# Series 3 Tivo > Premier ??



## PatMcNJ (May 22, 2006)

I am so grateful to these forums...... I have the original Series 3 with Lifetime service. It stopped working last week. I sort of blanked out and bought a new Premier with Lifetime service, about $500 in total. Then I realized, what am I doing, that S3 has lifetime, I could either try to fix it or even sell it broken. I researched, and it sounded like I just needed a new hard drive, so I ordered one from Weaknees. 

Meanwhile, I was working with the new Premier. OMG we all hated it. Ok, minor issues of missing the clock and the names of shows recording on the front panel..... then the Premier began freezing up, and had to be unplugged to get it moving again. After reading the forums here, I learned it is a problem with the Premier not responding to the remote commands, not that the Tivo is actually freezing up. Well, same result. (At least the S3 has buttons on the front so you can run it without a remote if you had to!)

Today I installed the new hard drive in the old S3, and that was easy enough, and I am not a techie, just a 50+ year old Mom of 4. (The amount of DUST inside the unit was unreal too) I installed the 2 cablecards myself (cablevision no longer rolls out for this). And we are back in business! I LOVE my Series 3!! 

I see no improvements in the Premier worth keeping that unit. I might, if it worked correctly, for another TV here. But I will return it to BB in the morning, cancel that lifetime service and get my $500 back....

I would love to get an Elite someday, but will wait for the bugs to be worked out..... I remember there were some issues with the Series 3 in the beginning, but I was surprised at the Premier, since it has been out for awhile. I am not sure if it was just a faulty unit, or something they all do.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

I never upgraded to a Premiere myself, too buggy still. 

I have a Series 3 HD (652), not long ago, while I had an external DVR Expander drive connected for around 3 yrs. It later failed, and the original drive inside was still working, alas without my recordings and only 20 HD hrs. I got a 1Tb drive from Bestbuy and using WinMFS I was able to copy everything over, season passes went along. Currently I have 157 HD hrs. I am not planning to upgrade it any time soon. 

The new Premiere Elite will not work with OTA or analog cable, only digital cable. For its price of $500, its not worth it. Same for the Lifetime pricing of $499.99/$399.99 msd.


You can have an onscreen clock, to set, play a recording and press Select-Play-Select-9-Select. 3 pings means success.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

No such problems here. The Premiere is clearly superior in every way, except the lack of the front display. The HDUI may be buggy... if so, then turn it off. Running the SDUI, the Premiere works as well as the S3, but is much faster.


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## thomb (Jan 22, 2008)

wmcbrine said:


> ... The Premiere is clearly superior in every way...


UNLESS you need to hack it. Since the Premiere Lacks the ability to remove CCI, it is a show stopper for our household.


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## Teeps (Aug 16, 2001)

PatMcNJ said:


> I see no improvements in the Premier worth keeping that unit. I might, if it worked correctly, for another TV here. But I will return it to BB in the morning, cancel that lifetime service and get my $500 back.....


In the past I have written "defective" on the unit and the box; so best buy doesn't try to resell as open box unit.


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## uw69 (Jan 25, 2001)

ThAbtO said:


> I never upgraded to a Premiere myself, too buggy still.
> 
> I have a Series 3 HD (652), not long ago, while I had an external DVR Expander drive connected for around 3 yrs. It later failed, and the original drive inside was still working, alas without my recordings and only 20 HD hrs. I got a 1Tb drive from Bestbuy and using WinMFS I was able to copy everything over, season passes went along. Currently I have 157 HD hrs. I am not planning to upgrade it any time soon.
> 
> ...


I still think the original series 3 with OLED screen is the best DVR Tivo has ever made. I have never used a premiere and have never been tempted to. The series 3 just works.


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## PatMcNJ (May 22, 2006)

I WAS using the older screen menus, the problem was the same. And I also tried using the slide remote, because I read that it would work when other remotes failed. Nope. 

I should have written on the box, good idea. I of course TOLD BB that I had problems with it. 

When I called to cancel my Lifetime on the new Premiere, I asked Tivo, is this a hardware issue, software, or what? They would not answer...... I am just glad I was within the 30 day window to cancel the service, and was able to return the unit.

I don't know what could be faster on the Series 3 that I have, the menus pop up fast as you click thru them. i guess transfers between Tivos could be quicker, or downloads from amazon.com, but I can live with that. I never upgraded the memory before,, so for this repair I just swapped out the hard drive for a new one from Weaknees.


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## Kamaru (Aug 8, 2009)

I regret buying my premier, it was a complete disappointment once I started using it. Thankfully I still have my S3. I see absolutely no compelling reason to keep the Premier over the S3. I got the year long deal on the premier and have no plans to renew when it is up. I'll just continue using the S3 until it stops working, or TiVo goes back to making the kind of high quality hardware/software they used to. I no longer hold much hope that will happen.

If you have an S3, just stick with it.


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## GmanTiVo (Mar 9, 2003)

uw69 said:


> I still think the original series 3 with OLED screen is the best DVR Tivo has ever made. I have never used a premiere and have never been tempted to. The series 3 just works.


+1

I may even try to pick up another S3 on ebay soon and then add a 2TB drive..... create another 25 Season Passes and let it rip 

Gman


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Teeps said:


> In the past I have written "defective" on the unit and the box; so best buy doesn't try to resell as open box unit.


why would you do that? Doesn't sound like anything more than the usual premiere complaints. in this case you might as well just take a sharpy to the tv department and write on every tivo box if you think the current premier software is so buggy as to be unusable.

All you are doing is wasting someone's money (not sure if tivo or best buy) to have the unit rebuild when it's going to be exactly the same. And no consumer gets the discount of buying the open box.


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## Rich_Guy (Sep 30, 2011)

MichaelK said:


> why would you do that? Doesn't sound like anything more than the usual premiere complaints. in this case you might as well just take a sharpy to the tv department and write on every tivo box if you think the current premier software is so buggy as to be unusable.
> 
> All you are doing is wasting someone's money (not sure if tivo or best buy) to have the unit rebuild when it's going to be exactly the same. And no consumer gets the discount of buying the open box.


I am not sure what problems people are having with Premiere models but I am new to Tivo purchasing a new Tivo Premiere XL just a few weeks ago. My new Tivo has performed perfectly with no problems whatsoever. It has not had even the slightest hiccup of a problem. Someone mentioned remote problems, I do not use the Tivo remote at all and only use my URC MX-850 to control my system. Anyway I have not experienced any problems at all.


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## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

GmanTiVo said:


> +1
> 
> I may even try to pick up another S3 on ebay soon and then add a 2TB drive..... create another 25 Season Passes and let it rip
> 
> Gman


Someone said the S3 won't take a 2TB. Let us know how you make out...


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## robin50 (Feb 15, 2007)

Soapm said:


> Someone said the S3 won't take a 2TB. Let us know how you make out...


The S3 can indeed use a 2 TB drive. I am staring at six Series3 units right now, each sporting a 2 TB drive. Such drives are available on eBay right now for ~$115.


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## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

robin50 said:


> The S3 can indeed use a 2 TB drive. I am staring at six Series3 units right now, each sporting a 2 TB drive. Such drives are available on eBay right now for ~$115.


Good to know...


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## GmanTiVo (Mar 9, 2003)

Soapm said:


> Someone said the S3 won't take a 2TB. Let us know how you make out...


Yes they do. I purchased one on eBay as well for approx $140 all in from Stephan790 (search for Western Digital AVGP WD20EURS). The non AVGP models can be had for $25 less.

Gman


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

PatMcNJ said:


> I installed the 2 cablecards myself (cablevision no longer rolls out for this). And we are back in business! I LOVE my Series 3!!


Another advantage to the Premier is that you would only need 1 cablecard, not 2 (assuming your cable company uses M cards, which most do). If you're paying for your cablecards, this could save you some money. The TivoHD also only needs 1.


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## PatMcNJ (May 22, 2006)

Cable cards are $2 month for me, so it is only an extra $24/year. 

I had returned my original single stream cards, before I realized I would be an idiot not to try and repair my Series 3 with lifetime service. So when I got the new hard drive, I went back in to get 2 cards. They only had the multi cards and I had to convince them that I WAS sure I needed 2 of them (from reading this board, I knew I could use either 2 single streams or 2 multi). Again when I called to have them paired to my account during the install, Cablevision was confused. I kept saying, this is an OLD Series 3, needs 2 cards, they go in the back, etc. 

But it is all good now. I just have to return my 3rd cable card that I had in my buggy Premier.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

While you can buy a pre-configured 2TB drive for an S3 OLED, there is no current way to DIY.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

I'm happy for those with well functioning Premieres, and the ONLY premier I would definitely buy would be the Elite, but it won't support OTA, so no go here.

The S3's get the job done, and get it don well. I have ethernet for my transfer between TiVo's so even HD content transfer VERY fast compared to the nightmare of wireless.

Too many bugs reported and tirades about the Premiere right now for me to get one, although the OTA only promotional rate of $9.99 could get me to get one if I can get the box cheap enough. Also, too many folks using the OLD S3 interface due to the Premier HD interface either not working well or even lacking the Kid's option.

In short, for me NO compelling reason to get a Premiere compared to my very well functioning and even fancier S3's and HDXL. Now the quad tuner is a very compelling reason to upgrade (save money on CableCards and even boxes is not lifetime), but no OTA support means no sale for me. Too bad. I really would have gotten an Elite.

I'll wait to see if there is ever a Series 5 and evaluate a change then, IF TiVo even plans any more boxes for retail subscribers such as us. We'll have to see.


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## uw69 (Jan 25, 2001)

I've replace power supplies and hard drives to keep my wonderful series 3 lifetime units going. Someday there will be an issue not easily solved and that's where a tough decision comes.

Buy another series 3 and lifetime it, or go with newer hardware and spend the lifetime money on it.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

The Premiere is better but not so much for my needs that I would sell a TiVoHD with lifetime and pay the difference to upgrade to the Premiere. As long as I can keep mine running, I am going to do just that and won't pick up a Premiere.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I've still got an S3 with two S-cards. I bought lifetime for it when my 3-year prepaid sub ran out and they offered me the $99 upgrade. The S3 still does everything I need it to do so I have no desire to switch to either a Premiere or an Elite. Besides, I'm still grandfathered in under the old FIOS cablecard fee of $2.99 apiece so I'd only be saving myself $2 a month. Even with lifetime on my S3 I couldn't get enough out of it to cover the cost of a new Tivo with lifetime. In fact, it's basically just being used as an HD tuner for a Sony 43" LCDTV. I don't recall the last time I scheduled anything new to record with it. I'd be tempted to sell it but then I'd have to rent an HD set-top box from Verizon @ $10 a month, which is $4 more than I'm paying now for the two cablecards.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

uw69 said:


> I still think the original series 3 with OLED screen is the best DVR Tivo has ever made.


I used to feel the same way as you. Then I actually got a Premiere and have now totally warmed up to it. I use the SDUI because that's what I'm used to from my old Series 3. And while I love the OLED screen on my Series 3, I never was a fan of the silver trim on the front of the box. At least that silver strim was real metal and not painted plastic, like most consumer electronics are now a days. But, I have to say that I really like the matte black look of my new Premiere's box. It's sits hardly noticeable under my TV, just as it should. Plus, it's so much better that it uses one cablecard, instead of two. I also have a Tivo HD, but the aesthetics of that box never really appealed to me. To me it looks butt ugly, so maybe I'll sell it and get another Premiere.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Well I have a Series 3 HD, TiVo HD, & Premiere. All are lifetime, the TiVo HD & Premiere have 2TB drives and the Series 3 HD has the original drive with an external 1TB. 

I like all of my units they all work well except it is clear the Series 3 HD doesn't like the external drive, if you touch anything it reboots and it normally takes 2-3 tries until it can find the external drive again. At some point a I will buy a 2TB upgrade for it off ebay. 

I am of the opinion that while I think the Premiere is better than both the Series 3 HD and TiVo HD, I don't think it is enough better to replace a working Series 3 HD or TiVo HD. However for those with digital cable (I am OTA only) the Elite might temped me as it could replace 2 other HD DVRs. It just really depends on how many tuners you want and how many TVs you want a DVR connect to.


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## wackymann (Sep 22, 2006)

I've had the original Series 3 since it first came out (paid $800 for it!). It is still going strong, currently running with a 2 year old 1 TB drive. This past weekend it finally got ousted from its place of prominence in our living room, and was replaced by our new Premiere Elite. I have to say that I LOVE the 4 tuners. Last night was the first time we've had all 4 tuners recording at once, all while watching another recorded program. So far it has been flawless. I did have to buy a $12 clock from Target to replace the front panel OLED clock. It's one of those Sony dream machine auto-set clocks, and (amazingly) was only like 10 seconds off from the TiVo clock right when I plugged it in, so I'm happy with that. I hate clocks that drift and need resetting all the time. It even adjusts for DST automagically.


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## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

wackymann said:


> I've had the original Series 3 since it first came out (paid $800 for it!). It is still going strong, currently running with a 2 year old 1 TB drive. This past weekend it finally got ousted from its place of prominence in our living room, and was replaced by our new Premiere Elite. I have to say that I LOVE the 4 tuners. Last night was the first time we've had all 4 tuners recording at once, all while watching another recorded program. So far it has been flawless. I did have to buy a $12 clock from Target to replace the front panel OLED clock. It's one of those Sony dream machine auto-set clocks, and (amazingly) was only like 10 seconds off from the TiVo clock right when I plugged it in, so I'm happy with that. I hate clocks that drift and need resetting all the time. It even adjusts for DST automagically.


I should go look for one of those, since trading in my cable box for a TivoHD I have been lacking time...


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

wackymann said:


> I have to say that I LOVE the 4 tuners.


I'd love the 4 tuners as well, but I just can't get myself to buy an Elite because of its lack of OTA. I want the option of being able to drop my Cable TV bill down the road.


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## Ed_Hunt (Jan 2, 2004)

I have three S-3s and a Premier as well as an S-2 still in service and they all work just as they should. People reading this forum trying to decide about buying a Premier or anything else for that matter should remember that most often only people that are having problems will be the ones posting here. If you consider the number of units sold opposed to the number of complaints you will find all of the Tivo series are well built and work as they should. Anytime you have an assembly line there are going to be glitches, not every unit gets tested, some slip through. The bottom line for me is they work as they should and have since my first 14 hour Philips back in the '90s. I have used other DVRs', Replay and Cable as well as my Computer and I always come back to Tivo. I just think its the best one out there.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

If you love four tuners then how would you feel about twelve? I've got two Ceton InfiniTV4 quad cablecard tuners and two Hauppauge HVR-2250 dual ATSC tuners in my HTPC for a total of eight digital cable tuners and four ATSC tuners. I performed a test and was able to record on all twelve tuners simultaneously while playing back a 13th recording with absolutely no glitches.

I originally set up the HTPC to use it for OTA recording when I had DirecTV. DirecTV doesn't even come close to providing all local channels in any given market. I get over 40 OTA channels between Baltimore and D.C. (includes sub-channels) and DirecTV would only provide a partial listing for the Baltimore market (no D.C. or sub-channels).

I switched to FIOS over 4-1/2 years ago, but I still used the HTPC for OTA recordings to supplement my two Tivo S3's. When the Ceton tuners came out I jumped on it and ordered one right away. It took five months to get it, but it was well worth the wait. I picked up a 2nd InfiniTV4 a couple of months ago when they had the price drop to $299. As a result, my remaining S3 is all but retired to TV watching in the family room.


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## MeInDallas (Jul 31, 2011)

Resist said:


> I'd love the 4 tuners as well, but I just can't get myself to buy an Elite because of its lack of OTA. I want the option of being able to drop my Cable TV bill down the road.


+1 :up:

Dont wanna be tied to cable for the life of the DVR, especially now that OTA HD is coming out so much in my area.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

That's what I love about an HTPC. You can build it to work with OTA, digital cable, or both. You can even get it to work with satellite TV if you don't mind recording via component video. You can start off with one or two tuners and add more as your need and/or budget permits. The initial hardware costs aren't much more than buying a Premiere with lifetime (approx $600). The real savings begins when you start adding in more tuners because there's no service fees attached.


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## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

mr.unnatural said:


> If you love four tuners then how would you feel about twelve? I've got two Ceton InfiniTV4 quad cablecard tuners and two Hauppauge HVR-2250 dual ATSC tuners in my HTPC for a total of eight digital cable tuners and four ATSC tuners. *I performed a test and was able to record on all twelve tuners simultaneously while playing back a 13th recording with absolutely no glitches*..


Now that's unnatural...


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Soapm said:


> Now that's unnatural...


Not really. Maximum bitrate for an ATSC broadcast is 19.4 mbps, but are usually about half that rate. Digital cable broadcast bitrates can theoretically be twice that rate but are generally about the same bitrate as OTA broadcasts. The maximum throughput of an SATAII hard drive is 300 mbps. Thirteen data streams at about 10 mbps is still less than half the maximum throughput for the hard drive. Even at the full bitrate of 19.4 mbps, the throughput of the drive should theoretically still be able to handle that amount of data transfer. The only real issue is seek times and the fact that the drive is trying to handle thirteen separate streams simultaneously.


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## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

mr.unnatural said:


> Not really. Maximum bitrate for an ATSC broadcast is 19.4 mbps, but are usually about half that rate. Digital cable broadcast bitrates can theoretically be twice that rate but are generally about the same bitrate as OTA broadcasts. The maximum throughput of an SATAII hard drive is 300 mbps. Thirteen data streams at about 10 mbps is still less than half the maximum throughput for the hard drive. Even at the full bitrate of 19.4 mbps, the throughput of the drive should theoretically still be able to handle that amount of data transfer. The only real issue is seek times and the fact that the drive is trying to handle thirteen separate streams simultaneously.


Well it's yours, and you are unnatural so that makes it unnaturals...

And like Oak Express, "that's not natural"...


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## ltxi (Feb 14, 2010)

PatMcNJ said:


> I am so grateful to these forums...... I have the original Series 3 with Lifetime service. It stopped working last week. I sort of blanked out and bought a new Premier with Lifetime service, about $500 in total. Then I realized, what am I doing, that S3 has lifetime, I could either try to fix it or even sell it broken. I researched, and it sounded like I just needed a new hard drive, so I ordered one from Weaknees.
> 
> Meanwhile, I was working with the new Premier. OMG we all hated it. Ok, minor issues of missing the clock and the names of shows recording on the front panel..... then the Premier began freezing up, and had to be unplugged to get it moving again. After reading the forums here, I learned it is a problem with the Premier not responding to the remote commands, not that the Tivo is actually freezing up. Well, same result. (At least the S3 has buttons on the front so you can run it without a remote if you had to!)
> 
> ...


Sounds perfectly sane to me. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. (Or in your case, fix it) I was perfectly happy with my S2s until Comcast rammed digital down my throat. We now have two HDXLs and a PXL (plus an 11 year old Sony 2000) up and running almost(!) as well as our previous setup but it was a real hassle. I'd love to have the advantages of a four tuner, 2TB Elite, but I'm not at all sure the pain would be worth it.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

ltxi said:


> I was perfectly happy with my S2s until Comcast rammed digital down my throat.


Without digital we wouldn't have HDTV. After living with HDTV for quite some time now, I can't imagine ever going back to standard def TV for everything I watch. For the first time I can get OTA reception with an antenna that far surpasses anything I can get with a paid subscription to cable or FIOS or satellite TV. Going digital uses far less bandwidth than crappy old analog TV.

It's called evolution. You may have been happy with your S2s, but I'll bet you're enjoying your Tivo HDs even more. Comcast didn't ram anything down your throat. It was a worldwide revolution against inferior broadcast TV and a technology that's over 60 years old. I'd say it was more than overdue, wouldn't you? There's already talk about Ultra HDTV being introduced around 2015.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

lpwcomp said:


> While you can buy a pre-configured 2TB drive for an S3 OLED, there is no current way to DIY.



If someone else can do it for me, why can't I do it myself?


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> If someone else can do it for me, why can't I do it myself?


I should have said there is no _known_ way to DIY.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

lpwcomp said:


> I should have said there is no _known_ way to DIY.


That doesn't change anything. If I someone else can do it, it can be done, so why can't I do it myself? Does this include the HD units?
I've been upgrading Tivos for years, but I'm out of the loop on S3 Tivos. I went from S2 to a Premiere that I have upgraded to 2TB. I now have a Tivo HD that I got used for $30 that I'm using unsub'd only for it's digital OTA tuner and 30 minute buffer but may sub it at some point and then I'd need to upgrade it.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

scandia101 said:


> That doesn't change anything. If I someone else can do it, it can be done, so why can't I do it myself? Does this include the HD units?
> I've been upgrading Tivos for years, but I'm out of the loop on S3 Tivos. I went from S2 to a Premiere that I have upgraded to 2TB. I now have a Tivo HD that I got used for $30 that I'm using unsub'd only for it's digital OTA tuner and 30 minute buffer but may sub it at some point and then I'd need to upgrade it.


OK, let's back up a bit. If you modify an S3 TiVo, it can support a 2T drive using partitions greater than 1.1T. Someone out there has also figured out a way to allow 2T drives to be used on an unmodified TiVo, and offers to upgrade S3 units for a fee. Obviously, he knows how, but he isn't talking, for equally obvious reasons. There are several possibilities, but the most likely are he has found a way to successfully get more than 16 partitions on an Apple partition map, or else he has learned enough about the MFS file system to be able to expand the existing partitions to the full 1.1T limit imposed by the kernel used on the stock S3. That, however relates to the original S3, not the THD line.

There is a utility out there, known as jmfs, which will upgrade a Premier to 2T drives. It also works, with a couple of minor limitations, on an un-modified THD. I have not used it myself, but I gather it is simple to use.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

thomb said:


> UNLESS you need to hack it. Since the Premiere Lacks the ability to remove CCI, it is a show stopper for our household.


Agreed, not to mention getting rid of the pause ads, telnet, ftp, ntp, TiVoWebPlus, etc. There are even people out there who have implemented Caller ID. (Barf!!!!!)

In my estimation, anyone who wants to transfer shows off their TiVo and is served by a CATV system that currently implements or may in the future implement maximal CCI byte deployment (that's all of them) is at this point in time ill-advised to purchase a Premier.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> That doesn't change anything. If I someone else can do it, it can be done, so why can't I do it myself? Does this include the HD units?
> I've been upgrading Tivos for years, but I'm out of the loop on S3 Tivos. I went from S2 to a Premiere that I have upgraded to 2TB. I now have a Tivo HD that I got used for $30 that I'm using unsub'd only for it's digital OTA tuner and 30 minute buffer but may sub it at some point and then I'd need to upgrade it.


If you can figure out how weaKnees and dvr_dude are doing it, then by all means feel free to DIY. I suspect it is more than just knowing enough about how MFS works.


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## GmanTiVo (Mar 9, 2003)

scandia101 said:


> That doesn't change anything. If I someone else can do it, it can be done, so why can't I do it myself? Does this include the HUD units?
> I've been upgrading Tivos for years, but I'm out of the loop on S3 Tivos. I went from S2 to a Premiere that I have upgraded to 2TB. I now have a Tivo HD that I got used for $30 that I'm using unsub'd only for it's digital OTA tuner and 30 minute buffer but may sub it at some point and then I'd need to upgrade it.


I may be wrong but why are you upset?

It seems that you have been able to upgrade your past Tivos due to the generosity of others "collaborating on" and "sharing" their software applications with everyone in the Tivo community.

Maybe none of the aforementioned code writers have seen the need to or wanted to invest the time necessary into cracking the S3 file size limitation, leaving the ones who have, to make a living off of their expertise (Weakness, stphan790, dvr_dude, etc).

I don't think it is much of price to pay if you want a +1TB HD, especially since they can be had for anywhere between $20 to $100 over the bare HD cost..... and all you have to do is insert the shipped to you drive (15min. tops) and reboot.

Your other option is to learn LINUX yourself and crack the code yourself. Please remember to share with everyone your findings. 

Gman


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

GmanTiVo said:


> I may be wrong but why are you upset?


Hold your frakkin horses there buddy.
I asked a question to gain information that I didn't have. The first response I got to that question was nothing more than a repeat of the post that prompted my question in the first place, so I asked again. Somebody, lrhorer, has since answered with an appropriate explanation. There was no being upset. Where the F did you get that from?



> Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
> 
> Gman


fyp


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

lpwcomp said:


> If you can figure out how weaKnees and dvr_dude are doing it, then by all means feel free to DIY. I suspect it is more than just knowing enough about how MFS works.


Why even bother with this crap after a real answer to my question has already been given?
I didn't know there was someone out there keeping a secret and I don't know why you didn't just say that when I asked rather than just repeating yourself.


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## GmanTiVo (Mar 9, 2003)

scandia101 said:


> Hold your frakkin horses there buddy.
> I asked a question to gain information that I didn't have. The first response I got to that question was nothing more than a repeat of the post that prompted my question in the first place, so I asked again. Somebody, lrhorer, has since answered with an appropriate explanation. There was no being upset. Where the* F *did you get that from?


Then I was wrong, and apologize for misunderstanding your mood.

I should have picked up on your frustration in the 1st post and annoyance of not getting a straight answer in the second, rather than an implied sense of stubborn entitlement that seemed to jump out of your words in both.

 Mea Culpa !!! 



scandia101 said:


> fyp


 now now my friend...... play nice, take a chill pill and don't get your painties all ruffled up, will ya. And btw, no need to drop the "F" around  :down:, I'd expect more from a distinguished forum participant .

_melori discipulorum erudi, unt non imbecilli erunt _


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

GmanTiVo said:


> now now my friend...... play nice, take a chill pill and don't get your painties all ruffled up, will ya. And btw, no need to drop the "F" around  :down:, I'd expect more from a distinguished forum participant .
> 
> _melori discipulorum erudi, unt non imbecilli erunt _


Wtf are painties?


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## RickL66 (May 13, 2007)

scandia101 said:


> That doesn't change anything. If I someone else can do it, it can be done, so why can't I do it myself? Does this include the HD units?
> I've been upgrading Tivos for years, but I'm out of the loop on S3 Tivos. I went from S2 to a Premiere that I have upgraded to 2TB. I now have a Tivo HD that I got used for $30 that I'm using unsub'd only for it's digital OTA tuner and 30 minute buffer but may sub it at some point and then I'd need to upgrade it.


On another forum, someone mentioned that he got a bare 2TB drive, connected his original TiVo drive and the new 2TB drive, used MSFLive to partition the new drive. Then when he was done, he took out the original drive, leaving the new 2TB drive in, rebooting back into MSFLive and "supersized" the 2TB drive... then he was able to get the full 318 hours that was expected from the 2TB drive. I have not tried it myself, but just a FYI if you or anyone wants to give this a shot.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> Wtf are painties?


Painted on panties. Look great and fit great!


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## headless chicken (Oct 8, 2004)

Count me in on the Series3 love, while reviling the Premiere. I got tempted and bought the XL4 for its quad-tuner capacity because I want to record 4 broadcast stations Tuesday nights between 9 and 10pm. I also purchased Lifetime subscription for the unit. Now I have serious buyer's remorse. Yes, it records 300 HD hours over my 157 (with upgraded 1TB internal drive), but is it really worth it? I really miss having the OLED display with the clock and names of shows recording. The Premiere's front panel display with the circles is silly and I hate that damn green power light, but the only alternative is to have no lights displaying either...argh! 

I'm seriously thinking of returning my XL4. However, I'd be out around $40 for total shipping costs AND it would cost an extra $48/yr for the 2 cable cards the Series3 requires for only half the channel recording capacity versus the XL4....what to do, what to do?!


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## Teeps (Aug 16, 2001)

headless chicken said:


> I really miss having the OLED display with the clock and names of shows recording. The Premiere's front panel display with the circles is silly and I hate that damn green power light, but the only alternative is to have no lights displaying either...argh!


Black magic marker can dim those lights...

I've been on the fence regarding purchase of XL4 for nearly a year...
The bogus display panel being one of my reasons too.


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## synch22 (Dec 30, 2003)

original adopter of S3 as well $800 or so, and still going strong. Also have the lifetime HD, hate the look as others have said. The 4 tuners is tempting but cant justify it yet at this point. We do have a tv thats tivoless, that we have said plenty of times somethings missing but for the moment still holding out.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

For the life of me, I fail to understand why the OLED is that big of a deal. I would much rather have 4 tuners and tons of internal storage. There are other reasons why the Premiere sucks compared to an S3, but the display is not high on the list IMO.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

slowbiscuit said:


> For the life of me, I fail to understand why the OLED is that big of a deal. I would much rather have 4 tuners and tons of internal storage. There are other reasons why the Premiere sucks compared to an S3, but the display is not high on the list IMO.


Because it's really nice to walk past the TiVo and see what's recording without having to turn on the TV. I'm very happy with my well endowed storage wise S3 and wouldn't trade it in for a box that doesn't have the OLED front panel or the ability to record OTA, which has saved my butt on occasion. Yea, I long for 4 tuners, but not at the cost of giving up the S3 advantages.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

But does it really matter though, to know what's recording? I think not - you're going to see it when you turn on the TV to watch something anyway.

It's just not that big of a feature to give up compared to everything else.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

slowbiscuit said:


> But does it really matter though, to know what's recording? I think not - you're going to see it when you turn on the TV to watch something anyway.
> 
> It's just not that big of a feature to give up compared to everything else.


The reality is what "matters" is fairly personal. Many people on these forums care about stuff that makes no sense to me.

I have an original Series 3, TiVo HD, & Premiere and could care less what any of the cases look like I don't spend my time look at my AV equipment, others seem to fixate on it. Same is true for the SD versus the HD menus I want a menu that is fast, easy to use, and gets what I want done with the least amount of effort while others seem to worry about how the menu looks as much as or more than how they work.

I don't worry about it one way or the other, I figure everyone gets to want what they want and place value on stuff the way they want to. I also understand that no matter what TiVo does or offers someone is going to love it and someone is going to hate it.


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## headless chicken (Oct 8, 2004)

robin50 said:


> The S3 can indeed use a 2 TB drive. I am staring at six Series3 units right now, each sporting a 2 TB drive. Such drives are available on eBay right now for ~$115.


The problem is once you upgrade the drive you lose all your personalized and stored info like season passes, wishlist and ratings, right? Recorded programs can be transferred from one drive to another easily enough but it's the other settings that are a pain in the ass.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

headless chicken said:


> The problem is once you upgrade the drive you lose all your personalized and stored info like season passes, wishlist and ratings, right? Recorded programs can be transferred from one drive to another easily enough but it's the other settings that are a pain in the ass.


Think of it as incentive to learn to roll your own.


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## Teeps (Aug 16, 2001)

headless chicken said:


> The problem is once you upgrade the drive you lose all your personalized and stored info like season passes, wishlist and ratings, right?


Yes, typically all is lost when changing drive size.
However, it can be done... As, DVR_Dude offers that service when purchasing an upgrade drive from him.
If I remember it was about $50. 
I chose not to use that service because of turn around time, again if I remember, about 10 days.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Teeps said:


> Yes, typically all is lost when changing drive size.


It has nothing to do with changing drive size. It is the difference between buying a pre-configured drive vs. a DIY solution.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

I thought the season pass manager on tivo.com would allow you to copy season passes from one tivo to another.


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## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

shwru980r said:


> I thought the season pass manager on tivo.com would allow you to copy season passes from one tivo to another.


Yes it does, but it doesn't let you transfer to the same tivo.

For example, I just replaced my tivo HDs 5 year old upgraded 1TB drive.

I checked tivo.com's season pass manager and all my current season passes were there.

I then got a replacement drive, and had to use the old original drive's image as I couldn't get the image on the failing drive to boot (despite a supposed successful image copy).

After the first connection, all my current season passes got replaced with 5 year old season passes.

The only way I can think to leverage the tivo.com season pass manager to preserve your existing season passes is to have a 2nd tivo on your account. Transfer all the season passes to that other tivo (conflicts or not)... then once you replace the drive and you see the season passes blown out on tivo.com, transfer them all back.

Does that make sense? I think it'd work.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

blacknoi said:


> Yes it does, but it doesn't let you transfer to the same tivo.
> 
> For example, I just replaced my tivo HDs 5 year old upgraded 1TB drive.
> 
> ...


OK, yes, that makes sense. Thanks for explaining it. I wouldn't have known it. It might make sense to find a cheap unsubscribed Tivo HD on craig's list to keep around for this purpose. Activate it, transfer season passes, repair the broken Tivo, transfer the season passes to the repaired tivo, then cancel the subscription on the second tivo.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

> UNLESS you need to hack it. Since the Premiere Lacks the ability to remove CCI


Ok, what is CCI and why is a issue?


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

videobruce said:


> Ok, what is CCI and why is a issue?


Wikipedia to the rescue:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_Control_Information
It's an issue because unless it's set to 0x00 (no copy protection) you can't transfer a copy to your PC, or do MRV with a Series 3 (S3 or HD). Time Warner sets it to non zero on all channels except copies of local broadcast stations, which is prevented by law. Some other cable cos also copy protect and the trend is in that direction. You can see the value of the CCI Byte in DVR Diagnostics (for the currently tuned channels). All this is in the context of digital cable signals (i.e., if you're using a CableCARD). Analog signals have another copy protection scheme about which I know nothing.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

More strangleholds through pure greed.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

dlfl said:


> Analog signals have another copy protection scheme about which I know nothing.


Analog stations use a technology invented by Macrovision. Basically they insert a pattern into the VBI portion of the signal (the part that carries the captions) that TiVo picks up on and then parses to get the protection level. It's very similar to the CCI byte in the CableCARD standard. Techniclly TiVo had no legal obligation to obey these flags, but TiVo was licensing other technologies from Macrovision at the time and Macrovision used those licenses as leverage to force TiVo to obey their flags. I remember when it first came out NBC ran a trial where they flagged an episode of Friends so it could only be retained on the TiVo for 90 minutes. Luckily TiVo warned us about it so we were prepared, but there were a LOT of people pissed off about it. After that no one ever used that flag intentionally for anything except PPV. However there were a few instances of flase positives that still caused people problems.

Dan


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## scottsh (Apr 14, 2003)

Thanks so much for this thread - I was thinking about upgrading to get the HDUI and perhaps the streaming to iPad but now I'm going to stick with my S3. Tivos are awesome - what other computer product have you gotten this much life out of?


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## Blahman (Mar 4, 2002)

Just wanted to thank this thread along with the experience of one of my co-workers with the Premiere. Got me to hunt down some more S3 TCD648s. For cheap I managed to get my hands on 2 TCD648250s one with lifetime + 1TB already, the other with a 500GB (monthly) both fully operational. So, bedroom gets a new addition and I have an entire spare for parts to keep the 3 Lifetime units going.


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## DenisB (Jan 18, 2013)

I have a Series 3 and I'm trying to get suggestions for a non-TiVo USB adaptor that works. Any suggestions. Thanks.


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## Teeps (Aug 16, 2001)

I've had success with Linksys and Belkin wireless "g" USB adapters.
I have a S3 OLED


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

DenisB said:


> I have a Series 3 and I'm trying to get suggestions for a non-TiVo USB adaptor that works. Any suggestions. Thanks.


Assuming you mean a wireless one instead of something that's USB plug on one end and RJ-45 jack on the other, I think TiVo still has an old leftover list somewhere of adapters that worked with the S2s, which is as close as you're going to get to an "official" list of what to use with an S3, and I wouldn't consider it guaranteed that working with an S2 means working with an S3.

And of course all of them are "G" and not "N".

Do you have a specific reason for wanting to avoid the TiVo brand "G" adapter, which puts less load on the TiVo's CPU than the others?

Have you considerd plugging that S3 into a WRT54G running DD-WRT and set up as a wireless bridge?


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## Js12265 (Apr 26, 2017)

Teeps said:


> Black magic marker can dim those lights...
> 
> I've been on the fence regarding purchase of XL4 for nearly a year...
> The bogus display panel being one of my reasons too.


The front lights can be turned off in settings.


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