# Does TiVo care about it's existing customers



## fr0gpil0t (Dec 6, 2010)

I started out with a Series 2 with Lifetime and upgraded 3 years ago to an HD with Lifetime. 

The Series 2 has long died and therefore is not checking in. I was looking to buy a Premiere to access some of the new features. No h/w discounts for existing users like they used to offer. No Multi-service discount available as the Series 2 is not checking in. So basically full price for me ;-(

Seems like they don't really care about existing customers and the tens of people who have purchased TiVo's after seeing ours. Plus the HD doesn't actually work well with Switched video.

Time to just get a Cable TV DVR and get h/w refreshes as needed ?


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## NotNowChief (Mar 29, 2012)

Bottom line is cableco DVRs are garbage.

If you're a person who truly understands how much better the TiVo hardware is, just go for it.

Just remember how fast you'll fill up that cableco DVR with 2 tuners and 20 HD hours.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

Another one of these "Tivo owes me something" threads again? How much more of a discount do you want on the box? It's already selling for dirt cheap compared to what they used to be. The MSD policy hasn't changed - you need a full priced sub to qualify. You don't have one so tough luck.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

OP - I think you came to the wrong place for sympathy. That is the way it goes.

If you want help resurrecting your old S2 so that it CAN call in, just respond with appropriate details.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Let me know if I have this correct: Based on the fact that you are an "existing customer" that hasn't actually paid anything to Tivo for three years, you want them to give you a special deal. Did I miss anything?


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## fr0gpil0t (Dec 6, 2010)

scandia101 said:


> Let me know if I have this correct: Based on the fact that you are an "existing customer" that hasn't actually paid anything to Tivo for three years, you want them to give you a special deal. Did I miss anything?


Correct I do. If TiVo are happy to 'recognize" me as an existing customer and give me the $100 MSD then I will remain with them. In return they will get to keep me for another 3 years - I will spend ~$500 and more on their new option like Stream. I will be cheaper to setup as a new customer as I know how to install the box so will not require any technical support.

The alternative is now I understand TiVo has no interest in their customers, I will start looking at alternatives I will keep the box for another couple of months while I look at options. In this time I will spend no new money with TiVo, I will not speak highly of them to my friends and I will probably spend my money elsewhere.

Which is the better deal for TiVo ?

I would have thought it is to TiVo's advantage to get me onto the latest h/w look at the extra I can thenpurchase. Most companies in the tech business recognize it's good to keep your customers h/w current - even AT&T does with cell phones. If you don't make it easy and cost effective then you give your customers an opportunity to switch. Then you lose the customer forever.

Not looking for sympathy here - just surprised TiVo does not want to keep it's existing customers.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

WhiskeyTango said:


> Another one of these "Tivo owes me something" threads again? How much more of a discount do you want on the box? It's already selling for dirt cheap compared to what they used to be. The MSD policy hasn't changed - you need a full priced sub to qualify. You don't have one so tough luck.


TiVo treats paying customers the same as well so I don't see your point.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

The T&C are clear. Repair your S2, have it call in, and get your discount.


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## fr0gpil0t (Dec 6, 2010)

The S2 hit the dumpster years ago.

It's not about the T&Cs it's marketing 101 - keep your existing customers and keep them on current h/w.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

WhiskeyTango said:


> Another one of these "Tivo owes me something" threads again? How much more of a discount do you want on the box? It's already selling for dirt cheap compared to what they used to be. ...


This....I paid $800 for the original Series 3 when it came out. Just replaced it with an XL4 at less than half the price...and you can get other Premieres for a fraction of the XL4's price.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

fr0gpil0t said:


> The S2 hit the dumpster years ago.
> 
> It's not about the T&Cs it's marketing 101 - keep your existing customers and keep them on current h/w.


The thing is though, that you aren't really an existing customer, you are merely a user of their services (drain on their resources) for which they get nothing in return. That's not what businesses want in a customer.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Get the Premiere + Stream combo for $200 from Best Buy. Use the 'ol coupon code PLSR to get $100 off Lifetime when activating.

That's about as good as it's going to get. They have expenses to recoup for subsidizing the box as much as they do in the first place.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I wish TiVo would do an offer on lifetime transfers to get people to upgrade.
Maybe $200 - $250 to move lifetime from any Series 3 to any Premiere.
I would jump on that in a heartbeat.

Don't think it'll ever happen though.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

fr0gpil0t said:


> Not looking for sympathy here - just surprised TiVo does not want to keep it's existing customers.


Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it true. If they didn't care about current customers they wouldn't offer the MSD at all. They wouldn't make upgrade offers to existing customers. They wouldn't offer S3 owners an opportunity to upgrade to Lifetime for $99 when purchasing a new unit. All of which they do/have done. The fact that you don't meet the criteria is irrelevant to how they treat their customer base as a whole.


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## fr0gpil0t (Dec 6, 2010)

WhiskeyTango said:


> Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it true. If they didn't care about current customers they wouldn't offer the MSD at all. They wouldn't make upgrade offers to existing customers. They wouldn't offer S3 owners an opportunity to upgrade to Lifetime for $99 when purchasing a new unit. All of which they do/have done. The fact that you don't meet the criteria is irrelevant to how they treat their customer base as a whole.


WhiskeyTango - don't understand what you are saying ?

I'm a former Series 2 owner and a current Series 3 owner with lifetime- when I purchase a new unit they expect me to pay for full price for the unit and for a new lifetime contract - where are you getting this $99 deal it's a fantasy.

To others that have replied I would have purchased a new unit on line this afternoon if TiVo had acknowledged my loyalty in a tiny way. It seems because I didn't pay full price for lifetime last time I'm off their list.The fact I have paid $299 twice is irrelevant. I think a simple solution would be to recognize former ownership and allow you to transfer your subscription to the new unit and then pay a reasonable lifetime fee ($200-$300). That way I don't ebay the old unit - losing them a potential new customer.

I'm a sample size of one but I will probably buy something else - and ebay my HD unit. So as one of the replies said my unit will continue to be a drag on Tivo and they will get no new money from me. A going out of business strategy there is a lot of choice out there.

Soon after I bought the TiVo HD - TiVo made it very clear new s/w features or device upgrades available only for the Series 4. So having obsoleted my unit at least give me a reasonable way of upgrading.

TiVo you lost a loyal customer and your unhelpful sales rep was not willing to try to keep me.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

fr0gpil0t said:


> I'm a former Series 2 owner and a current Series 3 owner with lifetime- when I purchase a new unit they expect me to pay for full price for the unit and for a new lifetime contract - where are you getting this $99 deal it's a fantasy.


You would "have" to pay full price, because you're not fulfilling the requirements -- the existing lifetime unit calling in. You basically broke the "contract".

Plus, you can get the MSD lifetime discount very easily and AFAIK not in any way violating Tivo's rules -- have someone ELSE order it and set it up, then transfer it to your account.


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## fr0gpil0t (Dec 6, 2010)

mattack said:


> \
> 
> Plus, you can get the MSD lifetime discount very easily and AFAIK not in any way violating Tivo's rules -- have someone ELSE order it and set it up, then transfer it to your account.


Can you explain how that works please ?


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

fr0gpil0t said:


> WhiskeyTango - don't understand what you are saying ?
> 
> I'm a former Series 2 owner and a current Series 3 owner with lifetime- when I purchase a new unit they expect me to pay for full price for the unit and for a new lifetime contract - where are you getting this $99 deal it's a fantasy.
> 
> ...


I know you wouldn't want facts to get in the way of a good whining rant but how did TiVo obsolete your TiVoHD not giving you a reasonable way to upgrade? I am still running two of them, both did everything promised at purchase and still do everything promised, I didn't think the products would be brought up to whatever the replacement offered when I made the purchases. I consider buying the new product a reasonable way to upgrade if I was inclined to do so, I am not, at least not until mine break or are really obsolete.


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## fr0gpil0t (Dec 6, 2010)

Chris Gerhard said:


> I know you wouldn't want facts to get in the way of a good whining rant but how did TiVo obsolete your TiVoHD not giving you a reasonable way to upgrade? I am still running two of them, both did everything promised at purchase and still do everything promised, I didn't think the products would be brought up to whatever the replacement offered when I made the purchases. I consider buying the new product a reasonable way to upgrade if I was inclined to do so, I am not, at least not until mine break or are really obsolete.


It's not a rant !! It's a statement of how I feel based on facts. No I don't expect all the Premiere feature to be on the HD. But have you noticed anything new is now Series 4 only. It is done to make you upgrade. Of course my TiVo still works as bought but in the gadget world some upgrades are expected especially when v1.0 was flaky and then a less expensive way to upgrade. Look at your iphone and the s/w upgrades and then the deal every 2 years to get the latest h/w.

Obviously there is no point in trying to state how you feel amongst a group of Tivo Diehards. Perhaps you will care when TiVo loses too many customers and finally goes broke. How many quarters can you post losses and rely on Patent infringements court case winnings to stay a float ?

I use to love TiVo not anymore ;-(


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

fr0gpil0t said:


> The S2 hit the dumpster years ago.
> 
> ...


Then you are at fault for not doing your homework.

I gather that you got the MSD discount on lifetime on the S3 because the full price lifetime S3 was still running at the time.

If you still had that unit running, you could get the MSD discount on lifetime on another TiVo.

I don't think TiVo has ever made it a secret that MSD depends on having a full price subscription qualifying unit.

Chances are good that you could have gotten that S2 working again with $10 worth of capacitors.

Possibly you would have had to have replaced the hard drive.

If the motherboard had actually died you could have picked up a used unsubcribed unit of the same model and moved the TiVo Service Number to which the lifetime sub is tied by moving the crypto chip.

If you'd done the research you'd have known these things.

If I'd done more research first, I'd have done a number of things differently with my first TiVo, an S1 I acquired in 2006.

We live and we learn, usually the hard way.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

fr0gpil0t said:


> WhiskeyTango - don't understand what you are saying ?


What's so hard to understand? WhiskeyTango outlined all the ways TiVo supports/care about current customers.



fr0gpil0t said:


> I'm a former Series 2 owner and a current Series 3 owner with lifetime- when I purchase a new unit they expect me to pay for full price for the unit and for a new lifetime contract - where are you getting this $99 deal it's a fantasy.


Just because you don't know something does not make it false. Plenty of us have gotten this deal - it is how I added lifetime to my original Series 3 last fall and yes it only cost $99.



fr0gpil0t said:


> To others that have replied I would have purchased a new unit on line this afternoon if TiVo had acknowledged my loyalty in a tiny way. It seems because I didn't pay full price for lifetime last time I'm off their list.The fact I have paid $299 twice is irrelevant. I think a simple solution would be to recognize former ownership and allow you to transfer your subscription to the new unit and then pay a reasonable lifetime fee ($200-$300). That way I don't ebay the old unit - losing them a potential new customer.


It is your money so if $100 breaks the deal for you so be it.



fr0gpil0t said:


> I'm a sample size of one but I will probably buy something else - and ebay my HD unit. So as one of the replies said my unit will continue to be a drag on Tivo and they will get no new money from me. A going out of business strategy there is a lot of choice out there.


 Good luck with that the other stand alone DVR appliance options for cable users is exactly ZERO. If you want you can go with your providers options or build and support a HTPC - I have one it works fine but don't use it as a DVR.



fr0gpil0t said:


> Soon after I bought the TiVo HD - TiVo made it very clear new s/w features or device upgrades available only for the Series 4. So having obsoleted my unit at least give me a reasonable way of upgrading.
> 
> TiVo you lost a loyal customer and your unhelpful sales rep was not willing to try to keep me.


They did add Pandora but given that the Premiere is 3 years old I wouldn't expect (and don't want) any changes to my Series 3 units. I don't know what you think "loyal" means. It isn't someone who demands a special deal and if they don't get it goes elsewhere. If you were actually a loyal customer you would have bought a Premiere long ago at full price.


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## humm (Nov 29, 2011)

Chris Gerhard said:


> I know you wouldn't want facts to get in the way of a good whining rant but how did TiVo obsolete your TiVoHD not giving you a reasonable way to upgrade? I am still running two of them, both did everything promised at purchase and still do everything promised, I didn't think the products would be brought up to whatever the replacement offered when I made the purchases. I consider buying the new product a reasonable way to upgrade if I was inclined to do so, I am not, at least not until mine break or are really obsolete.


Yeah, I have a 2 or 3 yr old TivoHD that still works perfectly. thinking about upgrading, but I expect years more service out of this box.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

fr0gpil0t said:


> Soon after I bought the TiVo HD - TiVo made it very clear new s/w features or device upgrades available only for the Series 4. So having obsoleted my unit at least give me a reasonable way of upgrading.


Soon after the Premiere was released, Series 3 lifetime subscribers (and possibly other subscribers) had the opportunity to upgrade to a Premiere at a discount which amounted to paying the retail price on the premiere and getting lifetime service for it at $199. I took advantage of this introductory offer and purchased a premiere with lifetime. Tivo gave you a reasonable way to upgrade and you declined their offer.


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## takeshi (Jul 22, 2010)

fr0gpil0t said:


> Most companies in the tech business recognize it's good to keep your customers h/w current - even AT&T does with cell phones. If you don't make it easy and cost effective then you give your customers an opportunity to switch.


"Most companies" do not. The wireless carriers provide subsidies in exchange for contracts. They don't offer subsidies simply for customer loyalty or out of the goodness of their hearts. They more than make up for the subsidy in what they charge you for service so they're not doing you any favors. The wireless carriers are actually looking to eliminate subsidies but they're all afraid to be the first as US customers expect subsidies and will probably ditch the first carriers to drop them.

Don't delude yourself. No corporation cares about its customers. They care about shareholders and profit. If you're only going to use companies that "care" then you'll be using products from a very short list of companies. I'd be very surprised if your cable co cares. I know mine doesn't. Use what you need/want/prefer.



fr0gpil0t said:


> Time to just get a Cable TV DVR and get h/w refreshes as needed ?


Your call to make. I wouldn't touch my cable co's DVR's. Have you actually checked into what your cable co offers? Mine certainly doesn't refresh "as needed". Their DVR's are all antiquated pieces of junk. Cable co's vary so you need to make your decision based on what your company offers and your preferences.



fr0gpil0t said:


> Obviously there is no point in trying to state how you feel amongst a group of Tivo Diehards.


That's a typical response from someone who isn't getting the sympathy that was expected. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't make me a diehard or fanboy. I use what I need/want -- not what I think comes from a company that "cares" about me.



fr0gpil0t said:


> Look at your iphone and the s/w upgrades


Look at the devices that IOS 6 doesn't support. No piece of tech indefinitely supports new features.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

After reading this thread it's clear that this is becoming a game of flogging the fr0g (pun intended). While most of you are showing absolutely no sympathy, I'll throw the guy a bone. He had lifetime service on his S2 but it died. He says he can't get MSD since the S2 isn't checking in. 

What I'm confused about is that he says he has a HD with lifetime, so why doesn't he qualify for MSD if he gets another Tivo Premiere? Am I missing something here or did everyone else simply gloss over that point? If the HD is connected and checking in then I'm pretty sure he qualifies for MSD on the Premiere unless Tivo has changed their polcy on MSD. I no longer have an active Tivo so I have no idea what their price plans are anymore.

I have to agree with takeshi in that Tivo and any other corporation doesn't care about their customers. They only care about their business. Once they've got you subscribed they've lost all interest in you as a customer since you're already hooked. I think most people here will agree that Tivo customer service is about one step below pathetic at best.


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## DaveDFW (Jan 25, 2005)

mr.unnatural said:


> What I'm confused about is that he says he has a HD with lifetime, so why doesn't he qualify for MSD if he gets another Tivo Premiere? Am I missing something here or did everyone else simply gloss over that point? If the HD is connected and checking in then I'm pretty sure he qualifies for MSD on the Premiere unless Tivo has changed their polcy on MSD. I no longer have an active Tivo so I have no idea what their price plans are anymore.


Just guessing here:

MSD requires that full price was paid for the service on the qualifying box. If his S2 was the qualifying box, he could have purchased a discounted lifetime on the HD. When the S2 didn't check in for six months, he no longer had a qualifying box--that is, the only remaining box's lifetime was not full price.

While this policy might be well-known among TCF'ers, it's probably less well-known among Tivo owners at large.


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## moedaman (Aug 21, 2012)

mr.unnatural said:


> I think most people here will agree that Tivo customer service is about one step below pathetic at best.


You are wrong sir!

Comcast support is pathetic and Tivo support is better than that.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

moedaman said:


> You are wrong sir!
> 
> Comcast support is pathetic and Tivo support is better than that.


Everytime I call support and it's not frequent I get some ya hoo who wants me to reset my router and open ports on it. Really, the last three times I called I got this line of BS for unrelated issues. When I explain to them my DHCP server runs separately from the router their head explodes and I end up having to spend 15 minutes educating them about DHCP, reservations, and internal networks v external ones. I've just gone to saying OK, and then rebooting the server and router separately. Sometimes I've done this so quickly that the CSR on the phone thinks I haven't done it.

Actually had on guy tell me to wait until he told me to plug the router back in after I had already waited 30 seconds while he was running his mouth. No wait, that was the stupid TW rep. I get them confused....


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## fr0gpil0t (Dec 6, 2010)

DaveDFW said:


> Just guessing here:
> 
> MSD requires that full price was paid for the service on the qualifying box. If his S2 was the qualifying box, he could have purchased a discounted lifetime on the HD. When the S2 didn't check in for six months, he no longer had a qualifying box--that is, the only remaining box's lifetime was not full price.
> 
> While this policy might be well-known among TCF'ers, it's probably less well-known among Tivo owners at large.


You are correct that is why I don't qualify.

Surprisingly I wasn't and still are not looking for sympathy. I made my post because I was genuinely surprised TiVo didn't cut a break for existing customers. I'm in the tech s/w business and it's just standard we look after existing customers because we know the acquisition costs of getting a new customer are a lot higher than keeping an existing customer - sales, marketing and initial tech support.

I've now knowthe policy about the oldest or most expensive device still checking in. I guess this is either to stop the resell of old devices or to give the concept of lifetime having a finite term.

If you read my posts you noticed I don't want this for free - my proposal is they offered to transfer lifetime for $100 less than they normally sell it for. That way you pay a reasonable amount for on-going service and your old device does not go to ebay where potentially TiVo loses a future customer. Seems good for everyone I get new h/w and they get to keep me with a reasonable return.

Every time you put a bump in the road or make it slightly hard increases the chance the customer will look elsewhere. I might not find anything else but now I'm looking I wasn't before.

What I've found interesting owning a TiVo they have never really tried to sell me services or an upgrade after the initial sale. In someways it's nice but it's perfectly normal for companies to try extract maximum dollars from you.

For all those who say TiVo is a company and companies don't care..then please check their financials - perhaps they should care and they might have better results. Sad to see the company that invented the DVR market struggle so much.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Stormspace said:


> Everytime I call support and it's not frequent I get some ya hoo who wants me to reset my router and open ports on it. Really, the last three times I called I got this line of BS for unrelated issues. When I explain to them my DHCP server runs separately from the router their head explodes and I end up having to spend 15 minutes educating them about DHCP, reservations, and internal networks v external ones. I've just gone to saying OK, and then rebooting the server and router separately. Sometimes I've done this so quickly that the CSR on the phone thinks I haven't done it.
> 
> Actually had on guy tell me to wait until he told me to plug the router back in after I had already waited 30 seconds while he was running his mouth. No wait, that was the stupid TW rep. I get them confused....


I wonder in your own job do you get more money than the TiVo CSRs, I will make a guess and say yes, when a TiVo CSR knows enough to really help they also get another higher paying job.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

lessd said:


> I wonder in your own job do you get more money than the TiVo CSRs, I will make a guess and say yes, when a TiVo CSR knows enough to really help they also get another higher paying job.


I suppose you have a point, I just hate working through a freaking script every time I call support and if my set up doesn't match their script they get confused.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

fr0gpil0t said:


> You are correct that is why I don't qualify.
> 
> Surprisingly I wasn't and still are not looking for sympathy. I made my post because I was genuinely surprised TiVo didn't cut a break for existing customers. I'm in the tech s/w business and it's just standard we look after existing customers because we know the acquisition costs of getting a new customer are a lot higher than keeping an existing customer - sales, marketing and initial tech support.
> 
> ...


If you'd kept that S2 running, it would have qualified you for $100 off of the price of lifetime on an other unit.

Sorry, the idea of someone dumpstering a lifetimed unit just bothers me big time.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

lessd said:


> I wonder in your own job do you get more money than the TiVo CSRs, I will make a guess and say yes, when a TiVo CSR knows enough to really help they also get another higher paying job.


It's the Peter Principle, you get promoted up to your level of incompetence.

So I'm guessing that the CSR's were really good at whatever they were doing before that.


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## WO312 (Jan 24, 2003)

I have to agree with the OP. I think most of you guys are missing the point. You are stuck on pointing out Tivo's existing policy.

Face it - he bought an S2 and paid full lifetime. He bought an S3 and paid for lifetime - $100.

Why would it be so hard for Tivo to amend their policies to say that if you currently own a machine with lifetime, regardless of how much you paid for it, you can get lifetime on a new machine for $100 off??? They get a sale and keep a customer happy. Instead, at least in this case, they are getting nothing. It's all about keeping customers. And in any case, your first purchase would be at full price.

Tivo obviously thinks they are better off with their existing policy, and that it is bringing in more revenue. It wouldn't surprise me that they are losing more revenue opportunities than they realize.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

fr0gpil0t said:


> If you read my posts you noticed I don't want this for free - my proposal is they offered to transfer lifetime for $100 less than they normally sell it for.


Throwing it out there again, coupon code PLSR to get $100 off Lifetime when activating was still working as of a few days ago.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

fr0gpil0t said:


> Can you explain how that works please ?


Someone that already has a lifetime Tivo buys another lifetime Tivo.. then you buy it for them (or heck, they could GIVE it to you), and you move it onto your account.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

moedaman said:


> You are wrong sir!
> 
> Comcast support is pathetic and Tivo support is better than that.


I stand corrected. I haven't had to deal with Comcast in ages so I forgot just how bad they were.


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