# What if ... the Mini had a Blu-Ray player?



## SUOrangeman (Nov 28, 2010)

(My apologies if this topic has come up before ...)

Is it just me, or does the concept of the TiVo Mini almost beg for the inclusion of a Blu-Ray player? The Mini already has a great footprint when compared to main TiVo units and other A/V equipment. If someone was considering a Mini for additional TVs in the home, having a Blu-Ray capability built into the Mini would make it the perfect companion. I'd assume that most of the processing hardware is already in place, and there would only be a need for an inch or two of additional height for the drive itself. There would almost be no need for any other components other than the TV and whatever surround audio solution is put in the room.

Just curious ...

-SUO, can't speak on the "execution" of the Mini in its current form


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

TiVo tried to integrate a DVD RW player in a Series 2 Humax years ago, I don't think it was a real money maker for TiVo, and it let you record your programs onto a DVD. BD players are so inexpensive now what the point to integrate them into any TiVo product as TiVo could not let you make BD copies of anything that was recorded in HD.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

People still use physical optical media for movies? I thought those went the way of the 8-track tape.....

No, no need for a blu-ray player with the mini. My mini plays any movies stored on my tivo or our home server. On the rare occasion that I do rent a physical blu-ray, its transferred to the tivo first before watching.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

jcthorne said:


> People still use physical optical media for movies? I thought those went the way of the 8-track tape.....
> 
> No, no need for a blu-ray player with the mini. My mini plays any movies stored on my tivo or our home server. On the rare occasion that I do rent a physical blu-ray, its transferred to the tivo first before watching.


I don't think many people have a home server or know how to xfer physical Blu-ray or DVD movie to their TiVo, but have a BD player that they just put the disk into and watch, that easy.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

lessd said:


> I don't think many people have a home server or know how to xfer physical Blu-ray or DVD movie to their TiVo, but have a BD player that they just put the disk into and watch, that easy.


Add the fact the TiVo copy will be lower quality and it is against the law in the US to defeat digital copy protection and transfer a Blu-ray disc to a TiVo, I don't think it is a mainstream method of Blu-ray rental playback. Still we do see some people here advocate doing that, the reasons escape me.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I always thought a TiVo DVD could be very cool - i have always pictured the functionality integrated very closely with the current system.

Pop a DVD in the player and a new folder shows up at the top of "My Shows". Go into the folder and the content is separated into the main movie and any extras. Select the movie and it plays using the TiVo native player with pause / FF / RR and the like.

Ever notice how bad the trick play is implemented on most blue-ray players. Wouldn't it be nice to have the fluidity of TiVo?

I don't think it would ever happen, and I realize physical media is slowly going away - but I would love it!

I will tell you, if pytivo / tivo2go used MRS instead of MRV, this could be an outstanding community project.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

bradleys said:


> Pop a DVD in the player and a new folder shows up at the top of "My Shows". Go into the folder and the content is separated into the main movie and any extras. Select the movie and it plays using the TiVo native player with pause / FF / RR and the like.


Just like I did for years using my Humax S2 TiVo with DVD player/recorder?

Well, actually the DVD functionality was in its own menu off of TiVo Central, but trick play worked like a TiVo not a DVD player. Also, I could record from my Video camera over firewire directly to a blank recordable DVD.

Those were the days.

I still have it in a closet somewhere. It got put away when I went HD for TV and got a Bluray Disk player for hardmedia.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

SUOrangeman said:


> (My apologies if this topic has come up before ...)
> 
> Is it just me, or does the concept of the TiVo Mini almost beg for the inclusion of a Blu-Ray player? The Mini already has a great footprint when compared to main TiVo units and other A/V equipment. If someone was considering a Mini for additional TVs in the home, having a Blu-Ray capability built into the Mini would make it the perfect companion. I'd assume that most of the processing hardware is already in place, and there would only be a need for an inch or two of additional height for the drive itself. There would almost be no need for any other components other than the TV and whatever surround audio solution is put in the room.
> 
> ...


No need for a BD player. Just pick up a separate BD player for $60 or $70 and the problem is solved. No need to have one built in with a Mini. It would cost alot more if they did.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

aaronwt said:


> No need for a BD player. Just pick up a separate BD player for $60 or $70 and the problem is solved. No need to have one built in with a Mini. It would cost alot more if they did.


 With that logic, then why is there a need for streaming apps on a TiVo? Just go buy a Roku and "the problem is solved"!


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

A Roku doesn't have 1080P24 output. A TiVo does. And so does a BD player(at least for BD playback). 

It's much, much cheaper to put a streaming app into a product than to put a disc player into a product.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I think it is a missed opportunity for TiVo as an add-on product. I can see them not wanting to build it into a specific box - but a BD player that presents itself as a TiVo device - I would definitely purchase one.

Especially if they could split out the movie from the preview and other features. 

Network attached and you would only need one network attached device!


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

bradleys said:


> ................
> 
> Especially if they could split out the movie from the preview and other features.
> 
> ...............


That is not happening for a disc based player.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

aaronwt said:


> That is not happening for a disc based player.


I don't think any of it will happen...


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Chris Gerhard said:


> Add the fact the TiVo copy will be lower quality and it is against the law in the US to defeat digital copy protection and transfer a Blu-ray disc to a TiVo, I don't think it is a mainstream method of Blu-ray rental playback. Still we do see some people here advocate doing that, the reasons escape me.


Mostly because I do not own a blu ray player nor would I want one connected in to my system. Tivo is a whole home system, the blue ray player would be in only one location, and its a piece of hardware that would be seldom used. The only drive I have capable of reading a blu-ray is in my laptop. On the RARE occasion that someone shows up at our home wit a blu ray disk that the group really wants to watch, I stick it in the laptop drive and start the transfer process. It only takes a few minutes. I will not get into a DRM discussion on this but suffice it to say, I do not believe I have violated anyone's rights nor hurt any living thing with my approach. I do not keep copies of rented or borrowed discs. We WATCH them, that's it. The licence to do so was given (or at least implied) when the disk was purchased or rented. Please do not try to insinuate that I violate the law or its intention.

The point of my post was that physical media for the distribution of movies and television shows is outdated and obsolete. Much like CATV subscriptions, thier time has passed. Our family has moved on.

We do purchase a large deal of content via a number of distribution channels, but it is rare that a physical disc is involved and then only because of restrictions on distribution at that time, not technical reasons.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

bradleys said:


> I will tell you, if pytivo / tivo2go used MRS instead of MRV, this could be an outstanding community project.


Why? of what advantage one vs the other?


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

bradleys said:


> I think it is a missed opportunity for TiVo as an add-on product. I can see them not wanting to build it into a specific box - but a BD player that presents itself as a TiVo device - I would definitely purchase one.
> 
> Especially if they could split out the movie from the preview and other features.
> 
> Network attached and you would only need one network attached device!


All of these features would violate (or come real close to) the DRM on the physical disc. Close enough that the costs and risks to Tivo to deal with it would prevent the idea from even being considered.


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## SUOrangeman (Nov 28, 2010)

OK, I guess I'm not one of the cool kids. I actually prefer to own (and occasionally rent) Blu-Ray media, simply for the quality of the video and audio. In fact, I own one of those Sony 400-disc Blu-Ray megachangers (the ES model) and the two AVRs I own have a 3D Blu-Ray player built in (Samsung HW-D7000). With two kids under age 7 in the house, I have amassed a respectable 3D collection of animated feature films.

I have never streamed a movie via NetFlix or any similar source. While I realize that the only way to get 4K content is to download/stream it, I'm not sure anything else provides the high-quality, near-instant gratification of popping in a Blu-Ray for viewing.

When I reach the point of adding more TVs throughout my home, I'm not going to go all-out as I have done with my main "theater." A TiVo Mini would be perfect for those rooms, especially if a Blu-Ray player capability was built in. As a few of you have noted, decent B-R players are well under the $100 price point. I believe many of them already have the online streaming capabilities that rival what TiVo offers (Hulu, NetFlix, and so on). I want to believe that the technology is stable and cheap enough that it wouldn't be difficult to add B-R playback to a device such as the Mini. Otherwise, I have to look at whole-home solutions (HDMI matrix switches and the wiring required to make effective use of such distribution, for example) just for distributing the media I already have.

I don't want to consider a Mini with a B-R player as a "missed opportunity." But, I would consider it a "low-hanging" fruit.

-SUO


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

jcthorne said:


> Why? of what advantage one vs the other?


I already have a process that will utilize local storage and MRV, but that requires ripping and moving - it would be nice to take a rental and play it directly.

My world isn't over - and I definitely don't expect it to happen, but it would be cool - IMHO


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

jcthorne said:


> All of these features would violate (or come real close to) the DRM on the physical disc. Close enough that the costs and risks to Tivo to deal with it would prevent the idea from even being considered.


That has always been the nagging voice in my head. I am not sure what would be "legal" in modifying the presentation of a commercial disk.

TheBayer created a dvd plugin for pytivo that would allow you to select the main feature independently of the rest of the content.

You are most likely correct that a commercial product would be prohibited from modifying the presentation mechanism of a disk.

Still would be nice! And that goes back to what a community built product can do vs a commercial product.


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## eboydog (Mar 24, 2006)

Even if legal issues could be solved, physical support for TiVo optical drives has always been tough. One bad optical drive and it's half as useful as it once was, esp when they reach the end of warranty.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I picture a stand alone product, either network connected or eSATA connected to the TiVo.

Personally, I would love to make one myself. Network connected, pyTiVo powered, pico motherboard, Blue-Ray chassis, Linux OS, Blue-ray player. Power on the Blue-ray, put in the disk and it shows up in your device list.

Use Slysoft AnyDVD to perform a little magic, separating the feature from the menus and previews and allowing TiVo / pyTiVo read and present it for you to play. 

You can see why MRS would be a benefit in this scenario. 

Lots of hurdles for not really significant benefit - but I still think it would be cool!


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

There's no point because BDs are going to be dead, just like every other physical media. Only the serious videophile will care and that's not Tivo's market.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

bradleys said:


> That has always been the nagging voice in my head. I am not sure what would be "legal" in modifying the presentation of a commercial disk.
> 
> TheBayer created a dvd plugin for pytivo that would allow you to select the main feature independently of the rest of the content.
> 
> ...


I very much agree here. A BluRay player plug in to stream from a network drive would be very cool.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

slowbiscuit said:


> There's no point because BDs are going to be dead, just like every other physical media. Only the serious videophile will care and that's not Tivo's market.


Yes, we are moving away from physical media, but there is still a place for places like Redbox and I still like to purchase a BD of my facorite movies.

So I think the media still has a few years.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

This would just add cost and a new potential source of failure to what is otherwise just a bunch of chips. No thanks.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

jrtroo said:


> This would just add cost and a new potential source of failure to what is otherwise just a bunch of chips. No thanks.


Everyone makes an evaluation of what personally brings them value. I wouldn't want the added expense / complexity of a Blu-Ray player on an existing TiVo box, but I would love a highly integrated network attached BD player to compliment my TiVo.

Will TiVo produce one, no, they have way too many things going on with distributing content to ancillary devices to worry about a dying technology like physical media.


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## SUOrangeman (Nov 28, 2010)

So, you guys took my original thought in a very different direction. I had only just thought of adding the playback of Blu-Rays to the Mini by adding a drive and the appropriate hooks in the TiVo interface. I never meant to get into the rabbit hole of ripping B-Rs into TiVo storage or anything else that may introduce legal/technological issues.

So, how about we look at this another way. May Blu-Ray players offer some streaming capabilites that I believe rival what the Mini offers. What if TiVo licensed its Mini innards to B-R player makers? Would you buy a Panasonic/Samsung/LG player if it could also serve the function of a TiVo Mini and access your recordings? Is something like this already possible by taking advantage of the TiVo Stream capabilities already built into Roamio? I'm sure somebody has Android running a player or some similar device. What if we could just load the TiVo app onto that device and access our recordings that way?

-SUO


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

SUOrangeman said:


> So, you guys took my original thought in a very different direction. I had only just thought of adding the playback of Blu-Rays to the Mini by adding a drive and the appropriate hooks in the TiVo interface. I never meant to get into the rabbit hole of ripping B-Rs into TiVo storage or anything else that may introduce legal/technological issues.
> 
> So, how about we look at this another way. May Blu-Ray players offer some streaming capabilites that I believe rival what the Mini offers. What if TiVo licensed its Mini innards to B-R player makers? Would you buy a Panasonic/Samsung/LG player if it could also serve the function of a TiVo Mini and access your recordings? Is something like this already possible by taking advantage of the TiVo Stream capabilities already built into Roamio? I'm sure somebody has Android running a player or some similar device. What if we could just load the TiVo app onto that device and access our recordings that way?
> 
> -SUO


If it wasn't highly integrated into the TiVo UI, then no, I wouldn't see the value in an integrated system.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

It has a USB port, nothing is preventing them from allowing external DVD/BD drives from working.


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## Ben_Jamin75 (Dec 18, 2003)

I think it is more likely to see a tivo app on a bluray player, making it a dumbed down version of a tivo mini, than the possibility of tivo making a bluray/mini combo.


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