# Walking Dead 10/18/2015 'JSS' *spoilers*



## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

That could've possibly been the goriest episode of WD to date. 

So what's your take on Enid? Was she one of the wolves? Did she just take the opportunity to sneak off on her own because it was the only way to 'just survive somehow?'

So very good to see Carol back in action, and to see Morgan be the true badass that we knew he could be.


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## sneagle (Jun 12, 2002)

Best part of the episode is that the group(s) defended themselves without Rick. Without his cockamamie plans and his running around "saving the day."

Worst part...Morgan let the wolves go. Bad move.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Yes. It was excellent. Carol was incredible and Morgan should have finished the wolves.


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

I really don't get why Enid, a small-framed teenage girl, went off on her own at the end presumably without weapons or supplies, instead of staying in Alexandria with friendly people. I mean what is she going to do, wander around by herself trying to avoid walkers and humans with bad intentions to rape, kill and/or eat her, stopping only to munch down on the occasional raw tortoise? Going solo like that is not safe course of action even for a single well armed strong man. Same comment for Morgan, even if he is more well equipped to be a lone wolf. No firearm and not willing to kill other people unless pushed means he'll be at the mercy of the first individuals he meets with numbers or guns.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

They are both a little insane. The girl seemed like she was about to say something relevant before Carl interrupted her.

Did they run out of special effects budget for skewering skulls? It seemed like they cut a lot of scenes just before the coup de grace.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Morgan turned down a gun but I'm pretty sure he already had one in a holster.

Not a fan of these 1/2 the cast episodes.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

It looked like it was going to be a character development episode - and I even thought that it was going to be a dream sequence of some kind when Carol looked out and saw the smoking lady take a machete to the face. Then the dial got set to 11 and it was just incredible chaos.

Not sure why Enid took off. I don't think she's going to be wolf, but there's hardly a chance she doesn't wind up with them at some point.

Just listen to Carl - he'll protect you! I so don't want to see any kind of teenage drama/angst in this world. There's no place for it and it should be out of Carl's system given all he's witnessed and had to do to survive up to this point.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

It sure looks like Enid is a Wolf. But it can also be a setup for us viewers. Who else would take those pictures?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Guess Carlo kinda blew her cover,huh? 


Jim_TV said:


> I really don't get why Enid, a small-framed teenage girl, went off on her own at the end presumably without weapons or supplies, instead of staying in Alexandria with friendly people.


I think she believes she is less of a target "out there" than with the Alexandrians. (And yes, they're certainly implying she was one of them; whether that was misdirection remains to be seen. I was thinking she was going to attack Carl when they were back to back in the house...)


gossamer88 said:


> It sure looks like Enid is a Wolf. But it can also be a setup for us viewers. Who else would take those pictures?


Those were the pictures the Alexandrian scouts used to show outsiders how wonderful life there was. The guy who found them on the Wolf was one of the scouts. So now he knows that he helped lead the Wolves to Alexandria, helped make it a target.

The whole episode was basically the writers saying to Alexandria, "See what happens when you don't listen to Rick?"


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## 2004raptor (Dec 31, 2005)

Wouldn't eating a raw turtle get you real sick?

Anyway. I guess I'm slow but how did the show connect Enid to the wolves? I'm not saying it's not a possibility. I just don't recall the implication.

Didn't Morgan kill that last wolf? The one in the house? I thought he said something right before he struck him and then the camera went to another scnene or something. 

I thought this was a very Gorey episode but was also one of the best so far.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

gossamer88 said:


> It sure looks like Enid is a Wolf. But it can also be a setup for us viewers. Who else would take those pictures?


Probably a continuity error, but in one of those pictures you see the wall knocked over. That only happened after the truck ran into it.

Speaking of the truck, that driver turned awful quick.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

2004raptor said:


> Anyway. I guess I'm slow but how did the show connect Enid to the wolves? I'm not saying it's not a possibility. I just don't recall the implication.


In her conversation with Carl, it seemed like she was starting to confess that she had been one of them but he cut her off.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

wprager said:


> Probably a continuity error, but in one of those pictures you see the wall knocked over. That only happened after the truck ran into it.


That pic was of the wall being put up.



> Speaking of the truck, that driver turned awful quick.


Yep, that happens.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

David Platt said:


> That could've possibly been the goriest episode of WD to date.
> 
> So what's your take on Enid? Was she one of the wolves? Did she just take the opportunity to sneak off on her own because it was the only way to 'just survive somehow?'
> 
> So very good to see Carol back in action, and to see Morgan be the true badass that we knew he could be.





john4200 said:


> They are both a little insane. The girl seemed like she was about to say something relevant before Carl interrupted her.
> 
> Did they run out of special effects budget for skewering skulls? It seemed like they cut a lot of scenes just before the coup de grace.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> In her conversation with Carl, it seemed like she was starting to confess that she had been one of them but he cut her off.


She said something to the effect of "This place is too big to protect. It has too many blindspots. That's how we were able to..." and then Carl cut her off.

Sure seems like she is connected somehow. Otherwise, how did the wolves know that this was their best time to attack, with all the people with survival skills being gone. All that were left to protect the town were Carl, Carol (and they didn't know Carol was a bad-ass), and Morgan who is a pacifist. No one else knew how to fight back (though a few learned very quickly).

Oh, and if they are splitting the cast to save money per episode, this was the best use of that! This showed the survivors why Rick was correct in that people need to learn to fight otherwise they are not safe. And Since they were forced into it, they couldn't rely on Rick's team to bail them out.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

markz said:


> She said something to the effect of "This place is too big to protect. It has too many blindspots. That's how we were able to..." and then Carl cut her off.
> 
> Sure seems like she is connected somehow.


The other possibility is that it's a fake-out, and she's part of some other group. Which would be a but much, but then again, TWD has never shied away from much! 

As for the timing of the attack, that could well have been dumb luck. The Wolves don't really seem much like planners and schemers...I think they just saw the recruiters' pictures of Alexandria and thought it would be an easy target.


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

Great episode. 

Carol is more of a no nonsense badass than Rick

And she can cook.

Oh, and I liked the egg timer. Showed that the whole attack took place in under 15 minutes.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Maui said:


> Oh, and I liked the egg timer. Showed that the whole attack took place in under 15 minutes.


I think it was 45 minutes..?


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Maui said:


> Oh, and I liked the egg timer. Showed that the whole attack took place in under 15 minutes.


Wow, I didn't catch that. I did like that when it was over and the timer went off, Carl took the cookies/cake/whatever out of the oven like everything was back to normal.

I did think that Morgan was going to get shot by the lady barricaded in the armory. They kind of left that story line hanging. Carol showed her how to shoot and said that if anyone comes in that door shoot them, but we never saw her again.


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

markz said:


> She said something to the effect of "This place is too big to protect. It has too many blindspots. That's how we were able to..." and then Carl cut her off.


Yeah, I definitely caught that "we".



markz said:


> I did think that Morgan was going to get shot by the lady barricaded in the armory.


 I was looking for that too.

Seeing the smoking lady get chopped was a _great_ transition.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Enid was acting odd in a couple other ways this episode. First, that talk and hug with the other boy seemed odd. Was she saying goodbye? And then the fact that she had that huge set of keys. What was she doing with those keys?

That, and what she almost said to Carl, it certainly looks like she was doing something she didn't want most Alexandrians to know about. I'm not convinced that means she was in league with the Wolves, but it could be. Or it could be that she was about to say that is how she (and the other boy?) were able to sneak in and out of the village and do something (prepare supplies to run away? build a small fort without blindspots to live in?)


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

tlc said:


> I was looking for that too.


Also the mother and child hiding in the closet. They sure set up opportunities for fatal misunderstandings!


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

2004raptor said:


> Wouldn't eating a raw turtle get you real sick?


Probably- they are notorious for carrying salmonella.
Good thing that was a gopher tortoise.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

I took her words to mean that's how she and Carl were able to sneak out so many times. There's too much wall to watch and protect. I never got the feeling that she's one of them. If so she would have given the wolves the keys she had..

She's been with the Alexandria's for months now, and the wolves assault was piss poorly planned. . They didn't know where the guns were, or that Rick's group, and Morgan were not to be taken lightly and should've been the primary targets instead of the sheeple.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

That episode was intense. As soon as Carol saw the machete-wielding guy through the window I was wide-eyed, and stayed that way throughout the ep.


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think it was 45 minutes..?


It is hard to tell if it is set at 15 or 45










From this site showing all of Carols good scenes.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

What are chicken bones doing inside of a turtle?


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## jautor (Jul 1, 2001)

Maui said:


> It is hard to tell if it is set at 15 or 45


Not going to cook a casserole in 15 minutes, so, process of elimination...


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## jautor (Jul 1, 2001)

markz said:


> She said something to the effect of "This place is too big to protect. It has too many blindspots. That's how we were able to..." and then Carl cut her off.


Isn't that a reference to her sneaking out of the compound undetected (and Carl following her)? I don't recall which episode, but Carl caught her sneaking through the wall (or over it?) and followed her into the forest.


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## Balzer (Nov 12, 2006)

jautor said:


> Not going to cook a casserole in 15 minutes, so, process of elimination...


Plus.. In Talking Dead, it was either mentioned or shown onscreen that the attack "took place in real time, in 45 minutes".. or something to that effect. I was getting sleepy, so I don't recall for sure if it was mentioned or shown as a trivia fact. 

Like an episode of 24, I guess.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

robojerk said:


> I took her words to mean that's how she and Carl were able to sneak out so many times. There's too much wall to watch and protect. I never got the feeling that she's one of them. If so she would have given the wolves the keys she had..
> 
> She's been with the Alexandria's for months now, and the wolves assault was piss poorly planned. . They didn't know where the guns were, or that Rick's group, and Morgan were not to be taken lightly and should've been the primary targets instead of the sheeple.


Yeah. I would agree with all of this.


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## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

Necromancer2006 said:


> Not sure why Enid took off. I don't think she's going to be wolf, but there's hardly a chance she doesn't wind up with them at some point.


"There's Proof 'The Walking Dead' Showed Us A Spy Last Night"


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

jautor said:


> Not going to cook a casserole in 15 minutes, so, process of elimination...


Never cooked a casserole in my life so I will take your word for it.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Maui said:


> It is hard to tell if it is set at 15 or 45
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is good to know they put resources toward getting their network back up and running! Or are video baby monitors all bluetooth?


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

dwatt said:


> It is good to know they put resources toward getting their network back up and running! Or are video baby monitors all bluetooth?


Wow, I had not even noticed the baby monitor.


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## markb (Jul 24, 2002)

dwatt said:


> It is good to know they put resources toward getting their network back up and running! Or are video baby monitors all bluetooth?


I think a lot use direct RF communication that is neither bluetooth nor wifi.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

dslunceford said:


> "There's Proof 'The Walking Dead' Showed Us A Spy Last Night"


It's interesting how close that article gets to what I said earlier, but seems to slip right past it...yes, she's a spy, but for whom?

I still suspect that we're MEANT to think she's working with the Wolves, but in fact she's working with somebody else.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

gossamer88 said:


> It sure looks like Enid is a Wolf. But it can also be a setup for us viewers. Who else would take those pictures?





dslunceford said:


> "There's Proof 'The Walking Dead' Showed Us A Spy Last Night"





Rob Helmerichs said:


> It's interesting how close that article gets to what I said earlier, but seems to slip right past it...yes, she's a spy, but for whom?
> 
> I still suspect that we're MEANT to think she's working with the Wolves, but in fact she's working with somebody else.


I understand the speculation that Enid is "a Wolf in Sheeple's clothing", but I'm not buying into it. I like that her storyline is presented in such a way to give us that misperception. Good writing. I am definitely NOT buying the notion (from the linked article) that Enid is the leader of the Wolves. I also really liked the opening showing Enid's backstory. :up:


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Enid was brought to the community of Alexandria approximately eight months prior to Rick Grimes and company's arrival. That's a long time to be a spy especially for an impulsive group like the Wolves who even accidentally could've come up with a better invasion plan with that much time and intel to plan it.
Even though its suspicious she had the key chain, she didn't give them to the Wolves.
Even though the wolves ignored the Grimes gang house, doesn't mean there was a plan for her to execute those inside.
There's no way shes a spy for the Wolves. I'll maybe accept she's a spy for someone else, but for how long know 9 - 12 months? How long has it been since the Grimes gang arrived at Alexandria? That's a long time. Considering how powerless to fight the inhabitants used to be why would another group wait so long? Why plant a spy in a seemingly safe and friendly town for that long if your intentions weren't nefarious. I firmly believe she just meant that Carl and her sneaking out, maybe they played doctor out there and that's what she meant, that it was too easy and no one was really watching.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Doesn't have to be a spy for evil people...


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

markz said:


> She said something to the effect of "This place is too big to protect. It has too many blindspots. That's how we were able to..." and then Carl cut her off.


I haven't read the whole thread yet, so I may be totally smeeking, but I took this to mean her and Carl had... ummmm... "gotten busy" without getting caught thanks to the blindspots.


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## BrandonRe (Jul 15, 2006)

Perhaps I just missed it, but after the attack was over, and Carol was on her porch steps, the camera lingered on a red "A" that looked like it had been intentionally placed there. Did I miss something that explained that or is it yet to be explained. It looked like she paused a second to look at it and then moved on. Sort of looked like it was referencing the "W" on the wolves' foreheads.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

BrandonRe said:


> Perhaps I just missed it, but after the attack was over, and Carol was on her porch steps, the camera lingered on a red "A" that looked like it had been intentionally placed there. Did I miss something that explained that or is it yet to be explained. It looked like she paused a second to look at it and then moved on. Sort of looked like it was referencing the "W" on the wolves' foreheads.


It's the...um...Aardvarks! They're coming!

Armadillos?


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

Caught up now... sneaking out is along the lines of what I was thinking, but I just took it to the next level I guess.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

BrandonRe said:


> Perhaps I just missed it, but after the attack was over, and Carol was on her porch steps, the camera lingered on a red "A" that looked like it had been intentionally placed there. Did I miss something that explained that or is it yet to be explained. It looked like she paused a second to look at it and then moved on. Sort of looked like it was referencing the "W" on the wolves' foreheads.


That was probably the little boy. He had his "A" handstamp at the beginning of the episode when Carol saw him sitting on the steps and told him to live with what happened to his father. The A was not there when we saw the boy sitting there, but the scene did not show him getting up from the steps. Presumably he put the A there before he left. But it did not look like a stamp on the handrail. Maybe he stamped it and then colored it in with a marker or something? Or maybe just sloppiness by the set people.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

BrandonRe said:


> Perhaps I just missed it, but after the attack was over, and Carol was on her porch steps, the camera lingered on a red "A" that looked like it had been intentionally placed there. Did I miss something that explained that or is it yet to be explained. It looked like she paused a second to look at it and then moved on. Sort of looked like it was referencing the "W" on the wolves' foreheads.


That kid has an A stamp. It was on something else in this episode and we saw it when they first arrived.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

pmyers said:


> That kid has an A stamp. It was on something else in this episode and we saw it when they first arrived.


oh DUH, it was the stamp when they accept them as a member of the community I think.

So the kid now accept Carol

I think that's it


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

I liked this episode, but there were a few things I didn't like:

1. It seemed there were a lot of Wolves at first and then all of a sudden there weren't very many. A few got killed, Morgan scared a few off, but what happened to the rest.
2. Why would they not have guns? 
3. If they knew this was the best time to attack (half the group was gone), then they'd probably also know about the armory - yet they didn't go straight there.
4. Even for a brainless, killer mob they were just too disorganized. They kill a guy near the entrance and then spend time dismembering him?? Kill everyone and then come back and do that. Too many wolves just randomly out on their own running around town.
5. Why didn't they have a choice (wolves)?

I don't know, just seemed like a lot of really strange things in this episode, almost like it was forced to show how much of a badass Carol was (which we already knew).


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

I can't stop thinking that this whole thing really makes Rick look like a buffoon. That whole zombie parade plan just didn't work out really well.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

spartanstew said:


> 2. Why would they not have guns?


That's what I was wondering. One of them does now, though.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

The thing that mystifies me is how Morgan got back to Alexandria when he was just with Rick in the woods - or that he is the only one - 

OK so maybe the rest are dealing with the herd but it seemed like when the horn went off the implication was they were going to find out what it was...


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Cainebj said:


> The thing that mystifies me is how Morgan got back to Alexandria when he was just with Rick in the woods - or that he is the only one -


Rick sent Morgan back to tell everyone what was happening. Somewhere between a few minutes and an hour before the horn went off.


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

Cainebj said:


> The thing that mystifies me is how Morgan got back to Alexandria when he was just with Rick in the woods - or that he is the only one -
> 
> OK so maybe the rest are dealing with the herd but it seemed like when the horn went off the implication was they were going to find out what it was...


Yes, forgot to list that as my number 6


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Enid makes me think of Newt from Aliens.


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## BrandonRe (Jul 15, 2006)

pmyers said:


> That kid has an A stamp. It was on something else in this episode and we saw it when they first arrived.





MikeMar said:


> oh DUH, it was the stamp when they accept them as a member of the community I think.
> 
> So the kid now accept Carol
> 
> I think that's it


Ahh- yes. Thanks for reminding me!


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

zalusky said:


> Enid makes me think of Newt from Aliens.


OMG. +1

I forgot the other BEST thing about this episode...

Merritt Wever joined the cast. :up:


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

BrandonRe said:


> Perhaps I just missed it, but after the attack was over, and Carol was on her porch steps, the camera lingered on a red "A" that looked like it had been intentionally placed there. Did I miss something that explained that or is it yet to be explained.





MikeMar said:


> oh DUH, it was the stamp when they accept them as a member of the community I think.
> 
> So the kid now accept Carol
> 
> I think that's it


I was thinking the "A" was a callback to the railway boxcar at Terminus, but I prefer MikeMar's explanation.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

getreal said:


> I was thinking the "A" was a callback to the railway boxcar at Terminus, but I prefer MikeMar's explanation.


Yeah I thought it was Terminus too until it hit me when I posted that. And why the kid had the stamp in his hands.

So the A had NOTHING to do with Terminus or the Wolves

Carol was accepted


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I've got a theory, it could be Aardvarks.

Or maybe Armadillos.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Cainebj said:


> OMG. +1
> 
> I forgot the other BEST thing about this episode...
> 
> Merritt Wever joined the cast. :up:


Yes, love having Merritt Weaver in the show.

This episode was brutal. Really great juxtaposition of Carol putting in the casserole then seeing her neighbor hacked up with a machete.

Mostly what this show does very well is make Fear TWD look really terrible. I mean, wow is that show even more spectacularly bad when compared to stuff like this. Production level, acting, characters, story, just all of it.

I did not get a single sense through the show that Enid was a mole or traitor of any kind. I think she'll do whatever it takes to survive (JSS) and she's decided that Alexandria is not the best place for that.

Whatever happened to the gun Rick buried outside town. I know it went missing, I can't remember if it we found out where it went.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Carl has one butt ugly haircut.


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## markb (Jul 24, 2002)

TiVotion said:


> I can't stop thinking that this whole thing really makes Rick look like a buffoon. That whole zombie parade plan just didn't work out really well.


While I can accept that Rick can make terrible decisions, what really bugs me is that he's convinced everyone to follow him. That makes the writers look like buffoons.


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

markb said:


> While I can accept that Rick can make terrible decisions, what really bugs me is that he's convinced everyone to follow him. That makes the writers look like buffoons.


Most of his decisions are good in the context of a zombie apocalypse. Who else do you expect them to follow? Strong alpha males are always going to be natural leaders in times like these. I'm sure Attila the Hun made some bad decisions in his time too.


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## markb (Jul 24, 2002)

Jim_TV said:


> Most of his decisions are good in the context of a zombie apocalypse. Who else do you expect them to follow? Strong alpha males are always going to be natural leaders in times like these. I'm sure Attila the Hun made some bad decisions in his time too.


It not that I expect them to follow anyone else. I expect the writers to write a better plot line than the quarry plan. Surely the writers could have thought of a better way to set a huge herd of walkers on the loose that allows the character to behave in ways that are true to life.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Zevida said:


> I did not get a single sense through the show that Enid was a mole or traitor of any kind. I think she'll do whatever it takes to survive (JSS) and she's decided that Alexandria is not the best place for that.


Kind of a boring pay-off for a half-season character arc...


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

dswallow said:


> Carl has one butt ugly haircut.


That's why Jess' son won't let her give him a haircut. He sees what she did to Carl's hair!


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## nyc13 (May 31, 2013)




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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Cainebj said:


> The thing that mystifies me is how Morgan got back to Alexandria when he was just with Rick in the woods - or that he is the only one...


Rick had sent Morgan home early to tell Deanna and the others that their dry run had turned into the real thing.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

nyc13 said:


>


Yes....makes perfect sense. Figured that out after my post...


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## nyc13 (May 31, 2013)

Bierboy said:


> Yes....makes perfect sense. Figured that out after my post...


Don't worry, I "figured it out" when they flat out told us on Talking Dead


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

nyc13 said:


> Don't worry, I "figured it out" when they flat out told us on Talking Dead


jss went completely over my head too


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

markb said:


> It not that I expect them to follow anyone else. I expect the writers to write a better plot line than the quarry plan. Surely the writers could have thought of a better way to set a huge herd of walkers on the loose that allows the character to behave in ways that are true to life.


What was wrong with the quarry plan? Looked like it was working perfectly until an unpredictable semi horn went off.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

spartanstew said:


> I liked this episode, but there were a few things I didn't like:
> ...
> 4. Even for a brainless, killer mob they were just too disorganized. They kill a guy near the entrance and then spend time dismembering him?? Kill everyone and then come back and do that. Too many wolves just randomly out on their own running around town...


These people didnt seem like "take over your town and take your stuff" people. These seemed like deranged serial killer people. Why take the time to hack people's limbs off during the middle of an assault? And of course, there was absolutely no leadership or plan to their attack. These just seem like crazies.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Cainebj said:


> jss went completely over my head too


I also didn't get the JSS thing and connection to the note until Talking Dead. Nor did I get the connection of the horn honking thing last week with the truck running into (whatever it ran into) this week until Hardwick mentioned it on TD.

Good episode. It's always great to see really badazz Carol. Also agree with everybody that this attack didn't make a lot of sense. If they had planned it, they sure need some schoolin' about planning.

Sounds like some good theories here about Enid. I had not caught that one bit of dialogue about 'that's how we were able to...'. Plan to watch some of it again.

Not sure I get the thing with the Wolves hacking the hell out of the people they killed. Do they just not know that all you have to do is 'kill 'em in the head'? Or is it some kind of power trip or excitement thing? Lot of time wasted there.

Also agree with whoever mentioned that it didn't make sense to go after all the sheeple and not get right to the ones who could get to them first. That was weird - also the gun armory.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

As Pmyers said above

The answer to all that

Crazies


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## markb (Jul 24, 2002)

pmyers said:


> What was wrong with the quarry plan? Looked like it was working perfectly until an unpredictable semi horn went off.


Where to start... I think the quarry plan was only working (at the beginning) because the writers wrote it that way. But that was totally unbelievable and it shouldn't have worked as well as it did. And there are so many better plans they could have come up with. We're just rehashing last weeks discussion, though.


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## nyc13 (May 31, 2013)

My thought about the hacking off limbs is cannibalism (again). Maybe the meat is no good unless you detach it from the corpse before it turns.

Or could it be possible for a group at this late date to not know how to properly kill a walker? Maybe getting rid of the limbs makes for a less dangerous walker (hmm, doesn't even make sense to call it a walker anymore )


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

markb said:


> Where to start... I think the quarry plan was only working (at the beginning) because the writers wrote it that way. But that was totally unbelievable and it shouldn't have worked as well as it did. And there are so many better plans they could have come up with. We're just rehashing last weeks discussion, though.


Yeah, it seemed to me the purpose of the plan was to unleash a massive zombie horde on the area. 


nyc13 said:


> My thought about the hacking off limbs is cannibalism (again). Maybe the meat is no good unless you detach it from the corpse before it turns.
> 
> Or could it be possible for a group at this late date to not know how to properly kill a walker? Maybe getting rid of the limbs makes for a less dangerous walker (hmm, doesn't even make sense to call it a walker anymore )


Have you never just hacked the living **** out of somebody? It's fun, and very therapeutic.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Have you never just hacked the living **** out of somebody? It's fun, and very therapeutic.


For the hacker, sure. For the hackee, not so much.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

dswallow said:


> Carl has one butt ugly haircut.


He needs to sit down and have a talk with Jessie.

As for why the Wolves were hacking everyone, I think that was simply meant to show us that they're a bunch of bloodthirsty savages and they have no plans or strategy. They're simply there to kill everyone.

I did think it was odd that the one Wolf said that they were there to save the Alexandrians from their prison. That seems like a pretty ridiculous statement. If he really meant that, why weren't they just pulling the walls down rather than killing everyone.

Also, I'm on Team "Enid is a Wolf." Between showcasing her backstory at the beginning, her not being at all panicked during the attack, her saying that the town has too many blindspots and that's how we ..., and then her disappearing when the rest of the Wolves left town, I think that was clearly meant to indicate that she was working with the Wolves.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

When Carol was in disguise and towing Morgan in chains, a few of the wolves assumed she was someone else and called her by name, shortly before she corrected them by putting a cap in their heads. What was the name they called her? It wasn't Enid, was it?


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

danterner said:


> When Carol was in disguise and towing Morgan in chains, a few of the wolves assumed she was someone else and called her by name, shortly before she corrected them by putting a cap in their heads. What was the name they called her? It wasn't Enid, was it?


Aphid


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## markb (Jul 24, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, it seemed to me the purpose of the plan was to unleash a massive zombie horde on the area.


Yeah, I agree. And to give the Wolves an opportunity. My criticism is that the writers had to make too many of the characters act illogically to make this happen.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Aphid was the wolve she killed and took his clothes to blend in.

Any ideas on what is in the blue paper bag Morgan is carrying at the end of episode where he passes Carol on the street?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> I did think it was odd that the one Wolf said that they were there to save the Alexandrians from their prison. That seems like a pretty ridiculous statement. If he really meant that, why weren't they just pulling the walls down rather than killing everyone.


Because the prison is life.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Smoking kills.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

jradosh said:


> Smoking kills.


Took 85 posts for someone to say this?!?!?!?!?!?!


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

jradosh said:


> Smoking kills.


Morley cigarettes, no less. The brand of choice for this show (and many others).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morley_(cigarette)


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

MikeMar said:


> Took 85 posts for someone to say this?!?!?!?!?!?!


It was my wife's first reaction watching that scene!


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

She might not be dead if Carol had not used her super power to control others and shamed her into smoking outside. I liked the interplay with the look on Carol's face when she saw her smoking outside then the look when she was gutted and had her head split open with the look she had after it was over sitting on the porch handling the pack of cigarettes. It was almost like "screw it, nothing has killed me yet , I might take up smoking. Then she saw the "Accepted" stamp on the railing and she started to cry and the smokes went away.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

danterner said:


> Morley cigarettes, no less. The brand of choice for this show (and many others).
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morley_(cigarette)


That reminds me of the newspaper that many shows use as well.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I think there is a zero point zero percent chance that Enid is with the wolves.


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## sean67854 (Jul 11, 2001)

I also thought the reference Enid made to the blind spots was either about cozy time with Carl or with that other kid.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Oh wow, that's a trip about the newspaper.


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## 2004raptor (Dec 31, 2005)

Something the actress said right at the end of TD made me not think she was part of the wolves. I can't remember exactly. 

Oh, and the guys on TD acted like she was the best actress on earth.. She was no better than any random zombie IMO. No offense to her.

And the one guy on TD kept touching his face/chin throughout the show. What's up with that? Not sure of his name.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Was that the Brit guy? I had no idea who he was. But it was probably just a nervous tick type of thing.

Yeah, that actress got a lot of credit for a 'meh' actor.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Paul Bettany - plays JARVIS/Vision in Marvel Iron Man/Avengers, also starred in A Beautiful Mind and Master & Commander. Married to Jennifer Connelly, so he's got that going for him, which is nice.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

sean67854 said:


> I also thought the reference Enid made to the blind spots was either about cozy time with Carl or with that other kid.


I don't think cozy time is her thing. I think she was talking about how the kids in town got in/out of the walls.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

sharkster said:


> Oh wow, that's a trip about the newspaper.


It's one of those things, like the Wilhelm Scream, that jumps out at you once you know about it. You'll be seeing that newspaper everywhere now.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

MacThor said:


> Paul Bettany - plays JARVIS/Vision in Marvel Iron Man/Avengers, also starred in A Beautiful Mind and Master & Commander. Married to Jennifer Connelly, so he's got that going for him, which is nice.


He'll always be Chaucer from A Knight's Tale to me.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Maui said:


> It is hard to tell if it is set at 15 or 45
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There's a shadow pointing to the 15. I don't think the timer uses a shadow as a pointer.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

scandia101 said:


> There's a shadow pointing to the 15. I don't think the timer uses a shadow as a pointer.


Unless it's a sun-dial timer?


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

wprager said:


> He'll always be Chaucer from A Knight's Tale to me.


And trudging.

Every. Day. Toward the end of my walk I recite his line about trudging.
_"To trudge: the slow, weary, depressing yet determined walk of a man who has nothing left in life except the impulse to simply soldier on."_


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

"I will eviscerate you in fiction."

He had some eof the best lines.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

dwatt said:


> Any ideas on what is in the blue paper bag Morgan is carrying at the end of episode where he passes Carol on the street?


THAT is a great question.
I'm still wondering if the implication is that Morgan is leaving Alexandria in that last shot of him walking, BUT, I also noticed he is carrying a small blue bag (not sure it is paper) - and wonder if we've seen him with it before or if it means anything...


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Cainebj said:


> THAT is a great question.
> I'm still wondering if the implication is that Morgan is leaving Alexandria in that last shot of him walking, BUT, I also noticed he is carrying a small blue bag (not sure it is paper) - and wonder if we've seen him with it before or if it means anything...


I noticed the bag as well and wondered what it means.

My guess: it's where he keeps the ears of the people he has killed.


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## ACoolDude (Dec 11, 2001)

Anubys said:


> I noticed the bag as well and wondered what it means.
> 
> My guess: it's where he keeps the ears of the people he has killed.


I thought it might be a cola canned ham sandwich.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I've got a theory, it could be Aardvarks.
> 
> Or maybe Armadillos.


Cerebus would absolutely kick ass in the zombie apocalypse.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

I think Enid got in the habit of sneaking out, and that's where she met the wolves. Her JSS philosophy fit in with theirs.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Philosofy said:


> I think Enid got in the habit of sneaking out, and that's where she met the wolves. Her JSS philosophy fit in with theirs.


??? Their philosophy wasn't JSS; it was more FPKK (Faster Pussycat Kill Kill)...if all they wanted to do was survive, they wouldn't be running around picking fights with people.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

When I first saw Carol in the Wolves disguise, I thought that was pretty risky for her. If anyone in Alexandria had a gun and thought she was a Wolf, she'd be dead. But then I realized nobody else in Alexandria has guns and once Maggie got inside, she recognized Carol right away.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

heySkippy said:


> I think there is a zero point zero percent chance that Enid is with the wolves.


Agreed 100%.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And yes, they're certainly implying she was one of them; whether that was misdirection remains to be seen. I was thinking she was going to attack Carl when they were back to back in the house...


When did they imply that? Didn't they clearly show us her path from the point her parents got killed to the point where she showed up at Alexandria? When did she have time to fall in with the wolves?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> her saying that the town has too many blindspots and that's how we ...


She was referring to her and Carl. Last season they snuck out of Alexandria a couple of times by going over the wall.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Dan203 said:


> When did they imply that? Didn't they clearly show us her path from the point her parents got killed to the point where she showed up at Alexandria? When did she have time to fall in with the wolves?


They implied that with her behavior with Carl in the house during the attack.

And no, they showed a number of events during that period, but with no indication of how much time took place between events. I'm not saying she DID fall in with the Wolves during that time...but I think she did fall in with SOMEBODY.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> They implied that with her behavior with Carl in the house during the attack.
> 
> And no, they showed a number of events during that period, but with no indication of how much time took place between events. I'm not saying she DID fall in with the Wolves during that time...but I think she did fall in with SOMEBODY.


I didn't get that sense at all. I think her actions made her seem like a scared rat. She didn't trust anyone and just wanted to get away from danger. I think she's psychologically damaged from seeing her parents get eaten and is just not thinking clearly.

I think the stuff with Carl was just a way to set it up for him to go looking for her. Or maybe now she will get captured by the wolves and the gang will need to go save her.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> When did they imply that? Didn't they clearly show us her path from the point her parents got killed to the point where she showed up at Alexandria? When did she have time to fall in with the wolves?


They showed us a bunch of snippets of her journey prior to arriving at Alexandria. It was by no means presented as a comprehensive travelogue. It seems pretty obvious to me from how Enid was acting and what she said to Carl that there was something amiss. If the writers wanted her involvement to be a surprise to the viewers (or to be ambiguous), then of course they're not going to show Enid consorting with the Wolves in that opening segment.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I didn't get that sense at all. To me it just felt like she wanted to get out of there. 

But I haven't watched this weeks episode yet, so maybe they explain more there? I guess I'll see.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I'm with Dan - I didn't get any sense there was anything going on with Enid other than she's a damaged young lady.

I was surprised to read all the conspiracy theories in the thread after the episode.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

Yeah, after reading the theories here, I asked a bunch of my friends who watch the show if they picked up on any of this. Not one of them did and, FWIW, none of them bought into it when I explained it. Time will tell, of course.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> I think the stuff with Carl was just a way to set it up for him to go looking for her. Or *maybe now she will get captured by the wolves and the gang will need to go save her.*


The Wolves don't strike me as the type of people who take prisoners. I think they were once like the Grimes gang, a group of competent survivors. Then something happened. Either a new (crazy?) member came along and took control of the group, or they had their own Governor/Terminus type battles and completely lost their way to survive. it. Either way a group that seems to kill indiscriminately, chops the arms off, and carves a 'W' on the foreheads of their victims doesn't strike me as the type to hold someone. Especially after Carol and Morgan kind of kicked their asses.

I also think Carl might go looking for her.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

robojerk said:


> The Wolves don't strike me as the type of people who take prisoners. I think they were once like the Grimes gang, a group of competent survivors. Then something happened. Either a new (crazy?) member came along and took control of the group, or they had their own Governor/Terminus type battles and completely lost their way to survive. it. Either way a group that seems to kill indiscriminately, chops the arms off, and carves a 'W' on the foreheads of their victims doesn't strike me as the type to hold someone. Especially after Carol and Morgan kind of kicked their asses.
> 
> I also think Carl might go looking for her.


I think the Wolves are just anarchists - they didn't seem to have much of a plan when they attacked, it was just random haphazard killing. Then on top of the haphazard killing, a few of them just continued to hack the kill into pieces without moving on to the next kill. Seemed very chaotic and definitely disorganized.

Maybe that assessment will be shown to be wrong as the season moves forward, but I think they're just a loosely banded gang of marauders with very little organization.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

They were mostly killing, but they were also leading a few away in chains. This is also how Carol was able to sneak up on a few with Morgan being "Chewbacca". What was that one of the Wolves said to her? Something like " Good one, Aphid"


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Are there any Wolves left? What about that scene from last season where they were leading the backpacker to their walker-pen? What's the point of trapping more humans there to turn them into walkers?


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> They implied that with her behavior with Carl in the house during the attack.
> 
> And no, they showed a number of events during that period, but with no indication of how much time took place between events. I'm not saying she DID fall in with the Wolves during that time...but I think she did fall in with SOMEBODY.


My wife and I didn't get that impression either like Dan.

Scott


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

I'm with Dan, too. She is a damaged soul who has withdrawn into herself as her defense mechanism. She is not into joining up, hooking up, being part of, or getting close to another human in any manner. Her attraction to Carl frightens her enough that she feels the need to run again. To think that she would saddle herself with the care of- or even _carrying_ of- a child is extremely out of character.

She is a lone wolf, not one of the Unfair Wolves.

The "That was how we ..." would have been continued "... were able to climb in and out together so easily."


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