# Sons of Anarchy - "To Be, Part 2" - 12/6/11



## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

I thought it was an ok finale. Disappointed Clay lives and Tara stays but should be an interesting, somewhat new direction next season. 

Loved Juice watching The Shield in jail :up:


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Wow. I thought there would be a "somebody's playing somebody" twist to keep enough people alive and out of jail to still have a show, but I didn't see the CIA thing coming! Looking back, Tara in the van was clearly a snatch not a hit.

I would have thought Jax would need to tell Ope more to keep him from blowing Clay away. Ope not showing up means this will be an issue next year.

And they can end _next_ season with Jax needing to to stay so he can take the club straight like daddy wanted.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I thought it was strange Jax didn't come clean with Opie...he really NEEDS Ope on his side, and kinda blew his chance.

That scene at the table was very powerful.

I really really REALLY wanted Clay to die, but this is almost better...he's completely destroyed now. And Gemma's not doing much better. Couldn't have happened to a nicer couple!

The CIA thing came completely out of the blue for me, and yet it so neatly tied up so many loose ends (so early in the episode!) and fits in with everything that's gone on before that I am yet again blown away by how beautifully these people (the writers) plan things out.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

I spelled Anarchy wrong and it won't let me edit it. Damn lol. I agree Opie will be a problem next year, that's good. And the Oakland thing will be a problem and the Irish will still be in the mix. Although I wanted Clay killed I guess it will be interesting to see how he does NOT being Prez. I can't see him being a model member. But Tara staying? I get the whole Tara/Gemma conflict over Jax but I wish they would just both go away.


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## Mike Lang (Nov 17, 1999)

VegasVic said:


> I spelled Anarchy wrong and it won't let me edit it.


Got it.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Ausiello talks to Sutter about the finalé and what's coming.

Lots of interesting insights, and no substantial spoilers for next season, although he talks a lot about what's coming in general terms.


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## chronatog7 (Aug 26, 2004)

So based on the picture at the end, which it was cool, can we assume history will repeat itself. Opie kills Jax and takes Tara? 

On a serious note, I felt the finale was a soft reset button with the CIA stuff. For me it was a little of a let down from a great season.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Clay didn't get killed but other than that, I can live with how things played out. Clay is a great character and Ron Perlman does an excellent job playing him. There should be lots of tension between him and Jax next year.

I guess Jax can just take the presidency with no vote or explanation.

I hoped Opie would walk through that door at the last minute but those damn broads kept showing up. The Tara/Gemma/Wendy triangle will probably become tiresome next year. I really hope they decrease the Gemma as puppeteer angle next season.

There was speculation that Romeo might be a goy't mole but I didn't see both of them being CIA agents coming. 

Juice watching The Shield. There was also the actor who played The Shield's Ronnie as a federal agent. I don't think he got any lines on this show either.

How does the seating arrangement at The Table work? The president at the head, the seargent at arms to the right and the vice president to the left?

The show dipped its toe into race relations this season. Looks like it'll fully dive in next season with the Niners and Oakland's #1 crime boss coming after SAMCRO.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> I really hope they decrease the Gemma as puppeteer angle next season.


I doubt Gemma's role will decrease significantly...there are advantages to sleeping with the boss. 

(Katey Sagal & Kurt Sutter are married.)


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

After digesting it for a few hours I guess I'm more disappointed than I was originally. I enjoyed the season and there was a great build up with Clay and Jax but at the end of the day Clay got demoted. And Tara stayed. Bleh.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Neither Sepinwall nor Mo Ryan were happy with the finale.


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## Tobashadow (Nov 11, 2006)

Damn total darkness scenes blew it for me.

Turn some lights on!!!!


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

I am both happy and disappointed there wasn't a spectacular cliff hanger this year. I didn't see the CIA thing coming either. But, it will be interesting to see how that plays out next year.

I am VERY disappointed though that Jax didn't fill Opie in at least a little bit about what was going on. He could have said.... Clay killed my father too, and I want him dead, but I got this thing that has to be done and I need Clay for that... when that is done, we can kill him... or something like that. He could have had Opie on his side. Now he doesn't and it is likely going to be a major issue.

Oh that US Attorney dude, cracked me up at the end. Him dumping all that sex stuff on the table and floor. I'm really going to miss his character, assuming he's not back next season.


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

Whole thing just didn't make sense to me. 

The CIA thing seemed to come out of left field. 

The Irish not willing to deal with anyone but Clay, just BS. If Clay is dead, they aren't going to kill the deal. 

Jax was ready to use the syringe to kill Clay, then Clay comes to and now he's not going to kill him because he needs him? 

Doesn't mean it wasn't good television, but just seemed too loose to me.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

So is Clay going to take Piney's seat and just sit there doing nothing like Piney pretty much did over the course of the first several seasons?

Did anyone get a "you're my ***** now" vibe between Terra and Gemma at the end there?

Nice to see Chibs get a promotion.

Still one of the best shows on TV!


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

They tossed clues out that the cartel guys weren't all kosher. The kidnap vs. hit thing and last week when they said that Otto had flipped but their "sources" reported that no dirt on the club had been revealed. I sure didn't expect it was CIA, I figured it was more law enforcement and the club was in big trouble.

Considering the last few week's buildup looked more like a series finale coming up, they did an Ok job coming up with ways to keep things going. There will be more secret deals going on next year than they can shake a stick at. Clay, looking beat and neutered will be scheming on how to get back into power. He may be still at odds with Gemma, but they both want to get back on top.

Since the CIA seems to have the juice to keep both local and federal law enforcement at bay, I can see Jax finding a way to milk that. As long as they're forced into committing crimes for the government they will probably do quite a few to benefit themselves along the way. The club will act amazed that their new president finds ways for them to get away with stuff.

I liked the spoiling of the town meeting with the sex toys as visual aids. It was a background story all season and while it didn't advance the main plot along it was interesting. The small town politics will be fun to watch next time as well.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

JLucPicard said:


> Nice to see Chibs get a promotion.


Did Chibs get a promotion? Wasn't Tig closer to Jax at the table, if that means anything?

Did Potter have all those sex toys stashed in a closet in his office?

I can live with a number of implausible things that happened in this episode. After all, it's a soap opera. Gotta keep the drama flowing. But Clay should have been killed. There were too many really good reasons why he needed to get dead for him to escape death and get to hang around with the club next year and cause all kinds of crap.

I still like the show and will definitely watch next season.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> Did Chibs get a promotion? Wasn't Tig closer to Jax at the table, if that means anything?


Tig began pulling out his usual chair (which had been at Clay's right hand) and Jax stopped him and directed him to the next one over. Then he asked Chibs if he was ok with that, to which Chibs agreed and took that Sargent at Arms seat.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

What a way to wrap an awesome season. I hated last season so much but if that's what we had to endure to get this season, it was worth it IMHO!

Really surprised the Wendy/custody issue didn't have any role in keeping Jax in town.

Can't wait to see how Gemma spins all this to her own advantage. No way do I believe Tara is going to come out a winner over Gemma! And when did Katey get so damned skinny? Holy crap, when she was walking down the hospital hallway after the encounter with Jax she looked like she was about as big around as a pencil. And her face looked really gaunt. I don't remember her always looking like that?

I really liked the interview with Kurt on EW. I especially enjoyed his explanation of the CIA stuff and how it was drawn from real life, whoa!


Spoiler



ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: I think most fans will want to know when you thought of the twist that Romeo and Luis work with the CIA and need SAMCRO to keep working with the cartel and the Irish, who will only get in business with the cartel if Clay is involved.
KURT SUTTER: From the beginning. I sort of go in with those big arcs knowing what I want to do and how Im gonna do it. Then really, its about breaking the episodes down and hanging the meat on the bones and creating the story to get there organically. I thought people would pick up on it. If you go back and look at all those scenes with Romeo and Luis and the guys, it all fits. It all makes sense. Even from the second episode when they suddenly just showed up outside of that reservation saying, Hey, yeah, we got word on the pipeline that you guys were here. Clearly they found out these guys were in trouble and they needed them around, so they sort of showed up and shut down the Russians. So all those clues were there all along, and its exactly what happened with Pablo Escobar. Its what the CIA does. It goes in and empowers one cartel. We give one set of bad guys the money and guns to ultimately have some hold of the political reins in a territory. The history was there, and I was afraid that somebody was gonna pick up on it earlier on, and they didnt. I think it was a fun reveal for everyone.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

chronatog7 said:


> So based on the picture at the end, which it was cool, can we assume history will repeat itself. Opie kills Jax and takes Tara?
> 
> On a serious note, I felt the finale was a soft reset button with the CIA stuff. For me it was a little of a let down from a great season.


I was let down too.



cheesesteak said:


> Neither Sepinwall nor Mo Ryan were happy with the finale.


Who are they?



midas said:


> Whole thing just didn't make sense to me.
> 
> The CIA thing seemed to come out of left field.
> 
> ...


My thoughts exactly.


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

Big letdown. Even if Romeo is an agent of the CIA he/Galindo cartel wouldn't be allowed to operate so violently within the borders of the USA. I almost laughed when he and Luis flashed their badges. After swallowing the first 5 minutes, the rest of the episode was pretty good. Gemma is going to manipulate Tara thru Wendy next season I can already see it.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

I don't think Tig will take his demotion in stride. The Shield in Juice's cell was great. Makes me miss that show much more.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

uncdrew said:


> Who are they?


Alan Sepinwall: http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-a...f-anarchy-to-be-act-2-house-of-the-rising-son

Mo Ryan: http://www.aoltv.com/2011/12/06/sons-of-anarchy-season-finale-recap-jax-tara-gemma-clay/


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Thanks.


Also, when Jacks was leaving the cemetary at the beginning did you see the tombstone he walked by with "UNSER" on it.

I thought that was odd.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

I got the jist of what Jax was saying to Tig at the table but what did he exactly say to him before he asked Chibbs if that was okay with him? It was clear he was telling him no no to sitting in the Sergeant seat. Should have turned on my CC for that but now I've already deleted it and it's still bugging me. It almost sounded like he said "you're dead" but that can't be.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

thought it was on ok season ender for a great season.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

Thought it was a good ender... Maybe not terribly exciting, but closed up this season while leaving plenty to get into for next season. The CIA reveal in the first ten minutes was awesome--didn't see that coming at all. Its' funny how going into the episode you couldn't possibly imagine how they can get out of all of the trouble they're in, then 10 minutes in and there it is. And you can tell that was the plan all along (sutter is the master at that). 

I had forgotten about my feelings on Tara's hit but I absolutely thought there was more too that, since it was supposedly a rouge hitman doing the job but then all of a sudden a fan full of people rolls up and doesn't kill her, but grabs her. Then after she got away they showed the guys in teh fan and their reaction was off for the situation--now knowing they were 'the law' it makes sense. 

I thought Clay was dead too but after reading Sutters interview, it's actually much more awesome that he's not. He's absolutely right--it would have been cutting the character short if they killed him. He's gone from the head guy in total control of his universe to being stripped and sidelined and utterly under Jax's thumb. Watching him deal with that (and seeing how he tries to get his power back) will make for a great arc for the character. 

I'm sure the Oakland thing will be a huge factor next season, and having Tig kill the king pin's daughter which sets off the feud is fine, but the whole reason for him going after leroy is what I would consider the only "questionable" bit of writing so far... I don't understand why Clay and Jax blamed his shooting on 'color'. I get that they thought they could contain it and couldn't anticipate Tig going rogue, but it was just random... "blame it on a violent gang who we have a history with but are getting along with now for the first time in years..." 

I like it because that one moment of stupidity/ emotionally charged reaction on tig's part will set off a chain of events that will no doubt claim mad lives. It's just the build up to this massive rivalry was built on a story point I find to be...odd.


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## mchasal (Jun 6, 2001)

photoshopgrl said:


> I got the jist of what Jax was saying to Tig at the table but what did he exactly say to him before he asked Chibbs if that was okay with him? It was clear he was telling him no no to sitting in the Sergeant seat. Should have turned on my CC for that but now I've already deleted it and it's still bugging me. It almost sounded like he said "you're dead" but that can't be.


I think he said "Not there" telling him not to sit in the right hand seat.


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## CharlieW (May 30, 2001)

uncdrew said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Also, when Jacks was leaving the cemetary at the beginning did you see the tombstone he walked by with "UNSER" on it.
> 
> I thought that was odd.


I caught that, too.

"Chris Unser", wasn't it?


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

mchasal said:


> I think he said "Not there" telling him not to sit in the right hand seat.


That makes more sense. :up:


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

CharlieW said:


> I caught that, too.
> 
> "Chris Unser", wasn't it?


Carl.


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## Mr. Merkin (May 6, 2005)

I found this season kind of disappointing, the writing was pretty sloppy and unimaginative. Basically they brought in a new police chief with a hard on for bringing down SAMCRO which was just a swap-out for Hale. Then they brought in the ridiculously miswritten and miscast rogue hippy AUSA Lincoln Potter out of nowhere and he basically just picked up where the ATF chick left off, not really anything new here to see. Then Juice all of a sudden with the racial angle and now, yet one more character cut a deal with law enforcement and was hiding it from the gang, nothing new to see here, more rehash. Then they finally reveal what was a really poorly kept secret and you think it might get interesting if Clay gets killed but they come up with that ridiculous bit about Gaalen not wanting to deal with anyone but Clay and the equally ridiculous CIA business which made all the cruddy Lincoln Potter stuff basically a waste of air time and a cop out on the plots they had developed. I have a feeling this might be a show I start missing here and there and eventually drop off...


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Yeah, the CIA piece just didn't work with me.

It came off as an "evil twin" or "it was all a dream" type of thing.


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

The last few minutes were very good. I loved 

Bobby playing guitar in his cell.
Gemma seeing Clay in the hospital room, and walking away with the unspoken "damn, Jax didn't kill him" from her, and the "she wanted him to kill me" from him.
Clay as just another gang member, but scheming to get the gavel back will be fun next year.
Jax/Tara morphing into JT/Gemma.
The Shield on TV in Juice's cell. :up: :up: :up: Sutter found a neat way of getting Vic in the show. 

Any bets on the Oakland mob targeting Tara for real?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I thought Gaalen not trusting anybody in SAMCRO other than Clay was very believable. Jax went apecrap when he found out about the Irish baby mill in the US. I wouldn't want to deal with him either if I were the Irish.

I laughed when I saw Bobby with the guitar. Does prison have musical instruments laying around?

I thought Sutter explained himself very well in his post-season interview with Alan Sepinwall.
http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-a...chy-creator-kurt-sutter-post-mortems-season-4


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## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

Great. So instead of a whole season of Jax ratting to the ATF (Agent Stall) we have him now ratting to the CIA.

After SAMCRO feuding with the Russians and Mexican Cartels, I have a feeling some wannabe gangsta in Oakland won't scare them to much.



fmowry said:


> I don't think Tig will take his demotion in stride. The Shield in Juice's cell was great. Makes me miss that show much more.


Tig demoted himself when he turned in his Sgt at Arms patch to Clay one or two episodes back. So he's got no reason to be mad if Jax makes Chibs Sgt. At Arms/Right hand man.



mrdazzo7 said:


> I had forgotten about my feelings on Tara's hit but I absolutely thought there was more too that, since it was supposedly a *rouge* hitman doing the job but then all of a sudden a fan full of people rolls up and doesn't kill her, but grabs her.


I do not think that word means what you think it means. 



mchasal said:


> I think he said "Not there" telling him not to sit in the right hand seat.


Closed caption says "You're there, brother." while Jax points at the second chair.


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

Jax isn't too bright, apparently. He didn't have to mention the CIA to anyone; all he had to say to Opie or anyone else was that _Galindo_ had some kind of leverage, and they were demanding that the deal go through.

As for the CIA agents committing violent crimes in the US: keep in mind that the CIA doing _anything_ within the US is officially forbidden. The whole operation is "black" to begin with, so a few criminal acts aren't going to make much difference. OTOH I do think having the recruited Mexican military guys walking around with actual CIA badges was a bit much; they'd keep them unofficial both for their own safety and for plausible deniability.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> Tig demoted himself when he turned in his Sgt at Arms patch to Clay one or two episodes back. So he's got no reason to be mad if Jax makes Chibs Sgt. At Arms/Right hand man.


Then why did he sit in his old chair? He was pissed at Clay for beating up Gemma. With Jax in charge he probably thought he'd go right back to his old position, thus him wanting to sit in the seat to the right of the prez.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

dcheesi said:


> Jax isn't too bright, apparently. He didn't have to mention the CIA to anyone; all he had to say to Opie or anyone else was that _Galindo_ had some kind of leverage, and they were demanding that the deal go through.
> 
> As for the CIA agents committing violent crimes in the US: keep in mind that the CIA doing _anything_ within the US is officially forbidden. The whole operation is "black" to begin with, so a few criminal acts aren't going to make much difference. OTOH I do think having the recruited Mexican military guys walking around with actual CIA badges was a bit much; they'd keep them unofficial both for their own safety and for plausible deniability.


Wait I'm confused then. I wasn't paying attention (apparently) but I thought Romeo and Luis were actual undercover CIA agents, in place long-term to make sure Galindo remains in control, while they secretely maintain control of Galindo. So they're not even actual agents?

I found it weird that the CIA was involved at all... I don't know anything about law enforcement outside of TV (and some basic real-world knowledge), but why is the CIA involved in Mexican drug business? Just seemed like that would be more like the FBI or even Homeland Security territory. I felt like I was watching Alias for a minute.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

mrdazzo7 said:


> why is the CIA involved in Mexican drug business?


To assure that the side most favorable to US interests wins. Not exactly unprecedented.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

justen_m said:


> To assure that the side most favorable to US interests wins. Not exactly unprecedented.


I get that part of it, I just figured that wouldn't be an "intellegence" matter. But I guess so. I'm used to the being refered to more in terms of terrorism and international espionage. Which I guess this is, just never saw it used in this context.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

mrdazzo7 said:


> I get that part of it, I just figured that wouldn't be an "intellegence" matter. But I guess so. I'm used to the being refered to more in terms of terrorism and international espionage. Which I guess this is, just never saw it used in this context.


Read this wiki page about the CIA and drug trafficking in various countries. It's pretty interesting, IMO. In any case, I don't think the story line in SOA is implausible. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_drug_trafficking


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

mrdazzo7 said:


> Wait I'm confused then. I wasn't paying attention (apparently) but I thought Romeo and Luis were actual undercover CIA agents, in place long-term to make sure Galindo remains in control, while they secretely maintain control of Galindo. So they're not even actual agents?


Earlier in the season they established that Romeo's team were all former Mexican military. I guess they _could_ be hired directly by the CIA, but as foreign nationals it doesn't seem likely to me.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

justen_m said:


> Read this wiki page about the CIA and drug trafficking in various countries. It's pretty interesting, IMO. In any case, I don't think the story line in SOA is implausible. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_drug_trafficking


Yeah I figured it was based on something real... Sutter's stuff is hyper-dramatic but stuff like this is usually grounded in reality somewhere. Just thought it was weird cause I never associated CIA w/ drugs (I do now!)... This whole concept is pretty messed up when you think about it, even if it makes sense on some level.



> Earlier in the season they established that Romeo's team were all former Mexican military. I guess they could be hired directly by the CIA, but as foreign nationals it doesn't seem likely to me.


Yeah I didn't catch that. I should know better because this show is always giving out important information even when you don't know it, you really have to pay attention to it. I'm sure there were a ton of clues (like Romeo showing up during a shoot-out or the "hit men" trying to take Tara when they could have easily just popped a bullet in her with Jax being so far away. Plus the fact that Romeo and Luis kept referring to him as one person "he can't be recalled once the plan is in place, we can't contact him" etc, but then a van full of dudes rolls up).


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## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

fmowry said:


> Then why did he sit in his old chair? He was pissed at Clay for beating up Gemma. With Jax in charge he probably thought he'd go right back to his old position, thus him wanting to sit in the seat to the right of the prez.


I don't know why he started to sit in his old chair. Plus he did look upset that Jax didn't want him there. The thing is that he resigned the position when he handed Clay his Sgt's patch. Why be upset when Jax appoints a new Right Hand? Maybe he thought no one would notice the missing patch?!

You can pretty much bet he'll be right there for Clay once he's out of the hospital.


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## Timbeau (May 31, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That scene at the table was very powerful.


It reminded me of the scene from The Godfather when Michael became Don. Very powerful.


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

justen_m said:


> Read this wiki page about the CIA and drug trafficking in various countries. It's pretty interesting, IMO. In any case, I don't think the story line in SOA is implausible. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_drug_trafficking


Iran-Contra. Arms one way, drugs the the other:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra_Affair#U.S._knowledge_of_drug_trafficking_and_the_Contras


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