# powerline vs wireless-ac bridge?



## mjh (Dec 19, 2002)

I'm trying to connect a MINI to a room that does not have ethernet available to it. The two basic options that I can come up with to resolve is:


Powerline networking adapter (e.g. this)
Wirelss AC -> ethernet adapter (e.g. this)
Looking for opinions on each setup. I would lean towards the powerline because it's cheaper. But I'm concerned that:

The performance isn't going to be good enough
Especially if I want to add another mini to a different room
I believe (not sure) that I may have multiple wiring (grids, loops, whatever the correct description is) in my house such that some rooms are not on the same thing as other rooms and hence powerline won't work
Conversely going wifi:

It's a ton more expensive given that I also have to replace my router
Will it even work given how susceptible each range is to interference from other sources
If it works at all, I suspect it will scale better to multiple rooms than powerline.
So I'm curious what other people have done and how well it's worked for them.


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## Tico (Dec 10, 2002)

I am running Tivos on both. Roamio Pro on AC bridge and 2 Minis on powerline adapters. 

Both work fine for me. 

I would go the cheaper route unless you want an excuse to upgrade your router.


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## DallasGG (May 5, 2015)

I tried the powerline adapters on one of my Mini's and although it worked, it would lose the connection every 5-10 minutes. That was pretty annoying because when the Mini loses it's connection, it doesn't keep track of where you are in the recording and you have to fast forward back to the spot you left off. I switched to a wifi bridge and for me it's much more consistent. I have almost no lost connections now.

From what I've read on this forum, the powerline adapters can be very hit and miss. Mine seemed to be more miss.

If you wanted to try a wifi bridge, you could try something like this...it's a wifi extender that also has one ethernet port on it and it's only $14.99 at Staples right now.

http://www.staples.com/Edimax-EW-7438RPn-Mini-Wireless-Range-Extender/product_1954139


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

mjh said:


> I'm trying to connect a MINI to a room that does not have ethernet available to it. The two basic options that I can come up with to resolve is:
> 
> 
> Powerline networking adapter (e.g. this)
> ...


Hi,
The usual recommendation for setting up a network with the goal of performance is Ethernet first, MoCA second, Wireless, and powerline last. Ethernet is the ideal, but rarely found or easily installed. Tivo and many TV providers have therefore moved to and recommend the use of MoCA, which uses the already established coax available in most homes, in fact, all the minis as well as the 4 tuner Premiere, 6 tuner Roamios, and the new Bolt all have MoCA builtin and Tivo recommends its use. Wireless has been used successfully by some who have very good dual band routers and then use "wireless" bridges with Ethernet ports to "fool" the Tivo into thinking it is actually using Ethernet to connect. The usual recommendation is an AC rated router paired with AC rated wireless adapters to be successful. Powerline is very hit or miss, as it is very dependent on how and when your home wiring was done. If your plan includes using more than 2 devices, I would not suggest it.
Tivo is heavily biased towards MoCA because, although it can be problematic on some coax setups, it can usually provides a stable and reliable outcome.
If you want to ignore the recommendations and try a few powerline adapters to see how they work in your home, look for some with a good return policy like Amazon, so if they don't get the job done they can be easily returned. Otherwise, I would suggest you study up a bit on MoCA, it basically means Ethernet piggybacked over your TV Coax cable. The most costly going in is likely to be a new router and wireless adapters.
EDIT: The term "bridge" is ill defined, and can lead to confusion, a wireless bridge like the above recommended Edimax unit and all similar plug in products work by "repeating" the wireless signal in and out from both the connected device and again back to the router. These "repeaters" therefore have the effect of halving your throughput while seeming to provide a "stronger" local wireless signal and may fall short of the necessary bandwidth while giving the illusion of signal strength. The type of device which is more commonly used is more accurately termed a wireless to Ethernet adapter/ bridge and do not "repeat" the wireless signal.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

mjh said:


> So I'm curious what other people have done and how well it's worked for them.


I have three WUMC710 units driving a v1 Mini, v2 Mini, and smart TV. They have been 100% reliable. I have never lost a connection. One Mini was next door for a few weeks.

You are correct about the price and the router. I just went from a Netgear R7500 to R8000. No difference for the Mini. I have a dozen wireless devices and all are 802.11ac except my printer - the only 2.4GHz device. In the room with the modem and router I have a wired Roamio. I have a Roamio on a different floor using an ASUS EA-N66R. Since both Roamio are basic boxes, my transfer rate is only 100MBps.

The choice is yours. I have poor power and all equipment is on a UPS. It's a very old house. I may move this spring and I can take it all with me.


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## mjh (Dec 19, 2002)

fcfc2 said:


> Hi,
> The usual recommendation for setting up a network with the goal of performance is Ethernet first, MoCA second,


Oh, yeah. Totally forgot about MoCa. I have done a little research on this, but still confused about it. Will take it to the moca thread. But thanks for that reminder.


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## jim1971 (Oct 11, 2015)

Powerline is unreliable. If it works ok today, wait until tomorrow. 

I'm using an ac wifi bridge for my upstairs network, although my upstairs mini is on moca. I used powerline for a while, but it petered out and became unreliable. My wifi bridge is a netgear ac router with DD-WRT installed. It works great.

I used a small tplink travel router as a wifi bridge to test my premier before installing it. It was also 100% reliable. A permanent install should use a better router, though.

I have used a wifi bridge to power large segments of my home network in the past. It was completely reliable. Many ac routers have a bridge mode. TP link and Netgear are two. DD-WRT powered my Netgear better than stock Netgear firmware in bridge mode. You do not need to replace your main router to put a bridge on your network.

re moca: tivo uses it on many dvrs as a stock alternative. Tivo also appears to work ok with aftermarket moca adapters. In general, moca has, anecdotally, been a slow alternative for a cat5/5e/6 replacement. A wireless bridge, assuming you don't have 3 floors to cover in an odd configuration, is a better alternative unless speed is not a concern for you. I'm getting nearly 200Mbits wireless ac actual speed over the home network according to lantest lite. Stories on Amazon reviews give moca a lesser actual speed.


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## borabora (Aug 30, 2007)

Powerline is hit or miss and mostly miss for an old house.
Wireless is a great solution if you are not in an overly spectrum-crowded area (with many competing wireless networks) and if you set it up correctly. Select a an available channel (only 1,6, or 11 in the 2.4 Ghz spectrum) and make sure that you get decent signal strength. If you have an Android device then download "Wifi Analyzer" to do a cursory assessment.

While ac networks are great even a 802.11n network with 100 mbps ports can easily support 3 concurrent Minis. The 802.11n standard is mature and dirt cheap. You can keep your current router and just add an access point (aka wireless bridge) if you like your router. I recommend wireless gear from Ubiquiti, Engenius, and the outdoor stuff from TP-Link.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Powerline can work just fine provided you have reasonable wiring (always the contrarian I am) as the resident powerline fangirl I have to speak up.


I have a 2 story house with no ethernet or COAX to the 2nd floor, my PC in the office and mini in the bedroom have run off powerline for 3 years with almost zero issues, when I have had an issue I've found a wiring or connection issue that was easily resolved and I get far better performance than wireless.

I've also done 3 powerline nodes for my dad in his house and other than one of the units dying he has had equally solid results. I'd till suggest MoCA as my first line of connection with a mini.


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## aspexil (Oct 16, 2015)

JoeKustra said:


> I have three WUMC710 units driving a v1 Mini, v2 Mini, and smart TV. They have been 100% reliable. I have never lost a connection. One Mini was next door for a few weeks.
> 
> You are correct about the price and the router. I just went from a Netgear R7500 to R8000. No difference for the Mini. I have a dozen wireless devices and all are 802.11ac except my printer - the only 2.4GHz device. In the room with the modem and router I have a wired Roamio. I have a Roamio on a different floor using an ASUS EA-N66R. Since both Roamio are basic boxes, my transfer rate is only 100MBps.
> 
> The choice is yours. I have poor power and all equipment is on a UPS. It's a very old house. I may move this spring and I can take it all with me.


I'm setup the same way except I have the latest Netgear 8500 X8 (because it came out before I got the Bolt and had to upgrade the router to 802.11ac) in the basement where the cable line comes in and with the Bolt on a WUMC710 in the living room and one v2 Mini on a WUMC710 in the basement. Note the WUMC710 only runs on 802.11ac so if your current router doesn't support 802.11ac you'll need to upgrade the router.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I didn't need to go for the R8500, but it was tempting. The R7500 is buggy.

TiVo may not support wireless, but you would never know it by viewing the help screens.


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## jim1971 (Oct 11, 2015)

JoeKustra said:


> I didn't need to go for the R8500, but it was tempting. The R7500 is buggy.
> 
> TiVo may not support wireless, but you would never know it by viewing the help screens.


I have had mixed results with Netgear routers. I have a R6300 version 2 with stock firmware and it works fine. It's working as a wireless access point. I have a R6300 version 1 configured as a wireless bridge and it needed DD-WRT to work properly. Stock firmware provided a slow ... very very slow ... wireless speed. DD-WRT, a recent version, brought it up to ac level speeds.

If you feel ambitious, why not try DD-WRT or Tomato shibby on your Netgear router? myopenrouter.com has DD-WRT releases that are presumed to be stable.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

jim1971 said:


> I have had mixed results with Netgear routers. I have a R6300 version 2 with stock firmware and it works fine. It's working as a wireless access point. I have a R6300 version 1 configured as a wireless bridge and it needed DD-WRT to work properly. Stock firmware provided a slow ... very very slow ... wireless speed. DD-WRT, a recent version, brought it up to ac level speeds.
> 
> If you feel ambitious, why not try DD-WRT or Tomato shibby on your Netgear router? myopenrouter.com has DD-WRT releases that are presumed to be stable.


Thanks, but ambitious is not my favorite word.  The R8000 is working great. I'm waiting for the HDMI issues to be resolved, then move to 4k. I expect that to be around black Friday.


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## steelersruleman (Aug 29, 2014)

dianebrat said:


> Powerline can work just fine provided you have reasonable wiring (always the contrarian I am) as the resident powerline fangirl I have to speak up.
> 
> I have a 2 story house with no ethernet or COAX to the 2nd floor, my PC in the office and mini in the bedroom have run off powerline for 3 years with almost zero issues, when I have had an issue I've found a wiring or connection issue that was easily resolved and I get far better performance than wireless.
> 
> I've also done 3 powerline nodes for my dad in his house and other than one of the units dying he has had equally solid results. I'd till suggest MoCA as my first line of connection with a mini.


I am actually getting a TIVO MINI(Latest version), on Tuesday from Amazon.

I will be using a BELKIN POWERLINE Adapter to connect my ISP which is TWC EXTREME(30Mbps Down/5Mbps Up).

I am currently using a Belkin PLA upstairs connected to my Tivo Roamio, and it works GREAT. NEVER any problems. House was built in 1986.

So I won't put Powerline down. It has ALWAYS worked for me.

If I do have issues, I will let you know. I will be adding only the ONE MINI.

I already have a STREAM added to the network, but that is directly connected(ethernet) to my Netgear 6300 Wireless Router.


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## brianbunge (Jan 31, 2014)

I'm using an Apple Airport Express as a wireless bridge and it's working flawlessly.


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## bobd (Jan 30, 2002)

My Bolt and Mini are not near my router so I first went with WUMC710's at each, it worked but would lose router connection almost daily and I'd have to reset it. So I switched to RE6500 range extenders. That has been working flawlessly.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

The two antennae are probably helpful. Glad it's working.


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## sbb_Fios_MD (Jan 7, 2016)

Brian: I saw that you are "using an Apple Airport Express as a wireless bridge and it's working flawlessly"

Can you give me more details on how you have that set up and what other equipment, if any, is involved.

I am trying to get the contents of my Bolt to a Tivo Mini and TV that are in another room. I can not lay Ethernet or Cox or HDMI between the two places.

Thanks for your help.


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## DallasGG (May 5, 2015)

DallasGG said:


> I tried the powerline adapters on one of my Mini's and although it worked, it would lose the connection every 5-10 minutes. That was pretty annoying because when the Mini loses it's connection, it doesn't keep track of where you are in the recording and you have to fast forward back to the spot you left off. I switched to a wifi bridge and for me it's much more consistent. I have almost no lost connections now.
> 
> From what I've read on this forum, the powerline adapters can be very hit and miss. Mine seemed to be more miss.
> 
> ...


An update. I tried using an Airlink 101 Access point (an old model - AP671W) and although it worked, it would occasionally lose it's connection and over time it was getting worse. Even worse, sometimes when it lost power it would have to be set up again from scratch...a real pain. So I used that until recently.

Then last week I decided to try a TP-Link range extender via ethernet cable hooked to the Mini (model TL-WA855RE). For me it works much much better than the powerline adapters and the Airlink Access point. I have not had any lost connections since I started using it about a week ago. Anyway, for someone looking for a wireless solution to their Mini, this might be worth trying.

Here's is that item listed on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-Wi-F...TF8&qid=1468599872&sr=8-1&keywords=tl-wa855re


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## DallasGG (May 5, 2015)

An update: I've gone back and forth from using powerline adapters, access point and range extender. Recently the range extender became very unreliable after I switched to a new wireless router. Previous to that I had mixed success with powerline adapters. Sometimes they seemed to work well but at other times they didn't. I was just about ready to pack up my Mini because it was disconnecting so much with my various options. But before I did that I decided to give my powerline adapters one more try because I had just switched to a new wifi router. The huge surprise to me is that the powerline adapters have been working flawlessly for the last 2 weeks...no disconnections and no loss of signal. I was completely surprised! I'm curious as to why the powerline adapters are now working without any issues. Anyway, my questions to anyone are:

1) Have there been recent software changes to either the Roamio OTA or Mini to make streaming (buffering, etc) more efficient with would allow the powerline adapters to work better?
2) Do powerline adapters work differently/more efficiently depending on the wifi router?
3) Could the powerline adapters be working better just because of a change in what's plugged into the electrical outlets in my house? In other words, could I have had something plugged into an electrical outlet (but not plugged in now) in the past that conflicted with the powerline adapters working well?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

DallasGG said:


> 1) Have there been recent software changes to either the Roamio OTA or Mini to make streaming (buffering, etc) more efficient with would allow the powerline adapters to work better?
> 2) Do powerline adapters work differently/more efficiently depending on the wifi router?
> 3) Could the powerline adapters be working better just because of a change in what's plugged into the electrical outlets in my house? In other words, could I have had something plugged into an electrical outlet (but not plugged in now) in the past that conflicted with the powerline adapters working well?


1) There have been network changes, but it's hard to know when you had problem and what version software was used. At one time a disconnected TiVo would stick around on My Shows. Now it's greyed out in one minute.
2) Everything works better with a good router. 
3) No clue, but it sounds logical.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Powerline is a crapshoot just like WiFi, both are subject to interference. Can work great for days/weeks/months and then get crappy, might never work right, or work flawlessly all the time.


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

slowbiscuit said:


> Powerline is a crapshoot just like WiFi, both are subject to interference. Can work great for days/weeks/months and then get crappy, might never work right, or work flawlessly all the time.


The actual Mini unit also has something to do with it. I use powerline and the first Mini (v1) would work fine, except for Netflix, which would give an error trying to load. When I hooked up a different Mini (also v1) in its place, everything worked (and is still working) fine without any errors, including Netflix.


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## m.s (Mar 8, 2007)

slowbiscuit said:


> Powerline is a crapshoot just like WiFi,


No. WiFi is a crapshoot because of interference from the neighbors. Powerline is an internal issue, and depends only on thing under local control.

Either can work. But, one has control over powerline, not WiFi. For $100, you can test both.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Test sure, possibly fix at a reasonable cost maybe. Which is why both are crapshoots, doesn't matter where the interference is.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

My experience is that with wireless, assuming you can use 5GHz, is more consistent than powerline, trying to get by with using the 2.4GHz band, unless you live very far from any neighbors is pretty much a waste of time due to wireless congestion. I tested a number of these powerline adapters in various homes. In some locations the powerline, would simply not work depending on the circuits being used and even when they did work, it was rare to ever get higher than a small fraction of the rated throughput and these signals would sometimes be effected by "electrical" interference such as fluorescent lights and vacuum cleaners. 
I have seen some reports of success with the powerline equipment though and I would not completely rule them out. When trying them I suggest buying from a source which has a friendly source with an easy return policy.
My go to recommendation is Ethernet first, then MoCA, then wireless, and then powerline.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

I'd probably go in the other direction. If you know what you're doing and how to configure, you can set up a wifi system that runs awfully fast. Powerline you're limited by your wiring but is probably more plug and play.



m.s said:


> No. WiFi is a crapshoot because of interference from the neighbors. Powerline is an internal issue, and depends only on thing under local control.
> 
> Either can work. But, one has control over powerline, not WiFi. For $100, you can test both.


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## Myrtledog (Jul 10, 2017)

I picked up a new Mini VOX yesterday and hooked it up by using an Ethernet cable from my Linsys Velop module next to the TV. I routinely get 80-100mbps down from this. it immediately saw my main TIVO and I got rock solid performance for 3 or 4 hours on various channels and streaming apps as well. Was very satisfied.

Last night before bed I turned it on again and the picture and sound were unwatchable. froze every 2 or 3 seconds. Tried a reboot but didn't fix it. Tested the thru put of the Velop module and got just over 100mbps down... WTH?

Any ideas from this learned group?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Myrtledog said:


> I picked up a new Mini VOX yesterday and hooked it up by using an Ethernet cable from my *Linsys Velop* module next to the TV. ... Last night before bed I turned it on again and the picture and sound were unwatchable. *froze every 2 or 3 seconds*. Tried a reboot but didn't fix it. Tested the thru put of the Velop module and got just over 100mbps down... WTH?


Possibly related... IPtv and multicast on the Velop - Linksys Community

Also... Linksys Official Support - Enabling Filter Multicast on a Linksys router

(You might try it with "Filter multicast" both enabled and disabled; and you'll want to power reset your TiVo boxes between test attempts.)


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## Myrtledog (Jul 10, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Possiibly related... IPtv and multicast on the Velop - Linksys Community
> 
> Also... Linksys Official Support - Enabling Filter Multicast on a Linksys router
> 
> (You might try it with "Filter multicast" both enabled and disabled; and you'll want to power reset your TiVo boxes between test attempts.)


Thanks. Will try this tonight.

If this was the issue, why would it have worked flawlessly for hours yesterday afternoon?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Myrtledog said:


> If this was the issue, why would it have worked flawlessly for hours yesterday afternoon?


I don't know, off-hand.

I'd recommend starting your own thread on this, both to attract the right eyeballs and for future readers who might come across the same issue.


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## Myrtledog (Jul 10, 2017)

good idea. I'll try that.

Thanks!


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> I don't know, off-hand.
> I'd recommend starting your own thread on this, both to attract the right eyeballs and for future readers who might come across the same issue.


Looks like the D-Link DAP-1650 works well . I haven't had any disconnects. The UI is not so good, but that's a D-Link characteristic.


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