# S3 + Plasma = Useless Remote?



## SLCMike

When I was setting up my S3, I had it sitting on the table that my 42 inch plasma is sitting on. I noted that my remote didn't work very well during setup -- only registering about 30% of my remote actions. This was true for both my old and new TiVo remote incidentally. I figured the problem had something to do with was the fact the S3 was sitting right in front of the plasma and the light from the plasma was somehow messing with the IR recevier on the S3. So I created a "hood" for my S3 with a blanket (high tech) and the remote immediately started working considerably better. I figured it was just a temporary fix until I moved the S3 next to my S2 under the TV.

Now that I have the S3 under the television (the TV is on a table with a shelf underneath for AV equipment) with no rigged up hood, the IR reception on the S3 sucks worse than ever! I would say that I only register 5% of my remote actions. It's infuriating! It makes using my S3 next to impossible to be honest. 

It's very strange as my S3 is literally sitting right next to my S2. When I press the remote, I can instantly see the light on the S2 light up every time I press a key on the remote. On the S3 it lights up once in a blue moon. My first thought was "there's something wrong with the TiVo." However if I turn OFF my plasma, both the S2 and S3 light up at the same time -- every time -- when I press a remote button. This suggests that it is in fact the plasma that's causing problems. 

Now the question... Is it still a problem with the new TiVo? Or is this a common problem with some IR receptors? Again, I've used my S2 for many years with no such problems. I am incredibly bummed that I finally got my S3 functioning only to find it nearly useless due to the remote being useless! 

Any help would be appreciated.


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## eisenb11

I've played with my S3 a little bit (more on Friday when I get my CCs installed)... I've been getting the impression that the IR sensor is not very sensitive.

I haven't had a chance to try, but I wonder if you need to have a more direct line between the remote and the sensor.

I also noticed that the remote seems to work better if I hold it so the top points towards the ceiling (but not straight up)...

Weirdness...


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## btwyx

It works for me, I have a Plasma display, but I also use a Pronto. The Pronto's IR is notably strong.


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## SLCMike

I've actually gone ahead and ordered another S3 from CircuitCity. (I have a store here locally, so it should be easy to return one of the two.) I will see if the new unit has the same problem or not. I'm guessing that it's some sort of IR related hardware problem on the new S3 given my S2 has / continues to work flawlessly. As ridiculously bad as the IR sensor appears to be, I have to believe something is wrong. There's no doubt there would be a load of complaints registered here if people were experiencing what I am. Will post again when I get the new unit and reactivate my CC's in it (arrrrrgh!)


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## timmetro69

SLCMike said:


> When I was setting up my S3, I had it sitting on the table that my 42 inch plasma is sitting on. I noted that my remote didn't work very well during setup -- only registering about 30% of my remote actions. This was true for both my old and new TiVo remote incidentally. I figured the problem had something to do with was the fact the S3 was sitting right in front of the plasma and the light from the plasma was somehow messing with the IR recevier on the S3. So I created a "hood" for my S3 with a blanket (high tech) and the remote immediately started working considerably better. I figured it was just a temporary fix until I moved the S3 next to my S2 under the TV.
> 
> Now that I have the S3 under the television (the TV is on a table with a shelf underneath for AV equipment) with no rigged up hood, the IR reception on the S3 sucks worse than ever! I would say that I only register 5% of my remote actions. It's infuriating! It makes using my S3 next to impossible to be honest.
> 
> It's very strange as my S3 is literally sitting right next to my S2. When I press the remote, I can instantly see the light on the S2 light up every time I press a key on the remote. On the S3 it lights up once in a blue moon. My first thought was "there's something wrong with the TiVo." However if I turn OFF my plasma, both the S2 and S3 light up at the same time -- every time -- when I press a remote button. This suggests that it is in fact the plasma that's causing problems.
> 
> Now the question... Is it still a problem with the new TiVo? Or is this a common problem with some IR receptors? Again, I've used my S2 for many years with no such problems. I am incredibly bummed that I finally got my S3 functioning only to find it nearly useless due to the remote being useless!
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.


Same problem here. Very frustrating. I, too, have a 42" plasma and my S3 is about 12 inches to the left of it in an open equipment rack. I'm probably eight feet away from the front of the S3 and the remote response is probably 50% at best.

I think I'll try a few experiments and see if I can shield the front of the S3 from the evil rays of the plasma screen.


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## SLCMike

I actually just ordered another S3 due to this issue. Hopefully it will arrive either Friday or Saturday. I simply don't believe that this problem is not an IR related hardware problem in the S3. My S3 is basically unusable. =/ I've had no problem at all with my S2 which is sitting directly next to the S3. I guess I will know whether it's a hardware problem when the next S3 arrives! I will post my the results when I've got the new box. (I suppose I don't actually have to reactivate the CC's for that box to test whether it works better thankfully.)


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## eisenb11

Just for fun, try pointing your remote towards the ceiling (but not at 90 degrees) with the back facing the S3.

This seemed to raise my success rate from about 50% to 80%... Let me know what happens when you try it.

If this really has an effect, I'm thinking the problem may be with the design of the remote control....


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## abobrow

I know that plasmas emit ir noise. When I had this problem with a different device I was told to make sure the ir receiver sits behind the plane of the plasma screen. i.e., even if it's on a shelf under the tv, scooch it back a few inches. Maybe that will help, FWIW.


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## eisenb11

abobrow said:


> I know that plasmas emit ir noise. When I had this problem with a different device I was told to make sure the ir receiver sits behind the plane of the plasma screen. i.e., even if it's on a shelf under the tv, scooch it back a few inches. Maybe that will help, FWIW.


Hmm, that could pose problems if the plasma is against the wall... can't move the tivo beyond that! 

Sorta odd though that out of all my devices with IR, the S3 is the only one affected by this...


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## fergiej

Using my URC MX-850 and an MRF-250 with a blaster taped to the IR port, I am getting at least 98% success rate!  Still not entirely perfect, though. 'course not everyone wants to spend $500 for a remote...just sayin'...


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## MikePeekskill

It's definitely a plasma thing -- same thing happened to me. You need to move the Tivo around (if possible) so that it's far enough away (and preferably behind) the plasma. As someone else stated, I use an IR repeater and have the Tivo in another room. But plasmas are notorious for screwing with the IR signal especially if the Tivo is near the front of the plasma. Hope this helps.


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## Stormspace

SLCMike said:


> I've actually gone ahead and ordered another S3 from CircuitCity. (I have a store here locally, so it should be easy to return one of the two.) I will see if the new unit has the same problem or not. I'm guessing that it's some sort of IR related hardware problem on the new S3 given my S2 has / continues to work flawlessly. As ridiculously bad as the IR sensor appears to be, I have to believe something is wrong. There's no doubt there would be a load of complaints registered here if people were experiencing what I am. Will post again when I get the new unit and reactivate my CC's in it (arrrrrgh!)


A couple of things to consider.

Is the shelf above the TiVo and below the plasma made of glass? That would allow the interference to affect the TiVo.

Have you tried pushing the TiVo back further on the shelf so that it is shielded more from above? Or conversely moving it forward if it was back already?

Does the remote work it you are right next to the TiVo, but not further away?

Is the room very bright with lots of incandescent lighting, or sunlight?


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## SLCMike

Stormspace said:


> Is the shelf above the TiVo and below the plasma made of glass? That would allow the interference to affect the TiVo.


Nope. 1/4 inch slate tiles. None of the light emitted from the plasma would be coming directly at or down on the TiVo. Again, my S2 is literally side by side with the S3 and has no problems at all -- nor has it ever! That's why I'm of the opinion it's a hardware problem.



> Have you tried pushing the TiVo back further on the shelf so that it is shielded more from above? Or conversely moving it forward if it was back already?


The plasma is essentially against the wall. Unfortunately moving it really isn't an option in our current house. Nor is moving the TiVo really, not without doing some significant rearranging anyway. For the sake of science and this post I did in fact move our plasma forward of the plane of the S3. The problem became worse actually!



> Does the remote work it you are right next to the TiVo, but not further away?


Notably, it does *not* work particularly well, even at the 3 - 6 inch range. It still has the same issues so long as the plasma is on.



> Is the room very bright with lots of incandescent lighting, or sunlight?


Not at all. It's a basement room, small windows. Very little ambient light, effectively zero ambient light at night if the lights are off. (I've tested in all conditions.) As long as the plasma is on, there's an issue with the S3's IR. When it's off there's very little. I would be happy to blame everything on my plasma if the S2 (or any other A/V equipment, all of which sits under the plasma) had similar issues, but there are none.

To answer an earlier question about the remote... I know it's not a problem with the remote in my case, because the S3 exhibits the same behavior when I'm using either the old remote from my S2 or the new remote from the S3. Pointing the remote at the ceiling didn't seem to change my results any either.

I guess I'll know whether or not the plasma is to blame when I get a replacement S3 later this week! Thanks for all of your replies... I guess I can get a repeater or something if it turns out my plasma is to blame. Frustrating!


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## classicX

SLCMike said:


> When I was setting up my S3, I had it sitting on the table that my 42 inch plasma is sitting on. I noted that my remote didn't work very well during setup -- only registering about 30% of my remote actions. This was true for both my old and new TiVo remote incidentally. I figured the problem had something to do with was the fact the S3 was sitting right in front of the plasma and the light from the plasma was somehow messing with the IR recevier on the S3. So I created a "hood" for my S3 with a blanket (high tech) and the remote immediately started working considerably better. I figured it was just a temporary fix until I moved the S3 next to my S2 under the TV.
> 
> Now that I have the S3 under the television (the TV is on a table with a shelf underneath for AV equipment) with no rigged up hood, the IR reception on the S3 sucks worse than ever! I would say that I only register 5% of my remote actions. It's infuriating! It makes using my S3 next to impossible to be honest.
> 
> It's very strange as my S3 is literally sitting right next to my S2. When I press the remote, I can instantly see the light on the S2 light up every time I press a key on the remote. On the S3 it lights up once in a blue moon. My first thought was "there's something wrong with the TiVo." However if I turn OFF my plasma, both the S2 and S3 light up at the same time -- every time -- when I press a remote button. This suggests that it is in fact the plasma that's causing problems.
> 
> Now the question... Is it still a problem with the new TiVo? Or is this a common problem with some IR receptors? Again, I've used my S2 for many years with no such problems. I am incredibly bummed that I finally got my S3 functioning only to find it nearly useless due to the remote being useless!
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.


Seems to me you've answered your own question. Try using an IR repeater system with a plasma-proof IR receiver.


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## SLCMike

classicX said:


> Seems to me you've answered your own question. Try using an IR repeater system with a plasma-proof IR receiver.


Based on the fact my S2, DVD player, STB, TV, etc. have no such issues and are located in the exact same area as my S3, I find it hard to believe it's not simply a problem with the S3 to be honest. I've got another S3 on the way, so I suppose I will know whether it's a hardware problem soon enough.


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## bferrell

I've got my S3 mounted directly underneath (less than a foot of) my 42" HD Hitachi Plasma, and don't have any problems.

Brett


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## Alcatraz

The title of this thread definitely caught my eye so I started poking around on Google for "ir plasma interference" and a quick review of the results shows it's certainly possible. I don't have either..S3 or plasma..yet, but this would make me worry about getting either.

Is the interference a result of the TV shining directly on the S3, or is it coming from a reflection off the back wall? What happens if you turn the Tivo box and try to bounce the remote signal off the wall?


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## onativo

Had the same problem with my S3/Remote. Called TiVo support and they told me to do the following:

Remove all other remotes from the room (or put them in a closed drawer/cabinet). See if problem is resolved.

It worked for me. Something about certain remotes emitting IR signals (even when they aren't being used) and confusing the S3 box.

Brad


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## NJChris

Is the protective plastic removed off the front of the tivo? I don't know if this can interfere, but couldn't hurt to ask. 

The edge of it was hard for me to get a grip on.... I wasn't even sure it was there.. but it was.


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## SLCMike

Just to follow up... I've just received the secondary S3 I ordered to replace the one that I believed was having IR issues that were hardware related. I ran it downstairs, placed it on top of the first S3 and, in short, it works perfectly. No remote / IR issues at all. It responds to the remote just as well as my S2 and the rest of my AV equipment. The IR "light" lights up at the exact same time the S2's when I press a button on the remote. Now I get to go through the joy of getting Comcast to reactivate my CC's for the new S3! =)

The build date on both my good *and* bad S3 are August 26, 2006 FWIW. If any of you are having IR issues like mine -- issues that none of your other AV equipment have -- I would suggest considering the possibility your S3 has an IR sensor problem. Mine clearly did. The original S3 goes back to CircuitCity tomorrow.


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## jetboy_jones

So now I'm worried that I could have an S3 with problem IR reception but because I don't currently have a plasma tv I can't test it. I guess I have to get a plasma now 

P.S. TIVO, how about adding a Plasma proximity step to your hardware QA.


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## bocktar

I'm using the S3 w/ a Sony KDE42XS955 plasma and have not experienced any IR issues. The room has windows and abundant daylight at times.


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## tgbroom

I have 3 S3's, 1 with 42" elite- having IR problems, 1 with 50" elite- having IR problems, 1 with Qualia Projector- no Problems....

did everything suggested to try and fix, also using IR repeaters with Plasmas, no luck.

So i have to freakin' return them? WTF?


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## MichaelK

plasma's AND the backlights from directview LCD's can screw up IR receivers.

There's lots of info on the web about the plasma's.

I can attest personally to the issues with SHARP Aquos LCD's. 

sounds like the OP's plasma might be only a tad bit troublesome such that it is enough to screw up a faulty receiver (in the bad tivo) but not mess up a good receiver (in the new tivo or the other devices)


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## MichaelK

tgbroom said:


> I have 3 S3's, 1 with 42" elite- having IR problems, 1 with 50" elite- having IR problems, 1 with Qualia Projector- no Problems....
> 
> did everything suggested to try and fix, also using IR repeaters with Plasmas, no luck.
> 
> So i have to freakin' return them? WTF?


I found that not all plasma rated repeaters are equal.

I found the speakercraft targets work well. They work well at filtering out the background light from the plasma/lcd's but allowing the remotes to work well.


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## tgbroom

never had any issues with previous S2's with everything else remaining the same, and in the same position.

kinda frustrating when trying to us remote....


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## MichaelK

tgbroom said:


> never had any issues with previous S2's with everything else remaining the same, and in the same position.
> 
> kinda frustrating when trying to us remote....


readign the OP it seems clear that not all IR receivers are equal.

Might want to try and return it and see if a differnt S3 is better.

But might also be a different brand or style IR receiver in the S3 so it's more susceptible.

Dont know myself.


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## MacGuruTX

I'm having the exact same Problem but with an LCD...

Sharp Aquos 37"

Turn off the TV and the Tivo works great. With it on, its at about 1% reception.

I've tried covering the TV ir receiver, moving the S3 back and forth and over in relation to the LCD with no luck.

Turn off the TV and you get instant reception on the S3...


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## MichaelK

MacGuruTX said:


> I'm having the exact same Problem but with an LCD...
> 
> Sharp Aquos 37"
> 
> Turn off the TV and the Tivo works great. With it on, its at about 1% reception.
> 
> I've tried covering the TV ir receiver, moving the S3 back and forth and over in relation to the LCD with no luck.
> 
> Turn off the TV and you get instant reception on the S3...


I have the exact same tv-- the backlight creates havoc for IR recievers. Apparently Sharp uses a full spectrum bulb or somethign for the backlights and they give off tons of IR that can drown out the infrared sent by the remote control. (how there remote isn't effected I dont know)

There's a couple things to try- adjust the setting for the backlight brightness. Turn it down all the way and see if that helps, then turn it up slowly to see when you get hosed.

If that doesn't work then you can use the speakercraft plasma proof IR repeater. It will set you back some scratch. I tried Channel PLus and one other brand and the speakercraft plasma proof target was the only one I could get to work.

Basically they have a little target, then you need a conroller block and then an emitter- they make little sheilds that cover their emitters if you want to leave the S3 out in view- you can attach the emmiteer and cover it with the sheild and hopefully only the inteded IR gets in to the S3's 'eye'.

When I first got the set it caused intermittent problems with my HDVR2 (SD directivo) and the various IR repaeters I tried to use to place the HDVR2 in an adjacent closet.

I finally figured out that I had the backlight set on the auto adjust setting- if it was pitch dark the backlight would be low enough that i had no issues (not enough stray IR to cause issues) . If it was daylight it wouldn't work with the HDVR2 but would work with the plasma proof repeater -with speaking to speakercraft tech support we finally figured out after much trial and error- and using the nightshot on my sony camcorder to "see" the IR interference- that during the day the backlight would be so bright as to trigger the electronic filter in the plasma proof target. In the middle, it was pretty much hopeless- too much IR interference to get stuff to work directly and too little to trigger the electronic filter in the plasma proof target.

(also helps somewhat to get the IR "eye" behind the LCD- but if you are hanging it on a wall that's basically not an option.)

Good luck.


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## ronfl

Cable card install finished today, and having the same irritating 50-80% failure on remote IR commands.

I called TiVo and they apparently have many calls on this, the agent I spoke with said he was forwarding my issue to "engineering". He said it's a known issue but they are not sure what is causing it. He suggested that it was my TV (Samsung 63" plasma), but my S2 sat right under the TV on the same spot where the S3 is with no issues.

He mentioned that they may be able to resolve with a firmware/software update. I'm debating on if I should send it back or wait? If I do want to send it back for an exchange, what should I say so they send a new one and pay the shipping.


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## eisenb11

Hi guys, I have some info for you.

My plasma (Marantz PD5040D) has been having the same issue. If I turn it off the remote it works like a superhero, turn it on and it's superman on kryptonite.

I talked to tech support and they said it's a big issue at Tivo because there are a lot of plasma owners and if the plasma is mounted against a wall it's impossible to rececess the S3 further than the plasma.

They also said they have a lot of reports on this problem and it's driving plasma guys up the wall.

They said they're looking into 2 solutions.

1) changing the IR codes to ones that are more plasma compatible
2) changing the IR hardware in the S3

They said that if they change the hardware and our plasma is causing problems that should be good enough grounds for an exchange.


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## lightrunner

Unfortunately I am having the same problem. I purchased 2 Tivo S3's. One for my Samsung HLP5685W DLP and the other for my Pioneer PDP-4270HD.
I started setting up the S3 for my plasma first. I positioned the S3 directly underneath the plasma in the first shelf of my wooden table top stand. Everything was going fine until I ran into the same Remote Control issue. The S3 would only respond about every 10 to 15 clicks on the remote. I thought it might be the remote so I opened the box of my second S3 (for the Samsung DLP) and pulled out the remote and tried it only to find out it did the same thing. Then I suspected bad batch of batteries. So I replaced all the batteries on the remote and still the same problem. I had heard about possible interference from other remotes so I took all other remotes in the room out of the room and still the same problem. 
Then I started suspecting a bad S3. I grabbed the other one from the box and slapped it in and still the same problem. Then I thought maybe a batch of bad Tivo S3s. So I took both of them out to my living room where my Samsung DLP sits and plugged both of them in directly underneath the DLP one at a time. Both worked perfectly. 
I had also heard that Plasmas can cause a lot of IR interference. I took one of the S3s back to the other room where the plasma is to try some different combinations. First I pulled the plasma as far forward as the table top stand would let me and then situated the S3 on the same first shelf but this time scooted it as far back as it would go. By doing this I was able to set the S3 behind the front plane of the plasma. It looked ugly as hell and Im glad it did because it still didnt work. Next I set the plasma and the S3 back to their normal positions, this time I turned off the plasma and immediately I could see the remote control light responding perfectly to my clicks on the remote. However I still was not sure if this was truly working since I couldnt see nor hear anything on the screen (S3 directly connected to plasma via hdmi when plasma off all is off). So I grabbed a dark garbage bag and covered the plasma with it and turned it on and noticed S3 still working as if the Plasma was off. Then I pulled the garbage bag off and turned down the brightness on the plasma. This didnt work. Then I set the brightness back and pulled out everything from the other shelves and placed the S3 at the bottom shelf which is about two feet below the plasma. This didnt work either although I started getting better response about every 5 to 8 clicks on the remote. So then I decided to create a hood for the S3. I just took the advertisement from the Tivo HD box, the one with the gray dots and looks kinda like onion paper and reads The TiVolution will now be televised in HD
I just placed that (long way cross sectional to the S3) on top of the S3 (still in the bottom shelf) and just let it hang over the face of the S3 and the remote started working perfectly. 
Its such a shame since the new S3 looks so nice. 
I called Tivo support and they stated it was a bad remote. I explained to the tech everything that I did and still he said both remotes were bad Ill send you 2 new ones. Here is your case number. Goodbye 
I started researching online when I cam across this thread. Once I read about SLCMike getting a replacement and it working I decided thats what I was going to do. So I called Tivo support back and told them that one of my S3s would only get to the Welcome. Powering On screen then flicker and power off. I also advised them that the Welcome. Powering On screen was completely green and not the usual orange and black. They immediately gave me an Exchange number. Then I told them that my other S3 would not even power on. We trouble shooted of course plugging in different power cords different outlets etc but to no avail. They immediately gave me an Exchange number. Now I feel bad about this but from my previous conversation with Tivo Support they were not willing to exchange these S3's but only the remotes. And these are brand new. 
So I will let you know when I receive my replacement if they come with better IR sensors. I have a feeling it wont.

Best


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## ronfl

Oh my god. Your solution with the "onion" paper worked perfectly! I tried covering the top with cardboard overhanging the front about an inch, but that didnt' work. Moved the box behind the screen plane, that didn't work. Drooping the paper compeletly over the front works, your a genious! Of course now I can't see what time it is or what is recording. I'm surprised the TiVo IR goes through the paper but it does.

I wonder how we find out if they change the internal IR hardware and how long they will let us go before being able to exchange it?


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## eisenb11

Hopefully, less than a month. This is a pretty big issue with Tivo for obvious reasons.

Guess we'll have to use these ugly-as-sin workarounds until Tivo gets the issue resolved...


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## MichaelK

I'm pretty shocked none of the beta testers noticed this. You would think at least some of them would have had plasma's or Aquos LCD's....

And if you search the net- plasma's screwing up remotes is a fairly common thing.


I think Directv went with RF on their new HD DVR remote. Being a monday morning quarterback, that might have been wise...


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## eisenb11

The problem with RF is that it's a huge pain in the butt to deal with where home automation and learning remotes come in.

Tivo should have just made an IR remote that didn't have these issues! 

You're correct in that you'd think some of the beta testers would have a plasma. Guess Tivo didn't choose a good pool to represent all apsects of user equipment. I do recall that none of the beta reviews I had read online were by plasma owners.

I wonder how Tivo is going to fix the problem? They *have* to fix this problem... it's too annoying!

Any kind of fix they do is going to cost them as you're going to either have to exchange the remote or the S3 or both.

The CSRs mentioned a possible firmware fix to change the IR codes used. This is fine and dandy, but how will these new IR codes get to the remotes?

The cheapest fix I can think of is going to involve a remote exchange at the least...


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## Innerloop

Weird - I fully expected to have this same problem as I am using a Samsung 42" Plasma and the S3 is mounted directly below and several inches in front of the Plasma screen. Its no more than 1.5 feet below. 

Yet it works great - no issues noticed. Is it only certain BRAND Plasmas that have this interference problem? 

Does using a Universal remote instead like the Harmony help at all? 

Very strange. I am glad not to have the problem, but confused as to why I don't.


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## eisenb11

Guess you're lucky. No it's not the only brand... just a popular one.

I have a Marantz PD5040D and I'm experiencing this problem.


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## lightrunner

I have come up with a better alternative to the 'onion paper' hood. It just wasn't aesthetically pleasing. I figured the IR sensor had to be right behind the face plate as with most A/V components. So I decided to take my S3 apart and see if I could shield it some how without completely blocking it. Taking apart the S3 was very easy and the inside was very easy to work in. Removing the face plate was just as easy. Two screws at each upper corner, unplug the white ribbon cable from the main board than push back the three clips at the top holding the face plate to the main chassis and the face plate is off. There are 8 screws holding a green circuitry board on the back of the face plate. Once removed you will see the IR sensor on the other side of the circuitry board. It looks like a small black bulb that sits on a stand. You will also see a small square hole on the back of the face plate where the IR sensor extends into. I had to improvise since I could not use a piece of paper to sit flush across the hole which would block the IR sensor from extending through it. So I used GLAD Press and Seal by taking six 1.5 inch x 2 inch strips and covering the hole and creating a little dimple for the IR sensor. I put everything back to together and turned the S3 back on and viola it works perfectly and you CAN'T EVEN SEE IT. You might have to use more strips depending on how bright your plasma is or how much interference it produces. You could also use strips of those plastic grocery bags as long as there not clear but I didn't want to deal with tape. Here are the quick steps.

1. Unscrew the torque screws from the back of the Tivo S3 then remove the black cover of the S3
2. Unplug the white ribbon cable connecting the Face Plate to the main board. REMOVE FROM THE MAIN BOARD it just pulls right out of the connector. Just make sure you are pulling on it gently. 
3. Unscrew the two torque silver screws at the top of each right and left corners that fastens the face plate to the main chassis.
4. Gently lift up on the three black clips on top of the S3 holding the face plate to the main chassis. You will need to feel around for it but there's one in the center and two towards the left of the S3 if you are facing it. Just run your fingers along the top lip of the opening and you will feel it. 
5. Gently pull apart the Face Plate while threading the white ribbon cable back through the slit on the chassis. Then unscrew the eight silver screws holding the circuitry board to the back of the Face Plate. Then GENTLY lift up on the green circuitry board. There are loose items underneath. They are easy to put back but just incase you don't want the hassle of searching and retrieving them off the floor.
6. Find the small square hole on the left close to where the input buttons are. Take 6 to 8 (depending on your plasma) 1.5 inches x 2.0 inches of GLAD Press and Seal fix them across the hole making sure to create a small dimple in the hole for the IR Sensor. I just pushed my pinky finger where the small hole was to create the dimple. 
7. Gently place the green circuitry board back and screw it down to the back of the Face Plate.
8. Thread the white ribbon cable back through the small slit in the front of the main chassis and reattach the Face Plate to the main chassis. Clip the bottom of the Face Plate to the chassis first and the rest will snap right in with a firm push.
9. Screw the two torque screws back on for the Face plate then Insert the blue end of the white ribbon cable back in the black connector on the main board.
10. Screw the black hood back on.

Now your ready to connect your S3 back to your plasma or lcd and test the remote.

You know tivo could have a quick fix buy retrofitting a plastic hood that fits into the IR sensor hole. They could send it out to the less unfortunates like us to self install.

Here are some pictures of what I did. Just copy and paste the link in your URL address bar and hit enter.

http://public.fotki.com/lightrunner/tivo_remote_fix/

updated: sorry i had to post 5 times before i could add a url link.


----------



## ronfl

I also have a Samsung (63") and URC 200/Osirus which has great IR strength but still won't overcome the IR issues with the S3.

My thought is that it's more hardware issue than software/firmware updates to fix. The reason I think that is the IR codes/signals are the same commands that operate my S2 and S3. I also must echo that I find it very short sided to set up beta testers without plasma screens, especially with the number of HD users having plasma.


----------



## lightrunner

Yeah I can't believe the beta testers didn't run into this. Or maybe they did and Tivo Support just advised them to use a hood so they could stay on target with the Tivo S3 release date. 
I suggest every body on this post to contact engadget, slashdot, gizmodo etc... the more there is media attention the more likely Tivo will come up with a solution. In the mean time the fix that I mentioned by covering the IR sensor hole behind the faceplate is working great. And you dont even see it or notice it even when looking closely where the IR sensor is. And really after opening the S3 it only took 20 minutes to do. So if your like me and you don't want anything covering your S3 and you want it as it came out of the box (externall that is) than this is a good solution until they come out with a fix. I checked to make sure there was no extreme heat dissapation that would effect the GLAD PressSeal and there is almost no heat in the back of the Face Plate. Hope this works for you guys.
Take a look at the pictures the link in my previous post which show what I did. Just incase here is the link again.

http://public.fotki.com/lightrunner/tivo_remote_fix/


----------



## MichaelK

Innerloop said:


> Weird - I fully expected to have this same problem as I am using a Samsung 42" Plasma and the S3 is mounted directly below and several inches in front of the Plasma screen. Its no more than 1.5 feet below.
> 
> Yet it works great - no issues noticed. Is it only certain BRAND Plasmas that have this interference problem?
> 
> Does using a Universal remote instead like the Harmony help at all?
> 
> Very strange. I am glad not to have the problem, but confused as to why I don't.


apparently differnt brands of TV's behave differently- yes.


----------



## bocktar

ronfl said:


> I also must echo that I find it very short sided to set up beta testers without plasma screens, especially with the number of HD users having plasma.


ECHO. Especially given the fact that knowledge about IR issues with plasmas has been available for years. It should be a basic test for any CE company nowadays.

That said, my plasma causes no problems, so it's possible they DID test with plasmas, but not with plasmas that actually generate the undesired effect.


----------



## ronfl

Lightrunner,

So is your "fix" with the clear wrap intended to just gently push back the RF diode behind the front plane of the panel or to give a more translucent cover over the diode to block random IR signals?


----------



## lightrunner

ronfl,
The second. To give a more translucent cover over the diode to block random IR signals. I tried using that onion paper but this just covered up the IR hole. The IR Sensor has to fit through this hole so I had to use something flexible that would allow a small dimple so the IR sensor (diode) could fit into it and give the same shielding effects as the onion paper did when used as a full hood. Just make sure you are using something translucent and NOT CLEAR like saran wrap or something. It should be somewhat like the onion paper.


----------



## micro98

I have mine on a stand under my tv i was about 17ft away and able to control it with a blanket over the remote. "completely covered"


----------



## Innerloop

On my setup, one POSSIBLE reason it might work better is that I have another similar-sized component sitting directly on top of the S3 Tivo, the Samsung BluRay player. Perhaps just having another 3" tall component directly above the IR sensor with the screen a few inches further back is enough to shadow the IR sensor? 

Or perhaps the smaller 42" Plasma are less of an issue, or the Samsungs are not causing the same level of interference.


----------



## MichaelK

lightrunner said:


> I have come up with a better alternative to the 'onion paper' hood. It just wasn't aesthetically pleasing. I figured the IR sensor had to be right behind the face plate as with most A/V components. So I decided to take my S3 apart and see if I could shield it some how without completely blocking it. Taking apart the S3 was very easy and the inside was very easy to work in. Removing the face plate was just as easy. Two screws at each upper corner, unplug the white ribbon cable from the main board than push back the three clips at the top holding the face plate to the main chassis and the face plate is off. There are 8 screws holding a green circuitry board on the back of the face plate. Once removed you will see the IR sensor on the other side of the circuitry board. It looks like a small black bulb that sits on a stand. You will also see a small square hole on the back of the face plate where the IR sensor extends into. I had to improvise since I could not use a piece of paper to sit flush across the hole which would block the IR sensor from extending through it. So I used GLAD Press and Seal by taking six 1.5 inch x 2 inch strips and covering the hole and creating a little dimple for the IR sensor. I put everything back to together and turned the S3 back on and viola it works perfectly and you CAN'T EVEN SEE IT. You might have to use more strips depending on how bright your plasma is or how much interference it produces. You could also use strips of those plastic grocery bags as long as there not clear but I didn't want to deal with tape. Here are the quick steps.
> 
> 1. Unscrew the torque screws from the back of the Tivo S3 then remove the black cover of the S3
> 2. Unplug the white ribbon cable connecting the Face Plate to the main board. REMOVE FROM THE MAIN BOARD it just pulls right out of the connector. Just make sure you are pulling on it gently. Thread the ribbon back through the slit on the chassis when you remove the Face Plate.
> 3. Unscrew the two torque silver screws at the top of each right and left corners that fastens the face plate to the main chassis.
> 4. Gently lift up on the three black clips on top of the S3 holding the face plate to the main chassis. You will need to feel around for it but there's one in the center and two towards the left of the S3 if you are facing it. Just run your fingers along the top lip of the opening and you will feel it.
> 5. Once you have pulled apart the Face Plate unscrew the eight silver screws holding the circuitry board to the back of the Face Plate. Then GENTLY lift up on the green circuitry board. There are loose items underneath. They are easy to put back but just incase you don't want the hassle of searching and retrieving them off the floor.
> 6. Find the small square hole on the left close to where the input buttons are. Take 6 to 8 (depending on your plasma) 1.5 inches x 2.0 inches of GLAD Press and Seal fix them across the hole making sure to create a small dimple in the hole for the IR Sensor. I just pushed my pinky finger where the small hole was to create the dimple.
> 7. Gently place the green circuitry board back and screw it down to the back of the Face Plate.
> 8. Thread the white ribbon cable back through the small slit in the front of the main chassis and reattach the Face Plate to the main chassis. Clip the bottom of the Face Plate to the chassis first and the rest will snap right in with a firm push.
> 9. Screw the two torque screws back on for the Face plate then Insert the blue end of the white ribbon cable back in the black connector on the main board.
> 10. Screw the black hood back on.
> 
> Now your ready to connect your S3 back to your plasma or lcd and test the remote.
> 
> You know tivo could have a quick fix buy retrofitting a plastic hood that fits into the IR sensor hole. They could send it out to the less unfortunates like us to self install.
> 
> Here are some pictures of what I did. Just copy and paste the link in your URL address bar and hit enter.
> 
> http://public.fotki.com/lightrunner/tivo_remote_fix/
> 
> updated: sorry i had to post 5 times before i could add a url link.


_*BIG FAT WARNING*_

sounds like a great solution- but anyone trying it should be supper carefull to plug the white ribbon cable back in all the way.

On some older model tivo's if the ribbon cable wasn't seated proberly when the unit was powered up it burned something out and the unit would get screwed.

Might not be a probelm with the S3 but I'd hate to be the guy to confrim that it is still a problem.

here's the post about the older S2's
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=105719



weaknees said:


> Hi--
> 
> (If you have already upgraded your HDVR2 or Series2 TiVo, this does not apply to you. Also, although we have referenced a potential power issue with the 230040, 240040 and 240080, this is NOT what we are writing about here.)
> 
> We don't mean to alarm anyone, but we have encountered a problem that can potentially cause permanent damage to your TiVo. This problem is easily avoided, and will only occur if you are not careful when upgrading your HDVR2 or Series2 TiVo.
> 
> The issue we raise below definitely applies to the HDVR2 and we have suspected this problem with the new-architecture Series2 standalone TiVos (230040, 240040 and 240080) as well.
> 
> Overview: When looking inside your TiVo, you will notice a white ribbon cable running from the front panel of the TiVo to the motherboard. It is a white ribbon cable that plugs directly into the motherboard.
> 
> Here's the WARNING: NEVER power-up your TiVo with this cable either slightly or completely removed from the motherboard. It must be firmly seated when you power up the TiVo.
> 
> Here's the reason: Doing so can permanently damage your TiVo. In some cases, the TiVo will power up but will not respond to the remote. In other cases, the TiVo will not power up at all (and will just click). With the HDVR2 and, potentially, the other Series2 TiVos, even if you later plug this cable back in, your TiVo still may not respond to your remote.
> 
> Therefore, when removing the power cable and IDE cable from your TiVo's factory hard drive, be VERY careful of this cable. Do not dislodge it. If you do dislodge it, just re-insert the cable before powering up.
> 
> We have been including a warning in our HDVR2 upgrade instructions and TwinBreeze bracket instructions, but thought that a bit of UPPER CASE might also help save a TiVo or two.
> 
> Good luck with your upgrade... and sorry for the alamist title.
> 
> Michael


----------



## lightrunner

good note MichaelK since there were no pins or zif type clips, I had to make sure that the white ribbon cable was firmly inserted. Also I don't know how this would affect warranty but this procedure did not break any seals and if your careful with the torque screws you can't even tell the box was ever opened. 
On another note maybe some of those people not having the same issue got their S3's from a different plant where they use slightly different fabrication methods. Or maybe the sensors are from different manufacturers or the green circuit board that it is attached to.


----------



## raober

Innerloop said:


> On my setup, one POSSIBLE reason it might work better is that I have another similar-sized component sitting directly on top of the S3 Tivo, the Samsung BluRay player. Perhaps just having another 3" tall component directly above the IR sensor with the screen a few inches further back is enough to shadow the IR sensor?
> 
> Or perhaps the smaller 42" Plasma are less of an issue, or the Samsungs are not causing the same level of interference.


I have a 43" Pioneer plasma (PDP4340HD I think is the model) bolted on top of a 1-1 1/2" thick piece of wood on my stand, with the S3 underneath. I am having no remote issues whatsoever. So, smaller plasmas may not be as much of an issue, perhaps.


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## MichaelK

i think brand name and model is the relevent thing- I have just a 37 inch lcd and that's enough to screw things up.


----------



## MichaelK

MichaelK said:


> _*BIG FAT WARNING*_
> 
> sounds like a great solution- but anyone trying it should be supper carefull to plug the white ribbon cable back in all the way.
> 
> On some older model tivo's if the ribbon cable wasn't seated proberly when the unit was powered up it burned something out and the unit would get screwed.
> 
> Might not be a probelm with the S3 but I'd hate to be the guy to confrim that it is still a problem.
> 
> here's the post about the older S2's
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=105719


this post:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4412654&&#post4412654

seems to indicate it's not an issue anymore, but i still wouldn't like to find out the hard way.

BAsically OP said unit got stuck at boot so he took it apart and plugged the cable back in and all was well.


----------



## zalusky

I havent hooked yet but all my equipment is in a cabinet and I use an IR distribution purchased ffrom a company like hometech.com.

I then make sure each led transmitter is attached to my various units DVD, Receiver, Tivo, VCR(???) and convered with black tape to prevent multiple IRs signal from coming in. I then connect the IR receiver to the side of the plasma. I then aim only at one spot and do not IR reflection causing multiple IR reflection signals from walls whatever hitting the sensors.


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## eisenb11

Hmm, looks like I may need to pick up some baggies next time I go shopping...


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## sfjase

We have a Panasonic 50" plasma, and had the same remote control problem with the Series 3 box we received from TiVo. Returned that one, and bought another box at a local store, but it had the same problem.

BUT, after letting TiVo go through its setup (using the buttons on the front panel) and connecting to the service (using the phone line, because the network connection won't work - but that's another story!), the problem eventually went away! Well, not completely, but the remote control is probably 90%+ usable now.

I don't know if the box downloaded a software fix or not, but the main point is that there is hope -- your TiVo may fix itself if you complete the setup and let it get the initial downloads. Good luck!


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## ronfl

Instead of opening the box (hoping TiVo has a fix soon), I cut a 1x1 inch square from the vellum (onion paper) that was on top of the box, and taped it over the IR sensor (just to the left of the controls). If you take a flash light up to the front you can see the round opening in the plastice.

At least this looks better than draping the whole sheet across and I can see the clock and whats recording. Still a littlle ghetto looking considering we paid $1000 if you include the lifetime transfer.


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## bsalles

Lightrunner is a genius! I did the 6 strip fix and it works 100% perfect! 

I was using the RF Blaster that Weaknees sells with a custom transmitter that covered the entire TiVo IR receiver area but it was only about 98% responsive. Now with the Glad 6 Strip Fix it works 100% with no blaster.

I have a 50" Panasonic Plasma and the S3 is located below it under a shelf. The only concern I have is that TiVo will release a software update that will reduce the sensitivity of the IR receiver and I will need to take it apart again to remove the Glad 6 Strip Fix.

As a side note one of the CC eject buttons is broken and when I had the box opened I found a small piece of metal that resembles a staple floating around inside. It came from the broken eject button. I have read that alot of people also have the broken button. You should all make sure that the staple looking thing is not floating around inside your S3 because there is no doubt that it will short something out!


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## RichB

I have the problem with my Panasonic 657UY Plasma.
The S2 right above it works much better.

Is the consensus that this is a design problem and not a manufacturing problem with some units?

I guess I have to call TiVo tomorrow.

- Rich


----------



## the0rus

OH MAN! lightrunners Glad seal worked! I was doubtful at first but it really works. It took me a little whiel to get around the box and had to reread teh directions a few times but once it was done I installed it back in entertainment unit and now its working 100%. and he's right you cant see it one bit not if you shine a liight up it. saves me the hassel on taking this back to bbuy. Tivo has my email they will follow up with a fix if there ever is one I hope. Your a GENIUS lightrunner! crazy what people come up with absolutely brilliant.


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## shootedit5

Are you fing serious? I just bought my plasma LG 50PY2DR to go with my new tivo. Now I am running into the same problem. Are you FING serious. %[email protected]%@% ^$#&%$&* %&*$*%$&%^@#@(*^&
Found this post after scouring the web for help. Now I have to run to the store for some fing Glad Press Seal? this is insane! And I dont want to cover my Tivo either. I even bought a salamander rack for my av stuff where the tivo sits right on top. Moved the thing every where and still it doesnt work. GREAT!


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## slocko

i agree. lightrunner has found a brilliant solution to the problem. bravo!


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## RichB

Not only do I get many dropouts, I also get many repeated buttons. This is just as bad. I cannot type in channel numbers.

I cannot tell you how frustrating it to try to program my season passes.

We need TiVo to pay attention to this problem.

I wish I knew if a replacement would fix it.

- Rich


----------



## shootedit5

Unbelievable! so after sitting around the house with tivo remote in hand and praying that some how the remote will miraculously start working, at around 11pm I decided to try the lighhtrunner method. I was pretty ticked by this time and after waiting on hold for 45 minutes with Tivo support i was fuming. *&*(^ they really need better more support people or maybe this is an epidemic and slamming the call centers. dont know and dont care i just want my $800 tivo sitting on my $700 rack working with my $3000 plasma. I drove to the store since I didnt have any press seal laying around (dont cook much) then cracked open the S3 did the 6 strips (did 4 first but was still noticing some skips) and WHAM it works like a bute now. THANK YOU lightrunner. I am still angry about this whole thing but I feel much better now that my tivo looks and works as it should. Truly genious fix.

RichB did you try the lightrunner method yet? Im tellin ya it works and works great.

Like light runner said we need to email the media about this. Tivo wont pay attention unless their is some publicity.

And thanks LightRunner your a gentleman and a scholar


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## RichB

shootedit5 said:


> RichB did you try the lightrunner method yet? Im tellin ya it works and works great.


No and I am hesitant to do so. I think it is nice that he is doing this, but shouldn't TiVo ship and S3 that works with Plasma TVs. There from at least one user that a replacement user works fine in the same location.

I am waiting to see what TiVo has to say about this. I would hate to void my warranty by doing this. Also, I have postponed my hard disk upgrade until this gets resolved.

- Rich


----------



## the0rus

RichB said:


> No and I am hesitant to do so. I think it is nice that he is doing this, but shouldn't TiVo ship and S3 that works with Plasma TVs. There from at least one user that a replacement user works fine in the same location.
> 
> I am waiting to see what TiVo has to say about this. I would hate to void my warranty by doing this. Also, I have postponed my hard disk upgrade until this gets resolved.
> 
> - Rich


I doubt the warranty will be nil and void after this. You cant even tell the box was ever opened other than the glad press and seal but what idiot would send it back with the press and seal in it if it had to get serviced. There are no seals like the old boxes use to have with warnings. But if what your saying is true about the warranty then when you open the box for the drive upgrade wouldnt that void the warranty as well? And tivo is stating different things some users are stating that tivo is admitting this to be a problem but you know what when I called them they said they were not aware of it and it wasnt posted in any of their help desk database. And you know there not gonna do a recall because i dont think this is just some firmware update i dont know of any software that can control the IR sensitivity or change the banding on an IR receiver. If tivo is telling people to move their other remotes out of the room or in a drawer then there fix is going to be to use a hood! And that OP who got the replacement didnt put it in the same place if you read carefully he put it on top of the S3 having the problem. The few inches could have made the difference and he hasnt posted since to give us an update.


----------



## RichB

the0rus said:


> i dont think this is just some firmware update i dont know of any software that can control the IR sensitivity or change the banding on an IR receiver. If tivo is telling people to move their other remotes out of the room or in a drawer then there fix is going to be to use a hood!


I am not following your reasoning here. If the fix requires a hardware fix, they why should there not be a way to get it serviced? Simply because they do not want to or because it would cost too much?

- Rich


----------



## Leigh7757

I had this same problem with plasma tv interfering with my new S3 remote. I fixed it last night by repositioning where the TiVo was in my entertainment center. I can't guarantee this will work for everyone, but I can't be the only one who has multiple media devices near my tv. 

My TiVo used to sit on the top shelf of the entertainment center on top of my dvd player. The only thing between the tv and the TiVo was a solid pine surface about an inch thick. While this wasn't a problem with my Series 2, my Series 3 was having some serious remote response problems. 

Last night I moved the TiVo down to the middle shelf and repositioned some other electronics and now the remote is working perfectly. There are now two ~1 inch thick pieces of wood, a vcr, and a dvd player between my tv and my TiVo, which is now sitting on top of an A/V switch. Additionally, the TiVo is probably 8-10 inches lower than it sat previously. 

I realize it's probably a hardware problem I could get fixed, but for the time being I'm not looking to ship my TiVo back for an indefinite amount of time with my lifetime service in limbo. I will most likely contact customer service about it anyway, since for an HD device using a plasma tv is hardly unreasonable.


----------



## the0rus

RichB said:


> I am not following your reasoning here. If the fix requires a hardware fix, they why should there not be a way to get it serviced? Simply because they do not want to or because it would cost too much?
> 
> - Rich


1st tivo doesnt seem to be aware of this problem. I spoke with 3 support reps including 2 second level engineers. They all stated that it wasnt an issue that they were aware of. Usually there are postings on their internal boards but they said there were none and none of them have answered this type of an issue. After I told them about everything that I have done as well as telling them about this thread they said it was most likely a remote control problem so they sent me a new one. Didnt work of course. When I called back they advised that I need to just use a hood. and that was all they can do. 
2nd yes it would cost too much. look how long it took for apple, dell etc to recall their laptop batteries and this is life threatening. do you think tivo would honestly do a recall on an IR issue that can be simply fixed with a hood or repositioning the s3 and the fact that not all of their customers including certain plasma and lcd owners are experiencing this issue. In fact they will most likely blame the manufacturer of the plasma or lcd causing the interference cuz technicall it is.
3rd relative to the huge amount of tivo s3's sold and the amount of people posting on this thread there probably isn't that much people (ratio wise) having this issue RELATIVE that is. granted that we know of.

it is possible that certain users got a tivo s3 that was manufactured at a different plant or have IR sensors that were different in some way maybe thats why certain plasma and lcd owners are not having this issue.


----------



## l_emmerdeur

I set up my S3 just to make sure it works prior to the Cablecard install in 2 weeks.

I set it up on a shelf near my PC monitor (hooking it up to my Dell monitor as my new 50" plasma arrives on Saturday), and the Tivo's face was about a foot from a bright floor lamp.

Now, mind you, the new Tivo remote has actually improved the responsiveness of my old S2 (I should have gotten a replacement remote a long time ago), so I know the remote can work miracles in and of itself. But with the lamp on, I had to hold the remote almost directly in front of the S3 to get it to respond reliably. Turning off the lamp made this problem go away - in fact, the S3 accepted remote presses from very acute angles, something my S2 could never do.

So blocking any glare from harsh light or a plasma/LCD is necessary for the S3.


----------



## the0rus

l_emmerdeur said:


> I set up my S3 just to make sure it works prior to the Cablecard install in 2 weeks.
> 
> I set it up on a shelf near my PC monitor (hooking it up to my Dell monitor as my new 50" plasma arrives on Saturday), and the Tivo's face was about a foot from a bright floor lamp.
> 
> Now, mind you, the new Tivo remote has actually improved the responsiveness of my old S2 (I should have gotten a replacement remote a long time ago), so I know the remote can work miracles in and of itself. But with the lamp on, I had to hold the remote almost directly in front of the S3 to get it to respond reliably. Turning off the lamp made this problem go away - in fact, the S3 accepted remote presses from very acute angles, something my S2 could never do.
> 
> So blocking any glare from harsh light or a plasma/LCD is necessary for the S3.


what type of plasma did you order? please keep us posted. i'd be curious to see if you have the same remote control issue that we are having. thanks


----------



## slocko

Yes, I do expect Tivo to come up with a solution to this problem. When you charge $800 for a device, there is a certain level of customer service that is expected. An ugly hood is not option.

As we can see, lightrunner came up with an inexpensive solution. Tivo can afford to have the affected customers send their unit in for repair if a hardware mod is the only option.



the0rus said:


> do you think tivo would honestly do a recall on an IR issue that can be simply fixed with a hood or repositioning the s3 and the fact that not all of their customers including certain plasma and lcd owners are experiencing this issue.


----------



## RichB

the0rus said:


> 1st tivo doesnt seem to be aware of this problem. I spoke with 3 support reps including 2 second level engineers. They all stated that it wasnt an issue that they were aware of.


That's funny. They typed the information into a case when I called. I wonder how many people have to call before they become "aware" of it. 



> it is possible that certain users got a tivo s3 that was manufactured at a different plant or have IR sensors that were different in some way maybe thats why certain plasma and lcd owners are not having this issue.


Well that may be, there is case with my name on it now.

- Rich


----------



## Stormspace

slocko said:


> Yes, I do expect Tivo to come up with a solution to this problem. When you charge $800 for a device, there is a certain level of customer service that is expected. An ugly hood is not option.
> 
> As we can see, lightspeed came up with an inexpensive solution. Tivo can afford to have the affected customers send their unit in for repair if a hardware mod is the only option.


You have to remember as well that they talked up the attractiveness of the unit in your entertainment system. If it is a real issue with certain plasma's they need to address it somehow, even if it's to offer a full refund to those people that bought an incompatible Plasma TV. I guess you should have looked at the hardware compatibility guide before making such a large purchase. Oh there isn't one? Sorry.


----------



## QVo

http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/26/tivo-series3-plasma-tv-big-problems/


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## RichB

I have a case number from Tech support. Someone will call me in the next few hours. We wen through the find programs and I attempted to type 1234 four times. I never got a clear set of number and I get at least to repeated digits.
Seems to be better in the daytime though.

Perhaps with Engadget TiVo will start to officially "heard of it".
After all, it takes a while for every tech support person to get one call about this issue.  

- Rich


----------



## the0rus

Finally some damn media. I wonder if engadget have multiple sources or just using this thread. If they do it would be nice to know who else is having this issue. 
Congrats lightrunner but sorry they got your name wrong. Oh well i guess some guy named lightspeed will get the credit. 
Just an update my Series3 with the official "lightrunner method" is working liking a charm. Props bro mad props


----------



## reunis

Hey folks, I'm new to this post but thank gawd I found it. I started having this issue the Monday after the release week. I didn't know what to do. It got to the point that I stopped using the Series3 completely and when the cable guy came to install the CableCards and take away my Scientific Atlanta 8300HD I reluctantly decided to keep 8300HD. I was back to using the 8300HD all over again. Then last night I ran into this thread and tried the Glad Press and Seal which is a great product by the way. I've found uses for it many times. 
I'm not very technical but this was a piece of cake. Lightrunners directions were to the T and the pictures of the work were great. Now the remote is working exactly as it should almost better actually but I wouldn't know since it wasn't working before so I can't compare. Today I called Cablevision to take my Explorer 8300HD back only to find out that I have to drop it off at one of their store fronts. I guess they don't do house calls for that. Great fix lightrunner. Quite clever. 
I called Tivo support about this as well. They also sent me a remote replacement. When that arrived and it didn't work I called them back the engineer I spoke with was aware of the problem. He said that I was his second call to report this. In fact he asked me first if I had a Plasma or an LCD. I am sure they will come out with a fix maybe similar to the Glad Press and Seal but a little bit more professional.


----------



## Stormspace

reunis said:


> I am sure they will come out with a fix maybe similar to the Glad Press and Seal but a little bit more professional.


I don't know. It's going to cost them a pretty penny to recall those devices. I wonder if it'll be a snap-on IR hood to make that sleek exterior look even better.


----------



## wookl

PVRblog picked this up as well. Publicity is starting to roll. Hope tivo is listening. Keep emailing the media.


----------



## eisenb11

The engineers are very aware of this problem.

I called in and told him I thought I had a bad remote. The first question he asked me was "Do you own a plasma TV?".

I then turned the TV off and the remote was working like a champ (at least as far as the light on the front of the S3 goes... no idea what it was doing with the screen off).

If they didn't know about the problem before, it seems they definately new about it a couple of days ago.

They said they had engineers working on trying to find a fix for the issue.


----------



## wookl

PVRWire picked up the story as well and have a nice shot of the fix. keep up the media. TIVO WE ARE KNOCKING ON YOUR DOOR!


----------



## lightrunner

Thats GREAT! I am very pleased to hear that this is working for you guys as well. I saw the story at engadget. This is such good news. I am sure Tivo is listening and soon (hopefully) they will have a fix. I do hope its a firmware upgrade that can maybe narrow the band of the IR frequency. I would hate to take everything apart and send it back to them. After this fix I decided to cancel my returns but having second thoughts due to the fact maybe it is a manufacturing issue or fabrication methods of the IR sensor. Also good to see Engadget gave us the credit. You gotta love forums.
Keep me posted guys as too how this is working out for you. GOOD LUCK.


----------



## wookl

The Glad Press n Seal solution.

http://www.lostremote.com/2006/09/26/tivo-series-3-units-confounded-by-plasmas/


----------



## RichB

lightrunner said:


> Thats GREAT! I am very pleased to hear that this is working for you guys as well. I saw the story at engadget. This is such good news. I am sure Tivo is listening and soon (hopefully) they will have a fix. I do hope its a firmware upgrade that can maybe narrow the band of the IR frequency. I would hate to take everything apart and send it back to them. After this fix I decided to cancel my returns but having second thoughts due to the fact maybe it is a manufacturing issue or fabrication methods of the IR sensor. Also good to see Engadget gave us the credit. You gotta love forums.
> Keep me posted guys as too how this is working out for you. GOOD LUCK.


Woud it be a good plan to first try the press and seal on the outside to see how many pieces you need?

Also, did you tape them in place inside the unit?

I will wait until I get the call from TiVo on my case before I try this, but it is good to know there is a work around. Nicely done.

- Rich


----------



## lightrunner

RichB said:


> Woud it be a good plan to first try the press and seal on the outside to see how many pieces you need?
> 
> Also, did you tape them in place inside the unit?
> 
> I will wait until I get the call from TiVo on my case before I try this, but it is good to know there is a work around. Nicely done.
> 
> - Rich


Great idea to try the press n seal outside first. This way you dont have to play the guessing game and open up the box again to adjust. 
No I didn't use any tape. I didn't want there to be any sticky residue (that sometimes adhesive tape can leave) on the back of the Face Plate. The Glad Press 'n Seal is perfect since its slightly sticky and adheres to just about any surface without leaving any residue which is probably a good thing since this is made to store food. 
Keep me posted with your Tivo results. Best


----------



## MichaelK

Stormspace said:


> I don't know. It's going to cost them a pretty penny to recall those devices. I wonder if it'll be a snap-on IR hood to make that sleek exterior look even better.


I orgiinally was thinking this was a big deal and would require new IR recievers to be installed- what a mess.

But since the glad press and seal works- I'm thinking they can just change the front bezel and add some IR filtering to the plastic.

Still not user friendly since it requires digging into the box and undoing connections- but they can hopefully make a hardware revision some point in the future...


----------



## l_emmerdeur

the0rus said:


> what type of plasma did you order? please keep us posted. i'd be curious to see if you have the same remote control issue that we are having. thanks


Panasonic TH-50PX600U. I will post my results with the remote as soon as I get it this weekend.


----------



## RichB

I tried Press N Seal Freezer on the outside just to see how many I needed. 4 Strips seems to work.

So you may need less. It may also keep you TiVo fresh 

- Rich


----------



## MichaelK

i would *GUESS* the amount of press and seal layers depends on how much IR any one particular set is giving off.


----------



## HiDefGator

Since Tivo is claiming they are the "Lexus" of DVR's, I expect them to not only fix the problem but pay all shipping costs for replacement units. What it costs them to do it is not my concern.


----------



## MichaelK

HiDefGator said:


> Since Tivo is claiming they are the "Lexus" of DVR's, I expect them to not only fix the problem but pay all shipping costs for replacement units. What it costs them to do it is not my concern.


dont hold your breath.


----------



## eisenb11

HiDefGator said:


> Since Tivo is claiming they are the "Lexus" of DVR's, I expect them to not only fix the problem but pay all shipping costs for replacement units. What it costs them to do it is not my concern.


Let's see them fix the problem first... then we'll worry about shipping costs


----------



## lightrunner

I am wondering, that the reason for such limited releases in the stores and online at tivo.com is that tivo is using early adopters as somewhat of Final Release testers much like software vendors do post beta. I spoke to a sales manager at my local Best Buy and he stated that they have only been seeing two to three of these new S3's a week if that. 
One of my co-workers had the 's3 remote with plasma' issue and requested a replacement from tivo. He had two options A) They can cross ship a replacement but he would have to put a deposit of the full price of a new Tivo. B) Tivo would wait for his S3 to hit their RMA department before they send him a replacement. He opted for A) and forked up the deposit. It has been nearly two weeks and I hear him on the phone all the time checking the status of his replacements. Tivo of course got his already and they refunded his deposit but they have not shipped his replacement as of yet. The Reason - they don't even have replacements in yet to ship. 
I am seeing some posts online and some are arguing that the interference is not Tivo's fault its the manufacturer of the display. Well then why does my DVD player not have this problem? Why does my DVR not have this problem? Why does my receiver not have this problem? AND YES THEY ARE ALL IR NOT RF. 
If Tivo doesn't fix this problem the IR support calls will only get worse when the stores start carrying a good stock of them.


----------



## andyf

lightrunner said:


> I am wondering, that the reason for such limited releases in the stores and online at tivo.com is that tivo is using early adopters as somewhat of Final Release testers much like software vendors do post beta. I spoke to a sales manager at my local Best Buy and he stated that they have only been seeing two to three of these new S3's a week if that.
> One of my co-workers had the 's3 remote with plasma' issue and requested a replacement from tivo. He had two options A) They can cross ship a replacement but he would have to put a deposit of the full price of a new Tivo. B) Tivo would wait for his S3 to hit their RMA department before they send him a replacement. He opted for A) and forked up the deposit. It has been nearly two weeks and I hear him on the phone all the time checking the status of his replacements. Tivo of course got his already and they refunded his deposit but they have not shipped his replacement as of yet. The Reason - they don't even have replacements in yet to ship.
> I am seeing some posts online and some are arguing that the interference is not Tivo's fault its the manufacturer of the display. Well then why does my DVD player not have this problem? Why does my DVR not have this problem? Why does my receiver not have this problem? AND YES THEY ARE ALL IR NOT RF.
> If Tivo doesn't fix this problem the IR support calls will only get worse when the stores start carrying a good stock of them.


I'm wondering if they're not waiting for refurbs to become available before shipping out exchange units. These are brand new and it may take some time before they get refurbs in to send out. Tivo does do refurbs for exchanges, right? Not new units.


----------



## ChuckyBox

HiDefGator said:


> Since Tivo is claiming they are the "Lexus" of DVR's [ ... ]


Where is TiVo making this claim?


----------



## RichB

ChuckyBox said:


> Where is TiVo making this claim?


What is your point, that we should not expect their remotes to work or that this is not a top of the line product 

- Rich


----------



## Innerloop

ChuckyBox said:


> Where is TiVo making this claim?


Every time they print the MSRP of $799.99


----------



## frankygamer

My remote works fine with my plasma. So the problem is obviously a combination of different factors. This isn't something that can be fixed overnight so return your unit or deal with it until Tivo has a fix.


----------



## ChuckyBox

RichB said:


> What is your point, that we should not expect their remotes to work or that this is not a top of the line product


I don't think I made a point, I just asked a question.

As for your remote problems, I'm sure you'll get them fixed, top-of-the-line product or not. It would be nice if you didn't have to ship your box back, though. Assuming it cant be fixed in software, maybe TiVo can work out a deal to have the techs at Best Buy and Circuit City do a warranty repair. That would be a lot less hassle for most people and you wouldn't have to start from scratch with your wish lists, season passes and thumb ratings.


----------



## ChuckyBox

Innerloop said:


> Every time they print the MSRP of $799.99


So when Diego ships its $1000 Moxi standalone box next year, that's going to be, what?, a Mercedes or something? 25% more expensive, but not as good -- I guess that's about right.

How much for the Rolls Royce of DVRs? Because that's what I want.


----------



## bocktar

ChuckyBox said:


> Where is TiVo making this claim?




They don't exactly. But...

"The finest, most civilized way to treat your HD home theatre system."

"Unrivaled Perfection"

"Unbelievably Liberating"

"No other DVR comes close."

"Supreme Handling with the New TiVo® Series3 Digital Media Recorder Remote"

Maybe each of those needs some fine print, like "mileage may vary", "do not attempt", and "on a closed course".



I'd prefer the Masserati of DVRs myself. (Or are they DMRs now? I'm confused).


----------



## RichB

I am still waiting on a callback from level 2 support. I am running out of time, only 3 days left before I have to activate. I am waiting to see if they offer a replacement unit, thereby avoiding my any issues with transferring my lifetime service.

I think this is frustrating me because other than the remote problem, I love the damn thing.

- Rich


----------



## bkdtv

I wonder how fast Tivo can fix this problem on their producton line to make the IR receiver more resistance to interference, without requiring the mods discussed in this thread.


----------



## Schmidt

I have a Sharp Aquos 37" and was considering ordering an S3, UNTIL I READ ABOUT ALL THE REMOTE IR PROBLEMS. $799 plus $200 lifetime plus the cost of a Speakercraft plasma proof IR repeater, when I barely have enough technical savvy to hook up an S3 without the blinkin' Speakercraft gizmo? I've got remote-response time lag problems driving me crazy with my Comcast/Motorola DCT 3412 already without paying $1000 plus for more of the same!


----------



## highvista

Schmidt said:


> I have a Sharp Aquos 37" and was considering ordering an S3, UNTIL I READ ABOUT ALL THE REMOTE IR PROBLEMS. $799 plus $200 lifetime plus the cost of a Speakercraft plasma proof IR repeater, when I barely have enough technical savvy to hook up an S3 without the blinkin' Speakercraft gizmo? I've got remote-response time lag problems driving me crazy with my Comcast/Motorola DCT 3412 already without paying $1000 plus for more of the same!


It is annoying to have to worry about this but, at least for me, it was easy to "patch" by taping a small square of a plastic grocery bag over the IR sensor (no onion paper handy in the house). Long-term, if Tivo doesn't fix this, I'll probably do the internal press-and-seal fix, but I'm not ready to crack the case just yet.


----------



## RKofCAL

I believe I too have experienced a similar problem to the one others are encountering. I have a Sharp AQUOS LC-45 LCD screen. My symptoms are a little different however (note, I've not performed any tests with the screen off). When I first got the box, the remote seemed completely unfunctional, and I performed setup using the keys on the box. I started noticing some reception to the remote after setup, and it slowly improved over time. After about an hour of intermittent response the reception improved to the point of 100% reception. It seemed almost as if the thing was waking up, and it stayed working great for the rest of the evening. 

The next evening, however, it was back to the 1-in-30 response. Once again, slowly over continued use, it improved and eventually returned to 100%. 

Last night, I received a software upgrade. I hoped this would fix the problem. Unfortunately, this morning it started as it did before, completely messed up and gradually improving with use. I called tech support, was put through the same song and dance as several have discussed, and they are sending a new remote. Oddly, they are "sure" the remote "will" fix the issue. 

My theory is they put some kind of last minute control in the box to address the issue which "trains" to the conditions in the room. When the LCD screen is off, perhaps the training entity slowly reverts to a bad spot. In any event, I will check tonight if the problem returns. If not, I'll assume the new software can maintain the setting. 

The key thing to note, the box seems to be able to combat the issue. My S3 box delivery was delayed over a week due to "shipping mix-ups" as TIVO put it, perhaps they were putting in something to combat the issue.


----------



## RKofCAL

Update: 

This evening the S3 box was back to being unresponsive to the remote with the LCD TV powered on. I powered off the display, and the S3 box was instantly responsive. 

As time went by, the box slowly gained the ability to receive from the remote. Perhaps the LCD monitor produces less interference as it warms up. 

I called TIVO with this information. They admit mine was not the first occurrence of this behavior, but they also state that replacing the remote was successful in one situation. Given that my old series2 remote also has the issue it seems unlikely. 

TIVO is shipping out a replacement unit. Has anyone had success with a replacement unit?


----------



## MichaelK

RKofCAL said:


> I believe I too have experienced a similar problem to the one others are encountering. I have a Sharp AQUOS LC-45 LCD screen. My symptoms are a little different however (note, I've not performed any tests with the screen off). When I first got the box, the remote seemed completely unfunctional, and I performed setup using the keys on the box. I started noticing some reception to the remote after setup, and it slowly improved over time. After about an hour of intermittent response the reception improved to the point of 100% reception. It seemed almost as if the thing was waking up, and it stayed working great for the rest of the evening.
> 
> The next evening, however, it was back to the 1-in-30 response. Once again, slowly over continued use, it improved and eventually returned to 100%.
> 
> Last night, I received a software upgrade. I hoped this would fix the problem. Unfortunately, this morning it started as it did before, completely messed up and gradually improving with use. I called tech support, was put through the same song and dance as several have discussed, and they are sending a new remote. Oddly, they are "sure" the remote "will" fix the issue.
> 
> My theory is they put some kind of last minute control in the box to address the issue which "trains" to the conditions in the room. When the LCD screen is off, perhaps the training entity slowly reverts to a bad spot. In any event, I will check tonight if the problem returns. If not, I'll assume the new software can maintain the setting.
> 
> The key thing to note, the box seems to be able to combat the issue. My S3 box delivery was delayed over a week due to "shipping mix-ups" as TIVO put it, perhaps they were putting in something to combat the issue.


\

so my posts above-

the aquos has a setting for the backlight were it senses the ambiant light and adjusts it's brightness accordingly. So at differnt times with differnt lighting conditions the aquos will output more or less IR interference.

Since it works sometimes- try to adjust the brightness setting manually to something lower. I think I have mine set a couple notches from the bottom to get it to work properly.


----------



## MichaelK

RKofCAL said:


> Update:
> 
> This evening the S3 box was back to being unresponsive to the remote with the LCD TV powered on. I powered off the display, and the S3 box was instantly responsive.
> 
> As time went by, the box slowly gained the ability to receive from the remote. Perhaps the LCD monitor produces less interference as it warms up.
> 
> I called TIVO with this information. They admit mine was not the first occurrence of this behavior, but they also state that replacing the remote was successful in one situation. Given that my old series2 remote also has the issue it seems unlikely.
> 
> TIVO is shipping out a replacement unit. Has anyone had success with a replacement unit?


replacement remote or replacement series3?


----------



## RKofCAL

Hi,

I tried adjusting the OCD brightness, for me it had little effect.


----------



## RKofCAL

MichaelK said:


> replacement remote or replacement series3?


Both. They immediately dispatched a remote. In my later call recognizing the relationship between monitor on/off and remote response not working/working they agreed to RMA the unit. Rather than send mine back for exchange, I'm "buying" a new unit and will be credited for the existing unit. When the remote arrives, I'll see if it improves the situation.


----------



## RKofCAL

MichaelK said:


> \
> 
> so my posts above-
> 
> the aquos has a setting for the backlight were it senses the ambiant light and adjusts it's brightness accordingly. So at differnt times with differnt lighting conditions the aquos will output more or less IR interference.
> 
> Since it works sometimes- try to adjust the brightness setting manually to something lower. I think I have mine set a couple notches from the bottom to get it to work properly.


By the way, the interference from the monitor is at it worst when the monitor is powered on after being off for some time. As it heats up the interference gradually reduces. This is my experience and it is very consistent. After about an hour the interference is low enough for the IR sensor to receive the remote signals fairly well (in my case).


----------



## bocktar

I had not had any S3 IR issues until last night when I was using my laptop in close proximity to it (approximately five feet away). It turns out that the S3 gets totally confused by whatever Windows XP is sending out the IR port every five seconds.

It had the practical effect of making response to the remote very sluggish, sometimes missing button presses -- sometimes catching up on five or six of them all at once.

No other device in my cabinet is affected like this.

Just a heads up in case you're sitting next to your TiVo while typing away on the forums and beating your head against the wall about the IR issues.


----------



## MichaelK

RKofCAL said:


> By the way, the interference from the monitor is at it worst when the monitor is powered on after being off for some time. As it heats up the interference gradually reduces. This is my experience and it is very consistent. After about an hour the interference is low enough for the IR sensor to receive the remote signals fairly well (in my case).


interesting- could be that as it heats up the bulb emits less IR I guess....


----------



## RKofCAL

bocktar said:


> I had not had any S3 IR issues until last night when I was using my laptop in close proximity to it (approximately five feet away). It turns out that the S3 gets totally confused by whatever Windows XP is sending out the IR port every five seconds.
> 
> It had the practical effect of making response to the remote very sluggish, sometimes missing button presses -- sometimes catching up on five or six of them all at once.
> 
> No other device in my cabinet is affected like this.
> 
> Just a heads up in case you're sitting next to your TiVo while typing away on the forums and beating your head against the wall about the IR issues.


I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that the backlight of your laptop is the source of the interference. This may be a nice way people can test whether their S3 is sensitive or not ... it would be a pity to buy a new Plasma/LCD television later in time only to have the S3 rendered useless, with no means of getting the box repaired post warranty exchange period.


----------



## MichaelK

RKofCAL said:


> I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that the backlight of your laptop is the source of the interference. This may be a nice way people can test whether their S3 is sensitive or not ... it would be a pity to buy a new Plasma/LCD television later in time only to have the S3 rendered useless, with no means of getting the box repaired post warranty exchange period.


I am under the impressiong that the brightness of the particular IR interferring source is the biggest variable not the reciever in the individual tuners. So while one laptop might set the thing off, another brand or model may not.

If people happen to have nightshot video cameras that might be a way to check. I can turn on the nightshot on my camcorder in the picth black, THen I can turn on my LCD to an empty source to get a "black" screen. And the whole room "lights up" for the IR sensing nightshot.


----------



## bocktar

RKofCAL said:


> I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that the backlight of your laptop is the source of the interference. This may be a nice way people can test whether their S3 is sensitive or not ... it would be a pity to buy a new Plasma/LCD television later in time only to have the S3 rendered useless, with no means of getting the box repaired post warranty exchange period.


Nah. It's definitely the IR port. If I cover it with my hand, the problem goes away.

Dell Inspiron D820.


----------



## andyf

RKofCAL said:


> Update:
> 
> This evening the S3 box was back to being unresponsive to the remote with the LCD TV powered on. I powered off the display, and the S3 box was instantly responsive.
> 
> As time went by, the box slowly gained the ability to receive from the remote. Perhaps the LCD monitor produces less interference as it warms up.
> 
> I called TIVO with this information. They admit mine was not the first occurrence of this behavior, but they also state that replacing the remote was successful in one situation. Given that my old series2 remote also has the issue it seems unlikely.
> 
> TIVO is shipping out a replacement unit. Has anyone had success with a replacement unit?


Better yet, has anyone who sent their unit in for an exchange received a replacement unit?


----------



## speacock

RKofCAL said:


> I believe I too have experienced a similar problem to the one others are encountering. I have a Sharp AQUOS LC-45 LCD screen.


I have the HP LC3200n TV and I'm getting a similar problem. One night it was 4.5 minutes until it was responsive, another night it took over an hour. I have two calls into Tivo but they don't seem to have an answer yet.

Sean


----------



## RKofCAL

bocktar said:


> Nah. It's definitely the IR port. If I cover it with my hand, the problem goes away.
> 
> Dell Inspiron D820.


I just tried placing my laptop right in front of the Tivo, it caused no noticeable interference.


----------



## skip-those-ads

highvista said:


> It is annoying to have to worry about this but, at least for me, it was easy to "patch" by taping a small square of a plastic grocery bag over the IR sensor (no onion paper handy in the house). Long-term, if Tivo doesn't fix this, I'll probably do the internal press-and-seal fix, but I'm not ready to crack the case just yet.


My first post. Thanks to the mods for a great forum. I have a new Samsung 50 inch plasma w/ a S3. My first HDTV. The picture is just stunning. I just wanted to write in and say thanks to lightrunner for the fix. I put the S3 on the bottom of the rack and put 5 layers of "Press-and-seal" on the outside of the unit (I don't acre about the looks) and the problem is completely fixed.

For those who don't want to get into the box and DO care about the looks of the "press and seal", here's what I found...You will get better accuracy with the remote if you point it to the wall in BACK of you instead of pointing at the TV and the S3. Just point the remote over your shoulder towards the back wall. Works much better, but nearly as good as the "press and seal".

A big HELLO from a noob!

Skippy


----------



## RKofCAL

This is very strange. Today the series 3 TIVO suddenly responds to the remote control consistently.

I received a software update at 2:00 a.m. on the 28th, but the problem was present yesterday evening, yet today (the 30th) the problem is gone. There were no further updates that I am aware of. The only difference in the room is that it is the middle of the day and there is a lot of natural light that enters the room. The only other thing I did different last night was to program the 30-second skip.

Here's a very interesting observation. I have both the series 2 and series 3 next to one another, so I can observe the response to remote control button presses simultaneously. If I power the monitor on, and press a remote control button repetetively, both the series 2 and the series 3 TIVO's miss a button press or two immediately after the backlight of the LCD is activated. After a second or two, they both respond perfectly.

I can only assume the problem will re-appear. I power cycled the box (which de-programmed 30 second skip), and the problem is still absent.


----------



## btwyx

RKofCAL said:


> I received a software update at 2:00 a.m. on the 28th,


Do you have 8.0.1a or something newer?


----------



## eisenb11

Lightrunner,

If I had a daughter I'd seriously consider letting you marry her! 

Your trick worked like a charm! 8 strips of Press'n Seal and the remote went from completely unusable to uber-duber awesome!

Thanks bro!

Edit:

Hmm, I wonder if there are enough S3 users to make Glad wonder why sales of Press'n Seal increased for a month...


----------



## RKofCAL

btwyx said:


> Do you have 8.0.1a or something newer?


I have 8.0.1a.


----------



## btwyx

RKofCAL said:


> I have 8.0.1a.


I wonder if that addresses the remote issue then. The first thing my machine ever did (first time, and after the drive upgrade) was to install 8.0.1a. I wonder if there's a correlation between remote issues and 8.0.1/8.0.1a. But I never had any remote issues anyway. (And I have a Plasma display.)


----------



## SeanTivo

bocktar said:


> I had not had any S3 IR issues until last night when I was using my laptop in close proximity to it (approximately five feet away). It turns out that the S3 gets totally confused by whatever Windows XP is sending out the IR port every five seconds.
> 
> It had the practical effect of making response to the remote very sluggish, sometimes missing button presses -- sometimes catching up on five or six of them all at once.
> 
> No other device in my cabinet is affected like this.
> 
> Just a heads up in case you're sitting next to your TiVo while typing away on the forums and beating your head against the wall about the IR issues.


Thank you! I had worked my way through all the possibilites mentioned in this thread and was about to call Tivo to get a replacement box. My problem was somewhat intermittent (the laptop is not always on and not always in the living room) but I was getting fed up. I had the no resonse about every 4-5 keystrokes but no queued up commands. Still annoying as hell.

One I took the laptop out of the room, voila. Works like a champ, now.

I have a HP nc6000 with win XP

Thanks again fo posting.


----------



## RKofCAL

I just tried the Remote, and it is once again not working. 

Now, here's the interesting part. If I turn on the ceiling lights in the room, it starts working with the monitor on or off. Turn off the lights, it works only when the monitor is turned off. 

My ceiling lights are fairly bright and hence I never turn them on at night. 

So, it appears that the ambient light in the room is a factor to this mystery. 

Perhaps the TIVO is setting a gain parameter in the IR receiver which amplifies the IR noise in such a way that it saturates. When the ambient light conditions are very high it may lower the gain so it is in the linear range. 

Here's another interesting experiment I tried. Shining a regular low power flashlight at the IR receiver also fixes the problem (the batteries are almost dead). Shining an LED flashlight has no effect. 

This may be the smoking gun.


----------



## RKofCAL

Oh, and one other thing, if I take a thin napkin, an droop it over the IR receiver, such that it attenuates everything arriving at the sensor, it works fine. Remove the napkin, it fails. 

Hence the lightrunner solution is once again shown to work.


----------



## TostitoBandito

I don't have a plasma display but I have been noticing some funny remote behavior as well.

At the moment I have noticed the Tivo does not respond to remote commands which are made in fairly rapid succession, like scrolling quickly through a list. It will get the first one, and then ignore all the successive commands, even if I stick the remote out right in front of the sensor while I am doing it. Yes, the light on the remote is lighting up for each input I make. I only started to notice this tonight while the room was fairly dark, so that may have an impact.

Well, I didn't try this earlier because I didn't honestly think the batteries that shipped with the Tivo would be dead after a week, but...

I replaced the batteries and the difference is night and day. This is somewhat disturbing because either the remote is draining batteries like crazy even when not being used, or the batteries they shipped were nearly dead.


----------



## MacGuruTX

For those of us with Sharp Aquos units, I went and turned off OPC completely in the Video menu and now have no remote problems. Thanks to MichaelK for the initial insight!


----------



## l_emmerdeur

As promised, I am reporting in on my new Panasonic TH-50PX600U and Tivo S3 remote control experience.

I have the S3 on the bottom shelf of a Sanus Systems NF203c TV stand, with an Explorer 3250HD STB on top of it (temporary!), and the plasma on the top shelf. The plasma is placed toward the back of the shelf, so the screen is about 2 feet above and a foot or so behind the S3.

I have experienced no problems using the S3 remote with the S3 or with the older S2 (I am using the new remote for both).

Please note that I have stated in a previous post that when I had placed a bright floor lamp near the S3 (the light source was about a foot or so from the front of the S3) I did have remote issues. In that case, I had to hold the remote almost directly in front of the face of the S3 for my button presses to register, and the further away I held it, the less reliable it became. I add this disclaimer in case people thought I received a "lucky" S3.


----------



## lightrunner

Hope all is well guys. Just a follow up, my coworker finally got his replacement (RMA) Tivo S3 this evening. It was brand new as Tivo guarantees if its been purchased under 30 days. I guess they send you a new one if you are experiencing issues with your S3 and its been under 30 days since the purchase. He plugged it in right away and noticed the same remote control issue. He was pretty fed up by the time he called me and asked me for this post to follow the glad press n seal directions. Anyway, my tivo is still working great. It's good to see so many of us coming up with different fixes. Good luck all.


----------



## RKofCAL

lightrunner said:


> Hope all is well guys. Just a follow up, my coworker finally got his replacement (RMA) Tivo S3 this evening. It was brand new as Tivo guarantees if its been purchased under 30 days. I guess they send you a new one if you are experiencing issues with your S3 and its been under 30 days since the purchase. He plugged it in right away and noticed the same remote control issue. He was pretty fed up by the time he called me and asked me for this post to follow the glad press n seal directions. Anyway, my tivo is still working great. It's good to see so many of us coming up with different fixes. Good luck all.


On my last call into customer support, the representative admitted to several reports of IR interference, with the common theme of TIVO placement and room lighting having effects on the severity. He suggested that the issue is being worked and held out hope for a software fix. He also stated the problem is not that widespread.

I suggested that they recreate the problem and not issue an RMA to anyone experiencing this issue unless it passes in that environment. This is obvious, I would expect they are implementing something.

My RMA has not yet shipped. I am hopeful that there is a screen being put into place or a hold pending a software fix. I'll post the results when I do receive the RMA.

How quickly did his RMA ship, was it right away?


----------



## besposito

I had the same problem with my 50" Panasonic Plasma.

I have a media cabinet directly below my plasma. When setting up my TiVo, I originally had it on top of the cabinet, just below the plasma. When I would use the remote I had the same problems mentioned here.

Once I moved the the S3 inside the cabinet (the cabinet has glass doors on front), the problem went away. It appears that if the S3 is placed somewhere that it does not receive direct interference/light from the plasma then it works find. If the S3 is close enough to the plasma so that the "light" from the plasma reflects upon the IR sensor it then cause problems.

Trying putting your S3 in a cabinet if possible.


----------



## lightrunner

RKofCAL said:


> On my last call into customer support, the representative admitted to several reports of IR interference, with the common theme of TIVO placement and room lighting having effects on the severity. He suggested that the issue is being worked and held out hope for a software fix. He also stated the problem is not that widespread.
> 
> I suggested that they recreate the problem and not issue an RMA to anyone experiencing this issue unless it passes in that environment. This is obvious, I would expect they are implementing something.
> 
> My RMA has not yet shipped. I am hopeful that there is a screen being put into place or a hold pending a software fix. I'll post the results when I do receive the RMA.
> 
> How quickly did his RMA ship, was it right away?


His RMA took about 14 days. Tivo did state to him that both plants were experiencing delays. He also mentioned that his new replacement had a September build date as to August which was the original. 
Please do keep us posted when your RMA comes in. Best.


----------



## RichB

If there is a hardware fix, I would prefer just a replacement faceplate  

- Rich


----------



## MichaelK

Since you have to take the cover off and be exposed to the unshielded power supply and disconnect an reconnect the ribbon cable to the front, I doubt it will be a user installbale fix (if they come up with a filtering faceplate).


----------



## rodneyw1

Lightrunner,

Thanks so much for the press-n-seal fix. I have two Series3's with a 42" Plasma and at times they were almost unuseable. It took less than 10 minutes each for the "Upgrade" and they both work 100% now.


----------



## sammick

I just blocked the sensor partially externally, and the romote works fine ( Panasonic plasma )

--waiting for Tivo to do the fix--I don't want to open an $800 machine--

Called Tech support 3 times--they are clueless--They are sending me a new remote--despite my telling them that my Universal has the same problem.

Someone has to push Tivo to do a fix--


----------



## The TiVo Dude

Sharp Aquos here.

Once it warms up, remote works like a charm.

Only problem is when TV is first on.


----------



## jacksonian

I have a Pioneer 6070. Absolutely no problems with the S3 remote.


----------



## bocktar

I wonder if the protective plastic that's on the S3 front panel when it comes out of the box attenuates the signal in a manner similar to the plastic wrap?


----------



## sammick

I had the problem with and without the plastic wrap--the only solution for me was to partially block the sensor.

I did it externally with a small desk thermometer--but any small object would probably do. 

I thought perhaps a picture on the wall opposite the T.V. and Tivo might be causing the reflections--so I removed it--still the same problem--

only partial blocking worked.

My guess is a hardware fix but who knows?

I am using the latest Tivo software.


----------



## sammick

Is it my imagination or do others think that the pic on the Tivo is FAR superior to that on the Comcast Motorola box.


----------



## sammick

Finally--
I just attached a small circular piece of opaque material to the outside of faceplate to cover the sensor--

Works like a charm

All the Tivo engineers have to do is send those of us who are having problems a small sticky to attach to the faceplate and it will solve all our problems.

Wake up Tivo!!!


----------



## RKofCAL

FYI, 

I spoke to TIVO support yesterday, my RMA has still not shipped. I asked whether there was a factory fix for the remote control issue, and he stated that he had a notice to that effect.


----------



## eisenb11

Honestly, you'd think the chances of a RMA solution fixing the problem right now is pretty minimal.

From the way things look, it's a design problem. I'm waiting for Tivo to actually fix it by changing the hardware, cover, or something before I'm calling in for a RMA.


----------



## jacksonian

I still have had zero problems with my S3 sitting on top of my A/V cabinet about 4 inches below my Pioneer 6070 plasma. So I'm unclear about the "design problem". You would think that this would be worst case scenario wouldn't you?


----------



## RichB

jacksonian said:


> I still have had zero problems with my S3 sitting on top of my A/V cabinet about 4 inches below my Pioneer 6070 plasma. So I'm unclear about the "design problem". You would think that this would be worst case scenario wouldn't you?


We are all happy for you. However, this information has not caused my S3 to work any better in the credenza below my Panasonic 657UY. My case remains open with TiVo with no response.

- Rich


----------



## jacksonian

RichB said:


> We are all happy for you. However, this information has not caused my S3 to work any better in the credenza below my Panasonic 657UY. My case remains open with TiVo with no response.
> 
> - Rich


I wasn't trying to dismiss your problem. I'm just pointing out that this doesn't seem to be a universal issue. And the fact that mine isn't having any problems in a very similar situation might actually HELP you narrow down/troubleshoot your problem. But I'll let you figure it out yourself if you don't want any help. Good luck.


----------



## RichB

jacksonian said:


> I wasn't trying to dismiss your problem. I'm just pointing out that this doesn't seem to be a universal issue. And the fact that mine isn't having any problems in a very similar situation might actually HELP you narrow down/troubleshoot your problem. But I'll let you figure it out yourself if you don't want any help. Good luck.


Sorry, I did not mean to snipe. I do not think we can conclude anything but a design problem. I have six devices with IR receivers that work properly in the same environment. I have opened it twice added glad wrap and I still get ocassional double entry on numbers and missed remote keystrokes. It is much better, it was unusable as shipped.

I guess we get pissed off at TiVo for not responding in other ways. I think an acknowledgement of some kind like: "we are aware of the problem and working on a solution".

I can handle that issues like this can occur. Customer support is lacking.

BTW, I am a lucky 200. They sent me an email 2 weeks ago that I would be receiving a TiVo bag. Nice touch. Of course, I have not received the bag 

- Rich


----------



## MichaelK

jacksonian said:


> I still have had zero problems with my S3 sitting on top of my A/V cabinet about 4 inches below my Pioneer 6070 plasma. So I'm unclear about the "design problem". You would think that this would be worst case scenario wouldn't you?


it depends on the backlight used in any one particular brand model of LCD. So I also suspect that the phosphors or coatings or glass(with whatever filtering properties) on any one particular model or brand of plasma matters. If you search the net, it's a widespread but not universal (as you have concluded yourself) problem.


----------



## jacksonian

RichB said:


> Sorry, I did not mean to snipe. I do not think we can conclude anything but a design problem. I have six devices with IR receivers that work properly in the same environment. I have opened it twice added glad wrap and I still get ocassional double entry on numbers and missed remote keystrokes. It is much better, it was unusable as shipped.
> 
> I guess we get pissed off at TiVo for not responding in other ways. I think an acknowledgement of some kind like: "we are aware of the problem and working on a solution".


No sweat. I just wonder if it's your particular S3 unit. It would be nice if you could compare another box, or better yet if we were close by, I could bring mine over and see if your TV gave my S3 problems or if your S3 would work with my TV. Just seems odd that it's not more universal. Seems like if it were your TV that none of your other IR devices would work either.


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## jacksonian

MichaelK said:


> it depends on the backlight used in any one particular brand model of LCD. So I also suspect that the phosphors or coatings or glass(with whatever filtering properties) on any one particular model or brand of plasma matters. If you search the net, it's a widespread but not universal (as you have concluded yourself) problem.


Rich and I both have plasmas, not LCDs, so there are no backlights. And my particualr brand of plasma (Pioneer) even removed one of the glass filters a couple of years back, so I would think mine would be giving off even more interference than Rich's, but I could be very wrong about that.


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## MichaelK

jacksonian said:


> Rich and I both have plasmas, not LCDs, so there are no backlights. And my particualr brand of plasma (Pioneer) even removed one of the glass filters a couple of years back, so I would think mine would be giving off even more interference than Rich's, but I could be very wrong about that.


I saw you have a plasma an i know they have no backlight- that's why I said I think there are still variables with those too.

Not knocking anyone's plasma (I can't afford any of them-LOL)- but isn't yours (the pioneer) the big dog on the block? It would not be illogical that pioneer does something on their end with the phosphors or the glass to get rid of the problem so their customers never have to deal with it. If it's a $10 IR blocking coating in the glass then a top of the line company might be adding it but someone that is seleling more of a commodity type high vloume unit might not.

If people want to see- dig up a sony nightshot camcorder. Turn on night shot with the room pitch black, then fire up the TV with a BLACK screen. The whole frigging room will get lit up like fourth of July fireworks if you have a problem. It's very obvious when you see it with your own 2 eyes through the nightshot IR CCD's "eyes".

Apparently some IR receivers filter that IR noise out better than others- so thats why some devices right next to the tivo's work fine. So it could be that some tivo's have a IR pickup with slightly differnt characteristics and might help, but I would guess that in general they part(s) they speced are more susceptable to this type thing. I am no engineer but it sounds like the reciever can eitehr filter the the spectrum to just get the right wavelenght from the remote and ignore the rest or they use electronic filtering to raise thje threshold of what is considered "on"


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## shortspecialbus

Another basic fix that worked well, at least for me, is to take a small piece of black electrical tape (or any opaque tape - black just looks best) and stick it at the FAR RIGHT of the faceplate, right next to the buttons on front. This brought my success from about 30% with a lot of double hits to 90% with no double hits.

There is no reason this should work since its nowhere near the sensor, but it worked on my moxi and it works on the tivo for some reason.

That said, I just shifted it a bit further back in my cabinet and now it gets about a 90% success rate without any tape. This is with a Panasonic TH-50PX60U plasma. Just an idea for those who don't want to open it up. It may only work in my particular setup.


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## sammick

As I mentioned in a previous reply--

You don't have to open the box

Just block a portion, or all of the sensor--start with an external object and if that works, you can get a piece of opaque material to stick on the face plate--

I have a Panasonic plasma and it works for me--nothing else did.


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## slocko

Here is a hot new accessory for the Series 3!!!!! And it's expensive too.

http://www.cir.com/parts/electape/electape.htm


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## RichB

shortspecialbus said:


> Another basic fix that worked well, at least for me, is to take a small piece of black electrical tape (or any opaque tape - black just looks best) and stick it at the FAR RIGHT of the faceplate, right next to the buttons on front. This brought my success from about 30% with a lot of double hits to 90% with no double hits.
> 
> There is no reason this should work since its nowhere near the sensor, but it worked on my moxi and it works on the tivo for some reason.


The sensor is located on the far right next to the buttons. Shine a flashlight on it and you will see the circular hole.

- Rich


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## shortspecialbus

Huh, how about that, eh? heh. I guess I just thought it was in the middle based on TiVo's instructions that I glanced over about setting the remote 1/2 switch about blocking the center of the thing.

Regardless, the fix still works, but now it makes some sense.



RichB said:


> The sensor is located on the far right next to the buttons. Shine a flashlight on it and you will see the circular hole.
> 
> - Rich


----------



## RichB

shortspecialbus said:


> Huh, how about that, eh? heh. I guess I just thought it was in the middle based on TiVo's instructions that I glanced over about setting the remote 1/2 switch about blocking the center of the thing.
> 
> Regardless, the fix still works, but now it makes some sense.


Yep. These are the things you learn when stuffing Press-N-Seal into your TiVo 

- Rich


----------



## RKofCAL

Hello, bad news.

I received my RMA yesterday, the new TIVO has a manufactured date of 
October 4th. Funny, it has yellow LED's whereas the original one has orange
LED's.

This unit is improved in terms of how often the remote control button 
presses are recognized, but it still is unusable without the usual remedies. 

I called customer support. They are very very careful in what is being said.
The agent denied that there is a fix available at the factory or in software,
or whether there ever would be one. He said that the engineering team is very 
aware of and understands the issue, that it is an interference issue with 
Infrared emissions from certain television monitors.

There is a dark cloud over at TIVO, they put me on hold when I asked reasonable
questions, came back with "I can only give you this official response".
They appear to be trying to decide what to acknowledge along with a 
policy for customers, definitely very tight lipped. I suspect they are
uncertain whether to issue a recall offer or not. Those without problems
now will certainly be upset if they upgrade to a plasma/LCD monitor that
exhibits the interference. And clearly a simple fix is to use a different
IR sensor, my series2 sensor is immune. I'm guessing they don't want to 
get a wave of returns if they can help it which may bite them in the end.

The agent did admit this is a nightmare for them. He started out
stand-offish, but opened up and became sympathetic as the discussion 
progressed.


----------



## eisenb11

MichaelK said:


> Not knocking anyone's plasma (I can't afford any of them-LOL)- but isn't yours (the pioneer) the big dog on the block? It would not be illogical that pioneer does something on their end with the phosphors or the glass to get rid of the problem so their customers never have to deal with it.


Unless it has changed (which is possible), Pioneer uses NEC plasma panels.

I have a Marantz plasma that uses the same NEC panels as its Pioneer Elite counterpart... and I'm experiencing IR problems.

It is possible that Pioneer has a special coating, but I doubt it.

Most likely, it seems that those were are not experiencing problems may be lucky do to either:

1. Environmental conditions (placement, ambient light, ambient interference, etc)
2. Random variation in S3 manufacturing (perhaps some "flaw" actually fixes the problem)
3. Random variation in manufacturing of their own display device
4. Some lucky combination of device settings that happens to allow things to work in light of 1-3

There's just too much randomality going on here.

I think it's a safe bet, however, to say that this is due to a design flaw in the S3.

I, like many others, have a ton of IR devices and the S3 is the only one that is affected.

I think I have around 14 different IR devices in that area... some of them were made as much as 10 years before plasma technology even existed in the consumer arena and they have no problems.


----------



## sammick

There is no question that the flaw is in the sensor--

That the fault is in the S3, not in the plasma or the remote--

That it a problem that Tivo must address--either with a software fix or a hardware fix which might mean a recall from those who want an exchange.

and the sooner Tivo addresses the problem, the better.


----------



## MichaelK

just to be clear- I'm not saying tivo isn't partly to blame, but clearly there are plenty of plasma's and LCD's out there that emit a bunch more IR than other sets. There wouldnt be the plethora of "plasma proof" Ir repeaders that exist if that werent' the case. 

Obviously certain devices are immune even to the excess IR from these sets and I think it's a serious mistake on Tivo's part that they didn't include whatever parts are needed to make the S3 "plasma proof". Paricularly when some press and seal works- they should be able to add a 3 cent plastic "filter" or something to limit the background IR. I'm pretty amazed they never saw it in beta. THey seem to do widespreed beta testing even on new hardware so I dont know how they didn't ecounter at least one "bright" lcd or plasma before this. I guess it's possible they were just very unlucky....


----------



## RKofCAL

One other thing, I asked for clarification on RMA's after 1 month. TIVO stated 
the policy is that an RMA that is issued after one month from date of delivery 
will get a refurbished unit. Within one month is a new unit. Regardless 
of the situation.

This makes the timeframe for a fix quite critical ... wait too long and get 
a refurb, go to early (like me) and don't benefit from a fix. 

The curse of the early adopter.


----------



## naclone

here's an interference issue I haven't seen posted yet.

I have a 40" Sony Bravia LCD set and got my Series 3 hooked up last friday. I had absolutely no remote issues (or any issues for that matter) all weekend. Everything worked perfectly.

Then I come home from work yesterday and both my S3 remote and Harmony 880 are completely unresponsive on the S3. both work fine on the S2 in the same room. I get maybe 10% recognition when i aim the remotes directly at the IR sensor just a few feet away. nothing if I lean back.

I call TiVo Support and the guy walks me through the standard questions. I put a piece of yellow notebook paper over the sensor and the remote works fine, so we've determined it is a sensor intereference issue. But I explain that everything was working fine for days until now so it can't be the TV - I haven't made any adjustments or anything to it.

Then he asks me if I have a *wireless mouse*. And wouldn't you know it, not 10 minutes before I turned on the TV I got a prompt from my Microsoft wireless mouse that the batteries were critically low, but I hadn't changed them yet.

I popped new batteries into the mouse and the S3 responded normally as it had all weekend.

Is that crazy?

Is it possible that the mouse changed it's signal output when the batteries were low in order to maintain a connection and that change affected the S3?

Or do we think it was some other variable I'm unaware of (like the TV warming up) and the wireless mouse was a coincidence/red herring?

Thoughts?


----------



## Stormspace

naclone said:


> here's an interference issue I haven't seen posted yet.
> 
> I have a 40" Sony Bravia LCD set and got my Series 3 hooked up last friday. I had absolutely no remote issues (or any issues for that matter) all weekend. Everything worked perfectly.
> 
> Then I come home from work yesterday and both my S3 remote and Harmony 880 are completely unresponsive on the S3. both work fine on the S2 in the same room. I get maybe 10% recognition when i aim the remotes directly at the IR sensor just a few feet away. nothing if I lean back.
> 
> I call TiVo Support and the guy walks me through the standard questions. I put a piece of yellow notebook paper over the sensor and the remote works fine, so we've determined it is a sensor intereference issue. But I explain that everything was working fine for days until now so it can't be the TV - I haven't made any adjustments or anything to it.
> 
> Then he asks me if I have a *wireless mouse*. And wouldn't you know it, not 10 minutes before I turned on the TV I got a prompt from my Microsoft wireless mouse that the batteries were critically low, but I hadn't changed them yet.
> 
> I popped new batteries into the mouse and the S3 responded normally as it had all weekend.
> 
> Is that crazy?
> 
> Is it possible that the mouse changed it's signal output when the batteries were low in order to maintain a connection and that change affected the S3?
> 
> Or do we think it was some other variable I'm unaware of (like the TV warming up) and the wireless mouse was a coincidence/red herring?
> 
> Thoughts?


That's freaky. Never heard of RF interference causing a problem with IR. Is it a laser mouse? With the red led on the bottom?


----------



## naclone

It's a laser mouse but uses bluetooth to communicate with the computer.

this is the model...

http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Opt...6/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt/104-9255032-4769531?ie=UTF8


----------



## Stormspace

I suppose it's possible that the LED is causing some interference and the difference wasn't the low battery condition but the mouses position.


----------



## MichaelK

does the bravia have any kind of setting to make the backlight variable based upon ambient lighting?


----------



## naclone

I'm not sure. I think it may. I definitely have the ability to adjust the backlight but i'm not sure if it has an ambient light sensing function. I'll look into when I get home.

suffice to say the ambient light didn't change much if any during the period in question.


----------



## slocko

the led probably started flashing rapidly signaling weak battery, sending more inteference than normal?


----------



## naclone

slocko said:


> the led probably started flashing rapidly signaling weak battery, sending more inteference than normal?


I'm really hoping this was it because I'd hate to have it resurface and have to start trouble shooting from scratch or go through the hassle of replacing the unit or opening it up to glad wrap it.


----------



## RKofCAL

Has anyone received an RMA that does not exhibit the IR sensor issue? Please post the date of manufacture if you did. DOM's from September 13th (orange LEDs) and October 4th (yellow LEDs) were both problematic for me.


----------



## Mathmn

I just set up my Series 3, and am having the same IR issues. I also have a Harmony 880 and that has the same TIVO problems as the original remote. My other components work just fine.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

Is the IR problem with the S3 a Plasma or LCD issue? Also, does turning off any ambient light sensors on the display help?


----------



## MichaelK

to summerize-

some plasmas and some lcd's cause it.

Seems certain models and/or brands are more likely to trigger the issue with the tivo's. Apparently some s3's are more sensative to IR interference than other components. Some report that their S2's or DVD players etc work fine while the S3 chokes. If I recal at least one person had better results with an exchanged S3. So MIGHT be some S3's are more susceptible than others (but maybe that guy just had a complete bum S3..)

With LCD's turning off ambient light sensors and than manually adjusting the backlight brightness can help in some instances.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

MichaelK said:


> to summerize-
> 
> some plasmas and some lcd's cause it.
> 
> Seems certain models and/or brands are more likely to trigger the issue with the tivo's. Apparently some s3's are more sensative to IR interference than other components. Some report that their S2's or DVD players etc work fine while the S3 chokes. If I recal at least one person had better results with an exchanged S3. So MIGHT be some S3's are more susceptible than others (but maybe that guy just had a complete bum S3..)
> 
> With LCD's turning off ambient light sensors and than manually adjusting the backlight brightness can help in some instances.


Thanks!


----------



## Dave5477

I was considering purchase of the S3 before the end of the year to take advantage of the lifetime service transfer offer but hearing about this problem has me concerned.

I use a MX-850 universal remote to run my entire A/V stack including an S2 unit and it works great. I use the MX-850 in RF mode only which means it transmits the RF signal to a receiver which converts the RF signal to IR via individual flashers to each A/V device. 

Do any of you have experience with using a discrete flasher stuck near the S3 sensor. I must say that even the S2 was very sensitive to IR flasher overload. The position of the flasher was critical. I heard from the Universal Remote field techys that the TIVO units are sensitive to placement of a discrete flasher.

But again, my question is has anyone had good luck using a dedicated flasher attached somewhere on the S3 sensor window or near it?


----------



## MichaelK

Dave5477 said:


> I was considering purchase of the S3 before the end of the year to take advantage of the lifetime service transfer offer but hearing about this problem has me concerned.
> 
> I use a MX-850 universal remote to run my entire A/V stack including an S2 unit and it works great. I use the MX-850 in RF mode only which means it transmits the RF signal to a receiver which converts the RF signal to IR via individual flashers to each A/V device.
> 
> Do any of you have experience with using a discrete flasher stuck near the S3 sensor. I must say that even the S2 was very sensitive to IR flasher overload. The position of the flasher was critical. I heard from the Universal Remote field techys that the TIVO units are sensitive to placement of a discrete flasher.
> 
> But again, my question is has anyone had good luck using a dedicated flasher attached somewhere on the S3 sensor window or near it?


yes- I use a speakercraft IR target that sends the signal to a channelplus "brain" to stick on emmitters and have no problems.

The emitters aren't the problem it's weather or not the target "soaks up" nenough IR interference to overload the tivo. Since you have no target and are sending commands to teh emmitter via RF I think you should be totally fine.


----------



## CartmanS3

For those of you dealing with the TIVO Series 3 remote problem and are considering what to do about it, I thought I should share my experience at making an exchange.

My S3 had the remote problem. Likely caused by my Panasonic 50" plasma. I had used the press and seal solution on the outside and that worked like a champ, but it annoyed me that this expensive machine required my intervention to fix the manufacturer's problem. 

So I went for the exchange. After a call to Tivo confirmed for them that I was indeed having plasma interference, they agreed to send a replacement. Accepting this offer was no small thing. The cable cards were already installed (3 hour tech visit and a missed day of work) and they were working beautifully, plus Tivo required that I put another $800 on the charge to get a replacement sent unless I wanted to send mine back first. (I didn't.) So I committed to the charge and took my chances. (BTW, this is a really lame policy. Especially when they acknowledge the problem is in the product. They have my credit card on file if I don't follow through, so why do they need the money up-front, unless its a way of discouraging people from exercising this option.)

The replacement TIVO came in less than a week. I noticed it was the yellow front where-as the original had the orange LEDs. First thing I did was check out the remote. Good news, the new unit was not having any problems!! And that was a very good thing, since TIVO had already switched my service to the new unit, so I was going to have to keep it.

Next step, the cable cards..... I debated making the switch first then calling the cable company. In my case that's COMCAST in Anne Arundel County, Maryland, but I decided to be upfront and call first and get them involved before making the change. That turned out to be a good decision.

I called Comcast's 888 number and after a few menu picks I had a tech on the phone. It was about 2:00pm on a Friday, but I got right through. That was a surprise itself. Anyway, I told the tech, I needed to switch the cards from a broken TIVO to a replacement unit. He immediately recommended that they schedule a tech to come do the job. I countered that this would take a week and all I needed was some new info to be entered on their end and a "hit" to the cards. He said he'd give it a try. 

I moved the first card and when the pairing information came up I gave him the cable card data, the host id, and the data numbers. Then we did the same for the second card. BTW, there's a delay of about a minute or more after inserting the card before the pairing information comes up. He waited patiently along with me. After he keyed the numbers into the system on his end, he carefully read back all the numbers to verify the information. I asked if he had ever done a TIVO before, he said no, but I guess he knows how important accuracy is at this step. Anyway, after he verified the numbers, he "hit" or whatever they do to send the new information to the cards, and they immediately started to work. This was way quicker than the original install. I don't know if its because the cards were already initialized with current firmware, but whatever, I was thrilled. I asked if I could call him direct if I needed to follow-up, and he gave me his name and extension!! Fortunately, that wasn't required. Total call time less than 20 minutes. 

I went through the guided setup. Downloaded program updates, waited for the indexing, restored my season passes and all is well. What a relief! I have a TIVO that works the way its supposed to, plasma or no plasma.

Tivo had already sent me a prepaid return label for UPS, so I boxed up the old one, with press and seal still attached. Packed it back in the box the new one arrived in, along with the RMA form, and dropped it the local UPS store. Now all I need to do is track it to TIVOs return facility in KY, and wait for my $800 credit. (Yes, I've read about the delays' some are experiencing with the refund.)

Sure I could have opened the TIVO, put the press and seal on the inside and had virtually the same result, but it would have always bugged me that TIVO was getting off without any impact. And there's a bonus for me.... When you return a TIVO, they don't want the old cables or the remote returned, so I have shiny new backlit TIVO remote that I can use on my S2, and a HDMI cable for the DVD. A small reward, but I also have the satisfaction of knowing TIVO didn't get off scott free. They have a refurb on their hands and had to pay for shipping to and fro. Its a small psychic reward to go along with the new box.

Bottomline: It was a LOT less trouble than I was prepared for and I'm really glad I did it.


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## RKofCAL

CartmanS3 said:


> For those of you dealing with the TIVO Series 3 remote problem and are considering what to do about it, I thought I should share my experience at making an exchange.


This is great news, can you share the date of manufacture on your replacement?
I RMA'd, received a unit manufactured Oct 4 (with yellow LED's also), but it had
the same issue.


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## jfh3

So, is the OLED really yellow or is the front bezel different so it just looks that way?


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## CartmanS3

RKofCAL said:


> This is great news, can you share the date of manufacture on your replacement?
> I RMA'd, received a unit manufactured Oct 4 (with yellow LED's also), but it had
> the same issue.


Made in Mexico 9 October 2006.


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## CartmanS3

jfh3 said:


> So, is the OLED really yellow or is the front bezel different so it just looks that way?


Its actually hard to tell, but my best guess is the LEDs are yellow and the covering lens is smokey grey.


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## krstone

CartmanS3 said:


> For those of you dealing with the TIVO Series 3 remote problem and are considering what to do about it, I thought I should share my experience at making an exchange...........


Thanks for the info. I also have the interference problem and I am waiting for my replacement. I will post here when I test the new one.

FWIW, when I spoke with Level 3 support, I asked whether this is an issue that is being worked on. He said that it is not: they consider it to be an 'environmental issue'. But they are willing to make one exchange, nevertheless.

Ken


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## CartmanS3

krstone said:


> Thanks for the info. I also have the interference problem and I am waiting for my replacement. I will post here when I test the new one.
> 
> FWIW, when I spoke with Level 3 support, I asked whether this is an issue that is being worked on. He said that it is not: they consider it to be an 'environmental issue'. But they are willing to make one exchange, nevertheless.
> 
> Ken


Good luck. I hope it goes as smoothly as mine.

"Environmental Issue" ?!!! Oh yeah, they mean the television is in the same room. Let's hope it doesn't come down to a debate about the environmental conditions when its 100 percent clear that the problem is inside the box.


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## Brainiac 5

CartmanS3 said:


> "Environmental Issue" ?!!! Oh yeah, they mean the television is in the same room.


But how could they possibly have foreseen that people would use the S3 in the *same room* as a *television*?!? It was never designed for that! 

Reminds me of a guy that came once to service my treadmill - he said mine was in good shape, many other people abuse theirs, by which I gathered he meant they *run on them*!


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## RichB

Is it fair to say that the newer units with the Yellow display are working and those of us with the IR problem have orange units?

- Rich


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## RKofCAL

RichB said:


> Is it fair to say that the newer units with the Yellow display are working and those of us with the IR problem have orange units?
> 
> - Rich


Here's what I think, and it is just a guess based on some loose facts. The orange units have clear bezels. The yellow units provide a filter which is effective on the interference with plasma units. The interference with LCD units is not adequately filtered by the "yellow" filter. The reason this seems plausible is that others have had complete success with the yellow filter, and I think they all had plasma units.

I have an LCD Aquos unit. The IR issue was very bad with my original "orange" Tivo. My RMA TIVO is yellow in display, and there is a slight improvement.

I am working with a support person who is arranging another swap. She feels my problem will be addressed with the latest. The decision to do a 2nd RMA was made after she conferred with engineering and called me back the next day.

I'll report when this RMA arrives. The "paper napkin over the IR sensor" is effective for now.


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## RichB

RKofCAL said:


> Here's what I think, and it is just a guess based on some loose facts. The orange units have clear bezels. The yellow units provide a filter which is effective on the interference with plasma units. The interference with LCD units is not adequately filtered by the "yellow" filter. The reason this seems plausible is that others have had complete success with the yellow filter, and I think they all had plasma units.
> 
> I have an LCD Aquos unit. The IR issue was very bad with my original "orange" Tivo. My RMA TIVO is yellow in display, and there is a slight improvement.
> 
> I am working with a support person who is arranging another swap. She feels my problem will be addressed with the latest. The decision to do a 2nd RMA was made after she conferred with engineering and called me back the next day.
> 
> I'll report when this RMA arrives. The "paper napkin over the IR sensor" is effective for now.


Hmmm. So it sounds like a yellow unit is not enough.

I guess I will hang tight and wait for more reports.

- Rich


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## RKofCAL

I confirmed with a supervisor that the only fix for the IR problem is to get a specially modified unit which is "refurbished". This has the fix that will work at least for my situation, and there is "no near term expectation" for the fix showing up in new units, implying they are not going to put it on new units for a while if at all. I am very displeased that I have to accept a refurbished unit, with a good chance of inheriting an issue found by another customer, with "no trouble found" at the refurb depot. 

Of course, this supervisor could be untruthful regarding new units in order to process another refurb, but what recourse would I have. I guess the worst case is yet another RMA, but this is becoming irritating.


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## krstone

I think that the only solution would come in the unlikely event that this issue broke through into a widely-read medium and Tivo were publically embarassed enough to have no choice but to admit a problem and offer a fix. It seems clear that they will do their best to ignore it, and will probably be successful in doing so.


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## krstone

So, I got my replacement RMA machine from Tivo. Before opening the box I took off the Press and Seal and whadya know: the remote works fine. Before putting on the Glad wrap cover, there was 100% reproducibility of the plasma interference problem: wrap off: remote doesn't work; wrap on: works every time. Has been quite a few days now without the Glad wrap and remote working fine. I returned the RMA sealed in the box.

I now have a bit of sympathy for the Tivo guys on this problem. My equipment setup has not changed but the remote response is now perfect whereas it was unusable before. I am at a loss to understand this.

Ken


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## bilbo

i tried perusing this thread and the following trend seemed to appear. people have been having problems mainly with panasonic plasmas and sharp lcd's. of course those two just happen to be close to (if not at) the top of my list of a potentially new (first) hdtv. before really reading this thread, i thought it was plasma-only (but i guess i was wrong).

i know from reading this thread there is a jimmy-rigged press-and-seal fix. and ambient light may be a problem, also. has tivo come up with a solution to this? if i buy a new s3 are these problems still going to persist? i am looking to plunk down an additional amount of almost $1K for an s3 and lifetime transfer fee later this year, and possibly in the neighborhood of $2K for a HDTV (by the end of April 2007).


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## RKofCAL

krstone said:


> I now have a bit of sympathy for the Tivo guys on this problem. My equipment setup has not changed but the remote response is now perfect whereas it was unusable before. I am at a loss to understand this.
> 
> Ken


In the early days, I thought the problem came and went, but I slowly discovered that in daylight it worked, whereas in the darkened room it did not. I then discovered that flashing a normal bulb-flashlight at the IR sensor also improved the response, so that was a factor. I also discovered that the auto-dimmer, when disabled and set to maximum brightness, resulted in much improved response.

So, it seems that the signal to noise ratio at the sensor is a factor, and the attenuation of the backlighting of the LCD is a factor. As well, after the backlight warms up (30 minutes or so), the problem disappears (for me).

I called TIVO to check on my RMA, which still hasn't shipped. I'm very disappointed with the support staff, some reveal bits of the truth whereas most of them are clearly lying, and some are muzzled (ask the right question and they go ask for the answer to supply, which sounds like it was supplied by a lawyer as they plead the 5th). This is incredibly sleazy, but what can one expect from a company running on .com fumes with profitability far less likely than bankruptcy. Anyways, the information I received from him was that refurb's are getting full upgrades to address this and other issues and this is the only solution. He actually was very confident a brand new unit would reveal the same problem.

Perhaps they are doing everything in their power to hide the notion that they are providing fixes at the production line, in an attempt to ward off the avalanche of RMA's that might be triggered if that gets out, and to stave off the "wait until the inventory build up is purged before I buy one" phenomenon that would kill the holiday sales. That would probably be the end of TIVO, so maybe its a good thing.


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## RichB

I just bought a second S3 which came with the new yellow display.

There are absolutely no problems with the remote in the same location as my older orange S3.

I guess this means there are new units without the problem. 

Can I move my drive from the older unit to the new s3 and have the programs remain or are they somehow encrypted to work only on the original unit?

I am trying to figure out what to do about my older S3. If the front panel has the fix, the best solution would be a replacement for this part, then I would not have to redo the cablecards and all.

Any suggestions?

- Rich


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## MichaelK

you cant move the drive from one box to another. It will require you to do a clear and delete everything to get the drive to work in the new box. 

(unless things have recently changed- check the upgrade forum here for info)

is it easy to remove the front bezel and pcb board?


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## RichB

MichaelK said:


> you cant move the drive from one box to another. It will require you to do a clear and delete everything to get the drive to work in the new box.
> 
> (unless things have recently changed- check the upgrade forum here for info)
> 
> is it easy to remove the front bezel and pcb board?


I supsected they would have encrypted them so they are machine dependant.
Thanks for the info.

Yes. If you look at the press-n-seal instructions, it is just a matter of removing the screws and disconnecting the IO cable. That is it.

- Rich


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## eisenb11

Hmm, is there any way to get Tivo to send a new front plate over?

It would sure suck having to get the cable guys out here again after the trouble getting it working the first time!


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## RichB

eisenb11 said:


> Hmm, is there any way to get Tivo to send a new front plate over?
> 
> It would sure suck having to get the cable guys out here again after the trouble getting it working the first time!


I am going to try on Monday.

- Rich


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## RichB

I changed my mind. I just called TiVo to get a replacement.

My new yellow display S3 does not have this issue, I hope that the replacement is a yellow TiVo as well.

- Rich


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## RKofCAL

Well this is my second time RMA'ing my TIVO, I received what was supposed to be a refurb with the IR issue resolved. Instead, I received a new unit (confirmed by TIVO), I guess the return system they have makes it difficult to process for a refurb with the 30 day policy of RMA gets a new unit. 

This one has the worst sensitivity so far. It has the yellow lighting, with a date of manufacture of October 18th. 

So, this confirms that my issue is not addressed at the factory. My problem is with the LCD backlight interference, not plasma. Perhaps they have addressed just the issue with plasma interference (I was one of the first sharp Aquos owners, maybe later models are okay?) 

I may give up at this point. Too much time spent on the phone to Tivo.


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## RichB

RKofCAL said:


> Well this is my second time RMA'ing my TIVO, I received what was supposed to be a refurb with the IR issue resolved. Instead, I received a new unit (confirmed by TIVO), I guess the return system they have makes it difficult to process for a refurb with the 30 day policy of RMA gets a new unit.
> 
> This one has the worst sensitivity so far. It has the yellow lighting, with a date of manufacture of October 18th.
> 
> So, this confirms that my issue is not addressed at the factory. My problem is with the LCD backlight interference, not plasma. Perhaps they have addressed just the issue with plasma interference (I was one of the first sharp Aquos owners, maybe later models are okay?)
> 
> I may give up at this point. Too much time spent on the phone to Tivo.


That is bad news. I hope I get one that works.
You might want to do that press-n-seal fix.

- Rich


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## craigo

FWIW, I have a 50" Panasonic Plasma TH-50PX60U and have no problems with the S3 remote.


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## RichB

craigo said:


> FWIW, I have a 50" Panasonic Plasma TH-50PX60U and have no problems with the S3 remote.


Yellow or Orange?

- Rich


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## craigo

RichB said:


> Yellow or Orange?
> 
> - Rich


To be perfectly honest, it's kind of hard to tell. I would say orange. It was made in Mexico, 10-03-06 if that helps.

EDIT: Ok...After getting some other opinions, I am changing and saying it's yellow. I have 2 things recording so it's a little easier to tell.


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## MichaelK

RKofCAL said:


> Well this is my second time RMA'ing my TIVO, I received what was supposed to be a refurb with the IR issue resolved. Instead, I received a new unit (confirmed by TIVO), I guess the return system they have makes it difficult to process for a refurb with the 30 day policy of RMA gets a new unit.
> 
> This one has the worst sensitivity so far. It has the yellow lighting, with a date of manufacture of October 18th.
> 
> So, this confirms that my issue is not addressed at the factory. My problem is with the LCD backlight interference, not plasma. Perhaps they have addressed just the issue with plasma interference (I was one of the first sharp Aquos owners, maybe later models are okay?)
> 
> I may give up at this point. Too much time spent on the phone to Tivo.


JUST a WAG but I'm thinking the Aquos backlight is a differnt wave length or somethign from the plasma radiation...


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## RichB

I have two TiVo S3's. The newest one is yellow and the older one is orange.

I swapped the faceplates and the IR problem is gone. Since we know everything including the software was the same, I think we know conclusively that there is the issues is with the Faceplate/IR receiver.

Too bad TiVo wont just ship you a new faceplate.

- Rich


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## mblivice

I'd like to try the interior Press & Seal remedy with my S2 - is anything different that I should do, or be aware of, when opening up my unit, compared to opening up a S3? Thanks so much!


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## sherylking

Not wanting to open up the box, I tried a white grocery bag over the front. A little better. Then I tried a piece of paper from a yellow legal pad. That works much better. Does this make it a legal solution?


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## Kit_C

Dave5477 said:


> Do any of you have experience with using a discrete flasher stuck near the S3 sensor. I must say that even the S2 was very sensitive to IR flasher overload. The position of the flasher was critical. I heard from the Universal Remote field techys that the TIVO units are sensitive to placement of a discrete flasher.
> 
> But again, my question is has anyone had good luck using a dedicated flasher attached somewhere on the S3 sensor window or near it?


FWIW, I use a Xantech IR repeater system. My IR sensor is the non-plasma version of the Dinky-link (Xantech P/N 480B-30/RP), located about 8 " below my 50" Panasonic 9UK plasma. My equipment rack is ~15 feet away, at a 90° angle to the display. I use Xantech blink IR emiiters (p/n 283M) on each component, including a series 3 Tivo, and performance has been excellent.

Prior to installing the Xantech system, I had an MX-850 RF remote with an RF/IR repeater, and it worked equally well. I switched to Xantech primarily so my family could continue to use the peanut remote.

I did not find IR flasher placement to be critical with either of these setups. My Tivo was purchased in February, but I don't know the date of manufacture.

Kit
San Diego, CA


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## skip-those-ads

RichB said:


> I have two TiVo S3's. The newest one is yellow and the older one is orange.
> 
> I swapped the faceplates and the IR problem is gone. Since we know everything including the software was the same, I think we know conclusively that there is the issues is with the Faceplate/IR receiver.
> 
> Too bad TiVo wont just ship you a new faceplate.
> 
> - Rich


I've been using the glad wrap press n seal fix for 9 months now. I just called Tivo thinking they must have a fix for it by now. Not a chance. They will only ship me a replacement unit and then I have to go through the Comcast root canal procedure again to reset the cable cards. I say no thanks to that Comcast installation nightmare. And I guess that's a chargeable service call as well. Tivo will not send me a replacement face plate. I even offered to BUY a new face plate as a spare part or replacement part. They told me that they do not sell parts for a Tivo in any way. I offered to sign whatever waiver or release they wanted if I could buy a spare part, but they said no to that too!

These people at Tivo are unbelievable. I could never imagine buying a product where you can't get spare parts. But it looks like I inadvertently did just that.

Perhaps I'll try the yellow legal pad paper that a previous poster mentioned. Does anyone know if that works better than press n seal (outside of unit)? What about press n seal on inside of unit? Is that better?

Oh, BTW, our kitchen oven recently had a broken LED readout. I quickly found a website that sells spare parts, bought one and installed it with complete success. Too bad Tivo is not that flexible. The company is not very well run, IMO, and the stock price reflects that.


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## avwheeler

I was very glad to find this thread, although I am continuing to have problems. I just purchased a new Tivo HD XL unit. You would think with all the reported complaints that Tivo would have figured out that they need to use a different IR sensor in their new units, but no. I have a new Vizio VO47L LCD television. Out of the box, the Tivo remote would not work. They are sending a new remote. In the meantime, I decided to borrow a friend's Tivo remote to see if it changed the situation. No. I then went and purchased a different Tivo unit. Same problem. At this point, I started doing online research and found out about the IR interference issue. When I turn off my television, my remote works just fine. Tried tape, nope. Tried an IR interference sensor. Nope. Tried foil. Nope. Since I don't plan on sitting two feet away from my Tivo box in order to use the remote, I'm going to continue to experiement with box placement. I've also written to Vizio to ask them for their suggestions on how to damp down the IR radiation coming off the television. I will report back, but I wanted to let folks know that this problem continues with the new Tivo boxes. Grrrrrrrrrr.


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## MacGuruTX

My problem went away after I turned off the Automatic Brightness control on my Sharp LCD.


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## kazoolemur

I have the unfortunate situation that my Tivo faces my 42" Panasonic Plasma and we set out of view of the front of the Tivo. I use a Radio Shack Remote Extender (equal to X-10 power-mid) to relay the remote to the Tivo. I have had significant issues over the years and tried many dsolutions, but the best was to apply a small 1 square piece of plastic shopping bag over the IR sensor on the Tivo S3. I also covered the sensing face of the Remote Extender with the grocery bag. 

I cant believe how much better it works. Almost like magic.


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## Robert Deckman

Another quick solution is to use a single piece of masking tape covering the ir sensor.


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## Robert Deckman

My masking tape solution stopped working. Used the press-n-seal method and things seem to working ok.


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## blacknoi

I have an orange-tinted OLED S3 (bought when they first came out) on an older DLP rear-projection HDTV.

I want to replace it with a newer Plasma HDTV (Still the best looking picture to my eye personally).

Is it likely I'll have this issue with poor IR reception? 

Or another way to phrase the question: Has anything changed in a 2012 plasma TV that my S3 might play nicer with than when this thread was started in 2006?


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## dianebrat

In reality it was never really a huge issue for anything other than a handful of folks, and it also ties in to the automatic room brightness sensor on the TV being part of the problem, turning it off frequently resolves the remote issues.

I speak from having had multiple plasma sets throughout the life of my S3, HD, and now Premieres, and none ever had an issue.


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## mattack

This was brought up on the HD & Home Theatre podcast, and neither of them had really heard of it... then on the next episode, one corrected and said he searched for it, but they'd never run into it themselves.


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## blacknoi

Thanks for the feedback. Makes me feel better.


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