# Random Reboots



## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

One of my premieres constantly reboots. I don't think it's a software issue because my other unit is just fine. Both are connected via MoCa.

It reboots even when I am not actually using it. Many times it happens in the middle of recording and I have noticed it reboot even when nothing is recording and the TV is turned off.

Is it probably the hard drive? It's the newer unit of the two so I am very disappointed. It's only about 18 months old. 

Could it be something besides the hard drive?


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## pninen (Jun 26, 2003)

There are several threads here with lots of people reporting this problem, so no I don't think its your hardware. Its got to be software.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Test the hardrive with Kickstart 54, and see if it passes.
http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-kickstart-hd-tests.php

All my Tivos have been rebooting the last 10 days or so,
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10032704#post10032704


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## pninen (Jun 26, 2003)

I contacted TiVo, and their customer service seems to be unaware of a pattern of users experiencing random reboots. This came as a shock to me, because I see so many people reporting this problem here.

I suggested they read tivocommunity.com to see many examples of users with this problem, but they did not respond to my suggestion.

Here's their response. It is frustratingly script-like, and doesn't seem to address the problem. The notion that signal strength should cause a computer to reboot is nonsensical.



> Thank you for contacting TiVo Customer Support. I would be glad to help you with your rebooting issues. There could be a couple reason for your TiVo device rebooting, your cable signal could be too high, if you have it on a power strip the power supply going to the TiVo box could be too low, even loose connections could cause your TiVo device to reboot. Do you notice that this happens when you are watching a recorded program or in Live TV? Do you notice that this happens on a particular channel? What I would like to do is have you check the DVR Diagnostics Screen. I will need you to start a recording to lock a tuner in place. I will need the requested information for tuner 0 through tuner 3, to switch between tuners you will want to press channel down on the TiVo Remote.
> 
> From TiVo Central > Settings & Messages > Account & System Info > DVR Diagnostics
> 
> ...


I promptly responded with the numbers they asked for.

I STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT ANYONE HAVING THE RANDOM REBOOT PROBLEM FILE A SUPPORT REQUEST ON THE TIVO WEB SITE. Until they have large numbers of users contacting them, they won't get it.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

pninen said:


> I contacted TiVo, and their customer service seems to be unaware of a pattern of users experiencing random reboots. This came as a shock to me, because I see so many people reporting this problem here.


TiVo Support is clueless and would not admit it if they knew. I once asked TiVo Support to contact Margret and get the info from her, since she was already aware of the issue, Support said they had no way to contact her? Strange, since I can email her directly.

I send all my legitimate requests for support directly to Margret Schmidt (TiVo's Chief Design Officer and Vice President of Design & Engineering)
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/member.php?u=198507
https://twitter.com/tivodesign

She usually responds right away.


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## dcstager (Feb 16, 2002)

Mine started rebooting too. I was watching baseball on MLB and I thought it might be related to that. It's been very reliable for almost two years.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Margret responded to my email and has turned on additional logging on my TiVos. So hopefully they will find the issue.

My Roamio Pro rebooted again today, Sun, March 9, 2014 @ 1:12 PM - Arizona Time (PDT) - 8:12 PM (UTC)
No one was using the DVR at the time, TV was off.

The Roamio Pro had already uploaded the logs,
Last Service Connection was 1:33 PM - Arizona Time (PST)
Last VCM Connection was 1:37 PM - Arizona Time (PST)


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## ByteRider (Mar 10, 2014)

*chuckle* ... just joined the forum because I was looking for anyone else having the same problem. My Premiere XL4 just started to do the random reboot/restart thing on Saturday (could have been earlier, but that's when I first noticed it).

Forum won't let me send an email to Margret because I have to have 10 posts ... so I'm just going to lurk on this thread and would appreciate it if there is any more info if is could be posted.

Many thanks.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

ByteRider said:


> *chuckle* ... just joined the forum because I was looking for anyone else having the same problem. My Premiere XL4 just started to do the random reboot/restart thing on Saturday (could have been earlier, but that's when I first noticed it)


Unless it was earlier, with high probability it's an unconnected problem. You might want to do a kickstart testing of your drives (google TiVo kickstart).

A back-of-the-envelope calculation says that over 100 retail TiVos die every single day due to disk failures. (900,000 disks in TiVos * 5% annual failure rate = 45,000 disk failures per year.)

What makes the CoxInPHX and the other failures stand out is their common start date with mulitple TiVos in a household starting to fail. That makes it sound like a bad guide data problem (I'm still suspicious of the daylight savings time timing.)

For those interested in disk failure rates, Backblaze has a nice article I hadn't seen before with new data at http://blog.backblaze.com/2013/11/12/how-long-do-disk-drives-last/


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## jwbelcher (Nov 13, 2007)

CrispyCritter said:


> What makes the CoxInPHX and the other failures stand out is their common start date with mulitple TiVos in a household starting to fail. That makes it sound like a bad guide data problem (I'm still suspicious of the daylight savings time timing.)
> 
> For those interested in disk failure rates, Backblaze has a nice article I hadn't seen before with new data at http://blog.backblaze.com/2013/11/12/how-long-do-disk-drives-last/


The other interesting thing is that CoxInPHX, nooneuknow, and myself are all on drives less than 6 months old. Its hard for me to think we all had drive drive issues (especially nooneuknows multiple roamios).

I've been watching GC, indexing and service connect, but haven't found a relationship yet. I'm waiting it out to see if it resolves itself before running the guided setup again to download new guide data.

Based on nooneuknow's comment about library building, I've deleted a few series having 60+ recording to see if it helps. My last reboot was early Sunday morning before we got up. There was some recordings going on at that time, but given TiVo constantly writes to disk, I don't know if that's relevant.

I sent Margret another email, but haven't heard back yet. I'd like to avoid RMA if at all possible. Does anyone know if they're replacing Roamios with refurbished units yet?


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## TiVoMargret (Feb 3, 2008)

We found an interaction between the box and the service that was causing some random reboots. We made a change to the service last night that should resolve the problem. Please make a connection to the TiVo Service.

If you experience more than one reboot after making the connection to the TiVo Service, please email me your TSN with the subject "Random Reboots". ([email protected])

I am very sorry for the trouble!
--Margret


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## Sixto (Sep 16, 2005)

Thank you!


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Recent random reboot problem (multiple platforms) - TiVoMargret responds!



NotVeryWitty said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10039469#post10039469


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10039469#post10039469



TiVoMargret said:


> We found an interaction between the box and the service that was causing some random reboots. We made a change to the service last night that should resolve the problem. Please make a connection to the TiVo Service.
> 
> If you experience more than one reboot after making the connection to the TiVo Service, please email me your TSN with the subject "Random Reboots". ([email protected])
> 
> ...


Great to hear!

However, if this "service interaction issue" causing the reboots caused any corruption of the databases/structures as a result of the primary cause, my advice in this post http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10038994#post10038994 may clean up any lingering issues.

If us TiVo users didn't have TiVoMargret, this issue would likely be repeatedly denied by the TiVo CS Reps, as even existing, go on for months, and we'd all be stuck doing the CSR scripted support dance, which usually includes finding any way to blame the problem on anything except TiVo (the product and/or the company).


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Email sent. Thank you Margret.


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## dcstager (Feb 16, 2002)

I'm still getting random reboots, so far only while using the MLB app. The MLB service is so cool, I'd hate to lose it to keep the TiVo stable.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Let us know what happens after you email Margret.


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## Sixto (Sep 16, 2005)

Nice article (TiVos Margret Schmidt on balancing executive role with being a nerd parent): http://peninsulapress.com/2014/03/17/margret-schmidt-tivo/


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

jrtroo said:


> Let us know what happens after you email Margret.


So far, she has not returned a response to me.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Sixto said:


> Nice article (TiVos Margret Schmidt on balancing executive role with being a nerd parent): http://peninsulapress.com/2014/03/17/margret-schmidt-tivo/


I was looking forward to reading it... Then I did, and kept hoping the article would soon deviate from trying to force her into saying something like "Yeah, I guess being a woman is tough" or "Yeah, I feel discriminated against and that my pay is unfair, because I'm a woman".

I'm was surprised at the tiny amount related to TiVo, and that the interviewer didn't ask if she prefers winged feminine products over others.

It was like the intent was for a title of "One woman's struggle with unemployment, and finding a job, as a woman, and a mother". It was a very leading-question interview, and I don't think the interviewer got what they were fishing/hoping for.

This line stands out: "If what we have created is enough better than the last thing our customers had, then ship it." Um, OK  That sounds really close to "If it's better than what we already were selling, and our customers already have, by just enough margin, go ahead and ship it", IMO.

Meh... I'd rank the article as un-interesting, and very scope limited (intentionally, IMO). One of the most boring reads in recent memory, IMO.

That aside, I'm grateful she works for TiVo. She's likely the ONLY reason I'm not always mad at TiVo, or feeling let-down by TiVo, on a daily basis, anymore. She's, IMO, the only decent and reliable source of news, support, and truthful disclosure of TiVo problems (which are TiVo's own problems), which the TiVo call center still usually proves either clueless about, or deliberately ignorant about, and a dead-end for resolution of them.

I still think she should be in charge of creating a better mainstream support center solution for TiVo, and should pink-slip the current provider for their support call center.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

MPSAN said:


> So far, she has not returned a response to me.


Just in case, rather than making assumptions on what/how you communicated...

1. Did you provide the TSNs of your units in the email, and use the subject title she requested?

2. Are you aware that she's nearly always flooded with TSNs to process, for an unknown number of issues, and may not have the time to reply to every email?

I usually send my TSNs, and the specifics of the problem, making sure I put the subject she requests in as the email subject.

If I don't see any improvement, or continue to have problems after a couple days, I do the follow up, using the same subject, again include TSNs, and politely note it is a follow-up to an unresolved problem.

I also make sure I do anything she requests, like making service connections, rebooting manually, etc.

Believe it, or not, I actually keep my emails to her short, to the point, and polite. It would be an assumption, that everybody understand her workload, and how she goes above, any beyond, her job title (and other things).


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

nooneuknow said:


> Just in case, rather than making assumptions on what/how you communicated...
> 
> 1. Did you provide the TSNs of your units in the email, and use the subject title she requested?
> 
> ...


I can answer YES to all that you suggested.


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## joecm (Aug 9, 2003)

This is very interesting. I too was having random reboots working my way through a variety of suggestions from Tivo Support. I spent a bunch of time Attentuating my signal, even though I could not believe that was an issue (SNR:36/37 was out of range, but my signal strength was low 90's) Anyway, I attenuated down (SNR: 33/34, signal 85) and it rebooted again, so I ordered a different splitter. It took about a week to get here. Weird thing is I can't remember the last reboot. I'm thinking maybe this software update fixed mine. I certainly hope it has. Thanks for fixing this!


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

TiVoMargret said:


> We found an interaction between the box and the service that was causing some random reboots. We made a change to the service last night that should resolve the problem. Please make a connection to the TiVo Service.
> 
> If you experience more than one reboot after making the connection to the TiVo Service, please email me your TSN with the subject "Random Reboots". ([email protected])
> 
> ...


Link to TiVoMargret's post: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10039469#post10039469

I didn't even have to email her, as a scheduled service connection, and my own routine "when I don't know what else to do" procedure, has stopped any of my three base Roamios from rebooting. I ran all the KS54 SMART tests first, as well as running all available SMART tests using a PC and the drive manufacturer's tools.

My added routine is described in this post, and has been updated, as of now: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10038994#post10038994


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## dcstager (Feb 16, 2002)

The MLB app definitely causes a reboot on mine. Using 30 second skip seems to be problematic. I'll have to file some kind of bug report because I like the MLB app a lot and use it a lot.


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## beejay (Feb 3, 2001)

I've had random reboots since getting my Premier in November 2011.

It's been getting better in the last few months, but I've been leery of making many season pass changes while watching TiVo since it seems if it gets too busy it would reboot. (Or sometimes it would just not respond to the remote for 15-30 minutes and then worked OK.)

But my last spontaneous reboot was 3/12 so I'm hoping this is finally fixed.

(Drat. Hopes raised and then dashed. Just had a spontaneous reboot. E-mail sent.)


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=517829

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=517733

Any Premiere owners wondering what's going on? Or, have the Premieres been spared this time?


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

nooneuknow said:


> *Thread BUMP!*
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=517829
> 
> ...


You do realize that "Duplicate posts or "bumping" of threads is not permitted."? Or is there some reason that rules do not apply to you?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumrules.html

(Quicklinks/forum rules near the top of every page).


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

Two days after I got the Spring Update my bedroom TiVo rebooted twice with in two days of each other. I did contact Margret and she looked into my logs and she concluded that it was some kind of power issue.
It turned out to be correct as I discovered after some testing that the battery in my Tripplite UPS is getting weak. If I get a screen on my TV with a lot of white in it the battery side of the UPS will shutoff and then reset after the TV and TiVo lose power. I then did a battery test with the TiVo and TV on and it reset again. I ordered a new battery and it will be delivered on Tuesday.

Also I had one of those plug in air fresheners with night lite fail in my basement at the same time I was having this issue. That tripped the GFCI receptacle circuit in my basement and may have caused the upstairs UPS to trip and caused on of the resets. It is ironic that all these issues popped up at the time I got the spring update and it made it look like the update caused my problems. Go figure. I also have three other Tripplite UPS in my home but all have newer batteries and all pass the battery test. I have two identical TVs, 8G Pioneer Kuros, and two identical TiVos, Premiere 4s. The two other UPS support my two Windows 7 desktop PCs.

I am finding that the UPS batteries are lasting about 2 to 3 years when the become to weak to support the devices hooked into them so if you are using a UPS and the batteries are getting old replace them first before moving on to other trouble shooting issues.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Jed1 said:


> Two days after I got the Spring Update my bedroom TiVo rebooted twice with in two days of each other. I did contact Margret and she looked into my logs and she concluded that it was some kind of power issue.
> It turned out to be correct as I discovered after some testing that the battery in my Tripplite UPS is getting weak. If I get a screen on my TV with a lot of white in it the battery side of the UPS will shutoff and then reset after the TV and TiVo lose power. I then did a battery test with the TiVo and TV on and it reset again. I ordered a new battery and it will be delivered on Tuesday.
> 
> Also I had one of those plug in air fresheners with night lite fail in my basement at the same time I was having this issue. That tripped the GFCI receptacle circuit in my basement and may have caused the upstairs UPS to trip and caused on of the resets. It is ironic that all these issues popped up at the time I got the spring update and it made it look like the update caused my problems. Go figure. I also have three other Tripplite UPS in my home but all have newer batteries and all pass the battery test. I have two identical TVs, 8G Pioneer Kuros, and two identical TiVos, Premiere 4s. The two other UPS support my two Windows 7 desktop PCs.
> ...


Already checked that this is not the case, in my situation. I also have two on the same UPS, and one Roamio runs solidly, while the other is running the opposite of solidly.

Good data point to share, though. It may help somebody else.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

CrispyCritter said:


> You do realize that "Duplicate posts or "bumping" of threads is not permitted."? Or is there some reason that rules do not apply to you?
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumrules.html
> 
> (Quicklinks/forum rules near the top of every page).


There's a difference between bumping a thread just because you feel it's not getting enough attention, versus the problem coming back, after going away for a period of time. The latter is the reason why I did it. If it's just isolated to a few people, I'll soon know that, and won't be doing the former.

We have new members going around creating multiple new threads for every single thought that comes into their mind, no matter how many perfectly good threads on each one already exist, as well as people who should know better, who also create new threads. Creating new threads when ones already exist is also a no-no.

I took the time, and made the effort, to find existing threads, which had relevancy, and used them.

There's also plenty of long-timers who will bump threads, especially polls, to keep them going. I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying it's happening.

Just because I said "thread BUMP!", doesn't make it a true thread bump. I feel any reasonable moderator will see that I'm actually doing a better job of adhering to rules than many newcomers, and long-timers, alike.

If you don't see it that way, you are entitled to your opinion. I'm not going to make a habit out of it, and have already revived the appropriate threads. If this is another February/March scenario, I might be helping a great many people, if this is the tip of the iceberg. If not, I still feel I did things by the spirit of the law (TCF rules).

I may be saving people from unnecessarily buying new hard drives, wiping their drives and losing everything, or fearing that their TiVo has started failing, and is about to become a paperweight.

I'm not making all this effort, and doing what I'm doing, just for me. My conscience is clear. Hopefully, if there are people looking for answers to problems like this, they'll now easily find the pre-existing threads, rather than creating new ones.

EDIT/ADD: To address the allegation of duplicate postings, I'll point out that there are multiple TiVo platforms that can be affected by issues with the TiVo Service data, and/or corrupted TiVo accounts. A great degree of why I did things the way I did them was to point out existing threads, rather than having to post duplicate posts in each one of them. I was hoping to pick one thread as my home base, and simply post links to that home base thread, in the other threads, when it seemed appropriate. I can't please 100% of people 100% of the time. At some point, I may just have to make my own thread, declare it open for all platforms, and hope for the best. When problems exist cross-platform, how else can data be shared, without some duplication and "bumping" going on? (rhetorical question). If I were only doing this for myself, and not trying to help anybody/everybody, it would be easy to not do things the way I've done them, which you apparently have an issue with.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

nooneuknow said:


> Already checked that this is not the case, in my situation. I also have two on the same UPS, and one Roamio runs solidly, while the other is running the opposite of solidly.
> 
> Good data point to share, though. It way help somebody else.


I figure I would post my experience as I thought I was having this reboot issue as it started 2 days after I got the spring update.

I have to agree with you on the double and cross posting as there is way to many threads started on this forum for the same problem. I stated a while back that if you have *ANY ISSUE* with the Premiere and Roamio platforms after an update to *PLEASE* post them in the thread that TiVo Margret starts. This way she can easily check the two threads.
The Mods should delete theses threads and merge them into the update threads to eliminate further confusion.

I decided that I was better off asking Margret directly about my issue as it pointed me in the right direction to resolve my issue. The advice I got on this forum is to assume the hard drive was failing and I should go through all the unnecessary steps to trouble shoot the hard drive, which would have not solved my problem and probably created a new one.


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