# HR24-500 or Wait for DirecTivo



## rcamille

I have been a loyal TiVo user since 2000. I switched from DirecTV to Cablevision when TiVo and DirecTV severed ties a few years back. I own two TiVo HD units and love them. 

After visiting a friend's home who has DirecTV, it was abundantly clear how lacking Cablevision is compared to DirecTV. Of course the big problem is that they still don't have a TiVo unit that will work on their system. Although a unit has been "promised" I feel like if I keep waiting I will never get anything.

Here is my dilemna. Do I switch to DirecTV now and get the HR24-500 or do I wait it out and hope that a DirecTivo is introduced by year end. Please dont suggest FiOs. It is not available i my area.

I would love to hear from people that have used TiVo and now have the DirecTV DVR. I love my TiVo's and am afraid I will hate the DirecTV DVR. I hated the Scientific Atlanta DVRs that Cablevision had.

Any input would be appreciated!!!


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## codespy

I've had all DirecTiVo's and the HR2X's have come a long way and the HR24's are Great.


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## TyroneShoes

rcamille said:


> ...I would love to hear from people that have used TiVo and now have the DirecTV DVR. I love my TiVo's and am afraid I will hate the DirecTV DVR. I hated the Scientific Atlanta DVRs that Cablevision had...


I think there is a lot of disinformation out there.

There is a lot of disinformation that the HD DVR is inferior to the Tivo units. It comes by that naturally due to the fact that it took a year or two before it got to the level of Tivo, and there were a lot of folks, myself among them, who outright revolted when the HD DVR debuted in the sorry shape it first appeared. The history of similar devices is that those that debuted in sorry shape never really improved, while those that debuted as a winner steadily improved. The HD DVR turned this logic on its head; I would have to say that I have never seen any product improve this much in such a short time.

Folks also forget that it took a couple years before Tivo was much to speak of also. In 1999 it was just not ready for prime time. By 2001, things had changed.

There is also a lot fierce loyalty to Tivo, and it also comes by that naturally. It is (if you ignore products from Apple) the single best-engineered piece of electronics in history. But that loyalty was earned half a decade ago, and time has marched on. IMHO, Tivo has not kept step and lost its place as industry leader, while the HD DVR stepped up.

There are a lot of HD DVR haters out there, and while some base that on what they remember rather than the state of things today, there are some things that Tivo just does better. Likewise, there are things that the HD DVR does better, and a lot of great features that Tivo never had or never even thought of.

So bottom line, I think it is best to take the chance rather than wait. You really have nothing to lose by trying the HD DVR. If you don't like it, let them know in no uncertain terms. Don't be shied away by all of the "contract" and "committment" BS; DTV wants happy customers. The last thing they want is you complaining that you are locked into something you hate and twittering to the world about it. They will make you happy one way or another, and will not be intractable if you just do not like the product.

You can wait, but any of us could be hit by a bus tomorrow, so I recommend against it. Trying the new DVR is not a rash move with painted-into-a-corner complications. And it is light years ahead of the Scientific-Atlanta DVRs.

It does take a commitment to learn a new UI. The Tivo UI is more user-friendly. But the difference is not so great as to cause lasting pain; you get used to it pretty quick, and eventually, even for those of us running both the HD DVR as well as HD DTivos, you might, as I have, come to prefer the new DVR even more.

Go for it, as you really have nothing to lose for the small investment in time and energy you will need to make. If you wait and never try the HD DVR, you will die wondering whether you should have taken that chance. If you try it and don't like it, then at least you will know where you stand.


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## jaywtivo

I used the D* HRxx units for a few years. They have come a long way, and in many ways are superior to Tivo.

HOWEVER, you need to ask yourself WHY you like Tivo so much. If you can't live without Tivo Suggestions, then you will be disappointed with the Directv units.

Also, if you have more than 50 season passes, forget it!

Directv has worked hard with the user community to create a great box. Its a good experience, but it isn't Tivo. 

I recently left DirecTV and switched to cable/Tivo for economic, and practical reasons. Aside from the fact Tivo is not done designing the premier, i am happy with my decision. 

However, I will soon be using Windows Media Center on most of my TVs, and I think this solution is the way to go. I may keep tivo for the kids.


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## whitepelican

TyroneShoes said:


> Don't be shied away by all of the "contract" and "committment" BS; DTV wants happy customers. The last thing they want is you complaining that you are locked into something you hate and twittering to the world about it. They will make you happy one way or another, and will not be intractable if you just do not like the product.


This is just wrong. DirecTV is not about to just let you walk away from your 2-year commitment if you find that you absolutely hate their DVR. There is no "trial period" to decide if you like it. If you decide after two days that you made a mistake and don't want their DVR and you want to cancel DirecTV, you will then owe them somewhere in the neighborhood of $500 to cancel. Their biggest objective is not making the customer "happy". It is making money. If you think their commitment/contract times aren't anything to be worried about, that is absolutely untrue. They will hold you to the commitment, and it could end up costing you a lot of money to get out of it. And once you sign up for that 2-year commitment, you've lost any and all bargaining power that you may have had with them.


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## 230

whitepelican said:


> This is just wrong. DirecTV is not about to just let you walk away from your 2-year commitment if you find that you absolutely hate their DVR. There is no "trial period" to decide if you like it. If you decide after two days that you made a mistake and don't want their DVR and you want to cancel DirecTV, you will then owe them somewhere in the neighborhood of $500 to cancel. Their biggest objective is not making the customer "happy". It is making money. If you think their commitment/contract times aren't anything to be worried about, that is absolutely untrue. They will hold you to the commitment, and it could end up costing you a lot of money to get out of it. And once you sign up for that 2-year commitment, you've lost any and all bargaining power that you may have had with them.


+1


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## cthomp21

I've had a number of DTivo's (hacked and networked) and a couple of HR10's. I really loved Tivo.

I've had some really horrible experiences with an older Dish DVR (don't remember the model number) and an early build SD D* DVR.

That said, I'm now networked with D* HD DVR's (one of them being an HR24), and I'm quite happy. They're still not an interface as polished and enjoyable as Tivo, but they're more than serviceable. The streaming MRV is worth the price of admission alone.

The HR24 is a big step up from the other HR2X's in terms of hardware (still runs the same interface). The D* remote is nowhere near as intuitive as the Tivo Peanut.

If you're open to the HR2X (get an HR24 if at all possible), you'll be at least satisfied with the experience. If you're a die-hard Tivo fanatic, you'll probably dislike them out of pure spite as the interface just isn't a Tivo.

Good luck!


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## codespy

Well said. :up:


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## jca

We actually just gave in and upgraded our service to HD from three standard def DirecTivos to three HR 2X DVRs. We held onto those three DirecTivo DVRs for as long as possible hoping for a DirecTivo HD replacement to fall out of the sky -- but our old 35" CRT TV finally died so we had to upgrade to an HD set, hence the dominoes fell and we upgraded the receivers.

As someone who actually uses Tivo Suggestions (it actually saved me by getting a recording I forgot to put in just last night), I'm really going to miss that feature since I use it all the time.

Anyway, there is no reason you should wait any longer for a DirecTV Tivo HD unit. Even if it was announced as being available tomorrow (which it will not be anytime this year), you would likely not be able to get one for months on end after that time due to demand/availability.

Also, as a new DirecTV customer, they will likely give you a great deal to switch back.


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## HiDefGator

My guess based on the latest comments is that the new DirecTivo will ship early 2011 at best. And I suspect like all new releases it will be buggy for several months. So unless you are willing to wait until late summer 2011 for the DirecTivo, I'd go ahead with the HR24 today.


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## kevinwill1

Go for an HR24. Coming from TiVo to the HR24, it took a tiny bit of getting used to, but there are many things this machine can do that are just as good or slightly better than TiVo. 

I didn't want to part with TiVo, but the lack of HD with what I had and the amazing deal I was able to get to switch to DirecTV led me down that path. I am not sorry in the least that I got a DirecTV box. My 4 year old daughter and I both had TiVo withdrawal for a few days, but that quickly passed and we're now completely used to the new remote, interface, etc.

Personal opinion - I wouldn't wait on the hopes that a new DirecTV/TiVo machine will be available early next year. Go for an HR24, and give yourself a little time to get used to it. I think you'll be glad you did.


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## balboa dave

jca said:


> We actually just gave in an upgraded our service to HD from three standard def DirecTivos to three HR 2X DVRs. We held onto those three DirecTivo DVRs for as long as possible hoping for a DirecTivo HD replacement to fall out of the sky -- but our old 35" CRT TV finally died *so we had to upgrade to an HD set, hence the dominoes fell and we upgraded the receivers.*
> 
> As someone who actually uses Tivo Suggestions (it actually saved me by getting a recording I forgot to put in just last night), I'm really going to miss that feature since I use it all the time.
> 
> Anyway, there is no reason you should wait any longer for a DirecTV Tivo HD unit. Even if it was announced as being available tomorrow (which it will not be anytime this year), you would likely not be able to get one for months on end after that time due to demand/availability.
> 
> Also, as a new DirecTV customer, they will likely give you a great deal to switch back.


Domino effect is right. The tipping point for me was two-fold. The rave reviews for the HR-24 and the introduction of Whole Home service. Goodbye DirecTiVo R10s. But it quickly escalated.

I too was planning for a new HDTV, and this was when D* announced their 3-D channels, and there was an irresistible (to me, at least) Samsung package deal for a 3-D TV, a 3-D Blu-ray player, two pair of glasses, and a 3-D movie.

So now my AVR was not up to the task, as it had no HDMI, much less 3-D support, so that needed replacing. The AVR I chose has 7.1 surround with Audyssey support, so I also needed new speakers.

Finally, I hope, my network connections were too slow and too few, so that caused an upgrade to wireless N and a new wireless bridge for all of the new AV components.

Oh wait, there is more. I'm still looking for decent furniture to house everything, but for now, my budget is shot.


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## Adam1115

I like my HR23, and I love directv... It's not a TiVo, but it's pretty good...


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## balboa dave

This seems a good a thread as any to post my personal and very subjective observations on the differences between the old DirecTiVo (I had two R10s) and the new DirecTV HR-24. In no particular order...

What the HR-24 does better than DirecTiVo:


If you get the Whole Home feature, you get multiple room playlist sharing.
90 minute buffers.
Plays and deletes folders.
One button switch between playing live and recorded, or two recorded.
Records an extra 59 seconds to shows if there's no recording conflicts. That means two shows recorded in a row on the same channel have a 59 second overlap.
Allows access to all show management from the show you're watching whether live or recorded.
Custom Series Link defaults (D* term for Season Pass).
Instant re-ordering of series links. In fact. just about every command has a very quick response, even if the recorder is in a different room.
Create a series link from the guide by pressing record twice. A third press deletes the link, so be careful.
Screen saver for paused shows.
When there's a scheduling or recording conflict, D* gives you the option to cancel either recorder, not just the higher priority show like TiVo.
Does not lose the place of a recorded show if you exit or while it's still playing live with less than 5 minutes left.
Info for Manual recordings includes listings for each scheduled show within the time frame.

What the HR-24 does that's close, but not as good, as DirecTiVo:


No TiVo menu, but you can view all programs on a single channel by going left in the guide to highlight the channel name, and then press Info.
Smart Search is similar to Wish Lists, is a little harder to use, and not as user friendly, but has some hidden talent with the Boolean operators.
D*'s Dual Live buffers are 90 minutes each, but it requires turning on this feature, which is trivial, but it uses the recorders, and stops when there's recordings, or after two hours of inactivity. The TiVo buffers are independent of the recorders and so are always on. Actually, this might be considered a wash, as some people like the D* version better.
Graphics are utilitarian at best, not that there's anything really wrong with that. Menus are extremely consistent and easy to use.

What the HR-24 does that's worse than DirecTiVo, or doesn't do at all:


Limited to 50 Series links, due to TiVo's patents.
No equivalent for Suggestions based on the thumbs metaphor, again due to TiVo's patents.
Scheduling management is not nearly as robust, but it is improving.
Fast forward and reverse are not as smooth.
Only one speed for slow, and it's a little hard to start.
There's no deleted show recovery.


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## stevel

The DirecTV DVRs also will add 30 minutes to recordings classified as "Live" (sports, award shows, etc.) if there are no conflicts.


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## Adam1115

Oh yea, the 50 limit on series links can be frustrating for sure...


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## HiDefGator

Adam1115 said:


> Oh yea, the 50 limit on series links can be frustrating for sure...


I don't believe the 50 series limit has anything to do with a Tivo patent. Do you have any proof of this or is it just a theory of yours? My guess is they did it from the start as a fixed size to make the code run faster. And since the number of people that have ever complained about it outside of this forum is nil, its never been changed.


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## Adam1115

HiDefGator said:


> I don't believe the 50 series limit has anything to do with a Tivo patent. Do you have any proof of this or is it just a theory of yours?.


I never said it had anything to do with a TiVo patent. I said having a limit of 50 series links was frustrating, that's it...


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## codespy

HiDefGator said:


> I don't believe the 50 series limit has anything to do with a Tivo patent. Do you have any proof of this or is it just a theory of yours? My guess is they did it from the start as a fixed size to make the code run faster. And since the number of people that have ever complained about it outside of this forum is nil, its never been changed.


Balboa said it....not Adam.......


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## HiDefGator

I responded to the wrong post. But I can't imagine how a patent could prevent them from offering more than 50 series links but 50 is OK.


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## Chris Gerhard

HiDefGator said:


> I responded to the wrong post. But I can't imagine how a patent could prevent them from offering more than 50 series links but 50 is OK.


It can't, a patent is not the cause of the difference in this case.

I have used DirecTV DVRs and I have used TiVo and for my needs, either one is terrific. It is possible the differences could be material to others, so just compare features and decide. As far as stability, both are rock solid in my opinion and both are great products.


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## jautor

And even if there are TiVo patents on any of these missing features, it doesn't matter - DirecTV has licensed the TiVo patent portfolio. If they want to use any them, they just have to do the work...


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## plazman30

I think that the DirecTV HD DVRs are nice, but there are definite features I miss from the Tivo.

I miss being able to hop between tuners. Each tuner buffers for 30 minutes, and I could have 2 shows running, hop between then and rewind. To me, that was a killer feature.

I can't remember if the DirectTV DVR will do conflict resolution when you schedule Series Recording the way the Tivo Season Pass Manager does.

I also miss the peanut remote.


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## stevel

You can switch between tuners now, and the buffer is 90 minutes. I find the conflict resolution better than TiVo's.


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## codespy

1-Called "Doubleplay". Use the down arrow.

2- Does conflict resolution just fine, similar to TiVo.

Remote takes some getting used to, but has additional great features that peanut doesn't. Took me about 3 months to master it without looking.

And, if you really like the HR23, you will LOVE the HR24. For me when they were in my fleet, the 23's were the slowest out of the 20,21,22,23 and 24's.


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## Adam1115

Conflict resolution is way better. It lets you cancel a recording from EITHER tuner instead of just the lower priority show.


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## scottjf8

Totally get the HR24. I've had almost all of the HRs and they were VERY buggy early on, but now they are extremely solid. MRV is great, and I don't care about the 50 SP limit since it's really 150 between my 3 receivers. 

I don't even know if I'd get the TiVo now, since I love the picture in guide, not waiting 10 minutes to sort SPs, etc...


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## sluciani

Add me to the list of one-time TiVO fanatics who's very happy with the HR2x's from DirecTV. I'd recommend *rcamille *replace both TiVo HD's with 2 HR24's with MRV. That would provide the ability to record up to four simultaneous shows, and a total of up to 100 SP's and 200 hours of HD storage, with all shows available at both viewing locations.


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## kenr

Isn't it true that if you switch to the DirecTV DVR, there's no guarantee they'll give you the HR24 and you might be provided an HR23 or something older?

What about expandability? Can an HR unit have its disk storage increased by the user?


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## 230

kenr said:


> Isn't it true that if you switch to the DirecTV DVR, there's no guarantee they'll give you the HR24 and you might be provided an HR23 or something older?
> 
> What about expandability? Can an HR unit have its disk storage increased by the user?


I believe right now you can replace with a drive up to 2TB. (Your original drive will not be seen.)

I added a 1.5TB drive in a MX-1 enclosure. It works great on my HR20-700. I've had it for about 8 months, and have yet to fill it over 30% capacity.


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## Matt L

And you can simply drop a new drive in to the box if you are willing to open it. All my HR2x boxes are owned so I can do what I want, but having a leased box doesn't stop many people. Just save the drive and drop it back in if you ever need to return the unit.


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## stevel

It is true that if you order through DirecTV, you can't be guaranteed of a specific model, though the CSR may say otherwise. You can order through a reseller and get a particular model, but may not get the same deal.


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## Adam1115

There isn't much reason to open up a leased box that isn't yours and start fiddling with it when you can just plug in an eSATA drive...


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## coachO

I use my Hr10-250 for OTA sports events because I like the slow motion. Speaking of slow, that is what the Hr10-250 is compared to the HR24-500 which I use for everything else. It took the HR24-500 to finally get me to say that D* makes a good DVR. Go for it.


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## MacQ2

Count me as one who hates the HR24. I've been a D*Tivo user from the beginning. But, when so many great HR24 comments came out I thought I'd finally upgrade my whole system to HD (including a 60" plasma) with the HR24. 

In short, I think the HR24 is trash and I rarely use it.

For me, here's the things that bugged me (in priority order):

1) Poor "trick play" makes speed-watching of sports impractical. The 1xFF is too jumpy and once you resume regular speed it jumps around. Activating slow-mo is so cumbersome as to be useless. 

2) The Picture-in-List (and picture-in-guide). At all times the HR24 shows a live TV channel in the upper right. Yes, there are tricks to try and stop it but there are plenty of times, like after watching a recording and going back to the list, that this live TV show pops up again. Even ignoring the "spoiler" problem if I'm also recording that channel, it's just plain annoying. I don't like watching things I didn't specifically choose.

3) Bugs. When I was using it I encountered some odd behavior about every other day. Examples:
3a) progress bar state incorrect - sometimes jumping way back even if current
3b) system slows to crawl, requires red button reboot
3c) picture freeze, usually switching channels can fix
3d) on multi-channel sports channels (like 4-in-1 US Open Golf), cannot consistently navigate between choices
3e) a couple shows recorded but when I played them back it got 5 minutes in and said "do you want to delete?". I couldn't watch the rest of the shows.
3f) the "auto-padding" of sequential recordings can be helpful but also confusing if you watch recordings out of sequence (which I do sometimes). There is no configuration for this.

4) Remote control design poor. Buttons are close together and feel similar. Awkward to operate by feel. I bought a Harmony which helped a lot but added $150 to my cost.

I'm not sure why so many ex-Tivo people like the HR24. For me, it's like taking several giant steps back. 

I've already bought my first Tivo HD XL which I use for Comcast. That's working great. I'd certainly look at any D*Tivo. But, otherwise I can't wait until my 2-year commitment is over. I've already cut my programming down to bare bones but still...


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## TyroneShoes

whitepelican said:


> This is just wrong. DirecTV is not about to just let you walk away from your 2-year commitment if you find that you absolutely hate their DVR. There is no "trial period" to decide if you like it. If you decide after two days that you made a mistake and don't want their DVR and you want to cancel DirecTV, you will then owe them somewhere in the neighborhood of $500 to cancel. Their biggest objective is not making the customer "happy". It is making money. If you think their commitment/contract times aren't anything to be worried about, that is absolutely untrue. They will hold you to the commitment, and it could end up costing you a lot of money to get out of it. And once you sign up for that 2-year commitment, you've lost any and all bargaining power that you may have had with them.


As I said earlier, there is a lot of disinformation out there. And as you can see, you don't have to travel far from this forum to be graced with it.

But I don't think we are that much in disagreement. Of course, any company's objective is to make money. You're not exactly dealin' with a chimp here, and I don't need to be lectured on the obvious. But no company makes money by pissing off customers or providing them with horror stories to repeat to everyone else. They are a long-standing successful company and know that they must act reasonably to a reasonable customer issue or they will lose in the end. Thats what successful companies do. Those that don't are already out of business. DTV has no one over a barrel; there are plenty of other places to get your programming, and they realize they are in competition, and must give to get. No one has a gun to anyone's head.

And obviously, there is a reason for a commitment in many cases. As a new customer you have no track record with them; you are an unknown quantity. If they do a free install (which costs them $100 and up just in overhead), and on top of that give you a free dish, free DVR, a couple of free receivers, free pay channels for 3 months, etc., well, that kinda F'-ing deserves a commitment, don't you think? Consider what they have committed up front to you. If you look at the real cost of a DVR, which can be 3 or 4 times the subsidized "list" price of $199, they have invested a great deal in a new customer and will not see a ROI for some time. The margins on reselling programming are pretty thin. And if you are a reasonable subscriber with a track record of being just that, new equipment and the like rarely resets the commitment clock, unless you simply act a fool and talk crazy to the CSR (good luck with that).

The subscription services business model is analagous to the repeat business model. You can't just cream a customer one time and make a profit. You also can't lock someone into a deal that is one-sided and expect that to work as a business model. There is no low-hanging fruit here. A company that makes its money by getting monthly fees from customers over a long period of time can not afford to piss people off, and they will work with you if you have an issue. That is pretty much guaranteed.

But there is a limit. If you are not an established customer you are not in a position to make demands, and unreasonable ones won't be honored to any customer. If you expect the unreasonable they will hold your feet to the fire rather than let you just bone them. And they should. Someone has to pay for that free install and all of that bookkeeping and overhead, and I don't want it to be the rest of us. If you change your mind 2 weeks in, well there will be no sympathy from me or anyone else that it might cost you a few bucks to get out.

One of the reasons for the threat of committment is simply so you will understand that you need to make that committment, which keeps the flighty from risking DTV's potential investment in them. There has to be a certain leap of faith on the new customer's part; that they will understand what they are getting before they get it and will honestly try to accept that service as it stands.

And that is the way it should be; while I don't want to see them take unfair advantage of any customers (because they could try that sort of monkey business with me) I also don't want to see other customers taking unfair advantage of any company I have a symbiotic relationship with, because that threatens that relationship and violates fair play to me and every other customer. It really could not be any more simple than that.

The "committment" is only something to be "worried about" if you are being unreasonable. There is also the worst-case scenario (and a rare one) that you as a new customer may be expecting something exceptionally different from what you are getting. I think that is rarely the fault of DTV, as they pretty much deliver what people expect; what they say they are going to deliver to you. They are up front about what they are selling you. And there are 17 million folks who vote with their wallets in agreement with me every month.

The other rare but possible scenario is that you just have incredibly bad luck with the install, the equipment, etc., right off the bat. But this is not what happens to 99.999% of subscribers, meaning that DTV has the power to eventually make it right for you, and they will just as soon as you stop screaming at them. This is also characteristically accompanied by years of pay channels for free, lots of free PPVs, free service for a number of months, or whatever it takes to make you happy. If they just can't make you happy, there is either something dreadfully wrong with you or you did not honor the responsibility you have of understanding what you are getting into in the first place. Translation: you are getting exactly what you deserve.


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## TyroneShoes

kenr said:


> Isn't it true that if you switch to the DirecTV DVR, there's no guarantee they'll give you the HR24 and you might be provided an HR23 or something older?
> 
> What about expandability? Can an HR unit have its disk storage increased by the user?


Of course that's true. They can't just stack perfectly good older units up in a warehouse because every customer wants the new one. But other than a bump in GUI speed and storage there is nothing significantly different between the HR24 and any of the other models; they have identical PQ and comparable features, so it really isn't an issue. If you just _have to have_ a HR24, there are plenty of places that will sell you one direct for about $165.

There is also another way to guarantee the HR24, which is to subscribe to the "whole house DVR" service. It costs a bit more, but you can make the HR24 your preference and have them insure that you will get it rather than earlier models. This service interconnects all boxes for viewing of any recording at any location over a LAN, so it makes sense for a family.

Expandability is easy. Either replace the HDD internally, or connect an eSATA externally. A 2 TB drive can hold close to 500 hours of MPEG4 HD (or up to nearly 2000 hours of SD).


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## stinkbomb1020

TyroneShoes said:


> If you just _have to have_ a HR24, there are plenty of places that will sell you one direct for about $165.


I would be interested in one for that price! Where are these "plenty of places"? Searched fleabay but only found one for over $400.
Thanks


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## sjberra

stinkbomb1020 said:


> I would be interested in one for that price! Where are these "plenty of places"? Searched fleabay but only found one for over $400.
> Thanks


sell is not quite accurate - they are quoting a reduced lease acquistition cost, if you want to own you are looking at the 400+ and even then there is no promise that what you pay 400 for is truely a "owned" unit unless you do the due diligence and verify the rid of the unit. Only unit that is easy to verify is the HR21-Pro - those are owned units when you pay the cost of them


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## AVPhan

Adam1115 said:


> Oh yea, the 50 limit on series links can be frustrating for sure...


Frustrating is a major understatement. Someone mentioned this was due to Patent. Please help elaborate for more understanding.

Thanks.


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## stevel

AVPhan said:


> Frustrating is a major understatement. Someone mentioned this was due to Patent. Please help elaborate for more understanding.


That mention was a mistake.


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## SullyND

TyroneShoes said:


> Expandability is easy. Either replace the HDD internally, or connect an eSATA externally. A 2 TB drive can hold close to 500 hours of MPEG4 HD (or up to nearly 2000 hours of SD).


Is it still the case that the HRs see only one drive at a time? (i.e. Hook up a new 2TB external drive and you cannot watch the recordings from the internal drive)


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## codespy

Yes this is still the case. One or the other that's it.


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## Adam1115

scottjf8 said:


> Totally get the HR24. I've had almost all of the HRs and they were VERY buggy early on, but now they are extremely solid. MRV is great, and I don't care about the 50 SP limit since it's really 150 between my 3 receivers.
> 
> I don't even know if I'd get the TiVo now, since I love the picture in guide, not waiting 10 minutes to sort SPs, etc...


I just got the MRV... it's SO awesome.... Good advise!


----------



## scottjf8

w00t, we love it too, Adam!


----------



## Runch Machine

Just ask yourself if you spend more time playing or watching the user interface or spend more time watching program content. I have both a Tivo Series 3 connected to a TV antenna and an HR20 on DIRECTV. I use and like them both. DIRECTV wins out because of all the channels and HD compared to just 10 local channels on my HD Tivo. 

They both work great and you will be happy with DIRECTV if you take the time to get used to the HR2x User interface. 

DIRECTV provides more channels than cable, better picture quality than cable and costs less than cable. When DIRECTV dropped the Tivo software I wasn't happy, but never considered going back to cable. Now that the HR2x series of DVRs is as good or better than Tivo, I'm glad I stuck with DIRECTV.


----------



## wgoose26

MacQ2 said:


> Count me as one who hates the HR24. I've been a D*Tivo user from the beginning. But, when so many great HR24 comments came out I thought I'd finally upgrade my whole system to HD (including a 60" plasma) with the HR24.
> 
> In short, I think the HR24 is trash and I rarely use it.


I have to say: Amen, brother! I've had an HR22 (so i cant speak of any improvement the HR24 may be) for a year after 7+ years of DirecTivo. The pain!



MacQ2 said:


> For me, here's the things that bugged me (in priority order):
> 1) Poor "trick play" makes speed-watching of sports impractical. The 1xFF is too jumpy and once you resume regular speed it jumps around. Activating slow-mo is so cumbersome as to be useless.


This is my single biggest issue. I watch a lot of sports, but I don't have 3 hours to watch a ballgame or 2 hours for a tennis match. With Tivo, you could easily increase speed and still see what you were watching. The HR22 is crap at this. The jump-backs make it impossible to cut out 15-20 second intervals, and 2-3 minute jumps are a pain in the keyster as well. The boxes seem to be designed to make viewability andnavigation as difficult as possible. Criminal, really.



MacQ2 said:


> 2) The Picture-in-List (and picture-in-guide). At all times the HR24 shows a live TV channel in the upper right. Yes, there are tricks to try and stop it but there are plenty of times, like after watching a recording and going back to the list, that this live TV show pops up again. Even ignoring the "spoiler" problem if I'm also recording that channel, it's just plain annoying. I don't like watching things I didn't specifically choose.
> 
> 3) Bugs. When I was using it I encountered some odd behavior about every other day. Examples:
> 3a) progress bar state incorrect - sometimes jumping way back even if current
> 3b) system slows to crawl, requires red button reboot
> 3c) picture freeze, usually switching channels can fix
> 3d) on multi-channel sports channels (like 4-in-1 US Open Golf), cannot consistently navigate between choices
> 3e) a couple shows recorded but when I played them back it got 5 minutes in and said "do you want to delete?". I couldn't watch the rest of the shows.
> 3f) the "auto-padding" of sequential recordings can be helpful but also confusing if you watch recordings out of sequence (which I do sometimes). There is no configuration for this.
> 
> 4) Remote control design poor. Buttons are close together and feel similar. Awkward to operate by feel. I bought a Harmony which helped a lot but added $150 to my cost.


All these points i've experienced as well, but i must give special mention to how S------L-----O-----W the HR22 is. It takes over a second for the average button response time. And freezes of 5-10 seconds are not uncommon. Just basic, faulty, buggy, software design i'm afraid.

I might try the HR24 to see if any of these issues have improved, but i'm not hopeful.

~glenn


----------



## NYHeel

As someone who has used both boxes I figured I'd mention 2 features the Tivo has that the Directv box does not. One is tivo to go. This is big as it allows me to watch shows on my ipod (I don't need to pay $30 a month for a data plan) during my commute. The other is the ability to transfer videos to the Tivo to watch on TV. This is big for the occasional missed show that requires a torrent download. I know you can do something like that with playon but that just seemed like a real pain.

The other issue is price. I switched from Directv to Fios with Tivo and I save about $30 a month ongoing and much more the first year.

Another feature I really like that I think is underrated is the Tivo search beta on the TivoHD (which I believe is the standard search on the Premiere). It has a ton of information on there like episode guides that tell you when that episode will be on again (if in the next 2 weeks) and other sources of the show like netflix and amazon. It really helps save me the time of going over to the computer and checking epguides.com for stuff. It's really slow on the TivoHD but I still like it because of all the info on there.

Don't get me wrong the Directv box is very good and has some features that the Tivo doesn't. Some of these have been mentioned like the vastly superior conflict resolution and season pass default settings. But overall I like the Tivo box better and I like the combined price with the Fios triple play better than the Directv pricing. Plus Fios gives you some nice features like access to espn3.com and the NFL red zone channel for $50 a season instead of having to buy the whole Sunday ticket when all you really want is the red zone channel.


----------



## codespy

wgoose26 said:


> I have to say: Amen, brother! I've had an HR22 (so i cant speak of any improvement the HR24 may be) for a year after 7+ years of DirecTivo. The pain!


HR22's are about the worst.

The speed of a HR24 is just a different world compared to the 22. I think the 24 compares to the 6.4a version for DirecTiVo's, perhaps a slightly bit faster and less choppy.


----------



## dwells

MacQ2 said:


> 2) The Picture-in-List (and picture-in-guide). At all times the HR24 shows a live TV channel in the upper right. Yes, there are tricks to try and stop it but there are plenty of times, like after watching a recording and going back to the list, that this live TV show pops up again. Even ignoring the "spoiler" problem if I'm also recording that channel, it's just plain annoying. I don't like watching things I didn't specifically choose.


This is something I also HATE- I wish they would allow you to turn this off completely. What are the tricks for stopping it???


----------



## bengalfreak

kenr said:


> Isn't it true that if you switch to the DirecTV DVR, there's no guarantee they'll give you the HR24 and you might be provided an HR23 or something older?
> 
> What about expandability? Can an HR unit have its disk storage increased by the user?


Yep, very true. If you want an HR-24 for certain, you need to buy one from a third party vendor, not DirecTV.


----------



## balboa dave

dwells said:


> This is something I also HATE- I wish they would allow you to turn this off completely. What are the tricks for stopping it???


It's really complicated. First, you have to press Pause. Then you, oh wait, that's it.


----------



## whitepelican

balboa dave said:


> It's really complicated. First, you have to press Pause. Then you, oh wait, that's it.


That helps a tiny bit, but it's not exactly foolproof. It doesn't exactly help if you're recording sports and trying to avoid seeing the score. Not to mention all the other spoilers you can see on a paused screen on just about any program.


----------



## stevel

If you're recording a show, you can switch channels before going to the menus so you won't see the recording.


----------



## balboa dave

You can also switch channels *while* you're in the menu.


----------



## DreadPirateRob

So I'm finally taking the HD plunge in the next month or so (well, I've had an LCD in the den for awhile now, but our main TV was a CRT and we didn't have HD programming). I know I can get a free dish, free install, and 2 free DVRs from DTV (because they offered it to me when I called to renegotiate my Sunday Ticket price last month and they said they would keep the offer in my file), and the HR24 looks pretty good to someone coming from an R10 - particularly MRV. 

But anyway I can guarantee that I get the H24, or is luck of the draw? Also, sounds like the HR22 is slow, but what about the HR23?


----------



## litzdog911

DreadPirateRob said:


> So I'm finally taking the HD plunge in the next month or so (well, I've had an LCD in the den for awhile now, but our main TV was a CRT and we didn't have HD programming). I know I can get a free dish, free install, and 2 free DVRs from DTV (because they offered it to me when I called to renegotiate my Sunday Ticket price last month and they said they would keep the offer in my file), and the HR24 looks pretty good to someone coming from an R10 - particularly MRV.
> 
> But anyway I can guarantee that I get the H24, or is luck of the draw? Also, sounds like the HR22 is slow, but what about the HR23?


Luck of the draw. Unless you get the HR24 directly from a dealer, like http://www.solidsignal.com.


----------



## balboa dave

DreadPirateRob said:


> So I'm finally taking the HD plunge in the next month or so (well, I've had an LCD in the den for awhile now, but our main TV was a CRT and we didn't have HD programming). I know I can get a free dish, free install, and 2 free DVRs from DTV (because they offered it to me when I called to renegotiate my Sunday Ticket price last month and they said they would keep the offer in my file), and the HR24 looks pretty good to someone coming from an R10 - particularly MRV.
> 
> But anyway I can guarantee that I get the H24, or is luck of the draw? Also, sounds like the HR22 is slow, but what about the HR23?


I made virtually the same jump into HD from a pair of R10s. I also included Whole Home Service and the internet option, now called Cinema Plus. It's essential for Video on Demand, and there's lots of free content.

I discussed getting HR-24s with my customer service rep, and she told me she would put it on the service order ticket. I also asked my rep for the name and number of the installation company and got it. I never used it, but you might want to. I reviewed the entire order with the installer before he started, making sure he had HR-24s. He did, and the request was on the ticket like the rep said it would be. I was willing to cancel the order on the spot if he didn't. YMMV.


----------



## DreadPirateRob

balboa dave said:


> I made virtually the same jump into HD from a pair of R10s. I also included Whole Home Service and the internet option, now called Cinema Plus. It's essential for Video on Demand, and there's lots of free content.
> 
> I discussed getting HR-24s with my customer service rep, and she told me she would put it on the service order ticket. I also asked my rep for the name and number of the installation company and got it. I never used it, but you might want to. I reviewed the entire order with the installer before he started, making sure he had HR-24s. He did, and the request was on the ticket like the rep said it would be. I was willing to cancel the order on the spot if he didn't. YMMV.


Thanks for the info.

So the Cinema Plus is essentially free, right? Do you need to have a wired ethernet port local, or will wireless work? I ask because my router is in a whole separate room.

Also, does the Whole House DVR work with just 1 DVR, or you can use 2? I ask because we often have 4-way conflicts o), and having 4 tuners is essential. I'd like to be able to watch either DVR from either room if possible, but I can't tell if that's doable based on the DirecTV website. And that is $3/month?


----------



## balboa dave

DreadPirateRob said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> So the Cinema Plus is essentially free, right?


It is free, and has both free and PPV content.


> Do you need to have a wired ethernet port local, or will wireless work? I ask because my router is in a whole separate room.


 I strongly recommend wired. My router is also in a separate room, and I had the installer run a cable to that room just for the internet.


> Also, does the Whole House DVR work with just 1 DVR, or you can use 2? I ask because we often have 4-way conflicts o), and having 4 tuners is essential. I'd like to be able to watch either DVR from either room if possible, but I can't tell if that's doable based on the DirecTV website. And that is $3/month?


Yes, $3 a month. I have no problem with 4 way conflicts with my two HR24s. You can view and play the recorded shows from any unit in the house on any other unit. This is a very fast stream, and you'll be hard pressed to tell if you're watching a show recorded on the local HR2x or the remote one. There is a small drawback in that you can't see the other unit's To Do lists, and you must set up the recordings for each HR2x separately. A spreadsheet helps, but basically, divide shows by networks. Even with my TiVos, I used a spreadsheet. The good news is you can also set up recordings for any of your HR2x on-line with DirecTV or with one of their phone apps.

Go to DBStalk.com. That's where I learned everything there is to be known about DirecTV, and they have a few lively show discussion threads too, but not as many as there are here.


----------



## DreadPirateRob

Thanks for the info, dave. I appreciate it.  Love the ability to stream from two different DVRs.

And yes, spreadsheets are crucial. I've had one for several years (I used to post them here, but didn't do so this year) to map out our recordings.


----------



## plazman30

I thought I would chime in as a very recent former DirecTV customer.

I had a DirecTV R10, the last SD Tivo model. I loved the thing. I bought an HDTV and kept the R10 because I heard that the new DTV DVR was awful and there was a guy running orange conduit down my block for FIOS.

When I found out FIOS wasn't coming any time soon, and DirecTV announced that a Tivo based HD DVR would be coming out in the second half of 2009, I figured I would switch and simply upgrade to the Tivo box when it comes out.

I was given the HR-23. The HR-23 was an OK receiver. I really really missed 30 second skip. A software update to the HR-23 introduced a 30 second skip hack.

I was waiting patiently for the Tivo based unit and it kept getting delayed and delayed, and I was trapped in a 2 year contract. The DVR kept getting software updates, and little tweaks here and there made the interface nicer and easier to use.

My two years was up at the end of September. Even with the strides DirecTV made with their UI, it just wasn't as polished as the Tivo interface to me. In October, when DirecTV announced that the Tivo based unit was delayed until Q1 2011, I decided I was done waiting any longer. I bought a Tivo Premiere, called the FIOS people up, and dumped DirecTV and told them the only reason I switching was lack of Tivo.

Now that I have a Premiere and have discovered pyTivo and iTivo, the Tivo box has replaced both the DirecTV DVR AND the Media Center PC under my TV right now. I can also now do Amazon VOD, Blockbuster. I use the Pandora streaming all the time, and I am probably going to get Hulu Plus for Tivo when it comes out.

In order of pre


----------



## rumpleteazer

plazman30 said:


> ...Now that I have a Premiere and have discovered pyTivo and iTivo, the Tivo box has replaced both the DirecTV DVR AND the Media Center PC under my TV right now. I can also now do Amazon VOD, Blockbuster. I use the Pandora streaming all the time, and I am probably going to get Hulu Plus for Tivo when it comes out.
> 
> In order of pre


Uh oh. The DirecTV people took out Plazman.


----------



## plazman30

rumpleteazer said:


> Uh oh. The DirecTV people took out Plazman.


Haha!

What I was going to say was, from my personal use of DVRs, my order of preference is:

1. Tivo
2. DirecTV DVR
3. Dish Network DVR
4. FIOS DVR
5. Comcast DVR


----------



## plazman30

rumpleteazer said:


> Uh oh. The DirecTV people took out Plazman.


Haha!

What I was going to say was, from my personal use of DVRs, my order of preference is:

1. Tivo
2. DirecTV DVRa
3. Dish Network DVR
4. FIOS DVR
5. Comcast DVR


----------



## smak

Does the HR24 have anything like the Tivo Wishlist?

-smak-


----------



## balboa dave

smak said:


> Does the HR24 have anything like the Tivo Wishlist?
> 
> -smak-


It has what they call Keyword Searches. It's maybe not as elegant as WishLists, and is a little harder to use, but it essentially works the same, and even has a couple of options that TiVo doesn't.


----------



## joed32

smak said:


> Does the HR24 have anything like the Tivo Wishlist?
> 
> -smak-


I wish!


----------



## stevel

Well, it does, sort of. It will remember past keyword searches and show you all matching programs. You can also set up keyword searches to autorecord matching items. The keyword search, with its boolean operators such as AAND and CCHAN, is much more powerful than TiVo's.


----------



## scottjf8

joed32 said:


> I wish!


What are you wishing for?

I have a autorecord keyword search for "Poker" on mine and it records any show with the title or description with "poker" in it.

Works great.


----------



## joed32

I don't speak Boolean and neither does the general public. I loved the Wish List feature!


----------



## stevel

It's just called something else - anything a TiVo wishlist can do, a DirecTV keyword search can do. The reverse is not true.


----------



## joed32

Not when the average person has no idea how to use it. Wish list was so easy a caveman could set it up. The current method requires people to go take a class in Boolean logic. I use 5 HR DVRs and 1 Hr receiver and I like them. MRV is great. The only 2 Tivo features I would want are "Wish List" and "Undelete". If you are saying that if people are too stupid to use a feature then they don't deserve to have that feature then you are being elitist.


----------



## Rainy Dave

I would love to see an Undelete (Recently Deleted folder) option added. And allow for Sorting the playlists alphabetically while listing the contents of the folder chronologically.

Once I had those my move to the Dark Side (HRxx) would be complete!


----------



## Adam1115

Oh yea.. undelete. That IS a nice feature on TiVo, I really do wish the HR had that....


----------



## samo

joed32 said:


> Not when the average person has no idea how to use it. Wish list was so easy a caveman could set it up. The current method requires people to go tale a class in Boolean logic. I use 5 HR DVRs and 1 Hr receiver and I like them. MRV is great. The only 2 Tivo features I would want are "Wish List" and "Undelete". If you are saying that if people are too stupid to use a feature then they don't deserve to have that feature then you are being elitist.


I agree on undelete, would be nice to have. Could you make an example of a specific TiVo wishlist entry you have a hard time to setup with a "smart search" without using boolean?


----------



## joed32

samo said:


> I agree on undelete, would be nice to have. Could you make an example of a specific TiVo wishlist entry you have a hard time to setup with a "smart search" without using boolean?


Don't have any Tivos anymore. I use "Smart Search" and sometimes the search and auto record for specific titles but anything more difficult than that where you have to use AAll or AAny or IIff I don't even try to use. Wish List was in English and like I said anyone could use it.


----------



## Matt L

No one says you have to use the Boolean operators, they just add a very powerful option _IF_ you want to use them. Smart search work just fine without them and will auto record whatever matches you search terms.


----------



## joed32

No I don't have to use it and I bet that the vast majority of subs don't even know it exists. I was just stating my preference, not flaming Directv or their DVRs, I'm happy with both.


----------



## NorthOlyPen

We have two Series II DIRECTV/TiVo's. We are very pleased with them. Being uninformed at the time, I naively called D* when my first TiVo bit the dust. They breezily offered an R15 free of charge as a replacement. Well, if you're here, you know the rest of that story. So now I have 2 Series II TiVo's in reserve.

As the equipment ages it is starting to fail. We've replaced 2 TiVo's and one TV in the last 3 years. The replacement TV is HD capable but the older one is a 27" CRT Sony and we're looking at replacing it soon. 

So what do we need to enter the D*-HD-DVR universe? It may turn out that we wait for the D*-TiVo-HD-DVR. But if we run out of options before the D*-TiVo-HD-DVR appears, what then?

Don't care about sound, we have about 12-15 recurring recordings and seldom bump up against the 80 hour capacity limit. Really don't care about HD except for the occasional nature program. But HD has the future potential of being able to continue using a TiVo-based DVR.

Oh, yeah - we have a round 18" antenna with dual LNB and I understand that the antenna would need to be replaced. It connects via a single dual coax. We have an identical dual coax lying parallel to the D* coax from a previous Hughesnet broadband installation. I have the impression that D* HD requires two, dual coax cables. That could be a hassle if we cannot use the existing coax cables since our antenna is more than 100' from the house. 

On edit: Ooops... there may be a snag in all of this. We have an RV with a "King Dome". In our current hardware's view, it's basically a single LNB, 18" round dish antenna. We take the RCA DVR40 out to the RV when we travel and it works flawlessly within the limitations of a single-LNB configuration. It gets all of our Total Choice Plus programming and our local channels if we are still within the spot-beam's footprint. I know the new HR2X DVR's will not process HD signals using the single-LNB antenna. But will it mimic the old Series II DVR40 when dealing with standard definition broadcasts?


Thanks,


----------



## KSbugeater

NorthOlyPen said:


> I have the impression that D* HD requires two, dual coax cables. That could be a hassle if we cannot use the existing coax cables since our antenna is more than 100' from the house.


DirecTV now offers Single-Wire Multiswitch dishes (SWiMLine) that would work with HR2x DVRs in your case.


----------



## HiDefGator

If you upgrade to HD, Directv will upgrade the dish for you. The new Dish can do up to 8 tuners on a single wire.


----------



## NorthOlyPen

KSbugeater said:


> DirecTV now offers Single-Wire Multiswitch dishes (SWiMLine) that would work with HR2x DVRs in your case.


Thanks, KSbugeater & HiDefGator. Will one of the existing RG6 coaxes work in this application?

Thanks again,


----------



## stevel

If the RG6 is in good condition, yes.


----------



## KOP22

Was goign to try Direct, but I don't like how they lock you in for so long.


----------



## NorthOlyPen

KOP22 said:


> Was goign to try Direct, but I don't like how they lock you in for so long.


I hear you, KOP22, but I've had the DIRECTV service for 15 years and have never seen anything better to tempt me away. While problems have come up (my Series II boxes are randomly rebooting at the moment) they have never been serious enough to cause me to look elsewhere.


----------



## NorthOlyPen

stevel said:


> If the RG6 is in good condition, yes.


Thanks, Steve. That's good news.


----------



## HiDefGator

NorthOlyPen said:


> Thanks, Steve. That's good news.


If it isn't they will run new RG6 for you.


----------



## NorthOlyPen

HiDefGator said:


> If it isn't they will run new RG6 for you.


HiDefGator,

Maybe not. My antenna is over 100' from the house. They'd have to dig a trench and they were not willing to do that for the initial installation. At least they would not do it without charging extra. I'm lucky to have an existing RG6 from the former HughesNet broadband service that is already in the ground and has ample slack on both ends so it can go from LNB to the furthest TV in one piece.

Speaking of which, while looking on the DIRECTV website it was not obvious to me what cable and connections and parts are required. There are posts here that say that D* furnishes a new SwimLine antenna and box. However, the box model is pot luck with respect to HR23 vs HR24. Also, there have been references to splitters and power inserters with which I have no familiarity.

I'll keep reading here and hope that I will be able to place and informed order when the time comes.

Thanks to all who have responded.


----------



## MacQ2

The tricks for avoiding the spoiler of the picture-in-list (PIL) and picture-in-guide (PIG) on the D* models is this:

Before turning on your TV, on the D* remote press List, Select, Pause. This selects the first item in your list of previously recorded items and pauses it at the beginning. 

Simply pressing Pause doesn't work well for various reasons. The main one is that when turning on the TV if you simply Pause but you have two things recording you will see one of these two shows mid-stream. This is not good for sports or other drama/mystery type shows where you might see something important before you want. 

Note that the work-around only works at startup. While watching a recorded show, once its done the D* unit takes you back to the List which shows a live channel in the upper right. Yes, you can quickly pause but see my previous paragraph for why this is inadequate. It's also just a nuisance to just have some random TV show now blasting at me after having just watched something of my own choosing.


----------



## HiDefGator

NorthOlyPen said:


> HiDefGator,
> 
> Maybe not. My antenna is over 100' from the house. They'd have to dig a trench and they were not willing to do that for the initial installation. At least they would not do it without charging extra. I'm lucky to have an existing RG6 from the former HughesNet broadband service that is already in the ground and has ample slack on both ends so it can go from LNB to the furthest TV in one piece.
> 
> Speaking of which, while looking on the DIRECTV website it was not obvious to me what cable and connections and parts are required. There are posts here that say that D* furnishes a new SwimLine antenna and box. However, the box model is pot luck with respect to HR23 vs HR24. Also, there have been references to splitters and power inserters with which I have no familiarity.
> 
> I'll keep reading here and hope that I will be able to place and informed order when the time comes.
> 
> Thanks to all who have responded.


Yeah for an installation like that you would have to do the digging yourself (which I assume you did the first time) or pay for it. Any chance its in conduit? If so then you could maybe pull the new piece through using the old one. If you really want an HR24 you can buy it yourself from solidsignal.


----------



## stevel

The "SWMline" (this is not an official term) dish has two outputs for RG6 cable. Usually only one of them is used. A power inserter is provided which typically goes between one of your DirecTV boxes and the dish - it provides power to the SWM module.

Splitters can be used to connect to additional receivers - each receiver needs only one feed even for dual tuners. There is a maximum number of receivers allowed (I don't recall the number for the built-in dish version.) The splitters need to be wideband with DC passthrough.


----------



## yoyo_58

how long do y'all think it'll be before D* runs out of HR 23's and ships only the 24's?


----------



## litzdog911

yoyo_58 said:


> how long do y'all think it'll be before D* runs out of HR 23's and ships only the 24's?


No clue. Since they're constantly refurbishing older DVRs (HR20, HR21, HR22, etc), they might never run out of them.


----------



## Adam1115

yoyo_58 said:


> how long do y'all think it'll be before D* runs out of HR 23's and ships only the 24's?


I think for the most part, people who order a new receiver (either new customer or existing customer paying $199 to add a receiver) is pretty likely to get an HR24.

For customers with an HR20, 21, or 23 that breaks? I think DirecTV would be stupid to ever replace those with an HR24. Otherwise a LOT of receivers would mysteriously break...


----------



## ewansgirl

After reading this thread, I opted to upgrade my existing HR20's for HR24's rather than waiting for DirecTivo (cause that could be a looong wait resulting in disappointment) or going to Tivo Premiere/Comcast. Being a long time DTV customer got me the $49 Whole Home DVR installation waived and $10 a month off my service for 12 months.



Adam1115 said:


> I think for the most part, people who order a new receiver (either new customer or existing customer paying $199 to add a receiver) is pretty likely to get an HR24.


One of the reviews I read for the HR24 on solidsignal dot com (DTV rep also suggested this site) was for a NEW customer that received an HR20! So being a new customer does NOT necessarily mean you will get an HR24. When DTV reps order equipment, the option is HD DVR, SD DVR, etc. They CANNOT order by model number. Orders are filled by whatever is in the warehouse. The only thing being a new customer gets you is NIB (New In Box) equipment. And I'm not even positive about that!



Adam1115 said:


> For customers with an HR20, 21, or 23 that breaks? I think DirecTV would be stupid to ever replace those with an HR24. Otherwise a LOT of receivers would mysteriously break...


I have had 3 HR20s break on me, and DTV keeps replacing them with the same freaking models. They replace like with like (HD DVR for HD DVR) with whatever is in the warehouse...which we all know is thousands of crappy HR20s!


----------



## NorthOlyPen

ewansgirl said:


> One of the reviews I read for the HR24 on solidsignal dot com (DTV rep also suggested this site) was for a NEW customer that received an HR20! So being a new customer does NOT necessarily mean you will get an HR24. When DTV reps order equipment, the option is HD DVR, SD DVR, etc. They CANNOT order by model number. Orders are filled by whatever is in the warehouse. The only thing being a new customer gets you is NIB (New In Box) equipment. And I'm not even positive about that!


Not taking issue with anything you said but I just swapped one of my Series II D* TiVo's for an HD DVR on one of my TV's. (I still cling to one D* TiVo) The installer said that all he is getting are HR24's for HD DVR installs.

His impression is that older models are being recirculated in cases where a failing unit is being replaced or customer-installs. In other words, when D* sends out an HD DVR directly to a subscriber.

As you say though, nothing is 100% guaranteed.

I got an HR24-200 since that's all he had in the truck. I don't know what difference it might make but we're pretty far out in the boonies on Washington's Olympic Peninsula.

The HD is nice but I still miss my TiVo D* box.

FWIW


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## HiDefGator

I've had 3 HR20's for a couple of years now. Just added a brand new 24 to the mix. It's faster but not so much faster that I would ever consider upgrading the HR20's.


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## jeffbradley

Any Guess on When the New Direct TV TIVO Box Will Be Issued


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## stevel

Any guess is likely to be wrong. It's already long past the initial promised availability, but at least indications are that it is in field trials now. If it is available before April 2011 I will be surprised.


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## codespy

Remember how excited we were when waiting for this one?..........

http://www.directv.com/see/landing/dvr_upgrade.html


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## litzdog911

March 19, 2011. But who really knows anything


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## mrmcmanus

I got the HR-24 and one other HD receiver about a month ago. Had been dragging my feet waiting for Tivo HD and decided it was stupid to sit here with 2 gorgeous Samsung HD tvs and no HD recorder. I absolutely love the HR-24 and it has thus far done everything perfectly. Was totally thrilled to find that you could buffer two shows for 90 minutes which is great for watching 2 football or basketball games as some of you know. I did refuse to let him take my old Tivo which had a hard drive replacement thru Weaknees because I can still watch my unwatched content from it. (Plug into tv using coax connection, when it gets to Searching for satellite, press the Tivo button and there are your listings.) He checked with Directv and they didn't care if he left it. Anyway, I love the HR-24 and couldn't be happier.


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## HiDefGator

I feel the same way. Been perfectly happy with HR's. NOt sure what Tivo has that I need or miss at this point other than a different interface.


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## yy4u

Not upgrading my Dtivo DTV is wrong they hosed TIVO & I will not support there HR box.
#1 I will not on principal 
# 2 I am a cheap & I can not see giving $200 for the box plus $10 a month when Cable will set me up for free if I want to upgrade.
#3 SD looks fine on my Sony HD it has a great up convert & enough tweaks to make the picture just fine. 
Unless my Tivo dies I will not move if it does then I will call Comcast & switch for a year or 2 then come back & get all the new customer discounts. Might even just go to the Antenna I get 40chan & lot of HD for free there.


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## scottjf8

yy4u said:


> #3 SD looks fine on my Sony HD it has a great up convert & enough tweaks to make the picture just fine. .


I don't buy this bit. But good luck


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## CuriousMark

scottjf8 said:


> I don't buy this bit. But good luck


A TV with a good upscaling capability at >2x viewing distance will indeed look acceptable. Cheap TVs will not. This is not to say that SD will look as good as HD, it won't. It is to say that SD will look good enough to watch. My setup is the same and I agree with him. I use my SD TiVo as much as the HD from DTV. It would be nicer if it were all HD, but I fear I will have to switch to TWC to get that.


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## yy4u

scottjf8 said:


> I don't buy this bit. But good luck


No luck needed one mans ceiling is another mans floor. I am just not that picky I have a friend that has an LED TV with HD & I don't come home & look at mine & think wow how much better it would be Yes its better but not $200 plus $10 a month When Tivo comes I will consider it. 
I did find this & it might help with the speed questions


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## HiDefGator

yy4u said:


> ...Yes its better but not $200 plus $10 a month.


They will give you free HD for 2 years when you activate the DVR. That's a $240 value.

Some of us thought HD was SO much better we paid $1000 for the HR10 when it came out just to watch a half dozen HD channels. In comparison $200 for the HR24 today is a joke.


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## stevel

You can also get free HD for two years (probably renewable) by signing up for auto-pay.


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## HiDefGator

stevel said:


> You can also get free HD for two years (probably renewable) by signing up for auto-pay.


My guess is that 2 years from now there will not be a non-HD option.


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## yy4u

Ok after viewing this I now understand what the SWM does I am warming up to the upgrading to HD as I will eliminate a lot of wires.


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## HiDefGator

yy4u said:


> Ok after viewing this I now understand what the SWM does I am warming up to the upgrading to HD as I will eliminate a lot of wires.


It cuts it down to a single wire per DVR instead of two. I'm pretty sure it works the same for SD as well. I'm not sure how this would help your decision to upgrade to HD.


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## Sea bass

rcamille said:


> I have been a loyal TiVo user since 2000. I switched from DirecTV to Cablevision when TiVo and DirecTV severed ties a few years back. I own two TiVo HD units and love them.
> 
> After visiting a friend's home who has DirecTV, it was abundantly clear how lacking Cablevision is compared to DirecTV. Of course the big problem is that they still don't have a TiVo unit that will work on their system. Although a unit has been "promised" I feel like if I keep waiting I will never get anything.
> 
> Here is my dilemna. Do I switch to DirecTV now and get the HR24-500 or do I wait it out and hope that a DirecTivo is introduced by year end. Please dont suggest FiOs. It is not available i my area.
> 
> I would love to hear from people that have used TiVo and now have the DirecTV DVR. I love my TiVo's and am afraid I will hate the DirecTV DVR. I hated the Scientific Atlanta DVRs that Cablevision had.
> 
> Any input would be appreciated!!!


I have an HR24 and DSR704...the HR24 is winning out, I really like it, 30 second skip / slip, dual buffers, TV still on in background when navigating through menus, asthetics...I was seriously wondering what advantages there would be with a new Directv Tivo HD receiver vs. the HR24. Keep in mind, I have a lot of love for my DSR704, but the new HR model kicks butt! Get one, you will be quite pleased.


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## yy4u

HiDefGator said:


> It cuts it down to a single wire per DVR instead of two. I'm pretty sure it works the same for SD as well. I'm not sure how this would help your decision to upgrade to HD.


Yes it only cuts down that one wire from the dish But I have an old school Tivo & I use svid & optical out that would cut to one wire HDMI & I use the coax out to run the DVR in to a bed room 1 more wire. I ran the DVR into the bed room because I did not want to pay for a 2nd one I am controlling it with a Leap frog remote extender so there are some more wires gone if I get the whole house solution. So for me yes its much cleaner.


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## Matt L

Also with SWM you can eliminate the network connection, one more wire gone --that is if you have a network enabled device. There is a massive amount of free streaming content from D, and a good deal more paid streaming.


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## aizjanika

stevel said:


> It's just called something else - anything a TiVo wishlist can do, a DirecTV keyword search can do. The reverse is not true.


I've never been able to figure out how to save a search on my HR22 and/or HR24s the way you can with a Tivo wishlist. I don't want to set it to autorecord; I just want to save the wishlist search so that I can check it myself later and choose which shows/movies I want to record. Is it actually possible to save these searches somehow? If I search out a favorite actor, for instance, the options I see are autorecord, filmography, awards, and done. I don't see an option to save the search without autorecording, but I'd love it if I could.

I never had DirecTivos, but I was using Series 2 Tivos (two 80-hour single tuners and one DRT800 single tuner) with IR blasters with older SD DirecTV receivers. We upgraded to HD upstairs in the den more than a few years ago when there weren't many HD channels available. We continued using the Series 2 Tivo with the H21 receiver up there. A few years ago we got an HD TV for the family room. We bought an HR22 at Best Buy and my husband installed it himself. We waited to upgrade, because I didn't want to do without my Tivo, so we left my DRT800 with lifetime hooked up to an SD receiver and hooked up to the same TV as the HR22. That Tivo is almost never used.

I, too, was waiting for the new HD DirecTivos--for the family room, and then for my home office. We finally gave up just a couple of weeks ago. We ordered two HR24s from 6th Avenue Electronics online and had the MRV set up last Friday.

I miss my Tivos terribly. I don't like the search function on the DTV DVRs (I seem to have better luck on the Tivos) or the limit of 50 series recordings. I also miss the Wish List and being able to undelete. OTOH, now we have three HD DVRs, and I think that will be enough space and series recordings for us, and I'm learning to live without the other features.

I love the MRV. The HR24s are quite a bit faster than the HR22 that we have (which is ridiculously slow). I loved the way the Tivo search function worked, I loved the Wish Lists, and the whole interface of the Tivo, but the addition of the HR24s and the MRV--and a new HD TV in my home office--has made it worthwhile. I'm happy with our new setup.

If they ever come out with the HD DTivo, I plan to look into it, but we paid $188 each for the HR24s and $199 for the upgrade to MRV, and we're not likely to shell out tons of $$$ again for a DTivo anytime soon.

I'm jealous to hear of people paying only $49 for the MRV upgrade. We were also a long-time customer of DTV and they offered us $100 off if we got the new HD DVRs from them, but would not guarantee HR24s, and then insisted we pay $49 to install the DVRs and $49 to install the MRV--two separate work orders.

After discussing it with my husband, we decided to do it, but order the HR24s from someplace other than DTV, because I wanted to make sure we got HR24s. When I called back to set up the installations, they waived the installation fees, though still insisted on two separate work orders, though only one guy showed up anyway.

The installation guy said they only had HR24s right now, so we would have received those anyway, but it may vary by location.

ETA: I forgot to mention that we paid $199 for the MRV (plus tax), but they ended up not charging us the $49 service fee. So it cost us just about $600 total to upgrade.


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## stevel

The "keyword searches" are automatically saved - you can bring up the list and select a previously searched for thing.


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## Andy in NYC

If this isn't the best place to ask this question, my apologies.

I've been a long time DTV customer - they've stated that I'm eligible for new equipment in the past when I call. Presently, my OTA reception via the HR10-250 is lacking; all of my other tuners have no problems and the Tivo likes to stutter on several channels. I'd also like the HD content I'm missing via the dish.

I have 1 HR10-250 and 1 HDVR2 (?) a Series II standard def box.

I'd like 2 HR24's with Whole Home. My present wiring runs from the basement directly to the TVs, so I'll only need a new dish and new switch/etc. in the basement. The wire(s) from the dish can be reused as well.

I'm currently subscribing to the top tier - Premier with Locals. We currently auto pay on a credit card. I don't think we get the $10 off on that - should we?

I'd like two HR24s and whole home. Is there anything else I should get that I would think is related to Whole Home but DTV thinks of as separate?

I'd like the boxes and installation free plus lots of other stuff <g>.

Realistically, what's available/what should I be able to negotiate/ask for/receive?

I hate to give up Tivo, but HD content is much better than it used to be and I'm only getting my locals off OTA in HD.

Thanks all. Happy holidays.

Andrew


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## bigpuma

Andy in NYC said:


> If this isn't the best place to ask this question, my apologies.
> 
> I've been a long time DTV customer - they've stated that I'm eligible for new equipment in the past when I call. Presently, my OTA reception via the HR10-250 is lacking; all of my other tuners have no problems and the Tivo likes to stutter on several channels. I'd also like the HD content I'm missing via the dish.
> 
> I have 1 HR10-250 and 1 HDVR2 (?) a Series II standard def box.
> 
> I'd like 2 HR24's with Whole Home. My present wiring runs from the basement directly to the TVs, so I'll only need a new dish and new switch/etc. in the basement. The wire(s) from the dish can be reused as well.
> 
> I'm currently subscribing to the top tier - Premier with Locals. We currently auto pay on a credit card. I don't think we get the $10 off on that - should we?
> 
> I'd like two HR24s and whole home. Is there anything else I should get that I would think is related to Whole Home but DTV thinks of as separate?
> 
> I'd like the boxes and installation free plus lots of other stuff <g>.
> 
> Realistically, what's available/what should I be able to negotiate/ask for/receive?
> 
> I hate to give up Tivo, but HD content is much better than it used to be and I'm only getting my locals off OTA in HD.
> 
> Thanks all. Happy holidays.
> 
> Andrew


The problem you are going to have is that DirecTV won't guarantee HR24s for free. Meaning you could call them up and get free HD DVRs but the installer will bring whatever he has so you would probably end up with HR23s. Unfortunately the only way to guarantee HR24s is to "buy" (receivers would still be leased) them from a retailer directly for $199 each then contact DirecTV for the installation.

As for what you need for Whole home DirecTV should include everything you need when they install it and set it all up for you.

New Dish with either a built in Single Wire Multi-Switch (SWM) or a separate SWM
DECAs for each receiver unless you get HR24s which have built in DECAs (I believe)
DECA plus power inserter for connecting to your router so your receivers can access the internet and download On Demand or whatever they call it on DirecTV.

You will also get a lot more information if you post your question at DBSTALK:
http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=12


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## yoyo_58

yoyo_58 said:


> how long do y'all think it'll be before D* runs out of HR 23's and ships only the 24's?


got my first HD set (Panasonic TC-P50S2) and called D* for HD service. got a HR24-500 unit installed, 6 mos $10 off, 12 mos free HD so my bill will go down $10 for 6 mos, 2 mos Showtime. here's hoping the auto pay credit is still available in 12 mos.

very happy with the software so far. huge diff from the SD software


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## DreadPirateRob

My install is tomorrow. Crossing my fingers for two HR24s.


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## mschwab

Adam1115 said:


> I just got the MRV... it's SO awesome.... Good advise!


OK, what the heck is MRV???

And do I need a particular HR2x model to get it?


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## scottjf8

mschwab said:


> OK, what the heck is MRV???
> 
> And do I need a particular HR2x model to get it?


Multi-room viewing. Allows you to watch any program in any room on any DVR that is compatible. Works with all HR2x receivers. However you do need a Single Wire Multiswitch and the adapters. DirecTV will upgrade your old switch for (I believe it was) about $100.


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## mschwab

scottjf8 said:


> Multi-room viewing. Allows you to watch any program in any room on any DVR that is compatible. Works with all HR2x receivers. However you do need a Single Wire Multiswitch and the adapters. DirecTV will upgrade your old switch for (I believe it was) about $100.


Ah, OK, I saw the Whole Home option but I didn't put it together.

Is it true what I read before, that if you order the Whole Home + MRV + Cinema Plus + HD DVR, you will be guaranteed to get only HR24s? And the slim line dish and SWM8?


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## scottjf8

I *imagine* it would be 24's, but you just never know... But others can chime in who have ordered and had it installed recently.


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## brott

mschwab said:


> Ah, OK, I saw the Whole Home option but I didn't put it together.
> 
> Is it true what I read before, that if you order the Whole Home + MRV + Cinema Plus + HD DVR, you will be guaranteed to get only HR24s? And the slim line dish and SWM8?


Ordering new HD DVR with Whole Home will most likely get you an HR24 (not guaranteed).

Whole Home DVR Service is the same thing MRV (Multi-Room Viewing). Just the marketing name DIRECTV chose to use.

Cinema Plus is really the cinema connection kit or in laymens terms, a dongle to bridge your home network with the new networking that DIRECTV uses via their coax cables. It's not specific to the 24 and would be needed for Internet connectivity with any of the HRs.

If you are just ordering one HD, you'd most likely get a Slimline with the SWiM LNB built in.

Lastly, to get Whole Home DVR Service, you'd need a second HD capable receiver or HD DVR. If you only have a single compatible device, you would have no need for Whole home DVR Service and I don't think they will sell it to you.


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## DreadPirateRob

DreadPirateRob said:


> My install is tomorrow. Crossing my fingers for two HR24s.


Install done. Got my two HR24s and my MRV. Awesome. The tech was really great, and told me that they are rolling out HR25s in February, and rumors are that the HDTivo rolls out in June. Take that for what it's worth.


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## bengalfreak

scottjf8 said:


> Works with all HR2x receivers. However you do need a Single Wire Multiswitch and the adapters.


Almost true, MRV doesn't work with the HR20's. But DirecTV doesn't distribute those anymore so its a moot point.


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## stevel

Are you sure MRV doesn't work with the HR20? And yes, DirecTV is still sending refurbished HR20s to customers.


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## bigpuma

bengalfreak said:


> Almost true, MRV doesn't work with the HR20's. But DirecTV doesn't distribute those anymore so its a moot point.


MRV does work with HR20s. Why do you think it doesn't?

ETA: The HR20 has a slightly different set up than the other HR2* series but it works fine. 
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=177195


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## joed32

bigpuma said:


> MRV does work with HR20s. Why do you think it doesn't?
> 
> ETA: The HR20 has a slightly different set up than the other HR2* series but it works fine.
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=177195


He may be thinking of the H20. I have 3 HR20s using MRV.


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## mschwab

brott said:


> . . . If you are just ordering one HD, you'd most likely get a Slimline with the SWiM LNB built in. . .


Now I'm more confused. Isn't the SWM LNB built in to the slimline functionally the same as the SWM8 (supports up to 8 receivers)?


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## stevel

mschwab said:


> Now I'm more confused. Isn't the SWM LNB built in to the slimline functionally the same as the SWM8 (supports up to 8 receivers)?


No. It has 2 (I think) SWM outputs only. A SWM8 also has "legacy" outputs that can be used with DTivos.


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## mschwab

Ah, so then if I ordered MRV with at least 2 HD DVRs, then they would give me a "regular" dish with 4 outputs, connected to a SWM8?


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## litzdog911

bengalfreak said:


> Almost true, MRV doesn't work with the HR20's. But DirecTV doesn't distribute those anymore so its a moot point.


MRV works fine with the HR20s. But the HR20-100 requires a special DECA connection setup.


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## bengalfreak

stevel said:


> Are you sure MRV doesn't work with the HR20? And yes, DirecTV is still sending refurbished HR20s to customers.


I'm pretty sure they are not sending them out anymore. Well, lets put it this way, when I upgraded, they did NOT want me to return my leased HR20 to them. Maybe they are still sending out what they have.

And it appears you are correct, the HR20 does work with MRV.


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## Matt L

MRV works fine on all the HR2x boxes, with or without SWM. Without is just a bit more of a hassle.


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## stevel

DirecTV supports MRV only with its DECA/SWM connections, though it also works when you use Ethernet. However, DirecTV will make it very difficult for you to order the "Whole House" feature if you're not using DECA/SWM.


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## Matt L

Yes, but "unsupported" is available and works very well. I made a simple 5 minute phone call, others have emailed, not difficult at all.


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## codespy

DreadPirateRob said:


> Install done. Got my two HR24s and my MRV. Awesome. The tech was really great, and told me that they are rolling out HR25s in February, and rumors are that the HDTivo rolls out in June. Take that for what it's worth.


There is no "HR25"...at this point. There is a H25-500 manufactured by Humax that's been recently certified, that's all the details for now.


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## Adam1115

Sweet! I totally came here to learn about tote bags!


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## Kablemodem

Do these tote bags have more than 50 series links?


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## HiDefGator

At an investor's conference yesterday Tivo's CEO said the DirecTivo is now targeted at the first half of 2011. So it seems safe we won't be seeing one before July.


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## oosik77

DreadPirateRob said:


> Install done. Got my two HR24s and my MRV. Awesome. The tech was really great, and told me that they are rolling out HR25s in February, and rumors are that the HDTivo rolls out in June. Take that for what it's worth.


I'll believe June but what year is the question....


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## Kablemodem

My installer brought two HR24-200s and one HR24-500 today.


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## mschwab

Kablemodem said:


> My installer brought two HR24-200s and one HR24-500 today.


Congrats! And what did you do to get HR24s? Was this a new order? Did you order Whole House / MRV I presume?

And what is the difference between an HR24-200 and an HR24-500? I thought I read that the number after the dash only indicated the manufacturer.


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## Kablemodem

mschwab said:


> Congrats! And what did you do to get HR24s? Was this a new order? Did you order Whole House / MRV I presume?
> 
> And what is the difference between an HR24-200 and an HR24-500? I thought I read that the number after the dash only indicated the manufacturer.


Yes and Yes.

Yes.


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## smak

Finally getting it back this Thursday. Getting two HR24's and the HD receiver, with the whole home. Hopefully I won't go into two much Tivo withdrawal, though my Premiere still has a ton of shows on it, so it'll take me awhile to watch everything.

-smak-


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