# Hardware Refresh



## oversight (Jan 7, 2008)

I'm still relatively new to the Tivo world after having run my ReplayTV into the ground....and it's inability to record HD content.

How often does Tivo update their hardware (Tivo S2, Tivo S3, TivoHD, etc)?

What sorts of features should new a product add to the mix?

-true 2 way cable
-1080p output
-more efficient/state of the art compression to get more recording time on a drive
-drive bay to plug in a new HDD, in addition to the esata storage


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## zand94 (May 20, 2002)

To your points:

If you look through many of the transcripts of quarterly earnings conference calls and interviews with some tivo execs you can find one ore more of these answers. I'll summarzie the items I remember:

1 - Product hardware refreshes seem to occur in 18-24 month time frames. Since 1998 there has been the series1 (and it's multiple vendor flavors), DirecTiVO, ATT-Tivo (precursor to series2), Series 2 (2 or 3 hardware revs), HD DIrecTivo, Series 2 + DVD, Series 2 + DVD Burner, Series 2 DualTuner (one or 2 hardware revs), Series 3, TivoHD (just last year) - They are working on what we call the "Series 4" that will probably still need cable cards but will contain tru2way & sdv capabilities.

2 - Tivo has been instrumental in the tru2way specification. It could be said that Tivo has been leading the way and a pioneer. Their work with the ComcastTivo & CoxTivo software upgrades is essientially all "tru2way" work. Tivo is ahead of the curve in creating a multi MSO capable tru2way device by at least 2 years. Even though many CE manufactures (Sony, samsung, toshiba and others) are signing tru2way agreements, at least publicly we're not aware of any work they've done previously in this field.

1080p output - if this is possible on the current S3 & TivoHDs (id' have to relook at the chip specs) then it's just a matter of a software feature update to allow that. If it is a problem of the chipset not supporting it, I would say the "Series4" probably would provide that capability.

compression (aka codecs) - the current S3 & TivoHDs are having parts of their MPEG4 chipsets enabled for use in the 9.4 software update to allow for the H.264 streaming of YouTube videos. Again i'd have to look at the chipset specs, but I believe the one currently there only allows for the decoding and not the encoding of MPEG4 streams. The way the S3 & THD models work is that they're directly recording the bitstream from the cable cards. With most of the ATSC specs for OTA broadcasts still pointing to MPEG2 (as these were created in the mid 90s well before MPEG4 was even in a working group) it's still much more efficient to do a direct record of the broadcast (cable or OTA) bitstream than to do a transcoding from MPEG2 (SD or HD) to an MPEG4 stream. - - Given this info and looking forward - cable MSOs are looking to begin deploying test beds of MPEG4 cable plants to try to get more HD programming inside their pipes with these codecs since the bitsream is usually smaller than an MPEG2 bitstream. Theoretically the S3 and TivoHD could (via a software update) begin recognizing and using the MPEG4 bitstream for normal tv playback.

BUT - if you're talking about say - the S3 and TivoHD and upcoming Series 4 having MPEG4 encoding capabilities for recording analog cable (ie using these 3 platforms WITHOUT cablecards and plugged into coax) - I dont think it's possible right now but possibly could in the Series 4 - although i would not see much of a need for this as cable MSOs are looking to move to a digital only (QAM) platform which my previous paragraph would apply to.

plug in Drive bay - If they have not done that by now - they probably wont - it's much more of a warranty and support issue. That's the reason they came out with the 'officially sanctioned" Western Digital MyDVR Expander. I do see them working with WD to make either a 750GB or 1TB expander.
You'll also probably see the HD capacity of the Series4 be somewhere in the 250-500GB range at the time it comes out. I wouldnt be surprised if we see a TivoHD "refresh" in the interim that adds a larger stock drive.

Looking forward (and backward a bit) - Tivo is most definately working to move much of the internet video available onto it's platform so the home user gets more bang for their buck and increases the value for purchasing a Tivo and maintaining that subscription. With the "TivoCast" area, Amazon Unbox, the Tivo Desktop PLUS and now the YouTube capabilities - Tivo is unlocking the true potential of it's hardware and network connected devices. Many of us want it to add RSS subscription capabilities to allow subscriptions to internet video sites (which usually utilize MPEG4 codecs). This is not too far out of the realm of what they could eaisly do with a software update.

The looking backward would be that Tivo had a partnership with NetFlix prior to their Amazon Unbox deal. I am sure I speak for all Tivo owners in saying that we really want to see them revisit this and make it possible - ASAP.

Just remember that those S3s purchased nearly 2.5-3 years ago that are in use now were originally purchased under a version 5 or 6 software. We're now up to version 9.4 and they just added more features. The tivo software dev team is doing a tremendous job at adding more value to our devices and unlocking the capabilities of their hardware. It's not always about the hardware being refreshed - it's about adding features via software.
We all want a stable hardware platform that decreases in manufacturing costs that allows our favorite company to become profitable and have more money to add more software features.



oversight said:


> I'm still relatively new to the Tivo world after having run my ReplayTV into the ground....and it's inability to record HD content.
> 
> How often does Tivo update their hardware (Tivo S2, Tivo S3, TivoHD, etc)?
> 
> ...


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

zand94 said:


> Just remember that those S3s purchased nearly 2.5-3 years ago


No S3 TiVos were purchased 2.5 to 3 years ago. The very first S3 TiVo was sold in September of 2006, a bit less than 2 years ago.



zand94 said:


> that are in use now were originally purchased under a version 5 or 6 software.


I believe the S3 rolled out with Version 8 software. At a minimum it was Version 7.


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## zand94 (May 20, 2002)

Okie!  Thanks for the correction - since i didnt purchase the S3 when it came out i didnt have a good recollection of it.



lrhorer said:


> No S3 TiVos were purchased 2.5 to 3 years ago. The very first S3 TiVo was sold in September of 2006, a bit less than 2 years ago.
> 
> I believe the S3 rolled out with Version 8 software. At a minimum it was Version 7.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

IIRC, the Series 3 units come with 8.1 out of the factory, and for a short while got 8.2, until everybody got 8.3

ZAND94 has it mostly right. I will say though:

For the Series 1 Standalone platform, there was only two designs, the US version; licensed to Philips and Sony, and the UK version; licensed to Thomson. I wouldn't call vendor branding a "refresh".

The Series 2 version 1 (1xx) was a complete redo, of which a build was licensed to AT&T. Sony made their own version of that platform. Launched late 2001/early 2002.


The Series 2 Version 2 was partial redo. I believe some units may have been licensed to AT&T. Launched early 2003.
The first DVD units were based on the 2xx platform, Licensed to Toshiba and Pioneer

The Series 2 Gen04 (5xx), launched summer 2004, reduced parts count and board size significantly, added PROM kernel security.
Licensed to Humax. Further development of DVD units, licensed also to Humax.

Spring 2006, DT platform launched, has Dual tuners, built in ethernet, more RAM.

Fall 2006 Series, summer 2007, TiVo HD.

If anything the Series 2 DT platform could get refreshed, as a lot of people are complaining it is not fitting in their view of an all digital world. The TiVo HD platform , with slight build modifications, is ready for that. With the original Series 3 not in production anymore, they could find something to take its place, improving the TiVo HD platform, without redoing the mainboard design.


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

Expandable tuners. I think 4 tuners, with pip capability. Dual HDMI outputs so you can use 2 inputs on your tv.


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## oversight (Jan 7, 2008)

Thank you for the responses. I am pretty happy with my TivoHD, but was curious what may be offered in a next gen box. I do like the idea of a third tuner, as well as significantly expanded HDD capacity right out of the box.


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## turbobozz (Sep 21, 2006)

TiVo needs more horsepower.
The interface should not look as crappy as it does in HD.
It should be able to do PiP, etc. with Guide data at the very least.
It shouldn't feel slow to respond.

Transfers shouldn't take forever.

It would also be great if we had much more remote access to our TiVo's than we do now.
Store more of our TiVo's info on TiVo servers for web access maybe?

More focus on software and interface polish too please.
The little annoying bugs just get more and more annoying after they go unfixed or remain only partially fixed.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

You can dream, but you have to be realistic also. 

The immediate next model will likely be the Tru2Way capable model, or an update of the Series 2 DT (aformentioned TiVo HD less HD out, but with an SD box in added), if not just a TiVo HD with larger drive.

Down the road could see a TiVo Home Media Gateway, which could record up to four or six digital antenna and/or cable channels, and feed up to 4 HD terminals. Not this decade though.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I really think Tivo should refresh the hardware more often. As I mentioned in another thread, they should do a refresh every year for both the Tivo HD and Tivo HD XL.

For example the Tivo HD comes with the 160gb drive so this January they could release the Tivo HD now with a 250gb drive. The result of this would be stores now offering the Tivo HD with the 250gb drive at 299 and any remaining stock of the 160gb drive would be marked down by retailers. You would draw more customers similar to how this happens anytime console prices drop since the older boxes may be now be in a price range they are willing to pay. Just look at how much attention the Father's Day special and the Sears clearance has attracted. 

They could then re-release the Tivo HDXL in May with the 1.5TB drive and just every 6 months tweak the Tivo HD or the HDXL. They would always be on the tail end of hardware prices since just look at how much the 1TB drives have dropped in the last 6 months. Also by doing the constant refresh you will have more discussion and interest on new hardware and it won't feel like such a long gap between new models. Right now it feels like the Series 4 is due anytime just because there has been nothing done to the Tivo HD hardware wise recently and especially with the 160gb drive which is significantly short on space as more people get HD.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

A drive upgrade is not a true refresh. 

A true (as in system board and case) refresh isn't economically practical in less than 3-4 years, for the number of subscribers TiVo has.

A drive upgrade every couple of years is reasonable, but does add SKUs/Models, and because less drives of a particular capacity, economies of scale will drive the unit price up, not to mention the natural price increase a capacity upgrade would warrant.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I agree it isn't a true refresh but then again there is nothing to say they couldn't change hardware at the same time like they have done with the Tivo HD which I believe has had 3 different PROM versions.

I don't see it driving the price up because the drives they would be buying to use would always be the ones which are on their way out. Take for example the 250gb drive I mentioned. Best Buy doesn't even carry a 250gb 3.5 drive anymore. Newegg has them for 47.99 vs 39.99 for the 160gb so I can't imagine there would be really any additional cost to make the switch. Also at the rate the new drives are dropping in price by the time next January rolls around the 320gb would be even cheaper than the 250gb. 

They wouldn't necessarily have to make a new SKU they could just replace the old model since it would still be a Tivo HD. I don't believe the Xbox 360 Arcade has a new Sku even though the newer ones come with built in storage but I may be wrong. 

I just think Tivo needs to do something to keep it feeling current especially when you read what some of the other cable and satellite companies are working on. With Tivo always so tight lipped you start to wonder if anything is in the works.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

I think that's not such a bad marketing idea. Increase drive sizes every now and again and change a digit in the model number to make people think it's "new and improved"- change the front bezel if they like.


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