# Sky+ free from July



## Zippy (Aug 23, 2002)

I left Sky in September last year and every month I get bombarded by letters and phone calls to return. The latest letter offered me a six months half price subscription package, free Sky plus box, free installation and free Sky plus without a premium channel sub. When I phoned to enquire I was told Sky Plus is going free from 1st July to all anyway, surely this is another nail in Tivo's coffin.


----------



## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Zippy said:


> .. Sky Plus is going free from 1st July to all anyway, surely this is another nail in Tivo's coffin.


No? Really?
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=352517
 

Sorry, I know sarcasm is the lowest form of wit (but then I'm only 5'2" so quite 'low' myself ) but seriously, it's there on the front page. You didn't even need to search for it!


----------



## Zippy (Aug 23, 2002)

Sorry for starting a new thread, I haven't been here for a while and I didn't see that thread as I was still to exited by the offer


----------



## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Hehe! Getting excite by Sky? You must live a really boring life


----------



## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

It is not free, sky don't do FREE.

You have still got to be a subscriber for the SKY+ functionality, previously it was free if you subscribed to 2 or more premium.

Again, you can not just buy a sky+ box, you still have to be a subscriber to access the Sky+ functions.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Hehe! Getting excite by Sky? You must live a really boring life


Careful Carl. How does that old saying go about those living in glass houses and not throwing stones.  

However if you had ever visited Grays in Essex (one of the South East's most depressing towns and very aptly named apart from the slight misspelling) then you would understand why Sky Digital is exciting there. 

But coming back to the original suggestion Sky is merely cutting the cost of the minimum subscription level needed to get Sky+ functionality from £444 per annum to £180 per annum.

Now while that is quite a cut it is taking place only because Freeview Playback Series Link PVR functionality will be totally free of charge and is about to become available at any moment.


----------



## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Now while that is quite a cut it is taking place only because Freeview Playback Series Link PVR functionality will be totally free of charge and is about to become available at any moment.


It's nothing to do with that.

It's happening because Sky are reaching saturation on Sky+ among their premium subscribers, and they are now turning their attention to the non-premium ones. There has been little point in doing that up to now, but the introduction of Sky Anytime now gives them a powerful upgrading tool.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> It's nothing to do with that.
> 
> It's happening because Sky are reaching saturation on Sky+ among their premium subscribers, and they are now turning their attention to the non-premium ones. There has been little point in doing that up to now, but the introduction of Sky Anytime now gives them a powerful upgrading tool.


Well you certainly seem to have an authoritative direct inside line to Sky's current marketing strategy that the rest of us seem to lack. As ever you seem to feel an affinity with Sky's whole commercial strategy that few of the rest of us share or are so closely tuned in to. Now I wonder why that is.   

However your view is just your view and while it may be true that Sky are also now turning their attention to non premium subscribers (although if that is true I would expect to see the return of the half price discount for the first 3 months on the basic package that was abolished when the current See, Surf, Speak broadband package push began regardless of whether or not a customer actually lives on an Easynet enabled exchange where they can get the cheap Sky broadband) I feel equally sure that they regard the launch of free gratis and for nothing Sky+ like functionality by Freeview Playback as a major threat that they must start to counter by having a lower priced Sky product with this functionality.

Of course if you have a personal hotline to one of Sky's directors and can post their current marketing plans here then I am sure we would all be only too happy to read it.


----------



## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> However your view is just your view and while it may be true that Sky are also now turning their attention to non premium subscribers (although if that is true I would expect to see the return of the half price discount for the first 3 months on the basic package that was abolished when the current See, Surf, Speak broadband package push began regardless of whether or not a customer actually lives on an Easynet enabled exchange where they can get the cheap Sky broadband) I feel equally sure that they regard the launch of free gratis and for nothing Sky+ like functionality by Freeview Playback as a major threat that they must start to counter by having a lower priced Sky product with this functionality.
> 
> Of course if you have a personal hotline to one of Sky's directors and can post their current marketing plans here then I am sure we would all be only too happy to read it.


It's my view, but I don't recall you qualifying _your _statement of why they would do it.

I have no hotline to Sky, but I think its clear in a number of threads that your grasp on how modern business works is pretty tenuous, so I'll stick with my view!

The FreeSat thing is not coming out any time soon; there is no need to cut price to react to that (if that were worth doing) until much closer to the launch. To do so earlier would just be throwing money away, something Sky are not renowned for.


----------



## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Well you certainly seem to have an authoritative direct inside line to Sky's current marketing strategy that the rest of us seem to lack.


Either that or he's just using common business sense 



Pete77 said:


> However your view is just your view and while it may be true that Sky are also now turning their attention to non premium subscribers (although if that is true I would expect to see the return of the half price discount for the first 3 months on the basic package ..


Well they have just given my FreesatFromSky-viewing parents everything free for one month, so maybe they are.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> The FreeSat thing is not coming out any time soon; there is no need to cut price to react to that (if that were worth doing) until much closer to the launch. To do so earlier would just be throwing money away, something Sky are not renowned for.


No I'm talking about *Freeview Playback  * which is out now and not about the BBC/ITV Freesat HD sat box project which is due next year.

Or do you not keep up to date with the latest developments?


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Well they have just given my FreesatFromSky-viewing parents everything free for one month, so maybe they are.


They haven't offered me anything at all since I desubscribed again in March.

However when you desubscribe for the third time perhaps they put you in a No Hope/Don't Bother category on their system

If they offered me a free Sky HD box and 6 months half price basic sub I would be interested but only if they also agreed to install the second feed needed for Sky+ functionality from our communal satellite dish that they now provide flat owners with for free but that I had to pay £300 just to get one feed from the communal dish installed at the time.


----------



## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> No I'm talking about *Freeview Playback  * which is out now and not about the BBC/ITV Freesat HD sat box project which is due next year.
> 
> Or do you not keep up to date with the latest developments?


Do you mean this:

http://www.freeviewplayback.co.uk/

How is that any different to the Freeview DVRs which have been around for many years? Just looks like a new logo on an old box.

If it offered Season Pass/Series Link functionality then you might have a point, but it doesn't seem to.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Do you mean this:
> 
> http://www.freeviewplayback.co.uk/
> 
> ...


Annoyingly marketing man dilution means that not all Freeview Playback boxes will offer Series Link but some Freeview Playback boxes will offer Series Link and the BBC is already providing the Metadata that makes this possible in the Freeview EPG.

I'm not clear whether a box that offers Series Link function is yet out as the release date from the manufacturers seems to keep dropping back and I haven't been down to a major Currys or Comet to look for 3 or 4 months but they will be appearing very soon and before the BBC/ITV HD Freesat Satellite boxes and dishes.

www.pvruk.co.uk/freeview_playback.cfm has more info on possible launch dates but nobody seems too sure when boxes that offer the more interesting new features will actually finally appear. There will be boxes that do Series Link and ultimately a Wishlist equivalent as that is the main point of the whole Freeview Playback marketing initiative. Just Pausing Live Tv is not going to cut it as Tivo UK's marketing people found out to their cost.


----------



## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

There are already boxed with Wishlists - the Topfield's done that for years.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

This previous item shows that Series Link is definitely intended and indeed the main purpose of the Freeview Playback initiative:-



> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Freeview Playback signalling update
> 2006-12-13 06:08:30
> PVR UK Link: DTG News
> ...


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> There are already boxed with Wishlists - the Topfield's done that for years.


Yes but enhanced Metadata is now being added to the EPG with program description, director and actor names etc.

That will make the Wishlist functionality a lot more like Tivo plus the capability of the hardware and software needed to do it all will be less than on a Topfield.

Also there will be a proper Series Link which the Topfield does not support.


----------



## britcub (Jan 19, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> But coming back to the original suggestion Sky is merely cutting the cost of the minimum subscription level needed to get Sky+ functionality from £444 per annum to £180 per annum.


Once again, you repeat this fallacy. If you are only interested in FTA channels (i.e. like Freeview Playback), you only need to pay £120 per annum for Sky+ functionality.

Yes, we'd all like it to be completely free, but Sky have made a business decision. If people don't want to pay, they can (mostly) go elsewhere.

But frankly, as long as I can use a TiVo, I've no interest in acquiring Sky+ at any price!


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

britcub said:


> Once again, you repeat this fallacy. If you are only interested in FTA channels (i.e. like Freeview Playback), you only need to pay £120 per annum for Sky+ functionality.


But Sky are not exactly keen on promoting that option are they?

They have not even marketed that option as an upgrade to their www.freesatfromsky.co.uk customers, even though you might surely think that was a logical thing to do even if they were asked to pay another £50 as well for the replacement Sky+ box.


----------



## britcub (Jan 19, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> But Sky are not exactly keen on promoting that option are they?


Whether Sky 'promote' it or not, the option exists. Therefore please stop trotting out your inaccurate nonsense.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

britcub said:


> Whether Sky 'promote' it or not, the option exists. Therefore please stop trotting out your inaccurate nonsense.


If Sky don't promote it then it won't be generally sold or taken up will it. 

I have a rather flexible Sky product called Sky Month By Month where you only pay £99 up front for the box and dish and have no further commitment to any ongoing subs and can opt in and out of subscribing with almost no notice (especially the latter when even normal ex Sky subscribers have to give a month's notice to desubscribe).

But Sky were only forced to produce it as a way for those with poor credit scores (not my reason for having the product) and/or who had not been at the address long to get the service and are not at all keen to even admit it exists (unless you really press their sales staff on the phone) because they make far less profit out of it.

If Sky don't promote a product in its normal advertising and brochures then in effect it might as well not exist for most ordinary members of the public.

Also note that the £120 per annum Sky+ option you cite as existing is only available to an ex Sky subscriber and not to a new Sky subscriber who has to sign up for a one year subscription package contract at £15 per month as well to get the dish and Sky+ box.


----------



## britcub (Jan 19, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> Also note that the £120 per annum Sky+ option you cite as existing is only available to an ex Sky subscriber and not to a new Sky subscriber who has to sign up for a one year subscription package contract at £15 per month as well to get the dish and Sky+ box.


Not so. It applies to ANYONE who has a Sky+ box fitted. The box does not have to be installed or supplied by Sky directly.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

britcub said:


> Not so. It applies to ANYONE who has a Sky+ box fitted. The box does not have to be installed or supplied by Sky directly.


Yes but that option will cost you the earth for a new Sky+box without a box subsidy and with paying yourself for a professional Sky dish install and will be a lot more than just the £120 for the one year Sky+ sub.


----------



## britcub (Jan 19, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> Yes but that option will cost you the earth for a new Sky+box without a box subsidy and with paying yourself for a professional Sky dish install and will be a lot more than just the £120 for the one year Sky+ sub.


I know that Pete, I am capable of basic mathematics.

The FACT remains that you do not HAVE to subscribe to sky packages, despite your protestations to the contrary.

But then, facts have never been your strong suit, have they?


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

britcub said:


> The FACT remains that you do not HAVE to subscribe to sky packages, despite your protestations to the contrary.


The fact of the matter is that most people will not regard paying an extra £10 per month Sky+ subscription just to record essentially the Freeview range of channels as a financially viable or cost effective option.

They would rather get a Freeview Playback box with Series Link and no subscription as and when such boxes become available as they very shortly will.

The fact of the matter is that you do still now have to pay Sky a £180 per annum sub if you want to get the Sky+ facility without paying an extra £120 per annum just to have that Sky+ recording facility.

Do you perhaps enjoy starting fights in pubs with people. I am beginning to think that you quite possibly may do?


----------



## britcub (Jan 19, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> The fact of the matter is that most people will not regard paying an extra £10 per month Sky+ subscription just to record essentially the Freeview range of channels as a financially viable or cost effective option.


I've already said it should be free. But I do understand it's in Sky's interest to make it unattractive. You've come round to thinking like Sky, Pete.



Pete77 said:


> The fact of the matter is that you do still now have to pay Sky a £180 per annum sub if you want to get the Sky+ facility without paying an extra £120 per annum just to have that Sky+ recording facility.


So you have to pay £180 if you don't want to pay £120? Even for you, this is bizarre logic!



Pete77 said:


> Do you perhaps enjoy starting fights in pubs with people. I am beginning to think that you quite possibly may do?


Typical Pete. Lose the argument, then descend into the personal, making assumptions about people you don't know.

However, if I had to pick out a single person on this forum who 'starts fights'...


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

britcub said:


> So you have to pay £180 if you don't want to pay £120? Even for you, this is bizarre logic!...


No this is precisely the logic which Sky expect all their customers to apply to this matter so that they will realise 2 Sky Mixes only in effect cost £60 per annum extra if they also want Sky+ and so go for that £180 option instead.

Previously their hope was to force people to go for at least one premium channel to get Sky+ thrown in but as that was so much money extra they have now realised they may retain old subscribers who may be about to leave by bundling in Sky+ at the £15 per month level.

I think its all about customer retention versus Freeview Playback, V+ and Windows MCE rather than about Sky trying to acquire new basic level customers with this pricing.

Sky must know perfectly well that they are going to have a hell of a job ever getting to 10 million customers and that once Freeview Playback with Series Link and the BBC/ITV HD PVR satellite box is out next year their subscriber numbers may well even begin to decline.

Defending their existing revenues is now the name of the game and profits on broadband and per per view broadband movies are the only way Sky can hope to actually increase their revenues going forwards.


----------



## britcub (Jan 19, 2004)

You've actually talked yourself full circle now, spending a long post agreeing with me. Thanks Pete.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

britcub said:


> You've actually talked yourself full circle now, spending a long post agreeing with me. Thanks Pete.


I can see you are a man who always likes to win the argument at any cost.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle back.

As you now see you can't win you conveniently decide to duck out of the thread.


----------



## britcub (Jan 19, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> I can see you are a man who always likes to win the argument at any cost.
> 
> Talk about the pot calling the kettle back.
> 
> As you now see you can't win you conveniently decide to duck out of the thread.


I have no interest in 'winning' Pete. I just prefer it if people stick to the facts if they are going to debate.

Though, seeing as you have agreed twice that I was right and you were wrong, perhaps I have 'won'.

And as for ducking out of the thread... perhaps you remember this one ?


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

britcub said:


> And as for ducking out of the thread... perhaps you remember this one ?


----------



## healeydave (Jun 4, 2003)

Sky air on the side of desperation when it comes to keeping customers which most people only realise when they do actually try and cancel. There's nothing wrong with this of-course, it only becomes tedious when you really have no requirement any longer.

My LNB failed on my dish earlier this year and whilst I've always done my own installations, I couldn't be arsed to go up he ladder this time so I canceled the subscription (in my name) and re-subscribed in my wifes name just to get a new dish installed. Since then I regularly get calls trying to entice me back and I can't fault the offers or there persistence, I just can't admit to them that I really don't want to come back because I 'used' them in the first place 

There used to be a thread somewhere that explained the way they work and how to get reduced deals etc which nearly every subscriber should do to drastically reduce their sky subscription.
I think it worked better at the beginning of the month because theres like a pot of incentives that the agents can use which replenishes each month. You should be able to get several months of half price stuff or free add-ons which you can do once a year by asking to downgrade or cancel your package


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

When I cancelled in March the Sky sales agent told me all discount incentive schemes for staying on had been withdrawn and there was nothing they could try to tempt me with.

As I'm not on an Easynet enabled exchange they couldn't even offer me cheap broadband but only their expensive broadband for non Easynet areas.

Of course it may be because I had already cancelled twice before on that account.


----------

