# Tivo series comparison chart?



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

I am looking for a one-page comparison chart of all the tivo series units (you know, sort of like this):


```
Series 1   Series 2    Series 3   etc.
Feature 1         x
Feature 2                      x             x
Feature 3         x            x             x
```
Is there such a beast out there?


----------



## Alfred Lanning (Dec 1, 2005)

jenhudson said:


> I am looking for a one-page comparison chart of all the tivo series units (you know, sort of like this):
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


I don't believe there is, but with some reading it shouldn't be hard to put together.


----------



## HogarthNH (Dec 28, 2001)

There's no such beast.

Considering the Series 3 is subject to change without warning or reason and the Series 1 no longer manufactured, I would assume value to be very low except to extreme hobbyists or students.


----------



## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Make one.

In a nutshell:
S1s:
54 Mhz PPC CPU - Dual drive bay (requires bracket) - Uses network card that plugs onto main board. Simpler hacking. 80MM fan. Built in IR blaster. Sony encoder, IBM decoder. Hard interconnects.

S2s:
General
~233 Mhz NEC MIPS CPU
Broadcom video encoder/decoder.
USB networking. Increased kernel security.
60mm fan
Improved Peanut remote.
Parlex ribbon interconnects (power and front panel)

S2 1xx:
USB 1.1
Cross-flow under cooling.
Dual drive fan/bracket. (no mechanical hardware required for second drive)
130 has DirecTV DVR style buttons.
SVR3000 might be different.

S2 2xx
NEC USB 2.0
Single drive mounting. Second drive requires mointing bracket.
Backflow cooling

S2 5xx
Integrated Broadcom MIPS CPU, Video decoder, USB2.0.

DVD-R models.
Add Component, another line in, and a second IDE bus. 

S3 6xx
Unknown internals
No Composite/S-video in.
Dual tuner chains, each with Analog NTSC, ATSC, and Cablecard.
Built in ethernet.


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Okay, that's all greek to me, so I will pass it on to hubby. But I was actually thinking more along the lines of program features.

I have an old Series 1 and know there are tons more features with the newer models, but I am a visual learner and would prefer to see everything compared on one page, as opposed to reading it all and trying to come up with something myself.


----------



## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

Jen-

Could you tell us what features exactly you're interested in comparing?

That might help some of the more saavy of us to put something together....I am not of their number.


----------



## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

Series1 units run no later than software version 3. They have no ability to use networking features.

Series2 units run version 7.2.1 currently. All Series2 units have the ability to use networking features. The main differences between version 3 and 7.2.1 are:
* Folders
* Overlap protection
* Home Media features (Digital Music, Digital Photos, Multi-Room Viewing, TiVo Central Online)
* TiVo To Go
* Online Applications
* Content download

Series3 units have not been officially announced.


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Series1 units run no later than software version 3. They have no ability to use networking features.
> 
> Series2 units run version 7.2.1 currently. All Series2 units have the ability to use networking features. The main differences between version 3 and 7.2.1 are:
> * Folders
> ...


Thanks, this really helps. It helps to see what the main differences are. I do like folders and while the other stuff would be nice, it isn't critical (considering we'd have to buy the unit plus a lifetime sub).

Is there *any* possible way (i.e. I'm sure there is, but easy and fairly cheap) to network a Series 1 with anything?

While we have no problems with our Series 1, I just have this feeling that we're REALLY missing out by not having a newer version. But it's hard to add one when we REALLY don't NEED it.


----------



## DocNo (Oct 10, 2001)

jenhudson said:


> Is there *any* possible way (i.e. I'm sure there is, but easy and fairly cheap) to network a Series 1 with anything?


Turbonet or cachecard

I would get the cachecard - a friend has one and it can make a pretty dramatic speed difference if you have an upgraded Tivo. I've thought about trading up myself...


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

DocNo said:


> Turbonet or cachecard
> 
> I would get the cachecard - a friend has one and it can make a pretty dramatic speed difference if you have an upgraded Tivo. I've thought about trading up myself...


Okay, pretend I'm three years old when you explain things...  Would this cachecard let us network our Series 1 to a Series 2? So we could watch stuff taped on the Series 1 on the Series 2?


----------



## montyvo (Jan 8, 2002)

No disrespect, but hacking a series 1 to do comparable stuff to TivoToGo, etc, although possible, is way beyond your experience and comfort level. A 3 year old could not do it.  And the series 1 could be made functionally similar to, but not compatible with the series 2, i.e. no mutli-room viewing between the series 1 and 2. 

I had 2 Series 1 all hacked up and networked, and ended up giving them to my college kids, and getting myself a couple of 80Hr Series 2 (240's) off of ebay for ~$100 each (no life time sub). 

My advise for you would be to get a series 2. I would just pay monthly, but I'm going to upgrade to the unannounced-might-never-appear series 3. You could buy a life time sub, or buy a series 2 with one on ebay.

]Monty[


----------



## NoCleverUsername (Jan 29, 2005)

jenhudson said:


> Okay, pretend I'm three years old when you explain things...  Would this cachecard let us network our Series 1 to a Series 2? So we could watch stuff taped on the Series 1 on the Series 2?


No. Adding a network connection to a series 1 mainly just gives it the ability to make daily calls via your broadband connection instead of using a phone line. It won't magically give you the version 7.2.1 features.

Even if you were to hack the unit to add functionality, it still won't talk to a series 2 box for doing transfers.

Edit: Crap. Monty posted while I was typing.


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

montyvo said:


> No disrespect, but hacking a series 1 to do comparable stuff to TivoToGo, etc, although possible, is way beyond your experience and comfort level. A 3 year old could not do it.  I had 2 Series 1 all hacked up and networked, and ended up giving them to my college kids, and getting myself a couple of 80Hr Series 2 (240's) off of ebay for ~$100 each (no life time sub).
> 
> My advise for you would be to look on ebay and get a series 2. I would just pay monthly, but I'm going to upgrade to the unannounced-might-never-appear series 3. You could buy a life time sub, or buy a series 2 with one.
> 
> ]Monty[


No disrespect taken. Hubby can do all that stuff--he's hacked our Series 1 so far (bigger hard drives, ethernet connection) so he could do that type of stuff.

I'm not trying to make our Series 1 _into_ a Series 2...I just think that if we do end up getting a Series 2 as well, it would be nice to connect it to the Series 1.


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

NoCleverUsername said:


> No. Adding a network connection to a series 1 mainly just gives it the ability to make daily calls via your broadband connection instead of using a phone line. It won't magically give you the version 7.2.1 features.
> 
> Even if you were to hack the unit to add functionality, it still won't talk to a series 2 box for doing transfers.


Okay, we already have that network connection... I know it won't give us 7.2.1 features. 

Oh well. Thanks so much for all the input!


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

the turbonet is a network card added in to series 1, it plugs in inside the unit to provide a network port.

edit - just read your post - no amount of hacking on a series 1 will allow it to connect to a series 2 for MRV. I do not think there is even a way to hook up two series 1 to do MRV. Now you can use a PC as an in between step and the hack on a series 1 and the TiVoToComeBack on a sereis 2 to copy shows between the two units but that has the added time of those extra steps and would not be very spontaneous at all.

the cachecard is a card with some extra memory to give the Series 1 more room to keep more things in memory and thus do those things faster (when managing season passes or displaying guide data for instance)

they are both great mature add ons to the series 1, but as montyvo said - you will end up having to take the hard drive out of your TiVo and mount it in a PC and do things to it with LINUX commands typed in. This is all very mature as well adn guides can be found to detail instructions but it is not for the faint of heart adn will require translating a lot of geek greek  Plus you will end up spending about the same kind of maoney as getting a 40 hour TiVo and just using it.

I would also suggest you get a TiVo either from www.tivo.com where they have a deal of only paying 50$ if you also buy a year subscription card for 155.40. The nice thing is that since this is your second or more TiVo, only 6.95 a month will come off the card and it will last about 22 months without paying anything more.
or the other way is to get one off Ebay and just sub it.

Someone, sorry I forget who now in that way too long thread, was at the TiVo area at CES adn got a very unofficial comment that the series 3 will start at between $500 to $800 dollars. Also the word is mid to late 2006 for the unit to hit store shelves. If you are like me and that means you are not likely to buy a sereis 3 until sometime in 2007. That makes getting a series 2 now at 50$ and monthly subbing it a pretty sensible approach I think.


----------



## montyvo (Jan 8, 2002)

Actually, ZeoTivo, you can move shows from one hacked series 1 tivo to another hacked series 1, but (at least back when I was into this, it may have changed now) you don't have the nice Tivo UI integration of MRV. And believe me the hacks for getting shows off and putting them on a DVD blow away the official TivoDesktop/Sonic way in speed and quality. A series 2 with TTG/MRV will never come close to the speeds possible with a hacked series1 and a cachecard. The hacked Series1 is a pretty mature beast.

]Monty[


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

montyvo said:


> Actually, ZeoTivo, you can move shows from one hacked series 1 tivo to another hacked series 1, but (at least back when I was into this, it may have changed now) you don't have the nice Tivo UI integration of MRV. And believe me the hacks for getting shows off and putting them on a DVD blow away the official TivoDesktop/Sonic way in speed and quality. A series 2 with TTG/MRV will never come close to the speeds possible with a hacked series1 and a cachecard. The hacked Series1 is a pretty mature beast.
> 
> ]Monty[


did not know about directly between two series 1, is that just a straight FTP between them using the web tool or something?

I knew that with hacks basically the show is unencrypted and thus it is a straight FTP off the TiVo to a PC and then tools to make the file useable and edit it and so forth with the full power of a PC CPU. That is going to be much quicker and far more flexible which is why TiVo would have been sued immediately by copyright holders if they had started out that way with TiVoToGo.

I wondered out loud on the forum if the new desktop with conversion to iPod and PSP was going to give up the muxing of the show on the TiVo box and just pull the file straight off. TiVo talked of watermarking the shows I assume to give the copyright holders the comfort of tracking down where the show in the wild came from. So they could also perhaps skip the whole .tivo file thing and just give you a straight mpeg2 file that could then use similar tools on the PC and make TTG a whole lot faster and easier. But who knows?

I made the suggestion to JenHudson to go series 2 based on her not wanting to hack the series 1. since they have the network card and the hacks are free - I personally would go down the hack route and wait for the series 3 to come out, but I already own only series 2


----------



## Justin Thyme (Mar 29, 2005)

Folks have been leaving out OCAP Tivo (aka "Comcast Tivo").[edit- the comcast tivo is written as motorolla native software. It does not run on top of OCAP.]

The historical version numbers suggest improvement. This was true between version 1 and 2. But between 2 and 3, we are seeing differentiation. That is why when you construct your chart, you won't have a progressive improvement slope where S3 is a superset of S2. They will be intersecting.

To be sure S3 has hugely more capability, but cability that is irrelevant for the analog market.

It would be like Apple used version numbers for a mac mini versus a G5. They each are "better" for different things.

The S3 is not the successor of the S2. There could be a better S2, eg dual analog cable tuners, higher net performance, HD analog component input recording.

My two cents.


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Well, we're now looking at getting the base unit for $50... but to me, I don't see much difference in getting that ($50 + $155 prepaid year + eventual $300 or more lifetime by the time we need it--$500+ total) vs. the regular price unit for $200 and adding the $300 lifetime ($500 total). It's just a difference of upfront money vs. money in the future. Is there some difference I'm not factoring in?

We've had the Series 1 for five years, so I can't imagine getting rid of the Series 2 for anything newer in the near future.


----------



## kjmcdonald (Sep 8, 2003)

jenhudson said:


> Well, we're now looking at getting the base unit for $50... but to me, I don't see much difference in getting that ($50 + $155 prepaid year + eventual $300 or more lifetime by the time we need it--$500+ total) vs. the regular price unit for $200 and adding the $300 lifetime ($500 total). It's just a difference of upfront money vs. money in the future. Is there some difference I'm not factoring in?
> 
> Well if you end up craving a series 3 in about a year or so, then you just wouldn't buy the lifetime sub. at all.
> 
> ...


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

kjmcdonald said:


> Well if you end up craving a series 3 in about a year or so, then you just wouldn't buy the lifetime sub. at all.
> 
> Actually, at 12.95/mo for the first Tivo the life sub pays off in 23 months. But at only $6.95 for the second Tivo you'd have to hold on to it for almost 4 years for it to break even.
> 
> ...


I just figured since we had the Series 1 for 4-5 years, it would be no big deal having the Series 2 for that long as well... But I see where you're coming from.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jenhudson said:


> Well, we're now looking at getting the base unit for $50... but to me, I don't see much difference in getting that ($50 + $155 prepaid year + eventual $300 or more lifetime by the time we need it--$500+ total) vs. the regular price unit for $200 and adding the $300 lifetime ($500 total). It's just a difference of upfront money vs. money in the future. Is there some difference I'm not factoring in?
> 
> We've had the Series 1 for five years, so I can't imagine getting rid of the Series 2 for anything newer in the near future.


if you order the base unit for 50$ and get the year subscription for 155$ - then *within 30 days of activation* you can decide to go with lifetime and apply the $155 to that. This was posted in coffeehouse by TiVoOpsMgr a couple of places. I would do it at activation if you decide to go that way so there is less hassle. and be careful of how you activate in that case - the how to has been reporetd as kind of vauge on the web page

if you stay with just monthly and it is your second TiVo then they should only take 6.95 off each month and the 155 will last 22 months.


----------



## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

jenhudson said:


> No disrespect taken. Hubby can do all that stuff--he's hacked our Series 1 so far (bigger hard drives, ethernet connection) so he could do that type of stuff.
> 
> I'm not trying to make our Series 1 _into_ a Series 2...I just think that if we do end up getting a Series 2 as well, it would be nice to connect it to the Series 1.


Doing that would amount into making it into an S2.


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Just to clarify on the one year contract requirements:

I have one unit with lifetime on it, and another I've never subbed. I'm considering subbing it. Isn't it true I don't need any upfront money, that I just need to pay $6.95 a month, with the understanding that if I cancel within a year I have to pay a $150 penalty? But as long as I keep paying the $6.95, that's all the $ I need to pay?


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Okay, we just bought the $50 Series 2 box.  The best part was ebates has a 4% rebate for them! WOOHOO!


----------



## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Series3 units have not been officially announced.


So, announce it already! I'm getting tired of waiting.


----------



## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

Justin Thyme said:


> Folks have been leaving out OCAP Tivo (aka "Comcast Tivo").
> 
> To be sure S3 has hugely more capability, but cability that is irrelevant for the analog market.


1. I wouldn't called it the OCAP TiVo - it isn't. I asked about it at CES and the port is to the hardware. The TiVo software replaces the Motorola software, it isn't an OCAP application.

2. I don't know that I'd say irrelavant - remember it supports analog cable and NTSC and you could use it for that without digital cable or ATSC.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

timckelley said:


> Just to clarify on the one year contract requirements:
> 
> I have one unit with lifetime on it, and another I've never subbed. I'm considering subbing it. Isn't it true I don't need any upfront money, that I just need to pay $6.95 a month, with the understanding that if I cancel within a year I have to pay a $150 penalty? But as long as I keep paying the $6.95, that's all the $ I need to pay?


for a unit you already have that is not subbed your thinking is correct


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jenhudson said:


> Okay, we just bought the $50 Series 2 box.  The best part was ebates has a 4% rebate for them! WOOHOO!


did you get it at tivo.com or at a store with a mail in rebate ?

come on we wnat to live your whole series 2 experience since you are already familair with TiVo, just not with the series 2


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

ZeoTiVo said:


> did you get it at tivo.com or at a store with a mail in rebate ?
> 
> come on we wnat to live your whole series 2 experience since you are already familair with TiVo, just not with the series 2


I got it at tivo.com. :up: We debated getting the refub unit for $30 but said "Aw, heck, why not go new for $20 more?" Although since the minute we get it, we're putting in a 300GB hard drive, I guess it doesn't really matter if it's "new" or not.


----------



## kjmcdonald (Sep 8, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> for a unit you already have that is not subbed your thinking is correct


Actually, If you have the unit without paying for the first year up front to get the instant rebate, then I don't think you have to lock in for a year do you? Did tivo start working like the cell phone companies? I mean the $150 mail-in rebate is still available if you don't want to buy the year in advance right? does that have a 1 year signup?

At least when I got my second S2, and signed it up I picked the 6.95/mo option, and I didn't have to sign up for a year, I didn't get any early termination clause that I know of. The whole reason I went monthly on the second one was it takes almost 4 years to break even on the second Tivo, and I know I'm going to ditch at least one S2 when I get an S3 for my HDTV.


----------



## mmilton80 (Jul 28, 2005)

The possibilities of features in Series 3 makes me want to dance.


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Update: The Series 2 has arrived and is plugged in and working. The old Series 1 will be moved to the bedroom tonight. The 300GB upgrade drive has also arrived and will hopefully be installed tonight.

I like many of the new features (folders especially) but hate hate HATE the peanut remote. Whoever designed that was on crack...no List button? Please.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jenhudson said:


> I like many of the new features (folders especially) but hate hate HATE the peanut remote. Whoever designed that was on crack...no List button? Please.


biggest complaint in moving from series 1 remote to series 2. Most likely reason for not having a list button - make you see the main menu and whatever gold stars or other promos are there.

the habit you will acquire is hitting the TiVo guy button once, waiting for the sound and then hitting TiVo guy button again to get to now playing List.


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

I've programmed a macro in my universal remote (OFA8820) to turn on the TV and go straight to the Now Playing menu.


----------



## NoCleverUsername (Jan 29, 2005)

ZeoTiVo said:


> biggest complaint in moving from series 1 remote to series 2.


But that's not a series 1 to series 2 issue. That's a switching from a Sony remote to any peanut remote issue. (The one exception that I know of is the HDVR2 peanut remotes do have a list button.)


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

NoCleverUsername said:


> But that's not a series 1 to series 2 issue. That's a switching from a Sony remote to any peanut remote issue. (The one exception that I know of is the HDVR2 peanut remotes do have a list button.)


Oh. Thanks for the clarification


----------

