# I sure miss my TiVo



## Jeff412 (Dec 13, 2000)

I've been a TiVo fan since 2000 and finally had to give it up because of the lack of HD Satellite support. I switched to the Dish 722 DVR. I don't know how anyone could say that it's better than TiVo. I've had it since the first of December and it is just missing too many of the TiVo features I've grown to love. Is there anything coming for us poor unfortunate Satellite users?

Jeff


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Yes.

Just not for you.

There is a new TiVo-based DVR due 2Q 2009 for DircTV, but not for Dish.

Sorry.


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## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

I still use my HR10-250 for HD locals and the HR20 for the rest. I cant wait for new DVR so I will have 3.....


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

TonyTheTiger said:


> Yes.
> 
> Just not for you.
> 
> ...


To clarify. The initial press release stated 2nd half of 2009, not 2nd quarter. And Tivo just recently stated that it was delayed until at least mid-2010. And they wouldn't even talk about it at CES. In other worlds it's going to be a long while.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

shibby191 said:


> To clarify. The initial press release stated 2nd half of 2009, not 2nd quarter. And Tivo just recently stated that it was delayed until at least mid-2010. And they wouldn't even talk about it at CES. In other worlds it's going to be a long while.


If at all...

DirecTV hasn't said a word about it either...


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

Well I guess DirecTV won't be getting my business for a while then.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

I was hoping that my HR10 would last until the new TiVo came out. But, with DirecTV shutting down the MPEG2 streams, I need the extra tuners for conflicts. So I may have to get another HR2x to supplement my HR20.


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## Jeff412 (Dec 13, 2000)

Is there no way that they could come up with a stand alone TiVo that would record from HDMI? I wouldn't mind going back to 1 tuner if I could get my TiVo back.

Jeff


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Jeff412 said:


> Is there no way that they could come up with a stand alone TiVo that would record from HDMI? I wouldn't mind going back to 1 tuner if I could get my TiVo back.
> 
> Jeff


No, there isn't any legal way to do that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdcp


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## Jeff412 (Dec 13, 2000)

How about component? It doesn't have the HDCP issues that HDMI would have.

Jeff


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

HDMI was designed to be not recordable. The only consumer equipment I know of that can record HD from component video is a Hauppauge video capture device for PCs.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Jeff412 said:


> How about component? It doesn't have the HDCP issues that HDMI would have.
> 
> Jeff


Good idea in theory but if there was a mass consumer device that did this then the studios would enforce the long held threat of downressing the component output to SD so the only way you could even see HD would be thru the HDMI ports. And nobody wants that. I'm not sure if there is a DVD writer that takes a component in but I don't think so. If so it's not gotten popular either because of price or because of lawsuits. DRM is a b!tch.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Jeff412 said:


> How about component?...


This would imply the recording device have an MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 encoder.

MPEG encoding/decoding is designed so that the cost and sophistication goes into the encoder side, and that simplicity and economy go into the decoder side. The idea is that there will be few encoders, but millions of STBs and HDTVs with decoders, and this allows the STB to be made economically.

I don't know if there is yet a consumer level MPEG encoder that would both have decent HD quality (especially since re-encoding from analog implies a PQ hit) and real-time capability at an affordable price, but my best guess is probably not. If we had such a thing it would be either a very expensive hardware card, or a software solution that would probably only run on very fast PCs.


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## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

TyroneShoes said:


> I don't know if there is yet a consumer level MPEG encoder that would both have decent HD quality (especially since re-encoding from analog implies a PQ hit) and real-time capability at an affordable price, but my best guess is probably not. If we had such a thing it would be either a very expensive hardware card, or a software solution that would probably only run on very fast PCs.


It exists. I have one of these:

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html

Works great. A PQ hit? Yes, but still looks about 90% as good as the source, as long as you don't throttle down the bit rate too far.


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## TallShip (Jan 29, 2005)

I have three HR10-250s an HR20. I am replacing a power supply in one of the HR10-250s
this week - apparently they don't last forever.

Whenever they actually shut down the first MPEG-2 channels I will be turning off all of my premium programming. I hope at that time there is a real date for the new HD DirecTivo box, or I may move on. 

XBox+Netflix is a pretty good source for on-demand HD content, and a lot cheaper than premium channels with DTV. Amazing that they are able to deliver HD content in real time via the internet on (in my case) a cable modem. XBox Live delivers addtional HD content on ppv basis.


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## GalenMD (Apr 13, 2002)

I had a DirecTV installer come to my home today to re-install/align my dish after some construction. Unlike others I have met, this person seemed extremely knowledgeable, and a huge Tivo fan. He said that he was at a recent DirecTV meeting where they discussed the new TiVo. He believes that it will be released in approximately 6 months.

That info is probably not worth anything, but you never know.

Anyway, where is the discussion thread for this upcoming (?) box?


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

shibby191 said:


> To clarify. The initial press release stated 2nd half of 2009, not 2nd quarter. And Tivo just recently stated that it was delayed until at least mid-2010. And they wouldn't even talk about it at CES. In other worlds it's going to be a long while.


Is there a source for "delayed until at least mid-2010"? Tom Rogers said at the recent media conference that the DTV box would be "next year" which would be 2010 (assuming he's talking calendar and not fiscal year) but nothing he says implies it will be a long while. In fact, he says that Tivo's lack of an HD satellite box will be a problem for "a short period of time."


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Adam1115 said:


> If at all...
> 
> DirecTV hasn't said a word about it either...


That would make no sense. DirecTV has agreed to start paying increasingly higher minimum monthly fees to TiVo starting in 2010. They only get full value from that if by charging certain development fees against it.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

nrc said:


> Is there a source for "delayed until at least mid-2010"? Tom Rogers said at the recent media conference that the DTV box would be "next year" which would be 2010 (assuming he's talking calendar and not fiscal year) but nothing he says implies it will be a long while. In fact, he says that Tivo's lack of an HD satellite box will be a problem for "a short period of time."


As I recall, Tom Rogers said it would be next year at the Citi Global conference.

But I find it odd that there was no mention at CES by either TiVo or DirecTV.

Hey, I hope it happens, I'll be first in line signing back up for DirecTV...!


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Adam1115 said:


> As I recall, Tom Rogers said it would be next year at the Citi Global conference.
> 
> But I find it odd that there was no mention at CES by either TiVo or DirecTV.
> 
> Hey, I hope it happens, I'll be first in line signing back up for DirecTV...!


Correct, Rogers stated at the Citi conference it was delayed and would be into 2010.

Tivo has been talking up the product a lot but suddenly at CES they don't have anything to show and then they won't even talk about it other then "no comment". That's definitely not good.

DirecTV has never said one word about the project other then the initial press release back last summer.

Certainly if we connect the dots it means for sure the project is delayed (until at least 2010) and at worse is on hold or canceled.

Certainly I don't think anyone is saying that's a good thing (I'm not). Competition is good and it would be good to have an option. But right now the odds are looking long for it being released at all and at the least it's going to be another year or so.

Like anything I never base *my personal* decisions on press releases and vaporware. When I see a box at the next CES with an announcement it's will be out in a certain time period then I'll start to believe. I feel sorry for people that don't base their financial decisions on reality and only on vaporware and press releases.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

shibby191 said:


> ...When I see a box at the next CES with an announcement it's will be out in a certain time period then I'll start to believe. I feel sorry for people that don't base their financial decisions on reality and only on vaporware and press releases.


I don't start to believe until its been on the shelf at BB for 3 months and the internet forums have already given it a good rep and track record.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

videojanitor said:


> It exists. I have one of these:
> 
> http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html
> 
> Works great. A PQ hit? Yes, but still looks about 90% as good as the source, as long as you don't throttle down the bit rate too far.


What you say "exists" in no way matches the requirements I listed. 5 mbps max? If DTV reduced their HD channels to 5 mbps, everyone here would scream bloody murder.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

TyroneShoes said:


> I don't start to believe until its been on the shelf at BB for 3 months and the internet forums have already given it a good rep and track record.


Considering TiVo's track record that isn't a bad approach. 
Lot of things could and do happen with electronics advances. If TiVo is planning to use existing DirecTV hardware by the time software is ported the hardware could be more or less obsolete. If you take a look at VIP922 from Dish, HR21 hardware doesn't cut it anymore. Perhaps TiVo and Direct are looking at the possibility of developing all new unit that would substantially delay release date.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

samo said:


> ...If you take a look at VIP922 from Dish, HR21 hardware doesn't cut it anymore...


I did, and I don't see your point. You are going to have to elaborate.

The only thing about the "hardware" that is different is the addition of SlingBox. That is probably only as revolutionary as combining a TV and a VCR; less so, because sling appeals to a very narrow market. It is not really even evolutionary to put two unremarkable existing products in the same box. If you don't want SlingBox or already have it, there is no technical advantage whatsoever to the other 97% of the marketplace. The ability to do RSS is a software issue, which could easily be implemented on "hardware" that is already internet capable, which includes all HR2x DVRs. Don't be shocked when this happens, and very soon (DTV is nothing if not derivative of the rest of the market).

My experience with recent DISH DVRs is that they simply blow. Out loud.


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## Jeff412 (Dec 13, 2000)

As soon as it becomes available, if it becomes available, I will be on the bandwagon. After fighting with this Dish garbage for the last two months "I sure miss my TiVo".

Jeff


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

shibby191 said:


> DirecTV has never said one word about the project other then the initial press release back last summer.


I count more than one word here.










Credit: weaknees


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

nrc said:


> I count more than one word here.


That wasn't at CES....


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Adam1115 said:


> That wasn't at CES....


What has CES got to do with shibby's claim that DirecTV has never said one word about the project other then the initial press release?

DirecTV wasn't even at CES.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

nrc said:


> What has CES got to do with shibby's claim that DirecTV has never said one word about the project other then the initial press release?
> 
> DirecTV wasn't even at CES.


Sorry, got lost in the replies.

What I should've said was that it's odd that nothing was announced or commented on at cES.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

nrc said:


> What has CES got to do with shibby's claim that DirecTV has never said one word about the project other then the initial press release?
> 
> DirecTV wasn't even at CES.


Ooooooooo, ok, DirecTV put out one press release and one announcement on Tivo DVRs. Sorry.

It's never been brought up once at any of the several investor calls, financial conferences or future guidance calls and not one single question from the press or wall street has been asked about the Tivo deal. In other words DirecTV themselves and certainly the street don't feel it's a big deal to DirecTV one way or another.

Certainly doesn't mean it's not a good idea. It's just that DirecTV obviously doesn't feel it's a top priority. It's all in Tivo's court which Tivo has basically stated in their several talks on the matter (they talked it up a lot in the last 6 months). Again, nothing wrong with that.

The new news now is just that it's been officially delayed by Tivo (the reason is unknown) and now they won't even talk about it which certainly isn't a good sign. DirecTV making no comment at CES certainly is no surprise since 1) They weren't at CES and 2) They haven't said a thing about it anyway since the original announcement.

Hopefully Tivo will have some more details upcoming but for now people need to just be prepared that it's not coming anytime soon and will be at least a year out. Personally I think it would be great to have a Tivo option. Doesn't matter to me what my DVR GUI is, so long as it works.


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## Jeff412 (Dec 13, 2000)

shibby191 said:


> Personally I think it would be great to have a Tivo option. Doesn't matter to me what my DVR GUI is, so long as it works.


The dish DVR GUI works and seems to work well. However, it doesn't have the flexibility that TiVo has. I primarily miss the search features on the TiVo. For example. If I want to record "survivor". On Dish I enter survivor and I get a list sorted by date and time. It will list every instance of survivor, survivorman, and *survivor* that is showing during the next 2 weeks. With TiVo I would just get a list of shows and not every instance.

Jeff


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