# New HR10 is a...wait for it...HR20. DTV says no HR10



## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

I sort of half expected this.

Long story short, SD Tivo dies, DTV offers to replace with a HR10-250 for just S&H, I agree. Free HR10...who could disagree with that?

Installation day turns out to be the first day the HR20 is available here. I end up with the first HR20 they've ever seen. DTV says "We don't do HR10's anymore". I say, "That was not our agreement" (among other things). I had to explain the difference between "Tivo service" and the HR20's "DVR service" three times before I stopped hearing "but it has Tivo in it, it's an improvement, and it's a lot better than the HR10". They might have a point on the last two, but I'm skeptical about that.

But OK, I waited for the guy, he doesn't have, can't get, or won't get an HR10 for me, so I'll give it a try. I will try to give it a fair and unbiased test drive, but that's like trying to give a fair and unbiased try to an ugly new girlfriend if you're currently dating Jennifer Biels, or whatever her name is. But maybe the ugly new girl has "hidden talent". We'll see.

The sidebar is he can't install the AT9 for whatever reason (I am now tripping over it every time I navigate to my kitchen). Plus, OTA isn't even activated (anyone know when?). Bottom line, no locals in HD by either path, with this current arrangement.

So, I think I may have enough ammo to call retention and complain nicely that this was not what I had in mind. But, I will give the HR20 a test drive for a couple of days first...who knows, I might even like it, and my name isn't even Mikey.

Stay tuned, as I can probably put a spin on this from the POV of someone who has a HR10 sitting directly next to a HR20, and has a love affair with Tivo. Maybe that's not that unique. But like I said, I will do my best to be objective. And while HR20 stuff is not really kosher on this forum, I guess if I limit discussion to comparison to HR10 that would make it valid. Moderators can certainly chastise me if they see things differently, and I'm on board with that, too.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Wha? So they are forcing you to get a HR20, but not upgrading your dish for you?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

TyroneShoes, do they have HR10's at local stores in your area. If they do, tell DTV you are going to buy one of them and you want a full credit on your bill for it.

BB and CC still have HR10's on their shelves here and that is pretty much what I did with DTV when I got my HR10 a few months ago. They were going to give me one but rather than have it delivered, I got it at CC and they creditted my account.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

vertigo235 said:


> Wha? So they are forcing you to get a HR20, but not upgrading your dish for you?


That's about the size of it. To be fair, they are trying to comply. I got to talk to a DVR specialist because the DVR service wasn't turned on when the tech called it in earlier, and he said he'd send someone to install the dish, but I don't think that will be necessary. It took 3 hits to turn on programming earlier, too. 1 for each package.

If this is the future of DTV, sell all stock immediately. This thing is the most user-hostile PVR ever. Not only is this girl ugly, she's mean, and she's disagreeable, and she won't put out. If DTV isn't in better shape by the time my HR10's are dead, I would put them as a last resort on my list of content vendors.

I would think if you are going to make a risky move like dumping Tivo, you (DTV) must be pretty confident about the replacement. I've owned 8 PVRs and am familiar with about 15 different PVRs of all varieties, but I've never seen anything as excruciatingly difficult to use or as unwilling to do what you might expect as this little abortion. Even the wacky unstable DISH PVRs at least had a decent interface. This makes the Scientific-Atlanta cable DVRs seem like a dream by comparison.

Oh, wait...I promised to give it a fair trial, so disregard everything I just said, and I'll dive in for some more fun before I pass judgment. I really don't want to sound like a troll or a Tivo fanboy, but this POS makes that difficult (shoot! I just did it again). Believe me, I'm really holding back.


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## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> BB and CC still have HR10's on their shelves here...


I was in my local BB (Elk Grove, CA) a couple of weeks ago, and there must have been 12-15 HR10s in boxes in the D* aisle -- this past weekend, I was in there again, and there were NONE. Did they sell them all, or pull them away from view?? Still had one on display, but the placard with the pricing information etc. wasn't there.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

They probably just pulled them from view and put them in the back.

DirecTV has sent memos to major retailers instructing them to remove DirecTivo units on display.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

> I had to explain the difference between "Tivo service" and the HR20's "DVR service"


There is no difference as far as DTV is concerned. The term "Tivo service" with regards to DTivos ended when DTV took over the service from Tivo. It has been called "DVR service" ever since.


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## panic 66 (Apr 5, 2004)

I just received a replacement HR10-250 yesterday from D*. The hard drive on my 3 yr old unit just died. When I asked if I could get an HR20 instead they told they were not available in my area yet. With Earl's 6.3 anouncement I am now glad that they did not give me the HR20 since I can receive all my locals OTA. My replacement unit was shipped from El Segundo, CA and seems to be brand new.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> They probably just pulled them from view and put them in the back.
> 
> DirecTV has sent memos to major retailers instructing them to remove DirecTivo units on display.


Well, they aren't complying in the Maryland area. Just saw a couple in CC last night and a bunch in BB the other day. (Also saw some in CC in Western PA over the weekend.)


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## Frank_M (Sep 9, 2001)

I too just got a replacement HR10-250 from the protection plan yesterday. I specifically said I would ONLY accept a HR10-250. So Directv still has them.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

> Well, they aren't complying in the Maryland area. Just saw a couple in CC last night and a bunch in BB the other day. (Also saw some in CC in Western PA over the weekend.)


Well, wouldn't make much sense to remove them until they have something to put in their place. Best Buy currently has an exclusive on the HR20; expect those HR10s in CC to be swapped out with HR20s next month with the BB exclusive expires.


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## DTSDude (May 24, 2006)

It'd be funny to see TiVo sue D* over calling their other DVR's "TiVo's" or saying the "TiVo" is in there. Heck Google just put in a suit over Websters Dictionary trying to put Google in as a generic search term.

And if you think the HR20 is bad you should see the interface on Comcasts stock DTHD DVR. I keep having to give up on scheduling things that aren't running that day because it's impossible to find the listing. *Sigh, sorry for the OT rant.


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## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

Tyrone: From your previous posts, I certainly value your opinion. Having said that, I feel exactly like you do about the HR20 and could not have said it better.

And for that reason, I spent a week of hard effort figuring out how to replace my Hard drive with a hacked one so I could put the original HD in my desk for safe keeping. As if that wasnt enough, I bought a back up HR10-250 back when the price was reduced.

Life is too precious to live with something you don't like, figure out how to get your old girlfriend back and give up on her ugly step sister.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

What bothers me is that I've heard several 'tech saavy' people say that the HR20 is a real bugger to use, and they haven't really liked it. Granted, it's very early on but ...that's not the kinda thing you wanna hear about the latest and greatest.

In fact, I've been doing some reading on the other forum, and you don't really see anybody exclaiming "yowza....this thing is great! I love it!"

Makes me wanna run out to BB or CC and buy a couple HR10's to put in my closet.


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## VicF (Sep 8, 2004)

I very recently got a replacement HR10-250 from my BB exteded warranty. D* tried to make it leased for $5 per month and extend my contract 2 YEARS ! I spent a couple hours and 3 phone calls to get it straight and I am still waiting for written confirmation of contract end date.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

mr.unnatural said:


> There is no difference as far as DTV is concerned. The term "Tivo service" with regards to DTivos ended when DTV took over the service from Tivo. It has been called "DVR service" ever since.


Puhleeze!

A road pizza by any other name is still a road pizza.

They may have a public face that embraces the position you state, but in reality, those in the know at DTV know better, and they know that their HR20 DVR service is not the same as the Tivo experience. They keep telling themselves that it is the same over and over like a mantra, but they can't escape the fact, even in their own minds, that it just isn't. What is startling is how many folks at DTV are NOT in the know. There seems to be an active effort to get the underlings at DTV, as well as the customers, to choke down the Kool-Aid.


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## Flynn (Aug 18, 2006)

I think they are about done shipping HR10s...in fact, I wonder if everyone who has one coming from them now gets the HR20.

Long story short: I ordered (and I mean ORDERED) an HR10-250, I received a HR20. Then they tried to make it right and ended up shipping me a....R10. Wheeee.

So I called retention and acted like someone died, and they told me if I can go buy it at CC, then do so and they'd credit me the price when I activated the unit. The local CC in my area only had a couple left. I'd say D* is in full phaseout mode.


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## chris_h (Dec 17, 2003)

coachO said:
 

> Tyrone: From your previous posts, I certainly value your opinion.


Ditto. This could not have happened to a nicer guy. You are an asset to this forum. You have a knack for explaining technical things in a way easily understood by those with less technical knowledge. I remember several threads where when you showed up I though "Good, now we can end all this silly speculaiton, the experts have arrived." Thanks.

Good luck getting another HR10. Have you tried ebay? That is where I got my last one.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

I am sincerely shocked by that, as I am constantly reeling from an apparently widely-held opinion quite different than that, but thank you very much.

And I really intended to use this opportunity (getting an HR20 shoved into me) as an chance to provide a fair comparison to the HR10, but you know what guys? I just can't do it...at least not fairly. I really detest this thing. So, lump me in with the haters, I'm afraid. At least I now have a reason. I'll try to keep the bashing to a minimum.

Someone whose opinion I value here greatly is Earl, and I figured that if he was so positive and actually gave up an HR10 for one of these, that meant that this box was a contender, and maybe I could accept it too. I was genuinely happy for DTV that they might have met the challenge, but now I'm just sad. And I still value Earl's opinion, I just don't share it.

But I told retention this was a deal-breaker. That I would not have it on my account, even for free. They say I have a "98% chance" of getting a swap for a HR10 refurb, which is great.

Flynn and others called it...this is definitely the beginning of the end for the HR10. The wheels are turning, and much in the same direction, away from the HR10. They had to request the HR10 swap manually, as the system would just automatically send me another HR20. So Tivo lovers are officially in the wilderness, at least until the S3 and cable versions arrive. But for those folks, DTV will not be a real option, apparently. Time will tell.


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## rickaren (Oct 30, 2002)

Strange that D* has let so many down with their new DVR, and most that up-graded to the new DISH VIP 622 DVR are very pleased. (myself included) *What is going on here? * The main reason I bought the HR10-250 was to use it till D* had their new DVR available and I could trade it in for a possible free up-grade. I have always wanted the latest and best but I too have not seen anyone raving about the HR20, yet. (these are not only past Tivo customers as one might expect) Since I have both D* & E* HD and their DVRs, it looks like I may already have the best NOW. After all the wait for DirecTV to give us their greatest, what a disappointment!


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

rickaren said:


> Strange that D* has let so many down with their new DVR, and most that up-graded to the new DISH VIP 622 DVR are very pleased. (myself included) *What is going on here? *


DirecTV isn't the same company they were before the Murdock aquisition. Originally their emphasis was on quality service, a quality product and offering costumers a choice. These days they seem to see themselves as offering a commodity product at the lowest possible cost (where "cost" is really cost to Murdock, not to DirecTV).


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

rickaren said:


> Strange that D* has let so many down with their new DVR, and most that up-graded to the new DISH VIP 622 DVR are very pleased. (myself included)...Since I have both D* & E* HD and their DVRs, it looks like I may already have the best NOW. After all the wait for DirecTV to give us their greatest, what a disappointment!


As someone quite familiar with DISH PVRs, I would say that comparitively speaking, the DISH PVR interface will run rings around the DVR+ (even though Tivo runs rings around anything from DISH). Without Tivo, DISH becomes a very serious, if flawed, contender for top vendor. But DISH PVRs also have a history of flakiness and unreliability, although that might not apply to the new models. If the DVR+ turns out to be less reliable than even the DISH PVRs, DTV sinks to the very bottom of the list. What a disappointment, indeed.

Here's one more point of comparison. The DVR+ will feed both a HD and a SD display at the same time, and the HR10 will not. While on the surface that sounds like a plus in the DVR+ corner, it really just doesn't work out that way.

If you want the aspect ratio and stretch (for SD) to be normal on the HD set, you have to put up with a squeezed version on the SD set, and if you want HD to be properly LB-ed on the SD set, you end up with a stretched version on the HD set. I could find no option that would let you have an unstretched or unsqueezed picture on both sets at the same time.

Practically speaking, that means you really can't use the SD set at the same time as the HD set, at least the way people normally would want to. Which ends up being zero improvement over the HR10. Advantage--DVR+? Denied!


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## andbye (Feb 25, 2002)

Certainly there are two sides to this coin. In other threads and other forums posts indicate that D* is providing HR10-250s to subs who want and/or have ordered the HR20-700 saying that the HR20 is not yet available in their area.

HR20-700 (install sked for Sep 13) ?
2 HR10-250s on 57in Toshiba RPTV
1 R10 and 1 older Dtivo SD DVR
1 R15 not connected


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## Flynn (Aug 18, 2006)

andbye said:


> Certainly there are two sides to this coin. In other threads and other forums posts indicate that D* is providing HR10-250s to subs who want and/or have ordered the HR20-700 saying that the HR20 is not yet available in their area.


I can only relate the experience of myself (Portland, OR), and a friend (Irvine, CA), and for both of us it was a crapshoot trying to get one. D* told me it was a on its way...the installer (Ironwood) told me on the phone it was a HR10 coming. The installer who arrived with the HR20 told me they are in the process of getting as many 5LNBs and HR20s installed when they go out to houses as possible. They don't want to come out twice for no good reason. Yeah, the brand of DVR I personally want is *NOT* a good reason in their opinion. Retention did tell me that they are trying not to deploy the HR20 in markets with no sat locals like mine until the OTA on the unit is enabled. Not great execution on that though.

D* (even retention, which tried to hook me up as many times as possible) cannot seem to ensure what they pull from the warehouse shelf will be the HR10. If you really want one, my personal opinion is to twist retention's arm into you buying it and them crediting the purchase amount to you, as I did.

Given how this seems to be going, I'm pretty surprised they are bothering to update the software on the HR10. Maybe they want to keep people happy enough with them to not swamp the installers with upgrade orders?


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

Flynn said:


> I think they are about done shipping HR10s...in fact, I wonder if everyone who has one coming from them now gets the HR20.
> 
> Long story short: I ordered (and I mean ORDERED) an HR10-250, I received a HR20. Then they tried to make it right and ended up shipping me a....R10. Wheeee.
> 
> So I called retention and acted like someone died, and they told me if I can go buy it at CC, then do so and they'd credit me the price when I activated the unit. The local CC in my area only had a couple left. I'd say D* is in full phaseout mode.


I really wish this was true, currently waiting for my 4th HR10 to replace the one that went belly up.

We have the locals over D* in our area, I tried to get then to send me the new HR20 instead but was not able to talk them into it. So now I have to setup the HR10 for the 4th time and lose all my programming.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

andbye said:


> Certainly there are two sides to this coin. In other threads and other forums posts indicate that D* is providing HR10-250s to subs who want and/or have ordered the HR20-700 saying that the HR20 is not yet available in their area...


Which is why I felt confident of success in brokering a deal for an HR10 (and I was very specific, as was retention, that we were talking HR10 and only HR10). At the time the deal was made, no one except CA had them. By the time the installer showed up, the wheels had turned to the point where the HR10 had nearly been genocided out of existence.

The pending 6.3 upgrade right now could not be a more ironically badly-timed release (from the POV of DTV), seeing as how DTV is trying to pretend the HR10 no longer exists. DTV is really starting to look like the gang that couldn't shoot straight.


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## Markman07 (Jul 18, 2001)

Well according DBSTALK it appears the HR20-700 is being recalled. So if that is true not good for Directv (at least in the short-term)


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

Markman07 said:


> Well according DBSTALK it appears the HR20-700 is being recalled. So if that is true not good for Directv (at least in the short-term)


There is a post midway down that thread by Earl stating there is no recall of the units.

Still trying to talk D* into taking this HR10 back and sending me a HR20. Really tired of having to reset my auto record list and losing all the kids recorded shows.


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## Hersheytx (Feb 15, 2003)

TyroneShoes said:


> Here's one more point of comparison. The DVR+ will feed both a HD and a SD display at the same time, and the HR10 will not. While on the surface that sounds like a plus in the DVR+ corner, it really just doesn't work out that way.
> 
> If you want the aspect ratio and stretch (for SD) to be normal on the HD set, you have to put up with a squeezed version on the SD set, and if you want HD to be properly LB-ed on the SD set, you end up with a stretched version on the HD set. I could find no option that would let you have an unstretched or unsqueezed picture on both sets at the same time.
> 
> Practically speaking, that means you really can't use the SD set at the same time as the HD set, at least the way people normally would want to. Which ends up being zero improvement over the HR10. Advantage--DVR+? Denied!


I have always used my HD DVR for HD and my Non HD TIVOS for all the other channels. The HD DVR does not have enough room on its hard drive to record everything I want. So changing of the screen resolution is a no biggie for me. Just get more DVRs. If you can a Directivo.


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