# Moving to Canada - who supports Cablecard?



## grahamwright1 (Sep 25, 2005)

Looks like we will be moving up to Canada for a while, and I'd like to take my Roamio Pro with me. Does anyone know if any of the Canadian (Ontario) cable vendors offer CableCard's or do they force you to use their equipment?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

CableCard is a U.S.-only standard mandated by the FCC. No Canadian cable companies support it.


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## grahamwright1 (Sep 25, 2005)

tarheelblue32 said:


> CableCard is a U.S.-only standard mandated by the FCC. No Canadian cable companies support it.


Not the answer I was hoping for, but many thanks anyway!


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

"TiVo devices are available in Canada for Cogeco Cable customers."
TiVo in Canada: FAQ
Don't get too excited... I don't think you can bring your own TiVo, you might check.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

You ought to at least wait until after the election, unless you're trying to beat the rush.


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## grahamwright1 (Sep 25, 2005)

ej42137 said:


> You ought to at least wait until after the election, unless you're trying to beat the rush.


Figured the border is going to be pretty busy, so I'd get an early start


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## grahamwright1 (Sep 25, 2005)

HomeUser said:


> "TiVo devices are available in Canada for Cogeco Cable customers."
> 
> Don't get too excited... I don't think you can bring your own TiVo, you might check.


Hmm, good point and I'll try to contact them and find out. Many thanks!


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## ertyu (Nov 4, 2003)

While there are no Canadian companies I'm aware of supporting Cablecard, especially for 3rd party access, many of the cable companies use Cablecards in the set-top boxes they deploy. In some cases you may be able to purchase a set-top box from the provider that uses a cablecard and transfer it to a TiVo and service will keep working.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

All cable providers "support" cablecard.

I put "support" as their set top boxes DO use cablecards. HOWEVER, *they do not support third party boxes and will nor provide subscribers with just the card*

The reason is Canadian cable providers use the exact same equipment that US cable companies do, and all the new boxes all do cablecard because they were designed for the US market. However, the cable companies pre-pair the card and units together and log it down. They will only activate boxes they sell (either direct or via a retailer) - the activation code is basically the host ID (because the unit is pre-paired and everything).

It is highly unlikely your Roamio will work. If you want to experiment, you could try activating the cable box, and then move the card to your TiVo and see if that works. After all, if it screws up the card, you can always innocently bring it back as non-working. (On my cableboxes, the M-Card slot is just screwed shut, there is no seal).

Oh yeah - don't bother buying any third party boxes and bringing them up, or buying a box ahead of time. No provider will activate a box they didn't sell, and that also means even if you buy a compatible box from a Canadian provider that's not your own, they won't activate that. (E.g., if your provider is Shaw, they won't activate Rogers, Cogeco, etc)

And no, no Canadian has any love for their cable company. If you wonder what the US would've been like if the FCC didn't make those laws, come to Canada. Even Comcast's X1 set top box is more advanced than what you will find. We're backwards, telecommunications wise (TV, phone, internet).


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## leswar (Apr 14, 2005)

Whatever happen to the TiVo Canada hackers on Yahoo groups a few back.
They re-purposed S1 & S2 TiVos for Canada. I think they dissolved because Canada official got TiVo service. So did that (TiVo service) disappear too?


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Pretty much, because back then, the S1 and S2 TiVos worked with OTA and cable in Canada just as well as they did in the US. I still have a S2DT, because it works with a cable box which is digital

These days, all Canadian cable providers, at least the big ones (Rogers, Shaw) are encrypted QAM and have dropped analog cable entirely. 

And with none of them approving 3rd party units not supplied by them, and with all signals being encrypted QAM (no more analog) short of ripping a cablecard out of one of the boxes and putting it in TiVo, there is no way to do it. 

The only way to use TiVo in Canada is a S1/S2 via a cable box (SDTV only) or go OTA. It won't work with cable. And the cableboxes look like something from a decade back - it's amazing how much TiVo can spur the competition to giving you stuff like the Comcast X1 and others.


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## viperdiablo (Sep 2, 2015)

Worf said:


> Pretty much, because back then, the S1 and S2 TiVos worked with OTA and cable in Canada just as well as they did in the US. I still have a S2DT, because it works with a cable box which is digital
> 
> These days, all Canadian cable providers, at least the big ones (Rogers, Shaw) are encrypted QAM and have dropped analog cable entirely.
> 
> ...


That's exactly what I did. Took the cable card out of my own dcx3400. Put that card into a tivo. Roamio . This worked with two providers in Canada. The trickiest part if I can say that was setting up a account with tivo. As there online activation process although it shows you can enter a canadian address it won't go.through. You have to set up a American address .


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## grahamwright1 (Sep 25, 2005)

viperdiablo said:


> That's exactly what I did. Took the cable card out of my own dcx3400. Put that card into a tivo. Roamio . This worked with two providers in Canada.


Do you remember which CDN cable providers it worked with?

Were you able to get any guide data for the CDN provider? How?


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## viperdiablo (Sep 2, 2015)

grahamwright1 said:


> Do you remember which CDN cable providers it worked with?
> 
> Were you able to get any guide data for the CDN provider? How?


Two providers were Shaw and eastlink. The setup process of the TiVo allows you to select either canada or USA as country of residence. After selecting Canada it asks for postal code. After it asks you to selcct your provider. All guide data is available. No VOD. Netflix, Spotify and youtube work.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

With TiVo, I recall there was two ways. Before they had their systems set up for Canada, you used a special address.

Basically your street address in Address Line 1, your city, province and postal code in Line 2, then Leo, WY, 82327 in the City, State and Zip fields.

My Canadian account is set up that way, and the page is gone now, but that's how TiVO had told people how to do it. It displays correctly - you see your address, but not Leo, WY, in the address field.

As I only have a 648 series 3 with S-Cards only, I can't verify this method still works (using the M-Card from an activated box with TiVo). Though if I can get a bolt I could try this with one of my DVRs. Is it as simple as activating the box, making sure it works, then just sticking it in TiVo? Or is there some setup required to get it to work (not sure how it's supposed to be done)..


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## viperdiablo (Sep 2, 2015)

Worf said:


> With TiVo, I recall there was two ways. Before they had their systems set up for Canada, you used a special address.
> 
> Basically your street address in Address Line 1, your city, province and postal code in Line 2, then Leo, WY, 82327 in the City, State and Zip fields.
> 
> ...


With regards to setting up a TiVo account. I did this a year ago and it allowed you to ,online, enter Canadian address info but would never go through (accept it) . So you are right about entering a special address. Here is some info taken from a vpn providers website on what needs to be done.

" Use your own street address that is associated with the billing address on the credit card you are using and convert the postal code into a valid zip code as per our instructions below. Be sure to take note of the city and state associated with the new zip code as you need this for your account set up.

- Construct a VALID existing 5 digit ZIP code from your postal code as follows:

- Take the digits from your postcode. The post code M1R 2L1 becomes 121.

- Add zeros to the end if you have less than 5 digits in your postal code. So the 121 becomes ZIP 12100

- Use the USPS zip code tool to verify that it is a valid existing ZIP code.

- If it is not an existing code, then add 1 to the last digit and try to verify again. So if our example of 12100 is not a valid zip code, then try 12101. If still not valid add one to the last digit until you get to 12107, which is a valid US ZIP Code."

As for the mcard. I already had a activated dcx3400 digital box. I just took that mcard out and placed it into the TiVo . Went through the setup process and worked no problem. I believe only a mcard will work in the TiVo not a s card. Could be wrong on that though.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Yeah. My 648 TiVo S3 is S-cards only. But if I can just take the mcard from my activated box and use that directly, then I'd probably upgrade to a Bolt. Or get that TV tuner card for my HTPC with card support.

I wonder if TiVo's way of signing up with a Canadian address still works with their systems - like I said, using their Leo, WY address which triggers some sort of special handing of the address. That was TiVo's way of handling it in their systems, and they handle the billing, etc correctly that way.

Interestingly, Cogeco offers TiVo service... http://www.cogeco.ca/web/on/en/residential/tv/tivo_overview/ since 2014.


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## viperdiablo (Sep 2, 2015)

Worf said:


> Yeah. My 648 TiVo S3 is S-cards only. But if I can just take the mcard from my activated box and use that directly, then I'd probably upgrade to a Bolt. Or get that TV tuner card for my HTPC with card support.
> 
> I wonder if TiVo's way of signing up with a Canadian address still works with their systems - like I said, using their Leo, WY address which triggers some sort of special handing of the address. That was TiVo's way of handling it in their systems, and they handle the billing, etc correctly that way.
> 
> Interestingly, Cogeco offers TiVo service... http://www.cogeco.ca/web/on/en/residential/tv/tivo_overview/ since 2014.


Yes congeco I believe is the only provider in Canada to use TiVo. They use the roamio pro model . They are only in the Easter canada provinces. Ontario and Quebec I believe . I don't think they will activate a store bought TiVo bolt or roamio. 
Using the method I outlined above worked to activate online. I know someone awhile back said talking to a TiVo rep they actually set up a special address . So you may be correct on the Leo ,wy address. The way I have done it has worked for over a year. No billing issues.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

yeah, no provider in Canada will activate anything they didn't sell. You can't even buy a Shaw box and use it on Rogers, for example. They only activate boxes they sold (or sold through resellers).

Guess we'll; have to keep the fact that their cards don't require pairing to ourselves otherwise they'll crack down and deactivate all the cards that aren't in the right boxes.


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## Jethroh (Dec 21, 2016)

Hi,
Any new info about using Tivo and switching in M-Card cable card from an existing Shaw digital box?
We just bought a Tivo Bolt that does OTA but it would be way better with cable, I'm.
I will probably to try this unless I confirm there's is absolutely no way it would work and it would mess the Cable Card up so it was unusable anywhere. Any advice out there if someone has tried this?
My Shaw box is a DCX3510 M.

Thanks,
Jeff


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## ertyu (Nov 4, 2003)

It works. Occasionally it might require swapping back into the Shaw box to reactivate.


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## Jethroh (Dec 21, 2016)

ertyu said:


> It works. Occasionally it might require swapping back into the Shaw box to reactivate.


It shows a screen entitled " this screen is displayed on behalf of you cable provider" and then goes on to show Cable Card ID, Host ID, Data, Unitaddress, Card S/N, eCM, Host MAC, Host Type. With eCM MAC listed as unknown and Host MAC all zeros.
Then it asks me to "Press CLEAR to exit?"
Which I just did......update you shortly.
Thanks.


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## Jethroh (Dec 21, 2016)

Jethroh said:


> It shows a screen entitled " this screen is displayed on behalf of you cable provider" and then goes on to show Cable Card ID, Host ID, Data, Unitaddress, Card S/N, eCM, Host MAC, Host Type. With eCM MAC listed as unknown and Host MAC all zeros.
> Then it asks me to "Press CLEAR to exit?"
> Which I just did......update you shortly.
> Thanks.


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## Jethroh (Dec 21, 2016)

Yahoo! Tivo Bolt hooked up to Shaw!
Thanks so much.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Cool. Quick question though. If Canada doesn't use cable cards, how exactly do you take one out of a Canadian cable box?

In the US, if I take a card paired with one device and put it in another, it also works great ... for 24 hrs. Then it doesn't work anymore. So is the occasional swapping back to the Shaw box a daily thing?


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

I say give it a go. If it messes up the card, just take the box back to Shaw and say it stopped working (there's no seals or anything other than a screwed-in cover over the slot).

Let us know how it goes - if it works, or if it fails.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

mdavej said:


> Cool. Quick question though. If Canada doesn't use cable cards, how exactly do you take one out of a Canadian cable box?
> 
> In the US, if I take a card paired with one device and put it in another, it also works great ... for 24 hrs. Then it doesn't work anymore. So is the occasional swapping back to the Shaw box a daily thing?


Canada doesn't mandate the use of cablecards. However, because the US does, it means the Canadian cable boxes are the ones that support it, and when you buy the box (you cannot supply your own), it comes with the card inside it already. Usually they just want the Host ID number to activate the box. They're usually behind a screwed in panel you can unscrew and retrieve the card.

I guess we'll have to wait to see if there's the 24 hour thing.


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## Jethroh (Dec 21, 2016)

Worf said:


> Canada doesn't mandate the use of cablecards. However, because the US does, it means the Canadian cable boxes are the ones that support it, and when you buy the box (you cannot supply your own), it comes with the card inside it already. Usually they just want the Host ID number to activate the box. They're usually behind a screwed in panel you can unscrew and retrieve the card.
> 
> I guess we'll have to wait to see if there's the 24 hour thing.


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## Jethroh (Dec 21, 2016)

No issues yet. Works great! Yea!!!!


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## Jethroh (Dec 21, 2016)

Still working and wow, it is so nice to be back on TIVO. We can't use Hutu, etc. which is on the Bolt and most Amazon Prime content is not available in Canada. Netflix and Youtube work really well. The Bolt is such a pleasure to use...


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## seadooxp3 (Nov 16, 2017)

Can you provide more details as which receiver you got the M card from and steps to use with Tivo Bolt?


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## lajohn27 (Dec 29, 2003)

seadooxp3 said:


> Can you provide more details as which receiver you got the M card from and steps to use with Tivo Bolt?


I can. 

Just recently acquired a TIVO Bolt and got it up and going out west with a cable provider who simply doesn't pair their devices. The "M-Card" donation came from a 6 tuner Gateway on kijiji.ca which was customer owned. I acquired and activated. ALso activated a DCX3200 M - and that also worked. It must be an "M" card for the western cable providers.

Once activated, I easily put in my TIVO and ta-da. I have a ROAMIO coming off EBay for the bedroom (1TB with a 3TB external ESATA drive) Woot!

It was suprisingly easy and I was super angry that I didn't try this sooner.

As for the bunch of folks emulating the TIVO service years ago - I wrote the FAQ for that group back in the day. Once the service was 'legal' we shut down. I had legal TIVO service for about 3 years to 2008 when HD was hitting hard and digital cable was the only way to get it.

I am SOOOOOOOO happy to have TIVO back in the house. I don't even care so much that Multi Service Discount went away.. (!)

*COST SUMMARY:*
GATEWAY AND 2 PORTALS - $60 = 1 M Card
DCX3200 M $40 = 1 M-Card
TIVO BOLT VOX $245 w shipping and duties
TIVO Roamio 1 TB $156 w shipping and duties 
3 TB Upgrade Drive $ 78 w shipping and duties 

*Total Cost : about $578*

*Total Joy : PRICELE$$*


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## seadooxp3 (Nov 16, 2017)

lajohn27 said:


> I can.
> 
> Just recently acquired a TIVO Bolt and got it up and going out west with a cable provider who simply doesn't pair their devices. The "M-Card" donation came from a 6 tuner Gateway on kijiji.ca which was customer owned. I acquired and activated. ALso activated a DCX3200 M - and that also worked. It must be an "M" card for the western cable providers.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing....
Can you tell me which provider in west.. not Rogers correct???

Problem for me is that I have bolt but ina, in Toronto and my area is covered by Rogers cable that doesn't have cable card in their receivers...


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

The only cable provider in the west is Shaw cable.

The Gateway and the 3200-M are two receivers Shaw has for their boxes.

It looks like Rogers Ontario uses Cisco boxes so perhaps their cards require taking the box apart more - Shaw uses the Motorola/Arris cards and boxes and it's much too easy to remove them.


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## seadooxp3 (Nov 16, 2017)

I just looked inside 3 Rogers cable box and they don't have cable card!!!!
so the only available option is for folks in west with Shaw cable


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## GS-Edm (Aug 13, 2018)

lajohn

I realize the thread is a bit old, just wonder if you can update your experience? Still working smooth?

I'm an unhappy Gateway prisoner here in the west. I still have a S2DT with a lifetime subscription and a 3 yr old 1TB upgrade from weaknees and I still prefer some things about that 12 yr old tech to what I have from my cable provider. Obviously picture isn't great but it's a reasonable backup when my wife and daughter fill the Gateway with their shows...

So if I order a Bolt and find a pre-owned gateway to scab the card from and I'm good to go?

Curious about the "activated" notes. You bought the used Gateway and Arris and had to activate them first with the provider, then remove the cards? Provider was okay with activating used equipment?

Thanks!

[QUOTE="lajohn27, post: 11365071, Just recently acquired a TIVO Bolt and got it up and going out west with a cable provider who simply doesn't pair their devices. The "M-Card" donation came from a 6 tuner Gateway on kijiji.ca which was customer owned. I acquired and activated. ALso activated a DCX3200 M - and that also worked. It must be an "M" card for the western cable providers.

Once activated, I easily put in my TIVO and ta-da. I have a ROAMIO coming off EBay for the bedroom (1TB with a 3TB external ESATA drive) Woot!

It was suprisingly easy and I was super angry that I didn't try this sooner.

As for the bunch of folks emulating the TIVO service years ago - I wrote the FAQ for that group back in the day. Once the service was 'legal' we shut down. I had legal TIVO service for about 3 years to 2008 when HD was hitting hard and digital cable was the only way to get it.

I am SOOOOOOOO happy to have TIVO back in the house. I don't even care so much that Multi Service Discount went away.. (!)

*COST SUMMARY:*
GATEWAY AND 2 PORTALS - $60 = 1 M Card
DCX3200 M $40 = 1 M-Card
TIVO BOLT VOX $245 w shipping and duties
TIVO Roamio 1 TB $156 w shipping and duties 
3 TB Upgrade Drive $ 78 w shipping and duties 

*Total Cost : about $578*[/QUOTE]


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## lajohn27 (Dec 29, 2003)

Still working.. have both boxes going / of course if I done even a little bit of research I would have got one of those TiVo minis for the second room but I get around to it.

Shaw had no problem activating the boxes that I acquired via Kijiji. Once they were activated and running for 24 hours just to be safe, I then executed the life-saving transplant technique to the TiVo and I'm maintaining the old Shaw boxes because the TiVo won't update Channel subscriptions. 

For example a month ago I changed what I was getting from Shaw I had to put those boxes back in service, put the cablecard back in the correct box then wait for it to update and then move it back to the TiVo. That's a once-a-year thing like hardly big deal.

I must stress the cablecards won't update authorized channels unless they're back in the original box that they were activated with originally. 

Enjoy!


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## Jethroh (Dec 21, 2016)

It is still working for me here on Shaw in B.C.
Channels seem slightly messed up. Maybe I will take out and refresh it by putting it back in the original Shaw box for 24 hrs so channel line-up are updated. Thanks.


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