# Walking Dead -- "After" S04E09 -- OAD 02.09.14



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Herschel with an encore performance!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Carl's growing on me this season. He used to be kind of a waste of screen time, but I think he's been taking acting lessons. Or maybe just hanging out with these people has been good for him.

I had to laugh at the Herschel and Guv "yes they're really really REALLY dead" cameos.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Carl's growing on me this season. He used to be kind of a waste of screen time, but I think he's been taking acting lessons. Or maybe just hanging out with these people has been good for him...


I agree about Carl; I used to be one of the biggest Carl-bashers in earlier seasons, but he's gotten better all the way around...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

So who's been trimming the hedges in the chocolate pudding house? 

(I thought it must be an indication that somebody was living there, but I guess it was just lazy set dressing.)

I suppose if you're going to have Michonne-level anger issues, it's helpful to live in a world with a ready outlet for all that pent-up aggression.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

"It's for you..." Hahaha


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Excellent episode tonight!


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Excellent ending. I was so hoping Michonne would find Carl. They need to know if Judith is alive and all will be well in Z-land.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Beryl said:


> ...and all will be well in Z-land.


HA!!


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

112 oz of pudding!!!


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

I was kind of hoping that Michonne would find Carl's shoe. And give it to him when she found him at the end.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

These people need to learn how to talk. Was Rick trying to get killed? If his throat was too dry to talk, why not just lay where he was instead of lurching towards Carl like a walker while Carl points a gun at him? And why couldn't Michonne whisper that it was her instead of knocking and standing there quietly?


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Carl figured he'd try diabetes, maybe it doesn't attract walkers!


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

john4200 said:


> why couldn't Michonne whisper that it was her instead of knocking and standing there quietly?


Because she could see there was a peephole on the door.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Peter000 said:


> Because she could see there was a peephole on the door.


Very funny.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Heck, why didn't she just talk to them thru the window that she looked in. Knocking was more fun!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

betts4 said:


> Knocking was more fun!


I think that might be exactly it. Zombies don't knock, and she would have checked the street for zombies that might have been attracted by the (relatively small) noise. So I'll forgive it. It was a fun moment.


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## Vendikarr (Feb 24, 2004)

I loved that moment when Michonne realized she is really can't become dead inside, because she was the same as the walkers. She was just part of the herd at that point.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Vendikarr said:


> I loved that moment when Michonne realized she is really can't become dead inside, because she was the same as the walkers. She was just part of the herd at that point.


Seeing her "Walker-Twin" sealed the fate of the rest.

(I'm now craving some pudding.)


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

john4200 said:


> These people need to learn how to talk. Was Rick trying to get killed? If his throat was too dry to talk, why not just lay where he was instead of lurching towards Carl like a walker while Carl points a gun at him?


I had a small glimmer of hope that they were going to really mix things up and have Carl off his dad mistakenly thinking he was a walker.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

zordude said:


> I had a small glimmer of hope that they were going to really mix things up and have Carl off his dad mistakenly thinking he was a walker.


Yeah, speaking of people doing incredibly stupid things...next time, Dad, lead with "Carl."


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

I really like the stories for Michonne and Carl in this episode. Both started out feeling like they could do fine on their own but realizing throughout the episode that they needed the others. 

I was pretty powerful to see Michonne break down a little when she saw Rick and Carl. Probably the first emotion other than anger we have seen from her.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

I'm struck by how beautiful Danai Gurira is and it's always fun seeing Aldis Hodge in stuff.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Did we know before this that Michonne had a child? or was that just a fantasy dream type thing. 

I did love seeing her create her Walking dead dogs and using them again. It really is a good way to not get eaten.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

betts4 said:


> Did we know before this that Michonne had a child? or was that just a fantasy dream type .


I don't think we knew for sure, but didn't she have a strong reaction when she held baby Judith that led us to think she might have had a baby at one time?

I'm confused about the two men we see in the dream sequence. One is her boyfriend....who was the other? And did they go on to be her two original pets? Is that what we are to assume from the severed arms?


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

betts4 said:


> Did we know before this that Michonne had a child? or was that just a fantasy dream type thing.


Don't think so but I figured it with her emotional breakdown holding Judith.



Jstkiddn said:


> And did they go on to be her two original pets? Is that what we are to assume from the severed arms?


Yep. Also, I think she alluded to it once.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Jstkiddn said:


> I don't think we knew for sure, but didn't she have a strong reaction when she held baby Judith that led us to think she might have had a baby at one time?
> 
> I'm confused about the two men we see in the dream sequence. One is her boyfriend....who was the other? And did they go on to be her two original pets? Is that what we are to assume from the severed arms?


That all seems reasonable, but we'll just have to see when and if they reveal more.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I know I say this a lot, but Talking Dead is great with Nicetero (spelling?) on it...otherwise it is a complete waste of time.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Glad Carl got a taste of what life would be like without his dad!


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Jstkiddn said:


> I don't think we knew for sure, but didn't she have a strong reaction when she held baby Judith that led us to think she might have had a baby at one time?
> 
> I'm confused about the two men we see in the dream sequence. One is her boyfriend....who was the other? And did they go on to be her two original pets? Is that what we are to assume from the severed arms?


She did have a strong reaction holding Judith. One of the few/only ones we had seen so far. I remembered that but wasn't sure if she actually stated anything.

The two men - I figured either one or both her brothers. Maybe one a brother and one a friend.

I wonder how she figured out to make the "pets" in the first place I also wonder thru the last couple seasons why the group doesn't use the trick Rick used with Glenn in season one. Smearing the blood of a walker all over themselves to get past them.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Back to the original two walker pets....didn't she at one time tell Andrea something like "They were barely human when they were alive"......or something similar? 

For some reason I thought they were maybe her brothers.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

betts4 said:


> The two men - I figured either one or both her brothers. Maybe one a brother and one a friend.


I hope they aren't both her brothers, didn't one of them call her his lover?


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ...I had to laugh at the Herschel and Guv "yes they're really really REALLY dead" cameos.


First thing I thought of was this board! lol


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

zordude said:


> I hope they aren't both brothers, didn't one of them call her his lover?


Well those guys could be brothers and one was dating Michonne

Something like that is the vibe I got. Maybe all 3 were friends (no relation for any of them) and Michonne started dating one of them.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Jstkiddn said:


> Back to the original two walker pets....didn't she at one time tell Andrea something like "They were barely human when they were alive"......or something similar?...


Yeah...I certainly remember her saying that. At the time, I took it as they had done something very terrible to her. Interesting that we know now it was a lover and a friend.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

MikeMar said:


> Well those guys could be brothers and one was dating Michonne
> 
> Something like that is the vibe I got. Maybe all 3 were friends (no relation for any of them) and Michonne started dating one of them.


Corrected my post, i meant HER brothers (replying to betts)


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

zordude said:


> Corrected my post, i meant HER brothers (replying to betts)


LOL I forgot the Lover thing for a minute. Bet one was Lover and one was Brother. Lover may even be friend of Brother and then started Loving some Michonne.


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## BlueMerle (Jan 10, 2007)

Carl is getting a little less annoying but I have to admit I was kinda hoping that those 3 Zs would kill him. 

Really glad to see that they've decided to make Michonne a real human being. She's always been one of my favorites, but I hated that she was soo one dimensional. I really enjoyed the dream/flashback. 

Looks like another good season ahead.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

So from the one guys speech are we to assume he gave up on life and didn't want to see his kid grow up in this world? and he ended him then Michonne ended them?


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

Man eating 112 oz of chocolate pudding after not eating any type of dairy in forever must wreak havoc on your digestive system, moments like that must make you miss indoor plumbing.

Also I didn't get the "it's for you" line. Was it just a joke or was there more subtext to it?


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

DeDondeEs said:


> Man eating 112 oz of chocolate pudding after not eating any type of dairy in forever must wreak havoc on your digestive system, moments like that must make you miss indoor plumbing.


Yeah, I thought the same thing!!!

Gerry


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

DeDondeEs said:


> Man eating 112 oz of chocolate pudding after not eating any type of dairy in forever must wreak havoc on your digestive system, moments like that must make you miss indoor plumbing.
> 
> Also I didn't get the "it's for you" line. Was it just a joke or was there more subtext to it?


Isn't he surrounded by empty houses? You get one flush in each one, so you can use each bathroom twice


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Maui said:


> ...I was pretty powerful to see Michonne break down a little when she saw Rick and Carl. Probably the first emotion other than anger we have seen from her.


We actually saw her smile a few times in the first half of this season, so she's shown more emotion (outside anger) this season than ever before...


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Regarding who the original "pets" are...I usually don't watch Talking Dead, but I did last night and 


Spoiler



I believe they confirmed that Michonne's two original "pets" were her lover and his friend...


And I think a boy's plumbing can better handle 100+ oz of pudding that an older man...


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

DeDondeEs said:


> Man eating 112 oz of chocolate pudding after not eating any type of dairy in forever must wreak havoc on your digestive system, moments like that must make you miss indoor plumbing.
> 
> Also I didn't get the "it's for you" line. Was it just a joke or was there more subtext to it?


I think Michonne has bonded with Carl more than most of the others. There was an earlier episode where the two of them and Rick went into a town to check something out. Michonne went into a building crawling with walkers to get Carl something he wanted (was it the family picture Rick, Lori and Carl?)


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Maui said:


> I think Michonne has bonded with Carl more than most of the others. There was an earlier episode where the two of them and Rick went into a town to check something out. Michonne went into a building crawling with walkers to get Carl something he wanted (was it the family picture Rick, Lori and Carl?)


Just jogged my memory there, she brought him some comic books


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

DeDondeEs said:


> Man eating 112 oz of chocolate pudding after not eating any type of dairy in forever must wreak havoc on your digestive system, moments like that must make you miss indoor plumbing.
> 
> Also I didn't get the "it's for you" line. Was it just a joke or was there more subtext to it?


My thought was just who HAS a 112 oz can of pudding in their house? That seems the kind of thing you see at a school or church.

Actually those wouldn't be a bad place to scavenge.

Were they coming into a town? The houses looked like the suburbs of a small town with Main street and such further up the road.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

betts4 said:


> My thought was just who HAS a 112 oz can of pudding in their house? That seems the kind of thing you see at a school or church.


Whoever it was they didn't' want anyone else to have it because they put it way up on top of the kitchen cabinets. That would be interesting to see if sales of giant cans of pudding increase at Costco in the next few days.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

betts4 said:


> My thought was just who HAS a 112 oz can of pudding in their house? That seems the kind of thing you see at a school or church.


Whoever it was they didn't want anyone else to have it because they put it way up on top of the kitchen cabinets. That would be interesting to see if sales of giant cans of pudding increase at Costco in the next few days.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

betts4 said:


> My thought was just who HAS a 112 oz can of pudding in their house? That seems the kind of thing you see at a school or church.


True. Maybe the previous occupants of the house had scavenged the pudding from some such place and brought it back to the house. They never got a chance to eat it before they.......?


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Jstkiddn said:


> Back to the original two walker pets....didn't she at one time tell Andrea something like "They were barely human when they were alive"......or something similar?
> 
> For some reason I thought they were maybe her brothers.


That is what made me think she knew the two guys. I didn't think they were her brothers though.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Maui said:


> I think Michonne has bonded with Carl more than most of the others. There was an earlier episode where the two of them and Rick went into a town to check something out. Michonne went into a building crawling with walkers to get Carl something he wanted (was it the family picture Rick, Lori and Carl?)


Yes, it was the "Clear" episode when Carl shot Morgan.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Beryl said:


> That is what made me think she knew the two guys. I didn't think they were her brothers though.


I'm honestly not sure why I thought that.  After seeing this episode, my assumption was clearly wrong.

Now I'm very interested in hearing the rest of the story. This was her boyfriend and father of her child. What in the world did he do that would cause her to say that he deserved what he got? Did it have something to do with the child?

I'm sure they will explore that story line farther into the season and I will be looking forward to getting the answers. She has become my favorite character and I'll be glad to get a little of her backstory.


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## Tsiehta (Jul 22, 2002)

I don't know, you all seem to be rather forgiving of this episode and the continuation of the horrible Carl story line and stupidity. Where was he leading the two Walkers? Why didn't he look behind him?

Essentially all that for Rick to admit Carl is now a man? They could have made that leap in 10 minutes, and then spent the rest of the time exploring Michonne's story line, which was far more interesting. But no, just more Carl ineptitude.

What a sad way to limp back into the 2nd part of the season.


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## DUSlider (Apr 29, 2005)

I was yelling at the TV when Carl was leading the walkers, while walking backwards, not watching where he was going. Common Carl, you know the walkers are there, they are going to chase after you while you are in their sight until they get you and you can move faster than them by walking quickly or jogging. They aren't going to try and flank you or go some other route. Turn the heck around and watch where you're going.....


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I've been a big Carl supporter all along but I hope there's not another 30 minute Carlcentric segment any time soon. I ffwd through a good bit of Michonne and Carl's Excellent Adventures when they were just wandering.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Carl must have gotten the "watch where you're going" gene from Lori.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Tsiehta said:


> I don't know, you all seem to be rather forgiving of this episode and the continuation of the horrible Carl story line and stupidity. Where was he leading the two Walkers? Why didn't he look behind him?...


He WAS continually looking back as often as he could while leading the walkers (have you ever tried walking backwards for a long time?); I specifically noted how often he WAS checking behind him. However, how a walker could "sneak" up on him without him seeing it during one of his periodic "backward checks" is beyond me...


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Yeah, he was looking behind pretty constantly, so I'm not sure what you guys were watching. He probably should have turned around and walked forward while occasionally looking backward to make sure they were following him, but either way he's going to be walking/not looking for at least a bit. 

They made it "plausible" (barely) that a walker could still sneak up on him by having him change direction and head into the wooded area, and have the walker come out of some brush.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

DreadPirateRob said:


> They made it "plausible" (barely) that a walker could still sneak up on him by having him change direction and head into the wooded area, and have the walker come out of some brush.


Right. That was an improvement over many of the "walker magically appears" scenes they have done in the past.

But I agree with others that Carl was unbelievably stupid. He should have been jogging away from them quickly, then occasionally stopping and looking back to let them catch up. And certainly not approached any blind corners, risking getting surrounded.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Yeah, he was looking behind pretty constantly, so I'm not sure what you guys were watching. He probably should have turned around and walked forward while occasionally looking backward to make sure they were following him, but either way he's going to be walking/not looking for at least a bit.


He was having too much fun taunting the Walkers. 

In the world he lives in, though, it really doesn't matter how much he looks around. Time and time again, we've seen zombies appear out of nowhere to attack Our Heroes, even when a long shot a moment earlier showed nothing around. If it's time for them to be attacked, no amount of vigilance will protect them. 

If I were on this show and they suddenly went from a long shot of me in the middle of an empty field to a close-up, I'd be terrified of teleporting zombies.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ... teleporting zombies.


Now THERE'S an idea for a new Z show....


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

I still keep waiting for them to make a break for the GA coast and find a boat to sail/row/motor them out to an island where they could quickly eradicate all of the walkers and then live in peace.


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

DeDondeEs said:


> I still keep waiting for them to make a break for the GA coast and find a boat to sail/row/motor them out to an island where they could quickly eradicate all of the walkers and then live in peace.


But then they would find a hatch...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

zordude said:


> I had a small glimmer of hope that they were going to really mix things up and have Carl off his dad mistakenly thinking he was a walker.


Not a chance. Rick is too important of a character to go out in such a stupid way. Therefore, there was no tension in any of those scenes for me because I knew Rick was going to be just fine.



Jstkiddn said:


> I'm confused about the two men we see in the dream sequence. One is her boyfriend....who was the other? And did they go on to be her two original pets? Is that what we are to assume from the severed arms?


I realize everyone is saying that it's been confirmed that the two original "pets" were these two guys we saw in this episode, but I don't remember her original pets being black. Am I just not remembering right?

Edit: I can't find a good still from the actual show, but here is a EW cover that seems to indicate I am wrong:


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

I remember that her original pets were definitely black. I'm certain they weren't the same actors as were shown last night, but you wouldn't expect them to do that.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

betts4 said:


> My thought was just who HAS a 112 oz can of pudding in their house? That seems the kind of thing you see at a school or church.


My family got those big cans periodically.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Tsiehta said:


> I don't know, you all seem to be rather forgiving of this episode and the continuation of the horrible Carl story line and stupidity. Where was he leading the two Walkers? Why didn't he look behind him?


He was leading them away from his passed out father and their "secure" housing, knowing when he shot them that the noise would draw any others near by. You'll recall when he came out from where he killed the 3 he looked up and down the street to see if any more were attracted to the shots he fired.

It was actually decent strategic forethought on his part to do so.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Langree said:


> My family got those big cans periodically.


My mother had big cans.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Langree said:


> It was actually decent strategic forethought on his part to do so.


Good strategy, but terrible tactics.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Yeah, Carl was often dumb in this episode but so was I at his age and so was everybody else. 

I enjoyed the short scene of him sitting on the roof eating from the big can o' puddin' while the walker's arm groped for him out the window.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

I've never seen a 112oz can of pudding before this! I found some of the Carl, and even some of the Rick, stuff rather annoying. But more so, Rick for some reason. Also loved the direction with the pudding-eating on the roof scene.

some of the Carl stuff was actually pretty good. I enjoyed how he had just had enough of Rick and said straight out that he would be fine if Rick was dead. Then his adventures led him to realize he was wrong. Then, almost thinking Rick had died and turned and almost killing him. But when he stopped, exposed his neck, and said he couldn't, was rather brilliantly done.

I especially loved the Michonne flashback. I'm hoping we learn more and more. Love this character and love the actor who plays her. Enjoyed all the insight she provided on TD this week.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I too, wonder what exactly Carl was trying to do with the walkers. If it was just to get them away from the house....then he should have just smashed their skulls in. I thought he was up to something else.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

pmyers said:


> I too, wonder what exactly Carl was trying to do with the walkers. If it was just to get them away from the house....then he should have just smashed their skulls in.


I'm thinking Carl is not strong enough for that yet -- made clear during his pre-pudding rumble. He is good with a noisy gun though. I was glad to see him pick up that lawn lighting but he needed something a tad longer -- a short spear maybe. Is it too soon for him to learn to use a katana?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

So... in the world of The Walking Dead, are bones brittle or soft? That sword cutting through so many heads so easily was kind of a head scratcher for me.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Was the axe that Rick used in the store too short or he not strong enough? 

I think I was also surprised that once that walker was killed they didn't just hole up there for a day or so to get strength back. I know the house was nicer, but Rick was barely moving then.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> So... in the world of The Walking Dead, are bones brittle or soft? That sword cutting through so many heads so easily was kind of a head scratcher for me.


I'm no sword expert, but I suspect if they are as sharp as a razor, they could cut through most anything?


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> So... in the world of The Walking Dead, are bones brittle or soft? That sword cutting through so many heads so easily was kind of a head scratcher for me.


Zombies are decaying, which is why some of them seem much worse off than others, because they've been dead longer (in theory)


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Beryl said:


> I'm thinking Carl is not strong enough for that yet -- made clear during his pre-pudding rumble. He is good with a noisy gun though. I was glad to see him pick up that lawn lighting but he needed something a tad longer -- a short spear maybe. Is it too soon for him to learn to use a katana?


What I didn't understand is why Carl didn't pick up the solar light "stake" and stab the zombie after his gun ran out of bullets. Didn't he have it with him when he went upstairs?


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## Vendikarr (Feb 24, 2004)

betts4 said:


> Was the axe that Rick used in the store too short or he not strong enough?
> 
> I think I was also surprised that once that walker was killed they didn't just hole up there for a day or so to get strength back. I know the house was nicer, but Rick was barely moving then.


They've learned that they have to fear people just as much, if not more, than walkers. That store was too exposed. Holding up in a house, which was more concealed, is a better idea.


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## timr_42 (Oct 14, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> Herschel with an encore performance!


There was a show on Fox(I think) years ago titled "Herman's Head". They could have started a WD spinoff "Herschel's Head"..


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Whatever that thing Michonne uses to slash heads off is, that's what they all need to get and learn to use. No noise, no arrows to recover or replace, and she never misses. It's been what, a year now and nobody else is as bad ass as Michonne. Teach a class, girl.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

A Katana is a must have in a zombie apocolypse!


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> So... in the world of The Walking Dead, are bones brittle or soft? That sword cutting through so many heads so easily was kind of a head scratcher for me.


I thought Kirkman had said that one of the effects of the zombie plague was to make bones softer.

People shoving small knives quickly through skulls is just not possible without the skull becoming about the consistency of watermelon, I think.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

timr_42 said:


> There was a show on Fox(I think) years ago titled "Herman's Head". They could have started a WD spinoff "Herschel's Head"..


It was HILARIOUS when they unveiled Hershel's "head" on TD and they "activated" it....


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Ereth said:


> I thought Kirkman had said that one of the effects of the zombie plague was to make bones softer.
> 
> People shoving small knives quickly through skulls is just not possible without the skull becoming about the consistency of watermelon, I think.


Aha. Thanks and good point.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

pmyers said:


> A Katana is a must have in a zombie apocolypse!


Agreed. Carol also had the right idea with knives.

The woman in 28 Days Later used a sword which didn't make sense because one drop of blood could infect you. It appears that only death turns you into a "Walker".


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

stellie93 said:


> Whatever that thing Michonne uses to slash heads off is, that's what they all need to get and learn to use. No noise, no arrows to recover or replace, and she never misses. It's been what, a year now and nobody else is as bad ass as Michonne. Teach a class, girl.


But they never show her sharpening/honing it. It's a Ginzu!


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

stellie93 said:


> Whatever that thing Michonne uses to slash heads off is, that's what they all need to get and learn to use. No noise, no arrows to recover or replace, and she never misses. It's been what, a year now and nobody else is as bad ass as Michonne. Teach a class, girl.


Totally! If there were one person I'd want on my side, it would be Michonne.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Beryl said:


> It appears that only death turns you into a "Walker".


Or a bite.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

heySkippy said:


> Or a bite.


Yah. That too.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Beryl said:


> Yah. That too.


Well, the bite doesn't turn you into a Walker. It just kills you.

THEN you turn into a Walker.


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## BlueMerle (Jan 10, 2007)

pmyers said:


> A Katana is a must have in a zombie apocolypse!


I doubt that I'd keep one. Getting an actual Katana is not an easy feat, and learning to use one, properly, is even harder. If you weren't already an expert with the Katana prior to the ZA, you won't survive long enough to become one afterward if that's your primary weapon.

From Zombie Wikia:



> As he has stated at public speakings, the katana is the favored weapon of Max Brooks, writer of The Zombie Survival Guide. Brooks claims that until the lightsaber from Star Wars is made real, the katana is the best melee weapon to use against the undead. *Many actual sword experts and aficionados disagree with this gushing assessment.*


Emphasis mine.

In the Melee weapons category I'd take a baseball bat with nails as my first choice. I'm already very familiar with swinging a baseball bat.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

BlueMerle said:


> In the Melee weapons category I'd take a baseball bat with nails as my first choice. I'm already very familiar with swinging a baseball bat.


Or you could wrap it in barbed wire.

And name it "Lucille."


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Based on The Last of Us... the most durable melee weapon is a child-sized knife, followed by a machete, then a pipe. A bat with a blade modification is only good for one or two enemies.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Beryl said:


> The woman in 28 Days Later used a sword which didn't make sense because one drop of blood could infect you. It appears that only death turns you into a "Walker".


There's no worry about infection in the TWD-verse because it's been established that everyone is already infected, and that death is the triggering event in the virus becoming active.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

The best weapon for a zombie apocalypse would be a ranged melee weapon - something that you can use to strike without having to be within your target's reach. 

It would have to have some heft to it, since you can't really rely on the magically weakened zombie skull from the virus in TWD. In theory the katana is perfect because it has enough heft to cleave through a skull, but you have to know how to use it.

The Lobo from the WWZ book is pretty genius - an infantry trenching tool with the sides sharpened to a point (or with axe blades welded on the sides?). Being able to stab *and* slash is ideal, and the lobo does that. Weight is always a concern though.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I think the best weapon would be a .22 caliber semi-automatic rifle with a 50 round magazine. Shorten the barrel a bit and affix a silencer and you've got a light and quiet zombie head shooter.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

heySkippy said:


> Or a bite.


But a bite only turns you if it kills you, right? If you get bit bad enough you get sick and die, but like with Hershel's leg, if you survive you're ok. I guess since they're all infected anyway, it doesn't matter how much zombie gunk you get on you or in you.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

stellie93 said:


> But a bite only turns you if it kills you, right? If you get bit bad enough you get sick and die, but like with Hershel's leg, if you survive you're ok. I guess since they're all infected anyway, it doesn't matter how much zombie gunk you get on you or in you.


The bites do seem to be fatal, however. Herschel was only saved by cutting off his leg before the infection (bite infection, not zombie-causing infection) spread past it.

Have we seen anybody survive a zombie bite without drastic treatment (i.e, amputation)?


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## BlueMerle (Jan 10, 2007)

heySkippy said:


> I think the best weapon would be a .22 caliber semi-automatic rifle with a 50 round magazine. Shorten the barrel a bit and affix a silencer and you've got a light and quiet zombie head shooter.


In a perfect world, yes. In order, the best weapons would be (imo):


Long gun
Shotgun
Handgun
Projectile (bow and arrow, crossbow, slingshot)
Melee

The problem is ammo. If you had a very large supply pre ZA and if you were able to ride out the initial waves at home then firearms are your best bet.

Truthfully, you'd better save your ammo for other people, they're going to be your biggest threat. Especially in the beginning.

You'd better find a melee weapon that you like and you're good with. There's no guarantee that you'll be able to ride out the whole thing at home and you certainly won't be able to carry much ammo or many guns for that matter.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Best weapon would be a survivalist style bunker with years' worth of food and water.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Have we seen anybody survive a zombie bite without drastic treatment (i.e, amputation)?


I don't think so.
And we watched Jim die a slow and painful death from a bite that didn't kill him initially.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

I'd go for a shotgun or rifle with a modified bayonet (modified so it can not only lunge but also be swung like a club with spikes on the side). Also a short sword or long knife in case the bayonet gets hung up on a walker and I need to finish it.

But really, I think any combination of a spear to immobilize or slow down the walker (if you miss the kill thrust) and a short sword or long knife or maybe a spiked mace would be a good choice unless you are highly skilled with a sword.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

I think you guys need to watch the Mythbusters Zombie episode. Guns lose over the good old Axe: http://tv.yahoo.com/blogs/tv-news/mythbusters--send-some-zombie-myths--walking--223925193.html


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## BlueMerle (Jan 10, 2007)

zalusky said:


> I think you guys need to watch the Mythbusters Zombie episode. Guns lose over the good old Axe: http://tv.yahoo.com/blogs/tv-news/mythbusters--send-some-zombie-myths--walking--223925193.html


The guns aren't for killing the zombies. They're for killing the living.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

zalusky said:


> I think you guys need to watch the Mythbusters Zombie episode. Guns lose over the good old Axe: http://tv.yahoo.com/blogs/tv-news/mythbusters--send-some-zombie-myths--walking--223925193.html


That was one of the worst Mythbusters episodes I have seen. If you are being attacked by a herd of zombies, the worst thing to do is stand out in the open and avoid leaving a circular area. That is just stupid.


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## crazywater (Mar 7, 2001)

I'm sorry but the pets thing makes no sense to me at all. How does simply walking with two pets keep the other zombies off of you? Smearing the blood/guts on you makes more sense than simply dragging two hobbled zombies along with you.


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## BlueMerle (Jan 10, 2007)

crazywater said:


> I'm sorry but the pets thing makes no sense to me at all. How does simply walking with two pets keep the other zombies off of you? Smearing the blood/guts on you makes more sense than simply dragging two hobbled zombies along with you.


Yeah, not to mention that just because the two pets have had their arms and lower jaw hacked off that wouldn't stop them from still trying to attack her. They're Zombies, they don't know they have no arms or a lower jaw! 

Honestly though, I have no problem suspending disbelief in this case. The very first time we saw Michonne with her two original pets was a stunning scene. It makes her look more of a bada$$ and it serves to further the storyline/plot.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

BlueMerle said:


> Yeah, not to mention that just because the two pets have had their arms and lower jaw hacked off that wouldn't stop them from still trying to attack her. They're Zombies, they don't know they have no arms or a lower jaw!


I can't remember where I read/heard an explanation of sorts about this. Something about when they lose the ability to feed they lose the desire?

Yeah, I agree. Still sounds lame, but like you I don't care. Michonne is still my favorite.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Jstkiddn said:


> I can't remember where I read/heard an explanation of sorts about this. Something about when they lose the ability to feed they lose the desire?
> 
> Yeah, I agree. Still sounds lame, but like you I don't care. Michonne is still my favorite.


iirc that's how they explained it when she first appeared.

Also that they "react" when other dead enter the area, so she used them as an early warning system.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

crazywater said:


> I'm sorry but the pets thing makes no sense to me at all. How does simply walking with two pets keep the other zombies off of you? Smearing the blood/guts on you makes more sense than simply dragging two hobbled zombies along with you.


I was thinking the same thing while watching that scene. I could see if she kept them right next to her. Hiding the scent kind of like smearing yourself with blood/guts, but the way they showed her just walking right next to the zombie version of herself and there was no reaction until she killed one of them made no sense. Why can't they all do the Shaun of the dead thing and walk among them pretending to be dead? You HAVE to have two zombies tied to yourself by rope? Looks cool though and I bet that is the actual reason it came about everything else was made up to justify it.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

When I said the Katana was a must have, I didn't mean by itself. But for close melee, I wouldn't want anything else. I wouldn't trust bashing power from a bat.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

crazywater said:


> I'm sorry but the pets thing makes no sense to me at all. How does simply walking with two pets keep the other zombies off of you? Smearing the blood/guts on you makes more sense than simply dragging two hobbled zombies along with you.





Test said:


> I was thinking the same thing while watching that scene. I could see if she kept them right next to her. Hiding the scent kind of like smearing yourself with blood/guts, but the way they showed her just walking right next to the zombie version of herself and there was no reaction until she killed one of them made no sense. Why can't they all do the Shaun of the dead thing and walk among them pretending to be dead? You HAVE to have two zombies tied to yourself by rope? Looks cool though and I bet that is the actual reason it came about everything else was made up to justify it.


Apparently the magic deterrent must be in the rope or chain between the "pets" and Michonne because that's the only difference between her walking among walkers with her "pets" and her walking among walkers by herself. Only when she dropped the ropes and broke the magical connection did she became visible to the walkers again.

Or maybe Michonne is invisible when she wants to be.

When she found Rick and Carl, she looked at them through the window for a while and they never even saw her even though she was right in front of them. I know they wouldn't have necessarily recognized her because the curtains were pulled, but there was a decent gap where they should have noticed something suddenly blocking the light - unless she was invisible.


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

Jstkiddn said:


> I can't remember where I read/heard an explanation of sorts about this. Something about when they lose the ability to feed they lose the desire?
> 
> Yeah, I agree. Still sounds lame, but like you I don't care. Michonne is still my favorite.





Langree said:


> iirc that's how they explained it when she first appeared.
> 
> Also that they "react" when other dead enter the area, so she used them as an early warning system.


Yes, that is also how I remember it!

Gerry


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

scandia101 said:


> Apparently the magic deterrent must be in the rope or chain between the "pets" and Michonne because that's the only difference between her walking among walkers with her "pets" and her walking among walkers by herself. Only when she dropped the ropes and broke the magical connection did she became visible to the walkers again.
> 
> Or maybe Michonne is invisible when she wants to be.
> 
> When she found Rick and Carl, she looked at them through the window for a while and they never even saw her even though she was right in front of them. I know they wouldn't have necessarily recognized her because the curtains were pulled, but there was a decent gap where they should have noticed something suddenly blocking the light - unless she was invisible.


I think a lot of it has to do with the concept that zombies rely on other zombies to determine when there is something worth going after. So Michonne's pets don't go after her because they can't. Then another zombie goes by and assumes there is no fresh meat to be had because the two zombies already there aren't going after it. And then as others join the herd, that same "thinking" prevails. It was only when Michonne stopped acting like one of the zombies that they did a new "calculation" and assessed that she wasn't one of them.


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## BlueMerle (Jan 10, 2007)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think a lot of it has to do with the concept that zombies rely on other zombies to determine when there is something worth going after. So Michonne's pets don't go after her because they can't. Then another zombie goes by and assumes there is no fresh meat to be had because the two zombies already there aren't going after it. And then as others join the herd, that same "thinking" prevails. It was only when Michonne stopped acting like one of the zombies that they did a new "calculation" and assessed that she wasn't one of them.


I think you're attributing a bit too much 'thinking' ability to the zombies. We're talking about a group that finds a shut door a challenge. A locked door is an impenetrable barrier and they have no concept of 'breaking glass' to gain entry.

I don't think they do any 'calculations' beyond "brains". 

Hollywood has to have some means to advance the storyline/plot or make one person seem as though they're endowed with 'badassery'. Science or reality usually has nothing to do with that.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

BlueMerle said:


> I think you're attributing a bit too much 'thinking' ability to the zombies. We're talking about a group that finds a shut door a challenge. A locked door is an impenetrable barrier and they have no concept of 'breaking glass' to gain entry.
> 
> I don't think they do any 'calculations' beyond "brains".
> 
> Hollywood has to have some means to advance the storyline/plot or make one person seem as though they're endowed with 'badassery'. Science or reality usually has nothing to do with that.


That's why I put "thinking" and "calculations" in quotes. They're not actually thinking, but I do think that in the world of TWD, the walkers are taking cues from the other walkers around them, and when the walkers closest to Michonne are not going after her, that is a signal to all other walkers that there is nothing there to go after. Thus, they don't even notice her, just like they don't really notice other walkers.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

DevdogAZ said:


> That's why I put "thinking" and "calculations" in quotes. They're not actually thinking, but I do think that in the world of TWD, the walkers are taking cues from the other walkers around them, and when the walkers closest to Michonne are not going after her, that is a signal to all other walkers that there is nothing there to go after. Thus, they don't even notice her, just like they don't really notice other walkers.


Which does not work as an explanation, since the closest walker to Michonne in a couple scenes was one of the herd, not her pets. She would need to keep her pets on a *very* short leash for your explanation to work.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

This does bring to my mind's eye a double yoke with enough distance between the ends for someone to walk between. In a walker-infested world you could go into business making "cars" - a harness set that surrounds you with "safe" walkers, allowing you to travel the roads in relative safety!


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

heySkippy said:


> This does bring to my mind's eye a double yoke with enough distance between the ends for someone to walk between. In a walker-infested world you could go into business making "cars" - a harness set that surrounds you with "safe" walkers, allowing you to travel the roads in relative safety!


....and you could be paid with a new form of currency - giant cans of chocolate pudding!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

john4200 said:


> Which does not work as an explanation, since the closest walker to Michonne in a couple scenes was one of the herd, not her pets. She would need to keep her pets on a *very* short leash for your explanation to work.


Robert Kirkman, who wrote this episode, created the show, and is probably as high up as you can go without being the showrunner, lives in LA, as does the writing staff. I have on several occasions suspected that there's a disconnect between what goes on in the LA writer's room and what goes on on the Georgia sets & locations...either situations where the writer writes something without thikning about how it would block out and the director doesn't fix it, or the director doesn't understand or get some element of the script. This might be such a case...the writer (Kirkman) has a notion of how the pets work as zombie repellent (he also wrote the comic story in which they first appeared), but the director doesn't know and/or care, and just shoots to be cool.

I've always wondered about shows that are written in LA and shot in Vancouver, and how they get around the geographic disconnect; do the writers have a representative on the set? Do they write extremely detailed instructions as to how certain scenes should be filmed? Etc. And I've always suspected that either WD doesn't have such safeguards, or they don't work.

(The scenes I've noticed in the past usually involve geography...zombies attacking out of nowhere in the middle of a field, somebody in a car tracking somebody on foot with no apparent way of telling where they are; etc. As if they don't take the script into account when choosing locations, and then don't fix the scenes when shooting them.)


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Early in the episode Rick made a big deal about telling Carl not to waste bullets. That was after Carl uses one to kill the "do what I couldn't do" zombie which Rick was trying to use the axe on. He (Rick) said something like "one bullet can make a difference".

So... who else thought, when Carl was being overrun by 3 zombies, that he was going to come up one bullet short?  I sure did. 

...

I agree that "sick Rick appearing to be a zombie" was a bad contrivance made for dramatic purposes. No need to go there.

...

The zombie that looked like Michone (sp?)... that was simply her imagination. Right?


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

jradosh said:


> The zombie that looked like Michone (sp?)... that was simply her imagination. Right?


Talking dead response to that



Spoiler



They said she just came across one that looked like her and it snapped her out of her funk, she realized she didn't want to be dead yet. So I'd say real, not in her head


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

MikeMar said:


> Talking dead response to that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But the first time she 'saw' the doppelganger zombie, she looked a second time and realized it was a white woman zombie.

I think it was just her imagination. If it wasn't, then they did a poor job with continuity/direction. Go back and watch the first time she sees the Michone zombie and tell me if I'm wrong.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

jradosh said:


> But the first time she 'saw' the doppelganger zombie, she looked a second time and realized it was a white woman zombie.
> 
> I think it was just her imagination. If it wasn't, then they did a poor job with continuity/direction. Go back and watch the first time she sees the Michone zombie and tell me if I'm wrong.


It appeared that way to me, too.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

jradosh said:


> Early in the episode Rick made a big deal about telling Carl not to waste bullets. That was after Carl uses one to kill the "do what I couldn't do" zombie which Rick was trying to use the axe on. He (Rick) said something like "one bullet can make a difference".
> 
> So... who else thought, when Carl was being overrun by 3 zombies, that he was going to come up one bullet short?  I sure did.


 *raises hand*



jradosh said:


> I agree that "sick Rick appearing to be a zombie" was a bad contrivance made for dramatic purposes. No need to go there.


 I don't think it was just a contrivance. It forced Carl to face the realization that he couldn't do it by himself after all. He, basically, gave up: if Rick was dead then he felt he might as well just die right there because he wouldn't make it.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

jradosh said:


> I agree that "sick Rick appearing to be a zombie" was a bad contrivance made for dramatic purposes. No need to go there.
> Right?


That was the whole point of the episode. Everything led up to that point. Carl being cocky and thinking the whole season he would have made the tough decisions and save the group. This whole episode was him making decisions on his own and barely making it. At the end when HE perceived Rick was turning HE decided he couldn't do it and wanted to give up. It's a cathartic change moment for him. We saw the moment and the episode mostly from HIS point of view. The director even said it was about him giving up.

The problem is a lot of viewers come in with the baggage of not liking Carl and therefore discount his story and anything about him.

They could have shown the scene from Ricks point of view barely being able to speak and trying to tell Carl to not shoot him but that would not have conveyed Carl's moment.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

john4200 said:


> Which does not work as an explanation, since the closest walker to Michonne in a couple scenes was one of the herd, not her pets. She would need to keep her pets on a *very* short leash for your explanation to work.


As I said, the walkers make their "assessment" of whether there is anything in the area worth chasing based on the other walkers around. So when that closest walker to Michonne first encountered the group, it saw a bunch of zombies ambling along, not chasing anything, and therefore it also had no reason to chase anything. Since nothing about that assessment changed even when the walker got close to Michonne, there was no need to alter its behavior. Only when Michonne changed her behavior and made it clear to the walkers that she wasn't one of them, did they have to "re-assess" the situation and determine that she was an appropriate target.



jradosh said:


> But the first time she 'saw' the doppelganger zombie, she looked a second time and realized it was a white woman zombie.
> 
> I think it was just her imagination. If it wasn't, then they did a poor job with continuity/direction. Go back and watch the first time she sees the Michone zombie and tell me if I'm wrong.


It wasn't just her imagination. It was simply poor editing. In that next scene, when she looks over and sees the white woman, the camera then pulls back and you see the walker with dreadlocks walking behind the white woman.












jradosh said:


> Early in the episode Rick made a big deal about telling Carl not to waste bullets. That was after Carl uses one to kill the "do what I couldn't do" zombie which Rick was trying to use the axe on. He (Rick) said something like "one bullet can make a difference".
> 
> So... who else thought, when Carl was being overrun by 3 zombies, that he was going to come up one bullet short?  I sure did.


Me three.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

I know I'm probably in the minority on this, but this episode was one of the most boring hours of television I've ever watched. 

Rick takes a nap. Michonne wanders aimlessly. Carl eats pudding. 

There wasn't any suspense, as I was almost certain all three of these people would be fine and be together by the end of the episode. It felt like filler material thrown in to position us for the story that will happen in another couple of episodes. Next week's episode looks a little more entertaining.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

madscientist said:


> *raises hand*
> 
> I don't think it was just a contrivance. It forced Carl to face the realization that he couldn't do it by himself after all. He, basically, gave up: if Rick was dead then he felt he might as well just die right there because he wouldn't make it.


That was my impression also. He was pretty much done with it all. After he realized he could not head-kill his father, he just turned his head to let him have at it.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

smbaker said:


> I know I'm probably in the minority on this, but this episode was one of the most boring hours of television I've ever watched. Rick takes a nap. Michonne wanders aimlessly. Carl eats pudding. There wasn't any suspense, as I was almost certain all three of these people would be fine and be together by the end of the episode. It felt like filler material thrown in to position us for the story that will happen in another couple of episodes. Next week's episode looks a little more entertaining.


I think this episode was given over completely for character development....of Carl and Michonne. The action and the physical things didn't move very far along, but we see them change emotionally. That's sort of hard to show during non-stop zombie battles. I think it was well done.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Yeah, I think it's a great setup for whatever this half of the season will entail.

Glad they did this one, really baselines what the new normal for them is (out of the prison)


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

DevdogAZ said:


> As I said, the walkers make their "assessment" of whether there is anything in the area worth chasing based on the other walkers around. So when that closest walker to Michonne first encountered the group, it saw a bunch of zombies ambling along, not chasing anything, and therefore it also had no reason to chase anything. Since nothing about that assessment changed even when the walker got close to Michonne, there was no need to alter its behavior.


So now you are getting back to the problem someone else pointed out. You are assuming the walkers are rather smart. This explanation requires that they remember something that happened some hours ago: Walker is right by Michonne, mmmmm, smell yummy fresh meat! But wait, when I first saw her 2 hours ago those other walkers were closer and they did not eat her, so she must not be good to eat. I'll ignore her.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

I think everyone is giving too much thought to the walker's awareness and ability to think.

The way I see it, it's nothing more than animal instinct.

Just like if one deer throws up it's tail the other deer will instantly be on alert. Or how those huge flocks of birds or schools of fish seem to move together as one huge organism.

None of it requires thought. It just is.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Jstkiddn said:


> I think everyone is giving too much thought to the walker's awareness and ability to think.
> 
> The way I see it, it's nothing more than animal instinct.


So, the instinct here is: mmmmm, I smell yummy fresh meat. I will eat it!

Except, walkers right next to Michonne (closer than her pets) do not eat the yummy fresh meat.

There is no plausible in-story explanation. The out of story explanations sound plausible (do it just because it looks cool, or some disconnect between writing and directing)


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

We have seen that smell is very important for the walkers. People have temporarily gotten away with disguising themselves with walker guts and blood until it rained. If she were standing close enough, they might not smell her. But that doesn't work in this scene -- just possibly in the general "how do her pets work" sense. How things occurred here was unclear. Probably just a plot hole created by directing choices.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

john4200 said:


> Except, walkers right next to Michonne (closer than her pets) do not eat the yummy fresh meat.


If she looks, acts, smells, and sounds like a walker, then why would the walkers attack her? Their senses appear to be much duller than ours, so blending in should not be that difficult. The bigger question to me is why everyone in the series doesn't do what Michonne does. Her technique seems to work well.

I think it's blending in is more about behavior than anything else. When people are swarmed, it's usually either when they're engaged in combat, or when they're fleeing in fear. Lots of animals seem to be able to sense fear by visual behavior cues.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

smbaker said:


> If she looks, acts, smells, and sounds like a walker, then why would the walkers attack her?


Because she does *not* smell like a walker, and walkers supposedly distinguish other walkers from fresh meat by their sense of smell.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I thought this was probably one of THEE best Walking Dead episodes thus far.

Put me in the camp of Carl haters who liked him.

When Carl came across the zombie that took his shoe they SO caught be off guard I jumped up and accidentally bit my lip.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

I'll probably have to go back and watch this ep again, but there was very little conversation between Rick and Carl about Judith. From my recollection right now, there was just one mention by Carl? I didn't catch a feeling if they think or know she's dead, but they sure didn't seem to act like they weren't sure if she was alive.

Anybody get a feeling one way or another (from the show, not other sources) as to Judith's fate yet? They just didn't seem too concerned about her.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

How much time has passed since the prison and what we saw in the new episode? From the looks of ricks face, I think not much. They probably haven't really had time to process anything about Judith.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

JLucPicard said:


> I'll probably have to go back and watch this ep again, but there was very little conversation between Rick and Carl about Judith. From my recollection right now, there was just one mention by Carl? I didn't catch a feeling if they think or know she's dead, but they sure didn't seem to act like they weren't sure if she was alive.


I got the distinct impression they think she is dead - 
- but I did think boy o boy Rick doesn't care really all that much - it's almost like she was an afterthought.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Cainebj said:


> I got the distinct impression they think she is dead -
> - but I did think boy o boy Rick doesn't care really all that much - it's almost like she was an afterthought.


I wouldn't say that. We watch the shows a week at a time but in their world there is no week between all this.

Also there was a lot of carnage going on and there are many people he has no idea what happened to. He was also severely beaten. He has barely been coherent since it all happened. I would simply put him in the shock category.

Just like us watching most of them are in the dark for now.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

jradosh said:


> So... who else thought, when Carl was being overrun by 3 zombies, that he was going to come up one bullet short?  I sure did.


Yeah I figured they were going for something there but I don't think it ended up really mattering. I think it would have been cool if the episode followed Carl using bullets on the walkers he comes across throughout, then when he thinks Rick has turned he closes his eyes, pulls the trigger and CLICK, no more bullets, resulting in a major WHEEEW moment. But then that would negate the whole point of the scene which was Carl _not _being able to pull the trigger, etc... I wonder if the "bullet" mantra is gonna pay off in some future episode.

I was OK with the episode, but I'm really looking forward to next week. This one was very sleepy and only focused on a few people - next weeks should get into what happened with everyone else. I think the way the ended the mid-season finale with everyone being split up was a great idea, it gives them a bunch of stuff to mine for the rest of the season, and solves one of the biggest complains people have, which is the group staying in one location for too long (the farm, the prison). Now it's a story of people trying to survive in the wild and, hopefully, be reunited eventually.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

JLucPicard said:


> I'll probably have to go back and watch this ep again, but there was very little conversation between Rick and Carl about Judith. From my recollection right now, there was just one mention by Carl? I didn't catch a feeling if they think or know she's dead, but they sure didn't seem to act like they weren't sure if she was alive.
> 
> Anybody get a feeling one way or another (from the show, not other sources) as to Judith's fate yet? They just didn't seem too concerned about her.


 They definitely think she's dead, based on their reaction from the last episode and also this one.



Jstkiddn said:


> How much time has passed since the prison and what we saw in the new episode? From the looks of ricks face, I think not much. They probably haven't really had time to process anything about Judith.


 I think this episode started later the same day as the previous episode.



zalusky said:


> Also there was a lot of carnage going on and there are many people he has no idea what happened to. He was also severely beaten. He has barely been coherent since it all happened. I would simply put him in the shock category.


 I agree with this, but I think that's why there's been no conversation about Judith. They both think she's dead. They can't talk about it yet, especially Rick.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

john4200 said:


> Because she does *not* smell like a walker, and walkers supposedly distinguish other walkers from fresh meat by their sense of smell.


She just dismembered and de-jawed two walkers, tied them to a rope, and hauled them with her. She doesn't have access to a shower. Why would she _not_ smell like walker?

Furthermore, what is the rationale for the walkers having a well developed sense of smell? Is this supported by the graphic novels? They're dead reanimated humans. If anything, they should have a _worse_ sense of smell. They didn't suddenly evolve wet rhinariums like a dog.

Everything I've seen in the series leads me to believe that the walkers recognize patterns of behavior of humans. Human noises. Human movement. Human activity. Noise is most often what the survivors are concerned about.

A human who acts like a walker and masks her scent using walkers should be able to blend in.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

smbaker said:


> She just dismembered and de-jawed two walkers, tied them to a rope, and hauled them with her. She doesn't have access to a shower. Why would she _not_ smell like walker?


You are missing the obvious. Because she is not a walker. She is alive. And it has been established on this show that walkers can tell the difference. Walkers are not smart. They obviously do not recognize "patterns of behavior".


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

john4200 said:


> You are missing the obvious. Because she is not a walker. She is alive. And it has been established on this show that walkers can tell the difference. Walkers are not smart. They obviously do not recognize "patterns of behavior".


It was established in the first season that if humans have walker smell all over them, the walkers will ignore them. (Rick et al, trapped in a building in Atlanta and they rubbed walker on themselves to escape?)

Anyway I know you're a nitpicker about that kind of stuff, but it's been well documented that in that universe that is how it works (as well as with the "pets" masking Michonne). Accept it or not, but it's not going to change.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

It could also be a combination of smell and behavior. Meaning even if they had smeared zombie guts all overthemselves but still acted like a human (say started running or yelling) that the zombies would still be attracted to them even with no human smell.


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## BlueMerle (Jan 10, 2007)

mrdazzo7 said:


> I think the way the ended the mid-season finale with everyone being split up was a great idea, it gives them a bunch of stuff to mine for the rest of the season, and solves one of the biggest complains people have, which is the group staying in one location for too long (the farm, the prison). Now it's a story of people trying to survive in the wild and, hopefully, be reunited eventually.


Yeah, I agree. I suspect we'll see several different story lines going forward. I think it will help keep the show fresh.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I'm still interested if they had a pre-arranged "bug out" location that they are all trying to get to or if it will be a season of random wandering. I'm hoping for the first.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

pmyers said:


> I'm still interested if they had a pre-arranged "bug out" location that they are all trying to get to or if it will be a season of random wandering. I'm hoping for the first.


From a reality standpoint, it would make more sense for them to have a pre-arranged location. But from a TV writer's standpoint of trying to create drama, it would create more story opportunities for them to remain separated for a while rather than quickly meet up.


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## Barmat (Jun 1, 2001)

I seem to remember them telling each other to meet at a prearranged spot when they were loading the bus. I could have been projecting misremembering.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

john4200 said:


> Walkers are not smart. They obviously do not recognize "patterns of behavior".


One does not have to be smart to practice pattern recognition. It's an ability hardwired into the brain, and the walkers still have some brain function.

Regardless, I've forgot the tedious pointlessness of arguing with you. Once again, I declare you the winner in this argument, because I just don't give a **** enough to continue.



Barmat said:


> I seem to remember them telling each other to meet at a prearranged spot when they were loading the bus.


How many people made it out in the bus?

Di we figure out what happened to the baby? I know there was speculation that one of the other survivors picked her up, but I don't recall if we've been shown any evidence yet.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Peter000 said:


> Anyway I know you're a nitpicker about that kind of stuff, but it's been well documented that in that universe that is how it works (as well as with the "pets" masking Michonne). Accept it or not, but it's not going to change.


I know you are a nonsense poster about this kind of stuff, but I have been arguing that the show has established that walkers recognize fresh meat by smell. But in this latest episode, several walkers right next to Michonne failed to recognize fresh meat by smell. So obviously it *has* changed. Try to keep up.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

smbaker said:


> One does not have to be smart to practice pattern recognition.


False. Pattern recognition requires intelligence.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

john4200 said:


> I know you are a nonsense poster about this kind of stuff, ...


Don't care. Argument is stuck in and endless loop. No longer participating. You win by default.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

smbaker said:


> Don't care. Argument is stuck in and endless loop. No longer participating.


You contradict yourself. Again. It is strange how you start discussing something and then throw a hissy fit, like a 13 year old girl. Also, you were responding to a post that was not talking to you. If you want to discuss something, you need to pay attention.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

john4200 said:


> You contradict yourself. Again. It is strange how you start discussing something and then throw a hissy fit. Are you a 13 year old girl?


This page intentionally left blank.


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## BlueMerle (Jan 10, 2007)

DevdogAZ said:


> From a reality standpoint, it would make more sense for them to have a pre-arranged location. *But from a TV writer's standpoint of trying to create drama, it would create more story opportunities for them to remain separated for a while rather than quickly meet up.*


I suspect that's exactly why they're doing this. Well that or it's great leverage for the production company for any contracts that may be up for renewal. /cynic


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

smbaker said:


> Don't care. Argument is stuck in and endless loop. No longer participating. You win by default.


I have exactly 1 person on ignore....(guess who). This board became WAY more enjoyable since that day!


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

pmyers said:


> I have exactly 1 person on ignore....(guess who). This board became WAY more enjoyable since that day!


But then you see all the replies still...


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> But then you see all the replies still...


Only when somebody quotes him...and that's pretty rare.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

pmyers said:


> Only when somebody quotes him...and that's pretty rare.


The Greasemonkey script even takes care of that.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The Greasemonkey script even takes care of that.


But does it take care of people quoting other people about ignoring? You seem to be generating off-topic discussion that cannot be filtered.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

pmyers said:


> Only when somebody quotes him...and that's pretty rare.


I suspect that most people quickly learn not to.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

smbaker said:


> I suspect that most people quickly learn not to.


I'm a slow learner, sadly.


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## BlueMerle (Jan 10, 2007)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The Greasemonkey script even takes care of that.


Yes it does!!


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

*SO....*

SPOILER ALERT

Possible info about someone lost in the first half of this season.

Again- it's a spoiler!



Spoiler



New photo has surfaced with regard to Judith-


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Spoiler



I knew it! That makes me happy.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Spoiler



I knew it too!

Though I have mixed feelings about it... Babies tend to tie characters down in stories. I'd really rather return to more on-the-move stories and less stuck-in-a-prison stories.


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## BlueMerle (Jan 10, 2007)

Spoiler



Is that pic shopped? Seriously. It looks shopped to me.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

john4200 said:


> You contradict yourself. Again. It is strange how you start discussing something and then throw a hissy fit, like a 13 year old girl.....


 You seem to know WAY too much about 13-year-old girls...


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Cearbhaill said:


> *SO....*
> 
> SPOILER ALERT
> 
> ...


Can you say


Spoiler



Photoshop


?


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Bierboy said:


> You seem to know WAY too much about 13-year-old girls...


Knowing that 13 year old girls sometimes throw hissy fits is "way too much"?


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

Anyone catch the cast on Conan (minus Rick) about a week ago? It was pretty good and nice to see them cleaned up (and minus dreads). If anyone is interested:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YcGJnjIL8M[/media]


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

super dave said:


> Anyone catch the cast on Conan (minus Rick) about a week ago? It was pretty good and nice to see them cleaned up (and minus dreads).


I did record that and was looking forward to it. Once I watched, again, too much Conan and Andy and not enough from the cast. It was ok, but not nearly as good as it could have been.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Barmat said:


> I seem to remember them telling each other to meet at a prearranged spot when they were loading the bus. I could have been projecting misremembering.


We debated this in the thread for the mid-season finale. It wasn't explicitly stated, but it seems like they hinted at it. It's very likely, even probable, that the writers hadn't even decided whether the group would have a designated meeting spot when they wrote the mid-season finale.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> We debated this in the thread for the mid-season finale. It wasn't explicitly stated, but it seems like they hinted at it. It's very likely, even probable, that the writers hadn't even decided whether the group would have a designated meeting spot when they wrote the mid-season finale.


Somebody in another forum I visit composed a list of several mentions of this type over the last season or two. I can't go right to it and don't have time to search, but it seemed legit.

But then it's the same place I came up with that photo ya'll are saying is shopped.

If I get time over night I'll search around a bit.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

This is a prediction based on NO inside knowledge -- not even from the comics. Spoilerizing anyway.



Spoiler



The season finale will be a happier version of the Season 2 finale when we found out what happened to Sophia. Judith will be found -- alive and well.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Beryl said:


> This is a prediction based on NO inside knowledge -- not even from the comics. Spoilerizing anyway.





Spoiler



I don't think they can push it that far. If she survived, then somebody had to pick up Judith during the battle. It's not like Sophia, where she could just wander off on her own. The producers would have to hold off showing us not only Judith, but also the cast member who picked up Judith. I suppose that's possible if it's one of the no-name prison residents, but I just don't see them keeping one of the main characters from us for that long.


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