# Unable to get Bolt to work with MoCa and antenna



## CIntiPW (May 12, 2021)

I recently bought a Bolt 4-tuner OTA or CableCARD. This is my first TiVo. I have no cable card (my intent is only to use OTA). Because I have a mini I installed a bridge at my router/modem setup in another room. I can view recorded shows on the mini-connected TV so it appears MoCa is working. The problem arises when I try to have both antenna and cable/MoCa connected to the Bolt. If I'm antenna only (no MoCa on the Bolt) I get OTA channels. When I add the cable/moca to the mix I lose OTA reception. Note: do have Spectrum cable (in addition to internet) but I don't plan to use Tivo to record any programs - we're only subscribing to cable during baseball season.

My configuration is:

Antenna coax to POE to 1 "out" leg of splitter
Cable/MoCa coax to 1 "out" leg of splitter
"In" leg of splitter to Bolt. 
 I've viewed about 1000 diagrams (!) and all show the POE on the OTA antenna leg. The POE I'm using was advertised on Amazon as TiVo approved. What am I missing? And if (!) I get this to work my intent is to replace my Bolt OTA/cable with a Bolt OTA (no cable capability) so I'm only paying $7/mo instead of $14. I'm hoping the configuration that works for this will also work for that. I didn't realize I'd have to pay $14 even if not using a cable card so I bought more capability than I needed - and the whole point of TiVo is to save $$$, no?


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## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

You can’t mix cable internet signals with OTA tv signals on the same line. Use a MoCa adapter on the Bolt to strip the network out, connect the Bolt to the antenna and use Ethernet off the adapter for networking.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

A Diplexer is commonly used to separate the lower frequency TV Channel signals and the higher frequency MoCA Signal.










-KP


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

CIntiPW said:


> And if (!) I get this to work my intent is to replace my Bolt OTA/cable with a Bolt OTA (no cable capability) so I'm only paying $7/mo instead of $14. I'm hoping the configuration that works for this will also work for that.


Note that the Bolt that supports both OTA and cable has built-in MoCA support, but the Bolt OTA-only does not.

Although it is possible to share OTA and MoCA signals on the same coax, the catv and DOCSIS signals on the Spectrum feed will clash with OTA signals. You can't have both on the same section of coax.

I suspect you might be referring to a document from TiVo that is supposed to show how to connect MoCA and OTA. That document is seriously flawed and should be ignored.


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## CIntiPW (May 12, 2021)

snerd said:


> That document is seriously flawed and should be ignored.


Oh good lord.....


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## CIntiPW (May 12, 2021)

snerd said:


> Note that the Bolt that supports both OTA and cable has built-in MoCA support, but the Bolt OTA-only does not.


Just to be clear: 
I (think I ) understand that the Bolt OTA+Cable has a built-in bridge (for lack of a more correct technical description) so that if wired ethernet is available at the box one doesn't need a stand-alone bridge. But I just want to be sure that a Bolt OTA-only can communicate to a mini if a stand-alone bridge is installed in the network, is that correct (the latter part - don't care too much about the first part of this statement)?


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## CIntiPW (May 12, 2021)

kpeters59 said:


> A Diplexer is commonly used to separate the lower frequency TV Channel signals and the higher frequency MoCA Signal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. After posting my question I read through many posts and came upon one of your replies to another confused soul, which discussed the above device. I'll give it a whirl. TiVo could do a much better job in explaining how to hook things up so I appreciate your (and others') expertise.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

CIntiPW said:


> Just to be clear:
> I (think I ) understand that the Bolt OTA+Cable has a built-in bridge (for lack of a more correct technical description) so that if wired ethernet is available at the box one doesn't need a stand-alone bridge. But I just want to be sure that a Bolt OTA-only can communicate to a mini if a stand-alone bridge is installed in the network, is that correct (the latter part - don't care too much about the first part of this statement)?


That is correct, as long as you understand that the Bolt OTA-only must have wired ethernet. An external MoCA adapter can supply MoCA signals for the mini.

I'd suggest doing a search on TCF for "OTA MoCA" to find threads where this has been discussed in more detail. The easiest solution might be to connect coax from the antenna directly to the Bolt OTA, and keep the MoCA on separate coax that is connected to cable, MoCA adapter and mini. That will give the strongest OTA signals.

You could even have three different coax cables: cable feed exclusively to modem, antenna feed exclusively to Bolt OTA, and a MoCA adapter that feeds a splitter connecting to multiple minis. If there is only one Mini, then coax from the MoCA adapter could connect directly to the Mini.

If you need to use the existing Bolt to sometimes work with cable and sometimes work with OTA, you're going to have to change the connections to coax whenever you switch the source of TV channels.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

CIntiPW said:


> I recently bought a Bolt 4-tuner OTA or CableCARD.


So it's equipped with a built-in MoCA bridge.


CIntiPW said:


> My configuration is:
> 
> Antenna coax to POE to 1 "out" leg of splitter
> Cable/MoCa coax to 1 "out" leg of splitter
> "In" leg of splitter to Bolt.


As suggested above, replace this splitter with a Holland DPD2 diplexer, using the following connections, and you'll be good-to-go:

Antenna coax to POE to ANT (VHF/UHF) port of diplexer
Cable/MoCa coax to SAT port of diplexer
"IN/OUT" diplexer port to Bolt.
Addl background on use of a diplexer >here<.



snerd said:


> I suspect you might be referring to a document from TiVo that is supposed to show how to connect MoCA and OTA. That document is seriously flawed and should be ignored.


Yep!


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## CIntiPW (May 12, 2021)

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU to all who responded and pointed me in the right direction. With the addition of the diplexer my Bolt and Mini get OTA and can communicate via the MoCa connection. I'm a happy camper!


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## CIntiPW (May 12, 2021)

Round 2: So I had already bid on a Bolt OTA when Snerd wrote "the Bolt OTA-only must have wired ethernet. An external MoCA adapter can supply MoCA signals for the mini" and "I'd suggest doing a search on TCF for "OTA MoCA" I promise I've done the latter but to be honest - most of those conversations get so deep in the woods I get totally lost. So forgive me for asking what's probably been answered before: Can a bridge be added at a Bolt OTA (only) to enable it to communicate with a Mini? I do not have ethernet at either device.

Again - I'm only pulling OTA - nothing from cable, so I'd like to use a Bolt OTA and cut my subscription fee in half. A savings of $84+ tax a year - that's a really nice dinner! Honestly - more than the dinner - I hate spending money needlessly. Or really, at all!


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Yes, with proper wiring.

You just need to keep your Cable Modem Signal separate from the OTA Signal. They will not coexist. 

That's what the Diplexer is for.

-KP


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

CIntiPW said:


> Can a bridge be added at a Bolt OTA (only) to enable it to communicate with a Mini?


Yes.

Is the plan to install the BOLT OTA where you currently have the BOLT working (via the diplexer workaround)?


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## CIntiPW (May 12, 2021)

krkaufman said:


> Is the plan to install the BOLT OTA where you currently have the BOLT working (via the diplexer workaround)?


Correct. So the current setup (to repeat for those who came late):

Bridge at modem and router
Coax from bridge and coax from modem to splitter outs, coax from splitter in to wall (so splitter used as "joiner")
coax from wall and coax from antenna with POE to diplexer then coax from diplexer to OTA+Cable capable Bolt
Coax from wall to mini.
The above works perfectly for the OTA+Cable capable bolt. What, if anything, could I do/add to this configuration to get the OTA-only Bolt to work with my mini?

Again - very grateful for help from those who understand this stuff. I didn't realize I'd need to be an expert in electronics to get this to work! (And frankly, it shouldn't be this hard, by which I mean: TiVo should do a much better job at explaining this or include components in the boxes to make connecting simpler. Anyone want to buy the company and make it user-friendly?  )


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

CIntiPW said:


> What, if anything, could I do/add to this configuration to get the OTA-only Bolt to work with my mini?


Easy enough. The diplexer is currently being used in order to get both OTA and MoCA to the MoCA-capable BOLT. With the BOLT OTA lacking any MoCA functionality, you only need the OTA signal at the DVR, so the OTA line (prev connected to the diplexer "VHF/UHF" port) will be directly connected to the BOLT OTA. And the "cable" coax carrying the MoCA signal (prev connected to the diplexer "SAT" port) would be directly connected to the new MoCA adapter added at the BOLT OTA location, with the adapter linked via Ethernet patch cable to the BOLT OTA, to supply the BOLT OTA with its network connection.

The diplexer is no longer needed and can be stored away.

edit: p.s. With the OTA antenna coax line directly connected to the BOLT OTA, free of any MoCA signals, the "PoE" MoCA filter can be removed from the *antenna* coax line. (There would still need to be a MoCA filter in place to block MoCA signals from exiting the premise via the cable provider feed, installed at the cable signal point-of-entry.)


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## CIntiPW (May 12, 2021)

krkaufman said:


> Easy enough. The diplexer is currently being used in order to get both OTA and MoCA to the MoCA-capable BOLT. With the BOLT OTA lacking any MoCA functionality, you only need the OTA signal at the DVR, so the OTA line (prev connected to the diplexer "VHF/UHF" port) will be directly connected to the BOLT OTA. And the "cable" coax carrying the MoCA signal (prev connected to the diplexer "SAT" port) would be directly connected to the new MoCA adapter added at the BOLT OTA location, with the adapter linked via Ethernet patch cable to the BOLT OTA, to supply the BOLT OTA with its network connection.
> 
> The diplexer is no longer needed and can be stored away.
> 
> edit: p.s. With the OTA antenna coax line directly connected to the BOLT OTA, free of any MoCA signals, the "PoE" MoCA filter can be removed from the *antenna* coax line. (There would still need to be a MoCA filter in place to block MoCA signals from exiting the premise via the cable provider feed, installed at the cable signal point-of-entry.)


I'm afraid! It all makes sense!!! Thanks again for your expertise and willingness to help. I'll get another bridge and let you know how it turns out.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

CIntiPW said:


> I'm afraid! It all makes sense!!!


chuckle


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## jg167 (Apr 2, 2004)

krkaufman said:


> >As suggested above, replace this splitter with a Holland DPD2 diplexer, using the following connections, and you'll be good-to-go:
> 
> Antenna coax to POE to ANT (VHF/UHF) port of diplexer
> Cable/MoCa coax to SAT port of diplexer
> ...


I do not understand the recommendation of using a splitter that separates out by frequency (the diplexer with UHF/VHF on one leg and SAT on the other) but both combined on the common, as opposed to using just an ordinary high frequency splitter. A diplexer would be needed if the device on the SAT or UHF/VHF legs could only deal with those frequencies but those channels would seem to me to clearly not overlap as they are merged to the Bolt. The splitter has to be compatible with higher frequencies but I do not understand the need for the segregation.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jg167 said:


> I do not understand the recommendation of using a splitter that separates out by frequency (the diplexer with UHF/VHF on one leg and SAT on the other) but both combined on the common, as opposed to using just an ordinary high frequency splitter. A diplexer would be needed if the device on the SAT or UHF/VHF legs could only deal with those frequencies but those channels would seem to me to clearly not overlap as they are merged to the Bolt. The splitter has to be compatible with higher frequencies but I do not understand the need for the segregation.


The explanation is included in the prior posts, either directly or linked.

Or just work through the most recent poster's configuration, where the diplexer was recommended (and resolved their setup issue):


CIntiPW said:


> My configuration is:
> * Antenna coax to POE to 1 "out" leg of splitter
> * Cable/MoCa coax to 1 "out" leg of splitter
> * "In" leg of splitter to Bolt.



What frequencies would be incoming via the "antenna" splitter port?

What frequencies would be incoming via the "Cable/MoCA" splitter port?

edit: p.s. I might have phrased the following differently...


kpeters59 said:


> A Diplexer is commonly used to separate the lower frequency TV Channel signals and the higher frequency MoCA Signal.


A diplexer is most often used in these hybrid TiVo setups to filter out the cable TV/Broadband signals sharing a coax run with MoCA, allowing the OTA and MoCA signals* to pass to/from the DVR.

(* If you look closely at the diplexer specs, you'll see that some CATV/BB signals between 950-1002 MHz will also pass through the diplexer's "SAT" port, but these frequencies are well above the OTA range and so don't pose a problem for the DVR's tuning function. They're simply ignored.)


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## jg167 (Apr 2, 2004)

Oh I see what I missed. its OTA on one leg and Cable TV (and moca) on the other, its the cable TV part I I was not thinking of.
The channels are still there of course, not subscribing just removes your authorization not the actual signals on the cable.
An alternative would be to just connect the cable directly to their modem for internet. That is my plan, and then I can use cable
running around the house that will be dark expect for MOCA since it won't be T-ed to any cable TV.
I also do not see anyway they are going to be able to keep OTA and subscribe to cable TV for baseball season. But they could
just keep the OTA setup if they are happy with that, and get the MLB streaming service.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jg167 said:


> Oh I see what I missed. its OTA on one leg and Cable TV (and moca) on the other ... The channels are still there of course, not subscribing just removes your authorization not the actual signals on the cable.


Right, plus cable Internet signals, as well. The filter within the diplexer's "SAT" port blocks those signals (at least below 950 MHz) from passing through to the DVR and conflicting with the OTA antenna signals.



jg167 said:


> An alternative would be to just connect the cable directly to their modem for internet.


Sure, there are a lot of alternatives, including the setup the poster will be shifting to when they replace the BOLT with a BOLT OTA. For that matter, rather than using the diplexer, they could have jumped directly to using a standalone MoCA adapter at the DVR to supply it with its wired network connection, leaving the MoCA-capable BOLT's MoCA functionality unused (facilitated by using a MoCA adapter with an RF pass-through port, rather than using a splitter to link both the BOLT and MoCA adapter).



jg167 said:


> That is my plan, and then I can use cable
> running around the house that will be dark expect for MOCA since it won't be T-ed to any cable TV.


Sure, that'll work, as well, so long as the bridging MoCA adapter can link to the "dark" (i.e. otherwise completely unused) coax. An added benefit to such an isolated setup is that it'll be future-proofed for DOCSIS 3.1, 4.0 and on.



jg167 said:


> I also do not see anyway they are going to be able to keep OTA and subscribe to cable TV for baseball season. But they could
> just keep the OTA setup if they are happy with that, and get the MLB streaming service.


Was this a requirement? They're shifting to a BOLT OTA, so seemingly are aware that sourcing from cable TV isn't going to be possible once they've shifted their subscription to the BOLT OTA (unless they keep the cable+OTA BOLT around for seasonal cable duty, shifting a monthly sub between DVRs).


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## CIntiPW (May 12, 2021)

CIntiPW said:


> I'm afraid! It all makes sense!!! Thanks again for your expertise and willingness to help. I'll get another bridge and let you know how it turns out.


Folks: Once again - many, many thanks. Adding the bridge to the Bolt OTA was the final piece. If I could put a price on my happiness it would be much, much more than the $84+tax per year subscription I'll be saving for the next few years! Thanks again - I appreciate your expertise (and patience!).


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