# NEW Wireless N adapter



## lofreco (Apr 9, 2010)

Word from TIVO online chat and phone support is that the NEW Tivo Wireless N adapter will be available tomorrow, Sunday, April 25th for $89.99. Can anyone CONFIRM this??


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I actually want to say my Best Buy store that just opened Friday had them in stock and on the shelf. The Price sounds correct. I was surprised when I saw them since I didn't know they were out but then I wasn't really looking for them either.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

$90 seems high to me. I would have thought $60.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

BlackBetty said:


> $90 seems higher to me. I would have thought $60.


If it was $60 I would probably get one or two. But for $90 I can get a Dlink Wireless bridge that handles 5Ghz and 2.4Ghz wireless N. And has four gigabit ports. Performance is identical to a wired connection with it. 90mbs transfers from Premiere to Premiere with no issues


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## sdzc (Sep 4, 2005)

This will be a silly question I am sure, but the non-N Tivo wireless adapters will work with the Premiere correct?


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

sdzc said:


> This will be a silly question I am sure, but the non-N Tivo wireless adapters will work with the Premiere correct?


Correct.


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## pdonoghu (Mar 6, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> If it was $60 I would probably get one or two. But for $90 I can get a Dlink Wireless bridge that handles 5Ghz and 2.4Ghz wireless N. And has four gigabit ports. Performance is identical to a wired connection with it. 90mbs transfers from Premiere to Premiere with no issues


From Tivo's press release:
http://pr.tivo.com/easyir/customrel...ersion=live&prid=592919&releasejsp=custom_150

It is a wireless bridge working on both 2.4 and 5 Ghz bands. Since it is compatible with all dual tuner Tivos, and all dual tuner Tivos have Ethernet ports; I'm assuming it connects via Ethernet, and not USB. It remains to be seen how many ports it has, and how many devices it can support.

I would also expect that once it has been out for awhile, it will be discounted by the usual vendors.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

pdonoghu said:


> From Tivo's press release:
> *http://pr.tivo.com/easyir/customrel...ersion=live&prid=592919&releasejsp=custom_150
> *
> It is a wireless bridge working on both 2.4 and 5 Ghz bands. Since it is compatible with all dual tuner Tivos, and all dual tuner Tivos have Ethernet ports; I'm assuming it connects via Ethernet, and not USB. It remains to be seen how many ports it has, and how many devices it can support.
> ...


FYP - You double pasted the link


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## pdonoghu (Mar 6, 2003)

orangeboy said:


> FYP - You double pasted the link


Thanks. Fixed the link.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

pdonoghu said:


> From Tivo's press release:
> http://pr.tivo.com/easyir/customrel...ersion=live&prid=592919&releasejsp=custom_150
> 
> It is a wireless bridge working on both 2.4 and 5 Ghz bands. Since it is compatible with all dual tuner Tivos, and all dual tuner Tivos have Ethernet ports; I'm assuming it connects via Ethernet, and not USB. It remains to be seen how many ports it has, and how many devices it can support.
> ...


Yes the TiVo wireless N adapter handles 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz. But for around the same price I can get a wireless bridge (with gigabit ports) and connect four devices. I use six of the Dlink Bridges/APs. All the 100mbs devices attached have identical performance to being on a wired connection. Any gigabit devices have no issues getting 150mbs throughput going through the wireless bridges. I'll probably be moving more of my 100mbs wired devices to the wireless bridges and take them off my gigabit wired network.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

pdonoghu said:


> Since it is compatible with all dual tuner Tivos, and all dual tuner Tivos have Ethernet ports; I'm assuming it connects via Ethernet, and not USB.


When did they add ethernet to the S2DT units?


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

SullyND said:


> When did they add ethernet to the S2DT units?


The S2DT's have Always had Ethernet. The S2's only had USB ports.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

BlackBetty said:


> The S2DT's have Always had Ethernet. The S2's only had USB ports.


Huh. I didn't know that. An ethernet bridge makes a lot of sense then.


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## wp746911 (Feb 19, 2005)

I'd imagine the price will drop a little and/or can be found on sale cheaper at times...

That being said nothing beats a nice wired ethernet connection! N is great (and maybe sometimes its just as good) but if you can drop a wire.


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## wmccain (Dec 16, 2002)

I am not sure of the TiVo wireless adapters, but most vendors favor adapters that connect to the USB ports, even if the component also has an Ethernet port. The reason is "ease of configuration".

With a USB-connected adapter, the component can display its own Wi-Fi configuration menus that set the adapter to recognize (and use) your wireless network. With an Ethernet-connected adapter, the adapter must be configured by external means, which can be cumbersome (although some have "zero-config" or Web-browser interfaces).

Personally, I recommend avoiding wireless adapters altogether. Run an Ethernet cable to a location behind your components  and, if necessary, install a 5-port or 8-port Ethernet switch. As it stands now, in my home theater, I have at least five network-connected components: a Blu-ray player, a Blu-ray changer, a DirecTV DVR, a TiVo Premier DVR, and a Sony front projector. Much faster and more reliable to have them all WIRED!


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

wmccain said:


> I am not sure of the TiVo wireless adapters, but most vendors favor adapters that connect to the USB ports, even if the component also has an Ethernet port. The reason is "ease of configuration".
> 
> With a USB-connected adapter, the component can display its own Wi-Fi configuration menus that set the adapter to recognize (and use) your wireless network. With an Ethernet-connected adapter, the adapter must be configured by external means, which can be cumbersome (although some have "zero-config" or Web-browser interfaces).
> 
> Personally, I recommend avoiding wireless adapters altogether. Run an Ethernet cable to a location behind your components - and, if necessary, install a 5-port or 8-port Ethernet switch. As it stands now, in my home theater, I have at least five network-connected components: a Blu-ray player, a Blu-ray changer, a DirecTV DVR, a TiVo Premier DVR, and a Sony front projector. Much faster and more reliable to have them all WIRED!


I have over seventy devices on my gigabit network. I've been running gigabit for nine years now. But with wireless N speeds so fast now, I plan on converting many of my 100mbs devices to wireless by using the Dlink DAP1522 wireless bridges. I have half a dozen of them right now with two in Access Point mode running at 5Ghz. There has never been any issues with reliabilty for me. They have been just as reliable as my wired gigabit network. And every 100 mbs device I've used with the wireless bridges have had identical performance to being on a wired network. All my devices are on a UPS so my network(wireless and wired) will be up for 15 to 20 hours during a power outage. While my devices will be up for 3 to 20 hours during a power outage depending on the electonic device.

It's so much better having less wires running around. I'll probably put most of my Premeires on the wireless bridges soon. Especially since they have no issue getting 90mbs transfer rates from Premiere to Premiere using the wireless Bridges.


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## puckettcg (Feb 10, 2006)

Maybe a dumb question, but is there any reason to buy a wireless-N adapter if your router is still a G-Router? Just wondering. 

My apple TV has built-in wireless N and seems to be faster than the Tivo but maybe that's because of Tivo and not the adapter. 

Thanks


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## brasscat (Mar 31, 2002)

$90 is almost 1/3rd cost of a new Premiere box. Very high priced, for something that should have been integrated into the unit (like Moxy, Wii, SP3, etc etc).


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

brasscat said:


> $90 is almost 1/3rd cost of a new Premiere box. Very high priced, for something that should have been integrated into the unit (like Moxy, Wii, SP3, etc etc).


The Moxi doesn't have WiFi at all according to their FAQ. With the PS3 or Wii you'll be buying an adapter anyway if you want 802.11n.

Good info from the OP. The wireless N adapter is up on the TiVo site now:
https://www3.tivo.com/store/accessories-networking.do#AN0100?WT.ac=tivohome_wirelessn_content_body


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## bobrt6676 (Dec 31, 2007)

Checked out Bestbuy today no luck. They only had the Linksys bridge ($99). No D-Link bridges. If they are practically the same price I will probably stick with the Tivo adapter when available at BB. (have GC and rewards to spend )


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

bobrt6676 said:


> Checked out Bestbuy today no luck. They only had the Linksys bridge ($99). No D-Link bridges. If they are practically the same price I will probably stick with the Tivo adapter when available at BB. (have GC and rewards to spend )


BestBuy would probably charge to much for the Dlink DAP-1522 anyway. Amazon has them for $89.99 right now. although the price does seem to fluctuate. Sometimes it's lower and sometimes it goes over $100.
As soon as I get my amazon Reward Certificates I'll pick up two more DAP1522 units, bringing my total up to eight.


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## wmccain (Dec 16, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> It's so much better having less wires running around.


Well, that's why they have horse races. Personally, I'm just not a "wireless guy"  I don't even own a cell phone (although I write software for iPhones, which I test on iPod touches). I like the security of having everything HARDWIRED.

The only exceptions that I make are for hand-held remote controls, mice, and keyboards  which can be RF (Wi-Fi or ZigBee or Bluetooth or proprietary).

I spent many years learning all the tricks of the custom installers. There are no visible wires in my house  they are all concealed inside walls, under floors and above ceilings, and inside racks.


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## Am_I_Evil (Apr 7, 2009)

aaronwt said:


> BestBuy would probably charge to much for the Dlink DAP-1522 anyway. Amazon has them for $89.99 right now. although the price does seem to fluctuate. Sometimes it's lower and sometimes it goes over $100.
> As soon as I get my amazon Reward Certificates I'll pick up two more DAP1522 units, bringing my total up to eight.


got mine on eBay brand new buy it now for $69.99.....very happy with my decision...


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

wmccain said:


> Well, that's why they have horse races. Personally, I'm just not a "wireless guy"  I don't even own a cell phone (although I write software for iPhones, which I test on iPod touches). I like the security of having everything HARDWIRED.
> 
> The only exceptions that I make are for hand-held remote controls, mice, and keyboards  which can be RF (Wi-Fi or ZigBee or Bluetooth or proprietary).
> 
> I spent many years learning all the tricks of the custom installers. There are no visible wires in my house  they are all concealed inside walls, under floors and above ceilings, and inside racks.


yes hiding wires isn't difficult if the time is spent to do it.. I'm just sick of dealing with them especially since I change out and/or add equipment so often it can be a pain to deal with sometimes. and if I can get idnetical performance from a wireless bridge, with the reliability of a wired connection, which I do, then it's much easier to just do wireless.


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## brasscat (Mar 31, 2002)

nrc said:


> The Moxi doesn't have WiFi at all according to their FAQ. With the PS3 or Wii you'll be buying an adapter anyway if you want 802.11n.


Oops - you're right the Moxi doesn't have wireless integrated. But still, do you disagree that TiVo should have included wifi of any kind? And do you think they're selling their N adapters at a fair price?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

brasscat said:


> And do you think they're selling their N adapters at a fair price?


Most wireless-n bridges retail for more than $90. I would expect the price to go lower over time through TiVo's retail partners. It certainly isn't highly over priced.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

brasscat said:


> But still, do you disagree that TiVo should have included wifi of any kind?


Yes. I do not want to pay for hardware that I would not use.


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## brasscat (Mar 31, 2002)

orangeboy said:


> Yes. I do not want to pay for hardware that I would not use.


Snarky answers, thanks. The component costs for integrated wifi is less than $1. And the USB adapter isn't a bridge, so that reasoning is lousy.

I'm an Apple lover, so I understand fanboy devotion. But the devotion on this forum for Tivo is way overblown. I've had TiVo since the first gen 20 gig model, made by Philips, so I claim some experience points earns me the right to have a fair opinion.

TiVo is supposed to be a best-of-breed brand. So I criticize fairly with that approach... $90 is too much for a wireless USB network adapter.

An internet connection is a requirement. They should have included something other than just wired ethernet, some kind of wireless like PS3 and Wii does. Thats my criticism, and notice I'm not being derogatory about it.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

brasscat said:


> ...The component costs for integrated wifi is less than $1...


Huh? Cost of the component is irrelevant. Why should _I_ pay for something that _you_ want?


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## dcborn61 (Dec 9, 2002)

orangeboy said:


> Why should _I_ pay for something that _you_ want?


The answer is that by including a feature that makes networking easier, TiVo should be able to sell more units, which benefits all users of the platform.

No one individual is going to use every feature in a product.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

brasscat said:


> Snarky answers, thanks. The component costs for integrated wifi is less than $1. And the USB adapter isn't a bridge, so that reasoning is lousy.


A wireless-n chip on the board would cost more than $1 per box. And the new Wireless-N adapter is NOT USB. I suggest you check again.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

Dang it. I posted this in another Forum earlier today. I looked around for it... Why in the heck would you post in here? This is not just for the Premiere... Now I feel stupid...


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## bobrt6676 (Dec 31, 2007)

anyone have experience with this adapter/Brand?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833181119

At about 53.00, about 60% lower cost than the Tivo or the Belkin adapter.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

rainwater said:


> A wireless-n chip on the board would cost more than $1 per box. And the new Wireless-N adapter is NOT USB. I suggest you check again.


Broadcom now offers high-performance, dual-band 802.11n-on-a-chip solutions (PDF) for under $10. This is the solution used in the Roku HD XR.

Dave Zatz reported that the Premiere was originally designed for release in late 2009. Based on TiVo's component selection, it certainly looks like the product was designed in mid 2009. Broadcom's 802.11n-on-a-chip solutions weren't available at the time. Roku deemed the new, low-cost 802.11n solutions important enough to delay their Roku HD XR, but TiVo evidently did not.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

bkdtv said:


> Broadcom now offers high-performance, dual-band 802.11n-on-a-chip solutions (PDF) available for under $10. This is the solution used in the Roku HD XR.
> 
> Dave Zatz reported that the Premiere was originally designed for release in late 2009. Based on TiVo's component selection, it certainly looks like the product was designed in mid 2009. Broadcom's dual-band 802.11n-on-a-chip solutions weren't available at the time. Roku deemed the new, low-cost 802.11n solutions important enough to delay their Roku HD XR, but TiVo evidently did not.


It also resulted in roku having 3 versions of the same device all with very close costs. I never understood why they want to confuse their users this way. They could of only sold the HD XR and been able to reduce costs so that it was sold for the price the the HD box (without wireless).

I do wish the device shipped with wireless-n, but at the end of the day, it isn't important to me since my entertainment center consists of lots of devices that require a network connection (xbox, bluray player, slingbox, etc). So I already have a bridge solution.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> Broadcom now offers high-performance, dual-band 802.11n-on-a-chip solutions (PDF) available for under $10. This is the solution used in the Roku HD XR.
> 
> Dave Zatz reported that the Premiere was originally designed for release in late 2009. Based on TiVo's component selection, it certainly looks like the product was designed in mid 2009. Broadcom's dual-band 802.11n-on-a-chip solutions weren't available at the time. Roku deemed the new, low-cost 802.11n solutions important enough to delay their Roku HD XR, but TiVo evidently did not.


Even if they had waited for this $10 solution. Most likely it would have only been available in the XL Premiere.


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## brasscat (Mar 31, 2002)

rainwater said:


> A wireless-n chip on the board would cost more than $1 per box. And the new Wireless-N adapter is NOT USB. I suggest you check again.


I never said integrated n chip. And why are you arguing with my opinion? Wireless boards for cell phones, like the orignal iPhone, is less than $1... i was going by that.

You did burn me that the TiVo N isn't USB. Good job.


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## brasscat (Mar 31, 2002)

orangeboy said:


> Huh? Cost of the component is irrelevant. Why should _I_ pay for something that _you_ want?


Orangeboy, it's pointless to argue with you I'm sure, but what the hey; I'm sure if you look around in your home, there are plenty of items that you bought that have features you'll never use. Do you use all the external ports of your TV, your TiVo, or your stereo? Do you use all the features of your microwave oven, your mp3 player, and your cell phone, your home thermostat?

Wireless integration will be there eventuality. My opinion is TiVo should have included it with this model, as a convenience to its users, at least to make it more competitive. That's my opinion. Even an 11b would have been better than nothing at all.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

brasscat said:


> Orangeboy, it's pointless to argue with you I'm sure, but what the hey; I'm sure if you look around in your home, there are plenty of items that you bought that have features you'll never use. Do you use all the external ports of your TV, your TiVo, or your stereo? Do you use all the features of your microwave oven, your mp3 player, and your cell phone, your home thermostat?
> 
> Wireless integration will be there eventuality. My opinion is TiVo should have included it with this model, as a convenience to its users, at least to make it more competitive. That's my opinion. Even an 11b would have been better than nothing at all.


I hate all those extraneous inputs/outputs. I wish all the A/V devices only had HDMI and they got rid of the rest of the inputs/outputs since I never use them. And also lower the cost accordingly too.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

brasscat said:


> Orangeboy, it's pointless to argue with you I'm sure, but what the hey; I'm sure if you look around in your home, there are plenty of items that you bought that have features you'll never use. Do you use all the external ports of your TV, your TiVo, or your stereo? Do you use all the features of your microwave oven, your mp3 player, and your cell phone, your home thermostat?


Who's arguing? You asked a question, I answered. You didn't like (what you interpreted as) my "snarky" though valid answer, and tried to justify by saying that it wouldn't cost me that much for something you want. Your examples above only support my point that I am already paying for unused interfaces on the devices I own. Why would I want to compound that with yet another unused interface (wifi)?

If TiVo does add integrated wifi to their next device, what will you buy for me in return?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

brasscat said:


> I never said integrated n chip. And why are you arguing with my opinion?


There's no way they would do it if it wasn't integrated. Otherwise, the performance using the underpowered cpu would make it worthless.


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

*NEW Tivo Wireless N adapter for $89.99 only means the NEW TiVo Keyboard Premium Remote will cost $159.99. *


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

Who is the dumb product manager at TiVo, who price this wireless N out for its company!!! They should fire that guy too.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

MediaLivingRoom said:


> Who is the dumb product manager at TiVo, who price this wireless N out for its company!!! They should fire that guy too.


No one is forcing you to buy it.

the wireless G adapter seemed overpriced as well. But it didn't stop people from purchasing it.


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

This is a better product than the TiVo Wireless N...

Netgear 5 GHZ WIRELESS-N HD ACCESS POINT/BRIDGE WNHDE111
http://syndicate.sellpoint.net/Netg...1_MP/MPPlayer/__MPPlayer.html?r=1272391786705

*They both have 6 Internal Smart Antennas*

http://www.amazon.com/Netgear-WNHDEB111-100NAS-Wireless-Access-Point/dp/B00126R3P6


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## shaown (Jul 1, 2002)

I'd say its pretty intelligent Product Manager. A huge number of folks will buy cause it shares the same name as the device. Those savvy enough to go for cheaper solutions, are a smaller percentage of the population, and will probably go pick up their cheaper solution, regardless of if its 10 bucks cheaper or 50 bucks cheapers. 
I suspect they are maximizing their porfit for this addon.
-Shaown


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

MediaLivingRoom said:


> Netgear 5 GHZ WIRELESS-N HD ACCESS POINT/BRIDGE WNHDE111
> http://syndicate.sellpoint.net/Netg...1_MP/MPPlayer/__MPPlayer.html?r=1272391786705
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Netgear-WNHDEB111-100NAS-Wireless-Access-Point/dp/B00126R3P6


Keep in mind that any product configured as repeater or repeater bridge will cut your 802.11n throughput in half. To attain full performance with 802.11n, each wireless device must be configured as a client bridge. From what I understand, the TiVo 802.11n adapter is configured as a client bridge by default, making it a relatively simple solution to achieve good performance.

As an example, a network with three TiVo 802.11n adapters will provide *triple* the network throughput of a network with an Apple Airport 802.11n and two Airport Express 802.11n boxes configured as WDS repeaters (the default?).


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> As an example, a network with three TiVo 802.11n adapters will provide *triple* the network throughput of a network with an Apple Airport 802.11n and two Airport Express 802.11n boxes configured as WDS repeaters (the default?).


I don't know if the "default" for the Airport Express 802.11n is WDS repeater. But it doesn't have to be used that way. I think Apple's automatic configuration method is too confusing, because it's hard to know exactly what it's doing. So I used manual configuration to set mine to "join a wireless network".


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## jespenshade (Jul 26, 2009)

Can anybody help with this? I have a Premiere connected to a FIOS Actiontec B/G router using the Tivo-G USB & I max out at 13 Mb/s. It sounds like if I buy 1 Tivo-N USB I'll get the same result. If I would use a dual Tivo-N bridge, what kind of increase could I reasonably expect? >40-50 Mb/s?


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

MediaLivingRoom said:


> This is a better product than the TiVo Wireless N...


So you have already had your hands on th TiVo adapter? Did you pick one up at Best Buy? What sort of performance were you seeing with it before determining the Netgear product was better?

This is a better product than your Netgear
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d.html/ref=redir_mdp_mobile/187-1109957-9724460?a=B000OYJYGI


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

SullyND said:


> ..................
> 
> This is a better product than your Netgear
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d.html/ref=redir_mdp_mobile/187-1109957-9724460?a=B000OYJYGI


And a Cat5e cable will give you identical performance for less cost when running gigabit.


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## KrazyKiko (Mar 21, 2006)

I bought the doublepack for the Wireless N adapter...


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Newegg has the Dlink DAP1522 (AP/wireless Bridge)on sale for $70 with a Promocode today.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833127256


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

so, we just moved on Monday. The bedroom TV used to be about 20 feet from the router, but now it's 70 feet. Used to be fine 95&#37; on the G, now it's about 45%. An hour show used to take 45 minutes, now it's 1.5 hours.

I always heard N was much faster at short distances, but didn't have the range of G. Anyone think I'd be OK with the N adapter? I want the official one, so don't try to sell me on the bridges - I want tiny, I have little space and I have wireless on my Xbox already.

Anyway already have the N? How far away are you throwing your signal? Thanks!


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

on second thought, I can get a powerline kit from Netgear with a 4 port switch for $99.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

The Powerline adapters can introduce high latency which can affect streaming like from Netflix.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> The Powerline adapters can introduce high latency which can affect streaming like from Netflix.


i'm waiting for the Netgear XAVB5501 to come out, which is 500MB/sec and brand new with power interference filtering. It'll be more than the wireless adapter of course, but at least I can use it on anything and have a switch for my Xbox/BD too.

The Powerline AV 500 Adapter Kit (XAVB5001) and the Powerline AV+ 500 Adapter Kit (XAVB5501) will let users enjoy up to Gigabit-fast file streaming of movies and TV shows.

also my place was built in 2006, so everything is very solid and up to code.

on third thought, I might just buy the 200MB/sec one that's available NOW. I don't really need 500MB/sec to transfer shows. I don't even think the Tivo would be able to send that fast.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

b_scott said:


> i'm waiting for the Netgear XAVB5501 to come out, which is 500MB/sec and brand new with power interference filtering. It'll be more than the wireless adapter of course, but at least I can use it on anything and have a switch for my Xbox/BD too.
> 
> The Powerline AV 500 Adapter Kit (XAVB5001) and the Powerline AV+ 500 Adapter Kit (XAVB5501) will let users enjoy up to Gigabit-fast file streaming of movies and TV shows.
> 
> ...


With the help of either owned or borrowed equipment, I ran the gamut of wireless B (Series2), wireless G (Series2 & 3), powerline, wireless G extenders, and finally settled with MoCA+gigabit Switches. I haven't tried wireless N (bridged or other), but with the equipment that I have setup, I can't believe anything available (without tearing into walls/floors/ceilings) would be able to outperform my current setup.

Of course drilling into walls/floors/ceilings to run fiber connections would certainly outperform MoCA, but that is not practical in my case, since I live in an apartment...


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

Awesome. I ended up purchasing the Netgear AV 200 Kit setup from Amazon, so I'll let you know how that goes. I don't think MoCA would be something I would be interested in, don't even know where to start. Powerline seems like the best option for me - but I guess we'll see


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

b_scott said:


> on third thought, I might just buy the 200MB/sec one that's available NOW. I don't really need 500MB/sec to transfer shows. I don't even think the Tivo would be able to send that fast.


Be aware that those figures do not represent usable throughput. Those figures include overhead, which is quite substantial on powerline networks.

The 802.11g specification claims 54Mbps and 802.11n claims 200-400Mbps. Real-world throughput does not approach either figure, and the same is also true of powerline networking. Most reviews of 200Mbps powerline solutions find usable throughput of 30Mbps to 50Mbps, depending on distance and the quality of one's power lines.

With MoCA, claimed throughput is 175Mbps, but much less of that is required for overhead. Between two MoCA 1.1 devices like Netgear MCAB1001, users typically see 90Mbps of real-world throughput on a 100Mbps connection, with 75-85Mbps MRV between two TiVo Premiere DVRs.

Each MoCA adapter has a COAX IN and COAX OUT. One disconnects the coax from the TiVo and connects it to the COAX IN on the adapter; the COAX OUT connects to the TiVo. Setup is plug-and-play; there is no software to configure.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

you're also talking like $400 just for the two adapters. I'd rather stick in the $120 range and lose some of the speed. I only have a TivoHD on it anyway.

also, my place is brand new and well wired, and not that big. It's not a house, just a condo. I've read many reviews of around 150-170Mbps on speed tests. I'll give it a shot. My router is the Netgear WRT3700 which is dual band 300Mbps.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

b_scott said:


> you're also talking like $400 just for the two adapters. I'd rather stick in the $120 range and lose some of the speed. I only have a TivoHD on it anyway.


Ehh?

From Amazon, you can get a pair of Netgear MoCA adapters for $179 or a pair of Actiontec MoCA adapters for $140. If you don't care about power consumption, you can substitute Actiontec MI-424WR routers purchased for around $30 each.

This summer, Verizon plans to introduce a new revision of the Actiontec MI-424WR with a faster processor, MoCA 1.1 (up from 1.0), gigabit backplane, 802.11n, and reduced power consumption. That should be the ultimate solution, provided they can be found on ebay at a reasonable price.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

sorry I only saw one in the picture:

http://www.amazon.com/Netgear-MCAB1001-Coax-Ethernet-Adapter-Black/dp/B001N85NMI

I'll try the ones I bought, and if I have issues I'll check that out. Thanks!


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Note Netgear's kits include two adapters.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

b_scott said:


> sorry I only saw one in the picture:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Netgear-MCAB1001-Coax-Ethernet-Adapter-Black/dp/B001N85NMI
> 
> I'll try the ones I bought, and if I have issues I'll check that out. Thanks!


Read the book, don't just look at the cover!


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

haha, yeah i know. My thing with MoCA is it's pretty new and seems to have a lot of setup and/or issues from a lot of reviews. The powerline stuff I bought is plug and play and is like 95&#37; glowing reviews. So I'd rather give that a shot first for my purposes. If I was using the internet in my bedroom for lot of heavy file downloading over the net, I might need more speed. But I think the power line will work OK - in theory. We'll see how it works in practice. I'll keep you updated


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

b_scott said:


> haha, yeah i know. My thing with MoCA is it's pretty new and seems to have a lot of setup and/or issues from a lot of reviews. The powerline stuff I bought is plug and play and is like 95% glowing reviews. So I'd rather give that a shot first for my purposes. If I was using the internet in my bedroom for lot of heavy file downloading over the net, I might need more speed. But I think the power line will work OK - in theory. We'll see how it works in practice. I'll keep you updated


I've really seen the opposite. The vast majority of people get really good results off the bat from MoCA whereas many people have difficulty getting fast speeds out of powerline, which is very dependent on wiring.

I hope that it works for you, but from everything I've seen powerline is very dependent on home wiring whereas I can't think of anyone who has had trouble getting decent speeds out of MoCA. If you get a dedicated bridge (as opposed to configuring a router) there's no configuration involved. You just plug them in.

It's also not "new"-people on this forum have been using MoCA solutions for three years now.

I tout them a lot because it is really bizarre to me that people waste tons of time and money trying to get wireless or powerline to work when MoCA is so much easier and more reliable. I'd suggest taking a look at this thread where several posters were struggling to get wireless working, were convinced to try MoCA and immediately had great results.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7886933#post7886933


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

fyodor said:


> I've really seen the opposite. The vast majority of people get really good results off the bat from MoCA whereas many people have difficulty getting fast speeds out of powerline, which is very dependent on wiring.
> 
> I hope that it works for you, but from everything I've seen powerline is very dependent on home wiring whereas I can't think of anyone who has had trouble getting decent speeds out of MoCA.


Hopefully. From a review for the Netgear AV 200 Kit (released this Feb) stating that he heard there were issues running through your fuse box:

"Chris Geiser, Product Line Manager for NETGEAR Powerline here. Thanks for the positive review. Glad you like the product and it solves your problem. However, I just wanted to let you know, that latest generation Powerline products, like the XAVB2001 will easily work across multiple phases.

Powerline operates at a relative high frequency (2 to 30MHz range). At those higher frequencies, phase coupling is stronger due to lower impedance, so current Powerline technologies suffer less db loss (compared to previous Powerline technologies like X-10, which operated at the relatively low 120 kHz frequency). In addition, Poly-phase main service lines, poly-phase wiring to appliances (like your washer and dryer) and inter-winding capacitance at the main transformer all act as high-frequency bridges between phases. So you'll receive a few dB of signal loss, but not enough to stop communications altogether."


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

crazy how many large boxes i'd have to have just to have MoCA though. At least with power line it's just a small plug on the outlet.  With power line I'd need two router sized boxes plus a cable modem just in my tv cabinet, plus two router sized boxes in my bedroom for the MoCA box and the switch I'd need (would switches even work on top of everything else?).


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

b_scott said:


> haha, yeah i know. My thing with MoCA is it's pretty new and seems to have a lot of setup and/or issues from a lot of reviews. The powerline stuff I bought is plug and play and is like 95% glowing reviews. So I'd rather give that a shot first for my purposes. If I was using the internet in my bedroom for lot of heavy file downloading over the net, I might need more speed. But I think the power line will work OK - in theory. We'll see how it works in practice. I'll keep you updated


You probably saw this review, but here's a comparison of five 200Mbps powerline devices.

All five powerline solutions took 50-60 minutes to transfer 8.05GB of data from one room to another, which works out to 33-38Mbps. Cnet measured somewhat better performance, ranging from 35Mbps to 52Mbps.

I'll be interested to hear your results.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

I can't cancel the order now, but now i'm curious about MoCA. Maybe I'll get a MoCA kit and try both, see how each works and send back the one that I like less. Would you say that Netgear one is good? Or is there a better one I should try? Are there length issues with coax?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

b_scott said:


> haha, yeah i know. My thing with MoCA is it's pretty new and seems to have a lot of setup and/or issues from a lot of reviews. The powerline stuff I bought is plug and play and is like 95% glowing reviews. So I'd rather give that a shot first for my purposes. If I was using the internet in my bedroom for lot of heavy file downloading over the net, I might need more speed. But I think the power line will work OK - in theory. We'll see how it works in practice. I'll keep you updated


The problem I found with the Powerline adapters is you can't use them on a UPS. And for me, a UPS is a requirement for all my electronics. I want my network up and running, as well as all my elctronic devices, during a power outage.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> The problem I found with the Powerline adapters is you can't use them on a UPS. And for me, a UPS is a requirement for all my electronics. I want my network up and running, as well as all my elctronic devices, during a power outage.


AHHHHH TRUE. Good point. I didn't even think about that. That pretty much kills it for me.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

b_scott said:


> I can't cancel the order now, but now i'm curious about MoCA. Maybe I'll get a MoCA kit and try both, see how each works and send back the one that I like less. Would you say that Netgear one is good? Or is there a better one I should try? Are there length issues with coax?


I haven't checked the specifications on all MoCA adapters, but the Netgear is the only commercial adapter I know of with a newer MoCA 1.1 chipset. Unfortunately, it is also the most expensive.

If energy consumption isn't a major issue, you might keep your eye out for lower-cost Motorola NIM100 and Actiontec MI-424WR routers on ebay.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

At this point I'm looking to buy quality, and buy once. So you'd recommend the Netgear then? I have a Netgear 3700 router, so they'd match nicely.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

If top quality / performance is what you want, then the Netgear is a good choice.

Did you have two TiVos or one? If you have two TiVos, and neither is connected to your wired network, then you'll need two MoCA adapters, plus a third for the router.

If one TiVo is already connected to your wired network, then a pair will suffice; you'd connect one to the second TiVo and the other to a port on your Netgear router.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

My setup is this:

Living Room -

Wall (split to Tivo) > Cable Modem > Netgear 3700 Router > Xbox 360, PS3, Tivo Premiere XL (wired) - Wii (wireless)

Bedroom -

Wall > TivoHD - TivoHD, Xbox 360 (wireless)

Looking to make my Bedroom wired, and add a BD player 2.0 in there too.

also have two laptops and two iPhones using the wireless in my house.

edit: this is the switch that is coming for the Bedroom:

http://www.netgear.com/Products/Switches/DesktopSwitches/GS605av.aspx


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

b_scott said:


> My setup is this:
> 
> Living Room -
> 
> ...


Here's a pic of the Netgear MoCA adapter and a Netgear switch next to a wii for size comparison (the switch is stacked on top of the MoCA adapter):


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

that's not bad. I'll be turning off the lights most likely. thanks!


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

bkdtv said:


> I haven't checked the specifications on all MoCA adapters, but the Netgear is the only commercial adapter I know of with a newer MoCA 1.1 chipset. Unfortunately, it is also the most expensive.
> 
> If energy consumption isn't a major issue, you might keep your eye out for lower-cost Motorola NIM100 and Actiontec MI-424WR routers on ebay.


FWIW, I saw no improvement when I switched to 1.1 compliant adapters. So I wouldn't recommend spending more just to get it.

If you won't mind the size, this set of NIM-100 bridges is a pretty good deal.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Set-2-Motorola-...md=ViewItem&pt=PCC_Modems&hash=item255a4c62e2


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

Netgear MoCA's coming today! And the powerline Netgears that I probably won't open. Switch coming tomorrow.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

b_scott said:


> Netgear MoCA's coming today! And the powerline Netgears that I probably won't open. Switch coming tomorrow.


You will not be disappointed. :up:


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## Mark McM (Oct 24, 2007)

I just bought a Tivo Premiere XL, and already have a Tivo Wireless G adapter. I'm wondering if it is worthwhile to replace the Wireless G adapter with the Wireless N, given the present situation:

1) My internet service is currently 3 Mbps DSL
2) I have only one television and one Tivo (no MRV)
3) I only rarely Tivo Desktop to transfer programs to/from a PC.
4) I regularly download programs from Amazon, but do not stream programs from Netflix.

I image that the Wireless N would improve transfer speeds between the Tivo and Tivo Desktop. Would a Wireless N adapter improve download speed from Amazon, of is the DSL line the bottleneck? 

I am presently considering changing my internet service from DSL to Comcast cable, which promises speeds of "up to 15 mbps". If I were to start using Netflix streaming, would a Wireless N adapter improve performance, or would the internet connection still be the bottleneck?

Thanks for any guidance that can be offered!


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I'd stick with the wireless G. It should have no issue with 3mbs speeds. The ones my girlfriend uses on her S3 units have no issues getting around 20mbs speeds.

Although if you get a faster connection then I would switch to wireless N for more overhead. But with 3mbs DSL you should have any issues unless you are very far from the access point.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

both just came - i'll keep the power line one at work to send back if i'm happy with the MoCA


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

got the MoCA all set up. I'm getting 13.36Mb/s incoming from Tivo HD to Premiere XL, and 15.33 Mb/s the other way. I don't know if that's good or not.

I must mention that currently I have two 5~1000MHz splitters in my house, but I've ordered two 5~2400MHz splitters to replace them. Hopefully this will help. I have the two MoCA's set on "29" which I think is like 1900MHz.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

That's really low. Is there an 850 mhz setting? It might avoid problems with the splitters.

F


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

lowest seems to be 1100. I'll check again though.

edit: I hit the reset on both of them and left them as is. Seemed to speed it up a ton.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Use a lower frequency, say 1050MHz. Most cable systems only use up to 860MHz.

Once you've switched, connect to your TiVo Premiere at its IP address, i.e. https://tivoip/. Login with 'tivo' as the username and your Media Access Key as the password.

Right-click on the link and copy the URL. Paste it into your browser's address bar, and then replace *&Format=video/x-tivo-mpeg* at the end of the URL with *&Format=video%2Fx-tivo-raw-tts*. Then hit enter to start the download.

After the download is complete, check the reported throughput on the TiVo under Settings -> Phone & Network -> Network Diagnostics -> Transfer History -> Outgoing DVR transfer.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

the one in the second bedroom is an HD - can it send raw TTS?

edit: with TTS it says it's downloading at 3MB/s, over wireless N to my laptop.

it's doing about 1.7GB every 10 minutes, so 10GB/hour about. Some shows are around 3.2GB (this one, which is Happy Town on ABC) and some are around 7GB on CBS.

that's to my laptop though, not to the Tivo. Does the TivoHD convert to MPEG before it sends? That will slow it down.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

took 17.25 min for 3.19GB over wireless N. Says 24.32Mb/s. I should try a wired test in a bit.

That comes to 11GB/hour.

edit: tried wired and it's the same.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

Tried the TS file from the Premiere, which is just connected directly to the router and over wireless I got 8MB/s. Nothing to do with the MoCA just thought I'd post it. I guess it's about 65Mb/s.










Seems good


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## Goldwing2001 (Sep 30, 2006)

bkdtv said:


> Be aware that those figures do not represent usable throughput. Those figures include overhead, which is quite substantial on powerline networks.
> 
> The 802.11g specification claims 54Mbps and 802.11n claims 200-400Mbps. Real-world throughput does not approach either figure, and the same is also true of powerline networking. Most reviews of 200Mbps powerline solutions find usable throughput of 30Mbps to 50Mbps, depending on distance and the quality of one's power lines.
> 
> ...


Hi bkdtv - let me ask you...I don't know the differences between switches, hubs, routers. So let me ask you, what do I need to be able to use one MoCa adapter to connect two devices (TiVo & Blu-Ray Player)?

Thank You,
Tony


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Goldwing2001 said:


> Hi bkdtv - let me ask you...I don't know the differences between switches, hubs, routers. So let me ask you, what do I need to be able to use one MoCa adapter to connect two devices (TiVo & Blu-Ray Player)?


You need a switch. You would connect the MoCA adapter to one port on a 4-24 port switch, and then connect your TiVo, Blu-ray player, Xbox360, PS3, etc to other ports on the switch.

Here are some examples (first four results).



b_scott said:


> the one in the second bedroom is an HD - can it send raw TTS?
> 
> edit: with TTS it says it's downloading at 3MB/s, over wireless N to my laptop.
> 
> ...


TTS is the format TiVo uses for MRV (not PC compatible). If your TiVoHD maxed out at 3MB/s, that means the most it could do was 3MBps or 24Mbps via MRV with the currently tuned channels.

You should see anywhere from 8.5MB/s to 11MB/s with the TTS test on the Premiere in Classic, assuming there is no background indexing (as occurs immediately following a service connection) going on at the time. Typical, real-world throughput between Premieres is toward the middle of that range.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

so basically i'm doing average then or above over MoCA


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

Unfortunately the S3 tops out at 25 megabits/s regardless of connection type. If you really want to get a sense of how well your connection is performing you could plug your laptop into the MoCA bridge and run the premiere-to-laptop transfer test from there.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

switch attached, three devices over moca work like a charm. thanks for the recommendation - i'm a convert


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

anyone have any luck with a wireless access point in addition to your current wireless router - with Moca attached to the add'l access point? I'd like to extend my wireless signal for use on our laptops in the bedroom, which is where I wired the Moca adapters. I still want to keep that wired, but add in some wireless. Still too far to use wireless well from the living room on our devices like laptops and phones. Thought about this one:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1HTSQC6P0V9B6WBDV2B0

Now, part of me thinks I should just return the switch and get another router to use as an access point - but I don't think I can do that over Moca since I think it would involve using a crossover cable instead of pass through with Moca.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

I'm pretty sure people have done this, though $100 seems like an awful lot for an access point. 

I think that the problem with using a second router is that it would be trying to hand out IP addresses to clients and grab uplink IP addresses from your cable modem. There's no reason that that they couldn't let you disable these functions, but for whatever reason, more featured products like routers cost less than wireless access points and they won't let you disable the router functionality on the routers.

Does it have to be an N product? I used to use an MI424WR as a moca bridge/wireless access point. It bridged directly-connected devices and wireless devices over the MoCA network. It was wireless G only, though.


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## ItsRounder (Feb 28, 2010)

I bought a ZyXEL WAP3205 Wireless N Access Point / Ethernet Bridge and had it set up with my N network in no time. It's generally just under $50 from most vendors and at that price I think it's a pretty good deal that's worth looking at. It has two ethernet ports so you can also connect another device besides the TiVo if you need to.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

I'd like for it to be N with G compat, so I can run N on both laptops. The only things in my house right now that are not N are our iPhones - and I think the iPhone HD will be N. 

Thanks for the suggestions, ItsRounder I'll look into that router. Easy to set up? Quick look at reviews says it needs to be on 192.168.1.3 to set up.


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## ItsRounder (Feb 28, 2010)

b_scott said:


> Thanks for the suggestions, ItsRounder I'll look into that router. Easy to set up? Quick look at reviews says it needs to be on 192.168.1.3 to set up.


That's only for the very first initial setup and can easily be changed. I found it very easy to set up and I think the reviews from people saying it was difficult probably have next to zero computer experience. If you know how to change your own IP address that's probably the hardest part of getting it set up.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

I've found that by changing my G frequency, I can pick up G ok for laptops in the bedroom - so I won't be getting an access point. Thanks for all th suggestions!


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## DigitalAnarchist (Jan 21, 2004)

fyodor said:


> Unfortunately the S3 tops out at 25 megabits/s regardless of connection type. If you really want to get a sense of how well your connection is performing you could plug your laptop into the MoCA bridge and run the premiere-to-laptop transfer test from there.


Ah, very insightful. So I would not expect the TiVo 802.11n adapter to be any faster than my 802.11g TiVo adapter connection w/"90%" signal strength with my S3's.

BTW, is that 25mbps total I/O or just one-way? Rather, if I'm sending AND receiving at the same time would an S3 achieve 50mbps (25 up and 25 down) or would both slow down for a combined total of 25mpbs?


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Best Buy had a combo deal in today's flyer for the Premiere and an N wireless adapter for (IIRC) $349.


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