# Which other PVR are you moving to ?



## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

With the service closing for Thomson S1 users,
- even if the service will continue unofficially via 3rd parties -
many of us are moving on to other PVRs, so it's time for a poll:

Which PVR are you moving to?

Please post details if choosing "other freeview PVR" etc.

(I know there is the options thread, but this is just for seeing where people are/have moved to)


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## CarlWalters (Oct 17, 2001)

1 x TiVo FreeSat (UK Alternate EPG)
1 x TiVo FreeSat (UK Alternate EPG)
1 x PlayTV FreeView


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## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

Already have 2 SKY+ boxes and a lifetime Tivo

Main day to day recording is on the main SKY+ box, the second is for the kids and Tivo which reliable picks up my fave programs unlike Sky+

Have no interest in Freeview as most of the programs I like are only on Sky and Virgin and as I have said many times before, cant get virgin despite being only 15 metres away.

Interested in exploring Win7 media centre once I have a desktop man enough to run it.


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## BlackPrince (May 16, 2009)

I'm not replacing it with a device at all. I'll be using just iPlayer and similar for the stuff for which I don't want to wait to rent a DVD.


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## johnscott99 (Sep 23, 2002)

Got a Humax HDR T2 - 50)Gb

Works a treat. 

Still gonna use the TiVo - unless they somehow disable it.


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## johala_reewi (Oct 30, 2002)

Hopefully will be able to use the replacement S1 service until DSO (2012) when we will finally get freeview HD. Will then check out what's available in the HD arena (DTT or Sat). If no S1 service, will check out MythTV or get a Humax freesat box.


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## cashew1970 (Oct 21, 2004)

I have Sky+ (reinstated after the announcement of EPG) (Just for stuff on Sky Only channels, and when i want to remote record things)
I have a Humax Fox HD T2 for everyday stuff (much prefer the interface on this)
and an Old Humax 9300 just doing "Friends" (the TV fillers!)


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## Paulg (Aug 23, 2004)

MythTV for me. A pain in the proverbial to set up, but its been working well since. Recordings from a DVB-T card are in MPeg2 format so are easy to edit and play


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

MCE on Windows 7 with extenders is the plan. I'll also hope to keep my Tivo on with the new EPG.


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

TiVo S1 for me. (can't afford anything else)


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## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

spitfires said:


> TiVo S1 for me. (can't afford anything else)


Aint that the truth !!!

I also have an unsubbed Tivo that I was given which I hope to be able to use once the alternate EPG becomes available.

I have yet another Tivo sitting in the garage which I bought a couple of years ago from eBay but it pixellates the display. Not sure if its the motherboard or just a duff hard disc. May revisit that machine once the new EPG is ready.


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## Nebulous (Nov 28, 2005)

I went to Windows Media Centre because it gives me a user interface nearly as good as Tivo (IMHO), plus that ability to record in HD on multiple channels at the same time.
I got it just before the news of the end of the EPG service, so that did not influence my decision.


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## WindyMiller (May 21, 2005)

Sticking with my TiVo S1 for now (assuming the replacement EPG comes to fruition), but hoping that YouView might provide something worth replacing it with in due course.


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## LarryDavid (Jan 4, 2007)

Ordered a 2nd hand SKY+ box off ebay. Order had problems, buyer felt so bad he sent me THREE (yes! Three!) SKY+ boxes. So, have an octo LNB waiting for install and cable running.

However, if (when) Murdoch gets the rest of BSkyB (what a stitch up that is by the ConDems) the SKY is getting cancelled and will most likely replace with a Humax Freesat.

In either situation, was going to use the TiVo with replacement service along with the old standard SKY box as an 'extra' recording facility.


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## Steve_K (May 5, 2001)

I wouldn't Larry. The user interface on Sky+/HD isn't as good as TiVo (but not as bad as BT Vision) and Sky+ does the need the occasional reboot but the recording quality is excellent and they are slowly improving the user interface.


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## Jolltax (Aug 4, 2003)

I have bought a load of components and am going to build an HTPC which will do HD freeview, satellite, network media and blu-ray :up:

If the 'alternative epg project' comes through I will continue to use TiVo but we will no longer be using it as our primary box any more - its about time we went HD anyway so i am using it as an excuse to buy a new telly as well.

Jolltax


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## adrianw (Feb 2, 2009)

Bought a Humax 9300T.
Canceled Sky. I'll miss Sky Arts.


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## Paul_J (Jan 9, 2001)

I Have bought a second sky+ box and upgraded the HDD very cheap as the box was £27 pounds delivered and I already had a spare 500gb HDD. Left this being controlled by the TiVo but started setting series links. Not as good as TiVo but gives me options. Roll on the alternative EPG must be the best option.


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## tonywalk (Sep 10, 2002)

I bet Tivo are watching this poll and sobbing. If only they'd offered a Freeview box.


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## Buzby (Feb 21, 2011)

Doubt it. I'm moving to VM TiVo, and will retire my S1 next week !


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## Trinitron (Jan 20, 2003)

tonywalk said:


> I bet Tivo are watching this poll and sobbing. If only they'd offered a Freeview box.


Really? Just 88 people have voted, half of which are saying they will stick with TiVo if the new EPG can be made to work. Hardly evidence that a Freeview TiVo would be popular enough to be a sustainable alternative - one thing the poll doesn't cover for a start is how many of those who are satisfied with Freeview would be prepared to pay for an EPG service.


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## kixonroute67 (Oct 26, 2010)

My TV licence comes up for renewal in july, I'm planning on getting rid of my tv, replacing it with a video projector (no tuner) for games and DVD's and ditching broadcast TV altogether.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Remember you need a license even for iPlayer etc.


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## LarryDavid (Jan 4, 2007)

TCM2007 said:


> Remember you need a license even for iPlayer etc.


Not quite true actually. You only need a licence to watch LIVE tv on i-player. Watching after broadcast is quite legit.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

TCM2007 said:


> Remember you need a license even for iPlayer etc.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/01/iplayer_does_not_require_a_tv_1.html

Is that not the case any more?

I thought if it was not "live tv" it was okay?

Automan.


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## Millimole (May 29, 2003)

I've bought a Humax Freesat HDR (which seems to be playing up already  ) as insurance.
While the Tivo was running with an old Sky box - I thought it would be simple to get it run with a Freeview box - stoopid me!
I have now got a refurb'd Phillips DTR200 Freeview box from the Tesco Outlet shop on fleabay, which works tolerably to go with the Tivo.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Seems I was wrong! Although good luck convincing the licensing people that you never click the "watch live tv" button in iPlayer!


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## alek (May 22, 2008)

TCM2007 said:


> Seems I was wrong! Although good luck convincing the licensing people that you never click the "watch live tv" button in iPlayer!


If you don't have a tv in the house and write in an inform them so.

Is there any reason for them to ever bother you.

Alek


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

:down: My g/f didn't have a TV for 8 years - the licensing people simply won't believe that anyone nowadays does not have a TV and will write you a snotty accusing letter every 6 months saying they'll fine you £1,000 if they find you _have_ got a TV.

She invited them round for tea and cakes but they didn't show up.

p.s. don't forget you need a license for "live" cable & satellite programmes too - it's not just via aerial.


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## LarryDavid (Jan 4, 2007)

TCM2007 said:


> Seems I was wrong! Although good luck convincing the licensing people that you never click the "watch live tv" button in iPlayer!


Well, a friend of mine who is doing exactly this (he is totally skint and has to remove living costs almost anywhere he can) had the licence people round. He told them this, they agreed and they left.

The burden of proof is pretty much on them to prove that you watch live TV, so as long as you don't, you're fine.

I don't advocate it generally tbh, I think we get good value from the Beeb for the money and prefer it to adverts. But its legal so no-one can have any complaints can they?


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

It's a loophole if you watch iPlayer - you are consuming the programmes without paying for them like everyone else.

No doubt it will get closed eventually.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

alek said:


> If you don't have a tv in the house and write in an inform them so.
> 
> Is there any reason for them to ever bother you.
> Alek


They simply bother any address without a licence, persumably the hit rate is high enough to be worth the cost of the direct mail.

My friends have no TV and haven't had one in 10 years but get a letter every 6 months and the odd visit.

I moved house and a while later got a threatening letter redirected addressed to me/the occupier of the old address.
As it had my name on it it was redirected by the Royal Mail but we'd never had the licence in my name always under my partner's different last name.
I rang them and explained the situation and gave them the new owners details so at least they would get the warnings - I then warned the new owners. I then got 2 more letters from the TV licence people anyway.

It's legal for now but I strongly suspect that there will be moves to make all broadband TV consumption licensed or levied as internet TV becomes more prevalent.


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## irrelevant (Mar 19, 2002)

I used to rent a PO Box - a 1" wide pigeon hole behind the counter of the local Royal Mail sorting office. I received TV licence demands addressed to that! I'd like to have known what sort of telly would have fitted in there, even if I'd been allowed behind the counter to watch it.


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## kixonroute67 (Oct 26, 2010)

I'm figuring on not using iplayer either, while its doesn't technically require the licence, that more just feels like a loophole.

A lot of people are advising me that I should pay the money because the bullying I'm going to get. Also, I'm amazed at the number of people I've spoken to about it think its immoral to not support the bbc or the licence fee model, like its opting out of national insurance or something!


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

LarryDavid said:


> The burden of proof is pretty much on them to prove that you watch live TV.


That used to be so but changed around 15 years ago. They don't have to catch you in the act any more; now all they have to do is "have good reason to believe" that you either are watching or _have_ watched live tv. Ring ding, £1,000 please.


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

AMc said:


> I then got 2 more letters from the TV licence people anyway.


After my Mum died I wrote and cancelled her free-for-the-over-75s license, like a good little boy. We continued to get a threatening letter every 6 months _addressed to my Mum_! for the next 2 years until we sold the house.

I even wrote to them and complained about the distress such letters were causing. Result... "we will update our database with the new information". yeah right.


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

Strictly speaking the license is for watching _live_ tv; time-shifted tv is specifically excluded (hence why iPlayer is ok - for now at least). So... one could legitimately argue that since _everything_ I watch is TiVo'd (even if it's only by a few minutes) then it's all time-shifted and therefore I don't need a license!

Bit iffy though and certainly not within the spirit of the legislation!


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

No, because while you were watching time shifted, your TiVo was recording live, and you'd need a licence for that.


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## irrelevant (Mar 19, 2002)

Do they still do B&W licences? The rules for those were you can have a B&W licence if you only have B&W TVs, but if you have, say, a VCR that can record in colour, you needed a colour licence. (I used to have an old VCR that had a switch to turn the colour off on recordings...)


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

@TCM2007
Ah yes of course - silly me!



> Check if you need a TV Licence
> 
> It costs £145.50 for colour and £49.00 for a black and white TV Licence.You need to be covered by a valid TV Licence if you watch or record TV as it's being broadcast. This includes the use of devices such as a computer, laptop, mobile phone or DVD/video recorder.
> 
> It costs £145.50 for colour and £49.00 for a black and white TV Licence.


(source)

.


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## alek (May 22, 2008)

spitfires said:


> all they have to do is "have good reason to believe" that you either are watching or _have_ watched live tv. Ring ding, £1,000 please.


You will have to give me chapter and verse of the legislation before I will swallow that.

Alek


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## Trinitron (Jan 20, 2003)

Communications Act 2003, Part 4. (Emphasis added)

s. 363


> (1) A television receiver must not be installed or used unless the installation and use of the receiver is authorised by a licence under this Part.


s. 366


> (1) If a justice of the peace, a sheriff in Scotland or a lay magistrate in Northern Ireland is satisfied by information on oath that _*there are reasonable grounds for believing*_-
> (a) that an offence under section 363 has been or is being committed,
> (b) that evidence of the commission of the offence is likely to be on premises specified in the information, or in a vehicle so specified, and(c)that one or more of the conditions set out in subsection (3) is satisfied,he may grant a warrant under this section.
> 
> ...


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## alek (May 22, 2008)

Trinitron said:


> Communications Act 2003, Part 4. (Emphasis added)
> 
> s. 363
> 
> s. 366


Well I sure ain't no lawyer. But that says that if "there are reasonable grounds for believing" and "they" go before a magistrate, sheriff or JP and swear this on oath, they "may" be granted a warrant to investigate the premesis/vehicle where said offence is "reasonably believed to have / be happening.

The offence will still have to be proved before a fine can be levied.

Alek


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

The point is they don't have to catch you actually watching it - if there is a TV plugged in to the wall, even if it's switched off, then you are in breach of s.363.



alek said:


> The offence will still have to be proved before a fine can be levied.


The offence is having equipment installled without a license, *not* watching tv without a license. The proof is simply switching the tv on & selecting BBC channel - if it displays live tv then you are guilty.

.


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## alek (May 22, 2008)

spitfires said:


> The point is they don't have to catch you actually watching it - if there is a TV plugged in to the wall, even if it's switched off, then you are in breach of s.363.
> 
> The offence is having equipment installled without a license, *not* watching tv without a license. The proof is simply switching the tv on & selecting BBC channel - if it displays live tv then you are guilty.
> 
> .


I concur

Alek


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## martink0646 (Feb 8, 2005)

Hi All,

There's a couple of points here. AIUI ahving looked into this a couple of years back, the TV Licensing people compare the electoral roll with their list of license holders & send all the disconnects a letter, assuming that every household has a TV. Again, AIUI there are no such things anymore as the detector vans as you can do the same thing with database matching, threatening letters & as a last resort, a visit. The old adverts of vans patrolling up & down streets at night are no more...if they ever were!

The second issue is the harvesting of data by shops when you buy any AV eqpt with a tuner in it. The shop is required by law (supposedly) to take down buyers details & forward them to TV Licensing who then match this record with their details & send a letter out. I know this happens because three years ago I bought a TV & DVD recorder about a month apart & received two letters (the TV licence is in my wife's name) threatening me with a fine. I rang them up & queried why they were sending me the letters when we have a licence & was assured that it was an automated system.

At the time it felt to me that the passing on of the data to the govt without my permission was totally against the Data Protection act & I was told that it probably was but that no one had & probably would not test this. I wonder if someone has tested it & that this process has now stopped because I bought a freeview box & Freesat box a few months ago & wasn't asked for any details. maybe someone in retail could let us know.

Martin


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## nilling (Oct 7, 2002)

Bought Humax HDR-FOXT2-1TB £349

Cancelled $ky after about 20 years! Saving £612 pa.

Not sure what user I could put my Series 1 TiVo, any ideas?


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## Trinitron (Jan 20, 2003)

martink0646 said:


> At the time it felt to me that the passing on of the data to the govt without my permission was totally against the Data Protection act & I was told that it probably was but that no one had & probably would not test this.


They don't have to get your permission but should tell you why they want your details. The Wireless Telegraphy Act requires retailers to collect details of purchasers of "television sets" (in its widest sense). Because collection of this data is required by law the DPA loses some of its effect.

PS The data doesn't go to "the Government", it goes to the BBC who have been authorised since 1991 to run the TV Licensing scheme.

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/about/foi-administering-the-tv-licensing-system-part-2-AB20/



> Retailer notification
> Why do television retailers record and pass information to TV Licensing about people who buy or rent television sets from them?
> 
> The Wireless Telegraphy Act 1967 (as amended) obliges retailers to notify TV Licensing of any sales or rentals of television sets. The Act specifies the type of information a retailer must record from someone who buys or hires a television set, which is then notified by the retailer to TV Licensing. Notification must take place within 28 days of the purchase or rental date. Failure to provide notification is an offence under the Wireless Telegraphy Act.
> ...





> Are retailers required to inform people who buy or hire television equipment that their personal data will be disclosed to TV Licensing?
> 
> It is up to retailers to inform their customers, in accordance with their obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998, about why they are processing customers' personal data. The processing of personal data by retailers is lawful because it is necessary for compliance with their legal obligation under the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1967 (as amended).


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## tivofromdayone (Aug 19, 2005)

Freeview. Humax HDR Fox T2 (500). Now its on updated firmware (a must for any buyer) it is doing most of what Tivo used to do for us as Tivo dealt with a freeview box and GFs Sky+ did the satellite stuff.

Consequently the Humax unit is doing everything apart from wishlists (which is not an option). Though Series links and title/keyword searches are in there so the box has plenty to record.

Ironically, much as I miss Tivo, the fact we are now watching and recording HD content has made up for the loss to a huge degree. A network connection and USB for image,music and video playback (Divx and similar though no MKV unfortunately) also further expands its usability.

I should add, I didnt tick the Sky+ on the poll as that is the GFs unit and runs in parallel to my Cheapskate freeview approach. Though that may skew the results by one.

Similarly, although Tivo is now officially boxed and lofted, I am still watching the whole 3rd party EPG scene. 

That said, we have gotten used to life without Tivo and the Humax is doing an admirable job. 

Depending on whether it is worthwhile tring to keep Tivo in use based on costs (daily call or network access) would until recently have been the only consideration. But as the humax has no need for a daily call and is actually a viable substitute for Tivo with far better quality, twin tuners and internet/network links for iplayer and the like, I may well never reinstate Tivo. 

We all forgave the quality of Tivo playback due to its ultra friendly frontend (excluding the people who hacked for mode 0 on their box to bring a better quality to the party). But now I am using HD a lot, it is looking ever more unlikely the Tivo will ever record again. For that reason, I did not vote on the 3rd party EPG as I may no longer be a Tivo user by the time it comes to fruition.


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## LarryDavid (Jan 4, 2007)

spitfires said:


> The point is they don't have to catch you actually watching it - if there is a TV plugged in to the wall, even if it's switched off, then you are in breach of s.363.
> 
> The offence is having equipment installled without a license, *not* watching tv without a license. The proof is simply switching the tv on & selecting BBC channel - if it displays live tv then you are guilty.
> 
> .


Yes, its always best to back this up by de-tuning your TV (and any other receiving equipment) and then unplugging it.

Had something similar when I was a kid, during some hard times. Parents couldn't afford the licence for a while (unemployed) and I was playing the old VIC-20 on the downstairs telly (many others may remember what a treat it was to be able to play the computer on the 'big' telly). Anyway, the detector van/man came round, looked in to check that I was indeed playing the computer on the TV and left quite happily.


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## Nimbus (May 29, 2004)

tivofromdayone said:


> A network connection and USB for image,music and video playback (Divx and similar though no MKV unfortunately) also further expands its usability.


Can you watch divx thro the network connection, or only a usb stick ?

From what I can tell reading about the various 'hacks', the humax can be made into a fileserver, so you can watch its contents elsewhere, but cannot itself read from an existing fileserver ?


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## martink0646 (Feb 8, 2005)

Trinitron said:


> They don't have to get your permission but should tell you why they want your details. The Wireless Telegraphy Act requires retailers to collect details of purchasers of "television sets" (in its widest sense). Because collection of this data is required by law the DPA loses some of its effect.
> 
> PS The data doesn't go to "the Government", it goes to the BBC who have been authorised since 1991 to run the TV Licensing scheme.
> 
> http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/about/foi-administering-the-tv-licensing-system-part-2-AB20/


Hi Trinitron,

Thanks for the confirmation. That means that the shop who recently sold me a Freeview box & a Freesat box on two seperate occasions were actually breaking the law. Good for them I say!!

I like the way the wording totally circumvents the DPA which whilst a thoroughly good idea has such huge holes in it as to be alomost worthless.

Martin


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Samsung have also just launched a new Freesat+ box, the SMT-S7800

Looks interesting but detail of it has been removed from the Samsung website!

Curry's have them @ £249.99. (edit now £279.99 - inflation  )

http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/samsung-500gb-freesat-hd-digital-tv-recorder-09933610-pdt.html

NOTE / Warning: No IR support as of yet for Tivo with this model.

Automan.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Automan said:


> Samsung have also just launched a new Freesat+ box, the SMT-S7800
> 
> Looks interesting but detail of it has been removed from the Samsung website!
> 
> ...


As a Tivo replacement it is worse than the Humax one.

Reason being the find option only works for a selected day rather than any matches in next seven days.

Just in day search mode it is a lot slower than the Humax.

Also some bugs.

Will not record movies on chn4,+1,film4,+1,more4,+1,e4,+1. Other items on these channels can be recorded.

HDMI audio out only works with my Sony amp if I set it to pass audio to TV.

Otherwise no sound.

It does indeed push your 1080i and all other channels up to 1080p 50Hz

Automan.


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## tivofromdayone (Aug 19, 2005)

Nimbus said:


> Can you watch divx thro the network connection, or only a usb stick ?
> 
> From what I can tell reading about the various 'hacks', the humax can be made into a fileserver, so you can watch its contents elsewhere, but cannot itself read from an existing fileserver ?


Box has an FTP server facility, but not looked into that as yet. However, what I have done is connect the Fox to the router and it can see and access files from the network hard drive. Just spent a few minutes checking its functionality. DivX stuff plays back fine. It cannot read MKV at all, and although it will read and play a backup of a DVD, it doesn't seem to handle the video perfectly, a bit juddery there. But for DivX and MP3 (and photos) it seems perfect. Thats another string to the Fox bow.

Only other thing I haven't got working yet is the portal, but will look into that when I get more time to play with


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