# Roamio's becoming piles of crap



## dswallow

I've never been so down on TiVo As I have been these last few months. The company is putting out garbage. And doing nothing to make it better.

If tonight I could go out and get an X2 system from Comcast, I probably would do it.

The TiVo service sucks. And TiVo can't get it right. 

They've been sitting around blaming CableCARDs for innumerable problems and doing nothing to make anything better, whether or not that really is the problem. They know when these problems occur. They could at the very least create an option we could choose to enable to automatically reboot the TiVo when they occur, or at some reasonable schedulable time afterwords.

Tuner's just stop working.

Rebooting is almost a daily necessity just to have more than an 80% chance of everything recording.

And now I discover first-hand some things I've heard mention of before... while a C133 error happens -- ostensibly because TiVo's servers have a problem again -- you can't even make the stupid Roamio stop a recording in progress.

WHAT A PILE OF GARBAGE.

TiVo should fire every single person who designs or writes code for them because this is just totally absurd form every sort of usability standpoint any reasonable person could ever manage to come up with. TiVo should be HUGELY ASHAMED of what their products have become.

I've got a neighbor going through similar issues with an XL4. They just resorted to scheduling a 4am daily reboot with a power controller.

I am so very thankful I resisted replacing a TiVo HD with a Roamio and a couple Mini's for my parents this Christmas... but I just was so uncomfortable about the myriad of issues to add a remote headache like this, and things have only gotten worse since the holidays.

This is completely unacceptable. Anyone considering a TiVo Roamio model should wait until these reports completely stop and fixes are in place and things are stable. 

MAKE IT CLEAR TO EVERYONE THAT FIXING EVERY ONE OF THESE THINGS IS A NUMBER-ONE PRIORITY.


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## tarheelblue32

Sorry you are having problems, but my Roamio works very well.


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## SullyND

My Roamio has been my best TiVo by far.


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## southerndoc

I believe I saw on Margret's twitter feed that the CableCARD reboot issue will be fixed with the upcoming update. I'm not sure what kind of problem you're having as I've never had to reboot my Roamio for a lockup. The only thing I've had to reboot is several Minis after an update (for some reason it doesn't start up properly sometimes).


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## Diacritical

I've only had mine for a few months, but the only time I've ever seen a C133 error was when my network was down. I have seen three reboots when using the remote and the unit was heavily loaded and the SDV box has needed to be reset four times -- the first is a tivo problem and the second a TimeWarner one.

Still the best Tivo I've had, and I've had quite a few over the years.


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## Sixto

I wonder what your issue is. My 7 boxes on FiOS have been awesome. I did have the reboot issue a month or so ago but they fixed that. I know no one ever wants to hear that others are fine, but I've been real happy.

Good luck with whatever your issue is, maybe the update this week will help. Hope so.


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## dbattaglia001

I'm happy as can be with my Roamio. One reboot when I first got it, but nothing for a couple months now. I applaud TiVo in a quality product.


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## L David Matheny

dswallow said:


> ...
> MAKE IT CLEAR TO EVERYONE THAT FIXING EVERY ONE OF THESE THINGS IS A NUMBER-ONE PRIORITY.


To be fair, TiVo undertook an ambitious rewrite of their software to add many new features, and it's not surprising that they also added many new bugs. It would be nice if more bugs had been caught during beta testing, but I suspect that they're now working diligently to get everything fixed in the Spring update. Some of the irritants you mention may have been easy to fix, but unfortunately some serious issues like the glitch after single-tuner overlap may have required considerable work (and time) to fix properly.


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## BlackBetty

SullyND said:


> My Roamio has been my best TiVo by far.





dbattaglia001 said:


> I'm happy as can be with my Roamio. One reboot when I first got it, but nothing for a couple months now. I applaud TiVo in a quality product.


I couldn't agree more with the two quotes above. I went from a premiere to the roamio. Couldn't be happier. Best DVR hands down.


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## kbmb

I had my fair share of initial issues with the Roamio....and still am baffled that things like the overlap glitches and missed recordings have gone unfixed for so long. Yes the C133 errors are pretty much a joke. But overall, I'm glad I switched my TivoHD to two Roamios in the house. Our main one has been up for 86 days so far with no issues.

Hope some of your issues get solved in the Spring update.

-Kevin


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## DigitalDawn

Hi Doug,

It's been a really long time. Nice to see you here.

Anyway, after getting my cable cards updated to 1.5.3 1101 my Roamio Pro, XL4 and even my PC's Ceton tuner have all been working great. 

I can see you are really frustrated and I'm sorry for all that. Let's see what happens with the Spring update.

Dawn Gordon Luks (CEForum -- remember??)

P.S. I'm a TiVo dealer as well, so I may be able to help.


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## LoadStar

Without piling on, I would have to say that compared to my TiVo HD, my Roamio has been much better about issues related to cablecards and tuning adapters. The constant irritation with my TiVo HD where SDV channels refused to tune in on first attempt (requiring a channel-up then channel-down to get them to display anything but a black screen) has gone away. For the very large majority of the time, my TiVo Roamio (Pro) has "just worked."

I won't fool anyone by saying I haven't had any issues. Yes, the C133 issues with TiVo services were a bit annoying, but I don't remember them being a show-stopper when they happen. Although they happen more than I think they should for a production service, they don't seem to happen that much. It's just extremely obvious when they do. And yes, I do still have issues with tuning in things that periodically require me to reboot my Tuning Adapter... but mostly those seem to be issues with the cable plant, not with the TiVo.

In my experience, TiVo *can* work, but it does require the cable provider to get everything absolutely right with the signal coming into the building. Any least thing slightly out of spec (SNR, upstream power, downstream power, you name it) and it's a recipe for frustration.


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## Joe01880

I have not had any issues with my Roamio Pro. I also own a TiVo HD and a Premiere, there is no comparison between them and the Roamio Pro. 
The Roamio Pro is thoroughbred and the TiVo's before it just something less. 


Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk


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## tomhorsley

To some extent, these really are cable card problems, but TiVo clearly worked much better with bad cable cards before the big update that made everything crap out. TiVo clearly chose the path of pointing at the cable card spec and whining that it wasn't their fault rather than trying to work around the problem by being more gentle with the poor brain damaged cable cards. This may be technically correct, but it isn't very helpful to their customers on cable systems that won't update firmware.

Once comcast really did update the firmware, all my problems vanished, so the cable cards are certainly worth blaming here, but it is also true that TiVo's software made the old cable cards look a lot worse.


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## Pennsylvan6500

dswallow said:


> And now I discover first-hand some things I've heard mention of before... while a C133 error happens -- ostensibly because TiVo's servers have a problem again -- you can't even make the stupid Roamio stop a recording in progress.


This is the only part I agree with. Tivo needs to make the machines work the way they did before they insisted on having a 24 hr internet connection. Nothing on the internet side should stop the basic functions from working properly. Full Stop.



dswallow said:


> MAKE IT CLEAR TO EVERYONE THAT FIXING EVERY ONE OF THESE THINGS IS A NUMBER-ONE PRIORITY.


Read that again. They can't all be number one. Making the machines work as I stated above is step one to making them more usable. Once they stop the buggy parts for screwing up the machine's basic function, that will buy them time to fix other stuff.


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## dlfl

LoadStar said:


> Without piling on, I would have to say that compared to my TiVo HD, my Roamio has been much better about issues related to cablecards and tuning adapters. The constant irritation with my TiVo HD where SDV channels refused to tune in on first attempt (requiring a channel-up then channel-down to get them to display anything but a black screen) has gone away. For the very large majority of the time, my TiVo Roamio (Pro) has "just worked."
> ..........


Glad the Roamio is much better than a Tivo HD, although that's not much of a standard for comparison. I attribute most of my (Tivo HD) problems to Time Warner's abysmal support for CableCARD and TA's but the fact that Roamios are much better shows that TiVo could have designed better to surmount the problems. Perhaps it took all these years of experience with Series 3 and 4 units for Tivo to learn what needed to be done. (?)

I got my THD in June 2009 and if I had known all the hassle I was going to have keeping it going .... well I don't know what I would have done. I'm caught between two monopolies (TWC for cable TV and Tivo for cable DVR's with reasonable features and performance).


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## spaldingclan

sorry to hear you've had problems. My Roamio is easily better in everyway to every other model I've owned (4 generations so far)


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## aristoBrat

LoadStar said:


> In my experience, TiVo *can* work, but it does require the cable provider to get everything absolutely right with the signal coming into the building. Any least thing slightly out of spec (SNR, upstream power, downstream power, you name it) and it's a recipe for frustration.





dswallow said:


> They've been sitting around blaming CableCARDs for innumerable problems and doing nothing to make anything better, whether or not that really is the problem. They know when these problems occur. They could at the very least create an option we could choose to enable to automatically reboot the TiVo when they occur, or at some reasonable schedulable time afterwords.


I agree with both of these, especially with the point about the TiVo hardware being capable of determining when things with SNR, power, cable card version, etc are "out of bounds".

If the TiVo could have given me a notification that the SNR was ungodly high, and provided a simple URL that would have explained how I could have gone about lowering it, it would have saved me several hours of wasted time.

Having said that, with the SNR lowered, I've had no real issues with my Roamio Pro.

But if you asked me during the period it took to figure that out, I would have definitely agreed with the OP.


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## dswallow

DigitalDawn said:


> Hi Doug,
> 
> It's been a really long time. Nice to see you here.
> 
> Anyway, after getting my cable cards updated to 1.5.3 1101 my Roamio Pro, XL4 and even my PC's Ceton tuner have all been working great.
> 
> I can see you are really frustrated and I'm sorry for all that. Let's see what happens with the Spring update.
> 
> Dawn Gordon Luks (CEForum -- remember??)
> 
> P.S. I'm a TiVo dealer as well, so I may be able to help.


Yeah, Wow, long time! Nice to see ya! I still miss those days -- the people from those days, I mean... not the CompuServe bills.

I have no doubt that CableCARD firmware will address the most recent unreliability, but it is TiVo's reputation getting damaged when $1,000 of equipment/service is as unreliable as any cable DVR ever has been.

BTW, since it seems maybe my "reboot" issue was misunderstood based on some replies here -- it's that I have to reboot to get the decoding functional again, not that it "locks up" so much; though either way it's not much different than being a brick... recording blank screens versus not trying to record at all. (Though actually one time I was just watching a recording in the middle of the evening and it spontaneously decided to reboot... wasn't impressed by that much either, but I've not noticed it happen again, so out of sight, out of mind, I guess.)

The one thing I could always count on with TiVo is that if I set something to record, it recorded. The network/channel could possibly screw me over by delaying the start. But it'd still record. And the last month or two it has gotten worse over where it was before and the few months before that weren't exactly reliable.

And I still have my XL4 connected, right next to the Roamio Pro, split from the same cable. And except of course for things I've only set up season passes for on the Roamio, I can almost always just switch the XL4 and catch what the Roamio couldn't record/coudn't decode.


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## Mr. Toad

I think you might have a problem with the individual unit. I have had mine for about 5 months and never had a problem with it recording blank screens or rebooting. 

I have had a problem with Comcast on demand not working. When this happens I force the unit to connect to tivo. I can than use on demand. 

The other issue I have had is the wrong show downloading to the iPad. They really need to fix the iPad app and get the Android version out. 

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## MScottC

I have had my Roamio Plus and a Mini since the the Roamio first came out. Other than networking issues through green switches, their operation has been flawless. I eliminated the green switches in the path between the two and I've been a very very happy customer.


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## bcfedee

Pennsylvan6500 said:


> This is the only part I agree with. Tivo needs to make the machines work the way they did before they insisted on having a 24 hr internet connection. Nothing on the internet side should stop the basic functions from working properly. Full Stop.


The Roamio doesn't work the same as TivoHD for internet access? What do you mean 24hr internet connection? Doesn't Tivo just use the internet for updates and then only for Streaming purposes. No stream = no internet connection, right?


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## CrispyCritter

bcfedee said:


> The Roamio doesn't work the same as TivoHD for internet access? What do you mean 24hr internet connection? Doesn't Tivo just use the internet for updates and then only for Streaming purposes. No stream = no internet connection, right?


The HDUI has multiple connections to the internet pretty much every movement you make within the menu system. In addition, the TiVo itself sends a "text message" over the internet every 10 seconds or so (to see if anybody wants to download anything to it.)


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## mattack

The constant net connection is by far the worst thing about current Tivos.. The fact that I can't even do a VIEW UPCOMING when *THEIR SERVERS* are down is bad design. I can't download/stream to my iPad when *THEIR SERVERS* are down, even though I can download to a computer with kmttg, is bad design..

But I still appreciate having 6 tuners... Though I actually watch most of my Roamio content 'through' my Premiere 4 (yeah I keep saying I'm going to sell it), because my [email protected]$# cable company does a "required test" every Fri and/or Sat at 1AM, ruining recordings.. So I leave the Roamio in standby.


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## DigitalDawn

Doug,

Who's your cable provider, what's the model number of your CC, and what's the firmware it's using?

I can *almost* guarantee that the problem is your cable card. Either the cable-card model isn't correct for 6 tuners, (like a card that's older than an 800 series) or the firmware needs to be updated. 

I was in TiVo hell, starting with the XL4 last year. For over 13 months I lost CC pairing every 3-4 weeks. I had at least 7 service calls, 20 or more calls into Comcast tech support etc. It was even worse with the Roamio and after Comcast did something strange at their head end in West Palm Beach last November, my TiVos couldn't hold on to pairing for more than 5 minutes. After some major nagging, (Ron's says I'm good at that) Comcast downloaded 1.5.3 11.01 into all Palm Beach County Cable cards and all pairing/tuning problems were completely gone. My Ceton PC tuner card that had been very flaky suddenly was working properly. That alone led me to understand that the problems were with the cable cards and not the TiVo. 

The way I look at it, is that TiVo has no choice -- they have to rely on third party equipment. If that equipment is old, and/or not updated, then TiVo can't function properly. The good news is that Comcast and some other cable operators have been trying to update their equipment, and in most markets TiVo owners have been accommodated. 

I'm hoping that we can get you the latest CC/firmware and that will solve your problems.


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## dlfl

And if you're using a Cisco STA1520 Tuning Adapter, I believe the firmware on that needs to be F.1901 to support Roamio. In the last two or three months my TWC (SW Ohio) *finally* pushed firmware updates to both CC and TA. I was told the TA updates were for Roamio's and they were being done nationally, although not simultaneously, on all TWC systems. (If there is any TWC system that would be a laggard in this, it's mine.)


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## mburnno

You know there will be a time when Comcast will surpass Tivo given all of their quality issues surrounding the latest generation of Tivo's. It has always amazed me when someone is having a Tivo problem and they vent about it, which is their right and then afterwards users post just how wonderful their experience has been. Really Really, I just find this hard to believe. Not one single problem that has pissed you off to the point of where you are willing to chunk the Tivo out the window?


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## moyekj

I'm no TiVo apologist (quite the opposite historically), but for me my Roamio Pro has been the most trouble free and by far the best TiVo experience so far. I've been in the other boat though with serious problems that either took forever to be resolved or were never resolved for that hardware platform, so I have empathy for those experiencing problems. Premiere Elite is the platform I probably came closest to wanting to throw out a window it was so frustratingly slow and buggy for me.


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## brianric

I'm one of those who thinks the Roamio Pro is the most bug infected dvr out of the three Tivo's I owned. Having said that I do have a Premiere XL that works fine. No longer have my Series 2. I've been with Tivo since 2002, and when they're working, is the best dvr on the market IMHO. Kind of hard to throw away when you got over a grand tied up in my two remaining Tivos. I've tried a Comcast dvr, no thank you. Right now I'm with the OP, I will not recommend a Tivo to anyone until the bugs are fixed.


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## atmuscarella

mburnno said:


> You know there will be a time when Comcast will surpass Tivo given all of their quality issues surrounding the latest generation of Tivo's. It has always amazed me when someone is having a Tivo problem and they vent about it, which is their right and then afterwards users post just how wonderful their experience has been. Really Really, I just find this hard to believe. Not one single problem that has pissed you off to the point of where you are willing to chunk the Tivo out the window?


Actually when I have problems with any electronic device/computer I find it useful to know if other people are having the same issues or not. So I want people to post if they are not having the same issues I am having. It really is the only way to know if there is a global problem with the product or if the issue is limited or specific to my device.

I am 100% sure that some Roamio's are or become defective, I think there are times when TiVo is a little to reluctant to replace a unit, and I do find that to be a problem. Also it is certainly clear that there are some issues when certain cable cards and/or tuning adapters are used on some cable provider's systems. What is not clear is if this issue is truly a global problem with TiVo's hardware and/or software that TiVo can fix it or not. Given that many people do not have the problem and that it gets fixed for others when their cable card and/or tuning adapter's firmware is updated, I have my doubts.

To answer your question my Roamio has not "pissed me off" and I certainly do not want to through it out a window. That doesn't mean there haven't been cliches there has, but over all I give it a big thumbs up (however I am OTA only and do not have to deal with cable cards or tuning adapters).


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## bobfrank

mburnno said:


> It has always amazed me when someone is having a Tivo problem and they vent about it, which is their right and then afterwards users post just how wonderful their experience has been. Really Really, I just find this hard to believe. Not one single problem that has pissed you off to the point of where you are willing to chunk the Tivo out the window?


You should really really believe that I have *never *had a problem with any Tivo that made me want to get rid of it. I've had a S1, S2, S3, THD, (skipped the Premiere) and now a Roamio and 2 Minis.

There have occasionally been small glitches, but never anything major.

Sorry you don't believe all the posters here that report no major problems. We believe you've had trouble, but that would seem to be limited something specific to your Tivo.


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## HenryFarpolo

Count me as one who in all the years I have had TIVO I have NEVER called customer service for anything beyond getting product info or making a billing change............Knock on wood.


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## Grakthis

I'm on my... uh...4th TiVo + 1 mini... and I've never had a problem that made me want to chuck my TiVo out of the window.

I guess when my S3 died and I had to put a new HD in it, I was frustrated?

My Roamio has been flawless so far.

It seems like I always dodge the bugs others have... the reboot issues on the Premiere, the install issues with the S3, the overlapping recording issues with the Roamio... none of that ever seems to be my use case. Every complaint people post here, I'm like "hasn't happened to me yet."

I guess I am frustrated that when I bought my S3 TiVo kept saying that when M-cards came out, it would support a single m-card. and then M-cards came out and they went "nah, changed our minds. You still need 2." That and ANDROID STREAMING etc etc etc.


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## tomhorsley

mburnno said:


> Not one single problem that has pissed you off to the point of where you are willing to chunk the Tivo out the window?


I waited till comcast updated the cable card firmware to see my Premiere functioning correctly (i.e. able to channel surf without getting errors) to verify that the cable card firmware really was the main issue. Then I bought a Roamio and transferred the same cable card to it (now using the old Premiere for OTA and streaming).

No way was I going to buy a Roamio till I saw the Premiere start working again because with cable card problems, it would likely have been even worse trying to get 6 tuners to work.


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## fletchoman

I agree with original post.

I am a long time Tivo fan/customer but Tivo-Roamio has been nothing but trouble for me. 

I am on my second Roamio because Tivo thought that nobody could be having as many problems as I was seeing. The second unit had the exact same problems as the first...and have continued to this day.

The last time I called Tivo, they recommended that I use a Motorola cable card. Unfortunately, Comcast only supports Cisco where I am located.

My system fails to record scheduled programming at least once a week. I have posted pictures showing the state of the tuners when my system fails. At this point I don't care who is at fault, Tivo is responsible; They have to make sure they can make it work. 

After years of flawless recording with previous Tivo generations, I find that Roamio is a giant dud that I give 1/10 rating.


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## mburnno

bobfrank said:


> You should really really believe that I have *never *had a problem with any Tivo that made me want to get rid of it. I've had a S1, S2, S3, THD, (skipped the Premiere) and now a Roamio and 2 Minis.
> 
> There have occasionally been small glitches, but never anything major.
> 
> Sorry you don't believe all the posters here that report no major problems. We believe you've had trouble, but that would seem to be limited something specific to your Tivo.


It is more to the effect that only a limited bunch of users are having problems. I will be the first to admit that I have had a ton of problems with the Roamio's but the previous model hardly ever. I think the most frustrating thing with Tivo is when the support really doesn't believe you and later on they release a patch that fixes the damn problem you were having in the beginning.


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## Bigg

fletchoman said:


> I agree with original post.
> 
> I am a long time Tivo fan/customer but Tivo-Roamio has been nothing but trouble for me.
> 
> I am on my second Roamio because Tivo thought that nobody could be having as many problems as I was seeing. The second unit had the exact same problems as the first...and have continued to this day.
> 
> The last time I called Tivo, they recommended that I use a Motorola cable card. Unfortunately, Comcast only supports Cisco where I am located.
> 
> My system fails to record scheduled programming at least once a week. I have posted pictures showing the state of the tuners when my system fails. At this point I don't care who is at fault, Tivo is responsible; They have to make sure they can make it work.
> 
> After years of flawless recording with previous Tivo generations, I find that Roamio is a giant dud that I give 1/10 rating.


That's BS... TiVos should work just as well with Sci Atlanta systems. My XL4 is fine on an ancient 650mhz Sci Atlanta Comcast system. It lost the CableCard pairing a handful of times, but that's a Comcast issue, not TiVo, and a quick call to Comcast always fixes it.


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## Joe01880

HenryFarpolo said:


> Count me as one who in all the years I have had TIVO I have NEVER called customer service for anything beyond getting product info or making a billing change............Knock on wood.


+1
Ditto


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## BadDuck

Joe01880 said:


> +1
> Ditto


+1


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## c133roamioerrors

Tivo should never have sold the Roamio with an internal wireless adapter. There's an unwritten rule here, don't use wireless; either hard wired or mocha. A poor slob like me didn't know the secret handshake and my roamio pro was a real pos. After paying for netgear consulting, I was able to change the router settings and am using a netgear range extender connected to the Ethernet. It works fine now. I had a TiVo xl4 and it worked right out of the box without having to futz with the wireless. The roamio experience was very disappointing.


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## twhiting9275

HenryFarpolo said:


> Count me as one who in all the years I have had TIVO I have NEVER called customer service for anything beyond getting product info or making a billing change............Knock on wood.


++++1
Been a TiVo customer since 2006, the Roamio is by far the best device I've seen from TiVo, though I've never had to call them, aside from when I had to drop devices for new ones.
STILL waiting on Amazon prime video, though I think at this point it'll just never happen.


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## jrtroo

Look, if the OPs issues were a pandemic, this board would be the first place it would be reported. over an over and over again. Not that these issues are not real and impact a few folks in a major way, they clearly do.

Hard to say from here what is unique about these cases. They obviously suck, and its unfortunate that multiple parties are involved. What would be great if someone had the time to compile the issues and related solutions. 

If skimming through these, other than the occasional broken box, it appears that the predominance of issues are caused by the local carrier. It has yet to be demonstrated that Tivo is at fault. I'm not saying they are not, but that has not been shown to be the case (other than the "broken box" noted earlier).


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## pmiranda

fletchoman said:


> My system fails to record scheduled programming at least once a week. I have posted pictures showing the state of the tuners when my system fails. At this point I don't care who is at fault, Tivo is responsible; They have to make sure they can make it work.


Did you have a 4th or 3rd gen tivo working before this? If not, then the problem is very likely with the cable company's hardware or software and while you can blame TiVo all you want, they can't fix it.

I never thought I'd say this, but I'm glad to be on Time Warner. Their national self-install hotline has fixed every problem I've had in the last few years. I just wish I didn't need to reboot the tuning adapters every month or so. FWIW, my TiVos now lose recordings less often than my TW DVR did way back before the series 3 came out.


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## nyjklein

c133roamioerrors said:


> Tivo should never have sold the Roamio with an internal wireless adapter. There's an unwritten rule here, don't use wireless; either hard wired or mocha. A poor slob like me didn't know the secret handshake and my roamio pro was a real pos. After paying for netgear consulting, I was able to change the router settings and am using a netgear range extender connected to the Ethernet. It works fine now. I had a TiVo xl4 and it worked right out of the box without having to futz with the wireless. The roamio experience was very disappointing.


This is a perfect example of how TiVo loses in some peoples' view no matter what it does. TiVo had the crap beat out of them literally for years for *not* including a built-in wireless adapter. After all, the wireless chipset is so cheap how much extra would it cost to include? But TiVo recognized that the unpredictability of wireless connections especially with an internal antenna from a box that's often in a semi-confined cabinet would be problematic. But they finally broke down and included the built-in wireless and of course some people are complaining about that for entirely predictable reasons.

Sheesh.

Jeff


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## jwbelcher

nyjklein said:


> This is a perfect example of how TiVo loses in some peoples' view no matter what it does. TiVo had the crap beat out of them literally for years for *not* including a built-in wireless adapter. After all, the wireless chipset is so cheap how much extra would it cost to include? But TiVo recognized that the unpredictability of wireless connections especially with an internal antenna from a box that's often in a semi-confined cabinet would be problematic. But they finally broke down and included the built-in wireless and of course some people are complaining about that for entirely predictable reasons.
> 
> Sheesh.
> 
> Jeff


Agreed! You know, it would only take one software update to go back to the old way. Be careful what you ask for!


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## aaronwt

c133roamioerrors said:


> Tivo should never have sold the Roamio with an internal wireless adapter. There's an unwritten rule here, don't use wireless; either hard wired or mocha. A poor slob like me didn't know the secret handshake and my roamio pro was a real pos. After paying for netgear consulting, I was able to change the router settings and am using a netgear range extender connected to the Ethernet. It works fine now. I had a TiVo xl4 and it worked right out of the box without having to futz with the wireless. The roamio experience was very disappointing.


My Roamio Basic experience with wireless has been excellent. No issues. And from a user perspective watching content remotely from the Basic on two wired Minis, a wired Roamio Pro, and a wired Premiere has been identical to me watching remotely from my wired Roamio Pro and Premiere.

With a properly setup wireless network there will be no issues.


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## Bierboy

bobfrank said:


> You should really really believe that I have *never *had a problem with any Tivo that made me want to get rid of it....


Add me to that party. I've had the S2, S3 and now S4 (Premiere)...


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## truman861

In my opinion, the problem is Time Warner and the cable cards / TA's. Ive had many problems and almost always was with the TW Service or equipment. I have gone from S2 to S3, Premiers, and now only use my Roamio Plus with 3 minis, about to switch to Verizon Fios in 2 weeks time. Good riddance TW Problems.


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## dkraft

My Roamio cannot even keep 4 tuners working. Then I get Xfinity on Demand and think at least I can watch what the Tivo did not record by using ON DEMAND. Then ON DEMAND goes out. I am happy for all those that have a Roamio and it is working correctly. But for those of us that bought one and are having only 4 tuners and then have the 4 tuners not work have every right to complain. Tivo did NOT do the proper testing on the Roamio before release. If they had done the correct testing the unit would not have been released. Do we really believe Tivo did NOT know about the cable card problem?


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## jrtroo

How can Tivo know about a single bad cablecard pairing (which sounds like your issue) or setup by another party? There are tons of different local headends to contend with, that is why there are standards.


----------



## abovethesink

I had C133 errors out of the kazoo when I tried to be wireless. I had to reboot several times a day either the router or the box. But ever since I re-arranged my house to wire the Roamio that end has been perfect. I also don't get a bunch of channels that I should get, but that is assuredly a TWC cable issue that I could likely get fixed by calling them. They have conditioned me to avoid calling their CSRs at all costs though so for now I just don't get certain channels. My tuners work great and for some reason I don't have any issues when I have recordings overlapping as described on this board as causing problems, but I don't do that often.


----------



## Bigg

nyjklein said:


> This is a perfect example of how TiVo loses in some peoples' view no matter what it does. TiVo had the crap beat out of them literally for years for *not* including a built-in wireless adapter. After all, the wireless chipset is so cheap how much extra would it cost to include? But TiVo recognized that the unpredictability of wireless connections especially with an internal antenna from a box that's often in a semi-confined cabinet would be problematic. But they finally broke down and included the built-in wireless and of course some people are complaining about that for entirely predictable reasons.
> 
> Sheesh.
> 
> Jeff


Yeah, damned if you do, damned if you don't. Anything near a TV should always be hard wired in some manner. Likely MoCA, since many people don't have hardwired gigabit available everywhere, although that's obviously the ultimate.


----------



## Scooterj

The C 133 issue is a pain. I have had the Roamio since december and this issue seems to happen more and more.


----------



## stahta01

aaronwt said:


> My Roamio Basic experience with wireless has been excellent. No issues. And from a user perspective watching content remotely from the Basic on two wired Minis, a wired Roamio Pro, and a wired Premiere has been identical to me watching remotely from my wired Roamio Pro and Premiere.
> 
> With a properly setup wireless network there will be no issues.


Thank you about mentioning Roamio Basic experience. I figure if I am lucky in a year or two, I might get a Roamio Basic or earlier model of TiVo able to do over the air DTV.


----------



## CrispyCritter

Scooterj said:


> The C 133 issue is a pain. I have had the Roamio since december and this issue seems to happen more and more.


If you're getting C133 errors often, then your local network is at fault. Except for 4-5 well publicized (here) incidents over the past 8 months, C133 errors are local and mean your TiVo can't connect to working sites on the internet. There is hardware somewhere not operating correctly - it could be in your TiVo, but is more likely to be elsewhere in your local network.

You're also reporting MLB.tv problems - that again points to problems in your network.


----------



## twhiting9275

aaronwt said:


> With a properly setup wireless network there will be no issues.


Nonsense
Wireless networks have nowhere near the capability of traffic handling that a wired one does. Sorry, but that's ust how it is.

There's a REASON that professionals use wired networks whenever possible, when dealing with the massive size of files you're seeing here. Data is transferred faster, easier, without any issues.

From my own experience:
Using two Tivos, transferring shows to the PC, and FROM the PC at the same time:

Wireless - continual buffering, the show just didn't get there at all, without at least 10-20 minutes of buffer
Wired - zero issues at all. Not even noticeable

Now, why would one want to do this? Well, let's take my own use here
I watch TV with friends. This means that usually, I sit on shows (after editing them) for a few days, sometimes a couple weeks. Inevitably, you're going to have circumstances when you're watching shows in prime time, when shows are being transferred around (from box A to PC, from box B to PC, etc).

The same can be said for streaming video, from anywhere. ANY time that I've seen issues with this, simply connecting to the hard wired port works just fine.

Don't get me wrong, wireless networks are great for some things , but in the end, you want to have a hard wired connection when dealing with things like video, gaming, etc. Otherwise, it's just a bad, bad thing all around


----------



## abovethesink

CrispyCritter said:


> If you're getting C133 errors often, then your local network is at fault. Except for 4-5 well publicized (here) incidents over the past 8 months, C133 errors are local and mean your TiVo can't connect to working sites on the internet. There is hardware somewhere not operating correctly - it could be in your TiVo, but is more likely to be elsewhere in your local network.
> 
> You're also reporting MLB.tv problems - that again points to problems in your network.


Maybe, but for the vast majority of us (and I did A LOT of reading at the time) the Roamio was the only device on the network with any issues. For me I had two tablets (iOS and Android), two phones (Windows Phone 8 and Android), a desktop (Windows 7), a laptop (Windows 8), a Xbox 360, a Wii U, a Roku 2, an iPod Touch, and a couple other old devices in my family that would occasionally get booted up. Most those things get very light to light usage, but no matter the usage level, none of them had any wireless connectivity issues. My Roamio basic did though, thrice daily on average it needed to be rebooted or needed the router to be.

This is the same story people post quite regularly. So perhaps, yes, there is a setting all of us manage to have that prevents the Roamio from having a stable, consistent wireless connection, but given that this mythical setting impacts NOTHING else then it is in actuality a TiVo issue anyway. The wireless should work as well with the same settings as everything else.

I ended up rearranging my entire networking situation physically to have the router close enough to Roamio to wire it. I haven't seen a C133 since. From my experience people are right to say don't bother going wireless, but it is not like I was trying to connect to a mini that way. I just needed guide data, more or less.


----------



## aaronwt

twhiting9275 said:


> Nonsense
> Wireless networks have nowhere near the capability of traffic handling that a wired one does. Sorry, but that's ust how it is.
> 
> There's a REASON that professionals use wired networks whenever possible, when dealing with the massive size of files you're seeing here. Data is transferred faster, easier, without any issues.
> 
> From my own experience:
> Using two Tivos, transferring shows to the PC, and FROM the PC at the same time:
> 
> Wireless - continual buffering, the show just didn't get there at all, without at least 10-20 minutes of buffer
> Wired - zero issues at all. Not even noticeable
> 
> Now, why would one want to do this? Well, let's take my own use here
> I watch TV with friends. This means that usually, I sit on shows (after editing them) for a few days, sometimes a couple weeks. Inevitably, you're going to have circumstances when you're watching shows in prime time, when shows are being transferred around (from box A to PC, from box B to PC, etc).
> 
> The same can be said for streaming video, from anywhere. ANY time that I've seen issues with this, simply connecting to the hard wired port works just fine.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, wireless networks are great for some things , but in the end, you want to have a hard wired connection when dealing with things like video, gaming, etc. Otherwise, it's just a bad, bad thing all around


If you had those issues then your WiFi network was not setup properly. A properly setup WiFi network will not get saturated and devices will have stong signal strengths. Which means you also need multiple APs.

I can do exactly what you had setup and I will not have buffering issues. Now granted it will take longer for the shows to transfer since the wireless bandwidth is shared, but with my properly setup WifI network I will have no issues. Plus I typically transfer in one direction at a time from my Roamio Basic because the speeds are slower than my Romaio Pro.(Even if I used the wired connection I would do the same thing. Since the speeds are the same from the wired 100BT connection as the wireless).

I have a few dozen devices on WiFi and a few dozen on my wired gigabit backbone. There is no way I could run everything wirelessly. Plus I want to have 900+mbps transfer rates between my PCs which would not be possible over wireless. But using my Roamio Basic over wireless i can transfer to the PC and from the PC concurrently with no issues. Or I can stream several shows concurrently to my two Minis and Roamio Pro from my Roamio Basic on wireless with no issues.

The reason I have my Roamio Basic on wireless is because I take this box back and forth to my GFs house. I have a power supply and remote at her house, so all I need to do is unplug it and throw it in a bag. By using wireless that is one less thing I need to connect and disconnect. Now if I did not get decent speeds i would have to use the wired connection. But the speeds I get from wireless, as reported on the DVr diagnostics page, are the same as when I've had an ethernet connection on the 100BT port. They both max out around 93Mbps.


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## mike3775

I agree with OP. The wifi streaming is very hit or miss for me lately and its only getting worse as time goes on.

It HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY NETWORK, its on the device end. IO know this because I can be streaming to my iPad and have it suddenly cut off, then try to reconnect and get the damn set up screen again and again, and never get reconnected to the tivo UNLESS I FREIKING REBOOT THE TIVO. Once or twice a week, no issue, but EVERY FREIKING DAY? OUTRAGEOUS.

Its not my network, because right now, I can't connect to my roamio on my iPad or iPod, it can't even find my device, yet for some silly reason, I can connect to WWE Network, Amazon, or Netflix though. Amazing how its just my Roamio having connection issues, which rules out it being my network since EVERYTHING ELSE WORKS FINE. Heck I am posting this on a wifi connected PC, not wired. 

All this started about a month ago and its been getting worse. Yesterday I couldn't even connect to my device from school via wifi, nor could I Monday, and I thought maybe the school is blocking, but nope, they not blocking it. 

And customer support is a freiking joke. "its on your network end" is all those idiots can say over and over, no matter how high up the pecking order I go with them. 

I am about ready to junk this thing and go back to my comcast DVR and download the comcast app to allow me to stream to my devices, atleast I can stream shows to them without having to reboot the device every single day


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## jrtroo

Wifi streaming does not use the wifi from the tivo box directly to your device. That signal comes from your router, regardless of how the data gets from the tivo to the router.


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## c133roamioerrors

As an average consumer, I trust the manufacturer to provide a dvr that works out of the box or gives options other than hard wired. My xl4 worked right out of the box with the external wireless adapter and no tweaking of my wireless set up. I upgraded to a roamio pro to get a better Netflix interface and two more tuners. It took months and dollars to get it right. You would think that before releasing the pro, they would have tested various wireless configurations using the internal adapter. I don't remember seeing a disclaimer that the internal adapter might not work under certain circumstances. Tivo customer service and documentation wasn't much help. 

A feature that doesn't work provides negative value. My experience with the XL4 raised my expectations and increased my disappointment.


----------



## Bigg

c133roamioerrors said:


> As an average consumer, I trust the manufacturer to provide a dvr that works out of the box or gives options other than hard wired. My xl4 worked right out of the box with the external wireless adapter and no tweaking of my wireless set up. I upgraded to a roamio pro to get a better Netflix interface and two more tuners. It took months and dollars to get it right. You would think that before releasing the pro, they would have tested various wireless configurations using the internal adapter. I don't remember seeing a disclaimer that the internal adapter might not work under certain circumstances. Tivo customer service and documentation wasn't much help.
> 
> A feature that doesn't work provides negative value. My experience with the XL4 raised my expectations and increased my disappointment.


Wireless of any type has that disclaimer implied. Even licensed wireless like cell phones. In every contract is a clause about coverage not being available everywhere. A $50 MoCA adapter doesn't exactly break the bank after buying an $1100 DVR, so I don't think the cost is a big deal.


----------



## KingPenguin

pmiranda said:


> Did you have a 4th or 3rd gen tivo working before this? If not, then the problem is very likely with the cable company's hardware or software and while you can blame TiVo all you want, they can't fix it.
> 
> I never thought I'd say this, but I'm glad to be on Time Warner. Their national self-install hotline has fixed every problem I've had in the last few years. I just wish I didn't need to reboot the tuning adapters every month or so. FWIW, my TiVos now lose recordings less often than my TW DVR did way back before the series 3 came out.


I can answer that. I convinced Fletchoman to buy a TivoHD years ago which we each had operating flawlessly. Then I sang the praises of my new Roamio and he picked one up. I spoke too soon. We're both on the same head-end and we both have weekly missed recordings.

It probably is the cable card, but what is a poor consumer to do? It's hard to get Comcast's attention when you're in a huge city. Tivo shares the blame because they sold the Roamio and need to figure out a way to help consumers like us.


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## bareyb

I'll admit this has given me pause. Normally I'm all over the latest and greatest TiVo if they come out with something significantly different. It's the one gadget I have that I use literally every day. I almost bought the six tuner Roamio Pro but with the problems these have I'm simply not going to risk it until I hear there have been some fixes. 

I can't have an unreliable DVR. It's my core entertainment and I count on it to record my shows. My Elite 4 Tuner crashes far more often than my Series 3 does and that's a pretty old machine. I hope they get it together because the Roamio sounds cool as hell and I would like to buy one.


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## dianebrat

bareyb said:


> I'll admit this has given me pause. Normally I'm all over the latest and greatest TiVo if they come out with something significantly different. It's the one gadget I have that I use literally every day. I almost bought the six tuner Roamio Pro but with the problems these have I'm simply not going to risk it until I hear there have been some fixes.
> 
> I can't have an unreliable DVR. It's my core entertainment and I count on it to record my shows. My Elite 4 Tuner crashes far more often than my Series 3 does and that's a pretty old machine. I hope they get it together because the Roamio sounds cool as hell and I would like to buy one.


There are a few folks with issues, and Doug certainly has a lemon in one way or another, but of the 3 Roamios I've had in the house, 2 temporarily, and one permanent, I have had an amazing zero issues, but then I have Verizon FiOS and have never had a CableCARD issue since i have no premiums and don't need pairing.


----------



## moonscape

Barey, I'm also in the Bay Area w/ Comcast and have cable card and premiums. It took a day or so for Comcast to get it right, but apart from a couple of brief C133 errors (I'm wireless), my Roamio Pro has worked wonderfully. I have moca to install but because I'm in an upstairs condo and can't tell where the cable enters (it's mysteriously present in 4 rooms plus loft) for filter installation, I'll need a truck roll and haven't been up to dealing w/ it. But at least the C133 doesn't affect recording and I've never lost a show.

This is of course anecdotal, but to my reading (and memory!) the anecdotal press here on the Roamio is far better than it ever was on the Premiere (which is why I skipped the later) so I took plunge and very glad I did.


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## lorenw

I was spoiled by how well the Directv machines function, But downsized from a house to an apt, and couldn't have a dish. Charter cable recorder proved to be a nightmare, missing shows, etc etc. 

My first Tivo was my Roamio and mini, it has been great. Sometimes it records reruns, when I select new only, but very minor at most. Mine has been great, Im quite happy.


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## CrispyCritter

I would say that the number of people with current serious continuing problems with the Roamio is smaller than the number of folks who had problems with the original S3 or S4 when they first came out. One big difference, though, is that the Roamio needs a robust local network and I suspect a lot of the problems are due to issues with the local network (whether due to TiVo errors, or router errors that the TiVo reacts badly to.) As such, it's often much harder and mysterious to get the Roamio working. The Roamio uses networking features like mDNS that are often not exercised by other network devices in the home. At a minimum, I think it's worthwhile for those folks with continuing problems to check lists like Chromecast problem routers and see if their router has issues.


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## SullyND

Hey Doug - Did you get the update yet? Any better?


----------



## vurbano

BlackBetty said:


> I couldn't agree more with the two quotes above. I went from a premiere to the roamio. Couldn't be happier. Best DVR hands down.


Add me to the list. I am very happy with the Roamio ystem


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## fletchoman

vurbano said:


> Add me to the list. I am very happy with the Roamio ystem


I really don't even need to make this stuff up. Imagine my surprise when I went to schedule the NCAA final...

and just to make sure that I have 6 tuners...I have manually recorded 6 shows before???

I submit that Tivo needs to make sure that they have a reliable product, because Roamio ain't even close...Is there anybody that thinks this isn't a Tivo bug?


----------



## aaronwt

fletchoman said:


> I really don't even need to make this stuff up. Imagine my surprise when I went to schedule the NCAA final...
> 
> and just to make sure that I have 6 tuners...I have manually recorded 6 shows before???
> 
> I submit that Tivo needs to make sure that they have a reliable product, because Roamio ain't even close...Is there anybody that thinks this isn't a Tivo bug?


I don't understand? Was there actually a conflict? My Roamio Pro has worked great, especially with conflicts I've had. Fortunately I rarely need to pad any shows. If I had to pad everything I would be constantly having conflicts since I regularly use four and five tuners concurrently, and most days have six tuners recording concurrently at some point.


----------



## fletchoman

aaronwt said:


> I don't understand? Was there actually a conflict?


Apparently you and TiVo... They don't even understand that their product is buggy...


----------



## twhiting9275

fletchoman said:


> Is there anybody that thinks this isn't a Tivo bug?


/raises hand
This has happened before, and the problem typically lies with the cablecard, NOT the device itself. Make sure your card can handle 6 tuners (even some M cards can't).


----------



## fletchoman

twhiting9275 said:


> /raises hand
> This has happened before, and the problem typically lies with the cablecard, NOT the device itself. Make sure your card can handle 6 tuners (even some M cards can't).


I have recorded six programs manually before... This is the first time that I have encountered more than four overlapping season passes... Begs the question do we really get to use 6 tuners.


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## L David Matheny

fletchoman said:


> I have recorded six programs manually before... This is the first time that I have encountered more than four overlapping season passes... Begs the question do we really get to use 6 tuners.


We're assuming that you haven't used any of the special magic key sequences that limit the number of tuners (due to obsolete cable cards or maybe some old TiVo problems). Does any of that ring a bell?


----------



## fletchoman

L David Matheny said:


> We're assuming that you haven't used any of the special magic key sequences that limit the number of tuners (due to obsolete cable cards or maybe some old TiVo problems). Does any of that ring a bell?


That was the reason I took a picture of my tuner state... If I had manually turned off two of the tuners to avoid "other" issues, then you would have seen it there. My system shows to have six available tuners...


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## aristoBrat

fletchoman said:


> Apparently you and TiVo... They don't even understand that their product is buggy...


Seen the thread for the Spring update? It's all bug fixes, so apparently someone at TiVo got the memo.



fletchoman said:


> I have recorded six programs manually before... This is the first time that I have encountered more than four overlapping season passes... Begs the question do we really get to use 6 tuners.


No clue why your TiVo's giving you that screen (do you have other shows recording from 7PM-8PM that are padded to record a few extra minutes?), but my Roamio regularly has all 6 tuners recording simultaneously Sunday nights at 10PM.


----------



## jwbelcher

fletchoman said:


> That was the reason I took a picture of my tuner state... If I had manually turned off two of the tuners to avoid "other" issues, then you would have seen it there. My system shows to have six available tuners...


Any possibility you actually had all your tuners tied up, but TiVo gave you a 4 tuner error message (incorrectly) rather than telling you that there were 6 higher programs scheduled?


----------



## fletchoman

jwbelcher said:


> Any possibility you actually had all your tuners tied up, but TiVo gave you a 4 tuner error message (incorrectly) rather than telling you that there were 6 higher programs scheduled?


The picture you saw was actually from my to do list... There were four program scheduled.

But at least nobody has criticized my programming selections...


----------



## aristoBrat

fletchoman said:


> The picture you saw was actually from my to do list... There were four program scheduled.


Wonder if this bug is triggered from you having set your TiVo between 4, 5, and 6 tuners a few months ago while you were waiting for your cable card firmware to be updated.

I'd guess that most folks here haven't done that, which might be why in terms of the known Roamio bugs that a lot of people are having, this doesn't seem to be one of them.


----------



## fletchoman

It is time that TiVo it acknowledged the problem... Instead of working on the spring update to fix a few aesthetics, they need to acknowledge that the Roamio's are failing to record.

I would like to see a list of issues that they are working on... Instead of putting lipstick on the pig

1. Failed to record due to lack of tuners
2. Failed to record due to lack of authorization
3. Failed to record due to lack of channel in lineup
4. Failed to record due to lack of signal strength

These are all the issues that I have seen in the last few months, i'm sure there are more...


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## dbattaglia001

Some people like to complain and find fault with everything, even things that are relatively minor in the grand scheme of things. For instance, "fletchoman" should be like, fine, I have a conflict when I shouldn't, so I'll just record another instance of Duck Dynasty that gets replayed a lot so that I can record the NCAA finals. 

I have had every iteration of TiVo device there is and have never had any insignificant problem that isn't related to (1) Cablecard and (2) a failed hard drive or 2. I applaud TiVo for making a superior product to what I'd get from the cable company, and less the cost over time.


----------



## twhiting9275

dbattaglia001 said:


> Some people like to complain and find fault with everything


Or just inappropriately blame someone (or something) else. You're right though.



dbattaglia001 said:


> I have had every iteration of TiVo device there is and have never had any insignificant problem that isn't related to (1) Cablecard and (2) a failed hard drive or 2. I applaud TiVo for making a superior product to what I'd get from the cable company, and less the cost over time.


I'm almost there. Every one since the 2. Not a single issue, still have a Premiere and a Roamio running in the house.

If you have issues, the odds are that it's NOT with the TiVo, but as mentioned earlier, your card, or your drive.

If this was a widespread issue, more than just a handful of people would be whining about it, and they'd have it fixed. The reality is that it's an issue with OTHER hardware, not TiVo


----------



## fletchoman

pmiranda said:


> Did you have a 4th or 3rd gen tivo working before this?


 I used a series3 for years trouble free and it never missed a recording that I knew of...I started by moving the cable card from it into my Roamio. Then I was told I needed a Roamio cable-card, but Comcast did not know what those are...i.e. they only have 1 type of card where I am located.

So I changed to a newer Cisco cable card, a new Roamio, an attenuator, 4 tuner limit, Tivo suggestions enabled, more recording, less recording, etc.

All said and done...nothing has helped. I also don't see any indication that Tivo is working to solve the problem...they are blaming someone else for the issue.

I make the point that I bought the solution from Tivo, they are responsible no matter where the issues reside.


----------



## aaronwt

fletchoman said:


> It is time that TiVo it acknowledged the problem... Instead of working on the spring update to fix a few aesthetics, they need to acknowledge that the Roamio's are failing to record.
> 
> I would like to see a list of issues that they are working on... Instead of putting lipstick on the pig
> 
> 1. Failed to record due to lack of tuners
> 2. Failed to record due to lack of authorization
> 3. Failed to record due to lack of channel in lineup
> 4. Failed to record due to lack of signal strength
> 
> These are all the issues that I have seen in the last few months, i'm sure there are more...


I've never seen any of those issues.


----------



## dbattaglia001

fletchoman said:


> I used a series3 for years trouble free and it never missed a recording that I knew of...I started by moving the cable card from it into my Roamio. Then I was told I needed a Roamio cable-card, but Comcast did not know what those are...i.e. they only have 1 type of card where I am located.
> 
> So I changed to a newer Cisco cable card, a new Roamio, an attenuator, 4 tuner limit, Tivo suggestions enabled, more recording, less recording, etc.
> 
> All said and done...nothing has helped. I also don't see any indication that Tivo is working to solve the problem...they are blaming someone else for the issue.
> 
> I make the point that I bought the solution from Tivo, they are responsible no matter where the issues reside.


Sounds like you were played by Comcast. Perhaps you had only the single stream cablecards in the Series 3, whereas in the Premiere or Roamio you need the Multistream "M-Card". I had M-Cards in my series 3, and was able to recycle it by putting into my Premiere a few years ago...and then call Comcast 5 or 6 times to find someone who knew how to unpair and then re-pair the card into the new device (most of them said I needed a truck roll to set it up, which was obviously wrong). I repeated the process a few months back with my Roamio and it went flawless in 5 minutes because I called the cable card support desk directly.

For what it's worth, I have Motorola cable cards through Comcast but it appears you are stuck with Cisco cards...and I think I read about problems others have had with problematic cisco cable cards. If you go to a local Comcast office, maybe they can sift through and see if they can get you a Motorola cable card and see if that improves things, because it really seems your problems are not with the TiVo device itself.


----------



## fletchoman

dbattaglia001 said:


> Sounds like you were played by Comcast.
> 
> If you go to a local Comcast office, maybe they can sift through and see if they can get you a Motorola cable card and see if that improves things, because it really seems your problems are not with the TiVo device itself.


Sorry, but I didn't buy my Roamio from Comcast, I bought it from TiVo so that is who I hold accountable when it doesn't work.

You sound like the TiVo support person that I talked to... They also recommended Motorola cards, as I said my area only uses Cisco. And my previous version of TiVo used the same Cisco card without any trouble. TiVo needs to take responsibility for the problem because It really doesn't matter who/what is the source of the issue, Tivo will get the blame.


----------



## NJ Webel

fletchoman said:


> Sorry, but I didn't buy my Roamio from Comcast, I bought it from TiVo so that is who I hold accountable when it doesn't work.
> 
> You sound like the TiVo support person that I talked to... They also recommended Motorola cards, as I said my area only uses Cisco. And my previous version of TiVo used the same Cisco card without any trouble. TiVo needs to take responsibility for the problem because It really doesn't matter who/what is the source of the issue, Tivo will get the blame.


If you put bad gasoline in your car and the engine fouls, do you blame the car?


----------



## fletchoman

NJ Webel said:


> If you put bad gasoline in your car and the engine fouls, do you blame the car?


Where are all these utterly nonsensical Tivo defenders coming from? You all seem to be making the same argument...don't blame TiVo.

A better example would be I bought a car and after purchasing it I find that I can only put gas in it from the north east if you want to run reliably. Do you blame the gas station or the manufacturer of the car... A relevant detail known prior to the purchase might influence that decision.


----------



## aristoBrat

fletchoman said:


> Where are all these utterly nonsensical Tivo defenders coming from? You all seem to be making the same argument...don't blame TiVo.
> 
> A better example would be I bought a car and after purchasing it I find that I can only put gas in it from the north east if you want to run reliably. Do you blame the gas station or the manufacturer of the car... A relevant detail known prior to the purchase might influence that decision.


I think that TiVo could have programmed the Roamio to immediately have told you that the cable card you ran for years in your old 2-tuner S3 was running a firmware version incapable of reliably handing 6 tuners.

I also think that TiVo could have programmed the Roamio to tell you that the Roamio was finding the SNR to be too hot, even though your old 2-tuner S3 had no problems with it. I had this situation happen to me.

All TiVo could have done was tell you that the equipment issued by your local cable company doesn't meet the requirements. They can't magically make the Roamio record 6 shows simultaneously if the cable card (whose job it is to decrypt the 6 shows and pass the video over to the TiVo) you have is incapable of doing its part.

But your posts read like you expect TiVo to come up with some magical solution to make 6 tuners work even in the situation where the cable-company issued cable card and tuning adapters are incapable of handling 6 tuners. That's not going to happen.

So to me, at this point, the responsibility is on you to deal with TiVo to refund your money and take the Roamio back. Because no TiVo-issued update is going to magically fix a problem where the root cause is your local cable company not being able to provide equipment capable of passing off 6 tuners to whatever device it may be plugged into, be it a TiVo Roamio, or one of the multi-tuner PC-based recording boxes.


----------



## tomhorsley

aristoBrat said:


> They can't magically make the Roamio record 6 shows simultaneously if the cable card (whose job it is to decrypt the 6 shows and pass the video over to the TiVo) you have is incapable of doing its part.


But the cable card is capable of working much better. I did an awful lot of experimenting with my Premier after the TiVo 20.3 update rendered it a pile of junk. It had been working reasonably well before 20.3. One thing I found was that I could go into the cable card test screens and bring up a flawless picture on channels the TiVo was giving errors on in the normal TV mode, and 99% of the time, after I did that, I could watch that channel with no problem. Clearly, re-trying the connection, probably with human rather than computer timing, got things working.

TiVo's reaction was just to point at cable industry standards docs and whine that it wasn't their fault. If TiVo actually cared about their users, a much better reaction would have been to realize that the only actual standard is what the hardware really does, and teach the TiVo to slow down and treat the cable card with kid gloves when it constantly gets errors from the card that is actually in the TiVo. It is certainly possible, because the pre-20.3 software was 1000 times more reliable than the post-20.3 software with the same cable card.


----------



## Finalrinse

I've had 6 TiVo's and one Mini so far. My Roamio Pro is about a month old and so far working beautifully. I have Comcast as cable provider and they supply Motorola cards in my area. I think I'm lucky because the Motorola cards just seem to work. I've had the same two M-cards for the last 5 years and just transfer them and re-activate when I buy the latest TiVo. I did see that my Roamio was running hot with the signal strength and S/N. It took 15db of attenuators to get it within spec. Although I did not have problems when running hot I like to fool around and try to make things right. I sort of look at TiVo as a hobby. I like to upgrade the hard drives and tweek the settings. If I would have had problems through out the years that I could not fix I would have abandoned TiVo a long time ago. I agree that TiVo is not plug and play. I read these forums daily and they provide a wealth of information. I feel sorry for people that have problems that they can't get rectified, and feel lucky I don't have them. I've sold all but three TiVo's, and they all have brought unbelievable money on eBay with lifetime service. I'm currently using a Roamio Pro, Premiere XL4, and Mini with MoCa. So, I love my Roamio and sorry yours is not so good. I hope you can get it worked out or get a refund and move on.
P.S. I'm using 20.4.1 on my TiVo boxes


----------



## aristoBrat

tomhorsley said:


> But the cable card is capable of working much better. I did an awful lot of experimenting with my Premier after the TiVo 20.3 update rendered it a pile of junk. It had been working reasonably well before 20.3.


I get what you're saying, but honestly, something that _at it's best_ just worked "reasonably well" isn't going to cut it with some folks here.


----------



## tatergator1

fletchoman said:


> Where are all these utterly nonsensical Tivo defenders coming from? You all seem to be making the same argument...don't blame TiVo.
> 
> A better example would be I bought a car and after purchasing it I find that I can only put gas in it from the north east if you want to run reliably. Do you blame the gas station or the manufacturer of the car... A relevant detail known prior to the purchase might influence that decision.


And prior to spending tens of thousands of dollars on such a car, I would have done research, reviewing manufacturer literature, but especially user reviews to learn of the pros /cons of said car, at which time I would have found out about the requirement of northeastern gas and factored that into my decision.


----------



## dbattaglia001

fletchoman said:


> Where are all these utterly nonsensical Tivo defenders coming from? You all seem to be making the same argument...don't blame TiVo.
> 
> A better example would be I bought a car and after purchasing it I find that I can only put gas in it from the north east if you want to run reliably. Do you blame the gas station or the manufacturer of the car... A relevant detail known prior to the purchase might influence that decision.


Please do us all a favor and get a cable company DVD. I have never seen such a cable company homer who thinks they are infallible and without fault. Maybe if you spent half the effort you do on ripping tivo with trying to get comcast to support your equipment then you'd have less to complain about.

Potential tivo customers, fletchoman is the ridiculous critical review that gives 1 star when there are 1000 five stars. Take what he says with a grain of salt when researching your purchase decision. There are countless happy satisfied customers.


----------



## moonscape

fletchoman said:


> A better example would be I bought a car and after purchasing it I find that I can only put gas in it from the north east if you want to run reliably.


Or buying a diesel and blaming the auto manufacturer that your local station doesn't carry it.


----------



## fletchoman

dbattaglia001 said:


> Potential tivo customers, fletchoman is the ridiculous critical review that gives 1 star when there are 1000 five stars. Take what he says with a grain of salt when researching your purchase decision. There are countless happy satisfied customers.


WOW...the Tivo fan-boys are coming out of the woodwork...but once again I will let reality speak volumes. Today's Roamio failure was just to record a single program...no overlap...not 6 channels at a time...just one.

EPIC FAIL

Note that Tivo has managed to select the only tuner that is in the failed state to record the programming. Is this a cable card failure? Never saw this even once with my series3 using the same cable card. So this must be a Comcast failure, right???


----------



## jrtroo

Are you looking to complain, or troubleshoot? 

If troubleshoot, then why don't you provide the cc information noted in earlier posts.


----------



## pmiranda

fletchoman said:


> Note that Tivo has managed to select the only tuner that is in the failed state to record the programming. Is this a cable card failure? Never saw this even once with my series3 using the same cable card. So this must be a Comcast failure, right???


I thought you said you got a different cablecard for your Roamio? Do you still have the one from your S3? Have you been able to talk to anybody at Comcast who knows how to tell if your new M card has the latest firmware? To help you diagnose any of this?


----------



## aristoBrat

Is your cable card firmware still on the version that is known to cause problems?



fletchoman said:


> I'm using the Cisco cable card...1.5.2_F.p.3001





TiVoMargret said:


> Here's what we've learned:
> 
> Cisco 1.5.2.3001 - *problem*


----------



## fletchoman

pmiranda said:


> I thought you said you got a different cablecard for your Roamio? Do you still have the one from your S3? Have you been able to talk to anybody at Comcast who knows how to tell if your new M card has the latest firmware? To help you diagnose any of this?


I tried a newer cable card from Comcast but I don't get a choice of which firmware to run...this card was originally in my series3 that provided years of trouble free recording.


----------



## tatergator1

fletchoman said:


> WOW...the Tivo fan-boys are coming out of the woodwork...but once again I will let reality speak volumes. Today's Roamio failure was just to record a single program...no overlap...not 6 channels at a time...just one.
> 
> EPIC FAIL
> 
> Note that Tivo has managed to select the only tuner that is in the failed state to record the programming. Is this a cable card failure? Never saw this even once with my series3 using the same cable card. So this must be a Comcast failure, right???


So, I just skimmed your post history and other than a reference several months ago, I don't see any mention of you attempting to contact Comcast regarding receiving updated firmware for your card. There's an entire thread on your problem, it's comprised of mostly Comcast subscribers, and anyone who stuck it out battling Comcast to update their firmware has eliminated all the failed recordings.

This is almost entirely Comcast's fault. There are major flaws in the firmware that result in random, but frequent failures of the CableCard to decrypt the requested channel.


----------



## fletchoman

aristoBrat said:


> Is your cable card firmware still on the version that is known to cause problems?


Yes, this cable card ran for many trouble-free years in my series3. Now Tivo blames the cable card or Comcast for the issues...And I still submit that Tivo has my money and they are responsible for fixing or working-around these issues. I don't even see where they have even admitted that there IS an issue, and if so, what are they? What is the plan to get them understood so that they can get fixed? Why are so many people denying that there are problems?


----------



## pmiranda

fletchoman said:


> Yes, this cable card ran for many trouble-free years in my series3. Now Tivo blames the cable card or Comcast for the issues...And I still submit that Tivo has my money and they are responsible for fixing or working-around these issues. I don't even see where they have even admitted that there IS an issue, and if so, what are they? What is the plan to get them understood so that they can get fixed? Why are so many people denying that there are problems?


You realize that you're asking the CC to do something it's never done before?

Here's a particularly useful post from the thread tatergator noted:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10054346#post10054346


----------



## fletchoman

tatergator1 said:


> So, I just skimmed your post history and other than a reference several months ago, I don't see any mention of you attempting to contact Comcast regarding receiving updated firmware for your card. There's an entire thread on your problem, it's comprised of mostly Comcast subscribers, and anyone who stuck it out battling Comcast to update their firmware has eliminated all the failed recordings.
> 
> This is almost entirely Comcast's fault. There are major flaws in the firmware that result in random, but frequent failures of the CableCard to decrypt the requested channel.


I am sorry to disagree, but the "not authorized" failure is just one more on top of the others that I noted. I have also seen this one from time to time. I also went down the path of disabling 2-tuners based on the thread you referenced. Nothing I have done has made any difference in the Roamio failures that I see. Note: the same cable card gave me years of trouble free service in my series3, but now the buggy firmware causes all of my failures...but only in my Roamio...and this is a Comcast problem...please.


----------



## tatergator1

fletchoman said:


> I don't even see where they have even admitted that there IS an issue, and if so, what are they?


There's this: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9792259#post9792259

And this: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9811023#post9811023

And directly from Tivo's website:


> I have a Roamio Plus or Roamio Pro, but not all of my tuners are working
> 
> There are two types of problems that will cause your Roamio Plus or Pro to lose tuner functionality-outdated firmware and copy-protected content.
> Outdated firmware
> 
> CableCARDs must meet minimum firmware requirements to support the 6-tuner functionality of Roamio Plus and Pro. If your CableCARD firmware is outdated, your Roamio Plus or Pro will only have four tuners available for use. However, the DVR will continue to schedule recordings as if all six tuners were working, which will result in missing or blank recordings from the two non-functional tuners.
> 
> NOTE: If you choose to, you can manually disable tuners to avoid blank recordings. Just follow the instructions in the next section.
> 
> The following CableCARD firmware versions are capable of handling six tuners:
> 
> Motorola CableCARDs-version 2.65 or later
> Cisco/Scientific Atlanta CableCARDs-OS Ver: PKEY1.5.2.2801 or later
> 
> Motorola CableCARDs ship from Motorola with version 2.65, and should work immediately.
> 
> To check your Cisco/Scientific Atlanta CableCARD's firmware version:
> 
> From TiVo Central > Settings & Messages > Account & System Info > CableCARD Decoder > CableCARD options (for installers) > CableCARD Menu > SA CableCARD Diag Screen
> 
> Currently we have no data on compatible NDS or Conax CableCARD firmware. Nagravision CableCARDs can support four tuners only.
> 
> If you have a good connection between your DVR and the cable headend, your CableCARD should update automatically.
> Tuning Adapters
> 
> If you have trouble getting your channels through a tuning adapter connected to a Roamio Series DVR, check the adapter's firmware version:
> 
> From TiVo Central > Settings & Messages > Account & System Info > Tuning Adapter
> 
> If you hava a Motorola tuning adapter, it requires firmware version xxx.36 or later (where xxx might be MTR_PLATO1 or a similar string of characters). The important thing is that the digits at the end of the string are 36 or greater.
> 
> If you have a Cisco/Scientific Atlanta tuning adapter, it requires firmware version xxx.1402 or later (where xxx might be STA1.0.0_1520_BDSG.LR_F or a similar string of characters). The important thing is that the digits at the end of the string are 1402 or greater.
> Copy-protected content
> 
> The other reason you might not be able to use all 6 tuners is a software bug that impacts copy-protected material. When you view or record a copy-protected program, your CableCARD might go into a state where it can only support 5 tuners. You will be able to use all 6 tuners when you finish watching or recording the copy-protected content.


----------



## aaronwt

fletchoman said:


> I am sorry to disagree, but the "not authorized" failure is just one more on top of the others that I noted. I have also seen this one from time to time. I also went down the path of disabling 2-tuners based on the thread you referenced. Nothing I have done has made any difference in the Roamio failures that I see. Note: the same cable card gave me years of trouble free service in my series3, but now the buggy firmware causes all of my failures...but only in my Roamio...and this is a Comcast problem...please.


years of trouble free service in a two tuner DVR. The Romaio is a four or six tuner DVR. That is not the same. Just because a cable card works in a two tuner DVR does not neccessarily mean it will work in a six tuner one. I know when I first got my Roamio on FiOS, I had a cable card that I had used for years, but it had an old fimrware or something. I swapped it out for a newer cable card and everything has worked great since then.


----------



## fletchoman

tatergator1 said:


> There's this: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9792259#post9792259
> 
> And this: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9811023#post9811023
> 
> And directly from Tivo's website:


Thanks for this link, I will try what was recommended...

So this is also mostly old news...dated back to Aug2013. I already have proven to Tivo that a single tuner has gotten into a bad state and any change that I do (channel test, or a change) will in fact bring up the programming.

So Tivo knew about these issues in August last year, what have they done to resolve them in the last 8 months?


----------



## fletchoman

aaronwt said:


> years of trouble free service in a two tuner DVR. The Romaio is a four or six tuner DVR.


I simply point out that I only had 1 scheduled recording...not 6, or even 4. Reliability is the most important feature of a DVR, and I can't rely on a Roamio to record one at a time successfully.


----------



## aristoBrat

fletchoman said:


> I don't even see where they have even admitted that there IS an issue


Here's a post from a VP of TiVo, that clearly states that the version of firmware that your cable card is running has problems.



TiVoMargret said:


> Here's what we've learned:
> 
> Cisco 1.5.2.3001 - problem
> Cisco 1.5.3.0601 - inconclusive
> Cisco 1.5.3.1101  good
> 
> We will be encouraging cable companies to update to the Cisco 1.5.3.1101 firmware.


----------



## bareyb

dbattaglia001 said:


> Potential tivo customers, fletchoman is the ridiculous critical review that gives 1 star when there are 1000 five stars. Take what he says with a grain of salt when researching your purchase decision. There are countless happy satisfied customers.


I don't know fletchoman but I do know Doug very well and he's not typically "that guy". His opinion does carry some weight with me. I'd feel a lot better if we got an update from the OP that things are working better now.


----------



## fletchoman

bareyb said:


> I don't know fletchoman but I do know Doug very well and he's not typically "that guy". His opinion does carry some weight with me. I'd feel a lot better if we got an update from the OP that things are working better now.


Please send him my apology for hijacking his thread..


----------



## pmiranda

Even though I'm very happy with my TiVo I wouldn't completely discount fletchoman's experience. If you don't have the time or patience to be stuck in between TiVo and your cableco, or if you are going to do something like set up a TiVo for a non-tech-savvy person like a stereotypical grandmother, I would definitely take note of the fact that you might have a headache.
There are technical measures TiVo could take to make it easier to diagnose issues like this, and there are possibly nontechnical customer service measures they could take, such as having hotlines to the major cableco's so they can act as a single point of service even when it's not technically their problem. That could be made even more painless for the customer if they used backdoor access to your TiVo to remotely diagnose the problems and work directly with your cableco to address it. Then one call to TiVo solves the issue in exactly they way cableco's build in backdoor access to diagnose and correct issue with their customer-located equipment.
I bet some folks would be willing to pay a "premium set up fee" to get that.


----------



## atmuscarella

Many of us have posted that we no longer recommend TiVos to our friends/family because of the possibility of significant issues related to cable cards and tuning adapters and/or because of the amount of support that our friends/family would expect from us. 

I love my Roamio and think it works great, but I don't recommend other people buy one unless I know they are OTA only. And I fully expect stand alone TiVos to remain a niche product until/unless cable cards/tuning adapters are replaced with a reliable software solution. 

So while I don't think there is allot that TiVo can do for fletchoman beyond refunding his money, I do expect a certain percentage of people to have issues similar to his. The reality is that it is reasonable for people to want a reliable, simple to use, plug & play device. However it is unreasonable to to expect that TiVo can always deliver that when cable cards/tuning adapters are involved.


----------



## Azlen

There's a reason why you don't see too many consumer products that rely on cable cards and tuning adapters. There are too many variables, too many providers, too many points of failures and the company providing the device is going to be the one to get the lion's share of the blame. There's no pressure on the cable companies to change because the number of people effected by it are small and they are all blaming someone else. I'm just thankful that the cable cards and tuning adapters in my area work well because my Roamio and two minis are doing just fine.


----------



## pmiranda

Azlen said:


> There's a reason why you don't see too many consumer products that rely on cable cards and tuning adapters. There are too many variables, too many providers, too many points of failures and the company providing the device is going to be the one to get the lion's share of the blame. There's no pressure on the cable companies to change because the number of people effected by it are small and they are all blaming someone else. I'm just thankful that the cable cards and tuning adapters in my area work well because my Roamio and two minis are doing just fine.


I'll blame the unidirectional device compromise for putting us here. Cablecards are perfectly capable of using a reverse data channel to allow the cableco to diagnose most issues, but the manufacturers and providers couldn't get their act together to enable it. The only reason cableco boxes appear to be easy to use is that they have a reverse data channel to allow interactive debugging and status reporting to the head end. In my experience they are at least as buggy as TiVos are.

Anyway... I hope fletchoman can get through to comcast to get a firmware update and report wonderful things. :up:


----------



## fletchoman

pmiranda said:


> Anyway... I hope fletchoman can get through to comcast to get a firmware update and report wonderful things. :up:


Thanks. I did send an E-mail to Comcast asking for firmware update compatible with Roamio...They have already replied asking for details about my account. Hopefully, they can get these issues resolved.


----------



## DigitalDawn

I think you'll be very happy once you get the Comcast update to 1.5.3 1101.


----------



## fletchoman

DigitalDawn said:


> I think you'll be very happy once you get the Comcast update to 1.5.3 1101.


Unfortunately, it seems that Comcast doesn't really care. They responded to my initial email, but since I added my details I have heard nothing. I sent a follow-up email on Thursday and I have still not heard anything.

What are my choices now?


----------



## pmiranda

Keep calling comcast tech support until you get to somebody that knows what a cablecard firmware update is.


----------



## tomhorsley

Or send in an complaint to the FCC. For some reason that really gets their attention. Supposedly Comcast itself needs their own cable cards up to latest rev for their X1 boxes, they kept postponing the rollout of X1 in my area and refused to update any individual cards till the whole infrastructure rollout happened. I finally did an FCC complaint, and the next day my card got new firmware and the day after that someone from Comcast was calling to make sure my FCC complaint was resolved.


----------



## cherry ghost

If you're on Twitter, try @comcastcares


----------



## pshivers

tomhorsley said:


> Or send in an complaint to the FCC. For some reason that really gets their attention. Supposedly Comcast itself needs their own cable cards up to latest rev for their X1 boxes, they kept postponing the rollout of X1 in my area and refused to update any individual cards till the whole infrastructure rollout happened. I finally did an FCC complaint, and the next day my card got new firmware and the day after that someone from Comcast was calling to make sure my FCC complaint was resolved.


That is exactly how I finally got Charter to update the Firmware on my CableCard! I filed an FCC complaint against them and within a week my Firmware had been updated to the required 153.1101 for the Roamio Pro 6-tuner to work properly.

Before that Charter claimed that updating to firmware was not possible...

*File an FCC complaint, The cable company is required to respond and resolve the problem.*


----------



## tim1724

pshivers said:


> That is exactly how I finally got Charter to update the Firmware on my CableCard! I filed an FCC complaint against them and within a week my Firmware had been updated to the required 153.1101 for the Roamio Pro 6-tuner to work properly.
> 
> Before that Charter claimed that updating to firmware was not possible...


If it was your complaint that got Charter Alhambra to send out the updates, then *THANKS*!  I was always too lazy to make a complaint.


----------



## Cap'n Preshoot

bobfrank said:


> You should really really believe that I have *never *had a problem with any Tivo that made me want to get rid of it. I've had a S1, S2, S3, THD, (skipped the Premiere) and now a Roamio and 2 Minis.
> 
> There have occasionally been small glitches, but never anything major.
> 
> Sorry you don't believe all the posters here that report no major problems. We believe you've had trouble, but that would seem to be limited something specific to your Tivo.


I've got to chime-in with *bobfrank* here. Sure, there have been some glitches, but certainly none that make me want to get rid of it.

Sometimes product engineers unwittingly dismiss obscure glitches being reported by only a small segment of beta testers as anecdotal, not realizing that those beta testers may have actually stumbled onto a valid bug that the rest of the beta team either isn't testing for, or may be technically unqualified to test for or identify (or the beta team itself is too small to accurately represent a sufficient QA sampling of product.

Whatever the issue, with the O/S and application code today residing solely within flash ram, it's fixable.

Also, huge kudos to the design team for making the drive swap/upgrade process novice-simple


----------



## gamo62

I was able to get CinBell to give me an updated CC when I was unable to access all 6 tuners. Have been golden since then.


----------



## fletchoman

I sent email to Comcast cares and was ignored as soon as they got my details.

I filed a complaint with the FCC back in April. More than a month later, today I finally got my firmware update. I got the firmware that TiVo claims to work (1101), so I will give it a few weeks and report back any problems.


----------



## fletchoman

Wow...it only took 24hrs for the first failure...wonder what all the Tivo fan boys will say now?


----------



## DigitalDawn

Just curious, did you reboot the TiVo after the firmware update? If not, please do.


----------



## aristoBrat

IIRC, "No Longer In Guide" is a known bug. Thought it was fixed in the Spring update.


----------



## Rjanssen2001

I found that replacing my cable card fixed the errors that my roamio was experiencing.


----------



## fletchoman

I lost two tuners today...Looks like nothing is fixed with the new firmware.


----------



## fletchoman

It has been ~2 weeks since I got the 1101 firmware. I have not had any instances of "no signal" since upgrading the firmware so it is clearly better. However, I continue to see "no longer in guide" failures (see attached).


----------



## Azlen

fletchoman said:


> It has been ~2 weeks since I got the 1101 firmware. I have not had any instances of "no signal" since upgrading the firmware so it is clearly better. However, I continue to see "no longer in guide" failures (see attached).


Your Tivo is obviously more left leaning and has an issue with recording Fox News and Duck Dynasty.


----------



## eboydog

Azlen said:


> Your Tivo is obviously more left leaning and has an issue with recording Fox News and Duck Dynasty.


That's not too funny, I have noticed that on my cable provider, I get different signal levels depending on the news channel tuned. Makes one wonder if someone does take liberties with making some channels work better than others.....

Personally, I had to turn TiVo suggestions off as my TiVo started thinking I was gay which I'm not...... I threatened to format its hard drive if ever volunteered to record that queer eye for the straight guy show thing and once I set a.season pass for every Bruce Willis movie ever made, I haven't had any further issue.


----------



## fletchoman

Azlen said:


> Your Tivo is obviously more left leaning and has an issue with recording Fox News and Duck Dynasty.


It is obviously a left wing conspiracy...none of my MSNBC recordings have failed.


----------



## Azlen

fletchoman said:


> It is obviously a left wing conspiracy...none of my MSNBC recordings have failed.


Maybe you just need to pick it up and move it over to the right a bit.


----------



## eboydog

I'm sure its Bush's fault.....


----------



## cherry ghost

fletchoman said:


> It has been ~2 weeks since I got the 1101 firmware. I have not had any instances of "no signal" since upgrading the firmware so it is clearly better. However, I continue to see "no longer in guide" failures (see attached).


"The Kelly File" wasn't on that night, so "no longer in guide" is correct.


----------



## javabird

eboydog said:


> That's not too funny, I have noticed that on my cable provider, I get different signal levels depending on the news channel tuned. Makes one wonder if someone does take liberties with making some channels work better than others.....
> 
> Personally, I had to turn TiVo suggestions off as my TiVo started thinking I was gay which I'm not...... I threatened to format its hard drive if ever volunteered to record that queer eye for the straight guy show thing and once I set a.season pass for every Bruce Willis movie ever made, I haven't had any further issue.


Hilarious.


----------



## Series3Sub

pshivers said:


> That is exactly how I finally got Charter to update the Firmware on my CableCard! I filed an FCC complaint against them and within a week my Firmware had been updated to the required 153.1101 for the Roamio Pro 6-tuner to work properly.
> 
> Before that Charter claimed that updating to firmware was not possible...
> 
> *File an FCC complaint, The cable company is required to respond and resolve the problem.*


Further proof the MSO's are creating the problems for TiVo's.


----------



## dswallow

Thanks to ComcastTeds via the thread at http://forums.comcast.com/t5/XfinityTV-and-Equipment/Cisco-Firmware-1-5-3-1101/td-p/1967519 I just got all my CableCARDs upgraded to PKEY1.5.3_F.p.1101.

Fingers crossed this is the end of the problems.


----------



## dswallow

And naturally because I thought it'd be good to reboot, too, it's now preparing an update -- I guess the summer update -- since I signed up on the priority list. Happening on the Roamio Pro and the XL4 and a Premiere. I guess I hope there was nothing I was trying to record at 8pm today. 

ETA: The Roamio Pro finished, so I guess that was a reasonably quick update.

ETA2: That's nice -- being able to start playing Xfinity on-demand shows directly from the guide.


----------



## andyf

It looks like Comcast is updating anyone who asks.


----------



## ajayabb

dswallow said:


> And naturally because I thought it'd be good to reboot, too, it's now preparing an update -- I guess the summer update -- since I signed up on the priority list. Happening on the Roamio Pro and the XL4 and a Premiere. I guess I hope there was nothing I was trying to record at 8pm today.
> 
> ETA: The Roamio Pro finished, so I guess that was a reasonably quick update.
> 
> ETA2: That's nice -- being able to start playing Xfinity on-demand shows directly from the guide.


Good luck Dan, you posted right before I did on Xfinity. Firmware just got updated as well. Fingers crossed !


----------



## Adam1115

I got a Romaio and a TiVo Mini. They have worked flawlessly, I'm impressed with how well the mini works and how quick they both are. But as a previous TiVo user, I'm confused about a few things...

1) Why do I get the old SD crap menus in some screens like settings? It looks so disjointed?
2) Ok the preview windows thing is REALLY messing me up. If I go to bed, what do I hit to stop the show? If I already hit the TiVo button I have to then go to livetv or something so that it resumes from where I left it.
3) If I go to the menu, the show is still playing in the preview window. How do I get back to it? As near as I can tell, I have to go back to my show list and resume it from there - which is silly since it is already playing.
4) The only supported esata device in 2014 is the same WD DVR expander that came out YEARS ago? Really?
5) No Amazon prime streaming STILL???
6) The parental controls SUCK! They used to have kidzone which was awesome. Now half the time I get 2/3 through a show and it freaks out and asks me for the passcode. Then it starts the show completely over. It often allows TV shows to play that are above the specified rating.
7) The power supply is crap, wouldn't power up a seagate 7200 RPM hard drive.
8) The activation process on the mini is wonky and not intuitive.
9) What happened to giving people a few days of service before requiring activation and payment? I was seriously irritated that I couldn't get the box up and running 100% before having to activate service - committing to a YEAR.
10) It doesn't appear possible to pause a show on the Romaio and resume where I left off on the mini.

Otherwise it's a pretty great box... no lockups or anything like that.


----------



## jrtroo

Slow eliminates the window, zoom expands it full screen. SD menus are rarely used, so most don't care too much except for the window that disappears. No need for an expander, just plunk in a new bigger drive.


----------



## dbattaglia001

jrtroo said:


> Pause eliminates the window, zoom expands it full screen. SD menus are rarely used, so most don't care too much except for the window that disappears. No need for an expander, just plunk in a new bigger drive.


I think you meant to say Slow Motion button toggles window on and off.


----------



## Adam1115

Pause seems to do nothing outside of full screen TV. Zoom, I thought that was for aspect ratio changes but I'll try that! Thanks! I know the SD menus are rarely used, but it's been how many years since the HD interface came out?

I did plunk in a bigger drive, the tiny power supply wouldn't spin it up, so I put the stock drive in and plugged in a dvr expander.


----------



## jrtroo

Never seen that here, did you put in a drive greater than 3TB? That is as large as DIY goes.


----------



## Bigg

Adam1115 said:


> I got a Romaio and a TiVo Mini. They have worked flawlessly, I'm impressed with how well the mini works and how quick they both are. But as a previous TiVo user, I'm confused about a few things...
> 
> 1) Why do I get the old SD crap menus in some screens like settings? It looks so disjointed?
> 2) Ok the preview windows thing is REALLY messing me up. If I go to bed, what do I hit to stop the show? If I already hit the TiVo button I have to then go to livetv or something so that it resumes from where I left it.
> 3) If I go to the menu, the show is still playing in the preview window. How do I get back to it? As near as I can tell, I have to go back to my show list and resume it from there - which is silly since it is already playing.
> 4) The only supported esata device in 2014 is the same WD DVR expander that came out YEARS ago? Really?
> 5) No Amazon prime streaming STILL???
> 6) The parental controls SUCK! They used to have kidzone which was awesome. Now half the time I get 2/3 through a show and it freaks out and asks me for the passcode. Then it starts the show completely over. It often allows TV shows to play that are above the specified rating.
> 7) The power supply is crap, wouldn't power up a seagate 7200 RPM hard drive.
> 8) The activation process on the mini is wonky and not intuitive.
> 9) What happened to giving people a few days of service before requiring activation and payment? I was seriously irritated that I couldn't get the box up and running 100% before having to activate service - committing to a YEAR.
> 10) It doesn't appear possible to pause a show on the Romaio and resume where I left off on the mini.
> 
> Otherwise it's a pretty great box... no lockups or anything like that.


1. Yup. It is disjointed. Luckily, all the menus people use on a regular basis are HD. Not an excuse, but it's not that bad of a problem.
2. On the Roamio/Premiere in a system, you just go to Live TV. On a Mini, you go to TiVo Central. A bit weird to have two different operating paradigms, but not that hard...
3. The Zoom button.
4. Considering they come with up to 3TB internal (or the Weakness modded 4TB) I don't think this is an issue...
5. Other boxes do it better anyways.
6. No clue. No kids in my household.
7. That's kind of bad, although the base Roamio isn't meant for people who want a ton of storage... those folks would be a lot better served by a plus/pro.
8. I didn't have any issues with that...
9. A year? Lifetime is the way to go, and then, well, the box has it for the life of the box. So there's no issues there. No commitment, since it goes with the box if you sell it later...
10. It's not that hard. Pause it, and then go into the NPL and resume it.


----------



## Adam1115

jrtroo said:


> Never seen that here, did you put in a drive greater than 3TB? That is as large as DIY goes.


Nope, 2 TB Seagate. It'd start to spin up and the whole box would reboot.



Bigg said:


> 4. Considering they come with up to 3TB internal (or the Weakness modded 4TB) I don't think this is an issue...


Uh ok, mine came with a 500 Gig drive.



jrtroo said:


> 5. Other boxes do it better anyways.


:sigh:

Yea tell non technical people to switch over to another box when they want to watch a show on prime.



jrtroo said:


> 7. That's kind of bad, although the base Roamio isn't meant for people who want a ton of storage... those folks would be a lot better served by a plus/pro.


Assuming they want to give up OTA.



jrtroo said:


> 9. A year? Lifetime is the way to go, and then, well, the box has it for the life of the box. So there's no issues there. No commitment, since it goes with the box if you sell it later...


For $499 I would have to have this box for about 3 years to break even, and I assume they'll have something new out by then...

But you missed my point. You shouldn't have to shell out $499 or $14.99 a month the second you plug it in. Older boxes gave you a grace period to use it, make sure it works, etc. before it stopped allowing you access to the guide.



jrtroo said:


> 10. It's not that hard. Pause it, and then go into the NPL and resume it.


Doesn't work. If I pause it downstairs, go up to the tivo mini it starts at the beginning.


----------



## FitzAusTex

Adam1115, you can cancel service on a new tivo within 30 days. Yeah you have to pay upfront and wait for a refund, but at least you can get out of the commitment if you return the tivo


----------



## CrispyCritter

Adam1115 said:


> For $499 I would have to have this box for about 3 years to break even, and I assume they'll have something new out by then...


Not really, because your box will still be worth a couple of hundred dollars after 3 years - 5 year old TiVo Premiere lifetime units (only two tuners) are still going for more than $200 on Ebay (4 tuner Premieres are more than $300). Lifetime is valuable.


----------



## Adam1115

Assuming that it doesn't fail out of warranty. Having $700 tied up in a DVR is not something I'm interested in... Nothing against those who do it. It would make me not want to upgrade when a new one comes out where is now I'll probably buy a different box in a few years.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

The missing grace period on a new box is a bug. I believe it requires waiting and then making a few connections to kick in.

Source: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9809096#post9809096


----------



## aristoBrat

Adam1115 said:


> Yea tell non technical people to switch over to another box when they want to watch a show on prime.


Isn't that how non-technical people currently do it?

AFAIK, cable is the predominate way that people get their TV, and I don't think any cable boxes offer Prime, NetFlix or Hulu?

Non-technical people figured out how to switch to their DVD/Bluray players, I don't think another box is going to stump them. 

I don't disagree with your main point, though. I'd prefer not having to use a separate box for Amazon.


----------



## Adam1115

aristoBrat said:


> Isn't that how non-technical people currently do it?
> 
> AFAIK, cable is the predominate way that people get their TV, and I don't think any cable boxes offer Prime, NetFlix or Hulu?
> 
> Non-technical people figured out how to switch to their DVD/Bluray players, I don't think another box is going to stump them.
> 
> I don't disagree with your main point, though. I'd prefer not having to use a separate box for Amazon.


No, because it is confusing. TiVo SUPPORTS amazon, just not prime streaming, so the non-technical people are confused as to what we are getting charged for and what is free. Then, to switch, they have to boot up the blu-ray player, which takes a good 30-45 second, switch the receiver, re-search for the show, etc., etc.

Yes it stumps them. My wife ends up paying $1.99 for shows we get for free, the kids are just not allowed to do it at all. It would be far less confusing if TiVo just didn't have amazon, but it's half assed implementation is confusing.

Add to that, I'm pay $6/mo for a TiVo Mini in the bedroom. Getting amazon up there means going out and buying another box.


----------



## Bigg

Adam1115 said:


> Uh ok, mine came with a 500 Gig drive.


Note the words "up to".



> :sigh:
> 
> Yea tell non technical people to switch over to another box when they want to watch a show on prime.


It's not rocket science to push a button and switch inputs.



> Assuming they want to give up OTA.


When you get 5 channels, and 4 of them kind of suck most of the time, you're not likely to need a lot of storage. When you get 50-100 HD channels, you're more likely to need a LOT more storage.



> For $499 I would have to have this box for about 3 years to break even, and I assume they'll have something new out by then...
> 
> But you missed my point. You shouldn't have to shell out $499 or $14.99 a month the second you plug it in. Older boxes gave you a grace period to use it, make sure it works, etc. before it stopped allowing you access to the guide.


With Lifetime, you get higher resale value. We had a Series 2 80GB for like 6 years. Lifetime paid for itself one and a half times over. I figure I can downcycle my XL4 to another room or for someone else if I want to get a Roamio.



> Doesn't work. If I pause it downstairs, go up to the tivo mini it starts at the beginning.


It should give you the option to "resume". It does for me on an XL4 with three Minis, regardless of which of the four boxes I do it on.


----------



## aaronwt

Adam1115 said:


> Assuming that it doesn't fail out of warranty. Having $700 tied up in a DVR is not something I'm interested in... Nothing against those who do it. It would make me not want to upgrade when a new one comes out where is now I'll probably buy a different box in a few years.


Hmm.. that is just the opposite for me with lifetime. WIthout lifetime I would not upgrade as often since with the current rates they are very high. With lifetime I have typically upgraded as soon as a new model is released. Then I sell the old models to cover most of the cost of the new lifetime TiVos. Since a TiVo without lifetime isn't worth much, I would be less likely to upgrade it and there is more out of pocket costs with the current rates then with lifetime service.

Although I do have my Roamio Basic on monthly service, but it is only $6.95 a month. So I don't mind paying that each month since the break even, with the MSD lifetime cost, is almost five years.


----------



## Adam1115

It's an opinion not an argument.


----------



## bbock727

I'm very Suprised at these threads considering I've never had a problem with my TiVo roamio and my mini. Dswallow if I recall correctly you live near me in New Jersey and have comcast? I've since moved and I have cable vision now. Not sure if Comcast is an issue, but I've not had one cablecard/tuner issue since I have mine and with minis I use all 6 tuners at times. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dswallow

bbock727 said:


> I'm very Suprised at these threads considering I've never had a problem with my TiVo roamio and my mini. Dswallow if I recall correctly you live near me in New Jersey and have comcast? I've since moved and I have cable vision now. Not sure if Comcast is an issue, but I've not had one cablecard/tuner issue since I have mine and with minis I use all 6 tuners at times.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Much of it is CableCARD, as in Motorola vs. Cisco/Scientific Atlanta. That doesn't excuse TiVo at all from not disclosing such a huge incompatibility, if it really was something there wasn't a way to deal with from their side, even as a workaround (and if your device can display an error message, certainly there's something more that it could do than to just sit there like a dumb piece of crap and pretend to record shows using a tuner it could easily identify as non-functional).

And further considering TiVo & Comcast's relationship, it's inexcusable yet again that such a significant, widespread incompatibility wasn't acknowledged and a fix or workaround or early firmware update made available, proactively, or certainly through some reasonably widespread notification to owners.

With luck the 1.5.3F/1101 firmware upgrade is the end of it, and we don't see a later upgrade that breaks something again.

Even today you mention these tuning errors to customer support, you don't get any proper acknowledgement that the answer is a CableCARD firmware update, and the firmware update can be requested by calling/emailing/ et. al. Instead they still will waste your time with equipment swaps, rebooting, denying there's an issue.

You shouldn't have to be tech savvy to be able to find out how to get a solution to a known problem.

Don't get me wrong, though. I like the TiVo DVR's. Especially when they work.  But I think they fell down big-time with the Roamio introduction. And this seems to be a pattern the last few iterations, like an ever-growing sine-wave. Bigger highs, but lower lows, with each hardware iteration.

At least it seems I may be able to trust the DVR to actually successfully record what it's told to record again. But I shouldn't have had to spend over half a year living with such unreliability. It felt like I had a cable or DirecTV DVR. <shiver>


----------



## fletchoman

dswallow said:


> With luck the 1.5.3F/1101 firmware upgrade is the end of it, and we don't see a later upgrade that breaks something again.
> 
> <shiver>


You must be clairvoyant...this week, Comcrap updated my firmware to 1201. So after filing FCC complaint, waiting for more than a month to get updated firmware, I am now at the mercy of the update...anybody think 1201 is better than 1101?


----------



## dswallow

Well, we're back to the Roamio being a piece of crap.

I came home to a V53 error, again, even after 1.5.3F/1101 firmware is installed.

I guess it's happening a little less often, as it managed to last 9 days this time, but still too often.


----------



## fletchoman

dswallow said:


> Well, we're back to the Roamio being a piece of crap.
> 
> I came home to a V53 error, again, even after 1.5.3F/1101 firmware is installed.
> 
> I guess it's happening a little less often, as it managed to last 9 days this time, but still too often.


I still get the "channel no longer in guide" error with 1101, but it had not failed on anything I really cared about since the update (1/week avg). Prior failures were numerous and hit shows that I really wanted..."no signal" error has not recurred since moving to 1101


----------



## trip1eX

Getting mine tomorrow. I hope it isn't a pile of crap. Some of these threads scare so I'm trying not to read them.


----------



## LoadStar

trip1eX said:


> Getting mine tomorrow. I hope it isn't a pile of crap. Some of these threads scare so I'm trying not to read them.


I wouldn't worry about it. Based on my personal experience and those of most everyone else I've heard from, the Roamio is very, very good. Doug's issues are almost certainly something isolated to his TiVo or his cable system (or both).


----------



## bareyb

trip1eX said:


> Getting mine tomorrow. I hope it isn't a pile of crap. Some of these threads scare so I'm trying not to read them.


What Loadstar said. I put off buying mine for a long time based on Doug's posts here. I don't think I realized at the time that his problems were Cable Card related and had no bearing on what would happen here with Motorola Cards.

I can say the Roamio (so far) is by far the best TiVo I've ever had and I've had them all from Series 1 on. Took literally 5 minutes to activate and all six tuners and my pay channels worked perfectly from day one. They finally put in an appropriate processor and it's very responsive. If you have another Series 4 or higher box at home, the in home streaming is an amazing feature and worth the price of admission just for that IMO. :up:


----------



## thewebgal

I got my base Roamio at a Christmas present to us last year at Best Buy & Got the rebate coupon.
Immediately got the recommended 3TB drive from NewEgg & swapped it in before starting the unit. 
I pulled my old TIVOHD, and dropped the Roamio in its place. After checking performance for a month I got the Lifetime subscription deal ... and have NOT had a problem since.

Well, just one - trying to find the Blinkety Blink NBC Formula One races in HD every other week - seems NBC keeps moving the darned thing! and thats not TIVOs fault.

I will say Search on the website to find a show is painfully slow, but thats nothing new, the TIVO website has always been slow ...

FWIW, I am on FIOS with their cablecard - I threw COX Cable and that dumb switched video out of the house as quickly as I could!



dswallow said:


> I've never been so down on TiVo As I have been these last few months. The company is putting out garbage. And doing nothing to make it better.
> 
> If tonight I could go out and get an X2 system from Comcast, I probably would do it.
> 
> The TiVo service sucks. And TiVo can't get it right.
> 
> They've been sitting around blaming CableCARDs for innumerable problems and doing nothing to make anything better, whether or not that really is the problem. They know when these problems occur. They could at the very least create an option we could choose to enable to automatically reboot the TiVo when they occur, or at some reasonable schedulable time afterwords.
> 
> Tuner's just stop working.
> 
> Rebooting is almost a daily necessity just to have more than an 80% chance of everything recording.
> 
> And now I discover first-hand some things I've heard mention of before... while a C133 error happens -- ostensibly because TiVo's servers have a problem again -- you can't even make the stupid Roamio stop a recording in progress.
> 
> WHAT A PILE OF GARBAGE.
> 
> TiVo should fire every single person who designs or writes code for them because this is just totally absurd form every sort of usability standpoint any reasonable person could ever manage to come up with. TiVo should be HUGELY ASHAMED of what their products have become.
> 
> I've got a neighbor going through similar issues with an XL4. They just resorted to scheduling a 4am daily reboot with a power controller.
> 
> I am so very thankful I resisted replacing a TiVo HD with a Roamio and a couple Mini's for my parents this Christmas... but I just was so uncomfortable about the myriad of issues to add a remote headache like this, and things have only gotten worse since the holidays.
> 
> This is completely unacceptable. Anyone considering a TiVo Roamio model should wait until these reports completely stop and fixes are in place and things are stable.
> 
> MAKE IT CLEAR TO EVERYONE THAT FIXING EVERY ONE OF THESE THINGS IS A NUMBER-ONE PRIORITY.


----------



## trip1eX

Well you guys were right. I got it today and no muss no fuss, it was recording 6 channels within 30-45 minutes of being taken out of the box.

and it's snappy!

so far so good.....


----------



## trip1eX

except a concern just appeared. If you barely bump the HDMI cable at the back of the box the picture goes out. IT seems fine when left alone, but I was moving the box back onto the shelf and the pic went out and then came back on 5-10 seconds later.



Then I barely pressed down on the HDMI cable where it plugs into the port to try and recreate it and the picture goes out again. Seems to always return but ...super touchy. I can make it happen every time with very little force. I tried a 2nd hdmi cable and same result. 

Makes me think I should exchange the thing just in case it is an indicator of a future problem although I also don't want the hassle of returning it and nor paying to ship it back should they not provide me with a return shipping label.


----------



## tarheelblue32

trip1eX said:


> except a concern just appeared. If you barely bump the HDMI cable at the back of the box the picture goes out. IT seems fine when left alone, but I was moving the box back onto the shelf and the pic went out and then came back on 5-10 seconds later.
> 
> This makes me want to exchange it so avoid any potential future problem. I tried a second HDMI cable. SAme thing.
> 
> You barely press down on the HDMI cable where it plugs into the port and picture goes out. Seems to always return but ...super touchy. I can make it happen every time with very little force.


Then don't touch it.


----------



## trip1eX

tarheelblue32 said:


> Then don't touch it.


Thanks Doc!


----------



## squint

HDMI ports sometimes fail. It seemed to happen to Series 3 most often and is not a cheap or easy repair. I would exchange it.


----------



## Dan203

trip1eX said:


> except a concern just appeared. If you barely bump the HDMI cable at the back of the box the picture goes out. IT seems fine when left alone, but I was moving the box back onto the shelf and the pic went out and then came back on 5-10 seconds later.
> 
> Then I barely pressed down on the HDMI cable where it plugs into the port to try and recreate it and the picture goes out again. Seems to always return but ...super touchy. I can make it happen every time with very little force. I tried a 2nd hdmi cable and same result.
> 
> Makes me think I should exchange the thing just in case it is an indicator of a future problem although I also don't want the hassle of returning it and nor paying to ship it back should they not provide me with a return shipping label.


That does seem odd and could be an indicator of a bad port or poor soldering at the port. I'd probably exchange it just to be safe. Or buy the extended warranty just to cover your a$$ if it does decide to fail down the road.


----------



## dswallow

trip1eX said:


> except a concern just appeared. If you barely bump the HDMI cable at the back of the box the picture goes out. IT seems fine when left alone, but I was moving the box back onto the shelf and the pic went out and then came back on 5-10 seconds later.
> 
> Then I barely pressed down on the HDMI cable where it plugs into the port to try and recreate it and the picture goes out again. Seems to always return but ...super touchy. I can make it happen every time with very little force. I tried a 2nd hdmi cable and same result.
> 
> Makes me think I should exchange the thing just in case it is an indicator of a future problem although I also don't want the hassle of returning it and nor paying to ship it back should they not provide me with a return shipping label.


Sometimes HDMI ports in general are touchy, but it's usually related to cable weight... if you have a very sturdy/larger cable there could be significantly more weight getting placed on the connection. I had a similar issue with my Sony PS3 connection, and when I switched to the RedMere cables from Monoprice, the problem disappeared, since the RedMere cables are very, very thin and lightweight.

Of course it wasn't helping that I'd previously bought some excessively better constructed HDMI cables previously, which were very stiff, heavy and bulky.


----------



## dswallow

LoadStar said:


> I wouldn't worry about it. Based on my personal experience and those of most everyone else I've heard from, the Roamio is very, very good. Doug's issues are almost certainly something isolated to his TiVo or his cable system (or both).


I never claimed the problems I had were anything but the CableCARD, but I placed the blame for it squarely on TiVo for poor testing, poor support, poor communication, and lack of a workaround, details of circumstances it happens, or, well, anything at all useful or informative or that might make me believe it'd get fixed (I'm not particularly sure I can trust that even now).


----------



## trip1eX

Dan203 said:


> That does seem odd and could be an indicator of a bad port or poor soldering at the port. I'd probably exchange it just to be safe. Or buy the extended warranty just to cover your a$$ if it does decide to fail down the road.


Yeah that's my fear. It is pretty touchy. The vibe I get from these forums is that I'm the one paying to ship it back though right?


----------



## bareyb

trip1eX said:


> Yeah that's my fear. It is pretty touchy. The vibe I get from these forums is that I'm the one paying to ship it back though right?


Depends on where you bought it. Amazon, no. TiVo, yes.


----------



## trip1eX

bareyb said:


> Depends on where you bought it. Amazon, no. TiVo, yes.


Tivo.  ... maybe it isn't too touchy.


----------



## aaronwt

trip1eX said:


> except a concern just appeared. If you barely bump the HDMI cable at the back of the box the picture goes out. IT seems fine when left alone, but I was moving the box back onto the shelf and the pic went out and then came back on 5-10 seconds later.
> 
> Then I barely pressed down on the HDMI cable where it plugs into the port to try and recreate it and the picture goes out again. Seems to always return but ...super touchy. I can make it happen every time with very little force. I tried a 2nd hdmi cable and same result.
> 
> Makes me think I should exchange the thing just in case it is an indicator of a future problem although I also don't want the hassle of returning it and nor paying to ship it back should they not provide me with a return shipping label.


Try a different cable. If it still has the same issue then exchange it. That is not normal. I can grab my HDMI cable and move it all around and it has zero effect on the picture from either of my romaios.


----------



## tarheelblue32

trip1eX said:


> Tivo.  ... maybe it isn't too touchy.


Like someone else suggested, if you keep it you might consider buying an extended warranty just in case. The warranty probably won't cost much more than the return shipping anyways. And even if the worst case scenario happens and the HDMI port does go out, you could always just use the component outputs (unless you bought the basic model).


----------



## trip1eX

Good point about the extended warranty not being much more than return shipping.

Yeah I just tap the bottom of the HDMI connector upwards with a finger and picture goes out for a few seconds. Sometimes it just flickers a bit with some distortion.

If I don't touch it then ...no problem. 

Man just annoying because install went so smooth. I'm going to call up Tivo and talk with them.


----------



## trip1eX

I'm returning it. Tivo is sending out a new one tomorrow. And I have until October to return this one. They put a $350 charge on my card which I get back once they receive the old box. No return shipping charge. They are emailing out a pre-paid label.

That went smoother than I thought it would.


----------



## bareyb

Cool. :up:


----------



## trip1eX

I got my replacement box today and the picture doesn't cut out if the same HDMI cable is slightly bumped. I won't miss that feature!

Can you transfer shows easy enough? I haven't looked up how to do that yet. Not sure it will work since Tivo deactivated old box a few days ago.


----------



## nooneuknow

trip1eX said:


> I got my replacement box today and the picture doesn't cut out if the same HDMI cable is slightly bumped. I won't miss that feature!
> 
> Can you transfer shows easy enough? I haven't looked up how to do that yet. Not sure it will work since Tivo deactivated old box a few days ago.


Can't do that with a deactivated unit. Sorry.


----------



## eboydog

trip1eX said:


> I got my replacement box today and the picture doesn't cut out if the same HDMI cable is slightly bumped. I won't miss that feature!
> 
> Can you transfer shows easy enough? I haven't looked up how to do that yet. Not sure it will work since Tivo deactivated old box a few days ago.


You can call Tivo and have the old box added and have service restored on it and then after you have transferred what you need or can off it, call tivo back to cancel then ship the old back to Tivo. With the 30 day guarantee you will receive your money back for it the service activation.

Are you sure the old box is inactive? I had a Roamio swapped out under warranty and the old box was still active when the new one came in. I didn't have anything to transfer so I just sent the old one back, sometimes there is a grace period.


----------



## trip1eX

eboydog said:


> You can call Tivo and have the old box added and have service restored on it and then after you have transferred what you need or can off it, call tivo back to cancel then ship the old back to Tivo. With the 30 day guarantee you will receive your money back for it the service activation.
> 
> Are you sure the old box is inactive? I had a Roamio swapped out under warranty and the old box was still active when the new one came in. I didn't have anything to transfer so I just sent the old one back, sometimes there is a grace period.


Yep. IT says I need to activate in a bunch of spots like the Discovery Bar at the top and when choosing various options. I can't even watch Netflix on it. IT's greyed out as are season passes, wishlist, etc etc.

I might have hastened the deactivation by updating it because it seemed to get deactivated after I updated to 20.4.2 a few days after calling Tivo to get the box replaced.

IT's not a big deal. I only had it for a few days. And I can still hook it up to the tv to watch the few shows I was interested in before I box it back up and ship it to Tivo.


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## TonyBlunt

dswallow said:


> I've never been so down on TiVo As I have been these last few months. The company is putting out garbage. And doing nothing to make it better.
> 
> If tonight I could go out and get an X2 system from Comcast, I probably would do it.
> 
> The TiVo service sucks. And TiVo can't get it right.
> 
> They've been sitting around blaming CableCARDs for innumerable problems and doing nothing to make anything better, whether or not that really is the problem. They know when these problems occur. They could at the very least create an option we could choose to enable to automatically reboot the TiVo when they occur, or at some reasonable schedulable time afterwords.
> 
> Tuner's just stop working.
> 
> Rebooting is almost a daily necessity just to have more than an 80% chance of everything recording.
> 
> And now I discover first-hand some things I've heard mention of before... while a C133 error happens -- ostensibly because TiVo's servers have a problem again -- you can't even make the stupid Roamio stop a recording in progress.
> 
> WHAT A PILE OF GARBAGE.
> 
> TiVo should fire every single person who designs or writes code for them because this is just totally absurd form every sort of usability standpoint any reasonable person could ever manage to come up with. TiVo should be HUGELY ASHAMED of what their products have become.
> 
> I've got a neighbor going through similar issues with an XL4. They just resorted to scheduling a 4am daily reboot with a power controller.
> 
> I am so very thankful I resisted replacing a TiVo HD with a Roamio and a couple Mini's for my parents this Christmas... but I just was so uncomfortable about the myriad of issues to add a remote headache like this, and things have only gotten worse since the holidays.
> 
> This is completely unacceptable. Anyone considering a TiVo Roamio model should wait until these reports completely stop and fixes are in place and things are stable.
> 
> MAKE IT CLEAR TO EVERYONE THAT FIXING EVERY ONE OF THESE THINGS IS A NUMBER-ONE PRIORITY.


I have to agree. I have tried my romeo on three different cable feeds in my house, thinking it may be problems with splitters. It lasted a week on the most recent one, I was hopeful, but then half my recordings last Friday/Saturday were pixelated, black, or only half there. Cable Co DVR never has a problem, ergo I blame Tivo....


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## dswallow

TonyBlunt said:


> I have to agree. I have tried my romeo on three different cable feeds in my house, thinking it may be problems with splitters. It lasted a week on the most recent one, I was hopeful, but then half my recordings last Friday/Saturday were pixelated, black, or only half there. Cable Co DVR never has a problem, ergo I blame Tivo....


Who is your cable company, what brand CableCARD device is installed in your Roamio, and what version firmware is on the CableCARD?

TiVo should've been able to help, but maybe we actually can help here.


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## TonyBlunt

dswallow said:


> Who is your cable company, what brand CableCARD device is installed in your Roamio, and what version firmware is on the CableCARD?
> 
> TiVo should've been able to help, but maybe we actually can help here.


Orbitel, Motorola, version 6.25

Any help gratefully received....


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## Neilwltr

it must be the cable card, I have had no issues - make sure you get the multi stream cable card by Motorola...best of luck


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## dswallow

I don't know the numbering system of Motorola's firmware, but I do recall it has been mentioned in another thread. The likely culprit here is that your CableCARD has firmware that can't properly deal with 6 tuners (or 4 if you're using the base model) and at least checking the version others report would be good before trying to make your way through your local cable company to find someone knowledgeable enough to understand you're request for newer CableCARD firmware. Alternately, the CableCARD itself could simply have an issue and need replacing, though I'd consider that a lot less likely if it's functioning in other devices OK.


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