# Bolt Vox Can't see other TiVo Roamios



## lujan (May 24, 2010)

I've had an issue for the last several months where my fairly new Bolt Vox is unable to see the other 2 TiVo Roamios on my network. I've called TiVo support 2 or 3 times and they've had me restart all the TiVo's, restart the routers, connect to TiVo Service several times. Sometimes it works and other times it doesn't. The last time I called yesterday they had me do the same along with moving the Bolt over to one of the Roamio locations. The Bolt started to see the Roamios at the new location but when I moved it back, it couldn't see the Roamios again. Don't know if it's a Bolt issue or a network issue? I'm using a Netgear ethernet switch at all locations. I've already tried moving ethernet cables from one device to another to see if it helps but it didn't. Anyone have some ideas about what to try next? TiVo has indicated that if I need to call again they will replace the Bolt.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Try searching these forums for:

IGMP Snooping 

-KP


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

lujan said:


> Anyone have some ideas about what to try next? TiVo has indicated that if I need to call again they will replace the Bolt.


While things are working, go to Networking and document each device's IP address. When the failure happens again, check them again and see if there is a change.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

kpeters59 said:


> Try searching these forums for:
> 
> IGMP Snooping
> 
> -KP


This didn't help. I tried installing the Netgear configuration utility and it didn't find any switches on my network even though I have four of them.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

JoeKustra said:


> While things are working, go to Networking and document each device's IP address. When the failure happens again, check them again and see if there is a change.


I need to know if this issue occurs on all Bolts or just some of them. If I know this does not occur on all Bolts, I can have it replaced. Also will the issue stop if I give the Bolt a static IP? Just asking because you indicated to check the IP address on all the TiVos?


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

It varies with all the hardware and wiring configurations.

Care to list your networking hardware and a diagram of your wiring?

-KP


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

lujan said:


> Just asking because you indicated to check the IP address on all the TiVos?


I have see posts where the IP address is invalid, meaning it's not 192.168.1.xxx, but something like 192.144.0.xxx. But I don't know why that happened.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

The 169.x.x.x subnet is the Auto-Assign Subnet. It's what devices give themselves when all else fails.

192.x.x.x
10.x.x.x
172.x.x.x

Are all Private Subnets. They can't be routed on the Internet and are 'set aside' for LAN's.

-KP


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

kpeters59 said:


> It varies with all the hardware and wiring configurations.
> 
> Care to list your networking hardware and a diagram of your wiring?
> 
> -KP





JoeKustra said:


> I have see posts where the IP address is invalid, meaning it's not 192.168.1.xxx, but something like 192.144.0.xxx. But I don't know why that happened.


No, the I.P. address is valid (192.168.0.xxx). It's a fairly complex network consisting of 51 (as last reported by Fing) devices, a Arris modem, a Netgear router, four Netgear ethernet switches (3 5-port and 1 8-port). The Bolt is connected to the 8-port switch close to the last port (if this might make a difference?).

I have a Roamio that has the same One Pass Manager recordings scheduled that I can move to the Bolt location to test for several days. If the Bolt still doesn't work at the new location then I'll know it's something wrong with the Bolt because the Roamio can see the Bolt as well as the other Roamio from its current location. If the Bolt starts to work then I'll know it's something wrong with the switch or cable. Thanks for the responses!


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## elorimer (Jan 1, 2012)

I have a hunch you might have two DHCP servers going. In the OP you say when you move the bolt to where a roamio is it sees the other roamios. So document the IP address of each of the two Roamios and the bolt to make sure they are each 192.168.0.xxx with a 255.255.255.0 mask and a 192.168.0.1 default gateway.

The Arris modem should be connected to the router's WAN port and not any of the LAN ports.

Then, try and ping each of them from the two locations.

The switches in any configuration shouldn't be a problem, but do you have any other device that might be acting as a DHCP server? An NAS, or an access point?


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

In my observances on this Forum, it seems like the Netgear Switches are the most commonly used when there turns out to have been an issue with IGMP Snooping and intermittent Mini function.

I sure would eliminate that as an issue before making a lot of other changes.

What are the model numbers of your Netgear Switches?

It seems to me that if you built that Network, you most likely managed to not have two DHCP Servers running. But, do make sure.

-KP


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

kpeters59 said:


> In my observances on this Forum, it seems like the Netgear Switches are the most commonly used when there turns out to have been an issue with IGMP Snooping and intermittent Mini function.
> 
> I sure would eliminate that as an issue before making a lot of other changes.
> 
> ...


I doubt that I have two DHCP servers running unless a Plex server can also serve as a HDCP Server? The model numbers are:

GS205 and GS208 for the Netgear switches.

I looked at the thread you posted but couldn't tell by looking at it what I needed to do to eliminate this possibility (IGMP Snooping).


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## elorimer (Jan 1, 2012)

lujan said:


> Plex server


If i recall, this would need a static IP address. Is it reserved in the router, so it is not being handed out to the Bolt?


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Who even knows what that means?

Plex does not have a DHCP Server built in.

-KP


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## elorimer (Jan 1, 2012)

kpeters59 said:


> Who even knows what that means?


Is this in response to me?

To be less cryptic, if I recall correctly, a plex server requires a static IP address to work. Unless that IP address is outside the range of IP addresses handed out by a DHCP server (either by being reserved for that MAC address or outside the range), with 51 devices in the network there is a better than 99% chance the DHCP server will hand out the same IP address to a different device. Might be the bolt, and once handed out it will renew.

The OP is likely to have some sort of networking issue, and I guess we need to hear more.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

elorimer said:


> Is this in response to me?
> ...
> The OP is likely to have some sort of networking issue, and I guess we need to hear more.


It appears to be a networking issue. I've swapped the Bolt location with one of the Roamios and at first it seemed the Bolt was working fine since it could see the other two Roamios at least for a couple of days. The Roamio couldn't see the other TiVos for the most part. This morning I checked again and the Roamio (which is now at the original Bolt location) couldn't see any TiVos and the Bolt could only see one of the Roamios but not the other. It appears now like it's a networking problem and not a Bolt problem which is kind of a relief because I don't have to replace the Bolt. It seems to happen more often at the original location where I have an 8-port ethernet switch. It doesn't happen as often at the 5-port locations. This then goes back to the original problem though because I don't know how to fix it?


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Some 'Green' ethernet switches have been known to have problems after they 'sleep' due to inactivity.

-KP


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

lujan said:


> I'm using a Netgear ethernet switch at all locations.


What specific model numbers (i.e. including version number)? And same for your router.

IGMP Snooping/Proxying should be disabled on the router, as well.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> Info related to "IGMP Snooping" issues...
> 
> Ethernet vs. Moca - help
> Mini Losing Connection to Roamio
> ...


also this thread: Epic Failure

You would also want to make sure that your DVRs are NOT put into Standby mode, either manually or automatically via the Power Saving settings.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

krkaufman said:


> What specific model numbers (i.e. including version number)? And same for your router.
> 
> IGMP Snooping/Proxying should be disabled on the router, as well.


GS205 and GS208 as I posted earlier in this thread. They are all V2. I bought them here:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KFD0SMC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

When I checked the router, it appears that IGMP Proxying is already disabled:


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

lujan said:


> GS205 and GS208 as I posted earlier in this thread.


And the version wasn't included in that post, which is why the question was asked and left in place.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Also missing from the thread is the TiVo software versions running on the boxes. 20.? 21.?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

lujan said:


> GS205 and GS208


Have you tried replacing one or both with another switch (e.g.)? (Ideally purchased from a source with a friendly returns policy.)


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

krkaufman said:


> Have you tried replacing one or both with another switch (e.g.)? (Ideally purchased from a source with a friendly returns policy.)


It appears these unmanaged switches are not discoverable or configurable as I tried as suggested on disabling IGMP snooping. The ProSAFE Plus Configuration Utility did not find any switches as at.

I guess I could try another switch or also try calling Netgear but I doubt that Netgear would be able to help?


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## elorimer (Jan 1, 2012)

You might try taking one of the switches out of the equation entirely by plugging the inbound cable directly into the Tivo. Just to test.

I remember I had difficulties with a GS205 feeding an XBOX 360 because the buffer and NAT table were small; the gigabit feed into the switch was too much for the 100mbps connection out of the switch. I replaced with a TPLink and the problem went away.

Also, the IP addresses.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

elorimer said:


> You might try taking one of the switches out of the equation entirely by plugging the inbound cable directly into the Tivo. Just to test.
> 
> I remember I had difficulties with a GS205 feeding an XBOX 360 because the buffer and NAT table were small; the gigabit feed into the switch was too much for the 100mbps connection out of the switch. I replaced with a TPLink and the problem went away.
> 
> Also, the IP addresses.


Is your TPLink managed or unmanaged?


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

TiVo finally agreed to replace the Bolt Vox without charge after speaking with a supervisor. I'm hoping that this issue has to do with the Bolt more than the Network or ethernet switches since the Roamios work fine in my environment? It doesn't seem to be a widespread issue regarding the Bolts from looking at this forum. Thanks to all that posted responses to this issue.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Might as well try a Clear and Delete Everything then and see what happens.

-KP


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

kpeters59 said:


> Might as well try a Clear and Delete Everything then and see what happens.
> 
> -KP


I did and it still didn't work. Also, anyone know if the HDMI cable supplied with the Bolt is certified for 18Gbs? I did a search for "SCBL-00037-107" which is the part number on the package but couldn't find anything about it.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

I ended up not sending for a replacement Bolt because I hadn't tried one more thing. I ended up changing the network connection from ethernet cable to wifi for all 3 TiVos. After this, they are able to see all the TiVos in the network but has also caused other issues. The network connection is far less stable where if I watch a program from another TiVo it will give me a "connection lost" message a few times during the show. Also, transferring shows from one to another will take forever and seems to break up the shows into multiple files instead of the original one file. What to do? Should I change them all back to ethernet cable connection and have a more stable connection but then again have the issue where they might not see the other boxes?


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

You never tried replacing the switch?

I avoid WiFi for things I like to work reliably.

-KP


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

Replacing the switch would be a last resort because the Netgear ones I have are fairly new and the TP-Link managed switch costs quite a bit and I would need 3 of them (one for each TiVo).


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

You wouldn't necessarily need managed switches.

Plus, if you buy them somewhere that has a liberal return policy, you can take them back, _if they don't solve it...
_
I'd just avoid Netgear for TiVo. It seems they're involved in most of the connection issues.

-KP


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

kpeters59 said:


> You never tried replacing the switch?
> 
> I avoid WiFi for things I like to work reliably.
> 
> -KP





kpeters59 said:


> You wouldn't necessarily need managed switches.
> 
> Plus, if you buy them somewhere that has a liberal return policy, you can take them back, _if they don't solve it...
> _
> ...


Ok, I was thinking managed because of the whole IGMP Snooping thing. If they're unmanaged then you can't set this to "Off".


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

'cause it doesn't employ Snooping at all. Except sometimes it seems like Netgear's manage to not work anyway...

-KP


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kpeters59 said:


> 'cause it doesn't employ Snooping at all. Except sometimes it seems like Netgear's manage to not work anyway...


Hard to say whether the Netgear unmanaged switches employ IGMP Snooping or not, and if it varies between models. The default for Netgear routers and managed switches appears to be that IGMP Snooping/Proxying is enabled.

(And then there's the "green"/power saving issues experienced by some switches.)


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

krkaufman said:


> Hard to say whether the Netgear unmanaged switches employ IGMP Snooping or not, and if it varies between models. The default for Netgear routers and managed switches appears to be that IGMP Snooping/Proxying is enabled.
> 
> (And then there's the "green"/power saving issues experienced by some switches.)


My Netgear router was set to Off by default for IGMP.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

I ordered the 5-port and 8-port versions of these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A121WN6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Hopefully, it fixes the issue? If not,as kpeters59 said, I can always return them since Amazon has a very liberal return policy.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Good plan...

To be fair, I wasn't the first one to suggest that to you...

-KP


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

kpeters59 said:


> Good plan...
> 
> To be fair, I wasn't the first one to suggest that to you...
> 
> -KP


Thanks to krkaufman as well...


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

lujan said:


> I ordered the 5-port and 8-port versions of these:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A121WN6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> Hopefully, it fixes the issue? If not,as kpeters59 said, I can always return them since Amazon has a very liberal return policy.


Well the TP-Link ethernet switches didn't help. The Roamios can see each other but they can't see the Bolt Vox and the Bolt can't see either of the Roamios. I guess I'm going to have to try exchanging it again. This has been such a pain and time consuming effort to try and correct. I'm at my wits end!


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## elorimer (Jan 1, 2012)

This is a shot in the dark, but when I have QoS enabled on my router, my Tivos don't see each other. Do you have QoS enabled?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

lujan said:


> Well the TP-Link ethernet switches didn't help. The Roamios can see each other but they can't see the Bolt Vox and the Bolt can't see either of the Roamios. I guess I'm going to have to try exchanging it again. This has been such a pain and time consuming effort to try and correct. I'm at my wits end!


Back a ways, you have a default DMZ Server as 192.168.1.20. It may be nothing, but why did you change it from .0? BTW, I just lost the ability to receive programs on one of my Roamio units. Everything else is fine, and I can still record and read or move recording off the box.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

elorimer said:


> This is a shot in the dark, but when I have QoS enabled on my router, my Tivos don't see each other. Do you have QoS enabled?


I once had a Netgear R7500 router. It would slow everything down to crawl with QoS enabled. My fix was to buy an R8000 which works great. I still have QoS disabled.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

elorimer said:


> This is a shot in the dark, but when I have QoS enabled on my router, my Tivos don't see each other. Do you have QoS enabled?


QoS is turned Off.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

JoeKustra said:


> Back a ways, you have a default DMZ Server as 192.168.1.20. It may be nothing, but why did you change it from .0? BTW, I just lost the ability to receive programs on one of my Roamio units. Everything else is fine, and I can still record and read or move recording off the box.


DMZ is also turned Off so the 192.168.1.20 is the default and cannot be changed. If I were to check mark "DMZ" then it would allow me to change the address.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

As another last Hail Mary, you might try Reserving IP Address' in the Router for all your TiVo equipment. Maybe anything else that's more or less 'always' connected to your network, too.

I've seen where Static IP Address' cause the Router to then ignore the device (apparently) because the Device isn't assigned an address by that Router.

Once Reserved, you can still assign that address as Static, although it ought not matter.

Also, maybe try to do a full network shutdown and then a slow methodical power-up, one device at a time, starting at the router, and waiting until each device is fully powered up before powering on the 'next' device. Do your TiVo's before your Mini's, in case that's not obvious.

-KP


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

TiVo asked me to connect the Bolt directly to the router yesterday and it has been working fine since then so it appears that it's the Ethernet switch but it doesn't work when using either the Netgear switch or the TP-Link switch but I currently have a long Ethernet cable connected going from the router in another room to the Bolt so I can't leave it like this.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Dang it!

TP-Link was probably the 2nd most mentioned brand that has been mentioned when this issue occurs. 

That may only be because Netgear and TP-Link are so readily available...

-KP


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## LarryAtHome (Feb 18, 2008)

How many addresses is the DHCP server set to serve out? There may be a range setting in your router.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

LarryAtHome said:


> How many addresses is the DHCP server set to serve out? There may be a range setting in your router.


2 - 254

All the TiVos fall within this range.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

lujan said:


> TiVo asked me to connect the Bolt directly to the router yesterday and it has been working fine since then so it appears that it's the Ethernet switch but it doesn't work when using either the Netgear switch or the TP-Link switch but I currently have a long Ethernet cable connected going from the router in another room to the Bolt so I can't leave it like this.


I spoke too soon. This evening when I tested the Bolt while connected directly to the router, it still couldn't see the Roamios. It seems it only works while using a wifi connection.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

I got my replacement Bolt and have tried it for a few days under the Hydra interface and I'm getting used to it. It's still not seeing the other TiVo's or I should say not consistently. Sometimes it will see the Roamios but most of the time not. The only other thing I haven't tried is changing the network switch from an 8-port to a 5-port. The Roamios are connected to 5-port switches and don't seem to have the problems the Bolt has with the 8-port switch.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

elorimer said:


> Is this in response to me?
> 
> To be less cryptic, if I recall correctly, a plex server requires a static IP address to work. Unless that IP address is outside the range of IP addresses handed out by a DHCP server (either by being reserved for that MAC address or outside the range), with 51 devices in the network there is a better than 99% chance the DHCP server will hand out the same IP address to a different device. Might be the bolt, and once handed out it will renew.
> 
> The OP is likely to have some sort of networking issue, and I guess we need to hear more.


plex can run on dhcp since that is how mine is setup.


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

I now have three bolts, two of which are vid bolts. I havev downriver all to the older interface so my wife doesn’t kill me for introducing another interface. We also have two premieres online. If only one bolt is online network problems are minimal, two gets a little picky. Three makes the network pretty unreliable as far as TiVo’s are concerned.

It appears to me that the problem may be related to the number and different model software accessing the network. It may be down in the network stack - possibly with communications multitasking.

I’m wondering if the Hydra network stack is the same.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

I'm guessing it's the same network stack with Hydra because the Bolt with Hydra still almost always never sees the two Roamios on the network. The Roamios, however, do see the Bolt. It was the same situation when the Bolt had been downgraded to the pre-Hydra interface.


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## arw01 (Feb 22, 2003)

Fixed? See the same thing on mine, used to work, now it does not. Ubiquiti gear for me.


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