# Mad Men 6/10/12 "The Phantom" Season Finale SPOILERS



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Pretty good, but a bit of a let down from last week, IMO.

So Don has come full circle. Starting to smoke and womanize again. Guess old habits die hard.

Love the shot of the five partners silhouetted against the windows of their future expansion.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Peter000 said:


> Pretty good, but a bit of a let down from last week, IMO.
> 
> So Don has come full circle. Starting to smoke and womanize again. Guess old habits die hard.
> 
> Love the shot of the five partners silhouetted against the windows of their future expansion.


I don't think he ever stopped smoking, and they never showed him going with the girl, he just paused when asked if he was alone. Don feels lonely.

I'm not saying he didn't womanize, but it's not concrete that he did stray...


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

If I'm not mistaken, Don quit smoking when he wrote that open letter to Lucky Strike or whatever it was that got him in trouble with other clients. He was actually exercising and getting all fit. This episode was the first I was conscious of him lighting up again.

And it certainly seemed to indicate that he was going to sleep with the stranger. Seemed pretty obvious they were going for a parallel of his old life with Betty. I'd be shocked if next season they didn't have him sleeping around.

And they're back to the successful two-floor agency as well. 

I thought for a second that I was watching a series finale rather than a season. It's almost a Don Draper reset.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

The movie playing at the theater where Don ran into Peggy was Casino Royale, then the closing scene used the theme from You Only Live Twice as the background music.

Megan's story was interesting. She dertemines the acting class was a scam, does some soul searching, and decides some pragmatism is called for.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

And the insurance thing. Handled quickly and easy. No muss, no fuss. Well, OK.. Lane's wife wasn't so happy with Don's visit. But at least that is over and done.


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

I'll have to rewatch the ending. I thought it was Megan and her friend at the bar with Don.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

I can't see how you could take away from their very deliberate cut that Don was womanizing again, they only showed him being approached smiling back, for all we know the next line was "no thank you I'm married" but we have to wait until next season.


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

I've think Don's been smoking throughout the season ... perhaps I'm remembering wrong.

In any case, no Betty ... and Pete got punched out twice


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

Mr. Soze said:


> I'll have to rewatch the ending. I thought it was Megan and her friend at the bar with Don.


Not Megan at the bar, but the blonde who approached Don definitely looked like her acting friend from earlier. Payback for stealing her commercial opportunity?

eta: ok...not megan's friend at the bar based on reviews.


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## grant33 (Jun 11, 2003)

That was kind of an anti-climactic season finale. I believe this is the first season of the show where Don didn't sleep around. If that's the case, then it's kind of interesting that they ended the season with the will he/won't he "cliffhanger".


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## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

Peter000 said:


> If I'm not mistaken, Don quit smoking when he wrote that open letter to Lucky Strike or whatever it was that got him in trouble with other clients...


He didn't quit smoking. I think someone even called him a hypocrite at one point after writing the letter.


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

Shakhari said:


> ... and Pete got punched out twice


:up: :up: :up:

I said to Mrs. S., watch that he goes home and Trudy kicks his ass!


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## KenDC (Jun 18, 2001)

Don didn't quit smoking. It was not Megan nor her friend in the bar. I do think the last scene was asking up the question of where Don is with Megan.

I thought it was a boring episode and it would have been better off closing with last week's.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Well I guess that answers that about the insurance. The firm has life insurance on the partners but apparently Lane's shares are not inheritable since Don was just giving her the $50k to reimburse for the initial investment. 

I think Don is really trying to figure out how to make Meghan happy. The girls at the end hitting on him was a call back I think to him and Joan in the bar and Joan saying that all the girls in the bar were staring at her like she was the lucky one. Don will always have the opportunity I don't think he is ready to partake yet.

OK and is it just me or is it odd to see Rory Gilmore in a grown up role? She still has the same face even though she is over 30 it is just kinda weird.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Pete got punched a lot this season.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Some funny twitter reactions:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...&ir=Entertainment&ref=entertainment#s=1077640


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Pete needs to take a boxing class.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

vman41 said:


> The movie playing at the theater where Don ran into Peggy was Casino Royale, then the closing scene used the theme from You Only Live Twice as the background music.


And I got a James Bond vibe from Don as he was walking off Megan's set and into the bar. I almost expected him to order a vodka martini, shaken, not stirred.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Lots of metaphors. My take is:

Don is in a lot of pain mostly when he sees Megan. It metaphors through his tooth. The only solution is rip it from his body.

Don's channels his brother who commit suicide because Don rejected his needs.
Don feels remorse because he could have helped Lane and did not and Lane commits suicide like his brother.

Now his wife who I believe he does love is feeling strangled by the traditional domestic life he has given her.

He feels to save her he must rip her from himself and we have the final haunting scene of him giving her the acting gig under her maiden name and WALKING away.

So how will it play out next year. Given their leaps in time. She may well be gone as the show opens. I think resorting him to him cheating and boozing would be a cheap let down and inconsistent with his growth in character.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I would never, ever, ever put ice on a painful tooth that needed an extraction. That sounds like the worst possible thing to do.

I really liked the last moment. I didn't really care for the montage that immediately preceded it, though I did get a chuckle at Roger on acid. The episode overall was quite enjoyable. I enjoyed the presence of cigarettes in this episode as a unifying theme. Peggy's coming up with Virginia Slim and becoming like Don. Don of all people deliberately smokes a cigarette just hours after his dentist tells him not to.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

zalusky said:


> He feels to save her he must rip her from himself and we have the final haunting scene of him giving her the acting gig under her maiden name and WALKING away.


The screen test clapboard showed her using the name Calvet. I don't think Don decided that, Megan always saw herself being a famous actress as Megan Calvet.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

vman41 said:


> The screen test clapboard showed her using the name Calvet. I don't think Don decided that, Megan always saw herself being a famous actress as Megan Calvet.


Although she did say earlier in the episode that she'd use Calvet so it wouldn't be obvious to the client that Din gave the job to his wife.


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

A couple of other thoughts.

The dogs shagging???  And the opposite reaction to Mrs. S. Roger's ass.   Roger is great though.

Don watching Megan's reel reminded me of the Carousel episode. He realized how much he loves her, and this time instead of going home to an empty house, he gets her the shoe gig.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

vman41 said:


> The screen test clapboard showed her using the name Calvet. I don't think Don decided that, Megan always saw herself being a famous actress as Megan Calvet.


It's a metaphor that goes with him walking away as she becomes smaller and smaller.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Mr. Soze said:


> Don watching Megan's reel reminded me of the Carousel episode. He realized how much he loves her, and this time instead of going home to an empty house, he gets her the shoe gig.


I got this feeling also. He was smiling, in a nice loving way. I hope that the last scene was not him going back to his old ways. I got the feeling that by the end of the episode he had gotten several issues resolved and was back on a good track.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

This episode was not as good as that previous two, so it was a bit of a letdown, but it was still pretty solid.

I would not be surprised if Megan and Don have broken up at the beginning of the next season. Him walking away into the dark as she stayed in the spotlight was pretty clear that the honeymoon of their romance was over. They've actually had a pretty dark relationship. Unlike Betty where they kept of the facade of a happy couple, Don and Megan let the darkness shine through, from the fight after the birthday party dance, to being left at the HoJo to throwing a plate of spaghetti against the wall. Don put up with it as long as Megan stayed in the mold of what he wanted. Watching her screen test he realized she had some talent and he wasn't going to hold her back. But, it also meant he wasn't going to be the perfect husband anymore - hence the seedy bar and picking up the lovely ladies.

I'm so glad we saw Peggy again.

I didn't like all the dwelling on Pete. I love office Pete, can't stand home life Pete. Him getting punched out twice was great though.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

betts4 said:


> I got this feeling also. He was smiling, in a nice loving way. I hope that the last scene was not him going back to his old ways. I got the feeling that by the end of the episode he had gotten several issues resolved and was back on a good track.


How funny. I took away the exact opposite impression of the end!


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## mm2margaret (Dec 7, 2010)

mwhip said:


> Pete got punched a lot this season.


Pete *deserved* getting punched out a lot! He's the absolute definition of a creep. Fun, in a perverse way, to watch, but still a creep.


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## mm2margaret (Dec 7, 2010)

My reaction to this episode, for some reason, was that it had a hard time holding my interest. I found myself drifting. Perhaps that's just because the previous episode had so much going on in it, that it was just not possible for this ep to measure up, but it just didn't hold me. Still trying to figure that out.

Things did happen in this episode. There was one theme running through it that I saw, which was Don's progression to understanding that he was responsible to help those he loves and cares about to progress. Remember what Megan's mother said to him? I think this shows progress for Don, the eternal womanizer and cad who, up to this season, only appeared to care only about himself. How much progress and how serious? That remains to be seen. Weiner could take this a number of ways, that's the beauty of it.

He makes that comment to Peggy, who has left him, so to speak, about this very same topic and I viewed the scene when he views the film of Megan as one that said he genuinely loved her and cared about her.

The scene of him walking away in the darkness with her in the colorful garb about to perform in the commercial she so badly wanted, was haunting, but I don't know that necessarily foreshadows their marriage ending. Nor does him in the bar, either, at least not for sure.

What choices he makes will be very interesting to follow up on next season, and I just hate having to wait a year to follow up.

Overall a pretty dam good season, even though this episode just didn't hold up to the others. This episode was mostly just setup for season 6, and from that point of view, and the questions it opened up, it did a pretty good job, imho.

Is this still the best show on Television? Not sure about that, given the amazing season Justified had, and Game of Thrones had. Still great TV, if not the best this year.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Pete should get punched in the face every episode. That makes snoozefests like this episode somewhat more enjoyable.

I'm getting tired of shows warning about nudity and then having it be naked old man butt.

What kind of company is it where one partner can unilaterally give someone $50,000.


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

It would be awesome if Pete could insult some Filipino guy on a Mohawk flight.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

And yes, Pete getting punched a couple times was great. I did do something I never have done before with a Mad Men episode. I fastforwarded thru the Pete and what's her name in the hospital. I watched a minute or so and was just bored. 

I did love the shot with all the directors line up in the windows. Nicely done.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Zevida said:


> I would not be surprised if Megan and Don have broken up at the beginning of the next season. Him walking away into the dark as she stayed in the spotlight was pretty clear that the honeymoon of their romance was over. They've actually had a pretty dark relationship. Unlike Betty where they kept of the facade of a happy couple, Don and Megan let the darkness shine through, from the fight after the birthday party dance, to being left at the HoJo to throwing a plate of spaghetti against the wall. Don put up with it as long as Megan stayed in the mold of what he wanted. Watching her screen test he realized she had some talent and he wasn't going to hold her back. But, it also meant he wasn't going to be the perfect husband anymore - hence the seedy bar and picking up the lovely ladies.


Yes. To me, the most logical interpretation of that closing scene is that the old Don is back. Why show that stylized shot of him walking away from Megan and into the bar with those shameless hussies unless Don is going to cheat (at a minimum) and possibly end the marriage? If the point was supposed to be that Don was going to say No because he loves being married to Meagan so much, then why not just have him have him say "no" or have him stay there and watch her do the commercial?



Zevida said:


> I didn't like all the dwelling on Pete. I love office Pete, can't stand home life Pete. Him getting punched out twice was great though.





betts4 said:


> And yes, Pete getting punched a couple times was great. I did do something I never have done before with a Mad Men episode. I fastforwarded thru the Pete and what's her name in the hospital. I watched a minute or so and was just bored.


I've never found Pete to be interesting, though I do enjoy seeing him being punched. Not quite as much as I enjoy a seeing certain character on Game of Thrones being punched and/or slapped, but close.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> What kind of company is it where one partner can unilaterally give someone $50,000.


I thought it was pretty clear that Don said the company had six years to pay it back, but that they discussed it and decided to pay off Lane's portion early.

What did Lane's widow mean when she said Lane already had much more than $50k that belonged to him?


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> What did Lane's widow mean when she said Lane already had much more than $50k that belonged to him?


I assumed that was her sense of entitlement showing, but I could be wrong.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> What kind of company is it where one partner can unilaterally give someone $50,000.





DevdogAZ said:


> I thought it was pretty clear that Don said the company had six years to pay it back, but that they discussed it and decided to pay off Lane's portion early.
> 
> What did Lane's widow mean when she said Lane already had much more than $50k that belonged to him?


I think is an interesting set of questions, especially when $50,000 in 1966 is the equivalent of $355,000 in today's dollars.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

It meant that she was still under the impression that they were well-off.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> I think is an interesting set of questions, especially when $50,000 in 1966 is the equivalent of $355,000 in today's dollars.


Didn't Joan ask about the $50,000 and Don basically told her to mind her own beeswax? I'm surprised Don didn't subtract the $8,000 that Lane embezzled unless it bought him a clear conscience.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> What did Lane's widow mean when she said Lane already had much more than $50k that belonged to him?





Marco said:


> I assumed that was her sense of entitlement showing, but I could be wrong.





TAsunder said:


> It meant that she was still under the impression that they were well-off.


It's tough to figure out exactly what she meant, especially in the context of her other statement, which was something to the effect of they should never had let Lane think as big as he did, i.e. they made him believe he could do better than she felt that he had a right to expect, if that makes any sense.

So on the one hand, she says that he had given the firm far more than $50K, and on the other, she says that SDCP never should have let him believe he could be more than just a middle manager.


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

Marco said:


> I assumed that was her sense of entitlement showing, but I could be wrong.


All she got back was the capital call. Lane's partnership piece should have some value too. That needs settling too, unless she's going to keep his interest as a non-employee much as Bert's sister did at the old SC.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Oh and was the storyline with Pete and the married lady that she has affairs then the husband sends her for shock therapy?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

mwhip said:


> Oh and was the storyline with Pete and the married lady that she has affairs then the husband sends her for shock therapy?


Seems like that with a bit of depression added in.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> Seems like that with a bit of depression added in.


Ahhh the time before prozac...lithium and shock treatment.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

This cracked me up. From the partner meeting (I'm paraphrasing):

Pete: I have to go. I give Don my proxy.

Don: We can do that?


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## avery (May 29, 2006)

mwhip said:


> Oh and was the storyline with Pete and the married lady that she has affairs then the husband sends her for shock therapy?





TAsunder said:


> Seems like that with a bit of depression added in.


I'd be more inclined to say her tendency towards depression is what drives her to the affairs. She certainly isn't very well-balanced in general and she sure makes _early_-Betty look good by comparison!!

Pete seems to follow the same pattern... his description of his *friend's* situation mirrors hers, save the need to be medicated and hospitalized. I may be in the minority but thought that entire exchange between the two of them was really interesting.


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## sonnik (Jul 7, 2000)

Peter000 said:


> I thought for a second that I was watching a series finale rather than a season.


It did have that "could have been a series finale vibe". _The Office_ seems to do this on most season finales. I think that showrunners these days (who are passionate about their shows) would rather leave the show with some closure should something go wrong in the off season.

I think the "cliffhanger" is often viewed these days as a cheapened effort to get folks back next season, driven by the studio or network.

The camera work on Don as he was walking away from the filming set at the end was probably the most symbolic for me. It *almost* had a break the 4th wall feel, but seemed to signify that Don was walking away from a fantasy that he'd have the perfect life with Megan.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I was fully expecting them to pan to her after Pete left and realize that she remembered him all along. 

I think Lane's biggest problem was his wife. What a witch. Did it even occur to her that the stupid car gift was the last straw? Surely it will when she realizes they have no money, if someone hasn't explained it to her yet. 

Loved the scene with Peggy and Don.....and the old man butt.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

zalusky said:


> Don is in a lot of pain mostly when he sees Megan. It metaphors through his tooth. The only solution is rip it from his body.


wow. that is an amazing observation.!

I thought it was a good episode but as a season finale?

Not so much.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Mad Men season finales are always a little anti-climactic. The real action always happens in the penultimate episode, and Weiner then uses the finale to set up the next season's storylines.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

dianebrat said:


> I can't see how you could take away from their very deliberate cut that Don was womanizing again, they only showed him being approached smiling back, for all we know the next line was "no thank you I'm married" but we have to wait until next season.


What I took away from the last scene was that the real Don was back and he was absolutely going to cheat on Megan. Don cannot be happy; he has to mess things up; he only likes the beginning of things. His brother haunting him reminded him of all that. 
The very fact that he went to the bar alone is evidence of his intentions.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> I can't see how you could take away from their very deliberate cut that Don was womanizing again, they only showed him being approached smiling back, for all we know the next line was "no thank you I'm married" but we have to wait until next season.





tiams said:


> What I took away from the last scene was that the real Don was back and he was absolutely going to cheat on Megan. Don cannot be happy; he has to mess things up; he only likes the beginning of things. His brother haunting him reminded him of all that.
> The very fact that he went to the bar alone is evidence of his intentions.


And I completely disagree, if they wanted you to know he was cheating on Megan then show him post-sex smoking a cigarette, that cut is there for a VERY specific reason, so that we can each take what we want from that scene and will wait until the season opener to know what it really meant.

I'd say we're ALL correct until Matthew Weiner writes and films the next scene.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Mad Men season finales are always a little anti-climactic. The real action always happens in the penultimate episode, and Weiner then uses the finale to set up the next season's storylines.


Exactly like they do on HBO shows, where he learned his craft.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

In some ways like the final scene of THE SOPRANOS... Left each and every viewer to make what they can of it. The only difference is, perhaps we'll have an answer in 9 months or so.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

dianebrat said:


> And I completely disagree, if they wanted you to know he was cheating on Megan then show him post-sex smoking a cigarette, that cut is there for a VERY specific reason, so that we can each take what we want from that scene and will wait until the season opener to know what it really meant.
> 
> I'd say we're ALL correct until Matthew Weiner writes and films the next scene.


+1


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

dianebrat said:


> And I completely disagree, if they wanted you to know he was cheating on Megan then show him post-sex smoking a cigarette, that cut is there for a VERY specific reason, so that we can each take what we want from that scene and will wait until the season opener to know what it really meant.


Yes. Yes. And Yes.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

mwhip said:


> Oh and was the storyline with Pete and the married lady that she has affairs then the husband sends her for shock therapy?


I think it was the husbands affairs that were the cause. He had affairs which deeply depressed the wife so he then sent her for shock treatments and she agreed to them because she wanted to forget. Her depression was caused by the terrible way her husband treated her (his affairs, keeping an apartment). Then to top off his despicable nature, while she was in the hospital, he wanted to go out carousing with Pete.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

tiams said:


> I think it was the husbands affairs that were the cause.


I think Howard was sending her because of her affairs: The reason he started a fight with Pete at the end of the episode is that he realized Pete was the person she was having the affair with.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

Shakhari said:


> Pete got punched out twice


I hate the fact I feel ambivalent about Pete getting punched out twice. If not for the fact that he was upset about the other guys wife getting electro-shock therapy then I would have been thrilled he got punched by 2 different guys in a 5 minute span.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> What did Lane's widow mean when she said Lane already had much more than $50k that belonged to him?


She seemed to know that the insurance policy paid off way more than $50,000 (I think it was $175,000) and the company was keeping the rest (as they had the legal if not moral right to do).


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

What about Pete's wife now agreeing to him having an apartment in the city instead of a pool? What fun the d-bag can have now!


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

kaszeta said:


> I think Howard was sending her because of her affairs: The reason he started a fight with Pete at the end of the episode is that he realized Pete was the person she was having the affair with.


But her depression was caused by his affairs and his neglect of her. Howard wasn't sending her for the shock treatments, she chose them. She welcomed them because she would get to such a dark place and they were "a door she could walk through".


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

tivoboyjr said:


> Yes. To me, the most logical interpretation of that closing scene is that the old Don is back. Why show that stylized shot of him walking away from Megan and into the bar with those shameless hussies unless Don is going to cheat (at a minimum) and possibly end the marriage? If the point was supposed to be that Don was going to say No because he loves being married to Meagan so much, then why not just have him have him say "no" or have him stay there and watch her do the commercial?


Exactly. Bert Cooper had described Don as being on "love leave". Like Roger said about his LSD inspired enlightenment, the love leave "wore off" and he needed to do it again. The real Don is back. Even if he does turn down this one girl in the bar, he won't turn down the next one. I don't see any way the final scene could mean anything other than Don returns to cheating. Weiner felt his audience was smart enough to not need it spelled out.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

tiams said:


> But her depression was caused by his affairs and his neglect of her. Howard wasn't sending her for the shock treatments, she chose them. She welcomed them because she would get to such a dark place and they were "a door she could walk through".


I agree. I think her depression was real and her belief that the shock treatments helped was real. I also think her husband was a big contributor to her mental state and that he didn't mind the byproducts of the shock treatment- getting her short-term memory wiped and her spending time in the mental hospital.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Did shock treatments really cause memory loss like that?


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

All of this talk of Joan doing sex to help further the companies position mirrors the news:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...-named-in-_n_1589341.html?utm_hp_ref=business


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Zevida said:


> Did shock treatments really cause memory loss like that?


Yes, according to Kitty Dukakis' memoirs


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Shock treatments are a horrific, borderline barbaric form of treatment that are steeped in controversy about their efficacy. These days, it is used a lot less frequently.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Good article (so far, just read the first paragraph)

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/...view_and_the_slate_tv_club_says_goodbye_.html

Regarding the women at the bar


> But her choice of words has great resonance for the season that's just ended. Are you alone? How many of our heroes can answer that in the negative?


And the rest of the characters.

So it could be just that, or in conjuncture with Don cheating maybe.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I thought she was in remarkably good shape for just having a 1960's style shock treatment.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Shock treatments are a horrific, borderline barbaric form of treatment that are steeped in controversy about their efficacy. These days, it is used a lot less frequently.


Except on TV. The name of another show is below. Can't name it here or it would be a spoiler.



Spoiler



Homeland


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

MikeMar said:


> Good article (so far, just read the first paragraph)
> 
> http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/...view_and_the_slate_tv_club_says_goodbye_.html


After reading that article it lead me to a couple others there about Mad Men. One - and I didn't save the link - mentioned something interesting.

Megan blindsided her friend to get the audition. Her friend asked her to ask Don, but instead she asked him. Not the nice Megan we all have come to know.


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

MikeMar said:


> Good article (so far, just read the first paragraph)
> 
> http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/...view_and_the_slate_tv_club_says_goodbye_.html
> 
> ...


One of the comments to that article made a very interesting point IMO regarding the closing song.



> "You Only Live Twice." Does that mean that our boy Don has already gotten his allotment of lives and he won't reinvent himself again? Two identities, two marriages. He'll stay with Megan and make a go of this life?


Technically 3 marriages, counting Anna.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

betts4 said:


> After reading that article it lead me to a couple others there about Mad Men. One - and I didn't save the link - mentioned something interesting.
> 
> Megan blindsided her friend to get the audition. Her friend asked her to ask Don, but instead she asked him. Not the nice Megan we all have come to know.


Yes, Megan very clearly stabbed her friend in the back. No question. It will be interesting to see if anything comes of that, or if it's just a way to show us that a little bit of Don's ruthlessness is rubbing off on Megan. And if she'll betray her friend to get ahead in her career, it probably won't be long before she'll betray Don to get ahead in her career as well.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Mr. Soze said:


> One of the comments to that article made a very interesting point IMO regarding the closing song.
> 
> Technically 3 marriages, counting Anna.


I read a brief article with the Mad Men creator that said:



Spoiler



Something along the same lines - like "viewers should assume that Don will be with Megan the rest of his life. That's what Don assumes." That made me think that they will not be broken up next season. I think this was a teaser-before-the-finale article. Can't remember where I read about it.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

Man what Megan's mom said, to Don I think (to paraphrase), about being with someone who wants to be an artist but discovers their not an artist, but you're left with someone with the personality of an artist really struck home for me. 

My wife is the same exact way. It seems that when you are with someone like that you are always riding this line of wanting to see the person be happy in what they are doing. But on the other hand you need to be realistic and want to see them stop torturing themselves trying to attain this difficult goal which they have had since childhood that all of their happiness is dependent upon. 

I could totally see how that would get Don thinking about their future together and how both of them actually compromised with their core values for her to be ruthless in getting the part for a commercial (which she previously didn't want to do), and for Don to be OK with it (or even pull strings to get it for her). 

From a technical standpoint, do you think they actually used film for that part where Don was looking at her audition, or was that just some good processing software to make the frame-rate and picture look like film? Either way, I thought that was well done.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Was Megan's mom basically saying that she didn't think Megan was a good enough actress to actually get work? And that she'd just toil away as an unfulfilled struggling actress for the rest of her life? Seems that when Don was watching the screen test, she appeared to have a very likable quality and that's partly what convinced Don to get the job for Megan.

I wonder if Don is now going to do what he can to help Megan succeed just to spite Megan's ***** of a mom.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> Was Megan's mom basically saying that she didn't think Megan was a good enough actress to actually get work? And that she'd just toil away as an unfulfilled struggling actress for the rest of her life? Seems that when Don was watching the screen test, she appeared to have a very likable quality and that's partly what convinced Don to get the job for Megan.
> 
> I wonder if Don is now going to do what he can to help Megan succeed just to spite Megan's ***** of a mom.


Megan's mom might have been saying that she wasn't good, but either way I think Don realized some truth in her statement and saw that as his and her future unless he did something about it.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Was Megan's mom basically saying that she didn't think Megan was a good enough actress to actually get work? And that she'd just toil away as an unfulfilled struggling actress for the rest of her life? Seems that when Don was watching the screen test, she appeared to have a very likable quality and that's partly what convinced Don to get the job for Megan.


Yes, Megan's mom said she has the artist's temperament without the talent.

The screen test was a lovely girl standing around. There was no talking or acting. As far as we know, she's just a pretty face.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

Zevida said:


> The screen test was a lovely girl standing around. There was no talking or acting. As far as we know, she's just a pretty face.


Well, her part in the commercial is the Beauty.

Refresh my memory, was Megan's mom a dancer or a musician?


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

[My apologies if any of this is redundant. I've been out of town, but still wanted to throw my two cents in.]

Adam showing up was a subconscious reminder to Don about how he failed to help someone in need. Megan's career situation paralleled Adam's down-and-out situation and reignited the guilt Don felt over not helping Adam and it began to wear on his conscience (physically, metaphorically manifested by the toothache). After viewing Megan's reel, Don realized that this time around he needed to do the right thing - help Megan. BUT, as Peggy said in the movie theater, Don was afraid of Megan succeeding because then he'd be left alone, which, at least temporarily, is exactly what happens to Don at the end of the episode. He's left alone at the bar. Now that Megan is working, how will Don spend his time? He could fall back into his old ways, or has Don matured? Weiner is deliberately ambiguous on this and so the question cannot be said to be answered. It's a Schrodinger's Ad Man situation. We have to wait until the box is opened next season.

ETA: Anyone else reminded of the Sopranos episode where Tony finally agrees to use his influence and helps Carmella get the building permit for her spec house? This was practically a dead-ringer for that situation.


----------



## lpamelaa (May 3, 2004)

Style insights:

http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2012/06/mad-style-the-phantom.html


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> What kind of company is it where one partner can unilaterally give someone $50,000.


He can't. Much like he couldn't end the discussion about Joan by leaving the room.

But he thought he could.



dianebrat said:


> I'd say we're ALL correct until Matthew Weiner writes and films the next scene.


Schrodinger's television!


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

lpamelaa said:


> Style insights:
> 
> http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2012/06/mad-style-the-phantom.html


Interesting as usual. I never noticed the Beth/Pete resemblance. Totally fits Pete's view of himself.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

tiams said:


> She seemed to know that the insurance policy paid off way more than $50,000 (I think it was $175,000) and the company was keeping the rest (as they had the legal if not moral right to do).


The whole purpose of key-employee insurance is to indemnify *the company* for the loss of the services of the key employee. Sometime a portion of the proceeds is used to repurchase the shares of the deceased employee.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

tiams said:


> ....The very fact that he went to the bar alone is evidence of his intentions.


Huh? He had no other choice...Megan was working.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

lpamelaa said:


> Style insights:
> 
> http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2012/06/mad-style-the-phantom.html


"Not that theyre literally his glasses. That would be morbid and weird."

And they're broken!


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> Huh? He had no other choice...Megan was working.


Of course he had a choice. He could have gone home, or he could have stayed and watched Megan or he could have gone to the office. But he chose to go to a bar where he knew he could get lucky.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

tiams said:


> Of course he had a choice. He could have gone home, or he could have stayed and watched Megan or he could have gone to the office. But he chose to go to a bar where he knew he could get lucky.


He meant that Don had no other choice than to go somewhere "alone", i.e., without Megan, if he did not want to stay and watch the commercial shoot.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Vincent Kartheiser gained 25 lbs and shaved back his hairline, all to make Pete Campbell more punchable.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

tiams said:


> Of course he had a choice. He could have gone home, or he could have stayed and watched Megan or he could have gone to the office. But he chose to go to a bar where he knew he could get lucky.


That's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying there was no choice between going to the bar with or without Megan. She was working. I was responding to a post that said "The very fact that he went to the bar_* alone *_ is evidence of his intentions."

My response was clear....except to you. It was going to the bar alone or not alone. No choice, since Megan was unavailable.

Sure he could have done something else other than go to the bar; that's not what I was referring to...


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Vincent Kartheiser gained 25 lbs and shaved back his hairline, all to make Pete Campbell more punchable.


Great article/blog. After reading that I did an image google for him and see lots of shots of him in a beard. Also a few from way back when....I hadn't connected that Pete was Angel's son. I mean, now that I see it, I see that same kind of smirky sneer they both had.

Anyway, in the image search I found this shot - not related to Mad Men in anyway, but thought he looked cute.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Wow that doesn't even look like Vince!


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Wow! Totally didn't make the Angel connection.

That picture is creepy...it looks like a top and bottom half photoshopped together. The top looks like Pete (with hair awry) the bottom looks like some other dude.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Robin said:


> Wow! Totally didn't make the Angel connection.
> 
> That picture is creepy...it looks like a top and bottom half photoshopped together. The top looks like Pete (with hair awry) the bottom looks like some other dude.


I thought the eyes still look "Pete-creepy" but the new beard style was something from "Life on Mars" or some 70's show.

It is fun seeing actors looking different then you are used to in their roles. I love Jon Hamm, but never googled image searched him.

Found this one from a few years back. I started drooling.










Okay, yes. I have a thing for men with beards.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

betts4 said:


> Okay, yes. I have a thing for men with beards.


Clearly!


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

I hope that Don doesn't spend the whole next season "off his game". I thought that having both him and Peggy doing substandard work was a bit much, especially when combined with the INCREDIBLY annoying whiz-kid Ginsberg.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

betts4 said:


> I hadn't connected that Pete was Angel's son. I mean, now that I see it, I see that same kind of smirky sneer they both had.





Robin said:


> Wow! Totally didn't make the Angel connection.


Really? The moment I first saw Pete Campbell on screen I was like "OMG - that's Connor! And he's just as unlikeable here!" 

Kartheiser has a real knack for playing obnoxious characters.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

I say Don doesn't stray.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Bryanmc said:


> I say Don doesn't stray.


I'd like to share your faith in Don's rebirth and hope that you're correct, but logically it doesn't work.

Matthew Weiner ended this season with a bit of a cliffhanger. I hope the intention is to answer that question sometime in the next season, preferably in the season premiere. Usually there is a span of several months to a year or more between seasons.

So S6 could pick up right were S5 ended, but that would be atypical. The more likely scenario is that S6 will pick up several months later, toward the end of 1967 or perhaps even the beginning of 1968. If that happens, the only way to resolve the cliffhanger with Don having not strayed is to have some clunky bit of dialogue with Don referencing that night, or for he and Megan to have some discussion/fight where he says that he's always been faithful to her. That doesn't seem like the Mad Men way.

Instead, I think it's more likely that when S6 begins, we'll see that Don is back to his old ways of sleeping around, and we'll be left to simply infer that he ceased being faithful on that night at the end of S5. To me, that seems much more like the way Matthew Weiner would do things.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> I If that happens, the only way to resolve the cliffhanger with Don having not strayed is to have some clunky bit of dialogue with Don referencing that night, or for he and Megan to have some discussion/fight where he says that he's always been faithful to her.


Not at all. In pure Mad Men style we will spend the next episode (or several) looking for clues to whether he is cheating or isn't cheating. They're not going to necessarily spell out anything, we're going to have to watch and see.

We've experienced some _significant_ Don growth over the last several seasons, from his pit of despair apartment after he and Betty split up to seemingly happy and faithful Don with Megan. He's figuring himself out and he's not the man he was 5 years ago. We even saw that watershed moment when he thinks he cheated due to his fever dream and is willing to kill to hide the fact. I think he's committed to not being that man again, and honestly I'd see it as a little bit of a insult to just have him be 'Old Don' again. He's changed too much.

So I'm not saying that he's going to stay with Megan, I think there are some serious indications that he's thinking they shouldn't be together, but if that happens I think he'll leave her I don't think he'll do what he did with Betty and pretend with Megan and have stuff on the side.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Bryanmc said:


> Not at all. In pure Mad Men style we will spend the next episode (or several) looking for clues to whether he is cheating or isn't cheating. They're not going to necessarily spell out anything, we're going to have to watch and see.
> 
> We've experienced some _significant_ Don growth over the last several seasons, from his pit of despair apartment after he and Betty split up to seemingly happy and faithful Don with Megan. * He's figuring himself out and he's not the man he was 5 years ago. * We even saw that watershed moment when he thinks he cheated due to his fever dream and is willing to kill to hide the fact. I think he's committed to not being that man again, and honestly I'd see it as a little bit of a insult to just have him be 'Old Don' again. He's changed too much.
> 
> So I'm not saying that he's going to stay with Megan, I think there are some serious indications that he's thinking they shouldn't be together, but if that happens I think he'll leave her I don't think he'll do what he did with Betty and pretend with Megan and have stuff on the side.


I agree and hope they keep Don growing and not settling back into old ways. I would even like to see he and Megan grow as a couple and compromise on things a bit.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Bryanmc said:


> Not at all. In pure Mad Men style we will spend the next episode (or several) looking for clues to whether he is cheating or isn't cheating. They're not going to necessarily spell out anything, we're going to have to watch and see.
> 
> We've experienced some _significant_ Don growth over the last several seasons, from his pit of despair apartment after he and Betty split up to seemingly happy and faithful Don with Megan. He's figuring himself out and he's not the man he was 5 years ago. We even saw that watershed moment when he thinks he cheated due to his fever dream and is willing to kill to hide the fact. I think he's committed to not being that man again, and honestly I'd see it as a little bit of a insult to just have him be 'Old Don' again. He's changed too much.
> 
> So I'm not saying that he's going to stay with Megan, I think there are some serious indications that he's thinking they shouldn't be together, but if that happens I think he'll leave her I don't think he'll do what he did with Betty and pretend with Megan and have stuff on the side.


I'm not sure Don's grown so much as he's been in the honeymoon phase of his new marriage. Now that honeymoon phase is clearly over, and he's becoming disillusioned with the relationship. I don't recall us seeing anything that would indicate he's grown on his own independent of that relationship, and I don't think it would be a stretch at all for him to revert to his old behavior once he no longer has that relationship to believe in.

And like I said, unless they open the next season shortly after that scene in the bar, then it will be difficult for them to indicate that Don's been faithful without some clunky dialogue. It will be much easier (and much more in character for Don and for the show) for us to simply see him whoring around when S6 opens and then we'll know that the end of S5 was the turning point.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> I
> And like I said, unless they open the next season shortly after that scene in the bar, then it will be difficult for them to indicate that Don's been faithful without some clunky dialogue.


I think this might be because you're not a writer.  Mad Men story lines are _filled_ with assumptions the audience has to make. That's one of the greatest things about the show, it doesn't treat the audience like idiots, it gives you a slice of life from these people and leaves it to us to fill in the blanks that we've missed.

All we will need to see is a Don that's continuing to be faithful to Megan, whether happily or struggling, and we will know what he did that night in the bar.

No "clunky dialogue" needed, only subtle story telling, of which Weiner is a master.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Bryanmc said:


> I think this might be because you're not a writer.  Mad Men story lines are _filled_ with assumptions the audience has to make. That's one of the greatest things about the show, it doesn't treat the audience like idiots, it gives you a slice of life from these people and leaves it to us to fill in the blanks that we've missed.
> 
> All we will need to see is a Don that's continuing to be faithful to Megan, whether happily or struggling, and we will know what he did that night in the bar.
> 
> No "clunky dialogue" needed, only subtle story telling, of which Weiner is a master.


I agree with you about the quality of the writing, and if that's how they choose to portray it, I would agree with your inference as to its meaning.

However, I think the cliffhanger question at the end of this episode was specific enough that many fans will not be satisfied without a specific answer. So if we simply see Don being faithful 6-12 months later, plenty of people will complain that this doesn't mean Don was faithful that particular night.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> I agree with you about the quality of the writing, and if that's how they choose to portray it, I would agree with your inference as to its meaning.
> 
> However, I think the cliffhanger question at the end of this episode was specific enough that many fans will not be satisfied without a specific answer. So if we simply see Don being faithful 6-12 months later, plenty of people will complain that this doesn't mean Don was faithful that particular night.


But I just don't think Mad Men caters to those kinds of people. It's smarter than that.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

betts4 said:


> After reading that article it lead me to a couple others there about Mad Men. One - and I didn't save the link - mentioned something interesting.
> 
> Megan blindsided her friend to get the audition. Her friend asked her to ask Don, but instead she asked him. Not the nice Megan we all have come to know.


Which is actually part of why I (apparently) misidentified the woman in the bar at the end _as_ Megan's friend.

I thought she found out was was pissed enough to try to screw up Megan's marrage. But instead it seems I just can't tell actresses apart  (which honestly I already knew)


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Bryanmc said:


> We've experienced some _significant_ Don growth over the last several seasons, from his pit of despair apartment after he and Betty split up to seemingly happy and faithful Don with Megan.


I don't think Don's changed at all. His relationship with Megan began while he was seeing another woman. He engaged to Megan, then had to call his girlfriend to break up with her! During season 5 he might not have cheated on Megan, but instead he did things like abandon her at Hojo's and chase her around the apartment like a lunatic when she had the nerve to go home. He was only happy when Megan was in the very tiny box he wanted her in, either working at his side and under his control or home being the barefoot housewife. Don wanted to change because the thinks this is his chance at his perfect life, his fairytale. Instead, he gave Megan her fairytale, she is beauty and he returns to being the beast.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Zevida said:


> I don't think Don's changed at all. His relationship with Megan began while he was seeing another woman. He engaged to Megan, then had to call his girlfriend to break up with her! During season 5 he might not have cheated on Megan, but instead he did things like abandon her at Hojo's and chase her around the apartment like a lunatic when she had the nerve to go home. He was only happy when Megan was in the very tiny box he wanted her in, either working at his side and under his control or home being the barefoot housewife. Don wanted to change because the thinks this is his chance at his perfect life, his fairytale. Instead, he gave Megan her fairytale, she is beauty and he returns to being the beast.


So you don't think Megan is teaching Don how to deal with conflict and disappointment in a more mature manner. When she is unhappy with something, she tells him right away and he shortly thereafter has respected her for it. Yes you listed some bad stuff but what was his approach after the fallout from that bad stuff. I say he is getting better each day at dealing with stuff. He is not Mr. perfect yet but he has improved a lot.

Betty is the one that has changed little and is still trying to game play.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I think Don's gotten better about manipulating Megan and turning her attention away from her anger at him and making her sympathetic to him. We got two stark examples of that in the last few episodes. One was when Megan was angry about being left alone with Sally. Megan started to lay into him and Don said "I had to fire Lane" and Megan immediately switched into good little housewife mode - to the point of pulling him along by the hand to go have family dinner. The anger Megan has never again gets addressed.

She is put in a very childlike position in their relationship - she pouted, threw a fit and so he gave in and gave her what she wanted (the commercial). They are far from equals, just a different type of relationship than the one with Betty. It might be more open but it's not more mature.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

zalusky said:


> So you don't think Megan is teaching Don how to deal with conflict and disappointment in a more mature manner. When she is unhappy with something, she tells him right away and he shortly thereafter has respected her for it. Yes you listed some bad stuff but what was his approach after the fallout from that bad stuff. I say he is getting better each day at dealing with stuff. He is not Mr. perfect yet but he has improved a lot.
> 
> Betty is the one that has changed little and is still trying to game play.


Megan threw a plate of spaghetti against the wall. Is that an example of how she's teaching Don the proper way to deal with conflict?

BTW, I like Megan and I liked Don a lot more this year when he appeared to be in a happy relationship. I'd love it if their relationship continued and Don remained faithful. However, I'm skeptical that it will happen.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

Don is SO incredibly different with Megan than with Betty. They talk about issues (even if it's screaming) and come to resolutions. With Betty it was Don's way, period. 

I'm not sure how you can watch the show from the start and not say Don hasn't grown.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I agree that Don has acted different this year. I just don't see it as growth, more of an offshoot. He and Megan are behaving and interacting differently than he and Betty did, but the result is by and large the same. Don gets his way. The end, to me, signaled that when Don didn't get his way (Megan doing the commercial) he went right back to old Don - drinking in a bar alone and picking up women.

He tried hard this year to grow. I don't think he was successful. The ending at the bar was just open enough that they could write their way into him remaining faithful and turning into a happy, loving husband, but I don't think they will.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Bryanmc said:


> Don is SO incredibly different with Megan than with Betty. They talk about issues (even if it's screaming) and come to resolutions. With Betty it was Don's way, period.
> 
> I'm not sure how you can watch the show from the start and not say Don hasn't grown.


He definitely WAS different. When we saw him at the beginning of the season and he'd already told Megan about Dick Whitman and they seemed to have such an open, honest relationship, we thought it signified significant growth on the part of Don. But as the season progressed, we saw that façade slowly fall apart. Don got pissy when Megan hosted a birthday party and basically did a burlesque show for all his colleagues. Megan showed her jealousy when a woman hit on Don in the elevator. Don grew frustrated with Megan when she didn't like orange sherbet. Megan quit the firm to follow her dreams. Don had a fever-induced fantasy dream of cheating and then strangling the woman. Megan threw a plate of food against the wall. Don chased Megan around the apartment like a lunatic. Megan manipulated Don into getting her an acting job through nepotism.

I'll bet that if we could go back in time 12-15 years to the first year of Don's marriage to Betty, we'd see that he was much different back then as well, but as time wore on and the newness of the relationship wore off and the reality of married life set in, Don's real character came out and he turned into a Dick (pun intended).


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

More on symbolism - each time Don has let Megan go a little bit more we've had ominous symbolism.

Megan left SCDP and Don tried to go after her only to be greeted by an elevator shaft.

Megan starred in the commercial Don got her and he walked away from her bright and glittery lights into the darkness.

These are not positive and happy signs. Don was only happy when Megan was by his side. The more she goes out on her own, the greater the divide between them and the more Don is lured into the darkness.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

+1 to Zevida and Devdog. I think the point of that last scene was to show that after all Don's been through this season, at his core he hasn't changed. He's still the same ol' dog.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

I disagree. I put my money on Don staying faithful. Who wants to make it interesting?


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Bryanmc said:


> I disagree. I put my money on Don staying faithful. Who wants to make it interesting?


The show won't be very interesting if Don turns into Ward Cleaver.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

tivoboyjr said:


> The show won't be very interesting if Don turns into Ward Cleaver.


There's a BIG difference between remaining faithful and turning into Ward Cleaver...


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

tivoboyjr said:


> The show won't be very interesting if Don turns into Ward Cleaver.


I absolutely agree, but it also wouldn't be very interersting if he's the exact same as he was in episode 1. I think his new struggle is going to be fighting the temptations of his old life while trying to figure out his current one.

Now that the honeymoon period is over, is he going to cut and run or work on staying with his wife? We've seen Don the cad, sleeping around on Betty. We've seen single Don where he's free to live it up and he makes some dark, bad decisions. We've seen content and faithful Don with Megan. I don't think we're going back to square one with him. I think he's lost (or is losing) that contentment and we are going to see the impact of that coupled with his love for Megan and wanting to try and be a better man.

THAT would be some interesting, not yet seen, storytelling with Don Draper versus "hey, I recognize this guy from season 1".


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Bryanmc said:


> I absolutely agree, but it also wouldn't be very interersting if he's the exact same as he was in episode 1. I think his new struggle is going to be fighting the temptations of his old life while trying to figure out his current one.
> 
> Now that the honeymoon period is over, is he going to cut and run or work on staying with his wife? We've seen Don the cad, sleeping around on Betty. We've seen single Don where he's free to live it up and he makes some dark, bad decisions. We've seen content and faithful Don with Megan. I don't think we're going back to square one with him. I think he's lost (or is losing) that contentment and we are going to see the impact of that coupled with his love for Megan and wanting to try and be a better man.
> 
> THAT would be some interesting, not yet seen, storytelling with Don Draper versus "hey, I recognize this guy from season 1".


:up:

I am also going to think that he will be faithful, but struggling inside and wanting to do what is right for their marriage. All marriages have bumps. Don is never going to be Ward Cleaver and just being faithful doesn't mean there won't be temptations or fights. I am also hoping that now that Megan is made a commercial, she will ease up a bit and they can communicate with each other better.

But, really who knows? Maybe we come back to find Megan filming in California on a new tv show and Don in the apartment by himself.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

I think part of the Megan/Don relationship has to do with the growth of women in the late '60s. Don is learning to cope with a woman who doesn't aspire to be June Cleaver. She is being more assertive and wants her own fulfilling career. Don has issues with all of this, but when Megan holds her ground, Don eventually sees the light.

Yes, Don has grown as a person, but some times backsliding is part of that process. As much as I want Don to remain faithful to Megan, I suspect that will not be the case. I mean he still is Don Draper and they still need to make an interesting show.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

I find it curious that so many people feel that Don has to be a womanizing cad for the show to be "interesting". With Don's past, I'm finding him being faithful _incredibly_ interesting.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I don't think anyone has mentioned the conversation between Megan and her mom where we found out Megan can't have kids. Will that ever become an issue between them? The way it was revealed you have to expect it will, but I'd be surprised if Don wants more kids.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Bryanmc said:


> I find it curious that so many people feel that Don has to be a womanizing cad for the show to be "interesting". With Don's past, I'm finding him being faithful _incredibly_ interesting.


I don't think him being unfaithful would be interesting, because he has already done it. I hope the show doesn't rehash the old habits. He can still be faithful to Megan and yet have controversy and not be boring.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> I don't think anyone has mentioned the conversation between Megan and her mom where we found out Megan can't have kids. Will that ever become an issue between them? The way it was revealed you have to expect it will, but I'd be surprised if Don wants more kids.


Didn't Don make a comment about wanting more kids after the dinner party at Pete's? I'll have to go back and watch that scene in the car.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Bryanmc said:


> Didn't Don make a comment about wanting more kids after the dinner party at Pete's? I'll have to go back and watch that scene in the car.


I think he did say something about kids in that scene, and her response was, "That's impossible." But it wasn't clear to me that he actually wanted kids. It seemed to just be a playful way of asking for sex.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

There are only two seasons left!

There are plenty of interesting stories for Don without replaying boozing and cheating.
For example his whole identity issue could become public and he might have to go to jail. He could get lung cancer! His partners could kick him to the curb! He could simply leave the advertising world and change identities again!


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Since we discussing what might happen in the future, lets Talk about Dow Chemical for a minute.

Clearly when they were in the meeting Ray Wise had no interest whatsoever in considering the agency, but it seemed like the "henchmen" in the room were liking what Don had to say. Does anyone think that they have a chance at landing Dow in the future? If nothing else it would setup some nice conflict between Cosgrove and Campbell.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

I suspect that there's going to be a need for them to pursue Dow or another large client in the new season.

Right now they've landed Jaguar. In 1967. That's not a great time for that, since Jaguar will merge with Leyland in 1968, and I suspect SCDP will get nudged out in the reshuffle.

Similarly, this who "commission vs. fees" issue which nobody but Lane showed interest in (or understanding thereof)? That was a large factor in the end of the "Mad Men" era, and I suspect the company's revenues will get challenged.

Between those reasons, and the drama they've set up between Pete and Ken, I expect that they'll pursue Dow. And that Ken will be a more significant person in the plots.

But it's all guesses....


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Bryanmc said:


> I find it curious that so many people feel that Don has to be a womanizing cad for the show to be "interesting". With Don's past, I'm finding him being faithful incredibly interesting.


As we are debating this, Don is having a threesome with the two young ladies from the bar.



betts4 said:


> I don't think him being unfaithful would be interesting, because he has already done it. I hope the show doesn't rehash the old habits. He can still be faithful to Megan and yet have controversy and not be boring.


Don was faithful for a whole season. Him continuing to be faithful and continuing with Megan would be been there, done that.

I'm not saying we need a repeat of season one. I'm saying we don't need a repeat of season five.



zalusky said:


> There are plenty of interesting stories for Don without replaying boozing and cheating.
> For example his whole identity issue could become public and he might have to go to jail. He could get lung cancer! His partners could kick him to the curb! He could simply leave the advertising world and change identities again!


Don doesnt have to be faithful or married to Megan for those other things to happen.

Given the way the commercial scene was shot, with him walking away (and ending up in the bar getting an indecent proposal) I wouldn't be surprised if the marriage is over at the start of next season - or soon thereafter.

I agree Don needs some new challenges. He won't get them with Megan. For all of the promise this relationship had at the beginning, by the end of the season, Megan was nothing more than Betty 2.0. Don needed to move on.

Plus, Megan as a character is no longer interesting and I think she has run her course. She's become the 2nd most important person on the show in terms of screen time, and she isn't the 2nd most important (or interesting, to put it another way) person on the show. Not even close.

Also, I've always thought Don and Joan would end up together. If that's going to happen, it has to start sometime.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> I don't think anyone has mentioned the conversation between Megan and her mom where we found out Megan can't have kids. Will that ever become an issue between them? The way it was revealed you have to expect it will, but I'd be surprised if Don wants more kids.


Are we sure it's "can't"? I'm not going to rewatch to check, but I thought her mom was berating Megan because she *wouldn't* give him more kids.

If it is "can't" have we speculated as to why? Botched abortion?


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Did anyone notice whether Don was wearing his wedding ring in the bar?


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Robin said:


> Are we sure it's "can't"? I'm not going to rewatch to check, but I thought her mom was berating Megan because she *wouldn't* give him more kids.
> 
> If it is "can't" have we speculated as to why? Botched abortion?


Yeah, I don't remember it being "not able" to have kids, I thought her mom was just telling her she should give Don a family. I do remember Megan saying "that's impossible" when Don propositioned her in the car about making a baby.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Robin said:


> Are we sure it's "can't"? I'm not going to rewatch to check, but I thought her mom was berating Megan because she *wouldn't* give him more kids.
> 
> If it is "can't" have we speculated as to why? Botched abortion?





Zevida said:


> Yeah, I don't remember it being "not able" to have kids, I thought her mom was just telling her she should give Don a family. I do remember Megan saying "that's impossible" when Don propositioned her in the car about making a baby.


Re the Megan and mom discussion, I thought it was along the lines of "you won't give him children" or "you need to give him children." I don't remember it being that she "can't."


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

tivoboyjr said:


> Re the Megan and mom discussion, I thought it was along the lines of "you won't give him children" or "you need to give him children." I don't remember it being that she "can't."


Same here.

Also to interject on the Don conversation. I say he's back to his old ways because as has been said over and over, Don only likes the beginning of things. Megan was the perfect wife. She was an ad ace; his equal. The minute she stopped being all that was the minute the countdown to his cheating began, IMO. As my mother has told me my entire life and it holds true, a leopard cannot change its spots.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

photoshopgrl said:


> Same here.
> 
> Also to interject on the Don conversation. I say he's back to his old ways because as has been said over and over, Don only likes the beginning of things. Megan was the perfect wife. She was an ad ace; his equal. The minute she stopped being all that was the minute the countdown to his cheating began, IMO. As my mother has told me my entire life and it holds true, a leopard cannot change its spots.


Agree with everything you said and add what my mother told me "once a cheater always a cheater"


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

tiams said:


> Agree with everything you said and add what my mother told me "once a cheater always a cheater"


I learned that by watching Friends.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Robin said:


> I learned that by watching Friends.


They were on a break!


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

Robin said:


> Are we sure it's "can't"? I'm not going to rewatch to check, but I thought her mom was berating Megan because she *wouldn't* give him more kids.
> 
> If it is "can't" have we speculated as to why? Botched abortion?


I watched the scene again, and the subtitle used the word "won't".


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