# American Idol "Finale" 5/20/08 *spoilers*



## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

I have to finish up something but will be back soon.

Wow I was able to skip a ton of stuff before they got to the first song!!

David Cook - 1-866-IDOLS-01, 03 or 05 - *Song 1*: I've still haven't found what I'm looking for - I thought he did real good with this first one. *Song 2*: Songwriter song: Dream Big - I thought he did good but I wasn't sure I liked the song, it pretty much sucked for me but the performance was great. *Song 3*: The World I know by Collective Soul - I like this song. I'm glad he picked one he didn't do before. I thought he did much better on this song and hopefully it will give him a boost going into the voting. Geez could Simon put it on a platter more for baby David? UGH 

David Archuleta - 1-866-IDOLS-02, 04 or 06 - *Song 1*: I thought he did really good and the crowd reaction makes me worry for Cook. *Song 2*: Songwriter song: In this moment: Wow a ballet song how shocking.. Ugh! It was alright I just don't like Archuleta... I must try to get Cook the win. Simon doing his best to shill Achie to the win. *Song 3*: Imagine - what a shock another ballad. Of course he did alright at it. Cook is so much more versatile than Archie but the teen girls probably can't see it. Randy praises make me want to vomit. With Simon's final words the David Cook burial is now complete.


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

Cook - strong U2. Baby - much better when I closed my eyes rather than watching him perform.
Randy, calm down, dawg!


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## tem (Oct 6, 2003)

are any of these stupid prefabbed "inspirational" songs ever any good ? that thing sucked.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

performance good = song sucked.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

tem said:


> are any of these stupid prefabbed "inspirational" songs ever any good ? that thing sucked.


I actually thought that (Cook's song) was among the best of the Songwriter Contest entries. I was entertained by it. It wasn't a nauseating ballad with the cliche of having the choir in the robes file in and sing backup in a big inspirational anthemic moment, like they normally have.

ETA: Now, see, Archuleta's song sucked. I think the difference is obvious, is it not?


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

bored in hotel room so this is torture live...if randy makes more phone book comments paula needs to hit him!

I admit i dont know what makes a good singer but so far, i dont see that these are the most fantastic songs or performances...thus why i'm not up there judging. 

Arch seemed to strain on the 1st one a bit. And since i'm not looking at the screen when listening, i'm more tuned into their voices. Cook has a unique voice for sure but is seems to be a niche thing for me.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

newsposter said:


> bored in hotel room so this is torture live...if randy makes more phone book comments paula needs to hit him!


With what... a phone book?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

newsposter said:


> bored in hotel room so this is torture live...if randy makes more phone book comments paula needs to hit him!
> 
> I admit i dont know what makes a good singer but so far, i dont see that these are the most fantastic songs or performances...thus why i'm not up there judging.
> 
> Arch seemed to strain on the 1st one a bit. And since i'm not looking at the screen when listening, i'm more tuned into their voices. Cook has a unique voice for sure but is seems to be a niche thing for me.


throw the phone book at the TV.


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## IRONROOF56 (Dec 17, 2004)

I swear to god, that Phone book quote needs to be prohibited next year, Randy needs to change this, good is boring, Cook please win this!!!


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Did Archuleta's dad line Simon's pockets before the show?


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

Maybe the most Whitneyed up Imagine ever. Ghastly!


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## wooh (Feb 20, 2006)

Kamakzie said:


> Did Archuleta's dad line Simon's pockets before the show?


Simon knows how the votes have been all season. He doesn't want to look like an idiot and say that loser did better.

The entire show Archuletta looks terrified that he'll lose and his dad will kill him.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

i have to ask: does anyone who didnt like one of the guys feel like changing their vote tonight? I always wondered when we are down to the final 2 if you 'really' only vote based on tonights show (ie is it really necessary) or you are voting for your guy regardless?


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

I think the little guy could actually take this thing.

I almost think DC wants to lose, so he will have more artistic freedom....


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## DLL66 (Oct 21, 2002)

They are play up Archuletta. That Imagine sucked, he butchered it. David Cook will be alright. Cook will go way further than Archuletta. 

All three judges playing up Archuletta................


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

I think Simon just threw the final handful of dirt on David Cook.


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## robbhimself (Sep 13, 2006)

a lot of news stories have been coming out about david c being favored with song choice, band arrangement, song order, etc.. so i think to save some face they are really padding david a's comments..

does randy have any versatility with his comments? it's always [noun] dawg, you [verb] dawg, yeah.. it's like he's got a mad libs behind that coke cup and is getting words from paula


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

oh boy, are they trying to boost rubens career? Or was he the only one available  Of course i dont like the song because they used it all year on the show. I preferred last year loser song.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

newsposter said:


> i have to ask: does anyone who didnt like one of the guys feel like changing their vote tonight? I always wondered when we are down to the final 2 if you 'really' only vote based on tonights show (ie is it really necessary) or you are voting for your guy regardless?


If I were to vote, it'd be for Cook. Admittedly I would've wanted him to win before hearing any of the songs, but the performances tonight did nothing to discourage that opinion. Cook is the more entertaining and more accessible artist; Archuleta does nothing but sing syrupy sweet ballads cluttered up with irritating melisma.


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## DLL66 (Oct 21, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> If I were to vote, it'd be for Cook. Admittedly I would've wanted him to win before hearing any of the songs, but the performances tonight did nothing to discourage that opinion. Cook is the more entertaining and more accessible artist; Archuleta does nothing but sing syrupy sweet ballads cluttered up with irritating melisma.


:up: Completely agreed.


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## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

wooh said:


> Simon knows how the votes have been all season. He doesn't want to look like an idiot and say that loser did better.


If you believe DialIdol, Cook has actually been in the lead for most of the season.



nyny523 said:


> I think the little guy could actually take this thing.
> 
> I almost think DC wants to lose, so he will have more artistic freedom....


I've been saying all along that Archuleta will win it all. I think that winning would be the worst possible thing that could happen to David Cook.

That said, I will vote for David Cook. Cause, you know, I love him more.


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## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

On a related note, I had forgotten how Ruben couldn't hit and hold a note to save his life.

How did this guy win? Oh, right...the phones didn't register all the votes.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

who is the "big star" that was supposed to be on the show tonight?


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## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> who is the "big star" that was supposed to be on the show tonight?


Reckon it was Ruben.

Where, you know, big has many and varied meanings.


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## jpwoof (May 19, 2004)

Kamakzie said:


> I thought he did much better on this song and hopefully it will give him a boost going into the voting. Geez could Simon put it on a platter more for baby David? UGH


OMG! You should have seen Simon campaining for Cook to win the AI on Leno Show last night and Ellen show today. He was saying Cook was original and worked hard for this, unlike the "other guy", no charisma experience. It was so brutal over-pimping. Not sure what happened tonight but the table has turned.

Being a fan of David A. I'm guessing, they're gonna give the crown to Cook still. They just dont want to break David A's heart tonight, just because he's been dreaming about this ever since he was little. Simon once said, he was groomed to be an AI.


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## crazywater (Mar 7, 2001)

Cook is so much more versatile in his vocal style than Archuleta it isn't even close. I would NEVER buy a David Archuleta album unless I needed help getting to sleep. He can only sing ballads and not very well. Whenever he has tried to sing an uptempo tune he has failed miserably which is why he picked two ballads and had the third one picked for him by Clive Davis. Cook can sing anything and he should win, although I think he hopes he does not.

The judges and AI are so in the tank for Archuleta it is maddening. I pretty much predicted each of the judges critique after each performance.

I think Cook picked songs he knew would be good but not get him the win. He needs to lose this so he can make the album he wants to make and not the clap-trap that AI will force on him.


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## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

jpwoof said:


> Being a fan of David A. I'm guessing, they're gonna give the crown to Cook still.


I know that there are a lot of conspiracy theorists out there, but I choose to believe that the producers--and the judges--have squat to say about who gets the crown at this point. It's all in the hands of 14-year-old girls with autodialers.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

God would Randy STFU already. He tries to hard to act hip and ends up sounding like a tool.


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## jpwoof (May 19, 2004)

crazywater said:


> I think Cook picked songs he knew would be good but not get him the win. He needs to lose this so he can make the album he wants to make and not the clap-trap that AI will force on him.


Cook did say, he wanted to win the whole thing. Besides winning AI isnt really a bad thing. If you're really talented enough in you're genre (e.g. Carrie), it doesnt mean anything.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Lori said:


> I know that there are a lot of conspiracy theorists out there, but I choose to believe that the producers--and the judges--have squat to say about who gets the crown at this point. It's all in the hands of 14-year-old girls with autodialers.


I'm countering at least one teen girl by using dialidol and voting for Cook


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## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

Kamakzie said:


> I'm countering at least one teen girl by using dialidol and voting for Cook


Me, too.

But with my one little vote, I'm a little outclassed.

How many do you think you'll get in?


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

14 year olds have auto-dialers??? 

I am definitely out of touch with the younger generation...


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Lori said:


> Reckon it was Ruben.
> 
> Where, you know, big has many and varied meanings.


wow.. Seriously?

SERIOUSLY?

They were debating who it would be on the local L.A. Fox station's morning show. No one guessed him.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Sorry guys - Archuleta knocked it out of the park tonight. 
Cook was barely phoning it in. 
U2 wants their song rights back.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Lori said:


> Me, too.
> 
> But with my one little vote, I'm a little outclassed.
> 
> How many do you think you'll get in?


I've gotten about 50 or so right now. A lot of times I get a line is temporarily busy message. Cook's lines are getting slammed.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> wow.. Seriously?
> 
> SERIOUSLY?
> 
> They were debating who it would be on the local L.A. Fox station's morning show. No one guessed him.


Well, he did lose weight, but he's still pretty big... seriously, I bet that was intentional wordplay.


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## kar74 (Feb 13, 2005)

OK - I also wasn't impressed with the whole "inspirational" thing behind David Cook's original song, but his delivery and overall performance of it was great. It's something I would download.  

Even at the finale, I STILL don't get the obsession over David A. I don't think I've ever seen him perform an upbeat song.

That said, I don't really care which David wins. Even if DC ends up in 2nd place, it's still a good - if not better - place to be.


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## ahartman (Dec 28, 2001)

Cainebj said:


> Sorry guys - Archuleta knocked it out of the park tonight.
> Cook was barely phoning it in.
> U2 wants their song rights back.


I don't think I could disagree more.

Archie's first song was okay (a typically predictable ballad), but it went off the rails after that. His 2nd song was horrible - I couldn't believe my ears when Simon praised it. I'm no Lennon fan but I still thought his Imagine Redux was terrible. Nothing but vocal acrobatics. Though I don't really care for Lennon and that song, I realize it should be left alone and sung straight.

Cook's first song was okay (not a big U2 fan). 2nd song was pretty good - the words were a bit Disney, but I could definately hear it on the radio; plus, it wasn't the regular crappy song in that category. 3rd song was good - I thought he should've hit the chorus a bit sooner than he did, but still quite good.

The judges have railroaded this thing all season - it's shameful how much they've campaigned during the show for Archuletta.

Round 1 arguably could've gone for Archuletta, but the rest of the night was Cook's.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Lori said:


> I know that there are a lot of conspiracy theorists out there, but I choose to believe that the producers--and the judges--have squat to say about who gets the crown at this point. It's all in the hands of 14-year-old girls with autodialers.


The fine print that runs past you at the speed of light at the end of each show says something along the lines of their having the ability to "clause" anyone out if they think that there is power voting or manipulation of phone lines. 
If they do decide to cap the phone lines so that it is close or a tie then they can "declare" anyone they want. With this years emphasis on power texting and Gizmo this could really come into play.


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## TiVoLance (Aug 29, 2002)

Cook didnt do so hot tonight. I was kinda bored by both David's but I enjoyed David A's first two songs more than cook. Have no idea who will win.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Everyone keeps saying it will be better for Cook to lose, but I don't see why. If I am not mistaken AI has the option to give contracts to anyone in the top ten and they also have somewhat of a non-compete clause where they can't sign anywhere else until AI officially passes on them. 

This was why the one contestant bowed out before the top ten that one year so he wouldn't be locked down if he lost, iirc. 

Personally Cook is the only reason I even kept watching. For the most part he has done everything I would have being in his position. There are really good orignial style covers out there and you rarely see anyone on the show perform in the style of the more modern covers such as Chris Cornell's cover of Billie Jean. 

I can't even stand to listen to the other David. His voice just gives me a headache.


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## jfelbab (Jan 18, 2002)

DA was the clear winner tonight, IMO.

But hey, it's all good. Everyone has different tastes. For me it is DA.


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## debtoine (May 17, 2001)

I'm not a huge fan of either David, but I think Baby David performed more like a winner tonight.

That said, because of Dial Idol and the like, it's anyone's game, unless the producers get involved.

deb


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> This was why the one contestant bowed out before the top ten that one year so he wouldn't be locked down if he lost, iirc.


And what was his name??? I guess that worked out well for him.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Archuleta was performing as if he was at the state fair Sunday at 3 PM.
Cook was performing as if he was in Madison Square Garden on a Saturday night.

Archuleta is just too inexperienced, too limited and has very little talent beyond a distinct voice.

I would be surprised if Archuleta doesn't win though.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

I think Cook totally picked the wrong song for his ending. He needs to pick songs we like, not songs he likes. Every time he's given more freedom to pick a song, he picks a downbeat song by some maudlin 90s-style "rock" band that doesn't rock at all.

I thought both did well in the first round. That was probably the first Archuleta performance I've liked all season. It ended up being the last one, too.

The second round songs were predictably lame. Neither one had a decent beginning. I like the concept letting them pick different songs from the list and neither of them singing the winning song, but the songs themselves were just lame.

Archuleta's Imagine, I thought, was awful. It was literally FUBAR. As I said above, Cook's final was just a boring song. Never went anywhere.

I say Archuleta wins it. Because how people vote and what people buy with their own money will be completely different things. Archuleta will be another in a line of Idol-winning flops. His win will place them below .500 in making successful recording artists out of winners of contest.


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## wooh (Feb 20, 2006)

Archuleta will win and be just as popular as the past winner Ruben.
Cook will lose and be even more popular than past loser Daughtry.


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## Neenahboy (Apr 8, 2004)

Someone mind putting the current DialIdol results in spoiler tags if they can get to them (site appears borked at the moment)?


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## debtoine (May 17, 2001)

Neenahboy said:


> Someone mind putting the current DialIdol results in spoiler tags if they can get to them (site appears borked at the moment)?


We can't get there either and I'm really curious.

deb


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Neenahboy said:


> Someone mind putting the current DialIdol results in spoiler tags if they can get to them (site appears borked at the moment)?





Spoiler



David Cook 45.27
David Archuleta 33.24

As of 12:05AM Eastern


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## ahartman (Dec 28, 2001)

JFriday said:


> And what was his name??? I guess that worked out well for him.


Mario Vasquez


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

God, Archuleta is SO bad.

Listen to the recap at the end, the note he sang during Imagine. RIP, John Lennon.. Your song just got ruined.


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

Can you people PLEASE tell me what the judges hear when they are fawning all over Archuletta? I mean he's a good singer, but he's never sang anything but ballads, he has no stage presence, and on top of that he does hit wrong notes.

Cook has magnificent stage presence, he takes risks, and he has marketability. 

Mark my words, Archuletta will win this season and follow down the path of other useless idols like Fantasia, Taylor Hicks, and Ruben.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

DavidTigerFan said:


> Can you people PLEASE tell me what the judges hear when they are fawning all over Archuletta? I mean he's a good singer, but he's never sang anything but ballads, he has no stage presence, and on top of that he does hit wrong notes.
> 
> Cook has magnificent stage presence, he takes risks, and he has marketability.
> 
> Mark my words, Archuletta will win this season and follow down the path of other useless idols like Fantasia, Taylor Hicks, and Ruben.


I don't think Archuleta will win but we shall see.


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## GreenBinx (May 1, 2008)

so basically, that was ridiculously unfair, just like they threw syesha under the bus last week, they tied dc on the railroad tracks just to be smashed by a speeding train. if they could have praised da any more, randy would have ingested him and gave birth to him all himself. dc's songs were all so different and amazing and da sounded the same in every one. ps, i loved dc's last song! he was amazing. im going to vote until my fingers fall off.


PS COUGARS LOVE COOK!


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

I really think all the Baby David love fest by the judges will back fire on Archuleta.


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

GreenBinx said:


> so basically, that was ridiculously unfair, just like they threw syesha under the bus last week, they tied dc on the railroad tracks just to be smashed by a speeding train. if they could have praised da any more, randy would have ingested him and gave birth to him all himself. dc's songs were all so different and amazing and da sounded the same in every one. ps, i loved dc's last song! he was amazing. im going to vote until my fingers fall off.
> 
> PS COUGARS LOVE COOK!


Welcome to the forum!


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## iceisles (Mar 9, 2003)

This was a weak finish for Cook, but he's got my 50 votes tonight. He's got far more potential, IMO.

Btw, did anyone notice that Randy thought we were still in 2007?


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## Philly Bill (Oct 6, 2004)

David A is gonna win it... I've been saying all along.


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## iceisles (Mar 9, 2003)

Philly Bill said:


> David A is gonna win it... I've been saying all along.


What's always worried me about David A. is the crazy screams he receives from all the adolescent girls. Even tonight, the crowd response for David A. was noticeably louder, and I think you can read a little into that.


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## justapixel (Sep 27, 2001)

This is been a really amazing season of Idol.

I've been trying to vote for Cook but can't get through.

They want Archeleta to win because they can mold him into what they want, which is the next non-threatening poster boy for Tiger Beat. Not to say he doesn't have a great voice, but Cook already has his own distinctive style. He'll have staying power and he'll do just fine coming in at number 2.

I predicted David A back in the first week. I stick to it but I really really want Cook to win - if he wants to win. I've already purchased all his studio recordings on iTunes. 

:up: :up: :up: Go DC!


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

ahartman said:


> Mario Vasquez


Yea he didn't need AI helping promote him.

Vazquez's self-titled album was released September 26, 2006 by Arista Records. The album debuted at #80 with 12,000 sold, falling out of the Top 200 within two weeks.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

justapixel said:


> They want Archeleta to win because they can mold him into what they want, which is the next non-threatening poster boy for Tiger Beat.


I'm not sure that will be that easy with Super stage dad.


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## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

innocentfreak said:


> Everyone keeps saying it will be better for Cook to lose, but I don't see why. If I am not mistaken AI has the option to give contracts to anyone in the top ten and they also have somewhat of a non-compete clause where they can't sign anywhere else until AI officially passes on them.


That is true...but the winner historically has had less creative freedom. They signed Jordin Sparks and Chris Daughtry to contracts...which one made a better album? The winner's album will sound the same no matter who wins...the runner up at least has a shot at making an album that's interesting.

OTOH, I still *want* DC to win, even though it will crush Archuleta, and even though I think it won't be the best thing for him in the short-term. I'm selfish like that.


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## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

The hot rumor on Mario Vasquez was that he left because he was gay, and he was afraid that it would come out in the media circus that is Idol.

Also, didn't matter if he left or not--19 still had an option on him. Even if you don't make it to Hollywood, 19 still has an option on you until after the season ends. So, him leaving didn't guarantee that they wouldn't sign him. 

Him not being very good, however, probably had something to do with it.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Dial Idol updated numbers.



Spoiler



David Cook	---- 44.99
David Archuleta 32.89


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## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

Kamakzie said:


> Dial Idol updated numbers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



That is a bold prediction. If it comes to pass, I'm thrilled.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

No one has mentioned (or have they) that Randy twice mentioned this being the 2007 American Idol winner ????

I really don't like David A. and I've always liked David C. but David A. had a far superior night. It's a good test of how people vote. If you vote on the night then A has to win it, if you vote over the season and/or personality then C wins


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## wooh (Feb 20, 2006)

Kamakzie said:


> I really think all the Baby David love fest by the judges will back fire on Archuleta.


Perhaps that was the point. To get the "sympathy" vote going for Cook? All the, "The judges hated him, I'd better vote for him!"


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

Both contestants are "meh" for me. I still don't agree with 90&#37; of this thread about Cook. He's got a weak voice and can't hit the power notes. That's not a good thing when you call yourself a rocker.

Archie is so vanilla. I could see how he would be good to listen to after you just got done listening to 60 mins of heavy metal and want to clear your palate before diving into some gansta rap.


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

JohnB1000 said:


> No one has mentioned (or have they) that Randy twice mentioned this being the 2007 American Idol winner ????


I noticed that too. I was surprised no one corrected him on the show. For a moment I thought I had traveled to an alternate time line! 

I was thrilled that they brought back Andrew Lloyd Weber to help with coaching the contestants for the finale. I said before that he has been the only celebrity mentor who I feel *really* gave some valid critiques and pointers for them.


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## Uncle Briggs (Sep 11, 2004)

nyny523 said:


> I think the little guy could actually take this thing.


Yeah, tonight is the first that I ever thought that DA might win it. Simon was absolutely right. DC should have performed either Hello or Billie Jean. Those two performances blew people away. Tonight none of his performances did.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Spoiler



Cook: 41.001
Archaleta: 29.43



I got in about 750 votes for Cook.


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## Jesda (Feb 12, 2005)

"World I Know" is one of my favorite-ever songs, and I didn't care for how David Cook changed the melody and instrumentation. Its an inspirational song that would have been served with fewer runs and more strings.

Everytime DA looks to be on the verge of crying I want to punch him.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

With the polls closed on the West Coast for about an hour and a half now, the earlier DialIdol prediction still stands, pretty-much unchanged. Make no mistake: Often people accuse DialIdol of being wrong when in reality they simply didn't make a prediction with the numbers they had. They have only actually been wrong once this season -- one prediction out of about 30 (?). And they *are* making a firm prediction this year. They have been correct with this last prediction for the last two years. (The year before that, they declared the contest too close to call.)


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Kamakzie said:


> I really think all the Baby David love fest by the judges will back fire on Archuleta.


And perhaps that was the point?

Give Archie his props but deny his fans a need to powervote quite as hard, as it would appear he has it in the bag. And rile the Cooktards up beyond belief so that they are seriously motivated to vote harder and longer.

Simon's little wink to Cook there at the end was... interesting.

Tonight Simon could say Archie had the better night but based on the seasons body of work Cook deserves the win. No reason for the Archuletta camp to get all indignant and say they threw *him* under the bus, either. Win Cook.

Brilliant.


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## Todd (Oct 7, 1999)

After seeing Simon on Leno, I was surprised at his shilling for DA.

I liked the second song DC sang. I hope he records it.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

I'm a big David Cook fan (pretty much since the beginning) and cannot stand Archuleta. However on the first song he definitely did better than Cook (and I love that U2 song). He pretty much just sang the stupid song, for once, and I enjoyed it. Until the last few bars when he tried to Whitney-it-up again. The second song really doesn't matter, but David A picked a better one (or more suitable). On the third song, I knew I was going to hate "Imagine" but I never, umm, _imagined_ I could hate it more than the first time he massacred it. Cook's song, while not a great choice (didn't know that song), was a much stronger performance. What he did ther, at the end, I turned to my wife and said "Archuleta couldn't do that". Maybe he could, but he certainly wouldn't. That's the thing about Baby David vs. David Cook -- you know what you are going to get every time with the first one, never any surprises. I think David Cook had an off night, but it really doesn't matter at this point. People will vote for their favorite, regardless of the last night performance. Very few will get swayed one way or another.

If anything, perhaps the judges' gushings over Baby David will actually backfire, as some of his supporters may not think he needs their votes to win.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

I got the impression that maybe Simon was trying to do David C a favor and by losing he'd put out a better album for all the reasons already stated.

By the way, is there any truth to the rumor that Baby David's album will be distributed by Time/Life? Seems he's much better suited for that than a regular record label!

I've always kind of dismissed people who say things like "that song sucked so bad I just FFd through it" - and you could tell it was so bad how??? From the first two notes? So if I'm going to form an opinion, I'll sit through the whole, excruciating thing. I wish Baby David had chosen to go first becuase his version of "Imagine" being the final performance left an incredibly bad taste in my mouth.

It takes an awful lot for me to actually hate a person, so while nowhere near hating David A, I absolutely don't like how he sings. I would never put out money to buy anything he does. I will say, however, that if I ever saw Jesda punch him, I would probably LMAO.


----------



## brettatk (Oct 11, 2002)

I overheard this conversation last night:

_David Cook: How would you beat him?
Simon: With a stick, while he slept. But on that stage, with a mic? That boy is unbeatable._

I really dont think it mattered how last night went. Archuleta has the bigger fan base and I have always believed he would win. I'd be really happy though if I am wrong.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

brettatk said:


> I overheard this conversation last night:
> 
> _David Cook: How would you beat him?
> Simon: With a stick, while he slept. But on that stage, with a mic? That boy is unbeatable._
> ...


A little Knight's Tale humor. I love it! :up:

But it makes me so sad thinking about Heath Ledger.


----------



## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

Funny thing about the teen girls voting for David A, I don't think he cares much for teen girls.....

Cook was much more intertaining. And I hate A's version of Imagine. So cheesy.


----------



## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

David A appears to be the next Jr. Josh Grobin.....YAWWWWN


----------



## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

imagine you had not heard either singer until last night.

imagine you had no other factors you based you vote on, fathers, lip licking et al.

Just based on last night's singing who would you vote for?

Me: DA

I also want to retract my precious statement about Cook's arrogance and smugness - I think I was wrong.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Jebberwocky! said:


> imagine you had not heard either singer until last night.
> 
> imagine you had no other factors you based you vote on, fathers, lip licking et al.
> 
> ...


I agree with this - if I were to base my choice on ONLY last night - it would be DA. He clearly had a better night.


----------



## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

I can see DA opening for Hannah Montana next year.

Frank


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

fmowry said:


> I can see DA opening for Hannah Montana next year.
> 
> Frank


:up:


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Jebberwocky! said:


> imagine you had not heard either singer until last night.
> 
> imagine you had no other factors you based you vote on, fathers, lip licking et al.
> 
> ...


I'm inclined to agree with you, as I liked DA at first, and didn't care much for Cook. But I just can't stand DA anymore... and last night, going head to head, it really became clear how insecure and undeveloped DA is compared to Cook. There was just no gravitas behind DAs singing.


----------



## Penny Lane (Dec 3, 2007)

If I had to pick one to watch singing = David C
If I had to pick one to only listen to = David A


----------



## ToddNeedsTiVo (Sep 2, 2003)

Even my 64-year-old mother emailed me about how she was all aglow about Archie last night. 

Yes, she has a pink cell phone.


----------



## stiffi (Jun 14, 2006)

Can somebody tell me what the heck the lyrics are to Ruben's song? It's been driving me nuts all season.

I hear "Please.. Celebrate me home..."

If that's right. What the heck does that mean?


----------



## kh92463 (Jan 25, 2008)

Wow - I am so TORN. I think they are both outstanding in their own ways. If you have ever performed before an audience before then you know how utterly freightening it is. I can't imagine of having to perform and then be criticized on my performance immediately following it...and to do it at only 17 yrs old!!!! Imagine being able to peform in front of the 25 million or so that veiwed AI last night? It's no wonder he looks like he's going to pass out. Poor kid. I think he is a sweet kid with a lot of talent and has taken a bit of a bad rap because of his dad. I really do think he is genuine. I know there are a lot who disagree but I think his "Imagine" was just incredible. He seems immature but then I keep telling myself he's only 17 (and was only 16 when the show started)

I think Clive Davis was right on the $$ with his song choices for both the guys.

David Cook just looks so comfortable up there and I think he covered U2 great. I was touched to see how moved he was after his performances - that must be the most incredible feeling in the world standing up there on that stage in front of all those people who are cheering for you...awesome. I loved his second song and I think that even if he loses he will have a very successful career. 

In my eyes, they are both winners!!!! 

The only disappointment for me this year was not being able to witness people transform into stars during the series...seems like they were all camera-ready right out of the gate. I remember the transformation of Eliot Yamin....I thought when he started he looked like a lost Amish boy but by the end was transformed and Jordin Sparks - who is so incredibly gorgeous.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

DavidTigerFan said:


> Can you people PLEASE tell me what the judges hear when they are fawning all over Archuletta?


They hear 98 Degrees. At least, that's what I hear.



Lori said:


> That is true...but the winner historically has had less creative freedom. They signed Jordin Sparks and Chris Daughtry to contracts...which one made a better album?


Jordin has two hit singles off her album, and it's a year newer than Daughtry's so it's still out there. (The example you were looking for was Taylor Hicks's album. And Katharine McPhee's. Though Elliot Yamin's is doing pretty well, I think. That was a good season, but the wrong two people made it to the finals.).

Carrie Underwood's debut album was also really good. Bo Bice's was terrible.



ToddNeedsTiVo said:


> Even my 64-year-old mother emailed me about how she was all aglow about Archie last night.


Does your mother buy contemporary music? My MIL (about the same age as your mom) was gushing over Archuleta all season, too. But she doesn't buy music, so, to the industry, what she thinks is irrelevant.

Which is why they need to find something other than votes on which to base eliminations. They need people to put their money where their mouths are. I suggest paid downloads with proceeds to Idol Gives Back.



stiffi said:


> Can somebody tell me what the heck the lyrics are to Ruben's song? It's been driving me nuts all season.
> 
> I hear "Please.. Celebrate me home..."
> 
> If that's right. What the heck does that mean?


I think that's right. Two possibilities on what it means. 1) It's like "walk me home" or "drive me home." 2) He's Scottish and thinks people should appreciate his house.


----------



## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

Did I hear Clive Davis right?

"I'm looking for a song that will speak to today's generation. I've selected 'Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me,' by Elton John."

Is that guy even more out of touch than Andrew Loydd Weber?


----------



## ToddNeedsTiVo (Sep 2, 2003)

aindik said:


> Does your mother buy contemporary music? My MIL (about the same age as your mom) was gushing over Archuleta all season, too. But she doesn't buy music, so, to the industry, what she thinks is irrelevant.


Good point. I doubt she's purchased ten CDs in the last ten years, and of those I don't think any were made by an Idol alum.


----------



## scsiguy72 (Nov 25, 2003)

I truly hated the fight analogies they kept throwing at us all night. Having the two contestants dressed up in robes and gloves was just lame.

Baby David looked about as comfortable as a 5th grader at a high school prom. David C looked like he was having fun with it, but knew it was cheesy.

I think this is my last year with AI, it just got so lame and over hyped and I really don&#8217;t care who wins and won&#8217;t buy music from either of them anyway.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

scsiguy72 said:


> I truly hated the fight analogies they kept throwing at us all night. Having the two contestants dressed up in robes and gloves was just lame.
> 
> Baby David looked about as comfortable as a 5th grader at a high school prom. David C looked like he was having fun with it, but knew it was cheesy.


I thought that part was fun and goofy, and Cook played along nicely. David A was insecure and had the dumb smile plastered on his face as usual. But he's 17 so I guess I can forgive him somewhat, although it's annoying that he acts as if he's 12.


----------



## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

Jebberwocky! said:


> imagine you had not heard either singer until last night.
> imagine you had no other factors you based you vote on, fathers, lip licking et al.
> Just based on last night's singing who would you vote for?


DA Definitely won the night. His "Don't Let the Sun Go Down On Me" was the first live performance of an Elton John song I enjoyed since Elton John lost his voice 25 years ago. Pure magic.

DC's performances were uninspired, almost as if he did not care if he won. I think DC would make a better Idol, but if you look at last night only, DA was by far the better singer. Even my wife who hates DA and loves DC cook thought DA won the night and deleted Idol immediately. Normally she keeps it and rewatches some of the performances the next day.


----------



## IRONROOF56 (Dec 17, 2004)

People keep saying David is a kid, and thats why he acts like that, 

So was Jordin Sparks (she was also 17) and she never came to look as so immature, I dont hate DA but how many times can we hear, gosh or Geez, Chris brown just turned 18, and he never sounded so childish as this David Archuleta.


----------



## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

IRONROOF56 said:


> People keep saying David is a kid, and thats why he acts like that,
> 
> So was Jordin Sparks (she was also 17) and she never came to look as so immature, I dont hate DA but how many times can we hear, gosh or Geez, Chris brown just turned 18, and he never sounded so childish as this David Archuleta.


maturity is not based on your age


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

DA acts like a dog that has been whipped repeatedly. He cowers and stammers and everything about his mannerisms and body language indicates some form of abuse. I think he is in a constant state of fear.

I feel sorry for him...


----------



## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

nyny523 said:


> DA acts like a dog that has been whipped repeatedly. He cowers and stammers and everything about his mannerisms and body language indicates some form of abuse. I think he is in a constant state of fear.
> 
> I feel sorry for him...


He acts like a typical unmature shy kid - I don't get the slightest fear vibe at all.


----------



## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

I think DA is a great singer. He is technically very very good. But he's also very boring. He reminds me of Clay Aiken. My wife bought Clay Aiken's first CD when it came out, and she listened to it once. All the songs sounded the same and she's never listened to it again. If Clay Aiken came on the radio, I don't think we'd even realize it was him. DA is the same way.

David Cook, on the other hand, has a distinctive sound, even though he's not as good a singer as DA. He's much more enjoyable to listen to. He'll win, and even if he didn't, his albums will outsell DA's.


----------



## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

nyny523 said:


> DA acts like a dog that has been whipped repeatedly. He cowers and stammers and everything about his mannerisms and body language indicates some form of abuse. I think he is in a constant state of fear.
> 
> I feel sorry for him...


Whats his Dad going to do if he loses tonight...


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Jebberwocky! said:


> He acts like a typical unmature shy kid - I don't get the slightest fear vibe at all.


I agree more with Ninny, though I wouldn't exactly call it fear. He doesn't only act immature, he acts insecure, as if he believes that whatever he says and does is wrong. He looks scared too, but I think that's more because of the situation (I'd be scared up on stage too ).


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

IRONROOF56 said:


> People keep saying David is a kid, and thats why he acts like that,
> 
> So was Jordin Sparks (she was also 17) and she never came to look as so immature, I dont hate DA but how many times can we hear, gosh or Geez, Chris brown just turned 18, and he never sounded so childish as this David Archuleta.


They probably learned to make decisions on their own before they went on the show.


----------



## thudtrain (Sep 29, 2005)

MickeS said:


> I agree more with Ninny, though I wouldn't exactly call it fear. He doesn't only act immature, he acts insecure, as if he believes that whatever he says and does is wrong. He looks scared too, but I think that's more because of the situation (I'd be scared up on stage too ).


He looked like he was going to have an episode right there on stage whenever it was time for the judges remarks. But I have to hand it to the kid, he pulled it together when it was time for the performance. You can't ask for more than that from a finalist. I actually liked all 6 performances, the weakest being Cook's middle song and Archie's Imagine performance, which is weird because I loved it the first time he sang it. Maybe it was just because I knew what I was expecting from it.

David Cook's first and third songs were flipping awesome.


----------



## iceisles (Mar 9, 2003)

I liked how Andrew Lloyd Webber dissed the lyrics of the contest song. He said something to the effect of, "Did Simon write this?" when talking about the "window's perfection" line. 

David Cook will win decisively, if the DI trend holds.


----------



## GreenBinx (May 1, 2008)

Kamakzie said:


> Whats his Dad going to do if he loses tonight...


i don't want to see the headline "David Sqaured: Archuletta dead at 17, leaving a sour victory for CoOK" in the news paper.
his dad better play nice!


----------



## iceisles (Mar 9, 2003)

If Randy uses the "phone book" analogy one more time, I'll probably fast forward through his comments next season. Either come up with new material or give up your chair to someone with balls (ALW comes to mind).


----------



## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

Kamakzie said:


> Whats his Dad going to do if he loses tonight...


I doubt we will ever find out


----------



## dmlove51 (Mar 17, 2004)

scottjf8 said:


> God, Archuleta is SO bad.
> 
> RIP, John Lennon.. Your song just got ruined.


I was screaming at the TV, it was so bad. People shouldn't sing other people's iconic songs, especially when said other person is dead.


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## iceisles (Mar 9, 2003)

I like how decent tour tickets are $65 (give or take). $65 for this bunch? I don't think so. I might pay $20 tops, and that would be mostly for Cook, Michael Johns, and maybe Carly. Castro would be good for a laugh, just to see how stoned he is.


----------



## Havana Brown (Feb 3, 2005)

GreenBinx said:


> PS COUGARS LOVE COOK!


I saw the sign that said that, it cracked me up.

I thought Cook looked a little scruffy for a finale. I wish he had cleaned up better.


----------



## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

Havana Brown said:


> I thought Cook looked a little scruffy for a finale. I wish he had cleaned up better.


When I mentioned his apperance a few weeks back, I was called "oldmanish"

hmmm. . . .


----------



## Havana Brown (Feb 3, 2005)

IRONROOF56 said:


> People keep saying David is a kid, and thats why he acts like that,
> 
> So was Jordin Sparks (she was also 17) and she never came to look as so immature, I dont hate DA but how many times can we hear, gosh or Geez, Chris brown just turned 18, and he never sounded so childish as this David Archuleta.


Did you hear how many goshes he said during his hometown tour? It was soooooo annoying!!!

Andrew Lloyd Webber was funny doing an imitation of Archuleta with his eyes closed.


----------



## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

For me, DA's singing is too infused with ridiculous vocal runs or added inflections or something. I prefer someone sings - smoother? - than letting the vocals 'run around' like that. I also don't care for injections of "baby" and "uh-huh" and "ya" and stuff like that when they don't belong there. Just a pet peeve of mine.



aindik said:


> Does your mother buy contemporary music? My MIL (about the same age as your mom) was gushing over Archuleta all season, too. But she doesn't buy music, so, to the industry, what she thinks is irrelevant.
> 
> Which is why they need to find something other than votes on which to base eliminations. They need people to put their money where their mouths are. *I suggest paid downloads with proceeds to Idol Gives Back.*


Yes, you do, every week. And you are certainly entitled to that.

I have no idea how many viewers this show has. I hear things tossed around like 25 million. Whatever. If we are to believe that a good chunk of the votes are by teenies texting their fingers bloody, etc., then I would venture to say that there is a relatively small percentage of viewers that actually vote. Most weeks I don't, sometimes I do.

However, between going from (a) sometimes voting when the mood strikes me (or when I've even watched the show within a time frame in which the voting lines would still be open!) to there's no way in hades I would even think of voting if I had to pay for it, and (b) how immensely annoying it would be to have to listen to the constant shilling of "go download the tunes now, for a small fee, to cast your vote for your favorite Idol - all proceeds going to AI Gives Back", I would never even consider watching the show anymore. And not that I am in any way a bell-weather for America in general, but I would guess that if people had to pony up in order to vote, the ratings would probably take a significant hit.

I really can't see them going to a paid-download type voting system - all they have to do is look at the sales of most of their crowned Idols to know that that would not be a good move.

The system they have now may not crown the best of the bunch, but at least the franchise is still immensely popular.


----------



## Neenahboy (Apr 8, 2004)

Kamakzie said:


> Whats his Dad going to do if he loses tonight...


I'm envisioning a "bad boy Logan Echolls" type scene here.


----------



## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Kamakzie said:


> Whats his Dad going to do if he loses tonight...


I almost think it would lean toward suing AI because they restricted his access to his son, effectively (in Papa A's mind, anyway) costing his boy the title.

Then he'd smack the little bas**** around a little.


----------



## KyleLC (Feb 6, 2002)

aindik said:


> 2) He's Scottish and thinks people should appreciate his house.


LOL!


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

I liked DC's subtle swipe at DA after Simon's critique, "to me, the show is about progression; I didn't want to do something everyone's already heard."

Hmmm, let's add Archuleta to the lexicon. "That performance really _cooked_." "That performance really _archuletad_." Archuleta = all melisma, no charisma.


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

JLucPicard said:


> I really can't see them going to a paid-download type voting system - all they have to do is look at the sales of most of their crowned Idols to know that that would not be a good move.
> 
> The system they have now may not crown the best of the bunch, but at least the franchise is still immensely popular.


That's sort of the point though. This type of voting will be done by the people who will buy the music and will ensure that the idols that will sell records will win.

I disagree that the ratings would suffer for it...the kids will still watch.


----------



## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> Everyone keeps saying it will be better for Cook to lose, but I don't see why. If I am not mistaken AI has the option to give contracts to anyone in the top ten and they also have somewhat of a non-compete clause where they can't sign anywhere else until AI officially passes on them.


"Top ten"? I'm pretty sure the application form every contestant has to sign mentions that everyone who makes it past a certain point much earlier than that (it may even be as early as the last audition before going to Hollywood, which would allow the producers first access to, for example, William Hung) has to accept a recording contract if the AI producers offer one.

-- Don


----------



## iceisles (Mar 9, 2003)

If Cook wins, they will have a hard time giving him a unique identity. He sounds a lot like Daughtry, which I don't think is a good thing for a new artist.


----------



## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

stiffi said:


> Can somebody tell me what the heck the lyrics are to Ruben's song? It's been driving me nuts all season.
> 
> I hear "Please.. Celebrate me home..."
> 
> If that's right. What the heck does that mean?


Are we so young that we've never heard of Kenny Loggins?

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/k/kenny+loggins/celebrate+me+home_20077720.html


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## cdM1A5YR (May 18, 2008)

Cook is great but Archuleta will win by a landslide and become a huge superstar. He is VERY talented.

Cook will also do amzingly well and get a big record deal as well. Best season of AI ever. Neither of these guys will do better than Carrie Underwood but they will both do pretty darn well.


----------



## robbhimself (Sep 13, 2006)

cdM1A5YR said:


> Cook is great but Archuleta will win by a landslide and become a huge superstar. He is VERY talented.
> 
> Cook will also do amzingly well and get a big record deal as well. Best season of AI ever. Neither of these guys will do better than Carrie Underwood but they will both do pretty darn well.


Hi Mr. Archuleta, welcome to the tivo forums.


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## iceisles (Mar 9, 2003)

Hopefully they have mopped up the puddles of Ruben's sweat before the real talent takes the stage again.


----------



## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

MonsterJoe said:


> That's sort of the point though. This type of voting will be done by the people who will buy the music and will ensure that the idols that will sell records will win.
> 
> I disagree that the ratings would suffer for it...the kids will still watch.


Ya, I suppose you're right. People will enjoy tuning into a weekly "Idol Gives Back" telethon.


----------



## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

cdM1A5YR said:


> Cook is great but Archuleta will win by a landslide and become a huge superstar. He is VERY talented.
> 
> Cook will also do amzingly well and get a big record deal as well. Best season of AI ever. Neither of these guys will do better than Carrie Underwood but they will both do pretty darn well.


I beg to differ, I think Cook is gonna wipe the floor with Archuleta.



Spoiler



DialIdol also agrees with me



Also to the one who says hard to market Cook vs. Daughtry and I disagree on that one too. Daughtry is a full band, Cook is single (unless he joins his previous bands (yes multiple) members and go that route. Also Daughtry and Cook are different sounds and Cook can sing the phone book  and not sure Daughtry can do that. Last comment is more of a joke then actual belief, I think Daughtry and Cook are both talented and same genre, but different sounds. It is liks saying Carly and Amanda were the same (which they were not, but they were both the rocker chicks)


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I don't think Daughtry and Cook have much in common beyond being "the rocker". Their voices are very different.


----------



## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

MickeS said:


> I don't think Daughtry and Cook have much in common beyond being "the rocker". Their voices are very different.


Really? Are we in a cave, I think there is an echo

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6306554#post6306554


----------



## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

robbhimself said:


> Hi Mr. Archuleta, welcome to the tivo forums.


it's nice to hear from David A's family after having to read posts from David Cook's extended family ad nauseum


----------



## cdM1A5YR (May 18, 2008)

Einselen said:


> I beg to differ, I think Cook is gonna wipe the floor with Archuleta.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I will happily bring your post up tonight and gloat when you are proven wrong. Just don't make excuses or say it's fixed when it happens, because it's not. Looking forward to my post tonight!!!


----------



## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

Has anyone followed DialIdol this year? I never heard of them until this thread. Have they predicted who goes home each week accurately? What about the 'shocker' (the guy for Australia/Buckhead Atlanta)? If they got that one right, I would have a lot of faith in them.

Is it possible for AI to mess with DialIdol by throwing in targeted busy signals? I think that is how DialIdol picks the winners.

I said for the past few months that everyone was competing for second place after DA, but it seems he has a lot of haters on the boards now. So even though he easily won the final, I am not so sure anymore.


----------



## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

cdM1A5YR said:


> I will happily bring your post up tonight and gloat when you are proven wrong. Just don't make excuses or say it's fixed when it happens, because it's not. Looking forward to my post tonight!!!


No it is fine. I do think Archuleta performed fantastically last night as well as Cook. To me though Archuleta needs to grow more (which is not a bad thing and if he wins he will be able, hopefully, to grow while being the American Idol). You put out your opinion that you think Archuleta is gonna wipe the floor with Cook and I think it is the other way, again all opinion and speculation as who knows what will happen. I am confident in Cook that I put down $5 with one of the performers at the local Howl at the Moon, so if tonight goes as planned, I will get free cover at Howl tomorrow


----------



## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Johnny Dancing said:


> Has anyone followed DialIdol this year? I never heard of them until this thread. Have they predicted who goes home each week accurately? What about the 'shocker' (the guy for Australia/Buckhead Atlanta)? If they got that one right, I would have a lot of faith in them.
> 
> Is it possible for AI to mess with DialIdol by throwing in targeted busy signals? I think that is how DialIdol picks the winners.


That week Brook, Michael (the guy you are ref), David Cook, Syesha and Carley were predicted to be bottom three (due to margin of error) so in essence yes they did predict him of going off.

In previous seasons DI has been fairly accurate, especially when it gets to the end and they can tweak the settings and behind the scenes calculations. What is interesting this year is they have predicted a clear winner where prior seasons it was "too close to call".

AI could mess with DI by throwing in "fake busy signals" but that would be stupid on AI's part as then the "normal" votes would not get counted as well. The way DI works is based on people using it, so the more people that use it the more accurate it can/will become. It takes in the fact that busy signals is an "assumed vote" and then also calculates how easy it is to get through for other contestants (i.e. votes to busy signal ratio) and calculates a DI score from there. On the predictions page you can also see raw numbers.


----------



## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Johnny Dancing said:


> Is it possible for AI to mess with DialIdol by throwing in targeted busy signals? I think that is how DialIdol picks the winners.


One more thing is with DI it can not account for the text messages so that throws of numbers some but not sure how much as I think only FOX and AI know those stats.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Einselen said:


> Really? Are we in a cave, I think there is an echo
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6306554#post6306554


I can't agree with you or what?


----------



## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

MickeS said:


> I can't agree with you or what?


You can, but you must reference me, always! No I just find it funny that it was a smeek within 1 post and I believe about 3 min.


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## cdM1A5YR (May 18, 2008)

In reality, when all is said and done, it's completely meaningless who wins. Both are amazing and will be in the top 10 of I-Tunes within minutes of releasing an album. It will still be fun seeing who wins but the title "American Idol Winner" will have no bearing on their future success, they will both be huge superstars.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Johnny Dancing said:


> Has anyone followed DialIdol this year? I never heard of them until this thread. Have they predicted who goes home each week accurately? What about the 'shocker' (the guy for Australia/Buckhead Atlanta)? If they got that one right, I would have a lot of faith in them.


The only one they didn't predict correctly (did not have her in bottom range) was Kristy Lee Cook: http://www.dialidol.com/asp/predictions/Predictions.asp?week=7&sort=TD&type=score&season=7

Not sure what happened there - they were correct on every other week, including the past few weeks with 5,4 and 3 contestants left.


----------



## ToddNeedsTiVo (Sep 2, 2003)

I can't remember...do they disclose vote percentages for the final?


----------



## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

ToddNeedsTiVo said:


> I can't remember...do they disclose vote percentages for the final?


I do remember sometimes they will say how close it was and maybe give a general number of how many votes came in or the winner got, etc. Just all depends on the results.


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## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

Einselen said:


> What is interesting this year is they have predicted a clear winner where prior seasons it was "too close to call".


Actually, they made clear predictions for the last two years. They correctly predicted Jordan Sparks and Taylor Hicks.

The only race that they claimed was too close to call was Undewood/Bice, which probably was, in fact, too close to call.

Doesn't mean that they are right tonight, but they have something like a 91% accuracy rate over the last 4 years.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Einselen said:


> One more thing is with DI it can not account for the text messages so that throws of numbers some but not sure how much as I think only FOX and AI know those stats.


Found some interesting numbers crunching regarding texting.

_"Assuming the 100 million votes received report is accurate, for the sake of argument lets surmise that 50% of those were text. Which is preposterous because of the fact that only AT&T users can text for free-- but for the sake of argument, we'll say so. 
Out of the fifty million phone votes, if Cook had a 25% margin as per Dial Idol then he has a lead of 12.5 million votes. That means Archie would have to make up the difference in texts. Numerically that means Archie would have had to beat Cook by 31.5 million to 19.5 million in texts just to break even, or in other words garner 63% of the text vote to Cooks 37% in order to win the big one."_

I know this is just fanwanking to pass the time but it's interesting.
They can crown Archie even if he has the lowest votes by saying texting made all the difference and no one will ever know if it is true or not.


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## cdM1A5YR (May 18, 2008)

Cearbhaill said:


> Found some interesting numbers crunching regarding texting.
> 
> _"Assuming the 100 million votes received report is accurate, for the sake of argument lets surmise that 50% of those were text. Which is preposterous because of the fact that only AT&T users can text for free-- but for the sake of argument, we'll say so.
> Out of the fifty million phone votes, if Cook had a 25% margin as per Dial Idol then he has a lead of 12.5 million votes. That means Archie would have to make up the difference in texts. Numerically that means Archie would have had to beat Cook by 31.5 million to 19.5 million in texts just to break even, or in other words garner 63% of the text vote to Cooks 37% in order to win the big one."_
> ...


I just don't buy the dialidol stuff at all. Over the past few seasons, they have been wrong various times so it shows me that their methods are flawed.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

That Don Guy said:


> "Top ten"? I'm pretty sure the application form every contestant has to sign mentions that everyone who makes it past a certain point much earlier than that (it may even be as early as the last audition before going to Hollywood, which would allow the producers first access to, for example, William Hung) has to accept a recording contract if the AI producers offer one.


Here's what the Season 7 release says:

(a) Anyone who appears on the show at any level may be required to sign "an agreement for the management of (their) career in the entertainment industry (including, but not limited to, (their) acting, singing, songwriting, or other services)" at any time up to three months after when the finale is broadcast (in this case, any time before August 21);

(b) Anyone who gets to "the semi-final rounds" (I assume that means "Hollywood"; the term is not defined in the release) has to be able to prove they are not currently under any contracts that would prevent them from "entering into any contracts required by Producer, including an exclusive management contract, recording contract and merchandising contract," nor can they enter such a contract without the Producer's permission before August 21, 2008, and "(the) Producer may require me to sign further documents as a condition of my participation in the Program";

(c) Anyone under the age of 18 has to have a parent/guardian sign a form stating that they agree not only to "not instruct, authorize or permit said Minor to disaffirm the foregoing Release, and that (the adult) will indemnify and hold harmless the Released Parties (as defined in the Release) against all claims, liabilities and expenses with respect to said Release," but to be subject to the release themselves. (Translation: David A's father is going to have a tough time suing anybody...that is, assuming it was his father who signed the guardian's release in the first place.)

-- Don


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## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

cdM1A5YR said:


> I just don't buy the dialidol stuff at all. Over the past few seasons, they have been wrong various times so it shows me that their methods are flawed.


Their methods are not perfect. They have been wrong.

But they are right more often than not.

Now, because I think that DialIdol predictions should still be treated as spoilers, I am going to hide this next bit:



Spoiler



Those of us that have followed the DI predictions all season have no trouble believing that Cook has a larger fan base than Archuleta. DI has had Cook higher than Archuleta for the past six weeks running. As far as I was concerned, the only reason that I thought that Archuleta was going to win, was that I thought that he would get a larger percentage of the Mercado block. I thought that her fans were more likely to go with the 'pop guy' than the 'rock guy'. Turns out that her fans may have gone with the grown-up over the kid. Personally, I'd put $100 on DI being correct tonight. Not $1000, or $1,000,000..I'm not crazy. 



Regarding last night, Archuleta had a better night. But Cook had a better season, and Idol voters have shown that they rarely seem to vote just based on the one night. If I had to vote based on last night alone, yeah...I'd vote for Baby David.

But my memory tells me that I like DC better overall, so he got my one, pathetic vote.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Jebberwocky! said:


> I think I was wrong.


this is why we need larger signature space on this board 

------------------

for me, Arch is probably a great singer 'for his age'. But i guess i expect more from the older david. So if you base your decision on who is better 'for their age', i could see why arch would be better than cook.

So does arch being 'fantastic' for his age mean he should win? dunno


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## ToddNeedsTiVo (Sep 2, 2003)

Almost showtime! Somehow they're cramming the 10-minute finale into 120 minutes, so I think I'll let the TiVo get waaay ahead on this one before I sit down to watch.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I have always wondered if there isn't some clause that would require shows such as AI to release the actual numbers to avoid something similar to the Quiz Show incident. If there isn't there should definitely be something that requires them to be turned over whenever a show is presented as a competition with voting.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Johnny Dancing said:


> Has anyone followed DialIdol this year? I never heard of them until this thread. Have they predicted who goes home each week accurately?


They've made a couple of dozen predictions this year with respect to who is in the bottom three (bottom one for the last couple of weeks), and got all but one correct, when Kristy Lee was eliminated.


Johnny Dancing said:


> What about the 'shocker' (the guy for Australia/Buckhead Atlanta)? If they got that one right, I would have a lot of faith in them.


Michael Johns was indeed predicted as being in the bottom three the week he was eliminated.



Johnny Dancing said:


> Is it possible for AI to mess with DialIdol by throwing in targeted busy signals?


Most likely not.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> I have always wondered if there isn't some clause that would require shows such as AI to release the actual numbers to avoid something similar to the Quiz Show incident.


There would be no reason to require public disclosure. Rather, the information would simply need to be made available to regulators, and discoverable by court proceedings.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Lori said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Those of us that have followed the DI predictions all season have no trouble believing that Cook has a larger fan base than Archuleta. DI has had Cook higher than Archuleta for the past six weeks running. As far as I was concerned, the only reason that I thought that Archuleta was going to win, was that I thought that he would get a larger percentage of the Mercado block.


Yes, but


Spoiler



Archuleta would have had to have gained over 80% of Mercado's votes to overcome Cook's advantage, last week.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Simon reversed his "knockout" opinion on the red carpet citing sound issues 
He called it even with Cook perhaps having the edge.


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## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

Cearbhaill said:


> Simon reversed his "knockout" opinion on the red carpet citing sound issues
> He called it even with Cook perhaps having the edge.


Now that's fascinating.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Well, American Idol actually got it _right_! Very cool.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

If you want to discuss the results, you might want to do so in the Results Show thread. Just FYI.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> I have always wondered if there isn't some clause that would require shows such as AI to release the actual numbers to avoid something similar to the Quiz Show incident. If there isn't there should definitely be something that requires them to be turned over whenever a show is presented as a competition with voting.


The Academy Awards has gotten away with not revealing the vote totals for over 50 years. and that's just as much a "competition with voting" as AI is (the main difference being the pool of people who are eligible to vote). Besides, Standards & Practices keeps an eye on AI just as it does on Fox's game shows.

(Also, at least on AI, the person who gets the most votes wins - unlike, for example, Fox's Teen Choice Awards, where the producers choose each winner from those in the top four in the voting, using criteria that includes "who is likely to show up".)

-- Don


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## thudtrain (Sep 29, 2005)

cdM1A5YR said:


> I will happily bring your post up tonight and gloat when you are proven wrong. Just don't make excuses or say it's fixed when it happens, because it's not. Looking forward to my post tonight!!!


It's been an hour, still looking forward


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## cdM1A5YR (May 18, 2008)

thudtrain said:


> It's been an hour, still looking forward


Oh man, was I WRONG or what! Wow, you got me, and I admit it!

Congrats to both of them, they will both be superstars.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

As it is, they did effectively announce how many votes each contestant got. 

Oh yeah... now I need to go through the threads and find all the "David A will absolutely win no question" messages and post a "nuh-uh -- told jya so" reply.


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