# Increase in copy protected content since TiVo Stream released



## sd2528

I'm a long time TiVo user who uses TiVo Desktop Plus to transfer movies/recordings to my iPhone. Over the last month I've noticed a drastic increase in the number of shows/movies I can't transfer using TiVo Desktop Plus. I've been on FiOS for 3 years now, I haven't upgraded any boxes or cable cards. In fact I can't point to anything at all that has changed other than TiVo releasing their new Stream device which forces you to buy new hardware.

I don't want to be cynical but can anyone point to another reason why this happened? Is it happening for anyone else or just me?


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## generaltso

This started before the Stream came out.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/28/verizon-fios-tv-cablecard-restrictions-copy-once/

http://stopthecap.com/2012/06/28/ve...t-unauthorized-recording-of-premium-channels/


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## waynomo

Also a thread here.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=489184

I too have FIOS. So far I have only noticed the change with HBO. (I don't have Cinemax, but I believe that is now copy protected also.)

Have you noticed anything else that has changed?


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## global_dev

on FIOS, at the end of July 2012, some premium channels (like HBO) copy protection changed from copy freely (transfering) to copy once (streaming).


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## aaronwt

waynomo said:


> Also a thread here.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=489184
> 
> I too have FIOS. So far I have only noticed the change with HBO. (I don't have Cinemax, but I believe that is now copy protected also.)
> 
> Have you noticed anything else that has changed?


Yes, Cinemax is protected too. I have Cinemax as part of my Ultimate HD bundle.


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## sd2528

That's good. I've been pretty impressed with TiVo over the years and it would have surprised me if they did something just to promote their new product.

I guess the question now is, do these copy protected shows work with Stream or are they blocked on that as well?


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## DeWitt

You can stream the copy protected shows, but you can not download them for offline viewing.


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## WhiskeyTango

sd2528 said:


> That's good. I've been pretty impressed with TiVo over the years and it would have surprised me if they did something just to promote their new product.


Tivo doesn't set the copy protection, they only enforce it.


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## ALbino

I'm sure this has been beaten to death, and I hate bumping, but it didn't seem worth starting a new thread over.

I just recently moved to an area with FiOS and got my TiVo XL4 specifically because I wanted to use TiVo desktop to watch HBO programs on my PC. Obviously, after reading a bunch of threads on this, that doesn't work anymore. I downloaded KMTTG, but it has the same "issue", if you want to call it that.

Some people seem to indicate that if I had bought my XL4 from WeaKnees then it would have a "prom hack" which allows larger storage, and maybe transfer of "copy protected" content. Is this actually the case? If it is then I can return my new XL4 and get one from them.

Alternatively, is there a method to login in to my TiVo box and just transfer the files by hand, and then decode them on my PC?

Any information would be helpful. Thank!


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## Dan203

Premiere units can't be hacked to disable the copy protection, at least not without hardware modification. Older S3/HD units could be hacked via the prom to allow access after which you could disable the copy protection and make it so anything recorded after the hack was set to copy freely. However S3/HD units don't work with the Stream, so even if you picked one up just for HBO you'd need to transfer the recordings to a Premiere first and then use the Stream to copy from the Premiere. Also I never done it, but it's my understanding that doing the prom hack and disabling copy protection isn't easy. So unless you're very technical it may not even be something you're capable of doing.

As for alternatives... There are none. Once the show is encrypted there is no way to get it to transfer.

Dan


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## ALbino

Thank you, Dan. Appreciate the direct answer.


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## lrhorer

Dan203 said:


> Premiere units can't be hacked to disable the copy protection, at least not without hardware modification.


Not even then. They are locked down very tight.



Dan203 said:


> Older S3/HD units could be hacked via the prom to allow access after which you could disable the copy protection and make it so anything recorded after the hack was set to copy freely.


Well, yes, although there is also a method by which content recorded prior to the hack can have its status changed, and also ways to transfer content that is marked as copy protected. 'Several ways to skin the cat once the TiVo is modified, actually.



Dan203 said:


> However S3/HD units don't work with the Stream, so even if you picked one up just for HBO you'd need to transfer the recordings to a Premiere first and then use the Stream to copy from the Premiere.


Or just copy to an external PC and transfer from there. 'Lot of advantages to that, including removing commercials.



Dan203 said:


> Also I never done it, but it's my understanding that doing the prom hack and disabling copy protection isn't easy. So unless you're very technical it may not even be something you're capable of doing.


Not really. The PROM is an SMD, but not one of those ungodly high pitch, high pin count monsters. It's only a 32 pin chip. ChipQuik can be used to remove it, and soldering requires some practice, but it is not that painful. There are people around who will do it for you, for a modest fee. Modifying the software is not very difficult, either. I wrote a couple of simple scripts that can handle all of the more common hacks in just a few seconds once one attaches the hard drive to a PC and boots into Linux. Details are on the "other" TiVo hobbyist forum.



Dan203 said:


> As for alternatives... There are none. Once the show is encrypted there is no way to get it to transfer.


It's not the encryption, it is the value of the CCI byte. On a Premiere, however, neither one can be circumvented.


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## lrhorer

ALbino said:


> Some people seem to indicate that if I had bought my XL4 from WeaKnees then it would have a "prom hack" which allows larger storage, and maybe transfer of "copy protected" content. Is this actually the case?


No. S3 and S4 TiVos purchased from Weaknees are not modified in any way other than having a larger hard drive. This does not require hacking.


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## esilbe1

I just noticed today that AMC and Spike TV are copyright protected too. It's really unfortunate for TiVo this is occurring because it reflects poorly on them. I can't imagine how TiVo couldn't workout an arrangement w/ these companies for certain use case scenarios. I use Stream to download shows for my daily commute and now those shows are locked to my box, which defeats Stream for me. Thus, TiVo is kind of useless. I regret the purchase now.


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## aaronwt

esilbe1 said:


> I just noticed today that AMC and Spike TV are copyright protected too. It's really unfortunate for TiVo this is occurring because it reflects poorly on them. I can't imagine how TiVo couldn't workout an arrangement w/ these companies for certain use case scenarios. I use Stream to download shows for my daily commute and now those shows are locked to my box, which defeats Stream for me. Thus, TiVo is kind of useless. I regret the purchase now.


It's your cable company that is implementing the restrictions.


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## jrtroo

esilbe1 said:


> I can't imagine how TiVo couldn't workout an arrangement w/ these companies for certain use case scenarios.


I cannot imagine that your cable company would want to agree to work out an arrangement. They feel it would diminish revenues, and they have no legal requirements to make a deal, why would they want to help Tivo?


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