# Amazon and YouTube removed from Series 2 and Series 3 TiVo's



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Amazon and YouTube removed from Series 2 and Series 3 TiVo's and TiVo has upgrade offers for those effected.

http://www.tivo.com/apphelp



> TiVo Series2 and TiVo HD/Series3 users:
> Amazon and YouTube apps are being discontinued.
> All good things must come to an end, right? Well, that's the case here. As of April 16, 2015, you will no longer be able to purchase or download content from Amazon with TiVo Series2 and TiVo HD/Series3 DVRs. You will, however, be able to continue watching the movies and TV episodes already purchased and downloaded in your Now Playing list. TiVo HD/Series3 users, you will no longer be able to access videos through the YouTube app. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause, and we realize that this is indeed a bummer, but there's a silver lining&#8230;
> 
> We've set aside smarter, stronger and zippier TiVo Roamio DVRs (which include the Amazon YouTube apps) at an extraordinary upgrade price just for you. These offers are so good they will make you forget this minor inconvenience ever happened. To hear all about it, contact the TiVo Call Center today at 877-BUY-TIVO.


This stuff is going away because backend support is being removed.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6098135?hl=en



> Certain older YouTube apps will no longer be supported after April 2015
> 
> Devices affected: Select devices manufactured in 2012 and earlier, including Sony TVs & Blu-ray Players, Panasonic TVs & Blu-ray Players, and devices running Google TV.
> 
> ...


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## n0pa (Aug 29, 2006)

Any idea what the deal is? I just bought a Roamio because my S3 died, but if i can get a better deal, i will return it.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

I called, the offer was only $25 off, $575 for a Basic TiVo with lifetime but since I am a long term customer, since 1999, I can get a Basic TiVo for $400 with lifetime so I accepted that offer which has nothing to do with the apps being discontinued.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

great, these old Tivos are becoming worthless.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

My TiVoHDs work great as OTA DVRs, nothing else, but that is good enough that I plan to continue to use them until they break. Amazon download and play later worked fine the few times I used it but I never used a TiVoHD for YouTube so that won't be missed at all.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

magnus said:


> great, these old Tivos are becoming worthless.


Well that's not universally true for everyone. 

Our S3 OLED's are still doing performing great for what we bought them for which is as a DVR (on cable here). The only 2 additional apps that we really use are Netflix and Pandora at this time so it would be a minor inconvenience to have to add an additional device but not a big problem.

We'll keep using them until Comcast switches us to mpg4 but I'm guessing that's years away for our small town.

Scott


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Whenever you see "we apologize for any inconvenience" just bend over. When you sue them just have your lawyer include that same phrase in his letter informing them of the suit.

Not that this particular issue would justify suing anyone.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

The Youtube app on the Tivo HD wasn't able to play commercials and didn't have that bright orange opening screen that gave you a suntan. I preferred using Youtube on the Tivo HD over the Premiere.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

HerronScott said:


> Well that's not universally true for everyone.
> 
> Our S3 OLED's are still doing performing great for what we bought them for which is as a DVR (on cable here). The only 2 additional apps that we really use are Netflix and Pandora at this time so it would be a minor inconvenience to have to add an additional device but not a big problem.
> 
> ...


well... maybe not worthless but certainly worth less.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

magnus said:


> well... maybe not worthless but certainly worth less.


I'll concede to that. 

Scott


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## zgeist (Nov 25, 2006)

I for one am not pleased. My kids LOVE the tivo app on our series 3. When I read that message to them they all but cried. I'm serious. They use that app to watch minecraft and terraria videos. 

And the tivo app is way safer for kids to use - not safe, just safer. It doesn't display nearly as much crap you don't want to see around your browser, like ads, etc.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

My TiVoHD is going strong. It works just fine for us. Granted, we only fork over $11/month to Comcast for basic.

But, yeah, I'm keeping this going as long as I can.


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## shaggy314 (Feb 18, 2007)

I always thought it was great seeing the name of what it was recording but TiVo didn't keep the idea (too expensive?).

The 10 year deal comes and goes and I took it to retire my series 2 after a decade of service.


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## gregpg (Apr 19, 2006)

I won't find Amazon Unbox going away to be a major issue because my Blu-ray player still handles Unbox just fine. Loss of Youtube and Video Podcasts sux for me though because I've been a heavy user of both on our TiVos, mostly for quick research on Tech, cooking, automotive, and medical info. 

How good are the tuners on Roamio OTA units? My PBS and ION affiliates are 30 to 40 miles away. Is that likely too far away for these new units to resolve the signal?

Alternatively, I could setup a wireless router as a gateway so I can view Youtube and Podcasts on my tablet. I've been hesitant to do that though because some bozos have been busted in our area jackin into folks Wifi for nefarious purposes.


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## drhoads (Apr 2, 2009)

Don't say because they are TiVo. The YouTube feature was something that I paid for when I first purchased my Series 3 HD. It was advertised as a feature to first sell the product. Now they take it away at their convenience? I'm sure there's something illegal about doing this. I don't care what their terms of service are.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

drhoads said:


> Don't say because they are TiVo. The YouTube feature was something that I paid for when I first purchased my Series 3 HD. It was advertised as a feature to first sell the product. Now they take it away at their convenience? I'm sure there's something illegal about doing this. I don't care what their terms of service are.


You did read that this is because Google is removing support for the older YouTube API? They did not take it away at their convenience.

Quote:

Certain older YouTube apps will no longer be supported after April 2015

Devices affected: Select devices manufactured in 2012 and earlier, including Sony TVs & Blu-ray Players, Panasonic TVs & Blu-ray Players, and devices running Google TV.

On April 20, 2015, we will no longer support the YouTube app on certain device models from 2012 and older, as we upgrade the Data API that these apps are based on.

We will continue to focus our efforts on improving our official YouTube app for TV which is available on most 2013 and newer smart TVs, Blu-ray players, game consoles, and streaming devices. You can find a list of our device partners here.

How can I continue using YouTube on my TV?

If you have a web browser on your Smart TV that supports flash and/or html5, you may be able to continue using YouTube by visiting youtube.com in your browser.

Scott


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## Riblet2000 (Feb 8, 2005)

TiVo has been going down hill so fast over the last several years that this doesn't surprise me at all, and it doesn't matter. Whatever the "official" reason the real one is they are sick and tired of their long-time customers who haven't bought anything new over the last 5 years. So, we get the bum's rush out the door.

Fine.

This isn't 2000 and there are now several much better and cheaper ways to get more functionality than the bright shiny new units TiVo is trying to coax us into buying from them. NO thanks. Won't be fooled again.

Good bye. You won't miss my ~$40/mo anyway.


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## jeffw_00 (Sep 19, 2000)

Yes it's YouTube's fault and not Tivo. But maybe it IS TiVo's fault for selling the consumer something a box, NOT a service, but a box that is promised to do certain things (assumedly forever), and NOT contracting with their providers in such a way to make it so.

On the other hand, a upgradable BluRay player with Mega streaming facilities can be had for under $100. 

I think the problem is that the HD came out just a bit too early to be a real streaming platform.

just my $.02
/j


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## atotten (Dec 18, 2008)

dlfl said:


> Whenever you see "we apologize for any inconvenience" just bend over. When you sue them just have your lawyer include that same phrase in his letter informing them of the suit.
> 
> Not that this particular issue would justify suing anyone.


I have been wondering about those of us who bought lifetime service that had these features included. Maybe breach of contract would be worth suing over. I know I would like to but have no clue how to go about it.


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## atotten (Dec 18, 2008)

drhoads said:


> Don't say because they are TiVo. The YouTube feature was something that I paid for when I first purchased my Series 3 HD. It was advertised as a feature to first sell the product. Now they take it away at their convenience? I'm sure there's something illegal about doing this. I don't care what their terms of service are.


I'm with you. I am trying to figure out where the terms of service is that came with my lifetime. Anyone have any ideas where I could get that info? I'm sure they have pulled it from their site by now, dont want to hire a computer forensics person 
Besides, I suspect a savvy programmer could retro fit the .api so it still worked... just guessing of course ... but it would cost Tivo to make good on what they sold us. Still, I do believe a class action suit would sort this out.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Riblet2000 said:


> TiVo has been going down hill so fast over the last several years that this doesn't surprise me at all, and it doesn't matter. Whatever the "official" reason the real one is they are sick and tired of their long-time customers who haven't bought anything new over the last 5 years. So, we get the bum's rush out the door.
> 
> Fine.
> 
> ...


I'd like to know why you think they've been going downhill? The Roamio appears to be a great improvement (ie faster with better Netflix client, and additional streaming services). I'm not upgrading at this time just because my S3 OLED's with lifetime are still doing what I bought them for which is DVR functionality (over 8 years now). When/if Comcast switches to MPG4 locally, I will be looking at a Premiere or Roamio replacement.

What DVR are you going to replace TiVo with that's better (and cheaper)? At least with Comcast, it is not the X1. I colleague at work has had several issues due to large outages with not being able to watch even already recorded shows.

Scott


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

atotten said:


> I'm with you. I am trying to figure out where the terms of service is that came with my lifetime. Anyone have any ideas where I could get that info? I'm sure they have pulled it from their site by now, dont want to hire a computer forensics person


The current terms are here.

https://www.tivo.com/legal/terms

And you are bound to updates by continuing to use TiVo products after the changes become effective.

Changes to this Agreement

We need the flexibility to update this agreement from time to time as our business changes. If we make substantive changes, we will notify you at least 15 days in advance (to give you time to review the changes and cancel your account if you do not want to be bound by the revised version, though we certainly hope you do not do so). By continuing to use TiVo products after those changes become effective, you agree to be bound by the revised version of this agreement. If we make changes to the dispute resolution provision, such changes will not apply to disputes arising before the changes become effective.

I'm pretty sure that even the original terms of service made no warranties or guarantees with third party applications.

Scott


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## atotten (Dec 18, 2008)

HerronScott said:


> The current terms are here.
> 
> https://www.tivo.com/legal/terms
> 
> ...


Thanks for the research Scott. I saw those current terms. Of course there is no remedy for the lifetime subscribers. And I believe the language has changed since I bought my series 1,2 and 3


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

Riblet2000 said:


> TiVo has been going down hill so fast over the last several years that this doesn't surprise me at all, and it doesn't matter. Whatever the "official" reason the real one is they are sick and tired of their long-time customers who haven't bought anything new over the last 5 years. So, we get the bum's rush out the door.
> 
> .


If you have any evidence this is true, I would like to see it. I believe it is either impossible or too expensive to justify making these old models continue to work with these services at this time, TiVo had no choice from a business perspective. If you think companies should spend whatever is necessary to keep you happy, regardless of profit impact, you are free to believe such nonsense but I sure don't.

I wish it made sense to continue to offer all services that were once available for my TiVoHDs and all new services available to the newer TiVos, but that is either impossible or cost prohibitive. I will continue to use my TiVoHDs for OTA for as long as possible or as long as it makes sense for me. I sure don't blame TiVo for this situation. It is inevitable that progress will impact older products negatively, TiVo is far from the only example of this in my household.


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## degobahjunk (Jan 10, 2009)

zgeist said:


> I for one am not pleased. My kids LOVE the tivo app on our series 3. When I read that message to them they all but cried. I'm serious. They use that app to watch minecraft and terraria videos.
> 
> And the tivo app is way safer for kids to use - not safe, just safer. It doesn't display nearly as much crap you don't want to see around your browser, like ads, etc.


We just got the discontinue message about YouTube & Amazon Prime Streaming on our TiVo HD tonight. My son actually did tear up. He used to watch Minecraft videos all the time. Stampy Longnose, iBallistic Squid, and some other American couple. All. The. Time! He is soooooo upset. I'm none too happy. You'd think they could have sent out an email notice ahead of time so we could have time to anticipate & accept the change.

Really lame way to treat loyal customers since 2004.


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## dcstager (Feb 16, 2002)

I liked the Netflix interface on the Series 3 but that's all gone now too. You have to go online and put things in your instant queue to play anything on the Series 3 now. I don't know why they had to remove so much from the Netflix app on the Tivo Series 3. Put that back Tivo masters. That change was unnecessary.


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## davidblackledge (Sep 9, 2008)

As of today, my Series 3 can still play YouTube videos using Enter Webz (EnterWebz.tv).
Both deadlines have passed: TiVo's 4/15 app removal deadline, and YouTube's 4/20 API deprecation deadline (which prompted TiVo's deadline).

But today, 4/24, the app still exists on TiVo's servers (just hidden from the TiVo's menus) and it is still functioning to play videos when you use the EWz Youtube.com page.

Since the API was deprecated and TiVo felt the app removal was necessary, it is only a matter of time before the deprecation breaks the app, or TiVo shuts down the actual hidden app. But until that day, Enjoy a little more YouTube time with EWz.


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## dd9 (Aug 10, 2000)

I found another way to get to YouTube. Select any program from Now Playing, then choose Explore this Program. From here, choose Bonus Features and you can select YouTube. It will come up in the search menu with text for whatever show you had selected, but you can now navigate the YouTube interface as before.

I also see that the 1st video to come up in any search is from YouTube Help noting that support for this device will soon go away, so who knows how long before it just doesn't work correctly anymore.


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## Quaro (Sep 14, 2004)

Out of nowhere, two features I used a lot are just gone.

And the Netflix app they did leave is a husk that can't do anything but play from the default profile's instant queue. 

This makes me much less likely to consider upgrading to a Roamio, knowing they might just drop support at any time.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

davidblackledge said:


> As of today, my Series 3 can still play YouTube videos using Enter Webz (EnterWebz.tv).
> Both deadlines have passed: TiVo's 4/15 app removal deadline, and YouTube's 4/20 API deprecation deadline (which prompted TiVo's deadline).
> 
> But today, 4/24, the app still exists on TiVo's servers (just hidden from the TiVo's menus) and it is still functioning to play videos when you use the EWz Youtube.com page.
> ...


I believe the YouTube API deprecation is actually early May now, expect the end then. I believe Apple TV 2, Google TV app, TiVo, and several other devices will lose YouTube. I am not certain but I don't think it is possible for those and many other older devices to continue to access YouTube when this happens.

If it is necessary collateral damage to improve the service, so be it, I won't lose any sleep over it.


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## gregpg (Apr 19, 2006)

Chris Gerhard said:


> If you have any evidence this is true, I would like to see it. I believe it is either impossible or too expensive to justify making these old models continue to work with these services at this time, TiVo had no choice from a business perspective.


TiVo's are general purpose computers built around video processing chips. They run Linux. Updating the frontend apps to use updated backends running on TiVo's servers is simply a programming job and since, at least for YouTube, the old app is a streaming app just like the Roamio one, that shouldn't be a very hard job. The YouTube and Unbox API changes simply gave TiVo an opportunity to reduce the functionality of the Series 3 platform, presumably speeding up migration of the customer base to Roamio while reducing the value of Series 3 boxes in the used hardware market. TiVo wants to sell Roamios to everyone, including the folks who might otherwise buy a used box but might not now because of the reduced functionality.


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## davidblackledge (Sep 9, 2008)

Chris Gerhard said:


> I believe the YouTube API deprecation is actually early May now, expect the end then.


I'm having trouble finding anything to support a new date. Could you post a link about it?


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

dcstager said:


> I liked the Netflix interface on the Series 3 but that's all gone now too. You have to go online and put things in your instant queue to play anything on the Series 3 now. I don't know why they had to remove so much from the Netflix app on the Tivo Series 3. Put that back Tivo masters. That change was unnecessary.


There hasn't been any change in the Netflix interface on the S3 that I can see? You've always had to add items to the instant queue from your PC which has been one of the biggest complaints about the S3 interface once other devices started to have better clients.

The other way to play Netflix content on the S3 (which I typically use except for TV series) is to use TiVo Search which shows you if the content is available on Netflix and play directly from there without adding it to your instant queue.

Scott


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

gregpg said:


> The YouTube and Unbox API changes simply gave TiVo an opportunity to reduce the functionality of the Series 3 platform, presumably speeding up migration of the customer base to Roamio while reducing the value of Series 3 boxes in the used hardware market. TiVo wants to sell Roamios to everyone, including the folks who might otherwise buy a used box but might not now because of the reduced functionality.


TiVo only cares about one thing - subscribers. Selling a new Roamio costs TiVo money as they take a hit on every box sold, but they make it up on the subscription. Unless the S3 has lifetime (which was obtained long after they were sold since when the S3 was released, it was not possible to buy lifetime service at all), a used S3 is more ideal as it's free money coming in without having to pay for hardware subsidies.

No, the reason is software support - yes, TiVo is a general purpose computer, but it's still a specialized piece of kit with special software required to build and all that.

APIs change, the tools change, and even build environments change - sure it's Linux, but do yesterday's build tools work with today's OS? Maybe, maybe not. Today's software probably doesn't build using yesterday's compilers without a lot of mucking about either. And TiVo's runtime environment has changed, so someone has to get up to speed on how the old software worked.

Oh, and let's not forget that in-between it all, a lot of the stuff TiVo shipped went from GPLv2 to GPLv3, which means now you have to get a lawyer involved just to make sure things are still kosher. (The GPLv3 has probably been the biggest disruption I've ever seen - companies have starting putting into place review boards and legal policies on how open source may be used - either internally, or with shipped products. And I've been at a few where every new open-source thing needs approval, and they've already said anything GPL will not be considered unless you can present a case on what it is, why you need it, why there are no alternatives (including commercially license) and what exactly it's to be used for and how you will control it.) And perhaps Google's new YouTube T&Cs make it such that it can't be done to the level of granularity Google needs for their ads.

TiVo probably weighed their options - the number of S3 units still running, the number of S3 units actually using these services, the development costs associated with updating it, etc. I like my S3 because it's OLED is wonderful. But it's also an 8 year old device, especially with many other options that work far better. Amazon and YouTube? You can pick up a FireTV stick, or Roku for $35, if you don't already have a half dozen other things that work as well. (Sorry, but the TiVo's ad-free YouTube would go away with the update - it's the reason WHY Google is getting rid of it).


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## grinchers (Feb 7, 2009)

Thank you! For now this is a good replacement for the You Tube app...who knows how long it will work, but for now, IT WORKS!



davidblackledge said:


> As of today, my Series 3 can still play YouTube videos using Enter Webz (EnterWebz.tv).
> Both deadlines have passed: TiVo's 4/15 app removal deadline, and YouTube's 4/20 API deprecation deadline (which prompted TiVo's deadline).
> 
> But today, 4/24, the app still exists on TiVo's servers (just hidden from the TiVo's menus) and it is still functioning to play videos when you use the EWz Youtube.com page.
> ...


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Worf said:


> TiVo only cares about one thing - subscribers. Selling a new Roamio costs TiVo money as they take a hit on every box sold, but they make it up on the subscription. Unless the S3 has lifetime (which was obtained long after they were sold since when the S3 was released, it was not possible to buy lifetime service at all), a used S3 is more ideal as it's free money coming in without having to pay for hardware subsidies.
> 
> No, the reason is software support - yes, TiVo is a general purpose computer, but it's still a specialized piece of kit with special software required to build and all that.
> 
> ...


We've had 2 S3 OLED's since December 2006/January 2007 and I don't have an issue pretty much for the reasons you state above. The Premiere was released in 2010 so even the newest S3 HD's would be 5 years old at this point.

If TiVo has to drop the Netflix and Pandora features from our S3, I'll just buy a FireTV stick or Roku stick as you mentioned. The S3's will keep doing what they do best is recording and playing back TV shows (well until Comcast rolls out MPG4 then I'll have to upgrade to a newer model).

Scott


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## spocko (Feb 4, 2009)

HerronScott said:


> The S3's will keep doing what they do best is recording and playing back TV shows (well until Comcast rolls out MPG4 then I'll have to upgrade to a newer model).


The TivoHD hardware actually is actually capable of handling MPG4. For some reason Tivo just decided not to provide the necessary software update in the US.


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## emfinlay (Sep 21, 2008)

Another kick here regarding Netflix; just discovered that subtitles are not an option for my Series3, so if I want subtitles, I have to go watch on my premiere, PC, or Ipad. OK, not the end of the world, but not very convenient and another reason to get annoyed with Tivo. I have a smart TV and should get CC, but if it's connected to a cable box (in this case Tivo) the box controls the CC, not the TV.


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## duftopia (Dec 14, 2011)

I got my moneys worth and then some from my Tivo Series 3, I did the same with ALL the Sony products I bought since the mid 70's, one must understand to remain viable a path to NEWER products must be induced to keep a product line fresh.

I regret that Sony in general has been retreating to the recess of obscurity by concentrating on being just the PlayStation Company when at one point in time EVERYTHING ELECTRONIC I OWNED was SONY and I upgraded myself and clients to newer and newer models simply because those who could afford it, paid for new things and those who could not boasted and made SONY #1.

Sony attitude changed towards the US when garbage became the MOST profitable avenue for the average Americans who no longer held companies to higher standards and appreciated the cutting edge Tech that SONY provided...

I was using a "Gigapocket" Vaio TV recorder before TIVO even appeared, recording analog broadcasts, sold over 300 Series 2 Tivo's when Sony Sacked zapit tv listing guide for the gigpocket, then a number of sony series 3 HD units which I officially owned and registered for myself so I was pleased with the whole affair.

However The Roamio is a cop out, its the end of the TIVO generation if this continues, losing features w/o adding functionality is a death sign like the SONY desktops, TV's and Laptops (almost there), Boom boxes etc...

I was hoping for Skype and a full web browser on the new generation of TIVO instead I am now searching for a replacement to the SONY product like I replaced nearly all my Sony desktop, Laptop, Camera, DVD and Blu-ray products.

I will sorely miss you SONY when all you are is a patent holding parts company run by lawyers protecting your retirement fund... Time to Innovate, grow and show your true genius and overcome.

Make ALL your devices do EVERYTHING at different tech levels if necessary, add MORE Functionality and less stupidity... Recording 6 shows at the same time, how pointless is that when you drop youtube, podcast, amazon support and if you need such a feature why not go with hopper 12 shows in unison.

Open Source your TIVOS for everyone to join in modding them - I use to know the telnet method to log into even my series 3 but that's been wiped from the internet.. IF you don't have the will to save the TIVO before it goes the way of the Vaio Desktops then let the intelligent US citizen MAKE your market for you.

AS I said I am grim about the TIVO's future in my and my clients homes, I do not see the sparkling innovation and determination that MADE SONY a leader anymore, and it was not US Capitalism dogma of rob your clients, sell junk to them, abuse them and brainwash them that put SONY on the MAP - it was hard work, REAL capitalism and innovation...The public that buys your products were the SMART people, if dumb consumers are all you want then you will go down with the industry when people like ASUS, Samsung, Haupauge, MS Xbox replace you products as they did for me and mine.

You got me into a TIVO - now do your magic innovation tricks and make it MORE functional!

OH yes, if anyone knows the telnet instructions "contact at duftopia.com" OR how to get video podcast, youtube back on my series 3 (or even roamio should I stay with SONY), please drop a line here 

Duf


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

dufster, 

Do you know about d34ld4t4b4s3.com?

(replace each 3 with an e and each 4 with an a to get what TCF would have replaced with a string of *s)


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