# Is this problem due to my TiVo?



## dvdfever (Jun 2, 2002)

I'm not sure if this is down to the TiVo that I've now had for 2 months, or my TV (Panny TXW32R4 - a 32" WS CRT), but while the TV is about 7 years old this problem has only happened since getting this TiVo so I'm wondering if there's some setting that I've missed that can help.

Basically, it's to do with ghosting but it's not the same fast left-to-right ghosting problem I had with my old TiVo since that went wonky back in June, and it's not normal RF ghosting (I took out the aerial to my TV and I've made all the SCARTs one-way apart from the one from the TiVo to the DVD recorder (and to stop RF ghosting there I've removed the aerial connections to that since it just gets used for recording from Freeview occasionally and also from the TiVo).

The ghosting is most apparent during dark scenes or when watching a 2.35:1 film so there's black bars top and bottom and so you can always see some black, and generally has a thick line going from left to right slowly or a bit faster (but still nowhere near as fast as the previous TiVo). However, with this problem sometimes the ghosting goes from right to left, and if I've got the TV on AV3 and am either watching an NTSC programme on my Xbox (so it's in 60Hz), or playing a 60Hz game on either the Xbox or Xbox 360 then I get stacks of diagonal ghosting lines on the TiVo that's I can only describe as "frantic" when it comes to the speed of this.

Now, this sounds like a problem with the TV, given that I don't get any of this when the TV's off and that I also get a funny set of lines when changing the TV back from AV3 to AV1, and also when turning the TV on from standby or on from being totally off, but the TiVo is also playing a part by reacting to all of this when my previous one didn't do it at all.

I'd think about replacing the TV but the only TV I thought about getting (Samsung's Slimfit, which was a CRT and could also deal with HD) had the most horrendous geometry in both versions that came out before they scrapped it, and any flatscreen I've seen makes standard-definition pictures look, frankly, terrible, as well as processed to hell and back.

All advice welcome but given that SCARTs are one-way I can only presume the TiVo is 'picking up' the interference by simply being next to the TV, and that's rather unavoidable for obvious reasons.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

If I recall this can be caused by signal blead in the scart cables so you get a weak blend of what your STB is receiving plus what Tivo is playing.

Better scart leads may help...

Automan.


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## dvdfever (Jun 2, 2002)

I thought something in that area might've been the cause with the old TiVo that turned out to have a SNAFU'd AUX SCART, but it's the fact that this latest problem is dependent on the actions of my TV which has got me totally baffled.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Some TV's also give out a composite video signal with sound on scart AV1
What they output on AV1 can vary from being what the UHF tuner is tuned to, what the integrated freeview is tuned to (if it has one).

This can also blead back to what is being input on AV1.

No guarantees this has anything to do with the problem but all that springs to mind 

Automan.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

I'd concur; don't assume the there is no outgoing signal on the TV's SCART; at least one of mine lets you control what signal is OUTPUT on that SCART.


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## dvdfever (Jun 2, 2002)

But what I can't understand is, if I've made that SCART one-way from the TiVo to the TV, how can it be feeding back into the TiVo?


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

SCART is a two-way cable - and most SCART sockets are two-way.


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## staffie2001uk (Apr 1, 2004)

The ghosting you are describing sounds a lot like a problem I had after my digital cordless telephone base station got moved too near to my AV amp. The fault increased/decreased when I moved the base station closer/further away. Restoring the base station to it's original position solved the problem. Any wireless kit could cause a similar effect as it's emissions can cause induction in unshielded components. 

Hope this helps.


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## dvdfever (Jun 2, 2002)

ozsat said:


> SCART is a two-way cable - and most SCART sockets are two-way.


I meant I'd snipped the relevant wires inside such that if you were to swap the cable round you'd get a blank screen.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Did you "snip" them and the send end of the cable?

If not in can make it worse...

Automan.


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## dvdfever (Jun 2, 2002)

Yep, snipped both ends.

Maybe the new TiVo's reacting more to the wireless router (which is about 3m away) than the old one did? Just a thought (be it right or wrong)


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## dvdfever (Jun 2, 2002)

Tonight, I finally got round to disconnecting the SCART between the TiVo and the TV, and testing it out the problem of the picture going haywire when running NTSC/60Hz material (in this case a US programme on the Xbox rather than a 60Hz game), and the problem was still there, so I'm guessing that the shielding on the TV is getting progressively worse and is affecting the TiVo (although the problem isn't there when the TV's off... erm...  )

Does the shielding sound like the issue, please? Ta muchly.


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## dvdfever (Jun 2, 2002)

Anyone know if this is the likely answer, please?


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## terryeden (Nov 2, 2002)

Sounds like your TV is on the way out.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

terryeden said:


> Sounds like your TV is on the way out.


There are some lovely cheap 37" and 42" Plasma tvs available in the January sales so perfect timing there it would seem.

Of course you might want to try and take your Tivo with all current Scart leads to someone else's house with a new tv to check this was actually the case.


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## dvdfever (Jun 2, 2002)

A new TV would be sort-of good news, although 32" is about as big as I can go due to the space and the distance I'm sat from it.

Also, I've not heard of any flatscreens that don't object to onscreen logos (due to burn in, not my hatred of their pointless existence), nor that don't give a horribly 'processed' look to a picture of anything in standard definition. M&S had a 40" LCD they claimed was showing HD but it was just Kiss' music TV channel and it looked like it had been dunked in tea like one of those old parchment things you used to do at school.

I was hoping to get a new decent CRT but... there are none. I looked at Samsung's Slimfit TV earlier in the year which would've been perfect as it had the CRT aspect and I could get HD out of my Xbox 360 games, but the geometry was bobbins beyond belief and after two attempts they gave up and no-one else had a go at this.

Any recommendations TV-wise would be much appreciated.

BTW, I don't get this problem at all when the TV is off and recording stuff so anything recorded overnight is perfectly fine, so I guess that does indicate it's the telly that's causing all the problems.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

dvdfever said:


> Also, I've not heard of any flatscreens that don't object to onscreen logos (due to burn in, not my hatred of their pointless existence), nor that don't give a horribly 'processed' look to a picture of anything in standard definition. M&S had a 40" LCD they claimed was showing HD but it was just Kiss' music TV channel and it looked like it had been dunked in tea like one of those old parchment things you used to do at school.


The general view on here seems to be that Plasma sets give better results with SD pictures (like those from Tivo) than LCD sets. Plasma screens are now only available starting from 37" - but that is not much larger than 32"



> I was hoping to get a new decent CRT but... there are none.


Try Ebay and get yourself a top notch Sony or Panasonic CRT for about £150 to £200. Only snag is you will need to drive there to pick it up and then drive your old set to the local tip.

Also some of these units are still new and have been warehoused for a year or two.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

A certain website and the words CRT and 32" seems to produce an interesting set of results. Even the Buy It Now prices are not that high.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> A certain website


Since when has the mere _mention_ of eBay been banned on this forum? Linking directly to live items is banned, but that's about it AFAIK.

There's no need to be all cloak and dagger about *eBay* Pete


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> There's no need to be all cloak and dagger about *eBay* Pete


If you had received a previous beating over the matter in the very nice moderator's study then you would learn to be as cautious about mentions of a certain well known website as I am.

I think strictly speaking the forum rules probably ban most forms of external commercial website promotion by members on this website (other than those which appear as paid for advertising banners with links). But I am sure that is not a can of worms that you or the other main commercial UK Tivo upgraders would be at all keen on wanting to open.


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## dvdfever (Jun 2, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> The general view on here seems to be that Plasma sets give better results with SD pictures (like those from Tivo) than LCD sets. Plasma screens are now only available starting from 37" - but that is not much larger than 32"
> 
> Try Ebay and get yourself a top notch Sony or Panasonic CRT for about £150 to £200. Only snag is you will need to drive there to pick it up and then drive your old set to the local tip.
> 
> Also some of these units are still new and have been warehoused for a year or two.


Ta muchly for the suggestions. I'll take a look shortly. The only downside to 32" TVs, as I remember from taking one upstairs, is that they're very heavy buggers, which is where flatscreens help on that issue 

Forgot to add, I found a couple of cheap Slimfits on there but I don't know if it's worth taking a punt however cheap they are


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

dvdfever said:


> Also, I've not heard of any flatscreens that don't object to onscreen logos (due to burn in, not my hatred of their pointless existence),


LCDs don't suffer from burn-in.



> nor that don't give a horribly 'processed' look to a picture of anything in standard definition. .


That is a problem, but the newer screens are getting much better at it.


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## dvdfever (Jun 2, 2002)

Or I could just go for one of these 

http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/archives/103-inch-plasma-panasonic.jpg


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

dvdfever said:


> Ta muchly for the suggestions. I'll take a look shortly. The only downside to 32" TVs, as I remember from taking one upstairs, is that they're very heavy buggers, which is where flatscreens help on that issue


That is indeed the problem and one reason why I have given up on the idea of replacing this 29" 4:3 tv until it breaks or there is absolutely masses of FTA HD content available.

I buggered my back up carrying and dragging the Philips unit in here on my own 10 years ago (mostly it moved on the wheeled stand from the Volvo estate but that wasn't possible at various steps and doorways) so the thought of buggering my back twice scrapping this one and getting an even heavier 36" widescreen CRT replacement is a touch offputting. Far easier to buy a new 42" set from a store that is bundling in taking my current tv to the knackers yard for free when they deliver the new one.



> Forgot to add, I found a couple of cheap Slimfits on there but I don't know if it's worth taking a punt however cheap they are


Yes I spotted those too but I suspect the price reflects the falling price of 32" flatscreen HDTVs and the fact that the picture on these Samsung units is known to be rubbish.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

dvdfever said:


> Or I could just go for one of these
> 
> http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/archives/103-inch-plasma-panasonic.jpg


I believe cyril already has the equivalent Fujitsu 100"+ model on order.


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## Fred Smith (Oct 5, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> I believe cyril already has the equivalent Fujitsu 100"+ model on order.


He'd better get his order in quick then:

http://www.fujitsu-general.com/global/news/2007/07-V06-29/index.html


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Fred Smith said:


> He'd better get his order in quick then:
> 
> http://www.fujitsu-general.com/global/news/2007/07-V06-29/index.html


Interesting news.

I expect cyril will cope with a 100"+ screen from an alternate manufacturer instead.


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## CarlWalters (Oct 17, 2001)

TCM2007 said:


> LCDs don't suffer from burn-in.


I'd always believed that - but it's not strictly true. It can happen - as I've seen here at work. Very rare though (I've only seen it once) and there are ways to fix it thank goodness


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## dvdfever (Jun 2, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> That is indeed the problem and one reason why I have given up on the idea of replacing this 29" 4:3 tv until it breaks or there is absolutely masses of FTA HD content available.


I've said elsewhere, so I won't go into it in too much detail here as I'll start straying off-topic, that I don't think HD for UK programmes will take off over here for two reasons - (a) because I don't think Joe Punter is ready for it (it's only a few years since loads of people were seen going out to buy 16:9 TVs for the World Cup when it was broadcast in 4:3 only, and there are so many people out there who still have 14:9 analogue pictures stretched across their 16:9 screens and think that it looks "normal" - and the sad thing is that these people often get behind the wheel of a car! ) and also (b) that when it comes to SD bitrate, the BBC made a pig's ear of it on satellite. The bitrate was superb around February 2000, then they dropped it like a stone for a while and, by their own admission when I asked them - because it was bloody obvious, brought it back up to about halfway just as the 2000 Olympics began. They had no plans to go back to their original high bitrate and have never changed things since.

Hence, when broadcasters claim HD looks "4-5 times better than SD", then maybe it might but had SD not been screwed up in the first place then HD might not seem "necessary", and as it is the BBC's HD broadcasts have been reportedly halved from their original 20Mbps, so how can you measure the quality of something when they keep shifting the goalposts?

And before I changed from Sky analogue to digital, I noticed the quality of their analogue pictures was purposely getting worse as well as the time started to tick for the end of that service. But I digress...



> I buggered my back up carrying and dragging the Philips unit in here on my own 10 years ago (mostly it moved on the wheeled stand from the Volvo estate but that wasn't possible at various steps and doorways) so the thought of buggering my back twice scrapping this one and getting an even heavier 36" widescreen CRT replacement is a touch offputting. Far easier to buy a new 42" set from a store that is bundling in taking my current tv to the knackers yard for free when they deliver the new one.


I stupidly agreed to help the Granada rental guy in with the 2nd of 3 Philips TVs I tried at the time (since the geometry was terrible on those), as he turned up without a 2nd guy and I just wanted to get the thing indoors. I really regretted it the next day, given that AIUI one man shouldn't really carry more than 15kg on his own, and these TVs are around 53kg.

So you can imagine the look on my face when earlier this year as I was getting some building work done, including having a new kitchen put in, and on a day when my builder wasn't around I expected that this thing would be brought by two men and lifted into the front room where I'd cleared a space. I'd also estimated that the item and box would glide nicely through the front door. I estimated wrong, and when the guy (yes, just 1) came, he said, "No, it's doorstep delivery". The thing weighs 133kg!

My prospective brother-in-law helped me get it inside later on and I'll owe him forever for that 
http://www.maximedia.pl/pictures/?p=38_584


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## dvdfever (Jun 2, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> I believe cyril already has the equivalent Fujitsu 100"+ model on order.


The question is - will anyone order the 103" set just so they can say, "Mine's bigger than Cyril's"? (oo-er, missus!)


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## mikeyp (Dec 22, 2005)

dvdfever said:


> Or I could just go for one of these
> 
> http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/archives/103-inch-plasma-panasonic.jpg


I actually saw one of these in best buy while in Chicago this summer... *drool*
$10000 was a bit much for my pocket though...

I've seen 70" in curries though... for £5000


dvdfever said:


> The question is - will anyone order the 103" set just so they can say, "Mine's bigger than Cyril's"? (oo-er, missus!)


I'm single, so if anyone fancies giving me the money so someone can say they've got a bigger tv than Cyril, please get in touch!


dvdfever said:


> I stupidly agreed to help the Granada rental guy in with the 2nd of 3 Philips TVs I tried at the time (since the geometry was terrible on those), as he turned up without a 2nd guy and I just wanted to get the thing indoors. I really regretted it the next day, given that AIUI one man shouldn't really carry more than 15kg on his own, and these TVs are around 53kg.
> 
> So you can imagine the look on my face when earlier this year as I was getting some building work done, including having a new kitchen put in, and on a day when my builder wasn't around I expected that this thing would be brought by two men and lifted into the front room where I'd cleared a space. I'd also estimated that the item and box would glide nicely through the front door. I estimated wrong, and when the guy (yes, just 1) came, he said, "No, it's doorstep delivery". The thing weighs 133kg!
> 
> ...


My current tv is a 36" CRT, and weighs all of 93kg. It was last moved this summer from a 1st floor flat in Porthcawl, south Wales, to my living room in Leicester. It was just me and one removal guy taking it down that flight of stairs.
At any rate, it was easier than the 78kg sofa, where the sheer size of the beast became an issue.
That said, I'm only 19 so my back didn't suffer too badly.


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