# Lost "Enter 77" OAD 3-7-07 *SPOILERS*



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Discuss...


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

meh

So, why did Locke think blowing up the station was a good idea?

Let me get this straight: Rosseau has been on the island for 16 years, but "has never been to that place?" What else is there to do but explore the island for that long?


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Sure was a lot happening this week.

We now know what 3:05 was for sure. Or at least what Locke thinks it is. Wouldn't that bearing have to have a specific starting point to end up at the right end point? Since they all went to find Danielle and then headed on that bearing, wouldn't they end up somewhere else?

Did the russian girl ask the eyepatch guy to shoot her?

No more nicknames for awhile!


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

scottykempf said:


> meh
> 
> So, why did Locke think blowing up the station was a good idea?
> 
> Let me get this straight: Rosseau has been on the island for 16 years, but "has never been to that place?" What else is there to do but explore the island for that long?


Locke didn't know it would blow up. He didn't know about the C4 in the basement. He just followed the instructions on the video.


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

scottykempf said:


> Let me get this straight: Rosseau has been on the island for 16 years, but "has never been to that place?" What else is there to do but explore the island for that long?


Yeah, after 16 years, I think I would be on a first name basis with every rock, tree, and clearing on the island.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

markz said:


> Did the russian girl ask the eyepatch guy to shoot her?


She said something along the lines of "You know what you have to do". He said "Forgive me" before he shot her. Why did you say she was Russian? There aren't many blacks in Russia, and no black Russians.

The weird part is, her Russian was better than his, but that's Hollywood for you -- they always seem to pick a Polish, Ukranian or other Eastern-European actor to play a Russian. There are tons of Russian actors, but they always seem to be getting the minor roles.

By the way, whatever he was reading had several references to the name "Sajeev", which is the name Sayid was using in the flashback. Also several references to "Andrej".


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

wprager said:


> The weird part is, her Russian was better than his, but that's Hollywood for you -- they always seem to pick a ... Ukranian ... to play a Russian.


I thought Eye-Patch told Sayid he was from Kiev?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

markz said:


> Locke didn't know it would blow up. He didn't know about the C4 in the basement. He just followed the instructions on the video.


I think by the time he actually entered it, he knew about the C4.

I also think he would have entered it the first time, not having a clue what would have happened.

It's interesting that Locke can be so plausible both as a very competent person, and as a complete idiot...


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

wprager said:


> She said something along the lines of "You know what you have to do". He said "Forgive me" before he shot her. Why did you say she was Russian? There aren't many blacks in Russia, and no black Russians...


I first type "black girl" and then didn't know if that was an acceptable term anymore, so I meant to type "russian-speaking girl" but somehow just typed "russian girl".


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## fregienj (Feb 1, 2005)

It also looked like Eye-Patch was about to shoot himself in the head after he shot the lady. He also was giving Sayid a reason to kill him by threatening him like that.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

wprager said:


> The weird part is, her Russian was better than his, but that's Hollywood for you -- they always seem to pick a ... Ukranian ... to play a Russian.





stalemate said:


> I thought Eye-Patch told Sayid he was from Kiev?


Well, either way the actor was born in Venezuela


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## nrrhgreg (Aug 30, 2003)

fregienj said:


> It also looked like Eye-Patch was about to shoot himself in the head after he shot the lady. He also was giving Sayid a reason to kill him by threatening him like that.





Spoiler



Well, looks like Locke takes care of him wanting to die next week according to the previews.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

markz said:


> Locke didn't know it would blow up. He didn't know about the C4 in the basement. He just followed the instructions on the video.


The C4 is the first thing Sayid should have mentioned when he and Kate brought Mrs. Klue up from the bunker: "Locke. We found her in the bunker and the whole place is wired with C4. We don't know if she was doing more than hiding ..."


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think by the time he actually entered it, he knew about the C4.


OK, I missed an exchange between Sayid and Locke then. I had the impression Locke didn't know about the explosives.


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## jdfs (Oct 21, 2002)

I am quite sure Locke is a complete idiot. 

How many things is he going to screw up?


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

I like how they're slowly building up Frik and Frak (Paulo and Nikki) with their backtalk to Sawyer, and Paulo really knows how to hold a roll of toilet paper. I also liked how Sawyer refused to take back the Ammo magazine. Come on Sawyer! The TP was still wrapped!

And I really liked when Sawyer turned to Nikki and said, "Who are you anyway?" Was that the fans talking through Sawyer?!


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

stalemate said:


> I thought Eye-Patch told Sayid he was from Kiev?


Good point. I kinda missed it.

Still, Ukraine was a Soviet republic, and Russians (nationality) were everywhere in the FSU.

By the way, here's the Wikipedia page on Michail Bakunin:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Bakunin

One guess what he's famous for.


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## nrrhgreg (Aug 30, 2003)

I don't think Locke knew about the C4, or I missed something to. I think he thought it was really going to save them, send out an SOS someway or something.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

jdfs said:


> I am quite sure Locke is a complete idiot.
> 
> How many things is he going to screw up?


or blow up (Arntz, the first hatch, the second hatch, the farm house)?


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

So all that meat -gone. All that ice-gone. Too bad.

Another 'game' episode. The ping pong table - which means we will never see it used again. And the computer chess game. Which reminded me of Wargames a bit.

And the Dharma flame goes up in flames.

I was happy to see the Clue lady first get backhanded by Kate and then shot dead. No great loss there.

So, the big question I had at the end - when Sayid confessed to the woman in his backflash at the end, was he telling the truth or lying just to get out?


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Telling the truth.


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## nrrhgreg (Aug 30, 2003)

Was the cat from Sayid's flashbacks the same one as on the island? Or just very similar?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

betts4 said:


> So, the big question I had at the end - when Sayid confessed to the woman in his backflash at the end, was he telling the truth or lying just to get out?


Lying. She originally told him that she ultimately confessed to something she didn't do. So it'd be apropos that Sayid, out of necessity and "respect" would confess to something he didn't do in order to rectify the situation and give the woman the chance to forgive him and be able to move on.

Works either way.


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

JMikeD said:


> Yeah, after 16 years, I think I would be on a first name basis with every rock, tree, and clearing on the island.


And volleyball!


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## avery (May 29, 2006)

drew2k said:


> And I really liked when Sawyer turned to Nikki and said, "Who are you anyway?" Was that the fans talking through Sawyer?!


That was the best line! and not to nit-pick [honestly] but the line was "Who the *hell* are you?"... so much more Sawyer-esque!


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Sayid was confessing to nadia and that's why it was heartfelt. But obviously, the woman was not nadia, so he was just lying, but telling her what she wanted to hear. I don't know why he was so resistent anyway. I guess it's harder to admit guilt to others than it is yourself, and some other psycho babble nonsense.

That chess game was kind of bogus. The comp's response to qf7 was really strange (stupid), and why did it start at 1. when lock took the bishop? Also, it wasn't checkmate when it said checkmate, it was mate in 2. But it was mate in 3 on the move before (or maybe not, if the comp made a better move, like a4). OK, lamest nit-picks ever...

I kind of liked this episode. But it didn't really add a whole lot to sayid's character. It was relevant to what was happening as usual, but nothing terribly insightful except that he was a mediocre chef at a restaurant, and has a history with cats. The ukranian's cat was so sad looking. Good kitty casting.

I wonder how many takes it took to get that ping pong scene filmed. Maybe not too many since there was a cut between every major point of action.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

scottykempf said:


> Let me get this straight: Rosseau has been on the island for 16 years, but "has never been to that place?" What else is there to do but explore the island for that long?


Yeah, that bugged me too. But they did kind of offer an explanation - she said something along the lines of "I stay away from these things, it's what's kept me alive on the island for so long".

Great episode otherwise.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

I've always liked Andrew Divoff, neat character actor. He was the only good thing about a lame episode of Highlander (Bad Day In Building A).

Greg


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Well, blowung up the building does help show how far Dharma is willing to go as well as the dark skinned woman telling the Russian to shoot her.


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## bpurcell (Mar 16, 2005)

dswallow said:


> Lying. She originally told him that she ultimately confessed to something she didn't do. So it'd be apropos that Sayid, out of necessity and "respect" would confess to something he didn't do in order to rectify the situation and give the woman the chance to forgive him and be able to move on.


I agree. She needed closure, and he did enough bad things to others to be willing to offer her closure (plus he was hoping he'd be able to get the hell out of there). I also agree with TAsunder that he was thinking about Nadia when he was confessing, making the confession heartfelt.

I thought this was a good moving-forward episode. Gave us a little more insight to the history between the Dharma group and the Others. It feels like this is some turf war between two large corporations: Dharma and the Portland group (forgot the name, sorry). Kind of like the younger, stronger lion coming into a territory and killing the older head lion.


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## BriGuy20 (Aug 4, 2005)

That Locke!

I bet the Russian was using reverse psychology to get Locke to play the game. If I was in that situation (taken hostage by the people I'm ostensibly protecting the station from), I'd do my best to try to get some fate-believing doofus to enter the code since I wouldn't be able to.

And don't we know that the best way to get Locke to do something is to tell him he can't do it?  

Actually, assuming Patches WAS part of Dharma (and assuming he knew as much about the Losties as the Others did), he'd know that the best way to get Locke to do something would be to tell him that he can't (i.e. "you can't beat that computer").

I want to kill ABC less this week, I can't actually complain about the previews.

I'm going to have to go back and look at the Sayid flashback (Nadia). I was thinking that it didn't look like the woman he let go/tortured in Iraq.


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## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

So now we've got Sayid's cat to go with Kate's horse and Sawyer's pig. Any other "animals of redemption" that I missed?

I'm trying to remember if we saw that woman in Sayid's prior flashback in Iraq...or maybe I'm confusing her with Nadia.


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## BriGuy20 (Aug 4, 2005)

Who else is going to miss Scruffy's nicknames?


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

BriGuy20 said:


> ...Actually, assuming Patches WAS part of Dharma (and assuming he knew as much about the Losties as the Others did), he'd know that the best way to get Locke to do something would be to tell him that he can't (i.e. "you can't beat that computer")...


He should know about them. Kate said the girl was at the dock when she was being held captive. Which means she should know about Walt & Michael being set free. And she should realize that Kate has escaped from the Others.

If she knows all that, eyepatch guy should too. That is unless the Others don't tell each other what is going on just like the Losties never tell each other anything.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

wprager said:


> ...By the way, whatever he was reading had several references to the name "Sajeev", which is the name Sayid was using in the flashback....


Negative....that was Najeev, not Sajeev....I had CC on.


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

It was not Nadia. I thought when watching that Sayid was telling the truth. Now after reading explanations here, I'm not so sure. It makes sense that he would confess to something he didn't do like she did, but why so emotional? He never tortured Nadia.

Can anyone translate the Russian (or whater language it was) that was written on the typewriter? There was editing remarks in the margins too.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Russian translations here: http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> Negative....that was Najeev, not Sajeev....I had CC on.


Sorry, my bad. Rewatching again, the name in the Russian text is actually Наджи (Nadji). I still think it's meant to be the same name, but I am no-longer 100% certain.

The first couple of frames when Locke looks at the paper, the name "Andrej" is underlined, and in the margins the hand-written Russian text says "My name is also Andrej". Interesting, I wonder who wrote it -- Mikhail?

Hard to figure out much of the rest of the text, since you don't see complete lines. It talks about someone (Nadji?) being the second cousin of someone influential; something about being a specialist, and something about controlling a north-western company.

Then the camera scrolls down quickly (pretty illegible) until it stops at another hand-written note. This one says "There is so much I'd forgotten about Afghanistan."

Anyhow, the camera definitely paused long enough to read the two hand-written notes, so those may be relevant. Not sure about the rest of the text.

Oh, and all that meat that is supposedly ruined? Maybe it's not ruined at all, but is nicely barbecued.


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

5thcrewman said:


> And volleyball!


WILSON!!!!


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

How great was it that the bet was for Sawyer to stop using nick names for a week! I busted out laughing when he called Sun and Jin Crouching Tiger and Hidden Dragon!


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I enjoyed Zorro more.


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

gossamer88 said:


> How great was it that the bet was for Sawyer to stop using nick names for a week! I busted out laughing when he called Sun and Jin Crouching Tiger and Hidden Dragon!


Maybe the writers were running out of ideas for him so they found a way to catch a break.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

nrrhgreg said:


> Was the cat from Sayid's flashbacks the same one as on the island? Or just very similar?


It was the same cat-actor, and likely supposed to be the same cat (or at least smoke-monster-in-the-form-of-same-cat).

Anyone else think about Schrodinger's Cat during the woman's story about rescuing the cat in the box?

And is the cat-in-the-box story a metaphor now for all of our Losties? Is the island their metaphorical box, and they are being tortured like the cat in the story was?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Same cat? Really? It looked very dissimilar to me.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

danterner said:


> Anyone else think about Schrodinger's Cat during the woman's story about rescuing the cat in the box?
> 
> And is the cat-in-the-box story a metaphor now for all of our Losties? Is the island their metaphorical box, and they are being tortured like the cat in the story was?


I did.

I also like the Losties as Cat theory. It fits with the whole psychological expirement theory pretty nicely.

I wonder if Locke thought or thinks that entering 77 will bring some outside help.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

I love cats, but that was one weird-looking cat.

I really thought Sayid was going to take that Op Manual with him. I mean, that could have answered SO many questions. But of course he didn't.

I swear Sayid said they'd been there for months. Has it been months? I thought maybe two months, tops. But then again, my memory sucks.

And with Kate and Locke both shooting at Mikhail (after he shot Sayid), and they both miss?


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Did anyone else see this parody of the Lost writers that these guys did? Its hilarious.

http://www.superdeluxe.com/sd/contentDetail.do?id=D81F2344BF5AC7BB29A4AEDE0D956F45CC7B35FAFE1B8CD6


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

So if eyepatch wasn't actually dharma, are there really any dharma people left?


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

One of the options Locke had the ability to do was a food drop. That would have been the first thing I did. Then I would have looked in to the hostiles thing. I guess if the outside comms were out then maybe the drop wouldn't have worked but its worth a shot, no?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I'm not following the cat in the box analogy. Schroedinger's cat analogy was about quantum mechanics and the way observing them affects their state. How does that relate to the lost folks? I don't get it. Are you suggesting that the others think they are leaving the lost folks to their own devices but by monitoring them they are somehow influencing their behavior or something?


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

Even if Locke knew about the C4, it doesn't mean that he knew entering 77 would cause the explosion. I know that I wouldn't make the connection.
After he entered the number, we don't see what the computer said. Maybe something like "this building will self destruct in five minutes."


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Step 1= Put your cat in a box
Step 2= Cut a hole in the box
Step 3= Make her open the box


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Well, of course the Losties find a basement full of binders and files full of information and background on The Dharma Initiative. So what happens? Locke accidentally blows it up. Oh, that Locke!! (cue canned laugh track.)


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

I'm pretty sure Locke knew the place was going to blow up after pushing 77. Think about it, Locke DOESN'T want to leave the island. He's obsessed with the island. So blowing up the only chance they've found to communicate with the outside world would give him the chance to stay on the island indefinately. 

But, I'm thinking now that we have two stations that have gone KABOOM DHARMA, the real one that is, may be on their way to the island sooner rather than later.

But that plot line is probably for NEXT season.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

scottykempf said:


> Did anyone else see this parody of the Lost writers that these guys did? Its hilarious.
> 
> http://www.superdeluxe.com/sd/contentDetail.do?id=D81F2344BF5AC7BB29A4AEDE0D956F45CC7B35FAFE1B8CD6


:up:


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> I'm not following the cat in the box analogy. Schroedinger's cat analogy was about quantum mechanics and the way observing them affects their state. How does that relate to the lost folks? I don't get it. Are you suggesting that the others think they are leaving the lost folks to their own devices but by monitoring them they are somehow influencing their behavior or something?


Not quite what I think is happening, but something along those lines perhaps. Of all the various Lost theories out there, I find myself always coming back to the "it's a scientific experiment" ones. So, with that in the back of my mind, when I heard a character telling a story about a cat in a box I immediately thought of Schroedinger's experiment. I'm not sure how the actual experiment would tie into the story here, or if it even does. Just some half-formed thoughts.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Ah, I see. Although, worth noting, it was a thought experiment, not a real one.


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## TBDigital (Mar 14, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> I enjoyed Zorro more.


Sawyer calling Hurley 'Grimace' was my LOL moment of this episode...


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## tirofiban (Feb 15, 2003)

Is the Island leading Locke to all the Dharma stations? Does the Island want these stations gone?


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

BriGuy20 said:


> Who else is going to miss Scruffy's nicknames?


I loved that he got one last good zinger in: "I see Hidden Tiger, Crouching Dragon have something in mind." (or whatever he said). :up:

I think Sayid just confessed to give her closure and to get away.

Just disgusted that Locke has gone from being so strong and resourceful to a blithering idiot since he first started entering the numbers in the hatch. Ugh...Not believable IMHO.

Cheryl


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

So, anyone else thinking of designing their home security system such that you must beat a relatively weak computer in chess to issue any commands?


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> Same cat? Really? It looked very dissimilar to me.


http://bp3.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/Re-xZZGB0UI/AAAAAAAACKU/oElMMXl-mzc/s1600-h/thecat.jpg

(Attempting to imbed the image in my post isn't working for some reason.)

Similar cat, but not the same cat.

Notice that the Iraqi woman's cat has black on the top of it's nose, and eye-patch's cat is white on the top of it's nose.

So, it was a _very similar looking_ cat that reminded Sayid of that particular event in his life. The fact that patch's cat's name was "Nadia" served as an extra "zing" to Sayid.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

They don't look that much alike to me. I suppose kitty makeup could have been used if it really was the same "cat actor", but the nose coloration and mane around the neck on the iraqi's cat make them look dissimilar to me. I thought the cat in the ukranian's hut was much cuter.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

goblue97 said:


> Maybe the writers were running out of ideas for him so they found a way to catch a break.


Yeah, and a week in the "Lost" world is forever for us  (AND Sawyer)


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

In a world where random objects can appear 10 feet away in the jungle, how can the writers ever run out of ideas?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

jenhudson said:


> I love cats, but that was one weird-looking cat...


I agree...I've had cats in my household for 32 years, and that was a STRANGE-looking feline.


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## acej80 (Jan 19, 2003)

Is this the first episode where we find out that the Dharma Initiative knew there was "hosties" on the Island when the Dharma people came to the island?


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## bubba1972 (Mar 28, 2005)

Has anyone tried to see if a plastic practice golf ball actually bounces like a real ping pong ball? 

Also, why would the video on the computer also have film grain effects on it?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

bubba1972 said:


> Also, why would the video on the computer also have film grain effects on it?


Grainy source material?


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

scottykempf said:


> Step 1= Put your cat in a box
> Step 2= Cut a hole in the box
> Step 3= Make her open the box


[NitPick]
Wasn't step 1 (in the original) to cut a hole in the box? And if you are putting a cat in the box the hole cutting is not necessary.
[/NitPick]


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> So, anyone else thinking of designing their home security system such that you must beat a relatively weak computer in chess to issue any commands?


Mine came that way. Don't they all?


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Yep, sorry my bad.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

scottykempf said:


> Well, of course the Losties find a basement full of binders and files full of information and background on The Dharma Initiative. So what happens? *Gilligan* accidentally blows it up. Oh, that *Gilligan*!! (cue canned laugh track.)


FYP...



scottykempf said:


> Did anyone else see this parody of the Lost writers that these guys did? Its hilarious.
> 
> http://www.superdeluxe.com/sd/contentDetail.do?id=D81F2344BF5AC7BB29A4AEDE0D956F45CC7B35FAFE1B8CD6


That was GREAT! :up: :up: :up:



Fish Man said:


> ...Notice that the Iraqi woman's cat has black on the top of it's nose, and eye-patch's cat is white on the top of it's nose...


So, is that like the black vs white we have had going on from the beginning? Like Locke/Walt playing backgammon (the pieces being black vs white, not Walt vs Locke being black vs white), the eyeballs, etc?


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## schiavonir (Jul 17, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> That chess game was kind of bogus. The comp's response to qf7 was really strange (stupid), and why did it start at 1. when lock took the bishop? Also, it wasn't checkmate when it said checkmate, it was mate in 2. But it was mate in 3 on the move before (or maybe not, if the comp made a better move, like a4). OK, lamest nit-picks ever...


Yes! I scanned all this chatter to see if anyone else noticed the same thing. I meant to save the episode and go back and look at the chess board. I can understand when TV shows fudge things a little (especially technical things) for the sake of simplicity and the story line. But, they know that there are going to be people that go through every episode in slow motion, looking for stuff like this. Why not set up a real checkmate?

I wish I had saved the episode, but was it really even mate in 2? I recall that the bishop could be moved back to block the rook's check, and then Locke would likely take out the bishop with either the rook or the queen, but I thought there was a knight that could then move in. Does anyone have a screen shot?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

jenhudson said:


> And with Kate and Locke both shooting at Mikhail (after he shot Sayid), and they both miss?


They weren't trying to hit him because at that time, they had not ascertained which side he was on.


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## GadgetFreak (Jun 3, 2002)

bpurcell said:


> I thought this was a good moving-forward episode. Gave us a little more insight to the history between the Dharma group and the Others. It feels like this is some turf war between two large corporations: Dharma and the Portland group (forgot the name, sorry). Kind of like the younger, stronger lion coming into a territory and killing the older head lion.


We still don't know if there are two groups. The two people in that station were part of the same group as the people we know as "The Others" and that group includes the Portland Group. We do not know if that group we call "The Others" is Dharma or if they are "The Hostiles" and did away with Dharma.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

markz said:


> We now know what 3:05 was for sure. Or at least what Locke thinks it is.


We do?

What did I miss?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

nrrhgreg said:


> Was the cat from Sayid's flashbacks the same one as on the island? Or just very similar?


http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/03/cat.html


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

hefe said:


> We do?
> 
> What did I miss?


At the beginning when Locke asked Sayid if they were still going in the right direction, and Sayid pulled out a compass and said, yes, they were still travelling towards 305 degrees.


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## kdelande (Dec 17, 2001)

hefe said:


> We do?
> 
> What did I miss?


Compass bearing they followed, 305.

KD


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

devdogaz said:


> At the beginning when Locke asked Sayid if they were still going in the right direction, and Sayid pulled out a compass and said, yes, they were still travelling towards 305 degrees.


So then what happened to "lift up your eyes and look north?"

305 degrees is not north. It's northwest.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Also, what about that compass?

From Season 1, "Hearts and Minds"


> [Shot of Sayid and Jack walking in the jungle.]
> 
> SAYID: Let me ask you something -- which way do you think North is?
> 
> ...


Unless since they destroyed the hatch, maybe compasses are working again...but did they address that? I don't recall.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

schiavonir said:


> Yes! I scanned all this chatter to see if anyone else noticed the same thing. I meant to save the episode and go back and look at the chess board. I can understand when TV shows fudge things a little (especially technical things) for the sake of simplicity and the story line. But, they know that there are going to be people that go through every episode in slow motion, looking for stuff like this. Why not set up a real checkmate?
> 
> I wish I had saved the episode, but was it really even mate in 2? I recall that the bishop could be moved back to block the rook's check, and then Locke would likely take out the bishop with either the rook or the queen, but I thought there was a knight that could then move in. Does anyone have a screen shot?


The N protects the bishop but the bishop attacked by both rook and queen. After bishop f1, rxf1+ nxf1 then qxf1 mate. Even though the bishop is gone from g2, King can't go to g2 because the queen is attacking that square. The comp maybe could have played h4 instead of nd2 and not been immediately mated. The comp was obviously not even as good as a weak shareware one.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

hefe said:


> Also, what about that compass?
> 
> From Season 1, "Hearts and Minds"
> 
> Unless since they destroyed the hatch, maybe compasses are working again...but did they address that? I don't recall.


Doesn't really matter. If north on the compass is not actual north, still they could go north on the compass at 305. It wouldn't be actual north but it would be the only way they could figureout how to go 305 maybe. Or maybe not.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> Doesn't really matter. If north on the compass is not actual north, still they could go north on the compass at 305. It wouldn't be actual north but it would be the only way they could figureout how to go 305 maybe. Or maybe not.


So maybe the magnetic anomaly is making 305=north on _that _compass?

But then...north from what starting point?


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

devdogaz said:


> At the beginning when Locke asked Sayid if they were still going in the right direction, and Sayid pulled out a compass and said, yes, they were still travelling towards 305 degrees.


Sayid even made a comment about following a number carved on a stupid stick (or something to that effect.)


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

markz said:


> Sayid even made a comment about following a number carved on a stupid stick (or something to that effect.)


Yeah, and I just checked the scene online. Sayid says "We're still heading north on a bearing of three zero five."

...Which, of course, is not north.










Oh well, every once in a while, one of the technical inaccuracies bug me. Just seems this is too integral to the plot to fudge, but whatever.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

It's northwest. Close enough.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> It's northwest. Close enough.


To what? They've been walking for 2 days in a northwest direction. That is not at all close to where they would have wound up walking 2 days in a northerly direction.

And I know nothing will come of this. I'm just a little disappointed in this basic inconsistency. Some things bug me, most do not, for whatever reason.


----------



## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

I thought the same exact thing when he said north on 305. Heck, that is closer to west than north. (35 degrees from due west and 55 degrees from due north.)


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Hey, just go with the flow. I'm sure the Lost writers will answer the question later as to why 305 degrees was referred to as North in this episode.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

hefe said:


> To what? They've been walking for 2 days in a northwest direction. That is not at all close to where they would have wound up walking 2 days in a northerly direction.
> 
> And I know nothing will come of this. I'm just a little disappointed in this basic inconsistency. Some things bug me, most do not, for whatever reason.


The cane said "lift your eyes and look north" John 3:05. It's not like it said north only and they chose 305 arbitrarily. I think you guys are looking for something that isn't there on this one.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

hefe said:


> Yeah, and I just checked the scene online. Sayid says "We're still heading north on a bearing of three zero five."
> 
> ...Which, of course, is not north.
> 
> ...


We learned in season one that on the island, the compass is inaccurate.

North is 0 degrees (or 360 degrees, if you prefer).

So, the difference is 55 degrees.

In that episode where they determined the compass was inaccurate (judging by the position of the sun), if you look at the gestures Jack and Sayid make when they have the discussion: "The compass says this is north [points] but the sun says this is north [points]", the difference does look to be around 55 degrees or so!

So, wouldn't it be something if the "error" of compasses on the island is 55 degrees, and the "Jesus stick" told them that!


----------



## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

Lee L said:


> I thought the same exact thing when he said north on 305. Heck, that is closer to west than north. (35 degrees from due west and 55 degrees from due north.)


I just realized something... I thought compasses didn't work on the island..

or did blowing the hatch fix that anomaly? Maybe 305 is north on that island.


----------



## Uncle Briggs (Sep 11, 2004)

drew2k said:


> I had the impression Locke didn't know about the explosives.


I don't think he knew about it either.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Fish Man said:


> We learned in season one that on the island, the compass is inaccurate.
> 
> North is 0 degrees (or 360 degrees, if you prefer).
> 
> ...


This sounds very possible to me. If they knew that north was off by 55 degrees then by heading at a 305 baring then they would be going "true" north. Makes since to me.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

> The cane said "lift your eyes and look north" John 3:05. It's not like it said north only and they chose 305 arbitrarily.


Except north<>305 degrees. If the stick _is _telling them that 305 is true north on this island, it still doesn't give them a point to start from. You could walk north from here, or from a point two miles to the east of here...


----------



## kdelande (Dec 17, 2001)

Maybe I missed it but noone commented on Sayid's reference to the cabling going out into the sea from S1? The one many have commented on was a dangling plot thread?

Seems to be somewhat cleared up now.

KD


----------



## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

Fish Man, I like it.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

hefe said:


> Except north<>305 degrees. If the stick _is _telling them that 305 is true north on this island, it still doesn't give them a point to start from. You could walk north from here, or from a point two miles to the east of here...


I'm going to guess that the starting point was Eko's Grave.


----------



## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

schiavonir said:


> Yes! I scanned all this chatter to see if anyone else noticed the same thing. I meant to save the episode and go back and look at the chess board. I can understand when TV shows fudge things a little (especially technical things) for the sake of simplicity and the story line. But, they know that there are going to be people that go through every episode in slow motion, looking for stuff like this. Why not set up a real checkmate?
> 
> I wish I had saved the episode, but was it really even mate in 2? I recall that the bishop could be moved back to block the rook's check, and then Locke would likely take out the bishop with either the rook or the queen, but I thought there was a knight that could then move in. Does anyone have a screen shot?


IANACP, but it say this in Wikipedia:

The finish to the chess board was from a match between Anatoli Karpov and Garry Kasparov from the 1985 World Championship. In that match, called the "Brisbane Bombshell" Kasparov, playing black, defeated Karpov in 40 moves. Incidentally, that game did not end in checkmate, but in a yield by Karpov. The board, as shown on the show, had two valid moves for the computer.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

hefe said:


> Except north<>305 degrees. If the stick _is _telling them that 305 is true north on this island, it still doesn't give them a point to start from. You could walk north from here, or from a point two miles to the east of here...





JYoung said:


> I'm going to guess that the starting point was Eko's Grave.


That's what I asked back in post #3. They went to find Danielle and then apparently headed on that bearing.



markz said:


> ...We now know what 3:05 was for sure. Or at least what Locke thinks it is. Wouldn't that bearing have to have a specific starting point to end up at the right end point? Since they all went to find Danielle and then headed on that bearing, wouldn't they end up somewhere else?...


----------



## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

TAsunder said:


> I wonder how many takes it took to get that ping pong scene filmed. Maybe not too many since there was a cut between every major point of action.


I don't understand what you were asking here? Why would it have taken so many takes? What did I miss?


----------



## lordargent (Nov 12, 2002)

jamesbobo said:


> Even if Locke knew about the C4, it doesn't mean that he knew entering 77 would cause the explosion. I know that I wouldn't make the connection.
> After he entered the number, we don't see what the computer said. Maybe something like "this building will self destruct in five minutes."


You need to watch more movies. What sort of secret underground base DOESN'T come with a self destruct mechanism?

I would definitely make the connection if I knew there was C4 there.

/heck, given what happened with the hatch, I would have been wary of messing around with any computer system


----------



## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

lordargent said:


> You need to watch more movies. What sort of secret underground base DOESN'T come with a self destruct mechanism?
> 
> I would definitely make the connection if I knew there was C4 there.
> 
> /heck, given what happened with the hatch, I would have been wary of messing around with any computer system


I agree. I don't think Locke knew about the C4 but if I were him I would have most certainly considered that alerting the system that the station had been compromised/overrun could result in a self destruct.

It is annoying when Locke acts like such a bimbo.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

brianp6621 said:


> It is annoying when Locke acts like such a bimbo.


He just likes to push people's buttons.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

brianp6621 said:


> I agree. I don't think Locke knew about the C4 but if I were him I would have most certainly considered that alerting the system that the station had been compromised/overrun could result in a self destruct.
> 
> It is annoying when Locke acts like such a bimbo.


Well, he has been historically naive.
(His father, the pot farmers...)


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Did anybody else think they shouldn't have been so quick to drink the tea? I would have waited until he drank first.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

kdelande said:


> Maybe I missed it but noone commented on Sayid's reference to the cabling going out into the sea from S1? The one many have commented on was a dangling plot thread?
> 
> Seems to be somewhat cleared up now.
> 
> KD


Of course, he told them this among a million other lies. Can anything he said be trusted?

Greg


----------



## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

gchance said:


> Of course, he told them this among a million other lies. Can anything he said be trusted?
> 
> Greg


Well the computer video confirmed there IS a sonar buoy, but not necessarily that there is only 1 cable leading into the water.

I would say that mystery is mostly resolved, possibly completely.


----------



## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

Was this episode part of the supposed arc that the producers were saying was going to be worth watching, despite the fact that the show has spun its wheels for most of the season? Because this was generally as boring as watching Jericho. The flashback was yet again another waste of time (the worst since the second replay of Eko's) and station Flame served no purpose other than to provide a little fighting and an explosion. So basically we spent an hour and learned the purpose of the cable going out to the sea, and at the same time find out that it's not important anyway because the cable and/or the equipment attached to it doesn't work... Gee, thanks guys. That's great entertainment and storytelling there.

Maybe it's the endless bland and corny dialog, but the acting is really leaving something to be desired. Even Terry O'Quinn seems to be bored with it. That cat looking above the camera near the end of the episode earned more of a paycheck then everybody else this week.

The video posted earlier in this thread that jokes about the "Lost" writers seems pretty appropriate to me. I think magic turtles and a disappearing ocean will be coming soon at this rate.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I think Locke took the same stupid pills this week that Jack Bauer did.


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

ElJay said:


> The flashback was yet again another waste of time (the worst since the second replay of Eko's)


The flashback this week is what the show is all about. This show is about the characters and their story. I thought it was a fantastic flashback.

I did not think it was ambigious whether he was telling the truth. I believe he really did torture her and he did not want to admit it because then the husband would kill him.

I also assumed the compass worked because of the hatch being destroyed.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

hefe said:


> Yeah, and I just checked the scene online. Sayid says "We're still heading north on a bearing of three zero five."
> 
> ...Which, of course, is not north.


Anyone remember the bearing that Ben told Michael and Walt to follow, in order to leave the island? Was it 305 also?

EDIT: Never mind. It was 325.


----------



## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

NoThru22 said:


> The flashback this week is what the show is all about. This show is about the characters and their story. I thought it was a fantastic flashback.


Characters and their story... This show is already becoming like a lame version of a "mystery of the week" show. ABC is obviously not a good network for serialized shows and this show is going down the exact same horrid route that killed "Alias" before it. At least previous flashbacks had showed us how characters were linked together, how the numbers screwed up Hurley's life, or something a little more fascinating than twenty minutes of useless exposition to show Sayid confessing to something he didn't do... We already knew he was a torturer based on previous flashbacks, and we already knew he was feeling remorseful for what he had done. It's insulting for the writers to keep pounding regular viewers over the head with the same things over and over.


----------



## pcguru83 (Jan 18, 2005)

Was the Russian-speaking black girl the same lady that Michael met with and that had Walt at the fake camp? No one has mentioned it yet, and it was the first thing I thought of... Am I mistaken?


----------



## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

pcguru83 said:


> Was the Russian-speaking black girl the same lady that Michael met with and that had Walt at the fake camp? No one has mentioned it yet, and it was the first thing I thought of... Am I mistaken?


I thought it was obviously her.


----------



## kdelande (Dec 17, 2001)

pcguru83 said:


> Was the Russian-speaking black girl the same lady that Michael met with and that had Walt at the fake camp? No one has mentioned it yet, and it was the first thing I thought of... Am I mistaken?


Assumed that was pretty obvious, she was in the "Previously on Lost..." segment to refresh everyone's memory.

KD


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

pcguru83 said:


> Was the Russian-speaking black girl the same lady that Michael met with and that had Walt at the fake camp? No one has mentioned it yet, and it was the first thing I thought of... Am I mistaken?


Many people have mentioned it, which is why she's been called Mrs. Klugh several times in this thread already (although I don't think anyone spelled it right).


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

pcguru83 said:


> Was the Russian-speaking black girl the same lady that Michael met with and that had Walt at the fake camp? No one has mentioned it yet, and it was the first thing I thought of... Am I mistaken?


Yes. She was Bea Klugh. (Often incorrectly written as 'Clue');

Edit: D'oh! Missed it by that much.


----------



## pcguru83 (Jan 18, 2005)

devdogaz said:


> Many people have mentioned it, which is why she's been called Mrs. Klugh several times in this thread already (although I don't think anyone spelled it right).


Ehh, must still be too early in the morning.  I could have swore I didn't see that anywere. Oh well. Carry on.


----------



## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

kdelande said:


> Maybe I missed it but noone commented on Sayid's reference to the cabling going out into the sea from S1? The one many have commented on was a dangling plot thread?
> 
> Seems to be somewhat cleared up now.
> 
> KD


Yep, I noted that as well.

It seems to me the DHARMA mystery has pretty much been solved at this point. Some of the specifics haven't been fleshed out, but overall most of the big questions have been dealt with.

The only big question related to DHARMA that I can think of that has not been addressed is why did they leave? But, I think it's pretty obviuos that the Others drove them out.


----------



## MFruchey (May 25, 2006)

ElJay said:


> At least previous flashbacks had showed us how characters were linked together.


Except that many of you here *hated* all of that interconnectedness, saying something to the effect of it feeling too contrived.


----------



## SNJpage1 (May 25, 2006)

I am ready to give up on LOST. 3 minutes of commercials and 6 minute of program. Nothing is making sense anymore.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

kdelande said:


> Assumed that was pretty obvious, she was in the "Previously on Lost..." segment to refresh everyone's memory.
> 
> KD


They must start the show ever so slightly before the proper time, at least in my market.

My recording (I wait until about 9:30 to start watching) did not have the whole "Previously" segment. It started in _after_ they showed her, and I only know that from going online to check out something in the episode.


----------



## kdelande (Dec 17, 2001)

hefe said:


> They must start the show ever so slightly before the proper time, at least in my market.
> 
> My recording (I wait until about 9:30 to start watching) did not have the whole "Previously" segment. It started in _after_ they showed her, and I only know that from going online to check out something in the episode.


Ah, gotta love those affiliate timing issues! Really does a disservice as this examples shows, you didn't get the clarity into the episode by way of the "Previously..." that you SHOULD have and was intended.

KD


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

kdelande said:


> Ah, gotta love those affiliate timing issues! Really does a disservice as this examples shows, you didn't get the clarity into the episode by way of the "Previously..." that you SHOULD have and was intended.
> 
> KD


I see you're in the Chicago market too...I recorded channel 7-1 on the HD-TiVo. I don't know if the start time was only off there or not.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

I thought we learned a decent amount of Island stuff this episode

-Underground cable to sonar thing
-The others have a Sub
-Hatches connected somewhat
-Flame hatch had a lot of communication equipment
-Sayid knows where the others live!
-No Nicknames for Sawyer 
-Klugh dead
-Others rather die than be captured really
-Russo doesn't like confrontations.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

hefe said:


> He just likes to push people's buttons.


No, not a rimshot.

<Trombone with mute>
Waaa Waaa Waaa Waaaaaaaaaaaaaa......
</Trombone with mute>


----------



## kdelande (Dec 17, 2001)

hefe said:


> I see you're in the Chicago market too...I recorded channel 7-1 on the HD-TiVo. I don't know if the start time was only off there or not.


I'm out of town this week and watched live on Cincinnati TWC cable 

KD


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

NoThru22 said:


> The flashback this week is what the show is all about. This show is about the characters and their story. I thought it was a fantastic flashback.


I've recently realized that I've been evaluating this show backwards. I always thought that the current day story line was the important one and the flashbacks were meant simply to embellish and fill in the gaps of a larger, coherent story. Now I'm starting to believe that the flashbacks are where the writers' creativity and inventiveness exist and the current day story lines are whatever slapdash crap they can wrap around a thin plot to stretch the show out to 42 minutes.

What was the point of the ping-pong match other than to waste screen time? Or maybe to show us that Sawyer is still a selfish d*ck?

What kind of moron goes into an enemy's secret hideout and starts playing a computerized chess game while his companions are investigating and then stypes in secret codes just because some mysterious dude on the screen says to?


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Er... we still don't know what dhamra was actually doing, do we? Maybe I'm missing something. They built some insane magnet and then had a bunch of stations scattered around the island... why?


----------



## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

TAsunder said:


> Er... we still don't know what dhamra was actually doing, do we? Maybe I'm missing something. They built some insane magnet and then had a bunch of stations scattered around the island... why?


They didn't build the magnet, wasn't it a magnetic anomoly they discovered?

The question that remains for me is what REALLY would have happened if Desmond hadn't turned the key, and if all that happened with turning the key was the sky going purple and the hatch blowing up, why not do that a long time ago instead of pushing the button forever?


----------



## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

MikeMar said:


> I thought we learned a decent amount of Island stuff this episode
> 
> -Underground cable to sonar thing
> *-The others have a Sub*
> ...


We actually knew that one, just had it confirmed in this episode. Which is good, it means they do actually answer some questions.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

brianp6621 said:


> We actually knew that one, just had it confirmed in this episode. Which is good, it means they do actually answer some questions.


ahh true, but as you said, confirmed it


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

7thton said:


> Yep, I noted that as well.
> 
> It seems to me the DHARMA mystery has pretty much been solved at this point. Some of the specifics haven't been fleshed out, but overall most of the big questions have been dealt with.
> 
> The only big question related to DHARMA that I can think of that has not been addressed is why did they leave? But, I think it's pretty obviuos that the Others drove them out.


Ahh, no - the DHARMA mystery hasn't been solved for me.

Why was DHARMA on the island? 
Why is food still being dropped?
What happened to the DHARMA project team(s)?
Why has no one off the island come to check on the DHARMA team(s) after they stopped hearing from them?

Lots of questions still to be answered ...


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> What was the point of the ping-pong match other than to waste screen time? Or maybe to show us that Sawyer is still a selfish d*ck?


To me the interesting part about that was the wager itself: that Sawyer would have to give up nicknames for a week. This says (1) that the Losties notice the nicknames and know that it would really mess with Sawyer to abstain, but (2) they don't mind the nicknames that much or they would have made him agree to give them up for longer than a week.

The other thing that was interesting about that was that the 2 people who came up with the wager are the native Korean speakers, who should be less irritated by the English nicknames and certainly by the pop culture references than those who really understand them. I think this is further proof that the wager was more to mess with Sawyer than to relieve the group of the distress of being called a silly nickname. (OTOH, it's possible they were bothered more because they don't get the jokes.)

This wager could be used through the rest of the season to mark time. I.e., Sawyer will start to say something, and someone will remind him of the bet, or maybe at some point Sawyer will call Desmond the Highlander and then say "week's up."

Finally, it was kind of fun to see the con get hustled, especially by Grimace, who Sawyer tends to underestimate.


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

mqpickles said:


> Finally, it was kind of fun to see the con get hustled, especially by Grimace, who Sawyer tends to underestimate.


Thing is he telegraphed it big-time, and I'm no poker player. It was obvious when they set up the bet that it was going to be Hurley at the other end of the table when Sawyer came back. It's a little hard to believe Sawyer didn't see it coming. Maybe part of the point is that the thing with Freckles has him off his game.


----------



## ducker (Feb 21, 2006)

hefe said:


> Except north<>305 degrees. If the stick _is _telling them that 305 is true north on this island, it still doesn't give them a point to start from. You could walk north from here, or from a point two miles to the east of here...


you don't know if 305 is or is not north "On the Island."

as someone else mentioned, perhaps on the island there is in fact a magnetic field that throws off compasses by 55 degrees.

The larger question is if there still is an electric field on the island following the hatch blowing up.


----------



## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

bdlucas said:


> Thing is he telegraphed it big-time, and I'm no poker player. It was obvious when they set up the bet that it was going to be Hurley at the other end of the table when Sawyer came back. It's a little hard to believe Sawyer didn't see it coming. Maybe part of the point is that the thing with Freckles has him off his game.


Really? I actually thought it could be Jin.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

bdlucas said:


> Thing is he telegraphed it big-time, and I'm no poker player. It was obvious when they set up the bet that it was going to be Hurley at the other end of the table when Sawyer came back. It's a little hard to believe Sawyer didn't see it coming. Maybe part of the point is that the thing with Freckles has him off his game.


I agree that Hurley had a suspicious look. You may be right about Freckles, or it may be that I'm right that Sawyer just underestimated Hurley again and didn't take the look for what it really meant.

Did we see Hurley play ping pong at the "place"? It seems familiar. If so, then maybe that's part of what we were reading, and of course Sawyer wouldn't know that.


----------



## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

brianp6621 said:


> Really? I actually thought it could be Jin.


Jin is Korean, not Chinese


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

brianp6621 said:


> Really? I actually thought it could be Jin.





goblue97 said:


> Jin is Korean, not Chinese


Then I mis-stereotyped him too. I expected it to be Jin.


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

wprager said:


> [NitPick]
> Wasn't step 1 (in the original) to cut a hole in the box? And if you are putting a cat in the box the hole cutting is not *wise.*
> [/NitPick]


Fixed your post. You know what an angry cat can do???


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

brianp6621 said:


> Really? I actually thought it could be Jin.


You're right, all we could tell from Hurley's behavior was that he had knew something Sawyer didn't. It could have been that he knew Jin was a world champion ping-pong player or something. Guess I figured if I were writing it I'd make it Hurley.


----------



## tubsone (Apr 15, 2006)

WOW!.....What a show this week! Reminded me why this is the Best Show on T.V.


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

tubsone said:


> WOW!.....What a show this week! Reminded me why this is the Best Show on T.V.


Lost is now Rome?


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

MikeMar said:


> -The others have a Sub


He said that the Dharma people come in on a sub, when he was playing a Dharma person. That doesn't mean the Others don't have a sub, but it doesn't confirm that they do. I would vote not.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Figaro said:


> Lost is now Rome?


Hey, you're in a Lost thread.

"When in a Lost thread,..."


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Figaro said:


> Lost is now Rome?


"Yon Hurley has a lean and hungry look."

Hmm.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Well, at least now we know why they called it the "Flame" station ... 

Boom!


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

hefe said:


> They must start the show ever so slightly before the proper time, at least in my market.
> 
> My recording (I wait until about 9:30 to start watching) did not have the whole "Previously" segment. It started in _after_ they showed her, and I only know that from going online to check out something in the episode.


Same problem here. In fact, the episode was already under way by the time my recording started. Usually it catches all or part of the "Previously, on Lost ..." part. Oh well, it was just Sawyer yapping on the beach. 

Anyone want to take a crack at how Mikhail got out of his ropes? And how they'll keep him tied up better the second time?

And Locke either sabotaged the place or is a complete freakin' moron. He couldn't possibly believe that entering 77 would communicate anything to anyone, since the system had already told him that comm was inoperable. What a maroon, and that part really came off pretty lame.


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

As to Locke entering the computer codes....

I don't think he knew the place was wired with explosives.
He just wanted to know what would happen.

You know....curiousity killed the cat, and whatnot.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

I'm starting to believe in the "they're in a video game" theory. Anybody else think we're gonna see the Lost crew blow up 6 hatches/stations by the time this is all over, and then face off against the boss in a cataclysmic showdown?


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Bananfish said:


> I'm starting to believe in the "they're in a video game" theory. Anybody else think we're gonna see the Lost crew blow up 6 hatches/stations by the time this is all over, and then face off against the boss in a cataclysmic showdown?


Best theory I've heard yet!  Maybe it will end with young Fred Savage's grandpa telling him it's time to quit playing his game and go to bed, and offering to read him a story!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

markz said:


> Best theory I've heard yet!  Maybe it will end with young Fred Savage's grandpa telling him it's time to quit playing his game and go to bed, and offering to read him a story!


"Once upon a time, a group of people boarded an Oceanic airliner from Australia to LA..."


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

"A Long Time Ago, In A Galaxy Far, Far Away."


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

"This is my favorite book in all the world, though I have never read it."


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Delta13 said:


> And Locke either sabotaged the place or is a complete freakin' moron. He couldn't possibly believe that entering 77 would communicate anything to anyone, since the system had already told him that comm was inoperable. What a maroon, and that part really came off pretty lame.


 My favorite part of the whole episode was the look Sayid gave Locke just before the Flame blew. He really wanted to smack Locke, and I really wanted him to.

If it didn't occur to Locke that it was a self-destruct mechanism, that was stupid. If Locke knew it would blow (and I don't think he did), then this is the kind of thing that you really ought to warn your friends about, or heaven forbid, even try to get a consensus before acting.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

NoThru22 said:


> He said that the Dharma people come in on a sub, when he was playing a Dharma person. That doesn't mean the Others don't have a sub, but it doesn't confirm that they do. I would vote not.


So how do you explain the dialogue earlier in the season after the Others stole the boat from Sun, they returned to the zoo camp and someone said, "The sub's back."


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Episode 4 of this Season, "Every Man For Himself"


> [A door suddenly opens and Ben enters.]
> 
> BEN: Juliet, I need you.
> 
> ...


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)




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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

devdogaz said:


> So how do you explain the dialogue earlier in the season after the Others stole the boat from Sun, they returned to the zoo camp and someone said, "The sub's back."


Yeah, that was my point earlier in this thread. In my mind it is pretty much confirmed now that there is a sub and the others have use of it.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

mqpickles said:


> My favorite part of the whole episode was the look Sayid gave Locke just *before* the Flame blew. He really wanted to smack Locke, and I really wanted him to.


Sayid wasn't upset with Locke until AFTER the Flame blowed up real good. 

I thought Locke's justification made sense ... there was a incursion by the hostiles, so he was to enter "77". Sayid wasn't shown to inform Locke about the C4 explosives. And you know how these people love to keep important details to themselves. If Locke knew the place was gonna blow, you'd think he wouldn't have been sauntering out to the woods ... he & Kate woulda' been running before it blew.

And I would've taken the horse, cow and cat with me back to camp.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

getreal said:


> And I would've taken the horse, cow and cat with me back to camp.


Mmmm. Stew.


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## lonwolf615 (May 19, 2004)

drew2k said:


> Mmmm. Stew.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

getreal said:


> Sayid wasn't upset with Locke until AFTER the Flame blowed up real good.


Thanks. I couldn't remember if it was right before or right after, so I just picked one (the wrong one, oh well).


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

MikeMar said:


> -Sayid knows where the others live!


I wonder why people aren't talking about this. This one scene had more plot advancement in it than any three episodes this season, and almost as much as a random 30 seconds of a Heroes episode!


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

Hunter Green said:


> I wonder why people aren't talking about this. This one scene had more plot advancement in it than any three episodes this season, and almost as much as a random 30 seconds of a Heroes episode!


Plot advancement.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> I've recently realized that I've been evaluating this show backwards. I always thought that the current day story line was the important one and the flashbacks were meant simply to embellish and fill in the gaps of a larger, coherent story. Now I'm starting to believe that the flashbacks are where the writers' creativity and inventiveness exist and the current day story lines are whatever slapdash crap they can wrap around a thin plot to stretch the show out to 42 minutes.
> 
> What was the point of the ping-pong match other than to waste screen time? Or maybe to show us that Sawyer is still a selfish d*ck?


Never heard of a C plot before? The trip to the flame was the A plot. Sayid's flashbacks were be B plot (which in lost usually supports the A plot). And beach ping-pong was the C plot. There's enough serious stuff going on in A & B. C is there to lighten things up and, yes, fill out the show. I like seeing the beach once in a while. I hate it when they're away from it for too long (like all the alcatraz episodes). Besides, they aren't paying all these actors to sit in their hotel rooms all day.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

2 questions ... first, the Flame food drop. It didn't say what kind of food, right? Think Dharma might do hay drops for the cows? It would suck if you were expecting a new shipment or mac & cheese or Dharma Loops and got hay bales instead.  

(or cat food and kitty litter, for that matter ...)

Isn't it interesting that the Pearl station had none of the Dharma instruction manuals in it? Part of the Dharma "testing" protocol, convenience on the part of the writers, or did Kazinsky run out of TP at one point?


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

drew2k said:


> Mmmm. Stew.


What? You call?


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## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

Someone needs to Kill Locke, he is worse than a little child, can't keep his hands off anything. I'm sure they could have used alot of stuff in the bunker. And why did the woman want the german to kill her?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Fl_Gulfer said:


> Someone needs to Kill Locke, he is worse than a little child, can't keep his hands off anything.


Interesting technique you have there for dealing with little children...


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Fl_Gulfer said:


> Someone needs to Kill Locke, he is worse than a little child, can't keep his hands off anything. I'm sure they could have used alot of stuff in the bunker. And why did the woman want the german to kill her?


German???! He said his name is Mikhail, that he is from Kiev (Ukraine), and that he was in the Soviet army fighting in Afghanistan. Plus the text that Locke picked up had cyrillic characters -- not an umlaut in sight.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

wprager said:


> Fl_Gulfer said:
> 
> 
> > Someone needs to Kill Locke, he is worse than a little child, can't keep his hands off anything. I'm sure they could have used alot of stuff in the bunker. And why did the woman want the german to kill her?
> ...


Sure ... point out the obvious without actually answering the question. What ... are you a writer for Lost or something?


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## Tersanyus (Jun 27, 2004)

I agree that Locke didn't know entering 77 would blow the place up. If he knew all those DHARMA manuals were down there he would have read them. I would have loved to hear what Mark Wickman/Marvin Candle said after someone entered 77. Was it "Five minutes to self destruct?" or something else? I get a feeling we may see what happened then in some other flashback.

Do we really know for sure Mikhail was telling us the truth? I know we are fairly certain the Others have a submarine. He still could have been lying to us about any or all of what he said about DHARMA. Sayid's cable to the ocean in season 1 may lead to a sonar buoy. I think it could lead to the now no longer seen Alcatraz (sp?) island.

I think Mikhail might have been right about the dish no longer working. I think it had been working up until the Pearl went bye-bye not years ago like he said.

Danielle never seen the Flame station? I don't buy it. She's been there on that island for 16 years and not seen much of the island? I think she knows where everything is on that island. I bet she knows where Otherville is, where every DHARMA station is even ones we don't know about. Heck, she's probably the one person on that island who knows what is going on about nearly everything. Time will tell. Even if she is telling the truth she knows more than she lets on. I don't think she volunteer's any info. What happened to Danielles map?

Did DHARMA not look over this island before building facilities on it? Guess not if they had to "purge" the island. Sayid should have looked thru those DHARMA books. Why does food still drop if DHARMA people are gone if they really are gone? The Others have been using that dish or something else to communicate to the outside world with DHARMA people not on the island and they are faking that they are DHARMA.

Did Rose and Bernard die and we not see it? 

The little info we get doesn't seem to do much. We now know Cindy and the kids are alive Oh joy. Probably won't see them again until next season.

Don't get me wrong, I love this show. I will watch it until the (bitter?) end.

Sorry for going off topic a bit. I just don't say much in the forums about this show.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Tersanyus said:


> Why does food still drop if DHARMA people are gone if they really are gone?


OK, you asked a ton of questions, most of which we're still waiting for answers on, but this one was previously answered. We found out last season that DHARMA set up the food drops into perpetuity, meaning that they probably signed a contract with a third-party company and arranged for payment to be made indefinitely, so that even if DHARMA no longer existed, these food drops would continue.


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

Yeah, Locke sure was incompetent. Not like Sayid, the trained military specialist whose bright idea, seeing he had three armed combatants with the element of surprise against one guy with unknown capabilities and temperament, was to wait to get shot before bringing force to bear, rather than controlling the situation from the outset. Not like Kate, an inveterate scrapper who's fought off a U.S. Federal Marshall, amongst other people, but who was knocked out of the fight immediately when said foe was going alone against both her and Sayid. Yeah, Locke was the real disappointment here.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

I was confused by Locke's facial expression after the building blew up. I wasn't sure if he meant to do it or not. I think he might have.

And, the dialog was something like:
Locke: I think I know why you didn't want me to beat that chess game
Mikhail: Why's that?
Locke: [Odd facial expression]
BOOM!

He didn't look all that surprised. And, when Sayid gave him the "YOUUUUU IDIOT!" look, Locke didn't say "I had no idea" or anything like that. I think he did it on purpose. (Though, he didn't know what was in the underground level).


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

devdogaz said:


> So how do you explain the dialogue earlier in the season after the Others stole the boat from Sun, they returned to the zoo camp and someone said, "The sub's back."


I said nothing Mikhail said confirmed they had a sub, which is true. I just forgot they mentioned a sub earlier in the season too.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

aindik said:


> I was confused by Locke's facial expression after the building blew up. I wasn't sure if he meant to do it or not. I think he might have.
> 
> And, the dialog was something like:
> Locke: I think I know why you didn't want me to beat that chess game
> ...


That was certainly my take on it, but I got shouted down for suggesting Locke might have known, so I must be wrong.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That was certainly my take on it, but I got shouted down for suggesting Locke might have known, so I must be wrong.


I don't think he knew because he didn't know about the c4. I think he thought it would cause a rescue party or some other defense of the station.

Locke gets in trouble because he keeps acting on misdirected faith, which has unintended negative consequences. It would be consistent with his pattern to blow up the station by mistake because he had faith that the island (or whoever) would provide some sort of rescue to the station under attack.

But I do think it's ambiguous.

In fact, if Locke believed the station would blow up and then it did, that itself might cause him to look surprised. It would be the one of the few times he acted on faith and things actually went as expected. 

Either way, I think Locke screwed up. If he knew it would blow the place up, why would he want to do that? If he didn't, why didn't it occur to him (even not knowing about the c4) that it was a possibility? And then there's the perennial Lost question: why didn't he discuss this with the group before acting? (and yeah, why didn't Sayid mention the c4?)


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## rhuntington3 (May 1, 2001)

Tersanyus said:


> ... Did Rose and Bernard die and we not see it?


Yeah, where are those two anyway?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

They bored themselves to death.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

rhuntington3 said:


> Yeah, where are those two anyway?


Rose and Bernard versus Nikki and Paulo. Who would YOU rather have gracing our TV screens this season? Instead of two developed characters with interesting back stories and involvement on the island since day one, we get Frik and Frak just standing around adding to the scenery.


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## Bai Shen (Dec 17, 2004)

hefe said:


> Yeah, and I just checked the scene online. Sayid says "We're still heading north on a bearing of three zero five."
> 
> ...Which, of course, is not north.
> 
> ...


Shouldn't the 305 be at the top since that's the direction they were heading?


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Could Danielle be the last surviving Dharma Initiative researcher? Losing her daughter, her husband and co-workers, and then being alone on the island for 16 years could lead her mind into fabricating her story. Not sure why, though.

Also, does the 3rd party company which does the food drops know where the island is or do they know how to find it? Perhaps part of the "Food Drop Protocol" explained how there is a signal sent out (beacon?) to guide the plane. I guess we'll never know.

As to why the woman (Ms. Klugh) wanted the _german_ to kill her, it was obviously because she knew something that The Others didn't want the Losties to find out, and she was not sure she could keep this _something_ back. I forget, did Mikhail try to shoot himself as well or did he have nothing to hide?

Also, from the translations (link posted earlier in this thread, I think) Mikhail kept saying there is another way. What was that other way, I wonder? Is that yet another new question/mystery introduced?


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## Bai Shen (Dec 17, 2004)

devdogaz said:


> OK, you asked a ton of questions, most of which we're still waiting for answers on, but this one was previously answered. We found out last season that DHARMA set up the food drops into perpetuity, meaning that they probably signed a contract with a third-party company and arranged for payment to be made indefinitely, so that even if DHARMA no longer existed, these food drops would continue.


When did we find this out??


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## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That was certainly my take on it, but I got shouted down for suggesting Locke might have known, so I must be wrong.


funhaters!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Bai Shen said:


> When did we find this out??


I don't remember what episode it was in. Paging hefe . . .


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## rhuntington3 (May 1, 2001)

drew2k said:


> Rose and Bernard versus Nikki and Paulo. Who would YOU rather have gracing our TV screens this season? Instead of two developed characters with interesting back stories and involvement on the island since day one, we get Frik and Frak just standing around adding to the scenery.


Frik and Frak don't do anything for me. I want Rose and Bernard back.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

wprager said:


> As to why the woman (Ms. Klugh) wanted the _german_ to kill her, it was obviously because she knew something that The Others didn't want the Losties to find out, and she was not sure she could keep this _something_ back. I forget, did Mikhail try to shoot himself as well or did he have nothing to hide?
> 
> Also, from the translations (link posted earlier in this thread, I think) Mikhail kept saying there is another way. What was that other way, I wonder? Is that yet another new question/mystery introduced?


Are we even sure she wanted him to shoot her? I'm wondering now if she meant something else when she said, "you know what you have to do" and when he said "there is another way . . . sorry," that _he_ meant shooting her was the other way. I'm probably just forgetting the scene as a whole, but based only on the conversation, it seems to make more sense this way.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

wprager said:


> Also, does the 3rd party company which does the food drops know where the island is or do they know how to find it? Perhaps part of the "Food Drop Protocol" explained how there is a signal sent out (beacon?) to guide the plane. I guess we'll never know.
> 
> As to why the woman (Ms. Klugh) wanted the _german_ to kill her, it was obviously because she knew something that The Others didn't want the Losties to find out, and she was not sure she could keep this [


The lockdown at the Losties original hatch occurred when the food was dropped didn't it? Was there something about turning off the magnetic force temporarily so the plane could fly over and not crash? So it must have been coordinated between the company and the computor in that hatch--which is long gone. 

It's hard to believe that Ms. Klugh knows more than Ben does, and he didn't shoot himself to avoid capture. Maybe he's just better at resisting torture.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

goblue97 said:


> Jin is Korean, not Chinese


Hey...

fyi.. south korea won 3 table tennis medals in greece, including gold in men's singles...

to china's 6 medals, 3 golds


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

mqpickles said:


> I don't think he knew because he didn't know about the c4. I think he thought it would cause a rescue party or some other defense of the station.
> 
> Locke gets in trouble because he keeps acting on misdirected faith, which has unintended negative consequences. It would be consistent with his pattern to blow up the station by mistake because he had faith that the island (or whoever) would provide some sort of rescue to the station under attack.
> 
> ...


I disagree. I think this is CLASSIC Locke. Even if he DIDN'T know about the C4, I think he had some idea that by pressing that code it was some type of self destruct senquence. Like I said before, HE DOES NOT WANT OFF THE ISLAND. He wouldn't want Sayid coming back and fixing the satelites so they could be rescued. He has ruined attempts to make contact with the outside world before. Why would this be any different than the time he knocked out Sayid in season 1 to prevent them from making radio contact with someone. Plus, when he walked out of The Flame station, he had a satisfied look on his face like he knew exactly what he did. He wasn't freaked out by it. you didn't see him running out of the place telling everyone to take cover and you also didn't see him get surprised by explosion. I think he waited until the rest of the group was safe enough out of the way, entered the code, grabbed his stuff and left before anyone could stop him.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

unicorngoddess said:


> you didn't see him running out of the place telling everyone to take cover


That doesn't help your argument. Only someone who expected an explosion would do those things.

Like I said, I think it's ambiguous, so I don't disagree with your other points.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

mqpickles said:


> That doesn't help your argument. Only someone who expected an explosion would do those things.
> 
> Like I said, I think it's ambiguous, so I don't disagree with your other points.


True. But that's why I think he waited until everyone seemed far enough away. That way no one could stop him and no one would get hurt. One can assume that when he entered the code the computer probably started a count down so you know how much time you have to get out. If so, then a person surprised by that reaction might have took off running.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

stellie93 said:


> It's hard to believe that Ms. Klugh knows more than Ben does, and he didn't shoot himself to avoid capture. Maybe he's just better at resisting torture.


I very specifically avoided any mention of torture or talking. Maybe the _secret_ is not something that can be revealed verbally. Or maybe not.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

devdogaz said:


> I don't remember what episode it was in. Paging hefe . . .


That was not said in the show. It was in a bonus video that was part of the online game, Lost Experience, that was revealed in clips.



> "We have constructed several stations on the island, underground laboratories with the facilities you will need to do your research, with optimal expediency...all of the support you will need, including regular medicine and food drops will be made in perpetuity."


Here is the whole video stitched together.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

hefe said:


> Here is the whole video stitched together.


I think it's a stretch to translate that quote into thinking they've paid some third party to make the supply drops forever.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

dswallow said:


> I think it's a stretch to translate that quote into thinking they've paid some third party to make the supply drops forever.


I make no representation as to what it means...just answering where it was from...


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Wow, only seven pages. This show used to generate seven pages of posts in less than a day.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> Wow, only seven pages. This show used to generate seven pages of posts in less than a day.


It would, if there was a 4-month hiatus.

Greg


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

dswallow said:


> I think it's a stretch to translate that quote into thinking they've paid some third party to make the supply drops forever.


How would you translate it?


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

> "We have constructed several stations on the island, underground laboratories with the facilities you will need to do your research, with optimal expediency...all of the support you will need, including regular medicine and food drops will be made in perpetuity."





devdogaz said:


> dswallow said:
> 
> 
> > I think it's a stretch to translate that quote into thinking they've paid some third party to make the supply drops forever.
> ...


I see nothing in the quote that confirms it's a third party making the food and supply drops, but I don't think anyone can argue with the "forever" part .... unless one wants to argue that DHARMA lies!


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## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

drew2k said:


> Ahh, no - the DHARMA mystery hasn't been solved for me.
> 
> Why was DHARMA on the island?
> Why is food still being dropped?
> ...


Many of these questions have not been answered explicitly, but one can reasonably assume answers to them after watching all of the episodes.

What was DHARMA doing? Experiments, just like they said in the training video. 
The food drops are contacted out.
What happened to the project teams? The Others killed them.
How do you know that no one has checked up on them? And what would it matter?


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

If the Swan hatch was so important that the safety of the world depended on the button being pushed, why did they just abandon it? Desmond wasn't with Dharma, he washed ashore while in a race. What happened to Dharma that something THIS critical just got dropped? If the operator had had a heart attack and died, would the world have been swallowed up in a magnetic black hole or something? I don't think Dharma has been explained well at all.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

What Luke said.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

drew2k said:


> I see nothing in the quote that confirms it's a third party making the food and supply drops, but I don't think anyone can argue with the "forever" part .... unless one wants to argue that DHARMA lies!


The third party assumption was conjecture on my part, but for something to continue "in perpetuity" by definition it must continue indefinitely, and to me that means it has to be handled by an organization that has a pretty good chance of continuing to operate regardless of the circumstances. Since we've seen that the food drops are still ongoing, we can either assume that DHARMA is still in existance, or that the drops were contracted out to a third party.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

devdogaz said:


> Since we've seen that the food drops are still ongoing, we can either assume that DHARMA is still in existance, or that the drops were contracted out to a third party.


Halliburton?


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

drew2k said:


> Halliburton?


Or the Chinese company that dropped food on Jericho Kansas.

phox


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

One thing about this episode that FINALLY even drove me crazy, (as a Lost Apologist, it takes a lot,) was the idea that eye-patch was actually telling us some really interesting tidbits, and then they immediately remind us that, "We might not have told you anything, because he's a liar." It almost would have been better for us viewers to never have met this guy. I know it's been discussed in the thread before, but I rewatched the episode the other day, and it became even more frustrating to hear actual answers about Dharma knowing that you later find out he's lying. Personally, I think we will come to find out that he WASN'T lying, and that he was the LAST surviving member of Dharma, but we sure don't know that yet.


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## TRD_Dan (Oct 13, 2005)

markz said:


> Best theory I've heard yet!  Maybe it will end with young Fred Savage's grandpa telling him it's time to quit playing his game and go to bed, and offering to read him a story!


"As you wish!!!"


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## mitchb2 (Sep 30, 2000)

No backstory for the ping pong table?!?
How did it get into the hatch?
How did it survive the explosion?

Did it once belong to Jack's father?


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