# Moxi or continue with Series 3?



## dtee (Sep 29, 2006)

My 3 year prepaid subscription is up in January. I called to ask if the Lifetime option listed at $399. was for real. They said it was , even after 3 years without the original option for a lifetime plan. That is ridiculous. I would go for lifetime for another $200. but $399. is simply highway robbery. 
Enter the MOXI. I can buy a new machine with the same two tuners for $499., with no recurring fees. For another $299. I can pick up a Moxi mate thing and now have a competent DVR (unlike the Verizon house brand) for 2 TV's. 
Now I really love my Series 3 and yes I could possibly ,down the road E-bay the Lifetime Subscription with the Series 3 , but the Series 3 would be at least 4 years old by then. 
Such a dilemma. Keeping the Tivo is the easy decision, but I am pissed at paying more each month on an aging machine. The Moxi is the adventurous decision, but will a Moxi be as comfortable as the Tivo. 
Any help would be appreciated.

PS. This whole subscription thing is bound to end one day as there is no one I personally know who is willing to pay for cable and a Tivo sub. No matter how great those other people think it is . If the Moxi is able to get any traction at all, the Tivo model is doomed.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

If you don't need following features TiVo has that Moxi doesn't then Moxi will probably suit you just fine:
- Transfers to a PC
- Advanced Wishlists
- OTA support
- Great 3rd party tools

(1st 2 are deal breakers for me).


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

You can see a Moxi v. TiVo feature comparison right here.

Many expect TiVo to show a new, improved DVR in early January, so you might want to delay your decision until then. TiVo's CEO said the company would have a DVR with "new user interface features" and "product improvements" for sale at Best Buy in early 2010.


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

moyekj said:


> - OTA support


This one is the deal killer for me. I don't even have cable anymore. OTA only with fill-ins via Amazon on Demand (also not available on Moxi).


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

dtee said:


> My 3 year prepaid subscription is up in January. I called to ask if the Lifetime option listed at $399. was for real. They said it was , even after 3 years without the original option for a lifetime plan. That is ridiculous. I would go for lifetime for another $200. but $399. is simply highway robbery.
> ...PS. This whole subscription thing is bound to end one day as there is no one I personally know who is willing to pay for cable and a Tivo sub. No matter how great those other people think it is . If the Moxi is able to get any traction at all, the Tivo model is doomed.


Did you buy your Tivo in the time where there was no lifetime subscription? If not, why didn't you get the lifetime then? I really don't see why the lifetime price should be lowered because you've been paying for 3 years so far..

BTW, I don't think the subscription thing will end -- it seems to me that MORE devices are trying to get subscription money out of us. One issue in this specific case though is that Tivos with cablecards *CAN* be cheaper than a cable company DVR, but most people don't do the exact comparison. (I'll even ignore the better feature set that most if not all of us think Tivos have.)

(BTW II -- I personally am a lifetime subscription person all the way. As much as I would hate it, if my Tivos died and we couldn't get any recorder with a one-time-payment system, I'd likely go back to manual recording on multiple boxes or a standalone computer with many tuners.... I say that and I admit that I could even end up paying the SAME as monthly subscription if a new improved Tivo came out tomorrow that I really wanted. That is, the cost/month to me *could* be just as much.. but I want the option of not having to keep paying and keeping it for a long time.)


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

mattack said:


> Did you buy your Tivo in the time where there was no lifetime subscription?


Yeah he did. (You can tell from his expiration date.) All the early Series 3 adopters are screwed this way. I would've bought lifetime then if I could, but it wasn't available. Sucks to be us.


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## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

dtee said:


> PS. This whole subscription thing is bound to end one day as there is no one I personally know who is willing to pay for cable and a Tivo sub. *No matter how great those other people think it is *. If the Moxi is able to get any traction at all, *the Tivo model is doomed*.


Sigh...

Isn't using one of those asinine red thumbs down icons mandatory for these type threads?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

wmcbrine said:


> Yeah he did. (You can tell from his expiration date.) All the early Series 3 adopters are screwed this way. I would've bought lifetime then if I could, but it wasn't available. Sucks to be us.


Absolutey....I bought my original S3 the day they came....Sept. 12, 2006...


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

TIVO should step up to the plate on this one and give at least a 50&#37; discount on a lifetime subscription to the S3 early adopters.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

No no... a 90&#37; discount. And we should all be sent TiVo S4s for free.


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## routerspecialist (Jun 19, 2008)

Buy a Moxi! Check out my post when I made the mistake of buying a "lifetime" subscription. Don't trust Tivo, if they can, they'll screw you!


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

routerspecialist said:


> Buy a Moxi! Check out my post when I made the mistake of buying a "lifetime" subscription. Don't trust Tivo, if they can, they'll screw you!


Exactly what part of lifetime service not being transferable to another Tivo did you not understand when you chose to purchase lifetime subscriptions? Spending$299 or $399 on something you don't understand is your mistake, its not something that Tivo should be expected to pay for.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

routerspecialist said:


> Buy a Moxi! Check out my post when I made the mistake of buying a "lifetime" subscription. Don't trust Tivo, if they can, they'll screw you!


And where is the issue of trust here? They are exactly fulfilling the agreement, and you want to break the agreement. Who is trustworthy?


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## dtee (Sep 29, 2006)

My original point was that when I purchased my Series 3, Lifetime subscriptions were not available. Now Tivo wants to charge us early adopters an additional $399. for lifetime , when had it been available originally I would have purchased it then. My total cost for subscriptions would have been, $399. Now it will be $299. plus $399. A total difference of $300. dollars. That is what the early adopters get. I remember struggling with the Tivo tech and the Fios guy over 3 days to get this implemented. I am saying that there should be some accommodation. That's all.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

Why would you want a moxi when you have a tivo. I had 3 moxi boxes from my cable company. I had 3 because they broke all the time about every 6 months.

my 3 year 6.95 a month subscription will be up soon. I can get the life time for 299.99. Dont know what i will do. I might get the 1 year prepaid.

My tivo s2 is about 7 years old and it keeps working. i did replace the drive. You should not worry about it aging.



dtee said:


> My 3 year prepaid subscription is up in January. I called to ask if the Lifetime option listed at $399. was for real. They said it was , even after 3 years without the original option for a lifetime plan. That is ridiculous. I would go for lifetime for another $200. but $399. is simply highway robbery.
> Enter the MOXI. I can buy a new machine with the same two tuners for $499., with no recurring fees. For another $299. I can pick up a Moxi mate thing and now have a competent DVR (unlike the Verizon house brand) for 2 TV's.
> Now I really love my Series 3 and yes I could possibly ,down the road E-bay the Lifetime Subscription with the Series 3 , but the Series 3 would be at least 4 years old by then.
> Such a dilemma. Keeping the Tivo is the easy decision, but I am pissed at paying more each month on an aging machine. The Moxi is the adventurous decision, but will a Moxi be as comfortable as the Tivo.
> ...


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

tootal2 said:


> Why would you want a moxi when you have a tivo. I had 3 moxi boxes from my cable company. I had 3 because they broke all the time about every 6 months.
> 
> .


The Moxi boxes you got from your cable company is different from the ones you buy at Retail.

The hardware is different and feature set as well.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

fatlard said:


> The Moxi boxes you got from your cable company is different from the ones you buy at Retail.
> 
> The hardware is different and feature set as well.


The latest version of the Moxi for cable companies uses hardware and software that is almost identical to the version for retail. It has the same CPU, HD UI, etc, but it adds the hardware to support cable company VOD. It also lacks support for PC videos.

Moxi DVR functionality hasn't changed much in the new boxes. The newest Moxis for retail and cable feature a much nicer UI than the original Motorola hardware, as it was enhanced for 16:9 HD with sharper text and higher-resolution graphics.

The Moxi is a substantial upgrade over the TiVo in the area of multi-room, and it features a larger liveTV buffer and better liveTV viewing filters. That said, TiVo still offers a number of key recording and UI features that the Moxi lacks. Features absent from Moxi include:


list recorded programs by date instead of name (Moxi is name only)
 keeps record of recorded programs to prevent same program from recording again after it is deleted
 overlap protection to eliminate conflicts when three or more programs overlap by up to five minutes
 download/offload recordings from the DVR to a PC
 search program titles, descriptions, actors, directors, and categories;
 automatically record all future programs matching a saved search (such as all games with your favorite sports team); it is not possible to record by search on Moxi
 single or repeating manual timers
 view past guide data
 single-click delete
In terms of record functionality, Moxi's only advantage on its dual-tuner product is the "record this timeslot only" option for season passes. That is a useful option for some shows.


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

I am in the same boat, as TiVo discontinued the lifetime subs when I bought my S3, only to bring them back later on. 

Now I either have to pay month to month or buy a lifetime or another 3 year sub.

But instead of Moxi, why not go with Windows 7 Media center? It has the features that matter to me, including transfers to a PC (it _is_ a PC), OTA support and of course tons of third party tools, and an updated, widescreen interface

Next year brings cablecard support, with FOUR tuners instead of two (six on select OEM PCs).

It's also a PC so you're not just restricted to the media center software. In fact, you can even install Hulu desktop and get Hulu on your TV, something I'm sure TiVo users would just love to have.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> Features absent from Moxi include:
> 
> 
> single or repeating manual timers


Lack of repeating manual recording is a real deal-killer. It's absolutely ridiculous. In other words, Moxi can't even replace a simple VCR.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> overlap protection to eliminate conflicts when three or more programs overlap by up to five minutes





Considering how long people yelled at TiVo for not having this functionality, I'm surprised Moxi didn't do some basic research on the competition to find out what features people really wanted.

Scott


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Get real. Any accommodation would be great, no doubt. 

But this is asinine for individuals to cry out how they are "special" (I'm special too!) in whatever situation they have. Why should Tivo (or any other contracted party- cell phone providers for example) allow customers to break their contract because another offer came along to get new customers. Nobody is screwing you, early adopters are always going to pay more, if you did not know that you need to stop being an early adopter!

I would love to get an offer better than the standard, but such is life when you agree to the terms, customer service be damned, this is business and not personal.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't see anyone talking about breaking contracts... just that we'd like a break (discount) on lifetime, given our situation -- which, yes, is special. We are also not complaining about the high price of being early adopters, which isn't related to TiVo dropping and then reviving lifetime, except that it happened around the time the Series 3 came out.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

wmcbrine said:


> I don't see anyone talking about breaking contracts... just that we'd like a break (discount) on lifetime, given our situation -- which, yes, is special. We are also not complaining about the high price of being early adopters, which isn't related to TiVo dropping and then reviving lifetime, except that it happened around the time the Series 3 came out.


One problem is that once you start to treat "special" folks, there is no end to it. In this case, what about all the people who "paid" $500 or so for lifetime back then, as anybody (including you folks who chose not to) could have done. (Buy an S2 with lifetime for $300 and transfer lifetime for $199.) If TiVo goes out of its way to help you, won't these people, and there were a lot of them, feel that they are not being treated fairly?

Right now TiVo is just obeying the rules they set up and people agreed to. Once they start bending the rules in a big way, other folks are going to feel that TiVo is being unfair to them, and the end result will be a lot more folks upset at TiVo. Many of the huge controversies in the past here have been due to TiVo doing something nice for us, and people who couldn't take advantage of it complaining (HMO pricing got tons of people upset!).


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

bkdtv said:


> Features absent from Moxi include:
> 
> 
> list recorded programs by date instead of name (Moxi is name only)
> ...


Lack of guide data prior to the present time (except for an indivual program still in the buffer) is an annoying Moxi shortcoming. :down:



Phantom Gremlin said:


> Lack of repeating manual recording is a real deal-killer. It's absolutely ridiculous. In other words, Moxi can't even replace a simple VCR.


Lack of the ability to manually record is a major Moxi shortcoming. 

There's a somewhat cludgy workaround which utilizes Moxi's channel mapping when using the analog dongle with a DTA. Now that I'm using the DTA as the source for a DVD recorder instead of the dongle, it's time to finally connect one of the CECB's I got awhile back, which can be programmed to automatically tune to a channel at a preset time, to the dongle and re-map Ch.3 to VOD Ch.1 in Moxi's EPG. On my _ToDo List_ for today. 

TiVo users have complained about how cludgy it is to have to manually record with TiVo when using HDTiVo without a CableCARD. At least Moxi does offer channel mapping! 



HerronScott said:


> Considering how long people yelled at TiVo for not having (overlap protection), I'm surprised Moxi didn't do some basic research on the competition to find out what features people really wanted.
> Scott


Moxi does provide manual settings for enabling overlap protection; recordings can be programmed to start 1, 2, or 5 minutes late (or early).


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

CrispyCritter said:


> One problem is that once you start to treat "special" folks, there is no end to it. In this case, what about all the people who "paid" $500 or so for lifetime back then, as anybody (including you folks who chose not to) could have done. (Buy an S2 with lifetime for $300 and transfer lifetime for $199.) If TiVo goes out of its way to help you, won't these people, and there were a lot of them, feel that they are not being treated fairly?
> 
> Right now TiVo is just obeying the rules they set up and people agreed to. Once they start bending the rules in a big way, other folks are going to feel that TiVo is being unfair to them, and the end result will be a lot more folks upset at TiVo. Many of the huge controversies in the past here have been due to TiVo doing something nice for us, and people who couldn't take advantage of it complaining (HMO pricing got tons of people upset!).


Well, as it is, TiVo is losing subscribers. Losing subscribers can't make investors and shareholders happy.

And I bet when faced with paying another $399 for lifetime or dropping the box and getting another with no sub fees, many would just tell TiVo "adios."

Yes, maybe we are trying to get special treatment, but at the same time we do have the free choice to leave, which it seems many will exercise. In the end we will still have a DVR (from someone else) but TiVo won't have us. It doesn't bode very well for them especially given competition from the cable company DVRs (which most people refer to as "TiVo" anyway).


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

On breaking contracts, in this thread you are correct. It would really be a new contract, and Tivo does not appear interested in providing such contract conditions.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

fallingwater said:


> Moxi does provide manual settings for enabling overlap protection; recordings can be programmed to start 1, 2, or 5 minutes late (or early).


That's not the same thing.

TiVo's overlap protection is automatic. If a program runs one minute late, then a lower priority program is started one minute late if that is necessary for it record.

Moxi doesn't do that. Moxi just gives you more options to start late or end early in your season pass. This doesn't accomplish the same thing, because it starts every episode late or ends every episode early, even when they don't conflict. TiVo's overlap protection does it automatically, and only when it is necessary to allow the program to record. With TiVo, you don't unnecessarily cut any recordings short.

That said, I think the third tuner in the new Moxi greatly reduces the need for overlap protection. I record everything I watch, and my TiVo probably makes use of overlap protection about three times a month, on average, to avoid missed programs. If the TivoHD had a third tuner, that would probably eliminate 95+% of situations where overlap protection is needed (at least for my TiVo in my household).


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## godsrainbow1984 (Oct 20, 2008)

I'm waiting to see this new tivo


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Raj said:


> Losing subscribers can't make investors and shareholders happy.


No more or less so than underpricing, and especially no more or less so than pricing below cost of service. There is no good news for investors.

You can safely assume that the current pricing reflects all the considerations you are trying to claim that it doesn't reflect, and that the current pricing is pretty close to the pricing that most pleases investors, given the circumstances.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Raj said:


> .......But instead of Moxi, why not go with Windows 7 Media center? It has the features that matter to me, including transfers to a PC (it _is_ a PC), OTA support and of course tons of third party tools, and an updated, widescreen interface
> 
> Next year brings cablecard support, with FOUR tuners instead of two (six on select OEM PCs).
> ........


How are they going to handle the 2-way communication to support SDV? My primary complaints about my TiVo HD experience are all about SDV channels and the way TWC is implementing them. (Failure to tune, pixelation, TA dropping out). Regardless of how the Media Center implementation handles SDV (with TA's or some other method) I have zero confidence it will provide better performance. Anything other than TWC-furnished STB's and DVR's is a poor step-sister in TWC's eyes and will not get support or performance optimization. The only hope this would ever change is if a significant fraction of their digital customers were using the alternative devices. This is definitely not the case for TiVo's and I strongly doubt it will ever by the case for PC tuner customers.

The only hope for good tuning and PQ on SDV channels with TWC will be when TWC (perhaps in cooperation with TiVo) brings out their own branded TiVo-like DVR's.


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## jkates (Jun 12, 2002)

Without tivo2go moxi is a non starter.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

For you. For most of the DVR users that watch and delete shows, no.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

I posted this to another thread, but it's relevant here too.

There's another advantage to Moxi -- their repair/replacement policy:



> Thanks for your interest in Moxi. We received your email with your question and are happy to help.
> 
> The Moxi HD DVR is the best HD DVR on the planet because of its Emmy award-winning interface and it's suite of online networking and multimedia home entertainment capabilities. It's also the only HD DVR with no monthly fees. (check out our website - www.moxi.com - for full details).
> 
> ...


TiVo charges a flat $150 fee to replace after the warranty expires, but also charges an additional $199 lifetime transfer fee after three years.

Cost after three years to replace a TivoHD with lifetime: $350
Cost after three years to replace a Moxi with lifetime: $75 + parts

Of course, I'm assuming that Moxi still exists as a product in three years.


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## FrodoB (Jan 3, 2005)

bkdtv said:


> Of course, I'm assuming that Moxi still exists as a product in three years.


And that they don't change their policy due to abuse or some such action.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

bkdtv said:


> Cost after three years to replace a TivoHD with lifetime: $350
> Cost after three years to replace a Moxi with lifetime: $75 + parts
> 
> Of course, I'm assuming that Moxi still exists as a product in three years.


That's an important point. I'm not sure there's a profit in selling a product with lifetime service and then agreeing to keep the box alive indefinitely.

There's a reason why most CE companies use refurb exchanges instead of a fee plus parts model. It's just not cost effective or consumer friendly to work that way on any kind of scale.

Some of the policies Moxi has today don't appear to be sustainable unless their costs are substantially lower than TiVo's or their new owner plans to subsidize them for some other purpose.


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## icehole (Nov 26, 2009)

The only reason I can see this as an argument is as a brand new customer to either technology.. 

2 room cost's 

Moxi - 800 - 3 tuners
Tivo - 1200 - 4 Tuners

However as a s3user deciding on weather or not to up for your lifetime assumeing you have 2 units is 700, so still a good bit cheaper & its a more well known reliable technology. 

Or else I guess you can ebay those s3's & make back a good portion of the moxi setup.. I For 1 though dont mind paying for what I know & the moxi is kind of an unknown on anything they do..


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

fallingwater said:


> ...Moxi does provide manual settings for enabling overlap protection; recordings can be programmed to start 1, 2, or 5 minutes late (or early).





bkdtv said:


> That's not the same thing.


Yes; true.



> TiVo's overlap protection is automatic.


That's true. My point is that having a Green Card for _Manual_ to do the work isn't the same thing but is much better than nothing.



> If a program runs one minute late, then a lower priority program is started one minute late if that is necessary for it record.
> 
> Moxi doesn't do that. Moxi just gives you more options to start late or end early in your season pass. This doesn't accomplish the same thing, because it starts every episode late or ends every episode early, even when they don't conflict. TiVo's overlap protection does it automatically, and only when it is necessary to allow the program to record. With TiVo, you don't unnecessarily cut any recordings short.


Moxi's _Manual_ allows for changing recording start and end times for any recordings, including individual recordings.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

fallingwater said:


> ...it's time to finally connect one of the CECB's I got awhile back, which can be programmed to automatically tune to a channel at a preset time, to the dongle and re-map Ch.3 to VOD Ch.1 in Moxi's EPG. On my _ToDo List_ for today.


I connected a CECB to Moxi's dongle yesterday. Using a CECB with the dongle works but isn't practical at my location. After testing two CECB's (DTV Pal+ performed significantly better than Zinwell's ZAT-970A) I ended by re-connecting the OTA antenna to Sony's DVR and Comcast's coax to Moxi's dongle.

We receive 5 ATSC chs.; 2 Bellingham locals and 3 from Vancouver, BC. The locals require pointing the antenna in a different direction than Vancouver. Both locals and 2 of the 3 Vancouver Chs. are available on Comcast. The 3rd Vancouver Ch. has the weakest signal and is unwatchable as ATSC but is available as NTSC Ch. 8 with a fairly strong signal; 2nd best analog Ch. available. (The best is UHF and is available on Comcast.)

There are 3 weaker analog VHF Chs. from Vancouver, one (CBC) simulcast on Comcast.)

Switching from CECB's Ch. 3 output to its analog pass-through confuses Moxi's dongle which then requires a Moxi channel rescan. Bottom line is that being able to receive 3 analog VHF Chs. from Vancouver unavailable on Comcast, only one of which is strong enough for a decent DVR recording is an impractical hassle.

If Vancouver's entire channel line-up was available as ATSC (2 more years 'til Canada's digital cutover) a CECB might make sense. Not now.


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## dtee (Sep 29, 2006)

Tivo sent me a $299. Lifetime Special. For this unit I took it. No brainer at that price. BUT for the rest of the house Moxi just may be the ticket. The Moxi mate unit is very interesting. The problem with all this stuff is that you simply cannot be sure until you actually use the unit. I will update if I get a Moxi.


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## megory (Jan 23, 2003)

Lifetime is $299 if you are already a subscriber. At least that's what I got for my new HDTiVo. Hope you got a new HD TiVo to go with a longer lifetime!


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## philsexton1 (Sep 23, 2006)

I'm curious about the lifetime (of the box) subscription for Tivo. Can Tivo make the box die? Mine hangs at the Welcome screen when powered up. Could Tivo have caused that to happen? Does anyone know if the "life" of a lifetime subscription box is the same as the life of one that pays monthly or yearly?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

philsexton1 said:


> I'm curious about the lifetime (of the box) subscription for Tivo. Can Tivo make the box die? Mine hangs at the Welcome screen when powered up.


No.

When the TiVo hangs at the welcome screen, that almost always indicates that the hard drive is dead. You can replace the drive using these instructions.



philsexton1 said:


> Could Tivo have caused that to happen? Does anyone know if the "life" of a lifetime subscription box is the same as the life of one that pays monthly or yearly?


The type of subscription has no bearing on the life of the box. Many are still using TiVos with lifetime that are 10 years old.

The typical hard drive lasts 3-4 years in DVR, so it must be replaced at some point to continue operation. You should plan on replacing the drive every three years. Replacing the drive does not affect your lifetime subscription, which is tied to a chip inside the box.

If you don't want to spend the 35-45 minutes to replace the drive yourself, then you can purchase a pre-prepared drive from ebay, dvrupgrade, or weaknees. The alternative is to send the box back to TiVo for a refurbished replacement, although TiVo will only move lifetime to the replacement at no charge for three years.


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

dlfl said:


> How are they going to handle the 2-way communication to support SDV?


The same way TiVo does it. Tuning adapters.



> My primary complaints about my TiVo HD experience are all about SDV channels and the way TWC is implementing them. (Failure to tune, pixelation, TA dropping out). Regardless of how the Media Center implementation handles SDV (with TA's or some other method) I have zero confidence it will provide better performance. Anything other than TWC-furnished STB's and DVR's is a poor step-sister in TWC's eyes and will not get support or performance optimization. The only hope this would ever change is if a significant fraction of their digital customers were using the alternative devices. This is definitely not the case for TiVo's and I strongly doubt it will ever by the case for PC tuner customers.
> 
> The only hope for good tuning and PQ on SDV channels with TWC will be when TWC (perhaps in cooperation with TiVo) brings out their own branded TiVo-like DVR's.


There's a guy posting on the green button forums who has a media center setup with TWC and SDV. Check it out:

http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/t/78488.aspx?PageIndex=1


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## philsexton1 (Sep 23, 2006)

bkdtv said:


> No.
> 
> When the TiVo hangs at the welcome screen, that almost always indicates that the hard drive is dead. You can replace the drive using these instructions[/url].


I did replace the hard drive and it did work again for a few weeks. But then it went bad. I replaced the hard drive and again it went bad.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Raj said:


> There's a guy posting on the green button forums who has a media center setup with TWC and SDV. Check it out:
> 
> http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/t/78488.aspx?PageIndex=1


Media Center has the same problems with SDV tuning adapters in certain markets. The SDV tuning adapter resets occur regardless of the box.



philsexton1 said:


> I did replace the hard drive and it did work again for a few weeks. But then it went bad. I replaced the hard drive and again it went bad.


What hard drive did you use? Did you use a drive from the recommended list, like the WD10EVDS?

Some drives exhibit the "soft reboot" issue, so they only boot properly after you pull the plug.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

philsexton1 said:


> I'm curious about the lifetime (of the box) subscription for Tivo. Can Tivo make the box die? Mine hangs at the Welcome screen when powered up. Could Tivo have caused that to happen? Does anyone know if the "life" of a lifetime subscription box is the same as the life of one that pays monthly or yearly?


TiVo is a public company, it is ludicrous to think they would have some dark method of turning off lifetime boxes. Your TiVo has a technical problem that has nothing to do with sub type. You have asked this in multiple posts now - if you continue to spread your conspiracy theory then we can only assume you to be a troll and treat your posts accordingly


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## convergent (Jan 4, 2007)

I'm thinking of giving a Moxi a try too... have 3 Tivos... tried to buy an XL and after 2 that wouldn't reboot properly I got a refund and trying to decide which way to go. Anyone done the Moxi thing and liked it?


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

Moxi's a mixed bag. Best thing is try it yourself and return it within the 30 day money-back window if it doesn't meet your expectations.

Here's more:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17063966#post17063966

and more. The last page of the 27 page Moxi thread @ AVS Forums:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1095015&page=27


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

convergent said:


> I'm thinking of giving a Moxi a try too... have 3 Tivos... tried to buy an XL and after 2 that wouldn't reboot properly I got a refund and trying to decide which way to go. Anyone done the Moxi thing and liked it?


I bought a Moxi with 2 Moxi Mates two weeks ago. I have been happy with it so far. It does take sometime to get us to. I had a Tivo for 6 years. So there is some unlearning that you need to do before you learn the tricks of the Moxi. The remote layout is not the greatest. I am so use to having the Tivo button on top and the directional pad below it.. when I am controlling the moxi, I find myself hitting the play or some other button besides the directional buttons. Right now there is a lack of options to customize the main menu but I think(?) they might be working on an option to remove some items in the next release. Playon which comes free works great with Hulu. I caught an episode of V on it and there was no picture issues. I could care less for the ticker, music, and other stuff.

Even before you buy the MOXI, I think it would be a good idea to read through the instruction MOXI instruction manual. I did that while waiting for the Moxi to ship and I think I appreicate the Moxi a bit more after reading it. It will make your transition easier.

I am hoping more people buy the MOXI especially the ones who are willing to take out the drive and play with it. One thing that MOXI does not have right now is the critical mass of subcribers that will allow for 3 party upgrades.. like opening up the box and replacing the drive. TIVO subscribers have that option of building it up and upgrading on their own.

Sure, there are things I missed from my Tivo HD but it was time for a change. I need HD in more than one room. I wanted a company that innovates a bit more...


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## convergent (Jan 4, 2007)

fatlard (ok, that right there is a funny username... ),

Thanks for your input. I have moved to Harmony remotes so the remote thing wouldn't be an issue for us... should be identical buttons for Tivo and Moxi. You might want to look into that as an option. They are quite nice and they keep putting the 510 on sale for under $50 which is a real bargain.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

convergent said:


> fatlard (ok, that right there is a funny username... ),
> 
> Thanks for your input. I have moved to Harmony remotes so the remote thing wouldn't be an issue for us... should be identical buttons for Tivo and Moxi. You might want to look into that as an option. They are quite nice and they keep putting the 510 on sale for under $50 which is a real bargain.


I do have the Harmony 510. I found it slow for my Tivo so kept using Tivo one. Now I use both the Harmony 510 and the Moxi one....

Let me know if you have any other questions.... another thing about MOXI.. their support staff is excellent. always answered my question.

fatlard..


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

fatlard said:


> I do have the Harmony 510. I found it slow for my Tivo so kept using Tivo one. Now I use both the Harmony 510 and the Moxi one....


Any Harmony will be slow if you don't change the delays. If you search on Google you will find instructions for changing them for a TiVo (and it should be the same for a Moxi setup).


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

rainwater said:


> Any Harmony will be slow if you don't change the delays. If you search on Google you will find instructions for changing them for a TiVo (and it should be the same for a Moxi setup).


I did not know that. I will have to look that up. Thanks for the heads up!


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

Ive also moved to a Moxi. Here's my thoughts.

- Someone earlier mentioned Amazon on Demand. This is available through PlayOn along with Hulu support, CBS, ESPN and some other video services.

- I feel like the Moxi plays nicer with the Tuning Adapter than Tivo does. Less pixelation.

- The Moxi remote kind of sucks. The Harmony One works much better with it.

- The Moxi interface is stunning but it does take some getting used to. A lot of it is counter-intuitive but you get used to it pretty quickly.

- I dont care about the Tivo2Go stuff. If Im going to the trouble of downloading shows, Ill just do it from Usenet.

- Im not particularly crazy about Moxi's implementation of streaming video from your PC. I wish it were more Tivo like. It transfers slow and you can only 30 second skip ahead through it instead of being able to FFWD and RWD. Ive talked to Moxi about the slow transfer speeds and they say thats by design and not a software limitation. I hope this improves. 

- The Super Ticker is cool when you want to catch scores or weather without switching channels.

Overall, Im happy with the switch. Ive said it before in other threads but Ill say it here as well. My main reason for switching was because Ive been extremely disappointed with Tivo's customer service. Ive owned a bunch of Tivos over the years and support has just gone in the toilet. Moxi could follow suite but right now their support is top notch.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

There are additional items that bug me about the Moxi as well. You can't view private to family and friends picutres on Moxi.

You also can not delete the shows from the Moxi Mate.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Does FF/REW work when streaming to Moxi Mate? (I assume 30 sec skip works)


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

moyekj said:


> Does FF/REW work when streaming to Moxi Mate? (I assume 30 sec skip works)


Yes.. both those features work. The 30 seconds skip however have a slight delay.


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