# Surge Protector/Battery Backup/ Power Conditioner?



## michael1248 (Feb 14, 2002)

Wondering how many of my TiVo friends utilize one, two or all of these devices?

I am looking for a component looking type of device that acts as a Surge Protector, a Battery Backup and possibly a Power Conditioner. 

I know that power outages and surges can mess with my TiVo. So, I am definitely going to get a device that , at the least, can protect my TiVo from these two. My jury is out on whether or not to spend the extra $$$ on a device that is also a Power Conditioner. I would also like to plug in my TV and DVD player as well. 

I would love to hear about what you guys use, if you would buy your device again (and/or upgrade it), and how it looks/fits in a component cabinet. FYI: I am on a limited budget.


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

A UPS is necessary unless you want a 5 second power outage to seriously interfere with your recordings/viewings. Tivos don't reboot instantly.

If you want to have improved power quality, send me a $1,000 check and I'll send you back an email indicating that your power quality has improved. That will be as effective as other options, and since people judge quality based on price, some will view the quality as very high!


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## michael1248 (Feb 14, 2002)

The check is in the mail!

Does your UPS come with a surge protector? Is it on the floor or "component looking?"


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

GoodSpike said:


> A UPS is necessary unless you want a 5 second power outage to seriously interfere with your recordings/viewings. Tivos don't reboot instantly.
> 
> If you want to have improved power quality, send me a $1,000 check and I'll send you back an email indicating that your power quality has improved. That will be as effective as other options, and since people judge quality based on price, some will view the quality as very high!


I know some people have UPS units on all their electronics including TiVo, I have been using TiVo units from 2001 and never used a UPS except once, and had and a bad experience, the power went out for about 10 seconds and the TiVo did not re-boot but the cable went out in that 10 second time, when the cable came back on it did not synchronize with the TiVo, so I had to re-boot the TiVo myself, took the UPS off and no more problems, but we do have good power at my home, about 3 or more months between short power losses.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

An inexpensive UPS such as APC brand will do fine. TiVo power supply's (and most modern electronic equipment supplies) don't care whether the power is "conditioned" to a pure sine wave. All that matters is avoiding dropouts and surges, which APC will do fine. Just be prepared to replace the battery every 2 or 3 years. They just don't last any longer than that. And do not use an additional surge protector with the UPS -- not necessary and can even be harmful.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

If you're a member of Costco, they sell a good CyberPower UPS at a very good price. I've got 3 of them running everything from TiVos and TVs to cable modems and routers. If you aren't a Costco member, find a friend who is.


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## zerdian1 (Apr 19, 2015)

Layered Surge Protection:

Layer One:
We are considering a Lightning Protection System covering our buildings and Surge Protection for the Power Mains coming into our buildings.

Layer Two:
I have the the Power Company providing a surge Protection at my METER for electrical devices and limited insurance for Motor Driven Electrical Appliances.
This comes with $5000 insurance for Motor driven electrical appliances.

Layer Three:
I have added new Tripp-Lite Surge Protectors for my Apple 5K 27" iMac desktop computer, Modem and Apple Airport and Computer Backup Storage.
I have added a Tripp-Lite Surge Protector for each of my 5 sets of TiVo and HDTV.
Tripp Lite 8 Outlet Surge Protector Power Strip 8ft Cord Right Angle Plug 1440 Joules (TLP808) 
Tripp Lite 7 Outlet Surge Protector/Suppressor Power Strip 7ft Cord Right Angle Plug (SUPER7)
These each come with a Lifetime Warranty and $75,000 Ultimate Lifetime Insurance for connected devices.

Layers Two and Three will protect my electrical and electronics devices whether or not the building gets its lighting protection and surge protection systems.

We live on the Ocean in Florida, the US Capitol of Lighting strikes each year.

Other things to consider are UPS and Power conditioning, and if they are beneficial and if they are necessary in my environment.

Battery Operated Devices, like Laptops, if connected to power, are buffered by the battery.

Low voltage lines like Cable and Telephone can all carry surges but most surge protection will greatly impact Internet Speed.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

I've got a Panamax power conditioner ahead of the APC UPS which then connects to a big shelf of almost all my electronics. I couldn't tell you if the panamax has ever done any actual good, but I do see it claiming to boost the output voltage back to the 120 range when it sometimes falls to something like 114 as provided by Florida Power.

After a few years of operation, nothing has gotten blowed up, but for all I know that would also be the case without it.


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## RFEngineer (Oct 30, 2006)

My house is in an older neighborhood with above-ground utilities. As such, the power is interrupted many times per year and, occasionally, for several hours at a time. Because of this I have about ten APC 1500VA UPS units scattered throughout the house to power phone systems, RF distribution amps, PCs, and all audio-video components.

Several years ago I was watching television during a thunderstorm and, coincident with the thunder-clap, there was a brilliant flash behind my set followed by the smell of burning electronics. The UPS was totally fried (smoking, even) but none of the downstream equipment was damaged. 

So, yeah, I think it is worth doing.

I suspect the strike came in on the cable-tv feed-line because nothing else in the home was damaged. I recommend units that allow for RG-6/U (F-connector) pass-though protection for this reason. Obviously it was also somewhat mitigated by copious grounding of that feed both at the pole, at the outside connection to the home, and inside as well, as pretty much nothing is going to save your bacon if you get a full-on multi-hundred ampere strike.


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## DigitalDawn (Apr 26, 2009)

zerdian1 said:


> Layered Surge Protection:
> 
> Layer One:
> We are considering a Lightning Protection System covering our buildings and Surge Protection for the Power Mains coming into our buildings.
> ...


I live in Jupiter, FL and I've been installing electronics for more than 30 years. I can tell you this. Nothing will protect you from a direct lightning strike. Nothing. Even those guys who sell those external $5000 lightning protection systems don't offer a warranty.

FPL is another story though. That's what surge suppressors are for.


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## zerdian1 (Apr 19, 2015)

tarheelblue32 said:


> If you're a member of Costco, they sell a good CyberPower UPS at a very good price. I've got 3 of them running everything from TiVos and TVs to cable modems and routers. If you aren't a Costco member, find a friend who is.


I am no longer a member of COSTCO as it is a 150 mile RT for me.

I listed several CyberPower models.
The first two below from Amazon Prime are of interest.
The second one provides a simulated Sine Wave output like your regular AC line has.

****************************************************************************************************

This is what I found in Amazon Prime:

CyberPower CP1500AVRLCD Intelligent LCD UPS 1500VA 900W AVR Mini-Tower
Speakers Product
$139.95by CyberPower
2.4K

CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD PFC Sinewave UPS 1500VA 900W PFC Compatible Mini-Tower
Consumer Electronics Product
$214.95by CyberPower
1.5K

CyberPower BRG1500AVRLCD UPS 1500VA/900W 12 Outlets AVR LCD USB Ports Mini Tower
Consumer Electronics Product
$154.94by CyberPower
176

CyberPower CP600LCD Intelligent LCD UPS 600VA 340W Compact
Consumer Electronics Product
$64.95by CyberPower
766

CyberPower CP1000AVRLCD Intelligent LCD Series UPS 1000VA 600W AVR Mini-Tower
Consumer Electronics Product
$109.95by CyberPower
2.4K

CyberPower CP425SLG Standby UPS 425VA 255W Compact
Consumer Electronics Product
$44.95by CyberPower
667

CyberPower CP825LCD Intelligent LCD UPS 825VA 450W Compact
Consumer Electronics Product
$78.95by CyberPower
766

CyberPower OR700LCDRM1U Smart App LCD UPS 700VA 400W SNMP/HTTP Rackmount
Consumer Electronics Product
$166.53by CyberPower
128

CyberPower EC850LCD Ecologic 850VA/510-Watts Energy Efficient Desktop LCD UPS
Consumer Electronics Product
$82.92by Cyberpower Systems
290

CyberPower CP550SLG Standby UPS 550VA 330W Compact
Consumer Electronics Product
$51.95by CyberPower
667

******************************************************************************************************

Those from amazon Prime above compare to those offered by CostCo below:

******************************************************************************************************

Multifunction LCD Display, PowerPanel® Personal EditionCyberPower 1400VA / 840Watts Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS)
$134.99

Rated 4.3 out of 5
(18)
Compare product
Add to Cart
825VA/450W Simulated sine wave UPS, Full-time Surge Protection and Battery BackupCyberPower 825VA / 450Watts Intelligent LCD Battery Backup with 7 Outlet Surge Suppressor
$84.99

Rated 5 out of 5
(1)
Compare product
Add to Cart
Widely-Spaced 625VA/375W Capacity, Power Management Software IncludedCyberPower 625VA / 375Watts Battery Back-Up With Surge Protection (CP625HG)
$47.99

Rated 2.2 out of 5
(6)

*********************************************************************************************************

This is a link to https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/?region=US.
They supply homes, businesses and the Government.

*********************************************************************************************************

During the Apollo Moon Landings, we got our Electric Power from two different Power companies and had a Diesel Engine driven Generator BACKUP for all the Critical Computers, Communications, Graphic and Numeric Displays and Workstations.

*********************************************************************************************************


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

lessd said:


> I know some people have UPS units on all their electronics including TiVo, I have been using TiVo units from 2001 and never used a UPS except once, and had and a bad experience, the power went out for about 10 seconds and the TiVo did not re-boot but the cable went out in that 10 second time, when the cable came back on it did not synchronize with the TiVo, so I had to re-boot the TiVo myself, took the UPS off and no more problems, but we do have good power at my home, about 3 or more months between short power losses.


Did you have your modem and router on a UPS too? If not, that was more likely the issue. Odd though that it wouldn't reconnect.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

michael1248 said:


> Wondering how many of my TiVo friends utilize one, two or all of these devices?


I put all electronics on a UPS. Just a std unit, with plenty of power. This includes the router & modem, all my TiVos and the TVs.

A quick mental inventory tells me I have 5 UPSs.



lessd said:


> I know some people have UPS units on all their electronics including TiVo, I have been using TiVo units from 2001 and never used a UPS except once, and had and a bad experience, the power went out for about 10 seconds and the TiVo did not re-boot but the cable went out in that 10 second time, when the cable came back on it did not synchronize with the TiVo, so I had to re-boot the TiVo myself, took the UPS off and no more problems, but we do have good power at my home, about 3 or more months between short power losses.


I'll make a WAG this isn't the average person's experience. So every three months your TiVo reboots? If it's during a recording, that would irritate me enough to go spend $50 for a UPS that will last 5 years. Less than a buck a month beats having to hunt down the interrupted show.

We get blips all the time, probably once a month or so (and those are just the ones I'm aware of). Even if it's only 2-3-4 seconds, that's enough for various electrical devices to lose their status. Clocks to reset, appliance clocks, etc. But my TiVo keeps plugging away.

Sure beats waiting 3-5 minutes while a DVR reboots, eh?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

GoodSpike said:


> Did you have your modem and router on a UPS too? If not, that was more likely the issue. Odd though that it wouldn't reconnect.


The router and modem was on the UPS but the street system went down, no internet, no cable, when the cable came back on the TiVo tuner could not sync. with the cable signal, I don't know what the cable signal was as it came back on, but with the TiVo re-boot it would not be important. With the UPS on the TiVo the TiVo tuners were on the whole time. This was just my experience, so now I don't use UPS on my TiVo and never had that problem, but my computer/modem/router are on a UPS.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

astrohip said:


> I put all electronics on a UPS. Just a std unit, with plenty of power. This includes the router & modem, all my TiVos and the TVs.
> 
> A quick mental inventory tells me I have 5 UPSs.
> 
> ...


If I got blips once a month, that would be a different story, and your street cable most likely does not go out as most cable co.s have their own back up, in my case the street cable went out. I get blips about 3 to 4 times a year, never been any problem, if over 16 sec. I do have a back up generator. In October 2011 my power went out for 7 days, my generator did the job, got cable back in about 5 days.


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## michael1248 (Feb 14, 2002)

Thanks for all the replies. A lot of good food for thought.

I am still looking for a "component type looking" UPS/Surge Protector because my setup (Receiver/TiVo/DVD Player) will be located on a shelf attached to a wall.


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## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

I've had one of these at the front end of my living room arsenal since 1990 - the same unit. Never had a piece of equipment fry behind it. I don't use anything for brown or black-outs: if the power goes out, it's out. But the Tripp Lite gets triggered daily with fluctuations (you can hear it taking a hit), and it's done its job protecting my gear:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...p lite 1200&qid=1451318851&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

The Cyberpower CST135XLU 1350va UPS at Costco for $99.95 is a steal. You get a power line conditioner, surge-spike protector, and UPS all in one unit for only $99.95. Almost worth paying the Costco membership by itself and if you buy two definitely worth the membership cost.

1350va and uses two 12v SLA (user replaceable) batteries, has 5 battery backed up and 5 surge-spike only AC sockets, has *AVR* (automatic voltage regulation), RJ11-RJ45 phone-data surge-spike protection, coax surge-spike protection, two convenient surge-spike protected USB sockets on the front, and a decent warranty. Nifty LCD that provides all the info you'd want and shuts off after a few seconds so it doesn't distract you. LCD comes on if the unit senses a problem.

Twenty plus years in the consumer electronics and computer industry and I always use UPS units and NEVER had a single power related failure. I've recorded some shows on the DVR when the power had failed then I gracefully shut down the electronics. I even use a UPS on the pellet stove in the living room that heats the house.

I average 3-4 years battery life, which I consider more than reasonable, then I buy replacement batteries on Amazon and get free shipping... batteries are heavy (costly) to ship.

JMO


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## zerdian1 (Apr 19, 2015)

did not find that unit on costco.com
did find only 3 cyber power UPS units. this is the closest one:
Multifunction LCD Display, PowerPanel® Personal EditionCyberPower 1400VA / 840Watts Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) for $134.99.

I have elected to go with 2 independent UPS units. One for my Modem, Router, Disk Backup and Cell Phone Mini Tower. One for my TiVo.
CyberPower CP550SLG Standby UPS 550VA 330W Compact
Sold by: Amazon.com LLC for $51.95.
The second one is for my WeaKnees 12TB TiVo Roamio Pro which uses 350VA.
(These UPS Units are on order and not yet installed).

This morning, FPL Power company installed my home Surge Protection at my Meter, so they cut power at 8:30AM. The morning shows (Today, GMA, ...) which are recorded at 7AM everyday.
The segment from 7AM to 8:30AM were all lost when the power was interrupted. They picked up at 8:40. I thought they would be recorded in a second segment like when there was a power interruption in the past.

I have already installed Tripp-Lite Surge Protectors on my Apple 5K iMac DeskTop Computer and my 5 TiVo's and HDTVs.


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## zerdian1 (Apr 19, 2015)

did not find that unit on costco.com
did find only 3 cyber power UPS units. this is the closest one:
Multifunction LCD Display, PowerPanel® Personal EditionCyberPower 1400VA / 840Watts Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) for $134.99.

I have elected to go with 2 independent UPS units. 
CyberPower CP550SLG Standby UPS 550VA 330W Compact
Sold by: Amazon.com LLC for $51.95.
One UPS for my Modem, Router, Disk Backup and Cell Phone Mini Tower.
The second UPS for my WeaKnees 12TB TiVo Roamio Pro which uses 350VA.

This morning, FPL Power company installed my home Surge Protection at my Meter, so they cut power at 8:30AM. The morning shows( Today, GMA, ...) recorded at 7AM were all lost when the power was interrupted. They picked up at 8:40. I thought they would be recorded in a second segment like when there was a power interruption in the past.

I have already installed NEW Tripp-Lite Surge Protectors on my computer and my 5 TiVo's and HDTVs.


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## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

I even have a APC battery back up on my power recliner and reclining sofa.
Ever fall asleep reclined and wake up and the power has gone out? A guy could throw his back out climbing out of one of those things.

Sent from my LG G4 using Tapatalk


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

zerdian1,

I have never seen the Cyberpower CST135XLU UPS listed on costco.com 
May be a marketed unit just for Costco and only sold in the warehouses.

The Cyberpower CP550SLG you chose does not have AVR (automatic voltage regulation) which is an important feature.

Regardless of the insurance offered by surge-spike protector manufacturers, which might be easy or difficult to collect on, there's the nightmare of replacing the hardware and data you might lose. If you value your Mac put it on a UPS. Inexpensive surge-spike protectors use MOVs for protection https://www.radioshack.com/products/surge-protector. Hardly what I'd bet my equipment on, but that's just my opinion after 20+ years of using UPS units and never having a power related failure.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Joe01880 said:


> I even have a UPC on my power recliner and reclining sofa.
> Ever fall asleep reclined and wake up and the power has gone out? A guy could throw his back out climbing out of one of those things.


Now THAT is a good idea. I don't think I can get out of mine without winding up on the floor where it can be a crisis to get up. 
I actually have too many UPS so I can spare one to be on the command bridge where I also have lotsa tablets.


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## redmed (Aug 31, 2015)

I have used a Tripp Lite Line Conditioner (basically a huge capacitor) to protect my TV and receiver for years. During a power outage while I was running my Honda generator it stumbled and damaged many things in my home. All the wall warts, dish washer, answering machine, garage door opener, just about anything plugged in except the refrigerator and water well pump. Nothing connected to the line conditioner was effected not even a wall wart. It took me almost a month to replace and get parts to repair the fried electronic stuff. I don't trust that generator anymore so I bought a Honda 2000 watt induction generator. We have been using it to power our refrigerator, fan and a small bedroom TV since. Since we have no power to the water pump, house lights and most importantly internet using the little generator my wife has been my case about getting a new large generator or fixing the large Honda generator. So I just recently installed a whole house surge protector in my fuse panel. Next power outage I'm going to try using that large Honda generator again.


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

redmed said:


> I don't trust that generator anymore so I bought a Honda 2000 watt induction generator.


I assume you mean inverter generator. A lot of electronic devices are better with inverter generators, including furnaces, which is probably one of the main reasons that people use generators.

I don't think there's any reason you couldn't set up two transfer switches, one connected to your higher power devices like the well pump and the other to your electronic devices. That would be a pretty slick setup, and would also be economical since you could limit the running of the large generator. Edit: If you do that I'd put the refrigerator on the inverter too--they don't use that much power and would be expensive to repair.


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## redmed (Aug 31, 2015)

GoodSpike said:


> I assume you mean inverter generator. A lot of electronic devices are better with inverter generators, including furnaces, which is probably one of the main reasons that people use generators.
> 
> I don't think there's any reason you couldn't set up two transfer switches, one connected to your higher power devices like the well pump and the other to your electronic devices. That would be a pretty slick setup, and would also be economical since you could limit the running of the large generator. Edit: If you do that I'd put the refrigerator on the inverter too--they don't use that much power and would be expensive to repair.


Yes it's a Honda EU2000i inverter generator. I do like it. It's much quieter than my other generator and runs 12 hrs on a gallon of gas. The only thing I dislike is draining the gas, which is a pain. I had a extra fuel shutoff switch that I tried to install in it but couldn't. I don't remember why probably due to lack of space for the switch. I'm going have to revisit that.

I have been running the refrigerator on it and at times our microwave. When the microwave is running the generator really speeds up.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

redmed said:


> The only thing I dislike is draining the gas, which is a pain.


I had a Honda EU2000 and it is a great little generator but you've run into it's main shortcoming. That model uses a pulse fuel pump and draining the gas is a real PITA and running the carb dry is not possible cause shutting off the fuel shuts off the ignition.

Look at the Yamaha EF2000iS which is comparable in quality, reliability, output, quiet, and much easier to live with than the Honda. No fuel pump and a real gas shut-off with separate ignition switch that allow you to run the carb dry. Has a float bowl drain screw that allows you to completely drain the fuel tank through a hose on the carb float bowl.

Traded my Honda for a Yamaha and have been much happier.


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## michael1248 (Feb 14, 2002)

Still looking for a component looking piece of equipment that would sit on a shelf and all the plugs would be in the back, out of sight.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

michael1248 said:


> Still looking for a component looking piece of equipment that would sit on a shelf and all the plugs would be in the back, out of sight.


Go to Amazon and put UPS in the search box. I use Cyberpower and APC. Any UPS is better than no UPS. Also, you can connect an outlet strip to the UPS if it would simplify your wiring. It is not a good idea, and a waste of money, to use a surge strip.


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## tivolocity (Aug 12, 2002)

Component-style UPSs aren't as common as they used to be. CyberPower, Monster and others used to make them. I'd maybe take a look at Panamax. I'm sure there are others out there.


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## cosmicvoid (Oct 13, 2013)

michael1248 said:


> Still looking for a component looking piece of equipment that would sit on a shelf and all the plugs would be in the back, out of sight.


Be careful to pay attention to the weight. Batteries are quite heavy, and it could add 20 to 40 lbs to your wall shelf.


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## michael1248 (Feb 14, 2002)

Thanks! Excellent point and one I actually considered. I plan on using tap-cons to secure the shelf into the concrete behind the wall.


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

redmed said:


> Yes it's a Honda EU2000i inverter generator. I do like it. It's much quieter than my other generator and runs 12 hrs on a gallon of gas. The only thing I dislike is draining the gas, which is a pain. I had a extra fuel shutoff switch that I tried to install in it but couldn't. I don't remember why probably due to lack of space for the switch. I'm going have to revisit that.
> 
> I have been running the refrigerator on it and at times our microwave. When the microwave is running the generator really speeds up.





just4tivo said:


> I had a Honda EU2000 and it is a great little generator but you've run into it's main shortcoming. That model uses a pulse fuel pump and draining the gas is a real PITA and running the carb dry is not possible cause shutting off the fuel shuts off the ignition.
> 
> Look at the Yamaha EF2000iS which is comparable in quality, reliability, output, quiet, and much easier to live with than the Honda. No fuel pump and a real gas shut-off with separate ignition switch that allow you to run the carb dry. Has a float bowl drain screw that allows you to completely drain the fuel tank through a hose on the carb float bowl.
> 
> Traded my Honda for a Yamaha and have been much happier.


The other option is to convert it to tri-fuel operation so it can also run on propane or NG. I have a 3000 watt Yamaha that is converted. I had to regap the plug to run on NG, but not propane. Other than that, it works great.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

GoodSpike said:


> The other option is to convert it to tri-fuel operation so it can also run on propane or NG. I have a 3000 watt Yamaha that is converted. I had to regap the plug to run on NG, but not propane. Other than that, it works great.


Yea, there the tri-fuel conversion but IMO every one I looked at is a kluge with a big regulator hanging on with fragile connections in vulnerable places. and voids the manufacturer's warranty. One company will tell you it doesn't void the warranty IF you remove everything before bringing the gen to the dealer for warranty repair, but dealer's aren't stupid and can easily tell the gen has been tri-fuel modified. If you're just gonna set your gen and leave it or be able to easily roll it from the garage to the NG pipe then that's one thing, but the Yamaha EF3000 (non electric start) series at 136 pounds dry is hardly a portable generator. With the Honda EU2000i and Yamaha EF2000iS we're talking under 50 pounds wet. The Yamaha EF2000iS got my money for a more well thought out design especially the separate fuel and ignition shut off.


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

just4tivo said:


> Yea, there the tri-fuel conversion but IMO every one I looked at is a kluge with a big regulator hanging on with fragile connections in vulnerable places. and voids the manufacturer's warranty. One company will tell you it doesn't void the warranty IF you remove everything before bringing the gen to the dealer for warranty repair, but dealer's aren't stupid and can easily tell the gen has been tri-fuel modified.


I don't really think warranty is a big concern because you don't typically use a generator that much. I have only about 40 hours of use on mine over 4 years. Also, I suspect that they would need to link the use of NG to the problem. But if that is a concern you could wait for the warranty to expire.

I don't think the setup is that fragile. It is a bit bulky though. But the advantages of not needing gasoline or dealing with gasoline storage are huge.

I do agree the smaller units are much more portable. One advantage of those is that you can link two of them together to double their output when necessary, but save fuel when not. I wouldn't necessarily recommend that with a NG setup, but it would work well with either gasoline or propane.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

GoodSpike said:


> I don't really think warranty is a big concern because you don't typically use a generator that much.


You'll change your mind if you have to pay for an out of warranty repair at today's shop labor rates and retail parts prices. An engine problem can easily cost near the price of a small gen to repair.



GoodSpike said:


> I suspect that they would need to link the use of NG to the problem.


You modify the fuel and intake system and most anything that goes wrong can be blamed on that.

Now let's get back to TiVo...


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