# Problems with TiVo mini through Gigabit switch



## alexksj

Hi,

I just got a Tivo mini to connect to my XL4, but I ran into various issues with my networking setup. Originally I had the XL4 directly wired to a Netgear WNDR3700v2 router, which was wired to a Trendnet TEG-s50g Gigabit switch, which was wired to the Tivo mini. To emphasize, there is no Wifi in the mix. The mini worked immediately after first setup, but every day since then it stopped finding the XL4. The error is "The XL4 DVR cannot be found" with error codes C421 and C422. Each time the mini started working again after a wild combination of reboots and reconnects to Tivo service.
Today I got it to work again by removing the switch and directly connecting the mini to the router. This is not a permanent solution, I have other wired boxes next to the mini that need the connection.

Are there any known issues with the mini and wired switches? Everything is in the same subnet. Any recommended settings on router & switches?

Thanks,
Alex


----------



## moyekj

If you continue to have trouble you can always just enable MoCA on the XL4 and use coax instead of ethernet on the Mini to connect to it. If nothing else it will give you another data point to compare against.


----------



## HDRyder9

I couldn't get my Mini to connect to a Cisco gigabit switch. I used MOCA instead but it's troubling because I may have an instance in the future where MOCA isn't available.


----------



## teklock

alexksj said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just got a Tivo mini to connect to my XL4, but I ran into various issues with my networking setup. Originally I had the XL4 directly wired to a Netgear WNDR3700v2 router, which was wired to a Trendnet TEG-s50g Gigabit switch, which was wired to the Tivo mini. To emphasize, there is no Wifi in the mix. The mini worked immediately after first setup, but every day since then it stopped finding the XL4. The error is "The XL4 DVR cannot be found" with error codes C421 and C422. Each time the mini started working again after a wild combination of reboots and reconnects to Tivo service.
> Today I got it to work again by removing the switch and directly connecting the mini to the router. This is not a permanent solution, I have other wired boxes next to the mini that need the connection.
> 
> Are there any known issues with the mini and wired switches? Everything is in the same subnet. Any recommended settings on router & switches?
> 
> Thanks,
> Alex


hmmm kinda funny that you bring this up, because I also had issues with the mini connected to a netgear gig switch. Same issues you had, so i ended up using Moca because that's how my Elite is connected to my network so I thought maybe that was the problem. Since then, it's worked perfectly.


----------



## aaronwt

My Minis were fine connected to my Dlink gigabit switches.


----------



## Loach

Hmmm. Looks like I'll be another test case. I'll be installing my 2nd mini soon and had planned to do so via a D-Link gigabit switch that is bridged off my P4. MoCA is also an option, but the switch is already there for other uses and there is a Cat 5e run from that switch to the TV where I'll be installing the new Mini, so I figured I may as well use it. 

Is it just me or is it starting to sound like MoCA is the more reliable connection for Minis?


----------



## moyekj

My Mini is connected directly to one of my gigabit DLINK router ports and I haven't had any problems.


----------



## HarperVision

Loach said:


> Is it just me or is it starting to sound like MoCA is the more reliable connection for Minis?


Yeah it sounds a lot like how DirecTV says their DeCA system is the only way to get whole home and their Genie clients to work, even though many more technically inclined people know that their so called "unsupported" hookup with ethernet works just fine.


----------



## Loach

HarperVision said:


> Yeah it sounds a lot like how DirecTV says their DeCA system is the only way to get whole home and their Genie clients to work, even though many more technically inclined people know that their so called "unsupported" hookup with ethernet works just fine.


Nobody is saying ethernet doesn't or shouldn't work. I'm just noting a few data points starting to show up here where people are having trouble with it for whatever reason. Understood that there are other members posting here that aren't having any problems.

I also recall a few articles on the Mini that stated that MoCA was the "preferred" or "recommended" connection per Tivo. But I don't actually see anything to that effect on the support pages of Tivo's website. Everything there seems to say use wired ethernet or MoCA with no stated preference.

I'll be trying it with the ethernet switch first, but will not hesitate to switch to MoCA if I have problems.


----------



## aaronwt

After running my two Elites and two Minis on Ethernet for a few days, I'm running them on MoCa for a few days. Then I will try everything on wireless bridges.


----------



## alexksj

Is there any more information what kind of protocols Tivo is using over Ethernet? It seems arbitrary that wired Ethernet is required, because the latest Wifi protocols easily outrun 100-baseT. TiVo must do some creative things on the physical layer of Ethernet to require these limitations, and this also translates into implicit limitations for wired Ethernet hardware. Hubs? Switches? Routers? Tunnelling? Ethernet over power line? Tivo needs to be more clear on what infrastructure is supported. My switch at least seems to be on shaky ground.


----------



## HarperVision

Loach said:


> Nobody is saying ethernet doesn't or shouldn't work. I'm just noting a few data points starting to show up here where people are having trouble with it for whatever reason. Understood that there are other members posting here that aren't having any problems.
> 
> I also recall a few articles on the Mini that stated that MoCA was the "preferred" or "recommended" connection per Tivo. But I don't actually see anything to that effect on the support pages of Tivo's website. Everything there seems to say use wired ethernet or MoCA with no stated preference.
> 
> I'll be trying it with the ethernet switch first, but will not hesitate to switch to MoCA if I have problems.


I agree. That's not why I made that comment. It was more an implication of DirecTV, not TiVo. What I was trying to say was when DTV released their whole home they just decided to limit it to DECA instead of "supporting" ethernet to avoid any customer issues, confusion, etc. Kind of like how TiVo is limiting the mini to a four tuner to avoid unnecessary added tech support woes.

i personally applaud tivo for allowing both :up:


----------



## P42

TRENDnet website said:


> GREENnet technology reduces power consumption when:
> Ethernet port is not in use
> Connected device is turned off
> Connected device is in power-saving mode
> Based on Ethernet cable length


I wonder if the Trendnet switch is shutting down the port, because the Mini has been idle / asleep, and is not recognizing that the Mini has woken back up. You can easily verify this by connecting directly to the Netgear. (edit: ops I see you already did that, and it works). I'd go with replacing the switch.


----------



## alexksj

P42 said:


> I wonder if the Trendnet switch is shutting down the port, because the Mini has been idle / asleep, and is not recognizing that the Mini has woken back up. You can easily verify this by connecting directly to the Netgear. (edit: ops I see you already did that, and it works). I'd go with replacing the switch.


I have since found out that the same errors happen with the direct connection to the Netgear router. I switched to Moca as a last resort, hopefully this will be it. The help text for Moca on the XL4 is misleading, it makes it sound that you can't have Moca and Ethernet at the same time. It seems to work fine, though.


----------



## P42

Glad you found a solution that works for you. The techie is me is curious as to the root cause, but hey, you got it working, and that is what is important.


----------



## jfh3

FWIW - I have two Trendnet green 16 port switched and have had no issues with my Minis.


----------



## tivoboy

If one has an XL4, and a mini, will the XL4 provide enough (assuming connected to ethernet and the coax) for the mini to be able to use MoCa stand alone, or does the mini also need a MoCa adaptor to work AND have to be connected via Ethernet?


----------



## jmpage2

tivoboy said:


> If one has an XL4, and a mini, will the XL4 provide enough (assuming connected to ethernet and the coax) for the mini to be able to use MoCa stand alone, or does the mini also need a MoCa adaptor to work AND have to be connected via Ethernet?


I'm not sure what you mean by "providing enough" but yes, if your XL4 is Ethernet connected then you do NOT need any MoCA adapters for the Minis, they have MoCA capability built into them. In this scenario the XL4 becomes an Ethernet to MoCA bridge, so that the traffic to and from the Minis is confined to the MoCA connection unless an internet connection is needed, in which case it traverses MoCA, goes out Ethernet from the XL4 and gets to the internet.

The primary advantage of using MoCA is that it offloads the sizeable network bandwidth used by video streaming from the rest of your wired Ethernet network. If you have a couple of Minis streaming it could easily add up to 50mbps or more of constant bandwidth on the LAN.... which may or may not cause issues with your other devices.


----------



## moyekj

jmpage2 said:


> The primary advantage of using MoCA is that it offloads the sizeable network bandwidth used by video streaming from the rest of your wired Ethernet network. If you have a couple of Minis streaming it could easily add up to 50mbps or more of constant bandwidth on the LAN.... which may or may not cause issues with your other devices.


 I guess I don't understand this. Ultimately you are bridging MoCA with ethernet through your router so as far as the router is concerned it sees the same amount of IP traffic either way, so I don't see how using MoCA alleviates overall bandwidth.


----------



## HarperVision

moyekj said:


> I guess I don't understand this. Ultimately you are bridging MoCA with ethernet through your router so as far as the router is concerned it sees the same amount of IP traffic either way, so I don't see how using MoCA alleviates overall bandwidth.


Because when the video streams from the XL4 to the mini, it will ONLY go through the coax cable system between your XL4 and mini (or other Premiere if you have it that way too) using MoCA and not through the ethernet port to your router and home LAN.

DirecTV realized this and other possible extra issues, as well as customer confusion possibilities, and made the business decision to only support DeCA (their version of MoCA) and not ethernet, so the added burden on your ethernet network and benefits of MoCA are real.

P.S. - Just do not hook up ethernet and MoCA at the same time on your mini or you'll defeat the purpose I think.


----------



## moyekj

HarperVision said:


> Because when the video streams from the XL4 to the mini, it will ONLY go through the coax cable system between your XL4 and mini (or other Premiere if you have it that way too) using MoCA and not through the ethernet port to your router and home LAN.
> 
> DirecTV realized this and other possible extra issues, as well as customer confusion possibilities, and made the business decision to only support DeCA (their version of MoCA) and not ethernet, so the added burden on your ethernet network and benefits of MoCA are real.
> 
> P.S. - Just do not hook up ethernet and MoCA at the same time on your mini or you'll defeat the purpose I think.


 Still not getting it. As far as the router is concerned it's all the same. For a normal networking setup you are going to use the same subnet for all devices on your network so they can communicate with each other, and you are also going to have your router assign IP addresses via DHCP on that subnet, or you are manually specifying static IP addresses on that subnet.
Let's say in the minimal case you only have an XL4 and a Mini using MoCA and the XL4 connects to your router. You are still bridging MoCA to ethernet in order for the XL4 and Mini to be able to connect to the internet, so even in simplest case you are always bridging MoCA to wired ethernet.


----------



## HarperVision

moyekj said:


> Still not getting it. As far as the router is concerned it's all the same. For a normal networking setup you are going to use the same subnet for all devices on your network so they can communicate with each other, and you are also going to have your router assign IP addresses via DHCP on that subnet, or you are manually specifying static IP addresses on that subnet.
> Let's say in the minimal case you only have an XL4 and a Mini using MoCA and the XL4 connects to your router. You are still bridging MoCA to ethernet in order for the XL4 and Mini to be able to connect to the internet, so even in simplest case you are always bridging MoCA to wired ethernet.


Yes you're bridged but the way I understand it, when you're streaming your video from the XL4 to the Mini and you're using MoCA, it sends the signal directly through the coax from XL4 to mini, bypassing your router attached to the ethernet connection of your XL4. If you were using ethernet on your mini, the only way it could communicate with your XL4 would be through your ethernet LAN, which includes your router, thus possibly bogging it down with the extra bandwidth of the video stream.

I "think" when you bridge it and install a mini via MoCA that you're correct that it then assigns an IP, etc. from the router, but once it's setup and the 2 tivo devices are communicating with each other via MoCA, then as I said the stream goes direct through coax to the mini, not needing the router & ethernet at all unless it needs to go out to the internet. At that point it goes MoCA to XL4 which "bridges it" over to it's ethernet port and out to the router, modem, WAN, etc.

Experts, do I have that right, or am I confused on how all this works as well?


----------



## jmpage2

moyekj said:


> Still not getting it. As far as the router is concerned it's all the same. For a normal networking setup you are going to use the same subnet for all devices on your network so they can communicate with each other, and you are also going to have your router assign IP addresses via DHCP on that subnet, or you are manually specifying static IP addresses on that subnet.
> Let's say in the minimal case you only have an XL4 and a Mini using MoCA and the XL4 connects to your router. You are still bridging MoCA to ethernet in order for the XL4 and Mini to be able to connect to the internet, so even in simplest case you are always bridging MoCA to wired ethernet.


If the traffic is between the XL4 and the Mini over coax using MoCA then the router and ethernet switches should NEVER see the traffic. Unicast traffic will only travel between two devices on the same physical subnet, it should never be "broadcast" to the entire connected network. Not ever.


----------



## HarperVision

Cool, thanks for clearing that up, jmpage2!


----------



## aaronwt

It' no different if you have the Mini and Xl4 connected through a switch, and one port of that switch is connected to the router. The traffic between the Mini and the XL4 will stay in that switch and won't go through the router unless it is accessing the internet, or other devices on the network where the path to access them is through the router.


----------



## Time_Lord

jmpage2 said:


> ... Unicast traffic will only travel between two devices on the same physical subnet, it should never be "broadcast" to the entire connected network. Not ever.


Just minor nit picking...

Unicast traffic will only be seen on the sender's port and the port required to reach the receiver, this is not a subnet, a subnet is referring to an IP subnet defined by a network mask.

Broadcast traffic will be transmitted/sent on ALL ports of the switch
Multicast traffic IF your switch is multicast aware and configured will be transmitted only on the port(s) participating in the multicast traffic, otherwise it will be broadcast to all ports.

I also see the same gripes about WiFi and why TiVo doesn't support WiFi for streaming even though WiFi has enough available bandwidth to support streaming. I believe the simple reason is, in residence without careful planing there can be too many sources of interference and weak signals that can degrade the WiFi signal to a point were it cannot reliably support streaming and TiVo simply doesn't have the man power, ability, or desire to troublshoot somebody's wireless network.

-TL


----------



## jmpage2

TL, you are correct of course. I tend to use subnet and "segment" interchangeably these days, at least when talking about this uncomplicated stuff.


----------



## Loach

I've had my 2nd Mini running for about 10 days now off an Ethernet switch that's bridged off my P4. It's working fine, except that when I first go to use it, it's unresponsive to remote control commands for about the first 25-35 seconds. That may not sound like long, but it seems like an eternity when you're pushing remote buttons with nothing happening. My other Mini connected by MoCA is responsive immediately. 

I'm wondering if its taking awhile for the switch to realize that the Mini has "woken up". I think I'm going to try it with MoCA.


----------



## aaronwt

Loach said:


> I've had my 2nd Mini running for about 10 days now off an Ethernet switch that's bridged off my P4. It's working fine, except that when I first go to use it, it's unresponsive to remote control commands for about the first 25-35 seconds. That may not sound like long, but it seems like an eternity when you're pushing remote buttons with nothing happening. My other Mini connected by MoCA is responsive immediately.
> 
> I'm wondering if its taking awhile for the switch to realize that the Mini has "woken up". I think I'm going to try it with MoCA.


Try a different switch. When I had my two Minis on Dlink Gigabit switches, they were responsive right away, just like from MoCA and wireless bridges.


----------



## Loach

aaronwt said:


> Try a different switch. When I had my two Minis on Dlink Gigabit switches, they were responsive right away, just like from MoCA and wireless bridges.


I actually happen to be using a D-link Gigabit switch. I don't have any other switches. It's a newer switch that supposedly has some energy saving features, so I do wonder if there's a setting I could change on the switch to disable energy saver mode. I suspect that could be causing the delayed responsiveness.

In the end it's going to be pretty much academic to me if MoCA works better.


----------



## rfryar

I had a similar problem where the mini worked with my Netgear switch during set up and then stopped working. Turned out I had to replace the ethernet cable that shipped with the mini to a different cable. 

I have had issues on my Gigabit lan with bad cables in the past.. Strange that is worked at first and then failed. The only thing I can think of is the mini starts up as 10 Mb, and then switches to 100Mb after the first connection/update and the cable failed at those speeds with the cable shipped.

Rcik


----------



## jmpage2

Loach said:


> I actually happen to be using a D-link Gigabit switch. I don't have any other switches. It's a newer switch that supposedly has some energy saving features, so I do wonder if there's a setting I could change on the switch to disable energy saver mode. I suspect that could be causing the delayed responsiveness.
> 
> In the end it's going to be pretty much academic to me if MoCA works better.


It is highly unlikely the switch can be changed in that regard unless it is a fully managed switch. What is the switch model #?


----------



## Loach

jmpage2 said:


> It is highly unlikely the switch can be changed in that regard unless it is a fully managed switch. What is the switch model #?


I think it's a DGS-1005G


----------



## jmpage2

Loach said:


> I think it's a DGS-1005G


That's an unmanaged switch, meaning, you can't set anything on it.


----------



## Loach

jmpage2 said:


> That's an unmanaged switch, meaning, you can't set anything on it.


Figured as much. Thanks


----------



## aaronwt

Loach said:


> I think it's a DGS-1005G


My switches are the newer Dlink 5 and 8 port switches. That same model number has applied to several different designs.


----------



## Finalrinse

I've had two Ethernet cables fail in the last couple of days. I don't understand what fails in the cable? The cables were not touched, no kinks, still look like new, but they fail?


----------



## jmpage2

Finalrinse said:


> I've had two Ethernet cables fail in the last couple of days. I don't understand what fails in the cable? The cables were not touched, no kinks, still look like new, but they fail?


You'd have to be more specific. The most likely way that a cable "fails" is if the crimped on connector at the end (RJ45) gets pulled enough that there is a gap between the wire end and the metal tooth in the RJ45.

Other reasons for cable failure include doing things like bending, crimping or tightly rolling a cable.


----------



## aaronwt

Finalrinse said:


> I've had two Ethernet cables fail in the last couple of days. I don't understand what fails in the cable? The cables were not touched, no kinks, still look like new, but they fail?


I had a bunch of Cat6 cables fail from Monoprice. So I made sure not to buy any more and went back to buying Cat5e cables from them. Which is all I needed for gigabit anyway. I had purchased a dozen or so a while back and around nine of them failed on me over several weeks.

I move my connections around several times a month. So the Monoprice Cat6 cables are very rigid and the connection was getting messed up creating an open on some of the wires at the connector since they were so rigid. I've never had that issue with the thousands of cat6 cables we've used at work over the years. But those are also alot more expensive than the Monoprice ones.

I should have never stopped using the Monoprice Cat5e cables anyway. I'm using over eighty of them between my place and my GFs place and they have always worked great over the years.


----------



## Finalrinse

I also use monoprice cables, and have good luck with them. Thanks for the tip about there cat6 cables.


----------



## todd_j_derr

Ethernet cables spontaneously failing is not a very common problem. I'm starting to suspect there is something a bit flaky about the Ethernet port on the Mini.

While dealing with my Mini problems, I've noticed that just brushing against the Ethernet cable can make it lose link. My usual problem is I pull the power cord from the back and reconnect it (which I've probably done more than anyone on the planet aside from Tivo employees) and when it reboots it has no link, so I wiggle it around a bit or maybe unplug/plug and it works. At first I thought it was the cable, or that it was only one of my Minis, but it's definitely happened with 3 different cables (which I believe are of differing providence), and using 3 different switches, and I think it's now happened on all 4 of my Minis. That is unusual for ethernet connections in my experience - if you don't insert the cable fully that's one thing, but once it "clicks" into place it's usually a very solid connection and even pulling on the cord won't disrupt it.


----------



## aaronwt

todd_j_derr said:


> Ethernet cables spontaneously failing is not a very common problem. I'm starting to suspect there is something a bit flaky about the Ethernet port on the Mini.
> 
> While dealing with my Mini problems, I've noticed that just brushing against the Ethernet cable can make it lose link. My usual problem is I pull the power cord from the back and reconnect it (which I've probably done more than anyone on the planet aside from Tivo employees) and when it reboots it has no link, so I wiggle it around a bit or maybe unplug/plug and it works. At first I thought it was the cable, or that it was only one of my Minis, but it's definitely happened with 3 different cables (which I believe are of differing providence), and using 3 different switches, and I think it's now happened on all 4 of my Minis. That is unusual for ethernet connections in my experience - if you don't insert the cable fully that's one thing, but once it "clicks" into place it's usually a very solid connection and even pulling on the cord won't disrupt it.


That sounds like you need to take your Mini back and exchange it.


----------



## todd_j_derr

If it wasn't happening on all 4 of them, I'd tend to agree, but...


----------



## jfh3

FWIW, I changed all the Ethernet cables in my house to Monoprice cat6 cables about a year ago and haven't seen any problems.


----------



## Loach

Loach said:


> I've had my 2nd Mini running for about 10 days now off an Ethernet switch that's bridged off my P4. It's working fine, except that when I first go to use it, it's unresponsive to remote control commands for about the first 25-35 seconds. That may not sound like long, but it seems like an eternity when you're pushing remote buttons with nothing happening. My other Mini connected by MoCA is responsive immediately.
> 
> I'm wondering if its taking awhile for the switch to realize that the Mini has "woken up". I think I'm going to try it with MoCA.


I finally got around to changing my 2nd Mini to a MoCA connection and have had it running that way for about a week. Unfortunately, it behaves exactly the same way it was when I had it connected to the Ethernet switch - unresponsive to remote commands for about 30 seconds or so, then it works fine after that. So it apparently has nothing to do with the Ethernet switch I was using.

Not sure why my other Mini seems to "wake up" quicker.

EDIT: I believe I've narrowed the problem to the Universal Remote Control. The Mini is pretty much instantly responsive to the Tivo peanut remote, but doesn't seem to like the MX-600 until:

1. 30 seconds or so have passed
or 
2. I've "awakened" the Mini with a button press from the peanut

It's sort of bizarre to me that the URC works just fine after that. Perhaps the peanut's IR signal is much stronger than the URC's and the Mini needs a strong kick in the pants to wake up? Maybe, but one of the commands programmed into the URC's "on" macro is the Tivo button, and the Mini seems to respond just fine to that the Mini always goes right to the main menu even when it's been dormant for hours or days. It's the 2nd command from URC that it doesn't seem to want to respond to. I'm pretty much baffled.


----------



## Neilwltr

in reply to the person that had a gig switch and router - plug all your tivo devices into the gig switch - this includes any and all mini's - connect port 1 of the gig switch to the router - remember you want maximum file transfer speed "within" your network - going to the outside internet will ALWAYS depend on your ISP bandwidth capability....


----------



## eboydog

I know this is an older message thread however i thought I would offer a little insight to problem some people may have with using Gb switches. Many of the older 10/100 ethernet devices can not properly connect to the unmanaged residental Gb ethernet switchs. The issue is in the auto-negotiation of the ethernet port, for example I had a older 10/100 Dlink switch that I connected to unmanaged Gb switch, the link lights lite up and the activity lights would flicker however nothing attached to the 10/100 Dlink switch could communicate. 

The reason is that unless the older slower device has the internal drive support to properly connect at slower speeds, the unmanaged Gb switch will "fool" the older device into thinking it's connected when in fact it's not. This is just a limitation of some older 10/100 devices not having the ability to properly handshake physically to newer Gb ethernet enter face, the work around is using a managed Gb switch were you can manually set the speed of the particular port to 10 or 100mb instead of allowing it to automatically detect the ethernet speed. 

You may think it is a cable problem but that usually isn't the case, it's just the older ethernet device not being able to communicate to the newer, faster ethernet device unless the newer Gb switch can be told to slow down and not use Gb ethernet for that connection. It will drive you nuts if you aren't aware of this technical incompatibility. :up:

Now with that, I would be surprised if the Mini can't properly auto-negotiate to most unmanaged Gb ethernet switches. You will usually only see this problem with older ethernet interface devices (ones that are several years older or older). Most Gb interfaces on residental routers and switches are unmanaged in the sense you can't turn off ethernet auto-negotiation.


----------



## aaronwt

I can't say I've run into this before. I initally used Linksys gigabit unmanaged switches when they first came out for residential. They were huge and had a fan in them. Then I switched all of those out to a bunch of Netgear gigE switches. Then I switched those out to all Dlink. And then I switched all my old Dlink GigE switches to the newer design Dlink GigE switches. i now run around 15 of the newer Dlink GigE switches. But in all that time I've not had any issues connecting 10/100 devices to the GigE switches.

The only issue I had was actually with the Roamio Pro when it first came out. But that was with the green GigE switches which were my newest Dlinks. And that was a TiVo issue which was fixed with an update.


----------



## eboydog

If you want a real gigabit switch, check out Nortel 5510 switches on eBay, I picked on up for $25 for at 24t switch which has 24 ports of 10/100/1000 managed ethernet ports and Gb sfp ports. They are more user friendly as they have a Web interface and a Java device Manger that runs on both Windows and Linux. They are true layer 3 Routing switches which means you can do some cool things if you know how. 

Very nice, granted they are older, made around 2009 but much easier to work with if you aren't a network guru. You can get similer older Cisco interprise type switch too,. These things were +2 grand switches when they were new. 

Another issue with these is that they are large full size rack mount switches not to mention they make a lot of noise. I have mine downstairs in the basement storage room were room and noise isn't a problem.


----------



## jmpage2

eboydog said:


> If you want a real gigabit switch, check out Nortel 5510 switches on eBay, I picked on up for $25 for at 24t switch which has 24 ports of 10/100/1000 managed ethernet ports and Gb sfp ports. They are more user friendly as they have a Web interface and a Java device Manger that runs on both Windows and Linux. They are true layer 3 Routing switches which means you can do some cool things if you know how.
> 
> Very nice, granted they are older, made around 2009 but much easier to work with if you aren't a network guru. You can get similer older Cisco interprise type switch too,. These things were +2 grand switches when they were new.
> 
> Another issue with these is that they are large full size rack mount switches not to mention they make a lot of noise. I have mine downstairs in the basement storage room were room and noise isn't a problem.


Well those are enterprise switches which just aren't practical for 99% of residential users. I'm very knowledgeable on networking (CCNA certified, Juniper certified, etc) and consider switches like that overkill for most home networking situations.

In addition to the size and noise you mention there is also the issue of those switches typically being power sucking monsters. I don't know what the power draw on your particular model is but power draw of 100-200 watts is not unusual in those units. That can amount to a $10-$15 a month electrical bill for a device that runs 24/7 when compared to a green gigabit 24 port switch that uses 8-12 watts.


----------



## lavenderhaze

I just got off the phone with TiVo Tech Support where I pretty much got a bunch of annoying "help" which basically pointed me to the Community Forums after they showed that when directly connected to my router, things worked. Well, the Mini asked me to go to network settings and lo and behold, the Mini had a 169.x.x.x IP, my home network is 192.168.x.x, so I setup a static IP on the Mini and guess what, it works.

So you understand my frustration, this is how my network is setup

4 D-Link Gig Switches connected to my router. Roamio Pro connected to one Gig Switch, a Mini on each of the remaining.

These are all unmanaged network switches.

TiVo Mini's problem, can't hold onto an IP... go figure!


----------



## DeltaOne

lavenderhaze said:


> 4 D-Link Gig Switches connected to my router. Roamio Pro connected to one Gig Switch, a Mini on each of the remaining. TiVo Mini's problem, can't hold onto an IP... go figure!


I'd be suspicious of your router. It's the router's job to assign IP addresses, either through your manual configuration or DHCP.

When you saw the Mini with a 169... IP address it means your router did not give the Mini an address -- the Mini asked for an address, got no response, and defaulted to 169.

This can be a timing issue -- perhaps the router and Mini were booting at the same time and the Mini asked for an address before the router was ready to assign addresses. Getting no response it defaults to 169.


----------



## Bighouse

I have a DOA mini. Purchased from TiVo directly. I tried to set it up, but it wouldn't work. The LED on the front just glows a light purple color and the network traffic lights on the switch it's connected to just blinked off and on at about a one second interval.

I called TiVo support and they will be sending me a new one...but, the tech support had me run through a lot of options. What concerned me the most was that they said the Mini is NOT supported unless it is directly connected to a router. What house these days has only four or so devices that need a LAN connection?!? Heck, even having a TiVo Roamio and a TiVo Premier XL4 takes up two of those...and then the Mini is supposed to take up the third?!? I cannot believe that they would make a device that doesn't work with most major network switches.

So, the tech had me work through all kinds of things...and even connected directly to the router. Nothing worked. So they're sending me a replacement. I'm hoping that it will plug directly into my gigabyte switch and, like the rest of my equipment from all different kinds of manufacturers (including TiVo), work flawlessly.

So, I'm wondering if anyone is using the same switches that I am? I'm on Comcast with an Arris telephony cable modem. That, in turn has an Asus RT-AC66R router. Downstream from that is a 16 port gigabyte Dlink DGS-1016A which my Tivo Roamio is plugged into. From the router again is another switch a TrendNet Green 8 port gigabyte switch TEG-S80g which the Mini (and my brand new Sony XBR70X850B!) is plugged into.

So, I guess I'm asking if anyone has either of these two switches and whether your mini/multiple tuner Tivo is having success working together behind different switches?


----------



## gespears

Bighouse said:


> TrendNet Green 8 port gigabyte switch TEG-S80g which the Mini (and my brand new Sony XBR70X850B!) is plugged into.


It's my understanding that the "Green" switches can cause problems when they sleep or whatever. Hopefully somebody who has more info can chime in here.


----------



## aaronwt

Bighouse said:


> I have a DOA mini. Purchased from TiVo directly. I tried to set it up, but it wouldn't work. The LED on the front just glows a light purple color and the network traffic lights on the switch it's connected to just blinked off and on at about a one second interval.
> 
> I called TiVo support and they will be sending me a new one...but, the tech support had me run through a lot of options. What concerned me the most was that they said the Mini is NOT supported unless it is directly connected to a router. What house these days has only four or so devices that need a LAN connection?!? Heck, even having a TiVo Roamio and a TiVo Premier XL4 takes up two of those...and then the Mini is supposed to take up the third?!? I cannot believe that they would make a device that doesn't work with most major network switches.
> 
> So, the tech had me work through all kinds of things...and even connected directly to the router. Nothing worked. So they're sending me a replacement. I'm hoping that it will plug directly into my gigabyte switch and, like the rest of my equipment from all different kinds of manufacturers (including TiVo), work flawlessly.
> 
> So, I'm wondering if anyone is using the same switches that I am? I'm on Comcast with an Arris telephony cable modem. That, in turn has an Asus RT-AC66R router. Downstream from that is a 16 port gigabyte Dlink DGS-1016A which my Tivo Roamio is plugged into. From the router again is another switch a TrendNet Green 8 port gigabyte switch TEG-S80g which the Mini (and my brand new Sony XBR70X850B!) is plugged into.
> 
> So, I guess I'm asking if anyone has either of these two switches and whether your mini/multiple tuner Tivo is having success working together behind different switches?


I use at least fifteen of the Gigabit Dlink 8 port and 5 port green switches. There was an issue back in 2013 with those Green switches but that got fixed by a TiVo update. No idea about the TrendNet


----------



## Dixon Butz

I have 2 of the Trendnet TEG-S80G's. 
Roamio is plugged into one. Mini plugged into the other. They are connected to an Asus AC-68 router. Works fine.
Other mini is connected by ethernet to a Asus AC-66 in repeater mode. That works fine too.


----------



## Bighouse

Got my replacement mini yesterday and hooked it up. Everything seems fine, switches and all! It's supplying signal to an older crt Sony XBR that was pre-HDMI era. However, the TV is HD ready if it gets an hd signal.
I was going to get a av breakout cord to feed the red, white and yellow feeds to the TV, but it seems that the yellow video output can only send standard def signals- can someone confirm this?
If I use the RGB component for the video, does the mini put out a HD signal through it?


----------



## Arcady

Bighouse said:


> I was going to get a av breakout cord to feed the red, white and yellow feeds to the TV, but it seems that the yellow video output can only send standard def signals- can someone confirm this?
> If I use the RGB component for the video, does the mini put out a HD signal through it?


The yellow, white and red cable (composite video and analog audio) is indeed standard def only, putting out old fashioned 480i video. The RGB cable can output up to 1080i to a set that can accommodate it. Depending on the TV, it may take any combination of 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i over component. (There are a few rare sets that know how to do 1080p over component, but the Mini can't send it over component anyway.)

Is this CRT a 16x9 set, or 4x3? I don't remember any Sony XBR that did anything higher than 480p through component. What's the model number on the TV?


----------



## gespears

I just ordered a set of cables off amazon for 19.99 total. I was going to order them from TiVo directly but they were over 25 shipped.


----------



## Marty1781

Bighouse said:


> I was going to get a av breakout cord to feed the red, white and yellow feeds to the TV, but it seems that the yellow video output can only send standard def signals- can someone confirm this?
> If I use the RGB component for the video, does the mini put out a HD signal through it?


Correct, the red/white/yellow only does audio + standard def.

If you want HD, go with the red/green/blue breakout cable. You will still need to use the red/white/yellow cable, specifically just the red and white plugs (leave the yellow unplugged), for audio.


----------



## Marty1781

Arcady said:


> Is this CRT a 16x9 set, or 4x3? I don't remember any Sony XBR that did anything higher than 480p through component. What's the model number on the TV?


Sony actually did make a couple of HD-ready 1080i-capable XBR tvs. They accepted 1080i over both component and DVI. The 34" 16x9 model was the 34XBR800. There was also a similar 4x3 model but don't remember it's exact model number.


----------



## Series3Sub

aaronwt said:


> My Minis were fine connected to my Dlink gigabit switches.


Same here all Gigabit D-link switches with a WD Router. All TiVo and Minis work with no flaws.


----------



## Kash76

I use the green D-Link equipment as well and all works as expected. I purchased a different brand that had dedicated ports for gaming, etc and suddenly some of my devices stopped working. Any chance you are using one of these types of switches?


----------



## break19

I just got home with my new mini last night, and hooked it into my existing gigabit network,

Here is my setup:



Code:


cablemodem w/ builtin router (gigabit switch/wifi)-> 8port gigabit switch -> Roamio
                             ^\->  gigabit ethernet line to the other end of the home.
                                         ^\-> wifi AP with built in gigabit switch -> Mini

The mini has -tons- of issues in this configuration.

Removing my AP and hooking the mini directly to that ethernet line works fine, but now I have no WiFi in that part of the home. :/

MoCa would require me to -completely- reconfigure my coax network. I've got 3 coax lines coming into the room where the Roamio is: one for the cablemodem, one for the outside HDTV antenna (which comes through the wall at the Roamio location, as that's where the antenna is) which the Roamio is connected to, and another one that -used to be- my DirecTV feed into this room, but which I'm now using to feed the antenna to the rest of the home...

Now, the cablemodem -does- have MoCa support, but I would have to disconnect my non-tivo'd room from the antenna in order to run MoCa over that line, and my Roamio is a Basic, so it doesn't have MoCa built-in.

My other option is to split the gigabit ethernet line above into 2 100M ethernet lines and plug the mini into one, and the wap into the other, and on the other end of it, plug both lines into the switch....

but then my home network will not be working at full speed. :/

edit: I may try to use another brand gigabit switch in that room, but that seems to be overkill..... to feed a game console, a mini, and a WAP.


----------



## telemark

Could you grab the model numbers of the networking equipment?

If you want to run off MoCA you just need the Router and Mini on connected coax. The Roamio can stay on ethernet.


----------



## break19

telemark said:


> Could you grab the model numbers of the networking equipment?
> 
> If you want to run off MoCA you just need the Router and Mini on connected coax. The Roamio can stay on ethernet.


Sure, my cable modem is a Motorola SBG6782,

The gigabit switch is a Netgear GS108, and the wap is a Netgear AC R6200 I think (not at home at the moment) router in AP mode using the built in firmware. (AP mode turns it into a dumb switch, disables dhcp and routing.. ) But I'm going to try placing another gs108 there and connect the mini to that instead.

Oh, and my dhcp server is not the built in one one the router/cable modem, as it didn't allow for the custom setup I wanted, but it's isc-dhcp4.2 running on a FreeBSD box.


----------



## fcfc2

break19 said:


> Sure, my cable modem is a Motorola SBG6782,
> 
> The gigabit switch is a Netgear GS108, and the wap is a Netgear AC R6200 I think (not at home at the moment) router in AP mode using the built in firmware. (AP mode turns it into a dumb switch, disables dhcp and routing.. ) But I'm going to try placing another gs108 there and connect the mini to that instead.
> 
> Oh, and my dhcp server is not the built in one one the router/cable modem, as it didn't allow for the custom setup I wanted, but it's isc-dhcp4.2 running on a FreeBSD box.


Hi,
If you have a laptop handy with an ethernet port, I would try a direct connection to one of the 3 available lan ports on the Netgear AP and see if you can pull an IP and run a speed test. This would quickly determine if the AP is the issue. You already seem to have ruled out the switch by going direct to the mini. 
PS. I once had a similar issue when I blindly connected the ethernet to the Wan port instead of one of the Lan ports.


----------



## break19

The AP works fine. I can access Netflix on the mini over said AP. Just doesn't see the DVR on the other end of the house when going through it. I suspect some "funny business" with it though, and plan to try using a real switch there when I get home from work..


----------



## 2004raptor

break19 said:


> The AP works fine. I can access Netflix on the mini over said AP. Just doesn't see the DVR on the other end of the house when going through it. I suspect some "funny business" with it though, and plan to try using a real switch there when I get home from work..


I haven't read the entire thread but I will say that I had issues using my netgear N900 (WNDR4500) as an AP when my roamio was connected to it. The AP was connected to a switch as was my mini. My mini would see shows on the roamio but couldn't play anything. I would get an error. Since taking the AP out of the loop, they do play mostly nice with each other but I do get the random v87 error.


----------



## Elgato54

I have a Netgear WNR3500 router and a Netgear GS116 gigabit switch.
Both the Roamio Plus and the Mini were had wired to the switch. It has been working fine for almost a year. There have been no changes but two days ago the Mini started dropping connections to the Roamio about every 30 to 60 seconds. We went through all the hard reboots for all the hardware and did forced connections to Tivo service. No change.
Tonight I moved both the Roamio and Mini to ports on the router. Now it is working fine.

So, did Tivo upload some flaky code that suddenly created issues or did the unmanaged Netgear switch suddenly start having Tivo issues even though it is working fine with 12 other devices?


----------



## aaronwt

Elgato54 said:


> I have a Netgear WNR3500 router and a Netgear GS116 gigabit switch.
> Both the Roamio Plus and the Mini were had wired to the switch. It has been working fine for almost a year. There have been no changes but two days ago the Mini started dropping connections to the Roamio about every 30 to 60 seconds. We went through all the hard reboots for all the hardware and did forced connections to Tivo service. No change.
> Tonight I moved both the Roamio and Mini to ports on the router. Now it is working fine.
> 
> So, did Tivo upload some flaky code that suddenly created issues or did the unmanaged Netgear switch suddenly start having Tivo issues even though it is working fine with 12 other devices?


If the TiVo uploaded some flaky code it's not affecting my TiVos. I've had ports go bad on a couple of my GigE switches in the past. It is certainly not uncommon. I see it at work too with the thousand or so Mini switches we have installed. We get several troubles a year where the issue is a bad port. And depending on the port issues it can affect devices differently.


----------



## Time_Lord

Elgato54 said:


> So, did Tivo upload some flaky code that suddenly created issues or did the unmanaged Netgear switch suddenly start having Tivo issues even though it is working fine with 12 other devices?


I've got 5 TiVo devices 3 of which support Gig ethernet and two that only support 100Mb/s. All 5 devices are working fine with no issues.

I suspect you have one or more of the following a failing switch, bad network cable, or a host that is causing issues (spewing garbage). Keep in mind when streaming the TiVo's do use 15 to 20Mb/s of throughput, a PC browsing the web uses very little bandwidth and network problems may not show up with a workstation readily because of that.

-TL


----------



## Elgato54

I opened cases with both Tivo and Netgear.

The first Tivo tech wanted to do all the usual reboots, connect to Tivo service etc.
Nothing changed.

This is the Tivo online response:
You will want to remove the switch and make direct connections to the router. Switches can definitely cause issues like this even if they have been working. Making a direct connection should resolve the issue.

This is the Netgear response.
GS116 is a pass through switch, there is no compatibility since it will only pass the traffic or connectivity of your router to all devices connected. To isolate it further please try to change the ethernet cable connecting the switch to the WNR3500 router, you may also try different ports or change the ethernet cable connecting the tivo to switch as well. 

I would expect a switch to be transparent. I cannot understand how Tivo can be incompatible with the most common network device in existence.

It worked fine for 11 months.

I moved both cables from the switch ports to the router ports and , imagine that, it works fine!!

This Tivo "switch incompatibility" is a real mess. Must be a nightmare for those with remote switches instead of home runs.


----------



## Time_Lord

Elgato54 said:


> ....
> I would expect a switch to be transparent. I cannot understand how Tivo can be incompatible with the most common network device in existence.
> 
> It worked fine for 11 months.
> 
> I moved both cables from the switch ports to the router ports and , imagine that, it works fine!!
> 
> This Tivo "switch incompatibility" is a real mess. Must be a nightmare for those with remote switches instead of home runs.


The TiVo devices will work just fine connected to a switch. The problem is TiVo has no idea how you have laid out your network plus a switch just adds a layer of complexity that the TiVo support reps are simply incapable of dealing with.

Case in point I've seen messages from users here that have daisy chained multiple switches together without regard to any Ethernet specs, their response is "it works just fine", hopefully they have at least put all their TiVo's on a common switch to help avoid problems.

In addition I've read articles on the cheap Chinese network cables and how they often barely meet cable specs if at all. This doesn't mean the expensive cables are any better but at least you have some recourse with a real vendor.

Keep in mind that because of how the network works the problem dealing with substandard items such as cabling or devices typically do not show up until you start loading up your network, the higher the load the worse the problem, so once you start combining these problems together and then put the network under a load; for example mini's use a constant stream of 20% of their available bandwidth and probably spike higher when starting a stream or using "trick play" which means errors that would not be seen with typical web browsing and email exchanges start to become apparent.

-TL


----------



## aaronwt

Elgato54 said:


> I opened cases with both Tivo and Netgear.
> 
> The first Tivo tech wanted to do all the usual reboots, connect to Tivo service etc.
> Nothing changed.
> 
> This is the Tivo online response:
> You will want to remove the switch and make direct connections to the router. Switches can definitely cause issues like this even if they have been working. Making a direct connection should resolve the issue.
> 
> ................


And of course, connecting it directly to the router, it is still going through the internal switch in the router.


----------



## gespears

I just had a GS116 V1 go bad. It was really strange. Some devices would work no matter what port they were connected to and some wouldn't no matter what port they were connected to. Replaced the switch and all was well.

Very Strange.


----------



## Elgato54

gespears said:


> I just had a GS116 V1 go bad. It was really strange. Some devices would work no matter what port they were connected to and some wouldn't no matter what port they were connected to. Replaced the switch and all was well.
> 
> Very Strange.


This is a V1. Netgear very quickly offered to replace it. I guess I will give it a try. There is not even a hint of a problem with the other 14 devices on the network. Just the Mini to Roamio connection which worked fine for 11 months.
Thanks


----------



## Prefrosh01

I have been having issues daily with my Mini staying connected to the Roamio. Every day when I want to watch the mini, I have to reboot it for it to see the Roamio again.

I have heard setting static IP's on both the Roamio and Mini may help solve the issue and wanted to get your thoughts. 

Here is my setup:
Moca Adapter {Actiontec} on dedicated Coax
Connected to
Modem/Router{Netgear N600}
Connected to
8 Port switch {Luxul XGS-1008}
Connected to
Tivo Roamio Base

Mini Connected via Moca


----------



## Prefrosh01

Update on my previous post...

I set both the Mini and Roamio to static IP's. They were able to connect to the Tivo Service and worked for a moment. This morning I checked the Mini again and had the same Network Error (V112?)

Any ideas on what else I can try to alleviate this issue? 

Thanks!


----------



## krkaufman

Prefrosh01 said:


> Any ideas on what else I can try to alleviate this issue?


Would it be possible to temporarily bypass that switch and connect the Roamio directly to the router via an Ethernet cable? Alternatively, any chance you have a spare MoCA adapter lying around that you could use to network the Roamio?


----------



## Prefrosh01

I do have a spare Moca adapter that I could try and I am going to run a temp network cable to the modem/router to see if that solves the issue.

It is odd, as it was working flawlessly until I installed the 8 port switch, so that leads me to believe that may be the root of the issue, but it is hard to believe that a simple switch could create this problem.

Thank you for the suggestions and I will give them a shot tonight!


----------



## krkaufman

Prefrosh01 said:


> It is odd, as it was working flawlessly until I installed the *8 port switch, so that leads me to believe that may be the root of the issue*, but it is hard to believe that a simple switch could create this problem.


Heh, that was obviously the direction I was leaning, as well -- and that was before knowing that your problems started with the switch's installation. You may want to lead w/ that info, next time! 

Fingers crossed that bypassing the switch confirms the cause. (And the issue w/ that switch may not be as odd as you think.)


----------



## Prefrosh01

Thank you for the reply again!

I'm looking forward to troubleshooting this and putting this issue to rest.


----------



## Prefrosh01

Well I fished a new network cable to run between the Tivo Roamio and the modem/router. I am still not able to stay connected to the Mini over Moca.

The Moca Adapter is currently plugged into a power strip. Do you think this could be causing any of the connection issues?


----------



## Elgato54

Netgear replaced the GS-116 switch. I swapped it out and moved the two Tivo cables from the WNR3500 router where they were working fine to the new switch. Again they started losing connections every 20-30 seconds.
I have a Netgear GS-108E switch new in the box so out of curiosity I installed it and moved the Tivo connections to it. They work fine!

It appears that Tivo's have problems with the base Netgear GS switches but not the "E" versions? Crazy.

Tivo's response is that they have problems with switches and the fix is to not use them!!

I guess they have no intent to fix the problem.


----------



## aaronwt

Elgato54 said:


> Netgear replaced the GS-116 switch. I swapped it out and moved the two Tivo cables from the WNR3500 router where they were working fine to the new switch. Again they started losing connections every 20-30 seconds.
> I have a Netgear GS-108E switch new in the box so out of curiosity I installed it and moved the Tivo connections to it. They work fine!
> 
> It appears that Tivo's have problems with the base Netgear GS switches but not the "E" versions? Crazy.
> 
> Tivo's response is that they have problems with switches and the fix is to not use them!!
> 
> I guess they have no intent to fix the problem.


They already fixed the problem they used to have with the Dlink green switches.


----------



## lpwcomp

Elgato54 said:


> Tivo's response is that they have problems with switches and the fix is to not use them!!


Someone should ask them how you are supposed to do that since the 4-ports "on the router" are actually a 4-port switch.


----------



## Innkeeper

It sounds like the same issue I'm having isn't a uncommon one. Just today I connected a mini into my network. From what I gathered Tivo says that because its not a direct router connection from my roamio to the mini that cant help too much with Ethernet issues. 
I have a question for you seasoned TiVo vets. Here is the back ground. 

Charter modem to a dlink 16 port switch, 
cable to roamio via Netgear nighthawk ac1900
cable to mini via dlink switch
cable to tivi xl via dlink switch

It seems that my problem arises from the fact that I have a router connected at the roamio, therefore the mini and xl cannot find the roamio. My question is could I get a separate router and connect it to the dlink and then connect the three tivos all together on the new and separate router? or would he netgear nighthawk still be casing an issue?

Thanks


----------



## krkaufman

Innkeeper said:


> Charter modem to a dlink 16 port switch,
> cable to roamio via Netgear nighthawk ac1900
> cable to mini via dlink switch
> cable to tivi xl via dlink switch


This sounds like an incorrectly wired home network.

Your modem should be wired, via an Ethernet cable, directly to your Netgear router's WAN/Internet port. You can then, optionally, run a single Ethernet cable from one of your router's LAN ports to your switch -- if you need the additional ports.

As you have it currently wired, according to the above, your Mini and XL are on the "outside" of your router/LAN, so won't be able to communicate w/ your Roamio, connected to a LAN port on your router.

-----
edit: p.s. Quick glossary...
WAN = Wide Area Network (i.e. Internet side of your router)
LAN = Local Area Network (i.e. the home networking side of your router)​


----------



## HarperVision

krkaufman said:


> This sounds like an incorrectly wired home network. Your modem should be wired, via an Ethernet cable, directly to your Netgear router's WAN port. You can then, optionally, run a single Ethernet cable from one of your router's LAN ports to your switch -- if you need the additional ports. As you have it currently wired, according to the above, your Mini and XL are on the "outside" of your router/LAN, so won't be able to communicate w/ your Roamio, connected to a LAN port on your router.


Great post. That was my exact though too. OP, you need to hook it up as krkaufman suggests and you'll be good to go me thinks!


----------



## Innkeeper

krkaufman said:


> This sounds like an incorrectly wired home network.
> 
> Your modem should be wired, via an Ethernet cable, directly to your Netgear router's WAN port. You can then, optionally, run a single Ethernet cable from one of your router's LAN ports to your switch -- if you need the additional ports.
> 
> As you have it currently wired, according to the above, your Mini and XL are on the "outside" of your router/LAN, so won't be able to communicate w/ your Roamio, connected to a LAN port on your router.


Crap, let me try this again. I have two separate networks coming off of the modem. a netgear nighthawk ac1900 that goes to a 16 port switch first then from the switch a wire to a Linksys ac1900 (roamio) wire to the mini, then wire to the xl
I have a business that i supply guest with free wifi so to run the nice broadcast separate I use two routers.


----------



## Innkeeper

My question is still could I get a separate router and connect it to the dlink and then connect the three tivos all together on the new and separate router? or would he Linksys ap1900 still be causing an issue?


----------



## krkaufman

For more details on your router and home networking setup, see:

Charter Home Networking General Information

Netgear R7000 User Guide (especially pgs. 11 & 13)

*NOTE 1:*My earlier connection recommendations *should* get you going, but it isn't unheard of for TiVos, including Minis, to have issues connecting via switches. I'm mentioning this to warn you to not immediiately assume my above suggestion was wrong if your TiVo devices can't see each other after reconnecting per the above.​
*NOTE 2:* Ignoring any bizarro switch issues, where you connect your Roamio and XL, even Mini, depend on what speeds your devices are capable of -- specifically, whether your Roamio or XL, or D-Link switch, support Gigabit Ethernet (aka 1000BaseT) -- and what you want to get out of them. The Mini only support Fast Ethernet/100BaseT.

For example, if you have a Roamio Plus or Pro, you may benefit from connecting it directly to one of the Gigabit Ethernet ports on your Netgear router, to maximize downloads from the Plus/Pro to a Gigabit-capable PC; otherwise, you may want to save your router's Gigabit ports for Gigabit-capable devices and connect your 3 TiVo devices via your D-Link switch.​
*NOTE 3:* TiVo Support's warnings re: switches be damned, I've opted to connect my Roamio Pro and other TiVo devices through a standalone Gigabit switch connected to one of my router's LAN ports (similar to my recommendation for you), rather than through the LAN ports of my router, because it allows my TIVos to communicate, *uninterrupted*, in the event my router is temporarily offline/rebooting.​
----
edit: ... all of which is apparently moot based on the revised network configuration.


----------



## Innkeeper

krkaufman said:


> For more details on your router and home networking setup, see:
> 
> Charter Home Networking General Information
> 
> Netgear R7000 User Guide (especially pgs. 11 & 13)
> 
> *NOTE 1:*My earlier connection recommendations *should* get you going, but it isn't unheard of for TiVos, including Minis, to have issues connecting via switches. I'm mentioning this to warn you to not immediiately assume my above suggestion was wrong if your TiVo devices can't see each other after reconnecting per the above.​
> *NOTE 2:* Ignoring any bizarro switch issues, where you connect your Roamio and XL, even Mini, depend on what speeds your devices are capable of -- specifically, whether your Roamio or XL, or D-Link switch, support Gigabit Ethernet (aka 1000BaseT) -- and what you want to get out of them. The Mini only support Fast Ethernet/100BaseT.
> 
> For example, if you have a Roamio Plus or Pro, you may benefit from connecting it directly to one of the Gigabit Ethernet ports on your Netgear router, to maximize downloads from the Plus/Pro to a Gigabit-capable PC; otherwise, you may want to save your router's Gigabit ports for Gigabit-capable devices and connect your 3 TiVo devices via your D-Link switch.​
> *NOTE 3:* TiVo Support's warnings re: switches be damned, I've opted to connect my Roamio Pro and other TiVo devices through a standalone Gigabit switch connected to one of my router's LAN ports (similar to my recommendation for you), rather than through the LAN ports of my router, because it allows my TIVos to communicate, *uninterrupted*, in the event my router is temporarily offline/rebooting.​
> ----
> edit: ... all of which is apparently moot based on the revised network configuration.


Maybe its the way you explained it but a little light just came on, Thanks!!


----------



## krkaufman

Innkeeper said:


> Maybe its the way you explained it but a little light just came on, Thanks!!


Good! (I guess?)

Feel free to pop back in and let us know how you got it working. It sounds like something to learn from.


----------



## krkaufman

Innkeeper said:


> I have a business that i supply guest with free wifi ...


Why not just use one of the Guest Wi-Fi networks off a single AC1900? (I'm assuming you've ruled this out, but figured it needed to be asked.)



Innkeeper said:


> the nice broadcast


What is this?


----------



## krkaufman

Innkeeper said:


> I have two separate networks coming off of the modem. a netgear nighthawk ac1900 that goes to a 16 port switch first then from the switch a wire to a Linksys ac1900 (roamio) wire to the mini, then wire to the xl


A couple issues w/ this description.


Per this description, you don't have 2 networks "*coming off* the modem." The above describes one network(LAN1) hanging off the modem, w/ another subnetwork(LAN2) within that network.

Also, the above doesn't state where the Roamio (Plus, Pro or base) is connected. Barring any special firewall rules, you'd want the Roamio connected on the same LAN as your other TiVo devices.
As to whether your nested router setup will create any issues for your TiVo's connectivity to the Internet, or with other advanced TiVo services (e.g. mobile streaming), I cannot say.

Other alternatives to your nested setup might be:

Configuring the customer Wi-Fi as a Guest Wi-Fi network on a single Netgear router;

Replacing the 2 Netgears w/ a single router supporting multiple Guest Wi-Fi networks per band (e.g. ASUS N66U, AC68); not without its own risks;

*(Recommended)* Checking whether your ISP allows purchase/rental of a 2nd public IP address, allowing you to connect your "home" and "customer" routers in parallel to your modem (via a 4-port switch), as distinct Internet connections. (Keeping your customer off your home network, and your home devices off their network -- assuming isolation is desired.)


----------



## rconti

There's definitely something very strange going on with TiVo networking. 

I recently added a 2nd Mini to my home setup (the master is a Bolt, and the Mini in the gym works just fine, wired). 

I've got a few Meraki APs, a Ubiquiti switch, and a consumer Cisco gig switch in there somewhere. The network is fine, it's basically bulletproof for all 30+ clients. 

I'm trying to run my Mini in an unsupported WiFi config with a Netgear 802.11n bridge. I couldn't get the Mini to activate to save my life. I reset the Bolt and the Mini and reconnect to the TiVo service dozens of times. Finally, on a lark, I plugged the Mini directly into the network. Bam, activated, worked fine. Moved it back to the WiFi bridge, worked flawlessly for over a day. 12Mb/sec streaming TV over WiFi, not a single stutter. 802.11.n, little use, 10 foot line of sight to the AP.

Connectivity between AP and wireless bridge have been flawless. However, on a TV channel change about 30 hours after initial setup, the Mini suddenly decided it couldn't find my Bolt. (V112 and C something). All network tests pass flawlessly, just can't see the bolt. Rebooted both devices, re-connected to the TiVo network, ran some packet captures, everything looks fine. Mini just can't see the Bolt. No obvious reason. 

I'm wondering if there's some process by which the Bolt 'registers' the mini and it timed out after a day or so.. and somehow that registration process only works over wired. I have no idea why this would be -- toyed with the idea of it filtering by MAC address but of course as soon as I move back to WiFi the Bolt starts seeing the MAC of my wireless bridge and it worked fine for a day....

Clearly something strange is afoot, and my issues sound strikingly similar to others here.


----------



## aaronwt

rconti said:


> There's definitely something very strange going on with TiVo networking.
> 
> I recently added a 2nd Mini to my home setup (the master is a Bolt, and the Mini in the gym works just fine, wired).
> 
> I've got a few Meraki APs, a Ubiquiti switch, and a consumer Cisco gig switch in there somewhere. The network is fine, it's basically bulletproof for all 30+ clients.
> 
> I'm trying to run my Mini in an unsupported WiFi config with a Netgear 802.11n bridge. I couldn't get the Mini to activate to save my life. I reset the Bolt and the Mini and reconnect to the TiVo service dozens of times. Finally, on a lark, I plugged the Mini directly into the network. Bam, activated, worked fine. Moved it back to the WiFi bridge, worked flawlessly for over a day. 12Mb/sec streaming TV over WiFi, not a single stutter. 802.11.n, little use, 10 foot line of sight to the AP.
> 
> Connectivity between AP and wireless bridge have been flawless. However, on a TV channel change about 30 hours after initial setup, the Mini suddenly decided it couldn't find my Bolt. (V112 and C something). All network tests pass flawlessly, just can't see the bolt. Rebooted both devices, re-connected to the TiVo network, ran some packet captures, everything looks fine. Mini just can't see the Bolt. No obvious reason.
> 
> I'm wondering if there's some process by which the Bolt 'registers' the mini and it timed out after a day or so.. and somehow that registration process only works over wired. I have no idea why this would be -- toyed with the idea of it filtering by MAC address but of course as soon as I move back to WiFi the Bolt starts seeing the MAC of my wireless bridge and it worked fine for a day....
> 
> Clearly something strange is afoot, and my issues sound strikingly similar to others here.


There shouldn't be anything like that. I had a mini on a wireless bridge for weeks. and it always behaved the same way as my wired minis. It never lost the connection. Although when I did this it was with an earlier firmware.


----------



## rconti

Solved my problem thanks to a helpful user on reddit /r/tivo. I enabled IGMP snooping on my switch and it magically works again. I'm not sure why it worked wired but not on WiFi; either way it hits a port on the same switch. 

Searched the forums and I see others here have had the same problem/fix, but since I didn't know the term to search for I had no luck. 

This could well be an issue for wired clients as well, FWIW. Again, my symptoms were I was somehow able to find my Bolt from the Mini when wired, and then went to WiFi and it worked for a day, then quit being able to 'find' the Bolt even though all other network functions/tests worked fine.


----------



## ej42137

rconti said:


> Solved my problem thanks to a helpful user on reddit /r/tivo. I enabled IGMP snooping on my switch and it magically works again. I'm not sure why it worked wired but not on WiFi; either way it hits a port on the same switch.


Very interesting. I have several Netgear ProSafe switches; if IGMP snooping is enabled on them my TiVos cannot reliably find each other. Before I did not have more than one ProSafe switch it wasn't a problem. (You probably saw that if you searched on IGMP snooping.)


----------



## rconti

ej42137 said:


> Very interesting. I have several Netgear ProSafe switches; if IGMP snooping is enabled on them my TiVos cannot reliably find each other. Before I did not have more than one ProSafe switch it wasn't a problem. (You probably saw that if you searched on IGMP snooping.)


Yup I saw your posts. 
And now the plot thickens, as my Mini only worked on WiFi for a day before going back to failing to find the Bolt.

I agree it's odd. IGMP snooping, from my understanding, simple saves a table of MAC addresses for multicasting, so it knows which ports to send to, rather than broadcasting to all. I would expect, if anything, having it ENABLED could cause issues; the default broadcast behavior should be fine.

My Meraki access points supposedly "forward all IGMP" or "convert multicast into unicast" depending on which documentation you believe. The latter seems like it could cause issues with equipment that doesn't expect this; OTOH, what multicast equipment DOES expect it?

I may open a case with Meraki because they're pretty good at unlocking additional features if you complain about something. Perhaps the problem is at the AP level.


----------



## ej42137

rconti said:


> Yup I saw your posts.
> And now the plot thickens, as my Mini only worked on WiFi for a day before going back to failing to find the Bolt.
> 
> I agree it's odd. IGMP snooping, from my understanding, simple saves a table of MAC addresses for multicasting, so it knows which ports to send to, rather than broadcasting to all. I would expect, if anything, having it ENABLED could cause issues; the default broadcast behavior should be fine.
> 
> My Meraki access points supposedly "forward all IGMP" or "convert multicast into unicast" depending on which documentation you believe. The latter seems like it could cause issues with equipment that doesn't expect this; OTOH, what multicast equipment DOES expect it?
> 
> I may open a case with Meraki because they're pretty good at unlocking additional features if you complain about something. Perhaps the problem is at the AP level.


Less odd now; when I had IGMP snooping turned on this is exactly how it would behave, coming and going without rhyme nor reason. Turning it off fixed some other multicast devices of mine that were operating unreliably; it may be that IGMP snooping is incompatible with multicast. But none of this is helpful to you, I'm afraid.


----------



## akhnaten

ej42137 said:


> Less odd now; when I had IGMP snooping turned on this is exactly how it would behave, coming and going without rhyme nor reason. Turning it off fixed some other multicast devices of mine that were operating unreliably; it may be that IGMP snooping is incompatible with multicast. But none of this is helpful to you, I'm afraid.


Thank you ej42137!!! I have been fighting this Tivo Mini for over a week trying to figure out why it would randomly drop and and eventually start working again. Once I disabled IGMP Snooping on all my switches, the Mini works rock solid.


----------



## ej42137

akhnaten said:


> Thank you ej42137!!! I have been fighting this Tivo Mini for over a week trying to figure out why it would randomly drop and and eventually start working again. Once I disabled IGMP Snooping on all my switches, the Mini works rock solid.


You're welcome. The other thing it fixed was access to my DLNA servers; it used to drop them every so often and I would have to reboot my router to recover. Now that IGMP is turned off my PS3 doesn't ever loose visibility of the DLNA servers.

IGMP snooping seemed to work fine when there was only the one switch doing it, but when the router and several switches were all filtering multicast packets apparently a little too much got discarded.


----------



## MannyE

I have strange issue with my Tivo mini. 

I added a DLink DIR-890L wifi router to the mix. If I plug the Mini into the router, it seems to be able to connect to the internet but can't see the Tivo Roamio.

The Mini connected via ethernet into a Netgear switch which is connected to my uverse internet gateway. It is happy when this is the case. If I place the DLink between the Mini and the switch (which is my only practical option) it can see the internet, but not the Roamio.

I only use the Roamio for OTA, but it is NOT an OTA Roamio, in case that makes a difference. I don't have pay tv. 

The switch is a Prosafe 16 port 10/100 by Netgear. There are 5 computers, 2 Xboxes, 2 TiVo Minis, the Roamio and a security camera DVR all plugged into the switch which is plugged into the Uverse gateway.


----------



## lpwcomp

MannyE said:


> I have strange issue with my Tivo mini.
> 
> I added a DLink DIR-890L wifi router to the mix. If I plug the Mini into the router, it seems to be able to connect to the internet but can't see the Tivo Roamio.
> 
> The Mini connected via ethernet into a Netgear switch which is connected to my uverse internet gateway. It is happy when this is the case. If I place the DLink between the Mini and the switch (which is my only practical option) it can see the internet, but not the Roamio.
> 
> I only use the Roamio for OTA, but it is NOT an OTA Roamio, in case that makes a difference. I don't have pay tv.
> 
> The switch is a Prosafe 16 port 10/100 by Netgear. There are 5 computers, 2 Xboxes, 2 TiVo Minis, the Roamio and a security camera DVR all plugged into the switch which is plugged into the Uverse gateway.


My network knowledge is very slim, but I'm pretty sure it is a bad idea to have two routers on the same network.


----------



## MannyE

lpwcomp said:


> My network knowledge is very slim, but I'm pretty sure it is a bad idea to have two routers on the same network.


So is mine, but I thought there was a difference between a switch and a router. Or are they the same thing? Regardless, I have in the past had two and three wifi routers acting as access points. My house is old and made with CBS and inch-thick rebar all over the place making each room effectively a faraday cage.

The only way I ave been able to distribute wifi without using 5 or 6 repeaters is by running hard wire to each room and adding wifi access points at the end of each run. I usually use old wifi routers to make use of them if they aren't too slow. At least N.

Good idea or not, it's been working.


----------



## lpwcomp

MannyE said:


> So is mine, but I thought there was a difference between a switch and a router. Or are they the same thing? Regardless, I have in the past had two and three wifi routers acting as access points. My house is old and made with CBS and inch-thick rebar all over the place making each room effectively a faraday cage.
> 
> The only way I ave been able to distribute wifi without using 5 or 6 repeaters is by running hard wire to each room and adding wifi access points at the end of each run. I usually use old wifi routers to make use of them if they aren't too slow. At least N.
> 
> Good idea or not, it's been working.


It's not the switch, you said you added a router. Did you disable the router functions (especially DHCP) so it is just a WAP?


----------



## krkaufman

MannyE said:


> ... I thought there was a difference between a switch and a router. Or are they the same thing?


They are decidedly different things -- as is a wireless access point (with a WAP being, functionally, somewhere between the two). Most modern, respectable wireless routers allow for configuring and connecting them as wireless access points, disabling all the basic router functionality, and yours, apparently with firmware 1.03 or later, should, as well.

See: DLink DIR-890L support page

Also:


> *Topic: How to turn DIR-890L into "AP mode"*
> 
> « on: April 10, 2015, 07:13:54 PM »
> 
> I would like to know a few things: Such as, how would I setup a "AP mode" sort of thing, like the Asus AC68U does. (So my router and modem will be on the same network)
> 
> ...
> 
> « Reply #4 on: April 10, 2015, 08:51:57 PM »
> 
> I use AP Mode. With latest firmware 1.03, it is as simple as selecting "AP Mode" from the Device Mode settings on the Internet network settings page. Easy peasy with this firmware version. Didn't work with the earlier firmwares.


Setting up wireless access points, as you've described, is not just reasonable but recommended, if your main wireless router (Internet router with integrated access point) isn't fully covering your house. But it does require properly physically and logically configuring the access point device, per vendor/firmware requirements. (e.g. Some vendors allow for use of the WAN Ethernet port when configured in AP mode, while others do not.)

And the symptoms you describe -- Mini can access the Internet but not Roamio -- map to what would be expected if the DIR-890L were connected and configured as a second router on your LAN. That said, it's also possible that you're experiencing some other issue, like the IGMP snooping glitch.


----------



## fcfc2

MannyE said:


> So is mine, but I thought there was a difference between a switch and a router. Or are they the same thing? Regardless, I have in the past had two and three wifi routers acting as access points. My house is old and made with CBS and inch-thick rebar all over the place making each room effectively a faraday cage.
> 
> The only way I ave been able to distribute wifi without using 5 or 6 repeaters is by running hard wire to each room and adding wifi access points at the end of each run. I usually use old wifi routers to make use of them if they aren't too slow. At least N.
> 
> Good idea or not, it's been working.


Hi,
Hopefully you have those additional routers configured as access points and you are connecting to their LAN ports, not their WAN ports or everything may work for a while, but your Tivo's will have a hard time trying to connect to each other because you may have created a few different networks. Some routers are easy because they have an Access Point Mode in their configuration, but others do not. 
If not, the first thing to do is "google" the make and model of the router you want to use as an access point with something like "Linksys xyz4000 access point mode".

For the rest...
DON'T TRY TO USE THE WAN PORT ON THE AP, USE ONLY THE LAN PORTS!!!
 Disable UPnP
 Disable DHCP
 Disable WAN dependent features: Virtual Server, Application and Port Forward Rules, Access Control and Web Filters, SPI and Firewall, WISH and WPS.
 Change the LAN IP address to an available address on your network(this is the one your primary router uses). Most LAN ports on the router cannot accept a DHCP address from your other/primary router.

*****PLEASE NOTE******, 
The IP address you assign to the router becoming an access point has to be on the same subnet as your primary router. This will vary by manufacturer, many use 192.168.1.1 but if you don't know just use google again, with the make, model, and "default" IP, this will give you the first 3 groups of numbers. If you happen to get an error saying something about an "IP ADDRESS CONFLICT", just go back in and change the last set of numbers to something else between "2-254".


----------



## MannyE

Thank you guys! I'm going to take a look and make sure I am within the specs you outline. I am pretty sure I am NOT within those specs as all I have done is to plug the thing in and it automatically configured itself. Something which is pretty new to me. Which tells you how long it's been since I worked with routers. 

I really only need one extra router now that I have this new D-Link. However, as krkaufman wrote, I think I am indeed using this as a second router. The att uverse router isn't bridgable, and I still need the wireless functions of that router for the home theater. If I can hardwire the xbox, then I will shut off the wireless features and (apparently) I can use the settings to effectively "bridge" the router (although not in the strict sense of the word). 

I feel I will learn quite a bit of **** I really didn't want to learn!


----------



## MannyE

lpwcomp said:


> It's not the switch, you said you added a router. Did you disable the router functions (especially DHCP) so it is just a WAP?


No I did not. As far as I know, the Tivo Mini (i have the older version) can't use wifi. So I need to plug the mini into the router.

Unless I get a splitter (I guess a tiny switch) to split the access coming out of the wall? Can you picture what I'm describing? I know it can be confusing...especially if I'm doing the description!


----------



## MannyE

krkaufman said:


> Setting up wireless access points, as you've described, is not just reasonable but recommended, if your main wireless router (Internet router with integrated access point) isn't fully covering your house. But it does require properly physically and logically configuring the access point device, per vendor/firmware requirements.
> .


This would be the ideal setup. If I had a second hardwire connection to the switch I would disable all but the wireless functionality of the DLink and connect the mini and I would be done. I am looking into buying a splitter (if there is such a thing) so I can go straight to the switch.


----------



## krkaufman

MannyE said:


> lpwcomp said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not the switch, you said you added a router. Did you disable the router functions (especially DHCP) so it is just a WAP?
> 
> 
> 
> No I did not. As far as I know, the Tivo Mini (i have the older version) can't use wifi. So I need to plug the mini into the router.
> 
> Unless I get a splitter (I guess a tiny switch) to split the access coming out of the wall? Can you picture what I'm describing? I know it can be confusing...especially if I'm doing the description!
Click to expand...

To properly _wire_ your DLink DIR-890L router as an access point -- assuming it has first been properly _configured_ as an AP -- the wall Ethernet jack should be connected to a LAN port on the DLink/AP. The Mini should simply be wired to another LAN port on the DLink/AP; the Mini will then have a wired Ethernet connection back to your main router, via the DLink/AP's built-in switch. (edit: Just to be clear, when in AP mode, one LAN port on the AP is needed for the wired connection back to the main router; however, the other LAN ports on the AP are open for use, as additional LAN connections.)

NOTE: One key bit of configuring a router as an access point is that you need to configure the router as an AP *BEFORE* you connect it to your network. This will ensure that it is reachable for further/future configuration, and that services that would otherwise conflict with your main router have been disabled.​
edit: p.s. See the following image showing the router configuration page on which you'd find the "AP Mode" selection option:

__
https://flic.kr/p/5
​... ignoring the displayed IP entries, as they're likely far from applicable to your LAN/subnet.

.


----------



## krkaufman

MannyE said:


> If I had a second hardwire connection to the switch I would disable all but the wireless functionality of the DLink and connect the mini and I would be done.


As it so happens... (insert horse abuse reference)... you have THREE additional hardwire connections to the switch: the 3 other LAN ports on your DLink DIR-890L -- with one of its 4 LAN ports being used to link the 890L back to your main router.

The 890L's WAN port would remain unused. (I like to put electrical tape over the WAN port in cases like this, to prevent accidental miswiring.)


----------



## dahacker

krkaufman said:


> As it so happens... (insert horse abuse reference)... you have THREE additional hardwire connections to the switch: the 3 other LAN ports on your DLink DIR-890L -- with one of its 4 LAN ports being used to link the 890L back to your main router.
> 
> The 890L's WAN port would remain unused. (I like to put electrical tape over the WAN port in cases like this, to prevent accidental miswiring.)


To be fair, if the DIR-890L is configured properly as an AP and in bridge mode, the WAN port can be used just like the LAN ports.


----------



## krkaufman

dahacker said:


> To be fair, if the DIR-890L is configured properly as an AP and in bridge mode, the WAN port can be used just like the LAN ports.


Do you have direct experience doing so with this specific model (i.e. using the WAN port with 'Device Mode' set to "AP Mode"), or a link to a D-Link support document indicating this to be the case? As with most products, sadly, the vendor doesn't update support documents as new features are added via firmware updates.

As I stated above, _some_ routers allow for this (e.g. my ASUS RT-N66U), but I haven't found any references to it being the case for the model in question, so figured better safe than sorry for the OP.


----------



## fcfc2

dahacker said:


> To be fair, if the DIR-890L is configured properly as an AP and in bridge mode, the WAN port can be used just like the LAN ports.


The latest firmwares for the 890L added "AP" mode which is completely different from "Bridged" mode, it is one or the other. I don't know if in the "AP" mode the WAN port of the 890L acts as a LAN port or not, but as a general rule, it would be exceptional if it does. On almost all manually configured routers, i.e., without a dedicated "AP" mode option, either the WAN port is disabled or trying to use it will not work or won't work properly, hence the recommendation to use only LAN ports once configured as an AP. Likewise, the assignment of a specific IP on the primary router's subnet may not be necessary on "some" few routers which are able to use the primary's DHCP assignment, but this is a rare feature, not the most commonly found. 
According to the moderator on the Dlink forums, use of WAN port in AP mode of the 890L is not recommended, he did not say why.


----------



## JBDragon

Most all Wifi Routers have a 4 port switch built in. When you plug another switch into that router, it's a extension of that switch in the router. The Router will assign IP numbers plug into that new switch and handle everything. If you plug another switch into the first switch that's plugged into the Router, the Router is still doing all the work and as far as it's concerned it's just part of the original 4 port switch built into the router. 

Most people, at least home users, just use simple Un-managed switches. So there's no accessing them, or settings or anything else. Simple to use. For example, my Wifi Router is plugged into my 24-port Un-managed switch in the closet. This is where my Cable modem is and that's plugged into the Wifi Router. I wired up my housed with cat6 gigabit Ethernet. So I can plug into a keystone Ethernet port in my wall in most all of my rooms. I ran out of ports in my bedroom, so I had to add a 5 port switch in my bedroom so I can have all my devices wired. This means a few of my devices in my bedroom go through that small, 5 port Switch, to my 24 port switch and end up and the routers 4 port switch and in or out to the Internet. 

I got a new Business Class NAS, a ReadyNAS 516 which has 2 Ethernet ports on it. I needed a new Managed 24 port switch so that i could link the 2 connections together. This managed switch I do log into like I would with a Router. There's all kinds of settings and can get quite confusing if you don't know what you're doing. So my NAS 2 ethernet ports at linked together on the Managed 24 port switch, but I still have the Router handling most everything still including assigning IP numbers. So nothing much really has changed.

I have a very reliable gigabit network that's problem free. I rarely have to touch anything. Besides my Tivo Roamio OTA, I have 2 Tivi Mini's, 3 Xbox 360's, a Xbox One, PS3, Wii, 2 ROKU's, 2 Apple TV 3's and a AppleTV 4, a Amazon Fire Stick, iPad's and iphones. I have a very reliable network. I also try to assign a static IP address to each device. I think this really helps for TIVO, which is why I have Tivo at 10.0.0.200, and the Mini's at 10.0.0.205 and 10.0.0.210 and a Tivo Stream at 10.0.0.215. I lock the IP address to the devices MAC address so it never changes. Again done with the Router. Keeping things the same and stable helps to create a more reliable network. I've learn this over years and many routers in that time from wired only to Wifi.


----------



## krkaufman

MannyE said:


> ...


Buehler...


----------



## MannyE

I solved the problem using a splitter/combiner combo. Easy. Well, easy because I had two free ports on the 16 port switch back at the modem. 

Thanks everyone for the help!


----------



## krkaufman

MannyE said:


> I solved the problem using a splitter/combiner combo. Easy. Well, easy because I had two free ports on the 16 port switch back at the modem.


If you have the time and inclination, I'd be very interested to hear more detail on what you did and the problem that was solved, as I'm having difficulty figuring out how a "splitter/combiner" (like this?) might have been of benefit in the context of the original problem statement...


MannyE said:


> I have strange issue with my Tivo mini.
> 
> I added a DLink DIR-890L wifi router to the mix. If I plug the Mini into the router, it seems to be able to connect to the internet but can't see the Tivo Roamio.
> 
> The Mini connected via ethernet into a Netgear switch which is connected to my uverse internet gateway. It is happy when this is the case. If I place the DLink between the Mini and the switch (which is my only practical option) it can see the internet, but not the Roamio.
> 
> I only use the Roamio for OTA, but it is NOT an OTA Roamio, in case that makes a difference. I don't have pay tv.
> 
> The switch is a Prosafe 16 port 10/100 by Netgear. There are 5 computers, 2 Xboxes, 2 TiVo Minis, the Roamio and a security camera DVR all plugged into the switch which is plugged into the Uverse gateway.


Unless... you used a pair of them, as depicted below, to use a single CAT5/6 Ethernet cable to connect both your Mini and ASUS DIR-890L back to your 16-port Netgear switch.







Ingenious workaround, if so, though with a couple caveats...

You'll likely experience continued "device A can't see device B" issues for any devices connecting through the DIR-890L, so long as the DIR-890L is not configured in "AP Mode," which would also obviate the need for the splitter/combiner workaround, with the Mini connecting via a LAN port on the 890L.

It's not currently a bottleneck because your 16-port Netgear switch is Fast Ethernet (10/100), but the splitter/combiner workaround will limit the Gigabit Ethernet-capable DIR-890L's "backbone" link back to the central switch to 100 Mbps -- somewhat undercutting the value of the 890L's speed capabilities: Gigabit Ethernet, 600 Mbps Wireless-N and 2x 1300 Mbps Wireless-AC.

Ideally, to maximize the connection rates for devices connecting through the 890L, you'll want to upgrade the Netgear to a 16+port Gigabit switch and configure the DIR-890L for "AP Mode." Or perhaps flip with your main router; whatever works.

The TiVo Mini is only capable of Fast Ethernet (100 Mbps), so the splitter/combiner workaround has no negative effect on Mini throughput -- and has worked nicely to allow the Mini and Roamio to see each other!


----------



## Scopeman

Resurrecting an old topic.

I have struggled for months to deal with my Tivo Mini networking issues and then finally this past weekend I took out the two switches and replaced them with a >15-year old 8-port dumb hub.

This should *not* make my network better, clearly. All I have now is an Eero mesh networking system with a WAN port (into which goes the cable modem) and a single LAN port (which goes to the 8 port hub). Yet paradise ensued - everything works, rock solid.

I moved away from a well designed and professionally installed gigabit network that originally used an expensive ASUS router in the main wiring closet connected to two 8 port gigabit switches (one behind entertain center, one in the upstairs game room). This allowed me to have everything in the house on wires besides our phones/tablets. But 6 months ago Tivo stopped working.

Now I have Eero, I have moved a lot of gear off of wires (Apple TV, Roku, XBox, etc all on Mesh Wifi) and have pulled the switches and stuck a dumb hub in the wiring closet and the only wired devices are the Tivos. (I tried an intermediary step of wiring only Tivo via one of the switches, with the new Eero gear - no joy w that).

So it's the combination of the gigabit switches and the Tivo hardware, and it is recent because that was a very stable set up for two + years prior....


----------



## HerronScott

Scopeman said:


> I moved away from a well designed and professionally installed gigabit network that originally used an expensive ASUS router in the main wiring closet connected to two 8 port gigabit switches


Do the 2 switches or the router have IGMP snooping enabled? If so disable it as it causes issues for the Mini's.

Scott


----------



## JBDragon

Scopeman said:


> Resurrecting an old topic.
> 
> I have struggled for months to deal with my Tivo Mini networking issues and then finally this past weekend I took out the two switches and replaced them with a >15-year old 8-port dumb hub.
> 
> This should *not* make my network better, clearly. All I have now is an Eero mesh networking system with a WAN port (into which goes the cable modem) and a single LAN port (which goes to the 8 port hub). Yet paradise ensued - everything works, rock solid.
> 
> I moved away from a well designed and professionally installed gigabit network that originally used an expensive ASUS router in the main wiring closet connected to two 8 port gigabit switches (one behind entertain center, one in the upstairs game room). This allowed me to have everything in the house on wires besides our phones/tablets. But 6 months ago Tivo stopped working.
> 
> Now I have Eero, I have moved a lot of gear off of wires (Apple TV, Roku, XBox, etc all on Mesh Wifi) and have pulled the switches and stuck a dumb hub in the wiring closet and the only wired devices are the Tivos. (I tried an intermediary step of wiring only Tivo via one of the switches, with the new Eero gear - no joy w that).
> 
> So it's the combination of the gigabit switches and the Tivo hardware, and it is recent because that was a very stable set up for two + years prior....


Something was clearly wrong with your network. I'm going to assume one of your switches. I had issue in the past with a old 24-port switch. Some things just were not working correctly and I couldn't figure out why for a bit. Everything seemed to be fine. It ended up being that switch. I got a new one and all was well once again. I haven't had a problem yet. I have a ASUS Wifi Router, In fact the free one from T-Mobile I got 3 years ago. I'm currently using a used 24-port Managed switch. I have another 5 port switch in my bedroom as I ran out of ports, only having 4 in my bedroom. So my Tivo Mini goes through that small switch and then into the large switch where the Tivo Roamio is connected into. Anything that doesn't move is wired. Everything else like iphone and iPad's are Wifi. I have a problem free network. Nice and fast. I have most of my movies ripped and installed on my NAS where I can stream to all the rooms. Much more reliable and problem free WIRED! It's also faster. You are limited in HD streaming to 1, maybe 2 at a time on Wifi. Not enough bandwidth unlike a Gigabit network. A basic switch, 4 port, 8 port, 24, port is really the same thing as the 4 ports you have in your router. That's a built in 4 port switch. Plugging into it with another switch just expands it to more ports. Same as if you had 24 ports on your Router instead. You would get 26 ports adding a 24 port switch, as you take one port from each device to link them together.

A HUB and a Switch are almost the same. A Hub works 1 way, like a Walky Talky. Where One holds down the button to speak while the other hears what you say. You can't hear them until you let off the button and then they push their button to talk. A Switch works both directions at the same like like a Phone. There's no point in getting a hub these days or using one. 8 port switch is pretty cheap.


----------



## m.s

JBDragon said:


> A Hub works 1 way, like a Walky Talky. Where One holds down the button to speak while the other hears what you say. You can't hear them until you let off the button and then they push their button to talk. A Switch works both directions at the same like like a Phone. There's no point in getting a hub these days or using one. 8 port switch is pretty cheap.


You're describing full and half duplex, which can happen on a switch, too. A hub is more like a roomful of people, and only one is allowed to talk at a time. With a switch, multiple conversations are allowed - Alice can talk to Bob at the same time Carol talks to Dave. I doubt you can even buy a hub anymore, except an old one on eBay.


----------



## JBDragon

m.s said:


> You're describing full and half duplex, which can happen on a switch, too. A hub is more like a roomful of people, and only one is allowed to talk at a time. With a switch, multiple conversations are allowed - Alice can talk to Bob at the same time Carol talks to Dave. I doubt you can even buy a hub anymore, except an old one on eBay.


You just basically repeated what I described. Only 1 person talking at a time. No point in using a HUB as SWITCHES are pretty cheap these days. Kind of silly using any Hub. It's just old tech. It was the cheaper option back in the day.


----------



## m.s

JBDragon said:


> You just basically repeated what I described. Only 1 person talking at a time. No point in using a HUB as SWITCHES are pretty cheap these days. Kind of silly using any Hub. It's just old tech. It was the cheaper option back in the day.


Uh, no. When you understand the difference between CSMA and duplex, you'll understand why.


----------



## sfhub

JBDragon said:


> Kind of silly using any Hub. It's just old tech.


Hubs are quite useful for packet inspection.


----------



## aaronwt

I haven't used an Ethernet hub at home since the 90s. It's been around 19 or 20 years now.

Sent from my Galaxy S8 using Tapatalk


----------

