# Dish Introduces $20 Streaming Bundle w/ ESPN. TiVo compatibility?



## kbq71 (Apr 22, 2005)

Dish announced their new Sling TV service that for $20 gives a bundle of popular channels.

"The crown jewel of the bunch is ESPN and ESPN2, which will be streaming over-the-top to non-cable subscribers for the first time. But the channel lineup also includes the Disney Channel, ABC Family, Food Network, HGTV, Travel Channel, Adult Swim, TBS, TNT, CNN, and Cartoon Network."

"For $5 more, subscribers with children can sign up for the Kids Extra pack, which includes networks like Disney Junior and Boomerang. Meanwhile, those who are really into the DIY set can sign up for the News & Info Extra pack, which includes the Cooking Channel, HLN, and Bloomberg."

The announcement mentions a number of supported devices (Amazon Fire TV, Roku, Xbox One), but TiVo was conspicuously absent. 

Is there any hope that TiVo will support this? I would drop my Comcast cable package in a heartbeat.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

kbq71 said:


> Dish announced their new Sling TV service that for $20 gives a bundle of popular channels.
> 
> "The crown jewel of the bunch is ESPN and ESPN2, which will be streaming over-the-top to non-cable subscribers for the first time. But the channel lineup also includes the Disney Channel, ABC Family, Food Network, HGTV, Travel Channel, Adult Swim, TBS, TNT, CNN, and Cartoon Network."
> 
> ...


Well Dish & TiVo aren't exactly best buddies. But with TiVo's push on OTA users perhaps the app will show up some day. Interesting to see if it ends up on Channel Masters OTA DVR - would expect it there before TiVo based on Dish's past history with that line of OTA DVRs.


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## abovethesink (Aug 26, 2013)

atmuscarella said:


> Well Dish & TiVo aren't exactly best buddies. But with TiVo's push on OTA users perhaps the app will show up some day. Interesting to see if it ends up on Channel Masters OTA DVR - would expect it there before TiVo based on Dish's past history with that line of OTA DVRs.


That would be a large feather in Channel Master's cap.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

Keep in mind that all of the DVR-type functions such as trick play and "recording" things are all done on the service side and are dictated by agreements with the broadasters. Dish will make available programs for 3-7 days after they air automatically (based on licensing) in a VOD-style, instead of you requesting it record what you want. Also not even every channel will allow pausing and fast forwarding. This seems like it's designed to live in a post-DVR world and I wouldn't expect it to ever come to TiVo.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

If they add it, it will simply be another OTT app. This wouldn't even be a conversation if it weren't for ESPN...

Now that ESPN has licensed it's content to within this streaming service, I would expect to see it added to other content providers. Eventually one of the content providers will show up on TiVo... But in the short term I would look toward Roku for this service.

The question I have is - will this ESPN portal include live(ish) sporting events? If it does, how will they overcome all contractual geographical blackout areas? You may see special programming concessions - such as - streaming of that live football game is not allowed until 60 minutes following the end of the game.

It will be interesting to see how the works out, but understand, they are going to enforce non skippable commercials into the content.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

bradleys said:


> The question I have is - will this ESPN portal include live(ish) sporting events? If it does, how will they overcome all contractual geographical blackout areas?


THey'll probably have blackouts based on the IP address in a manner similar to the way some of the live ESPN3 content is blocked for geographic blackouts.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

bradleys said:


> Now that ESPN has licensed it's content to within this streaming service, I would expect to see it added to other content providers.


That is doubtful. ESPN would just remove their content from Dish's service if it gets popular and sell it straight to the consumer. The deal with Dish's new service states if they get too many customers, ESPN has the right to pull their content. My guess is this is just a test by ESPN. And when they pull their content, Dish's tv service will be basically dead in the water.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

So does it have live streams of these channels too? Or just VOD of the programs on these channels?


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> So does it have live streams of these channels too? Or just VOD of the programs on these channels?


in the case of ESPN, I'd assume live. No one wants old sporting events.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> So does it have live streams of these channels too? Or just VOD of the programs on these channels?


its live linear streams of all the channels plus selected VOD content. no dvr but they will have 3-7 days worth of programs available after airing depending on channel, as well as trick play will depend on licensing.


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## Pacomartin (Jun 11, 2013)

JosephB said:


> its live linear streams of all the channels plus selected VOD content. no dvr but they will have 3-7 days worth of programs available after airing depending on channel, as well as trick play will depend on licensing.


So I get a handful of channels for $20. At the same time Dish offers 190+ channels for $54.99/mo *($29.99 for first year*) including USA, CNN, CMT, Disney, ESPN, E! plus Free Hopper® *Whole-Home HD DVR * And I must accept Dish Internet speeds of 10 Mbps @ $49.99 while my cable company offers internet speeds of 25 Mbps @ $39.99.

While it will no doubt cost you slightly less, it seems like you get what you pay for (which is not much). You still have to pull in OTA somehow.

I don't see this as revolutionary. I see it as a way to get college kids on the bandwagon.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

For apartment dwellers, it is an welcome alternative. Without a private area for a sat dish or outdoor antenna, the only option has been a single cabletv provider. A cabletv provider who knows there are no alternative providers and who has plenty of extra fees and won't budge on prices. While a large outdoor antenna in an inside hallway works great for me, not everyone will put up with its aesthetics. If Sling TV can be subscribed and unsubscribed for short periods of time via a computer (ie No retention department hassles and trust issues), then I will probably try it when the broadcast tv season is mostly repeats. 

That is, if the picture quality is good.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

Pacomartin said:


> So I get a handful of channels for $20. At the same time Dish offers 190+ channels for $54.99/mo *($29.99 for first year*) including USA, CNN, CMT, Disney, ESPN, E! plus Free Hopper® *Whole-Home HD DVR * And I must accept Dish Internet speeds of 10 Mbps @ $49.99 while my cable company offers internet speeds of 25 Mbps @ $39.99.
> 
> While it will no doubt cost you slightly less, it seems like you get what you pay for (which is not much). You still have to pull in OTA somehow.
> 
> I don't see this as revolutionary. I see it as a way to get college kids on the bandwagon.


This service has nothing to do with Dish's internet service, as a matter of fact there is zero Dish branding on this service at all.

Also, it requires zero equipment and there is no contract. With Dish you need a, well, dish installed and also a 24 month contract.

Finally, you are right on the money. Dish has specifically said that this product is not intended as a cable/satellite TV replacement. It is exactly marketed to "millenials" (of which I am one but I hate that term) who have cut the cord or never had cable in the first place.


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## Pacomartin (Jun 11, 2013)

JosephB said:


> Finally, you are right on the money. Dish has specifically said that this product is not intended as a cable/satellite TV replacement.


CBS revenue amounts to $35/year for each TV household. Revenue comes from advertising and cable retransmission fees. AND VERY IMPORTANT that includes NFL football. That's just an average, and does not take into consideration if anyone in a particular household watches CBS.

So CBS All Access costs $72/year and you get no football and you still have to watch advertising on the new shows. They can advertise that you can watch 5 episodes for free on the CBS web site, but 11 episodes if you pay for "All Access". So for everyone who buys this product for whatever reason adds a lot to CBS bottom line. But for most people it is an expensive substitute for antennas or cable.

Same way with this streaming product from Dish. It caters to a small audience, and it gives them the potential to customize advertising to individuals with well known profiles. The insertion of custom selected advertising could radically increase revenue.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

SlingTV makes no sense for TiVo. TiVo is a cable DVR first and foremost. Yes, there is the TiVo OTA and the Base Roamio, which a small proportion of users use with OTA, but TiVo is fundamentally a cable DVR company who makes CableCard DVRs.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

But as cable tv and sat prices continue to rise, at some point, people say enough. They are really jacking of the cost here in Los Angeles and the Antenna reception is great. Made sense for me.

TV is really very haphazard. Both UHF and VHF ? Both 720p and 1080i ? Few or no legit reviews of antennas and preamps ? No way to log DVR diagnostic signal errors ? And there is no accounting for taste, I can't believe what some people watch. 

SlingTV provides an another alternative to high cable bills. For stations not available over the air. They are not competitors to Tivo, they compliment each other.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Without the ability to record and watch when I want to... then I'm likely to pass on this. I don't want to be back to watching TV when the networks dictate.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

jth tv said:


> And there is no accounting for taste, I can't believe what some people watch.


Yeah, and while the big 4 aren't the bottom of the barrel, they have got to be close. PBS is the only good channel OTA.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Ridiculous.. Even though I get cable (and while _everything_ could be cheaper, I don't think it's the *total* ripoff like most people seem to think -- and yes, I do want a la carte though), the vast majority of what I watch is from broadcast networks... and actually, originally, I got cable to get better reception of network channels, since otherwise I'd need to rotate my antenna 180 degrees.. (which obviously doesn't work for unattended recording)


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

mattack said:


> Ridiculous.. Even though I get cable (and while _everything_ could be cheaper, I don't think it's the *total* ripoff like most people seem to think -- and yes, I do want a la carte though), the vast majority of what I watch is from broadcast networks... and actually, originally, I got cable to get better reception of network channels, since otherwise I'd need to rotate my antenna 180 degrees.. (which obviously doesn't work for unattended recording)


You could get a db8e and point the antennas in two separate directions.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

This service is for Mellenials or those who have never subscribed to MVPD's and never will be MVPD subscribers. SlingTV is NOT designed to serve a family household. Instead, it appeals to young, single people who want access to ESPN (by far the most requested channel by streaming youngsters and cord-cutters) and a few of the most popular channels at a desired price. SlingTV is NOT for TiVo owners who have a far different model of watching TV than those 18-30 years of age. I think SlingTV is going to be very popular because this is exactly what the youngsters and cord-cutters have been begging for.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Series3Sub said:


> This service is for Mellenials or those who have never subscribed to MVPD's and never will be MVPD subscribers. SlingTV is NOT designed to serve a family household. Instead, it appeals to young, single people who want access to ESPN (by far the most requested channel by streaming youngsters and cord-cutters) and a few of the most popular channels at a desired price. SlingTV is NOT for TiVo owners who have a far different model of watching TV than those 18-30 years of age. I think SlingTV is going to be very popular because this is exactly what the youngsters and cord-cutters have been begging for.


I agree with what you said except for the subset of TiVo user who are OTA only. I think Sling TV would be an excellent additional option for programing for TiVo OTA users. If one lives where you can get all the OTA HD networks adding Sing TV, Netflix, & Amazon gets you an amazing amount of TV for under $40/mo and might well be a full alternative to cable for allot of households.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

atmuscarella said:


> I agree with what you said except for the subset of TiVo user who are OTA only. I think Sling TV would be an excellent additional option for programing for TiVo OTA users. If one lives where you can get all the OTA HD networks adding Sing TV, Netflix, & Amazon gets you an amazing amount of TV for under $40/mo and might well be a full alternative to cable for allot of households.


I would agree. Although, the problem is OTA TiVo users are but a small blip on TiVo's radar at this point (and they are almost completely focused on MSOs these days). So I doubt we will see any interest in TiVo trying to add the service.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

rainwater said:


> I would agree. Although, the problem is OTA TiVo users are but a small blip on TiVo's radar at this point (and they are almost completely focused on MSOs these days). So I doubt we will see any interest in TiVo trying to add the service.


Tivo just released a separate OTA only Roamio. Sounds like more than a blip on the radar to me.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

shwru980r said:


> Tivo just released a separate OTA only Roamio. Sounds like more than a blip on the radar to me.


That's just a re-purposed Roamio Basic. OTA is still a blip on the radar for TiVo.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Bigg said:


> That's just a re-purposed Roamio Basic. OTA is still a blip on the radar for TiVo.


But it could be an even bigger DOT on that radar if it added SlingTV!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Dish and TiVo don't have the best relationship, I doubt Dish is going to go out of it's way to write an app to support the TiVo platform.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> Dish and TiVo don't have the best relationship, I doubt Dish is going to go out of it's way to write an app to support the TiVo platform.


I guess Dish taking a prototype evaluation TiVo box and reverse-engineering it and selling the result as their own DVR soured relations a bit.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

atmuscarella said:


> I think Sling TV would be an excellent additional option for programing for TiVo OTA users.


Even though I know the studies say even DVR (including Tivo of course) users often watch commercials, would people really put up with this un-recordable, unpauseable, un-FFable format for a large portion of their viewing?


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> Dish and TiVo don't have the best relationship, I doubt Dish is going to go out of it's way to write an app to support the TiVo platform.


I agree and certainly understand that fact, but it still doesn't mean they wouldn't make a good hypothetical match, as has been alluded to here.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> But it could be an even bigger DOT on that radar if it added SlingTV!


TiVo is a still a cable DVR manufacturer. There's just so many reasons that such an app wouldn't make any sense.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Bigg said:


> TiVo is a still a cable DVR manufacturer. There's just so many reasons that such an app wouldn't make any sense.


I agree - It would be one thing if this were a service that could be consumed natively as a source by TiVo, but it isn't. It is just another OTT app - directed specifically at cord cutters. 99.9% of TiVo subscribers would get absolutely no value out of the offering.

I mean if Dish wanted to modify the app for TiVo, so what - but to make herculean efforts to go out and get it? I just don't see the value.

So many other OTT apps, with broader appeal that TiVo should be courting.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Bigg said:


> TiVo is a still a cable DVR manufacturer. There's just so many reasons that such an app wouldn't make any sense.


So by that logic there should be no reason they even offered the OTA unit then. 

ANY app that can enhance the "sellability" of a unit designed and sold specifically to cord cutters, (e.g. - the Roamio OTA) and compliments it and which potentially pushes someone to go OTA, like the SlingTV app which offers the biggest requested cord cutter channel out there, ESPN, can't be anything but a good thing. Let alone the addition of Disney, etc for those with small children.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

bradleys said:


> So many other OTT apps, with broader appeal that TiVo should be courting.


Yeah, they should integrate the replacement for HBOGo, since that will be common for OTT and cable subscribers of HBO, and thus have a large market.



HarperVision said:


> So by that logic there should be no reason they even offered the OTA unit then.


The OTA is a crippled unit, and a misguided attempt to snag some customers who failed math class. The Roamio Basic was fine for the OTA niche market. Most people who want a TiVo want to subscribe to the content to go with it.



> ANY app that can enhance the "sellability" of a unit designed and sold specifically to cord cutters, (e.g. - the Roamio OTA) and compliments it and which potentially pushes someone to go OTA, like the SlingTV app which offers the biggest requested cord cutter channel out there, ESPN, can't be anything but a good thing. Let alone the addition of Disney, etc for those with small children.


Putting an app which basically breaks the whole point of TiVo, i.e. having a DVR, is a terrible idea. The other apps are all various forms of VOD, which is a natural evolution of the DVR watch TV when you want idea.


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## Joe Siegler (May 10, 2000)

shwru980r said:


> Tivo just released a separate OTA only Roamio. Sounds like more than a blip on the radar to me.


That is just a basic Roamio without a Cablecard hookup. It also doesn't have the option to buy a lifetime subscription, which would keep me from getting it.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

Joe Siegler said:


> That is just a basic Roamio without a Cablecard hookup. It also doesn't have the option to buy a lifetime subscription, which would keep me from getting it.


Really? It's $50. For that price, I don't think "can't lifetime it" would be a deal breaker, economically. Maybe on some kind of ethical grounds or something...


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## moedaman (Aug 21, 2012)

Bigg said:


> Putting an app which basically breaks the whole point of TiVo, i.e. having a DVR, is a terrible idea.


Hulu Plus is pretty similar and that app has been available on Tivo's for years. Watch shows, that could have easily been recorded on the Tivo, via streaming.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

moedaman said:


> Hulu Plus is pretty similar and that app has been available on Tivo's for years. Watch shows, that could have easily been recorded on the Tivo, via streaming.


Frankly, I don't understand HULU either, why would I pay for a streaming service that requires me to watch commercials when I can record them anyway.

I posted this on another thread, but it pertains to this discussion:



> No, we understand how hard it is for TiVo to convince OTT owners such as Netflix and Amazon to expend the resources to place an app on TiVo. TiVo simply does not have the consumer numbers (retail TiVo's) to warrant the effort
> 
> And if we don't have the numbers to get OTT providers such as HBO Go, the likelihood of Dish deciding to drop the hatchet with TiVo and modify an app for the couple thousand dedicated OTA units is pretty slim.
> 
> ...


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

moedaman said:


> Hulu Plus is pretty similar and that app has been available on Tivo's for years. Watch shows, that could have easily been recorded on the Tivo, via streaming.


HULU is VOD, Sling TV is a live streaming service. Two different things.


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## moedaman (Aug 21, 2012)

Bigg said:


> HULU is VOD, Sling TV is a live streaming service. Two different things.


I said similar. I know they're not the same thing.

As a matter of fact I would think that Hulu Plus would be less likely to be available on Tivo's since it is direct competition to the concept of dvr's.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

moedaman said:


> I said similar. I know they're not the same thing.
> 
> As a matter of fact I would think that Hulu Plus would be less likely to be available on Tivo's since it is direct competition to the concept of dvr's.


I understand what it is, I just said I don't understand why anyone would pay for it. The bulk of the content can be DVR'd from linear TV / accessed via other streaming services...

And the commercials are ANNOYING!

I have used the desktop app a few times following links from something I am reading at the moment - and event that... FREE... I can't stand the commercials. Same commercial(s) played 4 times in a thirty minute show!


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Regardless of what any one person thinks of a particular video streaming service, it is in TiVo's best Interest to have as many available as possible. Up until now the same was true for video streaming services, it was also in their best interest to be on as many devices as possible. 

With Sling TV things are a little different, you have the past issues between Dish and TiVo plus I am fairly sure Dish doesn't want Sling TV to be competing with Dish's normal satellite service. The reality is that Sling TV on a TiVo, for someone with a good Internet connection, could function allot like cable/satellite service, which I don't real think is in Dish's best Interests.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

moedaman said:


> I said similar. I know they're not the same thing.
> 
> As a matter of fact I would think that Hulu Plus would be less likely to be available on Tivo's since it is direct competition to the concept of dvr's.


But from a UX perspective it makes sense in a DVR world where you can watch what you want when you want. Plus, TiVo is a DVR, so how does TiVo having Hulu on it compete with TiVo? It is TiVo.



bradleys said:


> I understand what it is, I just said I don't understand why anyone would pay for it. The bulk of the content can be DVR'd from linear TV / accessed via other streaming services...


Yeah, I don't get it either. There's not much good on there. Netflix is a different story, they have a ton of stuff that's not on TV, and is totally worth the $8/mo or $12/mo for 4K or whatever it is these days.


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