# OTA frequency changes; how to get guide to reflect it?



## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

One of my local broadcast stations had been using channel 55 for their DTV broadcast, but today they cut analog and now their DTV broadcast is back down to channel 7. However, I can't get my TiVo S3 to tune it in, even though I've run a full channel scan. The channel listing page is still shows their DTV channel as RF channel 55, but that is now just dead air. I can get this channel in on my PC's internal ATSC tuner card, so I know my antenna *can* get it tuned in.

Do I have to call TiVo support to have them push me out an updated channel guide?


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## mathwhiz (May 28, 2000)

As far as I know you have to call to get them to update this. I called this morning for one of my stations. Will probably have to call again tomorrow. Very annoying to have to tell them to fix it when the stations knew about it for awhile. I did the very helpful and friendly rep today that don't be surprised if they start getting lots of these calls.

I have to keep manually checking my to-do list to make sure I don't miss shows because of the incorrect channel.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

mathwhiz said:


> As far as I know you have to call to get them to update this. I called this morning for one of my stations. Will probably have to call again tomorrow. Very annoying to have to tell them to fix it when the stations knew about it for awhile. I did the very helpful and friendly rep today that don't be surprised if they start getting lots of these calls.
> 
> I have to keep manually checking my to-do list to make sure I don't miss shows because of the incorrect channel.


It's possible the guide data changes for these OTA channels will be reflected into tomorrow's guide data since most of the stations were switching around midnight. Although it is Tribune, so who knows.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

Channel 24 in st. Louis changed there freq on 1-19 to freq 14. tivo still thinks there on freq 24 its been a month and i still cant record channel 24


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

tootal2 said:


> Channel 24 in st. Louis changed there freq on 1-19 to freq 14. tivo still thinks there on freq 24 its been a month and i still cant record channel 24


Did you contact TiVo support, they weren't able to push you down a corrected channel listing? I assumed I would have to call them today, as I just did an antenna channel guide setup again and it still doesn't know the proper frequency for one of my locals.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

I thought the guide data would be tied to the remapped channel (say 9-1) not the actual frequency...?

What the...?

Was TiVo not aware of a huge DTV switchover that involved tons of frequency changes?


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## Leo Valiant (Apr 19, 2000)

This just happened to me as well. The local PBS went all digital yesterday and changed their frequency. The guide shows the channel twice now, the old one with no signal and guide data, and the new one with signal and no guide data.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

cogx said:


> Did you contact TiVo support, they weren't able to push you down a corrected channel listing? I assumed I would have to call them today, as I just did an antenna channel guide setup again and it still doesn't know the proper frequency for one of my locals.


I tried to but the e-mail address is a .tv address and yahoo says thats not an e-mail address.

Victor Anderson, Program Director
Phone: (314) 881-3211
Email: [email protected]

I dont watch 24 at all, but they just added a res sub channel. would like to watch that.


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## Leo Valiant (Apr 19, 2000)

Adam1115 said:


> Was TiVo not aware of a huge DTV switchover that involved tons of frequency changes?


They were, even on this board several weeks ago. A station took the digital plunge early back in Dec. The station turned off analog, digital changed frequency, and no guide data for TiVo.

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6977563#post6977563


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## LoREvanescence (Jun 19, 2007)

I had issues with this back in November when both abc and pbs flipped their switch early. Scanning the lineup for channels did not help, it still wouldn't tune in the channels. 

However, as soon as I repeated guided setup everything worked just fine. You can repeat the channel only portion of the guided setup by going to Messages & Settings > Settings > Channels > Channel List Then pressing enter, followed by thumbs down 3 times and enter.


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## Leo Valiant (Apr 19, 2000)

LoREvanescence said:


> I repeated guided setup everything worked just fine.


I'll have to try that. I didn't based on the other thread, where more than one person said that repeating guided setup does not fix the problem.



hagios said:


> obviously, I tried that. *The point is you can rescan channels and rerun guided setup and everything and nothing will change until TiVo remaps the guide data.* They finally did make the change about 4-5 days ago. That means that I had no guide data for our local FOX affiliate for close to a month. Everything is fine now.
> 
> Let's hope that TiVo does a better job than this on Feb 17.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

LoREvanescence said:


> I had issues with this back in November when both abc and pbs flipped their switch early. Scanning the lineup for channels did not help, it still wouldn't tune in the channels.
> 
> However, as soon as I repeated guided setup everything worked just fine. You can repeat the channel only portion of the guided setup by going to Messages & Settings > Settings > Channels > Channel List Then pressing enter, followed by thumbs down 3 times and enter.


Was your problem with the guide data or not displaying the new frequencies? My guide data is there and the mapped channel should be the same for me on my local PBS, but I can't get the sucker to tune (they did change broadcast frequencies) after a new channel scan. I have some custom QAM channels so I am really not excited about a new guided setup channel scan...


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## LoREvanescence (Jun 19, 2007)

Leo Valiant said:


> I'll have to try that. I didn't based on the other thread, where more than one person said that repeating guided setup does not fix the problem.


It wont always work. If the mapping data is indeed wrong it wont help at all. But the map data can get glitched and need a reset, so some of the issues could be fixed by repeating guided set up. It worked for 2 channels in my area.

I'm still having trouble with another pbs station out of keene nh though. Their virtual mapping is malformed and the channel gets mapped on 11-1, 11-2, 11-55, 11-75, 49-1, 49-2, 52-1, 52-2, 75-1, 75-2 all for the same station. The guide data is mapped for both 11-1 and 11-2, and 52-1 and 52-2 after contacting tivo, and my there guide data does show up there as a blank black channel, but I have more then one 11-1 and 52-1 I can scan throw so the 11-1 with this pbs station does not have the guide data same as the 52-1. I have given up on it, but it does show that yes, tivo must match a feq with virtual mapped number for guide data to work.

Another example I have that proves this is cbs and another pbs from ct both have 44-1. And each 44-1 know to check a different freq for the station even though it has zero signal strength for both and channel scan can't pick them up.

It's worth a shot to see if repeating guided set ups fixes any glitches in the indexing of channel data. It may help one or two stations like it did for me. But it probably wont fix all stations is frequencies changed. That would require contacting tivo for updated guide data.


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## LoREvanescence (Jun 19, 2007)

dig_duggler said:


> Was your problem with the guide data or not displaying the new frequencies? My guide data is there and the mapped channel should be the same for me on my local PBS, but I can't get the sucker to tune (they did change broadcast frequencies) after a new channel scan. I have some custom QAM channels so I am really not excited about a new guided setup channel scan...


My problem was the guide data was there, but it couldn't tune the channel. The channel made an update when they switched freq's and stuff. And even though my guide data was there and right. It would not get a signal lock when checking diagnostics. I would just get a black screen with a signal strength of 92%. Rescanning the channels, restarting the tivo, everything I did for a week did not help.

I guess that was a little diffrent then having the channel and the guide data now showing up. But my channels did change freq. For example, pbs springfield ma, they put full time hd on the analog freq, and made their digital freq 5 sub channels. I could also pull up the digital channels on their freq with out guide data, but not on the virtually mapped location.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Again, a channel scan will do nothing with the guide data. A channel scan will only let you find the channel if it changed frequencies. Tribune has to update their database to get guide data for these channels.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

Awesome, rescanned and same mapped channel, different frequency (so there are two 10-1, 10-2, etc) so no more guide data for those stations that took the plunge. On the plus side my signal strength jumped about 25&#37;. But I imagine I'm going to have to call Tivo everytime a channel makes the hop.

Double bonus, my provider is now broadcasting all of my HD stations at the callsign (6-1 for Fox 6, 13-1 for NBC 13, etc) as well with PSIP data, but alas no guide data for clear QAM.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

dig_duggler said:


> Double bonus, my provider is now broadcasting all of my HD stations at the callsign (6-1 for Fox 6, 13-1 for NBC 13, etc) as well with PSIP data, but alas no guide data for clear QAM.


They would have to map them to the cable lineup channel not the OTA channel but technically they aren't suppose to do that afaik. If they did, you would get guide data.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

rainwater said:


> They would have to map them to the cable lineup channel not the OTA channel but technically they aren't suppose to do that afaik. If they did, you would get guide data.


I just reported the antenna discrepancy and asked about the cbl mapping. He took the info and said it would corrected within 5 days, but I have a feeling that might not pan out....


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

I think they assume if you don't call back after 7 days the issue is resolved, I've been fighting a station with incorrect "Digital Frequency" for a year now and now have another one that transitioned yeserday so I now plan to call weekly until its fixed.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

dig_duggler said:


> I just reported the antenna discrepancy and asked about the cbl mapping. He took the info and said it would corrected within 5 days, but I have a feeling that might not pan out....


Uh... just called as well, and ... um... you aren't kidding. How can a company like TiVo not completely and absolutely understand every facet of how broadcast (cable) TV channels works? It would be like being a car salesman who has literally never driven a car in their life. I also don't feel any confidence it will get fixed in "7 business days".


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

rainwater said:


> Again, a channel scan will do nothing with the guide data. A channel scan will only let you find the channel if it changed frequencies. Tribune has to update their database to get guide data for these channels.


But it wouldn't HAVE to change if the guide data was based on the remapped channel number like it's supposed to be instead of the actual frequency.

That was the WHOLE POINT of ATSC doing that, so that channel 9 could stay channel 9 even if they are really on 38...


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## kiko (Jun 27, 2005)

The problem lies with Tribune Media aka zap2it. I reported the incorrect frequencies to Tivo who opened a ticket with trib.

I've been using xmltv's tv_grab_na_dd to verify that the data is still incorrect.

For example KITV-DT was on <fccChannelNumber>4</fccChannelNumber>
and after the digital switch the data should say <fccChannelNumber>40</fccChannelNumber>

I hope Tribune gets this fixed soon.


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## markens (Apr 12, 2007)

Perhaps people should start demanding $$ credit from TiVo for every day that the guide info (and channel mappings) are not correct. After all, TiVo is not providing the service being paid for.

Really, it's been known for months that this was going to happen and the lineup changes should have been ready. It's beyond belief that TiVo was not on the ball here.

But yet I'm not surprised. Sigh.


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## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

If TiVo allowed guide data mapping as discussed in this thread http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=362736 this wouldn't be as much of an issue. I invite you to join the discussion in progress (skip to the last couple pages rather than reading the entire thread).


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Tribune updated their guide with some frequency changes today. The next time your TiVo connects to download guide information, it will download those changes. Alternatively, you can force a connection now under Settings -> Phone & Network.

If aren't getting a picture on an off-air channel (from an antenna), or one of your off-air channels is not mapped to the correct frequency, then please call TiVo immediately to report that.


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

Tivo should switch to what ever Titantv.com uses, they have correct listings for 2 out of my 3 problem stations.

(if you click on a show the channel info next to the description lists what they have for the digital channel)


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

kb7oeb said:


> Tivo should switch to what ever Titantv.com uses, they have correct listings for 2 out of my 3 problem stations.
> 
> (if you click on a show the channel info next to the description lists what they have for the digital channel)


I believe TitanTV uses FYI Television, which is notorious for its unreliable guide information (i.e. incorrect program names, descriptions, flagging new episodes as repeats, flagging repeats as new episodes, etc).


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

markens said:


> Really, it's been known for months that this was going to happen and the lineup changes should have been ready. It's beyond belief that TiVo was not on the ball here.


Huh? The plan from "months" ago were that *all* high powered channels were going to turn off analog, not that only 421 were going to turn off analog on the 17th (not sure of those 421, how many simultaneously changed frequencies - which is the crux of this thread). You certainly didn't want tivo to execute on that plan!

From the FCC's press release on 2/16:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-288530A1.pdf


> Remember where we were little more than a week ago. [...] We potentially had all 1,800 full-power stations seeking to terminate analog service on February 17. [...] Within the last few days, 43 of those stations reconsidered their decision and will stay on the air with analog service.


So, within the last week, the planned analog shutdown went from 1800 stations down to 421, and of that 43 changes were within the "last few days"

Finally, I'm guessing that tivo/tribune actually needs to confirm with the station that they actually made the change as planned. What if something went wrong, and they weren't able to change their frequency on the 17th? Then you'd have guide data with updated frequencies, but nothing yet broadcast. This is just as bad a situation.


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

The FCC published a list of stations that were planning to shutdown. For a company the size of Tribune they should have been able to put together a reasonably accurate list. Heck they should have the resources to call each station on the list and just ask them what they were going to do.

Volunteers over on AVS had a fairly accurate list going before the FCC released theirs. The volunteers just searched the FCC website for fillings where the stations told the FCC what their plans were.

It sounds like Tivo did nothing, Tribune did nothing and Tribune is just waiting for stations to update their information.


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

kb7oeb said:


> The FCC published a list of stations that were planning to shutdown. For a company the size of Tribune they should have been able to put together a reasonably accurate list. Heck they should have the resources to call each station on the list and just ask them what they were going to do.


If this was in response to my post, my debate was with the statement that the changes have been known for months, when in reality some have only been known for days. And, I was suggesting maybe they did make calls to all the stations, that requires a minimum of 421 calls, And that's assuming they can get the right person at the station who can answer their question - maybe not the same person at the station who they deal with for guide related issues.



kb7oeb said:


> Volunteers over on AVS had a fairly accurate list going before the FCC released theirs. The volunteers just searched the FCC website for fillings where the stations told the FCC what their plans were.


Another part of my argument is "plans" are not reality. Tivo/tribune have been caught before sending out cable lineup updates on the "scheduled" date for a change, only to find out later that the cable company delayed things without letting tribune know.



kb7oeb said:


> It sounds like Tivo did nothing, Tribune did nothing and Tribune is just waiting for stations to update their information.


I'd say the jury is still out on this conclusion. I haven't seen anyone post saying they got a frequency update, but they're also not likely the people that would post. I would also not be surprised to see some data get updated when boxes connect tonight. If stations change at 11:59PM on 2/17, it's possible that tribune didn't send out the udpdate until 2/18, and boxes would pick it up in their 2/18-2/19 connection. It's also possible with the number of changes, that something gets missed, and it will take some time for everything to settle down.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> But it wouldn't HAVE to change if the guide data was based on the remapped channel number like it's supposed to be instead of the actual frequency.
> 
> That was the WHOLE POINT of ATSC doing that, so that channel 9 could stay channel 9 even if they are really on 38...


I really have no idea how this works, but I have lots of duplicate channel numbers (13-1 WVTMDT is NBC antenna channel, 13-1 WVTM DT (notice the space) is the NBC clear QAM channel from my cable provider. 33-1 WCFTDT is my ABC antenna channel, 33-1 is also ABC3340 from my cable provider (again, clear QAM HD abc channel from my provider; this holds true for all my networks). I would LOVE if the guide data applied to both since they are the same channel but a different way of receiving it (giving me guide data for my clear QAM) but that sounds like it ain't ever gonna happen.

What are all the identifying features for the Tivo to map the channel to Tribute guide data? Anyone familiar with it?


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

markens said:


> Perhaps people should start demanding $$ credit from TiVo for every day that the guide info (and channel mappings) are not correct. After all, TiVo is not providing the service being paid for.
> 
> Really, it's been known for months that this was going to happen and the lineup changes should have been ready. It's beyond belief that TiVo was not on the ball here.
> 
> But yet I'm not surprised. Sigh.


I agree with your first point. Customers that are having issues should request a credit. I'm not sure what tivo could/should do for customers that have LS.

Your second paragraph *is 100% false.* The law extending the deadline to switch over was signed in early February. I understand stations are notifying the FCC by email if they intend to go with the earlier date. *Had Tribune/tivo gone with the changes that were known about for months the vast majority of the customers would have bad guide data.* Most of the stations, particularly in the larger markets, are waiting to switch.

It's beyond belief that that you can distort the facts as much as you are.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

I'm willing to have an open mind, but making even a hundred changes of a channel frequency in a database shouldn't take more than a day. Put an intern getting minimum wage on the task and they could have made all the changes required in few hours. We have students doing similar kind of work of grinding, manual data processing tasks and they just put their headphones on and churn the stuff out. This isn't mapping genomes (or rocket science), it's matching up a call sign with a frequency with an index that points to programming data for a particular channel. I spend more time a week analyzing NFL stats for my fantasy football than it would take to correct this stuff. I have to assume people who think this is complicated don't work with computer data for a living.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

cogx said:


> I'm willing to have an open mind, but making even a hundred changes of a channel frequency in a database shouldn't take more than a day. Put an intern getting minimum wage on the task and they could have made all the changes required in few hours. .


You want to have an open mind? Read the posts that mention the fact that stations are notifying the FCC via email what they're doing. There isn't an accurate, updated list, that gives the status of each station. Obviously inputting the correct frequencies isn't a big deal. *Getting accurate information to input is a big deal.* Tribune really needs data from the stations.


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## Popasmurf (Jun 10, 2002)

I called TiVo last night and was told I needed to wait 2 weeks to see if Guide data gets updated and THEN call in to report and fix. Does that sound right?


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

Popasmurf said:


> I called TiVo last night and was told I needed to wait 2 weeks to see if Guide data gets updated and THEN call in to report and fix. Does that sound right?


No. Call them back.


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## markens (Apr 12, 2007)

lew said:


> Your second paragraph *is 100% false.* The law extending the deadline to switch over was signed in early February. I understand stations are notifying the FCC by email if they intend to go with the earlier date. *Had Tribune/tivo gone with the changes that were known about for months the vast majority of the customers would have bad guide data.* Most of the stations, particularly in the larger markets, are waiting to switch.
> 
> It's beyond belief that that you can distort the facts as much as you are.


Let me clarify my point. I did not mean to suggest that ALL changes originally scheduled for Feb 17 be pushed out. I was simply saying that the DATA should have been already compiled and ready to go, and therefore it should be a relatively straightforward matter to verify and push the _applicable_ changes out in a timely manner.

The delay bill certainly threw a monkey wrench into the works, no question about it. Even with the list of stations terminating analog known on Feb 13 (only 10 deferred exceptions), there were still details to confirm regarding DTV channel transitions. But I would have thought Tribune would be somewhat more proactive in getting and vetting those changes than they appear to be. Us customers shouldn't have to be required to initiate lineup changes here, which seems to be the case.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

lew said:


> You want to have an open mind? Read the posts that mention the fact that stations are notifying the FCC via email what they're doing. There isn't an accurate, updated list, that gives the status of each station. Obviously inputting the correct frequencies isn't a big deal. *Getting accurate information to input is a big deal.* Tribune really needs data from the stations.


The station in question for me is run by a guy who regularly posts on the AVS forum site and he sounds like knows what he is doing. The FCC record for their station is accurate. But you're saying that the Tribute company doesn't care about the FCC records, they just assume the broadcast stations will contact them, the stations have to *initiate* that contact? So, if I post back on the AVS forum site, what should I tell him to do in order to get Tribune to make the necessary frequency change in their guide data?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

cogx said:


> I have to assume people who think this is complicated don't work with computer data for a living.


it is not the data processing that is the problem, it is getting the right data that is the problem. I have to assume you do not sit in requirements meetings with business partners for a living.. 

We had 2 stations here that publicly waffled on when they would go dark on analog. One even had a crawl going that actually changed during one evening on a recording I made. Everyone, that was ready, was thrown into a tailspin by this dumb extension as it came after all the plans had been laid out.

if the station owner contacts someone as www.zap2it.com then that should effect the change needed.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

dig_duggler said:


> I really have no idea how this works, but I have lots of duplicate channel numbers (13-1 WVTMDT is NBC antenna channel, 13-1 WVTM DT (notice the space) is the NBC clear QAM channel from my cable provider. 33-1 WCFTDT is my ABC antenna channel, 33-1 is also ABC3340 from my cable provider (again, clear QAM HD abc channel from my provider; this holds true for all my networks). I would LOVE if the guide data applied to both since they are the same channel but a different way of receiving it (giving me guide data for my clear QAM) but that sounds like it ain't ever gonna happen.
> 
> What are all the identifying features for the Tivo to map the channel to Tribute guide data? Anyone familiar with it?


That makes no difference. That clear qam is not a mapping, it's ignored by tivo. IF it were remapped (like with a cablecard) it would have a valid cable channel number (like 653).


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> if the station owner contacts someone as www.zap2it.com then that should effect the change needed.


I'll see if I can make that happen. I've done many searches on this site over the past three days and I have found several instances where people had lineup problems of one sort or another for months gone by with no resolution. I hope that doesn't happen to me.


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## markens (Apr 12, 2007)

Well, the OTA lineup change that hit my TiVo today was very unexpected. Briefly:


Five full power stations in my market
Four of the five terminated analog on Feb 17
Three of the four brought up post-transition DTV on their old analog freq
One of the four (Fox) had never intended to transition their DTV signal from pre- to post-transition channel until several months after the Feb 17 date. There is an approved FCC filing to this effect, and the plan was reiterated in the station's Feb 9 DTV Transition Status update.

So guess what changes were made to my lineup today? Only one: The freq for the Fox station (which was never scheduled to change Feb 17) was updated to the post-transition freq (which won't have a signal for several months). Nothing else.

I gave the discrepancies to TiVo tech support, but I really wonder about the process. That's really been my point all along.

I just gotta laugh at this point. And ride shotgun on my season passes for a while, scheduling manual recordings for the channels no longer in the program guide.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

markens said:


> I just gotta laugh at this point. And ride shotgun on my season passes for a while, scheduling manual recordings for the channels no longer in the program guide.


In a perverse way, one almost has to give them an award for being _*that*_ wrong.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

markens,

Where are you located? It is strange that each station had plans to use the analog frequencies for their digital station. Are they all VHF?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

If some OTA channels aren't working, you really should mention your market / zip. That way, if a TiVo employee is reading, they can file another lineup change and/or make sure the existing lineup change was filed correctly.

You should still call if a lineup change is needed, but posting the information here can only help.


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## markens (Apr 12, 2007)

jrm01 said:


> Where are you located? It is strange that each station had plans to use the analog frequencies for their digital station. Are they all VHF?


I think it really depends on each market. Here, all majors are planning to use their old analog frequency for DTV. All but one are VHF.



bkdtv said:


> If some OTA channels aren't working, you really should mention your market / zip. That way, if a TiVo employee is reading, they can file another lineup change and/or make sure the existing lineup change was filed correctly.
> 
> You should still call if a lineup change is needed, but posting the information here can only help.


Good idea, thanks. Here's the complete list. I just forced a service connection on my TiVo, so lineup info should be current as of a few minutes ago.

Location: Medford, OR

Current "on the air" and lineup status:

KOBI 5.1 5.2
old channel 15 off the air, but still listed in lineup
new channel 5 on the air, but not in lineup

KSYS 8.1 8.2 8.3
old channel 42 still on the air, listed in lineup ok
new channel 8 on the air, not in lineup
==> station tells me application filed to keep 42 on the air, so both should be in lineup

KTVL 10.1 10.2 10.3
channel 35 no change; station waiting until June 12 to terminate analog

KDVR 12.1 12.2
old channel 38 still on the air, listed in lineup ok
new channel 12 on the air, not in lineup
==> station tells me decision not made yet regarding taking 38 off, so both should be in lineup for now

KMVU 26.1 26.2
old channel 27 still on the air, but removed from lineup
new channel 26 not on the air yet, but is listed in lineup
==> station has STA to keep DTV on channel 27 for several more months. Lineup changed prematurely.

Note that the ONLY lineup change that I've seen so far is the premature change for KMVU from 27 to 26 (which need to get changed back).

One change I've been trying to get added for over a month is a new entry for a low power DTV translator. The station's general manager told me he submitted the info to their listing service, which feeds it to Tribune.

K47LD-D 10.1 10.2 10.3 (translator for KTVL)
channel 47

I did call in the info to TiVo for KOBI, KMVU, and K47LD-D (the others didn't seem urgent). Thanks for any help in getting these changes made!


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

What you are reporting seems to conflict with the FCC Dtabase (updated Feb 18th) as shown here:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=bb88af7e9c

For instance:



> Note that the ONLY lineup change that I've seen so far is the premature change for KMVU from 27 to 26 (which need to get changed back).


The database shows 27 is off the air, and 26.1 is on the air.


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## markens (Apr 12, 2007)

jrm01 said:


> What you are reporting seems to conflict with the FCC Dtabase (updated Feb 18th) as shown here:
> http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=bb88af7e9c


Where does tvfool get its data? Do you know it's reliable?

My report with respect to KMVU is based on two things: (1) what's actually on the air (their DTV signal is, in fact, live on channel 27 and channel 26 is silent). And (2) the content of KMVU's FCC filings, available from fjallfoss.fcc.gov. Their latest form 387, filed Feb 9, states the following:

BROADCASTING LICENSES, LIMITED PARTNERSHIP ('BLLP') IS THE LICENSEE OF KMVU(TV) (NTSC CHANNEL 26) AND KMVU-DT (DTV CHANNEL 27), MEDFORD, OREGON. BLLP HAS ELECTED TO OPERATE KMVU-DT ON ITS NTSC CHANNEL 26 POST-TRANSITION. KMVU-DT WAS GRANTED SPECIAL TEMPORARY AUTHORITY FOR PHASED TRANSITION RELIEF TO ALLOW KMVU-DT TO OPERATE ON ITS PRE-TRANSITION CHANNEL FOR A PERIOD OF TIME POST-TRANSITION. SEE FCC FILE NO. BDSTA-20080530ABJ.

BLLP ANTICIPATES ORDERING ITS NEW ANTENNA AND THE REMAINING EQUIPMENT (A CHANNEL 26 LOW PASS FILTER, STRINGENT MASK FILTER AND OTHER TRANSMISSION COMPONENTS) ON OR ABOUT NOVEMBER 1, 2008, AND EXPECTS DELIVERY OF THAT EQUIPMENT BY FEBRUARY 1, 2009. BLLP ANTICIPATES THAT IT WILL COMPLETE CONSTRUCTION OF KMVU-DT BY THE END OF APRIL 2009, AT WHICH TIME IT WILL CEASE BROADCASTING ON DTV CHANNEL 27.

Expected Operational Date: 04/30/2009​
I suspect tvfool's source of data is for post-transition status without regard to STAs which might affect actual dates, as in this case.

I'll add that I realize I was a bit harsh a few days ago in comments about getting all this updated. Yes, there are lots of data issues to deal with and the delay complicated that greatly. So here's hoping it gets sorted out quickly.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

markens said:


> Where does tvfool get its data? Do you know it's reliable?
> 
> I suspect tvfool's source of data is for post-transition status without regard to STAs which might affect actual dates, as in this case.
> 
> .


tvfool website says they get it directly from FCC database, although I've never seen a direct link to it.

It is just another indicator that it might be a little more difficult getting the correct staus for the conversion than what some people may think to be an easy data entry job.


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## markens (Apr 12, 2007)

jrm01 said:


> It is just another indicator that it might be a little more difficult getting the correct staus for the conversion than what some people may think to be an easy data entry job.


Agreed. The purpose of a database must be understood before relying on it, too.

I have assumed all along (perhaps incorrectly) that data would be verified directly with each station as part of the update process. The DTV transition reports, and FCC summary of them, would have been a good place to start that process, proactively identifying stations with a high probability of requiring updates. Then verifying the data and pushing appropriate updates in a timely manner. This would have been good customer service. But I'm certainly not privy to the business concerns of the parties involved which would affect priorities.

My main frustration is that the reporting/update process is so opaque to customers. And, from various postings in this forum, the response time tends towards the high side. TiVo used to have a lineup change form that doesn't seem to exist anymore, making it more difficult to submit lineup issues. It would be nice to have better insight into how to make the process work better for us.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

markens said:


> Agreed. The purpose of a database must be understood before relying on it, too.
> 
> I have assumed all along (perhaps incorrectly) that data would be verified directly with each station as part of the update process.


have you met our government?  Noticed anything in the newspapers about some budget problems or something like that.


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## markens (Apr 12, 2007)

ZeoTiVo said:


> markens said:
> 
> 
> > I have assumed all along (perhaps incorrectly) that data would be verified directly with each station as part of the update process.
> ...


Yeah, in the overall scheme of things I suppose getting TiVo OTA lineups updated is not a huge issue. Although it does take my mind off those other things... 

But in the sentence quoted, I was actually referring to Tribune Media performing verification of the data they provide to TiVo.


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

Phoenix, AZ

KAZT 7.1-2 Tivo has listing for KAZTDT on 25 but not repeater KAZTCA on 27

KTAZ 39.1 flash cut from analog to digital on 39

KPPX 51.1-4 moved from 52 to 51 their former analog channel


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

markens said:


> But in the sentence quoted, I was actually referring to Tribune Media performing verification of the data they provide to TiVo.


Tribune Media Services. Aren't they part of the Chicago Tribune Company? You know, the one that filed for bankruptcy in December.


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## TVDave2 (May 10, 2002)

jrm01 said:


> Tribune Media Services. Aren't they part of the Chicago Tribune Company? You know, the one that filed for bankruptcy in December.


TiVo is going to be next! I seriously can't believe the crap service they provide lately. Hawaii switched to DTV 5 weeks ago, I called over 2 weeks ago about no guide data because their guide data is screwed up, and they still haven't fixed the problem. They promised it would be fixed in 5-7 days, which in itself is excessively long, but they couldn't even stick to that.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

TVDave2 said:


> TiVo is going to be next! I seriously can't believe the crap service they provide lately. Hawaii switched to DTV 5 weeks ago, I called over 2 weeks ago about no guide data because their guide data is screwed up, and they still haven't fixed the problem. They promised it would be fixed in 5-7 days, which in itself is excessively long, but they couldn't even stick to that.


TiVo has no debt and $100 million in the bank.

That said, I would call twice a week, time permitting, until the problem is fixed.


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## ak66 (Jan 25, 2009)

Let me also add WNAC providence to the list of channels that have switched digital frequencies but haven't updated on the Tivo guide (it still shows up at the old discontinued frequency)...

I have tried to rescan several times with no luck. I am in Boston, but the local Fox channel's signal fluctuates from none to 70&#37; all the time so it's impossible to watch.

Any suggestions on how to update the channels without having to call it in?


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## JimboG (May 27, 2007)

There's no way to update the guide without calling it in. Call Tivo (and expect the CSR not to understand what you want). Then call engineering at WNAC and ask them to call Tribune Media Services.


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## JimPa (Oct 25, 2006)

One of our local channels wcovdt switch their digital frequency from 16 to 20. Their psip station is 20. I've got program guide information on the old 20-1 that is no longer transmitting but not the new 20-1 which is.

Is there any way to report this other than phoning them?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

JimPa said:


> One of our local channels wcovdt switch their digital frequency from 16 to 20. Their psip station is 20. I've got program guide information on the old 20-1 that is no longer transmitting but not the new 20-1 which is.
> 
> Is there any way to report this other than phoning them?


No, you have to call.

You can check the System Information -> DVR Diagnostics menu to see what frequency the TiVo (Tribune) 20-1 points toward.

I'm beginning to think that perhaps there should be a sticky with a list of all reported errors.


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## markens (Apr 12, 2007)

bkdtv said:


> You can check the System Information -> DVR Diagnostics menu to see what frequency the TiVo (Tribune) 20-1 points toward.


It might be easier to get this info from Settings->Channels->Channel List, where they're all listed in one place. Scanned channels (with no program guide info) are shown with a * next to them. Items with no * are in the lineup/program guide. Actual RF channels ("digital frequency") are shown for every digital OTA entry. And you won't have to convert MHz frequency to channel number using this method.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

None of the stations in my area changed frequencies on Feb 17. Of course that didn't stop Tribune from changing one of the frequencies on one of our digital channels. You gotta love Tribune. They break the channels that are working and don't fix the ones that are broke.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

bkdtv said:


> I'm beginning to think that perhaps there should be a sticky with a list of all reported errors.


I agree, how do we make that happen? We really need one spreadsheet to keep track of all of the Tribune guide data mistakes, just for our own knowledge, not that it is likely to help move things along in getting the required changes made.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

I think this affected me too. I had one station (FOX) change to digital-only on the 17th. I lost signal sometime after Wed. I reran a Channel Scan and TiVo shows that the channel is on ATSC frequency 14 which is what Antennaweb.org reports.

But, still no signal at all.

What do I need to tell TiVo to fix this?


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Does anyone have a link to where TiVo put their "report lineup problems" link on their stinkin' new site? It's nowhere to be found within customer support and their "contact us" has no way to actually CONTACT THEM, just stupid articles to read that aren't helpful.


Their new site really sucks!


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## JimPa (Oct 25, 2006)

bkdtv said:


> No, you have to call.
> 
> ...snip..
> 
> I'm beginning to think that perhaps there should be a sticky with a list of all reported errors.


It couldn't hurt.

I find it absurd to not have some sort of email reporting of these changes so we don't have to sit on a phone indefinately trying to catch them during their work hours which is probably the worst time for us to try to call them.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

cwoody222 said:


> I think this affected me too. I had one station (FOX) change to digital-only on the 17th. I lost signal sometime after Wed. I reran a Channel Scan and TiVo shows that the channel is on ATSC frequency 14 which is what Antennaweb.org reports.
> 
> But, still no signal at all.
> 
> What do I need to tell TiVo to fix this?


The first thing you should do is plug the antenna directly into the TV to see if it can pick up the signal. If not, it may be an antenna problem on the new frequency. If you get reception that way, then you need to call TiVo customer support, there is no longer a web form.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

They finally made the change for my guide data, fixing the channel (frequency) for one of my locals that went from UHF back down to VHF on 2/17/09. I did a manual connection last night to TiVo and while I got no message telling me of a lineup change or anything, I went to check the channel lineup as I have done every time I've done a manual connection for the past 5 days and sure enough, they got it fixed and my season passes are all working again.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

jrm01 said:


> The first thing you should do is plug the antenna directly into the TV to see if it can pick up the signal. If not, it may be an antenna problem on the new frequency. If you get reception that way, then you need to call TiVo customer support, there is no longer a web form.


I figured out the station changed frequency. I called TiVo this morning (in addition to emailing Zap2It and the station) to report it.

Really stupid and annoying that something like this wasn't prepared for!


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

cwoody222 said:


> I figured out the station changed frequency. I called TiVo this morning (in addition to emailing Zap2It and the station) to report it.
> 
> Really stupid and annoying that something like this wasn't prepared for!


Did you try plugging the antenna directly into the TV and check for signal. I don't think that correcting the Guide Data is going to help your "no signal" problem.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

I found the signal on another frequency. The problem with the guide data is that the new frequency has no guide data and the old frequency has data.


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## JimboG (May 27, 2007)

Tribune sort of fixed one of my channels this morning. KFMB-DT, my CBS channel here in San Diego, now shows up on digital frequency 8, virtual channel 8-1.

However, KFMB-TV's analog channel 8 still shows up in the guide. Obviously this analog channel no longer is on the air, since that's where the digital channel is.

Tribune still has a lot of bogus or missing data for my market. They need to:
Eliminate analog channel 8, KFMB.
Eliminate analog channel 10, KGTV (local ABC affiliate).
Eliminate subchannel 10-2, KGTVDT2. There hasn't been anything on this sub channel in a long time.
Eliminate subchannel 69-3, KSWB (local Fox affiliate). There hasn't been anything on this subchannel since The Tube network went away two years ago.
Move digital channel 10-1 to physical channel 10 (KGTV-DT).
Add guide data for subchannel 10-15, physical channel 10 (the local Azteca America subchannel, same guide info as KZSD-LP).
Add guide data for subchannel 39-3, physical channel 40 (the Universal Sports subchannel on KNSD-DT).
Add analog channel 35, K35DG, the University of California - San Diego's low power station. Tribune already provides guide data for UCSD TV when it is carried on our local Time Warner Cable system on channel 135. Shouldn't be too hard to mirror the data from the local cable systems over to over the air channel 35.

I'm glad I finally have guide information for my local CBS HD station. I have more Season Passes on this channel than any other channel in my line up. However, it is frustrating that there are so many things that are so badly messed up with my local guide data. I'm paying Tivo every month for accurate guide data. Tribune isn't doing a very good job providing accurate info and talking with Tivo CSR's doesn't seem to fix the problem.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

If Tribune fixes one channel that you reported, but not another, then I would call again about the other channels.

I would emphasize any issues with the ABC/CBS/FOX/NBC channels first.


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## OHSam2008 (Nov 5, 2008)

On this particular issue, I blame the FCC for rescheduling the digital switchover date. It was perfectly fine where it was. Those people who weren't ready -- still aren't going to be ready in June. If they don't get their beloved soap operas and Judge Judy's for a day, they'll make the switch within 24 hours!

My particular market appears to only have ONE channel that's going to utilize it's original frequency. When the delay was announced, all my locals said they were going ahead with the original date as was THEIR option per the delay wording. Then with just four days to go, the stupid FCC swooped in and told the market that NONE of the channels could make the switch in February because according to Neilsen, not enough households in the market were ready! What a crock! Leave it up to the FCC to mess up my TiVo! 

LOL...but now I can't record any of my Season Passes for CBS with my TiVo HD. 

Luckily my Series 2 with a converter box doesn't have this problem. Channel 7.1 is channel 7.1 regardless.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

OHSam2008 said:


> On this particular issue, I blame the FCC for rescheduling the digital switchover date.


So how come Tribune is changing frequencies on channels that were NEVER going to change frequencies? There is no excuse for doing that regardless of when the transition was suppose to happen.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

cwoody222 said:


> Does anyone have a link to where TiVo put their "report lineup problems" link on their stinkin' new site? It's nowhere to be found within customer support and their "contact us" has no way to actually CONTACT THEM, just stupid articles to read that aren't helpful.


Read the zillion other threads.. they took that page down long ago. You have to call them.


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## JimPa (Oct 25, 2006)

....or post it here as I did. Never could get through to report the issue, yet this morning the program guide information was correctly tied to the new frequency assignment.

I can't help but believe that TIVO got it from my earlier post in this thread.


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

Folks, as you know there were hundreds of antenna stations that stuck with the original 2/17 cutover date. Tribune proactively contacted them and requested their frequency data but a significant portion of the stations did not bother to reply. Tribune has sent us updates as soon as they have been able to confirm the correct information.

We've been told that a large antenna data update is coming that should be available for you to download starting Wednesday night. Hopefully this will resolve the majority of issues being reported in this thread.

If your problem has not been resolved by Thursday, 2/26, I suggest you try the following steps before reporting a lineup issue:
1> Make a service connection and allow it to complete successfully
2> Restart your DVR

If your problem is resolved, you may still have an entry in the channel list that corresponds to the old frequency. To remove it from your list entirely, delete the scanned channels.

If your problem persists, and you've already reported it to customer support, we ask for you to be patient a little longer while the data is confirmed with the provider. If it's not moving quickly enough, you may wish to contact the station to make sure they're communicating with Tribune regarding the update request.

***One important note:* I've seen a situation where you can tune to a channel and see guide data but no video for a different reason. 
When tuned to the affected channel, the diagnostic screen shows good signal strength AND signal lock, but NO PROGRAM LOCK, it's possible that the station is not meeting the ATSC specification, for example, the transportsStreamId in the TVCT does not match the transportStreamId in the PAT. Since the stations have been changing their configurations during the transition, it's more possible that they've made a mistake.


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## markens (Apr 12, 2007)

TiVoJerry, thanks very much for the status update. This helps understand what's going on behind the scenes!


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## ccrider2 (Nov 1, 2007)

The TiVo is the greatest invention since sliced bread, but I've got a feeling broadcasters don't care to keep their guide info in order.... knowing that its users are going to skip-through their commercials.

Just a hunch,


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

TiVoJerry said:


> Folks, as you know there were hundreds of antenna stations that stuck with the original 2/17 cutover date. Tribune proactively contacted them and requested their frequency data but a significant portion of the stations did not bother to reply. Tribune has sent us updates as soon as they have been able to confirm the correct information.


Since this is going to happen again in June, I'm curious... Why would Tribune rely on calling the station and asking for their frequency when that information is available publicly? AFAIK, these stations filed their plans to cutover with the FCC and also filed to change frequencies.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Eek! I just got a brand new Tivo HD XL...and ran into the problem described in this thread.

I'm in the Peoria IL market, zip of 61550, and:

25-1 is wrong. (WEEK, the NBC affiliate) Tivo thinks it should be on 25, but it's really on 57 (weirdly, 25-2 Tivo has correctly as 57)

47-1, 47-2, and 47-3 are all wrong. (WTVP, the PBS affiliate) Tivo thinks they should be on 47, but they're really all on 46.

Initially when I set the Tivo up, I thought it was bizarre that those stations wouldn't' come in-so I run a scan manually, and it finds all four. I thought that would be that-I unchecked the incorrect versions of the stations, but soon discovered the correct ones have no guide data, so basically my Tivo can't use them...so I came here, and found this thread.

So...what do I do? Obviously I need this fixed fast. I'd want it fixed fast anyway, but I'm returning it if I can't actually use two of my favorite networks (I hardly ever watch CBS and honestly could wait a week to get that fixed...)

Also, why can this happen? Shouldn't the Tivo software not care what frequency it's actually broadcasting at? I mean shouldn't' it just go "oh that's 25-1, here's the guide data for it" even if it jumps around between 12 channels?

What's worrying too is I don't think this transition is finished. I think a lot of these networks are making at least one more frequency change within the next few months. I'm worried-even if Tivo fixes this, what if they never fix it after the next channel change? What if I'm stuck with an $800+ brick because the channel guide is incorrect?


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

Let me add to the complaints. I cannot believe Tivo, Inc. _STILL_ takes Tribune's word as a Biblical Authority on channel data. Over the last 10 years, they have been flat out, without any margin of excuse, completely WRONG thousands of times. This has been happening for years. The first time Tribune screwed up "digital transition" information was many years ago (making almost as big a mess all over the country); it cost me a year of tv shows on my S1 -- for which I am still royally p***ed. Being a S1, I could very easily fix the channel object(s) -- and _delete_ dynUpdate.tcl so it will never again screw with the channel lineup. (in later releases, they removed the tcl in favor of "compiled tcl" built into the tivoapp and thus cannot be disabled.) It took Tivo, Inc. weeks to fix it even after being shown the station's FCC broadcast license clearly showing they were wrong. If Tivo, Inc. is still using the same systems as back then when it was not possible to correct mistakes in the upstream data, then there are a few people who should be taken out and shot.

I'll grant you, Obama and Congress have created an unmeasurable cluster f*** by breaking everything that had been put in place for months pretty much at the very last second. I say Tivo, Inc. owes us a refund for the week long screwup. And Tivo, Inc. should, in turn, bill Obama and every congress critter who voted yes.

In my case (Raleigh-Durham, NC), 22 and 28 are screwed up. AGAIN. They didn't move. 22 is not on RF27, 28 still is. 28 cannot move to RF28 until they turn off the analog broadcast. 22 cannot move to RF27 until 28 _stops using it_ -- and the fact that you have 28 in the headend as both analog and digital should be setting off an alarm or error somewhere; in fact, it's impossible as the FCC will not license the same RF freq in neighboring DMAs. 22 is still on RF57. And no, I'm not at all surprised they ignored Tribune -- they don't bother telling anyone when they change their lineup, either.



Adam1115 said:


> Since this is going to happen again in June, I'm curious... Why would Tribune rely on calling the station and asking for their frequency when that information is available publicly? AFAIK, these stations filed their plans to cutover with the FCC and also filed to change frequencies.


And then changed them at the very last second. _WHEN_ a station is going to cut-over is no longer public information. They _were_ all going to change on the 17th, but then Obama had to screw it all up by changing that deadline at the last second leading to the massive confusion of who's changing and who's not. Add to this the domino effect caused by stations who's perm digital broadcast license is for their existing analog frequency.

If I were a station manager/owner, I'd've told congress to shove it and switch anyway. Running two transmitters is expensive.

[UPDATE] Actually looking at what they're broadcasting on the analog towers (BOTH OF THEM)... a continuous loop of "buy a converter" transition infomercial. I cannot believe these morons. Neither of them can broadcast at full power until they stop this crap.

[CORRECTION] "Some stations still plan to go digital on Feb. 17" So, in truth, they lied. "Going digital" is turning off the analog transmission, and moving your digital broadcasts to your full power licensed frequency.

PS: BTW, Tivo. There is no 28-2. There hasn't been a 28-2 for almost 2 years. It *was* the now defunct 80's music video channel ("The Tube")


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

You HAVE to call TiVo to get the problem fixed. And be prepared for a 5 business days turn-around.

Call early to get it fixed as fast as possible.

Still stupid this happened but it's not helping to complain here. Call TiVo, they'll fix it, and then move on.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Thanks  Well, I'll try to call tonight if I get a chance, but I'm going to have to return this certainly by Monday if it's not working  I wouldn't even have a real chance to test it.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

Puppy76 said:


> Also, why can this happen? Shouldn't the Tivo software not care what frequency it's actually broadcasting at? I mean shouldn't' it just go "oh that's 25-1, here's the guide data for it" even if it jumps around between 12 channels?


Before the digital transition frequency change woes many of us have experienced recently, the underlying issue has been floating around since the fall of 2006, if you look up threads about why we aren't able to get guide data for QAM channels. It comes down how the TiVo software programmers chose to associate each of our tuned in channels, be it OTA or QAM, with guide data provided to them by Tribune Media Services. We all have wished there was a way for us customers to fix our own guide data problems, but instead, we all have to call TiVo support and hope they understand what we are telling them *and* hope the information was relayed properly to Tribune *and* that Tribune actually understands the issue *and* that Tribune actually makes the changes correctly. In other words, there are a lot of ways the process can get messed up. It is the way it is, though, and I stopped fighting the good fight on this issue a very long time ago.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

Puppy76 said:


> Thanks  Well, I'll try to call tonight if I get a chance, but I'm going to have to return this certainly by Monday if it's not working  I wouldn't even have a real chance to test it.


tivo will have it fixed. but it might take time. im only having a problem with 1 channel. and there will be no more freq changes where i live

also you could try a better antenna. Im using the clearstream 2 antenna. its an outdoor antenna but i have it hanging on my inside wall of my condo.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

The antenna's not the problem though. Just Tivo's channel mapping stuff (why on Earth doesn't it just accept that 25-1 is 25-1 regardless of what frequency it's on?!?)

And I'll call tonight or tomorrow, but I just can't risk this if it's not working FAST. I bought a Series 3 about two years ago, and it didn't work right-major issues with the audio if I'm remembering right. I've heard of issues still with this platform-especially with transferring shows off of it, failures during that process, etc., so I need to be able to really test it, and fast.

Had I known about this, I never would have tried it again


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## JFKLS1 (Feb 25, 2009)

Wow, it looks like I found the right thread. I am in central Illinois and have the same problem as most. I get all my programming on 2 tivos OTA only and on Friday last week all the frequencies changed. I rescanned and they are all there now but on different frequencies and no guide data at all. I called tivo and was given a case # and a tribune media case # as well. The tech wanted 3 examples of my channels of which I get about 15, so I hope that they are all included. Does anyone know how long it takes if at all to take effect? I have had no guide for a week now..... Thanks for any help.


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

Puppy76 said:


> 25-1 is wrong. (WEEK, the NBC affiliate) Tivo thinks it should be on 25, but it's really on 57 (weirdly, 25-2 Tivo has correctly as 57)


Wikipedia and tvfool list WEEK on digital channel 25, so I'm not surprised that it may take a bit to sort this out. This also answers the question on why tribune has to call the stations to get confirmation. I'm assuming tvfool is getting the data from the FCC, so the "published" frequency isn't correct.



Puppy76 said:


> So...what do I do? Obviously I need this fixed fast. I'd want it fixed fast anyway, but I'm returning it if I can't actually use two of my favorite networks.


You're certainly within your right to return it if it's not working for you, but personally, I'd stick it out. As long as you're able to tune to the channel at the new broadcast frequencies, you know the box itself is working. The guide data will eventually catch up.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Puppy76 said:


> Thanks  Well, I'll try to call tonight if I get a chance, but I'm going to have to return this certainly by Monday if it's not working  I wouldn't even have a real chance to test it.


As alluded to above, a surprisingly large amount of the published channel information at FCC.gov and tvfool is *simply wrong*.

These issues affect more than just TiVo. They affect every DVR that relies on Tribune's published mapping information, including Windows Media Center and DVRs from Dish Network and DirecTV (with OTA signals)

This issues should be fixed, and fixed relatively soon. It may be fixed with the Wednesday night update mentioned above; if not, chances are it will be fixed by next Monday if you call TiVo and report it today. I'm not sure what you gain by returning the unit before then. You certainly gain a lot by having a TiVo, once the guide data is fixed.

It's not like this is going to be an recurring thing. We only have one analog analog shutoff (ok, make that two  ).



cramer said:


> Let me add to the complaints. I cannot believe Tivo, Inc. _STILL_ takes Tribune's word as a Biblical Authority on channel data. Over the last 10 years, they have been flat out, without any margin of excuse, completely WRONG thousands of times. This has been happening for years.


Tribune has its issues, but they are the best of the available choices. With FYI -- one of the alternatives -- new episodes are _regularly_ labeled as repeats, repeats are _regularly_ labeled as new episodes, program schedules are periodically off by 24 hours, and program titles and descriptions are frequently wrong on major cable and sports channels like TNT, FX, HBO, ESPN, and RSNs.

Quite frankly, TiVo users are spoiled with Tribune. TiVo customers are experiencing problems with the digital switchover, but so are those with other products. But TiVo users haven't been subject to the problems that FYI guide users deal with on a _weekly_ basis.


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## JFKLS1 (Feb 25, 2009)

To Puppy76, I wouldn't take it back. This is just temporary. I know how frustrating it is. You can always make manual recordings by time and channel. That is what I have been doing for the last week.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Someone asked why TiVo doesn't simply rely on the PSIP data from broadcasters to map their channels. For newer HD viewers, this may sound like a better approach. Those that have been watching and/or recording DTV/HDTV for the last 5-10 years know otherwise.

PSIP data has been notoriously unreliable in the past. If you just watch your TV's tuner periodically, you may never notice. Watching and recording with other [now discontinued] PSIP-based DVRs was not nearly as reliable, because stations would periodically change or disable their PSIP during maintenance, resulting in failed recordings.

Tribune's remapping works very well as long as frequency assignments don't change -- which they don't, under normal circumstances. Now, those frequency assignments are changing with the analog shutoff, so TiVo and other customers are dependent upon Tribune to make the necessary changes to their mappings. When published changes aren't always in line with actual changes, that creates problems that can only be resolved with customer feedback.

Now, it is possible that broadcasters will make dependable PSIP remapping a priority after the analog shutoff. At that point, perhaps TiVo and Tribune will re-evaluate how they handle off-air signals. However, until that happens, I think it's premature to talk about a change.


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## LoREvanescence (Jun 19, 2007)

Well, my guide data today went from good to bad. Frequencies changed for channels that did not change their frequency. So now my guide data is bad for abc and one of the two pbs networks I get.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Thanks for that explination about why the uh...PSID or whatever it's called  can't be used. I wish it could at least let you remap or something-I mean it's already halfway there just by letting you manually scan and enable/disable channels.

Well, I called. They guy at first claimed I couldn't report this without activating service, and then finally let me report it. (He also claimed it wouldn't work at all without service, and that's why there was no guide data-and I'm like it is pulling in data, just not for these 2 stations (4 counting substations). He claims it'll be a week for Tribune to investigate it or whatever.

The thing is, this is NOT done. Many of these stations are changing again I think WEEK here is changing again in March, WHOI in June probably, and I think at least one or two more are changing too (that's the NBC and ABC affiliates). Apparently that means even if Tribune fixes it now, they'll break again in March, then again in June, then who knows when else. (Can't you remap this stuff with like Vista's Media center or something?)

If this gets fixed soon...I mean do I gamble that it'll get fixed soon again in March? and again, etc.? There are people saying they've reported this type of thing a month ago and still have no guide data, basically making Tivo just a dumb recording device at BEST.

And even if they do fix it, you have to call it in yourself and spend forever trying to explain it, and then wait a week?

I think if I do decide to keep it, I'm going to go monthly instead of buying Lifetime...I'll wait until after June spend the $300 (I assume you can still upgrade it), as that way at least I'll be out $200+ less if I end up with a brick...I mean all told this is going to cost me almost $900. I do want it to work!



JFKLS1 said:


> Wow, it looks like I found the right thread. I am in central Illinois and have the same problem as most. I get all my programming on 2 tivos OTA only and on Friday last week all the frequencies changed. I rescanned and they are all there now but on different frequencies and no guide data at all. I called tivo and was given a case # and a tribune media case # as well. The tech wanted 3 examples of my channels of which I get about 15, so I hope that they are all included. Does anyone know how long it takes if at all to take effect? I have had no guide for a week now..... Thanks for any help.


Yay! At least I'm not in this alone! 

The guy I talked to claimed 7 days (and he didn't give me a case number or anything, and said "if Tribune finds that there really is a problem" or something like that).

So you're getting NO guide data at all?

Mine (turned on for the first time last night) gets everything right except 25-1, 47-1, 47-2, and 47-3.

25-1 it thinks is on 25, it's really on 57. (Weirdly, 25-2, the weather station thing DOES have guide data-it knows it's on 57)
47-1 through 3 it thinks are on 47, but they're really all on 46.

I'll go try to schedule some manual recordings I guess. Unfortunately these are two of my favorite networks! The last time I watched CBS was a year ago when Moonlight ended...it would have to be the networks I actually watch a lot! 

I feel like I'm being really negative on here (and with the guy on the phone...I mean I wasn't a jerk, but my voice wasn't as nice of a tone as I would have liked). Sorry, this is just...expensive for me, and TV's a big part of my life, and I'm already worried the HD XL won't work, or even if this stuff is working, the Tivo To Go stuff won't work right (and I watch about half my stuff on my laptop, so I really need Tivotogo to work  )


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## JFKLS1 (Feb 25, 2009)

Yes this really blows!!! I have been watching the networks in HD for almost 3 years now. All of the sudden they turn off the analog, which does not matter at all and my guide is gone. I tivo practically every show on the networks except reality nonsense and now it is a pain in the $#@ to make manual recordings, and the best part is they are not named so I have to figure out what is what and which order to watch them in. I have a feeling it is going to be quite a while before this is corrected. I will be on the phone with tivo every day until then....


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Guys,

Turning off analog did not cause this. Your local station changing frequencies of their digital signal did. They basically decided - without informing Tribune - "we're gonna broadcast on a different channel from now on".

Just call TiVo. Explain the situation calmly. Wait a few days. It'll be fixed.

I can't imagine it'll happen more than once per station (because there's no reason a station would change frequencies more than once). And it'll only happens once IF your local station changes frequency and IF they do it without proper notification.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Puppy76 said:


> The guy I talked to claimed 7 days (and he didn't give me a case number or anything, and said "if Tribune finds that there really is a problem" or something like that).


You should have gotten a case number. If you call back, get one. I got one. And if it's not fixed in 5 days (the date they gave me), I will call back.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

cwoody222 said:


> Guys,
> 
> Turning off analog did not cause this. Your local station changing frequencies of their digital signal did. They basically decided - without informing Tribune - "we're gonna broadcast on a different channel from now on".


No. One of my channels never changed frequencies and never will change frequencies. But Tribune decided to change the frequency themselves.



cwoody222 said:


> Just call TiVo. Explain the situation calmly. Wait a few days. It'll be fixed.


Now Tribune with its great "Wednesday" update only fixed one of the sub channels. Tribune can't even be bothered to fix the frequency on all the sub channels.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

In San Francisco Bay Area, KOFY 20.1 on Frequency 20 is now on Frequency 19 and no guide data.


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## JFKLS1 (Feb 25, 2009)

Thx cwoody222, I got a case # for tivo and one for Tribune. I have been without a guide for ALL of my channels for a week now. Mine are all OTA, and have been out since the "switch". I realize that losing the analog is irrelevant, but the digital ones switching frequencies is. I explained it to the tivo tech, and he wanted 3 examples. I told him and he said he would forward it. I receive channels from 2 markets, and all have no guide data any more. About 16 channels total. This is totally ridiculous. Oh well, hopefully it will be resolved soon.....


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

JFKLS1 said:


> I receive channels from 2 markets, and all have no guide data any more. About 16 channels total. This is totally ridiculous. Oh well, hopefully it will be resolved soon.....


WOW! There were 16 channels in your area that have changed frequencies? I thought each market was only going to have a couple of changes at most. In case there are tivo people monitoring this thread, what are the specific channels that are wrong?


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## JFKLS1 (Feb 25, 2009)

3.1 WCIA-DT CBS
17.1 WAND-DT NBC
19.1 WHOI-DT ABC
20.1 WICS-DT ABC
23.1 WBUI-DT WB
25.1 WEEK-DT NBC 
31.1 WMBD-DT CBS
55.1 WRSP-DT FOX

The only one I still get guide data for now is WYZZ-DT Fox 43.1
I can actually go into the channel editor and enable the other copies of the channels with the guide data but they will not tune. I did not include the 6 PBS channels either.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

So, noticed this morning some guide data, some not. It took me a minute to figure this out. They seemed to swapped the frequency back to the old channel. For example - last Monday my PBS 10-1 was on frequency X with guide data. It had changed to frequency Y so a rescan showed that channel, but without guide data. So I manually unchecked 10-1 with frequency X (as it wasn't there anymore, yet had guide data) and checked 10-1 with frequency Y (which tuned but had no guide data). This morning the channel I had checked in my available channels list didn't tune (and did last night). It seems they swapped frequencies back to the old channel (the old channel 10-1 on frequency X now was assigned frequency Y instead) that had guide data (and this makes sense for most users, the steps I took would probably confuse most people. For most that weren't getting the channel this would 'fix it' with no steps by the user). Probably it was always intended this way, but if you've done a rescan you might think things quit working.

So if you've rescanned, checked/unchecked you may need to go back to the old station. Unless my PBS went back to the old frequency the same day as the new guide data push. The annoying thing is they fixed some stations and not others.


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## Elmer Fudd (Aug 19, 2007)

I have had guide data problems for three local OTA stations in the Birmingham, AL market. The guide data was reporting the incorrect digital frequency for the virtual frequency listing for the channels, so each appeared twice in the channel listing.

I have called TIVO CS multiple times to report the issue, as well as calling the enginnering department at the local stations to urge them to correct the issue with Tribune.

After the Wed. night update, two of the three problems are fixed. One is not fixed - WTTO, the CW affiliate at virtual channels 21-1 and 21-2. It is transmitting on digital frequency 28, but TIVO/Tribune mistakenly has them on digital frequency 21.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

Elmer Fudd said:


> I have had guide data problems for three local OTA stations in the Birmingham, AL market. The guide data was reporting the incorrect digital frequency for the virtual frequency listing for the channels, so each appeared twice in the channel listing.
> 
> I have called TIVO CS multiple times to report the issue, as well as calling the enginnering department at the local stations to urge them to correct the issue with Tribune.
> 
> After the Wed. night update, two of the three problems are fixed. One is not fixed - WTTO, the CW affiliate at virtual channels 21-1 and 21-2. It is transmitting on digital frequency 28, but TIVO/Tribune mistakenly has them on digital frequency 21.


Holy cats a Birmingham customer! I knew of PBS and WTTO, what was the other channel which I apparently didn't notice? Completely off topic, but are you using a cable provider? If so, which one?


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

Why did tivo have to reboot to fix the ota stuff? It did fix my channel but theres no sub channel for it. guess i will have wait for that to get fixed.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

I lost one channel that was working before the update 2.1 st. louis is on freq 43 but tivo now thinks its on 41. how can i get tivo to change the freq back to 43?

I need this channel this is worse then before.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

tootal2 said:


> I lost one channel that was working before the update 2.1 st. louis is on freq 43 but tivo now thinks its on 41. how can i get tivo to change the freq back to 43?
> 
> I need this channel this is worse then before.


You need to put in a call to TiVo.

Unless you tell them about the problem, they don't know there is one.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

bkdtv said:


> As alluded to above, a surprisingly large amount of the published channel information at FCC.gov and tvfool is *simply wrong*.


I just checked TVFool and it is wrong for one channel in my area. And... that error is the same as the error in my TiVo channel list.


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## aus1ander (Sep 17, 2004)

My channel frequency issue was fixed today in the "big update" that TiVoJerry told us about.


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## mccoady (Dec 8, 2002)

I also had been having problems since the digital switchover (all my locals switched) with my ABC (10-1) and PBS (8-1,8-2,8-3) not showing up in my Guide so I called Tivo a week ago and registered a complaint on my channels. Last night after the data download I now get my ABC (10-1) like I should but not the PBS channels.

When I scan for channels it picks up the PBS channels and if I go to the signal strength meter and bring up all three PBS channels it has a good signal strength plus I'm actually getting the station in the background like you should.

So since they don't show up in my Guide does this mean Tribune still has the frequency wrong and I need to call Tivo again? I already rescanned and rebooted.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

aus1ander said:


> My channel frequency issue was fixed today in the "big update" that TiVoJerry told us about.


Mine werent... Channels 22 and 28 are wrong....


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Where's the original post about this Wed update? I missed it.

My TiVo had rebooted this morning so I got the update. No change in my incorrect data.

When's the next update?


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## markens (Apr 12, 2007)

cwoody222 said:


> Where's the original post about this Wed update? I missed it.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7094032#post7094032


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## ccrider2 (Nov 1, 2007)

Same boat....called TiVo Monday....No case #....6 chnls w/o guide info...sucks. :down:
Even worse, its gonna keep happening every time a broadcaster changes assignments. By June I'll be down to an $800 door stop.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

tootal2 said:


> Why did tivo have to reboot to fix the ota stuff? .


The software update has nothing to do with the guide data update.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

ccrider2 said:


> Same boat....called TiVo Monday....No case #....6 chnls w/o guide info...sucks. :down:
> Even worse, its gonna keep happening every time a broadcaster changes assignments. By June I'll be down to an $800 door stop.


With rare exception, a broadcaster only changes assignments once.


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## ccrider2 (Nov 1, 2007)

Congrats!

Nothing fixed here....When's the next update ?


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## ccrider2 (Nov 1, 2007)

bkdtv said:


> With rare exception, a broadcaster only changes assignments once.


Well, maybe true for the broadcasters, but not quite true for the TiVo. My broadcasters haven't changed.....yet TIVO thinks they have. So the TiVo will need to change *twice*, now....and again when the broadcasters finally do.


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## ggersch (Oct 7, 2006)

I've taken the suggestions of this thread and emailed Zap2It/TMS, and opened a case with Tivo. But I think big chunks of this go back to the source, TMS.

I also emailed the station I'm having an issue, KTCA/TPT PBS on St. Paul Comcast. They actually sent a nice reply that stated they were aware of the issue. But, that THEY are having trouble getting TMS to update the schedule.

If the source TV station can't get TMS to update their schedule, then what chance does TiVo or we lowly viewers have?


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

For the Greater San Francisco Bay Area;

http://www.choisser.com/

This site lists the TV OTA Channels Pre and Post Analog shutoff as well as the tower configurations.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

Elmer Fudd said:


> After the Wed. night update, two of the three problems are fixed. One is not fixed - WTTO, the CW affiliate at virtual channels 21-1 and 21-2. It is transmitting on digital frequency 28, but TIVO/Tribune mistakenly has them on digital frequency 21.


Well, I totally forgot about something I knew about and remembered about again this evening. For $20 a year, but free for the first 7 days, you can actually subscribe to Tribune's Zap2It guide data for your own uses with various open-source apps. http://www.schedulesdirect.org/

So, using the java xmltv app, when you pull down the raw xml guide data for your 35209 zip code, you're right, they still list WTTO as channel 21 as of Thursday evening. If you were to e-mail Zap2It with lineup problems, the "id" attribute value for WTTO-DT is 35973 and WTTO-DT2 is 58346. For each "station" node, their data has a "fccChannelNumber" node that should be the actual frequency the channel is tuned in at. For those two DTV stations of yours, they list the fccChannelNumber as 21.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

ccrider2 said:


> Same boat....called TiVo Monday....No case #....6 chnls w/o guide info...sucks. :down:
> Even worse, its gonna keep happening every time a broadcaster changes assignments. By June I'll be down to an $800 door stop.


Yeah, that's what I'm scared of too.

I've double checked, and nothing was fixed in this Wednesday update for the Peoria market.

I don't know what to do, because apperently Vista's media center doesn't let you fix this type of thing either?

This is stupid though. Tivo needs to fix it. It needs to be fixed within an hour of calling them. None of this "we'll contact Tribune, a week later, blah blah" stuff. It's their product, they know what's wrong with the data, they could come up with a way to fix it-that is if they refuse to let us fix it ourselves.

This current process is just not acceptable.


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## JFKLS1 (Feb 25, 2009)

I agree Puppy, 3 years of flawless tivo service and now nothing but headaches. I have 2 tivos and no guide data on either of them for a week now. I am optimistic so I will hope for the best. On a positive note, I do like looking at my now playing list and seeing dozens of manual recordings.........


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

Its 9 days now for a lot of people, Tivo should override Tribune's data even if only temporarily.

The stations FCC filing should be good enough if a station won't work with Tribune. It should be reasonably accurate to figure out their plans, if a station doesn't fear fines from the FCC for not filling correctly then there isn't much you can do.

My two locals that transitioned on 2/17 have FCC filings documenting it at http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_sear.htm


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## Ronio (May 12, 2008)

I have the same issue with my PBS & NBC station. I also called and the CSR acted like this is no big deal and they weren't getting many calls on it. Urgh!

Is there anyway to schedule recordings when you don't have guide data? Like the old fashion VCR way. Every Saturday, 11:00pm - 11:59pm, Channel 46.1?

Ron


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

Yes, Find Programs, Record by Time or Channel, Set Up Manual Recording

You will need to have done a channel scan and when creating the timer be sure you have selected the scanned channel rather than the tivo provided one.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Ronio said:


> schedule recordings when you don't have guide data? Like the old fashion VCR way. Every Saturday, 11:00pm - 11:59pm, Channel 46.1?


Find Programs -> Record by Time or Channel -> Set Up Manual Recording.

If you are new to TiVo, be sure to see the tips link in my signature.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

bkdtv said:


> Find Programs -> Record by Time or Channel -> Set Up Manual Recording.
> 
> If you are new to TiVo, be sure to see the tips link in my signature.


The scanned channels are idenified by a * in the Channel List.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

TiVoJerry said:


> Folks, as you know there were hundreds of antenna stations that stuck with the original 2/17 cutover date. Tribune proactively contacted them and requested their frequency data but a significant portion of the stations did not bother to reply. Tribune has sent us updates as soon as they have been able to confirm the correct information.


Did they CALL every station? What did they do if they did not "bother to reply"?

I mean, TMS's ENTIRE BUSINESS is accurate television listings.

You'd think that for something like the 2/17 that had been KNOWN FOR MONTHS (if not YEARS) they would have had dozens if not hundreds of temps calling these stations and not taking "No" for an answer.

No excuse. At all.

Tomorrow is my 5th business day. I'll be calling with my case # if my single station is not fixed.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Oh - and BTW Jerry - for the next "deadline" date there will be THOUSANDS of antenna stations doing the same thing.

What's the plan? What's the contingency plan? How will similar issues be avoided or improved?


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

TiVoJerry said:


> When tuned to the affected channel, the diagnostic screen


How does one access the "diagnostic screen"?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

cwoody222 said:


> How does one access the "diagnostic screen"?


System Information -> DVR Diagnostics


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Ronio said:


> I have the same issue with my PBS & NBC station. I also called and the CSR acted like this is no big deal and they weren't getting many calls on it. Urgh!
> 
> Is there anyway to schedule recordings when you don't have guide data? Like the old fashion VCR way. Every Saturday, 11:00pm - 11:59pm, Channel 46.1?
> 
> Ron


Are you in the Peoria area too? Those are the same channels and same frequency even! (If you are, that's THREE of us just in this thread!)

And as someone mentioned, you can manually record things, but doing that you lose much of what makes Tivo so great. It doesn't show up as anything but the recording time in Now Playing (I just started doing this last night and already have to think about what show that might be)-plus have to figure out if it's a repeat on your own, etc.

This is just ridiculous. Tivo needs to fix it. If they're not going to let us manually tell it what guide data to use for a given channel, they need to be able to remap it while you're talking to them on the phone, so that within the hour it's working, even if they just override it on a customer by customer basis.

I mean...I don't know what to do here. I only have 4 days left before I need to activate, and I can't even access four stations yet, or even finish recreating my Season Pass list (while I was doing it, I'm like "Hey wait, where's Heroes?")

If I do end up activating, I think I'll just do it for a month-go monthly through June, when maybe most of this settles down, before activating lifetime.

But I also feel really dumb keeping a product that doesn't actually work right, when I have no guarantee it ever will, and basically a guarantee this will happen at least two or three more times. 

Ironically I thought it was going to be ABC that I didn't get right. They're broadcasting really low power here until after they shut off analog in June, when they're going to change frequencies and apparently more than double their power. Instead I don't have guide data for four of the strongest channels.


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

There is a 30 day window to cancel lifetime if the problem isn't resolved to your satisfaction before the store return period expires.


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

cwoody222 said:


> Oh - and BTW Jerry - for the next "deadline" date there will be THOUSANDS of antenna stations doing the same thing.


Huh? A bit of a hyperbole here. There are roughly 1800 stations, and about 1/3 have already transitioned. Thus, there are about 1200 possible frequency changes, and some number of those aren't changing their digital frequencies.


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

Puppy76 said:


> This is stupid though. Tivo needs to fix it. It needs to be fixed within an hour of calling them. None of this "we'll contact Tribune, a week later, blah blah" stuff. It's their product, they know what's wrong with the data, they could come up with a way to fix it-that is if they refuse to let us fix it ourselves.





kb7oeb said:


> Its 9 days now for a lot of people, Tivo should override Tribune's data even if only temporarily.


As I said previously, unless Tivo, Inc. has changed their processing, they have no means of correcting the data from Tribune -- there is no pre-processing where their mistakes can be corrected. Not that they want to as that would require people to stay on top of the list of (ever growing) corrections. A phone call/email to Tribune is a lot easier.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Well, they're going to lose customers over this. This is THEIR problem since it's THEIR product, and they have the ability to fix it even with incorrect guide data. The current system is just absurd, this shouldn't ever be getting brought to an end users attention, and if it is, it's something they should be fixing while on the phone.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

Puppy76 said:


> Are you in the Peoria area too? Those are the same channels and same frequency even! (If you are, that's THREE of us just in this thread!)
> 
> And as someone mentioned, you can manually record things, but doing that you lose much of what makes Tivo so great. It doesn't show up as anything but the recording time in Now Playing (I just started doing this last night and already have to think about what show that might be)-plus have to figure out if it's a repeat on your own, etc.
> 
> ...


Take the heat off yourself. Return the TiVo for now and let the current chaos settle itself out, probably not until the mandated June 12 cutover is a done deal.


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

Puppy76 said:


> The current system is just absurd, this shouldn't ever be getting brought to an end users attention, and if it is, it's something they should be fixing while on the phone.


I disagree with you.

Certainly their upgrade process could be faster, and it's extremely frustrating when you're hit with any kind of lineup problem. BUT, I really don't want my guide data to be immediately changed because someone in my area calls up tivo to tell them there's a mistake. Sorry, I just don't trust the average user calling support (and don't trust the front line support person taking the call to get it right either). I want someone to do the research and confirm the data is accurate before making the change. While it means the fixes will be slower in the coming, it also means in the long run, they'll be more accurate.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Roderigo said:


> Certainly their upgrade process could be faster, and it's extremely frustrating when you're hit with any kind of lineup problem. BUT, I really don't want my guide data to be immediately changed because someone in my area calls up tivo to tell them there's a mistake. Sorry, I just don't trust the average user calling support (and don't trust the front line support person taking the call to get it right either). I want someone to do the research and confirm the data is accurate before making the change. While it means the fixes will be slower in the coming, it also means in the long run, they'll be more accurate.


I would love to know who Tribune confirmed with and made changes for stations that are never changing frequencies. They certainly didn't talk to the stations themselves to get the wrong information. It appears Tribune really screwed up this process by not planning for this situation at all. Sure, they shouldn't take a consumer's word for it. But there are plenty of places to confirm this situation but I highly doubt they are using any of it based on the screw ups we have seen so far.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Roderigo said:


> I disagree with you.
> 
> Certainly their upgrade process could be faster, and it's extremely frustrating when you're hit with any kind of lineup problem. BUT, I really don't want my guide data to be immediately changed because someone in my area calls up tivo to tell them there's a mistake. Sorry, I just don't trust the average user calling support (and don't trust the front line support person taking the call to get it right either). I want someone to do the research and confirm the data is accurate before making the change. While it means the fixes will be slower in the coming, it also means in the long run, they'll be more accurate.


Maybe, but they're not doing a good job of it-and that's why I think they should just do it on a case by case basis. Someone calls up, the rep remaps it temporarily right then on the phone for them, and investigates it with Tribune or whatever.

That's an absolute MINIMUM they should be doing. Really it shouldn't be reaching that point, and/or they should allow you to remap data-at least if the channel number is the same, at a bare minimum.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Puppy76 said:


> Maybe, but they're not doing a good job of it-and that's why I think they should just do it on a case by case basis. Someone calls up, the rep remaps it temporarily right then on the phone for them, and investigates it with Tribune or whatever.


That isn't possible. TiVo doesn't manipulate channel data mappings from Tribune. I wouldn't even want them to have this ability. Most of the "reps" at Tivo have no clue what a frequency is. You really want them controlling mapping on individual basis? Leave it to Tribune who is suppose to at least be the "experts".


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

One thing we shouldnt forget is that this is a once in a lifetime event.... Add to that the fact that a huge monkey wrench was thrown into the works at the last minute by Washington. Tribune didnt have a lot of time to sort out who was going to stay on, who was going to nightlite, who was going to flash cut and who was gonna do nothing. Additionally, this all came at a time when cable systems across the country were adding HD content left and right. Tribune had a massive task on their hands.... I believe that if the DTV Transition was allowed to continue as planned... we wouldnt have had these problems.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

rainwater said:


> I would love to know who Tribune confirmed with and made changes for stations that are never changing frequencies. They certainly didn't talk to the stations themselves to get the wrong information. It appears Tribune really screwed up this process by not planning for this situation at all. Sure, they shouldn't take a consumer's word for it. But there are plenty of places to confirm this situation but I highly doubt they are using any of it based on the screw ups we have seen so far.


The update fixed one channel that was not working and broke one that was working. I hope tivo gets the frequency set right soon.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

rainwater said:


> That isn't possible. TiVo doesn't manipulate channel data mappings from Tribune. I wouldn't even want them to have this ability. Most of the "reps" at Tivo have no clue what a frequency is. You really want them controlling mapping on individual basis? Leave it to Tribune who is suppose to at least be the "experts".


It IS possible. They COULD do it if they wanted to. And I 100% think they HAVE to do it ON THE PHONE, within minutes of calling and ascertaining the issue. It's not acceptable how they have you do it now, and they WILL and SHOULD lose customers over it.

If they have to leave it for second level people with access to channel mapping, fine-the first level person immediately transfers it up.

It's absolutely absurd to expect someone to wait a week for channels to start working...maybe, if a second company decides there's an issue, etc., etc. That's passing the buck, even if Tribune is in the wrong.


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

rainwater said:


> I would love to know who Tribune confirmed with and made changes for stations that are never changing frequencies. They certainly didn't talk to the stations themselves to get the wrong information.


We can only speculate here... I'd guess three possible problems:

1) They did talk to the station, but didn't talk to engineering who would have the definitive answer. Maybe they talked the scheduling department (their usual contacts for guide data issues) or the receptionist.
2) Since many stations are owned my mass media conglomerates, they talked to a corporate contact, who also didn't know what was going on at the station level. 
3) Just plain old human error. Someone typo'd something while entering it into their database.

And, even though I seem to be defending this whole mess, I do agree it could have gone a lot smoother. I'm just more willing to forgive them for this temporary blip. In the 9 years I've been a tivo customer, all of the lineup issues that I've been concerned with have eventually been resolved.

And, Puppy76, that's why I'd personally keep the box. I have trust that the current issues are a temporary blip, and there are bound to be some more issues over the next few months while the transition plays out. If you're not willing to live with the pain while things sort out, or the small risk that things won't sort out, get out while you can.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Puppy76 said:


> It IS possible. They COULD do it if they wanted to.


No it isn't possible. I would like to know why you think this is possible. I have never heard of TiVo having this ability. Perhaps you have some inside knowledge of TiVo that others don't?


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

rainwater said:


> No it isn't possible. I would like to know why you think this is possible. I have never heard of TiVo having this ability. Perhaps you have some inside knowledge of TiVo that others don't?


Of course it's possible. How could it possible NOT be possible? It's a computer, it's networked, it's running their own software-they can have it do whatever they want it to do.


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## JimPa (Oct 25, 2006)

It worked before so maybe it'll work again.
Channels without program guide information due to transmission frequencies being changed. Guide information is present for the channels that no longer tune the channel.
20-1 WCOVdt frequency 20
32-1 WNCVdt frequency 51
8-1 WAKAdt frequency 55


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Puppy76 said:


> Of course it's possible. How could it possible NOT be possible? It's a computer, it's networked, it's running their own software-they can have it do whatever they want it to do.


Huh? That isn't how it works at all. Tribune provides the guide data and TiVo has a system in place to provide the guide data to users. TiVos can not remap frequencies in the guide data. What you are asking would require changes on TiVos servers, not user's boxes. They do not have the current capability to make these changes and they certainly aren't going to spend the resources to develop this capability for a event that is going to only happen twice. Not only that, even if Tivo could change frequencies on a per user basis, they would never do this in a million years. It would be a support nightmare and would cost them a lot of money to maintain.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

rainwater said:


> Huh? That isn't how it works at all. Tribune provides the guide data and TiVo has a system in place to provide the guide data to users. TiVos can not remap frequencies in the guide data. What you are asking would require changes on TiVos servers, not user's boxes.


Actually it could be done either way, but regardless it's certainly withing Tivo's power to do it.



> They do not have the current capability to make these changes and they certainly aren't going to spend the resources to develop this capability for a event that is going to only happen twice. Not only that, even if Tivo could change frequencies on a per user basis, they would never do this in a million years. It would be a support nightmare and would cost them a lot of money to maintain.


So instead they're just going to lose customers? Sure it would cost something to prep, but it shouldn't be much to maintain, and I doubt setting it up would cost all THAT much. They should already have some of the software they need in place, but even if they don't it shouldn't be that complicated to do.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Puppy76 said:


> So instead they're just going to lose customers? Sure it would cost something to prep, but it shouldn't be much to maintain, and I doubt setting it up would cost all THAT much. They should already have some of the software they need in place, but even if they don't it shouldn't be that complicated to do.


TiVo isn't going to implement the same service the Tribune provides. Otherwise, they wouldn't be paying Tribune for the service. Btw, adding custom frequency per user would be extremely complicated to implement. It isn't a matter of pushing a few buttons. Plus, it would be difficult to maintain since instead of a fixed number of lineups, TiVo would have to deal with thousands of custom lineups.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

rainwater said:


> TiVo isn't going to implement the same service the Tribune provides. Otherwise, they wouldn't be paying Tribune for the service. Btw, adding custom frequency per user would be extremely complicated to implement. It isn't a matter of pushing a few buttons. Plus, it would be difficult to maintain since instead of a fixed number of lineups, TiVo would have to deal with thousands of custom lineups.


They're not duplicating the same service, they're fixing the service tribune provides. And if it isn't already set up to support this, the software would take a (short) while to implement, but then it would be easy to handle these situations as they come up.

And Tivo could easily handle a custom line up for every single customer if they needed to. This isn't a very hard thing to do.

Their alternative is allow us to map these things ourselves. They claim that's "complicated" for customers apparently. As opposed to calling and dealing with this situation as it exists? Hardly.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Okay, now I'm just mad. I just got this email:



> Thank you for contacting TiVos Channel Lineup Department. We are currently listing the local HD channels in their correct channel positions. You should be receiving your local HD channels in the 100s if you subscribe through <Comcast - Pekin, IL>. The QAM channels you are referring to are not officially supported by either <cabComcast - Pekin, IL> or TiVo as they have yet to be standardized by the FCC. For more information, please visit our support site at www.tivo.com/support, and search for the term QAM.
> 
> If you have any questions, comments or concerns, please contact TiVo Customer Support at 877-367-8486 and refer to your case number. We are open from 6:00 AM to 9:00 PM Pacific Time everyday.
> 
> Thank you for your patience and understanding. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. Thanks for choosing TiVo!


And responded with the following. I can't believe people are actually trying to defend this. This is TIVO'S problem. I am not buying service from Tribune, I'm buying a DVR from Tivo-Tivo has to fix it one way or the other. And YES, they CAN fix it.

Response message:
This is ATSC over the air, NOT QAM, NOT Comcast, which the support person I spoke with a few days ago seemed to understand. I never mentioned and am not trying to use QAM. The channels are absolutely not correct. I can see exactly what Tivo thinks they are, and where they actually are.

25.1 is actually on 57. The guide data thinks it's on 25.
47.1, 47.2, and 47.3 are all on 46, the guide data thinks they're on 47.

Also locally we're having at least two more frequency changes before the end of June...so apparently this will all happen again even if it ever gets fixed.

Not sure if anyone actually sees replys to these emails, so I'll try calling, but I never got a case number, I'm trying to test out a Tivo HD XL which only has 4 days of service left, and I still can't access 4 of my channels...


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Puppy76 said:


> And Tivo could easily handle a custom line up for every single customer if they needed to. This isn't a very hard thing to do.


Again, this just shows a lack of understanding. What are you gonna do when Tribune updates a lineup? Would you like to sift through thousands of custom lineups and figure out what should and shouldn't be merged into custom lineups? This could take months or years depending on how many custom lineups there are.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

rainwater said:


> Again, this just shows a lack of understanding. What are you gonna do when Tribune updates a lineup? Would you like to sift through thousands of custom lineups and figure out what should and shouldn't be merged into custom lineups? This could take months or years depending on how many custom lineups there are.


It most certainly does not show a "lack of understanding". I don't wan to be a jerk here, but you keep pushing the point, and I don't think YOU understand what can (EASILY) be done with databases.

There are obviously multiple ways to handle it-from continuing to use the custom line up, to reverting to the default lineup if anything changes, to reverting only if a custom channel changes. And I'm sure there are plenty more ways to deal with it, all without involving a human being.

None of this is ideal, but the least ideal way to handle it is to ignore it. They're probably losing hundreds just from me alone, not to mention I'm not going to be recommending them anymore after they screw something up that's so basic, and so core to what it is they do.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Puppy76 said:


> It most certainly does not show a "lack of understanding". I don't wan to be a jerk here, but you keep pushing the point, and I don't think YOU understand what can (EASILY) be done with databases.
> 
> There are obviously multiple ways to handle it-from continuing to use the custom line up, to reverting to the default lineup if anything changes, to reverting only if a custom channel changes. And I'm sure there are plenty more ways to deal with it, all without involving a human being.
> 
> None of this is ideal, but the least ideal way to handle it is to ignore it. They're probably losing hundreds just from me alone, not to mention I'm not going to be recommending them anymore after they screw something up that's so basic, and so core to what it is they do.


Oh, so you want TiVo to update its guide data backend system, the CSR system, and TiVo software in the next day or two so you can get your guide data fixed? I still fail to see how anything you said is a possible solution to this thread. It would be helpful to stay on topic and provide answers/solutions to things that are possible right now. Lot's of people are having issues. Talking about solutions that aren't possible right now is not very helpful. Maybe you can make another thread with your idea in the feature requests area.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

rainwater said:


> Oh, so you want TiVo to update its guide data backend system, the CSR system, and TiVo software in the next day or two so you can get your guide data fixed? I still fail to see how anything you said is a possible solution to this thread. It would be helpful to stay on topic and provide answers/solutions to things that are possible right now. Lot's of people are having issues. Talking about solutions that aren't possible right now is not very helpful. Maybe you can make another thread with your idea in the feature requests area.


+1


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

This is posted on tivo's support website if you hover over Digital Antenna Frequency Updates:


> On 2/17/09 many antenna stations switched over from analog to digital broadcasting. Some stations did not update their frequency information properly, preventing DVRs from tuning to the few affected channels. An update for the majority of these channels will download to your DVR automatically on the evening of 2/26/09. If your DVR continues to have trouble tuning to a digital antenna station on 2/27/09 or later, please make a connection to the TiVo Service and then restart your DVR. If the problem persists, please call TiVo Customer Support for further assistance.


I went ahead and called based on that and after the CSR spoke with someone else they said because of the volume of changes they are now asking people to wait 10 to 15 days. Thats total, he said to call back next week if its still wrong. He also said he ran a refresh on the ticket submitted to Tribune because his computer showed that Tribune hadn't acted on it.


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

Puppy76 said:


> None of this is ideal, but the least ideal way to handle it is to ignore it. They're probably losing hundreds just from me alone, not to mention I'm not going to be recommending them anymore after they screw something up that's so basic, and so core to what it is they do.


A) How do you know they're ignoring it? It's not happening as fast as you'd like, but there's no evidence to support this point. In fact, people have been reporting that frequencies are getting updated.

B) Yup - Tivo could be losing customers/money because of this. That's a cross they'll have to bear. However, as in all things business, the question is how much would it cost to develop/support things in a way that will keep you as a customer, vs how much money will they lose from not doing it the way you want.

You definitely have a valid complaint - your tivo isn't working the way you want. But, like it or not, the lineup update process is part of the service you're buying. As you point out, it doesn't matter if tivo is doing it in house, or outsourcing it, their process is their process. It's up to tivo to decide how they want to design/support their product, and it's up to you as the customer to say whether the product meets your needs.


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## Ronio (May 12, 2008)

Puppy76 said:


> Are you in the Peoria area too? Those are the same channels and same frequency even! (If you are, that's THREE of us just in this thread!)


Yes, Peoria Rocks.

Thanks to Puppy76, kb7oeb, bkdtvfor taking the time to answer my newbie question.

I just got done explaining to the wife why she has no Dr. Phil's anymore (I'm actually smiling that they aren't recording) I'm hoping to get it setup to start grabbing my Dr. Who & This Old House on PBS again.

Ron


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

rainwater said:


> Oh, so you want TiVo to update its guide data backend system, the CSR system, and TiVo software in the next day or two so you can get your guide data fixed? I still fail to see how anything you said is a possible solution to this thread.


Then you're not trying very hard.

Obviously they need to do exactly what I've already said they need to do, not "update its guide data backend system, the CSR system and Tivo software in the next day or two..."



> It would be helpful to stay on topic and provide answers/solutions to things that are possible right now.


That's what most us on here have been doing. But not you. No, you have to insult people and defend something even Tivo isn't publicly defending. YOU have been posting nonsense, and insulting me, for days now. THAT is "off topic".



Roderigo said:


> A) How do you know they're ignoring it? It's not happening as fast as you'd like, but there's no evidence to support this point. In fact, people have been reporting that frequencies are getting updated.


What I mean is Tivo doesn't fix it, they just pass the buck. It's one step away from "why don't you just call up Tribune and ask them to change it.

This is something that needs to be fixed WHEN a customer calls, while they're on the phone. That's entirely feasable, and this is an issue that's existed for years-and in regards to this transition Tivo has had years to prepare for-and they didn't.

And in my case, the DID just ignore me. Plenty of others on here have had the same type of thing happen. The BEST case scenario people are having to call and wait a week for a fix, which shouldn't be happening at all.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

I had a TiVo reboot Thurs AM and Friday AM. But, no fix.

Came home from work on Friday... no reboot but all fixed now 

5 business days, as promised, from when I called. 7 days since the problem started.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Yikes. I'm on the phone right now, and having to explain what over the air NTSC is versus QAM. He's telling me "QAM is not supported by Tivo or Comcast". And it's like this...is...not...Comcast.

The good news is since the morning, three of the channel frequencies have been corrected, which just leaves 25-1.

Peoria market people, looks like everything but NBC should be working now! At least until March...


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## Toeside (Feb 14, 2002)

On Wednesday 2/25 KTVI-DT in St Louis, which is a Fox O&O station, lost guide data on both of our TiVos. We now have two 2-1 channels--one at UHF 41 and one at UHF 43. Channel 43 is correct, but has no guide data. Channel 41 has no signal but has guide data.

I called TiVo today and they said it will be fixed in 5-7 days. Out of curiousity, based on another post here I signed up for a trial at http://schedulesdirect.org. I used MacProgramGuide.app to download guide data and looked at schedule.xml (located in the user\library\MacProgramGuide directory). It's showing KTVI-DT on channel 43.

So that seems to me that Tribune has fixed the problem on their end, and now we just need to wait for TiVo to get an update.

Sound right?


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## markens (Apr 12, 2007)

Puppy76 said:


> Yikes. I'm on the phone right now, and having to explain what over the air NTSC is versus QAM.


To be precise, you probably mean _ATSC_ (rather than _NTSC_) when talking about OTA digital.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

Well, I now know of various ways that Tribune Media Services (Zap2It) are getting lineup correction requests and it is known that they are making progress, although I've also seen multiple instances where they corrected some problems and yet caused other problems that didn't exist before. Hopefully, they will make much more progress again this coming week.

Whatever TMS did or didn't think of or plan for when 2/17 came upon them, I have no knowledge of so I can't speak to that, but I will cast a hunch that they understand now that the remaining channels terminating analog by June will require more research on their part to make sure they know if it will involve a frequency change or not. 

The system is the way the system is, so the most important thing is that Tribune keeps getting reports of problems so that they can get it fixed. It sounds like TiVo support better understands this issue now, than they did back on 2/18, as well.

If anyone is still stuck with faulty guide data, post the call-sign(s) here and what frequency you know they should be changed to. I should be able to verify when the data is fixed by way of the SchedulesDirect XML data feed.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

Toeside said:


> I called TiVo today and they said it will be fixed in 5-7 days. Out of curiousity, based on another post here I signed up for a trial at http://schedulesdirect.org. I used MacProgramGuide.app to download guide data and looked at schedule.xml (located in the user\library\MacProgramGuide directory). It's showing KTVI-DT on channel 43.
> 
> So that seems to me that Tribune has fixed the problem on their end, and now we just need to wait for TiVo to get an update.
> 
> Sound right?


Interesting. I just downloaded today's guide data for KTVI-DT and confirmed what you see, that they do have the "fccChannelNumber" properly listed as 43. Have you forced a manual connection to TiVo within the past few hours?

When I got my one channel fixed, I had done a manual connection in the morning and it wasn't fixed, but then around 10pm I did it again that night (a week ago now) and then the proper guide data was downloaded.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Toeside said:


> So that seems to me that Tribune has fixed the problem on their end, and now we just need to wait for TiVo to get an update.
> 
> Sound right?


If Tribune has that information, you should see it on your TiVo in less than 24 hours.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Okay, they've resubmitted the issue to Tribune, and supposedly it'll be another 5 business days (that's probably why the other guy told me 7 days)...assuming they don't once again decide that this is a cable issue.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

cogx said:


> If anyone is still stuck with faulty guide data, post the call-sign(s) here and what frequency you know they should be changed to. I should be able to verify when the data is fixed by way of the SchedulesDirect XML data feed.


Whoops, I didn't see this.

25-1 WEEK. Should be frequency 57, guide data thinks it's 25 (which maybe it will be...next month).


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

I have the same problem but they got 24.1 working but not 24.2



Toeside said:


> On Wednesday 2/25 KTVI-DT in St Louis, which is a Fox O&O station, lost guide data on both of our TiVos. We now have two 2-1 channels--one at UHF 41 and one at UHF 43. Channel 43 is correct, but has no guide data. Channel 41 has no signal but has guide data.
> 
> I called TiVo today and they said it will be fixed in 5-7 days. Out of curiousity, based on another post here I signed up for a trial at http://schedulesdirect.org. I used MacProgramGuide.app to download guide data and looked at schedule.xml (located in the user\library\MacProgramGuide directory). It's showing KTVI-DT on channel 43.
> 
> ...


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

Puppy76 said:


> What I mean is Tivo doesn't fix it, they just pass the buck. It's one step away from "why don't you just call up Tribune and ask them to change it.


Whereas my view is the tivo customer support department is passing things off to the tivo lineup department. It just so happens both of those are departments are staffed by contractors, but that's really irrelevant, as you've pointed out - you're buying service from tivo, not from their contractors.



Puppy76 said:


> This is something that needs to be fixed WHEN a customer calls, while they're on the phone.


Again, I disagree with this. *You* would like it to be fixed while *you're* on the phone. Unfortunately, that's not the service you're paying for, because tivo doesn't offer that service. If you don't like the service they're offering, you're free to complain as you're doing, and you're free to take your business elsewhere.


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

I emailed one of the stations I am missing and asked if they had updated their information with the Media Stats company TivoJerry mentioned in another thread and the engineer that replied said he had not heard of that company. Is there any contact information I could forward to him?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

cwoody222 said:


> I had a TiVo reboot Thurs AM and Friday AM. But, no fix.
> 
> Came home from work on Friday... no reboot but all fixed now


Frequency changes in the guide data never require a reboot. Software updates had nothing to do with these OTA changes.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

Puppy76 said:


> 25-1 WEEK. Should be frequency 57, guide data thinks it's 25 (which maybe it will be...next month).


Interesting. WEEK-DT is doing something kind of bizarre, although maybe more stations are doing this as well. Unlike in my area, where one station did the frequency move on 2/17 and the other will wait until the 6/12 deadline, while WEEK _*originally*_ was telling people they were switching from channel 57 down to 25 _*on February 18*_, now at the top of their home page they say they are doing it March 3.

As for Tribune, today's guide data shows they have a mixed bag:
WEEKDT 25-1 id=34803 at frequency 25
WEEKDT2 25-2 id=48564 at frequency 57

So, the good news is that you're only a couple days away from your primary WEEKDT channel from getting guide data to match up and then they just need to change the frequency for WEEKDT2 to 25 on Monday as well.


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## JFKLS1 (Feb 25, 2009)

Well after the Friday night update here is how my guide looks now.

3.1 WCIA CBS no data
17.1 WAND NBC good
19.1 WHOI ABC no data
20.1 WICS ABC no data
23.1 WBUI WB good
25.1 WEEK NBC no data
31.1 WMBD CBS no data
43.1 WYZZ FOX good 
55.1 WRSP FOX good

Well I guess that is better than the zero data I was getting.....
Should I call tivo support back? The examples I gave the tech are the ones that were fixed. The rest obviously were not.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

JimPa said:


> Guide information is present for the channels that no longer tune the channel.
> 20-1 WCOVdt frequency 20
> 32-1 WNCFdt frequency 51
> 8-1 WAKAdt frequency 55


In terms of todays Tribune guide data:
WCOVDT and WCOVDT2 listed at freq 16.
WNCFDT listed at freq 32. 
WAKADT, WAKADT2, and WAKADT3 listed at freq 42.

As others were stating here, just doing web searches can find a lot of conflicting info.

In this case, if you are JimP on the AVS forum site, then I assume you know what is going on with your stations in terms of their original plans, actual reality, future plans, etc., since each local HDTV thread on AVS forum is going to know more about the reality in that area than any one web page listing or probably even the FCC database still at this point.


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## markens (Apr 12, 2007)

Here's a slightly different question, a technical one related to how TiVo handles OTA DTV virtual channels via the lineup. The answer to this will affect how I proceed trying to get a lineup addition pushed through.

In my market (Medford, OR) there are numerous low power translators because of terrain. For analog, they are/were on completely different channels and therefore the TiVo lineup handles them fine. There are many examples of this in my present lineup.

The question comes up with respect to DTV translators, since they can share the same virtual channel numbers as the main transmitter, even though the underlying RF channel is different.

The example in Medford: KTVL's digital signal includes 10.1 (CBS) and 10.2 (CW). Their main DTV signal is on channel 35, and this mapping is in the lineup. Select 10.1, TiVo tunes to channel 35 looking for the digital stream. It works fine, except I can't receive that signal! [Yes, they will switch 35 to 10 in June, but that doesn't affect the underlying situation.]

I _can_ receive their DTV translator on channel 47. Same virtual subchannels (10.1, 10.2). Channel scan finds it, and I can select it fine as a manual channel.

So (finally) the question for the technical experts: Both 10.1->35 and 10.1->47 are valid mappings in my market. Can the TiVo S3 antenna lineup handle handle this situation if the data was there (tune to either 35 or 47 when I select 10.1)? I would hope that choosing only one of them as "I receive" in the channel list could work. But I don't know. Anybody have insight? (If this is known not to work, then I would proceed with a bug report to TiVo rather than a lineup change to Tribune.) Thanks!


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

JFKLS1 said:


> Well after the Friday night update here is how my guide looks now.
> 
> 3.1 WCIA CBS no data
> 17.1 WAND NBC good
> ...


Here's what the Tribune (Zap2It) guide data shows for the channels in your area, 2/28 afternoon:

callSign,freq,stationID
KLJBDT,49,33825
KLJBDT2,49,42919
KWQCDT,56,43064
KWQCDT2,56,43066
WANDDT,18,30925
WANDDT2,18,45706
WAOEDT,39,35051
WBUIDT,22,34716
WBUIDT2,22,60598
WCCUDT,26,49044
WCIADT,48,30911
WCIADT2,48,55826
WEEKDT,25,34803
WEEKDT2,57,48564
WEIUDT,50,51891
WEIUDT2,50,57720
WHOIDT,40,43288
WHOIDT2,40,52639
WICDDT,15,34777
WICDDT2,15,51608
WICSDT,20,35228
WILLDT,9,48305
WILLDT2,9,48306
WILLDT3,9,54141
WMBDDT,30,42547
WQADDT,38,30319
WQADDT2,38,37248
WQADDT3,38,53049
WRSPDT,44,42575
WTVPDT,46,28680
WTVPDT2,46,46332
WTVPDT3,46,49412
WWTODT,10,32504
WYZZDT,28,34846
WYZZDT2,28,54361


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## asublette (Feb 3, 2008)

I've had several cases where the broadcasters have changed from one digital channel to another and the guide doesn't follow. I have to call TiVo and get their help to fix it. On the last call they fixed the two channels I called about and somehow muffed a third channel. Now I have to call back and try to get that one fixed. Hopefully the changes will settle down and all will straighten out.. I think waving some charges may be in line here.


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## JFKLS1 (Feb 25, 2009)

Well Zap2it seems to have it all correct. Now if I could just get that data imported to my tivos. Something tells me it is going to be a while before this mess is straightened out....


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## JimPa (Oct 25, 2006)

That's me on AVS.

What's strange is that they had corrected these changes in frequency assignments and had it properly displaying in the program guide earlier this week. Then it looks like they changed them back. Something like using an out of date backup file.

I got through to Tivo yesterday and gave these corrections. Hope I didn't mess things up.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

cogx said:


> Here's what the Tribune (Zap2It) guide data shows for the channels in your area, 2/28 afternoon:
> 
> callSign,freq,stationID
> 
> ...


Hmmm... I cant make it work.... I just get listings...


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

markens said:


> Here's a slightly different question, a technical one related to how TiVo handles OTA DTV virtual channels via the lineup. The answer to this will affect how I proceed trying to get a lineup addition pushed through.
> 
> In my market (Medford, OR) there are numerous low power translators because of terrain. For analog, they are/were on completely different channels and therefore the TiVo lineup handles them fine. There are many examples of this in my present lineup.
> 
> ...


The translator should have a different call sign than the main station, I've not had luck getting a -CA station in my area added correctly. They added the -DT listing with the correct digital channel for -DT station but not the -CA station I receive on another digital channel and both have the same virtual channel.


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## markens (Apr 12, 2007)

kb7oeb said:


> The translator should have a different call sign than the main station, I've not had luck getting a -CA station in my area added correctly. They added the -DT listing with the correct digital channel for -DT station but not the -CA station I receive on another digital channel and both have the same virtual channel.


Sounds like you're having a similar problem. The call sign for the one I'm trying to add is K47LD-D, and my request included that info. But that still doesn't answer the question about whether TiVo can use it correctly once added. Could be "no" since it seems to be impossible to get them added to the lineup. But no authoritative answer so far.


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## Toeside (Feb 14, 2002)

KTVI-DT in St Louis is fixed now. I forced a connection a few minutes ago and it downloaded new data and all is well.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

SCSIRAID said:


> Hmmm... I cant make it work.... I just get listings...


Yep, this site munged the URL when I pasted it in earlier. Copy the URL string below and then add the appropriate channel ID number to the end:
tvlistings.zap2it.com/tvlistings/ZCSGrid.do?stnNum=

Anyway, it's not a big deal or anything, I'm not sure why I even added that note to my post.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

markens said:


> The question comes up with respect to DTV translators, since they can share the same virtual channel numbers as the main transmitter, even though the underlying RF channel is different.
> 
> So (finally) the question for the technical experts: Both 10.1->35 and 10.1->47 are valid mappings in my market. Can the TiVo S3 antenna lineup handle handle this situation if the data was there (tune to either 35 or 47 when I select 10.1)? I would hope that choosing only one of them as "I receive" in the channel list could work. But I don't know. Anybody have insight? (If this is known not to work, then I would proceed with a bug report to TiVo rather than a lineup change to Tribune.) Thanks!


Interesting. Well, Tribute guide data channel lineups are configured by zip code, which is how we configure our TiVo lineups as well. When I look up guide data for zip code 97501 or 97535, only KTVLDT shows up for (virtual) channel 10:
KTVLDT,35,34541
KTVLDT2,35,52419
KTVLDT3,35,60613

The K03HX-D, K13JR-D, K19GL-D, K19HS-D, K22IQ-D, K44JB-D, or K47LD-D call-signs do not show up at all.

I don't know what Tribune's policy is for those translator stations. In terms of how it could work, in their guide data are the lineup tags that specify each unique station ID with their corresponding virtual channel numbers. In the case of KTVLDT:
stationID,channel,channelMinor
34541,10,1
52419,10,2
60613,10,3

Assuming they did add those translator stations, would they then map them to the same virtual channels, so K47LD-D would also map to channel 10? If they did, our TiVos should be able to handle it just fine, as far as I know.


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## markens (Apr 12, 2007)

cogx said:


> Interesting. Well, Tribute guide data channel lineups are configured by zip code, which is how we configure our TiVo lineups as well. When I look up guide data for zip code 97501 or 97535, only KTVLDT shows up for (virtual) channel 10:
> KTVLDT,35,34541
> KTVLDT2,35,52419
> KTVLDT3,35,60613


Thanks. Yes, this would be the main full-power transmitter for virtual 10.1, 10.2, and 10.3 on channel 35.



> The K03HX-D, K13JR-D, K19GL-D, K19HS-D, K22IQ-D, K44JB-D, or K47LD-D call-signs do not show up at all.


K47LD-D is the one I care about. If it matters, my zip is 97520 to check this out. (The station manager told me a month or so ago that he would submit it to their listing service, which feeds Tribune.)



> I don't know what Tribune's policy is for those translator stations.


A big question! Any suggestions how I can find this out?



> In terms of how it could work, in their guide data are the lineup tags that specify each unique station ID with their corresponding virtual channel numbers. In the case of KTVLDT:
> stationID,channel,channelMinor
> 34541,10,1
> 52419,10,2
> 60613,10,3


Aha! So, to see if I understand correctly, this is how virtual 10.1 gets mapped to RF channel 35: "34541,10,1" maps virtual 10.1 to stationID 34541, and the "KTVLDT,35,34541" entry above then maps that stationID to RF channel 35 (which the TiVo tunes to when 10.1 is requested) and program listings for call sign KTVLDT. Is this all correct?



> Assuming they did add those translator stations, would they then map them to the same virtual channels, so K47LD-D would also map to channel 10? If they did, our TiVos should be able to handle it just fine, as far as I know.


And that's the fundamental question I asked earlier. Assuming it's mapped as you suggest (which sounds reasonable), it might look something like this:
K47LDD,47,11111
K47LDD2,47,22222
K47LDD3,47,33333
and
11111,10,1
22222,10,2
33333,10,3
which gives another mapping for 10.1 etc. And the key to differentiating between them are the unique call signs which the TiVo certainly understands based on existing behavior.

So it looks worth pursuing getting the LD added.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

Toeside said:


> KTVI-DT in St Louis is fixed now. I forced a connection a few minutes ago and it downloaded new data and all is well.


thanks i will force a connection when im done watching star trek on 30.1


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

Tivo still has listings for K55EH a local translator no longer on the air.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

markens said:


> Aha! So, to see if I understand correctly, this is how virtual 10.1 gets mapped to RF channel 35: "34541,10,1" maps virtual 10.1 to stationID 34541, and the "KTVLDT,35,34541" entry above then maps that stationID to RF channel 35 (which the TiVo tunes to when 10.1 is requested) and program listings for call sign KTVLDT. Is this all correct?
> 
> And that's the fundamental question I asked earlier. Assuming it's mapped as you suggest (which sounds reasonable), it might look something like this:
> K47LDD,47,11111
> ...


Yep, so it sounds like you need to followup with TiVo support about the translator stations in your area. Not sure why they haven't added those into your "PC:97520" guide data lineup before now.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

JFKLS1 said:


> Well after the Friday night update here is how my guide looks now.
> 
> 3.1 WCIA CBS no data
> 17.1 WAND NBC good
> ...


That's weird, because I *do* get 31.1, 19.1 okay, just not 25.1...which apparently is changing in a few days anyway (?)



Roderigo said:


> Again, I disagree with this. *You* would like it to be fixed while *you're* on the phone. Unfortunately, that's not the service you're paying for, because tivo doesn't offer that service.


This is just common sense. You don't pass the buck, you don't expect your customers to wait a week for their service to (maybe) get fixed. If the customer has to call at all, you've already failed. You're already at risk-you HAVE to fix the issue as soon as possible, which in this case should be while the customer is on the phone, since that's easily withing Tivo's capabilities.

Yes I'm aware some this may take some programing to get it working (a one time issues)-IF they were so shortsighted that they didn't write it that way to begin with. This is a capability that should have been around since the launch of Series 1.


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

SCSIRAID said:


> One thing we shouldnt forget is that this is a once in a lifetime event....


No it's not. This exact crap has popped up dozens of times over the last decade. This is not the first time, nor the last, that Tribune has screwed up channel mappings.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

cramer said:


> No it's not. This exact crap has popped up dozens of times over the last decade. This is not the first time, nor the last, that Tribune has screwed up channel mappings.


Well... this is the first time in my 6 year experience with TiVo that I have ever seen a channel mapping issue. Ive certainly seen guide data issues with new channels being added though.. But I maintain that the magnitude of this issue is certainly 'once in a lifetime'.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

cramer said:


> No it's not. This exact crap has popped up dozens of times over the last decade. This is not the first time, nor the last, that Tribune has screwed up channel mappings.


Yes, but it's the first time everyone's channels mappings have all gone sour simultaneously. In the past, it was a market or two at a time.

People should yell at Tivo, and Tivo will yell at their subcontractor, Tribune. But Tivo won't set up a brand new group to correct Tribune's guide data. That's what they pay Tribune for! And yes, Tivo would rather lose customers then spend lots of money to fix a major short-term problem since that is cheaper for them.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

The capability to correct this on the fly should have been present since the 90's though.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

Puppy76 said:


> This is just ridiculous. Tivo needs to fix it. If they're not going to let us manually tell it what guide data to use for a given channel, they need to be able to remap it while you're talking to them on the phone, so that within the hour it's working, even if they just override it on a customer by customer basis.
> 
> I mean...I don't know what to do here. I only have 4 days left before I need to activate, and I can't even access four stations yet, or even finish recreating my Season Pass list (while I was doing it, I'm like "Hey wait, where's Heroes?")
> 
> ...


You could have bailed and not dealt with any of this! But instead you've chosen to ***** and moan repeatedly about how TiVo should do things differently. 

Enjoy blowing off steam! TiVo does things its way and isn't going to change just because a few of us Forum posters get grumpy.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

As I check various threads on this site and the AVS boards, I do see that Tribune is making a lot of progress. My biggest complaint is that TiVo, or really Zap2It.com, doesn't have a good web-based lineup error report mechanism in place. Trying to explain the issue back on 2/18 to the friendly TiVo support person for 10 minutes was more of a hassle than it should ever have been. 
As for Zap2It, I never did receive an e-mail reply at all, when I just used their feedback address. Maybe that e-mail helped get my channel frequency changed or maybe it was TiVo support passing it along, or maybe they had known about it and were going to get it fixed without me doing anything. I'll never know, which is frustrating for curious minds.

If there was a web form on Zap2It's web site, so that you first typed in a callsign, to call up their station ID and associated information, such as the virtual channel number (major and minor) and frequency, then all the end-user has to do is to fill in the corresponding fields as to what they think is wrong. Instead, both TiVo and Zap2It (Tribune) are spending way more time trying to parse through verbal or written communication that frankly few people are going to be using the correct terms for. I'm quite sure that on the phone with TiVo support, I wasn't being as clear as I should have been. I kept using the word "frequency", which is what TiVo should understand, given that is the term their channel lineup screen displays. However, when looking at the Tribune guide data XML file, they actually refer to it as "fccChannelNumber". Had I know that two weeks ago, when I e-mailed Zap2it, I would have been much more precise in my error report. If they had a web-based error submission, though, they could get feedback in a concise format that is _far_ less time consuming for them to verify the accuracy of, without having to interpret each individuals proper or improper terminology. It's just a matter of making the best use of computers, which is all about taking labor intensive tasks and automating them as much as possible. Here we are in 2009 and anytime I see something that should be automated left to verbal and written communication, it hurts my soul a little bit.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

fallingwater said:


> You could have bailed and not dealt with any of this! But instead you've chosen to ***** and moan repeatedly about how TiVo should do things differently.
> 
> Enjoy blowing off steam! TiVo does things its way and isn't going to change just because a few of us Forum posters get grumpy.


On the other hand, so often on discussion boards like this one, there are always users who only post replies to be contrary. Sometimes they offer valid counterpoints, but in my opinion, all too often, the continued replies are argumentative solely for the enjoyment some people get out of arguing about things they honestly couldn't care less about. The best way to keep the bickering to continue for days is to continue to argue with someone, telling them they are essentially an idiot for wanting things they way they want it. It should be obvious that diminishing one's point of view is never going to be well received. Anyway, that's my sermon for the year, peace.


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## markens (Apr 12, 2007)

cogx said:


> My biggest complaint is that TiVo, or really Zap2It.com, doesn't have a good web-based lineup error report mechanism in place. Trying to explain the issue back on 2/18 to the friendly TiVo support person for 10 minutes was more of a hassle than it should ever have been. . . . Here we are in 2009 and anytime I see something that should be automated left to verbal and written communication, it hurts my soul a little bit.


Agreed 100%. This whole post was spot on.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

cogx said:


> ...so often on discussion boards like this one, there are always users who only post replies to be contrary. Sometimes they offer valid counterpoints, but in my opinion, all too often, the continued replies are argumentative solely for the enjoyment some people get out of arguing about things they honestly couldn't care less about. The best way to keep the bickering to continue for days is to continue to argue with someone, telling them they are essentially an idiot for wanting things they way they want it.


I had replied previously to puppy76 suggesting that for now it'd make sense to bail:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7102334#post7102334

Puppy76 doesn't suggest practical options or work-arounds so there's not much point when he objects to TiVo's lack of perfection. I'd rather chuckle at bicker's mastery of stating the obvious; a poster who COULD care less!
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6968688#post6968688


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

It's astounding how daring to point out "hey Tivo could easily and should be doing x" is met with 9 billion angry posts. Guess what, we would have mentioned it ONCE if not for people claiming it's "hard" or "not Tivo's problem" or the like.


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## Elmer Fudd (Aug 19, 2007)

dig_duggler said:


> Holy cats a Birmingham customer! I knew of PBS and WTTO, what was the other channel which I apparently didn't notice? Completely off topic, but are you using a cable provider? If so, which one?


Sorry, didn't check this thread for a few days.

Channel 68 WABM.

I do not use cable or satellite. Antenna only (OTA - Over The Air).


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

Elmer Fudd said:


> Sorry, didn't check this thread for a few days.
> 
> Channel 68 WABM.
> 
> I do not use cable or satellite. Antenna only (OTA - Over The Air).


FWIW, while 21.1 is still wrong WDBB is equivalent programming (17.1, 17.2) and has correct guide data if you get a strong signal with it.

I should go OTA only, but have the achilles heel many here have (ESPN).


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

dig_duggler said:


> FWIW, while 21.1 is still wrong WDBB is equivalent programming (17.1, 17.2) and has correct guide data if you get a strong signal with it.
> 
> I should go OTA only, but have the achilles heel many here have (ESPN).


WTTO is listed for frequency 28, is that not correct now?

Here's the current guide data channel lineup for zip code 35201:

callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber
WABMDT	34430	68	1	36
WABMDT2	50905	68	2	36
WBIQDT	35108	10	1	10
WBIQDT2	42746	10	2	10
WBIQDT3	54385	10	3	10
WBIQDT4	55700	10	4	10
WBRCDT	34623	6	1	50
WCFTDT	43994	33	1	5
WCFTDT2	43996	33	2	5
WCIQDT	35110	7	1	7
WCIQDT2	43775	7	2	7
WCIQDT3	55672	7	3	7
WCIQDT4	55698	7	4	7
WDBBDT	58342	17	1	18
WDBBDT2	58344	17	2	18
WIATDT	32647	42	1	30
WIATDT2	53327	42	2	30
WJSUDT	46019	40	1	9
WJSUDT2	58330	40	2	9
WPXHDT	34547	44	1	45
WPXHDT2	44070	44	2	45
WPXHDT3	44072	44	3	45
WPXHDT4	44074	44	4	45
WTJPDT	43623	60	1	26
WTJPDT2	58372	60	2	26
WTJPDT3	58376	60	3	26
WTJPDT4	58378	60	4	26
WTJPDT5	58380	60	5	26
WTTODT	35973	21	1	28
WTTODT2	58346	21	2	28
WVTMDT	43008	13	1	52
WVTMDT2	45754	13	2	52


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

cogx said:


> WTTO is listed for frequency 28, is that not correct now?
> 
> Here's the current guide data channel lineup for zip code 35201:
> 
> ...


I still havent been able to figure out how and where you pull this data from.... zip 27502


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

SCSIRAID said:


> I still havent been able to figure out how and where you pull this data from.... zip 27502


The short answer... I have _way_ too much time on my hands. 

Here's today's digital lineup for 27502:

callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber
WFMYDT	30473	2	1	51
WFMYDT2	46405	2	2	51
WFMYDT3	55531	2	3	51
WFMYDT4	55532	2	4	51
WGHPDT	32341	8	1	35
WLFLDT	21240	22	1	27
WLXIDT	34619	61	1	43
WMYVDT	30819	48	1	33
WMYVDT2	45796	48	2	48
WNCNDT	21239	17	1	55
WNCNDT2	42982	17	2	55
WNCNDT3	45742	17	3	55
WRALDT	19219	5	1	53
WRALDT2	21915	5	2	53
WRALDT3	22412	5	3	53
WRALDT4	22413	5	4	53
WRAYDT	34672	30	1	42
WRAZDT	24115	50	1	49
WRAZDT2	25510	50	2	49
WRAZDT3	47181	50	3	49
WRDCDT	32238	28	1	28
WRDCDT2	50916	28	2	28
WRPXDT	31038	47	1	15
WRPXDT2	54624	47	2	15
WRPXDT3	55318	47	3	15
WRPXDT4	57445	47	4	15
WTVDDT	21103	11	1	52
WTVDDT2	25511	11	2	52
WTVDDT3	30623	11	3	52
WTWBDT	34534	20	1	19
WUNCDT	30645	4	1	59
WUNCDT2	30646	4	2	59
WUNCDT3	30647	4	3	59
WUNCDT4	30648	4	4	59
WUNCDT5	30665	4	5	59
WUVCDT	49426	40	1	38
WUVCDT2	49428	40	2	38
WXLVDT	30820	45	1	29
WXLVDT2	45794	45	2	45


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

cogx said:


> WTTO is listed for frequency 28, is that not correct now?


Well I'll be darned, it was fixed since yesterday. I do find it weird that when these fixes come through the 'new' channel that was scanned without guide data disappears from the channels I receive list and I have to go in and check the 'old' now correct channel.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

cogx said:


> The short answer... I have _way_ too much time on my hands.
> 
> Here's today's digital lineup for 27502:


Thank you!!!!

Contains the same errors that TiVo indicates (as expected)

WLFLDT 21240 22 1 27

27 is their post transition channel... they are currently on 57

WRDCDT 32238 28 1 28
WRDCDT2 50916 28 2 28

28 is their post transition channel.. they are currently on 27

Ill use the zap2it feedback and let 'em know.


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## markens (Apr 12, 2007)

cogx, could you post the full current lineup for 97520 when you get a chance? Thanks much!


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

Puppy76 said:


> It's astounding how daring to point out "hey Tivo could easily and should be doing x" is met with 9 billion angry posts. Guess what, we would have mentioned it ONCE if not for people claiming it's "hard" or "not Tivo's problem" or the like.


Posting about the current digital conversion mess and how TiVo hasn't responded undoubtedly makes you feel good. But after posting the observation once (or even three times) your *****ing is non-productive and boring. Come up with a workaround not dependent on anything TiVo does or doesn't do, if you can.


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## mourning_air (Dec 1, 2005)

Same problem here: Denver KBDI (PBS affiliate) 12-1 changed from frequency 13 to frequency 38. No guide data for frequency 38. How do I figure out what frequency zap2it thinks it is?


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

mourning_air said:


> Same problem here: Denver KBDI (PBS affiliate) 12-1 changed from frequency 13 to frequency 38. No guide data for frequency 38. How do I figure out what frequency zap2it thinks it is?


Err, no they didn't. KBDI's analog frequency was 12, so I can guarantee they weren't on 13 for digital. I think something else is happening with KBDI's guide data...

Channel 13 is their permanent assignment, they'll be cutting from 38 to 13, but they haven't done that yet.

http://www.kbdi.org/digital9.cfm


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

markens said:


> cogx, could you post the full current lineup for 97520 when you get a chance? Thanks much!


callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber
KDKFDT	42766	31	1	29
KDRVDT	42765	12	1	38
KDRVDT2	60812	12	2	38
KFTSDT	42620	22	1	33
KFTSDT3	54834	22	3	33
KMVUDT	42940	26	1	26
KMVUDT2	54367	26	2	26
KOBIDT	35431	5	1	5
KOBIDT2	35433	5	2	5
KOTIDT	34812	2	1	13
KOTIDT2	35435	2	2	13
KSYSDT	42622	8	1	8
KSYSDT2	44445	8	2	8
KSYSDT3	54828	8	3	8
KTVLDT	34541	10	1	35
KTVLDT2	52419	10	2	35
KTVLDT3	60613	10	3	35


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

Adam1115 said:


> Err, no they didn't. KBDI's analog frequency was 12, so I can guarantee they weren't on 13 for digital. I think something else is happening with KBDI's guide data...
> 
> Channel 13 is their permanent assignment, they'll be cutting from 38 to 13, but they haven't done that yet.
> 
> http://www.kbdi.org/digital9.cfm


One resource I use when trying to figure out what frequency these DTV channels are really using and what they might be switching to in the future is:
http://rabbitears.info
They are often posting on the AVS boards, requesting updates to their database from the local folks in each area, including getting TSReader output from their ATSC tuner cards when possible.

As of this morning, here is what the guide data is showing for zip 80020.
So, Tribune jumped the gun on KBDIDT and changed the freq to 13 ahead of schedule, although they left the -2 and -3 subchannels at freq 38.

callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber
KBDIDT	35856	12	1	13
KBDIDT2	35818	12	2	38
KBDIDT3	35816	12	3	38
KCECDT	58597	50	1	51
KCNCDT	21297	4	1	35
KDENDT	54424	29	3	10
KDVRDT	21319	31	1	32
KFCTDT	34441	22	1	21
KMGHDT	20293	7	1	17
KOAADT	51690	5	1	42
KPXCDT	61376	59	1	43
KPXCDT2	61363	59	2	43
KPXCDT3	61367	59	3	43
KPXCDT4	61369	59	4	43
KQCKDT	43724	33	1	11
KQCKDT2	43987	33	2	11
KRMADT	21723	6	1	18
KRMADT2	55444	6	2	18
KRMADT3	62754	6	3	18
KRMTDT	21721	40	1	19
KTFDDT	43669	14	1	15
KTSCDT	43629	8	1	26
KTSCDT2	55630	8	2	26
KTSCDT3	62667	8	3	26
KTVDDT	37087	20	1	19
KUSADT	21298	9	1	16
KUSADT2	46171	9	2	16
KWGNDT	20370	2	1	34
KWGNDT2	43074	2	2	34
KWHDDT	35650	53	1	46


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

Puppy76 said:


> It's astounding how daring to point out "hey Tivo could easily and should be doing x" is met with 9 billion angry posts. Guess what, we would have mentioned it ONCE if not for people claiming it's "hard" or "not Tivo's problem" or the like.


Um.. I myself wasn't angry. I was realistic. Tivo pays Tribune to update guide data on the fly. Tivo is not in the guide data provider business, nor do they want to be. That is why they are paying Tribune to do the dirty work for them. And even if Tivo spun up an entire division just for guide data, what makes you think that they would do a better job than Tribune?

If Tribune isn't doing a good job, it's Tivo's responsibility to tell them where there are issues (which they frequently do) or find a new provider. It's Tivo's problem. Tribune is simply their subcontractor. The question you should be asking (and Tivo has probably asked) is, why Tribune didn't staff up for this digital transition? Maybe they thought they had a handle on it until the last-minute decision to partially delay the transition. Maybe they got caught flat-footed and are staffing up now, but no one will see results until the new temps are trained. Or maybe Tribune thinks that with a little delay, they can get a handle on it with their current staff.

Having said that, this digital transition is creating such a big mess that I don't think ANY guide data provider is getting everything right in all markets. Plus, even if there were a decision to switch to another guide data provider, it would take a few months to implement. By that time, the digital transition will be finished anyway, so why bother? I don't think this is the straw that breaks the camel's back -- if Tribune has been doing a good job until this point, you have to give them the benefit of the doubt and let them fix it.

So, all I can tell you is to call Tivo and tell them what's wrong. But be prepared to wait for a resolution, as there are many other people like you.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

BobCamp1 said:


> Um.. I myself wasn't angry. I was realistic. Tivo pays Tribune to update guide data on the fly. Tivo is not in the guide data provider business, nor do they want to be. That is why they are paying Tribune to do the dirty work for them...
> 
> If Tribune isn't doing a good job, it's Tivo's responsibility to tell them where there are issues (which they frequently do) or find a new provider. It's Tivo's problem... The question you should be asking (and Tivo has probably asked) is, why Tribune didn't staff up for this digital transition? Maybe... Maybe... Or maybe...
> 
> ...


A longtime TiVo user has a much more understandable gripe than a brand new purchaser who didn't return a TiVo within the 30 day window yet *****es from the get-go about TiVo's imperfections, knowing that right now there are significant problems caused by the current transition mess which affect TiVo.


----------



## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

fallingwater said:


> A longtime TiVo user has a much more understandable gripe than a brand new purchaser who didn't return a TiVo within the 30 day window yet *****es from the get-go about TiVo's imperfections, knowing that right now there are significant problems caused by the current transition mess which affect TiVo.


1) I'm not a new Tivo user
2) I had no idea Tivo would have trouble with something so basic
3) Why are you even posting in this thread, given you apparently have no issues?


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

BobCamp1 said:


> The question you should be asking (and Tivo has probably asked) is, why Tribune didn't staff up for this digital transition?
> 
> Having said that, this digital transition is creating such a big mess that I don't think ANY guide data provider is getting everything right in all markets.


Since 2/17/09 when this all started, I've come around to the conclusion that the ultimate bad guy in all of this is the FCC. With the amount of money our federal government spends (wastes), how is it they can't keep their database current (at least by say two business days) and 100% accurate? Why should Tribune or any other provider even have to rely on individuals e-mailing the Zap2It feedback address, or have customers call TiVo support and try to explain a problem and then hope that gets translated into an accurate report filed by TiVo to Tribune, or so on?

If our federal government wasn't so inept, Tribune should just be able to have a script that pulls *100% accurate* callsign, frequency, and channel number data directly *from the FCC database* into their own guide data database every evening and all of these changes should have been done by no later than say 2/20 (giving the FCC a couple of days to sort things out). Unfortunately, it seems that Tribune can't rely on the FCC database to be accurate enough to trust.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

Puppy76 said:


> 1) I'm not a new Tivo user
> 2) I had no idea Tivo would have trouble with something so basic
> 3) Why are you even posting in this thread, given you apparently have no issues?


(1) So you already had S2 TiVo's when you committed to the HD?

(2) Your posts in this thread don't provide a solution but rather just ***** about TiVo not doing what you want regarding something that will be resolved over time.

(3) Although I have no specific issues with TiVo regarding ATSC channel mapping the topic is related to QAM channel mapping and the overall digital transition which I AM concerned about. Most posters here have at least provided useful data.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

fallingwater said:


> (2) Your posts in this thread don't provide a solution but rather just ***** about TiVo not doing what you want regarding something that will be resolved over time.


Again, I would have had ONE POST, as would have others, had you not continued to complain about us daring to say anything about this. This isn't just me, clearly this capability could and should have been present since the S1's launch.

Again, I have no idea why it's so important for you to defend this, or why you just keep at it again and again. It is NOT a hard thing to have set up... TEN YEARS AGO.


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## JFKLS1 (Feb 25, 2009)

I just talked with TiVo support again and the girl was really helpful. She took all the frequency info for all the channels I still have no data for and told me they should all be fixed in about 5 days. Hopefully this is the case. I will post again after the next update.....


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

JFKLS1 said:


> I just talked with TiVo support again and the girl was really helpful. She took all the frequency info for all the channels I still have no data for and told me they should all be fixed in about 5 days. Hopefully this is the case. I will post again after the next update.....


I had called TCS for 3 channels and only 1 was fixed, however they were not important channels I regularly use. It wouldn't be a mess until June 12th. I believe 1 channel out of many will stay on the same frequency and everything else will be shuffled around.:down:


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

KPPX was fixed today, KAZT was changed from 25 to 7 but it needs to be 27.


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

SCSIRAID said:


> Well... this is the first time in my 6 year experience with TiVo that I have ever seen a channel mapping issue.


I guess you missed the fun of them changing 28 to 27 and then correcting it by REMOVING 28. Tivo just parroted Tribunes BS "the FCC changed their channel" -- even though they didn't and still had several YEARS before having to renew their broadcast license.



Puppy76 said:


> The capability to correct this on the fly should have been present since the 90's though.


Indeed. But lazy automation always wins.

And for the record, DISH has not been wrong (here) for even one second. 22 and 28 come it just like they always have. Tivo... wrong frequency for weeks, and is so confused it won't even show the channels in the guide (yes, they're checked.)


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

SCSIRAID said:


> WLFLDT 21240 22 1 27
> 
> 27 is their post transition channel... they are currently on 57
> 
> ...


Additionally, there hasn't been a 28-2 for over TWO. FREAKING. YEARS. The analog 22 and 28 no longer broadcast the regular schedule -- so stop listing the normal schedule there.

Plus, UNC (PBS / ch.4) switched to 12-14Mbps "HD" on their main sub back in SEPTEMBER, so they no longer have the broadcast capacity for -4 and -5 and therefore can not transmit them. UNC-HD (4-4) and UNC-ED(?) (4-5) is only available on cable. (Their un-updated web channel list still says "8-11pm".)


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

Dish doesn't provide mapping data for the OTA tuner, you have to channel scan and the receiver figures out what satellite channel listing to overlay onto the OTA guide (if any). 

I would prefer Tivo blank out all the provided digital frequencies and just have people run a channel scan. The inability of Tribune to provide 100&#37; accurate mapping data negates the advantage of not having to scan.


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## JimPa (Oct 25, 2006)

kb7oeb,

I was thinking along those same lines. Rather than using frequency assignments, associate based on psip information.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

kb7oeb said:


> KPPX was fixed today, KAZT was changed from 25 to 7 but it needs to be 27.


I worked up a template to send to Zap2It (Tribune) that perhaps will help them figure these things out easier, I don't know. I filled it out for your channel problem. Their e-mail address is [email protected] and they want a subject line of "Lineup Discrepancy".

lineup id='PC:85026' 
lineup name='Local Broadcast Listings' 
lineup location='Antenna' 
lineup type='LocalBroadcast' 
lineup postalCode='85026'

There is a mistake in your guide data for:

station id='32426'
callSign: KAZTDT
fccChannelNumber: 7
channel='7' channelMinor='1'

and

station id='61548'
callSign: KAZTDT2
fccChannelNumber: 7
channel='7' channelMinor='2'

----------

The station data above is incorrect. 
The value for fccChannelNumber should be 27.

KAZTDT and KAZTDT2 are tuned in on frequency 27.


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

Thank you , I appreciate it. I called in before I read your post and the CSR said Tribune had marked my ticket closed so he refilled it. I think it boils down to Tribune confusing KAZT-CA in Phoenix and KAZT-DT in Prescott. The -DT version is 25 now and 7 post tranistion, -CA in Phoenix is on 27. They broadcast the same content and both map to 7.x. Prescott is too far away from Phoenix for anyone in my zip code to pick up the -DT transmitter.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Doh. One of my channels changed again, so I called again. At least I have the procedure down pat


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## JimPa (Oct 25, 2006)

They fixed one of mine and didn't fix two others of the three I requested.

It'd be interesting to find out what Tribune's and Tivo's procedures are.


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## JFKLS1 (Feb 25, 2009)

I called yesterday and they fixed one of the six channels I gave them so far. Only 5 more to go.......


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

I don't really understand what Tribune is doing. Why are they only fixing one or two channels at a time for so many users? Do they think people are calling in and lying about the lineup changes?

Looks like most of the issues would be fixed right now if Tribune would make all changes requested by customers.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

bkdtv said:


> I don't really understand what Tribune is doing. Why are they only fixing one or two channels at a time for so many users? Do they think people are calling in and lying about the lineup changes?


That's almost how it's felt when I've talked to the Tivo people most of the time. It's like "no really, I'm staring at it right here on the Tivo, I'm not making this up" (I mean I didn't say that, but...)

This last guy I got though at least sounded like he believed me.

And then I don't understand why there are people in my area who have differently mapped channel guide data. Like I had 2 channels (6 total counting sub channels) mapped wrong, but they had everything wrong. And they only fixed one of the channels for me too. (And then the other, which is now wrong again  )


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

cramer said:


> Indeed. But lazy automation always wins.
> 
> And for the record, DISH has not been wrong (here) for even one second. 22 and 28 come it just like they always have. Tivo... wrong frequency for weeks, and is so confused it won't even show the channels in the guide (yes, they're checked.)


Dish gets their guide data from TV Guide. And it too has been wrong in a few markets, just not yours. Tribune is fine in my market.

D*, which also gets it's guide data from Tribune, is experiencing the same problems as Tivo.

People using FIOS wish that Verizon used Tribune, because even before this fiasco their guide data was awful.

I would hope Tribune independently verified each frequency change request. They can't just take their customers' word for it.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

bkdtv said:


> I don't really understand what Tribune is doing. Why are they only fixing one or two channels at a time for so many users? Do they think people are calling in and lying about the lineup changes?
> 
> Looks like most of the issues would be fixed right now if Tribune would make all changes requested by customers.


They aren't even changing the frequency on all sub channels. They just randomly pick a sub channel to update and leave the rest incorrect. I can't imagine how they can make these mistakes.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

Puppy76 said:


> Again, I would have had ONE POST, as would have others, had you not continued to complain about us daring to say anything about this. This isn't just me, clearly this capability could and should have been present since the S1's launch.
> 
> Again, I have no idea why it's so important for you to defend this, or why you just keep at it again and again. It is NOT a hard thing to have set up... TEN YEARS AGO.


You have an absolute right to ***** till your heart's content, and I to state that you're being non-productive at best by doing so.

Why do you mention S1? Current problems stem from conversion from analog to digital assignments which S2 and previous TiVo's aren't affected by.

TiVo is handling this in accordance with its established way of conducting its business. They have undoubtedly taken into account the costs of letting the Tribune Company deal with guide data and channel mapping issues as against making changes in their system.

There are parallels between OTA channel mapping and cable channel mapping. In both cases TiVo relies on outside providers with whom they have business relationships; the Tribune Co. for OTA and Cable Co. CableCARDS for Cable. There are other solutions involving technical/software changes which some TiVo users would prefer. TiVo has refrained from going there.

TiVoJerry in his post offering helpful hints asked for patience regarding OTA mapping issues. 
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7094032#post7094032

---
OT, but interesting:

Here's a Canadian based Forum akin to AVS Forum which has info I've never seen before.
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/index.php
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=14
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=81 
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=49384

I've been having fun the past few days researching TVGOS host sources, an alternative to TiVo's EPG, and even discovered a Vancouver BC digital TVGOS host which hasn't yet been posted about. I sent a report to Rabbit Ears:
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos

*Hey, look at Market No. 176. My report is now listed!*


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

fallingwater said:


> You have an absolute right to ***** till your heart's content, and I to state that you're being non-productive at best by doing so.


Again? Do I have to state the obvious that while my our posts are at least related to the topic, yours aren't, and by definition are one level further removed from being useful? 



> Why do you mention S1? Current problems stem from conversion from analog to digital assignments which S2 and previous TiVo's aren't affected by.


Because, as others have already pointed out, this is NOT just a problem related to the conversion.



> TiVo is handling this in accordance with its established way of conducting its business.


We're aware of that.



> They have undoubtedly taken into account the costs of letting the Tribune Company deal with guide data and channel mapping issues as against making changes in their system.


Possibly, but it would have been cheaper to deal with had it been there since the '90s, and at some point they should get it rolled in. It's not a huge deal from a technical standpoint.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Puppy76 said:


> It's not a huge deal from a technical standpoint.


Again, you couldn't be more wrong.


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

I just submitted a lineup correction for the Raleigh Durham area. There are currently 2 channels in the guide (22-1 and 28-1) that are claiming to be on frequency 27. That is the post transition frequency for 22-1, but right now they are on 57 and 28-1 is on 27 (and coming in fine now). So it's just the CW I can't get right now, just in time for Reaper to come back. Thank goodness for alternate download options.


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## a68oliver (Jul 15, 2000)

On 3/2 I reported an incorrect OTA DTV assignment for the local PBS affilliate in Muncie, IN. Today, it has been corrected.

I also reported a half dozen issues with no guide info for channels on Comcast. These have not yet been corrected. I realize this will take more time to confirm with Comcast.


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

BobCamp1 said:


> I would hope Tribune independently verified each frequency change request. They can't just take their customers' word for it.


Unfortunately, they cannot take the stations word for it either. 22/28 (owned by the same company) claim to have "completed digital transition", which they have not. They stopped broadcasting the regular schedule on the analog stations. But they are still broadcasting an analog signal and not broadcasting digital on their full-power frequency.



fallingwater said:


> Why do you mention S1? Current problems stem from conversion from analog to digital assignments which S2 and previous TiVo's aren't affected by.


Not true. The analog channel mappings have been hit several times over the last 8+ years. It has been my impression Tribune has some pretty dim bulbs working there.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

cramer said:


> It has been my impression Tribune has some pretty dim bulbs working there.


I don't claim to know anything about how Tribune/Zap2It actually does their job with these guide data listings. The only conclusion I can fairly come up with, based on the evidence we see, is that their business model does not result in the correction of station errors in a time frame that some TiVo users find acceptable. 
It could very well be they are working diligently and they are making changes quickly enough to be acceptable to their direct licensing customers (such as TiVo), although I really do hope TiVo is _not_ content with this situation.


----------



## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

rainwater said:


> Again, you couldn't be more wrong.


Again I couldn't be more right.

Seriously, this is what we use databases _for_.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Puppy76 said:


> Again I couldn't be more right.
> 
> Seriously, this is what we use databases _for_.


Huh? So you want TiVo to mirror the functionality that Tribune is being paid for? TiVo is not in the business of become the guide data provider. The fact that you think they can easily take over Tribune's job shows how little you understand the guide data business.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

rainwater said:


> Huh? So you want TiVo to mirror the functionality that Tribune is being paid for?


*Sigh* I've been through this what, 12 times before? No, I do not nor have I ever said I want Tivo to mirror the functionality.



> TiVo is not in the business of become the guide data provider. The fact that you think they can easily take over Tribune's job shows how little you understand the guide data business.


I 1) Never said I want Tivo to take over Tribune's job, and 2) would suggest that rather than my "not understanding the guide data business", you don't understand the power of a database.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

fallingwater said:


> You have an absolute right to ***** till your heart's content, and I to state that you're being non-productive at best by doing so.
> 
> Why do you mention S1? Current problems stem from conversion from analog to digital assignments which S2 and previous TiVo's aren't affected by.





cramer said:


> Not true. The analog channel mappings have been hit several times over the last 8+ years. It has been my impression Tribune has some pretty dim bulbs working there.


OK. I don't know how bright Zap2It folks are, but errors are to databases like flies are to dog doo!



> TiVo is handling this in accordance with its established way of conducting its business. They have undoubtedly taken into account the costs of letting the Tribune Company deal with guide data and channel mapping issues as against making changes in their system.
> 
> There are parallels between OTA channel mapping and cable channel mapping. In both cases TiVo relies on outside providers with whom they have business relationships; the Tribune Co. for OTA and Cable Co. CableCARDS for Cable. There are other solutions involving technical/software changes which some TiVo users would prefer. TiVo has refrained from going there.
> 
> ...





Puppy76 said:


> Again? Do I have to state the obvious that while my our posts are at least related to the topic, yours aren't, and by definition are one level further removed from being useful?
> 
> Because, as others have already pointed out, this is NOT just a problem related to the conversion.
> 
> ...


Do you presume to speak for other posters directly or are your first person plurals more 'royal' in nature? 
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=8&q=royal+we

We (that's you and I) disagree about whether *****ing that TiVo is doing things 'wrong' is productive. I'd like to see TiVo offer manual channel mapping which would allow users to directly correct errors, but continually *****ing about that TiVo business decision would be less than useful!

OTOH, constantly reporting errors to Zap2It may ultimately improve TiVo's OTA channel mapping. IMHO, there are now many more mapping problems than is typical because of the current transition and the number will diminish over time; the digital transition is a one time deal!


----------



## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

As the argument continues on this thread, I think the crux of the issue is understanding what exactly the focus is for Tribune/Zap2It (and others) in terms of providing guide data. It seems to me that providing guide data is really all about the programming itself - what show is on which channel when and the like - so I guess I can understand why this digital transition is causing guide data providers so much grief. How much time and effort should Tribune/Zap2It put into proactively fixing these channel frequencies changes and have they/are they currently doing enough? I've come to the conclusion, as I've posted before, I believe that the ultimate authority for keeping a 100&#37; accurate database table of call signs, frequencies, and virtual channel numbers should be the FCC, not really each individual guide data provider. The guide data providers shouldn't have to be getting frequency changes by individual TV watchers, like myself, or even their guide data licensees, like TiVo, if the FCC could be counted on to have current and completely accurate data that could easily be pulled down from their web site by the guide data providers and merged into their own data stores.

On the technical side of things, the frustration as a TiVo user ultimately comes back to the fact that a TiVo box relies on the "fccChannelNumber" to be accurate in the guide data coming from Tribune, to match up programming data with each individual's tuned in stations. This was a software design decision that people have been complaining about for years, such as in the infamous QAM channel mapping threads and now continues in this thread. If TiVo were to have separated out the channel frequency from the guide data, then they would be able to control these channel mappings and perhaps even add end-user control over it (I would say, via our web site accounts, not actually through the TiVo unit's UI). Unfortunately, that is not how they implemented it and like others have said repeatedly in many threads on this site, while we disagree with TiVo on their implementation, none of these complaints over the years on this site has resulted in them making a change.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

cogx said:


> ...If TiVo were to have separated out the channel frequency from the guide data, then they would be able to control these channel mappings and perhaps even add end-user control over it (I would say, via our web site accounts, not actually through the TiVo unit's UI). Unfortunately, that is not how they implemented it...


I'm just curious and have no knowledge of the cost or simplicity of what you suggest, but why do you suggest that a tie through the internet to a user's account be used instead of allowing a relatively simple (XX-XX) number to be substituted directly for a channel number incorrectly mapped in TiVo's EPG.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

fallingwater said:


> We (that's you and I) disagree about whether *****ing that TiVo is doing things 'wrong' is productive. I'd like to see TiVo offer manual channel mapping which would allow users to directly correct errors, but continually *****ing about that TiVo business decision would be less than useful!


What part of this are you not understanding? I must have said the same thing to you a half dozen times at least. Namely, I (and others) would have said it ONCE. ONE TIME, if not for your continued "OH NO IT'S IMPOSSIBLE AND IT'S SO HARD, AND IT'S NOT TIVO'S RESPONSIBILITY". Over and over and over and over and over again. THAT (complaining about us complaining) is certainly-at BEST-no more useful than us complaining-what would have been ONE TIME-about Tivo not fixing this.

I should think that someone who thinks it's a waste of time to complain would at some point stop COMPLAINING about us complaining. I mean... *sigh*

And then you again and again make the claim that I want Tivo to take over for Tribune, which not once have I nor anyone else on here said. We want them to fix channel mapping-at least on a temporary basis-when we call in, or give us the ability to do so. That is EXACTLY the type of thing that is easy to do with a database. Possible not with their current setup WE GET THAT. But it's a capability that could and should have existed since the 90s.


----------



## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

fallingwater said:


> I'm just curious and have no knowledge of the cost or simplicity of what you suggest, but why do you suggest that a tie through the internet to a user's account be used instead of allowing a relatively simple (XX-XX) number to be substituted directly for a channel number incorrectly mapped in TiVo's EPG.


My observation as a 5 year TiVo user is that they are extremely conservative when it comes to making changes to the UI on their hardware, let alone writing and testing the routines to do channel mapping adjustments in our TiVo hardware. I'm pretty sure anytime this end-user channel mapping might have come up in their developer meetings, they would strike it down as just too much work to want to bother with it. 
However, if they wrote a web app interface to our channel lineups and let us make channel mapping changes on-line, then their central servers would do the necessary processing of our guide data and then the TiVo hardware in our homes just downloads the fixed guide data the same as always. Not trivial, by any means, but far less complicated than adding such functionality to the TiVo software.
That's just what popped into my head, anyway, but that's as someone who has never seen their source code or data stores, so this is all completely speculative on my part.


----------



## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

Puppy76 said:


> What part of this are you not understanding? I must have said the same thing to you a half dozen times at least. Namely, I (and others) would have said it ONCE. ONE TIME, if not for your continued "OH NO IT'S IMPOSSIBLE AND IT'S SO HARD, AND IT'S NOT TIVO'S RESPONSIBILITY". Over and over and over and over and over again. THAT (complaining about us complaining) is certainly-at BEST-no more useful than us complaining-what would have been ONE TIME-about Tivo not fixing this.


You apparently have trouble understanding that while you have the right to complain and to explain why you're complaining you don't control the content of replies to your posts. 



> I should think that someone who thinks it's a waste of time to complain would at some point stop COMPLAINING about us complaining. I mean... *sigh*


Actually I've gotten far more responses from you after criticising you than you've received from TiVo after criticising them. 



> And then you again and again make the claim that I want Tivo to take over for Tribune, which not once have I nor anyone else on here said. We want them to fix channel mapping-at least on a temporary basis-when we call in, or give us the ability to do so. That is EXACTLY the type of thing that is easy to do with a database. Possible not with their current setup WE GET THAT. But it's a capability that could and should have existed since the 90s.


TiVo contracts with Tribune's Zap2It services to correct channel mapping errors. TiVo coulda', shoulda' done lotsa' things, but it's their business and they perhaps know more about how to best run their business than fans on a user Forum kickin' the shinola. 

It would be nice if TiVo would allow users to directly substitute channel numbers when EPG numbers are wrong, but they don't. That's not a technical decision it's a business decision. 

I've begun using Sony's now discontinued hi-def DVRs which employ TVGOS for precisely that capability. The latest versions of TVGOS use data from digital host channels and are much easier to use and have far larger capacities than older analog based versions.


----------



## JFKLS1 (Feb 25, 2009)

fallingwater said:


> You apparently have trouble understanding that while you have the right to complain and to explain why you're complaining you don't control the content of replies to your posts.
> 
> Actually I've gotten far more responses from you after criticising you than you've received from TiVo after criticising them.
> 
> ...


I too have a Sony HDD-250 and it is completely unaffected by this. The guide on it has been perfect. I just wish it could record more than 1 channel at time..


----------



## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

cogx said:


> My observation as a 5 year TiVo user is that they are extremely conservative when it comes to making changes to the UI on their hardware, let alone writing and testing the routines to do channel mapping adjustments in our TiVo hardware. I'm pretty sure anytime this end-user channel mapping might have come up in their developer meetings, they would strike it down as just too much work to want to bother with it.
> However, if they wrote a web app interface to our channel lineups and let us make channel mapping changes on-line, then their central servers would do the necessary processing of our guide data and then the TiVo hardware in our homes just downloads the fixed guide data the same as always. Not trivial, by any means, but far less complicated than adding such functionality to the TiVo software.


That's a good idea, I hadn't thought of doing it on the web. That then also keeps it hidden away a bit better for people who really would be confused (although I don't really think it would be much more confusing than the channel list to begin with).



fallingwater said:


> You apparently have trouble understanding that while you have the right to complain and to explain why you're complaining you don't control the content of replies to your posts.


*Sigh*



> I've begun using Sony's now discontinued hi-def DVRs which employ TVGOS for precisely that capability. The latest versions of TVGOS use data from digital host channels and are much easier to use and have far larger capacities than older analog based versions.


Oh yuck, I had one of those things...well it was an SD unit, and I *HATED* the TVGuide software. Just disastrous, but it was for analog. Totally non-functional, which is probably why my unit was the first and last model like that (Unfortunately that TVGuide stuff has shown up in some TVs of late...in theory I wouldn't mind having a free guide on my TV, except that it probably doesn't work either, and it keeps the TV turned on about 1/3 of the time trying to pull in data).


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

cogx said:


> I worked up a template to send to Zap2It (Tribune) that perhaps will help them figure these things out easier, I don't know. I filled it out for your channel problem. Their e-mail address is [email protected] and they want a subject line of "Lineup Discrepancy".
> 
> lineup id='PC:85026'
> lineup name='Local Broadcast Listings'
> ...


Sigh, my Tivo shows KAZTDT back on 25, could you pull this again for zip code 85053 so I can email them again? Thanks


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

Puppy76 said:


> except that it probably doesn't work either, and it keeps the TV turned on about 1/3 of the time trying to pull in data).


I have two TVs with different versions of analog tv guide and neither turn on when receiving guide data.

I loved it at the time, when you hit info it would include the VCRPlus number making it quick to create timers on my VCR.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

kb7oeb said:


> Sigh, my Tivo shows KAZTDT back on 25, could you pull this again for zip code 85053 so I can email them again? Thanks


Yikes.

callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber	lineup	lineupType	postalCode
KAZTDT	32426	7	1	25	PC:85053	LocalBroadcast	85053
KAZTDT2	61548	7	2	25	PC:85053	LocalBroadcast	85053


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## JFKLS1 (Feb 25, 2009)

Well this is wonderful. On Thursday, WEEK-DT 25.1 switched their frequency again back to the original one. All of the sudden it said no signal so I did a channel scan on both TiVos and sure enuf, duplicate 25.1 again. They went from 25 to 57 back to 25 again. I'm sure glad i told TiVo that they switched to 57. Guess I will call again on Monday.....


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

fallingwater said:


> I've begun using Sony's now discontinued hi-def DVRs which employ TVGOS for precisely that capability. The latest versions of TVGOS use data from digital host channels and are much easier to use and have far larger capacities than older analog based versions.





Puppy76 said:


> Oh yuck, I had one of those things...well it was an SD unit, and I *HATED* the TVGuide software. Just disastrous, but it was for analog. Totally non-functional, which is probably why my unit was the first and last model like that (Unfortunately that TVGuide stuff has shown up in some TVs of late...in theory I wouldn't mind having a free guide on my TV, except that it probably doesn't work either, and it keeps the TV turned on about 1/3 of the time trying to pull in data).


What model of Sony(?) DVR are you talking about? Obviously your SD 'one of those things' isn't a Sony hi-def DVR. As I said, digitally sourced TVGOS is significantly improved from earlier analog versions.

TVGOS requires that a TV or DVR using it be off to download guide data. Sony's hi-def DVR can be pre-set to automatically turn itself off at a given time to insure that guide data is downloaded. (The preset can be cancelled on-the-fly if you're watching something at the time. A scheduled recording will also override the preset.)

TVGOS data is downloaded at specific intervals every day. As stated, each interval repeats the day's info.

----

From the excellent but now outdated SpiffSpace Sony guide: 
http://www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html#Section227

2.1.8 When do the guide data downloads take place?

The download times are (all in EST):
2:21 AM (180 minutes)
7:01 AM (180 minutes)
10:06 AM (180 minutes)
1:46 PM (180 minutes)

Your DVR must be OFF to receive this information. Each of these downloads contains the same data, so only one of them is needed to get a particular day's download info.

2.1.9 Are there other (non-guide) download times during the day?

Yes there are other download times. They are (all in EST):

12:41 AM (30 minutes)
1:11 PM (30 minutes)
11:01 PM (30 minutes)
1:16 AM (60 minutes)
5:56 AM (60 minutes)
5:46 PM (60 minutes)
11:36 PM (60 minutes)

Your DVR must be OFF to receive this information. These downloads are used for stuff like settings (channel lineups, zip codes, programming providers, ads, etc).

Other (chuckle) Spiffy Sony/TVGOS resources:
http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php
http://www.spiffspace.com/TVGOS_Training_Manual.pdf


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

The last RDU channel with a bad mapping seems to be fixed. Only took a couple of days. Not too bad compared to what others have been experiencing.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

JFKLS1 said:


> Well this is wonderful. On Thursday, WEEK-DT 25.1 switched their frequency again back to the original one. All of the sudden it said no signal so I did a channel scan on both TiVos and sure enuf, duplicate 25.1 again. They went from 25 to 57 back to 25 again. I'm sure glad i told TiVo that they switched to 57. Guess I will call again on Monday.....


Please do call them! Maybe they'll take it more seriously, the more complaints they get with the same issue. I called on...maybe Thursdayish? Somewhere around there, and it's still not fixed.

59.1 wasn't working yesterday-it had a signal, but no picture or sound (but I guess it was working this morning).

I *think* I have my antenna somewhere where I may actually get reception for everything. Hopefully 19 will get better after the shut off in June.

I'm still not sure why the files I convert for my iPod are larger than they were though, though lowering the bit rate on one slightly let it play :-/



kb7oeb said:


> I have two TVs with different versions of analog tv guide and neither turn on when receiving guide data.


They actually are, just not the screen. They draw quite a bit more power unfortunately. Sony's kind of gotten in hot water for some of their models drawing a lot more than what they should in "standby", but it's really because they're not really in "standby" a ton of the time because of that TV Guide software.


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## jjeff (Feb 21, 2009)

Leo Valiant said:


> This just happened to me as well. The local PBS went all digital yesterday and changed their frequency. The guide shows the channel twice now, the old one with no signal and guide data, and the new one with signal and no guide data.


The exact thing is happening to me for 2 digital stations and I lost listings for one analog PBS station that's still active(at least until the June analog cutoff date, if they do it this time). It's been the same since 2/17 I called Tivo for the 3rd time today, in the same number of weeks. 7-10 days is the mantra.
I'm OTA but it sounds like some people on cable have the correct listings so maybe a month is the charm


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

That shouldn't be happening. Call them and ask what's going on


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## jjeff (Feb 21, 2009)

I hate to be a pest, it's not the end of the world but it's kind of annoying having to do look at one grid and then use manual events for another channel. I'll call again next week though.
The most annoying thing though is when I do a channel scan to see if the mapping has been corrected it takes ~35 minutes and searches both OTA and cable channels, even though I'm only OTA. Has any Tivos ever allowed you to specify cable or OTA, or have they always searched both?


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

jjeff said:


> it's not the end of the world but it's kind of annoying having to do look at one grid and then use manual events for another channel.


Yes, it makes paying for a TiVo monthly subscription (or having paid for a lifetime subscription) meaningless, if you can't have guide data associated with your channels. What are we animals, going back to the days of programming VCR events?

What is the callsigns of your problem channels?


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

jjeff said:


> I hate to be a pest, it's not the end of the world but it's kind of annoying having to do look at one grid and then use manual events for another channel. I'll call again next week though.
> The most annoying thing though is when I do a channel scan to see if the mapping has been corrected it takes ~35 minutes and searches both OTA and cable channels, even though I'm only OTA. Has any Tivos ever allowed you to specify cable or OTA, or have they always searched both?


You don't need to keep scanning, when they correct the mapping it will update on its own. I didn't get a lineup change message when my channel was updated so I just checked the channel editor each day. I also had to delete the scanned channels afterwards.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

Puppy76 said:


> (Sony TV's) actually are (on), just not the screen. They draw quite a bit more power unfortunately. Sony's kind of gotten in hot water for some of their models drawing a lot more than what they should in "standby", but it's really because they're not really in "standby" a ton of the time because of that TV Guide software.


What you state may be true. Generally though, a display draws more current than its tuner does. TiVo when in 'standby' really is still on too!


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Yeah. That always annoyed me too (means I can't use it in my bedroom) but it's not as bad as that you can't default to turning off the tuners. I have to resort to a series of manual recordings on nonexistant channels throughout the day.


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## jjeff (Feb 21, 2009)

cogx said:


> Yes, it makes paying for a TiVo monthly subscription (or having paid for a lifetime subscription) meaningless, if you can't have guide data associated with your channels. What are we animals, going back to the days of programming VCR events?
> 
> What is the callsigns of your problem channels?


KTCA in Minneapolis MN.
On 2/17 they did some changes(removed a few channels and added a different one). The Tivo guide has information for KTCADT3 but it points to digital channel 34 (wrong channel). The Tivo lists TPTlife in the grid and that goes to the correct channel 16 but alas it has no guide information listed. It's the same thing for KTCADT4 and TPTwx but since it's a aviation weather radar channel I don't really care since it's only 24/7 radar and I never record from it. I'd like to setup a few season passes for TPTlife but since it has no listings I just use manual repeating events, but that's not the same.
On the same date I also lost listings for PBS analog channel 17 KTCI. Since it's exactly the same as digital channel 2.2 (KTCADT2) which I do have listings for, it doesn't really bother me.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

jjeff said:


> KTCA in Minneapolis MN.


Interesting. Well, I must say, the KTCA/KTCI DTV changes are more complicated than most.

Here's what the Tribune guide data shows as of this evening:

callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber
KTCADT	21634	2	1	34
KTCADT2	31260	2	2	34
KTCADT3	31261	2	3	34
KTCADT4	31262	2	4	34

So, from what I can find, KTCADT3 and KTCADT4 should really be KTCIDT3 and KTCIDT4? More importantly, though, Tribune needs to change the fccChannelNumber values to 16 for those 2.3 and 2.4 sub-channels (until June when it looks like they switch to 26). I guess keep contacting Zap2It and TiVo both, hopefully it will eventually get fixed.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

Well, this is good, a sub-channel number mistake for my guide listing was fixed, after I reported it this past weekend (it was low priority for me, that's why I didn't bother with it three weeks ago), and I just checked KTCADT3 and KTCADT4 today and they now show frequency (fccChannelNumber) 16!


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## olsonm3915 (Jan 2, 2007)

cogx said:


> Well, this is good, a sub-channel number mistake for my guide listing was fixed, after I reported it this past weekend (it was low priority for me, that's why I didn't bother with it three weeks ago), and I just checked KTCADT3 and KTCADT4 today and they now show frequency (fccChannelNumber) 16!


That's great- I called Tivo phone support on Tuesday night over the same issue. I wasn't sure if I was getting the problem across to the tech support guy, but it sounds like they may have fixed it.

Unfortunately, as of last night, they now have coincidentally screwed up KARE-TV in the same way- there now exists two copies of 11-1 and 11-2, one pair on the Ch 11 frequency (the ones with the guide data, naturally, but no digital signal until June) and one pair on the Ch 35 frequency (no guide data, but where KARE is actually broadcasting).

How the F*CK can they keep getting it so wrong? One clued-up person on the ground with a digital tuner and access to their database could sort it out in minutes. Maybe it's time to play the "I'm an engineer- let me talk to another engineer!" card.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

I had the problem of dup channels and guided setup fixed them.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

ThAbtO said:


> I had the problem of dup channels and guided setup fixed them.


Guided setup does not fix duplicate channels. Changes to OTA frequencies are fixed by a forced connection (assuming Tribune fixed the guide data). There is a issue with the TiVo software that can result in the guide showing multiple cable channels on a single channel number when the guide removes and adds a station at the same time. This can be fixed by rebooting and the old channel will get removed.


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## jjeff (Feb 21, 2009)

kb7oeb said:


> You don't need to keep scanning, when they correct the mapping it will update on its own. I didn't get a lineup change message when my channel was updated so I just checked the channel editor each day. I also had to delete the scanned channels afterwards.


Thanks, I missed this earlier. Someone else on AVS said the same thing, so I'll stop the channel scans

*cogx*, yes the KTCA/KTCI thing is rather complicated. What makes it even more confusing is channels 2.1 and 2.2 are on physical channel 34 while 2.3 and 2.4 are on different physical channel(16) I guess it can be done but it's definitely not the norm. BTW my mapping is still not working? I have guide listings for 2.3 KTCADT3 and 2.4 KTCADT4 but they both point towards the wrong physical channel 34. I have no listings for 2.3 TPTLife or 2.4 TPTwx but they point towards the correct physical channel 16 According to kb7oeb I shouldn't need to do a channel scan?

*olsonm3915*-Same thing here in regards to 11.1 and 11.2. Tivo has guide info for 11.1 KAREDT and 11.2 KAREDT2 but they point towards analog 11(which they shouldn't do until June after the analog shutdown of KARE's analog 11). Tivo has no listings for 11.1 KARE-HD or 11.2 KARE-wx but they tune to the correct physical channel 35 Similar to the TPT/KTCA problem in that one digital channel has guide info but tunes to the wrong channel and one digital channel has no guide info but tunes to the correct channel.
Oh and while this is irritating and easy to check for you and me (living in this market) it's probably not as easy to verify for someone at Tivo (where ever they are). I'm not saying I'm OK with these problems but I can see how it might happen.

Edit: Do I need to do a forced connection like *rainwater* said? I'm using a phone line so my updates only come once a day during the night, if it was fixed today maybe my Tivo hasn't been updated. Do people using the internet get more frequent downloads, or is it still once/day?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

jjeff said:


> Edit: Do I need to do a forced connection like *rainwater* said? I'm using a phone line so my updates only come once a day during the night, if it was fixed today maybe my Tivo hasn't been updated. Do people using the internet get more frequent downloads, or is it still once/day?


It's still once a day for broadband connections.

If you want to see what changes were made today, you can force a connection now. It may take a few minutes after you force the connection for the changes to take effect.

Any channels without guide info were probably added by a Channel Scan. All the channels added by a scan are marked with an asterisk (*) in Channels -> Channel List. As noted above, a Channel Scan does not affect the channels with guide data.


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## jjeff (Feb 21, 2009)

Thanks bfdtv, I forced the connection but nothing changed. The Tivo still has 2.3 and 2.4 as well as 11.1 and 11.2 mapped incorrectly. I'm not sure what post 276 (from cogx) was referring to? Note I didn't do a rescan or reboot, only forced a connection.


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## olsonm3915 (Jan 2, 2007)

jjeff said:


> Thanks bfdtv, I forced the connection but nothing changed. The Tivo still has 2.3 and 2.4 as well as 11.1 and 11.2 mapped incorrectly. I'm not sure what post 276 (from cogx) was referring to? Note I didn't do a rescan or reboot, only forced a connection.


After rebooting, my Tivo HD now has all the 2.1 through 2.4 subchannels mapped correctly. I would do one more forced connection and then reboot your box.

I just got off the phone with Tivo support, I told them that their KARE channel information was wrong. This is what I am currently seeing right now on my Channel List:

11-1 - KAREDT; digital frequency 11 NBC Affiliate (guide data but no signal)
11-1 - *KARE-HD; digital frequency 35 KARE-HD (signal present w/o guide data)
11-2 - KAREDT2; digital frequency 11 NBC Affiliate (guide data but no signal)
11-2 - *KARE-WX; digital frequency 35 KARE-WX (signal present w/o guide data)

obviously (at least to me) KARE cannot be broadcasting their analog signal on frequency 11 and simultaneously broadcasting two digital channels over that same 6 MHz window... so hopefully someone will fix their channel lineup soon.

Hopefully they won't introduce another bug while they're fixing ch 11...

<fx: fingers crossed>


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

jjeff said:


> Thanks bfdtv, I forced the connection but nothing changed. The Tivo still has 2.3 and 2.4 as well as 11.1 and 11.2 mapped incorrectly. I'm not sure what post 276 (from cogx) was referring to? Note I didn't do a rescan or reboot, only forced a connection.


Has anything changed now?

I'm certain exactly how long it takes for lineup changes to take effect. Normally, guide updates are downloaded between 10pm and 4am, and you just turn on your box the next day to find the changes.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

*sigh*
It's been a week, and WEEK/25-1/2 STILL aren't fixed.

I called back, and they're having me do guided setup again "which I'm almost certain will fix the problem". *sigh*

Well I ran it anyway, and gee, it didn't fix it. Calling back again, for what, the dozenth time?


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## jjeff (Feb 21, 2009)

bkdtv said:


> Has anything changed now?
> 
> I'm certain exactly how long it takes for lineup changes to take effect. Normally, guide updates are downloaded between 10pm and 4am, and you just turn on your box the next day to find the changes.


Ya hoo, at least the 2.x's are working now. It took a forced connection *and* a reboot(at least I had to reboot it, can't say if the forced connection was necessary, but my last download was 4:40 PM yesterday).
The 11's are still mapped wrong but hopefully they'll get fixed soon. Sounds like others are also complaining. Since the 11's are NBC HD I'm sure Tivo will get more complaints vs. the PBS 2's.
Thanks everyone for the help.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

There's no reason to reboot to get the frequency changes to show up. You could of just waited a few minutes for it to index the guide data for it to fix the channels.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

rainwater said:


> There's no reason to reboot to get the frequency changes to show up. You could of just waited a few minutes for it to index the guide data for it to fix the channels.


I think he did wait a few minutes.

A reboot obviously isn't necessary, but in his case, it did take more than a few minutes.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

jjeff said:


> Thanks bfdtv, I forced the connection but nothing changed. The Tivo still has 2.3 and 2.4 as well as 11.1 and 11.2 mapped incorrectly. I'm not sure what post 276 (from cogx) was referring to? Note I didn't do a rescan or reboot, only forced a connection.


I was looking up the channels with schedulesdirect.org for you. Back on 3/10, 
KTCADT3 and KTCADT4 were mapped to frequency 34, the same as the first two sub-channels, but this morning I ran it again and those 2.3 and 2.4 channels had changed to frequency 16.

callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber	postalCode	lineup
KTCADT	21634	2	1	34	55401	PC:55401
KTCADT2	31260	2	2	34	55401	PC:55401
KTCADT3	31261	2	3	16	55401	PC:55401
KTCADT4	31262	2	4	16	55401	PC:55401

Now, how long it takes for the corrected Tribune data to end up on your TiVo, that's still something we haven't quite pinned down yet. I would think you should definitely get the non-scanned 2.3 and 2.4 channels with guide data by Friday late evening at worst, if I had to guess.


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## jjeff (Feb 21, 2009)

Per post 286 after rebooting and only after rebooting did things straighten out. I waited a couple hours after a forced connection but nothing changed, until the reboot. Now I guess I don't know if I had *just* rebooted and not did the forced connection if things would also be OK, but either way all is OK with the 2's now. Still waiting for the 11's though.
I went to your schedulesdirect.org but it looks like a person has to be a member to look things up?


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Puppy76 said:


> *sigh*
> It's been a week, and WEEK/25-1/2 STILL aren't fixed.
> 
> I called back, and they're having me do guided setup again "which I'm almost certain will fix the problem". *sigh*
> ...


*Sigh* Called back, and the first call apparently the guy couldn't hear me, so I called again, and this time was told it'll be fixed tomorrow for sure. Okay. Sure.

Every time I've been leaving messages trying to make it clear that the customer service people are fine (I don't want THEM to get in trouble), but that they need some mechanism for fixing this...

Other Peoria area people, give these guys a call! Maybe if we gang up on them they'll fix it!

If only HD didn't look so good, because I can't believe I'm risking over $800 on this...


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

jjeff said:


> I went to your schedulesdirect.org but it looks like a person has to be a member to look things up?


They have a free 7 day trial, but then you still need to figure out which software to use to actually get at the raw data. I wrote a batch file calling XMLTV with the various parameters needed and a jscript to parse through the raw XML file, to dump the channel lineups so that it is now _mostly_ easy, but still not completely automated by any means.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

olsonm3915 said:


> This is what I am currently seeing right now on my Channel List:
> 
> 11-1 - KAREDT; digital frequency 11 NBC Affiliate (guide data but no signal)
> 11-1 - *KARE-HD; digital frequency 35 KARE-HD (signal present w/o guide data)
> ...


Yep, the Tribune/Zap2It guide data has KAREDT and KAREDT2 at frequency 11, even though they are not switching to that until the June deadline:

callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber	postalCode	lineup
KAREDT	20505	11	1	11	55401	PC:55401
KAREDT2	31041	11	2	11	55401	PC:55401

Once Tribune gets the fccChannelNumber values for KAREDT and KAREDT2 changed back to 35, and your TiVo ends up getting that fixed guide data, you'll then be able to delete those two scanned-in (*) channels.


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## jjeff (Feb 21, 2009)

jjeff said:


> Ya hoo, at least the 2.x's are working now. It took a forced connection *and* a reboot(at least I had to reboot it, can't say if the forced connection was necessary, but my last download was 4:40 PM yesterday).
> The 11's are still mapped wrong but hopefully they'll get fixed soon. Sounds like others are also complaining. Since the 11's are NBC HD I'm sure Tivo will get more complaints vs. the PBS 2's.
> Thanks everyone for the help.


OK I'm going to fess up I forgot after the reboot I still didn't have correct mapping for the 2's. It was only after the reboot when I did *another* forced connection that things straightened out.
So the time line was:
~4:30 PM today did a forced connection, no change
~7:00 PM today did a reboot, no change
~7:30 PM today did another forced connection, this time Tivo corrected itself.
I forgot about the last forced connection since I was watching a DVD and I just did it in the back round. I only remembered it when I was looking back in the phone settings screen. Sorry for any confusion.
I'm not sure what really fixed things but I know one thing for sure, I didn't have to do the 30 minute channel scan, Tivo automatically removed the wrong channels and correctly mapped the right ones
Maybe the order I should have done things was 1.Reboot then 2. force connection, instead of the other way around like I did at first. I'm still new to the whole Tivo thing and I'm sure the way stations are moving there channels around is really complicating things for Tivo/Tribune.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

Puppy76 said:


> Other Peoria area people, give these guys a call! Maybe if we gang up on them they'll fix it!


Yep, as of this evening, the Zap2It guide data still has the wrong fccChannelNumber value for WEEKDT and WEEKDT, they still have it at 57 instead of 25:

callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber	postalCode	lineup
WEEKDT	34803	25	1	57	61611	PC:61611
WEEKDT2	48564	25	2	57	61611	PC:61611


Of course, remember, this station originally posted on their web site that they were going to switch to frequency 25 on 2/18, but then didn't actually change until 3/3. Not that it shouldn't be fixed by now, over a week later, but the first wave of the DTV transition was definitely a cluster####.
I can just hardly wait until June...


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

cogx said:


> Yep, as of this evening, the Zap2It guide data still has the wrong fccChannelNumber value for WEEKDT and WEEKDT, they still have it at 57 instead of 25:
> 
> callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber	postalCode	lineup
> WEEKDT	34803	25	1	57	61611	PC:61611
> ...


Thanks for the info-at least I know it's still wrong.

I'd have given up, but everything else does seem to be working well, and GEEZ does it look good. Best I've seen outside of Blu Ray. Some shows are being broadcast at over 2MB/s, which is just crazy. Heck, even the Simpsons (the new ones) look amazing.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Tribune finally removed all the analogs channels from the guide in my market today that turned off on Feb 17th.


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## a68oliver (Jul 15, 2000)

jjeff said:


> OK I'm going to fess up I forgot after the reboot I still didn't have correct mapping for the 2's. It was only after the reboot when I did *another* forced connection that things straightened out.
> So the time line was:
> ~4:30 PM today did a forced connection, no change
> ~7:00 PM today did a reboot, no change
> ~7:30 PM today did another forced connection, this time Tivo corrected itself.


If I recall correctly from a post a very, very long time ago.... Tivo locks down the file you download for schedule updates at 6:30 pm. However, I don't know what time zone that is.

Therefore, your 4:30 download could have had old data in it and your 7:30 download could have been refreshed with corrected data.

I suspect the info would have corrected itself regardless of the reboots. I recently reported a lineup/frequency error and it corrected itself with no reboots within about 4 days. There was no Tivo message to notify me of the correction.


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

Ditto here, 3 analogs removed, still no fix for KAZT-CA though.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

a68oliver said:


> I suspect the info would have corrected itself regardless of the reboots. I recently reported a lineup/frequency error and it corrected itself with no reboots within about 4 days. There was no Tivo message to notify me of the correction.


Frequency changes for existing channels in one's TiVo lineup will happen without any message on the TiVo, it is just a matter of the Tribune's database getting the correct fccChannelNumber values in and then that data eventually being pushed down to their TiVo. That doesn't require a reboot or a new channel scan, just for the updated guide data to be downloaded.

However, suppose one has a station that has a faulty channel mapping, say station KLLR 13-3 is really suppose to be 13-2, one _will_ get a message notification when that is changed, so that they know to go in and checkmark that new 13-2 channel to be part of the programming searches.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

rainwater said:


> Tribune finally removed all the analogs channels from the guide in my market today that turned off on Feb 17th.





kb7oeb said:


> Ditto here, 3 analogs removed, still no fix for KAZT-CA though.


Yep, me too-though of course the actual problems with the data weren't fixed.



cogx said:


> Frequency changes for existing channels in one's TiVo lineup will happen without any message on the TiVo, it is just a matter of the Tribune's database getting the correct fccChannelNumber values in and then that data eventually being pushed down to their TiVo. That doesn't require a reboot or a new channel scan, just for the updated guide data to be downloaded.
> 
> However, suppose one has a station that has a faulty channel mapping, say station KLLR 13-3 is really suppose to be 13-2, one _will_ get a message notification when that is changed, so that they know to go in and checkmark that new 13-2 channel to be part of the programming searches.


I think when three of my channels were fixed there was no notification. I just noticed it in my channel listing in the control panel.

Of course Tivo's had me redo the guided setup at least twice now "because that will fix it for sure!". I go along with it, but it's fixed nothing. (Geez, I just looked and I had to call SIX TIMES just last night, with a final verdict of "Oh, it'll be fixed by tomorrow!")

They also claimed that I had called this in last Friday, so it had "only" been four business days. That's flat out false. I double checked my phone, and we're now at 7 business days, 9 days since I called, and a day short of three weeks since I bought it...and still the guide data's wrong.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

My local ABC (WLOS) just got all of it's digital channel frequencies changed to the wrong value. So it took a month to fix the other channels they screwed up that never changed, and now they randomly change my local ABC to the wrong frequency. I can see being behind in the changes, but to make changes like this that just shows how incompetent Tribune/TiVo really are when it comes to handling this situation.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

rainwater said:


> My local ABC (WLOS) just got all of it's digital channel frequencies changed to the wrong value. So it took a month to fix the other channels they screwed up that never changed, and now they randomly change my local ABC to the wrong frequency. I can see being behind in the changes, but to make changes like this that just shows how incompetent Tribune/TiVo really are when it comes to handling this situation.


During this whole mess since 2/17, I've been wondering if it is possible that there are confused people out there that are giving Tivo (or Zap2It) false information, because, well, they honestly aren't able to grasp what the real problem is (channel frequency versus virtual channel mapping). If that is the case, it would go back to what some were saying that Tribune/Zap2It really need to take their time and doing their own investigation into each channel change, to make sure it is accurate, not just continually listening to complaints and then end up changing frequencies back and forth every other week.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

cogx said:


> During this whole mess since 2/17, I've been wondering if it is possible that there are confused people out there that are giving Tivo (or Zap2It) false information, because, well, they honestly aren't able to grasp what the real problem is (channel frequency versus virtual channel mapping). If that is the case, it would go back to what some were saying that Tribune/Zap2It really need to take their time and doing their own investigation into each channel change, to make sure it is accurate, not just continually listening to complaints and then end up changing frequencies back and forth every other week.


Well I was saying they could just remap it on a case by case basis if need be.

But at any rate, they already do take their time-a *LOT* of time.

I *think* but am not sure-that Vista's Media center does let you manually remap if need be. I wish I knew what a good tuner was for Windows, because I *think* Tivo's actually put some good tuners in the HD XL, as it's pulling in a station that even my Sony TV can't pull in (let alone my converter box)-and I've *NEVER* had anything beat a Sony tuner before.

At any rate, I should probably cancel service I support Monday if this isn't fixed by tonight, while I can still send the thing back...but I don't want to. The hardware is working, I'm getting reception (aside from my "My Network TV" station that seems to have just quit broadcasting). I know the Tivo interface and scheduling software works, etc., but this is just ridiculous. I've had it since the 22, and have never had it fully functional.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

cogx said:


> During this whole mess since 2/17, I've been wondering if it is possible that there are confused people out there that are giving Tivo (or Zap2It) false information, because, well, they honestly aren't able to grasp what the real problem is (channel frequency versus virtual channel mapping).


But in my case, I don't think anyone is reporting a guide issue since there isn't an issue. Tribune is the one making the problem since no one is going to report that they need to change a frequency when the channel is currently working. Based on their history, Tribune refuses to make any change unless they get verification so I have no clue what they are doing.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

rainwater said:


> But in my case, I don't think anyone is reporting a guide issue since there isn't an issue. Tribune is the one making the problem since no one is going to report that they need to change a frequency when the channel is currently working. Based on their history, Tribune refuses to make any change unless they get verification so I have no clue what they are doing.


That was true in my case too. They randomly changed 6 stations that had all been working...then fixed them, and now two are broken again.


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## JFKLS1 (Feb 25, 2009)

It has been a full week since the last time I called them and not 1 of the 5 channels that I have no data for(all 5 were given to them), works yet. Sorting out all these manual recordings is a major pain.....I really hope this is fixed soon.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

JFKLS1 said:


> It has been a full week since the last time I called them and not 1 of the 5 channels that I have no data for(all 5 were given to them), works yet. Sorting out all these manual recordings is a major pain.....I really hope this is fixed soon.


Give 'em a call again tonight 

It's been 9 days for me now (since 25 'broke' again). What other channels aren't working for you? I think 25-1 and 25-2 are the only ones not working. 59-1 doesn't seem to be broadcasting, but I think that's actually the station itself (I should try to contact them too, I guess).

I can't believe with at least TWO of us calling about the same issue that it still hasn't been fixed yet!


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

This is absurd. I called back again tonight. First call he can't hear me again. Second call, the person tells me Tribune called my local station last week, and that they determined they do have the correct frequency (uh...no).

If that's the case, that they closed this a week ago, WHY THE HELL DIDN'T THEY TELL ME THAT YESTERDAY? 

Yesterday it's all "repeat guided setup, that'll fix it for sure!". Did, does nothing. Then it's "It's still being worked on, but it'll be ready tomorrow!" Today, still not working.

And now it's supposedly ANOTHER WEEK.

Does anyone know of good tuners for Vista's media center? I mean this is just insane. I've got to be almost out of my return period, and they still haven't fixed one of my favorite channels. (And there's MORE of this to come!) Part of me thinks I need to give up, send back the HD XL on Monday, and cancel service, and start over with a Vista box of some sort.

Oh, and I got ANOTHER case number. My fourth so far.


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## jgantert (Jan 24, 2008)

Ugh, in DC they screwed up WJLAs (7-1) frequency. Switched it from 39 to 7. So now you have to do a manual scan to get the channel on frequency 39, but there is no guide data, and non of the recordings work on that channel. PITA.

They said it would be fixed in a week or so. We'll see... I can't believe they would screw up DC, one of the major DMA's (#9).


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

Puppy76 said:


> Does anyone know of good tuners for Vista's media center? I mean this is just insane. I've got to be almost out of my return period, and they still haven't fixed one of my favorite channels. (And there's MORE of this to come!) Part of me thinks I need to give up, send back the HD XL on Monday, and cancel service, and start over with a Vista box of some sort.
> 
> Oh, and I got ANOTHER case number. My fourth so far.


ROTFLOL. Go ahead. Windows also uses Tribune for their guide data, so you will have the same exact issue. So does D*. Dish uses TV Guide, and they haven't had as many issues, but they do have some.

If you don't like your Tivo, and I don't blame you if you don't, I would return it as this digital transition mess will continue through to July or August. Or get cable for a while so you can watch the major networks.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

BobCamp1 said:


> ROTFLOL. Go ahead. Windows also uses Tribune for their guide data, so you will have the same exact issue. So does D*.


They have ways to fix it though. The people in a thread or my area already have the issue taken care of, if they're using Vista for their DVR.


> If you don't like your Tivo, and I don't blame you if you don't, I would return it as this digital transition mess will continue through to July or August. Or get cable for a while so you can watch the major networks.


I like the Tivo, but it's been over 3 weeks, and I still don't have guide data for everything...and after this last experience, I know Tivo will flat out lie to you, or at least have no clue what they're doing. I don't know about risking over $800 on something that I have no control over whether it'll ever work right.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

Puppy76 said:


> I like the Tivo, but it's been over 3 weeks, and I still don't have guide data for everything...and after this last experience, I know Tivo will flat out lie to you, or at least have no clue what they're doing. I don't know about risking over $800 on something that I have no control over whether it'll ever work right.


I've had my S3 for 2.5 years now and 2/17/09 was the first time I ever had a problem with a channel to where the guide data didn't work (and I never had such problems with my Series2 the two years before that), forcing me to put in manual recordings for a couple of days. Had the channel lineup not worked and calling TiVo support didn't resolve it within the first three weeks, I know for a fact I would have returned it and got my money back.

While I'm not going to blindly defend TiVo as so many on this web site do, I will echo what some have said in this thread that it just so happens you picked the worst possible time to buy a new TiVo, what with this partial DTV transition (fiasco) taking place. Had 2/17/09 been *THE* final day to turn off analog, I would like to think that nearly all of the channel frequency and mapping issues would be solved now 18 business days later.

If you return it and order it again say in August, I'm sure all of the lineups across the country will be fixed by then. (Not going to put money on it, but I'd like to believe that).


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## dnordquist (Feb 26, 2007)

I'm one of those affected by KARE 11 (in Minneapolis / Saint Paul). Like all of you, I saw that 11-1 and 11-2 went blank, so like you, I checked in the channel lineup. Like you, I turned off the old 11-1 and 11-2 and checked the new 11-1 and 11-2, and like you, I don't have guide data for the new channels.

Like all of you, my wife didn't get ER this week, so here I am.

It looks like we've been knocked out for at least a week now. So far, I have channel scanned, forced a connection, done the half-setup thing (only for channels), rebooted (yanked the cord - forgot there was a menu for that), deleted scanned channels (some by hand, then by the "delete all scanned channels" item) and now am channel scanning again.

Two questions: nobody's mentioned KARE 11, 11-1 or 11-2 for a few days. Is this still an issue for you? Are we still hoping it just appears / randomly works one day? People a few pages ago said to call - who do I call? Just regular TiVo customer service?

All those commercials with old people holding antennas and cables were right - this is / was / has been a cluster____.

Thanks!


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

dnordquist said:


> Are we still hoping it just appears / randomly works one day? People a few pages ago said to call - who do I call? Just regular TiVo customer service?


You need to call TiVo customer service. Make sure you know in advance what the problem is.

Tell TiVo that KARE-DT -- the NBC affiliate in Minneapolis -- and all of its subchannels were prematurely moved to the post-shutoff frequency of 11, when they are still using frequency 35 until June 12. Tell them that you're stuck with a black screen until that local off-air channel is changed back to frequency 35. Before you hang up, ask for a ticket number so you can be sure the lineup change was submitted.

I would also put in a call or email to KARE-DT. If KARE is made aware of the problem, they can contact Tribune directly; they have a strong incentive to make sure off-air viewers with DirecTV, TiVo, and WMC equipment can receive their channel.

As soon as Tribune updates their guide data, the channel will be fixed with the next connection to TiVo's servers.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

dnordquist said:


> I'm one of those affected by KARE 11 (in Minneapolis / Saint Paul). Like all of you, I saw that 11-1 and 11-2 went blank, so like you, I checked in the channel lineup. Like you, I turned off the old 11-1 and 11-2 and checked the new 11-1 and 11-2, and like you, I don't have guide data for the new channels.
> 
> Like all of you, my wife didn't get ER this week, so here I am.
> 
> ...


Yeah, NOTHING will happen without conntacting Tivo-and be sure to call them back at the end of the 5 business days if it hasn't been fixed. I was flat out lied to repeatedly, but nothing at all will happen if you don't call


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Tribune is now apparently reporting the wrong frequency for WCAU-DT 10.1 NBC out of Philadephia. Tribune is using the "new" frequency which won't go into affect until Jun 12th. They just made this change recently for reasons I can't fathom.

Fortunately the cable simulcasted version of the channel still works.


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## olsonm3915 (Jan 2, 2007)

Puppy76 said:


> Yeah, NOTHING will happen without conntacting Tivo-and be sure to call them back at the end of the 5 business days if it hasn't been fixed. I was flat out lied to repeatedly, but nothing at all will happen if you don't call


I did call Tivo last week about KARE-DT and KARE-DT2 being incorrectly assigned to frequency 11, when in fact they are still using frequency 35 for their digital broadcast. I got a case number so I will be following up with Tivo. I also plan on calling KARE-11 today. I have just emailed KARE with a link to this forum, also.

[copy of my email to KARE]

_
Please help your over-the-air viewers who watch KARE's digital HD broadcast deal with a simple technical issue.

I am a Tivo subscriber and watch KARE in digital HD on 11-1 and 11-2 (frequency 35, 596-602 MHz). But my Tivo's guide data for 11-1 and 11-2 incorrectly points to frequency 11 (198-204 MHz), which of course is still in use for analog broadcast until June 12th. So any programs on KARE-HD that my Tivo tries to record get a blank screen. I can actually tune in KARE-HD by manually tuning to the correct frequency, but cannot schedule any recordings due to the guide data mismatch. 
All of your viewers who use an antenna to pick up KARE HD via a Tivo are having this problem. Tivo has been notified multiple times but for some reason, the folks who maintain the guide data database (I believe it is Tribune Media) aren't fixing it.

[link to this topic deleted as I only have 3 posts!]

Perhaps a correction coming from an authoritative source such as a KARE engineer might help convince Tivo and Tribune Media that their error is real.

Please help!

Regards
<signature>
<phone number>
_


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## Nugent (Jan 20, 2004)

rainwater said:


> My local ABC (WLOS) just got all of it's digital channel frequencies changed to the wrong value. So it took a month to fix the other channels they screwed up that never changed, and now they randomly change my local ABC to the wrong frequency. I can see being behind in the changes, but to make changes like this that just shows how incompetent Tribune/TiVo really are when it comes to handling this situation.


I'm not always sure where the problem lies. The WLOS website (http://www.wlos.com/sections/station/index.shtml) states that their digital transmission is on 13.1. This is reflected on my TiVo. However, they are actually broadcasting on channel 56, with no guide data. So I sent an email to the station and received a thanks from the chief engineer, who said he had contacted Tribune and others and "...hope that this will be resolved VERY shortly."

There is a lot of this going on all over the country, and we will have to be patient until after June when it all settles down. (Also, CBS has to replace their tower, which fell over!)


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## olsonm3915 (Jan 2, 2007)

Nugent said:


> I'm not always sure where the problem lies. The WLOS website states that their digital transmission is on 13.1. This is reflected on my TiVo. However, they are actually broadcasting on channel 56, with no guide data. So I sent an email to the station and received a thanks from the chief engineer, who said he had contacted Tribune and others and "...hope that this will be resolved VERY shortly."
> 
> There is a lot of this going on all over the country, and we will have to be patient until after June when it all settles down. (Also, CBS has to replace their tower, which fell over!)


I disagree that we have to wait until June. There is no reason these issues cannot be fixed right now. Given how poorly this has been handled, it's a pretty sure bet all the fixes that are done now are going to be obliterated come June with a whole new set of errors to fix. So be it, but why endure three months of incorrect guide data?

BTW, "13.1" is essentially meaningless, it doesn't tell you what frequency the signal is being broadcast on. It's merely a convenience for all of us who are used to referring to broadcast stations by their channel number. Now that channel numbers have been virtualized, TV stations want to keep that link in the public with their historical broadcast channel even though they are on a totally different frequency.


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## Nugent (Jan 20, 2004)

olsonm3915 said:


> I disagree that we have to wait until June.


Realistically, many of us will have these issues until after June. That does not mean that we accept the situation - we should attempt to fix things, where possible.



olsonm3915 said:


> BTW, "13.1" is essentially meaningless, it doesn't tell you what frequency the signal is being broadcast on. It's merely a convenience for all of us who are used to referring to broadcast stations by their channel number. Now that channel numbers have been virtualized, TV stations want to keep that link in the public with their historical broadcast channel even though they are on a totally different frequency.


In the case of WLOS, their post-transition virtual and actual channels will both be 13. When I quoted 13.1, I meant the actual broadcast channel.


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## markens (Apr 12, 2007)

Nugent said:


> In the case of WLOS, their post-transition virtual and actual channels will both be 13. When I quoted 13.1, I meant the actual broadcast channel.


As was mentioned earlier, saying "13.1" in this context is essentially meaningless, if what you really mean is "frequency 13." They don't mean the same thing. There is no requirement or expectation that a digital stream on frequency 13 even has a digital channel 13.x.

Here are details of a current problem I'm dealing with to illustrate, which also happens to involve frequency 13: A local low power translator (K13JR-D, Medford, OR) is broadcasting on channel 13. The PSIP on the two subchannels is 5.1 and 5.2 (to match the identity of their main transmitter, which is indeed on frequency 5). I just got a lineup addition for this translator. It correctly lists frequency 13, but incorrectly lists the virtual subchannel as 13.1.

So what happens is the TiVo tunes frequency 13 looking for subchannel 13.1, but doesn't find it because it's not there. What *is* there is good signal strength, program guide info, and a black screen.

The TiVo does see subchannels 5.1 and 5.2 on that frequency, and adds them to the channel list as if found by scanning. So selecting 5.1 or 5.2 find the programming on frequency 13 just fine, but no program guide info.

The fix is to specify the correct subchannels actually being used in the digital stream. I've bypassed TiVo cust svc entirely on this one, directly enlisting the aid of the engineering dept of the station involved to fix it.

So, the point of bringing this up in the quoted context is that using terminology incorrectly can impede getting resolution.


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## dnordquist (Feb 26, 2007)

Status update: I called TiVo. Despite this being kinda geeky and technical, Kaitlyn knew exactly where I was coming from, took a note of my problem for "the lineup support group", and gave me a case number. She said the problem had already been opened, so it shouldn't even take the 5-7 business days she quoted me.

It only took 5 minutes to call - glad I got it taken care of. Now we'll see when KARE 11 comes back.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Oh I hope it goes that smoothly. I've been told so many different things, that I don't really believe them anymore 

They'll sound good, but then...


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

For those who are still not entirely sure what is going on with missing guide data for OTA broadcast channels, due to the partial DTV transition we are in the middle of, here is a fictitious example of Tribune/Zap2It guide data for fake channel KPWPDT:


```
<xtvd>

<stations>
 <station id='12345'>
  <callSign>KPWPDT</callSign>
  <fccChannelNumber>53</fccChannelNumber>
 </station>
</stations>

<lineups>
 <lineup id='PC:11111' name='Local Broadcast Listings' location='Antenna' type='LocalBroadcast' postalCode='11111'>

 </lineup>
 <lineup id='XX11111:X' name='CableCompany' location='Somewhere' type='CableDigital' device='Digital' postalCode='11111'>

 </lineup>
</lineups>

<schedules>
 <schedule program='EP101010101010' station='12345' time='2009-02-29T03:00:00Z' duration='PT01H00M'/>
</schedules>

<programs>
 <program id='EP101010101010'>
  Some show
 </program>
</programs>

</xtvd>
```
So, in this fictitious example, one can see that while KPWPDT is assigned to FCC channel number 53 (which TiVo calls "frequency"), the OTA channel mapping is 13.1 and so a TiVo user finds it when tuning to 13-1 (and that same person could also have digital cable and find KPWPDT on channel 713, with an installed CableCARD, in this example).

Now, suppose Tribune has it wrong and the FCC channel number (frequency) is really suppose to be 7, due to the DTV transition having taken place for KPWPDT. People with KPWPDT in their OTA lineup will find that tuning to channel 13-1 no longer shows them any video. Any season pass recordings will be blank. If one goes into the TiVo "Channel List" screen and highlights the "13-1 ant KPWPDT" entry, the top line will have "digital frequency 53" and that is the problem that must be conveyed to TiVo support.

To complicate things, however, suppose one has performed a new channel scan after KPWPDT changed frequencies. Assuming one's OTA antenna situation is such that they can still pick up KPWPDT on the changed frequency - and this is not a trivial assumption, as some people will find that while they are able to tune in UHF channels just fine, VHF channels are harder to get a solid lock on - one finds a new _scanned-in_ channel that shows up as "13-1 ant *KPWPDT" in the TiVo "Channel List" screen and when highlighting that entry one sees "digital frequency 7" on the top line.

However, while this _scanned-in_ KPWPDT channel can be tuned to and viewed, there is no guide data associated with it, because TiVo does not have a mechanism in place for the end-user to associate that new _scanned-in_ channel with the Tribune/Zap2It station id (example) value of '12345' and without that association the programming entries in the guide data are worthless.

Once Tribune/Zap2It does fix the FCC channel number (frequency) value in their database and that change eventually ends up on one's TiVo, the last thing one must do is to go back to the "Channel List" screen and make sure to remove that scanned-in (*) channel and be sure the now fixed guide data channel entry is checkmarked.


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## markens (Apr 12, 2007)

cogx said:


> For those who are still not entirely sure what is going on with missing guide data for OTA broadcast channels, due to the partial DTV transition we are in the middle of, here is a fictitious example of Tribune/Zap2It guide data for fake channel KPWPDT:


Thanks, that is a very useful example to see how the data is actually correlated.

Can you take this one step further and show how an OTA translator to KPWPDT might be added in this scenario? Let's call it K19PWLD, signal on freq 19 with virt channel 13.1, and it shares all programming with KPWPDT. This info will really help me deal with two local stations.

Thanks again for all this info!


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

markens said:


> Can you take this one step further and show how an OTA translator to KPWPDT might be added in this scenario? Let's call it K19PWLD, signal on freq 19 with virt channel 13.1, and it shares all programming with KPWPDT.


That's a good question, up until you said they added in K13JR-DT to your lineup, I hadn't seen any evidence that Tribune/Zap2It was even adding in any of the DTV Translator stations.

Looking up the lineup for JACKSONVILLE, OR, the guide data shows:

callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber	postalCode	lineup	lineupType
K13JRDT	63143	13	1	13	97530	PC:97530	LocalBroadcast
KOBIDT	35431	5	1	5	97530	PC:97530	LocalBroadcast
KOBIDT2	35433	5	2	5	97530	PC:97530	LocalBroadcast

That is parsed from these XML elements:

```
<station id='63143'>
<callSign>K13JRDT</callSign>
<name>K13JRDT (K13JR-DT)</name>
<fccChannelNumber>13</fccChannelNumber>
<affiliate>NBC Low Power</affiliate>
</station>
<station id='35431'>
<callSign>KOBIDT</callSign>
<name>KOBIDT (KOBI-DT)</name>
<fccChannelNumber>5</fccChannelNumber>
<affiliate>NBC Affiliate</affiliate>
</station>
<station id='35433'>
<callSign>KOBIDT2</callSign>
<name>KOBIDT2 (KOBI-DT2)</name>
<fccChannelNumber>5</fccChannelNumber>
<affiliate>NBC Affiliate</affiliate>
</station>

<lineup id='PC:97530' name='Local Broadcast Listings' location='Antenna' type='LocalBroadcast' postalCode='97530'>

</lineup>
```
So, it would seem to me, they just need to change the channel attribute in your lineup's <map station='63143'... element to be channel='5'. However, I don't know if there is some technical reason I'm not aware of that causes problems when two entire different station callsigns share the same virtual channel mapping.

Reading this, I'm surprised that you can't tune to channel 13-1 on your TiVo and both see video and have guide data.


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## markens (Apr 12, 2007)

cogx said:


> Looking up the lineup for JACKSONVILLE, OR, the guide data shows:
> 
> callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber	postalCode	lineup	lineupType
> K13JRDT	63143	13	1	13	97530	PC:97530	LocalBroadcast
> ...


This is great -- thanks for using my real-world data. This is exactly as I would expect, given present behavior on the TiVo.

One unanswered question: how is <schedules> info handled for the translator? For each program, is there a <schedules> element for each station id, each referencing the same program id?



cogx said:


> So, it would seem to me, they just need to change the channel attribute in your lineup's element for every postalCode in a DMA (or cable service area, for cable)? If so, this adds some complexity to their update process! They need to have some back end method to map zipcodes to DMAs (and vice versa). If this is not well automated, it is another avenue for gremlins to appear in the data.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

markens said:


> One unanswered question: how is <schedules> info handled for the translator? For each program, is there a <schedules> element for each station id, each referencing the same program id?
> 
> As an aside, one other question about the XML data in your example: Is there a separate <lineup> element for every postalCode in a DMA (or cable service area, for cable)? If so, this adds some complexity to their update process! They need to have some back end method to map zipcodes to DMAs (and vice versa). If this is not well automated, it is another avenue for gremlins to appear in the data.


Yep, I see two separate schedule elements for the same program attribute value, one has 63143 as the station attribute value and the other has 35431.

Yes, they do have a unique lineup id for every possible zip code and provider (cable, satellite, broadcast) and each one will vary with respect to which station elements are included. However, I have to assume they are using a proper database design and thus they only change things like fccChannelNumber and the virtual channel mapping once and it ends up that way for all lineups. Last week I had a long standing issue with a virtual channel number that was wrong and they fixed it. I just checked two different zip codes across the state that get that channel in and they also have the fix in their lineups.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Yay! 

25-1 got corrected as of last night in my guide data. It now correctly points to a frequency of 25...

They didn't fix 25-2 though. It still points to 57. It really makes me wonder if anyone pays attention to this...I mean this is the kind of detail I would have picked up pretty fast, and thought to check on even if it wasn't in the notes they got from the Tivo CS person (which it should have been....)

That's just a weather station though, that doesn't have real shows AFAIK, so I don't know that I'm going to bother calling about it. I guess technically I should, but...

Not happy about all this at all. The two people I talked with last Thursday had no idea what they were talking about, or else lied, based on what the guy on Friday said, and given that it got fixed after that call...

I think "just" one to three more main stations are changing...assuming Tribune doesn't randomly change any others for no reason (again).


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

Wow, as of today they still haven't fixed KAZT (not surprised) but they deleted KAET-DT2 8.2 but not 8.1,8.3 or 8.4 and they added WZVIDT 43.1 a station according to the FCC in Virginia. This is mirrored on zap2it so its probably Tribune screwing up.


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## jgantert (Jan 24, 2008)

Wow, Tivo actually fixed WJLA 7-1, 7-2, and 7-3 in DC. Only took a week, which is on par with the estimate.

-John


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

jgantert said:


> Wow, Tivo actually fixed WJLA 7-1, 7-2, and 7-3 in DC. Only took a week, which is on par with the estimate.


One of the big unknowns is why there is such variance in how quickly and accurately changes are being made, once someone calls TiVo support. My TiVo support call to get a frequency change fixed was late in the evening on 2/18 and it was fixed almost exactly 48 hours later, despite having been told it could take up to 5 to 7 business days.

For others posting on this thread, it is taking weeks to get a fully accurate lineup, with some channels fixed after a few days, only to have it revert back a few days later, then a few days after that other channels are fixed, then a few days later those revert... I mean, it is quite baffling how some changes are done in 2 days and others seem nearly impossible for the folks involved to figure out.

Honestly, if I could volunteer to help Zap2It get their database 100% accurate, I would be glad to spend some free time without pay helping them out.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

cogx said:


> Honestly, if I could volunteer to help Zap2It get their database 100% accurate, I would be glad to spend some free time without pay helping them out.


I don't think Zap2It knows that they handle OTA channel frequency guide data.

I reported a problem with an OTA channel directly to Zap2It and they responded asking me what my cable company was thinking that it was somehow cable related.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

WLOS has been fixed with the latest guide update. Now I will wait to see what channel they screw up next.


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

I've never received a response from zap2it for anything. I called Tivo today to report the new discrepancies and the lady on the phone said my request for KAZT was pending a response from the station, I went ahead and called the station and left a message but I'm not expecting much since they don't answer emails. I wonder how interested stations are in fixing Tivo issues, they might not want to help someone DVR their signal.

The other interesting thing was the CSR said she could not file a new line up issue with Tribune because the old one was still pending so she added a note for the new problems to the existing report.


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## JFKLS1 (Feb 25, 2009)

My last call to TiVo support was 9 days ago and none of my reported stations without data have been fixed. I am still limping along with manual recordings, however it is getting really old after almost a month.....


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

cogx said:


> One of the big unknowns is why there is such variance in how quickly ... changes are being made, once someone calls TiVo support.


It might not have been your call that triggered the research to make the change. It may not have even been a tivo user that alerted tribune. For all the faults of tribune, that's one of their advantages. All of their customers notify them of changes, so the more people potentially impacted, the sooner one of them will notify them.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

morac said:


> I don't think Zap2It knows that they handle OTA channel frequency guide data.
> 
> I reported a problem with an OTA channel directly to Zap2It and they responded asking me what my cable company was thinking that it was somehow cable related.


I paid for a SchedulesDirect subscription a while back now and last week I reported a different OTA problem that I hadn't bothered TiVo support with, because it was for a sub-channel that really didn't matter, but it was still wrong. The guys that run SchedulesDirect reported it to Zap2It for me and it was indeed fixed within 3 business days. So, there _is_ a way to get Tribune/Zap2It to fix these issues, it just doesn't seem to be consistent.

When I e-mail Zap2It directly, I never get a reply back.


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

JFKLS1 said:


> My last call to TiVo support was 9 days ago and none of my reported stations without data have been fixed. I am still limping along with manual recordings, however it is getting really old after almost a month.....


I thought you and Puppy76 were in the same area. He's reporting almost all of his channels have been corrected. Which channels are wrong, and what frequency are they supposed to be on?


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## markens (Apr 12, 2007)

kb7oeb said:


> I went ahead and called the station and left a message but I'm not expecting much since they don't answer emails. I wonder how interested stations are in fixing Tivo issues, they might not want to help someone DVR their signal.


It may depend on the individual station, of course. But all three local stations I've been discussing these issues with (in Medford, OR) have been very interested in making it right. And at one of them, the general manager got involved.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

JFKLS1 said:


> My last call to TiVo support was 9 days ago and none of my reported stations without data have been fixed. I am still limping along with manual recordings, however it is getting really old after almost a month.....





Roderigo said:


> I thought you and Puppy76 were in the same area. He's reporting almost all of his channels have been corrected. Which channels are wrong, and what frequency are they supposed to be on?


Yeah, I'm curious too. I'd call them back for sure every week, as they claim that's how long it'll take, and from my experience, if it's not fixed within a few days, something's gone horribly wrong, so I _really_ wouldn't wait longer than the week they claim it can take.

For me, everything BUT 25-2 has been fixed. Since that's really just a weather station, and doesn't really need guide data, I'm not sure I want to bother with it (and I'm scared they may screw up 25-1, which I do need).

If I have to call them again about another station, I'll report it again I guess.

The other station I'm having issues with is 59, which has just disappeared for me...but I don't think it's broadcasting, or else all of a sudden has a much weaker signal. I don't think it's a guide data issue...it's just not there.

And yeah, this all got REALLY old, and I'm fully expecting something to get broken again before July


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## JFKLS1 (Feb 25, 2009)

I still have no guide for 

3.1 WCIADT
19.1 WHOIDT
25.1 WEEKDT
31.1 WMBDDT

I should not have to repeat guided setup if they fix it correct?


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

JFKLS1 said:


> I still have no guide for
> 
> 3.1 WCIADT
> 19.1 WHOIDT
> ...


Right, at least on mine it just fixed itself. Support had me repeating the channel portion of guided setup half the time I called, but it never did anything. You can repeat it though by going to the channel list and I think hitting enter. It just asks if your zip and source are the same, and then downloads guide data again.

Keep calling though, because for sure if it's not fixed after a week it's not going to be  And I'll cross my fingers that they don't break mine again while fixing yours 

I wonder how on Earth my data could be correct, and yours is wrong? Maybe somehow because we have different zip codes entered? You wouldn't think that would matter though 

What frequencies are yours on? 19.1 and 31.1 were always correct for me. I don't remember what they're on off hand...maybe 40 for 19, and 30 for 31? Something like that.

25.1 was broken, most recently it was on 57 when it should have been on 25.

I can _finally_ finish setting up my season passes!


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## aldiesel (Apr 12, 2004)

I called Tivo on Friday March 13 and opened a problem ticket with them concerning 10-1 thru 10-3 and 12-1 thru 12-3 in Philadelphia, PA DMA. I was told 5 business days to correct the problem. I called back today and now I am told 7 business days and to wait until March 24. That will be 12 days without guide data. I am a little upset seeing that we pay for the guide data via monthly or life time fees. I do not see why it would take so long to correct this issue.


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## GBL (Apr 20, 2000)

olsonm3915 said:


> After rebooting, my Tivo HD now has all the 2.1 through 2.4 subchannels mapped correctly. I would do one more forced connection and then reboot your box.
> 
> I just got off the phone with Tivo support, I told them that their KARE channel information was wrong. This is what I am currently seeing right now on my Channel List:
> 
> ...


As of last night it's been fixed!


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## chadfetter (Mar 28, 2004)

Did you ever get this fixed? I just called Tivo on it today.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

aldiesel said:


> I called Tivo on Friday March 13 and opened a problem ticket with them concerning 10-1 thru 10-3 and 12-1 thru 12-3 in Philadelphia, PA DMA. I was told 5 business days to correct the problem. I called back today and now I am told 7 business days and to wait until March 24. That will be 12 days without guide data. I am a little upset seeing that we pay for the guide data via monthly or life time fees. I do not see why it would take so long to correct this issue.


Based on what happened to me, I'm betting they lied to you. In my case, they (I guess Tribune?) had actually already closed the ticket a week prior to my call, because "there was no problem with the guide data". They told me "it'll be fixed tomorrow for sure!" When it wasn't and I called back, I got someone who told me it had been closed a week prior.

This whole system is...not good.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

aldiesel said:


> I called Tivo on Friday March 13 and opened a problem ticket with them concerning 10-1 thru 10-3 and 12-1 thru 12-3 in Philadelphia, PA DMA. I was told 5 business days to correct the problem. I called back today and now I am told 7 business days and to wait until March 24. That will be 12 days without guide data. I am a little upset seeing that we pay for the guide data via monthly or life time fees. I do not see why it would take so long to correct this issue.


Are these your channels?

callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber	postalCode	lineup
WCAUDT	19613	10	1	67	19134	PC:19134
WCAUDT2	45807	10	2	67	19134	PC:19134
WCAUDT3	62804	10	3	67	19134	PC:19134
WHYYDT	24114	12	1	50	19134	PC:19134
WHYYDT2	45913	12	2	50	19134	PC:19134
WHYYDT3	51000	12	3	50	19134	PC:19134

According to RabbitEars.info, that all looks correct, and I my cursory Google search didn't find that either has moved to post-analog mode yet. Is this not correct?


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Hmm...that Rabbitears.info site lists 59.1 for me as 39.1 instead...I wonder if that's why I can't get it anymore


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

JFKLS1 said:


> I still have no guide for
> 
> 3.1 WCIADT
> 19.1 WHOIDT
> ...


Here's what I found this morning:

callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber
WCIADT	30911	3	1	48
WCIADT2	55826	3	2	48
WHOIDT	43288	19	1	40
WHOIDT2	52639	19	2	40
WEEKDT	34803	25	1	25
WEEKDT2	48564	25	2	25
WMBDDT	42547	31	1	30

That not right?


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

Puppy76 said:


> Hmm...that Rabbitears.info site lists 59.1 for me as 39.1 instead...I wonder if that's why I can't get it anymore


I did a search for WAOE-DT and I find references to both 39.1 and 59.1, on various forum sites, which is odd. Does your TiVo tune it in at 39-1?


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## aldiesel (Apr 12, 2004)

cogx said:


> Are these your channels?
> 
> callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber	postalCode	lineup
> WCAUDT	19613	10	1	67	19134	PC:19134
> ...


Yes that is it but Tivo thinks WCAU is on frequency 34 and WHYY is on 55. Hence I have no signal with good guide data. If I scan for channels, I can then get a picture on the correct frequency but no guide data.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

aldiesel said:


> Yes that is it but Tivo thinks WCAU is on frequency 34 and WHYY is on 55. Hence I have no signal with good guide data. If I scan for channels, I can then get a picture on the correct frequency but no guide data.


This data I pasted there is from this morning, so it would indicate to me that Tribune/Zap2It has correct now, so you just have to get it downloaded to your TiVo. If you haven't done a manual network connection to TiVo yet this morning, try it. If it still doesn't correct those channels, try again late tonight.


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## aldiesel (Apr 12, 2004)

cogx said:


> This data I pasted there is from this morning, so it would indicate to me that Tribune/Zap2It has correct now, so you just have to get it downloaded to your TiVo. If you haven't done a manual network connection to TiVo yet this morning, try it. If it still doesn't correct those channels, try again late tonight.


Had the box call into TIVO and still thinks they are the wrong frequency.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

aldiesel said:


> Had the box call into TIVO and still thinks they are the wrong frequency.


Note the changes may not take effect immediately after your force a connection. It could take 30-40 minutes.


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## divot (Apr 3, 2002)

I called TiVo support on the afternoon of March 13th to report no guide data for WTHR 13.1, 13.2, and 13.3 for two days. Apparently they decided to move their digital signal from 13 to 46. I was told the problem should be corrected within 5 business days. It was fixed on the 17th which was really less than 3 business days and I am a happy guy.


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## a68oliver (Jul 15, 2000)

WTHR 13 never has had their digital signal on channel 13 and won't move off of 46 until June 12. The problem was that Tribune prematurely moved them from 46 to 13.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

bkdtv said:


> Note the changes may not take effect immediately after your force a connection. It could take 30-40 minutes.


Also once Tribune makes the changes, it can take a day for the changes to make their way over to the TiVo system.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

Here we go, now there is a list of stations that are going to kill off analog _before_ 6/12/09. Here is the list of stations waiting until 6/12/09.

http://www.slashgear.com/fcc-reveals-dtv-early-analog-switch-off-stations-1938205/


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## ccrider2 (Nov 1, 2007)

divot said:


> I called TiVo support on the afternoon of March 13th to report no guide data for WTHR 13.1, 13.2, and 13.3 for two days. Apparently they decided to move their digital signal from 13 to 46. I was told the problem should be corrected within 5 business days. It was fixed on the 17th which was really less than 3 business days and I am a happy guy.


They've always been on RF46, Tribune thought they went to RF13, as they were supposed to do in February.

I wonder if this is all a political thing? Obama (DEM) puts a hold on the switch From February To June, sooo, Tribune (GOP) said we'll fix him.  and willy-nilly sporadically starts changing channels a few at a time.

I find it hard to believe that this could be so difficult.... It almost seems to be intentional.


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## JFKLS1 (Feb 25, 2009)

cogx said:


> Here's what I found this morning:
> 
> callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber
> WCIADT	30911	3	1	48
> ...


Yes, it is all correct. These frequencies are what my TiVos both show and what I reported to support when I called 10 days ago but no guide yet. I really don't want to break any of my other channels that I actually do have a guide for though.....


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

JFKLS1 said:


> Yes, it is all correct. These frequencies are what my TiVos both show and what I reported to support when I called 10 days ago but no guide yet. I really don't want to break any of my other channels that I actually do have a guide for though.....


So, under "Messages & Settings - Settings - Channels - Channel List" screen, you have those call signs at the proper virtual channel numbers and when highlighted they all show the proper frequencies and they are not scanned-in channels with the asterisk * next to them? You can tune to those channels and get video, but the guide data is still missing? Is that correct?


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

JFKLS1 said:


> Yes, it is all correct. These frequencies are what my TiVos both show and what I reported to support when I called 10 days ago but no guide yet. I really don't want to break any of my other channels that I actually do have a guide for though.....


Hmm. I'd probably repeat Guided Setup, then. It sounds like something more unusual than just the frequencies moving around. And, if a simple repeat guided setup doesn't fix it, then I'd repeat guided setup for a drastically different area to clear things out, and then go back to your correct zip code.

Keep us informed.


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## JFKLS1 (Feb 25, 2009)

cogx said:


> So, under "Messages & Settings - Settings - Channels - Channel List" screen, you have those call signs at the proper virtual channel numbers and when highlighted they all show the proper frequencies and they are not scanned-in channels with the asterisk * next to them? You can tune to those channels and get video, but the guide data is still missing? Is that correct?


Actually they are scanned in channels with an * on them. If I repeat setup the TiVos do not detect all the channels I receive unless I do a channel scan. Upon scan they are all there but no guide, and the virtual channel #'s are correct. Is there any way to get * off the channels?


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

JFKLS1 said:


> Actually they are scanned in channels with an * on them. If I repeat setup the TiVos do not detect all the channels I receive unless I do a channel scan. Upon scan they are all there but no guide, and the virtual channel #'s are correct. Is there any way to get * off the channels?


The * means it's a scanned channel that doesn't match the guide data. The only way to get rid of the * is to have the broadcast channel match the tivo guide data.

What zip code are you using? Maybe they don't have the guide data listed on the right zip. What frequency is the tivo saying for the version of these channels that do have guide data?


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## JFKLS1 (Feb 25, 2009)

Ok, right now i'm using 62702 for my Zip. I just repeated guided setup and get the same thing for 3.1 WCIA-DT. The others, 19.1 WHOI-DT, 25.1 WEEK-DT and 31.1 WMBD-DT do not even show up so i'm now doing a manual channel scan so they will, but I know when it's done here in a few minutes the result will be the same. Maybe do it again and change Zip? Even if I do it won't show all channels available unless I force a scan.


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## JFKLS1 (Feb 25, 2009)

I just completed a forced scan and all channels are there now and the guide is exactly the same. 

3.1 wciadt cbs no data freq 48
17.1 wanddt nbc good freq 18
19.1 whoidt abc no data freq 40
20.1 wicsdt abc good freq 42
23.1 wbuidt wb good freq 22
25.1 weekdt nbc no data freq 25
31.1 wmbddt cbs no data freq 30
43.1 wyzzdt fox good freq 28
55.1 wrspdt fox good freq 44

This is my channel line up and guide info. After setup and channel scan it remained the same. There are no duplicate channels in the channel editor to see previous frequencies. I have the only version of the channels in the list selected, however the no data channels do have the * on them. All channels do come in perfectly.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

JFKLS1 said:


> Ok, right now i'm using 62702 for my Zip. I just repeated guided setup and get the same thing for 3.1 WCIA-DT. The others, 19.1 WHOI-DT, 25.1 WEEK-DT and 31.1 WMBD-DT do not even show up so i'm now doing a manual channel scan so they will, but I know when it's done here in a few minutes the result will be the same. Maybe do it again and change Zip? Even if I do it won't show all channels available unless I force a scan.


Here's what I show a Tribune/Zap2It lineup looks like for 62702:

callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber	postalCode	lineup
WANDDT	30925	17	1	18	62702	PC:62702
WANDDT2	45706	17	2	18	62702	PC:62702
WBUIDT	34716	23	1	22	62702	PC:62702
WBUIDT2	60598	23	2	22	62702	PC:62702
WCFNDT	30910	49	1	53	62702	PC:62702
WCFNDT2	55830	49	2	53	62702	PC:62702
WICSDT	35228	20	1	42	62702	PC:62702
WILLDT	48305	12	1	9	62702	PC:62702
WILLDT2	48306	12	2	9	62702	PC:62702
WILLDT3	54141	12	3	9	62702	PC:62702
WRSPDT	42575	55	1	44	62702	PC:62702
WSECDT	43758	14	1	15	62702	PC:62702
WSECDT2	43879	14	2	15	62702	PC:62702
WSECDT3	50799	14	3	15	62702	PC:62702


Scanned-in channels (* in front of the call sign, on the Channel List screen) will never have guide data, so they are pretty much only useful insofar as at least you can say for certain that your antenna can actual tune that particular channel frequency in. So, it doesn't look like Tribune thinks you should even be able to get those other channels in based on your zip?


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## JFKLS1 (Feb 25, 2009)

So you think that they are saying no guide data because I shouldn't be able to receive them? I have been getting these channels for almost 3 years now with no guide problems at all until the "switch" a few weeks ago. I will change my Zip and try again I guess. I have a great roof antennae and live between 2 markets and have always got both with no problems before. Oh well, I will try again and post later after a Zip change on guided setup.


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

JFKLS1 said:


> Ok, right now i'm using 62702 for my Zip. I just repeated guided setup and get the same thing for 3.1 WCIA-DT. The others, 19.1 WHOI-DT, 25.1 WEEK-DT and 31.1 WMBD-DT do not even show up so i'm now doing a manual channel scan so they will, but I know when it's done here in a few minutes the result will be the same. Maybe do it again and change Zip? Even if I do it won't show all channels available unless I force a scan.


Ah - the problem is you're not asking tivo for the right thing! You're asking them to change frequencies, when you should be telling them you're missing channels. Are you just using antenna? If so, I'd use Zap2It, and see if there are any zip codes that have all the channels you can receive.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

JFKLS1 said:


> So you think that they are saying no guide data because I shouldn't be able to receive them? I have been getting these channels for almost 3 years now with no guide problems at all until the "switch" a few weeks ago. I will change my Zip and try again I guess. I have a great roof antennae and live between 2 markets and have always got both with no problems before. Oh well, I will try again and post later after a Zip change on guided setup.


Yep, the problem is that Tribune doesn't think that if your zip code is 62702 that you should get those other channels.

I also did a lookup on www.antennaweb.org with zipcode 62702 and I'm not seeing those other channels listed either, so you must really be on the edge of getting those channels in to where only a few people like you are able to?


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## JFKLS1 (Feb 25, 2009)

OK, I really feel like a total doof. I repeated guided setup with 61761 as my Zip(which is actually the 1 I am in) and presto, all channels are now there with no * on them. The guide is now totally filled with proper info. I wonder though why it has worked for so long up to the switch date before having problems? Thanks guys for the help..cogx, if it weren't for your comment about the * meaning I should not receive the channel I probably would not have gotten it right. Roderigo, you were right too. I totally did not think that changing the Zipcode would actually affect the guide. It has always worked so I did not think that had anything to do with it. I was so happy to see it I actually jumped up and down and my wife said WTH are you doin?


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

Good deal! Now, all you have to worry about is WHOI-DT when they switch frequencies to 19 on 6/12/09, hoping Tribune gets it changed in their database soon thereafter.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

cogx said:


> callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber	postalCode	lineup
> WCAUDT	19613	10	1	67	19134	PC:19134
> WCAUDT2	45807	10	2	67	19134	PC:19134
> WCAUDT3	62804	10	3	67	19134	PC:19134
> ...


These are now correct on my TiVo.


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

JFKLS1 said:


> OK, I really feel like a total doof. I repeated guided setup with 61761 as my Zip(which is actually the 1 I am in) and presto, all channels are now there with no * on them.


Glad we were able to help out. Now go watch (and record) some TV!

And, again (not to pick on you, but using this as an example) this shows why Tivo/Tribune needs to independently research the reports coming in from customers. Even smart customers can sometimes be "total doofs."


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## TC123 (Jan 12, 2009)

aldiesel said:


> I called Tivo on Friday March 13 and opened a problem ticket with them concerning 10-1 thru 10-3 and 12-1 thru 12-3 in Philadelphia, PA DMA. I was told 5 business days to correct the problem. I called back today and now I am told 7 business days and to wait until March 24. That will be 12 days without guide data. I am a little upset seeing that we pay for the guide data via monthly or life time fees. I do not see why it would take so long to correct this issue.


I just did a TiVo network update connection and now both channels 10 and 12 seem to be correct. Thanks for contacting TiVo about this, as the wrong channels and missing guide problem has been bugging my wife and I at our nearby Philly location as well.


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## aldiesel (Apr 12, 2004)

TC123 said:


> I just did a TiVo network update connection and now both channels 10 and 12 seem to be correct. Thanks for contacting TiVo about this, as the wrong channels and missing guide problem has been bugging my wife and I at our nearby Philly location as well.


Your welcome and I yes they are correct on my box also.


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## JimPa (Oct 25, 2006)

I'm getting a little confused about this whole channel thing.

I have called TIVO 5 times to correct a problem with WCOV-DT transmitting on frequency 20 and TIVO/Tribune showing it as frequency 16. On the program guide, I get two versions of 20-1. The one with the program information won't tune the channel, the one that says to be announced, tunes the channel, but has no program information so program an advanced recording is a no go. Actually, I wind up with recording of a blank screen via the season pass function.

In my 4th phone call, it became obvious that they (maybe Tribune) wasn't contacting the station as they claim they are doing or if they are, they're not talking to the right person.

I called the station spoke with the chief engineer and he said that he hasn't spoken to anyone with either Tivo or Tribune about what frequency they were broadcasting on. I got his name and phone number and passed it along to TIVO on my 5th phone call which is when I discovered that they once again had closed the service ticket supposable after they had confirmed that 16 was the right number.

I suggested to the tech guy at TIVOto let me send photos to them showing the antenna strength screen where it clearly shows what frequencies are being broadcast with 16 being a blank screen and 20 having content and a pretty good signal. He couldn't handle that but put that information on the service ticket for someone else to followup on.

Also, on my 4th call, I asked for a month credit for not having a correct program guide where I couldn't record much. Originally 3 of our 4 channels were screwed up.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

JimPa said:


> I have called TIVO 5 times to correct a problem with WCOV-DT transmitting on frequency 20 and TIVO/Tribune showing it as frequency 16.


Bummer. I wonder why this particular station is so difficult for them to get correct. It has been 19 full business days since WCOV-DT changed frequencies.

Unfortunately, as of this morning, Tribune/Zap2It still show it wrong:

callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber
WCOVDT	36116	20	1	16
WCOVDT2	50687	20	2	16


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

cogx said:


> Good deal! Now, all you have to worry about is WHOI-DT when they switch frequencies to 19 on 6/12/09, hoping Tribune gets it changed in their database soon thereafter.


*sigh* The only solace I have is ABC probably won't be broadcasting anything I care about in June, so I don't care that it'll take 2 months to fix.

I guess I'm going to call about 25.2 at the same time. They didn't fix that, but it's just a weather channel, so I don't really care much (I mean its guide data is probably about worthless anyway, because it's probably always "weather").



Roderigo said:


> Glad we were able to help out. Now go watch (and record) some TV!
> 
> And, again (not to pick on you, but using this as an example) this shows why Tivo/Tribune needs to independently research the reports coming in from customers. Even smart customers can sometimes be "total doofs."


They still need a system to temporarily fix this though. It can be wiped when guide data is updated-or handled a hundred other ways.


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## JFKLS1 (Feb 25, 2009)

Heh, I was rather flaky about the whole thing but in my defense, I did give the TiVo tech accurate information about the frequency changes and they fixed it properly. The fact that I had the wrong zipcode on my end was my fault but it did work for 2 1/2 years properly. Hopefully WHOI won't be a problem in June but if it is I imagine it will be a short lived one.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Aside from WCOV, are there any ABC/CBS/FOX/NBC/PBS affiliates that are still mapped to the wrong frequency?


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

bkdtv said:


> Aside from WCOV, are there any ABC/CBS/FOX/NBC/PBS affiliates that are still mapped to the wrong frequency?


You mean anywhere? My NBC substation isn't mapped right (though thankfully my main one is now).


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

For some reason today they added back in 3 analog channels that are digital only now without fixing the broken stations.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

kb7oeb said:


> For some reason today they added back in 3 analog channels that are digital only now without fixing the broken stations.


That was terribly useful of them :down:


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

I just got 7 analog channels added back to my lineup even though none of them are broadcasting. It's good to see Tribune is on the ball and fixing the real issues.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Puppy76 said:


> You mean anywhere? My NBC substation isn't mapped right (though thankfully my main one is now).


Yes, anywhere.

As far as I can tell from this thread, WCOV is the only ABC/CBS/FOX/NBC/PBS affiliate whose _primary digital feed_ isn't mapped correctly as of March 20.

If that isn't correct, please post.


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## JimPa (Oct 25, 2006)

bkdtv,

Well there was some action on TIVO adding WCOV today.

They added the analog which stopped broadcasting in February.

...and I bet they'll show the service ticket is now closed. 

Here goes call 6. I may be setting a new record.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Here's something fishy that happened on my THD last night. Channels 20 KOFY, 36 KICU, 38 KCNS, analog channels were previously deleted since they stopped broadcasting analog on 2/17, then last night these channels were Re-Added to my channel list and with guide data.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Yep, mine got added back in too. BUT they fixed 25-2! So now ALL my stations are correct! Until the next random change...

Remember, you can easily uncheck stations you don't really get..hard part is adding in ones you do


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

ThAbtO said:


> Here's something fishy that happened on my THD last night. Channels 20 KOFY, 36 KICU, 38 KCNS, analog channels were previously deleted since they stopped broadcasting analog on 2/17, then last night these channels were Re-Added to my channel list and with guide data.


As noted earlier, this seems to have happened to everyone about 2 days ago.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Tribune dropped many analogs they weren't supposed to....so it appears they just rolled back everything, including analogs that are already shutoff.

In the process, they did appear to fix all of the digital ABC/CBS/FOX/NBC networks, save for one.

Now Tribune needs to remove the appropriate analogs without changing the digital broadcast frequencies. I guess we'll find out soon whether they are capable of doing that.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

bkdtv said:


> Tribune dropped many analogs they weren't supposed to....so it appears they just rolled back everything, including analogs that are already shutoff.
> 
> In the process, they did appear to fix all of the digital ABC/CBS/FOX/NBC networks, save for one.
> 
> Now Tribune needs to remove the appropriate analogs without changing the digital broadcast frequencies. I guess we'll find out soon whether they are capable of doing that.


Perhaps they finally figured out that they needed a whole new plan, a whole new approach, because the apparently haphazard way they've been dealing with these broadcast channels changes since 2/17 simply got away from them. Maybe this rollback is the start of a new systematic way for Tribune/Zap2It to go channel-by-channel, doing their own independent research, instead of simply waiting for one or more complaints to come at them from various vectors? 
Hey, every once and a while a person is entitled to wishful thinking, right?


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## markens (Apr 12, 2007)

Update on translator K13JRDT: A lineup change hit my TiVo tonight (along with all the reappearing analog channels) which moved virtual channel from 13-1 to 5-1 for freq 13. And everything works great now: picture _and_ program guide for the translator!

This is now an existence proof that DTV translators can be successfully added to a linup, sharing the same virtual channel number(s) with their associated high power station. zap2it.com also shows the corrected data.

The KOBI engineer I've been working with on this was instrumental in getting the change through. He understood the issues and worked the system to get the update done. Kudos definitely go to him.

Now to work on getting the other translator added, now that I know for sure it's possible.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

cogx said:


> I did a search for WAOE-DT and I find references to both 39.1 and 59.1, on various forum sites, which is odd. Does your TiVo tune it in at 39-1?


No it doesn't. When I do the signal strength test on my Tivo, it locks on to something fairly strongly on 59-1, but it's just a blank black screen.

Meanwhile, on a TV in another room with a converter box, it can get 59-1, but not 19-1, which the Tivo gets.

They're on I think 39 and 40 respectively, so I wonder if maybe one signal is somehow interfering with the other somehow?

And the 39/59 thing is weird, because I've had times on the converter box where it can't tune to it on 59-1, it only recieves it on 39-1, though that seems to have gotten straightened out.

(I also am confused by a lot of other issues with all this-like why does Handbrake have trouble with video from two of my stations? 19-1 and 19-2. The former won't convert to something playable on my iPod, the latter converts, but sort of plays in double speed. And why does the bitrate on 47-1 seem to be as high as any other channel, but it shouldn't be because it's split 3 ways, and doesn't look as good...yet the file size on the Tivo is as big as any other channel, which I presume means the bit rate is just as high..this is all so confusing!)


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

Puppy76 said:


> No it doesn't. When I do the signal strength test on my Tivo, it locks on to something fairly strongly on 59-1, but it's just a blank black screen.
> 
> Meanwhile, on a TV in another room with a converter box, it can get 59-1, but not 19-1, which the Tivo gets.
> 
> ...


I would say that Tribune needs to change the channel mapping for WAOEDT to be channel 39.1, instead of 59.1 as they have it now.

callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber
WAOEDT	35051	59	1	39


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

cogx said:


> I would say that Tribune needs to change the channel mapping for WAOEDT to be channel 39.1, instead of 59.1 as they have it now.
> 
> callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber
> WAOEDT	35051	59	1	39


Should my Tivo be able to tune to it right now on 39.1? And what about my digital converter box that can tune to it on 59.1?

I've tried doing a manual channel scan, but it doesn't pick up 39.1...so I'm not sure what's going on :-/


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

Puppy76 said:


> Should my Tivo be able to tune to it right now on 39.1? And what about my digital converter box that can tune to it on 59.1?
> 
> I've tried doing a manual channel scan, but it doesn't pick up 39.1...so I'm not sure what's going on :-/


Since you are using your converter box as sort of a baseline, I would suggest wiping out any prior channel mapping from the unit. Delete all the channels and then I read somewhere to disconnect the antenna from it and do a new channel scan, which I guess on some converter boxes does some trick to wipe out all of the channel data. Then do a brand new scan with the antenna hooked up. Does it still find it on 59.1 or only on 39.1?

In any case, as for the TiVo, this sounds like the same kind of problem markens was having with K13JRDT, where even though Tribune had the fccChannelNumber correct, TiVo still couldn't tune it in, until they also changed the channel mapping to be 5.1 instead of 13.1 like they had it.


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## prozach (Mar 6, 2008)

Been calling TiVO weekly and the issue is not yet resolved. Well, it's partly resolved. The 7-1, 7-2 and 7-3 channels (PBS) are all fine, but 6-1, 6-2 and 6-3 (KHQ) broadcast video on Freq 15 yet the guide info is only available on Freq 7. 

This is NBC, so I'm basically not watching much NBC these days.

My first call to TiVO was was on 2/20/09 most recent call on 3/20/09.

I have 2 case numbers: 10960911 & 11019735 (the original was apparently closed necessitating them open the 2nd case number).

These are all broadcast in the Spokane, WA, area.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

prozach said:


> Been calling TiVO weekly and the issue is not yet resolved. Well, it's partly resolved. The 7-1, 7-2 and 7-3 channels (PBS) are all fine, but 6-1, 6-2 and 6-3 (KHQ) broadcast video on Freq 15 yet the guide info is only available on Freq 7.
> 
> This is NBC, so I'm basically not watching much NBC these days.
> 
> ...


Tribune/Zap2It has this info for KHQDT:

callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber
KHQDT	33819	6	1	7
KHQDT2	33843	6	2	7
KHQDT3	62798	6	3	7


It looks like Tribune jumped the gun on changing the fccChannelNumber (frequency) for KHQDT to 7. If that linked FCC application is correct (and I'm reading it correctly), KHQ won't be making that change until mid-August.


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## prozach (Mar 6, 2008)

What's interesting is KHQ shut down their analog broadcast with the original digital transition date. They used to broadcast on freq 7 but they switched to freq 15 with the transition. 

I do see what you're saying, it looks like they will change to freq 7 in August.

As an aside, antennaweb shows that they are broadcasting on freq 15.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

cogx said:


> Since you are using your converter box as sort of a baseline, I would suggest wiping out any prior channel mapping from the unit. Delete all the channels and then I read somewhere to disconnect the antenna from it and do a new channel scan, which I guess on some converter boxes does some trick to wipe out all of the channel data. Then do a brand new scan with the antenna hooked up. Does it still find it on 59.1 or only on 39.1?
> 
> In any case, as for the TiVo, this sounds like the same kind of problem markens was having with K13JRDT, where even though Tribune had the fccChannelNumber correct, TiVo still couldn't tune it in, until they also changed the channel mapping to be 5.1 instead of 13.1 like they had it.


Thanks for the suggestion! I finally had a chance to experiment with the converter box. Wiped it, scanned without the antenna, scanned again with it. Only it still finds 59.1.

And the Tivo HD does detect signal on 59.1-it's lowish, like dips into the 70s, but it should still show SOMETHING even if it's breaking up, but it's just like there's nothing there.


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## prozach (Mar 6, 2008)

I just sent an email to a general manager Tribune, hopefully it helps get this resolved.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

Puppy76 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion! I finally had a chance to experiment with the converter box. Wiped it, scanned without the antenna, scanned again with it. Only it still finds 59.1.
> 
> And the Tivo HD does detect signal on 59.1-it's lowish, like dips into the 70s, but it should still show SOMETHING even if it's breaking up, but it's just like there's nothing there.


It sure sounds like a PSIP problem. Unfortunately, the guys over at RabbitEars.info don't have any TSReader output for WAOE-DT, even though they do say the virtual channel number should be 39-1 and not 59-1 and my observations over the past few weeks is that site is about as accurate as they come for this stuff. I don't know what else it could be other than WAOE-DT needs to be mapped to 39-1 in the guide data and not 59-1, but maybe you should post in the AVSForum thread for your area, someone there might be able to give you the definitive answer (unless you happen to have a PC with an ATSC tuner card and can run TSReader Lite yourself?)


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## JimPa (Oct 25, 2006)

Roderigo said:


> Hmm. I'd probably repeat Guided Setup, then. It sounds like something more unusual than just the frequencies moving around. And, if a simple repeat guided setup doesn't fix it, then I'd repeat guided setup for a drastically different area to clear things out, and then go back to your correct zip code.
> 
> Keep us informed.


Hey, I'm not the guy that you were responding to, but I tried the "change zip code" trick and it seems to have worked.

Prior to doing it, I forced a Tivo connection and waited a while to see if they had corrected which channel goes to which frequency. It was still mucked up.

I went through "Guided Setup" and changed the zip code to another one that should be receiving these same channels. It worked.

I'm halfway tempted to change the zip code back to the correct one but for now, I just want to enjoy TV.

Thanks for the tip!!!


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

cogx said:


> It sure sounds like a PSIP problem. Unfortunately, the guys over at RabbitEars.info don't have any TSReader output for WAOE-DT, even though they do say the virtual channel number should be 39-1 and not 59-1 and my observations over the past few weeks is that site is about as accurate as they come for this stuff. I don't know what else it could be other than WAOE-DT needs to be mapped to 39-1 in the guide data and not 59-1, but maybe you should post in the AVSForum thread for your area, someone there might be able to give you the definitive answer (unless you happen to have a PC with an ATSC tuner card and can run TSReader Lite yourself?)


Thanks. Well, I reposted in there. I have no clue what to do about it  When I see that it's broadcasting from the same location as a station that comes in great, it's got to be something else weird going on (and my HDTV and converter box both tune to it fine)


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

Puppy76 said:


> Thanks. Well, I reposted in there. I have no clue what to do about it  When I see that it's broadcasting from the same location as a station that comes in great, it's got to be something else weird going on (and my HDTV and converter box both tune to it fine)


Maybe just to try something else, what about doing the Guided Setup with a different zip code in your area, like JimPa did - maybe it will confuse the little gremlins inside your TiVo?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

cogx said:


> Maybe just to try something else, what about doing the Guided Setup with a different zip code in your area, like JimPa did - maybe it will confuse the little gremlins inside your TiVo?


Frequency updates do not require you to re-do guided setup. Guided setup just causes the re-indexing of the lineup to occur faster. Forcing a connection will work but the changes will not happen immediately. I would definitely try a restart and force a connection before running guided setup (since it isn't necessary).


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## prozach (Mar 6, 2008)

So, life is good here, it appears that Tribune/TiVO has corrected their guide information and I have no more "To Be Announced" items in my guide info.


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## JimPa (Oct 25, 2006)

rainwater said:


> Frequency updates do not require you to re-do guided setup. Guided setup just causes the re-indexing of the lineup to occur faster. Forcing a connection will work but the changes will not happen immediately. I would definitely try a restart and force a connection before running guided setup (since it isn't necessary).


Not so sure about that rainwater.

Reruning Guided setup using a different zip code worked for me.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

And this is a weird issue...like maybe the PSIP data is wrong, or something. There's guide data for the channel, I get the channel, the Tivo shows as receiving something on that frequency...but won't actually display it (unlike ever other ATSC tuner I own).


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

JimPa said:


> Not so sure about that rainwater.
> 
> Reruning Guided setup using a different zip code worked for me.


That's different. That's you changing your zip code.

If you don't change your zip code, you don't need to repeat guided setup. The updates will appear automatically.

Having said that, if you know someone else's nearby zip code is working and yours is not, well then change it! You can change it back later once everything calms down.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

JimPa said:


> Not so sure about that rainwater.
> 
> Reruning Guided setup using a different zip code worked for me.


Frequencies for OTA stations are global. They do not vary from zip code to zip code. While it is true that running guided setup can cause it to update quicker than waiting on the frequency change to show up with a normal update, it isn't required.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

rainwater said:


> Frequencies for OTA stations are global. They do not vary from zip code to zip code. While it is true that running guided setup can cause it to update quicker than waiting on the frequency change to show up with a normal update, it isn't required.


Correct, but that's not the problem with WAOE-DT. Tribune has the correct fccChannelNumber value of 39. It is a channel mapping problem of some sort with that station. Apparently, non-TiVo ATSC tuners (TV sets, digital converter boxes) will tune to WAOE-DT by punching either 39.1 or 59.1.
Tribune has the channel mapping as 59.1, but it isn't working for Puppy76.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

cogx said:


> Correct, but that's not the problem with WAOE-DT. Tribune has the correct fccChannelNumber value of 39. It is a channel mapping problem of some sort with that station. Apparently, non-TiVo ATSC tuners (TV sets, digital converter boxes) will tune to WAOE-DT by punching either 39.1 or 59.1.
> Tribune has the channel mapping as 59.1, but it isn't working for Puppy76.


Yeah, but how is running guided setup going to fix that? AFAIK, it makes no difference.


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

Got something positive today, KAZT-CD 7.1 and 7.2 were added today. 7.1 is correct but 7.2 has gibberish for listings, I did a search of one of the program names and I think its listings for a Russian channel. 7.2 is a RTN feed, I wanted it more than 7.1 but its a step in the right direction. 7.2 for KAZT-DT is still there and correct so hopefully one final call to Tivo will straighten it out.

CD is the digital version of CA Class A stations, so Tivo carries them too in addition to LP.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

rainwater said:


> Yeah, but how is running guided setup going to fix that? AFAIK, it makes no difference.


I'm not a TiVo hardware hacker, so I don't have any firsthand knowledge of the internal data structures the TiVo software uses, as to what stays persistent and what doesn't. I was just thinking, couldn't hurt for Puppy76 to try it, while we wait for someone in the area to get the PSIP data for WAOE-DT.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

kb7oeb said:


> Got something positive today, KAZT-CD 7.1 and 7.2 were added today. 7.1 is correct but 7.2 has gibberish for listings, I did a search of one of the program names and I think its listings for a Russian channel. 7.2 is a RTN feed, I wanted it more than 7.1 but its a step in the right direction. 7.2 for KAZT-DT is still there and correct so hopefully one final call to Tivo will straighten it out.
> 
> CD is the digital version of CA Class A stations, so Tivo carries them too in addition to LP.


Interesting, I see what you mean (click on the 63150 link):

callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber
KAZTCD	63147	7	1	27
KAZTCD2	63150 7	2	27
KAZTDT	32426	7	1	25
KAZTDT2	61548 7	2	25


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

cogx said:


> I'm not a TiVo hardware hacker, so I don't have any firsthand knowledge of the internal data structures the TiVo software uses, as to what stays persistent and what doesn't. I was just thinking, couldn't hurt for Puppy76 to try it, while we wait for someone in the area to get the PSIP data for WAOE-DT.


I just don't see the need to make people waste their time when running guided setup is obviously not going to fix the issue. It is clearly something wrong with the way the TiVo is processing the PSIP data (or the way station is broadcasting it which is more likely).


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

Looks they confused RTN Retro TV Network for RTN Russian TV Network

http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tvlist...d&stnNum=18424&channel=615&fromTimeInMillis=0

Tivo CSR was amusing, he thought it was funny and said he couldn't read Russian but maybe if it was in Klingon.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

Puppy76 said:


> And this is a weird issue...like maybe the PSIP data is wrong, or something. There's guide data for the channel, I get the channel, the Tivo shows as receiving something on that frequency...but won't actually display it (unlike ever other ATSC tuner I own).


I see someone got TSReader output yesterday, for channels in the Peoria, IL area, and Trip has it up on RabbitEars.info.

WAOE does indeed map to 59.1. That's what Tribune has in the guide data, for area code 61611. Trip does say things look a bit funky with that station, although he does not "see anything fatally wrong with it."


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

That's amazingly technical! So...what do I do with that info? Sorry, I have no idea  (Going to cross post this)


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

I guess my plan of attack is I'll call Tivo (yay  ) and try to tell them what's going on, and mention I have this readout that someone was kind enough to make from that TSReader.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Great news! The person at Tivo thinks it is an issue with the station not transmitting info right, and Tivo's calling for me.

Hopefully this'll get fixed, and Comcast'll get dumped (mwahahahaha!)

Thanks for all the help 

(Oh, bad thing is I wanted to give a really good feedback for this guy 'cause he was so helpful, but I guess the phone system hung up on me so I wasn't able to leave feedback for him  )


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

Got an email out of the blue from KAZT, they replied to my email I had sent three weeks early saying they were working on it and expected it to be fixed in a couple weeks. I replied that they already has 7.1 and were just waiting on 7.2 and his reply was


> We WILL get it fixed! It is my personal goal . . .


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

Yesterday 7.2 now had correct listings, 8.2 came back and 43.1 was removed, looks like I am 100% now.

Persistence seems to have paid off, I waited the time they asked but I basically called every two weeks to report the problem was still happening.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

Congrats!

Well, 70 days from now, many of us will start Round 2 of this, um, "process".


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## ccrider2 (Nov 1, 2007)

cogx said:


> Congrats!
> 
> Well, 70 days from now, many of us will start Round 2 of this, um, "process".


As the tune "Hail to the Chief" is playing.


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## Weihoolygiecy (Apr 5, 2009)

do not understand


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## mourning_air (Dec 1, 2005)

Denver area OTA ABC and NBC made the switch today:
ABC - KMGH changed from 7-1 frequency 17 to 7-1 frequency 7
NBC - KUSA changed from 9-1 frequency 16 to 9-1 frequency 9

I called Tivo and was told it will take 5-7 days to resolve unless more people report the problem. If you are in the Denver area don't hesitate to call to get the change pushed through.

edit: looks like they fixed it now!


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

59-1 WAOE still isn't working for me, so maybe that station isn't paying attention to Tivo...or they didn't call it, or who knows.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Didn't see this mentioned, but the TiVo lineup change form is back:

TiVo Lineup Change Report Form


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

bkdtv said:


> Didn't see this mentioned, but the TiVo lineup change form is back:
> 
> TiVo Lineup Change Report Form


That's great news. My guess is that TiVo determined it wasn't worth tying up their support lines for lineup problems. Especially considering the June switchover date will soon be upon us.

That or they purposely took it down for the February switchover date. Who knows.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Oh THANK GOODNESS! As much fun as having to do this over the phone is...


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

mourning_air said:


> Denver area OTA ABC and NBC made the switch today:
> ABC - KMGH changed from 7-1 frequency 17 to 7-1 frequency 7
> NBC - KUSA changed from 9-1 frequency 16 to 9-1 frequency 9
> 
> ...


UUUGGGGHHHHH!!! Missed the office...


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

bkdtv said:


> Didn't see this mentioned, but the TiVo lineup change form is back:
> 
> *TiVo Lineup Change Report Form*


That is good news. However, there really will be little excuse to have the lingering problems for weeks past 6/12/09, as happened in February and March. If the parties involved haven't learned anything about being proactive by now...


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

cogx said:


> That is good news. However, there really will be little excuse to have the lingering problems for weeks past 6/12/09, as happened in February and March. If the parties involved haven't learned anything about being proactive by now...


6/12? In Denver we just had a cut-over on 4/16....

Because of the stupid 6/12 extension, now stations are cutting over whenever they feel like it..


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

Adam1115 said:


> 6/12? In Denver we just had a cut-over on 4/16....
> 
> Because of the stupid 6/12 extension, now stations are cutting over whenever they feel like it..


The FCC did post two documents back on 3/17/09 with the list of all remaining stations and their intended switch dates, so it was not completely out-of-the-blue. It sounds like Tribune is getting these latest changes done in short order, compared to the chaos we had in February and March.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

cogx said:


> The FCC did post two documents back on 3/17/09 with the list of all remaining stations and their intended switch dates, so it was not completely out-of-the-blue. It sounds like Tribune is getting these latest changes done in short order, compared to the chaos we had in February and March.


For years, it was February 09. Then they announced they planned to wait until June, then a month later they announced 4/16.

Pretty confusing...


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

48 hours later (almost) and still no guide data...

Seems like the remapping to keep the channel number the same should also keep the guide data the same. Why they tied it to the frequency, I have no clue...


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

Adam1115 said:


> 48 hours later (almost) and still no guide data...


The Zap2It guide data shows KMGH at frequency 7 and KUSA at frequency 9 this morning (4/18), which looks correct.

I also checked these channels that had been listed to have a DTV frequency change this week - KOLR, WTOV, WHLT, WWDP, WJET - and they all look to have the correct fccChannelNumber values in the Zap2It guide data.


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

Success story, KAET PBS shut off their analog and moved from 29 to 8, they switch happened at 12AM and when my Tivo called in on schedule around noon they already had updated data.


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## markens (Apr 12, 2007)

Another success story: guide info (correct and usable!) appeared yesterday for the DTV translator K47LDD I've been trying for four months to get added to the lineup. I think the report I submitted last week on the resurrected Tivo lineup correction form probably had a positive effect.

So (knock on wood) I finally have guide info for all the OTA channels I receive, including five subchannels on two low power DTV translators.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

59.1 still doesn't work for me. I guess I should call back again, though I doubt it'll ever get fixed. it's not guide data though I guess, just that the Tivo doesn't understand what 59.1 is broadcasting (but other receivers do). So its still probably a software issue.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

Puppy76 said:


> 59.1 still doesn't work for me. I guess I should call back again, though I doubt it'll ever get fixed. it's not guide data though I guess, just that the Tivo doesn't understand what 59.1 is broadcasting (but other receivers do). So its still probably a software issue.


TiVos are less tolerant of errors in the channel id data than other receivers. I suspect that's the case here. While it's good to be more tolerant of errors, some errors will stomp on good info from other channels, so you can't be tolerant of those errors. I don't know what the case is here.


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

Does DVR Diagnostics show a signal but not a program lock when you tune to it? If so this might be the problem: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7094032#post7094032


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

It's The Final Countdown... to 6/12/09!
I predict our OTA channel lineups will get updated swiftly and accurately this time around!

http://www.dtv.gov/stationlist.htm


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I'm just hoping that with the frequency and power changes, my local stations still come in. Especially WPVI (ABC) which is moving to the VHF band.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

morac said:


> I'm just hoping that with the frequency and power changes, my local stations still come in. Especially WPVI (ABC) which is moving to the VHF band.


I hear ya, back in Feb I had a channel go from UHF to VHF and until they ramped up their power output, it was shaky getting it tuned in with my existing antenna. My last local station to kill off analog is doing the same thing next week, so... we'll see.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

cogx said:


> I predict our OTA channel lineups will get updated swiftly and accurately this time around!


Haha. Thanks for the laugh. That was a good one.


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

I've got Fox,NBC and ABC moving so I hope its done same day as it was when our PBS moved last month.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

They jumped the gun and removed some of my analog channels, but I don't watch analog OTA so I don't really care.


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

Tivo came through for me, all channels were updated correctly today.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

For those in the San Francisco Bay Area who receive OTA KPIX 5 and KBCW 44, these stations will go off the air for maintenance on Saturday, June 13th from Midnight to 9am in preparation for the digital transition.

This will not affect cable viewers.


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## ccrider2 (Nov 1, 2007)

Please excuse my post here. For some reason I quit getting email notices....just trying to Jump-start them.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

My TiVo connected to the mothership earlier today, but no channel updates. Now all only a handful come in correctly.
Also the guide still lists all the old analog channels.

Hopefully they'll be updated by tomorrow.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

*SIGH* The three stations that quit working for me a few months ago still don't work. Guess I'll just rent the last season of Lost :-/


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

morac said:


> My TiVo connected to the mothership earlier today, but no channel updates. Now all only a handful come in correctly.
> Also the guide still lists all the old analog channels.
> 
> Hopefully they'll be updated by tomorrow.


My TiVos also connected to the mothership overnight and all three of the locals that had changed frequencies were in the guide properly, I was able to delete the old ones and all my guide data was filled.


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## DealDuderino (Jan 3, 2009)

In S. Manhattan and ABC, PBS, CW (and off/on CBS) changed and it's not reflected in the guide post-update. Initially I blamed TiVo, but then I read this from the excellent DTV.gov website: "Many stations will be changing channels at various times during the day on June 12, 2009. Be sure to scan for channel changes as convenient on that day and particularly on June 13 after all stations have changed to their final DTV channels." I realize that it's now the 13th, but not all channels (ie, CBS) have completed the transition. (Still, it frustrates to no end that we can't just manually map channels in this situation. Sigh.)

In short, let the wrinkles get ironed out and shut off the boob tube. Good excuse to get out and enjoy the sunshine!


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## gonefishin (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi all 

I'm in the Chicago area, Joliet. I'm getting all my channels, but I don't have guide information for a few channels, abc and cbs to name a few. I forced the network update with no luck. Hopefully this gets fixed soon...unless someone has any other suggestions.

thanks,
dan


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

morac said:


> My TiVo connected to the mothership earlier today, but no channel updates. Now all only a handful come in correctly.
> Also the guide still lists all the old analog channels.
> 
> Hopefully they'll be updated by tomorrow.


that's really odd- I forced a call late last night and my tivo fixed everything for both Philly and New York DMA's with the exception of they missed 2 subchannels on telefutura/univision type spanish language channels

Everything else was perfect for both Markets (plus the handfull of stations in the lehigh valley and trenton, New Brunswick, and paterson nj)

Did leave just about all the analogs still on the list though.

So I wonder if it's not just like they did a blanket search and replace for all zipcodes that 6-1 moved from it's temp rf slot back to rf6? Maybe they have to somehow dig in each zipcode or something.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Well it appears mine have updated, but now they all show up twice in the channel list, once with the old frequency and once with the new one. Both the old and new ones kept the selection and favorites info, so it's like it did a copy of the old channel instead of a move. The old ones had a "*" next to them so I could remove them, but I didn't have to do that last time they moved the channels.

I wonder if they did this on purpose?


Also the old analog channels are still there. I was hoping they'd remove these to clean up the list since they are no longer broadcasting. Maybe they'll do that later.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

DealDuderino said:


> In S. Manhattan and ABC, PBS, CW (and off/on CBS) changed and it's not reflected in the guide post-update. Initially I blamed TiVo, but then I read this from the excellent DTV.gov website: "Many stations will be changing channels at various times during the day on June 12, 2009. Be sure to scan for channel changes as convenient on that day and particularly on June 13 after all stations have changed to their final DTV channels." I realize that it's now the 13th, but not all channels (ie, CBS) have completed the transition. (Still, it frustrates to no end that we can't just manually map channels in this situation. Sigh.)
> 
> In short, let the wrinkles get ironed out and shut off the boob tube. Good excuse to get out and enjoy the sunshine!


Now I'm sure Tribune and Tivo did this weird. I'm way out in NJ- halfway to philly and everything is mapped propperly for the NY stations. If I go to signal strength and put in 2-1 it shoots right to CBS's new slot at 33. And the same for the rest. So in my zip code, tivo figured out where the ATSC channels really are. So strange.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

My last channel to kill off analog also changed their digital broadcast frequency late last night and we know that was the big problem with the Tribune/Zap2It guide data in Feb and Mar (and perhaps Apr and May for some). 
However, this time around, my channel's frequency change was actually updated yesterday in the guide data (when I checked it via Schedules Direct) and my TiVo S3 pulled down that updated data during the early AM sometime. When I just checked a little bit ago, I also saw I had the old frequency entries still listed in the channel lineup, with the scanned * next to them, but that's fine, I just unchecked those entries and all is well with my TiVo's OTA channel lineup!. :up:


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Ugh, WPVIDT barely comes in. It's signal strength is 52 with a SNR of 16 dB. The RS Corrected errors jump about 10,000 every second. The Uncorrected errors are somewhat steady (jumping a few hundred now and then). It's breaking up frequently.

I know WPVIDT moved to a VHF frequency and I have a VHF antenna, but that is pretty bad considering I'm only 17 miles away from the tower.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

gonefishin said:


> Hi all
> 
> I'm in the Chicago area, Joliet. I'm getting all my channels, but I don't have guide information for a few channels, abc and cbs to name a few. I forced the network update with no luck. Hopefully this gets fixed soon...unless someone has any other suggestions.
> dan


Here's what the Zap2It data has right now, so the first question is whether this is correct or not? If it is, then it is just a matter of when your TiVo gets the updated guide data. If not, then I guess you wait until Monday and see if they get it fixed by then.


```
callSign  id  channel  channelMinor  fccChannelNumber  affiliate
WBBMDT	20454	2	1	12	CBS Affiliate
WMAQDT	20452	5	1	29	NBC Affiliate
WMAQDT2	45805	5	2	29	NBC Affiliate
WMAQDT3	61465	5	3	29	Independent
WLSDT	20456	7	1	7	ABC Affiliate
WLSDT2	35892	7	2	7	Independent
WLSDT3	46236	7	3	7	Independent
WGNDT	20455	9	1	19	CW Affiliate
WGNDT2	31044	9	2	19	Independent
WTTWDT	30415	11	1	47	PBS Affiliate
WTTWDT2	36111	11	2	47	PBS Affiliate
WTTWDT3	49346	11	3	47	PBS Affiliate
WTTWDT4	55343	11	4	47	Independent
WYCCDT	34542	20	1	21	PBS Affiliate
WYCCDT2	58666	20	2	21	PBS Affiliate
WYCCDT3	59011	20	3	21	Independent
WCIUDT	36099	26	1	27	Independent
WCIUDT2	36101	26	2	27	Independent
WCIUDT3	59687	26	3	27	Independent
WCIUDT4	61780	26	4	27	Independent
WCIUDT6	59674	26	6	27	Independent
WFLDDT	20361	32	1	31	Fox Affiliate
WWTODT	32504	35	1	10	Independent
WCPXDT	24024	38	1	43	ION Affiliate
WCPXDT2	24124	38	2	43	Independent
WCPXDT3	24125	38	3	43	ION Affiliate
WCPXDT4	24126	38	4	43	Independent
WSNSDT	24521	44	1	45	TELEMUNDO (HBC) Affiliate
WPWRDT	34662	50	1	51	MyNetworkTV Affiliate
WYINDT	49237	56	1	17	PBS Affiliate
WYINDT2	50871	56	2	17	PBS Affiliate
WXFTDT	34840	60	1	50	Telefutura Affiliate
WJYSDT	31486	62	1	36	Independent
WJYSDT2	62338	62	2	36	Independent
WGBODT	42635	66	1	38	Univision (SI) Affiliate
```


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

morac said:


> Ugh, WPVIDT barely comes in. It's signal strength is 52 with a SNR of 16 dB. The RS Corrected errors jump about 10,000 every second. The Uncorrected errors are somewhat steady (jumping a few hundred now and then). It's breaking up frequently.
> 
> I know WPVIDT moved to a VHF frequency and I have a VHF antenna, but that is pretty bad considering I'm only 17 miles away from the tower.


yep- going back to vhf seems boneheaded- it's now worthless to me. So WABC from NY will get all my viewing.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

MichaelK said:


> yep- going back to vhf seems boneheaded- it's now worthless to me. So WABC from NY will get all my viewing.


That's not even an option for me as NY is way too far away for me. I'm technically 17 miles from WPVI's transmitter. It comes in, but breaks up a frequently. I only have a indoor VHF/UHF antenna so I could probably get the station with an outdoor one, but I'm not buying an antenna for one station.

I'll just watch it via cable when I need to.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

For me in the San Francisco Bay Area, only a few stations I had to manually adjust. In the Channels List of my THD, there were 2 sets for KRON 4.1, 4.2, KGO 7.1, 7.2, 7.3. 1 set was the starred scanned channels with no guide data and no video, so those I deleted. The other set I kept and didn't lose any planned recordings on these channels. During the night from midnight to about 9am on June 13th, only 2 channels were not broadcasting at all, KTVU 2.1, 2.2 and KBCW 44.1 and when I checked after getting out of bed, these are working again. So, I didn't get any hiccups except for KMTP which seemed to have disappeared.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

KMTP is broadcasting a loop which says "oops, we're having technical difficulties" and predicts they'll be back in a few days.

Jan


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## gonefishin (Dec 29, 2007)

Everything cleared up this afternoon. The channels and the guide all seem fine. :up:

dan


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> ...If I go to signal strength and put in 2-1 it shoots right to CBS's new slot at 33. And the same for the rest....


What I discovered is, when I check signal strength, even though I deleted the channels from the channel listing, it still plugs the original in. I then have to hit channel up (or down...I forget) to get the the "new" channel....strange. So, for me, it's "forgetting".


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> What I discovered is, when I check signal strength, even though I deleted the channels from the channel listing, it still plugs the original in. I then have to hit channel up (or down...I forget) to get the the "new" channel....strange. So, for me, it's "forgetting".


IF the * channels from the former scans are still there then it looks for both locations.

Have you done the delete scan channels yet- or just unchecked them? That should get rid of all the OLD wrong * channels. In my case the tivo data was sufficient without a re-scan. But a rescan after deleteing the old data shouldn't pick up anything but stuff that actually exists today, post June 12.


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

Puppy76 said:


> *SIGH* The three stations that quit working for me a few months ago still don't work. Guess I'll just rent the last season of Lost :-/


You have to stay on top of them, if they give you a 10 business day time frame and its not fixed after that call them back


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## Cheezmo (Apr 26, 2004)

It the Dallas/Fort Worth area, KTXADT is still in the Tivo guide data at ATSC 18 even though it has moved to ATSC 19 (just did a connection and it didn't fix it). A scan finds it at 19. The other major moves (WFAA moving from ATSC 9 to ATSC 8 and KTVT moving from ATSC 19 to ATSC 11) seem to be updated properly.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

Cheezmo said:


> It the Dallas/Fort Worth area, KTXADT is still in the Tivo guide data at ATSC 18 even though it has moved to ATSC 19 (just did a connection and it didn't fix it). A scan finds it at 19. The other major moves (WFAA moving from ATSC 9 to ATSC 8 and KTVT moving from ATSC 19 to ATSC 11) seem to be updated properly.


I just checked the Tribune/Zap2It guide data (via SchedulesDirect) and it still has the fccChannelNumber value as 18, instead of 19:

callSign	id	channel	channelMinor	fccChannelNumber
KTXADT	25153	21	1	18


You need to report that.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

One of my channels, analog OTA 28 KTFLCA is now on digital 28.1 and 28.2 and my HD will not receive it even though I have scanned the channels again. My HDTV does receive the new channels but not the Tivo HD.

HDTV reports 40 channels found.
Tivo HD reports only 38 channels found. I can't even get the frequencies for the new channels.

The station is a low-power broadcaster and shouldn't need to convert to digital but they did any way.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

ThAbtO said:


> One of my channels, analog OTA 28 KTFLCA is now on digital 28.1 and 28.2 and my HD will not receive it even though I have scanned the channels again. My HDTV does receive the new channels but not the Tivo HD.
> 
> HDTV reports 40 channels found.
> Tivo HD reports only 38 channels found. I can't even get the frequencies for the new channels.


In the past that's been very common in our area. The TiVo is more sensitive to errors in the PSIP data than some other receivers, and will not scan stations with errors in their PSIP data. With some errors, you can tune the station directly, but it is not picked up on a scan.

You might try contacting the engineer at the station.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

My Tivo HD can't get my local "My Network TV" station (59.1) for that reason. My other ATSC tuners can get it just fine.

Luckily I don't care all that much about it, but still they have some syndicated stuff I wouldn't mind seeing :-/ (Ironically, I *can* record from my Series 2, since it's using a converter box that tunes it just fine.)


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

Puppy76 said:


> My Tivo HD can't get my local "My Network TV" station (59.1) for that reason. My other ATSC tuners can get it just fine.
> 
> Luckily I don't care all that much about it, but still they have some syndicated stuff I wouldn't mind seeing :-/ (Ironically, I *can* record from my Series 2, since it's using a converter box that tunes it just fine.)


Can you send me a private message with your TSN and the station ID? I'll add them to my growing list of stations that I'm trying to work with (it's amazing how many aren't cooperative).


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## jiffyspam (Feb 19, 2010)

*Los Angeles OTA - KFLA Moved Frequencies, Guide Data didn't follow*

KFLA channel 8 in Los Angeles changed their underlying frequency from 8 to 52. Virtual Channel (8) remained the same. I was not able to get this channel on the old frequency, but get it loud and clear on the new one. There doesn't seem to be any guide data present on my TIVO or online.

the change was done last Monday. Tivo Support has 'escalated' my request. how long do these things normally take? I'm jonesing for some 'I Spy'


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

What's I Spy? I IMDBed it, and don't really see a current show by that name.


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## jiffyspam (Feb 19, 2010)

Puppy76 said:


> What's I Spy? I IMDBed it, and don't really see a current show by that name.


Vintage TV from the early 60's with Robert Culp and Bill Cosby

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058816/


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

Couple days usually, you should be able to manually record it. 

52 should not be right, the tv band is currently channels 2-51. If it really is 52 tuning to 52-1 should add another 8-1 that you can manually record from while you wait for tivo.


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## Mister B (Jan 23, 2011)

Did the members in Los Angeles ever get the KFLA problem resolved?
As a relatively new TIVO OTA only customer here in El Paso County , Texas I have been trying to get the incorrect and missing guide data/frequencies corrected. The customer representatives are polite and thankfully American, however I am surprised how poorly trained they are in OTA reception.
I have had to start each conversation with an explanation of how digital broadcasts are not necessarily on the channel that the station identifies itself with. (Virtual Channel Confusion!) Being a retired math and science teacher, I would think I put more thought than many into how to explain a technical matter.
I called yesterday to check on a report I called in two weeks ago just to find the guy had not even turned in the matter to those who could fix it. I feel like if TIVO would pay my way to California, I would be glad to hold a seminar on the basics of OTA broadcast for their employees.


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

I usually send them via the lineup form on their site. If you do call say "The digital frequency for 3-1 KTVKDT is listed as 3 but it should be 24". Usually they will say to wait 10 business days for the problem to be fixed. If it is not call them back and say the problem persists. I have been able to get all of my lineup issues resolved. Some as quick as two days and one took a couple months of pestering.

If the station is a translator,CA or LP version of a full power station that might be why you are having problems. The couple month problem for me was getting tivo to understand KAZT-TV and KAZT-CA are the same channel on different frequencies.


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