# Fios TV and Tivo



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

I finally got the FiosTV installed last week. It works great so far...and the best part is were able to set up our Tivo with the FiosTV. I was pretty sure it would be able to work but when I had called Verizon they kept telling me that Tivo wouldn't work and I would have to get the Verizon DVR.

Now, it's not that I didn't want the Verizon DVR, but we have a lifetime subscription on our Tivo and wanted to keep using it. So the Tivo is stilling kicking in our master bedroom and the new Verizon Motorola DVR is in our living room. I've only had it for a few days, but I can definately say it's no Tivo. It doesn't do that nifty back up a couple of seconds after you stop fast forwarding and the layout of the buttons on the remote is horrible. I'm definately happy I can keep my Tivo. The only cool thing about the DVR from Verizon is you can record one channel, change the channel to watch something else, and it keeps recording what it's suppose to. It will even record two shows that come on at the same time. 

I just thought I'd relay the message for others that can get FiosTV in their area that you can still use your Tivo dispite what the Verizon reps may have told you over the phone.


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## cowboys2002 (Jun 15, 2001)

What neck of the woods are you?

How many channels, and how much per month?

If you don't mind!!

I am thinking of moving to Texas, and hopefully a FIOS area!


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## TiVoPhish (Mar 12, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> ...It doesn't do that nifty back up a couple of seconds after you stop fast forwarding...


I have no idea what DVR you got, but if the remote offers a "instant replay" button you can simulate the jump back quite easily. There's two ways to try... either while it's fast forwarding just hit the replay button instead of play... or hit the play button first than the replay button. Either one will cause that "jump back" you're talking about. Nope, not as good at TiVo's built-in ability to do so, but a comfortable work-around for now.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Good to know the FIOS providers can give info of the same quality as the Cable Co.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

I'm in Lewisville. Not all of Lewisville has it yet. I have a friend a couple of blocks away that still can't get it even though he has the Fios Internet. I think most parts of Carrollton, Irving and Flower Mound also have it.

Expanded Basic is $34.99/month (3.99 for a standard set top box, 9.99 for an HD set top box or 12.99 for the HD DVR and the HD DVR doesn't need a seperate HD reciever to pick up the HD channels) I also got the showtime package which is an extra $11.95/month and it includes 44 channels of showtime, flix, encore and sundance. They also offer standard and free video on demand. It's really not much cheaper than satelite (we had Dish) but it sure is a heck of a lot more dependable. We'd constantly get the 'cannot acquire satelite signal' message on cloudy or stormy days. There's nothing like getting into a show and losing your signal for the last ten minutes of the show. Now I don't have to worry about that.


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## Jotas (Mar 19, 2005)

Lucky dog! If/when Verizon starts dropping fiber in my 'hood I'll have seriously look at their offerings. There are two new developments popping up near me, but I doubt I'll see Verizon dropping fiber there and near my 'hood anytime soon.


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## mavsman78 (Jan 19, 2006)

Hey Unicorn,

I'm in Carrollton, thinking about switching from DTV to Fios. One of the things that's keeping me from making the switch is not having enough details about the DVR from Verizon. Could you post a review of the DVR? In particular, I'm curious about it's recording features and ease-of-use.

Other Questions:
Can you setup a show to record from the guide?
How easy is it to setup a series to be recorded?
Does it have to be plugged into a phone line?
Is it home networking capable/ready?

Anything like that would be helpful. If possible, could you post some screenshots as well?


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

AFAIK, the DVR is a custom Motorola cable DVR. It doesn't use a phone or network connection at all, it simply uses the FIOS digital network for its communication.


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## Justin Thyme (Mar 29, 2005)

Some FIOS users reported getting the 6414. It appears the prefered version that FIOS will use is the QIP6416.

AFAIK, VOD in FIOS comes in over IP. But it is true that the idea is that all STBs and DVRs only need Coax in the home to access this stuff. What they do is put a converter in the box where the glass comes in from the street. The IP streams are converted into RF that goes onto the Coax. This is what Moca does. (multimedia over cable)


avsforum's wfisher said:


> There is a MoCA adapter installed after the router that delivers the VOD. Our tech mentioned that 2nd quarter of 2006 they should be enabling communication between your STB's via the COAX. That and that the ONT** will be replaced with a bulit into MoCA feature. source


**(an ONT is the optical network terminator- the box where the glass data gets split off into coax, telephone line, and cat5e data cables into the home.)


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## Generic (Dec 27, 2005)

unicorngoddess said:


> Expanded Basic is $34.99/month (3.99 for a standard set top box, 9.99 for an HD set top box or 12.99 for the HD DVR and the HD DVR doesn't need a seperate HD reciever to pick up the HD channels) I also got the showtime package which is an extra $11.95/month and it includes 44 channels of showtime, flix, encore and sundance. They also offer standard and free video on demand.


What is also good is that local broadcast HD and national (i.e. ESPN HD) HD channels are included with the expanded basic line-up.

http://www22.verizon.com/FiOSForHome/channels/FiOSTV/FiosTVHome.aspx


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Yeah, all those included HD channels are pretty cool because you don't have to purchase a seperate HD package.

The DVR that comes with Fios TV isn't all that great. Not as easy to use as Tivo but I guess it's still pretty easy to figure out. I was able to pick up the remote and start scheduling shows without having to read directions or anything. You can easily set up 'season passes' through the guide by hitting the record button twice. This will tell the DVR to record the series. It's a dual tuner too so it can pad your show at the beginning and end without interfering with other recordings. the layout of the remote takes some getting use to. But it's still a pretty nifty DVR. I wish it would come with something like our Tivo Desktop option to transfer recordings to your computer...maybe it will later down the line or something.

I'm really enjoying the free video on demand. No such thing on Dish. I stayed at home pretty much all weekend watching all kinds of movies and it was great! There's also a Fios TV Help section in the VOD section. If you have any problems or anything with the DVR, there's a whole video walk-through section there that you can watch. It's pretty cool.


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

Justin Thyme said:


> QIP6416


QIP = QAM / IP

Cute eh?


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## Justin Thyme (Mar 29, 2005)

Yeah, I saw your eagle eye observation on AVSForums. They have a sense of humor...

One thing I didn't get was your assumption of bandwidth limitation into the home for HD. I know that the IP channel at least as far as the user is concerned won't allow 2 HD channels, but It seems to me that they would relax this limit for their own VOD demands, even though it is coming in over IP. 

What I am saying is, are you sure the FIOS bandwidth limit includes IP bandwidth necessary for FIOS TV reqirements? If so, is it because they cannot discriminate because of "Net Neutrality" rules?


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## bobharp (Jan 17, 2003)

I've been following this Verizon FIOS thing for some time now. Still waiting and wishing for franchise rights in my area. A read a news post about Verizon using RF instead of IPTV last fall. A quick google turned up this article Verizon uses RF for FiOS TV . Being a tech news hound I also ran across (last spring) and read through Microsofts IPTV info and groaned because I thought Verizon would use it. Thankfully like most Microsoft products Microsoft + IPTV = Trouble?


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## Bai Shen (Dec 17, 2004)

So do you have to use the set top box to get your tv? Or can you hook up a tivo directly? Will Verizon use cable cards?


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## Justin Thyme (Mar 29, 2005)

You will be able to connect Tivo to the FIOS STB just as you would a cableco or DBS stb. The model used is a standard box- model number earlier mentionned in this thread and on avsforums.

I can only offer speculations on CC compatibility so take it with a grain of salt. There is some indication that they will function with Cablecard devices (also noted earlier with reference to a presentation to the FCC by FIOS).

AFAIK, there has been nothing definitive stated on cablecard interoperability with FIOS. I am not sure if verizon is more motivated by the commercial advantage of at least appearing to interoperate with cablecard equipment, or that they are concerned about FCC compliance since they meet the definition of a carrier coverred by the 1996 telecom act.


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

Justin Thyme said:


> One thing I didn't get was your assumption of bandwidth limitation into the home for HD.


Which post?

I don't assume any IP bandwidth limitation for Verizon (FTTP). There is one ... but it's not going to be a (noticeable) limitation at first. Fiber comes all the way to the house ... but ... at some point that active fiber becomes passive and you do have some theoretical max which is pooled between the number of customers per active node ...

I do assume a bandwidth limitation for SBC/ATT (FTTN) ... because they have said they can only get 20-25Mbps IP down the copper from the fiber node to the house. And that 20-25Mbps IP is all you got ...


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## Bai Shen (Dec 17, 2004)

Justin Thyme said:


> You will be able to connect Tivo to the FIOS STB just as you would a cableco or DBS stb. The model used is a standard box- model number earlier mentionned in this thread and on avsforums.
> 
> I can only offer speculations on CC compatibility so take it with a grain of salt. There is some indication that they will function with Cablecard devices (also noted earlier with reference to a presentation to the FCC by FIOS).
> 
> AFAIK, there has been nothing definitive stated on cablecard interoperability with FIOS. I am not sure if verizon is more motivated by the commercial advantage of at least appearing to interoperate with cablecard equipment, or that they are concerned about FCC compliance since they meet the definition of a carrier coverred by the 1996 telecom act.


That's what I was tryin' to figure out. I would prefer not to deal with a STB.


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## Justin Thyme (Mar 29, 2005)

dt_dc said:


> I do assume a bandwidth limitation for SBC/ATT (FTTN) ... because they have said they can only get 20-25Mbps IP down the copper from the fiber node to the house. And that 20-25Mbps IP is all you got ...


 Right, it was in regards to SBC, but that is not an absolute, right? My assumption is that the 20/25 is just step 1 in a phased implementation- rolling glass out progressively increasing the density of local switches so you can reduce the copper runs. After all, VDSL will do 150mbps if the runs are max 1/3 KM.

Folks like infineon and others are selling chips that do 50mbps using VDSL and it's not some theoretical number- Korea Telecom is now offering 50mbps over VDSL.


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

Justin Thyme said:


> Right, it was in regards to SBC, but that is not an absolute, right? My assumption is that the 20/25 is just step 1 in a phased implementation- rolling glass out progressively increasing the density of local switches so you can reduce the copper runs. After all, VDSL will do 150mbps if the runs are max 1/3 KM.


True. In fact, SBC/ATT is doing fiber all the way to the house in some "greenfields" (new construction). It's just ... "step 1" is going to take a long time to implment (and alot of $$$) and it's going to take quite some time before seeing "step 2" ... so, their services are going to be based on the 20/25Mbps limit for a while. Yes, they can certainly start taking the node closer and closer to the house. All it takes is $$$.

This is very similar to cable. When cable first layed fiber, they had 1000+ (heck, 10,000+) customers per node. They've been moving the fiber closer and closer to the house and breaking down that node size ... 500 homes per node ... 250 ... 150 ...


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## mavsman78 (Jan 19, 2006)

I'm getting Fios TV and Internet installed at my house Friday afternoon. I'll be writing up a full review and comparison with pictures of the installation and the DVR interface once I get it.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Congratulations. You're going to love it! Especially the lightening fast internet speed


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## mavsman78 (Jan 19, 2006)

I've written a review and comparison on my blog. I've included close-up pictures and Tivo comparison shots. Check it out and let me know if you'd like to see or know more about anything else: http://kevinrossen.com/2006/01/28/goodbye-directv-hello-fios-tv/


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## jones07 (Jan 30, 2001)

Wow thanks for the review of the service and install. I'll be a grey old man before fios-tv get near me. We were one of the last big cities to get cable.

Great Job


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## Justin Thyme (Mar 29, 2005)

Thanks for the pictures. Many of your questions regarding purpose of the NIM and Moca can be found on avsforum. Here are two threads of interest: 6414 and fios and more general info on home networking wrt Moto boxes

My questions are:

How do I record all hitchcock movies? Wishlist?

Do I have folders and alternate sort orders in the Now Playing list? (alpha vs. record date vs. ?)

Are their personalization features (dad's now playing vs. Mom's)

What is the Wife acceptance factor?

Considering the SW is Microsoft's- Can I transfer shows to PCs?

Can I record off of YouTube, Google Video, internet archives of free movies?

Can I output broadcast network HD via Firewire port on the Moto? (fcc compliance question)


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## Mr. Happypants (Jan 30, 2006)

I've been sitting on the fence about FIOS since it came to our county before the end of last year. (Anne Arundel, south of Baltimore) Mostly because I'm not sure how it holds up for gaming, and now I guess I need to be aware of possible Tivo interaction, since we just got our first unit this holiday season.

I'll sit down & read Kevin's review later, hopefully it'll convince me to get off the Comcast teat that we've been subjected to for so long!


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## Generic (Dec 27, 2005)

mavsman78 said:


> I've written a review and comparison on my blog. I've included close-up pictures and Tivo comparison shots. Check it out and let me know if you'd like to see or know more about anything else: http://kevinrossen.com/2006/01/28/goodbye-directv-hello-fios-tv/


Your install took a little over 3 hours. Did that include the internet install or did you already have it?

I have FIOS internet now but I am confused about the router being required for FIOS TV. My router is at my computer so I am wondering if they have to run more wires from my router to the tv(s) or ONT? Is the current cat 5e cable the only cable that is used?


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## mavsman78 (Jan 19, 2006)

Generic said:


> Your install took a little over 3 hours. Did that include the internet install or did you already have it?
> 
> I have FIOS internet now but I am confused about the router being required for FIOS TV. My router is at my computer so I am wondering if they have to run more wires from my router to the tv(s) or ONT? Is the current cat 5e cable the only cable that is used?


I had both TV and Internet installed together. I had Comcast before FiOS, so they just ran a Cat 5e cable along next to the coax cable to my office.

The router is only used for VOD and PPV. They don't run cables from the router to the TVs. They used the coax cable that I had for comcast to run from the NIM back to the ONT. The NIM is connected to one of the ports on the router.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

mavsman78 said:


> I've written a review and comparison on my blog. I've included close-up pictures and Tivo comparison shots. Check it out and let me know if you'd like to see or know more about anything else: http://kevinrossen.com/2006/01/28/goodbye-directv-hello-fios-tv/


If you haven't already, I doubt anyone would mind if you cross posted in the HD forum or even other sites. I know I've heard of this beast called fios but your write up is the best so far I've read for a novice like me.


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## mavsman78 (Jan 19, 2006)

newsposter said:


> If you haven't already, I doubt anyone would mind if you cross posted in the HD forum or even other sites. I know I've heard of this beast called fios but your write up is the best so far I've read for a novice like me.


I'm not sure if cross posting is a technical feature or if it's just posting the same info in another forum. I'll go ahead and re-post in the HD forum.


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## buba12 (Apr 12, 2003)

I have FIOSTV, going on 4 days now. The first thing Verizon told me is TIVO will not work with FIOSTV. So my poor TIVO is sitting there neglected. So if anyone can tell me HOW to hook up my tivo to fiostv I sure would appreciate it.

With Comcast I could use their dvr and my tivo, just split the cable one to Tivo and one to DVR; that allowed me to record upto 3 shows simultaneously....which was cool.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

buba12 said:


> I have FIOSTV, going on 4 days now. The first thing Verizon told me is TIVO will not work with FIOSTV. So my poor TIVO is sitting there neglected. So if anyone can tell me HOW to hook up my tivo to fiostv I sure would appreciate it.


My husband hooked ours up. I'll have him write up an explanation as to how he did it and post it here. I'm not going to pretend to know how it works an attempt to look behind our tivo to see how it's hooked up because i'll probably end up confusing the both of us


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Cableboxwise, the terminal is a Motorola, so treat it as a motorola cable box.


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## cwhogan (Oct 5, 2003)

My ONT has a coax connection next to the data and voice jacks. Does this mean I won't need that NIM device to connect to my home's coax wiring? Does the NIM or ONT produce an analog signal that will work with cable ready TVs (and my S2) or does every TV in my house require a STB?

I assume I can attach my S2 to the STB and use the I/R repeater thingie, but I've never been a fan of that.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

My understanding is the ONT with the coax fitting eliminates the need for the NIM, and there might be a couple analog channels.


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

cwhogan said:


> My ONT has a coax connection next to the data and voice jacks. Does this mean I won't need that NIM device to connect to my home's coax wiring?


No. The NIM acts as an Ethernet <-> Moca bridge. This _can_ be built into the ONT. But AFAIK hasn't been yet. If your ONT has a bridge ... you won't need the NIM. Otherwise, you will.

This has nothing to do with whether the ONT has coax out. All ONTs have coax out. The 1550nm wavelength on fiber is used for RF ... the ONT just takes the RF on 1550nm and transfers it to coax.


cwhogan said:


> Does the NIM or ONT produce an analog signal that will work with cable ready TVs (and my S2) or does every TV in my house require a STB?


There's a few analog channels what will work with cable ready TVs and your S2 (without a seperate box). Basically the locals ...

If you go here:
http://www22.verizon.com/FiosForHome/Channels/FiosTV/channel.aspx

Look at your lineup. The "Basic" channels (2-50) should* be available as analog. The other channels should* all be digital only.

should* = May vary from market to market. Verizon may also play/experiment with this a little ...


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## Gravesland (Nov 10, 2006)

See the posts on the FIOS compatability. Verizon is telling me that I can't use my Tivo, but from what I see from you folks..it is possible. 

Couple of questions:
1) Do you still need a set-top box if you are running through Tivo?
2) Are all Series 2 and Humax DVD versions compatible?

Hate to give up my Tivo for some knock-off piece from Verizon.

Appreciate any comments.


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## mbpress (Feb 21, 2003)

Gravesland said:


> See the posts on the FIOS compatability. Verizon is telling me that I can't use my Tivo, but from what I see from you folks..it is possible.
> 
> Couple of questions:
> 1) Do you still need a set-top box if you are running through Tivo?
> ...


I have FIOS, a series2 & Humax DVD and Tivo and it works fine. The std def "cable boxes" work with the serial cable to change channels. The HD "cable box" you need the IR blaster.

Without a "cable box" there is very little you can see/record - just local channels.

I hope that helps.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Gravesland said:


> See the posts on the FIOS compatability. Verizon is telling me that I can't use my Tivo, but from what I see from you folks..it is possible.
> 
> Couple of questions:
> 1) Do you still need a set-top box if you are running through Tivo?
> ...


Yes, it's very possible. We've had our Tivo connected with Fios service since December. Not sure about the DVD Humax but our Series 2 has been working just fine.

The Verizon DVR isn't THAT bad (if you have HD you're gonna get the Verizon DVR because they're HD STB has a built in DVR...I don't think you can just get the HD STB without a DVR) but it's hard to get use to. We retained our Tivo for our bedroom use and the Verizon DVR is in the living room. I still perfer the Tivo but the Verizon DVR is going through constant improvements. It's a lot better now than it was in December.


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