# I hate the R15. How do I get a TIVO?



## thinknoxville (Aug 10, 2006)

I upgraded to the R15 and hate it. I have three of the Samsung S4040R and two R15s. When I got the R15s, I thought I would be getting TIVOs that would hold more hours. I was wrong. First of all, I hate the format on the R15s. I have also had numerous problems (including losing my favorite programs that I now have to wait to come out on DVD). I have asked Directv to replace them with TIVOs, but they only send me more R15s. I have replaced the R15s with two sets of new R15s, only to have the same problems. They told me that they do not have any more TIVO receivers. Now, they tell me my only option is to look on Ebay for TIVO receivers. Does anyone have any suggestions on which Directv TIVO brand/model I should look for and where to find two of them fairly cheap? Any suggestions and info would be greatly appreciated.


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## jjn (Jan 10, 2006)

Buy on from me.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

If you have an R15-300

I have multiple DTivos sitting in a closet that I will swap..
(I have a DSR704 and an HDVR2 both with the original drives)

I also have some hard drives for them, for a little extra.
Send me a PM.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

ptvuprade.com has refurbed phillips units for $69 bucks.


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## Rkkeller (May 13, 2004)

ebonovic said:


> If you have an R15-300


I am trying to get a 300 model too. Seems all I get are the 500 series.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Rkkeller said:


> I am trying to get a 300 model too. Seems all I get are the 500 series.


I know...


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

I know this isn't the right place, but what's the difference between 300 and 500?


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## RangersRBack (Jan 9, 2006)

Billy66 said:


> I know this isn't the right place, but what's the difference between 300 and 500?


200


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

R15-300 built by Philips and is physically smaller then....
R15-500 built by Humax

The reason why I am looking for a R15-300... is when I am helping out people on www.dbstalk.com, I want to try their "Scenerios" on the same type of box.

Even though they are functionally the same... they are different.

The ony differences are that it is physicall smaller (the R15-300), and they run a different build of the software.... there is no funcionality difference off the boxes.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Thanks Earl!


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## HAPPYAPPY (Aug 12, 2006)

I Also Got Fooled Bt Directv And Received A R15 And Was Equally Disappointed, Returned Defective One And Then Was Sent A Refurbished Unit That The Cooling Fan Didn't Even Work. I Tried To Stay Calm, Not Easy For Me, And Called Again And Asked For A Supervisor, They Then Wanted To Know About What And I Said The Lawsuit I Was Fileing. I Got The Super And Explained That The R15 Didn't Work At All/as Well As My Old Hughes Unit And That It Wasn't The Promised Upgrade I Had Contracted For And That If I Didn;t Get An R10 I Would Sue Them For Breach Of Contract, Which It Is, And They Could Send A Lawyer To My County To Fight The Charges If They So Desired. They Overnighted Me A R10, Which I Was Told They Didn't Have Several Times But Suddenly There It Was. God Luck.


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## T1V0 (Jun 14, 2006)

HAPPYAPPY said:


> I Also Got Fooled Bt Directv And Received A R15 And Was Equally Disappointed, Returned Defective One And Then Was Sent A Refurbished Unit That The Cooling Fan Didn't Even Work. I Tried To Stay Calm, Not Easy For Me, And Called Again And Asked For A Supervisor, They Then Wanted To Know About What And I Said The Lawsuit I Was Fileing. I Got The Super And Explained That The R15 Didn't Work At All/as Well As My Old Hughes Unit And That It Wasn't The Promised Upgrade I Had Contracted For And That If I Didn;t Get An R10 I Would Sue Them For Breach Of Contract, Which It Is, And They Could Send A Lawyer To My County To Fight The Charges If They So Desired. They Overnighted Me A R10, Which I Was Told They Didn't Have Several Times But Suddenly There It Was. God Luck.


Whats Up With All The Rants About R15s Lately???
My Eyes Hurt Now


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## Dood (Feb 21, 2003)

T1V0 said:


> Whats Up With All The Rants About R15s Lately???
> My Eyes Hurt Now


What's up?

There are crap and DirecTv rushed them to market without a plan on how to fix the software isses.

The R15 is plain and simple a piece of junk. other than that, they make great door stops,


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## DTVPro (Jun 24, 2005)

the R15's greatly improved from what it was

I just had one installed (brand new) thursday, it immediately downloaded the latest patch, and no problems at all

there are nuances I don't like, but overall it's a good machine for recording stuff I don't deem as critcal.


I think after recieving upgrades it helps to reformat the R15 drive if you're having issues (down arrow + record for 10 seconds after almost there disappears)


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## warpath (Oct 13, 2002)

About 2 months ago, I "upgraded" to an R-15. I was told by DirecTV that it was the only DVR box that would work in my new location since the local channels came in on the 3rd sat. Previously, I had 3 Series I DirecTivos (Two Philips 6000 and one Sony Sat-60). Anyway, I went ahead and leased one R-15 so I could watch locals. 

Since that time, I have had nothing but problems. Initially, I was just experiencing the well-known issues, such as missing episodes of shows despite the season pass or recording EVERY episode, despite telling it to only record new eps. I tried to make due with those issues. 

However, for the last week, my R-15 has become almost unusable. The machine locks up or refuses to switch channels approximately one time a day and requires a reset. If I leave for work, there is a good chance it will have locked up sometime in the day and miss all of my programs. I assume that hard drive is failing. 

Knowing that if I call DirecTV to complain, all they will do it ask that I send the unit in to them and they will replace it with a refurbished one, I decided to just buy a Series II DirecTivo off ebay. As we speak, I am waiting for my Hughes DVR40 to arrive so that I can rejoin the sweet embrace of the Tivo world. 

Now my only complaint is how slow the US mail can be...


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## DTVPro (Jun 24, 2005)

warpath said:


> About 2 months ago, I "upgraded" to an R-15. I was told by DirecTV that it was the only DVR box that would work in my new location since the local channels came in on the 3rd sat. Previously, I had 3 Series I DirecTivos (Two Philips 6000 and one Sony Sat-60). Anyway, I went ahead and leased one R-15 so I could watch locals.
> 
> Since that time, I have had nothing but problems. Initially, I was just experiencing the well-known issues, such as missing episodes of shows despite the season pass or recording EVERY episode, despite telling it to only record new eps. I tried to make due with those issues.
> 
> ...


warpath: try a reformat of the drive as I described above

should fix the issues


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## Cap'n Jack (Jan 11, 2006)

DTVPro said:


> the R15's greatly improved from what it was
> 
> I just had one installed (brand new) thursday, it immediately downloaded the latest patch, and no problems at all
> 
> ...


The obvious question here is that if you do that will you lose all your recorded shows?


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## trnsfrguy (Apr 28, 2005)

Cap'n Jack said:


> The obvious question here is that if you do that will you lose all your recorded shows?


I tried reformatting the drive and I didn't lose any of the shows that I had on the drive.
But, after checking my "to do list ", I see a bunch of scheduled recordings that I never setup.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

DTVPro said:


> I think after recieving upgrades it helps to reformat the R15 drive if you're having issues


The R15 is starting to sound like a Microsoft product.


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## Rowsdower (Dec 11, 2002)

macquariumguy said:


> The R15 is starting to sound like a Microsoft product.


Their UltimateTV DVR actually was good.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

macquariumguy said:


> The R15 is starting to sound like a Microsoft product.


As Rowdowser said, Microsoft DVR's have been good. What are you referring to?


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## DTVPro (Jun 24, 2005)

if you do the Hard drive reformat

it will delete everything


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

Rowsdower said:


> Their UltimateTV DVR actually was good.


Excuse me but it still works, so it "is" good don't bury it yet......


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

I would not own any DVR which I could not trust to reliably record my favorite programming 99.999999999999% of the time. If I miss one episode of my favorite programming, I go ballistic. If that happens, we'll all need a new planet very soon.


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## lambo881 (May 23, 2004)

Wow, my DVR40 went bad the other day  and I almost bought a R15, glad I read the thread. So after reading many threads and determining it was a harddrive problem, I replaced the harddrive instead. Now I have a 140 hour box, no two year extension on my contract and still have Tivo 

Sounds like if you want a DirecTivo, best way to go is either a refurb or a used box. The HR10-250 is nice, but pricey though and you still have the two year commitment.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Rowsdower said:


> Their UltimateTV DVR actually was good.


I was talking about Windows and a decade or so of people reformatting and reinstalling every time they upgraded software or had problems.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

macquariumguy can't resist taking a shot at Windows. Even if he has to stretch to do it. I respect and appreciate your tenacity!


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Billy66 said:


> macquariumguy can't resist taking a shot at Windows. Even if he has to stretch to do it. I respect and appreciate your tenacity!


[elvis]Thankyouverymuch![/elvis]


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

macquariumguy said:


> I was talking about Windows and a decade or so of people reformatting and reinstalling every time they upgraded software or had problems.


What does Windows have to do with a TiVo?? <Scratching Head>

Anyway, I don't know what you're doing to your computers, but I've got 5-6 year old computers that have never been reinstalled let alone after a software update.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Adam1115 said:


> What does Windows have to do with a TiVo?? <Scratching Head>
> 
> Anyway, I don't know what you're doing to your computers, but I've got 5-6 year old computers that have never been reinstalled let alone after a software update.


Uh, someone said the way to 'fix' an R15 after a software update was to reformat the drive. Regardless of your luck with Windows, it's beyond dispute that bazillions of Windows machines have had to be reformatted over the last 10 years or so to make them work correctly. Even though I've never owned a Windows computer, I've seen it/heard it too many times to count.

Hence my comment.

As for the <Scratching Head> thing, there are special shampoos that will help.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

Been using an R15 for a month now while waiting to get my TIVO out of storage. I hate it. The thing is pure junk. OK. It works and is 1000x better than no DVR but nothing like Tivo. I miss suggestions. I miss a useable FF option. Everytime I FF (especially towards the end of a show) it screws up or I miss time everything. I can use the 30 second skips but that is so slow. Overall the delays with button presses sucks and the season pass option is annoying recording so many repeats. So many minor gripes. What scares me is that I would like to stay with DirecTV but once they start pushing Mpeg4 channels and ruin my HD-TiVO I iwll be in trouble. Hopefully that doesn't happen anytime soon.


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## Rkkeller (May 13, 2004)

HAPPYAPPY said:


> IThe Cooling Fan Didn't Even Work.


This is a feature not a defect. The fan only comes on at a set temperature point so its quieter. My fan in the R-15 doesnt run 75% of the time.


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## Rkkeller (May 13, 2004)

DTVPro said:


> the R15's greatly improved from what it was


I agree. :up: I have been very vocal  about all the problems with the R-15 in the past but the latest update really fixed the overall stability and they tweaked the SL logic. Mine went from almost unusable with lockups weekly and problems in certain areas to now I haven't even been able to force a lockup and I have tried. 

The SL logic still needs some tweaking  but I haven't noticed it missing any recordings at all, usually the opposite where it records everything. I would much rather it record too much than too little. Its easy to - - delete so I don't see why people get all upset when its so simple.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Rkkeller said:


> Its easy to - - delete


Then with the Bulk: Mark and Delete... you can knock most of the MyVod in just a few moments...


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## DTVPro (Jun 24, 2005)

The SL logic has some things to be desired and much work needed still, that's correct. 

I had to setup manual recordings for one of my favorite playboytv shows because the name of the program usually varied slightly and it didn't recognize it as a series...but the tivo did. 


The Manual recording options are actually very nicely done, and allow some decent customization with it. 


A person who's never had tivo wont' know the difference and will be happy with an R15 when it actually works. The problems and complaints have been that they haven't been working, not about the interface.


A lot of standard customers prefer the R15, as the menu's are familiar (if they've had the D* series standard ird's) and they dont' have to relearn new menu's and everything. 

If DTV can cut down on the speed of the box when changing channels the R15 would be poised to make a nice run as a decent DVR


Right now, I think the R15's better than any Cable DVR I've ever operated


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

DTVPro said:


> Right now, I think the R15's better than any Cable DVR I've ever operated


It's also better than a paper cut. Or a grass stain on white tennis shorts.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

I would say that having something that works reliably is FAR SUPERIOR to having something that has a slick interface, but lacks in reliability - anyday. (And, you can take that to the bank. )


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

macquariumguy said:


> Uh, someone said the way to 'fix' an R15 after a software update was to reformat the drive. Regardless of your luck with Windows, it's beyond dispute that bazillions of Windows machines have had to be reformatted over the last 10 years or so to make them work correctly. Even though I've never owned a Windows computer, I've seen it/heard it too many times to count.


So your comparing what you've heard about software updates from 10 year old computers to the R15 because you want to take a jab at Microsoft since you don't own one?

Very mature!

I support hundreds of windows 2000, hundreds of Windows XP, and dozens of Windows NT computers that have never been reformatted. Guess several hundred lucky people...


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

Adam -

Exactly - the only Windows users who need to habitually reformat and reinstall Windows are either those still on the Windows 9x/Me platform, or those who install new software willy-nilly from every imaginable web site from an account with administrator access to the machine or domain. Unfortunately those are the same users who also run without adequate virus protection, spyware removal, spam containment software and an adequate firewall. I say you get what you deserve and what you're willing to pay for.

I would never accept a DVR that I had to periodically reformat the drive on and reset all of my programming to get it to work right. But - that's just me.


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## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

DTVPro said:


> the R15's greatly improved from what it was
> 
> I just had one installed (brand new) thursday, it immediately downloaded the latest patch, and no problems at all
> 
> ...


Wow, so the R-15's are in Beta stage now. Good to know. Man, I really hope the R-20's not as much of a lemon that the R-15 was.


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

kbohip said:


> Wow, so the R-15's are in Beta stage now.


That overestimates their development process. It's not nearly that orderly. There are elements of design, beta, and release (and any other phase you can think of) going on right now. They routinely change entire functions without so much of a hint to the end user what's going on. I sometimes wonder what that would be like for someone who doesn't follow dbstalk.


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## Rkkeller (May 13, 2004)

I think constructive complaints :up: from people that actually have and used something are welcome and needed. I have been very vocal that way myself from time to time.  

However, when it comes to people that have never used something and just parrot old information or just want to get a chuckle from their comments I don't see the point. No one is forcing anyone to use anything. If you don't like something don't use it. Very simple.


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## Rkkeller (May 13, 2004)

BillyT2002 said:


> I would say that having something that works reliably


So from your own personal hands on experience  with using the R-15 what specific reliability issues have you personally experienced yourself  ?


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Rkkeller said:


> So from your own personal hands on experience  with using the R-15 what specific reliability issues have you personally experienced yourself  ?


An R15 slept with my sister!!!!!!!!


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

Rkkeller said:


> So from your own personal hands on experience  with using the R-15 what specific reliability issues have you personally experienced yourself  ?


Rkkeller - I've never owned an R15, nor do I plan to unless it becomes PERFECTLY RELIABLE.

I have a brother in law that had one for a few months which I've used. My neighbor also had one for about a month. This was all quite a few months back and in both cases they replaced the R15 with a DirecTIVO unit (in one case my old HDVR2 and in the other case an HR10-250).

And, both of them were having touble with the R15 missing recordings, which is why they ultimately got rid of the R15 in favor of a TIVO unit.

Now some say that the new software doesn't miss as many recording, but so far I haven't seen anyone saying that it doesn't miss ANY recordings.

This is why I'm keeping my eyes on these forums and stressing the reliability issue. I'm glad that the R15 has been patched to miss less recordings, but before I'll ever own one personally, I need to know that it will not miss ANY recordings. That's my primary pre-requisite for a DVR. Of course the obvious exception is if the President or the ball game pre-empts my scheduled recordings. There's nothing that any DVR can do about that.

I also don't like what I've heard about limits being set on the total number of items you can have in your VOD list, the fact that the searching mechanism will not allow you to enter symbolic characters, the fact that in many cases the "first run" flag is ignored by the R15 and lastly that many have stated that they need to periodically reformat the hard drive on the R15 in order to get it to work properly.

So, in my estimation so far the NDS technology is not up to my standards. It would be closer if enough would confirm that it doesn't miss ANY recordings and if they could eliminate the need to reformat the hard drive periodically in order to keep it working.


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## gglockner (Sep 5, 2002)

NatasNJ said:


> What scares me is that I would like to stay with DirecTV but once they start pushing Mpeg4 channels and ruin my HD-TiVO I iwll be in trouble. Hopefully that doesn't happen anytime soon.


Amen to that. When the HD MPEG2 national channels are turned off (Discovery HD, HDNet, etc.), I will jump to cable unless the HR20 is really, really stable. Based on the R15, I have huge doubts about that.


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## rick31621 (Jun 20, 2004)

Rkkeller said:


> So from your own personal hands on experience  with using the R-15 what specific reliability issues have you personally experienced yourself  ?


It makes a great door stop!


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

rick31621 said:


> It makes a great door stop!


It's also a great way to get a free 160 GB hard drive.


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## DTVPro (Jun 24, 2005)

just had a major update on 8/9 

and another is coming the week of the 23rd


it's another big update, fixes a lot of lesser known issues


that's the 2nd update this month

at least you can tell they are working hard on it


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

DTVPro said:


> just had a major update on 8/9
> 
> and another is coming the week of the 23rd
> 
> ...


Just to clarrify...
The 10C8 release completed on 8/9
The 10D3 release started this past weekend...

With the next one already in development....


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

DTVPro said:


> just had a major update on 8/9
> 
> and another is coming the week of the 23rd
> 
> ...


That's nice, but there is a big difference between working hard and working smart in the software development world. I'm a software development manager (and software developer) for a medical software producer in Skowhegan, Maine. In the past few years, we have changed our development model (to Agile and test-driven models which I have described ad nauseum in other threads on this forum) and our productivity and reliabilty both went way up. We debug less now than ever because we introduce less bugs at software conception. That is working smart and it is paying off. DirecTV/NDS may very well be working smart, but my suspicions just based on the fact that they are not in the software industry to profit from their software alone and the fact that the R15 has been out for a while already and I would expect if they were working smart, the R15 would be a very reliable unit by now.

As soon as the majority of R15 or upcoming NDS HD-DVR users on this forum and others are convinced that the DVR does not miss ANY scheduled programming, does not need to have the drive reformatted periodically, does not record repeated episodes of scheduled programming when the "first run" flag is set on a season link, no longer has limitations on how many entries can be in the VOD list, and lastly allows me to use symbolic characters in addition to alphanumeric characters in searching for upcoming programming, I'll consider buying one. Until then, I won't.


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

BillyT2002 said:


> allows me to use symbolic characters in addition to alphanumeric characters in searching for upcoming programming


The solution isn't to allow those characters to be entered. The solution is to eliminate those characters for the purposes of indexing. See also: WWTD.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

That would be an acceptable solution as well, but (assuming the guide data remains a constant) I'm not sure how it is any better than allowing symbolic characters to be entered in the search as well; except maybe that not allowing symbolic characters to be entered does provide for a bit of a simpler user interface. I think I could go either way on this one.


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

BillyT2002 said:


> That would be an acceptable solution as well, but (assuming the guide data remains a constant) I'm not sure how it is any better than allowing symbolic characters to be entered in the search as well; except maybe that not allowing symbolic characters to be entered does provide for a bit of a simpler user interface. I think I could go either way on this one.


Because then the user doesn't have to know (or care) about the symbols. Should I care as a user that one show is "Reno 911!" but another show is "Rescue 9-1-1"? Besides, some characters have special meaning. For example, a wishlist for "M*A*S*H" might pull in a few more hits than expected.

If anything, this part of the UI should be simplified further. For example, there's no need for the digits since they can be entered on the remote. A TV isn't a computer monitor (something DirecTV hasn't quite figured out).


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

I have not been paying any attention to the R15, so forgive me if this has been covered in the past.

I spoke with my parents last night, who had to replace their DirecTivo due to a lightning strike and got an R15.

My mother says it won't record anything at all. It won't pause TV, it won't rewind, it won't fast forward and you can't schedule recordings.

She says it used to do all of these things, but some time ago (2 months? 6 weeks? she wasn't sure) it started losing these functionalities until now she can only watch TV live. They called DirecTV and were told "This is happening to all of them. We could send you a new one but it would act exactly the same".

Given what you guys are saying in this thread, you aren't seeing this behavior, but other, less annoying problems (less annoying than "won't record at all" anyway). My father says he's called several times, and he's ready to cancel DirecTV over it. He wants his TiVo back.

Can somebody give me a brief rundown on what's going on with the R15? 

I've got a SAT-T60 with a dead hard drive that I might refurb for them, but is there any source of a new DirecTivo at all any more?


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

Ereth said:


> Can somebody give me a brief rundown on what's going on with the R15?


Some people seem to have golden boxes with no problems. Some people seem to have boxes that would do better as a doorstop. Most are inbetween (occasional missed recordings, lockups, slowness, unexplained caller ID notifications, etc.) Even if it worked as designed, it's still limited to 50 "Series Links" (Season Passes) and 100 To Do list entries (which means 1. cancelling a recording to schedule a new one most of the time for me, and 2. the to do list is not a guarantee like it is on a TiVo).

There have been about a half-dozen software updates since release, and the whole spectrum of experience noted above seems to still be the case, no matter what software version.

My box that I got for free just to have firsthand experience is a bit on the golden side of halfway, but it hasn't been two weeks yet.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

ping said:


> Because then the user doesn't have to know (or care) about the symbols. Should I care as a user that one show is "Reno 911!" but another show is "Rescue 9-1-1"? Besides, some characters have special meaning. For example, a wishlist for "M*A*S*H" might pull in a few more hits than expected.
> 
> If anything, this part of the UI should be simplified further. For example, there's no need for the digits since they can be entered on the remote. A TV isn't a computer monitor (something DirecTV hasn't quite figured out).


Well, it really is soley due to the O/S whether specific characters have special meanings or not. For instance, unless NDS has specifically coded '*' and '?' as wildcard operators, such as you see in many modern day computer operating systems, then they will have no alternate meanings within the XTV O/S. However, you do bring up a very good point that the user should not have to know or enter all of the special symbolic characters in a given program name in order to search for a specific program. And eliminating the characters from consideration within the user interface is a good idea from a user interface point of view. (I'm a UI minimalist too). However, the operating system could be written to accept the symbolic characters, but not really make them a part of the search by setting up the indexing within the database to not include them as you suggested earlier. I also feel that allowing symbolic characters to be entered (such as TIVO does) would make searching feel more consistent soley because the guide data already lists the symbolic characters as part of the name for each program and it always feels more consistent from a users point of view when what you are searching for exactly matches what you are entering.

Now, it might be nice if we could get the providers of guide data to exclude symbolic characters from the listings in the first place. However doing so has the potential of breaking many existing user interfaces in DVRs already deployed.


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

BillyT2002 said:


> I also feel that allowing symbolic characters to be entered (such as TIVO does) would make searching feel more consistent soley because the guide data already lists the symbolic characters as part of the name for each program and it always feels more consistent from a users point of view when what you are searching for exactly matches what you are entering.


Are you using the same TiVo I've been using all these years? The only special characters I know how to enter on a TiVo are asterisk (wildcard) and quote (which you use to search for a phrase). Hyphens, slashes, and periods are replaced with space; dollar sign is replaced with "S"; and everything else is ignored.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

What I was pointing out is basically that just because one operating system such as TIVO, *NIX or PC/Windows implement '*' and '?' wildcard operators does not mean that the NDS XTV operating system does as well. I'm saying it is up to the operating system provider whether special characters are implemented or not. There are a lot of far less sophistacted users than you and me who do not use the wildcard operators to search for programming and the user interface should cater to the less sophisted user while at the same time should allow special functionality for the more sophisted user. My argument regarding allowing symbolic characters to be entered while searching for programming is soley for the benefit of the less sophisticated user. To Joe/Jane Sixpack, it would seem more intuitive to allow them to search for programming by entering exactly what they would see in the program guide. (From a UI point of view, while supporting wildcard operators, TIVO provides for what I'm describing by also allowing the user to enter symbolic characters within the search to match the programs listed. How they do it internally is not a concern to the average user and it makes searching on a TIVO DVR feel more consistent with a user's expectations. It also works out for the TIVO because you don't often see the '*' or '?' wildcard characters listed within program listings within the program guide, anyway. )

Again, the ideal solution would be to not have the symbolic characters in the programming guide in the first place, but I think it is too late to ever see that change. So, I'm just advocating for the end-user here.

When I said TIVO allows for special character - it does from an end-user perspective I can enter special character found in most program guide listings when I'm searching for programming.


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

No, you said "such as TIVO does".

I've reached diminishing returns here.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

I'm sorry you feel that way. I went on to further explain my point and that is all.


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## Rkkeller (May 13, 2004)

Ereth said:


> Can somebody give me a brief rundown on what's going on with the R15?


What you have stated about problems sounds more like DirecTV turned off the DVR service than anything to do with the R-15.

You have to remember that this is a TiVo forum and like you can see in the posts before this, for some people until the R-15 has feature for feature of a DirecTiVo or their favorite TiVo features, which it never will as some are TiVos exclusive property and also there would be no sense to stop offering the DirecTiVos only to clone it exactly, your going to hear complaining.

I have used the R-15 for 8-9 months, I have loved it, hated it and even stopped using it when it had so many problems. I feel more impartial about the R-15 than just about anyone as I have used it (I own 2), when it had all the major problems I admitted the problems, screamed and ranted all over  and stopped using it. After each update I start using it again to see how its working. I have only restarted my R-15 usage after the last update a couple weeks ago and the R-15 as it is now after the last update works well unlike some would have people believe. The main problem is that it records everything for a SL. This, to me at least, is much better than recording to little and missing a show. Just delete the dupes for now.

Is it 100% flawless, not yet, but still very usable and reliable.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Rkkeller said:


> What you have stated about problems sounds more like DirecTV turned off the DVR service than anything to do with the R-15.


I'm much more concerned about the response from the Customer Service drone that it's happening to ALL of them and there's nothing DirecTV can do to fix it until a new software update comes out.

If they had turned off DVR service (can they even do that?) then they could turn it back on. But they can't. And my folks have been complaining about non-functionality to DirecTV for months.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

When you (Rkkeller), Earl and others can tell me that it does not miss ANY scheduled recordings (that is when very reliable will translate to reliable for me), I will thank you for the information and go out and get one promptly. I can not miss ANY scheduled recordings (especially those recordings I set up from either a broadcast network or from the SciFi network). Until then, I'll just stick with my existing HR10-250.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Ereth said:


> I'm much more concerned about the response from the Customer Service drone that it's happening to ALL of them and there's nothing DirecTV can do to fix it until a new software update comes out.
> 
> If they had turned off DVR service (can they even do that?) then they could turn it back on. But they can't. And my folks have been complaining about non-functionality to DirecTV for months.


I had the same problem. Have them do a reset either by the red button or by unplugging the unit. This fixed it for me. And yes they can turn Dvr service off. It happened by accident one time when they activated a new receiver for me. Somehow they turned off DVR on my account so even my Tivos wouldnt record.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

How on earth can you stop a TiVo from recording?

It doesn't have any other mode of functioning. I can see stopping sending Guide Updates.

And my dad say they have reset it multiple times, and it's never made a difference.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Ereth said:


> How on earth can you stop a TiVo from recording?
> 
> It doesn't have any other mode of functioning. I can see stopping sending Guide Updates.
> 
> And my dad say they have reset it multiple times, and it's never made a difference.


They disable the DVR service on your account. It would let me watch live tv, but if I went to record a show it said DVR service is not active contact Directv.

If he has tell him to call back again. Like I said mine did the same thing. I could do everything but actually use the DVR. I called in and they had me reset it and it worked. They may have resent the signal also.


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

This guy had to do essentially a "clear and delete everything":
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=61689

Before doing anything that drastic, I'd play a bit of CSR roulette to get someone with a clue. They should be able to resend a DVR service authorization while still on the phone.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

innocentfreak said:


> They disable the DVR service on your account. It would let me watch live tv, but if I went to record a show it said DVR service is not active contact Directv.
> 
> If he has tell him to call back again. Like I said mine did the same thing. I could do everything but actually use the DVR. I called in and they had me reset it and it worked. They may have resent the signal also.


Actually they don't get an error message. My mom says that nothing happens when they push the button. Doesn't beep or anything.

But I'm not there so maybe she's overstating. I'll ask her to check.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Question: I was just at Weaknees and it looks like the R10 IS a Tivo? Is that still available from DirecTV?

I didn't realize there was an R10. The last new DirecTivo I bought was an HDVR2 (and, of course, the HR10-250).


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

The HDVR2 is 1.5 generations old 

There was the RID based untis between the HDVR2 and the R10

The DTivo powered units are really available from DirecTV anymore.
You would need to go via Ebay, or 3rd party vendors (or drop me an email... I have an R10 available)


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Ereth said:


> Actually they don't get an error message. My mom says that nothing happens when they push the button. Doesn't beep or anything.
> 
> But I'm not there so maybe she's overstating. I'll ask her to check.


I called DirecTV on her behalf. The DVR service IS active on her account and I had the guy resend the signal to reactivate it and she still can't even pause live tv. No rewind, no fast forward. We did all this on the phone.

Her R15 is not a DVR, though DirecTV thinks it is and can't think of a reason it won't work.

I asked, and they still ship R10s but they "have no way to know which one you will get". It's a crap shoot.


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## jlmc (Aug 17, 2006)

we just got an r15 a couple of weeks ago and it is already messed up. it started locking up when i wanted to go forward or go backward on the recorded shows. now i can hear the live shows, but i can't see the live show picture. it is not my tv because i can get the guide and the list on my tv or the info guide that is at the top of a show being seen. i have this unit. the salesman said the r15 is tivo, it just isn't called that. then i saw on the internet where the direct tv owner use to own 4% of tivo stock and sold it all. it was someone's speculation that the owner is trying to force tivo to sell out to direct tv. but the r15 sucks and it is not tivo. i want a tivo that works with my direct tv. anyone know what to do? this r15 unit just does not work.



thinknoxville said:


> I upgraded to the R15 and hate it. I have three of the Samsung S4040R and two R15s. When I got the R15s, I thought I would be getting TIVOs that would hold more hours. I was wrong. First of all, I hate the format on the R15s. I have also had numerous problems (including losing my favorite programs that I now have to wait to come out on DVD). I have asked Directv to replace them with TIVOs, but they only send me more R15s. I have replaced the R15s with two sets of new R15s, only to have the same problems. They told me that they do not have any more TIVO receivers. Now, they tell me my only option is to look on Ebay for TIVO receivers. Does anyone have any suggestions on which Directv TIVO brand/model I should look for and where to find two of them fairly cheap? Any suggestions and info would be greatly appreciated.


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## danny7481 (Dec 6, 2005)

jlmc said:


> i want a tivo that works with my direct tv. anyone know what to do? this r15 unit just does not work.


you can get a directivo off ebay, weakness, or any other 3rd party vendor.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Ereth,

If your mom wants, I have a DSR 6000 with like 90 hours or something that I'll send for the cost of shipping. All she would need to do is get an access card.


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## TequilaMB (Nov 16, 2004)

I've been following this thread ever since my R-15 was installed a week and a half ago. My feelings toward it are pretty much expressed by the title of this thread.

I originally called D* when my two-year-old original 35-hour Tivo unit appeared to be threatening to give up the ghost. I made the mistake of inquiring whether there were any special offers on upgrades to a higher-capacity unit.

I spent an hour on the phone that day (due to computer problems on D*'s end) setting up the appointment for installation of a new "100 hour unit", which the CSR said would be EITHER the R-10 or the non-Tivo R-15, and when I inquired if the R-15's UI was similar to what I was used to, I was told that they were practically identical.

The R-15 was installed, and I quickly learned the truth. I hated the lack of a true "Wish List" - I don't like the way the "Series Connection" works. I hate the fact that I could find no easy way to back out to the next level of the menu - "go back" simply brings you to your previous screen, while "exit" takes you back to the beginning. The ONLY thing I DID like about it is the PIP feature while performing menu operations. But that wasn't enough to convince me that I could live with the unit's other shortfalls.

After two days I naively called and requested that the R-15 be replaced with an R-10. I was, of course told that this could not be done. That's when I came here and found this thread.

I have since spent HOURS on the phone over the course of a week, talking to various CSR's, Supervisors, & Customer Retention specialists, resulting in several broken promises, (including the promise of delivery of an R-10 via Fedex, which, when it came, turned out to be a second R-15 - did they think I was_ STUPID?!)_, a whole passle of lies, denials, dumb-playing; promises of return calls that never came; the line being dropped after several minutes of being placed on infinite hold - not once, but TWICE in a row; being given a call-back number by a Customer Retention agent that resulted in a third disconnect when pressing "0" to speak to a live agent. I've been talked down to, told that the previous agent I spoke to "should have known better" than to tell me such-and-such, and basically been treated as if I were "the enemy". Through it all I tenaciously refused to give up, dry up, OR blow away, and I FINALLY got D* to give me a credit on my account for the amount it cost to purchase a 70-hour R-10 Tivo unit from WeaKnees. The fact that I was given misinformation right from the outset probably helped my case somewhat. My persistence in being a Royal Pain In the Rear possibly didn't hurt either. In any case, it was due to no graciousness or real desire to please the customer on D*'s part.

Eventually, if I want to stay with D*, I know I'll probably have to switch to one of their units. Hopefully by then they will have ironed out the bugs and found a way to add the features to their units that Tivo users have come to depend on. In the meantime, they'd better shape up Customer Service and stop treating their customers like dirt.


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## Rkkeller (May 13, 2004)

TequilaMB said:


> the R-15's UI was similar to what I was used


I started with the DirecTiVos too for many years (currently have an R-10, Philips 704 and 2 R-15's) but the R-15 learning curve is not hard and once you spend a couple weeks using it, it all makes sense. When I try to explain the R-15's menus, I say its more like the Windows XP start menu than the full screen DirecTivo screens.

I still use my R-10 a lot but when doing SP changes, searches and some other housekeeping type tasks, thats when I really miss the R-15's menus where you can still see and hear the entire picture and not sit in silence or just see the edges of the picture behind the large menus. With the R-15 you can even be watching a recording and make changes, do searches, etc.... The DirecTiVos kick you out to live TV if you try that.

I do agree with you and the DirecTiVo's keyword search is much better than the R-15's search ability. I don't think DirecTV can just copy DirecTiVo feature for feature as some are TiVo's exclusive features and can never be on anything but a real TiVo.


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