# Last Ditch Help



## huntermaz (Feb 18, 2014)

So we bought a TIVO and three mini's about 6 months ago, love it worked great for the first 6 months. Then one morning we were getting bad micro blocking some if the channels with some being unwatchable(lots of RS uncorrected and Corrected errors). Moved the TIVO to the basement to remove a long cable run, was better but still not normal. 

Called Comcast and had them come out to check the signal and they said it was fine. Tried a different CableCard(I knew it worked, pulled it from a MediaCenter PC), still no go. 

Called TIVO and they sent out a replacement, same thing .

Called Comcast, sent out another tech, he replaced all the ends on the coax and ran a new drop to our house. Still no improvement. 

Signal strength is low on the channels that dont work, right around 80% and SNR is 30-32, we have an amp from Comcast that just feeds the TIVO.

We also have a Comcast DVR and a MediaCenter PC with a CableCard and they both work fine. The MediaCenter with no amp has a SNR of arounf 36-37 which is the same as what the Comcast tech says his equipment says. 

Not sure why the TIVO is so much lower. Just at my wits end, don't know what to do or how to even get it fixed. Could the replacement TIVO be bad also?? Or is it really a Comcast problem? At this point it would have to be a main line or something but with the other stuff working not sure I could Convence Comcast of that.

Anyone have any suggestions? We have spent a bunch of money and if I can't get it working soon I am going to have to sell it all and get something else.


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## elborak (Jul 15, 2014)

It's not 100% clear from your description, but have you already tried moving the TiVo to the location of the Comcast DVR to confirm that you're seeing different SNR with the exact same cabling?


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## huntermaz (Feb 18, 2014)

Yes I have. Have gone to the point of connect the feed that comes into the house directly to the TIVO,(no splitters or other equipment hooked up) and still doesn't work.


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## huntermaz (Feb 18, 2014)

Also called TIVO and they are zero help at this point, all they say is it is Comcast.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

comparing SNR across different devices does not really mean much. They each have an algorithm to measure.

it seems meaningful that for the Tivo the SNRs are different for different channels. Do you see that on the other devices at the same location? It does seem like a comcast thing to me.

Also, have you tried it at the service entrance, before any splits and before the modem? That would help show if the internal wiring could be an issue.


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## huntermaz (Feb 18, 2014)

jrtroo said:


> it seems meaningful that for the Tivo the SNRs are different for different channels. Do you see that on the other devices at the same location? It does seem like a comcast thing to me.
> 
> Also, have you tried it at the service entrance, before any splits and before the modem? That would help show if the internal wiring could be an issue.


Not sure what you mean? Check SNR on different channels on the tivo to see if they are different?

Yes I have tried where it enters the house.


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## DeltaOne (Sep 29, 2013)

Can you try the TiVo at a close-by house of a neighbor or friend? Would rule out your drop/wiring as the source of the problem.


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## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

I'm really thinking it's a problem with Comcast. I've had similar problems with getting high uncorrected errors and bits of recordings missing. I've had cards swapped out and new cables run and regional techs out and the issue remained until a few months ago when it seems to have cleared itself up.


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## FitzAusTex (May 7, 2014)

I'm having same macroblocking issue with Time Warner. It is persistent, but sporadic. Twc dropped a new line to my house, replaced cable card and tuning adapter, and I've actually replaced my Roamio for a non related issue. On Wednesday yet another tech ground out some voltage he wasn't happy with. Problem persists. My signals are generally 90 to 92. Really disappointed, but am living with it for now.


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## huntermaz (Feb 18, 2014)

There are too many channels that dont work it live with it for me.


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## FitzAusTex (May 7, 2014)

Moved tivo to bedroom and have identical issues there, so if it is the inwall coax, it's happening on two separate runs. The worst three channels all happen to be on the same 603000 khz, but another bad channel is on 717000 khz. It rarely, if ever, happens on channels I watch under 350000 khz, if that info is useful to anyone in helping pinpoint the cause.


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## huntermaz (Feb 18, 2014)

Took the TIVO to a friends house in a different subdivision about 2 miles away and the TIVO works perfectly. Ugh


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## NJ Webel (Dec 8, 2004)

huntermaz said:


> Took the TIVO to a friends house in a different subdivision about 2 miles away and the TIVO works perfectly. Ugh


While it stinks that you are having the problem, at least now you have eliminated the TiVo as the issue, which leaves either a signal or a wiring issue.

Since you've tried your TiVo at your home's headend, both of those remaining potential root causes would be at the feet of Comcast, so they are who you need to deal with, unfortunately.


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## huntermaz (Feb 18, 2014)

I hooked the new drop directly to the Tivo at my house and it still doesn't work. Which to me would mean that there is a main line/feed problem. I feel my chance to get Comcast to fix that is about zero.


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## Andrewp75 (Aug 4, 2004)

contact comcast here

https://twitter.com/comcastcares

it works. surprisingly


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## huntermaz (Feb 18, 2014)

Already did that, didn't work


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

huntermaz said:


> Already did that, didn't work


If you truly feel that you have exhausted every resort available to you via your local Comcast support network, then I recommend you try communicating your problem to Tom Karinshak, Senior Vice President of Customer Experience at Comcast. In my experience (back in 2012 when Rick Germano was in this corporate position) this has been an effective way to bypass or jump-start the lower-level support chain for irksome problems.

You can send Tom an e-mail by clicking on the "Send Tom Feedback" hyperlink at the bottom of this webpage. Good luck and keep us posting on your issue.


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## huntermaz (Feb 18, 2014)

Called a second level support number that I got from TIVO. Got a really good rep, also helped that I said if they can't getting working we are moving to dish. 

He has some ideas and is contacting local support. We will see if that will bring a fix.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

huntermaz said:


> Called a second level support number that I got from TIVO. Got a really good rep, also helped that I said if they can't getting working we are moving to dish.
> 
> He has some ideas and is contacting local support. We will see if that will bring a fix.


Well, that's what I meant by exhausting local support resources. You definitely should make at least one stab at someone beyond first-level CS before taking the issue to the corporate level.

HOWEVER, given the frustration you have endured to this point, I think you would be justified in writing to Tom anyway. If you so do, make sure to detail all the steps you have taken and the actions--and lack of resolution--in response from Comcast. Bring him up to date on where the issue stands at present based on your last contact with level-two support. Include the names (you should always get the names of your contacts and keep a record of what is said) of those to whom you spoke. As they say, it couldn't hurt and, if nothing else, you might be pleasantly surprised at what you get in return: the higher the echelon the nicer the free "goodies" these folks are authorized to dole out. I've gotten one year of free HBO/SHO in addition to service rebates this way. In the end it's a win/win for Comcast if they can turn a disgruntled customer into a loyal customer--and one prone to continue the promotional services for a cost.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

huntermaz said:


> Called a second level support number that I got from TIVO. Got a really good rep, also helped that I said if they can't getting working we are moving to dish.
> 
> He has some ideas and is contacting local support. We will see if that will bring a fix.


If your TiVo works just fine at someone else's house, then technically this isn't TiVo's problem, it's Comcast that's screwing you. But maybe they know somebody over there that can light a fire under the local Comcast office.

Also, check with your nearest neighbors and see if anyone else is having problems with Comcast, and don't forget that Comcast only gets to do business there because a local, elected (and likely wanting to be re-elected) government allows them to, so that's another avenue for applying pressure.


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## Andrewp75 (Aug 4, 2004)

Agreed, you may have a local cable commission that you can email to log a complaint. Did that when I lived in Chicago and it worked wonders


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## DeltaOne (Sep 29, 2013)

huntermaz said:


> I hooked the new drop directly to the Tivo at my house and it still doesn't work. Which to me would mean that there is a main line/feed problem. I feel my chance to get Comcast to fix that is about zero.


Post a note on the Xfinity forum. It's here: http://forums.comcast.com/t5/XfinityTV-and-Equipment/bd-p/CTV_Equip

Post it to ComcastTeds. There's a thread dealing with CableCard firmware you could use, or start a new thread. ComcastTeds is good at helping folks out.


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## FitzAusTex (May 7, 2014)

The OP stated that they are having problems when signal strength is in the 80% range. I've been having problems on TWC with signals at 92. Tried adding splitters this weekend one at a time (added 4) to drop the signal to 80 - 82, and have eliminated the problem. Am continuing to monitor on the worst channels, but so far so good. Doesn't help the OP, but thought I'd add my situation to the discussion. Apparently getting the signal just right is more important than I realized, and my gut reaction that the signal should be 100 was probably wrong. Since tivo recommends an SNR in the 32-35 range, shouldn't they make that 100%, to avoid confusion?


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

What kind of tuners do you have on your Media PC?
How is the Amp wired from the entry to the Tivo?
Are the Mini's connected via Ethernet or MoCA?
Do you have a cable modem at this household? Take a look at the SNR, error rate, and which freq it chose.
What kind of Roamio?


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## huntermaz (Feb 18, 2014)

telemark said:


> What kind of tuners do you have on your Media PC?
> How is the Amp wired from the entry to the Tivo?
> Are the Mini's connected via Ethernet or MoCA?
> Do you have a cable modem at this household? Take a look at the SNR, error rate, and which freq it chose.
> What kind of Roamio?


I have a Ceton infinitv 4

Feed comes into the house and into a 4 way splitter, then to a 15db powered AMP and then into the TIVO.

Yes we have a cable modem, comcast supplied but when I login into it I don't see and diga info.

We have a Roamio PRO.


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

How many ports does the Amp have? Maybe it has a model number on it?

You might want to rearrange that wiring later, the AMP should ideally be the first or second thing and before the splitters. Do you have a quality 2 way splitter on hand?

I would try a few things.
A) Point of Entry, to (long) normal wiring, to Tivo
B) Point of Entry, to Amp, to (long) normal wiring, to Tivo
C) Point of Entry, to Amp, to (long) normal wiring, to Ceton

Between A and B, you're looking for signal improvement. If the signal quality (# of errors) is not improved, then the Amp is questionable.

Between B and C, take a couple "good" channels and a couple "bad" channels.
Note the measurements on those channels on the Tivo.
Note the measurements on those channels on the Ceton.

There should a similar drop from Good to Bad on the Ceton as on the Tivo.
If the Tivo instead says signals are bad that are not actually weaker, suspect the Tivo hardware.

The cable line around where it enters the house should be grounded. A bad ground might allow noise to enter, and some types of noise will interfere with signal decoding but not show up in SNR.


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## huntermaz (Feb 18, 2014)

telemark said:


> How many ports does the Amp have? Maybe it has a model number on it?
> 
> You might want to rearrange that wiring later, the AMP should ideally be the first or second thing and before the splitters. Do you have a quality 2 way splitter on hand?
> 
> ...


This is the AMp we have
http://www.amazon.com/Electroline-EDA-2100-Booster-Amplifier-Warranty/dp/B000F3RKJ6

But we have tried all kind of combos to get the TIVO working and have had no luck at our house.

I dont think it is the TIVO, this is the second unit and we took it to someone else's house last weekend and it works great there.

I was contacted by a "Service Recovery Specialist" last night, she is goign to contact the local supervisor to see what the next course of action is on Comcast's part. I will update when I know more.


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## dalabera (Jan 10, 2013)

huntermaz said:


> This is the AMp we have
> http://www.amazon.com/Electroline-EDA-2100-Booster-Amplifier-Warranty/dp/B000F3RKJ6


I would remove it for testing it could be bad... I had an issue last year with Comcast almost similar, but was not using TiVo yet, anyway a technician came with some special equipment and found noise in the line. He replaced all the outlets and when he got to the last one he found it very loose. The TV was in a stand that my kids used a lot and probably they moved it too often.
To finish the story he replaced the cable plug and the noise went away.

Suggestion: Go to all your outlets and tight them up. See if that works. Good Luck.


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## huntermaz (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks for the sugestion but we have tried with and without the amp and have even connected the feed that comes into the house directly into the TIVO, which would take house wiring out of the mix. And still no luck.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Any coax nipple can wear out internally, even the ones on TiVos. I've seen a few recent threads where people pulled all their hair out, only to find the "barrel" connector that went through a wall-plate was bad. One tiny part can screw everything up. Simply tightening the outside nut doesn't insure a good internal connection. While the outside is important, the internal is a lot more important, and often overlooked.

I've found plenty of people using cheap, thin, RG59 for their short jumper wires, and the insides of the coax ports had been used with RG-6 long enough that the RG59 won't work. It's inadequate for the digital age, and should not be used, as it's not rated adequately.

A proper coax end should have enough of the center conductor sticking out, past the nut, so you can feel it engage (slight friction) as you slide it in. No friction felt when inserting is a dead giveaway that either the conductor is too short, or the internal connector is stretched-out/fatigued/broken.

Modern RG6 cables are stiff to work with, and the center conductor won't want to move if you try to bend it with a fingertip (it's likely to go into your finger and sting you, which is why techs call the ends "stingers").


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## huntermaz (Feb 18, 2014)

All ends from the outside "box" to everything in the house has been replaced by Comcast. Also it is all RG-6 no RG59.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

huntermaz said:


> All ends from the outside "box" to everything in the house has been replaced by Comcast. Also it is all RG-6 no RG59.


I'm talking about the nipples the ends screw onto. They replaced every coax nipple, even on your TiVo? That's unprecedented (a nice way of saying you aren't getting it, at all).


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## huntermaz (Feb 18, 2014)

nooneuknow said:


> I'm talking about the nipples the ends screw onto. They replaced every coax nipple, even on your TiVo? That's unprecedented (a nice way of saying you aren't getting it, at all).


I do appreciate the help and not to be an ass but reading is fundamental, in the first post I said the TIVO was replaced. So technically the nipple was replaced. Also to say again, the feed into the house was connected directly to the original TIVO and the replacement TIVO with no improvement. Grounding block was also replaced and is grounded.

And the TIVO works at another house, so I would say it's not the TIVO.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

huntermaz said:


> I do appreciate the help and not to be an ass but reading is fundamental, in the first post I said the TIVO was replaced. So technically the nipple was replaced. Also to say again, the feed into the house was connected directly to the original TIVO and the replacement TIVO with no imporvement. Grounding block was also replaced and is grounded.
> 
> And the TIVO works at another house, so I would say it's not the TIVO.


OK. It's obviously not the TiVo. I stayed out of this thread for a reason, but had subbed to it. I'm working multiple threads, many cable problems, and can't always take the time to go back to the origin of every single thread. I forgot I wasn't already actively in this one.

Forget I even tried. I should have just unsubbed when I knew the problem was not your TiVo, and was only waiting to see what it took to get your joke of a cable provider to do what they are supposed to do. Sorry.


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## huntermaz (Feb 18, 2014)

So I have discovered that the channels that we have the most trouble with are all in the frequency range of below 200,000. For the most part everything above that works. Did have a few hours Saturday and Sunday where all the channels worked, but now we have some more channels that aren't working.


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## huntermaz (Feb 18, 2014)

So today I went out and bought a base Tivo Roamio and hooked it up and...........it works. My Pro still doesn't work, does anyone know if the tuners are the same in the Roamio base and Pro? I know one has 4 tuners and the other has 6. Can't believe all the messing around I have been doing the replacement tivo is broke. Did discover that the Pro will work at first for 3-7 minutes then stop, which would explain why it worked when I brought it to someone else's house. Didn't test it long there.


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## elborak (Jul 15, 2014)

huntermaz said:


> Did discover that the Pro will work at first for 3-7 minutes then stop, which would explain why it worked when I brought it to someone else's house. Didn't test it long there.


That's very interesting. Any chance it's a heat issue?


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## huntermaz (Feb 18, 2014)

elborak said:


> That's very interesting. Any chance it's a heat issue?


I don't think so. It is in the basement right now and is in open air. And when I say it stops working it is still just channels that have a frequency of under 200,000.

Same channel on the new TiVo has a signal strength of 90% and a SNR of 36, on the original one it is a signal strength of 74% and a SNR of 29. One is a base model Roamio and the other is a Pro but can't see that would make a difference. And the base model has and extra splitter in the mix. If I hook it up to the same feed as the Pro it get 92% and 37.


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## squint (Jun 15, 2008)

Aiming a small desktop fan at one of my S3's processor made its audio glitches go away.

TiVos might actually run hotter with their covers off since the fan is no longer drawing air across the motherboard. It's in effect, short-circuited with the cover off.

The fan made a huge difference in the reported temperature whereas removing the cover did not and may have actually increased the temperature slightly.


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## huntermaz (Feb 18, 2014)

Rather not take it apart and put a fan on it. TiVo is going to send out a replacement. we will see how that goes.


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## huntermaz (Feb 18, 2014)

Just to follow up, received the replacement TiVO yesterday. Hooked it up and it works great. All channels work and have 98-100% signal strength and SNR in the high 30's. Better that it has ever been. 

Looking back on the whole thing I am thinking it must of been a combo of two defective TiVo's and some changes Comcast has made. 

I have been able to remove the Comcast amp from my house. Wondering if that could of taken out the tuner's on the two TiVO's. 

Just glad to have it all working again.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

huntermaz said:


> Just to follow up, received the replacement TiVO yesterday. Hooked it up and it works great. All channels work and have 98-100% signal strength and SNR in the high 30's. Better that it has ever been.
> 
> Looking back on the whole thing I am thinking it must of been a combo of two defective TiVo's and some changes Comcast has made.
> 
> ...


If all channels are at 98-100 (100 could mean 200 or higher, but the scale stops at 100), and SNR greater than 35 (which is not a true SNR reading) *WITHOUT the amp*, it is entirely possible you did damage the tuners on the prior two units, by having the amp in use.

It has happened to others before, and also with different generations and models of TiVos as well. TiVo has voided the warranty, in a few cases. I'll spare the details, other than suggesting you not give TiVo any reasons to look at things more closely.

Consider yourself lucky (to not have had your warranty voided). Good luck. It's always good to hear when drop-amps get removed, as they are band-aids, rather than what the provider should do to get you to the signal you need.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

huntermaz said:


> I have been able to remove the Comcast amp from my house. Wondering if that could of taken out the tuner's on the two TiVO's.


How were you powering it? Those amps can either be powered by a dedicated line to the power input or have power fed to them up the main line from a power inserter. If you were using an inserter and your splitter was the type that passes DC then it's possible it damaged the tuner. I did this years ago with a RadioShack amp and an old RCA TV. I didn't understand how the power worked at the time and was inserting it before the splitter and sending the DC current right into the TV. Took a couple months but it finally blew out the tuner in the TV.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Dan203 said:


> How were you powering it? Those amps can either be powered by a dedicated line to the power input or have power fed to them up the main line from a power inserter. If you were using an inserter and your splitter was the type that passes DC then it's possible it damaged the tuner. I did this years ago with a RadioShack amp and an old RCA TV. I didn't understand how the power worked at the time and was inserting it before the splitter and sending the DC current right into the TV. Took a couple months but it finally blew out the tuner in the TV.


This is another reason I advise against using things made for satellite, for CATV use. Suppose you used a satellite splitter, on the out port of a satellite amp, and didn't remember that there's usually at least one port per satellite splitter that has a DC power pass-through, and used that one. You have installed a splitter, but would end up with the same result, since the end device was placed on a power-passing port.

Sticking with CATV equipment usually takes out most instances of this end result being possible. It's not 100% fool-proof, but the odds are more in your favor.


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## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

I agree, it always leads to more headaches then solutions. :up:


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

One thing that I'd mention here is that clearly when everyone thought "it's not the Tivo" - they turned out to be mistaken. I was waiting for the thread to play out to see, but remember that just because a Tivo works at one location and not another does not exclude the Tivo from being the issue. It is entirely possible that the signal at both locations is slightly different - but both signals well within normal design specifications - and the Tivo for some reason cannot handle the range of variation that it should. It has most certainly happened before, and frankly the entire signal strength issue on FiOS is IMHO a clear example of overly sensitive Tivo architecture not being capable of handling "normal" signals. 

Again - don't expect everyone to agree, but....


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

I started out with a "lurk and see" feeling, too. I'm usually not like that. I tend to jump right in, or not subscribe to a thread.

Then, I innocently forgot I wasn't actively participating, offered some advice, and got thanked by getting my head bit off. So, back to the shadows I went...

I agree that TiVo has always been like a product that you have to build the signal around, than work with the signal you have. I (sometimes) even empathize with the frustration of cable techs, who say the signal is "within acceptable range", but have to deal with me saying it's not good enough for my TiVos.

In the end, I don't see this thread as proving much of anything, one way, or the other. I do see it as an example of making assumptions, then jumping to conclusions, and dismissing everything that goes against them.

I don't see anything posted that comes close to explaining what the signal was like (in measurements that are useful), before Comcast made the changes they made, or details, more than an amp was removed. The lack of information, and lack of details, makes this a "who knows what the deal really was?" conclusion, IMO.

There's always a way to check the signal, to get some idea of what's what. The cable modem readings, before and after each step of the way, would have been helpful. We don't even have those here. If they were actually noted, I'm sure they would have been posted. If I wouldn't have been snapped at, I would have asked about them.

Any new data added, to backfill what is missing, I would be suspect of. If people want to argue what caused what, and what was at fault, based on the huge amount of missing information, I can't stop them. But, at least I can choose to not participate in arguing about it, based on facts not in evidence.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

Yes, I agree. I wasn't pointing to anything about root cause or blame here either. Just that my antenna went up immediately when I saw the comment that because the Tivo worked at a different home but not where the OP was, it could not be the Tivo. That test would have provided more useful data had the signal on respective channels been measured at the time of the test for each location.

I try not to involve the Fios techs, as it is perfectly reasonable to expect that signal strength for example - even at the same location - may vary over time - so long as that variation is always within design parameters. Unfortunately, Tivos are far far more sensitive to signal strength than Verizon equipment, and it seems as though I'm constantly swapping out attenuators just to minimize pixilation. However, on the free Verizon DVR I have had since 2007, I have never ever experienced this. It is totally unreasonable for Tivo to expect Verizon to pick up the support tab for their restricted architecture, so they should be far more helpful IMHO.

I also agree that the OP was a bit snarky at you trying to help. Add to that the entire amp thing, and I am NOT a proponent of using an amp inline with Fios prior to distribution to devices. The Fios signal is already so hot, I believe the benefits are blown away by the drawbacks. Back when I had Comcast/Adelphia or Dish, I also used large amps but no more with Verizon - and it's very unlikely that folks have more distribution or longer runs than some that I have. And even with those long runs, my signal is STILL too hot - for the Tivos.


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## huntermaz (Feb 18, 2014)

Sorry nooneuknow if you feel I "bit your head off" after reading &#8220;you aren't getting it, at all&#8221; I was just annoyed by your tone. I do appreciate the attempt you made to help, and I was just getting frustrated by the whole ordeal and unfairly took it out on you. 
I did measure signals thru out this process, I have an entire spreadsheet of them. When I tried to make reference to the signal I was seeing on different devices I was quickly shoot down that you can&#8217;t compare signal levels on different devices. Comcast always stated that they read the SNR at 39-40 coming into the house, after splitters MediaCenter and a Comcast box showed and around 35-36. Didn&#8217;t check the cable modem until late in the game because I didn&#8217;t know that you could. The Tivo would show SNR at 29-30 on channels that had a frequency of 200,000 and lower and 34-25 above 200,000. 
The amp(power by plugging it into a power supply) was installed 4+ years ago by Comcast to get original ATI cablecard tuners to work. And when I first installed the TiVo in February signal strength was mid to upper 80 and snr was around 35, so I thought I was good to go. 
I wasn&#8217;t till I started using MediaCenter to really look at the signal that I had a better understanding of it. MediaCenter shows dbmv, I was able to see the effects of the AMP to dbmv, it really never moved the SNR. With that I was able to move the dbmv from -11 to +10 and everywhere in between. After adjusting dbmv all over and never seeing a change on the Tivo, I went back at the problem differently. At the end of the day it took buying another Tivo to test to realize that the replacement Tivo from Tivo was just broken.


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