# BOLT via Wi-Fi + Mini via Ethernet... Possible?



## EchoBravo (Apr 20, 2002)

Just moved. I have easy access to wired Ethernet in my master bedroom. In the family room, however, no such easy access exists. 

My TiVo BOLT is in the family room and accesses the Internet via fast, flawless wi-fi (65 down / 7 up). In the bedroom is the TiVo mini, plugged into Ethernet. 

The two devices aren't seeing one another. 

Am I wrong in guessing both devices need to be on the same *kind* of connection? Is my current setup simply undoable?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

EchoBravo said:


> Just moved. I have easy access to wired Ethernet in my master bedroom. In the family room, however, no such easy access exists.
> 
> My TiVo BOLT is in the family room and accesses the Internet via fast, flawless wi-fi (65 down / 7 up). In the bedroom is the TiVo mini, plugged into Ethernet.
> 
> ...


Hate to tell you, but your internet speed has 0% affect on the Bolt to Mini communication. However, there is one fact to keep in mind. A TiVo hates to have its IP address changed. Some like to use fixed IP addresses. That's your choice.

Here's the problem. On a Roamio (and probably Bolt) TiVo says you MUST use an Ethernet connection. My Roamio "thinks" it's via Ethernet. So I'm afraid that WiFi to the Bolt may be your problem. Get some CAT5 cable and test it. The host needs a wired connection.

My Mini uses a WUMC710 wired to wireless adapter. My Roamio uses an ASUS EA-N66R. No physical contact, but the router is the logical connection.


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## EchoBravo (Apr 20, 2002)

That's what I was afraid of. Router is a long way from the BOLT, but it looks like I have a project now.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Do you have a coax outlet at both locations? If so, then just move the Bolt to the bedroom and connect it to the internet with the ethernet connection, and then just use MoCA for communication between the Bolt and the Mini. They both have MoCA built in and the Bolt will be able to bridge the ethernet and MoCA connection to provide internet to the Mini.

If coax isn't available, you can potentially get a WiFi bridge to use with the Bolt. That will trick the Bolt into thinking it is a wired ethernet connection and allow it to communicate with the Mini.


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## EchoBravo (Apr 20, 2002)

Thanks for the quick replies.

I just bought this:

Netgear WNCE2001 Universal WiFi Internet Adapter

I have time to cancel it if you all tell me it won't work.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

It worked for me to get a very good wifi signal to my Roamio from my Apple router. Netflix was rock solid. But I had my mini connected to Roamio is MoCA so not quite the same comparison. Now I have an Xb3 modem so MoCA and Internet connect to mini from the coax.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

EchoBravo said:


> Thanks for the quick replies.
> 
> I just bought this:
> 
> ...


It will work. The UI sucks. Not really powerful. Yesterday I received my Mini v2. It will get moved next door after I get it set up. I have it connected to the same TV and same WUMC710 as my Mini v1. I might get a fan for these boxes. They get pretty warm.

Yes, I can use both Mini boxes at the same time without problems to a Roamio basic. However I get blocking errors if I play a recording on one and use live TV on the other. I speculate the Roamio doesn't have the power for that load.

If you get stuck I can find my WNCE2001 and get its settings. Note that a router reboot may be needed. You will need to set the security, etc. on a PC.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> Yes, I can use both Mini boxes at the same time without problems to a Roamio basic. However I get blocking errors if I play a recording on one and use live TV on the other. I speculate the Roamio doesn't have the power for that load.


My money would be on the wireless bandwidth causing the blocking(?). I just fired-up 3 streams plus Live TV from 4 Minis connected to our basic Roamio, all devices wired, and none are exhibiting any noticeable lag or visual degradation, and the 30-second skip, replay, and FF/RW are all working normally. (Granted, I haven't accounted for a bitrate match to whatever content you were playing, but I *did* try to use our highest bitrate recordings, ~11-12Mbps per the KMTTG listing.)


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> My money would be on the wireless bandwidth causing the blocking(?). I just fired-up 3 streams plus Live TV from 4 Minis connected to our basic Roamio, all devices wired, and none are exhibiting any noticeable lag or visual degradation, and the 30-second skip, replay, and FF/RW are all working normally. (Granted, I haven't accounted for a bitrate match to whatever content you were playing, but I *did* try to use our highest bitrate recordings, ~11-12Mbps per the KMTTG listing.)


Very possible it's the Linksys as the bottle neck. Or the ASUS on the Roamio. Anyhow, I don't expect to run into the problem in normal use. I'm getting another Linksys and will see how that works. All my content was HD 1080i 5.1.


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## dlneal (Nov 5, 2004)

Mine works great with a MOCA network adapter from Actiontec. Also, the one I purchased is also a WiFi network extender, which I needed.

http://www.actiontec.com/305.html


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Do you have a coax outlet at both locations? If so, then just move the Bolt to the bedroom and connect it to the internet with the ethernet connection, and then just use MoCA for communication between the Bolt and the Mini. They both have MoCA built in and the Bolt will be able to bridge the ethernet and MoCA connection to provide internet to the Mini.


Alternatively, if you want to keep the BOLT where it is (4K TV, p'raps?, or just want the faster UI), you could use a separate MoCA adapter elsewhere (e.g. at your modem/router) to create your MoCA network, to which your BOLT could connect via its coax line. An additional benefit of this setup would be that you could bridge from your MoCA-connected BOLT to other Ethernet devices via the BOLT's Ethernet port -- including attaching a network switch to the BOLT to provide wired Ethernet access to multiple devices co-located with the BOLT. (The Mini doesn't have this bridging capability.)

If you have the budget, you could even spring for one of the *new MoCA 2.0 adapters*, to maximize your network speed to your MoCA-connected BOLT.



EchoBravo said:


> Am I wrong in guessing both devices need to be on the same *kind* of connection? Is my current setup simply undoable?


Just to be clear, it's completely OK and officially supported for some devices to be connected via Ethernet and others via MoCA. TiVo's requirement is that any devices that will be involved in streaming TiVo content (i.e. recorded or live TV) have a wired network connection, Ethernet *or* MoCA.


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## EchoBravo (Apr 20, 2002)

Original poster here. 

48+ hours after starting the process, my TiVo mini is up and running. The Netgear wireless to Ethernet adapter works like a charm. 

Thanks everyone for your info and patience.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

That may work, but you really should be using wired connections. If you don't have coax where the Mini is, you could just use a MoCA adapter to bridge between the MoCA and Ethernet networks.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

EchoBravo said:


> Original poster here.
> 
> 48+ hours after starting the process, my TiVo mini is up and running. The Netgear wireless to Ethernet adapter works like a charm.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your info and patience.


Thanks for providing feedback and closure on your issue.

As an aside, I'd be interested in the adapter's performance streaming a live TV feed of a game off ESPN HD. (I expect that's probably one of the higher bandwidth streams possible off a TiVo.) Any picture pixelization or navigation complaints?


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## EchoBravo (Apr 20, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> As an aside, I'd be interested in the adapter's performance streaming a live TV feed of a game off ESPN HD. (I expect that's probably one of the higher bandwidth streams possible off a TiVo.) Any picture pixelization or navigation complaints?


So it's a month later. The BOLT performs flawlessly. As someone who has used TiVo since the old Philips Series One, I'm amazed at its speed and bulletproof operation. The mini, notsomuch.

I'm never on ESPN, but I can watch hockey on the NHL Network... Sometimes. Seems a good 60% of the time, I get the *Network Too Slow* error and can't watch live TV or recorded programs. My network is 50+ down / 7 up, so it's not really a network problem and a reboot fixes this about half the time.

My wife and son are super-annoyed. I'm just perplexed.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

The Mini would work perfectly if your Bolt was hard wired (via Moca or otherwise).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

EchoBravo said:


> So it's a month later. The BOLT performs flawlessly. As someone who has used TiVo since the old Philips Series One, I'm amazed at its speed and bulletproof operation. The mini, notsomuch.
> 
> I'm never on ESPN, but I can watch hockey on the NHL Network... Sometimes. Seems a good 60% of the time, I get the *Network Too Slow* error and can't watch live TV or recorded programs. My network is 50+ down / 7 up, so it's not really a network problem and a reboot fixes this about half the time.
> 
> My wife and son are super-annoyed. I'm just perplexed.





mdavej said:


> The Mini would work perfectly if your Bolt was hard wired (via Moca or otherwise).


^^^ What mdavej said. ^^^ This **IS** a network problem.

See also the very first sentence made in reply to your original post:


JoeKustra said:


> Hate to tell you, but your internet speed has 0% affect on the Bolt to Mini communication.


That is, it's a network problem that has nothing to do with the rate of your Internet connection. The issue is the network bandwidth available between your BOLT and Mini -- as your problems arise only when trying to stream TiVo-recorded or Live TV content on the Mini. Multi-Room Streaming (MRS) between the TiVo devices requires much more bandwidth than Netflix, Amazon, etc. streaming, owing to digital *cable* content mostly still being broadcast in MPEG2 format, rather than MPEG4.

The *recommended solution* to your problem was covered in *post#11, above*. (Install a MoCA adapter to create a MoCA network on your coax lines.) Wife's and son's super-annoyance would subside to normal levels.

A *possibly workable alternative*, though not as reliable, was put forward by PSU_Sudzi in *post#6, above*. (That is, link BOLT and Mini via MoCA, but bridge this MoCA segment to your router via wireless.) See also *my recent post, here*, describing this workaround in a bit more detail, and *this blog post* describing someone else's use of a WNCE2001 adapter with a network switch to bridge multiple devices. The *main drawback* of this solution is that your Mini would need to be connected via coax/MoCA (noting that it hasn't been stated that a coax outlet is available to the Mini), and both the Mini's and the BOLT's Internet streaming would compete for the wireless bandwidth of the WNCE2001 adapter; it's an improvement from your current setup, but not as reliable as connecting the BOLT via MoCA.

I cannot stress enough that you should opt for the recommended solution.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> ^^^ What mdavej said. ^^^ This **IS** a network problem.
> 
> See also the very first sentence made in reply to your original post:
> 
> ...


EchoBravo is saying that their network is faster than their 50/7 internet speed. However, that doesn't really mean much. Consistent bandwidth is required for the TiVo Mini, and just because a Speedtest comes out high doesn't mean that the network can reliably deliver those speeds for a TiVo Mini to be streaming MPEG-2 video.

However, you are correct in saying that the Mini needs to be connected via Ethernet or MoCA, not wireless. Wireless and Powerline are inherently unreliable for a TiVo Mini.

The DirecTV, DISH, and U-Verse boxes that support wireless are not only using MPEG-4, but they have to have hardware/software that makes them more tolerant of bandwidth fluctuations, and often use dedicated wireless hardware that's more or less separate from the rest of the network.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Bigg said:


> EchoBravo is saying that their network is faster than their 50/7 internet speed. However, that doesn't really mean much. Consistent bandwidth is required for the TiVo Mini, and just because a Speedtest comes out high doesn't mean that the network can reliably deliver those speeds for a TiVo Mini to be streaming MPEG-2 video.


We're definitely interpreting the OP's comment differently. I'm reading their statement as disregarding any possibility that it's a network issue because their Internet speed is 50/7; they seem to not even be considering their LAN speeds. Internet speed, Internet *connectivity* even, is meaningless when it comes to streaming between a host DVR and a Mini, so the 50/7 report is irrelevant. ALL that matters in MRS is LAN speeds (putting aside all the annoying dialogs that'll pop up in the menus if you lose Internet connectivity).

Witness...


EchoBravo said:


> Seems a good 60% of the time, I get the *Network Too Slow* error and can't watch live TV or recorded programs. My network is 50+ down / 7 up, so it's not really a network problem and a reboot fixes this about half the time. ... I'm just perplexed.


This comment indicates no recognition that "network too slow" in the case of MRS is talking about the LAN. Though I have no idea why a reboot would fix anything in the OP's case. (edit: I'm guessing that the reboot is of their router or wireless bridge.)



> However, you are correct in saying that the Mini needs to be connected via Ethernet or MoCA, not wireless. Wireless and Powerline are inherently unreliable for a TiVo Mini.


I was correct on the previous point, actually ; and, as for this point, I never said the connection "needed" to be wired.

The Mini doesn't need to have a wired connection, unless you're talking about getting support from TiVo. Plenty of people have been able to setup wireless bridges or Powerline networks to make a Mini connection. Plenty of people are doing it; I just wouldn't recommend it -- and I'd personally do just about anything I could to avoid that bridge.



> The DirecTV, DISH, and U-Verse boxes that support wireless are not only using MPEG-4, but they have to have hardware/software that makes them more tolerant of bandwidth fluctuations, and often use dedicated wireless hardware that's more or less separate from the rest of the network.


Yep; good info. (I figured any details on MPEG2 vs MPEG4 and why other providers could do things like having wireless clients would likely be TMI.)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

EchoBravo said:


> My network *is* 50+ down / 7 up, so it's not really a network problem and a reboot fixes this about half the time.


Now if the OP meant to say that they've *tested* their wireless bridge and have *measured* that link to be 50/7, that'd be a different thing. I'd be inclined to stress that they need to use LAN speed testing tools to better evaluate what speeds the link could sustain, but I'd still be of the opinion that they should value their time more and should go with the wired recommendations from the previous post.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> We're definitely interpreting the OP's comment differently. I'm reading their statement as disregarding any possibility that it's a network issue because their Internet speed is 50/7; they seem to not even be considering their LAN speeds. Internet speed, Internet *connectivity* even, is meaningless when it comes to streaming between a host DVR and a Mini, so the 50/7 report is irrelevant. ALL that matters in MRS is LAN speeds (putting aside all the annoying dialogs that'll pop up in the menus if you lose Internet connectivity).


Correct. I think the OP is saying that because their Wifi can pump out 50/7, that it must be enough bandwidth for the TiVo Mini, which is semi-logical, but doesn't account for the consistent, reliable bandwidth required for the TiVo Mini.



> Witness...
> ​This comment indicates no recognition that "network too slow" in the case of MRS is talking about the LAN. Though I have no idea why a reboot would fix anything in the OP's case. (edit: I'm guessing that the reboot is of their router or wireless bridge.)


It's random. So restarting a new stream might work for a few minutes, or it might not.



> I was correct on the previous point, actually ; and, as for this point, I never said the connection "needed" to be wired.
> 
> The Mini doesn't need to have a wired connection, unless you're talking about getting support from TiVo. Plenty of people have been able to setup wireless bridges or Powerline networks to make a Mini connection. Plenty of people are doing it; I just wouldn't recommend it -- and I'd personally do just about anything I could to avoid that bridge.


OK, fair enough. I got one working on a PowerLine bridge, just for the heck of it, but I returned it back to MoCA, as I knew that it wasn't a good way to do things.



> Yep; good info. (I figured any details on MPEG2 vs MPEG4 and why other providers could do things like having wireless clients would likely be TMI.)


Yeah, it could be confusing, but it could also explain why the TiVo Minis seem mysteriously way more sensitive than the stuff that DirecTV/AT&T/Frontier are pushing out.



krkaufman said:


> Now if the OP meant to say that they've *tested* their wireless bridge and have *measured* that link to be 50/7, that'd be a different thing. I'd be inclined to stress that they need to use LAN speed testing tools to better evaluate what speeds the link could sustain, but I'd still be of the opinion that they should value their time more and should go with the wired recommendations from the previous post.


Agreed. The speed tests don't validate that the wireless is _stable_ and _consistent_ enough for the TiVo Mini to work, just that it has a lot of bandwidth available.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Bigg said:


> Correct. I think the OP is saying that because their Wifi can pump out 50/7, that it must be enough bandwidth for the TiVo Mini, which is semi-logical, but doesn't account for the consistent, reliable bandwidth required for the TiVo Mini.


Agreed, except they didn't clearly indicate that they were referring to speeds as tested via wireless, versus what they believe their Internet speeds should be or as tested via a wired device.



> OK, fair enough. I got one working on a PowerLine bridge, just for the heck of it, but I returned it back to MoCA, as I knew that it wasn't a good way to do things.


Same page. Also, I haven't seen any reports from the wireless bridge crowd discussing how many wireless-bridged Minis they can use simultaneously without any effect on the experience.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Also, I haven't seen any reports from the wireless bridge crowd discussing how many wireless-bridged Minis they can use simultaneously without any effect on the experience.


Important difference in this case is the OP's Bolt is wifi, but Mini is wired. Not only does one Mini work poorly with a wifi Bolt, more than one simultaneously would be absolutely terrible.

Bottom line. Bolt via wifi with any number of Minis is a bad idea. And it's so simple to put the Bolt on Moca. I don't understand the resistance.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> Also, I haven't seen any reports from the wireless bridge crowd discussing how many wireless-bridged Minis they can use simultaneously without any effect on the experience.


Wired to wireless on basic Roamio. One v1 Mini next door and one Mini v2 in lower floor kitchen. Both used at the same time without issues. Both using a WUMC710 adapter. Both watching 1080i programs. I only have two.

The built-in wireless of a Roamio isn't so good. I could never get it to work with a Mini.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

The Roamio and Bolt will not work with a Mini at all over their internal Wifi adapters, because TiVo programmed them not to. Using a bridge tricks them into thinking they are on ethernet, just like MoCA adapters, or Powerline, or anything else.


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## aspexil (Oct 16, 2015)

Bigg said:


> The Roamio and Bolt will not work with a Mini at all over their internal Wifi adapters, because TiVo programmed them not to. Using a bridge tricks them into thinking they are on ethernet, just like MoCA adapters, or Powerline, or anything else.


That is my setup. WUMC710 for the Tivo Bolt and Samsung TV then another WUMC710 in the basement with the Tivo Mini.

Works like a champ and my wife^h^h^h^h boss is happy!

I also have a Netgear X8 router. Expensive but the bandwidth internally is unreal. Has also improved our speed to the outside Internet.


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## Richard Barg (Feb 5, 2017)

I have an Orbi 40 which has a main router and satellite router, both w/Ethernet ports. Only the Main router plugs into cable modem. Will Satellite Ethernet Router work with the Mini? Does the mini use bandwidth when it is not in use?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Richard Barg said:


> Does the mini use bandwidth when it is not in use?


A very very small amount. Sort of a keep-alive every few minutes. I don't know what it does, but I see the activity in my router's log.


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## Richard Barg (Feb 5, 2017)

Thanks, that answers my 2nd question. Will Satellite Ethernet Router on ORBI 40 work with the Mini?


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