# LOST - "This Place is Death" - OAD 2/11/09 - Spoilers



## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

Man! What a ride so far. This episode had the most frustrating ending for me ever because naturally, when they get to the good stuff, the word LOST comes up.

Ugh, another week to go.

It was so interesting to see Jacob/Christian show up at the bottom of the Orchid, and EVEN more interesting is that this whole thing may be Locke's fault by allowing Ben to leave the island in the first place.

Also, is the reason why Christian couldn't help Locke up because he's an apparition, a vision, or just wanted to help Locke build character.


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## skinnyjm (Feb 10, 2005)

My nose is bleeding.


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## Dad (Oct 27, 2001)

Great ep! Smoke monster, Russo who actually killed her mates who changed after their visit with smokie and a very tangled web. Bring Sun, don't bring Sun, but John kept his word (it would seem) and did not reveal Jin to Sun. I wonder, did Ben kill John to regain his place of power? A jiggly wheel caused the time shifts, can&#8217;t decide if that was a let down or not but what a big finish!

So much stuff...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Dad said:


> Russo who actually killed her mates who changed after their visit with smokie...


More to the point, Rousseau wasn't the one who was crazy when she killed them. Her story was true. That was a wee bit unexpected!


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Danielle's team left Tahiti November 15th, 1988.. She was on the island for 16 years when 815 crashed. That actually adds up, 1988+16=2004.. So does that show us pretty definitively that the island hasn't been moving through time, just the people? (the island moved, but maybe just in space). Maybe the island was moving around in space randomly because of the broken wheel (good job, Ben), but the weird time effects around the island were affecting people that moved with the island, sending them through time.

It'll be interesting to see next week if everything stopped (flashes + time travel).

Actually, maybe the island was moving in time and in space because of the wheel, and one of those meaningless 2-minute flashes we saw in there somewhere was them moving somewhere in the ocean where the Black Rock was, just like another had the plane crashing w/Locke, etc.

Maybe the reason Faraday goes down in the elevator to the half-dug-out orchid station is because he's looking to see if Locke is down there to help him..

Cool episode.. definitely left me wanting more at the end though.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

My TiVo picked up the Sayid-meets-Danielle episode as a suggestion on the G4 channel, and I rewatched that season 1 episode right after tonight's episode.. I'm glad I didn't watch it first! Sayid and her are pointing guns at each other the same way.. Sayid pulls the trigger, and it clicks. She says the firing pin has been removed, and that Robert hadn't noticed it either when she killed him. Ha!! Too cool! Glad I forgot that detail - it helped the suspense between the two on the beach.

I thought it was cool that Robert wasn't just crazy like "I LIKE EATING PASTE! CLOUDS ARE MAGICAL CEMENT MIRRORS! AAAAAAHHHHHHHALALALALALA", but instead "It's not a monster. It's a security system guarding that temple."


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jkeegan said:


> Actually, maybe the island was moving in time and in space because of the wheel, and one of those meaningless 2-minute flashes we saw in there somewhere was them moving somewhere in the ocean where the Black Rock was, just like another had the plane crashing w/Locke, etc.


My theory is that when the wheel turns, the island moves in space, not time. And that the people are moving through time, not space.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

So unless I'm forgetting something (from tonight or a previous episode), I'm even more confused as to HOW Sun knows to blame Ben for Jin's death-which-didn't-happen.

Locke didn't go to see her. Locke and Ben know that he killed Keamy, but that's it.

Unless I'm forgetting something like where Kevin Johnson/Michael tells her on the freighter that he worked for Ben and that's why the explosives were there (which I certainly don't remember), then I don't see how _she_ knows Ben is even slightly at fault. It was Widmore's men! Their boat! For all she knows, their explosives (actually, were they? I'd thought it was Kevin's bomb but that was 100% fake, wasn't it)

BTW, was that Jin's mother watching Ji Yeon?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

My "faith" in the writers plans is a bit weak in that I do feel the need to ask this question (rhetorically): Did the writers know, last season, when Ben went down to turn the wheel, that they wanted Jacob to someday say "John.. I told YOU to move the island", or did the writers change that to accomodate some mid-season writing details this year?

And when Jack said to Ben "You said Locke never came to see you!", was Ben's "he didn't.. I went to see him" known when they wrote this season's pilot, or did they retcon that in a few weeks later when they needed to write the detail about the ring?


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> My "faith" in the writers plans is a bit weak in that I do feel the need to ask this question (rhetorically): Did the writers know, last season, when Ben went down to turn the wheel, that they wanted Jacob to someday say "John.. I told YOU to move the island", or did the writers change that to accomodate some mid-season writing details this year?
> 
> And when Jack said to Ben "You said Locke never came to see you!", was Ben's "he didn't.. I went to see him" known when they wrote this season's pilot, or did they retcon that in a few weeks later when they needed to write the detail about the ring?


Is that really significant enough to matter? With EVERYTHING that happens on this show-that's what you need to question?!


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> More to the point, Rousseau wasn't the one who was crazy when she killed them. Her story was true. That was a wee bit unexpected!


Was there a detail I missed in those scenes that demonstrated her mates were "sick"? Obviously he was talking about Smokey being a security system, but was there something else?


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## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

I'm still waiting for the explanation on why Rousseau didn't recognize Jin in 2004. I have the first season on DVD - is that when they "first" met? Maybe I should go check it out.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> So unless I'm forgetting something (from tonight or a previous episode), I'm even more confused as to HOW Sun knows to blame Ben for Jin's death-which-didn't-happen.
> 
> Locke didn't go to see her. Locke and Ben know that he killed Keamy, but that's it.
> 
> ...


Not to pick any nits, not with this show , but Sun didn't say that John never saw her. She said "Why didn't he tell me himself?" (meaning that Jin was still alive) Locke still could have talked to her, and told her about the bomb and Ben.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

cmontyburns said:


> Was there a detail I missed in those scenes that demonstrated her mates were "sick"? Obviously he was talking about Smokey being a security system, but was there something else?


You mean, other than Robert pulling his gun up suddenly and firing at Danielle?


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Delta13 said:


> You mean, other than Robert pulling his gun up suddenly and firing at Danielle?


Well OK -- but she was also aiming at him.


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## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

cmontyburns said:


> Was there a detail I missed in those scenes that demonstrated her mates were "sick"? Obviously he was talking about Smokey being a security system, but was there something else?


Maybe not "sick" - but he did lie and then try to shoot her. That would imply perhaps that he was insane. They went out of the way to show us that Rousseau was willing to NOT kill him.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

mostman said:


> Maybe not "sick" - but he did lie and then try to shoot her. That would imply perhaps that he was insane. They went out of the way to show us that Rousseau was willing to NOT kill him.


I'm down with that. I just overprocessed the scene, I think -- the answer was right there in front of me!


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## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

I think the important take-away is that the temple causes the "sickness.". Rousseau is the only one who didn't go in - thanks to Jin. 

Didn't we see someone else get dragged into there once? Was it Locke?


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Plus, he apparently grabbed a rifle from her stash or something - as Jeff noted, she had removed the firing pin already. So the same kind of thing must have happened with the other 2. She just gave Robert a little more leeway because she loved him. But only just a little ...


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

mostman said:


> I think the important take-away is that the temple causes the "sickness.". Rousseau is the only one who didn't go in - thanks to Jin.
> 
> Didn't we see someone else get dragged into there once? Was it Locke?


Locke ALMOST got dragged under in Season 1. But Jack was holding him back and Kate threw a grenade down the hole and Smokey let Locke go.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Charlotte had a sudden memory "insert" just like Desmond did - suddenly remembering Daniel telling her to leave the island and never come back. Daniel may have told everyone you can't change the past, but he seems a bit agnostic himself on the subject.

And great - not only is there a wheel, stuck in the rock, inside a glowing cave with no apparent known entrance, but the damn thing needs maintenance once in a while or IT FALLS OFF.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Delta13 said:


> And great - not only is there a wheel, stuck in the rock, inside a glowing cave with no apparent known entrance, but the damn thing needs maintenance once in a while or IT FALLS OFF.


To be fair, Ben broke it or knocked it off it's axis when he turned it. All it needed was a "jiggle."  Thought that was hilarious.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

tewcewl said:


> It was so interesting to see Jacob/Christian show up at the bottom of the Orchid


Is Christian Jacob? I don't think so. I thought he made it clear he wasn't Jacob when Locke was in the cabin with Christian and Claire.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

Delta13 said:


> Charlotte had a sudden memory "insert" just like Desmond did - suddenly remembering Daniel telling her to leave the island and never come back. Daniel may have told everyone you can't change the past, but he seems a bit agnostic himself on the subject.


Thank you, I say the same thing. We know Faraday ends up in Dharma-era 70's (as seen in the season opener) so it's fair to say that we'll see a scene with him telling "young charlotte" not to come back, etc. It was a NEW memory, which is why she hasn't mentioned it or remembered it. I think its at least possible that Charolotte shares Desmond's "gift"


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

jkeegan said:


> So unless I'm forgetting something (from tonight or a previous episode), I'm even more confused as to HOW Sun knows to blame Ben for Jin's death-which-didn't-happen.
> 
> Locke didn't go to see her. Locke and Ben know that he killed Keamy, but that's it.
> 
> ...


I thought the same thing, but like someone else said, Sun seemed to indicate that Locke did come see her, just like the others, but didn't mention Jin. Also to the point, I like how everyone on the island seems to know who got off. Last week lock says, "We have to get them all back, Jack, Kate, Sayid, Hugo, Sun..." how the hell does he know that they weren't on the boat when it exploded, or that they're the only ones that ended up in the helicopter after it landed on the boat and took off again? It's not a detail I'll get bogged down in, but I still find it funny.

Hopefully the Jeremy Bentham episode willc lear a lot up, IE whether or not Locke really did tell Sun about Ben. THAT'S gonna be a good one.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

So my question now is this... I thought that the reason the island was out of it's mind was because the O6 weren't supposed to leave but they did... That's why Ben is trying to get that ALL to go back, because doing so will "reset" the island and put everything back to normal. But after tonight's episode it seems that BEN turning the wheel (instead of Locke) is what caused the record-skipping time jumps, which Locke (seemingly) corrected by turning the wheel himself. 

So this begs the question, if the purpose of the getting those who left back to the island ISNT to reset/fix it, then what the hell IS their purpose? Of course this is assuming that the time jumps are over now, or at least less pervasive. I'm intrigued now as to why those who left have to go back if it has nothing to do with fixing the island's time crisis. 

On another note, who else is hoping the writers don't make ben some kind of hero?? His 'do you know what i've done to keep you and your friends safe!" speech made me nausous because I HATE the idea that they will reveal Ben's master plan to be something heroic. I really hope his end game is simply to get back to the island and re-claim his power, as opposed to some world-saving, helping others crap. Ben is evil, and needs to stay self-serving and evil forever.


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## lpamelaa (May 3, 2004)

My favorite line, "He's speaking Korean. I'm from Encino."

It's my favorite line because I live in Encino!


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

mrdazzo7 said:


> So my question now is this... I thought that the reason the island was out of it's mind was because the O6 weren't supposed to leave but they did... That's why Ben is trying to get that ALL to go back, because doing so will "reset" the island and put everything back to normal. But after tonight's episode it seems that BEN turning the wheel (instead of Locke) is what caused the record-skipping time jumps, which Locke (seemingly) corrected by turning the wheel himself.
> 
> So this begs the question, if the purpose of the getting those who left back to the island ISNT to reset/fix it, then what the hell IS their purpose? Of course this is assuming that the time jumps are over now, or at least less pervasive. I'm intrigued now as to why those who left have to go back if it has nothing to do with fixing the island's time crisis.
> 
> On another note, who else is hoping the writers don't make ben some kind of hero?? His 'do you know what i've done to keep you and your friends safe!" speech made me nausous because I HATE the idea that they will reveal Ben's master plan to be something heroic. I really hope his end game is simply to get back to the island and re-claim his power, as opposed to some world-saving, helping others crap. Ben is evil, and needs to stay self-serving and evil forever.


Of COURSE Ben is lying to them. But think about this-it was Richard who told Locke that he would have to bring back The Oceanic Six to save the island. I doubt we're done with the time traveling aspect yet. Maybe putting the wheel back on its axis, helped slow down the skipping, but didn't stop it. We know that Daniel still ends up in Dharma-era island.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

My favorite part was the Lost/Arrested Development crossover.

Sun said, "Annyong!"

Greg


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

The whole "they've gotta get back to the island" business seems fake to me. What about all the other characters who would make trips to the "real" world, and the island would've been just fine. (Friendly, Ben, Richard, etc.)


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

I'm loving the pace of the show lately! The "Montand's arm" scene was awesome. Was I the only one reminded of Will Ferrell's 'Mustafa' character from Austin Powers when he called up for help?

I thought Desmond showing up at the exact same time as everyone else at Ms. Hawkings place was a little cheesy.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Delta13 said:


> Not to pick any nits, not with this show , but Sun didn't say that John never saw her. She said "Why didn't he tell me himself?" (meaning that Jin was still alive) Locke still could have talked to her, and told her about the bomb and Ben.


Good point, and fair enough. I immediately took "why didn't he tell me himself?" as a reveal that Locke honored his pledge to Jin not to go to her to convince her to come, but he did even say she may come to see him, so I agree it's possible she could still meet Locke to find out.

In fact I hope that's true because it'd resolve this little problem (not important, but I just realized that technically we didn't know yet how she knew Ben was at fault). But, if Locke did meet her, why didn't he give her the ring?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

spikedavis said:


> Is that really significant enough to matter? With EVERYTHING that happens on this show-that's what you need to question?!


Hey, I'm a true believer in Lost.. I'm just acknowledging little moments of weakness in my "faith" when they happen (key word: little). I've got a lot invested mentally in the idea that the big picture has been planned out (I'm sold on the idea that they do, and have been since the first time I heard it).. I guess the fact that JJ was even slightly associated with this show, and that we all got burned by Alias, takes its toll. But I'm not a believer in JJ in that respect - I'm trusting Damon and Carlton! 

(I'm an athiest.. this and my undying admiration/respect for the insane physically-impossible precussion skills of Neil Peart are some of the closest things I have to blind faith.  But I argue that it's NOT blind faith (hell, it's not faith at all, which is by definition blind), but rather experience and past history.. I've SEEN enough from the writers that I admired and respected that I believe they've got it covered. The Neil worship is kind of just a joke (blasphemy!!)).


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## MrGreg (May 2, 2003)

latrobe7 said:


> I thought Desmond showing up at the exact same time as everyone else at Ms. Hawkings place was a little cheesy.


I hope he doesn't accidentally get sucked into the group getting sent back to the island.

Also, I keep wondering if Adam & Eve from season one will end up being people we already know (through the wonders of time travel).


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> My theory is that when the wheel turns, the island moves in space, not time. And that the people are moving through time, not space.


I've liked that theory too, but explain how the island caught the drug smugglers' plane? That apparently crashed sometime between 2001-2002, and there were questions about how the drug smugglers' plane would end up anywhere near where 815 should have crashed... That sounds like the island moved between 2001 and 2004. But noone was turning the wheel between 2001 and 2004 (unless they pull literally the same trick that Locke just did), because the well is closed up and the Orchid Station wasn't blown up until Ben put metal in it.

If the island were to move in time and space, it could have moved into the path of that plane, picked it up, moved far away to catch 815, moved elsewhere to get the Black Rock, etc. Now the people on that island, they could still be moving in time differently than the island, but staying within the same location.. OR - maybe the people didn't move at all (at all in time, and in-space-wise they go with the island but stay in the same space on the island)... They're there at their camp, the island shifts its entire history forward in time, and they now see the older version of the island.. (they didn't move relative to the island, but they did move physically with the island wherever on earth it went). They're still at the same time - January of 2005 - just that they're seeing the H-bomb incidents with American 1950's military clothes others at that time.

I still haven't decided, but that's what sometimes pushes me towards the island moving in both time and space.

(btw, found this firefox tab where I hadn't yet clicked Submit Reply.. just clicking now, apologies if the above paragraphs are 1/2 thought out or incomplete)


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

MrGreg said:


> I hope he doesn't accidentally get sucked into the group getting sent back to the island.
> 
> Also, I keep wondering if Adam & Eve from season one will end up being people we already know (through the wonders of time travel).


Tonight as soon as people started saying to leave Charlotte behind, I knew Faraday would stay with her (alone), and I expected them to go find a cave to hide in to become Adam and Eve. It could still happen, but he (Adam) wouldn't be lying down at the same time as her, since it looks like she died (well, it's looked like that before and we were wrong), and he still has work to do (for us, not Jacob.. we have to see him go into the orchid elevator, and apparently go back and try (despite its KNOWN futility, which he'll have to forget) to tell Charlotte not to come back.

Agreed, I don't want Desmond leaving Penny at all.


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## Eptiger (Jan 16, 2009)

Very good episode, even if it did have a "oh come on, really?" cliffhanger. 

Is Sun not concerned about leaving her son behind? I guess she was faced with kind of an impossible choice: her husband or her daughter. Though Ben made it sound (I think) like her not going back would kill Jin.

Anyone else still of the opinion that Charlotte is the child of the head Dharma guy? I'd still be willing to believe it. If Miles was his son, how is it that he's alive still but not Charlotte if length of time on the island is directly proportional to the nosebleed stuff?

I'm confused about Charlotte not remembering what Daniel said to her in the past until the point she remembered: how could he have gone back in time and told her that she'd die if he was by her side? When he talked to Desmond, he remembered like immediately after. I was willing to accept that her memory was just screwed up. After all, it happened a long time before in a time that she could barely still remember as it was.

Elton


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

So, I really liked that they had Locke hurt himself such that we'd have a good reason for Locke to naively ask Christian for help getting up, so he could confirm that he couldn't (just an apparition, as tewcewl poined out). When I first saw the scene (didn't go back to rewatch that scene yet), I even got the feeling that Christian's response had a pause in it, which could be filled with one of these (different) thoughts/statements:

1) ".. you haven't figured out yet that I'm a vision? (sigh of disappointment)"
2) 

Well, actually I only have 1 to type/remember now, maybe that's because it's 3:14am.


(woke up on couch with laptop in my lap and Lost paused around 0:03 into a rewatch)


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Oh, by the way, I really wanted more of a reaction from Desmond (and I'm hoping for it next time we see the 06 thread continue). I expected him to be like "YOU!!!!" like 10x what he did when he saw Jack in the hatch, then run past everyone and tackle her to the ground..

Then again, maybe I need to rethink what Desmond knows vs what we've seen. Eh, he at least should've had a huge "YOU!!!" line there, more than the tiny look of recognition they showed us.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

When Ben stopped the car and gave his speech, I actually hoped (and I think I still do) that that was a moment of weakness and not a manipulation plot, where he actually broke down with the truth.. (maybe Michael Emmerson just does too good a job of acting that he believes what the writers tell him his character believes on a given day, and it causes problems when they want to change direction on a minor unplanned point..  ).

Anyway my point is that I'd love to find out that the list of things he actually did to keep them safe stretched all the way back to telling the smoke monster to safely lower the front of the plane to the ground, weaving their lives into each others pre-island so they'd have constants and not all die from nosebleeds (as someone suggested in an earlier thread), etc. Some huge reveal episode that closed up hundreds of loose threads in a very satisfying way. 

I'd love such a mechanism no matter who/what is doing it, actually, but his speech came closest so far to something that'd fit the bill.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

I was only able to watch the first 40 minutes. It seems I lost (no pun intended) my ABC high definition channel. Not sure if it was Charter Cable's fault or my Tivo Series 3. I called Charter and they have no alerts about any issues. All my other HD channels are working fine. I checked my Tivo settings and the channel is shown as checked in the channel list. I am so pissed right now.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Eptiger said:


> I'm confused about Charlotte not remembering what Daniel said to her in the past until the point she remembered: how could he have gone back in time and told her that she'd die if he was by her side? When he talked to Desmond, he remembered like immediately after. I was willing to accept that her memory was just screwed up. After all, it happened a long time before in a time that she could barely still remember as it was.


Exactly--I took Charlotte's remembering as proof, or at least evidence, that Desmond did NOT have a "memory implant," but rather jsut remembered what had always happened at that particular time. Because if it's a matter of "personal timeline" as some theorized in the Desmond Incident, then why would Charlotte remember "before" Daniel told her younger self?


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

Even after ignoring Desmond's perfect timing, the rest of episode's cheese factor remains very high. Ben yanking the van over and talking to Jack like he was a child was the low point for me. I know the entire show is this absurd fantasy, but can't the characters inside of it at least act halfway normal?

We can only hope the "record skips" will stop now. That has been one of the most tedious writing devices ever used in this show.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I'm finding that the surprises, twists, and shocks aren't any of that this year.

Was anyone surprised that Farraday's Mother is Eliose Hawking is the the woman that Desmond previously met with? That was supposed to be a "big shock at the end" but it was a little too telegraphed.


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## chronatog7 (Aug 26, 2004)

What the "temple" the same one "The Others" went? Was it the same one Ben sent Rousseau and Alex to?


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## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

Charlotte's death really caught me off guard. Not just because she was my favorite female character on the show (what's with the killing-off of so many of the hot women? - Shannon, Libby, Anna Lucia, and even Claire is nowhere to be found anymore), but because it pretty much makes her whole character's appearance on the show worthless. I mean, what purpose did her character serve to the show? I thought the 3 freighter folk were going to get their own back-stories this year, and Charlotte's place in the show would be revealed. Instead they killed her off before she even got a back-story.

Assuming she's really dead, of course...


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

lpamelaa said:


> My favorite line, "He's speaking Korean. I'm from Encino."
> 
> It's my favorite line because I live in Encino!


Yeah great line. I don't know what Charlotte was speaking but it wasn't intelligible Korean. Sounded like someone on set told her Japanese accent = Korean accent.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Ment said:


> I don't know what Charlotte was speaking but it wasn't intelligible Korean. Sounded like someone on set told her Japanese accent = Korean accent.


I'm surprised they didn't have a real Korean speaker say the lines and then somehow make it sound like Charlotte and sync it up with her mouth and facial expressions. I have no idea how they would do it but it shouldn't be *that* hard or expensive special effects-wise.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

MrGreg said:


> ........Also, I keep wondering if Adam & Eve from season one will end up being people we already know (through the wonders of time travel).





jkeegan said:


> Tonight as soon as people started saying to leave Charlotte behind, I knew Faraday would stay with her (alone), and I expected them to go find a cave to hide in to become Adam and Eve. ........


I thought the same too. But I also think, assuming the O6 get back, is that it could be Kate and Sawyer. You know....we resolve plot and all in the rest of this season and next, and then a final scene is Sawyer and Kate heading into a cave to die, and then a dissolve to seeing them turn into the skeletons that we have seen before. Sort of gruesome and touching at the same time.



T-Wolves said:


> Charlotte's death really caught me off guard. Not just because she was my favorite female character on the show (what's with the killing-off of so many of the hot women? - Shannon, Libby, Anna Lucia, and even Claire is nowhere to be found anymore), but because it pretty much makes her whole character's appearance on the show worthless. I mean, what purpose did her character serve to the show? I thought the 3 freighter folk were going to get their own back-stories this year, and Charlotte's place in the show would be revealed. Instead they killed her off before she even got a back-story.
> 
> Assuming she's really dead, of course...


She may be "dead" in the time we saw her "die" in, but they could still travel backwards to a time she is still alive. We'll still get her backstory...I'm sure of it.

I also thought that maybe Charlotte is Ben's little girlfriend from Dharma time.


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## nyy7 (Jun 3, 2002)

A friend of mine works on the show and he leaked to me that ALL of us on TiVo Community have to go back to the island!!! It will be announced in the first episode of next season. Sully will head the airline that brings us back, and our tickets will be paid for in the new stimulus package about to be passed! Looking forward to seeing you all!! ( Don't forget the tissues for the nosebleeds!)


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

latrobe7 said:


> I'm loving the pace of the show lately! The "Montand's arm" scene was awesome. Was I the only one reminded of Will Ferrell's 'Mustafa' character from Austin Powers when he called up for help?
> 
> I thought Desmond showing up at the exact same time as everyone else at Ms. Hawkings place was a little cheesy.


Yes, I caught that too. But it suggests a less comedic point: his deadpan "I'm hurt, please help me" was not what you'd expect from someone who'd just had his arm torn off. It suggests to me that he was "possessed" in some way, called for the others to come down, and the same thing happened to them, which led to Robert (and presumably the other dead guys on the beach) trying to kill Rousseau.

So all that hype about how EVERYONE had to go back or it wouldn't work, and Mrs. Hawking just says "ok, close enough."

So if the wheel being off its axis turns out to be the reason for the flashes, why are we being told that the O-6 have to come back? And why would it have mattered if John had turned the wheel, could it still not have gotten thrown off? And is Ben just going to come back to the island, ignoring the "whoever moves the island can never come back" thing?

Yeah, I caught "Annyong" too.


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

gchance said:


> My favorite part was the Lost/Arrested Development crossover.
> 
> Sun said, "Annyong!"
> 
> Greg


My wife and I both laughed and said it at the same time as well....so sad that AD is gone.


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## MasterCephus (Jan 3, 2005)

> Thank you, I say the same thing. We know Faraday ends up in Dharma-era 70's (as seen in the season opener) so it's fair to say that we'll see a scene with him telling "young charlotte" not to come back, etc. It was a NEW memory, which is why she hasn't mentioned it or remembered it. I think its at least possible that Charolotte shares Desmond's "gift"


But here's the thing...if Faraday now goes back in time to when she was a little girl, why tell her that? He knows for a fact it won't help...she's destined to return to the island to die. I think Faraday is smarter than that.

Here's my question:
When the O6 make it back, what time frame will it be in? Because these time skips seem to be happening frequently and now even the Oceanic people (Sawyer) is now getting nose bleeds. It won't be too long before they start to get really sick like Charlotte. So either what Locke did last night stops the time skips, or somehow when the O6 come back, they will be back to the island 3 years ago.


----------



## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

gchance said:


> My favorite part was the Lost/Arrested Development crossover.
> 
> Sun said, "Annyong!"
> 
> Greg


Annyong is like aloha. It means hello and goodbye in Korean. She was just saying goodbye. You only think of it related to AD because they used it as a plot device (I just started rewatching AD last night. What a great show!)



Eptiger said:


> Anyone else still of the opinion that Charlotte is the child of the head Dharma guy? I'd still be willing to believe it. If Miles was his son, how is it that he's alive still but not Charlotte if length of time on the island is directly proportional to the nosebleed stuff?


There is speculation that Charlotte is actually Faraday's daughter. He says he loves her but has not made and continues not to make any romantic overtures towards her. Maybe because he met her mother in the 70's when he was working on the island and she is the result.

It does seem that the amount of time spent on the island impacts how quickly the nosebleeds start.

The island seems to kill people who come back to it after leaving. I think that is why Ben said he could never come back. Not because he couldn't find it but because he would die if he did so. So what will happen to our Losties when they come back?


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> My "faith" in the writers plans is a bit weak in that I do feel the need to ask this question (rhetorically): Did the writers know, last season, when Ben went down to turn the wheel, that they wanted Jacob to someday say "John.. I told YOU to move the island", or did the writers change that to accomodate some mid-season writing details this year?
> 
> And when Jack said to Ben "You said Locke never came to see you!", was Ben's "he didn't.. I went to see him" known when they wrote this season's pilot, or did they retcon that in a few weeks later when they needed to write the detail about the ring?


This doesn't seem to jive with your prior post about Danielle pulling the firing pin on the rifle in the S1 episode. A seemingly "minor" detail that shows up again in S5?

My "faith" in the writers' master plan is strengthening with each episode. It feels to me like it's all coming together.


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## TheDewAddict (Aug 21, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> So all that hype about how EVERYONE had to go back or it wouldn't work, and Mrs. Hawking just says "ok, close enough."


Technically, I believe she said "It's a start," which to me implies that maybe she'll go ahead and send these folks back now, so they don't change their mind, and maybe have Ben or Jack or somebody keep trying to get the rest of them. Or she can at least begin the process of sending them back to the island.


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> I'm finding that the surprises, twists, and shocks aren't any of that this year.
> 
> Was anyone surprised that Farraday's Mother is Eliose Hawking is the the woman that Desmond previously met with? That was supposed to be a "big shock at the end" but it was a little too telegraphed.


No, I wasn't surprised. However, I think it was deliberately telegraphed. We are winding down to the endgame.......there need to be fewer twists, and more "untangles."


----------



## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

MacThor said:


> This doesn't seem to jive with your prior post about Danielle pulling the firing pin on the rifle in the S1 episode. A seemingly "minor" detail that shows up again in S5?
> 
> My "faith" in the writers' master plan is strengthening with each episode. It feels to me like it's all coming together.


I definitely agree! I've been really enjoying this season. It's like the skips through time have been in essence a flashback for the island itself. This has been filling in the gaps of the story so far, and some surprising things and some things not necessarily surprising, but nice to finally see.


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Anyone remember what episode we first saw the rope in the ground?


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

TheDewAddict said:


> Technically, I believe she said "It's a start," which to me implies that maybe she'll go ahead and send these folks back now, so they don't change their mind, and maybe have Ben or Jack or somebody keep trying to get the rest of them. Or she can at least begin the process of sending them back to the island.


I was paraphrasing my interpretation of her facial expression and what she said, which was "Well, let's get started." Her expression to me seemed as if she was thinking "oh well" and since she said "let's get started" I take that to mean they didn't need everyone.


----------



## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

TheDewAddict said:


> Technically, I believe she said "It's a start," which to me implies that maybe she'll go ahead and send these folks back now, so they don't change their mind, and maybe have Ben or Jack or somebody keep trying to get the rest of them. Or she can at least begin the process of sending them back to the island.


Exactly, she says something like "this will do, for now", definitely implying she is going to start the process. I'm curious how Kate and Sayid are going to be convinced to go back. They seemed pretty pissed in last night's episode.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

BitbyBlit said:


> Anyone remember what episode we first saw the rope in the ground?


Episode 9, "Solitary", which was also where we first saw Danielle's music box, which Sayid fixed.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> Was anyone surprised that Farraday's Mother is Eliose Hawking is the the woman that Desmond previously met with? That was supposed to be a "big shock at the end" but it was a little too telegraphed.


I don't think we were supposed to be shocked. Desmond was shocked, but I think if they had wanted the viewers to be shocked, they wouldn't have shown her until this episode.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

brermike said:


> Exactly, she says something like "this will do, for now", definitely implying she is going to start the process. I'm curious how Kate and Sayid are going to be convinced to go back. They seemed pretty pissed in last night's episode.


I guess we'll find out whether she meant the "for now" part. I initially interpreted it as just "this will do" but I guess it's possible that she could get started with the ones that are there but will need them all eventually.

I wonder if she'll mind that Desmond is also there, since he wasn't one of the ones they initially needed. Which is another thing that makes no sense... why were only people from the crash causing the flashes by not being there, if that's even the case given the donkey wheel off its axis thing.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

MacThor said:


> This doesn't seem to jive with your prior post about Danielle pulling the firing pin on the rifle in the S1 episode. A seemingly "minor" detail that shows up again in S5?
> 
> My "faith" in the writers' master plan is strengthening with each episode. It feels to me like it's all coming together.


No no no, don't think I'm complaining or not 100% satisfied and in love with Lost. I very much believe they know the big story arc and tons of details.. They've said though that obviously they don't know every detail about every little thing that ever will happen - small story details come along when needed.

I was just wondering about those two, (relatively) minor details. Just a little!


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

jeff125va said:


> Episode 9, "Solitary", which was also where we first saw Danielle's music box, which Sayid fixed.


Thanks. This is definitely going to be a show to watch once the series is over to pick up all the little details that were confusing or seemed meaningless the first time.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

brermike said:


> Exactly, she says something like "this will do, for now", definitely implying she is going to start the process.


Yeah, I think they needed everyone in order to complete whatever process they were trying to do, so there was no point in even starting unless they were reasonably sure they could get everyone on board. Ideally, everyone would have been there before they started, but those that did show up were a good enough indicator that the rest had a good chance of eventually joining them, so Eloise decided that they could begin.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

BitbyBlit said:


> Yeah, I think they needed everyone in order to complete whatever process they were trying to do, so there was no point in even starting unless they were reasonably sure they could get everyone on board. Ideally, everyone would have been there before they started, but those that did show up were a good enough indicator that the rest had a good chance of eventually joining them, so Eloise decided that they could begin.


But they _weren't_ sure at all that they'd get everyone on board. In fact, it seems highly unlikely at this point, especially given Ben's sense or urgency. I really think that it's up in the air as to whether they're even going to bother trying to go back and get the rest. I mean, we really have no idea what sort of process Mrs. Hawking will be performng, so it's hard to even speculate at this point what getting started now and finishing later would even entail.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

Let's just do an all-singing, all-dancing multiple quote post reply here.



jkeegan said:


> My "faith" in the writers plans is a bit weak in that I do feel the need to ask this question (rhetorically): Did the writers know, last season, when Ben went down to turn the wheel, that they wanted Jacob to someday say "John.. I told YOU to move the island", or did the writers change that to accomodate some mid-season writing details this year?
> 
> And when Jack said to Ben "You said Locke never came to see you!", was Ben's "he didn't.. I went to see him" known when they wrote this season's pilot, or did they retcon that in a few weeks later when they needed to write the detail about the ring?


Both points you bring up actually don't bother me because they're rooted in the truth that the show has laid down in the past. Christian DID tell Locke to move the island. He made the mistake of letting Ben do it. Why is this a mistake, I don't know. Christian may not have wanted Ben to get off the island in the first place due to Ben's feud with Widmore. He may have known that Ben would try to come back and do something [evil/good] with the island.

And Ben's statement to Jack had my wife and I laughing hard because Ben's a master manipulator, always deftly weaving between statements that skirt between truth and non-truth. This line is a classic Linus-ism and not a retcon at all. It fits with his character; he WOULD say something like this. I think next week's episode, I've read from either TV Guide or EW, is an important episode and a mind-blowing one -- and that was a statement I read in January before LOST even started airing.



mrdazzo7 said:


> So my question now is this... I thought that the reason the island was out of it's mind was because the O6 weren't supposed to leave but they did... That's why Ben is trying to get that ALL to go back, because doing so will "reset" the island and put everything back to normal. But after tonight's episode it seems that BEN turning the wheel (instead of Locke) is what caused the record-skipping time jumps, which Locke (seemingly) corrected by turning the wheel himself.
> 
> So this begs the question, if the purpose of the getting those who left back to the island ISNT to reset/fix it, then what the hell IS their purpose? Of course this is assuming that the time jumps are over now, or at least less pervasive. I'm intrigued now as to why those who left have to go back if it has nothing to do with fixing the island's time crisis.
> 
> On another note, who else is hoping the writers don't make ben some kind of hero?? His 'do you know what i've done to keep you and your friends safe!" speech made me nausous because I HATE the idea that they will reveal Ben's master plan to be something heroic. I really hope his end game is simply to get back to the island and re-claim his power, as opposed to some world-saving, helping others crap. Ben is evil, and needs to stay self-serving and evil forever.


You bring up a good point. What IS the O6's purpose? We still don't know what the ramifications of Locke fixing the wheel are (assuming he fixed it). And I think it would be stunning to find out that Ben's a hero. The amazing thing about the character is that you can never read him well. This is a character that most actors want to play, but most never get the chance to or when they do, they don't pull it off well. I still think Widmore is the main villain here, just based on how much of a jerk he was when Locke met him in 1954.



DUDE_NJX said:


> The whole "they've gotta get back to the island" business seems fake to me. What about all the other characters who would make trips to the "real" world, and the island would've been just fine. (Friendly, Ben, Richard, etc.)


I think we'll find out what the rules are soon. We don't fully know what the game is.



jeff125va said:


> Yes, I caught that too. But it suggests a less comedic point: his deadpan "I'm hurt, please help me" was not what you'd expect from someone who'd just had his arm torn off. It suggests to me that he was "possessed" in some way, called for the others to come down, and the same thing happened to them, which led to Robert (and presumably the other dead guys on the beach) trying to kill Rousseau.


:up: The question is WHAT kind of sickness is Danielle talking about? It's not the time-traveling sickness. It's not like anything we've seen before. And interestingly enough, how did Robert know what Smokey was and what's so important in the temple that it's guarding? Additionally, why would it traverse so far out when it could just stay around the temple and protect it? Jin's stumbling across Montand's arm gave us evidence that it was just a week later after Smokey's attack or sometime around that frame for the whole camp to descend to madness.

Also, I'd wager we'll be around to see the birth of Alex because, well, it's hard to give birth by yourself.



MasterCephus said:


> But here's the thing...if Faraday now goes back in time to when she was a little girl, why tell her that? He knows for a fact it won't help...she's destined to return to the island to die. I think Faraday is smarter than that.
> 
> Here's my question:
> When the O6 make it back, what time frame will it be in? Because these time skips seem to be happening frequently and now even the Oceanic people (Sawyer) is now getting nose bleeds. It won't be too long before they start to get really sick like Charlotte. So either what Locke did last night stops the time skips, or somehow when the O6 come back, they will be back to the island 3 years ago.


Love will make you do crazy, illogical things. Faraday may either 1) warn Charlotte in order to try to change the future futilely or 2) warn Charlotte FULLY KNOWING WHAT HAPPENS in the future so he can give his past self in the future (confused yet?) a major clue that he, Faraday, was around when Charlotte was younger and has something to do. My money is on #2, because like you said, Faraday's not dumb.

I think when the O6 make it back to the island, it will have been three years (in real time) since they left and by then everyone will be dead or gone mad. I say this only because we haven't seen evidence of time travel OUTSIDE of the island. They may have to trip the wheel again in order to go back in time and fix things.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

cmontyburns said:


> Was there a detail I missed in those scenes that demonstrated her mates were "sick"? Obviously he was talking about Smokey being a security system, but was there something else?


We also missed some undetermined period of time. Jin flashed forward. We don't know what happened in between.



gchance said:


> My favorite part was the Lost/Arrested Development crossover.
> 
> Sun said, "Annyong!"


That made me laugh too.



MrGreg said:


> I hope he doesn't accidentally get sucked into the group getting sent back to the island.
> 
> Also, I keep wondering if Adam & Eve from season one will end up being people we already know (through the wonders of time travel).


That seems pretty likely.



Turtleboy said:


> I'm finding that the surprises, twists, and shocks aren't any of that this year.
> 
> Was anyone surprised that Farraday's Mother is Eliose Hawking is the the woman that Desmond previously met with? That was supposed to be a "big shock at the end" but it was a little too telegraphed.


Big shocks and twists aren't necessary. Yeah, they're cool and all, but so is the development of the story. I enjoy watching things come together as much as the shock of a new twist.



Paperboy2003 said:


> My wife and I both laughed and said it at the same time as well....so sad that AD is gone.


Hopefully the movie will be good.



BitbyBlit said:


> Anyone remember what episode we first saw the rope in the ground?


We've see the rope before? I don't recall.



jeff125va said:


> Episode 9, "Solitary", which was also where we first saw Danielle's music box, which Sayid fixed.


That's when we saw the cable that ran to the underwater station. Did we also see the rope from the well in the ground before?


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Did Ben know Eloise was Faraday's mother or not? What was with that change of expression and sideways glance and music cue?


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

I feel the same way about this ep as I have about the others this season. There's just no good drama there. My interest is held by the history lesson. By the puzzle being put together. I'm very much interested and invested in that. But, were are the great Lost moments of tension, of mood and mystery, of character? Where's the drama?

Sawyer discovering Jin. Desmond seeing Eloise again. The monster attack. Rousseau killing her crew. Sun vs Ben. All were quick and flat. Slow down! Enjoy the moments! It's like they're rushing to deliver all the plot points they've been withholding all these years, but forgetting to deliver the most important thing. The drama!


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Did Ben know Eloise was Faraday's mother or not? What was with that change of expression and sideways glance and music cue?


His expression seemed to indicate that he was just putting two and two together.


----------



## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

jkeegan said:


> In fact I hope that's true because it'd resolve this little problem (not important, but I just realized that technically we didn't know yet how she knew Ben was at fault). But, if Locke did meet her, why didn't he give her the ring?


Because Locke is playing Ben's type of mind games. He promised Jun that *he* wouldn't convince Sun to come back. Jin gave Locke the ring to prove to Sun that Jin was dead. IIRC, however, Locke never actually promised to give the ring to Sun. So, he instead gave it to Ben, who could do whatever he chose with it (he chose to use it as proof that Jin was alive).



jkeegan said:


> Anyway my point is that I'd love to find out that the list of things he actually did to keep them safe stretched all the way back to telling the smoke monster to safely lower the front of the plane to the ground, *weaving their lives into each others pre-island so they'd have constants and not all die from nosebleeds (as someone suggested in an earlier thread), *etc. Some huge reveal episode that closed up hundreds of loose threads in a very satisfying way.


Yay! It's very rare that I post something that gets remembered several threads later. Thanks.  Although I must admit that I'm starting to doubt my own prediction at this point (I think we would have seen this happening by now).



Turtleboy said:


> I'm finding that the surprises, twists, and shocks aren't any of that this year.
> 
> Was anyone surprised that Farraday's Mother is Eliose Hawking is the the woman that Desmond previously met with? That was supposed to be a "big shock at the end" but it was a little too telegraphed.


I have two friends/relatives who realized right away (during ep 5.2) that Mrs. Hawking was the woman that Desmond had previously met in the shop, but had never put together that she was also Daniel's mom or, for that matter, that the Ellie we saw with the rifle on the island is the younger version of her (not proven definitively yet, but does anyone here really doubt it?) I normally hate when other posters say this, but I can no longer ignore the fact that the majority of viewers simply don't watch as closely as we do.



tewcewl said:


> And Ben's statement to Jack had my wife and I laughing hard because Ben's a master manipulator, always deftly weaving between statements that skirt between truth and non-truth. This line is a classic Linus-ism and not a retcon at all. It fits with his character; he WOULD say something like this.


Agreed. I said it at the start of S3, but it bears repeating: Ben Linus = been lyin, us. Take whatever he says with a planefull of salt.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I think in addition to Ben being a manipulative lying sociopath, we should also consider the likelihood that he A) doesn't know as much about what's going on as he'd like us to think, and B) has his own perspective from which his actions look better than they do to us ("We're the good guys").


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Almost all of these topics have been touched on in this thread, but here are a few of my opinions and observations about what's going on:

Christian's telling Locke: "I told *YOU* to move the island, not Ben." Was planned from the get-go (at least from the episode where Locke was originally told this). It seems Christian knew Ben would screw it up, and Locke wouldn't.

Turning the wheel *CORRECTLY* moves the island through *SPACE*. Somehow, knocking it off-axis was causing the *people who were present on the island at the point when the wheel was knocked off its axis* to jump around in *time*. We see our "losties" jumping around in time, no-one else on the island ("others", Rousseau and her people, etc.) is jumping with them. (Being "close enough" to the island, as Faraday put it, "within the sphere of influence" or something like that, counts. E. g. Jin was floating just offshore when the wheel was knocked off axis.)

I believe that they will stop jumping now that Locke has put the wheel back on axis.

Christian couldn't help Locke because he's an apparition.

I'm unsure if Locke visited Sun before he died. If he did, he didn't totally break his promise to Jin, but he didn't fully keep it either. I think he left it ambiguous whether Jin was alive. Jin specifically asked him to tell her he was dead. If he had done that, he'd have given her the ring. Clearly, he didn't.

Both Locke and Ben have inklings of what to do, but are also doing a lot of guessing. Ben's assertion previously that he "always has a plan" is disingenuous. He makes it up as he goes along (as does Locke), he's just gotten very good about thinking on his feet.

Being sucked down the hole by the smoke monster is what makes a person "sick". Rousseau didn't get sick because she didn't go down the hole. (Thank you, Jin.)

Awesome season so far, BTW! :up:


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> Being sucked down the hole by the smoke monster is what makes a person "sick". Rousseau didn't get sick because she didn't go down the hole. (Thank you, Jin.)


Interestlingly, she associated going down into the hole with the smoke monster as causing them to get sick in this episode yet she never mentioned it when initially talking about them being sick when we first met her in the "present".


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

For reference, Danielle's account from Season 1, "Solitary."



> SAYID: [working on the music box] And how did you come to be on this island, Danielle?
> 
> [Danielle sighs and looks like she doesn't want to talk about it, but she will as if for the price of the music box.]
> 
> ...





> [They hear sounds outside and Danielle picks up a rifle and heads to the hatch.]
> 
> SAYID: Where are you going?
> 
> ...





> [Shot of Sayid in jungle. He levels his rifle at Danielle.]
> 
> SAYID: Put the gun down, Rousseau. Put it down on the ground.
> 
> ...





> SAYID: Please, I don't wish to hurt you.
> 
> DANIELLE: You already have.
> 
> ...


Re-reading that, another thing I notice is Nadia's quote, "You'll find me in the next life..." Similar to Desmond's favorite expression, "See you in another life, brother."


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Don't forget the anagram of the law firm, and it was also on the van last night as Carept Cleaners, is Reincarnation.

Maybe with each flash they are dying but being reincarnated in an earlier time..........


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mrdazzo7 said:


> On another note, who else is hoping the writers don't make ben some kind of hero?? His 'do you know what i've done to keep you and your friends safe!" speech made me nausous because I HATE the idea that they will reveal Ben's master plan to be something heroic. I really hope his end game is simply to get back to the island and re-claim his power, as opposed to some world-saving, helping others crap. Ben is evil, and needs to stay self-serving and evil forever.


I like Ben. Sure, he's a bad guy, but I don't hate him. He's extremely interesting and intriguing and if it turns out that he was not actually being a bad guy all along, I'll be totally fine with that.


Turtleboy said:


> I'm finding that the surprises, twists, and shocks aren't any of that this year.
> 
> Was anyone surprised that Farraday's Mother is Eliose Hawking is the the woman that Desmond previously met with? That was supposed to be a "big shock at the end" but it was a little too telegraphed.


I think those watching closely (us) knew that "twist" from the first episode this season. Those watching casually (most of the viewers), probably don't get stuff like that until they're hit over the head with it.


cheesesteak said:


> I'm surprised they didn't have a real Korean speaker say the lines and then somehow make it sound like Charlotte and sync it up with her mouth and facial expressions. I have no idea how they would do it but it shouldn't be *that* hard or expensive special effects-wise.


Because regardless of how "not hard or expensive" it would be, it's always easier to simply teach the actor to say the lines in a semi-believable fashion.


MasterCephus said:


> But here's the thing...if Faraday now goes back in time to when she was a little girl, why tell her that? He knows for a fact it won't help...she's destined to return to the island to die. I think Faraday is smarter than that.


He'll go back and tell her that because he has to. He knows he's already don it, so he doesn't have a choice. He can't change the past.


BitbyBlit said:


> Anyone remember what episode we first saw the rope in the ground?


As hefe asked, I'd like more information about this too. I don't remember that at all.


Fool Me Twice said:


> Did Ben know Eloise was Faraday's mother or not? What was with that change of expression and sideways glance and music cue?


I think the fact that Ben immediately turned around and went in the church was an indication that he's just realizing what's going on, and that Faraday being on the island is probably working against what he's trying to do, and therefore, the urgency has just been increased.

I thought Montand's arm being there when Jin flashed forward was a little lame. Even if it were only a week or two (or two months, as indicated by the dialog above), are we really supposed to believe that there are no wild animals on the island that would come and make a meal out of that?

Someone else already mentioned it, but I'm pretty sure that we're going to see that Charlotte was Ben's girlfriend when he was little.


----------



## woolybugger (Nov 12, 2004)

Did anyone go to the Ajira website? I'm trying to figure out what the origami means/does. Maybe I folded it wrong.

ETA: http://www.ajiraairways.com


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

woolybugger said:


> Did anyone go to the Ajira website? I'm trying to figure out what the origami means/does. Maybe I folded it wrong.
> 
> ETA: http://www.ajiraairways.com


There were lots of hints about it in last week's thread.


----------



## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Charlotte: " I love Geronimo Jackson."


----------



## woolybugger (Nov 12, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> There were lots of hints about it in last week's thread.


D'oh, didn't think of looking in that thread!


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

T-Wolves said:


> Charlotte's death really caught me off guard. Not just because she was my favorite female character on the show (what's with the killing-off of so many of the hot women?...


I wouldn't consider Charlotte hot....not even attactive...


----------



## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> I'm unsure if Locke visited Sun before he died. If he did, he didn't totally break his promise to Jin, but he didn't fully keep it either. I think he left it ambiguous whether Jin was alive. Jin specifically asked him to tell her he was dead. If he had done that, he'd have given her the ring. Clearly, he didn't.
> 
> Awesome season so far, BTW! :up:


Was the promise only about not bringing Sun and the baby back? Or was the discussion of the ring after the promise also in the terms of the promise.



T-Wolves said:


> Charlotte's death really caught me off guard...
> 
> Assuming she's really dead, of course...


Unless I missed something, she hasn't died, yet. I guess we have to assume that she is going to die since Minkowski died from the same thing. Are the rat, bunny and Minkowski the only deaths from time traveling that we know of?

And doesn't she just need a constant? Is it too late for her to have a constant?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> I wouldn't consider Charlotte hot....not even attactive...


I would. Absolutely.


teknikel said:


> Was the promise only about not bringing Sun and the baby back? Or was the discussion of the ring after the promise also in the terms of the promise.


I'm not at home, so I can't rewatch that scene, but I'm pretty sure Locke kind of reworded his promise to make it a little more vague. First, Jin said something like, "Promise you'll tell Sun I'm dead. Promise you won't bring her back to the Island." And Locke said something like, "I promise. I promise I won't go to her, but I can't guarantee that she won't come to me." I think that extra little clause by Locke gave him a lot of wiggle room on his promise.


----------



## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> I thought Montand's arm being there when Jin flashed forward was a little lame. Even if it were only a week or two (or two months, as indicated by the dialog above), are we really supposed to believe that there are no wild animals on the island that would come and make a meal out of that?


The animals might have learned the hard way to stay away from the smoke monster's home base.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

hefe said:


> We've see the rope before? I don't recall.
> 
> That's when we saw the cable that ran to the underwater station. Did we also see the rope from the well in the ground before?


I was thinking of the cable when I read the question about the rope. I was thinking of Danielle's part of the island and the cable that Sayid followed. I do not recall ever seeing the rope going to the well before. I can't imagine how we'd know it was the same rope unless it were attached to the well, in which case I would expect the question to be about the well.


----------



## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

jeff125va said:


> I was thinking of the cable when I read the question about the rope. I was thinking of Danielle's part of the island and the cable that Sayid followed. I do not recall ever seeing the rope going to the well before. I can't imagine how we'd know it was the same rope unless it were attached to the well, in which case I would expect the question to be about the well.


YEah, we have not seen the rope before-that was in the past before the well was constructed. Prior to this season the castaways have been in 2004.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

teknikel said:


> ......And doesn't she just need a constant? Is it too late for her to have a constant?


I would think Daniel would be her constant.


----------



## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

jlb said:


> I would think Daniel would be her constant.


That's what I thought too. But I thought if you had a constant, then you would be able to go through time without the side effect of death.


----------



## MasterCephus (Jan 3, 2005)

> He'll go back and tell her that because he has to. He knows he's already don it, so he doesn't have a choice. He can't change the past.


But's not his past...it's his future, which he has every ability to change. But it's in Charlotte's past...which brings us to the crux of using time travel...you are bound to create situations where your rules you create don't work out.


----------



## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

Locke told Christian that Ben turned the wheel, and Christian said that he was supposed to do it. Locke said something like "Ben told me to do it" and then Christian said something like "Since when has Ben said anything that was remotely beneficial to you".


What is the relationship between Christian and Ben? Not on the same team, I guess..


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> I wouldn't consider Charlotte hot....not even attactive...


I vote: Hot!


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

teknikel said:


> That's what I thought too. But I thought if you had a constant, then you would be able to go through time without the side effect of death.


But you have to know that you need a constant and be able to lean on that constant. Charlotte didn't.


----------



## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> I wouldn't consider Charlotte hot....not even attactive...


Dibs, then. 

I think she's spectacularly hot. Even the accent works for me. :up:


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

goMO said:


> Locke told Christian that Ben turned the wheel, and Christian said that he was supposed to do it. Locke said something like "Ben told me to do it" and then Christian said something like "Since when has Ben said anything that was remotely beneficial to you".
> 
> What is the relationship between Christian and Ben? Not on the same team, I guess..


Well they both have a connection to Jacob, and those connections make it seem that they are on the same team. Maybe that has to be questioned now?


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

jlb said:


> I vote: Hot!


She definitely looks better without the nosebleed.


----------



## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

MasterCephus said:


> But's not his past...it's his future, which he has every ability to change. But it's in Charlotte's past...which brings us to the crux of using time travel...you are bound to create situations where your rules you create don't work out.


My guess is that when we eventually see the scene played out, Daniel will approach young Charlotte and say something like "I know this is probably pointless to tell you, but you've got to believe me ..." And it won't matter because what's happend will always happen.


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

The whole constant thing was about your consciousness traveling back and forth in time. They never related it to this phenomena.


----------



## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

spikedavis said:


> YEah, we have not seen the rope before-that was in the past before the well was constructed. Prior to this season the castaways have been in 2004.


I thought they had flashed to pre-well-construction, too. I suppose it could have been after the well had been torn out and filled in, but I think that would have made additional trouble for Locke (a void under the well pre-construction makes sense, but would be filled in along with the well afterwards, right?)


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Dennis Wilkinson said:


> I thought they had flashed to pre-well-construction, too. I suppose it could have been after the well had been torn out and filled in, but I think that would have made additional trouble for Locke (a void under the well pre-construction makes sense, but would be filled in along with the well afterwards, right?)


I don't think there's any question that when they flashed while Locke was climbing down the well, they went back to a time before the well was constructed. The only reason the rope didn't disappear was because Sawyer was holding onto it (just like the boat didn't disappear last episode when they were rowing it).


----------



## lpamelaa (May 3, 2004)

Robert described the smoke monster as a security system guarding the temple. That's not the first time Smokey was described as a security system. I can't remember who else said it? Ben? An other? Perhaps whoever else used that description is "sick."


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

lpamelaa said:


> Robert described the smoke monster as a security system guarding the temple. That's not the first time Smokey was described as a security system. I can't remember who else said it? Ben? An other? Perhaps whoever else used that description is "sick."


It was Rousseau. At least she's the first we heard describe it that way.

She described it as a "security system". She was talking to Locke, IIRC.

We've also heard Ben, and I think, Juliet call it a "security system".


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Episode: Exodus Part 1


> DANIELLE: We're safe now.
> 
> KATE: What was that thing?
> 
> ...


----------



## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

BitbyBlit said:


> Thanks. This is definitely going to be a show to watch once the series is over to pick up all the little details that were confusing or seemed meaningless the first time.


The first complete box set in Blu Ray should be a big hit. This is definitely a show that could be watch a second time straight through with just as much enjoyment because of the inside knowledge we now know.


----------



## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

Johnny Dancing said:


> The first complete box set in Blu Ray should be a big hit. This is definitely a show that could be watch a second time straight through with just as much enjoyment because of the inside knowledge we now know.


I am looking forward to getting the whole thing and walking on the treadmill each day and watching an episode. It will be fun to watch everything back to back to back. I think things will make a lot more sense then because there will be less time to forget things.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> Hey, I'm a true believer in Lost.. I'm just acknowledging little moments of weakness in my "faith"...
> <snip>
> (I'm an athiest.. this and my undying admiration/respect for the insane physically-impossible precussion skills of Neil Peart are some of the closest things I have to blind faith.  But I argue that it's NOT blind faith (hell, it's not faith at all, which is by definition blind), but rather experience and past history.. I've SEEN enough from the writers that I admired and respected that I believe they've got it covered. The Neil worship is kind of just a joke (blasphemy!!)).


So what you are saying is that you are a man of science and not necessarily a man of faith.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

BeanMeScot said:


> I am looking forward to getting the whole thing and walking on the treadmill each day and watching an episode. It will be fun to watch everything back to back to back. I think things will make a lot more sense then because there will be less time to forget things.


Ok, so we organize ourselves, and we all watch one episode a day, the same episode. Then we come back here and start new threads for each ep every day.


----------



## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

So I think I know why Richard isn't aging. Richard is 'sick'. He may be the original sick guy. The smoke monster grabbed him after he crashed on the island in the black rock and he hasn't aged a day since.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

hefe said:


> Episode: Exodus Part 1


Thanks. I knew I'd distinctly remembered the 2004 Danielle calling it that.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

BeanMeScot said:


> Annyong is like aloha. It means hello and goodbye in Korean. She was just saying goodbye. You only think of it related to AD because they used it as a plot device (I just started rewatching AD last night. What a great show!)


Of course I knew what it meant, I was making a joke. When she said it, I said, "Annyong!" at the TV, unfortunately it's a pavlovian response at this point. It was only a matter of time that a Korean character on a TV show for 4 years might say it. 



MacThor said:


> My "faith" in the writers' master plan is strengthening with each episode. It feels to me like it's all coming together.


I'm totally with you there. Every one of these episodes has made me think how much they've got it together and streamlined the story. That's really what the frozen donkey wheel did, it pushed the plot into high gear.



> Being sucked down the hole by the smoke monster is what makes a person "sick". Rousseau didn't get sick because she didn't go down the hole. (Thank you, Jin.)
> 
> Awesome season so far, BTW! :up:


Go listen to this week's Lost podcast. What you're saying about the hole is correct.



jlb said:


> I vote: Hot!


I vote hot, but definitely not in that photo!



Fish Man said:


> It was Rousseau. At least she's the first we heard describe it that way.
> 
> She described it as a "security system". She was talking to Locke, IIRC.
> 
> We've also heard Ben, and I think, Juliet call it a "security system".


I could have sworn Juliet called it a security system when she turned on the high-frequency thing to keep smokey away from them.



astrohip said:


> Ok, so we organize ourselves, and we all watch one episode a day, the same episode. Then we come back here and start new threads for each ep every day.


I just finished doing that with B5. That's really hard to do. 

Greg


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Did Ben know Eloise was Faraday's mother or not? What was with that change of expression and sideways glance and music cue?





jeff125va said:


> His expression seemed to indicate that he was just putting two and two together.


Wow, I'm sitting here reading through this thread and I get a nosebleed. I'm not joking. I've got a tissue stuffed up my nose as I type. I'm a little freaked out by this.

Archie really told off the Meathead last night, didn't he? And boyhowdy is that Sally Struthers hot!

OK, I'm back. With a headache.

I got the impression that Ben didn't know that Eloise is Faraday's mother, but I need to watch it again. Maybe he was just surprised to see Desmond - and does Ben even know Desmond? I can't remember. Nosebleed and all.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

gchance said:


> I could have sworn Juliet called it a security system when she turned on the high-frequency thing to keep smokey away from them.


Ben called the barrier a "security fence." I don't recall what Juliet might have said.

Edit: No, she didn't:



Left Behind said:


> [Juliet grabs a key from her pocket and undoes the cuffs. Kate falls to the ground stunned. Juliet runs to the other side of the fence and accesses a control panel, revealing a lever switch]
> 
> JULIET: You're gonna wanna be over here.
> 
> ...


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Can someone remind me of the significance of the Adam and Eve corpses? Who called them that, and where were they found? Why are they more than just a couple more dead bodies? 

Ben and Juliet both have serious trouble telling the truth. We know Ben knows something about Smokie--he "called" it to kill Keamy's men last season. Juliet may be in the dark, or not. 

Richard seems to be a totally "good" character, doesn't he? Has he ever lied to anyone? Of course, he can kill you if he needs to.....or have you killed. So if he's been influenced by Smokie, it must have effected him differently. I assumed that the smoke monster killed Robert and friends and then took their image to try to get Danielle. Just like it took Echo's brother's image for whatever reason.


----------



## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

Hawking and Faraday are physicists. How cute is that?

At the end of last season, there were hundreds of posts, or so it seemed, with people arguing over the possibility of the donkey wheel NOT being on the island because of the ice. Many were absolutely convince that it was in the arctic, and Ben had gone through some teleportation off the island just to get to the wheel. Do those people still think the donkey wheel is not on the island, or has this episode convinced them that it IS on the island. I never thought that the chamber being frozen was sufficient evidence to assume it wasn't a part of the island.

When Ben moved it, the wheel was frozen and extremely difficult to turn, he even needed a lever, if I remember correctly, to make it move. When Locke was there, it was moving (bouncing) back and forth all by itself. Very different conditions.

Just because Ben told Locke that whoever turned the wheel could never come back to the island hardly makes that true. Ben lies all the time. Ben knew that Locke wanted to stay on the island because of his spinal injury, so his statement to Locke could have been a lie to stop him from turning the wheel. When Ben was actually manipulating the thing, he asked Jacob if he was laughing. This sounds like a plan on Ben's part to get off the island to exact revenge for the murder of Alex, then come back. With the sub gone, and the boats gone, the wheel was the only way off the island, at least the only quick way.

Eloise told Ben that if the O6 didn't get back to the island, then God help them all. Ben was trying to get them all to be prepared to go, and was being unsuccessful. When Jack told Sun that if she didn't kill Ben, that he would, that really pushed Ben over the edge. I'm sure Ben didn't know the true consequences of his actions. He is under a lot of pressure to deliver the O6 back to the island, Jacob/Christian confirmed that their return was necessary. I fully understood his reaction. He is desperately trying to avert what he THINKS is a real disaster coming should he fail.


----------



## rondotcom (Feb 13, 2005)

MrGreg said:


> I hope he doesn't accidentally get sucked into the group getting sent back to the island.
> 
> Also, I keep wondering if Adam & Eve from season one will end up being people we already know (through the wonders of time travel).


Desmond and Penny


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> Can someone remind me of the significance of the Adam and Eve corpses? Who called them that, and where were they found? Why are they more than just a couple more dead bodies?


As I recall, Jack and Locke both came across them in S1. I think Locke is the one who called them Adam and Eve. I believe Jack (or maybe Locke) found a bag next to them that contained one small black rock and a small white rock. The bodies were basically skeletons so they had been there while - I believe Locke speculated that it was 50 years or so (but I could be wrong about that - haven't seen it since S1). Nothing more has been made of them that I can remember, but it is fun to speculate as to who they may be (Jack & Kate, Sawyer & Kate, Des & Penny, Ben & Walt, etc.)



Church AV Guy said:


> When Ben moved it, the wheel was frozen and extremely difficult to turn, he even needed a lever, if I remember correctly, to make it move. When Locke was there, it was moving (bouncing) back and forth all by itself. Very different conditions.
> 
> Just because Ben told Locke that whoever turned the wheel could never come back to the island hardly makes that true. Ben lies all the time. Ben knew that Locke wanted to stay on the island because of his spinal injury, so his statement to Locke could have been a lie to stop him from turning the wheel. When Ben was actually manipulating the thing, he asked Jacob if he was laughing. This sounds like a plan on Ben's part to get off the island to exact revenge for the murder of Alex, then come back. With the sub gone, and the boats gone, the wheel was the only way off the island, at least the only quick way.


Re the wheel, it's like when you shut your car off and take the key out, the steering wheel moves around a little unless you lock it into place. Ben forgot to do that with the frozen donkey wheel.

I think you are right about Ben manipulating Locke to get off the island. Saying "if you turn it, you have to leave and can't come back" would be the one thing that would make Locke not want to turn it and would get Ben off the island to do all of the things Ben does. That's just Ben being Ben.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

jlb said:


> I vote: Hot!


Unfortunately, that's NOT how she's portrayed in Lost.


----------



## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

I may be way behind in this thought but are we supposed to know that the smoke monster is what caused all the ruckus in the woods during the beginning of the first season?


----------



## mbhuff (Jan 25, 2004)

I really enjoyed this episode and something occurred to me during it. If you are a fan of sci-fi, you might remember Clarke's third law :


> Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic


.

If someone from the far future got stuck on the island in the distant past, perhaps we are seeing what is remaining of their technology (smoke monster, donkey wheel, apparitions). Perhaps they used their technology to convince the locals they were gods, and hence the temples. Maybe Richard is one of them.


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

goblue97 said:


> I may be way behind in this thought but are we supposed to know that the smoke monster is what caused all the ruckus in the woods during the beginning of the first season?


Yes. Early on, it seemed like there might be a more traditional, violent, mean "monster" in addition to smokey. Then it became clear that smokey is capable of administering a beat-down.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

BitbyBlit said:


> Anyone remember what episode we first saw the rope in the ground?


So it wasn't the same rope as from the well? (I laughed at 'you can let go of it now'.)

Also, the fact that they thought that John had transported into earth made me think of Wizardry (and probably a zillion other games) where if you use the transport spell with wrong coordinates, it says something like "You transported into solid rock."


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

MacThor said:


> She definitely looks better without the nosebleed.


better without the nosebleed, but other than that, I think she looks WAY better on Lost than in that picture.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

BeanMeScot said:


> I am looking forward to getting the whole thing and walking on the treadmill each day and watching an episode.


Wow, this show is one that's WAY too complicated for me to watch on the treadmill... (and/or maybe you're walking a lot slower). Sitcoms work pretty well for me, and there's a certain level of "not incredibly complicated but still entertaining" shows like Chuck that work well on the treadmill.. e.g. I could miss an entire fistfight or other tussle between the good guys & the bad guys and still get the plot.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

tivoboyjr said:


> As I recall, Jack and Locke both came across them in S1. I think Locke is the one who called them Adam and Eve. I believe Jack (or maybe Locke) found a bag next to them that contained one small black rock and a small white rock. The bodies were basically skeletons so they had been there while - I believe Locke speculated that it was 50 years or so (but I could be wrong about that - haven't seen it since S1).


Episode 6, House of the Rising Sun



> [Shot of skeleton.]
> 
> KATE: Who is he. How'd he get here?
> 
> ...


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

I just had to share this about Annyong. 

I'm *not* the only one who thought about Arrested Development.

http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatch/200...tch-Clip du jour: Sun, meet Annyong. Annyong!

So take that. 

Greg


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

OK, I've scanned this thread, and it hasn't come up. If Locke has stopped the island from moving through time by fixing the wheel, how does Daniel go back in time to infiltrate Dharma at the Orchid?


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

I suppose we don't know several things: when in time everyone wound up after Locke rejiggled it; whether the time changes even stopped after he did so; and we don't know "when" the Faraday scenes occurred. Maybe at the end of series Desmond somehow sends him back in time to heal things. (shrug) We just don't know.

What I thought was interesting was nobody in the Losties commented that the flashes were happening more often the closer they got to the Orchid.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Philosofy said:


> OK, I've scanned this thread, and it hasn't come up. If Locke has stopped the island from moving through time by fixing the wheel, how does Daniel go back in time to infiltrate Dharma at the Orchid?


We don't know Locke's stopped the island from moving. We know he gets off the island, but we didn't see what happened AFTER he jiggled the unfrozen donkey wheel.

There are a million possibilities though. He could have transported himself to Tunisia while simultaneously stopping the island from moving, while transporting everyone else to the creation of the Dharma Initiative.

Yes, that's stupid. But anything is possible. 

Greg


----------



## sonnik (Jul 7, 2000)

What did Charlotte say ... something about her knowledge of an ancient society (Greece?) ... more than Odysseus?

Odysseus was married to 'Penelope' according to Mythology.

Not sure if I am remembering her comments correctly right now. 

I'm wondering if there's a link to the statue's (four-toe) foot we saw at the end of Season 2.


----------



## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

When we first say Faraday, when the fake Oceanic wreck was discovered, it made him very sad but he couldn't remember why...was Charlotte's death what made him sad?


----------



## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

Philosofy said:


> OK, I've scanned this thread, and it hasn't come up. If Locke has stopped the island from moving through time by fixing the wheel, how does Daniel go back in time to infiltrate Dharma at the Orchid?


Because Locke hasn't stopped it yet.


----------



## shaunrose (Sep 13, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Someone else already mentioned it, but I'm pretty sure that we're going to see that Charlotte was Ben's girlfriend when he was little.


I was thinking this as well, but didn't Ben see Charlotte when she got to the island? In fact, didn't he shoot her? Given that we saw a scene a few seasons back of adult Ben looking at the dolls that Annie gave him, he must have a pretty strong and fond memory of her. It would seem odd that he would try to kill her.


----------



## BrandonRe (Jul 15, 2006)

jkeegan said:


> They're there at their camp


Thank you.


----------



## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

tivoboyjr said:


> As I recall, Jack and Locke both came across them in S1. I think Locke is the one who called them Adam and Eve. I believe Jack (or maybe Locke) found a bag next to them that contained one small black rock and a small white rock. The bodies were basically skeletons so they had been there while - I believe Locke speculated that it was 50 years or so (but I could be wrong about that - haven't seen it since S1). Nothing more has been made of them that I can remember, but it is fun to speculate as to who they may be (Jack & Kate, Sawyer & Kate, Des & Penny, Ben & Walt, etc.)


I have no doubt we'll eventually find out who Adam and Eve are, but think it's funny that it's even necessary. Back when Adam and Eve were discovered, we knew very little about the island, so the appearance of two, long-dead bodies was quite intriguing. We've learned so much about the island and the goings on revolving around the island that, if the Losties were to stumble across the same two bodies for the first time right now, we probably wouldn't think too much of it. Because it was intriguing when first presented, however, everyone expects that the identity of these two bodies will be some great revelation.



jkeegan said:


> They're there at their camp.


Best sentence I've ever seen in a post. Even better than "Too many two's to count."


----------



## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

Philosofy said:


> OK, I've scanned this thread, and it hasn't come up. If Locke has stopped the island from moving through time by fixing the wheel, how does Daniel go back in time to infiltrate Dharma at the Orchid?


Maybe everyone is now stuck on the island at the same time as when the Dharma initiative was there. Who knows what time they were in when Locke righted the wheel? It would give the producers an easy way to show everything we want to know about the Dharma Initiative.

I think Juliet and Sawyer know about the purge too so that would make it even more interesting... and seeing them interact with young Ben.. this would be really cool IMO...

However, it may may getting back to the island for the rest of them kind of hard  so I doubt this is how it will go down...


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Fish Man said:


> Jin specifically asked him to tell her he was dead. If he had done that, he'd have given her the ring. Clearly, he didn't.


That was only if Sun found Locke. Locke promised to not go to Sun at all, but if she came to him, then he would tell her that Jin was dead.



> DANIELLE: Our vessel was 3 days out of Tahiti when our instruments malfunctioned. It was night, a storm, the sounds. The ship slammed into rocks, ran aground, the hull breached beyond repair. So, we made camp, dug out this temporary shelter. Temporary. Nearly 2 months we survived here, 2 months before --


Hmmm. That doesn't seem to match up with what we saw. With Jin, they were heading toward the radio tower the next day when they were attacked by the monster. Unless 2 months had passed between the last episode and this one, which I highly doubt.



DevdogAZ said:


> As hefe asked, I'd like more information about this too. I don't remember that at all.


I could have sworn that I remembered seeing an episode where someone saw a rope, and pulled on it only to find it strange that it was stuck in the ground. I wasn't thinking of the cable either; I remembered that as a separate event.

As far as when they jumped, we don't know that they jumped to before the well was built; they could have jumped to after it was covered up. We know that the well was there some time when Charlotte was, but at the time Dharma built the Orchid, they were drilling to get to the wheel. Perhaps Charlotte was not part of the Dharma Initiative, but was one of the natives. When Dharma came, they covered up the well to hide the wheel, and fled the island. But then the Losties appeared via time travel with their rope, and that led Dharma to the wheel's location.


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

3D said:


> I have no doubt we'll eventually find out who Adam and Eve are, but think it's funny that it's even necessary. Back when Adam and Eve were discovered, we knew very little about the island, so the appearance of two, long-dead bodies was quite intriguing. We've learned so much about the island and the goings on revolving around the island that, if the Losties were to stumble across the same two bodies for the first time right now, we probably wouldn't think too much of it. Because it was intriguing when first presented, however, everyone expects that the identity of these two bodies will be some great revelation.


I agree. At the time it was a big deal because they were still discovering the island and it showed that people had been there long before them. Now that we know lots of people have been there, it's not really a big deal. I wouldn't be surprised if this is one of the mysteries that remains unsolved. I'd trade an answer on Adam and Eve to finding out what the deal is with the statue or even the Hurley Bird.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

jlb said:


> I vote: Hot!











Can I vote both?


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Since they're flashing through time so randomly at this point, isn't it highly unlikely that once it stops, that they'll get back to the exact point in time where they started flashing? And if they don't, isn't there always the chance that they'd encounter themselves? I hope I'm not opening a huge can of worms with that question.


----------



## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

smickola said:


> When we first say Faraday, when the fake Oceanic wreck was discovered, it made him very sad but he couldn't remember why...was Charlotte's death what made him sad?


Hmm...I had forgotten about this. Just storing this away for later.


----------



## Cindy1230 (Oct 31, 2003)

tivoboyjr said:


> I got the impression that Ben didn't know that Eloise is Faraday's mother, but I need to watch it again. Maybe he was just surprised to see Desmond - and does Ben even know Desmond? I can't remember. Nosebleed and all.


I feel like i need to start donating money to Lostpedia:



> This is the first episode of the entire series in which Ben and Desmond speak to each other. They had previously only been in one scene together, at the cockpit wreckage in "The Beginning of the End." Season 4, Ep 1


----------



## Cindy1230 (Oct 31, 2003)

smickola said:


> When we first say Faraday, when the fake Oceanic wreck was discovered, it made him very sad but he couldn't remember why...was Charlotte's death what made him sad?


According to that enhanced episode and lostpedia... 
I'll spoiler since it hasn't actually been said in an episode.



Spoiler



Daniel lived in Essex, Massachusetts under the watch of a caretaker.



What's that all about?


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

BitbyBlit said:


> I could have sworn that I remembered seeing an episode where someone saw a rope, and pulled on it only to find it strange that it was stuck in the ground. I wasn't thinking of the cable either; I remembered that as a separate event.


I kinda sorta remember something like that. Seems like when they found one of the hatches, somebody (Sawyer, or maybe Locke) found a rope then followed it to a large, manhole cover type door in the ground. But that could be wrong, and may not be what you were thinking of.



hefe said:


> Episode 6, House of the Rising Sun


Thanks for clearing that up.



Cindy1230 said:


> I feel like i need to start donating money to Lostpedia:


Thanks for clearing that up. I've intentionally avoided Lostpedia, but probably not for much longer. I know as soon as I hit the site, I'll never leave, and I'll wind up jobless and homeless (but better informed about Lost).


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## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

Cindy1230 said:


> According to that enhanced episode and lostpedia...
> I'll spoiler since it hasn't actually been said in an episode.
> 
> 
> ...


Actually, we saw this in a Daniel flashback last season in the episode Confirmed Dead.


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## Cindy1230 (Oct 31, 2003)

brermike said:


> Actually, we saw this in a Daniel flashback last season in the episode Confirmed Dead.


I recall the episode.. my question is about the identity of the woman in the scene.



Spoiler



that she was daniel's caretaker


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## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

Cindy1230 said:


> I recall the episode.. my question is about the identity of the woman in the scene.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, I see. I bet we'll find out later this season. That and why he was crying when he saw the wreckage of 815.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

jkeegan said:


> They're there at their camp


LOL I wonder how many high school seniors could write out that sentence correctly.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

tewcewl said:


> Also, is the reason why Christian couldn't help Locke up because he's an apparition, a vision


But when Locke was lying there he heard Christian walking up. Can you hear an apparition's footsteps?

When Locke promised Jin not to tell Sun I'm thinking, there's no way he will compromise his mission to save Sun--promise or not. He's getting just like Ben. An end justifies the means guy who's sure he's always right.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. They're not ghosts or apparitions, they're time travelers.


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

I'm telling you... All the "dead" people we see will be shown as Smoky taking on their forms.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Fleegle said:


> I'm telling you... All the "dead" people we see will be shown as Smoky taking on their forms.


That could be. We've seen that happen before - with Ecko and his brother.


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

tivoboyjr said:


> That could be. We've seen that happen before - with Ecko and his brother.


Exactly. I positive that every time we've seen Dr. Shepherd Sr, it's been Smoky.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

tivoboyjr said:


> That could be. We've seen that happen before - with Ecko and his brother.


I forget. How do we know Yemi was a Smokey apparition?


----------



## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

Ok, here goes:



> Hmmm. That doesn't seem to match up with what we saw. With Jin, they were heading toward the radio tower the next day when they were attacked by the monster. Unless 2 months had passed between the last episode and this one, which I highly doubt.


Her original description from Solitary also makes it sound like their boat actually crashed on the island, but we saw them arrive on a raft, as if it crashed somewhere else. Oops?



> But's not his past...it's his future, which he has every ability to change. But it's in Charlotte's past...which brings us to the crux of using time travel...you are bound to create situations where your rules you create don't work out.


THANK YOU. I serouisly f***ing hate time travel. While it hasn't pushed me over the edge YET on this show, I honestly wish they just left it alone (unless it ends up the way I theorize it will--then I'll be ok with it).



> I have no doubt we'll eventually find out who Adam and Eve are, but think it's funny that it's even necessary. Everyone expects that the identity of these two bodies will be some great revelation.


Agreed 100%. I'm already waiting for the cheesy, predictable reveal that it's gonna be two people we know already and that's gonna really suck for me because any time you have people confronting their own skeletons, I think that creates a paradox and I don't like it. I hope they writer's don't do the obvious thing and instead make it some random people we meet in a flashback or something. I'm not holding my breath though.

The thing I find funny is how people are so convinced that the writers had all these details planned way back in the first season. I'm not saying they didnt have a plan but they've openly admitted to not really knowing where everything was gonna go back then. So, when they sat down to write season five, they went back through the first few seasons and tailored their flashback ideas to fit with what was already previously stated. This doesn't mean that back in season one they planned all these meticulous details out, it just means that they're crafting their stories around what they've already established. I do believe that since they announced an end-date, it's a different ball game and everything from seasons 4, 5, 6 *are* planned out very well (though not to an exact science, I'm sure)... but back S1 they were making up a lot of stuff as they went and just going with it.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

tewcewl said:


> I forget. How do we know Yemi was a Smokey apparition?


I don't think we know that for certain, but what I remember from watching the show is that it was pretty clear that this is what we were supposed to think. I'll have to see if I can track down that episode. I'd love to see it again.

[ETA: Just watched that scene on youtube (thanks, Tivo). It's called "Lost - Eko killed by monster". I also happened to see something called "Ecko booty shaker," but that is unrelated. The scene wasn't as complete as I would like; I would've liked to have seen more from a few minutes prior to when it starts. It begins with Eko and Yemi talking. Eko says he didn't choose his life, it was given to him, but he did the best he could with it. Then Yemi says "You speak to me as if I were your brother" and walks away. Eko starts shouting "who are you?" and goes after him but doesn't find him. We immediately see smokey, who then proceeds to pummel Eko into the ground and into trees until he is dead. As he is dying, Locke, Sawyer, Sayid, and Nikki come out of the hatch to see what is going on. Eko whispers his last words to Locke, then dies. Locke is asked "what did he say?" Locke replies "we're next."]

There do seem to be different categories of the strange things we are seeing. There's Dave, who was probably in Hurley's head, there's the Walt appearances, which could have been in people's minds, could have been smokey, could be an apparition of some other sort. There's Kate's horse, which Sawyer saw, too, that seemed pretty real, but probably wasn't. Then there's Yemi, Christian, and Claire. If Smokey is capable of taking the form of Yemi, then it should be able to do the same with other people. Just when I thought the writers were neglecting smokey, he makes another appearance so maybe smokey does have something to do with the dead people we are seeing. Then again, what does it mean when Kate sees Claire off the island? Just a dream? Maybe. And maybe time travel is involved in some of this stuff as well, like when Sawyer was there with Kate and Claire when Claire was giving birth or when Locke gets to meet a young Chuck Widmore.



mrdazzo7 said:


> The thing I find funny is how people are so convinced that the writers had all these details planned way back in the first season. I'm not saying they didnt have a plan but they've openly admitted to not really knowing where everything was gonna go back then. So, when they sat down to write season five, they went back through the first few seasons and tailored their flashback ideas to fit with what was already previously stated. This doesn't mean that back in season one they planned all these meticulous details out, it just means that they're crafting their stories around what they've already established. I do believe that since they announced an end-date, it's a different ball game and everything from seasons 4, 5, 6 *are* planned out very well (though not to an exact science, I'm sure)... but back S1 they were making up a lot of stuff as they went and just going with it.


I'm with you on that. They threw so much stuff out there in seasons 1-3 and now they get to pick and choose what they draw on to wrap things up.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

mrdazzo7 said:


> The thing I find funny is how people are so convinced that the writers had all these details planned way back in the first season. I'm not saying they didnt have a plan but they've openly admitted to not really knowing where everything was gonna go back then. So, when they sat down to write season five, they went back through the first few seasons and tailored their flashback ideas to fit with what was already previously stated. This doesn't mean that back in season one they planned all these meticulous details out, it just means that they're crafting their stories around what they've already established. I do believe that since they announced an end-date, it's a different ball game and everything from seasons 4, 5, 6 *are* planned out very well (though not to an exact science, I'm sure)... but back S1 they were making up a lot of stuff as they went and just going with it.


From an EW interview last year:
Damon Lindelof, "There were certain things we knew from the very beginning. Independent of ever knowing when the end was going to be, we knew what it was going to be, and we wanted to start setting it up as early as season 1, or else people would think that we were making it up as we were going along. So the skeletons are the living-or, I guess, slowly decomposing-proof of that. When all is said and done, people are going to point to the skeletons and say, 'That is proof that from the very beginning, they always knew that they were going to do this.'"


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

stellie93 said:


> But when Locke was lying there he heard Christian walking up. Can you hear an apparition's footsteps?


You could just as easily as you could hear an apparition's voice. Whether it was all in Locke's head or the apparition was interacting with the environment, however it was able to talk would allow it to make other sounds.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> Someone else already mentioned it, but I'm pretty sure that we're going to see that Charlotte was Ben's girlfriend when he was little.


Different name. Different age. Different accent. They don't recognize each other. Other than having been on the island before, they don't seem to have much in common.



sonnik said:


> What did Charlotte say ... something about her knowledge of an ancient society (Greece?) ... more than Odysseus?


If I recall correctly (and I do) she said she knew more about ancient Carthage than Hannibal. One possibility that crossed my mind is that she wasn't speaking to the Losties in her present, but was repeating someone from her past--perhaps a professor or expert in ancient history during her search for the island. Same for her comment "Dont let them bring her back, no matter what. This place is death!"-- she wasn't talking to Jin about Sun, but was repeating what Faraday said to her mother as she was taking her off the island.



jlb said:


> I vote: Hot!


She's not even as hot as Hillary Swank.


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

astrohip said:


> Ok, so we organize ourselves, and we all watch one episode a day, the same episode. Then we come back here and start new threads for each ep every day.


But not until 2019!


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Regarding the timeline of Danielle's party:

I don't think they just crashed on the Island when they found Jin. They could have been there for quite a while already. Maybe they were in the raft trying to get around the Island to the source of the transmissions. They were very suspicious, keeping their rifles ready, telling one another to keep the flashlight on Jin, like they didn't trust him. Then one of them says "Damn, he's still breathing" indicating that they would have preferred that he was dead. Sounds like they may have already had a run in with The Others by that point.

Some of the 2 months could also have passed *after* they left the Temple. They may not have "turned" immediately. Maybe what Danielle said to Sayid meant that it was 2 months before they got "sick" and she had to kill them. 

One thing we still don't know about is what kind of a "scientific" expedition it was. They were carrying guns -- lots of them (Sayid questioned her about that in S1). Maybe Danielle and Robert (the expecting couple, certainly wouldn't expect them to be comfortable going on an expedition requiring guns) were similar to Daniel, Miles and Charlotte as the civilian types among a group of mercenaries.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

I love those ideas and I'd happily rewatch it all.

What I'm also going to do though, in a me-centric way, is go back and read every post I made in any Lost threads, and find the best examples of where I went out on a limb with a prediction, turned out to be _right_, and had to defend the theory against disbelievers.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

That's a lot of posts. See ya in 2019, Jeff!


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Perhaps the Yemi scene was meant to trick us into linking apparitions with Smokey. I don't believe we've ever seen anything quite like that since. In fact, you might say that Smokey seems remarkably unsubtle at times.

The part that really bothers me about Smokey turning into some vision is the sounds it makes. Why when it is hunting does it sound like a rollercoaster car straining uphill, giving itself away time after time, and yet it can just turn that sound off if it turns into something else? I don't care if it's made of nannite, cordite, or dolomite that's weird behavior for a security system. 

The apparitions can be different too. Walt seemed like an astral projection that both Shannon and Sayid saw. Dave was real to Hurley, as was Charlie, but no one else could see them. Sawyer saw Kate's horse though. But ever wonder why Yemi tells Eko, "You speak to me as if I am your brother" while Christian says to Locke, "Say hello to my son"? Hmmm.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

So, she was 7 months pregnant in the first flash. In the 2nd, when we see Montand's rotted arm on the ground, Jin sees smoke on the horizon. That's what Danielle had told the Losties happened before the Others came to take her child, right?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

(except we see him get to the beach and there's a fire right there that's gone out, presumably set by Danielle/Robert)


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Btw, whoever said they thought Charlotte is Daniel's daughter, I disagree. She said in a kid's voice "Why can't daddy come?", and then later explained to Daniel that she grew up on the island as a kid and had to move off with her mother, and she never saw her Dad again. Then she said there was a crazy man who really scared her, who said she had to leave the island and never ever come back.

Those are different descriptions - Daniel isn't her father.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

mostman said:


> I'm still waiting for the explanation on why Rousseau didn't recognize Jin in 2004. I have the first season on DVD - is that when they "first" met? Maybe I should go check it out.


I'm curious about this too but I down own any of the DVDs. Has anyone had a chance to go back and look for the first time Daniel encountered Jin in the series?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

jkeegan said:


> I love those ideas and I'd happily rewatch it all.
> 
> What I'm also going to do though, in a me-centric way, is go back and read every post I made in any Lost threads, and find the best examples of where I went out on a limb with a prediction, turned out to be _right_, and had to defend the theory against disbelievers.


Who gets to do the ones where you were wrong?


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

stalemate said:


> I'm curious about this too but I down own any of the DVDs. Has anyone had a chance to go back and look for the first time Daniel encountered Jin in the series?


There was a scene where Danielle is standing in a circle of Losties and looking directly at Jin. She had a suspicious look on her face but, then again, she was suspicious of all of them. They did not zoom in and pause on her face.


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## ct1 (Jun 27, 2003)

wprager said:


> There was a scene where Danielle is standing in a circle of Losties and looking directly at Jin. She had a suspicious look on her face but, then again, she was suspicious of all of them. They did not zoom in and pause on her face.


She's thinking "Boy, they _do_ all look the same. Better not say anything or they'll think I'm racist."


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

wprager said:


> There was a scene where Danielle is standing in a circle of Losties and looking directly at Jin. She had a suspicious look on her face but, then again, she was suspicious of all of them. They did not zoom in and pause on her face.


I didn't expect them to zoom in and pause on her face, but if she spent any amount of time around Jin I was hoping she would have shown a hint of recognition.


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## jwjody (Dec 7, 2002)

The relationship to the monster and the Other kinda confuses me.

Apparently the Others (richard's group) had been on the island well before Dharma. After Ben killed the Dharma people the Others moved into Dharma's housing. And it was around that housing area that the security systems existed that kept the monster out.

So Dharma built the system that the Others were using to protect themselves. What did Richard's group do before then? Just not go to certain parts of the island?

I'm not sure that the apparitions are smokey. Ben also saw his dead mother in the woods and I believe that was the start of his communicating with Richard's group to kill Dharma.

I'm sure this has been mentioned before but I wonder what the relationship the temple has to the 4 toed statue on the coast. 

J


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

I watched 4x02 "Confirmed Dead" this morning. It's the episode where Faraday and party crash/land/parachute onto the island. The first time I've seen it since it aired originally. 

Very interesting seeing the hints of back-story for the landing party. Charlotte especially, since we know somewhat more about her now than we do about the others, and certainly more than we knew when it aired. Her thrill at finding the polar bear collar. Her wonder and amazement at seeing the island for the first time (again!) when taking off her helmet in the river.

Also interesting that the polar bear dig was in Tunisia. Tunisia is where Ancient Carthage was located. And, or course, she mentioned Ancient Carthage just before she died.

Miles and his ghost-busting is still a mystery awaiting an explanation. As is Faraday. Still haunting is the scene with Faraday crying while watching the fake 815 footage--it's a little scary knowing he's going to end up like that at some point.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Oh, and it looks darn good in blu-ray. Can't wait for the first and second season blu-ray release later this year.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Fool Me Twice said:


> I watched 4x02 "Confirmed Dead" this morning. It's the episode where Faraday and party crash/land/parachute onto the island. The first time I've seen it since it aired originally.
> 
> Very interesting seeing the hints of back-story for the landing party. Charlotte especially, since we know somewhat more about her now than we do about the others, and certainly more than we knew when it aired. Her thrill at finding the polar bear collar. Her wonder and amazement at seeing the island for the first time (again!) when taking off her helmet in the river.
> 
> ...


That's the first time I've seen it suggested that the scene with Daniel watching TV wasn't (to him) before his helicopter jump to the island (that'd be the only way he "ends up" like that). I don't know if that's even what you meant, but I'm not on board yet. I wouldn't be surprised if he's killed during the purge and never gets off the island.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Oh, yeah. I got confused. I just watched 4x3, and saw Charlotte's card memory game, and realized my mistake. Not the first time I've gotten the timeline mixed up. If anything goes wrong, jkeegan will be my constant.


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## mitchb2 (Sep 30, 2000)

BeanMeScot said:


> It will be fun to watch everything back to back to back.


And addictive! Every time that "LOST" comes up at the end, I shout "MORE!"

So, is there a relevant anagram of Eloise Hawking?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

mitchb2 said:


> And addictive! Every time that "LOST" comes up at the end, I shout "MORE!"
> 
> So, is there a relevant anagram of Eloise Hawking?


I don't know about an anagram, but so many characters are homages to historical figures with some significance...Hawking is obvious...Stephen Hawking, the physicist.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

And Lenny Hawking. The guy that ate erasers in my third grade class. He's a legend.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> So, she was 7 months pregnant in the first flash. In the 2nd, when we see Montand's rotted arm on the ground, Jin sees smoke on the horizon. That's what Danielle had told the Losties happened before the Others came to take her child, right?


Yes, she said the smoke appears just before the others... but there was another scene where we saw smoke on the horizon and I thought, "Oh, here come the others, that's what Danielle said", but nobody came. This was back around S3, when we'd just seen the Others camp.

In this particular case I think that smoke on the horizon is more to give us a hint as to when he appeared, it just wasn't as clear as some of the other hints.



stalemate said:


> I'm curious about this too but I down own any of the DVDs. Has anyone had a chance to go back and look for the first time Daniel encountered Jin in the series?





wprager said:


> There was a scene where Danielle is standing in a circle of Losties and looking directly at Jin. She had a suspicious look on her face but, then again, she was suspicious of all of them. They did not zoom in and pause on her face.


Think of it from less a viewer's perspective than from Danielle's. She's a young, pregnant woman on an expedition. They find Jin, talk with him for a while, her friend is sucked down by Smokey, then POOF, he disappears. A few months later when she's killing her buddies, he reappears momentarily, then POOF, he disappears.

Would she IMMEDIATELY recognize him 16 years later? It's really hard to say, I don't think so, but the memory would be tied to trauma. So I don't know. I have a hard time remembering what people look like when I haven't seen them for a few years, much less 16, so I dunno.

Greg


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## Rosincrans (May 4, 2006)

hefe said:


> I don't know about an anagram, but so many characters are homages to historical figures with some significance...Hawking is obvious...Stephen Hawking, the physicist.


Speaking of which, I've wondered about Benjamin Linus. Apart from Charlie Brown's friend, it doesn't ring any bells. Henry Gale was an obvious Wizard of Oz reference.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Has this been asked: Could the island be Atlantis?


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Philosofy said:


> Has this been asked: Could the island be Atlantis?


Well maybe not in this thread 
I'm also very much of the view that Atlantis is a viable choice, especially since to people several hundred years ago, an island disappearing the way this one does could be seen as sinking to the bottom of the ocean, i.e. why else would it be gone?

And the donkey wheel certainly looks old..

Diane


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

gchance said:


> My favorite part was the Lost/Arrested Development crossover.
> 
> Sun said, "Annyong!"
> 
> Greg


I caught that too, I said Annyong outloud like 3 times haha :up:


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Fahtrim said:


> I caught that too, I said Annyong outloud like 3 times haha :up:


She says that a lot. (I've noticed because every time the subtitles say "Hello" or "Goodbye" I look for it.) This might be the first time she said it in isolation like that, however.


----------



## Sromkie (Aug 15, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> She says that a lot. (I've noticed because every time the subtitles say "Hello" or "Goodbye" I look for it.) This might be the first time she said it in isolation like that, however.


Yes, she may have said it before, but this is the first time that it was isolated enough to where my roommates and I all looked at each other and one of us (not me, surprisingly) said "Annyong!"

It's funny how AD will always be tied to that word for me. ::sigh:: what a great show...


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

One more day.. Damn, my weeks are being wished away by Lost..


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Heh. http://www.lostrofl.com/blog1.php/2008/11/mcfly

And, heh. http://www.lostrofl.com/blog1.php/2008/09/lego


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Heh. http://www.lostrofl.com/blog1.php/2008/11/mcfly
> 
> And, heh. http://www.lostrofl.com/blog1.php/2008/09/lego


The 2nd one was great. I like these ones. If Lost Were More Like Seinfeld...






and






Greg


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## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Heh. http://www.lostrofl.com/blog1.php/2008/11/mcfly
> 
> And, heh. http://www.lostrofl.com/blog1.php/2008/09/lego


Very funny.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> One more day.. Damn, my weeks are being wished away by Lost..


"This Pace Is Death"


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Philosofy said:


> Has this been asked: Could the island be Atlantis?


Did Atlantean's have 4 toes?


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

betts4 said:


> Did Atlantean's have 4 toes?


No, but they have webbed fingers & toes, didn't you watch The Man From Atlantis?!?!









Greg


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

gchance said:


> The 2nd one was great. I like these ones. If Lost Were More Like Seinfeld...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WOW.. The second URL really, completely changes the mood of the scene.. (the one with Sun Jack and Ben). Wow..

That reminds me of a special I watched once on reality shows, and how editing is the entire show.. They showed example footage of a pitch someone made to them of an idea for a TV show (in front of a few people evaluating the idea), and they showed two versions of the same footage.. One version made the idea look like it actually might work as a TV show, and the other where it was the worst idea anyone had ever heard. Of course you know they'd be able to present both representations, but it was amazing just how different they could feel entirely from editing.

(Editing is one of my favorite aspects of movie making..)


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Oh yeah, and there are only 6 hours 18 minutes left until tonight's episode.


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## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

what episode was it where Claire appeared and told Kate not to bring Aaron back to the island? Didn't Claire speak without an Australian accent?


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## Dad (Oct 27, 2001)

stellie93 said:


> But when Locke was lying there he heard Christian walking up. Can you hear an apparition's footsteps?
> 
> When Locke promised Jin not to tell Sun I'm thinking, there's no way he will compromise his mission to save Sun--promise or not. He's getting just like Ben. An end justifies the means guy who's sure he's always right.


But Christian picked up the lantern, he wanted Locke to do it. Or maybe Christian/Smokey/whatever can't move the wheel.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

goMO said:


> what episode was it where Claire appeared and told Kate not to bring Aaron back to the island? Didn't Claire speak without an Australian accent?


Yup. The funny thing is it was so pronounced and so obvious, yet about 50% of the thread said, "Oh she had the accent, you could tell." I'm sure if you cross-referenced, you'd find it was the same group of people who thought Aaron HAD an accent. 

Greg


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

gchance said:


> Yup. The funny thing is it was so pronounced and so obvious, yet about 50% of the thread said, "Oh she had the accent, you could tell." I'm sure if you cross-referenced, you'd find it was the same group of people who thought Aaron HAD an accent.
> 
> Greg


I don't get this Claire didnt have an accent thing--this thread is the first time I'm reading that. I have to watch it again. All she said was "Don't bring him back, Kate... Don't you DARE bring him back"... "Dare" is the only word in there that I would think would have a clear accent, so I gues if she pronounced the "R" it wouldn't sound australian..>? Is that it?

*confused*


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

mrdazzo7 said:


> I don't get this Claire didnt have an accent thing--this thread is the first time I'm reading that. I have to watch it again. All she said was "Don't bring him back, Kate... Don't you DARE bring him back"... "Dare" is the only word in there that I would think would have a clear accent, so I gues if she pronounced the "R" it wouldn't sound australian..>? Is that it?
> 
> *confused*


That's exactly it. She has such a pronounced accent that saying her R in that word is not only obvious to us, the viewers, but it sounded like she had to work REALLY hard to say the R sound.

Personally it doesn't matter that much to me whether she did or didn't have the accent. I think the reason she didn't have the accent in that scene is they were giving us an audible clue that this wasn't the real Claire.

Greg


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

I can't believe so many people missed the explanation here.

It wasn't that Claire didn't have an accent. It wasn't Claire's voice without the accent ("Don't you dare bring him back!"). It was Kate's voice, coming out of Claire's mouth. Why, I don't know.

Watch this again. Listen to "Don't you dare bring him back!". That's Kate's voice.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

TiVotion said:


> I can't believe so many people missed the explanation here.
> 
> It wasn't that Claire didn't have an accent. It wasn't Claire's voice without the accent ("Don't you dare bring him back!"). It was Kate's voice, coming out of Claire's mouth. Why, I don't know.
> 
> Watch this again. Listen to "Don't you dare bring him back!". That's Kate's voice.


After listening again, I'd have to agree.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Well that's a new twist on it, and would be great if it were true.  Doesn't sound like her to me.

Greg


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

gchance said:


> Well that's a new twist on it, and would be great if it were true.  Doesn't sound like her to me.
> 
> Greg


Yeah, I gotta agree with Greg, I listened and heard the Claire actress w/o her accent.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

(but I don't think the lack of an accent was as significant as people think.. it didn't feel like a clue to me)


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

jkeegan said:


> (but I don't think the lack of an accent was as significant as people think.. it didn't feel like a clue to me)


Me too. Especially since she was kind of agitated and yelling.

Thought it was more like when you can't tell a person's accent when they sing as opposed to talking.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

hefe said:


> Me too. Especially since she was kind of agitated and yelling.
> 
> Thought it was more like when you can't tell a person's accent when they sing as opposed to talking.


In the early seasons we heard plenty of Claire yelling about "chahh-lee" and "my buy-bee," always with the Australian accent.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> (but I don't think the lack of an accent was as significant as people think.. it didn't feel like a clue to me)


I don't think it's that significant either. I do, however, think it was significant as a clue within that scene, as in, "OK, guys, this isn't the real Claire, it's just a vision."

Smokey? 

Greg


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