# Upcoming Android TV, FireTV, AppleTV and Roku apps



## ric hardt (Jan 9, 2019)

Yes I know these aren't out yet but just wondering if there was some technical reason they couldn't playback streams from Tivo same as Mini without transcoding? I understand that not all streaming devices are mpeg2 capable however a lot are fully capable including current 4k FireTV stick, Nvidia Shield and maybe even new Roku? This would improve the end user picture quality as no transcoding would be necessary. Anyone know why this isn't being implemented? Ted?


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## lucidrenegade (Aug 21, 2013)

ric hardt said:


> Yes I know these aren't out yet but just wondering if there was some technical reason they couldn't playback streams from Tivo same as Mini without transcoding? I understand that not all streaming devices are mpeg2 capable however a lot are fully capable including current 4k FireTV stick, Nvidia Shield and maybe even new Roku? This would improve the end user picture quality as no transcoding would be necessary. Anyone know why this isn't being implemented? Ted?


I asked this same question in a reply to Ted's post about the apps and never got a response.


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## ric hardt (Jan 9, 2019)

Maybe for non-technical reasons it's a complex issue? I can understand Tivo wanting to sell more Mini's but honestly when you can plug in a FireTV stick to a TV mounted on the wall, why deal with an external STB? Current Fire TV stick and many other streaming devices can decode mpeg2 so I don't see why there would be a limitation. Would love to get Ted's input on this topic.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Ted visits almost daily, but hasn't posted in a month.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

ric hardt said:


> Maybe for non-technical reasons it's a complex issue? I can understand Tivo wanting to sell more Mini's but honestly when you can plug in a FireTV stick to a TV mounted on the wall, why deal with an external STB? Current Fire TV stick and many other streaming devices can decode mpeg2 so I don't see why there would be a limitation. Would love to get Ted's input on this topic.


The experience you get from a Mini is almost certainly going to be better than anything that you could get from a streaming stick.


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## ric hardt (Jan 9, 2019)

I don't mean to go off into a tangential however I respectfully disagree. If you are referring to the "experience" solely as a DVR, yes the Tivo Mini will always be preferable as it fully replicates the Tivo "experience" (including the remote) however that comes at the expense of the user "experience" as the Tivo Mini's capabilities are far less capable as an internet streaming device. Streaming devices capable of decoding mpeg2 may not be able to replicate Tivo Mini trick play or ease of navigating through content however they are absolutely fully able to view mpeg2 recorded content natively without additional transcoding with the exact same picture quality as a Mini. As we are always trying out new things, I've tested Channels DVR and there is no issue with playback or navigation of native mpeg2 live or recorded TV content with the Fire TV stick. All I am asking is why don't the new apps running on devices capable of decoding mpeg2 access the Tivo without transcoding? I would not think DRM is an issue on devices with appropriate certification and it would not be an issue at all for OTA content.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

ric hardt said:


> I don't mean to go off into a tangential however I respectfully disagree. If you are referring to the "experience" solely as a DVR, yes the Tivo Mini will always be preferable as it fully replicates the Tivo "experience" (including the remote) however that comes at the expense of the user "experience" as the Tivo Mini's capabilities are far less capable as an internet streaming device. Streaming devices capable of decoding mpeg2 may not be able to replicate Tivo Mini trick play or ease of navigating through content however they are absolutely fully able to view mpeg2 recorded content natively without additional transcoding with the exact same picture quality as a Mini. As we are always trying out new things, I've tested Channels DVR and there is no issue with playback or navigation of native mpeg2 live or recorded TV content with the Fire TV stick. All I am asking is why don't the new apps running on devices capable of decoding mpeg2 access the Tivo without transcoding? I would not think DRM is an issue on devices with appropriate certification and it would not be an issue at all for OTA content.


I can think of many possible answers.

1) $$$. Both they want to sell more MInis and it probably costs them money to implement, test and support MPEG2 streaming to non-Tivo devices. They already had the ability to stream to mobile devices so they just use that. Also why develop a feature which they don't even support for their MInis?

2) Few care. Does the average customer care? Doubt it. Which leads back to answer #1. Why spend the money.

3) Average customer experience. HOw many customers can reliably wirelessly stream mpeg2 to their Firestick device stuck in the back of their from the Tivo that may be in some other room? Isn't mpeg2 fairly inefficient? Tivo doesn't even support wirelessly streaming to their Minis. And this leads back to #1 which is why spend the money.

4) Have you seen the pace of release of Tivo features over the years? It's not fast. They aren't selling millions of Tivos every year. IT's tens of thousand at best I think. They have to prioritize which leads back #1 and #2 and #3.


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## ric hardt (Jan 9, 2019)

1. I agree with your opinion that the likely reasoning is the desire to sell more Minis. No one is suggesting they develop new streaming protocols, the Fire TV or Android TV app would just access the same mpeg2 streams as the Mini.

2. Average customer? I honestly don't know. I would hope you'd agree the market is rapidly shifting and the Tivo model of central DVR with satellite proprietary clients is rapidly losing appeal and market share, not just to online streaming services but to other competing DVR products. Would a product like Tablo TV even exist had TiVo developed a better streaming platform? Forcing customers to buy more Mini's is not a recipe for sucess. IMHO TiVo is the premiere DVR however it's weakness is the inability to integrate with other devices. Hopefully the new streaming apps will bridge that gap. What I'm proposing is not major re-engineering rather it would mean the app has option to receive the same full resolution non transcoded stream as the Mini.

3. I used to share your reservation about wireless streaming and wanted all my connected devices to be hard wired however that recently changed. The 40 dollar Fire TV stick has zero issues streaming mpeg2 live or recorded content. Didn't TiVo just release a wireless bridge which is sending mpeg2 over wifi? 

4. I agree with your assessment of pace of development and sales. Most of us here hopefully want to see TiVo succeed, which does not mean continuing the status quo. My suggestion for a TiVo app accessing the same streams as the Mini should not be viewed a threat rather it would be complementary.


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## RyanL (Apr 28, 2019)

Any word on the release date yet for Rokus?


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## mrizzo80 (Apr 17, 2012)

RyanL said:


> Any word on the release date yet for Rokus?


Not that I've heard. FireTV is due first, then Roku, then Apple TV. FireTV isn't out yet, and I haven't even heard rumblings of a beta. But I've never participated in a TiVo beta, so I'm not sure if we'd know when the beta starts.


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## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

RyanL said:


> Any word on the release date yet for Rokus?


Back in January (at CES) Ted said "Q2/Q3," so anytime between now and September. Experience tells me to expect September. Or maybe Christmas.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

ric hardt said:


> Yes I know these aren't out yet but just wondering if there was some technical reason they couldn't playback streams from Tivo same as Mini without transcoding? I understand that not all streaming devices are mpeg2 capable however a lot are fully capable including current 4k FireTV stick, Nvidia Shield and maybe even new Roku? This would improve the end user picture quality as no transcoding would be necessary. Anyone know why this isn't being implemented? Ted?


Mini requires wired Ethernet (or MoCA). Wireless might not be an issue for systems which heavily compress but might be for systems/channels with higher quality.

AFAIK all program sources (Netflix, Amazon,....)for streaming devices have the ability to lower picture quality if necessary. I've that's a requirement for some streaming sticks. I don't know if Netflix trans codes on the fly or has multiple versions of the same movie, at different bitrates, ready to stream. An app for a streaming device has to have the ability to adjust picture quality (transcode) as needed.

One poster, I don't remember who, said Apple has (had?) a requirement requiring a fall back to audio only if necessary.

How about the option to CAST from our mobile device to a chromecast enabled TV? Airplay for apple?


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## jkudlacz (Jan 21, 2009)

Anything new on the Radar? Need that app badly lol.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

jkudlacz said:


> Anything new on the Radar? Need that app badly lol.


We know that two different pay TV providers (Service Electric and RCN) are supposed to be deploying IPTV systems any day now that use the new "TiVo Next-Gen Platform". And part of that platform is "TiVo for Streamers," which means the upcoming apps for Apple TV, Roku, Fire TV and Android TV. So...soon?

(Although it's possible that Service Electric and RCN roll out the platform now on their own boxes, which both plan to do, and not give their customers the option to use their own streamers for the IPTV service until the apps appear in a few months.)


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

[QUOTE="lew, post: 11775647, member: 19266")
How about the option to CAST from our mobile device to a chromecast enabled TV? Airplay for apple?[/QUOTE]
The TiVo app doesn't support Airplay, don't know about chrome cast.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

After Amazon’s shipment debacle, I have now received my Fire TV 4K stick from the Prime Day sale.

So, TiVo, you may now release your Fire TV app!


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Joe3 said:


> As far as picture quality-
> 
> They do care and notice. The false assumption they don't is a very old canard, repeated to give it credibility by appealing to magic thinking and has become a tiresome cliche. However, it is true that most people may not know why their TV is not as sharp on one channel as opposed to another, but they notice and prefer the best picture over a "crappie" looking one. This goes to the fact that costumers are conditioned and educated to naturally expect what they paid for and don't much care what the sellers bottom line is once they pay.


weird I never once mentioned picture quality. 

The line you're referring to was about the average customer caring whether or not something is transcoded or not ie caring what the underlying tech behind the picture is. They don't.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

pfiagra said:


> After Amazon's shipment debacle, I have now received my Fire TV 4K stick from the Prime Day sale.
> 
> So, TiVo, you may now release your Fire TV app!


There is a sort of "app" already: You can use miracast to put your phone screen on a firestick display (at least it works for my samsung galaxy s9+), you just have to spend a half a day on google finding where they hid the controls to enable casting on the firestick and start casting on the phone (and they are well hidden).


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

tomhorsley said:


> There is a sort of "app" already: You can use miracast to put your phone screen on a firestick display (at least it works for my samsung galaxy s9+), you just have to spend a half a day on google finding where they hid the controls to enable casting on the firestick and start casting on the phone (and they are well hidden).


Sounds like a "pain in the app"


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## jkudlacz (Jan 21, 2009)

Any news on Tivo App? I found this on Tivo website but looks like currently this is ONLY available for Enterprise Clients not regular customers like us. I am actually borderline on Tivo lately, if this app becomes available soon this would get me over the Edge - get it. TiVo for Android TV | TiVo


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## kiadontknow (Jun 8, 2018)

No updates for months. The problem is that as soon as the apps are released, there is no reason to buy a Tivo Mini. Tivo mini are also overpriced at $170, That's enough for a AppleTv4k if you're rich or a $50 for a Firestick\Roku. 

IMO, the streams are also much better quality then cable, so I've been using FitzTV for my television watching lately.


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## jkudlacz (Jan 21, 2009)

kiadontknow said:


> No updates for months. The problem is that as soon as the apps are released, there is no reason to buy a Tivo Mini. Tivo mini are also overpriced at $170, That's enough for a AppleTv4k if you're rich or a $50 for a Firestick\Roku.
> 
> IMO, the streams are also much better quality then cable, so I've been using FitzTV for my television watching lately.


Well thing is if users don't subscribe to Tivo service then selling few extra minis won't help Tivo much, at lease with the app they will be able to sell Tivo Edge or Tivo Bolt and keep subscriber base from shrinking and maybe even grow. To be honest I am watching less TV than ever these days and use various apps/streaming services to watch new shows. I still record some soccer but with Bundesliga moving over to ESPN+ (bye bye FOX) I will no longer have a need for Cable subscription really. I could get few channels over the air and have Disney + serve kids needs. I can't even get Disney + on Tivo and with Amazon Fire TV being super cheap I just can't justify getting Mini or even keeping Tivo Service lately. Even Apple TV is now available on Amazon Fire TV. Eh sorry for the rant I just feel TIVO is really forgetting about loyal customers and instead of making things easier for us they keep moving in opposite direction.


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## mbernste (Apr 6, 2003)

Why release a free or low-cost TV/smart device app when you can make $250 selling a TiVo Mini Vox and USB wi-fi 5 adapter?


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

mbernste said:


> Why release a free or low-cost TV/smart device app when you can make $250 selling a TiVo Mini Vox and USB wi-fi 5 adapter?


Hardly anyone is going to buy into the TiVo ecosystem because of the high cost of clients. Especially with the multitude of low-cost streamers "spoiling" the market. And they create a market for TiVo... purchase your TiVo and start viewing around your entire house with your existing clients.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

Charles R said:


> Hardly anyone is going to buy into the TiVo ecosystem because of the high cost of clients. Especially with the multitude of low-cost streamers "spoiling" the market. And they create a market for TiVo... purchase your TiVo and start viewing around your entire house with your existing clients.


Then, to be even more profitable, get frustrated with how badly the app works (or doesn't work) that you say "screw it!" and buy a mini


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

tomhorsley said:


> Then, to be even more profitable, get frustrated with how badly the app works (or doesn't work) that you say "screw it!" and buy a mini


I think you mean Amazon Recast.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

kiadontknow said:


> No updates for months. The problem is that as soon as the apps are released, there is no reason to buy a Tivo Mini. Tivo mini are also overpriced at $170, That's enough for a AppleTv4k if you're rich or a $50 for a Firestick\Roku.


Assuming the app is going to give you a similar experience to the mobile app, I would disagree that there's no reason to buy a Mini. I would much rather have the Mini with the standard TiVo experience and capabilities.

Scott


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

I assume the Tivo app will not be able to allocate a tuner from the host DVR so you would have to start a recording on the host dvr to watch live tv. I think a common use case for the mini is to watch the news or late night talk show in bed and fall asleep. You'd have to watch the previous day's recordings with the app, or manually start a recording on the host DVR before going to bed.

But if you don't care about watching live TV, the bolt could feed two other viewing areas and the Roamio pro/plus could feed 4 other viewing areas at no extra cost.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

It's already been mentioned here that the Roku/Fire apps (if they ever see the light of day) will not be a full replacement for a Mini.


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## heyadam (Apr 25, 2019)

Don't count on it @jkulacz. To paraphrase the popular saying, don't set your clocks to TiVo. Unfortunately, I spent two years waiting for Google Assistant support announced January 2018 at CES by TiVo and that did NOT happen. Then, it was a new Xfinity app, HBO GO support for Comcast, Roku and Android TV apps, BS pre-recording ads, TiVo+--the list goes on. So, I just sold my TiVo equipment and bailed out. Two years of missing promised features and deadlines come and gone. That seems to be the TiVo reality. :-(


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## RyanL (Apr 28, 2019)

mrizzo80 said:


> Not that I've heard. FireTV is due first, then Roku, then Apple TV. FireTV isn't out yet, and I haven't even heard rumblings of a beta. But I've never participated in a TiVo beta, so I'm not sure if we'd know when the beta starts.





OrangeCrush said:


> Back in January (at CES) Ted said "Q2/Q3," so anytime between now and September. Experience tells me to expect September. Or maybe Christmas.


Well Christmas came and went but still no apps for the FireTV or Roku lol. Doubt they're coming at all at this point.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

TiVo has a history of announcing things at CES that never happen. Going all the way back to the early days when the first showed off HME apps and announced a partnership with You Don't Know Jack that never materialized. There have been many, many, since and they just keep doing it.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)




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## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

jkudlacz said:


> Well thing is if users don't subscribe to Tivo service then selling few extra minis won't help Tivo much


About that . . .

What is this "service" TiVo provides for $15 or so a month? Guide data doesn't cost nearly that much--I can get a subscription XML feed myself for around $25/year as an individual. A corporation can likely negotiate a much better rate. Where's the rest of the money going? It ain't product improvements, certainly not on those apps they showed off that never materialized. And it's not getting pumped in to new content production for TiVo+. That all looks like bargain bin garbage available on many other free ad-supported streaming services.

The only justification for TiVo's fees I can think of is that the cable companies get away with worse for the equipment they provide. Usually a rental fee for the actual DVR box and then an extra $15 - $20 "service fee" for the privilege of using said boxes.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

"upcoming" in this thread title is kind of like how Jewish people believe that the Messiah will come one day. We believe it's in the future, but it would be absurd to plan on it coming at any particular time.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> TiVo has a history of announcing things at CES that never happen. Going all the way back to the early days when the first showed off HME apps and announced a partnership with You Don't Know Jack that never materialized. There have been many, many, since and they just keep doing it.


thanks for the info/perspective. I didn't realize they'd done this before.

this is extra frustrating to me as those would be super useful, and they appeared finished a full year ago. Maybe actually beta, but they looked done save for Bug fixing.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> TiVo has a history of announcing things at CES that never happen. Going all the way back to the early days when the first showed off HME apps and announced a partnership with You Don't Know Jack that never materialized. There have been many, many, since and they just keep doing it.


But the thing about the TiVo apps for Apple TV, Roku, etc. is that they have been advertised by TiVo to their pay TV partners as a way for their customers to extend the platform onto additional screens.

Next-Gen Platform | TiVo

It's one thing for TiVo to announce vaporware for their retail customers but another when it's something that's part of a package they're supposed to deliver as part of their B2B agreements.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Whoa...yikes. Didn’t know that. 
I love how they’re talking like they offer things to businesses that afawk are just vaporware lol


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Puppy76 said:


> thanks for the info/perspective. I didn't realize they'd done this before.
> 
> this is extra frustrating to me as those would be super useful, and they appeared finished a full year ago. Maybe actually beta, but they looked done save for Bug fixing.


I think the biggest issue with apps for these devices is that they typically require H.264 encoding with progressive frames. Broadcast TV is typically MPEG-2 with interlaced frames. Now there are some apps that get around this by doing CPU decoding instead of hardware based decoding, like the VLC player or Kodi, but it taxes the system pretty hard and only some systems can handle it. Which means for TiVo they'd either have to transcode on the fly, like they do for mobile streaming, which does't provide the best experience or do software based decoding in the app which may not work on all systems.

A better solution, IMHO, would be to do what Tablo does and recode all recordings on the fly to H.264 progressive. Problem there is that there are currently no chips out there, that I know of, that can recode 6 streams simultaneously. So we'd end up with a box that was limited to 2 or 4 tuners. i.e. Tablo.

Although at this point maybe recording doesn't matter at all. Services like YouTube TV seem to have local channels for most markets, so if TiVo could just partner with a skinny bundle provider like that and tap directly into their DVR so that they could present it in the TiVo UI and offer their SP settings then they could be back in business. Especially if they could partner with multiple companies like this and actually give users a choice, or even combine multiple services, while maintaining a consistent UI.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Breaking news from CES: outlook isn't great for the Apple TV and Roku apps to ever get released. Android TV and Fire TV app may be released but that's not a high priority now.

TiVo's unreleased Roku and Apple TV apps are in limbo


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

fyodor said:


> "upcoming" in this thread title is kind of like how Jewish people believe that the Messiah will come one day. We believe it's in the future, but it would be absurd to plan on it coming at any particular time.


Well if time is infinite and theres zillions of parallel universes, then the Messiah will indeed come one day. But you are right about knowing about at what particular time it will happen.


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## mrsean (May 15, 2006)

NashGuy said:


> Breaking news from CES: outlook isn't great for the Apple TV and Roku apps to ever get released. Android TV and Fire TV app may be released but that's not a high priority now.
> 
> TiVo's unreleased Roku and Apple TV apps are


Once again, Tivo screws over current customers in order to go after customers that they aren't going to get enough of to matter. I am so tired of being ignored and taken granted by this company! We have been asking for things for more than a decade and every time we get close, Tivo pulls the rug out from underneath us and just says "Soon...maybe". This is so frustrating!


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