# Is my signal too low on FiOS?



## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

I have two Premiers hooked up to FiOS, and I am currently showing a signal strength of 62 to 70 depending on the channel, and where I check it from - on both boxes hooked up to . If I use the Signal Strength Menu, I get 66 on most channels. Anyway... I have FiOS, and I always remember the signal being in the 90s for most channels, and now I'm wondering what happened to lower the signal.

If you have a Premiere, or Premiere XL please check the signal strength, on a bunch of channels, both high an low frequencies, and report back what numbers you are seeing? Please indicate what box you have, and if you have 2 or 4 tuners. 

I'm wondering if maybe my ONT is on its way out. I've had it for a while. I'm looking forward to any information you may be able to provide. Thanks!


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## NotNowChief (Mar 29, 2012)

Have you added or changed any splitters or in-line couplers?

It could be something as simple as a splitter that went bad, not so much that the ONT is failing.

However, if the picture is fine, I wouldn't even sweat it. If the signal comes in too hot, that's not good either.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

NotNowChief said:


> Have you added or changed any splitters or in-line couplers?
> 
> It could be something as simple as a splitter that went bad, not so much that the ONT is failing.
> 
> However, if the picture is fine, I wouldn't even sweat it. If the signal comes in too hot, that's not good either.


I haven't changed anything. I will have to run a cable directly from the ONT to the TiVo, and eliminate house wiring and splitters.

I suspect the ONT as I had intermittent issues with the phone line a while ago. The ONT was showing error codes (the LEDs for POTS). They authorized an ONT swap, and the problem went away before they replaced it. I called them, and they told me to call back if the problem returned. I called them back when the problem returned, but it was still intermittent, so they wouldn't authorize the ONT swap until the problem was consistent.

Also, my building just did some plumbing work, in the hallway, to replace some water shutoff valves. That torch to sweat the pipes is pretty hot. I hope the heat didn't come too close to the fiber feeding my apt possibly "disfiguring" it, and causing issues for me. It's a free-for-all in the hallway ceilings, with fire alarms, cable TV, FiOS, electrical and camera cables... They're all concealed, but when the panels are removed, it's a bit crazy in there! My fiber is close to, and runs over some of the water pipes although it is inside a protective plastic tube.

Anyway...

What levels are you seeing - if you get the time/chance to check? What model TiVo do you have?

Thanks!


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## bd177 (Oct 22, 2010)

I have FIOS and I scanned about 20 channels. The highest signal is 94, the lowest is 93. Premiere 2 tuner model.


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## KENL (Dec 16, 2008)

I scanned 10 FIOS channels, signal ranged from 96 to 93. I remember when FIOS was installed the installer said that the FIOS signal runs on the hot side. He installed 3db attenuators on each of my four boxes.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

bd177 said:


> I have FIOS and I scanned about 20 channels. The highest signal is 94, the lowest is 93. Premiere 2 tuner model.





KENL said:


> I scanned 10 FIOS channels, signal ranged from 96 to 93. I remember when FIOS was installed the installer said that the FIOS signal runs on the hot side. He installed 3db attenuators on each of my four boxes.


I'm debating on what to do. I used to have signal levels in that range, but now I am down to 62 up to a max of 70. Most channels have a signal level of 63 to 65.

Changing the splitter is going to be a real pain in the butt as I have it mounted inside the post that the TV is mounted on. The post connects to a big stand, and is very difficult to move. Damn.

The only anomaly I'm seeing - actually hearing - is a weird "beep" when I change channels. It's intermittent though.

I guess I should run the cable directly from the ONT to the TiVo, and see what that does to the signal strength.

Thoughts and comments appreciated


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## jeff92k7 (Jan 18, 2006)

Is this really a problem? I've always understood that signal strength doesn't really matter when it comes to digital signals. The picture is either there, or it's not there. You can't improve the picture by getting a hotter signal.

You said that you're not seeing any anomalies, other than a beep when you change channels. I wouldn't worry about it unless the signal is breaking up, and then let the FIOS people deal with it. Why worry yourself over an arbitrary number on TiVo that isn't causing any problems.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

jeff92k7 said:


> Is this really a problem? I've always understood that signal strength doesn't really matter when it comes to digital signals. The picture is either there, or it's not there. You can't improve the picture by getting a hotter signal..


I am more concerned that the ONT is on its way out, or the splitter is bad. The picture is fine - I am concerned preventative maintenance as the drop in signal strength is concerning me..



jeff92k7 said:


> You said that you're not seeing any anomalies, other than a beep when you change channels. I wouldn't worry about it unless the signal is breaking up, and then let the FIOS people deal with it. Why worry yourself over an arbitrary number on TiVo that isn't causing any problems.


You are correct about the number. Good advice  In all honesty, having ONT go south would probably be easier for me as getting to the splitter is going to be very difficult. In hindsight, I wouldn't put the splitter in such an inaccessible place ever again.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

The ONT could be going bad? I had my 2007 ONT changed out early last year because of signal problems. I initially started having some signal problems on several channels. But then one day, half my channels were out. So they replaced the guts of the ONT which fixed the signal problems I was having.


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## NotNowChief (Mar 29, 2012)

I checked around a few channels, all are over 91.

Im using an Elite/XL4. I would look into that ONT swap at this point "just because". When the tech comes out, let him make the determination about signal strength. If the fiber wire feeding the house was warped or even tightly kinked, that will have an effect. 

The best troubleshooting you did was running a home run right to the box to check.

Oh and one other thing, since they were doing some plumbing work.......can you see if your ONT is still properly grounded.......


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

aaronwt said:


> The ONT could be going bad? I had my 2007 ONT changed out early last year because of signal problems. I initially started having some signal problems on several channels. But then one day, half my channels were out. So they replaced the guts of the ONT which fixed the signal problems I was having.


That's what I said in the 1st, 3rd and 8th post


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

NotNowChief said:


> I checked around a few channels, all are over 91.
> 
> Im using an Elite/XL4. I would look into that ONT swap at this point "just because". When the tech comes out, let him make the determination about signal strength. If the fiber wire feeding the house was warped or even tightly kinked, that will have an effect.
> 
> ...


Yes. It is properly grounded. All the wiring is inside my unit, so I have access to all the wiring except the fiber in the hall.

Verizon is not going to swap the ONT. They are (were) miserable when it comes to verifying that the ONT is bad. I went through this a while ago when I had phone line problems. It was intermittent, but when it happened, the ONT was showing an error on the POTS LED (again with a phone connected directly to the ONT). They arranged for a replacement ONT, but I stupidly called them back when the phone started working properly, and they cancelled the replacement. Well, the phone went out again (intermittently), so I called them back. They refused to replace the ONT, or even send a tech to me until they were able to actually witness the problem. I dropped it as I didn't have it in me to fight with them.

I called Verizon the other night, and asked the tech to run diagnostics on the ONT. I told her what my setup was: Two CableCARDs, Ethernet directly from the ONT - NO MoCA - don't have a Verizon router anywhere in my home, and it's not necessary because I don't have an STB...

She couldn't fathom this because this is "how the STB, and CableCARD gets its guide data"... Oh man. I knew calling them was a bad idea.

After running the test, she said the only error returned was that there was no Verizon router detected... 

She asked me if I was seeing any internet drop-outs. I told her YES. I said sometimes on streaming I get drop-outs. She went on to say that this was because I needed to hook up the Verizon router. I hate sounding like as ASS, but I really don't have the patience to deal with a tech rep that has NO CLUE 

I was very nice - I did not get mad or sound annoyed at all. I tried to explain what the Verizon router did, and that it wasn't necessary in my situation, but she wasn't having any of it - she was very nice, but completely clueless.

Her assessment of the situation was that it was either the TiVo or the fact that there is no Verizon router hooked up (she told me that the router gives out a *stronger* signal to the CableCARDs and better internet. Whoa! That is some interesting information.

She suggested that she reset the the CableCARDs  - I cut her off and said, "Wait. Please don't do that yet because I'd like to know a reset does." I feared a repair nightmare ensuing... She said, "Oh, I already did it." Turns out she wasn't doing anything that would unpair the cards. Whew.

Bottom line is that nothing was fixed.

Any suggestions on how to get them to replace the ONT?


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

NotNowChief said:


> ...Im using an Elite/XL4. I would look into that ONT swap at this point "just because". When the tech comes out, let him make the determination about signal strength. If the fiber wire feeding the house was warped or even tightly kinked, that will have an effect. ...


Regarding the possibly kinked or "melted" fiber, I can't move the suspended celling tiles in the hall to examine it. The fiber itself is "indoor" fiber, but they did run plastic conduits to each apt to protect it in the hallway ceiling. Of course the plastic conduit is going to melt immediately if the plumbers put the torch near it... It's a fairly long run, and on top of that my building is CRAZY when it comes to the "house rules". I'm sure I would be evicted if I did this.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

NotNowChief said:


> ...The best troubleshooting you did was running a home run right to the box to check...


You have special powers  as I don't see where I posted that I tested this - but I did. The signal was exactly the same with the direct run from the ONT or the in house wiring. I did use a 50ft cable, for the test, but I doubt that this would degrade signal coming directly from the ONT.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

Damn. I'm long winded tonight...


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## NotNowChief (Mar 29, 2012)

DCIFRTHS said:


> I'm debating on what to do. I used to have signal levels in that range, but now I am down to 62 up to a max of 70. Most channels have a signal level of 63 to 65.
> 
> Changing the splitter is going to be a real pain in the butt as I have it mounted inside the post that the TV is mounted on. The post connects to a big stand, and is very difficult to move. Damn.
> 
> ...


You said it here LOL.


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## NotNowChief (Mar 29, 2012)

DCIFRTHS said:


> You have special powers  as I don't see where I posted that I tested this - but I did. The signal was exactly the same with the direct run from the ONT or the in house wiring. I did use a 50ft cable, for the test, but I doubt that this would degrade signal coming directly from the ONT.


The loss on 50' is nothing. Have the check check the compression fittings as well to make sure they are attached correctly.

Otherwise, I'd go the "defective ONT" route.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

When having issues it's always best to hook up the FiOS supplied router. That way they can't use it as an excuse. I had no issues greeting the guts of my ONT changed out, but I was also missing half the channels. They did not replace the entire ONT, just the insides. but I was also on BPON at the time. I'm on GPON now.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

NotNowChief said:


> The loss on 50' is nothing. Have the check check the compression fittings as well to make sure they are attached correctly.
> 
> Otherwise, I'd go the "defective ONT" route.


I just have to figure out how to convince Verizon to replace it.

I also want them to pull another fiber from the box in the hall to my apt, but again, how to convince them to do this?

My guess is I'll have to have them do one at a time. What do you think, ONT first?


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

aaronwt said:


> When having issues it's always best to hook up the FiOS supplied router. That way they can't use it as an excuse. I had no issues greeting the guts of my ONT changed out, but I was also missing half the channels. They did not replace the entire ONT, just the insides. but I was also on BPON at the time. I'm on GPON now.


When you say they replaced just the guts, do you literally mean printed circuit boards?

Does your equipment look like the attached picture?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

DCIFRTHS said:


> When you say they replaced just the guts, do you literally mean printed circuit boards?
> 
> Does your equipment look like the attached picture?
> 
> View attachment 19489


I had an older one. One from 2007 that is outside. The housing stayed the same, they just replaced the internal components. No idea why they didn't just replace the entire thing though.

But a few months later I got the 150/65 speed tier and they switched my BPON ONT to a GPON ONT.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

aaronwt said:


> I had an older one. One from 2007 that is outside. The housing stayed the same, they just replaced the internal components. No idea why they didn't just replace the entire thing though.
> 
> But a few months later I got the 150/65 speed tier and they switched my BPON ONT to a GPON ONT.


At that point they had to change the entire ONT? Does it look the same as the one I have? What model do you have?

Do you use Ethernet directly from the ONT to your own router, or do you use MoCA for internet?

I'm considering going to the 150 speed so that they have to install a new ONT as my Ethernet port is only 100Mbps (BPON I believe).


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

DCIFRTHS said:


> At that point they had to change the entire ONT? Does it look the same as the one I have? What model do you have?
> 
> Do you use Ethernet directly from the ONT to your own router, or do you use MoCA for internet?
> 
> I'm considering going to the 150 speed so that they have to install a new ONT as my Ethernet port is only 100Mbps (BPON I believe).


They changed the entire ONT when I needed a GPON ONT for the 150 /65 service. The GPON ONT I have is gray while the BPON ONT was off white.

I've always used an Ethernet connection from my ONT. Thats the best solution since with MoCA if your router craps out, you are screwed until you can get a replacement. With Ethernet you can replace the router right away if there are issues. ,

Although I have at least three of the Actiontec routers that FiOS gave me gathering dust in my closet. I've mostly used my own router during the last six years with FiOS. But FiOS loves to send me a router out of the blue. One time they were supposed to be sending me a cable card and I got a router instead. That means I must have four of then in my closet now.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

aaronwt said:


> They changed the entire ONT when I needed a GPON ONT for the 150 /65 service. The GPON ONT I have is gray while the BPON ONT was off white.
> 
> I've always used an Ethernet connection from my ONT. Thats the best solution since with MoCA if your router craps out, you are screwed until you can get a replacement. With Ethernet you can replace the router right away if there are issues. ,
> 
> Although I have at least three of the Actiontec routers that FiOS gave me gathering dust in my closet. I've mostly used my own router during the last six years with FiOS. But FiOS loves to send me a router out of the blue. One time they were supposed to be sending me a cable card and I got a router instead. That means I must have four of then in my closet now.


Speaking of routers, what are you using? I am in the market, and can't decide. They all seem like junk to me. Either flaky, or hot, or cloud based...

Was actually considering the Apple Airport Extreme, but I don't like the fact that it doesn't have SPI. Thoughts on this?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

DCIFRTHS said:


> Speaking of routers, what are you using? I am in the market, and can't decide. They all seem like junk to me. Either flaky, or hot, or cloud based...
> 
> Was actually considering the Apple Airport Extreme, but I don't like the fact that it doesn't have SPI. Thoughts on this?


I've been using an ASUS RT-N56U router with the custom Padavan firmware since last year. I was so impressed with it I got a second one to use in AP mode. Although I was not happy with the stock Asus firmware on the RT-N56U. The second one replaced and Asus EA-N66 AP that I was again not pleased with the Asus firmware. So I returned it and picked up a second RT-N56U.

I have been very pleased with them.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

aaronwt said:


> I've been using an ASUS RT-N56U router with the custom Padavan firmware since last year. I was so impressed with it I got a second one to use in AP mode. Although I was not happy with the stock Asus firmware on the RT-N56U. The second one replaced and Asus EA-N66 AP that I was again not pleased with the Asus firmware. So I returned it and picked up a second RT-N56U.
> 
> I have been very pleased with them.


When you used the Verizon router, how did you like it? Why did you stop using it?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

DCIFRTHS said:


> When you used the Verizon router, how did you like it? Why did you stop using it?


I used it initially when I had a STB for VOD. I still used a DLink Gaming router though. I would just switch them around, sometimes connecting my FiOS router to the ONT and sometimes connecting my DLINK to the ONT. And over the years I would periodically connect the FIOS router, but since I've had the Asus router I have not connected the FiOS router.

I remember the FiOS router didn't have as good specs as the ASus or DLink routers I've used. For your average home it would be fine, but I use dozens of devices and other routers have more options than the FiOS router. Plus the wireless capability of the FiOS routers has never been as good as other routers or APs I've used.


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