# Will TiVo (Premiere) units *ever* get Amazon Instant Prime?



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

We have access to the original "Instant Video" but not the new unlimited "Prime Instant Video." So I'm just wondering, is this something we've heard from TiVo/Amazon that is in the works? Or have they just said "not currently available?"

I realize that even if they say they're working on it, and/or that it's coming soon, that this could mean 10 months or more of waiting and that there are no guarantees. With TiVo, heck, it might not come out till 2013 (if at all) and it might only be for the newest box. (And that would be long after anyone cares much about Amazon Prime Instant video... and there would be some newer service that everyone's enjoying, that's not compatible with TiVo.   )

I'm just wondering if either of these companies have made any statement at all? Or is the odd screenshot above is all we have to go with on the subject?

TiVo's sad asterisk stands out like a sore thumb. It's the ONLY box that doesn't support this service. For shame. I thought the Premiere was the "one box."


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

Tivo doesn't actually have access to "Instant Video."


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Okay so we have "Unbox?" I thought they got rid of that title. What would you call the Amazon feature we have currently?

Regardless, on my Premiere when I go to the Video On Demand menu, the first option listed is "Amazon Instant Video." No, it's not instant and it's not the new Prime Instant that I mention in the OP, but it's something, And they've labelled it "Amazon Instant Video" on our existing menus. So what's your point?


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

I think they call it "Amazon VOD" on the TiVo (that's what they call it on my TiVo HD), but it's still basically just "Amazon Instant Video".

All the videos you can get on other devices that have Amazon Instant Video are what's also offered on the TiVo's "VOD".


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

Fofer,
I agree with everything you said. I was in a very short and not very clear way pointing out that it isn't just a flipped switch like the other devices got to do. When Tivo can handle the streaming Amazon service, then they will get the Prime service.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Jeeters said:


> I think they call it "Amazon VOD" on the TiVo (that's what they call it on my TiVo HD), but it's still basically just "Amazon Instant Video".
> 
> All the videos you can get on other devices that have Amazon Instant Video are what's also offered on the TiVo's "VOD".


Well on the Premiere it's called "Amazon Instant Video" but it is a different service with different terms, content and cost from what's offered to other devices with Amazon's new Prime Instant Video.



> Prime instant videos provide unlimited, commercial-free, instant streaming of thousands of movies and TV shows at no additional cost with a $79 annual Amazon Prime membership, which also includes fast shipping along with other benefits. Prime instant videos can be watched instantly on a Mac, PC and nearly 200 models of Internet-connected TVs, Blu-ray players and set-top-boxes that are compatible with Amazon Instant Video. All of the movies and TV shows are commercial-free and some are available in HD.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

socrplyr said:


> Fofer,
> I agree with everything you said. I was in a very short and not very clear way pointing out that it isn't just a flipped switch like the other devices got to do. When Tivo can handle the streaming Amazon service, then they will get the Prime service.


Gotcha. Well, since TiVo can (kinda, albeit poorly) stream video via their Netflix app, you'd think they could at least do the same with Amazon's Prime Instant Video.

According to their marketing materials, Amazon Prime Instant works with "nearly 200 models of Internet-connected TVs, Blu-ray players and set-top-boxes that are compatible with Amazon Instant Video" ... and yet TiVo is the SOLE EXCEPTION. That's kinda sad, considering what this box is _supposed_ to be and do.

Again, the asterisk in that screenshot above... it stands out like a sore thumb. TiVo is the ONLY one that is excluded. That's quite a feat. It shows that TiVo's software design and implementation isn't as flexible as all the others, which were able to embrace Amazon's new feature without much delay.

What happens when the next new online video service comes along? Why is TiVo now always the latest to the party? This is not a limber company. It consistently feels like an also-ran.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

Fofer said:


> It shows that TiVo's software design and implementation isn't as flexible as all the others, which were able to embrace Amazon's new feature without much delay.


Note: I am not defending Tivo here.
I look at this differently. None of those boxes ever supported Unbox... Really Tivo supports a different service. Now do I think they should of updated and supported the new service. Definitely.


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## gtrogue (Jun 18, 2001)

Now that Hulu has blown the look and feel, Tivo should just go ahead and implement the HTML5 version of Netflix through a custom browser.

Some type of browser support could also make it possible to support the new (and old) Amazon video service. Plus lots of other services like EpixHD, HBOGo, etc.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Agreed. It's not like TiVo's UI has any consistency at all. They gave up on the HDUI, it seems.

So long as we have access to all the content on one device, on one input of the TV, I'd be content. I'll deal with the disappointing UI. But being locked out from the new services' content just because TiVo can't get their act together is frustrating.

I'd be fine with access via a custom HTML5 browser. Something tells me TiVo isn't limber or flexible enough for that though, either.


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## rdodolak (Dec 18, 2008)

gtrogue said:


> Now that Hulu has blown the look and feel, Tivo should just go ahead and implement the HTML5 version of Netflix through a custom browser.
> 
> Some type of browser support could also make it possible to support the new (and old) Amazon video service. Plus lots of other services like EpixHD, HBOGo, etc.


Agree.

Another annoyance is that a lot of the Amazon Instant Videos are only available in Letterboxed format on the TiVo where as on all other devices the movies are available in true widescreen format. If I wanted my movies to be letterboxed and pillarboxed at the same time I wouldn't have purchased a widescreen television. I'm all for OAR and even though TiVo's implementation retains the OAR on a widescreen television you still have black bars showing on the top/bottom and left/right sides with the movie in a little window in the middle of the screen (even for 1.78:1 content). There's no reason to even show a widscreen movie with bars on the left and right sides of the image (pillarboxed). It just goes to show that those "TiVo" encodes have the black bars on the top and box of the image hard coded into an image with a 4:3 aspect ratio vs. a true widescreen presentation. How long ago did they stopped selling 4:3 aspect ratio televisions, oh that's right it was years ago.

Not to mention TiVo still doesn't support 5.1+ or subtitles.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

When I looked at the service, content was weak. While I am a prime member, I could not find anything that was not already on netflix.

TiVo is not in the drivers seat for driving change when implementing new streaming services. I expect less of their look and feel in these new offerings as 1) its more expensive for TiVo to make these changes (and we eventually have to pay for them) and 2) it is more expensive for the service provider. 

I'm hoping integrated search is not so expensive that it is eventually completed. Do any of these other devices have that? I'm guessing no.

Netflix only has some of the look and feel because TiVo was an early service provider for their streaming product...


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## TheWGP (Oct 26, 2007)

It's not so much about whether Tivo is in the "driver's seat" or not - it's that they aren't even in the vehicle! 

They're being literally towed along behind the bus containing almost every other current consumer electronics product, hanging on by the emergency chain after the hitch has broken off!

I'd love to see Prime Instant Video, but in all honesty I don't think Tivo will ever implement it. Their policy has been pretty consistent - one release of a software client like Netflix, Tivo, Youtube, etc - and then never touch it again. So, from Tivo's point of view, the "Amazon logo on the box" is checked off and they have no reason to revisit it at all. You have to remember - Tivo DOES NOT care for customers anymore - Tivo cares about logos and partnerships and litigation - things that will drive MSO deals and provide press releases.

On the bright side, if nothing else, you can at least say they're consistent in their policy of near-zero support for ANY Internet video provider.


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## gtrogue (Jun 18, 2001)

rdodolak said:


> Agree.
> 
> Another annoyance is that a lot of the Amazon Instant Videos are only available in Letterboxed format on the TiVo where as on all other devices the movies are available in true widescreen format. If I wanted my movies to be letterboxed and pillarboxed at the same time I wouldn't have purchased a widescreen television. I'm all for OAR and even though TiVo's implementation retains the OAR on a widescreen television you still have black bars showing on the top/bottom and left/right sides with the movie in a little window in the middle of the screen (even for 1.78:1 content). There's no reason to even show a widscreen movie with bars on the left and right sides of the image (pillarboxed). It just goes to show that those "TiVo" encodes have the black bars on the top and box of the image hard coded into an image with a 4:3 aspect ratio vs. a true widescreen presentation. How long ago did they stopped selling 4:3 aspect ratio televisions, oh that's right it was years ago.
> 
> Not to mention TiVo still doesn't support 5.1+ or subtitles.


I've never noticed the pillar boxed/black matte phenomena you have. Anytime I've ever used Amazon VOD on my Tivo the files have always been 1080p/720p and displayed correctly on my display. I've never watched any SD stuff so it might be different.

Is it possible there is a setting for your display that would correct this issue?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Jeeters said:


> ...
> 
> All the videos you can get on other devices that have Amazon Instant Video are what's also offered on the TiVo's "VOD".


for free with Prime like you can on the other devices?

can you please give some pointers how to navigate the Tivo menus so i can get my free prime videos on my TiVo S3.


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## rdodolak (Dec 18, 2008)

gtrogue said:


> I've never noticed the pillar boxed/black matte phenomena you have. Anytime I've ever used Amazon VOD on my Tivo the files have always been 1080p/720p and displayed correctly on my display. I've never watched any SD stuff so it might be different.
> 
> Is it possible there is a setting for your display that would correct this issue?


My display is setup correctly and I don't experience that issue with Amazon Instant Video on other platforms.

100% of the encodes aren't like that but when I've experienced it I usually double check Amazon's site. Usually when this has happened, Amazon shows the Letterbox image under the Tivo section where as Amazon shows a widescreen image for the other platforms.

I can't speak to this particular movie but as an example you can see the type of image icons I'm referring to under the Video Format Details section of this page:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004VGKXIS/

EDIT: As another example, the HD version of Warehouse 13 is in widescreen for TiVo

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002GJO6FS/

but the SD version is not according to Amazon (but the other platforms are)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002GJVL60/

I think this issue has more to do with SD movies and TV series but it's an annoyance since not all videos are available in HD from Amazon.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

jrtroo said:


> When I looked at the service, content was weak. While I am a prime member, I could not find anything that was not already on netflix.


Perhaps. But unlimited FREE access is granted to Amazon Prime customers. And because I have chosen to stick with TiVo as my primary set-top box, I can't even use it.


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## sabixx (Oct 20, 2010)

I don't believe Amazon instant videos are on any device except the roku,so this one really isn't on Tivo.


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## gtrogue (Jun 18, 2001)

sabixx said:


> I don't believe Amazon instant videos are on any device except the roku,so this one really isn't on Tivo.


I think Samsung connected TV's do or will play them soon.
You can watch them on Boxee Box through the web browser. EpixHD also works through the browser. HBOGo has an "app" on the Boxee Box but all it does is launch the browser full screen and go to the HBOGo website.
XfinityTV also plays through the Boxee browser but Hulu doesn't even though the XfinityTV website is using embedded Hulu videos.


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## rdodolak (Dec 18, 2008)

sabixx said:


> I don't believe Amazon instant videos are on any device except the roku,so this one really isn't on Tivo.


You can watch them on Sony Bravia TVs.


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## sabixx (Oct 20, 2010)

gtrogue said:


> I think Samsung connected TV's do or will play them soon.
> You can watch them on Boxee Box through the web browser. EpixHD also works through the browser. HBOGo has an "app" on the Boxee Box but all it does is launch the browser full screen and go to the HBOGo website.
> XfinityTV also plays through the Boxee browser but Hulu doesn't even though the XfinityTV website is using embedded Hulu videos.


you just made me want a boxee box...lol.

Boxee has a deal with Hulu to bring hulu plus,and since no other box is allowed to access regular Hulu,thats probably why its blocked.


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## gtrogue (Jun 18, 2001)

sabixx said:


> you just made me want a boxee box...lol.
> 
> Boxee has a deal with Hulu to bring hulu plus,and since no other box is allowed to access regular Hulu,thats probably why its blocked.


If you have a lot of local content the Boxee Box is pretty great. I mostly use it for playing back my ripped DVD and Blu-ray iso's and mkv files stored on my NAS's. The online stuff is gravy.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

sabixx said:


> I don't believe Amazon instant videos are on any device except the roku,so this one really isn't on Tivo.


Besides the others listed above- Google TV


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## gtrogue (Jun 18, 2001)

MichaelK said:


> Besides the others listed above- Google TV


I'm pretty sure all other devices besides Tivo support Amazon Instant Video.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Hence the asterisk in the image I posted above. Here gang, take a look again:










TiVo is the only device, of all the ones listed, that has the asterisk.

It's the phrase "not currently available" that has me scratching my head. Does that mean it won't ever be? Or is something in the works, with Prime instant videos becoming available to TiVo Premiere users, some day in the future?

And why does it have to be _TiVo_ that gets this unfortunate distinction?


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

sabixx said:


> I don't believe Amazon instant videos are on any device except the roku,so this one really isn't on Tivo.


Works on my older Panasonic plasma. Just watched an older Top Gear episode via my free Prime Instant Video benefit on it just to see how well it worked. Seemed to work fine (and we've never had any issues with NetFlix either).

Scott


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## sabixx (Oct 20, 2010)

yeah,looks like im completely wrong. just another thing I can properly blame on Tivo 

and yeah, the wording in that picture definitely imply that something is coming, it might just be a bad choice of words tho.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

Fofer said:


> It's the phrase "not currently available" that has me scratching my head. Does that mean it won't ever be? Or is something in the works, with Prime instant videos becoming available to TiVo Premiere users, some day in the future?


Per MegaZone TiVo is working on adding the capability. My guess is we will see it within the next 3 months.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Fofer said:


> Gotcha. Well, since TiVo can (kinda, albeit poorly) stream video via their Netflix app, you'd think they could at least do the same with Amazon's Prime Instant Video.
> 
> .............


Streaming from the Netflix application on TiVo is excellent. Plus the TiVo supports Native resolution output. I wish all netflix enabled devices worked as well as it does on the TiVo. Now what is lacking from the TiVo Netflix app is features. But for just streaming the items in your queue, the netflix app on the TiVo is superb.


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## ecoblue (Jan 2, 2009)

++

I really hope that TiVo is working on supporting Amazon Prime Instant Video. The service doesn't have a ton of content now, but it is clear that Amazon wants to be a contender and will be adding more.

Netflix's actual video streaming functionality and quality on my two TiVo Premiere's (and my mom's TiVo HD) is superior, in my opinion, to my Wii (slow startup time, no HD) AND my PS3 (slower startup time, no native resolution support). For me, Netflix's lack of native resolution support on the PS3 makes it a hassle to use for all except HD content. Since I watch a mix, I prefer the TiVo.

I manage my Netflix queue on my iPhone or computer, but I still want TiVo to update their Netflix client. I don't care too much if they make a new native client retaining the TiVo look and feel, or an HTML5 client with the Netflix 'standard' interface--I just want it updated so that the TiVo maintains feature parity with other Netflix devices. I think that having updated software is an important part of the premium image they are trying to project.


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## rdodolak (Dec 18, 2008)

The other issue I have with TiVo's implementation of Amazon Instant Video is that I can't access previously purchased (not purchased through TiVo) Amazon Instant Videos. The TiVo Amazon app doesn't list your Amazon Video Library. Also, if I do a manual search for the already purchased Instant Videos the TiVo app doesn't recognize that they've been purchased. The TiVo is more than willing to have me repurchase them but that's not going to happen.

Am I missing something here?


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

rdodolak said:


> The other issue I have with TiVo's implementation of Amazon Instant Video is that I can't access previously purchased (not purchased through TiVo) Amazon Instant Videos. The TiVo Amazon app doesn't list your Amazon Video Library. Also, if I do a manual search for the already purchased Instant Videos the TiVo app doesn't recognize that they've been purchased. The TiVo is more than willing to have me repurchase them but that's not going to happen.
> 
> Am I missing something here?


You aren't completely missing something. However, if you have purchased it and it is in your library, then you can download it to your Tivo by going to your Library on Amazon.com. There you can send it to the Tivo. It takes a few minutes to get going but it does work.


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## rdodolak (Dec 18, 2008)

socrplyr said:


> You aren't completely missing something. However, if you have purchased it and it is in your library, then you can download it to your Tivo by going to your Library on Amazon.com. There you can send it to the Tivo. It takes a few minutes to get going but it does work.


Ok figured out how to do that on Amazon ... what a PITA. I guess I'll stick to my other devices for streaming. Although downloading the content to the TiVo has some advantages I wish the TiVo could stream Amazon content like it does with Netflix and now Hulu. I guess it's wishful thinking that we might get the capability to view the library directly from the TiVo instead of using a computer to initate a transfer from Amazon to the TiVo.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

rdodolak said:


> Ok figured out how to do that on Amazon ... what a PITA. I guess I'll stick to my other devices for streaming. Although downloading the content to the TiVo has some advantages I wish the TiVo could stream Amazon content like it does with Netflix and now Hulu. I guess it's wishful thinking that we might get the capability to view the library directly from the TiVo instead of using a computer to initate a transfer from Amazon to the TiVo.


It can't stream but at least we can initiate a download and start watching right away.


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## jonja (Feb 23, 2007)

ecoblue said:


> Netflix's actual video streaming functionality and quality on my two TiVo Premiere's (and my mom's TiVo HD) is superior, in my opinion, to my Wii (slow startup time, no HD) AND my PS3 (slower startup time, no native resolution support). For me, Netflix's lack of native resolution support on the PS3 makes it a hassle to use for all except HD content. Since I watch a mix, I prefer the TiVo.


Despite having the worst Netflix UI of all of the devices I have used (the new PS3 UI is really nice!) I thought I was alone in feeling the quality of SD streaming is best on my TiVo, better than on my full 1080p PS3 (the "1080p" of my TiVo premiere being a big fat joke limited at 24fps). The quality of Netflix streaming is great and I will continue to use it despite being horrifically dated.


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## rdodolak (Dec 18, 2008)

aaronwt said:


> It can't stream but at least we can initiate a download and start watching right away.


Is this due to a hardware or software limitation. If it's the latter then it's possible we might see a change. If I'm correct it appears the Hulu+ app is streaming content.


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## jonja (Feb 23, 2007)

rdodolak said:


> Is this due to a hardware or software limitation. If it's the latter then it's possible we might see a change. If I'm correct it appears the Hulu+ app is streaming content.


Respectfully, I disagree with the original author who suggested the TiVo can't stream when in fact it can and does a great job with Netflix and now with the new but utterly useless (for me) Hulu plus app...and YouTube, too.

The problem no doubt rests with Tivo's overly aggressive development schedule, where they release "fully baked" UIs and other advanced features which have terrible unforeseen consequences like causing the last financial crisis (you didn't really think it was the banks, did you?) and placing America on the brink of a massive financial default. Fortunately, wiser heads at TiVo have speedily yanked these poorly implemented solutions right from under our noses, leaving only global pain and suffering and the awful sinking feeling in the stomachs of TiVo premiere owners that TiVo is incapable of finishing their UIs and new features. It is very unfortunate that we perceive TiVo as doing nothing or doing innovation at the speed of tree syrup when in fact these execs have repeatedly saved society from catastrophe again and again.

In short, TiVo would stream amazon instant video if they could do it safely. I recommend being patient and putting money in a compound interest account so that you can afford to buy yet a another lifetime unit when this feature finally makes it to the series 6.

You heard it here first.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

jonja said:


> Despite having the worst Netflix UI of all of the devices I have used (the new PS3 UI is really nice!) I thought I was alone in feeling the quality of SD streaming is best on my TiVo, better than on my full 1080p PS3 (the "1080p" of my TiVo premiere being a big fat joke limited at 24fps). The quality of Netflix streaming is great and I will continue to use it despite being horrifically dated.


What content is above 1080P24? I know there are home video cameras that have it but not commercial content.

Even if the TiVo could output at 1080P60 and scale the content to that resolution I would not use the TiVo to do it. My external scalers are for that. And depending on the TV, even that scaling is better than the TiVo


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

The problem is TiVo was one of Amazon's first partners and the original implementation downloaded the content and then allowed TiVos to play it while downloading it. AFAIK, no other partners use this method and they all use streaming now. The reason TiVo doesn't support the Prime video service is because it is streaming only. TiVo really needs to update it's Amazon integration to support streaming. It will benefit users without Prime too as they can start watching a rental immediately after purchase.


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## jonja (Feb 23, 2007)

aaronwt said:


> What content is above 1080P24? I know there are home video cameras that have it but not commercial content.
> 
> Even if the TiVo could output at 1080P60 and scale the content to that resolution I would not use the TiVo to do it. My external scalers are for that. And depending on the TV, even that scaling is better than the TiVo


On my PS3, I use this exotic new technology called 'Blu-Ray'. (I believe Vudu's HDX format is also 1080p). The content is full 1080p and plays back on my 60hz set with no problem in 1080p. While a lot of BD content is 24fps (movies) the PS3 allows you to view it in 1080p on sets incapable of natively supporting 24fps. I have a full a 1080p signal all of the time when on my PS3. Rather than tossing out all of that information, BD (like DVD before it) compensates for the fps. Some people complain they see judder; must be using crappy sets...I see NO judder going from 24fps to 30fps.

TiVo however made different choices. By limiting playback to 24fps for 1080p content, TiVo forces progressive content to be displayed as interlaced (severe loss of resolution) and then the 1080p signal has be reconstructed by deinterlacing it by the tv itself, a process that does not restore all of the frames discarded. On a LCD set like mine, all interlaced content must be converted to p, but native p is always superior to what the set identifies as i.

BD rips can be copied to the TiVo using pytivo, but despite having full 1080p content, if your set can't display 24fps content, you are severely punished by TiVo by the huge down convert to 1080i. And deinterlaced 1080i (which is what i had on my series 3 already) does not look as good as true 1080p. 1080i arguably isn't a huge improvement over 720p although I can attest that 1080p looks fantastic. Support for 1080p on my new Premiere might as well not even be there, since unlike my PS3 it won't even attempt to display anything at 1080p if you have a 60 hz set. It is no better than what I had before.


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## elwaylite (Apr 23, 2006)

I actually prefer the file downloads because of my HSI service, and I hope if streaming does come out on the TiVo, they still offer downloads. Vudu screwed many of us when they pushed away from Boxes to streaming, and now I cannot get HDX with my provider, when before I just downloaded the whole file in HDX to a BX100. These services need to remember that many of us dont have great ISP options for streaming.

I think the 1080p/24 files look very good.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Blu-ray Disc will be 1080P24 or 1080i. Not 1080P60.
I've been using Blu-ray Discs since June 2006.
The PS3 is not the best quality especially when it does any scaling. My DVDO DUO video processor/scaler does a much beter job.

VUDU is also 1080P24 not 1080P60. I've been using VUDU since January 2008.

For all this content either the device, scaler, or TV is applying 3:2 pulldwon to achieve 1080P60 output.
Or 5:5 pull down for a 120Hz TV etc

I have zero problems playing 1080P24 content from my TIVos. They output 1080P24 like any other device I have,( whether the PS3, a BD player, media player etc.) and then either my DVDO DUO or my TV applies 3:2 pulldown for 1080P60 which is the norm.

.


jonja said:


> On my PS3, I use this exotic new technology called 'Blu-Ray'. (I believe Vudu's HDX format is also 1080p). The content is full 1080p and plays back on my 60hz set with no problem in 1080p. While a lot of BD content is 24fps (movies) the PS3 allows you to view it in 1080p on sets incapable of natively supporting 24fps. I have a full a 1080p signal all of the time when on my PS3. Rather than tossing out all of that information, BD (like DVD before it) compensates for the fps. Some people complain they see judder; must be using crappy sets...I see NO judder going from 24fps to 30fps.
> 
> TiVo however made different choices. By limiting playback to 24fps for 1080p content, TiVo forces progressive content to be displayed as interlaced (severe loss of resolution) and then the 1080p signal has be reconstructed by deinterlacing it by the tv itself, a process that does not restore all of the frames discarded. On a LCD set like mine, all interlaced content must be converted to p, but native p is always superior to what the set identifies as i.
> 
> BD rips can be copied to the TiVo using pytivo, but despite having full 1080p content, if your set can't display 24fps content, you are severely punished by TiVo by the huge down convert to 1080i. And deinterlaced 1080i (which is what i had on my series 3 already) does not look as good as true 1080p. 1080i arguably isn't a huge improvement over 720p although I can attest that 1080p looks fantastic. Support for 1080p on my new Premiere might as well not even be there, since unlike my PS3 it won't even attempt to display anything at 1080p if you have a 60 hz set. It is no better than what I had before.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

I'm also a Vudu user. They are the only service I know of except maybe Apple TV that offers previews. Great feature in my opinion when your looking for a good movie. I also like the way they've incorporated Rotton Tomatoe ratings into their UI. Would love to see TiVo add Vudu and also add some sort of community rating information to their search UI.


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## elwaylite (Apr 23, 2006)

Id love it if TiVo added Vudu with the ability to download the HDX file again, would be very very nice.


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## jonja (Feb 23, 2007)

aaronwt said:


> Blu-ray Disc will be 1080P24 or 1080i. Not 1080P60.
> I've been using Blu-ray Discs since June 2006.
> The PS3 is not the best quality especially when it does any scaling. My DVDO DUO video processor/scaler does a much beter job.
> 
> ...


I can do 1080p on a PS3 with no problem. No bs distinctions about whether it is 24fps, 30fps or 60fps or some other technobabble that no one should have to worry about. It just works and looks fantastic. And PS3 doesn't have qualify the content has to be 1080p24...it Just Works.

Now let's take my beloved tivo; on the exact same set, it can only do 1080i on a Premiere --- same as my series 3. I do not get a 1080p signal on the series 4...ever. It is not a limitation of my Sony Bravia, which displays 1080p with the correct device. I honestly am kind of lost what you think your point is, if you even have one---when the bottomline is that with my expensive new Series 4 upgrade I get no better resolution than I did on my older series 3 and a worse resolution than my much older PS3. Color me unimpressed with this "feature".


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

jonja said:


> I can do 1080p on a PS3 with no problem. No bs distinctions about whether it is 24fps, 30fps or 60fps or some other technobabble that no one should have to worry about. It just works and looks fantastic. And PS3 doesn't have qualify the content has to be 1080p24...it Just Works.
> 
> Now let's take my beloved tivo; on the exact same set, it can only do 1080i on a Premiere --- same as my series 3. I do not get a 1080p signal on the series 4...ever. It is not a limitation of my Sony Bravia, which displays 1080p with the correct device. I honestly am kind of lost what you think your point is, if you even have one---when the bottomline is that with my expensive new Series 4 upgrade I get no better resolution than I did on my older series 3 and a worse resolution than my much older PS3. Color me unimpressed with this "feature".


I can't help you there. I get 1080P24 from my TiVos, just like I do from my PS3, BD players, and media players.
If your TV does not accept 1080P24 than the issue is with the Tv for not accepting all 1080P framerates.
My PS3 outputs 1080P24 for any movie content. As does my media players, BD players, VUDU players, etc.
For me the TiVo is no different in this respect. It outputs 1080P24 just like hundreds of other devices.

I would not want my TiVos to output 1080P60 since the 3:2 pulldown would be inferior to the other devices I use that apply 3:2 pulldown to 1080P24 to get the 1080P60 picture.


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## elwaylite (Apr 23, 2006)

ALL Amazon HD video downloads to the TiVo are 1080p/24 at 5mbps. If you are not seeing that, it's not the tivo's fault. Even TV episodes I buy like Justified and Bones are 1080p/24 and look great.


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## jonja (Feb 23, 2007)

elwaylite said:


> ALL Amazon HD video downloads to the TiVo are 1080p/24 at 5mbps. If you are not seeing that, it's not the tivo's fault. Even TV episodes I buy like Justified and Bones are 1080p/24 and look great.


You buy free tv shows?


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## elwaylite (Apr 23, 2006)

Where exactly is Justified "free" in a legal offering?


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## jonja (Feb 23, 2007)

aaronwt said:


> I can't help you there. I get 1080P24 from my TiVos, just like I do from my PS3, BD players, and media players.
> If your TV does not accept 1080P24 than the issue is with the Tv for not accepting all 1080P framerates.
> My PS3 outputs 1080P24 for any movie content. As does my media players, BD players, VUDU players, etc.
> For me the TiVo is no different in this respect. It outputs 1080P24 just like hundreds of other devices.
> ...


What you consider to be a feature I consider a deficiency. I get full and gorgeous 1080p on my PS3 but not on my TiVo premiere. The PS3 doesn't qualify its content as limited to 24fps and I get to view everything...whereas the TiVo Premiere does qualify it as 24fps, and sure enough, I have yet to see a 1080p signal.

if you have poor PQ with 3:2 pulldown, get a better set. I see no judder. I do however see a marked difference between seeing 1080p content down sampled to 1080i and then forcing the 1080i to be deinterlaced to "1080p" by the set using just half the frames it started with. hey, whatever.


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## jonja (Feb 23, 2007)

elwaylite said:


> Where exactly is Justified "free" in a legal offering?


You must have been a philosophy major.


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## elwaylite (Apr 23, 2006)

You defintiely were not a tech major, because you obviously don't understand video products

1) It's not the Tivo's fault the file is 1080p/24, the studios offer 1080p/24 to Amazon, Directv Cinema, Dish VOD, etc... it is what it is, if your device cannot accept 1080p/24, you shoulda bought a better set.

2) No judder with 3:2, now thats funny, because 3:2 on a 24hz signal causes judder, fact. A set that can properly display 24hz, without using pulldown (96hz mode on Samsung and Panasonic plasmas) offers a more fluid motion, fact.

Yes, maybe your PS3 is a magical wonder because it takes Native 1080p/24 sources and converts them to 60hz, but it's an inferior method, once again because you have a display that requires native 24hz content to be molested into 60hz, which adds judder regardless of what you say.

Again, the studios offer up the 1080p/24 file, it's not like TiVo chose this, or even Amazon or Vudu. The limitation also comes in the Broadcom/NXP chips (TiVo, Most HDDVR's out there), which only support 1080p/24, where as a more advanced blu-ray player can offer more resolution selection.

Finally, you argument against the TiVo for all this is ludicrous. We could just as easily say buy a better display... You do not understand the chain of events for these files, or the tech, therefore you are blaming the wrong product.


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## jonja (Feb 23, 2007)

elwaylite said:


> You defintiely were not a tech major, because you obviously don't understand video.
> 
> 1) It's not the Tivo's fault the file is 1080p/24, the studios offer 1080p/24 to Amazon, Directv Cinema, Dish VOD, etc... it is what it is, if your device cannot accept 1080p/24, you shoulda bought a better set.
> 
> ...


I am not technical? you are so damn funny you don't know.

As to video philia, no I have a life. If you could tell that my Sony tv has judder, I worry for you. I just told you it is gorgeous and you are telling me I am wrong? really? you have cameras in my home? Judder is very subjective and it impacts motion only not PQ per se. I don't perceive the motion artifact whereas you -- as a freakish videophile of some sort (I find audiophiles equally freakish, so not picking on you) -- claim you can. I can however see the result of tossing half the frames away to avoid 'judder'. True 1080p != deinterlaced 1080i.

I know when I am getting 1080p and when I don't. I have yet to see it on my tivo. Maybe i need to pay additional money from Amazon for the shows i already get from basic cable to see to if my TiVo ever switches to 1080p? I think I'll pass.

I much prefer the simplicity and overall better PQ of my PS3 to my TiVo. I'm sure it must suck compared to the Boppo PQ 3000, because the rest of us are just living in video squalor with our 1080p signals and just can't appreciate the horrific PQ of our affordable sets, with motion jerk, and intersectal nutterbutteriness, and pixel quintilliousness and 4:11 yank pull clogging our retinas like optical plaque. The rest of us are oblivious in our ignorance. THANK GOD we have technical geniuses on the Internet who can explain what we can't even perceive on our own, giants in their own minds shedding no light but finding meaning in fine points of techno nonsense that if only the rest of us could understand would make the world a better place.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)




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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

elwaylite said:


> ALL Amazon HD video downloads to the TiVo are 1080p/24 at 5mbps. If you are not seeing that, it's not the tivo's fault. Even TV episodes I buy like Justified and Bones are 1080p/24 and look great.


All the Amzon VOD content is not 1080P24. I've watched a bunch of TV shows from Amazon VOD since having the Premiere. Some of them are 1080i and some are 1080P24. But at least they do have the better quality 1080P24 when available. Which is better than some other VOD sources.

Currently I'm watching the Doctor Who season from Amazon VOD in HD. It is 1080i.
When FiOS gets BBCA in HD I won't need to buy it from Amazon. But I'm not about to watch it in SD.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

This just in today:










...and still, no TiVo Premiere love.


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## ncbill (Sep 1, 2007)

I gave up waiting on Tivo and bought a Panasonic Blu-ray w/ Viera cast (Prime is one of the apps)

Tiny little player (dwarfed by a Premiere)

Under $200 for the BDT-210 (has built-in wireless)


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Too expensive just to get Amazon VOD. I already have collected eight BD players over the last five years and I don't even use them any more since I stopped watching from the actual Blu-ray Discs. Now I only watch the movies from BD ISOs located on my servers.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

sbiller said:


> Per MegaZone TiVo is working on adding the capability. My guess is we will see it within the next 3 months.


lol. Why on earth would you guess 3 months? When has Tivo EVER done anything in three months?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Those are TiVo months.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

yes, one "TiVo month" is the equivalent of 7.5 regular months


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

ncbill said:


> I gave up waiting on Tivo and bought a Panasonic Blu-ray w/ Viera cast (Prime is one of the apps)
> 
> Tiny little player (dwarfed by a Premiere)
> 
> Under $200 for the BDT-210 (has built-in wireless)


I also gave up and got a tiny Sony Mediaplayer. Prime is one of it's many apps.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

The AppleTV v2 has Netflix and recently added MLB and NBA apps. Maybe it'll get Amazon Instant Prime streaming one day. That'd be cool.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Fofer said:


> The AppleTV v2 has Netflix and recently added MLB and NBA apps. Maybe it'll get Amazon Instant Prime streaming one day. That'd be cool.


Isn't the ATV only 720P? Is Amazon streaming also only 720P or do they have 1080i and 1080P24 content like the Amzon VOD has?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> Isn't the ATV only 720P? Is Amazon streaming also only 720P or do they have 1080i and 1080P24 content like the Amzon VOD has?


It only outputs 720p. I'm pretty sure it could handle Amazon's 1080p source material. However, that will never happen unless Apple opens up the ATV to developers since Amazon competes directly with Apple in the VOD business.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

And yet, the ATV already has Netflix (which also competes directly with Apple in the VOD business.) Amazon's Prime Instant Streaming and Netflix are on the same tier of content/library availability. 

It also has MLB and NBA apps so clearly they're open to working with 3rd parties. 

Heck, I'd like to see other iOS apps on there, like ABC Player and HBO GO... a guy can dream, can't he?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Fofer said:


> And yet, the ATV already has Netflix (which also competes directly with Apple in the VOD business.) Amazon's Prime Instant Streaming and Netflix are on the same tier of content/library availability.


Yeah, but Amazon VOD is a direct competitor to iTunes tv/movie rentals/purchases. And Amazon competes with Apple is a lot of other areas. There's no way Apple could really sell the box without Netflix and expect many purchases. We will see, but I highly doubt you will see any Amazon support until the appstore comes to ATV.


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## reubidium (Sep 11, 2013)

OK, it's 2013 and the only access I have to amazon video is my choice of "top ____ movies"

Moreover, it's 2013 and why can't I search for "Shogun Assassin" and my TiVo know how to purchase and deliver it to me?

All I've been left to settle with is a pathetic "wishlist search". 

As a software developer myself, I find this inexcusable and saddening.


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## elwaylite (Apr 23, 2006)

I get the complaints about no streaming, but to be frank, the downloadable files are of higher PQ, you can buy season passes to tv shows that auto download whenever the new episode is put on line. Its low key. Take Covert Affairs, it aired last night, we put on Amazon after midnight, and was already downloaded to my TiVo when I got up this AM.


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## SugarBowl (Jan 5, 2007)

Picture on the first post needs updated.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I actually do think you are going to see an Amazon Live streaming app as part of the new Roamio HTML5 app platform.

But, I do not think you will ever see it on the Premier line. Or for that matter, a significantly improved Netflix implementation. 

I am pretty sure the reason Amazon and other Over the Top streaming providers have not been willing to place their brand on TiVo is because of the performance. You already complain about Netflix being slow and laggy, most of these content providers are going to have a platform performance standard that the Premier line simply cannot provide.

The Roamio line is different and can meet minimum performance standards. It also has an HTML5 app platform (Opera) that makes implementations less platform specific.

So - Yes, it is Tivo's "fault" you do not have Amazon Prime Streaming. The Premier does not meet minumum performance standards. And for that reason - No, you will never see it on the Premier line.

IMVHO


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## elwaylite (Apr 23, 2006)

I hope they do add a streaming option, but I also hope they leave the file downloads in place as well.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

SugarBowl said:


> Picture on the first post needs updated.


Ah, there's that asterisk again, just for TiVo. TiVo must be so proud


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

Tivo will never, ever, add amazon streaming to the premiere line.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

wmhjr said:


> Tivo will never, ever, add amazon streaming to the premiere line.


Agreed.


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

reubidium said:


> OK, it's 2013 and the only access I have to amazon video is my choice of "top ____ movies"
> 
> Moreover, it's 2013 and why can't I search for "Shogun Assassin" and my TiVo know how to purchase and deliver it to me?
> 
> ...


On my Premiere, this works for me. I can search, it says the program is on Amazon or Netflix or whatever. I click to watch, it goes to the appropriate app and asks me to either watch it (Netflix) or buy it asking for my Buying PIN on Amazon.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

philhu said:


> On my Premiere, this works for me. I can search, it says the program is on Amazon or Netflix or whatever. I click to watch, it goes to the appropriate app and asks me to either watch it (Netflix) or buy it asking for my Buying PIN on Amazon.


That sometimes works. However, I've also experienced where you find it via search, however you try to select it and "rent" it but the app fails. This happened with a bunch of titles recently. They include Oblivion, Olympus has Fallen, and some others. That repeatedly failed for weeks. More recently it has been corrected, but the interface between Tivo and Amazon is less than stellar.


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## mdm08033 (Apr 23, 2007)

I just sent this email to [email protected],

Greetings from Philadelphia,

Two years ago I purchased a TiVo Premiere DVR and keyboard remote from using my Amazon Prime membership. I was looking forward to watching Amazon Prime videos on my TiVo but I misread read the specifications on the TiVo Premiere. Amazon Instant Video not prime is built into TiVo Premiere.

Why hasn't Amazon devised an Amazon Prime streaming application for the TiVo DVRs?


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Nice note. I would have added (and asked why) it's still not available on even the latest-and-greated TiVo Roamios.


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## mdm08033 (Apr 23, 2007)

Everybody here should email Jeff.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

mdm08033 said:


> Everybody here should email Jeff.


He'll tell us to be patient, the Amazon streaming box will be here soon...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Just what we need another service specific device taking up an HDMI port on the TV.


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## kherr (Aug 1, 2006)

... Roku3 for me ..... Netflix, Amazon Prime, and many others ....:up::up:

No need to wait for an app that will never come ...


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## telamon (Mar 29, 2008)

I gave up also and just use Amazon Instant from my Sony Blu-ray player.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

kherr said:


> ... Roku3 for me ..... Netflix, Amazon Prime, and many others ....:up::up:
> 
> No need to wait for an app that will never come ...


Exactly. I have a Roku2. They're great. Although at this point, I can barely watch half of what I record on TiVo, and rarely get past TiVo into anything streaming/download.


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## mdm08033 (Apr 23, 2007)

Hey gues what I just received the ususal answer from Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos and his exective Customer Relations rep. It's funny how they never actually answered my question, "Why hasn't Amazon devised an Amazon Prime streaming application for the TiVo DVRs?" Oh well, I tried.

Fyi his email is [email protected]

Hello Michael,

I'm Sarah Crowner of Amazon.com's Executive Customer Relations. Jeff Bezos received your e-mail and asked me to respond on his behalf.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on Prime Instant Videos not being available on your TiVo. You can purchase and download, but not stream, Amazon Instant Video titles to your TiVo. Because streaming is not supported at this time, you can't stream Prime Instant Video titles on your TiVo.

Michael, feedback like yours is very important in helping us continue to improve the experience of using our digital video service. I've forwarded your message to our Amazon Instant Video development team for consideration as we make future improvements.

We hope to see you again soon!

Regards,

Sarah Crowner
Executive Customer Relations
Amazon.com


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## Rohardi (Oct 19, 2013)

this would be nice!


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I have to pop in from time to time just to repeat....

Amazon will not allow it's brand to be damaged with streaming software on a laggy device. Prime streaming will NEVER come on the S4 TiVo models.

That is all...


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

By the looks of it, I don't think Amazon Prime Streaming will come to the TiVo Roamio, either.

I use my TiVo for DVR functionality *only.* Everything else is much, much, *much* better served by a ~$60 Roku.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Fofer said:


> By the looks of it, I don't think Amazon Prime Streaming will come to the TiVo Roamio, either.
> 
> I use my TiVo for DVR functionality *only.* Everything else is much, much, *much* better served by a ~$60 Roku.


Netflix on the Roamio is much better than using a ROku. My Roamio and TiVo Minis are my main Netflix streaming devices even though I have three ROkus plus Netflix on a bunch of other devices. For Amazon streaming though, yes my main devices are the ROkus that I use for Amazon streaming.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I personally think we WILL see Amazon Prime streaing on the Roamio line. Is it a huge priority for Amazon at the moment? Maybe not - but I do suspect it is coming.

Is a Roku a better streaming device? Maybe, I don't have one.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

aaronwt said:


> Netflix on the Roamio is much better than using a ROku. My Roamio and TiVo Minis are my main Netflix streaming devices even though I have three ROkus plus Netflix on a bunch of other devices.


What makes it better on the Roamio than a Roku? What is different about the menu/UI?

What makes it better on then Roamio than an AppleTV, for that matter? I have both.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Fofer said:


> What makes it better on the Roamio than a Roku? What is different about the menu/UI?
> 
> What makes it better on then Roamio than an AppleTV, for that matter? I have both.


Better?

I think what makes it better is that the results are included in a TiVo search.

Search for a program and the TiVo will tell me if and when it is scheduled on TV or if I can get it from one of my over the top providers. I don't have to go look in Netflix or look in Amazon, etc...

Once a show is playing, who really cares what device is serving it.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Gotcha. Makes sense. I do like Roku's new "universal search" feature. Of course, it doesn't cover broadcast TV, only the top streaming sources.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

The Roamio also allows native resolution output of netflix 1080P24 content. Plus the Roamio also has easy access to the netflix bitrate info.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Seriously people, reach over, get the remote for your AVR/ video processor, switch to your Roku, and stream all you want!


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## bbrown9 (Mar 12, 2011)

Bigg said:


> Seriously people, reach over, get the remote for your AVR/ video processor, switch to your Roku, and stream all you want!


I don't have a Roku and don't want to buy one. Stop assuming that everyone has (or wants to have) all of the same hardware you do.

Since there is an Amazon app on the TiVo, TiVo supports streaming for a whole host of other services and Amazon supports streaming to a whole host of other devices, I don't think it's out of bounds to expect the same Amazon Prime support on our very expensive "One Box" TiVos.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

bbrown9 said:


> I don't have a Roku and don't want to buy one. Stop assuming that everyone has (or wants to have) all of the same hardware you do.
> 
> Since there is an Amazon app on the TiVo, TiVo supports streaming for a whole host of other services and Amazon supports streaming to a whole host of other devices, I don't think it's out of bounds to expect the same Amazon Prime support on our very expensive "One Box" TiVos.


If you don't have the right tools for the job, then don't expect the job to get done. TiVos are cable DVRs. They do their job very well. They haven't done streaming well since day 1, so there's no reason to expect that they will do it well in the foreseeable future. Rokus are $99, and are the best streaming boxes out there. Problem solved.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

Bigg said:


> If you don't have the right tools for the job, then don't expect the job to get done. TiVos are cable DVRs. They do their job very well. They haven't done streaming well since day 1, so there's no reason to expect that they will do it well in the foreseeable future. Rokus are $99, and are the best streaming boxes out there. Problem solved.


Sorry, I agree that your advice is coming across poorly. I'm very happy with TiVo streaming now, but would like Amazon Prime. I have no issues with Netflix, Pandora, and MLB.TV now, and see no reason I should have to follow your advice and pay $99 just in order to get Amazon Prime.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

CrispyCritter said:


> Sorry, I agree that your advice is coming across poorly. I'm very happy with TiVo streaming now, but would like Amazon Prime. I have no issues with Netflix, Pandora, and MLB.TV now, and see no reason I should have to follow your advice and pay $99 just in order to get Amazon Prime.


Roku has a LOT more than just Amazon Prime. It has a LOT of streaming content. I don't use mine often, but it's still great to have. The interface for streaming is excellent too, and the remote is just as well suited to that use as TiVo's is to being a powerful cable DVR.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

But even still, it's overkill for folks who only want access to Amazon Prime Instant.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

Bigg said:


> Roku has a LOT more than just Amazon Prime. It has a LOT of streaming content. I don't use mine often, but it's still great to have. The interface for streaming is excellent too, and the remote is just as well suited to that use as TiVo's is to being a powerful cable DVR.


That is your opinion for what YOU want out of your entertainment setup. What I object to is your insistence that Roku is the answer for me. I have no objection to you bringing it up as an option for folks, but what you value and I value are different. *I* have no interest in other streaming content and only a mild interest in Amazon Prime - $99 and a more complicated setup mean Roku is not the answer for me.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

I've got Rokus, and TiVos, and various other devices capable of accessing Prime. I use Prime on Roku all the time. That doesn't mean I don't also want it available on TiVo. As pointed out already, there are no strong technical reasons why it shouldn't be possible. Among other reasons, the unified TiVo search feature would make it an attractive addition to the live ota/cable, OnDemand, Netflix, Hulu and YouTube viewing options.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

gonzotek said:


> I've got Rokus, and TiVos, and various other devices capable of accessing Prime. I use Prime on Roku all the time. That doesn't mean I don't also want it available on TiVo. As pointed out already, there are no strong technical reasons why it shouldn't be possible. Among other reasons, the unified TiVo search feature would make it an attractive addition to the live ota/cable, OnDemand, Netflix, Hulu and YouTube viewing options.


And the horrible, slow interface for streaming video? Right. I'd rather just go over to the Roku.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Check out the upcoming update:






Notice, there is no "Amazon" under Video Providers, at 0:25.

Prediction: Sick of explaining over and over again to customers that TiVo is the one red-headed stepchild of Amazon Video-ready devices that is NOT compatible with the Instant Prime library, TiVo finally just removes Amazon from the list of participating Video Providers, period.

Would you be surprised? I know I wouldn't be.


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## elwaylite (Apr 23, 2006)

Man I hope not. I download multiple tv shows from amazon EVERY week.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Fofer said:


> Notice, there is no "Amazon" under Video Providers, at 0:25.


But Amazon also does not currently show up in the "My Shows" list either.

So I predict the current Amazon (non-Prime) will continue for the short term at least. No new Prime UI at this time.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

The Amazon Instant Video download for playback later works well, no reason that will be discontinued because Amazon Instant Video streaming isn't being added, at least none that make any sense to me. I don't know if Amazon Instant Video streaming or Amazon Prime Instant Video will ever come to current TiVo models so I can't even speculate on that now.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

It's kind of sad that this is actually a 3 year old thread.

Emails went out to SDUI users back in April about an impending Amazon HDUI update. Something is going to happen soonish. If there was any Amazon involvement at all in the project, I can't imagine it not including Prime Instant. But, Tivo's record for common sense is not pristine, so we'll see.

If not, I would implore people to just consider a cheap Roku, AppleTV, FireTV, or whatever. Life's too short to live at Tivo's glacial pace.


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## elwaylite (Apr 23, 2006)

Chris Gerhard said:


> The Amazon Instant Video download for playback later works well, no reason that will be discontinued because Amazon Instant Video streaming isn't being added, at least none that make any sense to me. I don't know if Amazon Instant Video streaming or Amazon Prime Instant Video will ever come to current TiVo models so I can't even speculate on that now.


I agree. I know folks want streaming, but I have small boxes to do that. The PQ of a 1080p/24 file download from Amazon is better than any streaming Ive seen. It is also much better for those of us who have slow speeds.


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## mcf57 (Oct 19, 2012)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> .....I would implore people to just consider a cheap Roku, AppleTV, FireTV, or whatever. Life's too short to live at Tivo's glacial pace.


Yea, I agree as well. I decided I was tired of waiting & wouldn't "hope" any longer on this moving forward with TiVo hardware so instead I just got a Roku 3. They are on sale at Best Buy for $85. Great little box. Snappy interface and TONS of channels for my needs including Amazon Prime, HBOGO, Showtime, Aereo (even if they just lost a court case) and Slingbox.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

mcf57 said:


> Yea, I agree as well. I decided I was tired of waiting & wouldn't "hope" any longer on this moving forward with TiVo hardware so instead I just got a Roku 3. They are on sale at Best Buy for $85. Great little box. Snappy interface and TONS of channels for my needs including Amazon Prime, HBOGO, Showtime, Aereo (even if they just lost a court case) and Slingbox.


Just a word of warning for Comcast users, HBOGo on Roku doesn't work with Comcast. I tried and found out the hard way. Aereo won't work anywhere very soon, if it is working now.

Select Roku and see if your cable company supports HBOGo. Easy to see Comcast Xfinity isn't possible.

http://www.hbogo.com/activate/


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> If not, I would implore people to just consider a cheap Roku, AppleTV, FireTV, or whatever. Life's too short to live at Tivo's glacial pace.


Exactly. Pretty much anyone who wants this functionality already has at least one or three other devices that can already do Amazon, and Amazon is pretty much useless without Prime anyways... VUDU or iTunes do movies better than Amazon, and everything else worth getting through Amazon is Prime...


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Yeah, I have Rokus and AppleTVs and Chromecasts. That doesn't stop me from lamenting every time I have to switch inputs just to be able to stream content. Especially when TiVo likes to tout itself as the "one box." If only they had handled this right, it might have been. Now it just feels like lost potential. If any box is getting unplugged next, any input freed up, it's the TiVo.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Fofer said:


> Yeah, I have Rokus and AppleTVs and Chromecasts. That doesn't stop me from lamenting every time I have to switch inputs just to be able to stream content. Especially when TiVo likes to tout itself as the "one box." If only they had handled this right, it might have been. Now it just feels like lost potential. If any box is getting unplugged next, any input freed up, it's the TiVo.


Switch inputs. Serious first world problem there. It's pretty bad that Americans have gotten so lazy that switching an input is a big deal. I have a video processor with 5 HDMIs, and one of those has a 5-port switch behind it. There is basically no way to run out of HDMI ports, as you can just get a 5- or 8-port switch.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Yes, I know. I have an HDMI switch and a universal remote control. And yet the UI isn't consistent across these boxes. Elegant discovery of content across platforms on the TV GUI remains an elusive prize. I've always hoped TiVo could claim it, but they've failed in this regard.

You do realize you're in a discussion forum on the Internet dedicated to a niche digital video recorder, for time-shifting video content, yeah? 

Consider this idle discussion. Maybe even cathartic venting.

No one's forcing you to read this thread, right? And that you can click a button to ignore it, yes? Or even just scroll right on by?

First world problem indeed.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

We use TiVo as a DVR, all internet streaming services are accessed by other devices so no Amazon Prime on TiVo doesn't matter to us. Since no one box can handle everything, I had to cobble together three boxes and make a workable solution for the female in the house if I wanted her to think cutting the cord is acceptable. 

No switching of HDMI inputs makes things a lot easier for her, TiVo and a network PC are all accessed through Google TV on HDMI 1. She powers on and powers off the TV and AVR with the Google TV controller, accesses most streaming services we use directly with Google TV and accesses Hulu, Lifetime Network, and the cooking channels through the Google TV PlayOn app using the PlayOn server running on the network PC. TiVo is controlled by the Google TV controller in the same HDMI port as everything else she uses and she doesn't know she is using three boxes rather than one, everything is accessed from the Google TV home screen.

We have been doing this for three years now, I expect in three years, we will be using the same boxes, doing things exactly the same way. The other HDMI inputs, including use of an HDMI switch, PS3, Roku, Chromecast, and an Oppo player are there but she doesn't use any of them and if I had set up things so switching HDMI inputs and UIs was required, this wouldn't be working nearly as well as it does.

I do have to remember to switch the AVR back to the Google TV, HDMI 1 input after I am done using the Oppo player to play an SACD for example but I don't want to hear this isn't working, come fix it, and I have only rarely made that mistake. She doesn't know what Chromecast and Roku are. Both work well and are easy to use but sit unused. 

We use a full sized keyboard, the Logitech K700, searches for something to watch are much easier that way. I know using a smart phone or little controller to find what to watch with the streaming services is preferred by most but not by me. I can type a lot faster than I can swipe and tap with my thumbs and I also don't like to talk to my TV, although I thought it was a cute novelty when I tried it.


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## Austin Bike (Feb 9, 2003)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> It's kind of sad that this is actually a 3 year old thread.
> 
> Emails went out to SDUI users back in April about an impending Amazon HDUI update. Something is going to happen soonish. If there was any Amazon involvement at all in the project, I can't imagine it not including Prime Instant. But, Tivo's record for common sense is not pristine, so we'll see.
> 
> If not, I would implore people to just consider a cheap Roku, AppleTV, FireTV, or whatever. Life's too short to live at Tivo's glacial pace.


This is the point.

If it has been asked for from Tivo for 3 years and they have not delivered it (or even promised it) then there is most likely a business reason why this is not happening. I don't know if that reason is on Tivo's side or Amazon's side, but somewhere there is probably a functional business reason why this is not happening.


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## squiddohio (Dec 21, 2001)

If all you want to add to your system is Amazon Prime, you would be better off getting a BluRay player for the same price. The only reason I can stream Amazon Prime is because I noticed that it was one of the services on the main menu of my not terribly new Sony BluRay player. It streams Netflix as well, and many others, but I think the TiVo interface is nicer.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Fofer said:


> Yes, I know. I have an HDMI switch and a universal remote control. And yet the UI isn't consistent across these boxes. Elegant discovery of content across platforms on the TV GUI remains an elusive prize. I've always hoped TiVo could claim it, but they've failed in this regard.


I'm not sure why this is a goal in the first place. Use the best tool for the job. TiVos and Blu-ray players (in general) suck at streaming. So use a streaming device like Roku for that. Roku has support for way more streaming services, but Apple TV has support for the iPad, so use Apple TV for that. Etc, etc.



> You do realize you're in a discussion forum on the Internet dedicated to a niche digital video recorder, for time-shifting video content, yeah?


And your point?



Chris Gerhard said:


> We have been doing this for three years now, I expect in three years, we will be using the same boxes, doing things exactly the same way. The other HDMI inputs, including use of an HDMI switch, PS3, Roku, Chromecast, and an Oppo player are there but she doesn't use any of them and if I had set up things so switching HDMI inputs and UIs was required, this wouldn't be working nearly as well as it does.


What is the big hurdle about switching HDMI inputs? I get it that we have a ton of info in our brain and remembering what the heck is on HDMI 3 is another piece of information, so just document it, either through a schematic, or a list, and then whoever wants to use it can simply refer to the documentation. I do this, and it works great (until my video processor broke, and now I'm going to have to re-do a bunch of stuff, but that's besides the point).

I took the names off of the XBOX 360's, but other than that, attached below is what my schematic looked like. It's a little different now with a Wii U and an optical backfeed from the TV for audio, and I haven't updated it in a while, but it's super easy to figure out what input(s) things need to be switched to for any given source. Once I put the system back together, I'm going to do an update on the schematic. I print it out at 11x17 paper for ease of use.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

We're looking at this from totally different angles. My setup works fine. I have access to all the content I could ever want. The disparate on-screen UI across various devices just strikes me as largely disappointing, that's all. Using a TV these days isn't as easy and as elegant as it should be. TiVo was in a position to be the one box to solve all that. And they've missed the mark by such a wide margin, that I find it sad. And time has moved on. My own TV watching patterns have changed. I stream via AppleTV, Roku and Chromecast more than I watch time-shifted TV on my TiVo.

For the record, I'm not seriously holding into hope anymore for Amazon to be able to address this in any way. I've gotten used to TiVo's pattern of introducing something, only to then learn that it has a major show-stopping caveat. That's just the way it is with this company. 

And, for better or for worse, this is a forum to discuss that. Dismissing any complaint as a "first world problem" misses out on the fact that nearly all the problems here could be described in that same way, and that this forum was set up specifically FOR discussion of those issues. If you don't like such discussion, why bother reading?


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Fofer said:


> We're looking at this from totally different angles. My setup works fine. I have access to all the content I could ever want. The disparate on-screen UI across various devices just strikes me as largely disappointing, that's all. Using a TV these days isn't as easy and as elegant as it should be. TiVo was in a position to be the one box to solve all that. And they've missed the mark by such a wide margin, that I find it sad. And time has moved on. My own TV watching patterns have changed. I stream via AppleTV, Roku and Chromecast more than I watch time-shifted TV on my TiVo.
> 
> For the record, I'm not seriously holding into hope anymore for Amazon to be able to address this in any way. I've gotten used to TiVo's pattern of introducing something, only to then learn that it has a major show-stopping caveat. That's just the way it is with this company.
> 
> And, for better or for worse, this is a forum to discuss that. Dismissing any complaint as a "first world problem" misses out on the fact that nearly all the problems here could be described in that same way, and that this forum was set up specifically FOR discussion of those issues. If you don't like such discussion, why bother reading?


But the basis of that thought is that we should want a fully converged device. I'm not sure that we should want that- we should want separate devices each with their own strengths...


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

Bigg said:


> What is the big hurdle about switching HDMI inputs? I get it that we have a ton of info in our brain and remembering what the heck is on HDMI 3 is another piece of information, so just document it, either through a schematic, or a list, and then whoever wants to use it can simply refer to the documentation. I do this, and it works great (until my video processor broke, and now I'm going to have to re-do a bunch of stuff, but that's besides the point).
> 
> I took the names off of the XBOX 360's, but other than that, attached below is what my schematic looked like. It's a little different now with a Wii U and an optical backfeed from the TV for audio, and I haven't updated it in a while, but it's super easy to figure out what input(s) things need to be switched to for any given source. Once I put the system back together, I'm going to do an update on the schematic. I print it out at 11x17 paper for ease of use.


I don't really mind switching HDMI inputs and using devices with a different interface but the female head of household doesn't want to do it. I still have to do it since I play music from discs and do other things she doesn't do.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Bigg said:


> But the basis of that thought is that we should want a fully converged device. I'm not sure that we should want that- we should want separate devices each with their own strengths...


Most people seem satisfied with whatever set-top box their provider will rent them and TiVo's value add sales pitch since the introduction of the Premiere has been that they provide a converged device of linear TV and Internet content. And I would indeed prefer a single device that could handle it, but TiVo's performance and gaps on the Internet side is a problem for me... especially since I watch much less linear TV these days. My TiVo hardware is a sunk cost but if I were in the market now, I'd take the cheapest of whatever Verizon or Comcast offer and continue to cobble together my own solution of various products.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Bigg said:


> But the basis of that thought is that we should want a fully converged device. I'm not sure that we should want that- we should want separate devices each with their own strengths...


Whereas I can't believe anyone wouldn't want one box that did everything well.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

I'd happily "settle" for one box (and one unified UI) that did everything just so-so. TiVo was (still is, sorta) in a unique position to at least try. Except they only have a few streaming apps, and those streaming apps suck.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Chris Gerhard said:


> I don't really mind switching HDMI inputs and using devices with a different interface but the female head of household doesn't want to do it. I still have to do it since I play music from discs and do other things she doesn't do.


Her loss. It's not like it's hard to change inputs if you have all the remotes right next to you. I have somewhere around 10 remotes, all within easy reach. I love having so much control over my system within an arm's reach!



davezatz said:


> Most people seem satisfied with whatever set-top box their provider will rent them and TiVo's value add sales pitch since the introduction of the Premiere has been that they provide a converged device of linear TV and Internet content. And I would indeed prefer a single device that could handle it, but TiVo's performance and gaps on the Internet side is a problem for me... especially since I watch much less linear TV these days. My TiVo hardware is a sunk cost but if I were in the market now, I'd take the cheapest of whatever Verizon or Comcast offer and continue to cobble together my own solution of various products.


TiVo's pitch sucks. Their pitch should be that they offer a better DVR. Because they do. As a streaming device, TiVo is a steaming pile of sh*t.

TiVo is a lot cheaper than what Verizon or Comcast offer for DVRs, so you're still better off with TiVo and then adding to it from there...



Robin said:


> Whereas I can't believe anyone wouldn't want one box that did everything well.


I don't. I want devices that do one or two things really, really well and don't try to do everything.



Fofer said:


> I'd happily "settle" for one box (and one unified UI) that did everything just so-so. TiVo was (still is, sorta) in a unique position to at least try. Except they only have a few streaming apps, and those streaming apps suck.


You're not going to get AirPlay, all the channels Roku has, and a full Windows 7 PC into one box. It's not going to happen. I love the fact that I have several different devices, so that each one does what it does really well.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Bigg said:


> Her loss. It's not like it's hard to change inputs if you have all the remotes right next to you. I have somewhere around 10 remotes, all within easy reach. I love having so much control over my system within an arm's reach!


You know you can consolidate all those remotes down to just one that does everything you need, right?


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

^^ Indeed.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

gonzotek said:


> You know you can consolidate all those remotes down to just one that does everything you need, right?


But they're not as good as the OEM remote, cost money, have to be programmed, and the programming has to be updated every time I tinker with something... much easier just to update a schematic or pen and ink it if it's a minor change.

Plus, I like feeling like I'm in control of my own little universe with my 10 or so remotes.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, indeed. You prefer having 10 or so remotes? No wonder you're not so keen on the idea of one excellent set-top box that can handle it all.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Fofer said:


> Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, indeed. You prefer having 10 or so remotes? No wonder you're not so keen on the idea of one excellent set-top box that can handle it all.


I want the best experience possible, and if that means have a TV, AVR, video processor, HDMI switcher, TiVo, Roku, Apple TV, Blu-ray player, VCR, HTPC, then that's how I'm going to do it. I didn't count the 6 game consoles in there either...


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Yeah, that doesn't strike me as the "best experience possible." I'm thinking outside the box and imagining something better, more elegant and more integrated than that.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Robin said:


> Whereas I can't believe anyone wouldn't want one box that did everything well.


I know I would but it doesn't exist. It never has and probably never will. There will always be things it doesn't do very well and other devices that do it better. So I will always need multiple boxes.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

Bigg said:


> Her loss. It's not like it's hard to change inputs if you have all the remotes right next to you. I have somewhere around 10 remotes, all within easy reach. I love having so much control over my system within an arm's reach!


She hasn't lost anything except the hassle of dealing with different devices, different remotes, different UIs, and being able to complain to her sweet boyfriend about the complicated mess watching her TV programs has become. She sits down, the HDTV is on HDMI 1, turns on the AVR with the same controller used to handle everything she does with the system and navigates to TiVo, Netflix, Plex or PlayOn. She has other options like YouTube, Flixter (our UV collection), Blu-ray, DVD, and CD but she doesn't use those. If a grandchild wants to watch something on Blu-ray or DVD, I think she knows how to do that, again with the same HDMI 1 input and controller.

I was given an order to make things simpler so I did, about 3 years ago, and I am not changing anything until I have to. She is not the only person in the household set in their ways, who listens to music from discs these days? The things I do that cause me to have to change HDMI inputs are listen to SACD and DVD-A, use the PS3 and watch HD DVD.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

aaronwt said:


> I know I would but it doesn't exist. It never has and probably never will. There will always be things it doesn't do very well and other devices that do it better. So I will always need multiple boxes.


I couldn't imagine living with such pessimistic myopia. Or such absolutes. Can we at least agree that 2 boxes is better than 5?


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Fofer said:


> Yeah, that doesn't strike me as the "best experience possible." I'm thinking outside the box and imagining something better, more elegant and more integrated than that.


It is the best experience, because I have all the functionality of all those devices. Yes, setting it up and tearing it down when I move is a major PITA.



Chris Gerhard said:


> She hasn't lost anything except the hassle of dealing with different devices, different remotes, different UIs, and being able to complain to her sweet boyfriend about the complicated mess watching her TV programs has become. She sits down, the HDTV is on HDMI 1, turns on the AVR with the same controller used to handle everything she does with the system and navigates to TiVo, Netflix, Plex or PlayOn. She has other options like YouTube, Flixter (our UV collection), Blu-ray, DVD, and CD but she doesn't use those. If a grandchild wants to watch something on Blu-ray or DVD, I think she knows how to do that, again with the same HDMI 1 input and controller.
> 
> I was given an order to make things simpler so I did, about 3 years ago, and I am not changing anything until I have to. She is not the only person in the household set in their ways, who listens to music from discs these days? The things I do that cause me to have to change HDMI inputs are listen to SACD and DVD-A, use the PS3 and watch HD DVD.


So then she's losing the ability to use the PS3 or whatever's not available through HDMI 1. So you have a separate SACD/DVD-A and BD player?!?


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Bigg said:


> It is the best experience, because I have all the functionality of all those devices. Yes, setting it up and tearing it down when I move is a major PITA.


The entire experience is more than "functionality." The user interface to browse, search, consider recommendations, set up watch lists, make suggestions for friends, and initiate and pause, FF, RW playback are all part of the experience too.

What we have now is by no means the best technology can do in the living room. Far from it. What we have now is a mess.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

Bigg said:


> So then she's losing the ability to use the PS3 or whatever's not available through HDMI 1. So you have a separate SACD/DVD-A and BD player?!?


I don't think she is going to ever play PS3 games at all but if she does, it will probably be with me or a grandchild that will be able to access it. Yes, I use SACD/DVD-A players in two of three systems in house that predate Blu-ray, 9 and 10 years old. The third system in house does include a player that handles Blu-ray/SACD/DVD-A.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Fofer said:


> The entire experience is more than "functionality." The user interface to browse, search, consider recommendations, set up watch lists, make suggestions for friends, and initiate and pause, FF, RW playback are all part of the experience too.
> 
> What we have now is by no means the best technology can do in the living room. Far from it. What we have now is a mess.


There could definitely be improvements in individual devices and services, but I'm not sure that there's a need to combine everything together. Usually I know where something is when I want to watch it... The Peanut is the best at those, although the services themselves behave kind of bizarrely. The Roku remote is pretty good. My HTPC doesn't have a remote, just a wireless keyboard, the AppleTV remote is useless (I just use AirPlay).



Chris Gerhard said:


> I don't think she is going to ever play PS3 games at all but if she does, it will probably be with me or a grandchild that will be able to access it. Yes, I use SACD/DVD-A players in two of three systems in house that predate Blu-ray, 9 and 10 years old. The third system in house does include a player that handles Blu-ray/SACD/DVD-A.


Oh. Wow. That's some dedication to those almost-dead formats!


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

Bigg said:


> Oh. Wow. That's some dedication to those almost-dead formats!


I probably wouldn't get started with SACD or DVD-A today but I already have a few hundred discs so I play them. Almost dead was true about 8 years ago and is still true today, we still see releases each year and I think that will continue for years. Both are tiny niche formats and represent a format war with no winner declared, only shattered dreams of replacing CD and selling billions. Who knows how much money Sony lost on SACD.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Chris Gerhard said:


> I probably wouldn't get started with SACD or DVD-A today but I already have a few hundred discs so I play them. Almost dead was true about 8 years ago and is still true today, we still see releases each year and I think that will continue for years. Both are tiny niche formats and represent a format war with no winner declared, only shattered dreams of replacing CD and selling billions. Who knows how much money Sony lost on SACD.


Yeah, I don't think it's really a format war at all, considering neither has market penetration that's significant at all. The war now is various streaming services and buy vs. rent.


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## Kingpcgeek (Feb 6, 2012)

I have a Harmony 700 for switching the AVR between Tivo, BluRay, Roku, and Sonos. My wife likes the Harmony and uses the remote for normal TiVo viewing. I prefer the TiVo remote myself.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Well, well, whaddaya know, looks like this thread finally has an answer, and it seems like a good one.

Amazon Instant & Vudu Coming To TiVo


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Fofer said:


> Well, well, whaddaya know, looks like this thread finally has an answer, and it seems like a good one.
> 
> Amazon Instant & Vudu Coming To TiVo


Don't count those chickens just yet,
Several of us already have the Fall Update 20.4.4a, and there is no Amazon Prime or Vudu, yet....


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

CoxInPHX said:


> Don't count those chickens just yet,
> Several of us already have the Fall Update 20.4.4a, and there is no Amazon Prime or Vudu, yet....


Given Margret's release notes regarding another 2014 update targeted for late November and no press release attached to CEDIA yesterday, I'm guessing that's the potential timing.


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## NotNowChief (Mar 29, 2012)

As soon as TiVo has Amazon prime streaming, I can FINALLY sign up for Prime! Now that its on Android, I'm stoked! This is the final piece of the Amazon puzzle I have been waiting for.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

NotNowChief said:


> As soon as TiVo has Amazon prime streaming, I can FINALLY sign up for Prime! Now that its on Android, I'm stoked! This is the final piece of the Amazon puzzle I have been waiting for.


You can sign up for Prime before that, it has lots of other benefits too


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Yes Prime just for streaming never seemed like a good deal to me. Although the Amazon streaming catalog has improved over the last year. But I get prime for the shipping. It saves me money in the long run. The streaming that they offer with it is just gravy.


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## NotNowChief (Mar 29, 2012)

Fofer said:


> You can sign up for Prime before that, it has lots of other benefits too


I know, its great and all, but I just could never see paying the price and not be able to take advantage of it fully. The shipping is wonderful, but it would irk me that I could never even access the shows and movies.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Instant Prime Video is relatively new. I've used Amazon Prime Shipping for many years, and saved lots of money via it, before that add-on perk was introduced.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

NotNowChief said:


> I know, its great and all, but I just could never see paying the price and not be able to take advantage of it fully. The shipping is wonderful, but it would irk me that I could never even access the shows and movies.


You can access from other services than a tivo. WiiU, computer, and others.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

...Roku, iPad, now Android, etc.


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