# Audio out of sync problems on TivoHD



## StriderWA (Aug 13, 2007)

The scoop:

Comcast - Snohomish County, WA, 2 Motorola S-cards

When viewing recorded HD content, I'm getting audio sync problems (the video is a few seconds behind). This only seems to happen with HD content...

Has anyone else experienced audio sync issues like this? I didn't see a thread for this, just the squelching sound during any system beeps (which I still get)

I noticed this during 30 Rock, my THD is connected to my Vizio 37" LCD via HDMI...


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

StriderWA said:


> The scoop:
> 
> Comcast - Snohomish County, WA, 2 Motorola S-cards
> 
> ...


Happened to us once or twice. Try rebooting both your TV and TiVo (unplug both for about 15 seconds; plug your TV and then TiVo back in). That will reintroduce the HDMI "handshake" between TiVo and your TV.

If that doesn't fix it try doing the same thing with a new HDMI cable...or temporarily run composite audio/video (RCA yellow and L/R out) from TiVo to your TV. If everything is good either way you may have a bad HDMI cable.


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## ConfusedBob (Aug 5, 2007)

I just had a similar problem last night watching HD channel on my new S3 over Verizon FioS. I have not tried restarting but will do if it happens again.


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## mauschein (Aug 18, 2007)

I have audio sync problems as well. I have cablevision with SA cards. For me the problems seem to show up only on few channels (startzhd, and world cinema). I rebooted the system but I still get occasional recordings out of sync. I am fairly confident my cables are ok (since I swapped them and tried different connections) Since it does not happen with all the channels, my guess is that the source is either "bad" or "incompatible" with tivo...


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

TNT-HD is known to be out of sync periodically, regardless of provider.

Since in your case, the problem is NBC-HD, you may want to tune the OTA channel (if you have an antenna) to confirm whether the problem is specific to your NBC feed. It is common for affiliates to fudge their audio sync while upgrading, replacing, or reconfiguring their broadcast equipment. Usually, affilates fix the problems within a few days as people call and complain.


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## astrodonkey (Dec 19, 2004)

I'm in Woodinville, just down the road from you. Every single show I've watched in HD has audio sync problems. I am using component video (no HDMI). It is really annoying, pisses me off to no end.


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## stormkeeper (Oct 16, 2007)

I also have a S3 with HDMI and my audio is also out of sync on my HD channels. This issue started AFTER the software upgrade. I've tried resetting both the TV and S3. Then just the S3.

Nothing will correct it. I know the HDMI cable is good, I've tried others. I'm thinking something with the software upgrade is causing it.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Has anyone pinned down the syncing problems? They're showing up on my TiVo HD. Very irritating.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

As others have mentioned, there is sometimes (often?) a source-bias to these issues. If you're having audio synch problems on every channel, then I'd look to your audio system and figure your cabling is part of the problem. Otherwise, figure that the problem is at the source, and you need an audio system that will provide you the ability to adjust audio synch on the fly. The TiVo, itself, is not likely the source of audio synch problems, and therefore there is nothing in the device to "adjust" audio synch.


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## rkemmer (Nov 7, 2007)

Hi,

I have a new TIVO HD box which exhibits a picture/sound sync. problem on occasion.

I've only observed it during playback of previously recorded HD programs. It goes like this:

- At some point in the playback, the picture seems to stutter.
- Then there is a very noticable delay in the audio. You see lips move and then about a second later, you hear the word.
- Pressing the "instant Replay" button on the remote brings the picture and sound back into sync.

I can reproduce the problem by rewinding to before the point of difficulty and then letting it play. The same stutter and delay shows up at the same place in the recording. I've only done this once, but will try again the next time I get the problem.

I've called Tivo about this and they suggested re-booting the box. This didn't solve the problem as I still get the occasional problem. 

I'll be getting back to them after I see if this occurs on either SD TV or live broadcasts. (Which, to date, I haven't observed.)

I'm using Scientific Atlanta cable cards with Comcast.

Anybody else have a similar experience?

Additional Information:

I have a Sharp Aquos LCD TV and use HDMI for the feed from TIVO. My audio comes from the Optical output of the TV into a Pioneer tuner/amp.


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## bktraveler (Nov 7, 2007)

I am having issues with HD playback. I noticed it last night when I was watching a recording of Carpoolers. For the first 5 min of playback the sound is in sync with everyones lips. Then like others have noticed there is a little glitch with the audio and video that happens right before the sound/lips go out of sync. Then as the recording plays on the sync starts getting worse. I will mess around with it tonight and post my findings.

Comcast 2x Scards 
Tivo HD 
Toshiba 32" Regza


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## JohnBrowning (Jul 15, 2004)

This is typically a source problem.


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## BrianAZ (Aug 13, 2007)

bktraveler said:


> I am having issues with HD playback. I noticed it last night when I was watching a recording of Carpoolers. For the first 5 min of playback the sound is in sync with everyones lips. Then like others have noticed there is a little glitch with the audio and video that happens right before the sound/lips go out of sync. Then as the recording plays on the sync starts getting worse. I will mess around with it tonight and post my findings.
> 
> Comcast 2x Scards
> Tivo HD
> Toshiba 32" Regza


I just started having this issue a few days ago. Same as others have indicated, a stutter, then the audio/video is out of sync... the video appears to continue to stutter. FF/RW or replay fixes temporarily.. until it happens again. Seems to happen on various channels, HD and SD.


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## rkemmer (Nov 7, 2007)

JohnBrowing states: "This is typically a source problem."

Can you expand on this and point to who/what may be at fault and suggest any way to fix it?

Thanks,

Dick


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## ErictheHank (Jul 27, 2004)

rkemmer said:


> Hi,
> I have a Sharp Aquos LCD TV and use HDMI for the feed from TIVO. My audio comes from the Optical output of the TV into a Pioneer tuner/amp.


Are you sitting in my living room right now? I have the EXACT same setup including brands and methods of hookup. Unfortunately hitting instant replay does not resync the audio for me so I have a feeling that it is a source issue for me although I have no way of saying for sure.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

If you download the recording to your PC, do you see the A/V sync issue there? If so, that would confirm that it was a problem with the original broadcast (or the result of something your cable company did).


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## BrianAZ (Aug 13, 2007)

bkdtv said:


> If you download the recording to your PC, do you see the A/V sync issue there? If so, that would confirm that it was a problem with the original broadcast (or the result of something your cable company did).


What if something on the Tivo took a fine broadcast and in the process of writing it to the disk or some potential processing (too ignorant here to provide specifics), introduced the errors/stuttering into the recording? Is that not possible for some reason?


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## danorton (Dec 4, 2004)

I'm seeing this on one channel only and only on HD programming on that channel.

The video lags the audio by about 500 msecs on KLRUDT, but works fine on other local HD channels with HD programming.

If I view the channel directly from my TV's antenna, the audio and video are fine.

This seems to be a bug with the way HD TiVo decodes certain audio streams.

(See attached diagram.)


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## phanophish (Nov 14, 2007)

I'm having the same issue on some HD channels, but not all.. Cox cable. My problem is most prominent on my HD feed of local ABC affiliate. HD series 3 Tivo, connected via HDMI to Television and via optical for audio to my Marantz receiver. Typically a 500-1000ms differential between audio and video. I also get occasional dropouts where audio goes away completely for about 3-5 seconds. Not on all channels and does seem to be worse on recorded programs rather than watching live.

Has anyone ever come up with a consistent solution or had Tivo confirm a bug?


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## rkemmer (Nov 7, 2007)

Hi, 

Just thought I'd let you know that I haven't had the loss of sync. problem since my last post on 11/07.

Version 9.2a software downloaded yesterday. Still hoping the problem has gone away. Or better yet, been fixed...

Dick


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## drjlb (Feb 2, 2004)

I have a similar issue on my S3, but not quite the same. I have a video stutter and then pause, but the audio continues normally. After a couple of seconds, the video runs in what looks like fast forward until it syncs back up with the audio. If I rewind past the problem, it is always reproducible at the same spot. Comcast, SA CCs, Component connections, only in HD. Two things happened right before this began: 9.2 and my hooking up a my dvr expander. Can't believe it's the external HD. Anyone else got this flavor of the problem?


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

drjlb said:


> I have a similar issue on my S3, but not quite the same. I have a video stutter and then pause, but the audio continues normally. After a couple of seconds, the video runs in what looks like fast forward until it syncs back up with the audio. If I rewind past the problem, it is always reproducible at the same spot. Comcast, SA CCs, Component connections, only in HD. Two things happened right before this began: 9.2 and my hooking up a my dvr expander. Can't believe it's the external HD. Anyone else got this flavor of the problem?


 We (and several others on this thread) have seen the same thing. We were upgraded from 9.2.j to 9.2a last week and I don't believe I've seen it on any programs recorded since the latest upgrade...but I have seen it on programs recorded with the earlier software version. So there may be a distinction between what TiVo does with "older" recordings and what it is currently doing. YMMV


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## DaBuzz (May 31, 2001)

I saw this same problem last night while watching a recorded copy of WECWreckage from VS. HD. Rewinding and watching the content again fixed the problem for me so it's unclear to me how this can be a source issue when it can be fixed by rewinding and rewatching the content. If the source was the problem with the sync, wouldn't the issue reproduce each time the content was watched?

It's not just HD for me either, earlier today I was watching Fox News and the live feed started the stuttering video and the audio got out of sync by about 5 seconds. Pausing then pressing play again brought the audio back into sync (you could actually hear the audio running ~2x as fast as it caught up with the video). Again this doesn't seem to be a source issue to me since you're able to "fix" it via the Tivo controls.


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## robrynders (May 12, 2007)

I too have the picture stuttering/freezing/audio out of sync issue with the TivoHD. My software version is 9.2a. I am on Cox with SA cable cards. Pausing then restarting or changing the channel or going to the tivo menu then back seems to solve the problem until it does it again a couple minutes later. Happens on digital and HD channels. I thought creating a buffer by pausing the show for a minute might help, however, it just speeds up until the show is in real time and the picture stutters/freezes then goes back out of sync. It's like it knows it is messing with my mind!


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

How is your TiVo hooked up to speakers? (Do you have an amp? or are you passing sound through to your television via HDMI? etc....)


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## vinman (Sep 21, 2002)

ya im getting this same issue, on COX in Ariz. It happens all the time, im watching espn right now and it happens, goes like its in slowmo sound is out of sync, if you do rew and then ff it goes away but seems to happen again doesnt seem to matter what channel i try. Anyone have any ideas? i rebooted the box as well. 

thx
Vinman


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## phxbofh (Nov 23, 2007)

The Discovery channel on COX in AZ does this continuously to me. I noticed that my recorded shows on Discovery will exhibit the same problem. Last night I had to have COX hit my cards again as I lost a few channels. After 30 minutes the channels returned but COX is coming out Saturday to hopefully replace the cards with a M card. My Tivo is running 9.2a with no modifications with 2 SA cable cards.


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## BrianAZ (Aug 13, 2007)

phxbofh said:


> The Discovery channel on COX in AZ does this continuously to me. I noticed that my recorded shows on Discovery will exhibit the same problem. Last night I had to have COX hit my cards again as I lost a few channels. After 30 minutes the channels returned but COX is coming out Saturday to hopefully replace the cards with a M card. My Tivo is running 9.2a with no modifications with 2 SA cable cards.


I'm also Cox-Phoenix and experienced the issue during Dirty Jobs (Discovery)and also FoxNews. Seemed to happen frequently for a few days out of the blue but not really since then. Hitting the replay button seems to correct it UNLESS I do it too quickly in which case it will hit the spot where it began to get messed up and do it again.


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## meridian (Jan 23, 2003)

Having the same problem but with a different spin -- my HDTV is NOT HDMI but component and the audio is not digital either.

Had this happen for the first time watching UGLY BETTY last night. The fact that I could rewind and get the audio and video back in sync suggests strongly to me that this is neither a digital TV problem nor a source problem but in fact a TiVo problem (TiVo HD 9.2a, Time Warner cable with SA M-cable card in my case)


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## phxbofh (Nov 23, 2007)

I called TiVo and their explanation was my amp and my cable cards are at fault. I called the installer who installed my cards and found out that a hand full of channels are having this issue with a variety of boxes. He had the firmware updates resent to my cards to see if it would help. So far nothing positive but knowing this issue is not isolated to just TiVos is good to know.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

You're not using a new Onkyo receiver are you? A lot of people have reported audio delays with those receivers.


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## phxbofh (Nov 23, 2007)

Cox replaced my two SA cards with one SA M card and the problems have gone away.


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## vinman (Sep 21, 2002)

phxbofh said:


> Cox replaced my two SA cards with one SA M card and the problems have gone away.


I have 2 HD tivos that have this same weird issue. called cox and told them to come out and replace those old cards with the newer dual channel ones

they are coming wendsday so i hope that fixes it

-Vinman


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## Sandlapper (Oct 26, 2003)

Just wanted to chime in that I get it as well. Sometimes it gets so bad it looks like the people on the screen are doing the robot or something! Changing the channel and back again fixes it for a while.


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## tatvtb (Dec 1, 2007)

I am having the same issues with out of sync video/audio, while watching video live or pre-recorded. The video will speed up a bit and then stutter, then resume with the audio out of sync. Pausing the video will re-sync. I can reproduce when I rewind to the problem spot in the recording. The problem occurs quite often while watching SD and HD. 

It makes watching Tivo very unpleasant.

The problem began after the update to 9.2a. Tivo tells me that the problem is solved by 9.2b. Can anyone comment on this? Have you seen this problem resolved by this latest update?

Tivo says they can't force the update to my box, so they are sending me a new one. I'll have to call the cable company to switch the cards. Seems like a lot of trouble to fix a software problem.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

tatvtb said:


> I am having the same issues with out of sync video/audio, while watching video live or pre-recorded. The video will speed up a bit and then stutter, then resume with the audio out of sync. Pausing the video will re-sync. I can reproduce when I rewind to the problem spot in the recording. The problem occurs quite often while watching SD and HD.
> 
> It makes watching Tivo very unpleasant.
> 
> ...


AFAIK, v9.2b is not in the wild yet. TiVo is just now pushing 9.1a to Series2's.

Guess that gives the rest of us Series3 and TiVo HD owners something to look forward to. Our TiVo Series3 is working quite well now w/v9.2a...hope the next upgrade doesn't mess anything up for us.


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## Mark in Tempe (Dec 8, 2007)

All the attention that the unsychronized lip-sync issue is getting seems to be ignoring one important piece of information. Many of us who have our hi-def tv's connected to over-the-air rooftop antennaes are also having the problem. I recently bought a 50-inch Panasonic plasma and my sister recently bought a 42-inch Panasonic plasma, and we both have intermittent, but severe, sync issues here in metropolitan Phx. Each of us is running co-axial cable straight from the antennae through our VCR connections and on into the TVs. So severe is the problem that the distraction renders some programming unwatchable. I don't understand how this issue has escaped attention in the media and popular consumer magazines.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Well, even when I notice the problem I don't really _notice_ the problem. It is often very subtle, and something that I'm often able to readily ignore.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Mark in Tempe said:


> All the attention that the unsychronized lip-sync issue is getting seems to be ignoring one important piece of information. Many of us who have our hi-def tv's connected to over-the-air rooftop antennaes are also having the problem. I recently bought a 50-inch Panasonic plasma and my sister recently bought a 42-inch Panasonic plasma, and we both have intermittent, but severe, sync issues here in metropolitan Phx. Each of us is running co-axial cable straight from the antennae through our VCR connections and on into the TVs. So severe is the problem that the distraction renders some programming unwatchable. I don't understand how this issue has escaped attention in the media and popular consumer magazines.


Welcome to the Forum Mark (we used to live in Tempe...can you please send up some warm air and sunshine? )

Sorry to hear that you're having problems...it can be a PITA for sure. Our local NBC affiliate is one of the worst offenders when it comes to clean HD broadcasts and it's very annoying at times. I agree more needs to be said about it and I suspect as more people get into HD the complaints will grow.

BTW, since TiVo is a DVR/PVR, the term "VCR" is only allowed to be used in the very worst context here, i.e. "The great unwashed that still use VCR's need to put away their Cheers tapes and join the 21st Century!" Um, unless it's your sister of course.


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## volsfan (Mar 1, 2005)

Anyone seen an issue like this? When I pause a program on my S3, I often get a loud repetitive sound, almost like a record skipping. I can usually move on a bit further, then re-pause, and the problem goes away. I've seen this problem since the day I bought my S3.


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## tatvtb (Dec 1, 2007)

Since my last post on 11/30, Tivo has sent a new Tivo HD unit and Cox Cable here in Phoenix has swapped the cable cards, replaced a few RF connectors and tested the cable strength. (As with the first visit, the Cox contractor could not get the CC's provisioned properly, a follow up call was required by me. )

I am still experiencing the pixelation and audio sync problems. The problem occurred with the new TivoHD immediately after the software update and before the cable cards were installed. The problem occurred with the roof top antenna connected to the Tivo, which reported a signal strength of 95 to 100. The problem occurred on several channels.

With the new Tivo box in operation, I spent another hour on the phone with a Tivo HD rep who asked me to step through the myriad troubleshooting steps AGAIN; power cycle, change cables, change TVs, try composite video connection, move Tivo away from AV receiver, connect cable directly to TV. Several times during this futile exercise I reminded the rep that the problems began for me AFTER the latest software update. My Tivo HD was fine in September. He ignored me.

After a previous call that triggered the exchange and before receiving the replacement box, Tivo cancelled service on my old box. This was a problem because I was still using it, having no replacement. I called and asked for help. By chance, I was connected to an experienced rep who explained the problem, apologized and suggested I use the remaining 5 days of "grace" period to use the old box until the new box was installed and configured. I agreed. She asked why I was offered a replacement. I explained the details of my epic attempt to resolve the problem. She apologized again and said that the *next version* of the Tivo software should resolve the problem.

So now I have a new Tivo HD box with the same problem. The only option offered by Tivo is another replacement. He said that if my problem was common that they would have received "lots of complaints". He claims no knowledge of a software fix.

Based on my experience so far, I have a low degree of confidence that yet another replacement will solve the problem. I've had no luck persuading Tivo Customer Service to move beyond the script and search for a solution. Tivo "Executive Relations" left a message on my phone, but has not returned my call in response. There is nothing in the case notes about this attempt. I wonder why they want to talk to me?

I guess the next step is to ask the cable company to replace the cable cards again.

I'm a new Tivo customer and so far my experience with the product and service has been quite poor. I understand the challenges they confront with multiple cable companies. But I am paying for a service that I am not receiving. And, I'm spending a lot of time and money to try to get it working.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

tatvtb said:


> Since my last post on 11/30, Tivo has sent a new Tivo HD unit and Cox Cable here in Phoenix has swapped the cable cards, replaced a few RF connectors and tested the cable strength. (As with the first visit, the Cox contractor could not get the CC's provisioned properly, a follow up call was required by me. )
> 
> I am still experiencing the pixelation and audio sync problems. The problem occurred with the new TivoHD immediately after the software update and before the cable cards were installed. The problem occurred with the roof top antenna connected to the Tivo, which reported a signal strength of 95 to 100. The problem occurred on several channels.
> 
> ...


Yikes!  Nothing they've told you is acceptable IMHO. You basically have a bricked TiVo HD (for the second time) and no one is doing anything about it. 

It does sound like one of two things; a local issue or the software upgrade and a local issue. Obviously most of the boxes out there (including our S3, THD, S2) are working properly, but there's something not right in your case and they should do more than offer to send yet another box.

If all else fails you can send an e-mail to "[email protected]" that includes a quick description of the issue, your 15-digit TiVo Service Number, and your contact number. One of the good TiVo folks that visits here frequently may be able to offer you more help than they did on the phone.

Don't despair, they do work quite well. We've had them for years and years with very little problems, but there is the odd WTF now and then that needs special attention.

Hang in there and let us know how it goes. :up:


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## BrianAZ (Aug 13, 2007)

tatvtb said:


> Since my last post on 11/30, Tivo has sent a new Tivo HD unit and Cox Cable here in Phoenix has swapped the cable cards, replaced a few RF connectors and tested the cable strength. (As with the first visit, the Cox contractor could not get the CC's provisioned properly, a follow up call was required by me. )
> 
> I am still experiencing the pixelation and audio sync problems. The problem occurred with the new TivoHD immediately after the software update and before the cable cards were installed. The problem occurred with the roof top antenna connected to the Tivo, which reported a signal strength of 95 to 100. The problem occurred on several channels.
> 
> ...


I am also Cox-Phoenix and have a problem which I believe is the same as yours. I'll be watching a non-HD station (have not seen this on HD channels @ all) and there will be a video stutter. If I let it play out, it seems that the video slows way down while the audio continues @ a normal pace. If I hit pause and then play, the audio gets all garbled, almost like there are two streams of audio playing over each other at different speeds. This lasts for a period of time (~10-30 seconds?) after which the audio/video are sync'd until it breaks the next time.

As I said above, this happens to me only on non-HD stations. It's happened most recently on Dirty Jobs and Lockup. If I play a recording again, it will happen in exactly the same place so I'm guessing that there is something wrong/unusual with the signal which is saved to the recording and the Tivo doesn't handle it gracefully. I've seen this on both recordings and live TV I'm not recording.

Like you, this only started in the last few months after a software update. Because of that, I doubt exchanging your Tivo or calling your cableco will help. As the "experienced" analyst said, we'll need to wait until the next software update is released (and hope it doesn't break anything else! )

I get back into town on Sunday. I'll see if I have some time next week to videotape it happening and post it to see if it's the same thing you're experiencing.

-Brian


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## tatvtb (Dec 1, 2007)

Brian, 

Thanks for the update. The problem you describe reads exactly like mine. I see the problem less frequently on HD channels, although I saw it regularly on MOJO, "Sunrise Earth" and others today (Fri). The problem happens every few minutes on MSNBC (signal steady at 100). 

I saw the problem when the new, replacement Tivo box was connected to antenna only, with no cable cards present. The software version was 9.2a. The signal level was 95-100. The last Tivo rep said his only option is to replace the box again. I have not decided if I want to spend the time to do this. I'm still waiting for a call back from Tivo Executive Relations. 

In the mean time I've asked Cox cable to exchange the Cable Cards with newer versions or M Cards. The Cox Cable rep said she could not guarantee that the technician will have newer cards and she could not request as such. Service is scheduled for tomorrow. 

I not sure what I will do if this does not solve the problem. I can't count on a software update to fix it, since it was a software update that appears to have caused the issue in the first place. I don't like feeling that new software might be installed at any moment and that I may have to spend my time and money to solve any new problems that might emerge. Based on my previous experience with Tivo products and service, I will always have that nagging feeling that something could go wrong at any moment with this fragile hardware and software.

I read today that DirecTV bought ReplayTV. Maybe this combo of products will provide better alternative to Tivo. DVR space needs more competition. 

BTW, the Tivo rep said that I was the only one who complained of this issue. I know from Internet searches that this is not true. I realize that calling for technical support can be difficult and time consuming, but I encourage ANYONE who experiences this issue or any other problem to call Tivo to report it. This is the only way they can identify, track and fix problems.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

tatvtb said:


> Thanks for the update. The problem you describe reads exactly like mine. I see the problem less frequently on HD channels, although I saw it regularly on MOJO, "Sunrise Earth" and others today (Fri). The problem happens every few minutes on MSNBC (signal steady at 100).
> 
> I saw the problem when the new, replacement Tivo box was connected to antenna only, with no cable cards present.


If you have the problem then, one good possibility seen by several folks here is that your antenna is delivering too strong a signal. That's especially possible if you have a powered antenna, but can be true of an unpowered antenna if you are close to a tower. Note the antenna signal can interfere with the cable signal if it's really high.

Try reducing the antenna signal strength (adjust the power if you can, try a different antenna, try attenuators (see FIOS pixelation threads)). The TiVos do not react well to too strong of a signal!


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## MarkinAZ (Dec 18, 2007)

Hi,

I'm new to the Tivo Community but I've been a Tivo user and Community watcher for years. I've been with Directv for years primarily because of Tivo but with the end in sight for my DTV Tivo I wanted to test the Tivo HD waters.

I live in the Phoenix area and just yesterday Cox cable brought 4 S-cards to setup my 2 new HD Tivos. The installation was smoother and quicker than I expected. I had done a little work on my Tivos to make sure they were as up to date as possible. The installer said they have M-cards but he has had better luck with the S-cards. He also installed an amp outside because I wasn't receiving any of the digital or HD national channels. Everything seemed to be working okay until I tried Discovery HD Theater. The picture was in slow motion and the audio was totally out of sync. I switched channels and switched back and it was still off. I switched to MTV HD and it played for hours without a problem.

I came across a similar problem on USA. The picture would pixelate and then the audio would be out of sync. Switching channels would temporarily fix the problem but it would return in less than 30 minutes.

This morning I unplugged on of the Tivos for a while and reset it. I was happy to see Discovery HD was looking great and everything was fine, but unfortunately in less than 30 minutes everything was back to the way it was yesterday.

I saw a couple of posts that suggested an M-card could solve the problem. I'm hoping someone can confirm that before I call Cox and ask for a service call.

Thanks for all of the great information and for being a resource all of these years. I'm looking forward to being a part of the Community.

Cheers, Mark


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## Luke M (Nov 5, 2002)

I ran into an odd A/V sync anomaly. At one point in a digital recording, just after a commercial break, the video races ahead (as if fast forwarded) while the audio plays normally, so the video gets ahead of the audio. If I carefully rewind to a point just after the anomaly begins, then it plays fine.


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## tatvtb (Dec 1, 2007)

Mark, 

I had the same problem with my Tivo HD and Scientific Atlanta S Cards (stamped on the back with a 2006 date). While troubleshooting, Cox PHX replaced everything from the street to the back of the Tivo box, including all coax and F Connectors. The problem remained until I persuaded Cox to replace the two S cards with one M card. There were CC configuration problems after the firmware was automatically downloaded to the M card during the setup. Power-cycling the Tivo after the firmware download completed solved the problem. 

I still get occasional pixelization and other digital artifacts, but the very annoying sync problem has not reappeared. 

I strongly encourage you to report the problem as you described it to Tivo. I know it may seem like a waste of time, but its the only way Tivo will learn about this apparently common issue. Also, having a case on file might help get Tivo to refund any charges (if any) from Cox for replacement of the S cards with an M card.


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## MarkinAZ (Dec 18, 2007)

Thanks to everyone for your replies. I wanted to come full circle with my post. I had Cox come back out, remove the SA S-Cards and replace them with a single SA M-Card. They did this in both HD Tivo boxes I have.

I hate posting this because I will probably jinx myself but in the 5 days since the installation, the M-Cards seemed to have solved my slow motion and audio-sync issues that I experienced with the S-Cards on certain channels. I'll report back if anything changes but I wanted everyone to know that at least in some cases M-Cards can solve this problem.

Good luck and Happy Holidays!


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## baronep (Jan 15, 2007)

I had the video/audio sync problem. You probably see pixilation just prior to loosing sync. Tivo also told me that it was a cable issue, so I called Cox and the they said that they have seen the Multi Stream cable card fix the problem, which it did. I also removed the signal amplifier that Cox installed because my signal to the Tivo's was low. 

I would search Tivo.com or call Tivo support and ask, what is the optimal signal that Tivo requires, because it seems it must not be the same as what the cable companies DVR requires. 

Does anyone else wonder why we, Tivo customers must research and fix these problems. Hey Tivo, maybe you need to play nicer with the cable companies. They seem to not like you too much. 

My 2 Cents
Good Luck


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## BrianAZ (Aug 13, 2007)

This is good news. I had avoided requesting Cox Phoenix to come out and install a M card due to the high risk that they'd misconfigure something and I'd be in a worse position than I am now with the sync issues. As I stated above, my problem is exactly as others have described it... video goes to slow-mo while the audio continues. If I press pause and play, the video straightens out... and the audio sounds as if there are multiple streams playing over themselves for a few seconds (very garbled and sounds like it's playing faster than realtime) until it all clears up and is fine until it happens again 5-20 min later.

So far I think I've heard of two people fixing this with a M Card.. My only questions for you folks are:


Did Cox charge you to swap 2-S for 1-M?
Will they guaruntee on the phone that the technician will bring M cards?

Thanks!


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## baronep (Jan 15, 2007)

Hi BrianAZ,

Sorry for the delay

Cox did not charge me again. They only charged the first time, for the initial install

If you tell them that you want the multi cards when you call to setup the appointment, they will bring the cards.

Good Luck


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## stadman (Dec 24, 2007)

For those folks that have had Cox replace the S cards with M cards - are you still running good? No more problems experienced?

I called cox this morning to have them come out tomorrow, so fingers crossed this is the issue. I havea S3 and a S2 tivo, my S3 has become uinwatchable to be honest, I have reverted to watching TV in the bedroom on the S2! I wanted to take advantage of Tivo's HD lifetime offer, but my S3 has been so bad recently I was skeptical about getting another. Will report back any progress.


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## BrianAZ (Aug 13, 2007)

stadman said:


> For those folks that have had Cox replace the S cards with M cards - are you still running good? No more problems experienced?
> 
> I called cox this morning to have them come out tomorrow, so fingers crossed this is the issue. I havea S3 and a S2 tivo, my S3 has become uinwatchable to be honest, I have reverted to watching TV in the bedroom on the S2! I wanted to take advantage of Tivo's HD lifetime offer, but my S3 has been so bad recently I was skeptical about getting another. Will report back any progress.


Where are you located? I'm contemplating swapping with a MCard but I've heard other people say they experience periods where certain channels will drop off the Tivo and be unavailable to watch until a reboot. I've only heard a couple people mention it so maybe it's a lot less likely to happen than the sync issue with the SCards....?


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## BobB (Aug 26, 2002)

BrianAZ said:


> Where are you located? I'm contemplating swapping with a MCard but I've heard other people say they experience periods where certain channels will drop off the Tivo and be unavailable to watch until a reboot. I've only heard a couple people mention it so maybe it's a lot less likely to happen than the sync issue with the SCards....?


I'm running an Mcard in Boston with Comcast, and lost audio sync only once on one channel in the month or so I've been using it. And that may well have been an error on the part of the channel provider or cable company, I don't think it was necessarily a TiVO problem.


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## stadman (Dec 24, 2007)

BrianAZ said:


> Where are you located? I'm contemplating swapping with a MCard but I've heard other people say they experience periods where certain channels will drop off the Tivo and be unavailable to watch until a reboot. I've only heard a couple people mention it so maybe it's a lot less likely to happen than the sync issue with the SCards....?


I am located in Chanlder, AZ. I saw that folks were having the channel drop issues in our area. To be honest, something has to be done, it has gotten so bad that I cant watch it anymore! Personally, the fact that the issues coincided fairly well with a Tivo update makes me think that Tivo are to blame, but good luck getting them to do anything about it! I will let you know how I get on.


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## stadman (Dec 24, 2007)

The COX technician came yesterday. He started out by checking my signal strength. He noticed that my Digital TV and Internet signal strength was pretty low. He cleaned some stuff up outside in the incoming box and removed a splitter out there (I didnt even know there was a splitter in there!). He then installed a signal booster in my distribution box. The signal strength was now good according to him and my internet should be quicker (not noticed personally). Fingers crossed, but Tivo has been behaving ever since. No issues to date. He brought some M cards with him, but said that he wanted to check everything else out first. Looks like COX did a reasonable job for a change....hope this helps others.


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## BrianAZ (Aug 13, 2007)

stadman said:


> The COX technician came yesterday. He started out by checking my signal strength. He noticed that my Digital TV and Internet signal strength was pretty low. He cleaned some stuff up outside in the incoming box and removed a splitter out there (I didnt even know there was a splitter in there!). He then installed a signal booster in my distribution box. The signal strength was now good according to him and my internet should be quicker (not noticed personally). Fingers crossed, but Tivo has been behaving ever since. No issues to date. He brought some M cards with him, but said that he wanted to check everything else out first. Looks like COX did a reasonable job for a change....hope this helps others.


Thanks for the update! Can you advise in another couple days if you're still issue-free? Maybe I should give Cox a shot on this one.


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## xoclipse (Jun 9, 2007)

BrianAZ said:


> Thanks for the update! Can you advise in another couple days if you're still issue-free? Maybe I should give Cox a shot on this one.


I'm in Phoenix too and having the same issues. I have two S cards in my Tivo HD and I have the problem on some of my recordings where it fast forwards, no audio, then audio comes back and it skipped 20 or 30 seconds. Its driving me crazy!

I'm thinking about calling Cox and asking them to bring an M card, although I hope the M card won't present new issues.


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## Zonie65 (Dec 30, 2007)

Just got my Tivo hooked up a few days ago. I have 2 SA S-Cards installed. I get the EXACT same issue described here; Pixelation then Audio out of Synch. I only notice this when watching Nickelodean P (NIKP). It is consistent and reproduceable every time. The 10 second rewind gets it back in synch right away..only to happen again 5 minutes later. My Denon receiver clearly loses the Dolby Digital signal when this happens as I can watch it recapture it every time on the front panel. So far NIKP is the only station that does this. Not sure it warrants having Cox back out here with an M-Card and the possible problems that brings, so will be watching this thread to see how it's going.


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## cgi-bin (Jan 18, 2005)

I'm having 2 problems... first is the same one that seems to be commonly reported here where the audio plays fine, put the picture speeds up (to me is seems the picture runs fast, but it may be slow I need to watch more closely... I usually grab the p-nut and spam ff/skip until its back to normal) If I rewind and then 30-sec skip the problem continues, but if rewind and the use ff past the spot it starts, its fine.

My second problem happens much more often (almost every show) is a 5 to 7 second complete audio drop. The picture is fine (no speed change), just NO audio. (Tivo bloops, etc can be heard during the drop outs if I hit any buttons) This happens on pretty much every recording, usually once, but sometimes a couple of times. On any channel and either tuner.

I watch almost exclusively SD content (don't have HD TV yet). Tivo is S3 with 2 M-cards. Cable provider is Blue Ridge Communications. Audio-out is optical to Sony receiver and RCA from there to TV. (s-video for picture).

I'll try to transfer a recording to my PC and see if the problems are present there as well.

Is there any way to see the diagnostics during a recording to see if there was signal problems or whatever? I can only seem to see the info if I go thought the tivo menus and that seems to be a current snapshot, no way to see historical trouble.


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## mhhorowi (Nov 26, 2007)

I am having the same problem problem I have a Tivo HD with 2 Single Cards. I am definitely considering calling Cox and getting an M card after reading this thread. 

I am also experiencing sound quality problems on Fox HD. I have tried both HDMI and composite video / audio both through and amp and to the tv. It is almost like there is too much signal coming through for the speakers to handle everything and you get static. I haven't noticed this problem on any other channel but fox hd. It's highly annoying.

Any suggestions would be great.


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## BrianAZ (Aug 13, 2007)

I just scheduled Cox to come out on Saturday to swap my S cards for a M card. The guy on the phone said that if it was not Cox equipment at fault they would charge me a $49.95 fee for the truck roll (Cox-Phx doesn't let you install cablecards yourself ). However, he mentioned that they have some sort of insurance plan which is $5 a month and would cover truck rolls for any reason. Since I didn't want to take a chance with the $50 fee, I signed up and will cancel after the visit if it fixes the issue.

I'll report back my results if the swap happens (guy on phone wasn't sure if they had M cards but requested them in the notes).


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## Mathmn (Mar 24, 2006)

I have video tiling and audio sync problems on my HD TiVo for a couple of months now. I've replaced the cable cards twice and just swapped out the TiVo box for the second time. 

Now I'm noticing tiling on my more expensive Series 3. The series 3 is connected through a Yamaha receiver with HDMI switching. While the tiling is sometimes so severe that the picture actually freezes for second, the audio remains in sync. When I watch the HD Tivo using the TV tuner and bypass the TiVo, there are no video or audio problems.


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## BrianAZ (Aug 13, 2007)

Mathmn said:


> I have video tiling and audio sync problems on my HD TiVo for a couple of months now. I've replaced the cable cards twice and just swapped out the TiVo box for the second time.
> 
> Now I'm noticing tiling on my more expensive Series 3. The series 3 is connected through a Yamaha receiver with HDMI switching. While the tiling is sometimes so severe that the picture actually freezes for second, the audio remains in sync. When I watch the HD Tivo using the TV tuner and bypass the TiVo, there are no video or audio problems.


S or M cards?


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## Mathmn (Mar 24, 2006)

S Cards


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## Mathmn (Mar 24, 2006)

A cox tech is coming out today and I've asked him to bring M Cards to replace the S cards I'm currently using on both the Series 3 and the HD.


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## Mathmn (Mar 24, 2006)

Yes, I've been having the same problems. I've replaced cable cards 3 times, and the TiVo box twice. A Cox tech is coming out today to install Multi Stream cards. I've checked all connections, and have used a variety of inputs. When I watch directly out of the wall, I get none of the problems. As soon as I put the TiVo back into the loop, the tiling and audio unsync happens again.


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## BrianAZ (Aug 13, 2007)

Mathmn said:


> Yes, I've been having the same problems. I've replaced cable cards 3 times, and the TiVo box twice. A Cox tech is coming out today to install Multi Stream cards. I've checked all connections, and have used a variety of inputs. When I watch directly out of the wall, I get none of the problems. As soon as I put the TiVo back into the loop, the tiling and audio unsync happens again.


Are you in Arizona? With so many folks reporting this issue w/ Cox in Az, I'm starting to think that maybe it's a localized issue.

Please let us know if this works for you.

Thanks


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## kobari (Oct 27, 2007)

I have comcast with M-Card and having the exact same issue: pixelation, out-of-sync, pause fixes the issue.


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## BrianAZ (Aug 13, 2007)

kobari said:


> I have comcast with M-Card and having the exact same issue: pixelation, out-of-sync, pause fixes the issue.


Ok well there goes that idea. Can't believe we haven't heard anything from Tivo folks who are usually trolling this site. Sounds as though this is impacting a substantial # of folks.


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## bjerwin99 (Nov 21, 2002)

Having the same problem too. Cox-Phx (Chandler) with two SciAt S CCs and a series 3. Everything worked fine until sometime in October, after my parents were out for a visit. I thought it was just something they did to it since they managed to break almost every other AV setup I have. 

Tech came out and messed around with various connections and replaced one of the CCs. The signal levels are up but still get tiling, usually only on standard def signals, and typically only on CC #1. They are sending out some maintenance people to service the line from their box to the house but I really doubt that this will help.

It seems like it could be this SW update which I wasn't even aware of till reading some previous posts. Hope something can fix this soon!


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## BrianAZ (Aug 13, 2007)

Cox tech just left. Too early to tell if the MCard fixed my audio sync issue or not. Will watch for a day or so and report back.


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## bjerwin99 (Nov 21, 2002)

The techs came out and serviced the line from the street to the house.

Surprise! No change.

Will be interested to see what happens with the M card. Otherwise I guess all I can do is hope a new SW update will resolve this.


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## BrianAZ (Aug 13, 2007)

bjerwin99 said:


> The techs came out and serviced the line from the street to the house.
> 
> Surprise! No change.
> 
> Will be interested to see what happens with the M card. Otherwise I guess all I can do is hope a new SW update will resolve this.


I'll probably jinx myself but so far so good. This afternoon, we recorded a show my wife watches sometimes (Barefoot Contessa) and says *always* has the issue. It played just fine. I'll report back if I encounter the problem again.


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## saibari (Jan 11, 2008)

Hi all. I too am in Phoenix, with 2 Cox cable cards and experiencing these problems. It's driving me CRAZY!!  I'm encouraged by those who report that switching to the M-card fixed the problem. *Would those of you who switched to the M-card report back to let us know if the problem is still fixed? * I know that *vinman *and *phxbofh *both switched to the M-card in November so I'd really like to know if the problem is still gone.

I called Cox today and the tech "paired and upaired" the cable cards. She said that's all they can do with the cards remotely. She said if this doesn't fix the problem, to call her back. We'll see... I'll report back as to whether or not this helped. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!! I found it interesting though, that she had never heard of the problem AND wasn't aware that they had M-cards available and in use... Hmmmm....


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## rkemmer (Nov 7, 2007)

Hi,

My last note was on 11/14/2007. I said the problem went away after download of 9.2a software. Well, it hasn't! I still get the stutter/loss of picture-audio sync. (audio trails picture by a few seconds). I've just been living with the problem which pops up about once a day...

Comcast here (Burlington, VT) doesn't have the m cards yet so I'm at a loss as to what to do.

Dick


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## saibari (Jan 11, 2008)

The "unpairing and pairing" of my S-cards did NOT help!  A Cox tech is coming out tomorrow. I requested that the tech bring an M-card. I truly hopes this solves the problem!


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## [email protected] (Dec 1, 2007)

I'm occasionally seeing this problem on a TiVo HD with an M card., watching the HD version of my local CBS channel. The audio seems to get about two seconds behind the video.

I haven't tried the pause/ff fix yet - I'll try that the next time it happens. I did, however, check the OTA version of the show (I've still got an antenna hooked up to a different TiVo HD in another room), and the audio was synced up with the video perfectly. I didn't think to check the sync on the cable feed to that room - that's another thing to try next time I have problems.


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## saibari (Jan 11, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I'm occasionally seeing this problem on a TiVo HD with an M card., watching the HD version of my local CBS channel. The audio seems to get about two seconds behind the video.
> 
> I haven't tried the pause/ff fix yet - I'll try that the next time it happens. I did, however, check the OTA version of the show (I've still got an antenna hooked up to a different TiVo HD in another room), and the audio was synced up with the video perfectly. I didn't think to check the sync on the cable feed to that room - that's another thing to try next time I have problems.


Well, an "occasional" problem I can live with, I suppose. I do have another series 2 TiVo, connected to a cable-box and I NEVER have synch problems on it. I did notice, though, that a couple of people on this thread noted that they experienced synch problems with OTA feeds as well....


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## wvalencia (Jun 24, 2004)

I have a Tivo HD, with two S cards here in So Cal. Time Warner is the provider and I have started to see the same issue - stutter on HD channels only.

I have swaped out the cards once and still I have the problem...with HD content only.


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## ben2e (Feb 14, 2003)

Comcast Seattle->Tivo S3(M cards)->Onkyo 905->Pioneer 5080

I haven't seen any of the pixilation or audio cutting out, but like the 1st poster stated (who I believe also has Comcast). I see audio consistently lagging video. The worst is on ABC and CBS HDTV. Grey's Anatomy has become virtually unwatchable.

Now I do have an Onkyo receiver which as others have mentioned seem to have their own delay issues, but I've tested this without the receiver in the loop. I've seen it suggested also that the network feeds themselves are improperly encoded. I'd believe this but I've also heard others with Seattle Comcast & Tivo S3's which didn't see the delay. At least SOME of my cards are M cards (I have 4).

I'm dying for a fix but am quite puzzled at this point. 

1. If it's Tivo software version at fault, why wouldn't everyone see this ? I seem to have the same 9.2a that everyone else does. Presumably people who don't see the issue also have that version.

2. If the network encoding is at fault, you'd think everyone would see the sync problem as well.

3. What do people mean by replacing two S cards with an M card ? My "older" cards say Motorola MediaCipher CableCARD's. The new ones actually see M-Card.

I don't see any change at all if I do a 30-second skip or power off the unit. It's always there. I even see the delay now on non-HD channels so I seem to be going backwards instead of improving.

I spoke to a Tivo rep today as well who also suggested it was a card issue (or could be). Is there some new card firmware that can be downloaded ? 2 of my cards are quite old, the others (the M cards) are newer.


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## Playloud (Jan 6, 2008)

ben2e said:


> 3. What do people mean by replacing two S cards with an M card ? My "older" cards say Motorola MediaCipher CableCARD's. The new ones actually see M-Card.


S-Card = Single Stream (one Cablecard per tuner. Total of two cards needed per Tivo S3/HD).
M-Card = Multi Stream (one Cablecard per two tuners. Total of one card needed per Tivo S3/HD).


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

Playloud said:


> S-Card = Single Stream (one Cablecard per tuner. Total of two cards needed per Tivo S3/HD).
> M-Card = Multi Stream (one Cablecard per two tuners. Total of one card needed per Tivo S3/HD).


Correction:
S-Card = Single Stream (one Cablecard per tuner. Total of two cards needed per Tivo S3/HD).
M-Card = Multi Stream (one Cablecard per two tuners. Total of one card needed per Tivo HD; Two cards needed per TiVo S3 since they must operate the M-Card in S-Card mode).


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## Playloud (Jan 6, 2008)

CrispyCritter said:


> Correction:
> S-Card = Single Stream (one Cablecard per tuner. Total of two cards needed per Tivo S3/HD).
> M-Card = Multi Stream (one Cablecard per two tuners. Total of one card needed per Tivo HD; Two cards needed per TiVo S3 since they must operate the M-Card in S-Card mode).


Bah. I knew that too. That's what I get for trying to post after midnight.


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## saibari (Jan 11, 2008)

I'm _very_ pleased to report that, after switching from 2 single-stream cards to 1 multistream card (Cox) 6 days ago, I have had NO MORE audio/video synch problems!!  I also have not experienced the dropped channels that some others experienced after switching to an M-card. Whew! 

This switch to the M-card has also solved another problem, that I didn't realize was related: programs that were not supposed to be copyright protected were being recognized as such and deleting themselves. So, for example, Monk, Nip-Tuck, Boy Meets Grill, Easy Entertaining with Michael Chiarello (to name a few) would all sometimes delete themselves within 2 hours of being recorded! Aaargh! However, since switching to the M-card, this problem has also disappeared. Yay! 

Interestingly, the Cox tech had felt that it was highly unlikely that switching to the M-card would solve my problem! And when I called TiVo they had wanted me to fiddle with my connections (which I dare not touch cuz it was professionally installed and my surround-sound is working great). If it weren't for this board, I'd still be pulling my hair out!! I did call TiVo and report my experience. So hopefully they'll know to tell future customers with this problem to give this a try.

It's odd though that while we all have had similar issues with the a/v synch, some have had it happen on HD and others (like me) only on SD channels. So who knows exactly what's going on?! I'm just _thrilled_ that it's fixed and pray that it doesn't show up again! If it does, I'll let you know!


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

saibari said:


> I'm _very_ pleased to report that, after switching from 2 single-stream cards to 1 multistream card (Cox) 6 days ago, I have had NO MORE audio/video synch problems!!  I also have not experienced the dropped channels that some others experienced after switching to an M-card. Whew!  <snip>


All good feedback...thanks for that. :up:


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## ben2e (Feb 14, 2003)

The cards are labeled M-Card and look identical to the picture with the Motorola MultiStream CableCard release (kind of a pink/orange label color). I was hopeful they would fix it. Damn....


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## saibari (Jan 11, 2008)

Sorry guys, I spoke too soon. Thankfully yes, the audio/video synch problems are still gone (hopefully never to return!) but... I _am_ experiencing the dropped channels problem! 

*Has anyone found a fix for this? *  I have to say though, I'd much rather deal with this problem than the awful audio/video synch issues I was having!

But, frankly, this is ridiculous. Cox is upping my bill by $10 a month and this is the service I get?!


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## holmete (Aug 28, 2007)

I am having the same issues with my TivoHD. I just switched to the M-card Wednesday (23JAN08) to see if it would help... No joy...  The problem mostly occurs during Judge Judy on channel 705 KPIX - HD (CBS)...


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## saibari (Jan 11, 2008)

holmete said:


> I am having the same issues with my TivoHD. I just switched to the M-card Wednesday (23JAN08) to see if it would help... No joy...  The problem mostly occurs during Judge Judy on channel 705 KPIX - HD (CBS)...


Wow! I'm sorry the M-card didn't fix your a/v synch problems. Though I must say, this dropped channel issue is a real pain too--but not as bad as the a/v synch...But then I've not missed any of my programs yet due to the channel being dropped. I'll be _really_ annoyed when that happens. I've got a Cox tech coming out tomorrow. Hopefully he or she will know how to deal with the issue!


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## Nexsen (Jul 12, 2005)

Lip-sync error is widespread and actually can start at image capture and continues accumulating through post production and broadcasting or DVD encoding - so there is lip-sync error present in essentially every program you receive before your TIVO records it.

Because lip-sync error is impossible in the real world our brains can not process the contradictory visual and aural information and tries to ignore it causing us to unconsciously look away from the lips but unfortunately not without negative consequences which have been documented in research at Stanford:

http://www.pixelinstruments.tv/pdf/Articles/Effects of Audio-Video Asynchrony.PDF

If you read that report you will see that most people did not consciously notice 41 ms of leading audio (2 1/2 NTSC fields or about one PAL frame) but still suffered the same negative impact on their perception of the characters.

Most "did" notice twice that much lip-sync error, however.

So, while lip-sync error masks itself , most of us can ignore between 40 and 80 ms but at some point our ability to look away from the lips subconsciously is exceeded and we become conscious of it and then usually begin to notice smaller errors that we were previously ignoring.

If you will really "focus on the lips" even on the channels where you don't notice the problem you will probably see lip-sync error there too.

The only way to eliminate this problem and the negative impact it has on our perception is to focus on the lips and fine tune an audio delay at the start of each new program or DVD. Most av receivers don't do a good job of fine tuning and many don't have enough delay so three companies now produce digital audio delays for this very purpose. Here's a review of all three:

http://www.audaud.com/article.php?ArticleID=3011

and another review of the newest one:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/felston_dd740.htm


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## saibari (Jan 11, 2008)

Thanks Nexsen--interesting info. However, lip synch error wasn't my problem. I was experiencing serious audio/video synch issues where the video would stutter and freeze for a moment and the audio would race ahead--I'm talking completely out of synch! This is the same problem lots of others on this and other boards reported. For me it happened on non-HD channels. Others reported the problem on HD channels. It got so bad that many programs were virtually unwatchable (e.g. Project Runway on Bravo).

After getting nowhere with Cox & TiVo, I did some online research and discovered that many people solved this problem by switching from 2 single-stream cards to one multi-stream card, I gave it a go. The Cox tech was convinced this wouldn't solve my problem... but it did! Of course, I did also read that many people were experiencing a different problem with their M-cards--dropped channels every 2 to 3 days. Unfortunately, upon switching to the M-card I too started experiencing this problem. However, it's not nearly as bad as the a/v problem.

That said, I'm _really_ upset that I'm experiencing any problem at all. When I pay for a service, I expect it to run smoothly with at most an occasional problem here and there--not these pervasive and persistent problems. AND I highly resent that I've had to spend hours researching these problems because when I call Cox and TiVo neither seems to be aware of the problems or their solutions. They should've immediately told me about the m-card fix for the a/v problems--yet they still don't seem to know this often fixes the problem.

Regarding this dropped-channel problem, only after 3 calls to Cox did I get a tech who was aware of the issue. Similarly, it took 3 calls to TiVo before I got a tech who immediately said this dropped channel problem is a known issue that is occurring in some markets (I'm in Phoenix). He took some info from me from the cable card diag screen and said he'd report it to the dept researching the problem. Of course, he couldn't tell me how long it would be before a fix would be found! *If anyone reading this is experiencing the dropped channels problem, please call TiVo (and Cox) and report it!* I figure the more calls they get, the quicker they'll find a solution...

Yesterday a Cox tech replaced my M-card with a new one. This seems to have fixed a possibly related problem--I wasn't receiving several expanded channels (23 through 50's range) that I should've been receiving. It's too soon to tell if it solves the dropped channels issue. However, the Cox tech told me that a Cox "addressability dept" is working on the problem and that Scientific Atlanta (cable card manufacturer) started a "trouble ticket" about the issue 3 weeks ago. Unfortunately neither Cox nor TiVo seem to be aware of the pervasive audio/synch issue....So, again, if you're experiencing the a/v synch issue, please call TiVo and Cox and report it!


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## ben2e (Feb 14, 2003)

Nexsen said:


> Lip-sync error is widespread and actually can start at image capture and continues accumulating through post production and broadcasting or DVD encoding - so there is lip-sync error present in essentially every program you receive before your TIVO records it.
> .
> .
> The only way to eliminate this problem and the negative impact it has on our perception is to focus on the lips and fine tune an audio delay at the start of each new program or DVD. Most av receivers don't do a good job of fine tuning and many don't have enough delay so three companies now produce digital audio delays for this very purpose. Here's a review of all three:


That ONLY helps if the audio leads the video. In most of the cases I see discussed and in mine personally, the video leads the audio so any audio delay just makes it worse. Is there such a product that would add video delay ?


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## ben2e (Feb 14, 2003)

I have an S3 so I can't quite do the 1-M-Card trick. Of course I'm dying for a fix. In my case it's mostly a problem with ABC HD, slightly less with CBS HD. Lost is nearly unwatchable in HD. In my frustration with the problem, I bought an HD antenna. For some reason it doesn't work well hooked up to the TV but works fine on the Tivo. Anyway, I see a delay on ABC HD even over the antenna whether or not I send the signal through my delay inducing Onkyo.

What puzzles me is some folks in Seattle, also using Comcast/Tivo S3 see no delay watching the same show ! The audio delay was so bad watching Lost it would be impossible to miss. If it was JUST a card issue, I can see that happening. Maybe OTA broadcasts are flawed differently, but still flawed.

I want to be one of those people who see no delay ! I guess I can try some different M-Cards. At this point, I'd try anything.


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## saibari (Jan 11, 2008)

ben2e said:


> ...I want to be one of those people who see no delay ! I guess I can try some different M-Cards. At this point, I'd try anything.


You know what folks? We pay good money for the TiVo box, TiVo service and cable service. We shouldn't be having these issues!!  Ok, got that out of my system...

As for fine-tuning the audio or visual delay--besides the fact that we shouldn't _have_ to fine-tune anything, and besides the fact that the audio is behind the video, this wouldn't work because it's not a_ consistent _delay. The video stutters and speeds ahead a second or two and the audio lags. Pressing pause usually causes the audio to catch up. Then it happens again a while later. This varies. Some programs were unwatchable because it happened so much.

As for whether or not an M-card fixes it--who knows?!  I had to switch M-cards because I started experiencing the dropped channels problem. Now I'm experiencing the a/v synch problem again! Only this time it's hapening on HD programs too. So far it's been happening about once per hour--not too bad. But last time the problem kept escalating. And frankly, _any_ a/v synch is too much! 

I'm ready to pull my hair out!!!


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

Perhaps we can suggest that Tivo employ some software developers who've written mpeg decoder software that doesn't suck.


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## saibari (Jan 11, 2008)

I am _very_ happy to report that for a week now I have experience neither the synch problem nor the dropped channels problem!!  Dare I say it?! It appears I now have trouble-free service!!  So, my advice would be to keep swapping out cable cards (as irritating as that is) until the problem is solved. OR could it be that TiVo finally fixed the problem? Is anyone else still experiencing these issues?


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## ben2e (Feb 14, 2003)

I still see them but haven't yet tried swapping cards. I have 4 (2 of each) and certainly haven't done a scientific comparison of each card. I even had the Comcast guy out here and knew it would be a coin toss as to whether the programming when he was here would show delay. Lost still didn't look great to me (granted that could be just ABC and likely is at least part of the problem).


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## Nexsen (Jul 12, 2005)

The problem you guys are having is one I will probably encounter soon as I have two HD Tivos waiting for cable cards to be installed. Time Warner here offers only the single channel cable card so I won't have the M card option but they talk about Open Cable cards being available at the end of this quarter but I see no mention of Open cable card support from Tivo.

And "yes", the audio delay boxes I mentioned won't solve a problem like you are encountering with audio racing ahead and then catching up. 

But they actually "can" help solve the problem of audio that arrives already delayed if you have a DLP, Plasma, or LCD.

The reason is that the display's video delay can be used to offset the already delayed audio (up to the video delay) and the audio delay can fill in the rest.

I've never encountered already delayed audio in the arriving signal greater than my display's 60 ms video delay but it could happen in which case you couldn't totally correct for it.

For example if you have a display that delays video 80 ms you would need to set your audio delay to 80 ms if the arriving signal had audio and video in-sync.

If the audio is already delayed 40 ms you will set your audio delay to 40 ms for perfect sync. 40 ms of the display's 80 ms delay would offset the delayed audio in the arriving signal and the 40 ms audio delay from the delay box would offset the remaining 40 ms video delay from the display.

The more usual case would be for audio to arrive 40 ms early in which case in this example you would tune your audio delay to 120 ms for perfect sync.

But again this is only going to solve the normal lip-sync problem where the sync error remains fairly constant during each program.

(But varies widely from program to program and DVD to DVD.)

Does anyone have any scoop on the Open Cable Cards that are supposed to do 2 way communication like a cable box? Will they be dual stream and has TIVO said when they might support them?

If they are imminent that might explain why problems with the regular cable cards aren't being addressed well. Clearly the cable company would rather us have open cable cards so we can order pay per view programs, etc.


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## rkemmer (Nov 7, 2007)

Hi,

I'm back after putting up with the sync. problem for weeks since my last post.

I had Comcast (Burlington, VT) come out to install an m-stream card to replace the 2 S-stream cards on 2/14/08.

Since then, I haven't noticed any of the sync. problem. It's too early to tell, but I'll get back in about two weeks to let the forum know if the good results persist...

Regards,

Dick


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## saibari (Jan 11, 2008)

rkemmer said:


> I'm back after putting up with the sync. problem for weeks since my last post.
> 
> I had Comcast (Burlington, VT) come out to install an m-stream card to replace the 2 S-stream cards on 2/14/08.
> 
> Since then, I haven't noticed any of the sync. problem. It's too early to tell, but I'll get back in about two weeks to let the forum know if the good results persist...


Wonderful news, Dick! If you start experiencing the not-as-bad, but still annoying and unacceptable "dropped channels" problem, have them swap out your M-card for another. That has apparently solved my problem. I've not had either a/v synch problems or dropped channels in over 2 weeks--yippee! 

Of course, it's a bit of a mystery because when I initially swapped the first M-card for the second, the dropped-channels problem stopped but for about 3-days I had occasional a/v synch issues again--about once per hour, on a handful of programs, which wasn't nearly as bad as it had been. I was really worried that it would get worse, but then the problem disappeared! So, I wondered if TiVo had found a fix. But then you were still experiencing the problems so... who knows?!


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## rkemmer (Nov 7, 2007)

While watching "Live TV" this morning, I got the dreaded sync. problem. Boo-Hiss, seems that the m-stream cable card didn't solve the problem!

I "recorded" the program as soon as the problem occurred so that I have an example on my drive for the Comcast people to see, if I can get them engaged in the problem. It is very repeatable by just allowing the program to play up to the point of the problem. It can be re-sync'd. with the 10 second back button.

IMHO this is a Tivo problem and I will be calling them again.

Regards,

Dick


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## rturrentine (Jan 24, 2003)

I have a Tivo HD and have experienced the A/V sync problem (jerky video) on HD programs, both live and recorded. I have a SA MCard. I rebooted and everything is working normal again. 

Strange that a recorded program had the issues during playback but a reboot fixed the recorded program. Maybe I'm imagining that.


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## saibari (Jan 11, 2008)

rturrentine said:


> I have a Tivo HD and have experienced the A/V sync problem (jerky video) on HD programs, both live and recorded. I have a SA MCard. I rebooted and everything is working normal again.
> 
> Strange that a recorded program had the issues during playback but a reboot fixed the recorded program. Maybe I'm imagining that.


That's very interesting. If it happens again (hope not!) you should reboot and see if that again fixes the recorded program. I wonder what that means?

I'm happy to report that I'm STILL "dropped-channel" and "A/V synch problem" free!  Woo-hoo! 

If anyone is experiencing either problem I suggest you try switching to a new card. It appears that's what fixed my problems...


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## Zonie65 (Dec 30, 2007)

The Cox technician just left after I got fed up and decided to try switching the 2 SA S-Cards with an M-Card. After a firmware upgrade to the card, it's working so far. I could count on NICK-P, and DISN to show me the audio out of sync within 5 minutes. It's been 2 hours so far and still in sync (although I'm now humming the Backyardigans theme song).
BTW-This tech knew exactly what he was doing. I was actually on a teleconference and just watched him do everything in a few minutes. Nice to see that! Even the Cox tech support person was extremely helpful and didn't hesitate to put my request for M-Cards on the order. Can't bash Cox on this one.


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## saibari (Jan 11, 2008)

Well, I should've known it wouldn't last. I had the dropped channel problem again on Tue.  I'm hoping it won't happen regularly. Thankfully, still no synch problems. whew!


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## BrianAZ (Aug 13, 2007)

Zonie65 said:


> The Cox technician just left after I got fed up and decided to try switching the 2 SA S-Cards with an M-Card. After a firmware upgrade to the card, it's working so far. I could count on NICK-P, and DISN to show me the audio out of sync within 5 minutes. It's been 2 hours so far and still in sync (although I'm now humming the Backyardigans theme song).
> BTW-This tech knew exactly what he was doing. I was actually on a teleconference and just watched him do everything in a few minutes. Nice to see that! Even the Cox tech support person was extremely helpful and didn't hesitate to put my request for M-Cards on the order. Can't bash Cox on this one.


This will certainly fix the problem as it has for me and several others. Now you'll just have to deal with rebooting your Tivo 2-3 times a week when you lose your channels (see saibari's post above). Not ideal, but WAY better than the tiling/stutter. It does get slightly more frustrating when reboots no longer fix the issue, but that usually takes 45 days or so (at least it did for me). When that happens, you'll need to have Cox come out and swap M-cards.


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## boredsox38 (Apr 7, 2007)

"I'm having 2 problems... first is the same one that seems to be commonly reported here where the audio plays fine, put the picture speeds up (to me is seems the picture runs fast, but it may be slow I need to watch more closely... I usually grab the p-nut and spam ff/skip until its back to normal) If I rewind and then 30-sec skip the problem continues, but if rewind and the use ff past the spot it starts, its fine.

My second problem happens much more often (almost every show) is a 5 to 7 second complete audio drop. The picture is fine (no speed change), just NO audio. (Tivo bloops, etc can be heard during the drop outs if I hit any buttons) This happens on pretty much every recording, usually once, but sometimes a couple of times. On any channel and either tuner.

I watch almost exclusively SD content (don't have HD TV yet). Tivo is S3 with 2 M-cards. Cable provider is Blue Ridge Communications. Audio-out is optical to Sony receiver and RCA from there to TV. (s-video for picture).Have you found a solution to this problem"

I am also on Blue Ridge and have the same audio losses and sync issues on all channels.


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## saibari (Jan 11, 2008)

I've had the sound problem, but only rarely--thank goodness. When I've experienced it though (only 3 times since I got the TiVO-HD last October), it was for most or all of the recorded program. Very frustrating... but thankfully, it's not happened recently. You might try switching to one M-card. That may very well solve both problems... but as I'm sure you've read on this thread, you'll very likely experience the dropped channel problem every 2-3 days. But that's a lesser evil, in my opinion. ...

And by the way, my problem has escalated to the point where re-starting the TiVo does not bring the channels back! I had a Cox tech come out Monday and he fixed it by requesting a hit. He said that should I experience the problem again, to re-start the Tivo and if that doesn't fix it to call Cox and have them send a hit. There shouldn't be a need for a tech to come out--which is a good thing. But what a pain!! 

The tech reiterated that this isn't a Cox problem and that Tivo and Scientific Atlanta are working on the problem--but who knows when it'll be fixed!


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## BrianAZ (Aug 13, 2007)

saibari said:


> And by the way, my problem has escalated to the point where re-starting the TiVo does not bring the channels back! I had a Cox tech come out Monday and he fixed it by requesting a hit. He said that should I experience the problem again, to re-start the Tivo and if that doesn't fix it to call Cox and have them send a hit. There shouldn't be a need for a tech to come out--which is a good thing. But what a pain!!


Good to hear!! I'll certainly try that next time. I'll have to keep calling until I get a CSR who will try it. Each time I've called in the past, they swear up and down that nothing will fix it except swapping the card (which never made sense to me.. how would the card physically break!?!).


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## Tweaker 7 (Apr 30, 2015)

If you are having problems with the sound syncing with the lips when you are watching through TiVo, just use your "back" button one quick click, and it will sync up for you. Sometimes the words get ahead of the picture. Easy fix!


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