# Wiring Questions - HR10-250 to HR23



## BGLeduc (Aug 26, 2003)

I have a few specific wiring questions regarding a possible migration to an HR23 from a HR10-250. My search skills have failed me, so if you would be so kind to answer these hopefully simple questions, I will be much obliged.

In simple terms, I am trying to determine what wiring will be required for the HR23.

There is a 4 cable run from the existing dish (3 horn with built in 4 output multiswitch) to a common distribution spot on the side of my home. From there, the cables from the dish connect to feeds to each sat box location. I am aware that I will require a new dish as part of the migration.

My existing HR10-250 location has two lines run from the existing satellite dish. One of those two lines also has an OTA antenna feed using diplexors, thus there are currently 3 coax cables connected to the HR10-250. It is my understanding that the new dish wiring does not support diplexing for OTA feeds.

My questions are:


In order to utilize the two tuner capability of the HR23, does it require two separate sat feeds, or does the HR23 support two tuner operation from a single coax?

Does the HR23 have an OTA tuner? I know I can can get many (if not all) of my locals over D*, but I would prefer to stay with an OTA tuner in the event of sat outages which happen from time to time during our monsoon season.

I have two additional SD Tivos at other locations each with a single coax. I assume that those SD boxes will continue to operate as they do now with the new dish?

Thanks in advance.

Brian


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

1. It depends on what kind of dish is installed. If it is a dish with a built in Single Wire Multiplexor (SWM), only one feed is needed for the HR23. Furthermore, this feed can be split with high-bandwidth splitters to feed more HR2x (and some H2x) boxes. 

If a non-SWM dish is installed, then it will work just like your HR10, except that, as you note, diplexing won't work because the frequencies used for the HD satellites overlap the OTA frequencies. Your existing multiswitch will need to be replaced with a WB68 (and you'll probably have to ask that this be included and verify with the installer.)

2. No. You can ask for the separate AM-21 OTA tuner, which connects to the HR23 with a USB cable. They may give it to you for free, otherwise it is $50.

3. If the new dish has the built-in SWM, existing DTiVos will NOT work. If it doesn't, then it will work as it does for you today. I'll note that you can buy (DirecTV won't give it to you) a separate SWM-8 device that resembles a multiswitch. This takes the four feeds from the dish and converts it to two SWM feeds plus two "legacy" feeds - these legacy feeds can be used for your DTiVos. You only need one of the SWM feeds for the HR23 leaving the fourth feed for OTA - and indeed this is exactly how I have mine set up.


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## BGLeduc (Aug 26, 2003)

Excellent info, Steve.

Now all I need to find is someone at D* that understands what I need/want, and an installer that actually returns phone calls such that he will be aware of what is required when he arrives.

Last time I moved, I tried in vain to contact the D* approved installer in advance so that they would be aware that my install was going to be somewhat less than straight forward. Of course, they never returned my calls, such that it took three visits for them to actually finish the job properly.

If the D* Gods smile upon my, those idiots will no longer be doing D* installation work.

Brian


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## BGLeduc (Aug 26, 2003)

Steve,

I found some info on the SWM-8 that implied that there was a model with 3 Legacy outs. Is this equivalent to your model, or this a different animal?

http://www.weaknees.com/swm-directv.php

There are some specs at the bottom of the linked page.

If such a beast exists, it would preferable for me, as it would give us the option of having all three legacy Tivo's in place (the 2 SD models, and the HR10-250), along with the HR23.

Brian


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Honestly all you need is the most basic upgrade: New dish and WB68 switch. Then you can use the new HR23 plus all legacy receivers with no issues.

Using the SWM-8 external module would be very similar to the regular WB68 switch, you're just limited in the number of legacy receivers you can use but you have the advantage of running both tuners on a single cable to the HR23.

The only equipment you cannot use is the SWM LNB built in. Those are pretty rare in stalls actually and if you make mention that you have legacy receiver I highly doubt they would bring one.

If you want the SWM-8 you will need to buy that yourself. Then all the installer has to do is bring a Slimline 3 or 5 dish and you're good to go.


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## cthomp21 (Jul 15, 2007)

The possibility of a D* installer bringing SWM equipment for your install is practically zero. You'll most likely have to buy a SWM-8 yourself if you plan to go that route. There are threads, and threads, and threads on dbstalk.com about people requesting SWM equipment and the installer never showing up with it.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

The page you reference is wrong. There are only two legacy outputs on the SWM-8.

The other replies here are good information. In particular, if you want a SWM-8 you WILL have to buy it yourself.


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## whitepelican (Feb 15, 2005)

stevel said:


> The page you reference is wrong. There are only two legacy outputs on the SWM-8.
> 
> The other replies here are good information. In particular, if you want a SWM-8 you WILL have to buy it yourself.


No, there are THREE legacy outputs on the SWM-8. There are two SWM outputs.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Hmm - not on mine... But I do have an early model.


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## whitepelican (Feb 15, 2005)

Look at the photo in the Weaknees link above. The three ports on the left are labeled "Legacy 1", "Legacy 2", "Legacy 3". That photo is exactly like the SWM-8 I have. I've never heard any mention of a different one. The only other one I've heard of is the SWM LNB which doesn't have legacy ports at all.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Possible Steve has an early testing model (I can't speak for him of course) or somehow got one of the first ones on the market and the dealer "jumped the gun" or something. On DBSTalk they said that there was even an SWM-5 in testing at one point but they scrapped that in favor of the SWM-8.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Hmm - guess I'll have to go look at mine again! I did not get a "testing" model, but it was an early production run. I also paid double the current price!


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## BGLeduc (Aug 26, 2003)

Where do we stand on the question of SWM-8 vs. WB68 switch? As I clearly do not even know enough about this to be dangerous, your guidance is much appreciated.

I am also thinking that I would be better served if, rather then trying to talk tech with D*, I just tell them that I want to upgrade, but still keep my legacy Tivo's running....and then let them figure out what they need to satisfy that requirement. 

Does that sound like a reasonable plan, or will that likely lead to multiple visits by the local installer before they get it right?

Brian


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

BGLeduc said:


> Where do we stand on the question of SWM-8 vs. WB68 switch? As I clearly do not even know enough about this to be dangerous, your guidance is much appreciated.


The WB68 is just your standard multiswitch. It is a replacement for the multiswitch you already have (perhaps a 4x8 switch). The WB however can pass along the KA band which what the new HD/MPEG4 satellites are on. The old switches do KU band only (all the older sats).
Using the WB68 you will also need to use the B-Band converters on your HR2x units (comes in the box with the HR2x).

The SWM-8 is "Single Wire Multiswitch" which means that on the SWM ports you can run dual tuners with one wire (on receivers that support it of course, DirecTivo's do not) *and* you can use standard "cable" type wideband splitters to split out the signal to up to 8 total SWM tuners.
There are also legacy ports (3 it appears) to run up to 3 legacy tuners.
You do *not* need the B-Band converters since the SWM has that function built in.

I also think you can diplex OTA into the SWM-8 but I am not positive on that. You *cannot* diplex OTA with any other switch to HR2x's for sure.



> I am also thinking that I would be better served if, rather then trying to talk tech with D*, I just tell them that I want to upgrade, but still keep my legacy Tivo's running....and then let them figure out what they need to satisfy that requirement.
> 
> Does that sound like a reasonable plan, or will that likely lead to multiple visits by the local installer before they get it right?
> 
> Brian


Actually I think this is always the best policy. Just act like you know nothing or near nothing. Tell them you want the HD upgrade and confirm that they will replace your dish, multiswitch (tell them you have one), and that you plan to keep all your current old legacy receivers active (or however many you plan). Then thing is that you don't need anything special in your setup it sounds so you should be just fine with the installer.

If you do want to go the SWM-8 route you will have to buy that on your own and then tell DirecTV that you want it installed with your upgrade. Also you could just put it in yourself after they are done with the upgrade, it's not that hard.


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## Matt L (Aug 13, 2000)

Yes, about the only way to get a SWM is to do it your self. I just picked up a dish on ebay and installed it and had it up and running in under an hour. The SWM system is great, really simplifies wiring. Aiming the dish was a breeze, just followed the onscreen info for setting, and had no need to tweak the settings with the fine tuning controls, had 95&#37; to 100% on most of the transponders. And the dish is able to support up to 8 tuners total, but they all have to be the new models, no TiVos, for that you will need the specialized switch.


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## BGLeduc (Aug 26, 2003)

Thanks to everyone. This has proven to be very educational.

I did find some good diagrams linked from Weaknees, so I now have a much better handle on the SWM vs. WB68 stuff.

FTR, my current install does not have a multi-switch, unless you consider the 4 outputs of the 3 horn dish to be sourced from a MS. All my Tivo's are fed straight from the outputs of my existing dish.

Having said that, I did order the free upgrade, which should take place tomorrow. My fingers are crossed that installer will have a clue! 

BTW, the CRS told me that the new Tivo should be here "soon". That's right. You heard it here first... maybe even fall, she said. That came straight from the mouth of a Tier I CSR, so it MUST be true . Imagine that! 

Brian


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Well, over at dbstalk, "soon" from DirecTV is a running joke. As for fall, did she say which year?


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## BGLeduc (Aug 26, 2003)

stevel said:


> Well, over at dbstalk, "soon" from DirecTV is a running joke. As for fall, did she say which year?


She did not even say which century.

Brian


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## chamelea (Feb 19, 2004)

stevel said:


> The page you reference is wrong. There are only two legacy outputs on the SWM-8.
> 
> 
> whitepelican said:
> ...


I've been snooping on this thread while researching the OP's same issues, 
and much appreciate the benefits of all _prior art_? 

FWIW, _the quoted dilemma _about legacy ports is explained on this page, 
a comparison between the SWM8 and the earlier SWM5 (discontinued).


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

My apologies - my SWM-8 indeed has three legacy outputs. I misremembered and had to go look for myself.


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