# pytivo: Session cannot be authenticated; try login again



## petesweeps (Jan 16, 2012)

Hello All,

I have setup a new pytivo setup on Windows 8 and everything works except when I push to my Tivo.

I can pull from Tivo and from my Tivo, I can transfer shows through the interface.

Whenever I try to push from pyTivo to my Tivo, I get:
pytivo: Session cannot be authenticated; try login again

I have checked my account on Tivo, I have even changed my tivo.com password to check and see if that would do anything.

I have rebooted my Tivo as well.

My original setup which runs on Windows works, fine. I can push from that instance of pyTivo to my Tivo without any problems.

If anyone has any ideas, that would be great. I've been searching on this problem and can only find posts about when mind.tivo.com went down.

This is what the debug file looks like:

```
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.video:mobileagent: -1 useragent: mozilla/5.0 (windows nt 6.3; wow64; rv:32.0) gecko/20100101 firefox/32.0
INFO:pyTivo:127.0.0.1 [17/Sep/2014 11:27:20] "GET /TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=NewNas&Format=text/html HTTP/1.1" 200 -
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.video:mobileagent: -1 useragent: mozilla/5.0 (windows nt 6.3; wow64; rv:32.0) gecko/20100101 firefox/32.0
INFO:pyTivo:127.0.0.1 [17/Sep/2014 11:27:26] "GET /TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=NewNas/Teenage%20Mutant%20Ninja%20Turtles%20%282012%29&Format=text/html HTTP/1.1" 200 -
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.video:mobileagent: -1 useragent: mozilla/5.0 (windows nt 6.3; wow64; rv:32.0) gecko/20100101 firefox/32.0
INFO:pyTivo:127.0.0.1 [17/Sep/2014 11:27:28] "GET /TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=NewNas/Teenage%20Mutant%20Ninja%20Turtles%20%282012%29/Season%2002&Format=text/html HTTP/1.1" 200 -
INFO:pyTivo.video.video:[17/Sep/2014 11:27:36] Queued "e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv" for Push to Down Stairs
INFO:pyTivo:127.0.0.1 [17/Sep/2014 11:27:36] "POST /TiVoConnect HTTP/1.1" 200 -
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.video:mobileagent: -1 useragent: mozilla/5.0 (windows nt 6.3; wow64; rv:32.0) gecko/20100101 firefox/32.0
INFO:pyTivo:127.0.0.1 [17/Sep/2014 11:27:41] "GET /TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=NewNas/Teenage%20Mutant%20Ninja%20Turtles%20%282012%29/Season%2002&Format=text/html HTTP/1.1" 200 -
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:ffmpeg output=ffmpeg version N-66232-g5e3da25 Copyright (c) 2000-2014 the FFmpeg developers
  built on Sep 10 2014 22:10:29 with gcc 4.8.3 (GCC)
  configuration: --enable-gpl --enable-version3 --disable-w32threads --enable-av
isynth --enable-bzlib --enable-fontconfig --enable-frei0r --enable-gnutls --enab
le-iconv --enable-libass --enable-libbluray --enable-libbs2b --enable-libcaca --
enable-libfreetype --enable-libgme --enable-libgsm --enable-libilbc --enable-lib
modplug --enable-libmp3lame --enable-libopencore-amrnb --enable-libopencore-amrw
b --enable-libopenjpeg --enable-libopus --enable-librtmp --enable-libschroedinge
r --enable-libsoxr --enable-libspeex --enable-libtheora --enable-libtwolame --en
able-libvidstab --enable-libvo-aacenc --enable-libvo-amrwbenc --enable-libvorbis
 --enable-libvpx --enable-libwavpack --enable-libwebp --enable-libx264 --enable-
libx265 --enable-libxavs --enable-libxvid --enable-decklink --enable-zlib
  libavutil      54.  7.100 / 54.  7.100
  libavcodec     56.  1.100 / 56.  1.100
  libavformat    56.  4.101 / 56.  4.101
  libavdevice    56.  0.100 / 56.  0.100
  libavfilter     5.  1.100 /  5.  1.100
  libswscale      3.  0.100 /  3.  0.100
  libswresample   1.  1.100 /  1.  1.100
  libpostproc    53.  0.100 / 53.  0.100
Input #0, matroska,webm, from 'e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv':
  Metadata:
    encoder         : libebml v1.3.0 + libmatroska v1.4.1
    creation_time   : 2014-09-13 01:14:56
  Duration: 00:21:45.12, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 2948 kb/s
    Stream #0:0: Video: h264 (High), yuv420p(tv, bt709), 1280x720, SAR 1:1 DAR 1
6:9, 23.98 fps, 23.98 tbr, 1k tbn, 47.95 tbc (default)
    Stream #0:1: Audio: ac3, 48000 Hz, 5.1(side), fltp, 384 kb/s (default)
At least one output file must be specified

DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:aFreq=48000; aCh=6; container=matroska; kbps=2948;mapAudio=[('0:1', ' ac3, 48000 Hz, 5.1(side), fltp, 384 kb/s (default)\r')]; vHeight=720; vCodec=h264; Supported=True; aKbps=384; par=None; millisecs=1305120; vFps=23.98; par2=None; par1=None; mapVideo=0:0; vWidth=1280; dar1=16:9; rawmeta={'creation_time': [u'2014-09-13 01:14:56'], 'encoder': [u'libebml v1.3.0 + libmatroska v1.4.1']}; aCodec=ac3
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:CACHE HIT! e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:TRANSCODE=YES, container matroska not compatible, e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:CACHE HIT! e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:TRANSCODE=YES, vCodec h264 not compatible, e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:CACHE HIT! e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:CACHE HIT! e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:CACHE HIT! e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:TRANSCODE=YES, vCodec h264 not compatible, e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:CACHE HIT! e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:CACHE HIT! e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:CACHE HIT! e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:CACHE HIT! e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:tsn: XXXXXXXXXX
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:aspect169: True
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:optres: False
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:File=e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv vCodec=h264 vWidth=1280 vHeight=720 vFps=23.98 millisecs=1305120 TIVO_HEIGHT=1080 TIVO_WIDTH=1920
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:CACHE HIT! e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:CACHE HIT! e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:CACHE HIT! e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:CACHE HIT! e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:CACHE HIT! e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:CACHE HIT! e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:audio_lang: None
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:set first detected audio stream by default: 0:1
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:selected audio stream: 0:1
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:CACHE HIT! e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:CACHE HIT! e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:TRANSCODE=YES, vCodec h264 not compatible, e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv
DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:CACHE HIT! e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkvDEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:CACHE HIT! e:\Shows\Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)\Season 02\Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv
DEBUG:pyTivo.mind:__login{'cams_security_domain': 'tivocom', 'cams_login_config': 'http', 'cams_cb_password': 'XXXXXXXX', 'cams_original_url': '/mind/mind7?type=infoGet', 'cams_cb_username': 'XXXXXXX'}
DEBUG:pyTivo.mind:pcBodySearch{}

<error><code>badCookie</code><debug>1</debug><text>Session cannot be authenticated; try login again</text></error>gDEBUG:pyTivo.mind:pcBodyStore{'replaceExisting': 'true', 'name': 'pyTivo'}

<error><code>badCookie</code><debug>1</debug><text>Session cannot be authenticated; try login again</text></error>gDEBUG:pyTivo.mind:bodyOfferModify&bodyId=tsn:XXXXXXXXXX{'description': '', 'pcBodyId': None, 'publishDate': '2014-09-17 15:2742', 'partnerId': 'tivo:pt.3187', 'duration': 1305, 'size': 2800634400L, 'title': 'Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F', 'url': 'http://XXXXXXX:9032/NewNas/Teenage%20Mutant%20Ninja%20Turtles%20%282012%29/Season%2002/Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F.mkv?Format=video/mpeg', 'bodyId': 'tsn:XXXXXXXXXX', 'source': 'Teenage.Mutant.Ninja.Turtles.2012.S02E23.HD.TV-W4F', 'state': 'complete', 'encodingType': 'mpeg2ProgramStream', 'tvRating': 'nr'}

<error><code>badCookie</code><debug>1</debug><text>Session cannot be authenticated; try login again</text></error>gERROR:pyTivo.video.video:<error>[CODE]badCookie
```
<debug>1</debug><text>Session cannot be authenticated; try login again</text></error>
[/CODE]


----------



## gardavis (Nov 24, 2001)

I have the same issue on Windows 8. I have not been able to Push for a while and happened to check the log file today and see the same error message.

Gary


----------



## gardavis (Nov 24, 2001)

I did find this related post and tried what it said but I still got the same error trying to push. 

That is, I went to TiVo.com, logged out, logged on, went to the season pass manager and restarted the pytivo service. I had to do the logout/login since otherwise, I was not able to get into the season pass manager (HTTP 404 attempting to log on.).

Gary


----------



## gardavis (Nov 24, 2001)

OK, the problem turned out to be that I had changed my password on Tivo.com but not in the pytivo configuration file. Fiddler helped resolve this when I saw the password failure response from https://mind.tivo.com:8080/mind/login.

I also updated my pytivo to the current version and also had to update the ffmpeg due to use (apparently) of a new "vf" flag.

Gary


----------



## davidg716 (Jan 20, 2015)

I have the same problem. Checked everything multiple times but can not authenticate.


----------



## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

pyTivo has been working great for years. Suddenly yesterday, I started getting "Session cannot be authenticated; try login again" on every push attempt. It has now been over 24 hours, and still broken.

I can find no one else complaining about this today, so I take it I am the only one. I made no changes, it just spontaneously stopped working. My credentials log on to tivo.com just fine.

When others have experienced this error, what was the resolution? Did it just spontaneously start working again? How long did it take? Do we know what might be the cause? I have a backlog of 26 videos to push, and growing.


----------



## BrandonJF (Aug 29, 2004)

Lurker1 said:


> pyTivo has been working great for years. Suddenly yesterday, I started getting "Session cannot be authenticated; try login again" on every push attempt. It has now been over 24 hours, and still broken.
> 
> I can find no one else complaining about this today, so I take it I am the only one. I made no changes, it just spontaneously stopped working. My credentials log on to tivo.com just fine.


It's happening to me, too. I can't even login to the Tivo site, though, either. The "Sign In" button doesn't work in IE, Firefox, or Chrome for me.


----------



## BrandonJF (Aug 29, 2004)

BrandonJF said:


> It's happening to me, too. I can't even login to the Tivo site, though, either. The "Sign In" button doesn't work in IE, Firefox, or Chrome for me.


Started working again this morning....


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

i havent changed a thing in years but now i'm getting this. very annoying

edit. someone told me to go to todo list and stop all pending ones. turn off pytivo and reboot tivo. 

this worked.


----------



## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

newsposter said:


> i havent changed a thing in years but now i'm getting this. very annoying
> 
> edit. someone told me to go to todo list and stop all pending ones. turn off pytivo and reboot tivo.
> 
> this worked.


I did this and I still get authentication error.


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

now pulls work but pushes dont. no idea why


----------



## das335 (Feb 8, 2006)

I have been experiencing the same problem for the last few days. Restarting did not help.


----------



## akalion (Sep 22, 2010)

Same here. Can't push due to following error:

ERRORyTivo.video.video:<error>

```
badCookie
```
<debug>1</debug><text>Session cannot be authenticated; try login again</text></error>

Been trying various things the last hour with no success. I can login with credentials just fine on tivo.com. None of my pytivo settings have changed in a very long time.


----------



## trendtimer (May 19, 2015)

I'm also seeing the same error starting this week.


----------



## trendtimer (May 19, 2015)

I believe the badCookie errors are happening after the login attempt.

I added a debug to output the xml returned by the login to mind.py:


```
try:
            result = self.__opener.open(r)
            xml = ElementTree.parse(result).find('.')
        except:
            pass

        self.__logger.debug('__login\n%s12345' % (ElementTree.tostring(xml)))
```
With this in place, I'm seeing a different error:
<error>

```
memcacheError
```
<debug>14</debug><text>Memcache error while doing login</text></error>12345

Maybe they need to restart their memcache server 

But I'm puzzled because I believe the login is constructing a URL like this:

```
https://mind.tivo.com:8181/mind/login?cams_security_domain=tivocom&cams_login_config=http&cams_cb_password=mypassword&cams_original_url=%2Fmind%2Fmind7%3Ftype%3DinfoGet&cams_cb_username=myusername
```
But when I put this in the browser then I actually get a different error:

<error>

```
badArgument
```
<text>you muss pass in a query in the URL with a 'type'</text>
</error>

I'm not sure why I get the Memcache error when pyTivo tries this, and a badArgument error when I try in the browser.


----------



## dsteakley (Aug 14, 2016)

Same. changed nothing, but now pushes don't work. logging in to tivo.com works fine.


----------



## Gary-B (Jun 4, 2009)

I had the same problems for the last week. Several calls to Tivo didn't help.
They suggested I change my password, no help. This morning I tried and changed my email address to another one on my Tivo account. Bingo, started pushing videos to Tivo. Be sure to change the new email in pytivo.


----------



## trendtimer (May 19, 2015)

So you have multiple emails associated with your account? Because my tivo.com account just uses a single email, so I changed the account to use my wife's email.

I updated my pytivo.conf, but unfortunately this didn't help resolve the issue for me. Still getting the same errors as before.


----------



## trendtimer (May 19, 2015)

Everyone having this problem should make sure to open a support ticket. Include a link to this thread so they understand that the problem isn't affecting one user, and is a problem on their end. This might be the kind of thing that remains unresolved unless we make a lot of noise about it.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

trendtimer said:


> Everyone having this problem should make sure to open a support ticket. Include a link to this thread so they understand that the problem isn't affecting one user, and is a problem on their end. This might be the kind of thing that remains unresolved unless we make a lot of noise about it.


Unless you're using TD+ to do the push, reporting it to TiVo won't accomplish anything.


----------



## Gary-B (Jun 4, 2009)

trendtimer said:


> So you have multiple emails associated with your account? Because my tivo.com account just uses a single email, so I changed the account to use my wife's email.
> 
> I updated my pytivo.conf, but unfortunately this didn't help resolve the issue for me. Still getting the same errors as before.


Just had one email on my Tivo account, just changed it to my work email.
No more login errors. I'm using Pytivo, but tested everything with Tivo Desktop. Couldn't link my to my account in TD, after I changed the email on my account, Pytivo started pushing and Tivo Desktop link to my account worked with new email.


----------



## matt8268 (Nov 28, 2006)

i have this problem too, just started in the past week. Same situation as akalion: pytivo has worked for years, I haven't made any changes, all of a sudden, i get this error. and my login works fine on tivo.com

i have tried rebooting Tivo, router, computer, upgrading to latest pytivo version, nothing. contacted Tivo support via chat but they said they don't support pytivo, only Tivo Desktop. I don't have my Tivo Desktop installed anymore. If this problem continues, I plan to install it, likely hit a connectivity error, then contact Tivo support again. 

Paste solution here if anyone finds it. I'm going to hold off on changing my Tivo email address for now. I suppose I'll go that route if nothing else solves it, but that seems like a temporary solution.


----------



## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

My last successful push was at 10/Aug/2016 14:07:58, and my first error was at 10/Aug/2016 18:01:49. All attempts since then have errored.

Something definitely changed on TiVo's servers Wednesday afternoon (intentional or not).


----------



## ilkevinli (Jan 6, 2001)

I am also seeing this error:

ERROR: pyTivo.video.video:<error>

```
badCookie
```
<debug>1</debug><text>Session cannot be authenticated; try login again</text></error>


----------



## matt8268 (Nov 28, 2006)

here is the thing. Tivo won't address any problem with pyTivo. We are going to have to reproduce a problem with Tivo Desktop, and call with that issue. I will do this when I get some time, if the problem doesn't get resolved before that.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

matt8268 said:


> here is the thing. Tivo won't address any problem with pyTivo. We are going to have to reproduce a problem with Tivo Desktop, and call with that issue. I will do this when I get some time, if the problem doesn't get resolved before that.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10966287&highlight=#post10966287


----------



## tomphilb (Oct 6, 2009)

Bump. Get the badcookie error when I try to push most of the time. If I go to the tivo and pull it seems to work fine. Weird thing is I was able to get a partial push of another show from the pc immediately after the pull finished, but it threw the error about halfway through.

Also tried Desktop Plus and got same "Unable to link your account" dialog. Submitted email ticket to Tivo (using same creds!).


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Same authentication error here. Only pulls work.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

I had a logon problem a few years ago. For a short period of time at least one of tivos servers treated username (EMAIL ADDRESS) as case sensitive. Making my email address all caps solved it.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

lew said:


> I had a logon problem a few years ago. For a short period of time at least one of tivos servers treated username (EMAIL ADDRESS) as case sensitive. Making my email address all caps solved it.


http://pytivo.sourceforge.net/forum...g-for-anyone-or-is-it-broken-t3025.html#18340


----------



## ilkevinli (Jan 6, 2001)

Changing the email address too all capital fixed it for me. Thanks for posting.



lpwcomp said:


> http://pytivo.sourceforge.net/forum...g-for-anyone-or-is-it-broken-t3025.html#18340


----------



## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

lew said:


> I had a logon problem a few years ago. For a short period of time at least one of tivos servers treated username (EMAIL ADDRESS) as case sensitive. Making my email address all caps solved it.


I changed my email to all uppercase in pyTivo.conf, restarted pyTivo and the authentication error went away. Thanks for the solution! :up:


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Did not help here. Same error reported.


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## akalion (Sep 22, 2010)

Worked for me! Had to use all caps for first part of email address and keep the @host part lowercase.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

jcthorne said:


> Did not help here. Same error reported.


This is probably a silly question, but... Did you stop and restart pyTiVo after making the change?


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

akalion said:


> Worked for me! Had to use all caps for first part of email address and keep the @host part lowercase.


That worked. Really odd.

UPPERCASEADDRESS.com

format is working. Thanks for the suggestion, would not have thought to try this odd combo.


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## tomphilb (Oct 6, 2009)

So that worked on both pyTivo and the Desktop Plus app. Email addy in the format username in uppercase and @ domain in lowercase. Thanks!


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## das335 (Feb 8, 2006)

After trying several combinations over the last few days, I went with ALL uppercase for Email address and domain (example [email protected]) and I got a push to work.

I did make all changes to my pyTivo.conf file and saved them BEFORE I started pytivo.

Thanks for all the info posted earlier.


----------



## matt8268 (Nov 28, 2006)

Tried just changing to various combos of uppercase in pytivo.conf (all listed above), nothing worked. Changed email address to an alternate one on Tivo.com (and in pytivo.conf), that didn't work. Changed email on Tivo.com and pytivo.conf back to original email but in all uppercase in both places...that did the trick. Now transferring.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

This uppercase thing is just goofy. I gotta wonder what's going on at TiVo HQ.


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## matt8268 (Nov 28, 2006)

Well, now it's not working again. It started transcoding, getting past the prior issue. But after many minutes, I ended up with the same error. So I still haven't done a successful transfer. Declared victory too early.


----------



## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

matt8268 said:


> Well, now it's not working again. It started transcoding, getting past the prior issue. But after many minutes, I ended up with the same error. So I still haven't done a successful transfer. Declared victory too early.


Mine has stopped working again too. It was fine for a while, and I completed several pushes successfully. Now, without changing anything, I am getting authentication errors again.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Tried a push. Failed. Changed ID in pyTivo.conf to lower case. Failed. Changed it back to upper case. Success.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Strange....

I had to do the change up as well to get it back today. Really flakey.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

das335 said:


> after trying several combinations over the last few days, i went with all uppercase for email address and domain (example [email protected]) and i got a push to work.
> 
> I did make all changes to my pytivo.conf file and saved them before i started pytivo.
> 
> Thanks for all the info posted earlier.


all caps worked for me


----------



## jtdon99 (Oct 26, 2014)

This AM I tried to push 3 episodes of a series to my Roamio, immediately got the authentication error twice in a row then it pushed the 3rd episode. When it was done sending I sent the other 2 episodes again with no errors or issues.


----------



## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

jtdon99 said:


> This AM I tried to push 3 episodes of a series to my Roamio, immediately got the authentication error twice in a row then it pushed the 3rd episode. When it was done sending I sent the other 2 episodes again with no errors or issues.


Mine has now started working again too. I changed nothing since the failures. I hope TiVo is fixing whatever the problem is.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Currently broken for me.

Edit: 4th time was the charm. Now sending.


----------



## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> Currently broken for me.
> 
> Edit: 4th time was the charm. Now sending.


Broken again for me. It is like Russian Roulette now.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Lurker1 said:


> Broken again for me. It is like Russian Roulette now.


With only one empty chamber.


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

all is working again. thanks for fixing it


----------



## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

newsposter said:


> all is working again. thanks for fixing it


Who fixed it, and how?


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

justen_m said:


> Who fixed it, and how?


the tivo gods i assume. i actually forgot it was broken until i saw this thread.


----------



## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

After seeing your post, I tested it, and it worked. I never tested it while others were seeing failure. I never changed my [email protected] to all caps or anything. Still all lower case. I wonder if it is actually fixed, or just luck. Maybe others will chime in.

Based on other responses in the thread, it has been hit and miss with the [email protected] capitalization and/or email change workaround.


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

thank goodness tivo password is in the clear in the interface. i had no idea what it was. 

then again, isnt that a security flaw?


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

newsposter said:


> thank goodness tivo password is in the clear in the interface. i had no idea what it was.
> 
> then again, isnt that a security flaw?


Not if access to your computer is protected.


----------



## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Its still hit and miss. I quit playing with capitalization and just retry several times. It eventually seems to connect and once it does will transfer all recordings I send during that session.


----------



## matt8268 (Nov 28, 2006)

still doesn't work for me. also, tivo.com site is loading very slowly for me, i can barely navigate my account page. changing around my email address never worked for me anyway, though. i'll keep waiting for a solution, but seems to me there are definitely issues at tivo if the web site is this slow to load.


----------



## oscarfish (Mar 2, 2009)

I can't log into tivo.com at all. After I hit signin, it brings up a red error message next to the email field that says "FORGETTING SOMETHING?". It did this to me last night too, but it got "fixed" after a couple of hours. I'm seeing this on multiple computers (Windows 8.1 and 7) and multiple browsers (Firefox, Chrome and IE). I didn't actually try all combinations.

I am not currently getting the really slow page loading, but I was last night. When that problem cleared up then the login problem cleared up. But tonight I'm just getting the login problem.

In addition, my Tivo Desktop will no longer link to my account. That's being discussed elsewhere. And yes, I've tried all the uppercase/lowercase combinations for my email address. I just have to assume these are all related.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

I have been getting the error for the last few days. I tried changing my e-mail to caps, and the tivo.com won't let me change it, saying they are all the same. I changed to my work e-mail. No joy. I changed back to my personal e-mail with all caps. 'Same result. I'm running pyTivo on Debian Linux 8.1.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

lrhorer said:


> I have been getting the error for the last few days. I tried changing my e-mail to caps, and the tivo.com won't let me change it, saying they are all the same. I changed to my work e-mail. No joy. I changed back to my personal e-mail with all caps. 'Same result. I'm running pyTivo on Debian Linux 8.1.


You weren't supposed to change it at tivo.com, just in pytivo.conf.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Back down again for me.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

I see. It's working now.


----------



## worachj (Oct 14, 2006)

```
[COLOR="Red"]ERROR:pyTivo.video.video:<error>[CODE]badCookie
```
<debug>1</debug><text>Session cannot be authenticated; try login again</text></error>
[/COLOR]
[/CODE]

Whenever I get the above error while doing pushes, I get it to work by just doing the push again. Usually works on the second try but today I needed 3 tries.

I don't believe it has anything to do with upper/lower case passwords, because I never changed mine. It may be TiVo server dependent.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

worachj said:


> ```
> [COLOR="Red"]ERROR:pyTivo.video.video:<error>[CODE]badCookie
> ```
> <debug>1</debug><text>Session cannot be authenticated; try login again</text></error>
> ...


Since the problem started, I've never been able to get it to work with a lower case *ID* (not password), despite multiple tries.


----------



## worachj (Oct 14, 2006)

lpwcomp said:


> Since the problem started, I've never been able to get it to work with a lower case *ID* (not password), despite multiple tries.


Its a strange problem, my login/password are all lower case. Sometimes when I queue multiple recordings for a push, the first recording will fail but all the other recordings get transferred successfully. Why does the first recording fail and the others succeed.

I push stuff every day.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

worachj said:


> Its a strange problem, my login/password are all lower case. Sometimes when I queue multiple recordings for a push, the first recording will fail but all the other recordings get transferred successfully. Why does the first recording fail and the others succeed.
> 
> I push stuff every day.


I push multiple recordings almost every day. What I usually have to do is try it with uppper case - fail. Switch to lower case. Fail. Switch back to lower case - fail. Try again with upper case - success. All pushes work until the next time.


----------



## worachj (Oct 14, 2006)

lpwcomp said:


> I push multiple recordings almost every day. What I usually have to do is try it with uppper case - fail. Switch to lower case. Fail. Switch back to lower case - fail. Try again with upper case - success. All pushes work until the next time.


Since I've never changed the case and get it to work by re-doing the push it would seem to me to be a TiVo server(s) problem. Too busy servers, different servers, different server code etc., something server related.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

worachj said:


> Since I've never changed the case and get it to work by re-doing the push it would seem to me to be a TiVo server(s) problem. Too busy servers, different servers, different server code etc., something server related.


It's always been obvious that it's a TiVo server problem. What has that got to do with what seems to work, for whatever reason?


----------



## worachj (Oct 14, 2006)

lpwcomp said:


> It's always been obvious that it's a TiVo server problem. What has that got to do with what seems to work, for whatever reason?


Just my WAG, since I know nothing about TiVo's servers. I dont think their multiple servers are setup the same. So youre playing Russian roulette on which one you get. Server load, your location and other factors all decide which server will process your request. Handling of upper/lower case seems dependent on which server you get.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Getting a new error tonight.

ERROR: pyTivo.video.video:<urlopen error [SSL: CERTIFICATE_VERIFY_FAILED] certificate verify failed (_ssl.c:590)>

Looking through older messages in the PyTiVo thread, it might be since this machine is running Python 2.7.12. It looks like the same error popped up with 2.7.9 which required a fix.


----------



## cwb3106 (Jan 18, 2010)

lrhorer said:


> ...I tried changing my e-mail to caps, and the tivo.com won't let me change it, saying they are all the same...


You need to put the uppercase email address into *TiVo Desktop*, not *tivo.com*


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

cwb3106 said:


> You need to put the uppercase email address into *TiVo Desktop*, not *tivo.com*


Your post would have been a lot more helpful if:

a. You had made it when he first posted.

b. He hadn't already been informed that the change wasn't at tivo.com

c. He was running TiVo Desktop rather than pyTivo.


----------



## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Well as of today even multiple retries with varying combos of upper and lower case username are not working. Push is completely dead today. For me at least. Same login still works fine at tivo.com and on the tivo forums.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

jcthorne said:


> Well as of today even multiple retries with varying combos of upper and lower case username are not working. Push is completely dead today. For me at least. Same login still works fine at tivo.com and on the tivo forums.


+1.

Gave up and am doing a PC-PC transfer.


----------



## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

Stopped working on Saturday afternoon for me. Down since then. I got the mind server authentication issue. Email case did not fix.


----------



## worachj (Oct 14, 2006)

Worked for me this morning on the fourth push (PC/Premiere). Just got done trying a different recording and it went on the fifth try (lower case) (PC/Premiere).

Its definitely getting worse.

_*Edit:*_
Just pushed another recording, first try (PC/Roamio). STRANGE PROBLEM!


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

worachj said:


> Worked for me this morning on the fourth push (PC/Premiere). Just got done trying a different recording and it went on the fifth try (lower case) (PC/Premiere).
> 
> Its definitely getting worse.
> 
> ...


Tried it 10 times earlier. No go. Switched to lower case. Failed twice. Switched back to upper case. Failed twice. That's when I decided to do a PC-PC transfer.


----------



## worachj (Oct 14, 2006)

Had many failed attempts today. I went into the setting sections for MyMovie and changed the parameter 'allow_recurse' to 'On'. It was set to Auto. 

I have now successfully push 10 recordings without errors.

allow_recurse "On"


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

It worked for a bit on Monday so I pushed a bunch of stuff while I could. I haven't tried it since.


----------



## sjmyst (Apr 24, 2004)

jcthorne said:


> Well as of today even multiple retries with varying combos of upper and lower case username are not working. Push is completely dead today. For me at least. Same login still works fine at tivo.com and on the tivo forums.


Count me as another seeing this same error:


```
DEBUG:pyTivo.mind:pcBodySearch
{}

<error>[CODE]badCookie
```
<debug>1</debug><text>Session cannot be authenticated; try login again</text></error>g[/CODE]

Tivo Desktop is working for me fine. I have a TiVo Premiere.

I have tried to change my PC time. Saw this on another post:

http://pytivo.sourceforge.net/forum/cannot-push-t2788.html

I have not tried the change in password case yet. I don't see how that can be it. Especially since the change is supposed to be made in TD. And, TD is working for me.

I'm on an older pyTivo from a McBrine branch. Although, I'm not sure if I know how to figure out what version it actually is. I found this. But, I'm not sure if that means anything:

$ grep mcbrine *.py
turing.py:__author__ = 'William McBrine <[email protected]>'
zeroconf.py:""" Multicast DNS Service Discovery for Python, v0.14-wmcbrine
zeroconf.py:__maintainer__ = 'William McBrine <[email protected]>'
zeroconf.py:__version__ = '0.14-wmcbrine'

I've tried a TON of stuff.

I moved to a later verion of pyTivo. It seemed to have the same grep as above for version. So, maybe I just thought it was a later version. Anyway, same error.

- I've rebooted the TiVo Premiere
- Rebooted the pyTivo server
- Re-applied the user/pass via TD menus
- Restarted TD Server (I have seen where that seems to help; might have just been coincidence)
- I changed TD Properties from Bonjour to Tivo Beacon and back (that has sometimes seemed to help multiple times when pyTivo is stuck for other reasons)
- I tried setting the 'allow_recurse' on the pyTivo Share to 'On'. 
- I've tried several different video (I know shouldn't matter).

None of these has helped. My user/pass worked fine up until a couple of days ago. I tranfer PC->TiVo pretty regularly. That same user/pass works fine for logging into tivo.com.

I forget how I set this up, but in my Now Playing on my Premiere, I have a "Now Playing on MYPC" Folder at the very bottom. It is set up to see a specific directory on MYPC (a Windows 10 PC). I have a video in that directory, and I was able to pull that video from the PC to the Premiere fine (not sure if it uses the same Mind Server handshake, but thought I'd add that as well).

I have been getting this same error for about 2 days now. I've probably attempted over 100 times using pyTivo. I have been able to successfully transfer about 5 files using TD. Each time after TD succeeded, pyTivo failed. Most of those TD success times, I had just tried pyTivo and failed right before try TD.

Regards,
sjmyst


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

sjmyst said:


> Although, I'm not sure if I know how to figure out what version it actually is. I found this. But, I'm not sure if that means anything:


No, that's just the version of the zeroconf module.

For historic reasons that I'm not going to go into right now, pyTivo doesn't have versions. It prints the timestamp of the newest file at startup, but even this has proven to be a flawed system. Anyway, the way to know what version you have is to make a note when you download it, or use source control to keep it up to date.



> _I've tried a TON of stuff._


There's no point trying anything, because the problem is on the side of TiVo Inc.'s servers. It's not addressable on the pyTivo side.



> _... I was able to pull that video from the PC to the Premier fine (not sure if it uses the same Mind Server handshake, but thought I'd add that as well)._


It doesn't touch the Mind server at all. That's why it works. (Presumably this is also what you're seeing when you say that TiVo Desktop "works" -- in fact, TD's version of push (autotransfer folders) is failing in exactly the same way as pyTivo's.)


----------



## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> +1.
> 
> Gave up and am doing a PC-PC transfer.


Add me to the list. Changing email address to caps did not help. Problem just started this week.


----------



## worachj (Oct 14, 2006)

worachj said:


> Had many failed attempts today. I went into the setting sections for MyMovie and changed the parameter 'allow_recurse' to 'On'. It was set to Auto.
> 
> I have now successfully push 10 recordings without errors.
> 
> allow_recurse "On"


Back to errors this morning. Changing allow_recurse to 'On' has no effect. It was just luck that I was able to push 10 recordings last night without errors after changing it and restarting the pyTivo server.

I had successful pushes on two recordings this morning on the 4th try.

_*Edit:*_
Just pushed two recordings without errors on the first attempt.


----------



## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

Given all the issues with push, am I still correct that no one is aware of a workaround that allows you to pull into folders for arbitrary groups or shows that are not currently in the guide?


----------



## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

fyodor said:


> Given all the issues with push, am I still correct that no one is aware of a workaround that allows you to pull into folders for arbitrary groups or shows that are not currently in the guide?


I do it by putting "seriesId: TSnnnnnnnn" in the metadata, using my own 8-digit numbers. This creates any arbitrary folders I want.


----------



## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

Interesting-what's the import of the "TS"?


----------



## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

fyodor said:


> Interesting-what's the import of the "TS"?


It works.


----------



## worachj (Oct 14, 2006)

fyodor said:


> Interesting-what's the import of the "TS"?


http://pytivo.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Metadata

seriesId *
*
Usually starts with "SH" and followed by 6-8 digits. TiVo uses this to allow for grouping once a program is transferred to a TiVo, provided the TiVo is set to grouping in the NPL (Now Playing List). Leaving this field blank or omitting doesnt seem to cause any problems, except when it comes time to group when transferring to TiVo. Will not group without a series ID.

SH is for general TV shows. 
MV is for movies (e.g. Amazon Unbox). 
SP is for sports. 
TS is for Tivocast content.

SeriesId can be located at zap2it.com for a show. These values will all start with EP and must be changed to SH before using.


----------



## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

I am familiar with SeriesID generally but haven't been able to get arbitrary seriesIDs to group on pull (though they do so for push). I was curious why the TS prefix would make a difference.



worachj said:


> http://pytivo.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Metadata
> 
> seriesId *
> *
> ...


----------



## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

fyodor said:


> I am familiar with SeriesID generally but haven't been able to get arbitrary seriesIDs to group on pull (though they do so for push). I was curious why the TS prefix would make a difference.


I don't know. When I first tried them way back, I guessed it might be because "Tivocast content" is never in the guide, so it allows anything.


----------



## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

Lurker1 said:


> I don't know. When I first tried them way back, I guessed it might be because "Tivocast content" is never in the guide, so it allows anything.


huh. Makes sense. Will try it out.


----------



## satpro (Jan 9, 2004)

Having the same problem as everyone with pytivo push, I tried the change email and pass to all caps and that did not help so I have been going to mymovies on the tivo and moving them over for several weeks now.


----------



## sjmyst (Apr 24, 2004)

wmcbrine said:


> There's no point trying anything, because the problem is on the side of TiVo Inc.'s servers. It's not addressable on the pyTivo side.
> 
> It doesn't touch the Mind server at all. That's why it works. (Presumably this is also what you're seeing when you say that TiVo Desktop "works" -- in fact, TD's version of push (autotransfer folders) is failing in exactly the same way as pyTivo's.)


Thank you for your advice. I'm not sure I'm completely following your last statement about "TD's version of push (autotransfer folders) is failing in exactly the same way...".

I suppose it could just be dumb luck. But, here is what I just did within the last 2 or so hours before I posted this:

1. From a pyTivo Share, I used the pyTivo browser page for that Share to:
a. Check the box for the file to push.
b. Choose my Premiere to push to (I also have a Series 3).
c. Press the "Send to TiVo" button.
d. Repeat a-c another 9 times for a total of 10.

2. Move a different file to a TD Share directory (different Share than the pyTivo Share). Waited about 70 seconds and the blue light came on and the file was transferred correctly.

3. Repeat step 1 another 10 times.

4. Move another file to the same TD Share directory. Waited just under 2 minutes and the blue light came on and the file was transferred.

All of steps 1 and 3 produced the same error in the pyTivo output I reported above for:

<error>

```
badCookie
```
<debug>1</debug><text>Session cannot be authenticated; try login again</text></error>g

I also ran the TD Troubleshooting app. It was reporting that Bonjour couldn't detect my PC. I changed to Beacon and then the Troubleshooter didn't report errors on that step. I ran this multiple times. About 5 or more completed fine with no errors. I did see one time where the TD Troubleshooter did report an error that seemed to be the same error that pyTivo is reporting. Just a variation of the text (sorry, didn't capture that).

Since the TD Troubleshooter seemed to generate a similar error, I ran it another 10 times in a row to try and generate it again, but it didn't. I'm thinking the "Web Video" part of the Troubleshooter is logging into the Mind Server because the last thing it reports when it's working is "There are no videos currently scheduled to transfer automatically to your DVR.". I'm thinking it's getting that info from the Mind Server. But, just a guess since it seemed to report the "similar" error the one time earlier.

Before I performed the test steps above I was able to successfully push at least three other files using TD. Some using Bonjour, some with Beacon.

So, there may be a problem with the Mind Server. But, for some reason TD can figure it out a little better than the version of pyTivo I'm using.

BTW, I'm really not trying to just be a complainer. I do recognize the outstanding and outrageously large effort that you and some your pyTivo contemporaries have made over many years now to make pyTivo a GREAT tool. So, for that I THANK YOU.

I really only use TD for some shows. I have moved many of my shows I push over to pyTivo just because it works much BETTER than TD typically. So, I'm really hoping this is like you are thinking a temporary glitch with the Mind Server, because I really don't want to go back to TD and having to "kick" it to get it moving again. Or, having to convert files using ffmpeg so TD can handle it (whereas pyTivo already does).

Off to make sure I have the latest version of pyTivo to make sure that isn't my problem.

[EDIT] Latest version of pyTivo didn't help (I didn't really expect it to help since McBrine is still thinking it's just the Tivo Mind server that's the problem).

Regards,
sjmyst


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Push has been hit or miss for nearly a month. Doesn't matter if you use pyTivo or TD+. It sometimes works but mostly doesn't. Once it does work, subsequent pushes work for a while.


----------



## worachj (Oct 14, 2006)

lpwcomp said:


> once it does work, subsequent pushes work for a while.


+1


----------



## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

Lurker1 said:


> I do it by putting "seriesId: TSnnnnnnnn" in the metadata, using my own 8-digit numbers. This creates any arbitrary folders I want.


I've tried this and it doesn't seem to be working on the Bolt when pulling from pytivo (push I've given up on).

When I pull from the Tivo they show up with the same series name but as separate entries.

Would you mind giving me more detail about the metadata you are using for your directory and your individual files?


----------



## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

fyodor said:


> I've tried this and it doesn't seem to be working on the Bolt when pulling from pytivo (push I've given up on).
> 
> When I pull from the Tivo they show up with the same series name but as separate entries.
> 
> Would you mind giving me more detail about the metadata you are using for your directory and your individual files?


If there is some magic secret that causes this to work, I don't know what it is. It just always worked for me from the very first time I tried it. Here is an example of my metadata files of two videos that group into one folder after pulling onto my Roamio OTA:

default.txt:

```
time: File
isEpisode: true
```
_ckZpFq-G3A.mp4.txt:

```
seriesTitle: Tech
episodeTitle: iPhone 7, AirPods & The Watch that Spits
description: We were live during the Apple event today for the iPhone 7 (which doesn't have that headphone jack) and the Apple Watch Series 2.  This is our 10 minute break down of what everything means!  Thank you for your support!
seriesId: TS52562348
originalAirDate: 2016-09-07T12:00:00Z
callsign: Geeks Life
```
lKXP_jNsZLg.mp4.txt:

```
seriesTitle: Tech
episodeTitle: Samsung's Exploding Galaxy Note 7 Batteries
description: Leo Laporte, Stacey Higginbotham, and Ron Richards talk about Samsung's issue with the exploding Note 7 batteries, and how to tell if your phone is affected.
seriesId: TS52562348
originalAirDate: 2016-09-07T12:00:00Z
callsign: TWiT Netcast Network
```


----------



## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

Hmm. I'll try matching this and see if it works. Thanks for the help.


----------



## bmal1 (Jun 6, 2008)

This push issue has been really frustrating which has been good in a way as it has forced me to look for alternatives. 

I don't like pulling video to the Tivo due the the transcoding it has to go through and for obvious reasons I don't like being dependent on the Mind server. 

I decided to give Plex Media Server a try. I am not a big fan of streaming due to buffering and the delays with fast forwarding and rewind. However, I think it is a good alternative. With streaming from the local network video is more responsive to commands and the ff and rewind delays are not disruptive like when streaming from Amazon Prime. 

It looks like Plex plays a bunch of different formats which minimizes the need to transcode or convert video formats. 

So this might be viable alternative if the push issue never get's fixed.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

bmal1 said:


> This push issue has been really frustrating which has been good in a way as it has forced me to look for alternatives.
> 
> I don't like pulling video to the Tivo due the the transcoding it has to go through and for obvious reasons I don't like being dependent on the Mind server.


If you're pulling to an S4 (Premiere) or later, H.264 video doesn't have to be transcoded.

Pull doesn't use the mind server, it's all local. That's one of the advantages it has overr push.



bmal1 said:


> TI decided to give Plex Media Server a try. I am not a big fan of streaming due to buffering and the delays with fast forwarding and rewind. However, I think it is a good alternative. With streaming from the local network video is more responsive to commands and the ff and rewind delays are not disruptive like when streaming from Amazon Prime.
> 
> It looks like Plex plays a bunch of different formats which minimizes the need to transcode or convert video formats.
> 
> So this might be viable alternative if the push issue never get's fixed.


Don't kid yourself. Anything that has to be transcoded for pull will have to be transcoded by Plex. It has to go to the TiVo in a format that is playable by the TiVo.


----------



## bmal1 (Jun 6, 2008)

lpwcomp said:


> If you're pulling to an S4 (Premiere) or later, H.264 video doesn't have to be transcoded.


That is strange because I have a XL4, I encode with Handbrake using H.264 and use an .mp4 container. Every time I pull video I get TRANSCODE=YES, vCodec h264 not compatible and then it looks like it it transcoding. Maybe i am misinterpreting the pytivo debug output.

When I push video there is no transcoding and takes about 3 minutes to transfer. Pulling takes a lot longer and appears to be transcoded.

Does the file need to be web optimized to avoid transcoding for pulls? Or is there something else needed?


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

cannot push now..who broke it!!!!!!!


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

bmal1 said:


> That is strange because I have a XL4, I encode with Handbrake using H.264 and use an .mp4 container. Every time I pull video I get TRANSCODE=YES, vCodec h264 not compatible and then it looks like it it transcoding. Maybe i am misinterpreting the pytivo debug output.
> 
> When I push video there is no transcoding and takes about 3 minutes to transfer. Pulling takes a lot longer and appears to be transcoded.
> 
> Does the file need to be web optimized to avoid transcoding for pulls? Or is there something else needed?


No. You used to have to have "ts = on" in pyTivo.conf but I think that requirement was removed. What your seeing an interpreting as transcoding is it being re-muxed into a transport stream container.

Check the actual size of the transferred recording (not the size pyTivo reports when viewing it in the share). It should be pretty close to the file size on the computer.


----------



## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

bmal1 said:


> That is strange because I have a XL4, I encode with Handbrake using H.264 and use an .mp4 container. Every time I pull video I get TRANSCODE=YES, vCodec h264 not compatible and then it looks like it it transcoding. Maybe i am misinterpreting the pytivo debug output.


I think that is your problem. The DEBUG output is confusing you. It is doing transcoding... but just AUDIO, not VIDEO. For example, I just pulled an mp4 from my server to my Roamio. This is what I see in the pyTivo debug output.

[SNIP]
DEBUG: pyTivo.video.transcode:TRANSCODE=YES, vCodec h264 not compatible
[SNIP]
Stream mapping:
Stream #0:0 -> #0:0 (copy)
Stream #0:1 -> #0:1 (aac (native) -> ac3 (native))

So it is copying the video, not transcoding. It IS transcoding the audio, or maybe just remuxing everything. Push or Pull makes no difference. I want to avoid video transcoding, which is a very expensive operation. Audio or remux is nothing.

Let me put this a simpler way. With TiVo,

THERE IS NO PUSH. PUSH DOESN"T EXIST. PUSH IS JUST AN INDIRECT PULL USING THE TIVO SERVERS. PULL DOESN"T REQUIRE THE TIVO SERVERS.

[edit] Hmmm, maybe it isn't that simple... If the servers (pyTivo or TD+) know there is a difference, they could behave differently, like pre-processing?


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

justen_m said:


> Stream mapping:
> Stream #0:0 -> #0:0 (copy)
> Stream #0:1 -> #0:1 (aac (native) -> ac3 (native))


I have noticed the same thing on all my pulls. The video is copied, the audio is transcoded from aac to ac3. Why is this necessary? TiVo can play aac directly with pushed files.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

Lurker1 said:


> I have noticed the same thing on all my pulls. The video is copied, the audio is transcoded from aac to ac3. Why is this necessary? TiVo can play aac directly with pushed files.


Guess I haven't noticed. I seldom use push, as it relies on things out of my control (TiVo Servers). I did just try a push, and got the expected authentication error, but before that, I saw...

DEBUG: pyTivo.video.transcode:TRANSCODE=NO, all compatible
occur three times, and then...
DEBUG: pyTivo.video.transcode:TRANSCODE=YES, vCodec h264 not compatible
once. It never got to the point where it was sending data, so I couldn't see the Stream output.

Perhaps there more pre-processing done for a Push that alters the behavior of the server for the subsequent actual data transfer (Pull) by the TiVo?

[edit] Yeah, if a TiVo can play AC3, it can obviously play AAC, which is just stereo. Not sure why AAC is converted (copied? upscaled? repackaged? remuxed?) to AC3.


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## sjmyst (Apr 24, 2004)

Lurker1 said:


> If there is some magic secret that causes this to work, I don't know what it is. It just always worked for me from the very first time I tried it. Here is an example of my metadata files of two videos that group into one folder after pulling onto my Roamio OTA:


Lurker1,

A big thank you for the examples. I was using 'SH' for the first two letters, and no grouping was occurring on the TiVo. I used your examples, and they worked great. I think using the first two letters of "TS" might have been the trick.

So...

THANK YOU!!!

Regards,
sjmyst


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## kcossabo (Dec 8, 2007)

wmcbrine said:


> There's no point trying anything, because the problem is on the side of TiVo Inc.'s servers. It's not addressable on the pyTivo side.
> 
> pyTivo's.)


So is this feature dead on pyTiVo?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

kcossabo said:


> So is this feature dead on pyTiVo?


Not really. It works intermittently, while we wait (without holding our breaths) for TiVo to fix whatever it is they broke, which they could do at any time. Or not.

Push has always been a bit intermittent for my taste, anyway.


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## RedMan8 (Sep 30, 2005)

They are working on it... because it affects desktop users too:
https://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=11290546&channelID=10

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, but they don't really support TiVo Desktop anymore, either.


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## Gary-B (Jun 4, 2009)

wmcbrine said:


> Yeah, but they don't really support TiVo Desktop anymore, either.


I called and asked about a refund for the Tivo Desktop Plus I purchased.
Support said they had talked about refunds but I'm waiting for a call back.


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## Tivoitis (Sep 12, 2005)

Lurker1 said:


> If there is some magic secret that causes this to work, I don't know what it is. It just always worked for me from the very first time I tried it. Here is an example of my metadata files of two videos that group into one folder after pulling onto my Roamio OTA:
> 
> default.txt:
> 
> ...


So this worked for a pull to my Roamio, but not to a Tivo HD. Does anyone have the secret for pulling to a Tivo HD (into a group folder)?


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Tivoitis said:


> So this worked for a pull to my Roamio, but not to a Tivo HD. Does anyone have the secret for pulling to a Tivo HD (into a group folder)?


I'm pretty sure it only works for the HDUI, so no.


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## sjmyst (Apr 24, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> I'm pretty sure it only works for the HDUI, so no.


Since I can no longer push using pyTivo (since August) and can no longer push using TiVo Desktop Plus (since last two weeks), I'm becoming VERY interested in using PULL. However, it will only be interesting if I can group the files I am pulling to the TiVo into proper group folders (preferably of my choosing).

I see above where Tivoitis (thanks for the example meta files) says pull grouping worked for him for his Roamio. If I understood correctly, he just placed pyTivo format meta files into the same directory on his PC as the video file he wants to pull. And, then went to his Roamio TiVo and did "Transfer this recording" (or however it says it on the Roamio).

lpwcomp thinks it only works on HDUI TiVo's. But, I have a Premiere that does have the HDUI interface (if I understood lpwcomp correctly about what HDUI means). And, it didn't work for my Premiere.

Here is what I did in case I'm just not "doing it right":

On my PC:
1. Create a new "share" folder in C:\Users\<me>\Videos\Tech
2. Open TDP and create a "share" entry:
a. Click "Share Music, Photos & Videos" from main TDP window (bottom icon)
b. Click the "Video" tab
c. Click "Add Video..." button to open popup
c1. Click "Video" on the left panel
c2. Select "Tech" on the right panel
c3. Click "Add" button
c4. Since I can no longer link to my Tivo Account my only choice is to select "No, don't auto-tranfer" and click "OK" button. This creates my TDP share and causes the "Tech" folder to now appear on my Premiere in the NPL under the very last entry at the bottom "PC: Now Playing on "HOME-PC"
3. Copy a test MP4 file I have twice and name both files to match the names that Tivoitis has above.
4. Copy the three meta files exactly like Tivoitis has above into my Tech share directory I just created.
5. Go to my Premiere and:
a. Pull both files
a1. Go to NPL to the bottom and select "PC: Now Playing on "HOME-PC" to open a list of files from my PC. I now see "Tech(2)".
a2. Open "Tech(2)" to see both files. They both have the unreadable names ('_ckZpFq-G3A' and 'lKXP_jNsZLg').
a3. Select each file and go in and select "Transfer this recording".
a4. Watch the Premiere pull each file.

The result is each file is NOT grouped.

I then go to my PC and access the Premiere using (thanks to wmcbrine and morac for this):

https://<Premiere's IP Address>/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=/NowPlaying&Recurse=Yes&ItemCount=50&AnchorOffset=0

I see that neither uploaded file has metadata for "seriesId" (which I assume is why they don't group). And, also doesn't have any of the metadata from the meta files I placed in the Tech "share" folder. So, it seems the Premiere isn't using those meta files at all.

I've seen where others in forums have talked about "attaching" metadata to the actual file to be pulled. My assumption here is that if the metadata is in the actual MP4 file (or whatever extension), that the TiVo is more likely to see and use that metadata.

However, I'm not easily finding out how to do this. I've downloaded a free tool called 'exiftool'. It seems pretty powerful and allows me to view metadata on files. But, when I tried to use it to add the 'seriesId' to one of my test MP4 files, it didn't like how I was attempting it. It didn't seem to like the 'seriesId' value. I've downloaded a few other tools, but so far nothing looks promising.

Anyway, has anyone been able to attached "TiVo" metadata to files?

I'm thinking if I can attach the right metadata (mainly 'seriesId'), that I can pull and my Premiere will group properly.

If I can get this working, I may never go back to the flaky TiVo Mind server push method (even though there is the obvious advantage of auto push). For me, it's not "auto" if I have to "kick" the TDP server (I've found various methods that used to work) every other time it's supposed to auto push.

Regards,
sjmyst


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

You have to use pyTivo to do the pull. TiVo Desktop does not recognize metadata text files.


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## sjmyst (Apr 24, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> You have to use pyTivo to do the pull. TiVo Desktop does not recognize metadata text files.


I guess I'm not completely understanding your comment.

I think I agree with you're statement that TiVo Desktop doesn't recognize pyTivo metadata files (not that you need me to agree with you, but I do think I understand that part). At least that my Premiere with TDP isn't understanding it.

But, did you mean that I have to use pyTivo to do the PUSH? I'm moving files from the PC to the TiVo. I think pyTivo doesn't participate in any pull operation that moves files from PC to TiVo. At least that's my current understanding.

When I read this post (earlier in this thread) by Lurker1:

pytivo: Session cannot be authenticated; try login again

It made me think the Lurker1 was using a Roamio to PULL (using menu selections on the Roamio to initiate the pull from the PC) and that pyTivo format metadata files seemed to be honored by the Roamio. At least the files seemed to look like pyTivo format metadata files as described here (and in his post):

Metadata - pyTivo - Wiki

I wouldn't think the pyTivo program would actually participate in this PULL. I would think that the TiVo Server started by TDP would have to be the one involved since it's the only TiVo product do interface with on the PC. Lurker1's post seemed to imply to me that Roamio was honoring pyTivo format metadata files. But, maybe I read too much into his description.

So, like I said above, I don't really understand how to pull a file from my PC to my Premiere using pyTivo. I only know how to push from PC to a TiVo using pyTivo. Which by the way, I had working beautifully until about August when TiVo broke pyTivo and push stopped working for me (authentication error that others are also getting). Now TDP push is also not working, so I'm out of push options. Both worked relatively well for me when the Mind Server wasn't out of it's mind.

Regards,
sjmyst


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

sjmyst said:


> I think pyTivo doesn't participate in any pull operation that moves files from PC to TiVo. At least that's my current understanding.


Your understanding is incorrect. pyTivo can provide shares to the TiVo, accessible from the TiVo's menus, in exactly the same way as TiVo Desktop; and of course, it's only in this way that pyTivo metadata would be used.

pyTivo does not depend on TiVo Desktop in any way, nor does it interfere with it.


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

sjmyst said:


> I guess I'm not completely understanding your comment.


To use the metadata files, you need to run pyTivo INSTEAD of TiVo Desktop. pyTivo provides the same server functionality that TiVo Desktop does, with many added benefits. I deleted TiVo Desktop years ago and use pyTivo instead.


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## sjmyst (Apr 24, 2004)

wmcbrine said:


> Your understanding is incorrect. pyTivo can provide shares to the TiVo, accessible from the TiVo's menus, in exactly the same way as TiVo Desktop; and of course, it's only in this way that pyTivo metadata would be used.
> 
> pyTivo does not depend on TiVo Desktop in any way, nor does it interfere with it.


Thank you for that clarification.

I am aware of shares in pyTivo. I just incorrectly thought it was only used for push. I had hidden all of those shares on my TiVo because I was only using push and the shares just cluttered up the NPL. I never even went into a pyTivo share on the TiVo because I was more focused on auto push at the time (I implement some scripts to do the "auto" part of the push). But, it makes sense now that I think about it.

Just curious. Is there an option I don't know about that moves all of the shares that show up at the bottom of the NPL (when I don't have a a "_tivo_TSN" with "None" in the Shares field) into a folder similar to what TDP does for it's version of shares? I had about 15-20 shares before the Mind server broke. So, my NPL was much less organized (at least for me) with all of those pyTivo shares at the bottom of NPL. For me, it would be more organized if they were in a folder at the top level NPL with all of the pyTivo shares inside of it (like TDP does).



Lurker1 said:


> To use the metadata files, you need to run pyTivo INSTEAD of TiVo Desktop. pyTivo provides the same server functionality that TiVo Desktop does, with many added benefits. I deleted TiVo Desktop years ago and use pyTivo instead.


Thank you also for reminding me that pyTivo shares could show up on the NPL list on the TiVo. I was using TDP "shares" (their version), since I was under the mistaken impression that you were doing the same (since I was unaware of pyTivo pull), I was thinking that the TiVo was somehow supporting those metadata files. The more I think about it now, the more it doesn't make sense for TDP to have supported those files.

Several years ago, I started off with TDP and had built up about 20 "shares" there. I eventually created my first pyTivo share when I had a file that just wouldn't transfer under TDP, and I figured out that pyTivo did the trick (I agree that pyTivo is better; this was just one example). Over time I moved shows over to pyTivo push.

But, this August, pyTivo push stopped working for me. The issues seemed to be related to the TiVo Mind server. Everyone kept saying that both pyTivo and TDP were both affected by the Mind server issue. But, for me, pyTivo was getting an authentication failure error. TDP continued to work well (as well as TDP ever worked) for me from August until about two weeks ago. Then, TDP also quit working (TiVo is working on it at a snails pace). I went back an tried pyTivo again, and was still getting the pyTivo authentication errors for push.

That's when I started to focus on using pull instead of push (since both of my push option were now broken). I had never used pull with pyTivo and had forgotten that I had hidden the shares in the NPL list a couple of years ago. So, I incorrectly thought that pull was only available via TDP. Obviously, that was incorrect. Thank you both again for clarifying that.

If I can get a good pull working, I may just stick with that. The Mind server is just too flaky and frustrates the #(%^* out of me (even thought I've figured out several ways to "kick" TDP to get stuff working again).

BTW, I was able to get pyTivo pull to group just like it had been working for me before. Now if I could just figure out a way to have all of my shares put into a subfolder on my NPL, I would be happy to go to a manual pull over the flaky Mind server push.

Regards,
sjmyst


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Why do you have that many shares?


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

It sounds like he pointed the share to the individual movies/shows rather than a top level folder titled TV or Movies and he may not use a folder like that if he keeps all the media on one drive. I used to do it this way when I had a drive for TV and a drive for movies and then named the drive. When I started using things like Plex and PyTiVo and my library grew over multiple drives, I changed this. 

Of course now with my library and Pushes broken, pulls are a challenge when you have a large library since you have no way to jump to a specific letter or quickly scroll through in the SD screens.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

If he wants to limit the "clutter", then he should have only one share per drive. All of the "shares" on a drive should be sub-folders under the share folder.


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## sjmyst (Apr 24, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> If he wants to limit the "clutter", then he should have only one share per drive. All of the "shares" on a drive should be sub-folders under the share folder.


Ahh... I get it. I didn't think about folder within folder being supported. Thanks!!

I have so many shares because I use them like TiVo does for individual TV shows. So, I have a share for each of my sports teams. I have shares for each "show" or podcast I retrieve from the internet that I can't get OTA (I don't pay for cable). For example, one share for Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee. Another for The Daily Show. Basically one for each "source" of content I get from the internet and push (or now pull) to my TiVo.

Regards,
sjmyst


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

Since push broke, I switched to using one "transfer" folder for all of my internet content, which makes it a little easier to pull them all. I have a script running that monitors the pyTivo log file and moves each video out of the transfer folder when the pull completes.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

I normally use pull anyway when it's a local xfer.

Things would be really messy for me if pyTivo didn't support sub-folders as I have episodes from around 200 different series.


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## kbgators (Dec 28, 2012)

I know this is not the thread or site for this, but given I have 7 tivos (roamio and 6 minis) and the TiVo push via pytivo was best way to combine home/downloaded media with live TV: have any of you now considered Roku and SlingTV/PSVUE? 
I'm going to be testing both Roku and Fire TV devices, with Sling and PSVUE. Both these devices allow Plex access for local media, Sling or PSVUE for live TV, plus simple access to Netflix and other subscriptions. 

Any experiences to share about the switch that you like/dislike?
(I realize there are other sites for this but I'm concerned with experiences of TiVo users who migrated off after being used to pushing their media to TiVo)


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

kbgators said:


> Any experiences to share about the switch that you like/dislike?


Be sure to share your experiences from the test with us. We are always interested in better alternatives.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

According to whom is _*push*_ the



kbgators said:


> best way to combine home/downloaded media with live TV


?

How are your alternatives better than *pull*?


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> According to whom is _*push*_ the
> best way to combine home/downloaded media with live TV?
> How are your alternatives better than *pull*?


You didn't ask me, but for me push was better because it could be automated. It can be tedious to pull hundreds of videos one-by-one. It was impossible when the spinning blue circles were rampant.


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

The question in reference to kbgators was how is Sling/PSVue and Plex equivalent to the desire to have downloaded/home videos alongside recorded TV?

To be clear - I hear what you're saying. The appeal of pyTivo to me was that transferred videos lived side-by-side with recorded video in the same NPL list -- something not attainable with Plex on TiVo.

However - with the recent guide issues, I'm nearing the end of my time with TiVo. I still hold out hope that something will be done and my guide issues will be fixed as I don't want to have to move on - but I'm also not going to continue to pay the bill each month for something that now means I have to use manual recording for some of the channels available. I have a deadline circled on the calendar in which I believe I have been more than generous in allocated timetable. If the issue is not corrected by that date -- then the call is made and TiVo's go up for sale either on the For Sale site here or on Ebay.

Regarding the desire to have the single interface for recordings and transferred - I'm looking at possibly Tablo. The Plex DVR would be ideal - but the current limitations with live TV may disqualify that option. Tablo has 3rd party user-created tools that pull recordings. So - instead of pyTivo transferring videos to live alongside recordings, I would be doing the reverse and pulling recordings off of Tablo and moving them into Plex libraries.

This, I believe, comes closer to the desire to have the transferred/recorded video convergence -- at least to a closer degree than trying to use a Plex and Sling/PSVue system.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Lurker1 said:


> You didn't ask me, but for me push was better because it could be automated. It can be tedious to pull hundreds of videos one-by-one. It was impossible when the spinning blue circles were rampant.


The question was not whether or not push was preferable to pull, but whether or not the alternatives he proposed were better than a pyTivo pull.

Plus there is no way that either method is objectively "best".


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> The question was not whether or not push was preferable to pull, but whether or not the alternatives he proposed were better than a pyTivo pull.
> 
> Plus there is no way that either method is objectively "best".


You asked who says push is best. I simply meant that it was best for me. I would love for someone to describe a substitute that is just as good as push was.


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## jtdon99 (Oct 26, 2014)

lpwcomp said:


> The question was not whether or not push was preferable to pull, but whether or not the alternatives he proposed were better than a pyTivo pull.
> 
> Plus there is no way that either method is objectively "best".


Pushes are easy - doing more then a few pulls is a pain


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

jtdon99 said:


> Pushes are easy - doing more then a few pulls is a pain


That is a completely subjective evaluation.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

As far as looking for an alternative, is there any other platform where live tv, tv recordings, locally stored video and the ability to schedule OTA recordings all exist together in one UI?


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

At the moment - Kodi's ability to bring together separate backend and frontend systems may be closest. Setup requires possible investment in equipment and knowledge. I'm not familiar with Kodi's use in a DVR system, so can't comment on complexity of setup or usage.

In the future - the next possible candidate would be Plex DVR. No live TV yet - and I'm not sure when (or if) that will be possible. 

A combo of Plex and Tablo ticks the functionality boxes -- but doesn't satisfy your single UI requirement like TiVo currently does.


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## jtdon99 (Oct 26, 2014)

lpwcomp said:


> That is a completely subjective evaluation.


OK, lets look at moving 10 videos from a PC to a Tivo.

Push 10 videos
run pytivo 1 mouse click
open browser & click localhost link on bookmarks bar 2 mc
select share 1 mc
select 10 videos to push 10 mc
select tivo unit (if you have more then 1 tivo) 1 mc
select send to tivo 1 mc
Total 16 mouse clicks

Pull 10 videos 
run pytivo 1 mouse click
on tivo remote select my shows 2 button push
press forward skip button 1 bp
select share 1 bp
select video to pull 1 bp 
select transfer video 1 bp
select continue browsing share 1 bp
repeat above 3 items 9 more times 27 bp
total 1 mouse click, 34 button clicks

So, are you sure I'm the one who's subjective.


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

jtdon99 said:


> OK, lets look at moving 10 videos from a PC to a Tivo.
> 
> Push 10 videos
> Total 16 mouse clicks
> ...


And this doesn't even consider that the entire push process could be completely automated:

Push 20 - 40 videos every day, as they are automatically downloaded from web
Total 0 mouse clicks, 0 button clicks

Pull 20 - 40 videos every day, as they are automatically downloaded from web
Total way too many button clicks to count


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## kbgators (Dec 28, 2012)

Lurker1 said:


> You didn't ask me, but for me push was better because it could be automated. It can be tedious to pull hundreds of videos one-by-one. It was impossible when the spinning blue circles were rampant.


This is why Push is better, because it's automated the moment something is downloaded. Plus I can't Pull from a TiVo mini.


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## kbgators (Dec 28, 2012)

eherberg said:


> The question in reference to kbgators was how is Sling/PSVue and Plex equivalent to the desire to have downloaded/home videos alongside recorded TV?
> 
> To be clear - I hear what you're saying. The appeal of pyTivo to me was that transferred videos lived side-by-side with recorded video in the same NPL list -- something not attainable with Plex on TiVo.
> 
> ...


I don't know anything about Tablo, I'll have to read up. But what will you do for Live TV? Does Tablo use a cablecard from cable company?


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## kbgators (Dec 28, 2012)

jcthorne said:


> As far as looking for an alternative, is there any other platform where live tv, tv recordings, locally stored video and the ability to schedule OTA recordings all exist together in one UI?


That's what I'm looking for now that I can't automate Pushes via pytivo anymore. Plex via TiVo to get downloaded content is a hassle and makes me deal with 2 environments, not one converge one.


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## kbgators (Dec 28, 2012)

Lurker1 said:


> And this doesn't even consider that the entire push process could be completely automated:
> 
> Push 20 - 40 videos every day, as they are automatically downloaded from web
> Total 0 mouse clicks, 0 button clicks
> ...


Agree


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

You're all looking it from the viewpoint of what *you* do . That is the antithesis of objective.


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## kbgators (Dec 28, 2012)

lpwcomp said:


> You're all looking it from the viewpoint of what *you* do . That is the antithesis of objective.


Huh?


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

kbgators said:


> I don't know anything about Tablo, I'll have to read up. But what will you do for Live TV? Does Tablo use a cablecard from cable company?


I'm one of those wacky cordcutters - and did it before it got trendy. So I don't have to worry about cablecards. In fact - that's when I bought my first TiVo. I still wanted a DVR and cool guide - and I also needed a pretty high level of wife buy-in when we first dropped cable. TiVo Premiere had just been released and it seemed to tick both boxes. She's so used to online sources and OTA now - she wouldn't go back to cable for any incentive. We've both been pretty pleased in constructing the 'Cord Cutter's Paradise' in the last 6 - 7 years with TiVo being the centerpiece of that. So we're not thrilled about having to reconstruct things if changing to a Plex-centered system -- but we're also not going to stand for having to use manual recordings due to missing guide channels. I could live with losing push from pyTivo - but the guide data is simply non-negotiable. We both like the Plex interface - but the pain-in-ass of switching out hardware is something we would prefer not to do.

And we still like TiVo. Up until very recently - we were completely happy. But I am not going to continue to invest in a service that doesn't provide it's primary offering (the data) for a main OTA channel. Especially when the previous provider in Gracenote did. Just as I was willing to give up cable when cost/benefit didn't provide enough value - so will that step be taken for TiVo. Posting month-after-month about dissatisfaction with a service while still using and paying month-after-month? Nope. Not for me. Decide what feature is something that is simply a must-have and what features I could live without if they never came back ... and then act accordingly.


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## kbgators (Dec 28, 2012)

eherberg said:


> I'm one of those wacky cordcutters - and did it before it got trendy. So I don't have to worry about cablecards. In fact - that's when I bought my first TiVo. I still wanted a DVR and cool guide - and I also needed a pretty high level of wife buy-in when we first dropped cable. TiVo Premiere had just been released and it seemed to tick both boxes. She's so used to online sources and OTA now - she wouldn't go back to cable for any incentive. We've both been pretty pleased in constructing the 'Cord Cutter's Paradise' in the last 6 - 7 years with TiVo being the centerpiece of that. So we're not thrilled about having to reconstruct things if changing to a Plex-centered system -- but we're also not going to stand for having to use manual recordings due to missing guide channels. I could live with losing push from pyTivo - but the guide data is simply non-negotiable. We both like the Plex interface - but the pain-in-ass of switching out hardware is something we would prefer not to do.
> 
> And we still like TiVo. Up until very recently - we were completely happy. But I am not going to continue to invest in a service that doesn't provide it's primary offering (the data) for a main OTA channel. Especially when the previous provider in Gracenote did. Just as I was willing to give up cable when cost/benefit didn't provide enough value - so will that step be taken for TiVo. Posting month-after-month about dissatisfaction with a service while still using and paying month-after-month? Nope. Not for me. Decide what feature is something that is simply a must-have and what features I could live without if they never came back ... and then act accordingly.


So then what do you think you will change to?
Again, I'll be testing Roku & Fire TV, with Sling and PS Vue.


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## kbgators (Dec 28, 2012)

P.S. I have to have two live items: sports and foxnews. The rest can be ondemand


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

eherberg said:


> And we still like TiVo. Up until very recently - we were completely happy.


Same here. We've been happy with TiVo for over 15 years, until this year. First strike was the pervasive audio dropouts on Netflix. We switched to Roku for Netflix. Second strike was the loss of push. We switched to pull (a poor substitute). Third strike was the screwed up program guide and missed recordings. What is next?

(Oh, there was also the blue spinning circles which made it difficult to watch anything for a week.)


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Lurker1 said:


> You seem to think this is a debate. We are TiVo users trying to help other TiVo users.


What started this particular discussion was the statement that Push was the "best" way to transfer content from a PC to TiVo and asking for advice on replacing this capability with other hardware. Try to keep up.

Even before this major failure, push would sometimes fail if the mind server was having problems. And up until relatively recently, push got very little of the metadata and would not group with actual recording of the same series.

Currently, pull is infinitely superior because it actually works and I see no real evidence that TiVo is actively working on a fix.


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

kbgators said:


> So then what do you think you will change to?
> Again, I'll be testing Roku & Fire TV, with Sling and PS Vue.


We're starting to veer wildly off-topic for this thread - so I'll summarize briefly and then go back to posting only about pyTivo in this thread. 

My hope is that I don't have to change to anything. Maybe my guide problem is fixed. If push never comes back, I can live with pull. I'll simply start the transfer right before watching and we will be fine. If missing guide problems aren't fixed - then I think we will move to a Plex system and a 'short-term/long-term' approach. I would prefer to have a single interface and would like to use the Plex DVR currently in beta. But live-TV is the missing piece. Although they have said they are interested in live-TV, that is not an acknowledgement that it will be coming (or is even being worked on). So - short-term solution is to use Plex with a cheap Iview/Mediasonic live TV filler. Gracenote guide data w/Plex DVR, so data issues fixed. The live TV portion is simply for football sunday's when i match up the video with my local radio-call stream. I'll use that short-term for a few months or so while getting a feel for the possibility of live-TV with the Plex DVR. It's so cheap, I don't mind using it as a throw-away system, and it's such a basic/featureless product, I can't give it serious long-term consideration anyway. If it appears that there is no movement towards a live-TV solution, then the Tablo will likely be the long-term solution. It still uses Gracenote data so my guide problems would be solved. I can pull recordings off the Tablo and place them into a Plex library for single-interface access. More work than I would be hoping for ... but a solution that we could live with. The ChannelMaster product uses Rovi as a guide source - so that is out of consideration. Plus - a long-term solution that involves waiting for a time when no recordings are being made so the hard drive can be pulled from the ChannelMaster DVR in order to transfer recordings is a non-starter for me right there.

Hopefully - my must-have's get fixed w/TiVo. As it involves sub-grouping of channels in the insanely large DMA they have us in and the inclusion of Canadian channels they currently don't include -- I'm doubtful. But who knows? I at least will give them a fair chance of doing so. But if they don't - I'm not going to hang around complaining about it. I'll tag-out and support somebody else who does.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

I still fail to see how the proposed alternatives are superior to pulling recordings to the TiVo.


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## truegalbklyn (Aug 9, 2012)

Finally got Py up and working and attempted to transfer a file from my computer to my TiVo and ended up with this message... 

I am assuming that is the problem everyone is having with no real solution?


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

truegalbklyn said:


> Finally got Py up and working and attempted to transfer a file from my computer to my TiVo and ended up with this message...
> 
> I am assuming that is the problem everyone is having with no real solution?


The "solution" is to pull it to your TiVo.


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## truegalbklyn (Aug 9, 2012)

lpwcomp said:


> The "solution" is to pull it to your TiVo.


Yes, that worked. TY very much. Hopefully TiVo is able to rectify whatever issue caused this problem with Desktop + and Py pushing. But this is a decent workaround for the time being. I thank you.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

truegalbklyn said:


> Finally got Py up and working and attempted to transfer a file from my computer to my TiVo and ended up with this message...
> 
> I am assuming that is the problem everyone is having with no real solution?


That's what I get initially, but after multiple attempts I eventually get


```
</debug><text>Deprecated Operation: bodyOfferModify</text></error>
```


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## kbgators (Dec 28, 2012)

lpwcomp said:


> I still fail to see how the proposed alternatives are superior to pulling recordings to the TiVo.


Again. 1. Can't pull from a mini 2. Programs like Sickbeard would AUTOMATICALLY PUSH to Tivo when a download was completed. These are huge reasons.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

kbgators said:


> Again. 1. Can't pull from a mini 2. Programs like Sickbeard would AUTOMATICALLY PUSH to Tivo when a download was completed. These are huge reasons.


Again, how does that make *the alternatives *(Roku, etc) better?


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

With 3000+ videos and counting, pulls are just not a reasonable option. Even if the TiVo download display were decent - which it isn't, it still just wouldn't begin to compare to a properly managed database such as is offered by pyTivo Video Manager. Spending 10 minutes just to get to the video title I want to play is not reasonable. Add to that the fact the videos have to be transcoded when pulled, and it just doesn't fly.

Let me ask you something, if you don't mind. 'No offense intended, at all, but you have had this big woody for the metadata transfer as long as this forum is around, and I just don't understand it one bit. Don't you know what you just transferred? If I want to know details about the video - and I often do, far more of such than the minuscule amount transferred by a pull, I almost always want to know before I transfer the video, not after, and in the fairly unusual event I do want to go back and look at something concerning a video, pulling up Video Manager is little more trouble than pulling up the info screen, as well as far more informative.

In any case, unless something more positive happens, TiVo is done getting money from me. If it means cobbling together my own video client, then so be it. KODI (formerly XBMC) is open source. There's probably something there worthwhile. I haven't investigated because until now I was happy enough with TiVo.


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

lrhorer said:


> I haven't investigated because until now I was happy enough with TiVo.


TiVo, Inc. is actively motivating long-time TiVo loyalists like you and I to investigate alternatives. This does not bode well for the future of the company.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

I don't really give a rodent's posterior what your preferences are. You can say "no offense intended" but I find your use of the phrase "big woody for the metadata transfer" very offensive. And I am far from alone in my preference. Plus, if I xfer a bunch of episodes of a TV show, it sure is nice to have the season and episode numbers displayed.

As far as not knowing what you transferred goes, don't you know what you want to watch w/o resorting to a db that gives you a selection based on criteria?

Pull is not dependent on an external server. Even before this latest debacle, there were times when the server was unavailable for days. Further, while this particular factor is not important to me, a pull does not create a recording that can't be streamed remotely.

Having said that, I definitely hope they get push working again, as I used to push a lot of stuff to a remote TiVo. Now I am back to sneaker net. Unfortunately, I have no real hope that it will be.

BTW, I have 5000+ recordings. Just on my NAS, I have 3600+ episodes of 179 TV shows and over 1000 movies.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Lurker1 said:


> TiVo, Inc. is actively motivating long-time TiVo loyalists like you and I to investigate alternatives. This does not bode well for the future of the company.


I think it is more a case of the the new owners don't care, rather than actively trying to drive users away.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> I don't really give a rodent's posterior what your preferences are.


But everyone else should care about yours? In point of fact, my very query suggests I am interested in your motivation, at the very least.



lpwcomp said:


> You can say "no offense intended" but I find your use of the phrase "big woody for the metadata transfer" very offensive.


I have no idea why it would offend anyone, but OK, I apologize. Would, "Your posts over the years show you are heavily invested in the information provided by a pull", be less offensive? Your post notwithstanding, the question remains.



lpwcomp said:


> And I am far from alone in my preference.


I don't know that to be the case or not, but I certainly don't recall anyone who was so adamantly wedded to the preference.



lpwcomp said:


> Plus, if I xfer a bunch of episodes of a TV show, it sure is nice to have the season and episode numbers displayed.


Again, why? What does it add to the enjoyment of the show? Not that I have very many TV series recorded, but I do have some episodes of 6 different series and complete episode sets of 4 others. I don't understand why anyone would care in the very least what specific season and episode a particular recording might be. Sorting by air date on the server I can completely understand, but It gives me no satisfaction whatsoever to know I am about to watch or just finished watching Season 4 Episode 2 of Wings or JAG. Can you explain it to me?

It's also trivial to embed that information in one of the fields the push does transfer, BTW.



lpwcomp said:


> As far as not knowing what you transferred goes, don't you know what you want to watch w/o resorting to a db that gives you a selection based on criteria?


No usually, not. Do you always know what you want to order at a restaurant without looking at the menu? Even at my favorite restaurants, I still glance at the menu to see if something other than what I have in mind may strike my fancy. I don't know about you, but I most certainly cannot recall all the videos I have on my server without looking at the list. Actually, I say I don't know about you, but I bet I do. I certainly know all 50 states in the U.S., and so do most Americans, but not 1 in 1000 can actually name all 50 states without resorting to a reference, even if they write them down. Far less am I able to remember all the titles on my server. Give me the name of a movie, and there is a pretty good chance I can tell you whether I have it recorded, or not. Ask me to tell you all the videos I have? Forget it. Above you say you have over 1000 movies on your NAS. I *SERIOUSLY* doubt you could list even 500 of them off the top of your head without looking at the list - which would take you several minutes, perhaps even close to 10. For that matter, I find it highly unlikely you can name more than 100 or so of the TV series you have on your server without looking, unless you are one of those exceedingly rare individuals with an eidetic memory. I surely am not, and neither are most TiVo users.

More importantly, my guests, who most often are the ones selecting the show to watch, have absolutely no idea what is on my server. Finally, whether it is they or I who am selecting the show, we almost always want to watch some specific genre, like "Comedy", "Western", or if they have their kids with them, "Animated" or perhaps "Family". Do I sometimes have a specific show in mind to watch before I even sit down? Surely. 'Maybe 20% of the time, if that. Even then, however, using the pull takes typically several minutes to select the video (unless it is The Adams Family or Zorba the Greek) as opposed to 5 or 6 seconds at most using Video Manager.



lpwcomp said:


> Pull is not dependent on an external server. Even before this latest debacle, there were times when the server was unavailable for days.


Oh, yeah. Believe me, I hate that, and not just on the TiVo. There is absolutely no way I would ever choose to handle anything via a remote server if I have any choice at all.



lpwcomp said:


> Further, while this particular factor is not important to me, a pull does not create a recording that can't be streamed remotely.


Absolutely. I am not saying the push is by any means an ideal situation, merely that the pull is unacceptable. The push was only marginally acceptable when it was working. Now neither is. I have no particular preference or affection for either utility. Frankly, they both suck at both the low level and the user level, but at least the push can be programmatically altered to a point where it becomes quite usable - when it works.



lpwcomp said:


> Having said that, I definitely hope they get push working again, as I used to push a lot of stuff to a remote TiVo. Now I am back to sneaker net.


Sneaker net? Really? I can hardly imagine that, although I suppose with an external hard drive it wouldn't be too terrible.



lpwcomp said:


> Unfortunately, I have no real hope that it will be.


Me, either.



lpwcomp said:


> BTW, I have 5000+ recordings. Just on my NAS, I have 3600+ episodes of 179 TV shows and over 1000 movies.


The 179 shows are not too difficult - assuming you have segregated each series in some fashion. At roughly 4 directories per second, one can navigate from A - Z in about 44 seconds. Dividing up the series into sub-folders A - Z cuts that down to about 10 seconds or so to get to the list of series starting with your target letter, and getting to the series name will only take another 4 seconds or so. If you divide the series up by season, then you may only need 10-15 more seconds to find the episode or group of episode you want - assuming you have all the episode names and numbers more or less memorized.

The 1000 movies are another matter. In my case, it's well over 2500. It takes more than 4 minutes just to get from the top of the list to the middle of the list on my server using the Now Playing menu without reading any of the titles. Trying to sort out all the comedies in the list just by looking at all the names? Forget it. For the moment, if this isn't fixed or circumvented by the new year, what I will do is create a separate share of 27 folders divided up alphabetically for the movies, use pyTivo Video Manager to select the video I want, and then pull the video by hand. It's terribly slow, but not nearly so dreadfully slow as trying to use the pull by itself on a list of 2500+ titles.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

I too long preferred push for various reasons.

But just for this discussion, season and episode numbers came across fine for the last year or so as long as the ProgramId was correct. So for tv shows, it got most of the metadata that was needed on the tivo via a push. For movies I never really wanted more than title and description anyway. For any further information I usually looked things up elsewhere. 

For the way I use the tivo system, push just worked far better. Pull is a PIA.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

_lrhorer,
_
*You *are the one that has insisted over the years and continues to insist with this post that a *Push *initiated via Vidmgr is the only viable option under all circumstances for everyone. Not everyone wants the same things you do. Nor should they be denigrated if they don't. You are the one who has the attitude "If I don't care about something, then neither should anyone else. If I do care about something, then so should everyone else."

In this particular thread, I have simply inquired of some people why they can't use pull if push isn't working. There were actually some who didn't realize that it was even an option. I also understand that push using Vidmger is by far the best option for Mini users, but right now and maybe from now on, using a full TiVo to pull is the only thing that works. Come to think of it though - can you initiate a stream via Vidmgr and does that work? I suppose there's also Plex.

I don't care about genre's, categories, etc. I don't decide "I want to watch a comedy" so need a list of comedies. I decide that I want to watch a specific movie. I do have the movies split up alphabetically and in some cases by series. No, I don't have the list memorized. Truth be told, I don't actually watch movies that often. Mostly it's a case of "binge" watching a TV series. Do I wish that there was an easier way to queue up multiple pulls? Absolutely. But I "fer dang sure"(movie quote) don't want to be dependent upon the TiVo servers.

For sneaker net, I am using a 128GB USB 3.0 flash drive.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Let's give the issue some perspective:

Tools like pytivo, kmttg, Vidmgr were never directly or indirectly supported by tivo.
Push was used to allow automatic downloading of selected podcasts. Tivo abandoned that years ago.
The major functions marketed by tivo for TTG is now accomplished by apps. Remember one of the "work flows" was to download to your PC, burn to a DVD so you could play the show on your laptop while traveling.

Tivo no long supports TTG.
Tivo never positioned itself as a front end for private VoD libraries totaling hundreds, maybe thousands, of programs.
It's good that posters like _lrhorer _were able to fine tune their libraries, with the assistance of third party tools, to get the exact viewing experience they want. It's unreasonable to think tivo should devote any resources to fixing "broken" features which tivo effectively dropped years ago.

Plex support probably is the most popular video server. I think Roamio requires 720p, or lower, resolution with a somewhat low bitrate.


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

Would it be too much to ask for TiVo, Inc. to provide a statement of their position on this issue?

"Push functionality is discontinued. It will not be fixed."
"We are aware of the problem and have assigned it a low priority. We will fix it when we have nothing better to do."
"Top men are working urgently to correct this critical flaw. A remedy will be forthcoming posthaste."

My guess is the first statement is the correct one.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

TiVos latest suggested "fix" is here.

While I doubt that this will work, the fact that TD has been made available for d/l from _*TiVo*_ is somewhat interesting.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Lurker1 said:


> Would it be too much to ask for TiVo, Inc. to provide a statement of their position on this issue?
> 
> "Push functionality is discontinued. It will not be fixed."
> "We are aware of the problem and have assigned it a low priority. We will fix it when we have nothing better to do."
> ...


Tivo stopped making those kinds of statements years ago. They announced the end of support for tivodesktop which kind of suggests number 1. I'll speculate push will only come back by accident.

Asking too much, maybe not. Maybe tivo doesn't want a bunch of complaints.



lpwcomp said:


> TiVos latest suggested "fix" is here.
> 
> While I doubt that this will work, the fact that TD has been made available for d/l from _*TiVo*_ is somewhat interesting.


Not at all interesting, JMO. TD has always been available, just not shown anywhere. You needed to know the link.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lurker1 said:


> Would it be too much to ask for TiVo, Inc. to provide a statement of their position on this issue?
> 
> "Push functionality is discontinued. It will not be fixed."
> "We are aware of the problem and have assigned it a low priority. We will fix it when we have nothing better to do."
> ...


Really? I'm sure it's the third.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

lew said:


> Not at all interesting, JMO. TD has always been available, just not shown anywhere. You needed to know the link.


Really? Ever since TiVo dropped support for TD, the only links to d/l it I have seen are to third party sites.



wmcbrine said:


> Really? I'm sure it's the third.


Exactly what I was thinking.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> Really? Ever since TiVo dropped support for TD, the only links to d/l it I have seen are to third party sites.
> 
> Exactly what I was thinking.


VideoRedo requires at least a partial install to directly handle tivo encrypted files. Dan has been posting the direct link to TD (on tivo.com), as requested by posters, for as long as tivo dropped support.


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

Lurker1 said:


> Would it be too much to ask for TiVo, Inc. to provide a statement of their position on this issue?
> 
> "Push functionality is discontinued. It will not be fixed."
> "We are aware of the problem and have assigned it a low priority. We will fix it when we have nothing better to do."
> ...


Hasn't Ira already pretty much stated this in his 20 questions regarding pc-to-tivo transfer?


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

eherberg said:


> Hasn't Ira already pretty much stated this in his 20 questions regarding pc-to-tivo transfer?


I found these relevant quotes:

"This isn't ideal, but the *PC transfer is no longer a supported feature on our platform*."

"We understand that there is a hole that was left when TiVo Desktop and Desktop Plus were EOL'd. There were some external reasons why we had to EOL that product. We are presently trying to get a replacement on the technology roadmap."

Depending on how you interpret these seemingly-conflicting statements, I guess we are lucky that transfers work at all.


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

His response from this thread 20 Questions with Ira Bahr - TiVo's Chief Marketing Officer



Ira Bahr said:


> As far as the impact on those using TiVo Desktop software, some programs recorded before the guide data update (using Gracenote data) that are restored afterwards (using Rovi data) may see odd metadata changes. This will happen mostly for less popular shows. This isn't ideal, but the *PC transfer is no longer a supported feature on our platform*. As for the mobile app, this continues to be a supported platform and will be transitioned fully as with all of our existing software platforms.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> Really? Ever since TiVo dropped support for TD, the only links to d/l it I have seen are to third party sites.


This link has been posted numerous times here in a number of forums.

http://assets.tivo.com/assets/exe/tivotogo/TiVoDesktop2.8.3.exe

Scott


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

pyTivo Discussion Forum :: View topic - Goodbye Push


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

ah well, it was nice while it lasted


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## limoman (Mar 27, 2003)

I have to be honest - I didn't read all 179 posts up to this point. But if you still have a need to link your Desktop Plus program to your TiVo account, this is the login process that works for me:

Enter your email address in all caps. Then your password. *If that doesn't work*, enter the info and instead of clicking the NEXT button, keep hitting ENTER on the keyboard until it logs you in. Took about 6 or 7 ENTERS to work for me.

Not sure if we still need to link to an account without Push ability, but at least this will log you on and link to your account.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Have you tried a push? If that doesn't work, there's no reason to link to your account.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Have you actually managed to push anything? If not, then being able to link doesn't really mean much.


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