# Is Lifetime still worth it?



## jeepguy_1980 (Mar 2, 2008)

I am coming up on the end of my one year commitment and am debating keeping it monthly or upping to a lifetime. I have read a lot of speculation on this board that TiVo is hurting and might not survive much longer. For a lifetime subscription to be worth it, it would have last me at least:

30 months - comparing month to month
37 months - comparing annual
36 months plus $100 - comparing a 3 year subscription.

Based on what I'm reading, I just wonder if an annual subscription would be the best move. I know lifetime is good for resale now, but it's not worth much if TiVo doesn't exist anymore.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Um, who knows the future but I'd go with the lifetime anyway. I anticipate Tivo being a much bigger household name than it already is.



jeepguy_1980 said:


> I am coming up on the end of my one year commitment and am debating keeping it monthly or upping to a lifetime. I have read a lot of speculation on this board that TiVo is hurting and might not survive much longer. For a lifetime subscription to be worth it, it would have last me at least:
> 
> 30 months - comparing month to month
> 37 months - comparing annual
> ...


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

My personal opinion is that, for us, lifetime service is only "worth it" during the first 18-24 months of a product series' lifespan. After that, at least so far, something has come up before the break-even point that would prompt me to buy another DVR, if I hadn't invested in the lifetime service with the previous DVR. Yes, that's even factoring in the ability to transfer lifetime service (especially since sometimes, like last time, they won't allow you to do so if you purchased your lifetime service for the previous series box more recently).


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## FixItPete (Oct 27, 2008)

I got mine from eBay (a person that is known here ) for $265 (after a special between Microsoft. eBay and PayPal_ total. Worth every single cent. @ $399.00 I don't know... depends on how long you think it will last (without breaking).

I *DO* know that units with lifetime sell VERY VERY well on eBay.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

bicker said:


> My personal opinion is that, for us, lifetime service is only "worth it" during the first 18-24 months of a product series' lifespan....


Do you mean 'us' to mean you and your household, all members of these TiVo Forums, or the Supreme Uberviewer? 

My personal opinion is that TiVo's Lifetime Service is worth getting on any TiVo product worth getting. Breakeven, compared with TiVo's other service plans, is around three years plus a potential backend bonus when an old TiVo is disposed of. YMMV!


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

I still have some grandfathered monthly at 6.95 so that makes my personal calculation a little harder.

I think the series 4 with tru2way is the place to look at lifetime. The TiVo HD is great but since my breakeven is 43 months I hope to be on series 4 by then.

as for TiVo inc., they are sitting on enough cash to last 2 years without anything changing. DirectTV is most likely still a positive revenue flow (assuming DirectTV is picking up some oif the R&D bill) and when that unit comes out overall subscriber numbers will go positive again.

for ten years people have predicted the doom of TiVo inc. Yet right now people are sitting around with series 1 on lifetime and in the 6th year of positive return on doing that.


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## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

People have been saying that TiVo is going out of business for the last 5 years or so. If it is your first TiVo then I think lifetime is definitely worth it. If it is an additional TiVo that is eligible for a discount, then it is not as clear cut.


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## jkalnin (Jan 8, 2003)

Lifetime is worth it because, as mentioned above, it is something you can sell in the future. The demise of TiVo has been coming every year for the last 5 years, yet here we are and TiVo hasn't gone anywhere. If you are unsatisfied with TiVo just sell it on ebay, with the lifetime sub you'll get a lot of money for it.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

One factor is how you might be getting your programming in the future. Current tivos don't work with satellite HD. Some systems may be going to an IPTV solution. Those systems might work with an upcoming S4 unit but not with current units. People who might be moving, or switching service in the near future, might want to avoid paying for LS.

Those people who get their TV OTA are great candidates for LS.


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## jeepguy_1980 (Mar 2, 2008)

lew said:


> One factor is how you might be getting your programming in the future. Current tivos don't work with satellite HD. Some systems may be going to an IPTV solution. Those systems might work with an upcoming S4 unit but not with current units. People who might be moving, or switching service in the near future, might want to avoid paying for LS.
> 
> Those people who get their TV OTA are great candidates for LS.


I am in the military, which is one reason I got my TiVo. Every time I move, I get to keep all of my recording and my DVR keeps all of my season passes, etc... Where I'm at now, OTA is definitely an option, but it may not be wherever I go next. I don't need my box to work with OTA, but I would like for it to keep working with cable.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

jeepguy_1980 said:


> I am coming up on the end of my one year commitment and am debating keeping it monthly or upping to a lifetime. I have read a lot of speculation on this board that TiVo is hurting and might not survive much longer. For a lifetime subscription to be worth it, it would have last me at least:
> 
> 30 months - comparing month to month
> 37 months - comparing annual
> ...


I have had lifetime on my s2 for 5 years. i think it was worth it. If it didnt have a life time on it i would not still be using it.

I did have to put a new harddrive in it but it still works fine


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

jeepguy_1980 said:


> I am coming up on the end of my one year commitment and am debating keeping it monthly or upping to a lifetime. I have read a lot of speculation on this board that TiVo is hurting and might not survive much longer. For a lifetime subscription to be worth it, it would have last me at least:
> 
> 30 months - comparing month to month
> 37 months - comparing annual
> ...


Get a lifetime.

You want equity in the box.

When you consider resale cost, the break-even point is not as long as you think.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

jeepguy_1980 said:


> I am in the military, which is one reason I got my TiVo. Every time I move, I get to keep all of my recording and my DVR keeps all of my season passes, etc... Where I'm at now, OTA is definitely an option, but it may not be wherever I go next. I don't need my box to work with OTA, but I would like for it to keep working with cable.


Your next location might have a MDU satellite system. Your next location could have a system that works better with a S4. Your next location might offer a great (bundle) deal on a cable DVR.

I wouldn't buy LS since you're not sure if tivo will work/be the best solution when you move.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Well, depending on what kind of Tivo the OP has and all it might be best to buy a S2 that already has lifetime. The S2 should work no matter where they go (satellite, cable, ota, whatever).



lew said:


> Your next location might have a MDU satellite system. Your next location could have a system that works better with a S4. Your next location might offer a great (bundle) deal on a cable DVR.
> 
> I wouldn't buy LS since you're not sure if tivo will work/be the best solution when you move.


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## darksurtur (Jan 2, 2008)

jeepguy_1980 said:


> I am coming up on the end of my one year commitment and am debating keeping it monthly or upping to a lifetime. I have read a lot of speculation on this board that TiVo is hurting and might not survive much longer. For a lifetime subscription to be worth it, it would have last me at least:
> 
> 30 months - comparing month to month
> 37 months - comparing annual
> ...


Can you wait until mid-January? CES will be over by then, and announcements there may - but probably won't - change the calculus on these decisions. It's what I am planning on doing.


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## jeepguy_1980 (Mar 2, 2008)

magnus said:


> Well, depending on what kind of Tivo the OP has and all it might be best to buy a S2 that already has lifetime. The S2 should work no matter where they go (satellite, cable, ota, whatever).


I have an S3


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Oh, sorry. I see that in the sig now. 

Yep, I think that I would not get the lifetime then only because you might move to a place where satellite is the only option.


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## jeepguy_1980 (Mar 2, 2008)

magnus said:


> Oh, sorry. I see that in the sig now.
> 
> Yep, I think that I would not get the lifetime then only because you might move to a place where satellite is the only option.


I'm not worried about that aspect. I'm rather sure that cable will be an option wherever I go. Even if it's not, everyone seems to think I can get a good price out of selling it.

My question is really based on the longevity of TiVo as a company and the lifespan of the S3.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Ok, then I personally would not worry about either.



jeepguy_1980 said:


> I'm not worried about that aspect. I'm rather sure that cable will be an option wherever I go. Even if it's not, everyone seems to think I can get a good price out of selling it.
> 
> My question is really based on the longevity of TiVo as a company and the lifespan of the S3.


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## drey (Jul 21, 2008)

If anyone needs a good deal on TiVo Lifetime service subscription, send me PM.

-- Andrey


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I got my first Tivo late in '05 and do not regret getting lifetime service for it.
It was well worth it. Still going strong.
As soon as lifetime was offered again recently, I jumped at the chance for a TivoHD. $100 off lifetime with MSD. :up:
I am a happy camper.


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## aanecl (Dec 20, 2008)

I thnk it's still well worth it since you can sell in the future whenver you want to


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

One other factor is the outside possibility that Tivo will offer a lifetime transfer deal again. When the S3 was introduced, Tivo offered a deal to transfer an existing lifetime from an S1 or S2 to the new S3. Who's to say Tivo won't make the same offer when the S4 is introduced?

I wouldn't get lifetime on a second tivo due to MSD but I will always have a unit with lifetime.


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## banzai.ray (Jul 30, 2007)

I just called TiVo today to ask about transferring my membership. I bought a lifetime membership when I got my first (and only) TiVo for Xmas in 2000. My TiVo is still working and I've loved it but I just moved and no longer have a phone line. The Series 1 (without mod) can only get updates via a phone line. Besides, it's time to go HD. 

The person I talked to, while very pleasant about it, said that they would only transfer memberships purchased before Jan 2000. No exceptions.

I was willing to plunk down $600 today to buy the XL model but only if they would transfer the lifetime membership. Let's face it, Comcast is $5 a month. The XL plus the current lifetime price ($399) just can't compare. I do not like the idea of having to go to Comcast but I just can't swallow an additional $400 (or frankly ANY additional amount, even a monthly fee) especially when, as others have pointed out, they don't work with satellite and there are plenty of other options out there. 

TiVo really needs to rethink the "lifetime applies to the machine; not the customer" sales model. It was probably great when there was no competition, but now it just doesn't make sense IMHO.

The lifetime membership on my Series 1 was definitely worth it. I hate monthly subscription fees especially for hardware that I've bought. At the time, the unit was $400 and the membership was only $100 ($200 with a $100 rebate). Now the unit is more than that amount combined and the lifetime membership brings your total investment to almost $1000.

Too bad.


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## pilotbob (Nov 8, 2007)

banzai.ray said:


> I was willing to plunk down $600 today to buy the XL model but only if they would transfer the lifetime membership. Let's face it, Comcast is $5 a month. The XL plus the current lifetime price ($399) just can't compare.


So, you want TiVo to sell you a device at a loss with no current or future business revenue? Hmm... they are in enough financial trouble as it is. What is their incentive to keep you as a customer if you are not really paying them?

BTW: You don't HAVE to spend $400 for a lifetime membership. You could just pay the monthly fee... I think it is $9.95 per month on a second device. It will be less if you prepay for a year at a time.

BOb


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## banzai.ray (Jul 30, 2007)

Are they really selling the unit at a loss? You hear that a lot these days (Xbox, Playstation, etc.) but is it always true? 

How is it that Comcast can rent you a unit for $5 a month; no hardware to purchase and a lower monthly fee than TiVo. I understand they're in the cable market but it seems like they would be losing money a heck of a lot faster than TiVo if they don't charge a dime for hardware and TiVo's getting $600 for the unit alone.

Doesn't make sense.


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## darksurtur (Jan 2, 2008)

banzai.ray said:


> Are they really selling the unit at a loss? You hear that a lot these days (Xbox, Playstation, etc.) but is it always true?
> 
> How is it that Comcast can rent you a unit for $5 a month; no hardware to purchase and a lower monthly fee than TiVo. I understand they're in the cable market but it seems like they would be losing money a heck of a lot faster than TiVo if they don't charge a dime for hardware and TiVo's getting $600 for the unit alone.
> 
> Doesn't make sense.


They can sell the *hardware* at a loss, since the box comes with a subscription requirement. I'm sure if you add that into the mix, the company would be much closer to breaking even or even being profitable on each unit.

And cable can get away with it because they also have requirements for getting a DVR - a certain level of service, for instance. Higher level packages are very profitable for the cable companies, along with all the extra ancillary fees they sneak in. In my area they have even started charging for paying your bill using their phone system!


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## banzai.ray (Jul 30, 2007)

I s'pose I'm not convinced they're selling the hardware at a loss. Nothing I've read seems to point to that. In fact, quite the opposite. Really DVR is all about the s/w and video compression.

You're right about the cable companies and their fees. They charged $124 to send a dude out with a box just to plug it in. But even then, I get basic cable and broadband internet for less than $70. Tacking on just $5 a month more is a lot easier to swallow than spending $600 plus $10 more a month.

Maybe TiVo's reached the end of the road. I'll be sad to see it go. I was a very vocal proponent for many years but there is just too much competition out there now. Alas.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

As an existing tivo subscriber you can purchase LS for $300. A recent thread had the TivoHD selling for under $210. $250 is a common price. You can get a tivo, with LS, for less then $600.

The XL model is not a good choice *for customers who are looking at the price.* You can upgrade the capacity of the TivoHD.

Tivo is a premium priced product. Cable companies don't have any incremental costs in supplying guide data to DVR boxes. Cable companies are able to provide "bundle" pricing.



banzai.ray said:


> I just called TiVo today to ask about transferring my membership. I bought a lifetime membership when I got my first (and only) TiVo for Xmas in 2000. My TiVo is still working and I've loved it but I just moved and no longer have a phone line. The Series 1 (without mod) can only get updates via a phone line. Besides, it's time to go HD.
> 
> The person I talked to, while very pleasant about it, said that they would only transfer memberships purchased before Jan 2000. No exceptions.
> 
> ...


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## banzai.ray (Jul 30, 2007)

I'm assuming by LS you mean the 20 hour model. If so, my current Series 1 was a 30 and that wasn't enough. (Which raises another point that we shouldn't really get into; why only two units 20 hour and 150 hour? No in-between?)

As far as upgrading, not to sound argumentative but the reason I'd rather not have to buy a unit, then void the warranty just to make it usable.

I think we're all in agreement that the most cost (and time) effective route at this point is to go through the cable company.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

pilotbob said:


> BTW: You don't HAVE to spend $400 for a lifetime membership. You could just pay the monthly fee... I think it is $9.95 per month on a second device. It will be less if you prepay for a year at a time.


Since the poster already has a lifetime box, lifetime on the HD would only be $299.


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## NotVeryWitty (Oct 3, 2003)

banzai.ray said:


> Comcast is $5 a month. The XL plus the current lifetime price ($399) just can't compare.


First off, you're not comparing apples with apples. You don't say what model DVR your local Comcast uses, but I don't believe any of them come anywhere close to the capacity of the XL. If you want a closer comparison, you should be comparing the standard Tivo HD model.

Next, I question whether the $5 price you're quoting is really accurate. I have Charter, not Comcast, but when I had their POS DVR (SA8300HD), I got charged $5 a month for the DVR, plus $10 a month for "DVR service fee". Check to see if Comcast does the same thing.

Finally, as pointed out above, the lifetime service for existing customers is $299 -- granted it's still a lot of money, but 25% less than what you're quoting.

Oh, and have you investigated what you could sell your Series 1 with lifetime on eBay for?

Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

banzai.ray said:


> I'm assuming by LS you mean the 20 hour model. If so, my current Series 1 was a 30 and that wasn't enough. (Which raises another point that we shouldn't really get into; why only two units 20 hour and 150 hour? No in-between?)
> 
> As far as upgrading, not to sound argumentative but the reason I'd rather not have to buy a unit, then void the warranty just to make it usable.
> 
> I think we're all in agreement that the most cost (and time) effective route at this point is to go through the cable company.


It's 20 hours at HD, 180 hours at SD. Record half your shows in SD and you'll have something like 10 hours of HD and 90 hours of SD. That's a lot more then the 30 hours you currently have. Many cable company DVRs aren't any (much) larger. The FiOS DVR only stores around 20 hours of HD content and you can't add external storage.

You won't void the warranty if you purchase the Western Digital MY DVR Expander (external).

Tivo is a premium product. I doubt tivo could ever make money if they match the subsidized prices offered by cable companies.

My point was to show how you could get a tivo, with LS, for less your $600 price point. It might even be possible to get the TivoHD, DVR expander and LS for under $600, but you'll have to sharpen the pencil and may have to wait for a close out pricing on the DVR Expander.

Had you said what you meant, you want to get a DVR for the cheapest possible price I wouldn't have replied to your post.


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## Sheldon469 (Mar 22, 2004)

I logged in today to first search for such a thread and glad I did before starting another one...

I have a S2 and was wondering if I should go with LS or continue to pay $12.95/month? I've had my S2 since 2003. 


Hmmm


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

It all depends.... for me... I'd buy a Tivo HD and get lifetime on it.



Sheldon469 said:


> I logged in today to first search for such a thread and glad I did before starting another one...
> 
> I have a S2 and was wondering if I should go with LS or continue to pay $12.95/month? I've had my S2 since 2003.
> 
> Hmmm


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

NotVeryWitty said:


> First off, you're not comparing apples with apples. You don't say what model DVR your local Comcast uses, but I don't believe any of them come anywhere close to the capacity of the XL. If you want a closer comparison, you should be comparing the standard Tivo HD model.
> 
> Next, I question whether the $5 price you're quoting is really accurate. I have Charter, not Comcast, but when I had their POS DVR (SA8300HD), I got charged $5 a month for the DVR, plus $10 a month for "DVR service fee". Check to see if Comcast does the same thing.
> 
> ...


+1. There's no way in hell he's gonna rent a dual-tuner HD DVR from Comcast for $5 a month (it'll be north of $12 a month, most likely), so everything posted here was just a rant because he can't get service for his lifetime, not the box's.


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

When I got setup for HD, including buying a TiVoHD, it was a quick decision to get lifetime.


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## husky55 (Feb 2, 2008)

I have upgraded my internal hd and added an esata drive. I am committed just like the pig is to the bacon.

Happy New year


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