# Tivo with Fios TV



## unicorngoddess

This week Verizon is launching Fios TV in my area. We intend on getting it...it's cheaper and more reliable (no more searching for signal) <----DishNetwork User.

I know they've been testing it in Keller and the whole state of Texas just recently got the okay from the FCC or whoever is in charge of the licenses Verizon had to get. I guess it had a very limited test audience because I can't find reviews about it anywhere.

Anyway, my point is, I don't know how the Fios TV is connected and if it will be compatable with my Tivo. I was just curious to know if anyone's heard anything about it. Because after years of having Tivo on my wishlist, I JUST NOW got one like a month ago. But if it turns out not to be compatable, at least Verizon is offering some kind of DVR...they don't say what kind though. It's a dual tuner and that's about all I know. We figure if the Tivo isn't compatable then someone on our christmas list is most likely getting a like-new Tivo with a lifetime subscription. I'm hoping that it will be compatable though because I don't want to have to pay extra for something that I've already paid for.


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## Justin Thyme

The video inputs will compatible with FIOS. Fios can carry Analog Video***, though I don't know if they are doing that [Edit- they are. See subsequent notes]. Since the Fios box is a motorolla box that is used by the cable companies, I wouldn't be surprized if Tivo can already control it. Tribune has FIOS data (see FIOS listings for Keller texas here), so the guide data is available. Just don't know if it has been massaged into Tivo's database yet. Maybe someone like TivoOpsMgr could comment on whether this support is currently there. I see no mention on the Tivo site. Stephen?

Regarding FIOS, there are a bunch of articles and reviews that dispel a great deal of the mystery.. Here is one from October. As far as any consumer will see, Fios video looks nothing different from plain old cable technology. At your Fios box will be a regular F Connector** that you run coax from to a Motorolla set top box. 








note coax running from Fios outlets on wall









back of Fios Motrolla box- you would connect tivo input lines from svideo and rca audio connectors on the left​
So as far as Tivo is concerned, it is any old Cablebox, no sweat. My only doubt is whether Tivo has guide listings and set top box IR command codes set up for FIOS [edit- they have the guide listings, and can control the basic set top box, though there has been no confirmation [as of 12/7/05] that there are no glitches. See later notes].

Verizon's filing with the FCC indicated they are compatible with Cablecard, so quite possibly the HD cablecard Tivo will work with FIOS. I don't know if the FCC requires (or is talking about requiring) them to comply with the cablecard standard. Maybe Bob Pony would like to jump in here and let it drop that Tivo has been working with Verizon for the last 3 years, or that CC Tivo is will definately be compatible with FIOS. Seems that has been the pace of Tivo announcements lately. Who knows.

The above mentioned filing I illustrates the architecture of the FIOS system on Page 6. Basically they just bundle up the entire Cable signal, transmit it via fiber to the Fios box, then reproduce it for the last coax run to the STB. Only thing was that it doesn't want to propagate the CableCo's proprietary network for interactive services, since IP works pretty darn well. So all interactive stuff uses IP, not the Cableco's way of doing two way (upstream RF).

This article  mentioned that Microsoft was doing the Motorolla box software, which is really weird, but maybe it is Hybrid IPTV- all interactive stuff will be IP, so that makes sense.

***see page 5 of FCC filing, bottom of page.
**also see page 7 of Fcc filing for mention of standard Coax 'F' connector

Edits: 12/4 fixed busted link
12/5 inserted forward notes to updated information


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## gastrof

What I'm wondering is what their price is for having multiple drops in the same residence.

They give a huge number of channels for $35 a month, but don't say what the charge is if you want more than one box, or if the box and remote are an extra charge each month beyond the $35.

It's also incredibly shortsighted of Verizon to not have any way for potential customers to contact them with questions, except to just "sign up" for when and if FIOS comes to "your" area.

I'd wanted to ask them about the additional drops and about any box and remote rental, and they don't even have a way to e-mail them about FIOS. Phone and internet, sure, but not about their newest service.

I hate "subject specific" e-mail options. They never give you the option you need.


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## gastrof

Oh...

As for TiVo use, I think the FIOS box IS actually a DVR, and it has two tuners.

Only thing you'd need might be a way to record to disc from it. (Seems to have two sets of yellow/red/white RCA lines, but it looks like one actually says "IN" and the other "OUT"...why a FIOS box would need a set of RCA inputs is beyond me. Anyway, it looks like it has only one set of RCA outputs, so you'd have to use an RCA A/V splitter amp to be able to feed a TV and a DVD recorder or VCR.)


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## Justin Thyme

If you look at the Texas Fios listing, you will see it isn't a huge number of channels. Some on avsforum have commented that their current satellite carrier has more, but the PQ on FIOS is awesome. Difference is the SD and HD channels are not compressed much (don't have to, they are running on glass and have gonzo bandwidth to burn.)

The fcc document mentions a 120 hour DVR. AvsForum notes have mentioned expensive charges for the DVR, but I didn't see specific numbers. Personally, if I had the FIOS option, would get an SA Tivo and when the CC Tivo came out, sell the SA's on ebay and move over to CC Tivo boxes.

That's basically what I am doing now- Dish has an HD DVR, but I am sticking with my SA's to drive my HDTVs. When CC comes out, I go to them, and with it, I drop Dish (since they don't support cablecard devices- bad choice on their part).


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## gastrof

Actually, I checked their "Extended Basic" package, and for $35 it was a huge list of channels.

http://www22.verizon.com/FiosForHome/Channels/FiosTV/FiosTVpackage.aspx


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## gastrof

Make that "Expanded Basic" for that price-

Channel lineup

http://www22.verizon.com/FiosForHome/Channels/FiosTV/channel.aspx


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## Justin Thyme

Thanks. The fios site has good info. This states that only Extended basic requires a set top box, so analog Cable is there, and folks can just hook the coax up to the back of their Cable ready TV, or via Tivo's Coax connector. That means no IR code problems if the 49 Basic cable channels is all folks want.

Also this mentions the DVR if 85 hours, not 120.

Their "180 channels" sounds neat, except that includes 50 music only "channels",

But the HDTV is a little skimpy. Dish has all those as well as the VOOM channels.

Dish also has a huge number of ethnic channels- Tagalog, Russian, Hindi, you name it. Looks like Fios has focused on Spanish, which is good, but there is a great deal more language diversity than that in the US.

I have some doubts  whether FIOS's FCC filing sayst they are cablecard 1.0 compatible, but it seems like they would want to work closely with Tivo to make sure they worked with the CC Tivo, at least for one way.


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## unicorngoddess

I just got off the phone with someone from Verizon. It IS available in Lewisville, but not on my side of town apparently. He said possibly by next weekend though as they are sending their techs out on Saturdays to set things up I guess.

Here's some info that I got from him though. He said Tivo wouldn't be compatable with it...although I think they may just say that to sell...excuse me, RENT, me their DVR. He said something about the speed of the Fios signal, which to me sounded like the problem people had when trying to use Tivo with VoIP...and if I remember correctly, there was a fix for that.

Their DVR is $12.95/month for the HD box. I have an HD-ready tv but we never got an HD reciever because we didn't want to pay extra money to subscribe to a handful of HD channels on DISH. The guy said that with the HD-DVR you don't have to buy a seperate HD reciever, it's kinda an all in one thing. Dual tuner, so you can record two things at the same time. The regular cable box is only $3.95/room.

Right now the Dallas area has 183 channels to offer for the Expanded Basic. Your first three months are free...that's just for the service though, you still have to pay for your boxes from what I understand. You get to preview HBO free for a month as well. I believe the HD channels were included in the Expanded Basic also.

That's all I could think of asking at the time...I should have made a list of questions BEFORE calling, but as I think of more I'm gonna write them down and give them a call back to see if I can find out anything else.


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## Justin Thyme

Thanks for reporting that, but try the following:
1) Go to Tivo's page that reports carriers by your zip code
2) Punch in a zip from Lewisville TX, eg 75057
3) Note that Tivo lists's FIOS for your area.

Conclusion? As has been noted many times in the past here- Consumer Service Representatives are some of the most underpaid and undervalued folks you can run across. Oftentimes they only have scripts and they get measured by the shortness of their call, and whether they generated more subscriptions and services from the call.

So you can pretty much flip a coin to predict whether the CSR's info on Tivo is correct or not. I have a hard time believing that Tivo wouldn't work with at least Basic FIOS, since there are no possible control issues if you just connect Tivo via Tivo's Cable ready connector.

Of course, you can get really bad information in forums too, from self appointed experts, such as crackpots like me.  You won't go far wrong if you have a healthy skepticism about everything you hear, unless it comes from an official source- like the FIOS or Tivo website (even those are sometimes incorrect).

The pricing looks like typical Comcast sort of set up (virtually free DVR box). What is startling to Comcast execs is that so many people say no thanks and choose Tivo's box. Dish Network tried to entice me with a similar set of supposed of advantages with their DVR- and I passed. Current Tivos simply deliver a substantially better Television experience today.

You don't hear legions of folks raving about their Dish or Comcast DVR. But you do about TiVo's. Ask yourself why that is. When you find the answer, you will know what all the other generic DVR users are missing.


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## unicorngoddess

Justin Thyme said:


> Consumer Service Representatives are some of the most underpaid and undervalued folks you can run across.


No argument here. That's my current position. I work for a telephone manufacturer and the main goal of the CSRs at Telcos seems to be get this person off my phone asap! A customer will call for help with their voicemail service and they tell them they have to talk to the people that make the phone, give them our number, they call us and when we tell them voice mail isn't a feature in the phone it's a feature from your phone company...well, you can just imagine how the customer feels having to bounce back and forth like that. Telcos have some of the worst CSRs I've ever come across.

But being a CSR myself, I could tell he definately wasn't reading from a script. I'm just pretty sure he didn't know what he was talking about when it came to the Tivo question as his answer seemed kinda vague and to me it sounded like a problem that could be fixed.


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## Justin Thyme

Sorry- our messages crossed while I was editing my response. 

Tivo does recognise FIOS as a provider in your area. Reread the first part of the note where I added the steps where you can prove it for yourself.


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## dt_dc

Justin Thyme said:


> I have a hard time believing that Tivo wouldn't work with at least Basic FIOS, since there are no possible control issues if you just connect Tivo via Tivo's Cable ready connector.


Depends on whether they remap channels ... I notice there's no "Verizon Analog" or "Verizon Cable-Ready" or whatever they'd call it type of option. So if Verizon remaps any channels between the 'actual' cable channel and what displays on their box ... there's no accurate Tivo lineup for that.

Easily fixed (by Tivo or Tribune) ... but something that (may) be required (if you're going to hook a Tivo straight to the coax).


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## unicorngoddess

Yeah, but I'm on the north side of Lewisville. My zip is 75077. He did say it was available in some parts of Lewisville, Carrollton and Irving. The most frustrating part is that there's a Verizon CO litterally right behind my house...it's the street right behind mine. Now he did say that they're sometimes slow about updating the computer system with the availablity, so he recommended calling back at the end of the week to see for sure.


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## Justin Thyme

Whenever FIOS gets to your street, it seems likely to me that Tivo will work with FIOS will work in at least one way of hooking it up (via the cable ready connection).



dt_dc said:


> Easily fixed (by Tivo or Tribune) ... but something that (may) be required (if you're going to hook a Tivo straight to the coax).


Good point. I didn't even think about remapping. Good thing someone here knows something about cable. It seems to me that with the infrastructure all laid out, if this was all the obstacle was to saying Tivo is FIOS compatible, you'd see the listings updated in a heartbeat if remapping is in fact an issue. All iof this is Dallas area so it doesn't seem much more than a single new numeric list enterred into the database.

I am curious about whether the IR blaster controls work with the FIOS $4 reciever box. It seems to me that the 7.2 setup software should not have any trouble with it, but I am only guessing.

Does anyone have a Tivo hooked up to FIOS video? Coax or STB? What is model number of your motorolla box?


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## gastrof

unicorngoddess said:


> I just got off the phone with someone from Verizon....
> 
> He said Tivo wouldn't be compatable with it...although I think they may just say that to sell...excuse me, RENT, me their DVR. He said something about the speed of the Fios signal, which to me sounded like the problem people had when trying to use Tivo with VoIP...and if I remember correctly, there was a fix for that...


The problem TiVo has with VoIP involves trying to use that type of phone line to communicate over.

It has nothing to do with TV reception or "understanding" A/V lines.

If the FIOS box can send its signal thru A/V lines into a TV set, it can do the same with a TiVo.

TiVo's ARE television sets, just as VCRs are. In both cases, there's a TV tuner inside, and the capacity to take A/V signals as well. What DVRs and VCRs lack is their own display screen and audio (amp and speakers).

If the FIOS box can work with your TV it can work with your TiVo.

As described by JT, the TiVo apparently also knows the channel lineup for FIOS in your area.

He also says it likely will be able to control the FIOS box as well.

*"Since the Fios box is a motorolla box that is used by the cable companies, I wouldn't be surprized if Tivo can already control it."*


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## rsnaider

One other thing to consider is Verizons FIOS is not VOIP but POTS over fiber. There are no special settings required for modem's or fax machines.

Once FIOS TV is availble in my area it should be as simple as re-running GS and choosing the correct line-up. As long as the Motoroal box has IR settings everything else should work fine.

CC is another aspect that hopefully FIOS TV will support.


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## Justin Thyme

gastrof said:


> He also says it likely will be able to control the FIOS box as well.


If I haven't emphasized it enough, I say again, I could be wrong.

If TivoOpsMgr, TivoJerry or TivoPony wants to jump in here and confirm/deny/ say they don't yet have confirmation if Tivos work both with Fios direct Coax connection (for fios basic) as well as with the FIOS STB (for fios extended), that would put an end to the speculation.


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## gastrof

So we're agreed that FIOS is good, but some FIOS reps are evil fiends who secretly plot the overthrow of all that's good and wholesome?

No...

Wait...

Maybe I'm confusing them with the counter help at Dairy Queen?


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## gastrof

Justin Thyme said:


> If I haven't emphasized it enough, I say again, I could be wrong.
> 
> If TivoOpsMgr, TivoJerry or TivoPony wants to jump in here and confirm/deny/ say they don't yet have confirmation if Tivos work both with Fios direct Coax connection (for fios basic) as well as with the FIOS STB (for fios extended), that would put an end to the speculation.


If you're wrong, will we find out just in time?


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## unicorngoddess

gastrof said:


> So we're agreed that FIOS is good, but some FIOS reps are evil fiends who secretly plot the overthrow of all that's good and wholesome?
> 
> No...
> 
> Wait...
> 
> Maybe I'm confusing them with the counter help at Dairy Queen?


Oh no...that's another job I've actually had too.

The guy from Verizon said that if you already have Fios there is no extra wiring needed in the home. You just hook up the boxes and should be set to go.


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## Justin Thyme

Yeah, but you also wouldn't need any more wiring for anything else- regardless if it was an Windows MCE box, a replayTV, or a Tivo.

I wonder if there is more to the wiring though. For instance I wonder if they run that wall outlet (pictured above where the cables are plugged to the wall) thing to every location in the home requiring fios video, internet, and phone. If so, I wonder what the charge per outlet is.


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## joysbox

Justin Thyme we will find out on Friday if they try to go to several places in the house. I think looking at my service ticket that they go to only one main location, all others are addtional charges. I plan on having them go to the OnQ box in the garage and have it split the signal all over the house like we did for the cable modem.
j


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## Justin Thyme

It will be very intersting to hear your experience when you have your Tivo's hooked up. Professional question- I presume from your link you are into real estate. Seeing how the internet has revolutionized real estate in attracting buyers, I wonder if you have read or heard about any outfits doing video walk throughs for each listing. With a Tivo, it is possible to easily watch such walk throughs from the comfort of the living room. Of course, it is not going to be a big deal until there are substantial enough numbers of potential buyers with Tivos in a given market, but you may see where I am going with this. Buyer puts in their search criteria for a home (high low price, residential areas, square feet and other features)- all just like they would do for a Tivo wishlist. Bang- user goes to their now playing list and under House search folder, they can view any new listings satisfying the search criteria. Of course at the video listing is the listing agent, with a one tivo click, send me more information thing like they have on those car Tivo commercials. Broadband to everyone's home like FIOS makes that sort of scenarios very interesting because the transfer of such videos is extremely rapid. In tivo's case it doesn't matter that much how slow the connection is because as Tivo users we are delightfully oblivious of when things are being recorded (or for that matter how long it takes).

Anyway, back to the Fios wall connectors. If the installer wants to charge and arm and a leg, you don't have to take it or leave it. Everything is standard cabling after it leaves that main box (pictured above), so you can opt to hire another cable jockey do it. If you have a DIY kind of guy in the family, you can get all the supplies you need cheap at home depot because it is all standard stuff. It is pretty easy to do- no high power or danger to your equipment if things are bass ackwards- It just won't work. The grunt work is just getting the cabling runs made without any tight bends or kinks in the wire. Then even if you have to call in a pro to sort out some mix up with making the connectors work, it will be a lot cheaper.

A box of cable that will wire up the largest of houses will set you back $59. Connectors, wall plates and tiedowns for the cabling- another 50 depending on length of runs and how many locations you are running to.

If interested, I have written up a lot of detail notes here.


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## TiVoJerry

This thread is the first I've heard of FIOS, so there's really no way to know how things will go down. If they use a Motorola box, there's a good chance that our IR codes might work but we'll have to wait for reports from the field to really know. 

If their box is a DVR, other issues might arise that could prevent smooth operation even if the IR codes do work. For example, I've seen a TiVo DVR control a Dish DVR because the Dish DVR functions weren't activated. If they were activated, the TiVo DVR would have no way of knowing if the Dish DVR had changed a channel to record something else on its own.


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## Justin Thyme

TivoJerry- the Set top box is a Motorola DCT2500* so I think the Tivo is going to breeze through it. (source) For tech background on the FIOS infrastructure- DT-DC pointed out a great paper that Verizon presented to the FCC  (same one I referenced earlier). Lots of pictures great for skimming the gist of it.

OK Joysbox. That's put you on the spot. Are you getting a Fios set top box or the DVR? If it is the Set top box, it will be very helpful to know how the Tivo does with it.

Okay?

* The only way to get HD is if you get the FIOS DVR- a DCT6414 [edit- this may be incorrect. There is a third box, which is an HD STB without DVR for $9.95/month according to a July document from Verizon. unknown model number] . As stated earlier, the FCC doc suggests that they are compatible with CC 1.0. Don't know if that means Tivo's CC is good to go with Fios or not. Maybe Bob should fly you to Dallas to visit Joy's home to find out.

Edits- 12/6 fixed busted link
12/7 HD STB correction.


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## TiVoJerry

Thanks for all the info...good stuff.

The DCT2500 is a model we control with current IR codes (10006, 10032, 10042, 10046 being the best choices). There is the possibility that these boxes may even have a serial port, but it seems doubtful that Verizon would know how to enable it to allow for serial control of channel changes (never know until you try).


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## joysbox

Hi Justin Thyme,
First, yes, I am a Realtor. One of the reasons I got the DRT800 was with the firewire port I could go preview a home for someone and make a DVD without the huge overhead that companies that do that charge. I would LOVE to have clients be able to see the homes online in a friendly format. It would be a interesting market to see who brings that element to the plate. It shouldn't be long..... 

But no, I won't be getting FiOS TV. It's not offered in Leesburg, only Herndon VA. And those 16 miles make a huge difference. I going in for the Internet service only. *shudder* The idea of leaving Tivo for one of their boxes....,not very likely.

joysbox


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## Justin Thyme

If you want a totally pro look for your DVDs, try a printer that will print directly onto your DVDs. I am told some kind of HP printer does the ones I burn for my community group, but Epson has them too eg. the R200.

Can't comment on how the Epson does, but the HP printed disks look commercial. I was surprized they were spending so much and then I found out it was just a inexpensive printer doing it. None of that paper adhesive kind of cheap look.


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## classicsat

That FCC doesn't work for me, in either Firefox or IE. It is getting condensed in the middle somehow.


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## Justin Thyme

Yep looks like they got mangled somehow. Thought I tested the dang things. Sorry.

//gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6518171130

or http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6518171130

I will try and correct the prior notes.


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## HDTiVo

HOT OFF THE WIRE PORTFOLIO NEWS - from Lycos Finance

Real Estate Marketing Now on the Apple(R) iPod(R)
- Dec 1, 2005 11:42 AM (BusinessWire)
- http://finance.lycos.com/home/news/story.asp?story=53594956

===========================================================================

RENO, Nev.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Dec. 1, 2005--Explicit Media Inc., a
multimedia marketing innovator with a focus on the real estate
industry, has enabled its Real Estate Home Show product for
downloading to the Apple(R) iPod(R).

Real estate agents and consumers may download videos of current
real estate home listings directly to their Apple(R) iPod(R) to allow
for portable marketing and viewing (Web site:
TheRealEstateHomeShow.com).

Pat Dulleck, a real estate broker for Realty World in San Jose,
Calif., has embraced video in the marketing of her office listings and
has been a customer of the Real Estate Home show product since its
introduction in May of this year. "My clients love the Featured
Listing Videos; I provide six images and a few details of the listing
and they create an incredible finished video product that has been a
tremendous aid to my marketing. Now that they have added the ability
to load the videos to my Apple iPod, it is absolutely awesome. I carry
the iPod with me at all times, it's easy to use and just dazzles
prospective clients as I am able to immediately provide them with
video details of all of my active listings; no matter where I am, I
never miss an opportunity to show a property, and it costs less than a
360 tour!"

Scott Le Force, president of Realty World Northern California &
Nevada Inc., states, "Cost-effective, progressive technology that is
cutting-edge. You can't get a WOW factor better than this for the
money."

"Our Featured Listing Videos are now reaching all of the senses.
They are viewable on the Web, on our national television show and now
the Apple iPod, taking marketing of home listings to an entirely new
level," says Greg Johnson, CEO of Explicit Media.

Apple, the Apple logo, iPod and iTunes are trademarks of Apple
Computer Inc. (NASDAQ:AAPL).

CONTACT: Explicit Media Inc.
Miles Johnson, 800-411-4471

[email protected]

SOURCE: Explicit Media Inc.


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## Justin Thyme

Yepp. Personal Video Players give new meaning to the term "pocket listings".

I would think any agent who shopped around would pass on the ipod though- going for a creative zen with twice the video playtime, or an Archos 700 with over 6 times the screen area.


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## joysbox

Working in this market (Wash DC Metro) you have different expectations on what you(agent) will bring to the table. Gizmos are nice and do give a "wow" factor but overall it is the personal connection between you and the customer that works the deal. 

I keep saying I want to do comercials or just more advertising, but the cost! and time! Now if I start getting those Million dollar listings, they will get the full treatment  Now someone come buy this house!

j


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## dt_dc

Justin Thyme said:


> * The only way to get HD is if you get the FIOS DVR- a DCT6414.


According to pricing sheets that have come out, Fios has the option of an HD STB ($9.99) or an HD DVR ($12.95).


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## Justin Thyme

Right you are. My statement was incorrect, and I shall have to go back and correct it. The I4U review asked what the HD STB was, and the response mentioned only the HD DVR. It did not explicitly say that there was not an HD STB.

This verizon document from July confirms the pricing :
3.95 for standard definition set top box ("STB") [ model DCT2500]
9.95 for high definition STB [model ???]
12.95 for High def STB/ DVR [model DCT6414]

I posted a query on dslreports.com where they were discussing Fios. They seem to have sustained interest in the subject. Maybe someone will eventually come up with the model number.


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## jsmeeker

which FiOS lineup did you see?? The one I saw for Wylie, TX was awesome. HD-wise, better than what Comcast had. I dunno what Dish offers, but does it offer all of the major locals in HD? (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, PBS, WB, UPN). The rest of the lineup looked really good to me as well.


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## Justin Thyme

I was remarking on the HD channels in addition to those which are available locally. Since that can change from city to city, I only refer to constant- which is the extra HD channels. And it didn't look that awesome to me. 

Regardless, I will definately get FIOS when it comes to my area if it had CC Tivo support. The chatter on avsforum seems to indicate much much higher data rates for their SD and HD channels, which makes a great deal of sense to me, since they have the bandwidth to burn, and it is an established pattern (dish and direct came out first with great PQ, then started compressing more and more in order to make room for more channels until we have the degraded pictures we have today).


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## wewilkinson

I will be getting FiosTv January 10th, 2006. I have three Tivo boxes, 1 Tivo-1 (Philips) and 2 Tivo-2 boxes. One series 2 box is connect to the network via cat5, the other connects to the network via a wireless card. Both boxes retrieve program info via the Internet which is through Fios (15/2M). I have used Tivo since 2001, and really like the service. So, I am very interested in the compatability between my Tivo boxes and the soon to be installed FiosTv. I will answer some/most of the questions asked in this forum as soon as I get the FiosTv and have had enough time to experiment (and ask questions). 

Wayne


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## texdoc

I got verizon fios installed yesterday (with the motorola 2500 box SD box). I already had a toshiba DVR/tivo that was working great, now it isn't.

Verizon said they didn't mess with Tivo boxes when they installed it.

I messed around with it and finally got a picture via tivo, but couldn't control the stations. It is driving me nuts and makes me want to go back to cable.

Can someone help out a non-technically inclined person how to get my TIVO to work with Verizon fios?


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## rsnaider

You most likely just need to re-run Guided Setup. This will tell TiVo you have a different line-up and configure TiVo to control the diffferent box.


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## m_jonis

What I'd like to know is there anyone out there with FIOS that's using a cable card?

If not, then I'm not sure I'd want to chance it with an $800-1000 Series 3 in the "hopes" that can I use a cable card with FIOS.

Yes, the Tivo may work with a set top box, but then you're stuck to recording one thing at a time (unless there's some magical way to get the STB to send both tuners to the Tivo somehow at the same time).

Which, IMO would pretty much negate the need for a Tivo (in my case), as it'd be better to use their DVR at that point.

But if anyone out there is using FIOS with Cable Card, it'd be great to know.


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## Generic

m_jonis said:


> What I'd like to know is there anyone out there with FIOS that's using a cable card?


Verizon is still working on setting up Cablecard 2.0 with their system. Here is an excerpt from a rumor site but the guy is pretty reliable. It also talks about Verizon and Tivo partnering up. http://www.longhornxp.net/Verizon.html



> Also CableCard 2.0 is on schedule but the ETA is still unknown and because VOD will be sent over the coax as data unlike cable Verizon is working with Tivo to allow the Tivo software to handle data over coax using MOCA. I've also heard that Tivo is willing todo this as they are looking at using MOCA for their multiroom service so shows can be sent over the existing coax cables. Tivo is looking at offering both SD and HD dual-tuner DVR boxes to offer a better user experience in the future. They will still support currect hookups along with the current multiroom viewing solution but this new solution will be the ideal one and one they hope will spur sales. They are hoping that with their new lease model that if a customer pays 1.99/month for a cablecard 2.0 card that the difference in price between this charge and their service fee won't be much different than the cost of the cable company DVR rental and DVR fees per box. Also I'm getting the walkaround on this like crazy but maybe just maybe Verizon might offer another brand DVR that could very well be these new Tivo boxes. Instead of being billed by Tivo you would be billed by Verizon but Tivo would get most of the money on it as it would be their box and not Verizon's. That doesn't stop Verizon from supporting the boxes themselves and fixing them as needed. All I can say is that Verizon is doing way too much talking with Tivo that I just know something more will come out of this. Right now Verizon's current DVR isn't doing so well which makes this type of partnership all the more likely.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Verizon + TiVo

TiVo using coax for MRV

That would be cool! Either, let alone both.


----------



## m_jonis

Generic said:


> Verizon is still working on setting up Cablecard 2.0 with their system. Here is an excerpt from a rumor site but the guy is pretty reliable. It also talks about Verizon and Tivo partnering up. http://www.longhornxp.net/Verizon.html


Well, apparently I've found one person on the avs forums that actually has the CC 1.0 with Verizon.

apparently Verizon is "new" to cable card and there's some kinks to be worked out (like the person had to have two separate visits from technicians who'd never installed one before and I believe it's working now, but no DD audio yet).

I'm not worried about Cable Card 2.0 as it'll be a LONG time before we see any of that (even from cable companies).

I just would rather use a Tivo DVR than anything else (and NOT have to go through a cable box so I can actually record two things at once).


----------



## ThreeSoFar

m_jonis said:


> I just would rather use a Tivo DVR than anything else (and NOT have to go through a cable box so I can actually record two things at once).


I'm already doing this. Multiple series 2's do this pretty nicely. We have six in the house, though a couple of those are extras.

And picture quality is not that big a deal. I don't mind waiting for an HDTiVo.

My confidence level is not high, though, that TiVo as a company will survive long enough to make buying the HD S3 worthwhile. **

** edit: though that's not going to stop me


----------



## passatdream

Has anyone been able to setup the Verizon FiOS service with their Tivo to watch one thing while recording another? I've tried to set it up and things that run through the cable box work and sound great. However, the video and audio that run directly to the tv are horrible. The video is fine, but the audio sounds like a skipping CD. Any advice?

Thanks,
C.


----------



## stevel

You would need two FIOS boxes for that, wouldn't you?


----------



## m_jonis

ThreeSoFar said:


> I'm already doing this. Multiple series 2's do this pretty nicely. We have six in the house, though a couple of those are extras.
> 
> And picture quality is not that big a deal. I don't mind waiting for an HDTiVo.
> 
> My confidence level is not high, though, that TiVo as a company will survive long enough to make buying the HD S3 worthwhile. **
> 
> ** edit: though that's not going to stop me


Yeah, I've got multiple Series 2 as well, but my gripe is having to go through the cable box to get all the channels. Almost $10/month here for the monthly rental on every cable box. $20/month plus 2 series-2 Tivo's (one's on lifetime, the other I left monthly at $7/month) brings the total to probably about $35/month.

If I had a Series 3 with dual cable cards, the cards would be $3.50/month (from TW, not sure what Verizon would charge) plus whatever for the Series 3. Of course, I'd still keep my lifetime Series 2.


----------



## musicforme

Just to clarify what others wrote in this thread, the infra-red blasters seem to work well with the Fios boxes? I sent an e-mail earlier today to a Verizon employee in Media Services and he's researching the serial port control for me (found his e-mail in a 2005 press release).

Verizon recently added The Golf Channel and I'm seriously taking a look at them now (some PGA events will be exclusive to TGC in the near future).

My wife would seriously injure me if our Tivo started having problems once we moved to Fios.


----------



## dt_dc

passatdream said:


> Has anyone been able to setup the Verizon FiOS service with their Tivo to watch one thing while recording another? I've tried to set it up and things that run through the cable box work and sound great. However, the video and audio that run directly to the tv are horrible. The video is fine, but the audio sounds like a skipping CD. Any advice?


You're running coax straight from the wall (or through a splitter) into an (_analog_) TV?

Call up Verizon and complain about your analog channel audio quality. If it truly "sounds like a skipping CD" the problem isn't fixable by you. A little static / fuzz / hiss / whatever ... the problem could be your in-house coax. The PQ probably isn't as good as it could be either ... it's just the audio problems ae just easier to pick up

If you're running coax straight into a _digital_ TV (QAM tuner) though ... the problem could be your TV (or in-house wiring or the splitter or somthing else fixable by you).


stevel said:


> You would need two FIOS boxes for that, wouldn't you?


No, Verizon carries analog versions of several channels. Less than (typical) cable. But ... they're still there. Coax straight into a TV ... good to go.


----------



## Sandlapper

Man, ifyou can get FIOS TV, you must able to get FIOS Internet. I would KILL to get that!


----------



## pmk2

My parents had verizon fios installed last week. According to my dad, this box was necessary for the computer TV tuner card to work (the cable out is connected to the computer). However, we received no software to change channels and the TV tuner card won't receive any of the digital channels (only the bottom 20 are tuned in and the card isn't required to be set to channel 3). So right now, it looks like they'll need to get a set top box for the PC to tune in everything.

Any idea what the box in the attached photo is for? It has a cable in, cable out, and an Ethernet connection. No IP address assignment is shown by my DHCP server's client list. Very odd.


----------



## Generic

pmk2 said:


> My parents had verizon fios installed last week. According to my dad, this box was necessary for the computer TV tuner card to work (the cable out is connected to the computer). However, we received no software to change channels and the TV tuner card won't receive any of the digital channels (only the bottom 20 are tuned in and the card isn't required to be set to channel 3). So right now, it looks like they'll need to get a set top box for the PC to tune in everything.
> 
> Any idea what the box in the attached photo is for? It has a cable in, cable out, and an Ethernet connection. No IP address assignment is shown by my DHCP server's client list. Very odd.


The black box is called a Network Interface Module and it is used for getting the guide, guide data and access to video on demand to the set top box. I don't know how it does it but that is what it is for.

The TV tuner card. Is that the cable card provided by Verizon or something that you already had? I am not too familar with either one but you will need a cable card provided by Verizon to access the digital channels. I think they are only charging about $2/mo for it.


----------



## TexasAg

Generic said:


> The black box is called a Network Interface Module and it is used for getting the guide, guide data and access to video on demand to the set top box. I don't know how it does it but that is what it is for.
> 
> The TV tuner card. Is that the cable card provided by Verizon or something that you already had? I am not too familar with either one but you will need a cable card provided by Verizon to access the digital channels. I think they are only charging about $2/mo for it.


From my understanding:
The Network Interface Module or "NIM" acts as a MOCA bridge - it gets data via IP and transmits it over coax to the set top boxes. When you use VOD, for example, Verizon uses IPTV to transmit the requested program to the NIM, which then transmits the program over coax to the set top box for display.

Fios only transmits channels 1-49 as in-the-clear analog. You'll need a set top box to get any higher channel.


----------



## emf958

Verizon Fios SUX unless you RENT a set top box (STB) for all your TV & Tivo's. For people like me (10 TV's & 2 Tivos) this adds up quick! Without the STB, Fios give a whopping 22 channels (and 3 aren't even in English!) Even with the STB, I was getting many, many more channels using cable. This on top of it took the techies 3 days, & 5 techs to get the setup working, and after they were finished, the 2 Tivo's fried! These were brand new! Some BS about the signal being too strong, but just TRY getting money outta Verizon to replace them!


----------



## terryfoster

emf958 said:


> Verizon Fios SUX unless you RENT a set top box (STB) for all your TV & Tivo's. For people like me (10 TV's & 2 Tivos) this adds up quick! Without the STB, Fios give a whopping 22 channels (and 3 aren't even in English!) Even with the STB, I was getting many, many more channels using cable. This on top of it took the techies 3 days, & 5 techs to get the setup working, and after they were finished, the 2 Tivo's fried! These were brand new! Some BS about the signal being too strong, but just TRY getting money outta Verizon to replace them!


Yeah, most of that sounds like BS to me.


----------



## daneyul

The FIOS STB's don't have the Serial port's enabled, which means channel changing is via the agonizingly slow IR cables.

Anyone with TIVO who plans to get FIOS should call to make their voice heard on them implementing the serial ports via firmware. Without it, the Tivo/FIOS combination is crippled.

Fios TV tech support number: (888) 553-1555


----------



## stevel

Verizon may not care about TiVo.



> Verizon Communications plans to offer a digital video recorder that allows its TV customers to watch recorded programs on multiple TVs in any room in the house, the company said Monday.
> 
> The new multiroom DVR, made by Motorola, lets customers view recorded programs on up to three televisions at once. The media hub, called the Home Media DVR, also functions as a dual-tuner DVR, which allows customers to watch one program while recording another.
> 
> Customers using the multiroom DVR will pay $19.95 per month, plus $3.95 per month for each standard-definition set-top box that will be used to receive recorded video from the DVR.


http://news.com.com/Verizon+adds+multiroom+DVR/2100-1034_3-6105226.html

Sheesh - and people complain about TiVo's $12.95/mo... Apparently Verizon offers a single-channel DVR for, you guessed it, $12.95/mo.


----------



## TexasAg

stevel said:


> Verizon may not care about TiVo.
> 
> http://news.com.com/Verizon+adds+multiroom+DVR/2100-1034_3-6105226.html
> 
> Sheesh - and people complain about TiVo's $12.95/mo... Apparently Verizon offers a single-channel DVR for, you guessed it, $12.95/mo.


Not sure what you meant by "single channel." The Motorola DVR is dual-tuner.

The Motorola box only buffers one channel and you can't jump between tuners, though. I miss my DirecTV Tivo, which let me jump back and forth between two channels without "recording" anything.


----------



## stanindenton

I read this entire thread and there was no solution to the problem of getting my TIVO to work with Fios. It definitely doesn't work!!! I've had the Verizon techs tell me several different stories from "We don't suppot TIVO" to "TIVO does not work with Fios" to "Sure it works, we get these questions all the time. Try this...".
IT DOESN'T WORK!!! The TIVO techs know even less. Does anyone have any solution?

The service is awesome and is making me think of getting rid of my TIVO, which I desperately do not want to do.

HELP!!!


----------



## jdavidson

StanInDenton;

I have two Sony SVR-3000 boxes I am using with my Verizon FiOS service. In both cases I have the incoming signal running through my cablebox (Motorola QIP-2500, which will *not* work with a serial cable), then to the TiVo boxes, then to the TV. 

In both cases I had to dig up some old IR blasters in order to get this to work. Before finding them I tried about every store in Flower Mound and Lewisville, no one carries them. (I did have one service guy at the stereo shop next to Coker Carpets on I-35 offer to bring in some from his own home though.)

While I use to run all of my TiVos on channel 4, some conflict with the FiOS set-up caused me to change to channel 3 in order to get it to work on Box 1. 

On Box 2 I have a splitter before the cable box, sending the TiVo to Video Input #1 and a plain FiOS signal to the TV. This allows for a reduced channel set while the TiVo is recording something else. 

Note, everytime FiOS sends a software update they restart the cablebox. EXCEPT, the Motorola QIP-2500 does not automatically turn itself back on. Therefore, unless you see the power light is off you may be missing shows for a few hours or days. Verizon's customer service has no clue about changing this. 

RE: the serial cable and the QIP-2500, I spent a bit of time on the phone, even pointing them to Motorola's online documentation for the cablebox. They admitted to knowing nothing about the features of the box or what was and was not enabled.

Best of luck,
~JeffreyInFlowerMound


----------



## JohnBrowning

stanindenton said:


> I read this entire thread and there was no solution to the problem of getting my TIVO to work with Fios. It definitely doesn't work!!! I've had the Verizon techs tell me several different stories from "We don't suppot TIVO" to "TIVO does not work with Fios" to "Sure it works, we get these questions all the time. Try this...".
> IT DOESN'T WORK!!! The TIVO techs know even less. Does anyone have any solution?
> 
> The service is awesome and is making me think of getting rid of my TIVO, which I desperately do not want to do.
> 
> HELP!!!


Can you be a bit more specific about what doesn't work? It works fine at my house. I have the Moto box connected to the TiVo over S-video and component audio cables. Same connection from the TiVo to the TV. Unfortunately, have to use the IR blaster since the serial port on the Moto is not enabled. When you run guided setup, you have to select "Verizon - Keller" as the channel lineup. Have you tried to test all of your connections and cables? That might be a place to start.

Tom in Plano


----------



## Cgrisamore

Standalone Series 2 working just fine in Flower Mound with Verizon FIOS. The Tivo has its own set top box which is being controlled with the IR blaster (ordered the cables from TIVO). On the day of the install, I just redid guided setup and it's been flawless ever since. Channel changing with the IR control is a bit slow but since I pretty much exclusively watch recorded content, this is not a problem for me. I have not missed a single program.


----------



## musicforme

As I mentioned a couple weeks ago, I exchanged e-mails with a public relations person at Verizon. He wrote me the following last week:

_I apologize for the delay in responding, but these are busy times at
Verizon as we roll out new FiOS TV services like Home Media DVR. I sent
your message to the FiOS TV product management team, and they are now
considering your request. If they find that this function can be enabled,
they would first need to test it extensively in Verizon's network before
making it available to customers. Another company's experience with the
function in their network may be different from ours since they use
different STBs. I'm sorry we can't give you a more definitive answer now,
but your request has reached the right people. We appreciate your interest
in FiOS TV, and I will follow up with you when I have more information._

At least the proper people are now aware that we want the ability to control the cable boxes with our Tivos via the serial port.


----------



## TampaDon

Hi.

I'm near Tampa, Florida and got FIOS TV installed a month ago. I have three of the Motorola QIP2500-2 STB's and 3 Series 2 TIVO's. They worked from day one with the IR blaster cables. Haven't had a problem.

Don


----------



## daneyul

It depends on what you define as a problem. 

To me, it's a problem that it takes so long to change channels with the IR blasters.

And...the fact that it can't keep up when the up/down channel buttons are pressed (and that it can get lost if you try) is a problem to me too. 

And I consider it a problem that a perfectly good serial port on the STB unit is there for expressly this purpose (allowing another device to signal channel changes) but Verizon has seen fit to not implement it with a few lines of code and a day of testing.


----------



## daneyul

stanindenton said:


> I read this entire thread and there was no solution to the problem of getting my TIVO to work with Fios. It definitely doesn't work!!! I've had the Verizon techs tell me several different stories from "We don't suppot TIVO" to "TIVO does not work with Fios" to "Sure it works, we get these questions all the time. Try this...".
> IT DOESN'T WORK!!! The TIVO techs know even less. Does anyone have any solution?
> 
> The service is awesome and is making me think of getting rid of my TIVO, which I desperately do not want to do.
> 
> HELP!!!


Jeez... I don't want to be mean...but without saying a word about what problem you're having, what in the world do you expect to get from this forum? Are we supposed to play 20 questions to dig out what's happening? Do you think we're all clairvoyant and will automatically know exactly what you've tried and what problems your seeing? Sheesh! How can somebody expect others to try to help them with a problem when they won't even take the time to describe the problem they're having?????


----------



## robertq

I recently got FIOS here in Massachusetts and love the service. However, I do miss the DirecTivo I had with DirecTV. (I had to cancel DirecTV because the trees finally blocked my signal to the satellite).

I was hoping to purchase a single Series 2 DT and connect two FIOS STB boxes to it via composite out/in. However, it appears that the Series 2 DT only supports one composite in (and one remote port), so it appears that I have to purchase two single tuners Tivo's to get the dual tuner functionality. Is this correct?

If so, is it possible to play the output from one Tivo through the other? The problem with two tivo's is that you would have to manually program each one, and resolving conflicts becomes a much harder problem.

However, it looks like the Series 3 Tivo with CC will be the preferred way to go. With HD content and two tuners, I'll have the same functionality (with HD to boot) as my old DirectTivo. Will this box have two tuners in it? 

For now, I'm using the Motorola DVR and it works OK. But it's not a Tivo, and my wife reminds of this every time she uses it.

Thanks,
RQS.


----------



## megazone

Yes, the S3 is dual-tuner.


----------



## bager7

I just got Fios installed, but cannot get it to work with my TiVo. I went out and bought an IR Blaster, but TiVo says they need the IR-Code for the Motorola 2500-2 to make it work. 

You guys that have your blasters working, what code did you use?


----------



## bkdtv

Pick a Motorola STB in the 2000 series. They all use the same IR codes.


----------



## dorius

I have just upgraded to an HDTV and HD FIOS and have the following components: 
1. TV reception through FIOS HD box that has 1 composite, 1 component, 1 HDMI and 1 S video outlets
2. Standard TIVO -series2 with 2 composite, 1 S video, RF In and RF Out outlets
3. VCR recorder/DVD player combo with 2 composite, 1 component, 1 S video, and 1 Digital Audio Out PCM/Bitstream Optical outlets
4. HDTV with 2 composite, 2 component, 1 HDMI and 1 S video outlets.

The current cables and connections are:

1.	HDMI cable from FIOS box to TV. 
2.	Composite cables from FIOS box to TIVO
3.	Composite cables from TIVO to TV
4.	Coaxial cable from TV to RF In TIVO
5.	Coaxial cable from RF Out TIVO to In/ant VCR/DVD

What are the best cables to use to improve the picture on my TV? 

Also is it possible to set these connections up two ways - one running from FIOS - TIVO - TV and another from FIOS - VCR - TV? I am concerned that I am not getting the best picture quality under the current set up since I have an HDTV and HD FIOS as well as a series 2 TIVO. I love my TIVO but am not willing to buy a $700 HD TIVO.


----------



## Einselen

I just have to say I skimmed through this entire thread right now and this is the thread that never dies. It was brought back to life so many time.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

dorius said:


> I have just upgraded to an HDTV and HD FIOS and have the following components:
> 1. TV reception through FIOS HD box that has 1 composite, 1 component, 1 HDMI and 1 S video outlets
> 2. Standard TIVO -series2 with 2 composite, 1 S video, RF In and RF Out outlets
> 3. VCR recorder/DVD player combo with 2 composite, 1 component, 1 S video, and 1 Digital Audio Out PCM/Bitstream Optical outlets
> 4. HDTV with 2 composite, 2 component, 1 HDMI and 1 S video outlets.
> 
> The current cables and connections are:
> 
> 1.	HDMI cable from FIOS box to TV.
> 2.	Composite cables from FIOS box to TIVO
> 3.	Composite cables from TIVO to TV
> 4.	Coaxial cable from TV to RF In TIVO
> 5.	Coaxial cable from RF Out TIVO to In/ant VCR/DVD
> 
> What are the best cables to use to improve the picture on my TV?
> 
> Also is it possible to set these connections up two ways - one running from FIOS - TIVO - TV and another from FIOS - VCR - TV? I am concerned that I am not getting the best picture quality under the current set up since I have an HDTV and HD FIOS as well as a series 2 TIVO. I love my TIVO but am not willing to buy a $700 HD TIVO.


When you use "composite" above, do you mean audio and video? Good--otherwise no sound.

When you use "composite" above, do you mean a yellow video cable or an S-Video cable? The latter is better quality.

Remove both of those Coax cables--4 & 5. #4 is backwards--from an "in" to another "in". #5 is duplicative and lower quality than your either composite or S-Video.


----------



## eric2000000

Just had FIOS installed with a Motorola QIP 2500-3 in eastern MA. I had the same serial port issue described in the previous threads. I ran setup again on my series 2 Tivo using the IR cable and was successful in getting the Tivo to change channel on the cable box.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

So does FIOS support cablecards and the series 3 or not?

Oh--apparently it does, according to the S3 FAQ:


> Does the S3 work with Verizon FiOS?
> Yes. Verizon supports CableCARD with FiOS.


Can anyone with it working confirm that?


----------



## Einselen

ThreeSoFar said:


> So does FIOS support cablecards and the series 3 or not?


I know you can rent cable cards from Verizon so don't see why not.


----------



## dmbfan36_23

ThreeSoFar said:


> So does FIOS support cablecards and the series 3 or not?
> 
> Oh--apparently it does, according to the S3 FAQ:Can anyone with it working confirm that?


I just had FiOS TV installed in Marlboro today and I got a cable card for my HDTV. They started offering cable cards this week.


----------



## Atomic409

Hi, north dallas TIVO newbie here. I hope you can help with this.

Can't get any of my TIVOs to control the channel on Verizon FiOS boxes.

I have 2500-1 and 2500-3 boxes and tivos 24004A and 24008A and neither tivo will control any of the 2500 boxes I have.

Please tell me what codes work to control the 2500 boxes.

I've tried codes 10005, 10006, 10019, 10032, 10035, 10042, and 10046.

Please help!


----------



## Generic

Atomic409 said:


> Hi, north dallas TIVO newbie here. I hope you can help with this.
> 
> Can't get any of my TIVOs to control the channel on Verizon FiOS boxes.
> 
> I have 2500-1 and 2500-3 boxes and tivos 24004A and 24008A and neither tivo will control any of the 2500 boxes I have.


Mine worked when I used the guided setup. There is only one thing that I can think of that might be your problem. If you are trying to use the serial port with Tivo then it will not work. Verizon has not activated the serial port for whatever reason. You will have to use the IR devices if that is the case with you.


----------



## dcpmark

Okay, by now it seems that some S2 owners have been able to use serial control of the Moto QIP2500 box. I, however, have a S1 which perfectly controlled my old DTV STB via the serial port. I've now switched to FIOS, but I can't even find the OPTION to set up the serial connection! I have followed all instructions re troubleshooting "Changing Channels," and have repeated Guided Setup....twice. When I select Motorola as my cable set top box, it goes right to the IR setup screen. I have no choice to select IR or Serial.

Any help?


----------



## SVMastTransit

I have no Verizon line in my house. Got rid of it and will not go to Fios. All you guys who are seriously looking at it should try to remember what it was like dealing with Verizon. You are getting a taste of it when you try to find out if Fios is available in your neighborhood. Good luck.


----------



## ChrisL

I think it's a whole new ballgame dealing with Verizon FiOS. Last month, Consumer Reports surveys showed FiOS service and customer service is ahead of cable by a wide margin.

As far as availability.... you don't replace a 120 year old network overnight. Are you old enough to remember how long it took the cableco's to deploy their networks? Years.


----------



## bilbo

motorola qip2500 does work with serial in some areas.

i have a quip2500-3 from verizon (fios) and a humax series2 tivo.



jdavidson said:


> StanInDenton;
> 
> I have two Sony SVR-3000 boxes I am using with my Verizon FiOS service. In both cases I have the incoming signal running through my cablebox (Motorola QIP-2500, which will *not* work with a serial cable), then to the TiVo boxes, then to the TV.
> 
> In both cases I had to dig up some old IR blasters in order to get this to work. Before finding them I tried about every store in Flower Mound and Lewisville, no one carries them. (I did have one service guy at the stereo shop next to Coker Carpets on I-35 offer to bring in some from his own home though.)
> 
> While I use to run all of my TiVos on channel 4, some conflict with the FiOS set-up caused me to change to channel 3 in order to get it to work on Box 1.
> 
> On Box 2 I have a splitter before the cable box, sending the TiVo to Video Input #1 and a plain FiOS signal to the TV. This allows for a reduced channel set while the TiVo is recording something else.
> 
> Note, everytime FiOS sends a software update they restart the cablebox. EXCEPT, the Motorola QIP-2500 does not automatically turn itself back on. Therefore, unless you see the power light is off you may be missing shows for a few hours or days. Verizon's customer service has no clue about changing this.
> 
> RE: the serial cable and the QIP-2500, I spent a bit of time on the phone, even pointing them to Motorola's online documentation for the cablebox. They admitted to knowing nothing about the features of the box or what was and was not enabled.
> 
> Best of luck,
> ~JeffreyInFlowerMound


----------



## stevel

I've been much happier dealing with Verizon than with Comcast.


----------



## GoHokies!

stevel said:


> I've been much happier dealing with Verizon than with Comcast.


I haven't been able to switch over yet, but can look out my window and see the Verizon workers pulling cable on the next street over, so I'm pretty excited.

I think that it is completely impossible for the FIOS customer service to be any worse than Comcast. I've also had nothing but good interactions with the Verizon Wireless CSR's.


----------



## stevel

Well, I love FiOS Internet service and it has cleaned up the sound of the POTS phone line we have. Unfortunately, FiOS TV is not available in our state due to the difficulty in negotiations with individual towns and cities. Maybe someday. In the meantime, DirecTV works for me.


----------



## kermit24

I have had Verizon FIOS TV for a couple of months now, and I am very happy. There is a significant software upgrade coming (as well as a DVR web remote) to the STBs, but I am still considering getting 2 CableCards from Verizon for an S3 Tivo...

Anyone out there have FIOS with an S3 Tivo? How is it? The SD and HD PQ is OUTSTANDING with FIOS. I have had DirecTV and Dish, and the PQ kills them. Especially the overcompressed SD PQ.


----------



## bilbo

yes, i have an s3, and verizon should have enough bandwidth add tons of hd channels when the content is available. 20-25 channels is pretty limiting; however, i am almost glad that i don't look at most of the 300-400 sd channels i get because sorting through all of those is/would be mind-numbing.

i do get some short (0.25 seconds to 1.0 second) audio dropouts, but i was having at least the same amount of audio dropouts with verizon's high def dvr (so either both boxes weren't perfect and/or the source isn't perfect). i am using a pretty highly rated (d.h. labs -- approximately $50) optical digital audio cable to my receiver. component video cables are going from s3 to yamaha receiver.



kermit24 said:


> I have had Verizon FIOS TV for a couple of months now, and I am very happy. There is a significant software upgrade coming (as well as a DVR web remote) to the STBs, but I am still considering getting 2 CableCards from Verizon for an S3 Tivo...
> 
> Anyone out there have FIOS with an S3 Tivo? How is it? The SD and HD PQ is OUTSTANDING with FIOS. I have had DirecTV and Dish, and the PQ kills them. Especially the overcompressed SD PQ.


----------



## wkc

I've been using s3 with verizon fios as well. No problem so far. The tech really didn't know anything about how to install cable cards. I had to show him.


----------



## wdave

Had Fios (phone/TV/internet) installed Friday. Everything works great.

Fios TV works great with the S3 and cable cards.
Picture quality is excellent, noticeably better than cable for analog, digital, and HD channels.
Fios Internet rocks at 15Mb/2Mb, soon to be increased to 20Mb/4Mb said the installer.
Fios Phone is better sounding and clearer.
I'm paying less than I was with Comcast.


----------



## RGEDad

I recently had Verizon FIOS installed in Marlborough, MA. It had been recently approved in the town.

I had recently moved to my new locations (Dec 06) and had Comcast installed as that is what the previous renter had and the landlord was comfortable with that service and the cabling was already there (and FIOS was not yet available). What I wanted was just Internet and Cable (I am wireless on my home phone). I did not want, or need, the package deal. The Comcast introductory package (Internet, Cable, Phone) was the cheapest way to get what I wanted, I knew I did not want to pay the rates after the introductory period.

Verizon FIOS came along (Door to Door sales) and offered Internet (at a higher bandwidth  lower cost) and TV service at a reduced total rate from what I was paying the Comcast package rate. 

Installation went fine. They installed the interface box discussed in other areas except that they had a new box that installed inside the house instead of on the exterior wall. 

The installers had not done a cable card into a TIVO box before (or any cable card install). The first issue they had was that the cards had never been entered into the Verizon system (They had been in a box in the service area that had only had one card pulled from before). Once the cards were put into the Verizon database the installation continued. The terms used in the installers manual did not exactly match the terminology presented to them on the TIVO screen so that got them a bit confused (remember this was their first time and as it turned out the TIVO supplied more information than they actually needed). Once we got through that (and the fire alarm in the central office that cleared out that building and put us on hold for 45 minutes) things went well. They did note that they did not think that Verizon had enough people in the central office to handle all of the installation going on and they were frequently on hold for considerable periods during the installation process. A point they were somewhat vocal about to me.

The installers acknowledged that they had about 5 minutes training and one run through of a Cable card install during the training and had not done it since then. I had done considerable research on the subject as was able to provide guidance on what they were looking for. 

As far as Picture Quality is concerned I am absolutely delighted. I have had no picture drop-outs and it is rock solid. I have little to compare to as I moved from a 27 CRT / TIVO S2 / Comcast to a 60 HDTV / TIVO S3 / FIOS in one day (TV was delivered that same day & the TIVO S3 the day before). I had a number of people over for the Superbowl and they were all astounded at the picture. Several already had large TV systems but remarked how great this looked in comparison. 

With the TIVO S3 Cable Card install I do lose the interactive service (Video on Demand) but I never used those when I had them so that is not a big loss to me. I understand I can call in to order PPV but again in the 8 years I have had cable I have ordered one PPV item so that is not a loss for me. I love the dual tuner and the lack of frustration of missing shows due to conflicts.

Internet service is solid. I had the lower bandwidth ordered 2 Up/ 5 down an it is consistently running 5 Up / 5 down. More than fast enough for what I do. D-Link box went in easy and has been operating without issue. I have 2 TIVOs hard wired and 2 computers via wireless.

All in all I am a happy camper  Very Glad I made the switch


----------



## rvs57lin

Justin Thyme said:


> Whenever FIOS gets to your street, it seems likely to me that Tivo will work with FIOS will work in at least one way of hooking it up (via the cable ready connection).
> 
> Good point. I didn't even think about remapping. Good thing someone here knows something about cable. It seems to me that with the infrastructure all laid out, if this was all the obstacle was to saying Tivo is FIOS compatible, you'd see the listings updated in a heartbeat if remapping is in fact an issue. All iof this is Dallas area so it doesn't seem much more than a single new numeric list enterred into the database.
> 
> I am curious about whether the IR blaster controls work with the FIOS $4 reciever box. It seems to me that the 7.2 setup software should not have any trouble with it, but I am only guessing.
> 
> Does anyone have a Tivo hooked up to FIOS video? Coax or STB? What is model number of your motorolla box?


--- YES I HAVE A TIVO BOX HOOKED UP TO MY FIOS INPUT AND IT WORKS GREAT. ALL I DO IS GO TO RECORD MENU WHEN I;M ON TIVO AND SELKECT WHAT EVER I HAVE RECORDED OR WHAT EBVER I WANT TO RECORD JUST LIKE I DID BEFORE I GOT FIOS. I ELECTED TO GO WITH THE FIOS DVR AND I DO PAY $12,95 /MO. WOULD TAKE AWHILE TO MAKE UP THR COST OF THE NEW PHASE 3 TIVO AT $1000.00. IT WPOULD BE NICE IF I COULD RECORD ONTO A CD FROM FIOS BUY I Cannot?????/


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## rtinker

I'll throw my experience in here pertaining to central Maryland.

First of all, if you do not get FiOS telephone, then support is a PITB. We had MCI for one of our phone lines and VZ did not have their stuff together w/r/t how that would work post MCI/VZ merger, so we left things alone. However, every time I call for support they have a terrible time finding our account since our phone number is not FiOS based.

So the initial install for Internet went pretty well, and I started off NOT having TV since I discovered that there were only 14 analog channels and all others required a decoder box or card. I have several TVs, and that many cable boxes would have made FiOS more expensive than even Comcast.

When I got my S3, Comcast pissed me off big time and I decided then and there to get FiOS TV. I also realized that since my TiVOs are modulated (they appear as a "channel" in the house) that I really only needed a cable box per TiVo, not per-TV.

So I have 1-S2 Humax box, 2-S2 TiVo DT Boxes, and 1-S3 TiVo DT Box. I have the Motorola 2500 cable boxes and use the serial control cable with them and it works fine.

The install of the cable cards in the S3 did not go like clockwork, which was due to the inexperience of VZ with the TiVO and the fact that they had an experienced guy in the field working with a person back at a VZ building that was new. After waiting a long time for the cards to be programmed by the new person, the tech gave up and used his laptop to program them himself - why they just don't do that all the time I have no idea.

So here is the rub - after a few weeks, I started to get programs recorded only on my S3 that were corrupted, would lock up during playback, and in very many cases would in fact reboot the TiVo. With its extremely long startup time, there is nothing more frustrating than having more than 5 minutes of two shows it was recording at the time lost due to a reboot of the box because it encountered digital data it did not like. This is because the S3 does not "cook" the data it receives at all - it dumps it to the hard drive directly, so if it has errors in it, then during playback is when it freaks out about it. This is an issue that TiVo definitely has to do something about because the reality is that there will be signal problems from time to time and the S3 should be able to deal with them better.

Nonetheless the real problem with this situation came when I tried to get support to fix it. TiVo pointed the finger at the cable company, the cable company pointed the finger at TiVo. I got frustrated very fast. I eventually spoke with somebody at TiVo who told me how/why it can happen and that if I ran for several days without using any of the cable decoded recordings and the problem did not appear again, then the TiVo box is OK and the problem is definitely with FiOS TV. As a strong TiVo follower, how was I suppose to go without recording hardly anything for several days to test that?? I already told them that it appeared to happen more with HD recordings and so I suspected it was some sort of software performance problem like what plagues the stupid Humax boxes. Anyway, after discovering it happening on a non-HD channel that was outside the analog range of the cable (in other words, it used the cable card) I decided I would pursue the issue with Verizon some more. I got a good natured, smart technician who while initially did try to send me back to TiVo, he remembered that if the cable cards were not installed properly, there can be problems like this, and so he wanted to reset the cards. The amazing thing to me was that he said that resetting the cards can actually do a lot to correct problems like data corruption in the decryption of the signal. I was floored - I started off asking for two replacement cable cards and instead allowed him to talk me into getting the cards reset and trying things for a few days again.

Well, surprisingly it looks like that may have actually worked. I was very hesitent to switch my recordings back to using the HD channels like I used to have (I recorded everything on the HD channel if it was available before this problem) but I definitely have not experienced the problem again and have watched several shows on channels above 49, which in the case of FiOS TV here is where the analog ends and the cable cards have to be used.

All-in-all the FiOS experience for TV has not been too bad, and I definitely think in the long run it will be better than Comcast because I know that the level of professionalism and training between the two when it comes to the people they send to your home is as different as night and day. When Comcast came to install, they sent a guy who had just completed training and they sent him by himself, and he did not know how to do some things. I ended up helping him to avoid having to have the install re-scheduled when another person could come out. When I got a HD cable box from Comcast, the guy they sent out barely spoke English and had been in the country only 6 months - I have nothing against this, but it did make speaking with him much more difficult. With Verizon, the technician was smart, professional, had all the right tools, and in the case of my TV install where a coax splitter was bad, they stayed well into the evening and called in help (so I had 2 people on site) to try to get the issue resolved - very professional and determined.

That's my $0.02 worth - the missing features on the S3 are a big pain, but an even bigger pain is its inability to deal with data corruption in the incoming signal, so I sincerely hope they address this - it is one of those things where like the TiVo Prayer in another thread on this board states - you can go instantly from loving your TiVO to wanting to beat it to pieces with a baseball bat for making you miss your favorite show! I am one of those people who would have been MUCH happier with a 2-tuner S3 having two sets of line-level (component) or DVI/HDMI inputs using two cable boxes than the cable cards. The reason is that the cable box would filter the data corruption from the TiVo. Sure the TiVo would need more horsepower to encode the video signal, but hey - I prefer reliability over more profit for TiVo.


----------



## Hogie

Okay I did a search on Fios and figured I'd ask my questions here. I read most of this thread and really have no idea what anyone is talking about.

Right now I have a simple S2 DT tivo and comcast BASIC cable. Right now everything is simple. Cable to tivo to TV.

In about a week I'm going to be switching to Fios when a new HD TV arrives. I don't even know what a cable card is but apparently that's how it's going to work with the Fios. Since there will be no set top box I'm wondering how (IF) my DT tivo will work with the new setup? I'm scared to death there will be some issue and my tivo won't work or I'll lose one of the tuners or I'll be able to record only like 20 channels.

So how exactly does this setup work? Again, I have no idea what a cable card is. I know I'm such a novice but I AM a guy and I know a lot about sports I swear.


----------



## stevel

CableCARD is relevant only if you switch to a TiVo Series 3. Otherwise you're dealing with a "cable box" with your TiVo S2. You can use a splitter on the FiOS feed into their box, run it to the RF in of the S2-DT and tune in channels 49 and under. You'll need to configure the IR emitter for the box for the main input.


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## smilex3md

Hi - I am considering getting FIOS TV, we do have FIOS Internet. We have 1 HDTV and 2 older TVs. We also have 2 S2 Tivo's. With our Comcast cable, we use a cable splitter to connect to our S2 Tivo as well as to the TV. This allows us to watch one program while recording another without using a Tivo with a dual tuner. Does anyone know if this type of configuration is possible with the standard FIOS set top box (STB)? 

Thanks, I have scoured this thread but saw nothing that mentioned using cable splitters with the FIOS STB.


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## rtinker

To elaborate a little and clarify... The TiVO cannot use two cable boxes at once, and so one of the tuners will take the cable feed directly, and it will only tune the analog (< 49 in Howard County) channels, and the other tuner will use the line level inputs (RCA red, white, yellow cable) from the cable box and it will be able to get all channels. So, you need to split your cable - one goes directly into the RF in on your S2, the other goes to the RF in on the cable box, and then the output of the cable box goes to the line in on the S2.

What I should mention is that with the Motorola cable box I got with my installation, I was able to use the serial control cable. Both methods of controlling the cable box will work and both cables came with your TiVO, but if the cable box has a serial port, it is definitely better to use that one. One reason is that occasionally when Verizon does some maintenance or reprogramming, it causes all of the cable boxes to power off. With the IR control, the TiVO I don't think can detect this and turn the boxes back on, but since using the serial control I have not had that problem (perhaps it has nothing to do with the serial control, but that is how it appears anyway). So try to use the serial control cable if possible -- seems to work much better.

smilex3md - Yes, you can split the cable - it is just like Comcast's signal but with fewer analog channels. Your regular TVs can get the basic channels (major networks and a few other things) without a cable box, but for most of the content you do need the cable box.


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## ferreter

Does anyone know how many analog channels are offered in Fairfax County, VA (Reston specifically)? Is there a listing somewhere?


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## rtinker

It is probably very similar everywhere, but to find out, go to the Verizon website with a slash fiostv at the end, then go to channel lineup and put in your state and area or city - if your area is not listed, choose the one closest as you will probably get a lineup that is the same in your area.
(Sorry I could not put the website properly - I do not yet have 5 posts so I cannot do a link in my post!)

I spoke with a Verizon rep at a tradeshow last fall and he said that the 14 channels (under channel 50 in the lineup) of analog won't increase because of the move to all digital - supposedly you cannot even buy a TV anymore without a digital compatible tuner. Older TVs are OK because there is always the cable box, but Series 2 DT TiVOs could be hurting with their inability to use two cable boxes. Sure an S3 gets around this, but it sure is at a premium price.


----------



## MPScan

I have an S2 DT with FIOS TV that has been working like clockwork for the past 9 months. My S2 is hooked to the Motorola FIOS cable box via serial. However, about a few days ago, the TIVO stopped changing channels on the cable box. 

I can still use the analog stations even with dual tuner, but the Tivo simply can't change the channel on the cable box anymore. It just seemingly happened overnight one day. 

Any ideas? Was there a TIVO update pushed out and is this a known issue from that update ... or do you think somehow Verizon upgraded the firmware of the Motorola box?


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## GoHokies!

It was probably an "update" from Verizon on the cable box.

Dig out your IR cables and use them.


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## DFWDave

I have two S2 Tivos with FIOS. Same thing happened to me on one of the Tivos, but not the other. I swapped out the Verizon STB on the one that wasn't working and it made no difference.

Looks like software on both sets are identical, but one works and one doesn't. Very odd!

Both S2 boxes are at 8.1a-01-2-140.

The STB Guide Build is 13.19 (5882S)
Build Type DCT-FE-1.7H
PlatformID 210
GIOS 18.24 
EPG Files 14


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## rtinker

I have 3 TiVOs using the Motorola (2500?) boxes, 2 by TiVO and 1 by Humax, all using the serial cable, and none are experiencing any problems with the channels.

A lot of the brains of the STBs comes over the network though, so perhaps the boxes just need to be reset by Verizon.


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## DFWDave

In my prior post I mentioned that one STB was still accepting channel changes via serial, well that is over now. This is one bad experience in a series of stellar ones with FIOS.


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## rtinker

OK - I just experienced my first failure of the serial cable.

I don't want to have to go back to infrared. Does anybody know for certain whether it is the Motorola box or the TiVO that broke this? (I am pretty sure I know the answer, but want to make sure.)

I already have a request in with Verizon for them to ask Motorola for an "always on" feature in the set top box so that when enabled and they do those service resets that the box will turn itself back on. They have done this to my home 3 times now where all of the cable boxes are reset and then left in the OFF position, so it is not until we go to watch our programs in the evening that we discover that nothing recorded since the boxes have been off all day.


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## Anarchus

FiOS broadband user for 15 months here in PA; have have DirecTV and TIVO2 for about 2-3 years.

PA just allowed television/video over Fios last November and in February Verizon rolled it out in my 'hood and I got it last week for one TV only. Very nice.

To stay married I had to keep the DirecTV SD and TIVO up and running for a while until I either figure out how to do FiOS with TIVO3.

I'm in the investing business and have a field trip out to the Motorola "Connected Home" division in Horsham in a short while - that's the old General Instrument operation that MOT acquired a few years back. 

Anyway, geek observations, questions and input pre-trip are most welcome (but no, guests are not allowed . . . . . . . maybe next time!).


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## ashu

Ask them if their software developers ever considered hara-kiri?


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## rtinker

I have a problem in that every time Verizon does service on the system, or perhaps it is service updates for the set top boxes, they reset the boxes and when they are done, the end up being "off". When this happens, it doesn't matter whether they are controlled with IR from the TiVO or use the serial cable from the TiVO, they ain't gonna change to the channel because the box is off! When they do this in the morning and you don't discover it until the evening, it is an entire day's worth of recordings shot to hell.

Thus, I contacted Verizon and instead of getting somebody helpful, I got somebody who said that he would note the feature request to provide the ability for the STB to have an "always on" option, but that I should contact Motorola as well. I thought that was pretty rude - it was like getting a GM rental car when on a trip and it breaks down, so the rental car company tells me to contact GM as well...

Anyway, I actually DID contact Motorola and they told me that those STBs (QIP2500) are like computer hardware - it is Verizon that builds the software platform running on them, thus Verizon would have to build that feature.

Likewise now with the serial port issue - it is Verizon that chose to send a new version of the STB firmware down the lines that now disabled the serial ports on all 3 of my STBs connected to TiVO boxes - yes, after happily reporting that I was using all serial control, I now have NONE.

Verizon FiOS is really starting to piss me off - combine all of this with the fact that they have steadily increased their price since they first started, and I begin to wonder if perhaps the hassles and stupidity of Comcast may very well be worth it again because at least with them, I had 40-some analog channels and did not need STBs on my TiVOs.

So to make a long story a bit longer.... My "ask Motorola" bit would be to suggest to them that in their base firmware, or in the firmware that they give the cable providers as example code, have a feature that if the cable box was on when a reset command was sent that it returns to an on state after the reset is finished.


----------



## ottomatic

I refuse to pay $4 per box. Is there a fee for cable cards (per month or one time)?

When will I be able to get digital tv from the wall like I do now with analog?


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## stevel

ottomatic said:


> I refuse to pay $4 per box. Is there a fee for cable cards (per month or one time)?
> 
> When will I be able to get digital tv from the wall like I do now with analog?


There is usually a monthly fee for CableCARDs. You can get digital TV "from the wall" today. Any digital broadcast TV channels on your cable system are supposed to be provided "in the clear", so all you need is a TV with a QAM tuner (since cable uses a different modulation than broadcast.)

In general, though, CableCARD is the way to go, and yes, it costs. That's part of the price of subscribing to digital cable.


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## wmcbrine

ottomatic said:


> I refuse to pay $4 per box. Is there a fee for cable cards (per month or one time)?


$3 a month... and you need two of them. Sorry, you can't win.


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## JohnBrowning

wmcbrine said:


> $3 a month... and you need two of them. Sorry, you can't win.


To be precise, you can utilize 2 of them, but, don't NEED 2 of them. My S3 works just fine on FiOS with 1 cablecard.


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## bilbo

Yes, it looks like the Infrared port was disabled on my QIP2500 sometime between 9PM last night and 9AM this morning. I had to pull out the Scientific Atlanta remote that Verizon provided to change the channel this morning. I guess I will have to do the Infrared (IR) thing, which I have not had to do yet and am not exactly looking forward to it.

But I would much rather deal with Verizon when I am paying less to them for a whole lot more. I had about 80 channels with Comcast; I have approximately 300 channels now with Verizon. My Upload Speed with Comcast would just drop out completely at times. I get High Definition signals now with Verizon now (I did not get anything in HD with Comcast). My television signal from Comcast was poor on the stations I watched most (CBS, ABC, and NBC), but stations like Bravo came in crystal clear.



rtinker said:


> I have a problem in that every time Verizon does service on the system, or perhaps it is service updates for the set top boxes, they reset the boxes and when they are done, the end up being "off". When this happens, it doesn't matter whether they are controlled with IR from the TiVO or use the serial cable from the TiVO, they ain't gonna change to the channel because the box is off! When they do this in the morning and you don't discover it until the evening, it is an entire day's worth of recordings shot to hell.
> 
> Thus, I contacted Verizon and instead of getting somebody helpful, I got somebody who said that he would note the feature request to provide the ability for the STB to have an "always on" option, but that I should contact Motorola as well. I thought that was pretty rude - it was like getting a GM rental car when on a trip and it breaks down, so the rental car company tells me to contact GM as well...
> 
> Anyway, I actually DID contact Motorola and they told me that those STBs (QIP2500) are like computer hardware - it is Verizon that builds the software platform running on them, thus Verizon would have to build that feature.
> 
> Likewise now with the serial port issue - it is Verizon that chose to send a new version of the STB firmware down the lines that now disabled the serial ports on all 3 of my STBs connected to TiVO boxes - yes, after happily reporting that I was using all serial control, I now have NONE.
> 
> Verizon FiOS is really starting to piss me off - combine all of this with the fact that they have steadily increased their price since they first started, and I begin to wonder if perhaps the hassles and stupidity of Comcast may very well be worth it again because at least with them, I had 40-some analog channels and did not need STBs on my TiVOs.
> 
> So to make a long story a bit longer.... My "ask Motorola" bit would be to suggest to them that in their base firmware, or in the firmware that they give the cable providers as example code, have a feature that if the cable box was on when a reset command was sent that it returns to an on state after the reset is finished.


----------



## bilbo

"I get High Definition signals now with Verizon now (I did not get anything in HD with Comcast)."

I pay $2.99 per cable card per month on my Series 3.


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## BlackBetty

wdave said:


> Had Fios (phone/TV/internet) installed Friday. Everything works great.
> 
> Fios TV works great with the S3 and cable cards.
> Picture quality is excellent, noticeably better than cable for analog, digital, and HD channels.
> Fios Internet rocks at 15Mb/2Mb, soon to be increased to 20Mb/4Mb said the installer.
> Fios Phone is better sounding and clearer.
> I'm paying less than I was with Comcast.


Dave, I am in the process of buying a new home. The home is located in a fios service area. I plan on getting FIOS TV, Internet, and phone. Is there a package deal if you get all 3? How much are you paying, if you don't mind me asking.

Basically I will be looking for the 15/2 internet (thats awesome news about 20/4), FIOS TV 200 channel package with HBO and 1 HDTV set top box, and a basic phone line, no bells or whistles on the phone, both my wife and I have cell phones. I know I know, I already tried to get her to do without a landline but she really wants it.

Thanks!


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## Generic

Verizon does offer bundled packages but only certain areas at this time. I believe NY/NJ and FLA areas have it but other places may have it too. $99 for phone, FiosTV and 5/2 Fios internet service. I don't know if you can get 15/2 for a slightly higher price.

Try the link for more info and prices.
http://www.verizon.com/fiostv


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## ConfusedBob

bilbo said:


> "I get High Definition signals now with Verizon now (I did not get anything in HD with Comcast)."
> 
> I pay $2.99 per cable card per month on my Series 3.


I have Directv with an old TiVo and am thinking about getting Verizon Fios and buying a new TiVo. I think it is called S3 with the dual HD tuners. Now I called Verzion and they tell me it cost $100 per cablecard. Does that mean that I have to spend $200 + cost of the TiVo box (at least $500) and then monthly fee for TiVo service and still have VZ say I don't get a number of their services, like guides?

I must be missing something so I sure appreciate it if someone can shed some light here.

thanks a lot


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## Flojomojo

ConfusedBob said:


> I have Directv with an old TiVo and am thinking about getting Verizon Fios and buying a new TiVo. I think it is called S3 with the dual HD tuners. Now I called Verzion and they tell me it cost $100 per cablecard. Does that mean that I have to spend $200 + cost of the TiVo box (at least $500) and then monthly fee for TiVo service and still have VZ say I don't get a number of their services, like guides?
> 
> I must be missing something so I sure appreciate it if someone can shed some light here.
> 
> thanks a lot


I don't think you can buy the cable cards -- instead, you rent them at $3 per month per card (you want 2 so you can record 2 shows at once).

You might want to call Tivo to see if there's a rebate or other incentive on. I got my S3 for $400 after the Father's Day rebate, and since I had another box registered, the service was only $7 a month.

If you get the Tivo service, you don't need the Verizon guide. You would be giving up the "on demand" services, but IMHO those aren't worth much anyway at this time.


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## acvthree

I've got Verizon FIOS and I'm payng $2.99 a card each month. Go out on their web site. It doesn't say anything about buying the card.

Al


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## ConfusedBob

Thanks a lot for the information. I think the person at Verizon was rather clueless as she had to call her supervisor and end up saying they don't lease the cards but sell them for $100 each. I can't find anything on their web site but will call them tomorrow.

thanks again.


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## jcherins

ConfusedBob said:


> Thanks a lot for the information. I think the person at Verizon was rather clueless as she had to call her supervisor and end up saying they don't lease the cards but sell them for $100 each. I can't find anything on their web site but will call them tomorrow.
> 
> thanks again.


I just had FIOS installed on two S3 units in North NJ.

From the FIOS Site:

http://www22.verizon.com/content/fiostv/customer+support/faqs/faqs.htm#cable1

How do I obtain a CableCARD and how much does a CableCARD cost?
Contact your Verizon customer service representative. You can lease a CableCARD directly from Verizon for a low monthly fee.


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## Generic

Verizon is switching over to M series cable cards vs the S series. The M series has two way communications so the S3 requires only 1 cable card vs the S series CC which requires 2. Verizon is going to use up it's current stock before they switch over to the M series.


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## classicsat

The M-card, and no cablecard for that matter, has two-way communications in it. Two way communications lies mostly upon the host.


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## TennTradition

I have a Series 2 TiVo and FiOS. I just purchased an HDTV, so I will be upgrading to an HD cable box. I plan on upgrading in the not too distant future to a HD TiVo DVR, but I am trying to figure out how to best enjoy the setup I have now. I know that I will not get an HD signal through TiVo to my TV, but I can use my HDMI cable and switch to that when I want to watch HD. 

As for TiVo viewing, the Motorolla HD STB with DVR does not appear to have a serial port connection. Is that true? I thought that I might go with the HD STB so that I could record have a pause/re-wind option for HD programming, but that would mean that I would have to use IR blasters for my normal TiVo viewing, no? Has anyone else experienced any other problems with this route?

Does anyone know if the HD STB with no DVR from Motorolla is fitted with a serial cable? Or, do I have to use IR blasters for this option as well? I would think that the use of IR blasters would really be a downer for my usual TiVo habits. I am at least hoping that the HD STB with no DVR has the serial cable...

As of right now, I see it as a tradeoff between either being able to record/pause/re-wind HD TV but be forced to use IR blasters or lose the DVR for HD but have serial control with the HD STB from FiOS (with no DVR). Does that sound about right?


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## bkdtv

Tenn,

The Series2 Tivos do not support HDTV. The TivoHD, Series3, and the FiOS' Motorola DVR are your only options to record/pause/rewind HDTV.



> Does anyone know if the HD STB with no DVR from Motorolla is fitted with a serial cable? Or, do I have to use IR blasters for this option as well? I would think that the use of IR blasters would really be a downer for my usual TiVo habits. I am at least hoping that the HD STB with no DVR has the serial cable...


The standard STB has serial, but I'm not sure about the HD STB.


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## TennTradition

bkdtv said:


> Tenn,
> 
> The Series2 Tivos do not support HDTV. The TivoHD, Series3, and the FiOS' Motorola DVR are your only options to record/pause/rewind HDTV.
> 
> The standard STB has serial, but I'm not sure about the HD STB.


Thanks. I knew that I would need to by-pass the Series2 in order to watch the HD content...but I wasn't sure if I had enumerated the best options at this point or not. Of course, the best option will be to get an HD TiVo...but I am looking for the proverbial finger plugging the hole in the dam method right now. I think that I am just going to go with the Motorola HD DVR connected through HDMI to the TV and Composite to the TiVo series 2 (which is connected to the TV through composite). I will just have to use the IR blasters (they aren't too bad, I suppose). I use a surround sound system instead of the TV speakers and noticed one problem. When I rely on the sound passed through TiVo on to my sound system to be in sync with the video from the motorola box to the TV through HDMI, there is a delay. So, instead, I have just routed all sound to the TV directly. And then, I use the TV's audio out composite cables to connect the TV to the sound system. This seems to work.


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## bkdtv

I don't know if you just got the HDTV, but Tivo Series2 compressed content does not look very good blown up on a larger screen. Tivo Series2 boxes are really not meant for HDTVs, especially larger screens.

With the TivoHD, you would get the same picture quality seen with the FiOS DVR. I guess you can compare the output from the FiOS DVR and the Tivo Series2 to see if you find the output on the latter acceptable.


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## TennTradition

bkdtv said:


> I don't know if you just got the HDTV, but Tivo Series2 compressed content does not look very good blown up on a larger screen. Tivo Series2 boxes are really not meant for HDTVs, especially larger screens.
> 
> With the TivoHD, you would get the same picture quality seen with the FiOS DVR. I guess you can compare the output from the FiOS DVR and the Tivo Series2 to see if you find the output on the latter acceptable.


Thanks again for your input. I notice that the picture is darker when I view it through TiVo (and compostie cables) when compared to the HDMI directly from the Motorola FiOS STB. The HD channels piped through TiVo and then on to the HDTV do not look good at all. On the other hand, the SD channels piped through TiVo and then on to the HDTV actually look OK, just darker. Maybe I don't have "tuned" eyes, but I really don't have a problem with it at all. Does the HDMI cable cause problems for SD channels when piped directly from the FiOS set top box to the HDTV...or does it work well for both SD and HD? The reason I ask is because I am basing my comparison on SD piped through TiVO and to the HDTV with composite cables to SD piped from the FiOS Set Top Box to the HDTV with an HDMI cable. Ultimately, as you point out, I will want to get a HD TiVo if I want to continue using TiVo.


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## madgalaxy

I have been researching getting FiOS and using it with my Tivo S2 DT. After reading through this tread it has scared me about the serial port being turned off on the Moto STB. Is this still an issue with folks? Or has VZ started turning the serial ports back on? I really love my TivoToGo feature and would hate to lose it by getting the FiOS DVR.


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## TennTradition

madgalaxy said:


> I have been researching getting FiOS and using it with my Tivo S2 DT. After reading through this tread it has scared me about the serial port being turned off on the Moto STB. Is this still an issue with folks? Or has VZ started turning the serial ports back on? I really love my TivoToGo feature and would hate to lose it by getting the FiOS DVR.


If you plan on using the Standard Definition set top box for FiOS cable, then you should be fine. I had it for a month before I switched to the HD DVR and used the serial port. That doesn't mean that they will disable it again in the future, but they have (knowingly) enabled it for several months now.


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## volsfan

I have the Motorola QIP2500-3 which I control via the serial port with my Series 2 Toshiba TX-20 Tivo. Works great. However, I keep noticing that the Motorola box seems to power down on some frequency (haven't got a lot of data yet). Obviously, that is not good...I end up with blank shows when Tivo thinks it's recording.

Anyway, I had a similar situation with a Comcast box (back in the daaarrrrkkkkk Comcast days before Verizon!); the box was programmed to power itself down every night at ~1:30 am if there was no activity (a warning message came up to tell you it was going to happen, then poof...power down). Has anyone else experienced this with the QIP2500-3? Or is one of my kids turning the box off occasionally?!?!?


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## Generic

volsfan said:


> I have the Motorola QIP2500-3 which I control via the serial port with my Series 2 Toshiba TX-20 Tivo. Works great. However, I keep noticing that the Motorola box seems to power down on some frequency (haven't got a lot of data yet). Obviously, that is not good...I end up with blank shows when Tivo thinks it's recording.
> 
> Anyway, I had a similar situation with a Comcast box (back in the daaarrrrkkkkk Comcast days before Verizon!); the box was programmed to power itself down every night at ~1:30 am if there was no activity (a warning message came up to tell you it was going to happen, then poof...power down). Has anyone else experienced this with the QIP2500-3? Or is one of my kids turning the box off occasionally?!?!?


It seems that the box powers off whenever Verizon has a software "upgrade" that is downloaded to the box. It doesn't happen too often but it does happen. The last time it happened to me was last week.


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## dslunceford

Generic said:


> Verizon is switching over to M series cable cards vs the S series. The M series has two way communications so the S3 requires only 1 cable card vs the S series CC which requires 2. Verizon is going to use up it's current stock before they switch over to the M series.


Just to clarify, I believe the S3 TiVo will require two cards for two tuners no matter what. If you have a THD, however, you can use a single M series cable card or two S series cable cards to deliver two tuner functionality.


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## rtinker

Generic,

It is definitely FiOS, not the cable box or kids. I have been through the ringer on this one as well. I told FiOS that the boxes can be programmed to have a feature that automatically keeps the box on at all times, but they are not willing to make that change to make the feature appear in the box setup options.

I have S2 TiVOs that use the cable boxes as the 2nd tuner and so they have the same problem - shows record black screen because it happens during the night, we get up and go about our day, and then come home to discover shows not recorded.

I know it is not kids or the boxes because sometimes they go for months without being powered down, but when they do go, it is all 4 of my boxes (3 of them are on TiVOs) and programs on my S3 with cable cards are fine.

During the holidays I am going to see if I can use the power outlet or something like that to signal my home automation system (HomeSeer) as to when the power is out so I can have it send the IR signal to turn them back on automatically!

As of the final time I called Verizon about this and ran it up the chain (as I was not getting answers otherwise), I finally was told that they will not be addressing it by changing the cable box firmware.

So much for the power of the "always on" FiOS service.


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## elgormando

I just got an HD TiVO for Christmas and didn't realize I'd need a CableCARD to get this to work with the HD. Have you had any problems with the CableCARD? Also, should I specifically request an M card instead of the two S cards, I'd like to be able to watch and record two stations at once, or record two at once which comes in handy during football season.


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## Generic

elgormando said:


> I just got an HD TiVO for Christmas and didn't realize I'd need a CableCARD to get this to work with the HD. Have you had any problems with the CableCARD? Also, should I specifically request an M card instead of the two S cards, I'd like to be able to watch and record two stations at once, or record two at once which comes in handy during football season.


Verizon doesn't currently have M cards so you will have to order 2 S cards if you want to record 2 stations at once. It is reported that Verizon will not have M cards until 1Q of 2008 which usually means second or third quarter of 2008.


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## Makmcm

Generic said:


> Verizon doesn't currently have M cards so you will have to order 2 S cards if you want to record 2 stations at once. It is reported that Verizon will not have M cards until 1Q of 2008 which usually means second or third quarter of 2008.


Do you have any idea of how much an M card will be per month? I just had FiOS installed, and will pay $2.99/month for each S card, so I'm wondering if the M card will be less expensive than $6 per month.


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## phoenix69

I am one of the lucky people with FIOS and I have 3 series 2 Tivos. I have been changing channels with the IR blasters on all three but as some others have noted, there is a lag because the Motorola box is waiting for a fourth channel number to be entered but Tivo uses only three. I understand that is the problem with slow channel changes with the blasters. Some of you have said that you are using serial cables to change the channels. My question is, what serial cables do you use and how do you have them hooked up? Also, does that solve the lag? Thanks.


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## GoHokies!

Your S2 tivo came with a serial cable. It goes from the jack marked "serial cable" on the Tivo to the serial port on the STB.

Then you rerun guided setup to tell the Tivo to use the serial cable to change channels. Haven't noticed any problems with lag - every once in a great while the STB doesn't change channels correctly, but I've only noticed that once or twice.


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## bkdtv

elgormando said:


> I just got an HD TiVO for Christmas and didn't realize I'd need a CableCARD to get this to work with the HD. Have you had any problems with the CableCARD? Also, should I specifically request an M card instead of the two S cards, I'd like to be able to watch and record two stations at once, or record two at once which comes in handy during football season.


As indicated above, Verizon doesn't yet stock M-Cards, so you'll need two of the S-Cards. When Verizon has M-Cards at a later date, you could replace the two S-Cards with a single M-CARD.


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## phoenix69

Thanks GoHokies. I'll give the serial cables a try.


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## iobdennis

I've been with FIOS and using their Motorola box. I record certain Series in the HDDVR. The other day, a basketball game went overtime, so the show I normally record, (First Run Only) with AirTime set to "Anytime", went overtime. I was shocked that the recorder came on anyway at the prescribed time and of course went off at the prescribed time. I missed the end of the show I wanted to watch because of the delayed start. I thought my settings were to prevent this. When I called FIOS, they said their box doesn't do that kind of recording. I used to have a Tivo back when I was with DirecTV, and I thought the Tivo box was smart enough to know about delayed starts for regular recordings like this. I'd like to switch back to a Tivo box, but I was wondering if I do get the Tivo, but the FIOS subscription cards work with their own program menus, will I indeed be able to prevent the loss of a program due to a delayed start with the Tivo box. Thanks in advance.


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## ilh

TiVo doesn't do any better in this regard, either a standalone TiVo or a DirecTiVo in my experience. I don't believe they have access to real-time information accurate enough to handle this kind of thing. You are much better off padding the end time of shows that come on after a live sporting event.

(Now, one could argue the TiVo should perhaps detect this situation and prompt you to add padding, much like it does to live events themselves, as it knows there are live events preceding your scheduled recording.)


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## bicker

Just resurrecting this thread.... can I take it from this thread that the following comment is off-the-mark?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15252131#post15252131

Can folks with FiOS TV service, and TiVo S3 DVRs please chime in with an update on how their experience with FiOS and their S3 compares to perhaps a previous experience they had with the S3 and Comcast? Thanks!


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## jcherins

bicker said:


> Just resurrecting this thread.... can I take it from this thread that the following comment is off-the-mark?
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15252131#post15252131
> 
> Can folks with FiOS TV service, and TiVo S3 DVRs please chime in with an update on how their experience with FiOS and their S3 compares to perhaps a previous experience they had with the S3 and Comcast? Thanks!


I have two S3's with FIOS (made the switch from Comcast more than a year ago) and couldn't be happier. PQ is fantastic, and with the recent addition of Netflix, the Video On Demand functionality is more then enough for me.

Given the horrible experience that I had with Comcast, I have been thrilled with FIOS and recommend it heartily


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## cram501

bicker said:


> Just resurrecting this thread.... can I take it from this thread that the following comment is off-the-mark?
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15252131#post15252131
> 
> Can folks with FiOS TV service, and TiVo S3 DVRs please chime in with an update on how their experience with FiOS and their S3 compares to perhaps a previous experience they had with the S3 and Comcast? Thanks!


It took Comcast 5 visits over the space of 9 days to get my S3 and Tivo HD up and running.

FIOS installed the ONT, UPS, and Cablecards in about 2 hours. I have a m-card in my TivoHD and 2 m-cards in my S3. The installer entered the information on a laptop and got the Tivo's working on the spot.


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## Generic

I have had my S3 with Fios for a year without any problems. It has worked great other then the freeze/reboot problem that was on the Tivo side. It was corrected with a software update. Once I pay off some bills, I plan on getting a TivoHD for the bedroom to replace my S2 DVD.


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## sjgmoney

Looking for some guidance, apoligies if this was covered somewhere else in the thread. Here's my current setup: I have Direct TV and Comcast (overkill, I know but I have to have the NFL package) both connected to my Series 2 Dual Tuner Tivo. My comcast connection is just the cable directly, no box (i.e. no digital) using the analog tuner while my Direct TV box uses the Digital tuner. 

If I switch to Fios can I once again just plug the Fios cable into the analog tuner and leave the Direct TV digital connection alone?

Thanks


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## sjgmoney

C'mon TC, don't let me down. Any help here?


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## NotVeryWitty

Nope, no more analog with Fios.


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## sjgmoney

Damn, I was hoping the local channels (below ch 50ish) would be analog and I could use it like I am now. Not the case, eh?


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## wmcbrine

That's what they had until a few months ago (analog/digital simulcast for channels below 50), but they removed the analogs so that they could bring us 100+ channels of HD (and with no SDV). I think that was a good trade.


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## Generic

sjgmoney said:


> Damn, I was hoping the local channels (below ch 50ish) would be analog and I could use it like I am now. Not the case, eh?


If your tv has a qam capable tuner, it can be used to access the local SD/HD channels and the audio music channels. All other channels are encrypted and cannot be accessed.


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## pierpont

Will the IR blaster for a Series2 work with the FiOS TV box?


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## pierpont

phoenix69 said:


> I am one of the lucky people with FIOS and I have 3 series 2 Tivos. I have been changing channels with the IR blasters on all three but as some others have noted, there is a lag because the Motorola box is waiting for a fourth channel number to be entered but Tivo uses only three. I understand that is the problem with slow channel changes with the blasters. Some of you have said that you are using serial cables to change the channels. My question is, what serial cables do you use and how do you have them hooked up? Also, does that solve the lag? Thanks.


I would like to know the answer to this question too. Will the serial cables work with all FiOS TV boxes?


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## jay_man2

pierpont said:


> Will the IR blaster for a Series2 work with the FiOS TV box?


The FiOS box you need to work with a Series 2 is a Motorola DCT-700. In this area Verizon provides them for $3.99 a month.


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## asgard3

motorola QIP 2500-3 cable box with FIOS, TIVO SERIES 2,

Problems: no 4-digit channels and Lag with IR (code 10006B)


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## bkdtv

asgard3 said:


> motorola QIP 2500-3 cable box with FIOS, TIVO SERIES 2,
> 
> Problems: no 4-digit channels and Lag with IR (code 10006B)


Does serial control no longer work with the QIP2500?

I thought the primary reason for choosing the QIP2500 over the cheaper DCT700 -- for use with a TiVo -- was serial control, eliminating some IR lag?


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## emelhairus9

It's been a good four years since I've had a TiVo digital video recorder in the house. My first was attached to a DirecTV satellite dish and in the early days of the 21st century, was quite cool - tons o' channels and a great picture.. But TiVo is well on the way to becoming a generic term for digital video recording, for the time shifting many of us do with TV. Did you TiVo that? "I need to TiVo 'Hannah Montana' for my sister..


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## Squirrel

Hi,

I see everyone talking about using the IR blasters with FIOS and the S2 Tivos. I'm assuming from reading this thread that is my only option. Before I convert I have a question. Can anyone who set it up using this method watch regular TV and tape something via TIVO at the same time? 

My husband currently has it set up that way right now through Comcast using a splitter but he doesn't think he can do that with FIOS and that would be a big problem in our house with the way we watch TV.

Thanks for any help you can give me.


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## Bryanmc

Looking at moving to FIOS, I've got a series two. Same question as the one above this post, do I have to use an IR repeater with FIOS?


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## redcupr

I just had FIOS TV installed. Our Series 3 was easy to set up with the two CableCards. For our Series 2 (Single Tuner), we had to use the IR blasters to control the Motorola DCT-700 cable box. There is a lag, but it works a little faster than the Pace cable boxes we had through Comcast.

Since our FIOS is all digital, we can no longer watch one show through the TV's tuner and record a second through the Tivo's tuner, thankfully we have the two tuners in the Series 3.

As far as four-digit channel tuning, if you repeat "Guided Setup", it should ask you if you want to use 3-digit or 4-digit channels. I don't plan on watching any of the channels in the 4-digit range so I'm going to rerun Guided Setup and tell it to use the 3-digit setup. That will speed up the channel changing a bit.


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## wmcbrine

If you change it to 3-digit tuning, I'm pretty sure that will slow it down, not speed it up. The DCT700 will just sit there waiting for the fourth digit (or an Enter code, neither of which is coming), until it times out.

But what I did, recently, was to go into Settings -> Channels -> Channel Changing (no need to redo Guided Setup), Advanced Setup, turn on "'Enter' button", and set "Channel Digits" to 1 (i.e., no leading zeros). This means no change for 3- and 4-digit channels (and 4-digit channels remain accessible), but only 3 codes are sent for 2-digit channels, and only 2 codes for single-digit channels. It's a huge speedup for the low-numbered channels.


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## redcupr

wmcbrine,

I'll give that a try. Anything to reduce the lag is a good thing.

Thanks.


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