# DirecTv with TiVo



## ESPN88 (Dec 24, 2007)

what is the latest DirecTV with built in TiVo? and can it view all the HD channels?


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## tfederov (Jul 6, 2003)

HR10-250 is the latest (and only) HD DIRECTV with TiVo receiver and the R10 is the latest SD. If you want all of the HD channels you're going to have to upgrade to an HR20/HR21 which doesn't have TiVo software. If you would like to compare receivers, see my sig.


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## Racer-X (Dec 22, 2007)

Moreover, The HR10-250 uses the MPEG-2 HD service that DirecTV is discontinuing in early 2008 The HR2Xs are MPEG-4 and not TiVo-based. So, if want a TiVo-based system, you are SOL with DirecTV. I recently faced this choice, and replaced 2 HR10-250s (which I had upgraded to a terabyte) with 2 TiVo HDs with external eSata drives. Benefits of this are:
* ability to use MRV and TTG without hacking the system
* more recent software, for example the "recently deleted" folder (not on HR10)
* schedule programs on the Internet

Not quite as much disk space, but you can offload programs to your PC and then transfer back, so disk space is not as much of an issue with the TiVO HDs.

I kept the old HR10s around as they still had a lot of unwatched programming on them (yes, they still work after your access card is deactivated).


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## badmonkey (Apr 8, 2003)

Racer-X said:


> Moreover, The HR10-250 uses the MPEG-2 HD service that DirecTV is discontinuing in early 2008 The HR2Xs are MPEG-4 and not TiVo-based. So, if want a TiVo-based system, you are SOL with DirecTV. I recently faced this choice, and replaced 2 HR10-250s (which I had upgraded to a terabyte) with 2 TiVo HDs with external eSata drives. Benefits of this are:....


It depends what's most important to the OP. The HD content on DirecTV may be more important to the OP than the hardware on which he/she is watching it. Each user has to make their own decision as to what is more important.

As tfederov said, check out his sig for a comprehensive comparison of HD DVR's.


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

ESPN88 said:


> what is the latest DIRECTV with built in TiVo? and can it view all the HD channels?


None.

The most national HD channels the HD DIRECTiVo could ever get was 9. At some point those MPEG2 HD channels will switched to only MPEG4.

There are 87 national HD MPEG4 channels that the HR20 and HR21 customers receive. They can also receive the MPEG2 HD.

Here is what we know of the MPEG2 HD Shutdown Schedule:
 MLB EI will be only MPEG4 starting in April.
 NLF ST will be only MPEG4 starting in August.
 LA locals will only be MPEG4 rumored for Q1.
 NY locals will only be MPEG4 rumored by year end.

DIRECTV replaced the HD DVR DIRECTiVo (HR10) with the HR20/21 about 18 months ago. It is not a TiVo. No cartoon guy will wave at you.

One feature that TiVo owners were missing was DLB. A great DLB workaround has just come out in the beta test software and should be national soon.

Here is the TiVo Users Survival Guide to the HR20/21.

Many of the HR20/21's features are not documented but can be found here.

Here you will find many TiVo owners who do not have HR20/21's sharing their opinions. At DBSTalk, you can hear what 20,000 or so HR20/21 users say: 
DirecTV HR20/HR21 Q&A

- Craig


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

What Milo and tfederov don't mention in the discussions is the usability - i.e. how well folks like the 'feel' of the box, and of course, that is one of the most controversial points.

A large number of Tivo users don't like the new boxes, because they aren't intuitive, among other things.

The other real problem is that you will need to add a 2-year commitment to DirecTV without ever getting the chance to try the new dvr at home. That could cost you up to $480 (20 per month) if you don't like the box. 

Because, of these 2 issues, I suggest you do some research first.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

if you send the equipment back to DTV when you cancel there is no cancellation fee correct?


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

RS4 said:


> A large number of Tivo users don't like the new boxes, because they aren't intuitive.


I disagree with that. My wife was able to use the HR20 instantly. She is definitely not technically inclined yet she had no problem adapting to the HR20. There are things on the HR10 I liked better like DLBs and the 30 second skip but there are things I like better on the HR20 as well like the speed and the quick menu. I think Tfederov's link is an excellent place to start with the research.


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## madbeachcat (Jan 31, 2002)

Gunnyman said:


> if you send the equipment back to DTV when you cancel there is no cancellation fee correct?


Not anymore. You have to send it back, since it's a lease, and pay the pro-rated cancellation fee.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

RS4 said:


> What Milo and tfederov don't mention in the discussions is the usability - i.e. how well folks like the 'feel' of the box, and of course, that is one of the most controversial points.
> 
> A large number of Tivo users don't like the new boxes, because they aren't intuitive.
> 
> ...


And it appears a large number prefer content rather then a windows 3.0 type gui on the hr10.

Content > old style gui anytime

Your constant comment about the ETF also applied to the HR10 if the end user did not like it -


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

Gunnyman said:


> if you send the equipment back to DTV when you cancel there is no cancellation fee correct?


I just answered this in another forum but with either DIRECTV or TiVo there is a contract. Here is that answer...

I compared the cost at directv.com and tivo.com.

First let's give TiVo two key advantages:
1. Let's assume you did not know how to get discounts and paid full price to DIRECTV ($299).
2. Let's assume you knew ahead of time how long you would end up with TiVo and prepaid your subscription if possible.

If you went with TiVo and Cable, you could buy a TiVo for $612.94 and agree to only a 1-year TiVo subscription at $12.95 per month PER DVR. You would also pay the Cable company or DIRECTV their monthly package and service fees.

*How much will you end up paying for the TiVo or DIRECTV HR20/21 receiver?*

That answer depends on how long you keep the receiver.

Look at what your out of pocket expenses would be just for the receivers.

3 MONTHS
*TiVo* - $612.94 (initial)+ 3 x $12.95 (monthly subscription) + 9 x $12.95 (early termination) = $768.34
*HR20/21* - $299 (initial) + 3 x $5 (monthly lease) + 21 x $20 (early termination)= $734.

6 MONTHS
*TiVo* - $612.94 (initial)+ 6 x $12.95 (monthly subscription) + 6 x $12.95 (early termination) = $768.34
*HR20/21* - $299 (initial) + 6 x $5 (monthly lease) + 18 x $20 (early termination)= $689.

12 MONTHS
*TiVo* - $612.94 (initial) + $129 (12 month subscription) = $728.99
*HR20/21* - $299 (initial) + 12 x $5 (monthly lease) + 12 x $20 (early termination)= $599.

18 MONTHS
*TiVo* - $612.94 (initial) + $129 (12-month subscription) + 6 x $12.95 (monthly fee) = $806.69
*HR20/21* - $299 (initial) + 18 x $5 (monthly lease) + 6 x $20 (early termination)= $509.

24 MONTHS
*TiVo* - $612.94 (initial)+ $249 (24-month subscription) = $848.99
*HR20/21* - $299 (initial) + 24 x $5 (monthly lease) = $419.

36 MONTHS
*TiVo* - $612.94 (initial)+ $299 (36-month subscription) = $898.99
*HR20/21* - $299 (initial) + 36 x $5 (monthly lease) = $479.

48 MONTHS
*TiVo* - $612.94 (initial)+ $299 (36-month subscription) + $129 (12-month subscription) = $1,027.99
*HR20/21* - $299 (initial) + 48 x $5 (monthly lease) = $539.

60 MONTHS
*TiVo* - $612.94 (initial)+ $299 (36-month subscription) + $249 (24-month subscription) = $1,147.99
*HR20/21* - $299 (initial) + 60 x $5 (monthly lease) = $599.

Whether you end up keeping your new HD DVR 3, 6, 12, 18, 24, 36. 48, or 60 months, the DIRECTV HR20/21 lease is cheaper than purchasing the HD TiVo.

From about 24 months on, leasing the HR20/21 is about half the cost of buying the TiVo.

- Craig


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

milominderbinder said:


> If you went with TiVo and Cable, you could buy a TiVo for $612.94 and agree to only a 1-year TiVo subscription at $12.95 per month PER DVR. You would also pay the Cable company or DIRECTV their monthly DVR and other service fees.


You picked a Series3, which is nearly 2x the price of the TiVo HD. You do not pay "their monthly DVR" fees to the Cable Co or DirecTV, and neither the Series3 or THD will work with DirecTV.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

badmonkey said:


> It depends what's most important to the OP. The HD content on DirecTV may be more important to the OP than the hardware on which he/she is watching it. Each user has to make their own decision as to what is more important.
> 
> As tfederov said, check out his sig for a comprehensive comparison of HD DVR's.


"A comprehensive comparison of HD DVRs?" Come on, you can't be bothered to be truthful enough to say "satellite DVRs" or do you actually think a comparison that excludes the TiVo HD and S3 is "comprehensive".

Another case of what I'm on about. The DirecTV defenders here are not an unbiased source for information. Their views are centered on the notion that there really are no options besides DirecTV.

If that's your situation and HD content is important to you then you may as well bite the bullet and switch to an HR20 - there is no DirecTV TiVo coming within the foreseeable future and there's reason to believe there may never be another TiVo powered DirecTV DVR.

If you have a cable provider with reasonable pricing and a satisfactory HD lineup then you absolutely should consider switching to cable and TiVO HD.


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

milominderbinder said:


> If you went with TiVo and Cable, you could buy a TiVo for $612.94 and agree to only a 1-year TiVo subscription at $12.95 per month PER DVR.


Your comparison is flawed from the get-go... that's a Series 3. The Tivo HD is $299; exactly the same as the HR20/21. And you are ignoring the fact that you keep the tivo no matter what. At the end of your contract with DTV, they take the box -- you paid $299 to get -- away (and give it the next sucker.) The Tivo (S3 or HD) is still usable without a subscription -- there will be no guide data nor will anything but live TV work, but you can still watch TV on it; the HR20/21 is a brick without a subscription -- you can't even watch what it still has on the drive.

What really pisses me off is the having to continue to pay monthly for a box I have to paid a $299 "lease upgrade fee" to even receive in the first place. (Btw, that pretty much pays for the box right there.)

[Edit: looking at the bill, they're comp'ing the $4.99 lease fee, but who knows how long they'll be doing that.]


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

SullyND said:


> You picked a Series3, which is nearly 2x the price of the TiVo HD. You do not pay "their monthly DVR" fees to the Cable Co or DirecTV, and neither the Series3 or THD will work with DirecTV.


The reduced TiVo is 60% less HD storage. Two of them would not be as much storage as one HR20/21. The closest TiVo can offer is the Series 3 though it is still a third less capacity.

Even if you go with the reduced TiVo, from month 15 on, it is more expensive to buy the reduced TiVo than the HR20/21.

- Craig


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

bigpuma said:


> I disagree with that. My wife was able to use the HR20 instantly. She is definitely not technically inclined yet she had no problem adapting to the HR20. There are things on the HR10 I liked better like DLBs and the 30 second skip but there are things I like better on the HR20 as well like the speed and the quick menu. I think Tfederov's link is an excellent place to start with the research.


I agree with bigpuma.

I've got an HR10-250 that I've had for 3 years on my front projection along with an HR20 that I upgraded to. I still like the DLBs on the HR10 especially for watching 2 games on NFL season ticket. I like the guide setup on the Tivo box better and I like the info for future episodes the the Tivo box returns for searches. I'm more familiar with the Tivo GUI but I don't think that makes it better. The HR20 is growing on me. The remote response is better. The fact that I get HD locals over the dish is better since even with attic mounted antennas my HR10 local HD on NBC especially was spotty at best.

The HR20 is fast. The guide comes up fast. I can set up recordings fast. Upgrading to a large ESata drive is stupidly simple on the HR20 as opposed to being required to have a good computing/Unix background (which I have) and patience for upgrading the drive on the HR10.

I haven't lost any recordings on the HR20 yet. I have had some recordings in the HR10 come back recently with "somebody in your house did something....".

And the worst thing about HR10. If I have an OTA HD channel on in both tuners and the reception is bad in one tuner, the box becomes unresponsive and I have to wait 15-20 seconds between key presses to "get out" of the bad HD channel so I can continue to use the HR10.

Frank


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

Gunnyman said:


> if you send the equipment back to DTV when you cancel there is no cancellation fee correct?


They recently raised the cancellation fee to $20/month.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

milominderbinder said:


> I just answered this in another forum but with either DIRECTV or TiVo there is a contract. Here is that answer...
> 
> I compared the cost at directv.com and tivo.com.
> 
> ...


The two obvious flaws with this analysis is the 30-day timeframe. Tivo gives you a 30-day trial, D* doesn't. That could be worth up to $780.

The other obvious flaw is the resale value of the Tivo dvr. Depending on the length of time it's owned, it could still have significant value.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

bigpuma said:


> I disagree with that. My wife was able to use the HR20 instantly. She is definitely not technically inclined yet she had no problem adapting to the HR20. There are things on the HR10 I liked better like DLBs and the 30 second skip but there are things I like better on the HR20 as well like the speed and the quick menu. I think Tfederov's link is an excellent place to start with the research.


I'm not saying that his link is wrong - what I am saying that it is terribly incomplete because of a huge issue - usability.

What gets me about you folks is you just don't seem to read the forums and other information. It is obvious from several forums, polls, etc that large numbers of Tivo users don't like the HR20 and would pref to have a Tivo - all considerations being equal.

You're just plain misleading someone to not bring up that they may have a big issue with the dvr based on the experience of others. Would you want to be force to spend up to $780 on a product that somewhere over 35% don't like without trying it first? And then add in another 15 - 20% who think it's mediocre? Of course not!!

DirecTV has done a huge disservice to its customers - or potential customers - by not allowing them to try out the box. Now that they've made it even harder and more expensive to return, caution is the word of the day.

Let people make up their own mind by giving them all the facts.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

milominderbinder said:


> The reduced TiVo is 60% less HD storage. Two of them would not be as much storage as one HR20/21. The closest TiVo can offer is the Series 3 though it is still a third less capacity.
> 
> Even if you go with the reduced TiVo, from month 15 on, it is more expensive to buy the reduced TiVo than the HR20/21.
> 
> - Craig


Of course a better comparison might be the price of a reburb S3 since with DirecTV you're just going to get whatever comes off the truck and that may be a refurb.

You also left out the 30 day comparison where the cost is *$0* for TiVo and over $700 for DirecTV.

Here's my own comparison for three years:

TiVo S3: $599
3yr Tivo: $299
cable bundle savings: 36*-$20=-$720
residual value of S3: $200
Total: -$22

So I save over $500 and I get a superior DVR along with a tremendous increase in content options and features.


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

SullyND said:


> You picked a Series3, which is nearly 2x the price of the TiVo HD. You do not pay "their monthly DVR" fees to the Cable Co or DirecTV, and neither the Series3 or THD will work with DirecTV.


OK, let's run the numbers again with the 20-hour TiVo HD. And yes, at least in CHicagoland, Comcast does charge a DVR fee no matter whose' DVR you use. They also charge an FCC fee that DIRECTV does not.

First, lets assume that you can get discounts. Assume you are a new DIRECTV subscriber who can get the HR20 for $299 and get the $20 a month discount for the first 12 months making it cost effectively $59.

Next assume that the 20-Hour TiVo HD is actually 50 hours.

Finally assume that you got a guy who can get you a slightly hot TiVo HD for $200.

Here is the comparison again...

3 MONTHS
*TiVo* - $200 (initial)+ 3 x $12.95 (monthly subscription) + 9 x $12.95 (early termination) = $355.40
*HR20/21* - $299 (initial) - 3 X $20 (monthly discount) + 3 x $5 (monthly lease) + 21 x $20 (early termination)= $674.

6 MONTHS
*TiVo* - $200 (initial)+ 6 x $12.95 (monthly subscription) + 6 x $12.95 (early termination) = $355.40
*HR20/21* - $299 (initial) - 6 X $20 (monthly discount) + 6 x $5 (monthly lease) + 18 x $20 (early termination)= $569.

12 MONTHS
*TiVo* - $200 (initial) + $129 (12 month subscription) = $329.00
*HR20/21* - $299 (initial) -12 X $20 (monthly discount) + 12 x $5 (monthly lease) + 12 x $20 (early termination)= $359.

18 MONTHS
*TiVo* - $200 (initial) + $129 (12-month subscription) + 6 x $12.95 (monthly fee) = $484.40
*HR20/21* - $299 (initial) -12 X $20 (monthly discount) + 18 x $5 (monthly lease) + 6 x $20 (early termination)= $269.

24 MONTHS
*TiVo* - $200 (initial)+ $249 (24-month subscription) = $449
*HR20/21* - $299 (initial) -12 X $20 (monthly discount) + 24 x $5 (monthly lease) = $179.

36 MONTHS
*TiVo* - $200 (initial)+ $299 (36-month subscription) = $599
*HR20/21* - $299 (initial) -12 X $20 (monthly discount) + 36 x $5 (monthly lease) = $239.

48 MONTHS
*TiVo* - $200 (initial)+ $299 (36-month subscription) + $129 (12-month subscription) = $728
*HR20/21* - $299 (initial) -12 X $20 (monthly discount) + 48 x $5 (monthly lease) = $299.

60 MONTHS
*TiVo* - $200 (initial)+ $299 (36-month subscription) + $249 (24-month subscription) = $848
*HR20/21* - $299 (initial) -12 X $20 (monthly discount) + 60 x $5 (monthly lease) = $359.

If you intend to keep the new HD DVR 15 months or longer, the 50-Hour HR20/21 is cheaper to lease ($254) than the 20-Hour HD TiVo costs to buy ($282). This factors in that year old TiVo HD DVR's are selling for about $125 on eBay. Assume a salvage value on the TiVo of $250 and breakeven is at 18 months.

- Craig


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

milominderbinder said:


> OK, let's run the numbers again with the 20-hour TiVo HD. And yes, at least in CHicagoland, Comcast does charge a DVR fee no matter whose' DVR you use. They also charge an FCC fee that DIRECTV does not.


This doesn't change the fact that many people can save money over the monthly cost of DirecTV with packaged services from their cable company.

Since the DirecTV folks here are fully in support of "don't judge what you haven't tried", here's something we can all get behind. If you have a viable cable option call your cable company and find out if they offer a money back guarantee and a package with cable cards that is acceptable in content and price. If so, sign up and then order your money back guaranteed TiVo HD and TiVo service and try the whole thing for a few weeks. If you decide it's not for your then you can cancel it all at no cost and call DirecTV and sign up for their TiVoectomy service.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

milominderbinder said:


> And yes, at least in Chicagoland, Comcast does charge a DVR fee no matter whose DVR you use. They also charge an FCC fee that DIRECTV does not.


Are you calling the CableCard fees DVR fees? Otherwise I think you live in a different "Chicagoland" than I do.


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

nrc said:


> This doesn't change the fact that many people can save money over the monthly cost of DirecTV with packaged services from their cable company.
> 
> Since the DirecTV folks here are fully in support of "don't judge what you haven't tried", here's something we can all get behind. If you have a viable cable option call your cable company and find out if they offer a money back guarantee and a package with cable cards that is acceptable in content and price. If so, sign up and then order your money back guaranteed TiVo HD and TiVo service and try the whole thing for a few weeks. If you decide it's not for your then you can cancel it all at no cost and call DirecTV and sign up for their TiVoectomy service.


NRC,

Long ago, you put your money where your mouth was. You chose TiVo over DIRECTV. Yes, you considered price and channels. But to you TiVo is simply a better product.

I respect you for standing by your convictions.

At some point others will see that the divorce was finalized on 2/10/06. TiVo still has the kids every other weekend through 2010. And DIRECTV has the new babe.

- Craig


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

bigpuma said:


> I disagree with that. My wife was able to use the HR20 instantly. She is definitely not technically inclined yet she had no problem adapting to the HR20. There are things on the HR10 I liked better like DLBs and the 30 second skip but there are things I like better on the HR20 as well like the speed and the quick menu. I think Tfederov's link is an excellent place to start with the research.


The new beta test software for the HR20 gives you an option for a true 30 Second Skip. I forgot how much I like that!

Also, it gives a new DLB workaround. It is not as slick as TiVo but you will be able to click back and forth between two games.

- Craig


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

RS4 said:


> I'm not saying that his link is wrong - what I am saying that it is terribly incomplete because of a huge issue - usability.
> 
> What gets me about you folks is you just don't seem to read the forums and other information. It is obvious from several forums, polls, etc that large numbers of Tivo users don't like the HR20 and would pref to have a Tivo - all considerations being equal.
> 
> ...


Why would I worry about what other people think when I am giving my opinion. I have used DirecTiVos for over 5 years and I have used an HR20 for 14 months. I think I am well qualified to tell people that I see no problem with the usability of the HR20 especially since my wife picked it up right away.


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

nrc said:


> "A comprehensive comparison of HD DVRs?" Come on, you can't be bothered to be truthful enough to say "satellite DVRs" or do you actually think a comparison that excludes the TiVo HD and S3 is "comprehensive".
> 
> Another case of what I'm on about. The DirecTV defenders here are not an unbiased source for information. Their views are centered on the notion that there really are no options besides DirecTV.
> 
> ...


I'm sure that I am guilty of this as I really don't have an option other than DirecTV or DISHNet since my cable company doesn't even offer HD at this time and FIOS isn't an option in my area. So really my only comparisons consider satelite options which doesn't include the Series 3 or TiVo HD. I agree that when someone is making the decision on which way to go they need to consider all of their particular options in their area.


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

milominderbinder said:


> The new beta test software for the HR20 gives you an option for a true 30 Second Skip. I forgot how much I like that!
> 
> Also, it gives a new DLB workaround. It is not as slick as TiVo but you will be able to click back and forth between two games.
> 
> - Craig


Yeah I saw mention of the 30 second skip which would make me very happy. I may have to try downloading the next CE. The only time I care about DLBs is during football season but a lot of people really like it.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

milominderbinder said:


> OK, let's run the numbers again with the 20-hour TiVo HD. And yes, at least in CHicagoland, Comcast does charge a DVR fee no matter whose' DVR you use. They also charge an FCC fee that DIRECTV does not.
> 
> First, lets assume that you can get discounts. Assume you are a new DIRECTV subscriber who can get the HR20 for $299 and get the $20 a month discount for the first 12 months making it cost effectively $59.
> 
> ...


Again this is flawed. How do you know that I won't get a new-customer discount when I switch to Comcast? Jeepers - do an honest comparison.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

I do believe that this has gotten a bit off topic. 

The original question was answered in post #2.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

RS4 said:


> Again this is flawed. How do you know that I won't get a new-customer discount when I switch to Comcast? Jeepers - do an honest comparison.


How do you know you will?
How do you know you won't get a discount on the HR20/21 equipment?
How do you know you won't be able to get the cancel fee for DirecTV waived?

There is no way that you can do a comparison that factors in every single factor for each system.... that covers EVERY consumer... as in just about every market for cable-co's... the price points, features, fees are different.

What about installation costs? 
What about other receivers in the house (as depending which carrier you go, you need to account for those other TV's in the house).

There are so many different options, there is no perfect comparison.

But the two different options, are not drastically different in cost.
Maybe some people can swing very widly based on what options they get, and direction they go... and they day they chose to go (as I see a T3 for $399 up in the banner right now)..

But way way back to the original point of the thread.

There is no option to get the latest DirecTV HD content, and keep your TiVo software.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

bigpuma said:


> Yeah I saw mention of the 30 second skip which would make me very happy. I may have to try downloading the next CE. The only time I care about DLBs is during football season but a lot of people really like it.


You may not even have to do that...
It will be going national very soon.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> How do you know you will?
> How do you know you won't get a discount on the HR20/21 equipment?
> 
> How do you know you won't be able to get the cancel fee for DirecTV waived?
> ...


I saw mention of a $100 rebate in the other forum, but anything beyond that is a crapshoot.

Are you saying that D* is now waiving the cancellation fees?


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

RS4 said:


> I saw mention of a $100 rebate in the other forum, but anything beyond that is a crapshoot.
> 
> Are you saying that D* is now waiving the cancellation fees?


There are people that have had their cancellation fees waived....
They are not waiving them for everyone... but those that have valid reasons have been successfull in getting DirecTV to waive the fees.


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## badmonkey (Apr 8, 2003)

nrc said:


> "A comprehensive comparison of HD DVRs?" Come on, you can't be bothered to be truthful enough to say "satellite DVRs" or do you actually think a comparison that excludes the TiVo HD and S3 is "comprehensive".
> 
> Another case of what I'm on about. The DirecTV defenders here are not an unbiased source for information. Their views are centered on the notion that there really are no options besides DirecTV.
> 
> ...


And all the TiVo supporters who comment on a box they haven't even tried are unbiased? Please...

It wasn't a question of me being 'truthful' or otherwise. The OP asked a question about DirecTV and TV in reference to HD. TFederov's comparison is absolutely relevant to the question at hand.

Sure, the OP can go with cable and an HD TiVo. That's his choice. But then the question should be asked in a non-DirecTV forum.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

RS4 said:


> A large number of Tivo users don't like the new boxes, because they aren't intuitive, among other things.


Here you go again. You constantly flame me for 'fraudulently' voting in an opinion poll because I had used an HR20 quite often but had not actually leased it yet. But here you go not only speaking for others, but on top of that have not used or leased an HR20 yourself. Just the same BS over and over.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

badmonkey said:


> And all the TiVo supporters who comment on a box they haven't even tried are unbiased? Please...


You guys squeal about this everytime someone makes a negative observation about the HR20 whether or not it requires any first hand experience. The HR20 has recieved many negative reviews here, on CNET, Epinions, and elsewhere. Citing the existance of these views doesn't require first hand experience with the HR20.



> It wasn't a question of me being 'truthful' or otherwise. The OP asked a question about DirecTV and TV in reference to HD. TFederov's comparison is absolutely relevant to the question at hand.


This is a topic for users of the HR10-250 on a TiVo forum. Discussion of other DVRs is permitted for the benefit of those users as they make choices on when and whether to switch to new equipment. Since the Series 3 DVRs are very much an option for those users it's very relevant to this topic.

As for the OP, their question was thoroughly answered in the very first response. Your post was in response to someone commenting on their own experience switching to the TiVo HD. In that context claiming that tfederov offers a "comprehensive comparison of HD DVR's" is just another attempt to dismiss the TiVo HD options.

There really is no choice to be made by HR10-250 owners who are determined to stay with DirecTV. They'll have to give up their TiVo to stay with DirecTV and recieve HD channels. It's those who are willing to consider other options who have a choice to make.


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## badmonkey (Apr 8, 2003)

nrc said:


> You guys squeal about this everytime someone makes a negative observation about the HR20 whether or not it requires any first hand experience. The HR20 has recieved many negative reviews here, on CNET, Epinions, and elsewhere. Citing the existance of these views doesn't require first hand experience with the HR20.
> 
> This is a topic for users of the HR10-250 on a TiVo forum. Discussion of other DVRs is permitted for the benefit of those users as they make choices on when and whether to switch to new equipment. Since the Series 3 DVRs are very much an option for those users it's very relevant to this topic.
> 
> ...


So, what's your agenda? It's obvious that you must work for TiVo...

Oh, wait, that's the argument that the TiVo faithful use to label anyone who actually thinks the HR2x is a good (arguably better than TiVo) DVR...

I was merely pointing out that there is more to the equation that TiVo vs. HR2x. The content carries a different level of importance to each user. My response was simply to provide the other side of the argument to the 'switch to cable to keep TiVo' stance.

But, again, you guys always get up in arms when someone says something good about DirecTV or their DVRs. I'd say it's time for you to let it go and get over the childish 'my DVR is better than yours' attitude. There is no winning position in the argument about TiVo vs HR2x (or any other DVR, for that matter). Each user will have to make their own decision based on the available information. I (and I'm sure others) only try to level the playing field with some objective, informed (yes, I've used both the HR10 and the HR20 extensively) information. It's really easy for someone looking for some real data to get caught up in the emotional arguments made by most of the TiVo fanatics and think that the information in those posts is accurate when it most often is not.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

madbeachcat said:


> Not anymore. You have to send it back, since it's a lease, and pay the pro-rated cancellation fee.


Ah seince I don't have any leased equipment nor am I locked in to a contract, I missed that change.
Thanks for the clarification.


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## madbeachcat (Jan 31, 2002)

Gunnyman said:


> Ah seince I don't have any leased equipment nor am I locked in to a contract, I missed that change.
> Thanks for the clarification.


You are welcome.


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## ESPN88 (Dec 24, 2007)

Thanks guys,, great help.


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## cowboys2002 (Jun 15, 2001)

My HR2x install is scheduled for Saturday.

The fugure above hold true for me except that I am getting by HR2X for FREE with a new LNB. Yes, I am committing to 2 years, but I don't envision switching providers anytime soon.

I looked at overall start-up costs and programming options.

With 3 Directivo's on the house currently, I would have to buy 1 HD Tivo (Series 3 or Tivo HD), plus 2 dual tuner series 2's for the other TV's in the house.

Keep in mind the $99 a month triple play does not include:

HD Content
DVR fees
Cable Card fees
Installation fees (comcast digital voice installation runs $99 in Houston).

I recently purchased my 1st HDTV. I am ejoying OTA broadcast with an antenna, although I can't record it.

I know where and how to obtain the current MPEG 2 box (new and used), but why buy something that you know is being phased out and won't receive the HD content you want in the next 1-12 months?

I look at purchasing Series 2 Units the same. These usnits will not work with Digital signals past 2/2009 (unless you are using basic cable),correct?

I chose content over interface, I have already braced the family for the new interface vs. more content.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

badmonkey said:


> But, again, you guys always get up in arms when someone says something good about DirecTV or their DVRs. I'd say it's time for you to let it go and get over the childish 'my DVR is better than yours' attitude. There is no winning position in the argument about TiVo vs HR2x (or any other DVR, for that matter). Each user will have to make their own decision based on the available information. I (and I'm sure others) only try to level the playing field with some objective, informed (yes, I've used both the HR10 and the HR20 extensively) information. It's really easy for someone looking for some real data to get caught up in the emotional arguments made by most of the TiVo fanatics and think that the information in those posts is accurate when it most often is not.


This is always a hoot - you guys are objective because you have them in your house, but we are subjective because we've never owned one.

I'm glad you guys enjoy your box, I truly am. But I don't like all of this misleading information that you hand out like its fact. Just because you like the box doesn't mean others won't and yet I've seen time after time - "you'll love it" or "you'll get used to it"

None of us knows whether another person will 'love' a box or 'get used to it'. And of course this wouldn't even be an issue if D* weren't ugly about their terms and conditions. But the fact remains that empirical evidence shows that large numbers of - as high as 50% - Tivo users don't like the box. In addition to that, we still don't see the numbers of Tivo users saying the D* boxes are better than Tivo - one poll I saw only showed 5% thinking it was better.

The one comparison page that was mentioned does not even address the interface with the user, nor does it contain any mention of the Tivo HD boxes, so that page is totally misleading.

So, when it comes to answering the question for the Tivo users on this Tivo forum, be honest enough to point out the issues with D*'s terms of service and that a large number of people don't like the box.

An HR10-250 user has 4 options:
1. Get the Hr20 from D*.
2. Switch to cable and get a Tivo
3. Switch to E* 
4. Do nothing at this time


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## narrod (Nov 23, 2002)

RS4 said:


> An HR10-250 user has 4 options:
> 1. Get the Hr20 from D*.
> 2. Switch to cable and get a Tivo
> 3. Switch to E*
> 4. Do nothing at this time


Option 5: *****ing endlessly about the same topic.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

RS4, why is it any more misleading to say you like a receiver vs. saying you don't like it? 
Do you think people are that stupid that just because a couple people say they like the HR20 that they will automatically like it as well? And how are people being misleading saying that they honestly like the box? Just doesn't make sense. Unless you feel people reading this forum are 8 year olds and can't think for themselves you don't need to hold their hand and whisper in their ear "you know just becuase so and so likes the HR20 doesn't mean you will". I think it's rather obvious that everyone will have to figure it out for themselves.


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## badmonkey (Apr 8, 2003)

RS4 said:


> This is always a hoot - you guys are objective because you have them in your house, but we are subjective because we've never owned one.
> 
> I'm glad you guys enjoy your box, I truly am. But I don't like all of this misleading information that you hand out like its fact. Just because you like the box doesn't mean others won't and yet I've seen time after time - "you'll love it" or "you'll get used to it"
> 
> ...


I'm not pointing fingers, but we HR20 users aren't the ones spreading misinformation. I use mine every day and my comments are based on my experience - and only my experiences. But my experiences are real.

You're misunderstanding what objective vs subjective means... Objective means quantifiable items - better recording reliability, more stable, faster. Subjective basically means personal preference - I like the picture in guide and DoD. You not having used the box doesn't make your point subjective. Someone claiming that the picture in guide is horrible and shouldn't be there is subjective.

I base my comments primarily on objective items. My HR20's are more reliable than my HR10s ever were (that's an objective comment). I like the features and look and feel of the HR20 better (that's a subjective comment).


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

I don't think there's been any scientific poll of Tivo users that have moved to the HR20. Even if there was one it would be based on people who didn't care that much about Tivo to begin with. I must have read a thousand quotes on these pages over the past year. Nearly all the quotes by people who are happy with the HR20 don't deal with the three main reasons I'm holding on to my Tivo(remote, wishlists, guide). 
I'm happy with the 12 HD channels I currently get with my HDtivo. Additionally a growing number of SD channels are masking their feeds so I can zoom them to fill the screen. After reading about the very large number of Directv customers that will still be only able to get HD channels in mpeg2 at the end of next year I'm pretty confident that they'll still be there for at least that long. No one knows what might happen in negotiations between Directv & Tivo during that time.


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## jmanca (Dec 27, 2007)

well I have to say I'm really dreading this but it looks like we are going to take the plunge into a non-Tivo interface for the first time in 9+ years! We were a beta-tester for the original Phillips model (6/12GB - hacked twice....) and also one of the $1,000 suckers who bought the DirecTivo HD unit when it came out.... 

Obviously I'm most disappointed with DirecTV but I'm bummed that Tivo didn't come up with a program to help migrate customers like me to a great cable deal. I've been putting this off mostly because I can't get myself to pay more money for another Tivo unit! I'm sure we'll hate the new UI but we'll probably have no problem using it.... sad day....


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

nrc said:


> The HR20 has recieved many negative reviews here, on CNET, Epinions, and elsewhere.


Ummm... How about reviews that aren't a year old? The HR10 got it's fair share of being called a POS when it first rolled out too.



nrc said:


> Citing the existance of these views doesn't require first hand experience with the HR20.


LOL, I voted in an opinon poll when I had first hand experience with the HR20, but got royally flamed because I didn't actually lease one yet. But now it seems to be fine to use the 'you don't even need to use it' to form an opinion.  You lemmings really need to get your stories straight.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

badmonkey said:


> I'm not pointing fingers, but we HR20 users aren't the ones spreading misinformation. I use mine every day and my comments are based on my experience - and only my experiences. But my experiences are real.
> 
> You're misunderstanding what objective vs subjective means... Objective means quantifiable items - better recording reliability, more stable, faster. Subjective basically means personal preference - I like the picture in guide and DoD. You not having used the box doesn't make your point subjective. Someone claiming that the picture in guide is horrible and shouldn't be there is subjective.
> 
> I base my comments primarily on objective items. My HR20's are more reliable than my HR10s ever were (that's an objective comment). I like the features and look and feel of the HR20 better (that's a subjective comment).


Well, you guys keep writing what you feel is necessary and I'll continue to stand up for truth, justice, and the American way!!


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

Cudahy said:


> Nearly all the quotes by people who are happy with the HR20 don't deal with the three main reasons I'm holding on to my Tivo(remote, wishlists, guide).


Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but your reasons seem pretty petty. First, as I've said countless times, I really don't understand why anyone uses an OEM (Tivo or other) remote these days, when there are so many fine universals and people have multiple devices. My several year old MX-500s work great for Tivo and most of the HR20 functions mapped over to the same buttons. So there was almost no learning curve. Heck, I handed the MX remote to my wife 'cold', and she had no problem with the transition. Ok, I don't use Wishlists, but I can see that as a possible liked feature, but not enough to refuse to switch. And lastly, the guide. It's a *DVR*! Who uses the guide anyway? It's funny, I recall old threads about Tivo guide complaints when Tivo first came out and people got flamed for even using it, as watching Live TV was considered blasphemy. <shrug>


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## narrod (Nov 23, 2002)

RS4 said:


> Well, you guys keep writing what you feel is necessary and I'll continue to stand up for truth, justice, and the American way!!


Well, I'll sleep better tonight.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Wow - all we need now is Visionary to complete the quorum!!!


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

carful don't say his name 3 times


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## stevmead (Oct 21, 2002)

Mark Lopez said:


> LOL, I voted in an opinon poll when I had first hand experience with the HR20, but got royally flamed because I didn't actually lease one yet. But now it seems to be fine to use the 'you don't even need to use it' to form an opinion.  You lemmings really need to get your stories straight.


Enough already on the opinon(??) poll. You harp more than my wife.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Gunnyman said:


> carful don't say his name 3 times


I think he has gone his way...


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

stevmead said:


> Enough already on the opinon(??) poll. You harp more than my wife.


It will be enough when those who made the biggest stink about it, quit being the same 'hypocrites' they accused me of being.  But hey, if you don't like it, just follow the advice under my user name.


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## stevmead (Oct 21, 2002)

Mark Lopez said:


> It will be enough when those who made the biggest stink about it, quit being the same 'hypocrites' they accused me of being.  But hey, if you don't like it, just follow the advice under my user name.


DONE


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Mark Lopez said:


> Ummm... How about reviews that aren't a year old? The HR10 got it's fair share of being called a POS when it first rolled out too.


The HR20's average user rating on CNET hasn't improved much over time and there are still plenty of negative reviews on the HR20 posted in the last few months.



> LOL, I voted in an opinon poll when I had first hand experience with the HR20, but got royally flamed because I didn't actually lease one yet. But now it seems to be fine to use the 'you don't even need to use it' to form an opinion.  You lemmings really need to get your stories straight.


It was pretty clear from the poll question that the poster wanted to exclude people who weren't actually leasing a unit. If someone gave a negative opinion or voted negatively on that poll based on your level of experience at the time it would be called out as an uninformed opinion.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

RS4 said:


> DirecTV has done a huge disservice to its customers - or potential customers - by not allowing them to try out the box. Now that they've made it even harder and more expensive to return, caution is the word of the day.
> 
> Let people make up their own mind by giving them all the facts.


They don't do that because they KNOW for sure the DirecTiVo users will cancel their service and go somewhere else. After getting one, that's what I tried to do and they said no. They suckered me into it.

DirecTV knows their machine is inferior to the TiVo when it comes down to basic DVR functions. Murdoch is more interested in VOD among other things that don't really interest me that much and put more emphasis on that stuff rather than the simple DVR stuff.

Yes, I agree with this poster.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

Scott D said:


> They don't do that because they KNOW for sure the DirecTiVo users will cancel their service and go somewhere else. After getting one, that's what I tried to do and they said no. They suckered me into it.
> 
> DirecTV knows their machine is inferior to the TiVo when it comes down to basic DVR functions. Murdoch is more interested in VOD among other things that don't really interest me that much and put more emphasis on that stuff rather than the simple DVR stuff.
> 
> Yes, I agree with this poster.


Have you ever used a HR20 for any appreciable length of time or are you playing the part of a leming and following along with this persons opinions?

Sorry I still use both - have one surviving HR10 and a couple of hr20's (the other hr10 met Mr Remington due to crash problem frustrations with the software). I can speak form both sides of the fence - the hr10 was decent in it's day, it had the same exact teething problems that the hr20 did when it first came out. It is starting to expierence the exact same type of problems (read the crash posts here) again.

I don;t give the south end of a rat going north what the interface is, the current HR10 interface reminds me of a Windows 3.0 GUI when it first came out - slow and clunky.

The bottom line here is content - the HR10 does not, nor will it ever have it, the chances of Tivo every getting back in the D* market place are slim to none, with slim on life support. There HAVE been comparision polls done here and on other websites - if you take the time to go back and search them.

The concept of a product being inferior - is just a concept, it is in the eye of the beholder, if you feel the HR20 is inferior to a HR10, fine, that is your opinion, you have no way of telling what exactly Directtv is thinking, unless you are part of upper management, your statement of "DirecTV knows their machine is inferior to the TiVo when it comes down to basic DVR functions" is your opinion only, unless you or RS4 can document it being said on any valid website.


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

Scott D said:


> ...DirecTV knows their machine is inferior to the TiVo when it comes down to basic DVR functions...


Check out this thread from Ty:

Ty makes nice with HR20? WTF?

_



...So while I still claim my experience was valid 15 months ago, everything I said up until now has become old information, and is now officially outdated and no longer relevant. The new information is that this box has improved markedly, to the point where if the HR10 was MPEG-4 capable, the HR20 would still be a viable contender. And I think that's really saying something. Ty, admitting that the HR20 is in the same league as the HR10, should be considered high praise, indeed. Long story short, (I know...too late) both platforms have their little irksome idiosyncrasies, and there are still things that the HR20 just can't do as well as the HR10, but then it has it's advantages over the HR10's limitations as well...

Click to expand...

_- Craig


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## HazelW (Dec 6, 2007)

nrc said:


> The HR20's average user rating on CNET hasn't improved much over time and there are still plenty of negative reviews on the HR20 posted in the last few months.
> QUOTE]
> 
> There was evan a thread over on DBSTalk.com where someone discovered the negative ratings and tried to get people to go to CNET and put in good reviews to counteract the negatives. It apparently did not work.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

HazelW said:


> nrc said:
> 
> 
> > The HR20's average user rating on CNET hasn't improved much over time and there are still plenty of negative reviews on the HR20 posted in the last few months.
> ...


In that same thread... I actively discouraged people to go over there, unless they were actually intending to rate the unit... vs just voting for the sake of skewing it.

In that same thread... I noted... that the HR20 is not even close to the same unit it was at the start when a lot of the rankings were inputed.

IN that same thread... it was noted that even some of the most current votes... people voted it low... simply because it wasn't a TiVo... no other reason given.


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## Hemi (Jan 9, 2002)

I have an install scheduled for Monday (12/31) when D* will "upgrade" my 2 HR1-250s with HR20s (or so I've been promised) and I have three things on my watch list of known issues with the HR20/21s;

1) Dual live buffers (DLB - I use this almost everytime I watch TV - yes I've read the workaround but it still is not as simple as TiVo)
2) the list of channels I receive (CIR) is locked (which impacts what your searches return and what gets recorded)
3) Season Pass/Series Link limit of only *50* (I currently have 73 on my HR10-250 and another 45 on my old SAT-T60 (still running!) sitting on top of it).

I think that I am going to call back and ensure that with this upgrade, I don't extend my commitment to D* any longer than it already was... I will keep an open mind and give these units a try but if these are as bad as I think they are, I would like the ability to cancel and jump to Comcast or AT&T and buy a "real" TiVo.

Please tell me that in some alternate universe that these issues have been solved and that within a month or two they will be old news. I remember waiting for D* to activate the 2nd tuner in my SAT-T60 but at least I knew that, a) many people were waiting with me and b) it would come since the hardware was already there. Correct me if I am wrong, but all of these issues sound like software fixes and not hardware fixes.

Dan


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## narrod (Nov 23, 2002)

Hemi said:


> I have an install scheduled for Monday (12/31) when D* will "upgrade" my 2 HR1-250s with HR20s (or so I've been promised) and I have three things on my watch list of known issues with the HR20/21s;
> 
> 1) Dual live buffers (DLB - I use this almost everytime I watch TV - yes I've read the workaround but it still is not as simple as TiVo)
> 2) the list of channels I receive (CIR) is locked (which impacts what your searches return and what gets recorded)
> ...


Once they activate them I believe you will have a new commitment and they won't disconnect without charging you. At least, not without a fight. On the positive side I have had two HR20s since August and have been quite pleased. I still have three active Tivos but almost never use them.


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## Scooter (Mar 15, 2000)

Great. Another holy war. Can't someone come in here and ask a simple question without people starting a damn argument in here? Do you realize how juvenile some of you sound? It's getting to be near impossible for someone to get a simple question answered anymore.

My. God.

Scooter


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

stevmead said:


> DONE


Except when something quoted.


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## joed32 (Jul 9, 2005)

Hemi said:


> I have an install scheduled for Monday (12/31) when D* will "upgrade" my 2 HR1-250s with HR20s (or so I've been promised) and I have three things on my watch list of known issues with the HR20/21s;
> 
> 1) Dual live buffers (DLB - I use this almost everytime I watch TV - yes I've read the workaround but it still is not as simple as TiVo)
> 2) the list of channels I receive (CIR) is locked (which impacts what your searches return and what gets recorded)
> ...


Hemi, none of those 3 issues have been resolved. I think you should cancel your install and wait and see if they do get resolved. I don't want you to get stuck with something you don't like. I'm OK with the HR20s but the CIR is the only one of those 3 that affect me. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Scooter said:


> Great. Another holy war. Can't someone come in here and ask a simple question without people starting a damn argument in here? Do you realize how juvenile some of you sound? It's getting to be near impossible for someone to get a simple question answered anymore.


Why is it a "holy war" to prefer TiVo software on a TiVo forum? Why is a it a "holy war" to expect to have features that you've come to rely on? Why is it a "holy war" to expect the kind of service from a company that you've come to expect?

In a dbstalk poll 77% of HR20 owners rated dual live buffers a "must have" feature. Is that a "holy war" or is it okay because they're just too committed to DirecTV to do anything about it?

__________________


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

I don't get it. The name of this page is "Directv HDtv Tivo powered DVRs" and the name of this thread is "Directv with Tivo". Why do people who have given up on DirectvHD tivos even come here? 
Until Malone takes over(over a year now)and makes it clear that there will or will not be a DirectvHDtivo in the future the only real discussion is how long we can or want to keep our DirectvHDtivos. 
Despite "rumors" to the contrary, I'm more optimistic than I used to be that we will keep the dozen HD channels we currently have for at least another year(Directv doesn't seem to be under any technical pressure to eliminate them). They are understandably trying to get more of us to switch to their DVR. I've gotten 3 calls in the last 2 months talking about "eventually" losing my HD channels. But no one knows if negotiations with Tivo are taking place or not since the July statement by Directv that they were negotiating with Tivo about future upgrades. I hope when Malone finally does take over that a reporter will ask him.


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## Hemi (Jan 9, 2002)

Thanks narrod & joed32,

I called D* yesterday and they promised that the upgrade will not extend my commitment. I asked for assurances as to this and they responded that it is noted in my file... we will see. So I've decided to go ahead with the install for now and just see what happens. I'll report back once the new units are up and running.

Dan


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

milominderbinder said:


> Check out this thread from Ty:
> 
> Ty makes nice with HR20? WTF?
> 
> - Craig


Read that already. And that's supposed to change my mind?


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

sjberra said:


> Have you ever used a HR20 for any appreciable length of time or are you playing the part of a leming and following along with this persons opinions?
> 
> Sorry I still use both - have one surviving HR10 and a couple of hr20's (the other hr10 met Mr Remington due to crash problem frustrations with the software). I can speak form both sides of the fence - the hr10 was decent in it's day, it had the same exact teething problems that the hr20 did when it first came out. It is starting to expierence the exact same type of problems (read the crash posts here) again.
> 
> ...


Yes I have had an HR20 long enough to know about it and my findings are valid. Content if you're referring to HD content or number of shows is bullcrap. What good is that content if you don't have a good supporting DVR. If HD content is your savvy, have fun with it. I asked for a DVR that does more than record shows. One thing TiVo has is better style in its operation only in basic DVR functions.

Once again, don't care for VOD, 90 minute buffers or caller ID. I have my reasons and I don't like the style of the HR20. Sorry.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Scott D said:


> Read that already. And that's supposed to change my mind?


Its supposed to help you. Craig is probably not on a mission to change anyone's mind. Believe it or not, no one is arguing the merits of the HR20 here just to make you look like a jagoff for not wanting one. If anyone could understand your point of view that would probably be me. But from your tone I'm skeptical that anything could ever change your mind (even if people WERE trying), which is obviously closed, probably permanently.
Unfortunately, that might put you beyond help and also doesn't do much for your credibility.

The thread Craig referenced is one of many (including this one) that center around a big question (if not the biggest question ever) on these forums: whether (and when) to move to the HR20 from the HR10, or not, or to go somewhere else entirely, since the HR10 has a finite shelf life. If you know anything about Craig, you would also know that his only goal is to help folks make that decision by tirelessly providing neutral information, and that he has no agenda. Most of it is indeed HR2x info. After all, all of the HR10 info is pretty much documented. But those who do appear to have an agenda are rightfully not as well-received here.

From what I'm seeing, if you aren't interested in being a part of civil discussion why do you even bother to attempt to contribute to these threads, other than to try to convince yourself of something? It feels desperate, more like you're struggling for personal validation of your choices rather than presenting valid arguments for the HR10, and it certainly doesn't seem like you're doing it to help anyone else. Some of the HR10 arguments ring true, but most have been heard before, and are usually articulated in a much more acceptable and convincing manner. As someone who used to support the HR10 only, I'm embarrassed to think the same legitimate arguments somehow now sound much less effective coming from certain quarters than they once did coming from others.

I have always supported the HR10, I still do, and now I support the HR2x as well. IMHO, they are pretty close, and the differences are apples and oranges, or not really comparable in a way that elevates one above the other. That leaves others to carry the mantle as the HR10-only army, so I expect them to do that with some dignity and responsibility rather than with cheap shots and lame talking points. Please don't ever disappoint us by sinking to that level.

I used to really hate the HR20 in its early incarnations as well as DTV for going there, but I never had a single-minded hard-on for it, always kept an open mind, and eventually made enough of a journey to embrace it as it evolved. I guess that's what Karl Rove calls a flip-flopper. I'm not saying we should all be like sheep and bend over and grab our ankles regarding the HR2x, but it would be really great if others could at least open their minds a little bit.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But everyone is also entitled to an understanding that not every opinion is factually well-supported or well thought out. Unfortunately you don't have to scroll very far in any of these threads to learn that.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

Scott D said:


> Yes I have had an HR20 long enough to know about it and my findings are valid. Content if you're referring to HD content or number of shows is bullcrap. What good is that content if you don't have a good supporting DVR. If HD content is your savvy, have fun with it. I asked for a DVR that does more than record shows. One thing TiVo has is better style in its operation only in basic DVR functions.
> 
> Once again, don't care for VOD, 90 minute buffers or caller ID. I have my reasons and I don't like the style of the HR20. Sorry.


Your findings are valid for yourself only, personally I find the HR20 light years ahead of the Windows 3.0 style GUI on the TIVO, the last High Def Tivo that I have is installed in the garage with a 19 inch TV, it is used very seldom. Your opinion again on the "good supporting DVR", mine is that the HR20 works better. Again just opinion, that is it. I, to find my findings valid. What exactly does the HR10 do besides record shows - if you are speaking of that stupid suggestion system it had, no thanks, I don;t need it nor do I want it, second thing that was turned off on the HR10s - the first being that annoying sound effect every time yo did something. What a waste of code lines.

Style or not, the unit will be the only one recieving HD broadcasts for DirectTv, they are already offering free upgrades to those that want the NASCAR package in Feb, the baseball package will proably be the next one to offer it.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Scott D said:


> Yes I have had an HR20 long enough to know about it and my findings are valid. Content if you're referring to HD content or number of shows is bullcrap. What good is that content if you don't have a good supporting DVR. If HD content is your savvy, have fun with it. I asked for a DVR that does more than record shows. One thing TiVo has is better style in its operation only in basic DVR functions.
> 
> Once again, don't care for VOD, 90 minute buffers or caller ID. I have my reasons and I don't like the style of the HR20. Sorry.


Honestly, who cares about style? Does the HR20 record your shows? Yes? Then what more do you need?

If you need all the "extras" that Tivo offers then move on over to cable and a Series 3. If for some reason those extras override your need for a DVR that records your shows (and has it's own different set of extras) then more power to ya.


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

Scott D said:


> ...DirecTV knows their machine is inferior to the TiVo when it comes down to basic DVR functions...





milominderbinder said:


> Check out this thread from Ty:
> 
> Ty makes nice with HR20? WTF?
> 
> - Craig





Scott D said:


> Read that already. And that's supposed to change my mind?


Scott,

You stated that 'DIRECTV knows their machine is inferior...' as a statement of fact.

You may feel strongly that your opinions are the right opinions but there are others who have different opinions.

That does not make either opinion right or wrong. They are just opinions.

- Craig


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