# How do I hate the SA 8300? Let me count the ways



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Luckily I don't have one of these but my boyfriend does. Over the summer when viewing was light it wasn't that bad. But now it's showing it's true colors. We have the worst possible software too (whatever old Adelphia used to use). Some of the worst offenses:

Only 7 days of guide data. On Wed. you can't see NEXT Wed.

Constantly records next-day repeats (ie: recorded Heroes on Monday and then the same episode the next day)

Can't cancel single shows. Want to cancel that Tuesday Heroes recording? Too bad, you have to cancel the entire Heroes "season pass". Then you have to re-set it up later.

Can't limit recordings to just one day of the week each week (like "only on Mondays").

No "season pass manager". No way to see what "season passes" you have other than what's upcoming in the next 7 days.

No Undelete. No Wishlists. No searching. No "View Upcoming Episodes".

HD compression.

No way to hide channels you don't receive from the Channel Guide. No "favorites" either.


I know some of the software updates will make it better... but who knows when/if that's available.

I'm having trouble justifying $800 for a S3 since I don't have digital or HD cable myself, don't rent a DVR and don't even pay for cable (it's included in my rent). But if I was currently renting a POS like the SA 8300 myself, that $800 would be spent immediately!


Your thoughts?


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## Dajad (Oct 7, 1999)

Oh my gosh, you haven't even plumbed the depths of this piece of crap!!!! Give it awhile, you'll come up with many more worse things. Ever try to watch a show while its recording. That's fun! Wait until it stops recording. Or, if you stop watching a show then want to start up where you last left off. Oops, doesn't do that either. 

The bottom line with that boat anchor is, the only reliable way to make sure the shows you want recorded are actually recorded is to have a TiVo running side by side catching everything it misses. That's the only way my 8300 works.

But, I do not think it does any compression of the HD signal. If you are getting artifacts and such, that is your MSO's doing, not the box itself.

...Dale


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Oh yes! The 'watching while recording' is what prompted my original post.

We were watching Jericho while it was recording. When Justice began recording suddenly - without warning - Jericho changed to whatever was currently on CBS. Huh?

Also, naturally, it couldn't play from where we "left off" (more like "were abandoned"). Ugh.


As for compression, I get MUCH less artifacts on my OTA 26" setup than his cable 48" so it must be the cable co  I actually prefer my HD to his because of it! And his is almost twice as big. (no pun intended  )


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## dbtom (Feb 14, 2002)

You are dead-on with your gripes about the 8300. I was all set to swap it for an S3, but then I was disappointed with the limitations of the S3. 

Instead, I spent $250 and added a 500GB HD eSata drive to the 8300 for a total of 750GB in recording space. Now most of my problems with the 8300 have gone away. My biggest problem was that stuff seemed to just disappear. Now I have a lot more room and I can deal with most of the problems. 

Here are my 8300 advantages over the S3.

- No install required
- No worries about future compatibility with switched video, etc.
- Picture-in-picture capability
- VOD / PPV capability
- Can view tv, while looking at guide or recording shows
- External storage enabled today

It's not perfect, but I think it's a better solution today given the limitations of the S3.


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## Tippy (Oct 12, 2004)

I know my S3 with two cable cards is a bit extravagant but the limitations of and frustrations with the 8300HD made me take the leap to the S3. I now love having recorded HD programs that are in a user-friendly format. I still have the 8300 but I will probably return it soon for a standard, non-recording HD box (for PPV/VOD when necessary). I've cussed at that awful box so many times in the past year or so!


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

No one can hate this box more than me. It's an impossibility of the human condition for anyone to surpass my dislike/hatred for this steaming turd.

Among all of the other grips that have been previously posted (kick to live, busted guide data, no wishlists, 6+ day guide data, etc), allow me to expand upon the list for your amusement :

- the craptacular "series recording" options, which limit you to recording a show :
1) every single showing at any time. This lovely "feature" tends to fill up this POS's feeble ToDo list quite rapidly on shows with multiple repeats per week.
2) showings only at a particular time. What they fail to tell you is that the day of the week isn't considered in this calculation. So, if you've got a two 10PM shows on Sunday, and one on Tuesday, you're SOL. Nice conflict resolution.... NOT!​
- the multiple times where it decided to record 1 minute slices of a 1.5 hour program that I was recording, leaving me with the enjoyable task of having to delete every single 1-minute recording manually. Try hitting "list"+"select"+"down"+"down"+"select"+"A" about 60 times and see how happy you are after that joyous waste of time.

- the times where the box decides to repeatedly reboot while a recording of a particular show is occurring. Once that program's done, the box will finally stop resetting.

- The Fisher-Price GUI. It's a step above a Commodore 64, but not by much...


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## Dajad (Oct 7, 1999)

Paul, it may be an impossibility of the human condition to hate it more than you but I will at least say I hate it as much as you!!!!

I'm going through hell in a hay basket to purchase and use a crippled S3 in Canada (no cablecard, no OTA guide data) just to minimize my reliance on the 8300 as much as possible.

It appears the forum owners have disabled the ability to search the archives here. I have posted long reviews/comparissons of this box and the TiVo siting all of the deficiencies of this box. Others have as well. Unfortuantely they all seem to have dropped into the unsearchable archives. ARgh!!!

Another thing that drives me bonkers is that you can set shows to EITHER (i) delete after a preset number of days; or (ii) never delete. That's it. There's no first in-first out option or any other way to manage your saved shows. So, if you chose option 1, your shows start disappearing after the set number of days - EVEN IF YOU HAVE LOTS OF SPACE LEFT ON YOUR HARD DRIVE. Or, if you choose option (ii) when the small hard drive is full, its full, and nothing else will record. How completely stupid is this!!!! I've chosen option (ii) so I have to babysit this sucker every freak'n day to make sure it isn't full. And as it gets closer to getting filled it becomes completely unreliable.

Hell, it is already completely unreliable. You can NEVER be sure if a show will record or not. For every show I care about, I literally have TiVo record the SD version simultaneously so that I won't miss the weekly unrecorded shows on this POS!!!!

...Dale


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

I hate my 8300HD DVR too and am counting the days until I am able to buy an S3. I have had to use a SA 8300HD DVR for almost a year now after I bought my HDTV. I need to wait a month or so until I finish paying off my HDTV.


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## arkham (Sep 28, 2006)

I'm a hater, too. How many times have I thought that I would like to have the source code to the SA8300, so I can spend about 10 MINUTES to fix 90% of the problems. The useability of the box is unexcusable. I can't believe I have an HD recorder which has no more functionality than a VCR!

When the Series 3 is verified by me to work with my local cable companies cable cards, I will be spending the money.


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

arkham said:


> I'm a hater, too. How many times have I thought that I would like to have the source code to the SA8300, so I can spend about 10 MINUTES to fix 90% of the problems. The usability of the box is inexcusable. I can't believe I have an HD recorder which has no more functionality than a VCR!
> 
> When the Series 3 is verified by me to work with my local cable companies cable cards, I will be spending the money.


+10000

As a coder myself, I can't believe how poorly this box was slapped together.

If you follow the 8300 threads elsewhere, you'd see why the cableco's are gunshy about rolling out new versions of the code and leaving us in the stone age. Each new version they get has significant bugs. It seems the SA coders can't fix one thing without introducing bugs elsewhere. Either #1) the code is incredibility sophisticated and complicated, or #2) they're just a bunch of monkeys with keyboards. I'm going with #2.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Dajad said:


> It appears the forum owners have disabled the ability to search the archives here. I have posted long reviews/comparissons of this box and the TiVo siting all of the deficiencies of this box. Others have as well. Unfortuantely they all seem to have dropped into the unsearchable archives. ARgh!!!


Google may be able to help there. While they've configured the archives to static locked pages, unsearchable by the forum software, it appears the pages are at least external search engine friendly:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site:tivocommunity.com++dajad++8300&btnG=Google+Search

If you try changing the search terms around a bit, you can probably come up with what you're looking for.

Cheers,
Cassidy


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## bferrell (Jun 22, 2005)

OH MY GOD, I hated that damn thing too, doubtless sent here directly from the gates of hell. My favorite feature, was this little number...

Both tuners are recording *the same show*, one in SD and one in HD. I stop the SD recording (and it leaves the recorded fragment, as though I'd EVER want to watch that - didn't I just CANCEL IT?), change the channel to what I WANTED to watch live - and if you decide to delete that fragment - it decides HEY - I'VE GOT A FREE TUNER, I'll go and record SOMETHING OTHER REPEAT, and annoy this man hugely by taking away the tuner HE JUST FREED UP, and WITHOUT ASKING if it was OK. Completely braindead. The guys that wrote that software clearly didn't live with one of these things for even a few weeks. Turd doesn't do it justice.

Now I have two shiny new S3s. Living the dream.....

Brett


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## jmace57 (Nov 30, 2002)

Me too
Me three
Me four
Me five
...
Me infinity

Jim


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

For some clues as to what software is running on your box, see my sig.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

FYI: I was talking about the SARA software


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## cbordman (May 14, 2001)

My 8300 doesn't have any of those problems. It even has a season pass manager.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

cbordman said:


> My 8300 doesn't have any of those problems. It even has a season pass manager.


Interesting. My 8300HD with Sara doesn't have a SP manager. I have a DVR List and a list of Scheduled Recordings, and in that list, I can't even prioritize the scheduled recordings.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

drew2k said:


> Interesting. My 8300HD with Sara doesn't have a SP manager. I have a DVR List and a list of Scheduled Recordings, and in that list, I can't even prioritize the scheduled recordings.


Well, it's not surprising there are differences given SARA is from Scientific Atlanta whereas cbordman's unit is running software from Aptiv Digital formerly Pioneer Digital Technologies http://www.pioneerdigital.com/passportecho/.


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## WO312 (Jan 24, 2003)

cbordman said:


> My 8300 doesn't have any of those problems. It even has a season pass manager.


Same here . I have 3 SA Tivos and 3 DirecTivos (including an HR10-250), but for $5/month I decided to try the SA 8300HD with Passport Echo. I have been very impressed with it - contrary to what I read on these forums. No problems whatsoever. I won't be giving up any of my Tivos, but it's great to have an extra HD recorder for $5/month.

It is annoying to only have 7 days of guide data, but I only use it for season passes and special recordings anyway.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

I wonder how many calls and pleas to Cablevision it would take to get them to switch from Sara to Passport?


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

I must agree with everything except for the bugs. Luckily, I haven't had any problems with my two SA DVRs, but the software limitations are really annoying, to say the least.

I really hate my SA83000, but technically it does what I ask it, so I can't justify $1600 for two S3's, without any savings monthly (would be $19.90 per month for me, either way), and without being able to much more than the SA boxes.

So for now, I will "suffer" with my cable DVRs as I have for the past 2 or so years.


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

cwoody222 said:


> Oh yes! The 'watching while recording' is what prompted my original post.
> 
> We were watching Jericho while it was recording. When Justice began recording suddenly - without warning - Jericho changed to whatever was currently on CBS. Huh?
> 
> ...


Welcome to the "Kick to Live" bug! Enjoy your stay....

First things first. Try to remember the 8300 is not a TiVo. Do not try to use it like a TiVo, or you will quickly become frustrated. This includes expecting real conflict management, watching something while it's being recorded, and intelligent series recordings.

That said, the "kick to live" bug is a well known "feature" of this lovely box. When you're watching something that's currently recording, the box will kick you out of watching that recording and start showing live TV when the recording has completed. Logical ? No. Frustrating ? YES!

There are a couple of workarounds, but no real solutions. First is to not watch something while it's recording. Second, it to start watching it, hit "stop" (careful not to see what's on screen), and schedule the box to record the rest of the show that you wanted to watch. Extremely ugly, and not very convenient for sports (don't wanna see the score halfway through, do we?).

Yes, this box sucks hard....


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## rich (Mar 18, 2002)

I hate the SA8300 too. Another point: if it somehow manages to try to schedule more than two shows to record at once, it will not give any indication of this until it's time to start recording. It will then pop up a dialog box and ask which of them you'd like to cancel. If you're not sitting there watching it at the time, too bad ... it won't record any of them!


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Last night we started to watch Jericho while it was recording. Started around 8:02 or so. Although the unit continue to record (red light was on), it refused to let us FF past the 8:06 mark. We could "play from current location" and it would jump us to "live" but that was it.

I forgot to check whether the full hour recording was saved and playable after 9pm.


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## cbordman (May 14, 2001)

rich said:


> I hate the SA8300 too. Another point: if it somehow manages to try to schedule more than two shows to record at once, it will not give any indication of this until it's time to start recording. It will then pop up a dialog box and ask which of them you'd like to cancel. If you're not sitting there watching it at the time, too bad ... it won't record any of them!


Sounds like another software issue, not an 8300 issue. The PassPort software asks immediately which program you would like to cancel.


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## Madhatter27 (Dec 5, 2005)

I like pissing off the cable co. when I have to have my 83000 replaced every 2 months because the hard drive fails. Ask them next time "So got Tivo boxs yet?" Time Warner dont like that


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## rich (Mar 18, 2002)

cbordman said:


> Sounds like another software issue, not an 8300 issue. The PassPort software asks immediately which program you would like to cancel.


Well, yes, it does ask immediately if you try to schedule a third program from the Guide. But let's say you schedule some automatic recordings for "all occurrences" and then three such shows end up being on at the same time. It won't let you know anything about that situation until it's time to record them.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Here's another...

My friend with the SA box lost his cable signal the other day. Not only could he obviously not watch live TV he also couldn't access any of the hours of shows he had previously recorded!

How stupid!

I had also lost my cable but I was able to enjoy all the shows currently sitting on my TiVo!


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## WO312 (Jan 24, 2003)

cwoody222 said:


> Here's another...
> 
> My friend with the SA box lost his cable signal the other day. Not only could he obviously not watch live TV he also couldn't access any of the hours of shows he had previously recorded!
> 
> ...


Very interesting.

I just tried an experiment with my Passport 8300. I unplugged the cable and turned on the TV. As expected, no picture, but I AM able to access and play my recordings.

Just shows you that there is good software and bad software. Hardware is not always to blame.


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

dbtom said:


> You are dead-on with your gripes about the 8300. I was all set to swap it for an S3, but then I was disappointed with the limitations of the S3.
> 
> Instead, I spent $250 and added a 500GB HD eSata drive to the 8300 for a total of 750GB in recording space. Now most of my problems with the 8300 have gone away. My biggest problem was that stuff seemed to just disappear. Now I have a lot more room and I can deal with most of the problems.
> 
> ...


Which software (SARA or Passport) and version do you have? I have Passport, I've been thinking of adding an external eSATA drive, not sure if it will work. My 8300 has been perfoming well, would love more space.


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## WO312 (Jan 24, 2003)

skanter said:


> Which software (SARA or Passport) and version do you have? I have Passport, I've been thinking of adding an external eSATA drive, not sure if it will work. My 8300 has been perfoming well, would love more space.


I would think the best thing to do would be to call your cable provider and ask if they support the external storage.

Assuming you get a knowledgable CSR.


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

WO312 said:


> I would think the best thing to do would be to call your cable provider and ask if they support the external storage.
> 
> Assuming you get a knowledgable CSR.


Are you serious?

Have you ever called your local cable CSR?


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

skanter said:


> Which software (SARA or Passport) and version do you have? I have Passport, I've been thinking of adding an external eSATA drive, not sure if it will work.


Passport users have started reporting functional (kindof) eSATA. You have to have a recent enough version of Passport ... and there are a couple little 'quirks' with certain trick-play features with the external hard drive attached.

See the AVS thread for more details:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559


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## glassdude007 (Oct 16, 2006)

what is the 8300???? is it a tvo product ???? ive got the series 2 tivo dvr and it works fine 
sounds to me like its suposed too be the latest and greatest but is a piece of poop.. ?????


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

glassdude007 said:


> what is the 8300???? is it a tvo product ???? ive got the series 2 tivo dvr and it works fine
> sounds to me like its suposed too be the latest and greatest but is a piece of poop.. ?????


Browse. Search. Read. 

The SA 8300 is a Scientific Atlanta manufactured, cable Company provided HD DVR. NOT a TiVo. Folks here are discussing how much worse it is than the TiVo Series 3 HD DVR.


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

dt_dc said:


> Passport users have started reporting functional (kindof) eSATA. You have to have a recent enough version of Passport ... and there are a couple little 'quirks' with certain trick-play features with the external hard drive attached.
> 
> See the AVS thread for more details:
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559


Thanks... I had read some AVS threads about this but read nothing definitive about it working with Passport. It sounds like its still kind of quirky.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

For those of you that hate the 8300 do you hate just the software or the hardware too? I'm asking because eventually Tivo will probably offer a software upgrade for the 8300 just as they are about to do with the moto boxes. If they do will the 8300 still be unusable?


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

The only purely-hardware related comment I could make is that it's a little loud. 

After that, for me, it becomes very hard to tell where the hardware/software distinction is made. Does the 8300 software suck purely because the programmers were (barely) trained monkeys, or because they had to work around a very limited CPU ? Do the hardware operations interfere with the software operations, thus creating more headaches for said monkeys to work around ? Hard to draw the line...

If you look at the box, it's got all the connectivity you could want. Whether or not its actually capable of being made functional is an entirely different story.

Just as long as TiVo doesn't make us use those damn A,B,C buttons, I'll be happy!


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

HiDefGator said:


> I'm asking because eventually Tivo will probably offer a software upgrade for the 8300 just as they are about to do with the moto boxes.


Huh? What does Tivo have to do with the SA8300HD hardware?


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

skanter said:


> Huh? What does Tivo have to do with the SA8300HD hardware?


Rumor mill has it that after TiVo is done porting their software to the Motorola 64XX/34XX platforms, that they're going to do the same for the SA platforms.


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

PaulS said:


> Rumor mill has it that after TiVo is done porting their software to the Motorola 64XX/34XX platforms, that they're going to do the same for the SA platforms.


Cool! That could save me $800 -- if it works! 

CNET review of SA8300HD. I pretty much agree with the reviewer:

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6209060-1.html


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## tgr131 (May 23, 2001)

Greetings,

I've had an SA8300HD since Feb. TWCSC released a patch to SARA that fixed the kick to live feature, and allows you to start watching show currently being recorded from the beginning. Also, I have an eSATA drive, and a huge amount of space now.

I was planning to ditch my DTivo's, and by some S2's, and hang on to the 8300 for HD. I had several shows mysteriously disappear, and now I'm hanging on to the DTivos as backups.

My main complaint is the lack of wishlists. I have a hard time finding anything on their guide.

David


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

PaulS said:


> Rumor mill has it that after TiVo is done porting their software to the Motorola 64XX/34XX platforms, that they're going to do the same for the SA platforms.


Do you think TWC and others who use SA8300HD will offer Tivo software instead of theirs, or as an additional option?


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

skanter said:


> Do you think TWC and others who use SA8300HD will offer Tivo software instead of theirs, or as an additional option?


Time Warner is about to roll out their own DVR software called "Navigator". They wrote it themselves (or paid someone to write it for them), and I believe is slated to replace both PassPort and SARA across their systems. I have no idea what their plans are involving TiVo, or if there are any such plans at all.

NAVIGATOR WEB SITE

The only deals TiVo has in place for cable systems right now are Comcast and Cox.


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

PaulS said:


> Time Warner is about to roll out their own DVR software called "Navigator". They wrote it themselves (or paid someone to write it for them), and I believe is slated to replace both PassPort and SARA across their systems. I have no idea what their plans are involving TiVo, or if there are any such plans at all.
> 
> NAVIGATOR WEB SITE
> 
> The only deals TiVo has in place for cable systems right now are Comcast and Cox.


Except for a few quibbles, I find that Passport software is acceptable, if not quite as good as Tivo's. It's the reliability factor that I'm concerned about, although I think it the heavy I/O of recording two HD programs that seeems to make it blink.
Extra storage over SATA, when reliably implemented, could solve the problems.

I'll be interested to see the new software.


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

I have very few rules... 

One of them is the PVR should not cost more than the TV.
Another one avoid monthly usage charges.

So buying something for $800 then paying $12 a month to use it does not make sense to me. That is why I use MCE with OTA HD and a analog tuner for D*TV


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## dbtom (Feb 14, 2002)

I could be wrong, but that Navigator software looks just like Passport to me except re-branded. I've used the SARA and Passport systems and Passport is definitely the better UI. 

But SARA seems to have better success with upgrades. To answer a question long ago, I did my upgrade on a SARA system. Since I did the upgrade I have not had any problems with disappearing recordings, partial recordings, etc.. I think those problems may be a symptom of too little disk space. That said, people on the AVS Forums have had other problems after upgrades, so I may just be lucky. 

If they could add a Tivo UI on top of the SA8300HD it would be awesome. I hadn't heard that rumour.


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## rich (Mar 18, 2002)

Add another gripe: after the time change this past weekend, all of my "record all programs on this channel in this time slot" scheduled recordings were off by an hour.


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

dbtom said:


> I could be wrong, but that Navigator software looks just like Passport to me except re-branded. I've used the SARA and Passport systems and Passport is definitely the better UI.
> 
> But SARA seems to have better success with upgrades. To answer a question long ago, I did my upgrade on a SARA system. Since I did the upgrade I have not had any problems with disappearing recordings, partial recordings, etc.. I think those problems may be a symptom of too little disk space. That said, people on the AVS Forums have had other problems after upgrades, so I may just be lucky.
> 
> If they could add a Tivo UI on top of the SA8300HD it would be awesome. I hadn't heard that rumour.


My SA8300HD has been performing flawlessly since I stopped recording 7-hr tennis during the US open, making me think that performance problems had to do with drive being almost filled to capacity. If adding eSATA drive works with Passport, I could live with this box and skip $800 S3 altogether (unless price comes way down).


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## Dajad (Oct 7, 1999)

AS usual my 8300 HD recorded House in slices on Tuesday and chose not to record Lost at all last night. The unit is almost empty. I checked in advance to be sure it was scheduled for recording. But, no, it decided to take the night off instead.

Thank God my warranty replacement S3 arrived today! Let's hope it works! I'm just doing Guided Setup now.

...Dale


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

rich said:


> Add another gripe: after the time change this past weekend, all of my "record all programs on this channel in this time slot" scheduled recordings were off by an hour.


Hmmm... Interesting. Fortunately, I haven't been bitten by that bug.

However, to compensate, my 8300 has decided to quietly not record multiple series that were previously recording (as well as can be expected with this POS). BSG, Heroes, Gilmore Girls, and so on... Now I have to babysit this box *EVEN MORE* just to make sure it's doing what's it's supposed to. POS POS POS POS!


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## dansee (Oct 23, 2003)

skanter said:


> My SA8300HD has been performing flawlessly since I stopped recording 7-hr tennis during the US open, making me think that performance problems had to do with drive being almost filled to capacity. If adding eSATA drive works with Passport, I could live with this box and skip $800 S3 altogether (unless price comes way down).


Must say that, in spite of being rather primitive compared to TiVo in terms of software, I have no complaints about my TW SA8300. And it has one feature that I very much enjoy compared to my TiVos... it's _quiet_.

Will probably do the eSATA experiment myself, soon. Extra storage would solve most of my issues, even if a few trick play features flake-out.


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

dansee said:


> Must say that, in spite of being rather primitive compared to TiVo in terms of software, I have no complaints about my TW SA8300. And it has one feature that I very much enjoy compared to my TiVos... it's _quiet_.
> 
> Will probably do the eSATA experiment myself, soon. Extra storage would solve most of my issues, even if a few trick play features flake-out.


Dansee, which software do you have, Passport or SARA? Version?

Despite many deficiencies compared to Tivo, the 8300 is much faster than Tivo when navigating. It's search feature improves on Tivo's, in that only the letters that will make words that appear in guide's titles appear, making spelling out titles incredibly quick. Mine has been operating flawlessly, no lost programs or pieces of programs. Recordings are lossless, identical to original HD feed.

Definitely want to increase storage through eSATA. Have you been following threads on AVS to decide on hardware for eSATA?


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## dansee (Oct 23, 2003)

skanter said:


> Dansee, which software do you have, Passport or SARA? Version?
> 
> Despite many deficiencies compared to Tivo, the 8300 is much faster than Tivo when navigating. It's search feature improves on Tivo's, in that only the letters that will make words that appear in guide's titles appear, making spelling out titles incredibly quick. Mine has been operating flawlessly, no lost programs or pieces of programs. Recordings are lossless, identical to original HD feed.
> 
> Definitely want to increase storage through eSATA. Have you been following threads on AVS to decide on hardware for eSATA?


Yes, I've been following the AVS thread. I have Passport.

And, yes, I also find that the 8300 does some things BETTER than TiVo. Search is one of them... especially if you hit something halfway through, and want to find a later showing.

Ironically, about 12 hours after my post, the hard drive in my 8300 started to flake-out (about 20 months old). Had to hard boot to get recorded things to play.

Now... that would sound awful, except for this one little thing: The "fix" involved unplugging everything, driving 5 minutes to the Time Warner kiosk, and asking for a new one (which took about 30 seconds). 15 minutes, and I walked-out with a shiny, brand new, box.

There's something to be said for that... and the fact that it only costs me 10 bucks a month.


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

dansee said:


> Yes, I've been following the AVS thread. I have Passport.
> 
> And, yes, I also find that the 8300 does some things BETTER than TiVo. Search is one of them... especially if you hit something halfway through, and want to find a later showing.
> 
> ...


Yep -- not a bad deal. Do you know what version you have? (on diagnostic menu).

Let me know what eSATA hardware you get -- I'm researching it all myself as well.
Seems like 320GB drives are most reliable, and good price point.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

eSATA? Get the Seagate 7200.10 320GB from newegg, with the discounted combo deal on the black or silver Rosewill eSATA enclosure. That's what I bought in prep. for an S3 upgrade when they permit external drive addons.

VERY quiet, decent aluminium, non-noisy fan that can be turned off (if the fins are dissipating enough heat). And the drive ... FAST!

eSATA cable included, and a patch panel for the PC to 'exprt' an internal SATA port to the outside as eSATA (which is how I'm using mine now)


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## dansee (Oct 23, 2003)

skanter said:


> Yep -- not a bad deal. Do you know what version you have? (on diagnostic menu).
> 
> Let me know what eSATA hardware you get -- I'm researching it all myself as well.
> Seems like 320GB drives are most reliable, and good price point.


ResApp: Passport Echo 2.5.066

OS: PowerTV 6.14.74.1sp

I was looking at the 320GB drives myself, or a 500GB. More than enough for my needs.


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

ashu said:


> eSATA? Get the Seagate 7200.10 320GB from newegg, with the discounted combo deal on the black or silver Rosewill eSATA enclosure. That's what I bought in prep. for an S3 upgrade when they permit external drive addons.
> 
> VERY quiet, decent aluminium, non-noisy fan that can be turned off (if the fins are dissipating enough heat). And the drive ... FAST!
> 
> eSATA cable included, and a patch panel for the PC to 'exprt' an internal SATA port to the outside as eSATA (which is how I'm using mine now)


Sounds good -- thanks!


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

dansee said:


> ResApp: Passport Echo 2.5.066
> 
> OS: PowerTV 6.14.74.1sp
> 
> I was looking at the 320GB drives myself, or a 500GB. More than enough for my needs.


Same v. as mine. Let me know if you decide on a specific drive.


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

ashu said:


> eSATA? Get the Seagate 7200.10 320GB from newegg, with the discounted combo deal on the black or silver Rosewill eSATA enclosure. That's what I bought in prep. for an S3 upgrade when they permit external drive addons.
> 
> VERY quiet, decent aluminium, non-noisy fan that can be turned off (if the fins are dissipating enough heat). And the drive ... FAST!
> 
> eSATA cable included, and a patch panel for the PC to 'exprt' an internal SATA port to the outside as eSATA (which is how I'm using mine now)


Done! Orderd today.

Rosewill RX343-S SLV 3.5" eSATA and USB 2.0 External Enclosure
Seagate Barracuda ST3320620AS 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA Drive
Quality Cables SS-1ESES eSATA to eSATA Cable (1m - 3ft.)

$128. w/delivery.

Hope it works!


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

How do you find the software version the SA Box is using?


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

Johncv said:


> How do you find the software version the SA Box is using?


Press and hold SELECT and INFO on the front of the box until you get the diagnostics screen. Scroll down with arrow buttons until you reach software version. Check out all the other info as well.

Turn power off and on to get out of diagnostics.

I'm going by memory. If it doesn't work, google it...


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## dansee (Oct 23, 2003)

Johncv said:


> How do you find the software version the SA Box is using?


Also, on my box, at least, I can just tune to channel 611 "Diagnostics and Information"


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

dansee said:


> Also, on my box, at least, I can just tune to channel 611 "Diagnostics and Information"


I think there might be a channel like that on mine, but it's not 611 and i don't know which one.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

Go into Diagnostic Mode. There are two ways to enter the Diagnostic Mode:

Press and hold the Select button on the front of the unit until the Mail light starts to flash, then press the INFO button.

Press and hold the Pause button on the remote until the Mail light starts to flash (around 10-15 seconds), then press the Page Up (-) button.

Scroll through the pages until you see SARA or PASSPORT listed. If you see SARA, then your box is compatible!
Known to work with Cox Cable, Cablevision, Time Warner cable, Comcast, WOW Cable, Brighthouse Cable & Adelphia in most areas.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

dbtom said:


> I could be wrong, but that Navigator software looks just like Passport to me except re-branded. I've used the SARA and Passport systems and Passport is definitely the better UI.
> 
> But SARA seems to have better success with upgrades. To answer a question long ago, I did my upgrade on a SARA system. Since I did the upgrade I have not had any problems with disappearing recordings, partial recordings, etc.. I think those problems may be a symptom of too little disk space. That said, people on the AVS Forums have had other problems after upgrades, so I may just be lucky.
> 
> If they could add a Tivo UI on top of the SA8300HD it would be awesome. I hadn't heard that rumour.


I use passport Echo on a 6412 and it looks nothing like the navigator interface.

ajwees41


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

Rosewill RX343-S SLV 3.5" eSATA and USB 2.0 External Enclosure
Seagate Barracuda ST3320620AS 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA Drive
Quality Cables SS-1ESES eSATA to eSATA Cable (1m - 3ft.)

Just installed this combo (that Ashu and AVS recommended) from Newegg and it was a snap -- took about 10 minutes. I now have 426.2 GB capacity -- about 60-70 hrs. HD content! The black aluminum case is handsome, the drive is silent and the fan is quiet as well, but can be turned off if needed. Buffer was lost, as expected, but I now can record HD movies to my heart's content. Great deal, also, for $128 delivered.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Glad the Rosewill suggestion worked out for you. With the fan on, it should be fine anywhere ... bu if you plan to leave it off, make sure it's well-ventilated. 

(I'm not familiar with SA upgrades) You lost your Live playback buffer?  And that is acceptable to you?


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

ashu said:


> Glad the Rosewill suggestion worked out for you. With the fan on, it should be fine anywhere ... bu if you plan to leave it off, make sure it's well-ventilated.
> 
> (I'm not familiar with SA upgrades) You lost your Live playback buffer?  And that is acceptable to you?


Unit is quiet enough, even with fan on. Had to put a piece of tape over the horrible blue light, though.

It seems that SA8300HD with Passport software loses buffer when writing to SATA drive, but not with SARA software. This is a minor inconvenience, and certainly worth it in exchange for having 60 instead of 20 hours HD capacity. A simple workaround is just to press record when watching a live program, then you have the same buffer as before. Also, I'm sure this will be fixed in future software updates.

Thanks for recommending this drive/Rosewill. So far, it's running perfectly. I'll report back after it's got a few weeks of HD testing.


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## Character Zero (Oct 30, 2006)

I ordered that Seagate drive with the Kingwin enclosure, no fan but its going to be well ventilated. A friend of mine has a 250 gb in a fanless enclosure so the 320 shouldn't put off anymore heat. Its good to hear it works as I have read that drives over 300 seem to cause problems. I assumed 320 wouldn't be too much over.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

The 320 likely puts out less heat ... denser (perpendicular) bits mean less seek distances and requirements for the head, less platters/surfaces and whatnot.

The 300GB Seagate 7200.9 in my Humax is LOUDER than my PC-connected 320GB 7200.10!


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

skanter said:


> Rosewill RX343-S SLV 3.5" eSATA and USB 2.0 External Enclosure
> Seagate Barracuda ST3320620AS 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA Drive
> Quality Cables SS-1ESES eSATA to eSATA Cable (1m - 3ft.)
> 
> Just installed this combo (that Ashu and AVS recommended) from Newegg and it was a snap -- took about 10 minutes. I now have 426.2 GB capacity -- about 60-70 hrs. HD content! The black aluminum case is handsome, the drive is silent and the fan is quiet as well, but can be turned off if needed. Buffer was lost, as expected, but I now can record HD movies to my heart's content. Great deal, also, for $128 delivered.


Did the same thing to my SA Box, my order came in one day, Newegg must be in CA.
The SA Box seem to work better now that it has more room. Don't understand how a company like SA can be so cheap and put in a 120GB HD and then divide that into two petitions, one for the OS the rest for programs. Just hope the TiVo upgrade dose not prevent the use of an external drive.


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

Johncv said:


> Did the same thing to my SA Box, my order came in one day, Newegg must be in CA.
> The SA Box seem to work better now that it has more room. Don't understand how a company like SA can be so cheap and put in a 120GB HD and then divide that into two petitions, one for the OS the rest for programs. Just hope the TiVo upgrade dose not prevent the use of an external drive.


Which Tivo upgrade do you mean, S3? As of now, the eSATA port is not implemented.

My SA8300 is working perfectly now that eSATA drive is there. It's great to see no more little hourglasses! I think most problems with 8300 have to do with too little HD space.


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

Thanks for the tip about the low space difficulties.
I just got a 8300 yesterday and I must say it's not been easy to deal with. My husband asked why I still have my S2 hooked up. I gave him the 8300 remote & let him play a while, he now understands. 

Also thanks for the suggestion to double up on recordings, DVR & TIVO. I had thought to delete my SP's from my tivo however I'd be really pissed if I missed one of my fav. shows due to the 8300 wigging out.


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

alyssa said:


> Thanks for the tip about the low space difficulties.
> I just got a 8300 yesterday and I must say it's not been easy to deal with. My husband asked why I still have my S2 hooked up. I gave him the 8300 remote & let him play a while, he now understands.
> 
> Also thanks for the suggestion to double up on recordings, DVR & TIVO. I had thought to delete my SP's from my tivo however I'd be really pissed if I missed one of my fav. shows due to the 8300 wigging out.


I still have S2 hooked up with second cable box for SD and backup, use SA8300 for HD only. Still haven't decided on S3 solution, SA8300, or some combo.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

All this effort with a BACKUP TiVo, with a subscription. Just get that S3 already, folks ... you KNOW you want to 

Soon enough (hopefully, fingers crossed quite optimisticall) you'll even be able to use the eSATA setup with the S3  And forget the SA-abomination forever!


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

It's the lack of eSATA, MRV, & $$$. Once all those issues are solved I will have a shiney S3 gracing my brand spanking new HD TV  . 

But till then a 8300 HD recorder will have to do


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

ashu said:


> All this effort with a BACKUP TiVo, with a subscription. Just get that S3 already, folks ... you KNOW you want to
> 
> Soon enough (hopefully, fingers crossed quite optimisticall) you'll even be able to use the eSATA setup with the S3  And forget the SA-abomination forever!


When the S3 has eSATA, TTG, HMO (with pics in HD), and a much lower price, I'll think about it. Right now the free SA8300 with S2 is better.


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## RandyDtg (Apr 17, 2005)

I'll just add, we have had a TiVo S2 for three years, I had my SA8300 HD for ten months, with my series 2 Tivo next to it. It is hard to believe the cable decision makers can't do better or insist on better.

I have now had my TiVo S3 for a few weeks, I got the 750 Gig drive in it, paradise and well worth the cost, you only live once. I put the TiVo S3 as one thousand times better than the SA8300 HD. I can not tell you how glad I am with the S3. The list of SA problems above, made me laugh, yup, I saw every one of them, and several more too. I even think my TiVo's HD picture quality is better too. I've (TiVo) found shows to watch that I never would have with the SA. The TiVo wishlist works with all of the cable channels, digital, HiDef, and Premium, what a great thing!!! My SA on several occasions listed three things to be recorded at the same time, like when a show would start to air again after something had been put in that time slot.

It's like the early days before PC Windows, when the apple Macintosh was the best, while PC's had only DOS. I hope TiVo will be wiser than the Mac people.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

skanter said:


> Which Tivo upgrade do you mean, S3? As of now, the eSATA port is not implemented.
> 
> My SA8300 is working perfectly now that eSATA drive is there. It's great to see no more little hourglasses! I think most problems with 8300 have to do with too little HD space.


I am referring to the to the TiVo upgrade which will be made available by Cox and Comcast sometime next year for Moto and SA DVR boxes.


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

Johncv said:


> I am referring to the to the TiVo upgrade which will be made available by Cox and Comcast sometime next year for Moto and SA DVR boxes.


Oh. I don't think that's relevant for me with Time Warner cable.


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

Does S3 currently support HMO?


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

I don't believe it currenly does- at some point it will but not now.


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## Character Zero (Oct 30, 2006)

I installed my 320 barracuda drive a couple of days ago. I found it worked better with the jumper on. I was getting a problem where I couldn't record 2 HD feeds and then try to watch an HD feed (recorded or one of the ones in progress by going through the List). the box would freeze and then reboot. Last night I had a problem where it only recorded 40 mins of an hour long show. Thankfully I was only timeshifting and I was almost caught up. The weird thing is, it was like the buffer just stopped. If I paused the live feed it would go back to the 40mins end of the buffer. If it started a new recording it would start back and hour in the buffer. I was able to record a show that was after that program but still it was frustrating to know if I was just recording I would have lost the last 20 mins. With this flaky software its hard to know if its the external drive (which works good now, I can watch 1 feed and record 2) or if its the software. I am leaning towards the software.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Ha - don't blame the drive when it is more likely the abomination it is connected to


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## Character Zero (Oct 30, 2006)

Exactly, especially since the user has no direct control over the drive. It would be nice to at least have an option that let the box prompt you to decide what drive to record to. Then you could actually do some real testing and find the root of the problem. I would hate to have to go bacj to SD Tivo. I have an HD TV and want to get the most out of it, but my S2 Tivo is on standby. I wish I could get the S3 but I can;t afford it right now, especially with my cable co.'s non-understanding of cablecard.


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## Tivoli (Jan 24, 2002)

I would not put up with that POS. I'd send it back in an instance. Well if I had it in the first place. I am a very happy camper with my TiVo Series 3


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