# 2 Weeks of Tivo, Here's what were missing.



## Roveer (May 28, 2003)

So I got this great idea (which starts out slow, then turns into a burning desire and doesn't end until I've got every tool pulled into the house and I've made a mess in just about every room). Get the picture.

After I got into a huge fight with Verizon I got on a kick to send them back all of their STB's and use a Tivo Roamio and Mini's to replace all 7 STB's. Saving around 50 bucks a month. I bought a Roamio with loyalty lifetime svc for 500 bucks literally with rolled change (so to me, no real sunk cost). Then I grabbed 3 mini's with BB gift cards and 1 additional mini with amex gift points. Total real cash spent so far: 90 bucks. I now have 5 TV's of Tivo and need 2 additional mini's running on a cable card for 4.99 a month. To me that's a pretty big coup.

So far I've only set up the Roamio and set it lose on the family. I was surprised that they've picked it up pretty quickly. They can at least watch TV with it so I'm pretty happy. I did switch the guide over to "grid" as I really never like the traditional Tivo guide and really wanted it to look as close to what Verizon was providing.

So after about 2 weeks here is a very short list of what I think Tivo should add to improve their device.

1. Find a way, app etc to re-integrate FIOS caller ID on Tivo. This is something that my wife was not happy about losing. I would think it's just a matter of figuring it out and putting it into the code. Would be a great feature enhancement. Have to imagine there are a huge number of FIOS users out there on Tivo.

2. This is the biggie. Fix this one and your making the world a better place with regards to CATV. With FIOS you get all the channels as SD from 1-499 and then it starts all over again with the HD's at 500-1000. It's VERY annoying that you often wind up viewing a show in SD when it's available in HD. All the TV's in our house are now HD. FIOS handled this by providing the RED C button on the remote. If you tuned to a SD channel and there is an HD equivalent hitting RED C will take you there That's only slightly helpful. I use it, my wife never does. Very annoying to see them watching SD shows when HD is available. Especially when it's being displayed in 4:3 I often tell them to "use the entire tv" as I grab the remote and hit the RED C button. You don't want to know what they tell me. I've heard that some CATV companies will automatically switch you to the HD version if you select the SD version. I'd like to see Tivo do the exact same thing. Since my wife can only remember the 2,4,7,9,11 and lower channel numbers, I'd like Tivo to take her to 502 when she enters 2 so she can watch the channel in HD. I understand the argument about needing those for SD TV's, but Tivo know's it's outputing 1080 so any SD that has an HD should be the channel that gets tuned no matter what number is put in, 2 or 502. It's just logic and programming. Maybe you need to set up a mapping table to tell it how to respond, but it should be done. This is a big one and Tivo would be hailed as a hero as I have not really seen many STB's that do a good job of handling SD & HD programming. Like I said, I heard that CV boxes might autoswtich but I have not seen it in action. Now, it's not as easy as just remapping the entire lower end. Some channels are only available in SD and can't be remapped. Some are only available in HD so a user programmable map really is the way to go. I remember on the old SA boxes (pre HD) they would allow mapping so you could map a channel to another channel. This is basically what needs to happen on Tivo.

3. This one is really no big deal, but since I'm telling Tivo how they should fix their stuff (and of course they are going to get right one this! ) I might as well add this one. On the bottom guide, I'm missing that stupid red line from the FIOS STB's which tells you how far along you are in the show you are watching. Sounds kind of stupid, but it was really something I started using after a while. You flip to a new channel, see a show you are watching and want to know, is it 5 minutes in or 50? I believe on Tivo you have to look at the data (start and finish times), look at the clock and start doing math. The Bar gives you a quick visual indicator. Something Tivo should do to enhance their product...

So that's really it for only using our Roamio for 2 weeks. Can someone get back to me with a date when these items will be available? You know I'm kidding, but it would be nice if Tivo would also see the value in these enhancements and consider implementing them. Could you imagine trying to convince someone at Verizon to make something better? Ha...

Anyway, feel free to critique my enhancements. There are probably better ways of doing what I am asking, or add UI enhancements that you'd like to see. Maybe I can bring it up with Tivo Margarette when I apply for a job as UI Experience Specialist, internet division. I always find myself trying to customize and enhance things. You should see my XBMC. It barely resembles a standard XBMC but everyone in the house, including my SD afflicted Spouse uses it with ease.

Cheers, 

Roveer


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

I would blame Verizon for #2. Time Warner Cable's CableCards now map both the SD and HD version of channels to the same channel number, so if the HD version of a channel is available, you get it automatically no matter what. I'm sure Verizon could have their CableCards do the exact same thing if they wanted to.

#1 probably isn't going to happen. The only way TiVo could accomplish it would be to have a phone jack on the back of their boxes that you could plug a phone cord into so it could receive the caller ID information. You shouldn't even be paying Verizon for home phone service anyway. Buy an OBiHai VoIP box and link it to a free Google Voice account. You can even port your current number to it.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

As for #2, I've removed the SD channels from the available channel list. However, you can still manually tune to the channel. 

It didn't take long for my Luddite wife to get used to tuning to the 500 and above channels. I told her to just add 500 to the number.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

You realize, this not Tivo.

To answer your question- never. #1 is in control of the cable co. How many folks are using land-lines these days? #2 is mapped by your cablecard, so just get rid of the SD channels. #3- I don't understand, as the progress bar is available on all channels/shows.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Roveer said:


> So I got this great idea (which starts out slow, then turns into a burning desire and doesn't end until I've got every tool pulled into the house and I've made a mess in just about every room). Get the picture.
> Anyway, feel free to critique my enhancements. There are probably better ways of doing what I am asking, or add UI enhancements that you'd like to see. Maybe I can bring it up with Tivo Margarette when I apply for a job as UI Experience Specialist, internet division. I always find myself trying to customize and enhance things. You should see my XBMC. It barely resembles a standard XBMC but everyone in the house, including my SD afflicted Spouse uses it with ease.
> Cheers,
> Roveer


Not a critique, just two comments. I wouldn't expect manual channel override, like hitting 2, will every be eliminated. My 2 is SD and 502 is HD. 2 doesn't show in the guide and not even checked, but it still works. Of course TiVo could make it a "stronger" and disable 2 unless checked. The time of a program has me confused. If you hit info you see when the show started and what time it is, so that will help. Also, the ">" play key shows that and how much is buffered for that specific channel/tuner. I don't have phone service, so no clue there.


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## Roveer (May 28, 2003)

waynomo said:


> As for #2, I've removed the SD channels from the available channel list. However, you can still manually tune to the channel.
> 
> It didn't take long for my Luddite wife to get used to tuning to the 500 and above channels. I told her to just add 500 to the number.


Yeah, I hear ya. But it's never going to change in my house. Everyone still selects channel 2 and no amount of begging will ever get them to add 500 to it. Just the nature of the beast unfortunately. Something that Tivo could implement to eliminate any ambiguity between mfgrs whether it be STB's or CC's and enhance their service thus making the Tivo product more desirable.



tarheelblue32 said:


> #1 probably isn't going to happen. The only way TiVo could accomplish it would be to have a phone jack on the back of their boxes that you could plug a phone cord into so it could receive the caller ID information. You shouldn't even be paying Verizon for home phone service anyway. Get an OBiHai box and link it to a free Google Voice account. You can even port your current number to it.


I don't see it that way. All of this technology exists on the LAN with Verizon so no phone line is needed. Just have to understand the protocol that their router uses to pass CID to their STB's and implement a similar environment. It can be done.



tarheelblue32 said:


> I would blame Verizon for #2. Time Warner Cable's CableCards now map both the SD and HD version of channels to the same channel number, so if the HD version of a channel is available, you get it automatically no matter what. I'm sure Verizon could have their CableCards do the exact same thing if they wanted to.


Clearly this is a Verizon deficiency, but they are never going to improve on this, so it's an opportunity for Tivo to enhance the experience in spite of the lacking TV provider.



jrtroo said:


> You realize, this not Tivo.
> 
> To answer your question- never. #1 is in control of the cable co. How many folks are using land-lines these days? #2 is mapped by your cablecard, so just get rid of the SD channels. #3- I don't understand, as the progress bar is available on all channels/shows.


I'm well aware that this is the tivocommunityforum and not Tivo, but I have found that these outlets often provide far greater information and collaboration than any corporate driven resources. Have you been on Tivo's message boards? Not very informative. I've already received 2 pieces of invalid information from their CSR type responders. Let's face it. If you are here, you are Tivo 2.0, not 1.0. We are all operating at a higher level. Anyway, I was more looking for a collaborative exchange of information and ideas before pursuing this further with Tivo. I've already gotten additional info about the guide/channel situation. I also got told that I was in the wrong place. No worries.



JoeKustra said:


> Not a critique, just two comments. I wouldn't expect manual channel override, like hitting 2, will every be eliminated. My 2 is SD and 502 is HD. 2 doesn't show in the guide and not even checked, but it still works. Of course TiVo could make it a "stronger" and disable 2 unless checked. The time of a program has me confused. If you hit info you see when the show started and what time it is, so that will help. Also, the ">" play key shows that and how much is buffered for that specific channel/tuner. I don't have phone service, so no clue there.


I'm not trying to make hitting 2 NOT WORK, that would just lead to frustration. Some people are NEVER going to remember 502 instead of 2, so let's give them their cake and let them eat it too. Let's give a re-mapping feature that we can set up ourselves that will let us say, oh, you wanted 2, Yup, I'll give you 502 so you have wonderful HD even if you are to faulty to remember 502. That's an enhanced user experience.

Now as far as the guide goes, you said it does display the start and stop time and a clock. Ok, but the FIOS STB's have a bar that shows visually just how far along the show is. No fuss no muss. We are becoming a visual society accustomed to seeing everything in the form of 0-100% displayed in "fuel gauges". I'm just saying it would be nice if the Tivo guide provided that like most of the CATV STB's does. It stuck out pretty quickly as something that went away when we switched from STB's to Tivo.

Good exchanges, keep the conversation going.

Roveer


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Roveer said:


> I don't see it that way. All of this technology exists on the LAN with Verizon so no phone line is needed. Just have to understand the protocol that their router uses to pass CID to their STB's and implement a similar environment. It can be done.


To do it that way would require Verizon's cooperation, which will never happen. Even with Verizon's cooperation, I'm not entirely sure the TiVo hardware could do it.


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## Roveer (May 28, 2003)

tarheelblue32 said:


> To do it that way would require Verizon's cooperation, which will never happen. Even with Verizon's cooperation, I'm not entirely sure the TiVo hardware could do it.


OK, then a 24 dollar box that has wifi in it and you plug it into your phone line and it puts CID on all your TV's. That would work for FIOS and all of the voip providers that provide CID. I'd buy it in a second.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Roveer said:


> OK, then a 24 dollar box that has wifi in it and you plug it into your phone line and it puts CID on all your TV's. That would work for FIOS and all of the voip providers that provide CID. I'd buy it in a second.


Something like that would be possible. They could use the USB port on the TiVo DVRs to connect to the CID adapter. The host DVR could transfer the caller ID info out to all the Minis connected to it. I might buy one of those too if they offered it, but TiVo probably doesn't think there would be enough demand for such a device to justify the cost of developing it.


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## Number528 (Oct 6, 2011)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Something like that would be possible. They could use the USB port on the TiVo DVRs to connect to the CID adapter. The host DVR could transfer the caller ID info out to all the Minis connected to it. I might buy one of those too if they offered it, but TiVo probably doesn't think there would be enough demand for such a device to justify the cost of developing it.


Panasonic phone with talking CID. Works even if the TV is off or you are in another room.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

I want the SD and HD channels to remain separate and accessible. There are times when I specifically want to view or even record from the SD version of a channel.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

lpwcomp said:


> I want the SD and HD channels to remain separate and accessible. There are times when I specifically want to view or even record from the SD version of a channel.


I don't know why you would want to view an SD channel over an HD channel, but I can understand someone preferring to record in SD to save space. That's the only drawback to having unified channel numbers.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I don't know why you would want to view an SD channel over an HD channel, but I can understand someone preferring to record in SD to save space. That's the only drawback to having unified channel numbers.


It's mostly for recording, usually of an old B&W movie on TCM.


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## sangs (Jan 1, 2003)

Roveer said:


> 2. This is the biggie. Fix this one and your making the world a better place with regards to CATV. With FIOS you get all the channels as SD from 1-499 and then it starts all over again with the HD's at 500-1000. It's VERY annoying that you often wind up viewing a show in SD when it's available in HD. All the TV's in our house are now HD. FIOS handled this by providing the RED C button on the remote. If you tuned to a SD channel and there is an HD equivalent hitting RED C will take you there That's only slightly helpful. I use it, my wife never does. Very annoying to see them watching SD shows when HD is available. Especially when it's being displayed in 4:3 I often tell them to "use the entire tv" as I grab the remote and hit the RED C button. You don't want to know what they tell me. I've heard that some CATV companies will automatically switch you to the HD version if you select the SD version. I'd like to see Tivo do the exact same thing. Since my wife can only remember the 2,4,7,9,11 and lower channel numbers, I'd like Tivo to take her to 502 when she enters 2 so she can watch the channel in HD. I understand the argument about needing those for SD TV's, but Tivo know's it's outputing 1080 so any SD that has an HD should be the channel that gets tuned no matter what number is put in, 2 or 502. It's just logic and programming. Maybe you need to set up a mapping table to tell it how to respond, but it should be done. This is a big one and Tivo would be hailed as a hero as I have not really seen many STB's that do a good job of handling SD & HD programming. Like I said, I heard that CV boxes might autoswtich but I have not seen it in action. Now, it's not as easy as just remapping the entire lower end. Some channels are only available in SD and can't be remapped. Some are only available in HD so a user programmable map really is the way to go. I remember on the old SA boxes (pre HD) they would allow mapping so you could map a channel to another channel. This is basically what needs to happen on Tivo.


The new FiOS software on their standalone DVRs and STBs does this now. You can choose in the settings to have SD channels automatically mapped to the HD channels. So if you enter 2 it automatically goes to 502. You can also choose NOT to do this - so basically you can have your cake and eat it too.  However, it is not available on the FiOS Quantum DVRs and Clients yet. Supposed to be coming to those in January.


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## sangs (Jan 1, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> It's mostly for recording, usually of an old B&W movie on TCM.


Switch to FiOS and you won't have that problem as TCM isn't offered in HD.


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## Roveer (May 28, 2003)

sangs said:


> The new FiOS software on their standalone DVRs and STBs does this now. You can choose in the settings to have SD channels automatically mapped to the HD channels. So if you enter 2 it automatically goes to 502. You can also choose NOT to do this - so basically you can have your cake and eat it too.  However, it is not available on the FiOS Quantum DVRs and Clients yet. Supposed to be coming to those in January.


OH MY GAWD. I just spent 10 minutes digging through the menu's to find this option and now it's turned on. Now I'm really going to miss this on Tivo. I'm shocked to see that Verizon actually provided this useful feature. Lately all it's been is screen savers and advertising.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

sangs said:


> Switch to FiOS and you won't have that problem as TCM isn't offered in HD.


Not an option here. Besides, there are some movies on TCM that I _*do*_ want in HD.


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## PCurry57 (Feb 27, 2012)

Roveer said:


> Yeah, I hear ya. But it's never going to change in my house. Everyone still selects channel 2 and no amount of begging will ever get them to add 500 to it. Just the nature of the beast unfortunately. Something that Tivo could implement to eliminate any ambiguity between mfgrs whether it be STB's or CC's and enhance their service thus making the Tivo product more desirable.
> 
> I don't see it that way. All of this technology exists on the LAN with Verizon so no phone line is needed. Just have to understand the protocol that their router uses to pass CID to their STB's and implement a similar environment. It can be done.
> 
> ...


If you press and begin recording the buffer and progress bar will show you exactly where you are. I suspect FIOS also had a method of rewinding before you ruined the channel. TiVo well never be able to accommodate that.

If your to lazy to check the mini guide for the start time and do the math just stay recording then the progress bar will display exactly where you are in the program.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

PCurry57 said:


> If your to lazy to check the mini guide for the start time and do the math just stay recording then the progress bar will display exactly where you are in the program.


As he already posted, you just need to bring up the info. Concept remains the same though. Since this applies to live TV only, I really don't understand the need to know exactly where you are in a program when the live buffer is only 30 minutes long, especially when the buffer might span two programs.


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## AdamNJ (Aug 22, 2013)

#2 - remove the SD channels from your lineup / setup favorites to be only HD and SD that doesn't have hd equivalent.


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## Roveer (May 28, 2003)

Some of the recent posts are coming from folks who are more than happy to train themselves to use what Tivo has made available and to comment about people being too lazy. This means you are accepting of the current UI and are willing to adapt to it. I am like that as well. What I see from my family is that they find the UI klunky in these regards especially when they have been using something that is simpler and in some cases better. All of the feature enhancements I posted are a matter of convienence. 

One could make the argument that we are too lazy to look at the phone when it rings to see who is calling, yet all of the major STB companies now support CID on the TV screen. It's actually a nice feature. There are USB CID dongle available that could be adapted to Tivo and with some good code could display incoming calls on all Tivo's & Mini's. That would be a great feature. It's the first thing my wife commented on when I swapped my STB for Tivo. Seems like something that could be done and again, adds functionality to enable Tivo to compete with the ever evolving STB's that are currently supporting it.

You could also make the argument about being too lazy to know 502 instead of 2. That's where I've been for the past 2 years. But, as a real feature FIOS now has "auto tune to HD" in their latest software. It's a great feature and now I'm really going to miss it after my transition to Tivo is complete. 

As far as the guide goes, Again, too lazy to look at start time/stop time and figure out where you are. I read the replies about using the pause to see where you are in buffering but does that work when you are channel surfing? The FIOS guides give a quick, simple bar style representation of how far along the show is even when channel surfing.

Don't condemn these features because some people may be too lazy. I did that for a long time and found the only bitter one is me. They are all actually helpful and make the device more usable and likable. If they didn't, they wouldn't be showing up in STB's everywhere.

I think all 3 should be implemented on Tivo. All 3 would enhance TV Watching in my household with no regret about leaving FIOS STB's.

Roveer


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## gary712 (Apr 3, 2010)

I too have fios and got rid of all thier equipment except 1 cable card which had to be switched when I went from my premiere to my romeo plus. I don't care about CID. We all know the difference between 2 and 502. What my peeve is I don't have on demand anymore. I don't use PPV but there are times I want on demand. What do you do? Keep a seperate fios STB or live without it?


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

gary712 said:


> I too have fios and got rid of all thier equipment except 1 cable card which had to be switched when I went from my premiere to my romeo plus. I don't care about CID. We all know the difference between 2 and 502. What my peeve is I don't have on demand anymore. I don't use PPV but there are times I want on demand. What do you do? Keep a seperate fios STB or live without it?


One of the few (only?) advantage(s) to having Comcast.


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## sangs (Jan 1, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> Not an option here. Besides, there are some movies on TCM that I _*do*_ want in HD.


Sorry, I was being sarcastic. FiOS not offering TCM in HD is a big bone of contention for a lot of people in FiOS forums.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

sangs said:


> Sorry, I was being sarcastic. FiOS not offering TCM in HD is a big bone of contention for a lot of people in FiOS forums.


So access to VOD _*isn't*_ the only advantage to having Comcast.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Roveer said:


> One could make the argument that we are too lazy to look at the phone when it rings to see who is calling, yet all of the major STB companies now support CID on the TV screen. It's actually a nice feature. There are USB CID dongle available that could be adapted to Tivo and with some good code could display incoming calls on all Tivo's & Mini's. That would be a great feature. It's the first thing my wife commented on when I swapped my STB for Tivo. Seems like something that could be done and again, adds functionality to enable Tivo to compete with the ever evolving STB's that are currently supporting it.


Landline? what's that?
That's the answer as to why Tivo hasn't gone there, it's a market that's only shrinking, no need to pursue it, and the providers are only there as a perk for their home systems, as far as I remember they don't hook into POTS.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

The reality is, many of us here have untrained ourselves from the cableco "matrix". Our reality is to find content, and not deal with channels. That is part of the reason many folks find your suggestions unnecessary- a tivo, and not the cablebox, lets you stop "surfing" live TV or memorizing channel lists! I surf my now playing list and suggestions instead- content customized for my household.

Feel free to join us, or feel free to treat your box more like a cable box. The choice is yours.


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## MichaelCoffin (Nov 28, 2014)

I totally agree with the OPs request for an "easier" way to get rid of SD channels that have an HD equivalent (for both FIOS and Comcast). I just replaced 3 Tivo HDs on Comcast with 2 Roamios (and 5 minis). and I DO go into the channel list on EACH Tivo DVR and delete all of the SD channels that have an HD equivalent - the problem is there is no "guide" or "matrix" that tells me WHICH SD channels have an HD equivalent, and it's a somewhat labor-intensive task toggling each channel on or off (and then maintaining this as Comcast addds/changes/deletes their channel lineup in the future).

This really is a Comcast/FIOS requirement (heck, a simple spreadsheet showing duplicate SD/HD channels would be fine!), but if Tivo could automate this with a single configuration setting it would be SO welcome. :up:

As far as automatically redirecting a selected SD channel to its HD equivalent, that's something FIOS didn't have when I dumped them earlier this year - but that's more of a transitional thing IMO. Yes, you might be used to tuning to Channel 7 instead of 807, but once you start using the HD numbers you quickly get used to it. 

-MC


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## ShoutingMan (Jan 6, 2008)

jrtroo said:


> The reality is, many of us here have untrained ourselves from the cableco "matrix". Our reality is to find content, and not deal with channels. That is part of the reason many folks find your suggestions unnecessary- a tivo, and not the cablebox, lets you stop "surfing" live TV or memorizing channel lists! I surf my now playing list and suggestions instead- content customized for my household.
> 
> Feel free to join us, or feel free to treat your box more like a cable box. The choice is yours.


Yes. I don't know what channel numbers stations are. I do know that my Tivo has a long list of recorded shows for me to watch; a guide to surf for networks I like; and my harmony remote is programmed with favorites to enter channels for me. But I don't know channel CBS is.

As another said, Tivo should make it easier to revise the channel list (it should work with live viewing so I can see if a channel exists or is of interest as I'm reviewing them) it should also be smarter about automatically disabling all SD channels. And I'd like some smarts about not automatically enabling the garbage channels that don't actually exist, that Fios adds every month.

But to the original concern: disable all SD channels. Tell the family, sorry, the cable co disabled them and they have to learn the new channels


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

ShoutingMan said:


> But to the original concern: disable all SD channels. Tell the family, sorry, the cable co disabled them and they have to learn the new channels


You can't actually disable them, just remove them from the guide display. Explicitly entering a channel number will still tune to that channel.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

MichaelCoffin said:


> I totally agree with the OPs request for an "easier" way to get rid of SD channels that have an HD equivalent (for both FIOS and Comcast). I just replaced 3 Tivo HDs on Comcast with 2 Roamios (and 5 minis). and I DO go into the channel list on EACH Tivo DVR and delete all of the SD channels that have an HD equivalent - the problem is there is no "guide" or "matrix" that tells me WHICH SD channels have an HD equivalent, and it's a somewhat labor-intensive task toggling each channel on or off (and then maintaining this as Comcast addds/changes/deletes their channel lineup in the future).
> 
> This really is a Comcast/FIOS requirement (heck, a simple spreadsheet showing duplicate SD/HD channels would be fine!), but if Tivo could automate this with a single configuration setting it would be SO welcome. :up:
> 
> ...


Sort the Guide by channel name rather than number and remove them from there.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

MichaelCoffin said:


> I totally agree with the OPs request for an "easier" way to get rid of SD channels that have an HD equivalent (for both FIOS and Comcast). I just replaced 3 Tivo HDs on Comcast with 2 Roamios (and 5 minis). and I DO go into the channel list on EACH Tivo DVR and delete all of the SD channels that have an HD equivalent - the problem is there is no "guide" or "matrix" that tells me WHICH SD channels have an HD equivalent, and it's a somewhat labor-intensive task toggling each channel on or off (and then maintaining this as Comcast addds/changes/deletes their channel lineup in the future).
> 
> This really is a Comcast/FIOS requirement (heck, a simple spreadsheet showing duplicate SD/HD channels would be fine!), but if Tivo could automate this with a single configuration setting it would be SO welcome. :up:
> 
> ...


I hesitate to bring this up, being unused to saying anything good about them, but Time Warner Cable is in the process of remapping everyone's cable channels so that (for example) one gets HD CBS on channel 2 if they have an HD TV and SD CBS channel 2 if they have an SD TV. If you have a TiVo you also have to have a tuning adapter to make this work, but we've been living with tuning adapters on TWC for a while now. Another benefit is one is no longer tempted to record shows in eye-straining SD to save space on their hard drive.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

ej42137 said:


> I hesitate to bring this up, being unused to saying anything good about them, but Time Warner Cable is in the process of remapping everyone's cable channels so that (for example) one gets HD CBS on channel 2 if they have an HD TV and SD CBS channel 2 if they have an SD TV. If you have a TiVo you also have to have a tuning adapter to make this work


I think this used to be true, but isn't anymore. At least in my TWC market, it will still work without the tuning adapter attached, as long as the HD channel isn't on SDV. The CableCard alone can remap the HD channel to the SD channel number as long as the HD channel is available.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Having switched from DirecTV to a FiOS/TiVo combination just a few months ago, we have a slightly different view of this issue. For us it is not about HD vs SD channel numbers and duplicates, it is about channel grouping. The way channels are grouped on FiOS is bad enough (no apparent logic to it) but, since not all channels are in HD, you end up with at least two sets of every group. For example, there are a bunch of movie channels that are not in HD so looking for a movie to watch means scrolling through all the HD channels, then switching from the 800s down to the 300s to scroll through the SD ones.

DirecTV mapped all the SD channels and their HD equivalents to the same channel number, and then gave you 3 options: suppress HD dupes, suppress SD dupes, or show all channels. This put the HD version of the History Channel, for example, next to the SD version of History/2 (until they added History/2 in HD a few months ago). This greatly improves the guide efficiency and something (one of the only things) we miss from DirecTV and their in-house DVRs.


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## kokishin (Sep 9, 2014)

Diana Collins said:


> Having switched from DirecTV to a FiOS/TiVo combination just a few months ago, we have a slightly different view of this issue. For us it is not about HD vs SD channel numbers and duplicates, it is about channel grouping. The way channels are grouped on FiOS is bad enough (no apparent logic to it) but, since not all channels are in HD, you end up with at least two sets of every group. For example, there are a bunch of movie channels that are not in HD so looking for a movie to watch means scrolling through all the HD channels, then switching from the 800s down to the 300s to scroll through the SD ones.
> 
> DirecTV mapped all the SD channels and their HD equivalents to the same channel number, and then gave you 3 options: suppress HD dupes, suppress SD dupes, or show all channels. This put the HD version of the History Channel, for example, next to the SD version of History/2 (until they added History/2 in HD a few months ago). This greatly improves the guide efficiency and something (one of the only things) we miss from DirecTV and their in-house DVRs.


I was a Directv customer as well for 12 years. I switched to Comcast several months ago. I totally agree with you about the convenience of Directv's HD/SD channel mapping. Based on your FIOS description, Comcast's HD/SD channel mapping seems similar in concept.

After I switched to Comcast, I had to create a spreadsheet to show my channels of interest. I keep a hard copy in the living room and bedroom. On the spreadsheet, I split out the HD and SD channels into separate groupings. On one side of the hard copy, I list the channels numerically. On the other side of the hard copy, I list the channels alphabetically. It took some time to create but it's been very helpful.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

The training shouldn't be to press 502 instead of 2. The training should be to stop watching live TV.


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## caughey (May 26, 2007)

Arcady said:


> The training shouldn't be to press 502 instead of 2. The training should be to stop watching live TV.


I read through this whole thread wondering why no one had said this yet. It's the TCF mantra.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

Arcady said:


> The training shouldn't be to press 502 instead of 2. The training should be to stop watching live TV.


I managed to get my parents to subscribe to this way of thinking, but it took a few attempts. I have been a total failure, OTOH, of getting my dad to stop referring to shows as "taped." I don't nag, I just make sure to say, "recorded." I don't think he'll ever adjust.


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## sangs (Jan 1, 2003)

Arcady said:


> The training shouldn't be to press 502 instead of 2. The training should be to stop watching live TV.


The remap "issue" doesn't bother me, but there's a lot of live sports on 502, 504, 505 and 507 on my FiOS lineup. So the Tivo way of thinking can't always apply.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

sangs said:


> The remap "issue" doesn't bother me, but there's a lot of live sports on 502, 504, 505 and 507 on my FiOS lineup. So the Tivo way of thinking can't always apply.


Even if you're going to watch "live", you should still record them. Too easy to accidentally change the channel.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

justen_m said:


> I managed to get my parents to subscribe to this way of thinking, but it took a few attempts. I have been a total failure, OTOH, of getting my dad to stop referring to shows as "taped." I don't nag, I just make sure to say, "recorded." I don't think he'll ever adjust.


I'm a bit pedantic about this as well. I hate when TV shows talk about a surveillance "tape".

Then again, people still "dial" a phone number.


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## wickerbill (Apr 4, 2002)

If someone doesn't care enough about picture quality to make the minimal effort to tune to the HD channels instead of the SD ones then why would they care if the TiVo automatically did it for them?


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

wickerbill said:


> If someone doesn't care enough about picture quality to make the minimal effort to tune to the HD channels instead of the SD ones then why would they care if the TiVo automatically did it for them?


I have no problem with the TiVo doing it as long as I can disable it. I object to a cable co taking away the option of accessing the SD channel. It would be one thing if they get rid of the SD channel to save bandwidth. As long as its still available, I want to be able to access it.


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## tallmomof2 (May 3, 2014)

MichaelCoffin said:


> I totally agree with the OPs request for an "easier" way to get rid of SD channels that have an HD equivalent (for both FIOS and Comcast). I just replaced 3 Tivo HDs on Comcast with 2 Roamios (and 5 minis). and I DO go into the channel list on EACH Tivo DVR and delete all of the SD channels that have an HD equivalent - the problem is there is no "guide" or "matrix" that tells me WHICH SD channels have an HD equivalent, and it's a somewhat labor-intensive task toggling each channel on or off (and then maintaining this as Comcast addds/changes/deletes their channel lineup in the future).
> 
> This really is a Comcast/FIOS requirement (heck, a simple spreadsheet showing duplicate SD/HD channels would be fine!), but if Tivo could automate this with a single configuration setting it would be SO welcome. :up:
> 
> ...


+1

Unchecking the duplicate SD list is tedious and time consuming. I ended up printing out a 5 or 6 page channel listing and using a highlighter on the duplicate SD channels. *Then* I spent about 20 minutes on each of the Roamios entering the info.

Customizing the favorites for each Roamio helped immensely. One is DH's exclusively and the other is mostly the kids (almost 17 and 21).


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## kokishin (Sep 9, 2014)

Arcady said:


> The training shouldn't be to press 502 instead of 2. The training should be to stop watching live TV.


To a point. However, I prefer to watch sports live when possible.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

kokishin said:


> To a point. However, I prefer to watch sports live when possible.


You can still set up a recording and start watching it live without ever knowing the actual channel number.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

RCN has caller ID on their TiVos...

http://www.rcn.com/tivo/features/callerid/

so that could be done via some sort of USB dongle on retail units if they wanted.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> RCN has caller ID on their TiVos...
> 
> http://www.rcn.com/tivo/features/callerid/
> 
> so that could be done via some sort of USB dongle on retail units if they wanted.


It would need to be an actual device, not just a dongle. And unless such a device exists already _*and*_ the TiVo SDK supports access to USB connected device or the RCN s/w can be easily adapted, there's no way this is happening. It would be ridiculous for TiVo to devote any significant resources considering how few people would benefit.


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## kokishin (Sep 9, 2014)

Arcady said:


> The training shouldn't be to press 502 instead of 2. *The training should be to stop watching live TV*.





kokishin said:


> To a point. However, I prefer to watch sports live when possible.





Dan203 said:


> You can still set up a recording and start watching it live without ever knowing the actual channel number.


Yep, the Search function does not require channel number knowledge by the user. I was replying to the part of his post I bolded above.

Of course, one can start a recording and then start watching it almost immediately to preserve that "live" feeling.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

kokishin said:


> Yep, the Search function does not require channel number knowledge by the user. I was replying to the part of his post I bolded above.
> 
> Of course, one can start a recording and then start watching it almost immediately to preserve that "live" feeling.


You're always watching a recording anyway. The "live" buffer is a rolling 30-minute non-persistent recording.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

#1 only has appeal to landline customers. That market is shrinking. And then there's the problem of Tivo supporting this service from the various cable companies. Something tells me there is no size fits all solution. But I know my parents like the caller id on the tv screen feature on their Comcast box.

#2
not needed since you can easily just type in the HD channel number and you can include only the channels you want to include in the TV Guide. Plus how long is SD going to stay around? And who cares if other family members want to watch in HD or SD? Matter of fact encourage them to record in SD. It takes up less space. Reminds me that I should record all my kid's cartoons in SD. And maybe switch all the cartoon channels in the guide to SD versions as well. 

#3
Pretty easy to do the math on that. Press the info button and you get the current time and the show's scheduled time if you really need it. And then only needed when watching live tv which is the opposite reason most of us bought a Tivo in the first place.

Anyway your ideas aren't bad. Just seems like I could think of features that would be more universally appealing to tivo owners than the 3 you mentioned.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> You're always watching a recording anyway. The "live" buffer is a rolling 30-minute non-persistent recording.


... that is about 2 seconds behind the source (cable or OTA). And for many live events, there is an additional delay at the source so they can bleep out any naughty words or pictures.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

CharlesH said:


> ... that is about 2 seconds behind the source (cable or OTA). And for many live events, there is an additional delay at the source so they can bleep out any naughty words or pictures.


There's also propagation delay, particularly if there are one or more satellite hops involved.


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## Roveer (May 28, 2003)

Well I turned on the "auto HD" feature that came in the recent FIOS STB software upgrade and found that I still leave a lot to be desired. I found that at times I would not tune to the HD equiv and some times it would. It seemed it only did it when you directly entered a channel number (which kind of makes sense) and based on that still leaves a number of different ways to end up watching SD when HD is available. It's a more complicated issue that it first seems. For instance, no auto switch when channel surfing or guide selecting. With FIOS mixing in SD only channels along side of channels that are both SD/HD it's not possible to just ignore then 1-499 band or you'd be missing a lot of SD only content. I think I'm going to give up on this one as there are just too many variables in order to implement it correctly. I'm going back to ignoring my family watching channels in SD hand using half the available TV. Their loss. That being said, I am going to miss the RED C "automatically take you to the HD version if available". This is useful for when you are surfing on the lower channels because you want to see the SD only content and then settle on a channel that has a HD version. Instead of having to add 500 to 164 you just hit the RED C button as you are setting the remote down. You don't need to remember if that channel has HD or is only SD. If it does it will change, if not it just stays where it is. No math, no freakish knowledge of your entire SD/HD channel lineup. Just hit the button and your done.

As for the CID argument that no-one has land line any more I think that's not actually true. I know a lot of people have cut the cord but we are a family with kids and there are 2 things keeping me from getting rid of land line. 1. Older parents who expect to reach us on that line and no amount of cell phone suggesting is ever going to change that. The biggest reason is 911. I live on the corner of 3 towns and I know my town doesn't have any cell phone towers so where's the 911 call going to go? To make things worse, my mailing address is in a town that I don't actually live it, it's the town next to us. So if we dialed 911 from a cell phone we'd probably be routed to the wrong 911 call center and if our address was used then it would definitely get routed to the wrong town. Try explaining that to a babysitter. I know I'm in a very small group of people who has these problems, but that's why I still have a land line. But of course if you drop FIOS digital voice you break your triple play bundle and your bill decreases by the staggering amount of $0.00. Believe me, I just went through it.

If Tivo feels it's not economically viable to create this feature then I fully understand but I thought it would be something people want. Maybe not. I did find it interesting that RCN has incorporated it into their Tivo STB. Apparently they feel it's viable.

As for the "time bar". I still see people posting that it's easy to look at the start top time and then look at the recording bar. Then they start saying, just press the info button etc. I submit it's much EASIER to have this time bar available on every info bar that appears at the bottom of the screen. Believe me, I used to think it was stupid myself but once you have it for a few months it becomes useful. It truly is a feature no matter how stupid it sounds.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

In Illinois the local carriers have lost so much business they are looking to get out of the requirement to provide POTS. I expect it to pass. Less than 1.3M users in the state.


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## wtherrell (Dec 23, 2004)

justen_m said:


> I managed to get my parents to subscribe to this way of thinking, but it took a few attempts. I have been a total failure, OTOH, of getting my dad to stop referring to shows as "taped." I don't nag, I just make sure to say, "recorded." I don't think he'll ever adjust.


Yeah, he wants "footage".


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