# MoCa question



## andrew64 (Sep 12, 2003)

Maybe getting cable and coming back to TiVo. Had them a long time ago with direct tv. So was looking at there roamio dvr for main tv and then a mini for bedroom. Now I have verizon DSL which works fine for streaming now. My question is it appears I need to use a MoCa network to set up the mini. Can this be done with DSL modem amd apple router. Really don't want to switch to cable modem at this time. Thanks.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

A Roamio Plus or Roamio Pro is able to create the MOCA network. A Roamio base unit wiould require a 3rd-party device. The MOCA network will provide the connectivity needed between the Mini and the Roamio over the coax cabling. But you don't really even need that; you can connect the Roamio and the Mini to your wired Ethernet network and not use MOCA at all, if you want.

MOCA is simply a convenient connectivity mechanism for those who want to place the Mini somewhere that may already have coax wired but not wired Ethernet.

The MOCA network that TiVo can use has no relation to any Cable Modem or Cable company-provided internet service.


----------



## andrew64 (Sep 12, 2003)

That's the problem. Don't have Ethernet close enought to bedroom. Could run a long wire but would not be worth it. So the only way to get the mini to stream is with wired network. Have a coax near bedroom tv but it's not in use now. Would be if get cable. Same with main tv. Direct tv has own version of this called deca and have that set up now


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Do you have Ethernet near where the main TiVo is going to go? If not then what you'll want to do is buy a MoCa bridge and install it in some central location that has access to both Ethernet and coax. The simply connect the Mini to the coax and enable MoCa for it to work. For the TiVo, if it's a Plus/Pro then you just have to enable MoCa like you did on the Mini and it will just work. If it's a Basic then you'll need to buy another MoCa bridge and connect it to the Ethernet port on the TiVo and then to the coax.


----------



## andrew64 (Sep 12, 2003)

Gonna be tough. Have a phone outlet and coax in daughters room but will have to see if it gets Internet. What about power line adapter. Have plenty of outlets.


----------



## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

andrew64 said:


> That's the problem. Don't have Ethernet close enought to bedroom. Could run a long wire but would not be worth it. So the only way to get the mini to stream is with wired network. Have a coax near bedroom tv but it's not in use now. Would be if get cable. Same with main tv. Direct tv has own version of this called deca and have that set up now


Use your existing DECA adapters from DirecTV to create a whole home ethernet connection and then use the ethernet hookup on your mini connected to the DECA adapter. Just make sure you only run the cable TVs raw coax feed into the main Roamio and then split the rest of your house into a DECA only network. DECA can interfere with cable TV signals since they're in the same frequency band. That's what DECA is, it's moca, just with frequencies in the opposite band as to not interfere with their satellite signals like standard MoCA would.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

If you won't have DirecTV for video, you can use the coax currently used for the DirecTV signal for cable and MoCA connectivity to devices. (And DirecTV is using MoCA, just using a mid-frequency version, and they call their adapters DECA.)

The TiVo Mini is a streaming device; it can be connected via Ethernet or via MoCA since it has both capabilities built in. If you can deliver the network connectivity another way, all you need ultimately is the Roamio and the Mini(s) to exist on the same network. It doesn't make any other use of the coax cable (in other words, no cable video signals need be on the coax cabling that services the MoCA network.)

All you need is the cable video signal to get to the Roamio unit; and the Mini to get to the Roamio unit over the network -- Ethernet or MoCA.


----------



## wscottcross (Dec 24, 2014)

andrew64 said:


> Gonna be tough. Have a phone outlet and coax in daughters room but will have to see if it gets Internet. What about power line adapter. Have plenty of outlets.


Powerline networking is hit or miss. I have it working with my mini and my Roamio basic is wired ethernet to my switch/router. I suspect that it may depend on whether the bedroom and the source outlet are on the same side of the main house breaker panel. the shorter the electrical path, the better when it comes to powerline networking.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

andrew64 said:


> Gonna be tough. Have a phone outlet and coax in daughters room but will have to see if it gets Internet. What about power line adapter. Have plenty of outlets.


It doesn't need to get internet. I think you're a bit confused on how MoCa works.

MoCa is basically a way to convert an Ethernet signal into a signal that can be transmitted via coax cable. So basically you can treat any coax cable in your house as an Ethernet connection. All you need is a MoCa bridge connected to your internet router. Any device with MoCa built in like the Mini or Romaio Plus/Pro can simply pick up that signal and use it directly. Any device that requires Ethernet, like the Roamio Basic will require a second MoCa bridge to convert the signal back to Ethernet.


----------



## andrew64 (Sep 12, 2003)

I guessi could get a basic roamio for bedroom and plus for main tv. Then don't have to worry about streaming to bedroom. A. Thought I was pretty good with setting this stuff up but this deca/MoCa stuff is confusing.


----------



## andrew64 (Sep 12, 2003)

All I'm looking for is to get dvr capabilities to two tvs and stream to my iPad so whatever is easiest. Have a direct tv dvr in each room now. One records 6 shows one 2. That's the older one.


----------



## SrLANGuy (Dec 26, 2001)

If you're looking at streaming to your iPad, you'll want to go with the Roamio Plus or Roamio Pro. Both of these TiVos can work as an Ethernet to MoCA bridge and they have "*TiVo Stream*" built-in for streaming to your iPad. You connect the Roamio (Plus or Pro) to your Internet Router using Ethernet. Then you also connect it to the coax from your cable company. When you enable MoCA on the Roamio, it then extends your home network to the coax in your house that also carries the cable TV signal (but they don't interfere with one another). Then you can setup a TiVo Mini in any room that has coax, enable the built-in MoCA adapter, and then the Mini can talk to the rest of your home network (including the Roamio and the Internet).

Here's a link to TiVo's MoCA Networking FAQ and Troubleshooting webpage.

NOTE: To prevent your MoCA network from leaking outside your home to your neighbors over the cable company's coax, you'll want to purchase and install a MoCA POE Filter (Point-of-Entry filter). I was able to purchase one for under $10 delivered.


----------



## andrew64 (Sep 12, 2003)

Again the problem is router is in loft and main tv downstairs so Ethernet cable not possible.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

andrew64 said:


> Again the problem is router is in loft and main tv downstairs so Ethernet cable not possible.


It probably would have helped for you to describe your existing setup completely rather than waiting to respond to every suggestion with why it's an incorrect assumption. 

All the TiVo devices need to be connected to the same network, either via an ethernet connection or a MoCA connection.

The Roamio Plus and the Roamio Pro can themselves make that bridge, creating a MoCA network on the coax and bridging it with your ethernet network. But you don't need to use the Roamio for that if you provide that anywhere else in your home. As you describe the main TV location, you don't easily have both topologies available in that location, so you just need to perform that bridging elsewhere.

Wherever you have your coax cable and ethernet connectivity you would need to install a MoCA adapter to create the MoCA network and connect with your ethernet network for access to the internet. Then you only need to place the Roamio wherever it can connect to the same coax for the cable television signal, and it'll connect to the network via MoCA over that same cabling.

One or more TiVo Mini's can then be connected anywhere you have the coax cable (and it'll use MoCA) or ethernet connection (where it's simply using the ethernet network to get to the Roamio).


----------



## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

dswallow said:


> If you won't have DirecTV for video, you can use the coax currently used for the DirecTV signal for cable and MoCA connectivity to devices. (And DirecTV is using MoCA, just using a mid-frequency version, and they call their adapters DECA.) The TiVo Mini is a streaming device; it can be connected via Ethernet or via MoCA since it has both capabilities built in. If you can deliver the network connectivity another way, all you need ultimately is the Roamio and the Mini(s) to exist on the same network. It doesn't make any other use of the coax cable (in other words, no cable video signals need be on the coax cabling that services the MoCA network.) All you need is the cable video signal to get to the Roamio unit; and the Mini to get to the Roamio unit over the network -- Ethernet or MoCA.


...,or DECA. Since he already has it there from his DirecTV install, I don't know why everyone is trying to make him spend even more money on Moca adapters and such. 

It's extremely easy and plug and play. Send me a PM and I'll fully explain or even call you if need be.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

andrew64 said:


> All I'm looking for is to get dvr capabilities to two tvs and stream to my iPad so whatever is easiest. Have a direct tv dvr in each room now. One records 6 shows one 2. That's the older one.


The easiest solution is to get a Roamio Plus/Pro (only difference is storage capacity) and a Mini for the second room. The only thing you need to figure out with that setup is how to get an internet connection to the Roamio. For that you have two choices... You can use Ethernet if the TiVo is close enough to an Ethernet connection, or you can buy a MoCa bridge and install it near your router so that it can connect to both coax and Ethernet.

If you use option #1 then the TiVo acts as the bridge so the Mini talks to the TiVo via MoCa and it talks to the router via Ethernet.

If you use option #2 then both the Mini and the TiVo talk to each other via MoCa and the bridge device converts the MoCa signal into Ethernet so they can both talk to the router as well.

It's really not that complicated.

The only difference between MoCa and DECA is the frequencies they use. MoCa uses frequencies intended to prevent interference with cable and OTA and DECA uses frequencies intended to prevent interference with DSS. Since the Roamio Plus/Pro is for cable you'll want to get rid of the DECA stuff and convert to MoCa.


----------



## PCurry57 (Feb 27, 2012)

andrew64 said:


> That's the problem. Don't have Ethernet close enought to bedroom. Could run a long wire but would not be worth it. So the only way to get the mini to stream is with wired network. Have a coax near bedroom tv but it's not in use now. Would be if get cable. Same with main tv. Direct tv has own version of this called deca and have that set up now


You can use the same coax wire your currently using for deca. You can not use deca adapters though.


----------



## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

PCurry57 said:


> You can use the same coax wire your currently using for deca. You can not use deca adapters though.


Why does everyone keep saying this??? You CAN use deca! You just have to make sure there's no raw rf cable signals on the line between your Roamio and the rest of your house. You just need to run Ethernet and the raw cable signal ONLY to your Roamio and then split the rest of the house's coax into its own deca network. It's basically just modulated Ethernet over coax after all, the same as moca is, just on different freqs that could interfere with cable signals, which will be moot if you separate like I said.

Dan's suggestion is best, to get a Roamio plus or pro, but if you get a base Roamio without built in moca, deca is very doable and suggested since it's already in place from the DirectTV install.


----------



## Pacomartin (Jun 11, 2013)

wscottcross said:


> Powerline networking is hit or miss. I have it working with my mini and my Roamio basic is wired ethernet to my switch/router.


TiVo specifically recommends that Powerline not be used. When the mini first came out PCMAG tried it anyway.



PCMAG said:


> We tried an alternative with a powerline-to-Ethernet networking adapter, which was somewhat successful. While we were able to set up the TiVo Mini over powerline, we experienced video stuttering on HD channels. Stuttering became worse when viewing HD videos with lots of cuts, like the BBC's Top Gear, while HD programs with long takes like Ken Burn's PBS documentaries displayed smoothly. The TiVo menu system and SD video channels performed fine with the powerline adapter.
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2417166,00.asp


----------



## wscottcross (Dec 24, 2014)

Pacomartin said:


> TiVo specifically recommends that Powerline not be used. When the mini first came out PCMAG tried it anyway.


Their article supports my statement, namely that it is hit or miss. I'm having no issues whatsoever with any shows, live or recorded and all in HD. Skiping and FF work fine. There are alot of factors that can affect powerline networking and end user results will vary greatly. My point was that it is possible to use it if the conditions are favorable.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Pacomartin said:


> TiVo specifically recommends that Powerline not be used. When the mini first came out PCMAG tried it anyway.


I have one connected to a AV200 powerline adapter and it works fine. Probably wouldn't have enough bandwidth to support two at the same time, but it works fine for the one.


----------



## wscottcross (Dec 24, 2014)

Dan203 said:


> I have one connected to a AV200 powerline adapter and it works fine. Probably wouldn't have enough bandwidth to support two at the same time, but it works fine for the one.


I'm using a pair of XAV101 adapters with no issues.


----------



## randrake (Jan 19, 2015)

I used wireless bridging between two routers without an issue at all. But I'm replacing the base Roamio with the Plus because TiVo offered me a deal on Lifetime because of my old Series 2 a week after buying the base unit from Best Buy. And they wouldn't let me just attach the special lifetime to my Best Buy purchase even only a week old. Told "we don't want to compete with our retailers but you got to do what you got to do." So when I get my Plus, I will be returning the base to Best Buy and when asked why, I will be honest with Best Buy and tell them the reason. My Plus arrives today so probably will see if it works fine with Moca to not have to worry about both routers working just for tv in the other room.

Router 1 is a Netgear WNDR4500v2 connected to the modem that the Roamio also hard wired into since in the same room.

Router 2 was the Belkin N900 it replaced because my FireTV was not able to mirror my Fire HDX for some reason. So bought the Netgear to test that FireTV situation and it fixed it. When I got the Roamio and Mini, I flashed the Belkin with a custom firmware called Padavan which allows bridging since DD-WRT wasn't available. It was DD-WRT forums I learned of Padavan.

The bridging between the two routers are at 162mbps and Moca 1.1 is just around 170 so that can be why I can do it with wireless bridging with no issue. But those speeds will vary depending on many environmental factors so wireless working for me doesn't guarantee it will work for you.


----------

