# Will TiVo reinstitute Lifetime Subscription?



## btl-a4 (Dec 28, 2005)

Just wondering what people's thought on this is.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

No! TiVo got rid of lifetime because they determined it was losing them money. It is highly unlikely they will ever bring it back.

Dan


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## btl-a4 (Dec 28, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> No! TiVo got rid of lifetime because they determined it was losing them money. It is highly unlikely they will ever bring it back.
> 
> Dan


Quick response I hadn't even finished the poll part before you answered.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

I think TiVo dropped lifetime now because they finally could. Up until the end of 2005 if they had dropped lifetime consumers could have chosen to purchase another product (ReplayTv) that still offered lifetime. Regardless of what you thought of ReplayTv it was competition for TiVo in the stand alone market and competition usually results in innovation and/or price constraints. The only reason TiVo would continue with lifetime is because they thought they would loose to many customers, without an alternative my guess very few customers will be lost. 

Thanks, 

atmuscarella


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## Tviodit (Aug 8, 2005)

atmuscarella said:


> The only reason TiVo would continue with lifetime is because they thought they would loose to many customers, without an alternative my guess very few customers will be lost.


Well they lost me as a future customer. If my lifetime subscribed series 1 ever dies or I finially want to upgrade to an HD model I will just get an HD- DVR from Comcast.

Why would I pay $20, $15, or even $12 a month to be locked into a contract with Tivo when I can get a DVR from Comcast for $10 a month and no contract?


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## Stanley Rohner (Jan 18, 2004)

Tviodit said:


> Well they lost me as a future customer. If my lifetime subscribed series 1 ever dies or I finially want to upgrade to an HD model I will just get an HD- DVR from Comcast.
> 
> Why would I pay $20, $15, or even $12 a month to be locked into a contract with Tivo when I can get a DVR from Comcast for $10 a month and no contract?


Boo hoo.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Tviodit said:


> Well they lost me as a future customer. If my lifetime subscribed series 1 ever dies or I finially want to upgrade to an HD model I will just get an HD- DVR from Comcast.
> 
> Why would I pay $20, $15, or even $12 a month to be locked into a contract with Tivo when I can get a DVR from Comcast for $10 a month and no contract?


Usually it would be because the product that cost more did something you wanted to do that the product that cost less couldn't do.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Tviodit: 

At this point I have no idea what I will do when my lifetime Series 2 dies or I want to go HD. I currently have Dishnetwork (have a Dish 510 DVR also) and OTA connected to TiVo. I live in a cable free zone so I am not even sure if in the future there will be a single TiVo I can use even if I want to. From what has been posted I will not be able to use a Series 3 with a Dishnetwork box and the upcoming Series 2 DT may not do OTA. Hopefully I will not have to figure it out until after the digital to analog conversion in 09. 

But to be completely honest the best thing would be to find something better to do with my time than sitting around watching TV  , by having 2 DVRs in my house it is way to easy to watch TV anytime and all the time.  

Thanks,

atmuscarella


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## tony17 (Jun 2, 2003)

Tviodit said:


> Well they lost me as a future customer. If my lifetime subscribed series 1 ever dies or I finially want to upgrade to an HD model I will just get an HD- DVR from Comcast.
> 
> Why would I pay $20, $15, or even $12 a month to be locked into a contract with Tivo when I can get a DVR from Comcast for $10 a month and no contract?


Did you try Comcast's DVR?? You may change your tune after you've done so...I know I did. If your talking about when Comcast incorporates TiVo into their boxes, then yeah, I totally agree with you.


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## Atomike (Jun 12, 2005)

I voted that it will come back, although it may be naive optimism on my part. I'm guessing that after 2 or 3 quarters with steep sales dropoff, they may revisit the lifetime option.
I may be unique, but I would never ever buy a box without lifetime, and would rather lose many features than pay anything per month.
Perhaps I'm alone, but we'll know in a few financial quarters I guess.
You can't argue with the numbers.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Tviodit said:


> Well they lost me as a future customer. If my lifetime subscribed series 1 ever dies...


This is percisely why they got rid of lifetime! You have a box that is probably 5-6 years old and you're still using it with a lifetime subscription that you probably only paid $199 for. Which means TiVo has got roughly $3 a month from you thus far and decreasing. Their operating expenses on those units are more then that! So you're now costing them money.

Now I'm not saying you should stop using your unit. You paid for lifetime and you should get a lifetime of use out of it. I'm just saying that TiVo made the false assumption that an average TiVo with lifetime would only last 3-4 years, and now they're seeing units 6+ years old still going strong and they've realized their mistake. ReplayTV did the same thing a few years back. They use to sell their units with "lifetime" bundled to the unit. However a couple years ago they started capping the initial buy to 3 years after which you had to buy an additional service plan.

Dan


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## jaybird13 (Nov 6, 2005)

I think they picked a very strategic time to kill lifetime. 

They're getting ready to introduce a slew of new products (new model DT Series 2 & HD Tivo) and are banking on most lifetime subscribers moving to those products in the next 1-2 years.

As we all know, lifetime only pays off for you in that 24th month. So you gotta ask yourself - can you live with your current low-tech Tivo for that long when better models are going to be tempting you?

Tivo's betting you can't.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> This is percisely why they got rid of lifetime! You have a box that is probably 5-6 years old and you're still using it with a lifetime subscription that you probably only paid $199 for. Which means TiVo has got roughly $3 a month from you thus far and decreasing. Their operating expenses on those units are more then that! So you're now costing them money.


Not quite.

On a box that old, Tivo has already recognized all the revenue (it's done over 4 years). After 4 years, a box is all expense (less whatever related ad revenue associated with it).

And it's extremely unlikely it costs Tivo $3/month to service it.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Actually those old units still use dial up and do cost TiVo a little over $3 each to service.

Dan


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

Atomike said:


> I'm guessing that after 2 or 3 quarters with steep sales dropoff, they may revisit the lifetime option.


A drop-off in sales may be OK for them. TiVo wanted to be everyone's PVR, but they've been becoming a niche player anyway. Even with the best PVR software (not so much on the hardware) and the best price (lifetime), they still only have fraction of a still small market.

Now I think they've gone to niche pricing, which may make them a still smaller player, but one that can eventually become profitable.



Atomike said:


> I may be unique, but I would never ever buy a box without lifetime, and would rather lose many features than pay anything per month.


I don't think you're unique. I think you're more like the typical PC buyer. TiVo is now looking for the typical Mac buyer.


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## Joeg180 (Jun 1, 2003)

Well, I know I was very happy with my series 1 until I saw that Lifetime was going away. Now that I have a series 2, I've been missing out on all sorts of features.

I converted my Series 1 to use my network for the daily call when I switched to Vonage.


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## Tviodit (Aug 8, 2005)

dswallow said:


> Usually it would be because the product that cost more did something you wanted to do that the product that cost less couldn't do.


Well can I set the Comcast DVR to record programs when I am not home and play them back later?

If it does then it does everything my Tivo does.

After all my Tivo is nothing but a glorified VCR to me. 

The only reason I bough it in the first place is because my wife would never rewind the tape in the VCR, then be pissed when her show did not record.



Dan203 said:


> This is percisely why they got rid of lifetime! You have a box that is probably 5-6 years old and you're still using it with a lifetime subscription that you probably only paid $199 for. Which means TiVo has got roughly $3 a month from you thus far and decreasing. Their operating expenses on those units are more then that! So you're now costing them money.


And what exactly am I paying for? The guide?

There are plenty of free program guides out there.

Like what the MythTV and MMPC boxes use


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## TiVo Fool (Dec 17, 2001)

tony17 said:


> Did you try Comcast's DVR?? You may change your tune after you've done so...I know I did. If your talking about when Comcast incorporates TiVo into their boxes, then yeah, I totally agree with you.


 Come on, the Comcast DVR isn't that bad!

It's no TiVo, but it's filling the HD gap for me until something better comes along.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

dgh:

During this period of change everything to do with TV seems to becoming a niche area. Used to be TV was easy 1 universal standard for just about everything, now ever piece has mutiple options and is in flux. As examples:


Screen ratios used to be 1 now we have 2 
Screen resolution used to be 1 now there is at least 5 
TVs themselves used to all be CRT now you CRT, LCD, Plasma, and mutiple projection types 
Signal transmition used to be analog now you have a mix of analog and digital 

and it goes on. Until this whole thing settles out (which may take years or decades) things will not be easy and the FCC doesn't help much. They could force many things including requiring cable, FIOS, & Satellite providers to all support a universal cable card type solution but they keep giving companies waivers and extending time periods. Until we get back to a universal standard it will very difficult for TiVo (or anyone) to provide a universal DVR solution.

Thanks,

atmuscarella


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

atmuscarella said:


> Until we get back to a universal standard it will very difficult for TiVo (or anyone) to provide a universal DVR solution.


This stuff was clear back in the 90s when TiVo started. Nonetheless, they started with a plan to conquer the world. The SA was supposed to be a short term proof of concept vehicle that would cause all the set top vendors to pound on their doors. "We'll know we've succeeded when the TiVo box vanishes" (1998).

Now it's plan B. B won't be the raging success that was once hoped for but it's less likely to be a disaster too.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Actually I don't think they've given up on plan A just yet. If the Comcast deal turns out good then they could have plenty of MSOs pounding on their doors looking to offer TiVo service on their in house DVR. The Series 3 is kind of backup plan just in case things don't work out and they need to go at it alone. Plus in a few years MSOs are going to be required to use CableCARD equipment, so if TiVo has a good foot hold in the market they could come knocking on their door for that as well.

Dan


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

Could be, but I always thought they took the Comcast deal because of the pummeling they got after announcing that they had given up on it.


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## mike3775 (Jan 3, 2003)

> but one that can eventually become profitable.


But according to their lawsuit, the reason they are not profitable is because Dish stole their patent design.

If Dish stealing their patent is the cause of them not making money, how can they also say that lifetime is hurting them as well? Why not have ended lifetime right after they first found out that Dish was stealing their patent?

When I bought my first Tivo back in 2002, I found this site and there were posts back then saying Lifetime was going away. That was over 3 yrs ago, so why didn't Tivo simply drop the plan 3 yrs ago as well?


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## tazzftw (Mar 26, 2005)

My prediction is that it'll return in limited form, as a prze (which we do have now) and award.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> Actually those old units still use dial up and do cost TiVo a little over $3 each to service.


Actually, forgot that all the units in question would use dial-up.

Does a dial-up sub really cost $3/month? For what? Are they using 800 numbers to dial in? That seems awfully high ...


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

jfh3 said:


> Actually, forgot that all the units in question would use dial-up.
> 
> Does a dial-up sub really cost $3/month? For what? Are they using 800 numbers to dial in? That seems awfully high ...


Mostly it's licensing costs from Tribune for the guide data.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

jfh3 said:


> Actually, forgot that all the units in question would use dial-up.
> 
> Does a dial-up sub really cost $3/month? For what? Are they using 800 numbers to dial in? That seems awfully high ...


I still use dial up for my TiVo. It's a Series 1, so it's the only option**

I have lifetime, and it doesn't cost me anything. But TiVo isn't getting the use of a dial up network for free.

** excluding "unofficial" and "unsupported" hacks.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

mike3775 said:


> But according to their lawsuit, the reason they are not profitable is because Dish stole their patent design.
> 
> If Dish stealing their patent is the cause of them not making money, how can they also say that lifetime is hurting them as well? Why not have ended lifetime right after they first found out that Dish was stealing their patent?
> 
> When I bought my first Tivo back in 2002, I found this site and there were posts back then saying Lifetime was going away. That was over 3 yrs ago, so why didn't Tivo simply drop the plan 3 yrs ago as well?


Be careful not to make the mistake of thinking any of this crap should actually add up. 

On the other subject...if poor TiVo is getting so hurt by dialup Series 1s, they ought to offer a $50 box swap for refurb Series 2s provided the Series 2s connect only via broadband. Anyway, don't believe the "numbers."


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## mike3775 (Jan 3, 2003)

I know HDTivo.

I laugh everytime I read that they have been losing money on this or that for so long, that its laughable. If they knew 5 yrs ago they were losing on Lifetime, they should have dropped it then, instead of waiting so long. If I ran my bar like that, I would be out of business already.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Not sure why they didn't just raise the price on Lifetime.. to $399 or something.. 

It's obvious to me some are willing to pay $499 or more for it...


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## PhillyGuy (Mar 12, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> No! TiVo got rid of lifetime because they determined it was losing them money. It is highly unlikely they will ever bring it back.
> 
> Dan


It will be back if Tivo starts to lose more money from fewer subscribers.


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## xnevergiveinx (Apr 5, 2004)

doubt it will ever come back. they were losing money on it.
kinda stupid though, because you have to figure by 2009, most people will not be using series 1 or 2 hardware...the remaining ones will be people like me that don't want to change.

i guess they figured that they might as well cut out lifetime as soon as possible to keep from losing money
i can't believe how much lifetimed units are going for on ebay right now, upwards of $400 at least. i think it's scary that people are willing to pay that for something that will obsolete technology in a couple of years...not saying it won't work, but it will be old hat at that time...kinda like cassette players and portable cd players...everyone switched to mp3 players, but there is always a small market for people who will settle for old technology
look at sirius radio: lifetime is like $500 and i'm pretty sure they are getting rid of it...but they make money because they charge you around $80 to switch your lifetime sub to new hardware. not worth it in my opinion


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## ASM520 (Mar 31, 2006)

According to TiVoPony's 3-29-06/6:42pm response, the lifetime subscription was extended to 4-15-06 by phone activation only:



TiVoPony said:


> We know that there have been retail advertisements which refer to product lifetime, and there have been requests here for a longer opportunity to purchase lifetime before it's discontinued. As a result, we have decided to offer product lifetime as a subscription option through 4/15/06, even for those that have purchased since 3/15 (you do have to call to activate lifetime service though, and lifetime is not applicable for systems purchased via a bundle plan).


 (See Question about Transferring Lifetime Thread)


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## Stylin (Dec 31, 2004)

xnevergiveinx said:


> i can't believe how much lifetimed units are going for on ebay right now, upwards of $400 at least. i think it's scary that people are willing to pay that for something that will obsolete technology in a couple of years...


Exactly, that's the point, Jane Sixpack (like me) don't like paying a monthly fee for service and are not willing to pay a mthly fee for something their cable co is offering for less. The attraction is the one time fee. Yeah the cable co boxes pale in comparison to tivo, but a) ppl STILL don't even know/understand what tivo is (Shoot! I thought I had a tivo when I got my cable cos dvr lol) b) most ppl do not understand/care about the tivo features - they just want to record shows c) if ppl are going to pay mthly they will stay "in house" (use cable co dvr) simply b/c it's easier d) eventually MCE are going to become more commonplace and user friendly. Ppl will take more time to understand MCE, than explore Tivo.
The problem is Tivo (and it's users) think tivo is great, but unfortunately it's users are a small majority of the market (Joe & Jane Sixpack). I applaud Tivo for attempting to create a more appealing pricing structure, but the current one just is not it...
I think eventually tivo will have to offer lifetime or offer better/lower upfront fees in order to keep up with the competition.


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## Stylin (Dec 31, 2004)

ASM520 said:


> According to TiVoPony's 3-29-06/6:42pm response, the lifetime subscription was extended to 4-15-06 by phone activation only:
> 
> (See Question about Transferring Lifetime Thread)


Hey welcome ASM!
We're wondering if they will bring it back after the 4/15 cutoff, as a regular feature like it was before...What do you think? Is there a possibilty?


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

I say no - but I voted that I'm tired of talking about lifetime, because I am. ;-)


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## ASM520 (Mar 31, 2006)

Stylin said:


> Hey welcome ASM!
> We're wondering if they will bring it back after the 4/15 cutoff, as a regular feature like it was before...What do you think? Is there a possibilty?


As I see it, I can pay Cox Cable in my area $16.90 mly for:

1) Coxs 80-hour DVR, that Cox will replace if it breaks;
2) A DVR that records 2 shows at the same time;
3) Enjoy a Season Pass-type feature; and
4) Cancel next month with no early termination fee.

Or, I can pay TiVo $16.95 mly for:

1) An 80-hour TiVo, that I pay labor for if it breatks;
2) A DVR that records 1 show at a time;
3) Enjoy Season Pass; and
4) Pay a $200 early termination fee if I cancel before 3 years are up.

The thing that separated TiVo from everyone else was they offered the lifetime option.

Its like my husband said, Instead of no longer offering a lifetime hunting license, our state just raised its price. Then it was up to the individual on whether they wanted to pay it, but at least they had the option.

I think that eventually TiVo will reinstate the lifetime option, even if they have to double it at first. Id be willing to bet that if people knew that its price would go up a little bit the first of each year, that TiVo would have a great Christmas rush each year.

And, Stylin, thanks for the warm welcome.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

ASM520 said:


> Or, I can pay TiVo $16.95 mly for:
> 
> 1) An 80-hour TiVo, that I pay labor for if it breatks;
> 2) A DVR that records 1 show at a time;
> ...


And all the other features - MRV, TTG, HME, and VASTLY superior software. Plus it looks like a dual-tuner box will be out soon anyway, so that rubs out the tuner difference. The only real advantage cable DVRs will still have is HD - until the Series3 comes out later in the year.

Cable DVRs have been a cheaper option for many for a while, and if you're fine with using mediocre, at best, products, that's fine. A lot of people are. A lot of people by really crappy cars just because they're cheaper too.

And some people are willing to pay more for a quality product and more features.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

megazone said:


> And all the other features - MRV, TTG, HME, and VASTLY superior software. Plus it looks like a dual-tuner box will be out soon anyway, so that rubs out the tuner difference. The only real advantage cable DVRs will still have is HD - until the Series3 comes out later in the year.


Well, yes, one day TiVo will probably close the gap on tuners and HD. Let's hope so - everyone seems to understand those. On the other hand, the only people I know who use MRV/TTG/HME, or even seem to be aware that their TiVos have them, are on this forum.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> Not sure why they didn't just raise the price on Lifetime.. to $399 or something..
> 
> It's obvious to me some are willing to pay $499 or more for it...


Some people reply because then TiVo won't get monthly revenue. But I don't buy that as a legitimate argument. Financially a monthly revenue stream is equivalent to some lumpsum figure. Apprently, $299 was too little, because TiVo underestimated the average ownership length of a TiVo. People are keeping their TiVos longer than was banked on.

There must be a lifetime dollar figure high enough that will be financially equivalent (in present value terms) to a monthly revenue of $12.99 for x months where x is the average number of months a TiVo will remain in service. Obviously, x was underestimated, so if could simply correct the estimate of x, they could come up with a viable lifetime price tag.

True, they won't have the monthly stream of income, but they could use the lifetime lump sum amount to buy an x-month long annuity that would generate the monthly revenue they seek.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

timckelley said:


> Some people reply because then TiVo won't get monthly revenue. But I don't buy that as a legitimate argument. Financially a monthly revenue stream is equivalent to some lumpsum figure. Apprently, $299 was too little, because TiVo underestimated the average ownership length of a TiVo. People are keeping their TiVos longer than was banked on.
> 
> There must be a lifetime dollar figure high enough that will be financially equivalent (in present value terms) to a monthly revenue of $12.99 for x months where x is the average number of months a TiVo will remain in service. Obviously, x was underestimated, so if could simply correct the estimate of x, they could come up with a viable lifetime price tag.
> 
> True, they won't have the monthly stream of income, but they could use the lifetime lump sum amount to buy an x-month long annuity that would generate the monthly revenue they seek.


Actually $299 was "enough."

Regardless, if they wanted a few more $, that's one thing, but they made a big mistake eliminating the All Upfront option.


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## rscaramelo (Jul 30, 2002)

I'm kind of stuck here too because of this new pricing plan. I have a SA series 2, a Comcast DVR and a MCE PC. Right before the announcement, I was about to buy a new SA and lifetime it (dumping the Comcast DVR). Now I'm reconsidering that decision and reconsidering my future with Tivo. I think the monthly fees now are crazy considering I have to jump through hoops to get it to play nice with digital cable. I may as well hold out for the Tivo update to my Comcast DVR or go MCE again. 

The Comcast DVR is a POS. It's only redeeming qualities are that it's dual tuner, can record the digital stuff and it's got a bigger HD. However it's the most unfriendly piece of junk equipment I've ever user. Glitchie beyond belief. FF through commercials is always an adventure. I don't think the writers of the software ever actually tried it out before releasing it because it sucks. 

The MCE is great but not Tivo. If the Comcast unit was this good, I'd be very pleased. It is very Tivo-like. I may drop my plans for a new SA and I might have a Shuttle MCE pc built instead.

I love Tivo but it's becoming harder for me to recommend it. I'll use my SA till it dies but beyond that...who knows.

RC


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## Stylin (Dec 31, 2004)

megazone said:


> And all the other features - MRV, TTG, HME, and VASTLY superior software.


I have no idea what those things are. Maybe it's the abbreviation I don't know about or maybe it's features I don't care about.


> Cable DVRs have been a cheaper option for many for a while, and if you're fine with using mediocre, at best, products, that's fine. A lot of people are. A lot of people by really crappy cars just because they're cheaper too.


Problem is "ignorance is bliss". If I've never used a tivo to compare, I have no idea about the enhanced features. I just got my 1st tivo, and have been using it for about 10 days, so far yeah it's cool, but beyond the basic purpose of what I bought it for (record my fav shows), I don't feel the cable co's dvr is really that inferior. The basics of what I require are present on both including a season pass. So the only decision left is price and convenience. Tivo loses.


> And some people are willing to pay more for a quality product and more features.


 "Some" ppl is a handful, not a majority. I don't think "some" is enough to keep a business viable.

SOT: Interesting though, I was reading a thread "Is tivo warping our kids", and someone brought up a good point, which is that children (2yrs- 9yrs) who are growing up with tivo, will most likely not use tv w/o it in the future. I figure if tivo can last that long it is the next generation that will sustain and grow it's market. But then again, who knows the tech that will be available then.


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

Stylin said:


> ...
> SOT: Interesting though, I was reading a thread "Is tivo warping our kids", and someone brought up a good point, which is that children (2yrs- 9yrs) who are growing up with tivo, will most likely not use tv w/o it in the future. I figure if tivo can last that long it is the next generation that will sustain and grow it's market. But then again, who knows the tech that will be available then.


My 2-year-old grandson knows how to ask "fast please" when it is time to skip commercials or filler material during his children's programming (which, BTW is limited to 1 hour or less per day).

His 4-year old big sister can drive the TiVo remote herself to accomplish the same thing. She can even pick out her programs (by their first letter) from the Now Playing screen.

They don't quite understand why we cannot fast forward during live TV to skip commercials, etc.

At their house they have an SA TiVo and at our house we have DirecTiVo units.


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## Atomike (Jun 12, 2005)

> A lot of people by really crappy cars just because they're cheaper too.


How many people do you know who own a Porche? 
Fact is, you can buy a box from Microsoft that will do nearly everything a Tivo will, plus has a 160gb hard drive, exandable storage through USB, and a DVD burner. For $500 or less at the right store. With no monthly fees. Ever.

It's soon going to come to the point when those few people that love Tivo's unique interface will have to pay an insane amount per month to keep the company afloat. Ultimate premium service will warrant ultimate premium prices. 
Long term - unworkable.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Atomike said:


> How many people do you know who own a Porche?
> Fact is, you can buy a box from Microsoft that will do nearly everything a Tivo will, plus has a 160gb hard drive, exandable storage through USB, and a DVD burner. For $500 or less at the right store. With no monthly fees. Ever.


If you're talking about MCE PCs then I doubt it. Most MCE PCs are ugly looking mini-tower computers that don't look like they belong in an entertainment center and even then cost $500-$700 just for a single analog tuner. All the real entertainment PCs I've seen, the ones that have cases that look like CE devices, cost $1500-$2000.

Dan


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

dgh said:


> On the other hand, the only people I know who use MRV/TTG/HME, or even seem to be aware that their TiVos have them, are on this forum.


Hopefully, the new instructional videos included on the new software load will help some people understand what their Tivo boxes can do.

But Tivo still hasn't figured out how to educate the consumer on (a) What Tivo is and (b) why it's better than a generic DVR.


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## Atomike (Jun 12, 2005)

> If you're talking about MCE PCs then I doubt it. Most MCE PCs are ugly looking mini-tower computers that don't look like they belong in an entertainment center and even then cost $500-$700 just for a single analog tuner. All the real entertainment PCs I've seen, the ones that have cases that look like CE devices, cost $1500-$2000.


Um, no. Dude, where have you been? I'm talking about the LG unit. The Microsoft "Tivo" that's in every Best Buy and Circuit City on the planet. $500. Cheaper at online stores.


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## mgar (Feb 14, 2005)

I voted that TiVo would bring back lifetime, but at a higher price. I don't really believe this will happen, but I can still hold out some hope. Since I already have a qualifying TiVo, the most I would be willing to spend is about 4 years equivalent which is $6.95 x 12 x 4 = 333.60. If you don't already have a unit on lifetime, then a higher price than this would be worth it.

Hopefully the Series 3 service will be the same price as the Series 2 service.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

HDTiVo said:


> Be careful not to make the mistake of thinking any of this crap should actually add up.
> 
> On the other subject...if poor TiVo is getting so hurt by dialup Series 1s, they ought to offer a $50 box swap for refurb Series 2s provided the Series 2s connect only via broadband. Anyway, don't believe the "numbers."


Heck, if the dual tuner series 2s come out before 4/15 and the lifetime-extension-to-4/15 really is true, then I'll seriously consider doing a mostly sideways swap for a dual tuner S2 and eBay my lifetimed-S1s.. Plus, the remote receiver on one of my S1s is starting to become VERY flaky/unreliable (of course I'd put all that info on the ebay ad).


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## Stainless Steele (Feb 2, 2004)

I'm very sad that it's gone and I would be surprised if it comes back.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

it wont come back because TiVo wont be needing it to move boxes against replayTV or cable co. DVRs.

They put a dealmaker in place as CEO because TiVo wants to get out of the manufacturing business. They want to develop and license software and hardware designs to companies who do manufacturing or marketing as their core competence. 

Someday TiVo wants to have ads that simply say 
- TiVo - were not the recorder, we are what makes the recorder better.


in a few years this thread will be read with a grin and lifetime will be a distant topic. But you all have fun with it


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Someday TiVo wants to have ads that simply say
> - TiVo - were not the recorder, we are what makes the recorder better.


I'm not sure that Tivo knows what an ad is ...


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## jones07 (Jan 30, 2001)

With ReplayTV out of the picture...............Lifetime is gone for good.


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## markandjenn (Sep 21, 2003)

I still don't know why people who have a lifetime box are so upset. For the most part, the lifetime boxes can last 6+ years as stated above. Any additionaly units cost only $6.95 per month. So for those that have a lifetime box, the return rate for a second lifetime box is not 24 months, but 43 months. Odds are, there will be a new TiVo every 3.5 years, so the way I see it is that a second lifetime box didn't make sense to me. I see that there is an upgrade path that is a lot more attractive at the $6.95 per month option. I for one, don't care that lifetime has gone away., as I already have one unit with lifetime and wouldn't think about buying another one. I would recommend that those that are complaining that lifetime is going away that don't have a lifetime unit, hurry up and get one. Those that have a lifetime unit, I don't see the big deal.

That's just my 2 cents.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

markandjenn said:


> So for those that have a lifetime box, the return rate for a second lifetime box is not 24 months, but 43 months.


That's only true if your TiVo explodes. As long as your TiVo works, the lifetime attached to it has value, and the market values it highly, so the break even time is quite short - typically almost instant. Even if your TiVo dies, you can get something out of lifetime on ebay from someone who hopes he's better at fixing it than you are. The monthly cost of a lifetimed TiVo is not lifetime cost/months, it's (lifetime retail - typical used lifetime price)/months. The latter is way lower than $6.95 in every case I've seen.

Or looking at it from TiVo's point of view, there's a reason they dropped the lifetime and not the $6.95. They'll even give you the $6.95 if you call to cancel one TiVo. Someone there did the math and could tell which one was better for them.


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## krbagman (Jan 24, 2006)

I purchased a Series 2 80 hour Tivo from Best Buy in early late January of this year (still waiting for the $150 rebate). I am paying $12.95 for monthly service. Should I jump on the lifetime service for $299 (not sure of price) before it ends April 15th? Do I even have any options at this point?

You guys who understand all this can you help? I have Dish Network and don't plan on upgrading to the new Tivo when it comes out. I am very happy with the Series 2 system as it is and will continue to use it as long as my system is usable, replacing a hard-drive as needed.

Any advice??

Ken


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

krbagman said:


> I purchased a Series 2 80 hour Tivo from Best Buy in early late January of this year (still waiting for the $150 rebate). I am paying $12.95 for monthly service. Should I jump on the lifetime service for $299 (not sure of price) before it ends April 15th? Do I even have any options at this point?
> 
> You guys who understand all this can you help? I have Dish Network and don't plan on upgrading to the new Tivo when it comes out. I am very happy with the Series 2 system as it is and will continue to use it as long as my system is usable, replacing a hard-drive as needed.
> 
> ...


By all means jump on Lifetime before next Saturday! I wouldn't have considered TiVo for $12.95 monthly.

Even TiVo Inc. seems to realize that $12.95 is too much for many subs. because (on other threads on these Forums) they have been reported to be offering the $6.95 rate to subs. who call in to cancel their $12.95 service after the one year commitment.


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## Stylin (Dec 31, 2004)

krbagman said:


> I purchased a Series 2 80 hour Tivo from Best Buy in early late January of this year (still waiting for the $150 rebate). I am paying $12.95 for monthly service. Should I jump on the lifetime service for $299 (not sure of price) before it ends April 15th? Do I even have any options at this point?
> 
> You guys who understand all this can you help? I have Dish Network and don't plan on upgrading to the new Tivo when it comes out. I am very happy with the Series 2 system as it is and will continue to use it as long as my system is usable, replacing a hard-drive as needed.
> 
> ...


Hey Ken,
I've noticed you've asked this question in 2 other posts - I think for the most part the answer will be yes go for it. 
On the first page of this forum, there is a "search this forum" button - if you type in lifetime many discussions will come up, you can also use "advanced" to filter the results better. It's been really helpful for me.
The following are some previous threads that have discussed the pros/cons. You'll get a lot of different opinions/reasons
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=293432 
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=292290
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=291196
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=291252
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=291489
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=291437
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=290681
enjoy...


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## annenoe (Oct 19, 2003)

Tviodit said:


> Well they lost me as a future customer. If my lifetime subscribed series 1 ever dies or I finially want to upgrade to an HD model I will just get an HD- DVR from Comcast.
> 
> Why would I pay $20, $15, or even $12 a month to be locked into a contract with Tivo when I can get a DVR from Comcast for $10 a month and no contract?


Me too. I hate to say it, but I will never buy another tivo. I will keep the two I have, and love them as much as I do now.

And all this angst... What to do when Series 3 comes out... Should we switch to cable? How will we record HD... Well, thanks Tivo, you just solved it for me.

Stay w/ DirecTV/HD and buy an HD-compatible media center. I'm sure I'll miss some of the options but it's time I grow up and get over it.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

annenoe said:


> Me too. I hate to say it, but I will never buy another tivo. I will keep the two I have, and love them as much as I do now.
> 
> And all this angst... What to do when Series 3 comes out... Should we switch to cable? How will we record HD... Well, thanks Tivo, you just solved it for me.
> 
> Stay w/ DirecTV/HD and buy an HD-compatible media center. I'm sure I'll miss some of the options but it's time I grow up and get over it.


So what you're saying is that you want a state-of-the-art Tivo, but only if it costs the same as a generic DVR?

You get what you pay for.

I'm not a big fan of the 1 year commitment on boxes that don't have a hardware rebate to recover, but I'm also sure that Tivo will adjust their subscription plans if they see a significant (negative) change in new subscribers.

Personally, I'm waiting for a 4th quarter surprise - like lowering the stand-alone sub price after the ComcasTivo software is available on Comcast DVRs.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

TiVo Fool said:


> Come on, the Comcast DVR isn't that bad!
> 
> It's no TiVo, but it's filling the HD gap for me until something better comes along.


There apparently are many versions of Comcast's DVR. I have *this one*. Perhaps it can't record programs as unerringly as TiVo, but y'know; it doesn't matter to me. I like to watch TV mostly in realtime and record only those shows that conflict with other shows or with my schedule. That's not right or wrong or good or bad; its just a personal preference.

I like TiVo, but only as much as the invention of hard drive recorders in general. TiVo is the HD recorder that specializes in recording programs for viewers who want to watch all TV programs timeshifted. Watching TV that way is perhaps most appropriate for viewers who are extremely busy or high-tech oriented and many posters on these TiVo Forums appear to be in those categories. But timeshifting certainly isn't my first choice. I want to watch shows I like when they are first aired. I probably timeshift 10-15% of what I watch.

I find Comcast's DVR as useful as TiVo for my TV watching habits. It can record two programs at once and has a more legible EPG than TiVo. It is easy to use. Comcast's DVR has a 1 1/2 hr. recording buffer for digital channels (45 mins. for analog). Comcast's service is relatively cheap ($10. monthly) and I don't have to buy the DVR. I can cancel and return the box at any time.

I am not denigrating TiVo. TiVo is best for timeshifting everything, which is what it's especially designed to be used for. However many TV viewers are not as focused on TV as perhaps the majority of posters on these TiVo Forums. TiVo Inc.'s marketing department undoubtedly knows more about TV viewing habits than I do, and probably most posters at these Forums. TiVo will achieve profitability by dealing with the realities of its marketplace.

I chose the "nic" TiVo Troll because some posters on these Forums will probably accuse me of being hostile to TiVo when in fact I like it, but am at the same time not a TiVo cult member.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

TiVo Troll said:


> I like TiVo, but only as much as the invention of hard drive recorders in general. TiVo is the HD recorder that specializes in recording programs for viewers who want to watch all TV programs timeshifted. Watching TV that way is perhaps most appropriate for viewers who are extremely busy or high-tech oriented and many posters on these TiVo Forums appear to be in those categories. But timeshifting certainly isn't my first choice. I want to watch shows I like when they are first aired. I probably timeshift 10-15% of what I watch.


I think you should get into the habit of time-shifting things, even if only by 15 minutes! (As I repeated for the zillionth time in another thread, I used VCRs to avoid commercials for many many years before I had a Tivo..)

I *do* still sometimes watch things live, but usually only when it's CNN or something as background noise, or it's the *4th* thing on at a time that I want to see, with none of them repeating... (in the latter case, I use PIP + Tivo to watch something else during the live show's commercials.)


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## NOREBATE (Apr 12, 2006)

After four months of waiting I still do not have my $150 rebate from December 2005. I know they are in financial ruins but when I bought Tivo and paid for lifetime service it was predicated on a $150 rebate. 

If I were you, I would not expect a rebate check from Tivo. 

Tivo Customer service is of no use. I asked about returning my unit to Costco and requested a pro-rated refund for my pre-paid Lifetime Service. Kelsa, the customer service investigator, was unable to cancel my service (OOPs sorry it past 30 days) or reverse the charge on my credit card.

One unhappy customer can tell millions. Don't do the Lifetime deal based upon any rebate. You won't be getting one.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

mattack said:


> I think you should get into the habit of time-shifting things, even if only by 15 minutes! (As I repeated for the zillionth time in another thread, I used VCRs to avoid commercials for many many years before I had a Tivo..)
> 
> I *do* still sometimes watch things live, but usually only when it's CNN or something as background noise, or it's the *4th* thing on at a time that I want to see, with none of them repeating... (in the latter case, I use PIP + Tivo to watch something else during the live show's commercials.)


Why? Commercials are more annoying when FF'ing through them than when just letting them play. Actually often I am a few minutes behind "live" because the rewind feature is really useful in repeating something not quite understood the first time. Then FF'ing through commercials is handy to get back to realtime.

My Panny DMR-E85H DVD Recorder actually plays non-pitch-shifted audio from its HD at both 1.3 and 2x realtime, but has no recording buffer. Only the 1.3 speed is understandable.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

NOREBATE said:


> After four months of waiting I still do not have my $150 rebate from December 2005. I know they are in financial ruins but when I bought Tivo and paid for lifetime service it was predicated on a $150 rebate.
> 
> If I were you, I would not expect a rebate check from Tivo.
> 
> ...


1) Tivo isn't anywhere near financial ruin.
2) Tivo rebates are handled by a fullfillment company. Follow up with them. You did keep copies, didn't you? Check tivorebates.com.
3) I don't understand the connection between cancelling lifetime and getting a rebate on the box. You are the first person I've ever heard that "did lifetime for the rebate on the box".


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