# HDHomeRun DVR



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Seems that SiliconDust is taking a stab at their own DVR software....

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1275320038/hdhomerun-dvr-the-dvr-re-imagined

Based on the info provided the software runs on a NAS and works with existing HDHomeRun tuners.

I wonder if they're using CVP-2 and it's RUI capabilities to function? This could be an early glimps at how the sucessor to CableCARD is going to work.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

SiliconDust.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> Seems that Silicone Dust is taking a stab at their own DVR software....
> 
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1275320038/hdhomerun-dvr-the-dvr-re-imagined
> 
> ...


If the successor to CableCard actually brings the 2 sat companies into the fold this is how TiVo should go. That way you only need to buy tuners if you want to switch between OTA, Cable, Dish, or Direct.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Just saw this over at The Missing Remote. If they offer support to run it on an unRAID server I'd jump on it. I could replace my ATX HTPC with a spare Intel NUC and run everything off the server.

In any case, it's great to see that there's still interest in DVRs for PCs and home networks. I am curious, however, what the $30 annual subscription is for. They already offer free guide data for their Kodi HDHomeRun add-on, but that's just for live TV viewing. I guess they need some compensation for the time and effort involved in getting the DVR app up and running. I suspect that the financial goal they're trying to reach has something to do with obtaining CableLabs certification, but I'm just guessing. They did say that protected content will be available to record and watch so I can only assume that they are seeking certification to make it happen.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Time to get another CableCARD and unpack my SiliconDust HDHomeRun PRIME.

SiliconDust never did release their 4 Tuner units and never gave any explanation, But the 3 Tuner HDHomeRun PRIME is a very solid device at just $89.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

CoxInPHX said:


> SiliconDust never did release their 4 Tuner units and never gave any explanation, But the 3 Tuner HDHomeRun PRIME is a very solid device at just $89.


The link you provided doesn't say anything about a 4-tuner unit, just one that can record up to four channels at once. Current devices are capable of recording multiple channels using fewer tuners. OTOH, the HDHR4-CC leads me to believe that it is likely a 4-tuner model. In the past, they have indicated that a new 6-tuner model was in the works, but so far it hasn't seen the light of day. The original 6-tuner model was basically just two 3-tuner units on a single chassis and required two cablecards. The new model was supposed to use just a single M-card.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

They announced the MPEG4 transcoding 4-tuner devices a couple of years ago and never delivered. Doesn't exactly make you want to give them money for a DVR product (but I did love their 3-tuner Cablecard box). Apparently they now have a 6-tuner non-transcoding box in the works.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/08/silicondust-announces-two-new-hdhomerun-network-tuners-with-tr/
https://www.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=18513

Don't get me wrong this is great news if they can deliver as Tivo sorely needs the competition, but I'm not holding my breath regardless of how well the kickstarter goes.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

If you read through all of the web info on the SiliconDust website regarding the DVR software it appears that they already have the recording engine working. They've had the Kodi Live TV app working for quite some time and have had a Live TV viewing app for other platforms available for years. They just have to work out some of the other functions, like fast forwarding and such. It appears that it will be compatible with WMC remotes when used on a Windows platform.

FWIW, SiliconDust has made guide data free for anyone that's been using the Kodi Live TV add-on as well as the TV View app that is included in the HDHomeRun software. They're only about halfway through the first day of their 30-day Kick-Off campaign and they already have over one-third of the target funds. I'd say that a lot of people are getting very interested in having this software developed.

Good to hear that the 6-tuner Prime is getting close to being released, but I'll believe it when I see it. If and when that day comes I'll probably consider selling my InfiniTV 6 and go with the 6-tuner Prime. I'd love to swap out my full ATX HTPC for a new Haswell i5 NUC. The energy savings alone would more than pay for the annual guide data fee. I'm already using three NUCs for my satellite TVs and they only draw about 16-20 watts apiece.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

mr.unnatural said:


> Just saw this over at The Missing Remote. If they offer support to run it on an unRAID server I'd jump on it. I could replace my ATX HTPC with a spare Intel NUC and run everything off the server.


The kickstarter page says...



> We are making the storage/record engine available for:
> 
> Windows
> Mac
> ...


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

CoxInPHX said:


> Time to get another CableCARD and unpack my SiliconDust HDHomeRun PRIME. SiliconDust never did release their 4 Tuner units and never gave any explanation, But the 3 Tuner HDHomeRun PRIME is a very solid device at just $89.


Ditto


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I have an older HDHomeRun without the DLNA stuff, so I'd have to pledge pretty high to get a working system. Since I only use it for one station that I can only get OTA I'm not sure it's worth the expense.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> The kickstarter page says...


That only applies to the initial release. I'd like to see unRAID support as one of their "stretch" goals. It's certainly not beyond the realm of possibility, especially if there's enough interest in it. I suspect it would mostly boil down to compiling it for a Linux platform.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I didn't realize unRAID was a product. I thought you just slipped with the capslock key.


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## tallmomof2 (May 3, 2014)

I'm pretty excited about this! Even though I own 2 Roamios and 2 Minis, I still run two Silicondust devices to my media server with SageTV. I only currently record clear QAM but the DVR software will support Cablecard and I'm willing to throw another $5 monthly at Verizon to play with this. SageTV is going open source but I've always been very happy with SiliconDust products and will be trying out the DVR software.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> I didn't realize unRAID was a product. I thought you just slipped with the capslock key.


unRAID is a software server solution that runs from a USB flash drive:

http://lime-technology.com/


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Interesting. But...as someone who is invested in Tivo now I won't be a buyer unless it moves heaven and earth. 

I don't like the idea of recording over the network if I don't have too either.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> I have an older HDHomeRun without the DLNA stuff, so I'd have to pledge pretty high to get a working system. Since I only use it for one station that I can only get OTA I'm not sure it's worth the expense.


I agree that the pledge amounts that include the hardware is a bit steep, but you can always purchase the hardware separately when it goes on sale. I recently bought two brand new HDHR Connects for $50 apiece. You can find used HDHR Primes on ebay pretty cheap.



trip1eX said:


> I don't like the idea of recording over the network if I don't have too either.


I used to feel the same way about using the HDHR tuners for recording on my HTPC. Now I have a HDHR Prime and three HDHR Connect/Duals and they work great without bogging down my network. Recording on my HTPC vs. using a NAS and the HDHR tuners really isn't any different.


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## mcf57 (Oct 19, 2012)

Tivo is STILL the ultimate user friendly device and platform. I guess this could be a good option for techies, but for someone who just wants to plug it in and go for the most part, TiVo is the way to go instead of messing with HTPCs, desktop or NAS devices.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Any competition in this space is good. The more pressure TiVo feels the faster they'll add all those features we want.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

mcf57 said:


> Tivo is STILL the ultimate user friendly device and platform. I guess this could be a good option for techies, but for someone who just wants to plug it in and go for the most part, TiVo is the way to go instead of messing with HTPCs, desktop or NAS devices.


I think that's the point of their new dvr, to simplify it. Read the literature:

"The best part? It requires practically zero configuration."


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## mcf57 (Oct 19, 2012)

HarperVision said:


> I think that's the point of their new dvr, to simplify it. Read the literature:
> 
> "The best part? It requires practically zero configuration."


Then why did they need ALL that information to tell about it. Sorry, that kickstarter information page was too much information as it was


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

It's still a geek product. While it says it requires very little configuration it still requires an install and setup on a PC or NAS as well as install and config of the HDHomerun. It's not nearly as easy as a plug and play solution like TiVo, but it is a good alternative for those looking to get away from MCE and a full blown PC.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> It's still a geek product. While it says it requires very little configuration it still requires an install and setup on a PC or NAS as well as install and config of the HDHomerun. *It's not nearly as easy as a plug and play solution like TiVo,* but it is a good alternative for those looking to get away from MCE and a full blown PC.


Apparently you don't use yours with a cablecard and tuning adapter!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Well that headache is there for all CableCARD devices, and the amount you feel it really depends on the competence of the cable company you're dealing with.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Here's a video preview of the DVR software:


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Looks pretty basic. Didn't see anything for padding, keep at most, or even a way to make a season pass channel specific. Hopefully they can add those features over time. They mentioned in the original video that back to back recordings can use a single tuner, so maybe they're doing some sort of auto padding?

I reached out to them about the recording format so that we can add support in VRD. Based on the preliminary response I got it sounds doable, at least for unencrypted shows, so we'll likely have support at/near release.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I was never worried that VRD would not work with it. I knew you had it covered 

Padding is discussed in the project description on the Kickstarter web page. Here's an excerpt:



> Where we are at today  Recording:
> 
> The DVR records. You can search for any show by name or bring up a list of the most popular shows and hit Record Series. The DVR records the latest season, or every episode if you tell it to.
> 
> ...


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

May be a good time to grab one if anyone wants to play with their upcoming DVR solution:

http://electronics.woot.com/offers/...il&utm_term=0_c5ca76da11-e018f9f690-303976033


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Just got this e-mail from SD:



> Kickstarter Project Update #3
> 
> Stretch goals & extended subscription
> 
> ...


Currently, you can use Kodi (formerly known as XBMC) for recording and playback of live TV, but it requires using WMC as the backend. The HDHR DVR software eliminates the need to use WMC. Kodi would make a great DVR platform as it uses very little resources and can be run on very low powered, inexpensive PCs, such as the Raspberry Pi.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

HarperVision said:


> May be a good time to grab one if anyone wants to play with their upcoming DVR solution:
> 
> http://electronics.woot.com/offers/...il&utm_term=0_c5ca76da11-e018f9f690-303976033


Thanks I needed one for testing anyway. I will pledge for the software only on Kickstarter now.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

In case anyone's interested, the initial goal of $100K has been reached. Now I'm hoping they hit the $150k goal to develop the HDHR DVR for Kodi.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

The $150K goal was reached earlier today. This is the sweet spot I was hoping for. The only question is how long it will take SD to get the HDHR DVR software working in Kodi now that they're committed to it.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I pledged yesterday. I got a Prime last week from Woot! and with the news of MCE going away I figured this would be a good replacement. I mainly use all this stuff for testing VRD, but it's nice to have if my TiVos ever give up the ghost.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

It's not so much an issue of WMC "going away" as it is with whether or not Microsoft will continue to supply guide data. I never really saw the logic in going to Windows 8.1 to use WMC since it actually broke several things that previous WMC users enjoyed, such as compatibility with extenders other than the X-Box 360. WMC with 8.1 required the use of a costlier OS ($199 retail for Win 8.1 Pro) plus $10 for the WMC add-on. Windows 7 Home Premium included WMC at less than half the cost so it made no sense to me to pay more for a crippled product. 

As far as I'm concerned, WMC was no longer the product I enjoyed when they made it an add-on in Win 8.1. All of my WMC HTPCs run Windows 7 and I've never entertained the possibility of switching to the newer OS. Whatever performance benefits that were included in Windows 8 are completely irrelevant when it comes to using WMC.

WMC will never truly "go away" until people stop using it. Even if Microsoft stops providing guide data there are third party apps and providers that allow WMC users to import guide data from other sources. Microsoft has abandoned WMC with respect to further development. Right now it's just a waiting game to see when they finally pull the plug on the guide data. If the HDHR DVR lives up to expectations and they get it working with Kodi then I'll likely stop using WMC. Until then it's business as usual.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Things are starting to get interesting!

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...gined/posts/1229089?ref=backer_project_update


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

How many HDHomeRun tuners can you have on the same network? 24TB seems excessive for 3 tuners. But if you can have a bunch of them then maybe I could see this being useful for a big family.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> How many HDHomeRun tuners can you have on the same network? 24TB seems excessive for 3 tuners. But if you can have a bunch of them then maybe I could see this being useful for a big family.


I've heard of others having 4 of them for a total of 12 tuners. I had two HDHR Primes plus a reg HDHR with two tuners for ATSC OTA. It was cool how they melded together too, and you could tell them to record the network channels using the ota tuners first to keep your Cablecard Primes available for cable only programming.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> How many HDHomeRun tuners can you have on the same network? 24TB seems excessive for 3 tuners. But if you can have a bunch of them then maybe I could see this being useful for a big family.


The size of the NAS has no bearing on the number of tuners. Keep in mind that the NAS can be used for other storage besides DVR recordings. I've currently got nine HDHR tuners on my network (one 3-tuner Prime and three dual tuner Connects) and my drive for recorder storage is only 1.5TB. You can have as many tuners as your network bandwidth will support.


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## jafa (Jan 27, 2002)

Just installed a WD DL4100 24TB NAS at home for "long term QA testing" 

Very nice little box... four 6TB drives, RAID5 configuration by default, dual core Intel Atom CPU, dual GigE Ethernet ports, USB 3.0 ports.

Copied 3TB of existing recordings from my PC onto it last night. Transfer averaging over 100MB/s most of the time, and that was while it was recording a TV show.


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## Blakeintosh (Sep 8, 2014)

Hasn't Silicon Dust stated that they have an updated HDHR Prime coming With 6 tuners and onboard MPEG-4 encoding in the 2nd half of the year? I'm surprised the campaign doesn't offer that as a possible reward. I'm really pleased Silicon Dust is doing this. Competition is good for all! I'm hoping this develops into a full-featured solution for the average consumer, as well as highly customizable options for power users. TiVo seems to struggle with finding that balance, tending to lean closer to the average consumer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

There's been a massive surge in support for the HDHR DVR on Kisckstarter the past couple of days. As of Sunday morning they have exceeded the maximum goal of $250K so it looks like all of the stretch goals will be done. I don't know what the time frame is for developing things like Roku support since the basic DVR software is the priority, but it looks like everything on the wish list will be taken care of. Looks like I'm in the market for a NAS device.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

mr.unnatural said:


> There's been a massive surge in support for the HDHR DVR on Kisckstarter the past couple of days. As of Sunday morning they have exceeded the maximum goal of $250K so it looks like all of the stretch goals will be done. I don't know what the time frame is for developing things like Roku support since the basic DVR software is the priority, but it looks like everything on the wish list will be taken care of. Looks like I'm in the market for a NAS device.


How about this one? 



HarperVision said:


> Things are starting to get interesting! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1275320038/hdhomerun-dvr-the-dvr-re-imagined/posts/1229089?ref=backer_project_update


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I already have an unRAID server with 46.8TB of usable storage. I only need about 1-2TB for recordings. My primary HTPC does all of the recording chores and it only has a 1.5TB drive, half of which is occupied by various files. I tend to keep up with what I record so I don't have a huge backlog. At some point I'd like to be able to watch the movies stored on the server. 

Ideally, I'd like to see support for unRAID included in the HDHR DVR software. Now that they've exceeded their funding for stretch goals, perhaps they'll add it into the mix.


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

I only stumbled on this recently. I like the approach and the pricing, but the proof will be in the software. I'll wait and see. I worry that they'll have issues with protected content and Cable Labs.

The most interesting part to me is the AmazonTV client. Mostly since Netflix is a constant struggle on our Premieres and runs great on ATV. If the SD system works well, it could be our One Box.

I did ask a question about remote streaming and got this answer:


> The first release of the HDHomeRun DVR is focused on in-home recording and viewing.
> 
> For remote viewing you will need to set up a Plex media server on a PC. Plex will be able to access HDHomeRun recordings (unprotected channels) and you will be ablet o make use of Plex features such as remote viewing.


I already have a NAS and Plex running on a home server. But for a non-geek this is another step that's not exactly "zero configuration".


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

tlc said:


> I already have a NAS and Plex running on a home server. But for a non-geek this is another step that's not exactly "zero configuration".


The basic software is meant for the "non-geek" audience that just wants to watch and record TV. The stretch goals are there for the more advanced users. Setting up anything for remote viewing is going to be more complicated than just setting up a local DVR.

I'm doing my hardest not to comment on the source for your quote at the bottom of the post.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

tlc said:


> I only stumbled on this recently. I like the approach and the pricing, but the proof will be in the software. I'll wait and see. I worry that they'll have issues with protected content and Cable Labs.


I assume they're going to use DTCP-IP to protect the content, which is already approved by CableLabs, so I don't think they're going to have any issues with protected content. They're already using DTCP-IP to allow streaming of protected channels directly from the HDHomeRun to DTCP-IP enabled devices, and the CVP-2 spec allows for storage of the content as well.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

mr.unnatural said:


> Setting up anything for remote viewing is going to be more complicated than just setting up a local DVR.


You've never used a TiVo Stream I take it. While it's not the most reliable system in the world, it's really easy to setup. If you have a Roamio Plus/Pro all you have to do is open the app and try to play a show and it will take you through the setup, which basically makes you check a box saying you're only going to use it for personal viewing and the rest is automated. So setting up remote viewing doesn't have to be complicated.

That being said the HDHomeRun itself is a geek product. TiVo barely scratches the main stream, and everything else like the HDHR or the Ceton cards are uber geek products. Most average Joe's rent a DVR from their cable company.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> You've never used a TiVo Stream I take it. While it's not the most reliable system in the world, it's really easy to setup. If you have a Roamio Plus/Pro all you have to do is open the app and try to play a show and it will take you through the setup, which basically makes you check a box saying you're only going to use it for personal viewing and the rest is automated. So setting up remote viewing doesn't have to be complicated.
> 
> That being said the HDHomeRun itself is a geek product. TiVo barely scratches the main stream, and everything else like the HDHR or the Ceton cards are uber geek products. Most average Joe's rent a DVR from their cable company.


Nope. My last Tivo product was a S3 Tivo so I'm unfamiliar with their latest offerings other than what I read here. Been using HTPCs for the past 7 or 8 years. Anything Tivo offers would have to be easy to use or it wouldn't gain much market acceptance. They're still niche products at best and HTPCs even less so.


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## Blakeintosh (Sep 8, 2014)

Dan203 said:


> You've never used a TiVo Stream I take it. While it's not the most reliable system in the world, it's really easy to setup. If you have a Roamio Plus/Pro all you have to do is open the app and try to play a show and it will take you through the setup, which basically makes you check a box saying you're only going to use it for personal viewing and the rest is automated. So setting up remote viewing doesn't have to be complicated.


I'm really hoping that TiVo plans to improve Stream in the near future. I'm still stunned that iOS devices can't Stream OOH, but Android devices can! Someone explain to me the technical reason for that disparity! Slingbox has really gotten their streaming to about as good as it gets. That's not to say there aren't other issues with Slingbox. For example, their device control solution is awful. Trying to pick a show over the Slingbox interface on the iPhone can be maddening. That is where the TiVo app excels. Also, when you use your Sling Box, you commandeer your TiVo box. I've gotten some angry texts from my wife when I'm traveling on Business and her show get's changed on her!

My in-laws have Dish Network DVR with Sling built-in. That truly provides the best of both worlds....The stream reliability of Sling and the device integration of the TiVo app.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Blakeintosh said:


> I'm really hoping that TiVo plans to improve Stream in the near future. I'm still stunned that iOS devices can't Stream OOH, but Android devices can!


That's not true. iOS and Android can both stream OOH. The only discrepancy between the two is that Android can't download yet and iOS can. Otherwise they're functionally identical.

If you're having issues with OOH you should repeat setup. There is a special checkbox in the setup you have to check to enable OOH.


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## Blakeintosh (Sep 8, 2014)

Dan203 said:


> That's not true. iOS and Android can both stream OOH. The only discrepancy between the two is that Android can't download yet and iOS can. Otherwise they're functionally identical.
> 
> If you're having issues with OOH you should repeat setup. There is a special checkbox in the setup you have to check to enable OOH.


Dan, I should have been more specific. You are correct that you can stream OOH over WiFi, however when you are on a cellular connection, you must download before you can watch OOH. The Android app can stream over cellular. I can also stream on iOS over cellular from my Sling Box, so I don't think it's an iOS restriction. That was what I meant when I asked why does the iOS streaming over cellular restriction exist?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Blakeintosh said:


> Dan, I should have been more specific. You are correct that you can stream OOH over WiFi, however when you are on a cellular connection, you must download before you can watch OOH. The Android app can stream over cellular. I can also stream on iOS over cellular from my Sling Box, so I don't think it's an iOS restriction. That was what I meant when I asked why does the iOS streaming over cellular restriction exist?


Ohhhh.... Yeah this is actually caused by a restriction in Apple's policies. They do not allow apps to stream over cellular unless they have a mode capable of dropping to a very low bitrate. I forget what the actual value is, but it's lower then the stream can currently go. The last version of the iOS app actually had an expised debug menu where you could enable cellular streaming, so they have it working but it's turned off due to Apple's restriction. I'm not sure if they're working on adding another level so the bitrate can go low enough, or if the Stream hardware is even capable of metting that requirement.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Just in case someone wanted to play with the new HDHR DVR software, here's your cheap chance again:

http://electronics.woot.com/offers/silicondust-hdhomerun-prime-3-tuners-23?ref=ref=cnt_wp_1_7

$80 for an HDHR Prime


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

HarperVision said:


> Just in case someone wanted to play with the new HDHR DVR software, here's your cheap chance again:
> 
> http://electronics.woot.com/offers/silicondust-hdhomerun-prime-3-tuners-23?ref=ref=cnt_wp_1_7
> 
> $80 for an HDHR Prime


That was fast...GONE, Sold Out.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

CoxInPHX said:


> That was fast...GONE, Sold Out.


Damn!


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Looks like they only had 6 units, it was a Woot-Off


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Blakeintosh said:


> TiVo seems to struggle with finding that balance, tending to lean closer to the average consumer.


I can be a power user at times with my computers and smartphones and such, but when I kick back and relax and watch TV, I just want it to WORK. A good interface, and a reliable dedicated boxes are wonderful things.

That being said, while they may miss the July 29th obsolescence of MCE (although technically you could keep it limping along until 1/10/2023), having something to provide TiVo competition in a market that otherwise would become entirely TiVo's is definitely a good thing, even if they are targeting somewhat different markets.

Now with that being said, it looks like it may only work with their own hardware, which would suck bigtime, especially since they don't have a good CableCard option, only offer 3 tuners for each CableCard used, which is pretty pathetic compared to Ceton and TiVo's 6.

However, in terms of Ceton, they are a little concerning. They are all-in on MCE, and for all practical purposes, MCE is going away in less than 2 months. It doesn't seem like they have a plan B like SiliconDust does.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

CoxInPHX said:


> That was fast...GONE, Sold Out.


The Prime goes on sale quite often so keep a watch on some of the deal websites like slickdeals.net or dealnews.com.



Bigg said:


> Now with that being said, it looks like it may only work with their own hardware, which would suck bigtime, especially since they don't have a good CableCard option, only offer 3 tuners for each CableCard used, which is pretty pathetic compared to Ceton and TiVo's 6.


SD has been hinting at a 6-tuner model for quite some time. They had a 4-tuner version in the works but pulled back on it, but I can't recall what the reason was offhand.



> However, in terms of Ceton, they are a little concerning. They are all-in on MCE, and for all practical purposes, MCE is going away in less than 2 months. It doesn't seem like they have a plan B like SiliconDust does.


Where are you coming up with this 2-month timeline? Just because it's not being included with Windows 10 doesn't mean it's going away. MCE will be in use for as long as guide data is available. There are third party options for guide data even if Microsoft pulls the plug.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I think he's referring to Win10 release, which is actually only about 6 weeks out. (7/29) For people that upgrade it will uninstall MCE. Obviously people that use MCE will not upgrade, but they may have to start using a 3rd party data service soon. If enough people jump ship to Win10 they may cut data support sooner rather then later.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> I think he's referring to Win10 release, which is actually only about 6 weeks out. (7/29) For people that upgrade it will uninstall MCE. Obviously people that use MCE will not upgrade, but they may have to start using a 3rd party data service soon. If enough people jump ship to Win10 they may cut data support sooner rather then later.


If I had to wager, I'd bet that they won't drop support for WMC until support for Windows 8.1 is officially ended. Then again, Microsoft has a habit of doing things that piss off their customers so all bets are off.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

There is talk of MS adding DVR capabilities to XBox One. If they do that then we might have a viable alternative to MCE. (in addition to HDHomeRun DVR) Although I wonder what sort of tuner they'll use. External obviously, but will it be USB or network based like HDHomeRun?


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I've heard rumors to that effect about the Xbox. That's great for Xbox One owners, but it doesn't do much for the thousands of people that own older XBoxes. It just sounds like another ploy by Microsoft to sell more of their products instead of bundling it with Windows.

As for alternatives to MCE, there are already lots of them available. Most of them are more complex to set up and configure, but they're out there if you want options. The only thing that separates MCE from the rest of the pack is the ability to record flagged channels. Unless you're stuck with a provider that likes to flag everything you should be able to use any of the optional programs for recording channels that are copy freely. 

The first evaluation copy of the HDHR DVR software should be available to Kickstarter contributors in the next week or two so I'm looking forward to taking it for a spin.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

mr.unnatural said:


> Where are you coming up with this 2-month timeline? Just because it's not being included with Windows 10 doesn't mean it's going away. MCE will be in use for as long as guide data is available. There are third party options for guide data even if Microsoft pulls the plug.


Nice selective quoting. I clearly state that it could limp along until 2023. I didn't even think about the guide data issue, so that's assuming that they provide guide data right up to the end.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Has anybody installed this and played with it yet?


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## jafa (Jan 27, 2002)

I play with it every day 

It works well for setting up a series recording for watching later.
Live TV features are not in place yet.

The new Windows 10 app was released last week. We are making constant improvements and releasing updates.

Nick


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

JETarpon said:


> Has anybody installed this and played with it yet?


You can have my authorization code if you want to try it yourself (for a small fee). I gave to the kickstarter but ended up selling my Prime and getting a Tivo quite a while ago, so I have no use for it.

There is a lot of discussion and feedback in the SD forums. From what I've heard so far, it's slow, guide is terrible (more like non-existent) and DRM still isn't supported. I hope they are ultimately successful, but they have a very long way to go.


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## jafa (Jan 27, 2002)

mdavej said:


> There is a lot of discussion and feedback in the SD forums. From what I've heard so far, it's slow, guide is terrible (more like non-existent)


The new Windows 10 app has 14-day look ahead guide from the live TV screen.

Nick


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

jafa said:


> The new Windows 10 app has 14-day look ahead guide from the live TV screen.
> 
> Nick


Glad to hear it. A screen shot of the guide would be great.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I backed this for my mom, who has an HDHomeRun Prime and is using Windows Media Center on Win8.1, but the View app is not yet functional enough for her use. (This is also what is blocking her from upgrading to Win10.) I wish I knew what to tell her when she keeps asking me when it's ok to go to Win10.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

mdavej said:


> You can have my authorization code if you want to try it yourself (for a small fee). I gave to the kickstarter but ended up selling my Prime and getting a Tivo quite a while ago, so I have no use for it.


I'm a backer, so I have a code. I just hadn't installed it yet.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Is it feasible to install and run this on the same computer, using the same HDHR Primes, that are currently used for WMC?


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

No, because this app currently requires Win10, and Win10 removes WMC.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

stevel said:


> No, because this app currently requires Win10, and Win10 removes WMC.


True, but you can simply reinstall WMC on Win 10. Perhaps JETarpon is already running Win 10.
http://forums.mydigitallife.info/th...on-Windows-10-final-amp-possible-alternatives


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## BRiT wtfdotcom (Dec 17, 2015)

stevel said:


> I backed this for my mom, who has an HDHomeRun Prime and is using Windows Media Center on Win8.1, but the View app is not yet functional enough for her use. (This is also what is blocking her from upgrading to Win10.) I wish I knew what to tell her when she keeps asking me when it's ok to go to Win10.


Have you looked into the community-based update to install Windows Media Center on Windows 10? From what I have read, everything is working fine, including DRM recordings and live tv.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

stevel said:


> No, because this app currently requires Win10, and Win10 removes WMC.


The HDHomeRun VIEW app requires Win10. I'm talking about the server, which can run on Windows 7. Kodi can then be used as a client. HDHomeRun VIEW isn't necessary at all.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

To follow-up, it seems to be possible, as long as you are careful not to have more recordings scheduled than tuners available.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

My Prime isn't hooked up right now. I had it installed but when I got the Bolt it added an extra split to the cable and I had to remove the Prime to get the MoCa network to work. I was gonna move it down stairs but I haven't got around to it yet. I don't really have a need for the Prime anyway. I mainly got it for testing with VideoReDo and right now that's not really at the top if the priority list.


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

stevel said:


> I backed this for my mom, who has an HDHomeRun Prime and is using Windows Media Center on Win8.1, but the View app is not yet functional enough for her use. (This is also what is blocking her from upgrading to Win10.) I wish I knew what to tell her when she keeps asking me when it's ok to go to Win10.


I would never use Windows 10 for an HTPC, or a computer you maintain for a family member you don't live with. I've installed it on four computers and two that were stable before became unstable. One so bad that it quit booting twice after updates, and every time I tried to install a new print driver by any means. That machine was maybe a maybe four year old Toshiba laptop with virtually no user added software on it--and I stumbled across other Toshiba owners with the same printer problem.


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## aspexil (Oct 16, 2015)

GoodSpike said:


> I would never use Windows 10 for an HTPC, or a computer you maintain for a family member you don't live with. I've installed it on four computers and two that were stable before became unstable. One so bad that it quit booting twice after updates, and every time I tried to install a new print driver by any means. That machine was maybe a maybe four year old Toshiba laptop with virtually no user added software on it--and I stumbled across other Toshiba owners with the same printer problem.


Reminds me of the old Sony Vaio laptop my wife had back in the late 90s. Sony quit supporting her laptop (even though it was only a couple of years old) with new drivers for the new Windows OS releases. So even though it was a good laptop it eventually just could not keep up. Swore off Sony after that as all of my Thinkpads never had issues with updated drivers for new Windows OS releases. That said a few years ago we switch to Macs and haven't looked back.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

GoodSpike said:


> I would never use Windows 10 for an HTPC, or a computer you maintain for a family member you don't live with. I've installed it on four computers and two that were stable before became unstable. One so bad that it quit booting twice after updates, and every time I tried to install a new print driver by any means. That machine was maybe a maybe four year old Toshiba laptop with virtually no user added software on it--and I stumbled across other Toshiba owners with the same printer problem.


My experience has been good here with the Windows 10 update. I've updated 5 of our PC's. 3 from Windows 8 and 2 from Windows 7 (including 1 very old HP laptop). No issues here and definitely prefer it over Windows 8 for a desktop/laptop (although I prefer Windows 8 on a tablet).

Scott


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## jim1971 (Oct 11, 2015)

Sounds interesting ... but will it work if you have a switch on your network?? (ha ha)

Seriously, I'm always curious about new ways to get media around the house and while on the road. Kind of a hobby. I didn't know about this before I read this thread today. I'll look into it.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

HerronScott said:


> My experience has been good here with the Windows 10 update. I've updated 5 of our PC's. 3 from Windows 8 and 2 from Windows 7 (including 1 very old HP laptop). No issues here and definitely prefer it over Windows 8 for a desktop/laptop (although I prefer Windows 8 on a tablet).
> 
> Scott


Were all of the updates to Windows 10 64-bit? All of my Windows 7 machines are running 32-bit. Converting to 64 bit requires a wipe and clean install.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

CharlesH said:


> Were all of the updates to Windows 10 64-bit? All of my Windows 7 machines are running 32-bit. Converting to 64 bit requires a wipe and clean install.


4 were already 64-bit while the older HP laptop with Windows 7 is 32-bit (and that was an in-place upgrade from Vista to Windows 7 and now to Windows 10). I thought about doing a clean install on it but no real gains other than a consistent 64-bit platform across all our PC's (tablets are still 32-bit) since it has less than 4GB of RAM.

Scott


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

GoodSpike said:


> I would never use Windows 10 for an HTPC, or a computer you maintain for a family member you don't live with. I've installed it on four computers and two that were stable before became unstable. One so bad that it quit booting twice after updates, and every time I tried to install a new print driver by any means. That machine was maybe a maybe four year old Toshiba laptop with virtually no user added software on it--and I stumbled across other Toshiba owners with the same printer problem.


I would. When my HTPC gets the update, it's getting Win10. I've both experienced and heard nothing but good things about Win10.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

A big thanks to mdavej for pointing me at the forum thread showing how to get WMC working on Win10. I successfully installed this on my mom's system and it is working great with the HD HomeRun Prime. I tried the "beta" View app and it would not run.


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

Bigg said:


> I would. When my HTPC gets the update, it's getting Win10. I've both experienced and heard nothing but good things about Win10.


You apparently don't read as many tech sites as I do. It is hard to find articles about people having issues with Windows 10, but they are out there. And when you do have a problem, researching it you'll find lots of people having the same issue. For example, on one of my machines the start menu, Edge browser, recently opened files in the Quick-start bar and the Action Center all quit working, apparently due to their relying on the same tech of some sort. In the Microsoft site you'll find four different possible fixes, some of which are quite complex, and none of which work for everyone. For me none worked--I had to do a system restore.

I'm just glad that the one machine working well is the wife's, because I'd hate to be facing her wrath since she didn't ask for her machine to be updated.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

GoodSpike said:


> You apparently don't read as many tech sites as I do. It is hard to find articles about people having issues with Windows 10, but they are out there. And when you do have a problem, researching it you'll find lots of people having the same issue. For example, on one of my machines the start menu, Edge browser, recently opened files in the Quick-start bar and the Action Center all quit working, apparently due to their relying on the same tech of some sort. In the Microsoft site you'll find four different possible fixes, some of which are quite complex, and none of which work for everyone. For me none worked--I had to do a system restore.
> 
> I'm just glad that the one machine working well is the wife's, because I'd hate to be facing her wrath since she didn't ask for her machine to be updated.


I don't doubt that there are issues somewhere. Windows is so complex, and runs on so many different hardware configurations, with so much different software running on top that it's eventually going to have issues. However, from everything I've heard, the Windows 10 upgrade has gone pretty smoothly, due in large part to the underlying OS being very similar to Windows 8, but without the weird tablet-centric UI that Windows 8 had.

What I did find funny about Windows 8 though is how much people complained about the UI, when it is really easy to bring the Start Menu back with one of several free programs and make it look fundamentally similar to Windows 7/Vista/XP/2000/NT4/ME/98/95.


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

Bigg said:


> What I did find funny about Windows 8 though is how much people complained about the UI, when it is really easy to bring the Start Menu back with one of several free programs and make it look fundamentally similar to Windows 7/Vista/XP/2000/NT4/ME/98/95.


Some people don't like change. The tech press found some of them and ran with that as a story for 8.0/8.1.

Just today I saw a post from someone who tried Windows 10 but converted back because the colors and themes were not the same as what he had with the prior version of Windows.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

GoodSpike said:


> Some people don't like change. The tech press found some of them and ran with that as a story for 8.0/8.1.
> 
> Just today I saw a post from someone who tried Windows 10 but converted back because the colors and themes were not the same as what he had with the prior version of Windows.


And some people don't like things that suck. Win 8.x sucked on every level.


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

mdavej said:


> And some people don't like things that suck. Win 8.x sucked on every level.


No it didn't. I much prefer 8.1 to 7, although I prefer 10 to 8.1, as far as the GUI goes. For reliable operation I prefer 8.1.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

I maintaining 4 computers. Had Windows XP, 7, 8.1, & 10 all at the same time (the XP was recently replaced with another 7). I find peoples love/hate issue with the UI of any of them amusing. The UIs on all of them worked just fine and unless you are in IT support after setup how much does the UI matter? A few clicks and you have the program you want to use open and running. Yes 8/8.1 took a few minutes to figure out how to do some setup but really like it has been said you just installed one program and you could be back to an old style looking/acting UI. 

I also found/find it amusing how people complained (and still do) about the old SD TiVo UI as being old and stale and how the few older style screens in the HD TiVo UI are killing them. So Microsoft sucks because they tried something new and TiVo sucks because they don't change stuff fast enough 

The reality is no UI is going to make everyone happy and regardless of what the change is someone will hate it and want further change that someone else will hate and so on and so on.


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

atmuscarella said:


> I also found/find it amusing how people complained (and still do) about the old SD TiVo UI as being old and stale and how the few older style screens in the HD TiVo UI are killing them. So Microsoft sucks because they tried something new and TiVo sucks because they don't change stuff fast enough


Exactly. A lot of UI changes are just change for change sake. Back in the early Windows days I remember most the changes to versions of WordPerfect were just moving commands to different places, as if that was somehow better. No wonder they failed (in addition to betting on OS/2).

But you did hit on another point. I was really looking forward to Windows 10 because it meant all the computers I supported would be on the same OS. I wouldn't have to think about which one it was. But with no WMC and Windows 10 being unstable on two of my computers and one modern netbook not upgrading at all, I'm left with a collection. Fortunately it's just 8.1 and 10, which are fairly similar.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

atmuscarella said:


> I maintaining 4 computers. Had Windows XP, 7, 8.1, & 10 all at the same time (the XP was recently replaced with another 7). I find peoples love/hate issue with the UI of any of them amusing. The UIs on all of them worked just fine and unless you are in IT support after setup how much does the UI matter? A few clicks and you have the program you want to use open and running. Yes 8/8.1 took a few minutes to figure out how to do some setup but really like it has been said you just installed one program and you could be back to an old style looking/acting UI.
> 
> I also found/find it amusing how people complained (and still do) about the old SD TiVo UI as being old and stale and how the few older style screens in the HD TiVo UI are killing them. So Microsoft sucks because they tried something new and TiVo sucks because they don't change stuff fast enough
> 
> The reality is no UI is going to make everyone happy and regardless of what the change is someone will hate it and want further change that someone else will hate and so on and so on.


I thought Tivo's SD UI was too old and stale and Tivo was too slow getting with the times and I thought Windows 8 was a crappy UI for a desktop so I never bought it.

I think UI matters alot. I like the Mac UI enough that I have had Mac around for 8 years now despite having a few windows computers in the office as well.

It just seems easier to deal with on a daily basis. But even then there's a few things I don't like about its UI.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

GoodSpike said:


> But you did hit on another point. I was really looking forward to Windows 10 because it meant all the computers I supported would be on the same OS. I wouldn't have to think about which one it was. But with no WMC...


WMC can be installed on Win10 now, it's a user hack.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

slowbiscuit said:


> WMC can be installed on Win10 now, it's a user hack.


Do you happen to know if the XBox One can now be used as a client box now too?


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

GoodSpike said:


> Some people don't like change. The tech press found some of them and ran with that as a story for 8.0/8.1.
> 
> Just today I saw a post from someone who tried Windows 10 but converted back because the colors and themes were not the same as what he had with the prior version of Windows.


Wow, that's pretty bad. Windows 10 is the future. They're going to be using it eventually one way or the other. Best to just go with the flow and update now!


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## BRiT wtfdotcom (Dec 17, 2015)

HarperVision said:


> Do you happen to know if the XBox One can now be used as a client box now too?


No. XBOX ONE does not have any WMC Extender software.
But you can use Xbox One Media Player to connect to DLNA servers such as Emby to play videos.
Or you can install a Plex server and use the Plex Client on Xbox One.


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

slowbiscuit said:


> WMC can be installed on Win10 now, it's a user hack.


I'd heard that, but I think the mainstream hack was after I bought the Tivo.

Also, the guide data issue on WMC was starting to drive me nuts. It's nice to have guide data that actually knows which team is playing in each football game and doesn't treat each game as a different showing of the same game.
I like WMC, but that was making it worse.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

GoodSpike said:


> I'd heard that, but I think the mainstream hack was after I bought the Tivo.
> 
> Also, the guide data issue on WMC was starting to drive me nuts. It's nice to have guide data that actually knows which team is playing in each football game and doesn't treat each game as a different showing of the same game.
> I like WMC, but that was making it worse.


Agree. The new guide data provider is horrible.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

WMC w/extenders is a poor competitor to any modern Tivo w/Minis. It does have a few advantages but the flaws are much more glaring compared to the (mostly) seamless experience of a whole-home Tivo setup. And given that WMC and the current extenders are dead-ends, even more so.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Bigg said:


> Wow, that's pretty bad. Windows 10 is the future. They're going to be using it eventually one way or the other. Best to just go with the flow and update now!


No need to upgrade to windows 10 until 2020 when the security updates stop for windows 7. It's better to wait a year or two before upgrading, especially since WMC isn't officially supported in Windows 10.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

I've been pretty happy with the capabilities of WMC and the extenders. I'm curious what these "glaring flaws" are. That WMC is a dead-end is certainly a problem. That's why I'm here in the HDHomerun DVR thread.


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

JETarpon said:


> I've been pretty happy with the capabilities of WMC and the extenders. I'm curious what these "glaring flaws" are. That WMC is a dead-end is certainly a problem. That's why I'm here in the HDHomerun DVR thread.


My main issue with it was the guide data after the change last year, but you can certainly do more with Tivo more easily than with WMC. For example scheduling new recordings from another computer on your network.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

shwru980r said:


> No need to upgrade to windows 10 until 2020 when the security updates stop for windows 7. It's better to wait a year or two before upgrading, especially since WMC isn't officially supported in Windows 10.


I don't being boring and outdated like my company's IT department.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

JETarpon said:


> I've been pretty happy with the capabilities of WMC and the extenders. I'm curious what these "glaring flaws" are. That WMC is a dead-end is certainly a problem. That's why I'm here in the HDHomerun DVR thread.


Not really interested in a Tivo vs. WMC debate again here, there are threads that you can search for on this board. The folks that have used both setups know the pros and cons of each.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Bigg said:


> I don't being boring and outdated like my company's IT department.


I find looking at the colored rectangles in Win 10 to be more boring than watching WMC in Win 7, outdated or not.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Bigg said:


> I don't being boring and outdated like my company's IT department.


If it isn't broken, don't fix it. Flying by the seat of your pants and deploying an unsupported software configuration could result in wearing a paper hat and asking folks if they want fries with their meal, which would be infinitely more boring.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mdavej said:


> I find looking at the colored rectangles in Win 10 to be more boring than watching WMC in Win 7, outdated or not.


1. You don't have to look at colored rectangles in Win 10.
2. You can install WMC on Win 10.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

DevdogAZ said:


> 1. You don't have to look at colored rectangles in Win 10.
> 2. You can install WMC on Win 10.


You couldn't until recently. And only very recently was it mostly functional (DRM, extenders, etc.). Far too late for me since I replaced WMC with Tivo months ago, in the middle of the Rovi debacle.

Also, MS could, at any moment, update and kill the WMC hack. Then you're right back to looking at colored rectangles.

The alternative is to keep using Win 7 which will most likely work indefinitely, especially with the progress being made with 3rd party guide data.

So no, I'm not convinced that Win 10 belongs on my WMC HTPC, if I still had such a thing.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mdavej said:


> You couldn't until recently. And only very recently was it mostly functional (DRM, extenders, etc.). Far too late for me since I replaced WMC with Tivo months ago, in the middle of the Rovi debacle.
> 
> Also, MS could, at any moment, update and kill the WMC hack. Then you're right back to looking at colored rectangles.
> 
> ...


I'm not getting the "colored rectangles" crack. I have Win 10 and the interface is very similar to Win 7 with a few minor updates. I pin all my most commonly-used programs to the taskbar and so I rarely ever have to click the Start button. If you want to stay stuck in the past, that's fine. And you rely on WMC for your entertainment needs and you're afraid the hack to make it work with Win 10 will go away, that makes perfect sense. But otherwise, there's really no graphical or usability reason not to move to Win 10. It's very stable, works well, and operates pretty much the same as Win 7.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'm not getting the "colored rectangles" crack. I have Win 10 and the interface is very similar to Win 7 with a few minor updates. I pin all my most commonly-used programs to the taskbar and so I rarely ever have to click the Start button. If you want to stay stuck in the past, that's fine. And you rely on WMC for your entertainment needs and you're afraid the hack to make it work with Win 10 will go away, that makes perfect sense. But otherwise, there's really no graphical or usability reason not to move to Win 10. It's very stable, works well, and operates pretty much the same as Win 7.


https://www.google.com/search?q=win...0&newwindow=1&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X

95% show a bunch of colored rectangles which add no value whatsoever to my life. That's what I gain by moving to Win 10.

I'm not stuck in the past. All my PC's except one run Win 10. I even have WMC running on one of them, as you do. However, I do not rely on it. I don't even use it. I have no plans to use it.

How many extenders are you running, and how are they working with DRM? I had 6 Ceton Echoes on my old WMC system. That's utterly impossible with Win 10. They'd all have to be Xboxes. So what do I gain other than colored rectangles in exchange for losing TV on 6 screeens?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mdavej said:


> https://www.google.com/search?q=win...0&newwindow=1&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X
> 
> 95% show a bunch of colored rectangles which add no value whatsoever to my life. That's what I gain by moving to Win 10.
> 
> ...


If you're using Win 10 then you know that you can use it just like you do Win 7 and you don't have to ever (or rarely) look at "colored rectangles. And even if you do briefly see them, you can simply ignore them.

I tried WMC briefly several years ago. I could never get my XBox360 to work properly as an extender. And since I have TiVos, I didn't bother with it too much. So the loss of WMC in moving to Win 10 wasn't a big deal to me. If using WMC something you consider essential, I can totally understand not wanting to move to Win 10. I simply don't get the "colored rectangles" complaint, as that's such a minor and non-essential part of Win 10.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

DevdogAZ said:


> If you're using Win 10 then you know that you can use it just like you do Win 7 and you don't have to ever (or rarely) look at "colored rectangles. And even if you do briefly see them, you can simply ignore them.
> 
> I tried WMC briefly several years ago. I could never get my XBox360 to work properly as an extender. And since I have TiVos, I didn't bother with it too much. So the loss of WMC in moving to Win 10 wasn't a big deal to me. If using WMC something you consider essential, I can totally understand not wanting to move to Win 10. I simply don't get the "colored rectangles" complaint, as that's such a minor and non-essential part of Win 10.


You're telling me to embrace the future and get Windows 10. I'm saying, if I do that, instead of watching TV as I would through WMC on Win 7, I would be stuck looking at a TV-less Win 10 screen, most likely covered in colored rectangles. In other words, I'd go from watching something to watching nothing. I understand that WMC kind of works in Win 10, but not enough for me to even use my $600 worth of extenders (you couldn't even get one working in Win 7 apparently), and not enough for me to trust that it won't stop working at any moment.

So I wouldn't want to risk losing my entire entertainment system for the sake of a few new live tiles, colored rectangles, whatever you prefer to call them. That is essentially the biggest GUI difference between Win 10 and Win 7 that one sees when one uses Win 10.

This is all purely for argument's sake since I no longer use WMC. I replaced it with Tivo as you did.

I don't understand why you are trying to convince me that WMC on Win 10 is better than WMC on Win 7 when neither of us even uses WMC. It's risky and not fully functional, and the guide data absolutely sucks regardless of what OS it's on.

And I don't understand why you are trying to convince me to run Win 10 when I already run it on every PC I own EXCEPT my old WMC PC. Unless by some miracle, MS resurrects WMC and starts selling a Win 10 version, I will never "upgrade" my old Win 7 WMC PC.


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'm not getting the "colored rectangles" crack. I have Win 10 and the interface is very similar to Win 7 with a few minor updates.


My guess is they tried Windows 8 for a short time, couldn't figure it out, and went back to 7. But in any case, they're a user that can't handle change. Not worth arguing about.

Microsoft made a horrible mistake having Windows 8 launch to Metro. It only took one click to get out of it each boot, but that was too much for some people.

I'd disagree with you on Windows 10 being stable. 2 of the 4 machines I updated became unstable, one to the extent that it required system restore or system reset repeatedly.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

GoodSpike said:


> My guess is they tried Windows 8 for a short time, couldn't figure it out, and went back to 7. But in any case, they're a user that can't handle change. Not worth arguing about.


No guessing required. I've told you exactly. To reiterate, every PC I have is running Win 10, EXCEPT my old WMC PC. Most of them ran Win 8.1 before that, and Win 8 before that. I have not failed to "figure out" Win 8 or Win 10 or been "unable to handle change". I have not gone back to Win 7. All I am saying is that I will not, under any circumstances, upgrade my WMC PC to Win 10 as long as Win 7 is working fine. I'll also add that I did not like Win 8.x in the least, in spite of banishing the colored rectangles and using a start menu replacement. I was very glad to move to Win 10.

Your idea of "handling change" is to upgrade for the sake of upgrading regardless of the loss in functionality. You said yourself that Win 10 doesn't even work on 50% of your machines. So why do you insist I also break my WMC machine for the sake of "change"?

When I look at Win 10, I see tiles (I realize there are many ways to avoid them). When I look at WMC, I see all my live and recorded cable TV. I'd rather watch the latter.


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

mdavej said:


> When I look at Win 10, I see tiles (I realize there are many ways to avoid them). When I look at WMC, I see all my live and recorded cable TV. I'd rather watch the latter.


Sorry I mis-guessed and/or didn't remember. But I seldom see tiles using Windows 10, thus the assumption you didn't use it. If I hit the "Start" button it's almost always with a right click.

FWIW, my HTPC before it died had Windows 7, but I wish I'd upgraded it to 8.1 to use the Netflix app.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mdavej said:


> I don't understand why you are trying to convince me that WMC on Win 10 is better than WMC on Win 7 when neither of us even uses WMC. It's risky and not fully functional, and the guide data absolutely sucks regardless of what OS it's on.


You missed my point. I'm not trying to convince you to switch to Win 10 or saying that WMC is better. I personally haven't used WMC on Win 10, as I only tested it very briefly many years ago on Win 7 and never found any real use for it. I was simply pointing out two flaws in your statement: 1. That Win 10 is much more than just "colored rectangles" and 2. That WMC can be installed on Win 10. That's it. I never said it was better. I never encouraged you to switch.



mdavej said:


> And I don't understand why you are trying to convince me to run Win 10 when I already run it on every PC I own EXCEPT my old WMC PC. Unless by some miracle, MS resurrects WMC and starts selling a Win 10 version, I will never "upgrade" my old Win 7 WMC PC.


Again, not trying to convince you of anything. I simply took issue with your "colored rectangles" line to describe Win 10, because that makes it sound like you've never used Win 10 and are basing your opinion on Win 8's Metro interface.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

shwru980r said:


> If it isn't broken, don't fix it. Flying by the seat of your pants and deploying an unsupported software configuration could result in wearing a paper hat and asking folks if they want fries with their meal, which would be infinitely more boring.


I understand how these slow-moving behemoths function, and how they got there. I was just stating the fact that they are boring and slow-moving.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I simply took issue with your "colored rectangles" line to describe Win 10, because that makes it sound like you've never used Win 10 and are basing your opinion on Win 8's Metro interface.


Live Tiles are great on Windows Phone or a Windows 8 tablet but I'm glad to have my Start menu back with Windows 10. I don't mind where they've put the Live Tiles in the Start menu but you get so little benefit there. It would be so much better if I could maintain the normal desktop and Start menu and be able to pin Live Tile to the desktop so you still get the benefits.

Scott


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

So it's been like a year and this thing still isn't out of beta, nor does it support DRM channels.  

I'm happy with my TiVos, for now, but it would be nice to have an alternative. Especially since I've upgraded to Win10 and can no longer even access my HDHomeRun Prim any more. (should probably just unplug it and save some power)


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## BRiT wtfdotcom (Dec 17, 2015)

Their progress is sad. It's been 20 months since they launched the kickstarter and are nowhere near being usable for most users.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I haven't gone through this entire thread, but let me start by saying that I was a Kickstarter supporter of the HDHomeRun DVR campaign from the very beginning. In fact, I paid an extra $100 for four extra years of guide data that I will never use. I haven't used the DVR app in months, but it was atrocious when I did. The UI is a complete travesty and not intuitive at all. The lack of a grid guide is a major fail even though they've explained why it was never implemented. I installed EPG123 on all of my WMC PCs and now I have complete independence from Microsoft and Rovi. Every one of my WMC HTPCs runs Windows 7 and I couldn't be happier. I could never wrap my head around why anyone would ever want to use WMC with Win 8.1 and even less so with Windows 10. It's native in Windows 7 and works just fine as a DVR, even though it lacks many of the bells and whistles of a current Tivo. The only reason I considered using the HDHR DVR app was because Microsoft could pull the plug on guide data anytime they wished. Using EPG123 allows me to use guide data from Tribune Media/Zap2it and free myself from the shackles of Microsoft. I have uninstalled the HDHR DVR app from all of my HTPCs and will continue to use WMC for as long as my provider allows me to use a cablecard. Even if that's no longer possible I can still use it for OTA.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

I hadn't seen EPG123. I'll have to get that. The program guide data since Microsoft switched providers has been absolutely horrible. Especially for college sports. "Teams to be decided" is not an acceptable description.


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

I got an nVidia Shield TV Pro a few weeks ago, looking to make it my all-in-one device, replacing my Dune media player, Roku, and Tivo. Last week I bought a HDHomeRun Duo, last yr's model, used on ebay, $40. Using it with the Shield and the Kodi HDHR add-on. My Tivo is a series 3 so I don't know about the newer models but I'm liking this DVR setup as much or more than my Tivo. Kodi is just an awesome program and the HDHR add-on works great - the program grids, the navigation, the options, all are much better in the add-on than in the HDHR android stand-alone app for the Shield. The DVR service is only $35 a year, cheap enough. Very pleased.


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