# Explain Mini, Please?



## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

I currently have a 4-Tuner Roamio with a Comcast cable card in my living room, which is connected wirelessly to my router in my office.

In my office, I have a small, old TV with a Comcast cable box attached (no DVR). I really only watch live TV when I'm in there since that's all I have. I find I really miss the "trick" features like pausing and rewinding and I'd probably occasionally want to watch a recorded show.

I don't really need more tuners to record so I am guessing that what would help would be a Mini. I have done some reading on this but I do have a few questions though:

1. Do I connect it wirelessly to my router, which is across the room? I'd prefer no wires but I can run them if I have to.

2. Does it connect wirelessly to my Roamio?

3. Does it ALWAYS have control of one of the four tuners in my Roamio? What if four things are scheduled to record? Can I still just watch live TV in my office if the Roamio is using all four tuners?

I might have other questions but this is a good start. Thanks!!!


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

1. No
2. No
3. No, No, No, but you could watch any of the 4 things being recorded or any other recording. This would only be an instant behind live.

Since you apparently have coax in each room, you need to connect your Roamio and Mini via Moca. You'll have to buy one Moca adapter to make this work, but no additional wiring is required.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

mdavej said:


> Since you apparently have coax in each room, you need to connect your Roamio and Mini via Moca. You'll have to buy one Moca adapter to make this work, but no additional wiring is required.


Actually, he'll probably need 2 MoCA adapters, 1 at the 4-tuner Roamio and 1 at the router. TiVo sells a 2-pack of MoCA adapters on their website for $90.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Actually, he'll probably need 2 MoCA adapters, 1 at the 4-tuner Roamio and 1 at the router. TiVo sells a 2-pack of MoCA adapters on their website for $90.


Hi, 
If you need 2 adapters, Meritline has a pair of MoCA 1.1 adapters on sale right now for $50. These work fine but they are not MoCA certified meaning there is no configuration utility to set either encryption or manual channel selection. They will detect and use whatever channel is being used on your Tivos and for the price do a comparable job to the more expensive units.
http://www.meritline.com/mygica-coma-cable-kit---p-68646.aspx


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

... don't forget the *MoCA filter* for your home's cable point-of-entry (PoE)! (also available from *TiVo.com*, and elsewhere; likely free from your cable provider, if pushed)

---

More background/info...

BigJimOutlaw's "Setting up a MoCA network for TiVo" thread, here on TCF (initial post is key reading; delve further if curious)

TiVo's newer "What is MoCA?" page
TiVo's older "What is MoCA?" page
TiVo's "How to connect your TiVo box to your network and the Internet" page
TiVo Support 'Moca Troubleshooting' document

MoCA Blog FAQ


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

You already said you could connect the mini to your router via wired ethernet. Is there any way you could connect the Roamio via wired ethernet? Sure would be nice to avoid buying moca adapters and POE filters.

<CRASS BRAGGING>When we had our home built 16 years ago I had four one inch plastic pipes installed -- two from basement to first floor, and two from basement to 2nd floor -- additional cost: $75. Some of the best money I've ever spent!</CRASS BRAGGING>


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

Has anyone attempted using Mini with Powerline Ethernet adapters? My gut says it's probably not viable, but I had to ask.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Saturn_V said:


> Has anyone attempted using Mini with Powerline Ethernet adapters? My gut says it's probably not viable, but I had to ask.


It has been done with some success and some not so much. I can speculate it might be related to your wiring. There are 61 threads in this forum with "powerline" in them.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

dlfl said:


> You already said you could connect the mini to your router via wired ethernet. Is there any way you could connect the Roamio via wired ethernet? Sure would be nice to avoid buying moca adapters and POE filters....


No, it's really not possible here.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

Thanks, all. I'll have to read about what moca is. I guess I now have more questions than I started with.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Hot4Bo said:


> Thanks, all. I'll have to read about what moca is. I guess I now have more questions than I started with.


MoCA is really a very simple networking standard. It works over the coax cable already in your home at higher frequencies than the cable company signal uses, so they can coexist together without causing any interference with each other. The Mini actually has MoCA built in, so it doesn't need any adapter. Unfortunately, the 4-tuner Roamio doesn't have MoCA built in, which is why the Roamio would need an adapter.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tarheelblue32 said:


> MoCA is really a very simple networking standard. It works over the coax cable already in your home at higher frequencies than the cable company signal uses, so they can coexist together without causing any interference with each other. The Mini actually has MoCA built in, so it doesn't need any adapter. Unfortunately, the 4-tuner Roamio doesn't have MoCA built in, which is why the Roamio would need an adapter.


Also, imagine what you'd have to do if your router (I'm making an assumption, here) didn't have Wi-Fi built-in. You'd have to install a separate wireless access point and connect it to your router so that your Wi-Fi phones, tablets, laptops, etc could talk to and through your router to the Internet.

Well, same goes for MoCA. If your Internet gateway device (combo modem/router) doesn't have MoCA as a feature (and few do!), you'll need to add a separate device to act as the "access point" for MoCA networking, to bridge your MoCA device traffic over to your router's Ethernet LAN ports. So that's the other MoCA adapter you need to buy, the MoCA adapter that acts as the bridge between your MoCA/coax network devices and your router.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

OK, in reading all of this and elsewhere plus a conversation with a friend, I have a few more questions:

1. If I'm understanding this correctly, it seems that I need MoCa adapters at my Roamio (because it is a 4-tuner and doesn't have it built-in like the 6-tuner) and also at my router (not sure if there or at the Mini?).

2. I lose the ability to watch live TV on the TV in my office with the Mini on it if all 4 tuners on the Roamio are busy recording. That's very rare in my house but is it true?

3. I guess related to question #2 - What happens to the cable box on that TV? Does it go away altogether? Does the Mini take its place and is only an extension of the Roamio and not a viable TV on its own anymore?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

1. Yes, one at the Roamio and another at your router (or some switch that ultimately connects to it). The idea is one needs to be connected to both your coax and your router.

2. Techinically yes. But you can watch any of the 4 things the Roamio is recording. So while not live, only a few milliseconds behind live.

3. You don't need any cable boxes anymore. But you could keep one if you think live tv with all 4 tuners in use is going to be an issue. It won't do any harm. I personally wouldn't want to pay for any cable boxes if I had Tivo. The Mini is a viable TV as long as one tuner is free. And it can watch any recording and all streaming services (Netflix, etc.) when all tuners are busy.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

I don't pay for the cable box. It's part of the HOA fees that my landlord pays. 

Are you saying that if I keep the cable box attached, I can still watch live TV on the TV that is connected to the Mini?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Hot4Bo said:


> I don't pay for the cable box. It's part of the HOA fees that my landlord pays.
> 
> Are you saying that if I keep the cable box attached, I can still watch live TV on the TV that is connected to the Mini?


Yeah you could use a 2-way splitter there and keep the cable box connected to that TV at the same time the Mini is connected to it. If all 4 tuners on the Roamio are busy, you also have the option to cancel a recording to free up a tuner to use for live TV on the Mini.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

OK, I think I have it now:

1. MoCa adapter between the router and the Mini. (Or maybe a splitter then to the Mini - other part of the splitter to the cable box since it's free anyway)

2. 2nd MoCa adapter connected to the Roamio.

I'm sorry to be so dense about this but I can't seem to completely wrap my head around it.

Bonus really stupid question: I understand that the MoCa is because you can't use wireless between the Roamio and the Mini but isn't MoCa itself wireless? Or am I still misunderstanding this?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Hot4Bo said:


> OK, I think I have it now:
> 
> 1. MoCa adapter between the router and the Mini. (Or maybe a splitter then to the Mini - other part of the splitter to the cable box since it's free anyway)
> 
> ...


MoCA shares the cable wire, like the way my cable TV shares the wire with my internet.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

Ohhhhh, I think I get that now. I should have gotten that way earlier today. I knew it was a really stupid question.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Hot4Bo said:


> Ohhhhh, I think I get that now. I should have gotten that way earlier today. I knew it was a really stupid question.


No stupid questions. Perhaps some stupid answers, but not on purpose.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Hot4Bo said:


> OK, I think I have it now:
> 
> 1. MoCa adapter between the router and the Mini. (Or maybe a splitter then to the Mini - other part of the splitter to the cable box since it's free anyway)


Still not quite right. Mini doesn't need a Moca adapter (it's already built in). But you do need a Moca adapter somewhere that is connected directly to both your coax and ethernet networks. That's how stuff on your coax network accesses the internet (and anything else on your LAN).

To have both your cable box and Mini on the same TV, just use a splitter as Tarheel said. There is no Moca in that room (unless your router just happens to be there). If your router is right next to your Mini, then don't connect your Mini to coax at all, just run an ethernet cable to it, and leave your cable box untouched.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

So if I can use a coax between the mini and the router, I do not need an adaptor there. I only need one between the coax and the Roamio? That would be good if I only need one.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Hot4Bo said:


> So if I can use a coax between the mini and the router, I do not need an adaptor there. I only need one between the coax and the Roamio? That would be good if I only need one.


If you meant to say ethernet between the mini and router, then yes, you are correct about the Mini and Roamio.

You still need a 2nd Moca adapter in the router room that bridges your coax network to your router. I missed that in my first post. The 2nd adapter has nothing to do with your Mini.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Hot4Bo said:


> So if I can use a coax between the mini and the router, I do not need an adaptor there. I only need one between the coax and the Roamio? That would be good if I only need one.


You're still going to need 2 MoCA adapters, unless you have one of the few routers on the market that has MoCA built in. The Roamio's internal WiFi is useless if you are using it with a Mini, so the only way for the Roamio and router to communicate with each other is over a wired connection, either MoCA or ethernet.

Now you could put the Roamio in the same room as the router and connect it to the router with an ethernet cable. Then you would only need 1 MoCA adapter at the router (again, unless your router has MoCA built in, in which case you would not need any adapters).


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Saturn_V said:


> Has anyone attempted using Mini with Powerline Ethernet adapters? My gut says it's probably not viable, but I had to ask.


Yes, I'm the unofficial powerline networking fangirl, my current house is set up with a pair of powerline adapters on the 2nd floor and the mini has never missed a beat.

I hooked my Dad's house up the same way, powerline adapter by the router to feed the house, then 1 powerline in each bedroom for their Tivo and a computer.

Both locations and my previous house have used powerline adapters and I've had zero issues ever, I'll even put my money where my mouth is and send hot4bo a pair of them for free since I have extras.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

Now I'm confused again. My router is in my office and the Roamio is in the living room. The Mini would be in my office and I could connect it with Ethernet to the router, I guess. So I do need 2 adapters - one at the router and one at the Roamio. Anything else?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Hot4Bo said:


> Now I'm confused again. My router is in my office and the Roamio is in the living room. The Mini would be in my office and I could connect it with Ethernet to the router, I guess. So I do need 2 adapters - one at the router and one at the Roamio. Anything else?


I wouldn't bother using ethernet from the router to the Mini if you are using MoCA adapters for the Roamio. The Mini's built-in MoCA is all the Mini needs. If you just use the Mini's built-in MoCA for the Mini rather than ethernet, then the Mini and Roamio will still be able to communicate with each other even if your router goes down.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Hot4Bo said:


> Now I'm confused again. My router is in my office and the Roamio is in the living room. The Mini would be in my office and I could connect it with Ethernet to the router, I guess. So I do need 2 adapters - one at the router and one at the Roamio. Anything else?


If the mini is in the office with the router then yes, you could just connect the mini to the router as long as the Roamio is connected to the network somehow, if it's wireless I'll defer to other as to if that works.

All that really matters is that the Roamio and Mini are on your home network, they can be MoCA, ethernet, powerline, or various combinations as long as both are on your network.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

Yes, Mini would be in the office with the router. Roamio is in the living room. It's connected to the cable modem/router (Motorola surfboard 6580) wirelessly now.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

dianebrat said:


> If the mini is in the office with the router then yes, you could just connect the mini to the router as long as the Roamio is connected to the network somehow, if it's wireless I'll defer to other as to if that works.


The Roamio's internal wireless won't work with a Mini. He certainly could use ethernet rather than MoCA for the Mini, but it would be no advantage over MoCA since the Mini already has it built in. If the location of the Mini makes it more convenient to plug it into the coax outlet, then do that; if the location of the Mini makes it more convenient to plug it into the router, then do that.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Hot4Bo said:


> Now I'm confused again. My router is in my office and the Roamio is in the living room. The Mini would be in my office and I could connect it with Ethernet to the router, I guess. So I do need 2 adapters - *one at the router *and one at the Roamio. Anything else?


Yes, that is correct. You need, first and foremost, one MoCA adapter to act as your MoCA "access point," creating your MoCA network on your coax lines and bridging your MoCA (coax networking) traffic over to your router. This 1st MoCA adapter, in your office, will need to be connected to your coax lines and to the LAN ports of your router. This means you'll either need to connect the MoCA adapter to the wall outlet in your office and then connect the modem to the "RF Out" port of the MoCA adapter; or... put a splitter on the coax line currently running to your modem and then connect the 2nd output of the splitter to the MoCA adapter.

*Example diagram for pass-through approach can be found here*, courtesy TiVo's "How to connect your TiVo box to your network and the Internet" web page. The splitter option would result in the coax connection at the "TV/STB Out" port of the MoCA adapter in the diagram being, instead, moved to an output of the splitter.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Hot4Bo said:


> My router is in my office and the Roamio is in the living room. The Mini would be in my office and I could connect it with Ethernet to the router, I guess. So I do need 2 adapters - one at the router and one at the Roamio. Anything else?


This is entirely correct. The *ONLY* previously mentioned component left out was a MoCA filter for your home's cable point-of-entry (PoE), installed on the input of your home's main splitter. The PoE MoCA filter will keep your MoCA traffic from getting out onto the neighborhood coax lines, and will strengthen your MoCA network by reflecting the MoCA signals back onto your lines.

For more info on a PoE MoCA filter, see the *"How can I secure my MoCA network and improve its performance?"* section of TiVo's "What is MoCA?" web page, here.

That's it. Set those bits up and your Roamio and Mini will be communicating over wired networking, as required by TiVo, with one doing so via Ethernet and the other via MoCA. Cake.

---
p.s. Now then... a tiny twist... echoing tarheelblue's suggestion, above: you can use Ethernet to connect your Mini for simplicity's sake; however, there are *benefits to connecting the Mini using its built-in MoCA capability*:

TiVo Multi-Room Streaming (MRV; i.e. streaming of recordings and Live TV) will be confined to your coax lines;
Given bullet #1, TiVo MRS will not be interrupted by a router outage or reboot, as it would if the Mini were connected via Ethernet through the router;
The Mini can communicate with the Roamio over MoCA(1.1) at up to 170Mbps, but would be limited to 100 Mbps via Ethernet (since the Mini's Ethernet port is Fast Ethernet, as are the Ethernet ports of the Roamio and, most likey, the MoCA adapter). Oops; I knew something didn't feel right about this last bit. This particular possible advantage is lost, of course, because the base Roamio doesn't have a built-in MoCA adapter, and so wired network communication with the base Roamio will always be limited to the 100 Mbps rate of the Roamio's Fast Ethernet port. The stricken text in this last bullet would only apply to a Mini communicating via MoCA with a TiVO DVR having built-in MoCA.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

Sorry in advance for trying, once again, to get this straight. This is what I think I know now from all this:

1. Living room - Coax from the wall to the MoCa adapter then coax from the adapter to the Roamio.

2. Office - Coax from the wall to the MoCa adapter then coax to the cable modem/router then coax to a splitter, if I want one, where one side goes to the Mini and one to the cable box. Otherwise, coax directly from the cable modem/router to the Mini.

Still not sure how or why I need a POE filter.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

In finding out that the Mini would have access to the router and the Roamio is wireless that changes the way I'd recommend connecting, I'd assumed the Roamio had a network connection.
It might still be a case of plug the Roamio into powerline and stop it from being wireless, plug the 2nd powerline into the router, and then also plug the Mini into the router.


I can also see a case being made for a SINGLE MoCA adapter being hooked to the Roamio and then connecting the Mini to the coax in the office, with the Roamio using wireless for internet connectivity, I'm sure there are other options I'm not evning thinking of. This is one of those cases where the layout of the network changes things dramatically.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Hot4Bo said:


> Still not sure how or why I need a POE filter.


If you're using MoCA in a cable environment you will ALWAYS need a POE filter on the line coming into the house to prevent your data signal from leaking out and the problems it creates for your MoCA network and to other users.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

I'm not sure where the cable actually comes into the house. Would I just put it at a place where the coax comes out of the wall?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Hot4Bo said:


> Sorry in advance for trying, once again, to get this straight. This is what I think I know now from all this:
> 
> 1. Living room - Coax from the wall to the MoCa adapter then coax from the adapter to the Roamio.
> 
> ...


1. Missing ethernet cable from Moca to Roamio

2. Missing ethernet cable from Moca to router. Too many coax connections. Coax from wall to Moca. Coax from Moca to splitter. One side to Modem, other side to cable box. Ethernet from router to Mini. If you did coax from wall to Mini instead or ethernet from router to Mini, you'd need another splitter at the wall.

I think you may be getting confused with some of the terms we're using. It's impossible to connect a router to a Mini using coax. Coax is screw on connector with a single wire sticking out of the middle. Ethernet cable, on the other hand looks like an extra wide phone cable with a clear rectangular end.

And what do you mean by modem/router. Are they not two different boxes?

The whole point of Moca is to convert coax to ethernet. So in all cases you plug both coax and ethernet into the Moca adapters.

I don't think there's any law that says you must have a POE filter, it's just a smart, considerate thing to do so it doesn't muck with your neighbor's cable signals and gives you more privacy.

You've never mentioned a tuning adapter, so I assume you don't have one. If you did, that complicates things a bit.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. I think we're fast approaching that. Take a look at some pictures of Moca adapters so you have a better idea of what we're talking about. Each has coax in, coax out and ethernet, all of which connect to something in your case.

The fact that everybody is telling you something different isn't helping. I say use Moca only for the Roamio. That requires one adapter at the Roamio and another at the router connected as I said. There are many other ways to do it, but I think what I proposed is the simplest, requiring the fewest coax splits.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

I have a Motorola cable modem/router gateway. One box. No tuning adapter. The Roamio has an M-card and the office now has a cable box.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

It would probably be best to print out the associated diagrams, to study, and then modify by hand if any changes are needed.



Hot4Bo said:


> *1. Living room* - Coax from the wall to the MoCa adapter then coax from the adapter to the Roamio.


Yes, this is a recommended way to connect those devices, as shown in *>>> this diagram <<<*, from TiVo's "How to connect your TiVo box to your network and the Internet" web page.

However, as you'll see from the diagram, you also need to interconnect the adapter's and Roamio's Ethernet ports, using a Cat5+ Ethernet cable.


Spoiler

















Hot4Bo said:


> *2. Office* - Coax from the wall to the MoCa adapter then coax to the cable modem/router then coax to a splitter, if I want one, where one side goes to the Mini and one to the cable box. Otherwise, coax directly from the cable modem/router to the Mini.


Again, for simplicity's sake, you can just let the Mini connect via Ethernet, for now.

Just use the *>>> diagram previously referenced <<<*, above, to connect the MoCA adapter to to your gateway (combo modem/router) -- though you won't have to worry about the single connection between the modem and router in the diagram, since it's just one device, in your case. Note that you *will* need to connect the MoCA adapter's Ethernet port to one of your gateway's Ethernet ports, per the diagram.


Spoiler















LATER, once you have everything working and want to convert your Mini to a MoCA connection, for whatever reason (you don't need one), you would put a splitter where the text "To cable outlet" is in the *above diagram* for your office setup.

The splitter's input would now connect to the wall outlet, with one output of the splitter connected to the MoCA adapter's coax input, and the other splitter output connected to your Mini.

You would then disconnect the Ethernet cable from the Mini and reconfigure the Mini to "Connect using MoCA."


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

tarheelblue32 said:


> MoCA is really a very simple networking standard.


MoCA is simple in that it tries to be "plug and play". Under the hood, MoCA technology is wonderfully complex and jumps through multiple hoops to ensure that the MoCA network achieves the maximum throughput allowed by whatever coax/splitters/etc. happen to be in play.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

snerd said:


> MoCA is simple in that it tries to be "plug and play". Under the hood, MoCA technology is wonderfully complex and jumps through multiple hoops to ensure that the MoCA network achieves the maximum throughput allowed by whatever coax/splitters/etc. happen to be in play.


I meant simple for the end user.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

I actually think I may have it now thanks to the spoilerized images above. One last question: 

If I choose to include my cable box, I would put a splitter between the wall cable outlet and the MoCa adapter with one side going to the adapter and one to the cable box, is that right?

Edited to add:

I realize I still need to know where a filter goes. I still don't get that.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

mdavej said:


> I don't think there's any law that says you must have a POE filter, it's just a smart, considerate thing to do so it doesn't muck with your neighbor's cable signals and gives you more privacy.


Bah, screw the neighbors 

I consider this a secondary reason for using a PoE filter (my brother doesn't use one, and hasn't had any complaints from the NSA people next door ). The main reason I use a PoE filter is because it helps ensure that your own MoCA devices get a strong signal. The difference can be 20dB or more, which is quite significant.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

Hot4Bo said:


> I actually think I may have it now thanks to the spoilerized images above. One last question:
> 
> If I choose to include my cable box, I would put a splitter between the wall cable outlet and the MoCa adapter with one side going to the adapter and one to the cable box, is that right?
> 
> ...


You can use a splitter as you descirbe, or you could run coax from the wall to the MoCA adapter, and run coax from the "TV/STB out" port of the MoCA adapter to the cable box.

The coax in your home should be configured in the form of a tree, with splitters creating the branches. The PoE filter usually goes at the "root" of that tree, on the input of the main splitter. In my case, there is a single coax coming in from outside the house, and that coax connects to the PoE filter which I've attached to the input of a 4-way splitter. One splitter output goes to my cable modem, one goes to my Roamio Plus, one goes to a MoCA adapter that connects to a TiVo Premiere downstairs, and the last goes directly to a TiVo Mini in the master bedroom. My Roamio Plus is next to my cable modem, so it creates the MoCA network.

One more nitpicky detail, if you don't connect anything to the "TV/STB out" port of your MoCA adapters, they should be capped with a little 75-ohm termination. Similarly, if you have unused coax wall ports, they should have 75-ohm terminations attached to prevent RF reflections from messing up the signals on the coax.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I meant simple for the end user.


Yup, I just wanted to elaborate in case the OP cares.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Hot4Bo said:


> Still not sure how or why I need a POE filter.


"Why?" ... See this TiVo link: https://www.tivo.com/assets/popups/popup_moca_poe.html

"How?" ... See this PDF document from TiVo: https://www.tivo.com/assets/pdfs/mytivo/POE_Instructions_Web.pdf


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Hot4Bo said:


> If I choose to include my cable box, I would put a splitter between the wall cable outlet and the MoCa adapter with one side going to the adapter and one to the cable box, is that right?


Yes, correct.

(There can be multiple ways to do things; what you suggest would work just fine.)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

> I can also see a case being made for a SINGLE MoCA adapter being hooked to the Roamio and then connecting the Mini to the coax in the office,...


OP, please don't be confused. If you want to use MoCA to connect your 4-tuner Roamio, you will *need*:

*1 MoCA adapter in office* (your MoCA "access point" bridge)
*1 MoCA adapter in living room* (to bridge Roamio's traffic via MoCA)
*1 "PoE" MoCA filter *(installed on input to 1st splitter relative to cable provider's point-of-entry; see previous post)
*? splitters* (however many splitters, if any, you may need to complete the connections for the above MoCA adapters; the splitters can be 2-way or 3-way, as needed, but should ideally be rated for frequencies up to 1675MHz or more)
... _plus_ ... however many *75ohm terminator caps *as you might need to terminate all your unused coax wall outlets, etc, per previous 'snerd' recommendation. This isn't a *requirement*, strictly, but something that would improve your MoCA network performance, though perhaps imperceptibly.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

I have a feeling that the "root" of the coax tree is in the attic, where I can't get to it.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Hot4Bo said:


> I have a feeling that the "root" of the coax tree is in the attic, where I can't get to it.


You can still fire-up your MoCA network and see if everything works, absent the "PoE" MoCA filter.

And you can contact your cable provider to let them know that they need to get one in place. The urgency depends on (1)) whether your MoCA network is working without the filter in place, and then (2) your concern about security/privacy.

Your provider should know where it needs to be installed; and I wouldn't think they should charge you, since they should be standard issue, nowadays, in the age of MoCA.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

The POE filter is somewhat optional. It certainly is best practice to install one, but your MoCA network will probably work fine without one. As far as your MoCA network escaping your house and causing problems for your neighbors, most of the time it probably won't, but installing the filter would help prevent that possibility.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

I really think I understand now and I want to thank everyone for putting up with my craziness about this today. I LOVE TCF!!!!!


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

dianebrat said:


> Yes, I'm the unofficial powerline networking fangirl, my current house is set up with a pair of powerline adapters on the 2nd floor and the mini has never missed a beat.


I was right with you in my enthusiasm for powerline for the past three years. But I've been trying to upgrade my adapters to something faster (I was still on HomePlug AV) and me and Powerline have had a falling out. It seemed the faster I went, the more unstable the connection was, and I went up to the 1200 Mbps adapters.

I think Powerline is still perfectly viable for SVOD streaming and browsing. But any type of "heavy lifting" applications like largefile transfers, TiVo tuner/program sharing, videoconferencing apps or streaming video games to living room TV; and I feel no version of Powerline will work, at least with my home's wiring.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Saturn_V said:


> I think Powerline is still perfectly viable for SVOD streaming and browsing. But any type of "heavy lifting" applications like largefile transfers, TiVo tuner/program sharing, videoconferencing apps or streaming video games to living room TV; and I feel no version of Powerline will work, at least with my home's wiring.


Yes, they are wiring dependent, FWIW my Mini has frequently been on a 200Mbps adapter and functioned fine, it's currently on a 500Mbps and never stalled or stuttered, it's far more capacity than the Mini needs, my desktop PC in the office, I just went 1000Mbps on it and on that machine I could tell the difference. Any time I have had powerline performance issues it's been my own fault and twice it's pointed me correctly at questionable outlets that needed either a new receptacle or a wiring fix. I don't view Mini use as "heavy lifting" since it's proven itself with lower speeds.

I also have found that the slower the powerline adapter the better it deals with imperfect wiring.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

dianebrat said:


> Yes, they are wiring dependent, FWIW my Mini has frequently been on a 200Mbps adapter and functioned fine, it's currently on a 500Mbps and never stalled or stuttered, it's far more capacity than the Mini needs, my desktop PC in the office, I just went 1000Mbps on it and on that machine I could tell the difference. Any time I have had powerline performance issues it's been my own fault and twice it's pointed me correctly at questionable outlets that needed either a new receptacle or a wiring fix. I don't view Mini use as "heavy lifting" since it's proven itself with lower speeds.
> 
> I also have found that the slower the powerline adapter the better it deals with imperfect wiring.


How many Minis do you have operating over Powerline simultaneously? (that is, actively streaming recorded or live TiVo content)

Similar to those who have had success with using wireless bridges for Mini installation, I'm curious if there are issues as the number of simultaneous streams across those technologies increase.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> How many Minis do you have operating over Powerline simultaneously? (that is, actively streaming recorded or live TiVo content)
> 
> Similar to those who have had success with using wireless bridges for Mini installation, I'm curious if there are issues as the number of simultaneous streams across those technologies increase.


I've had the mini streaming HD while the desktop PC backs up via Windows to the NAS and both access the same powerline adapter in the basement for network access, what Hot4Bo is suggesting is similar and I can attest that it's not an issue. The point I'm making is that a Mini doesn't max out solid bandwidth even if it's low.

BTW just for others, I realized after thinking about my Single MoCA adapter solution might not work as the bridge I was hoping it could be.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

I've used powerline in the past with ok results. My biggest problem was reliability. About once a month I'd have to reboot my adapters. Moca/DECA, on the other hand, I never have to touch.


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## wscottcross (Dec 24, 2014)

mdavej said:


> 1. Yes, one at the Roamio and another at your router (or some switch that ultimately connects to it). The idea is one needs to be connected to both your coax and your router.


I don't understand why everyone says 2 MoCa adapters are necessary. I only have one connected at my whole house ethernet switch. The Roamio and Bolt are both connected to the switch directly so why are 2 MoCa adapters required? The host Tivo should already have a network connection since that's required to make the basic Tivo functions work.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

wscottcross said:


> I don't understand why everyone says 2 MoCa adapters are necessary. I only have one connected at my whole house ethernet switch. The Roamio and Bolt are both connected to the switch directly so why are 2 MoCa adapters required? The host Tivo should already have a network connection since that's required to make the basic Tivo functions work.


They aren't if you have a Bolt. OP doesn't have a Bolt or apparently any other device to create the Moca network. Since Roamio basic has no Moca capability whatsoever, he needs an adapter to bridge his ethernet network to his coax network, and an adapter to connect his Roamio.

In your case, you wouldn't need any Moca adapters at all if your Bolt were connected to your router (via a switch is fine too). Sounds like the one you have is superfluous.


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## BD1 (Sep 29, 2015)

I have a Roamio plus and multiple minis that I setup a few months ago. The setup works great.

But until reading this thread I didn't know about this poe filter which I will research for my setup.

I also did not moca adapters. So I am confused why these are required?


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## wscottcross (Dec 24, 2014)

mdavej said:


> They aren't if you have a Bolt. OP doesn't have a Bolt or apparently any other device to create the Moca network. Since Roamio basic has no Moca capability whatsoever, he needs an adapter to bridge his ethernet network to his coax network, and an adapter to connect his Roamio.
> 
> In your case, you wouldn't need any Moca adapters at all if your Bolt were connected to your router (via a switch is fine too). Sounds like the one you have is superfluous.


Yes, my MoCa adapter is not required any more. I got the MoCa adapter before I added the Bolt. I still don't understand why everyone says you need a MoCa adapter on the Roamio too. If the Roamio is connected to the ethernet switch and the MoCa adapter is also connected to the switch, the Mini will work. That's how I ran mine for months and still how it is set up. I never bothered enabling MoCa on the Bolt because the single adapter has been working great since I got it. As long as you have a single adapter to bridge the ethernet to coax, it will work. If the Roamio was NOT connected via ethernet, then I agree, a second MoCa adapter would be needed.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

wscottcross said:


> Yes, my MoCa adapter is not required any more. I got the MoCa adapter before I added the Bolt. I still don't understand why everyone says you need a MoCa adapter on the Roamio too. If the Roamio is connected to the ethernet switch and the MoCa adapter is also connected to the switch, the Mini will work. That's how I ran mine for months and still how it is set up. I never bothered enabling MoCa on the Bolt because the single adapter has been working great since I got it. As long as you have a single adapter to bridge the ethernet to coax, it will work. If the Roamio was NOT connected via ethernet, then I agree, a second MoCa adapter would be needed.


You are 100% correct. But the latter is the case with the OP, no ethernet connection for his Roamio, hence a second Moca adapter for getting ethernet to the Roamio.

I ran my system exactly the way you used to. Direct ethernet to Roamio basic, single Moca adapter for bridge, then multiple Minis in other rooms. I later added a few more Moca adapters to get various PCs and other devices in other rooms on my LAN. (I actually started with DECA years ago, then switched over to Moca when I ran across a good deal on adapters).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

wscottcross said:


> I still don't understand why everyone says you need a MoCa adapter on the Roamio too. If the Roamio is connected to the ethernet switch and the MoCa adapter is also connected to the switch, the Mini will work. ... If the Roamio was NOT connected via ethernet, then I agree, a second MoCa adapter would be needed.


You answered your own question, there.

And it's the latter case, as mdavej pointed-out, that applies to the OP's circumstances, as defined in the very first sentence of the thread:


Hot4Bo said:


> I currently have a 4-Tuner Roamio with a Comcast cable card in my living room, which is connected wirelessly to my router in my office.


Not everyone would need 2 MoCA adapters, or even one, but the OP needs 2 for their setup, barring any other new runs of Ethernet cable.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

BD1 said:


> I also did not moca adapters. So I am confused why these are required?


A MoCA network is needed if you want to extend wired networking to some location in the home that has access to the coax wiring but not to Ethernet.

A MoCA adapter is needed to create a MoCA network, in the absence of some other device already available that is capable of doing so, such as a MoCA-capable TiVo DVR (4-tuner Premiere, 6-tuner Roamio or BOLT) or MoCA-capable gateway (modem/router) device. The MoCA adapter, or other MoCA network-creating device, would need to be physically connected to both the coax lines and to the home network/LAN.

A MoCA adapter would also be necessary to provide a local MoCA-to-Ethernet bridge for any devices that need to connect via the MoCA network but lack built-in MoCA connectivity hardware. The MoCA-capable TiVo DVRs and the TiVo Mini have built-in MoCA connectivity, but the 4-tuner Roamios, 2-tuner Premieres and older TiVo DVRs do not.

See the links in this earlier post: http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10705751#post10705751


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## Jay2tak (Jun 10, 2009)

BD1 said:


> I have a Roamio plus and multiple minis that I setup a few months ago. The setup works great.
> 
> But until reading this thread I didn't know about this poe filter which I will research for my setup.
> 
> I also did not moca adapters. So I am confused why these are required?


I added a poe filter and my internet speed (Comcast) dropped way down has this happened to anyone else? I figured that Comcast already had one on the line.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Jay2tak said:


> I added a poe filter and my internet speed (Comcast) dropped way down has this happened to anyone else? I figured that Comcast already had one on the line.


That's not normal. If you ever had an X1 system, they probably did already have one. Where did you add yours, is the physical connection good? Otherwise, just take it back off and don't worry about it.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Jay2tak said:


> I added a poe filter and my internet speed (Comcast) dropped way down has this happened to anyone else? I figured that Comcast already had one on the line.


Maybe a poor quality MoCA filter that was reflecting a wider frequency range than it should... and your particular cable provider is using higher frequency ranges to boost the speed of its Internet service?

Who's your cable provider and what was your spec'd Internet speed? That is, what were you seeing before and after the MoCA filter was installed on the PoE? (Cable modems also allow you to access their status via a web browser, and you could check your modem, with the filter removed, to see what frequencies it is using.)

As mdavej suggested, you'd probably want to remove the MoCA filter if it's affecting your Internet speed drastically; however, I'd definitely take it up with your provider to ensure that you have a MoCA filter, if not that particular one, in place on your cable point-of-entry, to secure and strengthen your MoCA signals.

p.s. Depending on how much hurt that MoCA filter puts on your Internet speed, you could temporarily put it back in place and measure its effect on your MoCA-connected TiVo devices, and then compare against their MoCA signal strength with that particular filter removed. See the following post for details on checking your MoCA signal quality via the TiVo UI:
*Checking MoCA connection quality*​


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## BD1 (Sep 29, 2015)

Jay2tak said:


> I added a poe filter and my internet speed (Comcast) dropped way down has this happened to anyone else? I figured that Comcast already had one on the line.


I did a search on my comcast modem specs and from what I can tell it has a built-in poe filter.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

BD1 said:


> I did a search on my comcast modem specs and from what I can tell it has a built-in poe filter.


That's a good thing; it means your modem won't be affected by MoCA signals on your coax. However, your modem having a built-in MoCA filter, to protect itself from MoCA interference, is unrelated to the need for a MoCA filter on your cable's point-of-entry (PoE) into your home.

See post #46, up-thread, here, for the "why?" and "how?" responses from TiVo in regards to the need for a "PoE" MoCA filter.

(I try to call them "MoCA filters" as much as possible, because the "PoE filter" term makes their use to protect tuning adapters, modems, etc. from MoCA signals confusing, at times.)


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## Jay2tak (Jun 10, 2009)

krkaufman said:


> Maybe a poor quality MoCA filter that was reflecting a wider frequency range than it should...Probably the answer it was the cheapest one on ebay... and your particular cable provider is using higher frequency ranges to boost the speed of its Internet service?
> 681-711 Mhz
> Who's your cable provider and what was your spec'd Internet speed? Comcast. That is, what were you seeing before (30Mbps)and after(.25) the MoCA filter was installed on the PoE? (Cable modems also allow you to access their status via a web browser, and you could check your modem, with the filter removed, to see what frequencies it is using.)
> 
> ...


Response in red. As a side note I'm in a high-rise condominium building that has several units with X1 systems installed.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

One solution: add a 2-way splitter (5MHz-1675MHz or higher) as the main splitter, with one output going directly to your cable mode, and place the PoE filter on the other output so that all of your video equipment is downstream from the PoE filter.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

snerd said:


> One solution: add a 2-way splitter (5MHz-1675MHz or higher) as the main splitter, with one output going directly to your cable mode, and place the PoE filter on the other output so that all of your video equipment is downstream from the PoE filter.


This is heading the direction I was thinking, as well, but I'm curious about something else, first.

Jay2tak, a couple questions...

What are you using for a cable modem and router? (brands & model numbers, if possible.)

Continuing snerd's train-of-thought, could you provide a description of how your coax devices interconnect, starting from where the Comcast signal enters your residence? It's difficult to diagnose, blind to the coax device tree/hierarchy.

Please include any details on how your MoCA network is being created and how your MoCA network-creating device is connected to your LAN and (especially) your coax plant.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Jay2tak said:


> before (30Mbps) ... after(.25)


Wow, that's way beyond "dropped way down" in my usage.



Jay2tak said:


> As a side note I'm in a high-rise condominium building that has several units with X1 systems installed.


Noted.

Obviously leave the MoCA filter off, for now; but I'd be interested in what would happen if you were to put a MoCA filter acquired directly from Comcast into the same location. (Though I'm more interested in your modem brand/model number, at present.)

p.s. To answer your original question...


Jay2tak said:


> I added a poe filter and my internet speed (Comcast) dropped way down *has this happened to anyone else?*


Yes, you'll find reports of similar symptoms. Will need to do some research if there were any resolutions aside from "don't do that."


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Saturn_V said:


> Has anyone attempted using Mini with Powerline Ethernet adapters? My gut says it's probably not viable, but I had to ask.


Yes. It worked for me. That does NOT mean it will work for you, or would work on any other plug in the house that I tried it in. YMMV. Use ethernet or MoCA if at all possible.

Mine would max out around 40mbps, whereas the rest of my network could handle at least the ~110mbps coming from Comcast.



dianebrat said:


> If you're using MoCA in a cable environment you will ALWAYS need a POE filter on the line coming into the house to prevent your data signal from leaking out and the problems it creates for your MoCA network and to other users.


I ran for two years without one, but it's probably a good idea to have one. It does improve the performance of MoCA and prevents anyone from connecting to your network (most likely accidentally).



Hot4Bo said:


> I have a feeling that the "root" of the coax tree is in the attic, where I can't get to it.


If it is installed per code, there is a grounding point/demarc that comes before all splitters. You can put the PoE filter on this. This could be in the basement (if you even have those in Florida, I'm from New England, so slabs are really weird to us), or on the outside of the house.


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## Jay2tak (Jun 10, 2009)

krkaufman said:


> This is heading the direction I was thinking, as well, but I'm curious about something else, first.
> 
> Jay2tak, a couple questions...
> 
> ...


MoCa is created on XL4. Here is a crude sketch.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Jay2tak said:


> MoCa is created on XL4. Here is a crude sketch.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great sketch; thanks. (and kudos on getting all those splitters compliant)

The specs on your modem make no mention of MoCA, so they're not explicitly saying that the modem is MoCA-compatible or has a MoCA filter built-in; however, if your Internet connection is working fine without a MoCA filter attached to the modem, then there's no need for one. (ain't broke, nothing to fix) Others have definitely needed a MoCA filter attached to their modem, as they've experienced the opposite situation to yours; see here.

I'd say leave that MoCA filter off your modem and consider that issue solved -- even if the root cause isn't understood.

Separately, your diagram doesn't indicate a MoCA filter at your point-of-entry. Do you know if your tech has installed one on the input to that first splitter? (security concern)


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Jay2tak said:


> MoCa is created on XL4. Here is a crude sketch.


What do you levels look like? I have two thoughts:

1. Your levels are super sketchy/marginal right now, and putting a MoCA filter in drops them slightly, especially if the DOCSIS channels are close to 1ghz.

2. It's possible that you do have a poorly designed and thus out of spec modem, like mentioned above, that is negatively affected by MoCA signals. Putting the MoCA filter on the PoE makes the MoCA signals significantly stronger than they otherwise would be, maybe crossing some threshold and making the modem misbehave.

Because we know that there are improperly designed modems out there, I would try a MoCA filter on the PoE and on the modem, and see what happens. If theory 1. is correct, then your interwebz will probably be br0k3n. If theory 2 is correct, your interwebz will be speedy again.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

Got my Mini and MoCa adapters yesterday. I'm looking at the installation for the MoCa adapters as explained upthread. Hoping the installation is as easy as it looks. I'm really afraid I'll screw up my existing network, which is working so well.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

OK, attempting installation: My MoCa network is now working, I believe, since my Roamio has connected via Ethernet connection to TiVo successfully.

My office is giving me problems though, I think. Here's what I have now - cable wire from wall to splitter. 2 cable wires from splitter - one to the router and the other to the MoCa adapter. Then I have the MoCa adapter to the modem/router via Ethernet. Does that sound right?

I'm not understanding exactly how to put the Mini into the mix. MoCa port to...??? What is the Ethernet port on the Mini for?

And I just realized I may have a MAJOR problem. I didn't realize I'd have to hook the Mini up to the TV by HDMI. This is an older TV and doesn't have HDMI. I guess I need a new TV, is that right?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Hot4Bo said:


> And I just realized I may have a MAJOR problem. I didn't realize I'd have to hook the Mini up to the TV by HDMI. This is an older TV and doesn't have HDMI. I guess I need a new TV, is that right?


Well, it wouldn't hurt.  The Mini has other outputs but you need to buy the cable(s): https://www.tivo.com/shop/mini scroll down.

The coax is for MoCA. The Ethernet connector is if you are using Ethernet to your network. I use Ethernet.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

I'm sorry, I'm not getting it. What am I connecting the Mini to to make it part of the MoCa network? I also don't see how to connect it to this old TV, if I even can. I scrolled down on that link and I didn't see anything like what I need to know.

Sorry to be so dense.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Hot4Bo said:


> I'm sorry, I'm not getting it. What am I connecting the Mini to to make it part of the MoCa network? I also don't see how to connect it to this old TV, if I even can. I scrolled down on that link and I didn't see anything like what I need to know.
> 
> Sorry to be so dense.


There are three ways to get content from the Mini to the television. HDMI is the best. Next is component that carries video only on three wires to RCA connectors (red, green, blue). The third is composite (yellow, red, white). It has video and audio. The audio (red & white) is also used with the component video. If your TV does not support component or composite then it will not work with a Mini.

Scrolling down displays a picture of the back of the Mini where these connections are located.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

OK, I have composite I guess (yellow, red and white). My TV does have 3 holes for them but there aren't 3 holes to plug them into on the back of the Mini. There is a green Component hole and a yellow A/V hole. What am I missing here?

Also, I still don't know where the MoCa connection on the back of the Mini connects to the network. Does it go to the modem/router or the MoCa Adapter?

ETA: I connected the MoCa from the Mini to the MoCa adapter. I hope that is right.


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## ellinj (Feb 26, 2002)

Hot4Bo said:


> OK, attempting installation: My MoCa network is now working, I believe, since my Roamio has connected via Ethernet connection to TiVo successfully. That sounds to me like your moca is all set on both sides.


I find this strange if the adapter in the office isn't working. It would have to be working in order for you to get connectivity via ethernet.

As for the tv, its sounds like you will need this

http://www.amazon.com/TiVo-Mini-Com...id=1451366475&sr=8-1&keywords=tivo+mini+cable

unless you go for a new tv.

Also, one other thing that isn't clear to me is if your modem and your tv in the office are using the same cable outlet?


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

ellinj said:


> I find this strange if the adapter in the office isn't working. It would have to be working in order for you to get connectivity via ethernet.
> 
> As for the tv, its sounds like you will need this
> 
> ...


I think the adapter in the office is working but I guess I won't know that until I see the Mini working too. I'll look at the link and decide what to do. Thanks!


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## ellinj (Feb 26, 2002)

Hot4Bo said:


> I think the adapter in the office is working but I guess I won't know that until I see the Mini working too. I'll look at the link and decide what to do. Thanks!


Personally I'd go with a new TV. I am guessing the one you have in the office isn't HD. A small set won't cost that much.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

ellinj said:


> Personally I'd go with a new TV. I am guessing the one you have in the office isn't HD. A small set won't cost that much.


I probably will go that route. You are right that it isn't HD, which hasn't really bothered me but it might with the Mini. Until I have time to go buy a small TV (REALLY busy gearing up for tax season, which starts Monday), I ordered those cables. Yay for Amazon Prime!!! Thanks, again!!!


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## ellinj (Feb 26, 2002)

Hot4Bo said:


> I probably will go that route. You are right that it isn't HD, which hasn't really bothered me but it might with the Mini. Until I have time to go buy a small TV (REALLY busy gearing up for tax season, which starts Monday), I ordered those cables. Yay for Amazon Prime!!! Thanks, again!!!


http://www.amazon.com/Vizio-E24-C1-...ie=UTF8&qid=1451399734&sr=8-2&keywords=24"+tv


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

Hot4Bo said:


> OK, I have composite I guess (yellow, red and white). My TV does have 3 holes for them but there aren't 3 holes to plug them into on the back of the Mini. There is a green Component hole and a yellow A/V hole. What am I missing here?


https://www.tivo.com/shop/detail/av-cable

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00G3MP39M/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1451402854&sr=8-1&pi=SX200_QL40&keywords=tivo+component+cable&dpPl=1&dpID=411-ZMNM8wL&ref=plSrch


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

OK, help again, please!!

Got the wires and plugged them in from the Mini to the TV. All I see on the TV is snow and it is flashing intermittently. I'm not sure what's wrong now. 

Anybody have any ideas? Again, the MoCa must be right since the Roamio connects correctly.

Cable from the wall to splitter then one goes out to the cable modem/router and the other to the MoCa adapter. From the MoCa adapter, it goes to the Mini. I also have an Ethernet cable from the MoCa Adapter to the cable modem/router. New component/composite from the Mini to the TV. Is that all right?

I'm really not usually this stupid.


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## ellinj (Feb 26, 2002)

Hot4Bo said:


> OK, help again, please!!
> 
> Got the wires and plugged them in from the Mini to the TV. All I see on the TV is snow and it is flashing intermittently. I'm not sure what's wrong now.
> 
> ...


Forget the Moca for a minute, you should at least see the menus on the Mini. What color plugs are on the tv? And do you have everything matched up color wise?


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

I plugged in both wires I got today for Amazon. Colors all match up exactly.


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## ellinj (Feb 26, 2002)

Hot4Bo said:


> I plugged in both wires I got today for Amazon. Colors all match up exactly.


Is the tv on the correct input?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Some knock off cables colors don't match Tivo's outputs. Try each one on the yellow jack and see if any give you a picture.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

ellinj said:


> Is the tv on the correct input?


That was the first thing I tried. None of them work.


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## ellinj (Feb 26, 2002)

Hot4Bo said:


> That was the first thing I tried. None of them work.


I believe that there are two jacks on the back of the mini where the cable can connect. Have you tried them both?


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

I plugged the green into the green and the yellow into the yellow. Maybe I shouldn't have used both? I just had to leave to go to my mom's house. I'll try unplugging one then the other when I get home tonight.


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## ellinj (Feb 26, 2002)

Hot4Bo said:


> I plugged the green into the green and the yellow into the yellow. Maybe I shouldn't have used both? I just had to leave to go to my mom's house. I'll try unplugging one then the other when I get home tonight.


what type of input does the tv have? I think that one cable red-blue-green carries video and the other carries composite video yellow-red-white. Your tv had connectors for all five?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Hot4Bo said:


> I plugged the green into the green and the yellow into the yellow. Maybe I shouldn't have used both? I just had to leave to go to my mom's house. I'll try unplugging one then the other when I get home tonight.


I'm not talking about that end but the TV end. In any case, set the cable with the green plug aside. Plug the yellow into the yellow on the back of the mini, then the yellow/red/white into the TV. Change inputs until you get a picture. Also make sure the Mini has power. You should see a light on the front of it. On some TVs, there is no input button, but the AV input is at the end of the channel list. So go up or down to the end of the channel list and see if that works.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

There were 6 that matched the wires I got. Red, white and yellow to the tv with yellow to the mini. Then red, blue, green to the tv with green to the mini.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

I will unplug the second one as soon as I get home. There is definitely power and there is definitely an input button on the tv.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

You said in an earlier post that the TV only had red/white/yellow. If it has everything then disconnect just the yellow on the TV side. The red/green/blue from the green cable should be connected to that group on the TV. The red/white from the yellow cable should be connected to the red/white audio (L/R) that goes with the red/green/blue group.

Go ahead and post the make and model of the TV so we don't have to guess or play 20 questions.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

ellinj said:


> what type of input does the tv have? I think that one cable red-blue-green carries video and the other carries composite video yellow-red-white. Your tv had connectors for all five?


Six connectors - red, white and yellow & red, blue and green.



mdavej said:


> I'm not talking about that end but the TV end. In any case, set the cable with the green plug aside. Plug the yellow into the yellow on the back of the mini, then the yellow/red/white into the TV. Change inputs until you get a picture. Also make sure the Mini has power. You should see a light on the front of it. On some TVs, there is no input button, but the AV input is at the end of the channel list. So go up or down to the end of the channel list and see if that works.


Left the one with the yellow end plugged in to the Mini and the TV and unplugged the green and still nothing. There is power to the Mini. There is an input button on the TV and I've tried them all. Nothing. No channel list only the snow and intermittent flashing.



mdavej said:


> You said in an earlier post that the TV only had red/white/yellow. If it has everything then disconnect just the yellow on the TV side. The red/green/blue from the green cable should be connected to that group on the TV. The red/white from the yellow cable should be connected to the red/white audio (L/R) that goes with the red/green/blue group.
> 
> Go ahead and post the make and model of the TV so we don't have to guess or play 20 questions.


Tried leaving the red/green/blue and just the red/white on the other and nothing.

The TV is a Proview Model 470.

I keep coming back to the fact that something might be wrong with the way the Mini is plugged into the MoCa adapter. The white cable wire goes from the adapter where it says TV/STB Out into the Mini where it says MoCa. Is that right?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Why is the Mini plugged into a Moca adapter at all?


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

mdavej said:


> Why is the Mini plugged into a Moca adapter at all?


I don't know. I thought it was supposed to be since it has a MoCa connection on the back. Unplugging it doesn't help.

If that doesn't get plugged in, exactly how is the Mini connected to the MoCa network then?


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

ellinj said:


> Forget the Moca for a minute, you should at least see the menus on the Mini. What color plugs are on the tv? And do you have everything matched up color wise?





Hot4Bo said:


> I keep coming back to the fact that something might be wrong with the way the Mini is plugged into the MoCa adapter. The white cable wire goes from the adapter where it says TV/STB Out into the Mini where it says MoCa. Is that right?


listen to the wise words of ellinj, the MoCA adapter has nothing to do with what is displayed on the screen for troubleshooting, it doesn't even need to be there when troubleshooting the picture on the TV.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

OK, somehow, and I'm not even sure how, I have connection to the TV but now the network isn't working. I told it I have MoCa and got a C33 error. 

I see many threads here about a C33 error but I have no idea how to resolve it.

I found something in another thread that said to go to Change Network Settings on the Roamio and make it say "Use this DVR to create a MoCa network." I don't seem to have that option. It was connecting wirelessly but since I put the MoCa adapter there, it is connecting via Ethernet and those are the only 2 options - Ethernet or Wireless.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Why are you doing the exact opposite of everything we told you at the beginning of the thread? Please review and try again.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

I have reread the thread multiple times. I wasn't and am not aware that I am doing the opposite of everything you told me at the beginning of the thread. Apparently, you are much smarter than I am about MoCa networking. I'll try to find someone else to help but thanks for playing.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

Hot4Bo said:


> Cable from the wall to splitter then one goes out to the cable modem/router and the other to the MoCa adapter. From the MoCa adapter, it goes to the Mini. I also have an Ethernet cable from the MoCa Adapter to the cable modem/router. New component/composite from the Mini to the TV. Is that all right?


This configuration isn't right, and the MoCA adapter is blocking the signals from reaching the Mini. The MoCA adapter will send/receive MoCA signals only on the "Coax In" port. These MoCA signals are completely blocked so that they never reach the "TV/STB Out" port of the MoCA adapter, only video signals pass through. They do this so that the TV/STB port can feed video signals to a TV or other box, without interference from MoCA signals.

Configure as follows:

```
wall -> coax -> splitter in
  splitter out#1 -> Mini
  splitter out#2 -> MoCA adapter "Coax IN"
       MoCA adapter "TV/STB out" -> cable modem.
```
This works because the cable modem only needs video signals. DOCSIS cable modems use several video "channels" to carry network data.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Hot4Bo said:


> I have reread the thread multiple times. I wasn't and am not aware that I am doing the opposite of everything you told me at the beginning of the thread. Apparently, you are much smarter than I am about MoCa networking. I'll try to find someone else to help but thanks for playing.


We said no wifi at the Roamio, you do wifi at the Roamio. We said no Moca adapter for the Mini, you connect the Moca adapter to the Mini. That's the opposite. You've been given the proper connection advice several times and ignore it all. We have to start from scratch every post.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

This seems to have worked!!!!! It went through the downloading and is now installing an update. 

Thank you for that last configuration, snerd!!! I really appreciate it.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

mdavej said:


> We said no wifi at the Roamio, you do wifi at the Roamio. We said no Moca adapter for the Mini, you connect the Moca adapter to the Mini. That's the opposite. You've been given the proper connection advice several times and ignore it all. We have to start from scratch every post.


I did not do Wifi at the Roamio. That was before the MoCa. I didn't understand how the MoCa adapter fit in at the modem/router. I don't see that as a crime and I'm sorry if I tried your patience. Thank goodness there are other people with more patience than you.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

Hot4Bo said:


> This seems to have worked!!!!! It went through the downloading and is now installing an update.
> 
> Thank you for that last configuration, snerd!!! I really appreciate it.


Glad it helped.

Once the update it complete on the Mini, you might still have a problem getting the Mini to talk to the TiVo. This is normal, because the TiVo needs to "phone home" to the TiVo server before it knows that the Mini is out there and wants to access the TiVo. Sometimes it requires 2 or 3 service connections from both the TiVo and the Mini, so don't give up if it doesn't work the first time. After 3 service connections, if it still isn't working, power-cycle both boxes.

MoCA is very reliable once everything is configured/working.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

It is now working!!! I can't find a remote code that works for TV on/off and volume but I expected that. This TV is old!


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## jmerr74 (Nov 3, 2015)

Hot4Bo said:


> I did not do Wifi at the Roamio. That was before the MoCa. I didn't understand how the MoCa adapter fit in at the modem/router. I don't see that as a crime and I'm sorry if I tried your patience. Thank goodness there are other people with more patience than you.


I have to tell you MOCA isn't easy. I could not figure it out myself...took me a minute. I had to have Comcast come out and install filters, had to have a separate powered line amp put in, had to jump through a ton of hoops and because of the holidays and having been so busy...I haven't tried to see if it all works! I have all my Mini's waiting to be hooked up in the right places...my Roamio with a 3TB I put in waiting to be installed as well. Tuesday will be the day. I do agree with you about MOCA...I had never heard of it at all until I came back to Tivo...it takes a minute to wrap your head around it. Thankfully some people are more patient than others around here though.


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