# 20.4.2 Release Notes



## TiVoMargret

(sorry for the delay in posting these)

We have begun updating TiVo Roamio, TiVo Premiere, and TiVo Mini boxes with the 20.4.2 "Summer Update". There is still time to request an early update with tivo.com/priority. Customers that don't request a priority update will be automatically updated by the end of the month.

Here are some of the changes:
- TiVo Premiere and TiVo Mini boxes will now have the same visual look as TiVo Roamio. (Colors & font.)
- The UI is now written in Haxe instead of Adobe Air/Flash, which is why things are faster than in 20.4.1.
- My Shows now offers an optional left-column with a list of categories you can turn on/off & rearrange to make it easier to find the show you're looking for. Categories include: All, Partially watched, Going away soon, TV Series, Movies, Kids, Sports, News, Suggestions, Video Providers, and Devices. Use the A button in My Shows to change these settings.
Video: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbJmbXU4PlU[/media]

- If you press INFO on a show in the Guide, it will indicate if that episode is available from a video provider, so you can watch it right away.
- HuffPost Live app now available in Apps & Games
- Fixed a problem where large recordings couldn't always be permanently deleted from the recently deleted folder
- Fixed issues related to video freezing when the TiVo's HDMI was connected to an Xbox
- DVR diagnostics should now correctly report QAM modulation
- Fixed issues related to HDMI snow appearing when YouTube videos changed frame rate
- Default recording options should now be respected when a WishList is set up from Search
- Fixed performance problems related to transferring video from a Roamio
- Fixed the occasional bursts of static some customers would randomly hear
- Fixed the pixelation that would appear at the beginning of downloaded videos

--Margret


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## southerndoc

Thanks for all the updates. TiVo is definitely the best DVR available!


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## davezatz

Embedded switched digital video?!


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## tarheelblue32

davezatz said:


> Embedded switched digital video?!


How is that even remotely relevant to a software update thread? That's a hardware limitation.


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## NorthAlabama

thanks for the incredible premiere performance of the update, and the release notes. communication from tivo to cusotmers continues to amaze, and it's (at least) appreciated by me.


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## davezatz

tarheelblue32 said:


> How is that even remotely relevant to a software update thread? That's a hardware limitation.


I got it from another _software_ thread that you obviously missed.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10169254&highlight=embedded#post10169254



> Just got off the phone with TiVo Tech support and found out that this update also fixed the heartbleed bug that was going around a few months ago (just for the sake of fixing it he said) as well as adding something called "embedded Switched Digital Video" support


So is this for other or non-retail DVR hardware, is the back channel approach used for VOD going to be applied in new ways, something else, confused tech?


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## andyf

Amazon Instant Video is missing from the new category "Video Providers". I'm sure this is something that can be fixed on the back end.


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## BigJimOutlaw

That was the second time integrated SDV support has come up here in the forums. If true, I'm thrilled for the tuning adapter folks.


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## TiVoMargret

davezatz said:


> Embedded switched digital video?!


The "embedded Switched Digital Video" is relevant only to specific cable operator partners with additional support in their headend.


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## ajwees41

TiVoMargret said:


> The "embedded Switched Digital Video" is relevant only to specific cable operator partners with additional support in their headend.


Cox isn't one


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## davezatz

TiVoMargret said:


> The "embedded Switched Digital Video" is relevant only to specific cable operator partners with additional support in their headend.


Sweet, thank you!


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## spaldingclan

any way to get Amazon added back to the "video providers" list?


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## BigJimOutlaw

Thanks a lot Margret, solid update. 

UI written in Haxe... that's interesting. (just as a nerd.)

The aspect ratio bug is starting to get annoying rather quickly, though.


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## HarperVision

TiVoMargret said:


> The "embedded Switched Digital Video" is relevant only to specific cable operator partners with additional support in their headend.


As always, thanks Margret! Are you able to share exactly which providers will support this feature?


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## RojCowles

- The UI is now written in Haxe instead of Adobe Air/Flash, which is why things are faster than in 20.4.1.

Neat! As a geek, though not a UI design one, I'd be interested to hear how the rewrite went using Haxe though I suspect that such a write up would consume a day or more of TivoMarget's or an engineer's time so maybe not ...

Nice to see that Tivo is a Strategic partner of the Haxe Foundation!

--
Roj


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## jrtroo

As a non-geek, I have no idea what Haxe is, but appreciate the speed. It is much better than I anticipated it would be. Now the flash haters can move to something else.

I just wish our resident benchmarker had a chance to run some pre tests to help show how much faster some of the navigation is. I still surprised how much better it is on my two tuner premieres, especially combined with the additional functionality.


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## BigJimOutlaw

RojCowles said:


> Neat! As a geek, though not a UI design one, I'd be interested to hear how the rewrite went using Haxe though I suspect that such a write up would consume a day or more of TivoMarget's or an engineer's time so maybe not ...


If you wanna get your nerd on, I found a Tivo/Haxe developer pdf that offers a lot of insight and nuggets into the transition process. (e.g. early prototype performance was +30%.)

https://github.com/kulick/wwx2014

And a blog post about Tivo at the Paris WWX2014 conference:

http://pigiuz.wordpress.com/2014/05/26/wwx-2014-follow-up-thoughts-on-haxe/


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## jrtroo

Those are great. It seems to directly answer the question on the development of Android stream support. haxe transition first, then new features related to streaming. I'm satisfied with that, especially with the new speed I'm seeing.


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## davezatz

jrtroo said:


> Those are great.


+2


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## Philmatic

TiVoMargret said:


> The "embedded Switched Digital Video" is relevant only to specific cable operator partners with additional support in their headend.





ajwees41 said:


> Cox isn't one


Sad panda! This is huge news.


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## jwbelcher

BigJimOutlaw said:


> If you wanna get your nerd on, I found a Tivo/Haxe developer pdf that offers a lot of insight and nuggets into the transition process. (e.g. early prototype performance was +30%.)
> 
> https://github.com/kulick/wwx2014
> 
> And a blog post about Tivo at the Paris WWX2014 conference:
> 
> http://pigiuz.wordpress.com/2014/05/26/wwx-2014-follow-up-thoughts-on-haxe/


Check the guys Twitter post ::


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/470558649585532928
A little more than hypothetical as its stated in the pdf. mind blowing indeed :up:


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## Philmatic

Looks like switching to Haxe is simplified their multi-OS ambitions, the slides specifically call out "Android TV Devices" for the NME C++ Deployment, and Browsers for the OpenFL HTML/JS deployment.


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## tatergator1

Back when the Spring update was released, Margret suggested the Summer update would be "big." Prior to the Haxe revelation, it just didn't feel like what was visibly changed in the Summer update was "big". Knowing that the entire UI code has been re-written is "big" and exciting. Hopefully leads to even better things to come.


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## dianebrat

jwbelcher said:


> Check the guys Twitter post ::
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/470558649585532928
> A little more than hypothetical as its stated in the pdf. mind blowing indeed :up:





> #TiVo running on #amazon fire TV using #haxe ... Same code, just recompiled for a different target #wwx2014


wow.. impressive


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## muzzymate

tatergator1 said:


> Back when the Spring update was released, Margret suggested the Summer update would be "big." Prior to the Haxe revelation, it just didn't feel like what was visibly changed in the Summer update was "big". Knowing that the entire UI code has been re-written is "big" and exciting. Hopefully leads to even better things to come.


Exactly, I was a little let down at first (before getting the update), thinking it was only a reskin. However, the performance boost and knowing it was a complete re-do from Flash to Haxe is both fascinating and amazing. And they did it one year! It makes my Premiere feel like a premium product and I'm so happy they did this, even it meant there weren't a lot of visible new features. Knowing this is what happened behind the scenes is amazing and I'm glad they made it public. My TiVo satisfaction meter just went from a 7 to a 9!

It's very interesting to see the Amazon FireTV and Xbox One called out as potential home endpoints. I can only imagine the possibilities. Hope they pursue it.



jwbelcher said:


> Check the guys Twitter post ::
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/470558649585532928
> A little more than hypothetical as its stated in the pdf. mind blowing indeed :up:


WOW! Very cool. Love this stuff!



TiVoMargret said:


> - Fixed issues related to video freezing when the TiVo's HDMI was connected to an Xbox


Thanks for this one specifically! It was driving me and my family nuts!


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## Icarus

Thanks for the Release Notes thread and the info.



TiVoMargret said:


> The "embedded Switched Digital Video" is relevant only to specific cable operator partners with additional support in their headend.


How will we know if/when it's rolled out and we can dump the TA?

Time Warner .. and specifically Oceanic TW.

I guess the protocol is different from the TA version of it? Is that why it needs head end changes?

Thanks,
David


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## Sixto

Margret, thank you.

And the Haxe links were awesome, thanks for sharing.

Shame that they needed to dedicate resources for a year, but hey, now it's done, and on to better and greater possibilities.


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## dlfl

Icarus said:


> Thanks for the Release Notes thread and the info.
> 
> How will we know if/when it's rolled out and we can dump the TA?
> 
> Time Warner .. and specifically Oceanic TW.
> 
> I guess the protocol is different from the TA version of it? Is that why it needs head end changes?
> 
> Thanks,
> David


One would think so, and the more it's different from current TA techniques the better the chance it will be an actual improvement. I have to wonder what motivates the cable cos to fund these head end changes. Surely it isn't just to support TiVo's in general. Or is it just the cable cos that have joint marketing agreements with TiVo's that are customized to their systems?

I'm willing to give great odds that my TWC provider will **never** do anything like this.


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## jwbelcher

dlfl said:


> One would think so, and the more it's different from current TA techniques the better the chance it will be an actual improvement. I have to wonder what motivates the cable cos to fund these head end changes. Surely it isn't just to support TiVo's in general. Or is it just the cable cos that have joint marketing agreements with TiVo's that are customized to their systems?
> 
> I'm willing to give great odds that my TWC provider will **never** do anything like this.


I'd guess the motive is reducing capital expenditures on TA hardware. I believe most providers don't make anything off the TA lease (mine is free for example)


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## Icarus

jwbelcher said:


> I'd guess the motive is reducing capital expenditures on TA hardware. I believe most providers don't make anything off the TA lease (mine is free for example)


right ... they can't charge us anything for the TA. I believe it was part of the SDV agreement. So if they can replace the TA with software, they win too.

If it's possible to improve the protocol that might also eliminate some service calls as well. (perhaps in the long run, but that might be a stretch.)

Hmmm, I wonder if that will spur the tv manufacturers to reconsider cable card?

-David


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## kbmb

TiVoMargret said:


> - Fixed a problem where large recordings couldn't always be permanently deleted from the recently deleted folder


Still having this issue even after the update.

-Kevin


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## eboydog

jrtroo said:


> Those are great. It seems to directly answer the question on the development of Android stream support. haxe transition first, then new features related to streaming. I'm satisfied with that, especially with the new speed I'm seeing.


Personally I don't see this being related to Android Stream support as this was just the UI not the bells and whistles of the TiVo internals. The only thing missing for Android Stream support is the updated Android application, sure there there might be a code bug update for the StreM hardware as there isn't a TiVo Stream UI other than the web portal and any updates to the actual TiVo software will be bug fixes to the Stream hardware only.

Of course all that could be wrong if they completely dump the existing Apple IOS Stream support and are planning on doing the streaming process diffently than they are doing it now but I would hope they had a rough road map when they created Stream but who knows, since TiVo refuses to say anything about Stream. I find it odd that there hasn't been even a hint about Android Stream development, too many people have been waiting too long for such for the internet to be so quiet about such, it almost as if they want us to forget they promised it for this summer.

Summer is here and we don't have Android Stream.


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## brentil

A 30% improvement in performance with the first public release is impressive. Especially after reading the PDF about how much effort TiVo has put into improving Haxe. I can only imagine how much better it'll get after they've completed their wishlist section they talked about. :up:


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## jwbelcher

For such a major overhaul, two years in the making, I'm very surprised at the version numbering. I'd expect major version number bump, but hey, they're only numbers right?

But to be honest though, they deserve major kudos for the effort. For as much that changed, I wouldn't have known from usage. The re-write is very consistent with the UI behavior from 20.4.1. That's really saying a lot about the kind of effort (and testing) that went into it. :up:


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## sakaike

TiVoMargret said:


> (sorry for the delay in posting these)
> - Fixed the occasional bursts of static some customers would randomly hear


If this is the burst of static I hear when changing channels (change the channel, hear burst of static, then channel video and audio come on), then I still have this "bug"...


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## muzzymate

jwbelcher said:


> For such a major overhaul, two years in the making, I'm very surprised at the version numbering. I'd expect major version number bump, but hey, they're only numbers right?


Their update numbering scheme seems to be as follows: 20 (year 2000s) . 4 (year 14) . 2 (second major update of the year).

I've seen other software companies use a similar numbering scheme. The only one I'm not 95% sure of is the 20.


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## lpwcomp

muzzymate said:


> Their update numbering scheme seems to be as follows: 20 (year 2000s) . 4 (year 14) . 2 (second major update of the year).


Wrong.


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## nooneuknow

I can not recall TiVo ever rolling an update that didn't break something.

The aspect/zoom issue has come up in multiple threads, also reported to once again cause Netflix to use an improper aspect ratio, based on the zoom/aspect mode the TiVo is on before entering Netflix, which I have verified to be happening.

Also noted in other threads, and I am seeing, SDV channels lose their buffer when the TiVo button is pressed, and lose it any and every time on SDV and TiVo button is pressed. It makes "What To Watch Now" pretty useless again, just as I was beginning to find it useful.

I had hope for the new My Shows layout. Due to the major waste of space on the sides (the spaces to the left and right of the used space), I had to turn it off, or suffer eye strain.

I'll give credit for giving us the option to turn it off. Nice idea, but too much wasted screen real estate to make it work on a 32" 1080P TV, for me. Other family members liked the idea, but had to turn it off on an even larger 1080P TV, viewed from a longer distance away, for the same reasons.


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## aaronwt

It's actually stretching the HD channels? IN my setups it's just like before. The zoom button has no effect on HD channels. Only SD channels.

I'll need to make sure I check my Roamio Basic tomorrow at my GFs house when I connect it to her Vizio to see if zoom does anything.


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## NorthAlabama

aaronwt said:


> It's actually stretching the HD channels? IN my setups it's just like before. The zoom button has no effect on HD channels. Only SD channels.


this, i haven't noticed any changes on my hd channels.

a simple toggle of the zoom button corrects the sd channel preference from "full", to "panel", and then "zoom", and it stays set until a re-boot or re-initialization resets it to the default, which is "full" (a stretched sd picture).


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## nooneuknow

aaronwt said:


> It's actually stretching the HD channels? IN my setups it's just like before. The zoom button has no effect on HD channels. Only SD channels.
> 
> I'll need to make sure I check my Roamio Basic tomorrow at my GFs house when I connect it to her Vizio to see if zoom does anything.


It appears to have resolved on its own. Cause unknown. Reason for it happening unknown. I pulled my reports of it, to not confuse the more widely reported "SD resetting to Full mode" issue.


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## CoxInPHX

nooneuknow said:


> It appears the HD channels are stretched vertically, and I've never seen that before.


I am not seeing any "Stretching" of HD channels, for me this just affects the display of the SD channels and 4:3 content.

But, all of 3 of my TiVo DVRs (not Minis) are resetting themselves daily to the "Full" Aspect Ratio, even though when you press Zoom it says it is currently "Panel"


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## Finalrinse

Great update Margret! My Premier now performs close to my Roamio and Mini. I also like the new categories in the Guide.


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## jollygrunt777

So that HAXE update, will it also benefit the Roamio UI?


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## dlfl

TiVoMargret said:


> The "embedded Switched Digital Video" is relevant only to specific cable operator partners with additional support in their headend.


Can you please inform which specific operators, and whether this is ever likely to come to my TWC, Southwest Ohio (soon to become Charter as part of the Comcast/TWC merger, I believe)?

I've had so much trouble with my TA, actually caused by TWC's inept operation of their cable plant IMO, that I will probably never upgrade from my Tivo HD with lifetime to a Roamio. (Why put out multi-hundreds of dollars for a Roamio with lifetime, and then still have the same outages and tuning failures caused by the TA? I can replace hard drives and fix my HD's power supply for the indefinite future.)


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## brentil

jollygrunt777 said:


> So that HAXE update, will it also benefit the Roamio UI?


It likely will, but right now the hardware of the Roamio is so much better than the Premiere you wont likely see as much of a benefit with this update. What it will allow them to do is overtime do more.


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## southerndoc

brentil said:


> It likely will, but right now the hardware of the Roamio is so much better than the Premiere you wont likely see as much of a benefit with this update. What it will allow them to do is overtime do more.


The Roamio's UI is definitely really snappy now.


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## tomhorsley

TiVoMargret said:


> - The UI is now written in Haxe instead of Adobe Air/Flash, which is why things are faster than in 20.4.1.


So there is an actual reason to look forward to this update! Someday I'd love to read the story behind the original selection of the obviously inappropriate flash .


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## LoadStar

dlfl said:


> Can you please inform which specific operators, and whether this is ever likely to come to my TWC, Southwest Ohio (soon to become Charter as part of the Comcast/TWC merger, I believe)?


It is, in my opinion, HIGHLY unlikely that it is any operators that *don't* currently lease TiVo boxes to their subscribers.


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## Game Master

Is the rebooting issue fixed in this update?


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## DonB.

Just curious, if one did request an early update, and decided they didn't want it, is there a process to cancel.  This would be good to know for those that change their minds.



TiVoMargret said:


> (sorry for the delay in posting these)
> 
> We have begun updating TiVo Roamio, TiVo Premiere, and TiVo Mini boxes with the 20.4.2 "Summer Update". There is still time to request an early update with tivo.com/priority. Customers that don't request a priority update will be automatically updated by the end of the month.
> 
> --Margret


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## twylie

I was updated last week, even though I wasn't on the Priority Update list. Roamio Basic + 4 Mini. Zero issues. Categories not a big use for us, but nice to have more flexibility.


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## kturcotte

Is there anyway to temporarily opt out of the update? I don't currently have high speed internet at home, just my cell phone, and use it's wifi tether to get guide data to the Tivo. A large update could be an issue though.


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## profet

tomhorsley said:


> Someday I'd love to read the story behind the original selection of the obviously inappropriate flash .


As a software developer, I already know the story.

Pointy Haired Boss (PHB): We need to redesign our menus for all these new HD televisions that are out there.
Development Team (DT): Sure! We can take the design team's mockups and go ahead and create a proof of concept with some rapid prototyping using Flash.
PHB: Great!

::Some time later::

DT: Here is the proof of concept in Flash.
PHB: Wow that looks amazing! Let's get this out ASAP!
DT: Thanks. OK we'll go ahead and begin development.
PHB: What are you talking about? This is great. Let's go to market with this version.
DT: But this is a prototype. It's riddled with bugs, it's slow, its neither scalable or maintainable. It was just meant to confirm requirements and user stories.
PHB: blah... whats the difference. Let's just fix the bugs and release it.


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## wmcbrine

I think it had more to do with the capabilities of the chips TiVo chose -- ostensibly they had built-in acceleration for Flash, although we know how that turned out.


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## morac

kturcotte said:


> Is there anyway to temporarily opt out of the update? I don't currently have high speed internet at home, just my cell phone, and use it's wifi tether to get guide data to the Tivo. A large update could be an issue though.


Software updates are around 100 MB so it shouldn't be that bad, even over a cell phone with data caps, assuming 4G/LTE. A download over 3G would take awhile.


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## bareyb

Glad to hear about the categories, but FOLDERS would still be the best way to make this a truly "whole home DVR". I can't let my kids share a TiVo with me unless they have their own folder. Period. Of course, the alternative is that they get their own TiVo which is probably better for TiVo Inc's bottom line anyway...


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## shrike4242

geekmedic said:


> The Roamio's UI is definitely really snappy now.


I'll second this, my Roamio units are very snappy, not that they were horribly slow before.

My Premiere and Mini units are very noticeably faster than before 20.4.2, so it is a very nice change for a 2+ year old unit to get this much of a speed boost.


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## bareyb

shrike4242 said:


> I'll second this, my Roamio units are very snappy, not that they were horribly slow before.
> 
> My Premiere and Mini units are very noticeably faster than before 20.4.2, so it is a very nice change for a 2+ year old unit to get this much of a speed boost.


Did this update even affect Roamios? I had the impression it was only for Premieres. Personally I thought Roamios were already pretty snappy. Does this make them even more so?


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## eboydog

Game Master said:


> Is the rebooting issue fixed in this update?


There a been a couple reported, I had one reboot on my Roamio basic a couple days ago.


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## eboydog

kturcotte said:


> Is there anyway to temporarily opt out of the update? I don't currently have high speed internet at home, just my cell phone, and use it's wifi tether to get guide data to the Tivo. A large update could be an issue though.


You can contact Margret to ask but there have been reports of some already getting this who weren't signed up and I believe TiVo intends to roll it out to everyone at the end of the month.


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## sbiller

bareyb said:


> Did this update even affect Roamios? I had the impression it was only for Premieres. Personally I thought Roamios were already pretty snappy. Does this make them even more so?


Yes. :up:


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## SugarBowl

Duck Dynasty is listed under the 'Sports' category.

News, Sports, and Going Away Soon don't group shows into folders. 
Kids and TV Series do.

The movies category doesn't show the recorded date which gives more real estate to read the whole movie title. I like this.


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## Bierboy

SugarBowl said:


> Duck Dynasty is listed under the 'Sports' category...


Not a surprise...hunting is a sport.


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## mattack

Pointing out the probably obvious -- you can turn off the various categories in the leftmost column that you don't care about.

If you couldn't turn off most of them, I would've turned off the 3rd column right away. With it VERY much shorter (I think I have All, Devices, Partially Watched, and Suggestions now.. even though I essentially never watch suggestions), I may leave it on. Admittedly, partially watched is pretty useful, though I have TONS of shows in there, due to me checking whether some late night talk show had an interesting musical guest or bit.. but it seems to be most recent at the top, so if I watched some prime time show partially last night, it will be first in partially watched.. 

One thing I do miss though is now you can't just tivo tivo to get back to your list of all recordings... It *is* being consistent (tivo tivo gets you back to where you were), but still, sort of 'breaks' a longtime shortcut.


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## dcline414

Bierboy said:


> Not a surprise...hunting is a sport.


Today show, local news, NBC nightly news... all listed under TV series (even after I realized I had to manually turn on the News category).

Being able to select auto- or manual-categorization for each season pass would make this functionality infinitely more useful.


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## innocentfreak

SugarBowl said:


> Duck Dynasty is listed under the 'Sports' category.
> 
> News, Sports, and Going Away Soon don't group shows into folders.
> Kids and TV Series do.


I think this might be more to do with Tribune and less to do with the TiVo update. My Roamio which didn't get the update yet recommended Rugrats because it was a popular Animal show.


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## bareyb

mattack said:


> Pointing out the probably obvious -- you can turn off the various categories in the leftmost column that you don't care about.
> 
> If you couldn't turn off most of them, I would've turned off the 3rd column right away. With it VERY much shorter (I think I have All, Devices, Partially Watched, and Suggestions now.. even though I essentially never watch suggestions), I may leave it on. Admittedly, partially watched is pretty useful, though I have TONS of shows in there, due to me checking whether some late night talk show had an interesting musical guest or bit.. but it seems to be most recent at the top, so if I watched some prime time show partially last night, it will be first in partially watched..
> 
> *One thing I do miss though is now you can't just press tivo tivo to get back to your list of all recordings... It *is* being consistent (tivo tivo gets you back to where you were), but still, sort of 'breaks' a longtime shortcut.*


_
_
Wow. No kidding... So now you click once and then right arrow instead? That's gonna take me a while to get used to. I've been doing it the "old way" for 10 years.


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## leepoffaith

So far the update has been great for me! The interface is much quicker and I've edited the categories to have only the ones I want. I hope that in the future we are able to make our own folders and put stuff in them as well. 

Other then that I have not yet had a chance to download anything from the Roamio, but I've heard that is much faster. Other then having to reset my romaio to re-sync with the minis, I've had 0 issues. I'm very happy with this update, great job Tivo!!


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## Game Master

eboydog said:


> There a been a couple reported, I had one reboot on my Roamio basic a couple days ago.


That is a big problem with TiVo that needs to be fixed. I was in the middle of recording The Hey Dude 25th Anniversary Marathon when my TiVo did a reboot, and that's not the first time ether, it's ben happening alot.

It's making me loos faith in TiVo.


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## aaronwt

mattack said:


> Pointing out the probably obvious -- you can turn off the various categories in the leftmost column that you don't care about.
> 
> ............


If you turn off the category then any shows that were in it will only show up when you view the "all category". At least that was how it worked when I had a couple of shows that were in the "Kids" category. When I removed the category i could only get to them by looking at the all category. So I needed to leave the Kids category in place.


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## jrtroo

aaronwt said:


> If you turn off the category then any shows that were in it will only show up when you view the "all category".


How else would it work?

I imagine there will be many more complaints to tribune services over this. But, I have no issues with that as it will likely help suggestions as well, which I use extensively...


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## FitzAusTex

A couple of weird ones as far as documentaries... 

Recorded "Making: The Leftovers" from HBO, listed as Documentary, Special, Entertainment and the same thing for "PBS Previews: The Roosevelts" listed as Documentary, Special. These two only show up in All, and not movies. When a title is tagged as only Documentary, it appears in Movies. Didn't realize there might be recordings that might ONLY appear in All. 

Also believe I've mentioned it before, but odd that sports recordings like World Cup appear in TV Series, when it is tagged Soccer, Sports Event, Sports. 

Hoping Tivo plans to further refine some of this.


----------



## [email protected]

Not finding all the movies in the 'movies' category. Not sure why, but they are from the 1930's, '40's etc. But it could be because I copied them over from the TiVo this one replaced.


----------



## morac

I'm not sure why, but @Midnight shows up under the News category.


----------



## Icarus

SugarBowl said:


> Duck Dynasty is listed under the 'Sports' category.


hahaha .. I noticed that also.


----------



## kturcotte

morac said:


> Software updates are around 100 MB so it shouldn't be that bad, even over a cell phone with data caps, assuming 4G/LTE. A download over 3G would take awhile.


It'll be interesting. I'm with Sprint, and while we technically have unlimited data, once you go over 5GBs (Which I've already done this month), they throttle you down to almost dial up speeds.


----------



## ustavio

Well Geez, I haven't received the update but I appear to be getting some "pre update" gremlins. After the regularly scheduled service connection this evening, there were some strange results. My lifetime subscription disappeared. My Wish Lists disappeared and my entire To Do List disappeared. I suspect the summer update will occur at 2:30 AM because the next regular service connection was scheduled for tomorrow night and was changed to 2:30 AM. I was not able to connect to Netflix and there was no guide available (because my subscription evaporated). 

I did several forced service connections and was able to get back my Wish Lists and my Life Time Subscription was "returned". But my To Do List is still gone. Nothing. Nada. Zip. I logged both 911 and 777 entries for the heck of it. I don't know whether or not any of the shows scheduled to be recorded were actually recorded because, frankly, I don't recall what was scheduled for this evening. 

This is quite annoying to say the least. I'll wait and see if I actually get the summer update I suspect in the queue...and hope that it restores the To Do List. I don't recall ever having so many issues surface PRIOR to an update. I sure hope it is not a harbinger of things to come.


----------



## wmcbrine

ustavio said:


> I logged both 911 and 777 entries for the heck of it.


----------



## dianebrat

ustavio said:


> I logged both 911 and 777 entries for the heck of it.





wmcbrine said:


>


If I remember correctly those were the codes we used to use in the beta testing to flag entries/logs for the tech team to examine more closely, not sure they would do anything on a non-beta Tivo


----------



## ustavio

dianebrat said:


> If I remember correctly those were the codes we used to use in the beta testing to flag entries/logs for the tech team to examine more closely, not sure they would do anything on a non-beta Tivo


It is my understanding that the codes will still plant flags in the logs of any individual TiVo (that still gets updates), whether beta or not. If the flagged issue escalates and tech support reviews the logs for a given serial number, it helps narrow the focus. Usually has to be kicked up stairs as the average CSR may or may not have a clue.

BTW, did not get the update as I thought I might but my To Do list re-materialized after the early morning service connection (that was not the update). Everything seems to be back to "normal". The whole experience was just plain odd.


----------



## bradleys

Very interesting...

Stream Content to browser - I am really looking forward to that!


----------



## shrike4242

That second picture with the Android tablet shows the updated iOS version of the Tivo app, so maybe there is hope for Android show downloads + streaming. 

Since I found a good process to download and encode shows with kttmg + VideoReDo + HandBrake into nice small MKV files, streaming would still be nice to have over the encoding process.


----------



## eboydog

ustavio said:


> Well Geez, I haven't received the update but I appear to be getting some "pre update" gremlins. After the regularly scheduled service connection this evening, there were some strange results. My lifetime subscription disappeared. My Wish Lists disappeared and my entire To Do List disappeared. I suspect the summer update will occur at 2:30 AM because the next regular service connection was scheduled for tomorrow night and was changed to 2:30 AM. I was not able to connect to Netflix and there was no guide available (because my subscription evaporated).
> 
> I did several forced service connections and was able to get back my Wish Lists and my Life Time Subscription was "returned". But my To Do List is still gone. Nothing. Nada. Zip. I logged both 911 and 777 entries for the heck of it. I don't know whether or not any of the shows scheduled to be recorded were actually recorded because, frankly, I don't recall what was scheduled for this evening.
> 
> This is quite annoying to say the least. I'll wait and see if I actually get the summer update I suspect in the queue...and hope that it restores the To Do List. I don't recall ever having so many issues surface PRIOR to an update. I sure hope it is not a harbinger of things to come.


That's interesting, I would recommend you call Tivo and let them know such occured.


----------



## eboydog

bradleys said:


> Very interesting...
> 
> Stream Content to browser - I am really looking forward to that!


Were did you get this ??


----------



## tomhorsley

Stream content to browser is good, but even better would be if there was an HTLM5 version of the interface so I could do anything from a browser - schedule recordings, delete shows, change channels, etc.


----------



## Jed1

The change to haxe made me sign up my two Premier 4s on Sunday to the priority list. I got the update late Monday afternoon and I restarted both TiVos and I am really impressed with the responsiveness in the HD menus. I haven't had any issues at all that I can report yet. The change to the Roamio menu makes it feel like I just got two brand new TiVos.


----------



## aridon

I got the update a few minutes ago. Seemed to install fine but my picture viewing is all jacked up.

Bascially the Tivo interface takes up the full screen but when I go to watch something the video remains stuck in the PIP format despite it being in full screen.

Video:






I've tried several software reboots and a hard reboot (power plug) and nothing seems to be fixing the issue.

I've also tried redoing my resolutions and that didn't help either.

Any suggestions would be welcome.

EDIT:

searching around found this:

1. Press TiVo button

2. Press Thumbs Down, Thumbs Up, Play, Play

That worked.


----------



## NorthAlabama

aridon said:


> I got the update a few minutes ago. Seemed to install fine but my picture viewing is all jacked up.
> 
> Bascially the Tivo interface takes up the full screen but when I go to watch something the video remains stuck in the PIP format despite it being in full screen.
> 
> I've tried several software reboots and a hard reboot (power plug) and nothing seems to be fixing the issue.
> 
> Any suggestions would be welcome.


i've seen this once since the update, here was my suggestion in another thread:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10176913#post10176913​


----------



## aridon

This worked:

1. Press TiVo button

2. Press Thumbs Down, Thumbs Up, Play, Play


----------



## mrfantasy

My Roamio was rebooting around once a day on 20.3.8, but since 20.4.1 it had stopped rebooting, and as of the 20.4.2 install hasn't restarted either.



Game Master said:


> That is a big problem with TiVo that needs to be fixed. I was in the middle of recording The Hey Dude 25th Anniversary Marathon when my TiVo did a reboot, and that's not the first time ether, it's ben happening alot.
> 
> It's making me loos faith in TiVo.


----------



## bradleys

eboydog said:


> Were did you get this ??


https://github.com/kulick/wwx2014

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/kulick/wwx2014/master/WWX2014.pdf


----------



## nooneuknow

dianebrat said:


> If I remember correctly those were the codes we used to use in the beta testing to flag entries/logs for the tech team to examine more closely, not sure they would do anything on a non-beta Tivo


Beta testers were just heavily instructed to use them. They are functional for everybody. A call to a CSR, in a case where they place your TiVo being under "log monitoring", results in instruction on how/when to use them. Even when not on log monitoring, they are active, and place markers in your logs. So, if you use them, and call right-away, they can still be of use.

911-clear = A simple marker of the date and time, mostly used to mark after an unexpected reboot, or an issue that forces you to pull the power to reboot.
777-clear = The same, plus additional diagnostic logging is initiated, mostly for anything that can cause AV issues.

Both are ONLY functional from Live TV viewing mode.

911-clear: Get to Live TV ASAP, and use it after any event you want a SIMPLE marker to in your logs.

777-clear: Generally only useful when watching Live TV in realtime (not in the back-buffer), to help diagnose what just caused your AV glitch.

BOTH can be used as many times as needed, but require TWO back to back MANUAL service connections to insure TiVo gets everything they may need.

I use them to help me find my place(s) when viewing my logs via TiVo Backdoor.

Before anybody asks how to get there, consider that if you don't know how to get there, you probably won't know what to do with what is in there.

How to get there: clear-clear-enter-enter-0 from the System Information screen. Don't use if you aren't willing to risk the TiVo becoming unstable, possibly requiring a reboot to resolve.


----------



## jollygrunt777

bradleys said:


> Very interesting...
> 
> Stream Content to browser - I am really looking forward to that!


Could "xbox", under hypothetical, also include ps3/4 and WiiU even though it's not actually stated?


----------



## Grakthis

jollygrunt777 said:


> Could "xbox", under hypothetical, also include ps3/4 and WiiU even though it's not actually stated?


It could, but Xbox has been more media friendly than the PS3/4 so I think Xbox One would be their first target and most likely partner.


----------



## elwaylite

Out of curiosity, missing Amazon as a video provider did not remove the tv show/movie file download ability did it?


----------



## bradleys

elwaylite said:


> Out of curiosity, missing Amazon as a video provider did not remove the tv show/movie file download ability did it?


No


----------



## elwaylite

bradleys said:


> No


Thanks.

I use this for like 12 shows a week, would hurt if they did LOL


----------



## ustavio

nooneuknow said:


> Beta testers were just heavily instructed to use them. They are functional for everybody. A call to a CSR, in a case where they place your TiVo being under "log monitoring", results in instruction on how/when to use them. Even when not on log monitoring, they are active, and place markers in your logs. So, if you use them, and call right-away, they can still be of use.
> 
> 911-clear = A simple marker of the date and time, mostly used to mark after an unexpected reboot, or an issue that forces you to pull the power to reboot.
> 777-clear = The same, plus additional diagnostic logging is initiated, mostly for anything that can cause AV issues.
> 
> Both are ONLY functional from Live TV viewing mode.
> 
> 911-clear: Get to Live TV ASAP, and use it after any event you want a SIMPLE marker to in your logs.
> 
> 777-clear: Generally only useful when watching Live TV in realtime (not in the back-buffer), to help diagnose what just caused your AV glitch.
> 
> BOTH can be used as many times as needed, but require TWO back to back MANUAL service connections to insure TiVo gets everything they may need.
> 
> I use them to help me find my place(s) when viewing my logs via TiVo Backdoor.
> 
> Before anybody asks how to get there, consider that if you don't know how to get there, you probably won't know what to do with what is in there.
> 
> How to get there: clear-clear-enter-enter-0 from the System Information screen. Don't use if you aren't willing to risk the TiVo becoming unstable, possibly requiring a reboot to resolve.


Superb explanation. It also helps to make note of the date, time and particular issue, problem or symptoms experienced. A little sleuthing can also help i.e what else was going on when the problem occurred? for example, some of the Netflix related reboots I experienced in the past occurred suspiciously close to scheduled service connections. As it turned out, TiVo discovered a service connection related reboot bug that was fixed in a subsequent update.

I keep a spiral note book to maintain my own "log" of details. That and the 911 and 777 codes can and have proven helpful when talking to a CSR. It goes on record and, in my case has, at times enabled communication with folks higher up the food chain.

RE: TiVo backdoor. Heed this admonition. Sometimes it's better to not "boldly go where no one has been before".


----------



## KLINK

TiVoMargret said:


> (sorry for the delay in posting these)
> 
> We have begun updating TiVo Roamio, TiVo Premiere, and TiVo Mini boxes with the 20.4.2 "Summer Update". There is still time to request an early update with tivo.com/priority. Customers that don't request a priority update will be automatically updated by the end of the month.
> 
> Here are some of the changes:
> - TiVo Premiere and TiVo Mini boxes will now have the same visual look as TiVo Roamio. (Colors & font.)
> - The UI is now written in Haxe instead of Adobe Air/Flash, which is why things are faster than in 20.4.1.
> - My Shows now offers an optional left-column with a list of categories you can turn on/off & rearrange to make it easier to find the show you're looking for. Categories include: All, Partially watched, Going away soon, TV Series, Movies, Kids, Sports, News, Suggestions, Video Providers, and Devices. Use the A button in My Shows to change these settings.
> Video: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbJmbXU4PlU[/media]
> 
> - If you press INFO on a show in the Guide, it will indicate if that episode is available from a video provider, so you can watch it right away.
> - HuffPost Live app now available in Apps & Games
> - Fixed a problem where large recordings couldn't always be permanently deleted from the recently deleted folder
> - Fixed issues related to video freezing when the TiVo's HDMI was connected to an Xbox
> - DVR diagnostics should now correctly report QAM modulation
> - Fixed issues related to HDMI snow appearing when YouTube videos changed frame rate
> - Default recording options should now be respected when a WishList is set up from Search
> - Fixed performance problems related to transferring video from a Roamio
> - Fixed the occasional bursts of static some customers would randomly hear
> - Fixed the pixelation that would appear at the beginning of downloaded videos
> 
> --Margret


Margret-

It did not fix the problem of large recordings not being permanently deleted on my Elite box. I sent you an email last Thur. on this subject and I still can't delete the recording.


----------



## mattack

The Aspect ratio bug that others have mentioned is I think the only really 'bad' regression that I've seen that I can think of at the moment... It seems to happen at least once a day, where I have to hit zoom zoom zoom to get back to Panel mode.. (While I'm recording way more HD stuff than I used to -- ironically since the HD group is now gone -- I still record a lot of SD stuff for space reasons.. currently, I think both of my Tivos that I actually use are on stock drives..)


----------



## innocentfreak

Just had my first random reboot on my Pro. I was fast forwarding and it froze. Then resumed for a second only to then reboot.


----------



## nooneuknow

ustavio said:


> Superb explanation. It also helps to make note of the date, time and particular issue, problem or symptoms experienced. A little sleuthing can also help i.e what else was going on when the problem occurred? for example, some of the Netflix related reboots I experienced in the past occurred suspiciously close to scheduled service connections. As it turned out, TiVo discovered a service connection related reboot bug that was fixed in a subsequent update.
> 
> I keep a spiral note book to maintain my own "log" of details. That and the 911 and 777 codes can and have proven helpful when talking to a CSR. It goes on record and, in my case has, at times enabled communication with folks higher up the food chain.
> 
> RE: TiVo backdoor. Heed this admonition. Sometimes it's better to not "boldly go where no one has been before".


Thank You. 

It sounds like we both do things in a way that makes it possible to compare notes, then. It does help A LOT to write down when the sequences are used, and why they were used. It can also help a high-tier TiVo CS Rep to find their way and know why you chose to mark that spot. It isn't always obvious, just by seeing the timestamp and not knowing what it was put there for. If you can tell them when and why, that makes it much easier for them to know what to look for, as well as for your own convenience.

Far too often, a CSR looking at logs, not knowing what they are looking for, will look for things like "rebooted due to power loss", or "TA communication link down", when those events may have been your own intentional actions as part of your own troubleshooting.


----------



## lgnad

Ok, my Roamio totally, well, I don't know what it did tonight. It had been pretty much 100% rock solid, I've owned it for quite a while, etc. I got early release of the new software and its been running fine..

It had apparently crashed a few times and missed chunks of 8pm and 9pm recordings. Recording history stated that it "lost power" for all 8pm and 9pm programs but we didn't lose power and the XL4 taped stuff fine all night. When I powered on my tv around 9:45pm it said it didnt have any guide data (though the guide was populated) and was at 95% of processing a download. It then hung on a black screen when I tried to play a recording, HDUI reset did nothing and after a few minutes it rebooted on its own. I had nothing in the todo (and all my season passes were greyed out like there were no upcoming shows) and it was scheduled to call home in one hour.
I forced a connection and after it processed, I have my todo list back, but I can see that its going to record shows it already did, like it has forgotten everything its recorded. 
A few minutes ago, I found that its forgotten my customizations to the channel lineup, with all of the SD channels active and many of the HD's unchecked, etc.

So, my Roamio has basically been rolled back. Yay. Now I get to hope that this isnt the 1st sign that Ive got a dying unit.


----------



## ustavio

Something wacky must be going on with TiVo. Same thing I describe as happening earlier with my Roamio...loss of to Do list, loss of lifetime subscription, etc...and the multiple service connections necessary to restore normal operations, also occurred with our Series 3 TiVo HD last night. This time a soft reboot was necessary but it resulted in a frozen UI. It took a hard reboot to restore normal operation. And this with no summer update!

This all falls into the WTF category. I am not excited or optimistic about the update.


----------



## Bierboy

mattack said:


> The Aspect ratio bug that others have mentioned is I think the only really 'bad' regression that I've seen that I can think of at the moment... It seems to happen at least once a day, where I have to hit zoom zoom zoom to get back to Panel mode....


And what is VERY irritating is they won't admit there's a problem. I have posted this issue in Margret's Twitter feed and e-mailed her, and I haven't gotten the courtesy of a response...


----------



## Bierboy

And I finally received this from Margret today - " Sorry. We are testing a fix now. It should be included in the next update." She doesn't say when....


----------



## bareyb

Bierboy said:


> And I finally received this from Margret today - " Sorry. We are testing a fix now. It should be included in the next update." She doesn't say when....


To be fair, she probably doesn't know that yet.


----------



## lgnad

ustavio said:


> Something wacky must be going on with TiVo. Same thing I describe as happening earlier with my Roamio...loss of to Do list, loss of lifetime subscription, etc...and the multiple service connections necessary to restore normal operations, also occurred with our Series 3 TiVo HD last night. This time a soft reboot was necessary but it resulted in a frozen UI. It took a hard reboot to restore normal operation. And this with no summer update!
> 
> This all falls into the WTF category. I am not excited or optimistic about the update.


Well, that gives me some hope that it's some sort of back-end software issue, which is preferable to my hardware dying!!


----------



## aaronwt

Bierboy said:


> And what is VERY irritating is they won't admit there's a problem. I have posted this issue in Margret's Twitter feed and e-mailed her, and I haven't gotten the courtesy of a response...


I've still have not run into this from either of my Roamios. Whether HD content or SD content it has worked the same way as before.


----------



## Bierboy

aaronwt said:


> I've still have not run into this from either of my Roamios. Whether HD content or SD content it has worked the same way as before.


Her response (above) indicates it's a known issue...


----------



## innocentfreak

Had my second reboot now since the update. It seems like it is the return of a previous issue. It only seems to happen if I hit the buttons quickly to fast forward. The TiVo locks up and then reboots.


----------



## S3Convert

My roamio reboots every other day, usually when switching channels. The screen goes blank and it goes through a 5 minute start up. A real pain in the ass. I emailed Margaret two weeks ago and hope a fix is coming

I have not received the summer update. Still at 20.4.1.


----------



## dianebrat

S3Convert said:


> My roamio reboots every other day, usually when switching channels. The screen goes blank and it goes through a 5 minute start up. A real pain in the ass. I emailed Margaret two weeks ago and hope a fix is coming
> 
> I have not received the summer update. Still at 20.4.1.


I'd suggest bringing this up in another thread since your issue has nothing to do with 20.4.2 which is the focus of this thread.


----------



## snitm

I found a bug with 20.4.2 and SD menus. If I use SD menus then selecting video ondemand services brings up a screen that says my local network connection is down. But if I go to the network settings and test the connection (or connect to Tivo) all works fine. If I then swicth back to HD menus I can easily access Netflix, Comcast on Demand, etc.

So it seems there is a bug in the old-style SD menu (which presents a different way to navigate to video ondemand services.


----------



## slowbiscuit

You're in the wrong forum, Roamios only have the HD menu choice. Go post over in Premiere.


----------



## Game Master

mrfantasy said:


> My Roamio was rebooting around once a day on 20.3.8, but since 20.4.1 it had stopped rebooting, and as of the 20.4.2 install hasn't restarted either.


My TiVo Roamio was on 20.4.1 when it was rebooting like that. I can't try the 20.4.2 in tell Aug. 15th or 16, because I am up north.


----------



## S3Convert

dianebrat said:


> I'd suggest bringing this up in another thread since your issue has nothing to do with 20.4.2 which is the focus of this thread.


I get your point. I was reading through this thread and a previous post mentioned with the new update a similar issue. Thus my post; not a hijack.


----------



## dianebrat

S3Convert said:


> I get your point. I was reading through this thread and a previous post mentioned with the new update a similar issue. Thus my post; not a hijack.


Still not the best place since the root of your reboot issues can't possibly be 20.4.2, there are more than a few threads dealing with reboots out there.


----------



## SatManager

I just got my Roamio Pro just two weeks ago and it just downloaded the new update. There is a message that is displayed across the top that I haven't yet figured out how to select the update button yet. I have been worried to do anything else without asking since this is my first TiVo, but how do I update the software?


----------



## nooneuknow

SatManager said:


> I just got my Roamio Pro just two weeks ago and it just downloaded the new update. There is a message that is displayed across the top that I haven't yet figured out how to select the update button yet. I have been worried to do anything else without asking since this is my first TiVo, but how do I update the software?


Confused... Can you do a screen shot of this "message" you speak of?


----------



## dianebrat

SatManager said:


> I just got my Roamio Pro just two weeks ago and it just downloaded the new update. There is a message that is displayed across the top that I haven't yet figured out how to select the update button yet. I have been worried to do anything else without asking since this is my first TiVo,* but how do I update the software?*


You don't, it does it automatically, what's the message you're seeing?


----------



## digitalfirefly

TiVoMargret said:


> (sorry for the delay in posting these)
> - Fixed the occasional bursts of static some customers would randomly hear


Anyone have clarification on this one? I'm having an issue with one of my Premieres where the screen will go snowy and audio will go static for about 2 seconds, then go back to normal. I'm wondering if it's the same thing.


----------



## JC Fedorczyk

SatManager said:


> I just got my Roamio Pro just two weeks ago and it just downloaded the new update. There is a message that is displayed across the top that I haven't yet figured out how to select the update button yet. I have been worried to do anything else without asking since this is my first TiVo, but how do I update the software?


Is this the registration message by chance asking you to set the Tivo up with Tivo itself?


----------



## eboydog

digitalfirefly said:


> Anyone have clarification on this one? I'm having an issue with one of my Premieres where the screen will go snowy and audio will go static for about 2 seconds, then go back to normal. I'm wondering if it's the same thing.


The static burst typically hasn't involved issue with video but who knows. The static bursts would just last very short time and usually involved pausing, fastwording and then going back to normal play.

With what you describe sounds more like a hardware issue such as a bad HDMI port or HDMI cable given it involves both audio and video. Sign up for the early release and see what happens, it usually takes about 48 hours after signing up for your box to receive it. If it continues afterward, you might want to contact TiVo support esp if a warranty replacment is required. Bad and or flacky HDMI ports on the Roamio, while uncommon do occur but replace the HDMI cable first including a different tv or different HDMI port on the tv in question.


----------



## javabird

mattack said:


> Pointing out the probably obvious -- you can turn off the various categories in the leftmost column that you don't care about.
> .


I can't figure out how to do this. Can you explain? I just want to turn off Sports and leave the other categories.


----------



## javabird

javabird said:


> I can't figure out how to do this. Can you explain? I just want to turn off Sports and leave the other categories.


Ok, figured it out but it wasn't obvious (to me):

Click "A" > select Left column - Show categories > select to toggle on/off the categories to hide > scroll back up to "Show these categories" and press Select > select "Use these options in my shows" to save changes.


----------



## HarperVision

javabird said:


> I can't figure out how to do this. Can you explain? I just want to turn off Sports and leave the other categories.


BLASPHEMER!!!


----------



## morac

I've noticed that since upgrading occasionally I'll get weird video glitches where the picture breaks up when watching live TV. When I rewind back and replay, the glitches go away. I've also not seen them when playing back recordings or watching from the buffer. I've only seen them watching "live".


----------



## lessd

morac said:


> I've noticed that since upgrading occasionally I'll get weird video glitches where the picture breaks up when watching live TV. When I rewind back and replay, the glitches go away. I've also not seen them when playing back recordings or watching from the buffer. I've only seen them watching "live".


I have seen this also but so little I never reported it as I don't know for sure that it did not come from the cable xmission itself. I have seen it on recorded programs, back up it is still there. I almost never watch live.


----------



## nooneuknow

morac said:


> I've noticed that since upgrading occasionally I'll get weird video glitches where the picture breaks up when watching live TV. When I rewind back and replay, the glitches go away. I've also not seen them when playing back recordings or watching from the buffer. I've only seen them watching "live".


I have seen this, too.

I'll provide the same advice a decent CSR, and TiVoMargret would provide (for all). This is a perfect issue for using log marking and log monitoring for.

If you aren't doing so already, I suggest pressing 777-clear every time this happens, then 911-clear, while having your TSN placed on "log monitoring". When using these, it must be in Live TV viewing mode, preferably without being in the back-buffer (true live TV), and clear must be pressed before the channel can change.

The 777 part puts a date/time stamp in the logs, along with extended diagnostic information. The 911 part just adds a simple date/time stamp. The third part makes sure you aren't doing the first part for nothing. If the TiVo isn't on log monitoring, TiVo can still see the log entries, but only if you call in and ask a CSR to pull up your logs.

It's also a good idea to keep your own list of the times you press either sequence, and why you did. I know I've posted this before. This is just the exact kind of issue that using this on should get you an answer as to why. It's not the cable signal, if backing-up and replaying resolves the AV glitch.


----------



## morac

lessd said:


> I have seen this also but so little I never reported it as I don't know for sure that it did not come from the cable xmission itself. I have seen it on recorded programs, back up it is still there. I almost never watch live.


If it's still there on the instant replay, it's most likely with the cable stream. If it goes away on an instant replay (like in my case), it's either a failing drive or a software bug. If it only happens "live" (again like my case), it's almost certainly a software bug.


----------



## SatManager

nooneuknow said:


> Confused... Can you do a screen shot of this "message" you speak of?


I haven't been able to get the message to come back up again after the first day, second, how do you do the screen shot other than take a picture of the TV? The screen shots that I have seen seem more professional than that.

The message was one line and started with a white message balloon indicator, Asked about did I want to update the software now and there were selection buttons for Update and Cancel.

I never could figure out how to select either of the selection buttons.


----------



## JolDC

SatManager said:


> I haven't been able to get the message to come back up again after the first day, second, how do you do the screen shot other than take a picture of the TV? The screen shots that I have seen seem more professional than that.
> 
> The message was one line and started with a white message balloon indicator, Asked about did I want to update the software now and there were selection buttons for Update and Cancel.
> 
> I never could figure out how to select either of the selection buttons.


Do you have a "Smart TV"? What you describe isn't part of the TiVo UI and reminds me of when my TV has an update to apply. You probably couldn't get to the buttons because you needed to use the TV remote.


----------



## eboydog

JolDC said:


> Do you have a "Smart TV"? What you describe isn't part of the TiVo UI and reminds me of when my TV has an update to apply. You probably couldn't get to the buttons because you needed to use the TV remote.


I wonder if that's the case, I have never heard of a TiVo prompting for an update in the manner described.

Cell phone camera is about the easiest way to grab the screen shot.


----------



## ejonesss

"The UI is now written in Haxe instead of Adobe Air/Flash, which is why things are faster than in 20.4.1."

that's good especially for security since adobe flash has been attacked and is very insecure and probably will never be securable.(not that anyone has tried to attack tivo boxes ui and make it into a botnet but if proprietary compiler is used to write the software then it is alot more secure.



a suggestion:

you may want to fix the problem where sometimes shows can get a corruption that causes the downloader to abort.


----------



## innocentfreak

Another day another reboot.


----------



## javabird

HarperVision said:


> BLASPHEMER!!!


Ha-ha, sorry about that.

But I really like the new categories! Now, I just wish they had one for "Documentaries."


----------



## jmbissell

javabird said:


> Ok, figured it out but it wasn't obvious (to me):
> 
> Click "A" > select Left column - Show categories > select to toggle on/off the categories to hide > scroll back up to "Show these categories" and press Select > select "Use these options in my shows" to save changes.


Is there a way, after hiding the new Categories panel on the left side, to revert to having the long titles for My Shows?

Previously, I'd see different descriptions for episodes of shows, e.g.
The Sixties: The Space Race
The Sixties: A Long March to Freedom

Now I just see two entries that both say "The Sixties".
I have to scroll to the show line to see the description on the right. This makes it slower to pick one episode over the other.
Interestingly, shows that are in the Recently Deleted list retain their full title.

As to any speedup: on my Roamio there is still a several second pause when I Clear a show from My Shows before it moves to the next show.

And, of course, none of the SD menus have been redone in HD.


----------



## L David Matheny

jmbissell said:


> Is there a way, after hiding the new Categories panel on the left side, to revert to having the long titles for My Shows?
> 
> Previously, I'd see different descriptions for episodes of shows, e.g.
> The Sixties: The Space Race
> The Sixties: A Long March to Freedom
> 
> Now I just see two entries that both say "The Sixties".
> I have to scroll to the show line to see the description on the right. This makes it slower to pick one episode over the other.
> Interestingly, shows that are in the Recently Deleted list retain their full title.


I noticed that too, and it's definitely a significant step backwards for the My Shows list. But if they can show the full title in the Recently Deleted list, surely they can fix it for the main list in the next maintenance release.


----------



## azreael344

All 3 of my minis got the 4.2 update, all got the update about a week ago, but my main box my Roamio plus still hasn't gotten the update.........it's still running 4.1. Even if i try to force the update it still doesn't get it. Anybody else have this issue?


----------



## Bierboy

azreael344 said:


> All 3 of my minis got the 4.2 update, all got the update about a week ago, but my main box my Roamio plus still hasn't gotten the update.........it's still running 4.1. Even if i try to force the update it still doesn't get it. Anybody else have this issue?


It's not an "issue". It's just the way TiVo is rolling out the update...


----------



## azreael344

Bierboy said:


> It's not an "issue". It's just the way TiVo is rolling out the update...


But shouldn't all of my boxes gotten the update at the same time?


----------



## dianebrat

azreael344 said:


> But shouldn't all of my boxes gotten the update at the same time?


No, it doesn't work that way, Tivo rolls the update out across all machines in waves.


----------



## jmbissell

L David Matheny said:


> I noticed that too, and it's definitely a significant step backwards for the My Shows list. But if they can show the full title in the Recently Deleted list, surely they can fix it for the main list in the next maintenance release.


The full title is also in the To Do list. I can understand shortening it if you have the Categories view enabled but once that is hidden then My Shows should revert to its previous format.


----------



## tomhorsley

azreael344 said:


> But shouldn't all of my boxes gotten the update at the same time?


Which makes me wonder about simultaneous update and MOCA. What if your Roamio acting as a MOCA bridge decides to reboot and install the update while your minis are trying to download the update over MOCA?.

Spreading out the updates over time seems like a good way to avoid problems like that.


----------



## lpwcomp

tomhorsley said:


> Which makes me wonder about simultaneous update and MOCA. What if your Roamio acting as a MOCA bridge decides to reboot and install the update while your minis are trying to download the update over MOCA?.


Exactly the same thing that happens anytime you lose a network connection at that point.


----------



## bareyb

Just got it on my Premiere Elite. I didn't even know I'd been updated until I used it. I knew immediately that it was faster and more responsive. It made a huge difference for me. BIG improvement. :up:


----------



## turtleguy

Noticed two thing with update on my roamio basic- 1) When I lose/gain a channel on my tuning adapter, tivo used to send me an alert message to note the change...doesn't do that now (just lost fearnet channel). 2) If i go to explore cast/crew on a show, it doesn't window the current feed while I am viewing the information. Also, noticed the change to recorded shows being less info.

update - never mind... both issues normal now.


----------



## morac

Had my first reboot under this release. I was in the guide and pressed record on a movie, selected recording options and then selected view other showings. The GUI froze for about 30 seconds. It then resumed and almost immediately after my Roamio Pro rebooted.

When it booted back up, I did the same thing and it worked as expected.


----------



## mrizzo80

Anyone else still experiencing Netflix cover art load issues when you open Netflix? This started either with this release or shortly before it.


----------



## NJguy

I still have not received this update on my Roamio. Got the update on all 3 mini's but still showing 20.4.1 on my Roamio. I've also recently been losing my 5th & 6th tuner with the dreaded V58 error and haven't had any issues with that in a long time. Is there a way for me to force the update to my Roamio? It has restarted a number of times and I manually did it too and so far no update.


----------



## ustavio

mrizzo80 said:


> Anyone else still experiencing Netflix cover art load issues when you open Netflix? This started either with this release or shortly before it.


I have the same issue. Began after update for me. Netflix UI update occurred around same time. Doesn't seem like Tivo and Netflix are in sync with their updates (no surprise here).

I've also noticed that Netflix either pops in at Super HD or less than SD. A coin toss. Often have to back out of a show and restart it to get 1080p. Never have this issue with HBO GO et.al. 
Don't know why Netflix is so adverse to letting their stream buffer and/or optimize before a show begins.


----------



## Game Master

I got the update on my Roamio Basic on August 2, and now I don't see the Netflix, Hulu Plus, You Tube and Amazon Instant Video apps.


----------



## aaronwt

ustavio said:


> I have the same issue. Began after update for me. Netflix UI update occurred around same time. Doesn't seem like Tivo and Netflix are in sync with their updates (no surprise here).
> 
> I've also noticed that Netflix either pops in at Super HD or less than SD. A coin toss. Often have to back out of a show and restart it to get 1080p. Never have this issue with HBO GO et.al.
> Don't know why Netflix is so adverse to letting their stream buffer and/or optimize before a show begins.


Because their research has shown that most people want the show to start playing as soon as possible instead of waiting longer. So it starts at a low bitrate and ramps up. That way it can start playing quickly.


----------



## FitzAusTex

I got the Summer update around July 9, but the Netflix art issue just started for me last week. As such, I'm inclined to say they're not related, but that's obviously just my experience.


----------



## trip1eX

Game Master said:


> I got the update on my Roamio Basic on August 2, and now I don't see the Netflix, Hulu Plus, You Tube and Amazon Instant Video apps.


...calling Amazon Instant Video an app is a stretch. 

It's closer to a command line prompt. 

/tangent /micro-rant /besides the point


----------



## goldenmonkey

Is the new update horribly slow for anyone? Not all of the time, but at random times, usually when pulling up a show to watch from 'My Shows', the screen just before I choose to play the video takes 5-10 seconds to load with a spinning blue circle. Other times while searching or selecting to record from the guide, same blue circle.

The update seems like it has introduced a lot of lag points when it should be doing the opposite. Anything to fix it short of a clear and delete all


----------



## majormc

Game Master said:


> I got the update on my Roamio Basic on August 2, and now I don't see the Netflix, Hulu Plus, You Tube and Amazon Instant Video apps.


I have this exact same issue. Especially miss Xfinity On-Demand and Hulu Plus. Haven't found a lot of squawking about this. Does that mean that most people's systems are still working okay, and we are a small minority?


----------



## Game Master

majormc said:


> I have this exact same issue. Especially miss Xfinity On-Demand and Hulu Plus. Haven't found a lot of squawking about this. Does that mean that most people's systems are still working okay, and we are a small minority?


 I guss it dose mean that we are a small minority.

I found a solution to the problem. Unplug the cable modem or router then plug it back in, then reconnect the TiVo


----------



## slowbiscuit

goldenmonkey said:


> Is the new update horribly slow for anyone? Not all of the time, but at random times, usually when pulling up a show to watch from 'My Shows', the screen just before I choose to play the video takes 5-10 seconds to load with a spinning blue circle. Other times while searching or selecting to record from the guide, same blue circle.


You could be having drive issues, haven't seen this since the update and have watched a ton of stuff as always. I do see a black screen with no video on playback on rare occasions but that's not what you're talking about.


----------



## jcthorne

Mine was slow during the first 24 hours or so after the update. Once all the databases had finished reindexing (assumption) it sped up markedly. My Shows list is much snappier than before on both my Roamio and Premieres.


----------



## DeltaOne

Last night was one of the rare nights when we had more than six programs set to record at 9 pm. When checking the To Do list I found that when selecting the to-be-skippped program the TiVo highlighted the six recordings that were causing the conflict. I think that's really neat!

Has this feature been there? Or new with 20.4.2?

BTW, the skipped program was rebroadcast overnight and the TiVo recorded it then.


----------



## aaronwt

DeltaOne said:


> Last night was one of the rare nights when we had more than six programs set to record at 9 pm. When checking the To Do list I found that when selecting the to-be-skippped program the TiVo highlighted the six recordings that were causing the conflict. I think that's really neat!
> 
> Has this feature been there? Or new with 20.4.2?
> 
> BTW, the skipped program was rebroadcast overnight and the TiVo recorded it then.


I think that has been there since launch. It is certainly not new.


----------



## ustavio

aaronwt said:


> Because their research has shown that most people want the show to start playing as soon as possible instead of waiting longer. So it starts at a low bitrate and ramps up. That way it can start playing quickly.


Well I suppose it makes perfect sense to do it that way. However, unfortunately, there enough times that it doesn't ramp up past 480p (on what is clearly identified as HD), or at best it may get to 720p. and never get to 1080p. Sometimes it stays at 288p or 384p and no higher. All this applies to shows that, at other times, will pop right in at 1080p. I have a 60/40 download speed and throughput averages 16-20.Since the Netflix/Fios deal, everything has mostly been hunky dory. The summer update didn't affect things one way or the other. Netflix UI updates sometimes muck things up but they usually release a fix fairly quick.

I have found that if I grow impatient with blurry sub SD or find that midway through a show it still hasn't bumped to 1080p, it will do so if I back out (sometimes more than once) and resume the show. HBO GO, GO, Showtime ,Epix will all buffer/optimize but it takes at most 10 seconds. I don't mind this but I can fully understand why research would indicate that a majority of viewers would be content with crappy quality as long as they don't have to wait a few seconds.

I suppose I'm one of the minority that would wait a few seconds to get quality I pay for. It seems to take more time and effort to reload a show than to wait.


----------



## ejonesss

ever since the update i am noticing that the episode titles are not showing.

for example deadliest catch is showing as deadliest catch and does not show the episode name


----------



## kbmb

ejonesss said:


> ever since the update i am noticing that the episode titles are not showing.
> 
> for example deadliest catch is showing as deadliest catch and does not show the episode name


You sure it's not recording older episodes where the guide data doesn't have a name? I just had a Tivo record like 6 Deadliest episodes the other day....all old without names, but the last new episode was fine.

-Kevin


----------



## mattack

DeltaOne said:


> Last night was one of the rare nights when we had more than six programs set to record at 9 pm. When checking the To Do list I found that when selecting the to-be-skippped program the TiVo highlighted the six recordings that were causing the conflict. I think that's really neat!


Though to be really nitpicky, it really would be good if it somehow non-obtrusively scrolled all of the conflicts into view.. sometimes the conflicts are off the end.

Just BAM jumping down might be confusing (sort of how page down in lists with not an exact number of pages of items in it can cause you to lose your place on a Tivo).. I hate hate smooth scrolling, but something like that in this case might be useful.


----------



## ejonesss

in the past even repeats was named.

it maybe possible that the conversion to haxe from adobe air has omitted the titles.

also some shows are self aborting the downloads via the tivo to go featurs.

maybe time for tivo to allow us to down the raw ac3 and m2t files and mux them offline


----------



## deepthinker

ustavio said:


> Well I suppose it makes perfect sense to do it that way. However, unfortunately, there enough times that it doesn't ramp up past 480p (on what is clearly identified as HD), or at best it may get to 720p. and never get to 1080p. Sometimes it stays at 288p or 384p and no higher. All this applies to shows that, at other times, will pop right in at 1080p. I have a 60/40 download speed and throughput averages 16-20.Since the Netflix/Fios deal, everything has mostly been hunky dory. The summer update didn't affect things one way or the other. Netflix UI updates sometimes muck things up but they usually release a fix fairly quick.
> 
> I have found that if I grow impatient with blurry sub SD or find that midway through a show it still hasn't bumped to 1080p, it will do so if I back out (sometimes more than once) and resume the show. HBO GO, GO, Showtime ,Epix will all buffer/optimize but it takes at most 10 seconds. I don't mind this but I can fully understand why research would indicate that a majority of viewers would be content with crappy quality as long as they don't have to wait a few seconds.
> 
> I suppose I'm one of the minority that would wait a few seconds to get quality I pay for. It seems to take more time and effort to reload a show than to wait.


You said 60/40 Internet and mentioned the Netflix/FiOS deal, so I'm going to assume you are a Verizon FiOS customer. I was for years until switching to Charter a month ago and Netflix was one of the reasons why along with saving a good chunk of change, getting a speed bump on Internet, and even more HD channels than VZ. Netflix was hit or miss for the last few months even after they made the deal with Verizon and was sometimes downright horrible and I had 50/25 FiOS. It was sometimes crappy via Apple TV and Xbox as well. Not just TiVo. However since switching to Charter, Netflix has been completely smooth, and as it should be. Verizon is being the nasty 800 lb. Gorilla with Netflix and screwing them over even with Netflix paying them. There have been tons of articles the last couple of months. Some showing data on how Netflix on Verizon actually even got worse after their deal. Not only that there's been a lot of finger pointing and back and forth between these two.


----------



## ncfoster

Since this update, I have experienced an issue 2 or 3 times that involves zoom modes and SD channels. Luckily, this rarely comes up, but there is definitely something new and wrong.

Often, when I start an SD program playback, even though it says that it is in Zoom mode, it is in Panel mode. I have to cycle through the modes to get it into real Zoom mode. However, on these 2-3 occasions that I've mentioned, the video will corrupt and seize up. No amount of channel changing or playing back other videos will change the video being displayed. The workaround that I have found is to go into the Netflix app and return to Live TV to reset the video.

As I understand it, what is corrupting is not the same as the HDUI that people talk about resetting. It is the actual video stream, whether it is full-screen or in the preview window in the corner.

I have also had an HDMI problem of sorts with the last few releases. Since this comes up infrequently as well, I don't know when it started.

On my Pioneer Signature Elite PRO-101FD, I use one HDMI input for my Roamio and Oppo Blu-ray player, and another for my PS3, with a Monoprice 4x2 HDMI switch in the middle. The purpose of this is to be able to switch between calibrated video for movies and TV, and low-latency for games.

I always used to get by with my Pioneer set to Auto for video. Now, I generally have to switch the video manually to get it right. For the Roamio, I set it for 2(YUV444), where I swear it used to be an RGB mode. Did something change with regard to that?


----------



## Bierboy

ncfoster said:


> Since this update, I have experienced an issue 2 or 3 times that involves zoom modes and SD channels. Luckily, this rarely comes up, but there is definitely something new and wrong.
> 
> Often, when I start an SD program playback, even though it says that it is in Zoom mode, it is in Panel mode. I have to cycle through the modes to get it into real Zoom mode. However, on these 2-3 occasions that I've mentioned, the video will corrupt and seize up. No amount of channel changing or playing back other videos will change the video being displayed. The workaround that I have found is to go into the Netflix app and return to Live TV to reset the video.
> 
> As I understand it, what is corrupting is not the same as the HDUI that people talk about resetting. It is the actual video stream, whether it is full-screen or in the preview window in the corner.
> 
> I have also had an HDMI problem of sorts with the last few releases. Since this comes up infrequently as well, I don't know when it started.
> 
> On my Pioneer Signature Elite PRO-101FD, I use one HDMI input for my Roamio and Oppo Blu-ray player, and another for my PS3, with a Monoprice 4x2 HDMI switch in the middle. The purpose of this is to be able to switch between calibrated video for movies and TV, and low-latency for games.
> 
> I always used to get by with my Pioneer set to Auto for video. Now, I generally have to switch the video manually to get it right. For the Roamio, I set it for 2(YUV444), where I swear it used to be an RGB mode. Did something change with regard to that?


Send an e-mail to TiVoMargret ([email protected]) or post in her Twitter account...


----------



## moonscape

ncfoster said:


> Often, when I start an SD program playback, even though it says that it is in Zoom mode, it is in Panel mode.


I get this except I keep mine in Panel mode and it displays Full until I cycle through ....


----------



## chrispitude

ejonesss said:


> ever since the update i am noticing that the episode titles are not showing.
> 
> for example deadliest catch is showing as deadliest catch and does not show the episode name


I'm guessing this is a guide data problem and not a release problem, but this happened to me too. My TiVo wasn't able to record earlier showings due to conflicts, so a few of the ones I had to watch all had generic descriptions. Frustrating.


----------



## ejonesss

"My TiVo wasn't able to record earlier showings due to conflicts, so a few of the ones I had to watch all had generic descriptions. Frustrating"

better that than having corruption like what happened back when tivo attempted to 20.4.1 the first time.

fortunately now they revoked that feature so now all tuners will be used.

it may be possible to get another tivo say from ebay used or additional tuners (external).


----------



## mrizzo80

Is the on-demand info in Guide pop ups gone? I'm not seeing Netflix tags anymore. Also, anything network-related has seemed slow recently.


----------



## morac

Here's a weird bug which I haven't seen in a long time, since My Shows was first introduced, but appears to have returned. 

I was recording a shark week program off of DSC-HD and the guide and info showed the correct name and everything. After it finished recording I went to find it in my shows by it's name but could not. Instead I found "Naked and Afraid" instead. For some bizarre reason the recording had the wrong meta-data associated with it. Even now the guide still shows the correct data.


----------



## aaronwt

morac said:


> Here's a weird bug which I haven't seen in a long time, since My Shows was first introduced, but appears to have returned.
> 
> I was recording a shark week program off of DSC-HD and the guide and info showed the correct name and everything. After it finished recording I went to find it in my shows by it's name but could not. Instead I found "Naked and Afraid" instead. For some bizarre reason the recording had the wrong meta-data associated with it. Even now the guide still shows the correct data.


I know I had an issue this weekend where a bunch of my GFs Lifetime recordings had the wrong info. Lifetime changed their schedule but for some reason the TiVo didn't reflect this. Even though the guide info had changed. So I had several two hour recordings that showed the info for a specific movie. But the movie recorded was completely different. Usually when this happens the program is not recorded. So it was a little odd.


----------



## mattack

This sounds very similar to what I describe as "Tivo's left brain and right brain not cooperating".

I have very often seen somewhat similar things.. e.g. the To Do list (or even currently recording) shows showing one name, but if you look in the current listings, that show is NOT listed.

I suspect this is the guide data having been downloaded, but not been fully "digested" by the Tivo by some process that only runs overnight.

I *really* wish they'd fix this somehow.. seems to me it wouldn't even need a HUGE rewriting to make a "Band Aid" type fix -- make View Upcoming and To Do list items check the "downloaded but not processed" info too, while the human is looking at them.

If the digestion thing has to still be done overnight, this at least would fix a lot of cases end users see.. Checking the To Do list right before a recording starts would be another fix.. (Might not be long enough time to record an alternate thing, but at least would fix these 'wrong' recordings.)


----------



## morac

mattack said:


> I *really* wish they'd fix this somehow.. seems to me it wouldn't even need a HUGE rewriting to make a "Band Aid" type fix -- make View Upcoming and To Do list items check the "downloaded but not processed" info too, while the human is looking at them.


For what it's worth this mismatch used to happen all the time when My Shows was HD and the guide was still SD, but I haven't seen since the guide went HD. The problem happened when TiVo's online guide data mismatched the locally stored data.

I think TiVo put in a partial fix for this. I've had cases where the episode title of a program in My Shows is incorrect in the recorded show (usually generic). After I play the program though the episode title corrects itself. This is only if the program name is correct though.

I've never seen the case where the program name changed after playing the recording, so it looks like the fix is to cover the case where a program gets recorded when there is only generic program data and the data is later updated with specifics.


----------



## bern43

goldenmonkey said:


> Is the new update horribly slow for anyone? Not all of the time, but at random times, usually when pulling up a show to watch from 'My Shows', the screen just before I choose to play the video takes 5-10 seconds to load with a spinning blue circle. Other times while searching or selecting to record from the guide, same blue circle.
> 
> The update seems like it has introduced a lot of lag points when it should be doing the opposite. Anything to fix it short of a clear and delete all


I'm noticing the exact same thing since the update.


----------



## nooneuknow

I'm seeing it too. But, there's an upside. The local guide data has been wrong, but what recorded was right. So, as suggested, TiVo must be scheduling from their copy of the guide data, and not the one we are seeing (or is somehow using one, the other, both, voodoo, whatever).


----------



## ejonesss

@bern43 me too

as of the wrong data i am getting the same thing too.

my problem is some mythbusters episodes did not include the episode info it just said mythbusters as if it was a manual recording and other mythbusters was actually episodes of airplane repo and i think there was an episode of american muscle or that whatchamacallit show with the drag racing of high power cars at night.


note to tivo developers why dont you test your updates before giving them to us.


----------



## tomhorsley

On a possibly related note, I've been writing scripts to download the XML format data you can get about recordings, and it is very peculiar stuff. The "detailed" XML page you can get usually has the details for 3 or 4 different shows, and you have to sort through it to match up with the right one. It took me about a dozen tweaks of my algorithms before I could reliably find the matching detailed info.

If it is as confusing inside the TiVo as it is outside it, I'm not surprised it gets messed up .


----------



## rainwater

tomhorsley said:


> If it is as confusing inside the TiVo as it is outside it, I'm not surprised it gets messed up .


Messed up guide data is rarely an issue caused by TiVo and is almost always an issue with Tribune who provides the data.


----------



## nooneuknow

rainwater said:


> Messed up guide data is rarely an issue caused by TiVo and is almost always an issue with Tribune who provides the data.


No offense intended. But, isn't this in the top-ten things we tend to blindly pass-along, and accept, even in the absence of proof?

I'll spare the analogies... It just seems like perhaps TiVo might be trying something new, to fix what has ailed the guide data for so many generations of TiVo. If they are, they aren't going to announce that we're testing it for them. If you consider that TiVo has MSO partners now, and their guide data doesn't have the issues "TiVo's" does, it would make sense that some peeking into the "walled-garden" might be going on.

The ways of verifying the source of the bad guide data generally involved cross-checking against the source, which has been Tribune. Perhaps we are still getting Tribune data, but TiVo's realtime services are suckling on something more real-time, still not perfected.

Perhaps we'll see the same data that is being used, when the next update rolls. One can only hope (that they don't screw it up too bad).


----------



## rainwater

nooneuknow said:


> The ways of verifying the source of the bad guide data generally involved cross-checking against the source, which has been Tribune. Perhaps we are still getting Tribune data, but TiVo's realtime services are suckling on something more real-time, still not perfected.


TiVo doesn't use real-time services for guide data. And absent any information to the contrary, I will still believe it is a Tribune guide data issue. Btw, it is easy to verify, yet no one here has done it.


----------



## wmcbrine

tomhorsley said:


> The "detailed" XML page you can get usually has the details for 3 or 4 different shows, and you have to sort through it to match up with the right one.


That's the "vActualShowing" section. It can include data from the preceding and/or subsequent programs, due to padding -- the idea being that it reflects everything that's actually in the recording, not just the scheduled program. But if you look at the "showing" section, it should have data only for the intended program, IIRC.


----------



## nooneuknow

rainwater said:


> TiVo doesn't use real-time services for guide data. And absent any information to the contrary, I will still believe it is a Tribune guide data issue. Btw, it is easy to verify, yet no one here has done it.


I'm not even going to take the time to say more than I'm not taking the time to try to clarify what you clearly misunderstood, and will likely continue to misunderstand. Besides, the TCF member named parade is waiting for you...


----------



## tomhorsley

wmcbrine said:


> That's the "vActualShowing" section. It can include data from the preceding and/or subsequent programs, due to padding -- the idea being that it reflects everything that's actually in the recording, not just the scheduled program. But if you look at the "showing" section, it should have data only for the intended program, IIRC.


So I thought till I found an example once where it wasn't the case . I'm now looking at everything in the XML and matching the Title and EpisodeTitle and using other criteria after that if it is still ambiguouis.


----------



## Jed1

I have been running the summer update for over a month now on both my Premiere 4 with out issue until Wednesday night and then again last night.
On Wednesday night I decided to watch some recordings so I pressed the TiVo button and then pressed it again to get to my shows but I ended up with a black screen with just the channel playing in the video window. The TiVo would not respond to any remote button presses. I even let it set a few minutes as I thought it needed to catch up. I then decided to hit the live TV button but this caused the box to reboot. When the box finished rebooting it worked fine the rest of the night.

Last night at almost the same time I started to watch a recording that I was streaming from my upstairs TiVo and at about 6 minutes in the picture froze on the screen. The box responded to all my button presses but the frozen picture would not leave the screen I held the skip forward button down so it skipped to the end but the frozen picture remained. 
I decided to check the status of the box upstairs and it was working fine. When I came back down stairs I was back in the TiVo Central menu but I had no video in the window so I hit the zoom button to get back to live TV. I ended up with no video or sound. I noticed that it was still recording in the buffer so I decided to channel up to the next channel then back again but I then noticed that the resolution changed from 1080i to 480i and I still had no video.
I decided to check the diagnostics menu for the tuners and the one that I changed the channel on had no channel data. The rest were showing the proper data. I decided to look in the conditional access menu for the CableCard and I noticed that the tuner for that channel was missing. I then checked to see of I was getting OOB messages and was. I then exited the menu and then did the same for the other three tuners and when I checked their status in the diagnostics menu all the data was empty and I had no tuners listed in the conditional access menu. The card was still receiving OOB messages.
I then decided to reboot the TiVo and when the reboot ended the box was working normally again. I went back to the show that I was watching and it played through with no issues. The TiVo worked fine the rest of the evening.
I concluded that the TiVo would not output any video or sound and it seams the tuners would not function either. I have all resolutions selected and I did not think of changing to a fixed resolution before I rebooted. I hopefully do not have a repeat of this tonight as I figure I am getting some type of issue with this box. This TiVo is only 14 months old.


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## slowbiscuit

You do know this is the Roamio forum right? You want to post this over in the 20.4.2 thread for Premieres.


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## Jed1

slowbiscuit said:


> You do know this is the Roamio forum right? You want to post this over in the 20.4.2 thread for Premieres.


Yes I know that but this is the official summer update thread started by Margret. She did not start one in the Premiere forum as both the series 4 and series 5 platforms now share the same software.
Read her first post in this thread as she mentions Roamio, Premiere, and Mini for the release notes.

Somebody started a summer update thread in the Premiere forum as they also did in this Roamio forum but she probably will never read those threads as she did not start them. She doesn't visit this forum very often so it is possible she isn't even following this thread either.


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## MPSAN

I have had the tuners frozen as well. All 4 have no audio and black screens! I, too, have the Premiers. This also happened Thursday...or late Wednesday.


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## The Merg

Just curious about the new HD style for TiVo... Are people still seeing a bunch of screens that are in the old SD style? I see them when viewing settings and when going to view Amazon Video. Is it just that those screens haven't been updated yet?


- Merg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wmcbrine

The Merg said:


> Is it just that those screens haven't been updated yet?


Yes.


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## JWhites

MPSAN said:


> I have had the tuners frozen as well. All 4 have no audio and black screens! I, too, have the Premiers. This also happened Thursday...or late Wednesday.


I feel like that's a CableCARD issue because I've experienced that a lot before the swapping of them out.


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## Emacee

Yes, there a problems with the accuracy of Tribune program listings. But there are also problems with Tivo in this area. For one thing, Tivo seems to take its time updating program info or putting in corrections and changes. Zap2It (Tribune Media's Website) will have the new or corrected info and Tivo will not (even after a new update).

There are several threads active from people who have had one or more tuners go black and silent (corrected by a re-boot). Some report that cold re-boot with re-seating the Cable Card did not stop this problem from occurring. However, the Cable Card is involved in this, the card was working fine in these people's units until the summer software update. 

I love my Tivo, too. And sometimes they have released updates with bugs in them. They aren't perfect. And except for coming on here at the start of this thread to read some compliments, they show no signs of monitoring this.


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## slowbiscuit

I had all tuners quit working on my Elite more than once before I sold it and upgraded to a Roamio, a reboot always fixed it. It was pretty rare but very annoying since you missed recordings until you saw it (had it happen once on vacation). Have not seen this on the Roamio so far but it's only a few months old.

The theory from long ago is that the 4-tuner Premieres have a hardware/firmware issue with the tuners, but no one has confirmed that.


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## nooneuknow

slowbiscuit said:


> I had all tuners quit working on my Elite more than once before I sold it and upgraded to a Roamio, a reboot always fixed it. It was pretty rare but very annoying since you missed recordings until you saw it (had it happen once on vacation). Have not seen this on the Roamio so far but it's only a few months old.
> 
> The theory from long ago is that the 4-tuner Premieres have a hardware/firmware issue with the tuners, but no one has confirmed that.


People within TiVo (not the outsourced parts) disclosed there were such issues. How they were disclosed, and how I know, I can't say. You'll never get TiVo to say anything more (on tuner issues) than something like "A small percentage of users, in a small percentage of markets have the issue...". The part they'll never say publicly is "...due to this, no further action will be taken to correct the issue, as it might cause issues for those who aren't currently having them. The information has been passed to the applicable teams, for possible revisions to future products, should they be deemed likely to inherit the issue." That's as much as I feel safe sharing, no more.

Read into that all you like, or outright dismiss it, if you must. I really can't even defend myself, should you call me a liar, or say I fabricated this.

I feel people who pay the same price for their TiVo and service as everybody else, deserve to know that TiVo will usually deny there even is an issue (when it's more than a software bug/glitch). There are flaws in their designs, which the outsourced support personnel are prohibited from acknowledging exist, even past EOL designation. At that point, it's "Sorry your TiVo isn't working. Would you be interested in buying our new product, to get the experience you want?"


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## L David Matheny

nooneuknow said:


> There are flaws in their designs, which the outsourced support personnel are prohibited from acknowledging exist, even past EOL designation. At that point, it's "Sorry your TiVo isn't working. Would you be interested in buying our new product, to get the experience you want?"


I suppose there are some flaws in almost every design. Things like tuners have limitations, and TiVo tends to be too frugal regarding parts like processors and memory, but I don't recall any conclusive proof of a critical design flaw that crippled a TiVo. OTOH, my standard reply to the type of upgrade ploy you mention is something like, "If you can't get my current model working correctly, why should I expect better results from a newer model?"


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## tomhorsley

L David Matheny said:


> I don't recall any conclusive proof of a critical design flaw that crippled a TiVo.


You mean other than using flash on the Premiere? .


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## L David Matheny

tomhorsley said:


> You mean other than using flash on the Premiere? .


Well, OK. But seriously, even the Flash-based Premiere did work, however sluggishly, and now that TiVo has pushed out Haxe-based code for the Premiere, the problem is mostly fixed.


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## slowbiscuit

If the known tuner issue on 4-tuner Premieres is true, the really dumb part is that Tivo should have logic to detect they have all indeed failed to tune (on scheduled recordings or whatever), then do an auto-reboot. I mean lord knows they reboot now for all kinds of crap anyway, my Roamio did it just last week when I tried to run YouTube.


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## JWhites

I agree, there should be a way to self correct if something like that happens.


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## morac

Just had my second reboot on my Roamio Pro since this version installed. That might not seem like much, but it's 2 more than I had with previous software releases..

Pressed zoom to go to live TV, and hit instant replay a few times. The instant replays did not take, instead the video froze. I hit the TiVo button, but nothing happened. About 5 seconds later the TiVo went to TiVo central and the video window was playing so I thought all was good until the box rebooted a second later.


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## nooneuknow

morac said:


> Just had my second reboot on my Roamio Pro since this version installed. That might not seem like much, but it's 2 more than I had with previous software releases..
> 
> Pressed zoom to go to live TV, and hit instant replay a few times. The instant replays did not take, instead the video froze. I hit the TiVo button, but nothing happened. About 5 seconds later the TiVo went to TiVo central and the video window was playing so I thought all was good until the box rebooted a second later.


When this happens, you should consider using the 911-clear sequence from Live TV, right as soon as the TiVo has booted, then TiVoBackDoor into the logs, and look at the events prior to the entry the 911-clear date/time-stamps in the logs.

After the next TiVo Service connection, preferably done manually, right after using the sequences, TiVo can analyze this for you, if you call soon enough. This can be made easier by requesting TiVo put your TSN on "log monitoring", which will help to automate the process. The sequences can be used as many time as you want, to mark the logs with date/time-stamps.

No matter what, I always do a 777-clear & 911-clear immediately after any uninitiated reboot, every time. TiVo can determine what caused the reboot, especially if you use the log marking sequences. They are always active. The only downsides to them is they only work while in Live TV viewing mode, and sometimes you need to be not using the back-buffer, when trying catch real-time AV issues.

911-clear is only a date/time-stamp marker. 777-clear adds the marker and more details to what is logged.

For the unfamiliar, the way to use these is in Live TV mode, by pressing the numbers, and quickly hitting clear, before the channel can try to change. If the channel changes, press enter to go back to previous channel, then re-attempt.


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## Jed1

It looks like I had a TiVo menu reset last night on my Premiere 4. I was doing a search for Riddick and when I tried to get additional information on the movie I was immediately kicked back to TiVo Central and the discovery bar disappeared. When I went back into search all the search criteria I entered was gone. I did not try anything else after that as I shut off the TV and went to bed. I never had this happen before the summer update.


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## morac

nooneuknow said:


> When this happens, you should consider using the 911-clear sequence from Live TV, right as soon as the TiVo has booted, then TiVoBackDoor into the logs, and look at the events prior to the entry the 911-clear date/time-stamps in the logs. After the next TiVo Service connection, preferably done manually, right after using the sequences, TiVo can analyze this for you, if you call soon enough.


 I doubt TiVo phone support knows anything about the TiVo logs, assuming they are even turned on, which I don't believe they are by default (at least not "debugging" logs). Logs would only be useful to an engineer/programmer. Also I would a assume, like every other OS, a reboot would stand out like a sore thumb in any logs as all the system services would initialize.

In any case, the reboots happen so infrequently (once a month) that calling TiVo about them wouldn't likely bear any fruit. I'm pretty sure they are related to using YouTube though as I had used YouTube the day before for the first time in a long time. I think the last reboot also happened the day after using YouTube, but I'm not positive about that.

One issue that occurs fairly regularly is a random temporary loss of sound and picture blocking up when watching "live" TV. The problem goes away on an instant replay and I have yet to see it when watching a previous recording. I don't watch live that often, but I've seen that a number of times since the update.


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## Keen

morac said:


> One issue that occurs fairly regularly is a random temporary loss of sound and picture blocking up when watching "live" TV. The problem goes away on an instant replay and I have yet to see it when watching a previous recording. I don't watch live that often, but I've seen that a number of times since the update.


I've seen this often too. I rarely watch Live TV, but was watching some of the Simpsons marathon, and kept seeing this. I hope they fix this bug, I love me un-corrupted video.


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## nooneuknow

morac said:


> I doubt TiVo phone support knows anything about the TiVo logs, assuming they are even turned on, which I don't believe they are by default (at least not "debugging" logs). Logs would only be useful to an engineer/programmer. Also I would a assume, like every other OS, a reboot would stand out like a sore thumb in any logs as all the system services would initialize.
> 
> In any case, the reboots happen so infrequently (once a month) that calling TiVo about them wouldn't likely bear any fruit. I'm pretty sure they are related to using YouTube though as I had used YouTube the day before for the first time in a long time. I think the last reboot also happened the day after using YouTube, but I'm not positive about that.
> 
> One issue that occurs fairly regularly is a random temporary loss of sound and picture blocking up when watching "live" TV. The problem goes away on an instant replay and I have yet to see it when watching a previous recording. I don't watch live that often, but I've seen that a number of times since the update.


Rather than assuming things, and dismissing what you'd be advised to do if you contacted TiVoMargret, or talked to a higher-tier CSR about your problems, you might actually verify what the deal is. I have.

Those remote sequences do exactly what I said they do. I've verified they are always active, with 911-clear bookmarking the TiVo logs, and the 777-clear adds more debugging data. You sound like you think the logs aren't even active for release software versions. That's not the case. You can verify it yourself by viewing the logs with TiVoBackDoor, Clear-Clear-Enter-Enter-0 from the System Information screen. If you bother to look there, you'll see the logs are archived at intervals, then sent to TiVo each time the scheduled (or manual) TiVo Service connection is made.

I get the impression you'd rather stick an icepick in your eye, than make the effort, and make the calls. That's fine, if you just want to complain, and not help be part of the solution. If you publicly poo-poo the sequences as likely not doing anything, and likely of no use, then you become part of the problem, by discouraging others.

One e-mail to TiVoMargret [email protected] , and you can have any TSNs you want placed on automatic log monitoring, so the sequence entries won't go unnoticed.

Even the lowest-level CSRs can get access to enough log information to spot if you have changed your hard drive. They can tell you what happened that appears to have caused a reboot. They can tell you if your TiVo rebooted due to a loss of power. They can tell you there are problems logged with SDV, or that the TA is throwing errors. They can even get some idea of things pointing to a hard drive issue.

For those who want to just mark their logs, and view events around the marks, the sequences are active.

For those who want TiVo to "do something", you need to be on log monitoring and will need to interact with TiVo via at least one support channel (I hate this part, too, FWIW).

The only thing I agree with 100%, is that it shouldn't take any sequence to spot a reboot. But, that's the way TiVo wants it done. If you don't do as they ask, you can't (realistically) expect them to help.

TiVo's support center does forward the results of the sequences and log monitoring to TiVo the real company, if they have enough people showing the same issues in their logs. This requires participation and interaction, rather than (paraphrasing) "Meh, I don't feel like making the effort, and don't want to call TiVo, I'll just post my issues on TCF and hope they get fixed, with no effort on my part". As much as I feel that way about it, myself, it's the only way the users can help.

People who wish to do this should take notes on what date and time they used the sequences, and the reason why. Without your own notes, you can't expect TiVo to know why you added debugging, or marked the logs.


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## NorthAlabama

nooneuknow said:


> One e-mail to TiVoMargret [email protected] , and you can have any TSNs you want placed on automatic log monitoring, so the sequence entries won't go unnoticed.


three weeks into the update, after several spontaneous reboots of my previously rock solid tivo, and multiple resets of the hdui, one email to margret and it all stopped - back to solid performance. i don't know if there's any connection, but it might be worth a try to follow the advice above.


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## nooneuknow

NorthAlabama said:


> three weeks into the update, after several spontaneous reboots of my previously rock solid tivo, and multiple resets of the hdui, one email to margret and it all stopped - back to solid performance. i don't know if there's any connection, but it might be worth a try to follow the advice above.


She probably (educated speculation) checked to make sure there were no issues on their server-side and the account, along with looking at the logs available, or having somebody else look at them.

I've seen many similar posts like "one email to TiVoMargret, and my problems stopped". She goes above and beyond. She put my TSNs on log monitoring, I used the sequences, and my reboots went away as well, within 48 hours.

I've also seen times where it was clear TiVoMargret was too busy to deal with her extracurricular role providing support, and reports posted of getting no help from her. Many forget she volunteers her help, and it's not part of her job description. She deserves to be cut some slack, IMO, when this happens.

I've also seen posts where TiVo's outsourced CSRs were able to remotely fix things, like recordings that could not be deleted, even using KMTTG. It seems that TiVo has remote access, like Windows remote assistance provides for computers. These people would likely would still have their problems, if they hadn't made the effort to contact TiVo.

Thank you for taking the time to post your POV, and real-life experience.


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## ejonesss

Margret if you are the one who is in charge of fixing the software please fix the bug that is causing the wrong content to record.

i record airplane repo and get bering sea gold or other equiv to deadliest catch.

maybe time to go back to adobe air for the interface or use a combination of adobe air and haxe.

haxe to read the buttons from the remote and for the graphics and adobe air for the behind the scenes and recording

also i dont think the box is connecting correctly to the network since i get an exclamation point "!" warning when i hit the tivo button.

could it be that both boxes are connecting at the same time and there is no way for the server to tell the difference between each box so the server thinks there is duplicate requests?


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## ejonesss

tivo site not responding try 2

Margret if you are the one who is in charge of fixing the software please fix the bug that is causing the wrong content to record.

i record airplane repo and get bering sea gold or other equiv to deadliest catch.

maybe time to go back to adobe air for the interface or use a combination of adobe air and haxe.

haxe to read the buttons from the remote and for the graphics and adobe air for the behind the scenes and recording

also i dont think the box is connecting correctly to the network since i get an exclamation point "!" warning when i hit the tivo button.

could it be that both boxes are connecting at the same time and there is no way for the server to tell the difference between each box so the server thinks there is duplicate requests?


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## nooneuknow

@ejonesss: Who said to "post blindly at TiVoMargret here"? This site is not owned by, operated by, nor officially affiliated with TiVo, the company.

It is always "email TiVoMargret", and her email info is already posted a few posts prior to this. Given your impatience and repeated posting expecting instant gratification, I should probably send her an apology in advance.

As also already stated, direct customer interaction and support duties are not part of her job title. She does it when she has time, sometimes on her own time, and doesn't get paid any more if she does. Please don't ruin a good thing for the rest of us. Other true TiVo employees used to interact here, and the impatient, thankless, and often mean-spirited, chased them out.

Her twitter feed is "TiVoDesign". If you post there, and she wants you to email her, she'll request that you do. If she doesn't say "please email me your TSN", she's likely too busy with her regular duties (might not even be available), and you should use the regular support channels. If you feel you are being ignored, move to the next support channel, and possibly reconsider your approach and tone you use. If you say (to regular support) "I want to open a support ticket for ......" , you should be assigned one. Support is NOT 24/7/365. You do realize this was a weekend, and today is a holiday, right?


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## rgr

ejonesss said:


> Margret if you are the one who is in charge of fixing the software please fix the bug that is causing the wrong content to record.
> 
> i record airplane repo and get bering sea gold or other equiv to deadliest catch.
> 
> maybe time to go back to adobe air for the interface or use a combination of adobe air and haxe.
> 
> haxe to read the buttons from the remote and for the graphics and adobe air for the behind the scenes and recording
> 
> also i dont think the box is connecting correctly to the network since i get an exclamation point "!" warning when i hit the tivo button.
> 
> could it be that both boxes are connecting at the same time and there is no way for the server to tell the difference between each box so the server thinks there is duplicate requests?


May be you've looked into this, but it looks like Airplane Repo and Bering Sea Gold are only an hour off on the schedule. It might very well be that your local cable company changed their schedule and the schedule provider (Tribune, I think) has not yet caught up with the change.

Is everything on Discovery similarly an hour off schedule?
If so, TiVo has a web form at http://www.tivo.com/lineup.html

Just a thought.


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## Odds Bodkins

morac said:


> One issue that occurs fairly regularly is a random temporary loss of sound and picture blocking up when watching "live" TV. The problem goes away on an instant replay and I have yet to see it when watching a previous recording. I don't watch live that often, but I've seen that a number of times since the update.


Seeing/hearing this on my end too.


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