# Heroes 11/26/2007 (S02E10) "Truth & Consequences"



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Wow, they managed to put all the crappy storylines into one episode. Those writers are simply amazing.


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## wmm_16 (Jul 10, 2003)

Did anyone else think there were more comercials than normal? 

There is a lot to finish up next week before I'll be content.


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## nrrhgreg (Aug 30, 2003)

I didn't watch a single part of the Micah/Niki/whateverhernameis story. They should be ashamed for even writing that into this season, it has nothing to do with the overall story line.


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

You know, the Sylar/Maya romance almost makes that storyline bearable.

I guess Joanna Cassidy wasn't going to stick around very long.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

dswallow said:


> Wow, they managed to put all the crappy storylines into one episode. Those writers are simply amazing.


No Hoyay on Shirtless Sylar?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

WinBear said:


> You know, the Sylar/Maya romance almost makes that storyline bearable.


Not only is she not Mexi-, she's not even a -Twin any more.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> No Hoyay on Shirtless Sylar?


Sylar is just ick to me no matter what he's wearing, or not.


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

Speculation on the previews


Spoiler



supposedly 2 heroes must fall next week. Can we assume Elle is one of those since we know KB only has a limited run?


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

So the composite picture of all the company founders, when was it taken?

It looks recent as it has all the recent actors at their current ages.

But Victoria Pratt left the company to be left alone 20 years ago.

WTF?


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

WinBear said:


> Speculation on the previews
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



Is she a Hero?


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

Episode sucked.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

Turtleboy said:


> So the composite picture of all the company founders, when was it taken?
> 
> It looks recent as it has all the recent actors at their current ages.
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I was wondering. I said to my wife "Well, she must have came back around long enough to have that picture taken."


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

More speculation on next week:



Spoiler



They aren't going to finish everything by the end of next week. It's just the end of the chapter, not the volume. Hopefully I have the terminology correct.



Sylar is supposed to be creepy and evil but it is Peter unknowingly helping Adam that is far more effective at creating tension. Is it me or is Hiro no match for Peter?

What are the motivations of the company post Adam? Are they simply there to track all those with abilities? If so, they are really bad at it.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Sirius Black said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't going to finish everything by the end of next week. It's just the end of the chapter, not the volume. Hopefully I have the terminology correct.


You are wrong. It is what you say it isn't.


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## Fassade (Apr 8, 2004)

Sirius Black said:


> More speculation on next week:
> Sylar is supposed to be creepy and evil but it is Peter unknowingly helping Adam that is far more effective at creating tension. Is it me or is Hiro no match for Peter?


Hiro was no match for Sylar, either, and we saw how that turned out. The closing shot suggests Peter may have absorbed the same peculiar vulnerability to a sword-weilding-Hiro-running-wildly-across-an-open-space-attack that Sylar did.


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## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

Yea! More Slusho!


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

I thought it was a decent episode-with the exception of The Case of the Missing Comic Books.


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

While I understand the substitution of the younger actor for the younger Takei character, they did not do the same when they showed him "taking possession" of the baby Hiro, and given Masi Oka's real age that would only have been about the same time as last night's flashback. Even if they want Hiro's age to be a little younger, it's still not that big of a difference. Just a little "discontinuity" observation


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

Ya. This episode was a little weak. I hope next week's "finale" isn't a fizzle out like last seasons finale...

I also wondered about the the younger Takei character. They didn't strictly say that Victoria left then, did they? It could have been some time down the road.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Maya's a dope.

Syler is so last year.

I expected a midget wrestling match when Claire and Elle squared off.

I like the Micah character but everybody else from that story arc can feel free to stay off my tv.

Who's ashes were they?


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

dswallow said:


> Sylar is just ick to me no matter what he's wearing, or not.


Even pointy ears??


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Ugh. That episode was just bad. Agreed - all the bad, boring, no-one-cares storylines all in one episode. Maya hiding behind a lightpole was the capper for me. That was utterly laughable. They couldn't have had him duck behind a bush or something a tad more realistic.

And all to retrieve his $600 comic book (well, and a medal) that he tossed around like he just bought it at the newsstand.

God, I hope Suresh dies next week.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I enjoyed the episode, but it suffered from the usual "if only they'd stop and talk for a second" that seems ever popular these days.

At least peter absorbed victoria's power, whatever it is.


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## wmm_16 (Jul 10, 2003)

I'm not sure she had a power, they said she was a chemist or somehting.


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

Sylar shirtless? :up:

No catfight between Claire and Elle? :down: :down: :down: :down: :down:

As for the rest of the episode... well, I have to say, I'm still not convinced they have any idea on where this season is going. It reminds me of the second season of Lost, right down to the expendable Tailies. 

And was it just me, or was Hayden's 'acting' really bad in last night's episode?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Skittles said:


> And was it just me, or was Hayden's 'acting' really bad in last night's episode?


I couldn't say, because I was too busy noticing how awful the writing in her scenes was.


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## canonelan2 (May 11, 2001)

For some reason the episode was in standard def until after the 2nd break. It's not the first time I've seen this with Heroes but it was the longest stretch I've seen.

Who's fault is it on something like this? DirecTV? NBC? or WMAQ-Chicago?

As far as the episode... (I caught up with the last 3 eps last night) I apparently liked it more than a lot of you, though I am sick of the Micah story.

Did Suresh know he would be able to bring Noah back to life when he shot him in the eye?

Will Claire age?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

canonelan2 said:


> For some reason the episode was in standard def until after the 2nd break. It's not the first time I've seen this with Heroes but it was the longest stretch I've seen.
> 
> Who's fault is it on something like this? DirecTV? NBC? or WMAQ-Chicago?


Usually it's the local, who sometimes run commercials in SD and thus have to manually switch back and forth (sometimes they forget to switch). In rare cases, there is a problem with the national feed. In this case, my recording had no problems, so it wasn't national.


canonelan2 said:


> As far as the episode... (I caught up with the last 3 eps last night) I apparently liked it more than a lot of you, though I am sick of the Micah story.


I liked it too, and was surprised by the vitriol.

I am working under the assumption that the Micah stuff is setting something up for Volume 3, which was supposed to be the rest of the season after next week. Maybe now we'll never know..?


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

If the show doesn't come back after the "Finale" next week, I don't think I'm going to miss it too much. Season one was a great ride, but this arc has been mostly boring and pretentious. While the previous episode left me hopeful that they could get back on track, this episode erased my optimism.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

I'm another one who liked it. 

I thought more people would have liked it because they killed off Alejandro.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

I only have one word regarding the Sylar/Mexitwins storyline this week. Baaarf!


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

PJO1966 said:


> I'm another one who liked it.
> 
> I thought more people would have liked it because they killed off Alejandro.


Half a loaf! Not good enough.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

allan said:


> Half a loaf! Not good enough.


I personally didn't have a problem with either one of them.


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## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

I forget, was Mohinder's dad in this picture the same one as the second one on the book cover from sesaon 1 or did he change again. I thought he looked different but it has been a while.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> I couldn't say, because I was too busy noticing how awful the writing in her scenes was.


Well, I couldn't say because her eyelashes are way too distracting.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

PJO1966 said:


> I thought more people would have liked it because they killed off Alejandro.


I'd have liked it better if they'd killed off the other twin (first).


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Cboath said:


> I forget, was Mohinder's dad in this picture the same one as the second one on the book cover from sesaon 1 or did he change again. I thought he looked different but it has been a while.


Mohinder's dad wasn't in the picture at all. He was never part of the Company and didn't have powers. He was simply a scientist from India who figured out the DNA sequence that would appear in those with powers.

I thought the episode was pretty weak, but not as bad as some of you thought. I did find it odd that Micah supposedly had $600 to spend on a comic book (when he's mooching off family that is obviously pretty poor) and then he was flinging it around like it was nothing. And if they were simply talking about an expensive comic book and it wasn't the one Micah had in his hand (which is what I suspect they were going for), why did the cousin think that any of Micah's books were valuable?

I did find it kind of comical when Elle was trying to put the keys in the ignition with the wrong hand. Why/How did she take them out in the first place?


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## glumlord (Oct 27, 2003)

cwoody222 said:


> Ugh. That episode was just bad. Agreed - all the bad, boring, no-one-cares storylines all in one episode. Maya hiding behind a lightpole was the capper for me. That was utterly laughable. They couldn't have had him duck behind a bush or something a tad more realistic.
> 
> And all to retrieve his $600 comic book (well, and a medal) that he tossed around like he just bought it at the newsstand.
> 
> God, I hope Suresh dies next week.


If your going to attack the story, at least get the character names correct.

Maya is the Mexican chick and she was not hiding behind the light post. Micah was the boy was hiding behind the pole. I thought it was appropriate since it was dark and he's really small.

The reason they went back was because it was the most important thing his father had ever given him, and he thought it was symbolic of good luck for his ailing mother. His cousin was just trying to help, and I think she wanted to test her powers out.


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## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> Mohinder's dad wasn't in the picture at all. He was never part of the Company and didn't have powers. He was simply a scientist from India who figured out the DNA sequence that would appear in those with powers.


That was what I thought too, but didn't he say last night that his parents were in the photo? I deleted so can't go back and check. (Have a 1 year old and a 7 year old so sometimes we miss a thing or 3)


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Cboath said:


> That was what I thought too, but didn't he say last night that his parents were in the photo? I deleted so can't go back and check. (Have a 1 year old and a 7 year old so sometimes we miss a thing or 3)


That was peter.


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

canonelan2 said:


> Will Claire age?


Not aging could be an evolution of her powers, like like Matt's ability to manipulate people after he was able to read their minds for a while. The body grows to maturity for 20-30 years and then stops aging (or after a person has used their healing powers for a while).

How did Adam and Victoria both know decapitation kills you for good? Have they seen/killed others? Highlander much? Wouldn't a big explosion like the one in White Beard's camp have the power to tear the body apart?

We've seen Claire incapacitated with a foreign object in her head, so that fits. Of course with the brain pathways contributing to a person's personality, if the whole head were recreated, all those would be reset.

Gotta go... I'm late for my Overthinkers Anonymous meeting...


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## stiffi (Jun 14, 2006)

DevdogAZ said:


> I thought the episode was pretty weak, but not as bad as some of you thought. I did find it odd that Micah supposedly had $600 to spend on a comic book (when he's mooching off family that is obviously pretty poor) and then he was flinging it around like it was nothing.


First of all, Micah has always had the comic books. Presumably, he collected them as they came out for $3 each, and now they're popular because Isaac is dead.

Secondly, he's a kid. Most kids have little regard for property, expensive or not.


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## Fassade (Apr 8, 2004)

jschuur said:


> How did Adam and Victoria both know decapitation kills you for good? Have they seen/killed others? Highlander much? Wouldn't a big explosion like the one in White Beard's camp have the power to tear the body apart?


Maybe that is why they showed a charred, but otherwise, intact, corpse after the explosion at White Beard's camp -- so we would know Kensei was not decapitated. After that, Kensei could have have picked up a clue about decapitation over the past 400 years. On the other hand, he could also have made it up to justify murdering Victoria to Peter.

As for Victoria, didn't she indicate she was guessing when she was holding the shotgun? (I deleted the ep, so I cannot check.)


jschuur said:


> Gotta go... I'm late for my Overthinkers Anonymous meeting...


See you at the meeting...


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> I did find it odd that Micah supposedly had $600 to spend on a comic book (when he's mooching off family that is obviously pretty poor) and then he was flinging it around like it was nothing. And if they were simply talking about an expensive comic book and it wasn't the one Micah had in his hand (which is what I suspect they were going for), why did the cousin think that any of Micah's books were valuable?


Having valuable comic books doesn't mean one paid a high price for the comic books. I do doubt the 9th Wonder comic that was shown was being referred to as valuable; they're too recent. So the conversation probably was about comic books in general; Micah may even have had some collectible-quality comic books, too. But the one being flung around was just a present-day comic book, not a valuable/collectible one, at least not yet.


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## ZooCaretaker (May 22, 2007)

jschuur said:


> Not aging could be an evolution of her powers, like like Matt's ability to manipulate people after he was able to read their minds for a while. The body grows to maturity for 20-30 years and then stops aging (or after a person has used their healing powers for a while).
> 
> How did Adam and Victoria both know decapitation kills you for good? Have they seen/killed others? Highlander much? Wouldn't a big explosion like the one in White Beard's camp have the power to tear the body apart?


When Matt was forcing Angela to reveal info about Victoria, she also revealed that since Adam had the power of regeneration, eventually his body stopped aging.

Didn't Sylar say the key to the power was in the brain ... so if the brain is incapacitated the power does not work. We have seen this with both Claire and Peter.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

dswallow said:


> Having valuable comic books doesn't mean one paid a high price for the comic books. I do doubt the 9th Wonder comic that was shown was being referred to as valuable; they're too recent. So the conversation probably was about comic books in general; Micah may even have had some collectible-quality comic books, too. But the one being flung around was just a present-day comic book, not a valuable/collectible one, at least not yet.


But that doesn't make sense with the story. If Micah simply has a valuable comic book, or they were simply talking about one that they saw at the store, what was the impetus for the cousin to steal Micah's backpack?


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## borther (Jan 22, 2004)

dswallow said:


> I'd have liked it better if they'd killed off the other twin (first).


+1 What a whinney little wretch.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> But that doesn't make sense with the story. If Micah simply has a valuable comic book, or they were simply talking about one that they saw at the store, what was the impetus for the cousin to steal Micah's backpack?


Because Micah's valuable comic books were in the backpack.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

The whole Mohinder and his dad story is confusing. The virus is called the Shanti virus after his sister but it was built in a lab by a company that his dad didn't work for but he later found out about - huh ?? I'm lost


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

JohnB1000 said:


> The whole Mohinder and his dad story is confusing. The virus is called the Shanti virus after his sister but it was built in a lab by a company that his dad didn't work for but he later found out about - huh ?? I'm lost


The chemist lifted the virus from Mohinder's dead sister.


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

JohnB1000 said:


> The whole Mohinder and his dad story is confusing. The virus is called the Shanti virus after his sister but it was built in a lab by a company that his dad didn't work for but he later found out about - huh ?? I'm lost


Victoria Pratt took the virus from Shanti, although I'm not exactly clear on whether it was before or after Shanti was dead.

What I don't get is that Peter can read minds, but he can't tell whether Victoria or Adam is the one telling the truth?


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## ZooCaretaker (May 22, 2007)

PJO1966 said:


> The chemist lifted the virus from Mohinder's dead sister.


.. and then mutated it (there was a certain strain they were looking for). Had the virus been in it's original form - directly from Shanti - the world population would have been wiped out 30 years ago.


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

I did like that Peter used the dream power that he apparently picked up from Charles Deveaux. Clairvoyance?


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## RickStrobel (Jan 19, 2000)

I think Peter has to be suspicious of Adam. Especially after he untied Victoria. Why the hell would anyone do that. She just tried to kill both of them a few moments ago. There's a shotgun laying three feet from where she's tied up. Duh!

Furthermore, doesn't he trust Hiro? Time is frozen. Why not pause for a moment and ask "what do you mean he killed your father.... what do you know about this guy?".


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## rach1831 (Sep 23, 2007)

The episode was alright. It was a little disapointing after last weeks, which I thought was awesome. I am over the twins and Monica though.

Does anyone else think Mohinder is an idiot?? He drives me mad with some of the stuff he says and does!!!


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

rach1831 said:


> The episode was alright. It was a little disapointing after last weeks, which I thought was awesome. I am over the twins and Monica though.
> 
> Does anyone else think Mohinder is an idiot?? He drives me mad with some of the stuff he says and does!!!


Mohinder has always been somebody's patsy. Last season it was Eden, then Sylar. This time it's Bob and the Company.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

If it worked like it should, then peter shouldn't be able to use his powers while time is stopped.

For instance, only items that he is touching should be in the timstop speed. 

If he shoots lightning, it should freeze in mid air, once he's not touching it, etc. 

However Hiro's blade can move in the stopped space because it is being touched by Hiro!


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

dswallow said:


> Well, I couldn't say because her eyelashes are way too distracting.


I read this and thought you were referring to shirtless Skylar. Really! 

Well, he played a "she" in "So NoTORIous"...


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

glumlord said:


> If your going to attack the story, at least get the character names correct.


Sorry.

I don't know how I could have ever confused the name of "Maya" with the name "Micah"... especially when I could care less about both of their boring characters and storylines.


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## glumlord (Oct 27, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Because Micah's valuable comic books were in the backpack.


If I was watching the show correctly the comics were only a secondary thing, I think he was more concerned about the medal his father gave him for being a "HERO" firefighter


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

glumlord said:


> If I was watching the show correctly the comics were only a secondary thing, I think he was more concerned about the medal his father gave him for being a "HERO" firefighter


Yeah, whether there actually were valuable comics in the bag or not doesn't matter. All that matters is that his cousin _thought_ they might be valuable so he took the bag to find out.


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## glumlord (Oct 27, 2003)

cwoody222 said:


> Sorry.
> 
> I don't know how I could have ever confused the name of "Maya" with the name "Micah"... especially when I could care less about both of their boring characters and storylines.


Perhaps because ones a females name, and the other is a male? I know not a big deal but I think that Maya and Micah have there roles. They will play a part in the overall story.

Sure Maya and Micah are not nearly as exciting to watch as Peter/Hiro/Sylar/Matt, but it's a show about "Heroes".

Either way it's not a big deal, I could care less and I don't feel a need to defend a subset of characters. Just was correcting a mistake on your part.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Bryanmc said:


> Yeah, whether there actually were valuable comics in the bag or not doesn't matter. All that matters is that his cousin _thought_ they might be valuable so he took the bag to find out.


Exactly. And the specific question I was answering was, why did the cousin steal the backpack?


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I don't get why they keep this virus laying around while they try to guard it from dangerous people with lots of power. Why not just destroy it? Isn't that possible, or is Adam not the only one with a secret agenda?


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> I don't get why they keep this virus laying around while they try to guard it from dangerous people with lots of power. Why not just destroy it? Isn't that possible, or is Adam not the only one with a secret agenda?


Typical macguffin - it exists and they keep it for the story to unfold around it. Same applies to Sylar - why does he want more powers? For what goal?

Speaking of Sylar, did anyone else hear the stopwatch sound as he closed to door on dead boy-twin? Does that mean he (finally!) has his power back?


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

rgr said:


> Speaking of Sylar, did anyone else hear the stopwatch sound as he closed to door on dead boy-twin? Does that mean he (finally!) has his power back?


I've heard the stopwatch sound several times this season when Sylar is around. Probably every episode that he has been in. I don't know what to make of it.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

stalemate said:


> I've heard the stopwatch sound several times this season when Sylar is around. Probably every episode that he has been in. I don't know what to make of it.


Sylar is horribly noisy brand of watch.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> You are wrong. It is what you say it isn't.


Maybe yes, maybe no.



Spoiler



Originally next weeks episode was going to be the end of this plot, they shot an extra scene or two and re-edited the episode. The edited episode will serve a season ending episode, if they think the strike will end the season.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

lew said:


> Maybe yes, maybe no.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Absolutely yes.


Spoiler



Next week was going to be the end of Volume 2 regardless. Volume 3 would then have started up in the winter/spring. Volumes 2 & 3 would thus have comprised Season 2. Now, they have rewritten the end of next week's episode so that Volume 2 will be the end of Season 2...unless the strike ends, in which case they'll probably air the original ending, since they'll have plenty of time to get Volume 3 ready for its original airdate (there was going to be a mid-season hiatus already).


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

So when Kaito said to Adam when Adam came to kill him, "Out of _all of them_ I never thought it would be _you_" what the hell does that mean??

It seems to have meant that Philosophically, he couldn't believe that Adam killed him, b/c Adam isn't the type of person to do that -- it would be a scumbag like Bob or Linderman (yes, who is dead). That's cool.

But Kaito locked up Adam and threw away the key. If there was anyone out of all of them who would want to kill Kaito it is Adam.

So what did he mean? That he didn't think it would be him b/c he thought he was locked up?

Lame.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I think i can see that the Sylar/Maya plotline might be leading into the big storyline for chapter 3, but I don't understand where Micah and his cousin fit into anything.

Last year, even the Micah/Niki/DL storyline eventually led them to Linderman and Nathan's election, which interceded with the main plotline nicely.

But it just throws the whole momentum of the show flat on the ground, when you get away from the main seasonlong plotline, and throw in some kids trying to break into somebody's house to get their stuff back.

At least I think that the Sylar/Maya plotline, while seemingly a waste of time for this chapter might be big in the next chapter...

But if so, they should have introduced them 3 weeks ago, and they could have gotten everything they wanted for next chapter by next week's episode.

-smak-


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

ElJay said:


> If the show doesn't come back after the "Finale" next week, I don't think I'm going to miss it too much. Season one was a great ride, but this arc has been mostly boring and pretentious. While the previous episode left me hopeful that they could get back on track, this episode erased my optimism.


I liked this episode quite a bit, but I'm with you - if the show is over after this run, I'll be fine with it. It's felt like a chore to follow it lately.


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## Odds Bodkins (Jun 7, 2006)

Easily the worst episode of the run. All the new characters are putrid and Ali Larter continues to butcher one of the least complex and boring characters of all time, which, I'm convinced, is only something she can do. It gets more and more obvious they never thought this show would last more than the first year... that, or the writers strike started 6 months earlier for Heroes.

Micah = don't care
Nikki = don't care
Maya/Alejandro = so don't care
Elle = ugh
Molly = shoot me
Caitlin = why? worst written love interest ever

I'll still be watching next week in hopes they can pull a St. Joan out of a hat.


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

MickeS said:


> I liked this episode quite a bit, but I'm with you - if the show is over after this run, I'll be fine with it. It's felt like a chore to follow it lately.


I'm surprised at how fast a show with so much good will can be turned on by the fans. Don't get me wrong, this season has sucked hard so far, but to wish it to be cancelled after next week is another thing altogether...


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Vito the TiVo said:


> I'm surprised at how fast a show with so much good will can be turned on by the fans. Don't get me wrong, this season has sucked hard so far, but to wish it to be cancelled after next week is another thing altogether...


Well, I don't really wish for it to be canceled, but I wouldn't particularly care if it was. NBC has a limited amount of resources - I'd rather they spent it on something I like.

And this show's fall has been fast and deep because it was so good, fresh and compelling last season, and then this season all they did was try and do the EXACT same themes again, when we in the audience wanted a deeper and more entertaining exploration of those themes, not a repetition.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

I still like this show but I can tell I'm gradually drifting away from it. I used to hang on every word, but lately I find myself grabbing my laptop and surfing the web while I watch. Not a good sign! 

They really need a major new story arc to grab my attention again I think. As down as I was on Lost for awhile, even at it's lowest point I think it was fresher than this show is right now. As a matter of fact I can't wait for Lost to come back. (Who knows when it will though, damn writer's strike!)

I won't give up on Heroes, but it's not a "must watch" show for me any longer.


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## dansee (Oct 23, 2003)

appleye1 said:


> I still like this show but I can tell I'm gradually drifting away from it. I used to hang on every word, but lately I find myself grabbing my laptop and surfing the web while I watch. Not a good sign!


I have found myself doing the exact same thing for most of the season. Last week, it finally held my attention, and I found myself excited at the prospects of the next few episodes.

This week? Tanked. Back to meandering story arcs that could be tied-up in minutes, rather than episodes, some truly horrible dialog, and that haunting feeling that came at the end of last year...

... namely that the big finale is going to be neither big, nor a finale of any sort.

Do I wish it canceled? No. I realize that a lot of folks still enjoy it. Is it a priority for me, or even close any more? No.


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## avery (May 29, 2006)

ADG said:


> While I understand the substitution of the younger actor for the younger Takei character, they did not do the same when they showed him "taking possession" of the baby Hiro, and given Masi Oka's real age that would only have been about the same time as last night's flashback. Even if they want Hiro's age to be a little younger, it's still not that big of a difference. Just a little "discontinuity" observation


The flashback scene I think you are recalling (from Season 1) was Kaito in "possession" of baby *Claire*, before instructing Mr. Benett about adopting her. At that time [on Deveaux's terrace] *little Hiro* was present - playing a Gameboy [?] and looked to be somewhere in single digits.

Last night's scene could obviously been prior to that - making Kaito appropriately younger - since what Hiro observed had to be 30 years ago. (when Kaito ordered Adam locked up)

However, in the former scene, Claire was shown as an infant, this _should_ mean it took place approx 17+/- years ago. However, every past reference to the *fire* Claire was presummed to die in, has stated that she was 18 months old - which would have made her a standing/walking toddler! So, a little "discontinuity" on this, at least.

Maybe someone else would like sort it out... perhaps the writers?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Shakhari said:


> Mohinder has always been somebody's patsy. Last season it was Eden, then Sylar. This time it's Bob and the Company.


Yeah but I could understand it with Eden.
You think that Mohinder would have learned by now.
He's become rather unlikeable by now by consistantly being so stupid.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> I don't get why they keep this virus laying around while they try to guard it from dangerous people with lots of power. Why not just destroy it? Isn't that possible, or is Adam not the only one with a secret agenda?


Don't we (America) keep strains of smallpox and such?


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## stiffi (Jun 14, 2006)

uncdrew said:


> Don't we (America) keep strains of smallpox and such?


Yes. There's even a facility somewhere that has the "black plague" strain of the influenza virus locked up.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

I personally feel the show is good as it's always been. The writing has always been weak and hokey, relying on tired Hollywood cliches, but I've found it enjoyable to watch. This show has been filled to the brim with Deus Ex Machinas since day one, but I guess the shiny new sheen of having a show of this kind on TV made a lot of people overlook that.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> Don't we (America) keep strains of smallpox and such?


Yes, and I'm guessing the reason for that is to be able to manufacture a vaccine should there be a need.


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

Ugh!!!!!!

Almost every story has characters that dont communicate with each other!

Why cant ANY of them stop for a second to give someone all the information?

The motivations of the characters is all being driven off lack of communication. It's like a three's company episode. To me that is very lazy writing.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

rgr said:


> Typical macguffin - it exists and they keep it for the story to unfold around it. Same applies to Sylar - why does he want more powers? For what goal?


Did you watch last season? He wanted to take over the country/the world. He became President in the alternate timeline.

Gee, someone wanting power for power's sake. Never happens.


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## Unseen Llama (Nov 29, 2005)

rgr said:


> Typical macguffin - it exists and they keep it for the story to unfold around it. Same applies to Sylar - why does he want more powers? For what goal?
> 
> Speaking of Sylar, did anyone else hear the stopwatch sound as he closed to door on dead boy-twin? Does that mean he (finally!) has his power back?


The ticking sound started when Sylar killed the shapeshifter (can't remember her name) earlier in the season. But the ticking has never been consistent like a normal clock. I would suspect that when Sylar gets his "rhythm" back, he will be fixed and ready to steal more powers.


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> Did you watch last season? He wanted to take over the country/the world. He became President in the alternate timeline.
> 
> Gee, someone wanting power for power's sake. Never happens.


My point exactly. He wants power, they want the virus. There's no real goal other than the acquisition of power.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

MickeS said:


> Yes, and I'm guessing the reason for that is to be able to manufacture a vaccine should there be a need.


Or perhaps some immortal will come release it.


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

NJChris said:


> Ugh!!!!!!
> 
> Almost every story has characters that dont communicate with each other!
> 
> ...


Sorry, no Lost threads before February


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Maybe Duncan Macleod can save this show!


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

The problems with this season all started when they added so many new characters. This caused to many plot lines to keep up with.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Philosofy said:


> Maybe Duncan Macleod can save this show!


Ted McGinely?


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Even people who can heal have to feed the meter.


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## Dante101 (Aug 1, 2003)

I don't understand what's happening with Heroes. What's with the "finale" being next week? On the Futon Critic website, it lists this season as having 24 episodes, but you guys are hinting that it might not return after next week's "finale."

I thought it was a popular show - have the ratings dropped substantially or something? Is NBC thinking of cancelling it? Why is there nothing on the futon critic's website about this? My Tivo doesn't list next week as being the series or season finale, but that's what they said after this last episode...

So damn confused...


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

Dante101 said:


> I don't understand what's happening with Heroes. What's with the "finale" being next week? On the Futon Critic website, it lists this season as having 24 episodes, but you guys are hinting that it might not return after next week's "finale."
> 
> I thought it was a popular show - have the ratings dropped substantially or something? Is NBC thinking of cancelling it? Why is there nothing on the futon critic's website about this? My Tivo doesn't list next week as being the series or season finale, but that's what they said after this last episode...
> 
> So damn confused...


Writer's strike. Can't shoot a show without scripts. If they can get the WGA to get back to work in time, they should pickup the rest of the season January/February.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

rgr said:


> Writer's strike. Can't shoot a show without scripts. If they can get the WGA to get back to work in time, they should pickup the rest of the season January/February.


And fortunately (I guess) the season was already structured in two "volumes," with the first already supposed to end next week. So they slightly re-jiggered the ending of next week's episode so that it will also serve as a season finale.

My guess is they're going to be watching the strike talks VERY closely in the next couple of days before they decide which version (season finale or volume finale) they air...it sounds like they might be close to an agreement, and it might be a problem to air the season finale on Monday, have the strike settle on Tuesday, and already be committed to the season being over.


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## footballdude (Apr 16, 2004)

I found Sylar to be a very interesting character last year. Now I just find him creepy. I was literally cringing when he was on screen in this ep.

The one and only thing I liked about this lousy ep was Hiro saying "Then you have chosen the wrong side!" and charging into battle.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And fortunately (I guess) the season was already structured in two "volumes," with the first already supposed to end next week. So they slightly re-jiggered the ending of next week's episode so that it will also serve as a season finale.
> 
> My guess is they're going to be watching the strike talks VERY closely in the next couple of days before they decide which version (season finale or volume finale) they air...it sounds like they might be close to an agreement, and it might be a problem to air the season finale on Monday, have the strike settle on Tuesday, and already be committed to the season being over.


Simple solution... call volume two "season three".


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> Simple solution... call volume two "season three".


Huh?!?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> Even people who can heal have to feed the meter.


She's barely taller than a parking meter!


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

MickeS said:


> She's barely taller than a parking meter!


And some of that's the shoes and even the level the grass is planted compared to the meter base.


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

RickStrobel said:


> I think Peter has to be suspicious of Adam. Especially after he untied Victoria. Why the hell would anyone do that. She just tried to kill both of them a few moments ago. There's a shotgun laying three feet from where she's tied up. Duh!


I think that was intentional, especially since we saw afterwards that he laid the same symbol at her body that he'd done on the people who he'd (presumably) killed. Adam knew Victoria was going to jump for the gun. When she did so, Adam could kill her and claim self-defense to Peter.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

serumgard said:


> I think that was intentional, especially since we saw afterwards that he laid the same symbol at her body that he'd done on the people who he'd (presumably) killed. Adam knew Victoria was going to jump for the gun. When she did so, Adam could kill her and claim self-defense to Peter.


That's Rick's point--unless Peter is dumber than a sack of hammers, he's got to be suspicious of Adam's behavior.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

If Parkman had to force Ma Patrelli to tell him where Victoria was, how did Adam and Peter find her so easily? If Adam already knew, wouldn't she have moved somewhere that he didn't know about? If I knew that he was an enemy, I would have moved. How did Adam and Peter find her?


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That's Rick's point--unless Peter is dumber than a sack of hammers, he's got to be suspicious of Adam's behavior.


Ooooooooooh...yeah, I'm a moron.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That's Rick's point--unless Peter is dumber than a sack of hammers, he's got to be suspicious of Adam's behavior.


Frankly, I have definite suspicions about Peter's IQ. As far as I can tell, he's swallowing Adam's spin, hook line and sinker. Hopefully next week will prove me wrong.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

allan said:


> Frankly, I have definite suspicions about Peter's IQ. As far as I can tell, he's swallowing Adam's spin, hook line and sinker. Hopefully next week will prove me wrong.


Peter's never been terribly bright.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

allan said:


> Frankly, I have definite suspicions about Peter's IQ. As far as I can tell, he's swallowing Adam's spin, hook line and sinker. Hopefully next week will prove me wrong.


To his credit, he DID have a strange look on his face when Adam did his thing. Which could have been nothing other than suspicion or bad acting. Well, OK, maybe indigestion.


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

ElJay said:


> If the show doesn't come back after the "Finale" next week, I don't think I'm going to miss it too much.


I'm with you. Last year, we watched it when it aired. This season, it's "Hey, we have a couple of Heroes on the Tivo. Wanna watch them?" Pity.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

MickeS said:


> She's barely taller than a parking meter!


That parking meter has nice dials! 

Anyways......I too thought the episode was ok. I still can't figure out who really is good and who really is bad. Oh well. I still do enjoy the ride.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I was amazed that Bob WAS Elle's dad. The way she said it in the first episode, it sounded sarcastic. I was surprised then when people took it at face value.


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## stiffi (Jun 14, 2006)

MickeS said:


> I was amazed that Bob WAS Elle's dad. The way she said it in the first episode, it sounded sarcastic. I was surprised then when people took it at face value.


I'm pretty sure Kristen Bell is just a terrible actress, but it's possible she's adopted, or was given to Bob to protect, just like Claire. If this is true and she knows it, then she could have been using the sarcastic tone to indicate a "you're not my real Dad" type of thing.


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

stiffi said:


> I'm pretty sure Kristen Bell is just a terrible actress, but it's possible she's adopted, or was given to Bob to protect, just like Claire. If this is true and she knows it, then she could have been using the sarcastic tone to indicate a "you're not my real Dad" type of thing.


No, not a terrible actress at all. Watch Veronica Mars or Deadwood.


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## stiffi (Jun 14, 2006)

serumgard said:


> No, not a terrible actress at all. Watch Veronica Mars or Deadwood.


Unfortunately, I've been forced to watch Gossip Girl, for which she does the secret, voice over only, title character.

She seems just as bad to me in that, also.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

PJO1966 said:


> Peter's never been terribly bright.


Not exactly true.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

I still enjoy the show, and am nowhere near joining the 'take it or leave it' crowd. But there seems little doubt that this season has some issues. The biggest (IMHO) is the sheer number of characters and the (what appears to be) disparate story lines. Particularly after this latest episode. We have too many plot lines, too many characters, different time lines, and far too much switching from scene to scene. Even for a 'never missed a show" viewer like me, it can be tough to keep up with. They also have introduced characters that we are supposed to care about, but just don't. Like Caitlin in the future. Peter's entire motive for working with Adam is to eventually be able to rescue Caitlin. But rescuing time traveling characters is risky writing--after all, can't he just return to the future and bring her back?

We got good viruses and bad viruses and viruses that we're not sure are good or bad or where they came from, and blood that heals and people who can't die and people who probably have powers but we don't know what they are and new characters that we're not sure why they have been introduced (N'awlins for example) and heroes who we wish would go away but keep coming back and.

In other words, we have writers who have created a season that's just like that last sentence--sloppy, rambling and all over the place.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Doh!


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## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

I would have quit watching by now if it weren't for my girlfriend. It is harder for her to give up on shows. I pretty much just watch to mock it now.

I hate so many of the characters. And so many of them are crap actors.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

It's still my favorite show. But it's not Season 1.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

stiffi said:


> I'm pretty sure Kristen Bell is just a terrible actress...


I have to agree here...I'm not impressed, especially after all the hype about her joining the Heroes cast.



allan said:


> It's still my favorite show. But it's not Season 1.


Sadly, I can't say the same. It's relegated to my "...if I've watched everything else on my NPL, I'll get to this episode..." list.


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## FilmCritic3000 (Oct 29, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> I have to agree here...I'm not impressed, especially after all the hype about her joining the Heroes cast.


Please give _Veronica Mars_ a watch, then give me your impressions on her acting ability.


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## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

Kristen Bell is a decent actress. Her role on Heroes is just kinda weak.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

FilmCritic3000 said:


> Please give _Veronica Mars_ a watch, then give me your impressions on her acting ability.


I watched it sporadically and really thought she was average. On Heroes, she's below average.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I guess we have different definitions of acting...


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## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> I expected a midget wrestling match when Claire and Elle squared off.


What's up with these short actresses? Claire and Elle are 5'1" - Becca from Bionic women is a giant at 5'2" but she makes her sister look like a horse at 5'7"

Maybe to make the male actors look taller?


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

Shakhari said:


> Mohinder has always been somebody's patsy. Last season it was Eden, then Sylar. This time it's Bob and the Company.


Glad someone realizes that. Seems appropriate to me: Mohinder is used to academe and it's perfectly reasonable (but rarely shown on TV) that all this double-crossing and hidden agenda stuff would not come naturally to him. Peter has also had a the same bad habit, though not with quite the same consistency.



Bierboy said:


> I watched it sporadically and really thought she was average. On Heroes, she's below average.


Personally I think she's doing a great job of conveying a subtle and complex thing: the effects of the odd way she's been raised, more obviously as we see how Bob treats her. It's the _character_ who sucks, not the acting.


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