# Anyword on new HD channels, mainly what and WHEN?



## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

I keep hearing 2nd half of 2007 (once the new bird is launched) which it is that Directv will start offering more HD channels. Well I hope so. Even though I have a Tivo HD model I want MORE HD channels. Does anyone have an inside scoop, knowledge of when we can maybe expect some new channels popping up?


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

NatasNJ said:


> I keep hearing 2nd half of 2007 (once the new bird is launched) which it is that Directv will start offering more HD channels. Well I hope so. Even though I have a Tivo HD model I want MORE HD channels. Does anyone have an inside scoop, knowledge of when we can maybe expect some new channels popping up?


Well, if you've only got Tivo boxes, I'm afraid the wait will be sometime since DirecTV has launched a satellite that will only be used for the mepg4 datastream and that requires one of DirecTV's home-grown boxes. None of the DTivos will be able to pick up the new signals.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

RS4 said:


> Well, if you've only got Tivo boxes, I'm afraid the wait will be sometime since DirecTV has launched a satellite that will only be used for the mepg4 datastream and that requires one of DirecTV's home-grown boxes. None of the DTivos will be able to pick up the new signals.


I will get a new DVR but just want NEW CHANNELS!


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## joelq (Oct 9, 2006)

NatasNJ said:


> Does anyone have an inside scoop, knowledge of when we can maybe expect some new channels popping up?


Consensus is 70 additional HD channels by the end of September this year, followed by an additional 30 by the end of the year. Apparently this was mentioned during DirecTV's 2nd Quarter Investor Conference Call.

But as RS4 mentioned, you won't be able to get these channels unless you have one of the new MPEG-4 DirecTV receivers.


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

Last week they again committed to 70 HD channels in September and 100 by year's end. The satellite is up and users have gotten signals on previously quiet tranponders from the new 103. It is there and it is doing it's tests.

These contract delivery dates have been announced publicly...

There are the 14 Current National HD Channels
HBO East
Showtime East
ESPN HD
ESPN2 HD
Discovery HD Theater
HDNet
HDNet Movies
TNT in HD
Universal HD
HD PPV
ABC (75%, local, 10% national feed waivers)
CBS (75% local, 10% national feed waivers)
NBC (75% local, 10% national feed waivers)
Fox (75% local, 10% national feed waivers)

24 Contracts Require Delivery in September
A&E HD
Animal Planet 
Cinemax East
Cinemax West
Chiller HD
CNBC HD
Discovery Channel 
HBO East 
HBO2 East
HBO West
HBO2 West
HBO Family East
HBO Family West
HBO Latino
HBO Signature
MoreMax
TLC
The Science Channel
Starz East
Starz West
Starz Edge
Starz Comedy
Starz Kids & Family
The History Channel HD

That's a total of 38 HD Channels if you are keeping score contracted for availability in Sept. that have been stated publicly.

21 Contracted 2007 Deliveries not promised as September Delivery:
ABC Family
Big Ten Network
Bravo
Cartoon Network
CNBC
CNN
ESPNNEWS HD
Food Network
FX
HGTV
MTV
National Geographic
NFL Network
SciFi Channel
Showtime West
Speed
TBS
The Tennis Channel
The Weather Channel
USA Network
Versus HD

So that is 59 named HD channels promised for this year.

Add in the 10+ RSN's in HD and we found 69 of the promised 100 channels for 2007.

Also they have stated that they will offer the following channels but we have heard they may not arrive until 2008:
Disney Channel
Discovery Health
Discovery Military
Toon Disney

We are still only at 73 HD Channels.

We know that there are at least 30 other HD channels are already being broadcast or announced but not promised by DIRECTV. Those remain to be seen.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

Of these I wonder how many are really going to have high definition content? Most of the time ESPN and ESPN2 have a standard definition frame embeded with a high definition frame.


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

ESPN and ESPN2 do broadcast games and other programs in full HD right now. 

We watch the Cubs when they are on 73 in HD. We saw a great HD Cubs game on 73 this weekend.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

rminsk said:


> Of these I wonder how many are really going to have high definition content? Most of the time ESPN and ESPN2 have a standard definition frame embeded with a high definition frame.


Uh huh. I wouldn't suppose Chiller has deep enough pockets to re-telecine all of those old "Rockford Files" and "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" (-ses). And I still don't see FX anywhere. Looks like "The Shield" will be cancelled before HD ever hits. I want to see Vic Mackey run through a wall and smash a guy's face into a stove burner in High Definition, dammit!


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## MisterEd (Jun 6, 2001)

Now I don't feel too bad keeping my HR10-250. Other then Nat'l Geo there is nothing there I care about. No FX. Fortunatly I get all my locals off-air.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Here's an interesting thread on DBSTalk.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=87235


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

Here are some of the key official press releases:

DIRECTV to Offer 11 HBO/Cinemax Channels in HD

DIRECTV Adds New HD Channels for Fall; Four Discovery HD Channels, Five Starz HD 

DIRECTV First to Launch The History Channel HD (THC HD) Set to Debut in September 2007

DIRECTV to Offer 100 National HD Channels in 2007

FX is promised for 2007 but not specifically promised for September.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

MisterEd said:


> Now I don't feel too bad keeping my HR10-250. Other then Nat'l Geo there is nothing there I care about...


+1


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

i may have to just keep this thread on sub so i dont have to go over to the dark side so often


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## garywj (May 3, 2005)

I guess DIRECTV has never heard of PBS!


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Wot? No TrinityHD???


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## LlamaLarry (Apr 30, 2003)

rminsk said:


> Of these I wonder how many are really going to have high definition content? Most of the time ESPN and ESPN2 have a standard definition frame embeded with a high definition frame.


Yeah, this is a little confusing, if DirecTV is counting "SD content from the source, but not as manhandled by us thanks to the new pipe" as HD, then I have even less incentive to go to the DirecTV DVR.

I have never looked into HD any place else, but if HBO has HBO-HD then wouldn't that mean that all of their other channels are not being sent out by them in HD?


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

garywj said:


> I guess DIRECTV has never heard of PBS!


Yes... they have heard of PBS... and the PBS will ultimately be added as part of the HD-LIL expansion when both of the SATs are up and are functional.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

all subchannels of PBS ? 

and i'd miss the Tube on 17-2 in philly if i didnt have OTA.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

newsposter said:


> all subchannels of PBS ?
> 
> and i'd miss the Tube on 17-2 in philly if i didnt have OTA.


Don't know...

Here in Chicago, the Tube is a sub-channel of WGN

Maybe they should just get their own channel....


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## John Silver (Feb 7, 2002)

At what point will Directv consider high def as standard and not start grouping them into a High Definition package? Will you need to get the Hi Def package to see these new channels? Example: I have HBO and locals (national feeds) now in high def and I'm not paying for a high def package. As the new stations come on, which will be available in a high def package only?


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## hoopsrgreat (Jan 2, 2005)

So right now the RSN are spot beamed to certain areas, when these are offered from the new satelite, will these then be available to all of us in that RSN area. 

I get Fox sports net Bay Area in SD, but not in HD due to the spot beam. Will I get it in HD starting whenever???


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

hoopsrgreat said:


> So right now the RSN are spot beamed to certain areas, when these are offered from the new satelite, will these then be available to all of us in that RSN area.
> 
> I get Fox sports net Bay Area in SD, but not in HD due to the spot beam. Will I get it in HD starting whenever???


My understanding is that yes the RSN HDs will be available to anyone eligible for the SD versions after the new sat is up and the RSNs are moved off the spot beams.


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## scooby_doo_53 (Jul 19, 2004)

bigpuma said:


> My understanding is that yes the RSN HDs will be available to anyone eligible for the SD versions after the new sat is up and the RSNs are moved off the spot beams.


I guess I have to ask a stupid question here, but I have never understood the "spot beams" for the RSN's. I have always subscribed to the "Sports Package", so I have always received the RSN's from around the country. Thus, since I am here in Denver, why do I receive those networks if they are truly "spot beamed"?


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

scooby_doo_53 said:


> I guess I have to ask a stupid question here, but I have never understood the "spot beams" for the RSN's. I have always subscribed to the "Sports Package", so I have always received the RSN's from around the country. Thus, since I am here in Denver, why do I receive those networks if they are truly "spot beamed"?


The SD versions are not spot beamed, just the HD versions. You can receive the SD versions from around the country but not the HD versions, that is until they move them to the new satelite. Then I assume if you subscribe to the sports pack you will also get the HD versions minus black outs just like the SD version.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

John Silver said:


> At what point will Directv consider high def as standard and not start grouping them into a High Definition package? Will you need to get the Hi Def package to see these new channels? Example: I have HBO and locals (national feeds) now in high def and I'm not paying for a high def package. As the new stations come on, which will be available in a high def package only?


You are grandfathered in...

Anyone new, or someone that didn't already have the packages.... will need the HD package.

You will need the HD package to access ANY HD content (even if it also requires a seperate package such as HBO)...

Superfan, and some of the sports packages may be the exception.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

so basically a new sub that only cares about HBO HD but not the other channels will pay HBOs charge plus forced to pay the HD fee right?

i guess it's moot though since my understanding is when you get a new HD receiver you MUST pay the HD price right? (which would have sucked for me because I didnt have HDTV when i got my first HDtivo even)


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

newsposter said:


> so basically a new sub that only cares about HBO HD but not the other channels will pay HBOs charge plus forced to pay the HD fee right?
> 
> i guess it's moot though since my understanding is when you get a new HD receiver you MUST pay the HD price right? (which would have sucked for me because I didnt have HDTV when i got my first HDtivo even)


Yes, that is correct.
If you want HD at all... you will have to have the HD Package, including HD Locals.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

LlamaLarry said:


> Yeah, this is a little confusing, if DirecTV is counting "SD content from the source, but not as manhandled by us thanks to the new pipe" as HD, then I have even less incentive to go to the DirecTV DVR.


The actual HD content will vary by channel. That is controlled by the channel and is true for cable or anyone else. However, even SD on an HD channel looks a heck of a lot better than SD on an SD channel. (Unless it is TNT-stretched, that is.)



LlamaLarry said:


> I have never looked into HD any place else, but if HBO has HBO-HD then wouldn't that mean that all of their other channels are not being sent out by them in HD?


All the HBO channels are going HD and DirecTV has announced they will have the HD versions of the SD HBOs they currently carry.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> However, even SD on an HD channel looks a heck of a lot better than SD on an SD channel.


Huh? It is the same original signal and it looks the same to my eyes. I guess if they are using less compression because of the more bandwidth devoted to the HD channel it could look better.


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

rminsk said:


> Huh? It is the same original signal and it looks the same to my eyes.


It doesn't though. The HD channels get more bandwidth so the SD image isn't as compressed as it is on the SD channels, which get less bandwidth.

tk


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

pendragn said:


> It doesn't though. The HD channels get more bandwidth so the SD image isn't as compressed as it is on the SD channels, which get less bandwidth.
> 
> tk


That's very true, and is a contributor. But the larger contributor is the degradation that SD goes through typically in the legacy analog chain. The worst offender to PQ is when analog content gets degraded BEFORE it is encoded, which happens a lot with SD channels on DBS (many of the locals are received OTA by DTV and processed as analog first).

Good (undegraded) SD is often indistinguishable from HD at first. Ignoring aspect ratios, there is but one thing (resolution) that makes it different from SD. Unfortunately, most SD is NOT good SD, and brings with it a lot of degradation beyond resolution issues, which is why SD is usually instantly recognizable as being not HD, especially on DBS.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

rminsk said:


> Huh? It is the same original signal and it looks the same to my eyes. I guess if they are using less compression because of the more bandwidth devoted to the HD channel it could look better.


you definitely dont have OTA setup. Or are not watching it (i assume the same applies to mpeg4 locals but i dont have them so dont know).

I watch things like survivor, simpsons, deal no deal etc on my OTA, it is a vastly superior pic quality to the directv local SD. I keep saying i'll take screenshots to prove it to people and maybe this weekend i actually will and post them so you can see what you are missing.

I have crt rptv but assume the same increase in PQ would show on other technologies. Once you go to the other channel, you wont watch anything on dtvs crappy sd locals ever again.


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

TyroneShoes said:


> That's very true, and is a contributor. But the larger contributor is the degradation that SD goes through typically in the legacy analog chain. The worst offender to PQ is when analog content gets degraded BEFORE it is encoded, which happens a lot with SD channels on DBS (many of the locals are received OTA by DTV and processed as analog first).


Here's a true story, and I why I'm sticking to my guns about it being a bandwidth issue. Last season the mighty Iowa State Cyclones were playing football and I was watching it. We get the locals, in SD, from DirecTV. The game looked horrible. Very fuzzy, very compressed. During a commercial break I switched over to the Distant Network Station of the same network to see how it looked. That channel is HD, but the game was only SD. It looked 100% better and we ended up watching the Iowa State game on the New York channel instead of the Des Moines one for the rest of the day. The source for both was the same, the network feed. The only difference I know of is the amount of bandwidth the local networks get (very little) and the amount of bandwidth the HD DNS stations get (much more).

tk


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

MisterEd said:


> Now I don't feel too bad keeping my HR10-250. Other then Nat'l Geo there is nothing there I care about ... Fortunately I get all my locals off-air.


The channels listed here are only the tip of the iceberg. DirecTV has great surprises in store. Shopping channels, religious channels (God in HiDef is awesome!), more Starz variations (Starz North Pole Time Zone), I heard there's a channel showing grass growing 24/7. Also, an envanovich channel where he provides the latest gossip straight from the DirecTV Marketing Department ladies room.


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## cancan (Nov 29, 2003)

Redux said:


> The channels listed here are only the tip of the iceberg. DirecTV has great surprises in store. Shopping channels, religious channels (God in HiDef is awesome!), more Starz variations (Starz North Pole Time Zone), I heard there's a channel showing grass growing 24/7. Also, an envanovich channel where he provides the latest gossip straight from the DirecTV Marketing Department ladies room.


And all that for just an extra $9.99 a month?


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Redux said:


> Also, an envanovich channel where he provides the latest gossip straight from the DirecTV Marketing Department ladies room.


Not sure if that was a jab at me.... but either way...

If you have seen some of the ladies in DirecTV Marketing Department...
I am 100% comfortable with that job.....


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## firket2000 (Jul 30, 2007)

I had a friend that just got an HD package from DTV and was told that the new HD channels would go live on September 17th


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

pendragn said:


> Here's a true story, and I why I'm sticking to my guns about it being a bandwidth issue...We get the locals, in SD, from DirecTV. The game looked horrible... I switched over to the Distant Network Station ... That channel is HD, but the game was only SD. It looked 100% better...The source for both was the same, the network feed. The only difference I know of is the amount of bandwidth the local networks get (very little) and the amount of bandwidth the HD DNS stations get (much more).
> 
> tk


That's the only difference you know, only because you apparently didn't read my earlier post. There are a lot of differences, and some are much more significant.

In the first place, the HD feed and the SD feed TO the station are two completely different feeds. Both have exceptional quality, and the HD feed has a different aspect ratio and higher resolution. The reason they have exceptional quality is because both have plenty of bandwidth, for one thing. Bandwidth (or lack of it) itself is not what makes DBS SD LIL look bad. What makes it look bad is heavy compression of a signal that is already degraded by being picked up OTA first, and then funneled through questionable paths to the DBS uplink.

Imagine how much smaller the bandwidth is for a download of a SD program on iTunes, which is certainly much less than even SD DBS. Those programs look very good, even blown up on a larger TV, compared to SD DBS. So bandwidth isn't really the important factor. In the case of iPod downloads, the source is pristine SD and is converted to a file not in real time, so the conversion process is not really impacted by bandwidth. But the file size and the streaming bit rate definitely are delivered in a severely-restricted bandwidth, yet typically look much better than SD DBS LIL channels generally do.


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

Tyrone,

Our HD channels have been every bit as good as our OTA. 

Right now we are watching the Cubs on ESPN channel 73 and it is just stunning. HBO, TNT, HDNet, all of the locals, and the others are really great for us.

Which HD channels are you having problems with? What TV do you have?

- Craig


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## CessnaDriver (Oct 25, 2003)

MisterEd said:


> Now I don't feel too bad keeping my HR10-250. Other then Nat'l Geo there is nothing there I care about. No FX. Fortunatly I get all my locals off-air.


FX is listed as being HD by the end of 2007


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

milominderbinder said:


> Our HD channels have been every bit as good as our OTA.


A company I work with does free hearing tests, a rather precise analysis, for all employees no matter where they work.

When I am cornered to advise somebody on a new big home audio system, I suggest they first take that test. Frequently makes the chore a _lot_ easier.


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

Redux,

What are your audio problems? Is it with Dolby 5.1? HDMI out? What channels?

- Craig


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## caunguyen (Aug 26, 2004)

ANybody knows how much will cost to see these new HD channels. Are they part of the HD package for the same price? Or DTV will force you to order all of them with a price increase like they did with the local channel? 

CN


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

caunguyen said:


> ANybody knows how much will cost to see these new HD channels. Are they part of the HD package for the same price? Or DTV will force you to order all of them with a price increase like they did with the local channel?
> 
> CN


DirecTV has said the cost would remain the same.


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