# ATSC antenna confusion



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I'm looking at ATSC antennas for the S3, but I don't want to put something on my roof (as I'm in a townhouse I'm not even sure if I can do so).

I went to http://www.antennaweb.org put in my address and got the following depending on whether or not I put there is a tall structure near me. There is a rather large microwave communications (example) tower about 1000 feet away from my house at around compass point 240 (which is not the direction of the stations). There are also several much larger high voltage power line towers (example) a few thousand feet farther away then the tower (in the same direction) I'm not sure if this will affect anything or not.

*Without tower (click image for larger image)*


*With tower (click image for larger image)*


The antenna types are as follows:
Yellow
Green
Red
Violet

What is confusing me is that a few of the Red listings (which require a directional antenna) are in the exact same location (distance and direction wise) as the green or yellow ones (which require a unidirectional antenna).
Why exactly is this?

In any case, based on this info and assuming I don't care about WTVE-DT, would I be able to use an indoor antenna at the distance above and if so can anyone recommend a brand?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Perhaps because of different ERPs? That would be my only guess on why the different antenna types. But antennaweb.org has been know to be flakey in its recommendations.

Given you're so close to the towers, I would think the Zenith Silver Sensor would work well for you or a Rat Shack indoor antenna.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Thanks for the response. 
Both antennas say they are only for UHF channels. I'm assuming that would mean I'd need a separate antenna for NBC, ABC, CBS and WHYY-DT (PBS)?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

morac said:


> Thanks for the response.
> Both antennas say they are only for UHF channels. I'm assuming that would mean I'd need a separate antenna for NBC, ABC, CBS and WHYY-DT (PBS)?


They all look UHF to me. Check again closely...it's the frequency assignment that you're interested in, not the channel. All of my major networks are 4.1, 6.1, 8.1 and 18.1. But the first three have frequency assignments of 58.1, 56.1 and 38.1. I use a UHF only, and they come in like champs.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

morac said:


> I'm looking at ATSC antennas for the S3, but I don't want to put something on my roof (as I'm in a townhouse I'm not even sure if I can do so).


1) No such thing as an ATSC antenna. A TV antenna is the same for NTSC or ATSC, just VHF and UHF.

2) You could put it in your attic? I've had GREAT success with that.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> They all look UHF to me. Check again closely...it's the frequency assignment that you're interested in, not the channel. All of my major networks are 4.1, 6.1, 8.1 and 18.1. But the first three have frequency assignments of 58.1, 56.1 and 38.1. I use a UHF only, and they come in like champs.


Duh, I just noticed the little UHF text on the left of all the channels so I guess they are all UHF. 

That's good since UHF signals can travel farther than VHF freqs without degrading.

I also found this site which doesn't recommend an indoor antenna for any station over 15 miles away. I guess I'll just have to see.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

morac said:


> Duh, I just noticed the little UHF text on the left of all the channels so I guess they are all UHF.
> 
> That's good since UHF signals can travel farther than VHF freqs without degrading.
> 
> I also found this site which doesn't recommend an indoor antenna for any station over 15 miles away. I guess I'll just have to see.


Yeah, but remember, they're trying to sell antennas


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

antennae!


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## Jazhuis (Aug 30, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> Yeah, but remember, they're trying to sell antennas


Isn't that the truth. Before going the whole fancy antenna route, I bought a $7 Walmart Special set of rabbit ears just to see what I could get...and can pick up every station in my town. Admittedly, they're a bit closer, than your list (10-15 miles), but still.

I'd personally start with the cheapest antenna you can find, and see what you can get with that. Then start thinking about stepping up to something more if necessary.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

morac said:


> I don't want to put something on my roof (as I'm in a townhouse I'm not even sure if I can do so).


You can, if your roof is your own. FCC regs don't allow your HOA to stop you. Putting the antenna outside is much better if you can manage it. I'm in a townhouse and the antenna is out on the back deck.


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

Go to amazon.com and order a Terk HDTVi which sells for $18.95. It's similar to the Zenith Silver Sensor. I've used them as far as 30 miles away and they work great. Don't buy any other Terk antenna, the rest of them are junk.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

morac said:


> I also found this site which doesn't recommend an indoor antenna for any station over 15 miles away. I guess I'll just have to see.


 It's bologna. I'm 50+ miles from broadcast towers in Los Angeles and using a cheap ($20) indoor UHF amplified antenna facing out a window I pick up many channels very reliably.


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

morac said:


> What is confusing me is that a few of the Red listings (which require a directional antenna) are in the exact same location (distance and direction wise) as the green or yellow ones (which require a unidirectional antenna).
> Why exactly is this?


I believe transmitter strength also comes into play. I'm in suburban Philly, about 9 miles from the towers, and have a very similar list of stations ;-)

FOX 29 is probably the hardest to grab, next to PBS 12 (which I can't get reliably). I have a Zenith Silver Sensor hanging in my window, facing the towers, with a signal amp hooked up. I do well on most of those stations though 29 is a bit flakey sometimes.

I decided to start with the cheap antenna, since it was cheap and easily worked with inside the house. Maybe I'll upgrade; haven't decided yet.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

TydalForce said:


> I believe transmitter strength also comes into play...


That's what I mean in the above post...


Bierboy said:


> Perhaps because of different ERPs?...


ERP is Effective Radiated Power.


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## BruceShultes (Oct 2, 2006)

You can probably get much better antenna recommendations on AVS forum. I got much better information by going to my local forum with the link from AVS forum. 

The information on antennaweb.org is conservative and often has out of date information. 

In my case, it showed the direction of my stations all at different directions even though all the local stations have been on a community tower for over two years.


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

Ah that makes sense. I knew ERP as "Enterprise Resource Planning", and thought "gee, that doesn't make sense in this thread...." lol

I wish antennaweb offered up those figures too in their chart. They might prove useful (or at least interesting)


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

TydalForce said:


> Ah that makes sense. I knew ERP as "Enterprise Resource Planning", and thought "gee, that doesn't make sense in this thread...." lol
> 
> I wish antennaweb offered up those figures too in their chart. They might prove useful (or at least interesting)


I used to work in radio (back in the days when a disc jockey had to have third class operators license  ), so that's all that ERP has ever meant to me!


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## T-Shee (Sep 22, 2006)

FWIW - during the "cabling" phase of the S3 setup, I stripped about 3 feet of insulation from a length of coax, exposing the bare copper center conductor and essentially creating a crude antenna. The other end, the "F" connector, was attached to the ANT input. A simple test, I thought, though not likely to prove much. 

I started pulling in about 6 out of 10 OTA digital stations (ATSC), some HD and some SD broadcasts. Amazing. I could even "see" some of old analog NTSC stations, though they were mostly "snow" and largely unusable. 

And this is in NEW YORK CITY, in Manhattan, with steel and brick buildings all around!. I continued to use this crude antenna for another week until my CCs were installed. 

The Series 3 has an excellent ATSC tuner(s), so my advice would be to try something inexpensive first - the sensitivity of the tuners is excellent and you made not need to spend very much to get the stations you want.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

When I got home I found that one microwave tower was actually 2 and they are both huge (larger than I remember). Not sure if Microwaves will interfere with TV broadcasts or not. I know my cable system has frequent glitches around here.


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