# Tuner in Bolt+



## t1v0fan2004 (Oct 20, 2007)

I'm looking to replace my Premiere with a Bolt+, but after reading some of the reviews it sounds like it has a new design with a tuner that's significantly less tolerant of variations in cable strength than previous models. Is this true? The last thing I want is to end up in the middle of a finger pointing argument between Concast and Tivo.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

I cannot give you any technical reasons for it but I can tell you I have a Bolt, Roamio Basic and a Premiere all on the same antenna source. Roamio and Premiere generally do very well on all local channels.

The Bolt does not. 

In use, the Bolt has a significantly lower quality tuner. To the point that I need to keep onepasses on multiple units and transfer the show to catch the CBS shows that the Bolt screws up badly.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

jcthorne said:


> I cannot give you any technical reasons for it but I can tell you I have a Bolt, Roamio Basic and a Premiere all on the same antenna source. Roamio and Premiere generally do very well on all local channels.
> 
> The Bolt does not.
> 
> In use, the Bolt has a significantly lower quality tuner. To the point that I need to keep onepasses on multiple units and transfer the show to catch the CBS shows that the Bolt screws up badly.


The original poster is talking about cable not OTA. There have been some posts about the Bolt not being able to handle a "hot" cable signal very well. Of course there have been similar posts about various OTA issues, however OTA is highly variable site to site so there isn't much one can really say about ones own setup that is useful to someone else. As an example my experience with using Series 3, TIVo HD, Premiere, base Roamio, & Bolt for OTA off the same cable is that the Premiere is the worst and the Bolt is the best. Another example is my next door neighbor and I have issues with completely different channels, the ones I have the most issues with they get rock solid and the one I have the least issues with they almost always have problems with. Just the way OTA is.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

t1v0fan2004 said:


> I'm looking to replace my Premiere with a Bolt+, but after reading some of the reviews it sounds like it has a new design with a tuner that's significantly less tolerant of variations in cable strength than previous models. Is this true? The last thing I want is to end up in the middle of a finger pointing argument between Concast and Tivo.


What's the current signal level of your Premiere? Mine is usually 75 to 85. My Roamio strives (through AGC) to hit 90. An OTA box likes to sit on 72. Having a SNR of 36dB is great for any TiVo and every TiVo dislikes a signal that is too strong. Does your TV have a signal diagnostic? I have two clear QAM channels that have the same numbers as my Premiere.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

My understanding is that these signal level and SNR values are not calibrated across Tivo devices. So, comparing in that manner does not demonstrate the variances you may seen on the screen.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

atmuscarella said:


> The original poster is talking about cable not OTA. There have been some posts about the Bolt not being able to handle a "hot" cable signal very well. Of course there have been similar posts about various OTA issues, however OTA is highly variable site to site so there isn't much one can really say about ones own setup that is useful to someone else. As an example my experience with using Series 3, TIVo HD, Premiere, base Roamio, & Bolt for OTA off the same cable is that the Premiere is the worst and the Bolt is the best. Another example is my next door neighbor and I have issues with completely different channels, the ones I have the most issues with they get rock solid and the one I have the least issues with they almost always have problems with. Just the way OTA is.


Well I have the three units all receiving the exact same feed from the same antenna via the same powered splitter. Roamio and Premiere are neck and neck. The Bolt is not even close. Easily 25% of the recordings have issues. Mostly but not all on local channel 11-1 CBS. When I first got my Bolt I was having the issue and eventually one of the tuners failed. Tivo replaced the unit. Replacement has been running 'fine' for about a year now but continues with the poor recordings vs the other Tivo's in the house. Two bolts back to back in the same circumstance as the Roamio and Premiere having poor tuner performance.

If it were not for the much better Plex performance on the Bolt vs Roamio, I would buy one of the $200 Roamios with lifetime and drop the Bolt. I seriously considered not buying a second year of service on it. If the Roamio deal had been available in October when the renewal was due, I would not have spent $160 for a year of bolt service.

Guess my complaint is that it does not work as advertised. Poor guide data, poor tuner performance and poor economics. Bolt is not a good offering overall vs Roamio at this time.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

jcthorne said:


> Well I have the three units all receiving the exact same feed from the same antenna via the same powered splitter. Roamio and Premiere are neck and neck. The Bolt is not even close. Easily 25% of the recordings have issues. Mostly but not all on local channel 11-1 CBS. When I first got my Bolt I was having the issue and eventually one of the tuners failed. Tivo replaced the unit. Replacement has been running 'fine' for about a year now but continues with the poor recordings vs the other Tivo's in the house. Two bolts back to back in the same circumstance as the Roamio and Premiere having poor tuner performance.
> 
> If it were not for the much better Plex performance on the Bolt vs Roamio, I would buy one of the $200 Roamios with lifetime and drop the Bolt. I seriously considered not buying a second year of service on it. If the Roamio deal had been available in October when the renewal was due, I would not have spent $160 for a year of bolt service.
> 
> Guess my complaint is that it does not work as advertised. Poor guide data, poor tuner performance and poor economics. Bolt is not a good offering overall vs Roamio at this time.


If someone is looking for a OTA DVR I agree the Roamio OTA since TiVo started selling them with lifetime/all in included have been better values compared to the Bolt.

However the original poster isn't looking for an OTA DVR he wants a cable DVR and asked about the cable tuners in the Bolt+. Our shifting this thread to OTA tuners did nothing to help him get an answer.

Regarding the Bolt's OTA tuners. I also have my units on the exact same feed as you do with different results. In the end our individual results prove nothing other than what works best in our setups when comparing the specific units we own. To actually know the OTA tuners limitations and performance would require testing many units, under many types of conditions with equipment that I suspect neither of us have and a software update has the potential to change cable or OTA performance at any time.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

The OP came back on Sunday. No visits since then.


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## t1v0fan2004 (Oct 20, 2007)

JoeKustra said:


> What's the current signal level of your Premiere? Mine is usually 75 to 85. My Roamio strives (through AGC) to hit 90. An OTA box likes to sit on 72. Having a SNR of 36dB is great for any TiVo and every TiVo dislikes a signal that is too strong. Does your TV have a signal diagnostic? I have two clear QAM channels that have the same numbers as my Premiere.


I'm seeing about 85-95 with a SNR of 37dB. I don't have issues with PQ except for Comcast's 720p down conversion which seems to result in obvious compression artifacts.

The one star reviews on Amazon and the emails about needing five (!) cable cards worry me the most. The Roamio Plus is looking more attractive, but is it much slower than the Bolt?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

t1v0fan2004 said:


> I'm seeing about 85-95 with a SNR of 37dB. I don't have issues with PQ except for Comcast's 720p down conversion which seems to result in obvious compression artifacts.
> 
> The one star reviews on Amazon and the emails about needing five (!) cable cards worry me the most. The Roamio Plus is looking more attractive, but is it much slower than the Bolt?


That's a strong signal. Prepare to use some attenuation. There are many ways to do that, so don't lose any sleep. If you have a cable modem I would check its signals too. It they are too hot your headend may want to reduce your signal. Or you may be better doing it yourself. Comcast seems to have the most uneven cable card reviews. Some are great, some are nightmares. I would go for it, but I always take risks.

If PQ is your main concern, that 720p conversion is your largest problem. Nobody here can fix that, sorry.

The Bolt is faster than the Roamio. The Roamio is much faster than a Premiere. I have no complaints with the speed of my two Roamio boxes. I have two Premiere boxes used for storage. If the Bolt was a big leap in performance I would jump on it. I don't have 4k however.

Welcome back.


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