# Heroes 12/4/2006 (S01E11) "Fallout"



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Yep, it was a feedback loop.


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

Who else jumped when Peter dreamed of Sylar?


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

No more Pixie.


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

We have to wait until _January 22_ for new episodes? Oy vay!

They've run 11 episodes so far. Usual season order is for 22. That leaves 11 episodes between Jan. 22 and the end of May sweeps. So we'll probably get 5 episodes in Jan-Feb (or Feb-Mar) and 6 more in Apr-May.


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## alansh (Jan 3, 2003)

"Fallout" is Chapter 11, so they have another 11 episodes. (NBC did order 22.)

Just started airing here in the Mountain timezone.


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## Marc (Jun 26, 1999)

Change history?

You're gonna die!


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## thehepcat (Jan 9, 2002)

I am super confused. I feel like I missed an episode. Was there an episode where there showed what happened at the high school? I watched 6 Months Earlier just before tonights, but it's like it skipped ahead.

Did I miss something or was that just how it was?


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

You must've missed Episode 9.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

So how come Sylar could attack her but not Claire's dad? Was it because of the mind meld guy? Why would her father ever not let mind meld guy be close enough to Sylar to keep him under control. 

Kind of a blah episode for a fall finale but. I hope we have seen the end of Jessica storyline.


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

I'm glad Isaac figured out he didn't need to be high to paint the future.

Interesting how Niki turned herself in to save DL and Micah from Jessica.

Ando's expression when Isaac's eyes changed was hilarious!

The feedback was insanely funny. Poor Peter had way too much hero power to cope with.

The Hatian can TALK, oh my gawd and so glad to see he's not under some HRG spell. And by the HRG is freaking me out. Did he think Claire wasn't going to figure it already, how freaked out she is, understandably.

Good episode, but *cry* *cry* *cry* I can't believe we have to wait until Jan 22. *pout*


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

Oh ya and I jumped a freaking foot when Silar popped in to Peters dream, sheesh that was startling!!


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

WTF?


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## tem (Oct 6, 2003)

God, I hate all the f-ing "Fall Finales". Who's responsible for this BS ?


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## xuxa (Oct 8, 2001)

tem said:


> God, I hate all the f-ing "Fall Finales". Who's responsible for this BS ?


Every one who complained about too many reruns.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

NOOOOOOOOOO, can't....wait.....until.....January..... uggggggg.

And there may be more then 11 episodes left. They have a full 22 episode order but I read somewhere, I think on Zap2It that NBC was negotiating for them to make an extra 3 or 4. Probably because it's their only hit show, why not?

Man this show is so good. My fav now, even over BSG.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I was wondering why Peter was coughing and in so much pain? Was this because he didn't have Claires powers anymore? Did any other powers he absorbed have a holdover hangover sort of thing? 

I loved the feedback on the mind reading between Peter and Matt, but it was predicted by others on this board. Predictable you might say. 

Really loved Hiro and Andos watching Isaac. Great stuff there!!!

Hey, if Zacks mind is wiped, maybe he won't remember that he is gay....not that there is anything wrong with that.

And I chuckled when the Haitian said "and your mother, many times" So Thats what her problem was!


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Sylar escaped because Eden must have deactivated the power vacuum thinking she could persuade him to kill himself. It appears that Sylar is borg-like in that he can somehow stop you from using your powers on him after he's seen them once or twice. So maybe he doesn't need brains after all.

Similarly, peter seems able to predict the future now without being in immediate contact. I think once he's in near proximity he has the powers permanently. This could also explain how he healed his foot in the cheerleader world saving escapade. It looks like more than ever, peter and sylar are destined to face off.

How come everyone knew haitian guy was haitian if he can't talk anyway? Strange.

This was a fantastic episode. I always said to myself, if I could travel in time I'd travel back to prehistory and hone my skills. I think Hiro's going to do just that. I love his bug comment... he knew he was going back really far in time and stomping a bug could wipe out humanity before it exists.

Why did it have to be eden? They should have killed off that indian kid who could project himself into dreams.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Ah, Eden. We hardly knew ye. 


TAsunder said:


> How come everyone knew haitian guy was haitian if he can't talk anyway? Strange.


I believe his official cast name is something like Haitian Guy.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

"I wish Destiny would lose our number."


Eden had the power of suggestion but feel victim to the power of stupid.


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## DMHinCO (Dec 14, 2000)

Three very selfless folks in the group of heroes. Eden offs herself to prevent the power of suggestion going to Sylar. Peter jumps off a building to his near certain death (ep. 9). Niki turns herself in to be arrested to avoid hurting her kid.

And perhaps Haitian guy's betrayal of HRG is another heroic act, though I was focusing on the heroic acts that cause immediate pain to them.

Was Peter near Hero to jump himself to the future or was he near Isaac to be able to envision the future? What was happening there?

Presumably, Sylar gets radioactive man's powers and maybe the persuasive powers of Eden (a little DNA splatter might be all he needs). He convinces Peter (empathetic with explosive power) to go to downtown and explode himself? Is that what the future holds?


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## PKurmas (Apr 24, 2001)

1) Poor Zach... regardless of what the poll says, he's forgotten a bunch of good stuff.
2) So was it really Peter at the end, or Peter seeing himself in somebody else's position?

Edit: I didn't smeek! It just takes time to post & I said the some of the same things!


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## thehepcat (Jan 9, 2002)

Graymalkin said:


> You must've missed Episode 9.


Oy. Heroes records on my wife's TiVo. She isn't so good about checking for things getting deleted.

Oh well. I'm downloading the torrent now. Thanks!


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> Sylar escaped because Eden must have deactivated the power vacuum thinking she could persuade him to kill himself. It appears that Sylar is borg-like in that he can somehow stop you from using your powers on him after he's seen them once or twice. So maybe he doesn't need brains after all.


I wouldn't jump to any conclusions yet. The Sylar-Eden gunshot was as vague as the Niki-D.L. gunshot a couple of episodes before. They could easily have it turn out that Sylar was killed or that one or the other was seriously wounded but not killed.



> Similarly, peter seems able to predict the future now without being in immediate contact.


I don't think that's what's going on. Isaac can _paint_ the future; he doesn't have "visions" in the traditional sense. I'm not even sure it was a clairvoyant vision he had. One idea I had is that he might have somehow been in empathic contact with Sprague, who by this time might be fantasizing about nuking NYC for some as-yet-unknown reason. Remember Peter's dream concerning the dying Mr. Devereaux? This hypothesis is the same basic idea; the vision/dream shouldn't be interpreted literally.



> I think once he's in near proximity he has the powers permanently. This could also explain how he healed his foot in the cheerleader world saving escapade.


There have been plenty of instances in which Peter's been able to retain another person's powers for a period of time (a few hours or perhaps even days), but it always wears off eventually. He tried flying for quite a while at the beginning of episode (I think) 3, for instance, but was unable to do so.



> I love his bug comment... he knew he was going back really far in time and stomping a bug could wipe out humanity before it exists.


This was actually a reference to a famous SF short story in which a time traveller steps on a bug and returns to the future to find that everything's changed. I don't recall the story's title or author, though. Of course, we also don't know that Hiro went back in time; it's conceivable that the T-Rex was brought forward in time.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

srs5694 said:


> This was actually a reference to a famous SF short story in which a time traveller steps on a bug and returns to the future to find that everything's changed. I don't recall the story's title or author, though.


Ray Bradbury, "A Sound of Thunder."

OK, I'm as big a geek as Hiro...


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

A thought on Peter's coughing and collapse: HRG commented to Sylar that Sylar is in pretty bad shape because of all the genetic changes he's made to himself. If Peter's power works in a similar way, by making (even temporary) genetic changes, then having come into contact with so many people with so many different powers in quick succession (Claire, Nathan, and Matt, at least) could be wreaking havoc on his physiology. If so, this puts a new twist on all the questions and speculation that's been posted here about what would happen if and when Peter comes into simultaneous contact with many people with powers: He might just collapse and die!


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

srs5694 said:


> This was actually a reference to a famous SF short story in which a time traveller steps on a bug and returns to the future to find that everything's changed. I don't recall the story's title or author, though. Of course, we also don't know that Hiro went back in time; it's conceivable that the T-Rex was brought forward in time.


The story was "Sound of Thunder" by Ray Bradbury. It is a classic and is parodied in a Simpsons episode with Homer stepping on bugs and finding things changed. "Bugs go squish".

The comment from Hiro was on par with the "Great Scott" comment when he was speaking to himself. Another time travel story reference - Back to the future.

edit- didn't mean to smeek, I was typing slower than you.....


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> How come everyone knew haitian guy was haitian if he can't talk anyway? Strange.


Maybe because they found him in Haiti? 

After Claire found out that Zach got mind-wiped, I thought that she would have put 2 and 2 together and know it was her father, but I suppose my perceptions were colored by knowing the things I know.

When Eden bought it (apparently) a certain "Heathers" quote came to mind.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> ...peter seems able to predict the future now without being in immediate contact. I think once he's in near proximity he has the powers permanently. This could also explain how he healed his foot in the cheerleader world saving escapade...


I don't think Peter has to stay with the other person to have their power. Seems it stays with him for a while.

The fact his foot was still "fixable" a few minutes after Claire left sort of proves that.

I'm still wondering tho', what's with the future-dreaming stuff. What's he showing? A power of his own?

I'd like to know what was with the coughing, too.


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## Chandler Mike (Mar 29, 2002)

Sylar can manipulate metal or control it, as the gun he had the mind-reader point at himself earlier.

Eden brought that gun inside, which gave Sylar the chance...he basically pulled her hand/gun through the glass wall, at least, that's how I saw it.

Of course, he wasn't happy when she blew her brains out...you could see his face chance to "oh no"...he probably can't harvest her power now.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

Chandler Mike said:


> Sylar can manipulate metal or control it, as the gun he had the mind-reader point at himself earlier....


No, Sylar is telekinetic. He stole that from the first guy he killed, in his own shop.

He he then used that power in moving a glass when he showed his power to Mohinder's father.

Has nothing to do with metal.

It has to do with ANYTHING.

Oh, and it wasn't Matt's gun he controlled several weeks ago. It was the gun of the female FBI agent Matt's working with.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

He broke the glass with his fist or mind powers. He's got telekenesis, much more powerful than mere metal control.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> He broke the glass with his fist or mind powers. He's got telekenesis, much more powerful than mere metal control.


And I still want to know why in the world he hadn't escaped already if the Haitian wasn't there any more.

He shouldn't have had to wait for Eden to get there with a gun.

With all he can do, he'd should have been out of there long before Eden showed up, once the big guy wasn't around.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> He broke the glass with his fist or mind powers. He's got telekenesis, much more powerful than mere metal control.


He's got the power to kill a yak from 200 yards away.... WITH MIND BULLETS!


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## DMHinCO (Dec 14, 2000)

So the Haitian disobeying HRG's order to wipe Claire's memory implies Daddy is a bad guy again, doesn't it?

Who are the bad guys?

Are Sylar, Niki's alter ego and the radioactive guy the only other bad guys? Nathan?


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

betts4 said:


> And I chuckled when the Haitian said "and your mother, many times" So Thats what her problem was!


Reminded me of MIB with Will Smith complaining about the "Flashy Thingy" that they used to wipe memories.


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

I was impressed to see that this episode was directed by famed Feature Film Director John Badham ("Wargames," "Blue Thunder.")

I made the mistake of reading the first few posts to this thread before I watched the episode. I'm still not understanding "feedback loop." Can someone explain that to me?

I liked the scene were Peter meets Matt the cop. "Is he reading my mind?" "Can he hear my thoughts??" I thought that it was handled quite well...it was cool and humorous at the same time. 

Finally we get to see Clea DuVall (*****y FBI lady) smile in this episode!!!


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## jpwoof (May 19, 2004)

What was the deal again with the radiation guy in the earlier episode who was isolated by FBI? I think Peter had a close encounter with him and he wasnt able to control it.... but Nathan will save everyone's lives by flying him out of earth to go boom!!! End of story?


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

So many directions this show could go!


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## jpwoof (May 19, 2004)

What symbolism is being depicted by the paintaing where Hero was holding a katana against the large dragon?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

atrac said:


> I made the mistake of reading the first few posts to this thread before I watched the episode. I'm still not understanding "feedback loop." Can someone explain that to me?
> 
> I liked the scene were Peter meets Matt the cop. "Is he reading my mind?" "Can he hear my thoughts??" I thought that it was handled quite well...it was cool and humorous at the same time.
> 
> Finally we get to see Clea DuVall (*****y FBI lady) smile in this episode!!!


Ever spoken into a microphone that was near the speaker the amplified sound was coming from... or even just held the microphone near it?

If you have 2 mindreaders reading each others mind, A hearbs B hear A hearing B hearing A hearing B, et. al.

Feedback loop... at least till they worked out a way to not be listening to each other simultaneously or at least keep wjhat they hear from being a surface thought that could be read back.


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

dswallow said:


> Ever spoken into a microphone that was near the speaker the amplified sound was coming from... or even just held the microphone near it?
> 
> If you have 2 mindreaders reading each others mind, A hearbs B hear A hearing B hearing A hearing B, et. al.
> 
> Feedback loop... at least till they worked out a way to not be listening to each other simultaneously or at least keep wjhat they hear from being a surface thought that could be read back.


Wow, I was thinking it had something to do with the ending and time travel. I was over thinking it! Little did I know it was exactly what I commented on in the next paragraph of my post! D'oh!

Thanks.


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## jpwoof (May 19, 2004)

what if Hiro went back to prehistoric times by mistake?  or perhaps he's trying to stop the origin of the DNA?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

jpwoof said:


> What symbolism is being depicted by the paintaing where Hero was holding a katana against the large dragon?


Symbolism? Issac's paintings aren't metaphors, they're always quite literal.

That wasn't a dragon, it was a dinosaur. Presumably, sometime after Hiro gets his sword, he jumps back to the dinosaur era and does battle with a T-rex or something.



jpwoof said:


> or perhaps he's trying to stop the origin of the DNA?


Wasn't that the plot of the ST:TNG finale?


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## lawilson2 (Oct 6, 2005)

I thought it was hilarious when Isaac got off the bus and Hiro did the Vulcan sign with his hand...classic!


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

DMHinCO said:


> Eden offs herself to prevent the power of suggestion going to Sylar.


You misinterpreted that scene badly. She didn't off herself intentionally - he used his power against her.

EDIT: I stand corrected! I was the one who misinterpreted that scene badly.  Looking at it again I see Sylar's expression of surprise before she shoots herself.

Very good episode. Can't wait to find out about Hiro & the Dragon (well dinosaur, but it was a nice homage to dragonslayer myths ).


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## bpurcell (Mar 16, 2005)

busyba said:


> That wasn't a dragon, it was a dinosaur. Presumably, sometime after Hiro gets his sword, he jumps back to the dinosaur era and does battle with a T-rex or something.


So is LucasArts working with NBC to get a cool CGI episode of Hiro fighting the dinosaur? That would be WAY cool, but also probably WAY out of the budget.


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## lodica1967 (Aug 5, 2003)

MickeS said:


> You misinterpreted that scene badly. She didn't off herself intentionally - he used his power against her.
> 
> Very good episode. Can't wait to find out about Hiro & the Dragon (well dinosaur, but it was a nice homage to dragonslayer myths ).


I took it that she sacraficed herself so he wouldn't get her power. Why would he want her to damage her brain when he needs it?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

MickeS said:


> You misinterpreted that scene badly. She didn't off herself intentionally - he used his power against her.


I thought so at first too, but then I went back and as the gun was turning towards Eden, Sylar definitely had a "D'OH!" look on his face, like he realized that she was about to deny him her power.


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

Geez, I'm the only person who saw a Japanese guy holding a sword up to a big lizard who thought Godzilla?

When Peter was coughing while talking to Claire I was sure he'd touch her arm and get another little dose of healing power. He was looking like the previous hit had warn off.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Ray Bradbury, "A Sound of Thunder."
> 
> OK, I'm as big a geek as Hiro...


Fredric Brown wrote a similar story although the title escapes me at the moment,

and.......

 
Oh my God! They killed Eden!
You bastards!


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

Does FBI lady have the ability to see the future? Does Mr. Bennet? Who has Peter been around that he'd have been able to copy that from?

Why did both Peter and Matt have headaches?

*AND WHAT IS IT WITH THAT COUGH?!? (They did that for a reason.)*


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

My take on how Sylar escaped the room is that he needed some time to figure out the structure of the glass in order to shatter it.

I had come to the conclusion in the middle of the episode that Sylar stole the nuclear man's powers, and couldn't control them, thus the big bomb going off in NYC, but it could be Peter too.

And as for this "fall finale" thing, there are hardly ever any new episodes of TV shows from the beginning of December to the beginning of January. That's how it's always been.

There's just so many serialized shows on TV now, that they hype this "fall finale" junk.

That a network show won't show an original for a 4-6 week period at this time of the year is nothing new.

-smak-


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## hughmcjr (Nov 27, 2006)

gastrof said:


> No, Sylar is telekinetic. He stole that from the first guy he killed, in his own shop.
> 
> He he then used that power in moving a glass when he showed his power to Mohinder's father.
> 
> ...


If he can move ANYTHING, then why couldn't he move people or the clothes they are wearing which would then move them? Unless we are supposed to allow for contradiction much like time travel.


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## hughmcjr (Nov 27, 2006)

JYoung said:


> Fredric Brown wrote a similar story although the title escapes me at the moment,
> 
> and.......
> 
> ...


Did they? With Hiro's ability maybe they have killed no one and none of it ever happened.  And how anti climatic that would be.


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## ccooperev (Apr 24, 2001)

bpurcell said:


> So is LucasArts working with NBC to get a cool CGI episode of Hiro fighting the dinosaur? That would be WAY cool, but also probably WAY out of the budget.


Well, the actor who plays Hiro Nakamura - Masi Oka is in real life a CGI programmer for Industrial Light and Magic so hmmmm..........


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## mmilton80 (Jul 28, 2005)

I can't believe they killed Sprite. She was, by far, the hottest non-cheerleadered hero. I hope that a new hero can bring people back to life...and also grow her hair out. That would be...super.

I am getting a bit sick of the Jessica-son-other guy's story line. While they did cross with other heroes, they seem to be off in another world with an unconnected, annoying story. Hopefully with Jessica's good half turning herself into the police, she will soon cease to exist (from the show). 

Burn in Hell Heroes, for killing Eden!


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

mmilton80 said:


> I am getting a bit sick of the Jessica-son-other guy's story line. While they did cross with other heroes, they seem to be off in another world with an unconnected, annoying story. Hopefully with Jessica's good half turning herself into the police, she will soon cease to exist (from the show).


I was hoping for at least a bit more of the tie-in. So far, it's only the Linderman (sp?) connection.


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

Along with the cough, I was thinking Peter looked very sickly.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> He broke the glass with his fist or mind powers. He's got telekenesis, much more powerful than mere metal control.


Actually he 'grabbed' Eden and pulled her through the glass causing *her* to break it. Still telekenesis, though.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

srs5694 said:


> I wouldn't jump to any conclusions yet. The Sylar-Eden gunshot was as vague as the Niki-D.L. gunshot a couple of episodes before. They could easily have it turn out that Sylar was killed or that one or the other was seriously wounded but not killed.


I think it was made obvious that Eden is is now dead or at least mortally wounded. They specifically showed Eden twisting the gun toward her head and then blood spattering and then a look of surprise on Sylar's face. The point the writers were obviously making was that Eden just 'sacrificed' her brain, ruining it for Sylar.


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## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

Looks to me like Peter has a bit of radiation-sickness. Whether he got it when he came near Sylar (was Sylar the one that "busted" Radiation man out of the transportation truck?) or if it's something else, that's my guess.

Especially the dream sequence. Peter is actually the one that destroys NY because he is unable to contain Radiation-Man's power and it destroys him from within (as well as NY). Not sure how or why, but that's what it's made to look like anyway...

I'd like to find out who HRG man answers to. Because clearly he's not the one in charge. Which is why I think Haitian Man wants to prevent Claire's memory wipe...

Also, it'll be interesting to find out who killed Chandra. I don't think it was Sylar... I think it's going to end up being HRG or the organization he works for... Although, I suppose it could be Sylar who became overzealous in showing off his newly acquired power(s) to Chandra and it was an accident.

I'm also not convinced that Eden deactivated anything... Sylar was given enough time in his isolation chamber to "figure out how it works" and then went around whatever barricades and/or safety measures in place. It's really too bad Eden died... she was the best eye candy on the show and a great character... I wanted to see her back with Mohinder...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Mikkel_Knight said:


> I'm also not convinced that Eden deactivated anything... Sylar was given enough time in his isolation chamber to "figure out how it works" and then went around whatever barricades and/or safety measures in place. It's really too bad Eden died... she was the best eye candy on the show and a great character... I wanted to see her back with Mohinder...


Eden HAD to turn off the super-power-turner-offer so she could use her super-power on Sylar. But his super-power-fu was stronger...


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Eden HAD to turn off the super-power-turner-offer so she could use her super-power on Sylar. But his super-power-fu was stronger...


However it happened, it was obvious that if she could affect him, he could do the opposite and would escape. What happened came as no surprise (other than Eden blowing her brains out).


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## kjnorman (Jun 21, 2002)

tem said:


> God, I hate all the f-ing "Fall Finales". Who's responsible for this BS ?


Personally, I like it this way. Gives you two seasons. Now I know I have to wait, but that is better than being disappointed at seeing a new episode only to find a rerun...

Now it gives me time to catch up on other things during the holidays. 

So Peter destroys New York? At least in his dream he does. So is it a dream or is he teleporting into the future from meeting up with Hiro?


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Man this show is so good. My fav now, even over BSG.


Blasphemy! I like Heroes, it's a great primtime-network-TV show for the masses. But it cannot compare to BSG in the writing or acting (which, by the way, had some *really* weak moments last night). Don't get me wrong -- I love the show, but to me it's apples and oranges.


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## slydog75 (Jul 8, 2004)

busyba said:


> When Eden bought it (apparently) a certain "Heathers" quote came to mind.


"I love my dead gay son?" I don't see the connection!


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## slydog75 (Jul 8, 2004)

ccooperev said:


> Well, the actor who plays Hiro Nakamura - Masi Oka is in real life a CGI programmer for Industrial Light and Magic so hmmmm..........


Yes and, not sure if anyone has mentioned this previously, but Kendo (Japenese Fencing) is one of his hobbies. Should make for some nice sword fights!


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## MasterCephus (Jan 3, 2005)

I took Syler doing what he did when he did it like this:

He could have done what he did at anytime (minus the Haitian). He liked HRG watching over him because it made him feel special and he likes being special. I think he even liked the idea that people want to study him. 

Now when Eden walks in and he sees the gun, he realizes that his fun is over and it's time for him to act if he wants to live.


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## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

> I took Syler doing what he did when he did it like this:
> 
> He could have done what he did at anytime (minus the Haitian).


if that were true, I don't think the grey suit guy (reminds me of the "agent" in Half-Life, by the way) would have gone into the chamber with him.



> Eden HAD to turn off the super-power-turner-offer so she could use her super-power on Sylar. But his super-power-fu was stronger...


this is a much more logical (and simpler, thus better) explanation of what happened.


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## hughmcjr (Nov 27, 2006)

chavez said:


> if that were true, I don't think the grey suit guy (reminds me of the "agent" in Half-Life, by the way) would have gone into the chamber with him.
> 
> this is a much more logical (and simpler, thus better) explanation of what happened.


or HRG wanted Sylar to escape and knew Eden wasn't going to listen to him.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Eden HAD to turn off the super-power-turner-offer so she could use her super-power on Sylar. But his super-power-fu was stronger...


+1. This is the winner, in my opinion.


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

kjnorman said:


> Personally, I like it this way. Gives you two seasons. Now I know I have to wait, but that is better than being disappointed at seeing a new episode only to find a rerun...


Me too! :up: :up: :up:

I don't think anyone has mentioned about when DL was shot. The second shot, he was able to "pass" through himself. But not the first one. Is that because he didn't see it coming? Otherwise, a bit of an inconsistency there.

Cheryl


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

jpwoof said:


> What symbolism is being depicted by the painting where Hero was holding a katana against the large dragon?


I realize that thus far all of Isaac's paintings have been literal, but I'm really thinking that he's painting a metaphorical dinosaur here. I don't think we'll be seeing Hiro squaring off against a T-Rex any time in the next few seasons. Not that I'd mind watching that.

One of the overarching themes of the show, as narrated by Mohindar, has been evolution. Could it be that the painting is a representation of a coming battle for evolutionary supremacy, or something along those lines? Just seems more in keeping with the show than a Turok episode would be...


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

speedcouch said:


> Me too! :up: :up: :up:
> 
> I don't think anyone has mentioned about when DL was shot. The second shot, he was able to "pass" through himself. But not the first one. Is that because he didn't see it coming? Otherwise, a bit of an inconsistency there.
> 
> Cheryl


I think that is the presumption.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

teknikel said:


> I think that is the presumption.


Not even a presumption--she specifically said that she had to get him when he didn't see her coming, otherwise she wouldn't be able to touch him. That's why she got the long-range sniper rifle.


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## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

"I really need to find that sword" had me cracking up.

I highly doubt we will be seeing Hiro fight a dinosaur, just because of the effects involved wouldn't be feasible on this show. Also, Isaac paints the future and technically, that would be the past so unless they somehow bring a dinosaur into the future from the past, I agree that it's probably metaphorical or Hiro goofing around at a museum or something like that...


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## xuxa (Oct 8, 2001)

bpurcell said:


> So is LucasArts working with NBC to get a cool CGI episode of Hiro fighting the dinosaur? That would be WAY cool, but also probably WAY out of the budget.


And would only been seen in a videogame.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

GDG76 said:


> Also, Isaac paints the future and technically, that would be the past...


No, it would be in Hiro's future.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

speedcouch said:


> Me too! :up: :up: :up:
> 
> I don't think anyone has mentioned about when DL was shot. The second shot, he was able to "pass" through himself. But not the first one. Is that because he didn't see it coming? Otherwise, a bit of an inconsistency there.
> 
> Cheryl


In Chapter 9, while buying the sniper rifle, Jessica mentioned she needed to shoot him before he saw her. Indicating that he needs to be able to turn his power on when needed, not always on.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Why is everyone so convinced that the dinosaur effects would be too costly for this show? CG isn't that hideously expensive anymore, and this episode was probably a cost-saver for them, with few effects and few locations. I think it's perfectly feasible that they would have the budget necessary for this.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Mikkel_Knight said:


> I'd like to find out who HRG man answers to. Because clearly he's not the one in charge. Which is why I think Haitian Man wants to prevent Claire's memory wipe...
> 
> Also, it'll be interesting to find out who killed Chandra. I don't think it was Sylar... I think it's going to end up being HRG or the organization he works for... Although, I suppose it could be Sylar who became overzealous in showing off his newly acquired power(s) to Chandra and it was an accident.


Maybe HRG answers to Linderman???

Also, there's clues to who killed Chandra on the online comic. We also had Mohinder's dream senquence that showed us how he died. I doubt it was HRG because he doesn't seem strong enough to do what was done to Chandra.

Also, I got the feeling that its not so much the Hacian blocking the powers as it is HRG himself.

Peter's vision at the end was interesting. First I thought he and Claire were being left in the middle of NYC to deal with the whatever was going to happen. Then Claire runs away and Nathan comes out. I figured Nathan must have gone evil or something and the only way they could stop him was by sending Peter. Then Peter blew up and I have no idea what any of it means. I like the theory that Nathan may have been coming to try to save NYC by flying Peter away and making him go boom somewhere else. But I don't think they'd off Peter since he seems like such a main character.

And I guess I didn't pay much attention to the Eden death scene. I thought they left it as a cliffhanger so we would wonder who really died? Sylar, Eden...or maybe even Peter after he passed out. And as for Peter's sickness...I have a feeling it has to do with him being around to many "heroes" all at once.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

I could easily see the show doing a quick T-Rex seen using special effects similar to the creatures in "Surface". Not an all out battle against the T-Rex, but maybe a quick confrontation scene.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

danterner said:


> I realize that thus far all of Isaac's paintings have been literal, but I'm really thinking that he's painting a metaphorical dinosaur here. I don't think we'll be seeing Hiro squaring off against a T-Rex any time in the next few seasons. Not that I'd mind watching that.
> 
> One of the overarching themes of the show, as narrated by Mohindar, has been evolution. Could it be that the painting is a representation of a coming battle for evolutionary supremacy, or something along those lines? Just seems more in keeping with the show than a Turok episode would be...


Maybe we'll eventually meet up with a Hero that has the power to shape shift and Sylar gets that power as well. That also might explain what killed Chandra.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

kjnorman said:


> So Peter destroys New York? At least in his dream he does. So is it a dream or is he teleporting into the future from meeting up with Hiro?


I took the whole sequence as more "vision" than actually him being in the future. Everyone was there, Claire was running through the streets in her cheerleader uniform, New York is evacuated... not that any of that couldn't happen, but the whole scene screamed "dream sequence" to me.

Peter has shown an ability to connect with people through dreams somehow... the hospice patient, his brother... I think Peter has "connected" with Syler in this same way and the dream or vision is Peter seeing through Syler's eyes much like his visions of flying over New York were Peter seeing through his brother's eyes.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I don't think peter was looking through sylar's eyes. The other heroes didn't fear him, they were disappointed in him. Why would claire run up to him if he were sylar?

They don't have to show Hiro fighting a dinosaur and it still would be interesting. He goes through time honing his skills, that sort of thing.

I like the discussion with ando and hiro about "save the cheerleader. save the world" and whether saving the cheerleader is a condition to saving the world.


----------



## EMoMoney (Oct 30, 2001)

Does anybody else feel a disconnect with Niki/Micah/DL? Other than meeting Ando and Nathan, I still don't understand where they tie into the whole storyline. It almost seems like it's a side story at this point.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

No comment on the new tag line? From the previews (spolier, of course)



Spoiler



Are you on the list?



Guesss that "Save the cheeleader, save the world" is passe now.


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## SparkleMotion (Feb 2, 2004)

I really liked this one. One particuarly artful move, I thought, was the wipe from Isaac's painting of the stressed Hiro & Ando at the homecoming scene to the reality of that scene.

Smart show. But not too smart as to be unaccessable. 

Can't wait for 1/22!


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> I don't think peter was looking through sylar's eyes. The other heroes didn't fear him, they were disappointed in him. Why would claire run up to him if he were sylar?


He wasn't literally looking through Syler's eyes, in my opinion. It was a dream or a vision of some sort. Since Peter was having the dream, and didn't have any control over it, he put himself in that position (much like he thought it was him flying over New York and not his brother), and his mind filled in the rest... including the fact that everyone would be concerned about him. It's just convenient that he and Syler are similar in that they can display more than one ability, as it allows the writers the ability to throw in a little bit of misdirection.


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## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

> I like the theory that Nathan may have been coming to try to save NYC by flying Peter away and making him go boom somewhere else.


me too. it explains why Nathan would approach him as everyone else says "Sorry" and runs away. can't think of anything else that explains Nathan's behavior in the vision.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

jking said:


> He wasn't literally looking through Syler's eyes, in my opinion. It was a dream or a vision of some sort. Since Peter was having the dream, and didn't have any control over it, he put himself in that position (much like he thought it was him flying over New York and not his brother), and his mind filled in the rest... including the fact that everyone would be concerned about him. It's just convenient that he and Syler are similar in that they can display more than one ability, as it allows the writers the ability to throw in a little bit of misdirection.


Sorry but that's way too big of a leap for me. Whether or not it was a prediction of the future, peter definitely was not just arbitrarily dreaming of being someone else, surrounded by people he hadn't met yet, about to blow up the city, to the disappointment of his brother and claire.

Nope... I will not buy that theory, sorry. It's way too much of a stretch.

The show hasn't yet played us like that. Few if any scenes have been metaphorical like that.


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## Vroomfondel (Jul 10, 2006)

Wow, 90 posts and still no-one has mentioned the bad CG when DL put his hand through the door!

I think Eden is dead and she blew her brains out to stop Sylar from getting them. He still has to be vulnerable, but I knew he'd escape - too much storyline potential to end it there.

Hiro stated that he can't change the past when he returned from trying to save Charlie, so I wonder if Godzilla will somehow appear in modern day? Just a thought.

I love the way the show goes some ways to resolving issues before introducing new ones. An ideaof which, maybe, the producers of Lost should take note.


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## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

My take on the whole dream sequence is Peter now knows what is going to happen and how to stop it. I think it was a very important point that right before Claire ran off she said "I'm so sorry" (or very close) and then Peter blew up. I think that Peter is going to come in contact with radioactive guy and he won't be able to control it (or maybe something like the more "heroes" around Peter, the stronger each power gets) and Claire is there keeping him healed and if she were to get to far away from Peter then he goes into overload and isploeds*.

I was also very much expecting to see the kid in Peter's dreams. Maybe we find out he has something to do with them.

* - My kid is learning to read and doing things phonetically and that is how he spelled explodes on one of his drawings so I can't help but copy it.


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## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

chavez said:


> me too. it explains why Nathan would approach him as everyone else says "Sorry" and runs away. can't think of anything else that explains Nathan's behavior in the vision.


I think this is because no matter how much of jerk Nathan turns out to be, he is always there to take care of Peter.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

GDG76 said:


> "I really need to find that sword" had me cracking up.
> 
> I highly doubt we will be seeing Hiro fight a dinosaur, just because of the effects involved wouldn't be feasible on this show. Also, Isaac paints the future and technically, that would be the past so unless they somehow bring a dinosaur into the future from the past, I agree that it's probably metaphorical or Hiro goofing around at a museum or something like that...


The syndicated The Lost World had CGI dinosaurs on almost a weekly basis.
I think that Heroes has the budget if they want to,


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## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

a couple people expressed a wondering of who killed Chandra - um, that was shown in a previous episode. Remember, he was killed in the cab, got his head bashed by Sylar???? We know it was sylar because his Sylar watch on his left hand, it cracked and broke, and we later see that same watch, cracked and broken stuck on the same time - 11:53 - while he was sitting in the diner waiting to kill the waitress.


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## mtcbuilder (Nov 9, 2006)

unicorngoddess said:


> Maybe HRG answers to Linderman???


I don't know about that, but it is clear that he answers to someone. I think that will become a big question in future episodes.



unicorngoddess said:


> Also, I got the feeling that its not so much the Hacian blocking the powers as it is HRG himself.


I think you're right. People are attributing too much importance to the Hatian. I think HRG has some sort of blocking ability, and dumb as it may sound, I think his glasses have something to do with it. Remember the episode where he was looking at his (I think cracked?) glasses?



unicorngoddess said:


> ...And as for Peter's sickness...I have a feeling it has to do with him being around to many "heroes" all at once.


I think this is right as well. Sylar was sick too. HRG said it was from too much tinkering with his DNA. sort of a hero overload. Peter collapsed after getting another dose of Nathan. He even seemed to get sicker when Clair came to see him, rather than using her power to heal himself. It seems these abilities are the result of DNA mutations and too many of them makes the DNA fall apart or something.

Also, with regard to Peter's dream, I don't think Peter sees the future. His dreams have not been literal -- more figurative, whereas Isaac's paintings are usually very literal. Peter's dreams have meaning, but they may not show us what's going to happen. For instance, even though Peter dreamed that Sylar was in his cell, it never happened, at least not literally. Maybe a little bit of Sylar was in Peter.


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

GDG76 said:


> I highly doubt we will be seeing Hiro fight a dinosaur, just because of the effects involved wouldn't be feasible on this show.


They could probably afford a very short dinosaur sequence. They might also conceivably put it (or most of it) in the online comic.



milo99 said:


> a couple people expressed a wondering of who killed Chandra - um, that was shown in a previous episode. Remember, he was killed in the cab, got his head bashed by Sylar???? We know it was sylar because his Sylar watch on his left hand, it cracked and broke, and we later see that same watch, cracked and broken stuck on the same time - 11:53 - while he was sitting in the diner waiting to kill the waitress.


_Thank you_ for pointing this out! IMHO, it's been clearly established that Sylar killed Chandra. Of course, they _could_ go back on that, but doing so would be cheap, and the show hasn't been cheap in that particular way.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

jpwoof said:


> Nathan will save everyone's lives by flying him out of earth to go boom!!!


The problem I have with Nathan trying to fly anybody(thing?) that is about to go nuclear is that he better have enough time or he's going to make things A LOT worse. There's a big difference between a groundburst and an airburst, airburst being the worse of the two.


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

gastrof said:


> And I still want to know why in the world he hadn't escaped already if the Haitian wasn't there any more.


I'm with those who think HRG's organization has a containment cell that dampens peoples' powers. They certainly can't be relying on the Haitian to do the dampening; he's been in and out, and he presumably has to sleep occasionally. Perhaps they built the cell after studying how the Haitian's powers work; HRG implied that they'd be studying Sylar to figure out how his powers work, so they're probably set up for this sort of thing.


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

hughmcjr said:


> If he can move ANYTHING, then why couldn't he move people or the clothes they are wearing which would then move them?


Why do you think he can't? In fact, we've seen evidence that he _can_ move people, or at least corpses: We've seen at least one, and I think two, cases of dead bodies hung up on walls. (Once in the house where Matt Parkman found the little girl and I _think_ once in the FBI building.) There was also the case where Sylar caused Audrey Hanson (the FBI agent) to point her gun at herself. That could have been done in several ways, though (telekinetically moving the gun, telekinetically moving her arm and hand, or mind control).


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## mtcbuilder (Nov 9, 2006)

srs5694 said:


> I'm with those who think HRG's organization has a containment cell that dampens peoples' powers. They certainly can't be relying on the Haitian to do the dampening; he's been in and out, and he presumably has to sleep occasionally. Perhaps they built the cell after studying how the Haitian's powers work; HRG implied that they'd be studying Sylar to figure out how his powers work, so they're probably set up for this sort of thing.


We don't even know if the Haitian blocks people's powers. He erases memories, but maybe HRG - or some device or technology HRG posesses - was what was blocking powers.

Also, had anyone else noticed that when we first met Matt and he got abducted by HRG and the Haitian, HRG told him to wipe out Matt's memory. He did wipe some, but not all. Maybe the Haitian held back from finishing the job for the same reason he alluded to with Claire.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Cboath said:


> I think this is because no matter how much of jerk Nathan turns out to be, he is always there to take care of Peter.


Or he is anxious to cover up for his embarrassing little brother before there are political ramifications...

I think it remains to be seen if Nathan is hero or villain. Or rather, whether Nathan will ultimately become hero or villain.

As for the Haitian, I hadn't considered that he's not the one blocking powers, but it makes sense. Otherwise, he has multiple abilities (mindwiping, power-blocking) without Sylar's or Peter's excuse.


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## glumlord (Oct 27, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> Maybe we'll eventually meet up with a Hero that has the power to shape shift and Sylar gets that power as well. That also might explain what killed Chandra.


I keep hearing you guys discuss that it's questionable who killed Chandra but I thought it was proven it was Sylar by the broken watch.

Every episode before we discovered who Sylar's was we saw the watch he wears.

Edit:

Sorry for the Smeek milo99 I was on last page and posted before reading all the posts


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## hapdrastic (Mar 31, 2006)

unicorngoddess said:


> And I guess I didn't pay much attention to the Eden death scene. I thought they left it as a cliffhanger so we would wonder who really died?





Spoiler



I just read this week's online comic, it answers this.





unicorngoddess said:


> Maybe we'll eventually meet up with a Hero that has the power to shape shift and Sylar gets that power as well. That also might explain what killed Chandra.


I believe this to be the case too, I think it's the most reasonable answer too, and it's cool. I wonder if the character will be green a la Beast Boy.



EMoMoney said:


> Does anybody else feel a disconnect with Niki/Micah/DL? Other than meeting Ando and Nathan, I still don't understand where they tie into the whole storyline. It almost seems like it's a side story at this point.


While they're disconnected now, it's clear they're in NYC at the end (at least in Peter's vision), so they're brought into the fold somehow.

Great episode, but I don't want to wait until Jan 22 to see the next one. Anyone know if they'll keep running the comics or doing anything else during the next month+ to slowly leak more info?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

What dreams has peter had that wasn't literal? He dreamed of flying and he flew. The only one I can think of is the one with his GFs dad, which may have been semi-literal. Besides, it's a big difference between dreaming while asleep and having a waking vision. I don't remember ever having one of those, but I have lots of strange dreams.

Sylar killed Papa Suresh, QED as far as I am concerned.

Haitian guy blocks mental powers, QED again. This is not the sort of show that tricks the viewers. They have clearly implied on multiple occasions that Haitian guy blocked the mind reader and can erase memories. No other power blocking has occurred except in the room.

Unknown what prevents powers from working in the room, but it can't merely be HRG because they somehow believed that the room would keep sylar while HRG was gone. Thus it seems likely that they know something we don't.


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

Jeeters said:


> I think it was made obvious that Eden is is now dead or at least mortally wounded. They specifically showed Eden twisting the gun toward her head and then blood spattering and then a look of surprise on Sylar's face. The point the writers were obviously making was that Eden just 'sacrificed' her brain, ruining it for Sylar.


First, you're remembering the sequence wrong. It was: Gun shifts where it's pointing (apparently from Sylar toward Eden, but that's not 100% clear), Sylar shows surprise, and then we see red splatter on already-broken glass.

Second, the show's misdirected the audience about peoples' deaths in cliffhangers before. Lots of people assumed that D.L. was dead two episodes ago when Jessica took a shot at him; likewise for the rapist quarterback when Claire drove his car into a wall. I see this as _potentially_ fitting into the same category. They've shown nothing really definitive, just led us to assume that Eden killed herself to prevent Sylar from gaining her powers.

That said, they've gone further this time with indications of death -- namely, the red splatter (presumably blood, but who knows) on broken glass. If I had to lay odds, I'd say it's 75% likely that Eden is dead; however, based on the show's history of past misdirects in its cliffhangers, I still give her a 25% chance of survival.


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## glumlord (Oct 27, 2003)

I might of missed it but I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the following:

We now know that HRG serves and follows orders from a higher person.
The tattoo on Nikki's back is only there when she's Jessica.

I know not that big of a deal but those are questions that have been lingering on the forums here.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

srs5694 said:


> Second, the show's misdirected the audience about peoples' deaths in cliffhangers before. Lots of people assumed that D.L. was dead two episodes ago when Jessica took a shot at him;


I don't recall anyone assuming that. People assumed nikki was dead, that's the only instance I remember.



> likewise for the rapist quarterback when Claire drove his car into a wall. I see this as _potentially_ fitting into the same category. They've shown nothing really definitive, just led us to assume that Eden killed herself to prevent Sylar from gaining her powers.


Not many people assumed that either.



> That said, they've gone further this time with indications of death -- namely, the red splatter (presumably blood, but who knows) on broken glass. If I had to lay odds, I'd say it's 75% likely that Eden is dead; however, based on the show's history of past misdirects in its cliffhangers, I still give her a 25% chance of survival.


It's certainly possible, but it would be kind of cheap, especially since they were repeatedly promoting the episode as one involving losing a hero.


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

Why are people interpreting Peter's dream as literally prophetic? We've seen two other of his dreams, and neither could be interpreted in that way. In the first one, Peter spoke to Mr. Devereaux, announced that he could fly, and flew out the window. That never happened and we know it won't happen because Mr. Devereaux is now dead. Peter's second dream was at the beginning of this very episode, when his brother arrived in his cell and then turned into Sylar. Although Nathan did arrive later in the episode (wearing the same clothes -- but Peter might have been able to guess this based on knowledge of Nathan's upcoming events), Nathan certainly didn't turn into Sylar, and the dialog was different.

Ultimately, I'd be surprised if we saw the scenes of Peter's dream play out exactly as we saw them in his second dream of this episode. We might see something vaguely similar, and it's even possible that it will be Peter, after exposure to Sprague, who'll pose the explosive threat to NYC; but Peter's dreams seem to be more metaphorical than literal.

As a side note, pay attention to people's (and particularly Peter's) attire in the dream vs. in reality. Claire and Matt were wearing their police and cheerleader uniforms, which serve to identify them but which they probably wouldn't be wearing in NYC. In the dream Peter was wearing a dark blue trenchcoat, similar to what Sylar often wears, whereas in reality he often wears a beige trenchcoat. That could mean that it really will be Sylar who'll pose the threat, or it could mean that he sees himself as "switching sides," or perhaps something else. I'd be surprised if the change in wardrobe weren't significant, though.


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

mtcbuilder said:


> Also, had anyone else noticed that when we first met Matt and he got abducted by HRG and the Haitian, HRG told him to wipe out Matt's memory. He did wipe some, but not all. Maybe the Haitian held back from finishing the job for the same reason he alluded to with Claire.


I don't believe HRG ever intended to _completely_ wipe Matt's memories, just of his abduction experience. It's clear that the Haitian can selectively wipe memories, and HRG knows and routinely uses this ability (as evidenced by the Haitian's "many times" comment with respect to HRG's wife). Why would HRG _want_ to create a small army of completely amnesiac people with special powers? It makes much more sense that they'd just want to wipe the memories of their abductions in order to help cover their own tracks.


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## jhausmann (Aug 21, 2002)

Regarding Peter's dream sequences:


I think the obvious choice is missing, dream boy is giving Peter the dreams. I know not why...


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

RBlount said:


> No comment on the new tag line? From the previews (spoiler, of course)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I somehow missed the preview for the next episode - my showing cut straight to Studio 60. That new tagline reminds me of that reality show hosted by Paris Hilton's mom a few seasons ago. Can't recall what it was called at the moment...

Also, can someone confirm when the show is coming back? People here are saying January 22nd, but on the http://heroes.nbc.com official website it says "Returns January 1". I'm hoping for the latter...


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## jpwoof (May 19, 2004)

milo99 said:


> We know it was sylar because his Sylar watch on his left hand, it cracked and broke, and we later see that same watch, cracked and broken stuck on the same time - 11:53 - while he was sitting in the diner waiting to kill the waitress.


Speaking of Sylar watch.... Peter was wearing a Sylar watch in his vision when he was lying face down on the road.


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## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Or he is anxious to cover up for his embarrassing little brother before there are political ramifications...
> 
> I think it remains to be seen if Nathan is hero or villain. Or rather, whether Nathan will ultimately become hero or villain.
> 
> As for the Haitian, I hadn't considered that he's not the one blocking powers, but it makes sense. Otherwise, he has multiple abilities (mindwiping, power-blocking) without Sylar's or Peter's excuse.


Makes me wonder considering Nathan was going after Linderman with a vengeance, and now all of a sudden, he's just as far in bed with him as his father presumably was...

I'm thinking Nathan may turn into a "bad guy" but isn't "evil" in the very sense of the word as other anti-heroes may be...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> Haitian guy blocks mental powers, QED again. This is not the sort of show that tricks the viewers. They have clearly implied on multiple occasions that Haitian guy blocked the mind reader and can erase memories. No other power blocking has occurred except in the room.


If that's true, then I wonder why the Haitian has multiple powers? Only Sylar (who steals them) and Peter (who "borrows" them) have multiple powers, so if the Haitian does, there must be some explanation for why he is special.

And I don't think it's cheating if they invite us to jump to conclusions. Other posters have given logical explanations for why the Haitian may not be blocking powers after all.


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## mtcbuilder (Nov 9, 2006)

The online comic contains two important items. The first may be interpreted as a spoiler so I'll keep quiet, however it's there if you want to read it. The second, and more important information is the way HRG acts. He seems like he's basically good, not evil. When he is put in front of someone who really is bad, he can be seen as much more of a good guy. He said in the episode also that he has done some things that he's not proud of. We may not agree with all of his methods, but his reasons seem pretty noble. Asking the Haitian to wipe someone's memory isn't all that dastardly, is it? The real bad guy is cutting heads open.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

slydog75 said:


> "I love my dead gay son?" I don't see the connection!


Not that one. At the first Heather's funeral one of the football dudes says "Jesus god in heaven... why'd you have to take away such hot sn*tch?"


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## mtcbuilder (Nov 9, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> If that's true, then I wonder why the Haitian has multiple powers? Only Sylar (who steals them) and Peter (who "borrows" them) have multiple powers, so if the Haitian does, there must be some explanation for why he is special.
> 
> And I don't think it's cheating if they invite us to jump to conclusions. Other posters have given logical explanations for why the Haitian may not be blocking powers after all.


I think you're right. I think each hero only has one power. Sylar's power is to figure out other's powers so he can steal them and Peter's power is to mimic other's powers. Maybe that's why Peter couldn't throw the locker doors back Sylar with his mind, since the power was not really Sylar's in the first place. We were all just assuming that Peter didn't know how to use the power, but maybe he didn't absorb it in the first place.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

srs5694 said:


> Why are people interpreting Peter's dream as literally prophetic? We've seen two other of his dreams, and neither could be interpreted in that way. In the first one, Peter spoke to Mr. Devereaux, announced that he could fly, and flew out the window. That never happened and we know it won't happen because Mr. Devereaux is now dead. Peter's second dream was at the beginning of this very episode, when his brother arrived in his cell and then turned into Sylar. Although Nathan did arrive later in the episode (wearing the same clothes -- but Peter might have been able to guess this based on knowledge of Nathan's upcoming events), Nathan certainly didn't turn into Sylar, and the dialog was different.
> 
> Ultimately, I'd be surprised if we saw the scenes of Peter's dream play out exactly as we saw them in his second dream of this episode. We might see something vaguely similar, and it's even possible that it will be Peter, after exposure to Sprague, who'll pose the explosive threat to NYC; but Peter's dreams seem to be more metaphorical than literal.
> 
> As a side note, pay attention to people's (and particularly Peter's) attire in the dream vs. in reality. Claire and Matt were wearing their police and cheerleader uniforms, which serve to identify them but which they probably wouldn't be wearing in NYC. In the dream Peter was wearing a dark blue trenchcoat, similar to what Sylar often wears, whereas in reality he often wears a beige trenchcoat. That could mean that it really will be Sylar who'll pose the threat, or it could mean that he sees himself as "switching sides," or perhaps something else. I'd be surprised if the change in wardrobe weren't significant, though.


Glad to know I'm not the only one thinking along these lines, although you probably explained it a lot better than I did.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

glumlord said:


> I keep hearing you guys discuss that it's questionable who killed Chandra but I thought it was proven it was Sylar by the broken watch.
> 
> Every episode before we discovered who Sylar's was we saw the watch he wears.
> 
> ...


No. I know exactly how Chandra died. The online comic shows it in better detail. I even said they showed it in the episode where Mohinder had that "dream" I just said maybe Sylar acquired the powers of a shape shifter and that's how he got to Chandra. I mean, we were lead to believe that Chandra wasn't having anything to do with Sylar anymore because he became too scary...so why would he have let him in the cab?

Shape shifting into a dinosaur would just be cool and since he didn't need to study Chandra's brain all he wanted to do was tear him to shreds. So I was just creatively trying to find a way to tie that in.

Sorry if I caused too much confusion for everyone.


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

I also don't think Peter is absorbing anything from Sylar, I just think he's getting sick from being exposed to so many other heroes. Sylar is sick from stealing the powers, Peter is more overwhelmed from instant exposure to all the heroes at the same time. Claire, Matt, Haiten, Nathan at least. HRG, if he has blocking abilities. Hiro and Isaac where both in Odessa, they could have been exposing him to, depending on how close they have to be. Then there's Eden. That many people all in one place might be more than Peter can digest all at one time.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> It's certainly possible, but it would be kind of cheap, especially since they were repeatedly promoting the episode as one involving losing a hero.


They also repeatedly led us to believe that HRG was "the face of evil" when it seems obvious that Sylar is the true face of evil.

Heroes has shown us lots of misdirection before...no doubt about it. I, for one, would not be surprised if Eden returns and she's alive. Heck, it still wouldn't even shock me if they found a way to bring Charlie back.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

danterner said:


> That new tagline reminds me of that reality show hosted by Paris Hilton's mom a few seasons ago. Can't recall what it was called at the moment...


Who Wants To Be a Hilton.

Yeah, i watched it...


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

srs5694 said:


> Why are people interpreting Peter's dream as literally prophetic? We've seen two other of his dreams, and neither could be interpreted in that way. In the first one, Peter spoke to Mr. Devereaux, announced that he could fly, and flew out the window. That never happened and we know it won't happen because Mr. Devereaux is now dead. Peter's second dream was at the beginning of this very episode, when his brother arrived in his cell and then turned into Sylar. Although Nathan did arrive later in the episode (wearing the same clothes -- but Peter might have been able to guess this based on knowledge of Nathan's upcoming events), Nathan certainly didn't turn into Sylar, and the dialog was different.
> 
> Ultimately, I'd be surprised if we saw the scenes of Peter's dream play out exactly as we saw them in his second dream of this episode. We might see something vaguely similar, and it's even possible that it will be Peter, after exposure to Sprague, who'll pose the explosive threat to NYC; but Peter's dreams seem to be more metaphorical than literal.
> 
> As a side note, pay attention to people's (and particularly Peter's) attire in the dream vs. in reality. Claire and Matt were wearing their police and cheerleader uniforms, which serve to identify them but which they probably wouldn't be wearing in NYC. In the dream Peter was wearing a dark blue trenchcoat, similar to what Sylar often wears, whereas in reality he often wears a beige trenchcoat. That could mean that it really will be Sylar who'll pose the threat, or it could mean that he sees himself as "switching sides," or perhaps something else. I'd be surprised if the change in wardrobe weren't significant, though.


Also note that the Hiro in Peter's dream is the present-day Hiro (whom he's never met) and not the Samurai Jack Hiro from the more distant future (who knows Peter well enough in his own time to think Peter looks different without a scar) ... which certainly imples that it's not Peter who explodes, because he survives farther into the future. The dream here is too reminiscent of the flying dreams he had in the beginning of the series and the one he had when Simone's father died.


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## MFruchey (May 25, 2006)

All this excitement about a dinosaur...

Am I the only one who rolls her eyes when thinking about a dinosaur in Heroes? Polar bears are one thing, but I don't want any hero of mine doing battle with a dino. Just seems cheap and cheesy to me.


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

MFruchey said:


> All this excitement about a dinosaur...
> 
> Am I the only one who rolls her eyes when thinking about a dinosaur in Heroes? Polar bears are one thing, but I don't want any hero of mine doing battle with a dino. Just seems cheap and cheesy to me.


+1


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Doesn't the New York Natural History museum have a full T-Rex mockup?
maybe Sylar animates it with his TK.

And maybe Haitan guy is an Emma Frost/Saturn Girl level telepath who can shut off people's powers from inside the brain.


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## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

re: the Hatian's powers.

wasn't it discussed in previous threads that perhaps his powers are dealing with the brain - erasing memories stored _in the brain_, blocking others' powers because the stem from _the brain_. So i don't think that he necessarily has 2 or more powers, if indeed people have 1 core power (Peter is a mimic, Sylar can collect powers by figuring out how they tick and doing whatever to take the power - in and of themselves these are single powers).


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## mtcbuilder (Nov 9, 2006)

milo99 said:


> re: the Hatian's powers.
> 
> wasn't it discussed in previous threads that perhaps his powers are dealing with the brain - erasing memories stored _in the brain_, blocking others' powers because the stem from _the brain_. So i don't think that he necessarily has 2 or more powers, if indeed people have 1 core power (Peter is a mimic, Sylar can collect powers by figuring out how they tick and doing whatever to take the power - in and of themselves these are single powers).


HRG has told the Haitian to erase memories, but has never specifically told him to block powers (that we've seen). I'm just not convinced he is doing the blocking. Also, if you read the online comic, HRG and the Haitian subdue Sylar with some kind of multi-shot tranquilizer gun, not with any mind-controlling hero-power-blocking brain control.


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## jschuman (Feb 20, 2001)

mtcbuilder,
You might want to spoiler that info as some people here do not read the online comics and don't want to know what is contained within.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I think...

...the Haitian blocks powers; where was HRG when Matt was taken in the bar? Why else would the Haitian need to be there?

...Sylar definitely killed Chandra. No questions.

...Hiro fighting a dinosaur would be awesome and it will happen (although maybe not shown in the show) because Isaac's paintings have all been literal.

...the Niki/Michah/DL storyline is dull and hasn't connected to any of the other heroes at all and thus far has been a waste of space.

...HRG is a "bad guy" but not necessarily "evil." He is a "bad guy" in the sense that his intentions are not of the noble, save-the-world variety but they are of the government conspiracy, what's in it for me variety.

...Peter collapsed from being sick and then had a dream. His dream was vision-eqsue , but will not be what literally happens.

...Nathan may end up being a "bad guy" in the same vein as HRG.

...I still maintain that memory-wiping is a terrible thing to do, both to the people it happens to and those who are not altered, as Claire demonstrates here. I think it is a serious violation.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

I didn't even know there were online comics.


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

I'm glad to see people thinking about shape-changers now. It seems there have been a couple of Isaac's paintings that have had a "monster" in them with something connecting the monster to Simone. I'm wondering if she isn't a new hero with some kind of transformational power. I think one of the online comics highlighted this better than the shots we've seen of the paintings on the show.

Also, Sylar's visit to Peter's jailcell could have lots of explanations from a psychic projection to some other dream avenue.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jpwoof said:


> Speaking of Sylar watch.... Peter was wearing a Sylar watch in his vision when he was lying face down on the road.


Surprised nobody else has keyed in on this detail. In Peter's vision of the future, he was wearing Sylar's watch. That's a huge clue as to how we should interpret the vision.

Did anyone think it was stupid that Nathan showed up in Texas to collect Peter still wearing a tux with his bowtie undone? It's not like Peter was in so much danger that Nathan couldn't change before he went to the airport, or have someone meet him at the airport with a change of clothes, or just buy a new outfit en route. I hate when shows make those kind of mistakes that just have no rational explanation.


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

devdogaz said:


> Surprised nobody else has keyed in on this detail. In Peter's vision of the future, he was wearing Sylar's watch. That's a huge clue as to how we should interpret the vision.
> 
> Did anyone think it was stupid that Nathan showed up in Texas to collect Peter still wearing a tux with his bowtie undone? It's not like Peter was in so much danger that Nathan couldn't change before he went to the airport, or have someone meet him at the airport with a change of clothes, or just buy a new outfit en route. I hate when shows make those kind of mistakes that just have no rational explanation.


But this one does have a rational explanation. He could have flown there himself, using his power, and got there in seconds.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

dimented said:


> But this one does have a rational explanation. He could have flown there himself, using his power, and got there in seconds.


Touché. I didn't even think of that.


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## MasterCephus (Jan 3, 2005)

I think the whole Hiro and the dinosaur is somewhat telling that Hiro will have to face a monster. We know that Syler was after the cheerleader, but did we ever see his face in the paintings that Isaac drew? I remember that one when she was in the stands, but he was just a huge menacing shadow.

I think possibly it's just saying that Hiro will face Syler. This might be the reason future Hiro has a sword. I just don't see TPTB actually having a dinosaur on the show. And honestly, the sheer size of a T-Rex versus a human just wouldn't be a fight without Hiro stopping time and then stabbing the dinosaur repeatedly, which honestly wouldn't make for good TV.

I think the picture is purely metaphoric.


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## jschuman (Feb 20, 2001)

IndyJones1023 said:


> I didn't even know there were online comics.


Yes, they're quite interesting. They usually contain snippets on particular characters - usually backstories but often more insight into the events that took/take place on the show.

A small warning: The online comics may contain [usually minor] spoilers for the show. Personally, it doesn't really bother me but I know that some people don't like to be spoiled.


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

jschuman said:


> Yes, they're quite interesting. They usually contain snippets on particular characters - usually backstories but often more insight into the events that took/take place on the show.
> 
> A small warning: The online comics may contain [usually minor] spoilers for the show. Personally, it doesn't really bother me but I know that some people don't like to be spoiled.


The comics usually give us details on the stories that the show doesn't which is why I look forward to them the next day.

Many people do not realize they exist, or that they are part of the same story. The things that happen in them are important enough to explaining the characters they are definitely worth the read. Even though they are way too short.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

IndyJones1023 said:


> I didn't even know there were online comics.


Just a reminder to anyone that does look at the online comics: supposedly they'll be continuing, even through the show's December/January hiatus. So check back weekly...


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

Excellent news, that means more back story and side stories to keep us brewing on our fave heros!


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

And yet another random thought. Memory is based on physiology, neural synaptic patters, etc ... if the Haitian erases memory, isn't he making a phiscial alteration? And if he tries it on Claire, wouldn't her ability to heal eventually repair whatever changes he may have made and give her back her memories?


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

danterner said:


> Just a reminder to anyone that does look at the online comics: supposedly they'll be continuing, even through the show's December/January hiatus. So check back weekly...


Yay! that's very good news.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Shakhari said:


> And yet another random thought. Memory is based on physiology, neural synaptic patters, etc ... if the Haitian erases memory, isn't he making a phiscial alteration? And if he tries it on Claire, wouldn't her ability to heal eventually repair whatever changes he may have made and give her back her memories?


I like the way you're thinking and, logically, I think you'd be right. However, the writers have established that the seat of her power is in her brain - alter her brain (by, say, shoving a branch into it) and she's powerless to heal. So maybe the same would apply if the Haitian tried to erase her memory. It would 'take,' because her brain is her achilles heel. Who is to say that HRG hasn't erased Claire's memory following each of the other times she's injured/healed previously, and 6 months is just the time since her last erasure?

On a separate note: Is anyone else following the Comic Book Resources - "Behind the Eclipse" series of interviews with the writers/producers? Its a Q&A dialog that really gets into a lot of the issues we discuss here. It's very spoiler-rich, but well worth reading if you're thirsting for more Heroes info. The newest entry is up, discussing Fallout. One of the questions deals with Hiro and time paradoxes. The writers essentially say "don't worry about any apparent inconsistencies - we'll be explaining it all." Here's hoping...


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

Dinosaur?
Dragon?
Godzilla?

-No
-No
-No

*
Gorn! Yes!!*


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## GadgetFreak (Jun 3, 2002)

devdogaz said:


> Surprised nobody else has keyed in on this detail. In Peter's vision of the future, he was wearing Sylar's watch. That's a huge clue as to how we should interpret the vision.


After i saw it I immediately thought that in the dream, either Peter was really Sylar or that Nathan was Sylar (since he took Nathan's shape in the earlier dream). I hadn't noticed the watch. some of the people that run towards Peter then turn away -- I wonder how they can tell?


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## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

danterner said:


> I like the way you're thinking and, logically, I think you'd be right. However, the writers have established that the seat of her power is in her brain - alter her brain (by, say, shoving a branch into it) and she's powerless to heal.


No - she's not able to heal if the cause of the cause of the wound is still in the way. Once the stick was removed, the (her) healing power was able to heal the wound. Which had to have displaced a significant portion of her brain.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Zevida said:


> I think...
> 
> ...the Haitian blocks powers; where was HRG when Matt was taken in the bar? Why else would the Haitian need to be there?
> 
> ...


I concur completely (well, I might quibble with the last one. Selective memory-wiping is certainly violative, but in the grand scheme of "bad" things, it falls pretty low on the scale. Complete memory-wiping is certainly another thing entirely.)

Otherwise,

- There have been at least 2 instances of Haitian guy "blocking" another's power when HRG was not present: when he shut down Matt's mindreading ability in the bar, and when he helped subdue Sylar with Eden. IIRC, Sylar tried and failed to use his powers against Eden before Eden used the Jedi Mind Trick on him. That also leads me to believe the Haitian guy is not just an overall power dampener, but that he can selectively use and target his ability - since he shut down Sylar but allowed Eden to use hers. As for why he has 2 abilities when everyone else seems to be stuck with 1? Dunno.

- Peter's dreams have not once been literal/prophetic, whereas Isaac's paintings have each turned out that way, leading me to believe that Hiro will in fact square off against a dinosaur/dragon and that Peter is not going to be the bomb.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Haitian guy could still have one power, to corrupt brain activity. Just like Hiro's power which can be manifest either in space or time forward and backward, he could have multiple features of his power. He can corrupt his own brain enough so no one can read it, and he can corrupt someone else's brain so they forget things.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> - Peter's dreams have not once been literal/prophetic, whereas Isaac's paintings have each turned out that way, leading me to believe that Hiro will in fact square off against a dinosaur/dragon and that Peter is not going to be the bomb.


Peter's dream about flying was prophetic.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> Peter's dream about flying was prophetic.


Okay, prophetic maybe, but not literal (since he can't actually fly by himself, and what was depicted in his dream did not actually happen that way).


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Okay, prophetic maybe, but not literal (since he can't actually fly by himself, and what was depicted in his dream did not actually happen that way).


Alright, point taken. But I find it really unlikely that he has nothing to do with his recent dream of blowing up new york with nuclear powers. At the least it would indicate that he would be unable to control them. And it's suspicious to think it isn't prophetic since he hasn't met some of the heroes that were in the vision.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

MasterCephus said:


> I think the whole Hiro and the dinosaur is somewhat telling that Hiro will have to face a monster. We know that Syler was after the cheerleader, but did we ever see his face in the paintings that Isaac drew? I remember that one when she was in the stands, but he was just a huge menacing shadow.
> 
> [...]
> 
> I think the picture is purely metaphoric.


But the image of the cheerleader in the stands being shrowded by a huge menacing shadow _literally_ happened. It wasn't a metaphor for anything. Now, it so happened that the shadow wasn't Sylar, it was HRG coming to his frightened daughter's aid, but the image in the painting was literal.

If you're going to assert that the Hiro and the dinosaur picture is a metaphor, you have to be able to point to at least one previous painting of Issac's that has been demonstrated to be a metaphor. I don't think anyone can, so we have to take it literally.

Now, just because we have to take it literally, that doesn't mean that the most obvious (or even likely) interpretation is the correct one. There's no context for us to make an accurate assertion about what the painting is really of. What we can say, however, is that it's literal. To say otherwise would ignore everything we've seen so far and the writers have thus far not shown themselves to be _that_ sloppy.


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## mtcbuilder (Nov 9, 2006)

TAsunder said:


> Alright, point taken. But I find it really unlikely that he has nothing to do with his recent dream of blowing up new york with nuclear powers. At the least it would indicate that he would be unable to control them. And it's suspicious to think it isn't prophetic since he hasn't met some of the heroes that were in the vision.


Yes, something like the dream may happen, and I'm sure it has meaning, but I'm pretty sure the actual scene will not happen, unlike Isaac's paintings and comic books, where the actual events and dialog even match the art.


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

Maybe this has been mentioned before but until now it did not really bug me.

Hiro has had and been using that comic for a while now. And it has been accurate to everything that has gone on in his life. So why did he not see the waitress death and/or sickness in it and know to stop it? Or the gambling problem he ran into? Or Nathan flying into the diner? Or anything else that has happened.

The info was sure there when he showed it to Isaak at Burnt Toast.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Ray Bradbury, "A Sound of Thunder."


Whatever you do, don't watch the movie version of this with Ed Burns that's currently playing on HBO. Painfully horrible (and probably nothing like the short story). :down:


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## SparkleMotion (Feb 2, 2004)

Peter could have been "dreaming" into another person's future self.

It may have appeared to be HIM in his own self-image, but I'm betting it's Radioactivity-Killed-His-Wife guy.

Or at LEAST that the group's efforts to shut Radioactive Man down deliver either the end result or lead to a solution to prevent it.

But that's just idle speculation.


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

rkester said:


> Hiro has had and been using that comic for a while now. And it has been accurate to everything that has gone on in his life. So why did he not see the waitress death and/or sickness in it and know to stop it? Or the gambling problem he ran into? Or Nathan flying into the diner? Or anything else that has happened.
> 
> The info was sure there when he showed it to Isaak at Burnt Toast.


The comic ended well before that point, shortly after he and Ando left the airport to head to Las Vegas. The scenes in the Burnt Toast diner were from Isaac's sketchbook, not the comic that Hiro purchased in future-NYC.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Okay, Peter's dreams.

Why does anyone think they are literal or that they will come true.

Didn't you see the "dream" he had about his brother coming to bail him out. The conversation was nothing like the reality when it happened and his brother didn't turn into Sylar in the real conversation.

So why would anyone think his dreams are going to come true as he sees them? They gave you the clue that they aren't in the same episode. Just as they pointed out that the Haitian can't speak but he speaks 20 minutes later, showing that he has been lying to HRG all along.


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

busyba said:


> But the image of the cheerleader in the stands being shrowded by a huge menacing shadow _literally_ happened. It wasn't a metaphor for anything. Now, it so happened that the shadow wasn't Sylar, it was HRG coming to his frightened daughter's aid, but the image in the painting was literal.


A minor point of correction: When the scene actually played out, the shadow was cast by Peter, not by HRG. A few seconds later, Sylar cast a larger shadow over both Claire and Peter. HRG, although at the school, wasn't present to witness Claire's flight from Sylar or to cast a shadow over her at that point.


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

srs5694 said:


> The comic ended well before that point, shortly after he and Ando left the airport to head to Las Vegas. The scenes in the Burnt Toast diner were from Isaac's sketchbook, not the comic that Hiro purchased in future-NYC.


You are right. I was thinking the comic was what they showed Isaak. Does anyone remember what the last pages in the comic where by chance?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

busyba said:


> But the image of the cheerleader in the stands being shrowded by a huge menacing shadow _literally_ happened. It wasn't a metaphor for anything. Now, it so happened that the shadow wasn't Sylar, it was HRG coming to his frightened daughter's aid, but the image in the painting was literal.


Totally disagree on this.

The painting was Sylar and they changed this "future." The angle they used was exact in real time except that Peter was with her when Sylar was coming. The shadow matched.

If everything happens that was painted with no changing of the future, then Goodbye New York and the whole hero thing is a sham.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

srs5694 said:


> A minor point of correction: When the scene actually played out, the shadow was cast by Peter, not by HRG. A few seconds later, Sylar cast a larger shadow over both Claire and Peter. HRG, although at the school, wasn't present to witness Claire's flight from Sylar or to cast a shadow over her at that point.


Gotta disagree with you, too.

The shot was shown DELIBERATELY to show you the same angle but that Peter was there when the shadow was cast. There was no shot of Peter's shadow that matched the comic book.

It was the tip off that the paintings don't have to become reality.


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

Zevida said:


> I think...
> 
> ...HRG is a "bad guy" but not necessarily "evil." He is a "bad guy" in the sense that his intentions are not of the noble, save-the-world variety but they are of the government conspiracy, what's in it for me variety.
> 
> ...


IMHO, trying to pigeonhole the characters, or at least some of them, into "good" and "evil" (or even "good guy" and "bad guy") oversimplifies matters. They fall on a continuum, and even their placement on that continuum can vary depending on what criteria you're using. Sylar is pretty far towards one end of that continuum, Peter may be the furthest toward the other end, and most of the rest fall in-between these two. Yes, ordering (or performing, in the case of the Haitian) even partial mind-wipes is a violation; but OTOH his motives seem, at least tentatively, to be to protect society in general and his daughter in particular. Some of the difficulty in placing HRG has to do with the fact that we still know so little about him. What are his precise motives, aside from protecting Claire? Who is his boss? What other skeletons are in his closet? Even characters who seem to be regarded here as "good guys" aren't spotless; Hiro's cheated at poker and other gambling, Claire nearly killed the quarterback, and of course Niki/Jessica is very complex and difficult to pin down.

IMHO, it's better to simply accept the characters as complex entities who aren't the over-simplified cardboard cut-out stereotypes who so often populate TV shows and movies. Be glad of this; it helps make the show more interesting.


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> Gotta disagree with you, too.
> 
> The shot was shown DELIBERATELY to show you the same angle but that Peter was there when the shadow was cast. There was no shot of Peter's shadow that matched the comic book.
> 
> It was the tip off that the paintings don't have to become reality.


I reviewed this very carefully at the time of broadcast. There were _two_ shots from the same angle. One showed Peter casting a shadow over Claire and the other, a couple of seconds later, showed Sylar casting a shadow over both Claire and Peter. Neither shadow exactly matched the shadow in the painting, which was much more distinct and menacing than in reality. Of course, Isaac's paintings can't _exactly_ match reality in every detail -- they're _paintings,_ after all, not photographs. Given that fact, IMHO it's not clear whether or not Isaac's "shadow painting" actually happened.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

rkester said:


> You are right. I was thinking the comic was what they showed Isaak. Does anyone remember what the last pages in the comic where by chance?


I thought the final page in the comic book was a shot of them driving away from LA in the car toward Vegas. I remember the distinct thought that they wouldn't know what to do from there on out because that was the end of the book.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> It was the tip off that the paintings don't have to become reality.


The paintings don't have to become reality, but when they do they are literal. There's been absolutely zero evidence thus far to support the claim of metaphor.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

The nathan/peter scene played out very similarly though. Not exactly the same but eerily similar for it to have been coincidence. And as I said before, it's one thing to have a dream, another to pass out and have a vision of people you've never met who actually exist and see an event that isn't all that implausible.


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## MrGreg (May 2, 2003)

That's an interesting point. There were people in Peter's dream/vision that we as the audience know, but Peter hasn't met yet.


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## DeludedBuzz (Dec 6, 2001)

> Doesn't the New York Natural History museum have a full T-Rex mockup?
> maybe Sylar animates it with his TK.


I think this is the closest ideal to what's going to happen, except I don't think the T-Rex moves at all. I would bet a lot that Hiro finds himself in the museum with a sword chasing after someone and he passes by the mockup. The painting indicates where and with what, but doesn't neccesarily mean he will fight a dinosaur.

Also the online comic pretty conclusively indicates what happens to Eden.


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## TivoFan (Feb 22, 2000)

busyba said:


> Symbolism? Issac's paintings aren't metaphors, they're always quite literal.


Not necessarily. We saw Jessica appear on the cover of the comic book as a she-monster. Something we've not seen her do in real life yet.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

TivoFan said:


> Not necessarily. We saw Jessica appear on the cover of the comic book as a she-monster. Something we've not seen her do in real life yet.


How do you know that was Jessica? And if it is, how do you know that it isn't a literal image of how she actually looks when she kills?


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## mr flynn (Feb 28, 2006)

don't you guys get it they talked about it in one of the episodes,Peters power is human combusiton this is where the explosion comes from.He blows himself upI think something changed Jessica back into Nikki after seeing Jessica hit Michca.


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## mlisowski (Oct 2, 2001)

mr flynn said:


> don't you guys get it they talked about it in one of the episodes,Peters power is human combusiton this is where the explosion comes from.He blows himself .


Where do you get that from?


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

mr flynn said:


> don't you guys get it they talked about it in one of the episodes,Peters power is human combusiton this is where the explosion comes from.He blows himself upI think something changed Jessica back into Nikki after seeing Jessica hit Michca.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

jradford said:


>


+1

phox


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## alansh (Jan 3, 2003)

You can see the _9th Wonders!_ art here.

As for the comics, they're plugged during the show each week, so they're hardly secret. I strongly recommend people go read them. Why wouldn't you? 

I think _Heroes_ will run reruns on Jan. 1, 8, and 15, with new episodes restarting on the 22nd, which is why it "returns" Jan. 1.


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

mr flynn said:


> don't you guys get it they talked about it in one of the episodes,Peters power is human combusiton this is where the explosion comes from.He blows himself upI think something changed Jessica back into Nikki after seeing Jessica hit Michca.


Yeah you guys are so stupidwhy don't you get that?I'm going to make a sandwich nowPenguins are funny.


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## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

danterner said:


> On a separate note: Is anyone else following the Comic Book Resources - "Behind the Eclipse" series of interviews with the writers/producers? Its a Q&A dialog that really gets into a lot of the issues we discuss here. It's very spoiler-rich, but well worth reading if you're thirsting for more Heroes info. The newest entry is up, discussing Fallout. One of the questions deals with Hiro and time paradoxes. The writers essentially say "don't worry about any apparent inconsistencies - we'll be explaining it all." Here's hoping...


Here's an interesting spoiler-free tidbit from that little gem:
"23 episodes, that was Episode 10."

So we get one extra episode? Sweet.

And +1 to the crappy effect of DL sticking his hand through the door. The door moved so much I thought it was played by Micheal J. Fox (too soon?).


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## lawilson2 (Oct 6, 2005)

johnperkins21 said:


> And +1 to the crappy effect of DL sticking his hand through the door. The door moved so much I thought it was played by Micheal J. Fox (too soon?).


lol....good lord...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

johnperkins21 said:


> Here's an interesting spoiler-free tidbit from that little gem:
> "23 episodes, that was Episode 10."
> 
> So we get one extra episode? Sweet.


Just making sure others realize that when that referred to Episode 10 it wasn't talking about the most recent episode (Fallout) but the one before it. So yes, that's cool that we get 23. Just so long as people don't think there are 13 more.


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

johnperkins21 said:


> And +1 to the crappy effect of DL sticking his hand through the door. The door moved so much I thought it was played by Micheal J. Fox (too soon?).


I'm sorry, but I laughed at this. 

Just had to come clean.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

MickeS said:


> You misinterpreted that scene badly. She didn't off herself intentionally - he used his power against her.
> 
> EDIT: I stand corrected! I was the one who misinterpreted that scene badly.  Looking at it again I see Sylar's expression of surprise before she shoots herself.
> 
> Very good episode. Can't wait to find out about Hiro & the Dragon (well dinosaur, but it was a nice homage to dragonslayer myths ).


I misinterpreted it also. There really is a lot going on in the show. They definitely give you your money's worth. I find myself missing little things. I had thought he killed her, but the consensus is that she killed herself.

I have to say that it wasn't a surprise he got her when she approached him. It's a typical plot device used thousands of times before. But even though I saw it coming, it was still way cool to actually witness it. It happened so fast.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

mtcbuilder said:


> The online comic contains two important items. The first may be interpreted as a spoiler so I'll keep quiet, however it's there if you want to read it. The second, and more important information is the way HRG acts. He seems like he's basically good, not evil. When he is put in front of someone who really is bad, he can be seen as much more of a good guy. He said in the episode also that he has done some things that he's not proud of. We may not agree with all of his methods, but his reasons seem pretty noble. Asking the Haitian to wipe someone's memory isn't all that dastardly, is it? The real bad guy is cutting heads open.


Best one of the comics yet!


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## DonRoeber (Nov 30, 2003)

We know that it's not Peter who blows up IRL; in the dream he didn't have a scar on his face, and when Future Hiro met him on the subway, he said something like "I hardly recognize you without the scar", so clearly, Peter is going to be around for awhile more.

With regards to the power blocking thing, what if disabling powers is HRG's ability? The hatian could just be incharge of wiping minds.


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

DonRoeber said:


> We know that it's not Peter who blows up IRL; in the dream he didn't have a scar on his face, and when Future Hiro met him on the subway, he said something like "I hardly recognize you without the scar", so clearly, Peter is going to be around for awhile more.


But how do we know that? Future Hiro has been stomping around for awhile with all kinds of information from the future. It is very possible in my mind to consider that the timeline in which Peter had that scar has been altered and will not happen, thus making it possible for him to die and be the bomb.

Remember the great line from Back to the future. The future is not written yet so make it a good one, or something along those lines.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

TAsunder said:


> Sorry but that's way too big of a leap for me. Whether or not it was a prediction of the future, peter definitely was not just arbitrarily dreaming of being someone else, surrounded by people he hadn't met yet, about to blow up the city, to the disappointment of his brother and claire.
> 
> Nope... I will not buy that theory, sorry. It's way too much of a stretch.
> 
> The show hasn't yet played us like that. Few if any scenes have been metaphorical like that.


As far as we know, Peter hasn't met Niki, DL, or Micah, yet they were in the dream. He wouldn't have conjured them specifically if his dream was arbitrary - there was a purpose in it - it is possibly a remnant of Isaac's ability.

I think he comes in contact with Radioactive Man, and cannot control the power, so he explodes.

<wild speculation>I also don't think the explosion will kill him - it would be more like a "release." I think Nathan will fly him way up high and then bolt, thinking his brother is dead. Once Peter is done releasing, he will fall uncontrollably until he gets close to the ground, realizes he was just near his brother, and fly.</wild speculation>

I know I'm right...


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

srs5694 said:


> Why do you think he can't? In fact, we've seen evidence that he _can_ move people, or at least corpses: We've seen at least one, and I think two, cases of dead bodies hung up on walls. (Once in the house where Matt Parkman found the little girl and I _think_ once in the FBI building.) There was also the case where Sylar caused Audrey Hanson (the FBI agent) to point her gun at herself. That could have been done in several ways, though (telekinetically moving the gun, telekinetically moving her arm and hand, or mind control).


Not to mention the fact that he moved Eden directly...


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

johnperkins21 said:


> And +1 to the crappy effect of DL sticking his hand through the door. The door moved so much I thought it was played by Micheal J. Fox (too soon?).


Well, too late and you'd be entirely inaccurate....


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

One thing this episode confirms is that Sylar doesn't have any sort of "hero radar" that lets him sense heros, at least if they're not using their ability. He said something to Eden that implied he'd met her before and was surprised she had a special ability.


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

classicX said:


> As far as we know, Peter hasn't met Niki, DL, or Micah, yet they were in the dream. He wouldn't have conjured them specifically if his dream was arbitrary - there was a purpose in it - it is possibly a remnant of Isaac's ability.


There can be a purpose in a (fantasy-genre) dream, and such a dream can even reveal information unknown to the dreamer, without it being _literally_ clairvoyant. To date, _none_ of Peter's dreams have been shown to be _literally_ and _completely_ clairvoyant, but he's had several dreams that reveal information he "shouldn't" know:


In the pilot, he dreamed of flying, and said he'd done so repeatedly. This is the dream that came closest to being literally clairvoyant, because in his dream he jumped/fell off a tall building, just has he later did in the episode. In his dream, though, he flew around the city, which he didn't do when he later attempted the feat -- he was caught by his brother and briefly flew, but wound up in a hospital. It can be argued that this dream was a bog-standard self-fulfilling prophecy; he jumped off the building because he'd had the dream, which could conceivably have been a perfectly ordinary dream. (I don't believe the latter, though, given his other dreams.)
In one episode, Peter said he knew when Nathan had gotten into the car accident, and in "Six Months Ago" we saw him discuss this with Nathan. In fact, the scene of the accident ended with Peter waking up, implying that Peter dreamed what had just been shown, although that's not really certain. If he did, then his dream was literally true, but not clairvoyant; it would be more a matter of his dreaming what his brother was doing.
In another episode, Peter dreamed that he told Mr. Deveaux about his ability to fly, then demonstrated, again by flying around NYC. This never happened, and soon after he had the dream he learned that Mr. Deveaux had just died, so it clearly won't happen. Mr. Deveaux had a moment of clarity just before he died, and he spoke of Peter at that time, suggesting a two-way link between the two of them.
At the beginning of the latest episode, when Peter was in the jail cell, he dreamed (or perhaps had a waking vision) about his brother visiting him. Nathan then turned into Sylar. Nathan did later come to bail Peter out, but it wouldn't take a clairvoyant to predict this would happen. Furthermore, the dialog didn't go the way it did in the dream (although some of the themes were the same) and Nathan certainly didn't turn into Sylar.

All in all, the pattern for Peter's dreams is that they are special, but they suggest more in the way of telepathy or empathy than they do clairvoyance. The repeated dreams of flying and the dream about Nathan's accident could both be explained by a strong telepathic link to his brother; Peter might be dreaming of flying when Nathan was flying or because Nathan was thinking about flying. A similar explanation might account for the jail-cell dream, with the added twist that Sylar somehow obtruded into the dream. The dream about Mr. Deveaux and flying could indicate a simultaneous link to both Nathan and Mr. Deveaux.

All in all, there's scant evidence for Peter as clairvoyant (except of course insofar as he can paint the future when he's around Isaac), and even if his dreams have any clairvoyant power, they're clearly distorted and/or metaphorical, not literal. As such, the _most_ we can say about Peter's latest dream as clairvoyance is that something _vaguely resembling_ what we saw might occur. Just as likely, it reflects a gestalt prediction/fear put together by his own (and/or other characters') subconscious(es) based on the information that they each have.


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## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

Just because I like the sound it makes:

I'm still kind of surprised to see all the people who believe that Peter's powers stick with him for any length of time. I think one of the main reasons for people to believe this is the stick figure drawing he made after being with Isaac. However, if I remember correctly when Isaac (and later Peter) go into their trance they see the scene, and then stay in it long enough to make the detailed paintings. What I think may have happened is that Peter saw the scene in his head, and drew the stick figures from memory of that scene he saw in his head. I don't think it was a lingering effect of Isaac's powers.

That's just my take on it anywho. Feel free to make fun of me, and my sometimes poor recollection of things.


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## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

jpwoof said:


> Speaking of Sylar watch.... Peter was wearing a Sylar watch in his vision when he was lying face down on the road.


i just rewatched the end and I saw a watch that looks i guess like the Sylar, but i could not make out the name. THen again, i don't have HD. The thing though is that the watch was not broken, and the time was like 7:35 or so. Not sure if it means anything...

got a screen cap by any chance?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

milo99 said:


> i just rewatched the end and I saw a watch that looks i guess like the Sylar, but i could not make out the name. THen again, i don't have HD. The thing though is that the watch was not broken, and the time was like 7:35 or so. Not sure if it means anything...
> 
> got a screen cap by any chance?


It's on his wrist when he's laying on the sidewalk after he collapses. I'm not positive it's Sylar's watch, but the camera starts its shot on the watch and then pulls back, so I think it must have some significance.

No screen cap. Sorry.


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## SparkleMotion (Feb 2, 2004)

devdogaz said:


> It's on his wrist when he's laying on the sidewalk after he collapses. I'm not positive it's Sylar's watch, but the camera starts its shot on the watch and then pulls back, so I think it must have some significance.
> 
> No screen cap. Sorry.


Hmm...the significance being that perhaps it IS Sylar who is the focus of the dream and not actually Peter?

The only other person who seems able to coopt other's powers happens to be Sylar. Since Peter was WITH Sylar earlier in the evening (just hours before), what's to say he hasn't "borrowed" one of Sylar's stolen powers, just as unintentionally as he borrowed Claire's, and is seeing himself AS Sylar in the endgame? ... Perhaps after Sylar has killed and absorbed Radioactive Man's ability! This makes good sense to me.

I just re-watched that part myself and it looks as though even HD won't be able to READ the watch name, as it was shot out of focus, but certainly someone could do a side-by-side screencap.

I think it's a good catch. :up:


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)




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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

OK, I guess it's not the right watch, but I think the fact that they prominently showed the watch in that scene is not a coincidence.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

SparkleMotion said:


> I just re-watched that part myself and it looks as though even HD won't be able to READ the watch name, as it was shot out of focus, but certainly someone could do a side-by-side screencap.


Apparently, it's a Nixon watch. And on Nixon's homepage is none other than a big closeup of Milo Ventimiglia. More (very subtle) product placement! http://www.nixonnow.com/za/NNS?PAGE=TEAM_RIDER_PROFILE&TEAM_RIDER.ID=265&MENU_ID=7#

Also, for those that follow the extra-show content (the online comic, Hiro's blog, Zach's myspace page, etc) - there's an amusing new entry on Zach's account: http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...&MyToken=c0d75a8a-49f0-4641-af7f-35566b9f82d3


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

DonRoeber said:


> We know that it's not Peter who blows up IRL; in the dream he didn't have a scar on his face, and when Future Hiro met him on the subway, he said something like "I hardly recognize you without the scar", so clearly, Peter is going to be around for awhile more.


But since he's now saved Claire, perhaps he will heal (from whatever) before getting a scar.


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## alansh (Jan 3, 2003)

Anyone else notice that Jessica seems to have put the money in a _Deal or No Deal_ suitcase?


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## FreakyD (Oct 15, 2004)

Although some people have alluded to it and kind of skirted the issue, I'm surprised no one has thrown this theory out there: At some point in the future (most likely near the end this season), Sylar will catch up to Radioactive Man...and kill him with his usual flair and panache. Sylar will acquire his power to conflagrate at will, except that he lacks control over the power even more than Radioactive Man did (perhaps because, by this point, Sylar's become even more or a raging psychotic. Because he doesn't know how to control this new power, Sylar ends up becoming the big threat that everyone assumed he'd be earlier this season -- the "big bad" he was destined to become.

Remember, destiny guides just about everything on this show. The producers have done a pretty good job of flogging the deceased equine to get that idea across to us.

If this is true, Isaac's painting and Hiro's future experience -- that of a huge mushroom cloud and explosion in NYC, and of a man exploding -- are still on track to happen. The mystery and the beauty of the show will be in seeing how they prevent it, and in looking back to see how many clues we missed along the way.

Peter's dreams are, as many others have suggested, not literal. They are metaphorical in nature - think of them as his 'vision quest'. They're destiny's way of giving him a taste of what to expect and of nudging him in certain directions. His vision of the other heroes in NYC and his vision of Nathan-turned-into-Sylar in the jail cell both foreshadow several future developments:

-- In Nathan becoming Sylar in the first vision, Nathan is being associated with "the dark side of the Force" (i.e., seeming to mark Nathan as leaning toward the bad guys' side)

-- Peter will meet Sylar again (as they were face-to-face in the jail cell)

-- Sylar will be confronted by the heroes in NYC (indicated by the opening shot of Peter's wrist - prominently featuring a watch - and the fact that Peter seems to be wearing a coat almost exactly like Sylar's)

In all this, we still arrive at the point at which the show's producers want us to arrive. We have no idea how this will all turn out, and we'll drive ourselves nuts waiting for it all to unfold.

On this I have one theory from way out in left field. It's been demonstrated that Peter can somehow mimic others' powers with exposure. I believe the exposure has to be close contact. This explains why Peter showed no signs of telekinesis in his showdown with Sylar at the high school, and I theorize that it also explains why Peter appeared to be in poor health in the last episode.

At one point, either HRG or Eden make a point of how Sylar does not look well. I think that Peter's grapple-and-fall exposed him to Sylar's combined power, and now Peter is "not well" in the same way as Sylar. Sylar's accumulation of brains or powers or continued use of his own "I can fix it" power has a deleterious cumulative effect on both the body and the mind, which explains Sylar's raving psychosis and gaunt appearance. When Peter got up close and personal with Sylar, he got a whiff of what Sylar's been brewing.

My theory is that this will lead to the showdown in NYC. Peter, being the one hero who could use more than one power, will indeed be the one throwing down with Sylar. Peter will use the combined power of the other heroes to defeat Sylar, but not in the way you might think. Peter will end up turning Sylar's own power against him.

After Sylar has acquired Radioactive Man's nuke juice, Peter will kill Sylar the same way Sylar has killed his victims. He'll then use the "I can fix it" mojo to acquire the nuke juice. The difference is that Peter will be able to control the power, at least long enough to keep himself from turning NYC into a giant George Foreman grill. My theory is that he will then die from the combined physical and psychic shock of all these events, leaving the rest of the heroes to carry on into Season 2 and continue to do good works.

*** I have an alternate theory, but one I just like because it's wacked (consider this my version of a Scooby Doo ending). Peter acquires the mojo juice but *can't* control it after all. To save NYC, Hiro teleports both himself and Peter back in time to before the formation of the universe, where Peter explodes just after Hiro teleports back to present-day NYC.

Yeah, that's right. It turns out that Peter is the cause of the Big Bang! Talk about the ultimate time travel paradox!


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## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

Regarding those questioning whether Sylar killed Chandra Suresh...before Eden goes in to confront Sylar, doesn't she say something about "taking care of the man who killed Suresh?"


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## FreakyD (Oct 15, 2004)

smickola said:


> Regarding those questioning whether Sylar killed Chandra Suresh...before Eden goes in to confront Sylar, doesn't she say something about "taking care of the man who killed Suresh?"


As she's talking to Mohinder on the phone, apologizing for misleading him and promising to come clean to him, she closes the conversation with, "First I need to make things right...starting with killing the man who murdered your father."


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

FreakyD said:


> *** I have an alternate theory, but one I just like because it's wacked (consider this my version of a Scooby Doo ending). Peter acquires the mojo juice but *can't* control it after all. To save NYC, Hiro teleports both himself and Peter back in time to before the formation of the universe, where Peter explodes just after Hiro teleports back to present-day NYC.
> 
> Yeah, that's right. It turns out that Peter is the cause of the Big Bang! Talk about the ultimate time travel paradox!


So, they go back 3,000 years in the past. Ummm... (Intelligent Design Jab)

Actually, I like your original time line. I could see all the heros behind peter giveing him the combined mojo. Pretty cool setup.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

alansh said:


> Anyone else notice that Jessica seems to have put the money in a _Deal or No Deal_ suitcase?


You know what...I was rewatching it yesterday and I said the exact same thing. I wondered if that borrowed the case for the DOND set.


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## SparkleMotion (Feb 2, 2004)

Why is Claire still wearing her cheerleader outfit in NYC?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

The theory that sylar was who would blow up was proposed at least by me and probably several others the episode they introduced nuclear man. Previous to that we assumed it was sylar anyway but didn't know the exact nature of it. Thanks for catching up. 

If peter goes to new york and sylar is there with nuclear powers, why wouldn't peter get them too? Of course, if peter is near sylar he should be able to figure things out too, thus he would theoretically be in perfect control of the sylar stolen power just as sylar would be.


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## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

I dunno, I'm not convinced about any of these theories about Peter and blowing up NYC. Why are we going away from the obvious - that the nuclear dude will be the one to stop? Peter's vision isn't conclusive or decisive enough for me. 

I'll say this, it wouldn't surprise me if we next see nuclear guy with a close up of his watch and it be - wait for it - the same Nixon Peter was wearing in the vision! 

In i guess support of the the Peter/nuke theory - Nuclear guy blows OTHER things up, not himself. So even if Peter is indeed the guy who absorbs those powers and accidentally blows up NYC, it doesn't necessarily mean he dies, and therefore, the meeting w/ future Hiro and discussion about the scar could be legit - perhaps a nasty scar from the nuke?

ugh. i guess i just talked myself into a circle. I don't know which way it's going to go, but i'm not as convinced as some of you here. Either way, I'm enjoying the ride.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I'm not "convinced" but I think it's silly to look at peter's vision and somehow assume it means that sylar will blow things up. It either means something we don't know or it means peter blows things up. Anything else is wild speculation. Outside of the vision peter had, it seemed like Sylar was to blame based on the structure of the story thus far, or nuclear guy himself was to blame (once he was introduced).

So ultimately, yes, we don't know.


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## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

Why would Sylar want Radioactive Man's powers in the first place? They just don't seem worth it, unless he wants all the powers he can get cuz he's a freak. And is Radioactive Man's name on Suresh's list? If not Sylar won't be able to find him.

And why has nobody postulated the theory that Radioactive Man blows up while Sylar is trying to steal his powers (apologies to anyone who may have posed this theory)? It seems logical to me that they get in some sort of scrum and dude blows up.


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

He does not appear to be on The List, at least what we can see of it.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Radioactive man's powers would be very useful. If he could control them. I'm sure radioactive guy could learn to, and certainly sylar could since he's the king of "figuring out how stuff works".


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

SparkleMotion said:


> Why is Claire still wearing her cheerleader outfit in NYC?


Because she's a dirty, dirty girl.

Uh...... IBIMB.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

busyba said:


> Because she's a dirty, dirty girl.
> 
> Uh...... IBIMB.


She's 17.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

IndyJones1023 said:


> She's 17.


And I live in New York, so that's okay.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

I'm moving then.


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## SparkleMotion (Feb 2, 2004)

After what you guys've seen Mr. Bennett do to someone who's hurt her? 


Braver men than I am, Gunga Dins!


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I don't get the no reruns policy on some of these shows. I watched the Lost reruns last year and probably will watch Heros reruns if they're on in January. You miss so much on these shows, and it's fun to look for clues you missed after you know what happens. Also, sometimes people come in late and want to watch reruns to catch up. Downloading episodes online doesn't work for those of us still back in the stone age with a dial up modem. 

The thing I do hate is those stupid "recap" episodes that are listed as "new."


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

The problem with reruns in shows like this is there isn't enough time to do them all, and if they do just a few then they have no shot at getting new viewers. That's why the clip shows are so perfect...new viewers can get caught up, and old viewers can either refresh their memories or ignore them (my strategy). Everybody wins.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I agree that clip shows are good--what I hate is that they are represented as a new episode in the listings. You get psyched to watch and then disappointed.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

stellie93 said:


> I agree that clip shows are good--what I hate is that they are represented as a new episode in the listings. You get psyched to watch and then disappointed.


Well, to be fair, I've never seen one that wasn't pretty obvious from the Guide Data. So I've never been disappointed.


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## PeternJim (Sep 25, 2004)

Regarding Hiro and the Dinosaur, I think we are absolutely going to see that scene again, but that it will somehow have nothing to do with a live dinosaur. Hiro tracking Sylar through a museum or theme park, yes, an accidental trip to the Jurassic, no. 
Remember, not only do the writers delight in giving us hints that don't play out quite the way we thought they would, but that Hiro and Ando are also to a degree a big source of lightness (I wouldn't really say "comic relief" because that's not accurate), and having Hiro breathe a sigh of relief that he is only facing a giant model would be a cute moment -- just before he gets jumped, of course.


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## PeternJim (Sep 25, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Eden HAD to turn off the super-power-turner-offer so she could use her super-power on Sylar. But his super-power-fu was stronger...


That's odd. I didn't assume it was a super-power-turner-offer, just a security lock. I didn't get the feeling that she WAS planning to use her powers on Sylar. She did say earlier to HRG that she COULD have him kill himself, but I figured that she just planned to shoot him. If there was a turner-offer, how dumb was she to shut it down, when her powers weren't needed and she had a gun.

Either way. Dumb move. Exceptional presence of mind to shoot herself when she realized she messed up, though.


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## PeternJim (Sep 25, 2004)

speedcouch said:


> I don't think anyone has mentioned about when DL was shot. The second shot, he was able to "pass" through himself. But not the first one. Is that because he didn't see it coming? Otherwise, a bit of an inconsistency there.


His powers can't be on all the time, or he couldn't drive cars or carry things or touch Micah.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

PeternJim said:


> That's odd. I didn't assume it was a super-power-turner-offer, just a security lock. I didn't get the feeling that she WAS planning to use her powers on Sylar. She did say earlier to HRG that she COULD have him kill himself, but I figured that she just planned to shoot him. If there was a turner-offer, how dumb was she to shut it down, when her powers weren't needed and she had a gun.
> 
> Either way. Dumb move. Exceptional presence of mind to shoot herself when she realized she messed up, though.


Actually, she specifically used her power to suggest Sylar kill _himself_ with the gun. That's why her voice sounded weird when shes said "kill yourself with this gun."


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## PeternJim (Sep 25, 2004)

I am really intriged by the cast of characters in Peter's dream, and I think we are going to find that it is very important. At first it was easy to think of it as just "the cast" but then I got to thinking. It does not include Sylar or the radioactive guy, or Claire's dad. It does, however include Simone, Ando, and Mohinder, all of whom we are currently supposed to think don't have any powers.
The whole thing just looked way too carefully crafted for any of the details to be insignificant. Isaac pulling Simone away from him, Claire being "sorry", everyone but Nathan running away, but Nathan running toward.
I took the otherwise evacuated New York to indicate that the people we saw were the important ones.


----------



## PeternJim (Sep 25, 2004)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Actually, she specifically used her power to suggest Sylar kill _himself_ with the gun. That's why her voice sounded weird when shes said "kill yourself with this gun."


By golly, you're right. This show is so amazing on what tiny details I pick up and what major points I miss. Definitely a watch it over and over again show.

We'll have to definitely rewatch everything before the new ones come out in January.

Okay, while I don't think there was a power-turner-offer other than the Haitian, I withdraw my earlier comment about Eden not planning on using her powers. In that case, she should have started with *scary voice* "You won't use your powers against me" and gone from there. Otherwise why would she think a serial killer wasn't going to take her out?


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

PeternJim said:


> Okay, while I don't think there was a power-turner-offer other than the Haitian, I withdraw my earlier comment about Eden not planning on using her powers. In that case, she should have started with *scary voice* "You won't use your powers against me" and gone from there. Otherwise why would she think a serial killer wasn't going to take her out?


For that matter, it seems foolhardy for her to have taken a gun into the room in the first place. Rather than doing something like that, after your suggested first command ("You won't use your powers against me") she could have just said something like "Stop Breathing." Hindsight...



Spoiler



Her ability to do something along these lines is supported by the online comic, where she yells "I wish you'd just die!" at her stepmother, and 'her stepmother's heart certainly listened, and stopped pumping the instant the command was uttered': http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/novel_009.shtml


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Or she could have gotten some poisonous gas and released it into his cage. Overall a really stupid plan on her part.

So here comes the gross question. If the cheerleader is a virgin physically, would she always be one?


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

FreakyD said:


> Although some people have alluded to it and kind of skirted the issue, I'm surprised no one has thrown this theory out there: At some point in the future (most likely near the end this season), Sylar will catch up to Radioactive Man...and kill him with his usual flair and panache. Sylar will acquire his power to conflagrate at will, except that he lacks control over the power even more than Radioactive Man did (perhaps because, by this point, Sylar's become even more or a raging psychotic. Because he doesn't know how to control this new power, Sylar ends up becoming the big threat that everyone assumed he'd be earlier this season -- the "big bad" he was destined to become.


A fine theory, except it assumes that Sylar would have little or no control of the power. Contrary to that is the evidence in the show that Sylar exhibits significantly _more_ control of the powers that he acquires.

And did anyone notice the "Johnny Storm" painting in Isaac's room? Is that radioactive man, or another hero with different powers?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

classicX said:


> A fine theory, except it assumes that Sylar would have no control of the power. Contrary to that is the evidence in the show that Sylar exhibits significantly _more_ control of the powers that he acquires.
> 
> And did anyone notice the "Johnny Storm" painting in Isaac's room? Is that radioactive man, or another hero with different powers?


He said something about a guy who blows up in the episode, I assume it was nuclear man.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

PeternJim said:


> Regarding Hiro and the Dinosaur...Remember, not only do the writers delight in giving us hints that don't play out quite the way we thought they would,


Except that every single one of Isaac's paitings has come true in exactly the way that he painted it. I don't recall if there was enough detail in the background of the painting to know if it could be a false "set" like in the lobby of a museum. It certainly seemed Jurassic to me.


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

Zevida said:


> Except that every single one of Isaac's paitings has come true in exactly the way that he painted it. I don't recall if there was enough detail in the background of the painting to know if it could be a false "set" like in the lobby of a museum. It certainly seemed Jurassic to me.


There was a reddish background, but little or no detail outside of Hiro and the dinosaur (or whatever). It could easily have been a model somewhere -- or a real dinosaur. (The snout was too rounded to be an accurate representation of a T-Rex, though.) The problem I have with it being a model is that it might well be a dramatic letdown. The painting makes viewers believe that Hiro will be fighting a dinosaur, and this impression is given added weight by the fact that it's done as the "mid-season finale" for Hiro's arc. If it turns out that it's a painting of Hiro just strolling through a museum, then it becomes a letdown. Of course, if it's something like Sylar animating a dinosaur model, or even if the scene is charged enough (a big and important chase, say), then it might not be a letdown. We'll just have to wait and see what it turns out to be....


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

PeternJim said:


> That's odd. I didn't assume it was a super-power-turner-offer, just a security lock.


As I've posted before, to hold somebody like Sylar, HRG's organization would _need_ extraordinary facilities. In principle, they could use somebody with power-suppression capabilities (such as many think the Haitian has), but they'd need a team of such people -- no one person could remain awake and alert enough to suppress Sylar's powers 24/7. They could keep Sylar drugged (essentially in a coma) all the time, but they didn't seem to be doing that. The only other alternative (short of killing him) that I see is a power-suppression technology. HRG implied that they had this when he told Sylar that his powers wouldn't work when he was in the cell.



> I figured that she just planned to shoot him. If there was a turner-offer, how dumb was she to shut it down, when her powers weren't needed and she had a gun.


Presumably Eden had access to the cell's antechamber and to the power-suppression equipment, but not to the cell proper. They'd established earlier in the episode that there was a slot for food through which Eden would pass the gun, so she could give him the gun, command him to kill himself, and he'd die at his own hand. Without access to the cell proper, she couldn't just go in and shoot him. Perhaps she feared that poison gas (or poison in his food) would act too slowly and be detected and its effects reversed before Sylar died. At least, this is what I've inferred from Eden's actions and what we've seen of the layout. With hindsight, as others have pointed out, other plans might have worked better.

Oh, one other point: Ordering Sylar to stop breathing, while perhaps a good plan given Eden's powers (and a plan that would leave fewer clues pointing to her as Sylar's killer), would have left her with no way to kill herself once Sylar turned the tables on her. The writers couldn't allow that!


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Perhaps Hiro manages to take whatever/whoever is blowing up in NYC back in time to the Jurassic age where it explodes leading to the extinction of the dinosaurs, et. al.


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

dswallow said:


> Perhaps Hiro manages to take whatever/whoever is blowing up in NYC back in time to the Jurassic age where it explodes leading to the extinction of the dinosaurs, et. al.


I think that is a cool idea! I don't know if the writers would go that far in messing with existing history for the show. But you never know.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I'm not sure you could really oder someone to not breathe anyway. You'd have to order him to hang himself with his belt or something. Unless eden's power was/is so powerful that it can cause the mind to do things the mind normally couldn't.


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> I'm not sure you could really oder someone to not breathe anyway. You'd have to order him to hang himself with his belt or something. Unless eden's power was/is so powerful that it can cause the mind to do things the mind normally couldn't.


One of the online comics addresses this question:



Spoiler



Eden discovered her power when she blurted out "I wish you'd just die," or words to that effect, to her stepmother, who proceeded to keel over dead. Given that the comics are supposed to be canon, this is pretty solid proof that Eden could have killed Sylar just by ordering him to die (at least, assuming he's not immune to her power).


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

FWIW, there was a "Heroes" reference on the 12/7 "Daily Show with Jon Stewart" on Comedy Central. Nothing big -- just a (somewhat weak) joke at the start of the show. There are one or two more repeats of this episode today, if anybody cares to catch it.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

srs5694 said:


> One of the online comics addresses this question:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah... but,



Spoiler



Maybe not by telling him to stop breathing. People can have heart attacks and strokes under enough stress. I don't think anyone can force themself to stop breathing because the mind would go unconscious at some point


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

rkester said:


> I think that is a cool idea! I don't know if the writers would go that far in messing with existing history for the show. But you never know.


That wouldn't necessarily be messing with existing history. We don't know for sure what caused the dinosaurs to go extinct. One theory is that it was a large metor strike that caused a dust cloud to envelop the earth and block out the sun. No reason why that dust cloud couldn't have gone up because of Radioactive Man exploding and bringing about a "nuclear winter".

It's like in "Star Trek IV" when they were giving the guy the formula for Transparent Aluminium. As Scotty said, "how do you know he isn't the one who invented it?"


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I doubt nuclear man's nuke would be enough to destroy life on earth like a giant meteor. But you never know. That would be one incredible nuke.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

srs5694 said:


> It could easily have been a model somewhere -- or a real dinosaur. (The snout was too rounded to be an accurate representation of a T-Rex, though.) . . . We'll just have to wait and see what it turns out to be....


It's worth noting, as well, that sitting next to Hiro's clock in his office cubicle in Japan were two toys: a small toy figure brandishing a sword at a larger toy godzilla standing next to it.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

danterner said:


> It's worth noting, as well, that sitting next to Hiro's clock in his office cubicle in Japan were two toys: a small toy figure brandishing a sword at a larger toy godzilla standing next to it.


Nice catch.


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## Royster (May 24, 2002)

PeternJim said:


> His powers can't be on all the time, or he couldn't drive cars or carry things or touch Micah.


Actually, I thought it was pretty strange how he put his hand through the door but was still able to turn the lock from the inside. I'd always assumed he was able to make himself physically transparent to other objects, but maybe he's able to make the other objects transparent to him. Perhaps that was th point of the odd looking CGI when he put his hand through the door -- he was dipping a hand into a temporarily non-solid door.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Royster said:


> Actually, I thought it was pretty strange how he put his hand through the door but was still able to turn the lock from the inside. I'd always assumed he was able to make himself physically transparent to other objects, but maybe he's able to make the other objects transparent to him. Perhaps that was th point of the odd looking CGI when he put his hand through the door -- he was dipping a hand into a temporarily non-solid door.


He doesn't change transparency, he changes his body's density so that he can pass through objects, and they can pass through him. That's how the second bullet went through him.


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

Yes, nice catch! And... the beast on his display is also the one on the 2nd page of Chapter 8's comic too.


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## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

Mikkel_Knight said:


> Also, it'll be interesting to find out who killed Chandra. I don't think it was Sylar... I think it's going to end up being HRG or the organization he works for... Although, I suppose it could be Sylar who became overzealous in showing off his newly acquired power(s) to Chandra and it was an accident.


This was touched on earlier but I wanted to add my 2 cents.

There was a dream sequence with Mohinder and the boy that showed Chandra being killed. In that scene you couldn't see Sylar but you could clearly see his watch with the broken crystal when he reached from the back seat to kill Chandra.


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

busyba said:


> That wouldn't necessarily be messing with existing history. We don't know for sure what caused the dinosaurs to go extinct. One theory is that it was a large metor strike that caused a dust cloud to envelop the earth and block out the sun. No reason why that dust cloud couldn't have gone up because of Radioactive Man exploding and bringing about a "nuclear winter".


Well, from a strictly scientific point of view this wouldn't work -- there's too much evidence pointing to an extraterrestrial source of that particular explosion (radioisotopes that are rare except in certain extraterrestrial sources but that appear worldwide in a thin layer at the KT boundary, for instance). Of course, as Heroes is basically fantasy (or perhaps very soft science fiction), I wouldn't cry "foul" if they decided to have Hiro transport Sprague (or whoever causes the explosion) back 65 million years and have this be the explanation for the dinosaurs' extinction. It would certainly make the saying "save the cheerleader, save the world" make more sense, since NYC alone hardly qualifies as "the world." If the nuke that went off in NYC could become the dinosaur killer, though, it's plausible that it could have caused a nuclear winter and subsequent extinction or near-extinction of humanity. OTOH, a superpowered but more normal-sized (for a nuke) nuking of NYC could have triggered other events, such as a full-out nuclear war, which could have subsequently killed most of humanity.

FWIW, something like this idea has been done before. In the _Doctor Who_ episode "Earthshock" (1982), a spaceship loaded with bombs and set to crash on and therefore destroy all human life on Earth ends up spiralling back in time and causing the extinction of the dinosaurs. This episode was written after the theory about an asteroid or comet causing the extinction had become quite respectable, but before we knew as much about the event as we know today.


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## Royster (May 24, 2002)

srs5694 said:


> Well, from a strictly scientific point of view this wouldn't work -- there's too much evidence pointing to an extraterrestrial source of that particular explosion (radioisotopes that are rare except in certain extraterrestrial sources but that appear worldwide in a thin layer at the KT boundary, for instance).


Who knows, maybe Radioactive Guy is just loaded with iridium. In fact, recent scholarship is pointing away from Chixiclub in the Yucatan as being the final death blow for the dinosaurs.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

dswallow said:


> Perhaps Hiro manages to take whatever/whoever is blowing up in NYC back in time to the Jurassic age where it explodes leading to the extinction of the dinosaurs, et. al.


I like the theory...But Hiro was so worried about stepping on a bug and doing something to wipe out mankind or something, would he really take the risk of taking a nuclear man that's about to explode back to the jurasic age?


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

unicorngoddess said:


> I like the theory...But Hiro was so worried about stepping on a bug and doing something to wipe out mankind or something, would he really take the risk of taking a nuclear man that's about to explode back to the jurasic age?


I see it this way. Hiro doesn't always have total control over his abilities. And, if he were in a panicked state, he could possibly grab the radioactive guy and just "go" somewhere in hopes of saving NY. I figure if he thinks he goes back far enough before man and the city are there, while panicked therefore not necessarily thinking straight, he might end up in dinosaur times. Just an idea.


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## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> This was touched on earlier but I wanted to add my 2 cents.
> 
> There was a dream sequence with Mohinder and the boy that showed Chandra being killed. In that scene you couldn't see Sylar but you could clearly see his watch with the broken crystal when he reached from the back seat to kill Chandra.


mentioned here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4642308#post4642308

and smeeked here

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4642430&#post4642430

it's the first time i've been smeeked, let alone twice in the same thread... i feel special


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

rkester said:


> I see it this way. Hiro doesn't always have total control over his abilities. And, if he were in a panicked state, he could possibly grab the radioactive guy and just "go" somewhere in hopes of saving NY. I figure if he thinks he goes back far enough before man and the city are there, while panicked therefore not necessarily thinking straight, he might end up in dinosaur times. Just an idea.


Has it ever been shown that he could take someone else along when he transports? Besides his cloths and possessions (sword, a few poker ships) have we ever seen him take anything with him?


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

milo99 said:


> mentioned here:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4642308#post4642308
> 
> and smeeked here
> ...


And I even mentioned it a few posts before yours.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

unicorngoddess said:


> And I even mentioned it a few posts before yours.


And Hiro came up with it first, a few posts later...


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## SparkleMotion (Feb 2, 2004)

Church AV Guy said:


> Has it ever been shown that he could take someone else along when he transports? Besides his cloths and possessions (sword, a few poker ships) have we ever seen him take anything with him?


It seemed as though Future Hiro pulled Peter out of his time-moment when he contacted him. Not QUITE the same as taking someone along, but we'll see in time (no pun intended).


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I really have read every single post in this thread, and I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet. I loved it when Hiro and Ando were debating the "Save the cheerleader - Save the world" and if it was an "if, then" statement, or just a first, then. I loved the captioning:

Hiro: "Save the cheerleader, save the world."
Ando: "Save the cheerleader." Then "Save the world."

Sounds like something that's been debated here!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And Hiro came up with it first, a few posts later...


:up:


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## PeternJim (Sep 25, 2004)

Careful what you ask for -- if the Hiro and the Dinosaur thing is Hiro with a real, live, breathing dinosaur, it is GOING to be the season finale cliffhanger -- and you'll have to wait all summer for the resolution!


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## Royster (May 24, 2002)

SparkleMotion said:


> It seemed as though Future Hiro pulled Peter out of his time-moment when he contacted him. Not QUITE the same as taking someone along, but we'll see in time (no pun intended).


But, was that because Hiro has this ability or because of *Peter's* ability?


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## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

Royster said:


> But, was that because Hiro has this ability or because of *Peter's* ability?


Well, I don't think future Hiro would have travelled back in time to talk to Peter if he didn't think he could actually, you know, talk to him. 

However, Peter did walk past Hiro twice in that car before he stood up and announced his presence. So that is really what's throwing me off on the whole thing. Unless they do it together at some later date, and future Hiro knows that it's possible.


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## TheGreyOwl (Aug 18, 2003)

Royster said:


> Actually, I thought it was pretty strange how he put his hand through the door but was still able to turn the lock from the inside. I'd always assumed he was able to make himself physically transparent to other objects, but maybe he's able to make the other objects transparent to him. Perhaps that was th point of the odd looking CGI when he put his hand through the door -- he was dipping a hand into a temporarily non-solid door.


I assumed that he could change the density of different parts of his body at different times. So he changed the whole hand and arm to get it through the door, then just made the finger/hand solid so he could turn the lock (without affecting the rest of the arm).


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## PeternJim (Sep 25, 2004)

TheGreyOwl said:


> I assumed that he could change the density of different parts of his body at different times. So he changed the whole hand and arm to get it through the door, then just made the finger/hand solid so he could turn the lock (without affecting the rest of the arm).


And remember, we've seen him stick his hand through things, and walk through things without falling through floors or porches, so that works somehow, too.


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## PeternJim (Sep 25, 2004)

We've been talking for a long time about whether HRG is good or evil, whether he has a secret agenda or is just trying to protect Claire, etc.

Watching this episode for the first time, it occurs to me that the people he is trying to protect Claire from are the ones he works for. She can't be on the list, other people, even her own family, (and even Claire herself, if he really ordered the Haitian to make her forget her powers) can't know about her. He didn't release Isaac, Eden did, so he may have planned to erase him before letting him go (if he was going to.) I think it's his bosses who can't know about her, because of whatever their plans for the Heroes are.

And, maybe the Haitian didn't erase Claire because he is at heart a good guy, or maybe he's already told HRG's bosses about her, and they don't want her erased.


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## SparkleMotion (Feb 2, 2004)

Royster said:


> But, was that because Hiro has this ability or because of *Peter's* ability?


That begs the question "Is Peter's ability MORE than that of mimicking other's abilities". I don't think it is. We shall see...I get the feeling they plan on answering MOST of the questions they've conjured up in the first season before the year is out. Hopefully (and rightfully) a FEW questions will be on the table for next season...but by then, I sort of hope they'll be organized and almost a sort of "real life" Justice League with a whole different approach to the show.

Not that there's anything wrong with where they are now...it's AWESOME, IMO. But by season 2, I'd think the "Heroes" would be solidified into a group and working together on a regular basis.

Krink may have other plans, though. And that would be fine with me as well.

In EW this week, the guy who plays Hiro says the perfect Christmas gift from the character would be the "Heroes" season one DVD set. He then points out, "...from FUTURE Hiro, anyway". He also wants to give current Hiro one of those talking translator devices.


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

johnperkins21 said:


> Peter did walk past Hiro twice in that car before he stood up and announced his presence. So that is really what's throwing me off on the whole thing.


I don't recall seeing Hiro sitting in that car. If he was, then I'm obviously wrong on this, but.... I do recall hearing a series of bangs just before Hiro appeared, as if somebody was walking around _on top of_ the subway car. My hypothesis is this: Future-Hiro knew, from talking to Peter in the future, that Peter was on the subway (perhaps even what subway car) at such-and-such a time on a particular day. So Future-Hiro teleports back in time and waits on a convenient subway platform until he sees that subway car go past. He then freezes time, jumps onto the tracks, catches up to the train, climbs on top of it, walks forward until he finds Peter, and then gets inside. (Perhaps he teleports in but couldn't do so from a greater distance for some reason, or maybe he knows some stealthy but more conventional way to enter a subway car.) Peter isn't frozen in time because he was close enough to Hiro when the train passed the subway platform to absorb/mimic Future-Hiro's powers, at least enough to not be frozen with everybody else. When he's done chatting, Hiro teleports away (perhaps directly to the future, or maybe not), which has the added effect of releasing the time-freeze.


----------



## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

PeternJim said:


> Regarding Hiro and the Dinosaur, I think we are absolutely going to see that scene again, but that it will somehow have nothing to do with a live dinosaur. Hiro tracking Sylar through a museum or theme park, yes, an accidental trip to the Jurassic, no.


Hiro tried to go back for a "do-over" once and it didn't work, but it didn't actually cause any bad side-effects. I don't see why everyone's creating these elaborate theories for how this dinosaur can be fake, or a season finale, or something. My guess is Hiro will be trying to go back for another "do-over" and again will go back _way_ farther than he intends (last time one day became six months). He gets into a panic, briefly faces down a dinosaur (enough to get that shot, but not much more, to save the show's budget), then runs in terror and ends up back in the present. After this, he concludes that attempts to go back in time are risky and ineffective, and may cause "rifts". Don't see why we need to assume anything more than that.



srs5694 said:


> FWIW, something like this idea has been done before. In the _Doctor Who_ episode "Earthshock" (1982)...


Douglas Adams also played with this kind of idea in _Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency_.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Zevida said:


> I really have read every single post in this thread, and I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet. I loved it when Hiro and Ando were debating the "Save the cheerleader - Save the world" and if it was an "if, then" statement, or just a first, then. I loved the captioning:
> 
> Hiro: "Save the cheerleader, save the world."
> Ando: "Save the cheerleader." Then "Save the world."
> ...


Yeah I liked it too and thus I said so in post 80 something of this thread.


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## SparkleMotion (Feb 2, 2004)

Hunter Green said:


> Douglas Adams also played with this kind of idea in _Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency_.


Recently adapted into a play starring Jim Ward in Los Angeles. (Titled simply "Dirk".) :up:


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Yeah I liked it too and thus I said so in post 80 something of this thread.


Apologies  I really do read every single post but I guess it all starts blending together after a while.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

If Sylar can recover from a 5 story fall, and he claims that a gun isn't going to work on him, why the hell did he need jailbait's healing power in the first place? 

Thankfully the pace of the show has begun to pick up., except for when Ali Larter shows up. Those three need to get killed right quick.


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## Fraser+Dief (Nov 18, 2005)

Vroomfondel said:


> Wow, 90 posts and still no-one has mentioned the bad CG when DL put his hand through the door!


Looked fine to me.

Add me to the "I'll be pissed if Eden is dead" list. I *hate* *hate *hate* that shows keep killing off multiple characters we like. Definitely one reason Lost is going downhill.


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## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

srs5694 said:


> I don't recall seeing Hiro sitting in that car. If he was, then I'm obviously wrong on this, but.... I do recall hearing a series of bangs just before Hiro appeared, as if somebody was walking around _on top of_ the subway car.


Well, at the end of Episode 4, they don't show Hiro in the car. However, at the beginning of Episode 5, they pan past Hiro standing frozen in the car with Peter walking around, right before he turns around to see Future Hiro. There are definitely sounds as Peter walks back and looks up towards the roof of the car, but the timing doesn't fit for it to be Hiro, especially since it sounds more like someone or something jumping on top of the car, not walking on it.

They just really did a bad job with that scene, especially since they reshot it for Episode 5 and the dialog didn't match. I wish they would have shot it once, maybe it would shed more light on how it happened, but there is zero chance of Future Hiro travelling back at the exact time in the exact spot to land right on top of that moving car. No way in heck Peter remembers the exact time that happened or where exactly in that tunnel they were.

And since Future Hiro did say (in Ep. 4, not 5) "Peter Petrelli. I'm sorry if I scared you. You look different without your scar." It could mean that he didn't recognize him at first and didn't want to show himself unless he was sure it was Peter. Again, could all be solved if they had just done a better job with that scene. And by better job, I mean not making it so f'ing vague.

Here's a screencap of Hiro standing in the car, with Peter just out of view. Sorry it's blurry but it's hard to get good screencaps off of NBC.com:









And here's the two episodes:
Episode 4: Collison (in part 6) 
Episode 5: Hiro's

P.S. Eden is definitely dead.


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

johnperkins21 said:


> Well, at the end of Episode 4, they don't show Hiro in the car. However, at the beginning of Episode 5, they pan past Hiro standing frozen in the car with Peter walking around, right before he turns around to see Future Hiro.


That certainly does look like future-Hiro, which just raises the question of what was stomping around outside. Maybe that was intentional (future-Peter was outside, maybe?), but it doesn't play like one of the usual "clues" they give.



> there is zero chance of Future Hiro travelling back at the exact time in the exact spot to land right on top of that moving car


That's not what I suggested. I'd say you should re-read my earlier post, but it's all moot now, since Hiro seems to have been in the subway car at the time of the noises.


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## SparkleMotion (Feb 2, 2004)

Fraser+Dief said:


> Add me to the "I'll be pissed if Eden is dead" list. I *hate* *hate *hate* that shows keep killing off multiple characters we like. Definitely one reason Lost is going downhill.


That was a helluva lot of SOMEONE'S blood!


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## PeternJim (Sep 25, 2004)

Is the question whether Eden is dead or alive, or whether it was Eden or Sylar that was shot? I think if the latter, the previews at the end give a clue to that.


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## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

srs5694 said:


> That's not what I suggested. I'd say you should re-read my earlier post, but it's all moot now, since Hiro seems to have been in the subway car at the time of the noises.


I did re-read your post, and agree that your hypothesis of Hiro waiting at a stop, then freezing time and hopping on would work, but that's just not the way the scene played out. It went like this. Time slowed down until it stopped. Peter looked around and then walked to the back of the car, looked out the window and pounded on it. Then he walked back towards Mohinder and the front of the car, noises on top of the car, like someone, or something jumping on it. He trips, catches himself and continues to walk back to the front of the car. Camera looks over his right shoulder, very blurry background, pans across his face to his left shoulder and Future Hiro is standing there.

So, from the sequence of events they showed, there seem to be two possibilities. Future Hiro was on the car the whole time, or he froze time and teleported to a foot or so above the moving train causing him to fall on top of it. And if that happened, he certainly got into the car really, really quickly.


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## PeternJim (Sep 25, 2004)

The noises on the top of the subway car must have been that damn dinosaur again, pursuing him through time!


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

PeternJim said:


> Regarding Hiro and the Dinosaur, I think we are absolutely going to see that scene again, but that it will somehow have nothing to do with a live dinosaur. Hiro tracking Sylar through a museum or theme park, yes, an accidental trip to the Jurassic, no.
> Remember, not only do the writers delight in giving us hints that don't play out quite the way we thought they would, but that Hiro and Ando are also to a degree a big source of lightness (I wouldn't really say "comic relief" because that's not accurate), and having Hiro breathe a sigh of relief that he is only facing a giant model would be a cute moment -- just before he gets jumped, of course.


How about Sylar using his telekinesis to control the dinosaur model in said museum?


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

johnperkins21 said:


> Well, I don't think future Hiro would have travelled back in time to talk to Peter if he didn't think he could actually, you know, talk to him.
> 
> However, Peter did walk past Hiro twice in that car before he stood up and announced his presence. So that is really what's throwing me off on the whole thing. Unless they do it together at some later date, and future Hiro knows that it's possible.


Peter is currently unable to control the abilities he mimicks (with the exception of Isaac's futuresight) - they just get turned on (i.e. with Matt Parkman - Matt can sort of control who / when he listens, maybe even probe minds, but Peter started hearing thoughts with no control; also with Claire and Nathan).

Obviously future Peter may have told Hiro this, and Hiro knew that Peter wouldn't be affected by the time dilation in that specific time.

It's probably also why Hiro waited for a while on the train before coming forward - he may have been waiting to be sure that Peter had absorbed his powers first.

Which begs the question: as Peter gets more powerful, shouldn't he be able to detect other heroes around him and their power, like that girl from X-Men The Last Stand?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Wow....282 posts and I don't see one mentioning Sylar's new nickname -- "Brainman". Hiro or Ando gave that to him.

Also, not very consequential in the light of most of this discussion -- did anyone notice the slip when Micah was tossed to the ground by "Jessica"? When she went over to him as "Nikki", he had a leaf dangling from his hair. Then they cut to a shot from behind Micah, and the leaf was gone. Then they cut to a shot from behind Nikki, and the leaf was back.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> Wow....282 posts and I don't see one mentioning Sylar's new nickname -- "Brainman". Hiro or Ando gave that to him.
> 
> Also, not very consequential in the light of most of this discussion -- did anyone notice the slip when Micah was tossed to the ground by "Jessica"? When she went over to him as "Nikki", he had a leaf dangling from his hair. Then they cut to a shot from behind Micah, and the leaf was gone. Then they cut to a shot from behind Nikki, and the leaf was back.


I tend to just be praying for Nikki scenes to be over rather than paying much attention to them.

I still want to know why Sylar needs Claire's power? He seems to heal up pretty well on his own.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Figaro said:


> I still want to know why Sylar needs Claire's power? He seems to heal up pretty well on his own.


How so?


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> How so?


Well he took a 5 story fall and walked away from it. He told the pixie the gun wouldn't work on him.


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## PeternJim (Sep 25, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> when Micah was tossed to the ground by "Jessica"? When she went over to him as "Nikki", he had a leaf dangling from his hair. Then they cut to a shot from behind Micah, and the leaf was gone. Then they cut to a shot from behind Nikki, and the leaf was back.


Well, that just proves he is his mother's son. She has a tattoo that comes and goes. Maybe he *has* a leaf when she is Nikki, and *doesn't* when she is Jessica. Or maybe he has two different personalities, too!


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Figaro said:


> Well he took a 5 story fall and walked away from it. He told the pixie the gun wouldn't work on him.


He was actually pretty hurt, or at least it seemed to me that he was. I think he used Peter to break his fall because it definately seemed like Peter took the worst from the fall.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> He was actually pretty hurt, or at least it seemed to me that he was. I think he used Peter to break his fall because it definately seemed like Peter took the worst from the fall.


He was fine a day later.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Figaro said:


> He was fine a day later.


Fine or better? Also, the gun thing, we already knew he had some sort of bullet mojo from a previous episode. They have definitely left it open by not showing us what powers his other victims had, but it seems like they imply he can't fully heal as of yet.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Figaro said:


> He was fine a day later.


The same thing happened to Peter when he was trying to prove that he could fly. He was in the hospital for a day and the next day he was off trying to fly again.


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## SparkleMotion (Feb 2, 2004)

I only just found out. The actor who plays Peter (and used to be Jake on Gilmore Girls) is Rocky Balboa's SON in the new Rocky movie?!?

I mean, I can SEE it physically (especially with his little mouth sneer thing he does) but can he be that desperate for roles?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

SparkleMotion said:


> I only just found out. The actor who plays Peter (and used to be Jake on Gilmore Girls) is Rocky Balboa's SON in the new Rocky movie?!?
> 
> I mean, I can SEE it physically (especially with his little mouth sneer thing he does) but can he be that desperate for roles?


Interesting. I looked at it just the opposite. I thought, "Is Milo Ventimiglia really a big enough name to be playing a leading role in a Rocky movie?"


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

PeternJim said:


> And remember, we've seen him stick his hand through things, and walk through things without falling through floors or porches, so that works somehow, too.


Well, don't forget he passed his hand through Nikki's skin into her body, and choked her into unconsciousness with is hand inside of her. He never broke her skin and didn't have any blood on his hands (that I remember) in the next shot when he removes his hand, so there is a lot more complexity here.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

It seems all the hero's powers appeared to coincide with the eclipse? Then it took a bit for them to develope, at different rates for each of them. What is the connection?


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## PeternJim (Sep 25, 2004)

Church AV Guy said:


> It seems all the hero's powers appeared to coincide with the eclipse? Then it took a bit for them to develope, at different rates for each of them. What is the connection?


I'm going to vote for timing rather than causality. That whatever it was that kicked the powers in just happened to be around that time of the eclipse -- giving the marketing people an iconic image to run with, rather than solar flares causing adult mutations or some such.


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## Fraser+Dief (Nov 18, 2005)

SparkleMotion said:


> That was a helluva lot of SOMEONE'S blood!


Well, when dealing with superheroes, I'm hesitant to speak in absolutes.

But yeah, I'm pretty sure my favourite character is toast. :down:


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Fraser+Dief said:


> I'm pretty sure my favourite character is toast. :down:


Is there a new character that I missed? Someone who can burn bread with just the power of his or her thoughts?!


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

Figaro said:


> I still want to know why Sylar needs Claire's power? He seems to heal up pretty well on his own.


It's possible he can heal more quickly than normal people, but he definitely lacks Claire's full power. Two points make this absolutely clear:


Audrey and Matt found his blood at the scene of his abduction by Eden and the Haitian. If he'd had Claire's powers, he would have healed and there'd be no blood (or maybe just traces from whatever leaked out of his clothes). There were small pools of it at the scene, and I believe somebody commented that he must have lost a lot of blood.
HRG said that Sylar was in pretty bad shape when he was brought in but that he'd been given medical attention while in custody. Such "patching up" would have been unnecessary if he'd had Claire's powers.

As to the gun, he's presumably got some other power that would protect him from that. This might be nothing but his telekinesis -- he might be able to put up a telekinetic "shield" to stop bullets or he might be able to stop Eden from pulling the trigger. (The latter seems unlikely to have been his plan, though, or the gun wouldn't have fired at the end of that scene.) It could also be that he's absorbed some other relevant power that we don't yet know about, such as bullet-invulnerability (which wouldn't work or wouldn't be as effective in protecting against falls) or a D.L.-like ability to become insubstantial. It's also conceivable that he's just lost it and _thinks_ he can't be killed, even though he can be.

Overall, my suspicion is that he can heal no better or more quickly than any ordinary person, although I'm open to the possibility that he's got accelerated (but not Claire-like) healing powers.


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## SparkleMotion (Feb 2, 2004)

The scary thing (to me) about Sylar is that he doesn't LOOK crazed. If you follow me. He looks _determined_ and perhaps obsessed, but he doesn't APPEAR as utterly insane.

Which is cool. And scares the hell outta me. <shudder>


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## stiffi (Jun 14, 2006)

classicX said:


> Peter is currently unable to control the abilities he mimicks (with the exception of Isaac's futuresight) - they just get turned on (i.e. with Matt Parkman - Matt can sort of control who / when he listens, maybe even probe minds, but Peter started hearing thoughts with no control; also with Claire and Nathan).


I think Peter may eventually get control of his powers. I also think they may be getting stronger. His ability to see the future now maybe a result of Isaac being so close to him. I don't know how far Odessa is from Midland, but maybe it's close enough for Peter to use the power.

BTW, is anybody else bothered by the name "The Haitian"? I mean why isn't Hiro "The Japanese Guy" or Peter "The Italian"?

I don't know why, but that really irks me.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

stiffi said:


> ...BTW, is anybody else bothered by the name "The Haitian"?...


No, I'm not. I don't see it as any kind of racial reference, per se. It's more of an identifier...he's kind of a mystery, and, without a name, it makes him more mysterious.


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## robbhimself (Sep 13, 2006)

stiffi said:


> BTW, is anybody else bothered by the name "The Haitian"? I mean why isn't Hiro "The Japanese Guy" or Peter "The Italian"?


well, horn rim glasses is horn rim glasses, so yeah, i agree with the above that it just adds to the mystery of the character..


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

I wonder if Sylar got into the other cheerleader's head before he realized his mistake? Will he be talking vacuously, and start to accessorize?

He is called the Haitian because they know where he came from, but since he has decided not to talk to anyone, they think he cannot speak. If he has not told them his name by writing it down, then they have just come up with a name like "The Haitian" so they can identify him. He has only spoken the Claire, no one else that we know if. Eden said something like, if he could talk, he would agree with me, so she didn't believe he could talk.


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

stiffi said:


> BTW, is anybody else bothered by the name "The Haitian"? I mean why isn't Hiro "The Japanese Guy" or Peter "The Italian"?


The actor appears to have moved up in the world. He was merely "Haitian #1" in some series called "Fastlane" (a show with memorable characters like "Undercover Cop", "Uniformed Officer", and "White Cop #1").


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I dunno, he looks a lot more crazy than Dexter does. Of course, he is more crazy than dexter.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

ping said:


> The actor appears to have moved up in the world. He was merely "Haitian #1" in some series called "Fastlane" (a show with memorable characters like "Undercover Cop", "Uniformed Officer", and "White Cop #1").


Dude, Fastlane was a pretty big show, produced and directed by McG if I'm not mistaken. Sure, it was on FOX on Friday nights, but it was still a big budget campy cheesefest that was actually pretty fun.


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## stiffi (Jun 14, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> No, I'm not. I don't see it as any kind of racial reference, per se. It's more of an identifier...he's kind of a mystery, and, without a name, it makes him more mysterious.


It's not the racial reference, that bothers me, just the general ambiguity. HRG, bothers me too. Even if he can't speak, presumably he could have written his name down for Mr. Bennet at some point. They seem to have been working together for years.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

stiffi said:


> It's not the racial reference, that bothers me, just the general ambiguity. HRG, bothers me too. Even if he can't speak, presumably he could have written his name down for Mr. Bennet at some point. They seem to have been working together for years.


Well, we don't know for sure that HRG doesn't know his name. The only person to call him The Hiatian on the show was Eden.


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## mmilton80 (Jul 28, 2005)

Bierboy said:


> No, I'm not. I don't see it as any kind of racial reference, per se. It's more of an identifier...he's kind of a mystery, and, without a name, it makes him more mysterious.


I think he may be from Haiti. That would make sense. Probably why he got that name.


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

classicX said:


> Is there a new character that I missed? Someone who can burn bread with just the power of his or her thoughts?!


How could you have missed this guy?


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

unicorngoddess said:


> Well, we don't know for sure that HRG doesn't know his name. The only person to call him The Hiatian on the show was Eden.


Actually, Matt Parkman and Ted Sprague referred to him as "the Haitian" in Spraque's interrogation scene. There may have been subsequent references to him in the same manner by Matt Parkman and/or Audrey Hanson, but I don't recall any specific instances, offhand.


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## SparkleMotion (Feb 2, 2004)

Crosspost: Partial holiday downtime plan: Rewatch entire first half season of Heroes! :up:


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## alansh (Jan 3, 2003)

If you don't want to wait for the broadcast marathon, NBC has all 11 episodes online.

Also note, the online comics are continuing. Chapter 12 is up.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

Church AV Guy said:


> I wonder if Sylar got into the other cheerleader's head before he realized his mistake? Will he be talking vacuously, and start to accessorize?


 :up: Nice call.


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## emandbri (Jul 5, 2004)

SparkleMotion said:


> Crosspost: Partial holiday downtime plan: Rewatch entire first half season of Heroes! :up:


+1 !


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

srs5694 said:


> Actually, Matt Parkman and Ted Sprague referred to him as "the Haitian" in Spraque's interrogation scene. There may have been subsequent references to him in the same manner by Matt Parkman and/or Audrey Hanson, but I don't recall any specific instances, offhand.


I didn't catch that...but still, my point was its not like anyone directly referes to him as that. Its not like they pass him in the hall and go Hey Haictian! What's up?"


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

unicorngoddess said:


> I didn't catch that...but still, my point was its not like anyone directly referes to him as that. Its not like they pass him in the hall and go Hey Haictian! What's up?"


The funny thing is... how did they know he was Haitian, since he did not speak to him and wouldn't remember HRG referring to him as such?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

classicX said:


> The funny thing is... how did they know he was Haitian, since he did not speak to him and wouldn't remember HRG referring to him as such?


He wore a "Préval 2006" button?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Speaking of the haitian. Remind me how he knocked out Parkman in the bar? Was that a spiked drink or weird power?


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Don't know if it's been said, but I originally thought that HRG had some sort of dampening power. Until I realized that Nathan flew when HRG and Haitian Guy were standing in front of him. So, to me it looks like HRG's power is that he is immune to the other supers powers. He can't be harmed, but at the same time can't extend that immunity to others. So he could stand in front of Sylar and not be effected, resist mind reading attempts, and be immune to suggestion.


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## Royster (May 24, 2002)

Masi Oka on Jay Leno tonight (Wed 1/3)


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## glumlord (Oct 27, 2003)

On Jay Leno last night they played a clip of the new episode..



Spoiler



They show a scene with Hiro and Nathan Petrelli looking at the painting's and trying to figure out if a man could be the cause of the explosion in the future

Nathan seemed to be a believing and concerned man. I'm starting to get the feeling that perhaps he's just a controlling and protecting brother, because around Hiro he opened up a bit more.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

stiffi said:


> I think Peter may eventually get control of his powers. I also think they may be getting stronger. His ability to see the future now maybe a result of Isaac being so close to him. I don't know how far Odessa is from Midland, but maybe it's close enough for Peter to use the power.
> 
> BTW, is anybody else bothered by the name "The Haitian"? I mean why isn't Hiro "The Japanese Guy" or Peter "The Italian"?
> 
> I don't know why, but that really irks me.


The way I see it we really don't have a name for the silent one and he's been referred to as a haitian. To me it's no different than on x-files when one guy was ferrred to as "the smoking guy."


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Stormspace said:


> The way I see it we really don't have a name for the silent one and he's been referred to as a haitian. To me it's no different than on x-files when one guy was ferrred to as "the smoking guy."


Are you referring to the Cancer Man?


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

classicX said:


> Are you referring to the Cancer Man?


You know, he was referred to by Mulder as "Cancer Man" but was always CREDITED as "Cigarette Smoking Man". I always wondered why they did that.

Don't they call The Haitian that within the show (Heroes)?

Greg


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

gchance said:


> You know, he was referred to by Mulder as "Cancer Man" but was always CREDITED as "Cigarette Smoking Man". I always wondered why they did that.


Not only that, but he became known as CSM, much like HRG in Heroes.

phox


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

gchance said:


> Don't they call The Haitian that within the show (Heroes)?


The Persuasive Pixie had a line where she said something like "and if *that Haitian* could talk, he'd tell you the same thing".

To the best of my recollection, that was the only in-show reference so far.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Stormspace said:


> Don't know if it's been said, but I originally thought that HRG had some sort of dampening power. Until I realized that Nathan flew when HRG and Haitian Guy were standing in front of him. So, to me it looks like HRG's power is that he is immune to the other supers powers. He can't be harmed, but at the same time can't extend that immunity to others. So he could stand in front of Sylar and not be effected, resist mind reading attempts, and be immune to suggestion.


I still think the Haitian guy does have some dampening power, but I think it has a) a somewhat limited range, and b) has to be focused (i.e. it's an active power, not a passive one). That still fits the Nathan flying scenario, because they were chasing after him, and when they caught up to him, he flew off before the Haitian could concentrate his power on him.

It also explains why Eden was able to Jedi Mind Trick Sylar (i.e. use her powers) at the same time that Haitian Dude was dampening Sylar's powers.

As for HRG - I am not convinced that he has any special abilities.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

DreadPirateRob said:


> I still think the Haitian guy does have some dampening power, but I think it has a) a somewhat limited range, and b) has to be focused (i.e. it's an active power, not a passive one). That still fits the Nathan flying scenario, because they were chasing after him, and when they caught up to him, he flew off before the Haitian could concentrate his power on him.
> 
> It also explains why Eden was able to Jedi Mind Trick Sylar (i.e. use her powers) at the same time that Haitian Dude was dampening Sylar's powers.
> 
> As for HRG - I am not convinced that he has any special abilities.


If you think about it, except for the encounter with Sylar HRG has always been the front man. If you were being assaulted, who would you go after the guy in front of you, or the guy hanging back a little bit. HRG being immune to the effects makes sense in that respect. Haitian guy is just along to modify memories.

Two anomalies that havn't yet been explained. 
1) Haitian guy and the cop - What actually happened?
2) Haitian guy and Sylar

In number one Haitian guy could have done any number of things to the cop and then made him forget. In fact the whole pass out and lose two day thing could be a modified memory and the marks on his neck be some sort of tag to track him.

In number two, Eden managed to surprise Sylar and he was hurt so there's no real proof that Haitian Guy has dampening powers.


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## alansh (Jan 3, 2003)

Also note there are two more chapters in the online comic, which


Spoiler



introduce a new hero, an Israeli named Hana who can hear and manipulate electronic communication


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## Royster (May 24, 2002)

DreadPirateRob said:


> As for HRG - I am not convinced that he has any special abilities.


I'm thinking those fashion disaster glasses are some kind of a high tech mutant detector or provide him some amount of personal protection from their powers.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Royster said:


> I'm thinking those fashion disaster glasses are some kind of a high tech mutant detector or provide him some amount of personal protection from their powers.


That's funny. It's probably more likely that the writers wanted to have him look like a scientist without throwing in the nerdisms like pocket protectors and such.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

DreadPirateRob said:


> .
> 
> As for HRG - I am not convinced that he has any special abilities.


I agree, and I don't think the glasses have any purpose other than to be glasses.


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## alansh (Jan 3, 2003)

I think the show's creators have admitted that the crew cut and glasses are to give that Cold War vibe. Note how Matt Damon on _The Good Shepherd_'s poster (about the CIA in the early 1960s) looks a lot like HRG.


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