# Next Software Update-When?



## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

When will the "TIVO Premiere" receive the next software Update?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

According to TiVo, the next update is coming in a few weeks.


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## rbienstock (May 8, 2007)

I was on the phone with Tivo support today and they told me that a software update will arrive in a few weeks, followed by a firmware update in the next month or two that will turn on the second core in the dual core processor in the Premiere.


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## Terri (Dec 1, 2004)

You mean only one processor is working on the Premier XL???


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Terri said:


> You mean only one processor is working on the Premier XL???


Yes, only one of the two processor cores is currently enabled. More information in the Prepurchase FAQ stickied at the top of the forum.


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

Is there actually some firmware in the Premiere besides the boot code (ie spin the disk and start reading code from it)? I wouldn't have thought that a firmware update was necessary to shift to two processor mode. Firmware is usually just a different storage device for storing software.

Edit; Unit has 8MB Flash ROM. I'm sure there's a good reason why, but its not obvious to me.


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## i2k (Apr 3, 2008)

hopefully soon......


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## denise1768 (Apr 16, 2010)

rbienstock said:


> I was on the phone with Tivo support today and they told me that a software update will arrive in a few weeks, followed by a firmware update in the next month or two that will turn on the second core in the dual core processor in the Premiere.


I was told the same thing by a very informative tech. hopefully this will help the speed big time.


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## kingkong316 (Jul 13, 2008)

Ok let me ask this.
What is the most current version of the software?


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## jterwelp (Apr 27, 2004)

kingkong316 said:


> Ok let me ask this.
> What is the most current version of the software?


The current version is 14.1c-01-3-746.

According to TiVo, the next software update is due within the next week:
"@cradix Focusing on both. Within a week I expect. Next time you freeze send me email with serial number and date/time of freeze. "
"@TivoDesign - So tired of my Premier freezing! When is the next update coming!? Focusing on freezing, or will performance boost, too? "
- Source: http://twitter.com/tivodesign


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## wp746911 (Feb 19, 2005)

if this enables dual core and fixes the hd lagggg problem I will buy the day it comes out..


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

Should be any day now.


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## avg99 (Apr 13, 2002)

Can't wait using sd menus, only benefit now is 1 cable card. Activate that second core 1st then the software!


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

avg99 said:


> Can't wait using sd menus, only benefit now is 1 cable card. Activate that second core 1st then the software!


How is having 1 cable card a "benefit"? I have been using an HD for 3 years with one multistream card.

It seems to me if people are complaining about bugs, non-HD menus, reboots/freezes/crashing, and slow HD menus (only), activating the second core is the least important step right now. And "activating" the second core is not some magic pill... unless the tivo is already overloaded with multi-threaded tasks AND the UI software is already multi-threaded, then having a second core will make little to no difference.

As long as we are speculating in futility, this seems are more logical approach:

1) Fix rebooting/freezing/crashing
2) Fix other bugs
3) Finish the HD interfaces
4) Optimize the HD interface code
5) Thread the HD and other code
6) Activate second core
( 7) Now release the TiVo Premiere )


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

crxssi said:


> How is having 1 cable card a "benefit"? I have been using an HD for 3 years with one multi-stream card.
> 
> It seems to me if people are complaining about bugs, non-HD menus, reboots/freezes/crashing, and slow HD menus (only), activating the second core is the least important step right now. And "activating" the second core is not some magic pill... unless the TiVo is already overloaded with multi-threaded tasks AND the UI software is already multi-threaded, then having a second core will make little to no difference.
> 
> ...


Actually, activating the second core may reduce reliability without significantly increasing performance.

1) Multi-threaded apps are complicated and difficult to debug.

2) The slow menu are likely a problem with flash or the way it is being used.
There are probably way to many calls.

3) The images are likely slow because they are being retrieved from the network with no caching. It may be from disk IO, but that is less likely.

This suggests, streamlining the use of flash and caching images would be a much better way to get the performance up. If you are I/O bound, adding cores is useless.

- Rich


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## Am_I_Evil (Apr 7, 2009)

crxssi said:


> How is having 1 cable card a "benefit"?


its cheaper


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Am_I_Evil said:


> its cheaper


But he was acting as if you can't use a single M card "before", which you CAN in the HD.... Since he wasn't listing what he was comparing to, I was being facetious


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

RichB said:


> Actually, activating the second core may reduce reliability without significantly increasing performance.
> 
> 1) Multi-threaded apps are complicated and difficult to debug.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything you just said. I doubt the TiVo is I/O bound, though... unless it starts swapping or something due to low RAM and horribly bloated HDUI Flash stuff (does the TiVo even have a swap partition or file?)


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

crxssi said:


> I agree with everything you just said. I doubt the TiVo is I/O bound, though... unless it starts swapping or something due to low RAM and horribly bloated HDUI Flash stuff (does the TiVo even have a swap partition or file?)


It might be disk I/O but it also might be network bound to get images etc.
Trips across the net have a huge latency compared to anything local.

- Rich


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

RichB said:


> It might be disk I/O but it also might be network bound to get images etc.
> Trips across the net have a huge latency compared to anything local.
> 
> - Rich


I have said it before and i will say it again, the user experience should not depend so much on the Internet connection any user may have, as TiVo has no control over that connection. I think caching as much as possible and never wait for an Internet response for pictures, if they come on great if not so what don't make the user wait for them.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

lessd said:


> I have said it before and i will say it again, the user experience should not depend so much on the Internet connection any user may have, as TiVo has no control over that connection. I think caching as much as possible and never wait for an Internet response for pictures, if they come on great if not so what don't make the user wait for them.


Make sense to me.
I have no idea what this box is doing when I hit play.
It takes about 5 seconds to start playing and nothing is being displayed.

- Rich


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

RichB said:


> Make sense to me.
> I have no idea what this box is doing when I hit play.
> It takes about 5 seconds to start playing and nothing is being displayed.
> 
> - Rich


Hopefully your TiVo is not xmitting the data of what your trying to watch in real time to whoever.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

lessd said:


> Hopefully your TiVo is not xmitting the data of what your trying to watch in real time to whoever.


Realtime or stored, it is still spying.
Either way, it should be a background task and not delay the user experience.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I opted in years ago to enable them to monitor my program watching on my TiVos..


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

The dual core was enabled back in 14.1a version. I think they turned it off as the reason for most freezes.

They really should cache all images retrieved for the top menu display and everywhere else they use pictures.

This machine is just way too slow because of internet content requirements. Grab the pictures and save them! Comeon...That Computer browsing 101.

Phil


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

lessd said:


> Hopefully your TiVo is not xmitting the data of what your trying to watch in real time to whoever.





crxssi said:


> Realtime or stored, it is still spying.
> Either way, it should be a background task and not delay the user experience.


everything is put in logs and the logs are sent during the guide update call. there is no delay due to info on what you are watching


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

ZeoTiVo said:


> everything is put in logs and the logs are sent during the guide update call. there is no delay due to info on what you are watching


And you know this because....


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

lessd said:


> And you know this because....


because that is how it is done and that has been confirmed by hackers sniffing the wires to see what TiVo does do. Does TiVo sell real time data? Not that I have seen.

So what do you have to back up your speculation?


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

ZeoTiVo said:


> because that is how it is done and that has been confirmed by hackers sniffing the wires to see what TiVo does do. Does TiVo sell real time data? Not that I have seen.
> 
> So what do you have to back up your speculation?


Having had a 'hacked' tivo tivohd, I can confirm that the viewing/customer stuff is stored in a log file that it shipped to tivo upon guide/software update.

It is stored in /var/log


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## cranbers (Apr 2, 2010)

aaronwt said:


> I opted in years ago to enable them to monitor my program watching on my TiVos..


I don't understand, why do you have so many tivo's? Are you some sort of a bed and breakfast owner? Are you running some kind of pirating operation? How can you vouch, all (inserter however many you have here) tivo premiere's are so wonderful? Unless it s your job to watch/screen tv, on that many tivo's. You can't say they are great and wonderful with no lock ups, I know at least 4 of them lock up regularly, they just reboot on their own.

Some people troll the forum to blast tivo and the premiere, you troll them to defend tivo and your premiere's like a knight in shining armor. It's weird.


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## cranbers (Apr 2, 2010)

philhu said:


> The dual core was enabled back in 14.1a version. I think they turned it off as the reason for most freezes.
> 
> They really should cache all images retrieved for the top menu display and everywhere else they use pictures.
> 
> ...


OH so that was their reason for the c version, couldn't see any changes at all, not even with lock ups, and that proves the multiple core's wasnt the reason for crashes. Since eh, there they still crashing.

Back to the drawing board.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

philhu said:


> This machine is just way too slow because of internet content requirements. Grab the pictures and save them! Comeon...That Computer browsing 101.


Seriously?? Someone please tell me the thing isn't downloading content every time it draws a menu. That would be really foolish for an appliance (would I use my toaster if it had to download a picture of toast every time I pushed the 'on' button?).

What content is it having to download? The little show preview images? Those would be trivial to cache and would be top on the list of priorities of anyone designing the system.

Are you sure it's not lag due to having to fetch the images off disk and display them in flash? Perhaps an inefficiency in the retrieval process.

I just can't believe it's having to download dynamic content in order to display menus. Something doesn't sound right about that.


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

smbaker said:


> Seriously?? Someone please tell me the thing isn't downloading content every time it draws a menu. That would be really foolish for an appliance (would I use my toaster if it had to download a picture of toast every time I pushed the 'on' button?).
> 
> What content is it having to download? The little show preview images? Those would be trivial to cache and would be top on the list of priorities of anyone designing the system.
> 
> ...


Yes, really. They do not cache anything. There was a big discussion. They could throw a 30 MEG folder at it for caching. Heck, they DO had a big hard disk in there! They reload EVERYTHING all the time.

They should cache show images, and anything that is on a screen you go back to from another screen. Watching it redraw is painful. Watching it redraw page by page, your show list is awful. I have a Premiere Tivo with about 700G in use (thank you weaknees), and it takes 10-12 SECONDS to go to the next or previous page in the 'Now showing'. The SDUI takes 1/2 second or so. So, it has to be reloading internet crap and loading up the flash pages.

I was told that the system was ALWAYS designed to use the dual core, which is why when using single core, like now, it is very slow.

Tivo has taken 4 YEARS to get to this machine. Hardware is a winner, but who do they have programming? 4 years for 1.5 levels of new menus that point into the old ones any further down in the system?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

ZeoTiVo said:


> because that is how it is done and that has been confirmed by hackers sniffing the wires to see what TiVo does do. Does TiVo sell real time data? Not that I have seen.
> 
> So what do you have to back up your speculation?


Not a thing just trying to understand (speculate) on why the TP/TPXL is so slow, I know the TiVos before the Series 4 used logs, but do you or anybody else know (outside of TiVo) that the Series 4 does the same thing with user data?


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## Monty2_2001 (Aug 6, 2005)

philhu said:


> I was told that the system was ALWAYS designed to use the dual core, which is why when using single core, like now, it is very slow.
> 
> Tivo has taken 4 YEARS to get to this machine. Hardware is a winner, but who do they have programming? 4 years for 1.5 levels of new menus that point into the old ones any further down in the system?


I smell offshoring, bigtime. It ruins companies in the medium to long term, but sure makes those next month quarters look great!


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## paladin732 (Nov 4, 2002)

So, I checked and noticed I had pending restart...

So I forced the restart, and it restarted 6 times before fully booting

New version is:

14.4-01-3-746


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## DaveWhittle (Jul 25, 2002)

paladin732 said:


> So, I checked and noticed I had pending restart...
> 
> So I forced the restart, and it restarted 6 times before fully booting
> 
> ...


For real?  What's different/new/changed?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I just forced a connection on three of my boxes, but it doesn't show "pending restart" so I didn't get any new software updates on them.


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## johnner1999 (Oct 26, 2002)

so new rev is out "d"?


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## jwcooper (Dec 15, 2005)

I can confirm the 'pending restart'. My box is now coming back up from a reboot. I forced the connection to get the update.

I'm now running 14.4-01-3-746 as well.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Maybe I'll get it when they connect tomorrow. I'll have to remember to check tomorrow night when I get home.


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## DaveWhittle (Jul 25, 2002)

jwcooper said:


> I can confirm the 'pending restart'. My box is now coming back up from a reboot. I forced the connection to get the update.
> 
> I'm now running 14.4-01-3-746 as well.


Anything different? Faster, more HD menues..?


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## jwcooper (Dec 15, 2005)

I can't tell much of a difference yet.

What I can confirm is:
No HD UI for Netflix.
No HD UI for Amazon.
No HD UI for Blockbuster.
No HD UI for Youtube.

No Pandora in Music & Photos

HD Menu Software Version: 1-1/2010.04.30-1720. So it was updated, but I haven't found the changes in the 5 minutes I've checked.

It does seem to flip between the HD, and Standard menus quicker now, and the HD Menu does seem faster.


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## DaveWhittle (Jul 25, 2002)

Sounds like this update is another performance and stability update. Which I'm happy to have, but was kinda hoping for some more HD goodness.


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## jwcooper (Dec 15, 2005)

This seems like a definite bug fix/speed fix, and not a feature update. I can't find a single menu that has been upgraded to HD, but maybe I'm missing something.

Pressing play on a recorded show in the HD menu nearly instantly loads the show now. It used to take up to 2-5 seconds to load up the show. Alternately, hitting the tivo button while watching a recorded show might be quicker too.

Noticed there is one advertisement in the discovery bar for Taylor Made. Not sure if there has been any ads up there before, but wasn't really looking for them either.


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## deandashl (Aug 8, 2008)

At this rate, I think you're looking at another 3 updates for a decent sort-of OK beta. Also, depends if they get some more screens going.

Maybe 2 1/2 to 3 more months before I would consider releasing the Premiere for sale to the public.


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## LoREvanescence (Jun 19, 2007)

jwcooper said:


> Noticed there is one advertisement in the discovery bar for Taylor Made. Not sure if there has been any ads up there before, but wasn't really looking for them either.


Yes, they have been there. If you go to the discovery bar settings, they actually let you pick the options (Less, Standard, More) for advertisements. By default it's on standard.


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## gamo62 (Oct 12, 2002)

I was hopeful that this update would be the one to entice me to try the PXL again. Appears that I will be waiting until that happens.


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## cranbers (Apr 2, 2010)

jwcooper said:


> This seems like a definite bug fix/speed fix, and not a feature update. I can't find a single menu that has been upgraded to HD, but maybe I'm missing something.
> 
> Pressing play on a recorded show in the HD menu nearly instantly loads the show now. It used to take up to 2-5 seconds to load up the show. Alternately, hitting the tivo button while watching a recorded show might be quicker too.
> 
> Noticed there is one advertisement in the discovery bar for Taylor Made. Not sure if there has been any ads up there before, but wasn't really looking for them either.


Awesome, im happy to hear there is an update, and there is some actual performance improvements.

Guess I will streatch out the HD interface legs again and see how it works.


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## paladin732 (Nov 4, 2002)

yea, all I am noticing is speed improvements... I want some more HD menu goodness!!!!

Its still crappy speed, so I'm still using the SD Menus, which perform insanely fast


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## johnner1999 (Oct 26, 2002)

all I know is if my tivo's reboot tonight during LOST; my wife will kill me LOL 

that being said - my two S4 boxes are running FAST with SD menus (still on C)


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

They should reboot automatically around 2AM if there is a "pending restart" If there is a recording scheduled during that time it should not be restarting.


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## Jimbo713 (Dec 25, 2001)

I have to get home today to verify this - but this is a real update we're talking about, right?


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## Rebate_King (Nov 10, 2004)

Jimbo713 said:


> I have to get home today to verify this - but this is a real update we're talking about, right?


Yes


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## cica (Apr 2, 2002)

I got a rock


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## angel35 (Nov 5, 2004)

I just got the update 14-4-01-3-748. I dont know what it does yet ILL try some things and see what will happen??


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## andrewl570 (Apr 7, 2010)

Is the 2nd core enabled yet? Does this update speed up the HD menus at all?


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

No "Pending Restart"


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

They must be rolling it out slowly.


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## rocko (Oct 29, 2002)

I'm pulling down something now that's taking forrrrrrever - wanna bet it's the update?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

the downloads are always very quick for me, it's the load part that takes forever.


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## rocko (Oct 29, 2002)

Well, I would have lost that bet. No pending restart for me.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> They must be rolling it out slowly.


Found this in the TiVo HD forum from TiVo Jerry:



> Yes, 11.0f is indeed a bug fix release and contains no new features. It is still in the Customer Support Ramp phase where we release to a fixed number of units and evaluate the impact to our call centers. Once that period ends, we usually determine that we can release to all boxes at full speed. If you don't have it now, you won't get it until the full rollout begins....and that doesn't take too long.


I imagine it's the same rollout process for 14.4-01-3-746...


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

where do you see this "pending restart" status?


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## Archipelagos (Mar 26, 2010)

I usually check Messages & Settings > Settings > Network & Phone and it's under "Last status:"


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## Jimbo713 (Dec 25, 2001)

Is there a geographic pattern associated to this rollout?


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## DaveWhittle (Jul 25, 2002)

No pending here, either.

Ironically, it DID lock up at TiVo Central after checking the version number.  It hasn't done that to me since the "c" update.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Jimbo713 said:


> Is there a geographic pattern associated to this rollout?


TiVo rolls out the software updates to a few (some %) TiVos of a given series and than has a one week wait to see if any bad things happen to the people who got the update, if all is OK then the roll out goes to all.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

I've been using the SDUI on our Premiere XL for a while now but with all of this update talk I just switched back to the HDUI to have a look. BTW I haven't received the update yet (still on v14.1c) but I did notice something different...I think. As I scroll through "My Shows" I am able to move quickly (both up and down) through the recordings list...almost instantly. If I stop on a recording then the graphic appears. IIRC (and I'm sure I complained about it) there was considerable latency moving between recordings due to the associated graphics being downloaded each time. Wasn't that the case or am I losing it? It's as if they changed the programming to only download the image when you've stopped scrolling. it also seems like the lag time between hitting "Play" and actual playback is much shorter, as reported with the latest update.  

I'll try to force a couple of connections to see if I'm one of the chosen few to receive the next update. I'm encouraged by the positive responses...thanks for the posts! :up:


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

richsadams said:


> I've been using the SDUI on our Premiere XL for a while now but with all of this update talk I just switched back to the HDUI to have a look. BTW I haven't received the update yet (still on v14.1c) but I did notice something different...I think. As I scroll through "My Shows" I am able to move quickly (both up and down) through the recordings list...almost instantly. If I stop on a recording then the graphic appears. IIRC (and I'm sure I complained about it) there was considerable latency moving between recordings due to the associated graphics being downloaded each time. Wasn't that the case or am I losing it? It's as if they changed the programming to only download the image when you've stopped scrolling. it also seems like the lag time between hitting "Play" and actual playback is much shorter, as reported with the latest update.
> 
> I'll try to force a couple of connections to see if I'm one of the chosen few to receive the next update. I'm encouraged by the positive responses...thanks for the posts! :up:


This is how it works with my Premieres. Up and down very quickly. I'm still on 14.1c also.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> This is how it works with my Premieres. Up and down very quickly. I'm still on 14.1c also.


Hmmm...seems like it was really sluggish the last time I looked, but it's been a while...and sometimes my memory isn't what it used to be.  Can't wait for my Replay update...d'oh!


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## andrewl570 (Apr 7, 2010)

Any news on when the next software update is due or when the second core will be enabled?


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I dont believe they have announced any updates since the May update.


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## cica (Apr 2, 2002)

Not to be a downer, but weren't we given the impression that there would be an April update and a May update and that HD menus would be fully functional and we'd have a Tivo operating at 100%?


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

cica said:


> Not to be a downer, but weren't we given the impression that there would be an April update and a May update and that HD menus would be fully functional and we'd have a Tivo operating at 100%?


Not that I remember. They have never given a completion date. They just mentioned they had patches coming.


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## rocko (Oct 29, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> Not that I remember. They have never given a completion date. They just mentioned they had patches coming.


+1. Even _if _that was their intention they'd *never* commit to a date.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

andrewl570 said:


> Any news on when the next software update is due or when the second core will be enabled?


How long has 14.4 been available? I wouldn't expect a weekly software update...


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

orangeboy said:


> How long has 14.4 been available? I wouldn't expect a weekly software update...


It looks like it started rolling out about a month ago.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

they did say there would be 2 updates. Was 14.4 the second? or the first?


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## rocko (Oct 29, 2002)

Mike-Mike said:


> they did say there would be 2 updates. Was 14.4 the second? or the first?


There are sure to be many more than 2 updates. No one knows when they happen or what they will consist of. They will happen when they happen.

So everyone relax.


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## suzook (Oct 22, 2006)

well they promised us facebook and pandora soon, so mayb that will be the nexy update. The thing that bothers me, is why tell us about these features months before they are released? They tell us soon, Is soon 4 or 5 mos?


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

suzook said:


> well they promised us facebook and pandora soon


Well, I would hope they would work on nothing but stability, speed, and HD menus. Everything else is meaningless without those. I suspect they would agree, so additional features might be far away from "soon" (unless by "soon" you are thinking next year).


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

crxssi said:


> Well, I would hope they would work on nothing but stability, speed, and HD menus. Everything else is meaningless without those. I suspect they would agree, so additional features might be far away from "soon" (unless by "soon" you are thinking next year).


First things first: Find new places to stuff ads. 

- Rich


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

Mike-Mike said:


> they did say there would be 2 updates. Was 14.4 the second? or the first?


14.4 was technically the second. Factory delivered release is unknown. At Guided Setup time, the Premiere downloaded and installed 14.1, which apparently was pretty buggy. That's why 14.4 came out so fast.


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## sdzc (Sep 4, 2005)

First identified freeze today using the HS menus on 14.4. According to my son, the screen went black and he had to pull the power cord.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

suzook said:


> well they promised us facebook and pandora soon, so mayb that will be the nexy update. The thing that bothers me, is why tell us about these features months before they are released? They tell us soon, Is soon 4 or 5 mos?


Have you tried to buy a Boxee box recently? When was it that they announced their product to the World again? When is it that they now say the first boxes will go on sale!?


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

RichB said:


> First things first: Find new places to stuff ads.
> 
> - Rich


Yes please! It's fun seeing people blow fuses in here when they rant about the innocuous ads that already appear.


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## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

TrueTurbo said:


> Yes please! It's fun seeing people blow fuses in here when they rant about the innocuous ads that already appear.


I don't have a problem with ads (Providing they don't actually get in the way of seeing what's on screen either during playback, fast forwarding, or rewinding-when I actually need to see what's on the screen), but honestly, ads should come *AFTER* fixing these bugs and getting all menus in HD. The Premiere is *NOT* a finished product, and taking time to code in ads should come after it is a complete product.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

kturcotte said:


> I don't have a problem with ads (Providing they don't actually get in the way of seeing what's on screen either during playback, fast forwarding, or rewinding-when I actually need to see what's on the screen), but honestly, ads should come *AFTER* fixing these bugs and getting all menus in HD. The Premiere is *NOT* a finished product, and taking time to code in ads should come after it is a complete product.


I'd be willing to wager that TiVo management had the engineers working on code for ads LONG before the box was released to the public...


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

TrueTurbo said:


> Yes please! It's fun seeing people blow fuses in here when they rant about the innocuous ads that already appear.


More virtual fiddling (think Rome) 

- Rich


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## andrewl570 (Apr 7, 2010)

crxssi said:


> Well, I would hope they would work on nothing but stability, speed, and HD menus. Everything else is meaningless without those. I suspect they would agree, so additional features might be far away from "soon" (unless by "soon" you are thinking next year).


I'd agree that stablity, speed, and HD menus are the most important; everything else is meaningless... however they did release the Premiere as is. I do love the HD menus but the speed is not acceptable.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

kturcotte said:


> The Premiere is *NOT* a finished product, and taking time to code in ads should come after it is a complete product.





andrewl570 said:


> I'd agree that stablity, speed, and HD menus are the most important; everything else is meaningless... however they did release the Premiere as is. I do love the HD menus but the speed is not acceptable.


+1 :up:


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## sghrush (Mar 8, 2005)

andrewl570 said:


> I'd agree that stablity, speed, and HD menus are the most important; everything else is meaningless... however they did release the Premiere as is. I do love the HD menus but the speed is not acceptable.


Exactly. I'm sure Tivo has to be embarrassed.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

andrewl570 said:


> I'd agree that stablity, speed, and HD menus are the most important; everything else is meaningless...


What % of Tivo Premiere's SW in your opinion is a waste of time? The pause ads was already added long time ago in THD/S3's SW. The new ad in the HD menu occupies 1/5 of the slide show bar on top. Is that what's been holding Tivo back from developing more awesome features? That must've been heck of a tricky thing to code!

To me the latest version of HD menu is starting to be tolerable. I'm still glad they released it, instead of keep it in the oven for another quarter.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

yunlin12 said:


> To me the latest version of HD menu is starting to be tolerable. I'm still glad they released it, instead of keep it in the oven for another quarter.


I do like the HD menus, they look great, but they are still just too slow and clunky IMO. Plus having to switch between HD and SD menus to perform certain tasks makes it feel very half-baked. The television show graphics in the My Recordings menu are nice, but I'd sacrifice them in a heartbeat if it would speed things up. Same goes for the suggestion graphics across the top. I also like the "live" video window when accessing the menus, but it's still buggy and slows things down.

There are just too many issues for me to really enjoy our Premiere XL. It's really too bad because I pre-ordered and had high hopes for it. It's been months now without much of an improvement. I moved it to my office and put our Series3 back to full-time service in our family room. I have the Premiere running on SD menus until TiVo gets things sorted out which I hope/think they will. However for now the Premiere XL is a disappointment.


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## JimboG (May 27, 2007)

The Tivo Premiere exhibited lackluster performance during the "inventing the DVR was just a warmup" press event. Sadly, Tivo claimed that the poor performance was due to "network connectivity" problems at the press event. This was disingenuous at the very least. Some might call it an outright lie.

Once the Tivo Premiere was released commercially most of the reviewers noted that the performance was pretty weak. Engadget, CNET, Dave Zatz and others pointed out that the new Tivo Premiere was laggy and not ready for prime time. Even the most pro-Tivo reviewers had serious reservations.

Here we are four years after the Tivo Series 3 and three months after the public demonstrations of the Tivo Premiere. There have been a couple new software releases, but the performance and HD menus still aren't ready for primetime. Where did all of the R&D funds go? What is Tivo doing to fix this product release?


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

richsadams said:


> I moved it to my office and put our Series3 back to full-time service in our family room. I have the Premiere running on SD menus until TiVo gets things sorted out which I hope/think they will. However for now the Premiere XL is a disappointment.


I have a THD also before I got my PXL, I also got it when it 1st came out. I don't understand why you would prefer the THD/S3 over the PXL. In the worst case use the PXL in the SD mode, and it's still as good, if not faster than the THD/S3, is a better looking box, has extra goodies like USB keyboard. Yes the PXL is not where it could be yet, but to me it's not in any way shape or form a step back from THD/S3.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

JimboG said:


> Here we are four years after the Tivo Series 3 and three months after the public demonstrations of the Tivo Premiere. There have been a couple new software releases, but the performance and HD menus still aren't ready for primetime. Where did all of the R&D funds go? What is Tivo doing to fix this product release?


Not much besides Netflix, Amazon VOD, Tivo Search, single-handed (and continuing) fight against entire cable industry to get tuning adaptor, Comcast Tivo port, RCN Tivo, work-in-progress new DTivo, Virgin Tivo.

How dare they not produce like Apple had, being a 500 person company!?


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## sghrush (Mar 8, 2005)

yunlin12 said:


> How dare they not produce like Apple had, being a 500 person company!?


Right on!


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## deandashl (Aug 8, 2008)

yunlin12 said:


> Not much besides Netflix, Amazon VOD, Tivo Search, single-handed (and continuing) fight against entire cable industry to get tuning adaptor, Comcast Tivo port, RCN Tivo, work-in-progress new DTivo, Virgin Tivo.
> 
> How dare they not produce like Apple had, being a 500 person company!?


Nobody is asking TiVo to be like Apple. Not even close.

TiVo is NOT "taking on" the cable industry. If they were, they would have actually ADDED features to the Premieres, not just basic HW and SW updates. Fight the cable DVR industry through strength NOT mediocrity.

Would any "TiVo defenders" have said that the DirecTV TiVo would take 2 years (or more?) to get out? With the crappy S3 UI? I doubt it.

TWO YEARS!!! Oh my God!!! TWO YEARS!!!!! and TiVo can't get a DVR out? (will it be three? It could you know.)

RCN TiVo. A Premiere with the RCN logo in the corner, add RCN VoD and turn off the better VOD. WoW! Tough. Real stretch here. AND old UI again.

Comcast TiVo port. LOL!!!!!! LOL!!!!! That's not me, that's the executives at Comcast laughing at TiVo. Suckers. No lawsuits, and a handful of subscriptions after more than 3 years of development. Can't get out of a handful of cities. SAD. Total waste of time and money.

Almost 4 (that's FOUR) years now after the S3. No 3rd tuner, no extenders, no built-in wireless, new remote not finished. Release the Premiere and they can barely finish a handful of menu's. 3 months later and............well, it's a little faster and reliable. No new menu's done, or new features, or 2nd core turned on........

Yup any more hard work and TiVo would be like Apple. Yup.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

deandashl said:


> Nobody is asking TiVo to be like Apple. Not even close.
> 
> TiVo is NOT "taking on" the cable industry. If they were, they would have... yada, yada, moan, *****, harrumph!


Why do you people do this to yourselves!? If TiVo pisses you off this much, just get rid of the damned things and try something else. Those stomach ulcers you're all developing would appreciate the relief.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

TrueTurbo said:


> Why do you people do this to yourselves!? If TiVo pisses you off this much, just get rid of the damned things and try something else. Those stomach ulcers you're all developing would appreciate the relief.


I suppose it is like your home Team. People want them to get rid of the crappy players and coaches so they can win again.

I live in MA. Basically, you are saying, what is your problem? Just become a Yankee's fan. 

Many of us want TiVo to produce the DVR they advertised. 
There is obviously incompetence in the company. I can say that and still sleep at night. 

- Rich

P.S. It is 5:18AM, TiVo did not keep me up, the cat needed to go out


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

TrueTurbo said:


> Why do you people do this to yourselves!? If TiVo pisses you off this much, just get rid of the damned things and try something else. Those stomach ulcers you're all developing would appreciate the relief.


+1


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

RichB said:


> I suppose it is like your home Team. People want them to get rid of the crappy players and coaches so they can win again. Many of us want TiVo to produce the DVR they advertised


This is how I feel also. I *like* TiVo. I *like* their UI (prior to this HD stuff). There isn't that much in the way of competition in the non-cable company arena. We know they can do better and we want them to, so we can upgrade to the Premiere (those of us still waiting for a good product, like I am) or be happy with the one we have. We want to be able to recommend it to friends and family.

For many of us, our choice comes down to a crappy cable company DVR, an unknown third-party DVR, or an incomplete & possibly unreliable TiVo Premiere (or to stay with what we have). I want it to be a no brainer.... TiVo!!!


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

yunlin12 said:


> I have a THD also before I got my PXL, I also got it when it 1st came out. I don't understand why you would prefer the THD/S3 over the PXL. In the worst case use the PXL in the SD mode, and it's still as good, if not faster than the THD/S3, is a better looking box, has extra goodies like USB keyboard. Yes the PXL is not where it could be yet, but to me it's not in any way shape or form a step back from THD/S3.


You're talking apples (TiVo HD) and I'm talking oranges (TiVo Series3). IMO the TiVo HD never measured up to the Series3 either. Our Series3 outperformed our TiVo HD in most respects as well. I really don't care too much about the appearance but I agree, the Premiere looks better than the TiVo HD. However by comparison the Series3 is still much better looking than either one IMHO. The S3 has a much more expensive looking enclosure (it should, it cost more than twice as much!) plus it has an OLED readout, clock, etc. instead of the little red and green circles found on the Premiere. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder of course.

The reason I moved the Premiere out of "prime time" service is to be able to have it on my desk where I have a second monitor for my iMac which doubles as a TV. I can easily have a look at what the Premiere is doing with respect to settings, performance, etc., w/o having to go downstairs and into another room to get to it.

Agreed, in SD menu mode the Premiere works about as fast as the Series3 so it's just a matter of convenience.


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## tanoanian (Nov 1, 2003)

Last I checked turboman complaining about the TiVo premiere is a Constitutionally protected right. Guess you'll just have to deal with it...


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

tanoanian said:


> Last I checked turboman complaining about the TiVo premiere is a Constitutionally protected right. Guess you'll just have to deal with it...


Just as you'll have to deal with turboman's Constitutionally protected right to complain about complainers. Or doesn't it work that way?


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## _Ryan_ (Apr 4, 2010)

tanoanian said:


> Last I checked turboman complaining about the TiVo premiere is a Constitutionally protected right. Guess you'll just have to deal with it...





orangeboy said:


> Just as you'll have to deal with turboman's Constitutionally protected right to complain about complainers. Or doesn't it work that way?


Actually... the first amendment is not implicated at all here. The first amendment only protects citizens against government conduct that inhibits a citizen's right to free speech. Since TiVo Community Forums is not a government actor, nor are they acting at the direction of or under the control of the government, they can censor all they want without infringing anyone's first amendment rights.

In fact, my post and the two I quoted are pretty off-topic, and are probably good candidates for censoring.

Back on topic:

No idea when the next update will be. Still eagerly waiting/hoping for an update that adjusts the demodulator settings to get OTA signal performance back on par with the S3.


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## JimboG (May 27, 2007)

_Ryan_ said:


> Actually... the first amendment is not implicated at all here. The first amendment only protects citizens against government conduct that inhibits a citizen's right to free speech. Since TiVo Community Forums is not a government actor, nor are they acting at the direction of or under the control of the government, they can censor all they want without infringing anyone's first amendment rights.
> 
> In fact, my post and the two I quoted are pretty off-topic, and are probably good candidates for censoring.


Oh, you were _so close_ until this second paragraph. Censorship is state action. Moderating a forum may annoy some forum readers, but it is not state action and therefor is not censorship.

We now return to unmitigated complaining that the TiVo Premiere software doesn't work well enough yet.


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## _Ryan_ (Apr 4, 2010)

JimboG said:


> Oh, you were _so close_ until this second paragraph. Censorship is state action. Moderating a forum may annoy some forum readers, but it is not state action and therefor is not censorship.


Haha, I love it. Actually, I was just using "censor" as a verb meaning "to suppress or delete as objectionable." It doesn't need to be the government doing it, in fact, speakers can self-censor. You're right, though, it's often used to refer to a prior restraint on speech by a government body.

It's interesting how many people are under the false impression that the first amendment applies to conduct by private parties or speech on private property...

I apologize to all for this con law detour. Forum moderators, feel free to remove this post without worrying about implicating the first amendment.


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## weaknees (May 11, 2001)

_Ryan_ said:


> Haha, I love it. Actually, I was just using "censor" as a verb meaning "to suppress or delete as objectionable." It doesn't need to be the government doing it, in fact, speakers can self-censor. You're right, though, it's often used to refer to a prior restraint on speech by a government body.
> 
> It's interesting how many people are under the false impression that the first amendment applies to conduct by private parties or speech on private property...
> 
> I apologize to all for this con law detour. Forum moderators, feel free to remove this post without worrying about implicating the first amendment.


I think you're looking for "censure" here.


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## deandashl (Aug 8, 2008)

TrueTurbo said:


> Why do you people do this to yourselves!? If TiVo pisses you off this much, just get rid of the damned things and try something else. Those stomach ulcers you're all developing would appreciate the relief.


If you can't defend the product, then demonize the person. Anyway, who is REALLY concerned about the posts in this forum? and most defensive?

As the Titanic was sinking some were dancing in the ballroom, while others were trying to save the ship.

I guess I'd rather be the one who discusses the problems of TiVo, it's products and it's shrinking revenue and subscriptions - than applaud TiVo as it gradually disappears and becomes irrelevant.

Who is the REAL fan of TiVo, the one who wants TiVo to succeed? or the one who accepts TiVo's gradual death with a smile and a "wasn't that great"?

I guess if TiVo goes away then you can become a fan of another product and post on that product's forum. Is it that easy for some people?


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

deandashl said:


> If you can't defend the product, then demonize the person. Anyway, who is REALLY concerned about the posts in this forum? and most defensive?
> 
> As the Titanic was sinking some were dancing in the ballroom, while others were trying to save the ship.
> 
> ...


If you think you're a 'REAL fan' and are 'saving TiVo' by inciting descent in this Forum, you are delusional. If you think TiVo is a sinking ship then by all means, take my seat in the life boat. I think I'll hang around a little longer and listen to the string quartet play. They are quite good you know. 

I'm pretty sure I'll still be around enjoying my TiVos long after you've finally convinced yourself that TiVo is dead through self inflicted wounds and have moved on to greener pastures.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

TrueTurbo said:


> If you think you're a 'REAL fan' and are 'saving TiVo' by inciting descent in this Forum, you are delusional. If you think TiVo is a sinking ship then by all means, take my seat in the life boat. I think I'll hang around a little longer and listen to the string quartet play. They are quite good you know.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I'll still be around enjoying my TiVos long after you've finally convinced yourself that TiVo is dead through self inflicted wounds and have moved on to greener pastures.


Those who complain about an incomplete poorly performing design speak are stating the obvious. It is too bad that TiVo did not take a look in the mirror over a year ago when they clearly knew (or should have known) they had a problem.

The fact that the product video posted was a slide-show is proof that they knew it was not a silk purse.

Since you and other tell us what we should do with our TiVo's and opinions, I suggest you close your eyes and keep scrolling.

- Rich


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

RichB said:


> Since you and other tell us what we should do with our TiVo's and opinions, I suggest you close your eyes and keep scrolling.


Naw, I need my eyes open to actually 'use' my TiVo. The Premiere does actually work pretty damned well for the most part. It has flaws which I believe will get fixed over time, but the rabid hate peddled in this forum would make you think that the Premiere is a steaming pile of ****! It isn't! Far from it and if you can't see that and choose to dwell on nothing but the negative aspects, I really do pity you.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

TrueTurbo said:


> Naw, I need my eyes open to actually 'use' my TiVo. The Premiere does actually work pretty damned well for the most part. It has flaws which I believe will get fixed over time, but the rabid hate peddled in this forum would make you think that the Premiere is a steaming pile of ****! It isn't! Far from it and if you can't see that and choose to dwell on nothing but the negative aspects, I really do pity you.


Your pity is not required nor requested.

See you do not like be told what to do either. I think I proved my point.

Here is another try. In order for TiVo to have released this product, they must have been quite capable of ignoring its faults and the wishes of the competent within their company.

Perhaps they will wake up when faced with an underwhelmed reception in the marketplace. Then again, with booster like you, perhaps not. 

- Rich


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## Goldwing2001 (Sep 30, 2006)

Have I mentioned....I've had the Premeire XL since day one and do not have any complaints. I look forward to future software updates adding more HD menus and Pandora access. :up:

Sincerely,
Tony


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

RichB said:


> I suppose it is like your home Team. People want them to get rid of the crappy players and coaches so they can win again.
> 
> I live in MA. Basically, you are saying, what is your problem? Just become a Yankee's fan.
> 
> ...


I could not possibly agree more Rich, this hits it on the head fully.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

Goldwing2001 said:


> Have I mentioned....I've had the Premeire XL since day one and do not have any complaints. I look forward to future software updates adding more HD menus and Pandora access. :up:
> 
> Sincerely,
> Tony


Nice to hear a positive comment! Please keep posting. It's a refreshing change from wading through the endless dross from the die-hard whiners.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

RichB said:


> Your pity is not required nor requested.


Then I withdraw my pity. Enjoy your miserable TiVo experience. You've earned it. 



RichB said:


> See you do not like be told what to do either. I think I proved my point.


Of course nobody likes being told what to do, but if people are willing to listen, they sometimes learn something. Your mileage may vary, though. 

Trying to find useful information in this forum is getting harder and harder with all the negative crap that people rant about. We need more posts from those who are not having problems with their Premieres. There are plenty of people out there without problems. They just get frightened away by the Trolls and Ogres who hang around in here!


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## tanoanian (Nov 1, 2003)

So people that are having problems and need help shouldn't post here?

What is it you used to say? ooops epic fail! lol


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## Robert2413 (Feb 1, 2008)

richsadams said:


> The reason I moved the Premiere out of "prime time" service is to be able to have it on my desk where I have a second monitor for my iMac which doubles as a TV. I can easily have a look at what the Premiere is doing with respect to settings, performance, etc., w/o having to go downstairs and into another room to get to it.
> 
> Agreed, in SD menu mode the Premiere works about as fast as the Series3 so it's just a matter of convenience.


I'm running my PXL in classic mode and my impression is that it is substantially faster than my S3 and just as reliable. My only problems have been with its HDMI impementation (much touchier than the S3's) and the bizarrely poor performance of the OTA tuner, causing me to lose most of my off-air channels.

What I like about the PXL over the S3 in addition to the speed is the ability to use a wireless keyboard to enter searches and season passes. I bought one of the micro-keyboards from Hong Kong (discussed elsewhere on this board) and it works like a champ.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

TrueTurbo said:


> Then I withdraw my pity. Enjoy your miserable TiVo experience. You've earned it.
> 
> Of course nobody likes being told what to do, but if people are willing to listen, they sometimes learn something. Your mileage may vary, though.
> 
> Trying to find useful information in this forum is getting harder and harder with all the negative crap that people rant about. We need more posts from those who are not having problems with their Premieres. There are plenty of people out there without problems. They just get frightened away by the Trolls and Ogres who hang around in here!


For a moment there, I thought I was talking to an adult. 
I stand corrected.

- Rich


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

FWIW I've been a TiVo Fanboy for many, many, many years...converted a lot of folks after my brother-in-law converted me back in the dark ages of Series1's. I don't hate the PXL at all. Like some have said, I just expect it to work as smoothly as the rest of the TiVo line...and at this point it does not. I would have a hard time recommending it to anyone as is. I do have faith that TiVo will resolve these issues though, they always have historically and I've no reason to believe they won't this time.

Discussing what's good and bad about our TiVo's is healthy I think. I do get annoyed at folks that only post negative things, probably about as much as people get annoyed at me for posting mostly positive things. But hey, if they really have a point I'm open to it. If they don't (at least IMHO) I just ignore it and move on. Nobody and no CE equipment I've ever run into is perfect...I'm okay with that.



Robert2413 said:


> What I like about the PXL over the S3 in addition to the speed is the ability to use a wireless keyboard to enter searches and season passes. I bought one of the micro-keyboards from Hong Kong (discussed elsewhere on this board) and it works like a champ.


That does sound cool. I was waiting for the TiVo remote/keypad thing to show up.  I haven't even tried anything else. Do you have a link to more info? I should do a search I suppose. I've got a couple of wireless keyboards including a diNovo Mini that I use with my Mac Mini Media Center. I'd love to use it with TiVo as well. Off to see the Wizard!

EDIT: Woo hoo! Search _is_ my friend. Found a couple of threads and low-and-behold someone else posted that they are using the diNovo Mini! The wife's out this evening so I now have a "project"! Might even move the PXL back downstairs! 

UPDATE: Took me all of about one minute to pair the diNovo Mini to the TiVo Premiere XL and it's working perfectly! Added info here. Thanks for the heads-up Robert! :up:


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

RichB said:


> For a moment there, I thought I was talking to an adult.
> I stand corrected.
> 
> - Rich


Ah, you spat your dummy out and resorted to a time honored cliche as a reply. Well played sir.

OK, enough is enough. Sorry folks for dragging this on way too long. I just get frustrated by the constant repetitive whining in this forum. There are many positive things to be said about the TiVo Premiere but this forum doesn't appear to be the place to talk about them any more. Some people do try to be positive, but misery loves company, I suppose. I sometimes think the site should be renamed from "TiVo Community" to "TiVo *****-Slap Community". It certainly would be more descriptive.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

TrueTurbo said:


> I sometimes think the site should be renamed from "TiVo Community" to "TiVo *****-Slap Community".


Hey now...that one made me smile. Good one.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

TrueTurbo said:


> I sometimes think the site should be renamed from "TiVo Community" to "TiVo *****-Slap Community". It certainly would be more descriptive.


I never laid a hand on you 

Sorry, I just could not resist that one.

I am in the same situation as Rich. I have recommended TiVo's since the serier 1.
I have 12 active TiVo's on my account (All lifetime) for myself, friends, and family.

At this point in time, I cannot recommend this unit to Friends and Family.
I am less certain about their ability to correct these problems because they seem fundamental.
I will be the first the applaud when/if the performance problems corrected and the product completed.

- Rich


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I must say I am in the same boat after 10 years of using TiVos. While I used to have no problem recommending a TiVo to friends, I don't recommend it anymore. My parents both still tell me how their Directivo's and now my mom's TiVo HDs are the best presents they never asked for. 

I figured the UI complaints were exaggerated until I made the switch to the HD UI this weekend. It is definitely disappointing. If anything I would compare it to using broadband and then going back and trying to use dial-up. Yeah it is still the internet, but the delays take away from the enjoyment just as they do on a game that constantly has to load. It seems stable but it is a frustrating process when using it. 

Oh well we just get to keep wondering what TiVo has been doing or is still doing. There are so many better ways this could have been handled and they just didn't. It just makes you wonder.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

richsadams said:


> FWIW I've been a TiVo Fanboy for many, many, many years...converted a lot of folks after my brother-in-law converted me back in the dark ages of Series1's. I don't hate the PXL at all. Like some have said, I just expect it to work as smoothly as the rest of the TiVo line...and at this point it does not. I would have a hard time recommending it to anyone as is. I do have faith that TiVo will resolve these issues though, they always have historically and I've no reason to believe they won't this time.
> 
> Discussing what's good and bad about our TiVo's is healthy I think. I do get annoyed at folks that only post negative things, probably about as much as people get annoyed at me for posting mostly positive things. But hey, if they really have a point I'm open to it. If they don't (at least IMHO) I just ignore it and move on. Nobody and no CE equipment I've ever run into is perfect...I'm okay with that.
> 
> ...


This is what this TiVo forum should be used for, getting useful information easily, not kicking each other, unless you can tell me how kicking others fixes my TPXL problems.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

My TiVo XL crashed and spontaneously rebooted twice tonight within 2 hours.
It had never done that before.

- Rich


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## Bsteenson (Jul 30, 2000)

I've been a TiVo fanboy since the original 14-gig Series 1, and my current Premiere is the 12th TiVo I've owned. I don't hesitate to recommend it to anyone looking for an HD DVR, but only with certain qualifications. I only run mine in the old standard display. The new HD display is simply unusably slow. But the standard display is much, much faster on the Premier than on the HD, transfers go faster, Season Pass changes are processed much more quickly, etc. There's no way I would recommend anyone give up their Series 3 or Tivo HD now simply to get a Premiere, but for someone who needs a new/additional HD DVR, the Premiere is faster than the HD, has a bigger standard drive and is the same price as the original HD price (although admittedly you can often find HDs for a much lower price now).
I just wish the Premiere was all that it _could _be.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

After using the HD UI for a week, I think I am going back to the SD UI. I jumped on my Tivo HD to delete some recordings and it was just a more enjoyable experience. I also found myself getting frustrated with the premiere due to the speed and as a result noticing all the other features Tivo is missing. I have always known they were there but they are easier to ignore when everything else works perfectly.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

RichB said:


> My TiVo XL crashed and spontaneously rebooted twice tonight within 2 hours.
> It had never done that before.
> 
> - Rich


I'm off work today. Mine just rebooted out of nowhere in the middle of the day, while recording The Stand. No reason for it, there is no update. F THIS


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Bsteenson said:


> I've been a TiVo fanboy since the original 14-gig Series 1, and my current Premiere is the 12th TiVo I've owned. I don't hesitate to recommend it to anyone looking for an HD DVR, but only with certain qualifications. I only run mine in the old standard display. The new HD display is simply unusably slow. But the standard display is much, much faster on the Premier than on the HD, transfers go faster, Season Pass changes are processed much more quickly, etc. There's no way I would recommend anyone give up their Series 3 or Tivo HD now simply to get a Premiere, but for someone who needs a new/additional HD DVR, the Premiere is faster than the HD, has a bigger standard drive and is the same price as the original HD price (although admittedly you can often find HDs for a much lower price now).
> I just wish the Premiere was all that it _could _be.


Well said. My sentiments exactly. :up:


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

b_scott said:


> I'm off work today. Mine just rebooted out of nowhere in the middle of the day, while recording The Stand.


It makes one wonder how many times some Premieres are rebooting themselves when nobody even knows it...


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

crxssi said:


> It makes one wonder how many times some Premieres are rebooting themselves when nobody even knows it...


TiVo probably knows since who the hell is rebooting their TiVo twice a day while recording shows 

- Rich


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## _Ryan_ (Apr 4, 2010)

From TiVo Margret's Twitter page, in response to someone's question about when the next software update would be: "*About 2-3 weeks*." (as of 6/21)

The full back & forth:
@tivodesign any word on when we might see the next patch/update? the fans look like they are getting restless
@brennokbob About 2-3 weeks.
@tivodesign cool. thanks for getting back to me.

http://twitter.com/tivodesign


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## wp746911 (Feb 19, 2005)

this needs to be a big update- dual core running, full hd mensu... I own a premier and its fine but seriously tivo, get your act together.


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## _Ryan_ (Apr 4, 2010)

As of 6/28, TiVo Margret says "*We anticipate releasing an update in the next two weeks*."

http://twitter.com/tivodesign


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

wp746911 said:


> this needs to be a big update- dual core running, full hd mensu... I own a premier and its fine but seriously tivo, get your act together.


They need to get the HD menu fixed first where user can use it instead of the SD menu. :down:


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

caddyroger said:


> They need to get the HD menu fixed first where user can use it instead of yjr SD menu. :down:


They need to figure out why a minority of people are having issues with the HD menus. Hopefully they know what the cause is and can fix it. For most of us the HD menus are fine.


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## andrewl570 (Apr 7, 2010)

aaronwt said:


> They need to figure out why a minority of people are having issues with the HD menus. Hopefully they know what the cause is and can fix it. For most of us the HD menus are fine.


Eh, I think the HD menus are slow and buggy overall. I have had to restart my premiere more times than the total number of times I had to restart my series 2, which I had for 6 years. I mean the bugs aren't terrible but I'd love tivo to fix them.


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## alokkola (Apr 18, 2006)

caddyroger said:


> They need to get the HD menu fixed first where user can use it instead of yjr SD menu. :down:


I had been waiting for a stable HD menu update but now I am thinking I can live with the SD menus. But I'd rather have new features released. I wish for Pandora and Netflix with Closed-captions enabled.


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

RichB said:


> My TiVo XL crashed and spontaneously rebooted twice tonight within 2 hours.
> It had never done that before.
> 
> - Rich


Mine was solid in SD mode until about a week ago; since then, I'm getting reboots a couple times a day (that I know of). They typically seem to occur when I'm watching something and a internet download starts.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> They need to figure out why a minority of people are having issues with the HD menus. Hopefully they know what the cause is and can fix it. For most of us the HD menus are fine.


Reallly? Maybe my expectations are too high then. The HD menu actions take at least two to four times as long to respond as the SD menus. It all appears to stem from the constant back and forth communications to get the various graphics. My broadband is 20/5 and tests constantly at about those speeds so I don't think it has much to do with my connection. I expect the HD menus to function about as well as the SD menus and they are no where near that. Am I asking too much? Also, I don't know that it's affecting a minority of people either...that's just about impossible to know IMO. I'm very glad that you're pleased with your Premieres though. :up:


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

retired_guy said:


> Mine was solid in SD mode until about a week ago; since then, I'm getting reboots a couple times a day (that I know of). They typically seem to occur when I'm watching something and a internet download starts.


If all of your cable, splitters, connections, etc. are good, those are classic hard drive failure symptoms (possible I/O error correction problems, etc.). It could be something else but I'd call TiVo. They can check their logs and they may have you run some Kickstarts.


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> They need to figure out why a minority of people are having issues with the HD menus. Hopefully they know what the cause is and can fix it. For most of us the HD menus are fine.


How do you know it a minority, it could be a majority of user that is having having issues with the hd menu's. I asked where did every one get that 70% of the premiere does not have the problem and 30% are ok. In reality it could be the opposite.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

caddyroger said:


> How do you know it a minority, it could be a majority of user that is having having issues with the hd menu's. I asked where did every one get that 70% of the premiere does not have the problem and 30% are ok. In reality it could be the opposite.


I used that number from a poll on this form as 70% said that they were satisfied with the TP/TPXL, it may not be that way anymore BUT don't mess with aaronwt as he got 6 gold (24c I think) Premieres that work like almost no others, yes a few people have posted that they love their TP TiVos but love is different for different people, I know the HDUI is much slower than my Series 3 UI menus (not counting the re-boots and the need to pull the plug), and I have a somewhat fast Internet speed (about 20 to 30 Mbits/sec) from Comcast. We should take another poll today asking of the people that are using or tried to use the HDUI, how satisfied were they with the HDUI. That answer may be in the 10%-20% point. (If this was somebody's first TiVo maybe they would have nothing to compare the HDUI to)


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> They need to figure out why a minority of people are having issues with the HD menus. Hopefully they know what the cause is and can fix it. For most of us the HD menus are fine.


Honestly you are the only person I have seen here that says they are not having problems with the HD menus.


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## DaveWhittle (Jul 25, 2002)

Count me as another not having problems with the HD menus, lockups or reboots. 

The HD-UI is a little slow at times and I'm looking forward to the next update, but even as it exists now I'm happy with the Premiere.


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## milo (Feb 15, 2002)

DaveWhittle said:


> Count me as another not having problems with the HD menus, lockups or reboots.


Me too. I wish it was faster, but other than that it works for me.


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## mvnuenen (Jun 1, 2007)

sthor said:


> Honestly you are the only person I have seen here that says they are not having problems with the HD menus.


No, none, nada, niente problems what so ever. Sometimes a bit slow (and I'm talking 2-3 seconds tops) but routinely very acceptable (although I do wish it will get as snappy as the SD menu's). So far I've had only one moment where everything went black. Turned out TWC had just redone their channel listings and I had to restart/rerun the initial setup.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

sthor said:


> Honestly you are the only person I have seen here that says they are not having problems with the HD menus.


No problems here also. Like others have mentioned, I see an occasional slow down with the HD menus where it takes 3 to 5 secs to respond, but it doesn't last long and I'm soon back to 1 to 2 sec responses. I would like the HD menus to be a little faster but I have no problem living with them as they are now.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

I've been using the HDUI for over 2-3 weeks now and have not had any issues. My remote shortcuts still takes me to the SD NPL most of the time, but my Tivo does not crash for all I can tell. Sometime I go into the HD menu and the response is slower than SDUI but tolerable. I wouldn't say I have any gripe at this point, just things on the wishlist, like full dual-core, more UI supporting HD, all text entries to support USB keyboard, Pandora. When they come, I'd be happy as a clam, but it's just fine now.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

sthor said:


> Honestly you are the only person I have seen here that says they are not having problems with the HD menus.


Then you have not been reading the threads here in the Premiere section.
There are other people with no issues.

All I know for sure is the personal experience with my Premieres. No reboots and all are running the HD menus. Are the HD menus slower than the SD menus, of course. But mine are nowhere near as slow as some people have posted. The HD menus on my Premieres are inline with the speeds posted from the TiVo videos of the Premiere menus.

The faster they convert everything to HD menus the better. I can't stand the menus that are still in SD anymore.


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## chrispitude (Apr 23, 2005)

richsadams said:


> Reallly? Maybe my expectations are too high then. The HD menu actions take at least two to four times as long to respond as the SD menus. It all appears to stem from the constant back and forth communications to get the various graphics. My broadband is 20/5 and tests constantly at about those speeds so I don't think it has much to do with my connection. I expect the HD menus to function about as well as the SD menus and they are no where near that. Am I asking too much? Also, I don't know that it's affecting a minority of people either...that's just about impossible to know IMO. I'm very glad that you're pleased with your Premieres though. :up:


This is exactly how I feel. One of the things I liked about TiVo over the cable company DVRs is that the TiVo responded immediately to any remote key press, where the cable company DVR lagged behind. It gives the interface a sloppy, underpowered feel. With the Series 3 I could go "down-down-down-select" in very quick succession and the menus would keep up. Navigating the Premiere's HD menus feels like spoonfeeding a child. ("Didja get that keypress? Didja? Ahhh.... there ya go!")

- Chris


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## strejcek (Mar 15, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> Then you have not been reading the threads here in the Premiere section.
> There are other people with no issues.
> 
> All I know for sure is the personal experience with my Premieres. No reboots and all are running the HD menus. Are the HD menus slower than the SD menus, of course. But mine are nowhere near as slow as some people have posted. The HD menus on my Premieres are inline with the speeds posted from the TiVo videos of the Premiere menus.
> ...


You're not the only one that has had NO problems with the Premiers. I've got two, both running with the HD menus and have had no reboots, hangs, etc. And I couldn't agree more, the sooner the SD goes away, the better.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

strejcek said:


> And I couldn't agree more, the sooner the SD goes away, the better.


Let me rephrase that for you- I think you mean "the sooner TiVo adds HD menus for those that are still SD-only, the better". I don't think anyone would advocate elimination of the SD menus completely from the Premiere. Choice is a good thing...


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

crxssi said:


> Let me rephrase that for you- I think you mean "the sooner TiVo adds HD menus for those that are still SD-only, the better". I don't think anyone would advocate elimination of the SD menus completely from the Premiere. Choice is a good thing...


Well they would have to keep the SD menus for people with SD sets. The HD menus look like crap when trying to view them on an SD set.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

chrispitude said:


> Navigating the Premiere's HD menus feels like spoonfeeding a child. ("Didja get that keypress? Didja? Ahhh.... there ya go!")
> 
> - Chris


LOL! 

BTW, our PXL has frozen three times (w/green circle) that required a hard reboot. But that was within the first few weeks we had it (pre-ordered). No problems more recently but we haven't been using the HD UI menus much, they are just too slow for my taste I guess. We're sticking with SD for now.


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

strejcek said:


> You're not the only one that has had NO problems with the Premiers. I've got two, both running with the HD menus and have had no reboots, hangs, etc. And I couldn't agree more, the sooner the SD goes away, the better.


Well first they need to the HD menu to work. What damm good is it when it does not work as advertised.  They need to set it up where they can disable the HD menu and refund $150.00 back. People bought the s4 on the advertised HD menu. This not a small number, 30 out of 100 are having this problem.
If this is not fixed by the first of the year I might see a lawyer.


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## badguitar (Apr 15, 2010)

aaronwt said:


> Well they would have to keep the SD menus for people with SD sets. The HD menus look like crap when trying to view them on an SD set.


Agree. Plus, some functions like Parental Controls only work on SD.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

caddyroger said:


> If this is not fixed by the first of the year I might see a lawyer.


not this again


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

jrtroo said:


> not this again


Right now the s4 is no better then my s3.


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## deandashl (Aug 8, 2008)

So 3 months have gone by.

Any new menu's and such in HD yet?

TiVo needs to hire another programmer. Bob, who only works part-time and has been on vacation for two months, isn't getting very far.



If TiVo put 1/2 the time working on the HD UI as aaronwt and TrueTurbo spend defending it on this forum, it would be done by now.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

caddyroger said:


> Right now the s4 is no better then my s3.


If ignoring the HD menus (which for some people is a must) it still has much faster network transfer speeds, and more default storage space.


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

crxssi said:


> If ignoring the HD menus (which for some people is a must) it still has much faster network transfer speeds, and more default storage space.


My s3 has a 1TB hard drive. It not worth $700.00 just to get a little more speed. I am checking on the Moxi and the use of a external hard drive. If I am able to use the external hard and be able to copy the programs to my computer to take the ads out I'll buy a Moxi and put the premiere in the garbage. Hell I might just get the Moxi and forget about the transferring of programs. 6TB of hard drive space way more then I need.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

caddyroger said:


> My s3 has a 1TB hard drive.


Regardless of what aftermarket drive you shoved in an old TiVo, that does not change the accuracy of my statement. The Premiere has more *default* storage space, which is an advantage.


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## tanoanian (Nov 1, 2003)

There's already a class action lawsuit against the iPhone 4....surprising no one's filed against tivo...


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

tanoanian said:


> There's already a class action lawsuit against the iPhone 4....surprising no one's filed against tivo...


Why do posts like this make me curse a little under my breath?


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## tanoanian (Nov 1, 2003)

Orangeboy Everyone's entitled to a voice... Maybe you should try being more accepting of others...


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

tanoanian said:


> Orangeboy Everyone's entitled to a voice... Maybe you should try being more accepting of others...


...and if you can't be accepting, you should sue the hell out of them, right!?

Welcome to the USA.


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## andrewl570 (Apr 7, 2010)

When?!?


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