhere. Just having that sort of info among the available show details would be nice.


I agree. A lot of shows seem to end normally so there is no way to find out if a show has been cancelled until the broadcaster decides to make an announcement which is rare, leaving them in limbo. I've found out some of my favorite shows were cancelled years later because there was a missed announcement. One example was "Pound Puppies" which was apparently cancelled early last year but it still was in my OnePass list with "No upcoming episodes" which doesnt help much in this instance so I just thought the new season hadn't started yet. I've spent the better part of an hour the other day looking up all the shows from this past year that have a OnePass and not having much luck since many are "still on the bubble" as one website puts it. Honestly I would prefer the OnePass to automatically delete when the show has been cancelled. I think this could be done during a special event. A lot of broadcasters such as CBS, NBC, Fox, ABC, CW, TNT, and USA to name a few, run a special season preview promo which announces the new and returning shows for the upcoming season. Metadata or a code could be inserted to delete the cancelled shows' OnePasses like what is use for the "thumbs up to record" prompts during some tv show promo commercials.

Another option would be to perhaps insert metadata or code that would automatically delete the OnePass when a new show takes the time slot of the canceled show the following year. Coordination might be needed between the broadcaster and TiVo/Tribune Media though.

Yet another option would be perhaps instead of automatically deleting OnePasses, perhaps a message pop up on the OnePass screen where instead of it saying "No upcoming episodes" it would say "cancelled" or something so the user could make the informed decision to delete it on their own.


----------



## ej42137

Unfortunately Tribune Media doesn't enumerate which shows are cancelled and is unlikely to ever do so. Being cancelled is a fuzzy thing; sometimes there is an actual cancellation announcement, sometimes it goes on hiatus, sometimes it just doesn't come back and is never heard from again, sometimes it gets shopped around and sold to another network, and sometimes weird stuff happens. Consider Futurama; cancelled and uncancelled and cancelled again at Fox, a virtual season on Adult Swim, a real season on Cartoon Network, and even now there is talk of bringing it back again. How would you have One Pass handle Futurama? How would you expect Tribune Media to report it? Perhaps more important, how would you make a business case to Tribune Media for the adding of cancellation data to their reports?

Of course, I may not be qualified to hold an opinion in this matter; I still have a Season Pass for "Journeyman" on an S3, just in case.


----------



## realityboy

There's just no way for Tribune or Tivo to know if the show is cancelled or not. Sometimes there is an announcement, but more common, the show just finished its current season and is never heard from again. Maybe Tivo could add a flag next to OnePasses that showed that there has not been a new episode scheduled for the past year.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

ej42137 said:


> ... Being cancelled is a fuzzy thing; sometimes there is an actual cancellation announcement, sometimes it goes on hiatus, sometimes it just doesn't come back and is never heard from again, sometimes it gets shopped around and sold to another network, and sometimes weird stuff happens. ...


Sometimes the show starts as a limited-run mini-series that is popular enough to come back eventually as a regular series.

Was it cancelled, or did the mini-series just run its course?

Is the regular show the !same show! as far as scheduling goes, or is it completely different?


----------



## tomhorsley

They could just add a bit of information to the One Pass manager screens telling you the last time a new episode showed up, then you could decide to delete the One Pass when it hasn't had any new activity in a couple of years .


----------



## Dan203

JamieP said:


> They mention on one slide that they built a new NME back-end on the DirectFB API. This doesn't sound like native flash calls to me.
> 
> I'll readily admit that I'm getting out of my realm of expertise and you may be a lot more familiar with these platforms than I am.


This is not my area either, so you could be right. It just seems strange to me that they would choose a chipset specifically designed to run Flash for these units, and then abandon Flash completely in their code. Seems like a waste of potential processing power. Especially since Flash really is good at drawing vector based graphics. But I don't know enough about what they actually did to say for sure one way or the other. All I see is that on the slide it still lists "Flash API" under graphics, audio and input. If they completely rewrote the Flash API so that it doesn't actually use Flash then you may be right.


----------



## BlackBetty

Updates out yet?


----------



## mattydork

Mine updated but I don't know how to tell what updated if anything.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## ajwees41

mattydork said:


> Mine updated but I don't know how to tell what updated if anything.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


What version are you on?


----------



## mattydork

Just updated today to 20.4.7. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## ajwees41

mattydork said:


> Just updated today to 20.4.7.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Any release notes on reboot?


----------



## b-ball-fanatic

ajwees41 said:


> Any release notes on reboot?


I got no message or release notes when mine updated.


----------



## JWhites

Just updated my Roamio, Mini, and Premiere 4 a few minutes ago to 20.4.7. Can confirm the TiVo intro video now plays to it's entirety once again. Only thing I noticed that is different is under System Information, on the last page it says Flash Player Version @772285/release-mips on the Premiere and Flash Player Version @772285/release-mipsel on the Roamio and Mini. It used to say mainline3/2014.09.11-1305. I haven't noticed anything else yet.


----------



## cherry ghost

Did they bring back ungrouping in My Shows?


----------



## ggieseke

cherry ghost said:


> Did they bring back ungrouping in My Shows?


No, but they fixed the startup video.


----------



## Joe01880

samccfl99 said:


> This is my wish list (WHICH WILL NEVER HAPPEN DUE TO ABSOLUTELY NO VISION FROM TIVO DEVELOPMENT). frankly i do not believe there is anyone there anymore who actually knows how to modify the actual dvr code, but if there is, i would like 15 MIN TICS ALWAYS, ADD 4th FF/REW SPEED, MAKE A LAST-X SCREEN WHERE YOU CAN PICK FROM THE LAST X THINGS YOU WATCHED (COMCAST X1 SHOWS LAST 9) AND FINALLY FIX THE STUPID AUDIO CUTOUT GOING IN AND OUT OF TIVO CENTRAL. as to the last one, when you have an A/V, because of the FLASH programming they use in tivo central, the audio cutout causes a resync of the HDMI sound signal which can be anything from a split second to many seconds of no audio (i think they actually made it worse in 20.4.6+ 6a). guess i will have to start checking for Pending Restart. i dont like to wake up to find it rebooted, i would rather be there in case some disaster happened (like a few updates ago when it dumped all 119 Recently Deleted shows into My Shows causing havoc. they did fix that bug though later). the last priority update i got on 02-03 and the fixes came out on 03-10, so it is rather soon i think for 20.4.7, but who knows. at least they are trying to do more updates per year WHICH THEY SHOULD!!! FINALLY!!!


You don't like a lot, maybe build your own DVR or if you know of a better DVR please enlighten us.
I have/had no audio issues.

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk


----------



## h2oskierc

ggieseke said:


> No, but they fixed the startup video.


Thank goodness for that!


----------



## bradleys

I have already said - I think this release will be mostly backend work. Changes to allow Plex to work within the Opera Store, MPG4 framework for stream, VUDU for the Premiere line. That kind of stuff.

I would be surprised if we see any real functionality. 

But you never know, a new OTT video provider could pop up in a few days...


----------



## HarperVision

I posted this in another thread:

Has anyone checked the Opera Store to see if Plex is in there?


----------



## tootal2

What is the Opera store?


----------



## ajwees41

bradleys said:


> I have already said - I think this release will be mostly backend work. Changes to allow Plex to work within the Opera Store, MPG4 framework for stream, VUDU for the Premiere line. That kind of stuff.
> 
> I would be surprised if we see any real functionality.
> 
> But you never know, a new OTT video provider could pop up in a few days...


do they need to release new updates every time they add apps like vudu for premiere or iheart radio?


----------



## JoeKustra

tootal2 said:


> What is the Opera store?


TiVo Central, scroll to Apps & Games. It should be at the top on the right.

I guess you meant where, not what. So what is: http://www.operasoftware.com/


----------



## bradleys

ajwees41 said:


> do they need to release new updates every time they add apps like vudu for premiere or iheart radio?


For top level OTT apps, I believe the answer is yes... They do not show up right after the release, but they have to add all the integration logic.


----------



## tatergator1

bradleys said:


> ...MPG4 framework for stream.


Who's got 20.4.7 and wants to check the Stream software version.


----------



## bradleys

Unfortunately, the Stream update may come as a single push after all the TiVo boxes have all received the update. (Must have A software, before you can install B software)


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Integrated Stream software is still 20.4.6a.stream.USB-6


----------



## astrohip

cherry ghost said:


> Did they bring back ungrouping in My Shows?
> 
> 
> ggieseke said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, but they fixed the startup video.
Click to expand...

Do you know this for a fact, or are you being sarcastic?


----------



## foghorn2

foghorn2 said:


> They better fix the startup animation, my 5 year old cant wait!


 
Yeah! The startup and 0 key in central brings up the whole tivo cartoon!


----------



## Am_I_Evil

i thought i signed up pretty quickly on the list...but nothing for me yet...hopefully it'll pop up soon...


----------



## foghorn2

Am_I_Evil said:


> i thought i signed up pretty quickly on the list...but nothing for me yet...hopefully it'll pop up soon...


Evil,

Did you manually connect to the Tivo Service in Networking and get a pending restart?


----------



## Am_I_Evil

foghorn2 said:


> Evil,
> 
> Did you manually connect to the Tivo Service in Networking and get a pending restart?


i did connect...no pending restart....


----------



## JWhites

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Integrated Stream software is still 20.4.6a.stream.USB-6


Confirmed and stand alone Stream software is still 20.4.6.stream-01-6


----------



## chiguy50

bradleys said:


> I have already said - I think this release will be mostly backend work. Changes to allow Plex to work within the Opera Store, MPG4 framework for stream, *VUDU for the Premiere line*. That kind of stuff.
> 
> I would be surprised if we see any real functionality.
> 
> But you never know, a new OTT video provider could pop up in a few days...


No VUDU yet on my Premiere Elite running 20.4.7.


----------



## slowbiscuit

HarperVision said:


> I posted this in another thread:
> 
> Has anyone checked the Opera Store to see if Plex is in there?


Got 20.4.7 last night, Plex is not in the store. Don't see anything different at all between this release and 20.4.6 RC1. Download Manager is still in the menus but doesn't do anything of course, it was rumored to be removed with this release.


----------



## lparsons21

slowbiscuit said:


> Got 20.4.7 last night, Plex is not in the store. Don't see anything different at all between this release and 20.4.6 RC1. Download Manager is still in the menus but doesn't do anything of course, it was rumored to be removed with this release.


Me too, and like you I can't see anything different.


----------



## Ficman

Took forever to install this update on my rig, I am not seeing anything noticeable different on this version...


----------



## bmgoodman

Ficman said:


> Took forever to install this update on my rig, I am not seeing anything noticeable different on this version...


Well, I did notice that the "6" did change to a "7", so I'm sure it must be better. Somehow.


----------



## HarperVision

slowbiscuit said:


> Got 20.4.7 last night, Plex is not in the store. Don't see anything different at all between this release and 20.4.6 RC1. Download Manager is still in the menus but doesn't do anything of course, it was rumored to be removed with this release.


Thanks for checking. I don't think I've heard mention of whether maybe they added multiple One(Seasons)Passes back in for this release? I know it's a BIG bone of contention around here when they implemented 1P.

Is there an official "20.4.6 is now live" thread, or is this it?


----------



## tarheelblue32

HarperVision said:


> Is there an official "20.4.6 is now live" thread, or is this it?


This is pretty much it, at least until Margret posts the official release notes. Usually she's pretty good about posting them quickly, but maybe she is just busy. Though I do remember when the Haxe update came out, she intentionally held off on posting the release notes to see if people noticed the performance improvements without being told about them. Perhaps they are doing that with this release too, waiting to see if people notice the changes before telling us what they actually are.


----------



## ajwees41

http://tivoproduction.force.com/Sup...rticles/FAQ/TiVo-Software-Version-Information

Just found this not sure if it reliable, but might be like before where the apps show up after it's loaded not loaded with it,


----------



## bradleys

Well there you go!



> What's new in version 20.4.7
> 
> Software version 20.4.7 introduces the following features:
> 
> Added features/functionality
> 
> 
> The ability to Hide Adult Content through the Parental Controls settings.
> The VUDU App is now accessible on Premiere Series DVRs.
> The iHeart Radio App is available on Premiere Series and Roamio Series DVRs.
> The Plex App. is available on Premiere Series and Roamio Series DVRs.
> Security updates.
> 
> Features/functionality fixed in this release
> 
> Netflix credentials will persist through multiple logins.
> Issues with partial transfers between TiVo Desktop and the TiVo App for mobile devices.
> Issues with the list Guide view not displaying premium channels when filtering is enabled.


----------



## Mikeguy

They left out, "Return of the TiVo intro. movie"!


----------



## Mikeguy

> Features/functionality fixed in this release


And certainly, that's not the case: the Downloads Manager functionality has not been brought back . . . .


----------



## ajwees41

Mikeguy said:


> And certainly, that's not the case: the Downloads Manager functionality has not been brought back . . . .


What else was the download manager for besides web videos? Only thing I see in there on my premiere are tivo related


----------



## Aero 1

cant wait for Plex! anyone who has it, is it a native app? or the opera app?


----------



## ajwees41

Aero 1 said:


> cant wait for Plex! anyone who has it, is it a native app? or the opera app?


This http://streaming-tv.us/2014/12/15/plex-coming-to-tivo-via-opera-tv-store/ says opera store not sure don't have 20.4.7 yet


----------



## HarperVision

ajwees41 said:


> http://tivoproduction.force.com/Support/apex/SupportPortalArticleViewPage?artURL=/Support/articles/FAQ/TiVo-Software-Version-Information Just found this not sure if it reliable, but might be like before where the apps show up after it's loaded not loaded with it,


You should probably start the Official 20.4.7 Release notes thread since you're the one that discovered that nugget, Indy!


----------



## bradleys

I bet you won't see it until full release...


----------



## aaronwt

So I guess this update came out a few days ago? Been very busy at work. I need to see if all my TiVos downloaded it.


----------



## rainwater

aaronwt said:


> So I guess this update came out a few days ago? Been very busy at work. I need to see if all my TiVos downloaded it.


I guess it is rolling out slowly because none of my boxes received it yet and I put my Roamio Pro on the priority list pretty early.


----------



## Mikeguy

Seems so--but from the release notes, there doesn't seem to be much of a reason to anticipate the release (apart from, of course, the TiVo intro. video being fixed!  ).


----------



## Jed1

I signed up both my Premieres very early the day the update went live. Hope that I did not go into a black hole. 
Hell I have yet to receive Yahoo Screen yet. I have a ticket open with support that is now 4 days old and they never got back to me. When I check my ticket in My Support it tells me that the ticket number does not exist.


----------



## aaronwt

Jed1 said:


> I signed up both my Premieres very early the day the update went live. Hope that I did not go into a black hole.
> Hell I have yet to receive Yahoo Screen yet. I have a ticket open with support that is now 4 days old and they never got back to me. When I check my ticket in My Support it tells me that the ticket number does not exist.


I just checked and three of my four Minis got it. My ROamio Pro and Basic also got it. Even my Premiere got it. Although I thought this was supposed to allow Vudu on the Premieres? I didn't see it.


----------



## Jed1

aaronwt said:


> I just checked and three of my four Minis got it. My ROamio Pro and Basic also got it. Even my Premiere got it. Although I thought this was supposed to allow Vudu on the Premieres? I didn't see it.


I'll drop back and punt and contact Margret on Monday to see if I can at least get Yahoo Screen. Since I have to give her my TSN's I might as well ask for the 20.4.7 update.
I am not going to lose my cool like I did over Amazon Prime last fall.

Serenity Now!


----------



## krkaufman

aaronwt said:


> Although I thought this was supposed to allow Vudu on the Premieres? I didn't see it.


Maybe you need to check "Settings > Channels > My Video Providers" to see if it's available but unchecked?


----------



## bradleys

As I said in another thread, sometimes these apps are delayed a little.


----------



## 59er

It generally takes a day or two before the new apps appear.


----------



## foghorn2

Had to Double check the Parental Controls, last night I saw double DD's without entering a password on HBO


----------



## morac

I signed up for 20.4.7 the day the priority list went live. It hasn't downloaded on any of my boxes yet.


----------



## ajwees41

morac said:


> I signed up for 20.4.7 the day the priority list went live. It hasn't downloaded on any of my boxes yet.


Me too


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

There may have been another priority list black hole.

After the initial Thursday reports of downloads starting, I re-added them Thursday night and got the software on Friday. Don't know if it mattered, but it didn't hurt.


----------



## samccfl99

Joe01880 said:


> You don't like a lot, maybe build your own DVR or if you know of a better DVR please enlighten us.
> I have/had no audio issues.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk


what in my short list of modifications to the DVR itself do you think is too much to ask for? i think these are all straight forward common sense ideas that are and have been in many dvrs.

as for the audio dropout, many people have this. i did explain it completely. do you have an AV system hooked to your main viewing tivo using HDMI? can you figure out why when you go into the HD menu from live tv or from a recording that there is no audio delay, but they cant seem to figure out how to accomplish that when going in and out of the tivo central interface? when i had my XL4 and had to run in SD mode because it was too slow, that delay never happened. that is because there was no HD tivo central running in that mode. i of course love HD mode and was extremely happy when i got the Roamio Pro and at least was able to use HD mode, which is when i found out about the audio delay. i actually thought that if they were making a better box, this tivo central interface would have been onboard, but no.

as for the rest, do you like the slow FF/RR speed of the tivo? do you think that 15 minute skip tics (instead of the sometime crazy 30 and 60 minute tics created depending on the length of a recording) should always be there and if not, why not? do you like pressing enter many times to get back to something you were watching before you were interrupted and went to live tv temporarily? (although i did recently find out if you went to live tv and DID NOT move the pointer in My Shows that you can get right back to the last recording you were watching by hitting the top back arrow). i do not think i am asking that much of tivo.

i keep checking, but also i do not have 20.4.7, but as i see by the release notes put out, of course there is nothing really there, in my opinion of course. they keep putting on new apps. whats wrong with regular cable tv and recording shows? it would be nice if they put a browser app up. might try that. i do really like the streaming shows ability added to the OnePass. nice for people that have streaming services like Netflix. also love the 2 sided guide and of course the ever buffering six tuners. SEE, I DO LIKE SOME THINGS ABOUT THE TIVO, which is why i have one. oh and of course the 450 hours of HD.

*HAPPY HOLIDAY TO ALL, WHICHEVER ONE IT MAY BE!*


----------



## Mikeguy

samccfl99 said:


> *HAPPY HOLIDAY TO ALL, WHICHEVER ONE IT MAY BE!*


*Many thanks--and to you as well! *


----------



## ej42137

Merry Zombie Jesus Day!


----------



## JWhites

ej42137 said:


> Merry Zombie Jesus Day!


Ah so that's why SciiFi kept running zombie themed movies all weekend.


----------



## ajwees41

Finally pending restart


----------



## Kash76

Me too


----------



## RoyK

My roamio and my mini have both updated. I did NOT sign up for the priority update. So far as I can tell everything they broke in 20.4.6 is still broken.


----------



## Dan203

I have the new version on my Mini and I still had an issue with it losing all audio last night that required a reboot to fix.  I've seen this on both Minis and Roamios since the last update. Nothing I do, other then rebooting the device, fixes it. And it can't be the AVR or TV because I have seen it on two Minis connected directly to TVs of different brands. (one LG, one Vizio)


----------



## ajwees41

RoyK said:


> My roamio and my mini have both updated. I did NOT sign up for the priority update. So far as I can tell everything they broke in 20.4.6 is still broken.


mine just finally went to pending restart and I was on the priority list, so much for being on a priority list


----------



## mrizzo80

I think I signed up on the Priority List on Day 1 and haven't gotten it yet. I just re-submitted my TSN's.


----------



## HarperVision

I think maybe there was a TSN signup black hole because I didn't sign up right away and then finally got around to it once I saw the first couple of people say they saw it pending and I received the update within 48 hours. 

Or maybe they started updating from the bottom to the top of the list, as in newest to oldest? Doesn't really make sense, but who knows.


----------



## morac

I've signed up twice. Once within a few hours of the first post here and again earlier today. My box last made a connection earlier today and it's still not pending restart. If people who haven't signed up are getting it, there's definitely a black hole going on.


----------



## kbmb

morac said:


> I've signed up twice. Once within a few hours of the first post here and again earlier today. My box last made a connection earlier today and it's still not pending restart. If people who haven't signed up are getting it, there's definitely a black hole going on.


Same here. Signed both my boxes up first thing. Nothing. Did it again last week, still nothing.

Sure is dark in here 

-Kevin


----------



## Bytez

I didn't notice anything different. There's still the ancient audio drop while switching to tivo central during live tv.


----------



## morac

Still nothing after this morning's daily call.


----------



## samccfl99

Bytez said:


> I didn't notice anything different. There's still the ancient audio drop while switching to tivo central during live tv.


*it IS really annoying, isn't it????? i dont know if they will ever fix it. cant get it thru their heads that it does not happen when calling up the menu from either live tv or watching a recording. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....LOL*

i dont have .7 yet as many of us dont even though we are on the priority list. i keep checking. not that it much matters it seems.


----------



## samccfl99

kbmb said:


> Same here. Signed both my boxes up first thing. Nothing. Did it again last week, still nothing.
> 
> Sure is dark in here
> 
> -Kevin


me too. only got one roamio pro. maybe i will put in an email incident and see what the email idiots have to say....LOL. yep, i am bad....


----------



## kbmb

samccfl99 said:


> me too. only got one roamio pro. maybe i will put in an email incident and see what the email idiots have to say....LOL. yep, i am bad....


Any contact with Tivo support will just result in them telling you your signal is too hot 

(Because we all know.....the one constant with Tivo support, no matter what your real issue is.....is they will blame your signal.)

-Kevin


----------



## Jed1

Low and Behold when I checked my Premieres this morning I had pending restart on both of them. I actually tried to connect to the service last night around 8 PM but got nothing. My service connection was around 7 to 8 AM this morning.
I did contact Margret yesterday as I also did not have Yahoo Screen and TiVo support never responded to my email I sent a week ago, but I do not know if she did something or not as I have not had a reply back from her.

Anyhow I finally got Yahoo Screen and 20.4.7. Right now I only see they fixed the start up animation and changed the Flash Player version in the System Info menu.


----------



## filovirus

Got 20.4.7 on a mini last night, no time to check the other boxes, but Plex is not in the app store. Hope they add it soon.


----------



## morac

One of my boxes is finally pending restart this morning. Haven't checked the other. I had to re-enter my TSN to get it.

Edit: Other box also got it.


----------



## Mikeguy

Bytez said:


> I didn't notice anything different. There's still the ancient audio drop while switching to tivo central during live tv.


Ah, but now you can watch the full TiVo intro. movie! 

(But actually, I kinda prefer the TiVo intro. movie on my S2 TiVo, in which the little TiVo guy jumps from the movie at its end to the top of the TiVo Central screen on one's television--I always thought that this bridging of the gap between the movie and one's TiVo's home screen to be a clever one.)


----------



## kbmb

Both my boxes updated last night. 

-Kevin


----------



## morac

Mikeguy said:


> Ah, but now you can watch the full TiVo intro. movie!
> 
> (But actually, I kinda prefer the TiVo intro. movie on my S2 TiVo, in which the little TiVo guy jumps from the movie at its end to the top of the TiVo Central screen on one's television--I always thought that this bridging of the gap between the movie and one's TiVo's home screen to be a clever one.)


The thing is, that on the S2 the background was essentially a movie (it was a MPEG video) which is why the TiVo guy moved around in the background. The S3 and up don't use a movie background, so the jump would be jarring, just as it is currently when switching from full screen to the menus.


----------



## Am_I_Evil

i still haven't gotten the update...guess i signed up later than i thought...


----------



## morac

Am_I_Evil said:


> i still haven't gotten the update...guess i signed up later than i thought...


Try signing up again. I think it lost some of the signups. I signed up first day and didn't get it until today. I signed up again 2 days ago.


----------



## Mikeguy

morac said:


> The thing is, that on the S2 the background was essentially a movie (it was a MPEG video) which is why the TiVo guy moved around in the background. The S3 and up don't use a movie background, so the jump would be jarring, just as it is currently when switching from full screen to the menus.


Thanks--interesting to know. And that perhaps help explain the science fiction-y backdrops behind the S2 screens (the Jetsons-like tower, and the rolling balls)--I can't imagine the product development meeting when that idea was proposed.


----------



## Dan203

morac said:


> The thing is, that on the S2 the background was essentially a movie (it was a MPEG video) which is why the TiVo guy moved around in the background. The S3 and up don't use a movie background, so the jump would be jarring, just as it is currently when switching from full screen to the menus.


The S3 still used the movie backgrounds. Even the SDUI on the Premiere units still uses them. Only when they swicthed to the Flash/Haxe HDUI did they get rid of them, which is why they can support the little video window. The decoder is no longer busy decoding the backgrouns MPEG movie.


----------



## jdacats

I asked support about the update and recieved this today:



> Hello Joe,
> 
> Thank you for contacting TiVo Customer Support. I would be more than happy to help you with your questions.
> 
> Software version 20.4.7 began release approximately 04/07/15. Your TiVo Roamio boxes should currently have this update installed.
> 
> Please contact us again if you have any questions or concerns and we would be happy to help you. Thank you for choosing TiVo and have a great day!
> 
> Sincerely,
> Janeé


I've confirmed that both my Tivo Mini and Roamio Plus are updated to 20.4.7 and have been for a couple days, and.....

...still no Plex. *grrr*

Someone posted that it usually takes a couple days for the apps to update. Well here we go into day 3.

Trying not to get annoyed at Lucy yanking the football away at the last minute - again.

C'mon Tivo!


----------



## just4fn44

does anybody have plex yet on their tivo?


----------



## BlackBetty

No Plex here and I got the update on day one.


----------



## bradleys

I suggest that Plex will not be released to the Opera store until 20.4.7 is fully released. Why in the world would Tivo allow the Opera store to deploy Plex globally when it is going to fail for the bulk of tivo users? Has 20.4.7 even started general release yet?

Can you imagine all the angry support calls they would get over the broken service? Why wouldn't they just delay the app until 20.4.7 is at full release and save the cost of handling all those tickets, the bad customer experience and just the pure headache?

Top level apps it seems they can limit the deployment by TSN - but if this is really just an Opera store app, I am sure it either exists in the store or it doesn't.


----------



## gonzotek

bradleys said:


> I suggest that Plex will not be released to the Opera store until 20.4.7 is fully released. Why in the world would Tivo allow the Opera store to deploy Plex globally when it is going to fail for the bulk of tivo users? Has 20.4.7 even started general release yet?
> 
> Can you imagine all the angry support calls they would get over the broken service? Why wouldn't they just delay the app until 20.4.7 is at full release and save the cost of handling all those tickets, the bad customer experience and just the pure headache?
> 
> Top level apps it seems they can limit the deployment by TSN - but if this is really just an Opera store app, I am sure it either exists in the store or it doesn't.


I don't necessarily disagree that Plex will only become available after 20.4.7 is in wide deployment. But from the developer of the newly released Opera app Nasflix, we know that, at the very least, there can be _some_ difference in the Opera store dependent on TiVo model:


nasflix said:


> The app should be showing up for TiVo Roamio and TiVo mini v2 devices as of April 1st. I'm still working with Opera and TiVo to find out why it is not showing up for TiVo mini v1.


Maybe the units pull from different app source-lists, depending on their internal hardware, or maybe software version, or something account-based...or something else entirely . Whichever way it works, it seems there can be different Opera store experiences between different TiVos.


----------



## krkaufman

bradleys said:


> I suggest that Plex will not be released to the Opera store until 20.4.7 is fully released.


I would hope that the Opera Store would be capable of being fed the OS version and only display known-compatible apps, as it should also do for the hardware. Speculation...


----------



## bradleys

gonzotek said:


> I don't necessarily disagree that Plex will only become available after 20.4.7 is in wide deployment. But from the developer of the newly released Opera app Nasflix, we know that, at the very least, there can be _some_ difference in the Opera store dependent on TiVo model:
> Maybe the units pull from different app source-lists, depending on their internal hardware, or maybe software version, or something account-based...or something else entirely . Whichever way it works, it seems there can be different Opera store experiences between different TiVos.


I haven't been on my Premiere in the last 24 hours, but are you sure you cannot see Nasflix from the Premiere Opera Store? I don't think he said it wasn't accessible from the Store on the Premiere, he just said it didn't work with either the Premiere or the V1 Mini.


----------



## bradleys

krkaufman said:


> I would hope that the Opera Store would be capable of being fed the OS version and only display known-compatible apps, as it should also do for the hardware. Speculation...


I highly doubt it can - it is simply easier to hold apps until after an OS's general release. Testing is done from the Opera Testing portal, which is pretty insignificant to request and access. The app owner then just gives you an IP address and you can access any app for testing.

No, I stand by my contention that the Opera Store is not that flexible and that you won't see the Plex app until general release. And when you do see it, it will be universally accessible for everyone.

The only caveat to this opinion: Rumor has suggested that TiVo plans to promote this app to a higher level (In the Apps and Games menu along side Moviefone). If this rumor is true, then TiVo is fully capable of deploying the app based on release categories. (I don't really believe this rumor, but it is possible)


----------



## gonzotek

bradleys said:


> I haven't been on my Premiere in the last 24 hours, but are you sure you cannot see Nasflix from the Premiere Opera Store? I don't think he said it wasn't accessible from the Store on the Premiere, he just said it didn't work with either the Premiere or the V1 Mini.


Go re-read the quote (or original post from Nasflix). He said nothing about Premiere in his post, he only stated that it was not showing up on the V1 Mini and he was working with Tivo and Opera to find out why.


----------



## gonzotek

bradleys said:


> I highly doubt it can


The apps in the Opera store have access to the user-agent string(I've personally verified this previously), just like all websites/apps do. The Store itself should also have access to this info and could modify behavior accordingly.


----------



## bradleys

gonzotek said:


> Go re-read the quote (or original post from Nasflix). He said nothing about Premiere in his post, he only stated that it was not showing up on the V1 Mini and he was working with Tivo and Opera to find out why.


I will check the Premiere and the V1 Mini tonight to see if it is available. Opera's ability to deploy based on platform is holey different than validating an individual box's software version and then filtering content based on that version.

I stand by my assumptions. (If I have to eat my hat, I will. But, I think you can tell that I am pretty convinced )


----------



## bradleys

gonzotek said:


> The apps in the Opera store have access to the user-agent string(I've personally verified this previously), just like all websites/apps do. The Store itself should also have access to this info and could modify behavior accordingly.


Either I am wrong and it will show up before general release and I will be "hat in hand"... or I am not and I will sit smugly at my computer. 

After all my years watching TiVo releases and witnessing how unsophisticated the Opera store is - I just do not see the risk / reward

All that said, we havn't seen iHeartRadio yet either, and I do think that will start showing up soon. Frankly, I really hope the rumor that they promote this app outside of the Opera Store is true - that would be a huge improvement over having to access it via the Store.

Speaking of general release - we should be getting pretty close...


----------



## raqball

My Roamio still has not updated. I did get Yahoo Screen a few weeks ago though..


----------



## gonzotek

bradleys said:


> Either I am wrong and it will show up before general release and I will be "hat in hand"... or I am not and I will sit smugly at my computer.
> 
> After all my years watching TiVo releases and witnessing how unsophisticated the Opera store is - I just do not see the risk / reward


You can be right about it appearing only after general release (and I tend to agree with you on that bet) and still wrong about how the technology can handle sending different content to different platforms(which is my only point here). I also agree that, to the best of my knowledge, regular Opera store apps(and the Store itself) don't get access to TSNs, and thus could not modify for specific Tivos.


----------



## bradleys

gonzotek said:


> You can be right about it appearing only after general release (and I tend to agree with you on that bet) and still wrong about how the technology can handle sending different content to different platforms(which is my only point here). I also agree that, to the best of my knowledge, regular Opera store apps(and the Store itself) don't get access to TSNs, and thus could not modify for specific Tivos.


That is true. Frankly it is easy to sit from the sideline and make definitive statements with no consequences. 

Just my opinion


----------



## rainwater

bradleys said:


> I will check the Premiere and the V1 Mini tonight to see if it is available. Opera's ability to deploy based on platform is holey different than validating an individual box's software version and then filtering content based on that version.


If Opera doesn't allow you to deploy based on platform and platform capabilities (i.e. version), then it might be the worst and most unstable app store in history. It clearly has those capabilities. When the app will become available is unknown, but I highly doubt it is because of lack of functionality of the Opera store.


----------



## ntlord

Through my development of the hacked together plex app I released, I found that certain security permissions were stopping myplex from working. It is not surprising that Tivo might need to release an update to fix this. 

My guess is that if Tivo is calling out plex directly in its release notes, then it is not going to just be accessible through app store. I would say its pretty likely you will see a main menu item.


----------



## mbernste

If you look at the release notes on the TiVo web site, Plex is no longer listed.



> *Question/Answer 1	*
> What's new in version 20.4.7
> 
> Software version 20.4.7 introduces the following features:
> Added features/functionality
> 
> The ability to Hide Adult Content through the Parental Controls settings.
> The VUDU App is now accessible on Premiere Series DVRs.
> Security updates.
> 
> Features/functionality fixed in this release
> 
> Netflix credentials will persist through multiple logins.
> Issues with partial transfers between TiVo Desktop and the TiVo App for mobile devices.
> Issues with the list Guide view not displaying premium channels when filtering is enabled.
> 
> Additional support
> 
> If you need help with any issues pertaining to this software release, visit the Additional Support Documentation article.
> 
> *Question/Answer 2	*
> How to find the TiVo software version
> 
> From TiVo Central, select Settings & Messages > Account & System Information > System Information. The software version is listed on the Software Version line of the System Information screen.
> 
> NOTE: If the device is in Guided Setup, press the following sequence of buttons on the TiVo remote to display the software version: Thumbs Up, then Thumbs Down, then Pause, and then Play. To resume Guided Setup at the point you left off, press Select.
> 
> *Question/Answer 3	*
> How to update the software on your TiVo device
> 
> Software updates are automatically downloaded to your TiVo device by the TiVo service as they become available. After the download, the device must restart to install the software. The restart is usually scheduled for the middle of the night, to avoid interrupting scheduled recordings or live TV viewing.
> 
> To receive the update sooner, make two more manual service connections until Pending Restart is displayed as the Last Call Status. For instructions, see How do I connect to the TiVo service? If you are using a phone line to connect, be aware that the download can take a significant amount of time, during which you will not be able to receive phone calls or make outgoing calls. If you have voicemail that takes messages when your phone is busy, your callers should be able to leave messages.
> 
> *Question/Answer 4*
> Setting up a new or replacement TiVo device?
> 
> If you have a new device, your box will download a software update during Guided Setup and then will reboot to install the software. After the reboot, Guided Setup will resume automatically. It can take from 1-2 hours to complete this initial Guided Setup. If your cable provider is sending a technician to install your CableCARD, please make sure you set up your new TiVo device and complete Guided Setup before the installer arrives.
> 
> All other devices will receive the latest software on the second successful connection after completing Guided Setup. This is because when the device connects to the TiVo service during Guided Setup, only one day of program information is downloaded, to allow you to start using your TiVo device right away. The first connection after Guided Setup downloads the rest of the program guide data. Depending on the connection schedule, and whether the device is set up to use broadband or a phone line, it may take from one to several days before you see the new software features on your TiVo device.
> 
> Once the software is downloaded, the Last Status on the Phone and Network Connection screen will show Pending Restart; this indicates that the box will restart at approximately 2 AM to install the software. To speed up installation, you can restart it manually. For instructions, see How do I restart or powercycle the box?


----------



## JWhites

I couldn't care less about plex to be honest, I just want better performance with the core functions and to get rid of the thumbs up/thumbs down function.


----------



## gonzotek

mbernste said:


> If you look at the release notes on the TiVo web site, Plex is no longer listed.


Neither is iHeartRadio. Not sure what, if anything, that implies.


----------



## bradleys

JWhites said:


> I couldn't care less about plex to be honest, I just want better performance with the core functions and to get rid of the thumbs up/thumbs down function.


I am sure they will get right on that...


----------



## foghorn2

I'd rather have Kodi than Plex frankly. 
Then I could stream ISO's off the server.


----------



## jrtroo

Get rid of thumbs up/down? Suggestions are one of my favorite features, just turn them off if you don't like them.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

It looks like a menu item was added on 20.4.7.

When I am in the Guide, and I press the Record button, I used to land on the menu item where I would just press Select and the show would be recorded.

Now I am placed on a Watch It Now item on a menu, and I have to press the Down button to land on the Record option.

The Watch It Now option presents a bunch of streaming options for the show that I just said I wanted to record. Probably the Watch It Now function should be the second item on the list, and the Record item should be the first, as I did press the Record button to get there.

But, to me it looks like another step in TiVo's migration away from its DVR functionality and towards becoming yet another video streamer.


----------



## ajwees41

WorldBandRadio said:


> It looks like a menu item was added on 20.4.7.
> 
> When I am in the Guide, and I press the Record button, I used to land on the menu item where I would just press Select and the show would be recorded.
> 
> Now I am placed on a Watch It Now item on a menu, and I have to press the Down button to land on the Record option.
> 
> The Watch It Now option presents a bunch of streaming options for the show that I just said I wanted to record. Probably the Watch It Now function should be the second item on the list, and the Record item should be the first, as I did press the Record button to get there.
> 
> But, to me it looks like another step in TiVo's migration away from its DVR functionality and towards becoming yet another video streamer.


Well it could be offering a way to save space if the same program was on the streaming services provided you have a subscription.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

ajwees41 said:


> Well it could be offering a way to save space if the same program was on the streaming services provided you have a subscription.


It could be doing a lot of things.

However, I pressed the record button on the remote, so the Record option should be the one land on, and not some viewing option.

If it wants to offer me options to do other things besides record the program I just said I wanted to record, then those others can be items 2 through n on the menu.

POLA and all that... 

P.S. the main reason I run into this is that TiVo removed the "All" option from the menu choice for which shows to record. The options had been, "New, New and Repeats, All". Now the choices are just "New, New and Repeats". So I have to go manually adding shows from the guide....


----------



## WorldBandRadio

I found out what caused the issue I was seeing with trying to record from the Guide....

For some reason, _all the streaming providers were re-enabled after I had disabled them_.

Once I went through (Settings & Messages > Settings > Channels > My Video Providers) and deselected all the VoD providers again, the menus returned to normal.

So the root cause seems to be TiVo enabling all VoD sources (even ones I do not get) unbeknownst to me .


----------



## Selmabody

Looking to get a new unit from Tivo and wondered if it will have the update. Anyone have an idea?

Thanks!


----------



## HarperVision

Selmabody said:


> Looking to get a new unit from Tivo and wondered if it will have the update. Anyone have an idea? Thanks!


It doesn't really matter if it does or not because the first time that you run through guided setup it will update to the latest version when it calls home anyway.


----------



## Jed1

Selmabody said:


> Looking to get a new unit from Tivo and wondered if it will have the update. Anyone have an idea?
> 
> Thanks!


Most likely it will update to the 20.4.6 version. You will have to sign up the new unit on the Priority Update page in order to get the 20.4.7 update.

I had one of my Premiere units replaced during the 20.4.6 update and when my new unit finished guided setup it only went to 20.4.5c. I put the unit's TSN on the priority update page and two days later it received the update.


----------



## Keen

WorldBandRadio said:


> It looks like a menu item was added on 20.4.7.
> 
> When I am in the Guide, and I press the Record button, I used to land on the menu item where I would just press Select and the show would be recorded.
> 
> Now I am placed on a Watch It Now item on a menu, and I have to press the Down button to land on the Record option.
> 
> The Watch It Now option presents a bunch of streaming options for the show that I just said I wanted to record. Probably the Watch It Now function should be the second item on the list, and the Record item should be the first, as I did press the Record button to get there.
> 
> But, to me it looks like another step in TiVo's migration away from its DVR functionality and towards becoming yet another video streamer.


That happens under 20.4.6.


----------



## astrohip

WorldBandRadio said:


> It looks like a menu item was added on 20.4.7.
> 
> When I am in the Guide, and I press the Record button, I used to land on the menu item where I would just press Select and the show would be recorded.
> 
> Now I am placed on a Watch It Now item on a menu, and I have to press the Down button to land on the Record option.
> 
> The Watch It Now option presents a bunch of streaming options for the show that I just said I wanted to record. Probably the Watch It Now function should be the second item on the list, and the Record item should be the first, as I did press the Record button to get there.
> 
> But, to me it looks like another step in TiVo's migration away from its DVR functionality and towards becoming yet another video streamer.


Yes, definitely part of 20.4.6. And definitely a PITA.

When I hit Enter, I want to RECORD IT. I don't want to "watch it now from various sources". It takes what used to be a simple, two step process, and adds another step.

DirecTV has this down to an art. When you are in the guide, and hit Record, it says "ok I will record it". Boom. Done. And if you hit record twice, it makes it an SP.


----------



## L David Matheny

WorldBandRadio said:


> It looks like a menu item was added on 20.4.7.
> 
> When I am in the Guide, and I press the Record button, I used to land on the menu item where I would just press Select and the show would be recorded.
> 
> Now I am placed on a Watch It Now item on a menu, and I have to press the Down button to land on the Record option.
> 
> The Watch It Now option presents a bunch of streaming options for the show that I just said I wanted to record. Probably the Watch It Now function should be the second item on the list, and the Record item should be the first, as I did press the Record button to get there.
> 
> But, to me it looks like another step in TiVo's migration away from its DVR functionality and towards becoming yet another video streamer.


I hope you're wrong on that last point. Most new TVs and Blu-ray players these days have streaming capability. People buy DVRs to record things, not to stream. The extent to which TiVo forces us to stream content rather than recording it is the extent to which there's no need to buy a TiVo. I hope they can recognize that and work on some way to capture streaming content. That would restore the DVR functionality for which people are willing to pay.


----------



## b-ball-fanatic

WorldBandRadio said:


> But, to me it looks like another step in TiVo's migration away from its DVR functionality and towards becoming yet another video streamer.


I think you're spot on. It seems they're trying hard to position themselves as a streaming content provider in an increasingly crowded market. That their boxes also have DVR functionality is becoming more and more a "legacy" feature.


----------



## HarperVision

b-ball-fanatic said:


> I think you're spot on. It seems they're trying hard to position themselves as a streaming content provider in an increasingly crowded market. That their boxes also have DVR functionality is becoming more and more a "legacy" feature.


I actually see the built in DVR, even with more and more streaming options, as part of what puts it above its competition, be them streamers like the roku, FireTV, Chromecast or otherwise. All their dvr options like tablo and simpletv are kludges.

I do think they will overtake it and be the norm in the not too distant future though, so TiVo is trying to ensure its future. I've tried Vue and it's pretty impressive actually.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

L David Matheny said:


> I hope you're wrong on that last point. Most new TVs and Blu-ray players these days have streaming capability. People buy DVRs to record things, not to stream. ...


TiVo seems to be losing that understanding as they slowly remove features from the DVR portion of their product.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

astrohip said:


> Yes, definitely part of 20.4.6. And definitely a PITA.
> 
> When I hit Enter, I want to RECORD IT. I don't want to "watch it now from various sources". It takes what used to be a simple, two step process, and adds another step.
> 
> DirecTV has this down to an art. When you are in the guide, and hit Record, it says "ok I will record it". Boom. Done. And if you hit record twice, it makes it an SP.


DirecTV probably has someone on staff who knows how to design a user interface.


----------



## trip1eX

WorldBandRadio said:


> It looks like a menu item was added on 20.4.7.
> 
> When I am in the Guide, and I press the Record button, I used to land on the menu item where I would just press Select and the show would be recorded.
> 
> Now I am placed on a Watch It Now item on a menu, and I have to press the Down button to land on the Record option.
> 
> The Watch It Now option presents a bunch of streaming options for the show that I just said I wanted to record. Probably the Watch It Now function should be the second item on the list, and the Record item should be the first, as I did press the Record button to get there.
> 
> But, to me it looks like another step in TiVo's migration away from its DVR functionality and towards becoming yet another video streamer.


Tell me this isn't true. OR that you can turn it off. Anything.

Total opposite of what I hoped. I wanted them to streamline recording from the guide. Not make it more tedious.


----------



## rainwater

trip1eX said:


> Tell me this isn't true. OR that you can turn it off. Anything.
> 
> Total opposite of what I hoped. I wanted them to streamline recording from the guide. Not make it more tedious.


To be fair, I do not see this option at all. It may only appear if the item you are recording is already in My Shows.


----------



## moyekj

rainwater said:


> To be fair, I do not see this option at all. It may only appear if the item you are recording is already in My Shows.


 If the show is available from any of your enabled streaming providers then it will show that option, else it won't.


----------



## Diana Collins

WorldBandRadio said:


> DirecTV probably has someone on staff who knows how to design a user interface.


DirecTV users all complain about other idiosyncratic items in the UI.

I think everyone that uses ANY UI for a period of time will find things they don't like.

More generally, I agree with HV...I don't see Tivo deprecating DVR functionality, but rather enhancing it by integrating streaming options. I have long thought that a big missing feature from streaming services (and the one I think would accelerate the cord cutting trend) is to have a single integrated search facility that takes you the selected program automatically (sort of combining "canistreamit.com" with a Roku). Even better, it should offer targeted suggestions across all services. What TiVo is implementing with One Pass is definitely a step in that direction.

That said, I agree that the default selection should be one that is always available (and not dependent on what show you select and whether or not it has streaming options).


----------



## HerronScott

JWhites said:


> to get rid of the thumbs up/thumbs down function.


Why would you want that?

Scott


----------



## L David Matheny

Diana Collins said:


> I don't see Tivo deprecating DVR functionality, but rather enhancing it by integrating streaming options. I have long thought that a big missing feature from streaming services (and the one I think would accelerate the cord cutting trend) is to have a single integrated search facility that takes you the selected program automatically (sort of combining "canistreamit.com" with a Roku). Even better, it should offer targeted suggestions across all services. What TiVo is implementing with One Pass is definitely a step in that direction.


The big feature that TiVo seems to be abandoning is the ability to act as a Digital Video Recorder, which by definition is designed to record programs on some local storage medium for later viewing (time-shifting, commercial skipping, etc). Even for streaming services, do we really want everybody trying to stream during primetime? Integrated search is nice, but recording is fundamental. To the extent that a TiVo no longer records, I won't need a TiVo. They seem determined to cripple the main feature that makes their product valuable.


----------



## lparsons21

L David Matheny said:


> The big feature that TiVo seems to be abandoning is the ability to act as a Digital Video Recorder, which by definition is designed to record programs on some local storage medium for later viewing (time-shifting, commercial skipping, etc). Even for streaming services, do we really want everybody trying to stream during primetime? Integrated search is nice, but recording is fundamental. To the extent that a TiVo no longer records, I won't need a TiVo. They seem determined to cripple the main feature that makes their product valuable.


I'm new to Tivo and don't agree much with you at all. I didn't know when I ordered the Tivo that the streaming was so well integrated and basically took a flyer on getting one. The streaming integration is fantastic and allows me to binge watch or delay watching a show either from a recording I made from the cable service, or get it nearly instantly via streaming. And a big advantage of the streaming is it isn't taking up drive space.

I just want to be able to watch what I want to at the time I want to. I don't care if that is from a streaming service or from a local recording. Of course you have to have good internet service and I do. $50/month for 100/10 service with a 1Tb data cap. With that service level I could have more than a few things streaming in HD at the same time and the cost is reasonable.


----------



## trip1eX

oh maybe i've seen that streaming menu before when recording for the guide. Might have popped up once when I was going to record a movie in the past few months.

I mostly don't encounter it because the stuff I record is 99% not on streaming. 

I sort of have an idea of what is probably on streaming and what's not. 

It will be annoying if Tivo gets HBO streaming and then tells me that every HBO show I record is available via streaming. Doh! 

Mostly see the Tivo streaming as doomed. Tech companies will kill them at that stuff.


----------



## ej42137

Sooner or later streaming is going to replace broadcasting and cable as the customary way to consume video content. It will be delayed because cable companies are also ISPs and don't want to loose control; it will be delayed because of current bandwidth limitations; it will be delayed by the inertia of the consumer; but in the end streaming just makes more sense. With streaming, the providers of content can charge over and over for the same product, while the consumer can access content at his schedule and not that of some arbitrary programming schedule. The fact that broadcasting was popular at all was an accident of technological development which is in the process of being corrected. I love my Roamios and I expect that if TiVo comes up with a new and improved model I'll buy them too, but I also expect that one day I'll put my TiVos in a closet with my 57Kb modems and my IDE hard drives with a wistful smile.


----------



## astrohip

Diana Collins said:


> That said, I agree that the default selection should be one that is always available (and not dependent on what show you select and whether or not it has streaming options).


And that's my only complaint. I've actually started watching a few streaming shows, so I'm no longer the Luddite shaking my fist at these young-uns doing their streamin'. But I don't want this to be the first choice when I click on a show.


----------



## moyekj

ej42137 said:


> Sooner or later streaming is going to replace broadcasting and cable as the customary way to consume video content. It will be delayed because cable companies are also ISPs and don't want to loose control; it will be delayed because of current bandwidth limitations; it will be delayed by the inertia of the consumer; but in the end streaming just makes more sense. With streaming, the providers of content can charge over and over for the same product, while the consumer can access content at his schedule and not that of some arbitrary programming schedule. The fact that broadcasting was popular at all was an accident of technological development which is in the process of being corrected. I love my Roamios and I expect that if TiVo comes up with a new and improved model I'll buy them too, but I also expect that one day I'll put my TiVos in a closet with my 57Kb modems and my IDE hard drives with a wistful smile.


 Along with that you lose control to do things like skipping commercials and proper full speed FF/REW etc. I for one MUCH prefer the current content delivery method where I have full capability to skip commercials if I choose. Streaming only is no Panacea in my book though it does look to be inevitable at some point...


----------



## ej42137

moyekj said:


> Along with that you lose control to do things like skipping commercials and proper full speed FF/REW etc. I for one MUCH prefer the current content delivery method where I have full capability to skip commercials if I choose. Streaming only is no Panacea in my book though it does look to be inevitable at some point...


I completely agree with what you say; watching streaming that includes commercials is the worst, I agree; I never do it.

On the other hand, if you pay for streaming you get an entirely different experience. There aren't any commercials to skip on Amazon or Netflix; they also leave the bottom third clean of stupid chirons and bugs. If I had infinite money the only broadcast TV programs I'd watch would be purchased on Amazon.


----------



## Jed1

Vudu showed up on both of my Premieres late afternoon yesterday. This is one week after I got the 20.4.7 update. 
I never used this service before so I looked at the UltraViolet website and Vudu's website. I have a bunch of Blu ray movies that have the UV code in them so I may give this a try. I also see there is a "disc to digital' program on Vudu's website. It does not say if there is a charge to use this though.

I ran the speedtest on Vudu's site and I am pegged at the top so I get HDX. I played a couple of trailers and the video quality is very good. Navigation is very fast and there is no lag. The app launches very fast on the Premieres.

I have to say that I am quite pleased at both the Amazon Prime and Vudu apps on the Premieres. Now that my cable company finally got me moved over into the new hub on the 31st of March, my internet is now rock solid and does not drop to 1 meg or lower in the evening from 30 meg. The only thing is I have to watch my data use as I can only use 450GB/month.


----------



## trip1eX

ej42137 said:


> On the other hand, if you pay for streaming you get an entirely different experience. There aren't any commercials to skip on Amazon or Netflix; they also leave the bottom third clean of stupid chirons and bugs. If I had infinite money the only broadcast TV programs I'd watch would be purchased on Amazon.


Paying for streaming doesn't have anything to do with it. Hulu costs money and shows commercials. CBS. These new streaming tv packages like Sling TV cost money and have commercials.

IT's about the business model.


----------



## dswallow

TiVo is simply adapting. It used to be that programming was delivered only over the air or over-the-cable, and followed certain standards that allowed them to create receivers to store, buffer and display the content.

Now programming is being streamed. If/when technology permits (and we're talking more a digital rights management issue here, nowadays) you can be sure companies like TiVo would "stream" content into a local buffer/storage to provide full control over its playback to their customer, if they could. They'd need to ensure it couldn't be relocated to devices that wouldn't pay attention to appropriate digital rights, and they'd need to find a way to ensure when it was played it still was permitted to be viewed following those digital rights.

And we all pretty much know this is not a technical issue at all -- it's purely a paranoia/digital rights issue with the owners of the content; and they're discovering the streaming services give them more direct control over such things than broadcast or even cable does.


----------



## Kash76

I prefer the integration. Coming from DirecTV I don't have to bounce between two devices for many of these services.


----------



## L David Matheny

moyekj said:


> Along with that you lose control to do things like skipping commercials and proper full speed FF/REW etc. I for one MUCH prefer the current content delivery method where I have full capability to skip commercials if I choose. Streaming only is no Panacea in my book though it does look to be inevitable at some point...


I feel even more strongly about that. I'm willing to skip embedded commercials as necessary (as I must do now), but I _will not_ watch content with embedded commercials that can't be skipped. Period.



ej42137 said:


> I completely agree with what you say; watching streaming that includes commercials is the worst, I agree; I never do it.
> 
> On the other hand, if you pay for streaming you get an entirely different experience. There aren't any commercials to skip on Amazon or Netflix; they also leave the bottom third clean of stupid chirons and bugs. If I had infinite money the only broadcast TV programs I'd watch would be purchased on Amazon.


When I get broadband Internet fast enough for HD streaming, I will try paid commercial-free streaming. I have no objection in principle to paying, although there is always the question of value for money. But I still say I don't need a TiVo (or any DVR) to do real-time streaming. And if broadcast and cable TV go away, TiVo's integrated menus won't mean much in an all-streaming environment with plenty of cheap streaming boxes.


----------



## tomhorsley

What they need is a model where "broadcasters" and "networks" go away, viewers pay the producers directly, and advertisers pay the viewers .

If I want to spend my own money and skip the ads, I can do that. If I want to spend the advertiser's money I can watch their ads and get credit I can use to pay for shows.

Everybody wins! The second guessers at the network who always want to interfere with stories are gone forever, The broadcaster who want to replace good shows with garbage that makes more money in some "time slot" are gone forever. The sponsors no longer have to worry about backlash from sponsoring controversial shows since the only thing they sponsor now is individual viewers. And if I want to spend my own money to avoid ads, I can do that.


----------



## L David Matheny

tomhorsley said:


> What they need is a model where "broadcasters" and "networks" go away, viewers pay the producers directly, and advertisers pay the viewers .
> 
> If I want to spend my own money and skip the ads, I can do that. If I want to spend the advertiser's money I can watch their ads and get credit I can use to pay for shows.
> 
> Everybody wins! The second guessers at the network who always want to interfere with stories are gone forever, The broadcaster who want to replace good shows with garbage that makes more money in some "time slot" are gone forever. The sponsors no longer have to worry about backlash from sponsoring controversial shows since the only thing they sponsor now is individual viewers. And if I want to spend my own money to avoid ads, I can do that.


That's an interesting idea. Ads could be completely divorced from content. Or if advertisers still wish to be associated with certain content, each program which we purchase could present us with a list of products, we could select any whose ads we are willing to view, and in return for viewing them (without skipping) the content distributor (or producer) would deduct some amount from our cost and instead bill the advertiser(s) whose ad(s) were watched. The ads would be targeted (like Google's) to viewers who have expressed some interest in the product, which is better for the advertisers. I like it, and it might be doable.


----------



## ej42137

trip1eX said:


> Paying for streaming doesn't have anything to do with it. Hulu costs money and shows commercials. CBS. These new streaming tv packages like Sling TV cost money and have commercials.
> 
> IT's about the business model.


Geez. So why watch them? I didn't even consider these, they're the worst of both worlds. My point was if you are willing to pay you *can* get a better experience. Paying doesn't insure that the experience will be better, of course; your own good taste and sense must be applied when you make your viewing choices. If you spend money on Amazon Prime to watch "Under the Dome" you get what you deserve!


----------



## aaronwt

hmm... I just checked the Mini in my bedroom and it still has not been updated to 20.4.7.

All my other TiVo were updated right away. And I had re-entered the TSN for that Mini a couple of times. I'm surprised it still has not been updated. Fortunately the Mini in my Bedroom is my least used TiVo.


----------



## samccfl99

i still have not gotten 20.4.7 yet on my one and only roamio pro even though i have been on the priority list since 03/28. i even made a case with the email idiots and asked about it. they replied they would look into it and immediately closed the case (no surprise ). maybe they have me blacklisted because i had applied to be a beta tester (for kicks to see what it was all about knowing i would never do it) and when they finally emailed to ask me if i wanted to participate (took a long time, maybe 8 months) and read it and it did not even say what they wanted to test except "a new tivo screen" (i am hoping that it is the LAST X screen i keep complaining about like the X1 has). FYI, once they download the beta, thats all folks. no way to back it out. would i trust them? HA! also they said there would be a "little gift" at the end of the beta which could be many months. of course they did not say what it was. i could only imagine, maybe a free Lifetime subscription?...LOL. dont think i would do it even for that. me and my tivo are bonded...LOL. just thought some of you would like to hear this amusing story. oh yeah, and i sent them a nice long email telling them why i could not do it. they just replied thank you. THEN THEY PROBABLY BLACKLISTED ME!!! LOLOLOL :up::down:


----------



## dmbpj

My TiVo Mini updated to 20.4.7 and I lost the bar going across the top in all menus that had suggestions, etc. in squares.

This happen to anyone else?

FYI - My Roamio has also update to 20.4.7


----------



## ej42137

dmbpj said:


> My TiVo Mini updated to 20.4.7 and I lost the bar going across the top in all menus that had suggestions, etc. in squares.
> 
> This happen to anyone else?
> 
> FYI - My Roamio has also update to 20.4.7


Yes, I saw this on my mini. I've also seen it before on my Roamios when a release or some other event clears out things. It always comes back in a little while, unless you Internet connection is down I'll bet yours is now back too.


----------



## dmbpj

Thanks for the reply, but my Discovery bar has been out for 3+ days.


----------



## samccfl99

ej42137 said:


> Yes, I saw this on my mini. I've also seen it before on my Roamios when a release or some other event clears out things. It always comes back in a little while, unless you Internet connection is down I'll bet yours is now back too.


I requested a "FEATURE REQUEST" for an option to be able to get rid of those stupid useless tiles on my Roamio Pro forever ago. of course they do not like user options as proven by the poor few that they do have, even after all this time (oh yes, they did add a useless power saving option lately, should have been working on screen savers and many other things). do you know what it does to the Tivo? MAKES THE WHEEL SPIN SOMETIMES, THAT'S WHAT IT DOES!!!  it is constantly interfering with its operation because their priority is upside down. SOME internet operations should be a low priority and they refuse to fix it. sometimes, especially when they had all those horrible C133 problems it took them many updates to fix (or hide if you ask me) and it got so bad i had to unplug the box from the network. THAT FIXED IT UP GOOD...:up::up::up:

cant wait to see your reply on this one...


----------



## bradleys

I love when people submit "Feature Requests" and think their idea is sooo obvious...

Meh

(TiVo already has a screen saver... Live TV for regular TiVo's and an actual screen saver on the Mini where live TV isn't an option)


----------



## employee3

Anyone else having this problem with 20.4.7 with the guide showing all channels even channels that are not checked in "Channels I Receive"?

I'm on Cox San Diego if that makes a difference. This is going to confuse the hell out of my Mother-in-law and kids as they will inevitably select a SD channel to record programs and throw my brain for a loop.


----------



## alleybj

I signed up day one but still nothing on my Roamio basic.


----------



## pfiagra

alleybj said:


> I signed up day one but still nothing on my Roamio basic.


Re-enter it again. I also signed up early and didn't receive it, but it came within a few days of re-entering my TSN for the update.

On a side note: I haven't seen any new functionality on my Roamio Basic since receiving the 20.4.7 update, which was over a week ago.


----------



## bradleys

pfiagra said:


> Re-enter it again. I also signed up early and didn't receive it, but it came within a few days of re-entering my TSN for the update.
> 
> On a side note: I haven't seen any new functionality on my Roamio Basic since receiving the 20.4.7 update, which was over a week ago.


Based on release notes, this was mostly back end work. They did add the ability to hide content in my showing (and channels, I believe) using parental controls.


----------



## morac

dmbpj said:


> Thanks for the reply, but my Discovery bar has been out for 3+ days.


You can try resetting the HD UI (Thumbs down, Thumbs up, play, play).


----------



## ej42137

employee3 said:


> Anyone else having this problem with 20.4.7 with the guide showing all channels even channels that are not checked in "Channels I Receive"?
> 
> I'm on Cox San Diego if that makes a difference. This is going to confuse the hell out of my Mother-in-law and kids as they will inevitably select a SD channel to record programs and throw my brain for a loop.


Works for me. Are you sure you set *A* Channels: _Favorites_ in the guide?


----------



## ajwees41

bradleys said:


> Based on release notes, this was mostly back end work. They did add the ability to hide content in my showing (and channels, I believe) using parental controls.


was supposedmto bring 
Iheart Radio and plex and VUDU(premiere) and only VUDU launched on Premiere the rest were bug fixes


----------



## samccfl99

bradleys said:


> I love when people submit "Feature Requests" and think their idea is sooo obvious...
> 
> Meh
> 
> (TiVo already has a screen saver... Live TV for regular TiVo's and an actual screen saver on the Mini where live TV isn't an option)


really now. i do not know what tivo you have. i have a roamio pro on 20.4.6a. then please tell me where this supposed screen saver is. i mean if you pause a recording, it will sit there FOREVER. if you pause a live buffer, then when it fills the current program it will just start playing from the beginning of the buffer. when you are in tivo central for any length of time and not doing anything, then you get kicked out and are back where you were. so again, where is this screen saver in the "dozens" of user options available??? now if you want to run the pandora app, THAT HAS ITS OWN screen saver. i dont mean to be nasty. i would just like to know what you are referring to and if there is one, please tell me how to get to it (because every time we get a ridiculous update i check ALL the options) and then i apologize in advance.

as far as "feature requests", yes i do have many ideas and send them in and have talked to the person who used to be in executive customer support. they call that dept ERT and Teresa was the person, a wonderful person, in fact, but unfortunately she has now been moved to L2 support (another laugh) who did sit in on those meetings they have about probably many stupid ideas from the Feedback Page that could never be done. how long have you had a dvr? i have had many since maybe the late 90's, maybe earlier. comcast, dish, direct. i have been around a long time and have seen alot. even comcast's old motorolas had the floating screen saver. but its not one of my top priorities, it was just an example. the only real reason i got the tivo was because of the 450 hours of hd storage which comcast could not provide nor could they provide the ability to use an external HD.

oh and by the way, i just called tech support to ask them why i signed up on 03/28 (and again later) and have not gotten it yet and people started to get 20.4.7 (not that there is ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING USEFUL IN IT) and also people started to report here on 04/02 that some have started to get it and of course the useless answer was that they have no control over it or anyway to check. THAT'S TIVO!!!!

but again i always end with "but i love my tivo", just not tivo the company.

p.s. did you like the one "feature request" that they did take and do? the one i am talking about is that now you have to confirm a delete and that never was before. of course then i found out about the function of the wonderful CLEAR button. love it. WHO KNEW???


----------



## bradleys

ajwees41 said:


> was supposedmto bring
> Iheart Radio and plex and VUDU(premiere) and only VUDU launched on Premiere the rest were bug fixes


Yes they were... I started a thread discussing the rumor that the applications had been removed. I don't expect to see it on this release, do you?

My point stands, TiVo didn't write iHeart Radio or Plex, TiVo only hosts them. They were supposedly implementing a few service layer changes to remediate Plex communications issues in this release - we can assume that in final beta testing they identified some problems.


----------



## bradleys

@samccfl99

A screen saver on a TiVo is a terrible idea and I will call it out as a bad idea every time i hear it - simply because it keeps getting brought up by people with no more design sense than a rock. It is not obvious, it not a pending, is not an oversight.

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO SCREEN SAVER


----------



## aaronwt

I don't need to confirm a delete. It's the same as before for me. I hit the clearance button and the title is deleted.


----------



## namwoljr

I see you have a clear position, but I don't see any reasoning for your position. Why is having an option for a screen saver a bad thing exactly? I take it you've never owned a plasma TV.



bradleys said:


> @samccfl99
> 
> A screen saver on a TiVo is a terrible idea and I will call it out as a bad idea every time i hear it - simply because it keeps getting brought up by people with no more design sense than a rock. It is not obvious, it not a pending, is not an oversight.
> 
> NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO SCREEN SAVER


----------



## ADG

namwoljr said:


> I see you have a clear position, but I don't see any reasoning for your position. Why is having an option for a screen saver a bad thing exactly? I take it you've never owned a plasma TV.


If plasma tv's suffer from burn-in then the plasma tv, not TiVo, should have a screen saver option.


----------



## namwoljr

That would require the TV to be able to know what the Tivo is up to. How would the TV know if the Tivo is stuck on a static screen? HDMI-CEC? ARC? By your reasoning, no peripheral device should have a screen saver, but many do (Apple TV, Roku, Fire TV just off the top of my head). So why not Tivo?



ADG said:


> If plasma tv's suffer from burn-in then the plasma tv, not TiVo, should have a screen saver option.


----------



## trip1eX

Minis have some sort of screen saver.


----------



## randian

aaronwt said:


> I don't need to confirm a delete. It's the same as before for me. I hit the clearance button and the title is deleted.


One of the (IMO bad) changes made in 20.4.6 is that you now need to confirm a delete when you're in the show's individual entry. You don't need to confirm if you're in Now Playing.


----------



## samccfl99

namwoljr said:


> That would require the TV to be able to know what the Tivo is up to. How would the TV know if the Tivo is stuck on a static screen? HDMI-CEC? ARC? By your reasoning, no peripheral device should have a screen saver, but many do (Apple TV, Roku, Fire TV just off the top of my head). So why not Tivo?


thank you for defending my position. i do not hear ANY explanation from this person as to why not. Tivo development management in CA makes horrible decisions and creates even worse code.  sorry.

*still no 20.4.7, not that there is ANYTHING USEFUL in it.*


----------



## bradleys

Here is your response sam...



namwoljr said:


> That would require the TV to be able to know what the Tivo is up to. How would the TV know if the Tivo is stuck on a static screen? HDMI-CEC? ARC? By your reasoning, no peripheral device should have a screen saver, but many do (Apple TV, Roku, Fire TV just off the top of my head). So why not Tivo?


TiVo's never get stuck on a static screen... The one and only possible use-case is a paused recording*. Every other use-case; say you left it sitting on any menu screen, the TiVo will simply revert back to whatever is playing in the background.

The Mini, since it doesn't automatically have a tuner and thus something playing in the background at all times - *does have a screen saver.*

Vudu has a screen saver, Amazon has a screen saver (**netfix hasn't had one in a long time)

Apple TV, Roku, Fire TV and everything off the top of your head doesn't have a tuner, *and just like the Mini* - needs a screen saver.

A main TiVo does not need a screen saver. Every single situation where a screen saver is used in one of those streaming box situations - TiVo simply reverts back to* Live TV*.

*Live TV is TiVo's screen saver!*

* The last thing I want is *****ing an moaning about how much time elapses before a pause screen saver kicks in
** Netlix doesn't have a screen saver on any of the streaming devices (It was removed during a major app upgrade in 2013)


----------



## bradleys

samccfl99 said:


> *still no 20.4.7, not that there is ANYTHING USEFUL in it.*


TiVo had a pretty big release just a couple months ago... This was never expected to be a massive release - just some back-end changes to support a few new OTT apps and some welcome improvements in Parental Controls.

Now - we didn't get the OTT apps. Something went wrong, likely technical issues found during the last few days of beta testing.

(Although, I have a theory that it was something else related to security that pushed the release back)


----------



## mbernste

bradleys said:


> TiVo had a pretty big release just a couple months ago... This was never expected to be a massive release


On the bright side, we did get one very noticeable fix, even if it is a little silly and that's the boot up animation (aka pressing 0 from TiVo Central). It no longer stops after 5 seconds.


----------



## krkaufman

bradleys said:


> *Live TV is TiVo's screen saver!*


Sure. But, coming from another DVR world, my users grew accustomed to having a family photos slideshow as their screensaver. I was hoping to get that back for them.


----------



## b-ball-fanatic

bradleys said:


> A main TiVo does not need a screen saver. Every single situation where a screen saver is used in one of those streaming box situations - TiVo simply reverts back to* Live TV*.
> 
> *Live TV is TiVo's screen saver!*


:up: Bingo. Screensavers make _no _sense in a tuner-based device, where there's always an active content feed. I honestly don't even get how this is a discussion.


----------



## bradleys

krkaufman said:


> Sure. But, coming from another DVR world, my users grew accustomed to having a family photos slideshow as their screensaver. I was hoping to get that back for them.


Windows Media Center has a Screen Saver simply because a tuner is an option, not the default design.

I don't know of a single cable box that has a screen saver - and if one exists, I would question the design decision, not emulate it.

TiVo has an app that you can use to display photos if that is what you would like.


----------



## ej42137

mbernste said:


> On the bright side, we did get one very noticeable fix, even if it is a little silly and that's the boot up animation (aka pressing 0 from TiVo Central). It no longer stops after 5 seconds.


Strangely enough, I notice that on my Premiere the boot animation is still short, while my Roamios and Mini play the full video now.


----------



## RoyK

b-ball-fanatic said:


> :up: Bingo. Screensavers make _no _sense in a tuner-based device, where there's always an active content feed. I honestly don't even get how this is a discussion.


Personally I intensely dislike that the TiVo times out to live TV like it does. It can be very jarring when some loud random program (usually in the middle of a commercial) storms loudly into a quiet living room unexpectedly. I'd much rather have it just stay where it's left or, optionally, a silent screensaver selectable by those users who prefer/need one..

I inhibit the timeout by always leaving my TiVo in a paused state if I walk away from it.


----------



## krkaufman

bradleys said:


> I don't know of a single cable box that has a screen saver - and if one exists, I would question the design decision, not emulate it.


ReplayTV does/did, and the users I know liked it a LOT and miss its absence in the TiVo -- so it would seem to have been a good design decision, at least for this small subset of users. YMMV, and obviously does.



> TiVo has an app that you can use to display photos if that is what you would like.


Yeah, but not the same thing.


----------



## bradleys

RoyK said:


> Personally I intensely dislike that the TiVo times out to live TV like it does. It can be very jarring when some loud random program (usually in the middle of a commercial) storms loudly into a quiet living room unexpectedly. I'd much rather have it just stay where it's left or, optionally, a silent screensaver selectable by those users who prefer/need one..
> 
> I inhibit the timeout by always leaving my TiVo in a paused state if I walk away from it.


If you pause Live TV the pause will only last as long as the available buffer - maximum of 30 minutes. If you Pause a recorded show, it will stay paused.

Have you ever turned off your TV while still in a TiVo menu? Come back to your TV later that evening, turn it on and you are presented with Live TV - not stuck on that old menu.

Can you imagine the complaints if every-time you turned your TV on it was sitting on the last menu you used? Or the "do you want to keep or delete" dialog were still up?

Even worse, turn on your TV and the first thing you see is a screen saver?

This is the best design for the available use cases - your timid nature aside.


----------



## Mikeguy

RoyK said:


> Personally I intensely dislike that the TiVo times out to live TV like it does. It can be very jarring when some loud random program (usually in the middle of a commercial) storms loudly into a quiet living room unexpectedly. I'd much rather have it just stay where it's left or, optionally, a silent screensaver selectable by those users who prefer/need one..
> 
> I inhibit the timeout by always leaving my TiVo in a paused state if I walk away from it.


^ +1. And the TiVo especially seems to like to time out when I'm in the midst of an important telephone call . . . .


----------



## krkaufman

RoyK said:


> Personally I intensely dislike that the TiVo times out to live TV like it does. It can be *very jarring when some loud random program (usually in the middle of a commercial) storms loudly into a quiet living room unexpectedly*.


Precisely why I consider this "Live TV Fallback" a horrendous design decision -- aside from it being a peculiar approach for a product marketing itself as something to free the user from the live TV confines of the past.

I'd think it more in line with the product's raison d'être if it were to, in lieu of some other screensaver, cycle through a reminder of recently watched episodes, waiting for completion, or the next in the series. Though I think a simple photo slideshow would be simpler.


----------



## bradleys

krkaufman said:


> ReplayTV does/did, and the users I know liked it a LOT and miss its absence in the TiVo -- so it would seem to have been a good design decision, at least for this small subset of users. YMMV, and obviously does.
> 
> Yeah, but not the same thing.


ReplayTV had a lot of questionable design options.

All that said, I think I have made my point... TiVo has a screensaver. People who continue to ask for a screensaver do it from a lack of understanding how the device is designed and works - not from a position of "need"

All the "but, but, buts..." in the world isn't going to change that fact and isn't going to change TiVo's mind on this particular design decision.

This conversation started because @Sam complained that TiVo should be "working on features it lacks" and I will restate:

People who continue to ask for a screensaver do it from a lack of understanding how the device is designed and works - not from a position of "need"


----------



## RoyK

bradleys said:


> ReplayTV had a lot of questionable design options.
> 
> All that said, I think I have made my point... TiVo has a screensaver. People who continue to ask for a screensaver do it from a lack of understanding how the device is designed - not from a position of "need"
> 
> All the "but, but, buts..." in the world isn't going to change that fact and isn't going to change TiVo's mind on this particular design decision.


TiVo has a poor excuse for a screensaver that works only under certain conditions (stopped in the menus) and not in others (paused for an extended period).


----------



## bradleys

RoyK said:


> TiVo has a poor excuse for a screensaver that works only under certain conditions (stopped in the menus) and not in others (paused for an extended period).


I would have no problem with TiVo adding a 30 minute "cancel" to a paused recording that mimics the existing 30 minute buffer resume.

That is a reasonable request...

I am not sure this single use case qualifies as "works only under certain conditions"


----------



## RoyK

bradleys said:


> I would have no problem with TiVo adding a 30 minute "cancel" to a paused recording that mimics the existing 30 minute buffer resume.
> 
> That is a reasonable request...
> 
> I am not sure this single use case qualifies as "works only under certain conditions"


Obviously you just don't get it.


----------



## bradleys

RoyK said:


> Obviously you just don't get it.



Obviously, I think it is an uninformed and unnecessary request. 
Obviously, I have proven the contention that TiVo doesn't have a screen saver is false. 
Obviously, this isn't a missing feature, or something "maybe" they will give us in the future....



> I would have no problem with TiVo adding a 30 minute "cancel" to a paused recording that mimics the existing 30 minute buffer resume.


Rethinking this - they wouldn't want to "cancel" the pause, they would want to drop to live TV. That way the existing features will allow you to resume directly from your pause point.


----------



## krkaufman

RoyK said:


> Obviously you just don't get it.


"


----------



## krkaufman

bradleys said:


> Obviously, I think it is an uninformed and unnecessary request.


I wouldn't argue that the priority of a screensaver is well down on my list of what I feel TiVo needs to address, but it is inarguable that the difference in behavior between the Mini and DVRs on this point creates a disjoint in the user experience and therefore is an unfavorable design/implementation.

It is also a matter of opinion, not fact, from a user standpoint, and a matter of necessity/practicality, not godly omniscience, from the standpoint of the vendor.


----------



## krkaufman

bradleys said:


> [*]Obviously, I have proven the contention that TiVo doesn't have a screen saver is false.


Well, it depends on how loosely 'screensaver' is defined. By the traditional interpretation that after some triggering event the screen either dims or displays some moving pixels, and then reverts to the previous screen, in its unchanged state, upon any user interaction, then TiVo does not have a screensaver -- even if it has a mechanism, under just the right circumstances, to save one's screen from burn-in.


----------



## bradleys

So now the TiVo Mini experience is a failure because the main TiVo doesn't have a screen saver?

You guys will argue anything before admitting that maybe, just maybe you are a little wrong headed about this.

Doesn't matter - keep complaining. It isn't coming and now you at least have been informed as to why.



> A screensaver (or screen saver) is a computer program that blanks the screen or fills it with moving images or patterns when the computer is not in use.


Live TV = moving images


----------



## RoyK

bradleys said:


> So now the TiVo Mini experience is a failure because the main TiVo doesn't have a screen saver?
> 
> You guys will argue anything before admitting that maybe, just maybe you are a little wrong headed about this.
> 
> Doesn't matter - keep complaining. It isn't coming and now you at least have been informed as to why.
> 
> Live TV = moving images


----------



## krkaufman

bradleys said:


> Live TV = moving images


Yes, as I said, depending on how loosely one defines screensaver. And note that "moving images" doesn't also necessarily mean "with accompanying surround sound audio."

Personally, I wouldn't like my Windows screensaver too much, if every time I came back to my computer after a meeting, I found it playing some YouTube video or some random video off my hard drive, including audio, with my previous desktop/active application state lost. You could still *call* it a screensaver, but it'd be a poor implementation.


----------



## krkaufman

bradleys said:


> So now the TiVo Mini experience is a failure because the main TiVo doesn't have a screen saver?


You get "failure" from "unfavorable design/implementation"?

You've definitely proven something, here. Cheers.


----------



## slowbiscuit

bradleys said:


> @samccfl99
> 
> A screen saver on a TiVo is a terrible idea and I will call it out as a bad idea every time i hear it - simply because it keeps getting brought up by people with no more design sense than a rock. It is not obvious, it not a pending, is not an oversight.
> 
> NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO SCREEN SAVER


This is just your opinion and one with which I completely disagree. It should have been an *option* from the very beginning.

No one said it has to be mandatory, just that it should have been a choice. Another case where Tivo chose for you.


----------



## ajwees41

The only time I have seen or thought there should be a screen saver is music choice until they change to rotating screens


----------



## gonzotek

bradleys said:


> You guys will argue anything before admitting that maybe, just maybe you are a little wrong headed about this.


Why hello, Mr. Pot. I'd like to introduce you to a dear friend, Ms. Kettle. I think the two of you will get along marvelously.


----------



## trip1eX

ej42137 said:


> Geez. So why watch them? I didn't even consider these, they're the worst of both worlds. My point was if you are willing to pay you *can* get a better experience. Paying doesn't insure that the experience will be better, of course; your own good taste and sense must be applied when you make your viewing choices. If you spend money on Amazon Prime to watch "Under the Dome" you get what you deserve!


But you have to pay for all streaming services. 

Your posts imply we have non-paying streaming options.


----------



## reneg

trip1eX said:


> But you have to pay for all streaming services.
> 
> Your posts imply we have non-paying streaming options.


Granted Yahoo Screen has very limited content, but I've not paid anything to stream the latest episodes for Community.


----------



## gespears

Just wanted to place a vote against a timeout of the pause for a recorded show. If I pause a show, I want it to STAY paused until I'm ready to play it again. Be that one minute or one year.

My .02


----------



## southerndoc

I didn't sign up for the priority update this time. How long after the priority updates does it take to roll out the updates for non-priority TiVo users?


----------



## ej42137

trip1eX said:


> But you have to pay for all streaming services.
> 
> Your posts imply we have non-paying streaming options.


Hmmm. I'm not sure if you mean that we're paying by selling our eyeballs or you just aren't very good at finding stuff on the interwebs. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are being disingenuous.


----------



## RoyK

geekmedic said:


> I didn't sign up for the priority update this time. How long after the priority updates does it take to roll out the updates for non-priority TiVo users?


I didn't sign up either and both my roamio and mini updated almost two weeks ago. Unless you like watching the intro video you haven't missed much. But then they didn't screw up anything obvious either like they did with the previous update...


----------



## ohboy710

I confirmed with Tivo on the phone today that Plex is coming to Tivo, but they do not have a release date yet.


----------



## aaronwt

gespears said:


> Just wanted to place a vote against a timeout of the pause for a recorded show. If I pause a show, I want it to STAY paused until I'm ready to play it again. Be that one minute or one year.
> 
> My .02


I feel the same way. If I pause it I want it to stay paused. I've had TiVos paused for weeks in the past before I returned to it. But even if I actually had the TV on during that time I wouldn't care. I use DLP sets and LCD sets so I'm not concerned about having a static picture on there indefinitely.

At work we've had monitors with static screens running with the same thing for months at a time 24/7. The only ones that ever caused an issue were the Plasma sets. WHich they stopped getting because of the burn in they all got.


----------



## bradleys

gonzotek said:


> Why hello, Mr. Pot. I'd like to introduce you to a dear friend, Ms. Kettle. I think the two of you will get along marvelously.


Yeah, I know... It is just absolutely the most annoying feature request we get and it keeps coming up and coming up - for gods sake it is like fingernails on a chalkboard!

TIVO HAS A SCREENSAVER!

And when you have members that want to use the perceived lack of a screensaver as "proof positive" that TiVo is a piss poor company it even grates a me more.


----------



## bradleys

gespears said:


> Just wanted to place a vote against a timeout of the pause for a recorded show. If I pause a show, I want it to STAY paused until I'm ready to play it again. Be that one minute or one year.
> 
> My .02


My daughter has this tendency to pause a show and turn off the tv. A few hours later she comes back to start where she left off. I try to explain to her that if she just goes back to live TV - that the TiVo will remember where it was for her.

I don't think she trusts it...


----------



## lessd

bradleys said:


> My daughter has this tendency to pause a show and turn off the tv. A few hours later she comes back to start where she left off. I try to explain to her that if she just goes back to live TV - that the TiVo will remember where it was for her.
> 
> I don't think she trusts it...


My wife does the same thing, it not like tape, as nothing bad happens if the TiVo is left on pause with the TV off (or on).


----------



## dswallow

bradleys said:


> My daughter has this tendency to pause a show and turn off the tv. A few hours later she comes back to start where she left off. I try to explain to her that if she just goes back to live TV - that the TiVo will remember where it was for her.
> 
> I don't think she trusts it...


I liked it when you could just go into the menus and the show became paused.


----------



## namwoljr

Dude, give it a rest. Your opinion is duly noted. Others have differing opinions for valid reasons. At the very least, having it as an option should be no big deal for Tivo to implement. That way if you don't want to use a screensaver because of your superior "design sense", you don't have to. Those of us with a "design sense" having rock-like attributes can use a screensaver if we choose to. Everyone is happy. Don't you want everyone to be happy, and not just yourself?



bradleys said:


> Yeah, I know... It is just absolutely the most annoying feature request we get and it keeps coming up and coming up - for gods sake it is like fingernails on a chalkboard!
> 
> TIVO HAS A SCREENSAVER!
> 
> And when you have members that want to use the perceived lack of a screensaver as "proof positive" that TiVo is a piss poor company it even grates a me more.


----------



## RoyK

bradleys said:


> My daughter has this tendency to pause a show and turn off the tv. A few hours later she comes back to start where she left off. I try to explain to her that if she just goes back to live TV - that the TiVo will remember where it was for her.
> 
> I don't think she trusts it...


I can understand not doing that if others use the TV in the meantime but if she is the only user then what she is doing makes perfect sense. Why not have everything the way she left it when she comes back?


----------



## jcthorne

RoyK said:


> I didn't sign up either and both my roamio and mini updated almost two weeks ago. Unless you like watching the intro video you haven't missed much. But then they didn't screw up anything obvious either like they did with the previous update...


They fixed video pushes. They now work like recordings from other sources including one passes and folders. This has never been true before.


----------



## jcthorne

ohboy710 said:


> I confirmed with Tivo on the phone today that Plex is coming to Tivo, but they do not have a release date yet.


Good to hear. Thanks for posting.


----------



## bradleys

namwoljr said:


> Dude, give it a rest. Your opinion is duly noted. Others have differing opinions for valid reasons. At the very least, having it as an option should be no big deal for Tivo to implement. That way if you don't want to use a screensaver because of your superior "design sense", you don't have to. Those of us with a "design sense" having rock-like attributes can use a screensaver if we choose to. Everyone is happy. Don't you want everyone to be happy, and not just yourself?


The sun rises in the East and sets in the West. The earth revolves around the sun and the moon around the earth. These are immutable facts, just as the fact that TiVo uses Live TV as a screen saver on full TiVos,

My "opinion" is that endless options do not improve consumer electronics - so I disagree with that assertion as well.

It has nothing to do with "making everyone happy" that is the fastest track to making everyone miserable. TiVo's design decisions should be to make a product that functions.

In some ways TiVo designs a product that functions very well, in other ways it can improve - and I am sure they would be the first to agree with that sentiment. But not with a blasted SCREEN SAVER!


----------



## RoyK

jcthorne said:


> Good to hear. Thanks for posting.





bradleys said:


> The sun rises in the East and sets in the West. The earth revolves around the sun and the moon around the earth. These are immutable facts, just as the fact that TiVo uses Live TV as a screen saver on full TiVos,
> 
> My "opinion" is that endless options do not improve consumer electronics - so I disagree with that assertion as well.
> 
> It has nothing to do with "making everyone happy" that is the fastest track to making everyone miserable. TiVo's design decisions should be to make a product that functions.
> 
> In some ways TiVo designs a product that functions very well, in other ways it can improve - and I am sure they would be the first to agree with that sentiment. But not with a blasted SCREEN SAVER!


I haven't seen anyone so obsessed with something trivial since I watched The Caine Mutiny. Take a deep breath.


----------



## krkaufman

jcthorne said:


> They fixed video pushes.


What's a "video push"?


----------



## spazzychicken

Anyone having issues with HDMI since the upgrade? I know that quite a few people have had HDMI/HDCP issues with Tivos in the past, but anyone see any impact from this latest update?

My Roamio no longer works through my Yamaha receiver. It appears to have started after a recent restart of the Tivo. I've tried everything that I have seen suggested to fix such an issue, but nothing works. HDMI to my LG plasma works, but not through the receiver. If I change the resolution to 480p, the HDMI works through the receiver, but no other resolutions will work (screen goes blank).

I never had the issue before the 20.4.7 update. Anyone else see this?


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## Dixon Butz

spazzychicken said:


> Anyone having issues with HDMI since the upgrade? I know that quite a few people have had HDMI/HDCP issues with Tivos in the past, but anyone see any impact from this latest update?
> 
> My Roamio no longer works through my Yamaha receiver. It appears to have started after a recent restart of the Tivo. I've tried everything that I have seen suggested to fix such an issue, but nothing works. HDMI to my LG plasma works, but not through the receiver. If I change the resolution to 480p, the HDMI works through the receiver, but no other resolutions will work (screen goes blank).
> 
> I never had the issue before the 20.4.7 update. Anyone else see this?


No issues with a Denon. All video processing is off. Is yours off on the Yamaha if it has it?


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## bradleys

RoyK said:


> I can understand not doing that if others use the TV in the meantime but if she is the only user then what she is doing makes perfect sense. Why not have everything the way she left it when she comes back?


Because she is a 13 year old kid that does weird things from time to time... 

For the most part, I suspect she doesn't think she will be gone that long and then gets distracted...


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## dswallow

RoyK said:


> I haven't seen anyone so obsessed with something trivial since I watched The Caine Mutiny. Take a deep breath.


Were you around before the free space percentage got added to the UI?


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## RoyK

dswallow said:


> Were you around before the free space percentage got added to the UI?


Yes. I stand corrected.


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## jcthorne

krkaufman said:


> What's a "video push"?


Tivo desktop or pytivo placing video from your local pc or network on the tivo.


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## RoyK

jcthorne said:


> Tivo desktop or pytivo placing video from your local pc or network on the tivo.


Why push vs pull? Just curious. I often pull videos from my server but never had a reason to push.


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## JoeKustra

RoyK said:


> Why push vs pull? Just curious. I often pull videos from my server but never had a reason to push.


I couldn't find the option on Desktop to push either. Maybe there's an update?


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## jcthorne

spazzychicken said:


> Anyone having issues with HDMI since the upgrade? I know that quite a few people have had HDMI/HDCP issues with Tivos in the past, but anyone see any impact from this latest update?
> 
> My Roamio no longer works through my Yamaha receiver. It appears to have started after a recent restart of the Tivo. I've tried everything that I have seen suggested to fix such an issue, but nothing works. HDMI to my LG plasma works, but not through the receiver. If I change the resolution to 480p, the HDMI works through the receiver, but no other resolutions will work (screen goes blank).
> 
> I never had the issue before the 20.4.7 update. Anyone else see this?


I can relate that HDMI through my Yamaha receiver is working fine after the 20.4.7 update.


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## moyekj

RoyK said:


> Why push vs pull? Just curious. I often pull videos from my server but never had a reason to push.


With pull you have to physically be in front of DVR or use slingbox to start transfers 1 at a time and you can't use a program to do it. With push that's not necessary so you can push several at once either through web interface or via a program or using TiVo Desktop auto transfers.


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## RoyK

moyekj said:


> With pull you have to physically be in front of DVR or use slingbox to start transfers 1 at a time and you can't use a program to do it. With push that's not necessary so you can push several at once either through web interface or via a program or using TiVo Desktop auto transfers.


Interesting. Not something that I would do but can see where some might. Thanks


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## JoeKustra

jcthorne said:


> Tivo desktop or pytivo placing video from your local pc or network on the tivo.


Please explain how I can use Desktop to place a video from my local PC onto my Tivo. Thanks.


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## jcthorne

JoeKustra said:


> Please explain how I can use Desktop to place a video from my local PC onto my Tivo. Thanks.


Desktop allows you to set up an auto transfer folder. Whatever vids are placed there it will be pushed to the Tivo (if they are compatible).

I have not used Tivo Desktop in years as it was poorly written and very limited in function. Pytivo and kmttg have taken the same protocols (and RPC) and gone MUCH further. Suggest heading over to the Home Media section of the forum and read up on pytivo and kmttg.


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## jcthorne

RoyK said:


> Why push vs pull? Just curious. I often pull videos from my server but never had a reason to push.


As moyekj states, it allows remote management of the tivo using pc software. Push is only a part of this. pytivo and kmttg together allow nearly complete management of the tivo device from the pc. Much more flexibility and automation than doing things one step at a time using the tivo remote.

Streambaby also allows pushing video to the tivo rather than streaming.


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## lpwcomp

There are negatives associated with push.

You are dependent on the TiVo mind server.

Until recently, you got less metadata and recordings did not group with those "natively" made on the TiVo. Still true for series 3 or earlier.

Push creates copy protected recordings, thus they cannot be remotely streamed to a mobile device.


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## Mikeguy

JoeKustra said:


> I couldn't find the option on Desktop to push either. Maybe there's an update?


It's there but, as far as I can tell, only is functional with the paid version of Desktop. At least, that's all I could find when I looked into this on the Desktop freeware version last month--every time I found another means by which to push shows from my PC to my TiVo, Desktop ultimately would tell me I needed the paid version or would direct me to the TiVo website where the buy version is listed.


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## RoyK

jcthorne said:


> As moyekj states, it allows remote management of the tivo using pc software. Push is only a part of this. pytivo and kmttg together allow nearly complete management of the tivo device from the pc. Much more flexibility and automation than doing things one step at a time using the tivo remote.
> 
> Streambaby also allows pushing video to the tivo rather than streaming.


Thanks. I have used both in the past. Agree about flexibility etc. but really more than I want to go through to watch stuff on my TV, which I suppose is why I get so ticked when features are removed as happened with the 1P update. I have a couple of TB of movies and home videos and pull them through desktop server on occasion.


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## JoeKustra

jcthorne said:


> Desktop allows you to set up an auto transfer folder. Whatever vids are placed there it will be pushed to the Tivo (if they are compatible).
> 
> I have not used Tivo Desktop in years as it was poorly written and very limited in function. Pytivo and kmttg have taken the same protocols (and RPC) and gone MUCH further. Suggest heading over to the Home Media section of the forum and read up on pytivo and kmttg.





Mikeguy said:


> It's there but, as far as I can tell, only is functional with the paid version of Desktop. At least, that's all I could find when I looked into this on the Desktop freeware version last month--every time I found another means by which to push shows from my PC to my TiVo, Desktop ultimately would tell me I needed the paid version or would direct me to the TiVo website where the buy version is listed.


May I state this. Only pytivo and kmttg can push files from the pc storage to a TiVo. Desktop can transfer a series from the TiVo to a PC by simply copying programs with the same name. There are no folders with Desktop, even if the files are in folders on the TiVo. I will happily be corrected by someone with an example. I have two copies of Desktop+ that can stream (because they are paid version). But only from a TiVo to the PC. I call that "pull".


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## Mikeguy

JoeKustra said:


> May I state this. Only pytivo and kmttg can push files from the pc storage to a TiVo. Desktop can transfer a series from the TiVo to a PC by simply copying programs with the same name. There are no folders with Desktop, even if the files are in folders on the TiVo. I will happily be corrected by someone with an example. I have two copies of Desktop+ that can stream (because they are paid version). But only from a TiVo to the PC. I call that "pull".


Don't know what to tell you, Joe--I found 2 avenues by which to push PC files to one's TiVo via TiVo Desktop, via the Desktop main screen or the up-top menu. But the message Desktop then told me, each time and one way or another, was that the feature needed to be unlocked by purchasing a Desktop Plus key.


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## RoyK

JoeKustra said:


> May I state this. Only pytivo and kmttg can push files from the pc storage to a TiVo. Desktop can transfer a series from the TiVo to a PC by simply copying programs with the same name. There are no folders with Desktop, even if the files are in folders on the TiVo. I will happily be corrected by someone with an example. I have two copies of Desktop+ that can stream (because they are paid version). But only from a TiVo to the PC. I call that "pull".


Actually the pc transfer folder I specify in desktop contains only shortcuts to other folders (some of which have subfolders) where the actual files reside. This folder/subfolder structure carries to the roamio if groups are on. Often, however, none of the groups can be selected because none are highlighted - - - a bug. Ungrouping and regrouping still works in the special now playing on the pc folder and gets the highlight working.

Edit The programs on the roamio do show ungrouped in Desktop's window.


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## JoeKustra

Mikeguy said:


> Don't know what to tell you, Joe--I found 2 avenues by which to push PC files to one's TiVo via TiVo Desktop, via the Desktop main screen or the up-top menu. But the message Desktop then told me, each time and one way or another, was that the feature needed to be unlocked by purchasing a Desktop Plus key.


I understand. Shortly after making the paid version they changed the ability to function without a key. While it still shows 2.8.3 on screen or via help, internally it has been changed to 2.8.4.something. This precludes it being functional without the key. It also will not link to your TiVo account without they key being applied. Anyhow, while the programs on the PC do show under My Shows, and they can be pulled from that PC, you can't send them from a TiVo or send them from Desktop. But this is too long off topic. I am waiting for 20.4.7 on my Roamio to see if it will copy large files back from the PC. At this time it does not. The 20.4.7 didn't help my Premiere do it, but I'm still optimistic.


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## lessd

JoeKustra said:


> I understand. Shortly after making the paid version they changed the ability to function without a key. While it still shows 2.8.3 on screen or via help, internally it has been changed to 2.8.4.something. This precludes it being functional without the key. It also will not link to your TiVo account without they key being applied. Anyhow, while the programs on the PC do show under My Shows, and they can be pulled from that PC, you can't send them from a TiVo or send them from Desktop. But this is too long off topic. I am waiting for 20.4.7 on my Roamio to see if it will copy large files back from the PC. At this time it does not. The 20.4.7 didn't help my Premiere do it, but I'm still optimistic.


I have moved movies from my PC to my Roamio using the unlocked version of TiVo desktop (the key cost $15). DVD to AVI format works well, then move to any TiVo on your network.


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## jcthorne

JoeKustra said:


> May I state this. Only pytivo and kmttg can push files from the pc storage to a TiVo. Desktop can transfer a series from the TiVo to a PC by simply copying programs with the same name. There are no folders with Desktop, even if the files are in folders on the TiVo. I will happily be corrected by someone with an example. I have two copies of Desktop+ that can stream (because they are paid version). But only from a TiVo to the PC. I call that "pull".


Push and pull are both about moving video FROM a PC TO a Tivo. Push is controlled from the pc end and pushes the video to the tivo. Pull is controlled from the tivo end via menus and pulls from the pc.

Yes, desktop can do both protocols. Its where the information to do so in pytivo et al came from.


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## jcthorne

lpwcomp said:


> There are negatives associated with push.
> 
> You are dependent on the TiVo mind server.
> 
> Until recently, you got less metadata and recordings did not group with those "natively" made on the TiVo. Still true for series 3 or earlier.
> 
> Push creates copy protected recordings, thus they cannot be remotely streamed to a mobile device.


These are true but, my experience is the mind server is pretty reliable and quick 99+% of the time. When the mind server is down, many things don't work well, not just pushes.

The metadata is no longer and issue. pulls and pushes get the same metadata from gracenote now and group together.

I never stream from the tivo. Don't even own a stream as they have proven far to limited and unreliable out of home compared to the slingbox I do have. Everything is on my server anyway, I would never have need to pull a recording off the tivo that I placed there. And MRS streaming between tivos and minis works just fine for pushed vids.


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## JoeKustra

jcthorne said:


> Push and pull are both about moving video FROM a PC TO a Tivo. Push is controlled from the pc end and pushes the video to the tivo. Pull is controlled from the tivo end via menus and pulls from the pc.
> 
> Yes, desktop can do both protocols. Its where the information to do so in pytivo et al came from.


I would be very grateful if you could give me a clue as to how, at my PC, I can move a program to my Roamio or Premiere.


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## Aero 1

JoeKustra said:


> I would be very grateful if you could give me a clue as to how, at my PC, I can move a program to my Roamio or Premiere.


1. install pytivo
2. setup pytivo
3. push video to roamio or premiere with pytivo
4. ???
5. profit


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## lpwcomp

Aero 1 said:


> 1. install pytivo
> 2. setup pytivo
> 3. push video to roamio or premiere with pytivo
> 4. ???
> 5. profit


or

3. pull video from computer to TiVo.


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## Aero 1

lpwcomp said:


> or
> 
> 3. pull video from computer to TiVo.


he asked "at his PC" so it doesn't apply.


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## jcthorne

The link to setup instructions under windows for pytivo is in my signature.


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## Joe3

Any reason why PyTiVo would deliver one program to two TiVos in different formats?

To my series 3 it downloads in 1080i, but on my new Romeo it delivers the same exact program in 480p. I was thinking of posting, however, there seems to be some knowledge here, and besides this behavior between the two TiVos is driving me crazy.


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## aaronwt

JoeKustra said:


> I would be very grateful if you could give me a clue as to how, at my PC, I can move a program to my Roamio or Premiere.


With TiVo Desktop once you put the content in the specified folder it is automatically transferred to the TiVos specified in the settings.

Personally I'm not fan fan of pushing. I typically pull the content when I'm at the TiVo.


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## jcthorne

Joe3 said:


> Any reason why PyTiVo would deliver one program to two TiVos in different formats?
> 
> To my series 3 it downloads in 1080i, but on my new Romeo it delivers the same exact program in 480p. I was thinking of posting, however, there seems to be some knowledge here, and besides this behavior between the two TiVos is driving me crazy.


Sounds like out of date pytivo that does not recognize the Roamio.


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## Joe3

jcthorne said:


> Sounds like out of date pytivo that does not recognize the Roamio.


I have not updated pytivo since 2011. I guess I should look for an update.


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## jcthorne

Joe3 said:


> I have not updated pytivo since 2011. I guess I should look for an update.


the link is in the setup instructions. See my signature line. Or any of wmcbrine's posts. (author of the main fork).


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## mxhonda

jcthorne said:


> the link is in the setup instructions. See my signature line. Or any of wmcbrine's posts. (author of the main fork).


Thanks!


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## krkaufman

jcthorne said:


> The link to setup instructions under windows for pytivo is in my signature.


About that signature...


> kmttg, pyTivo, running with a 78TB Synology 1511 NAS....serving up the world.


I take it, then, that you're running pyTiVo on a Windows box, not on your Synology? Your Synology NAS is just the storage?


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## jcthorne

krkaufman said:


> About that signature...
> 
> I take it, then, that you're running pyTiVo on a Windows box, not on your Synology? Your Synology NAS is just the storage?


I ran it on the Synology box for about a year. Finally moved it to a low power windows laptop along with a few other things I run 24/7. Its just easier (for me) to manipulate and manage on the windows machine. The NAS is a server mostly. It does run a few other services but its mostly a dual redundant file server.


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## bradleys

jcthorne said:


> I ran it on the Synology box for about a year. Finally moved it to a low power windows laptop along with a few other things I run 24/7. Its just easier (for me) to manipulate and manage on the windows machine. The NAS is a server mostly. It does run a few other services but its mostly a dual redundant file server.


I have been thinking about getting a Linux version of one of these to run my PyTiVo / Plex Server:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...fcr_compute_stick_atom_1gb_8gb_ssd_linux.html










If it boots up quickly once the TV is powered on, it would be just about the perfect solution.


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## Expidia

Any reason my Roamio Plus's TW number was accepted for the early update but it wont accept my mini's TW number says its not valid.

I copied it directly off my tivo account too!


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