# How does Tivo work with Verizon Fios?



## truman861 (Jul 14, 2012)

Hey guys, checking for any new info about Fios as its been 4 years since the most recent thread that popped up.

I am looking to give BH Tampabay the finger and move to Fios but need to know if its worth it.

Previous posts said you have to have a tuner in every room, I have a 6 tuner roamio and two minis so if I need a stb connected to the roamio, then that defeats the whole purpose. I know they use M cards as well but if i cant tune more than one channel at one time then i'll stay where i am.

Do they use TA's or do they not do SDV ?

Let me know - thanks


----------



## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

They use m cards just like you have and don't use SDV. No need for a cable box or TA or anything hooked up except your Cablecard into the Roamio, just like you have now with BH. (I'm sure there's more to it than that, I've never had fios, but this is what I've learned by osmosis of reading here)


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

truman861 said:


> Previous posts said you have to have a tuner in every room


I don't know what you've been reading, but that was never the situation with Fios. From a TiVo's perspective, it works like any other QAM cable TV system.

TiVo Series 3 and later are not even capable of recording from an STB.



> _Do they use TA's or do they not do SDV ?_


They do not do SDV.

I've been using TiVos with Fios since 2007, BTW.


----------



## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

You would probably be much happier with FIOS. In general, TiVo seems to work best on FIOS. The Roamio/Minis will work exactly the same with FIOS as they do with your cable company, and not having to deal with a tuning adapter is a big advantage in my book. If I had the option of FIOS in my area, I'd drop Time Warner so fast their heads would spin. Even though I often dislike some things Verizon does, the fact that they took the trouble to do things right and go FTTH should be commended.


----------



## caughey (May 26, 2007)

Maybe you didn't find many posts because there aren't many complaints? I don't know what the "tuner in every room" means. I switched from TWC years ago and haven't had any regrets. TiVo and FiOS go together like peanut butter and jelly. Roamio is an even better match.

The only recent issues I've seen with the Roamio and FiOS were with pairing for HBO/Cinemax. TiVo has updated the software to correct the problem, and if you have trouble just remember the magic words "manually validate."

Oh, and you won't be able to access FiOS VOD through TiVo.

*Edit*
I just skimmed through your other post You should run, not walk, to FiOS.

FiOS only copy protects HBO and Cinemax channels, so you can copy all other programming using kmttg or TiVo Desktop.


----------



## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Exactly. The reason FIOS isn't mentioned much is because it just works as described.


----------



## dbenrosen (Sep 20, 2003)

caughey said:


> I don't know what the "tuner in every room" means.


This means you cannot get any stations without having some form of decoding device (re: tuner) attached to every signal. Before the cable companies started to switch to all digital, you usually could plug the coax directly into a TV and get a reasonable number of stations. Not so with FiOS. You needed something (a TiVO with cablecards, a FiOS STB, etc.) to get reception on any TV.


----------



## hoyty (Jan 22, 2003)

I moved to a Comcast only are and miss my FIOS everyday. I had it with Series 3 and would have loved it with my new Roamio. For me the biggest thing was video quality, no recompression on OTA signals! I can see how crappy the major networks are now. The only downside to FIOS is lack of OnDemand, but not sure if you had that anyway. Once the install is done you will never look back.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

hoyty said:


> I moved to a Comcast only are and miss my FIOS everyday. I had it with Series 3 and would have loved it with my new Roamio. For me the biggest thing was video quality, no recompression on OTA signals! I can see how crappy the major networks are now. The only downside to FIOS is lack of OnDemand, but not sure if you had that anyway. Once the install is done you will never look back.


Do they get better feeds of the OTA channels? The OTA channels around here look like crap on their own because of all the subchannels...


----------



## hoyty (Jan 22, 2003)

Bigg said:


> Do they get better feeds of the OTA channels? The OTA channels around here look like crap on their own because of all the subchannels...


I don't think so but good question. I wonder if what I am seeing now is bit-starved from the source or squished by Comcast.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

hoyty said:


> I don't think so but good question. I wonder if what I am seeing now is bit-starved from the source or squished by Comcast.


Yeah, I think Comcast is re-modulating the existing OTA channels bit for bit, giving each 6mhz ATSC-8VSB channel half of a 6mhz ATSC-QAM channel, taking all the subchannels with them. I wish they would get a high-bitrate fiber feed a tri-mux the HDs. As much as I hate on Comcast's tri-muxing, it would look 100x better than the crap we have now.

I had heard that DirecTV, because they use MPEG-4 was getting a direct fiber feed (probably very high bitrate MPEG-2 or MPEG-4) and doing their own MPEG-4 compression, so that they look better than the OTA feeds. I wonder if Verizon is doing the same thing, as they could take something like a 25mbps MPEG-4 feed, and compress it down to the "standard" 19mpbs MPEG-2 stream, and it would look amazing. If the local HD's looked good, unless you were in some market that's an anomaly and doesn't have way too many subhchannels mushed in, sucking bandwidth away from the main feed, they had to be doing something like this to get a good feed on FIOS.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

dbenrosen said:


> This means you cannot get any stations without having some form of decoding device (re: tuner) attached to every signal. Before the cable companies started to switch to all digital, you usually could plug the coax directly into a TV and get a reasonable number of stations. Not so with FiOS. You needed something (a TiVO with cablecards, a FiOS STB, etc.) to get reception on any TV.


Umm, you're sort of overstating it.

You needed a tuner before too.. the *TV* was the tuner.

The TV *could* still be the tuner. It's clear-QAM. I know Comcast can/is (everywhere?) now encrypting even the "basic" channels, but I don't know if other cable companies are.

(BTW, I _still_ miss 'just plug it in'. I also think analog artifacts are less annoying than digital artifacts, but admittedly, the average picture even on SD stations is WAY better than the average picture on analog stations.. But when they went bad, the analog was less annoying/still watchable... and analog glitches wouldn't prevent you from downloading a show to a computer, like digital glitches though -- though that's a Tivo problem.)


----------



## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

mattack said:


> You needed a tuner before too.. the *TV* was the tuner.
> 
> The TV *could* still be the tuner. It's clear-QAM. I know Comcast can/is (everywhere?) now encrypting even the "basic" channels, but I don't know if other cable companies are.


Good old Time Warner still sends through the local HD broadcast channels in the clear, so the QAM tuner has some use. They even still send through about 60 analog channels too, so the old analog tuners are still useful. We still have 1 TV in the house with the coax going straight into the TV that gets the analog and clearQAM channels....at least until Comcast comes in and does away with it and I have to buy another Mini for that TV. When that happens, troubleshooting will become more difficult, because right now whenever I'm having reception problems on my other TVs hooked up to TiVos, I can just go check that TV to see if it is having the same issues, and if it does I instantly know it's a Time Warner problem and not a TiVo problem.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Good old Time Warner still sends through the local HD broadcast channels in the clear, so the QAM tuner has some use. They even still send through about 60 analog channels too, so the old analog tuners are still useful. We still have 1 TV in the house with the coax going straight into the TV that gets the analog and clearQAM channels....at least until Comcast comes in and does away with it and I have to buy another Mini for that TV. When that happens, troubleshooting will become more difficult, because right now whenever I'm having reception problems on my other TVs hooked up to TiVos, I can just go check that TV to see if it is having the same issues, and if it does I instantly know it's a Time Warner problem and not a TiVo problem.


Comcast still has one analog channel (color bars) for troubleshooting and the like.

Analog should have been gone years ago. It's a complete waste of bandwidth. We'd still have less than 20 HD channels here (basically the networks, HBO, and ESPN) if it weren't for analog reclamation. Backasswards cable companies that are still running analog need to get their act together and move to all-digital.


----------



## cherrytree (Feb 10, 2007)

If you buy a Roamio Plus or Pro, which natively support MoCA, there's something magical about Fios needing only coax to connect to the Tivo box.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I highly recommend FIOS. The TV quality is unsurpassed and their internet is the fastest available. If you also include a land line phone you'll get a discount on the overall package. If you also have Verizon wireless you can get everything included on a single monthly bill. I've had FIOS for over six years now and absolutely love it. I can't recall if I've ever experienced a TV outage for any reason in all that time unless we had a power outage. Comcast and DirecTV used to go out on a regular basis if the weather was bad.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

cherrytree said:


> If you buy a Roamio Plus or Pro, which natively support MoCA, there's something magical about Fios needing only coax to connect to the Tivo box.


Ok, let's not get ridiculous here. There is nothing magic about the Verizon FIOS routers have MoCA WAN and MoCA LAN built in.

FIOS is definitely the best service out there, if you have Verizon as your telco, if your area is wired for FIOS, and if your house/living unit can get it. I will say that when/if I move to a FIOS area, FIOS will be on my short list of hard requirements for buying a condo or house.


----------



## cherrytree (Feb 10, 2007)

Having switched from Comcast three months ago, I'm generally happy with Fios. My biggest complaint is Verizon's high $5/month CableCard fee. Comcast did not charge for its CC.

On the other hand, Comcast charged me $7/month for its EMTA. Verizon doesn't charge for its ONT or router. So my total equipment charges with Verizon are still lower than with Comcast.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

cherrytree said:


> Having switched from Comcast three months ago, I'm generally happy with Fios. My biggest complaint is Verizon's high $5/month CableCard fee. Comcast did not charge for its CC.
> 
> On the other hand, Comcast charged me $7/month for its EMTA. Verizon doesn't charge for its ONT or router. So my total equipment charges with Verizon are still lower than with Comcast.


For new customers, Verizon is now charging for the router...

Comcast charges $7/mo for CableCards after the first one.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Bigg said:


> For new customers, Verizon is now charging for the router...
> 
> Comcast charges $7/mo for CableCards after the first one.


Not in our Comcast franchise. Cable cards are $1.00 after the first (just reduced from $1.15).










Scott


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

HerronScott said:


> Not in our Comcast franchise. Cable cards are $1.00 after the first (just reduced from $1.15).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


According to your price list, the 2nd card is only $1.00 if it's installed in the same device. In other words, the price is only applicable if you're using a S3 Tivo. I don't know of any other video devices that use two cablecards except the original SiliconDust HDHomeRun prime with six tuners (it's two of the 3-tuner models on one chassis and each threesome requires a cablecard). The list doesn't show what they charge if the 2nd device is separate from the 1st.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> According to your price list, the 2nd card is only $1.00 if it's installed in the same device. In other words, the price is only applicable if you're using a S3 Tivo. I don't know of any other video devices that use two cablecards except the original SiliconDust HDHomeRun prime with six tuners (it's two of the 3-tuner models on one chassis and each threesome requires a cablecard). The list doesn't show what they charge if the 2nd device is separate from the 1st.


Although the list doesn't explicitly state it those are the only CableCard rates listed and real world examples are that they are only charging my brother and I $1.00 for the additional CableCards whether it's the second CableCard in an S3 or the first cable card in a second HD or CableCards in a second S3.

He has 2 HD's and is getting charged a total of $2.00 for the 2 CableCards. (he also has Comcast DVR which is why he doesn't get the first one free). I have 2 S3's and am getting charged a total of $3.00 with the first one free for 4 CableCards.

Scott


----------



## truman861 (Jul 14, 2012)

ok, thanks guys, I have them scheduled for install on the 17th April

Roamio Plus (Master)
3 Tivo Mini's (living room and kids rooms)
3 x Premiers (retired)
Tivo series 3 HD (retired)
Tivo series 2 with PLS (retired)
MoCA
CC: Cisco PK802
TA: Cisco STA1520
T.W. Brighthouse Tampabay - Moving to Verizon Fios


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

HerronScott said:


> Not in our Comcast franchise. Cable cards are $1.00 after the first (just reduced from $1.15).
> 
> Scott


You're lucky. It's maddening that Comcast's rules are different in every market. I am doing well though, I only have one CableCard, so it's free, and I don't have to pay the HD fee, as here it's an equipment fee, not a programming fee.



mr.unnatural said:


> According to your price list, the 2nd card is only $1.00 if it's installed in the same device. In other words, the price is only applicable if you're using a S3 Tivo. I don't know of any other video devices that use two cablecards except the original SiliconDust HDHomeRun prime with six tuners (it's two of the 3-tuner models on one chassis and each threesome requires a cablecard). The list doesn't show what they charge if the 2nd device is separate from the 1st.


Depends on how you interpret "device". If you have two Ceton InfiniTV 6's in one computer, I would interpret that to be one "device".


----------



## orangefur (Nov 30, 2004)

After getting totally fed up with Comcast's unbelievably unreliable service and terrible customer service, we are switching to fios. One thing I do like about comcast is that we can access VOD through the tivo. Before they had this feature we were using a STB and a cablecard. Now that we won't be able to get VOD through the tivo again, we are thinking of just using the Verizon DVR. 

I have read several places that the user interface on the Verizon DVRs is terrible, but the posts were all old. Is this still true? Should we stick with TiVo? We are long, long time TiVo subscribers. Almost everyone I know has switched to their cable company's DVR. 

Here are some complicating factors: 

1. I think our main TiVo (Premiere XL) is dying, so we'd have to replace it soon ($$)

2. Multi-room viewing has never really worked well for us and this is a feature I would really like to use - seems like this is more straightforward with the Verizon DVR.

Opinions??


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Verizon does have a new six tuner DVR available now. So you can try that.
But in the long run it's still less expensive to use TiVo solutions.


----------



## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

With 6 tuners, on-demand isn't really as important if you have a Roamio because you usually have enough tuners to just record whatever shows you want. And setting up a Roamio and Minis on FIOS is usually very simple thanks to the MoCA enabled FIOS router. If it were me, I would stick with TiVo on FIOS.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

TiVo plus FIOS is the ultimate combination. And the Mini/Roamio combo is really good.


----------



## truman861 (Jul 14, 2012)

orangefur said:


> Here are some complicating factors:
> 
> 1. I think our main TiVo (Premiere XL) is dying, so we'd have to replace it soon ($$)
> 
> ...


It is a little costly to start but think of it this way. I was paying 20.00 for quipment and service for each DVR with Brighthouse plus 8.00 for a regular set top box. 68.00 a month just to record, thats 816.00 a year and the cable company whether it be brighthouse, comcast or verizon retains ownership of the equipment. If I want to sell my tivos down the road - I can. Look at it as home ownership verses renting. Just makes sense. 
I ended up buying a Roamio Plus and 3 mini's. I have 6 tuners so everyone can record stuff and the multiroom works great. I can start a show in one room and pick it up in a different room, not just pre-recorded shows. Same thing with things like Netflix and Hulu as well, AND you dont get all the extras on the cable box like Raphsody, Netflix, Hulu etc - the list goes on. 
Truman861


----------



## leepoffaith (Apr 21, 2014)

It looks like everything has been covered here, but I can add a few things that I have learned recently while looking into getting Tivo and already have Verizon FiOS.

1. All channels other than HBO and Cinamax are copy freely. If you get these you simply have to call Verizon (or chat) and have them validate your card. I was using a Tivo w/o the service for a while and they never had an issue doing this for me.

2. Verizon already has MOCA built into their routers so if you have the Roamio Plus/Pro then all you have to do is hook it up to the cable jack and you are good to go for all your Minis.

3. Verizon has all the locals as well as a few others on Clear QAM. We have a guest room TV that we just have connected directly to the cable jack w/o any boxes and it gets all the locals as well as ION, The Weather Channel and some others. This is very nice since 

Overall I'm very happy with Verizon FIOS's service. The internet is blazing fast and the TV is almost always crystal clear. My only gripe is with their boxes. With their new home media system it would cost me $48 to have 3 TVs hooked up. Instead of paying that crazy amount I've decided to invest in a Roamio w/ two Minis and lifetime subscription on all of them!


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

leepoffaith said:


> Verizon has all the locals as well as a few others on Clear QAM. We have a guest room TV that we just have connected directly to the cable jack w/o any boxes and it gets all the locals as well as ION, The Weather Channel and some others.


Have you not found that the channels disappear after a while, necessitating a rescan? I ran into this often enough that I gave up on clear QAM via Fios. (The exception was when I had an old Series 3 with an unsubscribed, eBay-supplied CableCard -- the mapping from the CableCard overcame whatever shenanigans Verizon was doing with their PSIP.)


----------



## leepoffaith (Apr 21, 2014)

wmcbrine said:


> Have you not found that the channels disappear after a while, necessitating a rescan? I ran into this often enough that I gave up on clear QAM via Fios. (The exception was when I had an old Series 3 with an unsubscribed, eBay-supplied CableCard -- the mapping from the CableCard overcame whatever shenanigans Verizon was doing with their PSIP.)


I read about this problem, but I have not had any issues. I have a little printed channel guide that I laminated for our guests and it's stayed the same over the past 2-3 years. I think it might have to do with the QAM tuner in the TV. I'm on VHO2 so I'm not sure if that matter or not.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

leepoffaith said:


> I read about this problem, but I have not had any issues. I have a little printed channel guide that I laminated for our guests and it's stayed the same over the past 2-3 years. I think it might have to do with the QAM tuner in the TV. I'm on VHO2 so I'm not sure if that matter or not.


I've also had no issues for years with the QAM tuner in my bedroom TV that I have the FiOS cable connected to. I periodically check it during the year and everything always seems fine.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

If anybody else with Fios was getting poor Netflix performance due to the longstanding Verizon/Cogent/Netflix peering dispute, relief is coming.

http://gigaom.com/2014/04/28/verizon-inks-paid-peering-deal-with-netflix/


----------



## jcaudle (Aug 16, 2004)

HarperVision said:


> They use m cards just like you have and don't use SDV. No need for a cable box or TA or anything hooked up except your Cablecard into the Roamio, just like you have now with BH. (I'm sure there's more to it than that, I've never had fios, but this is what I've learned by osmosis of reading here)


 I dumped Cox in almost 3 years ago. No problems with random reboots and no SDV or Tuning adapters. Plus far better internet speeds and reliability.


----------



## truman861 (Jul 14, 2012)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> If anybody else with Fios was getting poor Netflix performance due to the longstanding Verizon/Cogent/Netflix peering dispute, relief is coming.
> 
> http://gigaom.com/2014/04/28/verizon-inks-paid-peering-deal-with-netflix/


Thankfully havent had any netflix issues and I use that all the time


----------

