# Directivos with UPS



## DPMGR39 (May 21, 2005)

Can anyone tell me how long two directivos will run in the event of a power outage if they are connected to a APC 350VA/200 watt UPS? I will not be connecting anything to the UPS except the two directivos.


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## The_WRAiTH (Apr 8, 2006)

DPMGR39 said:


> Can anyone tell me how long two directivos will run in the event of a power outage if they are connected to a APC 350VA/200 watt UPS? I will not be connecting anything to the UPS except the two directivos.


I have mine each running on a ups I belive is that size. If I remember I think mine stayed up a leaat 30mins (now that is for only one on the ups).

If you have (2) running off the same ups, I would say about 15mins maybe...


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## LostCluster (Feb 11, 2002)

Connect the USB port of the UPS to a computer and install APC's PowerChute software if you don't already have it. Don't connect the computer's power to the UPS, and you'll get exactly the number you're looking for.


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## shanew1289 (May 7, 2004)

APC does have a runtime calcualtor on their website. You need to know the power draw though.


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## jmace57 (Nov 30, 2002)

Also, remember that the older the UPS gets, the shorter the time will be (in my experience).

Jim


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

I'd get a 650VA for two TiVos.

I get 20 Min or so with a 325VA powering one SA TiVo and a satellite receiver.


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## Tivo_Pilot (Jul 9, 2005)

Don't forget to have the UPS connected to any multiswitch on the system.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I get about 45-50 minutes on a new 350VA UPS and one DTiVo. For two, I would definitely get a larger model. Currently, I am running one on a 550VA model.


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## DPMGR39 (May 21, 2005)

I took the 350VA back and got a APC 600 VA unit. Stevel, should this unit be ok for the two units? Also, I have two DVD recorders I'm going to hook into the surge protection only outlets, along with my home theatre system. I hear I can do that on the surge only outlets without effecting the runtime on the directivos. Both dvd recorders and the home theatre I have service contracts on, so I really only want the surge protection on those.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

And if you have an OTA amp also  Still didn't get one rigged up in my attic yet. Ok a bit extreme, i agree


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

600VA is ok for two DTiVos. Really, the biggest benefit is just getting over the first two seconds of a power outage - anything past that is gravy. An advantage of larger units is that their circuitry tends to be a bit more robust. Some offer voltage regulation, which is not really all that useful for a TiVo but it doesn't hurt.

Using the surge-only outlets for your other devices is fine and has no effect on the runtime.


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## DPMGR39 (May 21, 2005)

I dont think this one has AVR. They had a APC1100 at Sams also that does have it. They only had the 600 and the 1100. I just did not need the 1100. I just do alot of recording on my Dtivos. Last weekend I found out I have an impending hard drive problem on my main unit in the livingroom. I run two units in the livingroom. Anyway, I have a unit in the bedroom that was more a backup unit than anything. I moved it to the livingroom, had it already setup the way I wanted it, so all I had to do was plug it up and go. I am retrieving shows from the main unit I had problems with. And sometime later on, when I find a really good deal on a big hard drive, I will take the two drive unit and change it back to a one drive unit. That was the only unit I had two drives in. Sure it can be nice, but with the much larger drives available today, it's just as easy to go with one drive. After all, with two, if a problem arises, you have to figure out first which drive has problems, I really just dont have the time right now to mess with that. I would rather just take one drive check it if I think it might still be usuable, and even if so, I am the type of person who would just get a new drive on sale, put it in for ease of mind, then keep the repaired drive on the shelf as an emergency backup if needed.


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## DPMGR39 (May 21, 2005)

Another update to this. Found a 650VA APC at office depot for $49.99 after rebates, thus $10 cheaper than the 600VA I got at sams yesterday. Therefore, I picked up one of these and will take the other one back to sams next time I'm over there. One thing about the two units. They look the same, one is a NS series one is a ES series. Anyone know the difference in that? They also had a 325VA for $15 after rebates. Got one of those as well to plug my daughters DVR into.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Are you sure about "NS"? The only APC NS series I can find are rack-mounted models meant for protecting servers.

"ES" is their current "value" line.


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## DPMGR39 (May 21, 2005)

Yes, it does say NS. Everything else on the back of the box looks to be the same except this 650 ES shows something about network protection. 

Another question stevel. I have before used regular surge protectors in the 1700-2000 joule rating or slightly better. I look at the specs on this unit, it says full time 375 joules. How are these units better for surges than the other surge protectors that I mentioned above? I have been research forums, as well as called some places, and from everything I have found, people seem to agree that a regular surge protector does not protect as good as a UPS unless you get a surge protector that you have to spend some pretty good bucks on. 

From what I have found searching on forums, I have read people say even the cheaper UPS units 350VA range are better than regular surge protectors.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

The surge suppression in that model is good enough, especially as it has filtering with "zero clamping time". I wouldn't worry about it.

Odd that I can't find information on the NS model at APC's web site.... I can see that some of the higher-rated ES models have RJ45 protection.


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## DPMGR39 (May 21, 2005)

ok, on the 325VA unit I got, as far as surge protection it says full time 1800ep joules. It is the model BE325R. I am planning to put it on my daughters dtivo. I dont know quite as much about these. Do you think those are better than the regular surge protectors?


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

years ago, belkin had a code 1234 or 12345 that would get you 1/2 off their web prices. Not sure if it works yet though. I'm 2+ years on my belkin 1200 and 1000 and am very pleased.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

A UPS, any UPS, is better for a TiVo than a plain surge suppressor, no matter how good.

The Belkin 1234 code doesn't work anymore. I also took advantage of it in the past.


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## baatz (Dec 26, 2001)

I have an APC UPS1500 unit with the extra battery pack (double battery size?) providing backup for my two DirecTiVo units (DSR6000's). I figure since I live in Florida I might really need the extra backup power when the next 'Cane strikes us. At least I won't have to hurry as fast to get the backup generator fueled up and running...

But I still haven't figured out how to protect my house and the D* dish that is mounted on the outside corner of my house from high winds and storm surge...

I wonder if I might have gone a little over the top on battery backup for my TiVo...  

Nahhhhh...


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## DPMGR39 (May 21, 2005)

I could use several of those, but I'm was just more concerned with having something keep the units going a few minutes so if I happen to be home, I can just get the units shut off without having a quick power do it.


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## baatz (Dec 26, 2001)

DPMGR39 said:


> I could use several of those, but I'm was just more concerned with having something keep the units going a few minutes so if I happen to be home, I can just get the units shut off without having a quick power do it.


That makes a *lot* of sense... Although, I just shudder to think that about possibly missing an episode with Denny Crane and Alan Shore. 

I guess I badly need a friend who doesn't live closeby and who has a TiVo with a season pass set for _Boston Legal_...


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

I had 2 of my TiVo's plus my VCR/DVD hooked to one 350VA
(I think, it's a 3-4 year old APC Back-UPS Office that they don't even make anymore)
and it kept them happy in standby mode for at least 30 minutes before it's battery died.

Power had gone out numerous times when I wasn't there, so I don't know how long it was out, but I never lost a recording.

When I got the HD TiVo I figured I needed more so I got a newer 350VA Back-UPS ES, and just have it and my 5x8 powered multiswitch plugged into battery, split the rest of the AV equipment (TV, DVD, PS2, 5.1 Reciever, video/audio switches, etc) between the surge only outlets on both UPS's.

Again, I haven't been there when the power went out while anything is recording, but it has a couple times in the last month, and I have yet to miss a recording because of it.

The TiVo's must not suck down a lot of juice, even when recording.


phox


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## baatz (Dec 26, 2001)

phox_mulder said:


> "...split the rest of the AV equipment (TV, DVD, PS2, 5.1 Reciever, video/audio switches, etc) between the surge only outlets on both UPS's.
> 
> The TiVo's must not suck down a lot of juice, even when recording. phox


My APC RS1500 UPS with a BR24 addl battery pack will provide uninterrupted power for approximately 90 minutes if both units are operating at their rated 1-amp power consumption. The average power outage "usually" lasts far less?

Since each model of D* receiver's power consumption varies somewhat the runtime with each will vary too. I believe that my two DirecTiVo units draw about 1 amp each (120-watts)... That's not really very much compared to a big power amp or A/V receiver.

Luckily, when I last upgraded my equipment --- I added up the total number of amps that all of my A/V equipment draws and was surprised to find that my various A/V units need roughly 28 amps.

So, in addition to my battery backup I also ran two 12-gauge dedicated 20-amp AC circuits to my equipment rack and split everything up equally between them. Now I am not overloading the wiring like I was when I only had a single 15-amp circuit.

Personally, I would much rather buy an oversized UPS than spend money gambling on extended warranties or insurance policies...


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## Joe C (Jul 8, 2002)

I'm using 2 deep cycle marine batteries with this to power four Dtivos. The last power outage was 2 hrs. All 4 Tivos were up with plenty of reserve battery power left. :up:


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

DirecTiVos draw at most 45W. I've measured it.

For whole-house surge suppresion, I recommend a suppressor attached to your breaker panel. These start at around $50 and should be installed by a qualified electrician. (I installed my own, but it's not something I would recommend to someone not experienced with running new circuits.)


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

what do you think about those (couple of dollar a month) suppressors at the meter that supposedly protect your whole house? I dont know much about them. Anyone use them? If they are better than even a 1-200 dollar UPS, then it may be worth considering


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Surge suppressor is not the same as UPS. A surge suppressor does not protect you against momentary dropouts of power which can kill a TiVo's disk drive. A UPS will.

A whole house surge suppressor at the meter or service panel is a good idea - I have one in my house. These can handle more current than any of the plug-in kind but tend to have slower response rates, unless you go for expensive models.

For protecting a TiVo, a UPS provides the kind of protection needed, a surge suppressor only, no matter where it is, does not.


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## kb1cvh (Dec 30, 2003)

Does the HDVR2 have auto shutdown on signal via USB from the UPS when the battery is running down ?

If not, where can one find the daemon and other associated info?

So Cal - where the lights of Hollywood are drawing too much power.

73 de
Peter


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

baatz said:


> My APC RS1500 UPS with a BR24 addl battery pack will provide uninterrupted power for approximately 90 minutes if both units are operating at their rated 1-amp power consumption. The average power outage "usually" lasts far less?


Those RS units always confuse me for a moment. They have much less battery power for their max size that APC old standard. Which messes up my old rule of thumb metrics for how big a UPS you want for a given run time.

For example. 
The APC replacement battery for the RS1500 (their 1500 volt-amp RS unit) is the RBC33, which is a pair of 8 Amp-Hour batteries, 16 AH total.
The APC replacement battery for the old SU1400 (their 1400 volt-amp Smart-UPS unit) is the RBC7, which is a pair of 18 Amp-Hour batteries, 36 AH total. 
More that twice as much battery power, even though the max load is actually a bit less.

I really wish that all UPSs were advertized by both their max load _and_ their battery size. It would make it so much easier to find the approriate UPS.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

kb1cvh said:


> Does the HDVR2 have auto shutdown on signal via USB from the UPS when the battery is running down ?


There's no support for this. The good thing is that when the UPS does shut down, it will do so cleanly and the TiVo will deal with that fine. It's the momentary power glitches that accompany the start and stop of a power failure that can kill a TiVo.


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## Greenwing (Dec 21, 2001)

stevel said:


> The Belkin 1234 code doesn't work anymore. I also took advantage of it in the past.


The belkin code is 12345...not 1234...and it does indeed still work...

Have bought probably 6 or 7 through them...

12345 code gets a $199.99 1500VA Network UPS down to $119.99...Real good deal, IMHO...

GreenWing


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## kschauwe (Sep 17, 2003)

Jon,
The AH rating doesn't add together when the batteries are hooked in series, just the voltage adds up, (SU1400 runs on 24v). I agree, you can't judge run time on UPS capacity alone.


(Entertainment Center feed by APC SU1400net.)


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

stevel said:


> Surge suppressor is not the same as UPS. A surge suppressor does not protect you against momentary dropouts of power which can kill a TiVo's disk drive. A UPS will.
> 
> A whole house surge suppressor at the meter or service panel is a good idea - I have one in my house. These can handle more current than any of the plug-in kind but tend to have slower response rates, unless you go for expensive models.
> 
> For protecting a TiVo, a UPS provides the kind of protection needed, a surge suppressor only, no matter where it is, does not.


is there any danger/problem with using UPS or other surge protectors with a whole house device? I know you aren't supposed to chain surge protectors...but is this different?

also, would the whole house thing protect me from the blinking my lights do when my neighbors AC turns on?


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

newsposter said:


> is there any danger/problem with using UPS or other surge protectors with a whole house device? I know you aren't supposed to chain surge protectors...but is this different?


No. Chaining surge suppressors themselves isn't really a problem except for power draw. The issue with a UPS is that the output stage of a UPS doesn't like the high frequency response of a line that has MOVs across it.



> also, would the whole house thing protect me from the blinking my lights do when my neighbors AC turns on?


No. That's a voltage lag due to inadequate wire size (typically). But if you get a UPS with automatic voltage regulation, it will isolate your TiVo (or PC or whatever) from such effects, even though they rarely care about voltage sags.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

so is or is not safe to use my belkin UPS with a whole house protector?


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## hijammer (Aug 27, 2003)

what do you mean by whole house protector?


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

It is safe to use a UPS with a whole-house surge suppressor. (One that attaches to the service panel.) Just don't plug a surge suppressor outlet strip into the battery-backed-up outlet of a UPS.


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