# Connecting to TV with no AV Inputs



## TadPops (Jan 11, 2009)

After reading every post on your site for an answer, I had to register to ask my question. I am trying to hook up my DirectTV Tivo to my tv that has no AV inputs using an AB switch (so I can continue to receive local stations). I'm pretty sure that all my connections are correct, as I can see all the TiVo information pages and can work my way through the set-up questions. I had originally used an RF modulator, and had 92% signal strength, but when I got to the point of getting info from the satellite, it failed. And since that point I no longer am getting any signal from the satellite at all! I did get an error message saying not to use a "regular" RF modulator, and since mine was older, I did go to RS and get a new one that indicated it worked with satellite signals, and still nothing. I then searched and searched and found a site that gave me an alternate hookup - from the RF out to the AB switch. Again, I can read all the instructions and such, but still no signal. As I did absolutely nothing to the satellite coax cable, and it is working on the TV in my living room, I am completely stumped. I do not have a TiVo instruction book, as it is a hand-me-down (my sister upgraded hers to a DVR and then upgraded me from just a receiver). It is a Samsung SIR-S4080R, if that helps. I just can't understand why one minute I would have 92% signal strength and then nothing. Any help would be greatly appreciated!


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

Welcome to TivoCommunity!

I'm confused by your connection scheme. Your Samsung DirecTivo's RF output should connect to one input on the A/B Switch, while your off-air antenna connects to the other input. Then the A/B Switch output connects to your TV's antenna input, right?

This connection scheme should have nothing to do with your satellite cable. The SAT INPUT cable should connect directly to the SAT INPUT on the DirecTivo, not the A/B Switch. Verify that you've connected the SAT INPUT to the correct input, not the Tivo's RF output.

Also, for troubleshooting purposes, simplify things. Disconnect the A/B Switch and connect the DirecTivo's RF Output directly to the TV. See if you get a satellite signal on the DirecTivo. If not, then try connecting the DirecTivo where your "good" Receiver is located to verify that the DirecTivo's not defective. 

Let us know what you find.


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

I am not sure about the Samsung, but all of my SD DirecTiVo units over the years have Sat and TV RF inputs and the ability to switch between watching satellite (unit turned on) and non-satellite (unit turned off or to standby, providing pass through of the TV RF signal).

You could possibly avoid the need for the AB switch using this configuration.


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## rbtravis (Aug 9, 2005)

Tad
Why are you using the A/B switch? your Directv Tivo has a local Channel pass/thru. Connect the Local Channel cable to the TV input over the TiVo RG6 output connector. Watch Directv on your Tv's Channel 3 or 4 selected by switch on Back of Tivo. Watch local channels on their regular numbers.


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## TadPops (Jan 11, 2009)

Litzdog911 - 

Thanks for the response.

I have Round Dual LNB dish, old original DirecTV receiver in one room, DirecTiVo in other room. I have no problems with any channels on old receiver, but the TiVo is keeps telling me "No right side signal" although I now have signal strength on all the odd transponders (same as in the front room - I checked all my settings on that receiver to make sure I set up the TiVo the same. Still no strength.

And, yes, the satellite is directly into the AB switch, and I tested it directly to the TV - same thing. It is just very confusing that the TiVo can recognize that the dish has signal strength, but then cant find the satellite!

Am going to ask my neighbor for his ladder and check one more thing on the roof. Will update whether or not it works.

Budget H_T

It may be that your suggestion would work, except that I got upgraded without a remote, and have not found a way to do the runthrough directly from the antenna. Plus, my DTV converter box works off Channel 3, and the TiVo Channel 4 (stupid local stuff). I would love to not have the AB switch, but it seems I am stuck with it (and thank goodness RS still makes them - the customer service people in my Best Buy asked me "what's an AB switch?"


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

The AB switch is meant to switch Normal TV signals, such as the output of a DVD player and the TiVo. If I read your post correctly, you are connecting the satellite coax to the AB switch. This creates a problem in that if the switch is in the wrong position (ie: you're watching locals) then the TiVo loses its signal and can't record.

So your solution is as Budget said. Connect your DTV converter box RF output (ch3) to the RF input on the Samsung. Then the Samsung's RF output connects to the TV. I'd change the Samsung to output on ch3. Now to watch the converter box, put the Samsung into standby which allows the converter box output to pass thru to the TV (TV tuned to ch3). To watch the Samsung, you take it out of standby.

BTW, you can buy a universal remote.


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

TadPops said:


> ...It may be that your suggestion would work, except that I got upgraded without a remote, and have not found a way to do the runthrough directly from the antenna. Plus, my DTV converter box works off Channel 3, and the TiVo Channel 4 (stupid local stuff). I would love to not have the AB switch, but it seems I am stuck with it (and thank goodness RS still makes them - the customer service people in my Best Buy asked me "what's an AB switch?"


If I understand what you have said here, there are relatively easy solutions for everything you have mentioned. I am a bit confused about the lack of remote part.

The DirecTiVo RF (to TV) output can be switched between channels 3 and 4.

There are lots of experienced folks on this site willing to walk you through how to make your set up work, including troubleshooting your transponder reception issue. If you want to provide more details, I am sure you will get excellent help here.

Good luck.


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## TadPops (Jan 11, 2009)

The AB switch is connected correctly as it does go to the TV which is a TV/VCR combo. And, I tried switching the TiVo to Channel 3, with a direct line to Channel 3 on the TV, and all I get is Snow - there is absolutely no reception of local channels through the TiVo. For my area, the TiVo has to be on Channel 4, and then I still get no local channels. And the TV/VCR has to be on Channel 3 in order to work with the DTV converter.

I don't think the AB switch has anything to do with the TiVo not recognizing the dish, as the dish is hooked directly into the Antenna 1 connection on the TiVo. And it made no difference when I hooked the RF output directly to the TV - the TiVo still did not recognize the satellite and it still gave me the no right side error message. And, yes, I have to use the RF output as the TV/VCR combo has no AV in ports - only the one coax in. The AB switch only affects whether I am watching the TV/VCR or the TiVo.

And, yes, I know I can buy a universal remote, but my sister said she found the one that goes with the TiVo, so I just have to catch up with her at this point.


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## rbtravis (Aug 9, 2005)

Dish should be hooked to satellite 1 not antenna 1. antenna 1 is for the roof top antenna. not the dish. Try to make it work without the VCR first, as the VCR output could interfere with directv TiVo.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

I think rbtravis has pinpointed the problem. The coax from the dish connects to the Sat In 1 and Sat 2 In on the DirecTV TiVo. The antenna input is used for pass thru of either an antenna or in this case the digital convetor box. The antenna output goes to the TV. Putting the TiVo into standby allows the converter box signal to get to the TV. 

I don't understand the need for ch4.


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## TadPops (Jan 11, 2009)

My bad - it is into Satellite 1, not Antenna 1 - I misspoke.

Further, I cannot do the connection without the VCR as it is a TV/VCR combo - they are one piece of equipment. 

In the meantime I have replaced the coax going from the satellite to the house - I checked the line running to the back of the house (not working so far) to the front of the house (working fine) and lo and behold the front one quit working. I replaced the bad one going to the front and the front worked again. However, the back still doesn't work.

So then I dug out the multiswitch that came with the front receiver. Hooked it up and tested the front. Works fine. Tested the back, and discovered I was no longer getting "no right side" but "no satellite detected". So, just to make sure it wasn't the multi-switch, I reversed the front and back connections. Front works fine - no satellite detected in the back.

I am really perplexed - this is now 6 hours today on top of the 8 hours New Years weekend. It really shouldn't be this hard!

And the Channel 3-4 thing in my city is that there are stations that use both channels. The idea behind a 3-4 switch is to use the one that a local station doesn't, but since both are active here it just makes things that much more difficult.


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## TadPops (Jan 11, 2009)

As an update - I said the heck with it and continued set up and did a system test. Satellite still not required, but it downloaded a guide and says my card is okay and I have good signal strength. Now what?


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## TadPops (Jan 11, 2009)

My previous post should say "satellite not acquired" (not required - bad typing, sorry).

At first the guide was saying "to be announced", but now I am actually getting titles and such, but when selected, it just looks for the signal and nothing else happens. This brings me back to my original question - if the TiVo can't find the satellite, how is it getting the guide?


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## telcoman (Dec 27, 2007)

TadPops said:


> After reading every post on your site for an answer, I had to register to ask my question. I am trying to hook up my DirectTV Tivo to my tv that has no AV inputs using an AB switch (so I can continue to receive local stations). I'm pretty sure that all my connections are correct, as I can see all the TiVo information pages and can work my way through the set-up questions. I had originally used an RF modulator, and had 92% signal strength, but when I got to the point of getting info from the satellite, it failed. And since that point I no longer am getting any signal from the satellite at all! I did get an error message saying not to use a "regular" RF modulator, and since mine was older, I did go to RS and get a new one that indicated it worked with satellite signals, and still nothing. I then searched and searched and found a site that gave me an alternate hookup - from the RF out to the AB switch. Again, I can read all the instructions and such, but still no signal. As I did absolutely nothing to the satellite coax cable, and it is working on the TV in my living room, I am completely stumped. I do not have a TiVo instruction book, as it is a hand-me-down (my sister upgraded hers to a DVR and then upgraded me from just a receiver). It is a Samsung SIR-S4080R, if that helps. I just can't understand why one minute I would have 92% signal strength and then nothing. Any help would be greatly appreciated!


You need a "multiswitch"

A multiswitch will allow you to connect both LNB inputs from the direct TV dish as well as a cable or antenna input.

The multiswitch has multiple RF outputs (4 to 8) that will allow you to run RG 6 cables to multiple rooms that will connect to the RF input of your direct TV receiver in each room. Locate the multiswitch where the LNB inputs enter the house. The multiswitch is powered with a small transformer. The RF output of each direct tv receiver will connect to the TV.
When the direct tv receiver is powered on you will receive direct TV. When powered off you will receive either cable or antenna channels only. There is no need for an A/B switch. The multiswitch combines both signals so only a single RG 6 cable needs to be run to each room.

Telcoman


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Let's make sure we are all on the same page as to what you have satellite wise.
Round dish with two outputs, right?
A DirecTV TiVo and a regular DirecTV receiver.
This requires 3 connections in order to get the TiVo to use both receivers.
You mentioned getting out a multiswitch.
How did you connect it?
I'll assume it is a 2x4 switch which requires both input to be connected to the dish.

Now concerning the ch3 and ch4 thing. You could do as explained, but put both the TiVo and the Digital converter box on ch4. By the way, once the digital switchover occurs the interference from ch3 or ch4 shouldn't be a problem any longer.


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## TadPops (Jan 11, 2009)

To same page everybody:
1 Round 2 LNB DirectTV Satellite Dish
1 DirectTV receiver in my living room, which works perfectly no matter how I set it up (ie, I switched all the connections from it to the TiVo and it still worked fine)
1 DirectTV Samsung TiVo, which now has downloaded a DirectTV Guide, recognizes my card, and has a signal strength of 95%, but cannot find the satellite
I have added the Samsung MulitSwitch (3-4 [2 sat/1 ant]) to which on the incoming side I have both LNB leads from the satellite coming in on the two connections that say "Sat In", plus my antenna into the middle connection that says "Ant In", and on the out side on RX1 I have the cable to the TiVo and on RX2 I have the cable to the regular receiver. Note, the first time I set it up, RX1 and RX2 were reversed. Both ways the front receiver works just fine and I still can't find a satellite in the the back room.

For the record, I have tried to run just the antenna line into the RF in on the back of the TiVo, and tried on both Channel 3 and Channel 4 and I cannot get any antenna reception at all. However, it works fine through the AB Switch. I will check again in February after "the switch", but until then, it appears the AB switch is necessary in my location. Wish it wasn't - one less thing to deal with.

Hooking the TiVo directly to the TV did not work - I can program and do all that stuff, but the TiVo still does not recognize the satellite.

I have compared all the settings on the regular receiver to the TiVo and everything matches.

I'm stumped.


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## rbtravis (Aug 9, 2005)

Did you set up the rear room receiver as a one or two satellite cable receiver. Sounds like it was set up as a two coax receiver with only one cable attached. if this is the case go through guided setup again and set it up as a single cable system. Good Luck


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## TadPops (Jan 11, 2009)

I want to thank everyone for all your input, but unfortunately, unless all further suggestions are for something I can do inside, I am done until next Saturday. I have lost my daylight, so no more working outside/climbing on the roof until then, and only weather permitting (our 7-day forecast says rain on Saturday). And, just to make sure the multiswitch is working correctly, I tried ALL the outputs on both the front and back connections - they all work in the front (regular receiver) and none of them work in the back (TiVo). And to reiterate, when I was running one line directly from the dish to the TiVo, despite 95&#37; signal strength I kept getting the error "no right side", and could not go any further when I said the heck with it and tried. Once I went to the multiswitch, I started receiving the message that "no satellite acquired", kept the 95% signal strength, and was able to download the guide, even though I can't see anything ("searching for signal"). If the TiVo doesn't see the satellite, how can it download the guide? I'm confused.


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## TadPops (Jan 11, 2009)

Back room set up as a one-cable receiver. For kicks and grins while trying everything under the sun, I tried it as a 2 cable, but it didn't help, and I got the additional error message that nothing was connected to Sat 2 In.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

I suggest that you use your regular receiver as a test set. Move it to the back room and see if both connections from the multiswitch work there. Also do this with connections directly from the dish. You can use F/F barrel connectors to do this. 

You may have missed this point. But, to use the pass thru function on the TiVo you need to put the TiVo into STANDBY.


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## TadPops (Jan 11, 2009)

Isn't that what I did by taking the connections originally going to the back room and hooking them up to the front room? I didn't see any reason to physically take the receiver that works to the back room when it is so much less trouble to change the cables. All cables in all permeations work on the receiver, and none work on the TiVo to get it to recognize the dish.

And, yes, on the pass-through, I tried it with the TiVo on standby and still only get snow, whether on Channel 3 or Channel 4.

No one has still answered if the Tivo cannot "see" the dish, how can it download the guide and know that there is 95&#37; signal strength? All channels are there, I can click on a selection and get the information for the show, I just can't get the show. And, yet, when it was only receiving one side of the dish, couldn't find the guide or anything else.


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## TadPops (Jan 11, 2009)

I'm to the point of trying the "Auto select dish" even tho it says not to unless instructed to by either a DirectTV installer or customer service rep. Is there any reason not to at this point?


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

I have no idea what your sat problem is but I know what your antenna problem is on that Tivo. 

To clarify you have an multiswitch which you plug your OTA antenna into along with your 2 sat cables from the dish, correct?

Now at the Tivo you are just plugging in that cable to the Sat 1 in and that's it?
That explains why you're not getting any OTA antenna. What you need on that end is a diplexor which "splits" out the antenna from the sat signal. So your cable coming from the multiswitch will go to your back room and into the diplexor. Then you'll have one short cable from the sat out on the diplexor to your Sat 1 in on the Tivo and then another short cable from the Ant out on the diplexor to your antenna input on the Tivo.

This will then give you your OTA antenna signal when the Tivo goes into standby.


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## TadPops (Jan 11, 2009)

Signal splitters in place from the beginning. Have local channels through the digital converter on the AB switch. Not worried about local channels at all, because I can get them (just not through the TiVo). I want to know why the TiVo can tell me I have 95&#37; signal strength, can download a guide, but cannot see the dish, yet my other receiver functions perfectly with the same setup.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

The reason for using the receiver in the other room is to see if it might be a cabling problem.

You say you have 95&#37; signal, but what transponder was that?
The guide data is downloaded from one transponder (not sure which one). Please list all 32 strengths. Note thate TPs 4, 12, 18, 20, 26, and 28 are spot beams and may show 0 or low values if they aren't used for your area.

BTW, since the TiVo is in single tuner mode, you do have the sat line connected to Sat In 1, right?


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## TadPops (Jan 11, 2009)

What is the difference between taking the cable to the receiver and taking the receiver to the cable? It was much easier to unconnect the cables from each of the units and rehook them up than it was to unhook the boxes and carry them from room-to-room. Both sets of cables worked fine with the regular receiver; neither worked on the TiVo.

The "system check" stated I had 95&#37; signal. When I checked each and every one, it varied from 0 to 95%. After Cold Case is done (the VCR on the TV is currently recording it on Channel 3, precluding me from turning the unit on to look at the TiVo on Channel 4), I will go in and write down each and every one.

To confirm, the dish is hooked into Sat 1, and the system recognizes that the cable is there - just not the dish.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Are you saying that the cables are long enough to move from room to room?

Here's another thought. Make sure the center conductor sticks out long enough to make good contact inside the connector on the box. 

I'm reaching here as I don't have too many more ideas.

But it just might be time for you to upgrade.


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## TadPops (Jan 11, 2009)

No, I flipped the one from the back of the house over the roof to the front and vice-versa.

Center conductor?

Here are the stats from each receiver:

Regular receiver:
101 degree (A)
Azimuth 151 degrees
Elevation 52 degrees
Round

95 90 92 0 92 95 92 92
94 90 94 0 94 95 91 95
94 0 94 0 94 95 94 94
94 0 93 0 94 95 92 94

TiVO:
Satellite In 1 101degree(A)
Azimuth 160 degrees
Elevation 52 degrees

0 86 0 0 0 94 0 97
0 83 0 0 0 94 0 97
0 0 0 0 0 95 0 92
0 0 0 0 0 92 0 93

What is intersting about this is when the TiVo was saying "right side missing", I had signal strength on every other transponder, but could not see the guide, nor did the system see any signal strength. Now, it sees the guide and registers signal strength, but has many, many fewer transponders working. Also, why would it say a different azimuth from the front? But say the elevations were the same?

Hope this info helps us to figure this out. You have been very patient with me, and I appreciate it.


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## TadPops (Jan 11, 2009)

Got it on the center conductor - the wire in the middle of the coax, correct? 

And, this TiVo is an upgrade for me - from nothing! Or, I guess it will be an upgrade once it is working, that is.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

TadPops said:


> ...
> TiVO:
> Satellite In 1 101degree(A)
> Azimuth 160 degrees
> ...


Those are some very unusual signal readings for the Tivo. I wonder if you simply have a defective Tivo?


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## TadPops (Jan 11, 2009)

Unless something happened to it between my sister's house and mine, I can't think of anything that would be wrong with the TiVo. She was using it up until she got the DVR. Of course, with electronics, anything is possible, isn't it?


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## TadPops (Jan 11, 2009)

This, leads me back to my question - should I try the auto-detect feature to find my dish? The only reason I ask is because it says not to do so unless instructed to by an installer or a customer service rep.

This will probably be my last post until tomorrow night after work. I will check in the morning before I leave for work, but since I'm pretty sure everyone else has to sleep and work, I will understand if there are no more posts until tomorrow night. Again, thank you everyone who has given input.


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## seedcar (Aug 8, 2005)

TadPops said:


> Signal splitters in place from the beginning. Have local channels through the digital converter on the AB switch. Not worried about local channels at all, because I can get them (just not through the TiVo). I want to know why the TiVo can tell me I have 95% signal strength, can download a guide, but cannot see the dish, yet my other receiver functions perfectly with the same setup.


What type of signal splitters are you using and where are they installed? You cannot use a signal splitter to split the satellite cable. If you have a splitter installed you would receive only odd or even transponders, which appears to be your situation.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

TadPops said:


> ... Also, why would it say a different azimuth from the front? But say the elevations were the same?....


Are you sure that both receivers have the same zipcode entered? This would cause a difference in az/el values.

I agree that those readings are very weird. It seems you are missing all of the odd TPs along with all of the spot beams (4, 12, 18, 29, 26, & 28). What's really strange is that all spot beams are 0, some should have a value.

I'm beginning to think that the TiVo is bad.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Yea, Tivo may be bad.

But how about we do this:

Describe your *exact* cabling from the dish to the Tivo. And I mean everything including any barrel connectors, spliters/switches, length of cable, etc. And don't be shy, literally list it all out like you were drawing a diagram.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

And include equipment models and connections on them used.


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## TadPops (Jan 11, 2009)

Any diagram will have to wait until this weekend, since you guys want model numbers and such. However, remember that the receiver from the front room works fine on that line.

And, yes, the zip code is the same on both units. Learned that one ages ago with a friend's dish long before I had one of my own.

I am also beginning to believe it is the TiVo itself. I talked to my sister, and asked her if she had any problems with the unit. She didn't have problems with it finding the satellite, but it had begun overheating and just turning itself off (one reason she upgraded to the DVR) so maybe that was the beginning of the end.

I do have one satellite splitter to split out the antenna signal right before the TiVo, but at several points yesterday (basically everytime I tried a new set-up) I by-passed it and went directly into the TiVo and it didn't make any difference. And, again, the front receiver works no matter what line I put it on.


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## TadPops (Jan 11, 2009)

Okay, gang, here is the update. I took the TiVo back to my sister's house, and although we got excellent transponder strength on all but 4 transponders, and we got the guide, we did not get any stations, so the tuner is fried. Problem one solved.

Problem two, I do still have a wiring problem to the back room, because the new receiver still can't find a signal back there (ALL transponders now ZERO - not just half of them), but works just fine in the living room. So, for those who requested same, here is the wiring diagram:

Direct TV dish, round, 2LNB, both lines to a Samsung 3-to-4 multiswitch. My regular antenna is on the third lead into the multiswitch.

From the multiswitch to the living room is one coax cable, 50-footer, to a Holland STVC splitter that has a specific output line for the dish and one for the antenna. From there, coaxes to the dish, the DVR, etc. This setup works like a champ.

From the multiswitch to the back room: one 25" coax (which is actually too long, but is what I had - it will get replaced with a shorter one). This goes to a RadioShack satellite combiner, along with the antenna wire, and then a 50-foot coax into the house. From there to a RadioShack satellite splitter, with the antenna going to do its thing (and working perfectly) and the other to the receiver. To see if the problem was in the inside splitter, I took the line coming into the house directly to the receiver - still nothing.

Looking at my set-ups and based on what I've read that ya'll have sent me, please let me know if I need to do the following:

buy another multi-switch to use to combine the antenna and satellite lines on the roof instead of the regular combiner

and

buy another splitter like the Holland that is specifically labeled satellite and dish

or

can I get away with just the new interior splitter and not have to crawl on my roof again? I really hate that part.

Again, and as always, thank you very much for all your help.


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## seedcar (Aug 8, 2005)

I am not sure what the RadioShack satellite combiner is but that may be causing the problem. You have both lines from the dish and the line from the antenna going into the multiswitch. You should not have anything else in line to the receiver end. Both outputs of the multiswith will output the satellite and antenna signals. At the receiver end you would use diplexers, not splitters, which the Holland STVC splitter is, to separate the satellite and antenna signals.

Do you have the model number of the Samsung 3-to-4 multiswitch?


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## TadPops (Jan 11, 2009)

Okay, gang, never mind. If I had thought for a minute, I would have absolutely realized I need an additonal mulit-switch, since I had it hooked directly to the receiver and was getting nothing - the problem couldn't be inside at that point. Good news - betcha it works tomorrow when I can get back on the roof - plus I can take out that extra 25-footer and thus will also have a stronger signal. The bad news - gotta get on the roof again. Will let ya'll know if successful. Thanks again!


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## TadPops (Jan 11, 2009)

Okay, gang - new wiring diagram:

Dish to Samsung Mulitswitch, with antenna into the Ant In post
1 coax out from the multiswitch into the house
Coax into the RadioShack diplexer
Sat out coax to Sat In 1
Coax out to TV

And we are back to "Cant' find right side of dish" (but at least it is finding part of the dish - this is good?)

Now what?


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## TadPops (Jan 11, 2009)

Never mind - I did one last, desperate thing, and it worked. I moved the coax into the multiswitch from one post to the other. I am now in business in both rooms (although the TiVo's tuner is still kaput, unfortunately).

Thanks again everyone for your help!


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