# Reasons for leaving DirecTV - Feedback requested



## flatcurve (Sep 27, 2007)

So we recently left DirecTV, after having been with them for many years. It was a tough decision that actually took a bit of time to make. We finally opted to go with RCN cable using a Series 3 and cable cards. It's been a couple months now, and in the end, I've been extremely satisfied with that decision.

So, I decided to write a little article that outlined the decision making process that I went through to maybe help some people who are still on the fence. It should be noted that the conclusions I draw in the article are my own subjective opinions and not anybody else's. I'd love to hear some feedback on those points. At the very least I expect to be fully vetted while being dragged over the coals 

(I should add that I was given a chance to test drive an HR21 for a couple months as well)
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Why I left DirecTV and decided to stick with TiVo.

When News Corp bought DirecTV several years ago, they chose to abandon their relationship with TiVo in favor of using cheaper DVRs from their subsidiary company, NDS. This move left a lot of TiVo users in a precarious position. Many of us were introduced to TiVo by DirecTV, while others gravitated towards the service just for TiVo alone. But regardless of how you wound up with that peanut remote in your hand, one thing was certain: you didn't want to put it down.

Today, more than two years after DirecTV stopped selling TiVo branded DVRs, many TiVo owners with aging and dying DVRs are asking themselves some tough questions: Should I just get my DVR repaired and stick with DirecTV? Should I abandon the TiVo and settle for a generic DVR? Or should I ditch DirecTV altogether, and get a brand new TiVo to use with cable? Obviously for those either stuck in service contracts or lacking a local cable provider, the latter choice doesn't apply. But for those of us fortunate enough to have this choice available, the decision can be quite daunting to make. Do I stick with the same service provider I've been with for years, or do I forge ahead with the device that totally changed my TV viewing experience forever? The purpose of this article is to show you the process that I went through in making this decision myself. Whether you agree with the conclusions I've drawn or not, it should at the very least aid you in making a definitive decision either way.

If one were to base his or her decision solely on the quality of the DVR, it would be no contest. The TiVo interface simply can't be beat in terms of usability and style. Not being satisfied with simply giving users the ability to record shows, TiVo has also consistently lead the way in the DVR market by constantly bringing new features to the table. The TiVo feature set is second to none, giving users options that you would never find on a DirecTV DVR, or any other generic DVR for that matter. This is why every DVR out there is almost always referred to as a TiVo, even if it isn't one. For those of you who have been using DirecTV TiVos for some time now, you truly don't know what you've been missing out on with the newer models.

The capabilities on the TiVo HD DVRs are impressive, to say the least. With a stand-alone TiVo, you can transfer videos to and from the DVR to your computer. You can also browse through your own photo and music collection, rent or buy downloadable movies from Amazon Unbox, watch and subscribe to video podcasts and so much more! For more details on those features, take a look at this article outlining what makes TiVo stand out from the rest.

So the next big question would be: Is the content from DirecTV more valuable to me than the content I can get from my local cable provider? In my opinion, it is not. While it is true that DirecTV offers more HD content than any other provider at this time, it is my belief that this additional content is not particularly valuable. Do I feel like giving up my TiVo just so I can watch Fox News in HD? No, not really. But to get any HD offerings beyond the local channels and a handful of others from DirecTV, I would have to do just that. It doesn't seem like a fair trade to me. This is typical of the numbers game that DirecTV has been trying to play lately. They make a claim to having 95 national channels in HD, which is supposed to make you want to trade in your TiVo. What they don't tell you is that they're including exclusive sports packages and pay-per-view in that total. When you trim off all the irrelevant hype, the number is closer to the high 60s. Even then, a good number of those channels do not broadcast in HD resolutions 24/7, and mostly serve as filler.

Then there is the issue with the rest of DirecTV's lineup. Quite frankly, the standard definition lineup is almost exactly the same no matter which provider you turn to be it satellite or cable. There are approximately the same 70 channels in every provider's "basic" lineup. When you include additional "digital" tier service packages, and premium channels, that number ranges anywhere from 150 to 220 channels. According to a recent congressional study, the average household with cable or satellite service only watches 17 different channels in a given month. That means that 92% of the content that you pay for is going unwatched and unnoticed. So should it really matter then if DirecTV has 220 channels and Comcast only has 180? Not if those 40 channels don't include anything that you don't watch. Chances are they don't.

Take a look at a channel lineup study that I recently compiled to compare the offerings of eight different service providers _(files are also at end of article)_. This list was compiled with information available in April of 2008, and may not reflect the current lineup for all of these providers in all areas, but it does give you a good comparison. On the left side, there are two columns labeled HR10-250 and HR20/21. The HR10 is DirecTV's HD Tivo, and the HR20 is their newer generic model. The only difference between these two lineups is obviously what's available in HD. You'll notice that the HR20 has the largest available lineup with 219 channels. Fios and Comcast placed second and third respectively. On the other end of the spectrum we have WOW cable (significantly cheaper than DirecTV more often than not) which offers up a seemingly paltry amount of channels at 149.

So where are those 70 channels, and what are WOW customers missing out on? Turns out, not that much. Let's take a look at that table again. While WOW doesn't have as much HD content as an HR20, it still has more than an HR10. It stands to reason that as time goes on they will only be adding more HD channels as well. However, the reverse is true with the HR10, where HD channels are being taken away regularly. This discrepancy alone accounts for 47 of the missing channels. But don't worry. While you're pining away at not being able to watch the Tennis Channel in HD, you can at least take comfort in one thing: WOW carries more premium movie channel content than DirecTV. Over 25% more! In fact nearly every cable provider carries more premium movie content than DirecTV. Movies are almost universally more appealing than the specialized sports and news channels that DirecTV has filled it's HD rosters with.

When looking at the rest of the dial, it also becomes obvious that the rest of what is missing is mostly insignificant. The majority of the remaining difference lies in 3rd rate specialized cable networks, home shopping channels and religious programming. My point being that when it comes to core content that people actually watch, there isn't much difference between one provider and the next. Additionally, it should be noted that the newer HR21 from DirecTV does not support OTA, whereas both the Series3 and TiVo HD do. For those of you who depend on your HR10-250 OTA channels to get your locals, this is something very important to consider.

So if the TiVo is better, and the content from cable providers isn't significantly different, why is there hesitation? Well I can't speak for everyone out there, but for my own part it had a lot to do with swallowing my pride and going back to cable. I could easily sit here all day and tell you about how the real deliberation revolved around content, cost, and service. But the fact of the matter is, after I realized that I was getting everything I wanted to watch, would actually end up paying less for similar service from cable (_thanks to local taxes and franchise regulations, I understand this may not be typical for everyone_), and hadn't been getting great customer service from DirecTV lately anyway, I was still hesitant.

You see, I, like many people, had run from cable as fast as I could, shaking my fist in anger and shouting "NEVER AGAIN!" to anybody who could hear me. But there is a lot to be said for what can happen in ten years. Back then most cable companies pretty much had a sweet deal with their government protected monopolies. The level of service you could expect wasn't much higher than what you would get from your friendly local DMV. There was no way that a start-up would be able to walk through the miles of red tape that is required to license franchises in enough locations to be profitable, which basically meant it was a non-competitive and captive market. But then literally down from the heavens came DirecTV and Echostar. Not hindered by terrestrial cable right-of-way and franchise licensing disputes, these two brash companies were able to instantly offer nationwide service at competitive prices, as long as you had a clear view of the southern sky. For those of you who were fed up with cable like me, you probably hopped into this lifeboat as quickly as you could.

As much of a lifesaver as DBS television was for us, it also served to wake up the complacent cable industry and force them to be competitive. Admittedly, they did ignore the threat for some time. However with the widespread advent of digital cable, they have basically regained their footing and turned it into a neck and neck race. I promise you, the cable company you left all those years ago is much different today than it was back then, and in some cases is quite literally a different company altogether. It's been replaced with a company that is eager to have your business and is willing to compete. With a valid choice out there that offers you what you want, you almost owe it to yourself to at least consider it again.

I am probably more stubborn than anybody I know. But when I realized that I was letting my own stubbornness cheat me out of something I wanted because of something that happened years ago, I recognized the futility and made the call the very next day. What I had wanted from DirecTV had been staring me right in the face for well over a year now, it just wasn't coming from DirecTV. I am proud to report that there has not been a single thing that has made me regret my decision thus far. The only thing I regret is not doing this sooner.


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## SteelersFan (Sep 7, 2004)

Thanks. Good article. I have one "nit-pick":


flatcurve said:


> ... Additionally, it should be noted that the newer HR21 from DirecTV does not support OTA, whereas both the Series3 and TiVo HD do. For those of you who depend on your HR10-250 OTA channels to get your locals, this is something very important to consider...


I believe the AM21 (a separate unit that plugs into the HR21) now gives the HR21 OTA capability.


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## Mavrick22 (Feb 7, 2006)

SteelersFan said:


> Thanks. Good article. I have one "nit-pick":
> 
> I believe the AM21 now gives the HR21 OTA capability.


Yes it does for I have one and my HR21 get OTA just fine.


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## flatcurve (Sep 27, 2007)

Ah! Thanks for the clarification. I'll either strike that line or note it in the final draft.


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## UnbiasedOpin (Jul 23, 2005)

In our area you could not be further from the truth. We are in a Charter only cable area and while the service itself is OK (if you don't try to have two digital receivers in the same house), the customer service and pricing is so outrageous that I will still swear them off until my dying day. 

Incidentally, I use Charter's highspeed internet access which runs very well on fiber all the way to our house and I have tried their SUPER CRAPPY DVR box (putting my DirecTV account on hold for a couple of months), well three different boxes in our den cuz they just turn around the same crappy box that someone else had trouble with. After three different boxes in three weeks in the same room, I discovered part of the problem was trying to connect two digital boxes to the same splitter -- so I tried three or four of them and an amplifier, getting more expensive every time, and I tried their service people and they couldn't get it to work right either (one tv would have all the channels while the other tv missed major blocks of digital channels). I also had hard drive issues with one of them -- freezing up, not recording when it was supposed to, and stuff like that -- Scientific Atlanta has a LONG way to go to catch up with Tivo. 

NO CABLE TV, NOT IN THIS HOUSEHOLD!!! I will stick with my DVR80 forever cuz I don't give a rats about HD!!

Why did I even try Charter cable after ten years of DirecTV? Cuz as the IT guy of our business, my company pays my cable bill since I have to have the highspeed internet to work on servers at night!! So it is costing me money to have both where I could have TV service for "free" if I let the company pay and suffered through Charter Cable.

To be fair, another thing I will never have is DirecWay Internet access!! No latency and throttled down service for me!!


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

As long as this HDTivo works I will continue to use it for whatever channels in HD that they manage to deliver. 
They can call all they want; I just tell them this Tivo works fine and to bother someone else. 
If they ever shut down the HD I receive then I will save the 10 bucks and continue to enjoy my HD-OTA as it does a fine job with that.


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## Dante101 (Aug 1, 2003)

Yeah, I first got Tivo through DTV. I came to DTV because I absolutely hated the various cable companies I've had over the years. I loved DTV as soon as it was installed. A few years later I got a Tivo, and now I love my Tivo more than the DTV service.

I have AT&T's Uverse deal for internet access. I haven't researched it fully yet, but if Uverse TV could be done with a Tivo (rather than their own Motorola DVR) then I'd go with them (if the day ever came where I would need to drop Tivo to stay with DTV).


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## jmoak (Jun 20, 2000)

Picture Quality.

From the second season of Enterprise on my locals to the current Battlestar Galactica run on SciFi, the picture quality has slipped badly while the local cable around here has progressively been getting better and better.

With no hope for the "regular" channels to go to a new compression scheme any time soon (HD's gotta come first with mpeg4, dangit!), I've been slowly migrating the rest of the house over to standalone/w cable boxes and hdtivo's.

If directv's regular channel picture quality hasn't improved by the end of next football season, I'm gone.

It's been a great service over the last nine or ten years, but I'm tired of seeing blocks and smears. I never thought I'd go back to cable, but I don't have too much choice if I want to move to a BIG tv one day soon.

btw, my signal quality is around 90 to 95 on all channels except for the local mux, it's 100


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## flatcurve (Sep 27, 2007)

UnbiasedOpin said:


> In our area you could not be further from the truth. We are in a Charter only cable area and while the service itself is OK (if you don't try to have two digital receivers in the same house), the customer service and pricing is so outrageous that I will still swear them off until my dying day.
> 
> ...
> 
> NO CABLE TV, NOT IN THIS HOUSEHOLD!!! I will stick with my DVR80 forever cuz I don't give a rats about HD!!


Yeah, this is part of the reason I didn't focus too much on pricing. While I was able to find two companies in my area that were significantly cheaper than DirecTV after throwing in all the HD content and premium channels, I can't definitively say that it's the case all over. Even the same company is different across the country. By us, Comcast's pricing is outrageous... but my friend on the west coast pays half of what I would pay. It's just weird like that.

Also, I agree with your sentiment regarding SD. I think that if HD isn't a concern at all, then an SD DirecTV TiVo is a great way to go. This article is directed more so at people who've got HR10-250s that are slowly becoming more obsolete (while their bills stay the same.) Re-reading it, I realized I could probably make that clearer.

Thanks!


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## flatcurve (Sep 27, 2007)

jmoak said:


> Picture Quality.


Yeah, I actually had a paragraph in there about this... but what I'm finding from the good folks over at AVS is that it's another mixed bag. It all depends on the provider and their compression schemes. Of course, FiOS wins the PQ contest hands down. I've seen Comcast to be comparable to DirecTV in my area. RCN is just as good if not better. The rest of them I can't speak for.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

I used Tivo for over 5 years. For many years I had 2 HD DirecTivo's and 3 SD DirecTivo's active. Switching to the HR20's from Directv is not as hard or as painful as you guys are making it sound. They record my shows and play them back later. I have to press almost the exact same number of buttons on the remote to make it happen.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

LOL


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## flatcurve (Sep 27, 2007)

HiDefGator said:


> I used Tivo for over 5 years. For many years I had 2 HD DirecTivo's and 3 SD DirecTivo's active. Switching to the HR20's from Directv is not as hard or as painful as you guys are making it sound. They record my shows and play them back later. I have to press almost the exact same number of buttons on the remote to make it happen.


You're absolutely right. Switching to the HR20 wasn't hard at all. They even sent me one to try out. It was the decision to _not_ use the HR20 that was hard. I will concede that if all you're interested in is recording shows and watching them later, then the HR20 is adequate. But it's no TiVo. No dual live TV buffers and no TiVoToGo/ComeBack are the biggest sticking points IMO.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I made the switch to FIOS for many of the reasons cited by the OP. At the time, FIOS offered almost the exact same HD channel lineup as DirecTV but the picture quality with FIOS blew DirecTV right out of the water. I had been with DirecTV for over 10 years and was getting dismayed by the steadily declining picture quality on all of their channels, or at least the ones I watched. The degradation was so gradual that most people never noticed it. I had shows archived from DirecTV going back to around the year 2000 in the original digital format so the archived program was an exact copy of the original. The picture quality of standard definition shows aired 5 or 6 years ago was way better than what they were showing only 17 months ago when I left DirecTV.

I was at a crossroads where I had to make a choice. In order to continue with DirecTV, I was going to have to swap out my HDTivos for the new HR20. At the time, the HR20 was still in the early stages and was a bit buggy so I was a little leary about getting stuck in a 2-year commitment with a DVR I could possibly end up hating. The startup dates for the new HD lineup kept getting pushed back so I didn't know if the gamble was worth the risk. The thought of a renewed commitment to get programming that was only a vague promise at that point with a DVR that wasn't giving me a warm fuzzy just didn't seem like a good choice. The total package offered by FIOS was just too good to pass up. The option to get high speed internet at a lower price without all of the restrictions imposed by Comcast really sealed the deal for me.

In retrospect, staying with DirecTV may not have been a bad choice based on the latest reports of the HR20 and many of the channels I watch are now offered in HD by DirecTV. FIOS is still playing catchup with DirecTV but that will change in July when they go all digital and beef up their HD lineup. I haven't seen a list of the new HD channels they'll be adding but I suspect they will be inline with what DirecTV is currently offering.

If I had to make the choice today it would be a much tougher decision than it was 17 months ago. While I love my Tivos, the main thing I use them for is timeshifting and the HR20 is reported to be a decent DVR for this purpose. Now that FIOS will be expanding their HD lineup I think I'd still tend to lean in that direction since I'd be able to use S3 Tivos or Tivo HDs. If cable was my only other option I'm pretty sure I'd stay with DirecTV.


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## flatcurve (Sep 27, 2007)

I tell ya, I sure wish I had FiOS in my area. It's not going to happen though. Closest FTTH offering will be AT&T's U-Verse.

FiOS is poised to blow everybody out of the water with HD though. It should make things interesting. I keep hearing 150 channels this year. I'd like to know where they're even going to get that much HD content.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

flatcurve, this was a very well-written article.

I was a lot like you - remembering how awful cable used to be. I tried 3 different times to get Direct to send me the HR2x for a home-trial period, but they wouldn't budge. I certainly wasn't going to sign up for a 2-yr contract w/o ever trying it at home.

So, I decided to test the Tivo HD, first on my antenna, and then on Comcast. The test lasted about 2 days. I compared my Season Passes on Direct to Comcast and was amazed at how much was in HD. 

There were 2 things that quickly made up my mind - the SD picture was absolutely amazing (as has been mentioned by another poster)on cable, and the additional features on the Tivo HD made me mad at myself that I hadn't tried it several months earlier when it first came out.

So, instead of running both services for 3 weeks while I did the comparison, I canceled Direct after only a week. Even then I waited several days because I took my HR10-250 over to my daughter's house so they could see the Super Bowl in HD, or else I probably would have canceled after only 2 days.

My suggestion to anyone considering what to do is to see how much a 30-day trial would cost on your local cable using a Tivo HD. The other option is to just get the Tivo HD and hook it to an antenna for a 30-day test, as I initially did. 

The big advantage to testing Tivo first is that it might not cost that much if you decide to stay with Direct. In my case, Comcast charged $17.95 to hook up the M-card, plus the fee for the digital service. So I wouldn't have been out too much money if the test didn't go well. On the other hand, I might have been stuck with a dvr from Direct that I didn't like and that would have cost almost $500 to abandon the service, because of their commitments.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

flatcurve said:


> I tell ya, I sure wish I had FiOS in my area. It's not going to happen though. Closest FTTH offering will be AT&T's U-Verse.
> 
> FiOS is poised to blow everybody out of the water with HD though. It should make things interesting. I keep hearing 150 channels this year. I'd like to know where they're even going to get that much HD content.


Ask DirecTV. They've been making all sorts of claims about new HD channels for some time. It will probably end up being an additional 75 shopping channels and 75 religious channels in HD.


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## marktd (Jan 9, 2005)

mr.unnatural said:


> FIOS is still playing catchup with DirecTV but that will change in July when they go all digital. . . .


What does this mean? FiOS cannot be other than all digital - or do you mean digital source material?


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## madbeachcat (Jan 31, 2002)

Only have a couple of points. First you make the assumption that Tivo is better. And maybe for some it is. Not for me. 

Second, a lot of the features that you talk about having with Tivo were never available with the Dtivo. And seem to coming with the HR20/21's. Plus a few things that Tivo doesn't have. 

I am happy for you and your choice seems to be working for you, but it would not work for me, and, I suspect a lot of others. Personally I have never had a good experience with cable and do not intend to ever go back.

But, whatever makes you happy.


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## durst (Nov 12, 2002)

The main issue I had whith cable and a stand alone Tivo was I hated the IR channel changer thing. What a piece of crap. Has this improved any, or is it still the only way to use the stand alones.

also, I have had DirecTivos for about 10 years now and never really noticed a change in the quality. Of course I notice some pixelation now and then, but that is due to a bad signal from my dish. A few weeks ago the wind loosened up the dish on my house and since then the signal goes week sometimes. Other than that, the quality has been unoticeable to me. 

My only other option is Charter as well, and I use them for my ISP already so I get the basic channels, which I don't even use. Guess I should experiment a little and see if it might be to my advantage to switch. I've been using 2 DirecTivos ever since they came outand have gone through several hard drives throughout the years.

Thanks for the excellent post OP.


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## flatcurve (Sep 27, 2007)

durst said:


> The main issue I had whith cable and a stand alone Tivo was I hated the IR channel changer thing. What a piece of crap. Has this improved any, or is it still the only way to use the stand alones.
> 
> also, I have had DirecTivos for about 10 years now and never really noticed a change in the quality. Of course I notice some pixelation now and then, but that is due to a bad signal from my dish. A few weeks ago the wind loosened up the dish on my house and since then the signal goes week sometimes. Other than that, the quality has been unoticeable to me.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Durst.

Actually there is no need for another cable box and an IR blaster with the new TiVos. They connect directly to the cable feed and use the CableCARDs to receive digital content. So in that sense, yes it is _MUCH_ improved over the old stand-alone boxes. And since you're already paying Charter for internet service, you might get a break on your bill by throwing the TV on there as well. Bundled services are typically cheaper together than each service would be on it's own, at least that's how it is by me. Definitely worth looking into.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

flatcurve said:


> I tell ya, I sure wish I had FiOS in my area. It's not going to happen though. Closest FTTH offering will be AT&T's U-Verse.
> 
> FiOS is poised to blow everybody out of the water with HD though. It should make things interesting. I keep hearing 150 channels this year. I'd like to know where they're even going to get that much HD content.


FiOS' biggest drawback is availability. Yes, it blows everyone out the water but the cost of initial installation is prohibitive in rural areas and even small towns. Those that have access to it all say it's the best thing since sliced bread (what was the best thing BEFORE sliced bread???), but there's not a lot of them.

I spent the last week in CT visiting my BiL and his family and I can tell you that his Scientific Atlanta DVR from Charter would make even the most ardent TiVo fan LOVE the HR2x!! Man, that think is a POS. It looks like the project was handed to a 14-year-old with an Amiga to program!


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## flatcurve (Sep 27, 2007)

TonyTheTiger said:


> FiOS' biggest drawback is availability. Yes, it blows everyone out the water but the cost of initial installation is prohibitive in rural areas and even small towns. Those that have access to it all say it's the best thing since sliced bread (what was the best thing BEFORE sliced bread???), but there's not a lot of them.
> 
> I spent the last week in CT visiting my BiL and his family and I can tell you that his Scientific Atlanta DVR from Charter would make even the most ardent TiVo fan LOVE the HR2x!! Man, that think is a POS. It looks like the project was handed to a 14-year-old with an Amiga to program!


From what I've read on DSL reports, they're staying out of the big cities for now because of how expensive it is to install the fiber. More so than a suburb or rural community. AT&T just got into Illinois with U-verse through a back-door, since there was recent legislation that allows for state-wide franchises instead of local. The catch is that they have to roll out in the entire state within a small window of time and respond to every customer equally. So my guess is that they'll spend a few years wiring up the state before turning it on just to meet that requirement. That's a lot of lost revenue.

As for the SA DVRs, yeah those things are stinkers. My future in-laws have one. They love it, but have also never used anything else. I tried using it one night and it is just not ideal at all. Almost every other DVR I've encountered has been better. They can be upgraded with eSATA though if they're running the right software.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

I'll start this post by saying I have no experience of FiOS or U-verse, so I do NOT speak from a position of authority.

However, I've heard (or read) not so good things about U-verse. Remember it's normal copper wire to the house although it's fiber at the street.


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## flatcurve (Sep 27, 2007)

Yeah, I've heard the same too. It's technically Fiber-to-the-Node, not Fiber-to-the-Home like FiOS. I think it will still have more bandwidth than traditional cable, but it's not as good as it could be. But, it's all I'm going to see here probably.


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## Joe Siegler (May 10, 2000)

I just made the decision the other day to leave DirecTV and go back to Cable (Time Warner in Dallas). I posted about this in another thread (and asked some newbie questions, as I've been out of it with cable and "Real TiVo news" for a few years now being stuck with DirecTV's castrated feature set).

Here's the bit from my story about leaving. It's nowhere near as well written as flatcurve's story (and a ton shorter), but it's essentially the same message. "I missed TiVo".

First off, I'm in Dallas (hello DaveDFW). Technically Garland (right outside of Dallas), but I fall under the Dallas TWC banner - I know, I'm already a customer.

The primary reason I'm doing this is cost. I already have TWC's digital phone and Cable Internet services. I've had DirecTV for several years now, primarily because I wanted NFL Sunday Ticket. I stopped getting ticket a year or so ago, because of the cost of the thing vs the games we actually ended up watching. NFLST was my "tie" to DirecTV. With that not being there now, I don't have a special allegiance to DirecTV anymore. I used to be a TiVo customer, had Series 1, and Series 2 boxes, and then went DirecTiVo boxes when I first started with DirecTV, but then DirecTV bought out that stuff, pigeonholed it, and eventually killed it, so right now on DirecTV I have an R10, and a HDVR2 unit. I know both of them would need to be replaced if I went to TWC. I also called D* today and checked - my account is "clear" of the "two year commitment or big fine if you quit" stuff, so that's a non issue. The bundle package I would get from TWC for all three services vs the two I already have plus my DirecTV bill is about $50 cheaper a month. This I admit is the primary focus for all this action. A lesser reason is that I just miss "TiVo". Yeah, my DirecTiVo box has some TiVo features, but I've been essentially stuck with the same feature set for years.

I have bought a TiVoHD box for the living room, and my brother has a spare Series 2 box with lifetime on it he is giving me for use in my bedroom. I was planning on getting a TiVoHD and using it for just standard def stuff for now. I figure on going HD at some point later this year, so I figure I'd have a TiVo ready for it. The integrated solution of TiVo and receiver was the reason I went DirecTiVo in the first place a few years back. Since I'm SD only, there was also the option of doing just two Series 2 boxes for now, but if I know I'll be going HD, I might as well just get that box now instead of getting an SD for our primary TV room. Furthermore, I remember from my days with cable that I detested the cable box with a TiVo box combination. The bedroom S2 TiVo would have that, but I could live with that as not a ton of recording is done in there - the living room one though I would want the integrated deal, hence my looking at the TiVoHD box.

All things being equal, the programming is the same (save for one channel we care about), and I'm saving $50 a month. As my DirecTV bill is $60 a now, I am fairly confident they will not drop their prices that much to match my cost. 

So yeah, I'm headed back to cable. Last time I had cable, it was at an apartment complex, and it was quite bad (Optel in Dallas). From what I heard from the apt complex manager, it was one of those deals where a former manager of the apt complex did a deal with a friend to wire the place for cable, and it fairly bad service. Some of my ancient posts on this forum probably have stories about that (as I go back 8 yrs on this forum, despite not posting a ton). The way I look at it is this. DirecTV, Dish, Cable, anything can be a bad deal - there's always bad customer service agents, there's always bad installers - for everyone. No single provider is perfect. With that in mind, and with the programming being effectively (if not really) the same, it's down to cost for me plus the TiVo feature set.

Oh, and Fios is not an option for me. If it was, that's where I'd be going. But my area has not been wired, and Verizon has "no idea" when it will be. Talking to some other residents in the area who have been here a long time (I've been in this house for about 6 years now), they say that when they were built, it usually takes awhile for things like that to make it back our little neighborhood. We're kind of in a bit of a cubbyhole in terms of our location. We're literally one block from the end of the city limits.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

One of the main things keeping me with DTV is distant locals and since I already own multiple Directivos. Personally for me HD isn't a concern since until everything is in HD I won't be making the switch. If I was I would definitely be going with Fios over DTV. If Fios wasn't an option then it would be the cable company in my case Brighthouse formerly Time Warner.

The lack of Tivo is definitely one reason and the other is the DTV DVRs won't work for me. I have the R15 and it never gets used. It is only hooked up since it is leased. As long as DTV insists on a 50 pass limit on their DVRs, DTV won't be where I look in the future should my Tivo fails. I currently have 130 season passes on my bedroom Tivo and this is low since it is the summer. Usually in the fall I break 200. I shouldn't have to replace one box with 4.


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## mp11 (Jan 29, 2008)

flatcurve said:


> > the HR20 is adequate. But it's no TiVo. No dual live TV buffers and no TiVoToGo/ComeBack are the biggest sticking points IMO
> 
> 
> And lets not forget the inability to actually scan OTA channels. Neither HR20 or HR21 can do that.
> ...


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

marktd said:


> What does this mean? FiOS cannot be other than all digital - or do you mean digital source material?


FIOS currently transmits analog channels in the 1-49 slots. I haven't checked but I had been assuming that you didn't need a digital converter box to receive these channels if your TV had a standard cable tuner, which would indicate that they are somehow being transmitted in analog over the fiber. I'm not up to speed on the actual technology involved other than the fact that once they free up the bandwidth occupied by these channels they will be able to add 3-4 times as many HD channels within the same bandwidth.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

mp11 said:


> flatcurve said:
> 
> 
> > I'm on my 4th HR2* series in 8 months. The latest replacement due to hard drive failure. It's been a nightmare. I'm counting the days to cable.
> ...


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## mp11 (Jan 29, 2008)

HiDefGator said:


> mp11 said:
> 
> 
> > > I've never had a hard drive die or anything else go wrong with one of them that would cause me to send it back.
> ...


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## durst (Nov 12, 2002)

This may sound like a stupid question, but which forum here at Tivo Community has the most info on the Stand alone units? 

I can't believe there is not a forum for them alone. I'm not talking about HD units, or Directv, just the stand alones.

I just want to read some more about them. 

anyone have a link for which models are currently available or recommended? I obviously only know about the Directv units as my last stand alone was an SVR2000 that I sold five years ago.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

durst said:


> This may sound like a stupid question, but which forum here at Tivo Community has the most info on the Stand alone units?
> 
> I can't believe there is not a forum for them alone. I'm not talking about HD units, or Directv, just the stand alones.
> 
> ...


That's what the "Tivo Help Center" Forum is for ....
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=4


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## durst (Nov 12, 2002)

got it. Thankz :up:


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## Speedo123 (Aug 18, 2006)

I've just gone through many of the same "to switch or not to switch" questions regarding DirecTV to Fios. I decided to do the switch for the following reasons: First, _price_ - the Fios phone, internet, TV bundle is about $50/mo cheaper than what I'm now paying for those three services. 2) The Fios internet service is almost 10 times faster than my DSL is! 3) We get a lot of thunderstorms in Tampa and frequently loose one or both sat signals for from a few minutes to up to an hour while the storms pass. 4) DTV has steadfastidly ignored the desires of its customers who want features Tivo offers that were already built into their DirecTiVo DVRs and only need to be activated. 5) Picture quality has been steadily decreasing for its SD TV. (Don't have HD yet). 6) I'll be able to use REAL TiVo equipment if I want to! As the channel lineup is pretty much the same, that's not a factor.

So, it boils down to: getting more and faster service, better and more stable TV reception and all at a lower cost. Makes it hard not to switch.

However, while it "looks good on paper" Verizon is doing the install next week so I won't know for sure 'til I've had a chance to compare. Got my fingers crossed!

Pat


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## ebockelman (Jul 12, 2001)

flatcurve said:


> Yeah, I've heard the same too. It's technically Fiber-to-the-Node, not Fiber-to-the-Home like FiOS. I think it will still have more bandwidth than traditional cable, but it's not as good as it could be. But, it's all I'm going to see here probably.


Not as good as it could be?

I think fiber to the home is a bit overkill when you can do gigabit over copper at ridiculously cheap prices.


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## Speedo123 (Aug 18, 2006)

ebockelman said:


> Not as good as it could be?
> 
> I think fiber to the home is a bit overkill when you can do gigabit over copper at ridiculously cheap prices.


Don't know about your neighborhood, but in mine, built in the late 60s, the underground copper cabling is not even adequate to keep our phones working well. Verizon's been saying for years that there is just not enough cable pairs available and "they're doing the best they can" to keep us up and running. And that things'll get corrected when they upgrade us to fiber (they aren't running any more copper cable around here). And it's only taken ~ 10 years for this to happen.

Anyway, I can't imagine trying to do "gigabit" over cable like ours that can't now adequately handle voice transmissions! For example, my Verizon DSL connection is rated to run at 3000kbps, but the best I can achieve is around 1500kbps. IMHO what you suggest may work with relatively new copper cable, but I would bet that except for new developments, the copper to most locations is probably 10 to 100 years old and in poor condition to handle hi speed digital signals. To enable it to work, they'd probably have to run new copper cable. Why bother when they can run fiber instead and "overkill" us.


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## flatcurve (Sep 27, 2007)

Sign me up for overkill. Because in 25 years, it'll probably be inadequate again anyway...


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

flatcurve said:


> Sign me up for overkill. Because in 25 years, it'll probably be inadequate again anyway...


25????? Try 5!


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

ebockelman said:


> Not as good as it could be?
> 
> I think fiber to the home is a bit overkill when you can do gigabit over copper at ridiculously cheap prices.


Gigabit over Copper requires lots of nice little twists IE cat5e/6

The overhead bundles on your pole are barely ISDN quality for many people.
That is why they install remote terminals to reduce the distance and the inherent related noise.

Then there is all additional the noise in people's house that have even worse wiring past the demarc.

FIOS and Cable modems have so much more upside than the FTTN solutions


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## BigHat (Jan 25, 2004)

Went to FIOS in Jan and disabled my DTV for the summer. Just got an extension on that suspension until Sep.

My question to you folks is how will the NFL HD games be shown this fall? Will they be MPEG 4 feeds thus forcing me away from the DTV Tivo?
Will kill DTV for good if I need new equipment.

Thanks


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

BigHat said:


> Went to FIOS in Jan and disabled my DTV for the summer. Just got an extension on that suspension until Sep.
> 
> My question to you folks is how will the NFL HD games be shown this fall? Will they be MPEG 4 feeds thus forcing me away from the DTV Tivo?
> Will kill DTV for good if I need new equipment.
> ...


The NFL HD games will only be in MPEG 4 this year. That means it will only run on the D* in-house dvr's


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

RS4 said:


> The NFL HD games will only be in MPEG 4 this year. That means it will only run on the D* in-house dvr's


Well, that excludes me. I'll be using their "out-house" dvr.


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## Syzygy (Aug 17, 2000)

fasTLane said:


> Well, that excludes me. I'll be using their "out-house" dvr.


LOL! Never was that ancient pun more _a propos_. I mean no disrespect to TiVo, for I love all of my TiVos; but D*'s outhouse is exactly where NewsCorp stuffed TiVo two years ago.


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## Syzygy (Aug 17, 2000)

mr.unnatural said:


> ...only 17 months ago when I left DirecTV... At the time, the HR20 was still in the early stages and was a bit buggy...
> 
> In retrospect, staying with DirecTV may not have been a bad choice based on the latest reports of the HR20... If cable was my only other option I'm pretty sure I'd stay with DirecTV.


Ha! "A bit buggy?" That would be a charitable description of D*'s current offering, the HR21. In its first year, the HR20 was a *lot *buggy. And, as *innocentfreak *noted in this thread, D* insists on a 50-pass limit on their DVRs, making the HR2* a non-qualifier even if all the bugs were fixed. (I always have more than 100 SPs.)


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