# Tivo wins!!



## tivosnoopy (Jan 20, 2004)

Tivo has won its case against Echostar - i wonder if this means tivo will have the cash to enter the UK market again?  

Can't post links yet but the info is on the engaget site.


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## tjbw (Feb 15, 2004)

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/266642_tivo14.html

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aBDSbv99aDpY&refer=news_index

Barry


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## robertivo (Dec 29, 2002)

Function over style wins.

Excellent news


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## frogster (Jan 4, 2006)

It ain't over till the fat judge sings (in the appeal court).


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## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

tivosnoopy said:


> Tivo has won its case against Echostar - i wonder if this means tivo will have the cash to enter the UK market again?


What would be nice is if TiVo could finally do a deal with Murdoch/Sky/NDS and give you poor long suffering UKTiVoites a decent, modern TiVo box.

But I doubt the cash alone from this trial would suffice to lure TiVo back into the UK. Maybe if things really pick up with new licensing fees, TiVo could afford it.


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## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

dmdeane said:


> What would be nice is if TiVo could finally do a deal with Murdoch/Sky/NDS and give you poor long suffering UKTiVoites a decent, modern TiVo box.


I wonder exactly what defines a "TiVo"

Is it the hardware

Is it the firmware eg the operating system

Is it the software eg the listings.

IMHO, whilst the Tivo that I have embodies all three of the above the true value of TiVo lies in the operating system and listings.

SKY+ sort of does what people want from a new TiVo in that it has twin tuners and most of the time it does what it is meant to do. What SKY+ desparately needs is a decent user interface and listings.

Before all the TiVo modders start about networking etc, yes that would be nice but not essential. My TiVo is still unhacked because its WAF was so high that my life would not have been worth living if I had broken it !!!


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

katman said:


> Is it the firmware eg the operating system. Is it the software eg the listings.


As far as I know it's these two


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

Definately hardware and software - I'd say the chosen OS (which is Linux) is debatable as any other OS could do the job just as well, just not as cheap (free).

There is custom ASIC hardware present in all TiVos (the TiVo Media Switch) and it's this IP that has been the basis for the recent Echostar court case.

The Media Switch that allows a device based on a 50Mhz CPU to encode and decode analogue video real time while still having sufficient spare cycles to run the GUI and schedule new programmes.


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## kmusgrave (Oct 13, 2000)

katman said:


> What SKY+ desparately needs is a decent user interface and listings.


I actually prefer the Sky+ interface to Tivo's. If they were to add the extra functionality that Tivo has (proper search, etc) it would be ideal.

If you want to look at a bad user interface, look at the new TvDrive from Telewest - its appalling (and has more bugs that Sky+ ever had


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

kmusgrave said:


> I actually prefer the Sky+ interface to Tivo's.


Well, that must be a first

I acquired a $ky+ the other day for "research" purposes and I have to say I was quite shocked at how crude it is. I particularly liked the way the equivalent of the Now Playing List is buried at the bottom of the EPG page and has to be accessed by pressing the green button! :down::down::down:

Sorry, what is it you prefer about the Sky+ UI?


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## Tony Hoyle (Apr 1, 2002)

I had a play with the Sky EPG.. never looked at it much before.

It truncates the programme titles, had no series or OAD data so you have no idea which episode you're looking at... and series links don't seem to work on half the channels. Plus the A-Z search is nearly useless.

What I can't believe is that people cope with this on a daily basis...


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## Kadoogan (Dec 5, 2004)

The Sky EPG is awful compared to Tivo. It's one of the reasons I got my Tivo repaired a while back rather than go the Sky+ route.

One of the things I love is the fact you can set the Tivo guide to display only your favourite channels. You can have a relatively small guide, just displaying the channels you actually watch rather than having to wade through all the rubbish shopping, travel channels etc as you do with the Sky guide.

I had to spend a few weeks using the Sky guide when my Tivo wasn't working, and when it was away for repair. I can't now believe I ever even considered switching to Sky+.

Jason.


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## frogster (Jan 4, 2006)

Kadoogan said:


> One of the things I love is the fact you can set the Tivo guide to display only your favourite channels. You can have a relatively small guide, just displaying the channels you actually watch rather than having to wade through all the rubbish shopping, travel channels etc as you do with the Sky guide.


The Sky EPG can do this now.


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## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

I have a SKY+ as well now and the GUI is totally useless. On top of that the box crashes far too frequently.

If you think the truncated program info is bad enough just wait until it is recording something and you press the "I" button. It displays a message that "synopsis is not available whilst recording two programs"

The other day I wanted to record something on Radio 2 which prior to SKY messing up the numbers and rendering TiVo useless for radio recording I would have done on Tivo.

I had to look up on the web when the program was on as there is no Radio station info on SKY+, I then manually set up a recording at which point it told me it would clash with Hill Street Blues so I told it to cancel that.

I mistakenly though it would pick up the repeat early the following morning or the More+1 showing an hour later but even if it didnt I wasnt worried to much about missing one episode. IT CANCELLED THE SERIES LINK 

When I noticed this having missed 3 episodes I set it up to record again. I tried to set up the series link and it told me that the info wasnt available so "try later". Went back to watching SKY. Changed channels and it told me there was a fault with the channel. Tried several others and it told me the same. Tried to go back to what I had been watching and that wasnt available either. Checked the signal strength for both LNB inputs and it said they were fine for strength and quality. REBOOT TIME 

I have resisted the temptation to hack my TiVo until now because of the fear of breaking it and because it was used constantly but I have now had almost 5 months of SKY+ and its quirks and am now going to upgrade my TiVo because it is just so user freindly and reliable.


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## frogster (Jan 4, 2006)

katman said:


> The other day I wanted to record something on Radio 2 which prior to SKY messing up the numbers and rendering TiVo useless for radio recording I would have done on Tivo.


There is a fix for this which works fine.


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

frogster said:


> There is a fix for this which works fine.


 Not for an unhacked TiVo


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

Raisltin Majere said:


> Not for an unhacked TiVo


You do not need to hack TiVo to record Sky Radio.


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

Yes you do if you want to record it in stereo (unless I'm mistaken and RF carries stero sound?)


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## 10203 (Nov 11, 2001)

RF can carry NICAM...! Thinking about I'm not sure why radio via RF would be in mono, unless it's a feature of $ky boxes..?


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

Because NICAM encoders are very expensive, whereas NICAM decoders are cheap.


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## 10203 (Nov 11, 2001)

I knew there was something obvious I was forgetting


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## DeadKenny (Nov 9, 2002)

dmdeane said:


> What would be nice is if TiVo could finally do a deal with Murdoch/Sky/NDS and give you poor long suffering UKTiVoites a decent, modern TiVo box.


Nice dream. Won't happen.

The only way an official Sky/TiVo could happen is if the broadcasting authorities/watchdogs force Murdoch to open up and allow the use of a Sky decoder in a TiVo box without the use of the Sky software.

Actually the only other way I can see something happening is with a deal between Murdoch and Microsoft. Microsoft have enough power to make it necessary for Murdoch's equipment in the US to support Windows MCE and that might roll over to Sky+ HD supporting MCE in the UK. Would be some kind of DRM protected deal sending encrypted HD signals over HDMI to MCE I bet.

Still doesn't help TiVo.


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## SteveA (Oct 30, 2000)

kitschcamp said:


> Because NICAM encoders are very expensive, whereas NICAM decoders are cheap.


There used to be a firm that sold a relatively cheap NICAM encoder board, but I can't find them for sale now.

I have found this: http://www.spectra-bv.nl/nicam.html

they say it is "low cost", but don't mention the cost (or anywhere you can buy it!)


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