# Bolt 4k up scaling quality VS using TV up scaling .. What's your experience?



## faulkton (Aug 14, 2015)

well after Ira's AMA I am now again interested in bolt :



Ira Bahr said:


> We do not have a performance claim where we say that the BOLT out upscales Samsung. It may or it may not. The value is in having a unified system. Certainly you can find point and shoot cameras and GPS that might have 1-2 features more than your smartphone but you lose the ease of use and integration. With your smartphone you can ask Siri to access your contacts and find something in Google maps and navigate you there. Much like that, TiVo is not only scaling video or passing it through if that's your preference, but it also integrates with so many other things.


and



Ira Bahr said:


> BOLT will upscale all content to 2160p60 if that video output format ("2160p") is the only one selected. Other formats such as 2160p24 or 2160p30 are only used for source content with a compatible frame rate, and may be enabled by checking the box labeled "2160p passthrough" on the Video Output Formats screen.


Tivo tech support initially told me the bolt did not upscale at all, that it would only pass 4k content, which pretty much made it worthless to me. Now I am curious if it will do a better job up scaling than 4K TVs. I've owned TVs with great up scaling (Samsung) and terrible up scaling (vizio).

Now I am again curious about how well the Bolt upscales. Maybe people who have terrible native up scaling would benefit greatly from a Bolt and for others perhaps it'll be a downgrade. So when you early adopters get your Bolts in hand, if you could post some comparisons between letting the Bolt upscale and letting your TV do it, I think it would be great info to have out there. Just imagine if you could buy a vizio M series and get the same or better up scaling as if you'd paid $5k more and got a Samsung JS9500   

Great thanks for anyone who takes the time to post a comparison and any comments, opinions and discussion are welcome .


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Are there reviews anywhere about the upscaling capability of the Broadcom chip being used? I would hope a $5k TV has at least slightly better scaling than a $300 box.


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## jeffshome (Jan 4, 2002)

I have the Bolt and an LG 4K 65" OLED - I did some comparisons between the Bolt (2160p) and Roamio (1080p) - initial impression is the Bolt at 4K is much better than the Roamio at 1080p. The Bolt at 4K seemed to have soft focus at first but with picture settings on the LG I as able to increase the sharpness and now the picture quality is amazing. With the Roamio at 1080p I was able to see picture artifacts due to the video being 1080p which are gone on the Bolt at 4K. Also on the LG on some programs there is jitter during screen pans with the Roamio - on the Bolt at 4K these pans are much smoother.
Even programs recorded on the Roamio and transferred to the Bolt and played with 4K looked much better.
And the SkipMode is heavenly - combine that with QuickMode which works great and the Bolt is a winner.
My only complaint so far is programs recorded on the Roamio and transferred or streamed on the Bolt do not have SkipMode - I'm hoping after a software update on the Roamio transferred programs on the Bolt will have SkipMode (QuickMode works while steaming) or the Roamio is being replaced with a Bolt.


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## RockinRay (Aug 25, 2004)

jeffshome said:


> I have the Bolt and an LG 4K 65" OLED - I did some comparisons between the Bolt (2160p) and Roamio (1080p) - initial impression is the Bolt at 4K is much better than the Roamio at 1080p. The Bolt at 4K seemed to have soft focus at first but with picture settings on the LG I as able to increase the sharpness and now the picture quality is amazing. With the Roamio at 1080p I was able to see picture artifacts due to the video being 1080p which are gone on the Bolt at 4K. Also on the LG on some programs there is jitter during screen pans with the Roamio - on the Bolt at 4K these pans are much smoother.
> 
> Even programs recorded on the Roamio and transferred to the Bolt and played with 4K looked much better.
> 
> ...


I have the 55 inch 4K version. When I select 2160p the tv screen changes color.

Did you have to make any adjustments in your tv in order for this to work correctly? Right now I have to run 1080p.

I've used the hdmi cable from the Bolt to my Bose Cinamate 130. Maybe I need a better cable from the Bose to the TV?

Not sure. Digging for answers.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

RockinRay said:


> I have the 55 inch 4K version. When I select 2160p the tv screen changes color. Did you have to make any adjustments in your tv in order for this to work correctly? Right now I have to run 1080p. I've used the hdmi cable from the Bolt to my Bose Cinamate 130. Maybe I need a better cable from the Bose to the TV? Not sure. Digging for answers. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Maybe your Blows, I mean Bose can't pass 4K?


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## RockinRay (Aug 25, 2004)

It is supposed to but maybe not. Further testing required. 

I would not use it and would use Sonos but the TV only does PCM from optical port as far as I know. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jeffshome (Jan 4, 2002)

My HDMI switch did not handle 4K - I had to run an HDMI cable from the Bolt directly to the 4K TV to get 2160p to work. 

Other than increasing the sharpness I used the same picture settings as 1080p.


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## kisby (Mar 31, 2002)

I can tell you that the picture on my Vizio M55 C-2 4K TV is much better with the Bolt than the picture I got with my TWC DVR. Can wait to try this on my 120" projector!


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

jeffshome said:


> Other than increasing the sharpness I used the same picture settings as 1080p.


Thanks for the report you posted up thread.

What was the original quality of the program you used for testing. I would assume 1080i?

Also, what was the source and if cable who is your provider?


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## jeffshome (Jan 4, 2002)

I was using 1080i & 720p broadcast (live - football, baseball & golf) programs for the comparison. I have Comcast.

Also 4k Netflix on Bolt looked the same as on as the LG webOS Netflix app - the 4k content looks great both places.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

kisby said:


> I can tell you that the picture on my Vizio M55 C-2 4K TV is much better with the Bolt than the picture I got with my TWC DVR. *Can wait* to try this on my 120" projector!


I assume you mean "can't wait"? Is your projector a 4K model?


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## faulkton (Aug 14, 2015)

jeffshome said:


> I have the Bolt and an LG 4K 65" OLED - I did some comparisons between the Bolt (2160p) and Roamio (1080p) - initial impression is the Bolt at 4K is much better than the Roamio at 1080p. The Bolt at 4K seemed to have soft focus at first but with picture settings on the LG I as able to increase the sharpness and now the picture quality is amazing. With the Roamio at 1080p I was able to see picture artifacts due to the video being 1080p which are gone on the Bolt at 4K. Also on the LG on some programs there is jitter during screen pans with the Roamio - on the Bolt at 4K these pans are much smoother.
> Even programs recorded on the Roamio and transferred to the Bolt and played with 4K looked much better.
> And the SkipMode is heavenly - combine that with QuickMode which works great and the Bolt is a winner.
> My only complaint so far is programs recorded on the Roamio and transferred or streamed on the Bolt do not have SkipMode - I'm hoping after a software update on the Roamio transferred programs on the Bolt will have SkipMode (QuickMode works while steaming) or the Roamio is being replaced with a Bolt.





jeffshome said:


> I was using 1080i & 720p broadcast (live - football, baseball & golf) programs for the comparison. I have Comcast.
> 
> Also 4k Netflix on Bolt looked the same as on as the LG webOS Netflix app - the 4k content looks great both places.


Correct me if i am wrong, and maybe this is what you've done, but i thought if you want the Tivo to pass through without any upscaling of it's own you check off every resolution that the TV is capable of receiving. Then the Tivo just passes unaltered signal through for the TV to upscale to 4K or 1080P.

So if you only have 4K or 1080P boxes checked and are watching 1080i or 720p channels, Tivo is still upscaling to 4K and then your TV is applying additional image processing. So if you have a Roamio with only 1080p box checked, the Roamio is upscaling to 1080P and then your TV is further upscaling it to 4k.

I imagine your OLED is a pretty high end set and should have some nice upscaling/processing and i just want to make sure we're actually comparing the Bolt's upscaling to the TV's.

It might also be helpful for people to post the actual model number of their TV's if they can remember them.

Of course i could be entirely wrong about all this and someone will make me look foolish shortly.

I'm hoping this thread can be a good reference for people and if the Bolt can upscale cable channels better than the current high end models of 4K TV's ... well than that's good info to know and reason enough to pick one up ASAP.

Thanks a ton for your input and anyone who takes the time to post!


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

faulkton said:


> Correct me if i am wrong, and maybe this is what you've done, but i thought if you want the Tivo to pass through without any upscaling of it's own you check off every resolution that the TV is capable of receiving. Then the Tivo just passes unaltered signal through for the TV to upscale to 4K or 1080P.
> 
> So if you only have 4K or 1080P boxes checked and are watching 1080i or 720p channels, Tivo is still upscaling to 4K and then your TV is applying additional image processing. So if you have a Roamio with only 1080p box checked, the Roamio is upscaling to 1080P and then your TV is further upscaling it to 4k.
> 
> ...


I don't think the Roamio will up-scale to 1080p, only pass through a 1080p signal.


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## kisby (Mar 31, 2002)

HarperVision said:


> I assume you mean "can't wait"? Is your projector a 4K model?


You're correct about "can't wait."

No projector is HD but not 4K, still even my HD looks better running through the Bolt than the old TWC DVR. Why is that? You would think that TWC's DVR would give a better picture!


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## andyf (Feb 23, 2000)

lessd said:


> I don't think the Roamio will up-scale to 1080p, only pass through a 1080p signal.


My Roamio Plus upscales to 1080p just fine.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

andyf said:


> My Roamio Plus upscales to 1080p just fine.


So if I uncheck all formats (on my Roamio Plus) except 1080P I will always have 1080P directly into my 1080P HDTV ?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

andyf said:


> My Roamio Plus upscales to 1080p just fine.


The Roamio upscales to 1080P60 and passes through 1080P24.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

lessd said:


> So if I uncheck all formats (on my Roamio Plus) except 1080P I will always have 1080P directly into my 1080P HDTV ?


I think so. I noticed myself that by unchecking all of the other resolutions, the interval between changing channels and the image appearing has decreased, I am guessing because its not switching the resolution.


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## faulkton (Aug 14, 2015)

kisby said:


> You're correct about "can't wait."
> 
> No projector is HD but not 4K, still even my HD looks better running through the Bolt than the old TWC DVR. Why is that? You would think that TWC's DVR would give a better picture!


Maybe your TW DVR wasn't upscaling at all and your TV isn't very good at it.



lessd said:


> So if I uncheck all formats (on my Roamio Plus) except 1080P I will always have 1080P directly into my 1080P HDTV ?


Yes, that's how i understand it. The Tivo will upscale to 1080p and then your TV or AVR will add it's processing picture settings on top of it.

Most cable TV terrible high compressed low res garbage and needs a lot of upscaling and processing. Makes me wonder, since Tivo has been around and upscaling a couple of years now, how does the Bolt compare to TVs?


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

kisby said:


> You're correct about "can't wait." No projector is HD but not 4K, still even my HD looks better running through the Bolt than the old TWC DVR. Why is that? You would think that TWC's DVR would give a better picture!


The new 4K scalar chip in the Bolt is probably better than the cheap one they use in your TWC dvr and most TVs and receivers. It probably has newer better algorithms that it uses.

Why would you think the TWC DVR would be better than an expensive aftermarket third party DVR like the TiVos? That's one of the reasons they exist in the first place.


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## RockinRay (Aug 25, 2004)

HarperVision said:


> Maybe your Blows, I mean Bose can't pass 4K?


I wanted to update this thread. I went direct from the BOLT to my 9500 OLED and all is well now.

Up-converted looks really good on this OLED!


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## RockinRay (Aug 25, 2004)

jeffshome said:


> I have the Bolt and an LG 4K 65" OLED - I did some comparisons between the Bolt (2160p) and Roamio (1080p) - initial impression is the Bolt at 4K is much better than the Roamio at 1080p. The Bolt at 4K seemed to have soft focus at first but with picture settings on the LG I as able to increase the sharpness and now the picture quality is amazing. With the Roamio at 1080p I was able to see picture artifacts due to the video being 1080p which are gone on the Bolt at 4K. Also on the LG on some programs there is jitter during screen pans with the Roamio - on the Bolt at 4K these pans are much smoother.
> Even programs recorded on the Roamio and transferred to the Bolt and played with 4K looked much better.
> And the SkipMode is heavenly - combine that with QuickMode which works great and the Bolt is a winner.
> My only complaint so far is programs recorded on the Roamio and transferred or streamed on the Bolt do not have SkipMode - I'm hoping after a software update on the Roamio transferred programs on the Bolt will have SkipMode (QuickMode works while steaming) or the Roamio is being replaced with a Bolt.


Just curious what you set your sharpness to? I have the 55" LG 4K set... Are you doing edge enhancement, etc???

I'm currently using ISF2 and it looks just incredible!


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