# Fios - Roamio vs MRDVR



## jr461 (Jul 9, 2004)

Looking for some advice on the possibility of switching to Tivo for my Fios setup. I currently pay $79/mo on equipment alone (MRDVR, 3 DVRs and a plain HD box), or approx $950 annually. I like this set up and definitely do not want Quantum.

I was researching the Tivo Roamio with 4 mini boxes but realized that each mini uses one of the 6 tuners on the Roamio for live TV, which won't work for me.

My question is, would I be able to use 2 Roamios (I'd get a Roamio and a Roamio plus and 3 minis? If both Roamios can be seen by all the other boxes, this would be ideal.

I presume I'd need to pay a separate service fee for each Roamio ($300/year) to make this happen? Even so, with the cablecards, this setup pays for itself in approx 1 1/2 years and then I gain $500/year in savings (first year = $1050 hardware + $300 service + $120 cards = $1470, then $420 per year thereafter).

Will this work?

If so, what are the downsides to this versus Verizon's equipment?

Is the IMG the same? What about guide info? VOD?

Any pics would be awesome to see how it interfaces with Fios.

Who services these if there's an issue? I assume Verizon still supports their wiring into the house but what about a Tivo box issue?

Will my external drive work or will I lose all that I have recorded?

If I do this, do I just order a cable card and arrange with CS the return of all my equipment? I'm sure Verizon is not thrilled when this happens!

Thanks in advance!!


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Yeah you can get multiple Roamios. Both Roamios will have their own fees unless you opt for Lifetime. (Approx. $1500 + taxes all-in for the 5 boxes if you use a coupon code from ebay user spherular.)

The primary downside is that Tivos don't have access to Verizon's VOD. There are apps for Amazon, Netflix, Hulu Plus, and Vudu if it helps.

Also, the basic Roamio will need a moca adapter if it's not going to be connected by ethernet. (Streaming/transfers require a wired connection. Verizon's router already supplies the moca network, so moca is a handy option to use if ethernet is not practical to that location.)

Guide info is supplied by Tribune Media... equal or better than Verizon's supplier.

I'm sure there are videos you can check on youtube to see the how the Roamio UI works. It's fairly clean and straightforward. This is a good review: 




The IMG... it's not the same software Verizon uses, naturally. But all of the Tivo boxes will have a uniform UI.

An external drive for Verizon equipment won't work with Tivo equipment. Tivo's also particular about which external drives it works with. But these extenders tend not to be reliable so most people prefer to upgrade the internal drive instead. It's very easy with a Roamio... just swap the drive and it'll format itself.

Tivo's good about helping as much as they reasonably can to figure out what's wrong. But if it's determined that there's something wrong with the cablecard, for example, that will obviously be a Verizon issue to fix.

Yeah, you pretty much just order 2 cablecards and set up equipment returns.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

I'm on FiOS with TiVo. It was a no brainer for me. I have a Roamio Pro and 2 Minis. I also have 2 older TiVoHDs on my network.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

BigJimOutlaw, please explain about the basic Roamio needing MOCA. No ethernet on that. 

I thought you had the option for either.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

waynomo said:


> BigJimOutlaw, please explain about the basic Roamio needing MOCA. No ethernet on that.
> 
> I thought you had the option for either.


You can do either one, but there's no built-in moca on the basic. It'll need a moca adapter if it's not going to be connected by ethernet.


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## nycityuser (Dec 30, 2004)

Just have to add my two cents.

I have a Roamio Pro, TiVo HD and a Mini on FIOS. I also have a Verizon HD box for the purpose of watching any On Demand content that I might want to see from Verizon. I rarely use the Verizon box because I find it so slow to respond to remote control commands and I find the interface cumbersome.

When you use a TiVo with a cablecard the experience/interface is completely different from using a Verizon box. TiVo works the same across cable providers so you can't really tell who the cable provider is when using it. And that's not really relevant anyway. In fact, if you switch from one cable provider to another the TiVo box will do all the work of remapping the channel numbers and future recordings (after going through set-up for the new cable company). I switched from RCN to FIOS several years ago and TiVo made the move very easy. I did not lose any previous recordings and did not have to re-establish the season passes.


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

jr461 said:


> I was researching the Tivo Roamio with 4 mini boxes but realized that each mini uses one of the 6 tuners on the Roamio for live TV, which won't work for me.


Be aware that each mini only needs a tuner from the Roamio when you are using it to watch live TV. A tuner is not needed by the mini for watching a previously recorded show.

Experienced Tivo users rarely watch live TV.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

bobfrank said:


> Be aware that each mini only needs a tuner from the Roamio when you are using it to watch live TV. A tuner is not needed by the mini for watching a previously recorded show.


Are you sure about that? I thought a Mini when in use always used a tuner.


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## kokishin (Sep 9, 2014)

bobfrank said:


> Be aware that each mini only needs a tuner from the Roamio when you are using it to watch live TV. A tuner is not needed by the mini for watching a previously recorded show.
> 
> Experienced Tivo users rarely watch live TV.


Also when done watching live tv on the Mini, press the Tivo button on the remote to go to Tivo Central. The Mini will relinquish the tuner it was using.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

waynomo said:


> Are you sure about that? I thought a Mini when in use always used a tuner.


Only when watching live TV.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

As said, the mini only uses a tuner when watching live TV on that device... It releases the tuner when not in use.

Since you have FIOS, the Internet connection is already pushed down your coax line - you won't need an Ethernet connection at each location - just attach the coax cable and it will find the Roamio automatically (Either/or not both).

The Roamio hard drive can be easily upgraded, I would get the Plus and throw a 3 or 4 TB drive in it before setup. (4tb takes a little more effort)

Roamio Plus with lifetime Sevice - $800
4 tivo Mini @150 each - $600

Total $1,400 and you are all in with no additional Sevice fees to TiVo and only one cable card from FIOS.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Everyone doesn't have the internet connection over Coax. WHen I got FiOS in 2007 I specifically got an Ethernet connection so I wouldn't need to use the crappy FIOS supplied routers. I have five of them gathering dust in my closet. For some reason FiOS keeps sending them to me. I tried to send one back once and that turned into a long ordeal. And in the end it still wasn't sent back. So now, whenever I receive a new router, it just goes on the ever growing pile of Actiontec routers in a closet.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

Let me know if you have any interest in getting rid of those extra routers.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I would like to but I've heard stories about FiOS wanting them back at some point even though they are supposedly off your account. That is why I still keep them. Just in case they ask for them back. So I will have them instead of them trying to charge me a bunch of money for each of them. While I have always loved the FiOS service, their billing leaves a lot to be desired.


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## tallmomof2 (May 3, 2014)

I switched to Tivo last June. I have a Roamio Pro, Promio Plus, and 2 minis. All with lifetime subscriptions. I calculated that I would break even in 18 months. But the user experience is superior to the old FIOS Motorola boxes. My picture is even better. 

With Netflix, Hulu, and Amazon, I have no need for FIOS VOD and don't miss it at all. 

Also you can watch your recordings on IOS devices and with the update I think you'll be able to watch on Android devices. 

I can still use the FIOS app on my iPad to watch if I want but I don't as it's easier to use my iPad.

aaronwt - I've had FIOS since it was first offered and Verizon has never sent me a router. After the first one died they sold me one at a "discount". After that one died I had to buy one at full price. I only use it to get WAN into the house and then use my router for my network.


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## kokishin (Sep 9, 2014)

aaronwt said:


> Everyone doesn't have the internet connection over Coax. WHen I got FiOS in 2007 I specifically got an Ethernet connection so I wouldn't need to use the crappy FIOS supplied routers. I have five of them gathering dust in my closet. For some reason FiOS keeps sending them to me. I tried to send one back once and that turned into a long ordeal. And in the end it still wasn't sent back. So now, whenever I receive a new router, it just goes on the ever growing pile of Actiontec routers in a closet.


Funny!

If you call Verizon and ask them how many routers are associated with you account, I wonder what they would tell you?


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

tallmomof2 said:


> aaronwt - I've had FIOS since it was first offered and Verizon has never sent me a router. After the first one died they sold me one at a "discount". After that one died I had to buy one at full price.


They sent me one for free when I wanted to upgrade my speed but the current router couldn't handle it. I've since upgraded that one via eBay a time or 2.


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## jr461 (Jul 9, 2004)

tallmomof2 said:


> I switched to Tivo last June. I have a Roamio Pro, Promio Plus, and 2 minis. All with lifetime subscriptions. I calculated that I would break even in 18 months. But the user experience is superior to the old FIOS Motorola boxes. My picture is even better.
> 
> With Netflix, Hulu, and Amazon, I have no need for FIOS VOD and don't miss it at all.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a similar set up to the one I'm interested in.

Can the 2 Roamios see each other and can the minis see both Roamios?

Is it true plug and play? I have the red Actiontek router (version I, I think) and all existing boxes are connected with coax.

VOD would not be an issue for me since those would be covered with the online offerings.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

aaronwt said:


> Everyone doesn't have the internet connection over Coax.


I think it is a pretty safe assumption that the OP is using the standard Actiontec router and has MOCA standard in his setup - no need to take the conversation off topic...

The OP has an idea of what he wants but has come here to bolster his understanding of TiVo as a solution. And I simply wanted to clarity a few points:

- The Mini no longer permanently steals a tuner from the Roamio
- The standard FIOS setup includes MoCA
- A lifetime subscription is an option he should consider
- Hardrive upgrading is an option if he needs more space

FIOS and TiVo are a great match together... No need for a tuning adapter and only HBO & Cinimax have the copy once CCI bit set.

Let me also answer some of his specific questions.


> ...what are the downsides to this versus Verizon's equipment?


Tivo is a premium experience compared to MSO DVR's, only the Direct TV option comes close and I would still opt for tivo if I could.

You also have the own versus lease benefit, with lifetime service the Roamio will maintain a significant value if you choose to resell it later and as you know also has the benefit of elimiting the DVR fees you pay to Verizon.

Downside? Only downside is the upfront cost...



> Is the IMG the same? What about guide info? VOD?


The quality of the picture is the same, no issues with that... FIOS does not support VOD on the tivo, so you would loose that as an option. Some say the guide info comes from the same place - maybe, but it is very reliable, should be identical.



> Any pics would be awesome to see how it interfaces with Fios.


The interface is all tivo, nothing to show...



> Who services these if there's an issue? I assume Verizon still supports their wiring into the house but what about a Tivo box issue?


While issues are rare, they do happen. I have never had a hard drive go bad in any of my TiVo's, but that is the most likely issue. The Roamio line makes replacement a plug and play afair. Ultimately if something goes wrong with your TiVo, it will be your responsibility to fix it.



> Will my external drive work or will I lose all that I have recorded?


That depends on how you have content saved to your external drive. Using either TiVo desktop or PyTiVo you can easily move and watch standard video formats from your external drive. If you are trying to use an external drive to migrate your current FIOS DVR recordings to the TiVo, I suspect the answer is no... Those would have been encrypted by FIOS and unreadable by the TiVo.



> If I do this, do I just order a cable card and arrange with CS the return of all my equipment? I'm sure Verizon is not thrilled when this happens!


Correct, you can choose to either do the Cablecard install yourself or have Verizon come out and do it for you. Cablecard installs use to be a PITA, but the process has improved significantly over the years...


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

jr461 said:


> Sounds like a similar set up to the one I'm interested in.
> 
> Can the 2 Roamios see each other and can the minis see both Roamios?
> 
> ...


Yes it is basically plug and play. The only potential pitfall is getting the cablecard(s) paired. Authorization of the cards is easy (which will get you almost every channel) but if you subscribe to HBO/Cinemax you will need the card paired for those channels. It took us an extra 20 minutes on the phone to get to someone that knew what they were doing well enough to get the pairing done. YMMV.

Once up and running, TiVo on FiOS is rock solid. We have 2 Roamio Pros and 5 Minis, and only pay Verizon less than $10/month for equipment. The Mini's are basically like a remote interface to the Roamio, so you can do almost anything you can do locally, including managing the To-Do List and SPs.

TiVos don't do a unified playlist (perhaps the only thing I miss from DirecTV's DVRs) but when using a Mini you can switch to the other TiVo DVR(s) to access it's playlist, just like you can from the host DVR itself. You can also switch which DVR is the Mini's host DVR very easily (takes less than 5 minutes).


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

I don't have FIOS, but I too had to make a few calls to get HBO paired with my cablecard even though the cablecard worked fine with everything else.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Switching hosts for the Minis takes literally ten seconds when starting from the main Tivo screen. At least the last two times I timed it that was the longest it took.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> Switching hosts for the Minis takes literally ten seconds when starting from the main Tivo screen. At least the last two times I timed it that was the longest it took.


Well, I was allowing for time required to find the option the first time.


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## jr461 (Jul 9, 2004)

bradleys said:


> I think it is a pretty safe assumption that the OP is using the standard Actiontec router and has MOCA standard in his setup - no need to take the conversation off topic...
> 
> The OP has an idea of what he wants but has come here to bolster his understanding of TiVo as a solution. And I simply wanted to clarity a few points:
> 
> ...


Thank you for the detailed feedback.

Correct that I have the Actiontek router (Rev I is what I think it is - the red one).

It sounds like this would work just fine, however, the HBO/Cinemax difficulty sounds like a pain. Is it just a matter of getting a Verizon tech support agent on the phone?

Is there an order to setting up multiple Roamio DVRs (I've read about some bad experiences with Quantum if a specific procedure wasn't followed).

I guess I'm leaning towards the annual subscription if I do this since I would have 2 DVRs (each requires a sub, right?) and don't want to shell out another $1000 up front.


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## Marc (Jun 26, 1999)

jr461 said:


> It sounds like this would work just fine, however, the HBO/Cinemax difficulty sounds like a pain. Is it just a matter of getting a Verizon tech support agent on the phone?


It's about using the right keywords to the Verizon agent so they can go into the correct part of their system to properly pair the CableCARD with the TiVo. The magic words are (or, at least, were) "manually validate", otherwise they merely activate the CableCARD and don't pair it.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Marc said:


> It's about using the right keywords to the Verizon agent so they can go into the correct part of their system to properly pair the CableCARD with the TiVo. The magic words are (or, at least, were) "manually validate", otherwise they merely activate the CableCARD and don't pair it.


Last time I paired my cable cards (with the Roamio), I did it over the chat line.... It was very smooth.



> Is there an order to setting up multiple Roamio DVRs (I've read about some bad experiences with Quantum if a specific procedure wasn't followed).
> 
> I guess I'm leaning towards the annual subscription if I do this since I would have 2 DVRs (each requires a sub, right?) and don't want to shell out another $1000 up front.


No special order to do this in, each full TiVo is independent in its own right.

I understand why you are thinking you need a second TiVo, and why you want to go with an annual sub - and your reasoning is valid -but I am going to make one last effort to push my 2 cents! 

You will get better value out of a single TiVo with lifetime than two TiVo's with monthly subscription.

*First - the use-case that it isn't necessary to have multiple TiVo's:*

- The Roamio Pro has 6 Tuners
- The Mini only uses a tuner when asked to view Live TV. 
- The TiVo DVR does not have a common NPL 
- Season Passes and Actual recordings are linked to the specific TiVo

*Second - the argument for Lifetime over Monthly service*

- Monthly subscription for a TiVo is $15 a month and lifetime service is $400. In 26 months you will recoup the cost of the lifetime service
- Once you pay the lifetime service, you pay no additional fees to TiVo
- Value of a used unsubbed TiVo is quite low - tops, $50 for a Premiere gen device
- Value of a used lifetime TiVo is very good - $500 for a Premiere gen device. 
- TiVo's are very stable devices and generally last for YEARS! Replacing a hard drive if necessary is as simple as plug and play.

My humble recommendation? Get a single TiVo Roamio Plus with lifetime with your 4 Mini's - see how that setup works for you. If you find you need more Tuners you can add a second TiVo (Maybe a used Premiere) later... With your current plan, you are simply shifting your monthly fee from one company to another.


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## jr461 (Jul 9, 2004)

bradleys said:


> Last time I paired my cable cards (with the Roamio), I did it over the chat line.... It was very smooth.
> 
> No special order to do this in, each full TiVo is independent in its own right.
> 
> ...


Your points are definitely valid, but I don't think they will all work for me.

My concern with the 6 tuners is not having them available when needed, unless I'm misunderstanding how it works. I'm thinking that if 3 TVs (minis) are watching live, I can watch live on the DVR and record 2 shows (or record 3 shows and watch nothing else live). Don't know what an NPL is.

My son watches a LOT of live sports, as do I. At any given time 2 tuners, maybe 3, are watching live (depends what my wife is watching). This leaves only 2-3 for recording which will not be sufficient on some nights.

So now we are back to the amount to shell out up front. I don't need a Pro, so 2 pluses is $800 and 3 minis is $450. I am not going for another $1000 for lifetime, therefore 2 annual service subscriptions is $280, or $1530 all in. This pays for itself in a year and a half.

I did notice that Amazon is considerably less, at $350 per Plus and $131 per mini, or $1090 for the hardware. Then the 2 annuals brings it to $1370.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

The best long-term deal is to give a reasonable offer to Spherular on ebay. (search for "tivo promo discount").

With his coupon you can get 2 Plusses for $1200 that includes Lifetime, and then you can get the 3 Mini's on Amazon for $131. That's $1593 including lifetime service on everything, no fees ever, and highly resellable in the future if you wish to upgrade or move on.

But whatever options you go with, Tivo is an upgrade. Fios + Tivo = Happy Times.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> Everyone doesn't have the internet connection over Coax. WHen I got FiOS in 2007 I specifically got an Ethernet connection so I wouldn't need to use the crappy FIOS supplied routers. I have five of them gathering dust in my closet. For some reason FiOS keeps sending them to me. I tried to send one back once and that turned into a long ordeal. And in the end it still wasn't sent back. So now, whenever I receive a new router, it just goes on the ever growing pile of Actiontec routers in a closet.


Even Ethernet installations would have MoCA LAN unless they're using an absolutely ancient router, or a non-Verizon router, in which case hopefully they are smart enough to realize that they don't have MoCA LAN.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Bigg said:


> Even Ethernet installations would have MoCA LAN unless they're using an absolutely ancient router, or a non-Verizon router, in which case hopefully they are smart enough to realize that they don't have MoCA LAN.


You only need a MoCA LAN if you are using a FiOS STB.


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## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> You only need a MoCA LAN if you are using a FiOS STB.


True but Verizon won't do an installation without it. They did an Ethernet installation for me but also did the moca setup as well. Though that was almost 10 years ago and I no longer use their router.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> You only need a MoCA LAN if you are using a FiOS STB.


Correct. But my point is that anyone who has the Verizon router has MoCA LAN, and anyone who managed to use their own router should be smart enough to realize that they don't have MoCA LAN.


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