# Deadwood: "Tell Your God to get ready for Blood" OAD: week of 6/11/06 *spoilers*



## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

I have sooooo missed this show. I'm also incredibly p.o.'d at the powers that be that this is to be the final season (with the two movie wrap up) of the show. So much more that can be covered and expanded on and only a few episodes left to get it all done. Life is just not fair.


E.B. received a serious beat down from Bullock... it's a shame that it actually wasn't deserved this time


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

Richardson with that antler was priceless........... :up:


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## ironchef (Dec 27, 2002)

"Gabriel's trumpet will summon you forth from the ass of a pig"

Is this the single best line on tv so far this decade?


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Glad its back and as always I need to watch it again to make sure I caught everything.


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## Mr. Happypants (Jan 30, 2006)

Who needs whiny NJ mobsters? THIS is the reason I keep my HBO subscription!

Too many good lines, although the bartender telling the other guy who is running for Sherriff to just let people "punch him in the face" caught me by surprise & almost made me blow ice cream across the room.

Yeah, saved & I'll watch it again this week.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Mr. Happypants said:


> Too many good lines, although the bartender telling the other guy who is running for Sherriff to just let people "punch him in the face" caught me by surprise & almost made me blow ice cream across the room.


Yeah, that one cracked me up, too.

Obviously.

I've missed this good ol' vulgar Shakespearean Western...


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## GerryGag (Feb 11, 2005)

Mr. Happypants said:


> Too many good lines, although the bartender telling the other guy who is running for Sherriff to just let people "punch him in the face" caught me by surprise & almost made me blow ice cream across the room.


TOO FUNNY! I was eating ice cream too at that exact moment and almost coughed it out at that line! 

(I see it didn't take you long to update your quote Rob!)


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

Like so many here, I was anxiously awaiting this show's return. But after about five minutes, both my husband and I were looking at each other saying "I have no idea what he just said!" I forgot how truly difficult it is to follow the dialog on this show! :down: Looking for folks here to interpret for me (though it's too early in the morning to remember which sections we couldn't follow). 

I did like the ass of the pig line though and got that one.  

Cheryl


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

speedcouch said:


> But after about five minutes, both my husband and I were looking at each other saying "I have no idea what he just said!"


Us too, but at least this week we had a good reason - they weren't speaking English. 

That threw us for a loop, it had almost a surreal atmosphere as we struggled to hear and understand the dialog.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I don't know...unlike the first two seasons, I had no problem getting into the, erm, unique verbal rhythms of the show.

I guess they finally got me trained by the end of last season!


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## GerryGag (Feb 11, 2005)

I also loved Jane's proposed "stories" about Custard.

"He was a c***. The end."


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## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

Man, this one did not disappoint. Great start. 

I loved how Al spelled it out for Hurst. And Hurst listened.


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## cpalma (Sep 29, 2003)

speedcouch said:


> Like so many here, I was anxiously awaiting this show's return. But after about five minutes, both my husband and I were looking at each other saying "I have no idea what he just said!" I forgot how truly difficult it is to follow the dialog on this show! :down: Looking for folks here to interpret for me (though it's too early in the morning to remember which sections we couldn't follow).
> Cheryl


Use Closed Captioning. Works for us.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I didn't have trouble getting back into most of the dialogue, but like most deadwood, every 10-15th line was a little too dense to follow. I didn't understand what Al was talking about with the house until trixie came and discussed it with him, for example. Maybe we weren't supposed to get it until then.

I'm not really following why Al identified himself as a threat to hearst. Also not getting why bullock and bride are suddenly lovey-dovey.


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## stujac (Jan 26, 2002)

I think Al needed Hearst to realize there were ramifications if Hearst tried to move in on his territory/possessions. This will obviously be a major story line as the weeks go by. I'm also not sure about Bullock's new relationship with the "wife."


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

cpalma said:


> Use Closed Captioning. Works for us.


It's not that we can't _hear_ what they are saying; it's the content we have trouble following. No amount of close captioning is ever gonna help that!

Like the deal with the room for Trixie so she and Saul could have a private place to do their business. That finally came through. But most of Al's conversations with Bulluck we had a hard time following (like the one about the guy getting killed in the saloon). I had no idea if Al wanted to keep him out of it because he would have to investigate or what. Obviously their unholy alliance was brought about to thwart Hearst, but I still didn't get a lot of what was specifically discussed.

Cheryl


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> Also not getting why bullock and bride are suddenly lovey-dovey.


If I recall correctly (and I'm not sure I do, because we didn't re-watch season two as we had planned), when Mrs. Bullock was readying to leave after the boy was killed and long after realizing the situation between Seth and Alma Garrett, she (Mrs. Bullock) and Seth had a conversation in which he told her he preferred her to stay. I'm guessing in the interim they've built something of a relationship between themselves.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

But it can't have been all that long since the previous episode. Cy is still in bad shape and the hearst plot line doesn't seem to have advanced much. Maybe a few weeks?


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> But it can't have been all that long since the previous episode. Cy is still in bad shape and the hearst plot line doesn't seem to have advanced much. Maybe a few weeks?


Well we will see how well Hearst likes Al telling him to F* off. The fight I want to see is Dan and Hearst's bodyguard.


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## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

Sure glad it's back. Great Show.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> But it can't have been all that long since the previous episode. Cy is still in bad shape and the hearst plot line doesn't seem to have advanced much. Maybe a few weeks?


Agreed, but I felt like the time-frame was a bit wonky throughout. The election plotline seems about right. On the other hand, the school seems to be well under way, which seems like it would have taken longer. And the guy keeping watch over Joanie's place -- I don't remember him from before, but it seems as though we're to understand that he's been around long enough that he and Joanie (and Jane) have some history between them. But then again, Joanie and Jane's relationship with each other seems to be pretty much right where we left it.

As good as this show is, though, I'll not complain about a few such minor (perceived) discrepancies.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Oh yeah, that guy with the fidgety eyes. Wasn't he near death in the end of the last season? I guess maybe more time has lapsed than I thought, and Cy is simply not recovering all that well? Another reason why TOO much time can't have elapsed is that Mrs. Garret-Ellsworth does not have a protruding belly.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

"Mose" or whatever his name is that watches of Joanies place is the guy that killed his brother to get his part of the sell of their claim to Wolcott or Hearst as that is who he was buying the claims on behalf of. He was drunk in the Bella Union with his money making a ruckus called Sol a cheater since he was losing his back to him made a move and got shot about 8 times in the chest. They then took him to Joanies place to die or heal whatever was going to happen.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

I think it has only been a week. Hearst had just arrived in camp at the end of last season and Alma and Ellworth had just got married. "Mose" was doing better by that time and would have improved more over a week.


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## thedudeabides (Aug 7, 2003)

Mose Manuel was well on the road to recovery in the season 2 finale. 

Deadwood is the best. show. ever.


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## TiVo Bum (Nov 6, 2004)

There was specific reference in the show, I think it was a line by the guy who wanted to take over the livery, that 6 weeks have passed since Hostetler ran off after the boy was hurt by the runaway horse.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

mwhip said:


> "Mose" or whatever his name is that watches of Joanies place is the guy that killed his brother to get his part of the sell of their claim to Wolcott or Hearst as that is who he was buying the claims on behalf of. He was drunk in the Bella Union with his money making a ruckus called Sol a cheater since he was losing his back to him made a move and got shot about 8 times in the chest. They then took him to Joanies place to die or heal whatever was going to happen.


Right you are!!! I totally forgot that entire plotline!!


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

TiVo Bum said:


> There was specific reference in the show, I think it was a line by the guy who wanted to take over the livery, that 6 weeks have passed since Hostetler ran off after the boy was hurt by the runaway horse.


Yes this was the only indication of how much time has passed since the season finale of season two.
You all really should go back and watch that since you seem not to remember characters and their relationships-- it would make it a lot easier for you as this show is hard enough to follow as it is.



> "Mose" or whatever his name is that watches of Joanies place is the guy that killed his brother to get his part of the sell of their claim to Wolcott or Hearst as that is who he was buying the claims on behalf of. He was drunk in the Bella Union with his money making a ruckus called Sol a cheater since he was losing his back to him made a move and got shot about 8 times in the chest. They then took him to Joanies place to die or heal whatever was going to happen.


This is correct exept it was Cy Toliver and his boys that shot Mose, not Sol. And he was shot maybe 4 times, not quite 8. In the season two finale he asks Joanie for work at her place while he is recovering despite the fact that she doesn't have a business there at the time. That would account for him still hanging around after they get the school started in Joanie's place.



> If I recall correctly (and I'm not sure I do, because we didn't re-watch season two as we had planned), when Mrs. Bullock was readying to leave after the boy was killed and long after realizing the situation between Seth and Alma Garrett, she (Mrs. Bullock) and Seth had a conversation in which he told her he preferred her to stay. I'm guessing in the interim they've built something of a relationship between themselves.


Mrs. Bullock asked if Seth thought it would be good for the children if she decided to stay and teach the children of the camp and Seth said it would be a great idea. They exchanged some nice remarks and Seth held her hand while they were in mourning in thier home at the end of the season two finale. She says she's concerned that the children won't like her because she'll be wearing black and will be in mourning for a year (as it was customary?). He assures her that that would not be the case. So they had a kind of understanding and proper affection towards the end of season two but I wouldn't go so far as to say that they are "lovey-dovey".

Some things I loved about this episode:


Richardson with his antler! Classic!
E.B. working for Hearst now is lowered to the same level as "Sh!t Monkey" (Richardson)
It was good to see E.B. get the sh!t kicked out of him but I did feel sorry for him afterwards
Seems Ellsworth is in over his head with the whole marriage thing
Loved the fact that Swearingen stood up against Hearst and told him how it is. Al isn't one to get walked all over.
Especially loved how he threatened to turn Deadwood back into the lawless, dangerous place it once was. He showed his true power there by showing just how easily he could destroy the government to be and lose the backing by Yankton.



> That finally came through. But most of Al's conversations with Bulluck we had a hard time following (like the one about the guy getting killed in the saloon). I had no idea if Al wanted to keep him out of it because he would have to investigate or what.


Al didn't want Seth to go into the meeting with Hearst knowing about the murder because of Seth's anger problem and his tendancy to inquire. He wanted him to just go in and get the proper backing from Hearst without screwing it up-- with good reason too.

Seth's anger gets the best of him when he assumes that Hearst knows of his love affair with Mrs. Garrett-Elsworth when Hearst is only talking about banking affairs as best as I can tell. His mind is not clear going into the meeting because of the possible Hearst backed murder he has on his hands and he makes assumptions, jumps to conclusions. He immediately didn't like the fact that Hearst possibly setup the murder of his own workers but it killed him inside to not talk about it and bring it up in the meeting. In the end he takes all of his frustrations out ond poor E.B. by assuming wrongly that E.B. told Hurst of his afair with the Widow Garrett.

Later we learn that Hearst did setup the murder of the Cornish because of their tendancy to form unions which Hearst entirely abhors.


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

For those who watch the previews for next week:



Spoiler



It looks like Al slits the throat of one of Hearst's croanies. Cy has a deringer waiting for the preacher that gutted him. Hearst's man, The Captain knocks Al out when Hearst says "You WILL bend to my will!". It looks like we are in for some good bloodshed!


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## darthrsg (Jul 25, 2005)

Buncha hoopleheads the lot of ya!
Welcome back to f****ing Deadwood, c*******ers!!


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## TiVo Mel (Jun 21, 2005)

ironchef said:


> "Gabriel's trumpet will summon you forth from the ass of a pig"
> 
> Is this the single best line on tv so far this decade?


No. I am more fond of another Deadwood quote from Season 1. "I'm going to put this rag on your F****G lips".


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

I finished watching the last 4 episodes of Season 2 on DVD yesterday, and finally watched the Season 3 premiere tonight. I guess it's because I've been "living" in Deadwood with the DVDs for a week that I didn't have as much trouble as I normally do comprehending the dialog! 

The new season started off great, but I did not care for the camera angles used. The most jarring incident to me was when Bullock was with Hearst, and the scene jumped from the two of them viewed in profile to the two of them viewed from above at an angle. I'm not sure what the intent was, but it took me out of the moment, so to me that was a bad choice for a cut. There were many other scenes throughout the first half hour where I was very aware of the camera position, and normally I don't notice those things.

Anyone have any thoughts about why Joanie was trying to commit suicide? Woolcott is dead, so she has no one to fear right now. 

Finally, did the man with the British accent renting the rooms remind anyone of the Russian telegraph operator from last season? I didn't check the credits, but they look and sound remarkably similar.


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## purple6816 (May 27, 2003)

darthrsg said:


> Buncha hoopleheads the lot of ya!
> Welcome back to f****ing Deadwood, c*******ers!!


We like the show. But, we wish they did not have to use such harsh language. It is tough to watch without the kids hearing something. I actually think the C*&^(&^% word is used way to much.


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## Mr. Happypants (Jan 30, 2006)

drew2k said:


> Anyone have any thoughts about why Joanie was trying to commit suicide? Woolcott is dead, so she has no one to fear right now.


I'm guessing it's because Cy has basically taken care of her since she was a girl, and with all of her own girls gone, what's she going to do without him? You can see the others in the Saloon already turning on her, if Cy bites it, she's not strong enough to run the whores and the gambling all alone.



> Finally, did the man with the British accent renting the rooms remind anyone of the Russian telegraph operator from last season? I didn't check the credits, but they look and sound remarkably similar.


Yep, I thought she was sending a telegraph at first and the guy was trying to read it, which would have been odd since the Russian wasn't even bending to Swerengen's attempts to corrupt the system. Yet.


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## markb (Jul 24, 2002)

So I thought this was kind of interesting, if you're into behind-the-scenes stuff. There's a labeled map of Deadwood in the fictional Deadwood Pioneer posted on hbo.com:

http://www.hbo.com/deadwood/community/Deadwood_Pioneer.pdf

It looks like this actually corresponds to show's set at Melody Ranch. Here are some good pictures:

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=pqxk5453qn84&style=o&lvl=1&scene=2812549

The set wasn't dressed up like Deadwood when these pictures were taken. For instance, the Gem and the Bella Union are missing their balconies.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

purple6816 said:


> We like the show. But, we wish they did not have to use such harsh language. It is tough to watch without the kids hearing something. I actually think the C*&^(&^% word is used way to much.


You're kidding, right?  
You are watching the same show that we are, right? That's why the show is on HBO.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

"Why is everybody whispering all of a f*&king sudden!!"


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

ironchef said:


> "Gabriel's trumpet will summon you forth from the ass of a pig"
> 
> Is this the single best line on tv so far this decade?


I preferred "Custer was a c*nt. End of story"


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

I did love that Jane called Mrs. Bullock on her low talking. She is one of the reasons I close caption when I watch this show.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

-"Thank you for the introduction, Sheriff." ->Charlie Utter

-"Oh, a p*ss puddle. I must not have seen that when seating myself." ->Jane

-"BOYS!! E.B.'s had an accident, under your supervision." ->Al


And the single best monologue of all time:

-"The risk business on Adam's house loan. Adam's been nothing but his f*&king stalking horse from the gambit's f*&king beginning. You sign to take those over, we'll move in your 12...posessions, you'll be free to come and go by your own front f*&king door, and as you lay in your beddy-bye, I"LL pop from the wall like Grandma Groundhog in a storybook, and attend to your johnson, as he'd not see you jeopardize your mayor's campaign whore-f*&king in your place of business!!! And I'll have installed in Room 3-f*&king-C or the like of Shaughnessy's adjacent sh*tbox that he's paid Shaughnessy to cut a hole through to ease my f*&king f*&king you!!!!!" ->Trixie
"Swearingen has??" ->Sol
"Who the f*&k was I just talking to!!!" ->Trixie
"I don't know, you said you'd just gone to p*ss!" ->Sol


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

STALKING horse...


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## jgerry (Aug 29, 2001)

I'm glad it's back, and now I'm watching in high-def, and whoa! It looks fantastic. 

As for the language... Not the foul language, but the dialogue: at times, it's downright Shakespearean. It's complexity and VERY generous use of metaphor sometimes makes it hard to follow. I watched the episode twice to get a little more understanding out of it. I usually watch the episodes twice. It's worth it.

Trixie stole the episode for me with her angry monologue, and Sol's deadpan reply.

Hoopleheads return!!

Do we get a full run of 13 episodes this season??


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

I too, had a lot of trouble following what was said and what was going on, just like in seasons past. So much so, that I decided to quit my season pass of the show over it before I got deeper into this season.

Ordinarily, I appreciate shows that feature complex story lines and characters, but I just can't justify a show that requires I read the episode guide at the end of every scene to figure out what just happened. I can understand watching an episode twice to get some further meaning out of it and see things you missed the first time around, but I'd have to watch it again to outright understand it.

I don't doubt that this is a rich and beautiful show that tries to stand out from others through its language, but sadly, it was making me feel very, very stupid every time I watched it.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Ya know, I get that people find it hard to follow and that the language is difficult, but in my opinion that makes it more interesting to me. I really don't have trouble getting what someone is saying when they are talking. Maybe I just have an ear for languages or something, I never need captions or have trouble understanding strange dialects like Scottish or Welsh either.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I find that it takes me an episode or two to "get back into" the language so I can follow it easily. However, I pretty much got everything in this episode except one thing: when Bullock is sitting in the cell and Charlie Utter talks him into not quitting, I couldn't hear/understand/figure out exactly what Charlie was saying. I think he gave an example of some sheriff work he'd done, and asked whether the third guy running for sheriff would do so well... or something?


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

I believe Charlie's point was.

Better off we have you (Bullock) with a short sometimes wild temper, than the other guy who is an idiot.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

SeanC said:


> I believe Charlie's point was.
> 
> Better off we have you (Bullock) with a short sometimes wild temper, than the other guy who is an idiot.


Yeah, I understood the gist of what he said, but I was curious about the specific instance they were talking about and I couldn't figure it out.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

madscientist said:


> Yeah, I understood the gist of what he said, but I was curious about the specific instance they were talking about and I couldn't figure it out.


I believe he was talking about that fool that took the Sheriff's job (wasn't he one of Swearingen's men?) before Bullock took it. I remembered he was a bafoon and didn't have the camp's best interest in mind.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Uh, wasn't he talking about the way bullock diffused a volatile situation last season (don't recall now which one but I thought I recalled it at the time), and said that though he has a bad temper (which in some cases is good), if his opponent had been sheriff, it would have been bloody murder??


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

he was comparing them both and how he'd rather have Bullock and his short temper than the other idiot


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Yeah, but he told the story of a specific incident in doing so.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Yeah, but he told the story of a specific incident in doing so.


Exactly! Thanks TAsunder! And that was what I was trying to understand: what incident he was talking about. I was totally lost on most of what Utter was saying until the end when he said, basically, even with your temper would you rather have an idiot like that as sheriff? That part was clear enough but what he said before that was, to me, mud


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## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

Utter was referring to the shooting last year at Nuttall's place. Here is a description of the events from the Deadwood website:


> What he finds at the No. 10 saloon is a practical joke gone very wrong. Warned that he would be shot if he urinated in the saloon's cuspidor again, a man named Slippery Dan has switched coats with fellow sot Bummer Dan and dared him to relieve himself in the establishment. The challenge was taken, according to witnesses--and Bummer Dan was promptly shot by Harry Young the bartender.


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

Yes, that's the instance he was talking about. Harry Young is the one who shot Bummer Dan when he mistook him for Slippery Dan. And now he is running for Sheriff. He's the one that the bar owner told "why don't you just let them punch you in the face," indication he was push-over and couldn't make a decision.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Oh. Well I misunderstood then, I thought it was some example of bullock being awesome and sheriffy. But instead it was just an example of his opponent's idiocy.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Oh. Well I misunderstood then, I thought it was some example of bullock being awesome and sheriffy. But instead it was just an example of his opponent's idiocy.


Well, I think Utter's point, in addition to pointing out the weakness of Bullock's opponent, was also to point out that Bullock can indeed control his temper in the line of duty. After beating Farnum, Bullock was concerned that his temper gets the bet of him and he couldn't be a viable sheriff. Utter used the incident in Nuttall's as proof that Bullock was better than he thought he was, and therefore was indeed up to the job.


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## spciesla (Oct 9, 2004)

darthrsg said:


> Buncha hoopleheads the lot of ya!
> Welcome back to f****ing Deadwood, c*******ers!!


_*Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*_


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

drew2k said:


> Well, I think Utter's point, in addition to pointing out the weakness of Bullock's opponent, was also to point out that Bullock can indeed control his temper in the line of duty. After beating Farnum, Bullock was concerned that his temper gets the bet of him and he couldn't be a viable sheriff. Utter used the incident in Nuttall's as proof that Bullock was better than he thought he was, and therefore was indeed up to the job.


Also, Bullock put himself into the jail cell until Utter convinced him to feel better about beating the squirrel-crap outta EB.


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## stujac (Jan 26, 2002)

Anybody else get the email from Deadwood that leads to you playing poker with Al, Trixie and EB? Pretty neat. I'll add that Al got there at the end on every hand. The animation is hilarious.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

stujac said:


> Anybody else get the email from Deadwood that leads to you playing poker with Al, Trixie and EB? Pretty neat. I'll add that Al got there at the end on every hand. The animation is hilarious.


link, link, LINK DAMNIT!!!!!!!


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

http://www.hbo.com/deadwood/deadmanshand/


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## stujac (Jan 26, 2002)

I can't link it. You have to sign up for emails at Deadwood (or HBO?-I forgot). They send you an email and you click that link. You then download their software and play. If you want, PM me your email and I'll forward the email message.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

stujac said:


> I can't link it. You have to sign up for emails at Deadwood (or HBO?-I forgot). They send you an email and you click that link. You then download their software and play. If you want, PM me your email and I'll forward the email message.


Just go to HBO.com/deadwood and it's in the lower-right hand of the page.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

What was the deal w/Bullock's nose running and itching? Once w/Hearst, and again w/Mrs. Bullock?


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

I don't think his nose was runny or itchy. I think he would make a crappy poker player and was doing his best not to show his hand RE looking into the death of the cornish or his relationship to Al or Alma.


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

Deadwood viewership was down from last season.

Now I don't mean to harp on about how I found the show's prose too complex to follow, since I've said in the past here that if I don't like a show, I simply stop watching it and don't troll around and try and tell those who are still fans that they shouldn't be, but I can't help but wonder if the drop in numbers at least in some part is because of people like me tuning out because they found it extremely difficult to follow the show.


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## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

jschuur said:


> Deadwood viewership was down from last season.
> 
> Now I don't mean to harp on about how I found the show's prose too complex to follow, since I've said in the past here that if I don't like a show, I simply stop watching it and don't troll around and try and tell those who are still fans that they shouldn't be, but I can't help but wonder if the drop in numbers at least in some part is because of people like me tuning out because they found it extremely difficult to follow the show.


I don't doubt that in the slightest. The Wire and Deadwood are not easy to follow. But are two of the most rewarding shows on television in you can/do. Throw in Rescue Me and you have the top three dramas on television (in my humble little mind).


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## darthrsg (Jul 25, 2005)

jschuur said:


> Deadwood viewership was down from last season.
> 
> Now I don't mean to harp on about how I found the show's prose too complex to follow, since I've said in the past here that if I don't like a show, I simply stop watching it and don't troll around and try and tell those who are still fans that they shouldn't be, but I can't help but wonder if the drop in numbers at least in some part is because of people like me tuning out because they found it extremely difficult to follow the show.


Wouldn't the drop happen in the first season?


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

On the "difficult to follow" thread, I would add that I think this episode would have been an especially difficult one for a newcomer to follow, and become a regular viewer.

I thought the dialogue was even more obtuse than normal, plus 21 of the 23 current characters on HBO's Cast and Characters had a scene in the first half of the show. The only ones that didn't were Doc Cochran (who appeared shortly after) and Wu, who sadly didn't appear at all. That makes it hard for a newbie to get any sense of a plot or continuity.

Don't get me wrong, this is my favorite show - I love the obtuseness. I'm just saying that the obtuseness doesn't make it real easy for a newbie to get started on the show. By contrast, the first half of the very first episode of the first season heavily featured Bullock and his move to Deadwood, allowing a viewer to get the measure of the show with a little story continuity. (I'm explaining that poorly, but essentially what I'm trying to say is that for a first-time viewer, the first episode of season 1 was a lot easier to follow than the first episode this season.)


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## TiVo Bum (Nov 6, 2004)

Well as we all know this show ain't going on forever, what with this season and, theoretically, a couple of 2-hour movies all that's left, I'm happy that they don't spend too much time "recapping" things or easing new viewers into the story. To those that weren't here from the beginning I'd recommend not watching these until you've had ample time to digest the first two seasons.

And wherever Wu is, bring him back!! I miss that **********!!


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

Is there a connection music-wise between _Deadwood_ and _Firefly_ besides a Western theme?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

The nose thing was a nervous tick covering up his internal rage/turmoil. If this were a clive barker show, in a few weeks he would be cutting off his nose with a knife.

I think viewership is down because it is summer.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Finally got to watch it...my wife and I both agree that this show is now 100 times better than Sopranos...awesome start...we didn't have as much trouble with the language as in seasons past... 

as for the decrease in viewership, I think this is a trend for all of HBO's shows, isn't it? I think they need to realize that 10 years between seasons, and the season being only 3 eps (only a slight Exaggeration) is just not the way to build viewership...even if the show is fantastic...


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

cpalma said:


> Use Closed Captioning. Works for us.


We always use CC on this show too.



speedcouch said:


> It's not that we can't _hear_ what they are saying; it's the content we have trouble following. No amount of close captioning is ever gonna help that!


Well, we can hear it too, but the CC still helps. It's easier for the mind (my mind, anyway) to interpret the dialogue when it's being heard AND read.


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## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

Mr. Happypants said:


> Yep, I thought she was sending a telegraph at first and the guy was trying to read it, which would have been odd since the Russian wasn't even bending to Swerengen's attempts to corrupt the system. Yet.


That was odd; is this the same actor who played the Russian, but playing a different character, or is it a different actor altogether? He looked exactly the same as the Russian so I thought it was the same character, until he opened his mouth and started speaking with a British accent, plus it eventually became obvious he was running a seedy hotel and was being referred to as "Shaughnessy"; I assume this is a totally new character; I don't remember him from previous seasons. Plus the Russian telegraph operator has not made a reappearance yet this season. Odd.

Other things I found odd....the Cornishmen are shown in the bar conversing in Cornish. That's a little unlikely; there appear to have been a handful of Cornish speakers lingering on into the 19th century but it seems highly unlikely three or four of them would all happen to show up in the same saloon in frontier America (not impossible, just unlikely):


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornwall
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornish_language
> 
> Early Modern Cornish was the subject of a study published by the Welsh linguist Edward Lhuyd in 1702, and differs from the mediaeval language in having a considerably simpler structure and grammar. Such differences included the wide use of Cornish's original genitive, ablative and locative cases, and the use of certain modal affixes that, although out of use by Llwyd's time, had a considerable effect on the word-order of mediaeval Cornish. The Mediaeval language also possed two additional tenses for expressing past events and an extended set of possessive suffixes. By this time the language was already arguably in decline from its earlier heyday, and the situation worsened over the course of the next century. It is often claimed that the last native speaker of Cornish was the Mousehole resident Dolly Pentreath, who died in 1777. Notwithstanding her supposed last words, "Me ne vidn cewsel Sawznek!" ("I don't want to speak English!"), she spoke at least some English as well as Cornish. The last known monoglot Cornish speaker is believed to have been Chesten Marchant, who died in 1676 at Gwithian. It does, however, appear to be true that Dolly Pentreath spoke Cornish fluently and may have been one of the last to do so before the revival of the language in the 20th century. There is also, however, evidence that Cornish continued, albeit in limited usage by a handful of speakers, throughout the 19th century and into the early 20th century. In 1875 six speakers all in their sixties were discovered; some claim that John Davey who died in 1890 should be considered the last traditional speaker. Others, however, dispute this, saying that Alison Treganning, who died in 1906 was the last traditional speaker. Fishermen were counting fish in the Cornish language into the 1940s. It has been suggested by Cornish linguist Richard Gendall that some dialects of English spoken in Cornwall (especially the dialect of West Penwith, where traditional Cornish was last spoken) display strong lexical and prosodic influences from the Cornish language that almost certainly go back several centuries.


I also found other elements of the portrayal of the Cornish in Deadwood a little odd; the Cornish as depicted in Deadwood look more like the Irish as the 19th century Americans would have seen them: clannish, some able to speak their Celtic language, working class poor, strong tendency to form unions. The Cornish were in many ways the "anti-Irish" of that period: skilled miners (the Cornish have been mining since the bronze age when they exported tin) who were more likely to be on management's side rather than trying to form unions, or at any rate more likely to be on a higher skilled pay scale and thus more than just ordinary unskilled workmen; more likely to be Republican voters rather than Democratic voters, etc., and much more likely to be Protestant (Methodist) teetotallers who were not as likely to get killed in a gunfight, drinking liquor in a saloon, for trying to form a union, as say, an Irishman would be likely to. In short the Cornishmen as portrayed in Deadwood look more like Irishmen of that period. However, I'm not an expert on the topic so I'm happy to be proven wrong; I wonder what sources the writers were using to justify their portrayal of the Cornish.


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## Mabes (Jan 12, 2001)

jschuur said:


> I too, had a lot of trouble following what was said and what was going on, just like in seasons past. So much so, that I decided to quit my season pass of the show over it before I got deeper into this season.
> 
> Ordinarily, I appreciate shows that feature complex story lines and characters, but I just can't justify a show that requires I read the episode guide at the end of every scene to figure out what just happened. I can understand watching an episode twice to get some further meaning out of it and see things you missed the first time around, but I'd have to watch it again to outright understand it.
> 
> I don't doubt that this is a rich and beautiful show that tries to stand out from others through its language, but sadly, it was making me feel very, very stupid every time I watched it.


I have to agree with you there. Not to the point that I won't watch, or that I feel stupid (you shouldn't either) but you simply should not have to repeat a scene to understand a simple conversation. If there are complexities in the plot, or plottings of a character, that aren't fully revealed that's fine.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Where would one be from if they were Cornish? I really have no idea...


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## stujac (Jan 26, 2002)

Cornland??


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Cornwall.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

all I know it's like a Chicken...


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## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

pmyers said:


> Where would one be from if they were Cornish? I really have no idea...


I had to look it up too.


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## ironchef (Dec 27, 2002)

Mabes said:


> I have to agree with you there. Not to the point that I won't watch, or that I feel stupid (you shouldn't either) but you simply should not have to repeat a scene to understand a simple conversation. If there are complexities in the plot, or plottings of a character, that aren't fully revealed that's fine.


But these aren't simple conversations, they're complex interactions in a dialect that hasn't been spoken for a 100 years +/-. Go to the deep south if you're from the north, the accent and colloquialisms are just as tough to follow. If you're from the south head to Fargo, you'll have the same problems doncha know.

Yes, we pause and rewind to get the dialogue, and this isn't a show we watch casually, as with The Wire, it is work but it is immensely rewarding. If you want to see how bad it could be, compare Doris Day's Calamity Jane to "Custer was a c*nt, the End".


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

ironchef said:


> But these aren't simple conversations, they're complex interactions in a dialect that hasn't been spoken for a 100 years +/-. Go to the deep south if you're from the north, the accent and colloquialisms are just as tough to follow. If you're from the south head to Fargo, you'll have the same problems doncha know...


You are so right about the north/south language barrier. I will always remember the time that I brought my friend from Chicago down to Texas and one of my local friends asked us "Do ya'll want to cut a path on outta here?" and my Chicago friend just looked at me and said "what the heck did he just ask us?".

p.s that means: "You guys ready to leave yet?"


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## Mabes (Jan 12, 2001)

ironchef said:


> But these aren't simple conversations, they're complex interactions in a dialect that hasn't been spoken for a 100 years +/-. Go to the deep south if you're from the north, the accent and colloquialisms are just as tough to follow. If you're from the south head to Fargo, you'll have the same problems doncha know.
> 
> Yes, we pause and rewind to get the dialogue, and this isn't a show we watch casually, as with The Wire, it is work but it is immensely rewarding. If you want to see how bad it could be, compare Doris Day's Calamity Jane to "Custer was a c*nt, the End".


I watch The Wire, and it can be hard to follow but it's a great show. But I understand the English they are saying, although occasionally there is some slang I don't know. All I'm saying is that the writers of Deadwood should tone down the language a bit, while still maintaining it's spirit. Not as easy task, granted. But there are complex enough interactions among the characters, I don't really want to have to learn a new language to watch a TV show.

The line you quoted is great, so is "Gabriel will summon you forth..." The latter is flowery and profane at the same time, but there is no doubt about what it means. I don't have to decifer it, I just laugh at it.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

No way... the deadwood dialogue is one of the fundamental things that make it great. I don't watch shakespeare and wish it were easier to follow...


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## ironchef (Dec 27, 2002)

Mabes said:


> The line you quoted is great, so is "Gabriel will summon you forth..." The latter is flowery and profane at the same time, but there is no doubt about what it means. I don't have to decifer it, I just laugh at it.


Actually, I quoted that line in an earlier thread as one of the best lines of the new millenium, I was stunned when he said it. You do have to know, however, that Al has a habit of feeding people he has no respect for to Wu's pigs. So the threat works on a couple of levels and says a great deal about Al's complex Machiavellian thinking. This truly is Shakespeare in the mud.

Sopranos, Entourage, Deadwood, Rescue Me, Big Love, The Wire, Battlestar Galactica - Does anyone else think we're living in television's golden age?


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## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

ClutchBrake said:


> I had to look it up too.


All this, *after* I posted links and quotes from a wiki article about the Cornish and Cornwall. Sigh. 

The Cornish used to be a major ethnic group in 19th century America, especially in mining areas. I guess they have simply disappeared down America's cultural/historical amnesia hole, along with limited, constitutional government, male hat wearing, and spittoons. Hmmmm....probably a good thing we have forgotten about spittoons.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

I have to say that I believe I understand where Mike (Mabes) is coming from as far as the dialogue of this show is concerned. One of the things I found frustrating is that it seemed to do a 180 degree turn from almost unintelligible old English to profanity on a level the Sopranos wouldn't touch. 

I have to admit to having resisted the show before I started watching the HD repeats of the last few eps from Season 2 when I added HBO in February. The Old West just seems so disgusting to me and, to the show's credit, it reflects my impression.

I'm finding I have to turn on closed captioning, which HBO does a crappy job with btw, and watch eps multiple times before I even begin to feel I understand most of the dialogue. Maybe that's something everyone goes through, but I know I personally find it necessary. I guess it's just the way the show challenges viewers.

I have to say that I have warmed to the show, it's very original with a talented cast. But, as Mike says, the dialogue is a bit hard to handle for a new viewer, IMO. Then there's the whole issue of figuring out how each character fits in, but I feel like I'm making headway with that.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

To jump into this language discussion ... 

Does any recall the discussion of dialog on NYPD Blue, another series on which Milch greatly contributed? By the middle of the series' run, even the actors were complaining about how "obtuse" the language was becoming. Milch started off simply, using lots of police/detective jargon, but then really piled it on. 

I have a feeling he's doing the same with Deadwood. He started off introducing us to the colorful language of days gone by in a frontier town, and got so immersed in the patterns of that language, it's maybe starting to run away from some of us ... (yes, me included).


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## tgibbs (Sep 22, 2002)

I was just watching this episode and commenting to a friend what a delight it is to watch a show with such a richness of language. Certainly the language is a big part of the reason why I watch the show. My main problem with the show was not the language, which I follow pretty well (certainly as well as I do Shakespeare), but getting back up to speed with the characters and the plot.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

I just realized that I posted the below comment on the wrong thread - it should have been on the thread for the June 18th episode, "I am not the fine man..." - my apologies to any late comers to the thread, so I've spoilerized it. Anyone who responded and revealed something should similarly spoilerize their response.



Spoiler



I watched this episode over again, and I got a kick out of Al's answer to Hearst's question "what are you going to do to help me get Alma's claim?" Al's answer was something along the lines of "first thing when you meet with her, profess a disdain for foul language, and second, pretend to enjoy fruity tea."

Hearst naturally takes it to be a smartass answer (and Al naturally knows that Hearst will take it as a smartass answer), but ironically, based on the one conversation that Al had with Alma, that's probably actually the first and best advice he would have given!

(Al and Alma drank fruity tea while Alma chastised Al several times for his swearing, during the conversation where Al went to her room to warn her, IIRC, that her family was getting the Pinkertons involved in trying to wrest her fortune from her.)


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## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

Spoiler






Bananfish said:


> Hearst naturally takes it to be a smartass answer (and Al naturally knows that Hearst will take it as a smartass answer), but ironically, based on the one conversation that Al had with Alma, that's probably actually the first and best advice he would have given!


That's a good observation, and illustrates how Hearst is a little out of his depth, using force too quickly when he does not yet have enough good local intelligence to actually know what is going on. Trying to use Al as a way to manipulate Alma shows that Hearst doesn't really understand the local situation yet; someone who knew what was going on would not have done that.

Maybe Hearst is suffering from the loss of what's-his-name, the crazy guy who liked to kill prostitutes. Hearst needs someone to fill him in on the local situation and crazy knife guy (Wolcott?) hung himself before properly briefing Hearst on all the local intelligence, apparently. Hearst hasn't even picked up on the clue about the relationship between Alma and Seth yet, in spite of Seth's slipups.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

dmdeane said:


> apparently. Hearst hasn't even picked up on the clue about the relationship between Alma and Seth yet, in spite of Seth's slipups.


he picked up on it...he even told Seth that he doesn't care about such things...


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## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

dmdeane said:


> All this, *after* I posted links and quotes from a wiki article about the Cornish and Cornwall. Sigh.


I looked it up after watching the episode. A week before you posted the info.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Bananfish said:


> (Al and Alma drank fruity tea while Alma chastised Al several times for his swearing, during the conversation where Al went to her room to warn her, IIRC, that her family was getting the Pinkertons involved in trying to wrest her fortune from her.)


Was it fruity tea? I remember Al's response when she asked if he likes tea, it was "I like that f*****g Darjeeling" but darjeeling is generally a black tea.


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## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

ClutchBrake said:


> I looked it up after watching the episode. A week before you posted the info.


You were responding to someone who asked the question after I had posted the answer. There was no way from your post that I could tell that you had looked up the answer yourself "a week before"; I'm not a mindreader, you know. Sorry, perhaps I should have responded to the other poster directly to avoid confusion.


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## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> he picked up on it...he even told Seth that he doesn't care about such things...


Which episode was that? When did he say it? I'm afraid the episodes are starting to run together in my mind and as someone else noted above we seem to be crossing over multiple episodes.....


Spoiler



....point is in any case, he tried to use Al to manipulate Alma, and if he had understood Al and Alma better, he would have known not to attempt such a thing.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

when he and Seth were talking, Seth told him that what went on between him and Alma was none of his business...Hearst had a look of surprise on his face, then comprehension, then he said such things were not his concern...

he tried to get Al to get him an audience with Alma because Seth wouldn't do it...


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