# Is the season pass manager flawed?



## rwtomkins (Jul 14, 2003)

Do other members find the season pass manager simply "forgets" season passes if they aren't used for a long time? For example, I have a longstanding season pass for "Wire in the Blood" on ITV1, which has worked without any problems in the past. The pass is still clearly listed by the season pass manager yet TiVo has not scheduled itself to record the new series of "Wire in the Blood" starting on ITV1 this evening.

There is no program conflict or season pass conflict to prevent it doing its duty. If I go to the To Do list, "Wire in the Blood" is listed neither as program scheduled to be recorded nor under "view recording history" as a program not to be recorded. It's just as though the season pass didn't exist - yet there it is, clearly listed by the season pass manager.

Also, if I go to the season pass for "Wire in the Blood" and click on "view upcoming episodes", it says there aren't any.

I've had this happen with several different series in the past. Can anyone suggest why?

Haven't seen this covered before but many apologies if it has.


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## BaggieBoy (Dec 4, 2000)

This usually happens when the "ID" for a new season of an existing programme is entered as a different value from what was used in the past. The probem is, if you create a new season pass, you might find it suddenly stops working when someone realises the new ID is wrong and reverts to the old one.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Yet another reason to use wishlists


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

If the id has changed, it should allow you to create a duplicate (named) season pass, leaving the old one as it is?

I've never seen this problem before,but I do tend to delete old season passes and then add them back the next year 
- silly but I'm tidy like that !

[edit] Yes, a title wishlist would solve it, but they have their own problems:
e.g. the title of the series changes slightly, 
or another channel decides to show 3 year old episodes...


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

mikerr said:


> If the id has changed, it should allow you to create a duplicate (named) season pass, leaving the old one as it is?


It does. There are a couple of times when I've had two SPs for the same show when this has happened for programmes I watch


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## rwtomkins (Jul 14, 2003)

Thanks guys - another mystery solved. Do you know, in all these years I've never tried the wishlist function. Still learning...


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## smokie (Dec 27, 2002)

Au contraire to the original post. Going back some years, one of the many drop-jaw-in-amazement moments I've had with TiVo was when a particualr SP'd series came back after a year or two's break and the TiVo caught it.


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## gazter (Aug 1, 2001)

rwtomkins said:


> Do other members find the season pass manager simply "forgets" season passes if they aren't used for a long time? For example, I have a longstanding season pass for "Wire in the Blood" on ITV1, which has worked without any problems in the past. The pass is still clearly listed by the season pass manager yet TiVo has not scheduled itself to record the new series of "Wire in the Blood" starting on ITV1 this evening.
> 
> There is no program conflict or season pass conflict to prevent it doing its duty. If I go to the To Do list, "Wire in the Blood" is listed neither as program scheduled to be recorded nor under "view recording history" as a program not to be recorded. It's just as though the season pass didn't exist - yet there it is, clearly listed by the season pass manager.
> 
> ...


It might be considered flawed but only in the way that Perfection is impossible to achieve.

No other PVR has a season pass manager like Tivos, not even something kind of like Season Pass, i know of no PVR that has a fraction of the functionality of Season Pass....


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Cue a certain Windows MCE user to explain that he get the functionality for nothing


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

gazter said:


> No other PVR has a season pass manager like Tivos, not even something kind of like Season Pass, i know of no PVR that has a fraction of the functionality of Season Pass....


Windows MCE has all of the functionality of Season Passes and Wishlists, although it suffers from the same problem of inaccurate guide data. The major problem is that it tends to try and record all episodes, however may times in a week it is repeated.

However, MCE is somewhat better integrated than the TiVo, in that you can view and edit series data from within a recorded item. That allows you to easily cancel a series after viewing an episode and finding you don't like it.

Also the ability to display recorded episodes within programme folders, and the automatic display of a thumbnail from the recording, makes it much easier to tidy up duplicate episodes.

MCE's handling of episodes that it can't record is much better in that it still shows them in the 'To Do' list (with an icon), and it has a conflict manager that allows you to select which programmes to record. That is especially useful when you have multiple tuners.

Nothing a late-model multi-tuner TiVo couldn't do, but that's not an option we currently have.


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## steford (Oct 9, 2002)

smokie said:


> Au contraire to the original post. Going back some years, one of the many drop-jaw-in-amazement moments I've had with TiVo was when a particualr SP'd series came back after a year or two's break and the TiVo caught it.


That's my experience too. Tivo finds it hard to "let go" it seems to me.


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## PhilG (Jan 15, 2002)

blindlemon said:


> Yet another reason to use wishlists


And if you change your mind a lot (like I do) with a wishlist it's easy to turn the "on" and "off", unlike a season pass which you have to delete and recreate

Phil G


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

PhilG said:


> And if you change your mind a lot (like I do) with a wishlist it's easy to turn the "on" and "off", unlike a season pass which you have to delete and recreate


Yes true but using Wishlists as a replacement for SPs doesn't work very well for any new series that is also extensively repeated with old episodes on UK Gold Sky3, BBC Four or wherever else. Wishlists would be perfect if you could specify that they only worked on certain channels or that they worked on all channels with the specific exception of certain named channels.

For all I know on Tivo software version 9 or whatever they are now on in the USA things have now reached that stage of perfection but sadly this is not the case here in the forgotten UK.

Unlike mikerr I never normally delete an SP for a series that I think will come back and I only delete SPs for series that I know were a one off. My own experience is that they continue to work a year or more later for major BBC1, BBC 2, ITV1 etc series with lots of episodes that Tribune bothers to link properly but things can go awry on lesser known programs on lesser channels and/or with a short run series of only 3 or 4 episodes.

My belief is that staff at Tribune have a list of major series like Eastenders, Top Gear, Formula One Racing etc that they always relentlessly check to make sure things are working properly, because they know the solids will hit the air conditioning if they mess these up. But for lesser series its a matter of luck and depends on how the data was provided by the channels themselves and whether staff at Tribune are paying attention.

But anyone who has only ever used a Sky+ Series Link is still likely to find Tivo Season Passes a minor miracle.......


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Cue a certain Windows MCE user to explain that he get the functionality for nothing


It seems the other Windows MCE disciple in this forum beat the one in St Ives to it.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Pete77 said:


> Wishlists would be perfect if you could specify that they only worked on certain channels or that they worked on all channels with the specific exception of certain named channels.


Do-able with only minor changes to the blocklist module...
- something like never record "the bill" on channel "UK Gold" via a wishlist.

Matching a rule up to a specific wishlist would be a major change though,


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> Do-able with only minor changes to the blocklist module below...
> - something like never record "the bill" on channel "UK Gold" via a wishlist.


How about the other way round - e.g only record "Top Gear" on "BBC2". Of course I suppose that could be reversed to never record "Top Gear" on any channel that is not BBC2...........


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## Benedict (Jun 8, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> e.g only record "Top Gear" on "BBC2".


Wouldn't that then be the same as a season pass?


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

gazter said:


> It might be considered flawed but only in the way that Perfection is impossible to achieve.
> 
> No other PVR has a season pass manager like Tivos, not even something kind of like Season Pass, i know of no PVR that has a fraction of the functionality of Season Pass....


You must not know of MythTV. It has more functionality in its recurring recordings than TiVo's Season Pass.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Benedict said:


> Wouldn't that then be the same as a season pass?


No because unlike a Season Pass the Wishlist would still record "Top Gear" on BBC2 even if Tribune's staff messed up and gave a new series of "Top Gear" on BBC2 a different Series ID. OK this isn't that common with Top Gear but it is a more regular problem with lesser series on minor channels. With a Wishlist assigned to a specific channel the recording would only fail if Tribune gave the series a different series name and not simply because they failed to continue the Series ID.

Also one might want a Wishlist that would operate across say just three channels but not simply on any and all channels in Channels I Receive. Again a Season Pass can't do that.


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## johala_reewi (Oct 30, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> ... but it is a more regular problem with lesser series on minor channels...


Like Watchdog on BBC1 and Tonight on ITV 

Watchdog now has 2 series IDs and episodes seem to be assigned at random to either of them.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

johala_reewi said:


> Like Watchdog on BBC1 and Tonight on ITV
> 
> Watchdog now has 2 series IDs and episodes seem to be assigned at random to either of them.


I doubt that Watchdog and especially Tonight (a news program designed to be watched live as it is otherwise out of date) are actually very heavily recorded programs by Tivo owners.

I suspect the Tribune hit list (if it exists) focuses mainly on programs shown between 7pm and 11pm on BBC1, BBC2, ITV1, C4, Five and Sky One.


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## Benedict (Jun 8, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> ....a news program designed to be watched live as it is otherwise out of date....


My TiVo records the 6 o'clock news each night so I can start watching it when I get in at 6:15.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Pete77 said:


> I doubt that Watchdog and especially Tonight (a news program designed to be watched *live *as it is otherwise out of date) are actually very heavily recorded programs by Tivo owners.


I for one record Tonight (and the news!) and don't all TiVo owners avoid live TV anyway?
It doesn't go "out of date" if you watch it within a day or so.

Regarding which programmes are heavily recorded by tivo owners;
tivo themselves might know - is it uploaded as part fo the daily call? - but they wouldn't tell us.

If we all installed tivotokens ( I think that collected data too), then we could have a "most popular recorded programmes" chart... but it would be a small subset of total tivo users....


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## AENG (Dec 20, 2000)

mikerr said:


> and don't all TiVo owners avoid live TV anyway?


I certainly do. And unless there's some really visual event, not just fatuous "talking heads" and "here's-a-pretty-picture-even-though-it's-not-really-news", the same goes for TV news bulletins, too.


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> I doubt that Watchdog and especially Tonight (a news program *(sic)* designed to be watched live as it is otherwise out of date) are actually very heavily recorded programs by Tivo owners.


I record Channel 4 News every night, and a two hour chunk of News24 every Saturday; if I don't watch Channel 4 News on the day, I'll watch it the next day.

The Times is known as the "Paper of Record"; 
that's how I use Channel 4 News; 
if I see a news item a day late, I still value the information: 
and anyway, news that's out of date is History, isn't it?


> especially Tonight (a news program designed to be watched live


I'm quoting this again because I don't see how you've reached this conclusion.  
How would you design a programme "to be watched live"?
Ask for audience feedback? That doesn't happen on "Tonight".
Broadcast the entire show live? That doesn't happen on "Tonight" either.
Every "Tonight" I've seen has what may be a live intro and outro from Sir Trevor, with the bulk of the programme being a playback of a recorded piece.


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## Pugwash (May 23, 2003)

The one time I remember my season passes failing was when I moved house. I changed BBC1 regions and finally figured it out a few weeks later by setting the season pass up again for the new channel.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Pugwash said:


> The one time I remember my season passes failing was when I moved house. I changed BBC1 regions and finally figured it out a few weeks later by setting the season pass up again for the new channel.


It should still have gone on recording the SP for your old BBC regions with the channels now in the 97x range. Unless you deleted them.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

> It should still have gone recording the SP for your old BBC regions with the channels now in the 97x range. Unless you deleted them


.

That would only apply if the Tivo was seeing a Sky STB as its source and not a cable or Freeview box


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

RichardJH said:


> .
> 
> That would only apply if the Tivo was seeing a Sky STB as its source and not a cable or Freeview box


Not true. I have previously changed my Tivo from a Freeview to an NTL Cable setup and froom a Freeview only to a Freeview and Sky Digital combined source and in all cases the SPs have been retained. The Freeview to NTL switch involved changing regions from South East to London and SPs carried on with no problem but on different channel numbers on BBC1, BBC2, ITV1 and C4.


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## Benedict (Jun 8, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Not true. I have previously changed my Tivo from a Freeview to an NTL Cable setup and froom a Freeview only to a Freeview and Sky Digital combined source and in all cases the SPs have been retained. The Freeview to NTL switch involved changing regions from South East to London and SPs carried on with no problem but on different channel numbers on BBC1, BBC2, ITV1 and C4.


The original poster of (Pugwash) appears to be using FreeView as his source (according to his sig.)

In this case it's very unlikely he would have access to his previous BBC1/ITV1 region on any channel number following a house move, hence his season passes no longer working.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Benedict said:


> In this case it's very unlikely he would have access to his previous BBC1/ITV1 region on any channel number following a house move, hence his season passes no longer working.


I suppose you are saying that the regions for analogue are different on Tivo from the digital ones because they are much more detailed and specific? Thus they have no direct BBC regional equivalents on a digital tv platform for Tivo to select?

Having never used analogue channels in any quantity on my Tivo, even before I went dual Freeview and Freesat source instead of Freeview only or NTL only I am not in a position to comment.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

If the outgoing channel is still in TiVo - the SP may still work even if you change region.

So if you live in Granadaland and set Taggart SP on ITV1GRA (which is on 103 on Sky) and you then move to London, your default 103 becomes ITV1LON. But the SP for ITV1GRA will still go to 103 even if ITV1GRA is not set in your 'channels I receive'. Of cause Sky will actually switch to ITV1LON - but as ITV1 has virtually no non-news region programmes their is a 98% chance the correct programme will still be recorded.

As long as the old SP callsign matches the new channels EPG number - you'll most likely be OK.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

AIUI SPs are locked to callsigns (ITV1GRA) not channel numbers (103).

So if you moved outside a granada area (and updated the postcode on tivo), then the SP would still work, but recording from channel 793 (ITV1GRA).

That's on sky where they give you access to all regions, freeview/cable and analogue are obvously limited to your own region only.

So the SP will fail if it can't find a callsign to match in the current EPG (ITV1GRA)

Or is the above a load of tosh, and SPs are locked to channel numbers (103) ?


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

SPs are locked to callsigns - and if you set an SP on an ITV1GRA programme - as long as it not ticked in 'Channels I Receive' - it will change the Sky box to 103 - as long as you are in England on TiVo.

793 is MATV National ???

This is why when BBC/ITV regions change - TiVo leaves the old regions in as well - so old SPs continue to work.

My Taggart SP worked last week as a part on ITV1CEN - but our region changed last year to ITV1TVN.


You can prove this by trying out a SP on a different ITV region - in fact a bug in the channel list usually gives you the wrong region in the channel list.


The reason it works (and only on Sky) is that TiVo provides all the England ITV1 region listings on 103 - as the postcode is not used by TiVo for Sky.


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