# 9.3 Causing Video Freeze on TivoHD



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

Been using my 2 TivoHDs basically problem free for months after painful start. Now along comes 9.3 and one of my TivoHDs after about a day the video begins to stutter and then freezes. I can still control the Tivo, but playing any video results in frozen screen image. After rebooting, it works fine for about a day or so, and then the problem returns.

Anyone else having this issue?


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## BrianAZ (Aug 13, 2007)

Chimpware said:


> Been using my 2 TivoHDs basically problem free for months after painful start. Now along comes 9.3 and one of my TivoHDs after about a day the video begins to stutter and then freezes. I can still control the Tivo, but playing any video results in frozen screen image. After rebooting, it works fine for about a day or so, and then the problem returns.
> 
> Anyone else having this issue?


Yep! I have a TivoHD with a WD DVR Expander. Is that your setup? At least the recordings don't seem to be screwed up.


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## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

No additional storage on my setup, just Tivo HD --> HDMI ---> Sony XBR. recordings seem fine, issue seems with playback only and does not lock the unit, just freezes playback. I have not hard rebooted the unit yet, only retart, so maybe if it happens again I will pull the plug and see if that remedies it.


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## esb1981 (Dec 2, 2007)

I'm having the identical issue - never happened before 9.3. There are other threads reporting the same thing, so sounds like this problem is rampant. It seems the box continues to record, but video playback freezes up.


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## DTSDude (May 24, 2006)

Same here. I also get a lot more video stuttering since the update.


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## bern43 (Mar 23, 2008)

Same issue here. Restarted the Tivo and it worked for a day or so and now its back to freezing. Very frustrating.


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## sarahp019 (Apr 25, 2008)

us too...hoping the restart will help things. for some reason, a few channels are working, but not anything good... just digital folk music channels....yay. LOL.


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## holee (Dec 12, 2000)

I've only had that happen once this week.


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## cdimon (Apr 25, 2008)

I am running into this problem as well since the update. Sound continues to play, but the video remains frozen during playback. You can see the video advance FF, but playing freezes the frame. 

Any word/acknowledgment from Tivo?


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## manoj (Nov 24, 2002)

I'm seeing this as well. I change the channel or play a recording, video will play fine for maybe a second at best, and the video then freezes. Sometimes, the audio will continue as if nothing else is wrong. Changing the channel or selecting a new recording is still possible, but they exhibit the same problems. The background videos (which I think are played through the same mechanism, or at least they used to be) don't seem to have this problem. And rebooting fixes it. I've only seen this problem twice so far: once just now, and once a few days ago (but I forget when exactly).

I have a TivoHD with 9.3a. I didn't have this problem before the upgrade.


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## knownzero (Feb 26, 2001)

Add me to the list. I have the WD drive, 2 Motorla S Cards and the Tivo HD since the 9.3 update is locking up on me. A reboot will fix it temporarily but every morning it'll be locked up. The progress bar will be at the beginning of the 30 minute buffer and skip ahead a few seconds then stop. Playing anything in Now Playing will play for a few seconds then stop but I can hear audio sometimes.


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## dtplink (Oct 13, 2004)

I started having the freeze problem after 9.3 was installed. It acts like it's stuck at the beginning of a recording and I can skip ahead a few seconds to a stop again. I have a DVR Expander on my Series 3 box. A reboot always brings back normal operation. Problem happens every few days.


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## runamonk (Apr 17, 2008)

I have this issue on my TiVo HD, it happened for the first time today and I don't have 9.3 (still on 8.1). Everything was working great until I installed the tivo desktop on my pc and told it download a recording from my tivo unit to my machine.


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## jobologna (Feb 24, 2008)

I too have had this problem since receiving 9.3a. I tried starting several recordings and the video would just stick...pressing skip moves the video forward, but it freezes again. Even the live TV buffer was stuck. A reboot fixed the problem...so far it's happened only once. I have just a basic setup...TivoHD, no external HD and component connection.


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## BrianAZ (Aug 13, 2007)

runamonk said:


> I have this issue on my TiVo HD, it happened for the first time today and I don't have 9.3 (still on 8.1). Everything was working great until I installed the tivo desktop on my pc and told it download a recording from my tivo unit to my machine.


8.1? Why don't you update?


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## imreolajos (Jan 27, 2005)

I've had the preview version of 9.3Y on my TiVo HD for a few weeks without any problem. None of my previous CableCard loss-of-signal problems happened with it (or they masked them well).

I got the 9.3a version a week or so ago. No problems with it until today. Same thing: digital channels show a frozen frame with sound (which may or may not go away after a few seconds), analog channels remain black, but worse: previous recordings play only sound, no picture (recordings that I know were fine before).

I just got off the phone with TiVo Customer Support. They think it's a CableCard issue. A reboot managed to get my picture back both on Live TV and existing recordings, but the service rep told me this is only temporary and I will see the same problem again in a few days until my M-Card is replaced.

Let me reiterate that again: they think my CableCard is broken and needs to be replaced by my cable provider.

What doesn't make sense to me is how a CableCard problem can affect EXISTING recordings? The service rep told me it does for sure, he's seen it before - which to me indicates there's an underlying issue with the TiVo software, too. Also, their claim that my CableCard got broken shortly after I got the 9.3a update is highly suspicious to me. Possible, but suspicious. But that's just me, the software engineer speaking...

If the error happens again, I'll call my cable company and I'll tell them to replace my M-Card. We'll see whether that fixes it or not.

If you see the same problem, call TiVo service so that they at least know this problem is more widespread than just a few isolated cases. Posting on this forum will NOT achieve the same thing. At the same time, call your cable company and have them replace your CableCard.

I'm getting really sick & tired of TiVo, the cable companies and the CableCard manufacturers all pointing fingers at each other! This is what I had to deal with since I bought my TiVo HD on Xmas! :down::down::down:


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## BrianAZ (Aug 13, 2007)

imreolajos said:


> I just got off the phone with TiVo Customer Support. They think it's a CableCard issue. A reboot managed to get my picture back both on Live TV and existing recordings, but the service rep told me this is only temporary and I will see the same problem again in a few days until my M-Card is replaced.
> 
> Let me reiterate that again: they think my CableCard is broken and needs to be replaced by my cable provider.
> 
> What doesn't make sense to me is how a CableCard problem can affect EXISTING recordings? The service rep told me it does for sure, he's seen it before - which to me indicates there's an underlying issue with the TiVo software, too. Also, their claim that my CableCard got broken shortly after I got the 9.3a update is highly suspicious to me. Possible, but suspicious. But that's just me, the software engineer speaking...


That's just someone trying to get you off the phone. For everyone who's impacted, this behavior began with 9.3a. That's the variable that changed.


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## MANOWAR© (Mar 6, 2005)

Well, after my initial problems with this. I have since, rebooted, went back to TTG 2.51 and it's been fine since. The BS from TiVo about it being the cable cards is just that BS. Guys without the cards have the same problem. If it wasn't something to do with the TiVo/TiVo software why is it happening on recordings?

TiVo needs to step up and admit they have a bug and provide a fix.


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## susani8 (Jan 14, 2006)

Add my name to the list! I have no idea when my series 3 installed the 9.3a, but after problems started manifesting yesterday I checked and sure enough it's been installed. I'm also getting the stuttering on live tv as well as previously recorded shows. Mine will freeze frame (audio and video) for about a second avery 3 or 4 seconds, it will do this for about 10 minutes (FF or Rew makes no difference to it). Then it will stop responding to the remote and continue whatever it was doing (for example, I was watching a playoff game last night and did an 7 second backup and hit the slow button to rewatch a foul - and it stuck there on slow regardless of the remote commands pressed). After about 2-5 minutes of this the whole thing spontaneously shuts down and reboots (which was really sucky as I was using the buffer to skip over the ads - so I missed a bunch of the game). Throughout the evening it rebooted itself 3 or 4 times. After the reboot it would work fine for 15 - 20 minutes and then the stuttering would start again. All of this is brand new behavior for my series 3 which has been behaving beautifully for the last 18 months. I do have an external storage attached, but there is no extrordinary noise coming from it, or anything else I can detect that might make it a drive issue. I hope they come up with a solution soon, my beautiful s3 is almost unwatchable now! 

I was so looking forward to the NBA playoffs in high def and tivoed!


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## susani8 (Jan 14, 2006)

MANOWAR©;6219781 said:


> Well, after my initial problems with this. I have since, rebooted, went back to TTG 2.51 and it's been fine since.


Where can I find the TiVo Desktop 2.51? I upgraded to the 2.61 a couple of weeks ago and have had nothing but problems with it, I'd like to go back to the 2.51 but can't find a link to it, and I didn't save the installation program on my harddrive during my intial install - I just did it directly from the website. Can anyone direct me?


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## DreadPirateFlint (Apr 26, 2008)

Add me to the list. 9.3a. I've been seeing the problem quite a bit, 2 or 3 times per night, playback only, doesn't happen on every program. Reboot seems to clear it up for awhile (few days?). I do have an expander, but things had been working great until a few weeks ago.

So glad to hear I'm not the only one with this problem. 

Er...well, not glad. More relieved, really. 


DPF


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## MANOWAR© (Mar 6, 2005)

susani8 said:


> Where can I find the TiVo Desktop 2.51? I upgraded to the 2.61 a couple of weeks ago and have had nothing but problems with it, I'd like to go back to the 2.51 but can't find a link to it, and I didn't save the installation program on my harddrive during my intial install - I just did it directly from the website. Can anyone direct me?


http://www.tivo.com/assets/exe/tivot...sktop2.5.1.exe


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## knownzero (Feb 26, 2001)

Here's a datapoint, I don't know if its relevant to the problem or not but I'll throw it out there. Last night (for the first time in a week) wasn't locked up at all this morning. However, I turned the TV off and went away for about 15 minutes, turned the tv back on and it had stopped. The picture (and live buffer) were stopped right at the exact time I turned the tv off. The live buffer wasn't paused, it still had the 'play' triangle and the slider on the screen but the image had stopped right where it was when I turned the tv off. Had to reboot to get it back to normal.


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## susani8 (Jan 14, 2006)

MANOWAR©;6221216 said:


> http://www.tivo.com/assets/exe/tivot...sktop2.5.1.exe


Thanks!


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## runamonk (Apr 17, 2008)

BrianAZ said:


> 8.1? Why don't you update?


I tried it didn't download any updates.

It has since updated to 9.3a on its own.


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## mauschein (Aug 18, 2007)

I just called Tivo Technical support. They are aware of the problem and they are looking into it.


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## ShadeD1 (Jun 3, 2003)

I've had no problems up until now but this turned up recently. I also have Desktop 2.61 installed and a WD drive for x-tra storage.

I have been able to work around the problem by using 30 sec skip, which gets the video working again, then backing up to where I was. It has worked so far


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

No problems here with my 4 TiVoHD boxes.


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## snuller (Apr 27, 2008)

Same problem here. I think it sounds like 9.3a, and not Desktop, not expansion storage, not TVs, basically a software mistake pushed around the world. All of a sudden the tivo is annoying rather than fun. 

My work around has been to hit the forward arrow then play right away.

I think they should push the old system version asap until they can debug this one.


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## witman (Jan 16, 2008)

I'm a new Tivo customer since January and everything worked fine up until this last update about 10 days ago. Since then TIVO freezes up almost daily on some channels but not all. I have restarted the TIVO HD DVR several times now but the problem keeps coming back. I wonder if I unplug it or repeat the guided setup if that would help. What annoys me is that I prepaid 3 yrs to get the discount and now I'm having trouble every day. My Cablevision DVR in my bedroom works fine and doesn't bug up!


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## MANOWAR© (Mar 6, 2005)

witman said:


> I'm a new Tivo customer since January and everything worked fine up until this last update about 10 days ago. Since then TIVO freezes up almost daily on some channels but not all. I have restarted the TIVO HD DVR several times now but the problem keeps coming back. I wonder if I unplug it or repeat the guided setup if that would help. What annoys me is that I prepaid 3 yrs to get the discount and now I'm having trouble every day. My Cablevision DVR in my bedroom works fine and doesn't bug up!


Join the rest of us. We've all tried restarting, redoing the setup guide, changing all the video/audio settings, hardware, cables. It's not specific to HDMI/component users, OTA/cable users, or external HDD or not. It really seems to be a bug in 9.3 that isn't being addressed by TiVo yet.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

MANOWAR©;6223941 said:


> Join the rest of us. We've all tried restarting, redoing the setup guide, changing all the video/audio settings, hardware, cables. It's not specific to HDMI/component users, OTA/cable users, or external HDD or not. It really seems to be a bug in 9.3 that isn't being addressed by TiVo yet.


Whatever it is I have two TiVoHD boxes with cablecards, two cards with Comcast and two cards with FIOS. I also have two TiVoHD boxes with just OTA. None of the boxes have had any freezing etc. All I see is a much faster menu. It has been a superb upgrade so far for my four TiVoHD and three S3 boxes.


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## caa (Jun 19, 2002)

My TivoHD has been doing the stuttering until I reboot for the past 2 weeks or so.
I checked, and I'm at 9.3a-01-2-652. HDMI connection, no external storage 1 M-card. I rebooted 1/2 an hour ago, and it's doing it again already.

This really sucks!!!


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> Whatever it is I have two TiVoHD boxes with cablecards, two cards with Comcast and two cards with FIOS. I also have two TiVoHD boxes with just OTA. None of the boxes have had any freezing etc. All I see is a much faster menu. It has been a superb upgrade so far for my four TiVoHD and three S3 boxes.


The stuttering seems to start on analog content which may be why you don't see it (if you are all digital OTA and maybe your cablecard TiVo is all digital as well).


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## KRKeegan (Jul 20, 2004)

mee too, happened right after I got 9.3. But nothing since then.

Hopefull we can get a fix soon, it was pretty annoying.


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## yroca (Dec 6, 2004)

Seeing the same thing here - also started just after receiving the 9.3 update. Very frustrating. I have 1 single M-card, and no external storage.


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## MANOWAR© (Mar 6, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> Whatever it is I have two TiVoHD boxes with cablecards, two cards with Comcast and two cards with FIOS. I also have two TiVoHD boxes with just OTA. None of the boxes have had any freezing etc. All I see is a much faster menu. It has been a superb upgrade so far for my four TiVoHD and three S3 boxes.


You probably just jinxed yourself.  Mine was doing fine too up until a few days ago.


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## esb1981 (Dec 2, 2007)

This happened to me on Thursday, I rebooted, and then it happened again on Friday. This time I called Tivo and they had me unplug the box and pop out the cablecards, wait a couple minutes, and then put the cards back in and reboot. Since then it's been okay (for the last 60 hours or so). Of course now I've probably jinxed myself. But anyway, I would recommend people trying this and see if it helps better than simply a reset. The CSR I spoke to did indicate that they've been getting reports of this problem, and he gave me a case #. We'll see what happens. Definitely call Tivo if you have the problem so they get as many reports as possible and start working a solution.


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## hkancyr (Jan 20, 2002)

I too have had this problem appear since 9.3!


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## dtplink (Oct 13, 2004)

I have the problem of playback stopping on recorded and live broadcasts that I am watching that are being recorded. The software version I have is 9.3a.


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## BrianAZ (Aug 13, 2007)

ShadeD1 said:


> I've had no problems up until now but this turned up recently. I also have Desktop 2.61 installed and a WD drive for x-tra storage.
> 
> I have been able to work around the problem by using 30 sec skip, which gets the video working again, then backing up to where I was. It has worked so far





snuller said:


> Same problem here. I think it sounds like 9.3a, and not Desktop, not expansion storage, not TVs, basically a software mistake pushed around the world. All of a sudden the tivo is annoying rather than fun.
> 
> My work around has been to hit the forward arrow then play right away.
> 
> I think they should push the old system version asap until they can debug this one.


My experience has been that this will work for a period of time and then it won't. You'll need to reboot and then you'll be OK for a few days.


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## cmshep222 (Feb 18, 2005)

Add me to the FREEZE list. Tivo HD with 9.3 software. Got up this morning and all channels had a "still" picture but did have sound. Rebooted and all worked fine. 

Though now I'm concerned this will be happening more often.


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## susani8 (Jan 14, 2006)

I have 2 Series 3s - one is hooked to a SD TV and another to an HD TV, I only have the stuttering/freezing weirdness with the TiVo hooked up to the HD TV - and then only on select HD channels - such as TNTHD, and ESPNHD - which is making it very difficult, if not impossible to watch the NBA playoffs in HD. 

The weirdest thing is that the buffer will show only about 10 minutes total and will post the current time, but when compared to the same non-hd channel (ie TNT), the action showing on the HD channel is actually 20-30 minutes BEHIND what should be showing for the posted time. Difficult to describe, I hope you get it. This is a new phenom. for me. Rebooting - both through the menu and uplugging/replugging only gives me 30-45 minutes relief and then it starts all over, until I finally give up and go to my Standard def. television and watch the rest of the game there (or transfer a previously recorded program, if the program is HD). So much for HD, it's relatively unusable to me right now. Antennae or cable - both are acting the same. I have 2 cablecards (Motorola) in each S3 and they each have HDD expanders on them. I'm connected via antennae and Comcast.


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## johncoyne (Jul 15, 2003)

I just switched to FIOS with two HD Tivo boxes and have had the same &%^&%%^ freezing problem as described in this thread...not a happy camper here. I did the reboot thing and it seems to have stopped for the moment. I hope TIVO powers that be are reading this thread and come up with a qucik fix ASAP!
John, NY


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## njdtivo (Nov 11, 2002)

Let's be clear about this, Tivo already has a means for undoing the damage they've done. They can stop loading 9.3, allow you to re-set & clear your boxes, and eventually you will upgrade to 9.2 and stop. However, Tivo is insistent on not supporting multiple code levels in the field, so they force customers to fix what isn't broken. This saves them time and money without regard to the inconvenience they are causing customers.

I recommend that anyone experiencing this problem should call Tivo and insist that they credit you the monthly subscriber fee until they correct this problem. Why would you allow them to continue to charge you for a broken service? This will only receive an appropriate response from Tivo when it hurts their bottom line!!!


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## steinercat (Nov 16, 2007)

For what its worth.....

I recently moved to the SF bay area (Comcast) from Las Vegas (Cox).

In Vegas I was using 2 S-Cards.

Now I am using 1 M-Card.

Before Comcast installed the M-Card, I reset everything. M-Card got paired and up and running. After that, I deleted everything on my THD and started from scratch. Insserted the DVR Expander and reset again.

So far, so good, no freezing on any channels. HD and HBOHD work fine. Live Sports work fine. In short, I have NONE of the freezing issues I had previously in Vegas. (cross fingers)

Panasonic 42" 1080i
HDMI
DVR Expander
Wireless USB adapter


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## pdog (Jan 16, 2002)

Same situation here. Video started freezing randomly upon playback a few days ago. Now I can't watch any recordings anymore as they all freeze within seconds of play. My TivoHD is unusable right now.


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## johncoyne (Jul 15, 2003)

pdog said:


> Same situation here. Video started freezing randomly upon playback a few days ago. Now I can't watch any recordings anymore as they all freeze within seconds of play. My TivoHD is unusable right now.


Try uplugging your Tivo for a few minutes and then replug it in and let it reboot. That worked for me and I have been lucky as to not have the freezing problem show up again (in the past few days anyway). I did this on both my HD Tivos. If it shows up again I will take another poster's advice and call Tivo directly and complain and ask for a rebate.
John, NY


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## oldnacl (Mar 23, 2007)

Me too. Noticed freezing on playback over the weekend. It was a SD channel as mentioned above. Did a restart and it seemed to clear it up but since then I found the same problem on recordings made after the reboot. As I recall, they've all been on SD channels. I have a WD "green" 1 TB drive internal that's been working flawlessly since installation several months ago - until this past weekend.


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## kazz244 (Jan 23, 2008)

Same thing here, with one difference. Stuttering and lockup was on Hi def channels only. When I switched to regular def, the picture returned to normal.


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## KJW (Sep 27, 2003)

Is everyone on this thread using an HDMI connection? Anyone experiencing this problem with component cables? Just a thought.


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## MANOWAR© (Mar 6, 2005)

KJW said:


> Is everyone on this thread using an HDMI connection? Anyone experiencing this problem with component cables? Just a thought.


I first noticed it on HDMI so I switched to component cable and it still happened.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I'm using composite hookup (for now) and it happened to me again today.

I had transfers to PC going on at the time of the video freeze and those got "interrupted" as well.
Coincidence?


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## desiboy (Oct 3, 2007)

Same issue here, reboot helps, dont know for how long. Have MyDVR attached.


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## yroca (Dec 6, 2004)

KJW said:


> Is everyone on this thread using an HDMI connection? Anyone experiencing this problem with component cables? Just a thought.


I am using component only and seeing the issue.


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## SLSinger1 (Oct 10, 2006)

Having the 9.3 freezing problem on my S-3, not my THD yet. Unplugging and rebooting sometimes works for a day, sometimes for 5 minutes. Tech Support knows about the problem but doesn't have a patch yet and is not allowing users to go backward to an earlier software version. Frustrating. I was going to try a Kickstart 57, but after reading this thread it doesn't seem likely that it is a hard drive issue.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

I have 3 Series 3s and one TiVoHD and my family uses them all the time and i would hear quickly if there was any problems and not a peep from them. I use one of the Series 3s and it has never locked up or had any other problem. I am using HDMI and I do not use Kidzone on any of my TiVos nor am i using the TiVo desktop software.


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## wvalencia (Jun 24, 2004)

Add another family to your list. This 9.3 release must not have been tested very well to be experiencing this many problems.

I have a Tivo-HD and external storage. Two Cable Cards, Time Warner So Cal

Thanks!


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## asya999 (Apr 30, 2008)

I'm certain it's the software. I've got no cable cards, just OTA HD channels only, and everything was freezing up tonight (first time I've turned it on it a week). I'm using component connection. Rebooting seemed to help, but I don't know for how long.


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## ilh (Dec 21, 2007)

Add another THD to the list. I never had a lockup in 9.2a, but I just had my first in 9.3a. My unit was recording two HD programs and I was trying to watch a recorded SD program. I was using 30-second skip rapidly when it happened. Afterward, I could not play any SD recorded programs. I would get 2-3s of audio with a still video frame, and then the audio would stop. In FF or RW mode I would see moving video, but not at normal or slow play.

This happened on any prerecorded SD content. The menu animations were still operational despite being SD, it was only prerecorded SD content. I didn't try SD live TV because of my HD recordings in progress.

I finally did a soft reboot from the menus and all is well (for now).

I'm using HDMI.

TiVo, please fix what you broke!

--Lee


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## esb1981 (Dec 2, 2007)

What has worked for me was: unplug, pop out cable cards, put cards back in, re-boot. It's been fine since Friday (knock on wood).


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## Chad52 (Aug 20, 2002)

Add me to the list also. About a week or so ago, I started seeing the same "freeze"ing that everybody else is describing on my Tivo HD. Everything worked fine before that! Just wanted to get my name on the list too! Fix it Tivo!


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## mchief (Sep 10, 2005)

I have had freezes/stuttering usually requiring pulling the plug. A few days now with no problems. I read earlier that a CSR recommended unplugging the TIVO, removing the cable cards with the unit unplugged, reinserting the cable cards and rebooting. I almost spit Pepsi all over my screen. That has to be the dumbest thing I ever heard. When the unit in unplugged nothing you do will be recognized or remembed. Another CSR exercise


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## aimeedmiked (Jan 12, 2007)

Not sure when I got the upgrade but as of Tuesday my Tivo started rebooting, skipping and SLLLLLLLOOOOOOOWWW. I too called Tivo and "They are aware of the problem and working on a fix."

*Please give this a try and let me know how it goes.* Unplug the coaxial cable(s) from the back of the unit. For my the problem went away with the big exception of no live tv. I am still able to transfer shows and watch previously recorded shows.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

aimeedmiked said:


> Not sure when I got the upgrade but as of Tuesday my Tivo started rebooting, skipping and SLLLLLLLOOOOOOOWWW. I too called Tivo and "They are aware of the problem and working on a fix."


That sounds like a totally different issue than the one being discussed in this thread.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

aimeedmiked said:


> Not sure when I got the upgrade but as of Tuesday my Tivo started rebooting, skipping and SLLLLLLLOOOOOOOWWW. I too called Tivo and "They are aware of the problem and working on a fix."
> 
> *Please give this a try and let me know how it goes.* Unplug the coaxial cable(s) from the back of the unit. For my the problem went away with the big exception of no live tv. I am still able to transfer shows and watch previously recorded shows.


Unplugging the coax is the recommended work-around for the "rebooting and slowdown" problem, but it has nothing to do with the video freeze problem.


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## susani8 (Jan 14, 2006)

I hope that they come up with a fix pretty quickly. I'm having my non-affected s3 record everything scheduled for the affected one. Unfortunately this one is attached to a SD TV and so I don't get the HD anymore (and so that there is room for both sets of shows, since I normally divide up recording duties between the 2 TiVos, I'm recording everything SD). The shows that have tried to record since last week on the affected s3 have recorded in 3 and 4 sections - and even put together they only hit about 75% of the actual show making it mostly unwatchable. I lost my favorites - Cold Case, House, Bones, CSIs, and Grey's Anatomy before I saw what was happening (I stopped using that TiVo once the stuttering started, but erroneously thought the recordings were going to be fine). I'm bummed!


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## StephenT (Oct 13, 2001)

When mine freezes I can fast forward a bit then hit play and it will be back to normal. Also it only freezes after I hit play when fast forwarding. It has never frozen during regular playback. I can always go to the menu when the video freezes too. It's not totally hung where I have to reboot.

This just started last night. I didn't know of the new software, so I didn't check. I'll check tonight. I assume I have it. I'm OTA only and using HDMI.

I also had video but not audio at one point last night. I switched inputs on my receiver and then back again, and audio came back. Not sure if that's at all related.


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## kucharsk (Feb 2, 2007)

My Dad's been seeing this on his TiVO HD, and he's off-the-air ATSC-only, so it's definitely not (or not *only*) a CableCard issue.

Also only in the past few weeks since 9.3a went out.

It also seems to be TiVO HD only, as I haven't seen this on my S3.


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## Snowman25 (May 2, 2008)

Thought I'd throw my hat in the ring as also having freezing problems since the 9.3 upgrade (Tivo HD). As best as I can tell it's only happening with HD video. The problem has been mainly with recordings but last night I also had the same phenomenon watching live TV as well.

Recordings only play for a minute or so and then both audio and video freeze. I can rewind and play again, but it will freeze _at the exact same point again_, almost like something in the video is triggering it. The part that freezes kind of acts like a wall that it won't go past. I have to 30-second skip to get past it.

If I go to Live TV and then back into the recording, it still freezes at the exact same points.

Last night it was doing it every 10 minutes or so. Today it was completely unusable while trying to watch Lost. I would get it unstuck and it would find a point to freeze again within seconds.

The thing I find really weird is how it freezes at the exact same points every time. Is it possible there is something in the compression decoding triggering it?

It's a Tivo HD with one M-Card, no external storage, connected through a Sony amp with component cables.

I'm very aggravated with Tivo at this point becuase the box is now unusable and I'm forced to revert to the Comcast Craptastic DVR after paying $300 to not have to use it anymore!

There should definitely be a way to rollback upgrades for instances like this.


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## jkbrowne (Dec 14, 2005)

I am a software developer so I know first hand about software bugs. But, I do think with the proper quality control process this type of thing can be minimized. I am not frustrated with Tivo because of the bugs. It happens. I am, however, frustrated that there is no real acknowledgment it is software-related. It leaves us to wonder if it *can* be fixed with a software update. Some people have said they had this problem before 9.3a. If it is, in fact, software-related they should be able to tell us that definitively and provide an ETA on the fix.

Update: I waited to post this because I was on the phone with Tivo. The technician I spoke with said he was unaware of any freezing issues with the 9.3a software and suggested I power down the unit, pop the cablecard in and out, and power it back up. I believe someone on the forums said this did not work for them, but I will try it anyway next time I have the issue.

So the question remains. Is this a hardware or software issue?


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## ilh (Dec 21, 2007)

Can someone explain how the CableCARDs know they are popped out of a powered-down TiVo? What a joke.


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## jkbrowne (Dec 14, 2005)

The only thing I can think of is it also disconnects the cable card from the cable company feed (the coax). I'm also skeptical that it works as well, but I will try it anyway next time I have the freeze.


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## jimbo1mcm (Jan 8, 2006)

I vaguely remember getting my Tivo Series 1 back to life by unplugging EVERYTHING, including the coax and the phone line. Worked for me.


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## kinggabbo (Dec 20, 2007)

I'm having the same problems. No cable cards. Just OTA.


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## jkbrowne (Dec 14, 2005)

Anyone tried attenuators for this specific issue? I've seen other threads related to lockups, pixelization, etc where attenuating the signal fixes it.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

jkbrowne said:


> The technician I spoke with ... suggested I power down the unit, pop the cablecard in and out, and power it back up.


This is a CSR standard response #1. Call about ANY problem with a Tivo and this is usually the first thing they tell you to do. 


jkbrowne said:


> So the question remains. Is this a hardware or software issue?


I vote software.
I didn't have any freezing before the 9.3 update.


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## bbhart (May 3, 2008)

Same basic problem as other people here. Mine started 2-3 days ago. After a reboot the machine seems to run normally for 5-10 minutes but then starts to degrade. At first it's a 1/2 sec. pause here and there in live video, but it quickly gets worse, freezing live video completely. At that point, hitting the TiVo button will bring up the main menu, but with video still behind it. It can take _minutes_ to navigate from screen to screen in the menu.

I've only had the unit for three weeks. We were getting along so well...

I have an M-Card, HDMI out, the TiVo-branded wifi adapter, and the HD is probably near maxed out with HD programs. HTH.


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## MANOWAR© (Mar 6, 2005)

I measured the heat in my entertainment center and the TiVo/WD expander combo puts out 104.1°F. I put one of those cheap ebay laptop cooling fans that runs on USB and plugged it into my TiVo HD 2 days ago and the temp dropped to 88.9°F and I haven't seen the freezing problem since. I never got the temp reading before 9.3 but it seems like my WD expander is spinning constantly even when I'm not recording and I don't remember it doing that before 9.3. Hopefully this fixes it for me.


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## Scopeman (Oct 22, 2002)

steve614 said:


> I vote software. I didn't have any freezing before the 9.3 update.


They know it is software.

I've just gotten a second fee refund from the Tivo support phone line. They required a manager's approval because, according the to CSR, so many people have been calling and asking for the fee back as a result of the problems with rebooting and pixelation, etc.

This tells me two things:

1. They have a widespread issue
2. They are sensitive to the revenue loss associated with a lot of people calling and asking for refunds of their fees.

Here is the call to action:

CALL TIVO SUPPORT @ 877-367-8486, ask for your monthly fees back due to problems with 9.3. Don't take no for an answer. Tell your friends with s#s to call also.

Heck - even if you DO NOT have the issue, please call and take the free $. You benefit (free money), I benefit (Tivo pays more attention to the issue) and in the long run, we all may benefit if they see a more closely corrlated relationship between their errors and quality control problems and their revenue stream.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Scopeman said:


> Heck - even if you DO NOT have the issue, please call and take the free $. You benefit (free money), I benefit (Tivo pays more attention to the issue) and in the long run, we all may benefit if they see a more closely corrlated relationship between their errors and quality control problems and their revenue stream.


See my response to your thread you created for why it's a bad idea to call in to report problems on your box if you're not having any issues.


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## jkbrowne (Dec 14, 2005)

I have two TivoHD units. One is in the living area inside a cabinet with glass doors. The other is in the bedroom and completely out in the open. Both units are exhibiting the exact same symptoms. I don't think the issue is heat-related....at least not in my case. The LR unit had worked for several days in a row, until tonight when it froze yet again. <sigh>


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

This is really odd. I've not experienced any problems even close to this sort of thing on either of my S3 TiVos or on my TiVoHD, either before or after the 9.3 push. Yet there are enough people reporting the problem I find it hard to believe it's not real. I have dual SA CableCards on my S3s and an M-Card on my TiVo HD, with TW Cable as my provider. The HD is hacked, and all three have drive expansions. I suppose my hacks could be preventing issues on the HD, but It doesn't seem too likely.


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

Scopeman said:


> They know it is software.
> 
> I've just gotten a second fee refund from the Tivo support phone line. They required a manager's approval because, according the to CSR, so many people have been calling and asking for the fee back as a result of the problems with rebooting and pixelation, etc.
> 
> ...


Posting this same post in three different threads should be considered a violation of the rules of this forum. I know the issue is frustrating, I've lived without my S3 for nearly two weeks now. But, your suggestion doesn't help. Please move on.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

MANOWAR©;6244295 said:


> I measured the heat in my entertainment center and the TiVo/WD expander combo puts out 104.1°F. I put one of those cheap ebay laptop cooling fans that runs on USB and plugged it into my TiVo HD 2 days ago and the temp dropped to 88.9°F and I haven't seen the freezing problem since. I never got the temp reading before 9.3 but it seems like my WD expander is spinning constantly even when I'm not recording and I don't remember it doing that before 9.3. Hopefully this fixes it for me.


No, the drive would have been recording dual streams 24 hours a day unless both tuners are tuned to a station you do not receive. That said, I suppose it's possible something in the new software is causing more drive seeks and thus more heat than the old software. This fits with the fact I'm not seeing the problem, because I no longer have an internal drive in the TiVo HD. I remain skeptical, however.


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## knownzero (Feb 26, 2001)

Still having issues here, sometimes multiple reboots in the same day (like yesterday and this morning). What's interesting is that it seems to pop up only after I've turned my tv off/on at some point where I'm getting the freezes. Like this morning, I turned my TV off last night in the middle of Numbers and this morning, it was stuck near where I turned the tv off the night before. It had been running fine for about 5 hours before I turned the tv off. For it to stick right around the time its being turned off almost makes me think its a probem with the HDCP implementation. Another oddity is that if I reboot and don't have the TV on, I'll get a black screen and am unable to get a picture back without rebooting again with the tv on. It doesn't happen all the time but it's an odd failure.

As far as temps go, I don't know if that's part of the problem or just a coincidence. The problem didn't start until 9.3a was downloaded and I'm certain that's where the problem is at but this also didn't start until the temps in my place started rising and it does seem that if my place is more than say 72F the problem worsens. Maybe they were messing with the speed of the cooling fans in the software or messed up a bit of code on when to turn them on or something but there seems there may be a coorelation between the two and the number of times that it happens.

Through all of this, even if the video pauses/stutters etc all of my recordings are just fine. I've not had a single problem with a recorded video that was recorded through any of these freezing episodes. That leads me to think that it could be a problem with the live tv buffer portion of the software as well. This is why this bug is kind of difficult, it could be any number of possibilities.


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

Well, as of this morning, we have a new cable card. Our S3 Tivo had a cable card going bad, and we didn't know it. We went through a lot of hoops to try and resolve this problem ourselves, including a hard drive replacement and ultimately using InstantCake to rebuild the software on our original hard drive. Everything has seemed fine, we needed to get our cable cards paired again. Cox was out this morning to do that, he had to replace one of the cable cards. I'll update as the weekend goes on to see if we have any more freezing issues.


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## Lrscpa (Apr 20, 2003)

I started noticing the problem on one channel, and then had it spread to live TV on many channels. What would happen is that a channel would be tuned from the Tivo, the video would come up frozen - with the audio on for a 4-5 sec and then drop out. If I hit the FF or frame advance screen, the frame would advance - to another frozen frame. A reboot a few minutes ago seems to have addressed the problem.

Running a Tivo HD (9.3a) via HDMI to Sharp 52D64U, and a WD DVR Expander outside of the equiptment cabinet. Tivo HD runs 39F-42F (lower than my Series 2 which ran for 6 years at 44F-51F (though it required 2 new hard drives with instant cake).


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

Lrscpa said:


> Tivo HD runs 39*F*-42*F *(lower than my Series 2 which ran for 6 years at 44F-51*F* (though it required 2 new hard drives with instant cake).


That could be your problem. It may be ice crystals forming overnight. Mine runs at 42C.


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## Jackanapes (Aug 21, 2003)

Just got off the phone with Tivo Technical Support. Video freeze issue started happening after the software upgrade on our TiVoHD, too. Happened on both live TV and recorded programs. 

They had me unplug the coax and reboot, which fixed the problem for 10-15 minutes, until it recurred.

Basically, they asked for my patience, logged my TiVo system info, and added my device to the data their software engineers are working with to try and come up with a bug fix.

CSR did say he thought it would be a couple weeks, so I asked for some sort of credit. He volunteered to credit my account for one month. Put me on hold to authorize that credit, then came back on 5 minutes later and said they are actually exchanging hardware now, which seems to fix the problem 95% of the time. I told him that seemed odd if it was a software and not a hardware issue, but he said that it seems the 9.3 download is screwing up some existing hard drives. Starting with a new drive and downloading 9.3 during setup doesn't seem to exhibit the same problem.

We'll see. 46 minutes of my time on the phone, the hassle of boxing up my TiVo and dropping it off at a UPS location (pre-paid shipping label). I guess it's worth it if the DVR works like it should!


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## JediTim (Sep 25, 2007)

Jackanapes said:


> Just got off the phone with Tivo Technical Support. Video freeze issue started happening after the software upgrade on our TiVoHD, too. Happened on both live TV and recorded programs.
> 
> CSR did say he thought it would be a couple weeks, so I asked for some sort of credit. He volunteered to credit my account for one month. Put me on hold to authorize that credit, then came back on 5 minutes later and said they are actually exchanging hardware now, which seems to fix the problem 95% of the time. I told him that seemed odd if it was a software and not a hardware issue, but he said that it seems the 9.3 download is screwing up some existing hard drives. Starting with a new drive and downloading 9.3 during setup doesn't seem to exhibit the same problem.


Well I hope that I get lucky...I just received two brand new TiVo HD units with lifetime service...I am switching away from my DirecTV Tivo R10 units. I started a thread last week in that I performed all of the steps prior to recieving my Verizon FiOS CableCARDs.

With any luck I will not have these issues noted throught this thread...my units upgraded the software from 8.1 that was installed in the units directly from TiVo to the 9.3a. My installations is scheduled for Tuesday...I will probably try to force another update from TiVo in the event a new software version is released prior to the CableCARD install.

Tim


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## jimbo1mcm (Jan 8, 2006)

If they really think it is a hardware issue, caused by a software update, then this is a GALATIC problem!!!! Tivo doesn't have enough money, time or smarts to fix something like this. If they are exchanging units or hard drives, they are in a world of hurt.


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## JediTim (Sep 25, 2007)

jimbo1mcm said:


> If they really think it is a hardware issue, caused by a software update, then this is a GALATIC problem!!!! Tivo doesn't have enough money, time or smarts to fix something like this. If they are exchanging units or hard drives, they are in a world of hurt.


I have to agree with you...I don't believe this is a hardware issue, temperature issue, CableCARD issue or even a connection issue. Based on what I have read in this thread, this forum and even the TiVo Help Forums it has to be a issue with the software patch 9.3a. I am not sure why TiVo would re-release the prior software to alleviate the issue unless this isn't affecting all units. I would imagine if this affected all TiVo units we would be reading this in the news rather than just suer forums.

Just my two cents,
Tim


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## jkbrowne (Dec 14, 2005)

Jackanapes said:


> CSR did say he thought it would be a couple weeks, so I asked for some sort of credit. He volunteered to credit my account for one month. Put me on hold to authorize that credit, then came back on 5 minutes later and said they are actually exchanging hardware now, which seems to fix the problem 95% of the time. I told him that seemed odd if it was a software and not a hardware issue, but he said that it seems the 9.3 download is screwing up some existing hard drives. Starting with a new drive and downloading 9.3 during setup doesn't seem to exhibit the same problem.


Well, if this is what is happening, I for one would rather go ahead and hack my units with bigger drives than have to deal with the Comcast idiots re-pairing my cable cards. It took those bozos a week to get them working the first time around. They won't do it over the phone in my area.

I wonder exactly what is getting screwed up on the drives. If it's just a screwed up software image or root filesystem that cannot be fixed with future updates from Tivo, the hacker community will probably come to the rescue with a way to fix it. And if it is this widespread, I can't imagine Tivo would complain about a hacker fix too much. It keeps them from having to swap out hardware.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

It voids the warranty, so don't expect TiVo to fix your unit under warranty after you hack it. Other than that, they have never complained about users hacking the TiVo, to my knowledge.


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## andy_hd (Mar 14, 2008)

I was reading this thread this afternoon -- just out of intellectual interest. I then went downstairs and checked the software version on my HD -- yup 9.3a. Well, I thought, I guess I must be lucky since I haven't been having any of the freeze issues.

After mentioning that other people have been seeing issues to my wife, we started to watch a previously recorded SD show. The TiVo immediately froze with the same symptoms as mentioned by everyone else -- video freezes, audio persists for a second or two. You can fast-forward or 30 sec skip -- but that just gets you to a new frozen frame.

Unplugging and rebooting seems to have fixed it for now -- we were able to watch the same recording that previously froze with no problem.

The TiVo is hooked to a Comcast M-Stream card and has an expanded 1 TB WD drive in it. It gets fairly warm as it is in a closed cabinet. But I think the problem is 9.3.a


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

It appears that the cause of the problems isn't 9.3 after all, but reading this forum.


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## steinercat (Nov 16, 2007)

pretty hard (and extremely rare) for software to damage hardware, the only thing that comes to mind is some software causing a component, say a hard drive, to run through endless cycles and causing undue stress or heat.

I still think its a software problem and TiVO indicating otherwise may just be a cop-out to buy some time.

If they did *force* the update and it did damage hardware, this would be a Class Action lawsuit.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

There is not a hardware problem with this specific issue. The fact that a reboot clears it up tells you it is not corrupting the hard drive.  Any TiVo CSR will tell you to replace the box no matter what issue you are having. This is pretty much the solution to any problem they do not know how to address.


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## esb1981 (Dec 2, 2007)

A week ago last Friday this happened to me for the second time. Tivo CSR had me unplug, remove cable cards, put cards back in, then plug the box back in. I haven't had the problem happen since, so it's been fine for 10 days (knock on wood). Anyone else had this kind of success?


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## SteveGoTex (Jan 14, 2005)

After having the "freeze problem" several times over the last several days, I changed how I use the TiVo slightly, and have not seen it since.

Until now, I swapped tuners all the time, when watching live TV, as many of us do, to keep a couple of programs connected to the pause buffer.

The freeze problem seemed to be exacerbated by swapping tuners when one show was at a different video resolution than the other. Without fail, after several tuner swaps, I found the freeze problem start to creep in. First it would prevent playback of standard def recorded programs, then it would spread to hi def recorded programs, and finally to live tv. If any recordings were being made, they still recorded ok.

After a reboot everything would be ok until I swapped tuners some more.

Since all of this, I stopped swapping tuners, altogether, and have not had a freeze problem in three full days and counting.

I suspect the problem is still there, and is related to connecting the playback to one of the tuners, flushing the live buffers or whatever. This latest release must have introduced some kind of timing problem in that.

Curtailing the use of the tuner swap, in my case, is probably just reducing the number of times the Tivo has to perform this risky action, but enough so that I have not had a freeze up, as I said in 3+ days.

If it really is a timing problem in the software, then this may or may not help you, but it might.

Just FYI.


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## jkbrowne (Dec 14, 2005)

Interesting. Steve, do you have your TivoHD set to a fixed or hybrid output resolution? Mine is set to 1080i fixed. In my case, when I discover my TivoHD has "freeze framed" is when I first turn on the TV after getting home at night. Both tuners will have a static image but the menus still work. I'm wondering if just the normal activity of the Tivo changing channels for recording purposes during the day can trigger it also.


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## CallieBrady (Dec 30, 2007)

that is wht tivo told me was the issue. I got a new card, same problem within 24 hours.

If we reboot, it will be fine for 24 hours or so, then start again.


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## knownzero (Feb 26, 2001)

SteveGoTex said:


> After having the "freeze problem" several times over the last several days, I changed how I use the TiVo slightly, and have not seen it since.
> 
> Until now, I swapped tuners all the time, when watching live TV, as many of us do, to keep a couple of programs connected to the pause buffer.
> 
> ...


I rarely, if ever, swap tuners and haven't seen the freeze problem after swapping tuners. In my case it's always after turning the TV on/off and coming back to it later.

datapoint: also set to 1080i


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

When I got home from work on Friday and turned the tv on I had a frozen picture. This is the first time. When I swapped tuners and came back everything was fine. But if I tried to use any Trick Play keys it would freeze again. I rebooted and everything was fine until tonight.

Got home from work and had the freeze frame again. Same symptoms, swap tuners would unfreeze it and Trick Play keys would freeze it back up. However, this time after swapping tuners for the fourth time, TiVo rebooted itself. When it came back up I had the GSOD. I'm waiting for the results right now.

This is a S3 connected to Mits DLP with HDMI and set at 1080 Fixed.

Later Edit: well the "3 hour GSOD repair" took 15 minutes and everything seems to be OK now.


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## CallieBrady (Dec 30, 2007)

We can't watch HD channels now. They freeze. I will reboot later. Very frustrating. Sure seems like a buffer issue. We do not switch tuners.


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## PooperScooper (Aug 22, 2007)

Ok, so I'm not alone. I just restarted my TivoHD for the 3rd time in about a week because of the freeze issue described here. Since it was starting to happen frequently I decided to see if the FW had changed and it is 9.3a which didn't seem to be the last version I recalled and hence the trip here. I believe the "hardware issue" is bull. Why did so many units not have the problem with the previous software? I was having basically no problems except for the "stutter" issue that happened maybe every 4-5 weeks and a reboot cured. Every 2 or 3 days is big difference.  My only unit mod is a WD 1TB drive.

larry


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## tharry (May 2, 2008)

I just talked to tech support and the freezing/rebooting issues seems to be a harddrive issue with some t3's. Unplug your cable, then reboot, then plug cable back in and tune to a HD channel. If your t3 freezes when you plug the cable in, then you have the harddrive issue.

They do a swap at no charge. I was told by the tech person that this issue with the swap as a resolution just came accross his desk today.

I also had to talk to a second level person. The first person I talked to did not have a clue. Keep pushing to talk to someone who knows what is going on.


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## stachercom (Jan 24, 2008)

Ok, got the same problem on two HD units, one is new, less than 6 months old and the other is a refurb less than 3 months old. Both are running 9.3a and are showing the same problem, somewhat randomly, but it is getting more problematic on the refurb than the "new" unit. I did discover that if I transfer the problem show to the other tivo it will playback fine. Sorry, this solution will only work if you have two units and they are linked together for show transfers. Maybe this will help prove it's a software problem and Tivo can dianose the solution faster. Sounds like the ultimate solution is to call and have them replaced by Tivo. Good thing I kept the boxes, too bad I'm going to loose all of my settings and season passes.


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## jkbrowne (Dec 14, 2005)

tharry said:


> Unplug your cable, then reboot, then plug cable back in and tune to a HD channel. If your t3 freezes when you plug the cable in, then you have the harddrive issue.


So, just to clarify, is it supposed to freeze when you plug the cable back in or when you tune to a HD channel?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

tharry said:


> I just talked to tech support and the freezing/rebooting issues seems to be a harddrive issue with some t3's. Unplug your cable, then reboot, then plug cable back in and tune to a HD channel. If your t3 freezes when you plug the cable in, then you have the harddrive issue.


As mentioned before in this thread, the issue you are describing is NOT the issue posted here. To clarify, the issue being discussed here is not a hard drive issue. Please do not confuse the 2 issues.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

rainwater said:


> As mentioned before in this thread, the issue you are describing is NOT the issue posted here. To clarify, the issue being discussed here is not a hard drive issue. Please do not confuse the 2 issues.


Actually the symptoms described in the first post as well as a number of others could very well be a hard drive issue.


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## tharry (May 2, 2008)

rainwater said:


> As mentioned before in this thread, the issue you are describing is NOT the issue posted here. To clarify, the issue being discussed here is not a hard drive issue. Please do not confuse the 2 issues.


These are the same issues. The things described earilier and the rebooting are all the same, at least that is now what Tivo is telling me.


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## tharry (May 2, 2008)

jkbrowne said:


> So, just to clarify, is it supposed to freeze when you plug the cable back in or when you tune to a HD channel?


I found that when I plugged the cable back in, the tivo tuner was already set to a HD channel. So when I plugged in the cable, within a 10 seconds, the video would freeze. If I let the tivo run, it would reboot within 5 minutes. Also, if the screen is stuck on a tivo menu, unplug the cable. In @30 seconds, the menus start to work and the tivo does not appear to be slow. But plug the cable back in and the freezing starts.

That is what Tivo says is a hard drive issue and is swapping units for you.


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## thoku (May 6, 2008)

The consensus is that Tivo know about this problem. I experienced it, and they sent a replacement TivoHD. The replacement worked for three days, then it installed the 9.3a software update and the problem started again!

Amazingly, when I called Tivo back they insisted I go through basic troubleshooting again and blamed the CableCard. 

What is the best way to identify this issue to Tivo CSRs in such a way that they recognize it as this supposedly known issue with the 9.3 software update?


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## stachercom (Jan 24, 2008)

Just to make sure I'm on the same page. The problem I'm having is when I play back recorded HD Video (I don't record SD so can't test with that) the picture will freeze less than 2 seconds into the playback, the audio will continue for about 5-6 seconds after that, then the whole video freezes. I can fast forward/rewind through the video, but as soon as I hit play, it does the same thing. After this starts happening, if I switch to live TV the same thing happens to the Live TV, on both tuners. I don't have a cable card and I only record HD over the air, blocked out the SD channels. If I reboot the problem seems to clear itself only to return at a later time. It seems that it only goes into this mode when I record on both tuners at the same time with different resolutions, 1080i and 720i, I have not tested this theory yet, or the specific resolutions combinations but based on a previous posting related to this concept both of my units seem to follow that pattern.

So... two HD units, running 9.3a, without cable cards, have the same symptoms. I can transfer shows and get around the problem, or I can reboot and get around the problem.

Update:
Just checked a little more: Seems to be 720p and 1080i on different tuners. House (FOX) at 720p and Two 1/2 Men (CBS) at 1080i. I don't have a 720p source broadcasting right now so I can't confirm.


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## bobquin (Apr 5, 2004)

I started experiencing this problem the day after receiving my Series 3 DVR. After hours of pointless calls with CSR, a number of "Kickstarts," etc., I've had enough. It's going back tomorrow. Good riddance to a nightmarish experience.


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## tharry (May 2, 2008)

stachercom said:


> Just to make sure I'm on the same page. The problem I'm having is when I play back recorded HD Video (I don't record SD so can't test with that) the picture will freeze less than 2 seconds into the playback, the audio will continue for about 5-6 seconds after that, then the whole video freezes. I can fast forward/rewind through the video, but as soon as I hit play, it does the same thing. After this starts happening, if I switch to live TV the same thing happens to the Live TV, on both tuners. I don't have a cable card and I only record HD over the air, blocked out the SD channels. If I reboot the problem seems to clear itself only to return at a later time. It seems that it only goes into this mode when I record on both tuners at the same time with different resolutions, 1080i and 720i, I have not tested this theory yet, or the specific resolutions combinations but based on a previous posting related to this concept both of my units seem to follow that pattern.
> 
> So... two HD units, running 9.3a, without cable cards, have the same symptoms. I can transfer shows and get around the problem, or I can reboot and get around the problem.
> 
> ...


My issue is not only with recorded HD programs, but now even watching live HD programs.


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## jkbrowne (Dec 14, 2005)

I haven't had the issue with recorded programs (yet). The only time I've witnessed my two TivoHD units "freeze frame" is on live TV.

How often are you guys experiencing the freeze? My two TivoHD units have been fine for 3 days now, which is about the longest they've gone so I expect to be resetting one or both of them tomorrow.

Also, just so everyone is aware, there is another thread on the Tivo support forums regarding this issue. On page 2 of this thread, there is a fellow who posted that Tivo support replaced his TivoHD unit and referred to the same "hard drive issue" mentioned above. Not sure if that is you tharry, but I figured I'd post the link so everyone can check it out:

http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/fo...rrentPage=1&rootPostID=10375748&showPostBody=

Has anyone else had a Tivo support person mention the "hard drive issue"?


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

jkbrowne said:


> I haven't had the issue with recorded programs (yet). The only time I've witnessed my two TivoHD units "freeze frame" is on live TV.
> 
> How often are you guys experiencing the freeze? My two TivoHD units have been fine for 3 days now, which is about the longest they've gone so I expect to be resetting one or both of them tomorrow.
> 
> ...


Interesting. I almost completely forget that they have their own forum. A couple of folks are talking about another cure...blowing out all of the dust that's accumulated on the circuit board, causing things to go haywire. (I can't imagine what their power supply/fan must look like. ) I remember a computer that I once had which began to get very temperamental. I finally opened the case and it was pretty ugly in there. I vacuumed it all out and it behaved from then on. It's always something I guess. Worth I try I suppose though.


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## steinercat (Nov 16, 2007)

From that thread jkbrowne linked:

_ 
It's a software problem. Tivo is aware of it, but has no estimated fix time. I was told it could take a few days or up to a month to fix. Call them and let them know you also have the problem._

Its not dust as there have already been people with new or month-old THD units who are experiencing the same freeezing problems. Its also hard to imagine there's any exposed circuitry inside the S3 which is the only way dust would be a factor. Unless you have a pound of dust in there that's causing the HD and microchips to overheat. But the chances of the majority of us with the same symptoms having that large amount of dust in the THD, and overheating coincidentally coinciding with the release of 9.3a....is...


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## cdeckert219 (Jan 7, 2006)

I've been quietly reading the threads regarding TiVoHDs and the 9.3 upgrade and figured it was about time to add a "me, too."

I have two boxes that are only a month old... am experiencing the freeze problem on both. Happens intermittently with both live and "Now Playing" programs. Happens with both HD and SD programs. Definitely not a dust problem with mine. They were working fine until about a week or so after the 9.3 upgrade. I'm not experiencing the problem on my Humax... at least that I am aware (don't use that one much).

I did a reboot and live and recently recorded stuff seems to work, but there are a couple recorded shows that just flat out won't play without freezing. I can ff and rew through them, but play freezes.


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## jkbrowne (Dec 14, 2005)

> Its not dust as there have already been people with new or month-old THD units who are experiencing the same freeezing problems. Its also hard to imagine there's any exposed circuitry inside the S3 which is the only way dust would be a factor. Unless you have a pound of dust in there that's causing the HD and microchips to overheat. But the chances of the majority of us with the same symptoms having that large amount of dust in the THD, and overheating coincidentally coinciding with the release of 9.3a....is...


I agree that it's not dust. My two TivoHD units are only a month old.


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## Ed_Hunt (Jan 2, 2004)

I just started having the problem three days ago on one of my HD Tivos. The other is fine for now. This can't be a hardrive issue since it is happening to people with both stock drives and with upgraded, bigger, drives. I reboot and all is well for a day, then starts again. Happens on recorded or live shows. FF works for 2 seconds and stops, rewind works for 2 seconds, stops.


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## jkbrowne (Dec 14, 2005)

Ed_Hunt said:


> I just started having the problem three days ago on one of my HD Tivos. The other is fine for now. This can't be a hardrive issue since it is happening to people with both stock drives and with upgraded, bigger, drives. I reboot and all is well for a day, then starts again. Happens on recorded or live shows. FF works for 2 seconds and stops, rewind works for 2 seconds, stops.


Nobody has been able to confirm exactly what the hard drive issue really means. I think when Tivo says you have a hard drive issue they really mean you have a software issue on your hard drive that cannot be fixed remotely by Tivo pushing down a software update. Or, maybe they cannot nail down the cause and they are just collecting affected units to help with diagnosis. Who knows...


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Please...I don't think it's a dust problem either and said as much. That came from someone on the TiVo.com forum...thought it was interesting. All of our TiVo's, both upgraded and stock, have been working fine through many, many upgrades. IMHO we're not lucky, we're the norm. For anyone that's been here for any period of time, you know that there are always a flurry of complaints after every upgrade and then things calm down. Some boxes are fixed, others are not...it may be new to you, but it's really nothing new.

There are posted "fixes" that have resolved things for a number of folks. If you aren't up for that send your TiVo back for a replacement. Should you have to fix it or return it after an upgrade? Of course not. But all of us would like to hear another option. If you're content to sit back and wait for someone else to resolve the problem that's fine too. Let TiVo know how you feel and live without it for as long as you can stand it. 

If you "know" what is causing your particular problem please let the other TiVo engineers you work with know that a bunch of folks out here are ticked off!


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## chewy2314 (Sep 11, 2003)

Well, add me to the list. It has been about 2 months since I got the refurbed TivoHD (new 750Gb Samsung F1 drive installed) and about 1 1/2 weeks since Multistream card installed. First time experienced the locked video issue in SD recorded programs. HD recorded programs played fine. I had to reboot the box. Now I did have ANT as a source, but no antennae was installed, so I reran the guided setup for only cable source. I'll post if we get the problem again. Video setting: 1080i Hybrid. OS: 9.3a.

PS. I didn't have any issues running without CC's. (okay, issue with GSOD when I messed with output resolution)


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

chewy2314 said:


> PS. I didn't have any issues running without CC's. (okay, issue with GSOD when I messed with output resolution)


If changing the resolution caused an MFS assert (GSOD) that's nothing to sneeze at (dust reference ). That TiVo marked the file system as being damaged when the resolution was altered may be a key to some of the problems people are seeing.

There are a number of posts regarding problems (freezing, video stutter, etc.) with various resolutions. That's worth some additional exploration IMO.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

richsadams said:


> If changing the resolution caused an MFS assert (GSOD) that's nothing to sneeze at (dust reference ). That TiVo marked the file system as being damaged when the resolution was altered may be a key to some of the problems people are seeing.
> 
> There are a number of posts regarding problems (freezing, video stutter, etc.) with various resolutions. That's worth some additional exploration IMO.


I still wonder if a corrupted file system caused my Tivo to reboot (twice) or if the TiVo reboot caused the corrupted file system.


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## DrBunsen (Jan 1, 2001)

<edit>
Well, unfortunately it finally froze on me this afternoon. It did go longer than usual this time before a freeze, but that may just be coincidence.
</edit>

I don't think that this is the cause of the issue (since I saw one poster who said that he had the problem with a 1-day-old box), but I'll throw it out here anyway.

I've got 2 TiVoHD's, one with a 1TB drive and the other with a 750GB drive. The one with the larger hard-drive started doing the video freeze thing shortly after getting v9.3, but the other one didn't. One thing that I realized that was different between them is that I don't watch nearly as much stuff on the one with the smaller drive, so there's a lot less in the "Recently Deleted" folder. I was at the point where the 1TB unit was freezing every 2 or 3 days. When it happened 2 days in a row I decided to clear out the 80+ shows in the "Recently Deleted" folder. It's been doing fine for the past 4 or 5 days. The hard-drive was full before I did the deletions because I know that I'd seen it have over 90 shows in the Recently Deleted folder, so as the NP list grew more shows were being hard-deleted to make room

Like I said, there's a good chance that it's just a coincidence, and that it'll be frozen when I get home tomorrow, but I decided to report it just in case any of you wanted to fiddle with that angle. I'll post again, and/or modify this post, if it starts freezing again. I wish I'd deleted the shows while it was doing the freeze thing to see if it cleared it up, but unfortunately I did it right after a reboot.

Bunsen


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## tberry61 (Nov 26, 2005)

Had this problem with my year old S3. Called it in, waited for a fix and finally just shut the Tivo down bypassing it. A week later Tivo support calls back and asks me to do a kickstart 54 (I think that was it). Found a problem and they asked me to do an exchange. They sent the replacement to me first and I connected it. Showed no problems under 8.1. Then it upgraded to 9.3, still no problems the first day after the upgrade, Bright house came out to connect my cards. They did that yesterday, tonight I'm getting freezes and reboots. I'm assuming that the other unit crashed and rebooted so many times that it finally corrupted the HD. I'm probably headed that way again with this one. What a friggin pain this has become. I've been a 5 year proponent for Tivo but no more. Seeing about a month with this problem and they don't fix it. Give me a break.

Dust? This unit was just shipped from them.


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## jkbrowne (Dec 14, 2005)

I am a long-time proponent of Tivo as well, but the fact they still have not officially acknowledged this issue in a *consistent *manner is very disappointing. We should be able to call Tivo and get the *same* answer no matter which CSR we speak with. Something to the effect of:

Yes, we are aware of the freezing issue you are experiencing with your TivoHD. We are very sorry you are having this issue. The problem is related to the _______ and to minimize the occurrence you can _______. The permanent solution is _______ and we expect to roll that out sometime in the next ________.

Some sort of official response would go a-long way towards keeping people happy and willing to wait this out. Leaving people in the dark or sending them down the "power down and pop the cable card out" goose chase is just not cool.

Communication is the key here.


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## jnk27 (Dec 21, 2001)

I am a long long time TiVo fan, and my Series 1 and Series 2 TiVos are doing just fine. But my S3, which is connected to an analog cable without a box even, has been uselessly slow/frozen since mid-April. TiVo says it is a known problem with no fix yet, and the workaround is to disconnect the cable and restart. That works until I reconnect the cable!

So no S3 for me - it has lifetime so I can't even get a rebate.


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## desmond (May 8, 2008)

having the same problem since the update. i had the cablecard replaced and still the same garbage. why can't they rollback the upgrade?


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

DrBunsen said:


> I don't think that this is the cause of the issue (since I saw one poster who said that he had the problem with a 1-day-old box), but I'll throw it out here anyway.
> 
> I've got 2 TiVoHD's, one with a 1TB drive and the other with a 750GB drive. The one with the larger hard-drive started doing the video freeze thing shortly after getting v9.3, but the other one didn't. One thing that I realized that was different between them is that I don't watch nearly as much stuff on the one with the smaller drive, so there's a lot less in the "Recently Deleted" folder. I was at the point where the 1TB unit was freezing every 2 or 3 days. When it happened 2 days in a row I decided to clear out the 80+ shows in the "Recently Deleted" folder. It's been doing fine for the past 4 or 5 days. The hard-drive was full before I did the deletions because I know that I'd seen it have over 90 shows in the Recently Deleted folder, so as the NP list grew more shows were being hard-deleted to make room
> 
> ...


Actually your theory isn't far-fetched at all. Almost exactly a year ago a number of us began adding eSATA drives to our Series3's with Kickstart 62 (which no longer works). After a period of time quite a few of us noticed that TiVo began slowing down, stuttering and having a few other odd issues. I'm sure I can't take credit for being the first, but I also began permanently deleting recordings from the recently deleted folder. At the time my RD folder was getting up around 250 recordings.

I found that after deleting everything in the RD folder and keeping it "clean" TiVo was its snappy self again. IIRC several others here followed suit and enjoyed the same results. A few folks mused about some technical ideas having to do with some of the root folders having enough allocation and such.

After the TiVo update that allowed eSATA drives to be added via P&P I stopped clearing it out on the theory that the newer software was built to handle the added content. I haven't had any issues since.

Last fall I swapped out the internal for a 1TB drive and removed the eSATA drive. My RD folder hovers around 190 to 200 recordings now, but rarely above that. Again no glitches. It may or may not be a coincidence but in a way I'm not surprised to see this idea pop up again.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

tberry61 said:


> Dust? This unit was just shipped from them.


Oh give it a rest...


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

desmond said:


> Why can't they rollback the upgrade?


If I only had a nickel or dime or something for every time someone said that over the years.  It's never happened and never will.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

tberry61 said:


> Had this problem with my year old S3. Called it in, waited for a fix and finally just shut the Tivo down bypassing it. A week later Tivo support calls back and asks me to do a kickstart 54 (I think that was it). Found a problem and they asked me to do an exchange. <snip>.


KS 54 is a hard drive diagnostic that allows TiVo to view any problems with your hard drive in your/their logs. That they asked you to return it would indicate that your hard drive was the problem.

I can go along with tberry61's theory that after enough data corruption the hard drive cannot recover.


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## steinercat (Nov 16, 2007)

here's my theory....some code in the 9.3a update is causing the cache on the S3 HD not to clear/flush and thus causing the freezes.

some sort of read/write command that has gone terribly wrong. restarting temporarily resolves the issue as it causes the HD's cache to reset/clear.....but obviously, the erroneous command/code repeats itself later on.


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## jimbo1mcm (Jan 8, 2006)

I am thinking class action lawsuit. When you start adding up all the refunds that will be due with a class action, Tivo might start doing something in an expeditious manner. Their communication with their lifeblood, their customers, sucks. Do they have a CEO? Fire his a-- for not being on top of this. And hire some software people who know how to write programs, then TEST them before they put them out.


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## pomerlp (Apr 22, 2008)

jimbo1mcm said:


> I am thinking class action lawsuit. When you start adding up all the refunds that will be due with a class action, Tivo might start doing something in an expeditious manner. Their communication with their lifeblood, their customers, sucks. Do they have a CEO? Fire his a-- for not being on top of this. And hire some software people who know how to write programs, then TEST them before they put them out.


See post 137 by richsadam. 

I pulled the cards out of my S3 the other day. I could not believe the amount of dust on the cards! I really need to take it outside with some canned air. I've also notice the temperature has raised about 5 degrees since I first got it. And I haven't had it but for a few months.

But I am not experiencing any freeze up problems. I'm definitely taking it outside this weekend and giving it a blow job.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

jimbo1mcm said:


> I am thinking class action lawsuit.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

pomerlp said:


> See post 137 by richsadams.
> 
> I pulled the cards out of my S3 the other day. I could not believe the amount of dust on the cards! I really need to take it outside with some canned air. I've also notice the temperature has raised about 5 degrees since I first got it. And I haven't had it but for a few months.
> 
> But I am not experiencing any freeze up problems. I'm definitely taking it outside this weekend and giving it a blow job.


LMAO!


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Cable cards to blame? (At least sometimes?)


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## bobquin (Apr 5, 2004)

richsadams said:


>


Yes, because it's completely ludicrous to consider suing a company that will sell you a $600 product and let you take it home, knowing full well that the moment you connect your cable's coax connection to the unit, it will freeze and become utterly useless.



The fact that TiVo hasn't officially acknowledged an issue which is rendering its product virtually useless for a large portion of its subscriber base is frankly unacceptable.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

bobquin said:


> Yes, because it's completely ludicrous to consider suing a company that will sell you a $600 product and let you take it home, knowing full well that the moment you connect your cable's coax connection to the unit, it will freeze and become utterly useless.


I think it was last month that our broker sent us a settlement notice for a multi-million dollar class action lawsuit (that I somehow participated in ) against a Fortune 50 Insurance company. My share was $3.20. (Wonder what the attorney's got?) All I had to do was complete another four-part document and FedEx it back to get my money. If you're lucky and some lawyer tried hard enough they might be able to put TiVo out of business...for bugs in their software...affecting _some _people...but not me. Yeah, that's what they deserve. 

Good luck with that. 



bobquin said:


> The fact that TiVo hasn't officially acknowledged an issue which is rendering its product virtually useless for a large portion of its subscriber base is frankly unacceptable.


 "Large portion"?  Like the dozen or two here? Maybe dozens or...maybe even hundreds more that never made it here? Out of four-million subscribers and thousands, no, tens of thousands of Series3's and TiVo HD's in the wild? Please.


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## rickmeoff (Aug 25, 2006)

richsadams said:


> "Large portion"?  Like the dozen or two here? Maybe dozens or...maybe even hundreds more that never made it here? Out of four-million subscribers and thousands, no, tens of thousands of Series3's and TiVo HD's in the wild? Please.


i would guess that this probably *is* affecting a 'large portion' of their customers since it seems to be a sw issue. just because they havent posted here doesnt mean they arent having the problem.


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## englishguy (May 8, 2008)

My TivoHD is 4 months old. It has 9.3a, but I am not sure when it was upgraded. It got the freeze symptoms a couple of days ago. I rebooted, and it has been fine since. I receive OTA only - no cable, so I don't think this problem is related to cable cards.


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## raney (Jan 2, 2008)

We have other discussion threads for the same problem:

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=376153

Clearly this is a software issue.

Is everyone with the issue using 9.3 software and 1080i fixed output?

thx


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## englishguy (May 8, 2008)

confirmed - 9.3a, 1080i fixed


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## rethinking (Apr 30, 2008)

Class action lawsuits are rarely about being compensated for your loss, but are more about principles. Holding a company responsible for it's actions. And while you only get around $5.00 for your trouble, the company may lose millions. And usually you participate, not for the money, but for getting to say Im mad as hell and Im not going to take it any more! And yes, the people who make out on the deal are usually lawyers, but one mans miseryis almost always another mans profit. Why single out lawyers?
But companies should be held accountable when they cause damage to customers products. Whether you want to argue that there was something wrong with the software (9.3 update) Tivo sent to our machines or not is merely semantics. The fact is whatever they sent disabled our machines. Whether it exposed flaws already there or not, in most of these cases our Tivos were working fine before the download. And as far as I can tell, the only common thread in all these problems. According to some, this happens almost every time Tivo sends out updates to some degree. And if it causes a problem, we are left to solve it ourselves, via your pro active forums. (Do you think that if I had hacked into my Tivo that the customer support would even be speaking to me about my problem now? ) Why doesnt it ask us before it gives us software updates? Almost all other software does.
I should get the choice of saying, no thank you, Id rather have a working Tivo with less features than a broken one. Im getting a little tired of being dismissed by helpers on these forums, because they dont have the problem or cant solve it. I must dispute that there are only dozens of us with this same problem, (although how many dozens do there have to be before we count?) While few may post, it looks like many read. You tend to be a little hard on newbies. 
I think Tivo knows it has us over the proverbial barrel, here. We love our Tivos and have significant investments in their equipment. Should we throw away our $600 boxes and start over? Why are they still giving people different answers about they real problem? What about the poor guy who got the replacement and it still doesnt work, yet another faulty hard drive? For most of us, without a Tivo, we cant even watch TV. Im going on 3 weeks.
"I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!"
As a side note, did anybody see this:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=393004
Now, if I want to negotiate any kind of compensation for the damage to my $600 box, Ill have to start a lot lower.


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## Lrscpa (Apr 20, 2003)

Nope - I have the problem and I am running the Tivo on "Native".


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## jkbrowne (Dec 14, 2005)

I'm running 1080i fixed too on both my TivoHDs. I'm not 100% positive, but I think I was having the problem before switching to 1080i fixed. I'm thinking it was one of the reasons I changed to this mode - to see if the freezing problem would go away. It also made changing channels faster and without the annoying "screen jiggle" that you get when it changes resolutions. If the 1080i begins to look like the issue then I will certainly change it back to native and give that a try.

On the other hand, this issue is *very *difficult to diagnose. People clean the dust out of their Tivos and if it doesn't freeze in a-couple of days they blame the dust.  Or, they do the cable card shuffle per Tivo recommendations and blame it on that if it doesn't freeze for a-couple of days afterwards. In my case, I haven't done anything at all to mine other than keeping things deleted, and they just quit freezing on their own. I haven't had a freeze in 5 days so in my case I'm not ready to blame it on the 1080i fixed resolution. I think I'm going to let one of the units fill up with recordings to see what it does.


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## VB_nut (May 8, 2008)

Add me to the list.... 

Same symtoms on a stock HD Tivo purchased in Oct '07. Two cablecards, 1080i fixed output, WD external HD.

No problems until a couple of days ago....


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## jimbo1mcm (Jan 8, 2006)

Got the Series 3 this week, but why would I want to expose my beautiful looking Tivo to a software VIRUS!!!!!!! I guess I will just put it on a pedestal and look at it, until someone with some brainpower at Tivo figures out how to fix this problem!!!


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

jimbo1mcm said:


> Got the Series 3 this week, but why would I want to expose my beautiful looking Tivo to a software VIRUS!!!!!!! I guess I will just put it on a pedestal and look at it, until someone with some brainpower at Tivo figures out how to fix this problem!!!


Are you saying that you are not going to even try to connect it until this problem is solved?  A problem that very likely will not even experience!

Although there are many grim stories on this thread, the vast majority of S3 users are not experiencing it at all.


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## anoneemus (Jul 29, 2004)

Lrscpa said:


> Nope - I have the problem and I am running the Tivo on "Native".


me too


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## raney (Jan 2, 2008)

Just restarted my S3 again today.

It is hard to believe that only a few of us are having the problem.

This is the first time I ever experienced any trouble from either Tivo. I have an S2 and the S3 and they have been great. I am sure we will get a silent fix soon.


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## ToddNeedsTiVo (Sep 2, 2003)

I'm having the stutter problem on my THD these last couple weeks. It was purchased in October 2007. I use analog cable, digital OTA, no CableCARDs, and 1080i fixed output via HDMI to my television.

I've rebooted it 2 or 3 times in this period. Tonight, my wife completed a program, deleted it at the prompt, hit live tv once, hit it again to see what was on the other tuner, and a third time to return to the first tuner. At that point, it spontaneously rebooted itself. During Lost, no less! Fortunately, the old S2 still records that, so we got to walk around the house to see all the pieces of tonight's episode.

Another issue we've been having for about the same length of time involves our guide data. Normally, one can page up/page down and browse things in the guide. However, on ours, if channel 18 happens comes into view, one cannot continue to page up/down. It is necessary to then punch in digits to get to another portion of the channel lineup, and then page up/down all you want...until you come back to channel 18. Very bizarre.


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## jimbo1mcm (Jan 8, 2006)

I think that most people are having problems with this, not just a few. We verbalize these problems on this forum. Other people are probably not aware of this forum and are just calling CSR. I have 3 other Tivo's, Sony upgraded series 1 and 2, so I am just going to wait for awhile.


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## viddiction (May 6, 2008)

Video Freeze is something really remarkable in any sort of format and i wish to have something like the time slice technology in our players for better picture viewing.


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## bbhart (May 3, 2008)

Spoke with TiVo support again on Monday and they had me RMA the box. 

This problem reeks of software, not dust or heat or any other environental factor. From my experiences (YMMV), system-wide pauses or freezups in Linux are typically caused by some un-interruptible I/O driver, like the hard disk driver. In my case, the box seems to run fine for 5-10 minutes after reboot, then degrades into worthlessness quickly, so maybe some cache or buffer is filling up. A hardware problem would more likely manifest itself immediately, if it allows the box to boot at all.

We'll see what happens with the new box. I can guarantee you I'll be paying close attention to the software versions.


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## djvictor69 (Feb 20, 2004)

This is my first time posting here, but I felt that I should chime in too. I just bought my first Tivo ever, the HD model, and one of the first things I did was change the internal drive to a 1TB Seagate last weekend. Anyway, last night while watching a recorded program, the video started to freeze up and then the audio would freeze shortly after. My initial reaction was that the hard drive I installed must be the problem, but now after seeing this thread, I'm going to assume it is a software problem. Not sure if it matters, but I also have a WD MyDVR Expander attached.

By the way, I am also experiencing the problem while watching live TV too.


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## ITGuy72 (Aug 10, 2005)

viddiction said:


> Video Freeze is something really remarkable in any sort of format and i wish to have something like the time slice technology in our players for better picture viewing.


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## MOINME (Mar 25, 2008)

Add another shiny new Series 3 TiVo HD with version 9.3 SW to the list of those having the "Picture Freezes" problem and a restart seems to be the only current fix. The old Series 2 HUMAX it replaced was rock steady for over 5 years, but SD is old tech now so time to move on. Currently working with COMCAST New England first to get a Cable Card issue resolved because we get a Cable Card error code 161-10 every time the TiVo picture freezes. Have had COMCAST send a "refresh hit" but it doesn't seem to solve much. The TiVo restart works but it's a temporary thing for the larger problem. Are they working on a new SW release that is specific to this or at least includes a fix for this? Hope so, because the normally sweet wife was close to throwing it out the window last night when it froze during one of her fav shows! Have a case # with TiVo and will talk with them soon about this and will keep a close eye on the progress of resolving this issue.


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## CallieBrady (Dec 30, 2007)

I cleared my deleted shows, rebooted, and it worked like a dream - for about 15 hours. It is back to pausing again.


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## anoneemus (Jul 29, 2004)

It sounds like most people are instigating the reboot themselves as a temporary fix. When mine freezes up I let it sit for a minute or two and it reboots itself. Anyone else's doing that?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

anoneemus said:


> It sounds like most people are instigating the reboot themselves as a temporary fix. When mine freezes up I let it sit for a minute or two and it reboots itself. Anyone else's doing that?


If the GUI completely locks up or the TiVo gets in a bad state where, it will reboot itself in a few minutes. Normally it doesn't do so unless everything freezes (including the menus).


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## imreolajos (Jan 27, 2005)

raney said:


> Is everyone with the issue using 9.3 software and 1080i fixed output?


9.3 with Native output (or whatever the heck it's called exactly).


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

From what I've seen it seems many people reporting the freeze problem have external drive added or upgraded internal drive installed. Are there people with no external drive added (before or after software upgrade) and the original drive that came with your Tivo(s) having this issue?


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

My dad's Tivo HD (which he's _loved_ for about a month) just exhibited this behavior for the first time. I told him it might happen every few days. This was not met with amusement.


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## jkbrowne (Dec 14, 2005)

I have two TivoHD units, both purchased about a-month ago, and they are both having this freeze/pause issue. They are totally stock, no external drive expansion, no internal drive upgrades, no hacks. One has a wireless network adapter and one is plugged into the phone line.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

In case you didn't catch the other thread, TivoStephen acknowledged the problem and is asking anyone experiencing this for some help:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6266120#post6266120


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## HazelW (Dec 6, 2007)

For what its worth, I have two TiVo HDs both with external drives and have not has any problems whatsover since getting 9.3a. And one gets used pretty hard.


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## h0mi (Dec 29, 2007)

I am encountering a similar issue. The tivo freezes on live tv after a second. Some channels are immediate, others can go for ~10 seconds before freezing.

_Ive not had any issue with recording or playback at all_ surprisingly. Just live tv. A reboot fixes this for ... a week? Not sure how long.

I have the WD My DVR drive and no other changes or mods to my tivo HD.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

moyekj said:


> In case you didn't catch the other thread, TivoStephen acknowledged the problem and is asking anyone experiencing this for some help:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6266120#post6266120


This should really be a sticky....


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## JustAllie (Jan 5, 2002)

moyekj said:


> From what I've seen it seems many people reporting the freeze problem have external drive added or upgraded internal drive installed. Are there people with no external drive added (before or after software upgrade) and the original drive that came with your Tivo(s) having this issue?


Yes. Both of my TiVos (a Series3 and a TiVoHD) have this problem, and I haven't upgraded either one in any way. It seems to have started this week.


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## kucharsk (Feb 2, 2007)

I use my S3 with OTA (no cable cards, OTA only) and have never seen a freeze with 9.3a recording and watching about 20 hours of programming a week.

On the other hand my Dad has seen it on his TiVO HD, so I'm wondering if the S3 is somehow less susceptible.


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## JustAllie (Jan 5, 2002)

kucharsk said:


> I use my S3 with OTA (no cable cards, OTA only) and have never seen a freeze with 9.3a recording and watching about 20 hours of programming a week.
> 
> On the other hand my Dad has seen it on his TiVO HD, so I'm wondering if the S3 is somehow less susceptible.


My S3 is affected.

I have CableCARDs, though, so maybe that's an issue.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

moyekj said:


> In case you didn't catch the other thread, TivoStephen acknowledged the problem and is asking anyone experiencing this for some help:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6266120#post6266120


Thanks for that moyekj and I agree with dig_duggler...it absolutely s/b a sticky. :up:

*Anyone that's experiencing the problem should follow TiVoStephen's advice...*



TiVoStephen said:


> Folks,
> 
> We're sorry to hear about this issue, and we've been researching it. We need your help in understanding and solving the problem, however. If you regularly experience this issue, can you please follow these steps on the next freeze:
> 
> ...


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

A number of people have "fixed" the coax freeze/lockup issue on their Series3's by re-imaging or replacing their hard drives (using WinMFS) as detailed on the Series 3 lock-up problems thread. (Check the more recent posts as the same problems were being experienced over nine months ago...long before the most recent upgrade came out.)

At least one forum member recently found that his TiVo hard drive passed the standard diagnostic tests when connected to his PC. However after trying an extended read/write test he found that the drive failed the write test. (Very slow writing...which explains the stuttering, freezing and locking up when the coax is attached, particularly w/high-def signals.) More here and here.

The downside is that (at this time) DVRUpgrade still doesn't offer a new image (Instant Cake) for TiVo HD's, but you should have no trouble pulling the existing image from your original hard drive with WinMFS...a very easy program to use BTW.

Re-imaging or replacing your TiVo HD's hard drive may sound drastic to some newer folks and I agree no one should have to do that to get their TiVo back in working order, but for those that are interested it may be worth trying. Plus this may be a perfect opportunity to replace the TiVo HD's meager drive with something much larger...like TiVo should have included in the first place.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

rethinking said:


> Class action lawsuits are rarely about being compensated for your loss, but are more about principles. Holding a company responsible for it's actions. <snip>


I think we agree on most points. No one should have to do anything out of the ordinary to keep their CE equipment in working order. If a company pushes out an upgrade that causes problems, the onus is on the company to repair the problem. Companies should be held accountable for their products. Couldn't agree more.

Now for the real world. How's that theory working for people using Windows Vista? Or for [insert name of any computer software/hardware manufacturer here] pushing software downloads/upgrades into the wild? Cableco's? Television manufacturers? Auto makers? You get my drift. Most of us live in the real world and stuff happens. If people choose not to do anything and expect someone else (be it a company or lawyers) to solve their problems, that's fine, but they may be in for a long wait. It's been 19 years and the folks at Exxon are still in court over the Valdez.  And that actually caused some serious damage and harm.

Others choose to be part of the solution (at least on a local level) and do something to make things better. People on this forum that offer their time and support, "helpers" as you call them, have no obligation to anyone to do so. Sometimes the ideas and suggestions work and life is good again. Other times you get what you pay for. There are in fact fixes that have addressed the issues discussed here. They may or may not work for you or anyone else. Others have had to wait for an upgrade or replace their TiVo's. Those are the real world options.

When all of us signed up for TiVo service we agreed to their Terms of Service. In about ten years TiVo has never given anyone the option to accept or reject an upgrade as part of their service. It would be nice if they did, but I don't expect them to change their MO after a decade.

We do disagree on how many people these issues may or may not be affecting or what to do about them. There's really no reason to believe that they are affecting any more people now than in months or years past based on the number of posts on this particular thread or others. This isn't being hard on "newbies" it's just a reality check. Many of us have been here long enough to know how things work. You can certainly theorize and believe anything you'd like of course. We can agree to disagree.

Believe it or not, you're not the first to be frustrated (understandably so) and suggest a class-action lawsuit. You won't be the last. Bottom line is that it's never happened and IMHO never will. It is a DVR after all, not much to do with life or death situations. But I guess "harm" is in the eyes of the beholder.

BTW, if you paid $600 for your TiVo HD, I have a bridge around here somewhere...  Best of luck and keep us posted on your progress toward some customer satisfaction.


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## wtb (Dec 15, 2000)

I have started having this happen to my TiVo HD with External WD drive this past Saturday (yesterday). After rebooting, it starts working but after a while it messes up. I've rebooted it 3 times so far. I also have an M-Card.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

wtb said:


> I have started having this happen to my TiVo HD with External WD drive this past Saturday (yesterday). After rebooting, it starts working but after a while it messes up. I've rebooted it 3 times so far. I also have an M-Card.


First I would follow TiVoStephan's instructions. More info here as well.

Have you tried rebooting it w/o the coax attached? If so, does it work properly (normal menu speed, plays recordings, etc.)? If it does it may indicate a hard drive problem. It could be either drive.

If TiVo runs normally with the coax disconnected the next step would be to try re-seating the eSATA cable. (You might even try removing the cable and reversing the connection.) It should be snug on both ends. If it's loose it can cause all sorts of issues. If the cable is loose no matter what (and that's been reported w/WD's My DVR Expander many times) you can try replacing it with one of the recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cables which is less than $10. After re-seating or replacing the cable, try running TiVo with the coax connected again.

If it's still problematic you can run TiVo's built-in diagnostic programs called "Kickstarts". If that doesn't work you'd need to determine if the external drive is causing the problem. You'll need to properly remove and divorce the external drive to see if TiVo behaves normally...

1. Unplug TiVo
2. Unplug and disconnect the external drive
3. Plug TiVo back in and follow the on-screen instructions.

Unfortunately all recordings made since connecting the drive will be lost. (If you need to save any you can transfer them to your PC via TiVo Desktop.)

If nothing changes after disconnecting your eSATA drive you could try running a drive diagnostic program such as the WD Lifeguard Diagnostic. I'd try it on the external drive first and then the internal.

If you find a hard drive issue you can replace it yourself or of course the other option is to call TiVo and see if they'll send you a replacement eSATA drive and/or TiVo HD. (Generally you'd need to go through Western Digital to get a replacement My DVR Expander, but a few have had success with getting TiVo to send a new one.) Others may have some more suggestions as well.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes. :up:


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## stretch35 (Nov 9, 2007)

KJW said:


> Is everyone on this thread using an HDMI connection? Anyone experiencing this problem with component cables? Just a thought.


my tivohd has this problem when watch live hd ota buffer freezes still image no sound it also happens if i watch a hd live as it is being recorded..started longer ago than 9.3 and after wd expander added..no hdmi no cablecards, analog cable, and hd ota...even thou the live picture may freeze up , hd recording continue to record..if I wait till recording is done then reboot system, the full recording is there waiting for me with nothing dropped out to ever indicate tivohd was unable to show me live..never had a problem with playback of an alredy stored program. never a problem with analog cable..the reboot often lasted at least a week until today where it only lasted 1hour.tech supportwanted me to divorce the wd external drive ( they didn't seem to realize I'd loose all recordings made since it was added..)tech had me trying to isolate out their wireless g .but this thing may take weeks to fail again wo how can you say what is at fault. I do use component connection


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## stretch35 (Nov 9, 2007)

anoneemus said:


> It sounds like most people are instigating the reboot themselves as a temporary fix. When mine freezes up I let it sit for a minute or two and it reboots itself. Anyone else's doing that?


no help it just sits there until i unplug. I can watch recorded stuff after mine freezes on live hd menus work fine ,,no cablcards no hdmi, wd tivo approved expander stock esata cable


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## stretch35 (Nov 9, 2007)

when did 9.3 come out and did this load on its own seems like i thought that the software that turned on esata port it had a screen that told you it was there waiting for you to say yes before it loaded,,i'm on wireless for tivo service..


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## raney (Jan 2, 2008)

I have exactly the same experience. Please email your Tivo Service ID to [email protected].

Then when your Tivo has the problem, press 7 7 7 clear (this writes an entry to your system log file)

Then force a connection to the Tivo service (I think it is Messages & Settings -> Settings -> Phone & Network)

Then force a connection again (this will make sure all log information is transfered to Tivo)

Stephen can enable enhanced logging on your system so we can solve this issue.

Thank You for the help! If they get enough data, they can fix this problem.


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## JustAllie (Jan 5, 2002)

My TiVoHD in the basement was basically useless yesterday because of this issue (or something like it). I hope they get a fix soon. Luckily I have a DVD player down there, too, so I could entertain myself with DVDs instead. 

The Series3 upstairs had a similar issue earlier, but I'm watching NUMB3RS now without incident, so I guess it's intermittent.


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## cdeckert219 (Jan 7, 2006)

JustAllie said:


> My TiVoHD in the basement was basically useless yesterday because of this issue (or something like it).


Try a restart... seems to work for mine for a few days before the problem resurfaces. That might get you through until the issue is resolved.


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## rethinking (Apr 30, 2008)

Gee Rich, what took you so long? Once again, you completely misunderstood my post. I was not suggesting a class action suit, I was merely trying to offer up reasons as to why someone (like yourself) would go to the trouble of participating in one.
This is a Community forum (not just for hackers) and I happen to believe that there are many more people affected by this recent 9.3 software update problem that could benefit from a little more information other than the repetitive one of replace your hard drive. Im sure that covers a broad spectrum of problems, but Im afraid it doesnt really do a lot of us any good. There are plenty of people out there with Tivos that just stopped working and dont have any idea what to do about it. I dont think the post from from [email protected] would have surfaced if it wasnt indeed a significant problem affecting quite a few of us. You also have to consider all the people affected by this that cant or dont spend all at their computers trying to figure out how to fix their own Tivos. You know, those people that live in a dream world, where they expect service from a company they pay money to. I think we all know people who chose a Tivo because they wanted just to be able to record shows without a VCR. They just want to watch TV effortlessly. In our quest to make things better, dont they deserve some help? As of a few days ago, they were still being told by customer reps that they had never heard of these problems or its software, hang in there. Would we accept that from our cable companies?(Maybe we should shimmy up the pole outside our houses and fix it ourselves.)
Of course, if we are to believe some posts, we could all be enjoying our Tivos right now if we werent so stubborn about expecting help from Tivo and would just replace our hard drives ourselves. (I must have missed the post that actually says this is guaranteed to fix this particular problem). Please call Grandma and tell her to phone all her friends and tell them all they have to do is replace their hard drives! Problem solved! Or better yet, Tivo is offering the Series 3 HD now, for the bargain price of $349! Way less than all you stupid people (me, right?) paid for them to begin with, and youll be out of your misery and watching television again in a few days. Until Tivo releases more software updates. If we keep ignoring the fact that these software updates wreak havoc on our hard drives it will continue to happen. Saying nothing and fixing it yourself (assuming that this is indeed the fix for this problem) only solves the problem for you and for now. What about everybody else? Imagine trying to instill change by raising your voice. (how Pollyanna of me) And yes, in the real world I live in, I do not let software download automatically into my electronics without my consent. Every computer, phone, ipod and even my video game consoles ask me first. 
I get to decide what to install and what not to install. Tivo is the only one that sans my permission. Yes I know, I agreed (of course we all read the fine print, dont we?), but it doesnt mean Tivo can be so reckless. 
I suggest, that you call Tivo and ask for the $49 replacement swap. Some may qualify for a free swap after you return your old one, but Im not exactly sure what the criteria is for that. I wouldnt suggest investing any more money than that. If your Tivo is not working, I dont think you should have to pay for your monthly service until it is. If you have a service contract, I think they have to offer you the swap. You service is useless without the box. If they refuse, or keep you hanging, I like the advice someone gave about getting a dvr from your cable company. Sure, they arent Tivos, but you may get it for free without any long term commitment, and, most importantly, if it stops working, theyll fix it or just bring you a new one, quickly. If Tivo straightens this mess out, you can always go back. Your box isnt doing you any good the way it is.
By the way, interesting article in a recent Forbes Magazine about the direction Tivo may be going in relation to all these boxes.


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## knownzero (Feb 26, 2001)

Rethinking, if you think the Tivo is that bad, take a look at posts about Time Warner's new (Nebraska?) Navigator software if you want vitriol from a software update. Heck, my cable co's DVR's have given me far worse problems than this in the past, I've replaced 3 of them in as many years due to hardware failures and all have had other software problems that have never been fixed after all these years. In comparison, the Tivo's I've had (since Series 1) have had some minor issues but nothing even remotely close to the crappy Motorola DVR's the cable co's give out.

Now to be fair, that doesn't mean this problem is any less annoying or should be excused away. I'll admit to being a bit of a Tivo apologist. I've been with them for a long time (see my joined date if you want an idea) and I've seen some ups and downs over different platforms and software over the years. For the most part when things are right, you'll forget you even have a DVR because it's so intuitive, but it's far more apparent when you have a problem because you're so used to it working right all of the time. That doesn't mean that Tivo doesn't need to fix the problem and pronto however. They *will* fix it and yep, it might take a little time to figure out what happened. They are very interested in why this happened and how it happened and they obviously aren't in the business to tick off their customers. They have competition and some very good ones and losing business isn't going to help them. But they aren't a company who is going to sit idly by and do nothing, that's not who they are.

Do I give them the benefit of the doubt more than I should when it comes to problems like this? Probably. They've been very good about letting people hack the units to their hearts content without intervention and frankly, that attitude (at least for me anyways) gives them a pass on stuff like this. The benefits of having a unit that can upgraded and repaired so easily far outweigh their goof's every so often. They could have made this just as locked down and painfully unhackable as any cable company DVR out there but they chose not to and for that, well, I'll take the bumpy road in exchange for that. If that's not good for you, you have options and ultimately your choice to move on to some other type of DVR will hurt them where it counts, in the pocketbook. If you like the Tivo and want to give it a second chance, wait around for a little while when the fix comes along. It's worth the wait.


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## rethinking (Apr 30, 2008)

You are about to hear something I almost never say. I was wrong. I have never been treated so badly in my life. Tivo has no desire to please any of it's customers. They are using us as testers. They obviously want us to come up with our own fixes and no amount of pressure from customers seems to have any affect on them. Apparently, there engineers don't really see this as a problem. Not even really working on it.
As I said, I have had this problem with my Series 3 for almost a month. After being told for weeks it was software, I was told, by what I thought was an engineer at Tivo that it was indeed a hard ware thing. That some drives were borderline, coaxial cables dispursing data, you know technical stuff, definitely not software. I bought into it. I let them send me the replacement Tivo, because let's face it I was desperate. The replacement arrived Saturday, Sunday I had a cable guy do the cards(long story), but for one heavenly day I had a working Tivo. The software was 8.0. At 2:00 am, the software was update to 9.3. This Tivo is now broken worse than the last. No amount of rebooting or disconnecting helps. I'm sorry I returned my old one. At least I could fix it so I could see tv. I'm afraid I tongue lashed the person I spoke with, but I was livid! He tried to make me run through all the stupid cures that I'd done with the first one. Nothing, worse, way worse. I assumed these refurbs were tested units before I got it. He said it was, how could that be? Another faulty hard drive? Were they all faulty from the beginning? I'll get a another replacement although I clearly stated I would rather have a working one, meaning the other smaller HD than another one of these. No sorry, can't be done. Could it be sent a little quicker than ground, no, sorry, can't be done. I know I lost it, but don't I have a right to be upset? This is really bad customer service. Oh yeah, and if the third one does the same thing, well, maybe, just maybe the engineers will finally rethink this whole thing. Apparently I'll be testing it for them. And gee if this one fails, then I'll have a third Tivo to return. And what do I get for my trouble? A new cable dvr. Thanks a lot Tivo.


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## knownzero (Feb 26, 2001)

rethinking said:


> Apparently, there engineers don't really see this as a problem. Not even really working on it.


Ok, now that's just ridiculous. I can guarantee you they *are* working on it and they are taking it *very* seriously. The fact that they are publicly asking for information about the problem and asking people to help pretty clearly means they are working on the issue. Do you seriously think that they want to read posts like yours? Of course they don't! They don't want to have problems and they certainly don't want people to switch to a cable company DVR. They very rigorously test all the patches they release for problems like this and it's not a quick process because they want to make sure that it doesn't go out bad a second time.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

knownzero said:


> Ok, now that's just ridiculous. I can guarantee you they *are* working on it and they are taking it *very* seriously. The fact that they are publicly asking for information about the problem and asking people to help pretty clearly means they are working on the issue. Do you seriously think that they want to read posts like yours? Of course they don't! They don't want to have problems and they certainly don't want people to switch to a cable company DVR. They very rigorously test all the patches they release for problems like this and it's not a quick process because they want to make sure that it doesn't go out bad a second time.


I hope they are working on it. It doesn't diminish the fact that a large number of customer service reps are probably (judging by the response, both from customers here and TivoStephen) telling people incorrect information (bad hard drive), often times incurring them cost that isn't warranted. I find it pretty understandable that people are getting so upset. Feelings seem to get the better of people sometimes (of which I am certainly guilty) and they don't express themselves as well as they might have later.

Bug, I get. Having your CSR's still telling a considerable number of people it is a hard drive failure (often times resulting in a cost to them) when the evidence suggests it is software is incompetence.

Edit: Some will make the case this is generally a hardware issue. TivoStephen acknowledging the problem and asking for diagnostics to help correct it makes a strong case to me it is software.


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## jkbrowne (Dec 14, 2005)

I hardly think Tivo "has no desire to please any of its customers". They run a business that is totally dependent on people subscribing to their service. Happy customers lead to more subscribers. The idea that they do not want to make their customers happy is just ludicrous. We are all frustrated with the situation too, but this sort of irrational bellyaching does not help the situation. The fact of the matter is, you have absolutely no idea what the engineers are doing. They may be working 24/7 trying to figure this thing out.

Now, granted, there does seem to be a communication problem. The problem is with the support staff, not with the engineers. All CSRs should be informed about this issue and the daily progress from the engineers on finding a resolution. I think it's safe to say anyone calling with a series3/TivoHD with the 9.3a software complaining of frozen buffers should not be forced to go through the runaround of popping cable cards out, rebooting, etc. It has already been proven this does not fix it. Having customers spend time doing all of this only to have it return in a-couple of days just makes it worse. Instead, the issue should be explained to the customer. They just need to be honest and upfront about what is going on and people will typically understand...especially the long-time Tivo users. I for one was very glad to see the post from estephen, even if it did not lead to a resolution. But, I think if the current level of communication from the CSRs continues it is going to become a major issue.


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## PSXBatou (Aug 4, 2007)

dig_duggler said:


> I hope they are working on it. It doesn't diminish the fact that a large number of customer service reps are probably (judging by the response, both from customers here and TivoStephen) telling people incorrect information (bad hard drive), often times incurring them cost that isn't warranted. I find it pretty understandable that people are getting so upset. Feelings seem to get the better of people sometimes (of which I am certainly guilty) and they don't express themselves as well as they might have later.
> 
> Bug, I get. Having your CSR's still telling a considerable number of people it is a hard drive failure (often times resulting in a cost to them) when the evidence suggests it is software is incompetence.
> 
> Edit: Some will make the case this is generally a hardware issue. TivoStephen acknowledging the problem and asking for diagnostics to help correct it makes a strong case to me it is software.


I just called TiVo after having my TiVoHD freeze on me. I would change the channel or swap tuners and it might go for a few seconds, then it would freeze again. Menus were fine, just as fast and lively as ever, but no video would play, it just sat there. I could fast forward and I could see that the video was there, but when you hit play it was frozen.

This has happened twice to me, a restart cured it both times. I never had this issue before 9.3 was installed on my TiVoHD.

I have the WD drive, I checked the cable and all seems fine. The TiVo rep told me that the tuner issue is only affecting Series 3 boxes and not TiVoHD boxes and is a hardware issue with the tuner itself. He also said that he has heard of this freezing issue (TiVoHD freezing after 9.3) numerous times. Since the menus were fine and a restart cured it he said that it seemed more like software and not hardware since if the HD was going out the menus would slow down or not work at all, and usually if a drive is going bad a restart does little to nothing to cure the issue.

I was pretty upset when I called, & I have to give it to TiVo since their customer service was outstanding. They answered all my questions and at least left me feeling better that my hardware seemed ok & that someone would atleast be made aware of the issue I was having with my TiVo.

The call ended with him saying that the message will be relayed along with my TiVo information to engineering. Maybe they have some way of monitoring hardware that is called in? Either way TiVo was very helpful, knowledgeable, & I realized that I would rather deal with TiVo customer service ANYDAY over Comcasts customer service.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

rethinking said:


> Gee Rich, what took you so long? Once again, you completely misunderstood my post. <snip>


Um, okay, thanks for all of that.  But after all of your points (many with which I agree)...I'm guessing that you have a TiVo that still doesn't work. I guess I'm just confused as to why anyone capable of resolving their situation would rather complain than to do anything about it. You don't sound like the grandmotherly type.  But if you're not up for tinkering with TiVo's innards I fully understand and wouldn't hold that against anyone. But why refuse to believe posts by others that have in fact fixed their TiVo's?

Since this thread is entitled "_9.3 Causing Video Freeze on TivoHD_" I made the assumption that you had a TiVo HD, not a Series3...and that somehow you managed to pay someone $600 for it.  A clear case of mistaken identity.

Waiting for someone to do something is everyone's prerogative. I just don't have that sort of patience is all. I just wish your TiVo was working so your time could be spent enjoying it instead of writing about why it doesn't and how unfair it is. I'm guess you'd like that too.

BTW...traveling for business slows my responses down sometimes. Darn work! 



rethinking said:


> You are about to hear something I almost never say. I was wrong. I have never been treated so badly in my life. Tivo has no desire to please any of it's customers. They are using us as testers. They obviously want us to come up with our own fixes and no amount of pressure from customers seems to have any affect on them. Apparently, there engineers don't really see this as a problem. Not even really working on it.
> <snip>.


Oh please. Now you've lost me and your credibility completely. You're entitled to your opinion, but statements like that are just nonsense.

It's too bad you feel that way and I understand your frustration. However those of us that have been around a while know better. Your best bet is to get a cableco DVR, sue TiVo for your pain and suffering and be done with it. :down:


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

jkbrowne said:


> I hardly think Tivo "has no desire to please any of its customers". <snip> But, I think if the current level of communication from the CSRs continues it is going to become a major issue.


 +1 :up:


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## jimbo1mcm (Jan 8, 2006)

I think that if you have a Series 3, and no STB, you are experiencing severe service disruptions. At a minimum, I would demand a free STB, so you can at least watch tv on the channels you normally do. I am not giving up my current STB until these Series 3 problems are worked out. Contacting your state Attorney General might allow for some investigations into your service interruptions. They are a monopoly in many areas, and have obligations to provide service.


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## GuysInCT (Apr 30, 2002)

knownzero said:


> ... They very rigorously test all the patches they release ...


Wish they had tested this update a bit more before releasing it. And what about the beta testers (there _had_ to be beta testers, as there are for any major software company)? How could they have missed this????


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## jkbrowne (Dec 14, 2005)

GuysInCT said:


> Wish they had tested this update a bit more before releasing it. ...<snip>...


True, but what I really do not understand is why the 9.3a software is still being pushed down.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

Since there are different threads on this and people are watching different ones, I thought I'd post some relevant info in this thread from TivoStephen:

"Folks, thanks to those of you who have sent me your TiVo Service Numbers. We have enough examples for our engineers to study, so I don't need any more e-mails for the moment. If we do need more, I'll post.

Sorry again to those of you who are experiencing this issue. We're studying it and we will keep you updated as to what we find.

Best regards,
Stephen"


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## Jackanapes (Aug 21, 2003)

Just an update on my situation, as I was one of the first on this particular freeze thread, I think, to have a CSR offer me a hardware exchange to fix the problem. New box arrived last week and I set it up on Friday. Props to Cablevision of Newark, N.J., for pairing the M-Card on the phone without a problem. TiVo booted with 8.1, upgraded to 9.3 on Satuday. No problems since. Useage has been pretty minimal -- recorded maybe 6 programs, watched maybe 6 hours of recorded/live TV since then. Recently Deleted, naturally, has very little in it, so maybe it does have something to do with that? I dunno -- just happy to have a functioning TiVo -- for now. Will update if the bug bites me again.


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## knownzero (Feb 26, 2001)

GuysInCT said:


> Wish they had tested this update a bit more before releasing it. And what about the beta testers (there _had_ to be beta testers, as there are for any major software company)? How could they have missed this????


It does seem odd that this was missed before they rolled it out although without knowing exactly what the problem is it's hard to say. Maybe it's the software rollout itself, a bad bit somewhere in the final release that wasn't bad in the pre-release. Who knows, it's all speculation on my part.


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## chewy2314 (Sep 11, 2003)

chewy2314 said:


> Well, add me to the list. It has been about 2 months since I got the refurbed TivoHD (new 750Gb Samsung F1 drive installed) and about 1 1/2 weeks since Multistream card installed. First time experienced the locked video issue in SD recorded programs. HD recorded programs played fine. I had to reboot the box. Now I did have ANT as a source, but no antennae was installed, so I reran the guided setup for only cable source. I'll post if we get the problem again. Video setting: 1080i Hybrid. OS: 9.3a.
> 
> PS. I didn't have any issues running without CC's. (okay, issue with GSOD when I messed with output resolution)


Okay, lasted 6 days. Recorded and live standard def TV only has sound and no moving picture. Recorded and live hi-def TV works just fine. No way it's the harddrive. This time, I changed all my season passes to remove the references to OTA channels and changed output video to native. we'll see if i have to reboot once a week.


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## jkbrowne (Dec 14, 2005)

My two TivoHDs have been working fine for more than a week now. As a test, I have been trying to let one fill up with stuff in the deleted items folder while keeping the deleted items on the other one clean. So far everything has been fine. It's strange, because I purchased these boxes right at the same time the 9.3 software was released, and had problems with frozen buffers on LiveTV right away. Since I had just gotten them set up, I didn't have many recordings at all, maybe two or three on the first TivoHD and none at all on the second. Nothing in the deleted items folder. Both units were having the same issue. For the first few days, one of them was freezing least once per day. But now, after using them for a-few weeks, the problems have disappeared. Coincidence maybe, but strange nonetheless.


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## rethinking (Apr 30, 2008)

First, Im gonna begin with an apology for the last post. It was a complete rant and I apology to everyone trying to help and I apologized to the Tivo rep who was only doing his job. Im also going to apologize in advance for anyone this new post may offend. Im not proud of being reduced to a screaming, irate, abusive customer, but I have hit my limit. When my replacement Tivo suffered the same fate as my first after the 9.3 update and I called customer service and was greeted with the same ho-hum spiel Engineers have determined, not a software problem..., coaxial cable disbursing information...., not a wide spread problem, lets just do a little troubleshooting........ I snapped. Is anybody even listening? I dont want to be read a one size fits all prepared speech. A little respect here. Ive had this problem for quite some time, I know the drill. And then the first person you talk to insists he is the highest level of help and wont let you speak to anyone else. I don't know if I'm the only one, but that's what I get every time I call for help.
Yes, in the whole scheme of things, I know having a broken Tivo is not a high level priority compared to famine, war and oil spills, but still, could I just get a little relief? I just wanna watch tv. I realize most everyone here is trying to help, but hearing the same remedies over and over again with no proven results is completely frustrating.
My refurb unit was supposedly free of defects (tested, Im told)
yet after 9.3 its worse than the one I sent back. I left it on for the 7-7-7 testing and it rebooted constantly from 7:00 am until 3:00 pm when I finally just unplugged it. That cant be good.
If I replace my hard drive myself, (which I have no idea how to) what do I do if the new software affects it again? Clearly the software updates cant be stopped. Tivo is still sending out the 9.3 to any unit that doesnt have it, even though they know its crippling some of our machines.
And is there any tactful way (obviously tact is something I have to work on) to suggest to a cable rep that maybe someone else might know about pairing cable cards? When I called they didnt seem to understand the pairing thing and finally had to send a tech. Im going to need to do it again with the new unit and it seems silly to have a service call when all they do is call in some numbers.


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## ToddNeedsTiVo (Sep 2, 2003)

The whole feigning ignorance routine performed by all first-level customer service reps is absolutely infuriating.


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## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

Just wanted to post that although I thought this issue had somehow magically fixed itself for me, it is still rpesent. I went about 1 1/2 weeks, after 2 reboots, with no incidents, but I guess I almost always am watching recorded material. This continues as a problem for me, but I noticed that if I pause live TV, and then skip back it seems to fix the issue, and least in many cases.

To address many peoples comments regarding Tivo, and how they operate, many can attest that int eh past I have been very frustrated with Tivo, after being a loyal customer since the very early days. Tivo, unfortunately has developed a pattern of poor practices over the past year or so, which involves

1. Rolling out poorly tested products and updates (Pixelation from Slot 1 on Tivo HD in launch, Pixealtion after Slot 1 fix, Freezing Picture) which all relate to what should be considered "core" functionality. All the BS people post about the rollout of updates and the need to ensure no issues will result, even after supposed Beat testing is crap.

2. Poor communucation with CSRs regarding known issues. I cannot tell you how many times I have followed the same moronic set of "tests" with CSRs only to find out the issue was not with anything on my side.

I have listed myself as a Beta Tester for a long time now, as I wanted to be part of the solution, rather than just a frustrated victim, but sadly have not been contacted yet. I guess having many of us act as Beta testers in reality negates the need for the program anyway.

I cannot be more tired of Tivo pushing out updates to add new features just to have the core functionality of the system affected negatively. I have not always been affected negatively, but always empathize with those that were, if I was not.

To those posting that Tivo obviously wants to have customers be happy, I would in general agree. The problem is that in many documented cases they do not, as a company, in many areas act as if this were the case. People judge based on actions and their experience, not intentions.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

rethinking said:


> I left it on for the 7-7-7 testing and it rebooted constantly from 7:00 am until 3:00 pm when I finally just unplugged it. That cant be good.


Um, that doesn't sound anything like the problem being reported in this thread. You know, the one where the video is frozen...



rethinking said:


> If I replace my hard drive myself, (which I have no idea how to) what do I do if the new software affects it again? Clearly the software updates cant be stopped. Tivo is still sending out the 9.3 to any unit that doesnt have it, even though they know its crippling some of our machines.


If you put in a new hard drive and reimage it (using InstantCake), it will reupdate to 9.3. If it is a software problem you'll be screwed again, if not you'll enjoy your Tivo like (some of) the rest of us.

You can reimage an S3 using InstantCake. If you have a TivoHD, or don't feel comfortable trying this, you'll have to buy a pre-imaged drive for weaknees, etc. Which do you have?

You could try to copy your current image to a new drive using WinMFS (preserving you settings), but if it is already at the point it is rebooting all day long the image may be too far gone already.


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## rethinking (Apr 30, 2008)

Im sorry, let me be a little more clear. This Tivo also always freezes when tuned to a HD channel and sometimes any channel, rendering it frozen until the coaxial cable is removed. Just like my last one. In addition, after that particular freeze when I tried to reset it, it started the rebooting thing. I think all these problems are related, and as I said this is my second Tivo with the same problems. I think the 9.3 update/freeze/reboot threads are pretty split up, which may be why the numbers affected are hard to gage. But, if youd like Ill post elsewhere. If there is some kind of thread etiquette maybe you should pass it on. I certainly dont want to commit another posting faux pas. Oh thanks for the hard drive help. Certainly sounds simple enough.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

rethinking said:


> Im sorry, let me be a little more clear. This Tivo also always freezes when tuned to a HD channel and sometimes any channel, rendering it frozen until the coaxial cable is removed. Just like my last one. In addition, after that particular freeze when I tried to reset it, it started the rebooting thing. I think all these problems are related, and as I said this is my second Tivo with the same problems. I think the 9.3 update/freeze/reboot threads are pretty split up, which may be why the numbers affected are hard to gage. But, if youd like Ill post elsewhere. If there is some kind of thread etiquette maybe you should pass it on. I certainly dont want to commit another posting faux pas. Oh thanks for the hard drive help. Certainly sounds simple enough.


Feel free to post in this thread if you want. I am not (nor try to be) a moderator. I just thought your problem sounded like the classic bad harddrive problem. Not what the others (in this thread) are experiencing.

Two bad Tivos in a row is horrible.  But not impossible. In fact, I think your odds go way up when you get a "tested" refurb. There is a reason those boxes are sent back in the first place.


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## carguy84 (Jun 8, 2006)

When it comes down to it, ya, it doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things, but the way in which Tivo handles themselves I can't help but laugh. 



> Ok, now that's just ridiculous. I can guarantee you they *are* working on it and they are taking it *very* seriously.


Do you think anyone got fired over this? Has anyone been offered refunds for the month their Tivo hasn't been working?



> The fact that they are publicly asking for information about the problem and asking people to help pretty clearly means they are working on the issue.


Coming from a developer's perspective, I think it clearly means they don't know where to begin troubleshooting the issue.



> They very rigorously test all the patches they release for problems like this and it's not a quick process because they want to make sure that it doesn't go out bad a second time.


Heh, what happened the first time?

I'm all for companies making mistakes, and I've only had this freezing thing happen twice since the update so I consider myself lucky, but come on, is arming your CS department with nothing but lies REALLY the answer here? Tivo really really really wants to sweep their issues under the rug as evident by what they are instructing their CS agents to communicate to their customers. It's a little scary to think someone actively made a decision to spread disinformation and cause disruption in people's lives because they couldn't just say "There's a problem with our devices, we are working on a solution, here's what we are going to do for you". Maybe Tivo's more cash strapped than I thought. Who knows.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Chimpware said:


> Poor communucation with CSRs regarding known issues. I cannot tell you how many times I have followed the same moronic set of "tests" with CSRs only to find out the issue was not with anything on my side.


I think the CSR dept. would improve 100% if they made this forum required reading. 


Chimpware said:


> I have listed myself as a Beta Tester for a long time now, as I wanted to be part of the solution, rather than just a frustrated victim, but sadly have not been contacted yet. I guess having many of us act as Beta testers in reality negates the need for the program anyway.


Obviously, either Tivo doesn't use enough beta testers, or they don't test long enough because if they did, bugs like this wouldn't slip through the cracks.
Agree with the statement about us being public beta testers.


Chimpware said:


> I cannot be more tired of Tivo pushing out updates to add new features just to have the core functionality of the system affected negatively. I have not always been affected negatively, but always empathize with those that were, if I was not.


Same here.
I've only been around for 3 or 4 major updates. I've come to expect the bugs.
Has Tivo _EVER_ had a bug free update?


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## knownzero (Feb 26, 2001)

carguy84 said:


> When it comes down to it, ya, it doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things, but the way in which Tivo handles themselves I can't help but laugh.
> 
> Do you think anyone got fired over this? Has anyone been offered refunds for the month their Tivo hasn't been working?


I've no idea if anyone got fired but if you've read this thread (or the other thread about this issue) yes, people have gotten service credits for this.



> Coming from a developer's perspective, I think it clearly means they don't know where to begin troubleshooting the issue.


Quite possible. If this was an easy fix it would have been rolled out by now.



> Heh, what happened the first time?


Even better question although if there was an answer for that, it would have never happened in the first place.



> I'm all for companies making mistakes, and I've only had this freezing thing happen twice since the update so I consider myself lucky, but come on, is arming your CS department with nothing but lies REALLY the answer here?


I highly doubt it's lies, just bad communication. Or it's possible that the CSR's are outsourced and they wouldn't have the foggiest idea what's going on.



> Tivo really really really wants to sweep their issues under the rug as evident by what they are instructing their CS agents to communicate to their customers. It's a little scary to think someone actively made a decision to spread disinformation and cause disruption in people's lives because they couldn't just say "There's a problem with our devices, we are working on a solution, here's what we are going to do for you". Maybe Tivo's more cash strapped than I thought. Who knows.


They've been cash strapped since day one.  Then again, as I mentioned in a previous post, I've had far more bugs from my Motorola cableco DVR than all of my Tivo's past and present. Tivo hasn't exactly been known for offering a bunch of info on their bugs or solutions in the past and probably aren't going to start today. Doesn't make it right but that's what were dealing with. At least they are interested in coming into these forums (which *aren't* owned by Tivo) and asking for help. What goes on behind the scenes at Tivo after they read this, I've no idea.


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## PSXBatou (Aug 4, 2007)

Welp I froze again, this time i did the 777 clear thing and synced 2 times. Menus are fine and speedy, playback doesn't work at all, but since something was 15 min from finishing recording I decided to let it finish. Once it was done I put the box in standby and pulled the plug on both the TiVoHD unit and my WD drive. Powered up the WD Drive, then the TiVo. 

I was expecting some stuttering in the recording, however when I watched it there was nothing wrong with it, no stuttering at all, it was perfect. It was as if the freezing never happened (my TiVo was frozen for playback while it was recording). So it records fine, why can't i view TV or recordings without freezing..

This is the 3rd time this week that I have had to do this. Saturday, Monday, and now Wednesday. It seems to be getting worse for me, its pretty irritating to have to restart the TiVo so often in order to fix something that their software update broke. 

I would get a replacement but from what I read here getting one would be wasting my time and I would end up losing all my saved programming. I really hope there is a fix coming soon as I am losing my patience with this issue.


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## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

Everyone who has a Tivo HD and has noticed freezing issue as I described in the original post, DO NOT replace you unit. This is clearly a software issue and not hardware related. Trust me when I tell you this, Tivo will eventually publicly admit the issue after a month or so of CSRs giving bad advice, then about another month or so and they will push an update that fixes this, but likely will cause the next wave of problems.

Your main hope is that you only get caught every other update by the problem it causes, like I have, and then you feel lucky.

Tivo has certainly conditioned me to accept the issues, and thank my lucky stars when an update does nothing more than provide the intended result. Tivo is just very lucky to operate in a space that Apple has ignored until now and their semi-crappy product is acceptable because the alternative completely crappy Cable DVR is just worse in most cases. Once a reasonable alternative becomes available say goodbye to Tivo as they will being trying to sustain themselves on lawsuits claiming the better competitor stole their IP.

Oh yeah, forgot to add, for those claiming Tivo is doing their best, if this is true why has no one I ever heard of ever been offered any type of compensation for the trouble caused to them? Not even a free month of service? Ever?


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## hmm52 (Feb 25, 2008)

Chimpware said:


> ....Tivo is just very lucky to operate in a space that Apple has ignored until now and their semi-crappy product is acceptable because the alternative completely crappy Cable DVR is just worse in most cases. Once a reasonable alternative becomes available say goodbye to Tivo as they will being trying to sustain themselves on lawsuits claiming the better competitor stole their IP.
> 
> Oh yeah, forgot to add, for those claiming Tivo is doing their best, if this is true why has no one I ever heard of ever been offered any type of compensation for the trouble caused to them? Not even a free month of service? Ever?


In reference to your last paragraph: If you're right, then my case must be the exception that makes the rule. I bought an S3 Feb. 28th that has had chronic tiling/tuning problems on some channels at high 700 MHz frequencies through tuner 0. Eventually I contacted a TiVo executive and have been working with his office. I haven't paid any subscription fees and won't be until I'm satisfied with a new replacement, plus 3 months.

In reference to your second to last paragraph: I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for an alternative to TiVo that occupies the same space; ie. a cable capable stand alone DVR. It's a space that no 3rd party manufacturer really wants to bother with except for TiVo. I've had some discussion on the Sony HDD250/500 AVS thread with people who've spent some time in Japan. There every major player - Panasonic, Sony, Sharp, Pioneer, etc. - offers robust HD DVRS for the home market. 250 GB to 2TB storage, built in HD DVD recorders and so on priced from $1000 to $5000. I would be stunned if any of them ever make it here in any form.

I don't know what the delivery systems are in Japan but I seriously doubt it's just OTA. The standards and practices in the US cable industry have been uneven at best. Same for FCC regulation and enforcement. Blame all involved parties or whomever you wish. The move to SDV in various forms by different providers could well be a debacle for cablecard devices. Verizon's switch nationwide to their own request_and_send IPTV system by 2010 looks ominous for 3rd party DVRs also; and for their own DVRs for that matter. Unless something changes, I expect them all to go the way of the 8 track in the US by 10 years time.

Good, bad or whatever, TiVo's the only game in town and will most likely stay in that position while it lasts. I understand your frustration, especially with CSR advice, as I've also wasted hours in pointless phone conversations, and in setting up then returning refurbs with worse problems. If there were more reliable 3rd party DVRs available here currently, I'd have much less patience with TiVo. As it is with a small company trying to keep its head above water in a difficult market, TiVo has a hell of lot on its plate.


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## JediTim (Sep 25, 2007)

I am pretty new to TiVo HD as I recently swithched from my DirecTV Tivo to Verizon FiOS and two new Lifetime Tivo HD units. As I stated previously the CableCARD installs went pretty seamlessly considering the installer had never done a CableCARD previously.

Prior to the installation I decided I wouldn't remove my DirecTV connection immediately. The software on both TiVo units was initially 8.1 but they upgraded to 9.3a. I have both units working for two weeks and (fingers crossed) I have not noticed any issues at all. This puzzles me because if it was a direct software issue it should impact all units. 

One of the questions I have are peope with multiple units in their home. Does anyone have only one unit affected or does it appear to be that all units are affected? 

I am using Verizon FiOS, two single stream cards, no OTA connections, one connected to a LCD HD 1080P TV via both a HDMI and Component connection (sometimes I lose the handshake) and the other to a SD TV via S-Video. 

I hope I didn't just set myself up for the 9.3a issue.
Tim


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## griff55 (May 12, 2008)

JediTim said:


> This puzzles me because if it was a direct software issue it should impact all units.


Not necessarily true. There are bugs in just about every piece of software written. It may take time for them to unearth themseleves, depending on how the software is used. A certain key combination, a certain sequence of events. It is impossible to say. I am a new Tivo user, I had no issues till I followed the directions on how to switch between two recordings (or the 2 cablecards) and has not happened to me since I stopped trying to use the live TV button to switch between cablecards. I rebooted and have not had the issue again. I was only having a problem with live tv, not recorded shows.


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## susani8 (Jan 14, 2006)

JediTim said:


> One of the questions I have are peope with multiple units in their home. Does anyone have only one unit affected or does it appear to be that all units are affected?


I have 2 Series 3s, one I picked up about 6 weeks after it was first offered (11/2006) and one I picked up last November. My original S3 has got caught up in this freezing / stuttering / rebooting debacle, and the newer one has been (apparently) completely unaffected by the update.

I've been working with TiVo on the issue and up until yesterday they admitted that there was a problem and offered to exchange the unit. I told them I needed to transfer recordings off of it, and then it would be ready to go. When I contacted them for exchange information yesterday, they said that since it was out of warrantee, they would exchange it for a 149.00 fee. I reminded them that they had offered to exchange it for nothing since it was something with the 9.3a patch that caused the problem. The "exchange specialist" then told me that their engineers have determined that this is a hardware problem and had nothing to do with their software, therefore, the only way that they could help me is if I paid the 149.00 exchange fee. I understand that if it was solely a hardware issue, the offer to exchange at all is generous, since the warrantee has expired, but when I reminded the CSR that many many others have had this problem appear just as 9.3a came to our units. She told me that others without the opdate have had the same issue, so it must be completely unrelated to the 9.3a update (I said, rather sarcastically I admit, that the fact that my unit and may others' units functioned flawlessly until this update must have been completely coincidental then, she told me - non-sarcastically - that yes, it was only hardware related). She said she would go down as low at 79.00 exchange fee (shipping and insurance are also on me), and that was as good as I could get. I'm over a barrell here, if I don't take her up on it I have a 700.00 plus lifetime door stop. I'm still paying monthly fees on my second unit. No compensation, no discussion, no admission. It's frustrating. I've been with TiVo for many years now, and they've always been great to work with. I love the product, so I guess I'll pay the 79 plus shipping to get a functioning unit - and pray that the unit returned to me IS functional!


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## JediTim (Sep 25, 2007)

susani8 said:


> ...I'm over a barrell here, if I don't take her up on it I have a 700.00 plus lifetime door stop. I'm still paying monthly fees on my second unit. No compensation, no discussion, no admission. It's frustrating. I've been with TiVo for many years now, and they've always been great to work with. I love the product, so I guess I'll pay the 79 plus shipping to get a functioning unit - and pray that the unit returned to me IS functional!


I would just ensure then that they give you a full warranty on the replacement unit...along with the lifetime.


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## rethinking (Apr 30, 2008)

Chimpware said:


> Everyone who has a Tivo HD and has noticed freezing issue as I described in the original post, DO NOT replace you unit. This is clearly a software issue and not hardware related.
> 
> Whoa, watch out! Youre about to evoke the wrath of the replace your hard drive guys!
> 
> ...


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## jimbo1mcm (Jan 8, 2006)

I am astounded that Tivo is not admitting a software error. Whoever agreed to this deception plan is courting real trouble. Most people get in trouble by lying about what happened, not what happened. Come clean Tivo, and fix this thing.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

susani8 said:


> (I said, rather sarcastically I admit, that the fact that my unit and may others' units functioned flawlessly until this update must have been completely coincidental then, she told me - non-sarcastically - that yes, it was only hardware related).


Coincidental? Why do people choose to ignore all posts that explain how the software installs work? It is not coincidental. There are two partitions... oh forget it.



rethinking said:


> Whoa, watch out! You're about to evoke the wrath of the 'replace your hard drive guys'!


It may be software (depends on the symptoms), but very well could be the hard drive. Pretending like it is impossible for your drive to be failing, is hurting only yourselves.


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## rjgrel (Nov 15, 2004)

I'm getting freezing/rebooting on my THD, with OTA and native mode through HDMI.

edit: wow, I'm such a lurker


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## bbhart (May 3, 2008)

Ok, received my new TiVo yesterday after RMA'ing the one experiencing freezing issues with 9.3a. After teaching Comcast rep how to pair up a CableCARD to new TiVo _without_ rolling a truck, everything was all set up.

Current software version is 8.1.7c2-01-2-652. Everything works as expected... I can watch something for >10 mins. without the box locking up.

Any bets on when I'll receive 9.3a and if the box will be hosed after that?


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

bbhart said:


> Any bets on when I'll receive 9.3a and if the box will be hosed after that?


You can force it to install 9.3 right now if you want to find out and get it over with.

Just force a couple connections. It will download. When it says pending restart, just restart the box manually.


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## bbhart (May 3, 2008)

greg_burns said:


> You can force it to install 9.3 right now if you want to find out and get it over with.
> 
> Just force a couple connections. It will download. When it says pending restart, just restart the box manually.


LOL... I'm hoping to squeeze a few days out of it before it goes belly up. Besides, The Office finale is tonight.

It baffles me they continue to roll 9.3a out, though.


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## lupes (Feb 7, 2007)

I also found my Tivo to be hosed after the software update. Thought I would share my story in case it can help anyone else.

About a week after the software update my S3 began getting really slow while going through the menus. Video was fine but selecting shows to watch got slower and slower each day. After a couple days of noticing it slowing it would sometimes take minutes just to go from one screen to another. I called tivo support and with the help of the level 2 support, found that my S3 was unusable as long as the coax cable was attached (I have an S3, no cable cards, original hard drive). Tivo support said they knew some S3's and HD's were having an issue as well and were working on a solution. They would get back to me. For the time being I could leave tivo attached and it would record, but to watch the shows I had to disconnect the coax cable. Once disconnected the tivo worked like normal. I tried the green screen hard drive check and it found no errors.
It is interesting to note that I had been reading this and other threads that attribute the software upgrade to their tivo failure. However, tivo support was adamant that my issue was not caused by the software upgrade. 
Then the next day the recordings became affected as well. I had stuttering, half taped shows and garbled, pixeled recordings. Now my Tivo was unusable.
A couple days after Tivo left me hanging waiting on a fix I recieved a call from Tivo Support, they informed me there was no fix and that I had to send in my Tivo for a refurb. Something I didn't want to do right away.
I had seen that some people in the thread had success fixing their Tivo by putting in a new hard drive. I have upgraded several S1 Tivo hard drives before and know how easy it is and so, wanted to try putting in a new drive instead of sending our Tivo back.
Last night I put in a 320GB WD drive and all my slow menu and stuttering video problems are gone. The Tivo is working normal again. I would like to thank those memeber who suggested this route. Can any of you who have done this a while ago comment if you still are without issues with your new drive? Just wondering if this is a long term solution or a short term fix?
What confuses me for all these issues is trying to figure out just what was causing my tivo to fail in the first place. Attaching the coax and having tivo fail points to a software issue; however, I basically copied my current image from one drive to another. Theoretically, if a software issue, I should still be having problems. Which then means it would be a hardware issue with the hard drive. I will probably run a disc check tonight on the old S3 drive to see if I can find any failures. I actually like the theory posted by one member (can't remember who) that perhaps the drive is just getting super fragmented by Tivo. It could explain the gradual increase in slowness and then the stuttering of the video. 
Anyway, sorry for the long post but its been a long three weeks of troubleshooting with tivo, ordering hardware and upgrading the drive. Thought I would share my experience in hopes that it helps to figure out what is going on with all these Tivos.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

lupes said:


> Last night I put in a 320GB WD drive and all my slow menu and stuttering video problems are gone.


Have you ran any diagnostics (Western Digital's or Hitachi's Drive Fitness Test boot CD) on the old drive to see if it truly was failing?

One poster has stated his old drive pasted the Advanced read tests for WD, but still failed on the Write Zeros test.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

lupes said:


> I will probably run a disc check tonight on the old S3 drive to see if I can find any failures. I actually like the theory posted by one member (can't remember who) that perhaps the drive is just getting super fragmented by Tivo. It could explain the gradual increase in slowness and then the stuttering of the video.


Ah, missed that at first.

Somebody has said before that the filesystem used by Tivo for the video does not fragment. Not sure how that can be, but that is what I recall.


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## jkbrowne (Dec 14, 2005)

lupes said:


> <snip> ... I will probably run a disc check tonight on the old S3 drive to see if I can find any failures. ... <snip>


I would be very interested to read about the results of your hard drive test. Please post the results when you have a chance.

Thanks!


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## rethinking (Apr 30, 2008)

After teaching Comcast rep how to pair up a CableCARD to new TiVo without rolling a truck, everything was all set up.

How did you do that? Mine replacement is coming tomorrow and a really hate to have to have another tech visit.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Okay...I'm trying to step back here for a more objective look at things, but I'm still confused. If it's a software "bug" why it doesn't it affect every TiVo? None of our TiVo's have ever experienced the issues outlined by folks having problems after the 9.3x uppgrade (or after previous upgrades). Whatever the number I still have to believe that it is affecting only a small percentage of the thousands of TiVo's in the wild but I'm not going to argue the point because it's pointless really...if you're being affected, that's enough.

As noted on a number of posts here and in other threads; why does replacing or re-imaging the hard drive or some other tweaking correct the problem? Why are some or at least the more recent replacement TiVo's running fine? 

We are all using the same software version. If it is a software "bug" it s/b be affecting everyone equally no? Unless...it has something to do with the associated hardware including tuners, cable cards, hard drives, etc.

So if it is in fact a hardware issue (being initiated or exacerbated by a software upgrade) wouldn't that be a hardware problem? Of course that's not to say that a change in the software might not have a positive impact on one or more particular hardware combinations, but I'm still at a loss as to why this is impacting some and not everyone.


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## bbhart (May 3, 2008)

rethinking said:


> After teaching Comcast rep how to pair up a CableCARD to new TiVo without rolling a truck, everything was all set up.
> 
> How did you do that? Mine replacement is coming tomorrow and a really hate to have to have another tech visit.


By saying CableCARD about 10 times, and then explaining that there are several things she'll need to change now that I have a new TiVo. She tried to verify my CableCARD #, send a hit, and wrap up the call saying "give it a few minutes, see if it works", without actually changing host id or data id. I insisted we verify the other settings and of course they were wrong... she keyed in the new values, I rebooted TiVo, and life was good.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

richsadams said:


> Okay...I'm trying to step back here for a more objective look at things, but I'm still confused. If it's a software "bug" why it doesn't it affect every TiVo? None of our TiVo's have ever experienced the issues outlined by folks having problems after the 9.3x uppgrade (or after previous upgrades). Whatever the number I still have to believe that it is affecting only a small percentage of the thousands of TiVo's in the wild but I'm not going to argue the point because it's pointless really...if you're being affected, that's enough.
> 
> As noted on a number of posts here and in other threads; why does replacing or re-imaging the hard drive or some other tweaking correct the problem? Why are some or at least the more recent replacement TiVo's running fine?
> 
> ...


You must also consider the program source that may have an effect on this problem, between myself and friends that have the HD-TiVo I have not seen the problem (except on this form) and that covers about 12 units from people that would (and do) come to me if they were having any problem, but they are all on the Hartford CT Comcast system, most but not all with the M cable card about 8 have upgraded drives...Just trying to help figure why so many people (posting on this form) are having this problem.

A good question may be does anybody on the Hartford CT Comcast system have this problem ??


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## bbhart (May 3, 2008)

richsadams said:


> Okay...I'm trying to step back here for a more objective look at things, but I'm still confused. If it's a software "bug" why it doesn't it affect every TiVo? None of our TiVo's have ever experienced the issues outlined by folks having problems after the 9.3x uppgrade (or after previous upgrades). Whatever the number I still have to believe that it is affecting only a small percentage of the thousands of TiVo's in the wild but I'm not going to argue the point because it's pointless really...if you're being affected, that's enough.
> 
> As noted on a number of posts here and in other threads; why does replacing or re-imaging the hard drive or some other tweaking correct the problem? Why are some or at least the more recent replacement TiVo's running fine?
> 
> <snip>


Good point. It would be interesting to compare the manufacture dates of some of the problem units, see if there's some sort of correlation. I work for a company that sells network appliances and our supplier has issues sourcing the exact same components over the span of months and years as technology improves. So even though we stamp all the appliances with our same model name, there are small (slightly larger fan, slightly faster CPU) and not-so-small (newer firmware on RAID controller) differences under the hood because we can't source the original parts anymore.

It wouldn't explain why replacing or reimaging the HD fixes the problem, but may explain why some 9.3a people see the problem and others don't. It also might explain why RMA'd boxes that are upgraded to 9.3a don't eventually see the problem, as maybe they come from a different batch.


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## jimbo1mcm (Jan 8, 2006)

Got the program data to May 29th, software 8.1....then unplugged the phone line. Will wait and see if Tivo can figure it out. No cable cards yet, probably just next week. The canned Tivo introductions in HD play just fine. It could be a good test vehicle to see if they continue to play okay with the new software, when I have the guts to plug it in again.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

8.1 wasn't exactly problem free itself. 

If you are planning to install cable cards, I would suggest having the latest software installed.


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## lupes (Feb 7, 2007)

jkbrowne said:


> I would be very interested to read about the results of your hard drive test. Please post the results when you have a chance.
> 
> Thanks!


Well, I finally got around to testing the old 250GB drive from my S3. I used the WD Diagnostics application and performed both the extended test as well as write all 0's. Both tests passed with flying colors.
Here is the report:
Test Option: EXTENDED TEST 
Model Number: WDC WD25 00BS-55RPB1 
Unit Serial Number: N/A 
Firmware Number: 
Capacity: 250.06 GB 
SMART Status: Not Available 
Test Result: PASS 
Test Time: 03:27:19, May 17, 2008

Test Option: WRITE ZEROS 
Model Number: WDC WD25 00BS-55RPB1 
Unit Serial Number: N/A 
Firmware Number: 
Capacity: 250.06 GB 
SMART Status: Not Available 
Test Result: COMPLETE 
Test Time: 07:29:22, May 17, 2008

Since putting in the new drive seemed to fix things, I decided to restore my saved image (I backed up without recordings to save time) to the old 250GB drive. I restored the image and have been running it for about four hours with no slow down or hesitation, just like putting in a new drive.

Since there seems to be nothing wrong with the old drive, and it runs in tivo just find with the backed-up image, this means my issue was not related to hardware.

So no I have made arguments against both hardware and software issues. This again leads me to think it may be a very fragmented drive. It could explain the slow-downs and freezing while my drive is still good and the 9.3a version of my Tivo OS is also working fine. I also have seen in other threads where some people cleared up HD freezing issues by purging their deleted folder.

Couple of caveats though. I did not save my Tivo image with recordings. It would be interesting for someone experiencing issues to backup the whole thing, including shows, and restoring to a new drive (would the fragmentation be passed on to the new drive?). Also, I only ran my Tivo on the old 250GB drive for about four hours, it is possible, though I don't think likely, the issues could come back quickly.

If I get around to it, I may check the SMART log on the old Tivo drive to see if there are any faults. However, I don't think this will lead to any answers.

Anyways, hope this helps some people out. This gives you an option to not have to buy a new drive: 
1) Take the old one out, 
2) test it and make sure there are no errors on it, 
3) copy your tivo image to a file (now you have a backup!) and 
4) restore it back to the same drive. 
Its a FREE way to see if you can fix the Tivo yourself.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Wow. Very interesting.

Regarding the fragmentation... The ones in the know say the MFS file system has very large blocks optimized for video and thus fragmentation is not really an issue.

I like this explanation I found.


sanderton said:


> Fragmentation is only an issue if it causes the disk to be seeking all over the place dozens or hundreds of times a second (slow) rather than just reading sector after sector in a row (fast). The MFS partions on the hard disk where the video is stored have a huge block size - the smallest amount that can be written to the disk. Each block is good for several seconds of video. So even if a file is "fragmented" ie all the blocks are in different places) that's only one seek every few seconds which is no problem.
> 
> The blocks are not the same as the "Parts" which Ian is talking about, which are the raw "files" of MFS and are typically 512Mb.


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## Popasmurf (Jun 10, 2002)

Just thought I'd chime in and say the freezing issue just happend to me!


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

lupes said:


> Well, I finally got around to testing the old 250GB drive from my S3. I used the WD Diagnostics application and performed both the extended test as well as write all 0's. <snip>
> 
> Anyways, hope this helps some people out. This gives you an option to not have to buy a new drive:
> 1) Take the old one out,
> ...


Excellent information...thanks very much! :up: Please keep us posted on the behavior of your original/current drive.

For others having issues, if you take the time to pull your drive; knowing which model it is (as lupes pointed out) would be helpful as well.

FWIW I started permanently deleting everything in the Recently Deleted folder about a year ago when our S3 w/eSATA began slowing down (v8.1x) It brought it back to normal and I kept it "clean" until they allowed eSATA drives to be added via P&P. Since then I haven't touched it and haven't seen any issues. The RD folder averages about 150 to 160 (sometimes as high as 200 but not often) recordings now on v9.3a.

Thanks again!

EDIT: Just noted an interesting response from AbMagFab on another thread.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Popasmurf said:


> Just thought I'd chime in and say the freezing issue just happend to me!


Grrrrrr.  Sorry to hear that. Let us know if you take any action (beyond a normal hard reboot) and what you've tried to to do to resolve it, additional symptoms, etc.

Best of luck. :up:


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## Popasmurf (Jun 10, 2002)

Sure will. Hasn't happened before, and I did a reboot to fix. I'll see if it happens again. Nothing special about my setup, no mods, no external drive, nothing...



richsadams said:


> Grrrrrr.  Sorry to hear that. Let us know if you take any action (beyond a normal hard reboot) and what you've tried to to do to resolve it, additional symptoms, etc.
> 
> Best of luck. :up:


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## woodburger (May 18, 2008)

Add me to the list of disappointed users with freeze problems. I believe it's software... how about a bug fix, TiVo?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I just had my very first freeze issue. I was watching Raiders of the Lost Ark on SciFi HD yesterday while it was recordig and the video froze. If I forwarded or reversed I would get audio and video movement for a second or two then it would freeze again. It seemed to be recording normallly so I left it alone until the Indiana Jones Trilogy was done recording. Once I rebooted the next morning everything was fine. The recordings made during the freeze were prefectly fine. Zero problems with the recordings made during the time the video was frozen which was around 15 hours since I didn't reboot it until the morning. The other recordings made during that time period were also fine.

So while the video freeze was a pain, at least it didn't affect any recordings during that period.
I didn't want to risk missing any of the Indiana Jones Trilogy by rebooting during a commercial break. I figured if it was messed up I could record them again since they were also on today. Luckily though the recordings weren't affected. I use four TiVo HD boxes and this is the first time I have seen this. It happened to my TiVoHD connected to Comcast.


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## MANOWAR© (Mar 6, 2005)

Well, it's been about 10 days since I put the laptop cooler under my TiVo HD and WD expander and hooked it up to the USB on the back and I haven't had a freeze in that time. It may just be a coincidence.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

MANOWAR©;6294556 said:


> Well, it's been about 10 days since I put the laptop cooler under my TiVo HD and WD expander and hooked it up to the USB on the back and I haven't had a freeze in that time. It may just be a coincidence.


Interesting. What's the internal hard drive's temp now and previously? Is the My DVR Expander cool, warm or hot to the touch? TIA. :up:


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## hddude55 (Jan 5, 2007)

I now have the freeze issue to add to the lost channels SA cards issue. To think the original TiVo has appeared on lists of the best new consumer products of the last decade. I expect the series3 and HD TiVos will someday appear on lists of the biggest lemons of the next decade. What a bad joke on consumers, but I keep hanging in there since the alternative is a Cox Cable dvr.


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## KJW (Sep 27, 2003)

richsadams said:


> For others having issues, if you take the time to pull your drive; knowing which model it is (as lupes pointed out) would be helpful as well.[/URL].


Is this a joke? Won't this void the warranty?

Why don't you just divide up the lines of code and we can each do some QA?


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

KJW said:


> Is this a joke? Won't this void the warranty?


If it under warranty send it back. 

Otherwise, you have options. Take em or leave em.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

KJW said:


> Is this a joke? Won't this void the warranty?
> 
> Why don't you just divide up the lines of code and we can each do some QA?


No...knowing which drives are failing would be quite valuable to a lot of us who are helping others diagnose this problem. Unless you bare your soul to TiVo or leave a torx driver in the box no one will know if you've opened your TiVo or not.

As Greg says, you also have the option of just sending your TiVo back for a replacement.

If you'd care to lend a hand, you're more than welcome to start reading the lines of code.


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## chart (Sep 4, 2001)

Same problem here. video Freeze and only reboot fixes. worked for 12 months and didn't have to reboot once.. now it is every 5 days.


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## resthome (Jan 28, 2008)

Same problem here. Only occurs every few days. Reboots seem to clear it up for a while but it then returns.


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## pomerlp (Apr 22, 2008)

Someone please explain to me how problems can affect some people and not everyone. I don't get it.

I have looked back doing searches on other releases in this forum and every release has a whole bunch of people claiming the release does something terrible to their TiVo. Now I had the problem with the 9.2 and 30 second skip and tick but that is about it.

And how in the heck does this so called freeze caused by 9.3 "hit" somebody a month after it's release?

Just seems to me that something is very odd about all this. And so many threads all over the forum on this.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Update from TiVoStephen requesting more info. He says it only affects TiVo HD models (not S3).

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6297984#post6297984


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## wdpower (May 22, 2005)

Chalk one more up for the frozen HD TiVo. The system froze while my daughter was watching JoJo this morning. Worked my way through House tonight but missed Greek. Hard booting it now.

I did call support, the woman played dumb with me, she's never heard of any HD systems freezing but "please do try rebooting if that does it you're all set"

Oh well still love the HD picture quality and the cable card availability. I'm sure TiVo's working on it (I hope)

-Bill


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

pomerlp said:


> Someone please explain to me how problems can affect some people and not everyone. I don't get it.
> 
> I have looked back doing searches on other releases in this forum and every release has a whole bunch of people claiming the release does something terrible to their TiVo. Now I had the problem with the 9.2 and 30 second skip and tick but that is about it.
> 
> ...


That my friend is the $64,000 question, most people on this form don't say they they never had a problem as it would take up to much space reading about people like me that never had any problems with any of the 12-13 some odd HD-TiVos I and my friends have..a poll for this problem ???
I did post (#238) that maybe its related to the Cable System the TiVo-HD is connected to as all my friends are connected to Comcast Hartford CT and asked if anybody in Comcast Hartford CT area has had a problem with their TiVo-HD, I never got any answer to that one.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

wdpower said:


> I did call support, the woman played dumb with me, she's never heard of any HD systems freezing but "please do try rebooting if that does it you're all set"


It's not an act. Nobody is playing *dumb.* Rather, they are *ignorant.*

If TiVo is like many other companies, then they are paying oursourced tech support people, located in third world countries, the equivalent of "peanuts" in US currency to follow a diagnostic flowchart and read from a script.

Tech support has never heard of "systems freezing" because


it's not in their job description

nobody from TiVo has told them about it

they are not incentivized or encouraged to exchange information about problems amongst themseves

they don't even have TiVo service in their country, so they can't learn about problems on their own
Cynical? Perhaps, but who has a better explanation for the abysmal tech support in "high tech" in general and at TiVo in particular?


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## hmm52 (Feb 25, 2008)

The call center is in Texas, I believe. I've never talked with a TiVo CSR with a foreign accent. Uniformly they have tried to be helpful, but weren't given enough tools to really be that.

I haven't found any other company's CSRs to have more than shallow knowledge of the products.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

richsadams said:


> No...knowing which drives are failing would be quite valuable to a lot of us who are helping others diagnose this problem. Unless you bare your soul to TiVo or leave a torx driver in the box no one will know if you've opened your TiVo or not.
> 
> As Greg says, you also have the option of just sending your TiVo back for a replacement.
> 
> If you'd care to lend a hand, you're more than welcome to start reading the lines of code.


From the link that was posted above and the questions asked, it sounds like for the TiVo HD picture freezing, while otherwise responsive, issue, TiVo engineers are focusing on the mpg encoder/decoder module/system rather than the hard drive.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6297984#post6297984

I think by asking so many questions, TiVo is implicitly acknowledging they currently feel there are more complaints than they would normally expect when compared to historical hard drive corrupt problems that crop up during upgrades. They have further acknowledged that they feel the problem is isolated to TiVo HD.

I'm not saying the hard drive is or isn't involved, just pointing out what they appear to be focusing on.


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## raney (Jan 2, 2008)

Is everyone with the problem using HDMI? I noticed that if I turn off my TV when the screen is frozen and come back later, as the TV starts up, the picture is moving and then freezes again. It would almost appear to be some sort of handshake issue between the Tivo and the Samsung with HDMI.

Is anyone else using HDMI and Samsung? Or at least HDMI?


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## JediTim (Sep 25, 2007)

Every once in a while I will lose my HDMI connection...I just unplug my TV, plug it back in and it works fine...this is a LG model that it happens to. The video is never compromised and so far I have not had any issues with the 9.3a.
Tim


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## rethinking (Apr 30, 2008)

Okay, so now Im completely confused. Even though the topic of this whole forum is TIVO SERIES3 HDTV DVRS for the most part, [email protected] is really only concerned about the TIVO HD problems? So all this time, nobody has even been noticing the Series 3 HD Tivos problem? Im on my third box!
I made a giant assumption that the many separate threads relating to freezing, lock ups and rebooting after the 9.3 software update applied to any Tivo that had HD capabilities. Not just limited to TivoHD. When I participated in the 7-7-7 last week, I clearly said I had a Series3 HD Tivo. When I got the the polite return e-mail, it never said any thing about it not being the Tivo they were interested in. Are they completely separate, non related issues? Am I missing something? Am I the only one who is having this problem on a Series 3 HD? A little clarity here, please!

And why is he even still asking for that 7-7-7 thing? I cant imagine with all the Tivos they have access to that they cant re-create the problem. I only had access to 3 units and I recreated it twice. (Series 3) Just hook up one of the many that have been returned and see it first hand.

I did manage to find out that a Tivo (Series 3) that experienced the melt down after the 9.3 software update and a Tivo (Series 3) that seems to have survived it, have what looks like, the same hard drive. Western Digital WD 250 BS. Both with the same date 10/2006.

All 3 of the Series 3 HD Tivos that Ive had have all been connected in the exact same way. Same HDMI, same coaxial cable, same phone line, same power source and same cable cards. So whats different about the third? It got the update a few days ago, with no bad reactions, yet.

Hey, did anybody else see this, and if so, is it true?

actually TiVo anounced that as a "cost cutting move" they are dropping third party customer support and bringing it back in house. Maybe the wait time on the phone goes up but hopefully soon you will reach a full time employee of TiVo inc. who is more involved in learning the full TiVo information versus just picking up the scripts for the afternoon customer.


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## Chris8204 (Aug 27, 2007)

raney said:


> Is everyone with the problem using HDMI? I noticed that if I turn off my TV when the screen is frozen and come back later, as the TV starts up, the picture is moving and then freezes again. It would almost appear to be some sort of handshake issue between the Tivo and the Samsung with HDMI.
> 
> Is anyone else using HDMI and Samsung? Or at least HDMI?


Hmm...yeah I have a Samsung and use HDMI with the same issue. However, I have never tried to come back later. My box freezes about twice a week, and when it does I just do a reboot. Next time I notice I'll try turning off the tv and back on again.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

rethinking said:


> I made a giant assumption that the many separate threads relating to *freezing, lock ups and rebooting *after the 9.3 software update applied to any Tivo that had HD capabilities. Not just limited to TivoHD.


Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the TivoHD freeze problem being discussed here does not exhibit the last two symptoms you mention (lock ups and rebooting). If yours is doing that, then something else is probably wrong. When they say freezing, they are talking about the video. The menu's are still responsive. Right?

As I said before, that sounds like a classic bad hard drive problem.



rethinking said:


> I did manage to find out that a Tivo (Series 3) that experienced the melt down after the 9.3 software update and a Tivo (Series 3) that seems to have survived it, have what looks like, the same hard drive. Western Digital WD 250 BS. Both with the same date 10/2006.


All the S3s are using the WD 250 GB drive. Pretty sure, they are all still the same model as well.


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## rickmeoff (Aug 25, 2006)

greg_burns said:


> Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the TivoHD freeze problem being discussed here does not exhibit the last two symptoms you mention (lock ups and rebooting). If yours is doing that, then something else is probably wrong. When they say freezing, they are talking about the video. The menu's are still responsive. Right?
> 
> As I said before, that sounds like a classic bad hard drive problem.
> 
> All the S3s are using the WD 250 GB drive. Pretty sure, they are all still the same model as well.


yep, there have been absolutely no instances of 'lock ups and reboots' with our THD; it's been freezing video *only* (while audio continues), which is.......from what ive been reading..... the problem that the majority of people here are reporting.

with lockups and reboots, i too would guess a failing hd.....a completely different problem from what we're experiencing here, imo. id invest in a decent ups (unless you already have one)if this was my 2nd series 3 with the same problem.


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## jimbo1mcm (Jan 8, 2006)

Are all the problems of freezing, etc with WD drives? Have any been reported with the Seagate DB35 drives?


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## MANOWAR© (Mar 6, 2005)

richsadams said:


> Interesting. What's the internal hard drive's temp now and previously? Is the My DVR Expander cool, warm or hot to the touch? TIA. :up:


Surprisingly the TiVo's temp never changed but the WD was throwing off heat like a hair dryer. This laptop cooler keeps the air in and around the TiVo and WD to about the same as the rest of the house. The air around it used to be like walking into a boiler room. It may be a coincidence but I'll take it.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

hmm52 said:


> The call center is in Texas, I believe. I've never talked with a TiVo CSR with a foreign accent. Uniformly they have tried to be helpful, but weren't given enough tools to really be that.
> 
> I haven't found any other company's CSRs to have more than shallow knowledge of the products.


My experience has been hit and miss. I've had a couple of CSR's that knew quite a bit...had obviously been there a while and were more than pleasant and went above and beyond. I've also had a couple that should have been washing cars for a living (not that there's anything wrong with that ). I was given completely incorrect info about billing by one and someone else from TiVo called later to explain...that I was going to owe more money. 

It's a crap shoot IMHO. If you don't get the response you're looking for, call back and talk to someone else or ask for a supervisor. That's not the way it should be mind you, but I wouldn't take "I dunno" for an answer.

I also think having a decent attitude going in can make a difference. If someone acts like a jerk to start with, well...


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

jimbo1mcm said:


> Are all the problems of freezing, etc with WD drives? Have any been reported with the Seagate DB35 drives?


AFAIK TiVo only uses WD HDD's these days (used to be Maxtors ). Anyone that's installed a Seagate DB35 would have done it on their own (including yours truly) and I don't think anyone has reported a freeze issue, etc. that has upgraded their hard drive...with a Seagate or any other brand. It appears to be an OEM issue, but as noted, it may not necessarily be a HDD issue alone.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

MANOWAR©;6306865 said:


> Surprisingly the TiVo's temp never changed but the WD was throwing off heat like a hair dryer. This laptop cooler keeps the air in and around the TiVo and WD to about the same as the rest of the house. The air around it used to be like walking into a boiler room. It may be a coincidence but I'll take it.


Sounds good. Heat can really be an issue with hard drives. Good to hear things are better. :up:


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

sfhub said:


> From the link that was posted above and the questions asked, it sounds like for the TiVo HD picture freezing, while otherwise responsive, issue, TiVo engineers are focusing on the mpg encoder/decoder module/system rather than the hard drive.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6297984#post6297984
> 
> ...


All good points and I agree. The video freeze issue could be HDD related, but it could just as easily be something else. And as you point out, TiVo is obviously focusing on that something else. Hopefully they'll get it resolved soon. :up:


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## jkbrowne (Dec 14, 2005)

I just read on the Tivo support forum that CSRs are still sending out replacement units as a fix for this. This is unbelievable! IT DOES NOT FIX IT! And, for most customers, it's an *incredible* hassle to go through the pain of dealing with the cable company again to have their cablecards re-paired. Sadly, the communication at the CSR level still appears to be an issue.


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## raney (Jan 2, 2008)

My Tivo Series 3 is included in the extended log sample so I think they are aware that the problem exists on the Series 3 as well.


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## eztider (Sep 4, 2004)

Thanks to all who have posted. Until I logged into the forum and read your messages my Tivo was driving me crazy trying to figure out what was wrong. Here is what I have and the situation:

2 Tivo HD, one with WD expander, both with two Time Warner CableCARDs. The one with the expander is connected to a Sony 46" XBR, the other drives an Insignia 32" 720p set.

2 Tivo Series 2, one connected to a Toshiba CRT set, the other to a 19" Insignia 720p. All Tivos have Tivo-brand wireless USB adapters

About two weeks ago we started to notice heavy pixellation, followed by freezing up, on the Tivo HD units. I was out of town until last week, when I first contacted Tivo about the problem. They suggested the Kickstart 56 procedure, which I did on the Tivo HD with expander. It passed the quick tests and I didn't want to take the time to do the in-depth tests. I had also tried numerous restarts, which seemed to help for a short time but the problems always returned. I also got an appointment for Time Warner to come out and look at the CableCARDs but later thought better of it and cancelled. I don't think this is anything that a Time Warner rep can fix while standing in my living room, but they will charge me $20 for the call.

Today I have a new problem: I wanted to transfer an NBA game from the Tivo HD without the expander to the other Tivo HD and the transfer failed, with a cryptic message to the general effect of, "there must be a good reason why it failed". But a network news program transferred just fine.

I'm beginning to believe the freezing problem is connected to or related to changing channels and the CableCARDs. When I change channels on the WD unit, the new channel will appear in a frozen state. If I hit the replay button once or twice the program starts and appears normal....repeated searching through a recorded program often produces pixellation and stuttering but most often the Tivo recovers, at least for a while...the most irritating aspect is this is the uncertainty. I can be watching a program and out of the blue it will just freeze without warning, or start breaking up, ruining the immersive experience and destroying the ability to scroll back and forth through a program. Apparently Tivo has broken it good this time, perhaps beyond their ability to fix it.

When I first got my HD sets, last October, I started with the cable company DVRs. I hated them; the software s**** So I bought the Tivo HDs. Now apparently the Tivo software s**** too. I think the Tivo software has the potential to get better before the cable companys' software but in any case there's an opening here for any other company who can get this right. Please please Apple, add DVR functionality to my Apple TV!


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## hmm52 (Feb 25, 2008)

richsadams said:


> My experience has been hit and miss. I've had a couple of CSR's that knew quite a bit...had obviously been there a while and were more than pleasant and went above and beyond. I've also had a couple that should have been washing cars for a living (not that there's anything wrong with that ). I was given completely incorrect info about billing by one and someone else from TiVo called later to explain...that I was going to owe more money.
> 
> It's a crap shoot IMHO. If you don't get the response you're looking for, call back and talk to someone else or ask for a supervisor. That's not the way it should be mind you, but I wouldn't take "I dunno" for an answer.
> 
> I also think having a decent attitude going in can make a difference. If someone acts like a jerk to start with, well...


I hadn't seen a post from you in awhile so I figured you were on a diveboat somewhere without an Internet uplink. That sort of adventure seems like a pipedream now. I'm pinned down by an elderly father with end of life matters and a lamb born Friday that needs bottle feeding. Both the beginning and the end require much patience and flexibility. Given the choice, I'd take dealing with the beginning every time. Experiencing both brings perspective to everything else however.

I meant to amend the post to which you replied, but didn't get around to it. A number of things we've discussed here like video freezing haven't been sorted out yet by TiVo engineers. It's unrealistic to expect much from the CSRs on problems with still unknown solutions. It makes no sense to vent frustration on the CSRs. Would you want that job?

For Internet services Earthlink's and Verizon's CSRs are very good - some of them sounded to be in India as I recall.

From my point of view there are two policies that TiVo could change to improve customer relations generally. Nothing to do with CSRs.

1) Make extended warranties available to all TiVo owners regardless of where purchase was made. The lack of this option stands out in the CE industry and has to raise doubt about confidence in their products. - both ways

2)Offer customers the option to have their out of warranty DVRs repaired rather than being swapped for a refurbed unit with unknown original problem(s). This would always be my preference and is the way Sony does it with their DVRs. The service center in western PA does its work and returns to customer so quickly that it seems less than the required UPS time. All recordings and settings remain intact. I think that most of the time it's just software being addressed so the flat fee of $150 (was $90) out of warranty is then steep; but at least the option exists. Once in awhile the HDD (also WD) is returned with DVR; don't know about recordings in that case.

----my 2 cents


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

hmm52 said:


> I hadn't seen a post from you in awhile so I figured you were on a diveboat somewhere without an Internet uplink. <snip>
> ----my 2 cents


Agree with all of that...and it's worth much more than two cents! 

Just traveling with work and way too busy is all. Using a company laptop that is so security laced that I can't even get my own e-mail  Guess it's good to have a job right about now though.

Keep your dad and the "kid" well-fed and happy and you'll get your reward...hopefully in this lifetime. Ha!


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## hmm52 (Feb 25, 2008)

Thanks for that. The burden's no big deal. Hard to predict the course of things at the end stage of life though, so personal stuff becomes secondary.

Not trying be obnoxious but "kid" only applies to goats. You're not making up your time in New Zealand where sheep outnumber people, what, 2 to 1, 3 to 1? Sheep are one thing as they're low maintenance, usually. Would never have the tolerance for horses as they're destructive of fences and stalls, not to mention the manure management issue. No longer possible to get a vet to visit livestock in this area which was once semi-rural, now suburban. $$$$. Money talks. Bulls**t walks.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Goats...kids...got it. Shows how much farm boy I have in me...zero. When we left NZ the ratio was about 11 sheep per person.  They're nice, but not so bright. We've had a couple of horses, but they were mostly cared for by professionals...which is good because again...the farm thing.

Fathers prepare their children to leave home. Children prepare their fathers for their last days. Hopefully the first part went well. It's up to us to manage the latter. Don't miss any opportunities to tell them how you feel or to listen to what they have to say.

Okay...how's that for OT?


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

How about posting something remotely relevant to TiVo freezing 

- Rich


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Until this past week, all four of my TiVoHD boxes were fine. Since last Saturday the freeze has hit all four of them. Two have cable cards and two are OTA only. At least they all recorded fine while it had the freeze problem. And each box has been fine since a reboot.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

RichB said:


> How about posting something remotely relevant to TiVo freezing
> 
> - Rich


Fair enough. Guess we got carried away with the "community" part of the TiVo Community Forum. Shameful.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> Until this past week, all four of my TiVoHD boxes were fine. Since last Saturday the freeze has hit all four of them. Two have cable cards and two are OTA only. At least they all recorded fine while it had the freeze problem. And each box has been fine since a reboot.


Wow, all four at once? Do you think TiVo quietly pushed out a small update? IIRC they've done that before w/o changing the software version. I vaguely remember reading about a way to check on that...but it might have been prior to a reboot.


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## rickmeoff (Aug 25, 2006)

i rebooted my mom's THD on Wednesday.......that's normally good for 3-4 days of trouble free viewing.

but it began freezing again on Thursday requiring yet another reboot. That's the quickest the problem has returned since it's started: hopefully, the problem is not about to increase in frequency and this was simply an anomoly.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

richsadams said:


> Wow, all four at once? Do you think TiVo quietly pushed out a small update? IIRC they've done that before w/o changing the software version. I vaguely remember reading about a way to check on that...but it might have been prior to a reboot.


they weren't all four at the same time. Just they all froze during the past week.


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## jkbrowne (Dec 14, 2005)

richsadams said:


> Do you think TiVo quietly pushed out a small update? IIRC they've done that before w/o changing the software version. I vaguely remember reading about a way to check on that...but it might have been prior to a reboot.


I actually was wondering if Tivo has ever done this.  At this point, I wish they would send out *any *update that will fix the freezing issue....secret or not.


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## desmond (May 8, 2008)

Things are getting worse on mine, it used to freeze every few days now it is almost every day. Still no resolution?


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## Stephen Tu (May 10, 1999)

Mine has been freezing, but only after exiting some "trickplay", e.g. play after fast forward, or after an instant replay. I've always been able to get it playing again by either fast forwarding for a bit or hitting replay a few more times, never *forced* to reboot though I rebooted anyway to see if it would stop. I take it other people's are freezing on normal playback & nothing but a reboot gets it unstuck?


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## jimbo1mcm (Jan 8, 2006)

So far we have Hitachi and WD.


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## kenez (Jan 17, 2004)

As I posted a while back, my Series 3 was experiencing freeze/reboot issues whenever it tried to record anything in high def. To unfreeze I would need to unhook the coax. The situation was getting progressively worse and Tivo had me run a Kickstart 54 on the HDD. It passed that test but the problem persisted. About a week later they called to offer a refurbished S3 in exchange for my S3. Since mine was essentially useless I took them up on the offer. The replacement arrived Wednesday. It has been working fine even after it upgraded the SW version from 8.0 to 9.3. So we'll see over time if the new box truly takes care of the problem. My guess, as some have speculated here, is that the upgrade to 9.3 on my original box was installed on space on my HDD that was defective in some way and that began the downward spiral. The one thing that does not add up is the "pass" on Kickstart. 

So, I went through a lot of trouble and lost a lot of previously recorded material (I did transfer some to another box) but I am happy I did the exchange.

BTW, I was concerned about the re-pairing issue on the cablecards but Comcast did it over the phone in about 5 minutes.

Ken


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Thanks for that report Ken. :up: Hopefully things will be back to normal now. And congrats on getting Comcast to do something that made sense for once. Keep us posted!


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## Uncle_Steve (Jul 23, 2004)

I had the freeze happen to me just now while watching a recording.

The picture would freeze and the sound would continue. If I hit 'go back', it would pick up and proceed past where it was frozen. This happened several times. Each time separated by several minutes. I didn't think to time it, but perhaps as much as 10 minutes. Finally, near the end of the program -- say 50 minutes into an hour show, the go back no longer worked and the picture remained frozen.

This time I did check the animations on the menus and such, and the Tivo guy's antennae were moving.

I rebooted the system and it's back to normal. This was on a TivoHD.


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## fehlen (Jun 24, 2003)

Add me to the list. Happened around 5/10. Appears to only freezes on 2+ hour shows. sound continues about 5 seconds. Could this be a bad drive?
Frank


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## 2kbill (Dec 28, 2002)

Our TivoHD has been driving me nuts with the freezing for the last couple of weeks. Seems like it needs a daily reboot to keep running! C'mon, TiVo, fix this.


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## nightdesigns (Mar 3, 2003)

Add my THD to the list as well. I was going to upgrade it this weekend to a bigger HDD, but I may hold off. I thought originally something was wrong with my hardware, but it looks like I'm okay in that department.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

nightdesigns said:


> Add my THD to the list as well. I was going to upgrade it this weekend to a bigger HDD, but I may hold off. I thought originally something was wrong with my hardware, but it looks like I'm okay in that department.


It may well be worth upgrading. AFAIK, no one here that's replaced their hard drive has seen the problem afterward. Put the original hard drive on the shelf. Worst case scenario, it doesn't help and you have to drop the original drive back in and return the new drive to the store.


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## nightdesigns (Mar 3, 2003)

richsadams said:


> It may well be worth upgrading. AFAIK, no one here that's replaced their hard drive has seen the problem afterward. Put the original hard drive on the shelf. Worst case scenario, it doesn't help and you have to drop the original drive back in and return the new drive to the store.


I'll give it a try and report back. I have a Seagate 500gb drive standing by.


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## stream (Jul 25, 2007)

jimbo1mcm said:


> Are all the problems of freezing, etc with WD drives? Have any been reported with the Seagate DB35 drives?


I have a 500 GB Seagate DB35.3 drive, and have experienced the video freezing over the last week. Video freezes but not audio. Reboot fixes it. Could be a memory leak issue?


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

nightdesigns said:


> I'll give it a try and report back. I have a Seagate 500gb drive standing by.


It'll be good to hear the results. :up:


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

stream said:


> I have a 500 GB Seagate DB35.3 drive, and have experienced the video freezing over the last week. Video freezes but not audio. Reboot fixes it. Could be a memory leak issue?


So you've replaced your internal drive in your TiVo with a Seagate DB35 and you're experiencing the freezing outlined in the first post on this thread? If so I think you're the first. That's valuable info.

Is it a TiVo HD or a Series3? Are your menus freezing too or does it just lock up and how often? Details would be very welcome. Can you confirm it's an internal and not eSATA drive that you're talking about? TIA.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

The freezing I see is consistent at consistent times.
Once a recording has stuttering it stutters and stops for seconds at a time. During that time, the TiVo usually does not respond to commands. The IR reception lights blink but it does not respond.

It is unlikely that this is a hard drive issue. My mother-in-law was unable to fully record or watch The View. But other shows work fine.
Problems occur on ABC and CBS.

- Rich


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## txomin (Apr 6, 2005)

My Series3 HD DVR is experiencing the same issues as laid out in this thread.

Two calls to customer support this morning. On the first call the support person suggested powering off and ejecting the CableCards, and seeing if he problem re-occurred - of course it did ... about a minute after I got off the line with her. On the second call, the support person suggested the next step of disconnecting the physical cable connection. After the power-cycle and the subsequent looking at various recorded shows, reconnecting the cable, and re-inserting the CableCards, the problem returned ... with a vengeance.

My unit will now randomly reboot. As I type this I'm watching it do its power up cycle. It was stalled, and then it reset. I have seen it do this once while on the menu system (post 9.3 update).

Of most interest, the last support person I spoke to went off to "double check on software issues" ... of course the response was that they have no information about any issue. Really? I mean are we all insane? Do we all suddenly have defective hardware? Is there even the most remote possibility that all of this simultaneous problems (coincidentally experiencing almost the exact same issue) may have be brought about by the update?

When there's a huge number of people with a problem, where many of us have called tech support, and to get a response that there is no known problem, makes me seriously question Tivo support. We're not mad, or stupid ... but it would be nice to have them acknowledge that there is a problem, and that there is a fix.

Replacing hardware, randomly, on the basis that this is the only option left as a result of "no known software issues" is a seriously questionable option. If it is indeed a hardware issue affecting so many users, that's reason for a recall. If it's a software issue, than acknowledge and inform us of a pending resolution. But to disavow any knowledge .. nice slap in the face to the most supportive and loyal customer base! Thanks Tivo for making me feel special!!


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## remotecontrolled (Nov 2, 2007)

Here's what happened with mine. About two weeks ago my video would freeze about three seconds into viewing, it did this on every channel. I did the soft reboot and that fixed the problem for a while. A few days later, every recording I had would end up freezing, sometimes right away, most times about forty minutes in. The video on the recordings would freeze and my Tivo would reboot by itself. A day or so after that, my Tivo wouldn't reboot, it was stuck on the powering up screen. Today I finally found the time to mess with it, I disconnected the DVR extender, unplugged my Tivo and restarted it without the external hard drive. It's working again, but I've lost just about every one of my recordings. I'm now playing an old episode of Prison Break just to see if it's going to freeze on me again.


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## pacor (Dec 26, 2001)

I think it must be a software issue, not directly related to the expander or any additional hardware. I had mine working fine before the 9.3 software upgrade, after that it started to do the freezing. I replaced it with a new one like two weeks ago and the new one was working fine until today, that it started the same thing. The video will freeze, even do the menus are resposive and even do the video is freeze, it continues to record. The only thing I noticed is that I changed the video output format, since I noticed that the unit was using the default of 480 and I changed it to native, since I have a 1080P HDTV. My HD's are as they come from the box only using OTA, no expander, no cable cards, no hacks. The first one also was set to native. I have a Panasonic plasma TV and I'm using the HDMI connection.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

pacor said:


> I think it must be a software issue, not directly related to the expander or any additional hardware. I had mine working fine before the 9.3 software upgrade, after that it started to do the freezing. I replaced it with a new one like two weeks ago and the new one was working fine until today, that it started the same thing. The video will freeze, even do the menus are resposive and even do the video is freeze, it continues to record. The only thing I noticed is that I changed the video output format, since I noticed that the unit was using the default of 480 and I changed it to native, since I have a 1080P HDTV. My HD's are as they come from the box only using OTA, no expander, no cable cards, no hacks. The first one also was set to native. I have a Panasonic plasma TV and I'm using the HDMI connection.


I have an expanded TiVo HD and it exibits almost the same behaviour except it has stopped recording and also stopped during playback and rebooted. I agree this appears to be something that was introduced in 9.3.

- Rich


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

Amazing. This is a showstopping (literally) bug that first crept onto the radar over a month ago. Just two weeks ago they were asking for customer diagnostics (and got them). And it is still unresolved. And Tivo CSR's are _still_ misdiagnosing the problem.

Doesn't exactly instill the utmost confidence does it?


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## woodr1 (Aug 8, 2004)

I got my new Tivo HD about a month ago direct from Tivo and got the 9.3 software push about a week after that. Everything worked fine until yesterday. Suddenly, recordings start to play then after about 2 seconds either a) completely pause and do not respond to the 'play' button or b) go to video pause while audio keeps playing (again no response to 'play' button). Yes, everything else (menuing, etc) still works.

From what I've read on this forum it appears this happens with multiple kinds of setups (external drive/no external drive, new Tivo/old Tivo, cablecard/no cablecard) so as a longtime IT person, this strongly suggests to me that it is not a hardware issue, but software indeed.

Tivo needs to fix this fast before my wife starts complaining. Please. Oh, please.


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## atomarchio (Sep 24, 2006)

Add me to the list also. I have Series3 HD with 2 cablecards from Time Warner located in Cleveland, Ohio.

Other than reboot, is there a fix in place yet? Any suggestions on what can be done. 

Please let me know. Thanks.


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## woodr1 (Aug 8, 2004)

I did a restart and a recording I had that froze at every point now is playable. Well, I hope this 'workaround' continues to work until Tivo pushes out a bug fix.


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## stream (Jul 25, 2007)

richsadams said:


> So you've replaced your internal drive in your TiVo with a Seagate DB35 and you're experiencing the freezing outlined in the first post on this thread? If so I think you're the first. That's valuable info.
> 
> Is it a TiVo HD or a Series3? Are your menus freezing too or does it just lock up and how often? Details would be very welcome. Can you confirm it's an internal and not eSATA drive that you're talking about? TIA.


I replaced the original drive with the Seagate using WinMFS.

It's a THD.

The following happens, probably a day or 2 after rebooting (which solves the issues):
--When I'm watching a recorded show, the video will freeze, but the audio will continue.
--When watching live show, the video gets jumpy (I believe the audio is OK, but I watch so little live TV that I can't say for sure).
--Haven't noticed menus freezing


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

When tivo starts freezing do i restart it from the menu or unplug it? It happened to me today and i unpluged it.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

stream said:


> I replaced the original drive with the Seagate using WinMFS.
> 
> It's a THD.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the good feedback. :up: Do you happen to have your original drive? If you have absolutely nothing else to do, it would be interesting to know if you see the same issues with it.

Thanks again!


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

tootal2 said:


> When tivo starts freezing do i restart it from the menu or unplug it? It happened to me today and i unpluged it.


Also known as a "hard reboot", unplugging your TiVo, waiting 10 to 15 seconds for the hard drive to spin down and plugging it back in is perfectly fine, no harm will come to it. Some have seen improvements with a hard reboot that weren't accomplished with a soft reboot/menu restart.


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## stream (Jul 25, 2007)

Comments in bold below



richsadams said:


> Thanks for the good feedback. :up: Do you happen to have your original drive?
> *Yes.*
> If you have absolutely nothing else to do, it would be interesting to know if you see the same issues with it.
> *Fortunately, I don't have absolutely nothing else to do (a double negative) .
> ...


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

tootal2 said:


> When tivo starts freezing do i restart it from the menu or unplug it? It happened to me today and i unpluged it.


The TiVo fixes itself when restarted from the menu. So why would you risk unplugging it? One time I lost a DirecTivo for about 1/2 day while it repaired itself from "a severe error has occured" when I unplugged.

The TiVos are computers, first and foremost. Most computers are not designed to just be unplugged. No matter what the claims and assurances of the fanboys.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

stream said:


> Since some with their original drives are having the issue, and some are not, I'm not sure what info it would provide


Let me help you with that then. As you point out, some TiVo's (including ours) with the original drive, are working without any trouble and some are not. Knowing a few more facts about TiVo's that aren't working properly could be very helpful...particularly since yours appears to be the only TiVo mentioned that has an upgraded internal drive and is experiencing problems.

Since the issues described can be caused by a faulty hard drive it is quite possible that's your problem. Pulling your drive and running a full diagnostic might show that all you need do is replace it and you'd have a working TiVo.

If you were to replace your upgraded drive with the original and subsequently experienced no more issues (even after the latest update), that information would be of value and you'd have a working TiVo. It would be equally or even more interesting to confirm that it began having issues after the latest update. Either way, you'd be no worse off than you are now and possibly have a working TiVo again.

Since you're in a fairly unique position, that's the info I (and I'd wager a few others) would be interested in. I'm sure others can think of a few more things reinstalling the original drive could tell us.

Or you can wait for someone else to do something that may or may not have an impact one way or another and continue to have a TiVo that doesn't work. But if you don't have time to do more than post a complaint...I'd understand that as well.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> The TiVo fixes itself when restarted from the menu.


Um... Restarting a TiVo from the menu doesn't trigger an MFS assert nor does it run fsfix or cause it to make multiple passes over the inodes, re-hashing them and clearing collision bits...which I guess would be considered "fixing itself". There are reconfigurations upon a reboot, none of which are called by a menu restart.



Phantom Gremlin said:


> The TiVos are computers, first and foremost. Most computers are not designed to just be unplugged. No matter what the claims and assurances of the fanboys.


TiVo's are Linux based and not subject to data corruption on a power cycle such as a Windows based computer.

Sticks and stones.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

richsadams said:


> Let me help you with that then. As you point out, some TiVo's (including ours) with the original drive, are working without any trouble and some are not. Knowing a few more facts about TiVo's that aren't working properly could be very helpful...particularly since yours appears to be the only TiVo mentioned that has an upgraded internal drive


Mine has an upgraded 1TB Hard drive.

FYI,

- Rich


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Your symptoms are closer to traditional hard drive issue and less like the new type of video freeze TiVo is trying to narrow down. The new style freeze doesn't result in reboots. The menu still works. The TiVo is otherwise functional. The reboot is user-initiated to get rid of the freeze.

In your case, I would suggest looking at the drive to see if there are any issues.


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## remotecontrolled (Nov 2, 2007)

Actually, I think there are many and varying issues all revolving around the same software update, including spontaneous freeze and reboot.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Your problem went away after you disconnected the eSATA drive. It is more likely your problem is related to the eSATA subsystem (cable, drive, enclosure, filesystem on drive, etc.)

As has been mentioned before, there have always been issues involving software updates exposing latent hard drive problems. Those commonly do result in lockup followed by reboot. In those cases, TiVo didn't cause the hard drive problem with the update, rather they exposed the problem.

The seemingly new issue TiVo is trying get more information on is the random video freeze, where the menu system still seems to function.


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## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

Originally I posted about a problem with Tivo HDs regarding video freezing after 9.3 update, which many are experiencing and Tivo appears to have at least recognized as an issue and "is working on it...".

I drop by periodically to add anything of relevance that I learn and read what others are experiencing.

This thread not has posts in it about any random issue anyone is having with any HD Tivo (Series 3, or Tivo HD) and has recommended fixes ranging from reboot to ripping out the hard drive and replacing it. WTF?


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

TiVo engineers are monitoring this thread.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6297984#post6297984


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## titsataki (Dec 7, 2002)

I as well have the freezing problem with all channels HD and SD. 
A restart through the menu does take care of the issue.
Mine is Tivo HD with the original internal drive and the Tivo external "expander" drive.

I will monitor this thred for any new updates.

Cheers

Nick


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

richsadams said:


> Um... Restarting a TiVo from the menu doesn't trigger an MFS assert nor does it run fsfix or cause it to make multiple passes over the inodes, re-hashing them and clearing collision bits...which I guess would be considered "fixing itself". There are reconfigurations upon a reboot, none of which are called by a menu restart.


None of that matters. For the particular "freeze" we have been discussing, all reports indicate that restart thru the menu fixes it. That has also been my personal experience. Also see similar comments by many people in this thread, e.g. message #331 where titsataki says: _A restart through the menu does take care of the issue._



> TiVo's are Linux based and not subject to data corruption on a power cycle such as a Windows based computer.


Ha. Ha. Ha. If you *really* believe that, perhaps I can interest you in the purchase of a suspension bridge between the boroughs of Manhattan and Brooklyn.

First, TiVo uses two different filesystems. They rolled their own to store the video data. Do you trust TiVo to have eliminated all the potential "corner case" problems in their do-it-yourself filesystem? The same TiVo that is responsible for the "freezes" we are discussing in this thread?

Second, the ext2 filesystem that TiVo uses for Linux is hardly the last word in filesystems. A quick google for ext2 corruption turns up many hits. E.g. the Linux  god himself discusses it. Here is one explanation for why ext2 was replaced:

_Since Linux appeared on the scene in the early 90's, ext2 has been the default file system. Though Linux systems are extremely robust and less prone to crashes, you never can tell when a power outage is going to bring your system down suddenly. Though ext2 is a hardy filesystem, there is a risk of data loss when these sudden crashes occur. For this reason, two projects have come up with alternatives known as 'journaling' filesystems. These are ext3 and ReiserFs._


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## frankbh (Jan 27, 2008)

Info requested by TiVo:
I have the 9.3 freezing problem. A menu restart fixes it for a day or several days, and then it returns. 

When a live TV show is frozen, I can push the TiVo button and the menu loopsets still move (searchlights sweep, TiVo teeters). If I go to the NPL and choose a recorded show, it plays OK. Sometimes from a frozen live show (usually an HD channel) if I change channels to an adjacent HD channel it may be frozen, too, but if I move to 2 or 3 away it may not be frozen.

My Tivo HD has a 1TB internal drive and a 1TB external drive, both Western Digital and both installed at the same time by Weaknees. I no longer have the original 250mb drive.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> None of that matters. For the particular "freeze" we have been discussing, all reports indicate that restart thru the menu fixes it. That has also been my personal experience. Also see similar comments by many people in this thread, e.g. message #331 where titsataki says: _A restart through the menu does take care of the issue._


 So you're saying that everyone here that has a complaint about their TiVo's freezing up and otherwise not working...continually...should just restart them using the menu option and everything will be fine? Just like the member did in this post, oh and this post...and well...dozens of others?

Hear that everyone? Now stop complaining!

BTW, you should probably let Stephen and the other folks in on your secret when you get to work at the TiVo offices in the morning.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

richsadams said:


> So you're saying that everyone here that has a complaint about their TiVo's freezing up and otherwise not working...continually...should just restart them using the menu option and everything will be fine? Just like the member did in this post, oh and this post...and well...dozens of others?
> 
> Hear that everyone? Now stop complaining!
> 
> BTW, you should probably let Stephen and the other folks in on your secret when you get to work at the TiVo offices in the morning.


I have shows that once recorded fail at exactly the same point. Channels that are consistently troublesome while others work fine. ABC is unreliable and also CNN (SD).

I know reboot does not work because TiVO decided to do so 4 times while trying to watch NCIS 

- Rich


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## rickmeoff (Aug 25, 2006)

if youre getting this problem as often as we were:

we have taken to rebooting our THD every 2-3 days now, which for the most part has worked as a preventative measure in avoiding the freeze-ups (it exhibited frozen video _once_ a day after a reboot a week ago).


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## oldnacl (Mar 23, 2007)

richsadams said:


> particularly since yours appears to be the only TiVo mentioned that has an upgraded internal drive and is experiencing problems.


Whoa, am I missing something? I posted a few weeks ago that I was experiencing this problem (solved temporarily by a reboot) and I seem to recall reading posts by others with upgraded internal drives, external drives and "stock" TiVo HDs. Anyway, I have a TB Green WD drive in mine that worked perfectly for months. Then it began the freeze issue. I checked and found I had been "updated to 9.3a (I think it is) after reading the early posts.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

oldnacl said:


> Whoa, am I missing something? I posted a few weeks ago that I was experiencing this problem (solved temporarily by a reboot) and I seem to recall reading posts by others with upgraded internal drives, external drives and "stock" TiVo HDs. Anyway, I have a TB Green WD drive in mine that worked perfectly for months. Then it began the freeze issue. I checked and found I had been "updated to 9.3a (I think it is) after reading the early posts.


Okay, good to know. I have the same drive in ours. But I took a bit of time and looked back...can only find the one mentioned and now yours as having problems but w/so many posts I may have missed others w/upgraded internal drives (only). Thanks for that. :up:


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## Mars Rocket (Mar 24, 2000)

I have an upgraded internal drive (only) but didn't mention it because I don't think it's relevant. You can't assume the lack of mention means everybody who has this problem still has their factory drive installed.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Mars Rocket said:


> I have an upgraded internal drive (only) but didn't mention it because I don't think it's relevant. You can't assume the lack of mention means everybody who has this problem still has their factory drive installed.


Of course not, but he has been asking people for this information for quite awhile and nobody has spoken up until now.

Not very helpful not to bother responding because you don't think it is relevant, IMO.

Not sure Rich's line of thinking, but mine was that a replacement drive is more likely to be in good working order than the "older" original drive. (if it were a hardware issue, which most likely it is not)


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

greg_burns said:


> Not sure Rich's line of thinking, but mine was that a replacement drive is more likely to be in good working order than the "older" original drive. (if it were a hardware issue, which most likely it is not)


That's kind of my take too. IIRC some have actually replaced their hard drives and that resolved the issue. But between this thread and several others that have been started which talk about the same or similar issues, it's hard to keep track of who's done what, what's worked and what hasn't.

Some of the symptoms could be hardware related (failing hard drives and/or cable cards, bad eSATA drives and cables, etc.), but that doesn't mean that they are the sole cause. I agree that a problem with the latest update could just as easily be to blame...or a combination of both. And that is why knowing not only the symptoms, but the configuration is important in trying to diagnose things.

The real challenge is to ferret out the bottom line cause. If someone has a bad eSATA cable for example; it may be an easy fix. Sitting around waiting for a software update/bug fix is fine, but doing something about it now and getting a TiVo back up and running is more helpful than just piling on by saying "my TiVo doesn't work and I want TiVo to send me an update." Ultimately an update may or may not have anything to do with what some people are seeing, again, because the symptoms could be caused by something else entirely.

In any case, it's good to get as much info as possible. There are those that just want to throw up their hands and simply complain. If that's what makes them happy I guess that's okay. For those that are experiencing problems I'm always sympathetic...it can be very frustrating. If some of us come up with some ideas about how to address it, I personally don't see the harm and really don't understand the backlash. Everyone gets what they pay for here. Doing something is an option. If it works, great! If not it's time to call TiVo. Of course, not doing anything is another option.


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## willettg (Nov 23, 2004)

I don't know when my S3/HD was upgraded to v9.3, but it is totally unusable when I tried watching Tivo yesterday afternoon. 

I rebooted 4 times by unplugging power from back. S3 comes back, but within minutes is locked up on SD or HD channels. Any suggestions?


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

willettg said:


> I don't know when my S3/HD was upgraded to v9.3, but it is totally unusable when I tried watching Tivo yesterday afternoon.
> 
> I rebooted 4 times by unplugging power from back. S3 comes back, but within minutes is locked up on SD or HD channels. Any suggestions?


Call TiVo tech support. We need to make sure they understand the enormity of the problem.

- Rich


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## willettg (Nov 23, 2004)

I turned on my TV a few minutes ago and the lockup problems are no longer there.

My software version is currently 9.3a-01020648

Don't know what it was yesterday (5/26) when the lockups were being experienced.

Will post an update if / when they reoccur.


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## atlynch (Jan 7, 2005)

I have two TiVo HD's. Both are bone stock. TiVoHD1 has a WD MyDVR expander attached. Both have experienced the freeze. It happens on both SD and HD. Sometimes skipping back and forth solves the problem. Sometimes changing channels works. Rebooting always solves the problem, if only temporarily. I just went to check, and TiVoHD1 is frozen to matter what channel I select, and it is also frozen if I try to play previously recorded shows. The menu animations are still live. TiVoHD2 is not currently experiencing any issues.

I have the resolution set to native and the aspect ratio set to smart screen.

I have Comcast cable. Both units have M cards. Both units are attached to both cable and antenna, although TiVoHD1 is set up cable only currently.

-Drew


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## kiranna (Sep 16, 2006)

Yep, add me to this list! I have been working on this problem for 1.5 months (and posted here back in early spring--thanks to those of you who helped me out back then), going on my 2nd Tivo HDS3. Pixelation, stuttering, followed by (at least several times a day) the Tivo deciding to restart itself. I am running 9.3a. Had the original Tivo, running 8.x, working FINE, then it upgraded itself to 9.2 and mayhem resulted. Got a new Tivo HDS3 with 8.x, worked beautifully until, you guessed it, one day it upgraded itself to 9.2, and kablooey, that one started with the exact same problems. So Tivo support said "go back to the old box, at least you'll have all your old programs from the external 500GB WD drive (which I smartly chose not to reformat to the new box). So, I'm on my old Tivo box now, and I'm basically doing all I can to prevent my wife from throwing it out the window.

Other problems:
- The Main Tivo Menu ("now playing", etc." is BLANK - just the orange screen, the border, and the spotlights waving in the background. NO TEXT.
- Responsiveness to ANY button command is abysmal, if anything--e.g., hitting 'guide' takes 20 seconds, sometimes resulting in the guide showing up, other times resulting in the Tivo locking up and sometimes restarting itself; 
- HD channels are worse, but SD channels also develop pixelation and stuttering
- In most cases, switching away from a channel and back to it (assuming the unit decides to comply with my wishes) "resets" the channel back to good quality, but within 5 minutes it's pixelated and stuttered again
- Tivo support said they would add me to "priority list" to get 9.3b. 

Here's the weird part:
- When the coax cable is plugged into the box, it behaves as described above
- When I unplug the coax (while the box is running), it "snaps back to life" - responsiveness to remote commands is instantaneous again, menus come up quickly, programs play with no issues, (of course no channels come in because the coax is unplugged), but something on that cable is causing the Tivo to act like it's possessed.

Cablevision is coming by on Thursday to swap out Cablecards (which have all of a sudden lost their ability to speak to the head-end, yet another headache). In the interim, Tivo gave me another month's service credit and is sending me a 3rd box to try out, while simultaneously trying to force the current unit to go to Version 9.3b.

The willingness with which Tivo offered the service credit tells me that this is a widespread problem (as does the length of this thread!). I will try and update you all on the results but I am seriously thinking of drop-kicking this thing and getting a lousy cable-provided DVR.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

I am quoiting my post #238 below as nobody (posting here) seems to consider that some of this problem may come from the way the digital signal is coming over your cable system, possible some people on some cable systems have none of this type of problem (like myself and my friends) because of the cable system itself..I think it would be worth looking at this as a possibility. Just trying to help.



lessd said:


> You must also consider the program source that may have an effect on this problem, between myself and friends that have the HD-TiVo I have not seen the problem (except on this form) and that covers about 12 units from people that would (and do) come to me if they were having any problem, but they are all on the Hartford CT Comcast system, most but not all with the M cable card about 8 have upgraded drives...Just trying to help figure why so many people (posting on this form) are having this problem.
> 
> A good question may be does anybody on the Hartford CT Comcast system have this problem ??


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

richsadams said:


> BTW, you should probably let Stephen and the other folks in on your secret when you get to work at the TiVo offices in the morning.


That, right there, is the heart of my problem with TiVo.

I've been writing software, designing computers, and designing chips for over 30 years. I *know* I could do better than what TiVo is delivering now.

Maybe I'm just a blowhard who knows very little. (On the Internet nobody knows you're a dog). But one thing I *do know* is that TiVo could do better. The original Sony SVR-2000 I bought 8 years ago was better than the TiVo HD's I own now. The Sony had a very under-engineered modem, but overall it was more reliable.

This is not progress.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

richsadams said:


> TiVo's are Linux based and not subject to data corruption on a power cycle such as a Windows based computer.


I'm sorry, Rich, but that's nonsense. Linux by itself is no more crash proof during a dirty shutdown for an average configuration than Windows. Both Operating Systems can also be made more robust by implementing various fault tolerant systems. That said, there are some very simple things which can be done to make Linux extremely fault tolerant even during a power failure. Due to the nature of the TiVo in particular, and many embedded systems in general, the effectiveness of these implementations is even greater than that available to general purpose computers.



Phantom Gremlin said:


> Ha. Ha. Ha. If you *really* believe that, perhaps I can interest you in the purchase of a suspension bridge between the boroughs of Manhattan and Brooklyn.


On the other hand, his general mistake concerning why the TiVo is more robust and how it is made so in no way warranted sarcasm on your part, if you ask me.



Phantom Gremlin said:


> First, TiVo uses two different filesystems.


It uses more than that. Well, depending on how strictly one defines the term "filesystem". The kernel is kept on a read-only partition in raw format, so one could argue either way that this constitutes a filesystem or doesn't. It isn't a formal one, to be sure, but then again it isn't subject to corruption and a head strike on the partition is very unlikely. There is also an Apple partition with some sort of obscure information on it. Of course there is also the swap partition, but that hardly counts.

What does count, however, is the fact the root partition is also read-only. Yes, it is ext2, but since in ordinary operation it is never written, the write-fault tolerance of the actual file system is moot. Again, a head strike could kill the data, but a simple power failure never will. What's more, there are not one but *two* boot and root partitions (ordinarily /dev/hda3 & 6 and /dev/hda4 & 7). Although one root and one boot partition usually contain the previous software and kernel, respectively, the alternate root and boot partitions can be used to recover a failed TiVo.

The only "standard" Linux partition on the TiVo which is not read-only is /var (/dev/hda9), but all of /var can and sometimes will be wiped in its entirety.

Because of the structure of the MFS file system, a power failure should ordinarily only cause the loss of any programs being written when the power failure occurs, and even then only the data subsequent to the power failure will be lost. Any data written to a scheduled program prior to the failure will be retained. Even in the extremely unlikley event of a corrupted MFS filesystem caused by a loss of power, the TiVo running partitions will be unaffected, because they are read-only. A GSOD will ensue, but ordinarily even then there will be minimal loss of programs.



Phantom Gremlin said:


> They rolled their own to store the video data. Do you trust TiVo to have eliminated all the potential "corner case" problems in their do-it-yourself filesystem?


The MFS filesystem is over 9 years old. It's very robust, and very mature. Admittedly the TiVo HD uses a 64 bit version of the MFS filesystem, but it is still the same filesystem.



Phantom Gremlin said:


> Second, the ext2 filesystem that TiVo uses for Linux is hardly the last word in filesystems.


No, it's not, this is true, but it also lacks some failure modes found variously in ext3, ReiserFS, and NTFS. I won't even mention FAT. This isn't the salient point, however. A journaled filesystem gains one absolutely nothing if the partition hosting the filesystem is read-only. It can't be corrupted by ordinary write operations because nothing is ever written to it. Replaying the journal would have zero effect because the journal would always be completely empty. Utilizing a journaled filesystem for /var could eliminate some of the ext2 vulnerabilities for /var, but since /var can be erased, it's not worth compiling the extra code into the kernel or the performance hit caused by employing a journaled file system.

Oh, and trust me, journaled file systems can be corrupted, as well. I went through hell a few months ago with a nearly full 4TB ext3 filesystem whose journal Inode was corrupted. It corrupted numerous files by attempting to write the journal out past the physical end of the drive when saving most any fairly large file.



Phantom Gremlin said:


> Though ext2 is a hardy filesystem, there is a risk of data loss when these sudden crashes occur. For this reason, two projects have come up with alternatives known as 'journaling' filesystems. These are ext3 and ReiserFs.


...and neither of them would serve any useful purpose on a TiVo. They certainly wouldn't make it significantly more robust.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

lrhorer,

Seems a bit off-topic.
This problem is repeatable for me and channel specific. It seems likely that it is stream related. Once record bad, it never gets better after reboot etc.

Some channels cannot be recorded.

- Rich


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

atlynch said:


> I have two TiVo HD's. Both are bone stock. TiVoHD1 has a WD MyDVR expander attached. Both have experienced the freeze. It happens on both SD and HD. Sometimes skipping back and forth solves the problem. Sometimes changing channels works. Rebooting always solves the problem, if only temporarily. I just went to check, and TiVoHD1 is frozen to matter what channel I select, and it is also frozen if I try to play previously recorded shows. The menu animations are still live. TiVoHD2 is not currently experiencing any issues.
> 
> I have the resolution set to native and the aspect ratio set to smart screen.
> 
> ...


TiVoHD1 isn't actually "stock" as you're employing an expansion drive. What you're seeing has been reported since last fall when the WD My DVR expander became available. That would be the first thing to check.

The stock eSATA cables have been widely reported to have problems. A couple of things to try: ensure that the eSATA cable is snug at both connections (you might even try reversing it). You can try replacing the eSATA cable with the recommended SIIG Serial ATA cable as noted. (Order here.)

If no joy, you can try properly divorcing the eSATA drive to see if TiVo behaves normally. In doing so you will lose all of your recordings from the point that you added the external drive however.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

lrhorer said:


> I'm sorry, Rich, but that's nonsense. Linux by itself is no more crash proof during a dirty shutdown for an average configuration than Windows. Both Operating Systems can also be made more robust by implementing various fault tolerant systems. That said, there are some very simple things which can be done to make Linux extremely fault tolerant even during a power failure. Due to the nature of the TiVo in particular, and many embedded systems in general, the effectiveness of these implementations is even greater than that available to general purpose computers.


 Sounds good...but I have Linux based servers running CentOS and can power cycle them without any issues...as I can an old Linux based PC sitting here...again, no corruption. It's certainly not as robust as the many TiVo's I've owned...all of which I've power cycled for years and years, every model, and never once encountered corrupted files. Just lucky I guess.  Now if I do the same thing to my Windows based systems....ugh, what a nightmare!


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> That, right there, is the heart of my problem with TiVo.
> 
> I've been writing software, designing computers, and designing chips for over 30 years. I *know* I could do better than what TiVo is delivering now.
> 
> ...


Okay...we agree! TiVo could absolutely do better. :up: To be fair though, comparing your Sony to the THD is a bit apples vs oranges. My Series1 still fires up and runs fine, but it can't do nearly as much as my Series3 or TiVoHD. I don't know that we need all of the bells and whistles that TiVo thinks are necessary to remain competitive, but even if we're just talking about dealing with HD signals and cable cards, my S1 is a Commodore 64 compared to my S3.

But whatever's causing these issues, hopefully they will be ironed out ASAP.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

lessd said:


> I am quoiting my post #238 below as nobody (posting here) seems to consider that some of this problem may come from the way the digital signal is coming over your cable system, possible some people on some cable systems have none of this type of problem (like myself and my friends) because of the cable system itself..I think it would be worth looking at this as a possibility. Just trying to help.


That's almost certainly part of it and would go a long way toward explaining why we aren't having problems and many others are. That TiVo said they were re-working the tuners on refurbs speaks to that as well.


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## Phasers (May 29, 2008)

I'm having this issue as well. My TiVo S3 just gives me a black screen when it starts up and won't even go to the menu. None of the button keys work, nor to the buttons on the TiVo unit itself. It also restarts itself every 5 minutes or so. I cannot even get to a channel to see if it is pixelated or not, although I did have that issue last night. It seemed to be solved by Time Warner resetting my cable cards remotely and then unplugging the TiVo S3 manually to restart it. Anyways, that was last night. Tonight the damn TiVo unit is beyond unusable.

After looking up this post AS SOON AS I unplugged the the coax cable from the back it came back (obviously no live tv) with absolutely NO lag. When I checked software- 9.3a of course

Tried a manual restart from the menu and then plugged the coax back in. Seems to be working (so far). 

This whole thing has completely screwed up my recordings I had scheduled.


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## kiranna (Sep 16, 2006)

Phasers said:


> I'm having this issue as well. My TiVo S3 just gives me a black screen when it starts up and won't even go to the menu. None of the button keys work, nor to the buttons on the TiVo unit itself. It also restarts itself every 5 minutes or so. I cannot even get to a channel to see if it is pixelated or not, although I did have that issue last night. It seemed to be solved by Time Warner resetting my cable cards remotely and then unplugging the TiVo S3 manually to restart it. Anyways, that was last night. Tonight the damn TiVo unit is beyond unusable.
> 
> After looking up this post AS SOON AS I unplugged the the coax cable from the back it came back (obviously no live tv) with absolutely NO lag. When I checked software- 9.3a of course
> 
> ...


Exactly my problem. When I spoke to the Tivo support people, they dismissed the "unplugging of coax makes the Tivo work properly" as irrelevant. It would seem to me to be the heart of the matter---something spilling out of that cable is really mucking up the Tivo.

I am eagerly awaiting the 9.3b software install and 2 replacement Cablecards. I have high hopes


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

lrhorer said:


> On the other hand, his general mistake concerning why the TiVo is more robust and how it is made so in no way warranted sarcasm on your part, if you ask me.


I agree. My response was much too strident. Rich spends a lot of time here helping people, and I hope my response didn't discourage him.

I'm touchy about Linux filesystem robustness because the last time I accidentally power-cycled one of my DirecTiVos I got a message something along the lines of "a serious error has occured". It took many hours of downtime, but the TiVo box made some phone calls and eventually repaired itself. Probably just a coincidence, but still quite annoying.

Also thanks for the exposition about the TiVo filesystems. As someone else mentioned, it was perhaps off-topic to this thread, but I found it quite educational.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

kiranna said:


> Exactly my problem. When I spoke to the Tivo support people, they dismissed the "unplugging of coax makes the Tivo work properly" as irrelevant. It would seem to me to be the heart of the matter---something spilling out of that cable is really mucking up the Tivo.
> 
> I am eagerly awaiting the 9.3b software install and 2 replacement Cablecards. I have high hopes


I agree. It appears to be the problem. Record a stream that upsets TiVo and it will barf on it consistently. Seems to me rather than asking for 777, they should figure out how to transfer a recording that cannot be played.
Hey, but what do I know 

- Rich


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## calvindoth (Nov 1, 2002)

OK this is getting out of hand. Today at 6:30pm I restarted my Tivo because it was starting to freeze and I was going out to dinner. When I got back at 9:15pm both of the tuners were frozen.

On both tuners and HD Now Playing shows
When I reverse through the video it acts normally
When I Fast Forward through the video a single press of FF stills shows frozen video, a double and triple press acts normally
Tivo backgrounds are animated
SD Now Playing also Freeze but it can take a few minutes

Tuner 0 Season Pass Recording channel 702 HD
Tuner 1 not recording channel 709 HD
At 10PM (new 777 clear set and Tivo service contacted)
Tuner 0 stayed on channel 702 to record another Season Pass show
Tuner 1 changed to channel 48 analog to record a Season Pass show and the video was not frozen and working normally
TivoCast seems to be OK 
SD Now Playing Freeze after a few minutes
HD Now Playing Frozen

The original internal hard drive with 9.2 was upgraded to a Seagate ST3750640AS-RK (750gig 16MB cache) using WinMFS MFSCOPY. Shortly after 9.3 was applied (about 2 months ago) the freezing started.
Tivo is set for Fixed 1080i but I've seen frozen vidoe using native settings.
Tiivo is connected using HDMI cable I've tried several cables


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## GadgetVirtuoso (Sep 27, 2001)

I've been seeing this problem also but curiously enough TiVoCasts aren't affected by this problem.


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## jimbo1mcm (Jan 8, 2006)

Tivo, Series 3, stock. On Comcast Ct, 2 M cards. 9.3 software. My unit is working perfectly now for about 2 weeks. I have recorded NOTHING. I even deleted, permanently, the Welcome to Tivo stuff that came with the unit. My deleted folder shows, O. I watch HD and regular channels. I usually just enter the number of the channel I want to watch, rather than using the live button to switch between tuners. HDMI 1.3 cable to an Onkyo 705, then 1.3 cable to Old Sony HDTV CRT.


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## Phasers (May 29, 2008)

Ok now my tivo S3 is completely unusable. I called TiVo and after being on hold for 15 minutes someone finally picked up, put me on hold for 6 minutes, then said he would have to transfer me to another level of HD tech support. After being on hold for another 15 minutes, someone just hung up on me.

I am really starting to get ticked at TiVo here.


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## MikeLeonard (Mar 5, 2004)

Me too... 

Just got a TiVo HD, multi-stream card (from Comcast), using native HDMI output, and a MyDVR Expander -- and I'm experiencing frequent freezes watching HD content live or recorded.

I was about to start returning hardware [to BestBuy], but found some troubleshooting tips, which I'll try this evening after watching tonight's shows (found details for running tests here).

Now I have to wonder if this is a hardware issue or software problem, and if it is a known issue, who is doing what to remedy it. I've never had these issues on my 240- or 540-series TiVo's, so I'm wondering if this truly an HD thing.

I'll keep my eye on this thread...


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

MikeLeonard said:


> Me too...
> 
> Just got a TiVo HD, multi-stream card (from Comcast), using native HDMI output, and a MyDVR Expander -- and I'm experiencing frequent freezes watching HD content live or recorded.
> 
> ...


Those are good options from the TiVo Forum. I always forget about it...not too much traffic there but some good advice.

If you don't have any sacred recordings yet, you might try divorcing your eSATA drive (unplug TiVo, unplug and disconnect the eSATA drive, plug TiVo back in and follow the on-screen instructions). See if it behaves normally after that. If so a new eSATA cable may do the trick or the drive may be the issue. If not, at least you've narrowed it down a bit more.


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## Phasers (May 29, 2008)

This happened to me. I didn't want to lose my recordings so after extensive research I downloaded the winmfs live boot cd. And attached the old tivo drive + the new drive [750GB ] to my computer and booted from the CD.

I ran dd_resue and copied the old drive to the new drive. I had 124k (Yes, only 124 friggin k) of bad files on the old drive.

Anyways after I copied the drive over, I put the new drive in the tivo. After I ensured it was working, I put it back in the computer, booted up with the bootcd, then ran mfsadd.

Anyways, long story short, I guess it *was the hard drive* that was causing all the problems, as now I have a new HD, *no freezing or rebooing*, and 98 hours of HD recording capacity.

----------------
edit: for those that are having issues, I only have a single drive in my tivo so here are the commands i used.

I first downloaded the mfslive bootcd. link here

then I burned to a CD and turned off computer.

I attached both the old tivo drive and the new tivo drive (via sata) before restarting the computer booting directly from the CD.

chose option 1 for mfslive with graphics. after a moment it took me to a command prompt.

first thing I typed was *cat /proc/partitions* (this then displayed all the hard drives attached to the computer (sda, sdb, sdc, sdd))

By looking at the sizes I could tell which was my windows drive (not needed I could have unplugged it), which was my old tivo series 3(something like 244xxxxxx) and my new drive (750GB, so like 7xxxxxxxx).

In *my case* my old drive was *sdb* and my new drive was *sdc*.

So after verifying which drive was which (IMPORTANT- you don't want to erase the wrong drive) I ran the following command to copy (*case sensitive)*.

*dd_rescue -B 1b -b 2M -A -v /dev/sdb /dev/sdc* (again- sd*b* was first because that (in my case) was the old tivo drive and sd*c* was next because that was my new tivo drive.)

After it finished (about an hour or so to copy the entire drive byte for byte) put it in into the tivo (important part if you are expanding capacity- you MUST put it into the tivo first). After it successfully booted, I took it back out of the tivo and booted from the CD again.

This time, at the command prompt (I had everything plugged in the same location- i.e. sda, sdb, sdc were all the same) I ran the following command to expand my recoridng capacity:

*mfsadd -r 4 -x /dev/sdc* (remember my new tivo drive was in the 'c' location)

This took a whole 3 seconds and told me I had gained 599 SD hours of recording capacity.

So I plugged the NEW drive back into the tivo unit and voila- all my recordings, season passes, settings, etc. carried over. no need to reconfigure cable cards at all. and of course, triple recording capacity.

that's all you need to do. Pretty easy. Aside from the waiting on processes, took about 15 minutes total of my time.

Note: The 'mfsadd' above only works if you are replacing *One* tivo drive with *one* tivo drive. You can't merge two drives into one using this command.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

WinMFS is much easier to use. I've been using it since last year with my TiVos. It's so much easier than when I used mfslive.


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## timmsc (Feb 27, 2007)

A followup to my original post on the "Problem: on playback video frozen sound plays fine" thread and another data point.

I have FiOS, Tivo HD from Dec. 2007, 9.3a, HDMI, and 2 S-Cards. I've had the picture freeze symptoms three times since then. The first time was in April, the last time was this past weekend. Two of the three times the SD channels were affected first. One time it was the HD channels first.

I had Verizon out after the first freeze and they detected that the signal was too hot, so they added an attenuator. It didn't help.

A soft reboot temporarily fixes the issue. Recorded shows play fine after the reboot, but have the same symptoms as live TV before the reboot. The TiVo animation loop in the menu screen has never frozen for me.

I haven't called TiVo customer service yet, but that is my next step.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

Add me to the list. 

2 Tivo HDs. Both on Verizon Fios w/2 CC's each. One with a WD Expander, one without. Over the past couple weeks, both have started behaving improperly. The screen will freeze for several seconds, then move, then freeze, then move..... Guide becomes very very slow to respond. Only a reboot fixes it. I hate to actually call Tivo because 1) Support has been useless in the past every single time, 2) It's painful to get through to them, and 3) It's obvious that this is a systemic issue and not something with my particular units. 

Oh, and no HDMI on either set. I'll check version tonight.


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## kevini (Aug 15, 2007)

Add me to the list too. I have 2 TiVoHD's. One with OTA only and the other with Comcast and a Moto M-card. THe OTA one never has a problem and the Cable one has frozen 4 times. It started after the 9.3 upgrade.

A reboot does clear it for a while.


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## Phasers (May 29, 2008)

aaronwt said:


> WinMFS is much easier to use. I've been using it since last year with my TiVos. It's so much easier than when I used mfslive.


I couldn't use winmfs.... had bad sectors on my hard drive... hence running the dd_rescue command


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## sakaike (Jan 22, 2002)

moyekj said:


> From what I've seen it seems many people reporting the freeze problem have external drive added or upgraded internal drive installed. Are there people with no external drive added (before or after software upgrade) and the original drive that came with your Tivo(s) having this issue?


That would be me. One month old TivoHD, stock configuration, native output directly to TV, M-Stream cablecard, Time Warner cable, Redondo Beach, CA, and I am having exactly the same problem.

No other components in the video stream. I'm using a Yamaha sound bar for audio. Rebooting is the only cure so far.


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## smithja639 (May 22, 2008)

1. Does your video freeze ever happen in the middle of recording a show? If so, what happens after a reboot and you go back to play that recording and reach the point where the freeze occurred?
*Not that I've noticed so far.*

2. When there is a video freeze, are the loopsets (the background animation in the menu screens) frozen also?
*Never*

3. If you are in live TV when the video freezes, what happens when you go into Now Playing and play back a previously recorded show? 
*They'll play for a few seconds then freeze, too.*

Have you ever seen a case where a previously recorded show played back normally despite live TV video being frozen at that time?
*Not so far.*

*One other thing that I've noticed is that it seems to happen to me most often just after I've switched channels. In particuilar, if I've switched from one HD channel to another HD channel when I hit 'Prev' on my Harmony remote (I don't remember what button that is on my Tivo remote - sorry.)*

*The freeze seems to be happening to my Tivo HD about once every 3 - 5 days.*


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## rrwcm (Dec 5, 2006)

Add me to the list.
I have 3 Tivo HD's and one Series 3. I have not encountered the problem with the series 3. I do not have external storage devices. All tivo's utilize cablecards from Charter Communications. Two units have 2 single stream cards and the other 2 units have one multi-stream card.
Problem is as detailed in other posts. Rebooting solves the problem for a day or two.


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## Brighton Line (Mar 15, 2006)

Me as well, stock Tivo HD with two SA single streams. It happens about once a week and I freeze on both tuners and have to reboot to fix it.
I also have a Series 3 with an external drive but have not have any issues with it (fingers crossed).


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## Juano11 (Nov 25, 2007)

Having stuttering/freezing problems on my TiVoHD.

Subscribing to thread...


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## LNDIII (Jun 4, 2008)

Yep, me too with the Freezing Problem. Yesterday TIVO Tech support acknowledged a TIVO software problem to me by phone and promised a prompt fix. Bottom Line: I have a case number and TIVO has agreed if no software fix is forthcoming within two weeks I can return the HD Unit, the 500GB expander, and cancel my lifetime subscription. All items purchase from TIVO about 30 days ago. Interestingly, my other (2) Series II machines continue to perform without a problem. Like everyone, unplugging is a temporary fix, but obviously this does not resolve the software issue.


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## ErikD7 (Feb 1, 2008)

I posted back here in Feb but it looks like this is now the official thread.

Same issue here:

TivoHD
Upgraded with 500GB internal HD from Weaknees (original HD never used)
Comcast with one MCard
HDMI running straight to TV
Problem started with 9.3 
Video freezes but audio continues
Can sometimes fix it by fast-forwarding or rewinding for a few seconds, but a restart from menu always fixes it for a few days
Any programs recorded during a "freeze" period always playback fine -- i.e., it seems much more like a "display" issue than a "read/write" issue.
I have not attempted to call Tivo support based on the results of such calls I've read about here.

The real kicker is that I still have a Series 2 that is such a freakin' workhorse that it's hard not to compare the two. I've had that thing shut in a hot cabinet for 5 years, distributing content to three different TVs, and I've never had a SINGLE problem with it.

I also have a Comcast Moto box that doesn't seem to have any of the problems that this TivoHD has, but the interface is just so awful that I can't bring myself to swap it out with the TivoHD, despite the freezing issues. But four months into this, I'm getting close...


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## timwr19 (Jun 22, 2003)

The exact same problem here. I did spend about an hour on the phone with Tivo and it seems the only way to fix is a reboot. Problem occurred again last night during the game. After reboot, everything fix.

Tivo does know about the problem but does not have a resolution (obviously).


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## Sarge3515 (Oct 6, 2003)

Count me in, although my problem seems to be the same it only seems to happen on the HD channels and sometimes when you go to a channel it takes a complete minute or more for the picture to so up.


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## filberttt (Dec 12, 2007)

me too


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## lament (Jul 6, 2005)

I didn't read through the whole thread yet, but this problem is happening intermittently for me as of the 9.3 update.

It's currently happening tonight while America's Most Wanted is on in the background. It freezes, but I don't get audio like some of you. Everything just freezes as if it was on pause.

Rewinding back a second fixes the issue, as does switching channels.


Cox San Diego
no external HD
HDMI via 3x1 HDMI switcher


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

lament said:


> I didn't read through the whole thread yet, but this problem is happening intermittently for me as of the 9.3 update.
> 
> It's currently happening tonight while America's Most Wanted is on in the background. It freezes, but I don't get audio like some of you. Everything just freezes as if it was on pause.
> 
> ...


It may or may not help, but try running an HDMI cable straight from TiVo to your TV, turn your TV off then do a hard reboot (unplug TiVo, wait 10 seconds and plug it back in) and turn your TV on. See if the freezing continues.


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## kinners (Feb 22, 2007)

I am furious about this problem on my Series 3. I called TIVO again on Friday. The rep said that it is a software problem, that the developers are working to solve it and she has no idea when it will be fixed. She said she would send me out a new box, but it would have the same problem.

My box is completely unusable with HD and occasionally usable with non-HD recordings. 

I have been a longtime TIVO customer, but their lack of communication on this issue is insulting.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

kinners said:


> I am furious about this problem on my Series 3. I called TIVO again on Friday. The rep said that it is a software problem, that the developers are working to solve it and she has no idea when it will be fixed. She said she would send me out a new box, but it would have the same problem.
> 
> My box is completely unusable with HD and occasionally usable with non-HD recordings.
> 
> I have been a longtime TIVO customer, but their lack of communication on this issue is insulting.


I am glad its a Software problem and not a hardware problem, if the CSR knew what he was talking about. Its still hard to understand why some (many) people with the same hardware/software don't have the problem.


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## lament (Jul 6, 2005)

^ or why some claim that installing a new hard drive fixes their issue.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

lessd said:


> I am glad its a Software problem and not a hardware problem, if the CSR knew what he was talking about. Its still hard to understand why some (many) people with the same hardware/software don't have the problem.


There are a lot of variables besides hardware/software such as incoming signals, cableCARD hardware/firmware, how the TiVo DVR is connected to the TV, etc. My guess is that there's something in the MPEG-2 stream that the TiVo doesn't like which causes the video to freeze. Depending on what that something is or where it's coming it could affect some people and not others.

If everyone had the same setup, the problem would most likely be simple to solve. Based on the requests for more info I've seen from TiVoJerry, I'm guessing that TiVo has not been able to reproduce the problem in house which would make solving it all the more difficult.


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## moonscape (Jul 3, 2004)

called tivo a couple of days ago about a problem w/ a series 2. told the rep i had a series 3 en route and was nervous because of the freezing problem i had been reading about. he said the same thing kinners was told - that it's a software problem and they're working on it.

i must be nuts to be buying one now, but the amazon deal last week was just too enticing (539 - 200 rebate - 150 gift certificates + free shipping = priceless)


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

morac said:


> My guess is that there's something in the MPEG-2 stream that the TiVo doesn't like which causes the video to freeze. Depending on what that something is or where it's coming it could affect some people and not others.


 That's what I suspected as well, reminiscent of a decoder "Toxic channels" problem when the S3s were first released (Tivo eventually acknowledged and fixed that problem). However, if this was the case then it still doesn't explain how some are apparently able to fix or work around the issue by installing a new hard drive? What does that have to do with the decoder? One explanation perhaps is that symptoms of a failing hard drive and a decoder issue are very similar...


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## jim_h (May 6, 2008)

Tivo has known about this for months and should have no proble getting ahold of a failing unit. Mine started freezing after a month, a friend's after a couple of months. I suspect they'll all do it eventually. 

I don't have cable, just an antenna, so it's not a cable-related problem. As a software developer, I speculate that it has something to do with the hard drive - maybe fragmentation of a cache or buffering file - and that a reboot forces that file to be cleaned up. Just a guess. 

I'd bet $10 that Tivo already has a fix, but they apparently don't do "patches", they just roll up everything into the next major release. It's really a drag as they leave users twisting in the wind for months.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

morac said:


> There are a lot of variables besides hardware/software such as incoming signals, cableCARD hardware/firmware, how the TiVo DVR is connected to the TV, etc. My guess is that there's something in the MPEG-2 stream that the TiVo doesn't like which causes the video to freeze. Depending on what that something is or where it's coming it could affect some people and not others.
> 
> If everyone had the same setup, the problem would most likely be simple to solve. Based on the requests for more info I've seen from TiVoJerry, I'm guessing that TiVo has not been able to reproduce the problem in house which would make solving it all the more difficult.


I said this before on this Thread but i was (maybe a bit sarcastically ) talking about post #380 when Kinners said that TiVo told him _The rep said that it is a software problem, that the developers are working to solve it and she has no idea when it will be fixed. She said she would send me out a new box, but it would have the same problem_


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

moyekj said:


> That's what I suspected as well, reminiscent of a decoder "Toxic channels" problem when the S3s were first released (Tivo eventually acknowledged and fixed that problem). However, if this was the case then it still doesn't explain how some are apparently able to fix or work around the issue by installing a new hard drive? What does that have to do with the decoder? One explanation perhaps is that symptoms of a failing hard drive and a decoder issue are very similar...


I think it's because people are lumping a whole bunch of different problems under the "video freeze issue". The only issue TiVo has "acknowledged" (i.e. requested data about), is the one where the video/audio randomly freezes on playback and requires the user to restart the TiVo in order to "unfreeze" it. Recordings are not affected and play back normally after a restart. This issue is known to only affect the TiVo HD model (not the S3). Replacing the hard drive does not fix this issue, nor does replacing the TiVo (again most likely because there is something locally that triggers the bug).

From the posts I've seen here and in other related threads, people are also lumping in the following issues with the above problem even though they are not the same issue as described:
1. TiVo locking up and/or rebooting on it's own.
2. Video freezing when playing back specific areas of video (fixed by fast forward or rewind).
3. Video stuttering and/or pixelation
4. Video/audio sync issues
5. Problems with S3 models

In many of those cases, the drive could very well be the problem, which is why replacing it solves the issue for some people.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

morac said:


> I think it's because people are lumping a whole bunch of different problems under the "video freeze issue". The only issue TiVo has "acknowledged" (i.e. requested data about), is the one where the video/audio randomly freezes on playback and requires the user to restart the TiVo in order to "unfreeze" it. Recordings are not affected and play back normally after a restart. This issue is known to only affect the TiVo HD model (not the S3). Replacing the hard drive does not fix this issue, nor does replacing the TiVo (again most likely because there is something locally that triggers the bug).
> 
> From the posts I've seen here and in other related threads, people are also lumping in the following issues with the above problem even though they are not the same issue as described:
> 1. TiVo locking up and/or rebooting on it's own.
> ...


Well put !!


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## kinners (Feb 22, 2007)

Called TIVO again. They have no date for the next software release. They want me to pay $150 for a new box PLUS return shipping for my old box. I was furious. My Series3 box is hosed and unusable right now--I cannot even get the menus to come up.

Does anyone have any detailed info on how to swap out the hard drive for a non-techie? Since my box is one month out of warranty I thought I might try to fix it on my own first.

Thanks in advance.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

kinners said:


> Called TIVO again. They have no date for the next software release. They want me to pay $150 for a new box PLUS return shipping for my old box. I was furious. My Series3 box is hosed and unusable right now--I cannot even get the menus to come up.
> 
> Does anyone have any detailed info on how to swap out the hard drive for a non-techie? Since my box is one month out of warranty I thought I might try to fix it on my own first.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Start a new thread in the upgrade forum or help forum and I'm sure somebody can help.

You can relatively easily use InstantCake.

I see they have both original S3 and TivoHD listed on their site now.


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## anonymous22 (Jun 11, 2008)

Posted this on the other thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6373405&posted=1#post6373405), don't know if it belongs here instead

______________________________________________________

Add me to the list...

I have a very basic setup, basically out of the box:
Series 3 w/ Lifetime plan
Coax coming in
2 M-cards (Motorolla) from Comcast
Component Video
Digital Audio to Receiver
TiVo wireless adapter
No external devices, storage, etc.

I have a series 3, that I bought in Early February. I have had difficulties with Time Warner/Comcast of Houston on getting CableCards, but that was finally resolved and all had been working fine, until...

About 2 weeks ago (I believe), it started acting sluggish, slow to respond to the remote... in the last 4-5 days it has become unwatchable... reboots every 30 minutes and hardly ever makes it to the TiVo Central screen. If it does, it is sluggish, and will freeze if I try to go thru menus. I can watch about 4-5 minutes of LiveTv before it freezes... HD channels are worse than Standard. I was getting ready to replace the CableCards when I came on to the TiVo Community to see that it is a common issue. Unplugging the coax does prevent the unit from freezing, so I can watch saved shows, but I cannot record new ones or watch live tv (obviously) with the coax unplugged.

I called last night... waited 45 minutes to get a technician. Explained the problem. He was courteous and easy to work with, but explained that this is a "known issue" and that there are two different problems, one is a software problem that they are working on their end to solve, and the other is a hardware issue. He told me that my options were to take a refurbished unit, or I could buy a new one - but my lifetime would not be transferable. I told him that neither option was acceptable so he put me thru to a supervisor.

Supervisor was again very courteous. I was told that 1 out every 15 or 20 units seems to be experiencing difficulties. Everyone who calls in gets put on a list and it helps the technicians diagnose the problems and understand how rampant the problem is. He suggested to wait it out, because they are working on a new software update. He understood my position that I did not want a used/refurbished unit. I was told that I could not be supplied with a new one, because they were out of stock and would be for possibly another 4 months. He also said that my account would be noted and that TiVo was discussing internally what/how they would go about refunding/rebating/crediting people while service is down. I told him that I had 2 requests: 1) put a public statement out there stating that this is a known issue and that they are working on the problem, and 2) notify people what the status is on getting the issue fixed. He stated that had been discussed, but since they did not have a definitive answer as to what the problem was they did not want to issue a statement. I told him that at least stating that they are AWARE of a known issue would have saved me from being on the phone for 1.5 hours plus the time spent wasted researching online what was going on.

He told me to keep checking the TiVo Community and calling back to check status.


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## anonymous22 (Jun 11, 2008)

^ That's my post....

In reading thru the message board again it looks like there are multiple issues going on:

1) Video freezes (but audio, menus, everything else work) [I think this is the 777 - clear issue]
2) Unit freezes (no video, no audio, no menus... no functions at all) [I think this is the unplugged coax issue]
3) Unit restarts continuously

I fall into more of the #2 and #3 category... when my unit goes down (freezes) it is basically unusable and will go into a vicious rebooting cycle.

Does anyone else agree? can anyone confirm that these are the "known issues"? are they related?


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

kinners said:


> Called TIVO again. They have no date for the next software release. They want me to pay $150 for a new box PLUS return shipping for my old box. I was furious. My Series3 box is hosed and unusable right now--I cannot even get the menus to come up.
> 
> Does anyone have any detailed info on how to swap out the hard drive for a non-techie? Since my box is one month out of warranty I thought I might try to fix it on my own first.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


How disappointing.  All the info you need to replace the hard drive can be found on www.mfslive.org. You'll need WinMFS which is quite an easy program to use if you're at all comfortable with connecting a hard drive to your computer.

Another somewhat easier option is to buy a new hard drive and image it with Instant Cake. (I see they have an image for all TiVo's now including the TiVo HD.) Although you'll have to have your cable card(s) re-paired/re-hit, with Instant Cake you know you'll have a clean drive to start with.

Of course there's no guarantee that a new hard drive will cure your TiVo's problems, however it has reportedly worked for a number of forum members. Depending on the size of the drive you buy, it could certainly be cheaper than paying what TiVo wants.

Good luck and let us know how it goes! :up:

D'oh! I should finish reading all of the messages before replying.  I see Greg beat me to it. Well...at least our advice is the same.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

anonymous22 said:


> ^ That's my post....
> 
> In reading thru the message board again it looks like there are multiple issues going on:
> 
> ...


Your earlier post was a good one and yes, it appears there are several issues being discussed on multiple threads. AFAIK they are not necessarily related to each other. The only common thread seems to be that v9.3x triggered some problems with some units including Series2's, Series3's and TiVo HD's. Upgrades have a history of initiating problems for a small number of users but this one seems to have gone above and beyond the call of duty!

Of course there's plenty of evidence from months and years past that a number of the symptoms that people are posting here and elsewhere can be attributed to other causes both internal and external and may have nothing to do with the latest upgrade. However those folks are thrown into the mix unknowingly because it can be very difficult to diagnose exactly what's wrong and exactly what to do about it (if anything).

That said, it's good to know TiVo is finally coming around to acknowledging that there is an issue. Historically they've been quite good at resolving things, but not nearly as fast as any of us would like of course. I suspect that once another upgrade is issued a lot of the dust will settle. I'm sure it will not fix everything for everyone, but at least they'll be able to move on to making an easier diagnosis of their troubles knowing that it's not the new upgrade problem. Fingers crossed the "fix" won't negatively affect those of us who have working TiVo's now!


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## anonymous22 (Jun 11, 2008)

richsadams said:


> Your earlier post was a good one and yes, it appears there are several issues being discussed on multiple threads. AFAIK they are not necessarily related to each other. The only common thread seems to be that v9.3x triggered some problems with some units including Series2's, Series3's and TiVo HD's. Upgrades have a history of initiating problems for a small number of users but this one seems to have gone above and beyond the call of duty!
> 
> Of course there's plenty of evidence from months and years past that a number of the symptoms that people are posting here and elsewhere can be attributed to other causes both internal and external and may have nothing to do with the latest upgrade. However those folks are thrown into the mix unknowingly because it can be very difficult to diagnose exactly what's wrong and exactly what to do about it (if anything).
> 
> ...


Thank you for the clarification/explanation of the situation, Rich


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## mvalpreda (Nov 13, 2007)

When I switch tuners it seems to work. Makes me wonder if it's a CableCard issue. I have Cox coming out to install an M-card in my new TiVo HD and swap out my 2 S-cards for a single M-card this weekend. Wonder if it will help.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

mvalpreda said:


> When I switch tuners it seems to work. Makes me wonder if it's a CableCard issue. I have Cox coming out to install an M-card in my new TiVo HD and swap out my 2 S-cards for a single M-card this weekend. Wonder if it will help.


Could be...let us know how it goes. :up:


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

In case people aren't following the other thread, TiVoJerry made a request for more info.


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## mweidin (Dec 16, 2006)

I just setup our second Tivo box last week and the freezing problem described in the thread just started this morning.

> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)

652, with a Comcast M-card

2> Are you using HDMI or component video?

HDMI

3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?

Zoom, 16:9 TV, 1080l fixed

4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
I just restarted it this morning, so we'll see.

5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?

from the menu

6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.

An HD recording, recorded last night froze about 30 seconds in, switched to live TV, SD channel, froze after about 10 seconds. Went back to recording, RF & FF unlocked it, it froze again. Deleted everything in Recently Deleted , unfroze it for a few minutes, froze again.. Did a soft reboot and is OK for now.


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## Phasers (May 29, 2008)

I had to fix mine by replacing the Hard Drive. I was having the same issues- freezing on live tv, constant rebooting, etc.

When I replaced/upgraded the HD it fixed the issue entirely! Don't know how or why all I know is that maybe 9.3a detected something with the old series 3 hard drive that maybe it couldn't and perhaps the previous versions were more tolerant.


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## unit101 (Feb 14, 2007)

I will keep this short... feel free to email me direct for more questions or help. 

I have exact same problems with Tivo 3 HD since early May... remove coax input works ok - insert - freezes, lockup, pixelation.... basically Tivo won't work. 

Finally just oredered new HDD from weaknees... Tivo is now on same software 9.3a and working great. I suspect soon I will get 9.4. 

All that I have read (many hours) is that the new software changes a bit how they buffer the video stream... so if your HDD was a bit flacky it is not dead... 

I don't imagine my solution is a fix for EVERYONE... but every single post I have read where they replaced the HDD it FIXED and Stayed Fixed


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## JediTim (Sep 25, 2007)

I noticed last night that the software version on my Tivo changed from 9.3 to 9.4. The notification came via a message on my Tivo HD unit. Apparently there are quite a few changes that have been made. I just hope this fixes everyones issues they have been having. I only experiened the freezing issues once and cleared it by deleting the Tivo suggestions, deleting the files in the recently deleted folder and forcing a restart. 
Tim


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## jenMORAN (Oct 18, 2005)

Hi I got my HD tivo 3 months ago. It has locked up 9 times. It works after I reset system. We lose shows during the 1/2 hour reset process. I see many people have same problem. Does anyone have the CURE?


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

unit101 said:


> I will keep this short... feel free to email me direct for more questions or help.
> 
> I have exact same problems with Tivo 3 HD since early May... remove coax input works ok - insert - freezes, lockup, pixelation.... basically Tivo won't work.
> 
> ...


Are you a FIOS customer?

- Rich


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## Mars Rocket (Mar 24, 2000)

jenMORAN said:


> Hi I got my HD tivo 3 months ago. It has locked up 9 times. It works after I reset system. We lose shows during the 1/2 hour reset process. I see many people have same problem. Does anyone have the CURE?


Do you mean Reboot or Reset? You should only have to reboot the unit to fix the problem that's being discussed in this thread, and rebooting shouldn't lose any shows and should only take about 10-12 minutes. If your TiVo is taking 30 minutes to reboot then I suspect you have hard drive problems - it's probably doing a filesystem check when it reboots.

Also, the latest System Software (9.4, currently being released) may fix this problem. What version are you currently running?


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## TGrub (Jul 29, 2008)

I was told by a rep that the 9.4 update is being released this morning. Whoo hooo!!
Hopefully my HD will have it by the time I get home!


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## JediTim (Sep 25, 2007)

TGrub said:


> I was told by a rep that the 9.4 update is being released this morning. Whoo hooo!!
> Hopefully my HD will have it by the time I get home!


I already have it on one of my two TiVo HD unitis. I expect the other shortly.
Tim


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## djquest (Feb 18, 2008)

I too was experiencing this issue. There was no rhyme or reason to when it occurred. As has been the case, a restart fixes the issue. I performed a "connect to the Tivo service" twice to try and update. On my second attempt I was notified that an update was scheduled for 2:00 am. Let's see if this fixes the issue (*fingers crossed*).


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

djquest said:


> On my second attempt I was notified that an update was scheduled for 2:00 am. Let's see if this fixes the issue (*fingers crossed*).


No need to wait (if you don't want to)...simply reboot TiVo and the update will be installed immediately.


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## alp44 (May 21, 2003)

anonymous22 said:


> ^ That's my post....
> 
> In reading thru the message board again it looks like there are multiple issues going on:
> 
> ...


Thas is so my case. I'm in # 1. and I know it's not my cable since my Time Warner HD DVR works fine... I've only had the problem the moment v. 9.4 loaded....yikes!!!


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

alp44 said:


> ...and I know it's not my cable since my Time Warner HD DVR works fine...


Sorry to hear that you're having problems. Although it may well not be the issue, it's not a good idea to assume that it's _not_ a cableco problem simply because one of their DVR's will work. We had the same thoughts a while back and it turned out it was indeed a cableco problem at the headend. Three truck rolls and three denials (it _must _be your TiVo) later they sorted it out and everything has been fine since.

The architecture of a TiVo and the common cableco DVR can be quite different. Some use cable cards like TiVo, others don't. The signal processing can also be quite different and is often proprietary to the company. There are many posts on many threads recounting how a cableco will try to wash their hands of any problems simply because their box works...it's really meaningless. Until you're positive that your incoming signal is what it should be 24/7, avoid assuming anything. TiVo's diagnostic screens allow you to check for corrected and uncorrected errors, signal strength, etc. That's a start. If anything looks out of the ordinary start with your own setup, cables, etc. and work your way up to having your cableco come out and test everything on their end.

It's the old "garbage in, garbage out" axiom. Cable companies can make any number of changes that suddenly change the signal...from system-wide updates to a tech hooking up a new customer down the street and screwing up the wiring for your house. Once you're satisfied that everything coming in to TiVo is as it should be, then it's time to move on to other diagnoses.

That said, upgrades have been known to cause issues for some TiVo's. There's wide ranging speculation as to why including borderline drives finally giving out, data corruption in one of the two root partitions where the O/S resides, etc. You might want to have a look at this thread which is a little more current and see if some of the issues and suggestions make any sense in your case.

Best of luck and let us know how things go.


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## alp44 (May 21, 2003)

richsadams said:


> Sorry to hear that you're having problems. Although it may well not be the issue, it's not a good idea to assume that it's _not_ a cableco problem simply because one of their DVR's will work. We had the same thoughts a while back and it turned out it was indeed a cableco problem at the headend. Three truck rolls and three denials (it _must _be your TiVo) later they sorted it out and everything has been fine since.
> 
> The architecture of a TiVo and the common cableco DVR can be quite different. Some use cable cards like TiVo, others don't. The signal processing can also be quite different and is often proprietary to the company. There are many posts on many threads recounting how a cableco will try to wash their hands of any problems simply because their box works...it's really meaningless. Until you're positive that your incoming signal is what it should be 24/7, avoid assuming anything. TiVo's diagnostic screens allow you to check for corrected and uncorrected errors, signal strength, etc. That's a start. If anything looks out of the ordinary start with your own setup, cables, etc. and work your way up to having your cableco come out and test everything on their end.
> 
> ...


 Thanks a mil for taking the time to post suggestions. I will look over my diagnostic screen and see if anything looks odd. I'm on a series 3 with 2 cable cards, so who knows?

Thanks, 
Alp


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