# 6.2 Rollout delayed



## rminsk

From http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/701908/an/0/page/0#701908

Patch is going to be delayed for a while. A bug has been discovered where you would change channels and the wrong channel would come up. This has only affected a small portion of the beta boxes in the LA market, but it was significant enough to cause the patch to be pushed out. Code is being sent back to Tivo for revision and then it will be resubmitted for testing again.


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## Tekneek

Great.


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## KungFuCow

How ironic this happened when the FFWD Ad program was announced.


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## Dkerr24

Since the only real improvement with 6.2 is folders, they can take as long as they want.


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## netronin

Having folders is actually a really nice feature. Also, the speed improvement
is very noticeable (especially using the channel guide).


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## Klaitu

arrrgh, all this for an update that was coming in "at the end of January"


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## ddobson

Dkerr24 said:


> Since the only real improvement with 6.2 is folders, they can take as long as they want.


Well I guess I can hack and add it manually, I wanted to add a large drive so I was looking forward to the LBA48 support. Maybe I'll just go ahead and throw 4.0 on it then I won't have to worry about those pop up ads and I'll have network support and LBA48.

Guess I'll have to sweet talk my server friends at work


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## tivoboi

Klaitu said:


> arrrgh, all this for an update that was coming in "at the end of January"


Would you rather have a steaming pile in January or something that actually switches to the correct channel in June?


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## rifleman69

netronin said:


> Having folders is actually a really nice feature. Also, the speed improvement
> is very noticeable (especially using the channel guide).


You can have folders, or at least similar groupings already with a simple code that's found on these very boards.

6.2 can wait, I'm happy and content with what I have now.


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## Gunnyman

I've had folders since January.
(and some other stuff too)


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## Savageone79

How can you have similar features as folders with the older software?


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## rminsk

Savageone79 said:


> How can you have similar features as folders with the older software?


4.x which was only released on the standalone boxes actually works on the DirecTiVo series 2 machines. 4.x has folders.


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## Oknarf

rminsk said:


> From http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/701908/an/0/page/0#701908
> 
> Patch is going to be delayed for a while. A bug has been discovered where you would change channels and the wrong channel would come up. This has only affected a small portion of the beta boxes in the LA market, but it was significant enough to cause the patch to be pushed out. Code is being sent back to Tivo for revision and then it will be resubmitted for testing again.


I don't believe a word of it. We all know what this is about. The bond is broken.

Now, where was that article about Comcast and Tivo? Must be prepared...


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## rminsk

Oknarf said:


> I don't believe a word of it. We all know what this is about. The bond is broken.


Please enlighten me. I do not know what it is about.


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## Gunnyman

patch has been delayed to bring in the new pop up ads?


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## rminsk

Gunnyman2k3 said:


> patch has been delayed to bring in the new pop up ads?


No. There is a real bug in the 6.2 release...


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## bbristow

Why can't the idiots that program this stuff discover such bugs before it rolls out in the first place. Seems there is nearly 6 months from when you first hear of a new "upgrade" and the time you actually get it. And all for what? Not much improvement or fixes in any newer version I've seen.


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## dtremain

bbristow said:


> Why can't the idiots that program this stuff discover such bugs before it rolls out in the first place. Seems there is nearly 6 months from when you first hear of a new "upgrade" and the time you actually get it. And all for what? Not much improvement or fixes in any newer version I've seen.


Don't do much computer programming do you? The bugs come out in useage, sometimes in some machines and not others, sometimes under very specific circumstances. The only real way to find them is extensive use. Be glad that they are doing this right.


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## Chilli_Dog

dtremain said:


> Don't do much computer programming do you? The bugs come out in useage, sometimes in some machines and not others, sometimes under very specific circumstances. The only real way to find them is extensive use. Be glad that they are doing this right.


 Very true and insightful statement, dtremain. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Of course, I'm a programmer...


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## krsjuan

rifleman69 said:


> You can have folders, or at least similar groupings already *with a simple code* that's found on these very boards.


What's this "simple code" you speak about.


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## bbristow

Well wonder about how long it may NOW be before the rest of America ever sees the 6.2 release? How long will the "fix" and L.A. "test" take?


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## Sartori

Like I said in a previous post. 

We were getting our chains yanked....


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## cwerdna

krsjuan said:


> What's this "simple code" you speak about.


From http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=122090

"Sorting the Now Playing List...
In Now Playing, Enter: 
(S)low (0)Zero (R)ecord (T)humbsUp"

aka SORT or Superfriends Of Reality Television as TivoPony would say.


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## Klaitu

tivoboi said:


> Would you rather have a steaming pile in January or something that actually switches to the correct channel in June?


I would rather have 4.0


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## jacket88

Think the rollout of a version with the popup ads will take this long? I bet they can roll that one out in a month.


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## btwyx

dtremain said:


> Don't do much computer programming do you? The bugs come out in useage, sometimes in some machines and not others, sometimes under very specific circumstances. The only real way to find them is extensive use. Be glad that they are doing this right.


Very true. I do quite a bit of programming, and however hard we try there's always a bug which slips through.


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## WeBoat

We have quite a few people here who have the new code. Has anyone actually seen this proposed channel switching bug? I read almost all posts here, and I've not heard it mentioned.

I'm thinking this has something to do with the adds, and directv is using this 'bug' as an excuse to add/or fix something else....

IMHO.....


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## DouglasPHill

KungFuCow said:


> How ironic this happened when the FFWD Ad program was announced.


lol


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## Lee L

WeBoat said:


> We have quite a few people here who have the new code. Has anyone actually seen this proposed channel switching bug? I read almost all posts here, and I've not heard it mentioned.
> 
> I'm thinking this has something to do with the adds, and directv is using this 'bug' as an excuse to add/or fix something else....
> 
> IMHO.....


Given that I upgraded my machine to 100 hours and it is dog slow, I have been following the 6.2 threads. I have noticed at least 2 threads recently with people complaining about it I think with a few more posters chimning in that they also had the problem.


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## ProStreet

jacket88 said:


> Think the rollout of a version with the popup ads will take this long? I bet they can roll that one out in a month.


What is this ads that we are talking about? I have not seen a post about it.

Edit: Now I see the post that talks about the popups.


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## ddobson

Tivo is testing throwing ads on the screen when you fast forward or skip commercials using the 30 second skip. I believe this is what they are talking about. I have seen varying stories but it sounds like 1/4 of the screen would fill with an ad while you're skipping a commercial or something.


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## Dolfo

ProStreet said:


> What is this ads that we are talking about? I have not seen a post about it.


There was an announcement recently (yesterday or the day before) that DirecTV and TiVo had reached an agreement on DTiVo advertising content. Many people here are speculating that this means we will see the TiVo ad pop-ups when we start FFing through commercials (something that SA TiVos are now implementing), though it could just apply to the Showcase advertising (there weren't many specifics so we'll have to wait and see).

I got the 6.2 update and haven't had any problems changing channels - does anybody know any specifics on this "bug"?


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## Bamiller3

bbristow said:


> Why can't the idiots that program this stuff discover such bugs before it rolls out in the first place. Seems there is nearly 6 months from when you first hear of a new "upgrade" and the time you actually get it. And all for what? Not much improvement or fixes in any newer version I've seen.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't that the whole point of doing a beta test to discover bugs that you might not have caught in development/QA?


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## jmoak

ddobson said:


> Tivo is testing throwing ads on the screen when you fast forward or *skip commercials using the 30 second skip.* I believe this is what they are talking about. I have seen varying stories but it sounds like 1/4 of the screen would fill with an ad while you're skipping a commercial or something.


How can I see a popup in a commercial while using the 30sec skip when I don't even see the commercial??


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## jimpilot

If they add ads on fast forward to it, well let's just say it won't make my day. I'd try and hack the upgrade myself but I know I's screw it up


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## Mikey_C

jimpilot said:


> If they add ads on fast forward to it, well let's just say it won't make my day. I'd try and hack the upgrade myself but I know I's screw it up


I'm sure someone will figure out a way around it. After reading about this new popup ad strategy from Tivo I can honestly I can't wait until D* rolls out their new hardware and gives 'em the boot.


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## crvboy

Mikey_C said:


> I'm sure someone will figure out a way around it. After reading about this new popup ad strategy from Tivo I can honestly I can't wait until D* rolls out their new hardware and gives 'em the boot.


Who says that D* won't add that into their software as well, especially if they find they can make money at it.


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## KungFuCow

crvboy said:


> Who says that D* won't add that into their software as well, especially if they find they can make money at it.


Exactly.. you can bet that if this generated revenue for DTV that it will surely be in their own DVR.


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## Joe C

I believe they found a bug in the software, it does happen but what's next ? Do they fix that bug OR do they skip 6.2 and go right to the 7.x pop up software. I think they will go the 7.x route.


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## mphare

What DTV can do is steal a left side and bottom border of the screen, about 10%, shrink the picture to fit in the remaining 90%. Then they can run scrolling commercials and pop-ups 24x7 on all channels in the border areas.


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## Thespis

> Then they can run scrolling commercials and pop-ups 24x7 on all channels in the border areas.


Then, immediately after that, they can go bankrupt as we all bail for another provider...


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## Mark W

So was the bug actually the problem of it deleting your favorite channels list? This would fit the description of a small number of units had the problem, since I don't think that many people have their channels set to favorites only. I would guess the fix for that would be somehow saving the favorites list, or changing it so that the channel changing list is the channels I receive list.


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## rminsk

I'm sorry to say this but what a bunch of conspiracy theorist everybody is turning out to be. There is a bug, they stopped the release to fix it , and they will roll it out when it is working. This has nothing to do with popup ads. The press release from yesterday describes current advertising methods. The last major rollout DirecTV had was 3.1.1d and it had a major problem. They had to quickly roll out 3.1.1e to fix it. I'm glad DirecTV is actually doing testing this time and making sure it works.


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## jacket88

It's not a conspiracy theory, it was just a statement that if the release was some sort of profit vehicle like popup ads... then they would get it right and roll out more aggressively.


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## apollo8fan

Let's see, this 6.2 was announced for January, it's now April. If testing of the gold version of 6.2 took this long, will a patch for the gold release take just as long? If so, we may not see 6.2 until July.


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## ChristianZane

Wrong. Real improvement is the speed increase, I see difference of about 500% with some functions.



Dkerr24 said:


> Since the only real improvement with 6.2 is folders, they can take as long as they want.


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## Kepler

Is the upgrade downloaded from the phone line? Because I have not been able to connect with the daily phone call in almost a month (the modem handshake fails). This is right around the time I got DSL. Has anyone had any problems with DSL and the TiVo phone call?


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## rvfrueh

Kepler said:


> Is the upgrade downloaded from the phone line? Because I have not been able to connect with the daily phone call in almost a month (the modem handshake fails). This is right around the time I got DSL. Has anyone had any problems with DSL and the TiVo phone call?


 The answer to your first question is no, but it is activated by the phone call. Do you have a DSL filter on the line that goes to your TiVo? All jacks except the jack that your DSL modem is plugged into need a filter if you plug phone equipment into them.

R


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## Doug G

Kepler said:


> Is the upgrade downloaded from the phone line? Because I have not been able to connect with the daily phone call in almost a month (the modem handshake fails). This is right around the time I got DSL. Has anyone had any problems with DSL and the TiVo phone call?


No, its received from the satellite, but it IS activated with a phone call.

Make sure you placed a filter on your Tivo's phone line, otherwise the DSL signals will interfere with the modem. If you ran out of filters, you can get more at any electronics store (BB, CC, even Radio Shack)

My Tivo has been working fine with a DSL filter since Dec.


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## Kepler

rvfruehDo you have a DSL filter on the line that goes to your TiVo? All jacks except the jack that your DSL modem is plugged into need a filter if you plug phone equipment into them.
[/QUOTE said:


> I'm pretty sure I do, but I will check. Thanks.


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## rminsk

Doug G said:


> No, its received from the satellite, but it IS activated with a phone call.


It can come over the phone in some situations. If your machine was not hooked up to the satellite when the software was begin pushed out on the satellite (and cached it to disk) and it wants to activate the software it will download it over the phone.


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## tivoboi

apollo8fan said:


> Let's see, this 6.2 was announced for January, it's now April. If testing of the gold version of 6.2 took this long, will a patch for the gold release take just as long? If so, we may not see 6.2 until July.


Link to the DirecTV "announcement?"

Didn't think so.


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## jacket88

> Link to the DirecTV "announcement?"
> 
> Didn't think so.


Thought so


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## rminsk

tivoboi said:


> Link to the DirecTV "announcement?"


 http://www.directv.com/see/landing/dvr_upgrade.html


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## tivoboi

jacket88 said:


> Thought so


Look again. From the FAQ:



> *When will I receive my upgrade?*
> The 6.2 software upgrade will roll out over a period of several months beginning in February, 2005. Customers with more than one DIRECTV DVR may receive their upgrades at different times for each receiver. We appreciate your patience while we deliver these new and improved features to eligible DIRECTV DVR customers nationwide.


DirecTV *never* announced 6.2 for "January" as the opie claimed, nor was there any performance guarantee that the opie would have it anytime soon. In fact, DirecTV clearly states *"The 6.2 software upgrade will roll out over a period of several months."*

People whining about not having 6.2 when it was "promised," calling TiVo programmers "idiots," and other assorted nonesense either need a reality check or should get some sun more often.

Like I said, thought so.


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## rminsk

tivoboi,
You just asked for a link to the announcement which we provided...


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## tivoboi

rminsk said:


> tivoboi,
> You just asked for a link to the announcement which we provided...


I was asking for the link to the announcement that the opie refers to:



apollo8fan said:


> Let's see, this 6.2 was announced for January, it's now April.


Keep digging.


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## apollo8fan

tivoboi said:


> Link to the DirecTV "announcement?"
> 
> Didn't think so.


Oh, my, sarcasm is is lost via a medium such as this.

I intentionally exaggerated my point. It was to show my displeasure with this whole thing.

This whole thing is like Microsoft's Longhorn: Say it's coming, then delay, upon delay, upon delay, keep talking about how great it's going to be, make press releases and fancy web pages about the forth-coming product, and then when the release is four years late say, "we never promised a release date".
^^^^^^^^
More sarcasm


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## apollo8fan

I just love their calling this "6.2" like it's some great upgrade over the 3.1.1 that we have. In essence, this is 4.0LT (as in: limited/lower/least technology). How long has 3.1 been out? How long has 4.0 been out? How can all these minor changes take so long to program, alpha test, beta test, ad infinitum? Calling this 6.2 would imply (using other nearly every other company's software as a guide for this extrapolation) that it has everything that versions 4 and 5 have and then some.


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## apollo8fan

tivoboi said:


> Look again. From the FAQ:
> 
> DirecTV *never* announced 6.2 for "January" as the opie claimed, nor was there any performance guarantee that the opie would have it anytime soon. In fact, DirecTV clearly states *"The 6.2 software upgrade will roll out over a period of several months."*
> 
> People whining about not having 6.2 when it was "promised," calling TiVo programmers "idiots," and other assorted nonesense either need a reality check or should get some sun more often.
> 
> Like I said, thought so.


Name calling isn't necessary, Tivo "Boy". You wouldn't understand sarcasm if it slapped you in the face.


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## rminsk

apollo8fan said:


> How can all these minor changes take so long to program, alpha test, beta test, ad infinitum?


It could be a total rewrite of the total code base for all we know. With access to there source tree and revision logs we can never tell.


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## tivoboi

apollo8fan said:


> Oh, my, sarcasm is is lost via a medium such as this.
> 
> I intentionally exaggerated my point. It was to show my displeasure with this whole thing.


Displeasure with what? DirecTV never promised that you'd get 6.2 in January. In fact, they didn't promise that you'd get it on any specific date. So what do you have to be displeased about? The fact that TiVo doesn't want to release software that might break some fundamental functionality of your unit?

DirectTV stated that 6.2 would start appearing in February and roll out "over several months." So even if it takes them 'til July to start it up again, they've kept their word.

The only people promising hard and fast dates have been the Message Board Brigade.


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## cowboys2002

Well,

My hdvr2 received 6.2 2 weeks ago. My newer Philips DSR 708 has yet to receive it. 

This past Saturday, I had a message on the HDVR2 about the new software after the next call in. The Philips Box has yet to notify me, and countless "waiting" for next call in has not resulted in 6.2 .

To be quite honest, the folders take a little bit to get used to!!


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## Pauli

FWIW, my unit received the 6.2 update this morning. If it was supposed to be "delayed", why did mine get activated today, _after_ the decision was already made to delay the rollout?


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## rminsk

Pauli said:


> FWIW, my unit received the 6.2 update this morning. If it was supposed to be "delayed", why did mine get activated today, _after_ the decision was already made to delay the rollout?


Your machine was already on the list to receive the update and the phone call activated it. Once your machine is on the list for 6.2 they do not roll it back.


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## tivoboi

Pauli said:


> FWIW, my unit received the 6.2 update this morning. If it was supposed to be "delayed", why did mine get activated today, _after_ the decision was already made to delay the rollout?


Could be that we're all arguing about something that didn't even happen!


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## ChristianZane

You can manually turn off folders.



cowboys2002 said:


> To be quite honest, the folders take a little bit to get used to!!


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## btwyx

tivoboi said:


> Could be that we're all arguing about something that didn't even happen!


That'd be unusual, usually the arguments are about something which will never happen.


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## skinnyjm

I have a couple of questions,
Wasn't 6.x used on Series2 SA units before?

If so,
What part of the code, that DTV had TiVo change, would break the channel changing part?

If not,
Forget the second question. 

Either way, I can't believe it would be used as an excuse for the dreaded "Pop Up" ads.
They're smarter than that and they know we're not that dumb.  

So I guess they will redownload a "6.2a" version?


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## rminsk

skinnyjm said:


> I have a couple of questions,
> Wasn't 6.x used on Series2 SA units before?


I do not think they had 6.x for the SA units.



> If so,
> What part of the code, that DTV had TiVo change, would break the channel changing part?


Remember SA units use IR to change the channel and only a single tuner too worry about. Could not really guess what the problem is without the source code.


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## dtremain

Pauli said:


> FWIW, my unit received the 6.2 update this morning. If it was supposed to be "delayed", why did mine get activated today, _after_ the decision was already made to delay the rollout?


Becasue you are in Southern California where they are test releasing it. The "delay" is for the rest of the country.


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## dtremain

btwyx said:


> That'd be unusual, usually the arguments are about something which will never happen.


  I know...let's start talking about how Directv is going to cause all of our machines not to work because they want to sell their own which aren't even on the market yet. Hey, if we talk about that, maybe our "window" buttons will work!!!


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## skinnyjm

rminsk said:


> I do not think they had 6.x for the SA units.
> 
> Remember SA units use IR to change the channel and only a single tuner too worry about. Could not really guess what the problem is without the source code.


Thanks rminsk,
For some reason I thought 6.x was used by TiVo before. 

So, I guess I'm still wondering,
What part of the 3.1.1e code, addressing dual tuners, got broken by 6.2? 
Channel changing seems pretty basic to me. 
But like you have said, without the source, who knows?


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## btwyx

dtremain said:


> Hey, if we talk about that, maybe our "window" buttons will work!!!


Mine works.


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## dssdbs

The only thing wrong with my DirecTiVo's right now is 2 - 5 second audio dropouts on all of the MusicChoice channels. If this isn't fixed in 6.2, then I could care less if 6.2 is ever deployed.

Come on DirecTV/TiVo!!! This problem has been around for over a year now, why hasn't there been a fix yet? I wonder if MusicChoice knows that there are dropouts on their channels?


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## dssdbs

dtremain said:


> I know...let's start talking about how Directv is going to cause all of our machines not to work because they want to sell their own which aren't even on the market yet. Hey, if we talk about that, maybe our "window" buttons will work!!!


People just like to spread FUD... I am not the least bit worried about DirecTV's continued reliance on TiVo for a Quality DVR for their service.


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## dtremain

dssdbs said:


> People just like to spread FUD... I am not the least bit worried about DirecTV's continued reliance on TiVo for a Quality DVR for their service.


Neither am I. Didn't the silly faces make that clear? Sorry if my little attempt at humor fell flat. As my penance, I will go try to figure out what my USB port does.


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## skinnyjm

dtremain said:


> Neither am I. Didn't the silly faces make that clear? Sorry if my little attempt at humor fell flat. As my penance, I will go try to figure out what my USB port does.


Me Neither,
I'm onboard with DTV too, been with them as my TV provider for over 5 years now and haven't been disappointed.
:up:

USB port? What's that???


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## cwerdna

apollo8fan said:


> I just love their calling this "6.2" like it's some great upgrade over the 3.1.1 that we have. In essence, this is 4.0LT (as in: limited/lower/least technology). How long has 3.1 been out? How long has 4.0 been out? How can all these minor changes take so long to program, alpha test, beta test, ad infinitum? Calling this 6.2 would imply (using other nearly every other company's software as a guide for this extrapolation) that it has everything that versions 4 and 5 have and then some.


See my post at http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=2585456&highlight=version#post2585456 for my hypothesis about their source trees.

Just because there's been a HUGE gap between 3.1.x and 6.2 doesn't mean that they've been working on it all along and putting many resources on it. I've been working on software for years now and it's a pain in the ass to deal w/multiple simultaneous projects and code bases.

You've got the separate code and different sets of test cases for each (presumably a lot is common, but there are differences) and then you have to run them. What happens when they make a fix in 3.x that they want to fix in higher numbered versions? They need to propagate the same change forward and run tests. What about the other way? They've made UI changes and added features in each version (and possibly removed some too), so you've got to maintain test cases that deal w/that, esp. since some cases don't make sense in certain versions.

They've got a growing set of different hardware too.

They've also got their priorities as to what they need to get out the door for who (themselves, DirecTV, xxx OEM, etc.) and why (reasons like major bug that needs fixing, complaints, competition, business, contractual, xxx OEM plans to ship on yyy date, more $, etc.). With DirecTV, I'm sure they're gated by what DirecTV wants and what DirecTV will pay Tivo. Right now, they're probably working on a Japanese Tivo release, fixes to 6.2, stuff for Comcast, some other future release and who knows what else?

Many businesses aren't that easy to run, Tivo's being one of them.


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## Doug G

Sorry to rain on the conspiracy parade, folks. Check this post for more info.

Let's hope this is just a quick patch requiring minimal re-test and will only hold up the release another week or two at the most.


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## Philly Bill

ddobson said:


> ...it sounds like 1/4 of the screen would fill with an ad while you're skipping a commercial or something.


You know.. who cares really? You're not skipping through the commericals because you are dead set against what is being advertised... you're skipping through the commercials so you can get to the 're'start of the show as quickly as possible.

So who cares if they put up a pop up ad as long as I can still skip forward as fast as I am now. I really could care less. Maybe they'll put up only Victoria Secret popups.


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## TeeSee

Philly Bill said:


> You know.. who cares really? You're not skipping through the commericals because you are dead set against what is being advertised... you're skipping through the commercials so you can get to the 're'start of the show as quickly as possible.


That's what I've been thinking when reading complaints about this feature. As long as you're able to skip (or FF) through them you're just zapping a different kind of ad. But we ARE able to skip through them, right? So what's the fuss?

Back to topic: This may be a naive question (obviously I'm not a programmer) but if 6.1 didn't have this bug then why does 6.2? Both are basically the same software, aren't they?


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## Hodaka

TeeSee said:


> Back to topic: This may be a naive question (obviously I'm not a programmer) but if 6.1 didn't have this bug then why does 6.2? Both are basically the same software, aren't they?


I'd say that it's because the R10 comes with it preinstalled. Like any other "computer", if it comes preinstalled and custom fit to the system, it usually works. However, with upgrading myriad other types suddenly, they're probably running into situations they didn't expect..


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## TeeSee

Hodaka said:


> I'd say that it's because the R10 comes with it preinstalled.


I thought software is downloaded upon installation. Is the R10 different than the other DVRs in this way?


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## josh4040

I am in the L.A. area, and have not received 6.2 for one of my units, my secondary tivo in the bedroom got the update over a week ago. I called tech support today about why I have not received the update. I was hoping to hear about the delay which I read about in this thread several days ago. Instead they said there was no delay, and that I should have received the update when the other receiver got it. I told the woman that I had tried dialing in three times a day and restarting my receiver several times. She proceeds to tell me that my unit might have a problem and I should do a CLEAR AND DELETE ALL. If this doesn't work then they will send me a replacement unit. CLEAR AND DELETE ALL takes four friggin hours. Should I listen to the tech lady? Or just keep waiting patiently?


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## rminsk

TeeSee said:


> I thought software is downloaded upon installation. Is the R10 different than the other DVRs in this way?


Right now the only software that will run on the R10 is 6.1, so it better come preinstalled.


----------



## rminsk

josh4040 said:


> I am in the L.A. area, and have not received 6.2 for one of my units, my secondary tivo in the bedroom got the update over a week ago. I called tech support today about why I have not received the update. I was hoping to hear about the delay which I read about in this thread several days ago. Instead they said there was no delay, and that I should have received the update when the other receiver got it. I told the woman that I had tried dialing in three times a day and restarting my receiver several times. She proceeds to tell me that my unit might have a problem and I should do a CLEAR AND DELETE ALL. If this doesn't work then they will send me a replacement unit. CLEAR AND DELETE ALL takes four friggin hours. Should I listen to the tech lady? Or just keep waiting patiently?


CSR do not understand the rollout process. Not all machines in the LA area where slated for the test. I think the test was expanded to 10,000 units. Machines are choosen at random based on there serial numbers. The rollout has beeen paused while the new bug is being fixed and then they will rollout the new versions. Even when the rollout starts for the whole country they roll it out over several months. Again, machines are choosen randomly each night and on your next call in it will activate.


----------



## SGR215

josh4040 said:


> I am in the L.A. area, and have not received 6.2 for one of my units, my secondary tivo in the bedroom got the update over a week ago. I called tech support today about why I have not received the update. I was hoping to hear about the delay which I read about in this thread several days ago. Instead they said there was no delay, and that I should have received the update when the other receiver got it. I told the woman that I had tried dialing in three times a day and restarting my receiver several times. She proceeds to tell me that my unit might have a problem and I should do a CLEAR AND DELETE ALL. If this doesn't work then they will send me a replacement unit. CLEAR AND DELETE ALL takes four friggin hours. Should I listen to the tech lady? Or just keep waiting patiently?


IMHO i'd say the tech was an idiot and you need to just be patient for it to arrive.


----------



## dtremain

josh4040 said:


> I am in the L.A. area, and have not received 6.2 for one of my units, my secondary tivo in the bedroom got the update over a week ago. I called tech support today about why I have not received the update. I was hoping to hear about the delay which I read about in this thread several days ago. Instead they said there was no delay, and that I should have received the update when the other receiver got it. I told the woman that I had tried dialing in three times a day and restarting my receiver several times. She proceeds to tell me that my unit might have a problem and I should do a CLEAR AND DELETE ALL. If this doesn't work then they will send me a replacement unit. CLEAR AND DELETE ALL takes four friggin hours. Should I listen to the tech lady? Or just keep waiting patiently?


I agree with the above. Just wait. The CSR had no idea what she was talking about.


----------



## tivoboi

rminsk said:


> The rollout has beeen paused while the new bug is being fixed and then they will rollout the new versions.


DirecTV has not indicated that the rollout has been paused, so any claim to the contrary is pure speculation. The fact that people have continued to receive the update after the supposed "pause date" leads me to believe that the claim is bogus.


----------



## rminsk

tivoboi said:


> DirecTV has not indicated that the rollout has been paused, so any claim to the contrary is pure speculation. The fact that people have continued to receive the update after the supposed "pause date" leads me to believe that the claim is bogus.


Besides announcing the 6.2 release when has DirecTV indicated anything about any release? The information about the rollout being paused has come from several reliable sources.

Once a machine is on the list to receive 6.2 they can not go back. 6.2 changes the database format. No new machines will be added to the 6.2 list. The people that are still just getting it were on the list and have just made a phone call. Remember phone calls only happen about every 8 days.


----------



## wmcbrine

Philly Bill said:


> You're not skipping through the commericals because you are dead set against what is being advertised... you're skipping through the commercials so you can get to the 're'start of the show as quickly as possible.


Can't it be both?


----------



## tivoboi

rminsk said:


> The information about the rollout being paused has come from several reliable sources.


AFAIK, the information about a "pause" comes from one source.



> Once a machine is on the list to receive 6.2 they can not go back. 6.2 changes the database format.


No, once a machine is _upgraded_ to 6.2, it cannot be reverted. The upgrade process is controlled by "the list," and since the machines need to dial in to check to see if they are on "the list," (ie: the call in to DirecTV/TiVo informs the unit to begin the upgrade process), the list can be changed or pulled by DirecTV at any time.

Indeed, this is exactly what would happen if there was a major problem with the update: DirecTV would have immediately pulled "the list" and no machines dialing in after that point would be given the instructions to start the upgrade process.

The fact that people have reported that their machines are still receiving updates after the supposed "pause date" indicate to me that no such thing has happened.

I'm sorry, but until a more respectable source of information (ie: someone like Dan Collins at DBS Forums or TivoPony) confirms that the software rollout has been delayed, I have to call bullpucks.


----------



## rminsk

tivoboi said:


> AFAIK, the information about a "pause" comes from one source.


I have other sources than the one source.



> No, once a machine is _upgraded_ to 6.2, it cannot be reverted. The upgrade process is controlled by "the list," and since the machines need to dial in to check to see if they are on "the list," (ie: the call in to DirecTV/TiVo informs the unit to begin the upgrade process), the list can be changed or pulled by DirecTV at any time.


DirecTV does not track the TiVo call they only track the DirecTV call so once the machine is on the list they can not revert from what I understand.



> The fact that people have reported that their machines are still receiving updates after the supposed "pause date" indicate to me that no such thing has happened.


Have eight days elapsed since the pause?



> I'm sorry, but until a more respectable source of information (ie: someone like Dan Collins at DBS Forums or TivoPony) confirms that the software rollout has been delayed, I have to call bullpucks.


You have every right to believe what you want but I beleive it is paused.


----------



## tivoboi

rminsk said:


> I have other sources than the one source.


Links?



> DirecTV does not track the TiVo call they only track the DirecTV call so once the machine is on the list they can not revert from what I understand.


There is simply no way a Fortune 500 company would ever design a process that could impact their service levels that they didn't have complete control over.

Think about it. If Stan Van Gundy (coach of the Miami Heat) tells everybody that Shaquille O'Neal is going to start the next game, and between now and then Shaq gets a stomach flu, there's no reason why Van Gundy can't change his decision come game time.

DirecTV can most certainly prevent a receiver from upgrading come "game time" (ie: the day the receiver calls in, whether it's today or eight days from today).

The upgrade process is controlled by the call, and let's remember what that call is -- a check-in with a DirecTV server. The _server_ is going to trigger the update, and if DirecTV needs to shut something down because of a serious problem (ie: something that's going to trigger lots of support calls and thereby drive up costs), these servers won't be instructing _any_ DirecTV receivers to install new software -- no matter what date they call in.

So, believe what you want to believe, but as long as we keep reading posts that people are receiving 6.2 software updates, it's kind of hard to argue that they're not.


----------



## CrazyFred

1) No conspiracy, this is a true glitch in the software and has nothing to do with ad software

2) The glitch also exists with the R-10's in version 6.1 but was not discovered until this L.A. test with the 6.2 download

3) The glitch is minor relatively speaking and is not an issue with channels not appearing. It is more a situation of certain channels holding over video from a previous channel. It only occurs on very select channels that are not normally relegated to everyday video.

4) TIVO is working to fix this problem in both the R-10's and the 6.2 software download. They delay could take awhile, depending on TIVO's determination of how long it will take to rectify the situation. Directv may also decide to move forward and correct the problem later as the glitch is minor relatively speaking (relative depends on who you talk to)

5) The deal that TIVO and Directv extended yesterday has nothing to do with inserting ads into fast forward features and the like. It is part of the two companies existing agreement as it relates to Showcases.

6) Be patient. TIVO and Directv are doing this the right way.


----------



## ddobson

CrazyFred
6) Be patient. TIVO and Directv are doing this the right way.[/QUOTE said:


> I completely agree. I'm as aggravated as anyone. But hey my Tivo works fine, I just want to add a BIG hard drive and would like to add LBA48 support. Guess I could always add it on my own but I'd rather just let them do it and I can wait a little while.
> 
> Things go wrong with software rollouts and there's no use giving people defective software when you don't have to...


----------



## VoR

btwyx said:


> Mine works.


  and what does it do???


----------



## btwyx

VoR said:


> and what does it do???


It changes the aspect ratio on my HR10-250.


----------



## iwanTIVO

Tivoboi sounds like Thomas, who had to put his hands in Christ's wounds before he would believe. Come on, be thankful that we have someone (rminsk) who has some inside info.


----------



## rminsk

tivoboi said:


> Links?


My contacts are personal contacts within DirecTV.



> There is simply no way a Fortune 500 company would ever design a process that could impact their service levels that they didn't have complete control over.


This is exactly why they rollout the software over a period of months. If they find a problem they can stop the rollout.

I'm not sure if you know how the rollout process works. There is a database that contains which version of the software each TiVo (by service number) is suppose to be running. During the rollout they choose machines randomly and update the version of the software the machine is suppose to be running in the database. In the test rollout they were doing they would only choose machines randomly in the southern California area. When your machine dails in it ask the server what version am I suppose to be running. If it is running a different version it will first look at local disk cache of the satellite caches to see if it can install it from the local disk. If it is not on the local disk it will download the software and install it. Once a machine software version has been updated in the database it would be very bad to go back to an older version. So once they up the version number of the software for a machine they do not revert an older version. The DirecTiVo usually calls in about every 8 days (maybe even more if you do not have connected to a phone line) so there will be machines that have had there software version updated that have not activated the software for some time.

If there is a critical problem the machines that requires an emergency fix they could just up the software version in the database for those machines in the database that are suppose to have the bad version. Again they will do this over a few day/weeks/months. Since 6.2 is currently being tested and the bug is not critical to the baisc operation (unlike 3.1.1d) they are just pausing the release and not quickly replacing it.


----------



## aristoBrat

rminsk said:


> Once a machine software version has been updated in the database it would be very bad to go back to an older version.


I think he was responding to your post where you said "Once a machine is on the list to receive 6.2 they can not go back."

I don't think he's arguing the point that once a machine has been upgraded that it can't roll back.

I think what he's saying is that even if a machine's been "put on the list", as long as they haven't run the upgrade, DirecTV can "remove them from the list" and that machine won't upgrade.


----------



## aristoBrat

ChristianZane said:


> Wrong. Real improvement is the speed increase, I see difference of about 500% with some functions.


Amen.

I ended up putting it on all of our DTiVos, replacing 4.0.1b. Upgrade didn't require taking the drive out of the TiVo. I lose MVR and HMO but can still TyTools recordings to my PC.

The speed increase (especially when working with a box that has 30+ Season Passes) was too in-flipping-credible to pass up. When I press SELECT SELECT, the Now Playing Guide pops up instantly, and it can keep up with me paging down through the six screens of shows I have. Even deleting a program is quicker.

Whatever they did to the "plumbing" in 6.2 is significant, and after having used it, I can see why they might have chosen to skip 4.0 in order to pull this off first.

Hopefully their plan was to fix the "foundation" first (which 6.2 appears to have done) and then add MRV and HMO features next.


----------



## rminsk

aristoBrat said:


> I think he was responding to your post where you said "Once a machine is on the list to receive 6.2 they can not go back."
> 
> I don't think he's arguing the point that once a machine has been upgraded that it can't roll back.
> 
> I think what he's saying is that even if a machine's been "put on the list", as long as they haven't run the upgrade, DirecTV can "remove them from the list" and that machine won't upgrade.


The problem is that they really do not know the real state of the machine until it calls in. They have an idea of what version it is running based on the last phone call but they can not be sure until the current phone call.


----------



## bpayne

I have been watching all the recent 6.2 threads with something resembling amusement over the past weeks. I've finally decided to register here instead of having people constantly checking my posts at Hometheaterspot and Dbstalk, needlessly driving up their bandwidth.

Tivoboi, you display a healthy amount of skepticism that I respect. I think it's a little unfair to call you a 'doubting Thomas'. However I would like to point out a couple of minor flaws in your reasoning that there is no delay- granted, I have no vested interest or personal stake in proving you wrong and you are free to believe whatever you want to believe.



> "There is simply no way a Fortune 500 company would ever design a process that could impact their service levels that they didn't have complete control over.


 This is absolutely a flawed premise. While logic would suggest that poor processes would dictate the financial success, a lackthereof, of any company- Fortune 500 or no, it simply ignores the fact that a company such as DirecTV is at the mercy of so many other factors that help or hinder service levels that one small software update affecting an almost insignificant number of subscribers would have some sort of quantifiable affect to warrant pulling the 6.2 beta rollout. Using this as a blanket statement is one thing. Using this as a basis to say that a software update has not been delayed is stretching it a bit. Last I checked, Dish Network has put out a lot of software updates for their PVRs. Not all of them have been met with stellar results for their users. The 3.1d update is also a good example of why you shouldn't tie a company's financial success to their ability to make correct tactical decisions in one small area of their end user population. While it would seem like a good observation to make, I will forego making any sort of comparison to the 6.2 beta and Microsoft's 'critical update' methodology. The economies of scale are simply not the same.



> "The fact that people have reported that their machines are still receiving updates after the supposed "pause date" indicate to me that no such thing has happened."


 This one is a little more subjective and therefore I cannot simply say, "You're wrong. I'm right, so boo-yah!". All I can simply say is, is that boxes that were scheduled to 'opt-in' (all that implies that it's voluntary, when it clearly is not) under the beta- all of which are in the LA DMA- and haven't done so yet, will continue to do so. My original announcement that the rollout was paused was only regarding the 6.2 rollout to the rest of the subscriber base outside the beta area, not the beta area itself. Perhaps that was unclear, perhaps that was perfectly understood. Whatever. I probably shouldn't have said anything in the first place. Instead of the discussion in this thread, everyone would still be posting in the "6.2 outside L.A. watch"-thread. Now THAT was a productive discussion.


----------



## pbartman

Bpayne please don't withhold any info. It's hard enough to get any tidbit of info from DirectTv. I like to know what's going on even if I don't like the information.

I want the update as much as everyone else and not knowing what's going on and keeping us in the dark makes people guess. Most of the time the info you see on this board about updates are pure seculation. At least yours was inside information and verry appreciated.


----------



## aristoBrat

rminsk said:


> The problem is that they really do not know the real state of the machine until it calls in. They have an idea of what version it is running based on the last phone call but they can not be sure until the current phone call.


I'm not sure I understand why the "real state of the machine" has anything to do with pausing the rollout.

Lets say DTV creates a list of 10,000 DTiVos in LA that it wants to upgrade to 6.2.

As these machines call in over an 8 day period, they're either sent the command to upgrade (if they have the entire updated staged), or they download the remaining part of the upgrade and are then sent the command to upgrade.

On day #4, DTV realizes it has a problem and pauses the rollout by not sending the upgrade command to machines as they call in. These machines don't upgrade, even though they're on the list.


----------



## skinnyjm

iwanTIVO said:


> Tivoboi sounds like Thomas, who had to put his hands in Christ's wounds before he would believe. Come on, be thankful that we have someone (rminsk) who has some inside info.


That's a *HEAVY DUTY* response*.* 



CrazyFred said:


> ...3) The glitch is minor relatively speaking and is not an issue with channels not appearing. It is more a situation of certain channels holding over video from a previous channel. It only occurs on very select channels that are not normally relegated to everyday video...


This is important to me, since I'm one of the few that think the best thing about DirecTiVo,
is the ability to manipulate "Live TV" * on 2 different tuners!!!
*= 30 minutes at a time.


----------



## Cartrivision

aristoBrat said:


> I'm not sure I understand why the "real state of the machine" has anything to do with pausing the rollout.


Exactly. If DirecTV wanted to stop all updates to 6.2, it would simply stop giving "update" commands during the call-in, regardless of what "state" the calling machine was in. The reports of 6.2 updates in the last few days doesn't prove that there is no 6.2 rollout pause... maybe they have only paused it for certain models... but if people are still getting update commands during their call-in, it certainly strongly suggests that there is no across the board pause on the 6.2 rollout. It makes absolutely no sense to say that DTV would not be able to stop a software rollout instantly if it wanted to, regardless if some receivers were already scheduled to get update commands on their next call-in. They control what happens during the call-in.


----------



## TeeSee

aristoBrat said:


> On day #4, DTV realizes it has a problem and pauses the rollout by not sending the upgrade command to machines as they call in. These machines don't upgrade, even though they're on the list.


I once bought a car that I chose to be painted silver. Before it was scheduled to be built I changed my mind and called the dealership and asked for it to be painted black. But they said it simply couldn't be done. Once the order was through that was it, even though there were weeks before it was scheduled to be built at the plant. So they ended up building two cars. One silver, one black. I bought the black one and the silver one was added to the dealership's on site inventory. Sometimes it's amazing how difficult the seemingly easy things are. Especially with computers. You would think all they had to do was to send the command to cancel the silver car.


----------



## tivoboi

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=234335


----------



## tivoboi

iwanTIVO said:


> Tivoboi sounds like Thomas, who had to put his hands in Christ's wounds before he would believe. Come on, be thankful that we have someone (rminsk) who has some inside info.


What you have is somebody who _claims_ to have inside information while, all around you, evidence points to something otherwise.

So, iwanTIVO, if you continue to believe that 6.2 is paused, "go and tell my brothers and go to Galilee; there they will see me."


----------



## tivoboi

rminsk said:


> My contacts are personal contacts within DirecTV.
> 
> This is exactly why they rollout the software over a period of months. If they find a problem they can stop the rollout.


That's exactly my point. They have the ability to stop the rollout at any point in time. So, if the rollout was stopped, we wouldn't be seeing threads like this as early as this morning:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=234335



> I'm not sure if you know how the rollout process works.


I'm an executive that's responsible for producing software for a Fortune 500 company. I have a good understanding of how software upgrades transpire.



> There is a database that contains which version of the software each TiVo (by service number) is suppose to be running. During the rollout they choose machines randomly and update the version of the software the machine is suppose to be running in the database. In the test rollout they were doing they would only choose machines randomly in the southern California area.


No argument here.



> When your machine dails in it ask the server what version am I suppose to be running.


Exactly. And if I am DirecTV with a bad software upgrade on my hands, that server would be saying, "you know what, we were going to have you running version 6.2, but since there's some problems, why don't you stick with what you have for right now. Call me in about a week and maybe I'll tell you something different."



> If it is running a different version it will first look at local disk cache of the satellite caches to see if it can install it from the local disk. If it is not on the local disk it will download the software and install it. Once a machine software version has been updated in the database it would be very bad to go back to an older version.


...but only if the server has told the machine that it should be running a different version. Which is where you and I disagree. You seem to think that once DirecTV decides somebody should be running 6.2, there is no way that they can change that decision. I say that that is utter nonsense. *DirecTV can decide -- at the moment your machine dials in -- what software version you should be using.* Not what software it thought you should have been using a week ago.

Believe me, if there was a serious issue that would impact the cost of DirecTV's service model (in the call center industry, we all this the "Service Level"), that issue would be shut down cold.



> So once they up the version number of the software for a machine they do not revert an older version.


Doubtful. If I know version 6.2 is going to cause me a support headache, I'm going to update my distribution mechanism so nobody gets version 6.2 until I'm ready for them to receive it.



> The DirecTiVo usually calls in about every 8 days (maybe even more if you do not have connected to a phone line) so there will be machines that have had there software version updated that have not activated the software for some time.


Yes, but the machines have no idea what software version they are supposed to be using. _The DirecTV server tells the receiver which software version it's supposed to be using when the receiver dials in._ If there was indeed a "pause" to the rollout, then DirecTV wouldn't be upgrading _any_ machines. Why would you risk upsetting customers when you don't have to?

At any rate, it's clear that the "rollout has been paused" is clearly debunked. Here we are, days later, and people are still receiving the version 6.2 software.


----------



## Josh

heh... this is fun to watch! Certainly more fun than forcing endless daily calls on my R10!
i can't quite figure out why this "it's paused", "no it's not" debate is getting so heated, but at least it's keeping the rest of us amused with the endless pseudo-logic and strained analogies.

keep it up guys, we've got nothing better to do since the software is delayed. or is it?


----------



## jimpilot

I notice no one outside of SoCal has received the update even though it was (according to this forum) to start going out on 7 April. I guess that gives creditability to the pause theory. 

Of course those guys who really killed Kennedy may have stolen it.


----------



## TeeSee

Josh said:


> heh... this is fun to watch!


Isn't it? Every time someone demands their opinion is a fact I can't help but pull up a chair and watch them implode because they aren't getting the "You're right, I'm wrong" they apparantly need.

Tivoboi, did you know that the stars in the sky aren't really there anymore? They died millions of years ago yet we still "download" the light from them every night.


----------



## aristoBrat

TeeSee said:


> I once bought a car that I chose to be painted silver. Before it was scheduled to be built I changed my mind and called the dealership and asked for it to be painted black. But they said it simply couldn't be done. Once the order was through that was it, even though there were weeks before it was scheduled to be built at the plant. So they ended up building two cars. One silver, one black. I bought the black one and the silver one was added to the dealership's on site inventory. Sometimes it's amazing how difficult the seemingly easy things are. Especially with computers. You would think all they had to do was to send the command to cancel the silver car.


If you want a car analogy that fits this thread, try this:

GMC sends a recall notice to 100,000 cars telling them to make an appointment with their local dealer to have a defective part replaced.

10 days into the recall, GMC finds out that the part they're replacing the defective part is _also_ defective, so the pause the recall, telling dealers to stop.

If you're on the list of cars in the recall and your appt was made for the 11th day or later, your dealer calls and cancels your appt.

Even though your car was on the list, it wasn't touched after the recall was pused.


----------



## jimpilot

Guys
Everyone is offering their opinion, I don't think anyone knows. And you know what they say, Opinions are like rear ends, everyone has one and they all stink.

Until someone reports a download outside the SoCal area I won't have a chance of getting it, so rather it is paused or not, I have to wait.


----------



## CrazyFred

jimpilot said:


> I notice no one outside of SoCal has received the update even though it was (according to this forum) to start going out on 7 April. I guess that gives creditability to the pause theory.
> 
> Of course those guys who really killed Kennedy may have stolen it.


No one outside of So. Cal has 6.2 unless they are either

1) Lying

2) Beta testing for TiVo or Directv

3) Hacked it

6.2 will go out to the rest of the nation when Directv and TiVo feel it is ready to go to those users.


----------



## aristoBrat

I went with option #3 and have a house full of happy campers.


----------



## TeeSee

aristoBrat said:


> If you want a car analogy that fits this thread, try this:
> 
> GMC sends a recall notice to 100,000 cars telling them to make an appointment with their local dealer to have a defective part replaced.
> 
> 10 days into the recall, GMC finds out that the part they're replacing the defective part is _also_ defective, so the pause the recall, telling dealers to stop.
> 
> If you're on the list of cars in the recall and your appt was made for the 11th day or later, your dealer calls and cancels your appt.
> 
> Even though your car was on the list, it wasn't touched after the recall was pused.


I understand what you're saying. But all I'm saying is that legitimate opinions and analogies don't feed the bulldog (I'm actually ashamed I said that but hey, it works ). The pause of the rollout isn't disproved by saying it doesn't make sense to you that others' are still receiving 6.2. There is a valid theory as to why they're still getting it. And that theory doesn't prove that the rollout IS paused either. We just don't know and no one here is the final word on what really is the truth, although some insist on coming across that way. I've always found this "I'm right because it's my opinion" style of debate to be silly and childish. I continue to be amazed at how uncommon it is for people to simply agree to disagree.


----------



## Pauli

jimpilot said:


> Guys
> Everyone is offering their opinion, I don't think anyone knows. And you know what they say, Opinions are like rear ends, everyone has one and they all stink.
> 
> Until someone reports a download outside the SoCal area I won't have a chance of getting it, so rather it is paused or not, I have to wait.


Well, that's the thing. *rminsk* _claims_ to have some inside information and others here (i.e. tivoboi) are disputing his claims because some of us have received the upgrade after the supposed announcement. I, for one, agree with tivoboi -- this is software, if there was a pause in the rollout, just because there is a machine "in the list", doesn't mean that it MUST be upgraded. The call in could be simply changed to "do not update to 6.2".

It is possible that both sides are correct -- that there _is_ a pause, but not a complete pause. We are definitely missing some information here, that much is for sure.


----------



## TheMaxx

Why are people not simply creating images of their 6.2 and distributing it to those that really want it? It looks like there is a large demand based on the posts here, but no one seems to be asking for images.


----------



## TeeSee

TheMaxx said:


> Why are people not simply creating images of their 6.2 and distributing it to those that really want it? It looks like there is a large demand based on the posts here, but no one seems to be asking for images.


Granted, it's often ignored but there is a disclaimer for this forum:


> (Note: No DSS Hacking talk will be allowed!)


I've always understood this to apply to Tivo as well as DSS but maybe that's just me.


----------



## aristoBrat

TheMaxx said:


> Why are people not simply creating images of their 6.2 and distributing it to those that really want it? It looks like there is a large demand based on the posts here, but no one seems to be asking for images.


This site isn't usually the first one that most people goto when they're looking for images and/or slices, both of which are out there.


----------



## jimpilot

I know enough to know I'd mess it up if I tried, so I have to wait.


----------



## aristoBrat

TeeSee said:


> The pause of the rollout isn't disproved by saying it doesn't make sense to you that others' are still receiving 6.2. There is a valid theory as to why they're still getting it. And that theory doesn't prove that the rollout IS paused either. We just don't know and no one here is the final word on what really is the truth, although some insist on coming across that way.


Actually, the whole "pause" idea is of no interest to me. 

What intrigues me is the thought that "once a machine is on the list to receive 6.2 they can not go back". It's a professional curiosity.

Where I work, I'm on a team responsible for sending upgrades (point-of-sale software, new version of IE, pcAnywhere, etc) to our ~2,700 retail stores scattered all over the lower 48 states. From what I've read from the forums here over the years, we do our upgrades in a similiar manner to DTV/DTiVo: stage the upgrade over a wide area, then send the "do the upgrade" command to a smaller group of stores (almost always in a particular region), then eventually speed up the rollout by doing multiple regions at a time.

As well as our QA dept tests our upgrades before they hit the field, there's been a few times where we've had to "pause" an upgrade ASAP due to unforseen issues. Until the issue was fixed, no stores received the broken upgrade.

If "once a machine is on the list to receive 6.2 they can not go back" is true, I guess I was looking for a technical reason (or an insider answer) to why that is, as I after many years of working with a similar process, I can't think of one.

I'm sorry if you perceived my posts as me "trying to have the final answer".


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## rminsk

TheMaxx said:


> Why are people not simply creating images of their 6.2 and distributing it to those that really want it? It looks like there is a large demand based on the posts here, but no one seems to be asking for images.


If you have had your machine hooked up to the satellite about a month ago then you already have the image on your disk drive waiting to be activated...


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## rminsk

tivoboi said:


> I'm an executive that's responsible for producing software for a Fortune 500 company. I have a good understanding of how software upgrades transpire.


 and how does that make you an expert and how DirecTV and TiVo handle there software updates? I too am a professional in the software industry and have worked on projects that you have seen. You may understand how it works for your company but your distribution model may not apply. Do you automatically download and update software on your consumers device?


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## wmcbrine

TeeSee said:


> I've always understood this to apply to Tivo as well as DSS but maybe that's just me.


Your understanding is incorrect. "DSS hacking" refers very specifically to modifying access cards to get free service. But there's a whole section here just for Tivo hacking, the Tivo Underground. (Granted, the hacking talk is generally supposed to be confined to that section; and there are a host of other limitations on what's prohibited discussion, besides just "DSS hacking".)

As far as images for upgrading, that's a grey area at best. But they're offered for sale by some of the sponors of this forum.


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## TeeSee

aristoBrat said:


> I'm sorry if you perceived my posts as me "trying to have the final answer".


No no, I'm sorry for giving you the impression I was pointing a finger at you. Actually I was kind of going on a tangeant in regard to some comments made by other posters previously in this thread. That wasn't about you. I was just whining to you because I had your attention.


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## aristoBrat

TeeSee said:


> No no, I'm sorry for giving you the impression I was pointing a finger at you. Actually I was kind of going on a tangeant in regard to some comments made by other posters previously in this thread. That wasn't about you. I was just whining to you because I had your attention.


 :up:


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## jhimmel

I am not seeing many (any?) posts from people receiving the update over the past couple of days. If there is no delay, it sure is trickling out at an amazingly slow rate. Based on the lack of 6.2 activity seen here, I would say that the rollout is either delayed, or broken.

tivoboi, is that single post you pointed to your idea of a rollout? That was one individual in So. Ca.. Who the hell knows when or why he actually turned up with it. Where are the rest of the poeple to support your assertion of continueing distribution? I'd like to think it was still happening, but I'm just not seeing it. 

Jim H.


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## dtremain

jhimmel said:


> IIf there is no delay, it sure is trickling out at an amazingly slow rate. Based on the lack of 6.2 activity seen here, I would say that the rollout is either delayed, or broken.


I would say that what rminsk has been saying write along is clearly confirmed by what we are seeing here. My assumption is that it will happen in its good time. Go check your "now playing" list and enjoy some television!

When the rollout resumes, this place will light up like the 4th of July.


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## DVRaholic

Dan Collins just reported at his forum that he has heard NO News about 6.2 being delayed....

http://www.dbsforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42748


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## TiVaholic

TivoAholic said:


> Dan Collins just reported at his forum that he has heard NO News about 6.2 being delayed....
> 
> http://www.dbsforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42748


Completely OT: Hey! You stole my username!


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## DVRaholic

TiVaholic said:


> Completely OT: Hey! You stole my username!


Hey! you stole my photo


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## apollo8fan

Did DirecTV discover a bug? Perhaps, Perhaps not. Those posters that are floating around the channel problem seem to have too much specificity as to the area of the software that's flawed to be ficticious.

Did DirecTV pause the rollout? Perhaps, Perhaps not. The slow-going _could_ be DirecTV taking its time to see how the version functions, or maybe they're fixing a bug.

Did DirectTV stop the remaining beta machines from updating? Perhaps, perhaps not. If there is a pause, they could have their reasons for allowing the rest of the LA area to update (or not).

I've had my HDVR2 for something like 16 to 18 months. It came with 3.1.1b. You know, that version that had the audio problems and close caption problems. I've seen no meaningful updates in close to a year and a half other than to fix bugs, added channel logos, and allowance for the 72.5 satellite. I don't know how long the 3.1 tree has been out, but it seems it's been a long time just to add folders and some performance improvements.

Don't get me wrong, I really am looking forward to performance improvements and folders. But why the limited functionality when 4.0 has been out as long as it has and seems pretty stable in the SA units? People are _running_ 4.x on their DirecTiVos _today_. Why not just tweak that with DirecTV logos and run with it?

Is the $5 monthly DVR fee supposed to fund software upgrades or something else? If it's funding software upgrades (even if it's just a percentage of it), there are a lot of households contributing to this supposed fund with only folders and some performance improvements to show for it. This is where my real frustration lies.


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## paulfitz

Has anyone put an older image back onto their DTiVo and seen if the 6.2 slices are the same as the slices which were downloaded months ago?

One of my DTiVos did the daily call on Monday and is scheduled for another one tonight, the second DTiVO did the daily call on Sunday and is also scheduled for tonight, about 1/2 hour after the first. Curiouser and Curiouser...


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## minorthr

I didn't read this whole thread but neither of my 6.2 boxes are exhibiting this behavior.


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## tivoboi

TivoAholic said:


> Dan Collins just reported at his forum that he has heard NO News about 6.2 being delayed....
> 
> http://www.dbsforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42748


 :up:

Let's not forget that Dan's probably the best source of information on DirecTV & TiVo outside one of the two actual companies.

Oh, but I forgot, I'm a "Doubting Thomas..."


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## aristoBrat

paulfitz said:


> Has anyone put an older image back onto their DTiVo and seen if the 6.2 slices are the same as the slices which were downloaded months ago?


Hopefully they'd change the version number so that they could track who's got what.

My three boxes are at version 6.2 (nothing after that)...


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## dtremain

apollo8fan said:


> Is the $5 monthly DVR fee supposed to fund software upgrades or something else? If it's funding software upgrades (even if it's just a percentage of it), there are a lot of households contributing to this supposed fund with only folders and some performance improvements to show for it. This is where my real frustration lies.


No, the $5 monthly fee is a payment for the TiVo-based DVR service. If you are able to use the DVR services which Directv promises to you, you are receiving your $5 worth. Software upgrades are, principally, to fix bugs and maintain the service you already receive. Anything beyond that is a nice extra to keep us happy. People with SA's who have some features we do not, but lack other very major features that we do have, pay a much higher fee.


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## MichaelK

TivoAholic said:


> Dan Collins just reported at his forum that he has heard NO News about 6.2 being delayed....
> 
> http://www.dbsforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42748


could be just parsing words in a post what is is world but Dan said that he has heard nothing from his contacts since the rollout. He did not say he heard news but nothing about a delay. Its tough to prove a negative.

I just took his post to mean he hasnt been in contact with them since so he doeisnt know.

If he didnt specially ask them the question then hearing nothing means nothing.

Just becasue no one told Dan doesnt mean something isnt occuring. If a tree falls int eh forrest and no one is around to hear it does it make a sound....


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## DVRaholic

MichaelK said:


> If a tree falls int eh forrest and no one is around to hear it does it make a sound....


In this case NO


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## Doug G

D* confirms 6.2 delay:

http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/701908/an/0/page/0#701908

I wonder if this is the favorites list issue the beta people noted. Sure sounds like it to me...


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## dtremain

Doug G said:


> I wonder if this is the favorites list issue the beta people noted. Sure sounds like it to me...


No. The "favorites list issue" isn't an issue at all. From their first announcement of the new upgrade on the web page, Directv has stated that you will have to redo the "Channels You Watch" list (and, therefore, your favorites list), after the upgrade. This is not a bug, but an expected result. It is due to the aspect of the upgrade that makes the menu system faster.


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## rminsk

Doug G said:


> D* confirms 6.2 delay:
> 
> http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/701908/an/0/page/0#701908
> 
> I wonder if this is the favorites list issue the beta people noted. Sure sounds like it to me...


Message number 1 on this very thread http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=2749571&&#post2749571 and DirecTV has not made an offical announcement on the delay. The person on the other thread is not a spokes person for DirecTV.


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## jhimmel

Even "Doubting Thomas..." tivoboi has to admit at this point that 6.2 is most obviously delayed (although some people would never admit such a thing). There certainly is no "rollout" taking place at this time.

I hope they get it resolved and resume delivery in a timely manner.

Jim H.


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## bbristow

It would seem that if only the wrong channels popping up were the problem, that could be resolved in at least a week or two's time. Some "programmer" out there please sound off on this and tell us why these things take MONTHS to resolve, especially when they now know WHICH units are affected after the "beta."


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## bbristow

How'd you get the 6.2 upgrade in Virginia Beach? I thought it was only in California. And now that the plug has been pulled......?


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## rminsk

bbristow said:


> It would seem that if only the wrong channels popping up were the problem, that could be resolved in at least a week or two's time. Some "programmer" out there please sound off on this and tell us why these things take MONTHS to resolve, especially when they now know WHICH units are affected after the "beta."


First, it has not been months. Second, even a simple change requires proper regression testing. Third, we do not know how hard the bug is to track down. Fourth, all units are effected including the R10. Fifth, we do not know if there may be other problems...


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## rminsk

bbristow said:


> How'd you get the 6.2 upgrade in Virginia Beach? I thought it was only in California. And now that the plug has been pulled......?


The software is sitting on the hard drive waiting to be activated. Some people have hacked there units to activate it.


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## dtivofan23

<


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## bpayne

> How'd you get the 6.2 upgrade in Virginia Beach? I thought it was only in California. And now that the plug has been pulled......?


 Since the 6.2 update is already on everyone's hard drives- but not activated yet, there are ways to 'unpack' the slices to 'force' an update. I won't be any more specific then that.



> It would seem that if only the wrong channels popping up were the problem, that could be resolved in at least a week or two's time. Some "programmer" out there please sound off on this and tell us why these things take MONTHS to resolve, especially when they now know WHICH units are affected after the "beta."


 In all my posts I've never once mentioned- nor have heard of any being mentioned to me, a timetable on how long it would take to get the update fixed. The 3.1d update took only a few days to isolate and patch w/3.1e. Of course, more boxes were affected- and in a much more serious fashion, but the point remains the same. Isolating and fixing software problems that are affecting a small number of users is not exactly the easiest thing to fix.


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## CrazyFred

tivoboi said:


> :up:
> 
> Let's not forget that Dan's probably the best source of information on DirecTV & TiVo outside one of the two actual companies.
> 
> Oh, but I forgot, I'm a "Doubting Thomas..."


Dan needs a lot better sources.

6.2 HAS been delayed but it will restart in very early May. Most of the rest of the country should start to see it in the first week of May are my sources at Directv. Take it to the bank.


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## rvfrueh

bbristow said:


> It would seem that if only the wrong channels popping up were the problem, that could be resolved in at least a week or two's time. Some "programmer" out there please sound off on this and tell us why these things take MONTHS to resolve, especially when they now know WHICH units are affected after the "beta."


Not necessarily as easy as you think. Yes, they know which beta units failed AND reported it, but what if there's no obvious commonality among the boxen? (BTW, did all of these Beta testers know they were Beta, and know that any glitch needs to be reported along with all the details necessary to reproduce it?) Then you have an intermittent, which is a real pain to track down, so you start looking through the code to see if there's a place where you *might* get to a situation that leads to this problem, which isn't easy. If it was, it'd have been caught in design review, code review, or unit and regression testing.

Joy.


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## bbristow

I don't know where people get the idea that the 6.2 download is already on their machines, waiting to be acivated by a phone call. In the three years that I have had my DirecTivo, EVERY upgrade has come in FROM the phone call, usually taking about 45 minutes each time. I know, because I was aware of the upgrades that were out and forced phone calls until I actually got it, so waited as it downloaded, then restarted the machine to install it. If upgrades really DO come from "slices," wonder why I was singled out to be the only one to have to get it through the phone line?


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## btwyx

My last couple of updates have come with a 3 minute phone call, so I'm convinced they can send them down the satellite.


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## rminsk

bbristow said:


> I don't know where people get the idea that the 6.2 download is already on their machines, waiting to be acivated by a phone call.


With the 3.x stream they started deliviering over satellite. Before that it was always the phone. If your machine maisses the satellite download then it will still download over the phone.


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## MichaelK

bbristow said:


> I don't know where people get the idea that the 6.2 download is already on their machines, waiting to be acivated by a phone call. In the three years that I have had my DirecTivo, EVERY upgrade has come in FROM the phone call, usually taking about 45 minutes each time. I know, because I was aware of the upgrades that were out and forced phone calls until I actually got it, so waited as it downloaded, then restarted the machine to install it. If upgrades really DO come from "slices," wonder why I was singled out to be the only one to have to get it through the phone line?


its a fact my friend.

If you go to the boards where the real hackers hang you can learn all the specifics. Even how to install it from the slices which are most likely on YOUR hard drive.

Its pretty simple logic- how much does it cost in bandwidth to download 1.5 million boxes new software over the internet on the tivo dail call? How much does that cost them going over someother providers line (the tivo call goes over UUnet of some other ISP). Now instead of sending 50 megs of software (or whatever it is) to 1.5 million boxes over the net you send 50 megs over the satellite stream once a week at 3am over bandwidth you already own. Which way do you pick? Doing it over the satellite makes tons of sense.

they still use the phone calls to control it but rather then send down 50 megs on each call then send a couple k with instructions to unpack the main download from the satellite.

its the same logiv that they used to download guide data for the stand alone boxes daily over the net but now they try to send it in a late night broadcast on the discovery channel. The boxes still call in daily (or every other day) to get the keys to unlock the discover channel downloads but again thats a few k instead of a few hundred k or megs.

In both instances if any particular box disnt get the bullk download then the server gives the box the entire main download. ( for example if your box records tv shows on the nights when the slices are downloaded.)


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## Diana Collins

CrazyFred said:


> Dan needs a lot better sources.
> 
> 6.2 HAS been delayed but it will restart in very early May. Most of the rest of the country should start to see it in the first week of May are my sources at Directv. Take it to the bank.


No I don't actually...I simply had not been in touch with anyone when the question was posed on my board. I simply had no information to convey. Unlike some people, I don't feel a need to post non-information.

I've not asked about 6.2 because I don't consider it very important. I'd rather use my contacts to know what their HD plans are, and what they plan to do about the HD Tivos. I'll be able to share that information soon...right now I've been asked to keep it quiet.


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## Diana Collins

bbristow said:


> I don't know where people get the idea that the 6.2 download is already on their machines, waiting to be acivated by a phone call. In the three years that I have had my DirecTivo, EVERY upgrade has come in FROM the phone call, usually taking about 45 minutes each time. I know, because I was aware of the upgrades that were out and forced phone calls until I actually got it, so waited as it downloaded, then restarted the machine to install it. If upgrades really DO come from "slices," wonder why I was singled out to be the only one to have to get it through the phone line?


You are quite correct, for all releases prior to 3.1C. Since the download of 3.1B, updates have been delivered via satellite, and then the install launched by a phone call (which now takes only a few minutes).


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## aristoBrat

bbristow said:


> I don't know where people get the idea that the 6.2 download is already on their machines, waiting to be acivated by a phone call.


Ummm, they look?!?!


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## willardcpa

rminsk said:


> With the 3.x stream they started deliviering over satellite. Before that it was always the phone. If your machine maisses the satellite download then it will still download over the phone.


Just a bump for designdawg


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## tbeckner

willardcpa said:


> Just a bump for designdawg


It appears that 6.2 is now downloading via a phone call, instead of the satellite. I installed a new SD-DVR80 on Monday with 3.1.1 and forced a call this evening and it appears that it is downloading 6.2, because the download has been running for almost an hour.


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## willardcpa

IIRC I think that the satellite download may have taken a day or two to get all on there, it got put on in pieces, hence the "slice" method that many used to force its early installation. If it wasn't already all on there via satellite then the phone call would grab it. But on the other hand those satellite downloads may be used for the "wholesale distribution" of the software, so maybe they aren't pumping it out to everybody every night, and just handling it on an exception basis via phone.


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## DesignDawg

No, dude. I'm sorry, and I don't mean to be argumentative, but they took 6.2 OUT OF THE STREAM. It's a phone dlownload now. There's plenty of sources for that. Yes, 6.2 WAS a satellite download, but since everyone has it now, they took it out and made it a phone DL again.
If a new version of the software came out (which isn't going to happen), it would be a satellite DL again. But for now, 6.2 is over the phone only. I've downloaded it over the phone with no dish hooked up. --With my last receiver.

Ricky


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## willardcpa

DesignDawg said:


> ....I've downloaded it over the phone with no dish hooked up. --With my last receiver.
> 
> Ricky


OK, as I said above, maybe that's the case. But if you don't have a dish hooked up, kinda hard for you to determine if it could have come down via the satellite.


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## DesignDawg

willardcpa said:


> OK, as I said above, maybe that's the case. But if you don't have a dish hooked up, kinda hard for you to determine if it could have come down via the satellite.


No, I HAVE a dish hooked up. But my last receiver was brought to me at work (from a friend) and I hooked it up here, sans-dish, and it downloaded the 6.2 software for hours. It had not been turned on in years, and had been sitting in a closet. It most definitely downloaded 6.2 over the phone, which is what they are doing now. I was only posting to find out whether test calls erase partial downloads.

Ricky


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## tbeckner

DesignDawg said:


> No, I HAVE a dish hooked up. But my last receiver was brought to me at work (from a friend) and I hooked it up here, sans-dish, and it downloaded the 6.2 software for hours. It had not been turned on in years, and had been sitting in a closet. It most definitely downloaded 6.2 over the phone, which is what they are doing now. I was only posting to find out whether test calls erase partial downloads.
> 
> Ricky


Ricky,

You are RIGHT, 6.2 is now being downloaded via phone. I installed a new SD-DVR80 on Monday and I forced a call this evening (it took over an hour) and it downloaded 6.2 and 6.2 is being installed as I type this entry. I figured that they had switched the 6.2 download off the satellite some time ago, which is the reason I forced the call this evening.

Tim

Additional Edit:

I have verified that 6.2 downloaded this evening and installed via a phone call. And be pre-warned that the 6.2 upgrade resets your "Channels You Recieve" and "Favorite Channels".


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## Diana Collins

The 6.2 software has ALWAYS been available by phone. If your TiVo makes two calls in a row with version 3.1, then version 6.2 will download via phone.

The fact that you can download 6.2 via phone does not prove it is not also available via satellite. We'd need a few reports of people leaving their TiVos connected to the dish for a few days without getting a download.

PS: The receiver needs to be activated to download via satellite, but does NOT need to be activated to download via phone.


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## tbeckner

Dan Collins said:


> The 6.2 software has ALWAYS been available by phone. If your TiVo makes two calls in a row with version 3.1, then version 6.2 will download via phone.
> 
> The fact that you can download 6.2 via phone does not prove it is not also available via satellite. We'd need a few reports of people leaving their TiVos connected to the dish for a few days without getting a download.
> 
> PS: The receiver needs to be activated to download via satellite, but does NOT need to be activated to download via phone.


Interesting, sorry but I didn't want to wait a week for the second non-forced phone call to test this out, I forced a call this evening.

But from the time I activated it on Monday the SD-DVR80 had made two phone calls. I forced a call the first day and it automatically called in yesterday, Tuesday. And for some reason it didn't download the software on the second call (non-forced), which is why I forced the call this evning.

If he doesn't have a good phone connection, then maybe his best course of action should be to activate and wait, because a software install phone call might be easier to make over a VOIP connection.


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## Diana Collins

tbeckner said:


> Interesting, sorry but I didn't want to wait a week for the second non-forced phone call to test this out, I forced a call this evening...


Understandable. I replaced 4 DirecTiVos last fall and let 2 of them download on their own from the satellite, and forced two via phone. So, I know for a fact that 6.2 was available both ways in the Sept/Oct time frame. It's just a matter of your own agenda and timetable.


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## lonewoolf47

What is the difference between 6.1 and 6.2? My 704 has 6.2 and my R-10 has the 6.1. Forgive me if this is common knowledge found among other threads but I have not seen it. Also should I have 6.2 on my R-10?


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## JaserLet

6.1 is only for the R10. It's basiclly the same thing as 6.2. The latest version for the R10 is 6.1.


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## HummerGuy

Please help! How can I get the Folder option on my HD HR250 unit!!!


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## tbeckner

HummerGuy said:


> Please help! How can I get the Folder option on my HD HR250 unit!!!


It is "NOT AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME", because the HR10-250 requires a new software version which hasn't been released.


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## ttodd1

HummerGuy said:


> Please help! How can I get the Folder option on my HD HR250 unit!!!


You have been told numerous times - It is not available on your model - maybe in the future.......


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## Billy Bob Boy

ttodd1 said:


> You have been told numerous times - It is not available on your model - maybe in the future.......


Yes the future "Futurama"  mabye if you get frozen for 1000 years you will awaken and find it updated


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