# Bolt +, no HDR?



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

Bought a Bolt + (6 tuner cable only, the old 3TB black model). It's on TE3. There is no HDR setting at all, only video setting. Is this normal for TE3 Bolt? Or maybe the really old models like the Bolt +? I also tried watching some movies on a streaming service. There is no 4K setting for the service either when connected to this Bolt, only HDX 1080P or SD 480P. I suppose I could try changing it to TE4 to see if it makes a difference. My one other Bolt (4 tuner OTA or cable) version is on TE4 and has the HDR setting, auto or off. And the streaming service I can choose SD, HDX or UHD (4K). The movies I am trying to watch on the Bolt + are 4K but will only play 1080P, they play in 4K on my TE4 Bolt as they should.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

TE3 does not know 4k.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

JoeKustra said:


> TE3 does not know 4k.


That is interesting. When Bolt came out it was advertised as 4K capable. There was no TE4 at the time. So what was the 4K advertising about?


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

tommage1 said:


> That is interesting. When Bolt came out it was advertised as 4K capable. There was no TE4 at the time. So what was the 4K advertising about?


Bolts can do 4K QAM broadcast and recording of it, even with TE3, they are 4K capable in that regard.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

dianebrat said:


> Bolts can do 4K QAM broadcast and recording of it, even with TE3, they are 4K capable in that regard.


I see. Gosh very little QAM 4K broadcasting even now, I certainly don't get any. I guess they were preparing for a future that never happened, at least recordings wise. Don't think I've ever seen a Comcast 4K broadcast, this Bolt is cable only. I'll just use the other Bolt for the minimal 4K streaming I do, keep this one on TE3. I think best you can get with Comcast now is compressed 720P.


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## KevTech (Apr 15, 2014)

Setting is TE4 only on Bolt.
Tivo Customer Support Community


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

tommage1 said:


> I see. Gosh very little QAM 4K broadcasting even now, I certainly don't get any. I guess they were preparing for a future that never happened, at least recordings wise. Don't think I've ever seen a Comcast 4K broadcast, this Bolt is cable only. I'll just use the other Bolt for the minimal 4K streaming I do, keep this one on TE3. I think best you can get with Comcast now is compressed 720P.


From what I understand, Comcast does not do 4K QAM, but Verizon FiOS has 2 channels dedicated to it and while I rarely see them active, there have been intermittent Fox presentations on them, I recorded a bit of a NASCAR race a while back in 4K, it was pretty impressive over the normal Fox 720 presentation.


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## KevTech (Apr 15, 2014)

dianebrat said:


> From what I understand, Comcast does not do 4K QAM


4K Sports Available on Xfinity X1
4K on Xfinity: What's New and How to Watch
Works on Tivo too not just the X1 boxes.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

KevTech said:


> 4K Sports Available on Xfinity X1
> 4K on Xfinity: What's New and How to Watch
> Works on Tivo too not just the X1 boxes.


What channels on Xfinity are broadcast in 4K that you can watch on a TiVo? I am fairly certain there are none.


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## KevTech (Apr 15, 2014)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> What channels on Xfinity are broadcast in 4K that you can watch on a TiVo? I am fairly certain there are none.


Guess you did not check the links but it is mostly sports.
Last year I was watching Thursday Night Football on FOX in 4K on Tivo.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

KevTech said:


> Guess you did not check the links but it is mostly sports.
> Last year I was watching Thursday Night Football on FOX in 4K on Tivo.
> 
> View attachment 60110
> ...


I did click them but do not recall ever seeing 4K content on Xfinity aside from on demand.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

KevTech said:


> Guess you did not check the links but it is mostly sports.
> Last year I was watching Thursday Night Football on FOX in 4K on Tivo.
> 
> View attachment 60110
> ...


Great. Good way to test my Bolts, both the TE3 and TE4. Since even a TE3 Bolt should be able to record a QAM 4K program, if like you said it is QAM, works on Tivo. The 6/6 show I will setup right now. Will be interesting to see how much hard drive space it uses.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

It's strange, I looked at my guide for FS1 (237 channel number, FS1HD) for 6/6. At first it was not showing the broadcast, had some other show. Then it did. So I setup a recording. Comcast also has FS1 HD on 1208. I heard in the past Comcast may have setup those numbers in the thousands for possible 4K future. So I setup 1208 also, wonder if it will record both, they both show up in my "to do" list. If it does will compare how much drive space each uses. What is weird though is I look at "other showings" for the broadcast. None show for 237 or 1208. Shows on FS1 channels 95 and 400 only. And those channels do not even exist. So will be interesting to see what happens. This is around Chicago.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

I read some 4K info on Comcast site. I assume the 4K sports broadcasts are live events. And it says this:

*"Can I record live events in 4K?*
No, live events in 4K cannot be recorded."

So not sure what will happen with that NASCAR event on 6/6. Mentions if you are watching in HD (which 237 and 1208 FS1 are supposed to be), something pops up and you have to hit a button to get to the 4K version:

*"How to Get 4K UHD and 4K UHD/HDR with Xfinity*
4K UHD and 4K UHD/HDR viewing is currently available to Xfinity X1 and Xfinity Flex customers.

You can use your Xfinity Voice Remote to say "4K" or search "4K" to be taken to the Experience 4K UHD on X1 landing page that displays all 4K viewing options on X1 and Flex.

When your X1 TV Box is set up, it will automatically be set to the highest video output resolution possible for your TV, including 4K UHD. The best way to determine whether you can watch in 4K is to say "Device Settings" into the Xfinity Voice Remote and then select "Video Display." Across the top of that page will be three icons that identify 4K capability in both the TV Box and the TV. If the setup supports 4K, select "Video Output Resolution" to confirm the device is set to the best available resolution. Upon selecting, you should get a prompt to confirm the resolution. Select *Yes* and the device settings will be saved and 4K content will now play.

If you want to manually change your video resolution after setup, you can do so from the Settings menu. Also, if you choose to view On Demand content (for free, rental or purchase) that's available in 4K, playback will automatically default to the appropriate 4K color depth based on your TV's capabilities.

If you're currently watching a show in HD, but it's available in 4K, you'll see a notification on the top right of your screen: "Good news! This program is available in pixel-perfect 4K Ultra HD."

You can press *Info *to go to the 4K version."

I'm kind of guessing this is not going to work with Tivo but we shall see. Maybe the 4K versions are not QAM. Maybe when I checked "other showings" and it showed those FS1 channels that do not seem to exist (95 and 400) that is where it takes you when you click the info button to go to the 4K version.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

Nope, no 4K on TE3 Bolt. And nothing pops up saying it is available. For the supposed 4K 6/6/2021 NASCAR broadcast on FS1, Comcast, 3PM Central.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

tommage1 said:


> Nope, no 4K on TE3 Bolt. And nothing pops up saying it is available. For the supposed 4K 6/6/2021 NASCAR broadcast on FS1, Comcast, 3PM Central.


I'm getting it on channel 1499 with Verizon. (My guide data is wrong. It says it is on channel 1498 while the content is on channel 1499.) My TiVo shows up as 2160P and my Samsung TV shows up as 3840X2160/60P UHD HDR. This is the first time I've seen 4K on this TV and this TiVo! And it is TE3.

Edit: Oddly enough, there is no content available using the Verizon supplied 4100 STB.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

tommage1 said:


> Nope, no 4K on TE3 Bolt. And nothing pops up saying it is available. For the supposed 4K 6/6/2021 NASCAR broadcast on FS1, Comcast, 3PM Central.


Worked just fine here on Verizon FiOS on a TE3 Bolt as expected.

I still question Comcast doing 4K QAM vs handing it off to 4K over IP for the X1 boxes, so far @KevTech is the only person suggesting that you can get it on a TE3 Bolt so I would defer to him as to if it worked today.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

dianebrat said:


> Worked just fine here on Verizon FiOS on a TE3 Bolt as expected.
> 
> I still question Comcast doing 4K QAM vs handing it off to 4K over IP for the X1 boxes, so far @KevTech is the only person suggesting that you can get it on a TE3 Bolt so I would defer to him as to if it worked today.


Were you able to record it? If so would be interested to hear how much space it used for how many hours (I guess 3.5 hours with no padding?) With TE3 should be able to see space used. Can even see TE4 space used, IF you view the recording details through a TE3 Tivo. If the guide was wrong (like for user pl1) would have to setup a manual recording I guess, 1499 for pl1. Guess there is another NASCAR 4K next week, could try recording if did not this time.

Yeah Comcast seems funny to me for the 4K. I was only able to try with TE3 Bolt as my TE4 Bolt is setup OTA. Comcast claims cannot record live 4K broadcasts even on their own equipment. Was curious to see if could watch but somehow not be able to record. But was able to do neither on TE3, well could watch/record in normal 720P Comcast FS1. Could be right about Comcast handing off to IP, the channel guide for that broadcast was screwy, kept changing, sometimes to channels that do not seem to exist for me (maybe IP only channels). No biggie, very little Comcast 4K broadcast anyway, just wanted to test.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

Would also be interesting to see what would happen if were able to record the 4K broadcast on a Bolt. Then try transferring to a 1080P Tivo, like a Roamio. Should not be able to do it, wonder if there would be some sort of message. Like trying to transfer an HD recording to an S2, can't be done.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

pl1 said:


> I'm getting it on channel 1499 with Verizon. (My guide data is wrong. It says it is on channel 1498 while the content is on channel 1499.) My TiVo shows up as 2160P and my Samsung TV shows up as 3840X2160/60P UHD HDR. This is the first time I've seen 4K on this TV and this TiVo! And it is TE3.
> 
> Edit: Oddly enough, there is no content available using the Verizon supplied 4100 STB.


I'm assuming your Bolt is on TE4? Since your TV shows HDR UHD, there is no HDR setting for Bolt on TE3. Did you record it? If so, do you have another Tivo on TE3? If so you could view the info for the recorded show on the TE4 Bolt through the TE3 Tivo and see how much recording space it used. If you did not record maybe try recording the next Sunday 4K event. If your guide is wrong would have to setup manual recording for channel 1499.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

dianebrat said:


> Worked just fine here on Verizon FiOS on a TE3 Bolt as expected.


Did you happen to look at the diagnostics screen for the 4K broadcast/channel? Would be interesting to see what format it says. Comcast is almost all compressed H.264 720P. Used to be MPEG2, and whatever the resolution for the channel was (usually 720P to 1080i for the HD channels). Wonder what it would be for a 4K broadcast?


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

tommage1 said:


> Did you happen to look at the diagnostics screen for the 4K broadcast/channel? Would be interesting to see what format it says. Comcast is almost all compressed H.264 720P. Used to be MPEG2, and whatever the resolution for the channel was (usually 720P to 1080i for the HD channels). Wonder what it would be for a 4K broadcast?


Nope, I have no interest in digging that deep other than it was 2160 HLG HDR, and while I could record it, I chose not to this time.
But as the other poster said, they flipped 1498 and 1499 so there was no guide data, not a huge deal since it's the only thing I've seen up thereon the 4K channels in ages.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Verizon's 4K broadcasts are h.265, and the bitrate is usually around 21mbps.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

tommage1 said:


> I'm assuming your Bolt is on TE4? Since your TV shows HDR UHD, there is no HDR setting for Bolt on TE3. Did you record it? If so, do you have another Tivo on TE3? If so you could view the info for the recorded show on the TE4 Bolt through the TE3 Tivo and see how much recording space it used. If you did not record maybe try recording the next Sunday 4K event. If your guide is wrong would have to setup manual recording for channel 1499.


My Bolt Vox is on TE3. I will try to record it this weekend if it shows up again.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

Here is a long ongoing discussion on dslreports.com that may answer a lot of your questions including those using TiVo.
FiOS Linear 4K Discussion - Verizon FiOS TV | DSLReports Forums


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

pl1 said:


> Here is a long ongoing discussion on dslreports.com that may answer a lot of your questions including those using TiVo.
> FiOS Linear 4K Discussion - Verizon FiOS TV | DSLReports Forums


Some very good info, even the diagnostics screen for a Tivo. Shows QAM 256 and MPEG2? Still would like to see how much recording space it takes up per hour, not sure how to get that number from a bit rate. Older HD MPEG2 720P and 1080i on Comcast were 5-10+ GB per hour. I'd have to guess if this 4K broadcast is really MPEG2 as the Tivo diagnostics screen shows for channel 1499 it would be a LOT higher, maybe in the 20s or more. Per hour, so for 3.5 hours maybe 70-100GB+?


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

pl1 said:


> My Bolt Vox is on TE3. I will try to record it this weekend if it shows up again.


Sounds good, the DSL discussion mentions channel 1499 only becomes available during the 4K broadcast. So would have to setup manual recording or hit the record button while watching, if you can even record. Maybe check the diagnostics screen too, see if it confirms the picture in the DSL discussion, MPEG2 QAM 256. Not sure when that picture was taken, things may have changed? Won't do me much good since this is Verizon, I can't seem to get it on Comcast with Tivo. However it still interests me as informational


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

tommage1 said:


> Sounds good, the DSL discussion mentions channel 1499 only becomes available during the 4K broadcast. So would have to setup manual recording or hit the record button while watching, if you can even record. Maybe check the diagnostics screen too, see if it confirms the picture in the DSL discussion, MPEG2 QAM 256. Not sure when that picture was taken, things may have changed? Won't do me much good since this is Verizon, I can't seem to get it on Comcast with Tivo. However it still interests me as informational


Oops, looks like the picture of the Tivo diagnostics screen is for what shows up on the channel as pre-event "advertisement", not the actual 4K broadcast. So as "BigJim" says probably H.265, not MPEG2. If bitrate 21 mbps about 9 GB per hour recording space. About the same as when MPEG2 720p and 1080i.


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## KevTech (Apr 15, 2014)

dianebrat said:


> so far @KevTech is the only person suggesting that you can get it on a TE3 Bolt


I never said I was on TE3.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

tommage1 said:


> Oops, looks like the picture of the Tivo diagnostics screen is for what shows up on the channel as pre-event "advertisement", not the actual 4K broadcast. So as "BigJim" says probably H.265, not MPEG2. If bitrate 21 mbps about 9 GB per hour recording space. About the same as when MPEG2 720p and 1080i.


I just recorded 1 hour and it used 9.67 GB. From what I understand, commercials are not 4K so that may affect it too.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

Thanks for checking. Sounds like "BigJim" was spot on with broadcast type and bit rate


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

pl1 said:


> I just recorded 1 hour and it used 9.67 GB. From what I understand, commercials are not 4K so that may affect it too.


If you are interested might be able to check if commercials are 4K. Just hit the Tivo info screen while a commercial is playing (or check diagnostics screen?) It is nice can record the 4K broadcasts with Verizon, Comcast specifically says CANNOT record the 4K live events. And I can't get at all with Tivo, Comcast 4K may be IP channels only.

Will be interesting to see what happens with ATSC 3.0 for OTA. Perhaps uncompressed 4K, maybe over 20GB per hour. Doubt will ever know with a Tivo, certainly not any current model.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

tommage1 said:


> If you are interested might be able to check if commercials are 4K. Just hit the Tivo info screen while a commercial is playing (or check diagnostics screen?) It is nice can record the 4K broadcasts with Verizon, Comcast specifically says CANNOT record the 4K live events. And I can't get at all with Tivo, Comcast 4K may be IP channels only.
> 
> Will be interesting to see what happens with ATSC 3.0 for OTA. Perhaps uncompressed 4K, maybe over 20GB per hour. Doubt will ever know with a Tivo, certainly not any current model.


Here is something interesting, you can not view the recording with the TiVo mini. (Which could be because I do not have a 4K TV, or that the Mini can't do 4K, or both.) It's just a black screen with audio.

Anyway, checking with my main TiVo Bolt, everything shows 4K during the playback of commercials as far as I can tell. Info on Tivo shows 2160P, System Info shows current output 4K, and my Samsung TV shows 3840x2160 /60P HDR UHD.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

pl1 said:


> Here is something interesting, you can not view the recording with the TiVo mini. (Which could be because I do not have a 4K TV, or that the Mini can't do 4K, or both.) It's just a black screen with audio.
> 
> Anyway, checking with my main TiVo Bolt, everything shows 4K during the playback of commercials as far as I can tell. Info on Tivo shows 2160P, System Info shows current output 4K, and my Samsung TV shows 3840x2160 /60P HDR UHD.


Yeah, if the Tivo info shows 2160P should be 4K. What the TV itself shows is not necessarily a valid test as the Tivo is probably upconverting to 4K anyway. So TV would probably show 4K for even 720/1080 shows. Though not sure would show HDR/UHD, maybe just 3840x2160 for the upconverted 720/1080.

Do you have an older Tivo that is not 4K (like a Roamio?). Would be interesting to see what would happen if you tried transferring the Bolt 4K recording to a non 4K Tivo. If it would not let you, some sort of message, or if it would transfer and just not work, maybe the black screen.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

tommage1 said:


> Do you have an older Tivo that is not 4K (like a Roamio?). Would be interesting to see what would happen if you tried transferring the Bolt 4K recording to a non 4K Tivo. If it would not let you, some sort of message, or if it would transfer and just not work, maybe the black screen.


It let me transfer it to a Roamio. When you start playing from the Roamio you get a black screen with audio only. Just like the mini.

EDIT: I think the magic ingredient is that the Bolt decodes HEVC
EDIT: 4K decode: Yes - HEVC/VP9


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

It is interesting it lets you transfer. With an S2 when you look at HD recordings on an S3 and up you get a red X, says cannot transfer due to format. I wonder if after transferring to a Roamio (or Premiere) you could transfer back to the Bolt (or an Edge) and it would work correctly? If so if there were ever enough 4K recordings to care about could store on an older Tivo and transfer back (or maybe stream) to/through the Bolt or Edge. Wish I could get a 4K recording with Comcast but seems that is impossible.


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