# Fios Pixilation



## Pxhoynak (Sep 10, 2015)

I just installed my new Roamio Plus but I'm having an issue. When I go to test the channels some don't come in at all and some are highly pixilated. From what I see the cable card is activated. When I checked the signal strength the TiVo says it is 69. The rep on the phone thinks that is the problem but I moved the TiVo to a different TV that was closer to the ONT and had the same issue. 

They are sending a tech out today with a new cable card but could the signal strength be the issue?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Fios usually has a pretty hot signal that maxes out at 100. Sometimes the signal is so hot an extra splitter or attenuator is needed behind the Tivo.

69 is low, so there could be something going on with the ONT, coax, or a splitter somewhere.


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## Pxhoynak (Sep 10, 2015)

When the tech comes what can he do to fix it if it's because of a splitter somewhere?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

He can replace whatever is causing it.


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## Pxhoynak (Sep 10, 2015)

Would the possible weak signals affect the TiVo minis I plan to hook up next? I plan to ask the tech to check all of the other connections just to be sure.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

It depends what the problem is. A bad splitter or damaged coax could hurt a moca signal too.


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## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

I had the same issue recently with FX, AMC and a few other channels. Verizon came by to replace my over 10 year old ONT and that fixed the issue.


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## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

For the record my issue broke the moca connection as well. In fact it's still broken but I haven't rebooted the Roamio yet, only the mini.


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## Teeps (Aug 16, 2001)

It's almost always the coax cable and/or its terminations.
I would start there.


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## Pxhoynak (Sep 10, 2015)

I guess I got a bad tech. He's saying the signal is fine and won't look at the splitters. Saying the TiVo is defective. Also tried a second cable card. Still not working.


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## Pxhoynak (Sep 10, 2015)

Question. If this doesn't work is Comcast any better getting TiVo to work?


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Pxhoynak said:


> Question. If this doesn't work is Comcast any better getting TiVo to work?


Hi,
Comcast, I don't think so. If the tech checked your signal and told you he thinks the Tivo is defective, he might be full of it, but I would start talking to Tivo about a possible replacement. I have had Tivo and Fios and so have a couple family members, Fios signals tend to run hot, Whenever I have checked signal strength on my Tivos I have never seen a signal less than the high 80's to mid 90's and that is after a couple of splitters.


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## Pxhoynak (Sep 10, 2015)

Well I called Tivo and the box is fine... they told me to call Verizon and tell them that my signal strength is only 66 and I need a min of 80 and my db was 25 and I need a min of 29 and a max of 35. So I called Verizon and the tech support agent refused to help... Said that Fios is not made to support Tivo and that they won't help. If I had them come out it would be $95 an hour to replace lines. I am so livid right now.... Tito did suggest a signal booster on the coax just before it goes into the box and I explained that to Verizon and they kept telling me it was a range extender for my internet router.... I guess Comcast is my only choice?


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## Pxhoynak (Sep 10, 2015)

This gets better... the Verizon tech that was here before that would not change the splitters left me (2) of them. we changed the first splitter from the Verizon ONT in the crawl space and now I have pictures on most of the channels but some pixilation on some and a few don't come in at all. The signal is up to 73%, should I change the other splitter that is in the crawl space? At this point Verizon won't help me.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Your best bet is to connect the TiVo as close to the ONT as possible with a TV so you can troubleshoot to see what signal strength you are getting before any splits and long runs. If the signal is fine direct from the ONT then, you know it is either the cable or a splitter. You could also try the same process working backwards from your install location. One thing to note that even if the cable looks fine, it could still be bad. I had a short patch cable which was new running from the TiVo to the wall and the signal strength would change with the cable moving. I finally found a spot where there were no issues until I feel like replacing the cable. 

Also one thing to note with FiOS splitters they should say which split if you have more than a dual splitter has the stronger signal. Make sure you aren't using the one that drops the signal the most if you only have one split. 

Worst case you could try the VZ direct forums on dslreports.com


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## Pxhoynak (Sep 10, 2015)

I was able to get 1 TiVo mini working. The second one I hooked up didn't find the Roamio so I still need to so fixing. I'm still considering changing to Comcast because of the rudeness of the last Fios tech I spoke to.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Pxhoynak said:


> I was able to get 1 TiVo mini working. The second one I hooked up didn't find the Roamio so I still need to so fixing. I'm still considering changing to Comcast because of the rudeness of the last Fios tech I spoke to.


Believe me, you're going to get the same percentage of rudeness and incompetence at Comcast, if not more! They aren't the most hated company in America for nothing!

What I would do to throw it in their face is request one of their DVRs temporarily and if that has the same issues, then you KNOW that it's not the TiVo and it's something else down the line towards your ONT. This will also prove it to them and then they would be required to come out to repair it I would think. Once they do, return the DVR and use your TiVo. Don't forget to throw an "I told you so" and maybe a middle finger in there somewhere too!


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## Pxhoynak (Sep 10, 2015)

I would love to do that but I have 2 Quantum DVRs that work fine and they were sure to point that out when I called.


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## Pxhoynak (Sep 10, 2015)

This morning I restarted the Roamio and the Mini finally connected. Is this normal?


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

A TiVo Mini can take a day or two to work if you just plug it in and turn it on. Forcing it to phone the mother ship will often get it working.

Since replacing one splitter helped, if you haven't replaced the second splitter, you might try doing that. MoCA runs at frequencies in the 850MHz to 1500MHz range (the new MoCA 2.0 standard goes as high as 2150MHz), so for best results the splitters should be rated for the higher frequencies. Many older splitters are only good up to about 1000MHz, which is fine for OTA or CATV broadcasts, but not really good enough for MoCA.

If any of your splitters have unused ports, they need to have 75-ohm terminations attached to the port.

Check all cable connections to make sure they are screwed down tight. Loose connections can cause reflections that mess up the RF signals. I work with RF a lot, and the first thing I check for is loose connectors -- a lot of problems end up being nothing more than a loose connector.


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

I have FIOS and my signal strength has always been strong (at or near max), but I was getting pixelation on some channels on my TiVo that my FIOS DVR was not seeing until I stopped using the house coax wiring and switched to an RG6 home run I had previous used with DirecTv.

Based on suggestions, I tried using an attenuator to reduce the signal strength, but it didn't help.

I agree you should troubleshoot by placing the TiVo as close as possible to the ONT and see if you can't get something closer to 100%/40dB. Another possibility would be to rent a Verizon STB to see if pixelation occurs with that. If it does, then Verizon should be more receptive about troubleshooting, especially if you can rule out your house wiring.

fwiw, I have a pair of minis connected up by Moca using my house wiring, and they've never shown a problem. 

I do use 5-2400Mhz splitters and I have enough of them so I can swap them around as needed to avoid unused ports. For what it's worth they support DC PASS back because DirecTv needed it to power their switch. 

If you can prove you have strong signal at the ONT, then you can start tracing it back and find the weak link.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Pxhoynak said:


> This morning I restarted the Roamio and the Mini finally connected. Is this normal?


Hi,
When you reboot the Tivos, they phone home and pickup new account changes. You get the same effect by first going into the Roamio network settings and connecting to the Tivo Service and then doing the same on the new mini. 
Do change that second splitter if you can reach it with the Verizon branded one. If you still are getting a poor picture quality, do consider a MoCA compatible amp for the one line that is giving you problems, but do not place it just before the Tivo box, get it as far back up the line on that leg as you can go. You would look for a single out port and MoCA compatibility. Here is one
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=PDI-MBA-101-A+&_sacat=0 
This one gives you about 10 db.
First check for loose connections and install 75 Ohm F terminators on any open coax ports, including splitters and wall jacks, as previously recommended.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Pxhoynak said:


> I would love to do that but I have 2 Quantum DVRs that work fine and they were sure to point that out when I called.


Have you tried hooking one up to the same coax jack that your Roamio is connected to?


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## caughey (May 26, 2007)

fcfc2 said:


> Do change that second splitter if you can reach it with the Verizon branded one. First check for loose connections and install 75 Ohm F terminators on any open coax ports, including splitters and wall jacks, as previously recommended.





HarperVision said:


> Have you tried hooking one up to the same coax jack that your Roamio is connected to?


Try these suggestions. And don't try just the same coax jack, unplug the cable from the FiOS box and plug that same end directly into the TiVo.

Did the tech give you any info about the signal, or did he just say "it's fine"?

Did you tell FiOS you replaced one splitter and the signal level went up 7 points? If they still refuse to help you after that info, politely ask them whom to speak to about canceling your service. That may make them more cooperative.

What kinds of signal and SNR numbers are you seeing on the channels that don't have pixelation compared to the ones that do and the ones that don't come in at all? Since these problems can be related to the frequency of the channel, you might learn something by looking at the frequencies of the channels with similar performance.

Once you've done what you reasonably can, if it's still not working right, you may have gotten a bad TiVo box. I don't think it's likely, but once you've eliminated everything else.... I don't know what the TiVO CSR was looking at when the said the box was fine...I'm pretty sure they can't tell that over the phone.

FiOS and TiVo are a really good combination...you will forget the pain of getting it working shortly after you do get it working.


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## Pxhoynak (Sep 10, 2015)

I did change the splitter today but the signal actually went down. I think because it's an 8 port and I only need 3 on that one. I did order a 2 port and a 4 port splitter so hopefully that helps. I did but some terminators also if I need them. 

Some channels still do not come in. Mostly the lower numbers that are not HD but some HD channels are highly distorted. Hopefully this helps. 

I did call the rep who was here on his cell since he did say to call him if I wanted him to see if he can run over and put the splitter in over his lunch. Once I mentioned to him that it did work after I put the first splitter in he got cocky and said he would have to call me back. 

As for the amplifier. All of the cables are run in the crawl space under the house so I can't put it there before the splits happen. Is it ok to put just before the TiVo box? Or is there one that does not require power?

I could also try moving the Roamio to the front living room where the ONT is and maybe it will make a difference. 
I didn't call Verizon back yet but may do it. They left a sour taste in my mouth. I might try Comcast but I'm not sure they will fix the coax issue during the install since I only need a cablecard from them along either the phone and Internet. 

Thanks for everyone's help, much appreciated.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Pxhoynak said:


> I did change the splitter today but the signal actually went down. I think because it's an 8 port and I only need 3 on that one. I did order a 2 port and a 4 port splitter so hopefully that helps. I did but some terminators also if I need them.
> 
> Some channels still do not come in. Mostly the lower numbers that are not HD but some HD channels are highly distorted. Hopefully this helps.
> 
> ...


Hi, 
An 8 port splitter will usually give you twice as much as signal loss as a 4 port one...so you will actually gain quite a bit of signal strength by switching to that and hopefully it will be with a Verizon MoCA rated splitter. Don't want to add fuel to the fire, but if the installer left an 8 way splitter with several unterminated ports...it is a bad sign. Most Fios installers I have dealt with are extremely helpful and cooperative and generous and competent. The main / first splitter is probably the most important one. I would consider calling the tech and simply asking if he could just drop off a 4 way at your place when he gets a chance and replace it yourself if you have to.
Regarding the amp, placing an amp on an already degraded signal is a waste, don't bother. Most modern amps are designed to be powered by an adapter running over a length of coax, they are also usually weather sealed, because the ideal location to boost a signal is at the beginning where the signal is best, that is why they are usually designed with 4-8 ports.


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## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

To the OP, you should check your splitters and make sure none are open ended, meaning if a existing connector doesn't have a cable hooked up to it get a terminator and seal that connection.
Do that to every open connection you have. Also remove any splitters that do not need to be in the system and replace all your old splitters with new just to be sure.
Furthermore, outside and inside make sure all connections are tight, outside check for corrosion at a given connection and make sure no moisture is in the seal of a given connector. Been there, done this.
Good luck!

Sent from my LG G4 using Tapatalk


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## Pxhoynak (Sep 10, 2015)

The splitter I bought from Amazon is a Verizon Fios 2 port splitter 5-1675 mhx rating... I just noticed that there are 2 splitters I can find right next to each other... one 3 port and the 6 port... I will use the new 2 port when I get it Sunday and then more one of the cables that were in the 3 port to the six port. I don't know why Verizon would have a three port splitter right next to a 4 port that was there which was a Direct TV splitter. But I did notice a signal drop since I put the 8 port in. Once the terminators are in hopefully it works. 

I did call Comcast and they would charge $100 to rewire (1) Coax line... If I do want to have someone come out and run me a new line who would I call? Would it be best to rewire one direct line right to the Tivo?

Thanks


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## Teeps (Aug 16, 2001)

Pxhoynak said:


> *I did call Comcast and they would charge $100 to rewire (1) Coax line...
> 
> **If I do want to have someone come out and run me a new line who would I call?
> 
> ***Would it be best to rewire one direct line right to the Tivo?


* though that price sounds outrageous; it's probably reasonable for a service call and on site work.

** a general contractor should be able to run the cable, just depends on conditions.

*** yes.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Teeps said:


> * though that price sounds outrageous; it's probably reasonable for a service call and on site work. ** a general contractor should be able to run the cable, just depends on conditions. *** yes.


He mentioned a DirecTV splitter, which I take to mean that he is switching from DTV to fios. In which case they use high grade RG6 cables in their installs, so unless there's bad connections or a cable got crimped or cut accidentally, he should be fine with his current wiring I would think.


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## Pxhoynak (Sep 10, 2015)

My wife had DirectTV before and switched to Fios. So I think Verizon screwed the install when they installed their service.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

Pxhoynak said:


> The splitter I bought from Amazon is a Verizon Fios 2 port splitter 5-1675 mhx rating... I just noticed that there are 2 splitters I can find right next to each other... one 3 port and the 6 port... I will use the new 2 port when I get it Sunday and then more one of the cables that were in the 3 port to the six port. I don't know why Verizon would have a three port splitter right next to a 4 port that was there which was a Direct TV splitter. But I did notice a signal drop since I put the 8 port in. Once the terminators are in hopefully it works.
> 
> I did call Comcast and they would charge $100 to rewire (1) Coax line... If I do want to have someone come out and run me a new line who would I call? Would it be best to rewire one direct line right to the Tivo?
> 
> Thanks


If the Direct TV splitter is still in use remove it as satellite TV splitters are designed to work at a much higher frequency range than cable does.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Jed1 said:


> If the Direct TV splitter is still in use remove it as satellite TV splitters are designed to work at a much higher frequency range than cable does.


 Not true, they still cover the lower ranges to allow their deca signals to pass through, just as cable ones go higher to allow moca to pass.


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## Teeps (Aug 16, 2001)

Pxhoynak said:


> My wife had DirectTV before and switched to Fios.
> 
> So I think Verizon screwed the install when they installed their service.


In the end I would be surprised if this is NOT true.



HarperVision said:


> He mentioned a DirecTV splitter, which I take to mean that he is switching from DTV to fios. In which case they use high grade RG6 cables in their installs,
> 
> so unless there's bad connections or a cable got crimped or cut accidentally, he should be fine with his current wiring I would think.


I agree; but far as I have read the cabling has not been proven.

I would run a single known good RG6* cable from the first fios connection to the tivo and nothing else.
If that works then there IS a problem in the house's cabling, connections, terminations or other hardware.
If that does not fix the problem then my next move would be return the tivo.

* It has been my experience that, since the switch to digital format, cable and termination quality must be very high. 
To the extent that I buy only factory terminated cables. 
Then before installing them I connect the devices to make sure everything works.


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## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

From a few posts back it sounds as if the OP has several splitters he does not need in line and that are not terminated. My guess is that is his signal loss and his pixelation problem.
Like someone suggested, run a line straight to the TiVo and see what's what.

Sent from my LG G4 using Tapatalk


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

Sounds to me like you may have two disjoint coax networks in place. Either just one network (and figure out which one connects to which ports around the house), or use a splitter to join them at the root.

There are many potential issues that could cause problems, that have easy fixes once they are identified. I think it is way too early to resort to returning the Tivo.


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## Pxhoynak (Sep 10, 2015)

I just got rid of one splitter. After we got rid of the one splitter and added the Fios 6 port things got better but I lost mostly lower channels but some higher ones like TNT which is weird. I just took everything from one splitter and put them on the same Fios splitter I got the lower channels back..... 2-12 etc. but I noticed there are 2 coax coming from above the crawl space. There must be a splitter I just hope I can get to it. It's just below where the Fios modem plugs into the wall. 

Would running guided setup again fix anything? Maybe find the channels since I fixed it somewhat? 

So if I need to call someone out to do it would they know how to maneuver the Fios equipment? 

If in get an amplifier off Amazon what kind would work or get the one listed here from eBay? I can have an outlet ran in the crawl space fairly easily. 

Thanks


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

The way that lost channels are shifting around could mean that some branches of the "coax tree" are not properly terminated. Every port from every splitter needs to either connect to a device (TiVo, STB, etc.), or have a 75-ohm termination attached. Also make sure all connections to the splitters are snug. If you have MoCA adapters with unconnected TV/STB ports, those also need termination. Any unused coax ports coming out of the wall should also have a 75-ohm termination. Any ports that are not terminated properly will cause reflections that mess up the TV signals in weird ways, causing some channels to be weak at one point in the system and strong at a different point in the system. Proper terminations ensure that the signals are distributed evenly without weak/strong points.

This isn't likely to be a problem related to guided setup. Of course, it shouldn't hurt to run it again, but it probably won't help.

The main consideration if you decide to add an amplifier is to be sure it is MoCA compatible. If you go that route, I'd suggest replacing the 6-port splitter with an amplifier to get the most benefit.


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## Pxhoynak (Sep 10, 2015)

I went into the Verizon box outside the house and saw a note on the inside that said there was a 6 port splitter on the far end of the crawl space which is wierd. I have 7 of the 8 ports used on the splitter in the front crawl space so there is no need for another one.


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## Pxhoynak (Sep 10, 2015)

TNT is still out in HD but the SD is working. Would a signal issue do that also?


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

Pxhoynak said:


> TNT is still out in HD but the SD is working. Would a signal issue do that also?


What you need to do is tune to some channels that are not working. Then go to the TiVo DVR diagnostics in the systems info section of the menu and then look for the tuner and see what frequency the channel is being broadcast on. If you are finding channels that do not work are in a specific frequency spectrum then you have signal issues in your home.

As I stated before get rid of any satellite TV splitters as they are designed to operate a different frequencies. Satellite TV installers are just a bunch of butchers as they will hack any wiring that previously existed so they can lower their install costs.

If you can not figure this out on your own you maybe best to hire someone to fix it for you. See what Verizon would charge to fix it or better yet if you rent one of their STBs they may fix it for free. Once it is working then you can return the box and just have the TiVo.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

Pxhoynak said:


> Well I called Tivo and the box is fine... they told me to call Verizon and tell them that my signal strength is only 66 and I need a min of 80 and my db was 25 and I need a min of 29 and a max of 35. So I called Verizon and the tech support agent refused to help... Said that Fios is not made to support Tivo and that they won't help. If I had them come out it would be $95 an hour to replace lines. I am so livid right now.... Tito did suggest a signal booster on the coax just before it goes into the box and I explained that to Verizon and they kept telling me it was a range extender for my internet router.... I guess Comcast is my only choice?


The information TiVo gave you is not correct. A SNR of 29dBmV is to low and is on the verge of falling off the digital cliff. You need to have a SNR of 35dBmV or higher. The higher the number the cleaner the signal. You also need a power reading of 85 or higher. If you are pegged at 100 then you may have to much power.
You can find all this info in the TiVo DVR diagnostics menu. Tune to channels that are giving you issues and note the frequency the channel is on, the power level, the SNR level, and see if there is corrected and uncorrected errors. If the channels that are giving you a problem are in a specific signal range then you have an issue with splitters, F connectors, or the coaxial cable.
If Verizon refuses to help you then try Comcast. You give the money to those who will help and screw those who don't.
Verizon is getting out of the landline business anyway and are selling off their landline assets, including Fios. This is something you will have to deal with in the future if you decide to use Fios now.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Jed1 said:


> ....... As I stated before get rid of any satellite TV splitters as they are designed to operate a different frequencies. ....


As stated before, that's not true. Look at the picture attached. It goes from 2-2,150MHz



HarperVision said:


> Not true, they still cover the lower ranges to allow their deca signals to pass through, just as cable ones go higher to allow moca to pass.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

You know those aren't the only multiswitches DirecTV used correct? If the system was installed prior to DECA, they don't go down into the single digits.

Look up the Eagle Aspen multiswitches. Those were what I had installed back when I had DirecTV which I had to remove when they switched me to FiOS.


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## Pxhoynak (Sep 10, 2015)

There are a lot of frequency's that the missing channels are on...

717000khz
855000khz
735000khz
747000khz
711000khz

I stopped after that... 

When I went in the second crawl space I found a splitter that was still connected to the directtv equipment. I am not sure what it is but it was hooked to the old dish. All Verizon did was tie into that when they installed Fios. I used the other Verizon splitter they left me but I still don't know what the heck they did... We have 6 TV's and the modem that use Coax.... There are 2 lines coming from the Verizon box on the side of the house... I think... But only one of them do anything... I have the one that worked hooked to a 6 Port Moca splitter and on the other side of the crawl space there I used the 8 port Moca splitter... not sure what they did. I am about to chat with Verizon and see if they will help... if not I am at a loss..... any other ideas?

thanks


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

innocentfreak said:


> You know those aren't the only multiswitches DirecTV used correct? If the system was installed prior to DECA, they don't go down into the single digits. Look up the Eagle Aspen multiswitches. Those were what I had installed back when I had DirecTV which I had to remove when they switched me to FiOS.


My old DirecTV gear still passed lower freqs to accommodate the diplexed cable/OTA they offered.

I'm sure there are very old legacy systems that only had the higher sat freqs so sure in that case replace them. I'd think that users who are here and are more tech savvy wouldn't have such old systems though.

Oh, and that picture isn't a Multiswitch, it's a SWiM capable splitter.


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## Pxhoynak (Sep 10, 2015)

Well I did a chat with Verizon and told them what channels were missing.. long list... with the frequencies. The rep did not think it was a signall issue...of course but they were at least willing to try... sent some commands to the cablecard, reset the modem, etc. Of course it didn't work.. so now they are sending a new cablecard so I guess I need to play their game. I did tell him about the 2 reps that were total jerks and they said it would be noted... I am not hopeful they will step up when the new card does not work either. I told them that if this is not fixed I would need to go to Comcast... I don't want to switch but on one hand the internet would be twice as fast as I have now... 75 versus 150... I know they have a cap but they swear I would never reach it... I would love to get the Tivo that uses an HD antenna and dump cable and use Hulu, etc until Apple comes out with a service but my mother in law needs her channels so that is not an option yet. I will keep everyone updated...

Thanks again for all of the help... It was helpful since I was able to at least get things working somewhat.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

Pxhoynak said:


> There are a lot of frequency's that the missing channels are on...
> 
> 717000khz
> 855000khz
> ...


With splitters for satellite TV the frequency range for the non working channels is where the block is for MoCA. You need to get that splitter out of the loop completely.

If there is two coaxial wires leaving the ONT then send one to your modem and the other to a splitter that was provided by Verizon. All your TV feeds should go to that one splitter.
If there is one feed leaving the ONT then you would send that to a two way splitter and then send one leg to the modem and then the other leg to the Verizon six way split.

I am assuming that there was a Fios install and then there was a change to Direct TV. It was the lazy ass Direct TV installer that hacked the Fios install as those installers get paid by the job.
You maybe able to undo the Direct TV mess and restore it back to the way when Verizon installed it.

Most likely the Verizon guy just gave you a pile of BS as you are not renting none of their TV equipment so they are literally blowing you off.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

HarperVision said:


> As stated before, that's not true. Look at the picture attached. It goes from 2-2,150MHz


 There is a valid reason why it is marked for Direct TV. The satellite companies use a large portion of the cable TV spectrum for MoCA.

There is other specifications on how the splitter works internally that you are not taking into consideration.

The frequencies the OP just listed as non working channels is in the range of the MoCA block for satellite TV.
I know I have explained this before in a MoCA related thread.


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## Teeps (Aug 16, 2001)

Pxhoynak,
You're into this too deep... 
Humor me; get a new coax cable.
Connect it to the verizon box out side your house and the tivo.
Doing so will eliminate all splitters, suspect wiring, connections, terminations, etc. and see what happens.
You can get a 100ft RG6 cable for less than 20 bucks.


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## Pxhoynak (Sep 10, 2015)

So to so do this would it be the one cable that comes out of the Fios box. Just open up the box and unscrew the cable and screw into that?


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Jed1 said:


> With splitters for satellite TV the frequency range for the non working channels is where the block is for MoCA. You need to get that splitter out of the loop completely. If there is two coaxial wires leaving the ONT then send one to your modem and the other to a splitter that was provided by Verizon. All your TV feeds should go to that one splitter. If there is one feed leaving the ONT then you would send that to a two way splitter and then send one leg to the modem and then the other leg to the Verizon six way split. I am assuming that there was a Fios install and then there was a change to Direct TV. It was the lazy ass Direct TV installer that hacked the Fios install as those installers get paid by the job. You maybe able to undo the Direct TV mess and restore it back to the way when Verizon installed it. Most likely the Verizon guy just gave you a pile of BS as you are not renting none of their TV equipment so they are literally blowing you off.





Jed1 said:


> There is a valid reason why it is marked for Direct TV. The satellite companies use a large portion of the cable TV spectrum for MoCA. There is other specifications on how the splitter works internally that you are not taking into consideration. The frequencies the OP just listed as non working channels is in the range of the MoCA block for satellite TV. I know I have explained this before in a MoCA related thread.


I really think you're confusing their diplexers (and maybe their multiswitches) and their plain green label SWiM splitters. Those splitters I showed a picture of are full bandpass range splitters from 2MHz through 2.15GHz, period! I currently have my ENTIRE HOUSE wired with these splitters in both the 2 and 4 port varieties and have had absolutely no issues whatsoever with my Oceanic Time Warner Cable signals going through them.

The "moca bands" you keep referring to are there for their deca(basically DirecTV's moca version)/whole home signals and they're in the 475-625 MHz range. These signals are in the same frequency bands as cable/OTA, which is exactly what is allowing it to work like I'm trying to say, which is what you're saying is preventing it from working for some unknown reason???

The ONLY reason these are used in DTV SWiM installs and considered "DirecTV Approved" is because they go below the normal 5MHz low end signal to account for the 2.3MHz fsk control signals from the IRDs, and they go above the cable/OTA/moca freqs to account for the higher satellite IF freqs.

These splitter pass through ALL signals from 2-2150MHz which includes, in a nutshell:

DTV - fsk IRD Control - 2.3MHz
Cable/OTA - ~40-864MHz (or higher in certain systems)
DTV - whole home/deca - 475-625MHz
DTV - Satellite IF IRD/receiver tuner signals. - ~974-1790MHz

There are NO filters blocking ANY of these frequency bands in the splitters I mentioned. (See attached)

Those frequencies you mentioned aren't in the band you're saying they are either, see above.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

P.S. - unless what you're saying is that they have a filter between the 625-974MHz band between deca and the receiver signals to block those freqs for some purpose like isolation? If so, that's the first I've heard that and it's not reflected in that Holland spec sheet I attached. Please provide links or references. I have no problem being wrong, if I am. Thanks!


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

HarperVision said:


> P.S. - unless what you're saying is that they have a filter between the 625-974MHz band between deca and the receiver signals to block those freqs for some purpose like isolation? If so, that's the first I've heard that and it's not reflected in that Holland spec sheet I attached. Please provide links or references. I have no problem being wrong, if I am. Thanks!


It sounds like Jed is talking about something like a diplexer which tries to separate the OTA frequencies from the Satellite frequencies. It's not clear to me either why any filtering would be added when the goal is pass both Moca+Satellite frequencies through the switch to each DVR.

But of course anything could potentially be busted or damaged, and by all means, eliminating as much stuff as possible between the ONT and the Roamio should be done as a first step in troubleshooting.


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## Teeps (Aug 16, 2001)

Pxhoynak said:


> So to so do this would it be the one cable that comes out of the Fios box. Just open up the box and unscrew the cable and screw into that?


Yes.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Pxhoynak said:


> There are a lot of frequency's that the missing channels are on...
> 
> 717000khz
> 855000khz
> ...


Has the ONT been checked? In 2011/2012 I had an issue where a bunch of channels went out. The frequencies were all over the place. But it turned out that my ONT was going bad and they needed to replace it. Once I had a new ONT everything was fine.

I've had several ONTs over the years. Everyone has put out a super hot signal. They always had an eight port splitter first. Then I could split it several more times and the signal would still be hot.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

HarperVision said:


> P.S. - unless what you're saying is that they have a filter between the 625-974MHz band between deca and the receiver signals to block those freqs for some purpose like isolation? If so, that's the first I've heard that and it's not reflected in that Holland spec sheet I attached. Please provide links or references. I have no problem being wrong, if I am. Thanks!


No it is none of what is suggested here. Satellite TV operates in the 1Ghz to 3Ghz range. Cable TV operates in the 5Mhz to 1000Mhz range. The problem with any signal is it wants to get reflected back into the feed and the splitters are designed to attenuate that signal so it does not interfere with the incoming signal.

Here is some tutorials explaining this.
Passive troubleshooting:




Return Loss:




Isolation:




Insertion Loss:





I just ran into this issue with my friend on Friday evening. He added another TV to his bar and he bought a similar splitter because it was "beefier" so he believed it would be better.
There is a 4 way split in the basement and the one TV in the bar comes right off of that splitter. Another leg off of that splitter then feeds the other TV in the bar but the feed is split to also feed the TV in the restaurant. When he added the other TV using this splitter he had no signal on the new TV and marginal signal on the other TV.
I tuned all the TVs to the same channel and I checked the TV feed directly off the feed in the basement and I got 6dBmV of strength and a SNR of 37dBmV. The other TV had a signal level of -15dBmV and a SNR of 30dBmV. 
With the splitter he bought I should have seen a power level of -2dBmV and an SNR of 37dBmV. I replaced the splitter with a Ideal unbalanced 3 way split and the numbers changed to -2dBmV on the power level and an SNR of 37dBmV.
The satellite TV splitter was causing an additional power loss of -13dBmV for a total loss of -21dBmV and also dropped the SNR to 30dBmV from 37dBmV.


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

Jed1 said:


> The satellite TV splitter was causing an additional power loss of -13dBmV for a total loss of -21dBmV and also dropped the SNR to 30dBmV from 37dBmV.


Do you know what model number the splitter was or did you take a picture?

Because unless it's defective, there's no reason a splitter that's stamped as being able to pass a certain range wouldn't pass that range.

For instance, here's a splitter that would only handle satellite, but it's clearly marked to show that it can't handle frequencies below 950 Mhz (without significant attenuation):


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

jonw747 said:


> Do you know what model number the splitter was or did you take a picture?
> 
> Because unless it's defective, there's no reason a splitter that's stamped as being able to pass a certain range wouldn't pass that range.
> 
> For instance, here's a splitter that would only handle satellite, but it's clearly marked to show that it can't handle frequencies below 950 Mhz (without significant attenuation):


He bought it at Lowes or Home Depot. I have seen this problem about three times already with these wide range splitters.


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

Jed1 said:


> He bought it at Lowes or Home Depot. I have seen this problem about three times already with these wide range splitters.


That sounds auspicious right there.

For instance, I found a "Zinc 4-Way" splitter at Lowes.com that mentions support for Satellite & Digital TV and an acceptable range of 5MHz to 2.3GHz (item # 251906) ... sounds fine so far, but then I looked at the two reviews:

One reviewer said this:

"I have never known these things to work once you unplug them. I have about 100 different styles that don't work now but they did at one time. So, as long as you don't unplug the coax it works great."

And the other reviewer said this:

"The signal loss using this splitter was great than using multiple layers of other types of splitters. I had to use a two way splitter with each of those have a three-way splitter of of them. This setup still has less signal loss than the direct connection from this product. I do not recommend this...it is a waste of money"

So, that may not be the same model, but maybe you just keep running in to poorly made splitters? For instance, the first reviewer's complaint sounds like the product has a problem with corrosion or oxidation. The parts which are making contact may remain fine because air can't get in, but once the wires are removed, and re-connected, all bets are off.

Certainly it's never a bad idea to replace splitters and re-terminate cable runs when reworking an install. When I re-purposed my old RG6 home-run for use with my new TiVo, I didn't want to re-terminate the cables, but I did squirt the connectors with some DeOxIt just in case some corrosion had built-up.


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## Pxhoynak (Sep 10, 2015)

What do I do if the signal is still not that when I connect the TiVo direct to the ONT? Would that mean a defective TiVo? If so how do I get a replacement? Thru Tivo or Best Buy? I have only had it a little over a week. 

Thanks


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

Pxhoynak said:


> What do I do if the signal is still not that when I connect the TiVo direct to the ONT? Would that mean a defective TiVo? If so how do I get a replacement? Thru Tivo or Best Buy? I have only had it a little over a week.
> 
> Thanks


Unless you left something important out, you already mentioned that you were running Quantum DVRs and they were working well. I can tell you for a fact that my FIOS DVR (7232) handled the same signal better than my TiVo Roamio and it was a very strong signal according to its own diagnostics.

So, yes, this is key. If you can't get a strong signal straight from the ONT, then it points very much at a defective TiVo. At first blush it might not make much sense how the TiVo could be at fault, rather than say the Cablecard, but far stranger things have happened.

Cleaning up your wiring is not a wasted effort, but it's not necessarily the root of your problem. But if the TiVo works great when you wire it straight to the ONT, then the wiring becomes the primary suspect.

Just keep in mind that just because you've had a bad experience with Verizon, that they're not necessarily wrong. The problem may very well be a bad TiVo.


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## Pxhoynak (Sep 10, 2015)

Well, I am the coax direct and all for the channels appeared! So I went into the crawl space and found the correct wire from the other spitter and tried to get it to the other side... not long enough so I used a coupler and got it across. At first the signal was not good (was 94#) so I used a 2 port Verizon splitter before the 6 port and it worked... But then I noticed that my internet speeds were bad...real bad. I had put the modem after the first split so I went back down and used another splitter I bought and rearranged the cables on the 6 port and everything is working. I get an 82% signal and all channels. 

So I can return the new cablecard Verizon sent me... didn't even try it. I just cancelled all of my set top boxes and DVR's and will drop $84 off my monthly bill... Of course all of the Tivo equipment had a cost but in 10-11 months I will be even and start to save money. 

Thanks for everyones help, I learned a lot in the process and at least I know where all of the coax in the crawl spaces go... I can get rid of the other splitter all together but I think only our bedroom TV is on it and everything is working so for now I won't mess with it.


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## Teeps (Aug 16, 2001)

Pxhoynak said:


> Well, I am the coax direct and all for the channels appeared! So I went into the crawl space and found the correct wire from the other spitter and tried to get it to the other side... not long enough so I used a coupler and got it across. At first the signal was not good (was 94#) so I used a 2 port Verizon splitter before the 6 port and it worked... But then I noticed that my internet speeds were bad...real bad. I had put the modem after the first split so I went back down and used another splitter I bought and rearranged the cables on the 6 port and everything is working. I get an 82% signal and all channels.
> 
> So I can return the new cablecard Verizon sent me... didn't even try it. I just cancelled all of my set top boxes and DVR's and will drop $84 off my monthly bill... Of course all of the Tivo equipment had a cost but in 10-11 months I will be even and start to save money.
> 
> Thanks for everyones help, I learned a lot in the process and at least I know where all of the coax in the crawl spaces go... I can get rid of the other splitter all together but I think only our bedroom TV is on it and everything is working so for now I won't mess with it.


Congrats on your success!
I knew you could figure it out...
Persistence pays off again, and now you know more about your system than anyone else. Especially verizon techs!


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