# New TiVo 8.1 Software Update Available !!!



## TivoLaddie (Dec 3, 2002)

Just visited the TiVo site and see they have released the software ver. 8.1 upgrade priority list for all Series 2 owners.

One of my Series 2's already updated back on Nov 1. Definitely a good upgrade, faster, and offers WPA level encryption on my wireless home network!

Just visit TiVo's home page, and resubmit the URL adding "/priority" on the URL link in your browser in order to to sign up for the 8.1 update, which should (according to TiVo) be downloaded to your Series 2 "within 3 business days" from initial request.

The links are:

www.tivo.com/priority

OR

http://research.tivo.com/81priority

Good luck!

This is the page you'll see upon visiting the link:

TiVo Fall 2006 Service Update 
Thank you for your interest in the new TiVo Fall 2006 Service Update, featuring enhanced support for recording live events, WPA network security, and improved system performance.

This update is for TiVo Series2 Digital Video Recorders only! DIRECTV DVRs with TiVo and TiVo Series1 DVRs are not eligible for this update.

Have a TiVo Series3 Digital Media Recorder? This update is not yet available for these units.

Only DVRs with TiVo Service Numbers beginning with the following numbers are eligible for this software:
110, 130, 140, 230, 240, 264, 275, 540, 565, 590, 595, and 649.

(You can find your TiVo Service Number by going to:
TiVo Central -> Messages and Settings -> System Information.)

*** Please note: It may take up to three business days to receive your new software. We appreciate your patience.

You have received the update when the software version in the System Information screen begins with "8.1". For more information, please visit our Customer Support site.

Thank you for using the TiVo Service!

TiVo Customer Support


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

How was this found? I don't see any main links on Tivo.com dirrecting us to the site, but none the less I signed up and just hope for the best.


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## TivoLaddie (Dec 3, 2002)

This is how TiVo members requested priority software updates once the updates were known to be made available.

When I called TiVo Customer Service recently concerning the 8.1 update, even the CS Rep on the phone mentioned he would try this same URL link to see if it was available yet.

By submitting your box serial number via this URL link to TiVo, TiVo state that you should expect to receive the update within 3 business days as part of the normal daily data download.


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## supasta (May 6, 2006)

Einselen said:


> How was this found? I don't see any main links on Tivo.com dirrecting us to the site, but none the less I signed up and just hope for the best.


It is the same only tivo.com/priority link redirect that has been the case with all other previous updates. Seems that it is up and running. I also signed up.


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## TivoLaddie (Dec 3, 2002)

supasta said:


> It is the same only tivo.com/priority link redirect that has been the case with all other previous updates. Seems that it is up and running. I also signed up.


Yes, but the link had been down forever, and when up, only referenced an old 7.x software request where the program was long since completed.

I had been trying the URL link for days as TiVo Customer Service told me the link will be enabled once the 8.1 rollout is ready.

Presto, and the new 8.1 link just appeared the last hour or so.

Good luck!


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Well, I put in one of my TSNs - let's see if anything shows up in the next few days.

Good catch on the /priority page.

It will be interesting to see what pops up here first - a "here's what's fixed" thread or a "here's what's not" thread. 

What I like most is "Have a TiVo Series3 Digital Media Recorder? This update is not yet available for these units." - any guesses on what "not yet" becomes "now"?


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## 2004raptor (Dec 31, 2005)

Just signed up for it. Thanks for the heads up. Hope something good comes of it.


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## Bimwad (Jul 4, 2005)

I've been testing the links for the past few days, too.

I usually let the bleeding edge users test out new releases first, but since the old version was such a dud, there's nowhere to go but up. Fingers crossed.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

I've had 8.1 for a week or two. It definitely fixed the slowdown problems I was having on my 40 hr Humax. (Disclaimer: to my knowlege I was not placed into a Beta program, although I did receive the update in advance of the official release).

I had gotten used to other 7.X quirks so I haven't specifically noticed whether it has fixed those.

I understand that there are other enhancements - WPA support for the TiVo wireless adapter, for example.


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## lvirden (Jul 29, 2003)

so what is the specific version number that people are getting? and is there a write up anywhere on new features?


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I'll sign up....however, I will not convert my network to WPA right away. I would like to see what kind of overhead people are seeing with the enhanced security first.

Anyone have any thoughts on what "enhanced support for recording live events" means?


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## BUDYL (Feb 1, 2004)

I assumed most people have service # 648 .... from their series 3. Or is it just me.
I tried entering my 648 # and it said it was not on the valid list. Only 649 is on that priority list.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Einselen said:


> How was this found? I don't see any main links on Tivo.com dirrecting us to the site, but none the less I signed up and just hope for the best.


I use this site to monitor changes to pages. This morning I woke up, logged in to my mail account and an email was waiting there with a message that the priority list page had changed. Very useful for situations like this one


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

BUDYL said:


> I assumed most people have service # 648 .... from their series 3. Or is it just me.
> I tried entering my 648 # and it said it was not on the valid list. Only 649 is on that priority list.


648 is the S3, 649 is the S2DT.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

BUDYL said:


> I assumed most people have service # 648 .... from their series 3. Or is it just me.
> I tried entering my 648 # and it said it was not on the valid list. Only 649 is on that priority list.


Did you not read the text on the page or what?


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

So none of the TiVoCast related stuff has shown up in this?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

HDTiVo, that was a joke, right? 

Although the TiVoCast stuff might not need a firmware upgrade, it might just be added to the "Music, Photos and more" or whatever it's called.


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## TivoLaddie (Dec 3, 2002)

jlb said:


> I'll sign up....however, I will not convert my network to WPA right away. I would like to see what kind of overhead people are seeing with the enhanced security first.
> 
> Anyone have any thoughts on what "enhanced support for recording live events" means?


I've had trouble-free performance on the WPA network test (several days on data downloads, as well as monitoring TiVo Desktop performance) on one of my two Series 2's which updated on Nov 1. No noticeable load on my home network that I could see. Everything ran smooth, and definitely a faster response time all around, specially on the TiVo menus and stepping through program listings. Let's face it, WPA vs. WEP security has been a long-time request to TiVo, ever since 2003 I think!

You need the TiVo branded wireless adapter to enable WPA, of course, but as I have had the TiVo adapter on both of my Series 2's for awhile now, I've been pleased with the performance. After several days testing, the only downside was I had to step my home network down to WEP again so as to allow my other Series 2 to daily download - and (now) to hopefully update in the next few days. It can't come soon enough!

As for the "enhanced support for recording live events" feature, this means that when recording a live event (such as a typically over-running sports event, for example) TiVo will "automatically" prompt you to add on additional time so you can "pad" generously. I can't tell you how many times I've come home to find only 10 mins of my favorite 60 min show due to a prior basketball game which ran over! Hopefully this new TiVo "nice-to-have reminder enhancement" might at least minimize (as opposed to eliminate) such disappointments. We can only hope!

Hope this helps!


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I already have two TiVo adapters running right now. My only concern about using the WPA is really how it will affect, if at all, the time for TiVo2Go transfers. Right now I am anywhere from 40 minutes to 65 minutes for a 1 hour Medium Quality program. I wouldn't mind if it takes a little bit longer as I usually queue a bunch up before going to bed. I'll probably let the 8.1 software load and operate that for a while without shifting to WPA. Then if all goes well, I'll consider changing........


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> It will be interesting to see what pops up here first - a "here's what's fixed" thread or a "here's what's not" thread.


Those threads have been out for a while now from the few random users who go the update early - mostly have been here is what is fixed.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

MickeS said:


> HDTiVo, that was a joke, right?
> 
> Although the TiVoCast stuff might not need a firmware upgrade, it might just be added to the "Music, Photos and more" or whatever it's called.


Not at all, some TiVoCast control is supposed to get integrated into SP function, for one.


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

Yes, we've started the rollout of the Fall 2006 Service Update. Sorry I couldn't post, I was in transit back from New York. Didn't realize you'd all notice that the priority page had changed. 

WPA support for the TiVo Wireless Adapter, a new way to make sure you don't miss the end of live events, and in general a zippier interface (I'd mentioned we were working on performance).

Once again, the priority page is here.

Oh, regarding performance...right after a reboot your guide may be just a bit slower, give it a bit of time and it'll speed up quite a bit. A few hours to a day should do the trick. 

Cheers,
Pony


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

TiVoPony said:


> Y...a new way to make sure you don't miss the end of live events...


 Interesting. How about a little more info on this if you could?


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

HDTiVo said:


> So none of the TiVoCast related stuff has shown up in this?


The TiVoCast and other broadband features announced this week are in development...they're not part of this software rollout. We do lay more infrastructure for supporting those features in this release though, but that's under-the-hood stuff.

Some portions of what we announced will be available relatively soon, others not until sometime next year.

Pony


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

ah30k said:


> Interesting. How about a little more info on this if you could?


It's called 'Extend Live' - your TiVo DVR will automatically recognize when you're scheduling a live or tape delayed event to record, and will prompt you to add some additional recording time.

Pony


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## chrispitude (Apr 23, 2005)

TiVoPony said:


> Oh, regarding performance...right after a reboot your guide may be just a bit slower, give it a bit of time and it'll speed up quite a bit. A few hours to a day should do the trick.


Awesome! This has been my only real dissatisfaction with Tivo, to the point where I don't bother surfing the guide for interesting one-time programs to grab.

- Chris


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## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

Well, I guess as soon as the first person receives the update via this means...all those of you participating in the Beta can shed your NDA, and give us your initial insights to real world experience. (if you have the same version we are getting)

Hopefully my Tivo Wireless G adapter is arriving today....Just like JLB in his post, I'm wondering if switching to wpa will have a performance hit on transfer speed.


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## nirisahn (Nov 19, 2005)

I have 2 questions.

1) Why do you have to sign up for an update? To my thinking, since everything's done by computer anyway, shouldn't the update go out to everyone at once?

2) What's WPA? It's obviously not the Depression era government work program.

Thanks.


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## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

TiVoPony said:


> It's called 'Extend Live' - your TiVo DVR will automatically recognize when you're scheduling a live or tape delayed event to record, and will prompt you to add some additional recording time.
> Pony


Interesting...wonder how it works with wishlists, or whether it's just for onetime/season pass setups.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Stu_Bee said:


> Well, I guess as soon as the first person receives the update via this means...all those of you participating in the Beta can shed your NDA, and give us your initial insights to real world experience. (if you have the same version we are getting)


I believe the NDA said that you can't even disclose you were in a Tivo Beta, so those in it can't just shed it and be like hey hey I was in the beta and this is what works and this is what doesn't.


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## Bill McNeal (May 31, 2002)

Any word if the Thumbs Up/Down problem has been fixed in this update?


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

nirisahn said:


> Why do you have to sign up for an update? To my thinking, since everything's done by computer anyway, shouldn't the update go out to everyone at once?


You don't have to sign up for the update. This is just the priority list meaning if you want it earlier they will push it to you earlier. This helps Tivo figure out how crazy the call centers will get and also help stagger the release of the software. If you wait you will still get the software, just a little later then those signing up on the site.


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## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

Einselen said:


> I believe the NDA said that you can't even disclose you were in a Tivo Beta, so those in it can't just shed it and be like hey hey I was in the beta and this is what works and this is what doesn't.


Heh..I know. I didn't say they should indicate they were in a beta. What I said was they could then comment on the current version like everyone else since the rollout had begun.


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## jtlytle (May 17, 2005)

Einselen said:


> You don't have to sign up for the update. This is just the priority list meaning if you want it earlier they will push it to you earlier. This helps Tivo figure out how crazy the call centers will get and also help stagger the release of the software. If you wait you will still get the software, just a little later then those signing up on the site.


True.. TCF members gets them earlier.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

nirisahn said:


> I have 2 questions.
> 
> 1) Why do you have to sign up for an update? To my thinking, since everything's done by computer anyway, shouldn't the update go out to everyone at once?
> 
> ...


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

nirisahn said:


> I have 2 questions.
> 
> 1) Why do you have to sign up for an update?  To my thinking, since everything's done by computer anyway, shouldn't the update go out to everyone at once?
> 
> ...


You do not have to sign up as TiVo will get V 8.1 to all but there is a limit to the size of TiVos servers so it will take some time for all to get it, I will guess about two months. If you want it fast sign up or you could Lucky and get it tonight.

WPA is a network protection term that others can explain to you.


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## divedeeper (Dec 17, 2002)

Hey TivoPony, So for those of us who have the new Series 3 HD Tivos, when are we going to expect our upgrade? Tivo Desktop still doesn't work with the Series 3 for transfering shows to the computer.


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## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

Seriously. I don't even care about MRV or TTG, I want bugfixes for sound dropouts, incomplete recordings, and a faster UI.


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

divedeeper said:


> Hey TivoPony, So for those of us who have the new Series 3 HD Tivos, when are we going to expect our upgrade? Tivo Desktop still doesn't work with the Series 3 for transfering shows to the computer.


As it says on the priority signup page, this update is not available for the Series3 yet.

Regarding transferring shows, that's a separate question, and we continue to work on that ability. But I do not have any additional information to share regarding when that will be available on Series3.

Pony


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## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

TiVoPony said:


> As it says on the priority signup page, this update is not available for the Series3 yet.


I think that's why he asked the question.



TiVoPony said:


> Regarding transferring shows......we continue to work on that ability.


Hmm..does that mean Tivo's still trying to figure out how to program it, or just waiting for CableLabs approval? Almost sounds like the former. Hopefully not, otherwise it's further away than i thought.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Stu_Bee said:


> I think that's why he asked the question.
> 
> Hmm..does that mean Tivo's still trying to figure out how to program it, or just waiting for CableLabs approval? Almost sounds like the former. Hopefully not, otherwise it's further away than i thought.


since the new relase is an 8x version and the S3 has an 8x version - it looks like the same code base will be on both boxes. I am sure TTG for SD content on an S3 did not need to be modified and I wonder how many people would want to TTG HD content that is an order of magnitude larger in size.

It looks like Cable labs is the big hold up on TTG and MRV on the S3 for Sd content and then who knows about HD content


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Another bug fixed in 8.1:

If you begin watching a program while it's still recording, at the end you get the normal "do you want to delete this recording?" message. With 7.3.1 it would just exit to "resume playing," even if you let it play to the very end.


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## TiVoDoughBoy (Nov 8, 2004)

This is all so exciting... the Fall 2006 Service Update. Full of new... er... enhanced... um, uh... full of... *sigh* features to make it work... just like it... did. Six months ago. For all of these new features I'd gladly pay extra. Oh, that's right, no real new features, just fixes. To make it work again. Like it used to. Six months ago. But heck, why not go ahead and raise the rates anyway?

O.K., I feel a little better.  Just been a frustrating autumn season for me and TiVo. Loyal customer with a Series 1 and two Series 2's, been on board for four years. My Series 2's been so slow since 7.3.1 that even my elementary school-aged children are complaining about the guide and navigation. And we've put up with that for 3 months. Here comes Series 3, great! Only $800. Yeah, sure, I'll pick that up after my $600 PS3. And now, after living with these 7.3.1 problems, the rates go through the roof, comparatively. Sure, I get grandfathered in with my current rates, for now, but TiVo reserves the right to back out on that, too.

I know I'm just one customer, but forgive me if I don't get too excited about a brand new release of the software who's most exciting new feature is that it fixes all the problems of the previous release and gets me back to where things work again. TiVo's got some work to do to earn back some lost loyalty, respect, and continual good word-of-mouth from this one long-time customer...


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## highgrovemanor (Jan 14, 2004)

TivoLaddie said:


> You need the TiVo branded wireless adapter to enable WPA, of course, but as I have had the TiVo adapter on both of my Series 2's for awhile now, I've been pleased with the performance. After several days testing, the only downside was I had to step my home network down to WEP again so as to allow my other Series 2 to daily download - and (now) to hopefully update in the next few days. It can't come soon enough!


Anyone know why the tivo adapter is required for WPA? I was excited about moving away from WEP...but now not so much.


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## TivoLaddie (Dec 3, 2002)

highgrovemanor said:


> Anyone know why the tivo adapter is required for WPA? I was excited about moving away from WEP...but now not so much.


That is a great question, and best explained by TiVo I guess!

I, too, am somewhat puzzled as to why the TiVo branded adapter is the only adapter to support the WPA protocol. I have to say (as a pure wild guess here) that it is most probably related to proprietary algorithms specifically within the TiVo box itself, and may even perhaps be "market opportunity/share" related? I have to wonder, given how long the WPA protocol has been out there, yet no other reputable vendor (and there are many) are in a position to offer a compatible WPA adapter. So I'll put it down to, perhaps, the lack of a business liaison opportunity willingness by TiVo and/or certain network vendors? Who knows.

TiVo have confirmed at *this link* that their branded adapter is the only one which is WPA capable, for now... if that even helps you.

Specifically at the link above, TiVo state with regard to their own branded wireless adapter as it relates to the WPA security protocol:

It is "_the only wireless network adapter for TiVo DVRs that supports both WEP and WPA wireless network security protocols... If you are trying to use an adapter that is not listed here, there is the possibility that it may appear to work with some of our networking features. Unfortunately, you are likely to experience issues or failures in other areas_."

I am excited about the WPA security offering which folks have only been asking TiVo about forever ... I have two Series 2's on an extensive home network, while also getting a lot of use out of TiVo Desktop for programme archival purposes to other (external) hard disk libraries, so I felt I would take a chance in trying the TiVo adapters in order to get away from WEP security asap. I know there are all kinds of alternative network bridging solutions out there offered by many vendors in order to enable WPA with TiVo, but having only recently upgraded my home network, I needed a neat and tidy solution, less peripherals, less wiring, firewalls etc. to worry about. The TiVo adapter looks neat and compact and has worked very well (under both WEP and WPA mode testing) on my network thus far.

Hope this helps! Good luck in your decision!


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## pjjanthony (Mar 2, 2004)

TiVoDoughBoy said:


> This is all so exciting... the Fall 2006 Service Update. Full of new... er... enhanced... um, uh... full of... *sigh* features to make it work... just like it... did. Six months ago. For all of these new features I'd gladly pay extra. Oh, that's right, no real new features, just fixes. To make it work again. Like it used to. Six months ago. But heck, why not go ahead and raise the rates anyway?
> 
> O.K., I feel a little better. Just been a frustrating autumn season for me and TiVo. Loyal customer with a Series 1 and two Series 2's, been on board for four years. My Series 2's been so slow since 7.3.1 that even my elementary school-aged children are complaining about the guide and navigation. And we've put up with that for 3 months. Here comes Series 3, great! Only $800. Yeah, sure, I'll pick that up after my $600 PS3. And now, after living with these 7.3.1 problems, the rates go through the roof, comparatively. Sure, I get grandfathered in with my current rates, for now, but TiVo reserves the right to back out on that, too.
> 
> I know I'm just one customer, but forgive me if I don't get too excited about a brand new release of the software who's most exciting new feature is that it fixes all the problems of the previous release and gets me back to where things work again. TiVo's got some work to do to earn back some lost loyalty, respect, and continual good word-of-mouth from this one long-time customer...


This is the way the software business is. Look at how many years people had to put up with Windows 98/2000 before they fixed all the bugs with XP. At least we only had to wait six months to have the bugs fixed rather than four years!


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

highgrovemanor said:


> Anyone know why the tivo adapter is required for WPA? I was excited about moving away from WEP...but now not so much.


Every time TiVo used a 3rd party adapter and did the software the vendor would change the hardware and user could not load new drivers from a CD like a person could do on a PC. TiVo branded their own adapters so you did not have to look at the model number of the 3rd party adapter to make sure it was compatible. Now with one software driver TiVo can handle all wireless connections for a user for a user cost of $59. The TiVo adapter is faster also.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

highgrovemanor said:


> Anyone know why the tivo adapter is required for WPA? I was excited about moving away from WEP...but now not so much.


It is all about processing. The Tivo wireless adapter does a lot of the networking processing within the adapter and not the Tivo. Using other adapters with WPA could be too much strain and cause issues. That and above reply by less is probably why.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

highgrovemanor said:


> Anyone know why the tivo adapter is required for WPA? I was excited about moving away from WEP...but now not so much.


Then get a "gaming adapter" as wireless bridges are often called, and connect that to your TiVo. Voila, WPA.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

TiVoDoughBoy said:


> This is all so exciting... the Fall 2006 Service Update. Full of new... er... enhanced... um, uh... full of... *sigh* features to make it work... just like it... did. Six months ago. For all of these new features I'd gladly pay extra. Oh, that's right, no real new features, just fixes. To make it work again. Like it used to. Six months ago. But heck, why not go ahead and raise the rates anyway?


Gee ... that didn't take long. Was wondering how long it was going to take someone to complain about 8.1. 

Some of us have been waiting a long time for WPA support, so the networking changes are big for me. Yes, it's too bad that 7.3.x performance sucked for some (myself included). The 8.1 code downloaded for me earlier this evening and there are clearly significant improvements over 7.3 on my DT, and that's even before letting the indexing finish.

7.3 had a lot of stuff in it, and it probably got released sooner than it should have. As a former systems and application programmer, I appreciate the fact that Tivo isn't trying to cram in "major" features every release - the "schedule" seems to be four releases a year - I like that at least one of them is a "take a breather and squash the bugs or optimize the code" release, like 8.1 seems to be on the surface.

But I suspect that there's more to 8.1 than meets the eye - perhaps there's code we don't see that provides support for the new broadband stuff that was just announced, so it's a bit premature to say there are no new features. There may be some that we just don't know about yet.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

highgrovemanor said:


> Anyone know why the tivo adapter is required for WPA? I was excited about moving away from WEP...but now not so much.


As others have said - easier for Tivo to write the drivers for hardware they designed. And, since the Tivo adapter can offload some of the network processing from the Tivo iteself, I want Tivo to do whatever they can to optimize its' performance and function.

I've used lots of wireless options for Tivo ever since they were first available. The Tivo Wireless G adapter is HANDS DOWN the best wireless option there is for Tivo, especially if you are going to use MRV or TTG over wireless.

I was underwhelmed when I went from wireless B to wireless G and just blown away when I went from wireless G (Netgear) to Tivo Wireless G.

I've gotten my friends who have Tivo to either convert to wired or the Wireless G adapter. All the other wireless options are pretty much a waste of time, money and energy unless all you want wireless for is guide data and service updates.

And don't underestimate the "cool" factor of the Tivo adapter itself


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

MickeS said:


> Then get a "gaming adapter" as wireless bridges are often called, and connect that to your TiVo. Voila, WPA.


Pretty much overkill for one Tivo - the GA/bridge will almost certainly cost more than the Tivo adapter and not provide the same level of performance.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> Pretty much overkill for one Tivo - the GA/bridge will almost certainly cost more than the Tivo adapter and not provide the same level of performance.


Actually, if you have a S2 DT (or S3) a bridge will provide about the same level of performance since a bridge also offloads a lot of the work similar to how the branded usb adapter does. Also, not using the usb port is definitely more efficient. I use both a bridge and the tivo branded adapter and for TTG their times are almost identical.


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## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

jfh3 said:


> Pretty much overkill for one Tivo - the GA/bridge will almost certainly cost more than the Tivo adapter and not provide the same level of performance.


I have a $30 buffalo whr-g54s router flashed with DDWRT at my entertainment center. It bridges over wireless with WPA to a linksys wrt54g at my cable modem, also flashed with ddwrt. Plugged into the buffalo is a tivo series3, an xbox running xbox media center, an xbox360, and a slingbox pro. And since it's a separate router with a real 200Mhz CPU and whatnot, performance is absolutely flawless. For thirty bucks.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Read my sig. I was lucky enough to buy 4 Belkin 7230-04 (Linksys WRT54G(L) clones with less firmware/PROM space) units for an average price of $20ish (after a plethora of mostly-successful rebates), and $80 for a four-location, 16-point Wired (at G speeds) network (  ) is awesome.

Best thing about them - no configuration needed, plug and really play, no reboots in months (they're almost all on UPSes near PCs and/or TiVos)

I've comapred the stated transfer speeds with the TiVo adapter, though ... and my setup is still a smidgen slower, so those TiVo adapters do have some good sauce in them. But you are paying extra! I imagine not having to use USB-Eth adapters may help somewhat, but I don't have any DTs (with an ethernet jack) to test with. Maybe when the S3 supports MRV/TTG ...


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## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

rodalpho said:


> I have a $30 buffalo whr-g54s router flashed with DDWRT at my entertainment center. It bridges over wireless with WPA to a linksys wrt54g at my cable modem, also flashed with ddwrt. Plugged into the buffalo is a tivo series3, an xbox running xbox media center, an xbox360, and a slingbox pro. And since it's a separate router with a real 200Mhz CPU and whatnot, performance is absolutely flawless. For thirty bucks.


I was heavily considering this configuration, but I wasn't sure if the wifi repeater/bridge nature of the setup would slow down the transfers to less than realtime. Since you have a S3 I guess you can't really tell yet about Tivo mpg transfers over this network.
Since I've already purchased a TivoG adapter (awaiting delivery) a little late for me...but I am now considering your setup for my xbox360. (I already have the WRT54g) Save me the cost of those pricey 360 wifi adapters.


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## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

I can't tell about the tivo transfers, but my xbox media center streams 960x540p xvid movies with AC3 audio over SMB from my windows XP desktop just fine. Upscales em to 1080i too.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

I'd be stunned if a G bridge ever turned out to be the bottleneck in a TiVo S2 transfer 

My network manages 15-25 MBPS between PCs!


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## mrjam2jab (Jul 23, 2004)

I got the 8.1 update overnight...didnt sign up for priority...Havent had a chance to play yet....

but can ya set a SP from a show's info screen yet??? Cant tell ya how many time i find a show in suggestions...and would like to see more of...and hate to go thru the Find Programs route...when show info is already there...


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## ebf (Mar 21, 2005)

mrjam2jab said:


> I got the 8.1 update overnight...didnt sign up for priority...Havent had a chance to play yet....
> 
> but can ya set a SP from a show's info screen yet??? Cant tell ya how many time i find a show in suggestions...and would like to see more of...and hate to go thru the Find Programs route...when show info is already there...


YES, please add this feature!


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## TiVoDoughBoy (Nov 8, 2004)

pjjanthony said:


> This is the way the software business is. Look at how many years people had to put up with Windows 98/2000 before they fixed all the bugs with XP. At least we only had to wait six months to have the bugs fixed rather than four years!


Agreed, but Windows 98 and 2000 (two completely different code bases, by the way) didn't break stuff that worked in 95, and that's the difference for me. Yup, I'm excited to get 8.1. What bothers me is that I have to get excited to get back stuff that used to work -- performance and that annoying problem when you watch a show that hasn't finished recording (or one being transferred via MRV) that was mentioned earlier. If it was fixing annoyances that were already there, sure, the analogy to Windows holds up, but in this case, it was a release that was rushed and it amazes me, considering the number of affected customers just on these forums, that these issues weren't uncovered before it was pushed out to everyone.

And that coupled with the recent price increases. Just bad timing. Bad for business. And honestly, I want TiVo to survive!


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## Smackfu (Mar 15, 2001)

I signed up for the priority list and then tonight checked the Sys Info, and my Tivo was "pending restart". So I figured I'd just restart it and see the new features early... Well, that was a mistake.

"Preparing the service update. This may take up to an hour, possibly longer."

Oops.


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## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

rodalpho said:


> I have a $30 buffalo whr-g54s router flashed with DDWRT at my entertainment center. It bridges over wireless with WPA to a linksys wrt54g at my cable modem, also flashed with ddwrt. Plugged into the buffalo is a tivo series3, an xbox running xbox media center, an xbox360, and a slingbox pro. And since it's a separate router with a real 200Mhz CPU and whatnot, performance is absolutely flawless. For thirty bucks.


Thanks Rodalpho! I went out and purchased the buffalo g54s...flashed it with the DD-WRT firmware (nice interface). The pc->tivo transfers are still better than real time....and it saved me the cost of buying an xbox wifi adapter as well!

Guess I'll be sending back the Tivo WirelessG adaptor that arrived today


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## berkchops516 (Dec 5, 2005)

grrrrrr, in the middle of watching battlestar galactica, at exactly 2am, my tivo decided (without any prompt) to shut down and do the install.........im PISSED!


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Smackfu said:


> I signed up for the priority list and then tonight checked the Sys Info, and my Tivo was "pending restart". So I figured I'd just restart it and see the new features early... Well, that was a mistake.
> 
> "Preparing the service update. This may take up to an hour, possibly longer."
> 
> Oops.


I got that too, but it only took 15 minutes. Much better after the update.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Smackfu said:


> I signed up for the priority list and then tonight checked the Sys Info, and my Tivo was "pending restart". So I figured I'd just restart it and see the new features early... Well, that was a mistake.
> 
> "Preparing the service update. This may take up to an hour, possibly longer."
> 
> Oops.


I've never seen a service update take longer than 15-20 minutes. Most people never see it anyway, since it's usually done at 2 am.


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## Bimwad (Jul 4, 2005)

I'm happy to report that 8.1 seems to have restored my unit to normal operating speed, so in at least one respect, they've fixed things. Users who found that 7.3 crippled their boxes should sign up for the priority list -- don't wait.

I still don't believe that the half-baked 7.3 release and slow response to its bugs was handled in the most customer friendly manner, but that's in the past now. Let's hope that some lessons were learned at TiVo HQ and the next seasonal update won't be like playing roulette again.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

I suspect we'll see larger (and perhaps longer) betas of new releases. 

Side-beneift: If everyone getting the release is under NDA, that'll keep the grumbling under control.


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## dmarchus123 (Nov 18, 2006)

Bimwad said:


> I'm happy to report that 8.1 seems to have restored my unit to normal operating speed, so in at least one respect, they've fixed things.


May I ask what kind of TiVo you have? I received the update yesterday and my S2 is still slooooow. I literally have to wait several seconds before every action. This is pretty much what it's been doing since 7.3 rolled out. It's driving me crazy!


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

I added my S2 to the TiVo priority list on Thursday and forced several connections on Friday and last evening the "pending restart" message appeared. I forced a restart and since it could take up to an hour to install, I went to sleep.

This morning the original S2 response is back, if not even faster than before. 
The menus, guides, 30 second skip are just like old times and just as fast as my S1. 

Now based on what I have read, it is time to buy the TiVo network adapter for better speed and security.

Thanks, TiVo staff. A mistake was made that caused the slow response when you implemented the Spring/Summer Kids Zone upgrade, but you recognized it and fixed the problem.


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## Prowest (Aug 18, 2005)

I got the 8.1 update on both my TiVo units last night (S2-DT and S2-ST). They are so fast now I have to check to make sure that my TiVo is even hooked up!!!!

 
:up: :up: :up: :up: :up: 

Nice job TiVo team!
Dave


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

dmarchus123 said:


> May I ask what kind of TiVo you have? I received the update yesterday and my S2 is still slooooow. I literally have to wait several seconds before every action. This is pretty much what it's been doing since 7.3 rolled out. It's driving me crazy!


Are you sure it's installed? With 8.1, got it last night, my TiVo is once again EXTREMELY fast. It responds instantly to any command. HUGE difference.

I noticed they had changed the option at the end of a show to not delete from "Don't Delete" to "Keep this recording". Any other small changes like that?


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

berkchops516 said:


> grrrrrr, in the middle of watching battlestar galactica, at exactly 2am, my tivo decided (without any prompt) to shut down and do the install.........im PISSED!


I think the TiVo TOS says something about you not watching TV after 2am, that it's much too late and you should be sleeping.  It right after the paragraph about recording Teleworld broadcasts Wednesday mornings at 6am.


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## mcapiro (Jan 26, 2005)

Received the update here last night and my TiVo is back!!! I did notice one annoying difference, however. I used to be able to hit the pause button when I was browsing the guide and it would pause live TV in the background. I'm no longer able to hit the pause button when I have the guide up. Where (other than here) should I report this in order to get it fixed?


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## bkane (Aug 30, 2006)

I got the update yesterday too. Speed looks to be improved which is much appreciated. Dont know about the other features yet. Just glad the speed is better.


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## E94Allen (Oct 16, 2005)

mcapiro said:


> Received the update here last night and my TiVo is back!!! I did notice one annoying difference, however. I used to be able to hit the pause button when I was browsing the guide and it would pause live TV in the background. I'm no longer able to hit the pause button when I have the guide up. Where (other than here) should I report this in order to get it fixed?


Yeah I believe it is a bug because I hit pause then pressed guide. I was able to hit play but not other way around like you mentioned about this bug.


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## mike3775 (Jan 3, 2003)

I lovew that the speed issues have been fixed.

I do miss the pause when looking through the guide though, but its not that big of deal as the speed issues are what I really wanted fixed.


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## mfrns0123 (Mar 25, 2005)

My Tivo is back to normal........... :up: :up: :up:


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## Sandlapper (Oct 26, 2003)

Just signed up, can't wait for my Tivo to be back to normal!


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## 2004raptor (Dec 31, 2005)

Got my update overnight so I saw it this morning. Speed is back to normal. Haven't seen any other changes but haven't used it much either./


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## VanGoghLikesTivo (Jan 18, 2005)

I just got the update on my Humax DRT400 DVD Tivo. Overall, it is much faster than before. The Humax is still not as fast as my TiVo S2 model, but it is greatly improved from the last version of the software. For example, the Humax is slower than my other Tivo S2 when bringing up the main menu, Now Playing lists, etc.

There are also some bugs in the 8.1 software. For example, when playing a program from the program details screen, then hitting left from watching the program, you still see the "Play" item for a few seconds before its changed to "Resume Playing." IF you hit select before it changes, then you start over from the beginning instead of where you were in the program. Also, in Now Playing, if you delete an item and move the cursor while it has the "X" beside it, when the item is deleted, the selection changes again. This creates problems when deleting multiple entries.

Hopefully TiVo will continue to improve on the software.


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## elzicord (Jun 21, 2002)

Has anyone else had a problem with 8.1 breaking MRV? One of my TiVos got 8.1 last night and now it can no longer see my other TiVos on the network, nor can they see it. (In other words, the 8.1 TiVo has no little DVR icons at the bottom of its Now Playing and the other TiVos have icons for each other, but not for the 8.1 TiVo.)

The network adaptor is definitely working - I successfully forced a service connection, and was also able to stream music and see photos from my computer. It just seems to be the Tivo-to-TiVo connections that are messed up. I also doublechecked my settings at the TiVo website and all the TiVos have the box checked to allow transfers.

Anybody else experience this problem or have any idea how to fix it?


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

Got the update. My S2DT no longer allows pass-through of video when put on standby. The TV is black (no live tv) unless the tivo is turned on and live tv is selected.


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## duh869 (Mar 29, 2005)

I put my tivo (s22dt) on standby and my tv would not play live tv. its black. to watch tv tivo needs to be on...


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## Bimwad (Jul 4, 2005)

dmarchus123 said:


> May I ask what kind of TiVo you have? I received the update yesterday and my S2 is still slooooow. I literally have to wait several seconds before every action. This is pretty much what it's been doing since 7.3 rolled out. It's driving me crazy!


565 - Toshiba DVD burner


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## xStainDx (Jan 9, 2005)

WPA network security,

Thank You TiVo!!! About Freaking Time! :up:


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## Double-Tap (Apr 18, 2002)

Now it's too fast. Just kidding. Working much better.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

I've noticed one thing about 8.1 and MRV -- when I brought over a program yesterday, the program information listing showed that the program was recorded off channel "7-0" instead of channel 7.


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## Pab Sungenis (Apr 13, 2002)

bicker said:


> I've noticed one thing about 8.1 and MRV -- when I brought over a program yesterday, the program information listing showed that the program was recorded off channel "7-0" instead of channel 7.


Hmmm. Interesting.

8.0 on the S3 was designed to use digital television channel numbers like 7-1 and so on. 7-0 would be equivalent to NTSC channel 7. 8.1 on the S2 is the same basic codebase.

This is obviously a glitch or bug of some kind, but it might be a hint that they are somehow preparing (with 8.x) for the S2's to eventually receive MRV from S3's.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Pab Sungenis said:


> This is obviously a glitch or bug of some kind, but it might be a hint that they are somehow preparing (with 8.x) for the S2's to eventually receive MRV from S3's.


We've known for months that this release is part of the merging of the S3 and S2 code base. I don't think it hints at any type of MRV support since they will be sharing a single code base. They will have the ability to turn these things on/off so it doesn't affect their ability to use the same code base.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Just to be clear, this was only evident while I am reviewing the program information details on my Pioneer box for programs in the Now Playing list on my Humax. I'm not sure if it works the other way 'round, and once the program is transferred onto the Pioneer box, I the artifact does goes away (I just see that it was recorded on Channel "7"). What's interesting is that neither as it is transferring, nor after the transfer has stopped, does it say that the program came from my Humax DVR. I thought it used to specifically indicate a transferred recording.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I noticed when picking a program to record off of the 'grid guide', and after confirming that recording, the Tivo returns to the grid guide and highlights a show at the top of the grid...not the one I just asked it to record. 

Before the update this did not happen. It always returned to the grid guide highlighting the show I just asked it to record.

Not a major issue...just annoying.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Got the update and went to record a football game today from the guide, hit record, did record this episode then got the new feature to pad right there

LOVE that, great feature


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

Here's a new bug in 8.1:

Folders on. Go into "Now Playing", then into "Suggestions". Scroll down a few pages.

Hit select on a show to view its details. Hit Left Arrow to go back to the Suggestions list.

Tivo returns to the top of the suggestions list, not at the program you just inspected. So now you've lost your place, and have to page through the list again.

I'm impressed at Tivo's ability to deliver new bugs with each round of fixes for the old ones.


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## spongebob626 (Nov 19, 2006)

this software is even worse than the previous version, my tivo was slow before, nw its locking up on the now playing list screen. Its about time I trash my tivo's and get something else.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

mportuesi said:


> Here's a new bug in 8.1:
> 
> Folders on. Go into "Now Playing", then into "Suggestions". Scroll down a few pages.
> 
> ...


I was just about to post about this, I found it last night after my upgrade.

Working in any subfolder with multiple pages, go into an item's description (on any page but the first page). Then hit the left arrow to go back. The highlight retains its relativfe position in the list (ie, 6th item on the screen), however it always jumps you back to the 1st page. When managing large folders, it's infuriating!!!

Until this is fixed, you can no longer dive in and out of item descriptions. You must page down while in the description if you don't want to lose your place. This is going to be insufferable when trying to find the right recipe on my 100+ episodes of Food 911.

This, and the pausing bug after bringing the guide up!!! I can't imagine these things weren't noticed in Beta (if this went through proper beta). I hope they didn't determine that we could live with these bugs!! Was this all so we could get a half-assed WPA implementation?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

It would be nice if TiVo would do a release that focused on fixing the user interface bugs. They seem to be growing by the minute.


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

Mike Farrington said:


> I can't imagine these things weren't noticed in Beta (if this went through proper beta).


+1

I found the bug within an hour of receiving the upgrade. I'm amazed someone didn't find it sooner. Or maybe someone did find it, and Tivo figured shipping the bug was OK.


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## E94Allen (Oct 16, 2005)

TiVoPony did say that there will be small update this year then big update next year. I assume that small update will be for fixing bugs found in 8.1


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

mportuesi said:


> Here's a new bug in 8.1:
> 
> Folders on. Go into "Now Playing", then into "Suggestions". Scroll down a few pages.
> 
> ...


To be fair, I think both their developers have been working hard on this.


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## filburt1 (Apr 23, 2005)

Random observation: there's been at least one minor formatting change in the Now Playing XML. The SourceChannel nodes no longer use the format _nn-0_, but instead, just the exact channel number. For example, <SourceChannel>38</SourceChannel> instead of <SourceChannel>38-0</SourceChannel>.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

MikeMar said:


> Got the update and went to record a football game today from the guide, hit record, did record this episode then got the new feature to pad right there
> 
> LOVE that, great feature


+1! :up:

Did it with todays nascar race.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Mike Farrington said:


> I was just about to post about this, I found it last night after my upgrade.
> 
> Working in any subfolder with multiple pages, go into an item's description (on any page but the first page). Then hit the left arrow to go back. The highlight retains its relativfe position in the list (ie, 6th item on the screen), however it always jumps you back to the 1st page. When managing large folders, it's infuriating!!!
> 
> ...


This is similar to what I found.

I'll check to see if this also happens to me.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

elzicord said:


> Has anyone else had a problem with 8.1 breaking MRV? One of my TiVos got 8.1 last night and now it can no longer see my other TiVos on the network, nor can they see it. (In other words, the 8.1 TiVo has no little DVR icons at the bottom of its Now Playing and the other TiVos have icons for each other, but not for the 8.1 TiVo.)
> 
> The network adaptor is definitely working - I successfully forced a service connection, and was also able to stream music and see photos from my computer. It just seems to be the Tivo-to-TiVo connections that are messed up. I also doublechecked my settings at the TiVo website and all the TiVos have the box checked to allow transfers.
> 
> Anybody else experience this problem or have any idea how to fix it?


I haven't seen this happen on 8.1, but it did happen to me a couple of releases ago. What I did to fix it was to disable transfers for all the Tivos on my account on the web site, force connections to get the updates, enable them on the web site and force connections. Might take a couple hours between the time you update the web preferences and the time the servers see the updates for download.


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## Fraser+Dief (Nov 18, 2005)

mportuesi said:


> Here's a new bug in 8.1:
> 
> Folders on. Go into "Now Playing", then into "Suggestions". Scroll down a few pages.
> 
> ...


Incredible. Do they even bother to do 10 minutes of beta testing any more?

This isn't some obscure bug. This is basic standard operating procedure that somehow passes through QA.

Or worse, just gets ignored when reported.


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## ruindpzzle (Apr 7, 2006)

TivoLaddie said:


> Just visited the TiVo site and see they have released the software ver. 8.1 upgrade priority list for all Series 2 owners.
> 
> One of my Series 2's already updated back on Nov 1. Definitely a good upgrade, faster, and offers WPA level encryption on my wireless home network!
> 
> ...


Thanks so much, I read abotu the update on engadget or gizmodo (i don't remember) and I've been connecting manually for the past few days to get the update. 
Thanks!!


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

mportuesi said:


> Here's a new bug in 8.1:
> 
> Folders on. Go into "Now Playing", then into "Suggestions". Scroll down a few pages.
> 
> ...


Are you sure this is new? I could've sworn I saw that in 7.3 too. Anyone who has 7.3 still and can confirm?


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## moonscape (Jul 3, 2004)

MickeS said:


> Are you sure this is new? I could've sworn I saw that in 7.3 too. Anyone who has 7.3 still and can confirm?


it's new. my 7.3 doesn't have this annoyance, and i'm not looking forward to it in the update


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

The two things I noticed are as follows:

Good: My macros on my Pronto for the Tivo Central shortcuts work better now. Before it wouldn't recognize my button presses quickly enough to allow them to work.

Bad: NPL takes a lot longer to populate. Ugh!

Has anyone shifted to WPA from WEP and noticed any performance change, one way or the other?


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

jlb said:


> The two things I noticed are as follows:
> 
> Good: My macros on my Pronto for the Tivo Central shortcuts work better now. Before it wouldn't recognize my button presses quickly enough to allow them to work.
> 
> ...


really, both my key pressing and loading of the NPL FLY!!! It's so fast, it's awesome


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## ArcticZ (May 23, 2004)

yep also got the update on friday and my tivo 540 model is much faster and better! I can change channels live and the bar up top changes much faster now. I have not found anything bad on this update for how i use the tivo. Much better then 7.3!!


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## Schmye Bubbula (Oct 14, 2004)

spongebob626 said:


> this software is even worse than the previous version, my tivo was slow before, nw its locking up on the now playing list screen. ...


Yeah, I've had a couple of freezes in the Now Playing list: while traversing up & down the shows, it randomly locked when landing on one. Had to pull the plug to reboot.


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## toots (Feb 24, 2003)

Got this update on one of my S2s yesterday.

Prior to the update, operating that TiVo worked like this:

1) Turn on TV
2) Press "TiVo" button
3) Go make sandwich
4) Eat sandwich (about halfway through the sandwich, the TiVo central menu starts to appear as a transparent overlay)
5) Get a can of pop
6) Finally get the TiVo Central menu, select "now playing"
7) Take first two sips of pop
8) select program to watch

Likewise, I could expect a 10-30 second lag on interrupting the program, or waiting for the "do you want to delete" prompt at the end.

With the update, I hit the TiVo button, and the TiVo Central menu came up before I could even get up to make the sandwich.

Don't know if this could be entirely attributed to recent reboot, or if indeed the new release has sped up the UI, but it is nice to see some immediate correlation between remote button presses and changes in the state of the TiVo.


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## Crazydiamond (Aug 2, 2006)

Thanks for the links to the update - got it sunday. Have not done much more than upgrade to WPA2 on my two Tivo's - but I am so thankful for that feature! Bye Bye WEP! Hello security for whole home network!

Have not noticed any other changes - but will post in the next few days if I do.


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## sketcher (Mar 3, 2005)

duh869 said:


> I put my tivo (s22dt) on standby and my tv would not play live tv. its black. to watch tv tivo needs to be on...


I just got the update over night and this morning when I turned the tv on I had this same issue - but rather than a black screen, I got static. I thought the cable was out. (I'm sure the difference is in the tv design)


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## jlb.x (Apr 8, 2003)

I received the update on both of my S2 stand alone boxes over the weekend. Two thumbs up for the remarkably better interface speed. I don't know for certain, but I think it is still a little slower than it used to be prior to the previous update.

I haven't noticed any other significant bugs or problems at this point.


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## DVDerek (Sep 30, 2002)

Wow - WPA only implemented for the over-priced TiVo broadband adapter. That's really disapointing. I implented WPA on my network while this update was installing. Changed over the passwords on all of my clients and then when the TiVo was tready, went to setup my TiVo...

I've got the Netgear USB Adapter - you know, the one with the TiVo logo on the box and everything. Still no love for me. Now I've got to go through the huge PAIN of going back to WEP and it's manual 26 character key that I have to re-input on all of my cleints again...

Another half-assed update, brought to you by TiVo!


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## DVDerek (Sep 30, 2002)

I should add some nice things too - It's not *all* bad...

1. Speed has returned. Of course, it should have never gone away, but... wait, I'm trying to be nice here.

2. The Live Event padding is an honest-to-goodness feature release. I can't remember the last time we saw a new feature that was related to the core of what TiVo does - record TV - and not to something like HMO. Hopefully this will be a trend.

I'd love to see TiVo get smarter about handling show data. Like others have suggested, when I'm looking at details for a recorded program it should be a few remote clicks to look at setting up more recordings (either one offs or a season pass). This seems like a no-brainer feature to me.

I'm now considering dropping the $60 on the TiVo adapter. My Netgear works just fine - not a single issue since it's been in operation - but I really want to stay with WPA. The wireless bridge option is not really ideal for me because it would add so many cables to my setup (bridge power, ethernet cable from TiVo to the bridge). I do have an apple airport express in there which can function as a wireless bridge and does have an ethernet port, but I'm not sure it can function as a wired-to-wireless bridge... that might be an option, though.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

DVDerek said:


> I've got the Netgear USB Adapter - you know, the one with the TiVo logo on the box and everything. Still no love for me. Now I've got to go through the huge PAIN of going back to WEP and it's manual 26 character key that I have to re-input on all of my cleints again...


It's been known for a long time that WPA was only going to be supported on the TiVo adapter, and has been explained many times on here. I really don't know how you missed it.


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## DVDerek (Sep 30, 2002)

SullyND said:


> It's been known for a long time that WPA was only going to be supported on the TiVo adapter, and has been explained many times on here. I really don't know how you missed it.


I don't come into this forum very often. I only came to this thread after release to see if others were talking about it. Just because it's been explained that TiVo has said this will be the case does not mean that leaves TiVo beyond reproach on the topic, does it?

I could justify the added expense of the adapter if, say, TTG for the Mac had been delivered as indicated...

Crap, there I go with the not nice things, again.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

DVDerek said:


> Just because it's been explained that TiVo has said this will be the case does not mean that leaves TiVo beyond reproach on the topic, does it?


TiVo runs on Linux. Drivers for the hardware it supports needs to be available, and TiVo needs to support it. Hardware manufacturers continually change their hardware. One revision of a Linksys adapter works, the next revision doesn't. There is nothing TiVo can do to prevent this. Supporting only the TiVo adapter makes sense, and benefit's the user experience.


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## DVDerek (Sep 30, 2002)

SullyND said:


> TiVo runs on Linux. Drivers for the hardware it supports needs to be available, and TiVo needs to support it. Hardware manufacturers continually change their hardware. One revision of a Linksys adapter works, the next revision doesn't. There is nothing TiVo can do to prevent this. Supporting only the TiVo adapter makes sense, and benefit's the user experience.


I'm a technical guy - I get the technical reasons. This adapter carried the TiVo logo with the blessing of the folks at TiVo. I understand why TiVo ultimately decided to go in a different direction and sell their own adapter that they controlled.

The fact remains that there are a handful of adapters that TiVo had previously blessed as "TiVo Tested!" There are many users who went through the hassle of painstakingly checking hardware revision numbers on each adapter in the store and found one TiVo said would work... and work it did. Is it too much to expect that TiVo support WPA on this handful of adapters that they had previously blessed as compatible?

I'm not asking TiVo to support each and every adapter, just as Windows does. I'm asking that they support the specific models and revisions that they previously deemed compatible.


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## DVDerek (Sep 30, 2002)

Anyway, we could go on and on about that. I bit the bullet and picked up the TiVo adapter at Amazon for $15 cheaper than TiVo.com, which isn't too bad, I guess. I'll see what I can get on EBay for my other adapter to offset it.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

DVDerek said:


> The fact remains that there are a handful of adapters that TiVo had previously blessed as "TiVo Tested!" There are many users who went through the hassle of painstakingly checking hardware revision numbers on each adapter in the store and found one TiVo said would work... and work it did. Is it too much to expect that TiVo support WPA on this handful of adapters that they had previously blessed as compatible?
> 
> I'm not asking TiVo to support each and every adapter, just as Windows does. I'm asking that they support the specific models and revisions that they previously deemed compatible.


It isn't just a matter of compatibility. WPA apparently uses a lot of compute power, and the adapter that TiVo supports can offload a lot of those CPU cycles. The CPU in the TiVo doesn't exactly have cycles to spare.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

DVDerek said:


> Wow - WPA only implemented for the over-priced TiVo broadband adapter. That's really disapointing. I implented WPA on my network while this update was installing. Changed over the passwords on all of my clients and then when the TiVo was tready, went to setup my TiVo...
> 
> I've got the Netgear USB Adapter - you know, the one with the TiVo logo on the box and everything. Still no love for me. Now I've got to go through the huge PAIN of going back to WEP and it's manual 26 character key that I have to re-input on all of my cleints again...
> 
> Another half-assed update, brought to you by TiVo!


I had the Netgear G adapter before I got the Tivo wireless - like night and day. The Tivo G is close to wired speeds, while the Netgear was not much better than a wireless B connection.

If you want to take full advantage of wireless with Tivo - the Tivo branded adapter is the only way to go.


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## DVDerek (Sep 30, 2002)

CharlesH said:


> It isn't just a matter of compatibility. WPA apparently uses a lot of compute power, and the adapter that TiVo supports can offload a lot of those CPU cycles. The CPU in the TiVo doesn't exactly have cycles to spare.


I've moved on (and indeed ordered my TiVo brand adapter) but I'm curious as to why people think that this is the case - I've seen this stated a few times in this thread. I do know that the TiVo adapter offloads lots of the TiVo-related encryption for TTG transfers to the adapter resulting in better MRV/TTG speeds. Thats not really of interest to me since I own a Mac and have only 1 TiVo.

I will be the first to admit that I'm no WPA expert by any stretch, but I'd be surprised if it had any more PROCESSOR overhead than WEP. I'd be SHOCKED if this processor overhead was enough to cause issues on a system - even one as low-powered as the TiVo S2. In fact, WPA is built on WEP, so many of the same algorithms are still in use. I expect there may be some more network overhead, but not processor.

An honest question - has TiVo indicated here before that this is the case? As I said, I'm no expert, but I just want to know if you guys are all conjecturing on this point or if it's established fact.


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## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

DVDerek said:


> I'd be surprised if it had any more PROCESSOR overhead than WEP. I'd be SHOCKED if this processor overhead was enough to cause issues on a system - even one as low-powered as the TiVo S2.


http://kbserver.netgear.com/kb_web_files/n101190.asp

WPA "has greater performance overhead than WEP"


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## DVDerek (Sep 30, 2002)

Stu_Bee said:


> http://kbserver.netgear.com/kb_web_files/n101190.asp
> 
> WPA "has greater performance overhead than WEP"


Right - I didn't say I doubted that. I doubted that the overhead was in the processor. I think the overhead is on the network layer. But whatever. It isn't really worth arguing about here...


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Stu_Bee said:


> http://kbserver.netgear.com/kb_web_files/n101190.asp
> 
> WPA "has greater performance overhead than WEP"


This is sort of my concern before I shift over. If there is greater overhead, at whatever layer it is, I would have to believe it could affect TTG transfers. Just how much is anyone's guess.

I am really hoping some folks that have switched can chime in on how much longer, if at all, their transfers are taking. Right now with my TiVo adapters and about a73%-80%+ signal quality, I am transferring medium quality programs at a little better than real time (about 45-55 minutes if the SQ is good).



DVDerek said:


> Anyway, we could go on and on about that. I bit the bullet and picked up the TiVo adapter at Amazon for $15 cheaper than TiVo.com, which isn't too bad, I guess. I'll see what I can get on EBay for my other adapter to offset it.


That's where I bought my two adapters. In addition to the free shipping that would come with that, I was offered a 3 month trial to Amazon prime. So until I cancel in about 3 weeks, I get 2-day shipping for free. Nice! Did you get the offer too?


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

DVDerek said:


> I'm now considering dropping the $60 on the TiVo adapter. My Netgear works just fine - not a single issue since it's been in operation - but I really want to stay with WPA. The wireless bridge option is not really ideal for me because it would add so many cables to my setup (bridge power, ethernet cable from TiVo to the bridge). I do have an apple airport express in there which can function as a wireless bridge and does have an ethernet port, but I'm not sure it can function as a wired-to-wireless bridge... that might be an option, though.


TiVo doesn't deserve that $60. Take that money and buy a second WiFi router, and use that one for WEP-based connections (TiVo, old PDA, random outdated net appliances). It's not too difficult to prevent the WEP-router from getting to the rest of your network. But to do TTG, you'd need a more advanced multi-zone home firewall (Smoothwall, ASL, etc.).


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## DVDerek (Sep 30, 2002)

jlb said:


> That's where I bought my two adapters. In addition to the free shipping that would come with that, I was offered a 3 month trial to Amazon prime. So until I cancel in about 3 weeks, I get 2-day shipping for free. Nice! Did you get the offer too?


I'm actually an Amazon prime member already. My wife orders a lot of stuff for her work on Amazon.com so they got her a prime membership. She orders using her Corporate American Express card which has a billing address of our house. Amazon allows up to 4 people with the same billing address to be on one prime account...

Pretty sweet deal for me, but man it can be costly! Now I see something on amazon, I click once, and it's mine in two days!


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## DVDerek (Sep 30, 2002)

Mike Farrington said:


> TiVo doesn't deserve that $60. Take that money and buy a second WiFi router, and use that one for WEP-based connections (TiVo, old PDA, random outdated net appliances). It's not too difficult to prevent the WEP-router from getting to the rest of your network. But to do TTG, you'd need a more advanced multi-zone home firewall (Smoothwall, ASL, etc.).


You know, I didn't even consider this. However, once the TiVo is "upgraded" to the TiVo adapter, the only WEP only device I'll have is my Nintendo DS, which I have never once used online anyway...


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

DVDerek (and others clamoring for WPA support for adapters that currently have WEP support on TiVo's OS) ... I hope you realize that TiVo isn't WRITING these device drivers (that we know of, at least!). The "Linux Community' writes them when (and IF) the manufacturer makes the specs or a non-reverse-engineerable binary/API available. Without that, none of these would work.

I'd hardly blame TiVo ... in the grand scheme of things, Linux-based TiVos are a tiny fraction of all Linux systems out there, that could benefit from having more WEP & WPA drivers for more wireless devices.

Ohhh, and see my sig for the 'Ultimate' solution. Bridgable routers (with or without the need for a firmware upgrade). I have a 4-location, 16-port Belkin router-based home network. All seemingly wired as far as devices are concerned, yet protected with WPA (bahh, humbug ... not that difficult to crack either, I understand).


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

ashu said:


> DVDerek (and others clamoring for WPA support for adapters that currently have WEP support on TiVo's OS) ... I hope you realize that TiVo isn't WRITING these device drivers (that we know of, at least!). The "Linux Community' writes them when (and IF) the manufacturer makes the specs or a non-reverse-engineerable binary/API available. Without that, none of these would work.
> 
> I'd hardly blame TiVo ... in the grand scheme of things, Linux-based TiVos are a tiny fraction of all Linux systems out there, that could benefit from having more WEP & WPA drivers for more wireless devices.


It should be noted that most of the usb adapters TiVo supports do support WPA on linux. So its possible they will add WPA in the future for other devices. However, you have to wonder if TiVo is doing this to push their own adapter so they don't have to deal with so many incompatibility problems in the future.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

rainwater said:


> It should be noted that most of the usb adapters TiVo supports do support WPA on linux. So its possible they will add WPA in the future for other devices. However, you have to wonder if TiVo is doing this to push their own adapter so they don't have to deal with so many incompatibility problems in the future.


Gotcha ... also not an unreasonable explanation.

And for those saying the TiVo adapter isn't worth it compared to an Ultimate (bridged) network (see my sig) ... it IS because it's quicker (amazingly! with the CPU work offloading!). Unless you have a bunch of wireless devices at home (in which case performance drops F-A-S-T, compared to bridges).


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## id242 (Feb 24, 2006)

DVDerek said:


> You know, I didn't even consider this. However, once the TiVo is "upgraded" to the TiVo adapter, the only WEP only device I'll have is my Nintendo DS, which I have never once used online anyway...


I use the DS online all the time via the Opera DS.Browser (and w/SuperCard and its ability to run HomeBrew DS applications such as FTP & WinAmp radio), so WEP is something that I'll continue to use. The secondary security I use is just plugging my hardware ID's into the router's Wireless MAC ID Filters. The prior mentioned items as well as having MS.OneCare software firewall on my computer.

These may or may not be as secure as WPA, but they tend to work just fine for me.


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## moracity (Aug 24, 2006)

I got this update several weeks ago. The WPA support was long overdue. It took a few tries to get it working because it was holding onto the old WEP settings. 

My guide is still as slow and barely usable as 7.3. I was hoping it would go back to pre-7.3. I have to constantly listen to my wife complain about it. No improvement with the guide was a HUGE letdown. That and the WPA were the only two things I care about. I still don't understand the speed drop in the guide with 7.3.

Other than some visual artifacts when moving slowly through the guide, I haven't noticed any changes...good or bad.


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## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

ashu said:


> And for those saying the TiVo adapter isn't worth it compared to an Ultimate (bridged) network (see my sig) ... it IS because it's quicker (amazingly! with the CPU work offloading!). Unless you have a bunch of wireless devices at home (in which case performance drops F-A-S-T, compared to bridges).


Interesting..so you are saying the Tivo WirelessG adapter is faster than wired?
I thought the TivoAdapter just offloaded the cpu cycles that were required for the wireless protocol transport.

It doesn't matter too much to me, as my current wireless bridge:
Tivo---wired-->Router----wireless--->Router---wired-->PC
is still better than realtime for PC->Tivo transmission, which is all that really matters....

But still..interesting. Almost makes me want to take the TivowirelessG adapter (that I'm about to return) and see the speed differential. I'm guessing someones done real number comparisons already though.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

If the bottleneck is the USB chipset (on regular S2s you need to use a USB 10/100 adapter since there is no on-board network port) it is quite possible the TiVo wireless adapter could be faster than a 10/100 wired adapter.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Stu_Bee said:


> Interesting..so you are saying the Tivo WirelessG adapter is faster than wired?


Well, it depends on how its "wired". I.e. a usb to ethernet solution would be slower than using the ethernet ports that are on the S2 DT and the S3.

I have both a wired S2 DT and a wireless S2 DT (using the Tivo branded adapter) and the speeds are almost identical, but the wired seems to do TTG slightly faster (although it is connected directly whereas the other TiVo is about 30 feet away).


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

DVDerek said:


> I've moved on (and indeed ordered my TiVo brand adapter) but I'm curious as to why people think that this is the case - I've seen this stated a few times in this thread. I do know that the TiVo adapter offloads lots of the TiVo-related encryption for TTG transfers to the adapter resulting in better MRV/TTG speeds. Thats not really of interest to me since I own a Mac and have only 1 TiVo.
> 
> I will be the first to admit that I'm no WPA expert by any stretch, but I'd be surprised if it had any more PROCESSOR overhead than WEP.


First TTG transfers do not involve doing encryption, that happens at record time. There is remuxing of audio done to make a single useable media file for the PC. That overhead is done by CPU processing but is not offloaded to the wireless adapter.

USB to ethernet adapters also have CPU overhead. On a poweful CPU like a Windows PC or LINUX server it is not very noticeable. WEP adds more overhead and as you noted WPA is built on top of that and adds in more CPU needs.

The TiVo adapter does offload the specific USB and wireless processing to chips on the adapter thus making MRV and TTG less CPU intensive and considerably faster.

TiVo could open up WPA on the other adpaters but with the CPU used on the TiVo DVR the complaints about performance would abound and no one would want to use WPA in them anyway. The problem relates back to TiVo trying to make an inexpensive box and the other USB wireless adpaters made for more powerful CPU systems. The TiVo adapter is more expensive as it has chips to process the work offloaded to it, other adapters do not have the expense of those extra chips. In a way it is putting the added cost of wireless processing on us that wants to use wireless.


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## The Watcher (Nov 20, 2006)

Signed up for the priority update yesterday at work, and was installed by the time I got home. Seemed to fix the horrible lagtime -- thank god it was a Tivo issue, thought my 3 year old S1 was going bad...

Stuart


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Stu_Bee said:


> Interesting..so you are saying the Tivo WirelessG adapter is faster than wired?


No, I compared it to an Ultimate Brdiged (Wirelessly) network, as linked in my signature 

With an unloaded Wireless G network, the TiVo adapter is quicker than using a USB-ethernet adapter to a G bridge! As soon as you add other wireless devices to your (1st case) wireess network, though - such as a laptop, second TiVo etc, the contention slows down the router MUCH more than the 'semi-inherently load-balanced' performance you achieve with (wireless) Bridging.

My Bridges ONLY talk to each other, so all devices connected to any ONE bridge can potentially max out (in shared fashion) my G bridged network's bandwidth. Of course, my argument also breaks down when you compare/analyze two devices connected to separate bridges both wanting to talk to a third device on the third bridge  Then bridge #3 starts feeling the slowdown due to overload/contention.

Isn't this what 802.11N tries to address? By providing multipl up/down channels at the routers (or bridges)? I imagine an 802.11N bridged network would be the TRUE Ultimate network, then!


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## greygoose (Dec 24, 2005)

I requested the 8.1 update for my series 2 several days ago and received it last night after a manual "Connect to Network". 

I give this update a gigantic MEH because the UI is still very slow. It still takes 5-6 seconds for the guide to come up. When listing NPL and suggestions, the recordings are drawn on the screen one at a time.

I'm going to give it another reboot tonight to see if it makes any difference.


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## rpmkel (Nov 22, 2006)

Greetings all. I just got a message on Sunday that I received the Fall 2006 Software Update (8.1). My Humax Series 2 Tivo has been crashing ever since and won't stay up for more than a few minutes without rebooting and hanging at Welcome! Powering up. How do I get out of this hell and get my TV back? I definitely cannot recommend the Upgrade.


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## JohnH59 (Aug 1, 2006)

rpmkel said:


> Greetings all. I just got a message on Sunday that I received the Fall 2006 Software Update. My Tivo has been crashing every since and won't stay up for more than a few minutes without rebooting and hanging at Welcome! Powering up. How do I get out of this hell and get my TV back? I definitely cannot recommend the Upgrade.


Mine has not been crashing as much as you mention, but, my two 540's have rebooted at least twice daily since the update 2 days ago. So far, have not noticed a problem with the Toshiba.


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## DirkSwizzler (Sep 26, 2005)

FINALLY MY TIVO STOPS CRASHING ALL THE TIME.

My Tivo has been rebooting at least 3 times a day since the day it got the 7.3.1 update. The only way I found to stop the constant crashing was to leave my Humax DRT-800 playing a DVD in pause mode.

Got the update yesterday and it's been a full 24 hours of live tv and recorded programming without a single crash. Keeping my fingers crossed that all the crashes while 7.3.1 was installed didn't bork the filesystem somehow.




w0000000000000t.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

DirkSwizzler said:


> FINALLY MY TIVO STOPS CRASHING ALL THE TIME.
> 
> My Tivo has been rebooting at least 3 times a day since the day it got the 7.3.1 update. The only way I found to stop the constant crashing was to leave my Humax DRT-800 playing a DVD in pause mode.
> 
> Got the update yesterday and it's been a full 24 hours of live tv and recorded programming without a single crash. Keeping my fingers crossed that all the crashes while 7.3.1 was installed didn't bork the filesystem somehow.


Actually, you could have a failing hard drive. If the machine starts rebooting all the time after the NEXT service upgrade, it's pretty much a sure sign that you have a bad/failing drive.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

jfh3 said:


> Actually, you could have a failing hard drive. If the machine starts rebooting all the time after the NEXT service upgrade, it's pretty much a sure sign that you have a bad/failing drive.


I agree.

TiVo's have two partitions used for storing its software. When updates are installed, they are installed to the partition not currently being used. Once the update has been installed, that "other" partition now becomes the boot partition.

There is probably an issue in one of your two partitions, perhaps a physicial drive problem. It might be time to think about swapping out that hard drive.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Yup - bad/dying drives are frequently MOST noticeable during/after upgrades. Don't be like me and ignore the crashes until even the Maxtor tool no longer recognizes your clicking mess of an erstwhile hard drive. Twice on two TiVos! Yikes! 

Pre-emptive hard-drive replacement/upgrade is key!


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## beeman65 (Oct 18, 2005)

Got my update today and everything is blazing now! Guide, navigating, and channel surfing are now much faster for me.

In regards to the whole WPA issue, I suppose Tivo wanted to release this update with WPA with the fewest amount of problems. They can do this with their own wireless adapter. They probably figured fixing the speed of the system was the biggest thing and adding WPA support for third party adapters might kill the effectiveness of the release.


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## rpmkel (Nov 22, 2006)

for what it's worth, I got the 8.1 update on 11/19, my Tivo then froze for two days on 11/21 and 11/22. Tivo customer support said it sounded like a failed hard drive and I needed to take it up with Humax. But then on 11/23 I must have received some kind of update because it started working fine on 11/23 and has worked fine since. The only thing I did was to delete about 7 hours of programs.


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## danschn (Apr 22, 2004)

I read almost every Tivo freezing/crashing thread I could find since my Pioneer 810 DVD recorder started doing the same 3 weeks ago (the week of 11/06/06). Most users traced it back to September and 7.3. I don't know when I got 7.3, but I know my problems did not come on the heels of that update, nor can I remember a single September crash - excepting for troublesome network transfers (Back to Tivo?) that I tried to cancel. 

The freezing started as a trickle - once, three days later again, and then occurred several times a day, starting in the middle of the night. Oddly, it seemed to me at the worst, the machine was almost unusable from 8PM to 10PM for about 5 straight days, but would work fine starting between 10-11 PM until I stopped using it for the evening. But for 3 straight days I found it crashed about the same time between 2 and 3 AM when I think it was grabbing the schedule over the network.

I ruled out the bad hard drive, since so many people were experiencing similar problems simultaneously. I cleared out the ToDo list, and all the Season Passes. It took several attempts to reboot, while I had a lump in my throat waiting to see if it would ever make it back. Several more times it didnt make through connecting to get the schedule, and I had to restart. It finally finished everything, and I'd like to think performance improved, but I was still seeing some stuttering/crashing, but less.

I'm glad to report that early last week, I had my last crash, and no longer see any stuttering either. Menu speed has been largely restored. I replenished my Season Passes Throwing caution to the wind, I signed up for the 8.1 update anyway. It was installed by last Friday, but I can't see any difference in performance. It's all pretty good. 

Bottom line, for me the problem was solved before the 8.1 Update and may or may not have been coincidental to cleaning up the ToDo and Season Pass lists. If your same problem wasn't fixed with 8.1, hang tough for a little longer before assuming it's a bad hard drive. I speculate there's some other common denominators that caused a lot of users Tivo software to have near simultaneous poor performance.

I do wish there was a scan disk function within the UI just to ease all scary thoughts about a bad sector or a failing hard drive.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Got my update last Wednesday, but noticed it this weekend. Sweet! It runs so much better and no problems at all.


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## greygoose (Dec 24, 2005)

I am now experiencing audio/video stuttering during shows.


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

Snappier! Definitely faster, particularly on entering and exiting Now Playing. Also scrolling seems zippier!

The best aspect, however, is that they went back to the old display model-- if you select Play, it no longer shows the channel banner (a bad change introduced in one of the version 7s--7.3 IIRC). Still, however, if you press Play from the NP screen, it displays it. Wish it wouldn't (it's been like that for ages for several OSs); there's no need for it, but at least selecting the show and then picking Play works w/o it.


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## mrjam2jab (Jul 23, 2004)

I think i read most of the posts in here....but have since the update have seen this strange behavior...

Watching an episode of a show...there are currently a few other eps in the same folder. End of ep, I delete. I then get the message stating this group is now empty...or however it words it when you delete the last of the group. But i know there are others.....if i go back to NP there is the folder with correct (1 less) # of eps...then going back into folder they are there...


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## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

You'll probably want to post it over on the 8.1 bugs thread, so they are all in one place:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=327802


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## dcomiskey (Jan 3, 2005)

I am absolutely astounded by the fact that three months after releasing perhaps the buggiest s/w update ever, Tivo still seems to have it's collective head up its rear end. I was tempted to request a beta upgrade, but after reading the littany of issues, I'd be stupid to do so. I just can't believe how poorly this has been handled.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

dcomiskey said:


> I am absolutely astounded by the fact that three months after releasing perhaps the buggiest s/w update ever, Tivo still seems to have it's collective head up its rear end. I was tempted to request a beta upgrade, but after reading the littany of issues, I'd be stupid to do so. I just can't believe how poorly this has been handled.


8.1 is worth the upgrade, even with the issues, especially if you have speed issues - it's a LOT faster.


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## JasonD (Mar 30, 2003)

My 91 year old mother in law now says her Tivos are a lot faster after the upgrade. My wife says the Tivos are faster, and I say they are faster. Thank you Tivo for saving my reputation with my mother in law after recommending Tivo.

Jason


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## lajohn27 (Dec 29, 2003)

greygoose said:


> I am now experiencing audio/video stuttering during shows.


Your hard drive is failing. Sooner rather than later your TIVO will lock up and you will need to replace the HD.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

greygoose said:


> I am now experiencing audio/video stuttering during shows.


Some regional Comcast headends have been ahving CableCard issues. Everyone in Montgommery Cy. in MD is experiencing stuttering with CableCards, apparently in TVs too.

It could also be that your cable provider is picking up OTA transmissions and further broadcasting them over cable. This is common. But it can, occasioanlly, be subject to degradation due to bad weather. less than Satellite, but still ...

Of course,a dying hard drive is ALSO a very real possibility.


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## duhmel (Feb 16, 2005)

MickeS said:


> 8.1 is worth the upgrade, even with the issues, especially if you have speed issues - it's a LOT faster.[/QU
> 
> Speed is not too great an asset if the unit resets itself every hour


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

Both my Tivo's have gotten 8.1 and the one minor bug I had is gone. While speed was a problem in the past i have to say things do seem faster. Speed is always good.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

duhmel said:


> MickeS said:
> 
> 
> > 8.1 is worth the upgrade, even with the issues, especially if you have speed issues - it's a LOT faster.
> ...


FYI for those wondering whether this is true ... it seems to be that this user's issues stem from an unfortunate, dying hard drive. We're awaiting a response in one of his plethora of other (bad-mouthing) threads in which this has been discussed and remote-diagnosed by some of the brightst minds here 

As explained in the other threads, a dying hard drive is often 'caught' when an upgrade is pushed to TiVos, because it uses a less often (at-upgrades-only) section of the drive. Unfortunately this (wrongly) convinces many folks that TiVo's upgrade KILLED their hard drive! There are ways to (hopefuly) recover such drives temporarily (IMO) by forcing a disk check etc, but (IMO) a hard drive with even one bad sector is eventually going to die. Soon. And should be replaced. Sooner.


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## duhmel (Feb 16, 2005)

ashu said:


> FYI for those wondering whether this is true ... it seems to be that this user's issues stem from an unfortunate, dying hard drive. We're awaiting a response in one of his plethora of other (bad-mouthing) threads in which this has been discussed and remote-diagnosed by some of the brightst minds here
> 
> .


OK genius I took the hard drive our and no bad sectors. Tell me genius, has any of the 'brightest minds' that removed a phantom bad drive actually checked and found that they have a bad drive? I have never seen any post that claims this to be so. Maybe once the drive is out of the unit the bad sector gets better - hard drive heal thyself. :down:

I am now continuously recording (24 hours per day) and have not had a problem in 36 hours. Did my 'bad sector' heal itself, or have I gotten lucky and somehow that 'bad sector' is not being read? People who have hard failure and cannot boot may have a drive problem but sporiadic resets, triggered by a new software update smells and taste like a software glitch.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

duhmel said:


> OK genius I took the hard drive our and no bad sectors. Tell me genius, has any of the 'brightest minds' that removed a phantom bad drive actually checked and found that they have a bad drive? I have never seen any post that claims this to be so. Maybe once the drive is out of the unit the bad sector gets better - hard drive heal thyself. :down:
> 
> I am now continuously recording (24 hours per day) and have not had a problem in 36 hours. Did my 'bad sector' heal itself, or have I gotten lucky and somehow that 'bad sector' is not being read? People who have hard failure and cannot boot may have a drive problem but sporiadic resets, triggered by a new software update smells and taste like a software glitch.


First, there are rules against flaming on this forum which you should review if you are interested in remaining a member here. If you feel that another member has been unduly rude to you, the correct action would be to report their post to a moderator.

Second, your experiment of recording continuously will not yield any conclusive results as to the true nature of your problem, whether it turns out to be a bad hard drive, a bad software update, or gremlins. Here's why: All TiVos are always recording 24/7. The live tv buffer is (almost) always there, being written to disk whenever the tivo or cable box is tuned to a channel you can receive. So you've been recording 24/7 prior to the problem, while you experienced the problem, and you will continue to as long the tivo receives a recordable signal.

Ignoring the TiVo side of the equation, any drive that is in a state of failing may work fine for a while then refuse to work, then work again, for awhile. If there is any chance the drive has errors, or is exhibiting any unusual signs, the safest course of action is to assume total failure is imminent and to stop using the drive ASAP.

I am curious as to what steps you took to verify the drives integrity?


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

At this point, opcorn:

FWIW, I've ignored failing drives on TWO TiVos. Their respective ultimate demise(s) occurred between 3 & 8 months after I first noticed issues. As gonzo said, this can take FOREVER before it manifests itself more seriously/repeatedly or it may happen tomorrow.

And as the Mask once said, the question you have to ask yourself is "Do I feel lucky?"

Flames ignored, we're trying to help. It's an odds game - 99.99% of the people with the 8.1 update aren't seeing this issue, pointing to a hardware failure on YOUR device. It's unfortunate, but it will NOT help your cause to flame people who are attempting to help (however egotistic I, I mean they, may be)


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

I've appreciated the threads about the nature of the upgrade and disk failures... they've been informative. I've read several and haven't found them offensive or flames or excessively critical. 

The crack "Speed is not too great an asset if the unit resets itself every hour" was actually pretty funny! And it didn't waste too much bandwidth! (If it had merely been a long repost of some diatribe that would have been another matter.)

I just checked & searched the FAQ and couldn't find anything on flaming. It would be helpful to know where to look and what the terms are. The exchange here has ad hominem attacks--but does a two-post sarcastic exchange = flaming? If it persisted or didn't also include good information (on both sides) that would be another matter. Just one forum participants' observations!

It would be interesting to learn more about hard drives that apparently failed after an upgrade. It'd be good to hear from computer drive diagnosticians. What computer diagnostics have people run? Have people reformatted them for computer use and found they were successful? Or even reformatted for TiVos and had them work? Have the TiVo support folks here ever commented about the hard drive failures and the way the software upgrades work-- whether they block out bad sectors or not?

Fortunately, ours took the upgrade without a hitch.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

TiVoEvan74 said:


> I've appreciated the threads about the nature of the upgrade and disk failures... they've been informative. I've read several and haven't found them offensive or flames or excessively critical.
> 
> The crack "Speed is not too great an asset if the unit resets itself every hour" was actually pretty funny! And it didn't waste too much bandwidth! (If it had merely been a long repost of some diatribe that would have been another matter.)
> 
> I just checked & searched the FAQ and couldn't find anything on flaming. It would be helpful to know where to look and what the terms are. The exchange here has ad hominem attacks--but does a two-post sarcastic exchange = flaming? If it persisted or didn't also include good information (on both sides) that would be another matter. Just one forum participants' observations!


They're in a thread called "*** Forum RULES & GUIDELINES ***"
There are rules (and guidelines) regarding flaming, name calling, and flame-baiting.


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

Thanks! That's helpful. I wouldn't have found them without digging otherwise.

It'd be good if there were a direct link at the top of all the pages--such as there is for User CP, FAQ etc. -- or if they were made part of or linked to via the FAQ!


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## JamieP (Aug 3, 2004)

duhmel said:


> Maybe once the drive is out of the unit the bad sector gets better - hard drive heal thyself. :down:


For what it is worth, modern drives really are self healing, to a degree. The manufacturer reserves some spare sectors to "map out" bad sectors. A sector can only be mapped out when it is written, not when it is read, to prevent data loss.

If you have a way to query the SMART diagnostics on the drive (e.g. for linux, smartctl) you can find out how many bad sectors have been mapped out already. You can also find out if there are pending bad sectors that have been detected but not mapped out yet (waiting to be written). If too many bad sectors are mapped out, it's likely the drive won't last a lot longer before the spare sectors are exhausted.

There's more info on smart here. Many people with hacked tivos continuously monitor the smart status of their drives so they receive warnings before the drive completely fails.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

TiVoEvan74 said:


> Have people reformatted them for computer use and found they were successful?


At home, I have a 120GB WD, an 80GB Maxtor, an 80GB Maxtor and a 120GB Maxtor - all dead and removed from TiVos. Only one of them was rescuable (after freezing for two hours) to the extent it let me pull the initial few sectors off with MFSTools. It always overheated with any attempt to dd or ddrescue it to a destination drive.

So, all self-healing considered, all 4 dead TiVo drives I have at home (whether they camre originally with the TiVo or were added later - the pair of 120s were aded to S2 units with Weaknees brackets, where one of the dead 80's resides - one of the 80s is from my still-dead SDH400) have yielded 4 excellent, cool paperweights. None of them even is in a state that PC BIOS recognizes it. They're as dead as the Monty Python parrot.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

TiVoEvan74 said:


> Thanks! That's helpful. I wouldn't have found them without digging otherwise.
> 
> It'd be good if there were a direct link at the top of all the pages--such as there is for User CP, FAQ etc. -- or if they were made part of or linked to via the FAQ!


You seriously need a FAQ to tell people that it isn't nice to ... umm, not be nice to people?


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

TiVoEvan74 said:


> Thanks! That's helpful. I wouldn't have found them without digging otherwise.
> 
> It'd be good if there were a direct link at the top of all the pages--such as there is for User CP, FAQ etc. -- or if they were made part of or linked to via the FAQ!


It's a sticky at the top of the message list in this forum. Fourth one down. It's intentionally not hard to find.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

gonzotek said:


> They're in a thread called "*** Forum RULES & GUIDELINES ***"
> There are rules (and guidelines) regarding flaming, name calling, and flame-baiting.


For what it is worth, they're not enforced. The member flamed in this circumstance has done more than his own share of flaming in other threads, so bringing up the rules in this case is really irrelevant.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

bicker said:


> For what it is worth, they're not enforced. The member flamed in this circumstance has done more than his own share of flaming in other threads, so bringing up the rules in this case is really irrelevant.


The prior post of mine you didn't quote addressed that:


> If you feel that another member has been unduly rude to you, the correct action would be to report their post to a moderator.


It's a big community for the mods to oversee. Sometimes they need a little help. Have you reported any of this other flaming? I've seen plenty of appropriate enforcement actions take place here. Long-time members have had temp bans for flaming and other rule breaking, as well as spammers being kicked out permanently. Moderating isn't always any easy job, a lot of the time it requires case by case decisions, but the rules provide the framework that help them to make the choices. Perhaps a mod will decide nothing needs to be done, perhaps some members just need a friendly warning.


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

Another witty line "They're as dead as the Monty Python parrot." You all are cracking me up!

I realize you were partly kidding, but "nice" or rather "not nice" is in the eye of the beholder... especially given the wickedly funny satire that people post. (Say, maybe we can start an argument about what it means to be not nice!  just kidding folks!). Seeing the actual rules was helpful in knowing whether a single "not nice" post = flaming or is forbidden... which, apparently, it is.

As to their location... who looks at sticky posts at the top of a particular forum? I've read only one or two in all my time here... but when the issue of member behavior comes up, or rules about posting, it would be logical (as Spock often said) to have it be among the TiVo.com rules in the FAQ!

Interesting that your TiVo failed drives all really failed... any happen after an upgrade?


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

TiVoEvan74 said:


> Another witty line "They're as dead as the Monty Python parrot." You all are cracking me up!


At least someone noticed! Otherwise I'd have to stoop to being mean to somebody & force them to laugh so I could satisfy my massive ego.



TiVoEvan74 said:


> Interesting that your TiVo failed drives all really failed... any happen after an upgrade?


Yeah, two 120s (Maxtors both) failed as the 2nd drive in an S2 system. The original 80 outlived one, but died about the same time as the second. It was the heat and a dying fan that did the pair in, at the second failure. Now I have a nice Vantec heat-sensitive speed-varying fan in there, and a 250GB Hitachi.

I now buy only Seagates (well, and Hitachis. And Samsung, I guess). (yeah, I'm sparking another Holy War - this thread doesn't have quite enough of those  )


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## toots (Feb 24, 2003)

I view Maxtors with the same sort of longevity expectations that I used to view floppy disks.

For computers, I buy them 'cause they're cheap, take backups often, and expect to replace them at least once every 20 months.


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## Mike Lang (Nov 17, 1999)

bicker said:


> For what it is worth, they're not enforced. The member flamed in this circumstance has done more than his own share of flaming in other threads, so bringing up the rules in this case is really irrelevant.


The long list of people who can no longer access this forum from their own IP may beg to differ.  
However, the key is letting us know there's a problem by reporting a post and referring to previous examples so we can act on them.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

bicker said:


> The member flamed in this circumstance has done more than his own share of flaming in other threads, so bringing up the rules in this case is really irrelevant.


Whoa ... waidaminit. I thought I was the only member flamed here (and I already ignored it and added MORE helpful info)? And you CAN'T be talking about me, because I never flame anyone, right? 

I definitely express strong opinions, but never personal insults 

Was anyone else also flamed?


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

Hope that everyone who is considered to be guilty of "flaming" is given a warning or two before simply being bounced. And that *all* parties involved in an exchange are so cautioned. (It often is hard to determine who threw the first "punch" or which supposedly humorous satirical remark actually first crossed the line and actually caused the acerbic reply.)

My sense as a reader here is that the occasional barb, witty reply is fine (even enhances the reading fun), and if it falls in a grey area, or seems to cross the line to some, it's still OK as long as it is either short and sweet (a humorous one liner) or accompanied by a hefty dose of some good information that continues to inform and moves the thread along. Again, just one participants' perspective.

Now, to keep my post on topic... I've been impressed with another aspect of the update... and I don't know if it's just my imagination... but the speed of burning DVDs has increased dramatically!

My 2x discs are burning much faster and my 4x or 8x even faster yet than before!


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

gonzotek said:


> The prior post of mine you didn't quote addressed that:It's a big community for the mods to oversee. Sometimes they need a little help. Have you reported any of this other flaming?


Yes. Any one member's personal perspective on what would constitute flaming is not necessarily that which the moderators enforce here in my experience. That's not to say that they don't enforce anything, just not necessarily what you might expect given the wording of the rules and guidelines.


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## tazzftw (Mar 26, 2005)

My RX60 hasn't reset itself AT ALL (save for one power outage) since the update.

:up:


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

That's called rubbing it in!!


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Is this new in 8.1

when i go to my computer from the now playing list, i can use folders on my pc now!!!

this is AWESOME


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

MikeMar said:


> Is this new in 8.1
> 
> when i go to my computer from the now playing list, i can use folders on my pc now!!!
> 
> this is AWESOME


Hmm didn't work for me...


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Einselen said:


> Hmm didn't work for me...


Do you have the most recent TD? I don't and also don't see folders.


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## tazzftw (Mar 26, 2005)

TiVoEvan74 said:


> That's called rubbing it in!!


I was just saying that the update seemed to fix this problem. There's still a delay when you delete programs (and have a lot of them), but at least now the system isn't reseting itself when seemed to be three or four times a day. Sorry if you're still experiencing this problem.


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

Oh, no, I'm not having issues! No problems whatsoever with our Toshiba, pre or post any OS update! (Well, that is, save the 8.1 bugs or "features".) But my having said that is also rubbing it in, especially for those who are having problems!  For whom, I sympathize greatly!

Glad the update solved your resetting problem. We really have come to depend on the magic of TiVo, so it's really frustrating when it's not working right!


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