# BOLT Stock Cooling SUCKS



## CIR-Engineering

I know TiVo claims that the "cool" (pun intended) shape of the BOLT is to aid in cooling. However, if you look at the way the box is designed, the fan exhausts directly under the BOLT allowing the same hot air to be sucked right back in from underneath on the other side.

For those of you who have been following my hard drive upgrade threads, you know that I have had to replace my drive again. For the couple weeks I waited for a replacement drive I left the entire BOLT cover off. With the cover off, the ODT temperature dropped from 67~69 degrees to a consistent 54 degrees. The hard drive is also running cooler.

One thought I have is to build a duct under the fan to direct air away from the underside. Another idea is to cut a hole for a 120mm fan right over the heat sink to blow air in. However, that would probably void the warranty on my TiVo if a problem comes up and I'm not sure I want to do that. I've thought about buying a parts BOLT to hack up the case, but they go for over $50 typically and that seems pricey.

It's too unsightly to leave the cover off on my rack, but I am considering building a custom wall mount to hold the BOLT behind the TV with the cover off (the HIDEit Bolt mount needs the cover on the BOLT). At least that way it will stay cool and be unseen. This seems like the easiest option...

Another other idea I have is to actually mount the bolt MB inside a Roamio basic case (I have a parts unit that I used to get a cable card socket out of). The two boards have remarkably similar form factors and the Basic could probably be altered to work.

My other thought is to literally just build a better enclosure from scratch or use an enclosure from an obsolete piece of AV equipment.

Has anyone done anything like this? Thoughts?

*EDIT: I do like the idea of a new enclosure or behind the TV because than I don't have to look at the stupid bent white box anymore ;-)*

Thanks,
craigr


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## clay.autery

CIR-Engineering said:


> .
> 
> My other thought is to literally just build a better enclosure from scratch or use an enclosure from an obsolete piece of AV equipment.
> 
> Has anyone done anything like this? Thoughts?
> 
> Thanks,
> craigr


I know, right? My Bolt ran 73 degree C right out of the box. People will argue with us, and they already have with me, but I am not a fan of the chassis OR thermal design..

I am working on the same things you are.... Here's my thread:

Documenting my Bolt Experiences...

I am working the problem in stages AS I do my drive upgrades and the like.
I ordered 2 "broken" Bolts... I have received and resurrected the first one and it is already serviing as my 4TB backup Bolt on a 30-day activation.
The second one, I will use the case to hack on to put my 8TB 3/5" drive in a temporary external enclosure.

I don't really give a rat's "4th point of contact" what the final product looks like, because it will be in a wiring/equipment closet, BUT....

I am going with your last cited option and creating a completely new (or modified off-the-shelf) chassis for the Bolt guts, 3.5" HDD, et al. And I am planning to power it with a linear power supply, preferably internal (for RFI reduction purposes because I am an amateur radio op). I MAY consider putting in a good switching supply if I can successfully shield and ground everything properly in the new chassis design.

Harkens back to the late 90s/early 2000s when the first case modding/building/hacking/cooling et al stuff began in earnest.

Look forward to following your developments....


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## richsadams

Had the exact same concerns when we upgraded from a Premiere to a Bolt+. All of our A/V equipment is in an enclosed cabinet with glass doors. There's a vent on the bottom of the cabinet as well as the one interior shelf. I installed the Bolt+ where the Premiere had been on the upper shelf, directly over the vent. However where the Premiere ran fairly cool, the Bolt+ was instantly hot, the ODT showing 69c to 71c. As we all know, heat is the enemy of electronics.

To mitigate the heat issue I installed a fan inside the cabinet, directly above the bottom vent. Initially I had the fan pulling hot air from the cabinet. It helped, but not a lot. So I flipped it over so that it was introducing "fresh air" into the cabinet. The fan is aimed at the vent in the shelf above it, blowing air through the upper vent and into the bottom of the Bolt+. I was surprised how well it worked. Now the ODT runs at about 57c to 60c all of the time.

The fan I purchased is powered by the USB port on the Bolt. The fan has three speeds and I have it set on medium. It's very quiet but I could hear a little "hum" when the TV was off and the room was silent. So I added four little stick-on rubber bumpers and now it's silent inside the cabinet.

clay.autery, I was reading your other thread and see that you're way down the mod road, so this probably won't apply to you, but it's an inexpensive and easy remedy that worked for me and might be worth a try for others looking for a quick fix.


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## clay.autery

richsadams said:


> ...the Bolt+ was instantly hot, the ODT showing 69c to 71c. As we all know, heat is the enemy of electronics.
> 
> To mitigate the heat issue I installed a fan inside the cabinet, directly above the bottom vent. Initially I had the fan pulling hot air from the cabinet. It helped, but not a lot. So I flipped it over so that it was introducing "fresh air" into the cabinet. The fan is aimed at the vent in the shelf above it, blowing air through the upper vent and into the bottom of the Bolt+. I was surprised how well it worked. Now the ODT runs at about 57c to 60c all of the time.
> 
> The fan I purchased is powered by the USB port on the Bolt. The fan has three speeds and I have it set on medium. It's very quiet but I could hear a little "hum" when the TV was off and the room was silent. So I added four little stick-on rubber bumpers and now it's silent inside the cabinet.
> 
> clay.autery, I was reading your other thread and see that you're way down the mod road, so this probably won't apply to you, but it's an inexpensive and easy remedy that worked for me and might be worth a try for others looking for a quick fix.


Not a bad design for your particular situation. 120mm fans can move a lot of air, even the ones designed to run quiet. 

I see your Bolt runs naturally hot like mine. What's the manufacture date from the bottom label, if you don't mind? Isolation dampers, especially ones made of the right durometer of Sorbothane are like magic bullets for transmitted vibrations.

I don't think I can apply your solution to my situation right now, as I do not use a cabinet. My equipment is merely stacked on top of the chest of drawers I use to store our DVD collection. And ultimately, it will all be installed in a wiring/equipment closet (converted hall closet). But I suspect my temporary, modded Bolt "Franken-chassis" will at some point have a 120mm mounted to it somehow. 

I think part of the answer IF using the OE chassis, is 2-fold. 1) stop the hot air exit short circuit return to the inlet venting, and 2) provide plenty of fresh air to the limited inlet vents. However, i don't think anything will ever actually overcome the fact that there is very little air being forced to flow over the processor heatsink. The processor is in essentially a passive setup with a marginal heatsink and little room for convection and radiation above and around the heatsink.

Glad you found a solution for your needs!


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## richsadams

Agreed. I know the trend's "smaller is better" but the new design (outside of the quirky look) leaves a lot to be desired. I don't know what the failure rate of the old Vs new design is, but if TiVo only took into account the ROI and not the incredible inconvenience and frustration customers incur when losing hundreds of hours of recordings, there are some bean counters that need to taken out behind a shed.

Our Bolt's manufacture date is October 10th, 2016.

Your work reminds me of my first mods back in the day, adding a second hard drive to my Series1. Things were so much simpler then. 

Keep up the good work!


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## clay.autery

richsadams said:


> Our Bolt's manufacture date is October 10th, 2016.
> 
> Your work reminds me of my first mods back in the day, adding a second hard drive to my Series1. Things were so much simpler then.
> 
> Keep up the good work!


Thanks for the manufacture date... I'm trying to see if there is any correlation between manufacture date vs. "cool" vs "hot" Bolts right out of the box. BoltPime (Nov 17) is HOT. BoltBack (Jul 16) is much cooler. Your Oct '16 Bolt seems to fall in the "Hot" camp.

RE: "My work..." Well, probably because "I" am from "back in the day". Not from TiVo world, but case, cooling, et al. mods.  We got pretty inventive back then when off-the-shelf solutions didn't exist.

I will keep it up until I am finished, it's no longer fun, or some other "shiny" project distracts me.


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## justen_m

Mine is steady at 66F. But... I elevated it. I put caps from powerade under each for corners, lifting it up about .5". How do I check manufacturer's date"?


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## BobCamp1

The curve isn't for cooling purposes -- that's just marketing hype. The presence of the fan destroys any benefits the odd shape might have. Plus the DVR simply isn't tall enough to benefit from the curve. The curve is there to look cool and prevent anybody from putting anything heavy on top of that cheap, plastic top.

Heat isn't the enemy of electronics, and even the hard drive would prefer to operate at around 40 - 45 C. 

The cooling system is too loud and isn't designed to achieve optimal cooling, but it barely has to do anything so it's working well enough.


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## JoeKustra

justen_m said:


> Mine is steady at 66F. But... I elevated it. I put caps from powerade under each for corners, lifting it up about .5". How do I check manufacturer's date"?


Good move. The date should be on a sticker. You may have to pull power and look in the rear or underneath. Sorry, I don't have a Bolt. On a Roamio it is on the rear. I have 1/2" feet to elevate my box. That's good for 1C.


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## clay.autery

justen_m said:


> Mine is steady at 66F. But... I elevated it. I put caps from powerade under each for corners, lifting it up about .5". How do I check manufacturer's date"?


Bolt: Middle of the label on the bottom: [DD MM YYYY]



BobCamp1 said:


> The curve isn't for cooling purposes -- that's just marketing hype. The presence of the fan destroys any benefits the odd shape might have. Plus the DVR simply isn't tall enough to benefit from the curve. The curve is there to look cool and prevent anybody from putting anything heavy on top of that cheap, plastic top.
> 
> Heat isn't the enemy of electronics, and even the hard drive would prefer to operate at around 40 - 45 C.
> 
> The cooling system is too loud and isn't designed to achieve optimal cooling, but it barely has to do anything so it's working well enough.


Yep.... I too am convinced the curve was put there to help insure no device was placed atop the Bolt. The curve actually contributes to an airflow short circuit beneath the chassis.


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## justen_m

My relatively cool Bolt is 28 April 2017. As an engineer, I agree with others. I can't see a reason for the design, other than marketing BS.

I know I've shipped stuff for no reason other than... the marketing and or sales department thinks we need it. (LaserJet engineer... seriously, 1200dpi color? You understand the human eye can't see that, right? Our printers aren't physically capable of that, right? But you can put in on the label if I add this feature? Sigh...)


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## RichB

I replaced the stock fan with a  Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2 

The XS-2 fan is quieter and dropped to temperature from 64 to 54 (after running for 8 hours). It's a bit of a pain to replace it.

sounds like a JET engine taking off!!!

- Rich


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## aaronwt

RichB said:


> I replaced the stock fan with a  Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2
> 
> The XS-2 fan is quieter and dropped to temperature from 64 to 54 (after running for 8 hours). It's a bit of a pain to replace it.
> 
> sounds like a JET engine taking off!!!
> 
> - Rich


I did the same thing with both of my Bolts and saw similar results.

Although I thought it was very easy to replace the fan. For me, the most difficult part is putting the enclosure back on. It usually takes me two or three tries before it's seated correctly.


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## Mikeguy

Just checked: 56 degrees, in a relatively open area with other running electronics (on top of them) and having done nothing more than putting small water bottle bottle caps under the 4 corners (as I've done with other electronics). And I don't hear the fan, sitting 8-10' away.

Something seems to be working well here.


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## clay.autery

Mikeguy said:


> Just checked: 56 degrees, in a relatively open area with other running electronics (on top of them) and having done nothing more than putting small water bottle bottle caps under the 4 corners (as I've done with other electronics). And I don't hear the fan, sitting 8-10' away.
> 
> Something seems to be working well here.


What was your starting temperature? Delta?


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## Mikeguy

Delta between nothing and the small supports? I started using them almost immediately and long ago, thanks to a suggestion here (thanks again, Sharkster!)--I seem to think, maybe around 5 degrees?


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## clay.autery

Mikeguy said:


> Delta between nothing and the small supports? I started using them almost immediately and long ago, thanks to a suggestion here (thanks again, Sharkster!)--I seem to think, maybe around 5 degrees?


No... well yeah... To understand the significance of the 56 degree report you made, it'd be nice to have some reference temps:

Temp stock (as delivered):
Temp with bottle caps: incremental improvement; sets based line for next observation
Temp with new fan and bottle caps: <--- direct comparison to "Temp with bottle caps" I think this is where the 56 degrees C you reported fits in.
Temp with new fan no bottle caps: <---- direct comparison to stock


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## Mikeguy

clay.autery said:


> No... well yeah... To understand the significance of the 56 degree report you made, it'd be nice to have some reference temps:
> 
> Temp stock (as delivered):
> Temp with bottle caps: incremental improvement; sets based line for next observation
> Temp with new fan and bottle caps: <--- direct comparison to "Temp with bottle caps" I think this is where the 56 degrees C you reported fits in.
> Temp with new fan no bottle caps: <---- direct comparison to stock


Unfortunately, I really don't have other stats, as the temp. seemingly hasn't been an issue for me and I haven't had a need (thankfully) to go a new fan route. The best I can recall, the initial temp. without any mod. was in the low or mid-60's (I remember thinking that it was at an acceptable level, esp. vis-à-vis reports I was seeing from others), with the small supports then lowering things by maybe around 5 degrees. Sorry for the lack of precision.


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## clay.autery

Mikeguy said:


> Unfortunately, I really don't have other stats, as the temp. seemingly hasn't been an issue for me and I haven't had a need (thankfully) to go a new fan route. The best I can recall, the initial temp. without any mod. was in the low or mid-60's (I remember thinking that it was at an acceptable level, esp. vis-à-vis reports I was seeing from others), with the small supports then lowering things by maybe around 5 degrees. Sorry for the lack of precision.


Sorry Mikeguy.... I got confused. Thought yhou did a fan replacement. Doh!


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## cwerdna

justen_m said:


> Mine is steady at 66F. But... I elevated it. I put caps from powerade under each for corners, lifting it up about .5". How do I check manufacturer's date"?


Huh? 66 F? Do you mean 66 C?

The ODT value in the system information screen as far as we know is on-die temperature and is in Celsius.

66 F would mean ODT is just under 19 C.

I just put my Bolt Plus on top of a USB-powered laptop cooling pad which has 1 or 2 fans, depending on which pad I use. Since I don't have high confidence is some of the cheaper ones running 24x7, I pick up cheap ones when they go on sale at Fry's (e.g. Thermaltak Massive V14 was $5 yesterday). I figure the cheapo ones will have bearings that will crap out within a year or two of 24/7 operation, if not faster.


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## justen_m

Yeah, 66C, my bad.


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## Bbwillie

Upgraded to a new volt vox 3T, after 1day of use I started to hear a humming noise and the case was hot when I touched it. TIVO you have a design problem here !! the fan is blowing down but there's nowhere for the air to move, a 1/4 inch. Gap at the bottom ain't enough. I put a giant black paper clip under the box so air can move about 1 and 1/2 inchs. high and I noticed a big difference right away .


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## dirtsy

I don't know if this info will help anyone, but I've had zero problems after upgrading drives and changing fans and then needing to do RMA's for the buzzing from the motherboard issue (and I did break a clip on one!)...just make sure you put the original parts back before you ship! And DO NOT mention that you opened the case and modified it when you call support.

I currently enjoy temps in the 51-56 C range with OTA...My post about my "issue"...sounds like a JET engine taking off!!!

EDIT: Grammer


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## Thom

I don't have a Bolt, but I thought I might mention a couple of things that increased cooling on two other TiVo models I owned. Perhaps it will help in your Bolt cooling solutions...

Philips DSR 6000
This box's fan pulled air in from the right-edge bottom of the box, over the internal power supply board, over the main board, through the fan, over the hard drive, then exhausted it out the left-edge bottom of the box. There was at least 16+ inches between the inlet and outlet holes punched in the bottom of the box. The easiest cooling solution that worked? Putting a long folded piece of paper under the middle of the box. Turns out hot air from the outlet holes was moving under the wide box bottom to the inlet holes. A simple piece of paper prevented this airflow so that only cooler room air entered the inlet holes. If I remember correctly, the box cooled down an extra 10 degrees or so.

Base Roamio
I have four of these boxes, each on its own shelf in an A/V cabinet that has an open front and an open back with closed sides supporting the shelves. Of my four base Roamios, the 2nd one down always ran 10 to 15 degrees hotter, such that it would occasionally hit a main board temperature of 70, which triggers an over-temperature shutdown that lasts until you power cycle the box.

Inside the base Roamio, the cooling air comes in through inlets in the right side of the box, travels over the main board, through the small fan, over the hard drive, then through the outlets on the left side of the box. There's a largish shallow finned heatsink on the main board with an inch or so of empty air above it. While the fan moved air through the box, it did not specifically move air through the heatsink fins, they only got air convection. I replaced the fan with a higher volume one - no change. I removed the heatsink, cleaned the cpu and heatsink, put some good quality heatsink compound on it, and reinstalled the heatsink - no change. So I cut a piece of corrugated cardboard from an Amazon box, trimmed the back-side edge to fit between the various backside connectors (probably unnecessary) to prevent air infiltration along that edge, trimmed the right-side edge to reach barely past the heatsink fins, folded and trimmed the left side cardboard such that the bottom 3/4 of the fan pulled air from under the card board and the top 1/4 pulled air from above the card board. The front edge was folded down (probably unnecessary) to prevent air infiltration along that edge. I also cut a couple of narrow strips in the middle to fold upwards to press against the box cover to keep the cardboard down against the heatsink fins. This turned the cardboard into a shroud that forced air to be actively pulled through the heatsink fins. I let it run overnight to fully warm up before I checked the main board temperature. The box was now running 10 to 15 degrees cooler than before. I haven't had an over-temperature shutdown on that box since.

Open your Bolts up, analyze the cooling air path, and use something to prevent inlet and outlet air mixing together, plus maximize airflow through any cooling fins.


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## Thom

CIR-Engineering said:


> I know TiVo claims that the "cool" (pun intended) shape of the BOLT is to aid in cooling. However, if you look at the way the box is designed, *the fan exhausts directly under the BOLT allowing the same hot air to be sucked right back in from underneath on the other side.*
> 
> For those of you who have been following my hard drive upgrade threads, you know that I have had to replace my drive again. For the couple weeks I waited for a replacement drive I left the entire BOLT cover off. With the cover off, the ODT temperature dropped from 67~69 degrees to a consistent 54 degrees. The hard drive is also running cooler.
> 
> One thought I have is to build a duct under the fan to direct air away from the underside. Another idea is to cut a hole for a 120mm fan right over the heat sink to blow air in. However, that would probably void the warranty on my TiVo if a problem comes up and I'm not sure I want to do that. I've thought about buying a parts BOLT to hack up the case, but they go for over $50 typically and that seems pricey.
> 
> It's too unsightly to leave the cover off on my rack, but I am considering building a custom wall mount to hold the BOLT behind the TV with the cover off (the HIDEit Bolt mount needs the cover on the BOLT). At least that way it will stay cool and be unseen. This seems like the easiest option...
> 
> Another other idea I have is to actually mount the bolt MB inside a Roamio basic case (I have a parts unit that I used to get a cable card socket out of). The two boards have remarkably similar form factors and the Basic could probably be altered to work.
> 
> My other thought is to literally just build a better enclosure from scratch or use an enclosure from an obsolete piece of AV equipment.
> 
> Has anyone done anything like this? Thoughts?
> 
> *EDIT: I do like the idea of a new enclosure or behind the TV because than I don't have to look at the stupid bent white box anymore ;-)*
> 
> Thanks,
> craigr


Quick, cheap, and easy experiment: Cut a triangular piece of cardboard to fill-in the triangular space under the Bolt, position it under the Bolt to block airflow from outlet to inlet, and see if it affects temperature.


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## aaronwt

Thom said:


> Quick, cheap, and easy experiment: Cut a triangular piece of cardboard to fill-in the triangular space under the Bolt, position it under the Bolt to block airflow from outlet to inlet, and see if it affects temperature.


That would majorly affect the temperature.


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## Thom

aaronwt said:


> That would majorly affect the temperature.


I'm not saying to block the inlet and/or outlet. I'm saying to make and place a triangular cardboard wall in the arch under the Bolt, positioned to prevent warmed exhaust air from being sucked into the air intake. Note that I have not examined a Bolt's airflow myself; I am basing this recommendation on the Bolt airflow description in this thread's first post by CIR_Engineering.


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## fyodor

We got one of those USB powered cooled laptop fan/heatsinks and put it under our Tivo Bolt. Temp went down about 5 degrees and some of the bugs we'd been having (skipping/freezes) went away.


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## UCLABB

fyodor said:


> We got one of those USB powered cooled laptop fan/heatsinks and put it under our Tivo Bolt. Temp went down about 5 degrees and some of the bugs we'd been having (skipping/freezes) went away.


I have a usb fan on the way. I plan on directing the air from the fan under the arch of my Bolt+. I hope this will have a positive effect.


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## clay.autery

Thom said:


> Quick, cheap, and easy experiment: Cut a triangular piece of cardboard to fill-in the triangular space under the Bolt, position it under the Bolt to block airflow from outlet to inlet, and see if it affects temperature.


See my thread on Documenting my Bolt experiences.... I've done the isolation experiment as an extension to the elevation experiment.

Isolation does make a difference, but not as much as elevating the exhaust end out of the intake plane.


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## fyodor

I would go with something that also has a good heat transfer surface. We got one of these. YMMV

https://www.amazon.com/Laptop-Coole...qid=1519067382&sr=8-6&keywords=laptop+usb+fan



UCLABB said:


> I have a usb fan on the way. I plan on directing the air from the fan under the arch of my Bolt+. I hope this will have a positive effect.


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## aaronwt

Thom said:


> I'm not saying to block the inlet and/or outlet. I'm saying to make and place a triangular cardboard wall in the arch under the Bolt, positioned to prevent warmed exhaust air from being sucked into the air intake. Note that I have not examined a Bolt's airflow myself; I am basing this recommendation on the Bolt airflow description in this thread's first post by CIR_Engineering.


In my experience, a wire shelf has provided the best cooling for a Bolt.


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## UCLABB

fyodor said:


> I would go with something that also has a good heat transfer surface. We got one of these. YMMV
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Laptop-Coole...qid=1519067382&sr=8-6&keywords=laptop+usb+fan


That does look good, but I already ordered the 120mm fan. Directed air flow under the arch and it lowered odt from 70c to 55c.


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## BobCamp1

I have always had my Bolt on top of this:

https://www.amazon.com/Monitor-Vent...D=41r1hxeOHyL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=detail

My DVD player is also curved on top, and I had to stack them somehow. The DVD player is underneath but is rarely on. I think the holes help, because that bottle cap trick doesn't work as well for me (1 C drop, not worth it).


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## foghorn2

All of this is a bit like passing gas into the leather couch and feeling the warmth rise up to your cheeks.

Raise your arse the next time!!


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## GardenBear

Why people would just follow instructions on setting these things up anyway no problems here other than the VOX issue WITH THE REMOTE! 
I too was a naval engineer, and experience on SST G's and the cooling of such which are ship service turbo generators that provide the power for a ship that's well a thousand times the size of this little box.

Once again no problems here except that stupid error code on the Vox remote. 
Which again TiVo is completely aware of and several people are getting the same error D403

As far as the cooling is concerned if you have everything set up properly in the box and with the cable card and it paired properly and you have a cable card that is working properly and doesn't get too terribly hot approximate operating temperature on a normal basis of this box is around 60 degrees which is just fine. See the picture I sent a couple water glasses under the unit it works perfect keeps it nice and cool no issues here I plan to make a small two and a half inch raised box with a small computer fan in the back of it that will be installed and come on automatically with the unit problem solved not pictured yet I will post once I get it built and I get back from my trip from the island of Hawaii seeing the volcanoes and laying on the black sand beach have a great week peeps









Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## CIR-Engineering

Well here is my solution:

LINK: My Awesome BOLT Cooling Mods ;-)

It was a fun project.


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## CIR-Engineering

Well here is my solution:

My Awesome BOLT Cooling Mods ;-)


GardenBear said:


> Why people would just follow instructions on setting these things up anyway no problems here other than the VOX issue WITH THE REMOTE!
> I too was a naval engineer, and experience on SST G's and the cooling of such which are ship service turbo generators that provide the power for a ship that's well a thousand times the size of this little box.
> 
> Once again no problems here except that stupid error code on the Vox remote.
> Which again TiVo is completely aware of and several people are getting the same error D403
> 
> As far as the cooling is concerned if you have everything set up properly in the box and with the cable card and it paired properly and you have a cable card that is working properly and doesn't get too terribly hot approximate operating temperature on a normal basis of this box is around 60 degrees which is just fine. See the picture I sent a couple water glasses under the unit it works perfect keeps it nice and cool no issues here I plan to make a small two and a half inch raised box with a small computer fan in the back of it that will be installed and come on automatically with the unit problem solved not pictured yet I will post once I get it built and I get back from my trip from the island of Hawaii seeing the volcanoes and laying on the black sand beach have a great week peeps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


My BOLT I am using OTA so no cable card at all and it was sometimes going over 70 degrees C even outside my cabinet propped up for extra cooling. Some TiVo's run hotter than others, but your 60 degrees is very cool for a stock BOLT just on stilts.

craigr


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## Tony_T

I'm at 57° - 62° with my Bolt in a closed, fan-ventilated cabinet.


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## aaronwt

CIR-Engineering said:


> Well here is my solution:
> 
> My Awesome BOLT Cooling Mods ;-)
> 
> My BOLT I am using OTA so no cable card at all and it was sometimes going over 70 degrees C even outside my cabinet propped up for extra cooling. Some TiVo's run hotter than others, but your 60 degrees is very cool for a stock BOLT just on stilts.
> 
> craigr


That's the normal temp for a stock bolt to run that way. Raised up from the surface. At least with the seven Bolts I have used. Of course if it does any transcoding of video, the temps will go higher while doing that.

My current Bolts have the aftermarket fan in them. And sit on a wire shelf. But I moved them into another room and am just using a Mini Vox in my UHD setup for now. Since the Mini Vox is silent, and I've always been able to hear any TiVo with a fan or hard drive in it from across a room.


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## CIR-Engineering

Tony_T said:


> I'm at 57° - 62° with my Bolt in a closed, fan-ventilated cabinet.


Does one of your fans blow air so that it passes under the BOLT? I bet this would help and has been documented by others as having helped a lot.



aaronwt said:


> That's the normal temp for a stock bolt to run that way. Raised up from the surface. At least with the seven Bolts I have used. Of course if it does any transcoding of video, the temps will go higher while doing that.
> 
> My current Bolts have the aftermarket fan in them. And sit on a wire shelf. But I moved them into another room and am just using a Mini Vox in my UHD setup for now. Since the Mini Vox is silent, and I've always been able to hear any TiVo with a fan or hard drive in it from across a room.


The aftermarket fans seem to help lower the temp for most folks by around 10 degrees C so this probably is helping you.

It seems there are a lot of variations in temperature on stock BOLT's. Clay did a lot of work documenting this in his thread. His ODT was 73 degrees C on his stock TiVo.

Documenting my Bolt Experiences...

Best,
craigr


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## Skanter123

fyodor said:


> I would go with something that also has a good heat transfer surface. We got one of these. YMMV
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Laptop-Coole...qid=1519067382&sr=8-6&keywords=laptop+usb+fan


Is this thing quiet? If so, and cools, I like it. What is ODT change since using it?


----------



## NJChris

So - I upgraded to 4tb.. and while doing it I put in the new fan (blacksilent one mentioned). Temps went down to 56.

Had some cablecard issues that Optimum (NJ) couldn't bind it. So that took a few days. In those days I had it upside down so I could remove it easily during the calls if needed.

Checked the temp and it's now 47. Is there a problem leaving this thing upside down other than aesthetics?


----------



## CIR-Engineering

NJChris said:


> So - I upgraded to 4tb.. and while doing it I put in the new fan (blacksilent one mentioned). Temps went down to 56.
> 
> Had some cablecard issues that Optimum (NJ) couldn't bind it. So that took a few days. In those days I had it upside down so I could remove it easily during the calls if needed.
> 
> Checked the temp and it's now 47. Is there a problem leaving this thing upside down other than aesthetics?


That's actually a really good idea and I can't believe I never thought of it.

craigr


----------



## CIR-Engineering

NJChris said:


> So - I upgraded to 4tb.. and while doing it I put in the new fan (blacksilent one mentioned). Temps went down to 56.
> 
> Had some cablecard issues that Optimum (NJ) couldn't bind it. So that took a few days. In those days I had it upside down so I could remove it easily during the calls if needed.
> 
> Checked the temp and it's now 47. Is there a problem leaving this thing upside down other than aesthetics?


You may want to put something under it while upside down to keep the feet level. I know people say it doesn't matter anymore, but leveling the original feet in the air will keep the hard drive horizontal. I personally would not want my hard drive operating at an angle indefinitely.

Best,
craigr


----------



## CIR-Engineering

Thinking about it more, some hard drives should not be mounted upside down. Check the specifications on your 4TB drive and make sure it’s ok. 

craigr


----------



## Skanter123

fyodor said:


> I would go with something that also has a good heat transfer surface. We got one of these. YMMV
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Laptop-Coole...qid=1519067382&sr=8-6&keywords=laptop+usb+fan


Thanks for the suggestion - ordered one for 10 bucks. ODT went from 70 to 57. Used some black masking tape to block view of ugly blue lights. But- this fan is cool!


----------



## Mikeguy

Skanter123 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion - ordered one for 10 bucks. ODT went from 70 to 57. Used some black masking tape to block view of ugly blue lights. But- this fan is cool!


How's the sound factor from the fan?


----------



## Skanter123

Mikeguy said:


> How's the sound factor from the fan?


I only hear a slight whiring sound if my ear is within 12 inches. But I have lots of white noise all around the room - need to mask a 120Hz hum coming from a transformer in an electrical closet across the hall of the apt. (They are working on dampening it). Not sure if I woud hear it if room ws silent. ODT is now 54.

Might as well order on Amazon, return if it bothers you. Blue light is an issue, but can be blocked with tape.


----------



## Mikeguy

Skanter123 said:


> I only hear a slight whiring sound if my ear is within 12 inches. But I have lots of white noise all around the room - need to mask a 120Hz hum coming from a transformer in an electrical closet across the hall of the apt. (They are working on dampening it). Not sure if I woud hear it if room ws silent. ODT is now 54.
> 
> Might as well order on Amazon, return if it bothers you. Blue light is an issue, but can be blocked with tape.


Thanks. Always humorous/odd to me when fans of this sort include an "accent light"--at least, include a switch to be able to turn it off.


----------



## Skanter123

Mikeguy said:


> Thanks. Always humorous/odd to me when fans of this sort include an "accent light"--at least, include a switch to be able to turn it off.


Yes - I suppose they are trying to make their fan "cool" by adding lights.

Most LED lights on equipment are too bright, I need to cover with special filtering transparent plastic. This can be blocked with black masking tape.


----------



## NJChris

Skanter123 said:


> Yes - I suppose they are trying to make their fan "cool" by adding lights.
> 
> Most LED lights on equipment are too bright, I need to cover with special filtering transparent plastic. This can be blocked with black masking tape.


Where do you put the tape to block the light?


----------



## Skanter123

I just put some black masking tape on the front part of the fan, and it cannot be seen in the room. There is still a slight blue reflection on the bottom of the Tivo where it curves, but I kind of like it. I was thinking of putting black tape on the front of the white Bolt as well, but I’m getting used to it.

In any case, my new (refurb) Bolt is going back for replacement - one of the tuners is bad. I thought they were supposed to test this friggin’ things!


----------



## fyodor

Skanter123 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion - ordered one for 10 bucks. ODT went from 70 to 57. Used some black masking tape to block view of ugly blue lights. But- this fan is cool!


Glad that it worked for you. I went from about 70 to 62 so it sounds consistent with my experience. I'm in a closed enclosure so I may get less benefit from the extra circulation.


----------



## Skanter123

Great solution - thanks again! Yes, mines on a shelf in the open, holding around 55.


----------



## Mikeguy

1-year-old Bolt on a solid shelf but space open around it, on water bottle cap supports at the 4 corners, 71F in the room: ODT = 61 right now.


----------



## Skanter123

Skanter123 said:


> I just put some black masking tape on the front part of the fan, and it cannot be seen in the room. There is still a slight blue reflection on the bottom of the Tivo where it curves, but I kind of like it. I was thinking of putting black tape on the front of the white Bolt as well, but I'm getting used to it.
> 
> In any case, my new (refurb) Bolt is going back for replacement - one of the tuners is bad. I thought they were supposed to test this friggin' things!


New Bolt is delivered - all 4 tuners working! Finally. Temp with fan in low 50s. I'm good to go.


----------



## cwerdna

cwerdna said:


> I just put my Bolt Plus on top of a USB-powered laptop cooling pad which has 1 or 2 fans, depending on which pad I use. Since I don't have high confidence is some of the cheaper ones running 24x7, I pick up cheap ones when they go on sale at Fry's (e.g. Thermaltak Massive V14 was $5 yesterday). I figure the cheapo ones will have bearings that will crap out within a year or two of 24/7 operation, if not faster.


The one currently under my Bolt Plus is a ZALMAN - ZALMAN ZM-NC3. ODT is currently 49 C. This one doesn't have a user-controllable fan speed and is quiet.

I have a loud one that I bought ages ago. I have another that is non-adjustable but not loud. And, I have one with a dial that lets me turn the fan speed up/down. That one can get be loud at higher speeds.

Fry's has cheap laptop cooling pads w/fans very often for cheap w/promo code.


----------



## SkyCar

Stock Bolt on a solid wood shelf was running with ODT at 70 C. Just elevating it on a wire rack reduced temp to 68 C. I got one of those $10 laptop coolers (Aicheson) with the blue lights linked earlier in this thread. That only cooled it a bit more to 66-67 C. Pretty disappointing. The fans seem quiet, but not very vigourous. 

What exactly does "ODT" stand for, anyway? A Romaio says "MBT: Internal temperature" instead of "ODT". So, what does MBT mean, exactly?


----------



## Skanter123

SkyCar said:


> Stock Bolt on a solid wood shelf was running with ODT at 70 C. Just elevating it on a wire rack reduced temp to 68 C. I got one of those $10 laptop coolers (Aicheson) with the blue lights linked earlier in this thread. That only cooled it a bit more to 66-67 C. Pretty disappointing. The fans seem quiet, but not very vigourous.
> 
> What exactly does "ODT" stand for, anyway? A Romaio says "MBT: Internal temperature" instead of "ODT". So, what does MBT mean, exactly?


I got the same laptop fan with blue lights - holding at 54C. Was 70 w/o fan. On wooden shelf as well. What is room temp? Mine is 72F.


----------



## SkyCar

Skanter123 said:


> I got the same laptop fan with blue lights - holding at 54C. Was 70 w/o fan. On wooden shelf as well. What is room temp? Mine is 72F.


My room temperature is 74 F.

I have now tried something different, turning the laptop cooler upside down so the fans blow up. I elevated it on some bottle caps so it doesn't lie flat on the shelf. So now, the score is:

Tivo BOLT on wooden shelf: 70 C
Elevated on wire rack: 68 C
BOLT on laptop cooler: 66 C
Upside down laptop cooler on bottle caps: 59 C


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

SkyCar said:


> What exactly does "ODT" stand for, anyway? A Romaio says "MBT: Internal temperature" instead of "ODT". So, what does MBT mean, exactly?


On-Die temperature -- temperature taken on the CPU itself
Motherboard temp -- temperature taken somewhere on the motherboard, which is always cooler.


----------



## Skanter123

SkyCar said:


> My room temperature is 74 F.
> 
> I have now tried something different, turning the laptop cooler upside down so the fans blow up. I elevated it on some bottle caps so it doesn't lie flat on the shelf. So now, the score is:
> 
> Tivo BOLT on wooden shelf: 70 C
> Elevated on wire rack: 68 C
> BOLT on laptop cooler: 66 C
> Upside down laptop cooler on bottle caps: 59 C


Strange - I'm at 54 with fan right-side up. Which Bolt? Mine is 1T, maybe different HD? No bottle caps.


----------



## perrykperry

SkyCar said:


> Stock Bolt on a solid wood shelf was running with ODT at 70 C. Just elevating it on a wire rack reduced temp to 68 C. I got one of those $10 laptop coolers (Aicheson) with the blue lights linked earlier in this thread. That only cooled it a bit more to 66-67 C. Pretty disappointing. The fans seem quiet, but not very vigourous.
> 
> What exactly does "ODT" stand for, anyway? A Romaio says "MBT: Internal temperature" instead of "ODT". So, what does MBT mean, exactly?


MBT = Motherboard Temp
ODT = On-Die Temp


----------



## JoeKustra

From TiVo: TiVo Holiday Trade-In, Trade-Up Sale: trade in your Roamio OTA/VOX (plus $299.98) for a Bolt OTA which explains the difference.


----------



## SkyCar

Skanter123 said:


> Strange - I'm at 54 with fan right-side up. Which Bolt? Mine is 1T, maybe different HD? No bottle caps.


Mine is TiVo BOLT 1000 GB . It's still running on the inverted laptop cooler. Today's ODT is 55 C. It's nine months later, and I'm still happy with this cooling situation. That little cooler has been running 24/7.

It seems like the Bolt is designed to have airflow from the bottom towards the top. So, by turning the laptop cooler fans so they blow upward, they are working with the designed airflow, instead of against it.


----------



## elorimer

The internal fan exhausts air down out of the case. More effective than pushing air in. Slots on the right side are the inflow. So a laptop fan blowing up might help push air in on the right, but will stall the fan on the left. In any case, you don't want a fan on the left blowing air up.


----------



## tommiet

elorimer said:


> The internal fan exhausts air down out of the case. More effective than pushing air in. Slots on the right side are the inflow. So a laptop fan blowing up might help push air in on the right, but will stall the fan on the left. In any case, you don't want a fan on the left blowing air up.


I placed a laptop fan upside down under my BOLT and lowered temp 10 (to 49.) I also raised the laptop fan about 4 inches and place a 1/2 inch spacer on the bottom of the BOLT. My temp was not high, but had a spare laptop fan and used it anyway....


----------



## BobCamp1

elorimer said:


> The internal fan exhausts air down out of the case. More effective than pushing air in. Slots on the right side are the inflow. So a laptop fan blowing up might help push air in on the right, but will stall the fan on the left. In any case, you don't want a fan on the left blowing air up.


I agree, sort of. The worse problem is the hard drive on the front left-hand side. Air is supposed to go in the front left corner, flow over the hard drive, and go out the back left corner. Lowering the ODT by 10 C while unknowingly increasing the hard drive temperature makes for a LESS reliable system.

Solutions where the fan is sideways on the left side of the Tivo blowing air across it are harmless yet appear to provide decent results.


----------



## Qnapfan

... I haven't spec'd out the internals our mount points yet, but my first kneejerk idea to solve the design ... flaws ... is to actuall ditch the case itself in favor of a roomier (and satisfyingly rectilinear) HTPC case. I've worked with a few such AV console sized cases before and given the size of the Bolt ... don't see obvious show stopping mounting problems. Plenty challenges/work to be sure like aligning (if possible) input output to standard PC IO bezels ... actual mount points shouldn't be to bad with screw in board standoffs (screw tapable to the metal base plate) add infinitum ...

... but advantages too ... the primary being a case actually designed for potential air flow throughput with better themal conductive properties to boot. Heck, now that I think of it ... less work with just removing the cover and mounting the top 'nude' Tivo into a somewhat taller HTPC case ... with the IO leads merely wired to mountable extensions to the HTPC IO bezel or generic PCI expansion port plate cover? add to this IIRC the Tivo bolt has an external power brick? if so, that could als be incorporated into the case to make it neater for unit placement and or install (mount it in the same spot the normal internal PSU would be placed WITH fans hahahahahaha.) ... hmmmm the HDD could bay mountable lockable cartridge style! (most htpc cases have at least one standard 3.5 inch bay usually used for optical drives)
Lastly a mod name ... Tivo Zeus! hahahaha ... tagline ... we don't force you to put it on top ... but you'll want to.


----------



## richsadams

Qnapfan said:


> ... I haven't spec'd out the internals our mount points yet, but my first kneejerk idea to solve the design ... flaws ... is to actually ditch the case itself in favor of a roomier (and satisfyingly rectilinear) HTPC case. <snip>


Ha! Great minds think alike. I've actually considered gutting one of our old TiVo Series3's and popping in the Bolt+ innards for the same reasons; form factor, improved cooling, etc. Our Bolt+ is still under warranty so I'm not going to take it apart just yet, but I'd wager it could be done without a lot of hard breathing and frankly I'd be perfectly happy with how it would look.


----------



## Qnapfan

richsadams said:


> Ha! Great minds think alike. I've actually considered gutting one of our old TiVo Series3's and popping in the Bolt+ innards for the same reasons; form factor, improved cooling, etc. Our Bolt+ is still under warranty so I'm not going to take it apart just yet, but I'd wager it could be done without a lot of hard breathing and frankly I'd be perfectly happy with how it would look.
> 
> View attachment 39264


Brilliant ... I had totally forgotten that I have an unused THD (lapsed plan) and XL (still usable but meh internals) ... much closer fit by design and even compatible product aesthetics ... Code Named: Stealth Bolt Black - Special "Aliens Edition" XD

Me likey.


----------



## JoeKustra

richsadams said:


> Ha! Great minds think alike.


My basic Roamio lives on top of a basic Premiere. The Premiere is not run much, but I would not hesitate to change it to a Bolt. There is room plus you need to consider the external connections. With enough space extensions would be easier and the external fan could be improved. Just a thought. I'll have to consider this when we have the next sale.


----------



## Qnapfan

JoeKustra said:


> My basic Roamio lives on top of a basic Premiere. The Premiere is not run much, but I would not hesitate to change it to a Bolt. There is room plus you need to consider the external connections. With enough space extensions would be easier and the external fan could be improved. Just a thought. I'll have to consider this when we have the next sale.


+1 to you and Rich ... I've anguished over my past Tivos ... and now this potentially provides a mod path that would allow the equivalent of 'organ donation' to retain some initial value to those purchases (not to mention recreational fun) ... thumbs up.


----------



## richsadams

This probably belongs in another thread at this point, but I thought I'd follow up here since the concept of "transplanting" a Bolt into a Series3 (or THD, etc.) case should address the Bolt's heat issues and possibly some others like adding/replacing the HDD and the Bolt case's, um, unusual form factor.

So I pulled everything out of our old Series3 and confirmed what I suspected, there's more than enough room inside the Series3 case for A Bolt, in fact I can put our Bolt+, case and all, inside it and still have the original Series3 HDD intact! The Series3 HDD sled is 7" x 5" so even with that left inside there's room for the Bolt's innards.

I found all of the assorted extensions for HDMI, USB, RJ45 Ethernet and coax. There are numerous holes in the back of the Series3 case to accommodate them. Since there's so much room I'm thinking about adding a normal cooling fan inside the case and I might even mount a new 3.5" HDD on the Series3's sled connected either via eSATA or maybe to replace the existing 2.5" HDD completely.

There is one head-scratcher though... the remote/receiver. We use Harmony 650 remotes to control TiVo and our components. With the Bolt basically hiding inside the Series3 case, what's the best option to get the signal "inside"? An old-school IR blaster? I removed the front panel and with a little work I might be able to slip an IR receiver in there. Thoughts?

TIA!


----------



## Qnapfan

richsadams said:


> This probably belongs in another thread at this point, but I thought I'd follow up here since the concept of "transplanting" a Bolt into a Series3 (or THD, etc.) case should address the Bolt's heat issues and possibly some others like adding/replacing the HDD and the Bolt case's, um, unusual form factor.
> 
> So I pulled everything out of our old Series3 and confirmed what I suspected, there's more than enough room inside the Series3 case for A Bolt, in fact I can put our Bolt+, case and all, inside it and still have the original Series3 HDD intact! The Series3 HDD sled is 7" x 5" so even with that left inside there's room for the Bolt's innards.
> 
> I found all of the assorted extensions for HDMI, USB, RJ45 Ethernet and coax. There are numerous holes in the back of the Series3 case to accommodate them. Since there's so much room I'm thinking about adding a normal cooling fan inside the case and I might even mount a new 3.5" HDD on the Series3's sled connected either via eSATA or maybe to replace the existing 2.5" HDD completely.
> 
> There is one head-scratcher though... the remote/receiver. We use Harmony 650 remotes to control TiVo and our components. With the Bolt basically hiding inside the Series3 case, what's the best option to get the signal "inside"? An old-school IR blaster? I removed the front panel and with a little work I might be able to slip an IR receiver in there. Thoughts?
> 
> TIA!
> 
> View attachment 39282
> 
> 
> View attachment 39283


... brings the a tear the the eye, a diamond in the rough right there ... good job! Hmmmm, I am presently thinking that with the add on IR blaster would be the way to go ... Now this would lead me to ponder, is there a spot in/on the case where I could mount it to both look good and provide wide reception coverage ... or possibly hook it up in the traditional add on manner with the installation of a sub mini port in the back? It has also just occurred to me that I've used a number of IR blasters in the past with different shapes and designs ... some formed along the lines of USB receiver stands for media accessories. Some 'tipping' points to consider...

Do you want a tidy compact unit in addition to the unit having a good fixed strategic mounting spot?
Do you want additional versatility in design for a 'floating' IR unit that can be moved? Maybe a combo internal/external with switch?
How much additional time do you want to invest into the construction aspect?
What IR blasters types do you have available for usage?

I think answering these questions, would narrow the field down to a design you would be generally happy with ... cheers.


----------



## richsadams

Qnapfan said:


> ... brings the a tear the the eye, a diamond in the rough right there ... good job! Hmmmm, I am presently thinking that with the add on IR blaster would be the way to go ... Now this would lead me to ponder, is there a spot in/on the case where I could mount it to both look good and provide wide reception coverage ... or possibly hook it up in the traditional add on manner with the installation of a sub mini port in the back? It has also just occurred to me that I've used a number of IR blasters in the past with different shapes and designs ... some formed along the lines of USB receiver stands for media accessories. Some 'tipping' points to consider...
> 
> Do you want a tidy compact unit in addition to the unit having a good fixed strategic mounting spot?
> Do you want additional versatility in design for a 'floating' IR unit that can be moved? Maybe a combo internal/external with switch?
> How much additional time do you want to invest into the construction aspect?
> What IR blasters types do you have available for usage?
> 
> I think answering these questions, would narrow the field down to a design you would be generally happy with ... cheers.


All good points. The Bolt sits inside a cabinet with glass doors, so esthetically it doesn't have to look super streamlined or anything. In fact I've considered simply pulling the upper case and running it "naked". However it would be nice to reclaim the space above it for the tuning adapter and our Apple TV.

Also I don't want to go back to using two separate remotes, but the Bolt's remote can be RC or IR. RC would solve the remote problem completely of course.

To alleviate the heat issue originally I installed this fan over the vent slots in the bottom of the cabinet. It pushes fresh air up to the bottom of the Bolt. That dropped the average temp from about 62c to 58c or so. Putting the Bolt inside the Series3 case with an added exhaust fan may bring it down some more. Plus I'm intrigued by the thought of keeping the Series3's HDD mount in place and adding a 3TB or 4TB 3.5" HDD. I'm sure the quality of 2.5" HDDs have improved over the years, but I think that addressing the heat issue and employing a more robust 3.5" HDD to buffer 6 HD channels might be a better way to go in the long run.

Thanks for the input! I'll have to give this some more thought, but I'm glad there are some options. Takes me back to the good ol' days when I used MFSTools to add a second HDD to our original Series1!


----------



## Qnapfan

richsadams said:


> All good points. The Bolt sits inside a cabinet with glass doors, so esthetically it doesn't have to look super streamlined or anything. In fact I've considered simply pulling the upper case and running it "naked". However it would be nice to reclaim the space above it for the tuning adapter and our Apple TV.
> 
> Also I don't want to go back to using two separate remotes, but the Bolt's remote can be RC or IR. RC would solve the remote problem completely of course.
> 
> To alleviate the heat issue originally I installed this fan over the vent slots in the bottom of the cabinet. It pushes fresh air up to the bottom of the Bolt. That dropped the average temp from about 62c to 58c or so. Putting the Bolt inside the Series3 case with an added exhaust fan may bring it down some more. Plus I'm intrigued by the thought of keeping the Series3's HDD mount in place and adding a 3TB or 4TB 3.5" HDD. I'm sure the quality of 2.5" HDDs have improved over the years, but I think that addressing the heat issue and employing a more robust 3.5" HDD to buffer 6 HD channels might be a better way to go in the long run.
> 
> Thanks for the input! I'll have to give this some more thought, but I'm glad there are some options. Takes me back to the good ol' days when I used MFSTools to add a second HDD to our original Series1!


Hmmmm ... good point on the number of remotes ... Loving the direction you are taking it ... and also particularly buzzed about the possibility of keeping the much better hdd cage structure from the series 3 (one of the more painful flaws of the the present Bolt design). Likewise, I've dusted off the THD for initial prep work for THE transplant (just waiting for the excuse sale of say the base Tivo Bolt model that has the OTA antenna option as well. Lastly, was considering (if the the Bolt rear interace bezel was detachable -looks like it) ... to incorporate that into an aluminum conversion plate to cover the existing unused port punchouts. Oh, and completely frivolous addition of no actual value (except as an inside joke maybe) ... put a high quality sticker over the "HD" model name and replace it with "UHD" ... an inside joke that would make enthusiast friends chuckle inwardly ... in the form of ... a model that TiVo should have had ... last minute thought ... possibility of a shucked WD white ... say 8tb? Its widely held that the drive has the same lineage as the famed WD red series ... which would address issues on power usage, drive strain and longenvity ... not to mention very good performance intrinsic to the large platter nas drives of today.


----------



## davahad

Running Bolt on the top shelf without cover and fan blowing across the surface and ODT is 35.


----------



## richsadams

Qnapfan said:


> Hmmmm ... good point on the number of remotes ... Loving the direction you are taking it ... and also particularly buzzed about the possibility of keeping the much better hdd cage structure from the series 3 (one of the more painful flaws of the the present Bolt design). Likewise, I've dusted off the THD for initial prep work for THE transplant (just waiting for the excuse sale of say the base Tivo Bolt model that has the OTA antenna option as well. Lastly, was considering (if the the Bolt rear interace bezel was detachable -looks like it) ... to incorporate that into an aluminum conversion plate to cover the existing unused port punchouts. Oh, and completely frivolous addition of no actual value (except as an inside joke maybe) ... put a high quality sticker over the "HD" model name and replace it with "UHD" ... an inside joke that would make enthusiast friends chuckle inwardly ... in the form of ... a model that TiVo should have had ... last minute thought ... possibility of a shucked WD white ... say 8tb? Its widely held that the drive has the same lineage as the famed WD red series ... which would address issues on power usage, drive strain and longenvity ... not to mention very good performance intrinsic to the large platter nas drives of today.


Not sure if the rear panel is removable on the Bolt. I was just planning on keeping everything intact, just removing the upper plastic case parts. Rather than perform any mods on the S3 box itself, I'd just opt to run a few extension cables from the various jacks out through the openings in the back. Since it's hidden away, no one would appreciate the effort in my case, but customizing would certainly take it to the next level!


----------



## richsadams

davahad said:


> Running Bolt on the top shelf without cover and fan blowing across the surface and ODT is 35.


Wow! That's a *huge* difference! As mentioned, I'd like to reclaim the space above it, but I might just try pulling the cover to see how it responds. Also concerned about added dust, pet hair and what-have-you getting inside which can contribute to heat and other problems. Does that seem to be an issue?


----------



## Qnapfan

richsadams said:


> Not sure if the rear panel is removable on the Bolt. I was just planning on keeping everything intact, just removing the upper plastic case parts. Rather than perform any mods on the S3 box itself, I'd just opt to run a few extension cables from the various jacks out through the openings in the back. Since it's hidden away, no one would appreciate the effort in my case, but customizing would certainly take it to the next level!


Apologies... I was unclear. I meant the possibility that the I/O bezel plate (the oval section encompassing the ports) remained as a unit that could be attache to a decorative front plate. ...but that is neither here nor there ... not important to functioning ... to which you addressed marvelously IMO ... DOUBLE THUMBS UP!


----------



## Qnapfan

richsadams said:


> Wow! That's a *huge* difference! As mentioned, I'd like to reclaim the space above it, but I might just try pulling the cover to see how it responds. Also concerned about added dust, pet hair and what-have-you getting inside which can contribute to heat and other problems. Does that seem to be an issue?


Personally I've found dust to be a particular problem with free standing devices ... the problem being the potential for an ongoing high volume of air with its potential to convey dust, dander etc. Now with enclosures ... the potential exists for the creation of a smaller ... more controllable environment ... but YMMV here ... depends on how much and method of air circulation. Now in a fairly air tight enclosure ... your dust potential is reasonably low to begin with ... but heat retention ... the problem. I had such an enclosure .... nice looking ... but no air. I resorted to using 4 - 120 mm case fans placed vertically. The bottom fan had a form cover attachment so that it had decent filtration for dust ... the top was left open as a vent. (I 'ballparked that air flow would be cut in half at least with the foam) ... and as a meter ... I placed 2 thermometers top - bottom in the case so at a glance I could see global temps for the enclosure. Hahaha ... at the time I thought high tech BABY! ... but that's bears skins and obsidian by today's standards.


----------



## ncbill

What about putting the main board in a case designed for mineral oil cooling?


----------



## Qnapfan

ncbill said:


> What about putting the main board in a case designed for mineral oil cooling?


... was intrigued by the notion (heard it before years ago, but scoffed it away) As it turns it, the theory and controlled practice seems to be fine, with some thermal advantages ... but in a real world setting, the set up to do it well would be relatively expensive, somewhat fiddly, elaborate and potentially messy. Granted, it would be a neat conversation piece ... but as far as cooling, IMO, the advantages would have to be weighed against the disadvantages* for actual 'real world' in house installation.

*FAQ from Mineral Oil Cooled PC


----------



## GardenBear

Qnapfan said:


> Apologies... I was unclear. I meant the possibility that the I/O bezel plate (the oval section encompassing the ports) remained as a unit that could be attache to a decorative front plate. ...but that is neither here nor there ... not important to functioning ... to which you addressed marvelously IMO ... DOUBLE THUMBS UP!


Just have to say....Im OTA now with an excellent Dig Antenna, pointed right at the dig transponding tower @ Mt Soledad in San Diego! Got rid of the cable card, signed up for Hulu Live TV (44.00 Mo.) and then we just have Tier 2 of Cox's Internet and a digital phone pkg connected to the service (ISP) just for discount purpose! From 229.00 a month...Down to 100.06 a month in addition to Hulu's live TV set up, everything is working perfect! And the cooling of the Bolt is Fine Now!!! Cable card really heated up! And were saving about 800.00, actually a bit more annually! A couple of two people even with a second tier plan, and were not gamers...our data usage out of 1024GB per month.... we only use about 7-8% of that a month! Ching!!!! Save, and Much Cooler!


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## GardenBear

GardenBear said:


> Just have to say....Im OTA now with an excellent Dig Antenna, pointed right at the dig transponding tower @ Mt Soledad in San Diego! Got rid of the cable card, signed up for Hulu Live TV (44.00 Mo.) and then we just have Tier 2 of Cox's Internet and a digital phone pkg connected to the service (ISP) just for discount purpose! From 229.00 a month...Down to 100.06 a month in addition to Hulu's live TV set up, everything is working perfect! And the cooling of the Bolt is Fine Now!!! Cable card really heated up! And were saving about 800.00, actually a bit more annually! A couple of two people even with a second tier plan, and were not gamers...our data usage out of 1024GB per month.... we only use about 7-8% of that a month! Ching!!!! Save, and Much Cooler!


PS...Also have added SSD's to both PC's, and they both start up ready to go lightning fast, in 30 seconds or less...so much less time on the internet!


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## richsadams

GardenBear said:


> Just have to say....Im OTA now with an excellent Dig Antenna, pointed right at the dig transponding tower @ Mt Soledad in San Diego! Got rid of the cable card, signed up for Hulu Live TV (44.00 Mo.) and then we just have Tier 2 of Cox's Internet and a digital phone pkg connected to the service (ISP) just for discount purpose! From 229.00 a month...Down to 100.06 a month in addition to Hulu's live TV set up, everything is working perfect! And the cooling of the Bolt is Fine Now!!! Cable card really heated up! And were saving about 800.00, actually a bit more annually! A couple of two people even with a second tier plan, and were not gamers...our data usage out of 1024GB per month.... we only use about 7-8% of that a month! Ching!!!! Save, and Much Cooler!


Nice! We've thought about "cutting the cord" for years now but currently we're living too far away from any broadcast towers for OTA. Interesting that the cable card generates enough heat to be noticed though.


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## RegGuheert

I have a brand new Bolt OTA and I am wondering how you guys are reading ODT. I have looked at the number at TE4:TiVo->MENU->HELP->Account & System Info->System Information->ODT a few times over the four days I have had the unit and it has ALWAYS read 59. I will assume the units are degrees Celsius. Maybe it's that stable, but I don't think so. During that time I have raised the unit up from sitting on the component below it to up on three-quarter-inch blocks. Additionally, the temperature in this room changes about 3 to 5 degrees Celsius (maybe more) throughout the course of each day, so the TiVo's temperature should not be more stable than that.

Do I need to do a reboot of my Bolt OTA in TE4 each time I want to see this number updated? Otherwise, where can I watch ODT change in real time? TIA.


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## Mikeguy

I just check my ODT there--it's different at different times. (Right now: 48 in a 69° F. room, with the TiVo box sitting on a fan cooling pad set on low.)


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## RegGuheert

Mikeguy said:


> I just check my ODT there--it's different at different times. (Right now: 48 in a 69° F. room, with the TiVo box sitting on a fan cooling pad set on low.)


Sure enough! I look at it this morning and it reads 57. Finally a different number! Thanks!


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## JoeKustra

RegGuheert said:


> Sure enough! I look at it this morning and it reads 57. Finally a different number! Thanks!


From TiVo: TiVo Holiday Trade-In, Trade-Up Sale: trade in your Roamio OTA/VOX (plus $299.98) for a Bolt OTA

I suggest a quiet fan behind the Bolt that blows the exhaust away from it.


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## Mikeguy

JoeKustra said:


> From TiVo: TiVo Holiday Trade-In, Trade-Up Sale: trade in your Roamio OTA/VOX (plus $299.98) for a Bolt OTA
> 
> I suggest a quiet fan behind the Bolt that blows the exhaust away from it.


@TiVo_Ted last here on Feb. 6.


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## CIR-Engineering

JoeKustra said:


> From TiVo: TiVo Holiday Trade-In, Trade-Up Sale: trade in your Roamio OTA/VOX (plus $299.98) for a Bolt OTA
> 
> I suggest a quiet fan behind the Bolt that blows the exhaust away from it.


Trouble is everything runs too hot in the BOLT. This is why we see so many tuner failures and it isn't helping the HD either.

craigr


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## shannon94188

I'm curious - folks who have improved their cooling via ideas from this thread, have your boxes stayed up or succumbed to the four flashing lights of fun? I had the cable card door off mine, but my Bolt died today (and it was a replacement for one that died 14 months ago). Thanks!


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## DaveB673

I have been experimenting with TiVo Bolt cooling a little. Has anyone else tried standing the Bolt vertically on it's short straight side, with the angled side in the air? That puts the (small) exhaust fan at the top, and since heat rises, it seems to help. I have seen an 8-10 degree ODT drop by doing this. Mine was running 63-64 flat, even with some 1/4" spacers at each corner. But, when I turned it vertical with the fan up top the ODT dropped to 53-55. You will need to ensure the case has a little space to draw air at the vent holes, but that's pretty easy. 
No other mods at the moment, but I do have a XM-2 Blacksilentfan and an idea or two to try.


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## aaronwt

I just use the Blacksilent fan in my two Bolts and then the Bolts are located on a wire shelf.
That has worked well for the last few years.


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## UCLABB

shannon94188 said:


> I'm curious - folks who have improved their cooling via ideas from this thread, have your boxes stayed up or succumbed to the four flashing lights of fun? I had the cable card door off mine, but my Bolt died today (and it was a replacement for one that died 14 months ago). Thanks!


after my first Bolt died, I went with cooling. Bolt still died a year later. I moved to an external 3.5" drive.


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## bkc56

As suggested (somewhere), I removed the cover over the cable card, and put them on wire racks that lift them up a half-inch or so for better airflow.


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## PedjaR

I had a Bolt+ sitting on top of a cooler with a couple of fans blowing at it, and temperature was around 50, noticeably down from before using fans. Still died before it was 2 years old. I had several TiVos, some fairly old, and this is the first one that died. TIVO shipped me a replacement, which I have decided not to cool. Perhaps the cooler blew to much dust into it?


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## BobCamp1

PedjaR said:


> I had a Bolt+ sitting on top of a cooler with a couple of fans blowing at it, and temperature was around 50, noticeably down from before using fans. Still died before it was 2 years old. I had several TiVos, some fairly old, and this is the first one that died. TIVO shipped me a replacement, which I have decided not to cool. Perhaps the cooler blew to much dust into it?


No, that's not the problem. The cooling in the Bolt is adequate. There are quite a few posts that show that the extra cooling doesn't help hard drive longevity in the Bolts. There is no need to modify the cooling unless you have one that is noisy, and then all you need is a capacitor since it is electrical noise not mechanical.

Your cell phone and TV get hotter internally than your Tivo does, yet I don't see anybody strapping laptop coolers to them.


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## Mikeguy

BobCamp1 said:


> No, that's not the problem. The cooling in the Bolt is adequate. There are quite a few posts that show that *the extra cooling doesn't help hard drive longevity in the Bolts. *There is no need to modify the cooling unless you have one that is noisy, and then all you need is a capacitor since it is electrical noise not mechanical.
> 
> Your cell phone and TV get hotter internally than your Tivo does, yet I don't see anybody strapping laptop coolers to them.


Absent a study with a substantial number of Bolt boxes in it, I'm not quite sure how the stated proposition could be established. There also are posts where users swear the opposite, i.e. that the extra cooling has helped (although that hasn't been limited to the hard drive, typically). Just as a facial matter, it seems that less heat often is beneficial for electronics.


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## BobCamp1

Mikeguy said:


> Absent a study with a substantial number of Bolt boxes in it, I'm not quite sure how the stated proposition could be established. There also are posts where users swear the opposite, i.e. that the extra cooling has helped (although that hasn't been limited to the hard drive, typically). Just as a facial matter, it seems that less heat often is beneficial for electronics.


The sample size isn't great. But if it worked, I'd expect the number of failures would drop a lot.

Also, heat doesn't kill electronics like we thought it did. We in the embedded design industry are rethinking how we design and test things. We've stopped "burning in" components before shipping because it just doesn't help with anything. We've noticed that large temperature changes play a much bigger role.


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## Mikeguy

BobCamp1 said:


> The sample size isn't great. But if it worked, I'd expect the number of failures would drop a lot.


Just think how much_ higher_ it would have been, otherwise. 


> Also, heat doesn't kill electronics like we thought it did. We in the embedded design industry are rethinking how we design and test things. We've stopped "burning in" components before shipping because it just doesn't help with anything. We've noticed that large temperature changes play a much bigger role.


That's ~kinda-sorta the position that TiVo_Ted stated here: that the reported ODT temperatures is not an issue.


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## DaveB673

Pictures:


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## CIR-Engineering

The thing is that it’s not just the ODT that is problematic. Yes, the SoC can probably easily run around 90 degrees C, but the rest of the box suffers. It’s not just TiVo, but I spend a lot of time re-balling and reworking chips these days... The solder joints just don’t hold up well at high temperatures. Also, many have had tuner chips fail as well as other components.

To each his own, but I have not had a BOLT failure yet and I put 120mm fans on them as soon as I get them.

craigr


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## Balzer

DaveB673 said:


> Pictures:


I can confirm that this does make a difference. After setting my Bolt up like this, the OBT decreased about 10 degrees.


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## BobCamp1

CIR-Engineering said:


> The thing is that it's not just the ODT that is problematic. Yes, the SoC can probably easily run around 90 degrees C, but the rest of the box suffers. It's not just TiVo, but I spend a lot of time re-balling and reworking chips these days... The solder joints just don't hold up well at high temperatures. Also, many have had tuner chips fail as well as other components.
> 
> To each his own, but I have not had a BOLT failure yet and I put 120mm fans on them as soon as I get them.
> 
> craigr


The ODT can easily run at 110 C. I suspect the rest of the box is in the 40's. Plenty cold enough.

The solder joints fail because:

1. It's 2020 and still nobody knows how to correctly flow lead-free solder. 
2. As I said above, drastic and frequent temperature changes will expand and contract the lead-free solder, causing cracks. Lead-free solder, as you know, has a higher melting point so high temperatures aren't the problem except when you're trying to get the solder to flow.

I also have not had a Bolt failure and I use stock cooling. I suspect most people stick with the stock cooling. Failures can be caused by lots of different things, you can't just blame operational heat.


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