# Bolt Hard Drive Upgrade Choice



## GregMacMan

Hello Everyone,

First time poster, so thanks in advance for your advice.

I recently took advantage of TiVo's lifetime sub transfer and will be getting a TiVo Bolt 500Gb in the next few days. I know hard drive upgrades have been talked about a lot on this forum and it looks like the Toshiba 3TB (MQ03ABB300) is the drive most used, but another drive that appears to be a viable option is the 2TB WD Blue (WD20NPVZ). Here is a link to the WD Blue I am referring to - http://a.co/ar8Kc0x. I certainly like the idea of having the extra size of the Toshiba, but I'm having trouble deciding on which one to go with. The WD appears to more closely in line with the Bolt+ drives, which might lead to more longevity, but the extra TB of the Toshiba is tempting. I guess my question is, are the early adopters of the Toshiba drives still happy with their choice and are they still functioning properly? Have many users gotten the four flashing lights with the Toshiba? Any other advice regarding the Toshiba, eg. special formatting before inserting into the new TiVo. Does anyone have any experience with the WD Blue drive vs the Toshiba?

Regardless of my drive choice, do most users install the new drive before booting up the new TiVo, or is it recommended to get it up and running with the 500 mb drive and then make the switch shortly after? It seems that doing it after requires two cable card syncs, which I can live with if it makes more sense to do it that way.

My current TiVo is a Premier XL4 with a 500gb DVR expander, so I'm used to a 2TB drive, and for the most part have been fine with it. Of note, I do not plan on using the expander with the Bolt given its limited capacity and extra fail point. So technically if I went with the 2TB WD drive I would be reducing my overall storage space, but I don't think that would be a big issue with me.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Greg


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## Legacy777

I guess I'm in the same boat as I decided to take advantage of the upgrade offer so would like to here some feedback as well. The 3TB Toshiba drive seems to be a little more difficult to find now, macsales seems to be the main place I found that looks reputable.

I too have had a 2TB drive in my Premiere and it's been fine so if there is a good reliable 2TB drive as an alternative I'm ok with that.

Thanks
Josh


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## aspexil

I've had the 2TB WD in mine since the Bolt came out in 2015. Cannot complain and way more than enough space for what we get on OTA (which is not much surprisingly). If you are cable then you may need more space. But that is where SlingTV comes in for us.

I replaced mine before I booted it. No idea if that makes a difference.


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## m.s

I got a Bolt a few months ago, upgraded with a WD 2T, working fine.

(an a.co URI? I'm not clicking on that!)


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## GregMacMan

m.s said:


> I got a Bolt a few months ago, upgraded with a WD 2T, working fine.
> 
> (an a.co URI? I'm not clicking on that!)


Not sure, just copied what Amazon gave me in their e-mail link feature. Here is the full link - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071NLR34Z/ref=crt_ewc_img_gw_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A14Q0BJ8RT77QY


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## Sparky1234

aspexil said:


> I've had the 2TB WD in mine since the Bolt came out in 2015. Cannot complain and way more than enough space for what we get on OTA (which is not much surprisingly). If you are cable then you may need more space. But that is where SlingTV comes in for us.
> 
> I replaced mine before I booted it. No idea if that makes a difference.


What model 2TB WD?


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## Sparky1234

m.s said:


> I got a Bolt a few months ago, upgraded with a WD 2T, working fine.
> 
> (an a.co URI? I'm not clicking on that!)


What model 2TB WD?


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## m.s

wd20npvz


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## Sparky1234

m.s said:


> wd20npvz


Interesting for $10 more you could get the Toshiba 3TB. Is the WD that much more reliable?


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## Legacy777

Sparky1234 said:


> Interesting for $10 more you could get the Toshiba 3TB. Is the WD that much more reliable?


I guess that's what I'd like to know too. For me at least the price difference is $22.72 when MacSales includes tax. I sure don't mind spending the additional money for another TB of space, but if the drive is not as reliable in the Bolt then I have no problem with the 2 TB.


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## tlc

Legacy777 said:


> I guess that's what I'd like to know too. For me at least the price difference is $22.72 when MacSales includes tax. I sure don't mind spending the additional money for another TB of space, but if the drive is not as reliable in the Bolt then I have no problem with the 2 TB.


The WD is from the same series used in the 1tb Bolt and 3tb Bolt+. There have been *a couple* of reports _(not statistically significant)_ of the 3tb Toshiba failing after a time, so some people consider the WD safer.

(I've been doing a lot of reading as my new Bolt arrives today. I haven't made up my mind yet and will wait a couple/few weeks to see there are any issue with the new Bolt before I open it up.)


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## Legacy777

I ended up deciding to get the 3TB Toshiba from MacSales. I just purchased it so it'll probably be next week before I get it. I've got my Bolt sitting there now. I also need an HDMI splitter so I'm hoping to set everything up next week. Hopefully swapping the cable card and getting that running goes smoothly with Comcast.


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## NoVa

Legacy777 said:


> I ended up deciding to get the 3TB Toshiba from MacSales. I just purchased it so it'll probably be next week before I get it. I've got my Bolt sitting there now. I also need an HDMI splitter so I'm hoping to set everything up next week. Hopefully swapping the cable card and getting that running goes smoothly with Comcast.


What's the HDMI splitter in this equation do?


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## sfhub

NoVa said:


> What's the HDMI splitter in this equation do?


Edit: Actually it was on the other thread you replied to. He wants to use HDMI audio to his receiver and HDMI to his display.

Probably need support for multiple displays or workaround some HDMI/HDCP compatibility issue.


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## HerronScott

m.s said:


> I got a Bolt a few months ago, upgraded with a WD 2T, working fine.
> 
> (an a.co URI? I'm not clicking on that!)


Who did you get it from and did you register it with Western Digital for the warranty?

Scott


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## mrcowboy99

TOSMQ03ABB300 3.0TB Toshiba 5400RPM 15mm 2.5" NB is what I installed in April 2017 when I upgraded my Series 3 to a Bolt. Working flawless.


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## fis

I know this has been discussed ad nauseam in several threads, but in considering HD upgrades, I'm trying to synthesize all I've read and wondering if anybody has had *warranty experience with Western Digital* on the WD Blue drives?

I ask because according to WD's website, the 2 year warranty _does not apply_ to drives that were sold as components. It only applies to retail packages; and as far as I can tell, the 2TB WD20NPVZ that Tivo uses in the Bolt (and many here have recommended as a capacity upgrade) is only sold as an OEM component.

_*If that is true*_, then is it reasonable to assume that our upgrade options are:

1) The *2TB 2.5" WD20NPVZ*
PRICE: Currently as low as $95 (but doesn't appear to be authorized WD dealer)
PROS: Tivo's choice, seemingly reliable 
CONS: Effectively no warranty (*is this true?*)

2) The *3TB 2.5" Toshiba MQ03ABB300*
PRICE: Currently $130 from MacSales
PROS: High capacity, reported reliable for many folks, supported by Toshiba warranty 
CONS: Warranty is 3 years _from mfg date (not purchase date)_ and provides partial pro-rated refund rather than replacement _(also I went this route and the drive failed after 6 months, so while awaiting my refund I'm debating these other options)_.

3) *External 3.5" drive via direct SATA connection to the Bolt motherboard*
COST: Varies
PROS: Big capacities possible. Reliable warrantied AV-rated drives available? (*is this true? what are they?*)
CONS: Requires keeping the Bolt case open or cutting a hole in the Bolt case. Also is this is sometimes failing on folks as well?​
Am I missing anything? Can anybody confirm the WD warranty issue? Personally, I would gladly choose option 3 if somebody pointed to a drive that was known to be reliable for Tivo and covered by warranty.


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## atmuscarella

fis: Regarding using an external 3.5 inch drive. Best drives appear to be WD Red (5400 rpm version), the NEW WD Purple (not the old ones) also appear to be a good fit. There are no issues if you use a SATA cable (direct from mother broad to hard drive), some people used SATA to eSATA enclosures to start and that did have problems after a software update. As long as you are using a direct SATA cable how you power the external hard drive doesn't really matter, but some enclosures make it hard to use the direct SATA cable. If you have a safe place for the drive you could just use a power brick to power the drive. Something like this:https://www.amazon.com/TechIntheBox...09569037&sr=8-11&keywords=sata+external+power


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## HerronScott

If you want to go with option 1 and warranty is an issue you can buy it direct from WD but the cost is higher.

Scott


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## outinstyle

I finally made my decision to upgrade my bolt 500 via the external option. 

Which drive is the most reliable?

What are the model numbers for the two that you recommended "WD Red (5400 rpm version), the NEW WD Purple"?

Thanks in advance

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## atmuscarella

outinstyle said:


> I finally made my decision to upgrade my bolt 500 via the external option.
> 
> Which drive is the most reliable?
> 
> What are the model numbers for the two that you recommended "WD Red (5400 rpm version), the NEW WD Purple"?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Here is a link to the Western Digital web page about the Red drives, drive numbers are towards the bottom: WD Red - Network Attached Storage (NAS) Hard Drive | Western Digital (WD)

And here is the link to the WD web page about the Purple drives again drive numbers are listed towards the bottom: WD Purple Surveillance Internal Hard Drive | Western Digital (WD)

Both drives series have 3 yr. warranty (assuming you buy from an authorized dealer) which is more reliable is an unknown.


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## fis

atmuscarella said:


> fis: Regarding using an external 3.5 inch drive. Best drives appear to be WD Red (5400 rpm version), the NEW WD Purple (not the old ones) also appear to be a good fit. There are no issues if you use a SATA cable (direct from mother broad to hard drive), some people used SATA to eSATA enclosures to start and that did have problems after a software update. As long as you are using a direct SATA cable how you power the external hard drive doesn't really matter, but some enclosures make it hard to use the direct SATA cable. If you have a safe place for the drive you could just use a power brick to power the drive. Something like this:https://www.amazon.com/TechIntheBox...09569037&sr=8-11&keywords=sata+external+power


This is extremely helpful. Since all the eSATA solutions no longer work, I've been wondering whether I needed an enclosure at all (my Bolt's in a cabinet with plenty of room, so ugly is not a concern).

I already have one of these powered EZDocks lying around unused. So would I be correct in assuming I could just lie the WD Red drive flat in the cabinet, get a 15-pin extension cable to use that dock to power the drive, and get a SATA data cable to directly connect the drive to the Bolt?


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## atmuscarella

fis said:


> This is extremely helpful. Since all the eSATA solutions no longer work, I've been wondering whether I needed an enclosure at all (my Bolt's in a cabinet with plenty of room, so ugly is not a concern).
> 
> I already have one of these powered EZDocks lying around unused. So would I be correct in assuming I could just lie the WD Red drive flat in the cabinet, get a 15-pin extension cable to use that dock to power the drive, and get a SATA data cable to directly connect the drive to the Bolt?


I am guessing it will work, the assumption would be that it will provide power without something being plugged into it's SATA connection.


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## Tony_T

I'm planning on getting a 500GB Bolt this month (my 1st Tivo) with the intent on upgrading to 2TB with the WD20NPVZ (from Amazon @ $118 w/free shipping).

If I activate with the 500GB (I may decide to return within 30 days), what will I lose when I upgrade to 2TB? (besides, of course, any recordings). Will the Bolt need to be re-activated? (and if so what does that mean?) Will scheduled recording (season pass) be lost?


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## fis

Tony_T said:


> I'm planning on getting a 500GB Bolt this month (my 1st Tivo) with the intent on upgrading to 2TB with the WD20NPVZ (btw, only 3 left at Amazon from aPrime @ $118 w/free shipping).
> 
> If I activate with the 500GB (I may decide to return within 30 days), what will I lose when I upgrade to 2TB? (besides, of course, any recordings). Will the Bolt need to be re-activated? (and if so what does that mean?) Will scheduled recording (season pass) be lost?


Things like season passes that are stored in the cloud should not be lost. As I recall, settings that are local to your Bolt, like checked/unchecked channels, may have to be selected again.


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## ggieseke

Back up your season passes and channel lineup settings with kmttg, then you can restore them after the drive swap. In my experience with Roamios the only thing that will survive is the name of the TiVo.


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## Sparky1234

Tony_T said:


> I'm planning on getting a 500GB Bolt this month (my 1st Tivo) with the intent on upgrading to 2TB with the WD20NPVZ (btw, only 3 left at Amazon from aPrime @ $118 w/free shipping).
> 
> If I activate with the 500GB (I may decide to return within 30 days), what will I lose when I upgrade to 2TB? (besides, of course, any recordings). Will the Bolt need to be re-activated? (and if so what does that mean?) Will scheduled recording (season pass) be lost?


Congrats on your decision to go TiVo!


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## Tony_T

ggieseke said:


> Back up your season passes and channel lineup settings with kmttg, then you can restore them after the drive swap.


kmttg looks interesting - Thanks.


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## Sparky1234

Tony_T said:


> kmttg looks interesting - Thanks.


kmttg is great and pytivo is another great program worth looking into.


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## Tony_T

Thanks, I'll take a look at pytivo. (Still need to buy the Bolt )


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## idksmy

IMO, and what I've done with a Roamio Basic and a Bolt, the simplest solution with your first Tivo, is to;

1. Buy the Tivo you want with the smallest hard drive.
2. Replace the internal drive with the Toshiba as soon as you open the box, i.e., do not run through Guided Setup using the original hard drive.
3. Plug the Tivo in, run through Guided Setup.
4. Done.

No need to back anything up, transfer it, etc.


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## Tony_T

I was considering that, but as this will be my 1st Tivo, I've decided to use the 500GB for a little while, so if for any reason I want to return it, I didn't void anything. Also, I'm going to install the WD 2TD as it has more than enough space for my needs.


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## southerndoc

idksmy said:


> IMO, and what I've done with a Roamio Basic and a Bolt, the simplest solution with your first Tivo, is to;
> 
> 1. Buy the Tivo you want with the smallest hard drive.
> 2. Replace the internal drive with the Toshiba as soon as you open the box, i.e., do not run through Guided Setup using the original hard drive.
> 3. Plug the Tivo in, run through Guided Setup.
> 4. Done.
> 
> No need to back anything up, transfer it, etc.


What's the maximum size drive the TiVo will take? I'm really tempted to put an 8 or 10 TB Enterprise drive in my next one. I've always had TiVo's to fail around 3-5 years.


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## Sparky1234

geekmedic said:


> What's the maximum size drive the TiVo will take? I'm really tempted to put an 8 or 10 TB Enterprise drive in my next one. I've always had TiVo's to fail around 3-5 years.


As big as you want in a Bolt... 3.5" on the outside.


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## Sparky1234

Tony_T said:


> I was considering that, but as this will be my 1st Tivo, I've decided to use the 500GB for a little while, so if for any reason I want to return it, I didn't void anything. Also, I'm going to install the WD 2TD as it has more than enough space for my needs.


2TB will seem small in a year...


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## Tony_T

Sparky1234 said:


> 2TB will seem small in a year...


I've been using 1TB expansion on my SA8300 for over 8 years and rarely reach capacity, so no.


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## idksmy

geekmedic said:


> What's the maximum size drive the TiVo will take? I'm really tempted to put an 8 or 10 TB Enterprise drive in my next one. I've always had TiVo's to fail around 3-5 years.


Up to 3 TB, you can simply replace the internal drive and the Tivo will format it and use it.

Larger than 3 TB, you have to use a utility to format it before you install the drive. There are instructions and links to the program on TCF. I think the utility will handle up to 8 TB drives. So, no, it is not 'as big as you want'.

2.5" internal drives for Bolts
3.5" internal drives for Roamios

Having an external drive never appealed to me. YMMV.


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## Sparky1234

idksmy said:


> Up to 3 TB, you can simply replace the internal drive and the Tivo will format it and use it.
> 
> Larger than 3 TB, you have to use a utility to format it before you install the drive. There are instructions and links to the program on TCF. I think the utility will handle up to 8 TB drives. So, no, it is not 'as big as you want'.
> 
> 2.5" internal drives for Bolts
> 3.5" internal drives for Roamios
> 
> Having an external drive never appealed to me. YMMV.


I've read that Bolt can use any sized HD mounted externally with it's own power supply. Is that not true???


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## idksmy

Sparky1234 said:


> I've read that Bolt can use any sized HD mounted externally with it's own power supply. Is that not true???


No idea. Perhaps external drives do not need to be formatted like internal drives do.


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## aaronwt

Tony_T said:


> I'm planning on getting a 500GB Bolt this month (my 1st Tivo) with the intent on upgrading to 2TB with the WD20NPVZ (from Amazon @ $118 w/free shipping).
> 
> If I activate with the 500GB (I may decide to return within 30 days), what will I lose when I upgrade to 2TB? (besides, of course, any recordings). Will the Bolt need to be re-activated? (and if so what does that mean?) Will scheduled recording (season pass) be lost?


What about the 2TB Toshiba?


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## Tony_T

aaronwt said:


> What about the 2TB Toshiba?


From what I've read here, the WD20NPVZ is a popular 2T choice as it's the same drive family that Tivo uses for its 1TB Bolt. I've read here that the 3TB Tosiba is the more popular upgrade choice. Didn't see any recommendations for the 2TB Toshiba though.


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## ggieseke

Sparky1234 said:


> I've read that Bolt can use any sized HD mounted externally with it's own power supply. Is that not true???


The current single-internal-drive limit for MFSR is 8TB even if that "internal" drive is actually in an external enclosure on a Bolt. Weaknees sells a 10+10 kit for Roamios, but for Bolts I think the practical limit would be around 12-13 TB since the internal drive is 2.5" and most of the 4TB 2.5" drives that people have tried have failed by now. I also happen to think that dual-drive setups are an extremely bad idea because there are just too many single points of failure. If you need that much space buy a NAS or build a PC RAID array and offload. I'm not throwing stones - I have a 16TB Drobo and a 24TB RAID array on my PC just to offload crap that I'll probably never watch.

I figured out how to break MFSR's 8TB limit recently, but I haven't written the code yet. Depending on how hard I push it the single-drive limit would be either 18 or 20 TB. Even with a dual-drive setup that could only be extended to 24TB due to a 132 character limit in one of the MFS header fields.


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## Sparky1234

ggieseke said:


> The current single-internal-drive limit for MFSR is 8TB even if that "internal" drive is actually in an external enclosure on a Bolt. Weaknees sells a 10+10 kit for Roamios, but for Bolts I think the practical limit would be around 12-13 TB since the internal drive is 2.5" and most of the 4TB 2.5" drives that people have tried have failed by now. I also happen to think that dual-drive setups are an extremely bad idea because there are just too many single points of failure. If you need that much space buy a NAS or build a PC RAID array and offload. I'm not throwing stones - I have a 16TB Drobo and a 24TB RAID array on my PC just to offload crap that I'll probably never watch.
> 
> I figured out how to break MFSR's 8TB limit recently, but I haven't written the code yet. Depending on how hard I push it the single-drive limit would be either 18 or 20 TB. Even with a dual-drive setup that could only be extended to 24TB due to a 132 character limit in one of the MFS header fields.


Thanks for the clarification.


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## outinstyle

Is there a "weaknees" type service in NYC that I can have upgrade my bolt?

I don't want to take the chance of doing it myself and also don't want a week of "downtime" either for shipping it back and forth.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Jimbo687

Has anyone tried the WD Easystore 8TB External USB Hard Drive ..."recently"...? They used to be red label and were a viable external upgrade option. Now they may be some white label drives. Best Buy will be selling these 8TB for $129.99 starting tomorrow for Black Friday. Would love to buy a few if anyone has had positive experience w/ them recently.


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## fis

Jimbo687 said:


> Has anyone tried the WD Easystore 8TB External USB Hard Drive ..."recently"...? They used to be red label and were a viable external upgrade option. Now they may be some white label drives. Best Buy will be selling these 8TB for $129.99 starting tomorrow for Black Friday. Would love to buy a few if anyone has had positive experience w/ them recently.


A quick web search says some folks have opened these and harvested a WD80EFAX red drive. One review I read said that the drives inside these things will sometimes not turn on when harvested and plugged directly into a computer, due to pin3 being powered on older SATA power plugs, which is now used as a disable pin for remote drive reboots. That's as much as I know. YMMV.


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## fis

Wow. Having had a bad experience with the 3TB Toshiba (and with Toshiba's warranty), I was ready to "downgrade" to the 2TB WD20NPVZ Blue drive, but those seem to be going out of stock rapidly, and the best price I can find from a WD authorized dealer is $155.

I am assuming that if I buy it from a random Amazon marketplace seller for $80, then WD will not honor the warranty?


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## Tony_T

fis said:


> Wow. Having had a bad experience with the 3TB Toshiba (and with Toshiba's warranty), I was ready to "downgrade" to the 2TB WD20NPVZ Blue drive, but those seem to be going out of stock rapidly, and the best price I can find from a WD authorized dealer is $155.
> 
> I am assuming that if I buy it from a random Amazon marketplace seller for $80, then WD will not honor the warranty?


I don't think these are going out of stock.
(Maybe high demand with the TiVo sales of 500GB Bolts)
New @ Amazon for $120 + $11 shipping


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## fis

Tony_T said:


> New @ Amazon for $120 + $11 shipping


That's an Amazon Marketplace seller "Anand International, Inc." There are couple of sellers with even lower prices but I don't think any of them would be considered authorized sellers by Western Digital if you had a warranty claim. I could be wrong, but:
_"No limited warranty is provided by WD unless your WD Product ("Product") was purchased from an authorized distributor or authorized reseller."_
The lowest price I see from an authorized WD distributor is $155 (both MacMall and TigerDirect). The drive appears to be out of stock at BestBuy, Amazon, Dell, Fry's, NewEgg, WalMart...


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## Spryboy

I've read through most, but not all, of this thread. I recently bought a Bolt 500gb and before I ever plugged it in I put in a Toshiba 3TB drive. When I first booted up the Bolt all the LEDs on the front started flashing after about a minute. Anyone else experience this and/or know how to fix it?


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## fis

Spryboy said:


> I've read through most, but not all, of this thread. I recently bought a Bolt 500gb and before I ever plugged it in I put in a Toshiba 3TB drive. When I first booted up the Bolt all the LEDs on the front started flashing after about a minute. Anyone else experience this and/or know how to fix it?


Sorry to hear that. Search here for "lights flashing" and you'll see that this means the Bolt is not recognizing your hard drive.

Since you never started it up with the 500GB drive in it, I recommend you swap them back and see if it works with the original drive. Could be a defective Bolt, or something as simple as a loose SATA cable. If it doesn't work with the original drive, then you have a Bolt problem.

Separately, run some diagnostics on your Toshiba drive. I had the 3TB Toshiba drive. I never ran diagnostics on it. Mine worked well -- for 6 months -- then I got the flashing lights. Turns out the drive had problems, and I had to return it to Toshiba under their warranty, _which does not cover full replacement cost_.

Start there and see where that leads you.


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## clay.autery

Spryboy said:


> I've read through most, but not all, of this thread. I recently bought a Bolt 500gb and before I ever plugged it in I put in a Toshiba 3TB drive. When I first booted up the Bolt all the LEDs on the front started flashing after about a minute. Anyone else experience this and/or know how to fix it?


Was the Tosh 3TB drive brand new out of the bag, or had it been previously formatted?


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## BostonMA

I upgraded 2 recently bought bolts with 2.5" Seagate Firecuda 2TB. . It's a SSHD (Solid State Hybrid Drive) with a 5 year warranty. Drive is thin so no problem installing it. Plenty of space inside the case so it should stay cool.

I took a risk as I couldn't find the infamous 3TB Toshiba drive for cheap and Firecuda was on sale for cheap (Bought it during xmas for ~$65.99 a piece), I saw no recommendations but I figured I'll git it a shot. This is a winner as Tivo is now snappy. (It was slugish before)

Boot up time is faster. Before, it would take good 5-10 minutes to boot the tivo (from power down) and now Tivo boots in a minute or so. (I don't reboot my tivo often)
Setup was a lot faster. When I setup with original drive (as some guide recommends), it took me over an hour. I had a 250meg download speed. (Now I have gigabit up/down). With this drive, I was able to install Tivo < 10 minutes.
Apps that used to take minutes to start (Amazon, etc), now comes up ~10 seconds.
Original 500gb drive would sometimes 'hang'. It would take 30 seconds for certain recordings to load. I rarely see it. (I sometimes do see some recordings can take few seconds to load)
If you are OK with 2TB of space and the price, I would recommend this drive.


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## fis

BostonMA said:


> I upgraded 2 recently bought bolts with 2.5" Seagate Firecuda 2TB. . It's a SSHD (Solid State Hybrid Drive) with a 5 year warranty. Drive is thin so no problem installing it. Plenty of space inside the case so it should stay cool.
> 
> I took a risk as I couldn't find the infamous 3TB Toshiba drive for cheap and Firecuda was on sale for cheap (Bought it during xmas for ~$65.99 a piece), I saw no recommendations but I figured I'll git it a shot. This is a winner as Tivo is now snappy. (It was slugish before)
> 
> Boot up time is faster. Before, it would take good 5-10 minutes to boot the tivo (from power down) and now Tivo boots in a minute or so. (I don't reboot my tivo often)
> Setup was a lot faster. When I setup with original drive (as some guide recommends), it took me over an hour. I had a 250meg download speed. (Now I have gigabit up/down). With this drive, I was able to install Tivo < 10 minutes.
> Apps that used to take minutes to start (Amazon, etc), now comes up ~10 seconds.
> Original 500gb drive would sometimes 'hang'. It would take 30 seconds for certain recordings to load. I rarely see it. (I sometimes do see some recordings can take few seconds to load)
> If you are OK with 2TB of space and the price, I would recommend this drive.


It does not surprise me that the hybrid architecture would perform well in terms of speed and responsiveness in the Bolt. The question is whether they will be long-term reliable in a finicky DVR environment like the Bolt where so many other models have started out OK then failed after six months or a year. I wish you the best of luck with this drive and that your long-term experience is great and you'll share that here. I am by no means a hard drive engineer, but I've learned enough to know to proceed with caution. So personally, I'm only willing to recommend a media-rated drive like the WD reds that were designed to be running 24x7.


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## aaronwt

BostonMA said:


> I upgraded 2 recently bought bolts with 2.5" Seagate Firecuda 2TB. . It's a SSHD (Solid State Hybrid Drive) with a 5 year warranty. Drive is thin so no problem installing it. Plenty of space inside the case so it should stay cool.
> 
> I took a risk as I couldn't find the infamous 3TB Toshiba drive for cheap and Firecuda was on sale for cheap (Bought it during xmas for ~$65.99 a piece), I saw no recommendations but I figured I'll git it a shot. This is a winner as Tivo is now snappy. (It was slugish before)
> 
> Boot up time is faster. Before, it would take good 5-10 minutes to boot the tivo (from power down) and now Tivo boots in a minute or so. (I don't reboot my tivo often)
> Setup was a lot faster. When I setup with original drive (as some guide recommends), it took me over an hour. I had a 250meg download speed. (Now I have gigabit up/down). With this drive, I was able to install Tivo < 10 minutes.
> Apps that used to take minutes to start (Amazon, etc), now comes up ~10 seconds.
> Original 500gb drive would sometimes 'hang'. It would take 30 seconds for certain recordings to load. I rarely see it. (I sometimes do see some recordings can take few seconds to load)
> If you are OK with 2TB of space and the price, I would recommend this drive.


The Firecuda drives use SMR (Shingled Magnetic Recording). Which is what you want to avoid in a DVR.

Although I still have a 4TB SMR drive working in a Bolt, since OCtober 2015.

Also, not sure about your times. If it took minutes for your apps to load there was an issue. With every drive I've used in the Bolts, it's only taken seconds for the apps to load. And recordings also start within a few seconds.

The Firecuda SSHD has an Algorithm that takes the most used files and put them in it's 8GB Solid state storage. So that would not make any recordings start faster. Although the drive itself has a high platter density, which does allow for quicker read/write speeds than a lower density drive. It is rated for up to 1.12 Gb/s transfer rates.

I use a 2TB Firecuda drive in my PS4 PRo.

I h ope it does last a long time in your Bolt though. IF it does that would be a great option.


----------



## LVKeith

Does anyone know if a WD 2TB model WD20SPZX will work. This drive has 128m cache and is 7mm thick. Other than that it appears to have the same specs as WD20NPVZ and is priced less than the WD20NPVZ which is known to work in the bolt and seems to be an older model only available on WD site or a few vendors on Amazon. A 2Tb drive will be more than enough space for me. Don't want to go any larger. Any info/advice is appreciated.


----------



## tivoboy

BostonMA said:


> Boot up time is faster. Before, it would take good 5-10 minutes to boot the tivo (from power down) and now Tivo boots in a minute or so. (I don't reboot my tivo often)
> Setup was a lot faster. When I setup with original drive (as some guide recommends), it took me over an hour. I had a 250meg download speed. (Now I have gigabit up/down). With this drive, I was able to install Tivo < 10 minutes.
> Apps that used to take minutes to start (Amazon, etc), now comes up ~10 seconds.
> Original 500gb drive would sometimes 'hang'. It would take 30 seconds for certain recordings to load. I rarely see it. (I sometimes do see some recordings can take few seconds to load)
> If you are OK with 2TB of space and the price, I would recommend this drive.


any of these performance times are just what I get in my tivo with a 3TB regular HD. Other than the 1 minute cold boot. It takes about 3 min to reboot and get back to a home page screen for my regular tivo bolt.

Apps should have taken about 10-25 seconds each to load, some more than others. Most are about 10 seconds. Going from my shows to starting a show, 2-4 seconds maybe tops.


----------



## CIR-Engineering

Great WD 2TB drive for the bolt of which I have bought many for clients from a very reputable seller.

WD Green WD20NPVX priced at $90 right now. They were selling them for $83 dollars a week or two ago so you might want to contact them and ask for an offer price.

*Low Hours* WD Green WD20NPVX 2TB 8MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 2.5" 15mm | eBay

eBay item number: 3f93923073

I would highly recommend disabling parking on the drive. WD are the only drives that allow parking to be disabled at this point.

PSA: WD BLUE WD40NPZZ

Best,
craigr


----------



## ayceblue

aaronwt said:


> The Firecuda drives use SMR (Shingled Magnetic Recording). Which is what you want to avoid in a DVR.
> 
> Although I still have a 4TB SMR drive working in a Bolt, since OCtober 2015.
> 
> Also, not sure about your times. If it took minutes for your apps to load there was an issue. With every drive I've used in the Bolts, it's only taken seconds for the apps to load. And recordings also start within a few seconds.
> 
> The Firecuda SSHD has an Algorithm that takes the most used files and put them in it's 8GB Solid state storage. So that would not make any recordings start faster. Although the drive itself has a high platter density, which does allow for quicker read/write speeds than a lower density drive. It is rated for up to 1.12 Gb/s transfer rates.
> 
> I use a 2TB Firecuda drive in my PS4 PRo.
> 
> I h ope it does last a long time in your Bolt though. IF it does that would be a great option.


I was under the impression that the firecuda used PMR. In looking for the answer, I downloaded the official Seagate FireCuda product manual, version 100802299, Rev F, October 2017, for models ST2000LX001, ST1000LX015, ST500LX025. On page 6, in section 1.0 Introduction: "Shingled magnetic recording with perpendicular magnetic recording heads/media." Nice confusing statement, but looks like SMR is comfirmed. Another potential problem with the firecuda - on page 17, "Rated workload" is < 55 TB/year. "Workloads exceeding the annualized rate may degrade and impact reliability...". 55 TB/year is approx. 13.5 GB per day, 550 MB per hour, 9 MB per minute. This is far below the continuous I/O that the tivo would demand.


----------



## ayceblue

LVKeith said:


> Does anyone know if a WD 2TB model WD20SPZX will work. This drive has 128m cache and is 7mm thick. Other than that it appears to have the same specs as WD20NPVZ and is priced less than the WD20NPVZ which is known to work in the bolt and seems to be an older model only available on WD site or a few vendors on Amazon. A 2Tb drive will be more than enough space for me. Don't want to go any larger. Any info/advice is appreciated.


I've been trying to find the answer to this as well. Other than the cache, another difference is rotational speed: SPZX: 5400, NPVZ: 5200.
I'm trying to find the real engineering specs of these drives so I can answer this definitively, but can't seem to find any on WD's website. Does anyone have any ideas how to get this information?

A little more research... my opinion is WD built the NPVZ line exclusively for DVR applications. The Bolt 1TB is a WD10NPVZ, Bolt 3TB is a WD30NPVZ. If I could get my hands on the real documentation, my gut feeling is the NPVZ would have a much higher workload rate than the SPZX (or others). One of the few places WD mentions this is the purple drives have a workload rate of up to 180 TB / year. Maybe the NPVZ drives are WD's 2.5 inch version of their purple line? Bottom line, I would pay the few extra $$ and get the WD20NPVZ.

Correction: 3TB is WD30NPRZ. I guess I don't know what the model # of the 1TB is.


----------



## LVKeith

ayceblue said:


> The Bolt 1TB is a WD10NPVZ, Bolt 3TB is a WD30NPVZ.


Well that answers my question. I did not know the Bolt 3TB uses the WD30MPVZ. So I will certainly get the 2tb version WD20NPVX (that Craig R recommended also) over the less expensive WD ZX drive. The only other thing that I find interesting is that Weeknees has a 2TB upgrade "kit" for the Bolt and they said it includes a WD *AV* hard drive. I know WD used to make 2.5 AV drives (the 500gb was used in the original Bolt I believe) but those maxed out at 1TB. So I wonder what WD AV drive is included in their upgrade kit (which sells for $200).


----------



## ayceblue

LVKeith said:


> Well that answers my question. I did not know the Bolt 3TB uses the WD30MPVZ. So I will certainly get the 2tb version WD20NPVX (that Craig R recommended also) over the less expensive WD ZX drive. The only other thing that I find interesting is that Weeknees has a 2TB upgrade "kit" for the Bolt and they said it includes a WD *AV* hard drive. I know WD used to make 2.5 AV drives (the 500gb was used in the original Bolt I believe) but those maxed out at 1TB. So I wonder what WD AV drive is included in their upgrade kit (which sells for $200).


I made a mistake, the 3TB is WD30NPRZ. You want to get the WD20NPVZ. The N indicates 2.5 inch, 15mm thick, TB (ie. 20 == 2.0 TB). The P is "mobile advanced format". The V means 5400 rpm with 8MB cache. And the Z is SATA 6Gb/s with 22-pin SATA connector.

The R in WD30NPRZ is 5400 rpm with 64MB cache.

IMO the 2 biggest attributes of an AV drive is: 1. pays less attention to errors, 2. built to withstand constant reading/writing 24/7. Did you know the tivo never stops recording? A typical consumer HDD can't handle 24/7 reading/writing.

Bottom line: look for a drive with a high rated workload around 180 TB per year or more. My gut tells me the WD20NPVZ is an AV drive with the high 180 TB/year rating.

10 bucks says the 2TB WD AV drive weeknees is selling is the WD20NPVZ.


----------



## LVKeith

ayceblue said:


> he P is "mobile advanced format". The V is AV.


Thanks for the additional info. Did not know that the V was for AV. So it looks like I can pass on the $200 "kit" from Weaknees. The only other items in the kit are torx screwdrivers which I already have.


----------



## ayceblue

LVKeith said:


> Thanks for the additional info. Did not know that the V was for AV. So it looks like I can pass on the $200 "kit" from Weaknees. The only other items in the kit are torx screwdrivers which I already have.


I was wrong on the V. My post is edited with correct info. No change on my opinion that the wd20npvz is still the right one for you.


----------



## Tony_T

LVKeith said:


> Well that answers my question. I did not know the *Bolt 3TB uses the WD30MPVZ*. So I will certainly get the 2tb version WD20NPVX (that Craig R recommended also) over the less expensive WD ZX drive. .


That was my rationale for getting the WD20NPV*Z*
(that, and 2TB was more than enough for me. 3 months later, and I have 40% free space)


----------



## jlb

I am definitely going to get the WD20NPVZ after I am closer to being out of warranty on my new Bolt 500. It helps that many series are heading into hiatus for the spring/summer months but I could still see filling up the 500gb drive fairly fast so we shall see.....


----------



## Tony_T

Keep an eye out for a good price on the WD20NPVZ
You can always buy now and install later.


----------



## jlb

Tony_T said:


> Keep an eye out for a good price on the WD20NPVZ
> You can always buy now and install later.


Agreed. I keep it in a wishlist on Amazon to make it easy to track price.

I'm also toying with the 3TB Toshiba drive. 2TB has been fine for us in our TiVoHD, but that box only had 2 tuners. We now have 4 and are recording a few more shows every week as a result.


----------



## NJChris

So, i got in on the $99 bolt 500Gb refurb deal going on. 

I'm a bit confused on what drive to get for 3tb or 4tb that also isn't expensive. I've seen the Toshiba one used but even reading amazon reviews many are Tivo Bolt users who have said it failed within half a year.

I've seen videos of people using the Seagate backup plus 4gb ($99), but since it' not made for DVR constant read/write, what's the expected lifespan? I'd consider this and hope for a couple years then figure out what to do at that point. 

I don't want to go to 2tb since my roamio i'm replacing I put in a 3tb drive and want at least the same space available.


----------



## Mikeguy

The Toshiba 3TB often mentioned here actually seems to have a pretty good track record, and the best of the lot. And it's back at a decent price at Amazon.com through 3rd party sellers (MacMall has maintained it all along).


----------



## fis

NJChris said:


> So, i got in on the $99 bolt 500Gb refurb deal going on.
> 
> I'm a bit confused on what drive to get for 3tb or 4tb that also isn't expensive. I've seen the Toshiba one used but even reading amazon reviews many are Tivo Bolt users who have said it failed within half a year.
> 
> I've seen videos of people using the Seagate backup plus 4gb ($99), but since it' not made for DVR constant read/write, what's the expected lifespan? I'd consider this and hope for a couple years then figure out what to do at that point.
> 
> I don't want to go to 2tb since my roamio i'm replacing I put in a 3tb drive and want at least the same space available.


I am one of those people who had the Toshiba fail after 6 months. I am not going to trash the Toshiba. Many have had success with it. But if you go that route, I highly recommend putting the drive through diagnostic tests as soon as you receive it. I did not do that with mine. If I had, perhaps defects would have been apparent immediately. My beef with Toshiba is that the "3 year U.S. Warranty" is a bit of a sham. It starts from the date of manufacture (not from your purchase date), and if your drive fails, they do not replace the drive OR give you a full refund. In my case, months later I received one of those expires-in-a-few-months VISA gift cards for about $115, which they arbitrarily claimed was the market value of the drive.

That crappy warranty experience is the main reason I did not buy another Toshiba, and instead got a full-size 3.5" 4TB WD Red drive and plugged it directly into the motherboard via a SATA cable (My Bolt is inside a cabinet, so aesthetics were not an issue. I didn't even put the cover back on). That was very easy, and a worthy option to consider if you have the room.


----------



## Tony_T

Whenever I get those gift cards, I immediately use it to add to my Amazon gift card balance.


----------



## fis

Tony_T said:


> Whenever I get those gift cards, I immediately use it to add to my Amazon gift card balance.


FWIW I used to do that, until I got the credit card that gives me 5% back on all Amazon purchases.


----------



## Tony_T

I have that Amazon card also, but then what to do with cards received as credits on warranties that expire in a few months?


----------



## Tony_T

So look that 'those expires-in-a-few-months VISA gift cards for about $115' isn't that bad after all 

Anyway, easier to just deposit into Amazon.


----------



## Mikeguy

Tony_T said:


> I have that Amazon card also, but then what to do with cards received as credits on warranties that expire in a few months?


Great for groceries.


----------



## Tony_T

Yes, Amazon does have groceries


----------



## fis

Tony_T said:


> I have that Amazon card also, but then what to do with cards received as credits on warranties that expire in a few months?


If you use a card other than that Amazon card, you don't get your 5%. That's all. That's why I said I don't just add them to my Amazon account as credits.
(P.S. that's also why you have to ignore Amazon's prompts to use the 5% cash back on future purchases, and instead use it as a statement credit)


----------



## Tony_T

But it's a PITA to track, so for a $100 card I'll forgo the $3 (5% on Amazon Card less 2% on my other card)


----------



## Ziggy86

Is the upgrade process for the Bolt easier than the Premiere? Seems like the Bolt all you need to do is put a new drive in and not do an image?

Thanks


----------



## Mikeguy

Ziggy86 said:


> Is the upgrade process for the Bolt easier than the Premiere? Seems like the Bolt all you need to do is put a new drive in and not do an image?
> 
> Thanks


Yep: up to and including 3TB, the Bolt does all the formatting, etc. automatically. Over 3TB, you need to format the drive yourself as part of the process (easy enough to do--the tool is available here), but the box does everything else.


----------



## Ziggy86

Thats great to know. The old units were a pain to format.


----------



## shwru980r

I've had this drive in my Bolt for 9 months. It was listed as open packaging and a return. $99.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CHYIEXG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Tony_T

Open Box Returns are a good bet on these drives as a lot of people by them for a laptop and find out that they don't fit in a laptop.


----------



## shwru980r

Tony_T said:


> Open Box Returns are a good bet on these drives as a lot of people by them for a laptop and find out that they don't fit in a laptop.


Yes, most of the one-star reviews are because the drive would not fit in a laptop. This drive was an old model that was replaced by a model that was 2mm thinner.


----------



## LVKeith

Has anyone tried upgrading a Tivo Bolt *VOX* (500gb) yet?? I had planned on installing a 2tb WD drive (recommended here) when my warranty is up in a couple of weeks. So today I decided to make sure there was no problem getting the case open and wanted to make sure I had the correct Torx screwdrivers. The instructions that I have state the screw over the HDMI port requires torx 10 or torx 8. On the Vox I found that screw to be much smaller and required a torx 5. After opening the cable card slot I found the 2 screws on the edge which should have required a torx 10 were again smaller and required a torx 8 or even 7. After removing these 3 screws I found it very difficult to pop open the side panel which is the next step, so I just gave up for now. I am wondering if Tivo made some changes to the Vox model to deter upgrading the hard drive.

If anyone has successfully upgraded a Vox I would appreciate any help and/or comments.


----------



## Mikeguy

LVKeith said:


> Has anyone tried upgrading a Tivo Bolt *VOX* (500gb) yet?? I had planned on installing a 2tb WD drive (recommended here) when my warranty is up in a couple of weeks. So today I decided to make sure there was no problem getting the case open and wanted to make sure I had the correct Torx screwdrivers. The instructions that I have state the screw over the HDMI port requires torx 10 or torx 8. On the Vox I found that screw to be much smaller and required a torx 5. After opening the cable card slot I found the 2 screws on the edge which should have required a torx 10 were again smaller and required a torx 8 or even 7. After removing these 3 screws I found it very difficult to pop open the side panel which is the next step, so I just gave up for now. I am wondering if Tivo made some changes to the Vox model to deter upgrading the hard drive.
> 
> If anyone has successfully upgraded a Vox I would appreciate any help and/or comments.


Surprising that the screw sizes or anything else with the box might have changed--it has seemed that the only difference between the Bolt Vox and nonVox has been the remote and the software.


----------



## Tony_T

LVKeith said:


> Has anyone tried upgrading a Tivo Bolt *VOX* (500gb) yet?? I had planned on installing a 2tb WD drive (recommended here) when my warranty is up in a couple of weeks. So today I decided to make sure there was no problem getting the case open and wanted to make sure I had the correct Torx screwdrivers. The instructions that I have state the screw over the HDMI port requires torx 10 or torx 8. On the Vox I found that screw to be much smaller and required a torx 5. After opening the cable card slot I found the 2 screws on the edge which should have required a torx 10 were again smaller and required a torx 8 or even 7. After removing these 3 screws I found it very difficult to pop open the side panel which is the next step, so I just gave up for now. I am wondering if Tivo made some changes to the Vox model to deter upgrading the hard drive.
> 
> If anyone has successfully upgraded a Vox I would appreciate any help and/or comments.


Yeah, I found that the torx driver sizes needed were different than indicated in the youtube instructions (and a security torx not used on my Bolt - A *White* Bolt).
You can use old credit cards to pry open, but I used a Spudger


----------



## LVKeith

Thanks for the info. My bolt is a black Vox 500gb purchased in early Feb. All of the screws that I encountered were much smaller than T10 mentioned in the video. The one on the HDMI port was a T5 which is a very small screw. I did try using the credit cards and small flat screwdriver to no avail. I'm thinking maybe Tivo made some changes in some way to prevent the case from being removed easily. I will try again in a couple of days. Have a bunch of recordings that I don't want to miss. Not feeling very confident that I'll be able to do the upgrade at this point, and don't want to order the drive until I know I can get the case open.


----------



## Tony_T

I have the older White Bolt, so I can only say that other than different torx sizes, the video was an excellent guide and I was able to easily open the case .


----------



## LVKeith

Thanks again for the info. I'll post here and let you know how things progress with the black bolt.


----------



## LVKeith

Update on Bolt Vox
I was finally able to get the side top of the case off but it wasn't easy at all. It was impossible to remove using the methods in the YouTube video. I had to use 5 or 6 credit card pieces along with a good bit of pressure. All 4 tabs on the top of the case broke by the middle seam broke off. The original hard drive is a WD AV drive model WD5000LUCT manufactured in August 2017. I did not think WD made the AV drives any longer but they obviously do. Rather than use the WD blue mobile 2Tb drive I had planned on using I'm going to try to find a 2tb AV drive if there is one available. Like I said previously Weaknees says they include a WD AV drive with their 2tb kit but that includes items I don't need and sells for $200 plus shipping. Last but not least, all of the torx screws are not T10 or T8 like the original bolt. Matter of fact the 2 screws inside the cablecard compartment which should have been the same sizes were different sizes - one was t7 and the other was t6 if I remember correctly.


----------



## Tony_T

I used the WD20NPVZ
Got it on Amazon.


----------



## LVKeith

Tony_T said:


> I used the WD20NPVZ
> Got it on Amazon.


That's the one I plan to use if I can't find an AV drive and right now it looks like WD does not make AV drives larger than 500G, Did you have any problems installing the WD20NPVZ?? Did you have to format it or do anything other than just connect the drive?


----------



## Tony_T

No problem installing (just needed to route the WiFi cable a bit to the center (as was noted in the Video)). 
Just connected the drive, didn't need to format (only needed if drive is 4TB or greater).
My OEM drive was also the WD5000LUCT, (July 2017)


----------



## Mikeguy

LVKeith said:


> Update on Bolt Vox
> I was finally able to get the side top of the case off but it wasn't easy at all. It was impossible to remove using the methods in the YouTube video. I had to use 5 or 6 credit card pieces along with a good bit of pressure. All 4 tabs on the top of the case broke by the middle seam broke off. The original hard drive is a WD AV drive model WD5000LUCT manufactured in August 2017. I did not think WD made the AV drives any longer but they obviously do. Rather than use the WD blue mobile 2Tb drive I had planned on using I'm going to try to find a 2tb AV drive if there is one available. Like I said previously Weaknees says they include a WD AV drive with their 2tb kit but that includes items I don't need and sells for $200 plus shipping. Last but not least, all of the torx screws are not T10 or T8 like the original bolt. Matter of fact the 2 screws inside the cablecard compartment witch should have been the same sizes were different sizes - one was t7 and the other was t6 if I remember correctly.


Thanks for the update. Would be nice to only have to deal with a few screws.


----------



## Sportsnut

LVKeith said:


> That's the one I plan to use if I can't find an AV drive and right now it looks like WD does not make AV drives larger than 500G, Did you have any problems installing the WD20NPVZ?? Did you have to format it or do anything other than just connect the drive?


That's one of the annoying things about the BOLT. Since it uses a 2.5 inch drive instead of 3.5 like the Roamio there are a lot less options.


----------



## Tony_T

LVKeith said:


> That's the one I plan to use if I can't find an AV drive and right now it looks like WD does not make AV drives larger than 500G


IIRC, I read here that Tivo uses the same WD line for the 3t in the Bolt as the 2t WD20NPVZ


----------



## Sportsnut

Tony_T said:


> IIRC, I read here that Tivo uses the same WD line for the 3t in the Bolt as the 2t WD20NPVZ


Any idea where you can buy that one?


----------



## Tony_T

WD20NPVZ Amazon and Macsales
I never looked for the 3t. Most here use Toshiba for 3t


----------



## HerronScott

Tony_T said:


> WD20NPVZ Amazon and Macsales


And direct from WD. The one that I got from Amazon didn't qualify for the WD warranty as OEM in case that's important to someone.

Scott


----------



## LVKeith

At this point I will probably just get the 2tb from WD Direct. It is a bit more ($137) than the Amazon/Ebay prices (appx $100) but does include a 30 day return and 2 year warranty. Also shipping is free and no sales tax so it's really not that much more for me.

On another topic, attached is a pic of the hard drive in my Bolt Vox which shows more differences from the original Bolt. As you can see there are NO clips on top of the drive for the wifi wire (which seems to be routed around the back) and the drive connector is blue rather than red in the original Bolt. As I mentioned in a prior post, all of the torx screws were different sizes (smaller) than those in the original Bolt.


----------



## Sportsnut

HerronScott said:


> And direct from WD. The one that I got from Amazon didn't qualify for the WD warranty as OEM in case that's important to someone.
> 
> Scott


Not sure if you and Tony T were responding to me but I was trying to find a 3TB version of the WD20NPVZ, it doesn't appear to exist on WDs website. I can't find any 3TB WD 2.5 inch hard drives, Blue, Red, Gold or any color. I'd rather get a WD than the Toshiba 3TB or a Seagate. Does anyone know what model is in the Bolt +?

I guess it's this one that Weaknees is selling. Not sure why it doesn't show on WDs website. Too bad it's not available on Amazon like the old green drives were that I bought for the Roamio.
WD30NPRZ 3TB 2.5" Western Digital Laptop Hard Drive - TiVo Part - WeaKnees - the DVR Superstore


----------



## aaronwt

LVKeith said:


> Update on Bolt Vox
> I was finally able to get the side top of the case off but it wasn't easy at all. It was impossible to remove using the methods in the YouTube video. I had to use 5 or 6 credit card pieces along with a good bit of pressure. All 4 tabs on the top of the case broke by the middle seam broke off. The original hard drive is a WD AV drive model WD5000LUCT manufactured in August 2017. I did not think WD made the AV drives any longer but they obviously do. Rather than use the WD blue mobile 2Tb drive I had planned on using I'm going to try to find a 2tb AV drive if there is one available. Like I said previously Weaknees says they include a WD AV drive with their 2tb kit but that includes items I don't need and sells for $200 plus shipping. Last but not least, all of the torx screws are not T10 or T8 like the original bolt. Matter of fact the 2 screws inside the cablecard compartment which should have been the same sizes were different sizes - one was t7 and the other was t6 if I remember correctly.


If it's like the white Bolt you can just RIP it off. I've done it a couple dozen times with no damage. It's when putting the cover back on that I've been at risk to damage the tabs on the cover. But once I learned I could just quickly RIP off the cover it made things so much easier than trying to baby the cover to get it off.


----------



## aaronwt

LVKeith said:


> At this point I will probably just get the 2tb from WD Direct. It is a bit more ($137) than the Amazon/Ebay prices (appx $100) but does include a 30 day return and 2 year warranty. Also shipping is free and no sales tax so it's really not that much more for me.
> 
> On another topic, attached is a pic of the hard drive in my Bolt Vox which shows more differences from the original Bolt. As you can see there are NO clips on top of the drive for the wifi wire (which seems to be routed around the back) and the drive connector is blue rather than red in the original Bolt. As I mentioned in a prior post, all of the torx screws were different sizes (smaller) than those in the original Bolt.
> View attachment 33968


Later versions of the white Bolt included a channel in the plastic, under the drive, to run the wire. Although they still ran it on top of the hard drive with the tabs. With my last two Bolts I removed those plastic tabs from the hard drive and routed the wire through the channel like what should have been done when assembled.


----------



## Mush

WD Model WD20NPVZ vs WD20SPZX

brand new here sorry if this redundant.
It seems to me this newer drive (WD20SPZX) is much cheaper with more cache, and is thinner.

Is this a matter of longevity, an NAS drive vs a piece of crap?


So I've since seen the newer cheaper drive is SMR. 
It seems to reason a PMR drive is better suited to the throughput of watching recorded HD content while recording a couple of tuners of HD content.


----------



## jlb

I also have a question about ordering the WD20NPVZ direct from WD. I assume you order the one with the 128mb cache? I too may order direct for the warranty.... I’d prefer WD than sellers on Amazon, unless there is an amazon seller you all have had success with......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mikeguy

jlb said:


> I also have a question about ordering the WD20NPVZ direct from WD. I assume you order the one with the 128mb cache? I too may order direct for the warranty.... I'd prefer WD than sellers on Amazon, unless there is an amazon seller you all have had success with......


I understand your reasoning, but I also feel most comfortable with the drive that users seem to have had the most experience, and successful experience, with.


----------



## jlb

Mikeguy said:


> I understand your reasoning, but I also feel most comfortable with the drive that users seem to have had the most experience, and successful experience, with.


But isn't this WD the one that people use the most, at least for 2TB or are you talking about the Tosh 3TB drive?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HerronScott

Sportsnut said:


> Not sure if you and Tony T were responding to me but I was trying to find a 3TB version of the WD20NPVZ, it doesn't appear to exist on WDs website. I can't find any 3TB WD 2.5 inch hard drives, Blue, Red, Gold or any color. I'd rather get a WD than the Toshiba 3TB or a Seagate. Does anyone know what model is in the Bolt +?
> 
> I guess it's this one that Weaknees is selling. Not sure why it doesn't show on WDs website. Too bad it's not available on Amazon like the old green drives were that I bought for the Roamio.
> WD30NPRZ 3TB 2.5" Western Digital Laptop Hard Drive - TiVo Part - WeaKnees - the DVR Superstore


The 3TB that TiVo uses is the WD30NPRZ that Weaknees is selling. Unfortunately, it only appears to be available OEM and the few places that are selling it want a lot of money for it!

Scott


----------



## HerronScott

jlb said:


> I also have a question about ordering the WD20NPVZ direct from WD. I assume you order the one with the 128mb cache? I too may order direct for the warranty.... I'd prefer WD than sellers on Amazon, unless there is an amazon seller you all have had success with......


I think there is only the one version no matter where you get it from. I ordered from an Amazon seller, but the packaging was terrible and as I mentioned no warranty.

Scott


----------



## jlb

HerronScott said:


> I think there is only the one version no matter where you get it from. I ordered from an Amazon seller, but the packaging was terrible and as I mentioned no warranty.
> 
> Scott


I figured out the confusion. It's the selection method on WDCs website. You think you are looking at different versions of the same drive but you aren't. The WD20NPVZ is 8mb cache. There is an option for 2tb with 128mb cache but that's a totally different model. See the attached spec sheet I found. So the trick with WD's site is to select the 2TB/8mb cache and that should be the NPVZ










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HerronScott

jlb said:


> I figured out the confusion. It's the selection method on WDCs website. You think you are looking at different versions of the same drive but you aren't. The WD20NPVZ is 8mb cache. There is an option for 2tb with 128mb cache but that's a totally different model. See the attached spec sheet I found. So the trick with WD's site is to select the 2TB/8mb cache and that should be the NPVZ


Interesting, when I was looking last year they only had 1 2TB option which was the NPVZ model. I would be concerned that the newer thinner WD20SPZX model is SMR and I found at least one store that reported it was SMR.

Scott


----------



## Mush

jlb said:


> I figured out the confusion. It's the selection method on WDCs website. You think you are looking at different versions of the same drive but you aren't. The WD20NPVZ is 8mb cache. There is an option for 2tb with 128mb cache but that's a totally different model. See the attached spec sheet I found. So the trick with WD's site is to select the 2TB/8mb cache and that should be the NPVZ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I posted a question on the difference between these two drives a few days ago, it's more than cache size.
> So I've since seen the newer cheaper SPZX drive is SMR.
> It seems to reason a PMR drive is better suited to the throughput of watching recorded HD content while recording a couple of tuners of HD content.
> 
> copy and paste from a hardware site.
> "In the simplest terms, Shingled Magnetic Recording (SMR) is a new hard drive technology that allows the tracks on a platter to be layered on top of each other, just like roof shingles on a house, to increase platter density or tracks per inch (TPI). Current technology, Perpendicular Magnetic Recording (PMR), uses a parallel track layout. By increasing TPI with SMR technology and decreasing the space between tracks, SMR offers tremendous potential for overall hard drive capacity gains. The end product physically looks and feels like a standard PMR drive, with higher capacity in the same physical footprint. However, the architecture change means the user experience from a performance perspective will be dramatically different."


----------



## aaronwt

HerronScott said:


> Interesting, when I was looking last year they only had 1 2TB option which was the NPVZ model. I would be concerned that the newer thinner WD20SPZX model is SMR and I found at least one store that reported it was SMR.
> 
> Scott


wouldn't it be SMR with a height of only 7mm, and two, 1TB platters? While the NPVZ is 15mm, and uses four, 500GB platters.


----------



## HerronScott

aaronwt said:


> wouldn't it be SMR with a height of only 7mm, and two, 1TB platters? While the NPVZ is 15mm, and uses four, 500GB platters.


I would think so but I haven't really kept up with hard drive design. 

Scott


----------



## Joe01880

NJChris said:


> So, i got in on the $99 bolt 500Gb refurb deal going on.
> 
> I'm a bit confused on what drive to get for 3tb or 4tb that also isn't expensive. I've seen the Toshiba one used but even reading amazon reviews many are Tivo Bolt users who have said it failed within half a year.
> 
> I've seen videos of people using the Seagate backup plus 4gb ($99), but since it' not made for DVR constant read/write, what's the expected lifespan? I'd consider this and hope for a couple years then figure out what to do at that point.
> 
> I don't want to go to 2tb since my roamio i'm replacing I put in a 3tb drive and want at least the same space available.


I think failures may be related to heat. My Toshiba drive has been performing fine. (fingers crossed)
I noticed right away with the new drive my Bolt got hot and stayed hot even in a very well ventilated cabinet.
I picked up a under the laptop cooling fan, it runs off USB so I keep it plugged in to the Bolt itself, no heating problems since..
Good luck..

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## NJChris

Joe01880 said:


> I think failures may be related to heat. My Toshiba drive has been performing fine. (fingers crossed)
> I noticed right away with the new drive my Bolt got hot and stayed hot even in a very well ventilated cabinet.
> I picked up a under the laptop cooling fan, it runs off USB so I keep it plugged in to the Bolt itself, no heating problems since..
> Good luck..


I do think heat has a lot to do with drive life/failures. I did take a risk and got one of the Seagate backup plus 4tb. I replaced the internal fan and have the laptop fan under it and have around 50-51 degrees.


----------



## Tony_T

What was the temp before the upgrades? I'm getting 60°c stock in a fan ventilated cabinet.


----------



## Joe01880

Tony_T said:


> What was the temp before the upgrades? I'm getting 60°c stock in a fan ventilated cabinet.


My cabinet is somewhat open but doesn't have a fan other than the laptop fan the bolt sits on. The temp. was between 70 to 77, after adding the laptop fan, 60, sometimes below.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## jlb

I think with my stock drive and the bolt in the open behind my TV my temp is in the upper 50s at most. So I think I will be fine when I upgrade. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jlb

So when I posted about confusion I was having with looking at the drive on WD's website, I was on my iphone and I think the lack of screen real estate (compared to my 27" monitor) added to the confusion. Looking at their website on the monitor clarifies it even more and makes it easer to understand which drive/capacity/cache is which.....


----------



## jlb

Joe01880 said:


> I think failures may be related to heat. My Toshiba drive has been performing fine. (fingers crossed)
> I noticed right away with the new drive my Bolt got hot and stayed hot even in a very well ventilated cabinet.
> I picked up a under the laptop cooling fan, it runs off USB so I keep it plugged in to the Bolt itself, no heating problems since..
> Good luck..
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Question.... does the fan you got add a lot of noise?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Joe01880

jlb said:


> Question.... does the fan you got add a lot of noise?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## jlb

Joe01880 said:


> No
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Cool. No pun intended. I'm in the 50s with the stick drive and in the open. May look at one of the fans anyways.

Do u have a link for the one you have?


----------



## jlb

So I just ordered my NPVZ 2TB drive. It's the right time given the end of most TV seasons and all. And while it was a little more, I went with ordering direct from WD. I've ordered a Torx set too from Amazon. I should be all set to upgrade in about a week....


----------



## jlb

In regards to possibly different torx screwdriver sizes, I ended up ordering this set from Amazon. Between these and the two screwdrivers I have laying around, I should be ok, hopefully.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BYCPMR5/


----------



## jlb

I have one question before I do my upgrade (prob next weekend or the next after that)....

I downgraded from Hydra to the prior experience/software. Would it be correct to assume that when I toss the new HD it, it too will stay on the prior experience? I'm pretty sure this is a yes, but wanted to confirm.

Thanks!


----------



## JoeKustra

jlb said:


> I have one question before I do my upgrade (prob next weekend or the next after that)....
> I downgraded from Hydra to the prior experience/software. Would it be correct to assume that when I toss the new HD it, it too will stay on the prior experience? I'm pretty sure this is a yes, but wanted to confirm.
> Thanks!


A new hard drive will be treated as a new TiVo. Try this: When asked to choose a country, hit the Info button. That tells you the current software. Then if you are asked for a country again, that's because you are getting the Hydra upgrade. When that is done you can downgrade.


----------



## LVKeith

jlb said:


> In regards to possibly different torx screwdriver sizes, I ended up ordering this set from Amazon. Between these and the two screwdrivers I have laying around, I should be ok, hopefully.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BYCPMR5/


That set should work out fine for you. With my bolt Vox I did not have anything larger than a T-8 (no T-10 at the back by HDMI). Screws inside the case were different sizes all smaller. Please post how your install goes. I opened the case just to make sure that would be no problem for me, but I have not yet ordered the WD 2tb hard drive as my warranty won't expire until next week.


----------



## HerronScott

jlb said:


> In regards to possibly different torx screwdriver sizes, I ended up ordering this set from Amazon. Between these and the two screwdrivers I have laying around, I should be ok, hopefully.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BYCPMR5/


I like this kit as lots of bits with a nice case and usually available at the local Walmart (currently $6.97 but I think the normal price is $9.99).

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hyper-To...-Precision-Screwdriver-Set-with-Case/17190613

Scott


----------



## jlb

JoeKustra said:


> A new hard drive will be treated as a new TiVo. Try this: When asked to choose a country, hit the Info button. That tells you the current software. Then if you are asked for a country again, that's because you are getting the Hydra upgrade. When that is done you can downgrade.


Good idea, thanks!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Joe01880

jlb said:


> Cool. No pun intended. I'm in the 50s with the stick drive and in the open. May look at one of the fans anyways.
> 
> Do u have a link for the one you have?


The one I use was the one I used with my laptop. Have no idea who makes it. It plugs in to a USB port for power so I don't imagine it's very strong, it gets the job done is all that matters to me. I'm sure I picked it up at a dollar store or bargan bin someplace..
Sorry it took so long to respond..

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## jlb

Joe01880 said:


> The one I use was the one I used with my laptop. Have no idea who makes it. It plugs in to a USB port for power so I don't imagine it's very strong, it gets the job done is all that matters to me. I'm sure I picked it up at a dollar store or bargan bin someplace..
> Sorry it took so long to respond..
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Oh gosh no worries. I have one on amazon that's a few bucks more prob and I might grab while I'm on a free amazon prime trial

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jlb

So I’m thinking of doing my NPVZ 2tb upgrade tonight. It’s a good time as I don’t mind bastardizing the programs that are on the current and so I won’t need to xfer anything first. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jlb

JoeKustra said:


> A new hard drive will be treated as a new TiVo. Try this: When asked to choose a country, hit the Info button. That tells you the current software. Then if you are asked for a country again, that's because you are getting the Hydra upgrade. When that is done you can downgrade.


I forgot to hit the info button when I was doing GS. But my Bolt seems to be staying on the downgrades software. It did initial connection to get one day of info. I'm now in the process of forcing a connection for full data. So far no sign of hydra upgrades. Will report note after cooking my omelettes! 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jlb

And of course as careful as I was and with all the tools and spudgers and all, I STILL broke clips but what can you do. I now have my 317 hours back!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jlb

I did also have to have Comcast re-pair to get showtime showing again.


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## JoeKustra

jlb said:


> I did also have to have Comcast re-pair to get showtime showing again.


To be expected. Your hardware (equipment number) changed. Most cable feeds use that and it affects copy protection.


----------



## jlb

JoeKustra said:


> To be expected. Your hardware (equipment number) changed. Most cable feeds use that and it affects copy protection.


Yeah. Agreed. Now just to rebuild the SP/OP list. Yeah, I could have done KMTTG but I didn't bother considering most of my passes are in repeat mode for the summer now.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jlb

Other quick notes from my upgrade on my Bolt with the 2TB NPVZ drive:

- I find it quieter than the stock 500gb. Maybe just a tad. 
- Overall process to upgrade and get the bolt open wasn't too bad (minus a few broken clips (oh well) and after I realized one of the HD screws goes back in AFTER putting the one part of the cover back on
- The people in this forum ROCK!!!

Thanks to EVERYONE who contributed to this thread, others related to it, and the forum in general. I love that we are so good with helping each other out!

ETA: I thought there was a “channel” underneath the HD to route the WiFi cable. I had to just lay on top of the HD. The sticky clips came off with no sticky left. 

I also found the (I think) remote finder chip or what ever it is, flipped out when I opened the case. Had to carefully place that back in.


----------



## aaronwt

jlb said:


> Other quick notes from my upgrade on my Bolt with the 2TB NPVZ drive:
> 
> - I find it quieter than the stock 500gb. Maybe just a tad.
> - Overall process to upgrade and get the bolt open wasn't too bad (minus a few broken clips (oh well) and after I realized one of the HD screws goes back in AFTER putting the one part of the cover back on
> - The people in this forum ROCK!!!
> 
> Thanks to EVERYONE who contributed to this thread, others related to it, and the forum in general. I love that we are so good with helping each other out!
> 
> ETA: I thought there was a "channel" underneath the HD to route the WiFi cable. I had to just lay on top of the HD. The sticky clips came off with no sticky left.
> 
> I also found the (I think) remote finder chip or what ever it is, flipped out when I opened the case. Had to carefully place that back in.


There is a channel under the hard drive to run the wire. But only with newer Bolts. I know the Bolts I had from a 2015 manufacture date did not have them. But the Bolts I got last year, from the Series 3 lifetime transfer deal, did have the channel.

Before I got the Bolts last year, I used Command Strips to replace the original sticky that kept the wire on top of the hard drive. The Command Strips worked great to replace it.


----------



## Tony_T

jlb said:


> ETA: I thought there was a "channel" underneath the HD to route the WiFi cable. I had to just lay on top of the HD. The sticky clips came off with no sticky left.


I also used Command Strips https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0014CQGW4?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf


----------



## jlb

Tony_T said:


> These work well:
> Command Refill Strips, Medium, White, 9-Strips https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0014CQGW4?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf


Thanks. Though at this point I don't know if I want to open up the case again just to put those in. The wire seemed like it would stay put.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tony_T

I wouldn't open just for the Command Strips, but they're good to keep on hand.


----------



## Joe01880

Tony_T said:


> I also used Command Strips https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0014CQGW4?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf


A small piece of Black electrical tape worked well for me. It's not like the TiVo is going to be tossed around or anything..

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## jlb

Joe01880 said:


> A small piece of Black electrical tape worked well for me. It's not like the TiVo is going to be tossed around or anything..
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Oh I wish I had thought of that when I opened up to do the upgrade. But alas, no point opening again now. But your idea is duly noted. Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## porkenstein

I am so surprised that they went with 2.5" hds. I always thought they wouldn't hold up under constant use but apparently Tivo thinks they will.


----------



## fis

porkenstein said:


> I am so surprised that they went with 2.5" hds. I always thought they wouldn't hold up under constant use but apparently Tivo thinks they will.


Another reason I felt good going with the 3.5" WD Red. It's only been 8 months, but it's already lasted longer than the 2.5" Toshiba did.


----------



## Joe01880

fis said:


> Another reason I felt good going with the 3.5" WD Red. It's only been 8 months, but it's already lasted longer than the 2.5" Toshiba did.


I've been running the Toshiba 3TB 2.5" drive for almost 2 years without an issue. 
IMO the trick is keeping them cool along with the rest of the system.
I use an under the laptop cooling fan that operates off of USB port power and plug it in to the TiVo itself.
I got my fingers crossed I don't jinx myself tho...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## leiff

Joe01880 said:


> I've been running the Toshiba 3TB 2.5" drive for almost 2 years without an issue.
> IMO the trick is keeping them cool along with the rest of the system.
> I use an under the laptop cooling fan that operates off of USB port power and plug it in to the TiVo itself.
> I got my fingers crossed I don't jinx myself tho...
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


 So your bolt sits on top of this pad you mentioned? Happen to have a link for such a product? I'm expecting my Vox in the mail today


----------



## leiff

I just ordered WD20NPVZ for my new vox. I paid $100 new From 3rd party seller "hardrive ", on Amazon which I'm sure has no warranty. seller only had 37 feedback but I got same day shipping notification. Unfortunately it's being delivered USPS. What test should I put this drive through? thx!


----------



## Joe01880

leiff said:


> So your bolt sits on top of this pad you mentioned? Happen to have a link for such a product? I'm expecting my Vox in the mail today


Nope, Google Laptop cooling fan. I'm sure BB, Staples and Amazon have a plethora of them to choose from..

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Tivogre

I'm finally taking the plunge on an 8TB External Drive for the Bolt + !!!

Got the recommended Rosewill RX304-APU-35B enclosure and installed an 8TB WD Drive shucked from an easystore ($169 at Best Buy last week).










First step was to cut out a small section of the air intake vent to allow a SATA extension cable (1 male end and 1 female end) to exit the rear of the case:










Then, I found a path to run a SATA cable out of the Bolt case, and secured the cable with wire ties to the fan mount screw:










Finally, drilled two 3/8" holes and carefully connected then with a Dremel (back of the Bolt case, just to the right of the metal plate):










Extension cable from drive enclosure mated to SATA cable from the Bolt:










Up and running with 1279HD hours.

Currently applying updates (probably Hydra)...


----------



## porkenstein

What did you have to do to get the Bolt to recognize that size drive?


----------



## Tivogre

porkenstein said:


> What did you have to do to get the Bolt to recognize that size drive?


I used the MFS Reformatter (MFSR) tool from right here in the forum.


----------



## Joe39565

Found this enclosure at Amazon for $35.99 with free shipping and wondering about the slightly different model number? RX304-APU3-35B vs RX304-APU-35B

https://www.amazon.com/Enclosure-Al...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00N1Q2M6A


----------



## Tivogre

This is the one I used:

Hard Drive Enclosure 3.5 Inch SATA III to USB 3.0 or eSATA. Aluminum Body & LED Disp... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00N1Q2M6A/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_c_api_X-izBb9124544


----------



## Tivogre

With these cables:

StarTech.com 0.3m SATA Extension Cable (SATAEXT30CM) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008635ATO/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_c_api_najzBb460BF44

CableMod ModMesh Right Angle SATA 3... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079DD7WNL?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf


----------



## darklyte

Mush said:


> WD Model WD20NPVZ vs WD20SPZX
> It seems to me this newer drive (WD20SPZX) is much cheaper with more cache, and is thinner.
> 
> Is this a matter of longevity, an NAS drive vs a piece of crap?
> 
> So I've since seen the newnewer er cheaper drive is SMR.
> It seems to reason a PMR drive is better suited to the throughput of watching recorded HD content while recording a couple of tuners of HD content.


Sorry if I missed this but are there any strong feelings/reasons on why the newer, cheaper and more available *WD20SPZX *is inferior to the older model (WD20NPVZ)?

Seems the newer model is sold by everyone including Amazon for cheaper and the only reasonable options for the old one are on eBay.

For the older model, only WD is selling them directly and with tax ($150) its almost double the price. Is it just TiVo owners wanting the more familiar model driving up that price or am I missing something important?


----------



## mandms7

darklyte said:


> Sorry if I missed this but are there any strong feelings/reasons on why the newer, cheaper and more available *WD20SPZX *is inferior to the older model (WD20NPVZ)?
> 
> Seems the newer model is sold by everyone including Amazon for cheaper and the only reasonable options for the old one are on eBay.
> 
> For the older model, only WD is selling them directly and with tax ($150) its almost double the price. Is it just TiVo owners wanting the more familiar model driving up that price or am I missing something important?


Would like to know this too.


----------



## TivoJD

Amazon has the WD20NPVZ for $99.50 new with free shipping from seller Hardrive, 8 left in stock.

https://www.amazon.com/Internal-inc...=UTF8&qid=1533409016&sr=8-2&keywords=WD20NPVZ


----------



## leiff

TivoJD said:


> Amazon has the WD20NPVZ for $99.50 new with free shipping from seller Hardrive, 8 left in stock.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Internal-inc...=UTF8&qid=1533409016&sr=8-2&keywords=WD20NPVZ


 That's where I bought mine from came priority USPS. shipped same day I bought it. it came In this small package. I I've included photograph. Seem to be wrapped pretty good inside with bubble wrap inside. I don't know if you guys consider that good or not. I noticed the seller only had 38 feedback from Amazon and its 3rd party seller so no warranty. No tax in California and I think I got it very quick after ordering it also. I just completed extended test with Western Digital data lifeguard diagnostics on the drive. Took 10 hours hooked up to a usB3 to sata adapter. I'm putting it in my tivo Vox now


----------



## darklyte

Thanks good info. 
The WD20SPZX (newer model) is $65 if you are ok to go with 3rd party seller and no warranty on eBay similar to that seller on Amazon.

I hate spending 50% more for the other older drive unless there’s a reason??


----------



## Luke M

darklyte said:


> Thanks good info.
> The WD20SPZX (newer model) is $65 if you are ok to go with 3rd party seller and no warranty on eBay similar to that seller on Amazon.
> 
> I hate spending 50% more for the other older drive unless there's a reason??


The new drive is shingled. Not recommended for DVRs.


----------



## leiff

2 tb drive replacement went fine.
now I regret not getting the 6 tuner model with the 3TB though. Extra 2 tuners would have been handy


----------



## Tony_T

In 10 months I've only had a few conflicts with 4 tuners, and since many shows repeat the same night, I've never missed a recording.


----------



## Anotherpyr

Luke M said:


> The new drive is shingled. Not recommended for DVRs.


In case you're wondering what is meant by "shingled" Shingled magnetic recording - Wikipedia


----------



## darklyte

Thank you for that, I was not familiar with Shingled drives (SMR)!

Cool to learn something new from the good folks here.

I've been looking at WD's tech specs for the drive but don't see any mention of Shingled/SMR and it does not look like there is any easy way to identify or figure out when you are looking at an SMR vs. a Perpendicular Magnetic Recording (PMR) drive.

As a reminder for folks looking for the WD drive, its available on eBay from sellers with strong feedback in the $80-$90 range, free shipping and no tax.

WD20NPVZ | eBay


----------



## rdrrepair

TivoJD said:


> Amazon has the WD20NPVZ for $99.50 new with free shipping from seller Hardrive, 8 left in stock.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Internal-inc...=UTF8&qid=1533409016&sr=8-2&keywords=WD20NPVZ


Thank You! I got one too. 3 left in stock. Total cost, to me, $89.99 with free shipping.


----------



## dilsingh

Can the TIVO Bolt Vox accommodate a 12.5 mm high HDD or only 9.5 mm.
I think there is an external SATA option? -- does that require TIVIO to enable before being able to use it?


----------



## HerronScott

dilsingh said:


> Can the TIVO Bolt Vox accommodate a 12.5 mm high HDD or only 9.5 mm.
> I think there is an external SATA option? -- does that require TIVIO to enable before being able to use it


You can use a 15mm drive (WD20npvz for example). On my older Bolt where the wireless cable went above the drive, I had to slightly relocate the plastic clips that are stuck to the drive to hold the cable although someone mentioned that on the newer Bolts that there is a channel for this cable below the drive now.

Scott


----------



## ncbill

so what's the current recommended 3TB (or 4TB that can auto-format to 3TB) drive?

or are 3TB/4TB still too flaky so I should buy the 2TB drive listed above?


----------



## dilsingh

The WD 4 TB SATA drive has been shipping for a while, but some models may be SMR only. These are taller( 12.5 mm) than the standard 9.5 mm, but have a SATA 3 interface like most other SATA drives, so the electrical interface should not be a problem if they fit mechanically.
An external SATA drive would be a great option if possible as it should not require the box to be opened and either 2.5 or 3.5 drives could be used(with a power brick).
Is an external SATA drive possible with the Bolt VOX? Does it require anything to be purchased from TIVO to enable this feature as has been on some older TIVOs?


----------



## Tivogre

External drives will NOT work unless you run a cable directly from the on-board (internal) SATA port to the drive SATA port.


----------



## dilsingh

Thaks Tivogre.
Looks like I will have to open the case when the warranty(90 days!) expires.
I have a unit with just 500 TB HDD.


----------



## Tivogre

dilsingh said:


> Thaks Tivogre.
> Looks like I will have to open the case when the warranty(90 days!) expires.
> I have a unit with just 500 TB HDD.


See my posts above for 3.5" 8TB upgrade.


----------



## rgr

Tivogre said:


> See my posts above for 3.5" 8TB upgrade.


I'm probably going to duplicate your upgrade once the warranty on the 500gb bolt is up. Curious what impact it had on internal temp for the bolt for you.


----------



## dilsingh

I know quite a bit about Hard Disk Drives(profession), but not much about TIVO or Linux.
Can I transfer some of my programs from TIVO2 to the TiVO Bolt?


----------



## HerronScott

dilsingh said:


> I know quite a bit about Hard Disk Drives(profession), but not much about TIVO or Linux.
> Can I transfer some of my programs from TIVO2 to the TiVO Bolt?


You mean an S2 TiVo? Unless you download the Bolt to gen3 UI (where you should be able to transfer any non-copy-protected content locally), you'll need to download the shows to a PC and then stream them back to the Bolt with Hydra.

Scott


----------



## Joe39565

Tivogre said:


> See my posts above for 3.5" 8TB upgrade.


Searched through a bunch of prior posts and all I found was a mention of a WD easystore 8TB that you purchased from Best Buy and shucked and that it had a "red" drive.

Wondering if the 4TB and 8TB models use the same "red" drives?
4TB WDBCKA0040HBK-NESN Best Buy $89.99
8TB WDBCKA0080HBK-NESN Best Buy $189.99

Not having purchased one yet, have no idea on any of those drives specs.


----------



## Joe39565

Found the following on another forum: "In case anybody is curious about the 4TB model: I recently purchased two of the 4TB model EasyStores (model #WDBCKA0040HBK-NESN from Best Buy - $89.99) and shucked them. They contained a white label drive, model # WD40EMRX, 64MB cache."

So; now I'm really wondering if buying one of these is the correct way to go? If you wind up with a "white" label hard drive?


----------



## rfc19061

so...my Bolt+ drive died but was out of warranty. I picked up the WD20NPVZ as a replacement. Installed, powered up & went through setup. Everything fine. Then I thought I'd swap the new WD 2TB drive into my new Bolt VOX to replace the 500g since we now use that box as the primary. When I installed the 2TB in the VOX unit, it would not finish booting. Would having gone through setup on the + unit cause the problem?


----------



## dilsingh

So, I have a TIVO Bolt VOX. It has a SATA port at the back.
Can I just attach a SATA HDD to it or does this port needs fees to be paid before it can be "enabled" ?
Of course, I will need a SATA box since I have to supply power to it as well as connect with a SATA data cable.

Another unrelated question is that I have HBO through Xfinity, but looks like that HBO is not supported in the App. Has anyone found a way around that ?
I am obviously being charged for HBO through subscription.


----------



## shwru980r

dilsingh said:


> So, I have a TIVO Bolt VOX. It has a SATA port at the back.
> Can I just attach a SATA HDD to it or does this port needs fees to be paid before it can be "enabled" ?
> Of course, I will need a SATA box since I have to supply power to it as well as connect with a SATA data cable.


No, it's an esata port not a sata port and has proprietary firmware that only accepts very few specific western digital external drives to extend the capacity of the internal drive.


----------



## shwru980r

rfc19061 said:


> so...my Bolt+ drive died but was out of warranty. I picked up the WD20NPVZ as a replacement. Installed, powered up & went through setup. Everything fine. Then I thought I'd swap the new WD 2TB drive into my new Bolt VOX to replace the 500g since we now use that box as the primary. When I installed the 2TB in the VOX unit, it would not finish booting. Would having gone through setup on the + unit cause the problem?


I think the bolt vox should have reformatted the 2tb drive and used it. Might be something wrong with the drive. You could hook the drive up to a PC and run the western digital data lifeguard program to find errors. If there aren't any errors, I would run the option that writes zeros to the entire drive and then try it in the bolt vox again.


----------



## Joe39565

Has anyone recently purchased an 8TB Western Digital EasyStore WDBCKA0080HBK-NESN from Best Buy or elsewhere and confirm that it does indeed have a "red" and not "white" label hard drive?


----------



## rfc19061

dilsingh said:


> Another unrelated question is that I have HBO through Xfinity, but looks like that HBO is not supported in the App. Has anyone found a way around that ?
> I am obviously being charged for HBO through subscription.


I believe the app is actually for HBO GO? I believe you can sign into that with your Xfinity account.


----------



## rfc19061

shwru980r said:


> I think the bolt vox should have reformatted the 2tb drive and used it. Might be something wrong with the drive. You could hook the drive up to a PC and run the western digital data lifeguard program to find errors. If there aren't any errors, I would run the option that writes zeros to the entire drive and then try it in the bolt vox again.


Thanks. That was my next step, but wanted to see if I was missing something.


----------



## leiff

rfc19061 said:


> so...my Bolt+ drive died but was out of warranty. I picked up the WD20NPVZ as a replacement. Installed, powered up & went through setup. Everything fine. Then I thought I'd swap the new WD 2TB drive into my new Bolt VOX to replace the 500g since we now use that box as the primary. When I installed the 2TB in the VOX unit, it would not finish booting. Would having gone through setup on the + unit cause the problem?


 How old was your bolt when the hard drive failed? Did you have any other cooling methods you were using? what is your odt?


----------



## rfc19061

leiff said:


> How old was your bolt when the hard drive failed? Did you have any other cooling methods you were using? what is your odt?


It was only about 14 months or so. No additional cooling, but plenty of space around the unit


----------



## Joe39565

Found most of the following from a post at the Best Buy website for anyone interested.

Western Digital Easystore 8TB WDBCKA0080HBK

Model Number Ends In Potential Drive Models

NESN WD80EFZX Red Label 128MB Cache older Made in China
WD80EFAX Red Label 256MB Cache older Made in Thailand
* WD80EMAZ White Label 256MB Cache Made in Thailand (newest packaged Easyshares)
WD80EMZZ (?? A few reports of this drive lately, looking for info on them)

NEBB WD80EMAZ

A few people posted that they were shucking "red" labeled drives from these units, but some have reported finding "white" labeled drives.

I'm guessing that as long as you shuck a 256MB made in Thailand drive whether it be "red" or "white" it's fine, but with the "white" one you may have to do an additional minor "hack" in order to get it to work.

3.3v pin problem that will prevent the drive from booting, but that can easily be solved with some tape.


----------



## HerronScott

dilsingh said:


> Another unrelated question is that I have HBO through Xfinity, but looks like that HBO is not supported in the App. Has anyone found a way around that ?
> I am obviously being charged for HBO through subscription.


What app are you talking about? Comcast does not support signing in on the HBO Go app on TiVo (same is true for some other devices). You should be able to view HBO through the regular channels and Xfinity On Demand. The TiVo App on mobile devices also supports HBO.

Scott


----------



## dilsingh

HerronScott said:


> What app are you talking about? Comcast does not support signing in on the HBO Go app on TiVo (same is true for some other devices). You should be able to view HBO through the regular channels and Xfinity On Demand. The TiVo App on mobile devices also supports HBO.
> 
> Scott


I can view HBO on the TV connected to the TIVO sure, but in the past I could also stream it to the TV downstairs through the internet.

Scott, I have 55 inch Samsung TV with SMART HUB. It used to have an HBOGO app, which is no longer there in the Samsung App store. I really do not want to see HBO on small screens or upstairs. Seems now the choice is to get an Apple TV or Chrome cast and connect it to the TV and use the app for those devices. All I did was go from a Motorola Cable Box to a TIVO with a cable card. Is there a MAC based HBOGO that runs on a MacPro which can be connected to a TV?

Do all WD RED drives work on the TIVO eSATA port ? -- any specific mode of WD drive that I can try to get ?


----------



## HerronScott

dilsingh said:


> Scott, I have 55 inch Samsung TV with SMART HUB. It used to have an HBOGO app, which is no longer there in the Samsung App store. I really do not want to see HBO on small screens or upstairs. Seems now the choice is to get an Apple TV or Chrome cast and connect it to the TV and use the app for those devices. All I did was go from a Motorola Cable Box to a TIVO with a cable card. Is there a MAC based HBOGO that runs on a MacPro which can be connected to a TV


If it's missing from your Samsung TV that is as you say unrelated to the TiVo and sounds like it was removed at some point probably due to an upgrade that was not compatible with your TV.

Which Samsung Smart TVs is HBO GO available on?

You can buy a TiVo Mini for the second TV and watch the content from your TiVo including HBO recordings, live TV and through the Xfinity On Demand (but not in the HBO Go app on the TiVo as Comcast doesn't support that).



dilsingh said:


> Do all WD RED drives work on the TIVO eSATA port ? -- any specific mode of WD drive that I can try to get ?


No there is a specific WD external drive that was approved for use which is no longer made (The Western Digital My Book AV DVR Expander is available in a 1 TB size). If you want to add space, you need to upgrade the internal drive.

Scott


----------



## dilsingh

HerronScott said:


> If it's missing from your Samsung TV that is as you say unrelated to the TiVo and sounds like it was removed at some point probably due to an upgrade that was not compatible with your TV.
> 
> Which Samsung Smart TVs is HBO GO available on?
> 
> You can buy a TiVo Mini for the second TV and watch the content from your TiVo including HBO recordings, live TV and through the Xfinity On Demand (but not in the HBO Go app on the TiVo as Comcast doesn't support that).
> 
> No there is a specific WD external drive that was approved for use which is no longer made (The Western Digital My Book AV DVR Expander is available in a 1 TB size). If you want to add space, you need to upgrade the internal drive.
> 
> Scott


Thanks Scott.
Here is s a link to the TIVO box that I have:
TiVo BOLT VOX

On the second page, it shows one of the Apps as HBOGO. Since my TIVO is connected to this TV, there is no point in streaming to it other than for exploration. Can this app be used to stream to a second TV somehow?

On the Hard Disk Drive part, I work in the company that produces these RED drives, but I am not sure if a specific HDD drive model can be used on the external (eSATA) port or if it needs some customization before the TIVO will recognize it.
The idea of a mini TIVO is interesting, but a chromecast is much cheaper and not tied to whatever TIVO can do.
Anyway, I am looking for ideas, so please forgive the random thoughts. I am hoping that we all learn together.


----------



## ggieseke

dilsingh said:


> On the Hard Disk Drive part, I work in the company that produces these RED drives, but I am not sure if a specific HDD drive model can be used on the external (eSATA) port or if it needs some customization before the TIVO will recognize it.


Won't work under normal circumstances. There is a very short list of "Green AV" whitelisted drives, and none of them are over 1TB or made anymore.

Technically you can use almost any any drive, but you have to "marry" it to the internal drive by hooking both of them up to a PC and using MFSTools. The result is a TiVo that will die if even the tiniest hiccup occurs so you're better off just instaling a larger internal drive.


----------



## dilsingh

ggieseke said:


> Won't work under normal circumstances. There is a very short list of "Green AV" whitelisted drives, and none of them are over 1TB or made anymore.
> 
> Technically you can use almost any any drive, but you have to "marry" it to the internal drive by hooking both of them up to a PC and using MFSTools. The result is a TiVo that will die if even the tiniest hiccup occurs so you're better off just instaling a larger internal drive.


Thanks.
I guess I have to open the box once it's out of warranty.
This box has two USB2.0 ports as well. What is the intended purpose of these? -- hopefully, it's more than just to charge up devices?

Can I use a CoAX splitter(combiner) to combine the cable and Off the air antenna inputs to feed to the coax input of the TIVO?


----------



## HerronScott

rfc19061 said:


> believe the app is actually for HBO GO? I believe you can sign into that with your Xfinity account.


Actually Comcast doesn't allow it on TiVo's (although you can on your PC and some other streaming devices).

Scott


----------



## HerronScott

dilsingh said:


> On the second page, it shows one of the Apps as HBOGO. Since my TIVO is connected to this TV, there is no point in streaming to it other than for exploration. Can this app be used to stream to a second TV somehow?





dilsingh said:


> I can view HBO on the TV connected to the TIVO sure, but in the past I could also stream it to the TV downstairs through the internet.


No it can't and as I mentioned above Comcast doesn't allow you to sign into HBO Go with the TiVo app (other cable companies do). I thought you were trying to get to HBO on a second TV (one downstairs?) based on your other post.



dilsingh said:


> The idea of a mini TIVO is interesting, but a chromecast is much cheaper and not tied to whatever TIVO can do.


If you really have 2 TV's, it gets your regular TV access on the second TV without any kind of cable box or monthly charges paid to Comcast.

Scott


----------



## dilsingh

Thanks, Scott. Yes, I have two TVs, one upstairs connected to the TVIO box, because the cable only goes upstairs. The second is downstairs and has WIFI and Ethernet internet capability, but no HBOGO app, however, I have Netflix and HULU on it. I guess the TIVO Mini Box would be the most convenient way to get HBO on the TV downstairs but its quite costly compared to things Like Chromecast or even Apple TV. I understand that the TIVO content will not be streamed with these devices, but I am OK with that.

..still trying to understand why there are two USB ports on this unit and what they offer.


----------



## HerronScott

dilsingh said:


> ..still trying to understand why there are two USB ports on this unit and what they offer.


Connections for USB dongles for Bluetooth and RF remotes in some cases and connections for Tuning Adapters where SDV is deployed.

Scott


----------



## Bob Epstein

Is there a 1tb version of the WD20NPVZ drive? I'd like to upgrade a recently purchased 500GB Bolt VOX, and I really don't need more than 1tb. The prices on the 2tb and 3tb are just more than I want to spend right now. I know there are eBay sellers with lower prices, but I've had problems using eBay in the past, and would like to avoid that option.

I'll go with the 2tb if it ends up being the best choice. Just looking to save a few bucks, if possible. Thank you, in advance, for any thoughts.


----------



## HerronScott

Bob Epstein said:


> Is there a 1tb version of the WD20NPVZ drive? I'd like to upgrade a recently purchased 500GB Bolt VOX


Has anyone posted here what drive TiVo is using in their 1TB Bolt?

Scott


----------



## rgr

Bob Epstein said:


> Is there a 1tb version of the WD20NPVZ drive?





HerronScott said:


> Has anyone posted here what drive TiVo is using in their 1TB Bolt?
> Scott


Post #60 in this thread says the Bolt 1TB uses the WD10NPVZ.
(never mind, same post says he's not sure about that and I can't find a WD10NPVZ anywhere.)


----------



## Bob Epstein

rgr said:


> Post #60 in this thread says the Bolt 1TB uses the WD10NPVZ.
> (never mind, same post says he's not sure about that and I can't find a WD10NPVZ anywhere.)


Thank you both for taking the time to reply. I'll continue to see if I can find out any more information.


----------



## HerronScott

rgr said:


> Post #60 in this thread says the Bolt 1TB uses the WD10NPVZ.
> (never mind, same post says he's not sure about that and I can't find a WD10NPVZ anywhere.)


Here are the 2.5" ones that WD lists on their website for "mobile" storage including the 2TB WD20NPVZ (note they don't list the 3TB model that TiVo uses.










Scott


----------



## Luke M

HerronScott said:


> Has anyone posted here what drive TiVo is using in their 1TB Bolt?


It's probably still the WD10JUCT ("AV" drive).


----------



## cherry ghost

HerronScott said:


> Here are the 2.5" ones that WD lists on their website for "mobile" storage including the 2TB WD20NPVZ (note they don't list the 3TB model that TiVo uses.
> 
> View attachment 36184
> 
> 
> Scott


I put a WD10JPVX in my Bolt.


----------



## darklyte

I'm also thinking about putting a 1TB upgrade in my Bolt to at least double capacity given the scarcity and high price of the 2TB.
eBay has 15% off everything today and thought it might be a good day to pick one up.

Is the *WD10JPVX* a safe bet, and not a shingled drive?

Reviews on Newegg say the *WD10SPZX *is a shingled / SMR drive.


----------



## Bob Epstein

cherry ghost said:


> I put a WD10JPVX in my Bolt.


Thanks for the info, Ghost. Can I ask how long you've been using that drive in your Bolt, and how it's been performing for you?


----------



## cherry ghost

Bob Epstein said:


> Thanks for the info, Ghost. Can I ask how long you've been using that drive in your Bolt, and how it's been performing for you?


16 months, no problems


----------



## Luke M

darklyte said:


> I'm also thinking about putting a 1TB upgrade in my Bolt to at least double capacity given the scarcity and high price of the 2TB.
> eBay has 15% off everything today and thought it might be a good day to pick one up.
> 
> Is the *WD10JPVX* a safe bet, and not a shingled drive?
> 
> Reviews on Newegg say the *WD10SPZX *is a shingled / SMR drive.


Yes I believe that's correct.


----------



## LarryAtHome

I have been using the WD10JFCX for about 6 months now with no issues. I let the TiVo go through the drive setup and guided setup. I have the older interface. (not hydra) I did not try to save any recordings or use the MSF tools. I just let TiVo do it all itself. The only thing I did do while it was open (not related to the hard disk) was to put a 100uF 25V capacitor across the fan power connector to eliminate the whine from the fan circuitry. I don't know if there are any long term effects to this, but for now it has eliminated the whine for me. The WD10JFCX and the WD10JUCT look to be the same drive with different firmware on them and are what some here recommend. One is specialized for a NAS and the other for audio/video. To me it was more what was available and for what price.


----------



## rcliff

Anyone using a WD20SPZX in a Bolt? It seems like a newer version of WD20NPVZ with a larger cache


----------



## Tony_T

rcliff said:


> Anyone using a WD20SPZX in a Bolt? It seems like a newer version of WD20NPVZ with a larger cache





darklyte said:


> Reviews on Newegg say the *WD10SPZX *is a shingled / SMR drive.


Stay away from shingled drives for the Bolt (or any DVRs)


----------



## Luke M

Tony_T said:


> Stay away from shingled drives for the Bolt (or any DVRs)


I agree with this, but I noticed that Seagate is now selling shingled "Video" branded drives. Go figure.


----------



## pwhfmtx

I just joined the Tivo Bolt+ drive failure club. Activation Date 11/2/2016. No special cooling other than it being on its own shelf. Sourcing a similar 3TB replacement seems very limited and looks like we'll be down for a while, which really is disappointing for the $ spent.


----------



## aaronwt

Luke M said:


> I agree with this, but I noticed that Seagate is now selling shingled "Video" branded drives. Go figure.


Seagate switched to shingled drives awhile ago. Fortunately my 4TB Shingled drive has been working in Bolts for 35 months now. Although the second 4TB drive I had died a year or more ago.
If the 4TB drive dies I'll need to pick up one of these 1TB or 2TB drives for a replacement. Or go the external route. Which would actually be much cheaper for me. SInce I have dozens of 3.5" green drives in storage that I haven't used in years.


----------



## 1985BearsFan

I don't know whether anyone else has noticed, but Western Digital's website no longer lists the 2TB drive with the 8MB cache (WD20NPVZ); it only lists the 128MB cache version (WD20SPZX). Last week, WD's website had the option to be notified when the 8MB cache version was available; however, that notification option is no longer available as of a few days ago. This leads me to question whether WD has discontinued the 8MB cache version. Prices on Amazon seem to have risen slightly over the past week. Not wanting to risk prices increasing any further, I went ahead and found the 3TB WD drive on eBay and placed my order. I'm a little hesitant about purchased a used drive that has been "refurbished" by a seller (not the manufacturer); however, the price was low enough that I decided to take the risk. As soon as the drive arrives, I'm going to run some diagnostics on it and then, if it seems in good shape, I'll swap it for the stock 500GB drive on the refurbished BOLT that I picked up during the recent sale.


----------



## Tony_T

Wow, price for the WD20NPVZ on Amazon has risen ~50% (to $145 $150) in the last 6 8 mo.
(Looks like there are is one new/sealed on eBay for $100 $120 (there are others, just search for WD20NPVZ)

I may pick picked up a spare drive.


----------



## pwhfmtx

pwhfmtx said:


> I just joined the Tivo Bolt+ drive failure club. Activation Date 11/2/2016. No special cooling other than it being on its own shelf. Sourcing a similar 3TB replacement seems very limited and looks like we'll be down for a while, which really is disappointing for the $ spent.


I figured out my Root Cause was the fan failing. Which likely created excessive heat for the drive. I purchased the external 3.5" Red Drive connected SATA components, which is currently running well. Will replace that fan now too. It is a PAIN to re-setup everything and figure out what was lost.


----------



## tommage1

aaronwt said:


> Seagate switched to shingled drives awhile ago. Fortunately my 4TB Shingled drive has been working in Bolts for 35 months now. Although the second 4TB drive I had died a year or more ago.
> If the 4TB drive dies I'll need to pick up one of these 1TB or 2TB drives for a replacement. Or go the external route. Which would actually be much cheaper for me. SInce I have dozens of 3.5" green drives in storage that I haven't used in years.


I seem to remember you posting about those Seagates, were you the person that had the firmware 0001 versions? Have you seen the WD 4TB WD40NPZZ? There is a thread about it here. I wonder where the seller gets them, maybe some external model? Some WD 4TB 2.5 models that come in enclosures do not have a SATA connection on the drive at all, USB is on the board. I wonder if anyone was capable of changing the board to one with a SATA connection?

I am probably going to try the external route with a helium WD 8TB red (someone informed me WD is selling some air instead of helium WD reds now, some of those come in Elements 8TB externals from what I see, I guess they are rebranded HGST?) Going to get one of those SATA cable extenders to hook up to the Bolt motherboard directly (SATA male on one end, goes to SATA port on the Bolt motherboard, SATA female on the other, will come out of the case and can hookup the external to it). Use a couple shims so the cable does not get pinched, would prefer not cutting the Bolt case. Will put the 8TB in an external case and use the case for power. Will use a standard SATA cable connected to the drive in the case, the other end will connect to the female end of the SATA extender cable coming from the Bolt. This way seems good to me since should be easy to disconnect the drive from the Bolt since the enclosure and the Bolt will each have their own cable.


----------



## Luke M

tommage1 said:


> I am probably going to try the external route with a helium WD 8TB red (someone informed me WD is selling some air instead of helium WD reds now, some of those come in Elements 8TB externals from what I see, I guess they are rebranded HGST?)


You know your attached picture is the new air version, right? Helium drives don't have holes.


----------



## tommage1

Luke M said:


> You know your attached picture is the new air version, right? Helium drives don't have holes.


Yes, that is why I posted it. I did not know about the air versions until someone mentioned it (might have been you?). Since the model number is the same as the heliums I think I thought I would post the picture for informational purposes, not everyone knows about the air version. People who run smart tests on externals they buy might be getting the air versions and they would not know it unless they check the model number AFTER the dash. As far as I can tell so far the Easy Store and My Books still have the helium versions (though that might change), the Elements has the air version.


----------



## tommage1

The new packaging on the Easy Stores, with the monitor attached to the drive, I wonder if some of those have the air drive? Best Buy is selling some at ebay for $160. However they do NOT show a picture of the box/packaging. Perhaps because they have both style packaging in stock, you could get either one? I ordered one but not from Best Buy, the seller's picture was of the old style packaging so I'm pretty sure I will be getting a helium.


----------



## Lrscpa

Seems that the 2.5" 3TB drive choices suggested here are limited. And expensive. Could someone tell me if I purchase an external drive, crack it open and use the bare drive, will that work? And which external drives should I chose/avoid.

Thanks!


----------



## Tony_T

I've read here of people doing that.
Do a search here for "external drive" (and one just a few posts back in this thread)


----------



## tommage1

tommage1 said:


> The new packaging on the Easy Stores, with the monitor attached to the drive, I wonder if some of those have the air drive? Best Buy is selling some at ebay for $160. However they do NOT show a picture of the box/packaging. Perhaps because they have both style packaging in stock, you could get either one? I ordered one but not from Best Buy, the seller's picture was of the old style packaging so I'm pretty sure I will be getting a helium.


I have found there is still only one packaging for the Easy Store, I was checking ebay, some people used picture of the front of the box for their auction (picture of the drive), some used the back of the box (picture of the monitor attached to the drive). So I assumed there was a "new" packaging. Hopefully they are still using the helium 8TB Red not the air 8TB Red.


----------



## tommage1

Lrscpa said:


> Seems that the 2.5" 3TB drive choices suggested here are limited. And expensive. Could someone tell me if I purchase an external drive, crack it open and use the bare drive, will that work? And which external drives should I chose/avoid.
> 
> Thanks!


Yes, check the posts for info. I have found it is almost impossible to find a 2.5" 2TB and up drive that is not shingled/SMR. About a year ago I bought a 2.5 4TB Seagate and a 2.5 2TB Seagate Mobile to use in a Bolt. Turned out both models were shingled. Far as I know there is just the 3TB model Tivo uses (maybe 2TB of same model) and maybe the WD WD40NPZZ-00PDPTO 4TB (I think there is a 3TB model of the same drive). I think the WD40NPZZ came in an external but have no idea of the model and if that model is still sold. Probably best to go with a good PMR 3.5" drive if you don't mind performing some surgery on the Bolt and using an external enclosure. Best to use a direct Sata connection from the drive to the Bolt motherboard, no ESata.


----------



## shwru980r

I installed a 3TB Seagate ST3000LM016 in my bolt in July 2017 and it is still working.


----------



## PJO1966

I think a 3TB drive would be overkill. Would something like this work?

http://a.co/d/cJMXdDf


----------



## Tony_T

PJO1966 said:


> I think a 3TB drive would be overkill. Would something like this work?
> 
> http://a.co/d/cJMXdDf


For a 2T, the WD20NPVZ is what most on the forum are using:
Amazon has a few as does eBay
(There are a few new/sealed on eBay for $120 - I picked up a spare WD20NPVZ from there)


----------



## UCLABB

tommage1 said:


> I seem to remember you posting about those Seagates, were you the person that had the firmware 0001 versions? Have you seen the WD 4TB WD40NPZZ? There is a thread about it here. I wonder where the seller gets them, maybe some external model? Some WD 4TB 2.5 models that come in enclosures do not have a SATA connection on the drive at all, USB is on the board. I wonder if anyone was capable of changing the board to one with a SATA connection?
> 
> I am probably going to try the external route with a helium WD 8TB red (someone informed me WD is selling some air instead of helium WD reds now, some of those come in Elements 8TB externals from what I see, I guess they are rebranded HGST?) Going to get one of those SATA cable extenders to hook up to the Bolt motherboard directly (SATA male on one end, goes to SATA port on the Bolt motherboard, SATA female on the other, will come out of the case and can hookup the external to it). Use a couple shims so the cable does not get pinched, would prefer not cutting the Bolt case. Will put the 8TB in an external case and use the case for power. Will use a standard SATA cable connected to the drive in the case, the other end will connect to the female end of the SATA extender cable coming from the Bolt. This way seems good to me since should be easy to disconnect the drive from the Bolt since the enclosure and the Bolt will each have their own cable.
> 
> View attachment 36522


If my drive fails again, I will go this route. Maybe not all the way up to 8tb, but at least a 4tb external. I think I still have all the cabling and power parts I need from the time I hooked up an external to my old SA8300HD DVR that I had with Charter. I just let it sit bare, no case, on a mouse pad to cut the vibration noise.


----------



## PJO1966

it turns out that I have Sunday off this weekend so my goal is to find a place where I can get a drive in person. I don't care if it's 2TB or 3TB. the soonest Amazon can get me one is Tuesday. I checked Fry's and Best Buy for the recommended drives with no luck. Any thoughts on where else I can look in Los Angeles?


----------



## PJO1966

It looks like my brick and mortar options are limited to zero. No luck with Amazon Prime Now either. I had hoped to get everything in my cord cutting plan handled this weekend. No such luck.


----------



## PJO1966

shwru980r said:


> I installed a 3TB Seagate ST3000LM016 in my bolt in July 2017 and it is still working.





PJO1966 said:


> I think a 3TB drive would be overkill. Would something like this work?
> 
> http://a.co/d/cJMXdDf


For some reason I thought I only had a 2TB drive in my Roamio. It's a 3TB.

The reviews on that Seagate aren't stellar. There's more than one review saying it worked for a year or so before dying.


----------



## aaronwt

PJO1966 said:


> I think a 3TB drive would be overkill. Would something like this work?
> 
> http://a.co/d/cJMXdDf


Seagate use SMR in their drives.

Although one of my 4TB Seagate SMR drives is still working in a bolt. It's been around thirty six months now that it has been used in Bolts. I started using it in October 2015, with a launch Bolt.


----------



## PJO1966

I need to go to Best Buy tomorrow to return something so I'm going to see if I can find something suitable to put in. Are there any specs I should look for or avoid?


----------



## Tony_T

Avoid SMR drives.


----------



## Anotherpyr

PJO1966 said:


> For some reason I thought I only had a 2TB drive in my Roamio. It's a 3TB.


I'm confused. Are you looking for a drive for the bolt or roamio? The bolt takes 2.5" drives and the roamio takes 3.5" drives. The bolt drives will be the hardest to find as the selection is limited. As others have mentioned you want to avoid the shingled drives (SMR). Also 7200 rpm drives will run hotter which will be an issue in the bolt. I currently have the 3TB Toshiba recommended drive in my bolt.


----------



## PJO1966

I'm replacing my Roamio with a Bolt OTA. For some reason I thought the Roamio had a 1TB drive, so buying a 2TB drive for the Bolt would be more than enough. I was just pointing out that I needed to get a 3TB drive for the Bolt if I want the same capacity I have now on the Roamio.


----------



## phox_mulder

This is the 3TB drive I put in my Bolt right after I got it in April 2017, I'm only using it for OTA.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017O266UE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Price has gone up a bit, and it's no longer "Prime", but does have free shipping.
It's been rock steady ever since.
At the time, it was the drive recommended here.


----------



## PJO1966

phox_mulder said:


> This is the 3TB drive I put in my Bolt right after I got it in April 2017, I'm only using it for OTA.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017O266UE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> Price has gone up a bit, and it's no longer "Prime", but does have free shipping.
> It's been rock steady ever since.
> At the time, it was the drive recommended here.


I didn't have any luck in person at Best Buy. I'll be ordering this one.


----------



## Mikeguy

PJO1966 said:


> I didn't have any luck in person at Best Buy. I'll be ordering this one.


And it's currently a bit less expensive at MacSales.com.


----------



## Anotherpyr

PJO1966 said:


> I didn't have any luck in person at Best Buy. I'll be ordering this one.


Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3.0TB 2.5-inch 15.0mm SATA... at MacSales.com is cheaper and where I got mine.


----------



## Mikeguy

Amazon and its Marketplace selling seems to flip-flop on the Toshiba 2.5" 3GB drives--they have them, they don't (or limited), price is up, price goes down. Life is too short . . . .


----------



## PJO1966

Anotherpyr said:


> Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3.0TB 2.5-inch 15.0mm SATA... at MacSales.com is cheaper and where I got mine.


Ordered from MacSales last night. Since the price was lower I could afford expedited shipping. I should have it tomorrow.

Thanks


----------



## shwru980r

PJO1966 said:


> For some reason I thought I only had a 2TB drive in my Roamio. It's a 3TB.
> 
> The reviews on that Seagate aren't stellar. There's more than one review saying it worked for a year or so before dying.


The one I have is the older 17mm model sold by a third party seller. It was a return and cost $99. The newer model is 15mm. Most of the negative reviews were because the drive was too thick to fit in a laptop, but yes there are some reviews for premature failure. So far so good.


----------



## rgr

PJO1966 said:


> Ordered from MacSales last night. Since the price was lower I could afford expedited shipping. I should have it tomorrow.
> 
> Thanks


How has this worked for you? I'm looking to upgrade and it looks promising.


----------



## PJO1966

rgr said:


> How has this worked for you? I'm looking to upgrade and it looks promising.


So far so good.


----------



## Doc Holiday

I have been running the Toshiba drive (2TB version MQ03ABB200) now for 2 years. No issues. It's been a champ.


----------



## DrDanQ

After reading all 13 pages (so far) of this thread....I've learned a LOT. To help those who have come in late in the game who are asking a lot of questions whose answers are buried somewhere in the first 13 pages somewhere who haven't had the time to read all 13 pages yet......
AND to make sure I'm not misunderstanding what you guys are saying.....
here is a synopsis of what I learned so far:
1. SMR drives are BAD.....better to get PMR type drives. (no one says "why"...but I'm taking your word for it).
2. The Bolt accepts 2 ½" drives....not the 3 ½" drives...making finding suitable replacements a bit more difficult.
3. HD's need to be "AV" drives....capable of high loads.....constant reading/writing since its for a DVR.
4. Your replacement drive can be up to 15mm thick.
5. You'll need a nice set of Torx screw drivers to open the box.
6. The older White Bolt comes apart somewhat easily without breaking....but apparently the newer Black Bolt Vox has been altered by TiVo to make opening it difficult....and both people who've tried it have broken the snaps that hold it together.
7. If your new HD is 3TB or smaller the Bolt will format it for you.
8. If your new HD is larger than 3TB you'll have to use an app called MFSR.exe to format it before installing it.
9.  Favorite drives are the Western Digitals....but sadly you can only find up to 2TB from Amazon and they reserve the 3TB model to OEM's and places like WeakNees.....where it'll cost you $280 or so.
10. Some are using larger 3 ½ drives with more capacity because they are easier to find and less expensive. You have to put them in an enclosure and buy a SATA cord to connect to the Bolt inside. Tivogre has nice photos in the page 6 or 7 range outlining how he did his. Advantage is also that when the HD finally dies....you don't have to crack open your Tivo to change it. It's in the enclosure outside the TiVo already. His is 8TB. Had to use MFSR to format it.
11. There are apps to copy/backup your recorded programs/movies called KMTTG or PYTIVO.
12. The "preferred" WD hard drives are: 2TB WD20NPVZ and for 3TB WD30NPRZ
13. There are different colored labels on the WD drives.....White label, Blue label, Red label, etc. This must mean "something"....maybe identifying which one's are "AV" rated drives....but so far no one has clarified that.
I know the recommended 2TB drive from WD is a "Blue Label" drive. I'm guessing the 3TB drive is also a Blue label.
14. The 3TB Toshiba HD is an PMR drive that fits and works....and has had mixed results. Some are saying it's been 2 years and it's going strong....others had them die after 6 months.

So there you have it. I hope the veterans here will correct any errors I've made.


----------



## fis

DrDanQ said:


> After reading all 13 pages (so far) of this thread....I've learned a LOT. To help those who have come in late in the game who are asking a lot of questions whose answers are buried somewhere in the first 13 pages somewhere who haven't had the time to read all 13 pages yet......
> AND to make sure I'm not misunderstanding what you guys are saying.....
> here is a synopsis of what I learned so far:
> 1. SMR drives are BAD.....better to get PMR type drives. (no one says "why"...but I'm taking your word for it).
> 2. The Bolt accepts 2 ½" drives....not the 3 ½" drives...making finding suitable replacements a bit more difficult.
> 3. HD's need to be "AV" drives....capable of high loads.....constant reading/writing since its for a DVR.
> 4. Your replacement drive can be up to 15mm thick.
> 5. You'll need a nice set of Torx screw drivers to open the box.
> 6. The older White Bolt comes apart somewhat easily without breaking....but apparently the newer Black Bolt Vox has been altered by TiVo to make opening it difficult....and both people who've tried it have broken the snaps that hold it together.
> 7. If your new HD is 3TB or smaller the Bolt will format it for you.
> 8. If your new HD is larger than 3TB you'll have to use an app called MFSR.exe to format it before installing it.
> 9. Favorite drives are the Western Digitals....but sadly you can only find up to 2TB from Amazon and they reserve the 3TB model to OEM's and places like WeakNees.....where it'll cost you $280 or so.
> 10. Some are using larger 3 ½ drives with more capacity because they are easier to find and less expensive. You have to put them in an enclosure and buy a SATA cord to connect to the Bolt inside. Tivogre has nice photos in the page 6 or 7 range outlining how he did his. Advantage is also that when the HD finally dies....you don't have to crack open your Tivo to change it. It's in the enclosure outside the TiVo already. His is 8TB. Had to use MFSR to format it.
> 11. There are apps to copy/backup your recorded programs/movie called KMTTG or PYTIVO.
> 12. The "preferred" WD hard drives are: 2TB WD20NPVZ and for 3TB WD30NPRZ
> 13. There are different colored labels on the WD drives.....White label, Blue label, Red label, etc. This must mean "something"....maybe identifying which one's are "AV" rated drives....but so far no one has clarified that.
> I know the recommended 2TB drive from WD is a "Blue Label" drive. I'm guessing the 3TB drive is also a Blue label.
> 14. The 3TB Toshiba HD is an SMR drive that fits and works....and has had mixed results. Some are saying it's been 2 years and it's going strong....others had them die after 6 months.
> 
> So there you have it. I hope the veterans here will correct any errors I've made.


Nicely summarized!
I will add the following to our learnings:
- Regarding #10, there are other advantages to 3 1/2" drives: they are available comparatively inexpensively in a variety of larger capacities, and if your Bolt is in a cabinet, you can just leave the cover off and everything runs cooler (you don't even need a full enclosure -- just something to provide power to the drive).
- Regarding #13, I believe the BLUE and RED drives are both A/V rated. This is the same for 2 1/2" and 3 1/2" drives.
- Regarding #14, all correct, but worth noting that the Toshiba 3 year warranty is terrible. If it does fail, they will not replace the drive NOR will they provide a full refund, and they count the 3 years from the date is was manufactured, not the date you bought it. After failing at 6 months, Toshiba took another 6 months to evaluate then send me a VISA card for about 2/3 what I paid.


----------



## DrDanQ

I think I may have found the answer to the mystery of the colored labels from Western Digital......Go to:
Western Digital WD HDD Colors Difference
for an explanation of the differences. From what I read there....it would appear that the Black, Red, and Purple label drives would be best. The Purple label drives are for surveillance video applications...which is typically a good choice for a DVR.


----------



## Doc Holiday

DrDanQ said:


> 14. The 3TB Toshiba HD is an SMR drive that fits and works....and has had mixed results. Some are saying it's been 2 years and it's going strong....others had them die after 6 months.


The Toshiba drive is actually PMR. A ton of people are using them. It features a 3-year warranty (WD WD30NPRZ is two years) and a has a 600,000 MTTF. Otherwise, nice summary.


----------



## DrDanQ

Doc Holiday said:


> The Toshiba drive is actually PMR. A ton of people are using them. It features a 3-year warranty (WD WD30NPRZ is two years) and a has a 600,000 MTTF. Otherwise, nice summary.


Okay....sorry! Didn't pick up that bit of information....I'll edit my summary.


----------



## DrDanQ

Here is a nice Purple label WD 4TB HD from Amazon for a good price:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071KVB4F8/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza
And here is the 8TB Purple label drive.....
https://www.amazon.com/Purple-Surve...&qid=1542411853&sr=1-2&keywords=wd+purple+8tb

How would anyone ever know whether or not either of them was an SMR or a PMR drive?
I could put the 4TB model in an enclosure like Tivogre did with his 8TB drive....for way less than the 2 ½" 3TB WD drive that Weaknees sells.


----------



## DrDanQ

Tivogre said:


> I'm finally taking the plunge on an 8TB External Drive for the Bolt + !!!
> 
> Got the recommended Rosewill RX304-APU-35B enclosure and installed an 8TB WD Drive shucked from an easystore ($169 at Best Buy last week).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First step was to cut out a small section of the air intake vent to allow a SATA extension cable (1 male end and 1 female end) to exit the rear of the case:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then, I found a path to run a SATA cable out of the Bolt case, and secured the cable with wire ties to the fan mount screw:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, drilled two 3/8" holes and carefully connected then with a Dremel (back of the Bolt case, just to the right of the metal plate):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Extension cable from drive enclosure mated to SATA cable from the Bolt:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Up and running with 1279HD hours.
> 
> Currently applying updates (probably Hydra)...


Hi Tivogre....would you mind sharing the model HD you got? I found a Purple label 8TB WD drive on Amazon....but they don't specify whether or not it's an SMR or PMR drive or not.
Also...could you please explain what "Hydra" is? What are it's advantages....or IOW's....why should I want it?


----------



## kpeters59

Nice summary! Thanks!

KMTTG can also be used to save your OnePasses, Channels and Thumbs Ratings to a file to reload when a new drive is installed.

-KP


----------



## TivoJD

Does anyone know what model HD is in the 1TB Bolts?


----------



## DrDanQ

TivoJD said:


> Does anyone know what model HD is in the 1TB Bolts?


I know that it is mentioned somewhere earlier in this thread.....but I didn't write down the model number. Scan this thread and you'll find it.


----------



## V7Goose

DrDanQ said:


> Also...could you please explain what "Hydra" is? What are it's advantages....or IOW's....why should I want it?


There are about a billion threads here about Hydra/TE4, so I won't try to do more than just answer the basics quickly:

Hydra is the newest TiVo software - it is also known as TE4 (TiVo Experience 4). The newest release is now sometimes being called Mira, but it is still TE4. Most people still just refer to all the new software as Hydra.

The older software that is still available and in wide use is now being called Encore, also known as TE3. New boxes are all being sold with TE4 loaded, but they CAN be converted back to TE3 (but you loose all recordings on the box when you do that).

*The most simple way to instantly tell if your box has TE3 or TE4 is to just hit the TiVo button - if the screen says TiVo Central, then that box is running Encore/TE3. If the screen says TiVo Home (top left corner), then it is running Hydra/TE4.*

The reason you can still get/keep TE3 is that a HUGE part of the user community HATES TE4. Not only does it have a cumbersome nasty user interface, but they have deliberately removed some very important capabilities from the TiVo to interact with other TiVo boxes in your home.

I am running boxes with both TE3 and TE4 for testing, and in MY opinion, I know of absolutely NO reason why you would ever want TE4 in its current form. A limited number of other users will, of course, disagree with me.

Voice interface with a TiVo ONLY works with TE4. But I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would want to talk to a machine. (And I never owned a "Clapper" either!)


----------



## Tony_T

I disagree with you 

(BTW, The _biggest_ problem with Hyda is that if you upgrade and don't like it, you will lose all recordings and settings if you later downgrade (but not in an upgrade)).


----------



## DrDanQ

V7Goose said:


> There are about a billion threads here about Hydra/TE4, so I won't try to do more than just answer the basics quickly:
> 
> Hydra is the newest TiVo software - it is also known as TE4 (TiVo Experience 4). The newest release is now sometimes being called Mira, but it is still TE4. Most people still just refer to all the new software as Hydra.
> 
> The older software that is still available and in wide use is now being called Encore, also known as TE3. New boxes are all being sold with TE4 loaded, but they CAN be converted back to TE3 (but you loose all recordings on the box when you do that).
> 
> *The most simple way to instantly tell if your box has TE3 or TE4 is to just hit the TiVo button - if the screen says TiVo Central, then that box is running Encore/TE3. If the screen says TiVo Home (top left corner), then it is running Hydra/TE4.*
> 
> The reason you can still get/keep TE3 is that a HUGE part of the user community HATES TE4. Not only does it have a cumbersome nasty user interface, but they have deliberately removed some very important capabilities from the TiVo to interact with other TiVo boxes in your home.
> 
> I am running boxes with both TE3 and TE4 for testing, and in MY opinion, I know of absolutely NO reason why you would ever want TE4 in its current form. A limited number of other users will, of course, disagree with me.
> 
> Voice interface with a TiVo ONLY works with TE4. But I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would want to talk to a machine. (And I never owned a "Clapper" either!)


OKAY.....now I get it. I have only had my Tivo Bolt Vox for about a month now....and it has the latest software.....which I now know is called "Hydra". I have never experienced the older version TE3....so I don't know what I may be missing. I like what I have just fine....but then again....it's all I know!

Now....if I could just get someone here with HD expertise to answer my question about the Purple label drive I mentioned a few posts ago.....


----------



## DrDanQ

I have been through the information on Western Digital's website about their Purple label drives (all of them).....and they don't mention one word about the recording system any of them uses. So I STILL don't know whether or not it reads/writes using SMR or PMR. Some of you guys seems to know which drives are or aren't SMR vs. PMR....and I really wonder "how you know"....since they don't specify it on the company website.
I would "think" that since it's a Purple label drive designed for continuous use (surveillance and DVR's).....it ought to be a good choice.


----------



## Mikeguy

DrDanQ said:


> OKAY.....now I get it. I have only had my Tivo Bolt Vox for about a month now....and it has the latest software.....which I now know is called "Hydra". I have never experienced the older version TE3....so I don't know what I may be missing. I like what I have just fine....but then again....it's all I know!


The 4 "biggies" with Hydra, from the old school:

1. It didn't used to do folder play--recently "fixed."

2. It doesn't have the full Live Guide, which some users vehemently prefer to the Grid Guide. (TiVo has added a mini Live Guide, since Hydra's introduction.)

3. A real biggie: with Hydra, you can't transfer a show on your PC to your TiVo box, only the other direction--TE3 goes both ways.

4. And, apart from some other quibbles (not to demean their importance to some--e.g. how to go "back" in Hydra), some people just don't like the Hydra look, with its show graphics emphasis. Heck, some people haven't liked the show graphics in TE3, which are relatively limited.

You're now totally up-to-speed.


----------



## PJO1966

And there are those of us who have had TiVo since 2000 or so and like Hydra just fine.


----------



## Tony_T

Mikeguy said:


> ...some people just don't like the Hydra look, with its show graphics emphasis. Heck, some people haven't liked the show graphics in TE3, which are relatively limited.


If show graphics are what I think you mean, then yeah I really hate them... So much that I selected the option in Hyda to turn them off


----------



## Mikeguy

PJO1966 said:


> And there are those of us who have had TiVo since 2000 or so and like Hydra just fine.


Do they yet make up a Jewish minyan*? 

* "the number of persons required by Jewish law to be present to conduct a communal religious service, traditionally a minimum of 10 Jewish males over 13 years of age. such a group."


----------



## Mikeguy

Tony_T said:


> If show graphics are what I think you mean, then yeah I really hate them... So much that I selected the option in Hyda to turn them off


I'm still parched (i.e. Hydra-free)--can all the various TE4 show graphics boxes and show slidestrips now be turned off, approaching the level of TE3?


----------



## Tony_T

Mikeguy said:


> I'm still parched (i.e. Hydra-free)--can all the various TE4 show graphics boxes and show slidestrips now be turned off, approaching the level of TE3?


I'm a new Tivo user, only have been for a year, and while I can turn off the background images (this is what I thought you were referring to), and video window, there is still the useless (to me) Dynamic Strip and Show Strip that cannot be turned off.


----------



## JoeKustra

Tony_T said:


> I'm a new Tivo user, only have been for a year, and while I can turn off the background images (this is what I thought you were referring to), and video window, there is still the useless (to me) Dynamic Strip and Show Strip that cannot be turned off.


My Shows looks like TE3 if you disable "Show episode strip". That's "A" in My Shows, or My Shows Options in User Preferences.

I don't know what "Dynamic Strip" refers to, sorry.


----------



## Tony_T

Dynamic Strip Smartbar is the strip in Tivo Home that attempts to give you your shows based on viewing behavior. Also has Netflix shows sometimes, even if you're not a subscriber.

..._and TiVo's new SmartBar™, a personalized prediction of shows to watch at that time influenced by prior viewing behavior Press Release | TiVo

_


----------



## JoeKustra

Tony_T said:


> Dynamic Strip Smartbar is the strip in Tivo Home that attempts to give you your shows based on viewing behavior. Also has Netflix shows sometimes, even if you're not a subscriber.
> ..._and TiVo's new SmartBar™, a personalized prediction of shows to watch at that time influenced by prior viewing behavior Press Release | TiVo_


Sorry, I can't test that since my TiVo is acting strange. I may have the Roamio equivalent of the Bolt failure for expanded hard drives.


----------



## fis

For those of you considering the 3.5" drive option, Fry's has the Western Digital RED 4TB for $99 through 11/21. My Bolt has been humming along with this drive for some time. Great deal.


----------



## DrDanQ

fis said:


> For those of you considering the 3.5" drive option, Fry's has the Western Digital RED 4TB for $99 through 11/21. My Bolt has been humming along with this drive for some time. Great deal.


That's a good price! The Purple label 4TB from Amazon is $117. Black, Red, and Purple seem to be the most durable among the various WD labels....and the Purple is specifically for surveillance and AV/DVR use. Makes me wonder why Tivo put a Blue Label drive in the Tivo?


----------



## fis

DrDanQ said:


> That's a good price! The Purple label 4TB from Amazon is $117. Black, Red, and Purple seem to be the most durable among the various WD labels....and the Purple is specifically for surveillance and AV/DVR use. Makes me wonder why Tivo put a Blue Label drive in the Tivo?


I suspect they would all work, but here, IMO, is why you see people recommending Blue and Red:
*WD BLUE*: I bought my first WD Blue drive about 9 years ago when these were the only drives that were "A/V Rated" for use as expanded storage with DVRs, which is to say that they can keep up with the demands of video without causing hiccups and dropped frames on recording and playback. Today, none of the cable companies (or TiVO) support DIY expanded storage, so you don't see that "A/V rated" thing being promoted. WD seems to have "demoted" the blue line in that they are promoting it for regular desktop use, but that doesn't mean it won't work well in a DVR. It's older tech now, but in fact, Blue drives are still what you find when you crack open a lot of DVRs.
*WD RED*: This newer line is optimized for NAS RAID environments, which means reading and writing reliably 24 hours a day. It's newer technology than Blue, with firmware onboard that controls vibration and temperature sensitivity, spin speed and cache allocation. That's why I expanded my Bolt with a Red drive.
*WD PURPLE*: This newer line is designed for surveillance systems, which call for nonstop writing but relatively minimal reading. I imagine that they would do the job and be durable, but Red seems more optimal for what a TiVO does, particularly given the prices.
*WD BLACK*: You are paying for high access speeds and not for durability -- higher speeds than your TiVO needs.
*WD GOLD*: Supposedly the highest performance, highest durability. Very expensive, high spin rates and high power consumption compared to Red.


----------



## DrDanQ

fis said:


> I suspect they would all work, but here, IMO, is why you see people recommending Blue and Red:
> *WD BLUE*: I bought my first WD Blue drive about 9 years ago when these were the only drives that were "A/V Rated" for use as expanded storage with DVRs, which is to say that they can keep up with the demands of video without causing hiccups and dropped frames on recording and playback. Today, none of the cable companies (or TiVO) support DIY expanded storage, so you don't see that "A/V rated" thing being promoted. WD seems to have "demoted" the blue line in that they are promoting it for regular desktop use, but that doesn't mean it won't work well in a DVR. It's older tech now, but in fact, Blue drives are still what you find when you crack open a lot of DVRs.
> *WD RED*: This newer line is optimized for NAS RAID environments, which means reading and writing reliably 24 hours a day. It's newer technology than Blue, with firmware onboard that controls vibration and temperature sensitivity, spin speed and cache allocation. That's why I expanded my Bolt with a Red drive.
> *WD PURPLE*: This newer line is designed for surveillance systems, which call for nonstop writing but relatively minimal reading. I imagine that they would do the job and be durable, but Red seems more optimal for what a TiVO does, particularly given the prices.
> *WD BLACK*: You are paying for high access speeds and not for durability -- higher speeds than your TiVO needs.
> *WD GOLD*: Supposedly the highest performance, highest durability. Very expensive, high spin rates and high power consumption compared to Red.


Okay....so do you know if this Red Label drive is SMR or PMR???


----------



## cherry ghost

Pretty sure the Red and Purple are PMR. 

The original WD AV drives were Green.


----------



## Mikeguy

Tony_T said:


> Dynamic Strip Smartbar is the strip in Tivo Home that attempts to give you your shows based on viewing behavior. Also has Netflix shows sometimes, *even if you're not a subscriber*.
> 
> ..._and TiVo's new SmartBar™, a personalized prediction of shows to watch at that time influenced by prior viewing behavior Press Release | TiVo_


Did Netflix pay a fee for that?


----------



## Tony_T

Don't know, but can't see why Tivo would give Netflix a prime spot for free.


----------



## JoeKustra

Tony_T said:


> Don't know, but can't see why Tivo would give Netflix a prime spot for free.


It may be a coincidence, but that first location with TE4/Mira began about the same time the gold star started showing Netflix using TE3/Quattro/Encore.


----------



## Tony_T

JoeKustra said:


> It may be a coincidence, but that first location with TE4/Mira began about the same time the gold star started showing Netflix using TE3/Quattro/Encore.


----------



## JoeKustra

I have no problem with TiVo's marketing department justifying their existence.


----------



## SalemCat

Tony_T said:


> Don't know, but can't see why Tivo would give Netflix a prime spot for free.


Because customers demand Netflix be readily available ?


----------



## Tony_T

SalemCat said:


> Because customers demand Netflix be readily available ?


The "Tile" is shown to non-subscribers


----------



## SalemCat

Tony_T said:


> The "Tile" is shown to non-subscribers


Ok, but people like their equipment to be capable of functions they never use.

I see the HULU Tile, too. I don't subscribe, but it would be very easy to just click on it and do so.


----------



## Mikeguy

But I guess for me, I don't have a Netflix subscription--and so, having a Netflix tile on my Shows page (1) takes up valuable space that could be used for something relevant to me; and (2) almost seems like an advertisement/enticement to buy a subscription to Netflix.


----------



## Tony_T

It is 2). Click on the tile.


----------



## Mikeguy

Tony_T said:


> It is 2). Click on the tile.


Yeah, I don't click around.


----------



## SalemCat

V7Goose said:


> There are about a billion threads here about Hydra/TE4, so I won't try to do more than just answer the basics quickly:
> 
> Hydra is the newest TiVo software - it is also known as TE4 (TiVo Experience 4). The newest release is now sometimes being called Mira, but it is still TE4. Most people still just refer to all the new software as Hydra.
> 
> The older software that is still available and in wide use is now being called Encore, also known as TE3. New boxes are all being sold with TE4 loaded, but they CAN be converted back to TE3 (but you loose all recordings on the box when you do that).
> 
> *The most simple way to instantly tell if your box has TE3 or TE4 is to just hit the TiVo button - if the screen says TiVo Central, then that box is running Encore/TE3. If the screen says TiVo Home (top left corner), then it is running Hydra/TE4.*
> 
> The reason you can still get/keep TE3 is that a HUGE part of the user community HATES TE4. Not only does it have a cumbersome nasty user interface, but they have deliberately removed some very important capabilities from the TiVo to interact with other TiVo boxes in your home.
> 
> I am running boxes with both TE3 and TE4 for testing, and in MY opinion, I know of absolutely NO reason why you would ever want TE4 in its current form. A limited number of other users will, of course, disagree with me.
> 
> Voice interface with a TiVo ONLY works with TE4. But I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would want to talk to a machine. (And I never owned a "Clapper" either!)


So simple.

Thanks !!


----------



## SalemCat

cherry ghost said:


> Pretty sure the Red and Purple are PMR.
> 
> The original WD AV drives were Green.


The WD PURPLE A/V drives are awesome, imho.

But they do not manufacture them in 2.5"


----------



## SalemCat

Mikeguy said:


> The 4 "biggies" with Hydra, from the old school:
> 
> 1. It didn't used to do folder play--recently "fixed."
> 
> 2. It doesn't have the full Live Guide, which some users vehemently prefer to the Grid Guide. (TiVo has added a mini Live Guide, since Hydra's introduction.)
> 
> *3. A real biggie: with Hydra, you can't transfer a show on your PC to your TiVo box, only the other direction--TE3 goes both ways.*
> 
> 4. And, apart from some other quibbles (not to demean their importance to some--e.g. how to go "back" in Hydra), some people just don't like the Hydra look, with its show graphics emphasis. Heck, some people haven't liked the show graphics in TE3, which are relatively limited.
> 
> You're now totally up-to-speed.


So how do you ever watch that recording again ?


----------



## SalemCat

DrDanQ said:


> OKAY.....now I get it. I have only had my Tivo Bolt Vox for about a month now....and it has the latest software.....which I now know is called "Hydra". I have never experienced the older version TE3....so I don't know what I may be missing. I like what I have just fine....but then again....it's all I know!
> 
> Now....if I could just get someone here with HD expertise to answer my question about the Purple label drive I mentioned a few posts ago.....


I'd had a 3.5" WD 4TB PURPLE AV WD40PURZ in my Premiere for a while, and have the same HD in my Desktop as a second HD for DATA ONLY (a SSD runs the OS).

It makes an obvious noise as it spins up in the Desktop. Never in the TiVo. It may be running full speed in the Premiere all the time - I don't know.

WD does not make a PURPLE 2.5" HD, or I would have bought it for my BOLT.


----------



## Mikeguy

SalemCat said:


> So how do you ever watch that recording again ?


That's why some people (including I) have remained on TE3. A biggie, for some of us.

The other alternatives: Plex can be used to play a show stored on one's PC, via the Plex app on one's TiVo box; and it can be watched on one's PC, or cast to one's TV for viewing (or otherwise be watched on a TV through other tech. that a specific TV has).


----------



## SalemCat

Mikeguy said:


> That's why some people (including I) have remained on TE3. A biggie, for some of us.
> 
> The other alternatives: Plex can be used to play a show stored on one's PC, via the Plex app on one's TiVo box; and it can be watched on one's PC, or cast to one's TV for viewing (or otherwise be watched on a TV through other tech. that a specific TV has).


All good but awkward. I especially hate Chromecast. So glad I sold them.

And when we sit down to watch a show, the family expects DAD to deliver instantly.


----------



## Mikeguy

SalemCat said:


> All good but awkward. I especially hate Chromecast. So glad I sold them.
> 
> And when we sit down to watch a show, the family expects DAD to deliver instantly.


I've been amazed at how well network compatibility can work, though. I had a standalone LED television for 10+ years and it then died a year ago. Picked up a network-connected Samsung TV and playing show content on it is as easy, and smooth, as right clicking on the show file on my Win10 laptop, choosing "Cast to Device," and selecting the device--a connection is made between the two, a mini-player window pops up on my laptop, and the play starts on the TV, all in around 20 seconds. No trick play, which I miss, but a good stand-in when the TiVo box is not available or I don't want to spend the time transferring a one-off show to the TiVo box.


----------



## fis

DrDanQ said:


> Okay....so do you know if this Red Label drive is SMR or PMR???


They are PMR


----------



## BakCompat

Quick summary of PMR vs. SMR drives: What is Shingled Magnetic Recording (SMR)? | StorageReview.com - Storage Reviews
How do you know if the drive you want is SMR or PMR? You'll need to get the data sheet/user manual for the exact model and read the fine print.

Howdy guys. Been a while since I've posted, but I am coming back to tivo now, so wanted to get into this one too. I've had tivo since an original Phillips box running v1.3 software. Anyway, Never had trouble with hardware failure that I can remember, as I've upgraded units over the years to newer ones. Last year, my cable provider, Time Warner (now Spectrum) went to Switched Digital Video. My series 3 unit wouldn't work, because I was still on good ole analog coax cable input. How many years did that last? Well, after seeing what Spectrum wants to bill me after 12 months "introductory" pricing is over, it's time to chunk that ****eous Time Warner DVR and replace with a working tivo. Looking around, I just ordered a Bolt VOX 500gb (VOX units seem to be the only brand new ones available at normal prices. New non-VOX units cost more $!) model cuz it was the cheapest at $170, and I could always replace the hard drive when I want to. Having had to install the proprietary network card into the old standalone unit way back when just to get ethernet, hardware hacking ain't a problem for me. Back then, MFSTools was brand new and all done manually and you kinda did need to know a bit o' linux to expand partitions.

So reading up on this thing, it looks like as long as I stick to a 3tb disk or smaller, the motherboard will automatically format an inserted replacement disk and load necessary files to get it running. Presumably, there will be a ****ton of patches to grab in the oncoming days as the UI is replaced with Hydra or whatever its called now. I suspect, having come from tivo 1.3, I will absolutely ABHOR the new UI and will want to downgrade to the classic interface. *Am I able to do this from the getgo from blank disk install and setup, or do I actually have to upgrade to Hydra, and then manually downgrade inside the UI to the classic interface, as I seem to have read in a prior post somewhere?*

But on to the meat of my post and my thoughts on it. Current pricing for the Western Digital WD20NPVZ drive is $149 and the Toshiba MQ03ABB300 is $160. Based on that, might as well go straight to the 3tb disk for only 10 Federal Reserve notes more. Sure, there are some people reporting failures with this disk over the WD, but this is largely normal for all makes and models of disk! Additionally, the Toshiba disk allows for an Asurion 3rd party *FOUR YEAR WARRANTY* when purchased via Amazon. Asurion seems to be rated pretty well: Top 16,772 Reviews and Complaints about Asurion Yeah, I can save $30 if I buy it from macsales.com, but for only 5 bucks more, I can get an aftermarket *4 year warranty*!! That should assuage the ire of anyone who DOES have a failure with it. _It's only 5 bucks more!_ That's a no brainer, even if I don't use it.

If you plan on buying large capacity disks for ANY use.... in ANY device. Do your due diligence. Do a complete surface scan for defect THREE times on said disk to verify it's integrity. For those not too familiar with drives, it's generally accepted that they fail either very quickly in their life or very late in their life. This is sort of a consequence of the manufacturing process. So essentially, if your disk lasts longer than a month with typical usage, it is likely to last beyond the warranty period. Yes, you can still have a failure within that time frame, even at 1.5 years or whatnot. We're talking about the big picture of all the disks out there and not just you alone. That's beyond the scope of this though. If you want to get some more info about drive longevity, check out BackBlaze's blog where they publish quarterly updates on their hard drive farms used for online consumer data backup and the failure rate of them. Backblaze Drive Stats: 2018 Hard Drive Failure Rates
Google has even published a few white papers over the years on this topic. Yeah, they may not be "AV" type hard drives, but they have data written to them pretty darn incessantly. So, it's a fairly decent comparison. They are continually in the process of decommissioning older smaller disks and replacing with newer larger disks. So, it's the most likely source for reliability stats.

But... I mentioned testing your new disks to verify they are good and not going to fail! There are several apps out there for hard disk burn in testing, and you're welcome to use any of them you like. Just use a reliable one, and do it thoroughly, at least 3 times. My testing includes a short SMART check, a long SMART check, and then a *THREE PASS badblocks* scan, all conducted under linux. I do these 3 tests, because *smartctl *and *badblocks *are both free and part of linux. Most any livecd should do if you don't have a live working linux box ready to use. Note though, that you will need to have a box running nonstop and otherwise unused by you to do these tests. Yes, I said THREE complete disk passes. For large disks, this can be quite time consuming, essentially requiring dozens of hours per pass, depending on disk size. DO IT! It's good insurance to test a disk before you put it into a device like a tivo only to learn you will have a disk failure later and lose lots of saved video on it. But how might you do this in a semi-reliable way? Well, there are several ways to do so, but I will point you to a post I wrote when I drive shucked WD RED 8tb disks from USB external enclosures to upgrade my FreeNAS box from 6x 2TB WD Greens (with the LCC firmware mod) to 6x 8TB WD RED drives.

See [DEAD] WD reds 4/8TB $90/$200 via shucking - update, 8TB reds now $180, 4TB deal looks dead. and
[DEAD] WD reds 4/8TB $90/$200 via shucking - update, 8TB reds now $180, 4TB deal looks dead.
But really, you should read the entire thread for more info on shucking large drives and related info like the scoop on the Chinese/Thailand sourced 8tb RED drives and cache sizes, and helium or air filled. Buried in that thread is info on how to run *badblocks *concurrently on more than one disk. I ran it concurrently on all 6 disks so they completed testing very closely to each other timewise. Running the *badblocks *complete 3 passes took 5 days, 16 hours with the configuration settings I chose for the script (block group of 2654 instead of 64). You might want to use the same or different. YMMV. If a disk fails a *badblocks *triple scan, that means you need to return it immediately and replace with a new one, and triple scan that new one.

Following this protocol, or a similar one, will GREATLY increase the likelihood that you will have a disk that lasts you a long time and is trouble free.

TL;DR: Burn-In Test your large capacity disk before using it!
Hard Drive Burn-in Testing

Do in linux:
smartctl -t short /dev/adaX
smartctl -t conveyance /dev/adaX
smartctl -t long /dev/adaX
badblocks -b 4096 -ws /dev/adaX (destroys all data on disk - but it's a brand new blank disk right?)
---------------------
For my part, I will probably buy the Toshiba 3tb disk, but now that i'm thinking about it, I have a 1tb and a 2tb WD usb3 drive. Neither is really used much these days, so maybe I should shuck the 2tb disk out of that enclosure and just use it. Both of them are a couple years old, so no worries on whether they are PMR or SMR. They're just not new, so will have several hours on them. I'll have to check the SMART data to see just how high the runtime is. Alternatively, I could take the secondary 8th RED drive out of my primary box and install it into the tivo using the method listed by Tivogre at Bolt Hard Drive Upgrade Choice but then I would need to buy the Rosewill external enclosure and a SATA extension cable. Certainly a lower cost, but the setup is really for my parents, and having an extra box sitting around connected via cable and a separate power cable means it's just another potential point of failure if that power cable or sata extension get disconnected, cuz the setup is not in an entertainment box, but open air with other stuff. At any rate, I have a cableCard and tuning adapter ordered and en route via FedEx, so will probably get it next week. Any additional orders would slow the install time down for me, but not really a problem...
----------------------
EDIT: Damn. The *WDC WD20NMVW-11AV3S3* disk inside that little USB case is usb only, no SATA.


----------



## chicagobrownblue

iFixit.com has a guide to replacing the HD in a Bolt to avoid breaking the tabs that hold the Bolt together. It has one pic showing where to place plastic pics to avoid breaking them. And another pic showing all the plastic pics in place. This is very helpful. Of course they sell plastic pics...

TiVo Bolt Hard Drive Replacement


----------



## Tony_T

chicagobrownblue said:


> iFixit.com has a guide to replacing the HD in a Bolt to avoid breaking the tabs that hold the Bolt together. It has one pic showing where to place plastic pics to avoid breaking them. And another pic showing all the plastic pics in place. This is very helpful. Of course they sell plastic pics...
> 
> TiVo Bolt Hard Drive Replacement


Good guide, and there's also this YouTube guide:


----------



## worachj

Oldie but a goodie...
*IF *you're looking for a 1 TB hard drive and _*IF*_ you trust Ebay, here's a link. Brand New in the Static Sealed Bags, $35 shipped, I bought one as a backup/replacement hard drive for one of my three Bolts.

*Western Digital AV-25 1000GB Internal 5400RPM 2.5" (WD10JUCT) HDD*
BNIB Western Digital AV-25 1000GB Internal 5400RPM 2.5" (WD10JUCT) HDD 718037778440 | eBay


----------



## ssaha

I just bought a Bolt Vox 500GB, and picked up a WD Blue 2TB drive (WD20SPZX) to put into it. However, when I booted the Bolt up, after the standard startup screens, it went into a "Starting Up" screen and got stuck there. Leaving it on for a couple of hours did not change it. Anyone know what's going on?


----------



## Tony_T

Not sure, but, the WD20NPVZ is the 2T drive most recommended here.


----------



## fis

ssaha said:


> I just bought a Bolt Vox 500GB, and picked up a WD Blue 2TB drive (WD20SPZX) to put into it. However, when I booted the Bolt up, after the standard startup screens, it went into a "Starting Up" screen and got stuck there. Leaving it on for a couple of hours did not change it. Anyone know what's going on?


Sounds like time for some troubleshooting. First steps:
- swap the old one back in to make sure the TiVO boots up again
- use an enclosure if you have one to run diagnostics on the WD drive (always a good thing to do with a new drive in case you were shipped one with bad sectors or other problems)


----------



## multiple

ssaha said:


> I just bought a Bolt Vox 500GB, and picked up a WD Blue 2TB drive (WD20SPZX) to put into it. However, when I booted the Bolt up, after the standard startup screens, it went into a "Starting Up" screen and got stuck there. Leaving it on for a couple of hours did not change it. Anyone know what's going on?


It appears TiVo is systematically starting to shut down non-standard drives. All my WD40NPZZ drives (I have 4 drives) stopped working a few weeks ago and my 2TB SSD unit I was experimenting with also stopped working. It appears the most recent software updates are starting to disable drives. I and others have been able to insert our original drives and get the system back up and running. We have been able to revert to TE3 and the larger drives begin to work again, but as soon as we let the system upgrade to the latest TE4 release the drives won't boot past the "Starting Up" screen.


----------



## JoeKustra

Very scary. But I wonder if my Roamio OTA that came with 1TB (now has 3TB) will also be affected. Sure would be nice if @TiVo_Ted would provide some guidance.


----------



## CIR-Engineering

multiple said:


> It appears TiVo is systematically starting to shut down non-standard drives. All my WD40NPZZ drives (I have 4 drives) stopped working a few weeks ago and my 2TB SSD unit I was experimenting with also stopped working. It appears the most recent software updates are starting to disable drives. I and others have been able to insert our original drives and get the system back up and running. We have been able to revert to TE3 and the larger drives begin to work again, but as soon as we let the system upgrade to the latest TE4 release the drives won't boot past the "Starting Up" screen.


That's a lot of different drives.... oh man.

craigr


----------



## CloudAtlas

multiple said:


> *It appears TiVo is systematically starting to shut down non-standard drives.* All my WD40NPZZ drives (I have 4 drives) stopped working a few weeks ago and my 2TB SSD unit I was experimenting with also stopped working. *It appears the most recent software updates are starting to disable drives.* I and others have been able to insert our original drives and get the system back up and running. We have been able to revert to TE3 and the larger drives begin to work again, but as soon as we let the system upgrade to the latest TE4 release the drives won't boot past the "Starting Up" screen.


I highly doubt TiVO is doing this on purpose and more likely a side effect of some changes in TE4. Sort of how they broke TiVO <=> PC in TE4. What would be the point of doing this on purpose?


----------



## multiple

The drive failures I'm experiencing occurred over two to maybe three month period. My 2TB SSD was the first to go. I didn't even think of reverting the 2TB SSD to TE3 until the WD40NPZZ thread brought it to my attention. Now that I think about it, I replaced the 2TB SSD with a WD40NPZZ and it worked until the more recent update. The 4TB WD Bolts started failing about two to three weeks ago. I also had a WD20 series drive which I had laying around and it only works under TE3 as well.


----------



## JoeKustra

CloudAtlas said:


> I highly doubt TiVO is doing this on purpose and more likely a side effect of some changes in TE4. Sort of how they broke TiVO <=> PC in TE4. What would be the point of doing this on purpose?


I concur. They have accidentally done a code change that seems to affect Bolts. I have not seen any posts from Roamio owners with upsized drives with a problem. Since everyone didn't fail at the same time, it may be triggered by storage used, number of recordings, etc. so someone with multiple unit failures may find a pattern.


----------



## Tony_T

I would expect to see a lot more issues reported if this were a widespread issue. Maybe this only effects drives > 3T?


----------



## elorimer

JoeKustra said:


> Since everyone didn't fail at the same time


Actually, I think a lot of people had their 4TB drives on Hydra immediately fail with that Thursday update.

And then get them back fine on TE3.


----------



## Mikeguy

I'm not hearing issues with the earlier-recommended Toshiba replacement drive.


----------



## phox_mulder

Mikeguy said:


> I'm not hearing issues with the earlier-recommended Toshiba replacement drive.


My Toshiba 3TB upgraded Bolt has been issue free since upgraded it. (Can't remember how long though)
I am not on Hydra of any flavor, original experience.


----------



## Mikeguy

phox_mulder said:


> My Toshiba 3TB upgraded Bolt has been issue free since upgraded it. (Can't remember how long though)
> *I am not on Hydra* of any flavor, original experience.


That could be the factor, from what is posted.


----------



## global_dev

Tony_T said:


> I would expect to see a lot more issues reported if this were a widespread issue. Maybe this only effects drives > 3T?


i would have thought there would be a lot more bolts trying to figure out how to resolve or do the downgrade.

I'm kind of surprised my 5TB seagate install went without a hitch last week. Maybe the OS update happened before I upgraded the drive when i started it up, it was new unit fresh out the sealed box that had sat for a couple of months before i installed it. crossing my fingers..


----------



## JustJohn7

I have a new 500gb Bolt that I just plugged in and updated a couple of days ago. I also have a new 3tb Toshiba TOSMQ03ABB300 that I'm going to install tomorrow, I'll let you know how it goes. My self installed and formatted/expanded 4tb Roamio is still working fine, all updates applied including Hydra. Personally I'm still looking for a reasonable WD 3tb drive. I just ordered a 3tb WD external, I'll let you know what type of drive they have in it.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XG892ZH/


----------



## JustJohn7

multiple said:


> The drive failures I'm experiencing occurred over two to maybe three month period. My 2TB SSD was the first to go. I didn't even think of reverting the 2TB SSD to TE3 until the WD40NPZZ thread brought it to my attention. Now that I think about it, I replaced the 2TB SSD with a WD40NPZZ and it worked until the more recent update. The 4TB WD Bolts started failing about two to three weeks ago. I also had a WD20 series drive which I had laying around and it only works under TE3 as well.


I would think a TiVo writing 4 or more streams 24 hours a days and an SSD are a bad match for longevity. How long did the SSD work for you?


----------



## JustJohn7

JustJohn7 said:


> I just ordered a 3tb WD external, I'll let you know what type of drive they have in it.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XG892ZH/


OK, it's a shame really, has a WD blue drive, but rather than a SATA to USB adapter, it is a WD 3tb drive with a USB 3 interface. Interestingly enough, the drive in a case brand new is $100 on Amazon, the drive removed from case and used is $200 on ebay, go figure.


----------



## JustJohn7

JoeKustra said:


> Very scary. But I wonder if my Roamio OTA that came with 1TB (now has 3TB) will also be affected. Sure would be nice if @TiVo_Ted would provide some guidance.


I can tell you my Roamio with a 4tb WD AV drive is still working fine. I just set up my new Bolt with a 3tb Toshiba, and it's busy getting all the shows and one passes installed now. No problems installing the 3tb Toshiba.


----------



## JustJohn7

JustJohn7 said:


> I have a new 500gb Bolt that I just plugged in and updated a couple of days ago. I also have a new 3tb Toshiba TOSMQ03ABB300 that I'm going to install tomorrow, I'll let you know how it goes. My self installed and formatted/expanded 4tb Roamio is still working fine, all updates applied including Hydra.


I had no problems installing the Toshiba in my new Bolt, just installed and everything works fine, including all the streaming setup.


----------



## ssaha

multiple said:


> It appears TiVo is systematically starting to shut down non-standard drives. All my WD40NPZZ drives (I have 4 drives) stopped working a few weeks ago and my 2TB SSD unit I was experimenting with also stopped working. It appears the most recent software updates are starting to disable drives. I and others have been able to insert our original drives and get the system back up and running. We have been able to revert to TE3 and the larger drives begin to work again, but as soon as we let the system upgrade to the latest TE4 release the drives won't boot past the "Starting Up" screen.


Update: I swapped the 500GB back in and everything worked. I ran diagnostics on the WD20SPZX and it was fine. I ordered a WD20NPVZ (which ended up being twice the price) and it worked no problem. So it seems that Tivo is blacklisting the WD20SPZX.


----------



## CloudAtlas

ssaha said:


> Update: I swapped the 500GB back in and everything worked. I ran diagnostics on the WD20SPZX and it was fine. I ordered a WD20NPVZ (which ended up being twice the price) and it worked no problem. *So it seems that Tivo is blacklisting the WD20SPZX.*


The only hard drive models guaranteed to work with TiVO are the ones that ship in their DVRs. TiVO is not blacklisting any hard drives.


----------



## Tony_T

CloudAtlas said:


> The only hard drive models guaranteed to work with TiVO are the ones that ship in their DVRs. TiVO is not blacklisting any hard drives.


More of a whitelist. (If a sw update prevents a HD from working (unless its a bug))


----------



## fis

CloudAtlas said:


> The only hard drive models guaranteed to work with TiVO are the ones that ship in their DVRs. TiVO is not blacklisting any hard drives.


Yep. For what it's worth, I was running my Bolt on a 4TB WD Red drive. I accepted the upgrade to the "new experience" 4, and the Bolt crashed. Swapping in the original 500GB drive didn't fix things. I got a replacement "renewed" Bolt from TiVO, hooked it up to the 4TB drive before even booting it up, and it started up immediately with the new experience 4.
So my sample of 1 suggests that the issue was with the upgrade process -- not with any long term drive compatibility bogeyman.


----------



## wxfisch

fis said:


> Yep. For what it's worth, I was running my Bolt on a 4TB WD Red drive. I accepted the upgrade to the "new experience" 4, and the Bolt crashed. Swapping in the original 500GB drive didn't fix things. I got a replacement "renewed" Bolt from TiVO, hooked it up to the 4TB drive before even booting it up, and it started up immediately with the new experience 4.
> So my sample of 1 suggests that the issue was with the upgrade process -- not with any long term drive compatibility bogeyman.


So I ordered a 500GB Bolt on eBay and it arrived today, sitting at home waiting for me to set it up. I need to wait for my FiOS cableCARD to arrive so I have a little bit of time to get a HDD and upgrade the storage. I am looking for a 2TB drive, but the difference in price between the WD NPVZs and SPZXs is crazy. It looks like some have had luck with the SPZXs in the past but that the upgrade to TE4/Hydra has stopped those from working. With your experience with the Red drive, you are saying if I do the upgrade on the OEM drive first, then pop in the new drive it may have better luck than if I put in the new drive and then upgrade? I am of course assuming that this Bolt has TE3 installed on it, I may be wrong since the listing did not say.

So to summarize I guess:

Do: TE3 with OEM HDD --> TE4 with OEM HDD --> HDD Upgrade with WD SPZX
Don't: TE3 with OEM HDD --> HDD Upgrade with WD SPZX --> TE4 with WD SPZX

Or I am thinking about this all wrong and need to shell out $150+ for the upgraded HDD?


----------



## global_dev

i think you are thinking about it right. something in the upgrade process may have affected the drive, not specifically te4


----------



## wxfisch

global_dev said:


> i think you are thinking about it right. something in the upgrade process may have affected the drive, not specifically te4


Great, I am going to pick up that HDD tonight or tomorrow, should have the cableCARD tomorrow or possibly Saturday (those FiOS guys here in Pittsburgh are awesome with how quickly they deliver equipment) and will report back with what I find out.


----------



## multiple

JustJohn7 said:


> I would think a TiVo writing 4 or more streams 24 hours a days and an SSD are a bad match for longevity. How long did the SSD work for you?


I calculated a 2TB drive with 4 continuous streams should last a minimum of 9.6 days for one drive write or 3.96yrs for 150 full drive writes (150 is worst case, most drives last at least that long, many closer to 300 drive writes). I put my TiVo to sleep, so I hope the drive writes are shut off in that scenario. So I think it should last over 5yrs, maybe as much as 10-11 years if the TiVo is only awake and actively recording only a third of the time. I've been running with the 2TB SSD drive for about 6 months without a hiccup until the TE4 update. I'll check the SMART counters sometime soon, but I've put the drive back on a PC and then again on a TiVo for the TE3/4 tests and have not run into any issue other than it not working under TE4. If my calculations are correct the drive should have used around 12-15% of its useful life, even if all 4 tuners are actively recording 100% of the time.

I'm hoping to use a 4TB SSD soon which should double the lifetime. Under the SSD, boot times and software updates under the SSD were significantly faster. It was kind of amazing to see the percentage counter incrementing so fast that you could not read it, whereas under a hard drive it would take minutes to reach 100%. I didn't time application launches, but I did not notice any significant differences from the hard drive. Snappiness of screen refreshes in certain situations was much better, but in general not noticeable. The biggest change was on temperature and quiteness.

7.68TB SSD from Micron are dropping in price very rapidly and would make for a real 2.5in drive with awesome capacity. They are still a bit over $1K, but I think we'll see them reach $1K in a few months. The Micron 2TB SSD drive I bought at Rakuten which I used for the TiVo, runs about $230 with their regular 20% off coupons. If you can catch a 25 or 30% off coupon, these 2TB SSD are a steal. So 8TB worth of SSD runs about $900 using the 20% off coupons, just not with a single drive.


----------



## multiple

wxfisch said:


> So to summarize I guess:
> 
> Do: TE3 with OEM HDD --> TE4 with OEM HDD --> HDD Upgrade with WD SPZX
> Don't: TE3 with OEM HDD --> HDD Upgrade with WD SPZX --> TE4 with WD SPZX
> 
> Or I am thinking about this all wrong and need to shell out $150+ for the upgraded HDD?


It will be interesting to see what you find out, but I haven't been able to get my WD SPZX to work under TE4.


----------



## elorimer

wxfisch said:


> Or I am thinking about this all wrong and need to shell out $150+ for the upgraded HDD?


Bolt + 4TB NPVZ + TE4 was a no-go for me, downgrade to TE3 works fine.

TE3 -> HDD Upgrade -> TE4 upgrade, or TE3->TE4->HDD Upgrade, didn't matter.


----------



## wxfisch

multiple said:


> It will be interesting to see what you find out, but I haven't been able to get my WD SPZX to work under TE4.


So I was able to test this out last night. I setup the Bolt just OTA, with the OEM HDD installed. Turns out it was already on TE4 (RC4 if it matters) and everything went just fine. I replaced the drive with the SPZX and it got stuck at the Starting Up... screen. I gave it a good half hour thinking that perhaps that was where it was formatting the drive. After a good half hour I broke down, tried restarting, tried with kickstart 54 and got nothing as others have. Popped the old drive back in and it booted back up no problem.

I am going to confirm the drive is good tonight, I may try pre-formatting it this weekend and try again but as others have found this not to work I am just as likely to return the drive to Best Buy and order the NPVZ and just swallow the increased cost to get the capacity we want. I have been told that I am allowed to play with it until the cableCARD comes since we are still using the FiOS STB, once the Bolt becomes our STB it needs to just work.


----------



## elorimer

Don't expect a 4TB NPVZ to work.


----------



## global_dev

this was a 2tb?

does MSFR recognize it as a tivo drive?

was it on the latest S/W update?


----------



## wxfisch

global_dev said:


> this was a 2tb?
> 
> does MSFR recognize it as a tivo drive?
> 
> was it on the latest S/W update?


Yes, this was a 2TB, I have not done anything other than what was in my post earlier, so have not tried MSFR yet, that may be something to try this evening. As far as I can tell the Bolt in on the latest update. Based on other posts here an on Reddit I am not counting on this working in all reality, I was hopeful as it was a cheaper drive and was available in store. That said I was able to find a relatively inexpensive NPVZ drive on eBay that should be here next weekend (was listed for $135, made an offer for $115, so not too much more than the $89 for the drive I have).

I really appreciate the advice here.


----------



## ncbill

So I've got the recommended 3TB WD drive.

Can I just install it into my brand new Bolt Vox (in place of the 500GB OEM drive) & go from there?

I'd be downgrading from Hydra ASAP.


----------



## JoeKustra

ncbill said:


> So I've got the recommended 3TB WD drive.
> Can I just install it into my brand new Bolt Vox (in place of the 500GB OEM drive) & go from there?
> I'd be downgrading from Hydra ASAP.


Rollback after you change the drive. A new drive might install TE4.


----------



## elorimer

I had to downgrade on the original drive before installing the new drive for it to install TE3. If it was on TE4, it would install TE4 and freeze. Doesn't it install its last state?


----------



## CIR-Engineering

JoeKustra said:


> Rollback after you change the drive. A new drive might install TE4.





elorimer said:


> I had to downgrade on the original drive before installing the new drive for it to install TE3. If it was on TE4, it would install TE4 and freeze. Doesn't it install its last state?


In my experience changing the hard drive does not result in the TiVo updating from TE3 to TE4. Whatever version was on before the swap stays.

craigr


----------



## dwl2

Thank you for this post with pictures and your follow up posts.
Thanks to you my upgrade, (just like yours) (8tb) (hole in back for the same type sata cables you got), is coming right alone.
I am retired and this is my project (one of many) for fun.
There are many other posts that help out too, but yours should be part some type of a of a sticky thread.
Thank You!



Tivogre said:


> I'm finally taking the plunge on an 8TB External Drive for the Bolt + !!!
> 
> Got the recommended Rosewill RX304-APU-35B enclosure and installed an 8TB WD Drive shucked from an easystore ($169 at Best Buy last week).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First step was to cut out a small section of the air intake vent to allow a SATA extension cable (1 male end and 1 female end) to exit the rear of the case:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then, I found a path to run a SATA cable out of the Bolt case, and secured the cable with wire ties to the fan mount screw:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, drilled two 3/8" holes and carefully connected then with a Dremel (back of the Bolt case, just to the right of the metal plate):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Extension cable from drive enclosure mated to SATA cable from the Bolt:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Up and running with 1279HD hours.
> 
> Currently applying updates (probably Hydra)...


----------



## kdc914

fis said:


> Yep. For what it's worth, I was running my Bolt on a 4TB WD Red drive. I accepted the upgrade to the "new experience" 4, and the Bolt crashed. Swapping in the original 500GB drive didn't fix things. I got a replacement "renewed" Bolt from TiVO, hooked it up to the 4TB drive before even booting it up, and it started up immediately with the new experience 4.
> So my sample of 1 suggests that the issue was with the upgrade process -- not with any long term drive compatibility bogeyman.


4TB WD Red is a 3.5" drive, yes? So I presume you cable to an external case for the drive? Or is there actually room for a 3.5" drive inside the Bolt but they ship with 2.5"?


----------



## elorimer

Mine was the 2.5" version 4TB WD Red.


----------



## kdc914

elorimer said:


> Mine was the 2.5" version 4TB WD Red.


hmm... Perhaps WD quit making that. Even on WD's own website, the red series only has one 2.5" and that's a 1TB. :-(


----------



## idontknowhowtotype

Other forums have stated that the 3tb Toshiba is a good hard drive to use if replacing/upgrading the Tivo. I put one in our Tivo Bolt yesterday after going for a year with the four flashing lights and having to unplug the box for a few seconds to get it going again. After putting in the Toshiba 3tb it downloaded the software and came up and everything is working fine so far. Time will tell. Here's a link to the Toshiba hard drive: Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3.0TB 2.5-inch 15.0mm SATA... at MacSales.com


----------



## fis

kdc914 said:


> 4TB WD Red is a 3.5" drive, yes? So I presume you cable to an external case for the drive? Or is there actually room for a 3.5" drive inside the Bolt but they ship with 2.5"?


Correct. It's a 3.5" drive. I had a terrible experience with the Toshiba 3TB drive and an even worse experience with Toshiba's warranty, so I moved up to the WD Red. My Bolt is in a cabinet, so I wasn't concerned with appearances.

Using a 3.5" is easy. I just removed the Bolt's cover, left the original 500GB drive completely in place, unplugged the SATA cable, and ran a different SATA cable to the 3.5" drive.

You can use an enclosure, but anything that provides power to the drive will do the trick just as well.


----------



## ncbill

Can I still downgrade from Hydra if I upgrade the drive on a Tivo Bolt Vox 500GB?

Got it on a promotion & just got in one of the recommended 2.5", 3TB drives to upgrade it, but I won't if I'm stuck with Hydra.


----------



## Mikeguy

ncbill said:


> Can I still downgrade from Hydra if I upgrade the drive on a Tivo Bolt Vox 500GB?
> 
> Got it on a promotion & just got in one of the recommended 2.5", 3TB drives to upgrade it, but I won't if I'm stuck with Hydra.


Yep.


----------



## multiple

Just purchased 3 5 GB Seagate Barracuda ST5000LMO to replace all my 4 GB WD drives that all failed on the latest TE4 update. Rakuten has them for $129 - 15% using a coupon. Seems to be working ok so far. I think this is now the largest PMR 2.5" drive.


----------



## dilsingh

When using an external 3.5 HDD With the TIVO bolt in a self-powered enclosure, what is the maximum size of the SATA drive that one can use?

Specifically, can one use a 10 TB drive ?


----------



## global_dev

dilsingh said:


> When using an external 3.5 HDD With the TIVO bolt in a self-powered enclosure, what is the maximum size of the SATA drive that one can use?
> 
> Specifically, can one use a 10 TB drive ?


good to go for 8tb, i think someon tried to expand to 10, but can't recall outcome

check the msfr thread MFS Reformatter (mfsr)


----------



## Kishore

I am on TE4 -- now using 5TB Seagate 2.5" which replaced 4TB WD (and was not working on TE4). So far no issues  

Bought 10TB Easystore on ebay today- may go external but I will have to revert to TE3.

Regards,
Kishore


----------



## dilsingh

Kishore said:


> I am on TE4 -- now using 5TB Seagate 2.5" which replaced 4TB WD (and was not working on TE4). So far no issues
> 
> Bought 10TB Easystore on ebay today- may go external but I will have to revert to TE3.
> 
> Regards,
> Kishore


Kishore I have a 10TB external HDD with its own Power supply that I may try one of these days. However, I am not familiar with the TE3 terminology. I have a TIVO Bolt which I bought from Tivo about 6 months ago. The company is working on a 14 TB HDD, and I think that one day we will have huge capacity Solid State drives, well over 14 TB, but these will be expensive!


----------



## Kishore

TE4 is latest UI/App -not sure if you have it already enabled by default (or you activated app on Tivo- new experience) typically 21.8.3.x (on my bolt). TE3 earlier version 20.7.x I believe. TE4 has new UI which is snappy (and I prefer) but there are pros/cons based on what you did before (or used to). You can downgrade from TE4 to TE3 or update from TE3 to TE4 but you will lose all your recordings on the drive in either of this step.

You can look up @Tivogre detailed posting above/earlier on using extended sata cable connected to 8TB HD drive.

Regards,
Kishore


----------



## toricred

Kishore said:


> TE4 is latest UI/App -not sure if you have it already enabled by default (or you activated app on Tivo- new experience) typically 21.8.3.x (on my bolt). TE3 earlier version 20.7.x I believe. TE4 has new UI which is snappy (and I prefer) but there are pros/cons based on what you did before (or used to). You can downgrade from TE4 to TE3 or update from TE3 to TE4 but you will lose all your recordings on the drive in either of this step.
> 
> You can look up @Tivogre detailed posting above/earlier on using extended sata cable connected to 8TB HD drive.
> 
> Regards,
> Kishore


You only lose the recordings when downgrading from TE4 to TE3. The other way the recordings are preserved.


----------



## elorimer

toricred said:


> You only lose the recordings when downgrading from TE4 to TE3. The other way the recordings are preserved.


Yes, but you want to pull recordings off before you upgrade to TE4. If you put in a new drive, upgrade, and it doesn't work, then you have to downgrade again and everything is lost. You have to be prepared to lose everything...


----------



## shwru980r

With the bolt, once you replace the current drive with a new drive, you can never access the recordings from the previous drive ever again. If you reinstall the previous drive, the bolt will format the drive and you will lose all the recordings.


----------



## jccfin

Do we still need to run the MFSR for Bolt 2TB updates or can we just put in the new drive and it will work?


----------



## ggieseke

jccfin said:


> Do we still need to run the MFSR for Bolt 2TB updates or can we just put in the new drive and it will work?


You don't need MFSR for drives up to 3TB.


----------



## JohnnyO

Toshiba drive from MacSales/OWC ordered! Thanks for the thread, everyone.


----------



## jccfin

ggieseke said:


> You don't need MFSR for drives up to 3TB.


Is there a sticky where it lists all of the current working hard drive replacements? I want to make sure that I buy the correct 2TB drive. Thanks.


----------



## mdcubsfan

So is there a consensus on what is better and or easier and or less troublesome for down the road? The Toshiba 3tb or a larger external drive? Really just want a one time fix and don’t think about it again - I think 3tb would be more than I could ever fill it with....


----------



## randian

The WD20NPVZ is more expensive than the 3TB Toshiba. BH Photo claims the WD is a discontinued model. What in WD's lineup replaces it?

I can't fill up a 2TB drive, so 3TB doesn't do much for me. Is there a smaller version of the Toshiba appropriate for a DVR application?


----------



## Mikeguy

randian said:


> The WD20NPVZ is more expensive than the 3TB Toshiba. BH Photo claims the WD is a discontinued model. What in WD's lineup replaces it?
> 
> I can't fill up a 2TB drive, so 3TB doesn't do much for me. Is there a smaller version of the Toshiba appropriate for a DVR application?


I believe that the 3TB Toshiba model also comes in 1TB and 2TB flavors.


----------



## Mikeguy

mdcubsfan said:


> So is there a consensus on what is better and or easier and or less troublesome for down the road? The Toshiba 3tb or a larger external drive? Really just want a one time fix and don't think about it again - I think 3tb would be more than I could ever fill it with....


Doesn't adding an external drive offer more potential failure points?


----------



## el-such-n-such

Mikeguy said:


> Doesn't adding an external drive offer more potential failure points?


1 additional cable, and 1 additional power plug to power the drive, same number of drives, right?
You have to be mindful of this, if you can't depend that you/others will be, then yes, there is additional risk that needs to be accepted. But if you can mount it safely and be mindful, I don't consider it a huge issue.


----------



## texasPI

el-such-n-such said:


> 1 additional cable, and 1 additional power plug to power the drive, same number of drives, right?
> You have to be mindful of this, if you can't depend that you/others will be, then yes, there is additional risk that needs to be accepted. But if you can mount it safely and be mindful, I don't consider it a huge issue.


Will an external 3.5" drive sleep when the TiVo enters standby?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## el-such-n-such

texasPI said:


> Will an external 3.5" drive sleep when the TiVo enters standby?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you install the eSATA cable to the correct internal port, then the external drive is connected exactly the same as the internal drive. So the operation on the SATA bus will be identical regardless of where the drive is physically located.

Does the Tivo forcibly power-down the internal drive, when the owner puts the device in Standby?
I confess, that I don't know the answer to this question, and am happy to learn it.

When I investigated disk activity on older series Tivos, the computer was *always* writing video to disk, so I expect this to continue to be the case, but am happy to learn this answer as well.

If the answer is "no", then the operation of an internal and external drive will be the same (unless someone physically powers the external drive down when the Tivo is powered, which is one of the risks you need to accept if you are going to operate like this).


----------



## jccfin

Has anyone opened a WD external portable HD to find out if they stuck a WD20NPVZ inside? Perhaps there's a particular model that has those drives. We can then just buy that and take it out of the cases. They're usually cheaper to boot. I wonder which drive is inside this? 
https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Portable-External-Photography-STDR2000102/


----------



## zhelder

Hi gang. I just bought two all-in Bolts and want to upgrade the hard drives. Honestly, my mind is completely blown over how scarce and expensive compatible drives are. Does anyone know if the WDBMYH0020BNC is a good choice? It’s substantially cheaper than the WD20NPVZ, but information is so scarce on these drives I can’t figure out why. If the WDBMYH0020BNC is a dud, then I’ll probably get the Toshiba. 

TiVO’s really been approaching Apple levels of nefariousness lately. I never thought it would be this difficult to upgrade the hard drive. Thanks for any advice.


----------



## Tony_T

Expensive ($200 for 2T, $300 for 3T):
Weaknees TiVo Upgrade Kits and Hard Drives


----------



## rad99

My experience with WD drives has been poor. However, WD has been great at replacing them under warranty. Each time of a warranty claim it has been painless, but have to wait about two weeks to get a new drive back. 

I started with WD20 upgrade and after two months, the Tivo reset itself during viewing, playback had pixelation errors and dropouts, skip or fast forward was very slow, browsing recordings was slow. So, I sent the drive to WD and received a WD30. After a couple of months, same issue. Sent the drive back and received a new WD30. Placed the TiVo on a notebook cooling pad with fan. The ODT is around 50-55. Yet, the drive started having the same issues after a month. Will try the Toshiba one now.


----------



## Tony_T

rad99 said:


> My experience with WD drives has been poor. However, WD has been great at replacing them under warranty. Each time of a warranty claim it has been painless, but have to wait about two weeks to get a new drive back.
> 
> I started with WD20 upgrade and after two months, the Tivo reset itself during viewing, playback had pixelation errors and dropouts, skip or fast forward was very slow, browsing recordings was slow. So, I sent the drive to WD and received a WD30. After a couple of months, same issue. Sent the drive back and received a new WD30. Placed the TiVo on a notebook cooling pad with fan. The ODT is around 50-55. Yet, the drive started having the same issues after a month. Will try the Toshiba one now.


WD20&#8230;. NPVZ or SPZX?


----------



## jccfin

It looks like the Amazon $140 deal for the WD20NPVZ is back in stock.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071NLR34Z


----------



## tommage1

rad99 said:


> My experience with WD drives has been poor. However, WD has been great at replacing them under warranty. Each time of a warranty claim it has been painless, but have to wait about two weeks to get a new drive back.
> 
> I started with WD20 upgrade and after two months, the Tivo reset itself during viewing, playback had pixelation errors and dropouts, skip or fast forward was very slow, browsing recordings was slow. So, I sent the drive to WD and received a WD30. After a couple of months, same issue. Sent the drive back and received a new WD30. Placed the TiVo on a notebook cooling pad with fan. The ODT is around 50-55. Yet, the drive started having the same issues after a month. Will try the Toshiba one now.


Try a PMR 3.5" drive in an external enclosure. Connected directly to the Sata port on the Bolt MB. Use the power in the external enclosure, not the Bolt power connection, it is not enough for a 3.5 drive. . Not an Esata enclosure, one where you can connect power and Sata connections to the drive individually. If you stick with 3TB or less the Bolt will format it for you with no additional work. Have to make SURE you have a PMR drive though, not SMR.


----------



## tommage1

About the external enclosure, the only things it is being used for is to hold the drive and the power. So ANY external enclosure with separate drive and power connections will be ok. I actually used an old IDE external case, just used a molex to Sata adapter for the power part, and obviously a Sata connection from the Bolt MB to the drive, I just disconnected the small IDE cable in the enclosure.


----------



## tommage1

Here are some pictures. Right now though I am using the power from the external enclosure I don't have the drive inserted as am running tests on different drives. The Sata cable from the Bolt MB, I actually use two cables, they connect in the middle (M/F connections) so can disconnect the external from the Bolt easily. The Sata cable coming out of the Bolt, if you want to put the cover completely back on you could either put a couple shims on each side of the cable to keep it from getting pinched, or just trim the Bolt case.


----------



## wkm001

The 3TB Toshiba drive has some really poor reviews for Bolt use. 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017O266UE/

What is the current 2TB or 3TB recommended drive?


----------



## Tony_T

wkm001 said:


> The 3TB Toshiba drive has some really poor reviews for Bolt use.
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017O266UE/
> 
> What is the current *2TB* or 3TB recommended drive?


2T: WD20NPVZ


----------



## Mikeguy

wkm001 said:


> The 3TB Toshiba drive has some really poor reviews for Bolt use.
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017O266UE/
> 
> What is the current 2TB or 3TB recommended drive?


And yet, at least in the past, it has been the most consistently recommended replacement drive here.


----------



## shwru980r

wkm001 said:


> The 3TB Toshiba drive has some really poor reviews for Bolt use.
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017O266UE/
> 
> What is the current 2TB or 3TB recommended drive?


Only 10 total reviews. 4 were drive failures. Too few reviews to make a judgment, in my opinion.


----------



## Mikeguy

shwru980r said:


> Only 10 total reviews. 4 were drive failures. Too few reviews to make a judgment, in my opinion.


I could swear that there was another Amazon listing earlier, with many more reviews and more positives. The 2 reviews at MacSales.com are 5-stars, with one mentioning TiVo use.


----------



## JohnnyO

wkm001 said:


> The 3TB Toshiba drive has some really poor reviews for Bolt use.
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017O266UE/


That listing only has 10 reviews. Hard to get a reading on such a small sample size. Remember too, those that don't have issues are much less likely to post a review.

Admitting a bit of confirmation bias, but I did buy the 3TB Toshiba from Other World Computing/MacSales. We shall see how it does over time.


----------



## V7Goose

I have had the 3 TB Toshiba in a Bolt for 2 years without a single problem so far. That Bolt is ONLY running TE3, and I will NOT ever install TE4 on it as long as I have a choice.

Do note that many Bolts that were working fine with upgraded drives suddenly refused to boot after last year's TE4 update. I do not know which drive models have been documented with this problem, and it is not worth my time to look them up, but there are many threads here about the problem. In virtually every case I remember, reverting the Bolt to TE3 solved the problem, proving that the issue was NOT with the drives. Perhaps some of those bad reviews were caused by TiVo TE4 garbage software and not the drives?


----------



## Mikeguy

V7Goose said:


> I have had the 3 TB Toshiba in a Bolt for 2 years without a single problem so far. That Bolt is ONLY running TE3, and I will NOT ever install TE4 on it as long as I have a choice.
> 
> Do note that many Bolts that were working fine with upgraded drives suddenly refused to boot after last year's TE4 update. I do not know which drive models have been documented with this problem, and it is not worth my time to look them up, but there are many threads here about the problem. In virtually every case I remember, reverting the Bolt to TE3 solved the problem, proving that the issue was NOT with the drives. Perhaps some of those bad reviews were caused by TiVo TE4 garbage software and not the drives?


My recollection and understanding from posts at the time is that this was affecting certain non-Toshiba drives--I generally was not seeing the issue being reported as to the Toshiba 3TB.


----------



## Dschelsea82

I upgraded the Bolt with a 3tb WD30EZRX in an external enclosure. The drive has its own power. I shaved down the end of the sata cable, pulled back the plastic and metal of the tivo and pushed it through and over the USB. Better than cutting into the case and voiding the warranty. Took about 20 min.


----------



## jrinco11

Dschelsea82 said:


> I upgraded the Bolt with a 3tb WD30EZRX in an external enclosure. The drive has its own power. I shaved down the end of the sata cable, pulled back the plastic and metal of the tivo and pushed it through and over the USB. Better than cutting into the case and voiding the warranty. Took about 20 min.


ah thanks for that info! Been debating looking for a 2.5" drive, hoping it works, etc vs cutting the case (and losing warranty) and going with an ext 3.5" -- your way is just what I was hoping to find a way to do!


----------



## jrinco11

in fact, which external cases are you guys using for 3.5" drives? I can't seem to find any that have a separate connection for data and power, meaning, can't find any that would allow running a sata cable separate from power (case powers the drive, then use your own sata cable from tivo->drive)?

edit: re-reading through this thread - looks like finding an IDE enclosure is the way to go, since that necessarily needs two separate connections for data and power


----------



## rdrrepair

Tony_T said:


> 2T: WD20NPVZ


 yep, got this one in mine, rock solid.


----------



## JHawk

Been reading through this and other threads and need some help...
My current setup is Bolt and 1TB DVR expander. My wife's love for the Hallmark channels has led to the drives on occasion getting to 80% or more. When that happens the picture becomes quite pixelated. I have no faith in the DVR expander as I had one catch on fire that was hooked to another tivo. So here's my questions...
1) I understand the preferred upgrade is the 3TB Toshiba drive (damn they seem pricey) done internally. I've done a Roamio upgrade so I'm certain I can do this. I realize I need to transfer all her recorded shows before doing this upgrade.
2) If I decide to go the external drive route I'm still not certain about which hard drive to use. If I go over 3TB do I have to reformat the drive? Am I correct I have to bypass the esata port on the back of the Bolt and plug directly into the motherboard for that to work. I believe I read that someone loosened the back and top of the Bolt and plugged the the cable into the motherboard. How hard is that to do? Can someone explain that in detail?
3) Would something like this work as an external drive? https://www.bestbuy.com/site/wd-eas...-3-0-hard-drive-black/5792401.p?skuId=5792401
TIA,
JHawk


----------



## krkaufman

JHawk said:


> 2) If I decide to go the external drive route I'm still not certain about which hard drive to use. If I go over 3TB do I have to reformat the drive? Am I correct I have to bypass the esata port on the back of the Bolt and plug directly into the motherboard for that to work. I believe I read that someone loosened the back and top of the Bolt and plugged the the cable into the motherboard. How hard is that to do? Can someone explain that in detail?
> 3) Would something like this work as an external drive? https://www.bestbuy.com/site/wd-eas...-3-0-hard-drive-black/5792401.p?skuId=5792401


The drive that is INSIDE that WD easystore *might* be usable, but the external won't be usable as-is, since it's a USB connection. You'll need a direct SATA connection between the drive and the SATA port on the BOLT motherboard.

And, yes, use of any drive over 3TB will require use of MFS Reformatter to format the drive.

You may want to review:

Tivo Bolt with Esata cable added
On the way to an external HDD for my Tivo Bolt, a funny thing happened!!

Storage dock/cable suggestions for Bolt
And strictly for sport:

Instructions: Adding eSATAp connector to BOLT (tech)


----------



## JHawk

kr....thank you for your timely and insightful response. I really appreciate it! After reading the suggested material it is clear to me that I'll bite the bullet and do the internal drive. It looks very similar to the Roamio update I did. I'll stick with the 3TB so no reformating. Plus now that Hallmark has booted Lori Loughlin maybe the number of shows to record will go down  Thanks again!


----------



## NIN7474

Hi everyone. 
Been following this thread because I got in on the March Madness deal. Receiving a Bolt Vox 500gb All-in soon. 
I would like to upgrade it to the WD 2tb WD20NPVZ that everyone recommends but I can only find it used/like new on Amazon for $164. 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071NLR34Z/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_j1tMCb1JDE9GV
Do you think I should get it used/like new or another 2tb HD that some can recommend for the Bolt Vox. 
(Has a Roamio that I upgraded years ago so i'm kinda familiar with doing this)


----------



## Tony_T

That's a lot for a used drive. The WD20NPVZ was ~ $120 new.
Guess they're hard to come by now.

Another option is to pay extra ($200) and get a new 2T from weaknees TiVo Bolt Line (Including VOX, Plus, and OTA) TiVo Upgrade Kits and Hard Drives


----------



## NIN7474

Tony_T said:


> That's a lot for a used drive. The WD20NPVZ was ~ $120 new.
> Guess they're hard to come by now.
> 
> Another option is to pay extra ($200) and get a new 2T from weaknees TiVo Bolt Line (Including VOX, Plus, and OTA) TiVo Upgrade Kits and Hard Drives


That's what I thought also for a used HD. 
Someone else mentioned I can get a WD 1tb instead. 
This blue one
WD Blue 1TB https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C9TEBJQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_s6uMCb9ZBRA0V
Or this red one
WD Red 1TB NAS Hard Disk Drive - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EHBES1U/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_P8uMCbP9BJ9GP
So that would be a cheaper option but obviously smaller HD. 
Opinions on going that route?


----------



## Tony_T

Those are _probably_ SMR drives and should be avoided for TiVo.


----------



## NIN7474

Tony_T said:


> Those are _probably_ SMR drives and should be avoided for TiVo.


I picked those drives because someone else here used them. That's why I think they're safe and not SMR.
Edit, found the post and asked them.


----------



## NIN7474

cherry ghost said:


> I put a WD10JPVX in my Bolt.


Is the 1tb HD still working?


----------



## NIN7474

LarryAtHome said:


> I have been using the WD10JFCX for about 6 months now with no issues. I let the TiVo go through the drive setup and guided setup. I have the older interface. (not hydra) I did not try to save any recordings or use the MSF tools. I just let TiVo do it all itself. The only thing I did do while it was open (not related to the hard disk) was to put a 100uF 25V capacitor across the fan power connector to eliminate the whine from the fan circuitry. I don't know if there are any long term effects to this, but for now it has eliminated the whine for me. The WD10JFCX and the WD10JUCT look to be the same drive with different firmware on them and are what some here recommend. One is specialized for a NAS and the other for audio/video. To me it was more what was available and for what price.


Is it still working fine?
I'm going to use Hydra though. Think that'll be a issue using the WD10JUCT?


----------



## cherry ghost

NIN7474 said:


> Is the 1tb HD still working?


Yep, two years next month. It is a PMR drive.


----------



## NIN7474

cherry ghost said:


> Yep, two years next month. It is a PMR drive.


Thanks you. Going to order and install on the renewed Bolt Vox out the box before I start it up for the first time.
Is that the best way


----------



## cherry ghost

NIN7474 said:


> Thanks you. Going to order and install on the renewed Bolt Vox our the box before I start it up for the first time.
> Is that the best way


That's what I did. I never upgraded to Hydra. Yours might install Hydra straight away.


----------



## NIN7474

cherry ghost said:


> That's what I did. I never upgraded to Hydra. Yours might install Hydra straight away.


Planning to use Hydra. And I do believe it'll be Hydra out the box.
Hope that doesn't screw up the HD upgrade.
Thank you for replying. Was waiting for confirmation on that HD to play well with the Bolt Vox. 
The 2tb is way too much for a used unit. See my posts above.


----------



## NIN7474

I can't believe they're selling the WD20NPVZ for $176 on Amazon! This is ridiculous.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071NLR34...olid=1SFY53C6MRY7B&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


----------



## Mikeguy

NIN7474 said:


> I can't believe they're selling the WD20NPVZ for $176 on Amazon! This is ridiculous.
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071NLR34...olid=1SFY53C6MRY7B&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


?


----------



## Tony_T

The drives are hard to get, and the Amazon seller knows it.


----------



## sg6969

I’ve been reading and trying to get all the info I can before I attempt a HD swap. I just purchased a 500 GB Bolt Vox form that bracket deal. I would like to replace HD with a 3TB drive. I think I will use the Toshiba (MQ03ABB300). My question is do I swap out HD first or do I need to hook up the bolt and do the setup and then swap out. Also if there is another 3TB drive that this community recommendes that info would be appreciated too.

Thank you all in advance


----------



## JoeKustra

sg6969 said:


> I've been reading and trying to get all the info I can before I attempt a HD swap. I just purchased a 500 GB Bolt Vox form that bracket deal. I would like to replace HD with a 3TB drive. I think I will use the Toshiba (MQ03ABB300). My question is do I swap out HD first or do I need to hook up the bolt and do the setup and then swap out. Also if there is another 3TB drive that this community recommendes that info would be appreciated too.
> Thank you all in advance


You really want to run it for a day or two before cracking the case. That's a general non-Bolt suggestion. After a day pull the plug too. Bolt's can become unhappy when they suffer a power failure. I always use a UPS and I don't have a Bolt.


----------



## NIN7474

sg6969 said:


> I've been reading and trying to get all the info I can before I attempt a HD swap. I just purchased a 500 GB Bolt Vox form that bracket deal. I would like to replace HD with a 3TB drive. I think I will use the Toshiba (MQ03ABB300). My question is do I swap out HD first or do I need to hook up the bolt and do the setup and then swap out. Also if there is another 3TB drive that this community recommendes that info would be appreciated too.
> 
> Thank you all in advance


I got the same Bolt Vox like you yesterday and swapped out the HD before plugging it it. 
I'm going to plug it in tomorrow and call Comcast also to pair up again. 
Fingers crossed. 
Bottom of my Bolt Vox says May 10, 2018. What does yours say?


----------



## sg6969

NIN7474 said:


> I got the same Bolt Vox like you yesterday and swapped out the HD before plugging it it.
> I'm going to plug it in tomorrow and call Comcast also to pair up again.
> Fingers crossed.
> Bottom of my Bolt Vox says May 10, 2018. What does yours say?


I don't receive mine till next Wednesday. But I will post when in arrives. Please let me know how it goes. And what HD did you use?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NIN7474

sg6969 said:


> I don't receive mine till next Wednesday. But I will post when in arrives. Please let me know how it goes. And what HD did you use?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I got this WD 1tb HD recommenced by another user here that said it worked out for him in his Bolt Vox for 2 years now.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C9TEBJQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_3H9NCb0BSH48Z


----------



## sg6969

NIN7474 said:


> I got this WD 1tb HD recommenced by another user here that said it worked out for him in his Bolt Vox for 2 years now.
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C9TEBJQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_3H9NCb0BSH48Z


I would go with that HD myself but between the wife and I, we need the bigger storage. I haven't bought the Toshiba HD yet. I want to see if ppl chime in on that before I purchase.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NIN7474

sg6969 said:


> I would go with that HD myself but between the wife and I, we need the bigger storage. I haven't bought the Toshiba HD yet. I want to see if ppl chime in on that before I purchase.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I wanted the WD 2tb but not willing to be gouged for it. See my posts above. 
I was going to get the Toshiba 3tb but the failure reports in this thread worried me.


----------



## sg6969

sg6969 said:


> I've been reading and trying to get all the info I can before I attempt a HD swap. I just purchased a 500 GB Bolt Vox form that bracket deal. I would like to replace HD with a 3TB drive. I think I will use the Toshiba (MQ03ABB300). My question is do I swap out HD first or do I need to hook up the bolt and do the setup and then swap out. Also if there is another 3TB drive that this community recommendes that info would be appreciated too.
> 
> Thank you all in advance


I forgot to mention I currently use two TiVo Premiers. So the Bolt and a TiVo mini VOX will be a nice upgrade!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NIN7474

sg6969 said:


> I forgot to mention I currently use two TiVo Premiers. So the Bolt and a TiVo mini VOX will be a nice upgrade!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm currently using a Roamio/upgraded HD and a TiVo Mini. 
Mini is connected to a 1080p plasma so I can't justify getting the Mini Vox 4k.


----------



## sg6969

NIN7474 said:


> I'm currently using a Roamio/upgraded HD and a TiVo Mini.
> Mini is connected to a 1080p plasma so I can't justify getting the Mini Vox 4k.


I just replaced my living room and bedroom with 4K Samsung's! So another reason for the TiVo upgrades.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NIN7474

sg6969 said:


> I just replaced my living room and bedroom with 4K Samsung's! So another reason for the TiVo upgrades.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Make sure you have a set of Torx screwdrivers to do the upgrade. T10 and under.


----------



## sg6969

NIN7474 said:


> Make sure you have a set of Torx screwdrivers to do the upgrade. T10 and under.


Yup, already have a set.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hamstring

I put the Toshiba 3 tb drive in. So far so good. I had the Bolt set up already and pulled the drive after I had it paired.


----------



## sg6969

Hamstring said:


> I put the Toshiba 3 tb drive in. So far so good. I had the Bolt set up already and pulled the drive after I had it paired.


Thanks for that info! Will probably buy the Toshiba drive tomorrow.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NIN7474

I'm assuming it doesn't matter if it's a Bolt or Bolt Vox with upgrading the HD?


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## NIN7474

Set up and paired my Bolt Vox with new HD. Working fine so far. Also have it connected to my Mini. Transfering shows from my Roamio to it now.


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## Tony_T

NIN7474 said:


> Make sure you have a set of Torx screwdrivers to do the upgrade. T10 and under.


This helps to open the case (but it can be removed withy it): Spudger


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## NIN7474

Tony_T said:


> This helps to open the case (but it can be removed withy it): Spudger


You'll laugh at what I used that really helped instead of a spudger. 
I used my finger nails to get a start. Then used my metal AMEX Platinum card to wedge it, then work it around the edges. It really helped loosen the tabs.


----------



## Hamstring

Yes getting the case open was annoying. The Roamio was just a drop in.


----------



## NIN7474

Hamstring said:


> Yes getting the case open was annoying. The Roamio was just a drop in.


I agree on the Roamio being easier. 
I broke 3 tabs on my Bolt Vox while swapping out the HD. But they were useless anyway. 
2 tabs on the top of the smaller shell covering the HD. And a small tab with a hole in the back of the larger shell. 
The case fit back together tightly regardless of them broken off. 
They were pretty thin. Makes me think if they were done on purpose as evidence of opening the case(warranty).


----------



## sg6969

The Premiers were very easy to open. And are built like tanks!! I keep reading how flimsy these Bolts are!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## paazel

Anyone have experience with this drive: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FRHTTIA/

I know it's Seagate so not super pumped about that....


----------



## sg6969

sg6969 said:


> Yup, already have a set.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk











Even though I already have the tools, I just purchased this kit which includes the spudger tools.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BobCamp1

Here's a good 2 TB recommendation for anybody who's looking:

Seagate Samsung Spinpoint M9T ST2000LM003 2TB 5400 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 2.5" Internal Notebook Hard Drive Bare Drive - Newegg.com


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## NIN7474

BobCamp1 said:


> Here's a good 2 TB recommendation for anybody who's looking:
> 
> Seagate Samsung Spinpoint M9T ST2000LM003 2TB 5400 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 2.5" Internal Notebook Hard Drive Bare Drive - Newegg.com


Wish i knew before i bought the WD 1tb WD10JPVX. 
Are you using this drive now and how long has it been working for you?
And you using it on Hydra?
I'm on a renewed Bolt Vox on Hydra.
I might return the 1tb and buy this if it's been working well for you.


----------



## NIN7474

sg6969 said:


> I don't receive mine till next Wednesday. But I will post when in arrives. Please let me know how it goes. And what HD did you use?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I know you won't receive your Renewed Bolt Vox till WED but please see my thread on a issue i just had this morning and curious if you encounter this later on in yours too.
Renewed Bolt Vox issue maybe


----------



## BobCamp1

NIN7474 said:


> Wish i knew before i bought the WD 1tb WD10JPVX.
> Are you using this drive now and how long has it been working for you?
> And you using it on Hydra?
> I'm on a renewed Bolt Vox on Hydra.
> I might return the 1tb and buy this if it's been working well for you.


I used it for a friend's Tivo. So far, so good after four months. I did note the comments about the failures, but they don't look any worse than other models.

It's tough to find 2.5 inch drives over 1 TB in size that use PMR that are also reliable. Just in case anybody else is looking, you want to avoid a drive with "SMR", "thin", "backup", or "128 MB cache" in its description. You'll also want to avoid SSHD drives.

But ultimately I'd just replace the Bolt hard drive with a 1 TB hard drive and transfer the shows off the Tivo onto a large capacity hard drive. *That* hard drive can be SMR if needed.


----------



## NIN7474

BobCamp1 said:


> I used it for a friend's Tivo. So far, so good after four months. I did note the comments about the failures, but they don't look any worse than other models.
> 
> It's tough to find 2.5 inch drives over 1 TB in size that use PMR that are also reliable. Just in case anybody else is looking, you want to avoid a drive with "SMR", "thin", "backup", or "128 MB cache" in its description. You'll also want to avoid SSHD drives.
> 
> But ultimately I'd just replace the Bolt hard drive with a 1 TB hard drive and transfer the shows off the Tivo onto a large capacity hard drive. *That* hard drive can be SMR if needed.


Thanks. I think i'll stick with my WD 1tb then.
Can you explain to me how to "transfer the shows off the Tivo onto a large capacity hard drive. *That* hard drive can be SMR if needed"?
I'm very interested in going that route since I have a 1tb HD internally. 
Thanks


----------



## BobCamp1

NIN7474 said:


> Thanks. I think i'll stick with my WD 1tb then.
> Can you explain to me how to "transfer the shows off the Tivo onto a large capacity hard drive. *That* hard drive can be SMR if needed"?
> I'm very interested in going that route since I have a 1tb HD internally.
> Thanks


You can use third-party programs such as pyTivo and kmttg. The first one is simpler to use, but the second one has more features. They allow you to pull non-copy protected material from your Tivo to your PC. Some cable markets copy protect almost everything, but some (like FIOS) only copy protect the premium and Fox channels.

These programs will also decrypt the files, so you can then watch them using any media player. Just Google the names of these programs.


----------



## sg6969

NIN7474 said:


> I know you won't receive your Renewed Bolt Vox till WED but please see my thread on a issue i just had this morning and curious if you encounter this later on in yours too.
> Renewed Bolt Vox issue maybe


I will definitely keep you posted!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sg6969

Is anyone running Hydra with the 3TB Toshiba HD? And any pros or cons running Hydra with the Toshiba? HD and Bolt arrive this Wed and just want to get all the info I can before the HD swap. 

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hamstring

sg6969 said:


> Is anyone running Hydra with the 3TB Toshiba HD? And any pros or cons running Hydra with the Toshiba? HD and Bolt arrive this Wed and just want to get all the info I can before the HD swap.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, for a few weeks now. It's great. Faster than my Roamio that's also on Hydra.


----------



## sg6969

Hamstring said:


> Yes, for a few weeks now. It's great. Faster than my Roamio that's also on Hydra.


That's good to hear! Did you do the guide setup first then the HD swap? I'm still trying to decide which route to go?

Thanks

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hamstring

sg6969 said:


> That's good to hear! Did you do the guide setup first then the HD swap? I'm still trying to decide which route to go?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I did. I had it set up and paired with Comcast. Then I took it down and swapped the drive. Everything worked fine. It's a cheaper looking/feeling device but more solid.


----------



## sg6969

NIN7474 said:


> I got the same Bolt Vox like you yesterday and swapped out the HD before plugging it it.
> I'm going to plug it in tomorrow and call Comcast also to pair up again.
> Fingers crossed.
> Bottom of my Bolt Vox says May 10, 2018. What does yours say?


I received my Bolt today and the date on my box says April 12, 2018

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NIN7474

sg6969 said:


> I received my Bolt today and the date on my box says April 12, 2018
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. So I guess most Renewed Bolt Vox's are about a year old. 
I paired up my Comcast Cablecard online at 1am and it worked.
Good luck with the 3tb HD upgrade. My 1tb has been fine so far except that one issue. I think it was because of it being on High Power Saving mode.


----------



## sg6969

NIN7474 said:


> Thanks. So I guess most Renewed Bolt Vox's are about a year old.
> I paired up my Comcast Cablecard online at 1am and it worked.
> Good luck with the 3tb HD upgrade. My 1tb has been fine so far except that one issue. I think it was because of it being on High Power Saving mode.


I'm setting it up as I type! I'm going to setup and run it for a day or two, then do the swap. I'm glad yours worked out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sg6969

Well everything went well! TiVo setup was a breeze. I did have about a 40 min telephone conversation with Spectrum regarding re-pairing the cable card from my Premier to the Bolt. But it ended up getting done. So I’m happy! Will do the HD swap on Friday or Sat. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ravingfans

ok, so I received my Bolt Vox and a Seagate Barracuda 5TB Drive that I intended to set up for The Rib's parents, but then the HDD upgrade choices seem so limited, that I think I'm going to order the Roamio 6 tuner instead and send this one back. 

Somebody talk me out of this decision today please? 

Number one goal for me is to have a very low maintenance trouble free device--they are in their 80's, and too much of this thread talks about the troubles with Seagate drives, difficulty of finding the WD drives, etc. I'm not excited about having to drill a hole in the new case to run a cable to an external drive case...


----------



## lamont

zhelder said:


> Hi gang. I just bought two all-in Bolts and want to upgrade the hard drives. Honestly, my mind is completely blown over how scarce and expensive compatible drives are. Does anyone know if the WDBMYH0020BNC is a good choice? It's substantially cheaper than the WD20NPVZ, but information is so scarce on these drives I can't figure out why. If the WDBMYH0020BNC is a dud, then I'll probably get the Toshiba.


For what it's worth, I just installed the WDBMYH0020BNC in a TiVo Bolt+ and it's performing well. This was actually a downgrade from the 3TB WD Blue WD30NPRZ that came stock with the Bolt+. That drive died after just 18 months of use and the 2TB WD Blue was the best I could find on short notice from a local retailer.

Update May 22, 2019: After 7 weeks the Bolt+ began acting up while recording and playing back from the WDBMYH0020BNC drive. It's clearly a disk problem but I can't definitively blame the WD Blue. Maybe this TiVo is defective and will kill any drive inserted. I'm done with it and will exchange the whole unit.


----------



## ClefCruiser

At one place in the forum it was mentioned about a green mode needing to be disabled that stopped drive parking- Is this still a thing? I just took advantage of the Bolt OTA promo (-0- down, $14.95/mo for 2yrs) and am finally looking at eventually moving away from my 2 Premier boxes, XL and std, both HDD upgraded, and amazingly still going! I am looking at the OTA as my path away from cable to streaming and broadcast - I ordered the Toshiba 3tB from MacSales, as the 23 pages here suggest while some have had trouble, it seems to be the overall best option, and it was only $147 2-day shipping- I will start this dude out in my ToyHauler/RV (which stays on my LAN when parked at home- so I can transfer recordings to it from the Premier-XL) And moving the Std Premier into the house (from the RV) until I shut it on down. At some point if this cord-cut goes well, I might look at another Bolt and do the external drive, 8tb option with it, especially if the XL dies. Has anyone added the cablecard slot to an OTA yet? Is that even an option?


----------



## ClefCruiser

So the back in April, pulled the trigger on the Bolt-OTA promo- their 1tb OTA for $14.95/mo x24 mo, did the 3tb toshiba drive and it worked so well I went ahead and jumped on the Bolt-VOX promo that followed, also in April. I ended up doing the 8tb WD-Purple in an external enclosure, I use it to "collect" all the programming and then transfer (what isn't copy-protected) to the OTA in the RV- it all works GREAT! but I think the HUGE lists of programming are screwing with the TiVo Online app! I have had to reset the "to-do" and guide list on the OTA once because it quit taking the transfers! But even so, It is sure a great setup!


----------



## sg6969

I finally did the HD swap! It went well following the video on YouTube! It’s booting up now. I had to call Spectrum to re-pair the cable card. And that went surprisingly well! Here are two pics showing the increase in HD space. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JoeKustra

Your old drive shows your TSN. That's not a good idea.


----------



## sg6969

JoeKustra said:


> Your old drive shows your TSN. That's not a good idea.


Thanks I didn't see that.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## regor101

For anyone interested in 2TB HDD for Bolt: Amazon is selling Western Digital Blue Mobile 2.5 Internal Bare/OEM Drive WD20NPVZ for $75.00.(Only 14 left in stock - order soon)

https://www.amazon.com/Internal-inc...rive+WD20NPVZ&qid=1562865741&s=gateway&sr=8-1


----------



## krkaufman

regor101 said:


> For anyone interested in 2TB HDD for Bolt: Amazon is selling Western Digital Blue Mobile 2.5 Internal Bare/OEM Drive WD20NPVZ for $75.00.(Only 14 left in stock - order soon)


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079BQS5WQ/


----------



## leiff

Thanks for the link to the 2 terabyte drive on Amazon for $75. I picked the same drive up from Amazon around this price last year for one of my two bolts.
Did I hear they stopped making these things? Does that mean if I don't buy now im unlikely to find another sale 4 similar Drive later? I'd rather have larger size Drive but the only one I hear about is the Toshiba which seems very hard to come by? I know there's other threads about it, but how hard is it to get external enclosure for 3.5 size drives which are much cheaper and more reliable?Secondarily I'm wondering if now is a good time to pick up one of these as a spare for my parents bolt + in case their internal 3 tb Drive fails. Wondering if anyone knows if it's likely to see similar prices again anytime soon for this drive after these are gone?


----------



## Mikeguy

When I checked a few weeks back, the Toshiba 2.5" 3TB drive (no longer being manufactured) still could be found, albeit not at the old stand-by places, and the price is a bit more now.

Per TiVo earlier, one of the reasons it is not currently selling the 3TB Bolt is that the original WD drive no longer is available and TiVo has not sourced a replacement. WeaKnees still has the drive, as part of its $299.99 (ouch) upgrade kit.

Update: I just checked for sources for the Toshiba drive and it is back in stock at macsales.com, one of the earlier sources for the drive (macsales had run out of stock earlier). And the price is at a nice (for a 2.5" internal drive) $138.99 (free shipping available; + tax, if applicable), which is what I believe macsales.com had been charging earlier, or thereabouts. @leiff, something to consider. Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3.0TB 2.5-inch 15.0mm SATA... at MacSales.com

Also, a couple of "open box" Toshiba drives currently on eBay at $104.98 (with free ship), one with 0 hours use, 1 with 21 hours; near the end of the warranty period. Toshiba MQ03ABB300 | eBay


----------



## leiff

Thanks for the link to the eBay open box 3 tb Toshiba for $105. Unfortunately $10 sales tax in California. Further investigation reveals Samsung pay on my phone has 4% off eBay gift cards so I decided to go for the open box from eBay thanks!!! Two months of warranty on it. hopefully I can put it through its Paces before then. They can't alter the operating hours from the list description can they? I bought this because there was only 20 hours operating listed


----------



## Mikeguy

I hope that it works out well for you! I think that the amount of use is a material term of the sale, and so it shouldn't be veered away from or you would have an eBay guarantee claim (does a hard drive keep a record of the amount of its use, and can a diagnostic tool reveal that?). But are you sure that you purchased the one that has hours on it? That eBay listing is still there right now--it's the listing with 0 hours of use that ended in a sale a few hours ago.  Even the 20-hour drive: that's less than a day of TiVo use, lol.

I picked the same drive up a few months ago on eBay, at around this price as well. I had lucked into an individual seller with good ratings who had purchased the drive from macsales.com (above)--whom I was looking at for buying from--but who never had installed it, as it was the wrong size for his purposes and he never got around to returning it. I even got the original sales receipt, in case I need it for warranty purposes. Knock wood, it's been a steady performer.  (As you are planning to do, I installed it when I received it, to make sure that it was ok, in case I needed to rely on the warranty or eBay's 30-day money back guarantee policy.)


----------



## leiff

Yeah you're right I bought the one with 0 hours on it. I just wonder how reliable that # is...


----------



## leiff

I was wondering if anyone here has opinions on the value of sleep function on bolt and if a larger capacity Drive may play into that decision in any way. Most of the time my TiVo is not being used at all which is the main reason I have my bolts on high power saving mode so it is in sleep the majority of the time but now that I'm upgrading to a 3tb drive, I start to wonder if it would be better for the bigger drive that I keep the disk running all the time instead of using power-saving sleep. I remember people speculating the spin up spin down may affect a larger drive more possibly due to more power needed to move the larger size Drive? All speculation I suppose


----------



## Mikeguy

leiff said:


> Yeah you're right I bought the one with 0 hours on it. I just wonder how reliable that # is...


(I had been wondering why you would buy the one with hours on it over the one with 0 hours, when they both were the same price!  )

Again, I wonder if there's a diagnostic tool that can reveal the number of hours, and if the drive keeps track of that. Regardless, it seemed to be a well-rated, heavy-duty seller. And hopefully, if there is any issue, it would be seen right away.


----------



## Mikeguy

leiff said:


> I was wondering if anyone here has opinions on the value of sleep function on bolt and if a larger capacity Drive may play into that decision in any way. Most of the time my TiVo is not being used at all which is the main reason I have my bolts on high power saving mode so it is in sleep the majority of the time but now that I'm upgrading to a 3tb drive, I start to wonder if it would be better for the bigger drive that I keep the disk running all the time instead of using power-saving sleep. I remember people speculating the spin up spin down may affect a larger drive more possibly due to more power needed to move the larger size Drive? All speculation I suppose


When I looked at this years back, I decided that, for me, the low amount of $/power savings was overridden by the possible extra wear-and-tear on the drive from powering down and up, and so I just keep the box always running. There's also a benefit of that, for me, of having the box record Suggestions during non-use hours. (And I don't mean to disregard the environmentalism, and cost savings, of having the box power down--I would prefer that. But it seemed so relatively little, and in the face of the possible extra wear-and-tear and what could come from that.)


----------



## leiff

Mikeguy said:


> When I looked at this years back, I decided that, for me, the low amount of $/power savings was overridden by the possible extra wear-and-tear on the drive from powering down and up, and so I just keep the box always running. There's also a benefit of that, for me, of having the box record Suggestions during non-use hours. (And I don't mean to disregard the environmentalism, and cost savings, of having the box power down--I would prefer that. But it seemed so relatively little, and in the face of the possible extra wear-and-tear and what could come from that.)


It sounds like you're sure the consensus is the extra spinning up and down will lower the life of Dr. I was not certain this was decided to be the case. For example in sleep mode it's not spinning which I might think would actually extend life is another way I was looking at it. Aside from the power saving stuff which is pretty minimal I gather. No I'm not willing to sacrifice the life of my drive to save a little electricity. I don't record suggestions but with extra drive capacity I might consider that but I thought I read recently that feature was removed? Because there's no thumbs anymore?


----------



## Mikeguy

Suggestions still are active and working (pretty well, I might add) on the TE3 user interface--and hey, now you'll have the TE3/TE4 option again, putting in a new drive!

As to the drive spinning up and down--yeah, there was lots of commentary here on that topic years back (perhaps it was when TiVo brought out the power savings feature). I just thought to be conservative in favor of the drive, even if it might mean some more power being drawn. I save other ways (he says, with a single lightbulb on in his house right now, lol).


----------



## leiff

My reason for using powersave was not just to save power but i thought mabey it was extending life of drive, by keeping the drive off the majority of the time since like I said my TiVo is not used most of the time. It's a case of runtime VS spin up /down frequency I suppose. Pick your poison.


----------



## fis

Mikeguy said:


> When I checked a few weeks back, the Toshiba 2.5" 3TB drive (no longer being manufactured) still could be found, albeit not at the old stand-by places, and the price is a bit more now.
> 
> Per TiVo earlier, one of the reasons it is not currently selling the 3TB Bolt is that the original WD drive no longer is available and TiVo has not sourced a replacement. WeaKnees still has the drive, as part of its $299.99 (ouch) upgrade kit.
> 
> Update: I just checked for sources for the Toshiba drive and it is back in stock at macsales.com, one of the earlier sources for the drive (macsales had run out of stock earlier). And the price is at a nice (for a 2.5" internal drive) $138.99 (free shipping available; + tax, if applicable), which is what I believe macsales.com had been charging earlier, or thereabouts. @leiff, something to consider. Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3.0TB 2.5-inch 15.0mm SATA... at MacSales.com
> 
> Also, a couple of "open box" Toshiba drives currently on eBay at $104.98 (with free ship), one with 0 hours use, 1 with 21 hours; near the end of the warranty period. Toshiba MQ03ABB300 | eBay


These drives on Ebay are a great deal, no doubt. Buyers should just be aware that they are basically buying an "as is" product. The Toshiba hard drive warranty covers only purchases from authorized retailers, and even then, it is very limited. If you get the drive, run it through diagnostics, find errors, and contact Toshiba immediately showing your proof of purchase, AND they decide that the warranty is valid, they still won't replace the drive. They will send you a gift card representing a fraction of what you paid, based on their estimate of the value of the remaining life. Since these are near the end of the warranty period, I expect that won't be much. In other words, their warranty is crap.


----------



## BobCamp1

leiff said:


> My reason for using powersave was not just to save power but i thought mabey it was extending life of drive, by keeping the drive off the majority of the time since like I said my TiVo is not used most of the time. It's a case of runtime VS spin up /down frequency I suppose. Pick your poison.


My general rule of thumb on hard drive reliability is don't let the hard drive perform a spin up and down cycle more than 4-5 times per day. Note that in power savings mode the hard drive rarely spins down if the Tivo is used daily. Tivo is downloading and processing guide information during that time.

In your case, I think it makes perfect sense turn on the power savings. It should increase the reliability of your hard drive.


----------



## leiff

Interesting observations right above here about spin down Behavior I was not quite aware of. Since my TiVos top lid is removed and fan is disabled I can easily tell if my drive is spinning or not. I'll pay more attention to How often it spins down to try to determine what power saving mode if any I should use. Thx


----------



## leiff

BobCamp1 said:


> In your case, I think it makes perfect sense turn on the power savings. It should increase the reliability of your hard drive.


By "reliability" I take it you mean just to extend the overall life of the drive since it's spending less time spinning as long as I'm not spinning it up and down a bunch like you said?


----------



## BobCamp1

leiff said:


> By "reliability" I take it you mean just to extend the overall life of the drive since it's spending less time spinning as long as I'm not spinning it up and down a bunch like you said?


Correct. I used to work at a well known hard drive manufacturer (though it was a while ago). The official response was "our products can run 24/7/365" but unofficially there was a slight edge to putting the drive in standby when it's not in use as long as you didn't go crazy with it. Now pretty much everything constantly accesses the hard drive as long as the device is on so spin up/spin down only happens when the device wakes up and goes to sleep.

But even if the hard drive never spins down in a Tivo, power savings stops recording of the unused tuners which will save a little wear and tear all by itself. I never thought my hard drive spun up and down when I had power savings on, but maybe you can find out for us if your cover is off.


----------



## leiff

BobCamp1 said:


> Correct. I used to work at a well known hard drive manufacturer (though it was a while ago). The official response was "our products can run 24/7/365" but unofficially there was a slight edge to putting the drive in standby when it's not in use as long as you didn't go crazy with it. Now pretty much everything constantly accesses the hard drive as long as the device is on so spin up/spin down only happens when the device wakes up and goes to sleep.
> 
> But even if the hard drive never spins down in a Tivo, power savings stops recording of the unused tuners which will save a little wear and tear all by itself. I never thought my hard drive spun up and down when I had power savings on, but maybe you can find out for us if your cover is off.


100% it does spin down. how much it does, yes I'll update for you guys no problem


----------



## leiff

Does anyone use power save feature here with a large internal hard drive? Someone earlier suggest I buy a beefier power adapter might be a good idea because I know spinning up probably takes more power puts more strain on system as will a larger capacity hard drive I'm guessing. I unplugged my fan from my TiVo so I'm saving it from that draw however significant that is


----------



## burdellgp

My Bolt+ drive failed last week (first time in 19 years I've had a TiVo drive fail). While the TiVo just flashed LEDs and wouldn't boot, I was able to dd it to a new 3TB 3.5" drive. I was planning to go the external case route; I have an old eSATA case with a noisy fan that I used temporarily, and I ordered this case: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B014LQOGV2

However, TiVo won't boot with the drive in that case; it just gives the flashing LEDs. I take the same drive and SATA/eSATA cable and put it in a different case, and it runs.

Is there a particular eSATA case that people are using?


----------



## V7Goose

In general, it has been "known" for a couple of years that after a certain software update was loaded, the Bolt would not boot from "any" eSATA external case - the conventional wisdom has been that ever since TiVo broke that function, the only way to use an external drive with a Bolt was to connect a normal SATA cable directly to the drive and not to any eSATA port on the enclosure.

Your post seems to say that you accidentally found one old eSATA case that still works with the Bolt. If that is so, you might be better off to just put a new fan in that enclosure and keep using it! 

It would also be nice if you tell us what brand and model of enclosure it is that still works. I know that it is probably no longer available, but somebody else might happen to have an old one sitting around, just like you did.


----------



## burdellgp

No, I'm using a SATA to eSATA cable, connecting from the case's eSATA connector to the TiVo internal motherboard SATA connector (not the eSATA connector on the back of the TiVo). The case that works is an old Antec MX-1 case.


----------



## LarryAtHome

burdellgp said:


> No, I'm using a SATA to eSATA cable, connecting from the case's eSATA connector to the TiVo internal motherboard SATA connector (not the eSATA connector on the back of the TiVo). The case that works is an old Antec MX-1 case.


You need to bypass the bridge board on the hard drive case as well. Remove the bridge board from your case (or just bypass it) and plug the sata cable directly into the hard disk. This leaves you plugging directly on the TiVo internal connector on the one end, and plugging directly on the hard disk on the other end. Cable length may become a factor if using a long cable for the data connection but should not be an issue.


----------



## burdellgp

LarryAtHome said:


> You need to bypass the bridge board on the hard drive case as well.


Hmm... okay. Then I also have to figure out how to get power to the drive (because the case's power supply is part of the board). Are there no other eSATA cases that work directly? That seems weird. I do have plenty of different lengths of regular SATA cables (had a bunch unused from a RAID card at work that are plenty long enough).

I guess I could just keep using the Antec case, but it has a noisy fan.


----------



## V7Goose

burdellgp said:


> No, I'm using a SATA to eSATA cable, connecting from the case's eSATA connector to the TiVo internal motherboard SATA connector (not the eSATA connector on the back of the TiVo). The case that works is an old Antec MX-1 case.


Yes, that is exactly what I understood from your post - this is the first recent case we have heard of where someone found an eSATA enclosure where the drive would work using an eSATA to SATA cable. Originally those did work fine with the Bolts, but TiVo took that away from us a couple of years ago (some of us think that software change was a deliberate move by them to further hamstring the Bolt, but no way to know for sure).

Replacing the fan in that old enclosure should be very simple and only cost a few bucks.

If you really want to buy another enclosure, do some research of older posts in this forum and the upgrade forum - numerous people have posted what enclosures they used that enabled them to bypass the enclosure eSATA port. If the people at Rovi had an brains at all, they would want to make it super easy for us to use an external 3.5" drive instead of those junk 2.5" drives. If it was easy to do (but still unsupported), then they would avoid a lot of the current complaints they are getting from failed drives!

By the way, just looking at the user-posted pictures in the reviews, it looks like this cheap enclosure would work fine to just provide cooling and power to the drive: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001PHLMAE/ref=psdc_160354011_t3_B014LQOGV2


----------



## burdellgp

Ahh, I see. I didn't realize the SATA bridge chip mattered (or could even be "seen" from the OS), but I guess that's the case. Unfortunately, replacing the fan in the old Antec MX-1 isn't really possible, as it isn't just your typical SUNON or anything like that... it's a custom thing in the drive sled. Now that I think about it, I bought this case back when I had a TiVo HD, so I probably would have replaced it then if I could! I may just see if I can put the Antec drive case down lower in my cabinet, where maybe I won't hear it.

Thanks.


----------



## burdellgp

I got my TiVo Bolt+ all buttoned up with the external Antec MX-1 case and a SATA-to-eSATA cable to the TiVo motherboard connector (had to get a right-angle adapter to get the top to go back on). I was thinking about why this case works and others don't - I expect this case's SATA bridge is only running at SATA 2 (3 gigabit) speed. I wonder if TiVo's SATA chip works "better" with that for some reason; maybe they locked out SATA 3 (6 gigabit) speed?


----------



## ggieseke

TiVo only uses SATA 1 (1.5 gigabit). No idea why most eSATA bridges in external enclosures failed a few years ago since you can make the SATA to eSATA transition without any electronics at all, but it's a TiVo and doesn't have to make sense.


----------



## krkaufman

burdellgp said:


> I got my TiVo Bolt+ all buttoned up with the external Antec MX-1 case and a SATA-to-eSATA cable to the TiVo motherboard connector (had to get a right-angle adapter to get the top to go back on). I was thinking about why this case works and others don't - I expect this case's SATA bridge is only running at SATA 2 (3 gigabit) speed. I wonder if TiVo's SATA chip works "better" with that for some reason; maybe they locked out SATA 3 (6 gigabit) speed?


It's unfortunate that BOLTs are so unforgiving when swapping drives, else I might dig up my old Antec cases. Thanks for the info.


----------



## sender_name

So I'm reading through this thread trying to figure out what the present "best" choice for an upgrade is. I just bought the 500g Bolt 4 tuner and I wanted the best "internal" upgrade. What are people using today? I see the 2TB WD blue WD20NPVZ (out of stock everywhere) but I also get the "this isn't a media drive" argument. I'm wondering if we're only seeing the failures talked about and not the successes? And then there is the 3TB Toshiba drive that people are suggesting...and of course don't buy an SMR drive....go with CMR. And I thought the WD Blue was an SMR..I'm also willing to do the sata cable to the drive sitting on top if that's what's the only option..Is there a post in this thread that's updated or is it just a lot of searching and reading? Thanks.


----------



## Mikeguy

I still seem to see the Toshiba 3TB as having been the most trouble-free. But perceptions can be so changed by the posts that are made.


----------



## sender_name

Mikeguy said:


> I still seem to see the Toshiba 3TB as having been the most trouble-free. But perceptions can be so changed by the posts that are made.


If you pop in the 3TB toshiba drive from macsales do you still want to pop it back out and run some sort of alignment with the MFSR program? It seemed like I read that somewhere...


----------



## krkaufman

sender_name said:


> If you pop in the 3TB toshiba drive from macsales do you still want to pop it back out and run some sort of alignment with the MFSR program? It seemed like I read that somewhere...


Likely in the MFS Reformatter thread.


----------



## Mikeguy

sender_name said:


> If you pop in the 3TB toshiba drive from macsales do you still want to pop it back out and run some sort of alignment with the MFSR program? It seemed like I read that somewhere...


Totally optional. Lots of people just pop the new drive in and that's it.


----------



## V7Goose

sender_name said:


> I wanted the best "internal" upgrade. What are people using today? I see the 2TB WD blue WD20NPVZ (out of stock everywhere) but I also get the "this isn't a media drive" argument. I'm wondering if we're only seeing the failures talked about and not the successes?


Just trying to share my experiences and opinion as brief as possible:

1 Bolt with 3TB Toshiba - running fine for 3 yrs
1 Bolt with 2TB WD Blue - running fine for 2 yrs

I did NOTHING to those two new drives except plug 'em in and start the Bolt.

AFAIK, Neither of those drives are still being made (but old stock sometimes available). Even if they WERE being made now, I would NOT choose to buy one if I wanted to do a new upgrade. Today I would buy a cheap $23 external 3.5" enclosure with fan and a WD Red or Purple drive in the desired size.


----------



## osu1991

I ordered the 3TB Toshiba last Thursday. It came yesterday. I’m just waiting for it to finish the final setup now so I can delete about 400 or so SD cable channels


----------



## intoid

I purchased my TIVO Bolt 3TB on 3/19/2019 that runs all the time till it recently stopped with all the 4 colorful led front LEDS flashing rapidly. No boot. So now I want to save the recorded content and plan to try a new drive. I was surprised when I removed the cover and found a WD30NPRZ in there! I will xerox the drive on a new WD30NPRZ as soon as I get it from the eBay. But I kinda expect it to also not boot unless my copier can recover the bad sector that I suspect is there. But I may discover that it’s an electronic failure on the drive instead. If that’s the case, I’ll try swapping the circuit boards tween the new drive and it to see if I get any success which depends on the analog input to the new board that may not match the old board. We’ll see... stay tuned...


----------



## BobCamp1

intoid said:


> I will xerox the drive on a new WD30NPRZ as soon as I get it from the eBay.


I wouldn't get another WD30NPRZ, unless you want that one to fail within 3-18 months too.


----------



## intoid

Yes, I sorta agree with you, but it was OEM to my surprise. I may just send my unit back to TIVO on my “All In” maintenance lifetime plan, butfirst I want to save my content if I can. I do agree too, that the toshiba may outlast the WD, I can get a free replacement from TIVO but wit loss of recorded content. The free replacement may be another WD30NPRZ but it would be free. I’ve spent too much on 2.5s but I’ll have a copy, maybe.


----------



## intoid

One more comment: I don’t expect 2.5s to last as long as 3.5s. It maybe all one can expect to just get 3 years out of a 2.5 anyhow and less likely.


----------



## HeatherA

Does anyone have a current favorite 3tb hdd for the Bolt. I ordered a 2tb Blue but my current Roamio has 3tb+the external media drive and it's at 78% so 2tb won't cut it. Gotta find a good drive to get here before the box does.


----------



## Mikeguy

Se the post at: Tivo Summer Sale 2019 is ON! Just transferred my Series 3 to a new Bolt Vox. As you can read in the above, the Toshiba has often been mentioned.


----------



## HeatherA

V7Goose said:


> Just trying to share my experiences and opinion as brief as possible:
> 
> 1 Bolt with 3TB Toshiba - running fine for 3 yrs
> 1 Bolt with 2TB WD Blue - running fine for 2 yrs
> 
> I did NOTHING to those two new drives except plug 'em in and start the Bolt.
> 
> AFAIK, Neither of those drives are still being made (but old stock sometimes available). Even if they WERE being made now, I would NOT choose to buy one if I wanted to do a new upgrade. Today I would buy a cheap $23 external 3.5" enclosure with fan and a WD Red or Purple drive in the desired size.


I'm looking at these today. I ordered a 2tb blue from Amazon, what steps would I need to do to go the external route on a brand new Bolt 6 tuner? Can you point me to a thread, I've been looking but coming up empty.


----------



## Sonyad

HeatherA said:


> I'm looking at these today. I ordered a 2tb blue from Amazon, what steps would I need to do to go the external route on a brand new Bolt 6 tuner? Can you point me to a thread, I've been looking but coming up empty.


I found this thread Tivo Bolt - Raid 1


----------



## V7Goose

There are lots of threads on this, both in this forum and the upgrade forum. Just do a search on the word "enclosure" and you will probably find more than you want.

In short, you buy something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-Alum...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=BP7DBDMTB4EFZ8XG3ASB

You install the new drive in the enclosure, but you do NOT connect it to anything but the power plug.
Next, you open the Bolt and use a normal SATA cable to connect the drive directly to the same place in the Bolt where the internal drive is connected. You are done - just turn on the enclosure and power up the Bolt.

The toughest decision you will have is if you want to leave the cover loose on the bolt or cut a hole in the plastic for the SATA cable.

MOST current external enclosures do not seem to have built-in fans. I personally think that the fan is important, since this installation requires that external drive to be running constantly 7x24x365. Another important feature of the enclosure you buy is that it must have separate power and data plugs, or you will not be able to use a normal SATA cable directly connected to the drive. Any other features or specifications of the enclosure are meaningless - the only thing you want it to do is provide power and cooling to the drive.

Technically, you do not even need an enclosure - you could just lay the external drive on the shelf behind the Bolt with both the data and power cables coming from the Bolt. But the external enclosure is just neater, cools the drive, and reduces the load on the Bolt.


----------



## tvmaster2

osu1991 said:


> I ordered the 3TB Toshiba last Thursday. It came yesterday. I'm just waiting for it to finish the final setup now so I can delete about 400 or so SD cable channels


Hi, sorry, what's the model number of the Toshiba drive? thanks.


----------



## tvmaster2

Tony_T said:


> Those are _probably_ SMR drives and should be avoided for TiVo.


Can you explain what SMR & CMR stand for, and their relevance/importance to being used in a Bolt? Thanks


----------



## Mikeguy

tvmaster2 said:


> Hi, sorry, what's the model number of the Toshiba drive? thanks.


Presumably, referring to Toshiba 3.0TB MQ03ABB300 Hard Disk Drive. 
Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3.0TB 2.5-inch 15.0mm SATA... at MacSales.com


----------



## edwinyuen

V7Goose said:


> There are lots of threads on this, both in this forum and the upgrade forum. Just do a search on the word "enclosure" and you will probably find more than you want.
> 
> In short, you buy something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-Alum...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=BP7DBDMTB4EFZ8XG3ASB
> 
> ................
> 
> Technically, you do not even need an enclosure - you could just lay the external drive on the shelf behind the Bolt with both the data and power cables coming from the Bolt. But the external enclosure is just neater, cools the drive, and reduces the load on the Bolt.


Thank you! This is the simplest, clearest recap on the subject I have seen in a while. I was wondering what was preventing me from just placing the external drive next to bolt on it's own and you confirmed that's possible, but maybe not optimal.

And to why I'm going external, I've posted it before but I went with a Toshiba Toshiba 3.0TB MQ03ABB300 and it lasted a week before I had the four flashing lights. I've upgraded 7 other Tivos with 3.5" and none ever had a problem and the Bolt was the first ever with an issue. My failure rate on 2.5" drives outside Tivos aren't great either and I've only had one 3.5" drive die in the past 15 years or so (and of course, it was my WD Extender off my THD).


----------



## Sonyad

V7Goose said:


> There are lots of threads on this, both in this forum and the upgrade forum. Just do a search on the word "enclosure" and you will probably find more than you want.
> 
> In short, you buy something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-Alum...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=BP7DBDMTB4EFZ8XG3ASB
> 
> You install the new drive in the enclosure, but you do NOT connect it to anything but the power plug.
> Next, you open the Bolt and use a normal SATA cable to connect the drive directly to the same place in the Bolt where the internal drive is connected. You are done - just turn on the enclosure and power up the Bolt.
> 
> The toughest decision you will have is if you want to leave the cover loose on the bolt or cut a hole in the plastic for the SATA cable.
> 
> MOST current external enclosures do not seem to have built-in fans. I personally think that the fan is important, since this installation requires that external drive to be running constantly 7x24x365. Another important feature of the enclosure you buy is that it must have separate power and data plugs, or you will not be able to use a normal SATA cable directly connected to the drive. Any other features or specifications of the enclosure are meaningless - the only thing you want it to do is provide power and cooling to the drive.
> 
> Technically, you do not even need an enclosure - you could just lay the external drive on the shelf behind the Bolt with both the data and power cables coming from the Bolt. But the external enclosure is just neater, cools the drive, and reduces the load on the Bolt.


Thank you for your clear response. That's the enclosure I picked up yesterday. I have a 4TB red drive I'm planning to use in the enclosure. Can the Bolt recognize this drive or do I have to torture myself and dabble in MFS Tools?


----------



## osu1991

tvmaster2 said:


> Hi, sorry, what's the model number of the Toshiba drive? thanks.


Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3.0TB 2.5-inch 15.0mm SATA... at MacSales.com


----------



## krkaufman

V7Goose said:


> running constantly 7x24x365


I've always found this phrasing redundant. Isn't the "7" overkill? Doesn't "24x365" cover the whole year?


----------



## Tony_T

krkaufman said:


> I've always found this phrasing redundant. Isn't the "7" overkill? Doesn't "24x365" cover the whole year?


Doesn't "365" also?


----------



## krkaufman

Tony_T said:


> Doesn't "365" also?


Does it? Does "7x24" strictly communicate anything more than a single week, without overlaying assumptions?


----------



## JoeKustra

krkaufman said:


> Does it? Does "7x24" strictly communicate anything more than a single week, without overlaying assumptions?


Don't forget Leap Year.


----------



## mobouser

goHardDrive.com - Toshiba MQ03ABB200 2TB 5400RPM 16MB Cache (15mm) SATA 6.0Gb/s 2.5'' Mobile Hard Drive - 3 Year Warranty


----------



## ej42137

krkaufman said:


> Does it? Does "7x24" strictly communicate anything more than a single week, without overlaying assumptions?


If you add 365, does that mean only a single year? 168 years? Or is this just an idiom after all, a shortening of the saying "24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year"?


----------



## Mikeguy

mobouser said:


> goHardDrive.com - Toshiba MQ03ABB200 2TB 5400RPM 16MB Cache (15mm) SATA 6.0Gb/s 2.5'' Mobile Hard Drive - 3 Year Warranty


You left out: *$49.99 *(and with free shipping, no less; and the drive's full 3-year warranty). :up::up:

I would be tempted to run, don't walk.

Award to @mobouser for best deal of the weekend. :clapping:


----------



## burdellgp

intoid said:


> I purchased my TIVO Bolt 3TB on 3/19/2019 that runs all the time till it recently stopped with all the 4 colorful led front LEDS flashing rapidly. No boot. So now I want to save the recorded content and plan to try a new drive.


In my Bolt+, I got the blinkenlights on boot, but the drive still read when I hooked it up to a computer (it had SMART errors and was pretty constantly resetting). I ran ddrescue on Linux to copy it to a new 3TB drive and didn't lose a thing.


----------



## V7Goose

tvmaster2 said:


> Can you explain what SMR & CMR stand for, and their relevance/importance to being used in a Bolt? Thanks


SMR stands for Shingled Magnetic Recording, and it is the newer technology that allows more data to be stuffed in the same space by overlapping tracks like the shingles on a roof are overlapped. It has proven to be VERY unreliable in a DVR. Stupid technology (in my uneducated opinion).

Older and much more reliable drives used PMR (Perpendicular Magnetic Recording) - that keeps all the data neatly in a track next to other tracks on either side, but NOT overlapping. In 2.5" drive format, large capacity PMR drives are almost always thicker than SMR drives of the same size because they need more platters, and thus do not fit in many 2.5" installations where space is limited, so most manufacturers quit making them at all. The commonly used 2.5" 2TB WD Blue drive that many of us have used successfully was often available at a steep discount as a "used" drive because so many of them were ordered for laptops and then returned when they did not fit!


----------



## V7Goose

Sonyad said:


> Thank you for your clear response. That's the enclosure I picked up yesterday. I have a 4TB red drive I'm planning to use in the enclosure. Can the Bolt recognize this drive or do I have to torture myself and dabble in MFS Tools?


I THINK the Bolt will properly use a 4TB drive without doing anything else to it, but frankly, I am not positive; I have only used a 3TB on mine. It would be better for you to do a little research on the Upgrade forum to verify that.


----------



## V7Goose

krkaufman said:


> I've always found this phrasing redundant. Isn't the "7" overkill? Doesn't "24x365" cover the whole year?


My bad. How 'bout 24 x 1 millennium?

Or maybe 24x7x31 (or sometimes 30)x365(x3)+1x366x10 or more repeats? Yeah, that should cover it.


----------



## Sonyad

V7Goose said:


> I THINK the Bolt will properly use a 4TB drive without doing anything else to it, but frankly, I am not positive; I have only used a 3TB on mine. It would be better for you to do a little research on the Upgrade forum to verify that.


I'm trying to comprehend the Tools thread, but it's daunting. My last programming class was Fortran back when computers used punched cards. A few months ago I tried to download the program to an USB drive but I couldn't get it to work. Folks will say use a particular program, and then you find out you still have to acquire 2 to 3 other programs from shady mirror sites to get things running. I am also confused as to whether I only have format and expand my 4TB or do I also have to shuffle it back and forth with the original drive. If I'm going to plus the external drive into the sata port the original drive is using, is there any reason for that back and forth shuffling I've read about?

Also, if the case will be destroyed on any attempts to open it, I might as well do the external anyway and have a greater storage for the destruction.


----------



## Mikeguy

Sonyad said:


> Also, if the case will be destroyed on any attempts to open it, I might as well do the external anyway and have a greater storage for the destruction.


If you are referring to the opening of the Bolt box case (e.g. to replace the internal drive), the case is not destroyed--the most that typically happens is that some internal, plastic tension clips are broken. The case still closes without them and nothing is visible.


----------



## Sonyad

Mikeguy said:


> If you are referring to the opening of the Bolt box case (e.g. to replace the internal drive), the case is not destroyed--the most that typically happens is that some internal, plastic tension clips are broken. The case still closes without them and nothing is visible.


Destruction is hyperbole, but it's still broken. Stupid for Tivo to design the case like this. Drive replacements are business as usual.


----------



## jlb

V7Goose said:


> My bad. How 'bout 24 x 1 millennium?
> 
> Or maybe 24x7x31 (or sometimes 30)x365(x3)+1x366x10 or more repeats? Yeah, that should cover it.


It's all moot if you are Q.


----------



## Mikeguy

Sonyad said:


> Destruction is hyperbole, but it's still broken. Stupid for Tivo to design the case like this. Drive replacements are business as usual.


I guess that TiVo isn't focusing on users opening the boxes up (it doesn't support or endorse this, of course) and making modifications--my assumption is, assembly is cheaper and faster with clips over separate screws.

Clips don't always break, and only some might. And "broken" (your word) in a way that has no or little visual effect/impact (depending, a seam _might _be more apparent?) and none on operation, any more than removing the "do not remove" label from your mattress.


----------



## V7Goose

Some people are more ham-fisted than others. I have opened three different Bolts, sometimes several times, and NEVER broken a single clip, tab or other piece of plastic. I did not follow any specific instructions, nor do I have any special technique - it was just common sense and working slow.

The Bolt case is never "broken" by just opening it; if it is "broken" at all, it is by carelessness.


----------



## Donbadabon

Would it be possible to remove the 3TB drive from a Cable-only Bolt, and use it to replace the 500GB drive in the Antenna/Cable Bolt?

Not to keep the data or settings, but was wondering if the Antenna/Cable Bolt would just reformat the drive and start using it?


----------



## snerd

Donbadabon said:


> Would it be possible to remove the 3TB drive from a Cable-only Bolt, and use it to replace the 500GB drive in the Antenna/Cable Bolt?
> 
> Not to keep the data or settings, but was wondering if the Antenna/Cable Bolt would just reformat the drive and start using it?


Should work fine.


----------



## Tony_T

This helped me to open the case: Spudger


----------



## ggieseke

Donbadabon said:


> Would it be possible to remove the 3TB drive from a Cable-only Bolt, and use it to replace the 500GB drive in the Antenna/Cable Bolt?
> 
> Not to keep the data or settings, but was wondering if the Antenna/Cable Bolt would just reformat the drive and start using it?


On a straight swap you will have to run a Clear & Delete Everything to marry the drive to the motherboard, but it _should_ work. It would probably be quicker and safer to wipe the 3TB drive with the write zeros test in WD's Data LifeGuard Diagnostics, then let the new Bolt auto-format the drive from scratch.


----------



## krkaufman

Tony_T said:


> This helped me to open the case: Spudger


I like to keep and cut-up the various faux credit cards received in mailings as my DIY spudgers. Having a bunch of them on-hand is helpful for pesky cases that like to slide back into a latched postion when working the other clips.


----------



## rainbow

fis said:


> A quick web search says some folks have opened these and harvested a WD80EFAX red drive. One review I read said that the drives inside these things will sometimes not turn on when harvested and plugged directly into a computer, due to pin3 being powered on older SATA power plugs, which is now used as a disable pin for remote drive reboots. That's as much as I know. YMMV.


I just took advantage of the summer sale transferring my oled 3 for the 500g Vox. Last year I bought an ' 8tb wd easystore 'which is still in its wrapping.

Would I be able to use the 8tb easystore attached to the vox? If so, if someone could point me in the right direction to accomplish that, it would be greatly appreciated.

I was hoping to just plug and play, but it appears it is not going to be that simple. I had read reviews before purchasing and someone had posted it worked with Tivo.

On the box the easystore, it lists desktop hard drive, USB 3.0 cable, ace adapter, requires reformatting for Mac OS.


----------



## tvmaster2

Tony_T said:


> This helped me to open the case: Spudger


Spudgers are so great. Can't believe I never owned a set until recently.

https://www.amazon.com/Kingsdun-Pro...64546571&s=gateway&sprefix=spu,aps,195&sr=8-7


----------



## ej42137

rainbow said:


> I just took advantage of the summer sale transferring my oled 3 for the 500g Vox. Last year I bought an ' 8tb wd easystore 'which is still in its wrapping.
> 
> Would I be able to use the 8tb easystore attached to the vox? If so, if someone could point me in the right direction to accomplish that, it would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> I was hoping to just plug and play, but it appears it is not going to be that simple. I had read reviews before purchasing and someone had posted it worked with Tivo.
> 
> On the box the easystore, it lists desktop hard drive, USB 3.0 cable, ace adapter, requires reformatting for Mac OS.


No.

The only way to use a big drive is to revert to TE3 and snake a SATA cable out of a hold you drill in the case to directly replace the internal hard disk. TE4 has been reported to fail drives larger than 3TB, your external device is USB which has never been supported as an external device on a TiVo, and eSATA drives (which this isn't) are no longer supported except two 0.5TB and 1TB drives and particular enclosurse that are no longer made and are impossible to find. It has also been reported that some Bolts delivered with TE4 can't be downleveled to TE3. You can't use your 8TB external with your TiVo.


----------



## tvmaster2

ej42137 said:


> No.
> 
> The only way to use a big drive is to revert to TE3 and snake a SATA cable out of a hold you drill in the case to directly replace the internal hard disk. TE4 has been reported to fail drives larger than 3TB, your external device is USB which has never been supported as an external device on a TiVo, and eSATA drives (which this isn't) are no longer supported except two 0.5TB and 1TB drives and particular enclosurse that are no longer made and are impossible to find. It has also been reported that some Bolts delivered with TE4 can't be downleveled to TE3. You can't use your 8TB external with your TiVo.


Hi. What does TE3/TE4 stand for? And the eSATA port is mostly useless now on a Bolt? Maybe I should keep my Premeire's and Roamio for a little longer. Thanks.


----------



## JoeKustra

tvmaster2 said:


> Hi. What does TE3/TE4 stand for? And the eSATA port is mostly useless now on a Bolt? Maybe I should keep my Premeire's and Roamio for a little longer. Thanks.


TiVo Experience. The 3 is the older one. The 4 is the newer one. I don't have a Bolt. See my signature's link for more abbreviations.


----------



## Tony_T

eSATA port is useless now on a Bolt. IIRC, only one *discontinued* WD Passport drive works with it


----------



## rainbow

JoeKustra said:


> TiVo Experience. The 3 is the older one. The 4 is the newer one. I don't have a Bolt. See my signature's link for more abbreviations.


i also have the white bolt for a year or 2. is that a T3?
i actually have a premiere that has a 6T HD. it might be better to try to use the 8T as an internal in the premiere.

i am disappointed about the bolt and vox maxing out for all intents and purposes as 3T. 
i will continue to use my premiere as my main tivo. it is a 2 tuner but oh well....


----------



## krkaufman

JoeKustra said:


> tvmaster2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does TE3/TE4 stand for?
> 
> 
> 
> TiVo Experience. The 3 is the older one. The 4 is the newer one. I don't have a Bolt. See my signature's link for more abbreviations.
Click to expand...




rainbow said:


> i also have the white bolt for a year or 2. is that a T3?


You're confusing the names for the differing UI versions, TE3 (TiVo Experience 3, aka Encore, v20.*) and TE4 (TiVo Experience 4, aka Hydra, Mira, v21.*), and some cable provider's rebranding of TiVo boxes (i.e. a "T6" being a 6-tuner Roamio, I believe).

A BOLT* can run either TE3 or TE4 (* aside from the BOLT OTA, which is restricted to TE4).


----------



## majohnss

I have a older bolt (2015) was hit by lighting. HDMI port is bad. The rest of box seems to work. Still records and I can stream to iPad recorded shows. It has a 2tb drive. I was wondering if I could order new bolt VOC 500g and just swap old 2tb drive in. I don’t care about any data on drive. Just would like larger drive.


----------



## ej42137

majohnss said:


> I have a older bolt (2015) was hit by lighting. HDMI port is bad. The rest of box seems to work. Still records and I can stream to iPad recorded shows. It has a 2tb drive. I was wondering if I could order new bolt VOC 500g and just swap old 2tb drive in. I don't care about any data on drive. Just would like larger drive.


Pretty much. You would need to either do a TiVo full reset or erase the drive to clean things up. The easiest way to erase the drive for most people is to plug it into a Windows machine and quick format the drive. Once a Roamio or Bolt sees a drive that's not already TiVo formatted, it will automatically set it up as a new drive.

It works just as well to do a TiVo reset, if you don't want to connect it to another machine; it's under the Help menus.


----------



## ej42137

tvmaster2 said:


> And the eSATA port is mostly useless now on a Bolt?


Pretty much. Weaknees can set it up as an expansion drive by doing some proprietary magic, you can get up to 12TB of storage going that route. But otherwise it's completely useless.


----------



## Randy Spencer

krkaufman said:


> I've always found this phrasing redundant. Isn't the "7" overkill? Doesn't "24x365" cover the whole year?


I went down the street to the 24-hour grocery. When I got there, the guy was locking the front door. I said, 'Hey, the sign says you're open 24 hours.' He said, 'Yes, but not in a row.' Steven Wright


----------



## telecomjd

I'm planning to install a 3T Toshiba drive in my new Bolt. Should I be concerned about overheating and would a laptop drive cooler be of any benefit or does the fan in the Bolt provide sufficient cooling?


----------



## tiernan22

I have a Bolt Vox 500 arriving at the end of the week. Has anyone used this Toshiba?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CT5RDD...colid=OAIJE6LOD5NL&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


----------



## Mikeguy

tiernan22 said:


> I have a Bolt Vox 500 arriving at the end of the week. Has anyone used this Toshiba?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CT5RDD...colid=OAIJE6LOD5NL&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


For a little bit more, I'd be inclined to go the Toshiba line that people here tend to recommend--the 2TB model: BRAND NEW WITH WARRANTY(MQ03ABB200) Toshiba 2TB 5400RPM SATA 2.5" Internal Drive 4058154047279 | eBay.

(And the 3TB: Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3.0TB 2.5-inch 15.0mm SATA... at MacSales.com.)


----------



## UpgraderIthink

Mikeguy said:


> For a little bit more, I'd be inclined to go the Toshiba line that people here tend to recommend--the 2TB model: BRAND NEW WITH WARRANTY(MQ03ABB200) Toshiba 2TB 5400RPM SATA 2.5" Internal Drive 4058154047279 | eBay.
> 
> (And the 3TB: Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3.0TB 2.5-inch 15.0mm SATA... at MacSales.com.)


Do you follow the train of thought of just 'pop it in' for the Toshiba 3TB or do u also use MFS for some kind of 4K formating?


----------



## Mikeguy

UpgraderIthink said:


> Do you follow the train of thought of just 'pop it in' for the Toshiba 3TB or do u also use MFS for some kind of 4K formating?


I just popped it in: I didn't have an adapter to connect the Toshiba drive to my laptop to do any MFS work on the drive; and I just kinda figured, just popping the drive straight in has worked for others.


----------



## UpgraderIthink

Mikeguy said:


> I just popped it in: I didn't have an adapter to connect the Toshiba drive to my laptop to do any MFS work on the drive; and I just kinda figured, just popping the drive straight in has worked for others.


Thks... that is what I also just got from 'ggieseke'


----------



## justen_m

I upgraded my 500GB with the 3TB Toshiba yesterday. Just took it out of the static bag, screwed it to the drive tray, plug in the power/SATA connectors, and put Bolt back together, and plugged it in. Did the same with my Roamio Plus. I even have a USB to SATA/IDE adapter, so I could have plugged the drive into a PC, but I didn't bother.


----------



## UpgraderIthink

justen_m said:


> I upgraded my 500GB with the 3TB Toshiba yesterday. Just took it out of the static bag, screwed it to the drive tray, plug in the power/SATA connectors, and put Bolt back together, and plugged it in. Did the same with my Roamio Plus. I even have a USB to SATA/IDE adapter, so I could have plugged the drive into a PC, but I didn't bother.


Did you first run the setup on the 500GB then switch the drive? Any issues at all?


----------



## justen_m

UpgraderIthink said:


> Did you first run the setup on the 500GB then switch the drive? Any issues at all?


Yeah, I did, but my Bolt is over two years old. I finally got around to upgrading the drive. I had 3TB on my Roamio Plus before I even got my Bolt so I didn't really need the space. I had no issues at all. Plugged the new drive in, rebooted, then ran through guided set up, downloading all the guide data, etc, as if it was a new TiVo. The setup process after reboot took quite a bit longer than disassembling, putting in the new drive, and reassembling the Bolt.

I don't know if you have to do it twice (500GB, then again with 3TB). I guess I'd probably boot and setup the thing with 500GB just to verify everything is working, for return/warranty purposes, before I cracked the case. Could be DOA, bad drive, dead tuners, bad ports, etc. I upgraded the drives in my S2, S2DT, TiVoHD, Roamio Plus, and now Bolt, but I've always waited a year before I did it. Paranoid me.


----------



## Mikeguy

justen_m said:


> Yeah, I did, but my Bolt is over two years old. I finally got around to upgrading the drive. I had 3TB on my Roamio Plus before I even got my Bolt so I didn't really need the space. I had no issues at all. Plugged the new drive in, rebooted, then ran through guided set up, downloading all the guide data, etc, as if it was a new TiVo. The setup process after reboot took quite a bit longer than disassembling, putting in the new drive, and reassembling the Bolt.


You're a braver soul than I: my disassembly/re-assembly was deliberate and slow, as I was nearly scared to death that I would lose one of the tiny screws, even though I had put a drop-cloth down. 


> I don't know if you have to do it twice (500GB, then again with 3TB). I guess I'd probably boot and setup the thing with 500GB just to verify everything is working, for return/warranty purposes, *before I cracked the case*. Could be DOA, bad drive, dead tuners, bad ports, etc. I upgraded the drives in my S2, S2DT, TiVoHD, Roamio Plus, and now Bolt, but I've always waited a year before I did it. Paranoid me.


Perhaps better, "before I_ opened_ the case."


----------



## tiernan22

justen_m said:


> I don't know if you have to do it twice (500GB, then again with 3TB). I guess I'd probably boot and setup the thing with 500GB just to verify everything is working, for return/warranty purposes, before I cracked the case. Could be DOA, bad drive, dead tuners, bad ports, etc. I upgraded the drives in my S2, S2DT, TiVoHD, Roamio Plus, and now Bolt, but I've always waited a year before I did it. Paranoid me.


I ended up breaking down and getting the 3TB. I'll boot it up before replacing the drive. I wanted to avoid activating the CableCard twice but, you know, warranties...


----------



## BobCamp1

Mikeguy said:


> For a little bit more, I'd be inclined to go the Toshiba line that people here tend to recommend--the 2TB model: BRAND NEW WITH WARRANTY(MQ03ABB200) Toshiba 2TB 5400RPM SATA 2.5" Internal Drive 4058154047279 | eBay.
> 
> (And the 3TB: Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3.0TB 2.5-inch 15.0mm SATA... at MacSales.com.)


It's always a good idea to avoid the highest capacity drive in a series. That's the drive where the components are under the most stress.


----------



## aaronwt

ej42137 said:


> No.
> 
> The only way to use a big drive is to revert to TE3 and snake a SATA cable out of a hold you drill in the case to directly replace the internal hard disk. TE4 has been reported to fail drives larger than 3TB, your external device is USB which has never been supported as an external device on a TiVo, and eSATA drives (which this isn't) are no longer supported except two 0.5TB and 1TB drives and particular enclosurse that are no longer made and are impossible to find. It has also been reported that some Bolts delivered with TE4 can't be downleveled to TE3. You can't use your 8TB external with your TiVo.


I've been using a 4TB drive with Hydra since it launched.


----------



## krkaufman

aaronwt said:


> I've been using a 4TB drive with Hydra since it launched.


A drive that is not currently available for purchase, right? And even a blip for that model, correct, with later firmware versions not working as well as yours?

Are there any currently available non-SSD/magnetic laptop drives larger than 3TB known to work with the BOLT? With a TE4 BOLT?


----------



## aaronwt

krkaufman said:


> A drive that is not currently available for purchase, right? And even a blip for that model, correct, with later firmware versions not working as well as yours?
> 
> Are there any currently available non-SSD/magnetic laptop drives larger than 3TB known to work with the BOLT? With a TE4 BOLT?


AFAIK large 3.5 inch drives in an external enclosure, connected to the internal sata port work. But I never wanted to mess with the external enclosure route. Although if I were still using my TiVos like I did a few years ago, I probably would have set something up with an external enclosure.

At this point if/when my 4TB 2.5 inch drive dies, I will replace it with one of the five or six, 500GB original TiVo Bolt drives I have lying around.


----------



## Sonyad

V7Goose said:


> There are lots of threads on this, both in this forum and the upgrade forum. Just do a search on the word "enclosure" and you will probably find more than you want.
> 
> In short, you buy something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-Alum...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=BP7DBDMTB4EFZ8XG3ASB
> 
> You install the new drive in the enclosure, but you do NOT connect it to anything but the power plug.
> Next, you open the Bolt and use a normal SATA cable to connect the drive directly to the same place in the Bolt where the internal drive is connected. You are done - just turn on the enclosure and power up the Bolt.
> 
> The toughest decision you will have is if you want to leave the cover loose on the bolt or cut a hole in the plastic for the SATA cable.
> 
> MOST current external enclosures do not seem to have built-in fans. I personally think that the fan is important, since this installation requires that external drive to be running constantly 7x24x365. Another important feature of the enclosure you buy is that it must have separate power and data plugs, or you will not be able to use a normal SATA cable directly connected to the drive. Any other features or specifications of the enclosure are meaningless - the only thing you want it to do is provide power and cooling to the drive.
> 
> Technically, you do not even need an enclosure - you could just lay the external drive on the shelf behind the Bolt with both the data and power cables coming from the Bolt. But the external enclosure is just neater, cools the drive, and reduces the load on the Bolt.


Unfortunately this case doesn't work. Drive slides onto the sata connections that are mounted. There's no way to separate the connections. Now I'm looking for the unicorn of a powered case with separate power and data connections. The deactivation time bomb is ticking.


----------



## V7Goose

Sonyad said:


> Unfortunately this case doesn't work. Drive slides onto the sata connections that are mounted. There's no way to separate the connections. Now I'm looking for the unicorn of a powered case with separate power and data connections. The deactivation time bomb is ticking.


First - full disclosure: I do not personally have this case, so all of my comments are based off the specifications and other user-supplied pictures.

But I have to wonder if you actually have the same case for which I supplied a link on Amazon? That case specs clearly state that it can use either a SATA or an older IDE drive, so it MUST have a separate power plug. Furthermore, there are some user-supplied pictures on Amazon that do clearly show that. Maybe the SATA connector is a single combined plug? I do not know about that, but I do know it would not make any difference if so - just do not use the combined plug! Instead, simply get a cheap IDE-SATA power adapter (probably no more than a buck).


----------



## Sonyad

V7Goose said:


> First - full disclosure: I do not personally have this case, so all of my comments are based off the specifications and other user-supplied pictures.
> 
> But I have to wonder if you actually have the same case for which I supplied a link on Amazon? That case specs clearly state that it can use either a SATA or an older IDE drive, so it MUST have a separate power plug. Furthermore, there are some user-supplied pictures on Amazon that do clearly show that. Maybe the SATA connector is a single combined plug? I do not know about that, but I do know it would not make any difference if so - just do not use the combined plug! Instead, simply get a cheap IDE-SATA power adapter (probably no more than a buck).


It has a power plug for the older styled ide drives. However sata drives just slide onto the power and data connectors that are welded to the board. Essentially a single combined plug. They are not separate cables like for connecting ide drives. In fact which type of drive you are installing determines which side of the case you insert it in. This is the enclosure I purchased. https://www.microcenter.com/product...luminum-hard-drive-enclosure-with-cooling-fan. I guess I could see how the power adapter works. And I would have to switch the drive placement. I managed to order the Rosewill RX304-APU3-35B case which will arrive tomorrow. I'll see if it works better and I'll keep you and this forum posted.


----------



## johnj

Like many, I have purchased a new Bolt Vox with 500Gb drive and also purchased the 3 TB Toshiba 2.5 drive and both are on the way. I did not see a clear response on whether the cable card/TiVo registration was linked to any info on the HD or if that was tied to something in the hardware (e.g. the MAC address). If I authenticate the cable card/TiVo with the original drive in place will I need to call the cable company again after the drive upgrade? I am trying to avoid two likely long calls with the cable company support group.


----------



## JoeKustra

johnj said:


> Like many, I have purchased a new Bolt Vox with 500Gb drive and also purchased the 3 TB Toshiba 2.5 drive and both are on the way. I did not see a clear response on whether the cable card/TiVo registration was linked to any info on the HD or if that was tied to something in the hardware (e.g. the MAC address). If I authenticate the cable card/TiVo with the original drive in place will I need to call the cable company again after the drive upgrade? I am trying to avoid two likely long calls with the cable company support group.


When you change the hard drive it will un-pair your cable card. You may or may not need to have it paired again. It depends on your cable feed. Odds favor a re-pair.

A good practice is to power up the new Bolt, look through all the menus and let it run for a day. If there are no issues, replace the drive and call for pairing.


----------



## snerd

johnj said:


> Like many, I have purchased a new Bolt Vox with 500Gb drive and also purchased the 3 TB Toshiba 2.5 drive and both are on the way. I did not see a clear response on whether the cable card/TiVo registration was linked to any info on the HD or if that was tied to something in the hardware (e.g. the MAC address). If I authenticate the cable card/TiVo with the original drive in place will I need to call the cable company again after the drive upgrade? I am trying to avoid two likely long calls with the cable company support group.


I performed Guided Setup on my new Bolt Pox, including pairing the CableCARD. After replacing the hard drive, the Host ID number was the same but the Data was different, so the CableCARD had to be paired again. This leads me to believe that the Host ID number is exclusively tied to the TiVo itself, but the Data includes information about the hard drive, such that changing the hard drive screws up the pairing. YMMV.


----------



## Tony_T

JoeKustra said:


> When you change the hard drive it will un-pair your cable card. You may or may not need to have it paired again. It depends on your cable feed. Odds favor a re-pair.
> 
> A good practice is to power up the new Bolt, look through all the menus and let it run for a day. If there are no issues, replace the drive and call for pairing.


I replaced the drive before starting up the Bolt. I figured, if there was a problem and I needed to return the Bolt, I would just put the old drive back.


----------



## pl1

V7Goose said:


> First - full disclosure: I do not personally have this case, so all of my comments are based off the specifications and other user-supplied pictures.
> 
> But I have to wonder if you actually have the same case for which I supplied a link on Amazon? That case specs clearly state that it can use either a SATA or an older IDE drive, so it MUST have a separate power plug. Furthermore, there are some user-supplied pictures on Amazon that do clearly show that. Maybe the SATA connector is a single combined plug? I do not know about that, but I do know it would not make any difference if so - just do not use the combined plug! Instead, simply get a cheap IDE-SATA power adapter (probably no more than a buck).


I just purchased and installed the exact external hard drive case you linked to. It is just as you say.

(During my research I noticed there used to be an OLDER version which had BOTH power connecters and BOTH data connectors for the SATA or PATA drives.)

This newer version only has the PATA power with the data separated, while the SATA plug is a combined data/power plug soldered in.

So, what I did was to turn the drive upside down and use a PATA to SATA power adapter. There is plenty of room this way and the drive sits tight enough in the case to skip the screws. (I could easily drill holes if needed.)

Anyway, this drive case works perfectly for me. I purchased the Bolt with a 500g drive and I wanted to use a 3.5" 2TB drive from my Roamio. The external drive case fan is totally quiet. I did snip the cables to blackout the lights.


----------



## edwinyuen

pl1 said:


> I just purchased and installed the exact external hard drive case you linked to. It is just as you say.
> 
> (During my research I noticed there used to be an OLDER version which had BOTH power connecters and BOTH data connectors for the SATA or PATA drives.)
> 
> This newer version only has the PATA power with the data separated, while the SATA plug is a combined data/power plug soldered in.
> 
> So, what I did was to turn the drive upside down and use a PATA to SATA power adapter. There is plenty of room this way and the drive sits tight enough in the case to skip the screws. (I could easily drill holes if needed.)
> 
> Anyway, this drive case works perfectly for me. I purchased the Bolt with a 500g drive and I wanted to use a 3.5" 2TB drive from my Roamio. The external drive case fan is totally quiet. I did snip the cables to blackout the lights.


I was going to write the exact same thing. The issue is you need more parts, a long SATA data cable and a Molex to SATA power converter. They cost about $7 on Amazon as a set. Just ignore the internal SATA connectors. Once you have all the parts, just insert the 3.5" drive in upside down. Plug the Molex to SATA power converter between the case power and the drive. Then plug the SATA data cable from the drive to the Bolt. The case still screws down and has room for the converter cables, so no issue there. My only issue was getting more parts than I expected.


----------



## telecomjd

telecomjd said:


> I'm planning to install a 3T Toshiba drive in my new Bolt. Should I be concerned about overheating and would a laptop drive cooler be of any benefit or does the fan in the Bolt provide sufficient cooling?


After installing the 3T Toshiba drive, the Bolt does not seem to be running hot. Just wondering if anyone has found the need to upgrade the fan or use a laptop cooler.


----------



## JimWall

I just received a 500 GB Bolt Vox. Used the deal to migrate the lifetime from my series 3.
I replaced hard drive with Toshiba 2TB L200 before I turned it on.
It ran through setup and then said it needed to restart to apply a system update.
It then got into a reboot loop. After an hour I put original drive back in and same issues.
Tivo chat support only suggested pulling power for 10 seconds and plugging back in. Made no difference. Was told to call support.
I called and after some checking Tivo support said the update can take up to 24 hours to apply. Will keep rebooting during that time.
By morning Tivo was waiting at setup screen.
I put the Toshibas 2 TB back in. After a couple reboots to also stopped at the setup screen.
Went through steps and all its good
Used tivo online to copy season passes over.
System information estimates 315 HD hours free.
Not how to get old recordings off old series 3.


----------



## krkaufman

JimWall said:


> Not how to get old recordings off old series 3.


Rollback BOLT to TE3 and transfer unprotected S3 content to BOLT; then stick w TE3 or upgrade BOLT to TE4 for full TE4 (VOX, Autoskip) functionality.


----------



## JimWall

krkaufman said:


> Rollback BOLT to TE3 and transfer unprotected S3 content to BOLT; then stick w TE3 or upgrade BOLT to TE4 for full TE4 (VOX, Autoskip) functionality.


How do I upgrade BOLT VOX to full TE4 or is that what I have now? system info is 21.9.1.v14-USC-11-849
Found post on downgrading; happening now
completed in 30 minutes
can now see old series 3 and familiar GUI!!


----------



## krkaufman

JimWall said:


> How do I upgrade BOLT VOX to full TE4? system info is 21.9.1.v14-USC-11-849


That is the latest TE4.


----------



## DeltaOne

telecomjd said:


> After installing the 3T Toshiba drive, the Bolt does not seem to be running hot. Just wondering if anyone has found the need to upgrade the fan or use a laptop cooler.


Removing the cable card door will help a lot. Putting a USB fan under the Bolt blowing up on the exposed cable card will help a bit more. My son runs a 5-inch USB powered fan from AC Infinity under his Bolt.


----------



## Tony_T

Wouldn't it be better to have the fan blown _away_ from the Bolt?


----------



## ej42137

Tony_T said:


> Wouldn't it be better to have the fan blown _away_ from the Bolt?


That would be almost useless.


----------



## Sonyad

V7Goose said:


> First - full disclosure: I do not personally have this case, so all of my comments are based off the specifications and other user-supplied pictures.
> 
> But I have to wonder if you actually have the same case for which I supplied a link on Amazon? That case specs clearly state that it can use either a SATA or an older IDE drive, so it MUST have a separate power plug. Furthermore, there are some user-supplied pictures on Amazon that do clearly show that. Maybe the SATA connector is a single combined plug? I do not know about that, but I do know it would not make any difference if so - just do not use the combined plug! Instead, simply get a cheap IDE-SATA power adapter (probably no more than a buck).





Sonyad said:


> It has a power plug for the older styled ide drives. However sata drives just slide onto the power and data connectors that are welded to the board. Essentially a single combined plug. They are not separate cables like for connecting ide drives. In fact which type of drive you are installing determines which side of the case you insert it in. This is the enclosure I purchased. Sabrent 3.5" IDE / SATA to USB 2.0 / - Micro Center. I guess I could see how the power adapter works. And I would have to switch the drive placement. I managed to order the Rosewill RX304-APU3-35B case which will arrive tomorrow. I'll see if it works better and I'll keep you and this forum posted.


Okay for a partial update. I received the Rosewill enclosure and I liked it more than the Sabrent, so I returned that one. The Rosewill has the separate connections, the drive was easier to install and it has usb 3.0 connectivity which I wanted for MFS Reformatter. Up until a couple of days ago, I hadn't realized there was a different program than MFS Tools. Reformatter had simple instructions and it was easy to use.

Then the need for a rotary tool hit. Luckily Microcenter has the Inland rotary tool kit for only $7. Thank God for the Internet because the kit came with no instructions. I drilled an opening on my enclosure but I didn't want to drill my Bolt so I just didn't reinstall the narrow cover on the left side of the Bolt. I can live with that for awhile.

The guided setup went fine and I decided to try the My Shows method of transferring shows from my Roamio. However after it finishes I going to use Tivo Online to transfer my Walking Dead and American Test Kitchen recordings in bulk. No way I'm going to do those one by one.

Hopefully things go well so I can put a cable card in the Bolt and get my recordings started. Then before it's deactivated, the Premier shows go to the Roamio.


----------



## DeltaOne

Tony_T said:


> Wouldn't it be better to have the fan blown _away_ from the Bolt?


The fan is blowing up under the Bolt...so the cool air hits the cable card.

Perhaps, in most situations, moving the heat away is the best solution. But the goal here is one thing only...cool off that hot cable card so its heat does not radiate inside the Bolt.


----------



## Tony_T

The Bolt's fan is moving hot air out the bottom of the Bolt, so having an auxiliary fan blowing up could potentially be blowing that hot air back into the Bolt. Just check the IDT before/after up/after down to see which gives the best cooling.


----------



## JoeKustra

DeltaOne said:


> The fan is blowing up under the Bolt...so the cool air hits the cable card.
> Perhaps, in most situations, moving the heat away is the best solution. But the goal here is one thing only...cool off that hot cable card so its heat does not radiate inside the Bolt.


By extension, an OTA Bolt should be cool. I know everyone has an opinion, so here's mine. Get a USB powered 160mm to 180mm quiet fan, running on low and mount it (just let it sit) behind the Bolt blowing that exhaust out the front. See what happens to the ODT. Those AC Infinity fans work well.


----------



## Mikeguy

Tony_T said:


> Wouldn't it be better to have the fan blown _away_ from the Bolt?





ej42137 said:


> That would be almost useless.


Actually, that's a standard practice, to "suction" heat away from a component and thereby suction in further cooler air. A method used by AC Infinity cooling systems.


----------



## Mikeguy

Tony_T said:


> The Bolt's fan is moving hot air out the bottom of the Bolt, so having an auxiliary fan blowing up could potentially be blowing that hot air back into the Bolt. *Just check the IDT before/after up/after down to see which gives the best cooling.*


^ This. The complication being, most fan-based cooling pads seem to be built to blow the air either up (most?) or down, with no easy capability to switch between the two.

Having an up-blowing, fan-based cooling pad, what I can say is that it cools my Bolt box (per the ODT) by a further average 15 degrees C. or so as compared to not using the cooling pad, with the cablecard hatch door removed. (The removal of the cablecard hatch door itself cools the box by 3-4 degrees.) This is with my multi-speed cooling pad set at its lowest, totally-silent (even standing right next to the pad) speed; increasing the speed to the highest level lowers the ODT by another 5 decrees C. or so.*

* A second, more "basic," up-blowing cooling pad confirms these results, lowering the Bolt's ODT by about 10 degrees C. I may experiment with that pad sometime to see what happens to the temp. if I use the pad upside-down.


----------



## DeltaOne

Tony_T said:


> The Bolt's fan is moving hot air out the bottom of the Bolt, so having an auxiliary fan blowing up could potentially be blowing that hot air back into the Bolt. Just check the IDT before/after up/after down to see which gives the best cooling.


We put the fan directly under the cable card. The fan width is such that it stops before interfering with the Bolt's internal fan.


----------



## aaronwt

A long time ago I just swapped out the internal fan. That made a difference. PLus I have a 4TB drive inside. With the newer internal fan, plus being on a wire shelf, I've had no heat issues with my Bolts..


----------



## Mikeguy

DeltaOne said:


> We put the fan directly under the cable card. The fan width is such that it stops before interfering with the Bolt's internal fan.


That seems to be my experience here as well (for the most part), as the Bolt's main bottom fan vents are in a smaller section at one corner of the box, with some other vents at the other corners/the side.


----------



## V7Goose

Sonyad said:


> I didn't want to drill my Bolt so I just didn't reinstall the narrow cover on the left side of the Bolt. I can live with that for awhile.


That is a bad choice unless you do some other extreme cooling options. The poor cooling on the Bolt relies on the weak internal fan to pull air up through the tiny vents on the left and right side bottom edges of the case and blow it out the bottom after some of the air flows over the electronics. With the cover off above the fan, you will get no cooling.

I suggest you put that little cover back on and just leave a crack at the rear for your cable, then use some tape to mostly seal that crack so the normal air flow is not disrupted.


----------



## Sonyad

V7Goose said:


> That is a bad choice unless you do some other extreme cooling options. The poor cooling on the Bolt relies on the weak internal fan to pull air up through the tiny vents on the left and right side bottom edges of the case and blow it out the bottom after some of the air flows over the electronics. With the cover off above the fan, you will get no cooling.
> 
> I suggest you put that little cover back on and just leave a crack at the rear for your cable, then use some tape to mostly seal that crack so the normal air flow is not disrupted.


Thanks for the info. I thought the Bolt heating issues had to do with the internal drives. Also I was misled by a photo I posted earlier which showed the sata cable snaked through an open port in the back of the Bolt, but that's was the usb port and I'm not tearing that apart. I'll just drill the Bolt case and take this opportunity to get a sata extension cable so I can disconnect the drive externally.


----------



## ej42137

Mikeguy said:


> Actually, that's a standard practice, to "suction" heat away from a component and thereby suction in further cooler air. A method used by AC Infinity cooling systems.


Convection cooling systems that actually work by suction must have the air flow constrained to direct the movement of air; without such constraint, suction produces a significantly weaker flow of air than directly blowing. If you don't think this is true, try standing on both sides of a electric fan and see which side cools you and which side does almost nothing for you. Or try cooling your soup by sucking over it.

However well the pictured device does or does not work, it would be working much more efficently blowing air into the device than sucking.


----------



## Tony_T

What IDT do you get with the fan blowing into the Bolt, and what is the temp blowing away?


----------



## forress

Bought a 500 Bolt, installed the Toshiba 3TB, no issues so far for a week. Also wondering what laptop cooler to get? A little confused after reading the posts about the Bolt fan blowing down and laptop cooler blowing up. TIA


----------



## Mikeguy

forress said:


> Bought a 500 Bolt, installed the Toshiba 3TB, no issues so far for a week. Also wondering what laptop cooler to get? A little confused after reading the posts about the Bolt fan blowing down and laptop cooler blowing up. TIA


Check out the AC Infinity fans available via Amazon.com. Some people will get the Multifan S3 or S4 and blow air at and under the box from the side, or likewise with the dual fan S7 model; others will put or have considered putting these fans under the box (I think that this might work especially well with the dual fan models, providing box supports on the two sides or two opposing corners). Another option people have gone with: the AC Infinity Aircom S7, using it like a fan-based cooling pad. A nice thing about the AC Infinity fans: there are variable speed settings, and on the "calmer" end, the fans can be dead quiet.

One thing to note with the air direction: the Bolt box's fan is at the corner, whereas most fans in cooling pads are more centrally located. And so it seems to me that any "conflict" of the air direction would be minimal, at most, and more in the nature of blowing the Bolt box's hot air away than competing with the Bolt box's fan. (Also, if getting one of the AC Infinity standalone fans, you could place the fan(s) to blow either up or down, as you might like.)


----------



## DeltaOne

forress said:


> Bought a 500 Bolt, installed the Toshiba 3TB, no issues so far for a week. Also wondering what laptop cooler to get? A little confused after reading the posts about the Bolt fan blowing down and laptop cooler blowing up. TIA


Removing the cable card door will help just by itself.

We purchased an AC Infinity fan, I think it's the 140mm fan...about 5.5-inches square. We placed the fan under the Bolt's cable card, blowing up on the cable card. This placement does not interfere with the Bolt's fan on the back left corner (blowing out/down).

The fan is USB powered, you can power it from the Bolt's USB port on the rear panel.

I added a small block of wood on the left side...just to help balance the Bolt a little better and keep it level.


----------



## aaronwt

I think my 4TB drive just died tonight. I had the four flashing lights on the Bolt. It was working fine a couple of hours ago.

So if it is actually dead, it lasted around 46 months in Bolts. 
I'll open it up sometime in the next few days and throw in one of the 500GB stock Bolt drives I have.

Sent from my Nexus 7(16GB)


----------



## forress

Thanks for the info, will definitely look into AC Infinity fans. I have the cable card door off since putting in the Toshiba 3TB but want to play it safe and add a fan.

Upgraded from a Roamio, was a little skeptical of Hydra/TE4 at first after reading all the complaints. I'm not ready to say Hail Hydra yet but it hasn't bother me or the wife, we'll probably just keep it.


----------



## Mikeguy

forress said:


> Thanks for the info, will definitely look into AC Infinity fans. I have the cable card door off since putting in the Toshiba 3TB but want to play it safe and add a fan.
> 
> Upgraded from a Roamio, was a little skeptical of Hydra/TE4 at first after reading all the complaints. I'm not ready to say Hail Hydra yet but it hasn't bother me or the wife, we'll probably just keep it.


If you don't mind the expense, the AC Infinity Aircom S7, used as a cooling pad, is very nice, and dead quiet in its low mode (which still cools well); especially nice in a more visible location and where sound is a factor.


----------



## kazak99

aaronwt said:


> I think my 4TB drive just died tonight.


What brand/model drive was it?


----------



## aaronwt

kazak99 said:


> What brand/model drive was it?


It was a Seagate SMR drive with firmware 0001. I put it in a Bolt back in October 2015. Shucked from an external USB drive back then. And it's been running in Bolts since then without any issues.

I left it unplugged over night. An hour ago I plugged it in and it has been working for the last hour. So I'm wondering if I'm having issues with the replacement fan I added a few years ago. I'll leave it running for the next few days to see what happens. Right now I have a fan blowing on the underside just in case. I did perform a backup of my One Passes using KMTTG if/when I need to install a 500GB stock drive to replace the 4TB Seagate.

Sent from my Tab S 10.5


----------



## kazak99

aaronwt said:


> It was a Seagate SMR drive with firmware 0001. I put it in a Bolt back in October 2015. Shucked from an external USB drive back then. And it's been running in Bolts since then without any issues.
> 
> I left it unplugged over night. An hour ago I plugged it in and it has been working for the last hour. So I'm wondering if I'm having issues with the replacement fan I added a few years ago. I'll leave it running for the next few days to see what happens. Right now I have a fan blowing on the underside just in case. I did perform a backup of my One Passes using KMTTG if/when I need to install a 500GB stock drive to replace the 4TB Seagate.
> 
> Sent from my Tab S 10.5


Thanks for sharing your drive info. Good luck, I hope it keeps spinning for you!


----------



## sometivohey

As I'd mentioned in another thread, my 3TB original Tivo Bolt+ drive (WD Blue) died after only about 2 years. Replaced it with a $100 4TB Seagate Barracuda and after 10 days it's still going strong. I think the SMR issue is just nonsense from the past, and for newer drives it just doesn't matter. If it lasts 46 months, it will beat out the WD Blue by twice the lifetime!


----------



## V7Goose

Wow, 10 whole days and still going strong! That certainly tells ME that all the other experiences posted here must be absolute garbage, no matter how much the users' know. 

I'll be sure to follow this newb closely - it is good to FINALLY have somebody here that can give us all the facts and tell us just how the cow ate the cabbage.


----------



## Sparky1234

V7Goose said:


> Wow, 10 whole days and still going strong! That certainly tells ME that all the other experiences posted here must be absolute garbage, no matter how much the users' know.
> 
> I'll be sure to follow this newb closely - it is good to FINALLY have somebody here that can give us all the facts and tell us just how the cow ate the cabbage.


LOL.


----------



## aaronwt

kazak99 said:


> Thanks for sharing your drive info. Good luck, I hope it keeps spinning for you!


So far the drive is still working. I still need to check the fan. But as long as it's working I'll the the 4TB drive in there. Since I am curious how long it will last. Since it's been working for 46 months now.


----------



## Wigohwt

aaronwt said:


> So far the drive is still working. I still need to check the fan. But as long as it's working I'll the the 4TB drive in there. Since I am curious how long it will last. Since it's been working for 46 months now.


Have you considered sector-by-sector cloning it to another 4TB before it fails?


----------



## aaronwt

Wigohwt said:


> Have you considered sector-by-sector cloning it to another 4TB before it fails?


I'm not really worried about it because my TiVos are no longer my primary sources for content. My main concern is the One Passes I have. Since my 4TB Bolt is on FiOS. And it's used as a backup to streaming sources. And I use it to watch news.


----------



## BobCamp1

aaronwt said:


> It was a Seagate SMR drive with firmware 0001. I put it in a Bolt back in October 2015. Shucked from an external USB drive back then. And it's been running in Bolts since then without any issues.
> 
> I left it unplugged over night. An hour ago I plugged it in and it has been working for the last hour. So I'm wondering if I'm having issues with the replacement fan I added a few years ago. I'll leave it running for the next few days to see what happens. Right now I have a fan blowing on the underside just in case. I did perform a backup of my One Passes using KMTTG if/when I need to install a 500GB stock drive to replace the 4TB Seagate.
> 
> Sent from my Tab S 10.5


This is also possible behavior using SMR. Occasionally the write latency will be so large the Linux kernel will panic and think the drive has disappeared. A power cycle should fix the problem.


----------



## aaronwt

BobCamp1 said:


> This is also possible behavior using SMR. Occasionally the write latency will be so large the Linux kernel will panic and think the drive has disappeared. A power cycle should fix the problem.


This had never happened before during the 46 months of use in Bolts.


----------



## BobCamp1

aaronwt said:


> This had never happened before during the 46 months of use in Bolts.


Understood, but maybe the planets aligned in just the wrong way. Once every four years isn't bad if that is what caused the hiccup.


----------



## wyro

Tivogre said:


> I'm finally taking the plunge on an 8TB External Drive for the Bolt + !!!
> 
> Got the recommended Rosewill RX304-APU-35B enclosure and installed an 8TB WD Drive shucked from an easystore ($169 at Best Buy last week).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First step was to cut out a small section of the air intake vent to allow a SATA extension cable (1 male end and 1 female end) to exit the rear of the case:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then, I found a path to run a SATA cable out of the Bolt case, and secured the cable with wire ties to the fan mount screw:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, drilled two 3/8" holes and carefully connected then with a Dremel (back of the Bolt case, just to the right of the metal plate):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Extension cable from drive enclosure mated to SATA cable from the Bolt:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Up and running with 1279HD hours.
> 
> Currently applying updates (probably Hydra)...


This is surely a dumb question, but i've spent an hour trying to figure it out... How did you connect the sata cable to the hard drive?


----------



## JoeKustra

wyro said:


> This is surely a dumb question, but i've spent an hour trying to figure it out... How did you connect the sata cable to the hard drive?


It's not symmetrical. It only fits one way.


----------



## BobCamp1

wyro said:


> This is surely a dumb question, but i've spent an hour trying to figure it out... How did you connect the sata cable to the hard drive?


e r e b o s . n e t » Blog Archive » TiVo Bolt Hard Disk Upgrade and Take Apart

You cut a hole in the Bolt's case.


----------



## V7Goose

wyro said:


> This is surely a dumb question, but i've spent an hour trying to figure it out... How did you connect the sata cable to the hard drive?


You have to open the covers or modify BOTH devices - the Bolt and any external drive enclosure. The post you included in your question shows this exact thing!


----------



## fis

V7Goose said:


> You have to open the covers or modify BOTH devices - the Bolt and any external drive enclosure. The post you included in your question shows this exact thing!


I just removed the cover from the Bolt and left it off (my Bolt is out of sight so who cares...). The original 2.5" hard drive can remain in place (in case you ever want/need to reconnect it). Just unplug the SATA cable connecting the 2.5" drive and plug in the SATA cable from the 3.5" drive.

It's helpful to recognize that you only need two things to make this work: 
1) a SATA connection from the 3.5" drive to the Bolt, and 
2) a power source for the 3.5" drive (the enclosure is just one convenient way to get power to a hard drive).


----------



## aaronwt

My 4TB seagate drive has now been in use for four years in Bolts. Although the other 4TB drive I got crapped out after 2.5 years.


----------



## edwinyuen

V7Goose said:


> You have to open the covers or modify BOTH devices - the Bolt and any external drive enclosure. The post you included in your question shows this exact thing!


You don't HAVE to modify anything. There is enough room in many of the SATA enclosure (not the one pictures but other Rosewells) to fit the cable out when you screw the case down and I have the other end gapped in the top of my 2 Bolts, leaving the top screw off and sealing the gaps in the Bolt with some tape. It can be done easily with any cutting.


----------



## V7Goose

edwinyuen said:


> You don't HAVE to modify anything. There is enough room in many of the SATA enclosure (not the one pictures but other Rosewells) to fit the cable out when you screw the case down and I have the other end gapped in the top of my 2 Bolts, leaving the top screw off and sealing the gaps in the Bolt with some tape. It can be done easily with any cutting.


Is there some reason you are incapable of understanding the word "or" in my response that you quoted?


----------



## Heinrich

I've got 4 flashing lights. I realize it may be a power supply problem or hard drive. I believe hard drive as I had stuttering and pausing/freezing on recordings the weeks prior every so often. The external hard drive route seems pretty easy. HOWEVER if I understand properly, if I got a 2.5" laptop type SATA hard drive and a cloning station for $35 I could swap hard drives and essentially not lose recordings or cablecard pairing. Is it possible to clone the 2.5" to an external 3.5"? I realize I'm making an assumption that the hard drive in the Bolt+ now will actually be accessible when it may actually not be. I might remove it and check first, but, I'm still curious if I can clone 2.5"->3.5"


----------



## Wigohwt

Heinrich said:


> I'm still curious if I can clone 2.5"->3.5"


Of course, as long as the new drive is the same or greater size capacity.

If the clone works, make sure you don't go back to an old, or blank drive, or you will lose your recordings. You can only go forward with a Bolt, and I suspect an Edge is this way as well.

If you find your clone is buggy, then you may have to use kmttg or pyTivo to remove the unprotected recordings to your PC, and then reformat the drive for a fresh start, but one step at a time.

Make sure you test your new HDD, like with WD Diagnostics, prior to use.


----------



## Heinrich

Some very positive results. The Tivo was acting all weird for a couple months. I thought I had some home network flakiness - I have the Bolt+ on the third floor with ethernet throughout the house and most of what I watch is in the living room (first) or the sitting room off master bedroom (second.) I occasionally have DNS conflicts and such ... and I thought I had a networking problem I could not figure out.

Then when watching MLS playoffs off the Bolt+ directly, the entire Bolt+ turned off and wouldn't turn on without some prodding and general sweet talk. That was a few weeks ago. It did come back up ... and was stable until this morning. 4 flashing lights.

So after reading many posts and threads I grabbed a discarded 3.5" WD Red 3TB and used EaseUS Disc Copy 3.5 to do a sector-by sector copy. I wasn't sure what to expect since Windows said the drive essentially was not partitioned so I couldn't do much with it. The program cost me $20. There are free ones but I didn't feel like making a Linux boot and all that hassle. I am on vacation at home and just wanted it to be fixed now so I could keep cuddling with my boyfriend, watching soccer, playing Fifa 20, and farting on the sofa.

Western Digital diagnostics told me I had 1 reallocated sector. I was a little skeptical because I can't imagine that 1 sector would make the thing so flaky. But I plugged the 3.5" WD Red directly into the connectors on the motherboard that already exist for the 2.5". The Tivo booted up, all recordings intact, and cable pairing - and it started recording AHS 1984 immediately - and the recording is good. The unit is far more responsive moving through menus than it has been (which I didn't really notice as an issue other than the freezing times.)

Anyway, I leave this level of detail out there to help someone in the future.

What I don't know is, if this 3.5" is taxing the power supply. I may look for a 3.5" external enclosure with SATA connectors. most I have seen have USB and/or eSATA. It's pretty ugly with the top off...


----------



## UCLABB

Heinrich said:


> Some very positive results. The Tivo was acting all weird for a couple months. I thought I had some home network flakiness - I have the Bolt+ on the third floor with ethernet throughout the house and most of what I watch is in the living room (first) or the sitting room off master bedroom (second.) I occasionally have DNS conflicts and such ... and I thought I had a networking problem I could not figure out.
> 
> Then when watching MLS playoffs off the Bolt+ directly, the entire Bolt+ turned off and wouldn't turn on without some prodding and general sweet talk. That was a few weeks ago. It did come back up ... and was stable until this morning. 4 flashing lights.
> 
> So after reading many posts and threads I grabbed a discarded 3.5" WD Red 3TB and used EaseUS Disc Copy 3.5 to do a sector-by sector copy. I wasn't sure what to expect since Windows said the drive essentially was not partitioned so I couldn't do much with it. The program cost me $20. There are free ones but I didn't feel like making a Linux boot and all that hassle. I am on vacation at home and just wanted it to be fixed now so I could keep cuddling with my boyfriend, watching soccer, playing Fifa 20, and farting on the sofa.
> 
> Western Digital diagnostics told me I had 1 reallocated sector. I was a little skeptical because I can't imagine that 1 sector would make the thing so flaky. But I plugged the 3.5" WD Red directly into the connectors on the motherboard that already exist for the 2.5". The Tivo booted up, all recordings intact, and cable pairing - and it started recording AHS 1984 immediately - and the recording is good. The unit is far more responsive moving through menus than it has been (which I didn't really notice as an issue other than the freezing times.)
> 
> Anyway, I leave this level of detail out there to help someone in the future.
> 
> What I don't know is, if this 3.5" is taxing the power supply. I may look for a 3.5" external enclosure with SATA connectors. most I have seen have USB and/or eSATA. It's pretty ugly with the top off...


I run my external off its own power supply. This allows you to close up the TiVo case. You need a power supply and a molex to sata adapter. I've seen kits sold on line. Or of course you can also use an enclosure with sata to sata connection. I just have had some bad luck with enclosures messing things up.


----------



## pl1

Heinrich said:


> What I don't know is, if this 3.5" is taxing the power supply. I may look for a 3.5" external enclosure with SATA connectors. most I have seen have USB and/or eSATA. It's pretty ugly with the top off...


I'm using this unit for $25 on Amazon with an SATA to Molex with an SATA Device Cable Straight to Left Angle.


----------



## jby114

2.5 in. drives drives aren't too reliable, they also don't have too much capacity. I say 3.5 in. is the only way to go(Western Digital is the only brand to use.). You will need an external power supply of course. Also while your at it the bolt runs awfully hot with it's lid on. I would guess heat is a major cause of early death especially in Bolts and Roamios 

I took the cover off my bolt and put the whole thing including 500g hard drive in a small computer case, with a 3.5 in WD 8tb purple drive. I bought a 55 watt atx power supply on Ebay for $15 to power the drive and an 80 mm fan that came with the case. The odt of the bolt is between 35 and 39, and I have 1283 hrs of recording time. 

I used Msfr to expand the 8tb drive, which was super easy.


----------



## Mikeguy

jby114 said:


> The odt of the bolt is between 35 and 39, *and I have 1283 hrs of recording time*.


We look forward to seeing you in 2030.


----------



## BobCamp1

jby114 said:


> 2.5 in. drives drives aren't too reliable, they also don't have too much capacity. I say 3.5 in. is the only way to go(Western Digital is the only brand to use.).


2.5" drives are very reliable, just not PMR drives over 2 TB in size. And no hard drive likes to be jostled around, but only 2.5" drives are used in laptops.

Also, WD is the second worst hard drive mfr. in reliability, followed only by Seagate. Unfortunately they are the top two in sales volume, mainly due to cost.

So if Bolt users want over 2 TB in size I'd recommend they don't do that. Get a 500 GB or 1 TB hard drive then transfer the shows to a PC hard drive which can be SMR and 8 TB if you want.

The alternate solution is to get a 3.5" drive made by somebody other than WD or Seagate.


----------



## anadelman

pl1 said:


> I'm using this unit for $25 on Amazon with an SATA to Molex with an SATA Device Cable Straight to Left Angle.


What's the purpose of the SATA to Molex cable? Does the enclosure have a Molex connection inside?


----------



## A J Ricaud

BobCamp1 said:


> The alternate solution is to get a 3.5" drive made by somebody other than WD or Seagate.


I'm curious. Besides Toshiba, what other manufacturers are out there and which do you recommend?


----------



## aaronwt

BobCamp1 said:


> 2.5" drives are very reliable, just not PMR drives over 2 TB in size. And no hard drive likes to be jostled around, but only 2.5" drives are used in laptops.
> 
> Also, WD is the second worst hard drive mfr. in reliability, followed only by Seagate. Unfortunately they are the top two in sales volume, mainly due to cost.
> 
> So if Bolt users want over 2 TB in size I'd recommend they don't do that. Get a 500 GB or 1 TB hard drive then transfer the shows to a PC hard drive which can be SMR and 8 TB if you want.
> 
> The alternate solution is to get a 3.5" drive made by somebody other than WD or Seagate.


I can't say that I've had many issues with the hundreds of WD and Seagate drives I've used over the last fifteen years.

I used to use mostly WD platter drives, but now most of the platter drives I use are Seagate. I currently have over fifty Seagate platter drives in use. And around a dozen WD platter drives in use..


----------



## BobCamp1

A J Ricaud said:


> I'm curious. Besides Toshiba, what other manufacturers are out there and which do you recommend?


There aren't any anymore. Samsung was bought by Seagate, and HGST was bought by WD. It sucks that the most reliable brands were bought by the least reliable companies.

Still, HGST ran independently from WD until a couple of years ago, so if you can find an HGST drive that old it'll be good. Otherwise get a Toshiba drive.


----------



## pl1

anadelman said:


> What's the purpose of the SATA to Molex cable? Does the enclosure have a Molex connection inside?


 Correct. In order to use an SATA drive in the enclosure, you slide the drive into the combo plugin adapter. Since we only want to use the power from the enclosure we need to adapt the molex power plug.

This is the manual.


----------



## jby114

WD red or purple 3.5 in. works just fine. Do a search on this site to see what people use most. Certainly not HGST.


----------



## BobCamp1

jby114 said:


> WD red or purple 3.5 in. works just fine. Do a search on this site to see what people use most. Certainly not HGST.


Some of those Purples are SMR.
It's tough because drive manufacturers are starting to hide whether or not their drive is SMR.


----------



## jby114

The WD purple is made for 24/7 recording and playback of video. With a 3 yr. warranty.


----------



## Heinrich

Interestingly enough I got an email from TiVo saying that my hard drive is failing and that they would send me replacement. Of course I want to do that – however, my Frankenstein TiVo is working just fine, and I was able to get all copyright videos copied. If I take them up on their offer, can I use my USB enclosed hard drive as an external hard drive to keep my copyrighted shows? Or do I have no chance since the TiVo motherboard and cable card pairing in all of that is going to change with a replacement TiVo.


----------



## UCLABB

You can't use an external to save programs. If you get a replacement TiVo, your copyrighted programs cannot be saved.


----------



## Evann_Lee

I'm wondering about options as well....my Tivo Addicted housemate is losing his mind, and wjile I'm at this it makes sense to the the 2TB upgrade, though cash is extremely tight so thrift is of the essence. Can you suggest an available 2TB 2.5" drive I can just swap out for the dead one and have work out of the box? My Tivo Bolt is the 500GB model #TCD849500. mANY tHANKS! ---EVANN


----------



## anadelman

pl1 said:


> Correct. In order to use an SATA drive in the enclosure, you slide the drive into the combo plugin adapter. Since we only want to use the power from the enclosure we need to adapt the molex power plug.
> 
> This is the manual.


Thanks. I'll give it a try.


----------



## Phasers

FWIW, I found some used 3TB WD Blue 2.5" drives model WD30NPRZ on ebay for $150 each.

Western Digital WD Blue WD30NPRZ-00YRMT0 3TB SATA 2.5" 6Gb/s | eBay

I bought one, figured if it not as described will open claim.


----------



## Mikeguy

Phasers said:


> FWIW, I found some used 3TB WD Blue 2.5" drives model WD30NPRZ on ebay for $150 each.
> 
> Western Digital WD Blue WD30NPRZ-00YRMT0 3TB SATA 2.5" 6Gb/s | eBay
> 
> I bought one, figured if it not as described will open claim.


Would be nice if the seller had estimated the amount of prior use.


----------



## Davelnlr_




----------



## BobCamp1

According to that table, HGST and Toshiba have low failure rates while WD and Seagate don't.

Didn't an intelligent, experienced, handsome person say that in a previous post? And he is very humble, too. 

That person would also point out that some WD and Seagate models are OK, and others are horrible. The one Tivo was unfortunate enough to pick out for their Bolt+ product doesn't seem up to the task.

He would also note that the Edge products are using 2 TB SMR drives, so even Tivo has given up looking for a CMR (PMR) 2.5" drive.


----------



## bobfrank

Heinrich said:


> Some very positive results. The Tivo was acting all weird for a couple months. I thought I had some home network flakiness - I have the Bolt+ on the third floor with ethernet throughout the house and most of what I watch is in the living room (first) or the sitting room off master bedroom (second.) I occasionally have DNS conflicts and such ... and I thought I had a networking problem I could not figure out.
> 
> Then when watching MLS playoffs off the Bolt+ directly, the entire Bolt+ turned off and wouldn't turn on without some prodding and general sweet talk. That was a few weeks ago. It did come back up ... and was stable until this morning. 4 flashing lights.
> 
> So after reading many posts and threads I grabbed a discarded 3.5" WD Red 3TB and used EaseUS Disc Copy 3.5 to do a sector-by sector copy. I wasn't sure what to expect since Windows said the drive essentially was not partitioned so I couldn't do much with it. The program cost me $20. There are free ones but I didn't feel like making a Linux boot and all that hassle. I am on vacation at home and just wanted it to be fixed now so I could keep cuddling with my boyfriend, watching soccer, playing Fifa 20, and farting on the sofa.
> 
> Western Digital diagnostics told me I had 1 reallocated sector. I was a little skeptical because I can't imagine that 1 sector would make the thing so flaky. But I plugged the 3.5" WD Red directly into the connectors on the motherboard that already exist for the 2.5". The Tivo booted up, all recordings intact, and cable pairing - and it started recording AHS 1984 immediately - and the recording is good. The unit is far more responsive moving through menus than it has been (which I didn't really notice as an issue other than the freezing times.)
> 
> Anyway, I leave this level of detail out there to help someone in the future.
> 
> What I don't know is, if this 3.5" is taxing the power supply. I may look for a 3.5" external enclosure with SATA connectors. most I have seen have USB and/or eSATA. It's pretty ugly with the top off...


Let me clarify this in my own mind. I understand you got the flashing lights and the Bolt wouldn't boot. Then all you did is clone the Bolt hard disk using the EasUS Disc Copy and install the cloned disk into the Bolt. After that, the Bolt worked just fine. Is this all it took?

Thank you in advance for the help.


----------



## Mukwonago

Hello, first post ...... I've been scrolling through the threads and I am a tad bit confused. There is some discussions about versions and of course drive size. Here's what I am up to. I have a TIVO BOLT VOX on order and it will arrive this week. I would like to upgrade the internal hard drive to a larger drive. I assume, being new, it will be running TE4. I'm interested in either a 3tb or 4tb internal drive swap out. Is the TE4 an issue with the drive swapping? Is there a brand of drive or model # I need to use? Can you dumb this down just a smidge for me? I'm just looking to open the case, and replace the new/oem drive with a larger capacity. I'm not opposed to using MFSR though.


----------



## Mikeguy

Mukwonago said:


> Hello, first post ...... I've been scrolling through the threads and I am a tad bit confused. There is some discussions about versions and of course drive size. Here's what I am up to. I have a TIVO BOLT VOX on order and it will arrive this week. I would like to upgrade the internal hard drive to a larger drive. I assume, being new, it will be running TE4. I'm interested in either a 3tb or 4tb internal drive swap out. Is the TE4 an issue with the drive swapping? Is there a brand of drive or model # I need to use? Can you dumb this down just a smidge for me? I'm just looking to open the case, and replace the new/oem drive with a larger capacity. I'm not opposed to using MFSR though.


A pattern that seemed to have been developing with the Bolt box, for a while: as time went on (or possibly with a new firmware release), TE4 boxes with internal user-replaced drives seemed to have drive issues--this didn't seem to occur with TE3 boxes. This seemed to result with various different hard drives, although seemingly not all.


----------



## Mukwonago

In the absence of understanding the issue as to why drives are problematic in this. And I do understand the concept of getting a reliable drive with the appropriate technology and specs. But, my simple brain tells me if you use common sense you should be ok with a drive swap, yet I have read a lot of posts that suggest otherwise. I am thinking that my course is going to be to wait for the unit to arrive. Pull the OEM drive out, and buy the SAME model line/mfg line of the OEM drive but in the 2 or 3TB size, whichever exists. Take the gain that gives me and press on for the time being.


----------



## Mikeguy

Of course, at times, TiVo and its software updates seem to defy common sense in part, especially when issues seem to develop.  I do like your intention, though. 

I should have added earlier: the possible problematic hard drive pattern has never, as far as I am aware, been tied down, and I don't know what the current state is (I'm still on TE3 and, candidly, while I'd like to move one of my TiVo boxes to TE4, issues that I've read about here, including some people having difficulty sidegrading back to TE3 later, give me great pause). But people just started noticing issues after a TE4 software update. It could have just been a coincidence; or, ?


----------



## bobfrank

Mikeguy said:


> Of course, at times, TiVo and its software updates seem to defy common sense in part, especially when issues seem to develop.  I do like your intention, though.
> 
> I should have added earlier: the possible problematic hard drive pattern has never, as far as I am aware, been tied down, and I don't know what the current state is (I'm still on TE3 and, candidly, while I'd like to move one of my TiVo boxes to TE4, issues that I've read about here, *including some people having difficulty sidegrading back to TE3 later*, give me great pause). But people just started noticing issues after a TE4 software update. It could have just been a coincidence; or, ?


Ouch, don't tell me that. I've got a replacement Bolt arriving today due to the dead hard drive issue. I was planning on rapidly upgrading it to TE3. Hopefully the people having problems just haven't been following the directions correctly to make the change.


----------



## Mikeguy

bobfrank said:


> Ouch, don't tell me that. I've got a replacement Bolt arriving today due to the dead hard drive issue. I was planning on rapidly upgrading it to TE3. Hopefully the people having problems just haven't been following the directions correctly to make the change.


Where I've mostly read of an issue (I think) is with people moving to TE4 on their TE3 boxes, and then, after trying TE4 out, trying to go back to TE3. Of course, this all can be way idiosyncratic, including for the reason you mention.


----------



## My Cape is a Recliner

Davelnlr_ said:


>


So what is this based on? Is this not a fair comparison without knowing the details of this test? Am I wrong or is a DVR drive going to be put through more stringent use? Wouldn't you say a normal hard drive, in a computer like this test probably was, is like grandma driving to church on sunday. A dvr drive, (especially when TiVo is recording more than what you want it to), is heavy foot cruising to pedal to the floor lets see how fast it can go. These numbers are most likely not comparing the same stress-level conditions.


----------



## bobfrank

Mikeguy said:


> Where I've mostly read of an issue (I think) is with people moving to TE4 on their TE3 boxes, and then, after trying TE4 out, trying to go back to TE3. Of course, this all can be way idiosyncratic, including for the reason you mention.


I'm going to play with TE4 for a couple of days first. I'm recording some new shows and copying some from my, TE3 Roameo, to the new Bolt. From my first short time with it, I've noticed that there are a lot fewer tiles and more text menus than I remember from my first exposure. I'll report back later with more.


----------



## Mikeguy

bobfrank said:


> I'm going to play with TE4 for a couple of days first. I'm recording some new shows and copying some from my, TE3 Roameo, to the new Bolt. From my first short time with it, I've noticed that there are a lot fewer tiles and more text menus than I remember from my first exposure. I'll report back later with more.


From my recollection from the outside, TiVo moderated TE4 some after its debut, to make it less comical.*

* As in, with a comics-like interface.


----------



## ej42137

My Cape is a Recliner said:


> So what is this based on? Is this not a fair comparison without knowing the details of this test? Am I wrong or is a DVR drive going to be put through more stringent use? Wouldn't you say a normal hard drive, in a computer like this test probably was, is like grandma driving to church on sunday. A dvr drive, (especially when TiVo is recording more than what you want it to), is heavy foot cruising to pedal to the floor lets see how fast it can go. These numbers are most likely not comparing the same stress-level conditions.


A smart guy like you should be able to use Google to find the Backblaze reports, which are freely available online.


----------



## My Cape is a Recliner

ej42137 said:


> A smart guy like you should be able to use Google to find the Backblaze reports, which are freely available online.


You sound like a real piece of work. Get over yourself. I came here to learn and try to help. I proposed a question, and it sounds like you are just trying to show off. Piss off.


----------



## elorimer

My Cape is a Recliner said:


> You sound like a real piece of work. Get over yourself. I came here to learn and try to help. I proposed a question, and it sounds like you are just trying to show off. Piss off.


The Backblaze reports are very interesting and useful to me and while a completely different use case are helpful in understanding drive failure.

First, obviously, these are 3.5 inch consumer drives not 2.5 inch. Second, these stats are over a year old and the last mostly comparable stuff we have since BB has largely moved away from drives in the sizes we might mostly use. Third, I suspect Tivos are mostly writing, while BB is mostly reading: once the data is laid down the sector isn't written to again until it is deleted or rebuilt elsewhere. BB says they have recently increased their scrubs to be as frequent as possible consistent with drive performance, so it is always rereading. I doubt a Tivo ever does a scrub. Fourth, I think they are failing a drive based on the scrubs rather than an actual use of the data.

It does make me think HomeRun is on a better path by separating the low-failure rate of the electronics with the high failure rate of the spinning bits. I wish my Tivos would be able to move data off to my FreeNAS servers and use them from there.


----------



## JoeKustra

bobfrank said:


> I'm going to play with TE4 for a couple of days first. I'm recording some new shows and copying some from my, TE3 Roameo, to the new Bolt. From my first short time with it, I've noticed that there are a lot fewer tiles and more text menus than I remember from my first exposure. I'll report back later with more.


There have been posts indicating that files transferred from TE3 to TE4 will stop playing after ten minutes. I have a few. It's random.

Can't transfer recordings from Roamio to Bolt

Transferring from Roameo to new Bolt - problems, and how?


----------



## bobfrank

JoeKustra said:


> There have been posts indicating that files transferred from TE3 to TE4 will stop playing after ten minutes. I have a few. It's random.
> 
> Can't transfer recordings from Roamio to Bolt
> 
> Transferring from Roameo to new Bolt - problems, and how?


That' good to know. However not much of an issue for me right now. I'm transferring files to the TE4 Tivo just to populate the My Shows menu.


----------



## JoeKustra

bobfrank said:


> That' good to know. However not much of an issue for me right now. I'm transferring files to the TE4 Tivo just to populate the My Shows menu.


If you're curious, on the TE3 box, check:
Setting & Messages
Network Settings
Network Troubleshooting
Transfer History

I'm curious what your transfer speed is showing. Thanks.


----------



## snerd

BobCamp1 said:


> According to that table, HGST and Toshiba have low failure rates while WD and Seagate don't.


I'm not convinced that anything conclusive can be said about Toshiba drives from a sampling of only 191 drives.


----------



## bobfrank

JoeKustra said:


> If you're curious, on the TE3 box, check:
> Setting & Messages
> Network Settings
> Network Troubleshooting
> Transfer History
> 
> I'm curious what your transfer speed is showing. Thanks.


79.80 Mb/s


----------



## ej42137

My Cape is a Recliner said:


> You sound like a real piece of work. Get over yourself. I came here to learn and try to help. I proposed a question, and it sounds like you are just trying to show off. Piss off.


Thanks for your very helpful reply! But unfortunately I did not find any "solution" in your post, and I felt that your argument was poorly reasoned. Please read elorimer's post above for an example of a better discussion of the issue.


----------



## bobfrank

Mikeguy said:


> From my recollection from the outside, TiVo moderated TE4 some after its debut, to make it less comical.*
> 
> * As in, with a comics-like interface.


Other than a strip of tiles at the bottom of the Home screen they seem to have all been removed. The UI is a lot more like TE3 than it was in the beginning. I don't like not having the Live Guide or not being able to upload video files from my PC. Using the back button instead of the left arrow is a pain. Not just the muscle memory, but the fact that I have to look to make sure I've got the back button. I can get the left arrow blindfolded. I do like the ease of turning closed captions on vs TE3.

Still not used to lots of things, but I think I could live with them if I didn't have a choice. I'm still not switching to TE4 until I don't have a choice. Hopefully in the future they'll reinstate uploading files from the PC.


----------



## My Cape is a Recliner

ej42137 said:


> Thanks for your very helpful reply! But unfortunately I did not find any "solution" in your post, and I felt that your argument was poorly reasoned. Please read elorimer's post above for an example of a better discussion of the issue.


No it wasn't a solution, It was a question to try to clarify. "So what is this based on?" Was the first sentence, and should have tipped you off. You clearly go in with your own trash intentions.

Did YOU read the post you are saying I should? It doesn't contradict, it continues it.


----------



## BobCamp1

Mikeguy said:


> A pattern that seemed to have been developing with the Bolt box, for a while: as time went on (or possibly with a new firmware release), TE4 boxes with internal user-replaced drives seemed to have drive issues--this didn't seem to occur with TE3 boxes. This seemed to result with various different hard drives, although seemingly not all.


Yes, there is definitely a software/firmware change in the Tivo which causes compatibility issues, but not reliability issues.

IMO, the reliability issue is that the Bolt+ with their 2.5" 3GB drives are having more problems than usual for a Tivo. So if one gets or has a Tivo+, they should think about replacing that drive.


----------



## BobCamp1

snerd said:


> I'm not convinced that anything conclusive can be said about Toshiba drives from a sampling of only 191 drives.


That is the purpose of the confidence interval in the table (although there should be a percentage along with it, like 95% or 98%). It gives the range in which the actual failure rate lies. You'll observe that the range is wider for lower sample sizes and smaller for higher sample sizes.

Someone else wondered about what "test" Backblaze uses. They are a cloud backup company. It's not a scripted or unscripted test, just a real world use case involving servers.


----------



## BobCamp1

elorimer said:


> The Backblaze reports are very interesting and useful to me and while a completely different use case are helpful in understanding drive failure.
> 
> First, obviously, these are 3.5 inch consumer drives not 2.5 inch. Second, these stats are over a year old and the last mostly comparable stuff we have since BB has largely moved away from drives in the sizes we might mostly use. Third, I suspect Tivos are mostly writing, while BB is mostly reading: once the data is laid down the sector isn't written to again until it is deleted or rebuilt elsewhere. BB says they have recently increased their scrubs to be as frequent as possible consistent with drive performance, so it is always rereading. I doubt a Tivo ever does a scrub. Fourth, I think they are failing a drive based on the scrubs rather than an actual use of the data.
> 
> It does make me think HomeRun is on a better path by separating the low-failure rate of the electronics with the high failure rate of the spinning bits. I wish my Tivos would be able to move data off to my FreeNAS servers and use them from there.


In my experience, 2.5" drives are just as reliable as their 3.5" counterparts if used in the same way. But they are not. A 2.5" drive is usually installed in a notebook which gets knocked around a lot and suffers temperature changes. That environment makes any hard drive less reliable. Plus, all large capacity CMR hard drives are at their density limits, which means that a 2.5" 3 TB CMR hard drive will be less reliable than a 3.5" 3 TB CMR hard drive.

I don't know how much BB writes vs. reads or how to compare that to a Tivo. I don't suspect we'll get a similar table from Tivo owners, so this is the best data we have. I don't think the age matters much, as (commonly-used) hard drive design hasn't made any large leaps this past year. You don't have to throw out data just because it doesn't perfectly match your use case.

I agree that the Tivo+ and anyone in general that ties a large capacity drive to a Tivo is asking for trouble. Keep the daily grinder hard drive small and backup shows to a separate, independent hard drive to create a library there. I understand that due to copy protection, some people can transfer hardly any of their shows. For these people, a 3.5" drive connected to their Bolt makes sense.


----------



## elorimer

BobCamp1 said:


> I don't know how much BB writes vs. reads or how to compare that to a Tivo.


My guesses: both Tivo and BB are constantly writing, and Tivo doesn't read the data again unless you choose to watch a show. If you or it delete a show Tivo might write to those sectors again. BB, on the other hand, is striping a file across 17+3 drives, and as often as it is set to, reads the data and recomputes the checksum value. If it gets an error, it rebuilds the file from the remaining drives. Those reads contribute to the error statistics and lead to concluding a drive has failed and needs to be replaced. With over 120,000 drives, that is four or so a day. Having increased the scrub interval, BB is thinking drives will be replaced earlier than otherwise, but I think BB is failing a drive earlier than Tivo would.

I agree the age of the BB data isn't that important. I just meant that BB is moving on, and we won't see current stats for Tivo-class drives (no more WD, no more <8TB).


----------



## RTNDO128

Is there a readily available 2.5" drive that will work on TE4? I encountered an issue while replacing my dying 500GB factory drive with a 1TB Crucial MX500. I got stuck on "starting up" on TE4, but the same drive works fine once I downgraded to TE3.


----------



## bobfrank

JoeKustra said:


> If you're curious, on the TE3 box, check:
> Setting & Messages
> Network Settings
> Network Troubleshooting
> Transfer History
> 
> I'm curious what your transfer speed is showing. Thanks.


Update. My previous answer regarding transfer speed was from a TE3 Roameo to a TE4 Bolt using Tivo.com to start the transfer.

I've since upgraded the Bolt to TE3 and am now transferring from the TE3 Roameo to the TE3 Bolt. Instead of using Tivo.com I'm starting the transfer from the Bolt directly. The transfer speed is not 116.32 Mb/s. Much better.

I don't know what the speeds should be or what would be considered good or bad. Since you asked, I assume you might know. What do you think about those speeds?


----------



## JoeKustra

bobfrank said:


> Update. My previous answer regarding transfer speed was from a TE3 Roameo to a TE4 Bolt using Tivo.com to start the transfer.
> I've since upgraded the Bolt to TE3 and am now transferring from the TE3 Roameo to the TE3 Bolt. Instead of using Tivo.com I'm starting the transfer from the Bolt directly. The transfer speed is not 116.32 Mb/s. Much better.
> I don't know what the speeds should be or what would be considered good or bad. Since you asked, I assume you might know. What do you think about those speeds?


Sorry. I don't have a Bolt. I only have basic Roamio boxes which never go faster than 100Mbps. BTW, all Online does is send the command to your To Do List. Bolt to Bolt speeds of over 300Mbps have been posted.


----------



## bobfrank

JoeKustra said:


> Sorry. I don't have a Bolt. I only have basic Roamio boxes which never go faster than 100Mbps. BTW, all Online does is send the command to your To Do List. Bolt to Bolt speeds of over 300Mbps have been posted.


I know that the transfers don't go through Tivo.com, they're just initiated there. I just wanted to report all the variables. The transfer is between he same two boxes, Roameo --> Bolt, so the only other difference is both are not on TE3. I also know the Bolt hardware is faster. That probably explains the faster speeds there.


----------



## Phasers

Phasers said:


> FWIW, I found some used 3TB WD Blue 2.5" drives model WD30NPRZ on ebay for $150 each.
> 
> Western Digital WD Blue WD30NPRZ-00YRMT0 3TB SATA 2.5" 6Gb/s | eBay
> 
> I bought one, figured if it not as described will open claim.


As an update to this, I got the drive, installed in a downgraded TE3 Bolt Vox, unplugged at first guided setup screen, plugged to PC and ran MFSR, put back into Tivo, ran guided setup, then upgraded back to TE4 (Hydra) with no issues.

I pulled S.M.A.R.T. stats on the drive while it was plugged into the PC and it had about ~1,350 hours of power on time in the counter. So about ~56 1/2 days. Overall very light usage IMO.


----------



## Mikeguy

Phasers said:


> As an update to this, I got the drive, installed in a downgraded TE3 Bolt Vox, unplugged at first guided setup screen, plugged to PC and ran MFSR, put back into Tivo, ran guided setup, then upgraded back to TE4 (Hydra) with no issues.
> 
> I pulled S.M.A.R.T. stats on the drive while it was plugged into the PC and* it had about ~1,350 hours of power on time in the counter. So about ~56 1/2 days. Overall very light usage IMO.*


Nice--thanks for the follow-up report. And the drive is still available.  Almost tempted to pick one up as a reserve drive.


----------



## Phasers

Mikeguy said:


> Nice--thanks for the follow-up report. And the drive is still available.  Almost tempted to pick one up as a reserve drive.


Update: Drive failing after less than 48 hours in the TiVo. Keeps making a squeaking noise and TiVo keeps rebooting/freezing randomly. Had to revert to factory drive.


----------



## aaronwt

I've had almost fifty months on a 4TB drive that has been in Bolts since October 2015. Still working fine in a Bolt with Hydra. 

I am curious how long it will last. But it is still getting a workout. Recording dozens of programs for around twenty hours each day.

Sent from my Nexus 7(16GB)


----------



## Mikeguy

Phasers said:


> Update: Drive failing after less than 48 hours in the TiVo. Keeps making a squeaking noise and TiVo keeps rebooting/freezing randomly. Had to revert to factory drive.


 That's not amusing. Does that mean it goes back to the seller (for a replacement?)?


aaronwt said:


> I've had almost fifty months on a 4TB drive that has been in Bolts since October 2015. Still working fine in a Bolt with Hydra.
> 
> I am curious how long it will last. But it is still getting a workout. Recording dozens of programs for around twenty hours each day.


As I'm too lazy to research it, which manf./model is it? Do I recall correctly that you were an outlier and that it's a shingled drive?


----------



## aaronwt

Mikeguy said:


> That's not amusing. Does that mean it goes back to the seller (for a replacement?)?
> 
> As I'm too lazy to research it, which manf./model is it? Do I recall correctly that you were an outlier and that it's a shingled drive?


Yes it was shingled drive with I think firmware 0001. From a Seagate external drive that I pulled the drive out of. People with later firmware versions had a bunch of issues.

And I did have a second one that had issues two years ago. But so far this one has been fine. I will run it until it dies. And if/when it does I will just replace it with one of the five, 500GB stock Bolt drives I have lying around.

Although I do have some shows on there that I would like to watch sometime. That can't be transferred off the box because they were on a Fox owned channel or HBO owned channel.


----------



## Phasers

Mikeguy said:


> That's not amusing. Does that mean it goes back to the seller (for a replacement?)?


Yes, going back for a refund.

Just ordered this 2TB Toshiba brand new for $49.99: goHardDrive.com - Toshiba MQ03ABB200 2TB 5400RPM 16MB Cache (15mm) SATA 6.0Gb/s 2.5'' Mobile Hard Drive - 3 Year Warranty

Reports seem to indicate it will work with TE4 (Hydra). Will update once it arrives and I have done the swap.


----------



## Mikeguy

Phasers said:


> Yes, going back for a refund.
> 
> Just ordered this 2TB Toshiba brand new for $49.99: goHardDrive.com - Toshiba MQ03ABB200 2TB 5400RPM 16MB Cache (15mm) SATA 6.0Gb/s 2.5'' Mobile Hard Drive - 3 Year Warranty
> 
> Reports seem to indicate it will work with TE4 (Hydra). Will update once it arrives and I have done the swap.


Super price! And the 2TB version of the 3TB Toshiba 2.5" hard drive that often had been recommended here earlier. Good luck with it!


----------



## Mukwonago

I'm going external. Drive should be here tomorrow. A WD 3TB Red. Going to power it externally and modify the case a tad to get the cable through.


----------



## multiple

I wonder if a moderator could add the following link to the first message of this thread which contains a list of drives which don't work under TE4.

List of drives that don't boot under TE4 21.x on Bolt


----------



## richsadams

Phasers said:


> Yes, going back for a refund.
> 
> Just ordered this 2TB Toshiba brand new for $49.99: goHardDrive.com - Toshiba MQ03ABB200 2TB 5400RPM 16MB Cache (15mm) SATA 6.0Gb/s 2.5'' Mobile Hard Drive - 3 Year Warranty
> 
> Reports seem to indicate it will work with TE4 (Hydra). Will update once it arrives and I have done the swap.


Looking forward to your feedback. :thumbsup: Wish there was still a 3TB version.

All of the reviews on Amazon are positive, posted by folks that have installed them in Bolts:

*TOSHIBA MQ03ABB200 2.5 2TB 5400RPM SATA *


----------



## Mikeguy

richsadams said:


> Looking forward to your feedback. :thumbsup: Wish there was still a 3TB version.
> 
> All of the reviews on Amazon are positive, posted by folks that have installed them in Bolts:
> 
> *TOSHIBA MQ03ABB200 2.5 2TB 5400RPM SATA *


The Toshiba 3TB 2.5" hard drive still is around, but at higher prices. An exception: Grooves.land, located in Germany and the UK and selling worldwide with free shipping, per the item page, with a great price if it's all true and the drive is in stock. Toshiba - MQ03ABB300 - Festplatte - 3TB - intern - 6,4 cm (2.5") - SATA 6Gb/s - 5400 U/min - Puffer: 16MB (MQ03ABB300) - Toshiba Hardware/Electronic Grooves Inc.


----------



## richsadams

Mikeguy said:


> The Toshiba 3TB 2.5" hard drive still is around, but at higher prices. An exception: Grooves.land, located in Germany and the UK and selling worldwide with free shipping, per the item page, with a great price if it's all true and the drive is in stock. Toshiba - MQ03ABB300 - Festplatte - 3TB - intern - 6,4 cm (2.5") - SATA 6Gb/s - 5400 U/min - Puffer: 16MB (MQ03ABB300) - Toshiba Hardware/Electronic Grooves Inc.


Very good price/option. :thumbsup:


----------



## Doc Holiday

richsadams said:


> Very good price/option. :thumbsup:


Can't go wrong... I just crossed over 3 years of always-on service in my Bolt with my Toshiba 2TB. Still going strong. I'll probably run it for another year or two before I clone it to a new a drive.


----------



## Mukwonago

I'm on day 1 of my Bolt Vox, on Spectrum, with a 3TB WD RED drive external. So far so good. It took 2 calls to Spectrum to get it all working. The reps at Spectrum were very helpful, but the Tuner Assist is was required a second call. I had a solid light after the first call though, so not sure why/what really happened. I can't hear any noise from the WD Drive. It's literally sitting in the cabinet with the Bolt, no case at all. I also installed a Mini at the same time, house has Ethernet everywhere so that was fairly simple.


----------



## multiple

Mikeguy said:


> The Toshiba 3TB 2.5" hard drive still is around, but at higher prices. An exception: Grooves.land, located in Germany and the UK and selling worldwide with free shipping, per the item page, with a great price if it's all true and the drive is in stock. Toshiba - MQ03ABB300 - Festplatte - 3TB - intern - 6,4 cm (2.5") - SATA 6Gb/s - 5400 U/min - Puffer: 16MB (MQ03ABB300) - Toshiba Hardware/Electronic Grooves Inc.


Mike, Are you on TE3 or TE4? I saw a report from someone installing a new MQ03ABB300 that their Bolt is longer booting on TE4. I know this is/was a very popular drive, so if this drive is now affected by TE4, I would expect to see a lot of reports of failures.


----------



## Mikeguy

multiple said:


> Mike, Are you on TE3 or TE4? I saw a report from someone installing a new MQ03ABB300 that their Bolt is longer booting on TE4. I know this is/was a very popular drive, so if this drive is now affected by TE4, I would expect to see a lot of reports of failures.


TE3 here, and also wondering if TE4 "plays nice" with the drive.


----------



## Phasers

multiple said:


> Mike, Are you on TE3 or TE4? I saw a report from someone installing a new MQ03ABB300 that their Bolt is longer booting on TE4. I know this is/was a very popular drive, so if this drive is now affected by TE4, I would expect to see a lot of reports of failures.





Mikeguy said:


> TE3 here, and also wondering if TE4 "plays nice" with the drive.


I'll let you both know on the 2TB version of the drive as soon as it comes in (hopefully later today).


----------



## Phasers

*As promised*, I installed the Toshiba MQ03ABB200 2TB drive into my Bolt Vox tonight. It was running TE4 (21.9.6.v5-USC-11-849 to be exact) with the stock 500GB drive prior to the upgrade.

I simply unplugged the Bolt, swapped the drive, and power it back on. No MFS Reformatter or anything else.

After powering up it went to the Tivo TE4 "Starting Up" Screen and sat there for a few minutes. I walked into the other room for a minute and when I came back it was sitting at the initial guided setup screen. I ran through guided setup (antenna only) and everything seems to be working. I also forced another connection to TiVo after it came up which seemed to download a lot of data (more guide data I presume?).

Granted it has only been done for an hour now but thus far everything seems to be working. I will let it sit overnight and then use TiVo online to start transferring my shows over from my 3TB Roamio.

edit: For those of you interested, system info shows me at 317 hrs HD capacity, 315 of which are available.


----------



## Luke M

Phasers, what's the noise level like on the 2TB Toshiba compared with the WD 500GB?


----------



## Phasers

Luke M said:


> Phasers, what's the noise level like on the 2TB Toshiba compared with the WD 500GB?


Honestly, I think the drive itself is a bit quieter.

I also added this fan: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MWH4FL4/ which is whisper quiet as well, plugged into one of the USB ports on the back of the Bolt. I positioned it with the corner underneath the Bolt exhaust fan, blowing away from the Bolt (basically sucking air from the bolt exhaust fan and blowing it away from the unit). On high, the ODT went from 69 to the low 50s.

I actually just bought another drive and fan for another Bolt in the house.


----------



## azmp1

So am I understanding correctly, Toshiba drives are better/more reliable than the WD Blue drives?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## marcv

After drive upgrade do you lose season passes, sorting settings for shows or just the stuff that was recorded only? I just got a Bolt Vox 500GB and I can see it eating up storage way too fast. Looking for a good 2 or 3TB drive to swap in but want to know if I have to redo all my User settings, season passes, etc. I am ok if just losing the couple dozen shows recorded on the 500GB


----------



## ggieseke

marcv said:


> After drive upgrade do you lose season passes, sorting settings for shows or just the stuff that was recorded only? I just got a Bolt Vox 500GB and I can see it eating up storage way too fast. Looking for a good 2 or 3TB drive to swap in but want to know if I have to redo all my User settings, season passes, etc. I am ok if just losing the couple dozen shows recorded on the 500GB


On a standard drive swap (just sticking in a blank drive) you lose everything. kmttg can back up your season passes and channel settings.


----------



## Davelnlr_

RTNDO128 said:


> Is there a readily available 2.5" drive that will work on TE4? I encountered an issue while replacing my dying 500GB factory drive with a 1TB Crucial MX500. I got stuck on "starting up" on TE4, but the same drive works fine once I downgraded to TE3.


I was planning on replacing my drive with a MX500 series if it goes out again. How does the solid state drive perform with TE3? That is my software version


----------



## Davelnlr_

bobfrank said:


> Ouch, don't tell me that. I've got a replacement Bolt arriving today due to the dead hard drive issue. I was planning on rapidly upgrading it to TE3. Hopefully the people having problems just haven't been following the directions correctly to make the change.


My replacement bolt vox came with TE4. It took several (about 12) tries before it 'took' the side load back to TE3.


----------



## bobfrank

Davelnlr_ said:


> My replacement bolt vox came with TE4. It took several (about 12) tries before it 'took' the side load back to TE3.


Not sure what the problem was for you or why you had it. My replacement Bolt came with TE4, of course, After playing with it for a day I upgraded to TE3 very easily. First try, no problems. I've gone through the upgrade from TE4 to TE3 a couple times before without any trouble either.

Glad you finally got it to work. That's the important thing.


----------



## aaronwt

Isn't that a downgrade? Going from TE4 to TE3?

Sent from my Nexus 7(32GB)


----------



## richsadams

aaronwt said:


> Isn't that a downgrade? Going from TE4 to TE3?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7(32GB)


Depends on your point of view.


----------



## Mikeguy

aaronwt said:


> Isn't that a downgrade? Going from TE4 to TE3?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7(32GB)


Not - in - the - least.


----------



## tommage1

Doc Holiday said:


> Can't go wrong... I just crossed over 3 years of always-on service in my Bolt with my Toshiba 2TB. Still going strong. I'll probably run it for another year or two before I clone it to a new a drive.


That is what I like to hear. With Bolts, since can't keep a backup drive and 2.5" drives don't really last as long as 3.5 the best thing to do is clone to a new drive every few years. Heck even if using a 3.5 good idea to clone occasionally, drives are pretty cheap now (depending on size), good to be safe. Also good idea when doing a clone to test the new drive before using, even new drives can have problems. EXTENSIVE test like NAS users do, not just a basic test.


----------



## bobfrank

aaronwt said:


> Isn't that a downgrade? Going from TE4 to TE3?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7(32GB)


Absolutely not. For some of us at least. Partly depends on if you miss the features that are not available on TE4.


----------



## azmp1

azmp1 said:


> So am I understanding correctly, Toshiba drives are better/more reliable than the WD Blue drives?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Folks any suggestion here? Should I get wd blue or toshiba drive?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Phasers

azmp1 said:


> Folks any suggestion here? Should I get wd blue or toshiba drive?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Having tried both recently, the Toshiba MQ03ABB200 2TB drive is the best bank for the buck right now, and doesn't have any issues with TE4.

I purchased here for $50: goHardDrive.com - Toshiba MQ03ABB200 2TB 5400RPM 16MB Cache (15mm) SATA 6.0Gb/s 2.5'' Mobile Hard Drive - 3 Year Warranty


----------



## azmp1

Phasers said:


> Having tried both recently, the Toshiba MQ03ABB200 2TB drive is the best bank for the buck right now, and doesn't have any issues with TE4.
> 
> I purchased here for $50: goHardDrive.com - Toshiba MQ03ABB200 2TB 5400RPM 16MB Cache (15mm) SATA 6.0Gb/s 2.5'' Mobile Hard Drive - 3 Year Warranty


Great, thanks!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Mikeguy

Phasers said:


> Having tried both recently, the Toshiba MQ03ABB200 2TB drive is the best bank for the buck right now, and doesn't have any issues with TE4.
> 
> I purchased here for $50: goHardDrive.com - Toshiba MQ03ABB200 2TB 5400RPM 16MB Cache (15mm) SATA 6.0Gb/s 2.5'' Mobile Hard Drive - 3 Year Warranty


You really should be more honest in your posts: you purchased it for $49.99.  Such a killer find and deal (with or without the $.01)--and with free shipping, no less! Would be tempted to buy one, "just in case."


----------



## azmp1

Mikeguy said:


> You really should be more honest in your posts: you purchased it for $49.99.  Such a killer find and deal (with or without the $.01)--and with free shipping, no less! Would be tempted to buy one, "just in case."


That really is a great deal. What about toshiba 3tb? Are those just as good?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Mikeguy

azmp1 said:


> That really is a great deal. What about toshiba 3tb? Are those just as good?


They long have been a favorite for upgrading the hard drive (model MQ03ABB300), and seem to have performed well. The only issue is, they no longer are manufactured and the price has gone up dramatically as the sales locations have evaporated--a further reason the 2TB found by @Phasers is such a find, beyond the excellent price. The best I've seen currently for the 3TB is from grooves.land in the UK/Germany--I haven't purchased from them, but they seem to be a well-established business and ship internationally (with free ship), and the price is as low as it ever has been in the U.S. See: Bolt Hard Drive Upgrade Choice.


----------



## pl1

Mikeguy said:


> You really should be more honest in your posts: you purchased it for $49.99.  Such a killer find and deal (with or without the $.01)--and with free shipping, no less! Would be tempted to buy one, "just in case."


I bought one off of Amazon (I had gift certificates to burn) and they are charging $59.99 shipped by the same company. The 3 year warranty is honored by the company, which is great. The drive is whisper quiet and cool. With an additional fan, my Bolt is currently 37 ODT.


----------



## richsadams

Mikeguy said:


> You really should be more honest in your posts: you purchased it for $49.99.  Such a killer find and deal (with or without the $.01)--and with free shipping, no less! Would be tempted to buy one, "just in case."


Sweet! Looks like Amazon has the Toshiba MQ03ABB200 as well, just in case ($54.99 w/free shipping at the moment). I like their 30 day no questions asked return policy.

https://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-MQ03...ords=Toshiba+MQ03ABB200&qid=1577316161&sr=8-3


----------



## richsadams

I happened to stumble across the coveted Toshiba MQ03ABB300 *3TB HDD* 2.5" on eBay just now. $120 shipped from California:

Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3 TB 5400RPM 2.5" SATA 6.0Gb/s Hard Drive 15mm 696859079580 | eBay

I don't know anything about the seller, but they've been on eBay since 2000 and have a 99.3% rating from over 67,000 buyers. The listing says they still have seven more.

So although I just replaced our Bolt+ I went ahead and ordered one as a backup. I still have the Bolt+ on TE3 so I might try slipping it in to see how it does and report back.

That's a little more than @Mikeguy found them for at the German supplier, but worth a try I guess.


----------



## Mikeguy

richsadams said:


> Sweet! Looks like Amazon has the Toshiba MQ03ABB200 as well, just in case ($54.99 w/free shipping at the moment). I like their 30 day no questions asked return policy.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-MQ03...ords=Toshiba+MQ03ABB200&qid=1577316161&sr=8-3





richsadams said:


> I happened to stumble across the coveted Toshiba MQ03ABB300 *3TB HDD* 2.5" on eBay just now. $120 shipped from California:
> 
> Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3 TB 5400RPM 2.5" SATA 6.0Gb/s Hard Drive 15mm 696859079580 | eBay
> 
> I don't know anything about the seller, but they've been on eBay since 2000 and have a 99.3% rating from over 67,000 buyers. The listing says they still have seven more.
> 
> So although I just replaced our Bolt+ I went ahead and ordered one as a backup. I still have the Bolt+ on TE3 so I might try slipping it in to see how it does and report back.
> 
> That's a little more than @Mikeguy found them for at the German supplier, but worth a try I guess.


Both of those are super deals, and the 3TB reflecting the low price from earlier, when it was more available! :up: Would be tempted to pick up one or the other as a backup as well.


----------



## Mikeguy

Mikeguy said:


> They long have been a favorite for upgrading the hard drive (model MQ03ABB300), and seem to have performed well. The only issue is, they no longer are manufactured and the price has gone up dramatically as the sales locations have evaporated--a further reason the 2TB found by @Phasers is such a find, beyond the excellent price. The best I've seen currently for the 3TB is from grooves.land in the UK/Germany--I haven't purchased from them, but they seem to be a well-established business and ship internationally (with free ship), and the price is as low as it ever has been in the U.S. See: Bolt Hard Drive Upgrade Choice.


Just came across the UK/German seller, grooves.land, on eBay, selling the MQ03ABB300 hard drive for ~$147 there (its current website price at grooves.land: ~$110). The company indeed seems to be legit., getting a 99.1% positive rating over more that 200,000 transactions. eBay Feedback Profile for groovesland


----------



## richsadams

Mikeguy said:


> Just came across the UK/German seller, grooves.land, on eBay, selling the MQ03ABB300 hard drive for ~$147 there (its current website price at grooves.land: ~$110). The company indeed seems to be legit., getting a 99.1% positive rating over more that 200,000 transactions. eBay Feedback Profile for groovesland


$147? Yikes! Better to buy direct.

Still $120 from this other eBay seller, but only shows 4 left now.


----------



## Mikeguy

richsadams said:


> $147? Yikes! Better to buy direct.


Absolutely. I just was interested to see the eBay status and feedback, not having come across this company before and wondering if it is legit.--good to see that it is, and a seeming good source for the drive.


> Still $120 from this other eBay seller, but only shows 4 left now.


And with the advantage of the seller being U.S. domestic, should there be any issue with the drive and a need to return it (and with the eBay buyer protections there as well).


----------



## richsadams

Mikeguy said:


> And with the advantage of the seller being U.S. domestic, should there be any issue with the drive and a need to return it (and with the eBay buyer protections there as well).


While supplies last as they say. 

The drives carry a three-year warranty, but I wonder if either seller is an authorized Toshiba retailer and if that still applies? And then, if the drive goes south, what would Toshiba do since the 3TB drive is no longer manufactured?


----------



## Mikeguy

richsadams said:


> While supplies last as they say.
> 
> The drives carry a three-year warranty, but I wonder if either seller is an authorized Toshiba retailer and if that still applies? And then, if the drive goes south, what would Toshiba do since the 3TB drive is no longer manufactured?


I've wondered those same things--hopefully, I'll never need to know with my own drive.  Do warranties only apply for "authorized retailers"?


----------



## richsadams

Mikeguy said:


> I've wondered those same things--hopefully, I'll never need to know with my own drive.  Do warranties only apply for "authorized retailers"?


That's been my experience, but I've never had a Toshiba drive go bad!


----------



## richsadams

Just noted that there's a third-party Amazon seller offering the Toshiba 3TB MQ03ABB300 2.5" drive for $130 shipped:

Amazon.com: Buying Choices: Toshiba 2.5 3TB 5400RPM SATA HDD for External Storage - (MQ03ABB300)

This eBay seller still has 4 as of now for $120 shipped:

Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3 TB 5400RPM 2.5" SATA 6.0Gb/s Hard Drive 15mm 696859079580 | eBay

(They should give me a commission!  )


----------



## marcv

Is there any reason I could not just yank out the old 500GB Bolt hard drive and use this WD 3.5" drive (uses 4.1 watts idle and 4.4 watts writing/reading) directly into the SATA port inside the tivo assuming I am leaving the Bolt cover off the unit so it will fit? I would just have it lay next to it close enough that the Tivo SATA cable in there will reach or just get a little extension SATA cable if it needs to be a little longer and not sit loosely where the old 2.5" was.

This is the drive: https://amzn.to/2FFfCV7

I've read people using externals because of the power requirements but also now reading the Tivo SATA port should be able to power a drive up to 5 watts on its own so wouldn't even need the enclosure if this is the case. This would just be a quick easy way to McGyver it together since it's in a closet and I don't care if the cover is off and a drive hangs out loose. Aesthetics are meaningless. Pure function over form. Thoughts?


----------



## Phasers

marcv said:


> Is there any reason I could not just yank out the old 500GB Bolt hard drive and use this WD 3.5" drive (uses 4.1 watts idle and 4.4 watts writing/reading) directly into the SATA port inside the tivo assuming I am leaving the Bolt cover off the unit so it will fit? I would just have it lay next to it close enough that the Tivo SATA cable in there will reach or just get a little extension SATA cable if it needs to be a little longer and not sit loosely where the old 2.5" was.
> 
> This is the drive: https://amzn.to/2FFfCV7
> 
> I've read people using externals because of the power requirements but also now reading the Tivo SATA port should be able to power a drive up to 5 watts on its own so wouldn't even need the enclosure if this is the case. This would just be a quick easy way to McGyver it together since it's in a closet and I don't care if the cover is off and a drive hangs out loose. Aesthetics are meaningless. Pure function over form. Thoughts?


I've read that not all drives work with TE4. Not sure about the above WD Purple drive.


----------



## jcliff

marcv said:


> Is there any reason I could not just yank out the old 500GB Bolt hard drive and use this WD 3.5" drive (uses 4.1 watts idle and 4.4 watts writing/reading) directly into the SATA port inside the tivo assuming I am leaving the Bolt cover off the unit so it will fit? I would just have it lay next to it close enough that the Tivo SATA cable in there will reach or just get a little extension SATA cable if it needs to be a little longer and not sit loosely where the old 2.5" was.
> 
> This is the drive: https://amzn.to/2FFfCV7
> 
> I've read people using externals because of the power requirements but also now reading the Tivo SATA port should be able to power a drive up to 5 watts on its own so wouldn't even need the enclosure if this is the case. This would just be a quick easy way to McGyver it together since it's in a closet and I don't care if the cover is off and a drive hangs out loose. Aesthetics are meaningless. Pure function over form. Thoughts?


Is there a reason you wouldn't just buy a 2.5" drive to begin with?

One reason not to use that drive is because it's geared for CCTV. Drives like that are tweaked with the assumption that ~90% of the time will be writing data, and only a very small percentage of time reading data.


----------



## marcv

jcliff said:


> Is there a reason you wouldn't just buy a 2.5" drive to begin with?
> 
> One reason not to use that drive is because it's geared for CCTV. Drives like that are tweaked with the assumption that ~90% of the time will be writing data, and only a very small percentage of time reading data.


yes. It seems 3GB 2.5" drives that work or are available now are in short supply. I bought this one because it is PMR so figured it would work ok. This drive will be writing constantly with the four tuners and only reading one. Hopefully it can keep up. I have the drive and enclosure in house now but have not done the drive swap yet


----------



## jcliff

marcv said:


> yes. It seems 3GB 2.5" drives that work or are available now are in short supply. I bought this one because it is PMR so figured it would work ok. This drive will be writing constantly with the four tuners and only reading one. Hopefully it can keep up. I have the drive and enclosure in house now but have not done the drive swap yet


I gotcha.

I decided to roll the dice and upgrade on of my Bolts with a dreaded Seagate *SMR* drive that I bought off eBay for $80:

https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Backup-External-Drive-Portable/dp/B07MY44VNM/

So far it seems to be working and I've even tried stressing it by recording on all tuners. I guess we'll really see as time passes and the drive fills up. This is on my bedroom/secondary Bolt so if it dies then it's not a disaster. And I'll have done it for SCIENCE.

I also bought one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08231HZPW/

Which is the Toshiba MQ03ABB200 2TB drive mentioned by Phasers, just via GoHardDrive's Amazon listing. At $50 it's hard to resist, especially since the 3TB version seems to sell for ~$130.



Phasers said:


> Just ordered this 2TB Toshiba brand new for $49.99: goHardDrive.com - Toshiba MQ03ABB200 2TB 5400RPM 16MB Cache (15mm) SATA 6.0Gb/s 2.5'' Mobile Hard Drive - 3 Year Warranty
> 
> Reports seem to indicate it will work with TE4 (Hydra). Will update once it arrives and I have done the swap.


I haven't installed it yet, but it seems legit. Despite being discontinued, it appears that the batch of drives GoHardDrive is selling are in "new"/unused condition. Here's CrystalDiskInfo:


----------



## afairbairn

tommage1 said:


> That is what I like to hear. With Bolts, since can't keep a backup drive and 2.5" drives don't really last as long as 3.5 the best thing to do is clone to a new drive every few years. Heck even if using a 3.5 good idea to clone occasionally, drives are pretty cheap now (depending on size), good to be safe. Also good idea when doing a clone to test the new drive before using, even new drives can have problems. EXTENSIVE test like NAS users do, not just a basic test.


Any tips on how to clone the drive? I have a bolt with and external enclosure and 3TB drive that I think is dying.


----------



## Tony_T

afairbairn said:


> Any tips on how to clone the drive? I have a bolt with and external enclosure and 3TB drive that I think is dying.


If the drive is dying, consider using ddrescue to clone the drive.
Done successfully here


----------



## aaronwt

Well my last 4TB Seagate died around 15 minutes ago. I got the four flashing lights. It lasted 53 months. I've already replaced it with a stock, 500GB, bolt drive.

Now I just need to get my cable card re-paired. Or I'll just order another one to replace it. Since that seems to be the easiest way with FiOS. Since the last time I had a tech on the phone/chat try to pair it, they enabled the cable card useless. And I couldn't receive any channels. At least right now I can get most of the FiOS channels. Except the ones that require pairing. Like Fox owned channels.


----------



## leswar

Sorry to hear. I'm sure everyone was following that hd with original firmware v.1. Four years not bad for a 2.5" hd.


----------



## Mikeguy

aaronwt said:


> Well my last 4TB Seagate died around 15 minutes ago. I got the four flashing lights. It lasted 53 months. I've already replaced it with a stock, 500GB, bolt drive.


----------



## Godmode

Had the same issue yesterday with the Shucked 4TB Seagate. Had it about year and a half though. Wonder if the software just had a weird error and I should just reinstall it. I did just downgrade TiVo versions a week ago.


----------



## aaronwt

Mine is definitely dead. It's doing the same thing as my first one did. The hard drive powers up and spins for a short time and then it stops spinning.


----------



## tommage1

Mikeguy said:


> I've wondered those same things--hopefully, I'll never need to know with my own drive.  Do warranties only apply for "authorized retailers"?


Here is the way drive warranties work, at least in my experience.

Regular disk based hard drives.

The warranty is from the manufacturing date on the drive. Not the purchase date. And does not matter where you bought from, authorized or not, new or used, strictly the manufacturing date on the drive. The thing that might come into play (but should not) is if an owner along the way actually registered the drive with the manufacturer. Some implications, if you buy a discontinued drive the manufacturing date could be well into the past, even to the point where there could be little or no manufacturer's warranty left, even if brand new. In some of those cases (like drives from goharddrive), the SELLER will warranty the drive themselves, THEY will replace during the warranty period they advertise. Only problem could be if they run out of stock on your model they might not be able to replace with the same model. In all cases should check the manufacturer web site with your serial number to see warranty status. And check with seller how they will handle the advertised warranty if the manufacturer warranty is less than or non existent due to manufacturing date based warranty. One other thing, drives shucked from enclosures will have no warranty as shucked, you MIGHT be able to get some warranty if you put it back into the enclosure and have appropriate documentation. And drives that came installed in some other equipment, like a PC or DVR also will most likely not be covered, by the drive manufacturer at least.

SSDs.

A lot different, at least from what I have seen. First of all warranty starts from the PURCHASE date. Also the warranty is good only for the ORIGINAL BUYER, does not transfer. Also drive DOES need to be purchased from an authorized seller. And you will need an actual receipt. WAY different than disk based hard drive warranties.

What I am posting is based on what I have experienced and read over time. Not sure if the same for ALL manufacturers and/or the latest firmware specialty drives (NAS, AV, Enterprise etc). In all cases when buying keep your receipts. And check warranty status with serial number at manufacturer site when you get the drive. If hard drive from third party seller write them to see how they handle advertised warranty if the actual manufacturer warranty ends up being less due to manufacturing date, can come into play with many discontinued model drives.


----------



## Tony_T

Is Toshiba still being recommended for the Bolt?
If so, there's a 1T, 2T and 4T available at OWC:
Toshiba 2.5" 5400RPM Serial-ATA (SATA) Hard Drives​
(FWIW, I'm still using the recommended WD20NPVZ 2T that is no longer available)


----------



## aaronwt

The only time I've had a manufacturer go by the manufacture date on the drive, is when I didn't have a purchase receipt. Otherwise, my experience with Western Digital and Seagate for Hard drive warranties, has been based on my purchase date.


----------



## aaronwt

Tony_T said:


> Is Toshiba still being recommended for the Bolt?
> If so, there's a 1T, 2T and 4T available at OWC:
> Toshiba 2.5" 5400RPM Serial-ATA (SATA) Hard Drives​
> (FWIW, I'm still using the recommended WD20NPVZ 2T that is no longer available)


I put the Toshiba 1TB drive in a Bolt last week. I had pulled it from my launch pS4 Pro, back in 2016. So far it has been working great in the Bolt.


----------



## Tony_T

aaronwt said:


> I put the Toshiba 1TB drive in a Bolt last week. I had pulled it from my launch pS4 Pro, back in 2016. So far it has been working great in the Bolt.


Are any of these on OWC PMR or are they all SMR. The 4T is a 15mm, so maybe that one is PMR?
(I tried to find info on this but couldn't find it)


----------



## Mikeguy

Tony_T said:


> Is Toshiba still being recommended for the Bolt?
> If so, there's a 1T, 2T and 4T available at OWC:
> Toshiba 2.5" 5400RPM Serial-ATA (SATA) Hard Drives​
> (FWIW, I'm still using the recommended WD20NPVZ 2T that is no longer available)


Toshiba 2.5 hard drives have been recommended or often used in the past, but this is a new series. I don't recall people reporting their success or not with this series.

The earlier series that people have been using is: Toshiba MQ03ABB300 (3TB model); Toshiba MQ03ABB200 (2TB model).


----------



## fis

I detailed my experience with the warranty on the Toshiba 3TB 2.5" drive two years ago on these forums. The warranty is not worth much. Toshiba's policy:

The warranty is based on the manufacture date -- not the purchase date.
Submitting a claim requires documentation of drive failures, and manual review by Toshiba, which literally took months after I submitted the claim.
They do not replace the drive. They send you one of those short-expiration date VISA gift cards, with a significantly reduced $ amount that they say is based on the _current market value of the drive, pro-rated down_ based on months remaining on the warranty. I believe I received a $115 gift card for a drive that couldn't be found anywhere for less than $160 at the time. It was less than a year old.
It was a crappy experience. Rather than replace the drive with another Toshiba 2.5mm drive, or downgrade to a smaller WD drive, I purchased a 4TB WD Red 3.5" drive, and took the plunge on attaching an external drive to my Bolt. It was actually a piece of cake -- incredibly easy and running smoothly for over 2 years now. Wish I'd done that the first time.


----------



## aaronwt

At least I don't need to worry about a warranty on my Toshiba drive. Since I had pulled it from a PS4 Pro, back in 2016. But at least there seem to be some inexpensive options out there for 1TB and 2TB drives. But if my 1TB Toshiba craps out I will just go back to the stock, 500GB, Bolt drive. SInce I have four or five extra ones lying around.


----------



## tommage1

fis said:


> The warranty is based on the manufacture date -- not the purchase date.
> 
> Submitting a claim requires documentation of drive failures, and manual review by Toshiba, which literally took months after I submitted the claim.
> 
> They do not replace the drive. They send you one of those short-expiration date VISA gift cards, with a significantly reduced $ amount that they say is based on the _current market value of the drive, pro-rated down_ based on months remaining on the warranty. I believe I received a $115 gift card for a drive that couldn't be found anywhere for less than $160 at the time. It was less than a year old.


That is a HORRIBLE warranty policy. So if anyone buys one of those Toshiba 2/3TB 2.5 discontinued model drives that have been reported to work ok with Tivos they could end up with zero warranty based on manufacturing date even if unused drive. With that sort of warranty policy I doubt I will be buying any Toshiba drives, especially since they don't replace the drive. IF I was going to buy one of the recommended 2/3TB drives I'd go with the 2TB (49.99), I think the 3TB is over $100? I myself would probably get direct from goharddrive. And I would ask them if they cover the drive themselves if the manufacturer warranty is expired or close to it since the drives are discontinued. Couldn't hurt, could even ask them before purchase. Buying direct good as you would have receipt from GHD themselves, not some funky Ebay/Amazon receipt, I've bought stuff from ebay that was actually drop shipped from sellers at Amazon, the only receipt I got was a gift receipt from Amazon. For items bought at ebay.............


----------



## tommage1

aaronwt said:


> The only time I've had a manufacturer go by the manufacture date on the drive, is when I didn't have a purchase receipt. Otherwise, my experience with Western Digital and Seagate for Hard drive warranties, has been based on my purchase date.


Hmm, then the authorized seller thing might come into play. At least would have what is left on warranty based on manufacturing date if you don't have receipt or did not buy from an authorized seller. And I think Seagate (and maybe WD) actually replace the drive with a "refurbished" drive, according to another poster here Toshiba does not, some gift card based how much time is left on warranty AND current market value of drive which could be a lot less that what it was at time of purchase.

Since there seems to be different polices for different manufacturers I think the FIRST thing I would do after buying a drive would be to check the serial number with the manufacturer for warranty status. And check with seller if they advertise a specific warranty period, will they cover it if the manufacturer warranty is expired. Or check those things before purchase...............


----------



## Tony_T

Definitely check the S/N with the manufacturer when purchased.
Bought a WD drive from an Amazon 3rd party seller and WD wouldn’t record the s/n as it wasn’t from an authorized seller. Sent it back, and bought one that Amazon was the seller. This wasn’t for my TiVo. The WD20NPVZ I bought for my Bolt wasn’t from an authorized dealer, so no warranty on that one.


----------



## skipper64

Just wanted to know if the 4TB WD Red 3.5" WD40EFAX in external enclosure
will work with a Tivo Bolt on Hydra. The WD blue 2.5 I put in last may has already died.


----------



## fis

skipper64 said:


> Just wanted to know if the 4TB WD Red 3.5" WD40EFAX in external enclosure
> will work with a Tivo Bolt on Hydra. The WD blue 2.5 I put in last may has already died.


My red drive is the WD40EFRX. Not sure what the difference is.
FWIW it's not even in an enclosure. I've got a SATA cable running directly to the Bolt (I just left the cover off), and a power cable to an old malfunctioning EZ Dock that doesn't work as a drive bay but still can provide power.

_As you might have guessed, it's an ugly setup but it's highly functional and all out of sight inside a spacious ventilated cabinet. Another thing I like about this setup is that I just left the original 500GB drive from TiVO installed in place. If I ever need service from TiVO, I can just very easily unplug the external drive cable, plug the 500GB back in, pop the cover back on and send it in for replacement.

(It's possible I may or may not have done this once before)_


----------



## zubinh

Hello Gents, my head is spinning from reading all these recommendations. Was hoping someone can give it to me short and sweet. I have a 3TB Bolt Vox running TE4. The hard drive is dead. I just want to swap it for another 3TB. I would prefer to buy on Amazon so I can get it quickly. Like all of you I just want a 3Tb that's fast and reliable. Thanks for your suggestion


----------



## DeltaOne

zubinh said:


> Was hoping someone can give it to me short and sweet. I have a 3TB Bolt Vox


Western Digital Red, 2.5-inch, 5400 RPM.


----------



## Tony_T

Expensive, but, 
Weaknees: Single 3 TB Replace TiVo Upgrade Kit for 849000


----------



## fis

DeltaOne said:


> Western Digital Red, 2.5-inch, 5400 RPM.


Yes. Limited size choices, but among the reliable options, absolutely the simplest way to go.


----------



## Tony_T

DeltaOne said:


> Western Digital Red, 2.5-inch, 5400 RPM.


AFAIK, the 2.5 inch is only available in 1T


----------



## zubinh

Tony_T said:


> AFAIK, the 2.5 inch is only available in 1T


Yup You're right, only 1TB... Need at least 2TB and the Weaknees option is the same crappy drive I'm replacing albeit with a high cost. I do have a Best Buy extended warranty but the stores are closed and I can't do an exchange.

This one on Amazon caught my eye:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07H2F3741/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_dp_U_x_VoFHEbQQ3NS49

Any opinions?


----------



## V7Goose

In my opinion, the ONLY way you are going to get a reliable drive over 1 TB in a Bolt is to switch to a 3.5" WD Red or Purple drive. The procedure is both simple and cheap. Well documented in multiple threads here.


----------



## fis

zubinh said:


> Yup You're right, only 1TB... Need at least 2TB and the Weaknees option is the same crappy drive I'm replacing albeit with a high cost. I do have a Best Buy extended warranty but the stores are closed and I can't do an exchange.
> 
> This one on Amazon caught my eye:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07H2F3741/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_dp_U_x_VoFHEbQQ3NS49
> 
> Any opinions?


Personally, I would never try using a solid state drive in a TiVO. There is a misconception that SSDs are infinitely reliable because they don't have moving parts. This is a falsehood. AFAIK there is no such thing as a DVR-rated SSD that can handle the task reliably over time. Stick to the advice here. Your choices as far as I can tell:

Roll the dice with a 2TB or 3TB thin 2.5" drive like the Toshiba (my luck was bad with that option, but others have been going 2-3 years with trouble-free performance).
Deal with the 1TB limit of the WD Red 2.5" drive.
Use an external 3.5" drive, which, as others have pointed out, really is easy if you just follow the formatting steps. You don't have to cut holes or modify your TiVO case, but, if your TiVo is NOT inside a cabinet, then it's ugly to look at.


----------



## Tony_T

zubinh said:


> Yup You're right, only 1TB... Need at least 2TB and the Weaknees option is the same crappy drive I'm replacing albeit with a high cost. I do have a Best Buy extended warranty but the stores are closed and I can't do an exchange.
> 
> This one on Amazon caught my eye:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07H2F3741/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_dp_U_x_VoFHEbQQ3NS49
> 
> *Any opinions?*


I would go with the 3.5 external option, but if 2.5 inch is a must, I would go with the Toshiba 4T (or 2T, 3T not available) at OWC:
Toshiba 2.5" 5400RPM Serial-ATA (SATA) Hard Drives​Website says 1yr OWC Warranty on the 4T, 3Yr Toshiba warranty on the 2T.
(Note: the 4T will auto format as 3T in the Bolt, however, there's a way to format above 3T. Don't remember how, but you can search the forum)


----------



## zubinh

Thanks for the suggestions! I have a Bolt Vox. Should I be looking at the 7mm, the 15mm or the 9.5mm? Or does it not matter?


----------



## Tony_T

The 15mm will fit. (The WD I have, no longer available, is 15mm)
Smaller should fit, but no need to go as small as the 7mm

*And remember, the Toshiba at OWC is not the Toshiba that used to be recommended here* (no longer available), *so can't say if it would work*, but if it were me, I would try it.

Let us know what you decide.

Here's the video I used when I did mine:


----------



## HerronScott

fis said:


> Personally, I would never try using a solid state drive in a TiVO. There is a misconception that SSDs are infinitely reliable because they don't have moving parts. This is a falsehood. AFAIK there is no such thing as a DVR-rated SSD that can handle the task reliably over time. Stick to the advice here. Your choices as far as I can tell:


Don't tell @zombiephysicist that.  He's at 12 months on a 5TB SSD and I'm very interested to see how it works in the long run.

5TB Bolt Drive to 7.68TB SSD Upgrade, Best Approach?

Scott


----------



## Mikeguy

zubinh said:


> Hello Gents, my head is spinning from reading all these recommendations. Was hoping someone can give it to me short and sweet. I have a 3TB Bolt Vox running TE4. The hard drive is dead. I just want to swap it for another 3TB. I would prefer to buy on Amazon so I can get it quickly. Like all of you I just want a 3Tb that's fast and reliable. Thanks for your suggestion


The Toshiba 2.5" 2TB drive from the original Toshiba series that people were using still is available, and at a killer $49.99 price; and the 3TB drive in the series also still can be obtained, my just having found it from Grooves in the UK (with free int'l shipping) at a great $97.14 price. Note, however, that these drives have been EOL'ed.​
Toshiba MQ03ABB200 -- https://www.amazon.com/TOSHIBA-MQ03...d=1&keywords=MQ03ABB200&qid=1585884118&sr=8-2

Toshiba MQ03ABB300 -- https://www.grooves-inc.co.uk/toshi...iba-hardware-electronic-pZZa1-2098341320.html


----------



## sbl2786

V7Goose said:


> In my opinion, the ONLY way you are going to get a reliable drive over 1 TB in a Bolt is to switch to a 3.5" WD Red or Purple drive. The procedure is both simple and cheap. Well documented in multiple threads here.


Can you point me in the right direction I have a 3tb bolt+, it looks like the drive is going and I would rather replace it sooner than later. I dont see many options for 2.5 drives, I would love to do a 3tb or higher 3.5 if that possible, I wasnt aware that it was.


----------



## Davelnlr_

fis said:


> Personally, I would never try using a solid state drive in a TiVO.


I dont see what the difference between the Tivo, and running PLEX DVR software on a PC...which I have been doing with a 512TB SSD for over a year with no issues at all, and the drive shows only 5% lifetime used.


----------



## HerronScott

Davelnlr_ said:


> I dont see what the difference between the Tivo, and running PLEX DVR software on a PC...which I have been doing with a 512TB SSD for over a year with no issues at all, and the drive shows only 5% lifetime used.


Does Plex record 4-6 streams 24 hours a day (worse case without the max power savings turned on).

Scott


----------



## zombiephysicist

HerronScott said:


> Don't tell @zombiephysicist that.  He's at 12 months on a 5TB SSD and I'm very interested to see how it works in the long run.
> 
> 5TB Bolt Drive to 7.68TB SSD Upgrade, Best Approach?
> 
> Scott


The SSD is 7.68GB by the way.  Details in the thread for those interested.

I'm calling the the myth that you cannot use SSDs in DVRs BUSTED!


----------



## tommage1

Has anyone "shucked" the WD Black 2.5" PS4/Xbox ONE game drives (mostly interested in 4-5TB models but would still be curious what drives are in the smaller capacity models). If so what are the model numbers of the internal drives and do they have normal Sata connections?


----------



## aaronwt

Aren't the WD Black drives 7200 rpm drives? A 7200 rpm drive is the last thing you want in a Bolt.


----------



## tommage1

aaronwt said:


> Aren't the WD Black drives 7200 rpm drives? A 7200 rpm drive is the last thing you want in a Bolt.


The WD Black GAMING drive is an external drive. I was asking what drive is in the enclosure if anyone has shucked, I DOUBT it would be an actual WD black, largest retail 2.5" Black was/is 1TB.

It's called a P10 by the way (different model number for different sizes and there are different generations also). They might call it "Black" to take advantage of the Black drive reputation (one of WDs best drives, 5 year warranty for the RETAIL drives). Or maybe just because it is in a black enclosure


----------



## aaronwt

Tony_T said:


> The 15mm will fit. (The WD I have, no longer available, is 15mm)
> Smaller should fit, but no need to go as small as the 7mm
> 
> *And remember, the Toshiba at OWC is not the Toshiba that used to be recommended here* (no longer available), *so can't say if it would work*, but if it were me, I would try it.
> 
> Let us know what you decide.
> 
> Here's the video I used when I did mine:


I remember that video. I think I used that, back in October 2015, when I put my first 4TB drive in a Bolt.

EDIT: Crap. And seeing that video reminded me that TiVo started putting a channel under the hard drive, for the wire that was run above the hard drive. I forgot to use that when I put the 1TB drive in my Bolt last week, and used a piece of a Command Strip instead.. Now I need to open it up again to run the wire under the hard drive..


----------



## zubinh

Thanks all for helping to make up my mind. I came to the conclusion that if I get a drive 3TB or larger in a 2.5" form factor, its just not that reliable and 2 years from now I'll probably be faced with the same issue and an angry wife who just lost all of her recordings. So for $50 the 2TB Toshiba from Amzon that Mikeguy mentioned above will fit the bill.

I did have another choice though. I could return my Bolt Vox and exchange it for a 2TB Tivo Edge since it is covered under the Magnolia extended warranty. I could easily get the lifetime service transferred. I have done this before. I really wanted the speedier processor and traditional square form factor the Edge provides. The reason I couldn't go this route is because right now the Best Buy stores in my area are all closed (not even doing curbside).


----------



## Mikeguy

zubinh said:


> Thanks all for helping to make up my mind. I came to the conclusion that *if I get a drive 3TB or larger in a 2.5" form factor*, its just not that reliable and 2 years from now I'll probably be faced with the same issue and an angry wife who just lost all of her recordings. *So for $50 the 2TB Toshiba from Amzon that Mikeguy mentioned above will fit the bill.*
> 
> I did have another choice though. I could return my Bolt Vox and exchange it for a 2TB Tivo Edge since it is covered under the Magnolia extended warranty. I could easily get the lifetime service transferred. I have done this before. I really wanted the speedier processor and traditional square form factor the Edge provides. The reason I couldn't go this route is because right now the Best Buy stores in my area are all closed (not even doing curbside).


Note that the Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3TB 2.5" drive is from the same series as the above-mentioned Toshiba 2TB drive, and originally was a favored choice for a hard drive upgrade. But it is harder to find nowadays at a lesser-prohibitive price (Grooves in the UK, which sells internationally, seems to be a good source (and has a great price right now, for a 3TB 2.5" drive), if you're ok with the int'l factor).

edit: Also, if you wanted to save a bit on the Toshiba 2TB 2.5" drive, I just saw it for $10 less (new) on eBay. MQ03ABB200 - Toshiba 2TB Hard Drive (1T, S2) for Toshiba | eBay


----------



## zubinh

Thanks Mike. Bought it off ebay. Got the square trade 3yr warranty for an extra $3..


----------



## negative_creep

Toshiba 1.0TB MQ04AB Series Hard Disk Drive

Would this one work in a bolt?


----------



## Tony_T

negative_creep said:


> Toshiba 1.0TB MQ04AB Series Hard Disk Drive
> 
> Would this one work in a bolt?


Yes, but why, when you can get the 2T of the older series that has been used in a Bolt:

Toshiba MQ03ABB200 -- https://www.amazon.com/TOSHIBA-MQ03...d=1&keywords=MQ03ABB200&qid=1585884118&sr=8-2

(Check eBay also)



Mikeguy said:


> The Toshiba 2.5" 2TB drive from the original Toshiba series that people were using still is available, and at a killer $49.99 price; and the 3TB drive in the series also still can be obtained, my just having found it from Grooves in the UK (with free int'l shipping) at a great $97.14 price. Note, however, that these drives have been EOL'ed.​
> Toshiba MQ03ABB200 -- https://www.amazon.com/TOSHIBA-MQ03...d=1&keywords=MQ03ABB200&qid=1585884118&sr=8-2
> 
> Toshiba MQ03ABB300 -- https://www.grooves-inc.co.uk/toshi...iba-hardware-electronic-pZZa1-2098341320.html


----------



## negative_creep

Didn’t want to wait a week for shipping as my wife is on my ass lol. Is that 2TB guaranteed to work in a bolt? 

ive tried 2 different new drives and both of them get stuck at the startup screen, I just want something that works.


----------



## Tony_T

negative_creep said:


> Didn't want to wait a week for shipping as my wife is on my ass lol. Is that 2TB guaranteed to work in a bolt?
> 
> ive tried 2 different new drives and both of them get stuck at the startup screen, I just want something that works.


Search the thread with the model # to see if someone who has used it has posted their experience with it.

Your getting stuck at the startup screen with 2 other new drives may be a problem with the Bolt, not the drives.


----------



## Mikeguy

negative_creep said:


> Didn't want to wait a week for shipping as my wife is on my ass lol. Is that 2TB guaranteed to work in a bolt?
> 
> ive tried 2 different new drives and both of them get stuck at the startup screen, I just want something that works.


I'm in my 12th month of using the 3TB in the series in my Bolt box and, knock wood, no issues.


----------



## negative_creep

Tony_T said:


> Search the thread with the model # to see if someone who has used it has posted their experience with it.
> 
> Your getting stuck at the startup screen with 2 other new drives may be a problem with the Bolt, not the drives.


I was getting the four flashing lights and the HDD was making all kinds of crazy noises. It's gotta be the HDD, right?


----------



## Tony_T

negative_creep said:


> I was getting the four flashing lights and the HDD was making all kinds of crazy noises. It's gotta be the HDD, right?


yes, it's the drive, but what I didn't understand was why the 2 replacement drives you tried gets stuck at the startup screen. But best best is to try a drive that has been proven to work, like the one Mikeguy suggested (I'm using the WD recommended here, but it's no longer available)


----------



## V7Goose

The symptoms are classic for a bad drive, but the problem can also be caused by a bad power supply. Perhaps both are now bad?


----------



## lasergecko

If you can find a good WD20NPVZ, should you get that? What's the price point before you should start looking at something else?


----------



## Tony_T

lasergecko said:


> If you can find a good WD20NPVZ, should you get that? What's the price point before you should start looking at something else?


I would definitely buy a new WD20NPVZ (probably won't be covered under warranty)
If I didn't already have a spare, I would offer $70 and would pay up to $90 as they are hard to find new.


----------



## lasergecko

Thanks, Tony_T!

I picked up a BNIB (bag, anyway) for $70 from eBay. I'd rather go with tried, true, and easily available than muck about trying to get more capacity.


----------



## Tony_T

Mine”s been going strong for over 2 years.
(I had to replace my Bolt last year due to a lightning strike that toasted the HDMI port, but the WD Drive survived and I transplanted it into the new (refurbished) Bolt)


----------



## Sportsnut

Tony_T said:


> Mine"s been going strong for over 2 years.
> (I had to replace my Bolt last year due to a lightning strike that toasted the HDMI port, but the WD Drive survived and I transplanted it into the new (refurbished) Bolt)


Looks like I missed the boat on the Toshiba hard drive for $50. It looks like the NPVZ is still available from Amazon for $80.


----------



## moveandstore

I know that I may be crossing threads, but I wanted to ask the members, since this question is relevant to this particular thread.

I have a older Bolt (had it since Oct.2015). When I first got it, I immediately upgraded it to 2 TB with a Seagate ST2000LM003 2.5 drive. I've had no problems at all with this drive. The most recordings I had on it, (including Season Passes) it never maxed it out and was at about 45 percent capacity. I usually delete programs after binge watching to save space. It's been running solid for almost 5 years. I keep it in a ventilated area, and the only part that is hot is where the cable card is located. Anyway, since Optimum Altice (I live in North NJ) went to SDV on some of the lower channels on the 100's (the HD channels are on the 600 thru 800's) I began not receiving most of the 100's SD channels (about 15 channels). Either I get a blank screen with the channel banner and info; or a error message that you have to contact the cable company. I got a tuning adapter, with another M-card and I think it made things worse. I had no programs saved on the drive, so I went and reset everything back to factory. But now I'm getting error messages and some of the channels are freezing up, and the install message pops up whenever you turn to a channel. Once you press "clear" the channel freezes up and is unwatchable. So I am looking at getting a new Bolt Vox from Best Buy, scheduled to arrive on Friday (17th). I've got lucky on Amazon and found a WD WD20NPVZ (which is the preferred option according to most on these forums for 2TB) for 79.00. (Don't know when it will exactly arrive, due to the times we are in) I will probably get another cable card as well because I think that this one is faulty. I wanted to know how to check if my old drive is faulty or not? I have a dual dock and can check it without opening up the computer. Do I use SeaTools to check it or reformat it if it is still good for reuse? Or use another tool? And if and when I get the new drive, what tools do I use to check it for errors as well?


----------



## Tony_T

Do you want to check the drive while not losing the shows that are recorded on the old drive?

If you just want to reuse and *lose the record shows on the old drive *, you can use any OS's Disk Utility (macOS, Windows, Linux, etc)


----------



## moveandstore

I don't have anything on it since I reset it. Can I do a quick format on windows disk management?


----------



## Tony_T

moveandstore said:


> I don't have anything on it since I reset it. Can I do a quick format on windows disk management?


Yes, but might as well do the slower one (forgot what Windows calls it), then might as well also do a check of the disk in Windows (IIRC, they have some sort of disk check tool)


----------



## lasergecko

The install of the new drive went well. I only broke one tab off that stupid curved cover. 

317 hours for the win!


----------



## Tony_T

lasergecko said:


> The install of the new drive went well. I only *broke one tab* off that stupid curved cover.
> 
> 317 hours for the win!


A Spudger helped when I did mine.


----------



## lasergecko

Oh, I have a whole iFixIt kit, but my son "borrowed" it.


----------



## Mikeguy

lasergecko said:


> The install of the new drive went well. *I only broke one tab off that stupid curved cover. *
> 
> 317 hours for the win!


Said after 11-1/2 months of use: it don't make no difference.


----------



## moveandstore

I received my new hard drive yesterday. I installed my 2TB WD20NPVZ (manufactured in 2016) with no problems. (Broke all the tabs on the top though.) Otherwise a simple job, and it is running smooth. it runs quiet like my old Bolt, and it is in a well ventilated area, so I hope it will last as long as my old unit. Took about 30 minutes to do the job. It updated itself to Hydra and booted with no issues. The funny thing was that I did not break any tabs on my old Bolt. (which I purchased in 2015) I the only thing was you have to use a T8 and T6 Torx to remove it. (why did they did not standardized the screws like the old Bolt, I do not know...) Then the hard part came..... spent the next SEVEN hours dealing with the cable company trying to get it paired. Spoke to FOUR people at Optimum, giving me the same scripted speech saying that they are troubleshooting, but not knowing what they are doing. The last person I talked to (about 1:30 am this morning) had enough common sense to get the job done. He asked the proper questions, and figured out that the moving of some channels to the SD side to SDV, it needed more transmitting signal power. (you can tell because all of the channels was transmitting about 50 percent instead of the usual 90 or more percent) I learned a lot about this by reading the tivo troubleshooting guide and from one of the forums here on this site. I still do not have all of the channels on the SD side (missing about 10 - that I watch infrequently, but hopefully they will be on since I am paying for them.) I know that they are on my package is because I can see those missing channels when I look at it from the Optimum app on my iPad. And the tuning adapter had made things worse. That led me to getting a new Bolt anyway, since it was almost 5 years old. I thought I had a faulty unit. I tested the old hard drive, and it is not corrupt and has no missing or damaged sectors. (it was manufactured in 2014) So now I have two Bolts now. And I also learned it is best to get someone to pair your card late at night, instead of the daytime as they are swamped with customers (and IF you can get to talk to someone - helpful hint: use the number on the manual that Tivo provides to contact your cable company - saved me a headache!) and not enough knowledgeable people who aren't reading from some script, telling you "you have to contact the manufacturer" to solve your problem. Enough on this rant.

Otherwise, all is well, and I still have my old Bolt as a back up if needed.


----------



## Sportsnut

moveandstore said:


> I received my new hard drive yesterday. I installed my 2TB WD20NPVZ (manufactured in 2016) with no problems. (Broke all the tabs on the top though.) Otherwise a simple job, and it is running smooth. it runs quiet like my old Bolt, and it is in a well ventilated area, so I hope it will last as long as my old unit. Took about 30 minutes to do the job. It updated itself to Hydra and booted with no issues. The funny thing was that I did not break any tabs on my old Bolt. (which I purchased in 2015) I the only thing was you have to use a T8 and T6 Torx to remove it. (why did they did not standardized the screws like the old Bolt, I do not know...) Then the hard part came..... spent the next SEVEN hours dealing with the cable company trying to get it paired. Spoke to FOUR people at Optimum, giving me the same scripted speech saying that they are troubleshooting, but not knowing what they are doing. The last person I talked to (about 1:30 am this morning) had enough common sense to get the job done. He asked the proper questions, and figured out that the moving of some channels to the SD side to SDV, it needed more transmitting signal power. (you can tell because all of the channels was transmitting about 50 percent instead of the usual 90 or more percent) I learned a lot about this by reading the tivo troubleshooting guide and from one of the forums here on this site. I still do not have all of the channels on the SD side (missing about 10 - that I watch infrequently, but hopefully they will be on since I am paying for them.) I know that they are on my package is because I can see those missing channels when I look at it from the Optimum app on my iPad. And the tuning adapter had made things worse. That led me to getting a new Bolt anyway, since it was almost 5 years old. I thought I had a faulty unit. I tested the old hard drive, and it is not corrupt and has no missing or damaged sectors. (it was manufactured in 2014) So now I have two Bolts now. And I also learned it is best to get someone to pair your card late at night, instead of the daytime as they are swamped with customers (and IF you can get to talk to someone - helpful hint: use the number on the manual that Tivo provides to contact your cable company - saved me a headache!) and not enough knowledgeable people who aren't reading from some script, telling you "you have to contact the manufacturer" to solve your problem. Enough on this rant.
> 
> Otherwise, all is well, and I still have my old Bolt as a back up if needed.


I just got my 2TB WD20NPVZ and am planning to install it tonight. You said it updated itself to Hydra, did you already have Hydra before switching the hard drive? I am on TE3 and do not want to switch to Hydra.


----------



## Tony_T

IIRC, the Guided Setup gives no choice, so you need to install Hydra, then do a Downgrade to TE3.


----------



## Sportsnut

Tony_T said:


> IIRC, the Guided Setup gives no choice, so you need to install Hydra, then do a Downgrade to TE3.


Ouch. I was hoping to avoid that. I thought I read somewhere that if you have TE3 before you upgrade it will reinstall TE3 but I could be wrong or that may have applied to Roamios only. I already downgraded after I got the Bolt so hopefully there wouldn't be any issues with downgrading again. I don't want to lose the ability to transfer between boxes as I have a Roamio OTA with a 3tb hard drive that I copy stuff from the Bolt to now.


----------



## Tony_T

I'm on Hydra, but I thought I read that, but that was awhile ago, and my memory could be wrong. Maybe someone else can chime in here on this.


----------



## Mikeguy

Sportsnut said:


> Ouch. I was hoping to avoid that. I thought I read somewhere that if you have TE3 before you upgrade it will reinstall TE3 but I could be wrong or that may have applied to Roamios only. I already downgraded after I got the Bolt so hopefully there wouldn't be any issues with downgrading again. I don't want to lose the ability to transfer between boxes as I have a Roamio OTA with a 3tb hard drive that I copy stuff from the Bolt to now.


I upgraded my Bolt 500GB box last year with the internal Toshiba 3TB drive. I was on TE3, and after the hard drive upgrade and going through Guided Setup, the system kept me on TE3 without updating to TE4/Hydra--I had no need to sidegrade back to TE4. (In fact, I hadn't even considered that as an issue at the time--I assume that it was/is not an issue that others have faced.)*

* Even if it did occur, you then would be able to sidegrade back to TE3. But, as I said, I didn't face that.


----------



## Sportsnut

Mikeguy said:


> I upgraded my Bolt 500GB box last year with the internal Toshiba 3TB drive. I was on TE3, and after the hard drive upgrade and going through Guided Setup, the system kept me on TE3 without updating to TE4/Hydra--I had no need to sidegrade back to TE4. (In fact, I hadn't even considered that as an issue at the time--I assume that it was/is not an issue that others have faced.)*
> 
> * Even if it did occur, you then would be able to sidegrade back to TE3. But, as I said, I didn't face that.


Thanks for the confirmation. I figure I should be able to downgrade again if I have to but hoping I won't need to at all.


----------



## Sportsnut

The upgrade is complete and it did stay on TE3 after the upgrade. I lost FS1 and broke a couple of tabs on the cover but other than that everything seems to be working ok. I'm still getting FS2 so hoping FS1 will start working tomorrow but if not I'll contact Verizon.


----------



## aaronwt

Sportsnut said:


> Ouch. I was hoping to avoid that. I thought I read somewhere that if you have TE3 before you upgrade it will reinstall TE3 but I could be wrong or that may have applied to Roamios only. I already downgraded after I got the Bolt so hopefully there wouldn't be any issues with downgrading again. I don't want to lose the ability to transfer between boxes as I have a Roamio OTA with a 3tb hard drive that I copy stuff from the Bolt to now.


All my TiVos are on TE4 and I can still transfer between boxes. I just need to use TiVo online to do it.


----------



## aaronwt

Sportsnut said:


> The upgrade is complete and it did stay on TE3 after the upgrade. I lost FS1 and broke a couple of tabs on the cover but other than that everything seems to be working ok. I'm still getting FS2 so hoping FS1 will start working tomorrow but if not I'll contact Verizon.


If the channel doesn't require cable card pairing, then it should work right away. There is no delay for the channels to work. All those channels should work right away. And has always been the case for me on FiOS, the dozens of times I've changed out a hard drive.

If the channel requires cable card pairing then the only way to get them to work is to get the cable card paired again. And the pairing is lost anytime you change a hard drive in a TiVo.

on FiOS, Fox owned channels like Nat Geo, Fox News, etc. require a paired cable card. As well as HBO and Cinemax. But some of the Fox owned channels are available right now without any cable card pairing. Because of the Pandemic.

Usually the Fox Sports channels require a paired cable card. So good luck with the pairing. I've found that 50% of the time the FIOS CSR screws up the pairing. But a few weeks ago when I had to repair a card, after putting a 1TB in a Bolt. I got a CSR that knew what they were doing. And had the card paired in a few minutes.

And right away, once the card is paired, you start receiving those channels that require a paired cable card. But that has always been the case in my experience with FiOS and Comcast.


----------



## Sportsnut

aaronwt said:


> All my TiVos are on TE4 and I can still transfer between boxes. I just need to use TiVo online to do it.


I still prefer the ease of transferring directly from 1 box to another but good to know it can be done if they ever force everyone to TE4. Now that I upgraded the hard drive to 2tb it shouldn't be too much of an issue anymore, at least for a while.


----------



## Sportsnut

aaronwt said:


> If the channel doesn't require cable card pairing, then it should work right away. There is no delay for the channels to work. All those channels should work right away. And has always been the case for me on FiOS, the dozens of times I've changed out a hard drive.
> 
> If the channel requires cable card pairing then the only way to get them to work is to get the cable card paired again. And the pairing is lost anytime you change a hard drive in a TiVo.
> 
> on FiOS, Fox owned channels like Nat Geo, Fox News, etc. require a paired cable card. As well as HBO and Cinemax. But some of the Fox owned channels are available right now without any cable card pairing. Because of the Pandemic.
> 
> Usually the Fox Sports channels require a paired cable card. So good luck with the pairing. I've found that 50% of the time the FIOS CSR screws up the pairing. But a few weeks ago when I had to repair a card, after putting a 1TB in a Bolt. I got a CSR that knew what they were doing. And had the card paired in a few minutes.
> 
> And right away, once the card is paired, you start receiving those channels that require a paired cable card. But that has always been the case in my experience with FiOS and Comcast.


Yeah, it was weird that FS2 worked but not FS1. But then I remembered in the past I could not transfer recordings from FS1 from the Bolt to my Roamio but I could from FS2. I asked the question before and someone (maybe you) found an old post that FOX had a deal with FIOS to copy-protect some of their channels from being transferred to another device like the premium channels like HBO. Fox News is working but not National Geographic but I don't think I was getting that before.

I'm hoping the call to FIOS to repair won't be too painful. I know that can be hit or miss. When I first did the setup last night the screen with the number to call for the cablecard popped up. I followed the instructions and all the channels seemed to be working but that may have only been to activate it. There was no option to speak to a human being so I will have to call customer service this time.


----------



## aaronwt

The FiOS CSR hours are greatly reduced right now. I think it was 9Am to 5PM when I had to re-pair my cable card a few weeks ago. But I was able to have them call me back instead of waiting on hold for an hour. And then they actually called me back after 5Pm. I figured since the queue was so long that they would not call me back. But surprisingly they did. But they also had an option to schedule a time for them to call you back the next day as well. I had set that up too since I didn't think I would get a call after 5PM.. And they actually called me the next day, at the time I specified.

So I was actually pleased with that cable card re-pairing experience.


----------



## Sportsnut

aaronwt said:


> The FiOS CSR hours are greatly reduced right now. I think it was 9Am to 5PM when I had to re-pair my cable card a few weeks ago. But I was able to have them call me back instead of waiting on hold for an hour. And then they actually called me back after 5Pm. I figured since the queue was so long that they would not call me back. But surprisingly they did. But they also had an option to schedule a time for them to call you back the next day as well. I had set that up too since I didn't think I would get a call after 5PM.. And they actually called me the next day, at the time I specified.
> 
> So I was actually pleased with that cable card re-pairing experience.


I went to the FS1 channel and the message with the phone number to call that I got when I set it up last night popped up again. I called the number and used the automated system again. After entering the CableCard ID it said it was activated but also asked if I needed further help. When I said yes it then asked if I had moved the card from one device to another. When I said yes it asked for the host ID and the Data number for the CableCard. Once entered it said it would start the process of reactivating (I think that was the term it used) the card and could take up to 30 minutes.

I checked back in around a half-hour later and FS1 was working and National Geographic too. So if you have to re-pair a card again you may not have to speak to anyone.


----------



## moveandstore

Sportsnut said:


> I just got my 2TB WD20NPVZ and am planning to install it tonight. You said it updated itself to Hydra, did you already have Hydra before switching the hard drive? I am on TE3 and do not want to switch to Hydra.


I bought a brand new unit; a new hard drive; and new cable card, so it automatically upgraded itself after a reboot to Hydra (TE4). I didn't want to downgrade to TE3. 
My last Bolt was on TE4. I have to use TE4 since I use a lot of the voice control along with my Alexa.

BTW, what year was your hard drive manufactured in, if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## Sportsnut

moveandstore said:


> I bought a brand new unit; a new hard drive; and new cable card, so it automatically upgraded itself after a reboot to Hydra (TE4). I didn't want to downgrade to TE3.
> My last Bolt was on TE4. I have to use TE4 since I use a lot of the voice control along with my Alexa.
> 
> BTW, what year was your hard drive manufactured in, if you don't mind me asking?


My WD20NPVZ was manufactured 12/29/17. Makes sense that yours went to TE4 since it was brand new.


----------



## elorimer

aaronwt said:


> All my TiVos are on TE4 and I can still transfer between boxes. I just need to use TiVo online to do it.


Did Tivo ever fix the 11 minute problem?


----------



## Pork_Chops

I just wanted to chime in about my experience with the drive upgrade. I put a 1TB Toshiba L200 in my bolt a little over a year ago and it failed today. I put my original 500gb drive back in temporarily while I scout out a different brand. The Toshiba was cheap at Microcenter - guess you get what you pay for...


----------



## justen_m

Sorry if I'm smeeking, but is this a possible new 3TB 2.5" 15mm height option for the Bolt? I went with the Toshiba a year or so ago, so I'm not looking, but that was discontinued. Looks like it is available up to 5tb! Although the pricing seems strange. The 4TB is less than the 3TB, and the 5TB is about the same price as the 3TB.

Seagate 3TB BarraCuda 5400 RPM 128MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 2.5" 15mm Internal Hard Drive ST3000LM024 - Newegg.com


----------



## aaronwt

The Seagates have been using Shingled Magnetic Recording (SMR) for awhile now.
Which is what you don't want in a DVR.


----------



## Tony_T

Need to even be careful with NAS drives using SMR now:
Buyer beware-that 2TB-6TB "NAS" drive you've been eyeing might be SMR
Seagate says Network Attached Storage and SMR don't mix


----------



## DEC2955

OK... I know this has been asked (and wished the links were pinned to the top of the rhread)
My (is it really six+ years old??) BOLT's hard drive & cooling fan died today after a thunderstorm killed power for a few seconds.
It is an original 500gb White model.
With changes in streaming, is it really worth fixing? (I have three other Romeo's still running)
If worth repairing, current links for parts PLEASE!

David


----------



## Mikeguy

It all depends--do you need a 4th box for DVR (as vs. streamer) purposes and is it worth the replacement cost to you? If you only really want/need a streamer, other devices probably would be better and will be less expensive--heck, check out the new TiVo Stream 4K (and the many threads here on it, in its own subforum). It was just released yesterday.

External cooling fans (is that what you were talking about?) are inexpensive--check out the many AC Infinity models at Amazon.com, for under $15 (e.g. the AC Infinity MULTIFAN S4 and S3). (Even AC Infinity's super laptop cooling pad design model, the AC Infinity AIRCOM S7, is (only) $50.) If you were talking internal cooling fans, also inexpensive--there are many threads/posts here at TCF on suggested models.

Hard drive replacements: the Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3TB hard drive (the good, old, dependable here, recommended for years), at https://www.grooves-inc.co.uk/toshi...iba-hardware-electronic-pZZa1-2098341320.html, for under $100 shipped from a seemingly-mainstay UK store. You also can see if you can find the 2TB version, Toshiba MQ03ABB200--eBay can be a good source. And I believe that the 500GB version is Toshiba MQ03ABB500. These drives have become harder to find, though, as their supply has gotten limited.

And then, of course, you could simply buy a Roamio refurb from TiVo.com's outlet store or from WeaKnees.com. Memorial Day is coming soon, and the 4th of July after that--who knows if there will be holiday sales.


----------



## ej42137

justen_m said:


> Sorry if I'm smeeking, but is this a possible new 3TB 2.5" 15mm height option for the Bolt? I went with the Toshiba a year or so ago, so I'm not looking, but that was discontinued. Looks like it is available up to 5tb! Although the pricing seems strange. The 4TB is less than the 3TB, and the 5TB is about the same price as the 3TB.
> 
> Seagate 3TB BarraCuda 5400 RPM 128MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 2.5" 15mm Internal Hard Drive ST3000LM024 - Newegg.com


No. It uses SMR recording, which will either soon fail, or not work at all in a TiVo. List of known SMR drives.


----------



## tommage1

DEC2955 said:


> OK... I know this has been asked (and wished the links were pinned to the top of the rhread)
> My (is it really six+ years old??) BOLT's hard drive & cooling fan died today after a thunderstorm killed power for a few seconds.
> It is an original 500gb White model.
> With changes in streaming, is it really worth fixing? (I have three other Romeo's still running)
> If worth repairing, current links for parts PLEASE!
> 
> David


First of all congratulations, 6 years on a Bolt with the original drive is wonderful, must be close to a record  As for repairing, first of all is it monthly or lifetime? If monthly probably not, can buy used non lifetime Bolts for under $50 easily. If lifetime probably worth it. Another question would be are you SURE it's just the drive and fan? Since a storm involved and it took out two components you know of a chance something else might have been damaged? First thing I would try is call Tivo. Just tell them it's not working, don't mention the storm. They will run you through some tests. There is a chance they might replace it for $49 even though WAY out of warranty, they have done it before. If not, well as long as you are fairly confident nothing else got damaged you can get 500GB CMR 2.5" drives fairly easily and cheap. Yes, there are larger (more expensive) 2.5" CMR drives available but if 500GB was good for you for so many years why change (and you have the Roamios also). The fan should be fairly simple to find. I would guess you could replace the drive with another 500GB CMR drive and the fan for under $50. Definitely worth it if a lifetime unit and nothing else was damaged during the storm/surge/whatever caused the problem.

While I did not post links I'm going to guess there will be some posted in this thread. Am mostly just giving my opinion on if it is worth fixing and options to try (like calling Tivo). Current model WD 2.5" Blue 500GB AND LESS are CMR drives. Black also (500GB and less) but it is 7200RPM, usable but not really recommended for Tivos, especially Bolts since they have heat issues to begin with.

Oh, assuming you are ok with giving up any recordings on the current drive you could test the Bolt to see if anything else was damaged. Open it up. Disconnect the drive. Then hook up any CMR 2.5" drive (I'd recommend under 500GB to be sure it's CMR). The Bolt should format it if it's not further damaged. Since just a test don't worry about the fan, just don't leave it hooked up for an extended period of time. Could also try a 3.5" CMR drive. Only issue could be if the power supply off the Bolt is enough to power the 3.5, if not could use external power supply. Again size should not matter, could be 80/100/250GB, whatever, as long as CMR. Once you hookup another drive you will lose whatever is on your current 500GB.


----------



## Tony_T

DEC2955 said:


> OK... I know this has been asked (and wished the links were pinned to the top of the rhread)
> My (is it really six+ years old??) BOLT's hard drive & cooling fan died today after a thunderstorm killed power for a few seconds.
> It is an original 500gb White model.
> With changes in streaming, is it really worth fixing? (I have three other Romeo's still running)
> If worth repairing, current links for parts PLEASE!
> 
> David


This is the fan that was recommended as a Bolt Replacement for a noisy fan:
Not a direct fit, minor modifications needed. 
https://www.amazon.com/Noiseblocker-ITR-XS-2-BlackSilentFan-XS-2/dp/B00839XK5W


----------



## Mikeguy

tommage1 said:


> As for repairing, first of all is it monthly or lifetime? If monthly probably not, can buy used non lifetime Bolts for under $50 easily.


Good point. And this leads to another opportunity/possibility: if the original box is Lifetime, buy an inexpensive, non-Lifetime box, verify that it works, and then transfer its fan and hard drive into the original Bolt DVR. The parts are used, but at the low cost between the 2 parts, perhaps something to consider.


> Another question would be are you SURE it's just the drive and fan? Since a storm involved and it took out two components you know of a chance something else might have been damaged?


Another good point. Sometimes the issue is a bad power supply, an inexpensive fix (especially for the Bolt 500GB DVR, with its external power supply adapter). 


> First thing I would try is call Tivo. Just tell them it's not working, don't mention the storm. They will run you through some tests. There is a chance they might replace it for $49 even though WAY out of warranty, they have done it before.


And a trifecta of good points--this indeed is a possibility with TiVo. At the very least, easy to check out, and the OP could walk away with an inexpensive replacement DVR. I'd start with this possibility.


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## tommage1

Mikeguy said:


> And a trifecta of good points--this indeed is a possibility with TiVo. At the very least, easy to check out, and the OP could walk away with an inexpensive replacement DVR. I'd start with this possibility.


Definitely would be the first thing to try. Second would be to test the Bolt since it may not be the drive and/or fan, might be something on the motherboard itself (or a combination of things). One easy test would be to try the fan in another unit (Tivo or not, as long as it fits and specs are similar power wise). If the fan works then might be something on the MB got fried (or a power supply issue). If the fan works then the drive might be ok also. You could try the swap drive test, (you'd lose your recordings though) and/or test the suspect drive in your computer? When dealing with lightning/power issues never know what it could be. If it took out TWO things a chance it might be something else, whatever powers those two components? Lot of chips on a MB, AND the flash drive/memory.


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## tommage1

One more thing, you say you have Roamios. If one is a "Basic" Roamio I think the power supply/AC adapter is the same specs (12V 2A). So actually you could try that first


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## DEC2955

tommage1 said:


> First of all congratulations, 6 years on a Bolt with the original drive is wonderful, must be close to a record  As for repairing, first of all is it monthly or lifetime? If monthly probably not, can buy used non lifetime Bolts for under $50 easily. If lifetime probably worth it. Another question would be are you SURE it's just the drive and fan? Since a storm involved and it took out two components you know of a chance something else might have been damaged? First thing I would try is call Tivo. Just tell them it's not working, don't mention the storm. They will run you through some tests. There is a chance they might replace it for $49 even though WAY out of warranty, they have done it before. If not, well as long as you are fairly confident nothing else got damaged you can get 500GB CMR 2.5" drives fairly easily and cheap. Yes, there are larger (more expensive) 2.5" CMR drives available but if 500GB was good for you for so many years why change (and you have the Roamios also). The fan should be fairly simple to find. I would guess you could replace the drive with another 500GB CMR drive and the fan for under $50. Definitely worth it if a lifetime unit and nothing else was damaged during the storm/surge/whatever caused the problem.
> 
> While I did not post links I'm going to guess there will be some posted in this thread. Am mostly just giving my opinion on if it is worth fixing and options to try (like calling Tivo). Current model WD 2.5" Blue 500GB AND LESS are CMR drives. Black also (500GB and less) but it is 7200RPM, usable but not really recommended for Tivos, especially Bolts since they have heat issues to begin with.
> 
> Oh, assuming you are ok with giving up any recordings on the current drive you could test the Bolt to see if anything else was damaged. Open it up. Disconnect the drive. Then hook up any CMR 2.5" drive (I'd recommend under 500GB to be sure it's CMR). The Bolt should format it if it's not further damaged. Since just a test don't worry about the fan, just don't leave it hooked up for an extended period of time. Could also try a 3.5" CMR drive. Only issue could be if the power supply off the Bolt is enough to power the 3.5, if not could use external power supply. Again size should not matter, could be 80/100/250GB, whatever, as long as CMR. Once you hook up another drive you will lose whatever is on your current 500GB.


Tom: Tom thanks for all the points! It is a monthly 500GB unit, and Tivo stated they would exchange it for $50+S/H (which really surprised me!!) So the main question I have to answer for myself is, self repair with maybe a larger hard drive or exchange, If I thought that I would get an "OTA Edge" in exchange, then I would exchange, but the phone rep said I might get a "OTA Roamio" instead, and I had three of those die on me over 18 months! I don't think it is the power supply as the unit does power up, but the hard drive / fan making clicking sounds and the unit is stuck at the "Startup" screen.


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## V7Goose

DEC2955 said:


> I don't think it is the power supply as the unit does power up, but the hard drive / fan making clicking sounds and the unit is stuck at the "Startup" screen.


Just seeing some indication of "power up" means nothing, and it certainly does NOT mean that the power supply is good. In my experience a bad power brick or wall wort does not often just stop putting out any power; more common for it to loose the ability to provide enough current under load. For example, I recently had an old Seagate NAS stop working. , Even though the box lights would come on at reboot, the drive would never come on line. I tried the same wall wort on an external HDD that also used the same 12V/2A supply, and that drive also would show the power light but only make a few repeated clicking sounds. Measuring the power supply voltage with no load showed normal voltage, so clearly it could not provide the necessary current. The NAS worked perfectly with a different and known good power supply, proving that the original one was indeed bad.

So the ONLY real definitive test of your Bolt power supply is to test the same box with a known good one.


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## tommage1

DEC2955 said:


> Tom: Tom thanks for all the points! It is a monthly 500GB unit, and Tivo stated they would exchange it for $50+S/H (which really surprised me!!) So the main question I have to answer for myself is, self repair with maybe a larger hard drive or exchange, If I thought that I would get an "OTA Edge" in exchange, then I would exchange, but the phone rep said I might get a "OTA Roamio" instead, and I had three of those die on me over 18 months! I don't think it is the power supply as the unit does power up, but the hard drive / fan making clicking sounds and the unit is stuck at the "Startup" screen.


Well I would still try the power supply from one of your Roamios if it is the AC adapter type. Or another AC adapter that fits, MUST be 12V, should be 2A or higher and polarity much match. A power supply can go partially bad, have enough power to light lights and the initial screen but not enough to actually boot the hard drive. I've actually had it happen twice, replaced adapter and both functioned fine. As for the trade in, if you have to pay $50 plus shipping I don't know if I'd be happy not knowing what I was going to get. Unless they gave you an OTA machine with service included. The current OTA machines (Edge and Bolt) if on monthly are $7 a month or $70 a year I think. Not sure if that is true with a monthly Roamio OTA, the original 500GB model. Any non OTA only machine you'd probably end up paying $15 a month service.

I will say this, you can find used LIFETIME SERVICE Bolts for $200-300, if patient probably $200-250. The model you have, 500GB cable or OTA. Something to perhaps think about. Repairing yourself still a possibility but would run those tests I mentioned first, if the Bolt has other issues caused by the power problem replacing the drive/fan might not be enough. I'd be a bit hesitant about doing an expensive upgrade (ie larger drive) on a machine that had a power/surge whatever issue, who knows what else might be bad or suspect for the future. Especially a monthly fee machine. Good luck


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## tommage1

I thought about it a bit more. You've had this Bolt for 6 years plus? On monthly or yearly? Not sure what the monthly or yearly fees were exactly but if $15 a month or $150 a year they would have collected $900-1080 approximately? Plus the cost of the unit. I would hope they would provide you with some sort of really good deal, perhaps a unit with lifetime for maybe $100 fee. I don't know, they have done similar before, added lifetime to monthly Tivos for $99 depending on how long the person has been paying fees. I can't do your bargaining for you but maybe mention how long you have been paying fees, see what they might offer you on a lifetime device. Hoping for the best, you do have options, take their deal, attempt repair yourself, buy a used one (monthly or lifetime) or just scrap it. The six years plus is amazing IMO, I'm hoping the AC adapter would fix it, continue the six year streak.


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## aaronwt

The Bolt launched in October 2015.

My launch Bolts will be five years old this year.

Of course those were the Ebay scam Bolts. So they are only good for parts now.

Sent from my Galaxy S10


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## teeitup

Just got a out-of-warranty replacement Bolt Vox 3TB for my failed Bolt+ (four flashing lights). I was curious to see what 3TB drive they are using now. I removed the cover over the hard drive. Still has the same 3TB WD drive (WD30NPRZ). Interesting that the new box had a manufacture/renewed date of March 2020 but the hard drive manufacture date was Oct 2016. Tivo must have a stockpile of these.


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## Tony_T

I wish TiVo would sell just the WD30NPRZ


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## MJedi

Hello all,

So I'm getting the itch to upgrade the hard drive in my white Bolt 1TB. Reading through this thread, the Toshiba drive (MQ03ABB200) is the one that is highly recommended. I found 2 listings on eBay for a new one. However, since it's no longer made, are there newer 2.5-inch drives that work in the Bolt?

I'm assuming I can still copy my recordings to the new drive using MFSTools? It's been a while since I've done TiVo hard drive upgrades. I'm still on TE3.

Thanks!


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## Tony_T

That Toshiba and the WD20NPVZ 15” (discontinued years ago) are the two 2 ½ recommended for the TiVo.
Weakness is another place to look (expensive)
Best option now is to hook up an external 3½ (need to connect to the board, not the sata port, there are a few posts on how-to here)


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## tommage1

MJedi said:


> Hello all,
> 
> So I'm getting the itch to upgrade the hard drive in my white Bolt 1TB. Reading through this thread, the Toshiba drive (MQ03ABB200) is the one that is highly recommended. I found 2 listings on eBay for a new one. However, since it's no longer made, are there newer 2.5-inch drives that work in the Bolt?
> 
> I'm assuming I can still copy my recordings to the new drive using MFSTools? It's been a while since I've done TiVo hard drive upgrades. I'm still on TE3.
> 
> Thanks!


Seems to be an old post but a current reply to a year old question so I will add a bit in case anyone checks this thread for fairly current info.

No, the largest CURRENT model CMR 2.5 drive is the WD 1TB Red Plus. And there most likely will never be a larger 2.5 CMR ever made again due to SSDs. External recommended, using 3.5" CMR drive, even the best CMR 2.5 drive will probably last 2-3 years, 3.5s can/should last 5 years or more. And with a Bolt you want a drive that can last as long as possible, see below.

Yes, you can copy. BUT with a Bolt have to be VERY careful. Once you swap in a different drive (your copy) you cannot put the old one back in, as soon as ANYTHING changes on the new drive. Do not put in the new drive for a test or anything until you do the copy. Or everything will be lost on the original drive, well not lost but the map to it which is on the MB flash drive will be lost so you can never access the recordings again. Pretty much do the copy and expand but make sure you do it correctly, cannot swap drives back and forth in a Bolt, will lose access to everything on both drives. A good reason to stick with Roamios over Bolt/Edge if Roamio serves your needs.


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## zombiephysicist

Well my friend and I have been using 7.68TB 2.5" SSDs now for 31 months, beating the crap out of them. Works great. Thread here:

5TB Bolt Drive to 7.68TB SSD Upgrade, Best Approach?


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## tommage1

zombiephysicist said:


> Well my friend and I have been using 7.68TB 2.5" SSDs now for 31 months, beating the crap out of them. Works great. Thread here:
> 
> 5TB Bolt Drive to 7.68TB SSD Upgrade, Best Approach?


I've found this to be an interesting experiment. Good to get another update (31 months). Approaching the "maximum" the best CMR 2.5"s last, most last 2-3 years max. If I remember correctly the SSD will only work with TE3 though correct?


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## zombiephysicist

tommage1 said:


> I've found this to be an interesting experiment. Good to get another update (31 months). Approaching the "maximum" the best CMR 2.5"s last, most last 2-3 years max. If I remember correctly the SSD will only work with TE3 though correct?


Thats what I was told. I never upgraded to TE4 as I do not like it. Not sure if newer versions of TE4 have been upgraded or not to deal with newer drivers. My guess is not.


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## aaronwt

MJedi said:


> Hello all,
> 
> So I'm getting the itch to upgrade the hard drive in my white Bolt 1TB. Reading through this thread, the Toshiba drive (MQ03ABB200) is the one that is highly recommended. I found 2 listings on eBay for a new one. However, since it's no longer made, are there newer 2.5-inch drives that work in the Bolt?
> 
> I'm assuming I can still copy my recordings to the new drive using MFSTools? It's been a while since I've done TiVo hard drive upgrades. I'm still on TE3.
> 
> Thanks!


I got my 2TB renewed drive 13 months ago from Amazon. For one of my Bolts. It was under $60 and I have yet to run into any problems with it.

I see they are under $50 now on Amazon.

Sent from my Galaxy S21


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## pl1

aaronwt said:


> I got my 2TB renewed drive 13 months ago from Amazon. For one of my Bolts. It was under $60 and I have yet to run into any problems with it. I see they are under $50 now on Amazon.


There are still some new (old stock) Toshiba's for $60 at Walmart. (Sold and shipped by goHardDrive)
Toshiba MQ03ABB200 2TB 5400RPM 16MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 2.5" (15mm) Mobile Hard Drive - 3 Year Warranty


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## tommage1

pl1 said:


> There are still some new (old stock) Toshiba's for $60 at Walmart. (Sold and shipped by goHardDrive)
> Toshiba MQ03ABB200 2TB 5400RPM 16MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 2.5" (15mm) Mobile Hard Drive - 3 Year Warranty


That is interesting, how do you know they are new/old stock? If you are going by the warranty, warranty on these is provided by GHD themselves, not manufacturer (which is good, Toshiba HD warranty stinks.) Would probably be good to check with them by email. I checked the actual GHD site. They don't have the ABB200 on their own site which is strange.


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## pl1

tommage1 said:


> That is interesting, how do you know they are new/old stock? If you are going by the warranty, warranty on these is provided by GHD themselves, not manufacturer (which is good, Toshiba HD warranty stinks.) Would probably be good to check with them by email. I checked the actual GHD site. They don't have the ABB200 on their own site which is strange.


You never know for sure, but in this very recent post, it says the drive came in a sealed bag, and I have purchased new (used stock) from goharddrive myself in the past. Bolt HDD Upgrades in 2021


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## aaronwt

tommage1 said:


> That is interesting, how do you know they are new/old stock? If you are going by the warranty, warranty on these is provided by GHD themselves, not manufacturer (which is good, Toshiba HD warranty stinks.) Would probably be good to check with them by email. I checked the actual GHD site. They don't have the ABB200 on their own site which is strange.


I bought over a dozen of the 4TB Seagate Terascale Hard drives from GoHardDrive through Newegg or Ebay or Amazon. For my unRAIDs. I had an issue with one of them and I had no problem getting them to exchange the defective drive. I just had to provide them the serial number and receipt info before they approved the exchange .

Sent from my Tab S6 Lite Gray


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## tommage1

pl1 said:


> You never know for sure, but in this very recent post, it says the drive came in a sealed bag, and I have purchased new (used stock) from goharddrive myself in the past. Bolt HDD Upgrades in 2021


Well they all come in sealed bags, even refurbs. However GHD is good about answering questions about new/OS vs refurb. They have sold both new/OS and refurb ABB200s in the past. Normally they list if item is refurb on their site but since this going through Walmart I'd double check.

Just a comment on refurbs in general. I wonder what exactly refurb mean on a hard drive? I've seen multiple info. Many seem to just format/clean the drive and sell it as refurb. Some check for bad sectors, some do not. Some reset the hours to zero, some do not. I bought a 3TB refurb from Newegg. Got a drive with over 40K hours and some reallocated sectors to boot. I suppose I prefer a drive where they do NOT reset the hours to zero, if they do you will never know how "used" it is, like mine, over 40K hours. I will say this, I doubt anyone REALLY refurbs a hard drive. Like taking apart, new parts etc. Soooooo, I'd avoid refurbs. Especially on 2.5" drives that will see heavy use in a Tivo.


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## tommage1

aaronwt said:


> I bought over a dozen of the 4TB Seagate Terascale Hard drives from GoHardDrive through Newegg or Ebay. For my unRAIDs. I had an issue with one of them and I had no problem getting them to exchange the defective drive. I just had to provide them the serial number and receipt info before they approved the exchange .
> 
> Sent from my Tab S6 Lite Gray


They are pretty good with warranties I think. I also bought a new/OS 4TB Terascale from them. Back before the Chia crypto HD shortage/price increases. Got it for $60, free shipping and no tax. Now it is $80, still not bad but 33% more. I am kind of monitoring to see if the price goes back to $60, if so I might grab a couple more, nice drives. CMR. I have found if you buy through GHD site direct in many cases no tax. Though that may have changed now, been 6 months or so since my last purchase from them (also got one of the Toshiba 2.5 CMR 2TB for $49.99, same terms, new/OS).


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## djones18

Any update on whether GHD has TiVo Bolt 2.5“ 2TB compatible drives in stock? Has anyone purchased in last couple weeks?


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## christoman

djones18 said:


> Any update on whether GHD has TiVo Bolt 2.5“ 2TB compatible drives in stock? Has anyone purchased in last couple weeks?


Just got and installed one this week. It was GHD via Walmart. I assumed it was new because nothing was said anywhere otherwise. Working great so far.


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## djones18

Also just got and installed a Toshiba MQ3ABB200 2TB drive this week in TiVo Bolt with dead 3TB drive. It was also GHD via Walmart. Though GHD doesn't list it on their website I emailed them before ordering from Walmart to make sure they have it. Once they said yes I ordered via Walmart. Drive arrived well packaged within 5 days. Great service from GHD.

First time I've cracked a Bolt case. Not too difficult following Weakness YouTube video. Just took my time and it came open. New drive went in perfectly and formatted right up. Now using it without issues.


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