# Tivo Update Bricking Minis?



## duckman2000 (Oct 16, 2013)

I have a Tivo Mini (the older A92000 series) and it quit working and started doing the endless Tivo Startup loop issue. I have another extra Tivo Mini for a spare and connected it up. It booted up correctly and went to update and then went to the same endless Tivo Startup loop issue the other one has. Tried different AC power adapter and cables. A call to Tivo and they can't do anything (no $39 upgrade as others reported last year).

Anyone else had this problem with updates causing Tivo Mini problems? Any solutions? Thanks.....


----------



## Buickman (8 mo ago)

2 days ago I just finally got my 93000 to downgrade to TE3 so I could use it. Reset and went through the whole setup/install process without issue. Though the reason I needed to buy a used mini in the first place was my old on went into the boot loop over the winter. I think the older ones might just be ticking time bombs these days. They might last a few more years, or might go out the next time you want to watch TV, you never know.


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

duckman2000 said:


> I have a Tivo Mini (the older A92000 series) and it quit working and started doing the endless Tivo Startup loop issue. I have another extra Tivo Mini for a spare and connected it up. It booted up correctly and went to update and then went to the same endless Tivo Startup loop issue the other one has. Tried different AC power adapter and cables. A call to Tivo and they can't do anything (no $39 upgrade as others reported last year).
> 
> Anyone else had this problem with updates causing Tivo Mini problems? Any solutions? Thanks.....


Maybe. I just bought a package that included 4 92000 Minis. Went to update/test everything including the main Tivo in the package, Roamio Plus. Everything seemed fine, except one of the Minis, a boot loop, the starting up screen, flashes, then back to the starting up screen. Was not in room when doing the updates so did not see what actually happened when first plugged in. But it's stuck, not power supply, tried others. I suppose whomever sold me the package could have included a defective Mini but I doubt it, seemed very honest and friendly.

I have 3 more Minis at a family members house. Also 92000. Only one being used right now, it's working ok. The others WERE fine, at least a few months ago, I should probably hook up and check status. All units I am discussing are on TE3 by the way. 

I wonder if TE3 is causing the problem?


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

duckman2000 said:


> I have a Tivo Mini (the older A92000 series) and it quit working and started doing the endless Tivo Startup loop issue. I have another extra Tivo Mini for a spare and connected it up. It booted up correctly and went to update and then went to the same endless Tivo Startup loop issue the other one has. Tried different AC power adapter and cables. A call to Tivo and they can't do anything (no $39 upgrade as others reported last year).
> 
> Anyone else had this problem with updates causing Tivo Mini problems? Any solutions? Thanks.....


Are you on TE3 or TE4?


----------



## cjgadd3 (Mar 30, 2008)

I thoroughly believe it is something Tivo did that resulted in the demise of so many minis, intentionally or not although I don't think so.


----------



## duckman2000 (Oct 16, 2013)

tommage1 said:


> Are you on TE3 or TE4?


TE3


----------



## duckman2000 (Oct 16, 2013)

It acts as if the firmware is corrupted or was corrupted after or during connection to the Tivo Service for updating. It would be interesting to see what the firmware looks like now which is possible with some work and external equipment. Since no schematic diagrams are available, some reverse engineering would be required. It could also be a component issue of the same part failing in all the minis that would indicate a questionable design or a component not meeting its specs and then failing with the passage of time.

Since Tivo is not doing an exchange anymore on these minis, I have two that don't work with the same symptom, so it would make an interesting project.

What is key in all this is that when the first one failed with the startup loop issue, the extra one I had for a spare was connected up and it did boot to the normal menu screen. Since it had not been used in a while, I had it connect to the Tivo Service and then that is when this second one began the exact same startup loop problem. This all happened within the span of 15 minutes or so.


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

duckman2000 said:


> What is key in all this is that when the first one failed with the startup loop issue, the extra one I had for a spare was connected up and it did boot to the normal menu screen. Since it had not been used in a while, I had it connect to the Tivo Service and then that is when this second one began the exact same startup loop problem. This all happened within the span of 15 minutes or so.


Unfortunately I was not in room when the one went into the loop. It may have booted correctly, then connected, then went into loop (minis seem to connect pretty much as soon as you plug in, unlike the DVRs which connect after 1/2 hour or so). Or could have been in loop from the get go. I pretty much trust the person I bought from, I think they would have told me if any problems. The other 3 were fine after connecting (for now) All were done individually, only one at a time powered up.


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

[


duckman2000 said:


> A call to Tivo and they can't do anything (no $39 upgrade as others reported last year).


Link to any of those incidents? Were they replacing with 93000 or Mini Vox? I may call executive relations to try if a Mini Vox. Heck maybe even for a 93000, if this is their error they should do something.


----------



## duckman2000 (Oct 16, 2013)

tommage1 said:


> [Link to any of those incidents? Were they replacing with 93000 or Mini Vox? I may call executive relations to try if a Mini Vox. Heck maybe even for a 93000, if this is their error they should do something.


Check the replies in this thread regarding the replacements: Tivo Mini "Startup Loop of Death"


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

duckman2000 said:


> Check the replies in this thread regarding the replacements: Tivo Mini "Startup Loop of Death"


Very good, thanks. Right now only the 1 but since I have 7 total am a bit worried, only 1 in use.


----------



## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

I am of the FIRM belief that Minis have died and continue to die as a result of something TiVo is doing. I've lost two so far, and came in on the very end of "We'll send you a refurb MiniVox for $39". My two remaining Minis and the MiniVox's continue to run for now.

Deliberate or not is another issue.

The TiVo business model where there is a single payment (or no payment in the case on Minis) for 'lifetime service' and the customer can use the service until the hardware fails is simply not sustainable in the long run if the equipment is well made (as TiVos have been). I suspect the current owners have finally figured that out.


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

dougdingle said:


> I am of the FIRM belief that Minis have died and continue to die as a result of something TiVo is doing. I've lost two so far, and came in on the very end of "We'll send you a refurb MiniVox for $39".


When was the very end of the $39 deal? And was it only for those who got bricked or anyone who had/has a 92000?


----------



## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

tommage1 said:


> When was the very end of the $39 deal? And was it only for those who got bricked or anyone who had/has a 92000?


I believe it was mid to late summer of 2020. I had two bricked boxes, both 93000 series. For the $39, you only got the refurbished box. The power supply and remote were from the bricked boxes. I also had to buy two remotes off ebay because the older remotes only wok IR on MinVox and I wanted RF control.


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

dougdingle said:


> I believe it was mid to late summer of 2020. I had two bricked boxes, both 93000 series. For the $39, you only got the refurbished box. The power supply and remote were from the bricked boxes. I also had to buy two remotes off ebay because the older remotes only wok IR on MinVox and I wanted RF control.


I see. Doubtful they will do the $39 now, even if I call "executive relations". Guess they might offer $25 off a Mini Vox, big deal, they go on sale for less than that all the time. Hope the others don't develop the same problem, very strange, some do, some don't, same models, same internet, connected to same Tivos.


----------



## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

My A93 is still working but I've been getting worried for awhile.

Given the old news at A92 and A93 minis can no longer be activated?, if I shop for used A92 or A93, as long as they've been activated before, I should be able move them to my account still, right?

Folks are mentioning Mini Vox (A95)? If I got one of those, does that mean I need to go to TE4 to use those ? My Bolt+ is still on TE3 and I'd rather not upgrade to TE4, for now.


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

cwerdna said:


> Given the old news at A92 and A93 minis can no longer be activated?, if I shop for used A92 or A93, as long as they've been activated before, I should be able move them to my account still, right?


Hmm, well I think that means they have to be CURRENTLY active, not just in the past. Should not matter with an A93 as they all came with lifetime far as I know. Could affect some A92 as they did not all come with lifetime. If you get an A92 that was on monthly, was activated at one time but is not active now I would GUESS you could not re-activate it. But since you can buy lifetime A92s for $40 or so why get one that is not. Unless of course seller does not know what they are selling, lifetime vs monthly. One final thing, some cable cos etc have/had Minis branded for their company. I'm guessing those would not work on a private account, A92 or A93 but could be wrong.


----------



## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

cwerdna said:


> Given the old news at A92 and A93 minis can no longer be activated?, if I shop for used A92 or A93, as long as they've been activated before, I should be able move them to my account still, right?


No idea, sorry. Maybe you can call TiVo support and ask.



> Folks are mentioning Mini Vox (A95)? If I got one of those, does that mean I need to go to TE4 to use those ? My Bolt+ is still on TE3 and I'd rather not upgrade to TE4, for now.


When I got my refurb mimivoxes, they came with TE4 installed. At first boot, I was given the option to either upgrade my Roamio and othe Minis to TE4, or 'downgrade' the minivox to TE3. I elected to make the minivox TE3.

Note that this info is now two years old, and I have no idea if it's still valid.


----------



## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

^^^
Thanks. TiVo support is closed so I dropped them an email via their web site. Let's see what they say.


----------



## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

cwerdna said:


> ^^^
> Thanks. TiVo support is closed so I dropped them an email via their web site. Let's see what they say.


A final note that if you make the minivox TE3, neither voice command nor CEC will work - those both need TE4. 

Also, assuming you can get them to send you a refurbed unit, the older mini remotes will only work with the minivox in IR mode, so if you want an RF remote, you have to buy a minivox remote from TiVo or ebay or weaknees.


----------



## duckman2000 (Oct 16, 2013)

Standard Tivo phone support said they are no longer offering the $39 deal for bad Minis but they did offer a $25 discount on the new Mini Lux and that was it. If anyone is still able to get the $39 deal, please post an update.


----------



## Buickman (8 mo ago)

dougdingle said:


> Also, assuming you can get them to send you a refurbed unit, the older mini remotes will only work with the minivox in IR mode, so if you want an RF remote, you have to buy a minivox remote from TiVo or ebay or weaknees.


If your old one was 92000. If you had a 93000 brick like mine did, it's RF remote works just fine with a new mini Vox on TE3.


----------



## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Buickman said:


> If your old one was 92000. If you had a 93000 brick like mine did, it's RF remote works just fine with a new mini Vox on TE3.


My 9300 RF remotes would only work with IR (could not be paired in RF) with the minivox on TE3. The TiVo and Weaknees sites and the CS rep who sent me the minivox boxes were very clear about that, and it proved to be true. 

The minivox remotes I bought paired with RF instantly.


----------



## Buickman (8 mo ago)

dougdingle said:


> My 9300 RF remotes would only work with IR (could not be paired in RF) with the minivox on TE3. The TiVo and Weaknees sites and the CS rep who sent me the minivox boxes were very clear about that, and it proved to be true.
> 
> The minivox remotes I bought paired with RF instantly.


That's odd. I purchased a new Mini LUX in January to replace my dead 93000. After downgrading the LUX to TE3, I took the remote that came with the dead 93000 I bought 5 years ago, and paired it right up without issue. It was my understanding that the LUX and VOX are the same box, that they just came with different remotes, so I don't know why yours wouldn't work.


----------



## stevehogan (Dec 30, 2006)

Buickman said:


> That's odd. I purchased a new Mini LUX in January to replace my dead 93000. After downgrading the LUX to TE3, I took the remote that came with the dead 93000 I bought 5 years ago, and paired it right up without issue. It was my understanding that the LUX and VOX are the same box, that they just came with different remotes, so I don't know why yours wouldn't work.


The Lux only works with IR on TE3. Doesn't matter what kind of remote you have. IR only on TE3 with the Lux. 

On TE4, the Lux works with IR and I suspect will pair with an older remote as well.


----------



## Buickman (8 mo ago)

stevehogan said:


> The Lux only works with IR on TE3. Doesn't matter what kind of remote you have. IR only on TE3 with the Lux.
> 
> On TE4, the Lux works with IR and I suspect will pair with an older remote as well.


I don't know what you tell you man, I have a LUX on TE3 doing RF with an old 93000 remote.


----------



## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

Edit: Misread Vox vs Lux


----------



## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

Edit: Misread VOX vs LUX.


----------



## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

cwerdna said:


> My A93 is still working but I've been getting worried for awhile.
> 
> Given the old news at A92 and A93 minis can no longer be activated?, if I shop for used A92 or A93, as long as they've been activated before, I should be able move them to my account still, right?


To add data points, I did contact TiVo support about moving already activated A92 and A93 over to my account and they said in part:


> We are glad to know that you are interested with our product and service. We would like to inform you that it is possible to transfer the ownership of the used TiVo Mini A92 and/or A93. All you need to do is to ask for the authorization case number from the original owner and provide it to us so that we can transfer the device to your account.


I did buy mdavej's used A92. He opened a ticket w/TiVo support to have it added to my account so it showed up before the box arrived. 

I got it up and running last night w/no problems. Was able to watch stuff from my TE3 Bolt+. Upon going thru guided setup, it had to downgrade itself (presumably from TE4 which had a grey UI that I hadn't seen before to TE3). It claimed it could take about an hour but actually took way less than that.


----------



## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

To add another data point, I was able to buy another A92 Mini from someone at my work. The seller had to open a ticket w/TiVo to move it to my account. However, it wasn't automatically added to my account. I had to contact TiVo support (chat was fine despite the email saying I had to call) w/the case #.

They moved it successfully to my account. Box is working great now beginning last night.

I did initially hit some probs even after it was moved over to my account. It complained it couldn't find the original owner's TiVo and during guided setup, it wouldn't let me connect to my Bolt+, saying it wasn't on the same account. It put up no signs on the left side for both TiVos and would throw up the not the same account error when trying to connect to my Bolt+.

I forced a connection on the Bolt+ and rebooted the A92 Mini, which forced a connection on the A92 again even though I'd rerun guided setup earlier. That worked.

I think I have enough spares now. I'd posted a work looking to buy either a used A92 or A93 and I got one reply, for the above A92.


----------

