# How do you deal with your TWC tuning adapter going offline all the time?



## warrenn (Jun 24, 2004)

Like many of you, I have continual problems with my Time Warner tuning adapter going offline. I've had techs out 4-5 times and each time they blame it on something, "fix it", and reboot the tuning adapter. The channels work for a short while, but eventually they go offline. I suppose what fixed it was just the reboot, not all the cable tweaking they do.

Anyway, I was wondering a couple of things. First, anyone know why the tuning adapter goes offline and doesn't come back? Specifically, what is going on inside the box? Usually cycling the power makes it work--if just for a week or so.

Second, anyone come up with a solution to this? Did a tech finally come out and make the tuning adapter work? What did he do? I was thinking of putting a timer on the power plug for the tuning adapter so that the power cycles every night. Do you think that would work?


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

I switched to Dish Network.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=476817

Sadly after 4 days, my Dish Network DVR has already failed and they are making me wait 5 days for a replacement. Awesome. Out of the frying pan and into the fire.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Knowing your location can help get better answers to your questions. I suggest putting it in your profile so it shows on every post you make.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Sorry, I don't have a solution for your problem, but anyone who can't reliably receive all the scheduled programming in their package should complain to the FCC. They're required to provide those channels to CableCARD customers.

File a complaint here:

http://www.fcc.gov/complaints


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

nrc said:


> Sorry, I don't have a solution for your problem, but anyone who can't reliably receive all the scheduled programming in their package should complain to the FCC. They're required to provide those channels to CableCARD customers.
> 
> File a complaint here:
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/complaints


I did that. Never heard from them. I dont know how long it takes for them to get around to complaints but meanwhile, Im shelling out $150 a month for phone and tv that dont work. So I cant call 911, even tho Im paying for the phone and I cant watch TV on anything that isnt TWC equipment.

Good riddance, TWC. I hate Tivo had to go with it but thats life. The Dish DVR seems to be doing just fine (when it works).


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## warrenn (Jun 24, 2004)

I'm in central Texas. 

The obvious problem is that the tuning adapter sucks. Cycling the power means something in the box is messed up. It's not like the signal gets stronger because I repower the box.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

What do I do?

I complain to them. Loudly. And frequently. And what does it accomplish? Nothing.

It's not a signal problem. It's nothing that a tech visit will fix. It's a ****** implementation of a ****** technology. SDV is ******. The Tuning Adapters are ******. TiVo's refusal to try to tune again once it doesn't tune the first time is ******. TWC's employees understanding of the technology and existing problems is ******. Consumers understanding of the technology and limitations is ******.

It's all software. It's fixable. But Cisco, TiVo and the cable companies have to work together to fix it. And they've proven by their (lack of) action that they have no desire to make it better than it is. As many problems as there are, it's under their threshold of what an acceptable error rate is.

It's a problem with any carrier that uses the TA's and SDV, not just TWC.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

KungFuCow said:


> I did that. Never heard from them. I dont know how long it takes for them to get around to complaints but meanwhile, Im shelling out $150 a month for phone and tv that dont work. So I cant call 911, even tho Im paying for the phone and I cant watch TV on anything that isnt TWC equipment.
> 
> Good riddance, TWC. I hate Tivo had to go with it but thats life. The Dish DVR seems to be doing just fine (when it works).


The problem is most people don't file complaints. The FCC said they would monitor the situation to see if things improved and if not they would step in.

People with TAs that are faulty need to file complaints regularly and everytime it fails. It is the only way the FCC will look into and possibly require another solution.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

I've had a 2 tuning adapters for 3 months with TWC. I've never had a single issue with them. I have seen a lot of cablecard firmware updates. Perhaps your region is using buggy firmware on your tuning adapters or they just don't know how to fix issues.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

rainwater said:


> I've had a 2 tuning adapters for 3 months with TWC. I've never had a single issue with them. I have seen a lot of cablecard firmware updates. Perhaps your region is using buggy firmware on your tuning adapters or they just don't know how to fix issues.


Well tell us what region you're in -- the rest of us want to move there! 

4600+ posts and you still don't have your location in your profile? Tsk, Tsk!


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

I'm in the Wisconsin region, and I have very, very few issues with the tuning adapter. The worst problem I have is that it doesn't always tune in a channel on first attempt; the bad part about this is that it misses recordings. This seems to happen the most on SyFy.

Other than that, the thing just hums along. I did have to have them send a "hit" to it about a month or two ago, but that was the first time in a long time.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

LoadStar said:


> I'm in the Wisconsin region, and I have very, very few issues with the tuning adapter. The worst problem I have is that it doesn't always tune in a channel on first attempt; the bad part about this is that it misses recordings. This seems to happen the most on SyFy.
> 
> Other than that, the thing just hums along. I did have to have them send a "hit" to it about a month or two ago, but that was the first time in a long time.


LOL! Other than not working reliably, it works pretty well! Many of us have this problem and it should have been fixed by now. My 1954 push button car radio tuned more reliably. It isn't clear where the blame goes for this, although TiVo could fix it in software by just retrying tuning until it succeeds.

Major problems like the OP is having are most likely the fault of the cable cos equipment or setup.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

dlfl said:


> Well tell us what region you're in -- the rest of us want to move there!
> 
> 4600+ posts and you still don't have your location in your profile? Tsk, Tsk!


It's Charlotte, NC. Here almost all HD channels are on SDV and most of the SD channels are too. Luckily, they do it right here and I don't know of anyone in the area that has any major issues with TAs.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

rainwater said:


> I've had a 2 tuning adapters for 3 months with TWC. I've never had a single issue with them. I have seen a lot of cablecard firmware updates. Perhaps your region is using buggy firmware on your tuning adapters or they just don't know how to fix issues.


That doesnt have anything to do with it.

I moved 20 miles and went from never having to touch my tuning adapters to them never working. Same company, same region.


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## P42 (Jan 7, 2003)

If all it takes to get the tuning adapter working again is a power cycle of the TA, why not put it on one of those basic plug timers, and have it reboot every night. Sure this masks the problem.


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## JJK1954 (Sep 6, 2011)

I am here in NYC, and I have had the tuner since late Aug. So far, so good with both adaptor and cable card. I am crossing my fingers. I know, pretty sad in this day and age of electronics! Maybe you can call Cisco for some advice?


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

KungFuCow said:


> .......I moved 20 miles and went from never having to touch my tuning adapters to them never working. Same company, same region.





JJK1954 said:


> ....... Maybe you can call Cisco for some advice?


There is sophisticated equipment (e.g., QAM edge modulators or something like that) serving each node (or whatever you call a neighborhood group of cable users) that has to be set up and functioning correctly before tuning adapters will work correctly. Even within the same cable system region, this can be screwed up on one node but not on another, I think.

What's puzzling is that the same functions performed by TA's must also be performed by cable co set-top boxes and DVR's. Surely these devices don't have the same incidence of problems as TA's or the cable co would be overwhelmed with service calls. Apparently there's some difference between the TA/TiVo combination and the Cable co boxes that causes a lot more problems for TiVo's.

Good luck calling Cisco. Too bad the cable co people don't "call Cisco". Cisco would talk to them and maybe that would do some good.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

KungFuCow said:


> That doesnt have anything to do with it.
> 
> I moved 20 miles and went from never having to touch my tuning adapters to them never working. Same company, same region.


That isn't surprising because you are probably on a different headend. However, areas like where I live apparently work together to make sure all the headends are running the same basic setup so we rarely have SDV issues.


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## warrenn (Jun 24, 2004)

dlfl said:


> What's puzzling is that the same functions performed by TA's must also be performed by cable co set-top boxes and DVR's. Surely these devices don't have the same incidence of problems as TA's or the cable co would be overwhelmed with service calls. Apparently there's some difference between the TA/TiVo combination and the Cable co boxes that causes a lot more problems for TiVo's.


My theory is that the TWC DVRs have a more robust set of code running inside them. If they discover the channels drop out, they do some sort of re-ping or reset. The Tuning Adapters don't have that same function built in. When they go out, they stay out. TWC probably keeps it this way so that frustrated customers switch to a TWC box. Every tech I had come to my house badmouthed Tivo and the cable cards, saying how much trouble they were. Yeah! Trouble for you because your crappy TA doesn't work!

I submitted a complaint with the FCC.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

rainwater said:


> That isn't surprising because you are probably on a different headend. However, areas like where I live apparently work together to make sure all the headends are running the same basic setup so we rarely have SDV issues.


Doubtful. My wife used to be a Tier 3 TWC tech and worked at the head end. I think if that was the case she would know as she still knows the infrastructure better than their current employees.

Whats really funny is she wired our house when she worked at TWC. The install was pristine, with dedicated drops for each outlet. Once TWC started coming in and servicing the house, they have destroyed her install by cutting and rerunning drops, adding and removing splitters, house amps, etc. You name it.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

KungFuCow said:


> Doubtful.


What is doubtful? People in my area do not have TA issues no matter what headend they are on.


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## alm (Nov 12, 2010)

rainwater said:


> It's Charlotte, NC. Here almost all HD channels are on SDV and most of the SD channels are too. Luckily, they do it right here and I don't know of anyone in the area that has any major issues with TAs.


 I'm also in the Charlotte NC area. Other than TWC forgetting to authorize the TA on my account on the initial install, I have had zero problems.


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## warrenn (Jun 24, 2004)

One thing that's weird is that certain small blocks of channels will be out. Like 1-350 is fine, 350-360 is out, 361-600 is fine, 600-605 is out... etc. There's no issue with any of the channels that work--the picture is 100% good. And it's always the same blocks of channels that go out. Once the TA is offline, it's always the same exact channels that go offline.


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## Cactus Jim (Mar 28, 2011)

I lose channels in the Phoenix area at least every month, usually more frequently. Same sets of channels - about 25-30 total. Unplugging the tuning adapter and waiting for it to reboot usually fixes the problem. Of course, I don't always catch it before I miss a recording. If I leave Tivo, this is probably the main reason I will go.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

dlfl said:


> There is sophisticated equipment (e.g., QAM edge modulators or something like that) serving each node (or whatever you call a neighborhood group of cable users) that has to be set up and functioning correctly before tuning adapters will work correctly.


Well, yes, and it is much more than that. In fact, setting up the modulator is not an involved process. The CATV plant design has to be correct - which it usually is, but in my days as a CATV engineer I ran across a number of neighborhoods where the design was incorrect. In some cases the original engineering had been in error. In others the design was correct on the map, but an error had been made in implementing the design.

All the amplifiers - there may be several in-line - have to be properly balanced, both upstream and downstream.

The design parameters assume a certain range of topologies for the segment between the subscriber tap and the back of the tuning device. The actual topology varies a great deal from one dwelling to the next, and any household hardware that pushes the subscriber topology outside the limits of the design parameters can potentially cause problems. This can include the house being a long way from the subscriber tap and having more outlets (typically more than 4) than for which the spec provides. The latter is especially hard on SDV, particularly if the house is close to the node or line extender.

Finally, faulty equipment can of course wreak all sorts of havoc on the delivery system, and there is a great deal of equipment involved, including customer-owned equipment. In particular, the upstream signal, whose frequencies are between 5MHz and 30MHz, is particularly sensitive to corrosion, dirt, and lose connections. A tiny bit of fluff or dielectric residue on the center conductor of a fitting can severely attenuate the signals below 50MHz, while having much less effect on those above 50MHz.



dlfl said:


> What's puzzling is that the same functions performed by TA's must also be performed by cable co set-top boxes and DVR's. Surely these devices don't have the same incidence of problems as TA's or the cable co would be overwhelmed with service calls.


In fact, they do, or nearly so. The difference is, they cannot lolligag around and point the finger at the customer's equipment, so they have to fix the issues.



dlfl said:


> Apparently there's some difference between the TA/TiVo combination and the Cable co boxes that causes a lot more problems for TiVo's.


The main problem is the USB interface. It was a very poor choice for the interface to the TiVo, and I warned the developers it would cause problems when they were designing the TA.



dlfl said:


> Good luck calling Cisco. Too bad the cable co people don't "call Cisco". Cisco would talk to them and maybe that would do some good.


Unlikely. Companies like Cisco don't really talk to anyone on issues like this.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

lrhorer said:


> The main problem is the USB interface. It was a very poor choice for the interface to the TiVo, and I warned the developers it would cause problems when they were designing the TA.


Interesting. Why is that?


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## fishbate (Sep 18, 2005)

I think there are just a lot of defective tuning adapters in circulation. I had the exact same problem with the first TA the TWC tech installed. It would work for a few hours or a few days then I would lose random channels. He replaced the TA twice before I got one that worked. The third one has worked just fine for the last year and a half. I would just make them keep replacing it until you get one that works.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

nrc said:


> Sorry, I don't have a solution for your problem, but anyone who can't reliably receive all the scheduled programming in their package should complain to the FCC. They're required to provide those channels to CableCARD customers.


I don't really understand. I thought the tuning adapters were the FCC approved solution (/workaround) to the SDV problem.


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## jayn_j (Oct 29, 2010)

LoadStar said:


> I'm in the Wisconsin region, and I have very, very few issues with the tuning adapter. The worst problem I have is that it doesn't always tune in a channel on first attempt; the bad part about this is that it misses recordings. This seems to happen the most on SyFy.
> 
> Other than that, the thing just hums along. I did have to have them send a "hit" to it about a month or two ago, but that was the first time in a long time.


Funny. I am also on TWC Milwaukee and have endless problems. I also see the first attempt problem and the signal not available after it has sat unused for an hour or so. I also slowly lose channels until I get fed up and go through the 30 minute boot sequence. Just resetting the TA doesn't work for me.

I am in the northeast corner of the service area (Bayside) and have older overhead lines. I do have signal strength issues that may contribute, but the TIVO and the tuning adapter seem to be the first devices affected. It has reached the point where I am dual recording everything on the TIVO and the backup TWC DVR.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

jayn_j said:


> Funny. I am also on TWC Milwaukee and have endless problems. I also see the first attempt problem and the signal not available after it has sat unused for an hour or so. I also slowly lose channels until I get fed up and go through the 30 minute boot sequence. Just resetting the TA doesn't work for me.
> 
> I am in the northeast corner of the service area (Bayside) and have older overhead lines. I do have signal strength issues that may contribute, but the TIVO and the tuning adapter seem to be the first devices affected. It has reached the point where I am dual recording everything on the TIVO and the backup TWC DVR.


The "signal not available after it has sat unused" is something the Cable Co. is allowed to do in order to reclaim unused SDV channels it needs to service other drops.

There are dedicated OOB (out-of-band) signal frequencies used for the TA to communicate with the cable plant. If this link is weak you get problems with TA operation. Look in TA Diagnostics under the status pages for the RDC and FDC signal levels given in dBmV. The FDC should be in the -5 to 5 range and the RDC should be in the 40 to 50 range. If this is the problem it could be due to cable/splitter problems in your house or the cable co stuff external to your house. Of course there are other problems either with your equipment or the cable system that can cause what you have, too.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

dlfl said:


> The "signal not available after it has sat unused" is something the Cable Co. is allowed to do in order to reclaim unused SDV channels it needs to service other drops.


It won't happen during recordings so it shouldn't be an issue. Each system is setup to timeout at different values so it could be an hour or it could be something really long like 12 hours.


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## Ennui (Sep 2, 2008)

dlfl said:


> The "signal not available after it has sat unused" is something the Cable Co. is allowed to do in order to reclaim unused SDV channels it needs to service other drops.
> 
> There are dedicated OOB (out-of-band) signal frequencies used for the TA to communicate with the cable plant. If this link is weak you get problems with TA operation. Look in TA Diagnostics under the status pages for the RDC and FDC signal levels given in dBmV. The FDC should be in the -5 to 5 range and the RDC should be in the 40 to 50 range. If this is the problem it could be due to cable/splitter problems in your house or the cable co stuff external to your house. Of course there are other problems either with your equipment or the cable system that can cause what you have, too.


Thanks for the info. How about -5 and 39 for the FDC and RDC? We have been having problems with this (of three) TA.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Ennui said:


> Thanks for the info. How about -5 and 39 for the FDC and RDC? We have been having problems with this (of three) TA.


I don't know enough to say those numbers are definitely bad. If they are substantially different from those of the other 2 TA's then it might make you suspect they could be a problem. These differences have to be due to the splitters and cabling in your home.


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## Ennui (Sep 2, 2008)

dlfl said:


> I don't know enough to say those numbers are definitely bad. If they are substantially different from those of the other 2 TA's then it might make you suspect they could be a problem. These differences have to be due to the splitters and cabling in your home.


Thanks for the reply. The other two are -7, 36 and -2, 48 and they both work OK. The one with trouble needs to be reset frequently: power cycle and TiVo reset. It is often "off line"; that is, I cannot see the TA diagnostics screen at all. I have a new TA that I tried but that did not work any better. Frustrating.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Ennui said:


> Thanks for the reply. The other two are -7, 36 and -2, 48 and they both work OK. The one with trouble needs to be reset frequently: power cycle and TiVo reset. It is often "off line"; that is, I cannot see the TA diagnostics screen at all. I have a new TA that I tried but that did not work any better. Frustrating.


The three sets of numbers are all over the place -- no basis for suspecting one over the other. It seems like they should be more alike -- I have to wonder about the cabling and splitters. If you have easy access to the splitters and they are a few years old, I would replace them just as a preventative measure if nothing else. Do not skimp on the price of splitters. They need to cover 50 MHz to 900 MHz. Also your cabling should preferably be RG6 instead of RG59, especially for the longer runs.

However I see no indication from your RDC/FDC numbers to point the finger at the one TA location that's giving problems. You could swap TA's to see if the trouble stays with the TA or the location.


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## warrenn (Jun 24, 2004)

dlfl said:


> However I see no indication from your RDC/FDC numbers to point the finger at the one TA location that's giving problems. You could swap TA's to see if the trouble stays with the TA or the location.


How easy is it to swap TA's? It is tied to the specific Tivo/Cable Card or is it just a dumb device which can be swapped out with another TA?


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

warrenn said:


> How easy is it to swap TA's? It is tied to the specific Tivo/Cable Card or is it just a dumb device which can be swapped out with another TA?


Dumb device, not tied.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

warrenn said:


> How easy is it to swap TA's? It is tied to the specific Tivo/Cable Card or is it just a dumb device which can be swapped out with another TA?


It's not tied to anything. It is usually activated in the office. You should be able to go and pick one up. Just make sure they register it when you exchange your old one.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

Ennui said:


> Thanks for the info. How about -5 and 39 for the FDC and RDC? We have been having problems with this (of three) TA.


Those numbers are fine.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

rainwater said:


> What is doubtful? People in my area do not have TA issues no matter what headend they are on.


Im also in TWC Carolinas and have had only a few issues with the TA (I have 3 of them)... mainly an intermittent failed recording issue with 'video signal not available' in the log. I have two TiVo's recording essentially the same set of SP's. When the issue occurs, it occurs on one of the TiVos while the other one records the show fine. Its not always the same box that sees the issue. It doesnt happen very often thank goodness.... perhaps once or twice a month. Still beats the heck out of the 8300HD by a long shot.


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## HTH (Aug 28, 2000)

The last time I had a problem (went out before prime time last Sunday, didn't notice until after midnight Tuesday) I rebooted not the TA but the TiVo. I'm starting to think it is an interaction problem between the TA and certain single-channel CableCards. The TiVo couldn't record on its primary card (a single-channel) but could still record off the secondary card (a multi-card; yes, an odd installation), so only when I had conflicts would I get recordings. The TiVo preferentially records off the first card even when it is down, which is annoying. I believe the card-device pairing requirements make the cards non-swappable without assistance.

Of course, the channels that wouldn't record were generally the ones I wouldn't have needed a Tuning Adapter to see in the first place and don't have repeat timeslots. (Or the repeat timeslots are lies, like House on USAHD.)


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