# Complain to Amazon about Unbox



## ciTiVo (Oct 2, 2004)

If you love Unbox and think the terms of service are fantastic, skip this thread.

If you think the Unbox terms are unreasonable, consider sending a message to Amazon about Unbox.

For example, here's the message I sent:



> I'm sure I'll try Unbox because I got the $15 credit. However, I'm unlikely to spend actual money on the service because the licensing restrictions are incredibly onerous and consumer hostile.
> 
> When we rent a DVD, we sometimes watch it twice. And on two different systems. And sometimes over a few day window. (Thank you, Netflix.)
> 
> ...


Here's a link to Amazon feedback:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/contact-us/general-questions.html

Cheers,

CI


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

I dropped them a note asking "Don't any of you ever fall asleep while watching a movie at home? 24hrs is not enough time for rented content."

Jim H.


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## bilbo (Dec 7, 2004)

I believe the whole 24-hour window is what Video On Demand (VOD) uses for their rentals. But since Amazon Unbox is not really VOD (it takes approximately 2 hours to download a movie, and the movie cannot be played until the download is complete?), that seems a little bit too restrictive compared to VOD. It seems like Amazon Unbox's most captive audience are Series 3 owners who don't get VOD by choice (because it would require renting a digital cable box for pretty much just this service).


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

ciTiVo said:


> If you think the Unbox terms are unreasonable, consider sending a message to Amazon about Unbox.


Seems to me you should start drafting the same letter to your cableco and satellite provider since they all have 24 hr windows. But unlike Unbox, you do not have 30 days to START watching them. You have 24 hours to watch them On-demand or sat, and the exact playing time for PPV.


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

Yes, 24hrs is the standard VOD viewing window. That's the deal the studios offer ...

However, Disney recently signed a deal allowing for a 72hr window:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6419998.html

Hopefully more studios will follow suit.


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## Georgia Guy (Feb 21, 2003)

I sent 'em a message, but it was about their lack of widescreen format.
I really don't have a problem with the 30 days to watch, 24 hours after starting watching.
We typically only watch movies once, and typically on our best tv in one sitting.

They replied within 24 hours, saying that they are working on a method to supply widescreen format, and hope to offer it soon.

I've only downloaded one movie from Amazon and, other than the large letterboxing, had no real complaint.


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## lawilson2 (Oct 6, 2005)

No other company gives you 30 days to watch a movie. Xbox Live give you about 14 or 15 days. Is it really their fault that someone can't sit still for 2 hours to watch a movie? I've never had an instance where I couldn't finish a movie (Ok, I take that back. I could only watch 30 minutes of Napoleon Dynamite; awful).

The argument that because it takes 2 hours to download, and thus you should get more time is so wrong. As mentioned, up to 30 days to watch it. That's not the case with VOD. Even blockbuster doesn't give you 30 days.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

dt_dc said:


> Yes, 24hrs is the standard VOD viewing window. That's the deal the studios offer ...
> 
> However, Disney recently signed a deal allowing for a 72hr window:
> http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6419998.html
> ...


That's fabulous. Thanks for pointing it out.


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## NotVeryWitty (Oct 3, 2003)

lawilson2 said:


> No other company gives you 30 days to watch a movie.


Ever hear of Netflix?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Their rental format is no different from others like On Demand(Comcast) and the Xbox 360. Of course the quality of those two ar ebetter since they have DD5.1 and HD to choose from.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

ciTiVo said:


> Complain to Amazon about Unbox _(...)_ If you think the Unbox terms are unreasonable, consider sending a message to Amazon about Unbox.


Why would you *complain*?

If you don't like it, don't use it. Pretty simple.


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## ac3dd (Mar 2, 2002)

pl1 said:


> Seems to me you should start drafting the same letter to your cableco and satellite provider since they all have 24 hr windows. But unlike Unbox, you do not have 30 days to START watching them. You have 24 hours to watch them On-demand or sat, and the exact playing time for PPV.


Yes, the 24 hours for Unbox is consistent with VOD/PPV from the cablecos... and that's why I never used any of it when I had a cable DVR.

They need to get away from this idea that giving less value will make people want to pay more. People are seldom going to re-rent a movie because it expires in 24 hours; they'll simply not rent it in the first place.


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## nhaigh (Jul 16, 2001)

I fed back to Amazon that I felt 24hrs was too short after my first download. Just because 24hrs is the norm, it doesn't mean it is right.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

nhaigh said:


> I fed back to Amazon that I felt 24hrs was too short after my first download. Just because 24hrs is the norm, it doesn't mean it is right.


You have 30 days to watch a rental. Do you not understand that? The 24 hour clock starts when you press the play button.


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## hornblowercat (Mar 4, 2007)

Amnesia said:


> Why would you *complain*?
> 
> If you don't like it, don't use it. Pretty simple.


+1 :up:
Common sense in the sea of lunacy.

Judge Judy would have said the same thing.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

ac3dd said:


> They need to get away from this idea that giving less value will make people want to pay more. People are seldom going to re-rent a movie because it expires in 24 hours; they'll simply not rent it in the first place.


Correct. They might even get a movie channel. So, why the beef with Amazon? They aren't doing anything different. Might just as well have a beef with the whole lot of them, as I stated previously. (Not addressed necessarily at you or what you are saying, only at the issue of this thread.)


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## ac3dd (Mar 2, 2002)

I know it's not Amazon and the cablecos, it's the short-sighted greed of the MPAA.


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

ac3dd said:


> Yes, the 24 hours for Unbox is consistent with VOD/PPV from the cablecos... and that's why I never used any of it when I had a cable DVR.
> 
> They need to get away from this idea that giving less value will make people want to pay more. People are seldom going to re-rent a movie because it expires in 24 hours; they'll simply not rent it in the first place.


Or they may buy or rent the DVD ... or they may watch it on HBO ... or they may watch it on a commercial network ... or they may go to a second-run theater ...

$$$ comes from lots of different places. All things being equal ... If I was a distributer (Buena Vista, etc), a premium network (HBO, etc), or anyone else in the distribution chain I'd probably pay less (to the studios) for rights for a movie that had bigger windows and/or more viewers via other distribution windows ...

But perhaps that's just me.

Point is, the distribution windows and deals and contracts for all the distribution methods and all the studios are all intertwined / inter-related and tweaking / changing / adapting / shifting for new technology / etc. is a PITA and happens rather slowly ... over time.


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## ciTiVo (Oct 2, 2004)

Amnesia said:


> Why would you *complain*?
> 
> If you don't like it, don't use it. Pretty simple.


I only complain about things I care about and wish to change.

Some companies actually listen to their customers and try to affect change through their supply change based on feedback -- especially if they can prove they'd get more business for themselves and their partners.

I believe a case can be made that content owners would actually make more $ with Unbox and reasonable licensing than by relying on DVD rentals.

As I said, if you like their terms or don't care -- skip it. If you think they'd get more business from you if they had better terms, let 'em know....


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## skitime (Sep 14, 2006)

I don't mind the time frame, but will need to see the rental library expanded with higher def and 5.1 sound to really use it.


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## jeffsinsfo (Oct 16, 2005)

Sure, Netflix allows you to keep a movie for a long time before returning it. The longer you keep it, however, the longer you have to wait for its replacement. So you could end up paying your full monthly Netflix fee and only a small number of dvds to watch that month if you decide not just let the discs sit and not watch them for weeks at a time.

I have one small, local video store that does 2 day rentals and others that do 1 day rentals. If I want to keep a movie beyond those times, I have to pay for each extra night. I know that Blockbuster has longer rental periods, but their selection is much worse than either of my local independents so I seldom go there.

Given that you don't have to download a movie from Unbox until you want to watch it, I don't see what the big issue is here. I almost never want to split my viewing of a movie in half; once I start watching it I either finish it or turn it off if I'm not enjoying it. I can sort of understand the argument if someone is inclined to watch the same movie repeatedly within a short period of time, say every night for a week or two. I think I've only ever done that with one movie, though, and I doubt many people want to watch the same film night after night. And, of course, if you want to have a copy of the movie to watch repeatedly over a long period of time, you can just buy the dvd or purchase it (rather than renting it) via Unbox.


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

bilbo said:


> It seems like Amazon Unbox's most captive audience are Series 3 owners who don't get VOD by choice (because it would require renting a digital cable box for pretty much just this service).


But since Unboxed doesn't deliver HD, widescreen, and Dolby Digital sound, Series 3 owners find Unboxed quite uncompelling.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

ciTiVo said:


> I only complain about things I care about and wish to change.


You should only complain about problems. There's no reason to *complain* that their offering doesn't have the feature set you're looking for; that's not their problem.

If you wish to offer suggestions as to how to improve their offering, that's another thing. I'm sure that most companies would be interested in how to make their offering more appealing; however, they're probably more receptive to your suggestion if you don't couch it as a complaint.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

In a somewhat related note


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## nhaigh (Jul 16, 2001)

pl1 said:


> You have 30 days to watch a rental. Do you not understand that? The 24 hour clock starts when you press the play button.


I do understand that. My issue is that I see the most likely scenario for stopping a movie for more than a break to get coffee or similar is that tiredness of some other factor is going to prevent you completing it that night. You are then left with the challenge of getting it finished the next day before the 24hrs is up. If it was slightly longer, say 36hrs, then you could easily leave a movie to be completed comfortably the next evening.

I'm not advocating some extended time period that allows me to watch the same thing many times, after all that would be tedious.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

Does anyone know what happens if you are watching the movie AS your 24 hours is up?


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## hornblowercat (Mar 4, 2007)

dig_duggler said:


> Does anyone know what happens if you are watching the movie AS your 24 hours is up?


No but this is critical information everyone should know. I think you should rent a movie and experiment with this. Then please post your experience with this asap.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

nhaigh said:


> I do understand that. My issue is that I see the most likely scenario for stopping a movie for more than a break to get coffee or similar is that tiredness of some other factor is going to prevent you completing it that night. You are then left with the challenge of getting it finished the next day before the 24hrs is up. If it was slightly longer, say 36hrs, then you could easily leave a movie to be completed comfortably the next evening.
> 
> I'm not advocating some extended time period that allows me to watch the same thing many times, after all that would be tedious.


Have you ever purchased a PPV movie? If the start time is 2:00 PM, you have to start watching at 2:00 PM. It's over when it's over. No pause, no rewind, just watch it. Satellite came along and replayed the movie over and over (like cable), but let you watch it over and over for 24 hrs. Then VOD came and you could choose when you watch it, within 24 hrs. Now Unbox says anytime within 30 days, you can pick a 24 hr window.

Edit: I guess I can't figure out how best to say this part below.

(Maybe it's not great, but it's the best yet compared to any of the other legal online/download options, besides DVD.)


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

I'm with nhaigh - 36 hours would ROCK. I'm usually free the same time every weekday evening (dinner time, if I'm home) to watch/catch up on TV shows. Stating an unbox download (playback) one evening implies I better finish watching it by the same time the next day. But what if I'm not free again by that time?


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

pl1 said:


> Have you ever purchased a PPV movie? If the start time is 2:00 PM, you have to start watching at 2:00 PM. It's over when it's over. No pause, no rewind, just watch it.


I always recorded my PPV movies and watched them with full DVR capabilities and kept them on my DirecTivo as long as I wanted even after watching them.



pl1 said:


> Seems to me you should start drafting the same letter to your cableco and satellite provider since they all have 24 hr windows.


Not true. See my comment above. Additionally, I don't typically draft letters about services I don't use.



lawilson2 said:


> No other company gives you 30 days to watch a movie.


The 30 days is pointless, if you ask me - and not the issue. If I am downloading a movie, it's a pretty good bet that I plan on sitting down to watch it very soon. It's the 24hrs after that can be limiting.



Amnesia said:


> Why would you complain?
> If you don't like it, don't use it. Pretty simple.


Call it what you want, but it's all feedback. Feedback can be valuable to a company that is trying to figure out how they can bring in more customers, or why they are losing their current customers.



hornblowercat said:


> Judge Judy would have said the same thing.


Judge Judy is the best!

Jim H.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Feedback sent. Thanks for posting the links & discussion


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## lawilson2 (Oct 6, 2005)

NotVeryWitty said:


> Ever hear of Netflix?


I have Netflix. They DO NOT give you 30 days to watch a movie. They give you as much time as you want. I stand by my comment.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

jhimmel said:


> I always recorded my PPV movies and watched them with full DVR capabilities and kept them on my DirecTivo as long as I wanted even after watching them.


I did the same with cable PPV and VOD, so I'm no stranger to that. And, you could do the same thing by recording to DVD. I've already made two DVD's of the downloads I bought. So, that's an alternative. Within your 30 days, record it. Play it whenever.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

> Seems to me you should start drafting the same letter to your cableco and satellite provider since they all have 24 hr windows.


Absolutely false for both satellite providers. Recorded PPV stays on DVR for as long as you want, you can watch them as many times as you want and you can dump the recording to DVDR anytime you need extra space. With DirecTV using non-TiVo DVR you can record as many PPV as you want and you don't have to pay for them until you watch. If you don't watch them, they will be erased in 60 days with no charge to you.


> I've already made two DVD's of the downloads I bought. So, that's an alternative. Within your 30 days, record it. Play it whenever.


Are you sure? AFAIK, unbox does not allow you to do that on rentals.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

samo said:


> Absolutely false for both satellite providers. Recorded PPV


 I was basing it on my experience WITHOUT any DVR.


> Are you sure? AFAIK, unbox does not allow you to do that on rentals.


I recorded two purchases to DVD. I did not try the rentals.

Can I burn an Unbox video to a DVD?

Yes, you can burn Unbox videos to a DVD or other removable computer storage device for the purpose of backing up your videos. However, Unbox videos burned to a DVD will not be readable by a DVD player

Edit:

Rental Digital Content

You may not copy or move Rental Digital Content from its originally stored location on your Authorized Device.

Purchased Digital Content

You may make a back-up copy of Purchased Digital Content on removable media (e.g. recordable DVD)


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

pl1 said:


> I was basing it on my experience WITHOUT any DVR. I recorded two purchases to DVD. I did not try the rentals.


Oh ... That explains it. But purchased content does not have 24 hour limit either, so it is irrelevant to complains in this thread.


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## aaronw (Apr 13, 2001)

I'll probably try the unbox for the $15 free credit, but nothing beyond that. 24 hours is extremely onerous. The question I have is, who are they competing against? Blockbuster? Blockbuster lets you watch the video as many times as you want while you have it (say a weekend). This would be a lot more interesting if instead of '24 hours' you could watch the content, say, a total of '6 playing hours'. It's like giving away free refills at restaurants.. most people don't have more than 2 anyways, so who cares?

How many people *really* are going to want to watch a rented movie more than two or three times? (ok, maybe parents with kids renting kid's shows, but they should just buy it and be done with it)

Like babylon 5.. I'd download them, but I'd be different for me because I'm so used to watching anything on the tivo any time I want... it'd be a mind shift for me to think 'ok, these particular things are time-sensitive.


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## sonicboom (Sep 2, 2006)

Sigh... I suspected Amazon/tivo wouldn't be able to pull this one off. 

They fail on all fronts:

- user interface
- available content
- delivery reliability 
- cost
- licensing
- format (no HD, or widescreen)

I have netflix. I like the service in general. It's cost effective and flexible. I only wish they didn't throttle delivery or send scratched disks.

Here's to hoping Apple TV gets it right.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

dig_duggler said:


> Does anyone know what happens if you are watching the movie AS your 24 hours is up?


I read in this forum someone said that happened to them (after a particularly long download time, as well as delay on the download start.)

The poster said there was a warning that stated their 24 hour expiration would be up in the middle of playback, and asked them if they still wanted to continue and watch the beginning anyway.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

I received a response from them. They completely miunderstood my 24-hour rant, and thanked me for suggesting they allow a longer download window (apparently 24 hours is also the window, after ordering, to ensure the download begins - so don't disconnect your TiVo's network cable!)

About the Aspect Ratio (for S3) question I raised, they had an elaborate and satisfactory response (nothing we didn't already know) - they ARE working on it, and all 4:3 videos ARE letterboxed so no info is lost (so, yeah, I could use my TV's or TiVo's Aspect zoom to proportionately better fill the screen). And that they ARE in fact working (including with TiVo) to improve the experience for all kinds of TiVos.


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## cokyq (Jan 21, 2007)

I tried out Unbox and purchased the second season of Star Trek Enterprise. Unfortunately, not all episodes downloaded. And amazon cannot figure what is wrong! Now I am trying for them to refund my money. I deleted the episodes to try to redownload and their system says they are on my TIVO and wont let me re download them! They said to download them to a PC and watch them there and I said that is not why I purchased them, I want to see them on my TIVO and big screen HD TV!

Now I have decided to rent them from my Online Blockbuster account. $17/month for 3 discs out at a time, keep them however long you want plus get free local store rentals if you return the online rentals to the store!

Unless I am snowed in and desperate to watch something, I think I will pass on AU.


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## hornblowercat (Mar 4, 2007)

cokyq said:


> I tried out Unbox and purchased the second season of Star Trek Enterprise. Unfortunately, not all episodes downloaded. And amazon cannot figure what is wrong! Now I am trying for them to refund my money. I deleted the episodes to try to redownload and their system says they are on my TIVO and wont let me re download them! They said to download them to a PC and watch them there and I said that is not why I purchased them, I want to see them on my TIVO and big screen HD TV!
> 
> Now I have decided to rent them from my Online Blockbuster account. $17/month for 3 discs out at a time, keep them however long you want plus get free local store rentals if you return the online rentals to the store!
> 
> Unless I am snowed in and desperate to watch something, I think I will pass on AU.


When I had my problem they had me agree to purchase Superman Returns at 7.50 and fully restored all my credits. That means I got Superman Returns at half price, an episode of CSI: NY for free and got 14.99 credited to my account.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

They've added the "Credits Remaining" now, so you can see how much you have left. They didn't have that a few days ago.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

I've rented two movies from Unbox so far, and my experience has been "satisfactory."

Everything could just be a little bit better.  The picture could be better (there was some very annoying panning jerkiness), The cost could be a buck less for my wallet, and the 24 hours should be 48. I'm not that into the sound; I just play it through my TV speakers which are adequate for me. But I can certainly see how people would want a 5.1 experience.

But I found the "shopping" experience extremely easy, it downloaded pretty quickly, and there were no playback problems. 

However, DVDs provide me with a much better picture, and commentary on many. With a minimum of extra inconvenience. So Netflix will still get my dollars.

I think it's a good beginning. I hope they succeed and get better.


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## wackymann (Sep 22, 2006)

If the "powers that be" had ANY brains at all, they would allow the shows to stay on your Tivo forever. It's fine to not allow any transfer off the Tivo, but forcing a deletion at any time dooms this service in my eyes. I won't even try it. Of course I've had cable for over 30 years and have ordered maybe 5 PPV shows, so I'm probably not their target audience LOL


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## TomRaz (Mar 1, 2002)

I was reading the terms and conditions if you purchase a movie vs rent a movie. So if I purchase a movie I am allowed to make a backup copy to dvd burner for instance but I am not allowed to play it on a normal dvd player lets say in another tv in my house. 

Also transfers are not allowed within the Tivo HMO network. 

In my opinion they are more than welcome to put some type of digital signature on download to track who owns it etc for legal reasons. But if I am going to purchase the movie I should have to right to make a backup copy and have it playable on any dvd player I own.

Just my opinion but if I am going to pay $14.99 for a movie purchase from unbox I could just purchase it locally on dvd and avoid all the legal issues with unbox


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

wackymann said:


> If the "powers that be" had ANY brains at all, they would allow the shows to stay on your Tivo forever. It's fine to not allow any transfer off the Tivo, but forcing a deletion at any time dooms this service in my eyes. I won't even try it. Of course I've had cable for over 30 years and have ordered maybe 5 PPV shows, so I'm probably not their target audience LOL


I don't understand your complaint. They do allow the shows to remain on your TiVo forever; you just have to buy instead of rent. They even go a step further: if you buy you can remove it from your TiVo and free up the disk space. Then you can download it again from Amazon for free at any time in the future.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> Why would you *complain*?
> 
> If you don't like it, don't use it. Pretty simple.


Maybe he does like the idea, just not the implementation of it. Complaining is of course the right thing to do, in order to make Amazon improve it, and thus make more money.

I will not download anything until their TiVo offerings are available in 16:9 widescreen. I don't really understand why they aren't.


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## sherylking (Mar 8, 2003)

My husband and I are often at meetings or whatever. I'd like to watch a movie one night when he's gone, and have him watch it the next night when I'm gone. According to Unbox, we have to find a night we're both going to be home, think about it about 3 hours in advance, yada yada yada. . ..!


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

sherylking said:


> My husband and I are often at meetings or whatever. I'd like to watch a movie one night when he's gone, and have him watch it the next night when I'm gone. According to Unbox, we have to find a night we're both going to be home, think about it about 3 hours in advance, yada yada yada. . ..!


24hrs is simply too restrictive. It is my guess that they will lose more revenue based on this restrictive policy then if they allowed a 72hr window. In fact, I don't think I fully understand what they are afraid will happen if you have the movie for 3 days (or even a week).

I understand that the problem is not just with Unbox but with the studios themselves. All of this usage license hysteria is starting to ruin the entertainment experience.

Yes, people SHOULD complain (as well as vote with their dollars), unless they are content to allow more and more restrictive policies continue to come our way. This is not a good trend, and things seem to be getting worse.

As I said earlier, I used the "Buy and Record" option for PPV's on DTV and kept my PPV movies for as long as I needed and watched them as often as I wanted. It's one of the features that encouraged me to make the purchase in the first place.

Jim H.


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## DeathRider (Dec 30, 2006)

It's Divx reborn without the wasteful packaging...


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## ac3dd (Mar 2, 2002)

jhimmel said:


> 24hrs is simply too restrictive. It is my guess that they will lose more revenue based on this restrictive policy then if they allowed a 72hr window. In fact, I don't think I fully understand what they are afraid will happen if you have the movie for 3 days (or even a week).


The 24 hour limit thwarts piracy! Pirates can only copy it if it's available for more than 24 hours. And if you only have it for less than 24 hours, you're less likely to make them lose money by having friends over to watch it! Every additional person who watches it in your house without paying is a loss for them.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

ac3dd said:


> The 24 hour limit thwarts piracy! Pirates can only copy it if it's available for more than 24 hours.


Not being one of those, (a pirate that is), how does that work? Why do they need 24 hrs? Couldn't you defeat the encryption on first play?


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Pretty sure he was being sarcastic about the 24 hour pirate thing.


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## mpastreich (Mar 3, 2004)

pl1 said:


> Not being one of those, (a pirate that is), how does that work? Why do they need 24 hrs? Couldn't you defeat the encryption on first play?


Nah, those sneaky "Pirates" need at least 24 hour access to defeat the copy protection and compress it onto a CD-Rrrrr.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

mpastreich said:


> Nah, those sneaky "Pirates" need at least 24 hour access to defeat the copy protection and compress it onto a CD-Rrrrr.


Fell for that one pretty hard, eh?


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## Joegold (Feb 19, 2007)

lawilson2 said:


> I have Netflix. They DO NOT give you 30 days to watch a movie. They give you as much time as you want. I stand by my comment.


They don't give you as much time as you want. You pay for as much time as you want. You can keep a movie for a year but it will cost you about $72. With unbox your not paying a subscription so they need to lay down some boundaries. If you cant watch a movie in one sitting don't start it until you have time. Its as simple as that. If you cant start the movie within the 30 day period don't bother downloading it. I think this is fairly easy logic does any one else agree?


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Joegold said:


> They don't give you as much time as you want. You pay for as much time as you want. You can keep a movie for a year but it will cost you about $72. With unbox your not paying a subscription so they need to lay down some boundaries. If you cant watch a movie in one sitting don't start it until you have time. Its as simple as that. If you cant start the movie within the 30 day period don't bother downloading it. I think this is fairly easy logic does any one else agree?


It is easy to understand, just very restrictive. Some folks like to (or only have time to) watch a movie in two sittings over two evenings.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

Fofer said:


> It is easy to understand, just very restrictive. Some folks like to (or only have time to) watch a movie in two sittings over two evenings.


Well compared to the $72 the OP calculates, you could own a video for $14 and watch it all you want.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

pl1 said:


> Well compared to the $72 the OP calculates, you could own a video for $14 and watch it all you want.


But not _wherever_ I want... only on the TiVo. And therein lies the problem... at $14 I'd rather just pony up a few more bucks and get the (higher quality, more versatile) DVD itself.

And so: Unbox rental price is fine, but terms are too restrictive. At $1.99, 24 hours might be fine.

And purchase price is too high.

I'm not complaining, mind you. I just won't be using Unbox as much as I would have liked. And that's a shame because TiVo/Amazon could have had a real winner on their hands.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

Fofer said:


> But not _wherever_ I want... only on the TiVo. And therein lies the problem... at $14 I'd rather just pony up a few more bucks and get the (higher quality, more versatile) DVD itself.


Not quite true. You could xfr to PC and/or portable device and you can copy it to a DVD. But, I know what you are saying. For $15, might as well buy the DVD. Personally, it's fine for me. It's the same price I was paying for Comcast PPV, so no big deal. Although, with PPV I could keep a copy on my TiVo and copy it to DVD.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

pl1 said:


> Not quite true. You could xfr to PC and/or portable device and you can copy it to a DVD. But, I know what you are saying. For $15, might as well buy the DVD. Personally, it's fine for me. It's the same price I was paying for Comcast PPV, so no big deal. Although, with PPV I could keep a copy on my TiVo and copy it to DVD.


Xfr to a PC? If I had one. (Elated Mac guy here.)
Xfr to a portable device? If I had a compatible one. (Happy iPod owner here.)
Copy to a DVD? By using "TiVo's "Save to VCR" command, and recording in real-time on a DVD Record, I presume? No thanks. Takes too long, and the quality suffers even more.

The *only* thing good about the Unbox feature is the convenience and elegance (I like one unified "Now Playing List.") I can't quite call it "immediate gratification" since it takes so long to download.

Something's gotta give.  If I was on an S2 I imagine I'd be more lenient and happy... but on an S3, at the very least, the PQ has to improve before I think of this as a viable means to grab something to watch.

I'm happy to see the feature, don't get me wrong. I am glad it's there. It's certainly a good, very important step in the right direction. But we're not "there" yet (IMHO.)


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

Fofer said:


> By using "TiVo's "Save to VCR" command, and recording in real-time on a DVD Record, I presume? No thanks. Takes too long, and the quality suffers even more)


I never use that Save to VCR function. The goal of that is to keep you from hitting any keys that might screw up the recording. You can copy anything you want off of the TiVo including all of the menu items. As far as quality, any movie I record looks as good as the TiVo. And as for taking too long to record, I either record while I'm watching it, or if not, I switch to another TiVo. But, I gave up a long time ago keeping any backups of movies. I never look at them after I've seen them once. I always thought I would, but I never do.


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## Georgia Guy (Feb 21, 2003)

pl1 said:


> I never use that Save to VCR function. The goal of that is to keep you from hitting any keys that might screw up the recording. You can copy anything you want off of the TiVo including all of the menu items. But, I gave up a long time ago keeping any backups of movies. I never look at them after I've seen them once. I always thought I would, but I never do.


The "Save To VCR" function is nice because it gives an uncluttered black-background title page to the recording with the program info, credits, date, etc. 
I don't back up any movies to dvd that either (at least not from a Tivo), but burn many a dvd of television shows for friends and relatives who misssed something, or its something we think they might really like.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

Georgia Guy said:


> The "Save To VCR" function is nice because it gives an uncluttered black-background title page to the recording with the program info, credits, date, etc..


I know, it does look nice, but I'm too impatient. And, if I'm recording a hockey game for my father or something, I like to edit out the commercials while playing it back (and recording simultaneously.)


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## hornblowercat (Mar 4, 2007)

Fofer said:


> Xfr to a PC? If I had one. (Elated Mac guy here.)
> Xfr to a portable device? If I had a compatible one. (Happy iPod owner here.)
> Copy to a DVD? By using "TiVo's "Save to VCR" command, and recording in real-time on a DVD Record, I presume? No thanks. Takes too long, and the quality suffers even more.


I purchased "Superman Returns" and saved it to VCR (DVD), it was 2:30 so I used whaever setting that was on my DVD recorder. Now while I tend to agree that most transfers suffer from lack of quality in this instance it came out, well. perfect. I was truly surprised at how well it looked.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

pl1 said:


> I know, it does look nice, but I'm too impatient. And, if I'm recording a hockey game for my father or something, I like to edit out the commercials while playing it back (and recording simultaneously.)


Ya gotta be real tight with the remote for that kinda trick-playery. Because someone's gonna we watching you later! Go too fast into the game or show after a commercial, yikes, you might spoil something! No pressure though.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

Fofer said:


> Ya gotta be real tight with the remote for that kinda trick-playery. Because someone's gonna we watching you later! Go too fast into the game or show after a commercial, yikes, you might spoil something! No pressure though.


I use the dual remote method. Pause the DVD recorder at the appropriate time with it's remote, then 30 sec skip 3 X with the Tivo remote, then hit the recorder pause button again to start recording again. Now, obviously this is not something I do if I'm not also interested in watching, but if I am, it's not that much different from my normal TiVo activity. I just have to remember the recorder. The only real big issue I have is if I did not factor enough recording space for OT or something. With movies, it is check the length, set up the flex record, and hit the record button.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Ah, gotcha. Never thought about pausing the DVD recorder too. I gotta get me one of those.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

Fofer said:


> Ah, gotcha. Never thought about pausing the DVD recorder too. I gotta get me one of those.


They have REALLY come down in price for SD Quality. I think they are $89 or something at Target. My Panasonic was something like $400 a few years back.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Yeah, I also see one that has a VCR built in as well for $90, too! I'd hardly ever use it, but might be nice to have, just in case, of it I ever wanted to watch an old tape, or transfer an old tape to DVD or something.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Heck, with a Harmony and an enterprising mind - I bet you could set up a 'macro' within an activity to semi-automate this copy process  (Then tell us how you did it!)


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## avpman (Dec 28, 2005)

mportuesi said:


> But since Unboxed doesn't deliver HD, widescreen, and Dolby Digital sound, Series 3 owners find Unboxed quite uncompelling.


I agree. I was very disappointed by the quality (or lack thereof) of the Unbox deliverable on the S3 It was like watching standard definition TV.


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## lawilson2 (Oct 6, 2005)

Xbox Live Marketplace is looking more and more attractive for instant gratification. I'm a Netflix subscriber, bit I'm reducing it to one/month starting next month since I have every cable movie channel, as well as the 360 option (and Unbox if I want SD). I actually have too many movie options!


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

lawilson2 said:


> Xbox Live Marketplace is looking more and more attractive for instant gratification.


It would be attractive to me too if it actually had a lot of content.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

rainwater said:


> It would be attractive to me too if it actually had a lot of content.


It would be attractive to me too if I had room on the (almost full, and I barely have anything!) 20GB hard drive to store more than one or two downloads.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

maybe I'm on crack but I think the zoomed quality on my s3 is comparable to a DVD. 

granted we only rented one movie and it was animated so maybe that makes it easier, but I was pleasantly surprised by the picture I got on my HDTV.

Hopefully they get MP4 HD downloads for the S3 soon. Can they put 5.1 sound in an MP4?

I understand the complaints with the restrictions but really I dont think it's so terrible. There's a movie I wanted to see so I went ahead and ordered it yesterday. Still haven't watched it. But I'm sure some time in the next 30 days my wife and I will get a free evening to watch it. 

To me it's more of a flaw that tivo's system doesn't allow playback untill it's fully downloaded. You can with MRV or tivo to come back so it's silly that tivocast needs to be totally downloaded. Apparently the unbox pc downloads allow you to start watching right away too. With fast broadband connections your could order it and start watching almost instantly if it weren't for that so you could impulse buy a lot more. 

I think the solution to the 24hr is really pretty simple- I understand the want to limit it from 72 hours or weeks or months or even two days but really they should spot you 36 hours or maybe midnight of the next day or anything so if you fall asleep or get unexpectedly interupted one night you can try it again the next night at the same time. I dont understand why there's so much resistance from the stuidos- but maybe the 72 hr deal above is the start of some common sense...


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

DVD ain't all that - *just* 720x480, and less 'useful' pixels if it is wide screen (and with a higher ratio than 16:9)

The video quality of Unbox isn't the (main) issue here - it's the Aspect ratio and the audio quality.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Oh I know dvd is not HD - but since I dont own a HD disc player it's basically the benchmark for getting rental video on my tv. Hence being equal to dvd is equal to status quo and not a downgrade. 

I dont see an issue with teh aspect ratio- hit the zoom button and you have 16:9 without a huge hit to PQ (at least on an animated movie- all we've watched so far is ice age melt down...).

Audio is a different story. Can you put 5.1 sound on an MP4? Maybe that's the solution?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

The pricing is too high for my taste. At $4 a rental for most "new" releases, coupled with the fact that they don't generally have the current week's releases, I'm going to just keep going to my local video store or use netflix. My local store is $9 for 3 rentals that I keep for about 36-48 hours.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I still don't understand why they don't offer 16:9 format, since all Series 2 and Series 3 TiVos are capable of playing those back. I wrote Amazon and complained about that.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

MickeS said:


> I still don't understand why they don't offer 16:9 format, since all Series 2 and Series 3 TiVos are capable of playing those back. I wrote Amazon and complained about that.


They can use their server farms (presumably) to transcode new movies that aren't on the lista t all, or they could use them to -re-transcode existing offerings at S3-suitable resolutions & Aspect Ratio. Its an easy choice ... and if I ran Amazon, I'd do the former first


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

ashu said:


> They can use their server farms (presumably) to transcode new movies that aren't on the lista t all, or they could use them to -re-transcode existing offerings at S3-suitable resolutions & Aspect Ratio. Its an easy choice ... and if I ran Amazon, I'd do the former first


I don't understand what you mean... they already have these in widescreen format, but only for PC viewing. They have decided to do the TiVo format in 4:3. What re-transcoding are you talking about that would somehow make it easier to do them in 4:3 than 16:9?


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

bitrates. resolutions. file sizes. incomplete sentences - you know the drill.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

ashu said:


> bitrates. resolutions. file sizes. incomplete sentences - you know the drill.


Still don't understand what you mean. I still don't understand why they chose to make the movies in 4:3 and not 16:9.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

95+% of TiVos in the field wouldn' 'benefit' from 16:9 (OAR arguments notwithstanding, luddites would come around crying for their lost screen real estate to be made better use of. P&S is an unfortunate reality)

Hence the 4:3 transcode. I guess.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

"Transcoding"? Do you actually think that they're dynamically cropping a widescreen versions of the content to 4:3? They have to be using professionally edited 4:3 versions. If not, in every other scene some major character would be talking without ever coming into frame. No one would be happy watching that. Creating a "proper" pan-and-scan version of the movie isn't something that can be done automatically (AFAIK).

They have to have both the widescreen and "full screen" versions on tap, if they're going to download both.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

ashu said:


> They can use their server farms (presumably) to transcode new movies that aren't on the lista t all, or they could use them to -re-transcode existing offerings at S3-suitable resolutions & Aspect Ratio. Its an easy choice ... and if I ran Amazon, I'd do the former first


but in all seriousness- isn't amazon's "server farm" likely huge to deal with their peak demand and then sits much of it sits fallow a good portion of the middle of the night? I'd guess they could have transcoded everythign old they had from PC to native 16:9 in a matter of days if they were going that route- no?


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

True - if the demand/impetus were high enough, they would have done it already (or to start with). Keep writing to them, fellow S3 owners ... I already did, twice 

ps: Interesting use of 'fallow'


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

ashu said:


> ...
> 
> ps: Interesting use of 'fallow'


"english for engineers"

You are lucky I can communicate in english at all-

LOL!


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

I'm tellin' you guys--"transcoding" from widescreen to 4:3 isn't something that can be done automatically. Unless it was shot open-matte and framed with 4:3 viewing in mind, the result would be nearly unwatchable (though most television is probably shot that way these days). I'm unaware of anything that they're selling and/or renting that isn't already available from the suppliers as both 16:9 (or some wider format in a 16:9 letterbox) and 4:3; if not, it's 4:3 only. There's no reason not to keep copies in all formats that you're going to make available.

To my mind, "transcoding" is "translating" the "encoding" to some other form, like conversion from MPEG-2 to VC-1 or somesuch, not some sort of automatically editing of video.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

I'm not sure but I beleive the pc versions are 16:9 and the tivo download versions are 4:3 BUT with black bars to letterbox it. (at least the 2 I've watched so far have been) So you could do it by transcoding (not sure if adding the balck bars is technically transcoding, but most any thing I've ever tried as a transcoder allowed that option to create 4:3 output)

I just assume they get a high quality 16:9 digital master from the studios and then they use that as the source to transcode to the pc version OR the current tivo version (by adding black bars). No need to pan and scan or crop. 


But I'm no expert or insider or anything so I could be completely wrong (wouldn't be the first time...)


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

Just adding black bar _might_ work for television shows, since I think most of them are shot open matte (4:3 in a 16:9 frame), and it might work for a few movies which have been shot that way, but it's not going to work for nearly all of them. Try watching a widescreen film on HBO on a 4:3 screen zoomed to fill up the screen. People will too often talk to someone or about something that's off screen to one side or the other who or which might not ever be brought into the center 4:3 portion of the picture during the scene. It's not very satisfying to watch and certainly nothing you can sell (or at least not sell and expect repeat customers).

As I said, I think that most widescreen television is shot that way, with cameras that let the cameraman and director see the 16:9 shot, with lines delineating the 4:3-shaped area in the center; each shot is framed to keep everything of primary interest inside of that 4:3 portion. In movies, getting everything into the theatrical aspect ratio is most important, so if they use open matte, it'll be to matte a central 16:9 (or 1.85:1 or 2.35:1, etc) area of a 4:3 frame; in the full screen version where the matte is removed, you actually get to see more of what the camera was pointed at.

In any case, what exactly would the point be? I'd estimate that storage to keep a separate version would be cheaper than increased computing power to create a dynamically cropped version for every requested 4:3 download.


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## razi (Sep 19, 2006)

mikeyts said:


> I'm tellin' you guys--"transcoding" from widescreen to 4:3 isn't something that can be done automatically.


Mike,

The unbox tivo versions are not pan and scanned, they are 4:3 letterboxed. So, if Amazon has 16x9 masters, they *can* automatically 'transcode' them to 4x3 letterbox with no manual intervention.
The question here is why they've chosen to do this. the S2 and S3 tivos, both support 4x3 monitors and will letterbox 16x9 video automatically if needed.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

razi said:


> The unbox tivo versions are not pan and scanned, they are 4:3 letterboxed. So, if Amazon has 16x9 masters, they *can* automatically 'transcode' them to 4x3 letterbox with no manual intervention.


Ah! I didn't understand that they're letterboxed--I thought that they were cropped to 4:3 fullscreen.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

mikeyts said:


> ...
> 
> In any case, what exactly would the point be? I'd estimate that storage to keep a separate version would be cheaper than increased computing power to create a dynamically cropped version for every requested 4:3 download.


 just to calrify- I dont think they transcode ont he fly- that's nutty. They take their master and do it once for each version they want to create. It might not be that amazon even gets the orginal master- maybe they call up paramount and say they want A, B, &C transcodes of the master.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

mikeyts said:


> Ah! I didn't understand that they're letterboxed--I thought that they were cropped to 4:3 fullscreen.


razi explained what i was trying to say.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

razi said:


> The question here is why they've chosen to do this. the S2 and S3 tivos, both support 4x3 monitors and will letterbox 16x9 video automatically if needed.


Exactly. Seems like a really strange decision to me.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

Besides the ridiculous picture quality and format for the S3 I just found that the titles are the "edit" version and not the real deal. Movies NC-17 have the R rated version only, apparently. 

Sergio


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

slimoli said:


> Movies NC-17 have the R rated version only, apparently.


Example?


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

Requiem for a dream


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

I posted my complaint to Amazon earlier today. I pointed out that 30 days/24 hours limits aren't necessary at all, since we can't copy shows off Series 3 units, and they can be locked down to prevent copying on Series 2. I also pointed out they'd need to add 480p, 16:9 widescreen, and Dolby Digital to simply become competitive with DVD rentals. And I also asked for HD.

I don't expect anything to become of it, but I wanted to let them know why I won't be using Unboxed. I could see myself using this service if it weren't quite so flawed, and the flaws (apart from the DRM restrictions) ,are things they can certainly fix.


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## knightl (Mar 15, 2006)

mportuesi said:


> I posted my complaint to Amazon earlier today. I pointed out that 30 days/24 hours limits aren't necessary at all, since we can't copy shows off Series 3 units, and they can be locked down to prevent copying on Series 2. I also pointed out they'd need to add 480p, 16:9 widescreen, and Dolby Digital to simply become competitive with DVD rentals. And I also asked for HD.
> 
> I don't expect anything to become of it, but I wanted to let them know why I won't be using Unboxed. I could see myself using this service if it weren't quite so flawed, and the flaws (apart from the DRM restrictions) ,are things they can certainly fix.


amen.
from your lips to amazon's ears, or inbox in this case....

has there been any recent comments from any of the tivo lurkers
regarding what amazon is/isn't providing as far as quality content?
i've given up on hd downloads, but dvd quality video/audio would 
be great.


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## moxie1617 (Jan 5, 2004)

knightl said:


> amen.
> from your lips to amazon's ears, or inbox in this case....
> 
> has there been any recent comments from any of the tivo lurkers
> ...


I installed my S3 last week and tried the Amazon Unbox and compared it to DirecTV PPV. Both titles cost $3.99. The title that I went head to head with was The Illusionist.

The quality was similar, with D* having the edge in fewer motion artifacts. 
Both were 2 Channel stereo. The Unbox was non-anamorphic widescreen, while the D* PPV was full screen 4:3. The Unbox was viewed using the S3 and a 47" CRT RPTV. The DirecTV PPV was viewed using my old S1 DirecTivo.

I rented another unbox title, Jet Li's Fearless. I didn't notice any motion artifacts in the fight scenes( I was surprised by that), but when the camera panned across a scene I was on the edge of becoming sea sick. The frames juddered very noticeably.

Unless Unbox can provide DD 5.1 or DTS tracks, anamorphic widescreen, and higher bitrates for their titles, I will not use it for viewing any recent releases.

My next step is to see what they offer in older titles and see if there is any benefit to using Unbox.

BTW, neither DirecTV PPV or Unbox approached DVD quality.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

knightl said:


> amen.
> from your lips to amazon's ears, or inbox in this case....
> 
> has there been any recent comments from any of the tivo lurkers
> ...


for my family- even zoomed up- the quality on the S3 is close enough to a dvd that the few times a month we used to rent blockbuseter are now replaced with unbox downloads.

audio is plain stereo for now- but it's decent.


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

Here's the response I received from Amazon regarding my complaint:



> Greetings from Amazon.com.
> 
> I am sorry to hear that you will not be using the Amazon Unbox service
> due to the restrictions associated with Amazon Unbox videos and the
> ...


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Hey - I think Kristopher responded to me as well!


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## moxie1617 (Jan 5, 2004)

Kind of encouraging to hear they may offer anamorphic widescreen for the S3 in the near future.


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

ashu said:


> Hey - I think Kristopher responded to me as well!


Yeah, I think poor Kristopher is tired of dealing with us whiny Tivo owners by now


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## Canoehead (Sep 12, 2006)

I missed recording 24 last week (user error) and wanted to see it so I did not get out of order. Ordered the unbox from work and it was ready to go when I got home. Quality seemed more like a DVD than SD TV. HD would have been better, but not a bad stop-gap for ordering TV (a lot better than I-Tunes). Not good enough for movies, but ok for TV.


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## cokyq (Jan 21, 2007)

I had 2 episodes of Star Trek Enterprise season 2 that failed to download to my S3. Interestingly, the shows downloaded to a PC, but my intention was not to watch those shows on my 17 inch PC Monitor. After deleting the downloaded episodes, it took a few messages and 2 conversations with AU, but they finally refunded my money. Evidence (which helped me obtain a refund) that they are still having problems is that now they have stopped season 2 and 3 availability for TiVO download.

Hopefully they will get their act together soon, as this service will be of use to some TiVO owners out there.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

In the early days of TiVoToCome it was discovered that certain Series2 models did not handle 16:9 anamorphic properly. Perhaps that has something to do with not providing it.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

interesting- 

you think a software patch could fix those boxes or is it a hardware thing?


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

MichaelK said:


> interesting-
> 
> you think a software patch could fix those boxes or is it a hardware thing?


I don't know. Maybe they can start working on it after S3 TTG/MRV and we'll find out in 5 years.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Rofl


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

MichaelK said:


> Rofl


Sheesh - don't encourage him!


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## moxie1617 (Jan 5, 2004)

dig_duggler said:


> Does anyone know what happens if you are watching the movie AS your 24 hours is up?


Just for kicks I started watching a Netbox movie with only 10 minutes left before the delete was supposed to occur. I received a warning message that the movie would be deleted before I could finish watching it. It was scheduled to delete at 12:09PM and as 12:09PM passed it was deleted as I watched. I had watched it before but I too was curious what would happen.


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

Rude

Very rude.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

I watched an Apple TV demo today. Picture quality sucks but at least it was widescreen 16X9. It's amazing how these guys talk about "DVD quality" . A good new DVd played on a top notch upscaler player can be very close to HD and both Unbox and Apple TV should be talking about "old VHS tape quality" instead. Sometimes I think the whole industry hate us , HD community. They have to spend much more money, we are no more than 15% of the existing public and we can be a real pain when things are not done the right way.

Sergio


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## kas25 (Mar 10, 2003)

slimoli said:


> I watched an Apple TV demo today. Picture quality sucks but at least it was widescreen 16X9. It's amazing how these guys talk about "DVD quality" . A good new DVd played on a top notch upscaler player can be very close to HD and both Unbox and Apple TV should be talking about "old VHS tape quality" instead. Sometimes I think the whole industry hate us , HD community. They have to spend much more money, we are no more than 15% of the existing public and we can be a real pain when things are not done the right way.
> 
> Sergio


I have Apple TV and the picture quality does not "suck". Older content from Itunes may not be great but new content is very good. I am curious to know what you saw on the demo. JPEG quality is great.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

kas25 said:


> I have Apple TV and the picture quality does not "suck". Older content from Itunes may not be great but new content is very good. I am curious to know what you saw on the demo. JPEG quality is great.


I was at an Apple store today. They had 2 small LCD screen showing photos (good quality) and a 52" Sony LCD showing movies. One of the movies, Pirates of Caribbean , was worse than a VHS tape. Look at the Appe TV reviews in the net and you'll find very bad comments about the picture quality. Keep in mind that on a small screen everything looks good.

Sergio


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

This is an honest review, IMO. Look at "video quality". I agree that it's possible that the culprit is the I-Tunes and not Apple TV itself.

Sometimes I think that picture quality is a bit subjective. There are many people who say that Directv SD picture is pretty good and for me is unacceptable. Those are the same guys who also don't recognize the "HD-LITE" .

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/ptech/03/27/apple.tv/index.html

Sergio


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## kas25 (Mar 10, 2003)

slimoli said:


> I was at an Apple store today. They had 2 small LCD screen showing photos (good quality) and a 52" Sony LCD showing movies. One of the movies, Pirates of Caribbean , was worse than a VHS tape. Look at the Appe TV reviews in the net and you'll find very bad comments about the picture quality. Keep in mind that on a small screen everything looks good.
> 
> Sergio


I just exlained that I have one and I have a 60 inch HD tv. The quality is fine (much better than VHS) on newer shows/movies.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

Thanks kas25. I believe you. My opinion was only based on 1 movie at the store and few reviews on the net.I will take another look based on your comments since I find this technology very interesting and I don't think we will see the Unbox the way it should be anytime soon.

Sergio


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