# MOCA Networking Adapter



## ghuido (May 9, 2007)

Hello Everyone

I was thinking of switching out from Wireless AP Bridges to connect all my TVIO's and switching over to MOCA Adapters.

What specific adapter are people using now? I looked up the NEtgear MOCA Adapter and it appears to be discontinued.

Thanks


----------



## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

I use old actiontec mi424wr routers for verizon fios available on ebay and I convert them into moca bridges/access points using the steps outlined at dslreports. See http://www.dslreports.com/faq/15984.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I bought one of these...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008C1JC4O

Seems to work pretty well with the built in MoCa inside my Elite.

Dan


----------



## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

I also paired an ActionTec ECB2500C, connected by ethernet to my router, coax in from a splitter and coax out to a TV, with the remote Elite's MoCa adapter. And then I ran ethernet out from the remote Elite to a switch and on to a S3 and a Sony BlueRay player. Works great and with better performance than the 5GHz bridge I used to use.
The Comcast coax coming into my house is split at the router three ways, to the ActionTec, a Comcast Gateway and a TiVo Premiere. At the Elite's end the coax is split between the Elite and the S3.


----------



## SNJpage1 (May 25, 2006)

I am not familiar with this device and would like to ask a question about it. It sounds as if it piggy backs the ethernet signal onto the a working coax. Does it add a channel to the TV signal as a signal injector does when you want to add a private channel to a coax signal or does it pick a freq that is out of the range that coax uses for tv signal


----------



## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

It uses separate frequencies which don't conflict with the cable TV channels or the cable phone serivce. More than two adapters can be used for multiple rooms. MoCa makes streaming work so well it's very close to feeling like remote recordings are playing from your local TiVo. My ethernet cable from the MoCa adapter to the router is Cat 6 cable since that tranfer is well over 100Mbps.


----------



## ghuido (May 9, 2007)

Can you connect the ECB2500C to a swith to enable multiple network devices (Wii, Blue Ray and Tivo) to run through the MOCA Adapter?


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Yes. It's just a bridge that converts Ethernet to coax. Think of it as a way to convert your coax cables into Ethernet cables. Anything that would run across the Ethernet cable will now run across coax instead. 

Dan


----------



## ghuido (May 9, 2007)

What is this specific limitation? 

" Network Size 15 Devices (including NC) "

Is that 15 MOCA Adpaters or only 15 Network Devices attached through MOCA?


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

That's 15 MoCa adapters connected to the coax. You can have as many Ethernet devices as you want connected to the bridge.

Dan


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

SNJpage1 said:


> I am not familiar with this device and would like to ask a question about it. It sounds as if it piggy backs the ethernet signal onto the a working coax. Does it add a channel to the TV signal as a signal injector does when you want to add a private channel to a coax signal or does it pick a freq that is out of the range that coax uses for tv signal


It's sort of a DSL style approach.

It uses the frequencies above the frequencies the wire involved uses for what it was originally intended to carry.

So DSL uses frequencies above 3,000Hz and MoCA uses frequencies above 1,000,000,000Hz.

Also known as 3kHz and 1GHz.

Cable modems use chunks of bandwidth the same size as television channels (6MHz), but at frequencies below where the TV channels start (usually 54MHz).

I do not know if MoCA uses discreet 6MHz slots or not.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

unitron said:


> I do not know if MoCA uses discreet 6MHz slots or not.


No. MoCa is based on the HomePlug standard which uses mimo technology similar to 802.11N. Cable modems use DOCSIS which uses a different method to multiplex multiple frequencies into a single pipe.

Dan


----------



## smoberly (Jul 6, 2004)

So...a recent furniture move and internet service provider change has me reconfiguring my connectivity needs....and frankly, wireless streaming between my Premieres has been unsuccessful...so I plan to kill two birds with one stone.

I'll need three MOCA adapters...one at the router, and 1 each at the Premiere locations...right? 

I am pricing adapters on eBay and my question is....is a MOCA adapter a MOCA adapter? Do I need three of the same type/model or if I find three different models/brands on eBay, will they all be able to communicate with each other?


----------



## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

smoberly said:


> So...a recent furniture move and internet service provider change has me reconfiguring my connectivity needs....and frankly, wireless streaming between my Premieres has been unsuccessful...so I plan to kill two birds with one stone.
> 
> I'll need three MOCA adapters...one at the router, and 1 each at the Premiere locations...right?
> 
> I am pricing adapters on eBay and my question is....is a MOCA adapter a MOCA adapter? Do I need three of the same type/model or if I find three different models/brands on eBay, will they all be able to communicate with each other?


brand should not matter, but don't use the directv variant (sometimes called DECA) which is not interchangeable. Also there are ways to configure Verizon FIOS routers (usually actiontec MI424WR) to act in place of a MOCA adapter. See http://www.dslreports.com/faq/15984.


----------



## eDbolson (Oct 25, 2001)

smoberly said:


> So...a recent furniture move and internet service provider change has me reconfiguring my connectivity needs....and frankly, wireless streaming between my Premieres has been unsuccessful...so I plan to kill two birds with one stone.
> 
> I'll need three MOCA adapters...one at the router, and 1 each at the Premiere locations...right?
> 
> I am pricing adapters on eBay and my question is....is a MOCA adapter a MOCA adapter? Do I need three of the same type/model or if I find three different models/brands on eBay, will they all be able to communicate with each other?


I believe any MOCA adapter will work with others, as it is a standard. If you have Premier 4 or XL4 (Elite), it already has MOCA. Otherwise, you are correct - you will need a MOCA adapter at each location you have Coax but no ethernet wiring.


----------



## csell (Apr 16, 2007)

Might not be the best thread to ask the question, but I have a question regarding the installation and general understanding of a MOCA...

My setup at home is this - in our office/spare bedroom, a single coxial cable comes in from the outside. That goes into a cable modem. Coming out of that is the ethernet cable (which goes into a router but we can ignore that for this purpose). Now here is where I'm getting confused. I believe the ehternet coming out of the cable modem should go into the MOCA, correct? What now? It sounds like you then have to connect the coxial out of the MOCA to something, but what? I cannot figure this part out. I've looked at the diagrams but I can't get a grasp on that aspect of it. I totally get the part with connecting it to the Tivo, but I'm confused on the other part.

Thanks


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

MoCA turns ethernet into a signal that is carried on your coax wiring. What you basically need to understand is that the internet signal carried over coax to the cable modem has nothing to do with the MoCA signal which is also carried over coax.

You need two things for MoCA to work with a TiVo. 
1. A connection from your ethernet network to the MoCA network (MoCA adapter plugged into ethernet)
2. A connection for the TiVo (MoCA adapter plugged into ethernet on the TiVo or a TiVo with on-board MoCA)

You say the coax comes in from outside and then connects to the cable modem. Where does that coax go? If it goes to a splitter somewhere that also connects to the other rooms in your house, then you can connect a MoCA adapter to that coax, along with the cable modem, and plug ethernet from the MoCA adapter into the cable modem or router. In the other room where the TiVo is, connect a MoCA adapter to the coax, along with the TiVo, and connect ethernet from the adapter to the TiVo. (Or use a TiVo with onboard MoCA.)


----------



## csell (Apr 16, 2007)

Arcady said:


> MoCA turns ethernet into a signal that is carried on your coax wiring. What you basically need to understand is that the internet signal carried over coax to the cable modem has nothing to do with the MoCA signal which is also carried over coax.
> 
> You need two things for MoCA to work with a TiVo.
> 1. A connection from your ethernet network to the MoCA network (MoCA adapter plugged into ethernet)
> ...


I put a little bit more thought into it I believe this is the exact setup -

Main coaxial cable comes into the basement. Immediately hits a 3-way splitter. Two come out and go through the house to various TV's (might be more splitters elsewhere). The 3rd coaxial cable from the splitter immediately goes back outside and up the house and into the office/spare bedroom. It then goes into the cable modem.

Now I'm trying to figure out where the main Moca goes (I understand the one that connects to the Tivo). Will that go right after when it enters the basement and before it splits and ultimately heads up to the office. Or can it go in the office before hitting the cable modem.


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

It can go anywhere on the coax that is close enough to plug the ethernet into your router.

Be sure there are no powered/amplified splitters anywhere in the coax run where MoCA signals need to travel.


----------



## csell (Apr 16, 2007)

Arcady said:


> It can go anywhere on the coax that is close enough to plug the ethernet into your router.
> 
> Be sure there are no powered/amplified splitters anywhere in the coax run where MoCA signals need to travel.


My Tivo does use a powered amplifier. My setup is this - Coaxial comes out the wall into an amplifier then into a splitter with one going into the Tivo and the other into the cablebox. Can a workaround be:

Coaxial comes out the wall into the Moca. Ethernet comes out of the Moca and into the Tivo. Coaxial comes out of the Moca and into the amplifier and then split to the cable box and Tivo. Does that work?


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Arcady said:


> It can go anywhere on the coax that is close enough to plug the ethernet into your router.
> 
> Be sure there are no powered/amplified splitters anywhere in the coax run where MoCA signals need to travel.


My coax comes from the outside to a 8 way (two way) power splitter (+3.5DB per output), one output goes directly to the cable phone/modem that is next to my router the others goes to other rooms in my home, each of my 4 TiVos is feed directly from one of the outputs. Will the MoCA work on such a system. This amp goes back out the cable at 0Db for back commination with the cable co for such things as On Demand from a cable box and upload from the cable modem/telephone etc. Also would I need some type of blocker I see as an accessory to go with the MoCA.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

lessd said:


> My coax comes from the outside to a 8 way (two way) power splitter (+3.5DB per output), one output goes directly to the cable phone/modem that is next to my router the others goes to other rooms in my home, each of my 4 TiVos is feed directly from one of the outputs. Will the MoCA work on such a system.


It may. Indeed, the odds are fairly good it will, as long as the amp is rated for at least 1000MHz. Internally, the amp probably consists of an 8-way splitter fed by the amplifier section. If this is the case, and the splitter can handle 1000MHz or better, there is a good chance it will work.



lessd said:


> Also would I need some type of blocker I see as an accessory to go with the MoCA.


Probably not, but it won't hurt, as long as the pass-band of the filter is above the highest channel on the CATV system but at least in part below the rated bandwidth of the amp. It may very significantly reduce the nose in the MoCA spectrum, which can help a lot.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

csell said:


> My Tivo does use a powered amplifier. My setup is this - Coaxial comes out the wall into an amplifier then into a splitter with one going into the Tivo and the other into the cablebox. Can a workaround be:


Why do you think you need an amplifier? Chances are you do not, especially with only a single 2-way splitter.


----------



## csell (Apr 16, 2007)

lrhorer said:


> Why do you think you need an amplifier? Chances are you do not, especially with only a single 2-way splitter.


It was installed by the cable company because the signal strength was so weak.


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

As long as the MoCA signals are all on the amplified side of the powered splitter, it will work. I have a powered splitter where my coax enters the house. MoCA runs across the legs of that splitter just fine, but won't travel to the input side of the splitter.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I have a strange setup. I have one leg that goes under the house. In the middle of the house it is split, one side goes upstairs the other continues under the house to the living room. I have seperate amps on both sides of the splitter which are the remote powered kind that inject power into the coax. Even with it setup that way MoCa still works fine for connecting the downstairs leg to the upstairs. Going through both amplifiers. 

Dan


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

Maybe not all powered amps break MoCA. I know the ones I have do.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Arcady said:


> Maybe not all powered amps break MoCA. I know the ones I have do.


Most cable amps are now two way to handle cable modems/On Demand from a cable boxes etc., so MoCA should pass through them yes/no ??


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Both of mine are specifically two way. I had one before that was not and the cable company started calling me complaining that the cable box was not calling home properly. One of the two I have even amplifies the return channel. 

Dan


----------



## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

lessd said:


> Most cable amps are now two way to handle cable modems/On Demand from a cable boxes etc., so MoCA should pass through them yes/no ??


Ones installed by the cable company yes. Old amps bought in Radio Shack years ago maybe not.


----------



## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

My switch to Moca was easy given I have FiOS. I just bought three of the Actiontec's off of eBay and they were plug and play out of the box. Nice to know they can be reconfigured for another network, though.

Two of them have a network switch added so I have a TiVo, PS3, Wii, BluRay, etc hooked up as well and it works great.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

lessd said:


> Most cable amps are now two way to handle cable modems/On Demand from a cable boxes etc., so MoCA should pass through them yes/no ??


No.

MoCA does not allocate bandwidth on the coax the same way CATV does. In a typical CATV plant for consumer service delivery, everything from 5 MHz to about 40 MHz is designed to travel upstream from the home toward the CATV headend. Everything from about 50MHz to 450, 550, 750, 850, or 1000MHz (depending on the particular plant) carries signals downstream from the headend to the home.

In a MoCA system, there is no upstream or downstream direction. All the carriers pass from any one device to any other, and there is no meaningful definition of directionality. Furthermore, the carriers are all very high in frequency, between 500MHz and 1650MHz. Not only are the carriers very likely to be much higher in frequency than a house amplifier can carry, they will often be headed the wrong direction to be able to pass through the amplifier.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

retired_guy said:


> It uses separate frequencies which don't conflict with the cable TV channels or the cable phone serivce.


This is true, but may be a bit misleading as stated. The MoCA adapters look for CATV data on the cable before choosing a set of frequencies to use for their communications. On a 450MHz CATV system, the chosen frequencies might be as low as 500MHz. On a 1000MHz system, they will select frequencies above 1000MHz.



retired_guy said:


> My ethernet cable from the MoCa adapter to the router is Cat 6 cable since that tranfer is well over 100Mbps.


That is not required. Category 5e cable works perfectly well for 1000BaseT. In point of fact, 100BaseT and 1000BaseT use precisely the same carrier. The difference is 100BaseT only uses two pairs of conductors ( conductors 1 & 2 and 3 & 6), while 1000BaseT uses all four pairs.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

csell said:


> It was installed by the cable company because the signal strength was so weak.


It is their responsibility to see to it the signals are not weak. More to the point, an amplifier will not make up for a weak signal.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

csell said:


> It was installed by the cable company because the signal strength was so weak.


The main moca adapter comes before the cable modem. This is to catch the moca signal, since the cable modem doesn't pass it through.

Your line to the cable modem should look like this:

---coax ---> [moca adapter] ---coax---> [modem] ---ethernet---> router

And then there's an ethernet cable to connect the moca to the router, creating a loop.

Your workaround for the amp (with the Tivo's moca coming before the amp) might work, but if the signal is already weak enough to need the amp, cutting the signal again before it with the moca may just amplify more noise. Worth trying though. If that doesn't work, can the amp be moved to before the main splitter, by chance? That way all the home's moca will stay "after" the amp.


----------



## bspahn (Jan 11, 2002)

> My ethernet cable from the MoCa adapter to the router is Cat 6 cable since that tranfer is well over 100Mbps.


I just installed the actiontec MoCa adapter to communicate with a new Premiere 4 and I see that the transfer rate is listed at around 270Mbs between adapters. The ethernet port on the MoCa, however, appears to be a LAN-10/100 Mbps Ethernet RJ45 port. Are you seeing transfer rates greater than 100Mbps to your router?


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> The main moca adapter comes before the cable modem. This is to catch the moca signal, since the cable modem doesn't pass it through.


This doesn't make much sense. How are you defining "before"? The Cable Modem probably doesn't have an RF output, so the question of where the MoCA adapter goes WRT the modem is probably moot. If the modem does have an RF output, then the best place for it is probably before it hits anything else in the household, including the MoCa adapter.



BigJimOutlaw said:


> Your line to the cable modem should look like this:
> 
> ---coax ---> [moca adapter] ---coax---> [modem] ---ethernet---> router
> 
> And then there's an ethernet cable to connect the moca to the router, creating a loop.


This is nonsense. There is no loop. There is no communication between the modem and the MoCA adapter (except through the router) no matter where the MoCA adapter and the modem lie.



BigJimOutlaw said:


> Your workaround for the amp (with the Tivo's moca coming before the amp) might work, but if the signal is already weak enough to need the amp, cutting the signal again before it with the moca may just amplify more noise.


If the MoCA adapter has no internal amplifier, then it will not increase the noise, but it may (probably will, depending on the design) decrease the signal, which will in turn decrease the signal / noise ratio.



BigJimOutlaw said:


> Worth trying though. If that doesn't work, can the amp be moved to before the main splitter, by chance? That way all the home's moca will stay "after" the amp.


Regardless of anything else, if the amp is to do any good at all (and presuming an amp is necessary, which is unlikely), the amplifier needs to be placed right where the cable enters the house, prior to any passive element.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

bspahn said:


> I just installed the actiontec MoCa adapter


Which one? In order for us to answer questions about your equipment, we need to know what it is.



bspahn said:


> to communicate with a new Premiere 4 and I see that the transfer rate is listed at around 270Mbs between adapters.


'Sounds like MoCA 1.0. That is the phy rate. The payload will be substaintially less, and the phy rate encompases the communications between every MoCA adapter in the network.



bspahn said:


> The ethernet port on the MoCa, however, appears to be a LAN-10/100 Mbps Ethernet RJ45 port.


It's possible, but are you sure it is not 10/100/1000BaseT? 'Not that it makes much difference, mind you. With a phy rate of only 270 Mbps, it's going to be very difficult to manage too much more than a 100 Mbps LAN payload.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

lrhorer said:


> This doesn't make much sense. How are you defining "before"? The Cable Modem probably doesn't have an RF output, so the question of where the MoCA adapter goes WRT the modem is probably moot. If the modem does have an RF output, then the best place for it is probably before it hits anything else in the household, including the MoCa adapter.


I define "before" as I illustrated it. The coax from the wall goes to the moca adapter. Then from the moca adapter to the cable modem.



lrhorer said:


> This is nonsense. There is no loop. There is no communication between the modem and the MoCA adapter (except through the router) no matter where the MoCA adapter and the modem lie.


Thanks, I know. I was illustrating that the ethernet cable connecting the adapter to the router creates a physical loop among the devices and cables. I wasn't defining a communications or feedback loop or whatever it is you're thinking.



lrhorer said:


> If the MoCA adapter has no internal amplifier, then it will not increase the noise, but it may (probably will, depending on the design) decrease the signal, which will in turn decrease the signal / noise ratio.


Increase noise, decrease signal, however you want to slice it. Point taken. I wasn't referring to the moca adapter itself having an amp and increasing noise, but the associated split right before the amp causing additional degradation.



lrhorer said:


> Regardless of anything else, if the amp is to do any good at all (and presuming an amp is necessary, which is unlikely), the amplifier needs to be placed right where the cable enters the house, prior to any passive element.


As I suggested.

People love their minutia.


----------



## bspahn (Jan 11, 2002)

> Which one? In order for us to answer questions about your equipment, we need to know what it is.


The free one from TiVo...Actiontec ECB2500C.

Also, looking at http://www.mocalliance.org/ANGA/files/MoCA_Members_Information/Spirent_Deploying_MoCA.pdf it seems that the throughput of MoCa 1.0 and 1.1 is 135Mb/s and 175Mb/s respectively. The ECB2500C datasheet lists the data rate as *Up to 175 Mbps bi-directional combined* so maybe 100base-T is fine.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

bspahn said:


> The free one from TiVo...Actiontec ECB2500C.


Wait what? You just mean the Moca adapter ("receiver" though I guess they're not technically called that) BUILT INTO the Premieres, right? So you still need a separate one to attach to your cable..


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

mattack said:


> Wait what? You just mean the Moca adapter ("receiver" though I guess they're not technically called that) BUILT INTO the Premieres, right? So you still need a separate one to attach to your cable..


The MoCA is only built into the 4 tuner TPs, so unless you have a router that also has a built in MoCA you still must get the signal from the router to the cable, so one would need at least one MoCA adapter even if one had all TP-4s in the home.

Now I find that the TiVo N adapters work great for MRS, I get xfer speeds of from 40 to 80 Mb/sec so I not going to invest in MoCA now.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> I define "before" as I illustrated it. The coax from the wall goes to the moca adapter.


So how is that "before"? The signals from both the modem and the MoCA adapter travel both from the respective device toward the wall, as you put it and from the wall toward the device. More to the point, in terms of the household topology, there is a meaningful way to determine an upstream and downstream direction for the cablemodem (and thus a "before" and "after" placement), but there is no such thing for MoCA.



BigJimOutlaw said:


> Thanks, I know. I was illustrating that the ethernet cable connecting the adapter to the router creates a physical loop among the devices and cables.


Not in any meaningful way.



BigJimOutlaw said:


> I wasn't defining a communications or feedback loop or whatever it is you're thinking.


I'm simply thinking there is nothing remotely like a loop of any sort, any more than the power cables create one with the Ethernet cables. In the topology you outline, there is an RF connection between the MoCA adapter and the Cable Modem. If there is a separate router (which would not be the case if he has a cable gateway), there is also an Ethernet connection from the modem to the router and an Ethernet connection from the MoCa adapter to the router. In no way should any of these be thought of as "loops".



BigJimOutlaw said:


> Increase noise, decrease signal, however you want to slice it.


They are very different things, especially when one gets something like MoCa involved.



BigJimOutlaw said:


> Point taken. I wasn't referring to the moca adapter itself having an amp


It's possible, although I doubt it.



BigJimOutlaw said:


> and increasing noise


The increase in noise from a single amplifier is generally quite negligible, unless signal levels are low. That is one reason, among others, why the amp needs to be placed as far upstream toward the CATV headend as physically possible, assuming it is needed at all.



BigJimOutlaw said:


> As I suggested.


It is not what you suggested that is at issue, but why. If an amp is required in a house, then it needs to be placed at the entry point to the house, prior to any splitters or other devices, and regardless whether MoCA is being deployed in the house or not.



BigJimOutlaw said:


> People love their minutia.


Yes, but in this case it is not minutia. We are talking about fairly fundamental issues, here.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

bspahn said:


> The free one from TiVo...Actiontec ECB2500C.


Yes, it is 100M Fast Ethernet.



bspahn said:


> The ECB2500C datasheet lists the data rate as *Up to 175 Mbps bi-directional combined* so maybe 100base-T is fine.


Yes. In fact, it's not just the maximum bidirectional rate. It is the maximum network throughput. If you only have two adapters, the two are functionally identical, but with, say, four adapters, the total LAN throughput is 175 Mbps in every direction. If the traffic were perfectly symmetrical, that would be a Tx of about 44 Mbps from every adapter. With ten adapters, and once again a symmetrical traffic pattern, you would only be able to get about 17 Mbps from each adapter. Compare that with a 24 port gig switch, which can support a full 1000 Mbps both Tx and Rx on every port, for a maximum throughput of 24,000 Mbps.

In a TCP connection, the upstream rate is about 20% of the payload rate, so for a single pair of adapters sending data in only one direction, that would mean about 50 - 60 Mbs is wasted by the 100BaseT port bottleneck.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

lrhorer said:


> Yes, but in this case it is not minutia. We are talking about fairly fundamental issues, here.


Nah, it's minutia.  If I were in the amazingly boring position of guessing whether that the proper verbiage of "decreased signal" vs. "increased noise" is remotely important to the person I was actually corresponding with, or that nobody cares except you, I'm going with the latter. 

It's perfectly cool that you don't like the way I describe things. The post wasn't for you. But I'm not going to needlessly debate (now) sentence fragment by sentence fragment minutia. If there's something they don't understand, they can ask.


----------



## Davisadm (Jan 19, 2008)

I was looking for the Actiontec WCB2500M MoCA adapter with wifi and 4 ethernet ports. This was announced in June, 2011. On the Actiontec web site, under products, found a page describing it, plus a link to a PDF brochure sheet. Searched all over for it, could not find it. 

E-mailed Actiontec, asking where I could find it. No response, E-mailed 4 more times, still no response.

Finally called up Actiontec and asked about it. Was told it is not yet available, to use the ECB2500C. I told the sales person this is just a MoCA adapter, nothing like what I was inquiring about. Silence from the sales person. Asked what do you have similar to the WCB2500M, again silence. Asked when will the WCB2500M be out. "I don't know" was the reply. I asked why was product announced 1-1/2 years ago, and detailed specs on web site if it is still not available. Again silence. Was surprised at the arrogance and attitude of this sales person. Got the feeling that because they have a semi-monopoly on MoCA adapters, they don't care


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Davisadm said:


> I was looking for the Actiontec WCB2500M MoCA adapter with wifi and 4 ethernet ports. This was announced in June, 2011. On the Actiontec web site, under products, found a page describing it, plus a link to a PDF brochure sheet. Searched all over for it, could not find it.
> 
> E-mailed Actiontec, asking where I could find it. No response, E-mailed 4 more times, still no response.
> 
> Finally called up Actiontec and asked about it. Was told it is not yet available, to use the ECB2500C. I told the sales person this is just a MoCA adapter, nothing like what I was inquiring about. Silence from the sales person. Asked what do you have similar to the WCB2500M, again silence. Asked when will the WCB2500M be out. "I don't know" was the reply. I asked why was product announced 1-1/2 years ago, and detailed specs on web site if it is still not available. Again silence. Was surprised at the arrogance and attitude of this sales person. Got the feeling that because they have a semi-monopoly on MoCA adapters, they don't care


Yeah, the WCB2500M doesn't appear to be a certified moca device yet, so it's basically non-existent. I guess the closest thing to this would be the Actiontec MI424WR router, which can be placed in bridge mode. Many/Most Verizon Fios customers get this router as part of their service installation.

I have the Verizon-provided one as my primary router and a second one I picked up off of eBay set up in bridge mode. It doesn't have top-notch wireless N support (of the latter versions that have wireless N), but it gets the job done and has been reliable.


----------



## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Yeah, the WCB2500M doesn't appear to be a certified moca device yet, so it's basically non-existent. I guess the closest thing to this would be the Actiontec MI424WR router, which can be placed in bridge mode. Many/Most Verizon Fios customers get this router as part of their service installation. It doesn't have top-notch wireless N support (of the versions that have wireless N), but it gets the job done and has been reliable. Various versions can be found on eBay.


I bought 2 from this seller http://www.ebay.com/itm/16095819130...l?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=160958191304&_rdc=1 The usb doesn't seem to be functional, but other than that it worlks great in bridge mode.


----------



## Ckought (Nov 29, 2006)

Are there any MoCA 2.0 devices?

What version of MoCA does the TiVo Premiere 4 / XL4 use?


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Ckought said:


> Are there any MoCA 2.0 devices?
> 
> What version of MoCA does the TiVo Premiere 4 / XL4 use?


The Tivos (and upcoming Mini) are 1.1 devices. I don't know of any available adapters that are 2.0 yet, but I believe some general products shown at CES were 2.0.


----------



## smoberly (Jul 6, 2004)

bspahn said:


> The free one from TiVo...Actiontec ECB2500C.


The "free one" from TiVo....I was not aware that they were giving them away...I see on the website that they sell the adapters....and for a pretty good price compared to what I have seen on eBay..

Where is this free one you reference?


----------



## smoberly (Jul 6, 2004)

lessd said:


> Now I find that the TiVo N adapters work great for MRS, I get xfer speeds of from 40 to 80 Mb/sec so I not going to invest in MoCA now.


I have one of the older G adapters and one of the N adapters...although I can transfer shows between my two Premieres...I can't stream.

Are you saying that with two N adapters that you are able to stream?

A second N adapter is certainly a much cheaper solution than a complete migration to MOCA.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

smoberly said:


> I have one of the older G adapters and one of the N adapters...although I can transfer shows between my two Premieres...I can't stream.
> 
> Are you saying that with two N adapters that you are able to stream?
> 
> A second N adapter is certainly a much cheaper solution than a complete migration to MOCA.


I have been streaming using the TiVo N adapters BUT I have a duel band router and the N adapter is set up on the 5Ghz radio, not the 2.4Ghz radio. The N adapter can use both radios so I did a manual setup (directions in the N adapter manual) to make sure I was on my 5Ghz radio. I get 50 to 80 MB/Sec xfer and no problems with MRS. You can also use another N adapter on any router as the 5Ghz radio, but I don't think that radio is as good as the one built into my Netgear router.


----------



## donnoh (Mar 7, 2008)

I have a question about using MoCA on a Premiere 4.

A little background first. Currently I have 2 two tuner Premieres that I connect to my home network using Actiontec MoCA adapters, so each Premiere has an adapter and there is another adapter at my router. The Premiere in my living room is connected to the MoCA adapter through a 4 port switch that also has my TV, BluRay player and Roku box plugged into it.

I have just ordered a new Premiere 4 to replace my living room Premiere and I know that I can just connect it to the network like it is now. What I'm wondering about is if I can do away with that MoCA adapter and connect the Premiere to the network with MoCA and connect the 4 port switch to the Ethernet port on the back of the Premiere? Will the 4 port switch work ok and what mode would I select for the Premiere MoCA adapter?

Is there any downside to doing this assuming it works, like slowing the Premiere down any? I would like to set the Actiontec MoCA adapter aside as a spare if the Premiere will work in its place and I've also had several power supply adapters fail on these and would like to get rid of one more failure point.


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

I do that with my Elite and it works fine. Plug the coax directly into the Elite/XL4/4 and turn on MoCA in the settings. Plug in the ethernet switch and those devices will bridge off the built-in MoCA.

The only downside I can think of is that if the TiVO reboots, you lose connectivity to the devices on the switch during the reboot.


----------



## donnoh (Mar 7, 2008)

Arcady said:


> I do that with my Elite and it works fine. Plug the coax directly into the Elite/XL4/4 and turn on MoCA in the settings. Plug in the ethernet switch and those devices will bridge off the built-in MoCA.
> 
> The only downside I can think of is that if the TiVO reboots, you lose connectivity to the devices on the switch during the reboot.


Thanks for the reply. I thought I had read that it worked somewhere but I couldn't find it in a search.


----------



## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

ghuido said:


> Hello Everyone
> 
> I was thinking of switching out from Wireless AP Bridges to connect all my TVIO's and switching over to MOCA Adapters.
> 
> ...


I use the Netgear one. Works perfectly. Unfortunately it's hard to find now.


----------



## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

I've been running MoCA at home for my five Tivos (currently three PreXLs, one PreXL4 and one S3) for a couple of years now and it's been working extremely well.

I've used the Actiontec EBC2200 units (same one Tivo sells on their website, though could be the newer 2500 unit) since day one and they've all worked with little issue and has pushed 60-80Mbps between Premiere units and 45-65 between Premiere and S3. More than enough to do streaming and copy HD quicker than realtime and SD in 4-5x realtime.

I have a 8-way powered amplifier installed by my cable company and have had no issues with the amplifier and MoCA. There's a privacy filter installed on the cable feed at the amplifier and that's not caused any issues with MoCA use, cable modem use or cable TV use.

When the PreXL4 replaced my last HD, I had a couple of issues getting the built-in MoCA adapter to work with the rest of the network, though it took a couple of reboots and toggling it off/on to get it to work OK.

The Actiontec adapter is cheapest on the Tivo website ($50) as is the POE/Privacy filter ($10) that I've seen anywhere:
http://www.tivo.com/products/tivo-accessories/dvr-networking/index.html

I also see that the 2200s have been replaced by the 2500s, though my 2200s have been rock solid for 2+ years.


----------



## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

I ordered the Actiontec MoCA devices to install (1) in my upstairs office to connect to the router, (2) downstairs on our TiVo, and (3) in the basement to connect the ADT Pulse system to the internet.

Right now things are kind of haphazardly thrown together through WiFi extenders, which has crowded the WiFi space and makes things drop frequently (particularly Sonos, which is doing well after hardwiring it to the network). Streaming would be non-existant.

With the first MoCA adapter, I plan to connect it directly to coax and then the out coax to my cable modem. From reading this thread I believe that is correct. Do I need to connect this before or after I use my APC UPS battery backup coax surge protector?

Can I connect a switch to the adapter used for the downstairs TiVo Premiere? I have a TV, Xbox, and DVD player that all have network connections.

Do I need to install a point-of-entry filter before the cable goes to the amplifier to isolate my signals from the neighbor (security reasons, but also I've read it increases signal in your house)?

I have a powered amplifier that was installed by Comcast when they set everything up. Here's hoping it will work properly through that amplifier.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

geekmedic said:


> Can I connect a switch to the adapter used for the downstairs TiVo Premiere? I have a TV, Xbox, and DVD player that all have network connections.


If you mean in one of the Tivo Premieres that has built in Moca.. THIS IS BASED UPON MY MEMORY OF THE ANSWERS TO MY SIMILAR QUESTION.. I do not guarantee its veracity.

I think the answer is yes.. Hook the Tivo Premiere to the switch and then the other devices will 'see' the network through the Tivo.


----------



## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

geekmedic said:


> I ordered the Actiontec MoCA devices to install (1) in my upstairs office to connect to the router, (2) downstairs on our TiVo, and (3) in the basement to connect the ADT Pulse system to the internet.
> 
> Right now things are kind of haphazardly thrown together through WiFi extenders, which has crowded the WiFi space and makes things drop frequently (particularly Sonos, which is doing well after hardwiring it to the network). Streaming would be non-existant.
> 
> With the first MoCA adapter, I plan to connect it directly to coax and then the out coax to my cable modem. From reading this thread I believe that is correct. Do I need to connect this before or after I use my APC UPS battery backup coax surge protector?


I don't use the surge protector items for coax on my APC units, though I would imagine that's how you'd want to do it, assuming there's no loss in signal going through the in/out on the APC unit.



> Can I connect a switch to the adapter used for the downstairs TiVo Premiere? I have a TV, Xbox, and DVD player that all have network connections.


Yes, you can. They'll all share the bandwidth of the MoCA adapter, so you may run into some slowdowns if all devices are all active at the same time.

On my basement entertainment stand, I have numerous devices that were hooked up to the MoCA adapter used by the Tivo that's located there, until I moved all of the other devices to a wireless bridge and left the Tivo to run on the MoCA network on its own. Wasn't an issue except when I had the Xbox 360, PS3 and HTPC all doing heavy network traffic at the same time which caused some slowdowns.



> Do I need to install a point-of-entry filter before the cable goes to the amplifier to isolate my signals from the neighbor (security reasons, but also I've read it increases signal in your house)?


I'd recommend it, as it blocks the MoCA data from going upstream. I've never had any issues with any signal problems on CATV or data usage.



> I have a powered amplifier that was installed by Comcast when they set everything up. Here's hoping it will work properly through that amplifier.


Charter installed an 8-way power amplifier in my basement before I had MoCA and I've not had any issues with using MoCA with that amplifier.


----------



## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

I installed everything, and the MoCA network itself is working great.

I've noticed my HD channels are becoming pixelated and sometimes drop signals.

I installed the MoCA adapters before I put the new TiVo in service (had to get a replacement; old Premier's hard drive died). However, Comcast's own cable box was in use for high def channels. I believe the Actiontec scans for available frequencies, so these frequencies should've been taken already and the MoCA adapter should've recognized this (if this is how it's designed).

Has anyone else ran into interference issues? Should I reset the MoCA adapter that's installed on my router (or should I restart all of them)? How exactly do you reset the adapters?


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

geekmedic said:


> I installed everything, and the MoCA network itself is working great.
> 
> I've noticed my HD channels are becoming pixelated and sometimes drop signals.
> 
> ...


Probably a slight signal drop from the extra connection in between the wall and the TiVo put you over the edge. Some of the newer HD channels are higher in frequency as well, so they have more issues than the older, lower frequency ones.


----------



## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

Bigg said:


> Probably a slight signal drop from the extra connection in between the wall and the TiVo put you over the edge. Some of the newer HD channels are higher in frequency as well, so they have more issues than the older, lower frequency ones.


It seems to have resolved itself. Not sure if the adapter changed frequencies or not.

How secure is the MoCA network with a POE filter installed? I don't care if someone in my house hooks into the network, but I don't want someone hooking up from outside the house. I think the POE filter does a pretty good job of isolating the signal, but wanted to confirm my thinking.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

geekmedic said:


> How secure is the MoCA network with a POE filter installed? I don't care if someone in my house hooks into the network, but I don't want someone hooking up from outside the house. I think the POE filter does a pretty good job of isolating the signal, but wanted to confirm my thinking.


After a POE filter, it's pretty much as isolated as any wired ethernet network. Never heard of a reported problem.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

geekmedic said:


> It seems to have resolved itself. Not sure if the adapter changed frequencies or not.
> 
> How secure is the MoCA network with a POE filter installed? I don't care if someone in my house hooks into the network, but I don't want someone hooking up from outside the house. I think the POE filter does a pretty good job of isolating the signal, but wanted to confirm my thinking.


I'd say it's fine. I mean who's going to think to use a MoCA adapter to try and hack into your network anyways?


----------



## Snake Plissken (Nov 23, 2012)

smoberly said:


> I have one of the older G adapters and one of the N adapters...although I can transfer shows between my two Premieres...I can't stream.
> 
> Are you saying that with two N adapters that you are able to stream?
> 
> A second N adapter is certainly a much cheaper solution than a complete migration to MOCA.


I can


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Bigg said:


> I'd say it's fine. I mean who's going to think to use a MoCA adapter to try and hack into your network anyways?


The Spanish Inquisition.

Because, after all...


----------



## rethinking (Apr 30, 2008)

I have a Tivo Elite and an XL. Both have Cisco tuning adapters (provided by Cox). I have two Actiontec ECB2200 moca adapters. One set up from my cable to my router for the network and one set up on the XL. The XL works fine. The Elite has never been able to connect to the network. Ive tried every configuration I have come across. Ive use splitters and diplexers to bypass amplifiers and tuning adapters, nothing. I gave up and let the Elite use the Wireless G adapter and used the moca adapter on the XL. Although the XL lost some premium channels whiIe connected, the two tivos seemed to stream pretty decently, with ony a few dropped connections. Then my Elite started rebooting every couple of hours. I got a replacement through Tivo and when I started setting up the new Elite for the first time, it recognized my moca network immediately. It connected to tivo for the first time with no problem. After it downloaded an update, it repeated the set up steps, but this time wouldnt see the moca network. I got the same 33 error code. I didnt change the set up so why did it stop seeing the moca? Ive gone back to using the moca on the XL and the Wireless G on the Elite. I think the new Elite may be rebooting in the middle of the night (all of the tuners are on the same channel when I turn it on in the morning). By using a moca network (via my coax cable) on the Elite and then telling it to communicate using wifi to the other moca Tivo, am I confusing or damaging the hard drive?

Thanks


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

There shouldn't be any confusion, of course it's not going to damage the hard drive. That's really weird, as MoCA should be the same as Ethernet protocol and software wise.


----------



## rethinking (Apr 30, 2008)

Well, I still seem to have the same problem with reboots. Every time I stream, it works well, but hours later the Elite reboots. Any thoughts?


----------



## tvn (Sep 29, 2002)

Which 8 way amplifier/splitter do you have? Thank you. These are very tricky?


shrike4242 said:


> I've been running MoCA at home for my five Tivos (currently three PreXLs, one PreXL4 and one S3) for a couple of years now and it's been working extremely well.
> 
> I've used the Actiontec EBC2200 units (same one Tivo sells on their website, though could be the newer 2500 unit) since day one and they've all worked with little issue and has pushed 60-80Mbps between Premiere units and 45-65 between Premiere and S3. More than enough to do streaming and copy HD quicker than realtime and SD in 4-5x realtime.
> 
> ...


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

shrike4242 said:


> I've been running MoCA at home for my five Tivos (currently three PreXLs, one PreXL4 and one S3) for a couple of years now and it's been working extremely well.
> 
> I've used the Actiontec EBC2200 units (same one Tivo sells on their website, though could be the newer 2500 unit) since day one and they've all worked with little issue and has pushed 60-80Mbps between Premiere units and 45-65 between Premiere and S3. More than enough to do streaming and copy HD quicker than realtime and SD in 4-5x realtime.
> 
> ...


It looks like the main change with the 2500 model is that all connections are on the same side. The specs seem to be the same as the 2200 model. Still MoCA 1.1

That was the main reason I had picked up the Dlink MoCA adapters a few years ago instead of the Actiontec one. The Dlink ones had all the connections on the same side. I didn't want a device that had connections on more than one side.


----------



## Westside Charlie (Mar 4, 2013)

So, I thought I understood the complete simplicity of introducing MoCA to my setup but am slightly confused, despite a lot of clarifying information on this thread. My set up is:

-- main computer room where router is (FiOS cable attached to router here.)
-- TiVO and HDTV in playroom (FiOS cable enters here.)

I attached MoCA 1 to the incoming coax then from there used an Ethernet cable to attach to the router. There is already an Ethernet cable connecting the router to the computer.

Then I attached MoCA 2 to the incoming coax to the TiVO, attached an Ethernet cable directly to the HDTV (because we use that unit to stream from Netflix), and connected another coax from MoCA 2 to TiVO. 

With this set up, the TV was successfully hard-wired to the internet. BUT, I was unable to access the internet at my main computer. Shouldn't that have worked?

So, I went back and added a coax splitter where the router is so one coax goes to the MoCA and the other to the router (which still had the ethernet connection to the computer.) That seemed to do the trick until we lost most of our wireless signal in the rest of the house. So, I took out the MoCA attached to the router till I could figure this out.

My basic question is:

Shouldn't I be able to go coax to MoCA to router to ethernet to computer? (That's just one MoCA device, right?)

Then, one additional MoCA at other locations with a coax and other ethernet-ready device.

Any insight would be most appreciated.

Thanks!


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Westside Charlie said:


> So, I thought I understood the complete simplicity of introducing MoCA to my setup but am slightly confused, despite a lot of clarifying information on this thread. My set up is:
> 
> -- main computer room where router is (FiOS cable attached to router here.)
> -- TiVO and HDTV in playroom (FiOS cable enters here.)
> ...


If you have Fios TV, you don't need a moca adapter connected to the main router. It's built into the Verizon-supplied router already. Remove that adapter, and the splitter setup isn't necessary either.

Coax to the Verizon router = done. Your house is already lit up for moca.

If you have a 2-tuner Tivo, your moca2's ethernet port needs to connect to the Tivo or else the Tivo doesn't have an internet connection. But you can get a cheap ethernet hub if you want to attach multiple devices to the moca2's ethernet port.

And to answer your general last question, yes, anywhere you want an ethernet connection in the house, add a moca adapter to the coax in that area.


----------



## Westside Charlie (Mar 4, 2013)

Well, dang it, BigJimOutlaw I've been making my life more complicated than I had to. Thanks for clarifying and all is as you say. Now I've got an extra MoCA I'm sure I'll find a use for.

Thanks!


----------



## gkkennett (Dec 12, 2015)

I have Comcast internet and phone along with dish satellite all coming thru the wall on same coax from the wall plate .

I just bought the Mohu outside antenna antenna , Tivio roamio OTA and 2 mini's with 2 moca network adapters (Getting rid of dish) 

Do i need to have Comcast come in and set up a separate wall plate for my Internet/phone to my router?

Then hook the antenna up to the splitters for the whole house to receive OTA


----------



## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

lessd said:


> Most cable amps are now two way to handle cable modems/On Demand from a cable boxes etc., so MoCA should pass through them yes/no ??


Hi,
Ordinarily standard (older) amps will not pass MoCA frequencies. One of these could be used if it comes before any splitters and will serve a similar function to a MoCA POE/ Whole Home DVR filter but not as well.
The worst kind of amps for MoCA are the older standard multiport type as these will block any MoCA frequencies trying to pass between the legs. 
The bi-directional issue is different and has nothing to do with MoCA.
There are MoCA compatible amps available. These only amplify the < 1GHz band and leave the higher > 1GHz frequencies alone, hence MoCA compatible.
The least expensive multiport MoCA friendly are the "blue" label (not the older red label) EVO1-9-U/U or EVO1-5-U/U found on Ebay. If a one in one out MoCA amp is needed, the PDI MoCA Bypass Amplifier PDI-MBA-101-A is also available on Ebay.
Avoid any Commscope amps from Ebay, there are several sellers claiming that theirs are MoCA friendly, but they are not. The confusion comes from Commscope's labeling the rare MoCA friendly one the same as the more common non-MoCA friendly one. The only discernible difference is a small yellow tag on the MoCA friendly one.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

gkkennett said:


> I have Comcast internet and phone along with dish satellite all coming thru the wall on same coax from the wall plate. I just bought the Mohu outside antenna antenna , Tivio roamio OTA and 2 mini's with 2 moca network adapters (Getting rid of dish)
> 
> Do i need to have Comcast come in and set up a separate wall plate for my Internet/phone to my router?


Yes, that sounds right, since Comcast's signal and your OTA antenna would conflict on the same coax.



> Then hook the antenna up to the splitters for the whole house to receive OTA


I take it that the antenna coax will simply be replacing the DISH coax feed into the splitter?

Sounds like it should work, but the devil is in the details. 

You'll need to install a "PoE" MoCA filter to reflect MoCA signals before going up the antenna. (see here)

Will the antenna need amplification? Amps can conflict with MoCA.


----------

