# Official Statement from Comcast on Cable Card Rates



## Snuggy&Bubbles (May 31, 2007)

Our new Tivo HD will be here tomorrow. Comcast naturally does not know what they are doing and tried to charge us $6.95 per cable card. For those of you who have to suffer through Comcast's service, here is their offical statement on CableCard charges.

How much will I be charged to use a CableCARD?

There is no charge for the first CableCARD that you use as it is already included in the primary outlet fee. If you have a multi-card device on the same outlet (i.e. TiVo Series 3 or two Digital Cable Tuners connected to the same personal computer), you will be charged an additional regulated fee of up to $2.05 for the second CableCARD.

If additional CableCARDs are needed for other devices that are installed on additional outlets, you will not be charged for the first CableCARD installed on this outlet as the cost is included in the additional outlet fee. In addition to the cost of the digital cable service, you will be charged a regulated fee of up to $2.05 for the second CableCARD on the additional outlet in addition to the cost of the digital cable service.

**Note: The same pricing schedule will be applicable to additional outlets with multi-CableCARD devices, e.g. no charge for first CableCARD on the third outlet and an additional regulated fee of up to $2.05 for the second CableCARD in addition to the digital service charge. 

Disclaimer: Regulated Prices quoted above may not apply in all markets. Please call 1-800-COMCAST to learn more about Regulated Prices for your area. 

I will post the link when I am allowed to by the security settings of this site.

I hope this helps everyone.


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## Snuggy&Bubbles (May 31, 2007)

Here is the link

http://www.comcast.com/Customers/FAQ/FaqDetails.ashx?Id=2651


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Snuggy&Bubbles said:


> There is no charge for the first CableCARD that you use as it is already included in the primary outlet fee. *If you have a multi-card device on the same outlet (i.e. TiVo Series 3 or two Digital Cable Tuners connected to the same personal computer), you will be charged an additional regulated fee of up to $2.05 for the second CableCARD.
> *...


Except when you're not charged for the second card like me.* I think Comcast can get by without the extra $2.05 on my already-ridiculous $100 monthly bill.

*My install was enough of the usual SNAFU that they may not realize I have two cards. In spite of me saying it at least 6 times they sent the tech with only one card. He had to meet another to get the second one.


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## CraigK (Jun 9, 2006)

The official statement in the FAQ has been there for a long time. I've even quoted it to Comcast CSRs, but that doesn't seem to keep them from charging all kinds of variations.

For instance if you have a second TiVo HD, Comcast wants to charge you for an additional digital outlet. I can understand their thinking and the CableCARD cost should be included with the additional outlet charge.

The Comcast billing system however seems to be set up so that anytime you have a Tivo w/CableCARD it's treated as an older Tivo Series 3 that required two CableCARDs. This means Comcast tries to charge for both the additional outlet AND the CableCARD.

I've talked with billing CSRs that understand that the first outlet or any additional outlets include either a set-top box or Cablecard as part of the charge but their system can't seem to handle that for a TiVo. The CSR usually ends up making some kind of adjustment in what you're charged, but that may or may not come back to haunt you later with an audit of your account.

I guess there aren't enough TiVo CableCARD customers to justify Comcast looking into and fixing this problem so it's consistent in their billing system and matches what their FAQ says.

It just causes a lot of misunderstanding and bad feelings for Comcast from TiVo customers.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

In my area Comcast charges zero for the cable cards since they still use single stream cards.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

Don't forget the print at the bottom: "Disclaimer: Regulated Prices quoted above may not apply in all markets. Please call 1-800-COMCAST to learn more about Regulated Prices for your area."

In other words, we'll tell you it's $2.05... then we'll screw you anyway by telling you that you're not in a price regulated area.

I'm just bitter at Comcast. I hate them so much.

Anyone know what constitutes a "price regulated area"?


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

I had 1 S3 with 2 M cards and I was charged for the second card only.

I then added a second S3 and 2 more M cards and am now charged for a second outlet and 3 cards. If I read the 'policy' right, I should only be charged for 2 cards since each outlet should come with 1 card. Is this right?  All dependent upon whether my local Comcast adheres to the policy, of course.


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## QZ1 (Mar 24, 2003)

Only Comcast's printed Price Cards are FCC-mandated to be accurate for one's local service area.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

hummingbird_206 said:


> I had 1 S3 with 2 M cards and I was charged for the second card only.
> 
> I then added a second S3 and 2 more M cards and am now charged for a second outlet and 3 cards. If I read the 'policy' right, I should only be charged for 2 cards since each outlet should come with 1 card. Is this right?  All dependent upon whether my local Comcast adheres to the policy, of course.


Wouldn't a _SINGLE_ M card be all you'd need per TiVo? Or are we talking original Series 3s, here? (The originals don't "understand" M cards do double duty, do they? Still need two?)


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

gastrof said:


> Wouldn't a _SINGLE_ M card be all you'd need per TiVo? Or are we talking original Series 3s, here? (The originals don't "understand" M cards do double duty, do they? Still need two?)


The original S3s still need two cards to operate in Dual Tuner mode. With one card they will only operate in a single tuner mode.

Regarding the "Additional CableCard" charge, it took me years of on and off haggling with the local billing department which could never seem to recognize the official company policy regarding the 2nd card charge of $1.50. Only in the last few years have they credited me $3.65 in a "CableCard Credit" for not renting a box and remote then added on the $1.50 "CableCard Additional Outlet Fee." Now when I went to the office last week to return my cablemodem (replaced with one I purchased to avoid the rate raise on the rental), I noticed the account screen which insists that I use one cablecard in the livingroom and one in my bedroom. Yet when I pointed out to the CSR that I only have one TiVo with two cablecards, he said "Our system can't handle that."


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Keep in mind that the regulation only requires regulatory review, and the regulators only seek to review the average rate charged nationwide.

The idea of having more than one CableCARD on a single outlet was not something that the billing people had any understanding of, originally, but they added a rate code for it here. If you work with corporate customer support, you'll be able to get them to add a rate code for it in your area as well.


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## yukit (Jul 23, 2005)

I just logged on my comcast.com account to check how my 2nd M-card I added recently is billed.

I noticed that comcast.com & comcast.net are both integrated in ComcastCentral now, but I could not find a link to "recent activities" to show me the updates in my service. I guess I have to wait till the next billing cycle to find out the new charges.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

schwinn said:


> Don't forget the print at the bottom: "Disclaimer: Regulated Prices quoted above may not apply in all markets. Please call 1-800-COMCAST to learn more about Regulated Prices for your area."


In other words - Here's our general plan, but the plan in your area may differ.

ie - my cablecards are all free regardless. Two of my Tivo's are free outlet wise. One of them is hit with a $6.95 digital additional outlet charge.

I'm not complaining - I think I'm coming out ahead of the official policy. Just saying the official policy does not apply in a very large number of areas.

-Ken


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## QZ1 (Mar 24, 2003)

MScottC said:


> Regarding the "Additional CableCard" charge, it took me years of on and off haggling with the local billing department which could never seem to recognize the official company policy regarding the 2nd card charge of $1.50. Only in the last few years have they credited me $3.65 in a "CableCard Credit" for not renting a box and remote then added on the *$1.50 "CableCard Additional Outlet Fee.*"


They might call it that, (or maybe just you are calling it that), however, it is a 'Second CableCard on One Outlet' fee; it is even called that here on our local price card.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

We just received a new rate card from Comcast that's effective November 1st. The CableCARD (dual CableCards for non-Comcast HD PVRs requiring two cards) is dropping from $2.00 down to $1.75.

We actually have 2 S3's on the same TV but only 1 has CableCards. When we go to add CableCards to the second, I expect they will want to charge the $3.00 Digital Starter, Classic or Preferred - additional outlet fee plus $1.75 for the second CableCard that will be needed for the S3.

Scott


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

HerronScott said:


> We just received a new rate card from Comcast that's effective November 1st. The CableCARD (dual CableCards for non-Comcast HD PVRs requiring two cards) is dropping from $2.00 down to $1.75.


Yet you'll regularly read messages from people saying that price "never" go down for anything. 



HerronScott said:


> We actually have 2 S3's on the same TV but only 1 has CableCards. When we go to add CableCards to the second, I expect they will want to charge the $3.00 Digital Starter, Classic or Preferred - additional outlet fee plus $1.75 for the second CableCard that will be needed for the S3.


Yes a second box would probably warrant an additional digital outlet fee. Multiple cards in the same box would not.


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## ldconfig (Sep 7, 2004)

The $6.95 digital additional outlet charge violates FCC rules and 1996 law. The same rules that prevent the phone co. from charging you per phone. Its wrong but no one in power has the guts to call our the leader of the content cartel.
We need a public option for TV and broadband.
ld


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

ldconfig said:


> The $6.95 digital additional outlet charge violates FCC rules and 1996 law.


Incorrect.


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## ldconfig (Sep 7, 2004)

FCC Rcd 6012 (1995)


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Which does not mean what you claim it means.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

bicker said:


> Yet you'll regularly read messages from people saying that price "never" go down for anything.
> 
> Yes a second box would probably warrant an additional digital outlet fee. Multiple cards in the same box would not.


I was extremely surprised at the drop in price considering it had gone up to $2.00 from $1.50 last year.

Scott


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## Topmounter (Apr 11, 2007)

I just had Comcast install an M-card in my new Tivo HD and I thought they said the card was $1.50 / month.... regardless of what they said, I won't really know for sure until my next bill arrives.

That Moto DCH DVR I had was pretty awful, so I didn't really care how much they charged me for the CableCard (as long as it works of course).


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

HerronScott said:


> We just received a new rate card from Comcast that's effective November 1st. The CableCARD (dual CableCards for non-Comcast HD PVRs requiring two cards) is dropping from $2.00 down to $1.75.
> 
> We actually have 2 S3's on the same TV but only 1 has CableCards. When we go to add CableCards to the second, I expect they will want to charge the $3.00 Digital Starter, Classic or Preferred - additional outlet fee plus $1.75 for the second CableCard that will be needed for the S3.
> 
> Scott


Here Comcast dropped the fee for a second CableCARD in the same device to $1.60 from $1.79. I wonder if some kind gov't regulation isn't a factor; Comcast has just raised most prices a lot more than 19¢; the second CableCARD fee is the only one that dropped. The _Additional Outlet Fee_ went from $5.10 to $6.10.

Yes, you'll be charged an _Additional Outlet Fee_ plus the second CableCARD fee when you add cards to your S3. Used without cards S3 incurs no Comcast fees.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

You only pay the additional outlet fee if your S3 is an additional digital device. If it is your only digital device, then you won't pay an additional outlet fee for it.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

True. According to HerronScott's post to which mine replies, his S3 without CableCARDS has been benefitting from Comcast's freebie afforded all QAM tuners capable of only receiving unscrambled channels. When he adds CableCARDS it becomes an _Additional Outlet_.

When receiving this month's bill I had to call Comcast to remove an _Additional Outlet Fee_ for an S3 with CableCARDS. I had recently returned the standard digital STB included with the account, thus saving $7.70 mo.

We got the new rate card with the current bill. Comcast has changed its designations for their various levels of service, eliminating _Extended Basic_ which they now call _Digital Starter_. Although they certainly have the right to scramble all channels above _Limited Basic_ it will be interesting to see if they do. The digital cutover here is scheduled for mid-November.

BTW, _Limited Basic_ here specifically includes all OTA hi-def simulcasts, and Comcast states that a special low cost STB will be required to receive them. It appears that a QAM tuner without CableCARDS will still benefit from that freebie.

One other point of interest: I have a 90 yr. old neighbor who is confused by the whole digital mess. I picked up and connected her required STB. The standard Comcast remote is somewhat complicated, and it's possible when using it to get the STB and TV out of synch, so I suggested she try a much simpler DTA instead.

DTA's are registered to the specific account they're assigned to, but when I spoke to a Comcast agent, she hinted that they might still work on other accounts. The upshot was that here they do. However after trying my DTA my neighbor opted for the standard STB on the grounds that its picture quality was better. (The STB uses coax. ch. 3, not composite.) To me the difference was marginal at best on her 20" CRT but she got what she wanted!


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

I think you've got that backwards - the DTA uses coax channel 3 (or 4). The STB can use either coax or composite. It can also get a lot more stuff, including OnDemand and music channels, and it has a (crappy) guide.
But I agree, in most cases the picture diff is marginal.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

fallingwater said:


> ...after trying my DTA my neighbor opted for the standard STB on the grounds that its picture quality was better. (The STB uses coax. ch. 3, not composite.) To me the difference was marginal at best on her 20" CRT but she got what she wanted!





slowbiscuit said:


> I think you've got that backwards - the DTA uses coax channel 3 (or 4). The STB can use either coax or composite. It can also get a lot more stuff, including OnDemand and music channels, and it has a (crappy) guide.
> But I agree, in most cases the picture diff is marginal.


The picture difference is indeed marginal. I connected my neighbor's STB to her 20" CRT TV via coax ch. 3, not composite, to keep it simple. She only watches _Limited Basic_ channels, but subs to what is now called _Digital Starter_ so her son can watch football when he and his wife come over.



> _Limited Basic_ here specifically includes all OTA hi-def simulcasts, and Comcast states that a special low cost STB will be required to receive them. It appears that a QAM tuner without CableCARDS will still benefit from that freebie.


Upon carefully reviewing the above quote in conjunction with Comcast's rate sheet, I was wrong. Comcast charges 8 bucks monthly for a high-def STB, and that's what's necessary to get hi-def with _Limited Basic_. A _Limited Basic_ only STB is what costs a buck!

After the switch to all-digital for all channels above standard-def _Limited Basic_, we'll have to see what Comcast does regarding scrambling hi-def and _Digital Starter_ channels; the current freebies for non CableCARDed QAM tuners.


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## QZ1 (Mar 24, 2003)

Comcast got an FCC waiver to use the scrambling function of the DTA, (Privacy Mode), and they have already implemented it on Expd. Basic SD, in at least one metro area in the NW. (They needed the waiver, since the DTA does not use CableCard.) Only Ltd. Basic SD/HD will be in the clear.


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## QZ1 (Mar 24, 2003)

ldconfig said:


> The $6.95 digital additional outlet charge violates FCC rules and 1996 law.


Without reading the regs., I can tell you that, here, $3.70 of the A/O fees is for the included SD Box. Whatever the exact cost in a given area, it is about the same everywhere, in that the A/O includes the SD box. (Except for a few areas, and there, the A/Os are much less.)

However, here, a Digital Starter A/O is $4.95; so $1.25 of the fee is for mirroring.

A Digital Classic A/O is $8.90, so $5.20 of the fee is for mirroring.

Apparently, as someone else said, it is allowed. IMO, though, there should be no mirroring fees allowed, but I don't make the rules.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Clarification: Motorola, Cisco, Thompson and Pace received the FCC waiver you're referring to. Comcast is simply a beneficiary of that waiver, obtained by those other companies.


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