# Problem with Music on Tivo HD



## bacevedo (Oct 31, 2003)

I have been having this problem for some time, and have seen hints posted in other threads that this might be a larger problem, so I thought I would post to see how many other people have this issue.

I have my Tivo HD hardwired to my network and use it to stream music from my PC. The PC is running Windows XP with iTunes and most of my music is in the AAC (m4a) format with some MP3 files mixed in.

The problem I am having is this:

I can go in and select my music to play and everything works fine. However, once I skip a track (using ch+/-) the new song will play fine, but it won't go to the next track on its own once the current song is done. I have used both Tivo Desktop 2.6 and pyTivo and they both have the same issue. I first thought it had to do with only my m4a files, but I think it happens with the mp3 files as well when using Tivo Desktop. A restart of pyTivo and Tivo Server usually fixes it.

So - does anyone else experience that? I am using ffmpeg with pyTivo and the Tivo plugin that one of the Tivo community admins created with Tivo Desktop to transcode them on the fly.

In some of my investigation, it almost seems like the Tivo isn't properly closing the stream to the PC and leaves a socket open. When using pyTivo, it never kills the ffmpeg process when transcoding an AAC file if I use the skip track function. If I let the songs end on their own (without ever skipping tracks) it works fine. This makes me believe the Tivo isn't sending a close command to the current stream and just asks for a new one. If I sit at the computer and kill the ffmpeg process manually (the one left over from the previous track when I skipped it) it will then go on to the next song fine when it ends.

I am really trying to determine if this is just an issue because of the need to transcode my m4a files and if converting them all to mp3 will solve the issue or if this is a known issue with the Tivo HD software itself. If others report that their Tivo HD works fine and they only use mp3, then that might be an option. However, if it's the same problem with mp3 files, then I am hoping others here might know more about this issue and give me advice on how they work around it, etc.

Thanks,
Bryan


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

My experience of this problem was that it was largely eliminated once pyTivo gained the ability to fast-forward and rewind. (If you see green in the progress bar, you have a version of pyTivo that supports it. But you also have to make sure that ffmpeg is actually working for mp3's. Which it is, if it's handling m4a files.)

The problem was _not_ fixable by restarting pyTivo, but _was_ fixable (temporarily) by restarting the TiVo box. The problem is not on the pyTivo end, even though a change in pyTivo seemed to work around it.

I can't really comment on TiVo Desktop. I've heard others say they saw the same problem there, but that doesn't seem to fit with my observations of pyTivo, since TD always supported fast-forward and rewind. So, I don't know.


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## djwilso (Dec 23, 2006)

bacevedo said:


> I can go in and select my music to play and everything works fine. However, once I skip a track (using ch+/-) the new song will play fine, but it won't go to the next track on its own once the current song is done. I have used both Tivo Desktop 2.6 and pyTivo and they both have the same issue. I first thought it had to do with only my m4a files, but I think it happens with the mp3 files as well when using Tivo Desktop. A restart of pyTivo and Tivo Server usually fixes it.


I have the same problem on my TiVo Series 3 (running 9.3a still). For me, all of my files are MP3. I am also using wired networking and have TiVo Desktop 2.6.1 running on a Windows XP SP2 computer. I have pyTivo running as well, along with the Universal Audio plugin from Dan203. I also have the Combined Community Codec Pack installed, which introduces ffmpeg into the mix.

To fix it for me, I just have to press the Left button on the remote to go back to the list of songs and play the next song, and the TiVo will skip to the next song by itself for awhile until it happens again.

It's very annoying, but so far hasn't bugged me enough to do any hard-target troubleshooting to narrow down the root cause.

If anyone knows the solution, I'd really appreciate knowing.

- Dennis


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

Dan203 in his sticky 'Want to play nearly ANY audio file on your TiVo?' thread above says that this is a problem with interactions between the TiVo, TiVo Desktop and his plugin. He cannot fix it without help from TiVo. See the sticky thread above for all the details.


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## bacevedo (Oct 31, 2003)

Yes - I have seen that. But this does also happen with pyTivo.

What I am surprised about is why don't more people complain about this? Do not many people use the Tivo as a media client for their music? And I have seen others say that they have this issue with only mp3 files (i.e. no plugin used). And yet others say it works fine.

I am just trying to figure out if there is something I am missing.

Thanks,
Bryan


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

I was seeing it with TDUAP and with pyTiVo on a NAS, but regular TiVo Desktop, without TDUAP seems to work just fine for me. I will keep my eyes peeled extra carefully though to see if I see any weirdness.

I am converting my few remaining m4a's to mp3 just to make sure they are all playable without needing a plugin.


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## bacevedo (Oct 31, 2003)

I played with it a little more tonight and Tivo Desktop is definitely worse than pyTivo. I have to reboot the Tivo to get it to work again with Tivo Desktop. With pyTivo, I just have to kill the ffmpeg_mp2 process and it works ok again.

Also, with Tivo Desktop, after a couple of times of skipping tracks, it stops working completely. With pyTivo, it may not go to the next track on its own, but I just hit ch+ and it goes on and then stops again at the end of the song.

I still think the Tivo is not sending an end of communication command or something like that when you skip a track which leaves a stream open. pyTivo probably doesn't care, but it causes an issue when the Tivo asks for the next song. When the same thing happens with Tivo Desktop, it probably doesn't have enough file handles or streams allocated to give it the next song. But who knows.

Even if I do track skipping with mp3 files and ffmpeg is not even run, it still hangs up pyTivo. I am now convinced it has nothing to do with my AAC files, nor pyTivo or even Tivo Desktop, but something in the 9.x Tivo software.

It's possible that Tivo Desktop works great with only mp3 files and no plugin, but I don't want to go through converting my 3000 songs to find out it still has issues.

Maybe someone who uses Tivo Desktop with only mp3's that isn't having issues can install the plugin (you can easily uninstall it) and see if they start having the same issues.

Bryan


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## bacevedo (Oct 31, 2003)

djwilso said:


> I have the same problem on my TiVo Series 3 (running 9.3a still). For me, all of my files are MP3. I am also using wired networking and have TiVo Desktop 2.6.1 running on a Windows XP SP2 computer. I have pyTivo running as well, along with the Universal Audio plugin from Dan203. I also have the Combined Community Codec Pack installed, which introduces ffmpeg into the mix.
> 
> To fix it for me, I just have to press the Left button on the remote to go back to the list of songs and play the next song, and the TiVo will skip to the next song by itself for awhile until it happens again.
> 
> ...


Dennis - why do you have the Universal Audio plugin if your files are only mp3s? Maybe you can try uninstalling that to see if it starts working for you. I am wondering if that plugin could cause issues with Tivo Desktop even if it isn't needed for transcoding mp3 files.

Bryan


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

bacevedo said:


> I played with it a little more tonight and Tivo Desktop is definitely worse than pyTivo. I have to reboot the Tivo to get it to work again with Tivo Desktop. With pyTivo, I just have to kill the ffmpeg_mp2 process and it works ok again.


TiVo Desktop with TDUAP, pure TiVo Desktop should not do that.



> I still think the Tivo is not sending an end of communication command or something like that when you skip a track which leaves a stream open. pyTivo probably doesn't care, but it causes an issue when the Tivo asks for the next song. When the same thing happens with Tivo Desktop, it probably doesn't have enough file handles or streams allocated to give it the next song. But who knows.


That might be it. Something about having TDUAP installed changes the way TiVo Desktop handles these things.



> Even if I do track skipping with mp3 files and ffmpeg is not even run, it still hangs up pyTivo. I am now convinced it has nothing to do with my AAC files, nor pyTivo or even Tivo Desktop, but something in the 9.x Tivo software.


Agreed, but how the three pieces interact to handle whatever changed in the TiVo Behavior presents different symptoms depending on how they are configured and set up. Fixing or at least documenting what the TiVo does would help a lot. Then Dan203, the TiVo Desktop developers and the pyTiVo developers could make the changes to work around the problem. If the TiVo itself gets fixed, that would be even better, but TiVo needs to update their SDK and let the community know what it is they are doing so that the software can play with it correctly.



> It's possible that Tivo Desktop works great with only mp3 files and no plugin, but I don't want to go through converting my 3000 songs to find out it still has issues.


I don't blame you. Talk with Dan203, he seems the most knowledgeable about all of this and might be able to point the best way forward in bringing this to TiVo's attention.



> Maybe someone who uses Tivo Desktop with only mp3's that isn't having issues can install the plugin (you can easily uninstall it) and see if they start having the same issues.


Careful! I thought it was uninstalled for months and it wasn't. m4a's crashed the tivo music player each and every time I hit one, no matter how the song was approached. It will not completely uninstall if TiVo Desktop server is running.


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## bacevedo (Oct 31, 2003)

Thanks for the info. I didn't realize you were talking about the plugin when you said TDUAP (I just now realized what the acronym was for). So it does sound like if I did convert all of my songs over and used Tivo Desktop, it would work. However, that would increase the size of my files and I wouldn't be able to put as many on my shuffle and my wife's nano. In addition, I wouldn't want to convert from m4a to mp3 - I would want to re-rip my entire CD collection directly to mp3, which would take some time. Hmmn, decisions.

Now I realize where my confusion was. When people are saying it works for them, it's because they aren't using TDUAP with Tivo Desktop. It sounds like removing TDUAP (but first shutting down Tivo Desktop completely) will work for Dennis.

Again, thanks for the info.

Bryan


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

I wouldn't re-rip or convert that big a collection either. Instead I would try some of the alternatives and find one what works best with the collection as it exists now. Some of the things you can look into are pyTivo, Galleon, Audio Faucet and J River Media Center. I am not sure which of those will or won't work with you collection but it should be fun finding out. I know you have tried pyTivo, so working with the folks on that forum might help with trying to fix the problems it gives you. if you can't get it working satisfactorily and you have not tried the other programs, it might be worth your while to experiment.


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## hunts (Oct 5, 2006)

bacevedo said:


> Yes - I have seen that. But this does also happen with pyTivo.
> 
> What I am surprised about is why don't more people complain about this? Do not many people use the Tivo as a media client for their music? And I have seen others say that they have this issue with only mp3 files (i.e. no plugin used). And yet others say it works fine.
> 
> ...


I have the same problem. If i skip tracks manually, the tivo will play the 1 song and the just stop. This problem really only came up when I had my Tivo hooked up via ethernet. When I ran it wirelessly, this was never a problem. That does not make ANY sense to me..........

restarting the tivo does not fix this once i skip another track. If I let it play through normally its fine, but the moment i skip a track, it will stop after that song and will not switch.


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## subat0mic (Jan 7, 2007)

I too have the same problem

I have seen the problem on both pyTivo and TivoDesktop.
(I suspect the problem is the Tivo, not the servers.)
Certain folders of mp3s I have only play one song then the play progress bar quits at the end - never to advance to the next song. I have to then manually hit next to advance.

Sometimes the Tivo gets in a bad state, after playing these "defective" mp3 files, where it will not play ANY mp3 ever again, until I reboot the Tivo

It seems to only happen for specific folders of mp3s. But they play perfectly on WinXP... so they're not broken by any means.

I have the latest pyTivo, and the latest TivoDesktop. (not both running at the same time)...


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## hunts (Oct 5, 2006)

Im bumping this because Tivo still has not addressed this.


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## subat0mic (Jan 7, 2007)

agreed. I wish they'd fix their mp3 support.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

In another related thread I also noted that I was having issues just playing M3u playlists (published to the TiVo with Tivitunes) that have lots of songs. In some cases, I try and select the playlist and it gets an error. Other times I get into the playlist and when I select a song, then it has an error. I have also noted the "won't skip/shuffle" to the next song thing.

Incidentally, some of my larger playlists do not have this issue.

I think I am going to republish all of my music and playlists and see if that helps.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

While I too wish tivo would fix the music play functions so pytivo could work better with it, 

I gave up on it and went to Audio Faucet. It works very well, displays album art and many other features. It has not been updated in quite some time but still works fine under tivo version 11. And its free.


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## subat0mic (Jan 7, 2007)

thank you jcthorne. I installed audiofaucet and it works *beautifully*.

Apparently both pyTivo and Tivo desktop have the bug together (or they each fail to work around the issue on the Tivo unit itself perhaps??). still using pytivo for video serving though, it's awesome.

in any case, I can play mp3s back to back in folders that before I could not when using pytivo or TD pro 2.61...

Slick interface for audio faucet too, nice stuff. My only complaint is that it doesn't let you seek through a song fwd/bckwrds...

tivo desktop really needs to adopt something like faucet... no brainer there...


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

The bug is on the TiVo side. There is no way to work around it, except for the end user to avoid skipping tracks. (Audio Faucet uses HME rather than HMO, so it's a different situation.)

If you skip using the advance key (which goes to near the end of the song), rather than channel up, that seems to keep it stable.

At the time of my previous post in this thread, I hadn't yet realized that the people who were still reporting problems were using the channel up method, while I'd always used the advance method, which as I noted was a problem in older versions of pyTivo.


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## subat0mic (Jan 7, 2007)

wmcbrine,
my problem is not pressing any buttons. but for certain sets of mp3 files, when pressing play for the entire folder, after playing through the first mp3, the tivo never advances to the next track. it simply gets stuck at the end of the 1st track... no buttons pressed. see my earlier post about this. This also seems to destabilize the tivo, and sometimes I have to reboot.

I wonder if pytivo should use HME to work around the HMO problem with mp3s... I'm sure that's more simply said than done though.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Indeed, HME and HMO are entirely different and essentially unrelated. pyTivo will always be an HMO server. To say "pyTivo should use HME" is equivalent to saying "pyTivo should be scrapped and replaced with all new code, sharing only the name with previous versions." Besides which, HMO still has a place (although TiVo's unfixed bug certainly makes the music side less useful).


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Can audio facuet play non-DRM AAC files? Does it work in coinjunction with Dan 203's audio plugin?

What services run on the computer as a result? What kind of overhead, if any?


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Audio Faucet will play anything your Itunes installation has access to, including DRM managed files if you have access rights. As part of the setup on your server you choose to use an Itunes share or a folder of mp3 files. I do not use Itunes or AAC files at all but there are those that do.


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## subat0mic (Jan 7, 2007)

AudioFaucet claims they only support mp3 files. whether from local folder, or from itunes. i think i saw something that aac from itunes is _not_ supported (which would logically follow from my 1st sentence)...

wish it was open source, or had a way to be extended... Audio Faucet is the only app that i've found that makes music play without errors on the tivo. But then it limits us to mp3 only... which is... limiting...  as such, i still plan to use pytivo for other file types...

check out the release notes (it says "Currently we do not stream AAC files"):
http://www.digitaldroplet.net/digitaldroplet/Download.html


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