# accidentally told DTV that I don't have landline phone, now my acct is suspended :(



## Leila (Apr 28, 2006)

I had to call DirecTV this morning to activate/deactivate a replacement DirecTiVo.

During the call, I accidentlaly told the nice DirecTV rep that I no longer have a
landline phone in my house. As soon as I said it, I knew I should have said it.

After a minute or so, she told me that she had to put my account in suspension
unless I can physically hook up my DirecTiVo to a landline phone(or even a VOIP
line that works with the DirecTiVo) I only use a cell phone at home. My landline
phone has been disconnected for almost 5 years. Since my cell phone provides
me unlimited minutes 24/7, I had really no need for the landline in my house.

I asked to speak to a supervisor and he told me the same thing...  No phone
hook-up, no DirecTV. He looked at my records and saw that I had been a 
DirecTV customer for almost 7 years. That still didn't make any difference.

Help!!! Is there someone at DirecTV that I can talk to about this?


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Just call back and talk to another CSR, or Retention specialist


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

Yeah, tell them you just called and the cable company does not have that restriction.


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## Boston Fan (Feb 8, 2006)

That's weird. When I installed my latest DTivo, I told them it wasn't connected to a phone line, and they didn't seem to care. Activated it with no problem.


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## crxrocks (Mar 30, 2004)

It has been some time since I have activated a new receiver but it has never been a problem. Maybe it is because I just don't mention it.


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## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

Boston Fan said:


> That's weird. When I installed my latest DTivo, I told them it wasn't connected to a phone line, and they didn't seem to care. Activated it with no problem.


Remember some csr's sleep with the rulebook under the pillow others just want to get through another day and don't care about the stupid petty rules. ( the phone line is a SPR( My new abbreviation for Stupid Petty Rules) Every company has them some enforce them like their life depends upon it and some don't.

Haven't you ever been standing on a fire lane at the dept store waiting for that loved one to return six security rent-a-cops go by and the seventh makes you move. You are not blocking anyone or causing any problems (no screaming firetrucks approaching, but that one dumb as* has to make u move. Just another SPR. or a SFPR a Stupid Fu**ing Petty Rule.


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## dminches (Sep 29, 2001)

I assume the phone line rule is in place, in part, to prevent people from accessing out of town sports events that would otherwise be blacked out. If that is the case then it isn't s SPR, as you state. Cable and satellite feeds are completely different. The cable company knows exactly where you live. Satelitte companies would like to have the same information. Don't rip into them for trying to do what they are probably legally required to do.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

dminches said:


> I assume the phone line rule is in place, in part, to prevent people from accessing out of town sports events that would otherwise be blacked out. If that is the case then it isn't s SPR, as you state. Cable and satellite feeds are completely different. The cable company knows exactly where you live. Satelitte companies would like to have the same information. Don't rip into them for trying to do what they are probably legally required to do.


99% of those restrictions are done via ZIP Code logic, that is placed into the ACCESS card via the SAT stream.

The 1% exception is when it comes to taking the system that has some of the extended packages... and bringing it to a buddies house.


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## dminches (Sep 29, 2001)

What prevents someone from putting in a system in one city but telling Directv that it is located in another? I assumed that is prevented by having the system hooked up to a phone line.


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## TeeSee (Jan 16, 2003)

I'm not sure we should assume there's a law (or even a DirecTV rule) that a phone line is mandatory. I've never seen that written anywhere. I just looked through directv.com and the only reference to a phone line that I found (in an admittedly brief search) was that it needs to be hooked up "in order to get the full use of your DVR", or words to that effect.  

Anyway, couldn't the OP just call back and say they now have a phone line plugged in, even if they don't?


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Re-Read any of the user agreements / contracts for DirecTV.

The phone line requirement has been there since day one.


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## stivovance (Feb 12, 2003)

TeeSee said:


> I'm not sure we should assume there's a law (or even a DirecTV rule) that a phone line is mandatory. I've never seen that written anywhere. I just looked through directv.com and the only reference to a phone line that I found (in an admittedly brief search) was that it needs to be hooked up "in order to get the full use of your DVR", or words to that effect.
> 
> Anyway, couldn't the OP just call back and say they now have a phone line plugged in, even if they don't?


Yep, they could do that. When my parents got their install, I was there to oversee it and the installer plugged one end of the phoneline into the back of the dvr's (the other end was still tied up w/ the twist tie) and said, all set, it says it has to be plugged into a phoneline, says nothing about the phone line having to be plugged into the wall, to this day when I activate a receiver, get a little chuckle thinking about that.

Just call them back and tell them it's now hooked up, don't believe there is any way they can test it from right there.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

dminches said:


> I assume the phone line rule is in place, in part, to prevent people from accessing out of town sports events that would otherwise be blacked out. If that is the case then it isn't s SPR, as you state.
> 
> What prevents someone from putting in a system in one city but telling Directv that it is located in another? I assumed that is prevented by having the system hooked up to a phone line.


You assumed wrong - they do NOT do ANY kind of area code/city cross-reference, as you are suggesting. I (& many others that I know) DO have phone lines & we live a couple HUNDRED miles from where we are "supposed" to be...   (& I "moved" over 5 years ago) All of us get our local RSN's &/or sport packages just fine as well.

I'll even take it a step further - my phone# that I have listed on my account (which is my cell#) is obviously NOT even the same phone# that my units are calling in from. (my landline) Never have I had a problem with this, either.

-------------------------------------------------

To the OP - unfortunately, it is true that D*'s policy of a MANDITORY phone line seems to be only really enforced when subs have D* Tivo's, because they need a phone line to get software updates. (which is true, since they have to make an activation calls to get installed) But, since D* will most likely NOT be making any more updated to these things (except for the recent one to the series 1 boxes) it really is a moot point. I have several D-Tivo clients w/out phone lines & they do NOT have problems with their DVR's, nor has D* cut them off. Bottom line - keep your mouth shut about not having a phone line & all will be well.


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

The way I understand it, the need for a phoneline is as follows.
All Receivers and DVRs need a phoneline to report remote control purchased PPVs that are temporarily stored on the cards.
All DirecTiVos needed a phone line to report viewing statistics (anonymously, like the Standalone TiVos) to TiVo and to trigger upgrades downloaded over the phone line or satellite feed.
And in the case of accounts that have special packages, as listed below, I believe it is actually used to verify access rights.
All professional and college sports subscriptions, such as NFL SUNDAY TICKET, NBA LEAGUE PASS, MLB EXTRA INNINGS, and NHL® CENTER ICE®, or local regional sports network, if you subscribe to a TOTAL CHOICE® package or the SPORTS Pack.

Otherwise, I really don't believe that DirecTV cares, because these are the restrictions that are placed on long haul truckers and RV owners. They can't have a sports subscription, place PPV orders via remote control (not sure how DirecTV controls this restriction (I would bet it is a Gentleman's agreement)), or access to a local regional sports network.

See Programming for RVs and Commercial Trucks.

I would assume that DirecTV might unsuspend your account if you agreed to have PPV blocked, access to your local regional sport network blocked, and had all of the sport subscriptions blocked.

And Earl is right the requirement to have a phone line has been around since 1994 when I signed up.

Anyone else have any further information?


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## Dkerr24 (Oct 29, 2004)

As long as you use the Directv website to order your PPV's, there really is no need for a landline once you've completed the initial setup call.


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## whalerfan (Nov 9, 2004)

I recently had to replace the hard drive on my DVR 40. After doing so I had to make the initial call again to DTV to get the unit to perform as it should. This being said. Having Vonage I have not been able to make a call in over 550 days. I activated my receiver and brought the unit to my brothers house and made it's call. Now it works fine. However, I was unsure if I had to call the DTV Tivo center with the unit. I called DTV and asked the question. The CSR gave me the speil on using the remote etc. I told her that I have Vonage and cannot make the call. When she started up on PPV I told her that I order over the internet anyway. She then told me that I didn't need to make the call anyways because everything comes over the satellite. When I got home I checked my software version and noticed I had been upgraded to 6.2.


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## dscott72 (Mar 30, 2006)

I have a generation 1 receiver that I hardly ever dial out. There is no point to be honest since the unit that I have won't upgrade past the current version. I have vonage as well and with the unit that is directly connected to it I have no problems, but when I use the smae settings on the one downstairs it never connects. I used to bring it to work to me (since I work for a cable co. and have access to a TV) and connect just to stop w/ the annoying messages every morning, but haven't done that as of late.


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## Giorgio (Aug 4, 2003)

Dkerr24 said:


> As long as you use the Directv website to order your PPV's, there really is no need for a landline once you've completed the initial setup call.[/QUOTE
> 
> It is really only a set-up call and only really for Tivo regular boxes do not need phone line.
> I know because I have had both
> ...


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

ebonovic said:


> Re-Read any of the user agreements / contracts for DirecTV.
> 
> The phone line requirement has been there since day one.


I agree it's always been there, i read fine print.

Howeeeever, if directv truly wanted to enforce it, they would turn off every receiver that hasn't called in in X days. Definitely easily technologically possible. So i submit DTV doesn't take the phone line thing seriously and that they shouldn't have turned that guy off. Also with all the folks on here posting X days without a line, it's obviously done a decent amount.

Also, i 'thought' the new dtv dvrs didn't even need a line..legally. I know whenever i had my B65 on, i never every had it hooked up to a phone line and it worked just fine. So i imagine most standalones dont need one either.


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## satmaster (Sep 11, 2004)

Leila said:


> I had to call DirecTV this morning to activate/deactivate a replacement DirecTiVo.
> 
> During the call, I accidentlaly told the nice DirecTV rep that I no longer have a
> landline phone in my house. As soon as I said it, I knew I should have said it.


Yes thats the rules. You must have a phone line to use the Tivo because they can not upgrade the software by the sat. It only makes a call about once a week.

Installers are told to refuse Tivo installs if no phone line exists you should have been told that it was required when you signed up.

You might be able to find a cell phone to hard line adapter that would work with it. But otherwise you do need a phone line.


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## satmaster (Sep 11, 2004)

newsposter said:


> I agree it's always been there, i read fine print.
> 
> Also, i 'thought' the new dtv dvrs didn't even need a line..legally. I know whenever i had my B65 on, i never every had it hooked up to a phone line and it worked just fine. So i imagine most standalones dont need one either.


I think I am correct the new DirecTVs are not Tivos. They don't run Tivo software.

The tivos can not download software upgrades without a phone line. 
They do get guide data from the sat. So altho they will work DirecTv can not access and upgrade the software.
DirecTv won't let you have one installed if you don't have a phone line. Unless the installer didn't follow the rules.

Its not clear why DTV doesn't shut off Tivos that are not reporting. Most likely it generates a red flag on your account so next time you call in they will ask you about the phone line.
It was my understanding that it should generate a onscreen message asking to be plugged in.


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## OLdDog (Dec 15, 2001)

The phone line is NOT required for any software updates at all. The updates happen by SAT and the activation happens when the DTiVo connects to the internet in any manner.

The connection can be by phone or it can be through a usb adapter to an eythernet connection to the internet (Hacked DTiVos only) or it can be through PPP over serial to the internet via a computer connected to the internet.

DTV does not care at all how that connection is made but they only support the phone connection. That is you get no help for any other method.

As far as the requirement. DTV knows I have no land line (going on 4 years since I cut the cord) and I have the MLS package and they have never given me any grief except that I have to order PPV through the internet which is how I would order it anyway aas that way I get the order on all my TiVos while ordering by remote gives the order only on the DTiVo it was ordered on.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Just call back and tell them you have a phone line now, and if they tell you to test a dial-out, just say you did it.

If they encourage you to lie, it's their problem.


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

OLdDog said:


> As far as the requirement. DTV knows I have no land line (going on 4 years since I cut the cord) and I have the MLS package and they have never given me any grief except that I have to order PPV through the internet which is how I would order it anyway aas that way I get the order on all my TiVos while ordering by remote gives the order only on the DTiVo it was ordered on.


It is very likely that DirecTV wasn't paying attention when you signed up for the MLS subscription. I know that they don't and really can't monitor all of the phone traffic, so if your account is not flagged as not having a phone connection then it isn't caught. The same can be said for PPV purchases made by remote control without a phone connection, DirecTV has no record of those purchases and will never bill you for them, but then again you are limited to the number of purchases that the card can hold without dumping the information back to DirecTV.

There are limits in the capability of DirecTV to enforce their own rules.

I would bet that if you called them and said that you had an MLS subscription and no phone line, that you would soon find that your MLS subscription was suspended or disconnected. But unless you call them and tell them that you don't have a phone connection, DirecTV is likely never going to know that you don't have a phone connection.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

I'd have to think, somewhere in their database, it shows whether a receiver has dialed in or not. Not sure how handy it is but with the ability to track stuff these days, i'd find it hard to believe it doesn't exist in a log somewhere.


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## Boston Fan (Feb 8, 2006)

OLdDog said:


> The phone line is NOT required for any software updates at all. The updates happen by SAT and the activation happens when the DTiVo connects to the internet in any manner.


True for the D* DVR (R15), not true for DirecTivo.


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## OLdDog (Dec 15, 2001)

Boston Fan said:


> True for the D* DVR (R15), not true for DirecTivo.


You REALLY need to check your facts!! The DTiVo has for the last 2 years at least received the software updates through the SAT feed and a phone call, or other connection to the internet, was required to activate them.

The R15s do NOT even need a phone connection for that, I believe, but I do not have an R15 so I cannot be sure.

As far as cutting off the MLS for not having a phone I am absolutly sure that they "can" and I am absolutly sure they will not as three different retention reps over the last three months have commented on the lack of phone connections for my DTiVos and each has said that there is no problem with that.

It could relate to being with DTV since the USSB period but I kind of doubt that I am that special.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

At this point, a Dtivo running 3.x downloads new software (6.2) via a phone line. Satellite download only occurs when an update is fairly new. 6.2 has been coming via phone download only for several months now.

In either case, a phone call is required to activate the download. Any "other connection to the internet" would involve a hacked box, and is beyond the scope of this thread.

You are the one who needs to check your facts.


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

newsposter said:


> I'd have to think, somewhere in their database, it shows whether a receiver has dialed in or not. Not sure how handy it is but with the ability to track stuff these days, i'd find it hard to believe it doesn't exist in a log somewhere.


If that was the case, then they don't pay very good attention to the phone call information.

My DirecTiVos only called until they upgraded to 6.2 (HDVR2s for a month or two, DVR80s for a week) and I can count the total number of months that all of them have called in the last THREE YEARS on one hand. My receivers haven't been connected for almost seven years.

I would say that DirecTV doesn't keep track of phone call information on all 15 million subscribers or they really don't care unless you have a sports subscription.


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

OLdDog said:


> You REALLY need to check your facts!! The DTiVo has for the last 2 years at least received the software updates through the SAT feed and a phone call, or other connection to the internet, was required to activate them.


Not TRUE, Arcady and to a degree Boston Fan are correct. They do have their facts correct.

In fact until the 6.2 upgrade all upgrades where downloaded via a phone call, the initial release of 6.2 was the first upgrade that downloaded via satellite, but it appears that it is no longer being offered as a satellite download, just via a phone call.

My brand new SD-DVR80s downloaded the 6.2 upgrade via a phone call that took almost an hour in January and February of this year. My older HDVR2s downloaded 6.2 upgrade right after it was launched via a satellite download and a phone call activation.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Boston Fan said:


> True for the D* DVR (R15), not true for DirecTivo.


well if their new receiver doesn't require the phone line, they sure have told us their true feelings about phone lines being mandatory. The EASILY could make every single box turn off if it hasn't called in in X days. but they wont. So that shows us they really dont care and dont take it seriously. You gotta follow their actions, not their words. I've done that at work and it's been very amenable to good relations.


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## Boston Fan (Feb 8, 2006)

OLdDog said:


> You REALLY need to check your facts!!


Well, one of us needs to check our facts  - and since my information is correct (not to mention sitting through the phone downloads to get 6.2 on my refurb a couple of months ago), I guess that would mean...


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## Boston Fan (Feb 8, 2006)

newsposter said:


> well if their new receiver doesn't require the phone line, they sure have told us their true feelings about phone lines being mandatory. The EASILY could make every single box turn off if it hasn't called in in X days. but they wont. So that shows us they really dont care and dont take it seriously. You gotta follow their actions, not their words. I've done that at work and it's been very amenable to good relations.


The *one* feature I really like about the R15 over D*Tivo is that the software updates come in over the sat rather than the phone line.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

tbeckner said:


> Not TRUE, Arcady and to a degree Boston Fan are correct. They do have their facts correct.
> 
> In fact until the 6.2 upgrade all upgrades where downloaded via a phone call, the initial release of 6.2 was the first upgrade that downloaded via satellie...


The whole 3.1.x series including 3.1.0, 3.1.0c, and 3.1.0c2 where originally on the satellite stream. 6.2 was not the first. Even if it is on the satellite stream it can still download it over the phone. It only depends if it is cached to the disk.


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## katbug (Oct 3, 2003)

satmaster said:


> You might be able to find a cell phone to hard line adapter that would work with it. But otherwise you do need a phone line.


Let's say "hypothetically" that you live in an area that doesn't even have landlines as an option and all phone access is cell...and that you "hypothetically" looked into a cell/landline adapter and it cost $700 that you really don't have any other need for. Hypothetically, I'll keep my mouth shut about not having access to a landline 'cuz I would be lost without Tivo.

I think DTV would lose a lot of hypothetical customers if they enforced the "land line" rule.


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## whalerfan (Nov 9, 2004)

This is kind of odd. I haven't had a phone line since November 2004. When my DVR 40's hard drive died (along with my favorite movie Eurotrip) I was running 3.1. I replaced the hard drive last week, made the phone call to DTV for initial setup and next thing I knew, I was running 6.2. This upgrade had to have come over the satellite and activated by the phone call.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

whalerfan said:


> This is kind of odd. I haven't had a phone line since November 2004. When my DVR 40's hard drive died (along with my favorite movie Eurotrip) I was running 3.1. I replaced the hard drive last week, made the phone call to DTV for initial setup and next thing I knew, I was running 6.2. This upgrade had to have come over the satellite and activated by the phone call.


What did you use to restore the hard drive? It's a lot more likely the image you used was either 6.2, or had 6.2 slices on it already.


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## whalerfan (Nov 9, 2004)

I replaced the drive with an 80 gig drive. I suspect the upgrade may have been in ram or perhaps on the new drive.


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

rminsk said:


> The whole 3.1.x series including 3.1.0, 3.1.0c, and 3.1.0c2 where originally on the satellite stream. 6.2 was not the first. Even if it is on the satellite stream it can still download it over the phone. It only depends if it is cached to the disk.


I am not saying that the 3.1.X series was not offered via satellite, but if I remember those updates where very small in size so it may not have been apparent which way those updates downloaded. Although I do remember asking questions on this forum before 6.2 was released why DirecTV didnt use the satellite to download updates and was told that 6.2 would be the first MAJOR release that would be available for download by satellite. Not using the satellite to download major releases, especially sizeable releases (both in the number of and size of) seemed very archaic to me.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

whalerfan said:


> I replaced the drive with an 80 gig drive. I suspect the upgrade may have been in ram or perhaps on the new drive.


No such thing as "in RAM".

My question was, how did you restore the 80GB drive? You needed to restore some sort of image to it. What image did you use?


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

tbeckner said:


> I am not saying that the 3.1.X series was not offered via satellite, but if I remember those updates where very small in size so it may not have been apparent which way those updates downloaded. Although I do remember asking questions on this forum before 6.2 was released why DirecTV didnt use the satellite to download updates and was told that 6.2 would be the first MAJOR release that would be available for download by satellite. Not using the satellite to download major releases, especially sizeable releases (both in the number of and size of) seemed very archaic to me.


They were all about the same size, pretty much the whole OS if I recall. And all sent down via satellite. This includes all the "letter" releases for the HD Tivo.

6.2 is not the first, but the last in a long chain of releases sent down via satellite. (Actually, 3.5 is the last, I suppose.)


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## whalerfan (Nov 9, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> No such thing as "in RAM".
> 
> My question was, how did you restore the 80GB drive? You needed to restore some sort of image to it. What image did you use?


As I said I _replaced_ not restored the hard drive. $119 from Weaknees. When I powered it up and made the initial call I noticed that I now had v 6.2. I haven't made the call to D* since November of 2004. If there's no RAM that's fine. Perhaps the hard drive was formatted with 6.2 on it.

Go Sabres Go!


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

tbeckner said:


> I am not saying that the 3.1.X series was not offered via satellite, but if I remember those updates where very small in size so it may not have been apparent which way those updates downloaded.


They were about the same size as the 6.2 release...


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## Leila (Apr 28, 2006)

update on my situation... (not good news, I'm afraid) 

I spoke to a couple more people at DirecTV's retention department. They were
unable to get my acct out of supsension until I can prove to them that my 
DirecTiVo DVRs are connected to a phoneline. They were sympathetic to the
fact that I have been with DirecTV for a LONG, LONG time... Every bill since day one
has been paid on-time via direct credit card billing, etc.... 

However, they told me they have recently been instructed not to allow activation
unless customer or installer can confirm phoneline connection. *(while they
didn't say it directly, I got the hint that they are having problems with 
customers who don't pay for their Pay-Per-View charges...)*

My only solution now is to get a VOIP line or ask my local landline phone company
to set up the line again.

Stay tuned....


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

Wow this is going to be a big wake up call (sorry for the pun) for A LOT of D* users.


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## hyde76 (Jan 7, 2003)

Bring it to a neighbor's house with a landline and let the thing dial in. confirm with D* that it dialed in and then you are done and back in business.


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## Giorgio (Aug 4, 2003)

Leila said:


> update on my situation... (not good news, I'm afraid)
> 
> I spoke to a couple more people at DirecTV's retention department. They were
> unable to get my acct out of supsension until I can prove to them that my
> ...


 Are u sure they don't have u on a special list this sounds like a lot of DRAMA I hope u have cancelled your auto pay card..
Re- subscribe and see if that works!!!

As a new customer


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## Balzzer (May 9, 2005)

They can trigger a call back to test the modem, to see if it clicks on the line while they are doing other troubleshooting. There is also a field on the access card screen that show that last date, time and phone number the box called from. I use to work at one of the call centers. They can also flag the PPV for internet or remote or none on all rv and trucks it was set to internet only


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## skaeight (Jan 20, 2004)

I would call retention and request to have remote PPV ordering turned off and see if that will allow them to turn your account back on. If their concern is PPV then tell them you want it disabled. At that point, if they won't turn you back on, I'd say, "well thank you kindly, cable doesn't require me to have a phone line," mutter something about the DT/series 3 TiVos and say you would like to cancel your account. 

However, I'm pretty sure remote PPV would have already been disabled if you haven't had a phone line for an extended period of time. I'm pretty sure I remember hearing that after around 90 days without a call in it's automatically disabled.

I really hope that this isn't the start of D* enforcing the phone line requirement. Maybe you just got a new CSR who lives and dies by the rule book. The problem is there are more and more people in your situation, who don't have phonelines. There is no reason you should have to pay for a phoneline just to let your d* receivers call in.


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## mikehome (Oct 16, 2005)

Yea... I haven't had my hooked up for a year....sure I can't order PPV's with the remote, but no biggie.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

whalerfan said:


> As I said I _replaced_ not restored the hard drive. $119 from Weaknees. When I powered it up and made the initial call I noticed that I now had v 6.2. I haven't made the call to D* since November of 2004. If there's no RAM that's fine. Perhaps the hard drive was formatted with 6.2 on it.
> 
> Go Sabres Go!


The point is, you can't just _replace_ a hard drive, you need to _restore_ a Tivo image to it.

You finally answered that WekNees restored the image for you. Which means, they sent you a drive with 6.2 already on it. There was no upgrade, because it was already running 6.2.

Got it?


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## MisterEd (Jun 6, 2001)

If that's the case, how do you explain the hundreds of thousands of non-dvr's that don't require a phone line?


dminches said:


> I assume the phone line rule is in place, in part, to prevent people from accessing out of town sports events that would otherwise be blacked out. If that is the case then it isn't s SPR, as you state. Cable and satellite feeds are completely different. The cable company knows exactly where you live. Satelitte companies would like to have the same information. Don't rip into them for trying to do what they are probably legally required to do.


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## jennifer (Dec 2, 2001)

http://www.techdirt.com/article.php?sid=20060502/2248208&cid=367

I came across this article recently. Interesting...

DirecTV Install Techs Claim They Were Forced To Lie To Customers
from the what-a-nice-company dept
While so much attention is paid to the recording industry for its sleazy practices, it's surprising that DirecTV doesn't get more attention for its practices. You may recall a few years ago when they (before the RIAA figured out a similar scheme) sent around letters to anyone they suspected of using a smartcard reader (they got a list of buyers) demanding $3,500 or promising a lawsuit -- even if there was no evidence that the smartcard reader was used to illegally access DirecTV signals. It was a similar plan to the RIAA, where they made it clear that it was much cheaper to just pay up, rather than go to court and prove your innocence (even if you were innocent). Eventually, the company was forced to stop the program, as a court found obvious problems with the practice. Just a few months ago, though, we noted that the company was being fined for two different violations. First, they were telemarketing to people on the Do Not Call list. Second, they were fined for their advertising, which didn't make clear certain blackout info and (of course) additional unexpected fees that subscribers would get.

The latest news story represents even more fun for the company. Apparently, a group of DirecTV technicians in Florida (who work for an outside contractor) have blown the whistle on the fact that the company set up incentives that forced them to lie to customers, in order to get people to hook their telephone lines up to the DirecTV boxes. Technicians were told to tell users that it was required, or the device wouldn't work -- even though that's false. In order to enforce this, the company would fine installers any time a box was set up without a phone line connected. Unfortunately, the article isn't entirely clear whether it's the contracting firm or DirecTV who was directly responsible for the fines or the directives to lie to customers. DirecTV was contacted by the reporter doing the story, and they made it clear they plan to continue the practice of pushing installers to hook up phone lines, because users who do so are more likely to order fee-based content and can be more easily tracked by DirecTV. It's easy to see why DirecTV would want this -- and they could obviously turn around and say it wasn't about "fining" the installers, but simply paying them extra if they hooked up a phone line -- but, the fact that installers were encouraged to lie to customers and "do whatever it takes" to get phone lines hooked up is a problem. Especially from a consumer standpoint, it doesn't make DirecTV look very trustworthy -- even if the ultimate fault is with the contractor.


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## Boston Fan (Feb 8, 2006)

Leila said:


> They were unable to get my acct out of supsension until I can prove to them that my DirecTiVo DVRs are connected to a phoneline.


What did they say would represent adequte proof?


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

rminsk said:


> They were about the same size as the 6.2 release...


Really? 

Based upon the number of changes in 6.2 compared to the 3.1.X releases, I would have guessed that the 3.1.X releases were less than half the size of the 6.2 upgrade. I guess I will have go go back and check the archives?

While I am in the archives I'll check out the official change over to satellite delivery for DirecTiVios. Sometimes my memory is not as good as the written word. (posts)

If I was Leila, if Leila is not committing fraud or doing something that is harmful to the company or their content suppliers, Leila should call DirecTV Customer Service and have them set the account to no remote control PPV and tell them that they have a phone line connection. And when they are on the phone and attempt to verify I would just tell them that the receiver or DVR is connected to another phone line.

Does DirecTV realize how many people use a Cell phone or a VOIP phone as their main telephone? And that number is rising every day!


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

tbeckner said:


> Based upon the number of changes in 6.2 compared to the 3.1.X releases, I would have guessed that the 3.1.X releases were less than half the size of the 6.2 upgrade. I guess I will have go go back and check the archives?


Tivo does not install differences on an upgrade, it install the complete application and OS for each softare version.


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## beanpoppa (Jan 7, 2004)

Although they added a lot of features, the actual Tivo application is still relatively small. Every time they upgrade, the Tivo downloads a whole new copy of it's Linux operating system- (kernel and associated apps). Even if the MRV/HMO code doubled the size of the 'Tivo' application (tivpapp) it's only 1.8MB now.



tbeckner said:


> Really?
> 
> Based upon the number of changes in 6.2 compared to the 3.1.X releases, I would have guessed that the 3.1.X releases were less than half the size of the 6.2 upgrade. I guess I will have go go back and check the archives?


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## bonesnake17 (May 24, 2006)

Can someone answer this question!!! I have had my directv Tivo for about year and a half. I have never had a phone line hooked up to it and it worked fine. Now I have to order PPV over the internet, but I would do that anyways. Well here is the question about a week ago it just freaks out on me and says it needs to be connect to a phone line for three hours. I took it over to my friends house with a phone line, but it is just frozen at the power up stage? Do I need to buy a new one? Can I get the upgrades through the satelite now? PLEASE HELP!!!!


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## 7out (Apr 26, 2006)

This was my experience, I'm new to the Dtvio Hacking. I bought a SD DVR40 off ebay. ( I have the same dvr40 non hacked, so I have the service )
Set it up in our computer room, put my card from a Huges Receiver in the DVR, got all the card and receiver info. Called DTV told the lady I was replacing a receiver. She ask me if I had a phone line connected to it, I said not yet, she ask me to see if I had a picture on 100,
which I did, then she ask me to turn it to a local channel. No locals, so she sent some info over sat, got it all working and said nothing else about the phone line. Then! when I started playing with it as soon as I hit the Record button it would not record unitll I hooked it to the phone line a set it up and made a call.
After that I did the hack (Ptv/Instantcake) 6.2 with 250 Gig Hd, hooked it back up, and it worked fine, except the locals did not show up for hours. Has not had a phone line hooked back to it.


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## goony (Nov 20, 2003)

You can always force your missing locals by dialing the 800 number for DirecTV and entering a specific extension (721) and it will re-auth the locals within 60 seconds or so.


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

beanpoppa said:


> Although they added a lot of features, the actual Tivo application is still relatively small. Every time they upgrade, the Tivo downloads a whole new copy of it's Linux operating system- (kernel and associated apps). Even if the MRV/HMO code doubled the size of the 'Tivo' application (tivpapp) it's only 1.8MB now.


Have you actually checked the size of TIVOAPP in the TVBIN directory? It's 17.2MB on all five of my machines and that is it's pre-patched normal size in version 6.2 and TIVOAPP is dated 2/24/2005 at 12:00AM, like most of the supporting files in the TVBIN directory.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

bonesnake17 said:


> Well here is the question about a week ago it just freaks out on me and says it needs to be connect to a phone line for three hours. I took it over to my friends house with a phone line, but it is just frozen at the power up stage?
> PLEASE HELP!!!!


Maybe someone who keeps up with this more than I do can comment further, but here is a possibility ...

Various TiVos (not sure about yours) can decide that certain system files have become corrupted on disk. These TiVos can then make a phone call and download repaired versions of those files. Maybe something like that is happening to you.


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## Giorgio (Aug 4, 2003)

Giorgio said:


> Are u sure they don't have u on a special list this sounds like a lot of DRAMA I hope u have cancelled your auto pay card..
> Re- subscribe and see if that works!!!
> 
> As a new customer


5/24/06

Talked to a senior CSR today..
Told her Tivo would not dial in..
She said are u getting programming okay? I said yes..she said do u want tech support.. I said no..she said don't worry about it!!
I don't know who u guys are talking too this is the conversation u should have also..
Good Luck


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## satmaster (Sep 11, 2004)

OLdDog said:


> The phone line is NOT required for any software updates at all. The updates happen by SAT and the activation happens when the DTiVo connects to the internet in any manner.


Thats now what I have seen when I installed them. They download for 1 hr and when the reboot they install the software.

However you are all forgetting that Tivo monitors what we watch and sells this data. So the Tivo system requires a phone line to report what we are watching and which season passes we are using.

This is all part of the Tivo agrement and is required to keep your subscription.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

satmaster said:


> Thats now what I have seen when I installed them. They download for 1 hr and when the reboot they install the software.
> 
> However you are all forgetting that Tivo monitors what we watch and sells this data. So the Tivo system requires a phone line to report what we are watching and which season passes we are using.
> 
> This is all part of the Tivo agrement and is required to keep your subscription.


No it's not required, not for DirecTV Tivo's.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

satmaster said:


> Thats now what I have seen when I installed them. They download for 1 hr and when the reboot they install the software.
> 
> However you are all forgetting that Tivo monitors what we watch and sells this data. So the Tivo system requires a phone line to report what we are watching and which season passes we are using.
> 
> This is all part of the Tivo agrement and is required to keep your subscription.


As AB said, not for D* boxes. The agreement is with DirecTV, NOT TiVo. As I keep reminding people, the HR10 is NOT a TiVo. It's a D* receiver/DVR with TiVo service and, as such, is sold and maintained by D*.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

satmaster said:


> However you are all forgetting that Tivo monitors what we watch and sells this data. So the Tivo system requires a phone line to report what we are watching and which season passes we are using.
> 
> This is all part of the Tivo agrement and is required to keep your subscription.


Anonymous viewing data can be opted out of. Opting out is from the same service agreement.


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## Giorgio (Aug 4, 2003)

Guindalf said:


> As AB said, not for D* boxes. The agreement is with DirecTV, NOT TiVo. As I keep reminding people, the HR10 is NOT a TiVo. It's a D* receiver/DVR with TiVo service and, as such, is sold and maintained by D*.


 Thank The Tivo "Gods" for that

So I hope now this will just go away...lol


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## SnakeEyes (Dec 26, 2000)

I just hooked up my brothers DTivo last week, bought it from a friend that had it in a closet for quite a while. Installer repeatedly told me I need a landline. I said we don't have one and are not getting one, welcome to 2006. Told the CSR that as well and that we would cancel our new sub if we couldn't use a TiVo and that their generic DVR would not do. 

I also told her the non-DVR HD D* receiver was hooked up two weeks before with no phone line either. She said she'd have to turn off remote PPV ordering and that after a month a nag screen on the TiVo would show up once a day. I told her I was aware of that. The tech installed it and that was that. Because it had already been setup once I didn't have to go through guided setup while he was there.

I did have to run the box to my box place and hook it up to a phone line to get the 6.2 upgrade (was on 3.x). Decided while I was there to go ahead and reset the box. Took it back to my brother's place and it's working now.


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## Gene Jockey (Jan 17, 2005)

tbeckner said:


> The way I understand it, the need for a phoneline is as follows.
> And in the case of accounts that have special packages, as listed below, I believe it is actually used to verify access rights.
> All professional and college sports subscriptions, such as NFL SUNDAY TICKET, NBA LEAGUE PASS, MLB EXTRA INNINGS, and NHL® CENTER ICE®, or local regional sports network, if you subscribe to a TOTAL CHOICE® package or the SPORTS Pack.


Neither of my two hacked DTivos, nor my plain old receiver in the garage, have been hooked up to a phone line in years. I got every game in the NHL Centre Ice package this year just fine.


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## dthreet (Jan 18, 2006)

you dont need a phonline but you have to make a call the first time to download account status


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## dssdbs (May 18, 2001)

DirecTV's Customer Agreement can be read here:

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/learn/CustomerAgreement.jsp

and for download in pdf form here: http://www.directv.com/learn/pdf/24493_00_WebCstAgr_1LGL_f.pdf



> (f) *Additional TVs*. If you add separate Service on additional TVs, you may purchase a separate subscription for each TV. Or, if all your receivers are continuously connected to the same land-based phone line, we can "mirror" the programming to your additional TVs and charge you only the fee amount described in Section 2. Pay per view programming ordered by remote control cannot be mirrored and can be viewed only on the TV for which it is purchased. You agree to provide true and accurate information about the location of your receivers.
> 
> (g) *Phone Connections*. Your receiver must always be directly connected to a land-based telephone line to receive certain Service, such as sports subscriptions and your local regional sports services network, and to be authorized to order with your remote control. If it is not so connected, or if it is connected to a line other than the one you tell us, or if the line is not performing according to our requirements, we may deactivate the applicable Service. If we do, you will still be responsible for all Services purchased through the date of deactivation. Your receivers must also be connected to the same land-based telephone line in order to be eligible to pay the additional TV fee (see 1(f)) rather than purchase a separate subscription for each additional TV.


Notice it says "we may". But, with DirecTV focusing on "High Value" customers, they seem to be enforcing their rules more now.

I would think if you have just 1 receiver and aren't subscribing to any sports packages/locals that require proof of your physical location, then you could probably talk your way out of it.

I've always had all 4 of my DirecTiVo's connected to a land-based phone line, and always will.


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

Gene Jockey said:


> Neither of my two hacked DTivos, nor my plain old receiver in the garage, have been hooked up to a phone line in years. I got every game in the NHL Centre Ice package this year just fine.


All I did was post the OFFICAL INFORMATION as listed on the DirecTV web site; its up to DirecTV if DirecTV actually ENFORCES IT!

It appears that DirecTV does not always enforce it, because for almost a year three of my DirecTiVos havent been connected and the other two brand new units havent been connected for months. Of course all of them have been hacked so none of them need to be connected.

But then again, I DO NOT order PayPerViews and havent for at least the last four years (blame that on NETFLIX) and I grew tired of NFLST many years ago mainly because I -- Self Edited --.

I do have to say that I am really enjoying the ONE HOUR buffer hack I installed this week, it works great and only costs an hour of the total recording time.


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## dthreet (Jan 18, 2006)

DirecTV wants you to keep the phone line in so they can discover pirates. but you can hack your replacement or take it to a friends and make the first daily call to download the account status. Then your all good till clear and del.


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## Devil_Reaper (May 31, 2006)

most likely you got a hard ass agent, if your just activating a replacement ird that you were sent ask to speak to the technical dept. But I would just call back and just say that you just got a phone line hooked up and they will reactivate it for you.


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## Leila (Apr 28, 2006)

problem solved...

hooked it up to neighbor's phone line and everything is fine now.....


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## purple6816 (May 27, 2003)

Leila said:


> I had to call DirecTV this morning to activate/deactivate a replacement DirecTiVo.
> 
> During the call, I accidentlaly told the nice DirecTV rep that I no longer have a
> landline phone in my house. As soon as I said it, I knew I should have said it.


Call back and tell them it was your evil twin that called in before and he made a mistake.


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## rborden (Dec 31, 2004)

newsposter said:


> I agree it's always been there, i read fine print.
> 
> Howeeeever, if directv truly wanted to enforce it, they would turn off every receiver that hasn't called in in X days. Definitely easily technologically possible. So i submit DTV doesn't take the phone line thing seriously and that they shouldn't have turned that guy off. Also with all the folks on here posting X days without a line, it's obviously done a decent amount.
> 
> Also, i 'thought' the new dtv dvrs didn't even need a line..legally. I know whenever i had my B65 on, i never every had it hooked up to a phone line and it worked just fine. So i imagine most standalones dont need one either.


As of 10/01/06 they are going to start inforcing this rule on employee accounts. If there is no phoneline our accounts will be shut off completly, I do not know if reg. accounts are next


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

After reading through this thread I've come to the conclusion that no one has provided a definitive resolution to the sat vs. phone upgrade controversy. Here are the facts:

When a software update is initially released, it is transmitted via the satellites to all DTivos connected to a dish. This has been occurring since the release of version 3.x for S2 DTivos. The software resides in MFS until such time as the DTivo phones home to receive the initialization command. After making the regularly scheduled call, the DTivo queues an automatic reboot to occur around 2AM and the software update is installed at that time.

The software updates are only distributed via satellite for a short period of time (on the order of 2 or 3 months, IIRC) and then they stop transmitting it. If you connect a DTivo after the update has been distributed then the only way you'll receive it is to let the DTivo phone home and download it via the phone connection.

The result being that software updates are distributed via the satellites AND via phone connection. It all depends on whether or not the DTivo was connected at the time the update was initially distributed as to how it actually received it.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

mr.unnatural said:


> After reading through this thread I've come to the conclusion that no one has provided a definitive resolution to the sat vs. phone upgrade controversy. Here are the facts:
> 
> When a software update is initially released, it is transmitted via the satellites to all DTivos connected to a dish. This has been occurring since the release of version 3.x for S2 DTivos. The software resides in MFS until such time as the DTivo phones home to receive the initialization command. After making the regularly scheduled call, the DTivo queues an automatic reboot to occur around 2AM and the software update is installed at that time.
> 
> ...


I don't think it's much of a "controversy", but you summed it up perfectly.

If you don't receive the upgrade slices during the upgrade rollout window via the satellite download, which then requires phone line authorization to reboot and install the upgrade, the only way to get the upgrade after the rollout window is to receive the upgrade slices during phone call downloads, which then tells the receiver to reboot and install the upgrade.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I suppose it should have been called "confusion" and not so much a controversy.

On another note, Verizon is gearing up to install FIOS in my neighborhood. They've been sending folks throughout the neighborhood and painting the locations of all underground wiring so I expect to see them planting the fiber optics in the next week or so. I'm currently locked into a 2-year agreement with DTV but I'm giving serious consideration to making the switch to FIOS when it becomes available. I'm wondering if DTV would suspend my account if I let on that I don't have my HDTivos connected to a phone line? 

For those of you that have had their service suspended, is DTV still sending you a monthly bill or is your account on hold until such time as you can prove you have phone service? I'd be curious to see how this scenario plays out for anyone locked into a 2-year commitment. Do they stop the clock while the account is suspended or does it count as time served? What would happen if you allowed your account to be suspended and then just never activated it again? 

I have a land line but I've long thought about cancelling it since we all have cell phones and hardly ever use it except for the occasional local call. I get more calls from telemarketers than anyone else, which is more than just cause for terminating the service.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> The software updates are only distributed via satellite for a short period of time (on the order of 2 or 3 months, IIRC) and then they stop transmitting it. If you connect a DTivo after the update has been distributed then the only way you'll receive it is to let the DTivo phone home and download it via the phone connection.


Almost but not quite. The software is only on the satellite for a few weeks but the TioVo caches it. The software is always available on the phone. If the TiVo makes the phone call and it is on the list to activate new software it will first check for a cached copy and if it does not have a cached copy it will download it from the phone. So even while the software is "on the satellite" the TiVo has the option to download it over the phone.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Right, but any DTivo connected to a dish should have cached the update in advance of making the phone call. Getting it via phone while it's being distributed via the satellites would probably require that the DTivo be disconnected from the dish until the call has been made. It would take an extremely rare situation for a DTivo to get the update via phone while the software is being distributed through the sats but it is feasible that it could happen. It's more likely that the software would have been cached weeks prior to the DTivo coming up in the queue to get the update installed. DTV would rather distribute the software via the sats than tie up phone lines endlessly for a software rollout.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> Right, but any DTivo connected to a dish should have cached the update in advance of making the phone call.


There are several cases it might not have it. The checksum from the satellite download could be wrong, recordings secheduled during the sattelite download, disconnected during satellite download, powered off during download, ...[/QUOTE]


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

> There are several cases it might not have it. The checksum from the satellite download could be wrong, recordings secheduled during the sattelite download, disconnected during satellite download, powered off during download,


OK, I'll agree with the checksum error but how is anything else you mentioned different than what I said? The download would most likely occcur days or even weeks before it's ever installed. There would have to be an awful lot of coincidental occurrences for the DTivo NOT to have downloaded and cached the update prior to actually installing it.

The way I understand it, the DTivo will automatically reschedule a download if it sees there's a conflict. Besides, wouldn't it require recording conflicts to occur to prevent the data from being downloaded? I don't recall if downloads are specific to only one of the tuners or if it could use either tuner for downloads.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

Lets just agree it available over the phone the same time it is being beamed over the satellite...


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## puffdaddy (Mar 1, 2006)

mr.unnatural said:


> There would have to be an awful lot of coincidental occurrences for the DTivo NOT to have downloaded and cached the update prior to actually installing it.


A unit with an incorrect DataGroupList will discard SDD slices that it should keep, though I've never tempted the fates and let such a unit call in to see if it downloads the upgrade slices via the call.


> The way I understand it, the DTivo will automatically reschedule a download if it sees there's a conflict. Besides, wouldn't it require recording conflicts to occur to prevent the data from being downloaded? I don't recall if downloads are specific to only one of the tuners or if it could use either tuner for downloads.


I imagine that slices are transmitted several times over to ensure that units get them irrespective of what late night pr0n a subscriber may be recording, but other factors could cause the unit to not keep said slices. That said, I would agree that most normal units should have the slices when they are selected for upgrade.


rminsk said:


> Lets just agree it available over the phone the same time it is being beamed over the satellite...


I was under the impression that DTiVo software upgrades were rolled out via SDDs before making the slice downloads available through the nightly call to TiVo (as 2-3 million subscribed units downloading 40MB over the phone seems an unnecessary burden when those birds can beam 250KB/sec to every last unit).


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## supasta (May 6, 2006)

Boston Fan said:


> That's weird. When I installed my latest DTivo, I told them it wasn't connected to a phone line, and they didn't seem to care. Activated it with no problem.


Ditto here. They did press the issue of not being able to order PPV from the box itself, but they surely didn't suspend the account.


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