# A Sad Day - Unpulugged my Tivo



## Diamond Mike (Dec 21, 2002)

I thought I would keep one of my series 1 Tivos going and was all hooked up to the AltEPG (well done to those who have set it up). However I am fortunate to have a new Virgin Tivo, which I love (it was worth the trauma of switching from Sky) and I have just got used to watching in HD (mode 0 doesn't come close!). In addition the cost of daily update calls was beginning to rack up as I only have free weekend calls.

I have also installed a 1tb Humax Freeview HD recorder as my number 2 machine. Given all the bad press that I have seen an forums about difficulty of setup etc I was pleasantly surprised by how easy it was to get going and how reasonably straightforward all the functions seem. It remains to be seen how good series links will be.

Good luck to all of you who have remained faithful to their series 1 machines. It will be interesting to see how many more years it is before everyone has moved on.

(Just noticed I have invented a new verb - to unpulug - what a shame one can't edit the header)


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## jonmon (Jan 19, 2010)

Good luck with the Humax, I had two Humax Freeview PVRs and series link was useless. Thats why I got a secondhand TiVo. The operating system on the TiVo is so much better than the Humax. But it would be good if the TiVo had twin tuners.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Don't put your poor old Tivo in a cupboard.

Hopefully some of the 01 numbers soon to be provided for AltEPG access will turn out to come out of the free call allowances on Anytime call packages (because they will have no history of being proper internet dialup ISP numbers) with most phone providers so if you know anyone with an Anytime calls plan (a lot of people based at home in the daytime including retired people have them) who does not currently have a PVR of any kind or at least who does not have a PVR that actually works then why not donate your Tivo to them.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

You seem to think the 0845 is so much an issue that it's a barrier to people using altEPG
I doubt most people are that bothered - it's a lot less than £10/month after all!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> You seem to think the 0845 is so much an issue that it's a barrier to people using alt EPGI doubt most people are that bothered - it's a lot less than £10/month after all!


Most £10 a month Tivos stopped being used by their owners quite some time ago due to increasing unhappiness about the ongoing running cost. Most Tivos still in use are Lifetime subbed units for which the ongoing running cost is zero apart from the £40 or so per annum electricity running cost.

Thus your analogy is totally false and for many dialup only Tivos the high ongoing monthly telecoms running costs could be the final straw especially as all those individual daily calls and their cost on the phone bill will be much more visible to a Tivo user than the electricity cost of running a Tivo which is usually lost in the single overall quarterly electricity bill total number (which is not broken down in any itemised way).

Most Lifetime Tivos have remained in use up to now not just because they are reliable but because most owners see them as being virtually free to continue to run. The removal of the free 0808 diaup calls radically alters the status quo to a point where more Tivos may in due course be retired from service a direct result.


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Most £10 a month Tivos stopped being used by their owners quite some time ago due to increasing unhappiness about the ongoing running cost. Most Tivos still in use are Lifetime subbed units


Rubbish. You have no proof of that whatsoever.

I suggest you read TiVo's annual report which says that over 54% of TiVos in use are on monthly subscription.


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## speedyrite (May 18, 2002)

Diamond Mike said:


> <snip> I have just got used to watching in HD (mode 0 doesn't come close!).<snip>


I have to agree with you, and regrettably (for TiVo S1 UK) PQ wins over UI aesthetics for me.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

spitfires said:


> I suggest you read TiVo's annual report which says that over 54% of TiVos in use are on monthly subscription.


That would be in the USA and/or globally where Lifetime Subs have only been offered for a small percentage of the total time that Tivos have been on sale worldwide. In the UK Lifetime Subs were on offer for the whole time the product was on sale.


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## Benedict (Jun 8, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> That would be in the USA and/or globally where Lifetime Subs have only been offered for a small percentage of the total time that Tivos have been on sale worldwide. In the UK Lifetime Subs were on offer for the whole time the product was on sale.


Pete, you continue to amaze and astound me (for all of the wrong reasons). Your ability to analyse limited information and reach an uninformed conclusion (usually based on no more than your own gut feeling) that you then purport to be hard fact is both staggering and somewhat entertaining. You still have no evidence whatsoever to back up your claim that.....


Pete77 said:


> Most £10 a month Tivos stopped being used by their owners quite some time ago due to increasing unhappiness about the ongoing running cost. Most Tivos still in use are Lifetime subbed units


You have absolutely no proof of any of this.

There's nothing wrong with having an opinion, just pay more attention to how you express it if you want to stop getting people's back up (and be prepared for people to disagree with you beased on their own opinions). Something like this might go down better.....


> *I suspect that* most £10 a month Tivos stopped being used by their owners quite some time ago due to increasing unhappiness about the ongoing running cost*, which would mean that* most Tivos still in use *are likely to be* Lifetime subbed units


As an aside, 50% of the TiVos in my house were on a monthly subscription, and have been for 7+ years and were very much still in use with no issues about ongoing cost.


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

Diamond Mike said:


> I have also installed a 1tb Humax Freeview HD recorder as my number 2 machine. Given all the bad press that I have seen an forums about difficulty of setup etc I was pleasantly surprised by how easy it was to get going and how reasonably straightforward all the functions seem. It remains to be seen how good series links will be.


I have a 2TB Humax as well, mainly used for HD stuff and yes I have had a couple of issues.

1. When first setup one of my sat feeds was not connected and Humax defaulted to single input. Connected second lead but was unable to record two programmes. Even complete reset didn't recover it. Not clear from any setup menus it was using a single feed. Had to get into a "secret" menu to change back to 2 set feed input and suddenly can record two channels.

2. Sometimes just doesn't record items, both series link and single programmes. You get an entry in "media list" but won't play, say didn't record for unknown reason and only offers delete. Luckily TiVo recorded the missing programmes fine.

3. Had one or two programmes that didn't stop recording so 1/2 hour programme recorded from 8pm to 2am in morning 

4. One or two series links broken, records part one (despite offering to record series) but not part two. Made worse that you can't see "upcoming episodes" like TiVo, so you can't easily find out it not going to record next part of the series.

Other than that it is fine, HD is gorgeous. Kids (9 & 11) picked up its playback use no problem.

Having the remote "universable" to control TV, amplifier as well is good, less remotes cluttering up table. Layout of remote is my number 2 in worse laid out remotes I have ever encountered (no 1 is remote for my Panasonic amp, 44 identical buttons in a 4 x 11 grid). The really really important buttons for a PVR, play, pause, stop, FFWD etc are all just little buttons arranged in a 2 x 4 grid, very difficult to operate without having to look at the remote. TiVo really got it right with their remote.

Have installed the FTP and Samba "hack" so can access the recordings from my PC. Unfortunately since this hack came out more and more HD recordings are now recorded encrypted


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Benedict said:


> There's nothing wrong with having an opinion, just pay more attention to how you express it if you want to stop getting people's back up (and be prepared for people to disagree with you beased on their own opinions). Something like this might go down better.....


Benedict,

I am still waiting for your written assurance in the forum that you have never ever taken the lid off or personally modified your own Tivo(s) due to the alleged electrical safety dangers of doing so which you have enjoyed so sanctimoniously preaching to the rest of us about a few weeks ago.

If opening up a Tivo was actually as dangerous as sticking a metal fork down the slot of your toaster whilst a slice of bread is stuck in it in toasting mode and has caught fire (something against which amazingly there is still no decent safety protection for the poor old consumer) then I am quite sure that by now the Health and Safety Executive would have taken both www.tivoland.com and www.tivocentral.co.uk to court.

The reality is that opening up a Tivo is quite safe as long as you turn it off and disconnect it from the mains say 24 hours before opening it to let any remaining electrical current discharge. I would imagine that working underneath a car sitting on axle stands in a home garage as many owners of older cars do every single weekend is in fact a very great deal more dangerous and has resulted in a very great many more serious and unpleasant injuries. Yet strangely it has still not been made illegal for Halfords and other motor accessory stores to sell axle stands and no law has been passed to say that cars can only be raised off the ground on mechanical ramps in professional garages that regularly have their equipment serviced and checked by safety inspectors.

I notice that the average kettle also does not have a locking lid and a label on it that tells you it is dangerous to plunge your hand in to water boiling at 100C yet miraculously very few people are ever injured in this manner. So perhaps common sense is also often a factor in life.

I notice that common sense also allowed you to add the words to my post that you thought would have made it utterly watertight from a health and safety point of view in precisely the right place so clearly my comments were not ambiguous even without those words being present.


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## Timdownieuk (Nov 27, 2002)

Diamond Mike said:


> I thought I would keep one of my series 1 Tivos going and was all hooked up to the AltEPG (well done to those who have set it up). However I am fortunate to have a new Virgin Tivo, which I love (it was worth the trauma of switching from Sky) and I have just got used to watching in HD (mode 0 doesn't come close!). In addition the cost of daily update calls was beginning to rack up as I only have free weekend calls.
> 
> I have also installed a 1tb Humax Freeview HD recorder as my number 2 machine. Given all the bad press that I have seen an forums about difficulty of setup etc I was pleasantly surprised by how easy it was to get going and how reasonably straightforward all the functions seem. It remains to be seen how good series links will be.
> 
> ...


Likewise, I unplugged my TiVo and carried upstairs to the loft yesterday. I had set it up with the altepg but once having tasted HD television with an HD tuner I'm afraid its days were numbered.

Like so many, we've gone the Humax route. Not a perfect machine and as others have found, inexplicably fails to record occasionally but the twin tuners are nice to have. The remote *looks* pretty but is horrid to use which just highlights how good the ergonomics of the TiVo remote (& operating system) were.

Hopefully it'll find a new home with one of my student daughters.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Pete77 said:


> Most £10 a month Tivos stopped being used by their owners quite some time ago
> [snip more madeup facts]


Laughably untrue, and I'd condescendingly say I'm more in a position to know, having spoken to many more tivo owners than you 

There were loads of active monthly subbers (and rememeber they were free for the past 8 months), and reasons for moving from tivo has always mostly been multiple tuners and HD

The cost of 0845 calls really isn't a big issue - in fact many are quite incredulous that the altEPG service is free.

If anyone is really bothered, just disconnect/reconnect the phone plug once a week...


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## Benedict (Jun 8, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> I am still waiting for your written assurance in the forum that you have never ever taken the lid off or personally modified your own Tivo(s) due to the alleged electrical safety dangers of doing so which you have enjoyed so sanctimoniously preaching to the rest of us about a few weeks ago. blah, blah, blah.....


Wow!  Just Wow!

Where do I start.

I wasn't aware you'd previously asked for any written asurance - but since you now have, I'll confirm that I have taken the lid off both of myTiVos to modify them - but then I am qualified to do so (I have a degree in Electronic Engineering and several years experience in electrical safety testing of IT equipment). I've also done the same for other TiVo users who lack the skills to do it themselves.

Your point back then was that TiVo's were "designed" to be user-upgradable and that opening up a TiVo was just as safe as opening up a PC. My point was that is it not for reasons I'm not going to repeat here. Nothing has changed in that regard.



Pete77 said:


> The reality is that opening up a Tivo is quite safe as long as.....


The reality is that doing anything is quite safe (TiVo modifications, car repairs, etc.) as long as you know what you're doing. If you don't know what you're doing then get somebody to do the job that does for your own safety.

Regarding your toaster and kettle analogies - I'm sure if you dig out the instructions that come with those appliances you'll find some warnings in there regarding safe use of the product, and the fact that they get hot. However, the examples you've given might result in a nasty burn to anybody that ignores these warnings, but are unlikely to be life threatening in the same way that a belt from the mains could be from your TiVo's PSU.

If you would like to continue this discussion then please start another thread elsewhere, to which I will happily contribute, as I fear to continue here would result in yet another thread being locked for being taken off-topic by your good self.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Benedict said:


> I'll confirm that I have taken the lid off both of myTiVos to modify them


I knew it would turn out to be a case of do as I say and not do as I do.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Sorry pete his post was far from "sanctimoniously preaching", he was merely stating the error of your comparison of TiVo to PC intenals.

PC's are designed to be opened (and so have covered/protected PSUs inside for user modifiaction) 
- TiVo has an unprotected bare PSU - its not *designed *to be end user repaired like PC's are.

(for those interested it was in the midst yet another thread dragged offtopic here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8536992#post8536992)


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## Heuer (Mar 15, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> I would imagine that working underneath a car sitting on axle stands in a home garage as many owners of older cars do every single weekend is in fact a very great deal more dangerous and has resulted in a very great many more serious and unpleasant injuries. Yet strangely it has still not been made illegal for Halfords and other motor accessory stores to sell axle stands and no law has been passed to say that cars can only be raised off the ground on mechanical ramps in professional garages that regularly have their equipment serviced and checked by safety inspectors.


Don't drag us Classic car owners into this although I can't quite fathom your logic here. Axle stands are used to safely support a car off the ground after it has been raised on a jack. The problem comes when you just rely on the jack which could collapse, stands are fixed structures which cannot. Jacks have a safety notice saying axle stands must be used.

TiVo's used Torx screws to deter people from removing the cover as the necessary screwdriver was difficult to obtain 10 years ago. I seem to recall Tivoland etc used to supply the required Torx driver with their HDD upgrade kits.


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## Steve_K (May 5, 2001)

Can't argue with the OP decision but find it difficult to see how anyone out of a Virgin area would stop using a TiVo just because of the cost of the 0845 calls. Yes it's annoying compared to the lifetime service but I get sick of seeing the AltEPG service criticised. It's a lot of free EPG and advice from what must have been serious hard work and the hardware is available to make it free net access. 

So even with my 2 Sky+ boxes and a BT Vision I'm still likely to give try AltEPG a serious try (just need to buy one of Mike's Freeview boxes it seems). Even after 10 years, nothing matches the TiVo user interface.


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> in the USA and/or globally where Lifetime Subs have only been offered for a small percentage of the total time that Tivos have been on sale worldwide.


Wrong.


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## Benedict (Jun 8, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> I knew it would turn out to be a case of do as I say and not do as I do.


Words fail me!

Last post from me on this.

Do you actually read what people have written, or only the parts that suit your argument? You missed out an important part of what I said



Benedict said:


> I'll confirm that I have taken the lid off both of myTiVos to modify them - *but then I am qualified to do so*


The inside of a TiVo is dangerous - FACT - and therefore access shouldn't be attempted unless you know what you are doing.

On the other hand I am not CORGI qualified so would never attempt to repair my boiler if it broke down - even if I thought I might be able to. A little knowlege can be a dangerous thing - something which you continue to demonstrate on a regular basis!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Benedict said:


> The inside of a TiVo is dangerous - FACT - and therefore access shouldn't be attempted unless you know what you are doing.


Then I am surprised that you have not also called for www.tivoland.com and www.tivocentral.co.uk to desist from selling any Tivo upgrade products that clearly encourage people who don't know what they are doing and/or do not hold electrical safety qualifications to open up their Tivos themselves. They even provide the tools that enable people to gain access to the electrically unsafe area of their Tivo.

I am also surprised that you have never ever commented on these electrical safety dangers in the thousands of other threads on this forum that have discussed accessing the innards of a Tivo by people who are not qualified to do so in order to replace their hard drive on the cheap compared to the little used option of sending the entire machine away to have it upgraded by someone who does have the relevant training certificates.

It seems to me that you only actually raise these electrical safety arguments when it suits you when you also have some other personalised dislike of the person who makes a post talking about opening up and working on a Tivo.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

It's up to the individual concerned whether or not they consider themselves competent, and they take on themselves the risks of doing so.

That has nothing whatsoever to do with the argument (which has somehow transported itself from another thread for no obvious reason) that you make that the S1 TiVo is DESIGNED to be user serviceable.

The uncovered PSU is clear evidence that this is not the case, as any product which is user serviceable must pass certain safety tests, which the S1 would self evidently fail.

There is other evidence; not least that there are no potentially user serviceable parts inside, with the possible exception of the CMOS battery. The hard disk is only replaceable because of 3rd party hacks which reverse engineered parts of the OS; TiVo did not intend to make it replaceable.

The TiVo has a sticker on it warning you not to open it, the instruction manual says not to open it, and opening it requires special tools.

From the manual:



> Never remove the top cover from the TiVo Recorder. There are no user
> serviceable parts inside it


Despite this you believe it was designed to be opened.

What is your evidence for that?


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## ash10 (Jul 8, 2004)

^ You forgot to mention the razor-sharp internal metalwork


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

ash10 said:


> ^ You forgot to mention the razor-sharp internal metalwork


Yes, managed to slice a finger while getting a TiVo back into operation to run some scripts for AltEPG!


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## Benedict (Jun 8, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> It seems to me that you only actually raise these electrical safety arguments when it suits you when you also have some other personalised dislike of the person who makes a post talking about opening up and working on a Tivo.


Who do I dislike exactly?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

OK I admit that I even ran the Tivo with the power on and no cover for a while when I was upgrading the hard drive and/or after I had replaced the power supply (a far more genuinely dangerous process I would say than simply replacing the hard drive but one actively encourage by one of the now retired Tivo upgrading leading lights).

I bet some of you here are no doubt sorry that I did not prove to be as electrically incompetent as you would no doubt believe me to be when I was doing all of this................


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Benedict said:


> Who do I dislike exactly?


Surely I am long established as being a forum bogey man so several people always alter their lines of argument in order to take the maximum opportunity to try and knock me.

I'm not suggesting that its anything especially personal between you and me. Just that you are clearly joining in with the other members of the let's wind up Pete gang.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

*NEXT OFF-TOPIC POST WILL CLOSE THIS THREAD TOO*


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## johnscott99 (Sep 23, 2002)

I have a Humax T2 HD freeview PVR and I'm keeping my TiVo. 

I'm also looking for another cheap TiVo. 

Given the handfull of HD channel coming in August, there is no point dropping the TiVo in favour of Humax. 

I'm gonna use Humax for HD recording and TiVo for every thing else. When there is a clash of 3 channels, I'll use both.


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## Fred Smith (Oct 5, 2002)

johnscott99 said:


> Given the handfull of HD channel coming in August, there is no point dropping the TiVo in favour of Humax.


What HD channels are coming in August a search (of the net) reveals nothing?


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## Diamond Mike (Dec 21, 2002)

Fred Smith said:


> What HD channels are coming in August a search (of the net) reveals nothing?


I too have looked everywhere I can think of, to no avail.

PS Thank goodness this thread is back on track, I was beginning to wonder what I had started!


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Fred Smith said:


> What HD channels are coming in August a search (of the net) reveals nothing?


I'm guessing the poster is referring to digital switchover in their area which will give them the Freeview HD channels. For me that's November.

FWIW I set up a Window7 media center [sic] PC with twin Freeview and a Freesat HD tuner with an Xbox extender in another room.
Given the AltEPG I'll probably keep Tivo for kids programmes though that wasn't my original plan it seems some family members aren't prepared to give it up 

My parents moved on to a Humax and my brother was able to get a Virgin cable Tivo.


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## johnscott99 (Sep 23, 2002)

Yes.

In my area the freeview switchover will happen in August and then we will get freeview HD.

Humax is ok, but it's filled up really quickly - whereas TiVo rarely filled up (old recordings that we were obviously not that bothered about dropping off the bottom). 

I'm going to upgrade my TiVo HDD to 500Gb and Humax to 2Tb. 
TiVo in the month (HDD ready with AltEPG - just waiting for us to finish watching Glasto)
Humax to 2tb before Christmas. ~£60


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