# 20.3.8 Release Notes



## TiVoMargret

The first batch of TiVo Premiere customers were authorized for the 20.3.8 software update tonight.

Priority list sign-up is here: http://tivo.com/priority

Here are some of the changes:

- new transparency options for Closed Captions
- support for new apps (some of which may start appearing next week)
- support for "low battery" message for new RF remotes
- fixed an issue where the grid Guide didn't keep its place after scheduling a recording
- now will retry tuning requests after a Tuning Adapter fails to respond
- improved some issues related to transferring shows between Series4 and Series5 DVRs

Note: there is nothing in this update related to Wireless N Adapters. We are still trying to understand the issue. I would like to hear if any of the people that are having issues with the N Adapter find things get better when they update to 20.3.8.


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## BlackBetty

Thanks Marg! Hmm new app(s). Plural!


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## ThAbtO

TiVoMargret said:


> - improved some issues related to transferring shows between Series4 and Series5 DVRs


Does this fix the "Resume transfer from pause point" issue?


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## Dan203

ooh what new apps? Completely new? Or just new versions of the apps we already have?


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## JoeKustra

Dan203 said:


> ooh what new apps? Completely new? Or just new versions of the apps we already have?


What are the odds they will be optional?


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## pmiranda

TiVoMargret said:


> :up: now will retry tuning requests after a Tuning Adapter fails to respond


Manna from heaven!!!!
Yay!


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## Bierboy

TiVoMargret said:


> The first batch of TiVo Premiere customers were authorized for the 20.3.8 software update tonight.....


That's interesting since I received the update two days ago...


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## shamilian

BlackBetty said:


> Thanks Marg! Hmm new app(s). Plural!


"*support* for new apps"


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## UCLABB

TiVoMargret said:


> The first batch of TiVo Premiere customers were authorized for the 20.3.8 software update tonight.
> 
> Priority list sign-up is here: http://tivo.com/priority
> 
> Here are some of the changes:
> 
> - new transparency options for Closed Captions
> - support for new apps (some of which may start appearing next week)
> - support for "low battery" message for new RF remotes
> - fixed an issue where the grid Guide didn't keep its place after scheduling a recording
> - now will retry tuning requests after a Tuning Adapter fails to respond
> - improved some issues related to transferring shows between Series4 and Series5 DVRs
> 
> Note: there is nothing in this update related to Wireless N Adapters. We are still trying to understand the issue. I would like to hear if any of the people that are having issues with the N Adapter find things get better when they update to 20.3.8.


Let's hope signing up early in the priority list doesn't put you in the "black hole" like last time!


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## shamilian

UCLABB said:


> Let's hope signing up early in the priority list doesn't put you in the "black hole" like last time!


I think I am already in the "hole".

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=9931721

I read people who signed up yesterday already got updated.

Do you think Tivo knows what a FIFO queue is ?


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## dave13077

I signed up early on and still no love..... Sent an email to Margret asking her to check.


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## NorthAlabama

the guide losing it's place has become annoying when setting up my one-time special and movie recordings for the week, glad there is a fix planned. 

i signed up on the priority list, but no update yet...


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## CoxInPHX

UCLABB said:


> Let's hope signing up early in the priority list doesn't put you in the "black hole" like last time!


My Premieres also did not get the priory update last night or so far today. I will give it few days.

My Roamio and Minis all did receive the update.


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## Bierboy

As one who uses closed captioning often, I'm enjoying the added options now offered...


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## ajwees41

dave13077 said:


> I signed up early on and still no love..... Sent an email to Margret asking her to check.


dave check again I signed up early also and it downloaded over night.


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## TiVoMargret

If you signed up before midnight on Wednesday and don't have the update even after making the connection to the TiVo service, then please email me your TSN. ([email protected])

Sorry for the trouble!

Best,
--Margret


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## shamilian

CoxInPHX said:


> My Premiers also did not get the priory update last night or so far today. I will give it few days.
> 
> My Roamio and Minis all did receive the update.


World English Dictionary
premier (ˈprɛmjə)

 adj
4.	first in importance, rank, etc
5.	first in occurrence; earliest

I think we need to rename the "premier".


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## jgametest

This was the second major download of traffic on my TiVo and there was nothing.. No prompt just DONE. So I did the manually reboot and TiVo loaded in less than 5mins.

Sent Margret my TSN


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## dkenglish7

Any word on whether this update re-enables Wireless-G adapters on Premieres?


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## BlackBetty

Anyone have any pics or video if what the new netflix app looks like?


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## jgametest

So here is what I've seen so far:

1) HuluPlus loaded very quickly there is _network bug identifier _displaying the channel PBS Kids in the bottom right corner of the screen as I'm playing SuperWhy! Never seen that before.

2) Loaded KmTTG and pushed webtab to www.starfall.com
Webpage rendered quickly with no navigation-- preloaded to a flash section.
Was informed by page that flash player was missing.
Reason (Opera SDK not activated yet possibly)

3) Netflix loaded quickly to menu, but have not tried to load a video yet. Waiting my turn daughter jumped onto tv to claim ownership. Smart for 2yrs old. Same interface no change yet.

4) Tivo Launchpad loads quickly, hit Flingo and launched my que from Flingo Desktop.. Playing Winnie the Pooh, recorded from Tivo but at the time, captured by USBmyTV card...mp4 format streaming from PC. =) Still no Fwrd/Rew =(

Still have not tested Youtube on this release..

http://demo.tvstore.opera.com 
This is the store that is suppose to be active
"We're sorry but this device is not authorized"

Acquired from Opera TV Emulator


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## CloudAtlas

BlackBetty said:


> Anyone have any pics or video if what the new netflix app looks like?


Apps have not changed. As Margret mentioned above the 20.3.8 update added "support for new apps (some of which may start appearing next week)." So the new Netflix app may show up next week or the week after (Dec 23rd).

It's nice that TiVo can update the applications independently of the system software and w/o a reboot. Flash player and HD menu software are now dated November 6th and 5th.


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## ajwees41

I also noticed it said Manufacturer was Tivo Support


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## morac

Signed up on the priority list last week and still no update love, even after emailing Margret my TSN yesterday. Guess I'll just need to wait. Hopefully I get it by the time the masses get it.


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## CoxInPHX

1080p24 works again in the new HTML5 Netflix browser

It is a bit slow but much better/faster than the old Flash version.

You can launch the new HTML5 Netflix browser using a beta version of KMTTG
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9928301#post9928301


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## supasta

TiVoMargret said:


> If you signed up before midnight on Wednesday and don't have the update even after making the connection to the TiVo service, then please email me your TSN. ([email protected])
> 
> Sorry for the trouble!
> 
> Best,
> --Margret


Thank you for this. I got the update last night. No issues.


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## shamilian

morac said:


> Signed up on the priority list last week and still no update love, even after emailing Margret my TSN yesterday. Guess I'll just need to wait. Hopefully I get it by the time the masses get it.


Mine finally showed up after midnight (previous check was 8:00pm).

I got all my boxes update before the snow/ice storm today, just in case we lose power, I don't want it trying to do an upgrade.


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## mikeyts

BlackBetty said:


> Anyone have any pics or video if what the new netflix app looks like?


This, on Roamio. The old HTML5 one looks much the same as the Flash one with some added features.



CoxInPHX said:


> 1080p24 works again in the new HTML5 Netflix browser
> 
> It is a bit slow but much better/faster than the old Flash version.
> 
> You can launch the new HTML5 Netflix browser using a beta version of KMTTG
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9928301#post9928301


Not the same as the Roamio one is it? That one does not use Webkit, but a custom layout/rendering engine optimized to their application.


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## christheman

NorthAlabama said:


> the guide losing it's place has become annoying when setting up my one-time special and movie recordings for the week, glad there is a fix planned.
> 
> i signed up on the priority list, but no update yet...


Similar issue here, although for me the Guide seems to lose its place every half hour on the half hour, probably due to refreshing with most recent data.


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## CoxInPHX

mikeyts said:


> Not the same as the Roamio one is it? That one does not use Webkit, but a custom layout/rendering engine optimized to their application.


The HTML5 Netfix versions/builds appear to be identical on the Mini, the Premiere, and the Roamio

SW Version: /2013.2.1
Netflix Version: sdk 4.02.release 1933285/nrdjs
UI Build: release-36-p


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## mikeyts

It's visibly the same interface? Interesting. I'd have thought that it might require a firmware update.


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## jgametest

In order to see the new Netflix you have to launch it from the beta KMTTG as described above. In the section of remote, click the dropbox that says NETFLIX HTML. No this is a complete re-write there is a separate section for KIDS and then the General. It's flashy and quick. I did not see a prompt to choose profile so it's using the account profile. I watched it prebuffer the video of Superwhy before launched so it's running smooth. Using the beta I will try some other things to see how far I can take it. It seems this version has opened navigation to the browser.

This re-write reminds me of HuluPlus.

Enhanced Functions: Hit ZOOM from here you can search, pull account information, Exit KIDS , Exit Netflix.

Instead of the traditional REW/FWRD push UP and a mini window with pictures similar to what you get from Streambaby move the cursor left to right to increase-decrease length of video. Once you find where to start just hit SELECT.

The one thing this version lacks is the ability of "Start Over".. I thought if I hit info on the video of selection it would give me choices. Not that I see anyone figure where this ability went?

Here is the tool I'm using that brought me where I am now.
==================================================
Opera SDK 4 is using this --> http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/presto2.12/

These are all the technical specs of what this bad boy can do. The presto 2.12 is the latest rendering engine

Sent this command from KMTTG web 
opera:about 
Here it will identify LINUX kernel, Tivo version and the subdirectories Opera is installed in
including the plugins and other interesting data that has been hidden from us.
==================================================

moyekj

Originally Posted by CoxInPHX View Post

How do I run the above RPC command: on the Roamio Pro, in an attempt to see if I can get Netflix to launch?

Replace your current kmttg.jar with beta version in this zip file:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0S...it?usp=sharing
Then run kmttg and from Remote tab, Remote sub-tab press the "HME Jump" button with "Netflix (html)" as the selection to launch it.
(This also should work to run html version of Netflix on series 4 units).

__________________
Roamio Pro (Gigabit Ethernet)
Elite (Internal MoCA)
Premiere (MoCA adapter)
Cox headend with Motorola CableCards & TAs


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## mikeyts

jgametest said:


> No this is a complete re-write there is a separate section for KIDS and then the General. It's flashy and quick.


Roamio shipped with a version of this UI, and changed to this at some point middle of last month. In Netflix's technical blog post they say:


> Our SDK team built a new rendering engine with which we can deliver animations on very resource constrained devices, making it possible to give customers our best UI.


That "new rendering engine" is a replacement for Webkit, which I thought would be hard coded, though apparently not, if it can run on the Opera SDK platform. What do I know ? I have no background in web tech.


> I did not see a prompt to choose profile so it's using the account profile.


It briefly had profile support which was yanked for unexplained reasons. Everything else I have with that UI (Roku 3, PS3, Xbox 360) has profile support and "Profiles" is present on the line with Search (magnifier), Kids, Tools (cog) and Exit (profiles is represented by the icon of the currently selected one). When this UI first showed up it had profiles for about a day.


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## morac

Pending restart. Thanks Margret.


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## CoxInPHX

jgametest said:


> In order to see the new Netflix you have to launch it from the beta KMTTG as described above.


You no longer need the beta version of KMTTG, the new version *v1p0k release* has been updated to support launching the HTML5 Netflix.


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## dave13077

Both of my boxes were updated yesterday (Thanks Margret!!). 

So far, it is very early on, the "re-tuning" channel seems to be working. I tested it this morning and a couple of channels were black but I waited a few seconds. They did finally tune!! It was a second or so after the channel banner disappeared but they did tune. Before it didn't matter how long I waited they would just be black. I of course just jinsked my self.....


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## tbb1226

TiVoMargret said:


> - improved some issues related to transferring shows between Series4 and Series5 DVRs


I can't say for sure that this is related, but since I received this update Friday night, I can no longer transfer recordings between my Premiere and my Series3 HDTiVo. I have tried restarting both, renaming them, turning Video Sharing off and on, and nothing works. The S3 TiVo tells me that the S4 has no recordings (although it does), and the Premier tells me that the S3 "My Shows could not be displayed because of a network problem." There is no network problem that I can detect. Both units can connect to the TiVo server and get updates.

I had zero issues transferring shows between these two units for over a year before this update. What did you do, TiVo????


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## chiguy50

tbb1226 said:


> I can't say for sure that this is related, but since I received this update Friday night, I can no longer transfer recordings between my Premiere and my Series3 HDTiVo. I have tried restarting both, renaming them, turning Video Sharing off and on, and nothing works. The S3 TiVo tells me that the S4 has no recordings (although it does), and the Premier tells me that the S3 "My Shows could not be displayed because of a network problem." There is no network problem that I can detect. Both units can connect to the TiVo server and get updates.
> 
> I had zero issues transferring shows between these two units for over a year before this update. What did you do, TiVo????


If you haven't done so already, try disconnecting both boxes from the network connection (i.e., ethernet cable or wireless adapter) for about 30 seconds, then reconnect. If it is a network glitch, this "soft reset" could clear it up.


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## jgametest

That's weird my version of KMTTG just showed regular Netflix from the dropbox until I replaced it with beta. Will check into that update you mentioned. I confused my family, they launched Netflix this morning and said that's not what daddy was using last night where did it go? This is the yucky version.

Of course the new version supports it. Just download from SourceForge and replaced the old directory. Good to go. Now we wait for these new apps to appear.


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## rjrustia

I just observed a strange behavior with 20.3 8. I record all NFL Football games, with 1 hour padding. In the past, the TiVo would allocate 2 tuners for the 1:00 games, and a 3rd tuner for the 4:25 game. 3 tuners would record till 5:00, then just the late game. Today, only 2 tuners were allocated and recording from 4:25 till 5:00 and 1 tuner from 5:00 on. My Shows only showed the two 1:00 games. At 5:25, still 1 tuner allocated, but My Shows now had all three games, with the 4:25 game now 1 hour in progress. FOX had the 1:00 and 4:25 game. It seems that 20.3.8 figured out it didn't need to allocate another tuner to record the same channel.

The up side is smarter tuner allocation will give the user more recording options. The down side is if you want to watch the 2nd game (or show) you have to wait until the first one finishes before it will show up in My Shows (you can still watch it live). I will add that they are recorded from a Wishlist, not individual Season Passes. This is very confusing.

Also, the black channels are still there. No amount of time will acquire them.


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## tbb1226

chiguy50 said:


> If you haven't done so already, try disconnecting both boxes from the network connection (i.e., ethernet cable or wireless adapter) for about 30 seconds, then reconnect. If it is a network glitch, this "soft reset" could clear it up.


I did not try that, but I did reboot my router in the process. As I said before, it doesn't seem like there is any problem with the network, per se, but I'll give this a try and report back.


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## weaver

rjrustia said:


> I just observed a strange behavior with 20.3 8. I record all NFL Football games, with 1 hour padding. In the past, the TiVo would allocate 2 tuners for the 1:00 games, and a 3rd tuner for the 4:25 game. 3 tuners would record till 5:00, then just the late game. Today, only 2 tuners were allocated and recording from 4:25 till 5:00 and 1 tuner from 5:00 on. My Shows only showed the two 1:00 games. At 5:25, still 1 tuner allocated, but My Shows now had all three games, with the 4:25 game now 1 hour in progress. FOX had the 1:00 and 4:25 game. It seems that 20.3.8 figured out it didn't need to allocate another tuner to record the same channel.
> 
> The up side is smarter tuner allocation will give the user more recording options. The down side is if you want to watch the 2nd game (or show) you have to wait until the first one finishes before it will show up in My Shows (you can still watch it live). I will add that they are recorded from a Wishlist, not individual Season Passes. This is very confusing.
> 
> Also, the black channels are still there. No amount of time will acquire them.


I hope this is the case, that was number one on my which list. Number two was the upgrades to the closed captioning to allow removal of the black background. So, this could be a very good release for me.

On the down side, twice I have deleted a show after playing it, and had the live TV in the upper right-hand corner, but no menu, just a blank screen. I had to go to live TV and reenter TiVo central to get it back.


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## tbb1226

tbb1226 said:


> I did not try that, but I did reboot my router in the process. As I said before, it doesn't seem like there is any problem with the network, per se, but I'll give this a try and report back.


Tried disconnecting/reconnecting the Ethernet adapters. No dice.


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## astrohip

rjrustia said:


> I will add that they are recorded from a Wishlist, not individual Season Passes. This is very confusing.


Happened to me. Season Passes, not WL.

Great idea, but they need to clean up the programming. It makes it seem like your second recording is not working. Poor poor implementation.


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## PedjaR

rjrustia said:


> I just observed a strange behavior with 20.3 8. I record all NFL Football games, with 1 hour padding. In the past, the TiVo would allocate 2 tuners for the 1:00 games, and a 3rd tuner for the 4:25 game. 3 tuners would record till 5:00, then just the late game. Today, only 2 tuners were allocated and recording from 4:25 till 5:00 and 1 tuner from 5:00 on. My Shows only showed the two 1:00 games. At 5:25, still 1 tuner allocated, but My Shows now had all three games, with the 4:25 game now 1 hour in progress. FOX had the 1:00 and 4:25 game. It seems that 20.3.8 figured out it didn't need to allocate another tuner to record the same channel.
> 
> The up side is smarter tuner allocation will give the user more recording options. The down side is if you want to watch the 2nd game (or show) you have to wait until the first one finishes before it will show up in My Shows (you can still watch it live). I will add that they are recorded from a Wishlist, not individual Season Passes. This is very confusing.
> 
> Also, the black channels are still there. No amount of time will acquire them.


I noticed the same thing on my Roamio; I gues it is a 2.3.8 thing:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=512449


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## CoxInPHX

jgametest said:


> That's weird my version of KMTTG just showed regular Netflix from the dropbox until I replaced it with beta. Will check into that update you mentioned. I confused my family, they launched Netflix this morning and said that's not what daddy was using last night where did it go? This is the yucky version.
> 
> Of course the new version supports it. Just download from SourceForge and replaced the old directory. Good to go. Now we wait for these new apps to appear.


You can Update KMTTG right from the Help drop-down (below the Close red X) now. you do not have to copy and replace with new code.


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## chiguy50

tbb1226 said:


> Tried disconnecting/reconnecting the Ethernet adapters. No dice.


Sorry to hear that.

Sounds like it's time to get the TiVo help desk to troubleshoot your issue.


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## dave13077

rjrustia said:


> I just observed a strange behavior with 20.3 8. I record all NFL Football games, with 1 hour padding. In the past, the TiVo would allocate 2 tuners for the 1:00 games, and a 3rd tuner for the 4:25 game. 3 tuners would record till 5:00, then just the late game. Today, only 2 tuners were allocated and recording from 4:25 till 5:00 and 1 tuner from 5:00 on. My Shows only showed the two 1:00 games. At 5:25, still 1 tuner allocated, but My Shows now had all three games, with the 4:25 game now 1 hour in progress. FOX had the 1:00 and 4:25 game. It seems that 20.3.8 figured out it didn't need to allocate another tuner to record the same channel.
> 
> The up side is smarter tuner allocation will give the user more recording options. The down side is if you want to watch the 2nd game (or show) you have to wait until the first one finishes before it will show up in My Shows (you can still watch it live). Also, History in the HDUI does not show any of the games, using option show (all). Recording History in the SDUI doesn't show them either. I will add that they are recorded from a Wishlist, not individual Season Passes. This is very confusing. Tuners get smarter, and logging gets dumber.
> 
> I sure wish Margret would post those release notes.


The same thing happened to me. I couldn't start watching the second game until the first stopped recording. Since I pad NFL games by 1 1/2 hours (in case of overtime) I had to wait an hour and a half before I could start the second game. Also there was about an hour in the middle of the game that I could not watch. Even though it looked like that hour was there on the progress bar (Green bar) it would just freeze and when I tried to fast forward it would just jump about an hour ahead. Couldn't rewind as the same thing would happen. Do not know if this was because of the new "using one tuner" deal.


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## jgametest

Oh yes and I did that, I just wished it would automatically go where it's suppose to go de-compressed. Otherwise track it down from the download folder 7zip to c:\apps it's where I put everything that is commonly used or destroyed. But for now the existing process is fine.


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## muzzymate

TiVoMargret said:


> - now will retry tuning requests after a Tuning Adapter fails to respond


As a Time Warner / Tivo customer, this is the best news I've seen all year! Can't wait for the update to apply, if it hasn't already.


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## dave13077

muzzymate said:


> As a Time Warner / Tivo customer, this is the best news I've seen all year! Can't wait for the update to apply, if it hasn't already.


I'm on Time Warner also. So far this has helped with the Black Channel/fail to Tune issues. Haven't done a ton of testing but so far it is encouraging.


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## UCLABB

CoxInPHX said:


> You can Update KMTTG right from the Help drop-down (below the Close red X) now. you do not have to copy and replace with new code.


That didn't work for me. Got a path error message. Had to go sourceforge.


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## CloudAtlas

dave13077 said:


> The same thing happened to me. I couldn't start watching the second game until the first stopped recording. Since I pad NFL games by 1 1/2 hours (in case of overtime) I had to wait an hour and a half before I could start the second game.


Dave - Starting at 4:25pm couldn't you have started watching the second game (4:25pm) by viewing the first game (1 pm) and skipping 3hr 25 minutes ahead?

What TiVo must do is when the first recording finishes, it creates the second recording by copying the overlapping part, from the first recording, at which point the second game shows up in My Shows.

Pretty nice for 2 tuner Premiere users.


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## dbattaglia001

chiguy50 said:


> Sorry to hear that.
> 
> Sounds like it's time to get the TiVo help desk to troubleshoot your issue.





chiguy50 said:


> If you haven't done so already, try disconnecting both boxes from the network connection (i.e., ethernet cable or wireless adapter) for about 30 seconds, then reconnect. If it is a network glitch, this "soft reset" could clear it up.


I was able to transfer shows from a Series 3 to Premier with no problem after the software update. Must be an issue with your network.


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## dave13077

CloudAtlas said:


> Dave - Starting at 4:25pm couldn't you have started watching the second game (4:25pm) by viewing the first game (1 pm) and skipping 3hr 25 minutes ahead?
> 
> What TiVo must do is when the first recording finishes, it creates the second recording by copying the overlapping part, from the first recording, at which point the second game shows up in My Shows.
> 
> Pretty nice for 2 tuner Premiere users.


Yes I could have skipped ahead during the first game, but when I reached the end of the buffer I would then have to go to the second recording and skip through the first hour and half to reach the point where the first recording left off. Not exactly a step forward in my opinion. I understand what Tivo is trying to do but it is going to cause issues for some.


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## univers

Since the 20.3.8 update 2 days ago, I've been having a problem when I'm viewing a recording, reach the end and select 'Delete'. (Not sure if it would happen if I chose to keep the recording.)

Instead of seeing the 'My Shows' screen, I get only black.

The remote still functions and I can blindly select another recording to play, which then restores the display.

This has happened probably 5 or 6 times in 2 days, so somewhere between 10 and 20% of the time. Some of these were downloaded videos (CNET), others recordings from cable.


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## weaver

univers said:


> Since the 20.3.8 update 2 days ago, I've been having a problem when I'm viewing a recording, reach the end and select 'Delete'. (Not sure if it would happen if I chose to keep the recording.)
> 
> Instead of seeing the 'My Shows' screen, I get only black.
> 
> The remote still functions and I can blindly select another recording to play, which then restores the display.
> 
> This has happened probably 5 or 6 times in 2 days, so somewhere between 10 and 20% of the time. Some of these were downloaded videos (CNET), others recordings from cable.


I've seen this too. You can also go to live TV and then back to TiVo Central to bring the menus back.


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## nooneuknow

univers said:


> Since the 20.3.8 update 2 days ago, I've been having a problem when I'm viewing a recording, reach the end and select 'Delete'. (Not sure if it would happen if I chose to keep the recording.)
> 
> Instead of seeing the 'My Shows' screen, I get only black.
> 
> The remote still functions and I can blindly select another recording to play, which then restores the display.
> 
> This has happened probably 5 or 6 times in 2 days, so somewhere between 10 and 20% of the time. Some of these were downloaded videos (CNET), others recordings from cable.


I've seen this as well. PITA, but at least you can recover from it.


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## CoxInPHX

TiVoMargret said:


> Ok, I believe if you already have 20.3.8 installed on your Premiere, and you connect to the TiVo Service a couple of times, then the next time you launch Netflix you will get the new experience.
> 
> If you don't have 20.3.8 yet, you can still sign up at tivo.com/priority, but you might not get the update until January.
> 
> --Margret


Yes, the new HTML5 Netflix UI just launched on my Premieres this morning.


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## jgametest

That will explain the long update being pulled right now holding at 89%. Sweet here comes a delayed Christmas present. More apps gifts to come. "Trying to peak" I wonder if HuluPlus has a new one coming anytime soon, although they did just tweak that product a few days ago to include the network identification bug in the bottom right. But switching to HTML5 would improve time out issues with "Network busy CANCEL or TRY AGAIN" duh try again. no try again.. GRRR TRY AGAIN!


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## chiguy50

dbattaglia001 said:


> I was able to transfer shows from a Series 3 to Premier with no problem after the software update. Must be an issue with your network.


I agree, but he said he has tried troubleshooting his network and hasn't been able to resolve the issue.


----------



## jgametest

Although we have only being using Netflix briefly since we are mostly HuluPlus users I can understand the frustration of it locking up and spitting out to the main screen when it wanted to. So this refresh is sweet. Just have to remind my kids.. Hey kids only click on the right that says "KIDS" and will be just fine..


----------



## DCIFRTHS

tbb1226 said:


> I can't say for sure that this is related, but since I received this update Friday night, I can no longer transfer recordings between my Premiere and my Series3 HDTiVo. I have tried restarting both, renaming them, turning Video Sharing off and on, and nothing works. The S3 TiVo tells me that the S4 has no recordings (although it does), and the Premier tells me that the S3 "My Shows could not be displayed because of a network problem." There is no network problem that I can detect. Both units can connect to the TiVo server and get updates.
> 
> I had zero issues transferring shows between these two units for over a year before this update. What did you do, TiVo????


I know this isn't what you want to hear, but the new update has improved my transferring of shows between my two S4 boxes. I would frequently lose connectivity between them. A few days before the update, I couldn't even browse the Now Playing list on the remote box. This happened from both S4 boxes. I could also connect to the TiVo service with no problems when the connection error, between boxes, happened.

I haven't had an error since the update. Maybe the "fix" broke something on your setup.


----------



## Leon WIlkinson

nooneuknow said:


> I've seen this as well. PITA, but at least you can recover from it.


I think I only see this when streaming from another TiVo.

It happens if you delete the show or not.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

Leon WIlkinson said:


> I think I only see this when streaming from another TiVo.
> 
> It happens if you delete the show or not.


I wonder if this could be the result of TiVo trying to load an ad and failing. Thoughts?


----------



## ThAbtO

The Netflix causes my Roamio to reboot after about an hour of watching it.


----------



## nooneuknow

DCIFRTHS said:


> I haven't had an error since the update. Maybe the "fix" broke something on your setup.


It sure did on mine. It gave me the problem it was supposed to fix with channels not tuning, which I did not have before. I was afraid exactly that would happen.


----------



## Dan203

nooneuknow said:


> It sure did on mine. It gave me the problem it was supposed to fix with channels not tuning, which I did not have before. I was afraid exactly that would happen.


Are you sure you don't just have a bad tuning adapter. You mentioned in another thread that your cable company just started moving channels over to SDV. Maybe the channels you actually watch just happened to be moved around the time of the software update and you're only just noticing the problem.

Could also be a network related issue. I noticed something really weird the other night. My internet connection was down. While it was down I was surfing through the channels, one by one, just to check out all the new HD channels I get. Some of the channels would cause my TiVo to "lock up" and not respond to the remote for a good 10-15 seconds. The channels would still play, but I could not get the Roamio to respond to the remote for at least 10-15 seconds every time I tuned one of these channels. This was repeatable on these specific channels if I tuned away and then came back. (about 10 I saw) As soon as I got the internet working again (turned out to be a router problem) I tried these channels again and they all worked fine and did not lock up the TiVo. So it seems that having a live internet connect can somehow effect certain channels. During this time I tried disconnecting the TA and none of the suspect channels were SDV, so I'm not sure why not having an internet connection had any effect.


----------



## nooneuknow

Dan203 said:


> Are you sure you don't just have a bad tuning adapter. You mentioned in another thread that your cable company just started moving channels over to SDV. Maybe the channels you actually watch just happened to be moved around the time of the software update and you're only just noticing the problem.
> 
> Could also be a network related issue. I noticed something really weird the other night. My internet connection was down. While it was down I was surfing through the channels, one by one, just to check out all the new HD channels I get. Some of the channels would cause my TiVo to "lock up" and not respond to the remote for a good 10-15 seconds. The channels would still play, but I could not get the Roamio to respond to the remote for at least 10-15 seconds every time I tuned one of these channels. This was repeatable on these specific channels if I tuned away and then came back. (about 10 I saw) As soon as I got the internet working again (turned out to be a router problem) I tried these channels again and they all worked fine and did not lock up the TiVo. So it seems that having a live internet connect can somehow effect certain channels. During this time I tried disconnecting the TA and none of the suspect channels were SDV, so I'm not sure why not having an internet connection had any effect.


Unless I have 6 bad TAs (I had 6 in use on Premiere 2-tuner models, now only need three), that's not it. Same situation with cablecards. I have three extra ones of those as well now, which makes swapping cablecards and TAs as easy as it can be (meaning as easy as getting a good Cox rep on the phone).

I'm also having major issues with H.264 channels that operate in the mid to high 900Mhz range, which were rock solid before the update. Now it is nearly always impossible to get them to work.

Also, Cox has halted, for now, changing channels to SDV and reassigning frequencies. They stopped ~1 month ago. It was only a rough ride in the beginning, when they'd change frequencies, but fail to re-map the cablecards/TAs to tune to the new ones. that's old-news now.

I didn't even have any Roamios when Cox was changing things around. I made sure not to post anything about issues, that could even remotely be related.

Since a buyer of one of my Premieres has paid, but let me defer shipping for a while, I keep that one operable, to offload my content, also giving me a chance to compare platforms for a while.

This update borked both platforms, introducing the very issues that it was supposed to resolve, plus adding issues to H.264 channels, which have worked fine before, during, and after Cox's SDV mapping and related changes.

My internet is all hard-wired, and has been more reliable than it has been in years. I don't have to reboot the CM and/or router, on a schedule, like I used to. I have tried doing so, and rebooting everything, as well as power-cycling all networking switches, etc.

Thanks for the input, but it just seems N/A. It's still appreciated, though.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

ThAbtO said:


> The Netflix causes my Roamio to reboot after about an hour of watching it.


I didn't watch long enough to see if that happens on mine. I'll have to test it.


----------



## Jeff_DML

univers said:


> Since the 20.3.8 update 2 days ago, I've been having a problem when I'm viewing a recording, reach the end and select 'Delete'. (Not sure if it would happen if I chose to keep the recording.)
> 
> Instead of seeing the 'My Shows' screen, I get only black.
> 
> The remote still functions and I can blindly select another recording to play, which then restores the display.
> 
> This has happened probably 5 or 6 times in 2 days, so somewhere between 10 and 20% of the time. Some of these were downloaded videos (CNET), others recordings from cable.


Seeing this too, seems to happens almost every time I delete/stop? a program


----------



## Jeff_DML

New Netflix is nice with 1080p24. It fixes the output to 1080p24 then adjust the quality without changing it.


----------



## NorthAlabama

updated yesterday (signed up on priority update page last wednesday), no negative issues so far, and love the new captioning.


----------



## spaldingclan

I still haven't gotten the update even though I signed up on the priority page


----------



## dave13077

I have discovered an issue that has appeared a couple of times since the update. If you are watching a recorded program and get out of it before it is finished, in my case about 1/2 through, it doesn't save the place you were at. It doesn't show "Resume" you have to select "Play" and fast forward to where you left off. This has happened twice so far. Once when I tried to resume a program on the same Tivo I originally was using and another time when I tried (different program) to continue a recorded show from my Mini. Not sure if this has been mentioned yet..


----------



## jgametest

We only have a premiere XL with no Stream or NAS drive attached. Perhaps because we are not using extra add-ins to the port the software is reacting differently. Are you playing from Groups of videos or one individual.

My daughter has been playing a Group of Team Umizoomi videos 1 of 7 and the group player is fine. I ran a video this morning that I started watching last night and it continued where it was. Have you tried to reboot since the update perhaps a hiccup in the system?


----------



## steve614

dave13077 said:


> I have discovered an issue that has appeared a couple of times since the update. If you are watching a recorded program and get out of it before it is finished, in my case about 1/2 through, it doesn't save the place you were at. It doesn't show "Resume" you have to select "Play" and fast forward to where you left off. This has happened twice so far. Once when I tried to resume a program on the same Tivo I originally was using and another time when I tried (different program) to continue a recorded show from my Mini. Not sure if this has been mentioned yet..


This has been mentioned before, so either it was never fixed, or the recent update broke it again.
Try to remember to hit the pause button before you back out of the program. That seems to force the Tivo into applying the resume bookmark.


----------



## FrodoB

nooneuknow said:


> Unless I have 6 bad TAs (I had 6 in use on Premiere 2-tuner models, now only need three), that's not it. Same situation with cablecards. I have three extra ones of those as well now, which makes swapping cablecards and TAs as easy as it can be (meaning as easy as getting a good Cox rep on the phone).
> 
> I'm also having major issues with H.264 channels that operate in the mid to high 900Mhz range, which were rock solid before the update. Now it is nearly always impossible to get them to work.
> 
> Also, Cox has halted, for now, changing channels to SDV and reassigning frequencies. They stopped ~1 month ago. It was only a rough ride in the beginning, when they'd change frequencies, but fail to re-map the cablecards/TAs to tune to the new ones. that's old-news now.
> 
> I didn't even have any Roamios when Cox was changing things around. I made sure not to post anything about issues, that could even remotely be related.
> 
> Since a buyer of one of my Premieres has paid, but let me defer shipping for a while, I keep that one operable, to offload my content, also giving me a chance to compare platforms for a while.
> 
> This update borked both platforms, introducing the very issues that it was supposed to resolve, plus adding issues to H.264 channels, which have worked fine before, during, and after Cox's SDV mapping and related changes.
> 
> My internet is all hard-wired, and has been more reliable than it has been in years. I don't have to reboot the CM and/or router, on a schedule, like I used to. I have tried doing so, and rebooting everything, as well as power-cycling all networking switches, etc.
> 
> Thanks for the input, but it just seems N/A. It's still appreciated, though.


Our Premiere 4 that got 20.3.8 has been having issues holding onto channels since the update. Things that were rock-solid before no longer are. I *believe* it's isolated to SDV channels. I've rebooted our TA on that TiVo twice, and each time it connects up and things are fine for a bit but then degrade later. I'm getting 37db on all tuners and signal readings in the low to mid 90s.


----------



## nooneuknow

FrodoB said:


> Our Premiere 4 that got 20.3.8 has been having issues holding onto channels since the update. Things that were rock-solid before no longer are. I *believe* it's isolated to SDV channels. I've rebooted our TA on that TiVo twice, and each time it connects up and things are fine for a bit but then degrade later. I'm getting 37db on all tuners and signal readings in the low to mid 90s.


Thanks for taking the time to post this, and letting me know I'm not alone in having something that worked rock-solid pre-update, and now doesn't post-update.


----------



## spaldingclan

i finally got the update after tweeting to Margret...I don't notice anything different...should I?


----------



## soccerdad72

univers said:


> Since the 20.3.8 update 2 days ago, I've been having a problem when I'm viewing a recording, reach the end and select 'Delete'. (Not sure if it would happen if I chose to keep the recording.)
> 
> Instead of seeing the 'My Shows' screen, I get only black.
> 
> The remote still functions and I can blindly select another recording to play, which then restores the display.
> 
> This has happened probably 5 or 6 times in 2 days, so somewhere between 10 and 20% of the time. Some of these were downloaded videos (CNET), others recordings from cable.


I'm seeing this too, in fact it's the reason I checked and discovered I received the 20.3.8 update. It happens pretty consistently. TiVo Premiere XL, watching previously recorded shows from cable.

Never saw this behavior before.


----------



## CoxInPHX

univers said:


> Since the 20.3.8 update 2 days ago, I've been having a problem when I'm viewing a recording, reach the end and select 'Delete'. (Not sure if it would happen if I chose to keep the recording.)
> 
> Instead of seeing the 'My Shows' screen, I get only black.
> 
> The remote still functions and I can blindly select another recording to play, which then restores the display.
> 
> This has happened probably 5 or 6 times in 2 days, so somewhere between 10 and 20% of the time. Some of these were downloaded videos (CNET), others recordings from cable.





soccerdad72 said:


> I'm seeing this too, in fact it's the reason I checked and discovered I received the 20.3.8 update. It happens pretty consistently. TiVo Premiere XL, watching previously recorded shows from cable.
> 
> Never saw this behavior before.


I have seen this a few times on my Roamio Pro, Last night even the "Format" button on the back would not reboot the unit, I had to unplug the unit. The LiveTV Video was still playing in the Preview Window but no commands would work, I left it for 15 minutes and tried to reset the UI, but nothing.


----------



## Bierboy

spaldingclan said:


> i finally got the update after tweeting to Margret...I don't notice anything different...should I?


Did you read this entire thread?  See the release notes Margret posted at the beginning of the thread.


----------



## shamilian

> Originally Posted by univers View Post
> Since the 20.3.8 update 2 days ago, I've been having a problem when I'm viewing a recording, reach the end and select 'Delete'. (Not sure if it would happen if I chose to keep the recording.)
> 
> Instead of seeing the 'My Shows' screen, I get only black.
> 
> The remote still functions and I can blindly select another recording to play, which then restores the display.





soccerdad72 said:


> I'm seeing this too, in fact it's the reason I checked and discovered I received the 20.3.8 update. It happens pretty consistently. TiVo Premiere XL, watching previously recorded shows from cable.
> 
> Never saw this behavior before.


I am having this issue so far I have noticed it on 2 of 6 tivos.

It only happens if I select delete from the pop up dialogue at the end of a recording. If I select keep the menu system works fine.

If you have the video in the corner on, then you see that as well as the black screen.

If I press liveTV or Guide then everything works again. Although I have lost my place in the My Shows list. ( The Tivo button does not work.)

I have played with the input button, thought it may be an hdmi issue, but nothing brings back the menus other than those 2 buttons.

The Tivos did not do this when I first got the update, but it was doing it consistently earlier today. But I just checked and it is not doing it any longer...

It may have something to do with the daily updates and the extra advertising inserted into the menu system. Maybe someone did not fill all the fields in correctly in one of those pop-up advertisements that sometimes get inserted in the delete/keep dialogue.


----------



## UCLABB

Dan203 said:


> Are you sure you don't just have a bad tuning adapter. You mentioned in another thread that your cable company just started moving channels over to SDV. Maybe the channels you actually watch just happened to be moved around the time of the software update and you're only just noticing the problem.
> 
> Could also be a network related issue. I noticed something really weird the other night. My internet connection was down. While it was down I was surfing through the channels, one by one, just to check out all the new HD channels I get. Some of the channels would cause my TiVo to "lock up" and not respond to the remote for a good 10-15 seconds. The channels would still play, but I could not get the Roamio to respond to the remote for at least 10-15 seconds every time I tuned one of these channels. This was repeatable on these specific channels if I tuned away and then came back. (about 10 I saw) As soon as I got the internet working again (turned out to be a router problem) I tried these channels again and they all worked fine and did not lock up the TiVo. So it seems that having a live internet connect can somehow effect certain channels. During this time I tried disconnecting the TA and none of the suspect channels were SDV, so I'm not sure why not having an internet connection had any effect.


Yep. Had the very same situation. My router was down and I had the same TiVo symptoms. I was about to reboot the TiVo when a bunch of the remote commands took effect. I don't know whether the symptom kept up as we left the house and when we came back I got the router back up and working. I have MOCA and I'm thinking that maybe it's more of a home network problem rather than just not having internet service? I've lost internet service and never had the TiVos act up except for the connection message.


----------



## lpwcomp

Well, I am extremely annoyed. One of my Premieres (apparently) d/l'd the update as the network status was "Pending Restart". Prior to checking the status, I had started recordings on both tuners of shows that were in the live buffers - "NFL Live" and "Holiday Affair". I wqas going to restart after the recording s finished. I lleft the room for @5mins tp do something else. When I came back, I was presented with the "Installing an update..." screen. I suspect that after the d/l, the TiVo schedules a restart for a time with no scheduled recordings and doesn't check to see if it is actively recording anything. It may ask prior to dong the restart, but I wasn't there to say no.

Bottom line - I missed about 19 mins of both programs, "Holiday Affair" being the more annoying loss. It is showing againg tomorrow but it is on HMC and will thus have commercials (I was recording from TCM) and might have cuts.

Since the Premiere will probably only have one more update, it's too late to fix for that platform. However, it should be addressed for the Roamio.


----------



## MHunter1

univers said:


> Instead of seeing the My Shows screen, I get only black


There has been an ongoing problem for over a year where the menu's _*background*_ turns black, but are you saying the _*entire screen*_ now turns black?


----------



## shamilian

MHunter1 said:


> There has been an ongoing problem for over a year where the menu's _*background*_ turns black, but are you saying the _*entire screen*_ now turns black?


Yes, this is the HD UI and the whole screen is back no lettering can be seen...
The old issue of the background being black refers to the old UI which stored the background as a video which sometimes got lost or damaged.

This is a brand new bug!


----------



## TiVoToo

univers said:


> Since the 20.3.8 update 2 days ago, I've been having a problem when I'm viewing a recording, reach the end and select 'Delete'. (Not sure if it would happen if I chose to keep the recording.)
> 
> Instead of seeing the 'My Shows' screen, I get only black.
> 
> The remote still functions and I can blindly select another recording to play, which then restores the display.
> 
> This has happened probably 5 or 6 times in 2 days, so somewhere between 10 and 20% of the time. Some of these were downloaded videos (CNET), others recordings from cable.


I noticed this same behavior after my Premiere was updated to 20.3.8. I would end up pressing Live TV, then TiVo button to restore the HD GUI.
Another weird thing with this update. Before the update, whenever I would change to a new channel (either using up/dn, Guide, or direct input of channel number), the TiVo would switch to the new channel with the channel banner displayed, but no video yet displayed, then a fraction of a second later, the audio would come on immediately followed by video. Now, many times when I switch to a new channel, the channel banner is displayed over a blank screen, but a short fraction of second later the banner disappears followed by a long fraction of a second of unformatted video, then a fraction of a second of blank screen followed by video in correct format with no banner. It doesn't happen with every channel every time, but is frequent enough that it is annoying. Because I've been Christmas busy, I've not yet had time to experiment to isolate whether cause is associated with HDMI, T/A, or change in video format between channels. I do know it happens with both OTA and cable channels.

[Update] Channel changing anomaly was related to output format. My Premiere has had Output Video Format as 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i for as long as I can remember. Changing OVF to 1080i only (which matches the display) eliminated the weird channel changing behavior. Why I never noticed this behavior until 20.3.8 is a mystery.


----------



## MMG

How long after getting 20.3.8 does the new Netflix kick in?


----------



## shamilian

TiVoToo said:


> I noticed this same behavior after my Premiere was updated to 20.3.8. I would end up pressing Live TV, then TiVo button to restore the HD GUI.
> Another weird thing with this update. Before the update, whenever I would change to a new channel (either using up/dn, Guide, or direct input of channel number), the TiVo would switch to the new channel with the channel banner displayed, but no video yet displayed, then a fraction of a second later, the audio would come on immediately followed by video. Now, many times when I switch to a new channel, the channel banner is displayed over a blank screen, but a short fraction of second later the banner disappears followed by a long fraction of a second of unformatted video, then a fraction of a second of blank screen followed by video in correct format with no banner. It doesn't happen with every channel every time, but is frequent enough that it is annoying. Because I've been Christmas busy, I've not yet had time to experiment to isolate whether cause is associated with HDMI, T/A, or change in video format between channels. I do know it happens with both OTA and cable channels.
> 
> [Update] Channel changing anomaly was related to output format. My Premiere has had Output Video Format as 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i for as long as I can remember. Changing OVF to 1080i only (which matches the display) eliminated the weird channel changing behavior. Why I never noticed this behavior until 20.3.8 is a mystery.


I think this is a new 20.3.8 bug in their software. They are doing a bad job of changing the resolution of the video /menu this is causing many issues, including the black menu bug. The only known workaround is to only use 1080i without 720p.

The cause seems to be that Tivo Software switches or forgets to switch formats at times.


----------



## shamilian

shamilian said:


> I am having this issue so far I have noticed it on 2 of 6 tivos.
> 
> It only happens if I select delete from the pop up dialogue at the end of a recording. If I select keep the menu system works fine.
> 
> If you have the video in the corner on, then you see that as well as the black screen.
> 
> If I press liveTV or Guide then everything works again. Although I have lost my place in the My Shows list. ( The Tivo button does not work.)
> 
> I have played with the input button, thought it may be an hdmi issue, but nothing brings back the menus other than those 2 buttons.
> 
> The Tivos did not do this when I first got the update, but it was doing it consistently earlier today. But I just checked and it is not doing it any longer...
> 
> It may have something to do with the daily updates and the extra advertising inserted into the menu system. Maybe someone did not fill all the fields in correctly in one of those pop-up advertisements that sometimes get inserted in the delete/keep dialogue.


This appears to be related to Tivo messing up resolution switching between the menus and the video playback. If I allow resolutions of 720p and 1080i Tivo will mess-up after a while. It happens on all my Tivos.

The only workaround is to select 1080i only....:down:


----------



## mikeyts

MMG said:


> How long after getting 20.3.8 does the new Netflix kick in?


I've been doing a few connections a day on my Premiere for the past 4 days and it hasn't loaded it yet. (I used it on the Premiere for several hours yesterday, kicking it off from my PC with kmttg). Is 20.3.8 officially released now?


----------



## Jed1

I got the new update yesterday on both my Premiere 4s but I did not got the Opera App store yet. I tried connecting to the service and restarting twice but no luck. I guess I will have to wait to TiVo pushes the App store to my two TiVos.

The guide issue is resolved but a glitch remains from the last update were the guide will stop at 1:00PM the last day of listings instead of going to and beyond 8:00PM of the last day of listings. The TiVo Live guide goes to 8:00PM of the last day of listings.
I can go beyond 1:00PM by advancing the date using option A in the guide and it will take you beyond 1:00PM of the last day but if you go backward and try going forward you will end back at 1:00PM of the last day of listings.

I also noticed that the resolution stays at the resolution of the channel you are on when you enter the settings menu. If you are on a 1080i channel then the resolution will stay at 1080i when you enter the settings menu. If you are on a 720p channel then the resolution will stay at 720p. I do believe this applies to all of TiVo Central. This makes going in and out of TiVo Central much faster as you do not have to wait for the HDMI handshakes when the resolution changes if you have the TiVo set up for native resolution.


----------



## Jed1

I had two glitches with the video while in the TiVo menu system. 
The first one is I was in a portion of the menu system that is not in HD yet and when I backed out to the main TiVo menu system the video window had no picture or sound. In order to get that back I had to hit the live button and then either channel up or down or switch tuners to get the video and sound to work again. I checked the buffer for the channel I had on while in the menu system and it did not miss anything so this indicates that there is a problem with the HDMI signal changes while in the menu system.
The second issue was I came to the end of a recording and when asked to save or delete the recording I ended up with a blank or black picture. I can hear the audio from the video in the window and the TiVo sounds were working as I was hitting the buttons on the remote. To fix this I just hit the live button and the picture came back. There was no problem with the video when I checked the buffer.
I do believe this is caused by the lack of a HDMI handshake when the resolution changes while in the TiVo menu system. TiVo eliminated the handshake in the menu system in order to speed up the navigation of the menu system. I do not know if the Roamio has this issue because it has a 1080p selection for the video output and they can make 1080p the default resolution of the HD menu system.
Of course if you set the resolution of the Premiere box to either 1080i or 720p then this issue will probably stop. Using component will also work as it is an analog connection and does not need to make a handshake with the display for HDCP. I do not want a fixed resolution as I want my display to do the conversion for the incoming video signals to 1080p60 or 1080p24.

Also concerning the guide bug that I mentioned in the previous post I noticed that the TiVo Live guide will go out to 8:00 PM of the last day of the listing and the TiVo grid guide will only go out to 1:00 PM of the last day of listings. You end up not seeing the last 7 hours of the listings. 
You can go beyond the last day of listings in both guides by hitting the A button and selecting a date beyond the end of the listings but if you move backwards and then forward while in the grid guide it will jump back to 1:00 PM of the last day. This bug was introduced in the previous firmware and included the bug where you would jump back to the current time if you where else where in the guide. That bug was corrected and this bug remains.

Also I still have not received the Opera App store yet. According to TiVo's website I should call if the App store does not show up but some people are saying here that it will show up later. My question is which one is correct? 
I tried the forced connections and even restarting the TiVo and the HDUI but I had no luck.
Here is what TiVo has on its website just check under the trouble shooting section and it tells you to call them.
http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2794/kw/opera tv apps

The reason I am bringing this up I received the general roll out of the update and according to them this should be included. The people that received the update early had to wait a few weeks because the App store wasn't ready when the bug fix was.


----------



## jrtroo

Its irrelevant. The store will not offer much of interest. It's the potential that is exciting.


----------



## keithg1964

TiVoMargret said:


> The first batch of TiVo Premiere customers were authorized for the 20.3.8 software update tonight.
> 
> Priority list sign-up is here: http://tivo.com/priority
> 
> Here are some of the changes:
> 
> - new transparency options for Closed Captions
> - support for new apps (some of which may start appearing next week)
> - support for "low battery" message for new RF remotes
> - fixed an issue where the grid Guide didn't keep its place after scheduling a recording
> - now will retry tuning requests after a Tuning Adapter fails to respond
> - improved some issues related to transferring shows between Series4 and Series5 DVRs
> 
> Note: there is nothing in this update related to Wireless N Adapters. We are still trying to understand the issue. I would like to hear if any of the people that are having issues with the N Adapter find things get better when they update to 20.3.8.


Just wondering why the release notes did not include the info on the back-to back recording padding feature that will only use one tuner.


----------



## haguea

I also started getting the black screen after deleting a program. Hitting live clears it. I have a Premiere.


----------



## shamilian

haguea said:


> I also started getting the black screen after deleting a program. Hitting live clears it. I have a Premiere.


The only real work around is to choose 1080i/1080p only output if you also choose 720p then the bug will re-occur....


----------



## Duke

haguea said:


> I also started getting the black screen after deleting a program. Hitting live clears it. I have a Premiere.


I am seeing the exact same thing that multiple folks have reported in this thread (black screen after hitting Delete); started after the 20.3.8 update.


----------



## MHunter1

Users who received v20.3.8 early have been discussing this topic here:

www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=512728


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## Jed1

I contacted Margret via email today and she asked me to send her my TSN's and also describe the video issues with TiVo Central. I also described the guide issue to. I do not think they are aware of these issues as she is not really monitoring this forum. Besides today the last time she logged into this site was back in December.

I mentioned a while back that if you have issues with a update always post it in her update threads as I do not think she has time to be reading dozens of threads to get information about bugs. It is easier for her to monitor the threads she started.


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## slowbiscuit

Jed1 said:


> Of course if you set the resolution of the Premiere box to either 1080i or 720p then this issue will probably stop. Using component will also work as it is an analog connection and does not need to make a handshake with the display for HDCP. I do not want a fixed resolution as I want my display to do the conversion for the incoming video signals to 1080p60 or 1080p24.


It will stop (black screen and other res change issues), and you'll probably not be able to see the diff with 1080i/p fixed vs. native but you won't know until you try it.

And Tivo is only going to send 1080p for streamed sources (Netflix mainly) since there is no broadcast TV using it, so everything will go to your TV as 1080i. I see absolutely no diff with Tivo sending native or converting everything to 1080i, picture-wise.


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## Jed1

slowbiscuit said:


> It will stop (black screen and other res change issues), and you'll probably not be able to see the diff with 1080i/p fixed vs. native but you won't know until you try it.
> 
> And Tivo is only going to send 1080p for streamed sources (Netflix mainly) since there is no broadcast TV using it, so everything will go to your TV as 1080i. I see absolutely no diff with Tivo sending native or converting everything to 1080i, picture-wise.


I tried a fixed resolution before I posted, I lose some detail on the 720p channels. My downstairs TiVo goes through my Onkyo receiver and I have my Kuro set for 24 frame playback. My upstairs TiVo goes directly to my other Kuro and I feed the audio to my older Onkyo receiver by optical.

The videos in the Movie Fon App are in 1080p. I was surprised to see that.


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## Jed1

I had to contact Margret to get the App store and I received it on early Thursday morning. I really like the Accuweather App. I ran into one problem with the Accuweather App, if I click on the map button I get a pop up message saying "Forbidden URL". I also find it hard to navigate the store with the remote as your options for button clicks are limited. It seems it would be easier with a mouse and keyboard.

I also filed three bug reports related to this update with Margret and they are looking into them. I do not think anybody at TiVo is really following these threads on this forum so I would recommend sending your complaints directly to TiVo. I also recommend that any issue with bugs related to these updates should be posted in the threads that Margret starts as I do not think she has the time to read all the various threads on this forum.


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## NorthAlabama

Jed1 said:


> I really like the Accuweather App. I ran into one problem with the Accuweather App, if I click on the map button I get a pop up message saying "Forbidden URL".


i've seen the message on other apps, too, but can't remember where. is there an online avenue to report these when they happen?


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## shamilian

slowbiscuit said:


> It will stop (black screen and other res change issues), and you'll probably not be able to see the diff with 1080i/p fixed vs. native but you won't know until you try it.
> 
> And Tivo is only going to send 1080p for streamed sources (Netflix mainly) since there is no broadcast TV using it, so everything will go to your TV as 1080i. I see absolutely no diff with Tivo sending native or converting everything to 1080i, picture-wise.


I definitely see the difference on content 720p converted to 1080i.

They need to fix this.

I am disappointed they went ahead with a full roll-out of this release, since I reported the problem within a few day of priority list roll-out.

Why do they bother with the staggered roll-out if they don't fix bugs reported during that period ?


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## Jed1

NorthAlabama said:


> i've seen the message on other apps, too, but can't remember where. is there an online avenue to report these when they happen?


I sent an email to Margret but I have not heard anything back. Other than this I have no clue where to report bug issues with the Opera TV Apps Store.


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## Jed1

shamilian said:


> I definitely see the difference on content 720p converted to 1080i.
> 
> They need to fix this.
> 
> I am disappointed they went ahead with a full roll-out of this release, since I reported the problem within a few day of priority list roll-out.
> 
> Why do they bother with the staggered roll-out if they don't fix bugs reported during that period ?


It is a really bad idea to convert a progressive image to an interlaced image only to have it converted back to a progressive image by the display. The only time that would be a good idea if your display was natively 1080i but these types of displays have not been made for at least ten years now.
DLP's, LCD's, and Plasma displays are progressively scanned fixed pixel digital displays, 720p or 1080p. 
It is best to let the display to all the conversion work as this eliminates the possibility of errors happening from to much processing by other devices. Also I would not recommend using component cabling as this converts the digital signal to analog and then has to be converted back to digital at the display.


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## slowbiscuit

It's entirely in the eyes of the beholder - what you say may technically be true but IMO only the best displays will see a diff. For the vast majority there is no downside to avoiding this issue with fixed res output, and it comes with the side benefit of not seeing mode sync delays going from 720p to 1080i/p.


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## Jed1

While using TiVo Central a week ago on Friday night my UI rebooted itself, which never happened to me before. When the TiVo menu came back I noticed I had the new Pandora App and the icon for the Opera TV Store changed from a big red O to a white bag with a small red O. I am not certain but I think the icons for the Tech Crunch App and MovieFone App changed also.
I manually rebooted the UI on my upstairs TiVo to get the new Apps.

I also watched and deleted two shows and did not experience the black menu bug but got clobbered with it on Sunday night every time I watched a recorded program and deleted it when done.
I noticed that the resolution of the TiVo Central menu retains the resolution of the HD channel you are watching and this speeds up navigation by eliminating the need for an HDMI handshake. The problem is parts of the HD Menu system is still not HD and most of the time the handshake will not occur and cause the menu to be black. This does not affect Live TV or any recordings being made.
If they make the entire menu system in HD then this problem will go away.

I guess this problem will be addressed in the next update which I believe will change TiVo Central on the Premieres to the one used on the Roamios. I wonder if this will also remove the SD Menu system from the Premieres.


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## moose53

Jed1 said:


> While using TiVo Central a week ago on Friday night my UI rebooted itself, which never happened to me before. When the TiVo menu came back I noticed I had the new Pandora App and the icon for the Opera TV Store changed from a big red O to a white bag with a small red O. I am not certain but I think the icons for the Tech Crunch App and MovieFone App changed also.
> I manually rebooted the UI on my upstairs TiVo to get the new Apps.
> 
> I also watched and deleted two shows and did not experience the black menu bug but got clobbered with it on Sunday night every time I watched a recorded program and deleted it when done.
> I noticed that the resolution of the TiVo Central menu retains the resolution of the HD channel you are watching and this speeds up navigation by eliminating the need for an HDMI handshake. The problem is parts of the HD Menu system is still not HD and most of the time the handshake will not occur and cause the menu to be black. This does not affect Live TV or any recordings being made.
> If they make the entire menu system in HD then this problem will go away.
> 
> I guess this problem will be addressed in the next update which I believe will change TiVo Central on the Premieres to the one used on the Roamios. I wonder if this will also remove the SD Menu system from the Premieres.


This whole update is "weird". I woke up at 2AM this morning and I had the 'old' Netflix interface back. I woke up again at 6AM and I had the 'new' Netflix interface again.

I kept going back and forth between 'old' and 'new' Youtube, too. It hasn't happened for a week or two.

I worked on senior level helpdesks for over 13 years before I retired. Every time they rolled out software updates while people were using it, it failed. This seems very familiar.

Oh, I don't use the HD menus. There's too much busy stuff going on and I can't see the text on the screen. I hope they don't get rid of the SD .. I'll be sitting 6 inches from my television with a magnifying glass


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## Jed1

I reduced the number of black screen issues by setting the HDMI video format to YCbCr444 on my two Pioneer Kuros, as this is the native output of the TiVos. I forgot I had this set to auto as the Pace RNG 200 outputted RGB video.
I only get the black screen problem once in a while now instead of all the time. I still have all the output resolutions checked as setting it to 1080i did not eliminate the issue and I had a decline in video quality on the 720p and 480i/p channels.


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## alanpgh

Setting to 1080i/p on my Premiere XL has worked for me.
No problems related to this for the past few weeks.
I still think a fix is important in the next Tivo Software Update.


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## alanpgh

On a different topic, my WiFi C133 error messages have gone away since adding an Apple Airport Express set up as a range extender in my system.
No more C133 problems for the past 3-4 days.

I think Tivo can fix this with some sort of timeout filter in the next software update.

Thanks!


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## Jed1

alanpgh said:


> Setting to 1080i/p on my Premiere XL has worked for me.
> No problems related to this for the past few weeks.
> I still think a fix is important in the next Tivo Software Update.


Setting the resolution 1080i/p reduced the problem but I did have the black menu bug occur. Fixing the HDMI resolution setting on my Kuro reduced the black menu problem but it does occur from time to time.

I agree that this has to be fixed in a future firmware update. The best way for TiVo to fix this is to make the entire menu system in HD as there is still portions of the menu in SD and this is what trips the black menu bug from time to time.


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## sharkster

I don't know if Marget continues reading the updates threads down the line, or if this is a good place to mention this, or if anybody even cares, but ...

My biggest wish for a future (soon w/b good, like tomorrow. heh) update would be allowing the ability to change a channel number on a Season Pass. 

Once again, we are coming up on a huge channel number change with Charter in my market (on Feb 18th). I remember when this occurred a couple of years ago and it was truly a nightmare for many of my well over 200 Season Passes between two Premieres. 

When channel numbers change, there is no way to update a Season Pass and it was such a drag. For the shows that were currently airing, I had to delete old season passes and start new ones. But for the shows on hiatus I had to make a list and watch for them because there was no way to just change the channel number or re-do an existing one since there were no airings to choose for creating a new season pass. 

This, to me anyway (and admittedly I know squat), sure seems like it would be a very simple thing to plug into the Season Pass options. I am dreading these changes coming up, although we will have a lot of new channels and that is a good thing. But, if it goes like last time, my Tivos won't be able to continue season passes properly for the ones that are on different numbers after the change.

My biggest hope is that Tribune Media actually does the changes at the time they occur. Last time, it also did the changes like a month early and that wreaked havoc because (for example) Tivo no longer thought that Showtime was on the number 525 so there was no way to even create a recording, since that channel number didn't exist for them - and on it went for scores of other channels that were getting brand new numbers. The good thing was that Tivo was able to get that fixed and things went back to normal until the actual time of the number changes.

Anyway, to the Tivo genies, this is my one big wish.


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## alanpgh

I think Tivo automatically fixes the channel numbers on season passes.

You might want to email margret about this.


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## pmiranda

TiVo definitely automatically tries to follow channel number changes. Assuming the channel name remains the same of course. It helps to not have duplicates in your channels.


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## sharkster

Thanks to you both for the advice! This was so frustrating last time. I'm going to see if things automatically adjust through to the Season Passes and go from there, I guess. Looks like a bunch of them will sort of change names. For example, HBOHDP (HBO HD Pacific) will change to HBO HD West, etc, throughout all the premium channels. Lot of that. Looks like most of the non-premium channels might just work out (yay!). 

Last time I think it was most problematic because of the premium channels. I ended up having to do what I mentioned above with some 80+ shows. It was a PITA and frustrating, to say the least.

I'll have to find the info for Marget. I didn't know I could email her. Nice!  She always seems helpful and nice.


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## alanpgh

Margret's email address: (note that she spells her name differently. see below.)
[email protected]


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## sharkster

Thank You so much, Alan! 

Done and done. Maybe I'm the only one for whom this is always a major PITA, but maybe others would find this update helpful too.


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## alanpgh

Margret is very helpful.

She is also on Twitter at:
https://twitter.com/tivodesign


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## PedjaR

sharkster said:


> ...
> 
> My biggest wish for a future (soon w/b good, like tomorrow. heh) update would be allowing the ability to change a channel number on a Season Pass.
> 
> ...


Have you tried changing Season Pass Info/Modify Season Pass/Channel?


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## sharkster

PedjaR said:


> Have you tried changing Season Pass Info/Modify Season Pass/Channel?


I'm not seeing that option. I just went into one Season Pass and looked for an option to modify the channel, but there was no option offered.


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## ThAbtO

In Season Pass manager, go to your show, then down to upcoming, right to the future show on the other channel listed, should have a create Season Pass. Then, you can delete the older one.


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## PedjaR

sharkster said:


> I'm not seeing that option. I just went into one Season Pass and looked for an option to modify the channel, but there was no option offered.


In Season Pass manager, go to your show, click select.
Click right to get into Modify Season Pass.
Click Select.
Scroll down until you get to Channel.

At this point, if this is the only channel the series shows on, it is not editable, and there is nothing you can do this way. However, if there are multiple channels with the series of the same name, it will let you pick which one to use (click left or right arrow). I have seen this when there is a series that has a lots of reruns of old episodes on one channel and new episodes on another. I was wondering if the new channel actually having the series will show in addition to the old one. Probably won't work unless the series has episodes in the current guide (next 11-12 days).

Wait, I just tried this and it does not work on an existing season pass. Channel is editable only when creating new season pass. Sorry, my bad.


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## sharkster

PedjaR said:


> In Season Pass manager, go to your show, click select.
> Click right to get into Modify Season Pass.
> Click Select.
> Scroll down until you get to Channel.
> 
> At this point, if this is the only channel the series shows on, it is not editable, and there is nothing you can do this way. However, if there are multiple channels with the series of the same name, it will let you pick which one to use (click left or right arrow). I have seen this when there is a series that has a lots of reruns of old episodes on one channel and new episodes on another. I was wondering if the new channel actually having the series will show in addition to the old one. Probably won't work unless the series has episodes in the current guide (next 11-12 days).
> 
> Wait, I just tried this and it does not work on an existing season pass. Channel is editable only when creating new season pass. Sorry, my bad.


Hey, thanks so much for trying!  I really appreciate you looking at this. It seems like this would be such an easy thing for them to make possible. It would really avoid the headache of having to wait for the show to be in the guide, create a new SP, and delete the old one, or to go in and 'wishlist' a ton of shows, which is more of a PITA than it's worth, IMO.

I'm just listing the shows that could be affected. Yeah, I'm kind of a nut with list-making.  It helps me to organize and feel comfortable that I'm not missing anything. I actually only have 33 SP shows on my living room Tivo that will be affected and, I'm sure, quite a few less on the bdrm Tivo because that one has about 85% Discovery ID shows, and that channel number isn't changing (thank goodness for that!).

Most of what will have to be re-done are Premium channel shows (HBO & Sho) because they actually change the names of the various channels within just HBO and Showtime. If they didn't change the names (i.e. HBOP to HBO West, etc) the conversion might be seamless.


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## sharkster

ThAbtO said:


> In Season Pass manager, go to your show, then down to upcoming, right to the future show on the other channel listed, should have a create Season Pass. Then, you can delete the older one.


Yeah, that's how I do them. I figured that to be the easiest way when we had a bunch of channel number changes a couple of years ago.


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## sharkster

Does anybody else have problems with single click rewind (one arrow) since the last update? When I just want to back up a smidge, whether it's live viewing or a recording, it stalls out. It just starts to rewind and stops. Sometimes it will continue after a few moments but often it won't go anywhere unless I hit RW again (putting it on two arrows).

In the ten years I've had Tivos (8 years with S2 machines and 2 years with S4 Premieres) I've never had this experience, until just lately.

BTW, I don't think it's any one piece of equipment because it happens on both of my Tivos.


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## tatergator1

sharkster said:


> Does anybody else have problems with single click rewind (one arrow) since the last update? When I just want to back up a smidge, whether it's live viewing or a recording, it stalls out. It just starts to rewind and stops. Sometimes it will continue after a few moments but often it won't go anywhere unless I hit RW again (putting it on two arrows).
> 
> In the ten years I've had Tivos (8 years with S2 machines and 2 years with S4 Premieres) I've never had this experience, until just lately.
> 
> BTW, I don't think it's any one piece of equipment because it happens on both of my Tivos.


I've not noticed this. Have you noticed a pattern regarding channels it occurs on, or does it seem to happen for everything? There are some nuances of MPEG2 encoding that can make 1x REW/FF behave badly.


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## sharkster

tatergator1 said:


> I've not noticed this. Have you noticed a pattern regarding channels it occurs on, or does it seem to happen for everything? There are some nuances of MPEG2 encoding that can make 1x REW/FF behave badly.


Hi Gator! It seems to happen across the board and on both live tv and recordings.


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## Nargg

I just wanted to through in my 2 cents on this update. 1. YouTube stinks. Please bring back the old YouTube that was faster and didn't flake out or cause my TiVo to reboot. 2. speaking of reboot, what's up with that? My XL4 now reboots randomly many times a week since getting the update. This is not fun anymore. I'd hate to dump TiVo, but if it continues to interrupt my TV watching to reboot or mess up recordings then I see no reason to have it any more.


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## alanpgh

No problems here. I have a Tivo Premiere XL4.

Problems went away when I added a range extender to my Wi-Fi.

Good Luck!


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## slowbiscuit

Nargg said:


> I just wanted to through in my 2 cents on this update. 1. YouTube stinks. Please bring back the old YouTube that was faster and didn't flake out or cause my TiVo to reboot. 2. speaking of reboot, what's up with that? My XL4 now reboots randomly many times a week since getting the update. This is not fun anymore. I'd hate to dump TiVo, but if it continues to interrupt my TV watching to reboot or mess up recordings then I see no reason to have it any more.


If your XL4 is randomly rebooting that often you most likely have a hard drive issue, it's not the update. My Elite has been rock-solid.


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## CoxInPHX

slowbiscuit said:


> If your XL4 is randomly rebooting that often you most likely have a hard drive issue, it's not the update. My Elite has been rock-solid.


I would normally agree,

But, the last 10 days or so, all my Tivos have been randomly rebooting at different times and frequency. I have tried to study the logs after it has happened, but have not been able to determine why.

Roamio Pro - once every 1 - 2 days
Elite/XL4 - once to 3x's per day
Premiere - every 2 - 3 days (Premiere has a brand new 2TB HDD)

Something odd is happening.


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## jrtroo

Are they on a power filter or UPS? In the spring when the weather changes there are lots of things the power company is doing to get ready, including operating capacitors on the line, which changes its impedance.


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## nooneuknow

CoxInPHX said:


> I would normally agree,
> 
> But, the last 10 days or so, all my Tivos have been randomly rebooting at different times and frequency. I have tried to study the logs after it has happened, but have not been able to determine why.
> 
> Roamio Pro - once every 1 - 2 days
> Elite/XL4 - once to 3x's per day
> Premiere - every 2 - 3 days (Premiere has a brand new 2TB HDD)
> 
> Something odd is happening.


Add me to this list.

I'm only running Roamios. But, for about two weeks, daily reboots at random times, sometimes more than once a day, happening when they are recording, not recording - but in use for Live TV, as well as one that sits in standby 99% of the time (which is the one rebooting the most).

A symptom is that while new recordings occur, the drive usage bar won't advance beyond exactly 50%, which is not right.

I suspected hard drive issues too. I use WD Red NAS 3TB drives in my three base model Roamios. I ran all the WD Diags before using the drives. I can't get the drives to show ANY SMART value degradation, when tested on a PC and the tests complete in a shorter time than estimated.

When tested in Roamio, the extended tests built into KS54 (IR mode remote, or RF/IR remote set to IR-only mode required to get kickstart menus on Roamios), estimate the test should take ~480 minutes, I aborted after 2500 minutes had passed. The SMART values still are perfect. I am now running the Roamio SMART off-line data gathering test, estimated at ~716 minutes to finish, and have passed the 1000 minute (right now). All the SMART short tests in KS54, in Roamios, complete quickly, and pass.

When I had Premieres, that came stock with 320GB drives, which I had upgraded to 2TB drives, the same long SMART tests finished either in less time than the estimate, or within ~10% beyond the estimated times.

I'll be moving along to trying any other kickstart tests that still are available on Roamios (although, as with the upgraded Premieres, the only HDD tests that larger drives would do were the SMART ones, and not the TiVo-specific ones, which cease to work without a stock drive).

The last thing I will try after all else is running SpinRite to try and get a better verification on whether or not there is anything, at all, wrong with the drives.

I'm beginning to think that it's a TiVo problem, perhaps related to hardware, or the wall-wart power supplies (mine run very hot to the touch). The drives are running very cool, and the MBT is below 50 degrees on all units (although, the tiny fans are spinning like jet turbines, and making noise like min-jet turbines).

That's all I can report at this time. I'll check back in later to update what I find, and/or don't find, and compare notes with anybody else having issues like recently reported (spontaneous reboots beginning ~2 weeks ago).

Yes, I realize this is a Premiere thread/area. I thought sharing that I'm having similar issues with my Roamios may be helpful.

Yes, all my TiVos are on UPS battery backup, with a full 120-125V of power.


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## nooneuknow

For those interested in viewing your TiVo logs, see my post here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10034072#post10034072


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## slowbiscuit

Very strange that these reboots are just starting recently when we've all had the updates for months now. You'd also think that a reboot would buy you a good bit of time before another one if it's memory-related but I guess that depends on which process is running out of memory and why.

I haven't had any reboots, the only problem I've had is one that I saw last year - my Elite will lose all tuner and playback capability, all you get is a black screen for live TV or anything you try to play and nothing gets recorded. Reboot clears it up and this recent incident is only the second time I've seen it in almost two years.


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## pninen

I must add my voice to the chorus. Multiple reboots/day starting sometime in the last couple of weeks, same as the dozens of other people reporting same symptom, starting at same time. There are at least 5 threads here discussing this.


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## bsd

Same issue here on a Premiere Elite. I thought I was going to have to replace my hard drive, but it looks like its a software issue. No tuning adaptor. Started rebooting about 2 weeks ago. I have a regular Premiere that doesn't have the same issue (or at least I haven't noticed it since I watch it less frequently).


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## bobwinsthem

Is the 20.3.8 update the thing that "broke" Netflix on some Premiers?


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## nooneuknow

See my post here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10038994#post10038994 for a potential fix for this.


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## NotVeryWitty

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10039469#post10039469



TiVoMargret said:


> We found an interaction between the box and the service that was causing some random reboots. We made a change to the service last night that should resolve the problem. Please make a connection to the TiVo Service.
> 
> If you experience more than one reboot after making the connection to the TiVo Service, please email me your TSN with the subject "Random Reboots". ([email protected])
> 
> I am very sorry for the trouble!
> --Margret


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## nooneuknow

NotVeryWitty said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10039469#post10039469





TiVoMargret said:


> We found an interaction between the box and the service that was causing some random reboots. We made a change to the service last night that should resolve the problem. Please make a connection to the TiVo Service.
> 
> If you experience more than one reboot after making the connection to the TiVo Service, please email me your TSN with the subject "Random Reboots". ([email protected])
> 
> I am very sorry for the trouble!
> --Margret


Great to hear!

However, if this "service interaction issue" causing the reboots caused any corruption of the databases/structures as a result of the primary cause, my advice in this post http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10038994#post10038994 may clean up any lingering issues.

If us TiVo users didn't have TiVoMargret, this issue would likely be repeatedly denied by the TiVo CS Reps, as even existing, go on for months, and we'd all be stuck doing the CSR scripted support dance, which usually includes finding any way to blame the problem on anything except TiVo (the product and/or the company).


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