# 20.4.1 Release Notes (Premiere)



## TiVoMargret (Feb 3, 2008)

We will begin updating TiVo Roamio, TiVo Premiere, and TiVo Mini boxes with 20.4.1 "Spring Update" later today.

Here are some of the changes:
- addressed issues where customers were seeing V112 errors when trying to stream between boxes
- improved interaction with HDMI, and fixed cases where TiVo Mini was rebooting due to HDMI issues
- improvements to Netflix stability
- turned off the troublesome "overlapping recordings" behavior
- reduced the cases where a black screen appeared after watching a video
- YouTube and Opera Store Apps should now work with all video resolutions (not just 720p and greater)
- created a new V311 error message when an app requires 720p support, and the box has that resolution disabled
- support for playing cable video on demand on a DVR and a Mini simultaneously (or 2 Minis simultaneously) *if* the cable company's configuration supports it
- improved handling and messaging of C133 errors, and added a reference to our new site for updates related to outages: http://status.tivo.com
- VOD and apps can now be launched in C133 mode
- new "Default Recording Options" screen inside Settings > Recording to set your preferred "Keep at most", New/Reruns settings, and padding for new Season Passes and WishLists.

The update should be available some time after 4:30pm PT for those that signed up at http://tivo.com/priority yesterday. We will continue to update any new priority sign-ups every few days. If you decide not to sign up for the priority list, your box will automatically update some time within the next 30 days.

--Margret

P.S. We have some cool stuff lined up for the "Summer Update". It is a great time to join our Beta program if you want to be part of the (secret) inner circle -- especially if you have a TiVo Premiere: https://fieldtrials.tivo.com/signup/default.html


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## Bernpaud (Sep 24, 2011)

No Amazon Prime? Ugh.


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## Teeps (Aug 16, 2001)

Thanks for the update.
Do beta testers get any "consideration" for participating in the program?


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

Teeps said:


> Thanks for the update.
> Do beta testers get any "consideration" for participating in the program?


"consideration"???


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

sbiller said:


> "consideration"???


consideration = something of value.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

tarheelblue32 said:


> consideration = something of value.


Fair enough... Is information valuable? 

In general, you might get a parting gift for active participation but it is truly small consideration compared to the time required.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

All I have on my biggest wish list is the ability to revise a channel in a Season Pass and the ability to have 'On Demand' with Charter cable in my market - especially the last one. 

Oh, and delete some of the junk like those little boxes on the top of the screen and the ability to get rid of stuff like 'what to watch now'. I'd like more control as to what is on my Tivo Central and 'My Shows' screens.

Anyway, the update sounds like it has addressed a lot of problems that some people report here. That's very nice.


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## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

I was really hoping to see the Roamio UI pushed out for the Premiere by now, a little disappointed that it hasn't. 

I'm also still waiting for TiVo to fix the truncated program information. I mean there's literally no reason for this to have not been fixed in the past year. TiVo broke it, please fix it. I mean this is a constantly used and constantly seen feature and a customer would assume this would be the first thing fixed over anything else.

The status site and the tie in to codes displaying on the device is a great idea.
Do you know when the HDMI port will be updated to version 1.4a ?

I'm hoping this update fixes the "card wrong state" error I keep getting. I've replaced cablecards, had all the wiring in the house replaced, even took all the TiVo's off MoCA and had the cable company's engineers out (yes it's gotten that bad they escalated it to the engineers) They said "wait for TiVo to fix it." 

Any word on when the EAS banner is going to be redesigned for HD?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Why the heck, in the new default recording options, isn't there one for KUID? That's the one I would much prefer over all the others....major omission...


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## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

Would love if there would be a way to turn off the thumb ratings all together since I never use it and I always have to hit the thumbs down button to "neutralize" the automatic thumbs up every time I set a recording through the channel guide or hit the record button on the remote. I've found myself having to use the iPad app in order to avoid "activating" the thumbs up.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

JWhites said:


> I was really hoping to see the Roamio UI pushed out for the Premiere by now, a little disappointed that it hasn't.
> 
> I'm also still waiting for TiVo to fix the truncated program information. I mean there's literally no reason for this to have not been fixed in the past year. TiVo broke it, please fix it. I mean this is a constantly used and constantly seen feature and a customer would assume this would be the first thing fixed over anything else.
> 
> ...


Can the premieres even run the Roamio ui are they even powerful enough?


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

Bierboy said:


> Why the heck, in the new default recording options, isn't there one for KUID? That's the one I would much prefer over all the others....major omission...


Why the heck would anyone ever use KUID? It's about the most self-destructive option that you can use on a TiVo.

Use it for individual family videos or stuff that really matters, but turn it on for even one Season Pass and you open up a world of hurt. The folks that use KUID as the default keep posting about weird problems.


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## Teeps (Aug 16, 2001)

sbiller said:


> Fair enough... Is information valuable?
> 
> In general, you might get a parting gift for active participation but it is truly small consideration compared to the time required.


For folks on a fixed income.
A penny saved is truly earned.

I would expect at least a month's credit for month to month contracts.
Or.
A discount on a lifetime subscription.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

ggieseke said:


> The folks that use KUID as the default keep posting about weird problems.


My guess is that this is the reason for not including it.


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## Blacknotice (Mar 29, 2010)

Please, pretty please fix the MLB.tv app. I can't leave the app without the tivo rebooting

Thank you


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## andyf (Feb 23, 2000)

Teeps said:


> For folks on a fixed income.
> A penny saved is truly earned.
> 
> I would expect at least a month's credit for month to month contracts.
> ...


It's generally made of plastic and I'm not talking about a debit or credit card.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

ggieseke said:


> Why the heck would anyone ever use KUID? It's about the most self-destructive option that you can use on a TiVo.
> 
> Use it for individual family videos or stuff that really matters, but turn it on for even one Season Pass and you open up a world of hurt. The folks that use KUID as the default keep posting about weird problems.


That's just baloney. I've never had problems with KUID, and I've used it as a default ever since the S3 was introduced. We should be given the option to make it a default....or not. Just give us the option, TiVo...


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

andyf said:


> It's generally made of plastic and I'm not talking about a debit or credit card.


Sometimes soft and fuzzy too...


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

Was hoping this was fixed with this latest release but not. Almost everyday when switching channels with numbers, the channel does not switch to. Has anyone else been seeing this happen?


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

My Elite/XL4 which is on 20.4.1, had a random reboot tonight at 10:04pm Arizona Time.

It has not randomly rebooted since the "bad" TiVo data issue several weeks ago.

By the time I got around to looking at the logs they had already been uploaded to TiVo and the logs refreshed.


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## LI-SVT (Sep 28, 2006)

So, I guess analog tuning on the antenna input is not coming back. This is disipointing.


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## dcstager (Feb 16, 2002)

My MLB app stopped crashing, but it does hiccup pretty often replaying the same few seconds over and over then moving on to continue. I actually wish there were some instructions that detailed all the ways to navigate the app features. I find myself hitting the TiVo button or the left arrow at the wrong menu point and closing the app and have to restart it which takes some time. But still the MLB app is awesome on TiVo. Best way to watch baseball without a doubt.


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## DEC2955 (May 3, 2009)

I would like to voice my opinion on having off air tuner working on a Premiere 4 (again?) as an option... it seems that even your 'Chat' and 'Live' Tech support agents thought that the P4 would allow for off air recordings!!

Another feature I would like to see on the Premiere / Roamio series is shared tuner(s).. this way if you have four shows recording on one device, still be able to tune in a show using the tuner from another device.. some what like you can do with a MINI but with out having to choose the device..


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## chrispitude (Apr 23, 2005)

timstack8969 said:


> Was hoping this was fixed with this latest release but not. Almost everyday when switching channels with numbers, the channel does not switch to. Has anyone else been seeing this happen?


I have not seen this. What does it do? Is it certain channels? How often does it happen? (You said once a day - is this once per few tries, once in a hundred tries, etc.)


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## Atomic Buffalo (Nov 21, 2002)

What is the troublesome overlapping recordings behavior that is being turned off?


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Atomic Buffalo said:


> What is the troublesome overlapping recordings behavior that is being turned off?


There is an entire Thread:
Overlapping recordings cause glitch?
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=512819&highlight=overlap


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Atomic Buffalo said:


> What is the troublesome overlapping recordings behavior that is being turned off?


That's where overlapping (or padded) recordings are handled on the same tuner, as opposed to utilizing another tuner, or just clipping the overlap, depending on the overlap protection setting.

It now will go back to padded and overlapping requiring an additional tuner, instead of just one, which TiVo hasn't quite perfected yet, or clipped recordings, depending on your settings.

There are threads devoted to the subject matter, which there is more to than my attempt at a brief explanation.


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## jgametest (Oct 31, 2013)

Since Margret announced the update, I posted my TsN on the priority list but still have not received the update. Every day before going to work and before bed have been connecting to Tivo but no change. When is the official rollout suppose to be?


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

jgametest said:


> Since Margret announced the update, I posted my TsN on the priority list but still have not received the update. Every day before going to work and before bed have been connecting to Tivo but no change. When is the official rollout suppose to be?


tivomargret posted in the roamio update thread the rollout was temporarily suspended for the priority list due to unexpected behaviors some were experiencing.

i've been using since the first day without any issues, but i don't network multiple tivos.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

The only issue I've had since the upgrade is occasionally sluggish menus (waaaaay slower than normal for a Premiere)....


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

ajwees41 said:


> Can the premieres even run the Roamio ui are they even powerful enough?


i haven't read about any significant differences, and the software version is the same.


Bierboy said:


> The only issue I've had since the upgrade is occasionally sluggish menus (waaaaay slower than normal for a Premiere)....


bummer, and that's not the first i've read about the issue. i wonder if it's related to the number of tuners or networking.

not trying to throw it in your face, my pxl hasn't slowed, and i've noticed the small "new update" performance boost i generally see immediately following an update - the boost always fades in a few weeks, though.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

The more I use it, the snappier the menus have become. In other words, it may be "settling in" for lack of a better term. They were EXTREMELY slow to begin....but now they're pretty much back to normal sluggishness...


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## Loach (Jan 11, 2013)

I noticed my P4 got the update yesterday even though I wasn't on the priority update list. I was getting some black screen weirdness when I first turned it on, but that seemed to be remedied by changing the channel and navigating in and out of the menus a couple times. 

Like Bierboy, I did notice worse than normal sluggishness though. The Premiere was only receiving about half the remote commands I sent (yellow light wasn't flashing on the other ones). Hope mine "settles in" soon.

Didn't check my Roamio or Minis to see if they also got the update.


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

Received another "Pending Restart" for Premiere. Did they send out a Patch?


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

my daily call completed moments ago, and it's not pending restart - i'll check tomorrow.


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

Software version looks like it rolled back to: 20.3.8-01-2. Wiped out my Favorites on guide.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

rolled _back_? wow, figured that would be used only as a last resort...interesting.

thanks for the heads up on favorites, i'll make a hard copy before rebooting if i go to pending.


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

Also the Clock was way off. Re-Running guide set up


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

NorthAlabama said:


> rolled _back_? wow, figured that would be used only as a last resort...interesting.
> 
> thanks for the heads up on favorites, i'll make a hard copy before rebooting if i go to pending.


have you tried connecting again to see if it was just a bad install?


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

roamio rollbacks are being posted today:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=516488​
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=516485​


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Why is this being rolled back? I haven't noticed any problems with the update and none of the problems others have reported would appear to warrant a rollback.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

morac said:


> Why is this being rolled back? I haven't noticed any problems with the update and none of the problems others have reported would appear to warrant a rollback.


 Purely a guess, but there's been reports of unattended reboots with 20.4.1 (I'm not seeing that myself).


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I wonder what happens to the "default" settings once the rollback occurs. Does the box continue to use them with the user being unable to modify them or do they just go away.

Going back to old software after data on the box has updated is never a good idea since the results can be unpredictable.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

i'm loading following a daily call now. if it completes with "pending" for the rollback, i'm deleting shows in my deleted folder before reboot (see other 20.4.1 thread), along with backing up my favorites - this is a huge nuisance.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

I was on the priority list and got the update as soon as it was rolled out. I've read of the issues being experienced by some Roamio users, but I have had zero problems on either my Premiere or Premiere Elite with the new FW; and there's been no sign of a rollback here as of this hour. 

Here's hoping the major glitches are confined to the Roamio line so we don't have to suffer along with those users.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

chiguy50 said:


> Here's hoping the major glitches are confined to the Roamio line so we don't have to suffer along with those users.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

cherry ghost said:


> KMTTG is great for clearing out the Deleted folder


Yes, I'd be very mad, if it weren't for KMTTG.

It took about 5 minutes to clear ~300 to 500 deleted items (each) on three Roamios, and 99% of that 5 minutes was just letting KMTTG clear them out.

Ctrl-A to select all, then press permanently delete.

Don't try to do it on more than one TiVo at a time, as it (in my case) didn't work to try and do them all. Still, only ~5 minutes total, to wait for one to finish, move on to the next, wait, then I did the third TiVo, easy-peasy, and done.

Perhaps multiple instances of KMTTG running could do multiple, concurrently, but that might have taken longer.


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## Cheezmo (Apr 26, 2004)

Engadget article with tweet from Margret that roll backs should not be happening...

http://www.engadget.com/2014/04/11/tivo-spring-update/


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Cheezmo said:


> Engadget article with tweet from Margret that roll backs should not be happening...
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2014/04/11/tivo-spring-update/


That fact has been spread around pretty thoroughly, already. But, I guess a few fresh reminders might still help those who don't read unless it's the last post.

There have been many reports of it still happening. So, I feel the best thing people can do to prepare "just in case", is to clear their deleted folder. KMTTG is a godsend for making that quick and painless. Otherwise, if somebody gets hit with the rollback (which may have downloaded and not yet installed), they get to re-delete everything that was already deleted.

People also shouldn't count on having time to wait to clear out the deleted folder, as it seems random, unexpected, and unscheduled, reboots are all the rage right now. Ok, maybe not that bad, but I've seen enough to convince myself.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

margret posted this to the "rolled back to 20.3" thread in the roamio forum last night:


TiVoMargret said:


> I am so sorry that some of you experienced a rollback of software! There was an operational issue that caused some TiVo boxes (fewer than 200) to receive an incorrect version of software. We have now assigned those boxes back to the correct version, which will download the next time the box connects to the TiVo Service. (If your box is in the Pending Restart state and installs 20.3.8 when it reboots, please connect again and it will download 20.4.1.)
> 
> Again, my apologies for this issue.
> 
> --Margret


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## miadlor (Sep 4, 2003)

Since upgrade to 2 Premieres, Exiting Netflix by TiVo button reboots both DVRs.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

for the first times in over a year, i've seen a v301 error in an app and two c501 errors when exploring a show in the hdui. i'm not happy to see these return, we'll see if a soft boot helps.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I got a total system freeze when I was in the YouTube app. Videos stopped playing and I got a weird broken "Playback Error" screen with two options: Guide and Next. At that point the remote stopped working. The remote light wouldn't even blink. About a minute later the remote activity light went on and stayed on. A few minutes later the box rebooted.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

morac said:


> I got a total system freeze when I was in the YouTube app.


just experienced a spontaneous reboot...this isn't looking hopeful.


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## jgametest (Oct 31, 2013)

Hmm, I have a better idea. I will not choose to put my Tivo in harms way for Updates until all bugs can be juggled correctly. I wonder if it's to late to tell Margret, please remove me for the Priority Update. I rather wait things out for a smoother ride.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

jgametest said:


> Hmm, I have a better idea. I will not choose to put my Tivo in harms way for Updates until all bugs can be juggled correctly. I wonder if it's to late to tell Margret, please remove me for the Priority Update. I rather wait things out for a smoother ride.


I tried that with my Roamios, and later the same day the update downloaded on all three, at the same time. I didn't experience the rollback.

I don't know how hard it is to take 3 TSNs out of the queue, how much lead time is required, or even if the system was in a state to process taking them out (since I went straight to C133 as soon as the updates had downloaded and been prepared for the next reboot). So, I'm not going to fault TiVoMargret, or talk about some "person" being personally responsible for whatever has been going on.

I keep saying "never again!" to using the Priority Queue, but keep using it.

The last update had my Netflix working flawlessly, and never rebooting in Netflix (except during the "Random Reboots" period, when the TiVo service was somehow causing reboots). I was loving Netflix on TiVo. Now I'm back to "anything but TiVo" for my OTT app usage, since the Netflix reboots are back. It's possible the reboots could have happened no matter what I was doing. But, it seemed that using RW/FF was the trigger in Netflix. I get reboots no matter what I'm using the TiVo for, if anything at all.

Yeah, I'm Roamio-only now, but apparently, cross-platform posting is now OK, given the amount of Premiere talk in the Roamio thread.


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## shamilian (Mar 27, 2003)

miadlor said:


> Since upgrade to 2 Premieres, Exiting Netflix by TiVo button reboots both DVRs.


I think I experienced exiting issue. But it rebooted the UI not the whole Tivo. Rebooting the UI is not a bad design choice in this case.


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## miadlor (Sep 4, 2003)

shamilian said:


> I think I experienced exiting issue. But it rebooted the UI not the whole Tivo. Rebooting the UI is not a bad design choice in this case.


My TiVos reboot, not the ui......try the TiVo button if you can.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> The only issue I've had since the upgrade is occasionally sluggish menus (waaaaay slower than normal for a Premiere)....


I haven't seen this on the Elite yet, the occasional snags happened before the update. I've not seen any significant slowdowns in any menu so far.

I have noticed that more menus remember where you were last time, like the ToDo List, which is kind of annoying IMO. I always want to start the ToDo at the top and have to hit -> a couple of times now to get back to the top (from where it left off).


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## shamilian (Mar 27, 2003)

miadlor said:


> My TiVos reboot, not the ui......try the TiVo button if you can.


I just tried it a couple of times (pressed Tivo button while in netflix menu). It works as expected (exit to Tivo Central). I can not reproduce the UI reboot either. Maybe it was a back-end issue that caused the reboot.


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## alexofindy (Apr 16, 2010)

Well, this may not be the right place for this, but there are a few bug fix requests for upcoming software releases already posted in this thread.

I'd love to have Tivo fix the closed caption bug, which is that it loses the closed captions for recordings transferred to the Tivo in .ps container files.

I archive my Tivo shows to a Readynas NAS, which utilizes a standard Tivo interface to automatically archive shows from the Tivo that have KUID set. I can then free up disk space on my Premiere, and later transfer the shows back to the Tivo; the readynas runs a DLNA server, which appears on the Tivo's My Shows. 

Not perfect, but works pretty well, and, pretty automatically.

Problem is the shows are sent to the Readynas in program stream containers, and transfer back to the Tivo the same way. (the readynas does no transcoding or even decrypting). The closed captions are lost. They're there, but the Tivo won't display them during playback. A bug.

The workaround is to use VideoRedo on a PC to transcode them in to transport stream container files, and then transfer them to the Tivo with Tivo Desktop. this works, but it is inconvenient.

So....Tivo can you fix the issue so the TiVo can display closed captioning on .ps files? There are a bunch of federal laws out there requiring that closed captions be preserved. They probably don't apply to this specific situation, so I doubt you're under a legal obligation to fix it, but it would be the nice thing to do.

If this counts as a thread hijacking, I apologize.


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## dnorth12 (Feb 10, 2005)

Is this update dead in the water?


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

there's a post in the roamio thread the update rollout has resumed, by a customer not on the priority list.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

dnorth12 said:


> Is this update dead in the water?


Must not be, because one of my Tivos updated the night before last. Yesterday I noticed my other one was in 'pending restart' so I went ahead and restarted it to complete the update.

Only problem with that one was that it suddenly wouldn't recognize my network. So I tried just about everything I knew to do, except restarting my router since I was in the middle of something. I called Tivo and, of course, all it took was restarting my router/modem. I was trying to avoid that since every other device in my network was fine. Should have done it first, but the young man at Tivo was very nice and helpful.

Nothing noticeable has changed, however, so I need to take time to read the notes again.


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## Hurlamania (Dec 3, 2005)

It would be nice to cancel a program or modify a recording without have to be online... internet goes out at times and this wireless adapter doesn't work 1/2 the time anyway.

move down or remove the what to watch selection.

ah and if only it could time shift for program changes and long running events.

adding a show via phone is useless it needs push notifications on the tivo.

add more android features most people today don't use apple products.

i wish i could transfer my sub to a romio


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

Well I got the update on Thursday on both my Premiere 4s and when watching the TiVo in the bedroom it restarted all by itself at 12:05 AM this morning. I actually heard the sound effect "Ding" when it reset as if I actually went into the restart menu and did the restart myself.

So far my downstairs TiVo is doing fine. I also noticed they moved the Opera App to the top of the list. Navigation in the menu system is pretty fast now as I have no slowness at all.


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## changk (Feb 20, 2002)

morac said:


> I got a total system freeze when I was in the YouTube app. Videos stopped playing and I got a weird broken "Playback Error" screen with two options: Guide and Next. At that point the remote stopped working. The remote light wouldn't even blink. About a minute later the remote activity light went on and stayed on. A few minutes later the box rebooted.


Version 20.4.1-01-2-758

I'm seeing similar behavior here. I was watching a Playlist of videos sequentially. At the end of one video, maybe the 4th or 5th in the sequence, I'd get the LOADING text in the middle and it'd freeze. The first time this happened, the TiVo wouldn't respond to remote control presses; the yellow LED on the TiVo wouldn't light up either. After a few minutes, I gave up and had to power cycle to fix.

The second time it happened, the box _did_ respond to the remote control and allow me to bail out of the video, and allow me to move on.

The third time however, it froze again. This time, the yellow LED / remote activity light went on & steady on, and remained on until I power cycled about a minute or so later.


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## TiVoToo (Sep 12, 2006)

Both of my Premieres have had a spontaneous reboot in the last 2 weeks. On one, it happened when exiting Netflix. On the other, it happened while watching a recorded show - with no user input. Picture froze, then system rebooted itself. Both boxes are running 20.4.1-01-2-746. Neither box has ever had a spontaneous reboot prior.
Have also been experiencing a recent problem with both boxes where spontaneously the box stops receiving signal on all channels. The only fix is to restart the box. This problem is insidious because you don't know it has happened until you go to watch a show that was expected to have recorded, only to find it didn't.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Glad I'm avoiding using Netflix, etc, through my tivos. I found them to be too slow and wonky and now I only use either a Roku3 or a blu-ray player to go to Netflix, Amazon, etc. 

Too bad Tivo cannot seem to dial this one down.


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## jgametest (Oct 31, 2013)

My TiVo never received the update even though it was on the priority list, originally when I started seeing the group freak out from all the problems I sent an SOS message to Margret saying "Abort SHIP, remove me from the list until the final release", she never responded to Twitter so either it was done or at the bottom of the release swarm. The problem that my family was reporting to me is the Tivo went DARK as if it went to sleep and was not responding we had to power on/off the tv and then flip the channel on the TiVo. Unsure what causes this mystery also twice today in the middle of the watching a playback show the box would just return to the "Now Playing List" without touching it leaving us all scratching our heads and looking for someone with a network remote that may have triggered. No connection was made to cause that oddity.

Anyone else seeing this occur?


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

Well at 9:20 AM my bedroom Premiere 4 rebooted itself again. It made a squealing high pitched whine right when it rebooted. This is the second reboot since the firmware update. Never had any trouble with either Premiere until this update. So far my downstairs Premiere 4 is working as it should be.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

Jed1 said:


> Well at 9:20 AM my bedroom Premiere 4 rebooted itself again. It made a squealing high pitched whine right when it rebooted. This is the second reboot since the firmware update. Never had any trouble with either Premiere until this update. So far my downstairs Premiere 4 is working as it should be.


The misbehaving Premiere may have the software installed on an area of the hard disk that is beginning to fail. TiVo's, except the Roamios and last DirecTV model, have two boot areas that alternate use with each software update. So a bad spot on one of those areas can remain dormant for a long time. You may want to consider doing some disk drive diagnostics.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

CuriousMark said:


> The misbehaving Premiere may have the software installed on an area of the hard disk that is beginning to fail. TiVo's, except the Roamios and last DirecTV model, have two boot areas that alternate use with each software update. So a bad spot on one of those areas can remain dormant for a long time. You may want to consider doing some disk drive diagnostics.


Thanks for the tip but my two Premiere 4s are only 9 months old. I decided to contact Margret to see what she may suggest.


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## MMG (Dec 11, 1999)

My Premiere just rebooted coming out of Netflix.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

Jed1 said:


> Thanks for the tip but my two Premiere 4s are only 9 months old. I decided to contact Margret to see what she may suggest.


I'm not sure what you think the "only 9 months old" means. A 9 month old disk is more likely to fail than a 2 year old disk according to some studies.

Here's one study


> For the first 1.5 years, drives fail at 5.1% per year.
> For the next 1.5 years, drives fail LESS, at about 1.4% per year.
> After 3 years though, failures rates skyrocket to 11.8% per year.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

I went in and updated my field trials account again, really hoping I get into this beta. I was in all kinds of betas for S3, Slide remote, 1TB Expander, N Wireless, and S4 for a while but it's been rather lonely the last couple of years. No new betas for me to play in.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Posting about being in a past beta test is NOT a good way to try and get into a new one.

Just sayin'.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

steve614 said:


> Posting about being in a past beta test is NOT a good way to try and get into a new one.
> 
> Just sayin'.


Yeah, well I'm tired of playing the TiVo REDACTED programs don't exist game when Margaret herself is telling people to go sign up for said beta programs. If me talking about the fact that I was in a beta TEN YEARS ago loses me my chance of being in a new one then whatever.


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## Teeps (Aug 16, 2001)

I doff my hat to all beta testers.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

CrispyCritter said:


> I'm not sure what you think the "only 9 months old" means. A 9 month old disk is more likely to fail than a 2 year old disk according to some studies.
> 
> Here's one study


In 2005 I went for broke and built a media center pc with top performance parts. I spent $3100 which included a 150 GB WD Raptor hard drive that was over $300 at the time. The drive lasted 8 months so I replaced it with another one and that one failed in 6 months. I put in a Seagate and that one lasted 5 years.

I contacted Margret and it appears that the problem is a loss of power. I do have it connected to a UPS. I did test the battery and it passed but I haven't had any problems since the last restart. Go figure!


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

3 things I discovered in the last couple of days.

1. This is a caveat. The "Default Recording Options" apply to ARWL. In particular, if you have the default "Record" option set to "NEW only" as I do, your ARWL is probably not going to perform as you wish.

2. This may have been around for a while, but if an episode of a series gets recorded by an ARWL, it appears in the Wishlist group but *does not* appear in the series group. If you delete the recording and then recover it from "Recently Deleted", it then appears in the series group but *does not* re-appear in the ARWL group.

3. While testing movie programIds, I wanted to transfer something from my Roamio to my Premiere. Anything more that 2-weeks old was marked "Transfer prohibited by copyright owner.". Note that this only applies to Premiere to Roamio. The Roamio has no problem with any of the Premiere recordings nor does the THD or PC have any problem with any recordings on the Roamio.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

lpwcomp said:


> 3 things I discovered in the last couple of days.
> 
> 1. This is a caveat. The "Default Recording Options" apply to ARWL. In particular, if you have the default "Record" option set to "NEW only" as I do, your ARWL is probably not going to perform as you wish.
> 
> ...


Are you sure of points 2 and 3?

For 2, it used to be (and should be) the case that the show should appear in both the Wishlist group and the Series group. When restored, it may just appear in the Series group.

For 3, there shouldn't be any time related issues relating to copy protection, unless your franchise provider had things set up wrong for a while. There are movie channels like Encore that you may not realize may be protected locally.

Both of those would be new bugs that others have not reported, or indicate that you have problems in your Premiere's show database on disk.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

CrispyCritter said:


> Are you sure of points 2 and 3?
> 
> For 2, it used to be (and should be) the case that the show should appear in both the Wishlist group and the Series group. When restored, it may just appear in the Series group.
> 
> ...


Yes, I am certain about everything. And I know how things used to work and are supposed to work and that no one else has reported them, which is why _I_ did. And how can it be a problem with the Premiere's db when I only see a problem when browsing the Roamio's NPL _*from*_ the Premiere.

Have you actually tested it yourself?


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

lpwcomp said:


> Yes, I am certain about everything. And I know how things used to work and are supposed to work and that no one else has reported them, which is why _I_ did. And how can it be a problem with the Premiere's db when I only see a problem when browsing the Roamio's NPL _*from*_ the Premiere.
> 
> Have you actually tested it yourself?


I have no problems with point 3, and have tested it.
Point 2, I don't have any ARWL at the moment; I may be able to test later. I could easily believe that's a new bug that's crept in.

The fact nobody has reported them (especially point 3, which people do reasonably often), indicates there is something about your particular environment causing a problem, or something very strange is happening. There is no reason for copy permission to be time-dependent. Is it an unchanging 2 weeks - are movies transferable until the 2 week barrier is reached and then suddenly become non-transferable?

You're right, it would be a problem with the Roamio's database, not the Premiere's.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

CrispyCritter said:


> The fact nobody has reported them (especially point 3, which people do reasonably often), indicates there is something about your particular environment causing a problem, or something very strange is happening. There is no reason for copy permission to be time-dependent. Is it an unchanging 2 weeks - are movies transferable until the 2 week barrier is reached and then suddenly become non-transferable?


Don't know yet. I just saw it for the first time today. I don't directly use the Premiere very often. I'm only speculating about the 2-week thing since the most recent recording that exhibited the problem was recorded on 4/27. I won't have any more date for 3 or 4 days as I have nothing that was recorded on the Roamio on 4/28 or 4/29 and only 1 on 4/30. BTW, it's not just movies that manifest the issue. It's individual episodes of TV shows.



CrispyCritter said:


> You're right, it would be a problem with the Roamio's database, not the Premiere's.


If that were the case I would also have problems with transfers of those recordings to the THD and PC from the Roamio. I don't.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Even though this is the Premiere thread, and I'm all Roamio now, I wanted to back up lpwcomp and state that I'm just now noticing some bugs.

I've replicated his results on Roamios. Many bugs/issues are now cross-platform. The old way of partitioning/isolating Premieres and Roamios with seperate threads, seems to be less desirable than it used to be (like right after the Roamio's launch).

I've also found a few bugs when using one Roamio to schedule recordings, or create season passes on another. When they manifested, or with what software, is too difficult to nail-down. I just know what a mess it now is trying to clean up when there's a Season Pass for one purpose, and an ARWL for other purposes, for the same program. It's easier to delete everything, and pull what I want from RD, than to know what to delete, and what to keep in the SP and ARWL folders for the same program.

Why am I just noticing now? I hadn't done most of the things I just tried for months. I also just caught the ARWL issues with the one unit I have one ARWL set up on, which I had just left to do its thing, and hadn't done anything with for over six months.

ARWLs have always been a PITA (for me) to get right (or as right as one can make them). I ended up nuking the one I had, and re-created it. The behavior has definitely changed, and I'm liking ARWLs even less.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

I love ARWLs and use them for all the sports I watch. They work perfectly once tweaked to my satisfaction and I rarely have to change anything they want to record. The Boolean search phrase capability is one of the best and most underutilized features of a Tivo, IMO, usually because SPs work for most stuff.


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## dcstager (Feb 16, 2002)

I'm still getting spontaneous reboots with the MLB.TV app. Likewise, the program seems pretty unstable when it is working. Noticed when you back out by the left arrow, some of the text says MLB 2013 and some MLB 2014, so I'm really hoping this is on their radar because I attempt to use this feature a lot. When you consider how smoothly and perfectly the IOS MLB app and just watching MLB on their website works, it seems this problem must be fixable. Just nothing better than watching the game with a choice of home or away coverage and being able to pick the audio track too. I truly enjoy seeing the tv picture and the radio sound perfectly synchronized and watch the games that way. MLB is an awesome service for baseball fans. I wish the Tivo people would prioritize getting it working reliably.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

dcstager said:


> I'm still getting spontaneous reboots with the MLB.TV app. Likewise, the program seems pretty unstable when it is working. Noticed when you back out by the left arrow, some of the text says MLB 2013 and some MLB 2014, so I'm really hoping this is on their radar because I attempt to use this feature a lot...MLB is an awesome service for baseball fans. I wish the Tivo people would prioritize getting it working reliably.


sorry you're having troubles, i've seen your posts and i'm not trying to throw water on your issues, just wanted to give you feedback on my experience with the tivo mlb app.

mlb on my pxl has consistently been one of the most stable and responsive tivo apps, with very good hd picture quality. other premiere users in mlb threads share the same experience as mine (roamio users seem to be having more issues).

how far along are you in troubleshooting, and if you emailed margret, did you receive a response? i'm thinking this might be an isolated issue, or local network and hardware related.


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## ghuido (May 9, 2007)

miadlor said:


> Since upgrade to 2 Premieres, Exiting Netflix by TiVo button reboots both DVRs.


I am receiving the same behavior. I'll check the software version tonight to see if I have the patch. I had rock solid netflix behavior before patch. Have had 3 reboots since.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> Yes, I am certain about everything. And I know how things used to work and are supposed to work and that no one else has reported them, which is why _I_ did. And how can it be a problem with the Premiere's db when I only see a problem when browsing the Roamio's NPL _*from*_ the Premiere.
> 
> Have you actually tested it yourself?


Actually, I reported on #1 a while back. But it was in the thread that talked about this specific new feature (the new SP default settings thread), so unless one read that thread...

Thanks for reporting this, detailed feedback is always useful for many of us.:up:


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## ghuido (May 9, 2007)

ghuido said:


> I am receiving the same behavior. I'll check the software version tonight to see if I have the patch. I had rock solid netflix behavior before patch. Have had 3 reboots since.


confirmed version of Version 20.4.1-01-2-758


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

The problem with my upstairs TiVo rebooting is being caused by a weak battery in my Tripplite UPS. If I do the battery test with the TV off it will pass but if I try the test with the TV on it will fail depending on what is displaying on the screen at the time of the test.
Since these are plasma TVs it takes more power to drive a brighter screen especially with a lot of whites and that is when the battery test will fail. I performed the same test on my Downstairs TV, which is the same model as upstairs with the same TiVo and same UPS, and it battery test passes on the same content.
I did not keep accurate records when I replaced the batteries in each UPS but I am suspecting that the battery in the upstairs UPS is about three years old and the downstairs battery may be a little over a year old.
I will have the replacement battery on Tuesday some I will see if the reboot issue stops.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Jed1 said:


> If I do the battery test with the TV off it will pass but if I try the test with the TV on it will fail depending on what is displaying on the screen at the time of the test.


Why do you have your TV connected to a UPS?


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

lpwcomp said:


> Why do you have your TV connected to a UPS?


I am at the very end of a run of a electric grid that is 70 years old that feeds my neighborhood. I lost many power supplies over the years in my electronics, especially TVs. In 2007 I started using UPS's for all my electronics and haven't lost any power supplies since.
I have complained to my electric utility and even the PUC and nothing ever gets done about it as they used to blame my electric service, which they claimed was to old.
In 2007 I had a new 200 amp service installed and completely rewired my home with low and high voltage wiring and still lost the power supply in my RCA DLP. Ever since then I use these UPS's. Problem solved!


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

So you're using it as a power conditioner? Makes sense.

Yeah, 3 years is about the right time for new batteries in a UPS, especially one with that much load. What is the VA rating on the UPS?


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

lpwcomp said:


> So you're using it as a power conditioner? Makes sense.
> 
> Yeah, 3 years is about the right time for new batteries in a UPS, especially one with that much load. What is the VA rating on the UPS?


Correct. These saved me a lot of frustration since I started using them.

I have 4 Tripp Lite HT850UPS. The VA rating is 850. I bought these before I got my two G Kuros.
http://www.tripplite.com/sku/HT850UPS

I may upgrade to two of these units for my TVs.
http://www.tripplite.com/sku/OMNI1500LCDT/

I am going to put a piece of masking tape with the replacement date on the side of the UPS so I can keep track of how long they last. I pretty sure it is around three years. Like you said I do have a heavy load on them.
I can say with certainty that they are worth the money if you have questionable electric grid in your location especially from brown outs.


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## dcstager (Feb 16, 2002)

NorthAlabama said:


> how far along are you in troubleshooting, and if you emailed margret, did you receive a response? i'm thinking this might be an isolated issue, or local network and hardware related.


I have not emailed Margaret. But I finally called Tivo today to start official process. Told they have no reports of MLB.TV having/causing spontaneous reboots. They offered to swap my machine to fix the problem, but I didn't want to lose all my programs. Tivo suggested I contact MLB.TV because Tivo has no control over the app and MLB.TV programmers will have to fix my issue. I contacted MLB.TV and made initial report. We'll see what they do. I've had good experience MLB.TV and it's a great computer and Ipad app. I think the Tivo app should be the same level of reliability.


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## tmord1 (Jun 27, 2012)

changk said:


> Version 20.4.1-01-2-758
> 
> I'm seeing similar behavior here. I was watching a Playlist of videos sequentially. At the end of one video, maybe the 4th or 5th in the sequence, I'd get the LOADING text in the middle and it'd freeze. The first time this happened, the TiVo wouldn't respond to remote control presses; the yellow LED on the TiVo wouldn't light up either. After a few minutes, I gave up and had to power cycle to fix.
> 
> ...


I am having the same problem on my premier xl4, it happens nightly now, same situation, after 4-5 videos are watched on a playlist in youtube, it freezes at loading. I have never had it respond to the remote, always have to unplug it. I had to unplug and replug the device in twice last night. Has your problem been resolved? If so, can you explain how it was? If anyone else has ideas, I'd appreciate it. I tried Tivo chat support and they say they have never heard of this problem....Thanks.
my software shows 20.4.1-01-2-758


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## changk (Feb 20, 2002)

tmord1 said:


> I am having the same problem on my premier xl4, it happens nightly now, same situation, after 4-5 videos are watched on a playlist in youtube, it freezes at loading. I have never had it respond to the remote, always have to unplug it. I had to unplug and replug the device in twice last night. Has your problem been resolved? If so, can you explain how it was? If anyone else has ideas, I'd appreciate it. I tried Tivo chat support and they say they have never heard of this problem....Thanks.
> my software shows 20.4.1-01-2-758


I honestly haven't tried it since I made that post. I'll try it again tonight or over the weekend and see if the behavior persists; I fear it will.

FYI, in my testing I found that once the box becomes unresponsive, it will reboot on its own somewhere between 15 and 30 minutes after locking up. If I don't mind waiting that long, that means I don't have to go digging around the back of my entertainment center to cycle the power.


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## changk (Feb 20, 2002)

tmord1 said:


> I am having the same problem on my premier xl4, it happens nightly now, same situation, after 4-5 videos are watched on a playlist in youtube, it freezes at loading. I have never had it respond to the remote, always have to unplug it. I had to unplug and replug the device in twice last night. Has your problem been resolved? If so, can you explain how it was? If anyone else has ideas, I'd appreciate it. I tried Tivo chat support and they say they have never heard of this problem....Thanks.
> my software shows 20.4.1-01-2-758


I'm still encountering the problem. Tonight I got through 9 YouTube videos from a single playlist, including an ad between the 8th and 9th video. When the 9th ended and it tried to start the 10th, I got as far as the LOADING text when the box froze. The TiVo rebooted itself 5-7 minutes later.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

If anybody is still listening, they REALLY need to fix this FF1 problem. Ever since about the update before this one, when I use FF1 (hit FF once, as opposed to two or three times) it doesn't work right. I use this frequently and it seems weird that they would make it not work right. Do they not want there to be a first gear fast forward?

I don't think it's my machine either, because both of my Tivos started doing it at the same time.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

sharkster said:


> If anybody is still listening, they REALLY need to fix this FF1 problem. Ever since about the update before this one, when I use FF1 (hit FF once, as opposed to two or three times) it doesn't work right. I use this frequently and it seems weird that they would make it not work right. Do they not want there to be a first gear fast forward?
> 
> I don't think it's my machine either, because both of my Tivos started doing it at the same time.


In what way does it "not work right"?


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## MHunter1 (Oct 11, 2007)

sharkster said:


> they REALLY need to fix this FF1 problem


It's been a longstanding problem where pressing fast-forward once causes the playback to sometimes intermittently switch between muted real-time and 2x. It's an old glitch that's been annoying for years and why I never even bother using one-arrow FF.

A more useful feature would be 2x playback with pitch-corrected audio like most media players have had for years, such as Apple's QuickTime and Sony DVD/BR players. It's a feature people don't know they want until it's offered, then they cant live without. Even my 1991 Mitsubishi HS-U440 VCR had 2x playback with audio.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

MHunter1 said:


> It's been a longstanding problem where pressing fast-forward once causes the playback to sometimes intermittently switch between muted real-time and 2x. It's an old glitch that's been annoying for years and why I never even bother using one-arrow FF.
> 
> A more useful feature would be 2x playback with pitch-corrected audio like most media players have had for years, such as Apple's QuickTime and Sony DVD/BR players. It's a feature people don't know they want until it's offered, then they cant live without. Even my 1991 Mitsubishi HS-U440 VCR had 2x playback with audio.


And how many of those do it from a digital, HD source?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> In what way does it "not work right"?


Yeah...my question exactly. Works fine for me....


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## porges (Feb 28, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> Yeah...my question exactly. Works fine for me....


If it's the same as my incarnation of the bug, it depends on the source (and thus presumably on the encoding). For instance, NBC's Sunday Night Football shows the problem 100% of the time.


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## rcanoza (Feb 2, 2014)

lpwcomp said:


> And how many of those do it from a digital, HD source?


It was fairly common in the VCR era, not just on pro editing decks. There's no additional expense to the feature, aside from employing engineers/programmers who know what they're doing. In the case of PC software even VLC can play back a 1080i MPEG2 program stream at 4x with sped-up audio; whether or not that counts as "pitch-corrected" the speech is easily intelligible


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

rcanoza said:


> It was fairly common in the VCR era, not just on pro editing decks. There's no additional expense to the feature, aside from employing engineers/programmers who know what they're doing. In the case of PC software even VLC can play back a 1080i MPEG2 program stream at 4x with sped-up audio; whether or not that counts as "pitch-corrected" the speech is easily intelligible


VCRs are not digital. How compressed is the stream that VLC is playing back and how much CPU is involved? You simply cannot reasonably compare the capabilities of a GP computer to a TiVo. The TiVos processor already has a hard time keeping up and you want to add _*more*_ to it's duties? This particular issue has little or nothing to do with "engineers/programmers who know what they're doing".


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

lpwcomp said:


> VCRs are not digital. How compressed is the stream that VLC is playing back and how much CPU is involved? You simply cannot reasonably compare the capabilities of a GP computer to a TiVo. The TiVos processor already has a hard time keeping up and you want to add _*more*_ to it's duties? This particular issue has little or nothing to do with "engineers/programmers who know what they're doing".


Maybe. But that particular issue might very well have something to do with a need for hardware designers who can see further into the future than next month. There's no law that says TiVos _have_ to use anemic processors. They should probably have better processors and more memory at the very least.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

L David Matheny said:


> Maybe. But that particular issue might very well have something to do with a need for hardware designers who can see further into the future than next month. There's no law that says TiVos _have_ to use anemic processors. They should probably have better processors and more memory at the very least.


I guess you don't care how much the h/w costs as long as it does what _*you*_ want.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

lpwcomp said:


> I guess you don't care how much the h/w costs as long as it does what _*you*_ want.


Within reason, yes. I'd gladly pay an extra $100 or so for twice the processor speed and twice the memory. Puny hardware is a poor bargain.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

L David Matheny said:


> Within reason, yes. I'd gladly pay an extra $100 or so for twice the processor speed and twice the memory. Puny hardware is a poor bargain.


So don't buy it.


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## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

TiVoMargret said:


> We will begin updating TiVo Roamio, TiVo Premiere, and TiVo Mini boxes with 20.4.1 "Spring Update" later today.
> 
> Here are some of the changes:
> - addressed issues where customers were seeing V112 errors when trying to stream between boxes
> ...


This has to be one of the worst updates ever. While it provides some much needed features it also has broken the enjoyment of TV watching. I get a v53 error at least once a month and it is pissing me off. The only solution is a complete reboot of the device to ensure the channels are back

Common Margret TiVo is better then this! Lets get this fixed asap


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## rcanoza (Feb 2, 2014)

lpwcomp said:


> VCRs are not digital. How compressed is the stream that VLC is playing back and how much CPU is involved? You simply cannot reasonably compare the capabilities of a GP computer to a TiVo. The TiVos processor already has a hard time keeping up and you want to add _*more*_ to it's duties? This particular issue has little or nothing to do with "engineers/programmers who know what they're doing".


1. Uh, I think you meant that analog videotapes aren't digital. Except if it's ancient a home VCR is a digital appliance.
2. The sped-up playback feature is easy and common. If the legacy Tivos don't have enough memory or the MIPS chip is too slow to buffer the stream, that's another issue, and reasonable to assume it will never change, at least not when dealing with the high MPEG-2 bitrate.
3. If the Roamio doesn't have enough horsepower to ever do it then that's really pathetic. So your insinuation about Tivo scraping the ceiling of technological innovation is a bit ripe.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

rcanoza said:


> 1. Uh, I think you meant that analog videotapes aren't digital. Except if it's ancient a home VCR is a digital appliance.


Wrong. Very few VCRs were ever digital. Where on earth are you getting your information? Who the heck these days has anything *but* an "ancient" VCR?



rcanoza said:


> 2. The sped-up playback feature is easy and common. If the legacy Tivos don't have enough memory or the MIPS chip is too slow to buffer the stream, that's another issue, and reasonable to assume it will never change, at least not when dealing with the high MPEG-2 bitrate.


I assume you base this on your vast experience as a video engineer/programmer.



rcanoza said:


> 3. If the Roamio doesn't have enough horsepower to ever do it then that's really pathetic. So your insinuation about Tivo scraping the ceiling of technological innovation is a bit ripe.


Your problem is not what you don't know, it's what you "know" that just ain't so.


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## muzzymate (Sep 2, 2004)

It's not the unified My Shows list that aggregates all your recorded programs across all your TiVo DVRs, like I've been asking for years, but this is a good start.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

^^^
That is interesting TiVo posted the video before updating the Priority Update list.
www.tivo.com/priority/


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

muzzymate said:


> It's not the unified My Shows list that aggregates all your recorded programs across all your TiVo DVRs, like I've been asking for years, but this is a good start.


Initial reaction - meh.

Edit: Also don't see how it is in the least related to a consolidated "My Shows". It just adds additional groups.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

any added feature that doesn't slow down the hdui or break something else (create a new bug) is great news...


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

muzzymate said:


> It's not the unified My Shows list that aggregates all your recorded programs across all your TiVo DVRs, like I've been asking for years, but this is a good start.


Now that's HUGE in my book. I had already signed up on the new priority update list even before learning about this added feature, but now I'm stoked to get my FW updated.

For several (TiVo) generations now, I've been pleading for user-designated folders in the My Shows listing in order to better discern at a glance what I have stored, especially now that the HDD's are 2 or 3TB. This ain't that, but it's a meaningful step in the right direction.



lpwcomp said:


> Initial reaction - meh.


Really? And I thought *I* was a curmudgeon.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

chiguy50 said:


> Now that's HUGE in my book. I had already signed up on the new priority update list even before learning about this added feature, but now I'm stoked to get my FW updated.
> 
> For several (TiVo) generations now, I've been pleading for user-designated folders in the My Shows listing in order to better discern at a glance what I have stored, especially now that the HDD's are 2 or 3TB. This ain't that, but it's a meaningful step in the right direction.
> 
> Really? And I thought *I* was a curmudgeon.


I just fail to see how adding groups based on category is that big of a deal. I suppose it could be somewhat useful to someone who has the TiVo recording suggestions, but that is the second thing I disable when setting up a new TiVo. Or if you can create your own categories, but I see no evidence of that capability even being in the works.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

lpwcomp said:


> I just fail to see how adding groups based on category is that big of a deal.


I may or may not find this new feature useful, but at least I'm encouraged to see that TiVo's programmers have been busy doing something more than just fixing bugs (although that should still be their top priority).


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

L David Matheny said:


> I may or may not find this new feature useful, but at least I'm encouraged to see that TiVo's programmers have been busy doing something more than just fixing bugs (although that should still be their top priority).


That's different, but even so I'm not sure how encouraged I would be by the implementation of what _*should*_ be a fairly trivial mod.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

Finally, I've been wanting something like this since our Series 1 TiVo!


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

L David Matheny said:


> Within reason, yes. I'd gladly pay an extra $100 or so for twice the processor speed and twice the memory. Puny hardware is a poor bargain.


You may pay the extra $100 but TiVo knows its own demand curve and tries to make the best trade off (price/hardware) to make them the most money.
I know a lot of people that use TiVo, and all they care about is time shifting, the Mini, and MRS. Some use Netflix, but most smart TVs and DVD players already have Netflix built in.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Can someone explain to me why some people are so excited by the implementation of Category groups? I could understand if it meant that you could create your own categories and assign recordings to them but there is absolutely no indication that this is the case.


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## sar840t2 (Mar 1, 2003)

Does this feature allow you to create groups with a name you specify, or (as I think I'm inferring from the name) does it simply create groups based on the pre-determined category of show?

I can't get to YouTube from work, so I can't watch the description of this feature (whatever happened to good old fashioned words?).

Mike


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

sar840t2 said:


> Does this feature allow you to create groups with a name you specify, or (as I think I'm inferring from the name) does it simply create groups based on the pre-determined category of show?


Having watched the YouTube video, it isn't even what _*I*_ inferred it was. Silly me, I thought "Categories" referred to what you see on the "Info" display for a recording under "Categories" and that all they had done was implement grouping based on that.

What they have actually done is divide "My Shows" into the following display sections:

All
Kids
TV Series
Sports
Movies
Suggestions
Going Away Soon
Video Providers
Devices
Partially Watched

In terms of tailorability, you can change the order, choose to not display a category or disable the feature entirely.

Even more of a "meh" for me, although it did involve substantially more work than if they had done what I originally thought. Just one more thing for me to disable.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

lpwcomp said:


> In terms of tailorability, you can change the order, choose to not display a category or disable the feature entirely.
> 
> Even more of a "meh" for me, although it did involve substantially more work than if they had done what I originally thought. Just one more thing for me to disable.


...and there was much rejoicing... <muffled yay>

That TiVo has blessed us with the ability to completely turn off something that some may not like, and/or would rather have what some are used to, and/or some just find the new function of no use and/or annoying, is a big deal for me.

It either shows they are learning that not everybody will automatically like and/or want what they add/change, or somebody involved with it just decided it was a good idea to give us a choice. I'd go with the latter, without knowing any inside information. Perhaps a third possibility is that some beta-testers helped convince them to make it optional (not saying this is likely).

I can only hope that giving us the ability to set up our TiVos in the way we see fit, is something that will continue. Hypothetically, if TiVo Suggestions had just recently been added, I can't help but wonder if we'd be allowed to turn that feature off.

Of course, some of the most irritating changes TiVo makes are they ones that involve advertising/promotions. Anybody who thinks TiVo will ever allow us to turn those things off, no matter how many people despise them, and complain non-stop, are in need of a reality check. If those things bother them that much, they can complain with their wallet (by not buying more TiVos), and/or with their feet (by walking away and selling their TiVos).

The one beauty of the lifetime service option (*for TiVo*) is that those who buy it and complain by walking away and selling their TiVos (or throwing them into a closet), don't reduce the subscriber number for TiVo's reporting of the number of subs. Perhaps this is why a plan that TiVo tends to lose money on from the subs themselves, still exists (but is not guaranteed to, in the future, for new subs).


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

I'll probably set my Pro to:

All
Devices
Going Away Soon
Partially Watched

GAS and PW look fairly useful.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Hopefully pyTivo shares will show under Devices


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## PedjaR (Jan 4, 2010)

I look forward to Partially Watched. Every so often I start watching something, then switch to something else (mostly to watch with other people); switching back currently is no easier than finding the show in My Shows the first time. That is one of _very few_ things cable company DVR did better.


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## DJQuad (Dec 22, 2004)

changk said:


> Version 20.4.1-01-2-758
> 
> I'm seeing similar behavior here. I was watching a Playlist of videos sequentially. At the end of one video, maybe the 4th or 5th in the sequence, I'd get the LOADING text in the middle and it'd freeze. The first time this happened, the TiVo wouldn't respond to remote control presses; the yellow LED on the TiVo wouldn't light up either. After a few minutes, I gave up and had to power cycle to fix.
> 
> ...


This is happening to me too. I haven't gotten the Summer Update yet.


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## changk (Feb 20, 2002)

DJQuad said:


> This is happening to me too. I haven't gotten the Summer Update yet.


I have the Summer Update (20.4.2) and had a chance to test this last night. So far so good. I watched about 20 videos from a playlist, and the unit didn't freeze up. Hopefully it'll work for you too once you get the update.


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## DJQuad (Dec 22, 2004)

changk said:


> I have the Summer Update (20.4.2) and had a chance to test this last night. So far so good. I watched about 20 videos from a playlist, and the unit didn't freeze up. Hopefully it'll work for you too once you get the update.


Still waiting on the update, and I even did the priority thing.

Were there any updates to the actual YouTube app? It's pathetic. You can't view specific channels, play their playlists, change between "Your Subscriptions" and the subscriber videos, and so on.

http://youtubeplaylist.net has helped a lot, but I can't believe TiVo has accepted this POS app on their platform in it's current state.


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## changk (Feb 20, 2002)

DJQuad said:


> Still waiting on the update, and I even did the priority thing.
> 
> Were there any updates to the actual YouTube app? It's pathetic. You can't view specific channels, play their playlists, change between "Your Subscriptions" and the subscriber videos, and so on.
> 
> http://youtubeplaylist.net has helped a lot, but I can't believe TiVo has accepted this POS app on their platform in it's current state.


I don't see any versioning info on the YouTube app. It looks unchanged to me, at least in terms of elements in the UI. But at least it's stable again with the summer update.


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## DJQuad (Dec 22, 2004)

changk said:


> I don't see any versioning info on the YouTube app. It looks unchanged to me, at least in terms of elements in the UI. But at least it's stable again with the summer update.


I finally got the update. It doesn't look like the YouTube app was updated at all. It's still as borked as ever.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

DJQuad said:


> I finally got the update. It doesn't look like the YouTube app was updated at all. It's still as borked as ever.


i don't think there were any planned updates for the youtube app with this release, the premiere update thread is here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=518812​and release notes here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10171579#post10171579​


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## DJQuad (Dec 22, 2004)

Yeah the apps like YouTube, Netflix, Hulu, etc are typically done whenever the app developers release an updated version, although sometimes they're updated when major TiVo updates are done.


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