# Tivo Mini and network switches...



## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

Tivo seems to be getting adamant when speaking with them that we shouldn't use network switches with TiVo Mini's. 

Why would that be? I have been testing a lot lately due to our Mini constantly loosing connectivity, and they may be correct.

But why? Why do all my other media extenders work through switches, but TiVo Mini's don't?

That wasn't the case when I bought it 18 months ago, and there were never warnings from Tivo at that time either.

grrrr


----------



## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

tvmaster2 said:


> Tivo seems to be getting adamant when speaking with them that we shouldn't use network switches with TiVo Mini's.
> 
> Why would that be? I have been testing a lot lately due to our Mini constantly loosing connectivity, and they may be correct.
> 
> ...


Don't worry about it. There are many things that TiVo does or work with TiVo which are not officially supported by Tivo and Tivo reps, and yet, they work perfectly.


----------



## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

thyname said:


> Don't worry about it. There are many things that TiVo does or work with TiVo which are not officially supported by Tivo and Tivo reps, and yet, they work perfectly.


I agree, but in this case, they may be right. The only way I can keep the Mini from locking up is to bypass the switch and go straight into my router. I've tried two switches and three different cables as well.


----------



## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

tvmaster2 said:


> I agree, but in this case, they may be right. The only way I can keep the Mini from locking up is to bypass the switch and go straight into my router. I've tried two switches and three different cables as well.


Weird. I have two different switches in two different room "feeding" two different Minis, and everything works great.

I had switched before in my prior condo, and never had issues either. Go figure...


----------



## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

tvmaster2 said:


> I agree, but in this case, they may be right. The only way I can keep the Mini from locking up is to bypass the switch and go straight into my router. I've tried two switches and three different cables as well.


This is what I have in my leaving room:

Amazon.com: TP-Link 8-Port Gigabit Ethernet Desktop Switch (TL-SG1008D): Computers & Accessories


----------



## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

thyname said:


> This is what I have in my leaving room:
> 
> Amazon.com: TP-Link 8-Port Gigabit Ethernet Desktop Switch (TL-SG1008D): Computers & Accessories


And that's what feeds your router?


----------



## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

tvmaster2 said:


> And that's what feeds your router?


In a way. Probably the other way around. My router (Verizon FIOS Quantum Gateway G1100) only has four ports, and I have more than four devices connected to Ethernet. So one cable goes from the switch to the router, and the devices are all plugged in the switch, including the Mini.

In the basement I don't have cat5 run, just coax (on MoCa). I use my Bolt+ as bridge, connect another switch (similar to the one I linked - different brand) to Bolt+ 's Ethernet port, and plug in multiple devices in it, including another Mini for the second tv in the basement (yes, I have two 65" TVs in basement, one on top the other, as I like to watch two sports games at the same time)


----------



## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

thyname said:


> In a way. Probably the other way around. My router (Verizon FIOS Quantum Gateway G1100) only has four ports, and I have more than four devices connected to Ethernet. So one cable goes from the switch to the router, and the devices are all plugged in the switch, including the Mini.
> 
> In the basement I don't have cat5 run, just coax (on MoCa). I use my Bolt+ as bridge, connect another switch (similar to the one I linked - different brand) to Bolt+ 's Ethernet port, and plug in multiple devices in it, including another Mini for the second tv in the basement (yes, I have two 65" TVs in basement, one on top the other, as I like to watch two sports games at the same time)


P.S. Yes, bridging a TiVo is also one of those things Tivo reps say it is not supported, although it works fine


----------



## delgadobb (Mar 6, 2004)

While there's definitely merit to keeping your network clean/minimal, my question for Tivo would be: How do you expect us to connect the multitude of devices you're promoting to us when every router has four (4) ports?

Look, I understand they don't want us daisy-chaining anything & everything with sloppy connections. That said, as a former network admin they're crazy if they say we can't use switches.

My setup: Cable modem from Cox handles incoming TV/internet/phone. ASUS router has 4 physical ethernet ports & broadcasts wireless. Netgear 16 port gigabit switch fed from one of those 4 ports. 2nd wired port will go to repurposed ASUS router acting as access point upstairs to improve WiFi. 3rd port goes to Sprint Airave for cell signal broadband boost. All of this is in my smart box in a closet downstairs (everything home runs to there). This is the switch I'm using: 
Amazon.com: NETGEAR ProSAFE GS116NA 16-Port Gigabit Ethernet Switch (GS116NA): Electronics

Every room has at least two jacks with Cat5e. Netgear switch connects 4 BR, loft, living room, kitchen, MBR retreat, etc. Tivos & minis everywhere, all connected through the switch. Cleanest solution, they're all on the same gigabit switch & talking to one another. Tivo reps reading from a book or a script like to say not to use a switch, but I guarantee my setup's cleaner than 95% of the stuff out there. I like to avoid WiFi whenever possible since wired is faster & more secure, but the reality of the way stuff works today is there's always gonna be SOME WiFi stuff.

As a general rule, try to minimize downstream daisy-chaining to minimize headache. I have a secondary switch in a computer 'project' room where I'll also work on Tivo upgrades, computers & electronics stuff. None of that stuff is mission-critical day to day stuff, so it can exist on its own subnet. Anything requiring significant uptime goes through the gigabit switch.


----------



## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

delgadobb said:


> While there's definitely merit to keeping your network clean/minimal, my question for Tivo would be: How do you expect us to connect the multitude of devices you're promoting to us when every router has four (4) ports?
> 
> Look, I understand they don't want us daisy-chaining anything & everything with sloppy connections. That said, as a former network admin they're crazy if they say we can't use switches.
> 
> ...


I swear, this will drive me mad. I've tried two different switches, one older Netgear 8-port, and one, newer TP Link I believe, and both cause the Mini to lock-up. If I put the Mini straight into my Asus router, no problems. Any idea what errors these switches may be implementing?


----------



## dbodner (Apr 18, 2011)

tvmaster2 said:


> I agree, but in this case, they may be right. The only way I can keep the Mini from locking up is to bypass the switch and go straight into my router. I've tried two switches and three different cables as well.


It's still functionality going through a switch, it's just in this case your router provides just switching functionality and routing functionality.

Somebody at TiVo may have told you this as a troubleshooting step to see if you had faulty hardware/cables, but in no way is tivo going to hold the stance that they do not support switches.

Related: minis in general seem to be having problems with live tv since the latest update. This may be what you're experiencing.


----------



## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

I have a combination of Ubiquiti UniFi (48-port switch as my main, 8-port PoE switch connected to living room that has my Bolt+ connected) and Linksys 308P switches (my office Mini is connected to, master bedroom is connected to). I've had zero problems out of them.


----------



## delgadobb (Mar 6, 2004)

tvmaster2 said:


> I swear, this will drive me mad. I've tried two different switches, one older Netgear 8-port, and one, newer TP Link I believe, and both cause the Mini to lock-up. If I put the Mini straight into my Asus router, no problems. Any idea what errors these switches may be implementing?


Although it's possible, I doubt the switches themselves are the problem. The extra step *might* be exposing a marginal connection or, more likely, networking issues introduced in the 20.6.3RC7 update. The update bricked two (2) of my Minis & only recently have they become semi-functional after HOURS on the phone with Tivo.

A few things:
1) Can you try other cables? When I was a sysadmin/network guy, you'd be amazed how many times a problem came back to a bad cable or a marginal cable that was exposed by a slight change. We had hundreds of devices connected & I'd say 75+% of the time phantom problems were a cable issue. Not saying this is your case, but it's why I always keep a few spare cables around. Sometimes a simple cable swap does more than you'd think.
2) This is the biggie for me - can you put all your Tivo equipment on one switch, which is then connected back to the router? You would at least localize traffic which may help minimize any issues related to the extra leg going through the switch. If you see my configuration above, that's how I have my Tivo stuff connected & there's a lot of it.
3) My guess is your switches are simple & unmanaged? Otherwise, get your hands on whatever software you can for them. Note: This is rare until you get to larger, more expensive switches; most are unmanaged.
4) After all that, lean on Tivo to get the next software revision released. I know I am. It broke a fair amount of networking stuff so that my Roamio Pro now gives a V106 error saying it's not in my account. The minis have been restored enough that I can see some devices, but normally the Roamio Pro is their main device & neither one can see it. The Roamio Pro itself works fine, but it has become an island. All of this happened after 20.6.3RC7. Multiple Tivo techs have admitted to me it broke a bunch of networking stuff.

Hope this helps.


----------



## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

Thanks. The R


delgadobb said:


> Although it's possible, I doubt the switches themselves are the problem. The extra step *might* be exposing a marginal connection or, more likely, networking issues introduced in the 20.6.3RC7 update. The update bricked two (2) of my Minis & only recently have they become semi-functional after HOURS on the phone with Tivo.
> 
> A few things:
> 1) Can you try other cables? When I was a sysadmin/network guy, you'd be amazed how many times a problem came back to a bad cable or a marginal cable that was exposed by a slight change. We had hundreds of devices connected & I'd say 75+% of the time phantom problems were a cable issue. Not saying this is your case, but it's why I always keep a few spare cables around. Sometimes a simple cable swap does more than you'd think.
> ...


Thanks. The Roamio and Mini are in different rooms, upstairs / downstairs, and i'm not sure I can get them thru the same switch unless I install some new, in-wall jacks, and that would be costly.
One thing about your Roamio - if I turn 'Standby' completely off, it still goes to sleep, aka when I turn on the TV the Roamio is connected to, I always have to wake-up the Roamio. I thought turning Standby off would enable a tuner to always be live and active. Any idea if yours does the same thing?


----------



## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

My TiVo minis (4 of them) have always been connected thru switches (different brands). I have several switches in the home but I do connect those directly to a port on the router. The main TiVo Roamio is also connected to a switch. Have never had any problems other than one bad cable a while back.


----------



## brimorga (Oct 22, 2016)

Try setting up the roamio and all the minis with static IP addresses. You'll need to configure this through the router.


----------



## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

brimorga said:


> Try setting up the roamio and all the minis with static IP addresses. You'll need to configure this through the router.


Thanks - first thing I did.


----------



## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

Can't help but wonder what TiVo's reasoning is for stating that they don't support switches. Even if it's to simplify troubleshooting, they obviously know that it's impossible to build a wired network without switches, so why make such an asinine statement? Honestly makes one question their integrity as a company.

There are 3 switches, plus the router (with its integrated switch), between my Roamio OTA in the living room, and my Mini in the bedroom. Of course everything works just fine. Zero reason for it not to, assuming everything is functioning correctly. Which it is.


----------



## Jimbo687 (Dec 18, 2016)

I have three TiVo mini's and have had the same switch problems since day one. My mini's do not like switches (any brand) and will frequently lose connection w primary box. All TIVO units are plugged directly into back of router and works great. Service is Verizon FIOS(now Frontier) and router is G-1100. I do not know why, but some of us do have problems w minis and switches.


----------



## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

Jimbo687 said:


> I have three TiVo mini's and have had the same switch problems since day one. My mini's do not like switches (any brand) and will frequently lose connection w primary box. All TIVO units are plugged directly into back of router and works great. Service is Verizon FIOS(now Frontier) and router is G-1100. I do not know why, but some of us do have problems w minis and switches.


Has to be something else going on that's causing the problem, and there are many possibilities. As has already been stated, those 4 ports on your router are an integrated switch, so switching, in and of itself, is not the problem.


----------

