# Strange 1x fast forward issue since 9.4 update



## vittoria (Apr 15, 2008)

I have a Series 3 which received the 9.4 summer update around 4AM or so Friday morning. Since then I've noticed that the 1x fast forward is very close to normal speed, not the 1x or so it seemed before. At times it's absolutely normal playback speed and other times there's a quick burst of fast forwarding and then back to normal playing speed again. It keeps going back and forth like this. 

I tested it watching auto racing that had a count-down clock. In 1x mode the clock was still counting in pretty much real time except for clumps of like 10 seconds here and there that suddenly counted down very quickly and then resumed normal speed.

Same thing if testing using a channel like Headline News...something with a continuous scroll. The scrolling appears to alternate constantly between completely normal playback speed to a fast forward speed of some sort.

I've called Tivo a couple of times since yesterday. Each time has resulted in a tech saying it's behaving normally and that the software update had nothing to do with the fast forward function. (Like an update could never mess with something else by accident.) One even suggested I call my cable company to see if they have any DVR's like would like better then the Tivo. (I really like the Tivo and have no desire to rent a Cablevision DVR.) This same tech also said it might be a cable problem and I should call the cable company. (Seemed like a Tivo playback issue to me.)

I'm fairly sure in the past that 1x fast forward was a fairly constant speed which was obviously quicker than real time but not super quick. 

I was wondering if anyone could either record a bit of Headline News or at least leave a tuner on it to get a buffer and then rewind and test the 1x FF by watching the scrolling on the bottom. I'd like to know if others see the constant speed up/slow down of the scrolling over and over again. 

Also, how fast is each FF increment supposed to increase the playback speed? The techs have not been able to answer.

Thank you for any help-

Vickie


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

vittoria said:


> I tested it watching auto racing that had a count-down clock. In 1x mode the clock was still counting in pretty much real time except for clumps of like 10 seconds here and there that suddenly counted down very quickly and then resumed normal speed.
> 
> Vickie


My S3 has been this way since 9.3. Because of that I changed to use the 30-sec skip and like that much better.

I just checked using CNN Headline and it seems to be fixed for me now. Did you get the 9.4 software update?


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## Mars Rocket (Mar 24, 2000)

Mine has been this way on some (but not all) shows for quite some time now, at least since 9.3. It's annoying, but I hardly ever use 1x FF anyway so I don't notice it much.


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## vittoria (Apr 15, 2008)

I've only noticed this since it updated to 9.4 this Friday morning.

I've noticed that it's not happening universally. I saw it on Speed, Headline News and YES, but Fox was fine, (even when they ran a severe weather scroll it was smooth and steady in 1x.)

What does 30-second skip do? Does it jump instantly ahead 30 seconds at a time?

Thank you-
Vickie


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

vittoria said:


> What does 30-second skip do? Does it jump instantly ahead 30 seconds at a time?


Yes.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

And before you ask, you press 'select' - 'play' - 'select' - '3' - '0' - 'select' while watching a recorded program to turn it on/off.


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## vittoria (Apr 15, 2008)

The problem has become even more mysterious. I've been experimenting by testing various channels that have those continously moving scrolls, since the problem is obvious that way. It seems the 1x FF is fine on some channels and it has stop-and-go motion on others. The OK ones I've tested are CNN, Bloomberg, Fox, MSNBC, & ESPN2. The ones where 1x FF keeps varying from nothing to FF are Speed, Headline News, YES, Fox News & ESPN.

(I only tested channels with scrolling.)

I wonder why 1x FF works correctly on some channels and doesn't do much on others?

I just wish I could have someone from Tivo actually see it so they would know this was not "normal."

Thank you -
Vickie


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## sinanju (Jan 3, 2005)

vittoria said:


> I just wish I could have someone from Tivo actually see it so they would know this was not "normal."


One important fact left out of your original posting is that your connection to the TV is composite video. I'm guessing there are few of us using composite with the S3. I responded with more detail to your posting at forums.tivo.com.


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## jtkohl (Feb 7, 2004)

I had this behavior with skiing events on VS when I had Comcast, but don't have it with FiOS. I am guessing it has to do with the particular MPEG encoding and whether TiVo can do its fast-forward efficiently enough to play the video stream at 3x.


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## vittoria (Apr 15, 2008)

Thank you for your reply.

The fast forward problem I'm having started since the 9.4 update and seems to only affect 1x FF on some channels. The 2x and 3x seem fine.

I went through a whole bunch of channels testing each using the 1xFF. So far I've found 20 channels where the 1xFF only works in occassional bursts and 51 channels where it works fine. (I didn't check every single channel, just ones I might watch.)

Since I mainly use the 1x for sports all of the sports channels are affected except ESPN2 and ESPN Classic...of course.

Vickie



jtkohl said:


> I had this behavior with skiing events on VS when I had Comcast, but don't have it with FiOS. I am guessing it has to do with the particular MPEG encoding and whether TiVo can do its fast-forward efficiently enough to play the video stream at 3x.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

I've got two S3's here, and the 9.4 update seems to have broken the fast forward function from the live buffer on both. On a recorded show, it seems to be OK, although I only have shows that recorded before the 9.4 update.

Specifically, pushing FF once turns off the audio, but the picture moves at a normal rate about 80&#37; of the time. The other 20% of the time, it switches between normal speed and FF speed every few seconds. The second and third FF speeds work fine. The first rewind speed is also VERY choppy, with the second and third rewind speeds being fine.

This is on BOTH S3's, and only since the 9.4 update. The chances of both devices having the same hardware failure at the same time and it NOT being as a result of the 9.4 update: zero.


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## adrianblack (Jul 2, 2000)

Watching the Olympics right now my Tivo HD is doing this... The first level of FF pretty much does nothing other than mute the audio. Occasional bursts of double speed...

Time Warner, dual cable cards, HDMI, Native resolutoin, NBC in HD

I've had the Tivo HD since it came out and this only started with the latest recent software upgrade. 

It's pretty annoying as I often use the double-speed to go through the slow spots in sports like the Olympics.


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## wedenton (Jun 13, 2002)

Both my S3 and HD have always done this, but only with one OTA channel (NBC 12-1 Richmond VA). I just assumed its an incompatibility with TiVo and their transmitting equipment. Been going on so long I've gotten used to it, but it is annoying with the Olympics going on.


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## Darthnice (Apr 29, 2002)

I'd be willing to bet that you never have a problem with analog channels, only the digital ones (which includes all HD channels), though some digital channels may be unaffected.


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## jbernardis (Oct 22, 2003)

Darthnice said:


> I'd be willing to bet that you never have a problem with analog channels, only the digital ones (which includes all HD channels), though some digital channels may be unaffected.


I agree with this statement. On both of my S3's and on my THD, since the 9.4 upgrade, recordings off of digital channels do not 1x FF correctly. 1x FF does little more than turn the sound off, although there is a periodic burst of speed. 1x Rewind is also very choppy. Analog channels seem to work just fine.


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## FiosUser (Nov 16, 2007)

I have this same problem with the 1x fast forward on my S3. The problem did not appear until the 9.4 release.

The time it most is a problem is on NBC HD (recording the olympics). I haven't seen it any other time.

I called Tivo this morning and they acted like they never had heard of the problem before. They told me to unplug the Tivo for 15 seconds and then see if that fixed it. It didn't.

Nothing else seemed to fix it either.

2x and 3x FF work fine.


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## fuhkinay (Jun 14, 2007)

dougdingle said:


> The first rewind speed is also VERY choppy, with the second and third rewind speeds being fine.


My TiVo HD has the same problem. FF is fine, but the first rewind speed is very choppy. This started happening right after the 9.4 update.


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## SJPstl (Mar 27, 2005)

I've noticed this too, but only on HD channels. I'm not sure when it started but I think it's been doing it a long time.

I find the (normal) single fast forward great for watching baseball. I double FF between pitches and scale back to single FF for the pitch. I can watch a whole game in less than an hour. Unfortunately I miss the brilliant commentary.


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## GregComeLately (Nov 27, 2006)

Here is my own "testimonial" that this isn't just a 9.4 thing; I've been encountering the 1x FF issue for at least the last year and a half. Like others, it's not a common occurrence to all channels, just a few even and not all of the time with those channels. At least, I don't think so ... I haven't been keeping mental notes as to which channels, how often, etc. Certainly it's more the exception than the norm.

It is annoying, esp. when I want to use the 1X FF feature for blasting through sporting events and it doesn't work the way it's supposed to.


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## NJP11 (Sep 10, 2007)

I just noticed the problem today for the first time while watching a NFL football game in HD on CBS. I have a Tivo HD with dual Motorola CableCards provided by Cox.


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## rokicki (Jan 8, 2003)

I also just noticed the problem today for the first time while watching an NFL football game in HD on CBS. I have a Tivo HD with a single multistream Motorola cable card. I was using closed captioning if it matters, and a different HD program was being recorded while I was watching the game. First time I've seen something like this (and I use FF-1 a lot). It was kind of frustrating.


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## worachj (Oct 14, 2006)

I have the same problem with the Big 10 network, using an S3.


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## GregComeLately (Nov 27, 2006)

The problem occurred again last night for the Bears/Colts game on NBC via OTA HD, and continued on for after the game for my local NBC affiliate programming.


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## NJP11 (Sep 10, 2007)

What does everyone think is the best way to present this problem to Tivo?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Call up Tivo and describe the problem. Unfortunately, there is no official bug reporting system, and they don't seem interested in putting one up.


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## rclams2 (Sep 20, 2008)

Folks, 

My 1X FF Is broken, too. We're on Comcast Digital Cable (SF Bay Area) and have a Series 3 HD TiVo.

Bugs the heck out of me, as I used to watch lots of golf at 1X, using 3X for commercials and Play for great shots/putts.

Dang it, TiVo, get the bugs out!


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

FWIW, I have the two DirecTV HD TiVo HR10-250 units and they both behave the same inconsistent way using 1X FF as folks are describing here for the TiVo HD and S3. In my case, there is no analog tuner, everything coming in is either digital OTA or digital from DirecTV satellites, including analog channels that are digitized by DirecTV for satellite transmission. Thus, there are no A->D converters in these units.

Just another data point to consider ...


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## NJP11 (Sep 10, 2007)

I've only noticed the problem on broadcast channels even though they are coming over Cox cable. I'm going to trying hooking up a regular antennae later today and see if I have the same problem


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## friscoaggie (Sep 22, 2008)

Noticed this for the first time today. My Series 3 only receives over the air programming. I am currently seeing it watching the Cowboys Packers game, but saw it earlier today as I was trying to catch up on the Nascar race. Quite annoying as 2x is too fast to actually see what's going on.

Basically it only mutes the sound, occasionally it will speed up.


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## Poochie (Dec 27, 2003)

Add me to the list of those who are seeing strange 1x FF speed behavior.

I definitely noticed it watching the Cowboys/Packers SNF game. KNTV-HD from Comcast in the SF Bay Area. Running 9.4 on the S3 with 2 Mot S-cards. I recently expanded the S3 with a 1TB WD10EVCS, but given the reports above I doubt that's the reason. 2x and 3x FF (and 30-second-skip) all work reasonably. 1x FF runs somewhere near real-time.

I don't recall seeing this with other football games I watched Sunday (Niners on KTVU-HD or 'da Raidas' on CBS-HD), but wouldn't swear that it wasn't there either - I was using 30-second-skip mostly there. If I remember tonight I'll try to see what the 1xFF behavior is for SD digital channels as well as some other HD channels - I can't test analogs as the "analog" channels are all coming in as digital for us due to ADS.


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## FiosUser (Nov 16, 2007)

This is definately a problem with the content being watched.

I've only had this happen 2 times in my life. Both times were on the USA Men's Basketball games on NBC during this past olympics.

Haven't seen it since then.

It is very bad though when it is happening.


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## Poochie (Dec 27, 2003)

Quick update. I did NOT see the "slow 1x FF" problem last night, watching programs on ESPN-HD, KTVU HD (Fox), or FX (digital SD). I forgot to re-check KNTV-HD (NBC) to see if it was program-specific or a problem with NBC in general.

I'd suspect something strange in the NBC feed too.


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## NJP11 (Sep 10, 2007)

I've noticed the problem most on CBS's HD feed during NFL games


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

I don't have an issue with how any of the FF speeds work, except in the last few minutes of a recorded program, if I FF then hit play to go back to normal, it skips the last few mintutes and hits the end of the recordling, like a skip to next click does. Then, I have to rewind back to where I was. This only started happened after the 9.4 update.


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## deaddeeds (Sep 19, 2008)

I noticed the 1XFF problem Sunday on NBC HD with my S3 during the Cowboy's game but last night on ESPN HD it was back to normal. But I have noticed the FF being choppy sporadically and skipping head by like 5 min on occasion. It is very annoying!!!


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## NJP11 (Sep 10, 2007)

I decided to check today's games to see if I noticed the same problems as I had noticed on CBS's earlier Patriots game. The problem was again evident on today's CBS coverage of the Kansas City vs Denver game. When I went to check to see if I had the same problem on Fox's Jets vs Cardinals game fast forward 1x seem to work as it should. I noticed that the CBS games are in 1080i while Fox's are in 720p. Does anyone know what NBC and ESPN shoot their games in so I can see if the problem is related to only 1080i broadcasts.

Thanks


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## DigitalAnarchist (Jan 21, 2004)

I have 2 TiVo HD's and they have both been doing this since 9.3 update. It is internittent - and usually just results in muting the sound. 2x, 3x work fine. Seems to clearly be a TiVo bug to me.

I'm usually a 30 second skip person, but use 1x on occasion, esp for "flow" sports after the score approaches a blowout (basketball, hockey, etc.)

I have Comcast digital cable with Motorola M-card with 480i component output, watching only standard def channels.


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

NJP11 said:


> I decided to check today's games to see if I noticed the same problems as I had noticed on CBS's earlier Patriots game. The problem was again evident on today's CBS coverage of the Kansas City vs Denver game. When I went to check to see if I had the same problem on Fox's Jets vs Cardinals game fast forward 1x seem to work as it should. I noticed that the CBS games are in 1080i while Fox's are in 720p. Does anyone know what NBC and ESPN shoot their games in so I can see if the problem is related to only 1080i broadcasts.
> 
> Thanks


NBC is 1080i and ESPN is 720p.


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## Poochie (Dec 27, 2003)

Another evening of "slow" 1xFF on Sunday Night Football on NBC. It was not "slow" on either FOX (SF vs NO) or CBS (SD vs Oak) NFL games in HD. Since CBS is also 1080i, I doubt it's strictly a 1080i issue. Hopefully I'll remember to check other NBC programming at some point.

All watched via Comcast cable on my S3 in the SF Bay Area.


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## jbernardis (Oct 22, 2003)

One further observation on this issue - it only seems to happen on NBC HD. I receie 3 such channels - channel 160 from comcast my cable provider, channel 10-1 OTA from Philadelphia and channel 4-1 OTA from New York. This problem occurs on all three of these channels, and seemingly on no other channels.


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## FiosUser (Nov 16, 2007)

jbernardis said:


> One further observation on this issue - it only seems to happen on NBC HD. I receie 3 such channels - channel 160 from comcast my cable provider, channel 10-1 OTA from Philadelphia and channel 4-1 OTA from New York. This problem occurs on all three of these channels, and seemingly on no other channels.


I agree. I saw it for my third time this weekend on Saturday Night Live. The 1xFF didn't act quite right--although it did work better than the two previous times this happened.


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## FiosUser (Nov 16, 2007)

I've been seeing this more and more now.

I've come to expect it on any HD recording that is 1.5 hours or more.

Basketball games always do it (I'm sure it is not the content, but the kind of video an the length maybe).

This is a bug, but Tivo will say "they've never heard of anyone having this problem before."


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## Poochie (Dec 27, 2003)

My experience has not been based on the length of the program, but rather which channel the program is on.

Just yesterday I has 2 HD recordings of ~7 hours each (due to not knowing what NFL games would be on when on Fox and CBS due to the Raiders not selling out), 1xFF on both Fox and CBS was fine for those. And once again NBC's NFL game had the slower-than-realtime 1xFF. 30-second-skip worked fine though.

I also continue to notice it with SNL on NBC. I'll check a shorter NBC HD program (e.g. 30 Rock) to see if a short NBC program exhibits the same behavior.

I have also noticed this on occasion on CSNBA-HD while watching Sharks games. Those are usually 3.5 hours recordings though.

I'll try submitting something to their Help Forums (never done that before, I just found them)... not holding my breath, but you never know.


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## jbernardis (Oct 22, 2003)

I agree with the above post. My experience is that this happens ONLY on NBC HD, whether cable or OTA. NBC SD is fine as are other channels.


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## rifleman69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Poochie said:


> My experience has not been based on the length of the program, but rather which channel the program is on.
> 
> Just yesterday I has 2 HD recordings of ~7 hours each (due to not knowing what NFL games would be on when on Fox and CBS due to the Raiders not selling out), 1xFF on both Fox and CBS was fine for those. And once again NBC's NFL game had the slower-than-realtime 1xFF. 30-second-skip worked fine though.
> 
> ...


I'm noticing it on NBC-related broadcasts as well, including those on another network such as the 10pm news produced by the local NBC affiliate on another channel.


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## FiosUser (Nov 16, 2007)

OK, well I have noticed it on not only NBC HD but also FSW HD (Fox Sports West).

Is Fox Sports related to NBC?

Maybe it is not the channel, but something common between NBC and Fox Sports? 

For example, the Laker game on Sunday night (11/10/2008) was shown on Fox Sports West and this problem was very visable.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

(tangent)
it's actually called Comcast Sports Net nowadays.. (though the icons in my Tivos still say FSN)


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## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

So, has anyone actually called TiVo, or are we just assuming that they will say that they haven't heard of it?


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## FiosUser (Nov 16, 2007)

I called them when it first happened. That was back in August.

At that time they said they never heard of such a thing.


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## FiosUser (Nov 16, 2007)

Tonight's Laker game is working fine. It is HD, but a different channel (our local channel called KCAL). So, looks like it is something specific to a station.


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## nirisahn (Nov 19, 2005)

I've noticed this happening just the last couple of weeks when I'm watching football. I'll tell it 1x FF and it doesn't speed up, then it does for a second, then it's back to normal speed for a few seconds, then jumps ahead again, and I can almost count off the timing on when it's going to jump ahead. The other FF speeds are just fine.


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## FiosUser (Nov 16, 2007)

Again last night during the Lakers game on FSN HD.


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## FiosUser (Nov 16, 2007)

Called Tivo and some guy actually tried to help with this.

Recommended I change the recording quality (under settings). 

So, I have changed it from "High" to "Medium" and we'll see if that affects the fast forward problem. I think another game is on tonight so we'll see if it worked or not.


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## jbernardis (Oct 22, 2003)

I didn't think recording quality affected digital channels, of which FSN HD is obviously one.


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## Poochie (Dec 27, 2003)

Another instance of this happening for me. This time on the SD channel for CSN-BA when I watched Monday night's Sharks game vs Nashville. In my case I'm getting the digital version of this channel - we have had ADS in my area for almost a year now.


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## chrisaj (Dec 7, 2008)

Has anyone ever gotten this problem fixed? Sent it off to service? Rebuilt the disk? Anything?

I've been experiencing it since the Olympics and it's highly annoying. I use double-speed a lot to speed through sports while still being able to actually see the action.


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## Poochie (Dec 27, 2003)

Nope, I still see this to this day on some of the channels, as I've indicated earlier. NBC (for Sunday Night Football) is the most annoying.

It continues to happen under version 11 of the software - my Tivo got that last week at some point, and last night's SNF recording of Baltimore/Washington continued to exhibit the problem.


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## FiosUser (Nov 16, 2007)

Still plaguing the massess.

Last time I called Tivo support, they said to change the recording quality. I lowered it one notch and that didn't help.

Watching Saturday Night Live recorded from NBC HD had the problem.

Seems I've had the problem most with NBC, but also Fox Sports West.

So, the mystery continues. The very, very, very annoying and problematic mystery continues.


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## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

This happened to me during the Thanksgiving day parade as broadcast on NBCHD on my S3... using the live buffer.

Pressing FF 1x yielded NO faster speed, just no audio. Sux....


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## rifleman69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Anyone notice the pattern, it has something to do with NBC or NBC-related stations (besides FSN-HD)? Wonder if there's something that's not being sent out right.


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## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

FiosUser said:


> Called Tivo and some guy actually tried to help with this.
> 
> Recommended I change the recording quality (under settings).


What a jerk! I bet he told you that knowing full well it would have no effect just to get you off the phone. He probably hoped the issue would solve itself and you wouldn't call back


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

The problem continues with the version 11 software on the S3. I have two, they both still suck on shuttle.

And those who say the two faster FF speeds are fine are incorrect, I believe.

Seems to me that they are MUCH jerkier than before the x1 problem occurred.

And rewind at any speed is also a LOT jerkier now.

It's as if the all rewind speeds and the two faster FF speeds are skipping a LOT more frames than they used to, while the slowest FF speed is not skipping any. 

The FF function is something along the lines of "play every third (or seventh, or eleventh) frame", and this is broken in ALL the S3 FF and RW speeds. In general the ballistics of the thing have changed, and not for the good.

And what's with the retarded way it drops out of shuttle and 30 second skip? Stutter..freeze...pause...play. It used to be smooth as silk, now it's like driving on gravel.


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## boywaja (Sep 30, 2001)

I noticed the "first level of fast forward is essentially real time" problem over the weekend while watching football. I believe I was watching Virginia Tech football about an hour behind live. First time I'd seen the problem, but normally I'm using 30 second skip.


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## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

dougdingle said:


> And those who say the two faster FF speeds are fine are incorrect, I believe.
> 
> Seems to me that they are MUCH jerkier than before the x1 problem occurred.
> 
> ...


You are correct... the remaining two FF speeds still work but JERKY as hell. You cannot gauge whats really happening onscreen, unlike before this problem cropped up.


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## FiosUser (Nov 16, 2007)

Called Tivo again this past Sunday night. It was Fox Sports West again for the Laker game.

I thought I would just call again while it wasn't working.

This time, a guy put me on hold to go talk to engineering. He came back after 10 minutes to say he had escalated it to their group and that there was someone working on it.

Don't know if this is real or not, but it is all I can do. It is happening again to me right now. Maybe I should call in each time? Or, maybe this is too low a priority. You make the call.


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## jbernardis (Oct 22, 2003)

This still happens to me on NBCDT - both cable and OTA. I was hoping that the fall update would fix it but no dice.


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## FiosUser (Nov 16, 2007)

Last night's Laker game on FSW (Fox Sports West) worked perfectly.

This is the channel that previously had problems.

So, not sure what is going on now.

On the other hand, NBCHD has this problem all the time now (not just on sports shows--like I had previously thought).


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## Jim Mack (Jul 31, 2002)

FiosUser said:


> Last night's Laker game on FSW (Fox Sports West) worked perfectly.
> 
> This is the channel that previously had problems.
> 
> ...


It seems likely it's related to the MPEG encoding -- something about how I-frames are detected, perhaps. In Series 1 units, encoding was internal and therefore predictable. The Series 3 (I believe) is directly recording the incoming MPEG streams, which no doubt vary widely in their makeup, even from show to show.

DirecTivo recorded the same way, but all those streams were the same, from a single source. Maybe TiVo has been blindsided by the variability of encodings out there in the wild.

Not that this helps, since we can't solve the problem, only TiVo can...


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

Jim Mack said:


> It seems likely it's related to the MPEG encoding -- something about how I-frames are detected, perhaps. In Series 1 units, encoding was internal and therefore predictable. The Series 3 (I believe) is directly recording the incoming MPEG streams, which no doubt vary widely in their makeup, even from show to show.
> 
> DirecTivo recorded the same way, but all those streams were the same, from a single source. Maybe TiVo has been blindsided by the variability of encodings out there in the wild.
> 
> Not that this helps, since we can't solve the problem, only TiVo can...


My 2 HD DirecTiVo units apparently have the same 1X FFWD issue with digital OTA channels. On many programs, selecting 1X FFWD simply freezes/pauses the picture and sound. Advancing to 2X and 3X works fine. I have not paid enough attention to determine if there is some pattern to this behavior.


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## Rockaway Bruce (Jan 1, 2009)

I'm having the same 1x ff issue. Mostly occurs with NBC HD. Using a Comcast M-card in a HD XL. On the phone right now with Tivo tech support. Will post an update if I get any information.


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## FiosUser (Nov 16, 2007)

I'm really getting sick of this bug.

Again the Laker game tongiht is doing the same thing.

All I can do is repeat that I see it on NBC HD and Fox Sports West the most. It is already past 9 PM Pacific Time so I can't call Tivo--they're closed. 

Please call Tivo about this if you have the problem. The more the merrier I guess.


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## Rockaway Bruce (Jan 1, 2009)

Tivo tech support turned out to be no help at all with this issue. Bottom line is that they said there's no known remedy, and it seems that they don't even have a bug tracking system. The person I spoke to didn't know whether Tivo is working on this issue.

It does seem that this issue primarily (only?) occurs on NBC HD and Comcast Sports Net (non-HD). I've had no problem using the 1x FF with CBS HD or ABC HD. The issue may also occur with CSN HD, ESPN HD, or ESPN2 HD, though I haven't tested these channels yet (I use the 1x FF primarily for sports viewing).


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

I've seen this problem too, primarily when watching football on NBC-10 HD in Philly (Comcast).


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## FiosUser (Nov 16, 2007)

I see the problem today watching a recording of Saturday Night Live from NBC HD. I also see the problem tonight during the Laker game on Fox Sports West.

So, it looks like a bunch of us have the NBC HD and some sports channel (based on where we live) in common.

I called Tivo tonight (just got off the phone). Explained I had called a few times before about this. This time the put me on hold and went to a supervisor. Came back and said they are aware that other people are calling about this, but there is nothing they can do. I could pay for an exchanged Tivo if I wanted, but that I shouldn't do that because after all--my problem is only a small problem that I shouldn't worry about.

In the big scheme of things, it is not as bad as the thing not completely working or being broken. BUT, it is a bug that affects my use of the product and it should be added to a bug tracker that is prioritized and fixed in engineering.

So, please. If you are experiencing this problem--call in and report it. Don't be like me and wait it out a couple of months before calling. Call right away.


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## berkshires (Feb 22, 2007)

I didn't read the whole thread, but I have experienced 1FF from 1X to 3X since I think my original S3, and all the THDs. I associate it (without strict evidence) with errors or other funkiness in the transmission stream. Also, I had more 1X with 1080i programming than 720p in the past, though today I would not say that, and that does not mean simply that my 1080i sources happend to be troubled but not my 720p.

For example, OTA this weekend with football, I would often see 1FF look like 2-2.5X when there were modest errors in the reception. If it was worse, I might see it at 1X.

That's my observation.


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## jtkohl (Feb 7, 2004)

I saw 1x speed varying up to 3x speed with the Comcast digital SD feed of skiing on Versus. It would flip back and forth between the speeds during the span of a single skier's run.

No such problems with Verizon's SD feed of skiing.

So it's not just HD programming. I chalk it up to some peculiarities of the encoding of the channel that TiVo just doesn't handle right for fast forward.


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## [email protected] (Jan 20, 2009)

For what its worth, I'm also seeing the 1x problem on the NBC station on Comcast in San Francisco (Ch. 703). I agree that it appears to be an encoding issue with the video, as the problem seem to occur when there is lots of movement in the video, but returns to normal 1x speed when the video stream has little change occuring.


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## BMoreE (Mar 27, 2007)

add me to the list - just noticed this for the first time today watching a recorded HD program. A minor annoyance compared to other earlier problems, so I'll just keep an eye out here for any new news!


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## jweaver15 (Mar 28, 2008)

Does anyone know if tivo plans to address this fast forward problem?


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## Poochie (Dec 27, 2003)

Funny you bumped this - not sure if Tivo fixed something, or if NBC did, but I watched Sunday Night Football on NBC the other day and noticed that 1xFF seemed reasonable to me. This was KNTV HD via Comcast to my Tivo S3.


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## rogmatic (Sep 17, 2009)

I have had the same problem with fast forward. I only use the 1x FF for football games (during huddles), and it was definitely not working for me this weekend.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Poochie said:


> Funny you bumped this - not sure if Tivo fixed something, or if NBC did, but I watched Sunday Night Football on NBC the other day and noticed that 1xFF seemed reasonable to me. This was KNTV HD via Comcast to my Tivo S3.


It works for many people just fine.

Whether 1x FF works or not depends on the encoding parameters used by your affiliate. Some affiliates eliminate the information used by the TiVo for 1x FF to save bandwidth, while others do not. On my provider (FiOS), 1x FF works on every SD and HD channel except for WRC (NBC4 in DC).

If you are TiVo, do you modify 1x FF so it is much less smooth, but works on every channel? Or do you keep it as it is, so it is smooth for many people (or many channels) but doesn't work at all for others?


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## FiosUser (Nov 16, 2007)

My 1x FF on FIOS in Orange County still does not work on NBC HD.


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## jweaver15 (Mar 28, 2008)

I also have FIOS in Philadelphia and almost every football game I watch (in HD) the 1X FF doesn't go any faster than real time including Big10, NBC, ESPN, and FOX. although it is annoying I just wonder if there is a verified reason why this takes place.


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## Poochie (Dec 27, 2003)

bkdtv said:


> It works for many people just fine.
> 
> Whether 1x FF works or not depends on the encoding parameters used by your affiliate. Some affiliates eliminate the information used by the TiVo for 1x FF to save bandwidth, while others do not. On my provider (FiOS), 1x FF works on every SD and HD channel except for WRC (NBC4 in DC).
> 
> If you are TiVo, do you modify 1x FF so it is much less smooth, but works on every channel? Or do you keep it as it is, so it is smooth for many people (or many channels) but doesn't work at all for others?


Understood - I was actually just trying to point out that it appeared to be working fine on KNTV (NBC), which in the past was the "problem channel" for me wrt 1xFF during last year's SNF games. I suppose I should have highlighted that fact, or linked my posts from Sept 2008, in my post.

Although now that I've heard others still having problems with their NBC affiliate, I'm beginning to wonder if I just imagined it was working fine for me - I'll check again during this week's Colts/Cardinals game, as well as a few other NBC shows, to see if at least KNTV no longer exhibits the slow 1xFF...


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## [email protected] (Jan 20, 2009)

KNTV is fixed for me as well. But a new problem started when the 1xFF was fixed. Now KNTV has an audio problem, a slight "pop" from time to time. This happens both with and without TiVo, so its a Comcast issue, not TiVo.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Yikes, this is all scary. Good thing I didn't hear about this before I bought my HD XL last February 

Thankfully I've seen no issues at all with fast forwarding/rewind (all over the air ATSC, all work really, really well).


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## Poochie (Dec 27, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> KNTV is fixed for me as well. But a new problem started when the 1xFF was fixed. Now KNTV has an audio problem, a slight "pop" from time to time. This happens both with and without TiVo, so its a Comcast issue, not TiVo.


Glad you mentioned the slight "pop" on occasion on KNTV - I thought I was hearing something but wasn't sure. I wonder if it's a Comcast issue or a KNTV issue in general - guess I'll meander over to the AVS section on SF Bay Comcast to see what the word is, since it's heading off the topic of this thread I'd say...


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## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> Whether 1x FF works or not depends on the encoding parameters used by your affiliate. Some affiliates eliminate the information used by the TiVo for 1x FF to save bandwidth, while others do not.


That's very interesting; first I've heard of it. Do you have a link where I can learn more about this? I'm puzzled how 1xFF wouldn't work, but 2xFF and 3xFF still would work.


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## redhotlava (Mar 30, 2002)

I've had this problem ever since I got my Tivo HD XL several months ago. FF X1 doesn't seem to be much of a problem for me on most channels (shows), but crops up on about half my football games when I really need it. Problem yesterday was CBS... both NFL games FF X1 was non-functional. Fox was normal, NBC was normal. I think we should all call Tivo and report the problem. Maybe if enough of us innundate them with calls about the same thing, they'll be more apt to respond? Whadayathinkabouthat?

~ Mick Kalber
Hilo, Hawaii
Tivo HD XL


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## FiosUser (Nov 16, 2007)

I think that is the only way to solve this, but we would need 1,000s of people.


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## redhotlava (Mar 30, 2002)

well, I haven't heard any solutions to the problem, other than the fact that apparently tivo is working on it. only thing I can think of is to let them know how many of us out here are struggling with the problem. might at least get their attention... what have we got to lose?


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## halbie (Nov 19, 2009)

I'm having this problem too. I called Tivo and reported it as a broken box. They acted like they'd never heard of it and even arranged for an exchange for a new box (!).

Now, of course, the new box that i got from the exchange has the same problem.

Seeing the problem twice in a row led me to believe something else was up, and that's how i found this forum thread.

it's a joke that this is obviously a major and common issue, yet Tivo acts like they've never seen it before.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Yeah, the problem you're seeing is well known in these forums and has nothing to do with the Tivo.
It has to do with how your TV station/Cable co is compressing the video.
I think Dan203 explains it in detail somewhere in this forum.


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## vittoria (Apr 15, 2008)

steve614 said:


> Yeah, the problem you're seeing is well known in these forums and has nothing to do with the Tivo.
> It has to do with how your TV station/Cable co is compressing the video.
> I think Dan203 explains it in detail somewhere in this forum.


I'm just not buying that Tivo has "nothing" to do with it. I think there's a shared cause. My 1x FF was working perfectly well and as soon as the 9.4 was finished installing it was immediately different and continues to be a problem. How the cable company/station compresses the video makes sense too, but I know the Tivo was 1x Fast Fowarding just fine before the update. It continues to be an issue for my S3, although I've noticed that Speed channel 1xFF now works OK. (That's the one I noticed was wrong intitially.)


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

bkdtv said:


> If you are TiVo, do you modify 1x FF so it is much less smooth, but works on every channel? Or do you keep it as it is, so it is smooth for many people (or many channels) but doesn't work at all for others?


You do neither of those... Since Tivo controls the software, and *presumably* can talk to the "MPEG decoder" or whatever part of the system would tell them about the data stream...

if (UserHits1FF())
__if (MPEGDataIsLameAndWontFFNormally())
____DoHackyWorkaroundToMakeItLessSmoothButWork()
__else
____DoNormal1FF();

(__ because [email protected]$# tivocommunity won't let me space indent.)

BTW, is the *general* REWIND suckiness the same kind of issues? DVDs have been able to rewind pretty well for a long time.. but the digital channels I record (almost all non-HD, but probably not relevant) all have really bad rewind.. I notice it usually at 1REW speed.


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## msteele (May 30, 2008)

Just to add to this thread, I just started seeing this problem happen over the weekend while watching sports on my TiVoHD. I think I was watching Comcast SportsNet. The 1xFF appeared to be the same speed as the normal playback, but occasionally it would jump forward in little bursts of FF activity. 2x and 3x FF appear normal.

But there is something different for me: last week, I had normal analog cable, and on Friday, I got Comcast Digital Cable installed. I started noticing the problem right after the switch to digital cable.


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## nibeck (Jun 25, 2002)

Count me in qs having the issue as well, but I have a conspiracy theory. I think this *may* be a flag that the content owner can set. Disallow FF, to keep people from skipping content. It doesn't make much sense that it's active duri9ng the game, and not the commercials, but I still feel that something sneaky is going on. 

call me crazy......

_mike


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## vittoria (Apr 15, 2008)

nibeck said:


> Count me in qs having the issue as well, but I have a conspiracy theory. I think this *may* be a flag that the content owner can set. Disallow FF, to keep people from skipping content. It doesn't make much sense that it's active duri9ng the game, and not the commercials, but I still feel that something sneaky is going on.
> 
> call me crazy......
> 
> _mike


I'm not sure about the "conspiracy", but I have noticed that during certain programs on YES the 1XFF works totally normal, but during games it's back real time with an occasional burst of fast forward. Something changes from program to program.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

mattack said:


> (__ because [email protected]$# tivocommunity won't let me space indent.)


Actually, it does.
You just have to use tags.​Works pretty good, huh? ​


vittoria said:


> Something changes from program to program.


Correct. It's all about how the video is encoded/compressed. This can vary between different studios/networks/cable companies.

Here's a couple of posts from Dan203 that explains mpeg2 video and how it relates to the FF issue.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7049355#post7049355
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7110508#post7110508


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## aldiesel (Apr 12, 2004)

I recorded Merry Madagascar OTA and 1XFF would not work correctly. My in-laws had it recorded on a DVR Pal and their 1xFF works correctly. I think the problem lies partially with Tivo.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

steve614 said:


> Actually, it does.
> You just have to use tags.​Works pretty good, huh? ​
> Correct. It's all about how the video is encoded/compressed. This can vary between different studios/networks/cable companies.
> 
> ...


Thanks for those links, his explanations are reaaaaaally excellent and interesting.


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## dvrchangedme (Dec 22, 2009)

I recently and finally upgraded from an old Series 2 to a new Series 3 2-tuner HD box. I had never had any problem before. I have to believe it is related to the software upgrade that came automatically installed on my new box. The software version is now far newer that the last update that ever downloaded to my old Series 2.

As a big sports fan, and one who mostly upgraded so that they could watch a game while not missing any programs on another channel, this is highly frustrating.

Has anyone thought that this has something to do with the Comcast/TiVo merger, and the current (as I understand it) lack of this feature if you have a Comcast box? 

Sigh. I've had TiVo since 2004, but feel my frustration and loyalty fading as problems mount. Someone at corporate didn't read the Marketing 101 book about the best customer being the one you already have.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

The same problem is seen on new TivoHDs which ship with the 9.2 software.

As indicated above, the problems with FF 1x speed have nothing to do with the newer software. They are caused by the combination of (a) how TiVo implements fast forward and (b) how the broadcaster or cable company compresses their signals. To save bandwidth, many cable companies eliminate the information from the picture signal that TiVo uses for smooth 1x playback.



steve614 said:


> Correct. It's all about how the video is encoded/compressed. This can vary between different studios/networks/cable companies.
> 
> Here's a couple of posts from Dan203 that explains mpeg2 video and how it relates to the FF issue.
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7049355#post7049355
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7110508#post7110508


The Series2 recompressed all signals on the fly with all the information necessary to provide smooth 1x playback with TiVo's FF/REW implementation. The TivoHD and TiVo Series3 do not recompress digital signals; they save and playback digital signals as is, just as the broadcaster and cable companies provide them. If the broadcaster/provider passes the information used by TiVo for smooth 1x playback, then you'll have it; if they don't pass it, then you won't. Smooth 1x playback is available on most cable channels with providers that use less compression, such as Verizon FiOS.

I think most agree that TiVo needs to change its implementation of FF 1x so that it works with every channel and provider, even if it is less smooth. The smooth 1x playback we've had in the past may no longer be possible with the way many broadcasters and cable companies compress their signal to save bandwidth, but TiVo should be able to an alternative that works for everyone.

The only relation between the 1x playback issue and the v9.4 update is cable co recompression. Comcast, Cox, and Cablevision began recompressing many of their cable channels shortly before the 9.4 update was released.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

Funny, I noticed this on HD signals on my new TivoHD as well (I have 2 S1 Tivos that do a "normal" 1x FF/RW). I should note that my TivoHD is running 11.0d software, and still does this.

bkdtv - interesting explanation... that the 1x can't do a smooth-forward since the data doesn't include that info.

I will say that SD/analog content 1x FF/RW as expected...

Oh well, so much for 1x FF/RW on HD content... 2x or higher only... sad to see that the TivoHD is losing so much functionality in my eyes... little by little... versus my old S1s.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

schwinn said:


> Funny, I noticed this on HD signals on my new TivoHD as well (I have 2 S1 Tivos that do a "normal" 1x FF/RW). I should note that my TivoHD is running 11.0d software, and still does this.
> 
> bkdtv - interesting explanation... that the 1x can't do a smooth-forward since the data doesn't include that info.


The TivoHD can't do 1x FF on channels that don't include the necessary info. That is not the case on all channels. With my provider (FiOS), the local NBC HD affiliate is the only channel I watch regularly that exhibits this issue.

If you've read the owner's thread, you know that the TivoHD also adds a substantial amount of functionality not available on the Series1.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

Sorry, bkdtv... I didn't mean to imply your explanation was incomplete... I'm just surprised that this feature is taken out from the signal... or simply not included. Either way, very interesting info. While I have you, can you tell me what is missing? Is it some header info? I/B/P-frames? etc? Just curious...

As for the TivoHD, I know that it adds capability for Netflix, searching improvements, and HD, of course, but it's sad to see that QAM mapping is not there, analog has issues (I'm experiencing encoding problems, which may be specific to my defective unit), but also including gray-screen dropouts for analog, etc. This compared to my S1 which has been running flawlessly for many years... and S2s have most of the search/Netflix capability as well... so in that respect, the S3/HD are kinda annoying.

I'm not saying the THD is a bad unit... just saying that it seems flaky, particularly for something that is not a first-gen device...


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## jhstn58 (Aug 18, 2001)

This discussion leads me to the conclusion that this problem should be tuner independent, but I have the FF problem on one tuner but not the other. I tested it yesterday several times with the Steelers game on one tuner - the FF speed was 1:1 - and the Eagles game on the other - FF worked normally. This particular Tivo uses two Comcast cable cards. I initially had thought that perhaps it was a defect in the card, but that didn't make sense of course, since the FF is being controlled from the Tivo. So why would it affect only one tuner?


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

jhstn58 said:


> This discussion leads me to the conclusion that this problem should be tuner independent, but I have the FF problem on one tuner but not the other. I tested it yesterday several times with the Steelers game on one tuner - the FF speed was 1:1 - and the Eagles game on the other - FF worked normally. This particular Tivo uses two Comcast cable cards. I initially had thought that perhaps it was a defect in the card, but that didn't make sense of course, since the FF is being controlled from the Tivo. So why would it affect only one tuner?


It's not affecting only one tuner, it's happening on only the one channel (that you saw). This is a signal problem, not a hardware problem. Either the original recording or your local cable provider is incorrectly compressing that channel's signal and getting rid of key frames that the TiVo uses to FF correctly. Until TiVo (the company) can implement a work-around for the over-compression, there's not a whole lot you can do.

You may be able to substantiate this. Channels that FF does not work correctly on will often take significantly less disk space for a half-hour show than a corresponding channel (of the same type, eg 720p) that FF does work correctly on. That happens when the cable company compresses one channel (in order to provide other channels at the same frequency) but not the other.


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## NJP11 (Sep 10, 2007)

jhstn58 said:


> This discussion leads me to the conclusion that this problem should be tuner independent, but I have the FF problem on one tuner but not the other. I tested it yesterday several times with the Steelers game on one tuner - the FF speed was 1:1 - and the Eagles game on the other - FF worked normally. This particular Tivo uses two Comcast cable cards. I initially had thought that perhaps it was a defect in the card, but that didn't make sense of course, since the FF is being controlled from the Tivo. So why would it affect only one tuner?


That is probably due to one broadcast being in 720p (Fox) and the other being 1080i (CBS). My experience has found that FF works correctly on the 720p broadcasts and most of the time the trouble is with a 1080i broadcast. Unfortunately my AFC East champ Pats are mostly broadcast in 1080i because they are in the AFC and CBS has the rights to their games.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

schwinn said:


> As for the TivoHD, I know that it adds capability for Netflix, searching improvements, and HD, of course, but it's sad to see that QAM mapping is not there, analog has issues (I'm experiencing encoding problems, which may be specific to my defective unit), but also including gray-screen dropouts for analog, etc.


Out of curiosity, what are you using that the Tivo's needing analog? I'm actually not sure if I ever used ming on analog or not.

My favorite new feature is the better integrated Tivo.com support to see stuff that's going to be recorded, etc. Haven't had any issues with mine so far.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

I was using analog cable until my cable-cards showed up. Even now, I have to use some analog channels, since not all channels in my area are available digitally (Comedy Central, SpikeTV, and a few others). These show up on channels <100, and I confirm they are analog since my non-cable-box TVs can receive them as well.

The new Tivo.com stuff is neat, but after being used to the superb capability of TivoWebPlus on my S1 Tivos, the Tivo.com setup is seriously lacking. Aside from being able to setup a new recording, I don't see the real benefit of that interface. Don't get me wrong, it's a great added feature... but it could be so much better.


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## medellin618 (Jul 16, 2008)

Not sure it's cable-only problem. I have an antenna & notice similar problems with the 1x FF speed.

Only notice the problems with NFL games, not prime-time programming; and only on CBS & NBC, FOX games work fine.

Noticed problem last year in the playoffs, CBS games only; this year NBC games have also had same problem.

Used to watch games at 1x FF; was great. Now "not so much"


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

medellin618 said:


> Noticed problem last year in the playoffs, CBS games only; this year NBC games have also had same problem.


I noticed this same problem for the playoffs last weekend. It's definitely annoying, 1x FF is useless. Fortunately the 30 second skip does work pretty well, except when teams go into a "hurry up" offense.


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## smukkers22 (Apr 20, 2007)

I have issues with Cablevision NY NBCHD 704, Versus HD 719, TNTHD 737, TBSHD 739. Usually comes into play watching sports, although I have had the issue with some reg shows (Chuck, Men of a Certain Age, etc). I did call Tivo a month ago and they acted like they had no idea what I was talking about. They told me to call Cablevision as it was most likely a bad Mstream card.  I did not call as I have researched it and it seems like it is an issue with how certain channels are compressing the data. I do not want to pay to have them come out to replace a card that is perfectly fine.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

Try starting a new thread on this issue, so that you get more visibility... your statements seem to have nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

When/if you do that, post more information about what you're seeing... so that people can help you. There is no information about the problem in your post above.


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## NJP11 (Sep 10, 2007)

schwinn said:


> Try starting a new thread on this issue, so that you get more visibility... your statements seem to have nothing to do with the topic of this thread.
> 
> When/if you do that, post more information about what you're seeing... so that people can help you. There is no information about the problem in your post above.


I would sign a petition if one was started.


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## aine (Dec 23, 2003)

I have a TiVo HD but I record regular analog cable channels using my CableCARD. I just started noticing this problem during the Olympics. Single-click fast forward is the same speed as normal (1sec=1sec). This is on regular NBC (Time Warner San Diego Channel 7).

I quickly read thru the thread, but I don't see any solutions or workarounds or evidence that TiVo knows about this problem. 1x FF was one of the best features of TiVo because you could watch the action in Sports much faster, without any distortion like in 2x and 3x FF.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

Are you sure you're viewing an analog channel, and not a digital feed? My guess is that it's a digital SD feed that you're seeing. You can check by tuning into the channel, then going to the DVR Diagnostics page and seeing whether it's an analog feed, or digital... if it's digital, it can still suffer from the same problem (ie, something is missing from the video data stream, that prevents Tivo from being able to 1x FF).

Check to make sure it's an analog channel... if you're using cablecards, you may be seeing a digital 480i stream after all.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

schwinn said:


> Check to make sure it's an analog channel... if you're using cablecards, you may be seeing a digital 480i stream after all.


My Comcast system does digital for CableCARDs. Just in case someone isn't familiar with analog-digital simulcasting (ADS), here is a snippet from Wikipedia describing it:
_On cable television systems, analog-digital simulcasting (ADS) means that analog channels are duplicated as digital subchannels. Digital tuners are programmed to use the digital subchannel instead of the analog. This allows for smaller, cheaper cable boxes by eliminating the analog tuner and some analog circuitry. On DVRs, it eliminates the need for an MPEG encoder to convert the analog signal to digital for recording. The primary advantage is the elimination of interference, and as analog channels are dropped, the ability to put 10 or more SDTV (or two HDTV, or various other combinations) channels in its place. The primary drawback is the common problem of over-compression (quantity over quality) resulting in fuzzy pictures and pixelation._​
BTW, this also allows Comcast to advertise "all digital" for their lineup.


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## aine (Dec 23, 2003)

schwinn said:


> Are you sure you're viewing an analog channel, and not a digital feed? My guess is that it's a digital SD feed that you're seeing. You can check by tuning into the channel, then going to the DVR Diagnostics page and seeing whether it's an analog feed, or digital... if it's digital, it can still suffer from the same problem (ie, something is missing from the video data stream, that prevents Tivo from being able to 1x FF).
> 
> Check to make sure it's an analog channel... if you're using cablecards, you may be seeing a digital 480i stream after all.


No, I am not sure. The reason I thought it was analog was because when I first got the TiVo, the picture was snowy, and I had ghosting on local channels, like you see with analog. Time Warner guy told me that only channels 100+ are digital, but he of course could have been wrong.

Here's what I see on the DVR Diagnostics screen; can you interpret?

Tuner: 0
Channel: 7
Frequency: 561000 KHz
Modulation: QAM 256
Connector Type: RF 2
Signal Source: Cable
CAbleCARD Association: CableCARD 1
Signal Strength: 68-75 (varies)
Signal Lock: Yes
Program Lock: Yes
Search Complete: Yes
SNR: 33 dB
...


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

QAM 256 = digital... you're watching a digital SD feed of the station (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAM_(television) )

So, the explanation stands - the digital stream probably doesn't have the indexing (or whatever it is) that allows Tivo to 1x FF or RW...

In other words, it's not Tivo's fault, since it's not re-encoding the video stream... the provider isn't sending that data. If anything, you can complain to the provider (likely the network) but I doubt you'll get very far.


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## aine (Dec 23, 2003)

schwinn said:


> If anything, you can complain to the provider (likely the network) but I doubt you'll get very far.


Thanks for the info... I'm willing to complain to someone. Two questions: is it NBC as in the network, or my local affiliate, any idea?

Second, what exactly would I tell them? Technically, what is missing from the stream? I just want something "smart" to include in my email or letter, something accurate that they can act on. Thanks.


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

aine said:


> Thanks for the info... I'm willing to complain to someone. Two questions: is it NBC as in the network, or my local affiliate, any idea?


It seems like this has been happening very frequently with NBC sports...I'm seeing it with the Olympics too. I'm almost positive it's an issue with NBC, but have no confidence that anybody is knowledgeable or competent enough to do anything about it.


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## russelpo (Oct 27, 2008)

This is a fantastic thread. Thanks to everyone who has a clue, giving meaningful info to those of us that are longing for some direction.

The lack of 1x FF has been driving me insane. I have a similar story to many on this thread. My DT worked brilliantly w/ analog. to keep two tuners, which is a huge bonus, I had to upgrade to the HD when Comcast went digital. 

I spoke to 5 different Tivo support people on the lack of 1x FF topic. None had a clue. Massive frustration and waste of my time. 

they sent me a refurbed HD box. It wouldn't even boot up. They sent me another new HD box...same no-1x-ff prob. I decided to do some research - and found this thread. Obviously should have done so first. Almost told Tivo to go shove their box, and I'd go w/ DVR. Sounds like that woulnd't have helped.

Watching sports has been painful ever since the "upgrade" (to digitial and my HD box)... 1x FF was awesome to get through commercials, free throws, time outs, huddles, injuries, etc., etc.

I used to applaud Tivo's support. I no longer can. I used to be ecstatic w/ the Tivo experience. I no longer am. 

From this thread, I understand it is a compression problem. But, I also think Tivo can come up with some "workaround" that would be between zero and 2x FF. I hope they put some effort into it. I have a Tivo almost entirely for sports. The experience has been more than marginalized. I do not feel like I'm getting my money's worth from the new box nor my subscription. I regret the upgrade.

Sad - i used to be a huge fan.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

aine said:


> Thanks for the info... I'm willing to complain to someone. Two questions: is it NBC as in the network, or my local affiliate, any idea?


Not sure, but since everyone sees this, I imagine it's NBC's main feed that is missing this data, and the affiliates are simply relaying the stream as-is. All I can say is, good luck getting them to do something about it... I wouldn't hold my breath.

Makes me wonder, though, do cable company DVRs have the 1x speed, and does it work on their equipment? Anyone know?


> Second, what exactly would I tell them? Techically, what is missing from the stream? I just want something "smart" to include in my email or letter, something accurate that they can act on. Thanks.


I have asked this question here before (on this thread?): What, exactly, is missing from the stream? No one has answered that for me... I imagine it's some sort of indexing frames or something, but I certainly don't know.

I guess if someone is interested, they can pull the video down to the PC and compare one that works with one that doesn't... assuming the PC-transfer isn't blocked, of course!


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

russelpo said:


> Watching sports has been painful ever since the "upgrade" (to digitial and my HD box)... 1x FF was awesome to get through commercials, free throws, time outs, huddles, injuries, etc., etc.


I have problems with 1x FF on various channels (but not all). So I don't use it very much. But that's not quite as bad as it sounds. There are really two main alternatives:

1) 2x FF works well, once you get used to how it automatically rewinds just a little at the end. Train your fingers.

2) enable the 30-second skip forward button. This works quite well for the "typical" football game. However, when Payton Manning goes into "hurry-up offense", you will need to follow a skip forward with the 8-second rewind button. Unfortunately this scheme doesn't work nearly as well with shorter duration events like free throws.

The alternatives to 1x FF aren't great, but they're not horrible either.

I've lately started playing around with various software players for my Mac: VLC, Plex, XBMC, MPlayer OSX Extended, etc. You want "painful"? Go try to move around your files with any of those! Much worse than how TiVo lets you do it.


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## markens (Apr 12, 2007)

schwinn said:


> I have asked this question here before (on this thread?): What, exactly, is missing from the stream? No one has answered that for me... I imagine it's some sort of indexing frames or something, but I certainly don't know.


See the referenced links in post #100 of this thread. They explain the stream issue very well:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7636402#post7636402


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

markens - thanks for the link... I must have missed it.

The first post implies it might be an I/P frame issue... but doesn't say if that's what it is, exactly. I had agreed (post 107) that it was a frame issue like this, but don't have any confirmation that it was I or P (or B) frames, specifically. I'm just curious... has that been determined?

Still, that implies Tivo could improve the 1x operations in such cases, if they were so inclined. If it doesn't come with the next update (I predict one will come with the new March 2nd announcement)... then it won't be happening anytime soon.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

aine said:


> Thanks for the info... I'm willing to complain to someone. Two questions: is it NBC as in the network, or my local affiliate, any idea?
> 
> Second, what exactly would I tell them? Technically, what is missing from the stream? I just want something "smart" to include in my email or letter, something accurate that they can act on. Thanks.





TerpBE said:


> It seems like this has been happening very frequently with NBC sports...I'm seeing it with the Olympics too. I'm almost positive it's an issue with NBC, but have no confidence that anybody is knowledgeable or competent enough to do anything about it.


It is absolutely *NOT* NBC. NBC's one of the main networks I watch, and I haven't once seen anything like this in the past year I've had my HD XL. Nothing like it in the probably at least 40 hours of Olympics I taped either.

I have ATSC...so that's probably why. It could be a local affiliate, but it's probably much more likely that your cable company is compressing stuff further, and messing things up.


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## aine (Dec 23, 2003)

Over the weekend during the UCLA-ASU basketball game on CBS (SD, not HD), I saw something interesting related to this thread.

I clicked the 1x FF button, and every few seconds, it would toggle between normal "live" speed and the expected 1x FF (triple-speed, is it?) speed. That is, click FF, for a few seconds players moving normally, then speed up for a few seconds, then back to moving normally, then speed up again, and so on.

Another problem with this is that after I 1x FF to the spot I want, the TiVo does not begin to play at that spot. It seemed like it was jumping back like it does in 2x and 3x FF. One of the things that (used to) distinguish TiVo by generic DVRs is the super-smooth 1x FF, and responsive "play" after 1x FF. No longer I guess.

Has anyone else seen the behavior where 1x FF randomly speeds up and slows down every few seconds while 1x FF is active?


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## jtkohl (Feb 7, 2004)

aine said:


> Has anyone else seen the behavior where 1x FF randomly speeds up and slows down every few seconds while 1x FF is active?


Yes, I saw this a few years ago with Versus SD and downhill skiing, on Comcast. Don't have Comcast anymore, so I don't know if it still happens there.


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## vittoria (Apr 15, 2008)

aine said:


> I clicked the 1x FF button, and every few seconds, it would toggle between normal "live" speed and the expected 1x FF (triple-speed, is it?) speed. That is, click FF, for a few seconds players moving normally, then speed up for a few seconds, then back to moving normally, then speed up again, and so on.
> 
> Another problem with this is that after I 1x FF to the spot I want, the TiVo does not begin to play at that spot. It seemed like it was jumping back like it does in 2x and 3x FF. One of the things that (used to) distinguish TiVo by generic DVRs is the super-smooth 1x FF, and responsive "play" after 1x FF. No longer I guess.
> 
> Has anyone else seen the behavior where 1x FF randomly speeds up and slows down every few seconds while 1x FF is active?


Every channel where the 1xFF doesn't work exhibits the same thing you've desribed. It will shift between normal speed to a somewhat faster but jittery speed. NBC is always bad for me. YES network, too, but only during games. (During other programming 1xff on YES is fine.) SpeedTV used to be bad but now works fine. I'd say 1xff is useless on about 50% of channels I receive.

I have not noticed the other issue of not resuming play at the desired place.
----------------------------
S3 -- Cablevision -- cablecards -- no expander -- no tuning adapter.


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

Puppy76 said:


> It is absolutely *NOT* NBC. NBC's one of the main networks I watch, and I haven't once seen anything like this in the past year I've had my HD XL. Nothing like it in the probably at least 40 hours of Olympics I taped either.


Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it is "absolutely *NOT* NBC". These other posts seem to point to a trend:



adrianblack said:


> Watching the Olympics right now my Tivo HD is doing this... The first level of FF pretty much does nothing other than mute the audio. Occasional bursts of double speed...
> 
> Time Warner, dual cable cards, HDMI, Native resolutoin, *NBC* in HD





wedenton said:


> Both my S3 and HD have always done this, but only with one OTA channel (*NBC* 12-1 Richmond VA).





FiosUser said:


> The time it most is a problem is on *NBC* HD (recording the olympics). I haven't seen it any other time.





GregComeLately said:


> The problem occurred again last night for the Bears/Colts game on *NBC* via OTA HD, and continued on for after the game for my local *NBC* affiliate programming.





FiosUser said:


> I've only had this happen 2 times in my life. Both times were on the USA Men's Basketball games on *NBC* during this past olympics.





deaddeeds said:


> I noticed the 1XFF problem Sunday on *NBC* HD with my S3 during the Cowboy's game but last night on ESPN HD it was back to normal.





Poochie said:


> Another evening of "slow" 1xFF on Sunday Night Football on *NBC*.





jbernardis said:


> One further observation on this issue - it only seems to happen on *NBC* HD.





Poochie said:


> I also continue to notice it with SNL on *NBC*. I'll check a shorter *NBC* HD program (e.g. 30 Rock) to see if a short *NBC* program exhibits the same behavior.





jbernardis said:


> I agree with the above post. My experience is that this happens ONLY on *NBC* HD, whether cable or OTA.





rifleman69 said:


> I'm noticing it on *NBC*-related broadcasts as well, including those on another network such as the 10pm news produced by the local *NBC* affiliate on another channel.





Poochie said:


> Nope, I still see this to this day on some of the channels, as I've indicated earlier. *NBC* (for Sunday Night Football) is the most annoying.





FiosUser said:


> Watching Saturday Night Live recorded from *NBC* HD had the problem.
> 
> Seems I've had the problem most with *NBC*, but also Fox Sports West.





blacknoi said:


> This happened to me during the Thanksgiving day parade as broadcast on *NBC*HD on my S3... using the live buffer.





rifleman69 said:


> Anyone notice the pattern, it has something to do with *NBC* or *NBC*-related stations (besides FSN-HD)? Wonder if there's something that's not being sent out right.





jbernardis said:


> This still happens to me on *NBC*DT - both cable and OTA. I was hoping that the fall update would fix it but no dice.





FiosUser said:


> On the other hand, *NBC*HD has this problem all the time now (not just on sports shows--like I had previously thought).





Rockaway Bruce said:


> I'm having the same 1x ff issue. Mostly occurs with *NBC* HD.





Rockaway Bruce said:


> It does seem that this issue primarily (only?) occurs on *NBC* HD and Comcast Sports Net (non-HD).





FiosUser said:


> I see the problem today watching a recording of Saturday Night Live from *NBC* HD.





bkdtv said:


> On my provider (FiOS), 1x FF works on every SD and HD channel except for WRC (*NBC*4 in DC).





FiosUser said:


> My 1x FF on FIOS in Orange County still does not work on *NBC* HD.





bkdtv said:


> With my provider (FiOS), the local *NBC* HD affiliate is the only channel I watch regularly that exhibits this issue.





medellin618 said:


> Noticed problem last year in the playoffs, CBS games only; this year *NBC* games have also had same problem.





smukkers22 said:


> I have issues with Cablevision NY *NBC*HD 704





aine said:


> I have a TiVo HD but I record regular analog cable channels using my CableCARD. I just started noticing this problem during the Olympics. Single-click fast forward is the same speed as normal (1sec=1sec). This is on regular *NBC* (Time Warner San Diego Channel 7).


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

TerpBE said:


> Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it is "absolutely *NOT* NBC". These other posts seem to point to a trend:


Not really. Only 4 of those are confirmed ATSC, and if it were NBC, I'd be seeing it too. Since I don't, it can't be NBC.


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

Puppy76 said:


> Not really. Only 4 of those are confirmed ATSC, and if it were NBC, I'd be seeing it too. Since I don't, it can't be NBC.


Most people aren't saying that it happens _all the time_ with _all _NBC programming.

I went outside today and it was bright and sunny. That doesn't mean I'll assume that rain never falls from the sky.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

TerpBE said:


> Most people aren't saying that it happens _all the time_ with _all _NBC programming.
> 
> I went outside today and it was bright and sunny. That doesn't mean I'll assume that rain never falls from the sky.


Yes, but it doesn't EVER happen for me in over a year of use, including things that are triggering the behavior for others.


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## wtherrell (Dec 23, 2004)

Was thinking of getting a Premiere XL but not until I see that Tivo has fixed or worked around this problem. Anyone know if the Premiere has this fixed. (Yes, I know that it's lack of info in the compressed stream from provider, but the Tivo output is reading off a hard disk and they should have a workaround by now)


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## [email protected] (Jan 20, 2009)

Premiere Elite doesn't fix the problem.


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## rocketscientist (Oct 11, 2011)

Anyone know if TIVO now acknowledges this problem, or do they still claim ignorance about it? I just recently "upgraded" from a series 2 to TIVO HD and the lack of a functional 2x FF is really annoying.


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## rocketscientist (Oct 11, 2011)

Follow-up on this topic after talking with TIVO support today. Like everyone else who tried to call TIVO on this issue, the first person I talked with had no knowledge of this problem. I insisted on talking with a supervisor, and a different person was placed on the phone and he was immediately aware of this problem and offered a explanation. He said that this problem is caused by variations in the digital stream and encoding that for some signals prevents from working properly the normal algorithm that the software uses to provide the first FF speed (which is supposed to be 2X speed). He said TIVO has been aware of this for a very long time, and they have tried several software mods to correct it but they have not eliminated the problem. He said they still continue to work this issue, but have no timetable for a possible fix. I commented to him that there are many others with this problem, and he indicated that of the total TIVO population of customers out there only a small fraction actually experience this problem, as some users apparently don't have the issue. He said that such things as cable company encoding differences, signal strength, line length to hubs, etc all play into the problem. His explanation as to why there is nothing on the TIVO website about this is because "it is not TIVO policy to post bugs in the FAQ section", and that a relatively small portion of their customer base have the issue. For me that reason is misguided to say the least.

I strongly suggested him that it would be much better for TIVO to post something about this so that those customers who ARE having the problem would at least understand why it is happening, and might be somewhat satisfied to know that TIVO recognizes the problem and might continue to work to correct it. I made him aware that it is MUCH WORSE to try to pretend the problem doesn't exist and instead better post what they know.

My suggestion to others is to call TIVO and ask for a ticket to be opened on this issue for them to be submitted to "level 2". That way maybe if there is enough documentation in their system they will make a renewed attempt at correcting the issue.

A comment was made by the supervisor that he thought the Premier machines did not have this problem. I let him know that according to at least one post in this thread they do. Of course now that I think about it, if TIVO thinks Premier machines work fine, why haven't they taken that knowledge to help them make changes to Series 3 to correct it on those machines as well....?


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

Never in 6 years have I noticed this issue in 3 Series 2 units(2 still in use), and 4 years with the Tivo HD, still running (almost)perfectly.


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## rocketscientist (Oct 11, 2011)

Consider yourself lucky. I have only had a TIVO HD for three weeks (it was new when I activated it however) and have the problem on several channels. It apparently depends on many factors. I wish I was one of the lucky ones, as I really liked using the first FF speed to help quickly watch a recorded NFL game.


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

rocketscientist said:


> I really liked using the first FF speed to help quickly watch a recorded NFL game.


The 30 second skip button works very well for quickly getting through football games. As soon as one play ends, hit "->|" and you should be almost up to the next snap.

If they're calling plays quickly and you're skipping past the play, hit the replay button before you hit the 30 second skip, so you're actually skipping ahead 22 seconds (8 back, 30 forward).


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

It really is channel dependent. In Houston, the CBS affiliate has the 1X problem. Almost no difference between regular and 1X. And this is true whether I'm watching via Comcast or antenna (I have both).

But ABC & NBC, and every other cable channel, all work properly. 1X is about three times the speed. I love it for news programs--captions still roll at 1X, so you can speed thru the news and still follow it.

It's a shame that about half of what I record from OTA is on CBS.


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## [email protected] (Jan 20, 2009)

By the way, something I haven't seen mentioned about the 1xFF problem is that it only affects forward, not reverse 1xFF (or is it called 1xFR for fast reverse?). But to be honest, reverse 1xFF is affected in how choppy it appears, but at lease it does 1xFF. My guess is that whenever TiVo pulls its head out of the sand to address this issue, channels affected will get this same choppy look when doing 1xFF forward. Choppy is better than nothing...


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## alorstar (Jan 9, 2012)

I hate the new change to the fast forward. The 4th time the FF was pressed backed up the program just enough to not miss any of the show. Tech support said that many complaints are pouring in. If enough Tivo owners complain, there is a chance they will go back to the way the fast forward used to be. EVERYONE NEEDS TO CALL AND COMPLAIN! Ask the Tivo technical suport rep to fill out a complaint form.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

I prefer the new FF. I used to sometimes jump past 3X to 4X when I didn't mean to. Now it locks in. I always pressed PLAY to stop the FF.


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## sender_name (Feb 12, 2005)

ha...I have had this FF problem forever with NBCHD and NESNHD...I like to watch my Bruins Hockey in 1xff and it's been horrible lately...I just never bothered to search it out because I knew it would be some sort of encoding/bit stream/garbldeygock error..


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## rambler (Dec 3, 2005)

This sucks. Tivo HD won't advance quicker using the first FF (on movies transferred from my PC). Tivo Premiere won't show captions in first FF, nor will it advance quicker using the first FF (on movies transferred from my PC).


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