# Tivo and Apple



## yellowlab15 (Sep 8, 2006)

So anyone think there is any tie between the New Tivo series 3 and the Apple announcement next week.


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## cheerdude (Feb 27, 2001)

Some people do... espcially with the potential Apple Movie Store. However, obviously, we won't know until Tuesday.


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## TechDreamer (Jan 27, 2002)

You read my mind. I have been hoping they are tied together, but I didn't want to speculate for fear of a jinx. I want them to be tied together because I want Tivo to be part of the "Reality distortion field". I also want as much pressue as possible on the Cable companies to make CableCards work.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

I saw part of a story today about Blackberries getting iDownloads. I'd say if that happens it increases the chance that iDownloads could happen on TiVo.

?????????????????????????????????
I'm not sure if I just mixed up two seperate stories.
?????????????????????????????????


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## johnner1999 (Oct 26, 2002)

i was thinking the same thing every since last year during the rumors that Apple was going to buy TiVo... It does marry the two in a good way. 

BUT


1) Tivo can't even get TiVo-To-Go to work for my Mac

2) After seeing that AD that Tivo placed in the Cable Company Mag; I highly doubt it. As this iTunes movie link would kind of poke the cable co's in the wrong way IMHO



But 

I am still holding on to some hope. I do know that as of this posting next week I may have to drop my three tivo's and switch to crappy SA8300 boxes which record at a higher quility. Just has the worst UI I have used (I think my parents 1985 RCA VHS VCR has a better "timer" function lol) BUT as they say the price is right and has GREAT HD PQ. I just can't afford $1600 on tivo's now (if that is the price - which I am hoping isn't) 


ok I'll stop hi-jacking this thread


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## sonicboom (Sep 2, 2006)

I kinda hope not.

While I love Apple, I think their movie download service will be a flop right out the gate. Why would anyone pay $9.99 or $14.99 for a downloadable movie? I'd rather pay a bit more and have a disk and some packaging to show for it.

If Apple were to run a downloadable Netflix kind of service... then they would have something. I could see Tivo (and me) playing a part in that game for sure.


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## doormat (Sep 15, 2004)

From a TECHNICAL standpoint, its completely possible as the Broadcom chip in the S3 can decode HD H.264/AVC. So if Apple wanted to allow TiVo to stream videos from iTunes, there is nothing from the technical standpoint that would stop it. 

Whether or not The Steve would allow it to happen.. I dont know. I really dont think the TiVo is priced as competition for anything Apple has, so on that front Apple doesnt worry about losing any sales from allowing TiVo access into iTMS. If anything, it would really help if I could, imagine a TiVo as a stand alone device buying movies from the iT-Movie-S. Download the movies to the TiVo's HD (or optionally via an intermediate computer elsewhere in the house) - it would be a huge deal, people could finally get out from behind thier monitors and in front of their home theaters to watch the movie in all its glory. 

Think about it, the Macs that exist now, dont have anything fancy in the way of speakers or much surround sound to speak of. Why waste all those capabilities on 99% of the customers who dont have their mac hooked up to a DD 5.1 system. Instead, let the TiVo be the intermediary.

I expect apple to release their Airport+Video system, but thats going to be priced at $149. Far far far below the S3 TiVo.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

sonicboom said:


> Why would anyone pay $9.99 or $14.99 for a downloadable movie? I'd rather pay a bit more and have a disk and some packaging to show for it.


Yeah. Why would anyone pay to download songs when they could have a nifty shinny silver disk full of music. That i-tunes music store will never take off.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

But are the prices of downloadable music the same as the prices for music you can actually own?

If I'm spending good money on something, I don't want it to go "poof" if I stop paying for a service of some kind.

If I spend money on something, I want to OWN it and be able to KEEP it.


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## JoeyJoJo (Sep 29, 2003)

gastrof said:


> But are the prices of downloadable music the same as the prices for music you can actually own?
> 
> If I'm spending good money on something, I don't want it to go "poof" if I stop paying for a service of some kind.
> 
> If I spend money on something, I want to OWN it and be able to KEEP it.


Huh? You "OWN" downloads from the iTunes Music Store. There is no monthly fee, you just pay for the songs you want. That play for you. Forever.

On the movies downloads, I'd bet they are going to have a hardware product to go along with downloadable movies. Whether that product is the Series 3 with Tivocast or their own device remains to be seen.


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## chessplayer (Aug 18, 2004)

yellowlab15 said:


> So anyone think there is any tie between the New Tivo series 3 and the Apple announcement next week.


 I will eat my hat if there is such a tie. Or eat my tie if there is such a tie.


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## james.92 (Jul 18, 2006)

yellowlab15 said:


> So anyone think there is any tie between the New Tivo series 3 and the Apple announcement next week.


I wish I could tie in my TiVo to one of those new 24 inch iMacs


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## andydumi (Jun 26, 2006)

SullyND said:


> Yeah. Why would anyone pay to download songs when they could have a nifty shinny silver disk full of music. That i-tunes music store will never take off.


if itunes forced you to download full albums for 10 bucks or more, it would not have taken off. the main draw with music was that you can download only 1 song, often the only good song on an album and only pay 1 dollar.

with movies, its all going to hinge on how easy it is to download and replay on devices/TV.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

andydumi said:


> with movies, its all going to hinge on how easy it is to download and replay on devices/TV.


And the ability to burn to DVD.


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## doormat (Sep 15, 2004)

Indeed, not being able to burn to a DVD is a big problem. You can burn music to CD, but not movies? No way. The problem then is do you get all the extras? The commentary, extra scenes, etc. Will you need dual layer media (currently priced $2-3 per disc) to burn it all? How long will it take to transcode H.264 in whatever resolution down to MPEG2 so your DVD player can play it?


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

Actually, it would seem that a tie-in with TiVo would be a great "out" for the no burning to DVD issue. Burning to DVD is a problem, because the studios HATE that there's no reliable DVD DRM. But if you could download to your TiVo, you'd have a large hard drive as a destination for the download, with DRM already in place, and already connected to the display. I'd sort of ignored the TiVo/Apple talk until now, but this one actually makes some sense.


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## Crazydiamond (Aug 2, 2006)

As long as we are having wet dreams about Apple -

I would like to have a Mac (and Apple apps) that replaced both Tivo AND Comcast. 

High speed internet stream of HD TV stations and Movies from internet into my Mac - then distribute to all my TV's and computers via wireless highspeed Airport Video Express devices with bluetooth wireless TV remotes....


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

doormat said:


> Indeed, not being able to burn to a DVD is a big problem. You can burn music to CD, but not movies? No way. The problem then is do you get all the extras? The commentary, extra scenes, etc. Will you need dual layer media (currently priced $2-3 per disc) to burn it all? How long will it take to transcode H.264 in whatever resolution down to MPEG2 so your DVD player can play it?


Actually me friend who uses Tivo server to stream MPEG4 to his hacked DTivo siad the conversion of MPEG4 to MPEG2 is very fast.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

I think this is all probably stemming from a comment that i seem to remember DirecTV made about Tivo. Something about how they are tired of Tivo and their "Apple-like" ways. Or maybe I am remembering incorrectly.



sonicboom said:


> If Apple were to run a downloadable Netflix kind of service... then they would have something. I could see Tivo (and me) playing a part in that game for sure.


Netflix is already doing this, with a set top box, that will d/l your movies overnight. If the box is free or even less than $100, I will be getting one. I just hope they won't throttle it like they do for their mailers.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

JoeyJoJo said:


> On the movies downloads, I'd bet they are going to have a hardware product to go along with downloadable movies. Whether that product is the Series 3 with Tivocast or their own device remains to be seen.


It will be called: "The Video iPod."

Remember, when they announced the 5G iPod, Steve said something like:

"What's it going to be called? The iPod with Video."

This leaves room for another product, as it underscores the fact that the 5G is primary an iPod, with video capabilities.

I predict a larger form factor with a similar clickwheel interface and a large screen (around 4-5").


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

Why do you tease me? Of course this would be super awesome. Of course it will be a cold day in hell before this happens.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

classicX said:


> I think this is all probably stemming from a comment that i seem to remember DirecTV made about Tivo. Something about how they are tired of Tivo and their "Apple-like" ways. Or maybe I am remembering incorrectly.


Wasn't it from the classified ad Apple placed 17 months ago:

*Wanted:

450,000 Broadband connected boxes to display video on TV.*


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

sonicboom said:


> While I love Apple, I think their movie download service will be a flop right out the gate.


Everything that Apple has done in the music area has been a flop right out of the gate, at least according to a large section of stuff I read.

I gave up arguing with the reality distortion field a long time ago. It was always right, and I was always wrong.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

doormat said:


> Will you need dual layer media (currently priced $2-3 per disc) to burn it all?


You're buying your dual layer media at the wrong place. I see ads for it (admittedly usually no-name brands) for $1.50/disc.


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## vanclute (Aug 4, 2003)

Personally I would be very happy with a downloadable movie service that allowed me to burn to DVD but did NOT include all the "extra" stuff like commentary, etc. Most of the time, we just want to watch the movie, but don't want to pay full price for a couple hours' worth of questionable entertainment. 

If they offered just the movie and nothing else, burnable, for a discount price like $5 or something... I think it'd be a huge hit. But then again, I thought the original iMac was a total joke and nobody would ever buy one, so I've been wrong before at least once.


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## sonicboom (Sep 2, 2006)

andydumi said:


> if itunes forced you to download full albums for 10 bucks or more, it would not have taken off. the main draw with music was that you can download only 1 song, often the only good song on an album and only pay 1 dollar.
> 
> with movies, its all going to hinge on how easy it is to download and replay on devices/TV.


BINGO!

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I don't understand Apple's movie strategy at all.


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## sonicboom (Sep 2, 2006)

vanclute said:


> If they offered just the movie and nothing else, burnable, for a discount price like $5 or something... I think it'd be a huge hit. But then again, I thought the original iMac was a total joke and nobody would ever buy one, so I've been wrong before at least once.


Yeah, but they are not.
The pricing is $9.99 for old movies, and $14.99 for newer releases.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

doormat said:


> From a TECHNICAL standpoint, its completely possible as the Broadcom chip in the S3 can decode HD H.264/AVC. ...


Has the chip in the S3 been announced somewhere? Did I miss pictures? I've been really curious as to what the hardware will be.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

sonicboom said:


> BINGO!
> 
> Couldn't have said it better myself.
> 
> I don't understand Apple's movie strategy at all.


Do you want to pay $.99 for each chapter and just download the best chapter?


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## andydumi (Jun 26, 2006)

HDTiVo said:


> Do you want to pay $.99 for each chapter and just download the best chapter?


LOL

i think he meant that video will not be automatically a success due to high prices and limited use (no dvd) so far.

what about Amazon's movie download strategy?
movies are about 6-20 with no discernible distinctions. tv shows are 1.99.
and you can rent movies for 2-4 dollars.

no dvd burning, but at least you can put it onto a portable device, or up to 5 computers.

if apple or amazon lowered prices to where it would be below buying a dvd, something like 10 or less for the movie with no extras, then it might work. at more than 10, id rather buy the dvd, and have extras, a dvd and everything.

not to mention that there are already programs that strip drm from the amazon movies, allowing you to burn, copy and whatnot.
http://gear.ign.com/articles/731/731958p1.html


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## sonicboom (Sep 2, 2006)

HDTiVo said:


> Do you want to pay $.99 for each chapter and just download the best chapter?


Of course not.
The point is, the music download model doesn't apply to movies.

The Netflix model does though, and I could see somthing like that become a downloadable service: pay a flat monthly fee (of around $17) and download up to three movies at any given time.

Netflix seems to use the mail delay to their advantage though (and distribution throttling on top of that), so I don't know if this model would be profitable in practise.


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## doormat (Sep 15, 2004)

sonicboom said:


> Netflix seems to use the mail delay to their advantage though (and distribution throttling on top of that), so I don't know if this model would be profitable in practise.


My internet service is going to be bumped to 6Mb/s downstream within the next few weeks (or so Cox says, and the premium level is going to 10Mb/s). I'm to the point where I can watch a DVD in realtime. Netflix cant use a delay tactic when I'm able to watch the movie in realtime. I click on the movie and in 15 seconds it starts (buffering). They have to get some pricing concessions out of the movie industry to allow the whole "net" part of netflix to happen. They could try to use a bittorrent solution but that isnt going to allow streaming of the movie (since it just grabs whatever parts of the movie from everyone else), and they'd have minimal bandwidth costs. But ISPs are now throttling BT traffic so it'll take you longer to get movies.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

well they sell episodes for 1.99 and sold a bunch so maybe they can sell download movies for 9 or 15 bucks. Not to me though. I am not one to archive movies and if I do buy it is to get the whole deal complete with packaging. like a boxed LOTR set for example.

so until something as good a deal as netflix monthly subscription comes along then why switch.

I might sometimes use a 2$ a movie have 48 hours to watch it deal though


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> well they sell episodes for 1.99 and sold a bunch


"They" sold 15M in 9 months. Hundreds of millions are watched daily.

iEpisodes is only a success in terms of its own embryonic self.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

sonicboom said:


> Of course not.
> The point is, the music download model doesn't apply to movies.
> 
> The Netflix model does though, and I could see somthing like that become a downloadable service: pay a flat monthly fee (of around $17) and download up to three movies at any given time.
> ...


Its called Vongo and its much cheaper than Netflix. All you can eat. No throttle.

But limited library and options for viewing.

Video is much different from music.


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