# Are cable cards still mandated?



## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

When the S3 box first came out, the first TiVo to use cable cards, one useful thing was cable cards were mandated. So if your cable company didn't want to support them, or just plain screwed up, you could force them to supply them.

Is this still the case?

We're with Comcast, and have 3 cable card TiVos, but I'm thinking of changing our cable plan. The problem is Comcast nowhere mention cable cards at an option. So I'm wondering if I change the plan, they'll just kill the cards we do have.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

btwyx said:


> When the S3 box first came out, the first TiVo to use cable cards, one useful thing was cable cards were mandated. So if your cable company didn't want to support them, or just plain screwed up, you could force them to supply them.
> 
> Is this still the case?
> 
> We're with Comcast, and have 3 cable card TiVos, but I'm thinking of changing our cable plan. The problem is Comcast nowhere mention cable cards at an option. So I'm wondering if I change the plan, they'll just kill the cards we do have.


i needed to call when i moved (and changed packages), but was assured it would not be an issue, and it wasn't - tv was ready to go on moving day, getting everything else working and on the same account was another story...


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

btwyx said:


> Is this still the case?


No.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Your favorite FCC administrator removed it and most cable providers dropped them as fast as they could. That's why a lot of new products don't support cable at all and unless you already have a TiVo, it's going to be hard to get a new card from your provider, because they'd rather sell you their box at $10 a month.


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## samsauce29 (Nov 30, 2007)

Worf said:


> Your favorite FCC administrator removed it and most cable providers dropped them as fast as they could. That's why a lot of new products don't support cable at all and unless you already have a TiVo, it's going to be hard to get a new card from your provider, because they'd rather sell you their box at $10 a month.


Agreed. There's another thread on here where Spectrum is blocking the addition of cable cards when moving from a Legacy TWC plan. They sent us a survey maybe 6 months ago that hinted they were thinking about dropping them altogether.

That said, if you have them on your account and working now, I'd at least call and ask. Chances are if they're on your account, they'll let them stay (for now).


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Comcast still offers CableCards, but be warned you won't get all the channels if you use them. Comcast has been adding channels exclusively as IPTV channels recently, which won't tune with a CableCard. I've had several channels "disappear" on my TiVo when they were migrated to IPTV. Fortunately they aren't channels I watch.

Because of this though, Comcast's web site won't let you sign up for many plans as it thinks (correctly) that your equipment isn't compatible. An agent can override that.

How to Get a CableCARD - Xfinity Support


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

morac said:


> Comcast still offers CableCards, but be warned you won't get all the channels if you use them. Comcast has been adding channels exclusively as IPTV channels recently, which won't tune with a CableCard. I've had several channels "disappear" on my TiVo when they were migrated to IPTV. Fortunately they aren't channels I watch.
> 
> Because of this though, Comcast's web site won't let you sign up for many plans as it thinks (correctly) that your equipment isn't compatible. An agent can override that.
> 
> How to Get a CableCARD - Xfinity Support


the op already has comcast cablecards, he won't lose any channels he hasn't already lost, he just wants to keep them with a new package moving forward, which was very easy in our market.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

They are not mandated any longer.

But not a single major cable company has stopped supporting them.

All signs indicate things are status quo as far as cards are concerned.

Change your plan. It’ll be fine.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

btwyx said:


> We're with Comcast, and have 3 cable card TiVos, but I'm thinking of changing our cable plan. The problem is Comcast nowhere mention cable cards at an option. So I'm wondering if I change the plan, they'll just kill the cards we do have.


Yes, as others have confirmed, Comcast does still support CableCARD-enabled devices and they will provide you with a free CableCARD if you need one depending on supply on hand (some Xfinity retail stores may be OOS but you can usually get them sent out to you by Comcast on request).

Although almost all new plans charge extra for each TV box (presently as low as $5.00 but increasing to between $7.50 and $8.50 starting next year), you may not be provided with the option to de-select it when subscribing if your plan includes DVR service. If you do it on-line, there used to be an option (buried on the TV equipment web page) to decline any STB/DVR in favor of using your own device, but that option seems to be disappearing. If subscribing over the phone or at the store, just insist that you do not want the TV box. In any case, if you accept the box initially you can always return it later when you have verified that your current devices are working as intended. Just make sure that you get a receipt and then check the following month's bill to ensure that the box rental charges have been removed.

If the CableCARDS you have in your devices are working in your current plan, then they should not need to be re-authorized for your new plan with Comcast (however, they might have to be re-provisioned by the system through your modem to reflect any changes in subscribed channels and services).

FWIW, below is an extract from the new pricing list for nearby Alameda county that is effective as of Jan 1, 2022, and which still shows the CableCARD as Comcast-supplied equipment:


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

chiguy50 said:


> Yes, as others have confirmed, Comcast does still support CableCARD-enabled devices and they will provide you with a free CableCARD if you need one depending on supply on hand (some Xfinity retail stores may be OOS but you can usually get them sent out to you by Comcast on request).
> 
> Although almost all new plans charge extra for each TV box (presently as low as $5.00 but increasing to between $7.50 and $8.50 starting next year), you may not be provided with the option to de-select it when subscribing if your plan includes DVR service. If you do it on-line, there used to be an option (buried on the TV equipment web page) to decline any STB/DVR in favor of using your own device, but that option seems to be disappearing. If subscribing over the phone or at the store, just insist that you do not want the TV box. In any case, if you accept the box initially you can always return it later when you have verified that your current devices are working as intended. Just make sure that you get a receipt and then check the following month's bill to ensure that the box rental charges have been removed.
> 
> ...


on a side note related to new pricing, i noticed the discount for paperless billing and auto-pay is dropping to $5, unless your auto-pay is from a checking account - then it's still $10.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

morac said:


> Comcast still offers CableCards, but be warned you won't get all the channels if you use them. Comcast has been adding channels exclusively as IPTV channels recently, which won't tune with a CableCard. I've had several channels "disappear" on my TiVo when they were migrated to IPTV. Fortunately they aren't channels I watch.


That's the major reason why I've been looking at alternatives. YouTube TV is the front runner, I haven't jumped because it'd lose the TiVo interface.

Of course, when I rang to ask why I couldn't get the HD version of the channel I wanted, the rep was clueless, and sent me another card, in case it was a card issue. It was only here I learnt about IPTV.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

chiguy50 said:


> If you do it on-line, there used to be an option (buried on the TV equipment web page) to decline any STB/DVR in favor of using your own device, but that option seems to be disappearing.


If it is still there, it's sufficiently buried I didn't find it. I went looking for that, which is when I got nervous about changing.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

Thanks everyone. That clears up that.

We're currently paying an enormous amount for cable. If I switched plans, I could save $50. If I switched to YouTube TV, I could save $100.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

btwyx said:


> Thanks everyone. That clears up that.
> 
> We're currently paying an enormous amount for cable. If I switched plans, I could save $50. If I switched to YouTube TV, I could save $100.


i suggest keeping both services during the yttv free trial, just in case it doesn't live up to expectations - good luck!


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## spiderpumpkin (Dec 1, 2017)

I recently added a third cablecard to my Comcast account, and all three are free each month. I have 2 Roamio Pros and a HD Homerun Prime. 

Having the HDHR Prime on my home network works great and adds my cable channels to my Channels DVR setup.

Channels DVR TV Everywhere functionality has also allowed me to get a few of the IP only HD channels I like that cablecard can't get. Those being Sundance HD, FXM HD, AHC HD and Hallmark Drama.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> i suggest keeping both services during the yttv free trial, just in case it doesn't live up to expectations - good luck!


I've already done the month's trial with a TiVo Stream 4k, and then paid for a month with a Chromecast with Google TV. I can get all the service I want, with better quality in a lot of cases, but it looses the TiVo interface, which is why I haven't dumped Comcast yet.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

btwyx said:


> Thanks everyone. That clears up that.
> 
> We're currently paying an enormous amount for cable. If I switched plans, I could save $50. If I switched to YouTube TV, I could save $100.


Just as a FYI if you use Comcast's Internet service. Comcast has caps on their Internet service. The caps were waived in the Northeast till 2022 (I.e. end of this month).

Keep that in mind when comparing prices as if YT TV causes you to exceed 1.2 TB, you'll either need to pay a $30 monthly unlimited fee or risk being socked with up to $100 a month in overage charges


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

morac said:


> Just as a FYI if you use Comcast's Internet service.


I don't.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

No one said they weren't supporting CableCards. In fact, the set top boxes they provide will use them internally.

The problem is that being no longer required to provide them, cable providers dropped carrying them practically instantly and are making it beyond needlessly difficult to obtain them if you want them. 

In other words, they're still supported, but you have to move heaven and earth if you want one outside of their box. This is intentional. You'd think with people cutting the cord in larger numbers, they'd actually try satisfying their current customers needs rather than push them towards considering alternatives, but what do I know about business.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Worf said:


> No one said they weren't supporting CableCards. In fact, the set top boxes they provide will use them internally.
> 
> The problem is that being no longer required to provide them, cable providers dropped carrying them practically instantly and are making it beyond needlessly difficult to obtain them if you want them.
> 
> In other words, they're still supported, but you have to move heaven and earth if you want one outside of their box. This is intentional. You'd think with people cutting the cord in larger numbers, they'd actually try satisfying their current customers needs rather than push them towards considering alternatives, but what do I know about business.


They might care if CC users were more than 1% of their customers, and they figure they will still get your business anyway, one way or another. You don't have to "know about business" to understand their behavior. They are a huge organization and unless such entities are lead in a dictatorial fashion by someone who really cares about customer satisfaction at the expense of the next quarter's bottom line (a rare occurrence) this is what you get. Little mom-and-pop businesses sometimes are willing to sacrifice a little profit for customer satisfaction but rarely large corporations. It's just human nature responding to the context.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NorthAlabama said:


> on a side note related to new pricing, i noticed the discount for paperless billing and auto-pay is dropping to $5, unless your auto-pay is from a checking account - then it's still $10.


Good catch! That small change, effective as of Jan 1 next year, had escaped my attention. I guess I'll make the appropriate change to my Autopay settings; or, on second thought, perhaps I'll wait a month to see whether they are grandfathering in pre-existing payment arrangements.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

chiguy50 said:


> Good catch! That small change, effective as of Jan 1 next year, had escaped my attention. I guess I'll make the appropriate change to my Autopay settings; or, on second thought, perhaps I'll wait a month to see whether they are grandfathering in pre-existing payment arrangements.
> 
> View attachment 66263


My area doesn't give any discounts for autopay or multiple products (other than contract bundles).


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

morac said:


> My area doesn't give any discounts for autopay or multiple products (other than contract bundles).


Really? What city/zip code are you in?


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

chiguy50 said:


> Really? What city/zip code are you in?


that's standard for comcast promotional discounts with existing customers in our market, but the discounts for long-time customers are awesome.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

chiguy50 said:


> If you do it on-line, there used to be an option (buried on the TV equipment web page) to decline any STB/DVR in favor of using your own device, but that option seems to be disappearing.


I futzed around with Comcast's online ordering system and noticed that they've revamped the Simple & Easy Plan Builder UI/flow. But at least in my area, you can still decline taking any X1 boxes when you order TV service, with the UI noting that you'll use xfinity.com/stream and/or the Xfinity Stream app to access service.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> that's standard for comcast promotional discounts with existing customers in our market, but the discounts for long-time customers are awesome.


I've been a customer for over 20 years. I usually get nothing. I did get $40 off a double play package 2 years ago. The discount dropped to $20 recently so I called in and tried to get a better deal and the price I got was $10 higher than what I'm paying now.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

morac said:


> My area doesn't give any discounts for autopay or multiple products (other than contract bundles).





NorthAlabama said:


> that's standard for comcast promotional discounts with existing customers in our market, but the discounts for long-time customers are awesome.


Hmm, I have not seen that in my incognito explorations of Comcast markets (of course, I have not covered all of the regions or customer scenarios). IDK exactly where in N. Alabama you are located, but I just checked in Huntsville and the itemized cost breakdown I was given does include both the multi-product and Autopay discounts in addition to bundle pricing:


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

morac said:


> I've been a customer for over 20 years. I usually get nothing. I did get $40 off a double play package 2 years ago. The discount dropped to $20 recently so I called in and tried to get a better deal and the price I got was $10 higher than what I'm paying now.




chiguy50 said:


> Hmm, I have not seen that in my incognito explorations of Comcast markets (of course, I have not covered all of the regions or customer scenarios). IDK exactly where in N. Alabama you are located, but I just checked in Huntsville and the itemized cost breakdown I was given does include both the multi-product and Autopay discounts in addition to bundle pricing:


probably due to competition? here's a recent bill:










this will renew in full with a new contract 7/22, the reason for the "portion" comment is due to being under contract while moving this year, but they'll sync upon renewal.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

morac said:


> I've been a customer for over 20 years. I usually get nothing. I did get $40 off a double play package 2 years ago. The discount dropped to $20 recently so I called in and tried to get a better deal and the price I got was $10 higher than what I'm paying now.


Again, what city/zip code are you in? And do you have a term agreement?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

chiguy50 said:


> Again, what city/zip code are you in? And do you have a term agreement?


yes I'm under contract.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

chiguy50 said:


> Again, what city/zip code are you in? And do you have a term agreement?


yes, huntspatch huntsville, and it's a 24-month term (in the pic) - i've already adjusted my auto-bill to checking, i don't want to risk losing the added discount, plus they've never auto-billed my account anyway, i always pay ahead of the date.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NorthAlabama said:


> ​probably due to competition? here's a recent bill:


I understood your previous post to say that in your area new customers do not get the Autopay discount. My last post would appear to contradict that statement, or did I misinterpret you?



NorthAlabama said:


> yes, huntspatch huntsville, and it's a 24-month term (in the pic) - i've already adjusted my auto-bill to checking, i don't want to risk losing the added discount, plus they've never auto-billed my account anyway, i always pay ahead of the date.


Perhaps we have some cross-talk here as my question was directed to morac, but thanks for that confirmation. So in your city new subscribers should in fact be eligible for the Autopay and multi-product discounts that you currently enjoy.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

morac said:


> 08075 and yes I'm under contract.


I can not address your individual situation (with Comcast, no generalization is safe), but a new customer in your zip is indeed entitled to the Autopay discount, as well as the $10 discount for establishing or maintaining an Xfinity Mobile line. See the below offer extract:


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

chiguy50 said:


> I can not address your individual situation (with Comcast, no generalization is safe), but a new customer in your zip is indeed entitled to the Autopay discount, as well as the $10 discount for establishing or maintaining an Xfinity Mobile line. See the below offer extract:
> 
> View attachment 66287


Looks like the paperless billing discount is only good for 2 years.

Also I don't use Xfinity mobile.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

chiguy50 said:


> I understood your previous post to say that in your area new customers do not get the Autopay discount. My last post would appear to contradict that statement, or did I misinterpret you?


misinterpreted, apologies for the confusion, it's offered with all term agreements, new or existing.


> Perhaps we have some cross-talk here as my question was directed to morac, but thanks for that confirmation. So in your city new subscribers should in fact be eligible for the Autopay and multi-product discounts that you currently enjoy.


correct.


morac said:


> Looks like the paperless billing discount is only good for 2 years.


it's good for the contract term, and renews with a new contract, both new and existing customers, and can be added or removed online at any time, though it takes 1-2 months following addition for the discount to appear on the bill.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NashGuy said:


> I futzed around with Comcast's online ordering system and noticed that they've revamped the Simple & Easy Plan Builder UI/flow. But at least in my area, you can still decline taking any X1 boxes when you order TV service, with the UI noting that you'll use xfinity.com/stream and/or the Xfinity Stream app to access service.


(N.B.: The revamped web pages have some serious formatting glitches, particularly on the Firefox browser, that inhibit selections from what are intended to be drop-down menus.) Yes, on the Customize TV Equipment page you must select the "More Options" drop-down button to the right of the "Add a TV Box" button in order to be presented with the choice of declining a rental STB. Even here, the choice is not evident as you must know to click the small arrow on the right for the button to decline a box to appear.

It's a bit underhanded but relatively benign given what else goes on in our cut-throat capitalist system. At least they aren't using pre-checked boxes forcing you to deselect the rental equipment. . . . And as of yet there's no push to pay for undercoating.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

chiguy50 said:


> (N.B.: The revamped web pages have some serious formatting glitches, particularly on the Firefox browser, that inhibit selections from what are intended to be drop-down menus.) Yes, on the Customize TV Equipment page you must select the "More Options" drop-down button to the right of the "Add a TV Box" button in order to be presented with the choice of declining a rental STB. Even here, the choice is not evident as you must know to click the small arrow on the right for the button to decline a box to appear.
> 
> It's a bit underhanded but relatively benign given what else goes on in our cut-throat capitalist system. At least they aren't using pre-checked boxes forcing you to deselect the rental equipment. . . . And as of yet there's no push to pay for undercoating.


i believe there's another oppotunity to edit the equipment upon final order review before completing checkout, iirc.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

morac said:


> Looks like the paperless billing discount is only good for 2 years.
> 
> Also I don't use Xfinity mobile.


As NorthAlabama has already pointed out, all of the discounts are tied to the term of the agreement. Once the term expires all contractual obligations--to include the discounts--will also terminate, but the services will continue on a month-to-month basis at the then-going retail rate. However, you generally have the option of executing a new agreement at any time, whether before or after the end of an existing agreement, if you want to change services or take advantage of a better deal, or just to avoid paying full freight.

Last month I negotiated a new bundle deal for my sister and BIL in California, and their Autopay and XM discounts renewed automatically as they were once again included as part of the new bundle arrangement.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NorthAlabama said:


> i believe there's another oppotunity to edit the equipment upon final order review before completing checkout, iirc.


And, to be fair, Comcast has now included an estimate of TOTAL recurring monthly costs (not including locally accessed fees and taxes) at each phase of the plan builder so that you can see early on in the process what your bill will come to. And I believe the final cost estimate upon checkout also adds in those local fees and taxes, which in my limited experience I have found to be extremely accurate.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

chiguy50 said:


> And, to be fair, Comcast has now included an estimate of TOTAL recurring monthly costs (not including locally accessed fees and taxes) at each phase of the plan builder so that you can see early on in the process what your bill will come to. And I believe the final cost estimate upon checkout also adds in those local fees and taxes, which in my limited experience I have found to be extremely accurate.


yes, a big and welcomed change, and you're right, it's generally spot on.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Just as a side note about Comcast TV rates, they appear to be pretty price competitive these days. I downloaded the Jan. 2022 rate card, with new higher rates, for where my parents live near Chattanooga. Assuming you can't get any kind of promo/contract discount and you're paying the full retail price (which many folks don't), the incremental cost of adding their "Popular TV" package (what used to be called Extra) to standalone broadband, without any box rentals or DVR upgrade, costs $77.60.

Popular TV (including HD and 20 hrs cloud DVR): $70
Broadcast TV fee: $17
RSN fee: $10.60
2-product discount: -$20

For the most part, the only streaming cable TV option that includes RSNs is DirecTV Stream's Choice package, which will go up to $90/mo in Jan. Like Comcast, it also includes HD and 20 hrs cloud DVR, is contract-free, and does not include any boxes. Granted, it has much better HD picture quality than Comcast, and using their app is probably a much nicer experience than using the Xfinity Stream app. But still, it costs about $12/mo more. If you want to buy the DirecTV Stream box, it costs $5/mo for 24 months, then the price rolls off because you own the box. Comcast instead charges $8.50/mo to rent each X1 box. Both services charge $10/mo to upgrade your cloud DVR capacity. DirecTV Stream upgrades you to unlimited storage, but with only 90 days retention, while Comcast upgrades you to 150 hours with 365 days retention. The only other option to get a cable package with RSNs is DirecTV satellite, which costs more than DirecTV Stream and requires a 2-yr contract.

If you don't care about RSNs, though, you may save a bit by going with YouTube TV or Fubo TV (both $65) or Hulu with Live TV ($70 with Disney+ and ESPN+ included) rather than Comcast's Popular TV package. 

Around here, it looks like the only way to get a promo discount that reduces the incremental cost of adding Popular TV is to take 100 Mbps or faster broadband as a new customer (or perhaps as an existing one who takes a new contract). Combining Popular TV with their 50 Mbps "Connect" broadband doesn't score you any additional promo discount beyond what they offer for just standalone Connect.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

NashGuy said:


> Just as a side note about Comcast TV rates, they appear to be pretty price competitive these days. I downloaded the Jan. 2022 rate card, with new higher rates, for where my parents live near Chattanooga. Assuming you can't get any kind of promo/contract discount and you're paying the full retail price (which many folks don't), the incremental cost of adding their "Popular TV" package (what used to be called Extra) to standalone broadband, without any box rentals or DVR upgrade, costs $77.60.
> 
> Popular TV (including HD and 20 hrs cloud DVR): $70
> Broadcast TV fee: $17
> ...


my triple-play package, with pouplar tv (Limited Basic, Sports & News, Kids & Family, Entertainment, Streampix, HD Programming, 20 Hours of DVR Service), superfast internet (600/20), and voice, is $90 after contract, multiple svcs, and green/auto-pay discounts.

when you add broadcast, rsn's, equipment, and tax, it's another $40, but that's still the best deal i can find for all three around here, it's the reason i stay.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

I hit the button to change the package. At that point it said to please send my 3 cable cards back to them.

I tried the online cable card thingy, but it had "trouble accessing your account." So I called the number given, and I talked to someone.

At first she didn't even seem to know what a cable card was. After a 5 minute hold she came back and I said I wanted to make sure the cards were still on the account. She said they weren't, so I asked for them to be put back.

After a 10 minute hold she came back to say they were now on the account, and everything should continue to work. I'll believe that when the service doesn't go phut sometime soon.

Add: They are showing up on my Comcast account, so there is hope.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> For the most part, the only streaming cable TV option that includes RSNs is DirecTV Stream's Choice package,


I'm firmly under the impression that the YouTube TV package includes regional sports networks (that's what RSN means?) It does include:
NBC Sports Bay Area
NBC Sports Bay Area Plus
NBC Sports California
NBC Sports California Plus

But I don't actually care about them.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

btwyx said:


> I'm firmly under the impression that the YouTube TV package includes regional sports networks (that's what RSN means?) It does include:
> NBC Sports Bay Area
> NBC Sports Bay Area Plus
> NBC Sports California
> ...


You can always get the list here:
YouTube TV - Watch & DVR Live Sports, Shows & News

My zip has 3 RSNs as far as I can tell.

I always thought Fubo was very sports centric, but I could be mistaken. I don't care enough to look it up.


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## randyb359 (Jan 3, 2009)

dlfl said:


> They might care if CC users were more than 1% of their customers, and they figure they will still get your business anyway, one way or another. You don't have to "know about business" to understand their behavior. They are a huge organization and unless such entities are lead in a dictatorial fashion by someone who really cares about customer satisfaction at the expense of the next quarter's bottom line (a rare occurrence) this is what you get. Little mom-and-pop businesses sometimes are willing to sacrifice a little profit for customer satisfaction but rarely large corporations. It's just human nature responding to the context.


Maybe if they had embraced cable cards when they came out they would have not lost half their customers to streaming.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

mdavej said:


> I always thought Fubo was very sports centric, but I could be mistaken. I don't care enough to look it up.


It is, BUT, they've jacked up their rates. They are charging $5-$6 RSN fees, even if you don't want the RSN, just like the cablecos do. So, min $70
https://support.fubo.tv/hc/en-us/articles/360046050051-What-is-the-Regional-Sports-Fee- The other problem I had when I was with them is the DVR function. It was terrible, especially if you were chasing a game. I left before the RSN fees hit.

I am now with Fios, and it is $76 for the more package which includes my RSN with no additional RSN fees or Broadcast fees. I do have to pay an extra $5 for the cableCARD, so my whole package is $121 with 300/300 MB Internet included. I'm MUCH more satisfied watching sports with my TiVo.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

btwyx said:


> I'm firmly under the impression that the YouTube TV package includes regional sports networks (that's what RSN means?) It does include:
> NBC Sports Bay Area
> NBC Sports Bay Area Plus
> NBC Sports California
> ...


As I said above, for the most part, the only streaming cable TV option that includes RSNs is DirecTV Stream's Choice package. Yes, YTTV does carry the few RSNs that are owned by Comcast/NBCU, which include those that you listed. My guess is that those are tied in in their broader carriage contract for other NBCU networks. But YTTV does not carry any of those Bally Sports RSNs, which cover most of the country. Nor do they carry the few AT&T-owned RSNs. Don't think they carry any of the other single-market RSNs like NESN, MSG, or Marquee either.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

pl1 said:


> It is, BUT, they've jacked up their rates. They are charging $5-$6 RSN fees, even if you don't want the RSN, just like the cablecos do. So, min $70
> https://support.fubo.tv/hc/en-us/articles/360046050051-What-is-the-Regional-Sports-Fee- The other problem I had when I was with them is the DVR function. It was terrible, especially if you were chasing a game. I left before the RSN fees hit.


FuboTV carries RSNs in only a few select markets. No Bally Sports (formerly Fox Sports) RSNs, which is the biggie. Didn't realize that they were charging an additional RSN fee in those markets where they offer them, though.

https://support.fubo.tv/hc/en-us/ar...onal-Sports-Networks-are-available-on-fuboTV-


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> But YTTV does not carry any of those Bally Sports RSNs, which cover most of the country. Nor do they carry the few AT&T-owned RSNs. Don't think they carry any of the other single-market RSNs like NESN, MSG, or Marquee either.


I know they stopped carrying NESN.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> it's good for the contract term, and renews with a new contract, both new and existing customers, and can be added or removed online at any time, though it takes 1-2 months following addition for the discount to appear on the bill.


I'm currently on year 2 of a 2 year contract and have been autopaying via credit card for at least 10 years (and under a contract nearly as long). I've never seen an autopay credit on my bill.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

NorthAlabama said:


> my triple-play package, with pouplar tv (Limited Basic, Sports & News, Kids & Family, Entertainment, Streampix, HD Programming, 20 Hours of DVR Service), superfast internet (600/20), and voice, is $90 after contract, multiple svcs, and green/auto-pay discounts.
> 
> when you add broadcast, rsn's, equipment, and tax, it's another $40, but that's still the best deal i can find for all three around here, it's the reason i stay.


Yeah, that's not bad. Here in Nashville, looks like if you're a new customer signing up for those three services with a 2-yr contract and the full $10/mo paperless bank-draft autopay discount, the total after fees (not including any equipment rental or expanded DVR service) is $115.25 the first year, then $140.25 the second year, before rising to the regular ongoing price thereafter (currently $171.25). But I assume that once the contract lapses, you could sign up for another one and get some amount of discounts applied again.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

btwyx said:


> I hit the button to change the package. At that point it said to please send my 3 cable cards back to them.


As of about a year or 2 ago, the online system won't let you change packages if you have a cable card. It will try and force you to return them and rent a box. You have to speak to someone if you want to change a package. Likely because of the IPTV channels.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

morac said:


> I'm currently on year 2 of a 2 year contract and have been autopaying via credit card for at least 10 years (and under a contract nearly as long). I've never seen an autopay credit on my bill.


My parents were in a similar situation last year when I realized that they weren't getting the $10 paperless autopay discount applied. So I called up and inquired about it. Turns out that you can only get that discount applied if your account has been switched from the legacy billing system to the new Simple & Easy system. And, of course, Comcast being Comcast, they don't automatically do that. No, they expect customers to know about that and proactively request the changeover. I raised cain about it, so they offer an $8/mo discount for 12 months, in addition to switching the account over so that the $10 autopay discount was applied. After the $8 discount expired, we switched them over to AT&T Fiber, where they pay less for much better service and scored nearly $400 in cash back for signing up.

All that said, your situation may be different since you appear to be in the Northeast Division. Comcast does things somewhat differently up there and your area may not be on Simple & Easy or even offer an autopay discount.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

NashGuy said:


> ...I assume that once the contract lapses, you could sign up for another one and get some amount of discounts applied again.


i have done this every two years for almost 20 years, usually with retention, and they are well aware the first anniversary i call and it isn't honored, i'm gone - also, our promotion is good for the full term of the contract, it isn't tiered so it's more expensive the last 12 months.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> My parents were in a similar situation last year when I realized that they weren't getting the $10 paperless autopay discount applied. So I called up and inquired about it. Turns out that you can only get that discount applied if your account has been switched from the legacy billing system to the new Simple & Easy system.


Similar thing happened to me. I was on Comcast Digital Starter Internet only. They jacked up the price to $59 for 25/3MB (Or something similar about a year ago, maybe it was 50MB) Anyway, there was talk that it was only $49/mo with the autopay, yet, even if you setup autopay, it would not give you the discount without calling in. I called, to cancel!


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

morac said:


> As of about a year or 2 ago, the online system won't let you change packages if you have a cable card. It will try and force you to return them and rent a box. You have to speak to someone if you want to change a package. Likely because of the IPTV channels.


same here, and it gives them the opportunity to upsell - for a few years, in the manage account section, it even had a box stating my equipment was outdated, and to call for an "upgrade," but they finally removed the box.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> i have done this every two years for almost 20 years, usually with retention, and they are well aware the first anniversary i call and it isn't honored, i'm gone - also, our promotion is good for the full term of the contract, it isn't tiered so it's more expensive the last 12 months.


I was always told to call prior to my contract expiring and that worked well until this year. I called because Comcast raises rates once you hit year 2 of your contract. Retention couldn't find me a better rate than what I was on. They could get me a discounted rate on a higher tier, but I didn't want a higher tier.

Unfortunately at my address, it's Comcast or nothing, so they have me at least for Internet service and they know it.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

morac said:


> I was always told to call prior to my contract expiring and that worked well until this year. I called because Comcast raises rates once you hit year 2 of your contract. Retention couldn't find me a better rate than what I was on. They could get me a discounted rate on a higher tier, but I didn't want a higher tier.
> 
> Unfortunately at my address, it's Comcast or nothing, so they have me at least for Internet service and they know it.


that's why i referred to competition upthread, i realize our market is very competitive, both fiber optic and cable providers compete head to head, so we're in a much different position than most of the "exclusive" comcast markets (like it was in nashville and atlanta).


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

ATL is not exclusive now, AT&T Fiber is pretty much everywhere in the metro.

I've also been with Comcast for more than 20 years (when they bought out a local franchise) and have always gotten the new customer promo every 2 years. Have never had to threaten to leave, just pointed out the TV competition on the rare occasion that they were reluctant to give the discount.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

morac said:


> I was always told to call prior to my contract expiring and that worked well until this year. I called because Comcast raises rates once you hit year 2 of your contract. Retention couldn't find me a better rate than what I was on. They could get me a discounted rate on a higher tier, but I didn't want a higher tier.


This is what Spectrum Cable TV was doing to me, which finally drove me to YTTV. They wouldn't offer the same package I already had with a slight or no rate increase. But they would offer a larger package at a small additional rate increase. Which logically meant they **could** have offered a better deal on continuing my current package.


morac said:


> Unfortunately at my address, it's Comcast or nothing, so they have me at least for Internet service and they know it.


Spectrum internet was the only HSI in our area until this year. Metronet FTTH has built out here and is a better deal. I was paying Spectrum $75 for 100/10. Now I pay Metronet $60.66 (bottom line) for 200/200. I've had it for 9 mos now and it's reliable. When I went to turn in my Spectrum modem the agent offered me some really spectacular 3-year HSI deal, details of which I don't remember. (And it was too late anyway since Metronet was installed and working then.) I've never seen that deal in print even though I get frequent mailings from Spectrum.

Happily now I can tell Spectrum to "pound sand!". I will admit their HSI was quite reliable for me.

This illustrates the power of competition.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

NorthAlabama said:


> that's why i referred to competition upthread, i realize our market is very competitive, both fiber optic and cable providers compete head to head, so we're in a much different position than most of the "exclusive" comcast markets (like it was in nashville and atlanta).


We've had both AT&T Fiber and Google Fiber here in Nashville for a few years now. Got them around the same time as Huntsville, I think.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

NorthAlabama said:


> i have done this every two years for almost 20 years, usually with retention, and they are well aware the first anniversary i call and it isn't honored, i'm gone - also, our promotion is good for the full term of the contract, it isn't tiered so it's more expensive the last 12 months.


Sounds like the price they're giving you for the full length of your 2-yr renewal contract is pretty close to the second-year promo rate they give new subs here on a 2-yr contract. Which makes sense.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NorthAlabama said:


> on a side note related to new pricing, i noticed *the discount for paperless billing and auto-pay is dropping to $5, unless your auto-pay is from a checking account - then it's still $10*.





chiguy50 said:


> Good catch! That small change, effective as of Jan 1 next year, had escaped my attention. I guess I'll make the appropriate change to my Autopay settings; or, on second thought, *perhaps I'll wait a month to see whether they are grandfathering in pre-existing payment arrangements*.


Just as I had hoped, the Comcast changes effective Jan 1 regarding the Autopay and Paperless Billing discounts will NOT apply to existing arrangements according to what I have just been told. If you already had Autopay set up via a checking account credit or debit card then you will be grandfathered in for the full $10 discount. Otherwise, the discounts have now been bifurcated into two separate $5.00 discounts, one for Paperless Billing and the other for Autopay via ACH transfer from a checking account.

If your current billpay arrangement is interrupted or changed in any way (e.g., different credit card number), then you will be subject to the new rules.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

After my last post, where I got the cable cards added back to the account nothing happened for a week. Then I got something asking me to please confirm the changes, so I did. 

Then I got an email confirming the changes I'd confirmed, including deleting 3 cable cards from the account.

So I text chatted with Comcast support, and they added them back again, then the plan finally got changed over to the new one. So now I have the $75 dollar plan, which costs $120 dollars in total, for a savings of about $30/month. If it weren't for the fact that the TiVo still works (mostly), I'd change over to the YouTube plan, which really is $65/month.

I am getting the $10 discount for paperless billing, and autopay (via credit card).

Just to make life amusing, while I was checking that the cable cards still worked (they hadn't yet noticed they'd been deleted), I noticed our TiVo edge had fallen over (we never watch it) where TiVo service was "not available". I was also text chatting with TiVo support to fix that, while chatting with Comcast.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

chiguy50 said:


> Just as I had hoped, the Comcast changes effective Jan 1 regarding the Autopay and Paperless Billing discounts will NOT apply to existing arrangements according to what I have just been told. If you already had Autopay set up via a checking account then you will be grandfathered in for the full $10 discount. Otherwise, the discounts have now been bifurcated into two separate $5.00 discounts, one for Paperless Billing and the other for Autopay via ACH transfer from a checking account.
> 
> If your current billpay arrangement is interrupted or changed in any way (e.g., different credit card number), then you will be subject to the new rules.


which means it would have needed to be changed at contract renewel time in a few months, so i'm still glad i made the jump - as long as renewel goes as easily as in previous years, it's ready, and if i leave, it goes away entirely anyway (unlikely).


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

spiderpumpkin said:


> I recently added a third cablecard to my Comcast account, and all three are free each month. I have 2 Roamio Pros and a HD Homerun Prime.
> 
> Having the HDHR Prime on my home network works great and adds my cable channels to my Channels DVR setup.
> 
> Channels DVR TV Everywhere functionality has also allowed me to get a few of the IP only HD channels I like that cablecard can't get. Those being Sundance HD, FXM HD, AHC HD and Hallmark Drama.


I switched to HDHomeRun over the last couple of weeks. Since I don't watch as much broadcast content as I used to. With an HDHomeRun Prime and a Flex 4K. I've had my TiVo Bolts unplugged for over a week now(one was on FiOS and one on OTA) and I have not missed them at all. Although I still have a 3TB Roamio OTA connected.

Although I am using Plex DVR with my HDHomeRuns. It has been working very well for me. I have tons of storage (19TB) to use in the Plex machine I am using. Way more than I ever had with my TiVos. Although now that I don't watch as much recorded broadcast content, I really don't need a ton of storage any more. Most of the shows that I used to record I watch commercial free now from various streaming services.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NorthAlabama said:


> which means it would have needed to be changed at contract renewel time in a few months, so i'm still glad i made the jump - as long as renewel goes as easily as in previous years, it's ready, and if i leave, it goes away entirely anyway (unlikely).


Sorry, I misworded my original post. I have since corrected it as shown below.



chiguy50 said:


> Just as I had hoped, the Comcast changes effective Jan 1 regarding the Autopay and Paperless Billing discounts will NOT apply to existing arrangements according to what I have just been told. *If you already had Autopay set up via a checking account credit or debit card then you will be grandfathered in for the full $10 discount.* Otherwise, the discounts have now been bifurcated into two separate $5.00 discounts, one for Paperless Billing and the other for Autopay via ACH transfer from a checking account.
> 
> If your current billpay arrangement is interrupted or changed in any way (e.g., different credit card number), then you will be subject to the new rules.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

chiguy50 said:


> Sorry, I misworded my original post. I have since corrected it as shown below.


no prob, i read it correctly, still.


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## Tanic (Jun 22, 2004)

Cox just jacked up my single cable card to $6.50 per month in January. It was 2 bucks just a couple of years ago.


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## MrDell (Jul 8, 2012)

Tanic said:


> Cox just jacked up my single cable card to $6.50 per month in January. It was 2 bucks just a couple of years ago.


That is unbelievable!! Blatant price gauging! I have been paying $4.99 per month forever with Verizon which is ridiculous … hopefully Verizon won’t get more greedy and follow Cox!!


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

Tanic said:


> Cox just jacked up my single cable card to $6.50 per month in January. It was 2 bucks just a couple of years ago.


Just for reference, there is still no fee for CableCARDs provided by Comcast in most of their regions. But whether that represents relative value depends on overall pricing for services and equipment rendered.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

chiguy50 said:


> Just for reference, there is still no fee for CableCARDs provided by Comcast in most of their regions. But whether that represents relative value depends on overall pricing for services and equipment rendered.


I was paying extra for an additional card (extra outlet charge), but Comcast recently dropped that so I’m paying nothing for 2 cards.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

morac said:


> I was paying extra for an additional card (extra outlet charge), but Comcast recently dropped that so I’m paying nothing for 2 cards.


Does Comcast still charge an HD fee?


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

aaronwt said:


> Does Comcast still charge an HD fee?


only if you have their equipment, and are on a plan which doesn't include hd - with only cablecards, i've never paid it, and had it removed for a neighbor (she still received hd on tivo).

my current plan includes the hd fee if i were to switch to x1.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> Does Comcast still charge an HD fee?


Most plans appear to include it.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

morac said:


> I was paying extra for an additional card (extra outlet charge), but Comcast recently dropped that so I’m paying nothing for 2 cards.


That ADO charge is not a CableCARD fee. The rental fee was still $0; it just cost you extra to get service to the device in which it was installed. Tricky, no?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

chiguy50 said:


> That ADO charge is not a CableCARD fee. The rental fee was still $0; it just cost you extra to get service to the device in which it was installed. Tricky, no?


The fee was called “additional outlet cablecard”. It was changed to $0.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

morac said:


> Most plans appear to include it.


At least in our market w/the S&E plans, NONE of them charge extra for HD on those plans. But they still DO if you're on some older grandfathered plans... 



chiguy50 said:


> Just as I had hoped, the Comcast changes effective Jan 1 regarding the Autopay and Paperless Billing discounts will NOT apply to existing arrangements according to what I have just been told. If you already had Autopay set up via credit or debit card then you will be grandfathered in for the full $10 discount.
> If your current billpay arrangement is interrupted or changed in any way (e.g., different credit card number), then you will be subject to the new rules.


I just saw my new bill & I'm still getting the $10 discount...even though I DID change my CC almost 2 weeks before this new bill was generated.
But to my surprise, one of my promo discounts *increased* $3 - after trying to figure out why, it appears that they are crediting me the price hike on my 3 TV boxes...wasn't expecting that.
Keeping my eye on the next bill for these (same) discounts to remain...


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

dishrich said:


> But to my surprise, one of my promo discounts *increased* $3 - after trying to figure out why, it appears that they are crediting me the price hike on my 3 TV boxes...wasn't expecting that.
> Keeping my eye on the next bill for these (same) discounts to remain...


That is due to the increase in the retail price of the service vs. the set price in your service contract. For example, all of the internet speed tiers except for the top (Gigabit Pro/x3) went up by $3.00 as of January 1; if you had Extreme Pro/Ultrafast at a discounted $60 (retail formerly $106), your $46 discount would be increased to $49.


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## thoseeyes48 (12 mo ago)

Mine just went from $4 to $6. It's only $2, but it's a 50% increase.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

thoseeyes48 said:


> Mine just went from $4 to $6. It's only $2, but it's a 50% increase.


What zip code are you located in and what cable TV service tier do you have? Is it a bundle deal or single, stand-alone service?


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## MrDell (Jul 8, 2012)

thoseeyes48 said:


> Mine just went from $4 to $6. It's only $2, but it's a 50% increase.


Unfortunately this seems to be a trend that is going on lately according to some of the recent posts. Another way to extract more money from customers. No wonder so many people are fed up and cutting the cord!


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## thoseeyes48 (12 mo ago)

89052. I live in a building where "Cox TV Ultimate" is included, so the cable card is all I'm paying for. I suspect the idea is to push tivo users to switch to Cox's DVR, but I went "all in" when I bought my mine, so that's not happening any time soon.


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## djones18 (Jan 6, 2006)

Zip Code: 22315, Northern Virginia Cox. Two days ago went into store to pick up cablecard and tuning adapter for a Bolt I received. Price now $6.30 per month for cablecard and tuning adapter. That's a 20% increase from last year. Seems to go up here roughly 10-20% a year for these.

BTW, my customer service rep in store, who I've dealt with before, told me mine was first cablecard pickup he's seen in a couple years. This is a regional store. Indicative of decline of these devices in my region.


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

djones18 said:


> Zip Code: 22315, Northern Virginia Cox. Two days ago went into store to pick up cablecard and tuning adapter for a Bolt I received. Price now $6.30 per month for cablecard and tuning adapter. That's a 20% increase from last year. Seems to go up here roughly 10-20% a year for these.
> 
> BTW, my customer service rep in store, who I've dealt with before, told me mine was first cablecard pickup he's seen in a couple years. This is a regional store. Indicative of decline of these devices in my region.


Have you ever used the COX box that's identical to the Xfinity XG1V4? Contour 2 maybe?


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

WVZR1 said:


> Have you ever used the COX box that's identical to the Xfinity XG1V4? Contour 2 maybe?


Cox box? That sounds dirty.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

thoseeyes48 said:


> 89052. I live in a building where "Cox TV Ultimate" is included, so the cable card is all I'm paying for. I suspect the idea is to push tivo users to switch to Cox's DVR, but I went "all in" when I bought my mine, so that's not happening any time soon.


Tivo users are too small in number for them to care.

I’d say it’s less “push TiVo users to switch” but rather “stop supporting something that barely anyone uses”.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Comcast in CT is giving CC away at no cost, I needed one and they sent me two, I pay nothing for cable card use now, but my broadcast + ESPN fee is now $37 per month + tax, it the non controllable cost that killing cable, my basic service with 1.2G download speed, land line phone, HBO, and SHO is only $159, my bill is over $230 (I only rent their modem/router for $14 and get back $10 for using their cell service). I can see why people are changing to streaming only. I want to use TiVo as long as I can so I not changing. (By the way live ch. streaming has about a 1.5 min. delay,)


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I had a Comcast tech out for a signal issue I’ve been seeing lately and he legitimately asked me where I got my CCs from as he hadn’t seen one in years. 

Also I was talking to a line tech and they don’t even really bother looking at any of the TV QAM channels as the X1 boxes don’t use them. They just make sure the modem signals are good.

I had to point to him that the “balanced” signal when he was done had a SNR of 30 on one of the channels which was actually worse than when he started (it was 32).


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

lessd said:


> Comcast in CT is giving CC away at no cost, I needed one and they sent me two, I pay nothing for cable card use now, but my broadcast + ESPN fee is now $37 per month + tax, it the non controllable cost that killing cable, my basic service with 1.2G download speed, land line phone, HBO, and SHO is only $159, my bill is over $230 (I only rent their modem/router for $14 and get back $10 for using their cell service). I can see why people are changing to streaming only. I want to use TiVo as long as I can so I not changing. (By the way live ch. streaming has about a 1.5 min. delay,)


That end price of $230 seems high.

I signed up my sister in CA for the identical service bundle last November (in her region it was called Premier Triple Play). Their discounted service price is $135, the combined RSN and BTV fees are $34.05, and taxes and associated fees last month were $10.67 for a total of $177.22 (they also get the XM discount but have a $7.50 DVR rental fee). They are using their own modem, though.

Pricing and bundle offers differ by region, but you might want to contact a Comcast billing CSR to see whether you can get your bill lowered. Aside from the higher price you are paying ($159 vs. $135) for what appears to be the exact same service, there is at least a $15 discrepancy that should be accounted for (e.g., are you not getting the $10 Automatic Payments and Paperless Billing discount?).


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

cwoody222 said:


> …………. I’d say it’s less “push TiVo users to switch” but rather “stop supporting something that barely anyone uses”.


… and has always been a PITA to support anyway and is all cost and no benefit to us. The whole CableCARD/Tuning Adapter approach suffered from poor human engineering, i.e., forcing something on cable operators at great cost and with no reward, and grossly ineffective enforcement effort.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

dlfl said:


> … and has always been a PITA to support anyway and is all cost and no benefit to us. The whole CableCARD/Tuning Adapter approach suffered from poor human engineering, i.e., forcing something on cable operators at great cost and with no reward, and grossly ineffective enforcement effort.


Who is “us”? The consumer? I’d say there was a huge benefit for us, that being the choice to use DVR hardware of your choosing instead of being forced to rent your provider’s hardware.

There was not meant to be a reward for the cable provider, cablecard was about giving consumers more choice, even if at the expense of the provider.

The problem being was that consumers didn’t care. The vast majority of customers found the hardware supplied by their provider was “good enough” to not warrant the expense of purchasing their own hardware.
(A very strong argument could also be made that most consumer didn’t even know that cablecard was an option and they did have options other than what their provider shoved down their throat)

That made it an easy decision for providers to do the bare minimum for support/ease of use and give those tiny fraction of customers a ****ty experience.

(Kudos to the providers who actually did a decent job of implementing pain-free cablecard support, like Fios.)


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

cwoody222 said:


> Who is “us”? The consumer? I’d say there was a huge benefit for us, that being the choice to use DVR hardware of your choosing instead of being forced to rent your provider’s hardware.
> 
> There was not meant to be a reward for the cable provider, cablecard was about giving consumers more choice, even if at the expense of the provider.
> 
> ...


Kudos and $3,50 will get you a Starbucks coffee. The decision not to adequately support CableCARD and Tuning Adapter was made easy by there being no reward for doing so and little punishment for not doing so. If you’re going to impose something “not meant to be a reward for the cable provider, cablecard was about giving consumers more choice, even if at the expense of the provider” then you better be prepared to enforce it. You’ve got cause and effect reversed. TiVo’s only had 1% market penetration because of the poor support, not vice versa.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

But enforce what?

Every cable provider that was required to support cable card did - and still does.

Saying they didn’t make it “easy enough“ is very subjective.

Loud, vocal complaints on forums like this aside, the vast majority of TiVo/cable card users setup and used their cable cards relatively easily.

I’ve been vocal about how horrible my CC experience was with Spectrum/TWC but if I was a typical consumer I’d probably have never even noticed issues past the maybe slightly more difficult than normal setup.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

cwoody222 said:


> But enforce what?
> 
> Every cable provider that was required to support cable card did - and still does.
> 
> ...


We’ve been over this before in another thread but I question your assertion that the “vast majority of TiVo/cable card users setup and used their cable cards relatively easily”. I would like to see any statistics that support this, and there are a myriad of posts over 12+ years on this forum indicating otherwise. Such considerations should also encompass Tuning Adapters since many systems require their use to get all channels and it appears they have had much worse support issues than just CableCARDs, especially the much used STA1520 units.

As we discussed before, there may be some cable co regions that have provided good support, but regions can differ. In fairness I think we should agree that both our positions are subjective. My personal poor experience with one TWC/Spectrum region plus a huge number of forum posts is subjective, and your assertion about typical customer experiences is too. There is no objective data to settle it one way or the other.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

dlfl said:


> We’ve been over this before in another thread but I question your assertion that the “vast majority of TiVo/cable card users setup and used their cable cards relatively easily”. I would like to see any statistics that support this, and there are a myriad of posts over 12+ years on this forum indicating otherwise.


I think if you were to gather all the posts on TCF over the years you would find that the majority of Tivo users on TCF did not have problems, I know in 14 years and many physical and service moves I have never had an issue more serious than having to pair my CableCARDs taking 2 calls instead of 1. That's with Comcast, Verizon, and RCN


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

There was a period I went through lots of CC DVRs and tuners before I settled. Of those 20 or so pairings on Charter (now Spectrum), I only recall one that went what I would consider smoothly on the first attempt.

They would also remove the TA from my account or disable it at random times every few years for no apparent reason, requiring several phone calls and lots of detective work to get it back. So my success rate was quite low.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

btwyx said:


> I've already done the month's trial with a TiVo Stream 4k, and then paid for a month with a Chromecast with Google TV. I can get all the service I want, with better quality in a lot of cases, but it looses the TiVo interface, which is why I haven't dumped Comcast yet.


FWIW, I tried YYTV and ended up keeping our TiVo due to the better UI. As old as TiVo is, it's still got the best UI.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

bareyb said:


> FWIW, I tried YYTV and ended up keeping our TiVo due to the better UI. As old as TiVo is, it's still got the best UI.


As long as your only choices are OTA or Cable.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

zalusky said:


> As long as your only choices are OTA or Cable.


True. I use may Apple TV+ to track those and just pay for App ala carte.


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