# The 20.2 changelog thread



## crxssi

OK, since TiVo doesn't issue a real changelog/buglist, we have to build one ourselves. This is meant to be a changelog/buglist from 14.9 to 20.2 based on a Premiere non-Elite. I will try to keep this #1 posting updated with all the issues as they are listed. The previous changelog, for 14.9, is here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=480226

*Summary*
This release contains new features, a few significant interface changes, and fixes several bugs. Mostly HDUI changes, there are some significant performance increases there (and none in the SDUI). The rollout for this release is coming surprisingly quickly from the 14.9 update.

*1 Non-UI or Both UI*
*1.1 Both/Non-UI Postive*
1.1.1 The *update time* took 18 min and 31 seconds on my Premiere which is MUCH faster than previous updates. This might vary some from box-to-box depending on drive size and amount of data on it. And it still no longer gets stuck booting up when the Slide Remote bluetooth dongle is left in the TiVo. This long-standing and frustrating bug appears to remain fixed.

1.1.2 It is reported that the problems with *Netflix video/audio sync* introduced in 14.9 have been fixed. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=480590

1.1.3 *Multiroom streaming *will be officially supported on this release. This feature enables live-viewing of programs from remote Premieres on the same network.

1.1.4 Supposedly, the *OTA tuners* appear to be able to lock onto more channels than previously. When scanning OTA for channels, it will find more stations.

1.1.5 The *background of the SD* menus has changed, and it is very significant. This will affect everything in the SDUI and the SD menus used in the HDUI. The background used to be animated (including the logo) and changed color depending on what function you were using. Now, it is a static, mostly blue background with very high-resolution TiVo Guy logo. This matches the background of the HDUI, so it will make transitioning more consistent looking. It is also less distracting for SDUI users. Some people may find this change to be negative instead of positive.

*1.2 Both/Non-UI Negative*
1.2.1 The Select-Play-Select-9-Play code for displaying the *on-screen clock* and play-time-remaining during replays is gone and there is no replacement. Play-time-remaining is available by pressing Play or Pause but the clock is available only by returning to the main menu. It also display seconds, which some people find distracting and unnecessary, and it displays the clock in the center of the screen on HDUI (but lower right corner in SDUI). One person reported having the clock display on HDUI will cause performance and screen drawing issues.

1.2.2 The "*This group is empty" bug* that the previous changelog reported as "fixed" in the SDUI, is actually occurring in the HDUI now. It could be it is back in the SDUI, also. This bug will cause the display the above message if one deletes programs in the suggestion list too rapidly, then kick the user back one level in the menu. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=470339

1.2.3 *Closed captions* no longer appear on the screen while using 1xFF+ (first fast play) while in the SDUI or HDUI. Margret later explained it was due to technical reasons and implied this feature will not return.

1.2.4 With *repeating manual recordings* setup, it is possible that multiple duplicate entries will appear in the recording history as "will not record" with reason of not being in program guide. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=481547

1.2.5 There are some *metadata issues* with programs transferred via network to the TiVo. Further, there are some reports of extended metadata missing from programs pulled back from the Premiere, even in a .TiVo format file.

1.2.6 HME (*Home Media Engine SDK*) programs might have incorrect text display Also, at least one report of an HME actually crashing the Premiere. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8908963

1.2.7 There are reports that the *network transfer speed* is not as fast as it was in 14.9, although it is still faster than it was before 14.9. (It is perhaps 12% slower) http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8909374#post8909374

1.2.8 Recordings on the Premiere, transferred to a computer, then transferred back and played on the Premiere no longer display *closed captions*. The captions do exist in the .TiVo files and can be seen on a computer. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8958577#post8958577

*2 SDUI*
*2.1 SDUI Positive*
2.1.1 The ability to *rapidly delete programs* without delays/warnings, using the clear key is back. It was ruined in the 14.9 update because a "Please wait" screen would come up between every keypress. Now it is immediate, just like it used to be!

2.1.2 *Resume position* in the SDUI was sometimes lost when returning to TiVo central and replaying a program. For some people it was all the time, others never or occasionally. First reported in 14.9. Same users are reporting it is now fixed. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=480279

*2.2 SDUI Negative*
2.2.1 Occasionally, when trying to *delete a program* from Now Playing using the clear key, it will refuse to delete and offer a "bong" sound, instead. If one goes into the program details, it can be deleted. Or if one leaves Now Playing and returns, it can be deleted.

2.2.2 From my shows, select a program to view description, then back out of it, then play another show using the play button. When using the left arrow to back out of the playback, the *cursor/select is not returned* to the program that was just played. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8911517#post8911517

*3 HDUI*
*3.1 HDUI Positive*
3.1.1 Users are reporting various HDUI *performance increases*. Examples include: most screen transitions and information display. Hopefully we will have some more quantitative data later. TiVo says it starting using using Adobe Air with 2.X version software instead of (now-deprecated) Flash use with pre 2.X.

3.1.2 The HDUI now has a *newly redesigned guide* (There are two versions, a "Live" guide and a "Grid" guide:
3.1.2.1 It includes *more information*, such as the episode number, season number, and first air date. Also will display year of release for movies.

3.1.2.2 It also can display a *longer time period* of schedule on a single screen.

3.1.2.3 *Status indicators* are displayed. Recording (red circle), to-be-recorded (blue check), and season passes (double check) are indicated in the grid.

3.1.2.4 There is a small *live video window* on the upper right of the guide screen (although it can't be disabled, see below)

3.1.2.5 There is more room for the *channel names*. Apparently 8 characters. For example "ESPN..." can now be displayed as "ESPN3HD".

3.1.2.6 A *white plus icon* will indicate when a program is available from a source or channel that is not available because it is turned off in settings.

3.1.2.7 In both guides, *pressing "select"* on a current time slot takes you to that program for immediate live viewing, instead of the old behavior of offering recording options.

3.1.2.8 In both guides, *pressing "info"* on an item at the current time slot will display recording options

3.1.2.9 In the grid guide, shows that are in the *past are displayed with a darker color *than current or upcoming shows.​
3.1.3 The HDUI *information pop-up* (press "info" while watching a program):
3.1.3.1 Has *changed location* to the BOTTOM of the screen (this is a new location for any type of dialog, other than the shuttle/position indicator). (NOTE: While most people like the change, some people find this to be a negative or wish to have user-control over the location).

3.1.3.2 The order of some of the *menu entries* on it have changed.

3.1.3.3 There is an *"UP NEXT"* line on the bottom, showing the next scheduled program for the current tuner/channel.

3.1.3.4 The status bar now indicates the *status of the tuners* as a menu option, even during playback of a recording. Selecting the option will indicate channel and program is on each.​
3.1.4 The *channel change pop-up* (press chan up/down while watching a program) has also moved location to the BOTTOM of the screen.

3.1.5 There is now a *time-of-day clock* displayed on most HDUI menu screens.

3.1.6 Numerous *discovery bar changes*:
3.1.6.1 Includes *labels* below each picture, telling the user what type of object it is. Examples include "suggestion", "new on demand", "top pick", "popular on web", and "in my shows" (feedback on this addition has been mixed).

3.1.6.2 It contains *fewer objects* and does not scroll anymore. It has six when live preview is off and four when preview is visible.

3.1.6.3 The *bar now fades* from dim to bright after an update, instead of just going instantly from dim to bright. This change tends to make the annoying, delayed screen updating of discovery bar elements somewhat less annoying and less noticeable.

3.1.6.4 The *options* for "less, more, normal" have been changed to allow selection of different types, such as popular, sports, top picks, etc. If you uncheck them all, then it mostly displays entries for what is playing now (there is still no way to turn off the discovery bar).​
3.1.7 *My Shows now uses "new" labels* beside certain recorded programs and folders. Folders are labeled "new" if they contain any new items. Shows are marked "new" that are marked as "first run".

3.1.8 The *delete confirmation dialog* box at the end of a show is now in HD resolution instead of SD.

3.1.9 *Hulu Plus* is integrated into the search function.

3.1.10 The *shuttle/progress bar* now shows hours and minutes below the bar (like in the SDUI), using hours and min instead of hh:mm format, and the bar is thinner (less tall) and the green area does not fill the whole bar (having a logo on the left and total time on the right).

3.1.11 The *search function menu* has changed in design and:
3.1.11.1 It now shows *content providers* on the right side.

3.1.11.2 It also allows the creation of *wishlists* based off your search.

3.1.11.3 You can now search for channels by *channel name* (like "ABC")​
3.1.12 The *HDUI menu screen animation* has changed. It has a different type of slide-while-fading-in type effect.

3.1.13 The *find menu now separates* out the online provider menu entries with a dotted line.

3.1.14 There is a new "*mini grid guide*" that will appear when you press "select" while watching a program or live TV. It displays the current channel and the next two channels over a two hour period. Use "clear" to exit it without selecting the program under the cursor.

3.1.15 The *station/channel logos* have been updated.

3.1.16 "Top Picks" and "My Favorites" menu entries were removed from *"Browse TV & Movies"*. (NOTE: This is not necessarily a "positive").

3.1.17 The green, animated, spinning, *busy circle* has been replaced with a blue, animated, spinning, [flower] petal circle. During periods it is visible, all user interaction with the HDUI is halted. (NOTE: This is not really a "positive", just a change).

3.1.18 If there is no working *Internet connection*, the Premiere will now allow users to still access program details. Prior, no Internet meant the user could not even select a program to see details or get to playback (play was only available by pressing the play button on the remote). http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8932421#post8932421 CONFIRMATION NEEDED

3.1.19 Searching for programs while in *daylight savings time* would result in program air times that were indicated 1 hour too soon. This has been fixed. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=470874

*3.2 HDUI Negative*
3.2.1 *HDUI Guide* related:
3.2.1.1 When the guide is visible, pressing the "*guide" or "clear" button* to dismiss the guide results in the display of the medium-sized info banner, instead. This is unexpected behavior.

3.2.1.2 When scheduling a recording from the HD Program Guide, the guide switches to *"SD" mode to display "Please Wait"* and then back to HD for the confirmation dialog.

3.2.1.3 Guide has no way to turn off or *stop the live preview in guide*. This is consistent with the old guide behavior, but it does not match the rest of the HDUI, which honors a user preference or allows the user to press "|>" to temporarily stop it.

3.2.1.4 When performing certain actions on programs from the guide, like scheduling or cancelling a recording or changing recording options, the *live preview window* might jump to full screen for a few seconds, then go back to the preview window size again.

3.2.1.5 After selecting a show to record from the guide, the *guide is reloaded* and the cursor is placed back at the beginning of the list instead of being restored where it was.http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8895588

3.2.1.6 It is no longer possible to select an entry that is scheduled for recording and press clear to *cancel the recording *as was possible in the previous version of the guide, if other showings will be recorded. In such cases, it is only possible to cancel through the todo list. CLARIFICATION NEEDED

3.2.1.7 It is no longer possible to turn on any type of *filter* based on content type while in the new guide.

3.2.1.8 Programs *marked as "new"* show their first aired date as 1 day before the actual date the program is airing. Also, the "new" labels will sometimes disappear when switching to/from grid style to/from live style. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8897804

3.2.1.9 After selecting a *program to record* from the grid guide or mini guide, while watching a recording, when it redraws the guide, it places the cursor on the lowest channel instead of on the channel you just were, or on the channel the foreground tuner is using. Curiously, it doesn't do that when in the live guide. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8902409#post8902409​
3.2.2 It is no longer possible to use the right arrow to cycle through the different versions of the *channel/program info display*.

3.2.3 You can no longer *thumbs up or down* on items in the discovery bar.

3.2.4 *HDUI On-Screen-Banner* Related:
3.2.4.1 The select button brings up the mini guide now which disrupts *entering SPS codes*. However, you can still enter SPS code while playing a Showcase video or while the Info banner is up; or by temporarily switching to SDUI.

3.2.4.2 When *entering channel numbers* in "live" TV viewing, on the info banner or mini guide, they stop at 4 digits and do not wrap around as they used to do. So there is no way to correct a typo, you have to wait for the incorrect channel or exit the info banner/mini guide.

3.2.4.3 The *first aired date* for the program displayed on the banner is 1 day before the actual aired date. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8951103#post8951103​
3.2.5 Some people report that their *play/pause location is lost* when switching back and forth between watching two recording programs. It is unclear if this is only HDUI. MORE INFO NEEDED http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8895588#post8895588

3.2.6 *Deleting a Program* Related:
3.2.6.1 There are times when deleting a program from suggestions, using the clear button, then moving the cursor down a few menu entries, will result in two or more *screen redrawings.* http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8901062

3.2.6.2 There are times when it is seemingly *impossible to delete* a program. Such programs will not delete on the TiVo Suggestions screen (the "x" will sit there forever or it just makes the "x" disappear without deleting), nor if selected then deleted. When played back, there is an error displayed about the channel and forces an exit. Sometimes it can be deleted at that point. If played a SECOND time, it will play normally, the user can exit and then delete it. This often happens when trying to stop two recordings and it frequently causes the first to become undeletable/unplayable.

3.2.6.3 There are occasions when trying to delete a program, the popup menu will have *no option highlighted* and any key press results in a very low-tone "bong". Usually after a minute, the *entire HDUI will restart*, complete with the TiVo intro animation. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9025455#post9025455 http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9026619#post9026619​
3.2.7 When transferring network video to the Premiere (from, for example, PyTiVo), some users have noticed the *HDUI menu screen can "quiver" *or "shake" vertically, rapidly, by a pixel or two. It can also cause light stuttering in HD video playback during the transfer. Confirmed, but not known if this started in 20.2 http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8974053

3.2.8 When performing a *one-time record of a show from the Guide* and try to add time to it, if the show is not the next airing, you have to scroll through "upcoming" to find the episode you want to record. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8909900 NEEDS CONFIRMATION

3.2.9 When deleting a recording that is the *lowest menu entry* in a folder,the cursor will be placed at the highest menu entry, when it should have moved up by only one entry. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8953358#post8953358

*4 Unresolved/Carry-Over*
4.0 *Kidzone* is still not available while using the HDUI. However, there is mention that the Spring 2012 update will have some parental controls in the HDUI.

4.1 *Performance improvements in the HDUI* still do not lead to a completely fluid user interface, mostly due to the delayed, live, internet-based loading of certain information, such as the discovery bar, and program graphics. Some screens take up to 6 seconds to finish drawing/updating everything. Many users report that initial drawing of "My Shows" now takes longer than in the 14.9 update. User expectations and reporting of performance are widely varied.

4.2 The reporting of the *program size disk space* is still wrong on the SDUI. They changed it to read "GB" but the reported numbers are 100 times smaller than the actual space it is using. However, in the HDUI, it is correct. First discovered in 14.9. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=480288

4.3 The Premiere is still *upconverting to 720P*, even if 480P is selected in video settings. First reported in 14.9. Some suspect it might have to do with needing to display HD overlays and popups when viewing SD material. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=479153

4.4 There are still times when "*Stop and Delete*" in the HDUI will stop the program recording but will not delete the program. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8892799#post8892799

4.5 The *KidZone dialog bug* for the "Please Wait" dialog when selecting KidZone is still present. The dialog displays almost completely off the screen. This bug was introduced in 14.9.

4.6 When *scrolling through wishlists*, it can be very slow when using the channel down button, and presents a "Please Wait" dialog each time. Issue first occurred in 14.9. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8871667#post8871667

4.7 Some users experience pixelation (macroblocking) when trying to watch *Amazon VOD* programming. This bug was introduced as early as early 2011, and might be addressed in the planned Spring 2012 update http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=467790&highlight=Amazon+pixelation&page=3

4.8 When selecting and recording a *season pass from the guide*, the Premiere will select the channel of the first airing of that program, rather than the channel on the selected program. Do not know when this started or if this has been that way forever. HDUI ONLY?

4.9 Over-the-air digital broadcasts that contain *audio-only programming* (with no video) will not tune on the Premiere.

_Version 45_


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## crxssi

Like I said above, it is going to take me some time to get all the changes gathered and keyed. Those with ver 20.2 should definitely look through the 14.9 changelog ( http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=480226 ) and test the issues reported there (I will too).


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## moyekj

HDUI issue: With the Guide up if you press "Guide" or "Clear" to dismiss the guide you get the Small Info banner overlay shortly after. Naturally it's expected you get no overlay, especially when using "Clear" button.

HDUI & SDUI issue: If you have one or more repeating Manual Recording Season Passes the "View Recording History" shows tons of consecutive "Will Not Record" entries with reason: "This program will not be recorded because it is no longer in the program guide". I see roughly 9 entries as such for every day the recording is supposed to happen. Note that the recordings do indeed record as expected, so this is useless info that just pollutes the Recording History screen with wrong messages.


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## oViTynoT

I'm not sure about 2.1.1.. I still have 14.9, and I don't have that problem in the SDUI. I *DO* have that problem in the HDUI.

... 14.9 still has the EXTREMELY annoying problem (even the S3 had it) that if you clear a big consecutive block of programs (6 or 7+) that the "current position" will often be flung clear to the bottom of the Now Playing list, so you have to scroll all the way back up to where you where when you did the delete. Hoping THAT is fixed in 20.2...


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## sbiller

I've created an album in Google+ here --> https://plus.google.com/photos/102891277916887175821/albums/5695347157672117969


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## andyf

moyekj said:


> HDUI issue: With the Guide up if you press "Guide" or "Clear" to dismiss the guide you get the Medium Info banner overlay shortly after. Naturally it's expected you get no overlay, especially when using "Clear" button.


Agreed on this one.

If you change channels via the guide the medium banner should come up, but if you just bring up the guide and then close it the small banner shouldn't come up.

With the mini-guide if you change channels only the small banner comes up, not the medium banner. But if you clear it neither banner comes up.

A little inconsistent there, I would expect the behavior of the guide and the mini-guide to be the same when changing channels or just clearing the guide.


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## mmf01

Looks like the Netflix issue posted below has been resolved in this update. No more sync issues as of this release..

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=480590


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## ward_ja

The Select-Play-Select-9-Play code for displaying on-screen play-time-remaining and clock during replays is gone and there is no replacement. Play-time-remaining is available by pressing Play or Pause but the clock is available only by returning to the main menu.

Inconvenient.


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## xander777

If you press select and then SPS9S you will get the clock. Unfortunately, it'd dead center in the screen for me.


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## andyf

HDUI: The Delete Confirmation dialog box at the end of a show is now in HD instead of SD.


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## Innerloop

HDUI Neg: When scheduling a recording from the HD Program Guide, the guide switches to "SD" mode to display "Please Wait" and then back to HD for the confirmation dialog, an unnecessary round-trip.

HDUI: The "New" icon appeares next to folder that contain NEW items
HDUI: The "New" icon appears on guide shows that are marked as First-Run
HDUI: More information about the selected show appears in the HD Program Guide including episode number/season number and first air-date.


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## brentil

Once I get 20 I'll run my benchmarks.


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## lessd

ward_ja said:


> The Select-Play-Select-9-Play code for displaying on-screen play-time-remaining and clock during replays is gone and there is no replacement. Play-time-remaining is available by pressing Play or Pause but the clock is available only by returning to the main menu.
> 
> Inconvenient.


That works for me on my one TPXL with V20.2 software, I have to use it when watching an already recoded program, I am using the SDUI but when watching a program that should not make any difference, or should it ?


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## moyekj

lessd said:


> That works for me on my one TPXL with V20.2 software, I have to use it when watching an already recoded program, I am using the SDUI but when watching a program that should not make any difference, or should it ?


 In HDUI Select brings up Info banner now which disrupts entering SPS codes. There are workarounds however: You can still enter SPS code while playing a Showcase video or while the Info banner is up (i.e. Select 1st time to bring up Info, then SPS code from there while the banner is displayed).


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## danjw1

Does anyone have 2 Tivos that have this update? If so, are you able to use streaming?


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## eddieb187

New Upgraded HD UI Channel Logos. Very Nice.


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## innocentfreak

danjw1 said:


> Does anyone have 2 Tivos that have this update? If so are you able to use streaming?


Streaming won't be activated until after the official roll out.


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## crxssi

OK, here we go....

* First several hours of things added to the first post in this thread.

* I tried to add from as many sources (threads) as possible. However, since there has been furious posting over the last few days in just a few generic threads, I can't meaningfully site "sources" yet, like I did for the other changelog.

* There are so many changes on certain aspects of the HDUI, I found it necessary to add yet another level to the outline to help make it easier to find related changes. This was done mostly for the positives and not the negatives (yet).

* There are bound to be errors. Please let me know, of course.

* At this point, it is version 6, since although I didn't announce the changes, it has already been updated many times.


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## moyekj

crxssi, I think perhaps you missed my bug listed above about repeating Manual Recordings screwing up Recording History screen? Great job on putting this together - it takes a lot of effort to do so I know.


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## lessd

moyekj said:


> In HDUI Select brings up Info banner now which disrupts entering SPS codes. There are workarounds however: You can still enter SPS code while playing a Showcase video or while the Info banner is up (i.e. Select 1st time to bring up Info, then SPS code from there while the banner is displayed).


I just tested out the SPS9S code, in the SDUI; it works as before but in the HDUI it does not work as before. If you turn it on in the SDUI than go to the HDUI the time shows up in the middle of the screen in small print, as this is not a documented feature its hard to call it a bug, but i hope it gets fixed.


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## megazone

moyekj said:


> HDUI issue: With the Guide up if you press "Guide" or "Clear" to dismiss the guide you get the Medium Info banner overlay shortly after. Naturally it's expected you get no overlay, especially when using "Clear" button.


Maybe we're not using the same terms. What I've seen used elsewhere:
Small - The program info banner that comes up when you first enter a program or change the channel.
Medium - The half-screen overlay that comes up if you press Info. (As opposed to the half-screen Guide that comes up with Select.)
Full - The full screen guide that comes up when you press Guide.

If I press Guide and bring up the full screen Guide, then press Guide again I get the small banner briefly - not the Medium banner. Same if I press Clear.

I'm fine with that, I haven't even really noticed it until I saw it pointed out here.

If you did mean the Medium (half-screen) banner, can you post detailed steps to repro? I'm using a TiVo Premiere Elite.


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## megazone

lessd said:


> I just tested out the SPS9S code, in the SDUI; it works as before but in the HDUI it does not work as before. If you turn it on in the SDUI than go to the HDUI the time shows up in the middle of the screen in small print, as this is not a documented feature its hard to call it a bug, but i hope it gets fixed.


 I brought this up on Twitter the first night and Magret responded: https://twitter.com/#!/tivodesign/status/155359375685455872



> @MegaZone Yeah, sorry, it was a victim of tradeoffs. I'll see what I can do to get it restored in a future release.


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## moyekj

megazone said:


> Maybe we're not using the same terms. What I've seen used elsewhere:
> Small - The program info banner that comes up when you first enter a program or change the channel.
> Medium - The half-screen overlay that comes up if you press Info. (As opposed to the half-screen Guide that comes up with Select.)
> Full - The full screen guide that comes up when you press Guide.
> 
> If I press Guide and bring up the full screen Guide, then press Guide again I get the small banner briefly - not the Medium banner. Same if I press Clear.
> 
> I'm fine with that, I haven't even really noticed it until I saw it pointed out here.
> 
> If you did mean the Medium (half-screen) banner, can you post detailed steps to repro? I'm using a TiVo Premiere Elite.


 You're right it's the "small" banner. But pressing "clear" IMO should never result in an overlay appearing. The whole point of clear is to clear any overlays so to me it's a bug. The SDUI guide behaves as expected still.


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## rahnbo

I don't have the update yet but how are people going about "clearing" the guide now in the HDUI?


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## megazone

rahnbo said:


> I don't have the update yet but how are people going about "clearing" the guide now in the HDUI?


 You mean getting it off the screen? I just hit Guide again, or Clear.


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## rahnbo

megazone said:


> You mean getting it off the screen? I just hit Guide again, or Clear.


Yes that's what I mean. I thought hitting Guide or Clear just brought up a different mini-guide. Or do you mean to hit it twice?


----------



## joejet

I noticed a bug last night. Had two programs recording and while in the guide i could not change channels... meaning, normally you can pick a program in the guide and Tivo will warn you that you have to cancel a recording.. it did it once, i didnt allow it to change, but then later on tried another show and "select" did nothing.. did not bring up the warning nor change to the channel i wanted.

I had to go to my shows.. cancel the recording manually, then i was able to change the channel.


----------



## cherry ghost

joejet said:


> I noticed a bug last night. Had two programs recording and while in the guide i could not change channels... meaning, normally you can pick a program in the guide and Tivo will warn you that you have to cancel a recording.. it did it once, i didnt allow it to change, but then later on tried another show and "select" did nothing.. did not bring up the warning nor change to the channel i wanted.
> 
> I had to go to my shows.. cancel the recording manually, then i was able to change the channel.


What if you clear the guide and enter the channel number?


----------



## comma splice

I don't have the update yet, either, but it looks like one feature you missed on the changelog is the ability to *sort channels in the guide by name*.

That's new, right?

How are people liking that feature? Seems cool, especially for spouses or guests who don't/won't memorize channel numbers.


----------



## Kivo

I surprised no one has mentioned this change, but the pause ads are now gone!


----------



## compnurd

I have a problem with this one 

3.2.9 Performance improvements still do not lead to a completely fluid user interface, mostly due to the delayed, live, internet-based loading of certain information, such as the discovery bar, and program graphics. Some screens take up to 6 seconds to finish drawing/updating everything.

I still think people are trying to compare this UI to an old text based interface that will never compare in terms of speed. I have had nothing take up to 6 sec on any screen.. even back on 14.9.2

Is the HDUI as close in speed to the POS interface my cable company provides, No that was lighting quick. But is was completely basic, ugly as hell and screwed up


----------



## jeff92k7

Kivo said:


> I surprised no one has mentioned this change, but the pause ads are now gone!


I wondered about that this morning. I couldn't recall seeing them at all yesterday, but am away from my TiVo's right now so I couldn't verify.

Jeff


----------



## EldRick

I believe that the "New" mentioned in 3.1.7 was there in 14.9.2 - I noticed it there yesterday.



> the pause ads are now gone!


If correct, that's huge! I'm Very tired of having to dismiss the obnoxious exhortations to watch "Morning Joe". These annoying forced interstitials alone are enough to keep me from ever taking a look at the show.


----------



## colforbin13

jeff92k7 said:


> I wondered about that this morning. I couldn't recall seeing them at all yesterday, but am away from my TiVo's right now so I couldn't verify.
> 
> Jeff


I have seen these a few times, mostly saying "Shouldn't you be watching _Morning Joe_". They look a little different now with the new HD look, but they are still there, unfortunately.


----------



## EldRick

Whichever adman that decided that annoying the customers with the "Morning Joe" ads was a good idea should be fired!


----------



## aaronwt

I thought this feature was new but maybe not. Now when I hit the info button and I see what is on the other three tuners on the Elite, I can select the tuner I want instead of cycling through the tuners. 
Was this a feature before? I don't remember ever being able to select a specific tuner.

I know with the two tuners models you were always able to go to the other tuner.


----------



## mask2343

Seems to me we are praising stuff that should have been in the original UI. The fact that the Netflix and Amazon "apps" haven't been touched is pretty embarrassing. My Roku just got a new Amazon VOD app and it is great. My Blur-ray player has a better Netflix app. Tivo should be miles ahead of a company like Roku. 

I love the Tivo...especially since I'm a chord cutter. I just find myself using my AppleTV to do Netflix which I really shouldn't have to do.


----------



## beejay

aaronwt said:


> I thought this feature was new but maybe not. Now when I hit the info button and I see what is on the other three tuners on the Elite, I can select the tuner I want instead of cycling through the tuners.
> Was this a feature before? I don't remember ever being able to select a specific tuner.


No, that's new.


----------



## comma splice

Any thoughts on the ability to sort guide channels alphabetically? Has anyone tested?

New feature, right?


----------



## sbiller

beejay said:


> No, that's new.


Correct, from the TiVo PR:



> Multiple Tuner Icons - There are now "multiple tuner" icons in the full info banner. When that is highlighted, it shows what is playing and recording on the DVR's other tuners. If you'd rather watch one of those shows, you can easily select it to get to your other tuners.


----------



## rainwater

Kivo said:


> I surprised no one has mentioned this change, but the pause ads are now gone!


Pause ads always disappear after an update. Never fear, they will surely come back after your Tivo makes a few connections.


----------



## megazone

rahnbo said:


> Yes that's what I mean. I thought hitting Guide or Clear just brought up a different mini-guide. Or do you mean to hit it twice?


When it goes back to the video the mini-channel bar pops up very briefly but that vanishes on its own. It looks like the behavior is that whenever you go to full screen video, no matter how you got there, you get that channel bar with the current channel and/or program info for a second. I think that's fine, others apparently don't like it.


----------



## andyf

megazone said:


> It looks like the behavior is that whenever you go to full screen video, no matter how you got there, you get that channel bar with the current channel and/or program info for a second.


Well, not exactly. If you clear mini-guide nothing pops up.


----------



## TheWGP

Awesome list! Thanks for posting!


----------



## jkudlacz

EldRick said:


> I believe that the "New" mentioned in 3.1.7 was there in 14.9.2 - I noticed it there yesterday.
> 
> If correct, that's huge! I'm Very tired of having to dismiss the obnoxious exhortations to watch "Morning Joe". These annoying forced interstitials alone are enough to keep me from ever taking a look at the show.


It is possible that ads are not being served until new UI is fully deployed to all units.
My company sometimes doesn't' serve ads on certain browsers or code base until it fully out in PROD.


----------



## cherry ghost

andyf said:


> Well, not exactly. If you clear mini-guide nothing pops up.


It also doesn't come up after clearing info or just letting it go away on it's own. mini-guide will also go away on it's own without clearing


----------



## innocentfreak

TiVoMarget just tweeted that MRS was turned on for those with 20.2. You need to force a connection to enable.


----------



## danjw1

@tivodesign: "We've turned on Multi-Room Streaming for Premieres running 20.2 as of this morning. (Connect to the TiVo Service now to enable.)"


----------



## aaronwt

innocentfreak said:


> TiVoMarget just tweeted that MRS was turned on for those with 20.2. You need to force a connection to enable.


Thanks!


----------



## i2k

VERY nice surprise to see this update. Keep up the good work  So far so good on my Premiere XL


----------



## compnurd

Yep Working great!


----------



## CoxInPHX

> 3.1.14 There is a new "mini guide" that will appear when you press "select" while watching a program. *It displays the current channel* and the next two channels over a two hour period.


This behavior is not consistent when pressing Select during a recording playback.


----------



## sbiller

Easier navigation to Episodes - New Episode guide shows only episodes available in broadband or broadcast TV by default making access to shows more clear and even easier. You can use an option button on the remote to change the filter to show all episodes, available or not, or only free episodes (Episodes not requiring a per episode purchase).

Easier navigation to Episodes - New Episode guide shows only *episodes available in broadband* or broadcast TV by default making access to shows more clear and even easier. You can use an option button on the remote to change the filter to show all episodes, available or not, or only free episodes (Episodes not requiring a per episode purchase).










Here is a suggestion on the Discovery Bar of different broadband content. In this case Hak5.


----------



## crxssi

TheWGP said:


> Awesome list! Thanks for posting!


I am glad you like it.

According to another thread, it has too much "opinion" in it, things should not be listed as positive or negative, and that I should take a back seat.

I am trying REALLY hard to get over that and carry on.

I would be interested if people think "positive" and "negative" is meaningful for categorizing or helpful when they are reading the list (knowing that some might be debatable or neither positive nor negative... just different). Perhaps just "changes" and "bugs"?

I am a bit behind updating it, and will likely not attempt to tonight since I am just too worn out from work, and medical stuff, and then dealing with "that other thread". Sorry


----------



## sbiller

crxssi said:


> I am glad you like it.
> 
> According to another thread, it has too much "opinion" in it, things should not be listed as positive or negative, and that I should take a back seat.
> 
> I am trying REALLY hard to get over that and carry on.
> 
> I would be interested if people think "positive" and "negative" is meaningful for categorizing or helpful when they are reading the list (knowing that some might be debatable or neither positive nor negative... just different). Perhaps just "changes" and "bugs"?
> 
> I am a bit behind updating it, and will likely not attempt to tonight since I am just too worn out from work, and medical stuff, and then dealing with "that other thread". Sorry


I really appreciate you putting together this list!

I think categorizing as positive or negative could be changed to a different categorization since some of the things you list as negative may not be considered negative by some and vice versa.

Maybe a way to handle this would be to categorize as:

*New Features*

*Dropped Features*

*Fixed Issues*

*Known Issues / Defects*

Thanks again!
~Sam


----------



## brentil

Probably to be more PC since this is a change log thread to just replace positive with Fixes and negative with Bugs. Then people feel more like they're pointing out issues needing to be fixed and not opinions for or against TiVo.

It's all a game of semantics to be PC... It means the same thing by definition, but it removes any emotional attachment how it's been presented.


----------



## L David Matheny

crxssi said:


> According to another thread, it has too much "opinion" in it, things should not be listed as positive or negative, and that I should take a back seat.
> 
> I am trying REALLY hard to get over that and carry on.
> 
> I would be interested if people think "positive" and "negative" is meaningful for categorizing or helpful when they are reading the list (knowing that some might be debatable or neither positive nor negative... just different). Perhaps just "changes" and "bugs"?


Please do carry on with this. And there's nothing wrong with characterizing changes as positive or negative (or neutral in some cases). Anybody who doesn't have opinions just isn't paying enough attention.

The only quibble I agree with is that the term "bug" is sometimes overused (although not necessarily by you). Strictly speaking, a program bug is an unanticipated action or side effect. If TiVo intentionally does something everybody hates, that's a bad ergonomic choice, but it's not really a bug. OTOH, I guess if a change seems completely goofy, it's not unreasonable to speculate that it must surely have been unintentional.


----------



## EldRick

A Bug is when it doesn't do what it is supposed to do, i.e. freezes requiring power-cycling to get back to functioning.

An Issue is when it doesn't do what You think it should do, which is an entirely different kettle of fish. For example, taking away Native format support is an issue, but the way the new code works has a couple of bugs.

I keep reading about a lot of issues here, but rather few bugs...


----------



## sbiller

Per Margret, the White Plus icon is for:



> A show/movie that is available from a source or channel you have unchecked. So, it may be available on TV, but only on a channel you don't have checked (in the Channel List), or it may be available from a video provider you have unchecked (in the Video Provider List).
> 
> We wanted you to know there is *some* way to get the show/movie, but we didn't want to put a logo in front of you for a provider you said you didn't want.


Very cool!


----------



## aaronwt

MRS seems to be working very well. I haven't tried it's limits yet though(Before when it was activated if I tried a ninth read/write stream on Elite- seven on non Elite(including recordings, downloads, and local viewing) with the hard drive it would reboot)

But I did have on my XL two recordings, two streams going out to other premieres and one stream coming into my XL working with no issues. It was just like watching the content locally.
Although it is still jarring going from the normal HD screen with the preview screen in the corner to the Now playing list of the other box with no preview screen.

If I get a chance tonight I'll try seven streams on my XL and nine streams on my Elite to see if it still reboots like before. Hopefully it should only allow what it can handle to prevent a reboot. It depends on what I have set to record tonight.


----------



## lessd

danjw1 said:


> @tivodesign: "We've turned on Multi-Room Streaming for Premieres running 20.2 as of this morning. (Connect to the TiVo Service now to enable.)"


My four TPs were updated as of last night, I have made two call home connections one last night and one this morning, still no MRS. Does MRS take a few days after the update to take hold ?

OK I got my answer, it will take some time for new people who just got the V20.2 update to get MRS turned on.


----------



## andyf

MRS was only turned on for TiVos that were updated on the first round. Margret is seeing if she can get the rest of the systems turned on later this week, if not then Monday.


----------



## sbiller

I was playing around with MRS trying to turn my 2-tuner Premiere into a 6-tuner by leveraging the extra tuners of my remote Elite when I encountered a problem. One of the channels (#1221) was blank when I started up the remote stream via the play button. When I went over to the source Elite I was getting an error. The youtube video below documents the problem. Its interesting that when I stop the recording the channel immediately tunes.


----------



## TerpBE

joejet said:


> I noticed a bug last night. Had two programs recording and while in the guide i could not change channels... meaning, normally you can pick a program in the guide and Tivo will warn you that you have to cancel a recording.. it did it once, i didnt allow it to change, but then later on tried another show and "select" did nothing.. did not bring up the warning nor change to the channel i wanted.
> 
> I had to go to my shows.. cancel the recording manually, then i was able to change the channel.


I had the same thing happen the other day. Both tuners were recording, and it wouldn't let me change the channel either by typing in the number or selecting something from the guide. I had to manually stop one of the recordings before I could choose another channel.

I wasn't able to reproduce the problem again, though.


----------



## fhuband

I often like to do a 3x ff to skim through boring parts of shows, with subtitles on so that I can get a better sense of what is happening. After 20.2. subtitles no longer show up in 3x ff.

Very disappointing. I could "watch" shows of marginal (but some) interest prior to 20.2 much faster.

I hope this can be fixed.

Frank


----------



## EldRick

Updated last night. There are many SD menu transitions where you get a very brief visible flash of squashed menu before the destination menu appears, almost as if it making a resolution change in between, and screwing it up. I didn't test this with HD menus, as they are still to slow for my taste.

It does feel faster and "smoother" in the SD menus as well as the HD, although the new 4-item Discovery bar is still a bit annoying to me.


----------



## lessd

andyf said:


> MRS was only turned on for TiVos that were updated on the first round. Margret is seeing if she can get the rest of the systems turned on later this week, if not then Monday.


Does anybody know if MRS will work if one is using the SDUI on the TPs ??


----------



## moyekj

lessd said:


> Does anybody know if MRS will work if one is using the SDUI on the TPs ??


 Yes. In fact even when using HDUI when you browse the remote (host) TiVo My Shows page it is still displayed using SDUI interface.


----------



## reneg

Concerning, 1.2.1 The Select-Play-Select-9-Play code for displaying the on-screen clock and play-time-remaining during replays is gone and there is no replacement. 

I can report that losing this feature has a high, negative S.A.F. (Spousal Acceptance Factor) for this new release. Having been Tivo customers since the series 1 days, both the spouse and I have grown accustomed to the clock display and miss it dearly. Hoping, the clock can be reenabled, correctly in a future update.


----------



## steve771

EldRick said:


> I believe that the "New" mentioned in 3.1.7 was there in 14.9.2 - I noticed it there yesterday.
> 
> If correct, that's huge! I'm Very tired of having to dismiss the obnoxious exhortations to watch "Morning Joe". These annoying forced interstitials alone are enough to keep me from ever taking a look at the show.


Agreed! Especially since us OTA users couldn't get 'Morning Joe' even if we wanted to.


----------



## xander777

reneg said:


> Concerning, 1.2.1 The Select-Play-Select-9-Play code for displaying the on-screen clock and play-time-remaining during replays is gone and there is no replacement.
> 
> I can report that losing this feature has a high, negative S.A.F. (Spousal Acceptance Factor) for this new release. Having been Tivo customers since the series 1 days, both the spouse and I have grown accustomed to the clock display and miss it dearly. Hoping, the clock can be reenabled, correctly in a future update.


It's still there. You have to press Select once and then you can do SPS9S.
Unfortunately, it shows up dead center in the screen.


----------



## xander777

Interesting acticle on what may be coming next: http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-01/from-ces-whats-next-for-tivo/


----------



## cherry ghost

crxssi said:


> 3.2.8 The select button brings up the info banner now which disrupts entering SPS codes. However, you can still enter SPS code while playing a Showcase video or while the Info banner is up.


The select button brings up the _mini guide_. Another way to enter SPS codes is to temporarily switch to the SDUI.


----------



## reneg

xander777 said:


> It's still there. You have to press Select once and then you can do SPS9S.
> Unfortunately, it shows up dead center in the screen.


I've seen the posts on how to enable SPS9S, but the clock placement being in the middle of the screen makes it unusable in my household.


----------



## moyekj

reneg said:


> I've seen the posts on how to enable SPS9S, but the clock placement being in the middle of the screen makes it unusable in my household.


 If you switch to SDUI then it is correctly displayed in lower right corner.


----------



## lessd

moyekj said:


> If you switch to SDUI then it is correctly displayed in lower right corner.


*Yes!, *but if you go back to the HDUI it (the clock) goes to the middle of the screen.


----------



## reneg

moyekj said:


> If you switch to SDUI then it is correctly displayed in lower right corner.


I probably should have provided a bit more background. My spouse is non-technical and has never been exposed to anything other than the SDUI on Tivo. I'm trying to make the jump to the HDUI, but the clock was the biggest issue my spouse raised with the HDUI. She's fine with the performance, she's fine with the discovery bar and mini guide, but now having the clock work the way it did is almost a HDUI showstopper for her.


----------



## steve771

Are the channel logos supposed to display on the guide?

What I see, for example: 3-1 KSNVDT

The callsign letters aren't really helpful at all, is there a way to get a network logo there instead? I ask because earlier it was mentioned the logos were newly updated, and I see them in the channel banner, but not on the guide.


----------



## crxssi

fhuband said:


> I often like to do a 3x ff to skim through boring parts of shows, with subtitles on so that I can get a better sense of what is happening. After 20.2. subtitles no longer show up in 3x ff.
> 
> Very disappointing. I could "watch" shows of marginal (but some) interest prior to 20.2 much faster.
> 
> I hope this can be fixed.
> 
> Frank


Really? Subtitles work while not in normal speed play??? I had no idea! Were you/are you in HDUI, SDUI, or does it apply to both?

Similar but different topic- One thing I have always wanted was what I can do with my DVD player. It has an adjustable "fast play" mode, where it will play faster and adjust the tone of the sound down, so you can watch programs where the plot is too slow, or things are just dragging. Would LOVE to see that on TiVo.


----------



## crxssi

cherry ghost said:


> The select button brings up the _mini guide_. Another way to enter SPS codes is to temporarily switch to the SDUI.


Fixed, thanks


----------



## crxssi

CoxInPHX said:


> This behavior is not consistent when pressing Select during a recording playback.


I have yet to figure out why the mini-guide would appear when pressing select during a recording playback. Seems a bit odd. I am torn as to if this is a good thing or a bad thing, especially since if you press select again, thinking you are going to exit the guide, you don't- you get taken immediately to the program under the cursor (which is, actually, quite logical).

I will clarify the entry, though.


----------



## Philmatic

From http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/10/2...-streaming-dvr-content-to-ipad-with-prototype

1. TiVo says it's been using Adobe Air instead of (now-deprecated) Flash, and it's still working to improve performance and caching across the system with every new update.
2. TiVo also says it just hired a new engineer to lead up a larger API effort to expand the number of apps on its platform, including more interactive apps that let you directly engage with what you're watching

NICE!


----------



## windracer

My sister's Premiere has the problem in My Shows when Groups are on sometimes recordings disappear (like this guy reported here). Anyone know if this is fixed in 20.2? It drives her nuts but I've never seen the problem on my on box.


----------



## aaronwt

My XL had no problem reading/writing seven concurrent HD streams, unlike last year when streaming was accidentally enabled and it would reboot.(Recording 2, streaming 3 to other Premieres, 1 Amazon download, and 1 previously recorded show.)

I wish i still had my other Premieres to see how many streams to other Premieres it could do.


----------



## astrohip

fhuband said:


> I often like to do a 3x ff to skim through boring parts of shows, with subtitles on so that I can get a better sense of what is happening. After 20.2. subtitles no longer show up in 3x ff.
> 
> Very disappointing. I could "watch" shows of marginal (but some) interest prior to 20.2 much faster.
> 
> I hope this can be fixed.
> 
> Frank


[couple of nits: I think you mean CAPTIONS, not subtitles. And it's usually referred to as 1XFF, meaning it's the first of the three FF. 3X usually refers to the fastest FF. And yes, I know that 1XFF is about 3x the speed.]

This would be a HUGE backward shift for me. I watch 100% captions (I'm deaf) anyway. And I often will watch at 1XFF thru news shows and whatnot, using captions to keep up with what's being reported. If this is true, giant GIANT step backwards.

Unfortunately, I have been away for a week, and have missed the 20.2 rollout. No way to tell if I got it, or to validate any of these things I've been reading about for several days. I'm just hoping (if my Elite rec'd it) that it went with no trouble--no lockups, etc. I've got days & days of recordings set while I'm away.


----------



## fhuband

Thanks for the nit corrections.

The lack of captions at the first ff speed exists for both hd and sd displays.

Another problem is that the listing for the size in Gb for individual programs is totally wrong (in general it lists 0.0) for sd display, but is correct for hd display.

Frank


----------



## crxssi

fhuband said:


> The lack of captions at the first ff speed exists for both hd and sd displays.


Added



> Another problem is that the listing for the size in Gb for individual programs is totally wrong (in general it lists 0.0) for sd display, but is correct for hd display.


That is a carryover from 14.9. Re-added.


----------



## EldRick

Somewhat lame workaround for 4.3 is to disable 720p in the Video settings. This means that you can watch 480i either at 480 with aspect ratio choices, or upscale it to 1080.


----------



## Dan203

I just noticed that Search By Title in the SDUI works differently then before. Before if you searched it would always show the next upcoming showing for every channel. Now it shows one listing for every program and when you click on it it's the same as selecting View Upcoming with a list of all upcoming showings. I like it! :up:

Edit: Actually, playing with it more, it actually works more like the search in the HDUI. It finds shows with any reference to the word you're typing, not just an alphabetical list. :up: :up:

I also really like the new consistent background between menus. It's cleaner and less jarring from one to the next.

Dan


----------



## morac

EldRick said:


> Somewhat lame workaround for 4.3 is to disable 720p in the Video settings. This means that you can watch 480i either at 480 with aspect ratio choices, or upscale it to 1080.


Can't you just use the up arrow to change resolutions? If you switch to 480, you should be able to change the aspect without having to deselect 720p.


----------



## crxssi

Dan203 said:


> I just noticed that Search By Title in the SDUI works differently then before. Before if you searched it would always show the next upcoming showing for every channel. Now it shows one listing for every program and when you click on it it's the same as selecting View Upcoming with a list of all upcoming showings. I like it! :up:
> 
> Edit: Actually, playing with it more, it actually works more like the search in the HDUI. It finds shows with any reference to the word you're typing, not just an alphabetical list. :up: :up:


I am fairly sure that change occurred in 14.9, not in 20.2. Can anyone else please confirm this, please?


----------



## n8jones

Hi, thanks for maintaining the 20.2 changelog message thread! One minor comment, below.

Item 3.2.2 should be moved into the SDUI Negative section, since Kid Zone isn't available in the HDUI.

"3.2.2 The KidZone dialog bug for the "Please Wait" dialog when selecting KidZone is still present. The dialog displays almost completely off the screen. This bug was introduced in 14.9."


----------



## EldRick

> Can't you just use the up arrow to change resolutions? If you switch to 480, you should be able to change the aspect without having to deselect 720p.


That's the bug - you get to change the aspect ratio every time you switch channels, and the setting then carries over to the Tivo menu. the menu in 480i is not a thing of beauty...


----------



## innocentfreak

TiVodesign just tweeted that Hulu results are now integrated into search for those of us with the latest update.


----------



## [email protected]

After modifying the "Season Pass Manager" priorities a message appears saying "Updating the ToDo List" -- a task still not done in the background and which may take several minutes


Not positive this is new:
When modifying the season pass recording options in the HDUI through search-> get this program..., the "A" button shortcuts to "Record Season Pass with these options"


----------



## innocentfreak

[email protected] said:


> After modifying the "Season Pass Manager" priorities a message appears saying "Updating the ToDo List" -- a task still not done in the background and which may take several minutes


This is why I use KMTTG to modify my season pass priorities. Not only is it easier, but it also does it in the background like the iPad App.

I wonder if the HDUI version will change this.


----------



## Dan203

crxssi said:


> I am fairly sure that change occurred in 14.9, not in 20.2. Can anyone else please confirm this, please?


Maybe. I only have one Premiere and several S3 units, so I don't search that much on the Premiere.

Either way it's a welcome improvement over what I'm use to on the S3 units.

One thing I verified is NOT fixed is the audio bug with SD recordings and the trick play sounds that was introduced in 14.8. If you're playing an SD recording and hit FF 3 times you hear the first Bee Doop but not the second or 3rd. Most people probably don't even notice this one though since HD recordings don't play the trick play sounds at all due to the AC3 audio.

Dan


----------



## EldRick

Re. 2.2, I'm no longer seeing this artifact - it may have been related to post-SW-upgrade tasks contending with user activity.


----------



## aaronwt

Dan203 said:


> Maybe. I only have one Premiere and several S3 units, so I don't search that much on the Premiere.
> 
> Either way it's a welcome improvement over what I'm use to on the S3 units.
> 
> One thing I verified is NOT fixed is the audio bug with SD recordings and the trick play sounds that was introduced in 14.8. If you're playing an SD recording and hit FF 3 times you hear the first Bee Doop but not the second or 3rd. Most people probably don't even notice this one though since HD recordings don't play the trick play sounds at all due to the AC3 audio.
> 
> Dan


And some of us have DD on all SD channels too like here on FiOS. So we never here those.


----------



## cherry ghost

Here's something I didn't know and it may not be new.

In menus that offer the viewing window, you can toggle it on/off with the SLOW button. This can't be done when the guide is up.


----------



## jrtroo

sorry- not new. I have used that since I got my Premiere well over a year ago. I don't think this does anything when in the new guide, however.


----------



## jkudlacz

morac said:


> Can't you just use the up arrow to change resolutions? If you switch to 480, you should be able to change the aspect without having to deselect 720p.


I can make those changes on my TV. Just hitting up button and going through different resolutions until I hit 1080i.


----------



## gteague

things i've observed so far:

setting the clock (sps9s) results in it being displayed center in the hd menus. this was causing very bad screen drawing, re-drawing, and data population problems on my box. toggling off the clock solved the problem completely.

the hd menus are very much more responsive and fast enough that i could for the very first time bear to use them on a daily basis. except ... there are way too many jarring re-draw changes when you transition from one mode or screen to another. i don't see how audio and video dropouts and resolution changes can be acceptable in any situation whatsoever although, given a trade-off between speed and an assault on my eyes, i'd have to give the edge to the speed as they were completely unusable before this os release and now they merely induce headache if i spend more than 15 minutes in the menus.

and a question on function: with the tivo live guide up--channels on the left and times/shows on the right--i see a future recording with two check marks in the right frame that i want to cancel. before i would just select it and hit the 'clear' button. now here's what i have to do:

select show by hitting the select button
cursor down to 'season pass & other options'
<endure a jarring, 3 second transition to another screen>
cursor over and down to 'modify next recording'
cursor over and select 'cancel next recording'
confirm that i do indeed want to cancel the recording
<endure another jarring video transition going back to guide>

now i realize i can get out of the guide completely and go into the todo list where my 'clear' command works as it used to. but the procedure above completely removes most of the benefit of having upcoming recordings flagged in the guide and you just cannot imagine how bitterly i've complained about this being missing over the last 6 years. sure hope i'm missing a quicker way here.

/guy


----------



## crxssi

EldRick said:


> Re. 2.2, I'm no longer seeing this artifact - it may have been related to post-SW-upgrade tasks contending with user activity.


Removed, since it was never verified either.


----------



## crxssi

[email protected] said:


> Not positive this is new:
> When modifying the season pass recording options in the HDUI through search-> get this program..., the "A" button shortcuts to "Record Season Pass with these options"


I don't want to sound dense, but I am not sure I understand your description....


----------



## crxssi

gteague said:


> things i've observed so far:
> 
> setting the clock (sps9s) results in it being displayed center in the sd menus. this was causing very bad screen drawing, re-drawing, and data population problems on my box. toggling off the clock solved the problem completely.


Note added to existing entry.



> the sd menus are very much more responsive and fast enough that i could for the very first time bear to use them on a daily basis. [...]


Did you mean HDUI or SDUI? I don't see any difference in the SDUI performance. And it has always been fast enought for regular use...



> and a question on function: with the tivo live guide up--channels on the left and times/shows on the right--i see a future recording with two check marks in the right frame that i want to cancel. before i would just select it and hit the 'clear' button. now here's what i have to do:


Interesting find. Can someone verify this HDUI behavior change? For now I will just add it.


----------



## Arcady

I never had any idea so many people wanted a stupid clock on their screen. I don't even want a NBC or CBS logo or whatever on my screen. Why would you want more crap on the screen than they already force down your throat? I have a $4 clock sitting next to the TiVo.


----------



## crxssi

Arcady said:


> I never had any idea so many people wanted a stupid clock on their screen. I don't even want a NBC or CBS logo or whatever on my screen. Why would you want more crap on the screen than they already force down your throat? I have a $4 clock sitting next to the TiVo.


LOL!
I have to admit, I am perplexed by the demand also. I *hate* anything on my screen while trying to watch TV, just like you. Besides, I have a wall clock just a few feet away. But, to each, his own!


----------



## gteague

for me, it's not so much the clock as the time-counter which tells you where you are in the show. i know you can simply hit 'play' to bring up the bottom status bar but most of my tv is a background activity and i like it to be as hands-off as possible.

right at the moment i'm testing out the hd menus and have had to remove the clock and i keep looking up at 'hell on wheels' recording playing wondering how far from the end it is. perhaps if it were a better show i wouldn't look so often! [g]

/guy


----------



## CoxInPHX

Here is an odd behavior, is anyone else seeing this:

In both the Live Guide and Grid Guide and Mini-Guide, The Current Days listings DO NOT have any NEW tags. I noticed this yesterday and today it is still doing it.

But if I move to tomorrow or a future date in the Guide the NEW tags are shown.


----------



## TiVoMargret

We removed two items from "Browse TV & Movies" -- but it doesn't look like anyone noticed! (I guess we made the right call?)

--Margret


----------



## cherry ghost

gteague said:


> and a question on function: with the tivo live guide up--channels on the left and times/shows on the right--i see a future recording with two check marks in the right frame that i want to cancel. before i would just select it and hit the 'clear' button. now here's what i have to do:
> 
> select show by hitting the select button
> cursor down to 'season pass & other options'
> <endure a jarring, 3 second transition to another screen>
> cursor over and down to 'modify next recording'
> cursor over and select 'cancel next recording'
> confirm that i do indeed want to cancel the recording
> <endure another jarring video transition going back to guide>
> 
> now i realize i can get out of the guide completely and go into the todo list where my 'clear' command works as it used to. but the procedure above completely removes most of the benefit of having upcoming recordings flagged in the guide and you just cannot imagine how bitterly i've complained about this being missing over the last 6 years. sure hope i'm missing a quicker way here.
> 
> /guy





crxssi said:


> Interesting find. Can someone verify this HDUI behavior change? For now I will just add it.


I can verify it with a couple of twists.

If the season pass recording is the next episode set to air, regardless of channel, it's as he states.

If there are are other episodes airing before it, reruns on a different channel, "Modify next recording" isn't there at all. Instead, you get "Record next episode". There is no way to cancel the recording without going to the To Do List. There is, however, a new option(to me at least) under "Season Pass options" to "Get another Season Pass". This lets you set up a Season Pass for the show on a different channel than the one you already have it on.

If someone wants to test the above, pick a show you have a Season Pass for but isn't yet in reruns and then a show you have a Season Pass for but know is also airing in reruns on a different channel prior to the recording you're selecting. My choices were "Parks and Recreation" and "30 Rock"


----------



## bbrown9

TiVoMargret said:


> We removed two items from "Browse TV & Movies" -- but it doesn't look like anyone noticed! (I guess we made the right call?)
> 
> --Margret


I wouldn't notice if the whole feature was removed. I never used it. If I'm looking for something to watch, I look at my shows and the guide. If I find nothing there, I look at hulu. If I'm looking for something in particular, use search. If I find nothing there I read my kindle.  (I would check amazon, but amazon prime isn't supported, so...)


----------



## gteague

gteague said:


> the sd menus are very much more responsive and fast enough that i could for the very first time bear to use them on a daily basis.





crxssi said:


> Did you mean HDUI or SDUI? I don't see any difference in the SDUI performance. And it has always been fast enought for regular use...


very sorry. of course i meant hd instead of sd here.

/guy


----------



## gteague

bbrown9 said:


> I wouldn't notice if the whole feature was removed. I never used it. If I'm looking for something to watch, I look at my shows and the guide.


+1 same here.

/guy


----------



## CoxInPHX

20.2 apparently does not prompt you when the Tuning Adapter goes Offline. You have to look at the Diagnostic to see that the TA is Disconnected. (My TA is hidden behind the AV cabinet so I cannot see the light)

I have had a few TA issues since 20.2 (none before)


----------



## innocentfreak

bbrown9 said:


> I wouldn't notice if the whole feature was removed. I never used it. If I'm looking for something to watch, I look at my shows and the guide. If I find nothing there, I look at hulu. If I'm looking for something in particular, use search. If I find nothing there I read my kindle.  (I would check amazon, but amazon prime isn't supported, so...)


Hmm I am now curious though and will have to glance at it tonight. I am the same way though. With so much recorded content at hand, I can't keep up as it is so I rarely go into that section.


----------



## P42

crxssi said:


> 1.1.4 Supposedly, the *OTA tuners* appear to be able to lock onto more channels than previously. When scanning OTA for channels, it will find more stations.


Can anyone add more detail to this update? Does it mean that weak signal channels that were previously not locked in, will now be locked in - however, if the signal is weak won't it be pixelated? And therefore what is the point. :down:
Or are they also doing a better job with these weak signals, and making them watchable? :up::up:

Single Tivo, OTA, SDUI user.


----------



## TrueEddie

TiVoMargret said:


> We removed two items from "Browse TV & Movies" -- but it doesn't look like anyone noticed! (I guess we made the right call?)
> 
> --Margret


I'd say so. Only time I go there is when TiVo does those Fall TV collections, so I can see what's new.


----------



## lessd

A bug on MRV just came to light as I just got MRS last night, when watching a program from another TP using MRS at the end of the program you get the menu option *delete* or* keep the program*, if you select the *delete*, the TP will say you have deleted the program but it not true as the program is still on the other TP. You can delete it at that point by hitting the clear button or select the program and the menu gives you the delete option. You get the same option when watching a program on your TP itself (not using the MRS) that menu item at the end works as before.


----------



## shamilian

TiVoMargret said:


> We removed two items from "Browse TV & Movies" -- but it doesn't look like anyone noticed! (I guess we made the right call?)
> 
> --Margret


I used the favorites selection because the number of categories seemed large and required scrolling...
But I can live without it, it isn't a major issue....

John.


----------



## Innerloop

CoxInPHX said:


> Here is an odd behavior, is anyone else seeing this:
> 
> In both the Live Guide and Grid Guide and Mini-Guide, The Current Days listings DO NOT have any NEW tags. I noticed this yesterday and today it is still doing it.
> 
> But if I move to tomorrow or a future date in the Guide the NEW tags are shown.


I noticed this as well, last night's Prime Time had no "NEW" tags in the Guide. I was beginning to think I had imagined that feature. But when I went ahead to tonight's prime time, they seemed all to be marked. Very strange.

There are things only a few hours out from today that are marked NEW still, so I'm not sure if its just a random quirk that occurred for guide data on Wednesday, or some type of sliding window where they disappear. We'll find out soon enough.

I assume NEW tagging is the responsibility of the content provider and guide listing provider, not Tivo. So its possible they just messed up, as often happens with guide data.


----------



## ufo4sale

Why were the filters removed from the live TV guide? I use them all the time during sporting events and movies. Is there a way that TiVo could consider brining them back.


----------



## andyf

In the guide all shows marked NEW show their first aired date as the day before.

Edit: Actually it seems all shows first aired dates are 1 day behind actual.


----------



## cherry ghost

lessd said:


> A bug on MRV just came to light as I just got MRS last night, when watching a program from another TP using MRS at the end of the program you get the menu option *delete* or* keep the program*, if you select the *delete*, the TP will say you have deleted the program but it not true as the program is still on the other TP. You can delete it at that point by hitting the clear button or select the program and the menu gives you the delete option. You get the same option when watching a program on your TP itself (not using the MRS) that menu item at the end works as before.


Did you get the delete option by letting the program play all the way to the end or by hitting the TiVo button? When I let it play all the way to the end, the show is deleted. When I hit the TiVo button, it is not.


----------



## crxssi

andyf said:


> In the guide all shows marked NEW show their first aired date as the day before.
> 
> Edit: Actually it seems all shows first aired dates are 1 day behind actual.


Confirmed- and added.


----------



## crxssi

ufo4sale said:


> Why were the filters removed from the live TV guide? I use them all the time during sporting events and movies. Is there a way that TiVo could consider brining them back.


That is a pretty big change. Added.


----------



## crxssi

CoxInPHX said:


> Here is an odd behavior, is anyone else seeing this:
> 
> In both the Live Guide and Grid Guide and Mini-Guide, The Current Days listings DO NOT have any NEW tags. I noticed this yesterday and today it is still doing it.
> 
> But if I move to tomorrow or a future date in the Guide the NEW tags are shown.


My 20.2 TiVo does not display that behavior at all. I am looking at a "New" on a program for today on my screen.... right now; switch to grid- same thing.


----------



## crxssi

CoxInPHX said:


> 20.2 apparently does not prompt you when the Tuning Adapter goes Offline. You have to look at the Diagnostic to see that the TA is Disconnected. (My TA is hidden behind the AV cabinet so I cannot see the light)
> 
> I have had a few TA issues since 20.2 (none before)


When I am watching "live" TV in the HDUI and unplug the TA from the USB port, the screen goes blank and several seconds later, I get the no tuning adapter message on the screen.


----------



## crxssi

TiVoMargret said:


> We removed two items from "Browse TV & Movies" -- but it doesn't look like anyone noticed! (I guess we made the right call?)


Ah! You are teasing us 
I have never used "Browse TV & Movies", so I would not notice if anything changed. Based on the other postings, it looks like I am not alone.

Hopefully someone will figure it out, or you will disclose it to us at some point!


----------



## slice1900

astrohip said:


> [couple of nits: I think you mean CAPTIONS, not subtitles. And it's usually referred to as 1XFF, meaning it's the first of the three FF. 3X usually refers to the fastest FF. And yes, I know that 1XFF is about 3x the speed.]
> 
> This would be a HUGE backward shift for me. I watch 100% captions (I'm deaf) anyway. And I often will watch at 1XFF thru news shows and whatnot, using captions to keep up with what's being reported. If this is true, giant GIANT step backwards.
> Unfortunately, I have been away for a week, and have missed the 20.2 rollout. No way to tell if I got it, or to validate any of these things I've been reading about for several days. I'm just hoping (if my Elite rec'd it) that it went with no trouble--no lockups, etc. I've got days & days of recordings set while I'm away.


Ditto! This is why Tivo's not having a changelog is such a problem. Was this an oversight that will be quickly fixed? Or deliberate and will remain this way forever?

If there was a setting available on my TiVo that could refuse this software update I would set it, if it will be this way forever I'll strongly consider selling my TiVo and using the substandard DVR my cable company offers. That's how big of a deal this is for me!!


----------



## CoxInPHX

crxssi said:


> My 20.2 TiVo does not display that behavior at all. I am looking at a "New" on a program for today on my screen.... right now; switch to grid- same thing.


I am still having this issue. "New" tags were shown for tonight's Primetime, until I swapped back and forth between the Grid and Live Guide, Now the New tags are gone again for tonight on both guides.

I also confirm the First Aired Date is one day behind.

*Last Night vs Tonight*


----------



## crxssi

CoxInPHX said:


> I am still having this issue. "New" tags were shown for tonight's Primetime, until I swapped back and forth between the Grid and Live Guide, Now the New tags are gone again for tonight on both guides.


I will add it in the description.


----------



## nrc

crxssi said:


> Ah! You are teasing us
> I have never used "Browse TV & Movies", so I would not notice if anything changed. Based on the other postings, it looks like I am not alone.
> 
> Hopefully someone will figure it out, or you will disclose it to us at some point!


I assume this is the old version, although I think this image is from just after the Premiere launch.










The fact that people don't use this to browse for Netflix is about 75% percent of the cause for complaints about the Netflix app. If it were easier or more obvious how to filter providers it might help.


----------



## crxssi

nrc said:


> I assume this is the old version, although I think this image is from just after the Premiere launch.


Well, that made it easy to see  "Top picks" and "My Favorites" were removed.


----------



## bbrown9

TrueEddie said:


> I'd say so. Only time I go there is when TiVo does those Fall TV collections, so I can see what's new.


Oh, now that might be a reason to go into that section. I got curious and looked into it and did find mid-season premieres listed in there. That's a nice feature that I'll have to remember.


----------



## moyekj

crxssi said:


> Updated to version 15.
> Remember to check the first posting to see the most current version: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8891071#post8891071
> 
> Your feedback is important! Please report errors or things that are missing. Note that sometimes there is a delay before things are added/removed as I attempt to clarify or verify.


Second issue described here in this thread (issue with Recording History showing bogus will not records for repeat manual recordings) I don't see in your list:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8891130#post8891130

I'm not the only one having a problem with it, see:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=481547


----------



## crxssi

moyekj said:


> Second issue described here in this thread (issue with Recording History showing bogus will not records for repeat manual recordings) I don't see in your list:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8891130#post8891130
> 
> I'm not the only one having a problem with it, see:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=481547


Added. Was one that I was waiting to see if verification would appear, since I can't easily replicate.


----------



## lessd

cherry ghost said:


> Did you get the delete option by letting the program play all the way to the end or by hitting the TiVo button? When I let it play all the way to the end, the show is deleted. When I hit the TiVo button, it is not.


I used the TiVo button within the last 5 minutes, it still should delete the remote program if the menu said delete.


----------



## cherry ghost

crxssi said:


> 3.2.1.6 It is no longer possible to highlight an entry and press clear to cancel the recording as was possible in the previous version of the guide. Now you have to select the entry and go through other menus outside of the guide.


I don't think it was ever possible to highlight an entry in the Guide and press clear to cancel a recording. Pressing clear anywhere in the Guide just gets rid of the Guide. You've always had to select the entry and go through other menus outside of the Guide. The difference now is that either there are more steps to go through outside the Guide to cancel or the option to cancel is not there and you are forced to go into the To Do List to cancel.


----------



## crxssi

cherry ghost said:


> I don't think it was ever possible to highlight an entry in the Guide and press clear to cancel a recording. Pressing clear anywhere in the Guide just gets rid of the Guide. You've always had to select the entry and go through other menus outside of the Guide. The difference now is that either there are more steps to go through outside the Guide to cancel or the option to cancel is not there and you are forced to go into the To Do List to cancel.


Eeeew. I was trusting this from some other posting. Can a second person confirm that this was never possible or exactly what changed, if anything???


----------



## cherry ghost

crxssi said:


> Eeeew. I was trusting this from some other posting. Can a second person confirm that this was never possible or exactly what changed, if anything???


Here's my original post in this thread about it

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8897875#post8897875


----------



## crxssi

cherry ghost said:


> Here's my original post in this thread about it
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8897875#post8897875


I reworded it, but it is about as clear as mud to me now  Alternative short wording is welcome...


----------



## rrr22777

How do I get this update. Mine is still on 14.9.1


----------



## TerpBE

If you type in a channel number with the guide up, it will stop after 4 digits (or however many yours is set to use). Previously it would "loop back" to the beginning of the channel number.

For example, let's say I want to go to channel 503 and I accidentally hit 5033. Previously I could just type "0503" and it would overwrite the channel, because the cursor skipped back to the beginning of the channel number. Now it just stops after 4 digits, so you're stuck going to 5033 before you can correct the mistake.


----------



## cherry ghost

crxssi said:


> I reworded it, but it is about as clear as mud to me now  Alternative short wording is welcome...


Not sure if this will help and the quality isn't that great






When I select "Parks and Recreation" ---> "Season Pass & other options", there is an option to "Modify next recording" ---> "Cancel next recording". This would cancel the recording I selected because it is the next recording. There are no other episode airing on any channels between now and then. When I select "30 Rock" ---> "Season Pass & other options", the option is now "Record next episode". This is because between now and the time of the recording I'm selecting, 30 Rock is airing in reruns on various channels. The only way to delete the 30 Rock recording is to go to "Upcoming" and scroll down until I get to the episode and delete from there. Because it's a week away, there are many episodes to scroll past before I come to the one I'm trying to delete.


----------



## jkudlacz

rrr22777 said:


> How do I get this update. Mine is still on 14.9.1


Most of us got it by emailing margret @ Tivo.com and providing TIVO UNIT number, you can find it at tivo.com when you log into your account.

But I am not sure if she is still accepting individual requests.

This update should be rolling out to customers over next few weeks.


----------



## ADG

rrr22777 said:


> How do I get this update. Mine is still on 14.9.1


Just wait. You'll have it shortly.


----------



## crxssi

TerpBE said:


> If you type in a channel number with the guide up, it will stop after 4 digits (or however many yours is set to use). Previously it would "loop back" to the beginning of the channel number.
> 
> For example, let's say I want to go to channel 503 and I accidentally hit 5033. Previously I could just type "0503" and it would overwrite the channel, because the cursor skipped back to the beginning of the channel number. Now it just stops after 4 digits, so you're stuck going to 5033 before you can correct the mistake.


This is apparently HDUI.

You said that was not the behavior before in the guide. But was it not the behavior before in live TV also? Because it doesn't wrap in live TV either...


----------



## dianebrat

I may have a new one I haven't seen anyone else comment on yet, since this is an action I regularly perform the response was not as expected.
SDUI
Watching a live show buffered with about 20 minutes delay, I pull up the guide, ask it to record a show in the guide, adjust the stop time and SP settings, when done it drops me to the guide at the END of the buffer, i.e. Live, having forgotten where I was in the buffer before setting up the recording.


----------



## ADG

The only complaints I have about the HDUI (and I realize they existed prior to this update, but I always used SDUI previously) are:

The inability to completely remove the Discovery Bar (aside from the fact it takes some time to load, I don't like jumping to the Bar when I'm scrolling to the top of the list in My Shows)

and

The inability to remove You Tube from My Shows.

It's my feeling that I not only paid for the hardware, but I'm paying for the service. As long as that's the case, I feel that I should have some control over what appears on the screen.


----------



## forum1

ADG said:


> The only complaints I have about the HDUI (and I realize they existed prior to this update, but I always used SDUI previously) are:
> 
> The inability to completely remove the Discovery Bar (aside from the fact it takes some time to load, I don't like jumping to the Bar when I'm scrolling to the top of the list in My Shows)
> 
> and
> 
> The inability to remove You Tube from My Shows.
> 
> It's my feeling that I not only paid for the hardware, but I'm paying for the service. As long as that's the case, I feel that I should have some control over what appears on the screen.


+1

Although I do have other complaints about the HDUI, including some of the latest changes with 20.2, which I think have been captured by others in this thread.


----------



## andyf

In 20.2 you can remove YouTube from My Shows. There is a setting for YouTube in the Video Providers list. Uncheck it and it's gone.


----------



## forum1

andyf said:


> In 20.2 you can remove YouTube from My Shows. There is a setting for YouTube in the Video Providers list. Uncheck it and it's gone.


This is not new to 20.2 and doing this is really disabling these providers, which is not what I want to do. When you uncheck items on the My Video Providers list, they are removed as a search source and all menu references are removed, including entries on the Find TV, Movies, & Videos list where I would expect all enabled providers/sources to be listed. I simply want to remove the few duplicates that appear in My Shows, allowing me to maintain the My Shows exclusively for locally saved materials. By few duplicates I mean that only Hulu Plus, Netflix, and YouTube appear in My Shows while the complete list of providers adds Amazon Instant Video and BLOCKBUSTER. So the TiVo isnt even consistent in its duplication of video providers between Find TV, Movies, & Videos and My Shows. I reported this to TiVo a long time ago. On the scale of issues I consider it fairly minor, but it is a UI design element that makes me question the design sensibilities of the folks at TiVo. Aside from being just another screw up, I am wondering if there is a program where certain providers can pay TiVo to make their service more visible/prominent in the UI.


----------



## innocentfreak

According to a tweet from Margret, filters in the guide will come back, but no eta.

http://twitter.com/#!/tivodesign/status/158071012087443456

I did come across something odd in the SDUI. I was browsing suggestions on my one TiVo and some of the shows recommended were on channels I don't get. I then went into channels and removed the channels. Then when I went back into suggestions at the bottom of the list, it was freaking out. I don't know how to describe it really. On the last page the top three items kept blinking and moving like the list kept trying to rebuild itself. It was only on the last page though. Skip also wouldn't jump to the top.


----------



## AZrob

Maybe I am the only one who feels this way but:

I do not agree with categorizing the new coloring of the SDUI screens (all blue) as positive. What was once an interesting, colorful and useful set of screens has now been reduced to one boring set of blue screens. It's not only boring, but you don't know as readily what menu you are in. 

I am not saying we need the dancing Tivo guy back, or even the background animation. But please bring back the varying colors. Yes I know it "matches" HDUI screens now...but for those of us who still find the HDUI unacceptable (my wife prefers the larger font of SDUI for show titles and doesn't need any of the other bells and whistles) turning the SDUI into a "sea of blue" is NOT a positive change.

If others chime in and disagree with me, fine. But I think you jumped the gun on characterizing this particular change as positive.

BTW crxssi, I really appreciate you pulling together all of this info - well done!

Rob from AZ


----------



## PedjaR

AZrob said:


> Maybe I am the only one who feels this way but:
> 
> I do not agree with categorizing the new coloring of the SDUI screens (all blue) as positive. What was once an interesting, colorful and useful set of screens has now been reduced to one boring set of blue screens. It's not only boring, but you don't know as readily what menu you are in.
> 
> I am not saying we need the dancing Tivo guy back, or even the background animation. But please bring back the varying colors. Yes I know it "matches" HDUI screens now...but for those of us who still find the HDUI unacceptable (my wife prefers the larger font of SDUI for show titles and doesn't need any of the other bells and whistles) turning the SDUI into a "sea of blue" is NOT a positive change.
> 
> If others chime in and disagree with me, fine. But I think you jumped the gun on characterizing this particular change as positive.
> 
> BTW crxssi, I really appreciate you pulling together all of this info - well done!
> 
> Rob from AZ


One man's boring is another man's consistency. To me, colorful stuff looked too amateurish (almost childish), and jarring, it looks _much _better now.


----------



## andyf

PedjaR said:


> One man's boring is another man's consistency. To me, colorful stuff looked too amateurish (almost childish), and jarring, it looks _much _better now.


+1


----------



## crxssi

AZrob said:


> Maybe I am the only one who feels this way but:
> 
> I do not agree with categorizing the new coloring of the SDUI screens (all blue) as positive. What was once an interesting, colorful and useful set of screens has now been reduced to one boring set of blue screens. It's not only boring, but you don't know as readily what menu you are in.
> 
> I am not saying we need the dancing Tivo guy back, or even the background animation. But please bring back the varying colors. Yes I know it "matches" HDUI screens now...but for those of us who still find the HDUI unacceptable (my wife prefers the larger font of SDUI for show titles and doesn't need any of the other bells and whistles) turning the SDUI into a "sea of blue" is NOT a positive change.
> 
> If others chime in and disagree with me, fine. But I think you jumped the gun on characterizing this particular change as positive.


Yeah, it is not necessarily a positive thing- or it depends on your point of view. For an SDUI user, it is less positive than an HDUI user (since many of the menus are the same). Personally, I find it better even in the SDUI, since it is less distracting (since less things change, and of course, no more animation). At the moment, I don't have a "neutral" level, since it would be even more complex. I am curious, of course, what others think about it, too...



> BTW crxssi, I really appreciate you pulling together all of this info - well done!


Thanks


----------



## moyekj

I think I saw this mentioned in a thread somewhere. The ability to switch audio stream (SAP) via the info button now actually works! I think this is the first time owning a TiVo where I got this to work. For example I was watching an NBA game and was able to use the Info menu to select alternate audio track which was in Spanish in this case. I had tried same thing before with my Premieres and S3 OLED and never got it to work prior to 20.2 software.


----------



## xander777

Now that streaming is enabled between Premieres, is it possible to stream an Amazon video download to another Premiere or does the copy protection prohibit that?


----------



## moyekj

xander777 said:


> Now that streaming is enabled between Premieres, is it possible to stream an Amazon video download to another Premiere or does the copy protection prohibit that?


 I think for Amazon content MRS is still prohibited intentionally, but other copy-protected content such as protected recorded TV and/or pyTivo pushes is not.


----------



## xander777

That's a bummer. If I paid for the show, I should be able to watch part of it in one room and then continue watching it in another.


----------



## danjw1

xander777 said:


> That's a bummer. If I paid for the show, I should be able to watch part of it in one room and then continue watching it in another.


I think if you buy something from amazon, you are supposed to be able to play in on multiple devices. I may be wrong though.


----------



## steve614

danjw1 said:


> I think if you buy something from amazon, you are supposed to be able to play in on multiple devices.


Correct. The caveat being that you have to download your purchase to each device, individually.


----------



## aaronwt

danjw1 said:


> I think if you buy something from amazon, you are supposed to be able to play in on multiple devices. I may be wrong though.


Yes, you can download it to two TiVos(and other devices like PCs) and two portable unBox devices.. Any complaints about not being able to transfer it need to be sent to the content holders.

EDIT: I guess it depends on the content. Most of the content I have purchased can only be downloaded to two TiVos. But I do see some content in my Amazon digital library that shows it can be downloaded to as many as six devices.


----------



## xander777

So if I rent a movie using Amazon Instant Video on my premiere, how would I download that to my other premiere?


----------



## morac

steve614 said:


> Correct. The caveat being that you have to download your purchase to each device, individually.


Since all devices other than TiVo stream, downloading isn't an issue. Purchases and rentals can be streamed to an unlimited number of devices. Another reason (besides the missing free Prime videos) for TiVo to support streaming from Amazon.


----------



## danjw1

xander777 said:


> So if I rent a movie using Amazon Instant Video on my premiere, how would I download that to my other premiere?


You have to link it to your Amazon account. If you browse and select an Amazon Video from you Tivo, I believe it will take you through the initial setup. They do have some free content, but Amazon Prime isn't supported on Tivo, for now.


----------



## xander777

danjw1 said:


> You have to link it to your Amazon account. If you browse and select an Amazon Video from you Tivo, I believe it will take you through the initial setup. They do have some free content, but Amazon Prime isn't supported on Tivo, for now.


Found the answer on Amazon: Rental videos can only be watched in one location- either online or downloaded to one PC or TiVo box.


----------



## MC Hammer

crxssi said:


> 3.2.1.9 When entering channel numbers, they stop at 4 digits and do not wrap around as they did in the old guide. So there is no way to correct a typo, you have to wait for the incorrect channel or exist the guide.


You can press 'Clear' to delete the typo.


----------



## cherry ghost

Anyone notice how difficult is now to add time to a recording initiated from the Guide in the HDUI? You're forced to scroll through "Upcoming" to find the episode you've already selected from the Guide. 

Also, when did the numerical shortcuts in "TiVo Central" change when using HDUI? 1-4 still work, 5 is now "Browse TV & Movies", and 6-9 are gone. 8 used to bring up "Suggestions" and now I can't figure a way to get there without the shortcut. 6,7, and 9 at least still have way to navigate to without the shortcut. In the SDUI, all the shortcuts still work as they had in the past. This may have changed previously and I just didn't notice until now.


----------



## rainwater

cherry ghost said:


> Anyone notice how difficult is now to add time to a recording initiated from the Guide in the HDUI? You're forced to scroll through "Upcoming" to find the episode you've already selected from the Guide.


Hit select when on the guide and select season pass and other options. You get this same option when you initiate a recording too so you don't have to do it afterwards.


----------



## RoundTuit

crxssi, I experienced another case where my Premiere XL would not respond to remote commands even though the amber LED was indicating that IR commands were being received.

The first incident was reported in the "Premiere Froze" thread on 1/10/2012 via the following two posts:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8893987#post8893987
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8897474#post8897474​
Tonight's incident was slightly different, but similar results. I was watching a recorded program and had reached the end of the program. I do not recall if I was at the absolute end where the video had stopped and the overlay asking if I wanted to delete or keep was displayed, or I was just near the end. Whatever the case, I wanted to rewind the last scene and I hit RW three times (i.e., RW3). However, it was rewinding very slow (RW1 was indicated), so I continued to hit the rewind button. The amber LED would flash but it continured rewinding in RW1 mode. I kept trying different remote commands until I realized I may have a similar condition as before. At this point I tried Thumbs Down, Thumbs Up, Play, Play, Play a couple of times with no effect just to see if that would unfreeze it.

At this point I went looking for my iPad, and by the time I had found where my wife had left it, a couple of minutes had passed. The TiVo was still in RW1 mode. I was able to connect with the iPad app and was able to view My Shows. I tried sending commands using the iPad remote screen, e.g., pause, RW, play, etc. (multiple times!), but that had no effect. I went back to the My Shows list, selected the show that was being played, and selected Watch Now. At this point TiVo started playing the recording from the beginning. I am guessing it had been stuck at least 3-4 minutes. I should have taken note of the time on the progress bar, but I didn't.

So, we have at least two cases where this has occurred in the HDUI.


----------



## morac

cherry ghost said:


> Also, when did the numerical shortcuts in "TiVo Central" change when using HDUI? 1-4 still work, 5 is now "Browse TV & Movies", and 6-9 are gone. 8 used to bring up "Suggestions" and now I can't figure a way to get there without the shortcut. 6,7, and 9 at least still have way to navigate to without the shortcut. In the SDUI, all the shortcuts still work as they had in the past. This may have changed previously and I just didn't notice until now.


it's been that way since the Premiere was released. Suggestions are in "Browse TV & Internet", I forget which category it's under but it's there.


----------



## cherry ghost

rainwater said:


> Hit select when on the guide and select season pass and other options. You get this same option when you initiate a recording too so you don't have to do it afterwards.


That's what I'm doing, but if there are other airings of the show, nightly shows or reruns, you have to scroll through "Upcoming". For example, try selecting an airing of Letterman for next week in the Guide and adding time to it. Also, whether you select "Season pass & other options" or "Explore this show" you get taken to the same screen. Seems redundant.



morac said:


> it's been that way since the Premiere was released. Suggestions are in "Browse TV & Internet", I forget which category it's under but it's there.


I just switched to the HDUI with the latest update, so I hadn't noticed this. The shortcuts were very handy.


----------



## Innerloop

Not sure if this was intentional or accidental, but previously to toggle closed captions via the Banner display, it required more "down" clicks because the CC symbol was at or near the bottom of the icons available. Now I noticed its only 1 click from the starting point. So faster CC toggle on/off!


----------



## aaronwt

xander777 said:


> Found the answer on Amazon: Rental videos can only be watched in one location- either online or downloaded to one PC or TiVo box.


I watch mainly Tv shows from Amazon downloads and those I've seen can be from two to six devices. It's been a while since I've rented a movie from Amazon since I have better quality options available.

Although I'm using Amazon less for Tv now too since VUDU is getting more TV content.


----------



## moyekj

Innerloop said:


> Not sure if this was intentional or accidental, but previously to toggle closed captions via the Banner display, it required more "down" clicks because the CC symbol was at or near the bottom of the icons available. Now I noticed its only 1 click from the starting point. So faster CC toggle on/off!


 Yes agreed. It's much easier to toggle CC on/off with standard remote now.


----------



## jkudlacz

AZrob said:


> Maybe I am the only one who feels this way but:
> 
> I do not agree with categorizing the new coloring of the SDUI screens (all blue) as positive. What was once an interesting, colorful and useful set of screens has now been reduced to one boring set of blue screens. It's not only boring, but you don't know as readily what menu you are in.
> 
> I am not saying we need the dancing Tivo guy back, or even the background animation. But please bring back the varying colors. Yes I know it "matches" HDUI screens now...but for those of us who still find the HDUI unacceptable (my wife prefers the larger font of SDUI for show titles and doesn't need any of the other bells and whistles) turning the SDUI into a "sea of blue" is NOT a positive change.
> 
> If others chime in and disagree with me, fine. But I think you jumped the gun on characterizing this particular change as positive.
> 
> BTW crxssi, I really appreciate you pulling together all of this info - well done!
> 
> Rob from AZ


This is a matter of personal preference, it's not like the background is Yellow or Pink, I personally like it and don't mind it at all.


----------



## Innerloop

moyekj said:


> Yes agreed. It's much easier to toggle CC on/off with standard remote now.


Is there a shortcut with other remotes?


----------



## P42

I agree that the SDUI background is very bland, but the way the bulbs would light up and flash annoyed my. I was aware that there was different colors to different sections, but not enough to have consciously memorized them, if I ever got lost I just hit the home button.


----------



## moyekj

Innerloop said:


> Is there a shortcut with other remotes?


 Not sure if there is a "hard" remote to do it, but there are "software" remotes that use the telnet/crestron protocol to do it, such as:
tivoremote
or
kmttg remote control


----------



## crxssi

Innerloop said:


> Not sure if this was intentional or accidental, but previously to toggle closed captions via the Banner display, it required more "down" clicks because the CC symbol was at or near the bottom of the icons available. Now I noticed its only 1 click from the starting point. So faster CC toggle on/off!


It depends on which tuner you are on; it is the third icon down, so most of the time, it would take 2 downs to reach it, then select to change it. But I think it used to also ask you a question when you selected it which it now doesn't?


----------



## crxssi

Innerloop said:


> Is there a shortcut with other remotes?


The postings about CC on/off have nothing to do with the remote. They are saying access to it on the menu is now easier because it changed location. (which I added to 3.1.3- order of menus changed)


----------



## ADG

I don't recall that with the previous software I could watch a recorded show and bring up the info bar and see what is being recorded on the other channels, but now I can. Nice feature. And if it DID exist before I guess I missed it.


----------



## crxssi

ADG said:


> I don't recall that with the previous software I could watch a recorded show and bring up the info bar and see what is being recorded on the other channels, but now I can. Nice feature. And if it DID exist before I guess I missed it.


I am sure that has been there forever. You can even do that in the SDUI.


----------



## ADG

Okay - just noticed it though. Thanks.


----------



## bbrown9

Innerloop said:


> Not sure if this was intentional or accidental, but previously to toggle closed captions via the Banner display, it required more "down" clicks because the CC symbol was at or near the bottom of the icons available. Now I noticed its only 1 click from the starting point. So faster CC toggle on/off!


Yes, I noticed this! It's great! If they had a remote button for it, it would be even better!


----------



## crxssi

bbrown9 said:


> Yes, I noticed this! It's great! If they had a remote button for it, it would be even better!


+1 Another great suggestion. And it is really not hard for them to implement, and there are plenty of buttons to use.


----------



## danjw1

crxssi said:


> +1 Another great suggestion. And it is really not hard for them to implement, and there are plenty of buttons to use.


That is a hardware change, which is inherently hard. Unless, you intend them to change the usage of an existing button, but that would lead to confusion. I am all for accessibility, but I don't see that until the next generation of Tivos.


----------



## Innerloop

danjw1 said:


> That is a hardware change, which is inherently hard. Unless, you intend them to change the usage of an existing button, but that would lead to confusion. I am all for accessibility, but I don't see that until the next generation of Tivos.


DOWN direction during playback is not currently bound to anything and binding UP to video format sets somewhat of a precedence.


----------



## crxssi

danjw1 said:


> That is a hardware change, which is inherently hard. Unless, you intend them to change the usage of an existing button, but that would lead to confusion. I am all for accessibility, but I don't see that until the next generation of Tivos.


? No, it is not a hardware change. TiVo can map any function they like through software to respond to any button on the remote.


----------



## sbiller

I didn't see this on the OP update post. 

In 14.9 the audio in the Preview window would periodically cut out when changing HDUI screens. It appears to be pretty solid right now and doesn't cut on when toggling between My Shows, Find Shows, etc. 

When a user actually chooses to go back to Live TV there is a brief audio cut-out where it appears the TiVo re-tunes the channel that is in the preview window.


----------



## jkudlacz

sbiller said:


> I didn't see this on the OP update post.
> 
> In 14.9 the audio in the Preview window would periodically cut out when changing HDUI screens. It appears to be pretty solid right now and doesn't cut on when toggling between My Shows, Find Shows, etc.
> 
> When a user actually chooses to go back to Live TV there is a brief audio cut-out where it appears the TiVo re-tunes the channel that is in the preview window.


I actually had an instance where I lost all of my button audio when I went to My Tivo section, I managed to get it back after I went back to live TV and then hit the My Tivo button again. I don't recall exact steps to reproduce but I did loose audio for every menu change.


----------



## sbiller

http://blog.tivo.com/2012/01/an-update-for-tivo-premiere/


----------



## andyf

Oooohhhh! Xfinity on Demand. Hopefully in my neck of the woods.


----------



## danjw1

andyf said:


> Oooohhhh! Xfinity on Demand. Hopefully in my neck of the woods.


I think I saw something from CES that suggested it would be just 4 cities to start. I think it said Austin, TX as one of them.


----------



## txporter

danjw1 said:


> I think I saw something from CES that suggested it would be just 4 cities to start. I think it said Austin, TX as one of them.


It looks to be linked with Comcast, and AFAIK, there is no Comcast here in Austin.


----------



## aaronwt

ADG said:


> I don't recall that with the previous software I could watch a recorded show and bring up the info bar and see what is being recorded on the other channels, but now I can. Nice feature. And if it DID exist before I guess I missed it.


The difference is now, on the Elite, you can go to a specific tuner instead of cycling through them.


----------



## crxssi

sbiller said:


> I didn't see this on the OP update post.
> 
> In 14.9 the audio in the Preview window would periodically cut out when changing HDUI screens. It appears to be pretty solid right now and doesn't cut on when toggling between My Shows, Find Shows, etc.
> 
> When a user actually chooses to go back to Live TV there is a brief audio cut-out where it appears the TiVo re-tunes the channel that is in the preview window.


I am a recent user of the HDUI, so forgive this question- is that a new behavior? Audio dropouts while switching from the TiVo menus to live (or the other way around) wouldn't seem all that unusual to me (since it is such a major change). HOWEVER, when going in and out of the new HDUI guide, there is no audio interruption, and it is pretty fast too.

But I cannot confirm your observation about audio dropping out when moving from one HD HDUI screen to another HD HDUI screen/menu. I tried everything I could, and never had any audio dropouts. Does anyone else have any audio dropouts at the exact time of changing from from HD HDUI screen to another?


----------



## sbiller

crxssi said:


> I am a recent user of the HDUI, so forgive this question- is that a new behavior? Audio dropouts while switching from the TiVo menus to live (or the other way around) wouldn't seem all that unusual to me (since it is such a major change). HOWEVER, when going in and out of the new HDUI guide, there is no audio interruption, and it is pretty fast too.
> 
> But I cannot confirm your observation about audio dropping out when moving from one HD HDUI screen to another HD HDUI screen/menu. I tried everything I could, and never had any audio dropouts. Does anyone else have any audio dropouts at the exact time of changing from from HD HDUI screen to another?


Yes. Its a new behavior. The audio used to drop out between every HDUI screen transition. Maybe someone else can confirm.


----------



## wmcbrine

moyekj said:


> The ability to switch audio stream (SAP) via the info button now actually works! I think this is the first time owning a TiVo where I got this to work.


This has always worked for me, but only during Live TV, not on playback of recordings. It used (?) to be that the TiVo would only record one soundtrack.

Some other comments on 20.2 here.


----------



## jkudlacz

crxssi said:


> I am a recent user of the HDUI, so forgive this question- is that a new behavior? Audio dropouts while switching from the TiVo menus to live (or the other way around) wouldn't seem all that unusual to me (since it is such a major change). HOWEVER, when going in and out of the new HDUI guide, there is no audio interruption, and it is pretty fast too.
> 
> But I cannot confirm your observation about audio dropping out when moving from one HD HDUI screen to another HD HDUI screen/menu. I tried everything I could, and never had any audio dropouts. Does anyone else have any audio dropouts at the exact time of changing from from HD HDUI screen to another?


Yes I have the same issue with my TIVO, this may be related to my SETUP, I am running HDMI cable from TIVO into my Surround Sound system and then from that unit HDMI to my TV.

I have a SONY BDV-IS1000 and my TV is SONY XBR-52HX909.


----------



## jkudlacz

I think I found a possible bug.

I wanted to record the new show The Firm but I totally forgot it was on, fortunately one of my tuners was on that channel so I decided to go pull up Guide and click record and I selected a season pass for the show.

I though that this would record the whole show unfortunately, it only grabbed 1hour and 31 minutes of it, instead of the whole 2 hours and at that point show was running only for 60 min or so.


----------



## crxssi

jkudlacz said:


> I think I found a possible bug.
> 
> I wanted to record the new show The Firm but I totally forgot it was on, fortunately one of my tuners was on that channel so I decided to go pull up Guide and click record and I selected a season pass for the show.
> 
> I though that this would record the whole show unfortunately, it only grabbed 1hour and 31 minutes of it, instead of the whole 2 hours and at that point show was running only for 60 min or so.


The live buffer is only 30 min (on each "tuner"). So if you were 60 min into the show before you told it to record a 120 min program, it would only be able to capture 90 minutes of it. The first 30 min were simply not available. Not a bug, just the way it works with TiVo.


----------



## jkudlacz

crxssi said:


> The live buffer is only 30 min (on each "tuner"). So if you were 60 min into the show before you told it to record a 120 min program, it would only be able to capture 90 minutes of it. The first 30 min were simply not available. Not a bug, just the way it works with TiVo.


Cool thanks, I wish there was ability to increase it, to maybe 60min or 2 hours.


----------



## L David Matheny

jkudlacz said:


> Cool thanks, I wish there was ability to increase it, to maybe 60min or 2 hours.


That's been mentioned before. Certainly in this day of multi-terabyte drives, a 30-minute buffer seems ridiculously small. They should at least bump it to 60. And a user option would be better, of course.


----------



## mumpower

"1.2.3 Closed captions no longer appear on the screen while using 1xFF+ (first fast play) while in the SDUI or HDUI. Margret later explained it was due to technical reasons and implied this feature will not return."

Is there a way we can reject and/or undo updates? This is a seminal usage of the TiVo for me. I'd rather have 14.9 or whatever indefinitely than a new update that removes this functionality, which is critical to how I watch programs.


----------



## teewow

How about Amazon Prime Instant Videos ?


----------



## texino

teewow said:


> How about Amazon Prime Instant Videos ?


I was about to ask the same thing.


----------



## crxssi

mumpower said:


> "1.2.3 Closed captions no longer appear on the screen while using 1xFF+ (first fast play) while in the SDUI or HDUI. Margret later explained it was due to technical reasons and implied this feature will not return."
> 
> Is there a way we can reject and/or undo updates? This is a seminal usage of the TiVo for me. I'd rather have 14.9 or whatever indefinitely than a new update that removes this functionality, which is critical to how I watch programs.


Sorry, I don't think it is possible. When you buy a TiVo, you are buying into a service too. It is not just a box. Game consoles, Blu-Ray players, smart phones, many TV's, etc are that way now, too. A "connected" device can be changed by the manufacturer in ways the end user might not like.


----------



## crxssi

teewow said:


> How about Amazon Prime Instant Videos ?


Nope.

And according the what I have read for the next big update in the Spring, it will probably not show then, either.


----------



## slice1900

crxssi said:


> Sorry, I don't think it is possible. When you buy a TiVo, you are buying into a service too. It is not just a box. Game consoles, Blu-Ray players, smart phones, many TV's, etc are that way now, too. A "connected" device can be changed by the manufacturer in ways the end user might not like.


If it weren't for the need to keep it connected to pick up the latest schedules, I'd have unplugged mine from the Internet to keep it on 14.9. But unfortunately I got the update to 20.2 today, even though I sure as hell did not want it!

Since I received the 14.9 update last fall my Tivo started rebooting a few times a week, whereas previously it was relatively stable and only did that only once couple months. The 20.2 update made things even worse for me, even if it is now 100% stable. Basically in the last two updates, as far as I'm aware Tivo has not added any functionality or fixed any problems I care about, but they made it significantly worse for me and my usage.

This is a big difference between owning a Tivo and most other products capable of updates. With my iPhone I am running iOS 5.0.0, even though I've had a notifier that 5.0.1 has been available for two months. For me not updating it was a deliberate choice because I have a 4S that hasn't experienced battery life issues as some have, and some people who had no issues on 5.0.0 reported having some on 5.0.1. Apple gave me a choice Tivo does not believe I deserve.

This experience will definitely make me think twice about ever buying another Tivo.


----------



## Dan203

I found a bug in the SDUI...

1) Select a program from My Shows and look at it's description.

2) Back out to My Shows, move to a different show on the list and click Play on the remote to start playing.

3) Use back to exit playback of that show.

When you get back to My Shows the program you selected in step #1 will be highlighted and not the program you were just playing.

It really confused me as to what was happening the first few times, but once I nailed down how to repeat it I see what's happening now. It seems the selection flag TiVo uses to determine which show to highlight isn't getting set properly when you play something directly via the Play button rather then selecting it and picking Play from the menu.

Dan


----------



## tomhorsley

I just got 20.2 sometime this afternoon while I was at work, and the main thing I notice is that it is slower. "My Shows" has a big pause which wasn't there before while it is deciding how to draw the list of my recordings at the top (the hulu and amazon icons and wot-not come up pretty fast at the bottom). There is also a much longer pause after I hit the "Guide" button before the new guide actually manages to display. It may look a little better, but since speed was always my primary problem with the Premiere, getting slower doesn't seem like an improvement.


----------



## Dan203

Some times it can take a while for a new version to settle down. There can be a lot of background processing going on right after an upgrade. Give it until tomorrow and if it still seems slow reboot it.

Dan


----------



## lonewoolf47

L David Matheny said:


> That's been mentioned before. Certainly in this day of multi-terabyte drives, a 30-minute buffer seems ridiculously small. They should at least bump it to 60. And a user option would be better, of course.


I strongly agree. This has been my #1 beef with TiVo. Whenever there is a new software update the first thing I look for is an update to at least a 60 minute buffer. I really do not understand their refusal to do so.


----------



## kwajr

lonewoolf47 said:


> I strongly agree. This has been my #1 beef with TiVo. Whenever there is a new software update the first thing I look for is an update to at least a 60 minute buffer. I really do not understand their refusal to do so.


i think the vast majority of us would not see a need for it as most of us do not watch live tv and if i turn it on in the middle of something i usally just have it record the next time it airs


----------



## grafton

Thanks to my crappy power service, I can say my Tivo boot in half the time it used to. before (not sure what version) it was a guaranteed 10min wait for the tivo to get to the home screen from a power disruption, today including the intro video it was 5 minutes!!!

is it possible that the 2nd core is enabled? halving the boot time is pretty cool either way


----------



## wmcbrine

Yes, the second core was enabled in 14.9, as far as we know.


----------



## mumpower

crxssi said:


> Sorry, I don't think it is possible. When you buy a TiVo, you are buying into a service too. It is not just a box. Game consoles, Blu-Ray players, smart phones, many TV's, etc are that way now, too. A "connected" device can be changed by the manufacturer in ways the end user might not like.


My first TiVo was the original 14 hour unit, so I am well aware of service constraints. This instance is different in that it is (for me) the first time that primary functionality is being removed from the device. After the basic recording of shows, there is *nothing* I use more than FF1 with closed captioning. And I have been doing so for about 13 years now. If that functionality is going to be permanently disabled, what I am asking as a user is whether there is a way to hard-lock on 14.9 or another update in order to prevent the elimination of what I consider to be core TiVo functionality. If there is not yet, I am stating that there needs to be.

The problem when new programmers join a technology company is that they oftentimes do not have the full awareness of product usage that long time customers have. As such, they are ordinarily open to feedback about what is important. And I for one consider the closed captioning thing to be functionality that prevents a TiVo from being a TiVo if it is removed. Your mileage and I'm certain several others on this board may vary, but if I had known TiVo was taken this away, I never would have purchased an Elite. The TiVo is much less useful to me without it.

I'm going to express this here where Margaret is thoughtfully reading (your dedication to your job is sincerely appreciated) and I'm also going to lodge a complaint with TiVo customer service. The entire point of updating software is to make a unit better. There is nothing in the 20.x update that could counter the loss of FF1 closed captioning for me. Glancing over a few threads, I am not the only one who feels this way, either. That makes all the more important that the people who agree speak their peace before this mistake becomes codified.


----------



## lessd

Another change I noticed in V20.2 is not only is trick play not enabled on a non sub TiVo but programs that were recorded before the TiVo went un-subbed will play back but you can't use fast forward, rewind, pause, or any of the skip forward modes. So I guess TiVo wants to make a un-subbed TiVo less useful than before. I don't blame TiVo as the box at less than $100 with a 320Tb drive is a real give away if one does not purchase the service.


----------



## jpcamaro70

kwajr said:


> i think the vast majority of us would not see a need for it as most of us do not watch live tv and if i turn it on in the middle of something i usally just have it record the next time it airs


I don't know about the vast majority...For me, A larger buffer is a huge deal.


----------



## lessd

jpcamaro70 said:


> I don't know about the vast majority...For me, A larger buffer is a huge deal.


Things like a larger buffer should not be in this Thread as that not a change in V20.2, many other Threads would be the place to post about changes you would like; say this Thread http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=481297

IMHO we should keep this Thread to changes that V20.2 actually have as much as possible.


----------



## mooneb75

a 60 min buffer would be great - I'd like it to maintain on a channel change too... meaning, not clear when I change the channel.


----------



## Leon WIlkinson

Just got the update, found a bug

If in Live Tv and in 480p/i format and go to TiVo Central(which is 720P) it will not display/draw correctly, It does work sometimes correctly.


----------



## mnb

Cannot enter SPS codes while info banner is up. Hitting play dismisses the info and brings up the play bar. Hitting the 2nd select brings up the mini guide. The numbers at that point do nothing and hitting the final select changes the channel to the default selected show on the mini guide.


----------



## moyekj

mnb said:


> Cannot enter SPS codes while info banner is up. Hitting play dismisses the info and brings up the play bar. Hitting the 2nd select brings up the mini guide. The numbers at that point do nothing and hitting the final select changes the channel to the default selected show on the mini guide.


 This has come up several times. Workarounds:
1.
a. Hit Info first to bring up the info banner
b. Now enter SPS code while the banner is still up

2. Play back a showcase video and you can then enter SPS code as normal while it's playing.

3. Switch to SDUI to enter SPS codes


----------



## xander777

Ok, now that both of my Premieres have 20.2, when can I expect streaming to be activated? I can still only transfer shows, not stream.


----------



## Heron

CRXSSI, thank you for this thread. I haven't been paying attention and woke this morning to changed TiVo displays. (It would be nice if they had included a message advising of the update when they did it.) I figured out it must have been a software update and of course came here to figure out what was going on. So thanks for all your effort to detail the changes.

One point -- in HDUI, when I bring up the guide, it minimizes the live TV picture to the small display in the corner and takes over the rest of the screen with the guide instead of displaying on top of the picture the way it used to do. Is that the only option for guide display (besides the TiVo live guide and grid guide)? If so, I'd put that down as a negative, but that's just my personal preference.


----------



## crxssi

xander777 said:


> Ok, now that both of my Premieres have 20.2, when can I expect streaming to be activated? I can still only transfer shows, not stream.


I believe Margret said the Monday after this coming Monday it will be switched on for everyone.


----------



## crxssi

Heron said:


> CRXSSI, thank you for this thread. I haven't been paying attention and woke this morning to changed TiVo displays. (It would be nice if they had included a message advising of the update when they did it.) I figured out it must have been a software update and of course came here to figure out what was going on. So thanks for all your effort to detail the changes.


You are welcome



> One point -- in HDUI, when I bring up the guide, it minimizes the live TV picture to the small display in the corner and takes over the rest of the screen with the guide instead of displaying on top of the picture the way it used to do. Is that the only option for guide display (besides the TiVo live guide and grid guide)? If so, I'd put that down as a negative, but that's just my personal preference.


There is currently no option to change the preview window on the HDUI guide. It cannot be made the background, and it cannot be turned off. You can see this in 3.2.1.3


----------



## philt56

So my Premiere got the updated HD guide last nite. Seems a little buggy...

If I bring up the guide while watching live tv, it begins with the current channel. If I bring it up while watching a recorded show, it starts at channel 1. I'd rather it go to the current live channel like before. Ch 1 is on-demand followed by all the SD OTA channels for me on comcast, so it's a pain to always have to key in a channel to get to my preferred channels.

Also I have a manual repeated entry that records the 10pm news m-f. Yeah I could have used a season pass but I don't. It is not marked on the grid with a check or double check mark. So if I go to one of those entries and hit record, it doesn't ask "record as planned" (it is in the todo list) like it used to, but wants to record it, I tried record for the heck of it and it made a duplicate recording entry in the to do list.

Also I hit record on a grid entry and after it processed it, it went back to ch 1 again! Remembered the date and time where I was at but not the channel. I must have done this while paused on a recorded show; works ok when watching live tv.


----------



## crxssi

philt56 said:


> If I bring up the guide while watching live tv, it begins with the current channel. If I bring it up while watching a recorded show, it starts at channel 1. I'd rather it go to the current live channel like before. Ch 1 is on-demand followed by all the SD OTA channels for me on comcast, so it's a pain to always have to key in a channel to get to my preferred channels.
> [...]]Also I hit record on a grid entry and after it processed it, it went back to ch 1 again! Remembered the date and time where I was at but not the channel. I must have done this while paused on a recorded show; works ok when watching live tv.


3.2.1.5 / 3.2.1.9


----------



## dsnotgood

crxssi said:


> You are welcome
> 
> There is currently no option to change the preview window on the HDUI guide. It cannot be made the background, and it cannot be turned off. You can see this in 3.2.1.3


you CAN turn off the preview window if you want. I saw it in settings somewhere. Awesome!

EDIT..I lied...nevermind. It looks like its only for when you hit the TiVo button for my shows. Still ..its nice to be able to turn off preview window when I am looking for a show to watch


----------



## windracer

dsnotgood said:


> EDIT..I lied...nevermind. It looks like its only for when you hit the TiVo button for my shows. Still ..its nice to be able to turn off preview window when I am looking for a show to watch


Rather than going through the settings all the time, you can use the Slow button to toggle the window on and off in TiVo Central.


----------



## I_am_not_randy

I am assumming this thread is the clearing house for bugs with the revision 20 release.

There was a bug introduced on 14.9 in which wishlists results (say for a number of talk shows), would be very slow to navigate with the channel down button (the please wait would pop up between each program)

This has NOT been fixed by the new release (it was like the first or second thing I tried).

Overall though I am please with the speed increases in the HD interface. It is fast enough now that I can actually use it. Previously it was so slow for me it rendered it unuseable.


----------



## jsmeeker

Just got 20.2 yesterday.. I have played around with it some and have read through the change log portions that deal with the HDUI. Two points/issues/comments.

1) I noticed that I could not figure out how to filter in the new HD guide. I see the change log entry 3.2.1.7 notes that this feature went away. Eeek!! Somewhere a few pages back, i saw a post that said it would come back at some point, but not ETA. Maybe that entry can be updated to indicate this? Again, it's item 3.2.1.7 but I am not exactly sure that post # talks about it coming back

2) the new banner/information display. How do I bring up the medium banner? Previously, it was easy to toggle between the three different views. The "mini" one that showed just the channel number and name and logo in the upper right hand corner. The "Medium", which ran the width of the screen and gave more information (like the actual name of the program), and the "full" which gave even more options and then let you select options like CC, audio, what the other tuner was recording, etc. Is there not a way to toggle? Before, the directional arrows let me do that. But now, it seems the only way to get the "medium" is when you actually change channels while watching Live TV.


----------



## crxssi

I_am_not_randy said:


> There was a bug introduced on 14.9 in which wishlists results (say for a number of talk shows), would be very slow to navigate with the channel down button (the please wait would pop up between each program)
> 
> This has NOT been fixed by the new release (it was like the first or second thing I tried).


Yes, I do recall that issue, although for some reason it didn't make the last changelog (probably an oversight). It was even in the thread. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8871667#post8871667

I will add to to the carryover.


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## tomhorsley

Another weird glitch I noticed: I'm browsing through tivo suggestions. I see a show I don't ever want it to waste time recording again. I select it to get to the screen for that individual show so I can hit thumbs down a lot. I then select "delete this recording".

That almost instantly takes me back to the list of suggestions, which even has the show I just deleted already missing from the list. Wow, I think, it is actually quick here.

Then a second later, the whole screen goes black and it redraws the exact same screen from scratch again. Weird.


----------



## crxssi

tomhorsley said:


> Another weird glitch I noticed: I'm browsing through tivo suggestions. I see a show I don't ever want it to waste time recording again. I select it to get to the screen for that individual show so I can hit thumbs down a lot. I then select "delete this recording".
> 
> That almost instantly takes me back to the list of suggestions, which even has the show I just deleted already missing from the list. Wow, I think, it is actually quick here. Then a second later, the whole screen goes black and it redraws the exact same screen from scratch again. Weird.


Very similar to 3.2.6
Did you have an "X" showing on that recording when you went back to the list, then it redrew the screen to remove the X'ed show from the list? Having a single redraw is "normal" (annoying, but normal).


----------



## mnb

moyekj said:


> This has come up several times. Workarounds:
> 1.
> a. Hit select first to bring up the info banner
> b. Now enter SPS code while the banner is still up (including starting with select again)
> 
> 2. Play back a showcase video and you can then enter SPS code as normal while it's playing.
> 
> 3. Switch to SDUI to enter SPS codes


Hitting select brings up the mini guide, not the info banner. Hitting select again to begin the SPS sequence selects a show on the grid, which fails the SPS entry.


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## mnb

With the old guide you could arrow over to the right panel and hit select to get record options on the show that is currently playing on that channel.

With the new guide, hitting select changes the channel, which is unexpected behavior. It does this when you are in the left or right panel. 


If you scroll down to a show playing in the future in the right panel, the guide behaves as before... ie: hitting select brings up a record option screen.

This happens if you do this on the channel that is currently live or not. If the channel is live (ie: being watched), it dismisses all dialogs and pops up the mini info banner and play bar as if you'd just changed the channel to that show. If you hit select on a currently playing show on a channel that isn't live, it changes to that channel.


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## moyekj

mnb said:


> Hitting select brings up the mini guide, not the info banner. Hitting select again to begin the SPS sequence selects a show on the grid, which fails the SPS entry.


 Corrected my post for workaround 1.


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## crxssi

mnb said:


> With the old guide you could arrow over to the right panel and hit select to get record options on the show that is currently playing on that channel. With the new guide, hitting select changes the channel, which is unexpected behavior. It does this when you are in the left or right panel.


* HDUI (there are two UI's)
* Sounds like you are talking about the Live Guide (there are two guides- live and grid)
* Yep, the behavior is probably a bit different, although it actually makes sense. If something is currently playing (current time slot), it just takes you there. Probably no need for recording options at that point.
* I am not familiar with the old, live, HDUI guide, since until recently, I could never tolerate the HDUI long enough to get to know it. I will assume you are much more familiar with it, so I will add this as another entry describing changes in the guide. Good observation!


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## morac

Rather than put bugs in a negative category, would it be possible to break things out that are obvious bugs as opposed to things you simply don't like?


----------



## cherry ghost

jsmeeker said:


> 2) the new banner/information display. How do I bring up the medium banner? Previously, it was easy to toggle between the three different views. The "mini" one that showed just the channel number and name and logo in the upper right hand corner. The "Medium", which ran the width of the screen and gave more information (like the actual name of the program), and the "full" which gave even more options and then let you select options like CC, audio, what the other tuner was recording, etc. Is there not a way to toggle? Before, the directional arrows let me do that. But now, it seems the only way to get the "medium" is when you actually change channels while watching Live TV.


3.2.2

There is no longer a "mini". And yes, the only way to get "medium" is to change the channel or go to Live TV from the menus. Someone has mentioned elsewhere that the right arrow will eventually be used for something other than bring up the "full" which will then only be accessible by pressing 'info".


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## jsmeeker

cherry ghost said:


> 3.2.2
> 
> There is no longer a "mini". And yes, the only way to get "medium" is to change the channel or go to Live TV from the menus. Someone has mentioned elsewhere that the right arrow will eventually be used for something other than bring up the "full" which will then only be accessible by pressing 'info".


Thanks

I really don't care so much about losing the "mini', but I wish I could easily bring up and dismiss the "medium" without changing the channel.

Not really a major thing, but I will have to get used to different behavior when using the left and right directional arrows while watching LiveTV, or even a recorded program.. After over 10 years of use, it's different now.


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## crxssi

morac said:


> Rather than put bugs in a negative category, would it be possible to break things out that are obvious bugs as opposed to things you simply don't like?


Well, we talked about it before. Maybe I will try a different format next time (if I can muster the obsession to do it again). Bugs are always negative, though (that is by definition of what a bug is). But sometimes changes are neither positive or negative (or they are both), since it is more subjective. Just tried to go with what appears to be the majority sentiment. Even label some when it isn't clear. I believe many people do like having things separated, even if it isn't perfect.

It is even sometimes unclear if something is a bug or an intentional change (a good example would be the disappearance of closed captioning why fast playing. At first, it seems to be a bug- an omission or malfunction of a previous feature, until we are told by Margret that it's removal was an intentional design change to deal with other, unspecified needs)


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## jsmeeker

I pretty much agree. I think the lack of a filter in the guide is a negative. I don't know if it is a bug or of it's intentional, but I am not quite sure how anyone would think of it as a positive. So, to me, that goes to the negative side no matter what the reason behind it.

The way there banner/info works? That's more of a personal preference. I would prefer to be able to cycle through the styles of "medium" and "full" like I could before, but it's just a personal preference.


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## PedjaR

Sometimes when I delete a show and it returns me to My Shows, instead of being around the spot where the deleted recording was, I find myself all teh way down on the Recently Deleted line. That did not happen until 20.2., then it happened every time for a few days, then it did not happen at all for a few days, then it started happening again. Weird. Anybody else noticed this?


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## StarkNaked

PedjaR said:


> Sometimes when I delete a show and it returns me to My Shows, instead of being around the spot where the deleted recording was, I find myself all teh way down on the Recently Deleted line. That did not happen until 20.2., then it happened every time for a few days, then it did not happen at all for a few days, then it started happening again. Weird. Anybody else noticed this?


Yes, I have had that happen. Confused the heck out of me till I figured out what happened. It was one of those " what just happened" moments.


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## crxssi

StarkNaked said:


> Yes, I have had that happen. Confused the heck out of me till I figured out what happened. It was one of those " what just happened" moments.


I have had a lot of strange deletion experiences in the HDUI. Today, I tried to delete a suggested program 12 times and it simply would not delete. I tried every way I could think of and most of the time it would "think" about it for several seconds or more (one time I waited 30 seconds for the "X" to go away and it to disappear before trying something else). I then just decided to try and play the damn thing- it came up and said it could not play it because of some video problem with it, so I tried yet again and then it played, and it was not a complete program. Seems it had recorded some "blank", non-existent stuff, then had video. This must have confused it. Once I exited it that, it would finally delete.

Now THAT is strange.


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## gteague

mnb said:


> Hitting select brings up the mini guide, not the info banner. Hitting select again to begin the SPS sequence selects a show on the grid, which fails the SPS entry.


+1, yes it does.

and there is also no guarantee that there will be a show in the showcase section suitable for use. the only one i had found that worked was the morning joe promotion and it has disappeared lately.

/guy


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## jsmeeker

I've seen some weird issues with one of the tuners changing to the lowest channel number i have in "Channels I receive". Not when I am watching Live TV.. But if I am watching a program from My Shows and then cut to Live TV, I sometimes wind up on channel 101, even if neither tuner was ever tuned to that channel.


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## mnb

moyekj said:


> Corrected my post for workaround 1.


workaround 1 does not work.

Once you press play in the SPS sequence, it breaks. At least in HDUI mode. I NEVER use SDUI unless there's no HDUI screen for it yet.


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## mnb

HDUI mode
at Main Tivo screen or in My Shows

Before:
Pressing the guide button took you to the channel shown in the video preview with the guide window up.

Now:
Pressing the guide button in those situations does nothing. Not even an error bonk sound.


----------



## compnurd

mnb said:


> HDUI mode
> at Main Tivo screen or in My Shows
> 
> Before:
> Pressing the guide button took you to the channel shown in the video preview with the guide window up.
> 
> Now:
> Pressing the guide button in those situations does nothing. Not even an error bonk sound.


Pressing Guide is both of those situations takes me to the guide?


----------



## mnb

mnb said:


> HDUI mode
> at Main Tivo screen or in My Shows
> 
> Before:
> Pressing the guide button took you to the channel shown in the video preview with the guide window up.
> 
> Now:
> Pressing the guide button in those situations does nothing. Not even an error bonk sound.


Odd, I tested it again just now. I'm not using my usual remote. I'm using one from a Series 2 because I dropped my Premiere's remote into a cup of coffee and it doesn't work anymore. =( I think I may have been pressing Info instead of Guide. I can't repro the issue by pressing guide, with either a recorded show or live TV playing. But I can if I press Info (which is not an issue, IMO).

So I'd ignore this issue unless others report it as well. Sorry...


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## morac

mnb said:


> Odd, I tested it again just now. I'm not using my usual remote. I'm using one from a Series 2 because I dropped my Premiere's remote into a cup of coffee and it doesn't work anymore. =( I think I may have been pressing Info instead of Guide. I can't repro the issue by pressing guide, with either a recorded show or live TV playing. But I can if I press Info (which is not an issue, IMO).


The guide remote code changes depending on what remote you use. The TiVo knows which code to listen for when you press the TiVo button. So if you swap remotes, you need to press the TiVo button first or the guide button won't work correctly. Maybe that's what happened to you?


----------



## gespears

Any news on whether or not they are going to fix the SPS 9 code and move the clock from the middle of the screen and make it the same size it was before?

Thanks


----------



## sbiller

gespears said:


> Any news on whether or not they are going to fix the SPS 9 code and move the clock from the middle of the screen and make it the same size it was before?
> 
> Thanks


I'm guessing they will make it an officially supported feature sometime this year!


----------



## basscadet

I just got the update on my Premiere tonight. Overall I like it pretty well (I hated the SD guide), but one thing that's bothering me and I don't see listed in the changelog is that it no longer displays "HD" in the grid guide for HD shows? Or maybe this is a bug like the "new" tags disappearing? I have no "HD" displays on the grid guide - I have to look at the info for a show. For me this is really annoying because I basically just won't watch a show if it's not HD, and some networks (like Food Network) do have shows that could be either HD or SD depending on when they were filmed (and the SD versions are stretched). So I need to click around all over the guide to figure out what I can actually watch.

Also, since it seems like we're just generally commenting on stuff, I must be the only one who *liked* the Discovery Bar the way it was... it's really disappointing to me to have only four things in it now. I actually did use this the way TiVo intended - to find stuff to watch that I might not have thought of before - though even still, it only had maybe a 10% "hit rate" with me. But with only four items in it, it's now basically useless - there just aren't enough items in it to make it worth even glancing at now, because the chances of any particular one of them being something I want to watch are very low.

These are the only two big complaints I have. One more minor complaint is that the left arrow button seems to *rarely* work on any screen in this release, and I guess I'd gotten into the habit of using that to "back out" of pretty much anywhere I happened to be. I'm having to re-learn how to get around. The "HD" display thing seems like a bug so I'm hoping that just gets fixed somehow.


----------



## gteague

has anyone other than me noticed that the hd menu system seems to have gotten slower and slower the further away from the update we travel? it's such a subtle and incremental thing i barely noticed it for days until the lag time started accumulating enough to be noticeable. i'd estimate the hd menus are perhaps 15-20% less responsive than the few days after the update was loaded. for me who had previously deep-sixed the hd menus for being too slow, that point is nearly being reached again where i abandon them for the sd system.

/guy


----------



## moyekj

gteague said:


> has anyone other than me noticed that the hd menu system seems to have gotten slower and slower the further away from the update we travel? it's such a subtle and incremental thing i barely noticed it for days until the lag time started accumulating enough to be noticeable. i'd estimate the hd menus are perhaps 15-20% less responsive than the few days after the update was loaded. for me who had previously deep-sixed the hd menus for being too slow, that point is nearly being reached again where i abalone them for the sd system.
> 
> /guy


 I reached my threshold of tolerance of HDUI after about 1 week and reverted back to SDUI. Too many little bugs/quirks/inconsistencies and still way too slow for me. I try not to use the GUI much at all on the TiVos anyway so HDUI doesn't do much for me anyway. Unfortunately some things such as Recording History that are part of SDUI were broken with 20.2. In any case the release and reliability of MRS though more than makes up for most of the negatives for me, especially since one can MRS still-recording programs.


----------



## lessd

moyekj said:


> I reached my threshold of tolerance of HDUI after about 1 week and reverted back to SDUI. Too many little bugs/quirks/inconsistencies and still way too slow for me. I try not to use the GUI much at all on the TiVos anyway so HDUI doesn't do much for me anyway. Unfortunately some things such as Recording History that are part of SDUI were broken with 20.2. In any case the release and reliability of MRS though more than makes up for most of the negatives for me, especially since one can MRS still-recording programs.


+1


----------



## CoxInPHX

gteague said:


> has anyone other than me noticed that the hd menu system seems to have gotten slower and slower the further away from the update we travel? it's such a subtle and incremental thing i barely noticed it for days until the lag time started accumulating enough to be noticeable. i'd estimate the hd menus are perhaps 15-20% less responsive than the few days after the update was loaded. for me who had previously deep-sixed the hd menus for being too slow, that point is nearly being reached again where i abandon them for the sd system.
> 
> /guy


Yes I do notice that too. Reboot now takes longer also. 5+ minutes now

I have an issue during rebooting now too. When the final boot screen loads it is only the upper left corner of the screen, but displays the full boot screen in that upper 1/4 of the display. Very Odd.


----------



## sbiller

CoxInPHX said:


> Yes I do notice that too. Reboot now takes longer also. 5+ minutes now
> 
> I have an issue during rebooting now too. When the final boot screen loads it is only the upper left corner of the screen, but displays the full boot screen in that upper 1/4 of the display. Very Odd.


I have no issues during rebooting. My reboot times have increased a bit. I'm thinking that the increased boot times may be related to the number of programs stored on the TiVo.

TiVo Premiere w/ 500GB external drive: 4m 50s - 94% full
TiVo Premiere Elite: 4m 45s - 27% full


----------



## TerpBE

I noticed something the other day that may or may not be a version 20 change.

When performing a wishlist search, they limit the number of matching items (300 I think).

For example, I have a wishlist for "Movies, (2010) * (2011) * (2012)". I like to check it now and then to see what newer movies are airing in the next couple of weeks. However, when I looked at it the other day I noticed that the list only included airings for the next three days! I looked at the guide and there was guide data for ~2 weeks, but only 3 days worth of movies were listed for the wish list.

Doing a quick flip through the list, I think the number of entries was ~300, so I don't know if they set that to be the maximum number of search results allowed. Also, I'm not sure if this was necessarily changed for version 20.2, but I never noticed it before then so I'm suspecting it was.

Can anyone verify whether this has been changed or if it has always had a limit?


----------



## astrohip

TerpBE said:


> I noticed something the other day that may or may not be a version 20 change.
> 
> *When performing a wishlist search, they limit the number of matching items (300 I think).*
> 
> For example, I have a wishlist for "Movies, (2010) * (2011) * (2012)". I like to check it now and then to see what newer movies are airing in the next couple of weeks. However, when I looked at it the other day I noticed that the list only included airings for the next three days! I looked at the guide and there was guide data for ~2 weeks, but only 3 days worth of movies were listed for the wish list.
> 
> *Doing a quick flip through the list, I think the number of entries was ~300, so I don't know if they set that to be the maximum number of search results allowed.* Also, I'm not sure if this was necessarily changed for version 20.2, but I never noticed it before then so I'm suspecting it was.
> 
> Can anyone verify whether this has been changed or if it has always had a limit?


I may be confused or not reading this correctly, but in the first bolded (my bold) statement, you refer to "matching items". In the second bolded entry, you refer to "number of entries", then "search results allowed".

Are you referring to number of WL or number of results?

There has always been a 200 cap on the number of results displayed from a WL search. This goes back to antiquity. As far as number of WL allowed, I can't answer. I have around 60-70. Have had as many as 80-90 in the past. Never hit a limit, but I'm not in the triple digits either. There were times in the past I hit the 200 cap on displays. I haven't had that problem lately. Either they raised it (300?), or the Boolean tweaks I added to many WL have helped.


----------



## CoxInPHX

CoxInPHX said:


> I have an issue during rebooting now too. When the final boot screen loads it is only the upper left corner of the screen, but displays the full boot screen in that upper 1/4 of the display. Very Odd.


Removing 480i from the Video Output Formats resolved this. But 480i upscaled to 1080i is not pretty.


----------



## jkudlacz

basscadet said:


> I just got the update on my Premiere tonight. Overall I like it pretty well (I hated the SD guide), but one thing that's bothering me and I don't see listed in the changelog is that it no longer displays "HD" in the grid guide for HD shows? Or maybe this is a bug like the "new" tags disappearing? I have no "HD" displays on the grid guide - I have to look at the info for a show. For me this is really annoying because I basically just won't watch a show if it's not HD, and some networks (like Food Network) do have shows that could be either HD or SD depending on when they were filmed (and the SD versions are stretched). So I need to click around all over the guide to figure out what I can actually watch.
> 
> Also, since it seems like we're just generally commenting on stuff, I must be the only one who *liked* the Discovery Bar the way it was... it's really disappointing to me to have only four things in it now. I actually did use this the way TiVo intended - to find stuff to watch that I might not have thought of before - though even still, it only had maybe a 10% "hit rate" with me. But with only four items in it, it's now basically useless - there just aren't enough items in it to make it worth even glancing at now, because the chances of any particular one of them being something I want to watch are very low.
> 
> These are the only two big complaints I have. One more minor complaint is that the left arrow button seems to *rarely* work on any screen in this release, and I guess I'd gotten into the habit of using that to "back out" of pretty much anywhere I happened to be. I'm having to re-learn how to get around. The "HD" display thing seems like a bug so I'm hoping that just gets fixed somehow.


You can get 6 suggestion windows if you choose to close the Video window in top right corner.


----------



## crxssi

CoxInPHX said:


> Yes I do notice that too. Reboot now takes longer also. 5+ minutes now
> 
> I have an issue during rebooting now too. When the final boot screen loads it is only the upper left corner of the screen, but displays the full boot screen in that upper 1/4 of the display. Very Odd.


Curious- why are you rebooting?


----------



## crxssi

gteague said:


> has anyone other than me noticed that the hd menu system seems to have gotten slower and slower the further away from the update we travel? it's such a subtle and incremental thing i barely noticed it for days until the lag time started accumulating enough to be noticeable. i'd estimate the hd menus are perhaps 15-20% less responsive than the few days after the update was loaded.


I have not noticed that myself, but I did start getting the mysterious, blue, spinning, wait circles that people had complained about in the past. Have never seen them before (ever) before yesterday. They seem to appear at random. Of course, this is the longest I have ever used the HDUI. I have had to switch back and forth from HDUI to SDUI several times over the last few weeks when attempting to verify things for the changelog. But I have never rebooted.

I am still able to tolerate the HDUI, which is still very unusual behavior for me.....


----------



## moyekj

crxssi said:


> I am still able to tolerate the HDUI, which is still very unusual behavior for me.....


 You have more tolerance than me. I threw in the towel after about 10 days and went back to the good 'ole SDUI. Especially now that the "stops responding to remote control" SDUI bug seems to be history I can't find any good reason to put up with HDUI.


----------



## crxssi

moyekj said:


> You have more tolerance than me. I threw in the towel after about 10 days and went back to the good 'ole SDUI. Especially now that the "stops responding to remote control" SDUI bug seems to be history I can't find any good reason to put up with HDUI.


It's purrrrrdy


----------



## compnurd

crxssi said:


> It's purrrrrdy


yup lol


----------



## WillH

crxssi said:


> I have not noticed that myself, but I did start getting the mysterious, blue, spinning, wait circles that people had complained about in the past. Have never seen them before (ever) before yesterday. They seem to appear at random. Of course, this is the longest I have ever used the HDUI. I have had to switch back and forth from HDUI to SDUI several times over the last few weeks when attempting to verify things for the changelog. But I have never rebooted.
> 
> I am still able to tolerate the HDUI, which is still very unusual behavior for me.....


The "spinning circle" used to be a solid green donut and the green color would vary in brightness indicating a "spin" effect. So far, I have not seen the spinning green circle with 20.2 but I have seen a new blue "starburst" type spinning circle. The times I have seen it, it was very brief and so far, it hasn't "hung" like the spinning green circle.

Also, I seem to remember the discovery bar was visible on the guide and Tivo Central but not sure. If they did in fact drop it from the guide, this is a step forward.

HDUI does seem a bit faster but deletes still seem to take forever.

EDIT: This may have been mentioned before but just like all previous versions, when you are playing a show that was recording and attempt to delete it (while watching it), it will ask you if you want to STOP and then DELETE but it not only takes forever to accomplish the task, it sometimes will not delete the show - it will still remain in My Shows.


----------



## Lars_J

Yay... I have not been following the site, so it was a pleasant surprise to turn on the TV to see a new release. It just looked different. 

As an SDUI user I like the cleaner more consistent UI. I would love to try the HDUI, but as a parent of young school kids I need to have parental controls enabled. I'm already looking forward to the next major release, since that has been promised as part of it.

I have noticed a few things in 20.2: (again, these are SDUI)

- After playing a Youtube video, the TiVo menu navigation stops making the typical 'blip blip' TiVo sound. And the menu sound doesn't come back until I play a DVRed recording. (I did see this on the previous release as well)

- A navigation change, when I use the 'find program'(?) search, and then select a show, it now goes directly to a list of upcoming airings, instead of the menu where I can add a season pass. Right now I have to select an airing to get the option to add a season pass. Not a major issue, but slightly annoying to have an extra step.

- Also... Youtube playback is *still* limited to 360p/480p quality. Why not 1080p?


----------



## rainwater

Lars_J said:


> I would love to try the HDUI, but as a parent of young school kids I need to have parental controls enabled. I'm already looking forward to the next major release, since that has been promised as part of it.


I think Kidzone will not make it to the HDUI but TiVo does appear to be bringing some type of parental controls which is always a good thing.


----------



## jkudlacz

WillH said:


> The "spinning circle" used to be a solid green donut and the green color would vary in brightness indicating a "spin" effect. So far, I have not seen the spinning green circle with 20.2 but I have seen a new blue "starburst" type spinning circle. The times I have seen it, it was very brief and so far, it hasn't "hung" like the spinning green circle.
> 
> Also, I seem to remember the discovery bar was visible on the guide and Tivo Central but not sure. If they did in fact drop it from the guide, this is a step forward.
> 
> HDUI does seem a bit faster but deletes still seem to take forever.


In relation to Delete issue I think I found an issue.

Australian Open was on ESPN yesterday, so I decided to hit red rec button and record the show/games and I added extra 1 hour to it.

I switched to different channel and then watched some Seinfeld that we had previously recorded from My Shows, after watching it, I noticed that Australian Open is still recording but player I wanted to see lost her match so I was no longer interested. I decided to delete the show. I was successful at it, or at least it seemed that way. Yesterday I went to My Shows and I saw the Australian Open recording in there, I deleted it again, and this morning it is still there.

I am not sure if I am stuck with it forever now, or if it will eventually go away, but this is a bug. I may have triggered it by trying to delete it while it was still recording but I am not sure.

EDIT: I tried to remove it again last night and it worked this time.


----------



## miadlor

Sorry if any of this has been stated.

Guide and banner are nice.
Banner is redundant when it displays the channel you're on.

As far as the settings/menu screens that were SD, no improvement worth mentioning. If everything was accessed/looked like the main screen and now guide, it would be real nice.

Still waiting for Streaming is odd.

The channel surfing issue.....when the info would flicker back and forth between channels and not match the show for a moment, is better.

Now when if gets confused, it occasionally lists the same info 2x, but it does show the actual show listed.


----------



## crxssi

WillH said:


> I have seen a new blue "starburst" type spinning circle.


Yes, that is what I was talking about



> The times I have seen it, it was very brief and so far, it hasn't "hung" like the spinning green circle.


Sometimes it is brief, other times it was several seconds. Hasn't happened today, though (nor any day before yesterday).


----------



## CoxInPHX

crxssi said:


> Curious- why are you rebooting?


I usually reboot at least once a week for most all electronics and computers, DVRs STBs, TAs

However, over the last several days, Cox has been attempting to Authorize the Plus Package channels on my TiVo, without success, so I have been rebooting after each attempt by cox to try something else!!!!!!!!! Cox is so lame at CableCARDS it is embarassing.


----------



## bhoch99

Has anyone tried to stream via MRS from a Premiere to a Series 3? I have a Premiere and a Series 3 both w/lifetime, but the Series 3 has a dead disk. I would love to be able to repair it and stream from the Premiere to the Series 3, but don't want to make the investment if it's not going to work. I'm a Time Warner subscriber, so MRV doesn't work with many programs thanks to all these CCI bytes... It's either that, or wait for a Tivo Preview...


----------



## wmcbrine

It's not going to work. The Series 3 software hasn't been updated since 11.0k, and TiVo's MRS didn't exist at that time.


----------



## philhu

You go into guide

Click a show, select record

Go in guide, see show marked to record. Click it, you are preseented with 'record' or 'explore'. No 'Cancel recording'

To cancel, you go to todo list and cancel.

Shouldn't there be a canel recording, instead of 'record' on the 2nd click like explained?


----------



## cherry ghost

philhu said:


> You go into guide
> 
> Click a show, select record
> 
> Go in guide, see show marked to record. Click it, you are preseented with 'record' or 'explore'. No 'Cancel recording'
> 
> To cancel, you go to todo list and cancel.
> 
> Shouldn't there be a canel recording, instead of 'record' on the 2nd click like explained?


already listed in the changelog, 3.2.1.6


----------



## Necromancer2006

Yuck. Who do I send a request for the (future) option of having the live TV window be disabled? I hate having shows spoiled!


----------



## fastoy

Related to 3.1.10 when you use the 30 second jump button on the remote the shuttle/progress bar indicates "30 secs", "1 min", "1 m 30 s", etc. rather than ":30", "1:00", "1:30", etc.

I would consider this a negative as the eye takes longer to interpret the new format than the old format.


----------



## TerpBE

astrohip said:


> I may be confused or not reading this correctly, but in the first bolded (my bold) statement, you refer to "matching items". In the second bolded entry, you refer to "number of entries", then "search results allowed".
> 
> Are you referring to number of WL or number of results?
> 
> There has always been a 200 cap on the number of results displayed from a WL search. This goes back to antiquity.


I'm referring to the number of results displayed for a single wishlist. I'm pretty sure the 200 result cap was removed a year or two ago, but now it seems to be back (and perhaps now 300).


----------



## John Cavanaugh

Got 20.2 last night. I don't know if this issue existed before 20.2 as I hadn't tried it - so sorry if this is a known issue.

Had a program stored on my PC that I wanted to transfer back to the Tivo. Followed the menus and told the Tivo to transfer it, blue light came on, transfer started. Went back to the list of programs on the PC and selected another one for transfer. Got to the "this program will be added to the queue and transferred next" screen, hit ok and the UI locked up. At this point, the transfer of the first program was still running. The Tivo started recording something else after the UI lock up so I know that it was still working - and I can see the Tivo from my iphone/ipad (Tivo app) so I know it's still there - but the UI is locked at that screen. I can see that the Tivo is receiving the commands from the remote (yellow light on Tivo) but nothing I hit on the remote does anything to get me off that screen. 

Turned the TV off and did something else for a while. Noticed that the blue light had gone out on the Tivo so I turned the TV back on - and the UI was still locked up.

Came back a while later and both programs had transferred and the UI was functional again. Went through the whole process again and had the same result (UI lock ups followed by both programs transferring followed by UI coming back).

This isn't a huge deal as i'm not normally going to be queuing up multiple programs to pull back down to the Tivo but the UI shouldn't lock up.

Anyone else seeing this?

Thanks.


----------



## jkudlacz

Necromancer2006 said:


> Yuck. Who do I send a request for the (future) option of having the live TV window be disabled? I hate having shows spoiled!


Just use Pause that is why it is there. Also you can disable it by pressing button below pause when you are using TIVO HD menus.


----------



## shamilian

wmcbrine said:


> It's not going to work. The Series 3 software hasn't been updated since 11.0k, and TiVo's MRS didn't exist at that time.


I asked Margret about the possibility:

@tivodesign Is there a chance we might see a Tivo Streaming Client (and a remote delete function) on the TivoHD box ?
17 Jan
in reply to ↑

@shamilian No, I don't expect any significant updates to the Series3/HD boxes.
17 Jan via web


----------



## crxssi

jkudlacz said:


> Just use Pause that is why it is there. Also you can disable it by pressing button below pause when you are using TIVO HD menus.


That only works in the non-guide.

3.2.1.3


----------



## rambler

astrohip said:


> [couple of nits: I think you mean CAPTIONS, not subtitles. And it's usually referred to as 1XFF, meaning it's the first of the three FF. 3X usually refers to the fastest FF. And yes, I know that 1XFF is about 3x the speed.]
> 
> This would be a HUGE backward shift for me. I watch 100% captions (I'm deaf) anyway. And I often will watch at 1XFF thru news shows and whatnot, using captions to keep up with what's being reported. If this is true, giant GIANT step backwards.
> 
> Unfortunately, I have been away for a week, and have missed the 20.2 rollout. No way to tell if I got it, or to validate any of these things I've been reading about for several days. I'm just hoping (if my Elite rec'd it) that it went with no trouble--no lockups, etc. I've got days & days of recordings set while I'm away.


OMG this is HUGE for me too........I ALWAYS used this to get thru shows quicker. Who can I complain to at Tivo?


----------



## moyekj

CORRECTION: "4.4 There are still times when "Stop and Delete" in both HDUI and SDUI will stop the program recording but will not delete the program."

Now that I've switched back to SDUI permanently again - there is no "Stop and Delete" option when using SDUI. That option is only available in HDUI. Back when using HDUI that option didn't work for me most of the time anyway so I still delete the old way of first stopping and then deleting (using clear button).


----------



## WillH

moyekj said:


> CORRECTION: "4.4 There are still times when "Stop and Delete" in both HDUI and SDUI will stop the program recording but will not delete the program."
> 
> Now that I've switched back to SDUI permanently again - there is no "Stop and Delete" option when using SDUI. That option is only available in HDUI. Back when using HDUI that option didn't work for me most of the time anyway so I still delete the old way of first stopping and then deleting (using clear button).


Yes - this is what I posted about last night. AFAIK, this feature has never worked right for my unit which I have owned since Day 1 (April 2010). Even when I successfully delete it, it will take several seconds for it to actually disappear from the My Shows menu - it will appear as an X beside the show and then it will disappear. Sometimes it happens instantaneously but other times it will hang there a while. This still happens with 20.2 - same exact behavior as with all previouse firmware updates. This was when I used to see the spinning green circle hanging there and freezing the player for long periods.


----------



## crxssi

moyekj said:


> CORRECTION: "4.4 There are still times when "Stop and Delete" in both HDUI and SDUI will stop the program recording but will not delete the program."
> 
> Now that I've switched back to SDUI permanently again - there is no "Stop and Delete" option when using SDUI. That option is only available in HDUI. Back when using HDUI that option didn't work for me most of the time anyway so I still delete the old way of first stopping and then deleting (using clear button).


Hmmm, shows my much my memory is fading already. I think you are right- there was never a stop and delete option in the SDUI. But I also think when you stopped a recording in the SDUI, doesn't it ALWAYS delete it? Or was it that it deleted a suggestion recording in progress but not a scheduled (requested) recording??


----------



## moyekj

crxssi said:


> Hmmm, shows my much my memory is fading already. I think you are right- there was never a stop and delete option in the SDUI. But I also think when you stopped a recording in the SDUI, doesn't it ALWAYS delete it? Or was it that it deleted a suggestion recording in progress but not a scheduled (requested) recording??


 No, stopping a recording in SDUI does NOT automatically delete it - I wouldn't want it to ever do that. (Suggestions are first thing I disable on a TiVo so can't comment on those).


----------



## mattack

I don't have a Premiere, but isn't there a case where it WILL delete a non-suggestion?

If a show is currently being recorded (or 2, lets say), and you try to record ANOTHER, and it says
"will STOP recording WHATEVER", doesn't it in that case NOT keep the partial recording of WHATEVER?

I do seem to remember there is one edge case like that.


----------



## WillH

Not sure if this was reported but I am using my Premiere XL with Comcast here in Atlanta using the 2 tuner cable card. With all previous software from April 2010 through 14.9, if I tried to go to a channel that was not part of my Comcast subscription/lineup, I would get a black screen error message that said, in effect, that I would need to contact my Cable provider. It looked like a sort of old DOS type screen that originated from the Motorola cablecard ROM. In other words, it would throw me completely out of the Tivo menu into some type of computer ROM error message -almost like a crash. The only way to get out of it was to hit the TIVO button on the remote.

Now with 20.2, at least so far, when I have done this, I get the Tivo message that says "Searching for a signal......" and then it eventually says the channel is not available. This I would think would be normal behavior. So this looks to have fixed the issue. ?


----------



## moyekj

WillH said:


> Not sure if this was reported but I am using my Premiere XL with Comcast here in Atlanta using the 2 tuner cable card. With all previous software from April 2010 through 14.9, if I tried to go to a channel that was not part of my Comcast subscription/lineup, I would get a black screen error message that said, in effect, that I would need to contact my Cable provider. It looked like a sort of old DOS type screen that originated from the Motorola cablecard ROM. In other words, it would throw me completely out of the Tivo menu into some type of computer ROM error message -almost like a crash. The only way to get out of it was to hit the TIVO button on the remote.


 I had that issue for the longest time as well but on only 1 of my Premiere units. It turns out the issue was my CableCard was not properly paired so that if I tuned to a copy-protected channel (only premiums are copy protected for my cable company) I would get that screen. Once I called the cable company to get that fixed then I no longer got the CableCard nag screen any longer on that Premiere either.


----------



## WillH

moyekj said:


> I had that issue for the longest time as well but on only 1 of my Premiere units. It turns out the issue was my CableCard was not properly paired so that if I tuned to a copy-protected channel (only premiums are copy protected for my cable company) I would get that screen. Once I called the cable company to get that fixed then I no longer got the CableCard nag screen any longer on that Premiere either.


Thanks - I will play with this some more. I've only had 20.2 for a few days but the few channels I tried it with, it didn't happen.

Hate the thought of actually contacting Comcast again for help on a cablecard issue.


----------



## MikeOrlando

I was disappointed with the last update where I lost the ability to FFx3 and then hit FF a forth time to "smart restart" or "snap back to the start of the show. I had done some research and received mixed results whether this was expected behavior or not.

I was HOPING this would be "fixed" in the 20.2 update, but unfortunately not. Am I to presume this is now expected behaviour?



Mike


----------



## wmcbrine

I have never seen FF behave that way. The old behavior was simply that a fourth FF press would return to Play. This involved a slight rewind as it always does with a TiVo, but not a return to the beginning of the program.

If you _want_ to get quickly to the beginning of the program, hit Rewind, then use the Advance button.


----------



## MikeOrlando

wmcbrine said:


> I have never seen FF behave that way. The old behavior was simply that a fourth FF press would return to Play. This involved a slight rewind as it always does with a TiVo, but not a return to the beginning of the program.
> 
> If you _want_ to get quickly to the beginning of the program, hit Rewind, then use the Advance button.


Understood, but the result of that behaviour was "snapping back" a bit and if you did this at the right time it would return to around the time a commercial break ended and the show resumed.

For now you get the same result by hitting play in place of FF a fourth time, but that is just annoying and not the way TiVo has been in the past.


----------



## moyekj

MikeOrlando said:


> For now you get the same result by hitting play in place of FF a fourth time, but that is just annoying and not the way TiVo has been in the past.


 It's been discussed in many threads now and there was even a poll on the subject. Many people like this new behavior because TiVo doesn't always properly process quick button presses of the remote so before it was too easy to overshoot 3xFF and end back at play speed and then have to press 3 times again to get back to 3xFF. Now you just press FF a bunch of times without having to be precise and can get to 3xFF every time without making a mistake. Ideally TiVo would make this a preference somewhere so people can choose the way they want it, but given a choice I much, much prefer the new behavior and I think TiVo has already mentioned it's here to stay, so get used to it or go back to Series 3 if you really don't like it.


----------



## lpwcomp

Just got 20.2 last night and things I have noticed that I don't see in the IP:
(Using the HDUI)

1. Maybe it's just me, but the progress bar appears thinner.

2. First Aired Date has been removed from the "Info" screen.

3. First press of the "Up" arrow immediately changes the resolution rather than displaying the current resolution.

4. Pressing the "Info" button while in the guide brings up the options for the highlghted show.

5. The mini guide is a mini *grid* guide.


----------



## innocentfreak

lpwcomp said:


> 1. Maybe it's just me, but the progress bar appears thinner.
> 
> 2. First Aired Date has been removed from the "Info" screen.


I definitely agree with 1.

2. I think this was just moved up to the banner portion. I swear I saw the original air date on the info screen.


----------



## lpwcomp

innocentfreak said:


> I definitely agree with 1.
> 
> 2. I think this was just moved up to the banner portion. I swear I saw the original air date on the info screen.


Just so we're clear, I am talking about the "details" (Actors, Producers, Directors, Disk Usage, etc.) screen.


----------



## lpwcomp

crxssi said:


> I am sure that has been there forever. You can even do that in the SDUI.


This is not true. It is/was available while watching "live" TV. What is _*new*_ is that, when using the HD menus, it is now available while watching a previously recorded show, which is what ADG noted.


----------



## lpwcomp

The "Live TV" channel/Info banner has "UP NEXT" at the bottom.


----------



## arw03

Very glad I checked in here to see what this was all about. I haven't had issue with my TiVo for a long while, so I haven't had need to return until now. My biggest concern was the guide setup. Previously, I had it set so the guide came up transparent over the airing program. Seemed like less of a hassle. Obviously that option being gone was a bit bothersome.

But, without stopping here, I never would've known about this mini guide thing by pressing Select. Just as effective, I suppose, since my My Channels list isn't terribly long.

Also, it's definitely great that menu transitions are a little smoother and quicker using HDUI.

3.2.2 bothers me a little bit, but not enough to hate this or anything.

Aside from the guide thing, I think the worst part to adjust to is just going to be the font changes. Everything looks smaller, but it does seem a little more crisp, so shouldn't be much of a problem.


----------



## sbiller

This TCF reader did a great job walking through the complete UI. His commentary is pretty good as well!






I'm not sure I've seen the lack of HD labels in the guide mentioned as a change (negative).


----------



## crxssi

lpwcomp said:


> This is not true. It is/was available while watching "live" TV. What is _*new*_ is that, when using the HD menus, it is now available while watching a previously recorded show, which is what ADG noted.


You need to quote more of what you were replying to, since I don't know what you are referencing...


----------



## crxssi

lpwcomp said:


> The "Live TV" channel/Info banner has "UP NEXT" at the bottom.


Good catch. Added as 3.1.3.3


----------



## crxssi

lpwcomp said:


> Just got 20.2 last night and things I have noticed that I don't see in the IP: (Using the HDUI)
> 
> 1. Maybe it's just me, but the progress bar appears thinner.


Added to 3.1.10



> 2. First Aired Date has been removed from the "Info" screen.


Need more info/confirmation. I do not see a first aired date on anything, but I do not know if that is something new...



> 3. First press of the "Up" arrow immediately changes the resolution rather than displaying the current resolution.


Added as 3.1.17



> 4. Pressing the "Info" button while in the guide brings up the options for the highlghted show.


Added as 3.1.2.8



> 5. The mini guide is a mini *grid* guide.


Edited 3.1.14


----------



## CoxInPHX

ADG said:


> I don't recall that with the previous software I could watch a recorded show and bring up the info bar and see what is being recorded on the other channels, but now I can. Nice feature. And if it DID exist before I guess I missed it.





crxssi said:


> I am sure that has been there forever. You can even do that in the SDUI.





lpwcomp said:


> This is not true. It is/was available while watching "live" TV. What is _*new*_ is that, when using the HD menus, it is now available while watching a previously recorded show, which is what ADG noted.





crxssi said:


> *You need to quote more of what you were replying to, since I don't know what you are referencing*...


Does this help, I listed the comments and responses in order.

Prior to 20.2 and in the current SDUI the Info Bar does not list the current tuner positions, while playing back a recording.
Listing Tuners in the Info Bar during playback is a New item with 20.2 HDUI.


----------



## WillH

I would just like to say that the 20.2 is a HUGE step in the right direction. I have only had it for a few days and in my opinion, this is the firmware we should have had all along.

I have put up with the buggy software since the Premiere came out in April 2010 and have hung in there thinking they would eventually fix things. However, the past year or so I was of the opinion change was going to be slow at best. Tivo didn't seem to care. They certainly weren't on top of things telling us positive things were about to come. Introducing the 4 tuner Premiere seemed odd since the software was still incomplete.

It really is too bad that this software is only now coming out because I am sure there are thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of Premieres that have been returned to retailers due to the buggy and incomplete software. 

It is also a good thing that the box hardware has been relatively troublefree - if they had massive hardware AND software issues, who knows where we would be now.

The latest version gives me reason to believe Tivo will continue to work on this software in a big way and we might even see V30.X pretty soon too. We can only guess what may be in store.

Thanks to TIVO for finally making a big step forward here. I may now be able to recommend the Premiere to others.


----------



## jimerb

This post is excellent.

I just tried going back to the high def menus and within 10 minutes I crashed the TiVo. I had a group of shows and from the parent folder I displayed upcoming shows. A blank pop up appeared and then it crashed back to the thx menu.

Sigh.... I've never seen my TiVo so buggy in the 10 years I've had one.


----------



## crxssi

CoxInPHX said:


> Does this help, I listed the comments and responses in order.
> 
> Prior to 20.2 and in the current SDUI the Info Bar does not list the current tuner positions, while playing back a recording.
> Listing Tuners in the Info Bar during playback is a New item with 20.2 HDUI.


Thanks, I misunderstood and that cleared helped tremendously.

Added 3.1.3.4


----------



## btwyx

We just got 20.2, we seem to be late to the party. What I don't like, and no one seems to have commented on this, is that when I start playing a show (or go to live TV) the medium banner comes up. It used to be I'd get the large banner, now if I want that I have to hit the info button as well. This is a negative.

I can't say I like the new look of the SDUI, it looks like a cartoon.

I don't like the new guide, I liked the old semi transparent one.

I'm not fond of the subtitles on the suggestions bar, they just look dorky.

They seem to have fixed the bug where 480i programs weren't being played in 480p. (I have 480p, 720p, 1080i selected, I want 480i played as 480p and everything else in its native resolution. Previously on the elite it'd play 480i as 1080i, which my display can't zoom.)

When I got the upgrade, it reverted my preference for not showing the video window in the menus.

Notes:

I suppose the medium banner should now be called the small banner as the small banner is no more.

I know that it used to be the banner that came up was the one (small, medium, large) you'd selected. I've always selected the large banner.


----------



## btwyx

crxssi said:


> 3.1.17 Pressing the up *arrow during playback* shows the current resolution and changes resolution on the first press, where before it just displayed it and required additional presses to change. (Not necessarily a positive, although it requires less key presses).


It doesn't do that on my Elite, it works the way it always did. One press brings up the resolution, further presses change the resolution.


----------



## moyekj

btwyx said:


> It doesn't do that on my Elite, it works the way it always did. One press brings up the resolution, further presses change the resolution.


+1 on Premiere units. First up press shows current res, further up presses toggles among the choices you set just as always.


----------



## wmcbrine

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but the size given in the extended info (select program from NPL, then Info) is low, by a factor of a hundred. This is with the SDUI -- the HDUI displays it correctly.

Also, some corrections, at least insofar as these two are based on my reports, as I think they are:



> 1.2.5 There are some metadata issues with programs transferred via network to the TiVo. Further, there are some reports of failure of the TiVo to accept a push back of a program pulled off of it, even in a .TiVo format file.


It's the metadata which doesn't get pushed back. The program itself is still accepted.

The exact nature of the bug is that what I call the "extended metadata" -- which is the metadata that's only conveyed via a TiVoVideoDetails request, or the equivalent data in a .TiVo file -- is being completely ignored. Only the basic metadata from a QueryContainer request is being copied.

The extended metadata is not displayed while browsing network shares, either, _except_ with actual TiVos -- surprisingly, it _does_ appear there. But it still is not transferred via MRV. (I had mentioned earlier that it appeared to work TiVo-to-TiVo, but I can now clarify that that's only while browsing. Of course MRV transfers have left out metadata for some time, and even computer-to-TiVo transfers had already been missing some fields, _except_ with .TiVo files. But the loss is much more complete now, and .TiVo files don't help.)



> 1.2.6 HME (Home Media Engine SDK) programs using Bview transparency can lead to incorrect text display or even crashing of the Premiere. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb....php?p=8908963


It's not limited to "Bview" transparency; that's just what moyekj first noticed. Bviews are a Bananas thing. This bug shows up even with an HME for Python app, which doesn't use Bananas or the Java SDK at all. I haven't fully characterized the bug yet, though.

Also, I have no real reason to assume that the crash (only one, so far) was related to the transparency bug. I would just note this as a separate entry, something like "HME apps can completely crash the TiVo." So far, I haven't reproduced it, but even once was bad.


----------



## lpwcomp

moyekj said:


> +1 on Premiere units. First up press shows current res, further up presses toggles among the choices you set just as always.


Just tried it again and now it works as before - first press displays current resolution. I know I tried it multiple times before reporting it. Maybe my Premiere hates me.


----------



## lpwcomp

It is possible to cancel a recording other than the "next" recording when using the HD menus w/o going to the to-do list: Guide->Select show->Season Pass & other options->Upcoming->Select showing you want to cancel->Cancel this recording.

I think the difference in the way it used to work and still works in the SD menus is that now when you you select a showing that is not the next showing, you are given a generic description and the option to modify the *next* recording. The first three steps were always necessary. "Clear" from the guide never canceled a recording.


----------



## txporter

wmcbrine said:


> I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but the size given in the extended info (select program from NPL, then Info) is low, by a factor of a hundred. This is with the SDUI -- the HDUI displays it correctly.


I noticed this as well. I only use SDUI. My pushes mp4 files are small, but not the 0.00 GB that is reported.


----------



## Sadara

I got the update on my Premiere Elite some time the night before last. I like it so far. It's taking a bit of getting used to, but I like it. The changes work for me and so far I haven't personally seen anything that I "lost" or is an issue. 

I have noticed thought that all of my HD menus are snappier than before. They all use to be a little slow, as in, I could see the 1 to 2 second delay. It wasn't horrible, but slightly annoying and that is gone right now. Which makes me very happy.


----------



## hunter69

The new update has been working great on my Premiere. But along with the update I picked up allot of drive noise at the same time. If I am recording something and watching something else it is much much louder that it was before. I guess my drive may be going bad, but it is strange that it happened exactly when the software update was installed.

Has anyone else had any issues?


----------



## lpwcomp

wmcbrine said:


> The exact nature of the bug is that what I call the "extended metadata" -- which is the metadata that's only conveyed via a TiVoVideoDetails request, or the equivalent data in a .TiVo file -- is being completely ignored. Only the basic metadata from a QueryContainer request is being copied.
> 
> The extended metadata is not displayed while browsing network shares, either, _except_ with actual TiVos -- surprisingly, it _does_ appear there. But it still is not transferred via MRV. (I had mentioned earlier that it appeared to work TiVo-to-TiVo, but I can now clarify that that's only while browsing. Of course MRV transfers have left out metadata for some time, and even computer-to-TiVo transfers had already been missing some fields, _except_ with .TiVo files. But the loss is much more complete now, and .TiVo files don't help.)


The HMO problem is more than just a metadata problem. My Premiere no longer "sees" the TD Server. Admittedly, I am running Version 2.3 of TD on a Win2K system but everything was fine until I got 20.2. TD still sees the TiVo and the TiVo still sees the pyTivo shares.


----------



## wmcbrine

That may be, but it's a separate issue from the metadata problem. I wouldn't put them together.


----------



## dalmeida

I've found an annoying bug. On my Tivo HD I used to use the upcoming showings to schedule sports game recordings for the week. On my Tivo Elite with the 20.2 HD UI aside from layering many additional menu pop ups this fails in and odd way. 

From the guide: 
1. Choose a channel.
2. Right arrow and select program
3. From the pop up menu down arrow and select Season pass and other options
4. From the options menu down arrow to Upcoming
5. Right arrow and traverse down the list to the upcoming show you want to record.
6. Press Select and yet another menu pops up with the cursor over Record this episode.
7. Right arrow and Select the options to modify the recording parameters.
8. Another pop up Recording Options menu appears.

Notice the Time & channel entry on the menu. It is the original date and time of the program in the guide where you had original selected. If you record with this menu it will record the original program not the one you chose from a list of Upcoming where you chose to modify the recording parameters.

Aside from this bug having to traverse through multiple menus this method is unwieldy where it was much more usable on the previous UI. Looks like the Wishlist is the better option when scheduling multiple events of a specific type.


----------



## cherry ghost

dalmeida said:


> I've found an annoying bug. On my Tivo HD I used to use the upcoming showings to schedule sports game recordings for the week. On my Tivo Elite with the 20.2 HD UI aside from layering many additional menu pop ups this fails in and odd way.
> 
> From the guide:
> 1. Choose a channel.
> 2. Right arrow and select program
> 3. From the pop up menu down arrow and select Season pass and other options
> 4. From the options menu down arrow to Upcoming
> 5. Right arrow and traverse down the list to the upcoming show you want to record.
> 6. Press Select and yet another menu pops up with the cursor over Record this episode.
> 7. Right arrow and Select the options to modify the recording parameters.
> 8. Another pop up Recording Options menu appears.
> 
> Notice the Time & channel entry on the menu. It is the original date and time of the program in the guide where you had original selected. If you record with this menu it will record the original program not the one you chose from a list of Upcoming where you chose to modify the recording parameters.
> 
> Aside from this bug having to traverse through multiple menus this method is unwieldy where it was much more usable on the previous UI. Looks like the Wishlist is the better option when scheduling multiple events of a specific type.


Most of this is already covered in the Changelog.

There is, however, a quicker way than how you're doing it. Don't even bother with "Upcoming". Go straight to "Record next episode" --> "options" and in the pop up menu you can scroll down to "Time & Channel". You can then right arrow to the airing you want. This will save you a step.

I still consider it a bit of a bug because there's no reason you shouldn't be able to add time to the recording selected from the guide without all these extra steps.


----------



## phone man

My premiere got the new software last night. I noticed the sdui looked a bit different. I flipped over to the hdui side and poked around a little. Not as laggy as before but still an annoying delay as I move the cursor. I'll play with it more later this evening but I have a feeling I'll be staying with the sdui. 
The Premiere was a let down as a streaming device. My Sony TV or Roku do a much better job. As an OTA only DVR with a nice program guide, the premiere can't be beat but there's nothing on the hdui I can't live without. 
KISS


----------



## crxssi

btwyx said:


> It doesn't do that on my Elite, it works the way it always did. One press brings up the resolution, further presses change the resolution.


I added 3.1.17 on trust the info was correct, since I had no way of knowing how it worked, prior, in the HDUI. Since you have another verify too, I will remove it.


----------



## crxssi

wmcbrine said:


> I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but the size given in the extended info (select program from NPL, then Info) is low, by a factor of a hundred. This is with the SDUI -- the HDUI displays it correctly.


Is this new behavior? How does it relate (or not) to 4.2?



> It's the metadata which doesn't get pushed back. The program itself is still accepted. The exact nature of the bug is that what I call the "extended metadata" ...


Attempted to clarify, although it is pretty complex to try and summarize.



> It's not limited to "Bview" transparency; that's just what moyekj first noticed. Bviews are a Bananas thing. This bug shows up even with an HME for Python app, which doesn't use Bananas or the Java SDK at all. I haven't fully characterized the bug yet, though. Also, I have no real reason to assume that the crash (only one, so far) was related to the transparency bug. I would just note this as a separate entry, something like "HME apps can completely crash the TiVo." So far, I haven't reproduced it, but even once was bad.


Edited


----------



## dalmeida

cherry ghost said:


> Most of this is already covered in the Changelog.
> .


Exactly where is this referenced? Admittedly I didn't read all 12 pages of the thread. If it is there it would be nice if someone would update the synopsis. The thread search tool is not that great IMHO.



cherry ghost said:


> There is, however, a quicker way than how you're doing it. Don't even bother with "Upcoming". Go straight to "Record next episode" --> "options" and in the pop up menu you can scroll down to "Time & Channel". You can then right arrow to the airing you want. This will save you a step.


I don't know where Record Next episode selection appears. There is nothing in the menu tree entered via the guide that I have found that has this wording.



cherry ghost said:


> I still consider it a bit of a bug because there's no reason you shouldn't be able to add time to the recording selected from the guide without all these extra steps.


True enough even if it were possible at all considering the fact that it doesn't work once you manage to traverse all the menus.


----------



## lpwcomp

dalmeida said:


> I don't know where Record Next episode selection appears. There is nothing in the menu tree entered via the guide that I have found that has this wording.


Guide->select program->Season Pass & other options


----------



## lpwcomp

I just noticed something odd. This may have been there prior to 20.2 and I just never noticed but the HDUI "Recording options" screen includes the "Quality" setting even on digital channels and it can be changed. Since I doubt that they have started re-encoding digital content, this would appear to be a bug. Could someone independently confirm this behavior so I know that my TiVo isn't just messin' with me?


----------



## wmcbrine

crxssi said:


> Is this new behavior? How does it relate (or not) to 4.2?


It's the same as 4.2. I just hadn't noticed it before.


----------



## dalmeida

lpwcomp said:


> Guide->select program->Season Pass & other options


On this menu there is:

Get This show
Upcoming
Episodes
Bonus Features
If You Like this

You mean "Episodes" not "Record next episode" that was referred to? This menu selection lists entries by date with no time or channel information. unless you select the entry and then it has the same sub menu as the Upcoming entry and the same issue I pointed out before.


----------



## lpwcomp

dalmeida said:


> On this menu there is:
> 
> Get This show
> Upcoming
> Episodes
> Bonus Features
> If You Like this


And what do you see at the bottom, slightly left of center?


----------



## bobatkins

This has been a long standing bug with Tivos going back to the Series 2. If you have even a modest Season Pass list, say 40-50 shows and decide to change the order of the shows, when you exit the Season Pass list you get a Please Wait and can go make dinner before it finishes. You can't do anything else while this is happening.

This bug is so *ridiculous* and long standing that it isn't funny anymore. A multi-GHz processor, plenty of ram and a multi-tasking Linux OS and we have to WAIT 5-10 minutes for a re-sort of the Season Pass list? Sorting is the most basic of computer programming skills! I have 145 shows in my Season Pass list and a dread having to re-order any show in that list. At the very least this should be performed in the background allowing the user to continue to watch live or pre-recorded shows.

With version 20.2, the only thing that changed was the Please Wait message - now it says, Updating the ToDo list... and just sits there for as long as 10 minutes!! This is utterly ridiculous and clearly demonstrates the minimal amount of effort that TiVo is making into their software. Keep in mind that with this latest release, 20.2, TiVo has still not activated the 2nd processor core. Simply porting the old Flash based HDUI to Adobe Air required a minimal effort at best.

I believe that the only reason we even got the 20.2 update is because of the recently released DirectTV TiVo and I suspect that TiVo has seen the DirecTV DVR and realized that a TiVo would not compare well against it (and frankly it still doesn't) without improving the HDUI.

TiVo management needs to get of their butts and get the TiVo software performance issues fixed!


----------



## lpwcomp

Performing a task in the foreground that should be done as a background task is not a bug, it is a design/implementation flaw.


----------



## innocentfreak

bobatkins said:


> This has been a long standing bug with Tivos going back to the Series 2. If you have even a modest Season Pass list, say 40-50 shows and decide to change the order of the shows, when you exit the Season Pass list you get a Please Wait and can go make dinner before it finishes. You can't do anything else while this is happening.
> 
> This bug is so *ridiculous* and long standing that it isn't funny anymore. A multi-GHz processor, plenty of ram and a multi-tasking Linux OS and we have to WAIT 5-10 minutes for a re-sort of the Season Pass list? Sorting is the most basic of computer programming skills! I have 145 shows in my Season Pass list and a dread having to re-order any show in that list. At the very least this should be performed in the background allowing the user to continue to watch live or pre-recorded shows.
> 
> With version 20.2, the only thing that changed was the Please Wait message - now it says, Updating the ToDo list... and just sits there for as long as 10 minutes!! This is utterly ridiculous and clearly demonstrates the minimal amount of effort that TiVo is making into their software. Keep in mind that with this latest release, 20.2, TiVo has still not activated the 2nd processor core. Simply porting the old Flash based HDUI to Adobe Air required a minimal effort at best.
> 
> I believe that the only reason we even got the 20.2 update is because of the recently released DirectTV TiVo and I suspect that TiVo has seen the DirecTV DVR and realized that a TiVo would not compare well against it (and frankly it still doesn't) without improving the HDUI.
> 
> TiVo management needs to get of their butts and get the TiVo software performance issues fixed!





lpwcomp said:


> Performing a task in the foreground that should be done as a background task is not a bug, it is a design/implementation flaw.


My guess is we might see this change when the Season Pass Manager is updated to HD. Currently you can already adjust the SPM in the background with other tools like TiVo.com or the iPad app so it would just be a matter of adding that functionality to the command.

If you have a windows PC, enable network support on the Premiere and download and run KMTTG. Not only is it faster and easier to adjust the season pass order, it does it all in the background while you are watching another recording on the TiVo itself. It will also allow you to backup your season passes.


----------



## gteague

innocentfreak said:


> My guess is we might see this change when the Season Pass Manager is updated to HD. Currently you can already adjust the SPM in the background with other tools like TiVo.com or the iPad app so it would just be a matter of adding that functionality to the command.
> 
> If you have a windows PC, enable network support on the Premiere and download and run KMTTG. Not only is it faster and easier to adjust the season pass order, it does it all in the background while you are watching another recording on the TiVo itself. It will also allow you to backup your season passes.


i've been waiting 6 years for tivo to fix this spm insanity and it has barely improved at all from when i started with the one of the first s3's until now with the elite and the v20.2 release. i literally can't believe tivo has let this open sore fester for so long. i was in the beta program for a couple of years and kept begging them to fix it and no one would pay attention to me or the few others who complained.

btw, currently there is a fatal bug when using the tivo.com site with the old or new release in that if you change the order of the items in sp manager the premiere and elite will immediately reboot. i think this is limited to premiere line, but not sure.

and i don't run windows, so that avenue is out as well. the only option if i don't want to wait for 15 minutes is to lock up my iphone or ipad while the function runs. i guess you could abort the app once you've sent the re-sort command, but i haven't tried that.

i have no idea what the problem is, but it shows to the customer as lazy, shoddy, unprofessional programming---exactly the sort of thing we're paying deluxe dollars to avoid.

/guy


----------



## crxssi

bobatkins said:


> Keep in mind that with this latest release, 20.2, TiVo has still not activated the 2nd processor core.


That part of your post is incorrect. The second core was activated in the PREVIOUS release, 14.9. Although this might not make any difference in performance of a single threaded operation, which the sorting might be. I warned people, seemingly forever, that turning "on" the second core is not a magic cure for performance problems. Especially when much of the performance issues most people notice are the HDUI, itself, which is presumably written in a single threaded environment. And the live, Internet-dependent elements of the UI make it far worse.



> TiVo management needs to get of their butts and get the TiVo software performance issues fixed!


More performance improvements are needed, for sure. But at least SOMETHING meaningful has changed in the last few months (just look at this change log). Something that could not really be said for the previous few YEARS.


----------



## crxssi

innocentfreak said:


> My guess is we might see this change when the Season Pass Manager is updated to HD.


Possibly. But only if they totally redesign the way it works (which would not be an outrageous expectation).



> Currently you can already adjust the SPM in the background with other tools like TiVo.com or the iPad app


You mean Android app 



> If you have a windows PC, enable network support on the Premiere and download and run KMTTG.


You mean a Linux computer. Or perhaps a Mac computer. Or even an MS-Windows computer (Hint: KMTTG is not an MS-Windows-only program.)


----------



## crxssi

gteague said:


> and i don't run windows,


Thank goodness



> so that avenue is out as well.


KTMMG and PyTiVO (and others) run just as well on Linux and MacOS.


----------



## innocentfreak

crxssi said:


> Possibly. But only if they totally redesign the way it works (which would not be an outrageous expectation).
> 
> You mean Android app
> 
> You mean a Linux computer. Or perhaps a Mac computer. Or even an MS-Windows computer (Hint: KMTTG is not an MS-Windows-only program.)


I think they will redesign it. I think if they don't they will be missing a huge opportunity to simplify the process for hose who want it. I can't tell you how many TiVo users I know and DVR users in general I have had to tell how to optimally manage the list.

I never used the Android or iPhone app so I wasn't sure if they included it.

I must be thinking of another program that is Windows only then. Good to know.


----------



## mattmaddux

lpwcomp said:


> I just noticed something odd. This may have been there prior to 20.2 and I just never noticed but the HDUI "Recording options" screen includes the "Quality" setting even on digital channels and it can be changed. Since I doubt that they have started re-encoding digital content, this would appear to be a bug. Could someone independently confirm this behavior so I know that my TiVo isn't just messin' with me?


I can confirm mine is doing the same thing, but ONLY for standard def channels. It worried me that the update had made it revert to the analog channel. Are you also noticing that it's only on SD channels?


----------



## lpwcomp

mattmaddux said:


> I can confirm mine is doing the same thing, but ONLY for standard def channels. It worried me that the update had made it revert to the analog channel. Are you also noticing that it's only on SD channels?


Nope. Happens on all channels for me, including HD ones. However, I just now scheduled one to record, setting quality to "Basic". When I then tried to change the options for that recording, quality was set to "digital" and of course couldn't be changed. I just looked at an HD recording that is scheduled for Monday as part of a Season Pass and its quality is "Basic".

Bottom line (IMNSHO), this release should only be used to record episodes of "Saturday Night Live" because it is definitely not ready for prime time. TiVo should seriously consider rolling this one back.


----------



## moyekj

lpwcomp said:


> Nope. Happens on all channels for me, including HD ones. However, I just now scheduled one to record, setting quality to "Basic". When I then tried to change the options for that recording, quality was set to "digital" and of course couldn't be changed. I just looked at an HD recording that is scheduled for Monday as part of a Season Pass and its quality is "Basic".
> 
> Bottom line (IMNSHO), this release should only be used to record episodes of "Saturday Night Live" because it is definitely not ready for prime time. TiVo should seriously consider rolling this one back.


 It's not a big deal and nowhere near a showstopper. For digital channels that setting is irrelevant so you shouldn't care what it's set to. For Elite machines it's even more irrelevant since those machines don't even have encoders and can't record from analog channels. i.e. It won't affect your recording quality at all so it's basically a don't care.


----------



## lpwcomp

moyekj said:


> It's not a big deal and nowhere near a showstopper. For digital channels that setting is irrelevant so you shouldn't care what it's set to. For Elite machines it's even more irrelevant since those machines don't even have encoders and can't record from analog channels. i.e. It won't affect your recording quality at all so it's basically a don't care.


I agree that this is not that big an issue. You don't actually think I was basing my opinion solely on this, do you? If it has these obvious problems, what problems are there that aren't obvious? Overall, I think this release has serious flaws.


----------



## btwyx

bobatkins said:


> This has been a long standing bug with Tivos going back to the Series 2. If you have even a modest Season Pass list, say 40-50 shows and decide to change the order of the shows, when you exit the Season Pass list you get a Please Wait and can go make dinner before it finishes. You can't do anything else while this is happening.
> 
> This bug is so *ridiculous* and long standing that it isn't funny anymore.


Its a lot better than it used to be. It used to take 40 minutes to rearrange my season pass list, now it "only" takes about 5 min. I used to only do it just before going to bed. I can't remember when it got better.

These days you can reorder your season passes on the web.


----------



## L David Matheny

bobatkins said:


> This has been a long standing bug with Tivos going back to the Series 2. If you have even a modest Season Pass list, say 40-50 shows and decide to change the order of the shows, when you exit the Season Pass list you get a Please Wait and can go make dinner before it finishes. You can't do anything else while this is happening.
> 
> This bug is so *ridiculous* and long standing that it isn't funny anymore. A multi-GHz processor, plenty of ram and a multi-tasking Linux OS and we have to WAIT 5-10 minutes for a re-sort of the Season Pass list? Sorting is the most basic of computer programming skills! I have 145 shows in my Season Pass list and a dread having to re-order any show in that list. At the very least this should be performed in the background allowing the user to continue to watch live or pre-recorded shows.
> 
> With version 20.2, the only thing that changed was the Please Wait message - now it says, Updating the ToDo list... and just sits there for as long as 10 minutes!!


Just sorting the Season Pass list would only take a second or two. The time-consuming operation is scanning through two weeks of schedule data for all your channels and reevaluating recording priorities and re-resolving recording conflicts. It may be rebuilding the To Do List from scratch. All of that involves some processing. It would be nice if it could be handed off to a background process, of course. Maybe they could just defer any display of the To Do List until the background process completes.


----------



## gteague

crxssi said:


> Thank goodness
> 
> KTMMG and PyTiVO (and others) run just as well on Linux and MacOS.


thanks for that info, i didn't know that. i run ubuntu under vmware on mac, so i'll fire that up and try those out.

/guy


----------



## astrohip

lpwcomp said:


> I agree that this is not that big an issue. You don't actually think I was basing my opinion solely on this, do you? If it has these obvious problems, what problems are there that aren't obvious? Overall, *I think this release has serious flaws.*


What do you see as the mission-critical flaws that would require a rollback?


----------



## crxssi

gteague said:


> thanks for that info, i didn't know that. i run ubuntu under vmware on mac, so i'll fire that up and try those out.


You will love both of them. I highly recommend you check them out. I, of course, use Linux. But you can run them natively under MacOS, too (no need for using under a virtual machine, unless you just like to experiment). KTTMG is primarily for pulling stuff off the TiVo, but has tons of other useful features like a remote, ability to backup your season passes, background reordering of season passes, etc. I do end up using PyTiVo the most, however (to send stuff TO the TiVo to play).


----------



## lpwcomp

crxssi said:


> You will love both of them. I highly recommend you check them out. I, of course, use Linux. But you can run them natively under MacOS, too (no need for using under a virtual machine, unless you just like to experiment). KTTMG is primarily for pulling stuff off the TiVo, but has tons of other useful features like a remote, ability to backup your season passes, background reordering of season passes, etc. I do end up using PyTiVo the most, however (to send stuff TO the TiVo to play).


How about the fact that my Premiere can no longer access the TiVo Desktop server? Yes, I now I can use pyTivo and I do but

a. pyTivo isn't the officially supported solution.

b. The metadata problem has, from my viewpoint, partially crippled all transfers.

Finally, the fact that there are all of these obvious problems says to me at least that this release was rushed out the door w/o sufficient testing, probably to fix the "real" problems with the Elite s/w and to get MRS out the door. BTW, while I have no data to support it, I suspect that the changes to implement MRS are the source of the transfer issues.

I don't really expect TiVo to back out this change and I've mostly been seeking work-arounds for the problems. I guess I'm just venting my frustration here. Living up to my own sig line.


----------



## crxssi

lpwcomp said:


> How about the fact that my Premiere can no longer access the TiVo Desktop server?


Well, I can't comment to that. Since TiVo Desktop is closed, proprietary, and not available for Linux, I have never used it, never will, and never pay attention to it. I suspect you might have a network or settings issue, but that would be something better to investigate in a different thread.



> Yes, I now I can use pyTivo and I do but a. pyTivo isn't the officially supported solution. b. The metadata problem has, from my viewpoint, partially crippled all transfers.


Being "officially supported" doesn't necessarily mean it will operate better, provide more or better features, perform as well, or even bring reasonable support from the provider. In my case, I really don't care much about the metadata, since I just want to watch some stuff I might have on my computer from the TiVo. But I know it frustrates some users.



> Finally, the fact that there are all of these obvious problems says to me at least that this release was rushed out the door w/o sufficient testing, probably to fix the "real" problems with the Elite s/w and to get MRS out the door. BTW, while I have no data to support it, I suspect that the changes to implement MRS are the source of the transfer issues.


We could say that about nearly all the releases. I am grateful they are finally pushing out useful updates that contain real improvements, even if it means there will be some bugs/issues. Hopefully, some people at TiVo monitor the changelog and notice that we find the improvements and the bugs and will keep carrying them over, keeping them visible 



> I don't really expect TiVo to back out this change and I've mostly been seeking work-arounds for the problems. I guess I'm just venting my frustration here. Living up to my own sig line.


That's OK. We all have frustrations.


----------



## morac

innocentfreak said:


> My guess is we might see this change when the Season Pass Manager is updated to HD. Currently you can already adjust the SPM in the background with other tools like TiVo.com or the iPad app so it would just be a matter of adding that functionality to the command.


What's odd with the iPad app is that instead of getting the 5 minute wait on the box, you get a 5 minute wait in the app. I'd be curious as to what happens if you exit the app during this time, but I've never gotten up the nerve to try this.

I'm guessing the wait in the tivo.com SPM is simply not visible.


----------



## innocentfreak

morac said:


> What's odd with the iPad app is that instead of getting the 5 minute wait on the box, you get a 5 minute wait in the app. I'd be curious as to what happens if you exit the app during this time, but I've never gotten up the nerve to try this.
> 
> I'm guessing the wait in the SPM is simply not visible.


I think it still goes through, but it has been a while since I used the iPad to do it.. KMTTG essentially acts the same way and it will time out on me due to the high number of season passes but the changes go through.


----------



## wmcbrine

The metadata thing was demoralizing for me, since I'd _just_ (literally only hours before I got 20.2) got metadata where I wanted it -- finally working around a longstanding TiVo-side bug, by generating fake .TiVo headers for every file. And then 20.2 comes along, and breaks metadata worse than it's ever been broken before. And I can just picture this never getting fixed, either.


----------



## lpwcomp

wmcbrine said:


> The metadata thing was demoralizing for me, since I'd _just_ (literally only hours before I got 20.2) got metadata where I wanted it -- finally working around a longstanding TiVo-side bug, by generating fake .TiVo headers for every file. And then 20.2 comes along, and breaks metadata worse than it's ever been broken before. And I can just picture this never getting fixed, either.


I was hoping that this latest TiVo s/w change in conjunction with your change to pyTivo would enable (with some minor mods) the sending of the program level unique ID.

I am hoping that the metadata problem and the TD server problem are in fact related so that if they fix the TD problem it will fix the metadata problem. Slim hope, especially if it only affects TD 2.3.


----------



## jrm01

Don't think this was mentioned yet - could be wrong.

I am always way behind in watching Jeapordy (27 episodes in my list). I used to just select the folder, hit advance to go to the last episode in the list. After finishing it, delete and I am set to select the new, last episode.

Now when I select the folder and hit Advance it goes to the end of the options following the list. Means I have to step up four times to get the last recording. Then when I watch and delete, the cursor has returned to the top of the list and I have to repeat the process.

Would be nice if the Advance only went to the last episode, and following a delete the cursor would remain at the end.


----------



## moyekj

jrm01 said:


> Don't think this was mentioned yet - could be wrong.
> 
> I am always way behind in watching Jeapordy (27 episodes in my list). I used to just select the folder, hit advance to go to the last episode in the list. After finishing it, delete and I am set to select the new, last episode.
> 
> Now when I select the folder and hit Advance it goes to the end of the options following the list. Means I have to step up four times to get the last recording. Then when I watch and delete, the cursor has returned to the top of the list and I have to repeat the process.
> 
> Would be nice if the Advance only went to the last episode, and following a delete the cursor would remain at the end.


 Yes the extra options inside the folder in HDUI I found very annoying. The SDUI does not have them and thus much better suited for sequential episode watching. It was examples of little things like that besides the general slowness that frustrated me about HDUI and so I ended up going back to SDUI.


----------



## lpwcomp

moyekj said:


> Yes the extra options inside the folder in HDUI I found very annoying. The SDUI does not have them and thus much better suited for sequential episode watching. It was examples of little things like that besides the general slowness that frustrated me about HDUI and so I ended up going back to SDUI.


 What I'd like to see is the option to sort by record date in ascending order.


----------



## newsposter

i'm unhappy with the fade to left of the myshows screen and the circle that i never saw before. now it comes up all the time and it takes longer to get into a folder...everything is just slower.

backwards step for sure. 

to boot it locked up today then rebooted.


----------



## wmcbrine

lpwcomp said:


> I was hoping that this latest TiVo s/w change in conjunction with your change to pyTivo would enable (with some minor mods) the sending of the program level unique ID.


But the UniqueID isn't helpful unless the program is already in the TiVo's database. They expire after a while, and usually I'm transferring things that were never in there to begin with. Still, you have a point -- if I expose the UniqueID in the container data, maybe it will help in some cases.



> _Slim hope, especially if it only affects TD 2.3._


Why are you using 2.3, anyway?


----------



## lpwcomp

wmcbrine said:


> But the UniqueID isn't helpful unless the program is already in the TiVo's database. They expire after a while, and usually I'm transferring things that were never in there to begin with. Still, you have a point -- if I expose the UniqueID in the container data, maybe it will help in some cases.


Since the program ID in at least some instances is the TMS program ID (it matches the ID you see in zap2it), I'm hopeful that it will actually do something on a Premiere.



wmcbrine said:


> Why are you using 2.3, anyway?


More current versions won't run on Win2K. Can't afford to upgrade.


----------



## jrm01

lpwcomp said:


> What I'd like to see is the option to sort by record date in ascending order.


Why didn't I think of that! Better yet, why didn't TiVo think of that. Can't think of a time when there are multiple episodes in a folder that I wouldn't want to view the oldest one first.


----------



## tomm1079

bobatkins said:


> This has been a long standing bug with Tivos going back to the Series 2. If you have even a modest Season Pass list, say 40-50 shows and decide to change the order of the shows, when you exit the Season Pass list you get a Please Wait and can go make dinner before it finishes. You can't do anything else while this is happening.
> 
> This bug is so *ridiculous* and long standing that it isn't funny anymore. A multi-GHz processor, plenty of ram and a multi-tasking Linux OS and we have to WAIT 5-10 minutes for a re-sort of the Season Pass list? Sorting is the most basic of computer programming skills! I have 145 shows in my Season Pass list and a dread having to re-order any show in that list. At the very least this should be performed in the background allowing the user to continue to watch live or pre-recorded shows.
> 
> With version 20.2, the only thing that changed was the Please Wait message - now it says, Updating the ToDo list... and just sits there for as long as 10 minutes!! This is utterly ridiculous and clearly demonstrates the minimal amount of effort that TiVo is making into their software. Keep in mind that with this latest release, 20.2, TiVo has still not activated the 2nd processor core. Simply porting the old Flash based HDUI to Adobe Air required a minimal effort at best.
> 
> I believe that the only reason we even got the 20.2 update is because of the recently released DirectTV TiVo and I suspect that TiVo has seen the DirecTV DVR and realized that a TiVo would not compare well against it (and frankly it still doesn't) without improving the HDUI.
> 
> TiVo management needs to get of their butts and get the TiVo software performance issues fixed!


This is annoying. Thank god for the iPad/Android app. I do all season pass reordering through that and never have any issues.


----------



## tomm1079

innocentfreak said:


> I think they will redesign it. I think if they don't they will be missing a huge opportunity to simplify the process for hose who want it. I can't tell you how many TiVo users I know and DVR users in general I have had to tell how to optimally manage the list.
> 
> I never used the Android or iPhone app so I wasn't sure if they included it.
> 
> I must be thinking of another program that is Windows only then. Good to know.


How would you do it optimally?


----------



## crxssi

lpwcomp said:


> More current versions won't run on Win2K. Can't afford to upgrade.


Sure you can. Linux is free 

(Sorry, couldn't resist)


----------



## WillH

dalmeida said:


> On this menu there is:
> 
> Get This show
> Upcoming
> Episodes
> Bonus Features
> If You Like this
> 
> You mean "Episodes" not "Record next episode" that was referred to? This menu selection lists entries by date with no time or channel information. unless you select the entry and then it has the same sub menu as the Upcoming entry and the same issue I pointed out before.


I'm not sure I understand what is at issue here and maybe I am totally of the mark but my Premiere offers recording quality in a similar fashion and I am pretty sure this has been a feature for a long time. Get This Movie ->Record This Movie-> Options->Recording Quality

It the material is not a movie, I don't think you will always get the Recording Quality menu - I think it depends on the format and original source.

Maybe I am missing the mark here.


----------



## innocentfreak

tomm1079 said:


> How would you do it optimally?


Sunday through Saturday with local primetime shows or shows with single airings and then Sunday through Saturday with cable shows or shows with multiple airings.

If you put shows just in order of preference you risk having say a USA show record which will repeat over and over instead of a show on FOX which will air only once.


----------



## lpwcomp

WillH said:


> I'm not sure I understand what is at issue here and maybe I am totally of the mark but my Premiere offers recording quality in a similar fashion and I am pretty sure this has been a feature for a long time. Get This Movie ->Record This Movie-> Options->Recording Quality
> 
> It the material is not a movie, I don't think you will always get the Recording Quality menu - I think it depends on the format and original source.
> 
> Maybe I am missing the mark here.


It's the source, not the material that determines whether or not you have control of TiVo recording quality. In the case you cited, there are probably multiple copies in different qualities available for download. The TiVo just records the digital stream it receives. The only time the TiVo actually controls the quality of what it records is when the source is analog.


----------



## gteague

crxssi said:


> You will love both of them. I highly recommend you check them out. I, of course, use Linux. But you can run them natively under MacOS, too (no need for using under a virtual machine, unless you just like to experiment). KTTMG is primarily for pulling stuff off the TiVo, but has tons of other useful features like a remote, ability to backup your season passes, background reordering of season passes, etc. I do end up using PyTiVo the most, however (to send stuff TO the TiVo to play).


installed mac version of kttmg and thanks again for recommending it. it is useless as a download tool since virtually everything on my tivo has been flagged with drm protection, but it is priceless as an organizational tool. when i re-org'd my sp list it said it failed, but the operation succeeded. the iphone and android apps also report failures, yet succeed, so that must be an erroneous tivo error message.

back many years ago when i had replaytv there was an outstanding java app that did all this and more and actually had a pleasing interface for a java app. i no longer remember the name, but it made using and maintaining the replaytv effortless.

ok, off to tackle the python one ....

/guy


----------



## TishTash

Pressing up- and down-arrow while in detailed summary list of upcoming episodes of shows still results in a delay and "Please wait ..." screen monetarily between episodes. It is no longer the case when likewise scrolling through detailed summaries of recorded shows.


----------



## moyekj

gteague said:


> back many years ago when i had replaytv there was an outstanding java app that did all this and more and actually had a pleasing interface for a java app. i no longer remember the name, but it made using and maintaining the replaytv effortless


 DVarchive. Yes those were the good 'ole days. Replaytv was eons ahead of TiVo in many respects. That being said this RPC (iPad) protocol is a huge step in the right direction. There is little need for any management on the TiVos themselves now. Searching, scheduling, conflict management and re-scheduling on different TiVos, season pass management, etc. can all be done more efficiently via PC and can all be done away from home too (if using kmttg).


----------



## crxssi

moyekj said:


> DVarchive. Yes those were the good 'ole days. Replaytv was eons ahead of TiVo in many respects. That being said this RPC (iPad) protocol


Just a nit-pick, but Android users will confirm that RPC is not the "iPad protocol"!


----------



## gteague

installed pytivo, pytivox, ffmpeg, and streambaby and in about an hour had everything running. thanks to you guys for the tips.

yay! no more copying gigabytes of video files onto the tivo--i can just stream them directly from the mac when needed. and the gigabit ethernet port on the elite is earning it's money now!

now i have streaming and mac-based management i'll be a very happy camper when i can actually keep my tivo running for more than 24 hours at a go. we're having a conference call on tuesday and although i hope they can find something to fix, given my experience with the cable company, i doubt it.

/guy


----------



## lpwcomp

gteague said:


> if i need to start a new thread, just ask and i will, but i have what i hope is just a quick question on pytivo. i rejected installing pytivox because it looks to be nearly 2 years old and not supported anymore so i grabbed the ?wmcbrine? version of pytivo and followed the instructions on the wiki to get it installed and config'd and running.
> 
> i pointed it to my ffmpeg folder and a folder with .mov videos, but it doesn't 'see' the videos. am i going to have to convert these to some other format for tivo to see them? currently i use the tivo helper component of toast and physically copy files over, but i'd be overjoyed to be able to just stream them from the mac and watch them on the tivo. is that what pytivo does, or does it have to copy them as well? thanks in advance for any help with this app.
> 
> /guy


You don't need to start a new thread. Just post it in this thread


----------



## wmcbrine

gteague said:


> i pointed it to my ffmpeg folder


Point it to the executable file, not the folder.



> _and a folder with .mov videos, but it doesn't 'see' the videos. am i going to have to convert these to some other format for tivo to see them?_


No. Perhaps they'll appear when your ffmpeg setting is correct... if not, we'll explore that later.

As for your other question, pyTivo copies, it doesn't (yet?) stream.


----------



## gteague

sorry about that! i was posting as i was troubleshooting and figured things out on the fly. i've finally got pytivo, pytivox, and streambaby all running and can't thank you enough for your work on pytivo. i'm delighted with all the new functionality and control i have with those apps combined with kmmtg.

/guy


----------



## Innerloop

morac said:


> What's odd with the iPad app is that instead of getting the 5 minute wait on the box, you get a 5 minute wait in the app. I'd be curious as to what happens if you exit the app during this time, but I've never gotten up the nerve to try this.
> 
> I'm guessing the wait in the tivo.com SPM is simply not visible.


I think technically this wait isn't necessary on either platform, its not as if the Tivo is cranking 100% on this task. I seems more a matter of them not wanting to return the user back to the UI until they've "fixed up" the ToDo list fully to avoid showing incorrect data or something.

What would probably stress the system (or break it) would be to start a Season Pass re-do on the iPad and then go to the ToDo list or SP manager on the Tivo, and see what happens.


----------



## gteague

Innerloop said:


> What would probably stress the system (or break it) would be to start a Season Pass re-do on the iPad and then go to the ToDo list or SP manager on the Tivo, and see what happens.


i've _very deliberately_ avoided doing that. i'm certain *very bad* things would result ... [g]

/guy


----------



## newsposter

i dislike the right side of the status bar..it looks like you havent recorded all the program...the green to right side of the screen doesnt go all the way to the '1 hr' spot for instance


----------



## crxssi

newsposter said:


> i dislike the right side of the status bar..it looks like you havent recorded all the program...the green to right side of the screen doesnt go all the way to the '1 hr' spot for instance


Yeah, I find it a bit annoying too. The left side isn't any better- it is a rather large part of the bar wasted for a tiny "TiVo smile".


----------



## ShinySteelRobot

Ditto. For a minute I thought my wife had switched channels again to watch Paula Deen (or whatever) and clipped my show. But no, it turned out to be bad UI design.


----------



## gteague

i just shrugged my shoulders when i did a double-take thinking my shows were abending early. glad to hear others are as bothered by it as me--imo it's definitely a 'cosmetic bug'.

/guy


----------



## WillH

There are several little cosmetic bugs. Another one is the yellow oval highlight bar that surrounds the Play, Record, etc., on the menu doesn't line up on some screens - it is shifted down too far. Looks like a formatting error on a spreadsheet or something.

BTW, I have been using this thing for almost 2 years now and just realized that I can hit the > (Play) button while in the My Programs menu and it will immediately start playing the show. All this time I have been wading through the menu. Nice shortcut. I assume it probably has been a feature for years. I haven't played with my Premiere much due to all the upgrades that keep coming that change things and I am too old to keep remembering all this stuff.


----------



## lpwcomp

WillH said:


> BTW, I have been using this thing for almost 2 years now and just realized that I can hit the > (Play) button while in the My Programs menu and it will immediately start playing the show. All this time I have been wading through the menu. Nice shortcut. I assume it probably has been a feature for years. I haven't played with my Premiere much due to all the upgrades that keep coming that change things and I am too old to keep remembering all this stuff.


I can't guarantee that it has _*always*_ been this way, just for the 10 years that I have had one.


----------



## moyekj

WillH said:


> There are several little cosmetic bugs. Another one is the yellow oval highlight bar that surrounds the Play, Record, etc., on the menu doesn't line up on some screens - it is shifted down too far. Looks like a formatting error on a spreadsheet or something.
> 
> BTW, I have been using this thing for almost 2 years now and just realized that I can hit the > (Play) button while in the My Programs menu and it will immediately start playing the show. All this time I have been wading through the menu. Nice shortcut. I assume it probably has been a feature for years. I haven't played with my Premiere much due to all the upgrades that keep coming that change things and I am too old to keep remembering all this stuff.


 That's been there forever. Problem is when viewing Remote TiVos the shortcut doesn't work - you have to go inside program details before Play will work (initiate MRS). i.e. Consistency does not seem to be a TiVo priority these days.


----------



## ShinySteelRobot

WillH said:


> BTW, I have been using this thing for almost 2 years now and just realized that I can hit the > (Play) button while in the My Programs menu and it will immediately start playing the show.


Not only that, but if you hit Play when a folder is selected, it will sequentially play all shows inside that folder. That's a nice feature when you have a few episodes of Big Bang Theory to catch up on in one sitting.


----------



## aaronwt

So what transfer speeds are people getting with 20.2? I did some more Transfers from Elite to non XL Premiere, and from Elite to TiVo Desktop. Im still seeing low 70mb/s speeds to the non XL when prior to 20.2 it was 10 to 15 Mb/s faster. To TiVo Desktop I'm now getting low 50mb/s speeds instead of around 70mb/s speeds.

I'm just wondering if these speeds are consistent with what other people are seeing. Now that streaming is enabled I'm not transferring as much anyway. Plus I'm wondering if speeds were lowered to make it more reliable. Unlike when streaming was enabled by accident and the Premiere would reboot if you tried too many transfers and streaming.


----------



## andyf

Just hooked up MoCa between Elite and Premier. Got 67.x Mbs transfer rate. I'm amazed.

There's 2 splitters and an amplifier that data has to travel through. I've ordered another adapter to put my other Premier on MoCa.


----------



## newsposter

crxssi said:


> Yeah, I find it a bit annoying too. The left side isn't any better- it is a rather large part of the bar wasted for a tiny "TiVo smile".


i dont mind the left side for some reason but would prefer the right side 'smoosh' up against the end of the program


----------



## logicman

wmcbrine said:


> I have never seen FF behave that way. The old behavior was simply that a fourth FF press would return to Play. This involved a slight rewind as it always does with a TiVo, but not a return to the beginning of the program.
> 
> If you _want_ to get quickly to the beginning of the program, hit Rewind, then use the Advance button.


No sure if this has been mentioned but holding the Replay button will instantly go to the beginning of a recorded program.


----------



## lpwcomp

logicman said:


> No sure if this has been mentioned but holding the Replay button will instantly go to the beginning of a recorded program.


Not if you have enabled 30-sec skip.


----------



## wtherrell

AZrob said:


> Maybe I am the only one who feels this way but:
> 
> I do not agree with categorizing the new coloring of the SDUI screens (all blue) as positive. What was once an interesting, colorful and useful set of screens has now been reduced to one boring set of blue screens. It's not only boring, but you don't know as readily what menu you are in.
> 
> I am not saying we need the dancing Tivo guy back, or even the background animation. But please bring back the varying colors. Yes I know it "matches" HDUI screens now...but for those of us who still find the HDUI unacceptable (my wife prefers the larger font of SDUI for show titles and doesn't need any of the other bells and whistles) turning the SDUI into a "sea of blue" is NOT a positive change.
> 
> If others chime in and disagree with me, fine. But I think you jumped the gun on characterizing this particular change as positive.
> 
> BTW crxssi, I really appreciate you pulling together all of this info - well done!
> 
> Rob from AZ


STRONGLY disagree. The change is very positive! The varying colors and animations rendered the menus all but unreadable for me. If you must have those, maybe they could give us a choice to turn them on or off. I find the new readable menus a VERY positive change!


----------



## WillH

Got a Tivo message today stating that my software was updated today. Still appears to be the same though: 20.2-01-2-748. I have had this version for over a week now. Don't ever remember getting a Tivo message telling me my software was updated either.


----------



## lpwcomp

WillH said:


> Got a Tivo message today stating that my software was updated today. Still appears to be the same though: 20.2-01-2-748. I have had this version for over a week now. Don't ever remember getting a Tivo message telling me my software was updated either.


If it was the same message I got, it didn't say "today" and it was informing you of all the new and wonderful things in this release, maybe in the hope that you will not notice all of the flaws. I think they probably waited until all Premieres were updated before sending out the message.


----------



## crxssi

lpwcomp said:


> If it was the same message I got, it didn't say "today" and it was informing you of all the new and wonderful things in this release, maybe in the hope that you will not notice all of the flaws. I think they probably waited until all Premieres were updated before sending out the message.


Yep- they always wait for the update to be pushed to everyone, and THEN send the update message. I always thought that was extremely odd.


----------



## steve614

crxssi said:


> Yep- they always wait for the update to be pushed to everyone, and THEN send the update message. I always thought that was extremely odd.


It makes sense from a workers point of view.
If you were the "worker", which would you choose?

Worker sees block of Tivos get the update.
Worker initiates messege to that block of Tivos.
Worker sees next block of Tivos that get the update.
Worker initiates messege to those Tivos.
Etc, etc...
OR
Worker passes the time waiting until all Tivos are updated by surfing the internet and playing solitaire. Sends general messege to all Tivos once the rollout is complete.


----------



## lpwcomp

crxssi said:


> Yep- they always wait for the update to be pushed to everyone, and THEN send the update message. I always thought that was extremely odd.


To be fair, with this particular update, it makes a bit more sense as one of the changes being touted is Premiere to Premiere streaming which requires that both Premieres be at 20.2.


----------



## b_scott

andyf said:


> Just hooked up MoCa between Elite and Premier. Got 67.x Mbs transfer rate. I'm amazed.
> 
> There's 2 splitters and an amplifier that data has to travel through. I've ordered another adapter to put my other Premier on MoCa.


MoCA is awesome. I've had it for two years between my Tivos, it has always downloaded 4X faster than I could watch it, even with commercials cut. :up:

Can I just say I LOVE STREAMING LIVE TV!!!


----------



## crxssi

steve614 said:


> It makes sense from a workers point of view.
> If you were the "worker", which would you choose?
> 
> Worker sees block of Tivos get the update.
> Worker initiates messege to that block of Tivos.
> Worker sees next block of Tivos that get the update.
> Worker initiates messege to those Tivos.
> Etc, etc...
> OR
> Worker passes the time waiting until all Tivos are updated by surfing the internet and playing solitaire. Sends general messege to all Tivos once the rollout is complete.


I just think it would be better if the message, itself, were part of the update and required no "worker" work at all!


----------



## crxssi

lpwcomp said:


> To be fair, with this particular update, it makes a bit more sense as one of the changes being touted is Premiere to Premiere streaming which requires that both Premieres be at 20.2.


Good point, but they could include a message about everything else, WITH the update, then send out another message after everyone is updated.... when they actually turn on the streaming.


----------



## TiVo_Fanatic

Don't know if this applies to anything but when playing a previously recorded show on the HDUI, using the left arrow at the end of the show doesnt end said show and ask if you'd like to keep or delete it but instead continues to play what's left of it "credits" and goes back to your Now Playing / My Shows list.

I rather liked that behavior.


----------



## lpwcomp

TiVo_Fanatic said:


> Don't know if this applies to anything but when playing a previously recorded show on the HDUI, using the left arrow at the end of the show doesnt end said show and ask if you'd like to keep or delete it but instead continues to play what's left of it "credits" and goes back to your Now Playing / My Shows list.
> 
> I rather liked that behavior.


Not seeing that behavior. Still works as before. Were you perhaps not as close to the end of the actual recording as you thought you were?


----------



## mr_smits

crxssi said:


> Yeah, I find it a bit annoying too. The left side isn't any better- it is a rather large part of the bar wasted for a tiny "TiVo smile".


Agreed. This status bar needs to be adjusted so that it is immediately obvious that an entire program was recorded. As it is now, I keep thinking that part of it (beginning and end) was cut off.


----------



## TiVo_Fanatic

lpwcomp said:


> Not seeing that behavior. Still works as before. Were you perhaps not as close to the end of the actual recording as you thought you were?


It's always within the last minute / 30 seconds when I do it.

Like under the SDUI I hit left arrow it asks to keep or delete. Under HDUI the preview windows shows with it still playing and I go to my shows list.

Or if I let it run to the end the preview window comes up paused with an automatic shove to my now playing list if that makes sense.


----------



## lpwcomp

TiVo_Fanatic said:


> It's always within the last minute / 30 seconds when I do it.
> 
> Like under the SDUI I hit left arrow it asks to keep or delete. Under HDUI the preview windows shows with it still playing and I go to my shows list.
> 
> Or if I let it run to the end the preview window comes up paused with an automatic shove to my now playing list if that makes sense.


Very odd. I'm running the HDUI and, as I said, I'm not seeing this behavior.


----------



## TiVo_Fanatic

Very odd in deed because I just left arrow'd and got the keep or delete. So maybe it's a litteral timing thing where I was doing it a second to soon or something, I dunno but here's hopin it keeps working.


----------



## lpwcomp

TiVo_Fanatic said:


> Very odd in deed because I just left arrow'd and got the keep or delete. So maybe it's a litteral timing thing where I was doing it a second to soon or something, I dunno but here's hopin it keeps working.


At least it didn't get added to the first post as my report of the changed behavior of the up arrow did. It went away as soon as someone else reported it wasn't happening to them.


----------



## crxssi

lpwcomp said:


> At least it didn't get added to the first post as my report of the changed behavior of the up arrow did. It went away as soon as someone else reported it wasn't happening to them.




Sometimes I jump the gun a little too fast


----------



## WillH

mr_smits said:


> Agreed. This status bar needs to be adjusted so that it is immediately obvious that an entire program was recorded. As it is now, I keep thinking that part of it (beginning and end) was cut off.


While we are at it, has anyone noted it would be good to have the status bar change to LIVE or something like that when you actually catch up with the program that you are recording and watching at the same time? Would save me a bunch of skip forward key presses to make sure I am actually at the end of the recording and now watching live.


----------



## Innerloop

lpwcomp said:


> Not seeing that behavior. Still works as before. Were you perhaps not as close to the end of the actual recording as you thought you were?


Pretty sure the poster was just confused and was actually watching the end of a show which was started as a live recording buffer. When you reach the end of those it can look very similar but does not offer Delete unless it was literally launched from My Shows.


----------



## TiVo_Fanatic

Innerloop said:


> Pretty sure the poster was just confused and was actually watching the end of a show which was started as a live recording buffer. When you reach the end of those it can look very similar but does not offer Delete unless it was literally launched from My Shows.


Actually, what I was watching was started from My Shows... it like I said before might be a litteral timing thing where it has to happen within a certain timeframe and maybe I did it a second too soon or something.


----------



## lpwcomp

TiVo_Fanatic said:


> Actually, what I was watching was started from My Shows... it like I said before might be a litteral timing thing where it has to happen within a certain timeframe and maybe I did it a second too soon or something.


Or maybe, as in my case, your TiVo was "messin' wit ya" (That's my story and I'm sticking to it ).


----------



## txporter

TiVo_Fanatic said:


> Actually, what I was watching was started from My Shows... it like I said before might be a litteral timing thing where it has to happen within a certain timeframe and maybe I did it a second too soon or something.


Try this:

1. When you get to the end of the show, pause it. Then hit the left arrow. It will not ask you to keep/delete.
2. Or just left arrow when at the end of the show. It will now ask you to keep/delete.


----------



## lpwcomp

txporter said:


> Try this:
> 
> 1. When you get to the end of the show, pause it. Then hit the left arrow. It will not ask you to keep/delete.
> 2. Or just left arrow when at the end of the show. It will now ask you to keep/delete.


In what way is this relevant?


----------



## crxssi

In another thread I was reminded that the "green circle of death" was replaced with the "blue petals of death". Does anyone know if this was new to 20.2 or did that appear in 14.9???


----------



## CoxInPHX

crxssi said:


> In another thread I was reminded that the "green circle of death" was replaced with the "blue petals of death". Does anyone know if this was new to 20.2 or did that appear in 14.9???


New to 20.2. Was not part of 14.9


----------



## jrm01

mr_smits said:


> Agreed. This status bar needs to be adjusted so that it is immediately obvious that an entire program was recorded. As it is now, I keep thinking that part of it (beginning and end) was cut off.


All they would have to do is put one of the verticle, white hash marks at the beginning and the end.


----------



## crxssi

CoxInPHX said:


> New to 20.2. Was not part of 14.9


Well, to make matters worse, in another thread someone said they still seen the green circle too. That is something I have NOT encountered in the 20.2 update.


----------



## innocentfreak

crxssi said:


> Well, to make matters worse, in another thread someone said they still seen the green circle too. That is something I have NOT encountered in the 20.2 update.


Probably another case of someone not saying what UI they are using.


----------



## gteague

if that was me, i'm currently still trying the hd menus and i was in them last night when i was running some intensive kmttg task such as spm re-order or new show finder and while that was running i ran some other task on the elite directly and got a spinning circle (unsure if it was blue, blue-green, or green) for nearly 3 minutes. i promised to try to re-create those conditions so i could report for sure what it looked like, but i'm updating my os and haven't had the opportunity. i've noticed them several times since i installed kmttg over the last week although up until last night it's only been for a few seconds at most.

if you have kmttg installed and want to try to recreate it, you might start a re-order of your spm, then, with a live hd channel playing in the thumbnail start a todo list or something intensive. i wouldn't recommend doing another spm re-order though!

/guy


----------



## lpwcomp

HDUI progress bar (when playing something other than the live buffer):

In addition to being below the bar, the format of the time counter is different. Rather than being h:mm it is "n min" if less than an hour, "n hr" if exactly a multiple of an hour and "nh nm" otherwise. The total recording time at the end of the progress bar is also in the new format. Examples:

53 min
2 hr
1h 2m


----------



## jrm01

I've only had my Premier a week, and think I read thru all of this stuff, but two new negative things that I have noted:

1) When I record a sporting event I pad the time and then watch it in the Live buffer. When the game ends I use the Info button to stop the recording and then go back to My Shows to delete it. When I press Clear I get the "x" next to the recording but it just hangs there doing nothing more. If I back out to another area and come back the show is still there (X is gone). If I Select the item and then select Delete it, I get the check mark but again it just hangs there. If I back out and come back and press Play I get an error message about recording errors. If I just wait 15-20 minutes it deletes just fine.

2) I have programmed the TiVo for 30-second skip. If I hit the advance button 3-4 times quickly the first image is frozen until the skips are all done. It used to provide a new frame for each of the skips. This makes it harder to quickly move thru 3-4 minutes of commercials. Also the IR key works the same way. Hit it 3-4 times and the one frame freezes until the system catches up instead of providing a new frame for each 8 seconds.


----------



## jrm01

BTW, there seems to be one bug fix that only affects a few users. I have had a S3 and a HDXL connected to my Yamaha Receiver for four years. I always selected Video Output on the TiVo to be 1080i. However, any time I turned off the AVR that was always reset on the TiVo to 720p. I have noted at least 5-6 other users of Yamaha AVR with the same problem.

Now with the Premier when I set it to 1080i it stays that way without problems.


----------



## crxssi

jrm01 said:


> When I record a sporting event I pad the time and then watch it in the Live buffer. When the game ends I use the Info button to stop the recording and then go back to My Shows to delete it. When I press Clear I get the "x" next to the recording but it just hangs there doing nothing more. If I back out to another area and come back the show is still there (X is gone). If I Select the item and then select Delete it, I get the check mark but again it just hangs there. If I back out and come back and press Play I get an error message about recording errors. If I just wait 15-20 minutes it deletes just fine.


Actually, I am having lots of problems with trying to delete various types of programs. Several times now, I have tried to delete programs a dozen times without success and then having to PLAY the video, get an error that it could not be recorded due to a channel problem, get kicked out, then PLAY it again, which it then does without error, THEN I can delete it. It is very odd.

Your experience is remarkably similar to mine. It happened to me twice before, and it just happened to me AGAIN TONIGHT. I am adding it to the list, now.


----------



## lpwcomp

Just had a spontaneous reboot. Had recorded the last half of an episode of "The Twilight Zone" on MeTV, selected "Explore this show". It initially just began ignoring remote commands when I reached "Episodes" but eventually started responding again. The second time I tried , it again wouldn't get past "Episodes" and then after about a minute, rebooted.


----------



## btwyx

andyf said:


> Just hooked up MoCa between Elite and Premier. Got 67.x Mbs transfer rate. I'm amazed.


Sounds reasonable to me, I got 78Mb/s over wired ethernet (100Mb).


----------



## lpwcomp

jrm01 said:


> 2) I have programmed the TiVo for 30-second skip. If I hit the advance button 3-4 times quickly the first image is frozen until the skips are all done. It used to provide a new frame for each of the skips. This makes it harder to quickly move thru 3-4 minutes of commercials. Also the IR key works the same way. Hit it 3-4 times and the one frame freezes until the system catches up instead of providing a new frame for each 8 seconds.


FWIW, I am also seeing this behavior. And I agree, it has a negative effect on usability. I wondered why I was going way past where I wanted to be more often than I used to.


----------



## lpwcomp

innocentfreak said:


> Probably another case of someone not saying what UI they are using.


I'm pretty sure either circle is an HDUI effect only.


----------



## moyekj

jrm01 said:


> 2) I have programmed the TiVo for 30-second skip. If I hit the advance button 3-4 times quickly the first image is frozen until the skips are all done. It used to provide a new frame for each of the skips. This makes it harder to quickly move thru 3-4 minutes of commercials. Also the IR key works the same way. Hit it 3-4 times and the one frame freezes until the system catches up instead of providing a new frame for each 8 seconds.


 That's been a problem with Premieres all along, nothing new in 20.2 (I speculate it's a hardware/decoder issue). See the thread I started on the issue in 2010:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455499
My S3 OLED unit is superior to Premieres for 30 sec skipping.


----------



## WillH

^^

I concur...........I have always used the HDUI and this slow delete has always been an issue from day 1 ( I had mine since April 2010). To me, it is a little better now and it seems faster and more consistent with the deletion process but it still is slow and hangs sometimes. What is way better now is that it doesn't crash the Tivo when you delete a show.


----------



## aaronwt

So has anyone else confirmed my findings of slower transfer speeds with version 20.2?
Or maybe it is just slower with the Elite in the equation since I can't get 80 to 90mb/s transfer rates from my Elite any more, only low 70s. I guess I need to try some transfers between the other Premieres to see the speeds there.


----------



## logicman

lpwcomp said:


> Not if you have enabled 30-sec skip.


I confirmed last night that holding the Replay button does bring you to the beginning of a recorded show regardless of whether 30 second skip is enabled or not.


----------



## moyekj

logicman said:


> I confirmed last night that holding the Replay button does bring you to the beginning of a recorded show regardless of whether 30 second skip is enabled or not.


 Does NOT work for me on my Premiere in SDUI and HDUI. In fact doing that doesn't even skip back once. I held the replay button down for over 10 seconds and nothing.
Note that there are 2 types of 30 sec advance:
30 sec scan (enabled by default for Premiere units). In that mode pressing skip quickly scans ahead (fast FF) instead of an instant jump.
30 sec skip (enabled using SPS30S). In that mode pressing skip is an instant skip forwards
So you probably have 30 sec scan mode enabled


----------



## TishTash

I have a new twist on the end of show dance: If you are near the end of the program, pausing will bring up the "Keep or Delete?" screen way before the actual end of the show. This usually didn't occur until the very end of the show.


----------



## logicman

Thinking about it you are probably correct. I have not used 30 sec skip in the past and tried to enable it on an Elite using a slide remote but did not get the verification sounds. Not realizing it had 30 sec scan by default, when I tested it I assumed skip had been enabled.


----------



## wmcbrine

aaronwt said:


> So has anyone else confirmed my findings of slower transfer speeds with version 20.2?
> Or maybe it is just slower with the Elite in the equation since I can't get 80 to 90mb/s transfer rates from my Elite any more, only low 70s.


Yes, I see the same with a regular Premiere.


----------



## lpwcomp

TishTash said:


> I have a new twist on the end of show dance: If you are near the end of the program, pausing will bring up the "Keep or Delete?" screen way before the actual end of the show. This usually didn't occur until the very end of the show.


Not seeing that behavior either. At no point am I getting nor did I ever get "Keep or Delete" with a pause.


----------



## txporter

lpwcomp said:


> In what way is this relevant?


Sorry quoted wrong post. Should have been this one:



TiVo_Fanatic said:


> Don't know if this applies to anything but when playing a previously recorded show on the HDUI, using the left arrow at the end of the show doesnt end said show and ask if you'd like to keep or delete it but instead continues to play what's left of it "credits" and goes back to your Now Playing / My Shows list.
> 
> I rather liked that behavior.


Anyhow, if you pause and then left arrow (near end of show), it will drop you to NPL without asking to Keep or Delete. Left arrow without pausing first (near end of show) will ask as it always did.


----------



## morac

txporter said:


> Anyhow, if you pause and then left arrow (near end of show), it will drop you to NPL without asking to Keep or Delete. Left arrow without pausing first (near end of show) will ask as it always did.


I'm pretty sure that's not new in 20.2. I do know it changed a while back, but I'm not sure which software version it was. It could be around the same time where they made it so you can use trick play (i.e. rewind or instant replay) to get out of the "Keep/Delete" prompt.


----------



## crxssi

wmcbrine said:


> [network speed]Yes, I see the same with a regular Premiere.


I went to add it, only to find I had already done so- 1.2.7. But I added a quick estimate of 12%


----------



## TiVo_Fanatic

Since the main posts list 20.2 bugs and what not I thought I would throw this out there.

This just a minute ago happened to me, grant it it's the first time but still.

Any way, I'm using the HDUI which I don't know if it matters but I was watching 1 channel, and have been for the past hr or so and for some weird reason just got pushed to another. Remotes off to my side with nothing around it so it wasnt a butt dial like some might do with a phone in the back pocket.


----------



## wmcbrine

I think that's just the TiVo switching automatically to record a Suggestion. It will do that without prompting if you've gone long enough without touching the remote. (Not new.)


----------



## TiVo_Fanatic

wmcbrine said:


> I think that's just the TiVo switching automatically to record a Suggestion. It will do that without prompting if you've gone long enough without touching the remote. (Not new.)


That would be fine if I had suggestions on and one of the red rings lit up. Besides that, even if I did have suggestions on and a red ring did light up, it would have switched over on one of the "hidden" tuners since at the time of the incident all tuners were available.


----------



## lpwcomp

txporter said:


> Sorry quoted wrong post. Should have been this one:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by TiVo_Fanatic View Post
> Don't know if this applies to anything but when playing a previously recorded show on the HDUI, using the left arrow at the end of the show doesnt end said show and ask if you'd like to keep or delete it but instead continues to play what's left of it "credits" and goes back to your Now Playing / My Shows list.
> 
> I rather liked that behavior.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, if you pause and then left arrow (near end of show), it will drop you to NPL without asking to Keep or Delete. Left arrow without pausing first (near end of show) will ask as it always did.
Click to expand...

I understood that was what you were referring to. The problem is that your post is still not relevant since it doesn't account for the behavior he described. If you pause it, it will stay paused. It won't continue to play.


----------



## b_scott

there seems to no longer be a way to enter the quick clear code. Since select brings up the mini guide. I guess this is gone for good?


----------



## gteague

you can still enter it from a suitable showcase item or from the sd menus but you have to have one of the ads that show up on pause. i've been waiting for such a situation for nearly 4 days now. i posted in another thread asking anyone to tell me about a program i could record that had the ads, but i don't know if they're attached to specific programs or if they're served on the fly from the tivo servers. perhaps that's why they had the emergency maintenance last night--they lost the ability to serve ads!

/guy


----------



## lpwcomp

HDUI: Something I just noticed - When in the full guide, part of the bottom of the video window is taken up by the channel identifier(number and name).


----------



## sbiller

Hi Crxssi,

Please add the Amazon VOD Macroblocking (Pixelation) issue to the unsesolved/Carry-Over list.

Margret has acknowledged that a fix will be in beta test shortly and should be rolled-out in the spring update.

For more details see this thread --> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=467790&highlight=Amazon+pixelation&page=3

Thanks!
~Sam


----------



## rwrountree

See the posts entitled "OTA Channel Asking for Cable Card???" and one entitled "Cable Card Message on PBS Channel". These posts and replies have commonality in that there was no cable connection only antenna connection and yet the cable card message has been displayed. In each case these occured when TiVo was displaying a program from a PBS channel. In one of the cases it was temporarily corrected by doing a system reset (power off). 
Also, it was observed that the recorded version of the program did not display the cable card message whereas the "live" version displayed the message. Another observation is that the "window" version of the program did not display the message.


----------



## MichaelK

morac said:


> What's odd with the iPad app is that instead of getting the 5 minute wait on the box, you get a 5 minute wait in the app. I'd be curious as to what happens if you exit the app during this time, but I've never gotten up the nerve to try this.
> 
> I'm guessing the wait in the tivo.com SPM is simply not visible.


I use chrome browser (on windows) and the wait on tivo.com is noticeable. It comes up with a "Loading" spinner for fives or tens of seconds every time you reorder a single item. I don't know why it can't at least let me move everything then hit a commit button or something and then do it's thing....


----------



## aaronwt

MichaelK said:


> I use chrome browser (on windows) and the wait on tivo.com is noticeable. It comes up with a "Loading" spinner for fives or tens of seconds every time you reorder a single item. I don't know why it can't at least let me move everything then hit a commit button or something and then do it's thing....


It's only up for two to three seconds for me in Chrome.

IE9 also seems to take two to three seconds for me.


----------



## wmcbrine

In the SDUI, under 20.2, sometimes (often) the TiVo gets into a state where it won't delete programs from the NPL if you press "Clear"; instead, it gives an error bong. The programs can still be deleted from their details menus, and the condition can be cleared by going to TiVo Central and returning to the NPL. I haven't figured out what circumstances get it into this state.


----------



## crxssi

wmcbrine said:


> In the SDUI, under 20.2, sometimes (often) the TiVo gets into a state where it won't delete programs from the NPL if you press "Clear"; instead, it gives an error bong. The programs can still be deleted from their details menus, and the condition can be cleared by going to TiVo Central and returning to the NPL. I haven't figured out what circumstances get it into this state.


Oooh, thanks for the info and do please investigate. This sounds similar to, but not the same as, the HDUI problems with deleting programs; which has turned out to be perhaps the most annoying bug in 20.2.


----------



## L David Matheny

wmcbrine said:


> In the SDUI, under 20.2, sometimes (often) the TiVo gets into a state where it won't delete programs from the NPL if you press "Clear"; instead, it gives an error bong. The programs can still be deleted from their details menus, and the condition can be cleared by going to TiVo Central and returning to the NPL. I haven't figured out what circumstances get it into this state.


Yesterday I had an incident (Premiere, SDUI, OTA only) where the skip key failed to respond several times while playing a recording. The yellow LED flashed, but nothing happened. (As I recall) I paused, then played, and then the skip key worked again. Odd glitch.


----------



## cr33p

Is there a thread for reboot issues since the newest 20.2 update? I have had tivos since the first single tuner series 2 units and never had issues, but lately both my upgraded and stock premiere units are rebooting atleast 2-5 times daily, under all kinds of different circumstances. Im not sure were to start to troubleshoot them?


----------



## jrm01

Not a problem, but just a strange issue. My new Elite seems to frequently have 3 of its tuners on the same channel. Even more annoying is a situation that just happened. I have had Live TV on CNBC most of the day, pauising, FF throughout the day. I just got a message saying that TiVo wanted to change the channel on my active tuner to record a Suggestion. I said NO, then checked the other tuners. All 3 were inactive and tuned to the same channel. Why pick my tuner for the Suggestion when 3 other inactive tuners are on the same channel?


----------



## crxssi

cr33p said:


> Is there a thread for reboot issues since the newest 20.2 update? I have had tivos since the first single tuner series 2 units and never had issues, but lately both my upgraded and stock premiere units are rebooting atleast 2-5 times daily, under all kinds of different circumstances. Im not sure were to start to troubleshoot them?


There is mention of rebooting in lots of threads. Not sure there is any one main one, though. But for every post I see about 20.2 causing reboots, I see another saying it SOLVES reboots.


----------



## crxssi

jrm01 said:


> Not a problem, but just a strange issue. My new Elite seems to frequently have 3 of its tuners on the same channel. Even more annoying is a situation that just happened. I have had Live TV on CNBC most of the day, pauising, FF throughout the day. I just got a message saying that TiVo wanted to change the channel on my active tuner to record a Suggestion. I said NO, then checked the other tuners. All 3 were inactive and tuned to the same channel. Why pick my tuner for the Suggestion when 3 other inactive tuners are on the same channel?


I don't think that is new to 20.2. I agree that it doesn't make any sense to pick the "foreground" tuner to use to record a suggestion, when the other tuner/tuner(s) is/are not being used by something else at the same time. It doesn't do that all the time, so I don't know what logic it uses (like, maybe it always uses the "top" tuner then works down the list, or vice-versa). Since I almost never watch "live" TV, I don't have enough experience to know. But I do recall that happening to me before, when the other tuner was not busy, and did not BECOME busy when the timeslot came up (like if it wanted to record TWO suggestions at once, or there was something else already scheduled).

If I did see something "live" that I wanted to watch, I would press "record" to grab it. Of course, since the TiVo only has a 30 min buffer, if they program was more than 30 min over, I would miss part of it by pressing "record" and have to search for the next airing.


----------



## Thunderclap

Haven't had a reboot yet on mine. Knock on wood.


----------



## MichaelK

jrm01 said:


> Not a problem, but just a strange issue. My new Elite seems to frequently have 3 of its tuners on the same channel. Even more annoying is a situation that just happened. ...


if i recall the 2 tuner boxes would revert to both tuners on the same channel at reboot. i wonder if your box is rebooting and actually putting all 4 tuners to the same channel but then it flips off one channel for a suggestion/recording/or live tv viewing?

I haven't noticed that on mine- but others are apparently seeing reboots.

(If mine was rebooting when no one around I'd likely not notice- with the kids show SP's on it it quickly starts recording a million pbs kids, nick, disney, etc shows and probably flips channels rapidly- the 4 red lights are on what seems like ALL the time)


----------



## morac

MichaelK said:


> if i recall the 2 tuner boxes would revert to both tuners on the same channel at reboot. i wonder if your box is rebooting and actually putting all 4 tuners to the same channel but then it flips off one channel for a suggestion/recording/or live tv viewing?


That's one way to end up on all the same tuners. Another is to have suggestions turn on. When a suggestion is finished recording, the TiVo reverts to the channel it was on prior to changing to record the suggestion. This goes back to the single tuner days and the problem is that it only remembers the last channel, so if 4 suggestions are recording simultaneously, the tuners will all change to the same channel when done.


----------



## wmcbrine

Thanks morac, that explains a lot.


----------



## crxssi

morac said:


> That's one way to end up on all the same tuners. Another is to have suggestions turn on. When a suggestion is finished recording, the TiVo reverts to the channel it was on prior to changing to record the suggestion. This goes back to the single tuner days and the problem is that it only remembers the last channel, so if 4 suggestions are recording simultaneously, the tuners will all change to the same channel when done.


I had no idea it did that. I always thought it left the tuner on whatever channel was last used OR recorded. Never paid it much attention, though.


----------



## morac

crxssi said:


> I had no idea it did that. I always thought it left the tuner on whatever channel was last used OR recorded. Never paid it much attention, though.


For user scheduled recordings (manual, SP, ARWL) it does stay on the channel last used or recorded. Only suggestions change back. I believe that was done because people would leave the TiVo on a specific channel when going to bed only to find it on another one in the morning. It worked well back when there was only one tuner, but the algorithm was never updated for multiple tuners (I.e., it only remembers one channel). It happens on two tuner boxes, but is a lot more noticeable on the Elite since people really notice when 4 tuners are all on the same channel. The more user scheduled recordings there are, the less likely it is to find the box in that state.

Obviously people who turn off suggestions don't have this problem. If it happens in that case, it's nearly certain to have been caused by a reboot.


----------



## cr33p

crxssi said:


> There is mention of rebooting in lots of threads. Not sure there is any one main one, though. But for every post I see about 20.2 causing reboots, I see another saying it SOLVES reboots.


Agreed!! My wife wants to throw these things out the door, at first I thought it was the 1.5tb drive having issues with corrupted data being written to the other partition for the update, but both are being big POS! Hopefully the spring update is truly a spring update


----------



## cr33p

wmcbrine said:


> In the SDUI, under 20.2, sometimes (often) the TiVo gets into a state where it won't delete programs from the NPL if you press "Clear"; instead, it gives an error bong. The programs can still be deleted from their details menus, and the condition can be cleared by going to TiVo Central and returning to the NPL. I haven't figured out what circumstances get it into this state.


I have the same issue all the time as well, it seems to persist more with transferred shows from pytivo


----------



## WillH

Not sure if this has been reported (I scanned but couldn't find in this thread) but when I do a SEARCH and then GET SEASON PASS, it will always default to the OTA channel number and I don't have an option to select which channel. For instance, searching for SURVIVOR will bring up 46-1 which is a local OTA high def station here in Atlanta for CBN. I prefer it record on 809 which is the hi-def cable channel for CBS. It seems to always default to the lowest channel. It does not give me the option to change the channel - the search will always bring up the lowest number and it is fixed.

If instead of using the Search feature to find the show and get a season pass, if I actually locate the show in the Guide on the channel I wish to record from, and hit record and GET A SEASON PASS, it still defaults to the 46-1 channel and that is what it wants to set the pass for despite my clicking record from the 809 channel in the guide. From here, I have to go ahead and get the season pass and save it but I then have to go back in and change the channel number from within the OPTIONS in the season pass. 

In the past, it would even default to a SD channel since they were always the lowest channel number on Comcast's channel lineup. I have since deleted all my SD channels from the Tivo lineup so I assume it would still do this now.

It would be fine like it is if it would allow me to select the channel when I am selecting the season pass on the first go through. Why do I have to save it to a channel I don't want it to record from and then go back and change it? This is a lot of wasted time and key clicks. I could block all my redundant OTA channels but I sometimes watch them.

Those of you not using the OTA channels or have them blocked may not have this issue but it seems worse now with the new firmware.


----------



## cherry ghost

WillH said:


> Not sure if this has been reported (I scanned but couldn't find in this thread) but when I do a SEARCH and then GET SEASON PASS, it will always default to the OTA channel number and I don't have an option to select which channel. For instance, searching for SURVIVOR will bring up 46-1 which is a local OTA high def station here in Atlanta for CBN. I prefer it record on 809 which is the hi-def cable channel for CBS. It seems to always default to the lowest channel. It does not give me the option to change the channel - the search will always bring up the lowest number and it is fixed.
> 
> If instead of using the Search feature to find the show and get a season pass, if I actually locate the show in the Guide on the channel I wish to record from, and hit record and GET A SEASON PASS, it still defaults to the 46-1 channel and that is what it wants to set the pass for despite my clicking record from the 809 channel in the guide. From here, I have to go ahead and get the season pass and save it but I then have to go back in and change the channel number from within the OPTIONS in the season pass.
> 
> In the past, it would even default to a SD channel since they were always the lowest channel number on Comcast's channel lineup. I have since deleted all my SD channels from the Tivo lineup so I assume it would still do this now.
> 
> It would be fine like it is if it would allow me to select the channel when I am selecting the season pass on the first go through. Why do I have to save it to a channel I don't want it to record from and then go back and change it? This is a lot of wasted time and key clicks. I could block all my redundant OTA channels but I sometimes watch them.
> 
> Those of you not using the OTA channels or have them blocked may not have this issue but it seems worse now with the new firmware.


When you initially set the the SP, you should be able to go to options and change the channel there.


----------



## lpwcomp

cherry ghost said:


> When you initially set the the SP, you should be able to go to options and change the channel there.


Unless there is something peculiar to a TiVo configured with both Antenna and Cable, that is the only time you can select which channel a season pass is being recorded from. You can't can't change the channel of an an existing Season pass, at least not on the TiVo. Maybe through kmttg or the online SP manager.


----------



## cherry ghost

lpwcomp said:


> Unless there is something peculiar to a TiVo configured with both Antenna and Cable, that is the only time you can select which channel a season pass is being recorded from. You can't can't change the channel of an an existing Season pass, at least not on the TiVo. Maybe through kmttg or the online SP manager.


right, but that's not what he said



WillH said:


> Not sure if this has been reported (I scanned but couldn't find in this thread) but when I do a SEARCH and then GET SEASON PASS, it will always default to the OTA channel number and I don't have an option to select which channel. For instance, searching for SURVIVOR will bring up 46-1 which is a local OTA high def station here in Atlanta for CBN. I prefer it record on 809 which is the hi-def cable channel for CBS. It seems to always default to the lowest channel. It does not give me the option to change the channel - the search will always bring up the lowest number and it is fixed.
> 
> If instead of using the Search feature to find the show and get a season pass, if I actually locate the show in the Guide on the channel I wish to record from, and hit record and GET A SEASON PASS, it still defaults to the 46-1 channel and that is what it wants to set the pass for despite my clicking record from the 809 channel in the guide. *From here, I have to go ahead and get the season pass and save it but I then have to go back in and change the channel number from within the OPTIONS in the season pass.*
> 
> In the past, it would even default to a SD channel since they were always the lowest channel number on Comcast's channel lineup. I have since deleted all my SD channels from the Tivo lineup so I assume it would still do this now.
> 
> It would be fine like it is if it would allow me to select the channel when I am selecting the season pass on the first go through. *Why do I have to save it to a channel I don't want it to record from and then go back and change it?* This is a lot of wasted time and key clicks. I could block all my redundant OTA channels but I sometimes watch them.
> 
> Those of you not using the OTA channels or have them blocked may not have this issue but it seems worse now with the new firmware.


----------



## lpwcomp

cherry ghost said:


> right, but that's not what he said


You cannot do what he said he did. Create ("Save") the SP, _*then*_ alter the channel it is recording from.


----------



## cherry ghost

lpwcomp said:


> You cannot do what he said he did. Create ("Save") the SP, _*then*_ alter the channel it is recording from.


yea, I'm agreeing with you


----------



## lpwcomp

And I was agreeing with you. So here we are, agreeing with one another. Isn't this pleasant.

As far as the actual problem goes, I consider this a bug. It should default to the channel of the selected showing. This is similar to, though less of an annoyance, the gyrations you have to go through to record other than the next showing of something.


----------



## cherry ghost

lpwcomp said:


> And I was agreeing with you. So here we are, agreeing with one another. Isn't this pleasant.
> 
> As far as the actual problem goes, I consider this a bug. It should default to the channel of the selected showing. This is similar to, though less of an annoyance, the gyrations you have to go through to record other than the next showing of something.


Sorry, guess I misinterpreted.

And I agree it's a bug. I don't have a problem with the option to change channels if you actually select "options", but if you simply select a show from the Guide and want to create an SP with the default options, it should be created on the channel you selected from the Guide, not the channel of the next airing.


----------



## crxssi

cherry ghost said:


> Sorry, guess I misinterpreted.
> 
> And I agree it's a bug. I don't have a problem with the option to change channels if you actually select "options", but if you simply select a show from the Guide and want to create an SP with the default options, it should be created on the channel you selected from the Guide, not the channel of the next airing.


I also agree it seems like a bug. But when did it start? Is it 20.2 specific? Does it act the same in the SDUI? For now, I am adding it as 4.8


----------



## Dan203

You missed one...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8911517#post8911517

Dan


----------



## cherry ghost

crxssi said:


> I also agree it seems like a bug. But when did it start? Is it 20.2 specific? Does it act the same in the SDUI? For now, I am adding it as 4.8


Definitely HDUI specific, but not sure if it's new. I didn't use the HDUI until 20.2.


----------



## lpwcomp

cherry ghost said:


> Definitely HDUI specific, but not sure if it's new. I didn't use the HDUI until 20.2.


I'm pretty sure it is new to 20.2, with the implementation of the HDUI guide.


----------



## eddieb187

The First Aired Date on my TiVo Premiere XL is always a day behind.
Today is Feb 14. Yet new shows have First Aired Date of Feb 13?
Anyone else notice this issue?


----------



## Dan203

Are you sure the program recorded today?

I just checked a few things I recorded tonight and they all have the right original air date.

Dan


----------



## andyf

Shows in the future have OAD behind by one day. One they have been recorded the OAD fixes itself. Weird, I know.


----------



## CoxInPHX

Even on recordings the First aired: Date is always shown as one day prior to the actual First aired date. When I bring up the Info screen.

Already noted on first page:
3.2.1.8 Programs marked as "new" show their first aired date as 1 day before behind the actual date the program is airing. Also, the "new" labels will sometimes disappear when switching to/from grid style to/from live style.


----------



## ghuido

Don't know if I hit a known bug or not.

Yesterday after setting up my new TIVO Premiere Elite, i enabled Remote Network Control and started using the new Ipad App.

Scheduled a show through the App. 

After an hour when I went to check the TIVO it was stuck in the DELETE / KEEP Recorded Program Option. 

Any command sent from the remote or the Ipad software would not work. I would hear a DONG from the TIVO saying it received the command but would not do anything. Could not get pass the delete or keep recording Prompt. Had to unplug and reboot.

The TIVO is up to version 20.2

Anyone else hit something like this?


----------



## lpwcomp

CoxInPHX said:


> Even on recordings the First aired: Date is always shown as one day prior to the actual First aired date. When I bring up the Info screen.


The only time I see a problem with the OAD is in the guide data. It is correct for recorded shows and isn't there at all on the "info" screen.


----------



## CoxInPHX

lpwcomp said:


> The only time I see a problem with the OAD is in the guide data. It is correct for recorded shows and isn't there at all on the "info" screen.


This is what I am seeing. The *First aired: 2/13/12* on the right side, below the Format, is the previous date to the actual First aired date of the 14th.

Does your Info Bar not show this?


----------



## lpwcomp

CoxInPHX said:


> This is what I am seeing. The *First aired: 2/13/12* on the right side, below the Format, is the previous date to the actual First aired date of the 14th.


OK. Yeah I see that too and the OAD is off by a day. I was talking about the data in the NPL and its info screen. Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## crxssi

lpwcomp said:


> OK. Yeah I see that too and the OAD is off by a day. I was talking about the data in the NPL and its info screen. Sorry for the confusion.


That sounds like a candidate for another bug entry. The 3.2.1.8 entry is only for the guide, and this seems to also display it on the on-screen-info popup. Certainly the two are related, but shouldn't this be listed separately?

And if so, I think we need a main header to contain things related to the info popups- I think maybe 3.2.4, 3.2.7, and the proposed one should be moved there as well?

Related- it looks like 3.2.8 should also be moved under Guide issues (3.2.1.X)?

Thoughts?


----------



## xbr23

posted this in another 20.2 thread but didn't get any input or info. does anyone else notice this issue:

What I would like to see is that since I use 4 tuners sometimes by using pause, switch tuner, watch, pause, switch tuner, watch, pause.... etc. If a tuner is about to get switched by "Tivo" to record something else, give me a pop up across all tuners that a tuner is about to change. I might veto the change because I plan to go back to that channel after watching the tuner I am currently watching. Tivo will change a tuner even if it is currently paused. That just seems wrong to me.


----------



## MichaelK

xbr23 said:


> posted this in another 20.2 thread but didn't get any input or info. does anyone else notice this issue:
> 
> What I would like to see is that since I use 4 tuners sometimes by using pause, switch tuner, watch, pause, switch tuner, watch, pause.... etc. If a tuner is about to get switched by "Tivo" to record something else, give me a pop up across all tuners that a tuner is about to change. I might veto the change because I plan to go back to that channel after watching the tuner I am currently watching. Tivo will change a tuner even if it is currently paused. That just seems wrong to me.


the answer you are about to read posted 30 times is - "if you want to watch it press the record button" 

followed by some "you are using it wrong" posts.

then some opposing "I'll use my box anyway i want"


----------



## lpwcomp

MichaelK said:


> the answer you are about to read posted 30 times is - "if you want to watch it press the record button"
> 
> followed by some "you are using it wrong" posts.
> 
> then some opposing "I'll use my box anyway i want"


You missed one. "What the heck has this got to do with this thread? Did it work prior to 20.2 and is now broken?"

BTW, this problem must be peculiar to the Elite. I get prompted all the time if it is about to change the channel on the other tuner.


----------



## lpwcomp

crxssi said:


> That sounds like a candidate for another bug entry. The 3.2.1.8 entry is only for the guide, and this seems to also display it on the on-screen-info popup. Certainly the two are related, but shouldn't this be listed separately?
> 
> And if so, I think we need a main header to contain things related to the info popups- I think maybe 3.2.4, 3.2.7, and the proposed one should be moved there as well?
> 
> Related- it looks like 3.2.8 should also be moved under Guide issues (3.2.1.X)?
> 
> Thoughts?


It occurred to me that this is probably also the reason for the missing "New" flags on the current days guide entries.


----------



## SandDune

One more. Within folders, deleting the last item in the list now returns you to the top (first item) of the list. This used to leave you on the last item of the list. Basically the behavior is to go to the show further down the list from the one you just deleted, but for some reason when there is no older show it goes to the top of the folder. This is especially annoying for any folder that is full of shows (like the CNet podcast folder when I go out of town for a week).

This worked in the old version in SD. The problem shows itself in the new version in HD (need to verify in SD as well).


----------



## crxssi

SandDune said:


> One more. Within folders, deleting the last item in the list now returns you to the top (first item) of the list. This used to leave you on the last item of the list. Basically the behavior is to go to the show further down the list from the one you just deleted, but for some reason when there is no older show it goes to the top of the folder. This is especially annoying for any folder that is full of shows (like the CNet podcast folder when I go out of town for a week).
> 
> This worked in the old version in SD. The problem shows itself in the new version in HD (need to verify in SD as well).


More clarification needed. In the HDUI, when I am in TiVo Suggestions folder and delete the last item, it moves me to "Improve my TiVo Suggestions", it does not take me to the top. Perhaps it is only in other sub-folders, of which I have none so I can't test.


----------



## steve614

SandDune said:


> One more. Within folders, deleting the last item in the list now returns you to the top (first item) of the list. This used to leave you on the last item of the list. Basically the behavior is to go to the show further down the list from the one you just deleted, but for some reason when there is no older show it goes to the top of the folder. This is especially annoying for any folder that is full of shows (like the CNet podcast folder when I go out of town for a week).
> 
> This worked in the old version in SD. The problem shows itself in the new version in HD (need to verify in SD as well).


Pressing the (->|) button will take you back to the bottom of the list.


----------



## moyekj

steve614 said:


> Pressing the (->|) button will take you back to the bottom of the list.


 Yes, but in HDUI inside a folder there are a bunch of options listed at the bottom and skip forwards takes you to the bottom option instead of the last show in the folder which is usually what you want. Annoying things like that keep me away from the HDUI (in addition to the sluggishness).


----------



## SandDune

And I would have no problem if deleting the last item in the folder took me to one of those options, but taking me to the top is a lot of extra clicks (even using the skip forward button). If the skip forward button took me to the last show instead of the last item, that would be a lot less complicated. And taking a look, you're right this behavior does not appear to present itself in the Tivo Suggestions folder. Yet another inconsistency in behavior.


----------



## SandDune

Oh, and will I'm on the topic of deleting items, it would be nice if deleting a Netflix item from your queue left you at the current spot in your queue (either the next or previous item) instead of returning you to the top. If you have a very long Netflix queue this can be quite annoying. Of course this is not new behavior, and exists in both HD and SD UI's, both before and after the upgrade. But since I was on the topic anyway...


----------



## lpwcomp

SandDune said:


> And I would have no problem if deleting the last item in the folder took me to one of those options, but taking me to the top is a lot of extra clicks (even using the skip forward button). If the skip forward button took me to the last show instead of the last item, that would be a lot less complicated. And taking a look, you're right this behavior does not appear to present itself in the Tivo Suggestions folder. Yet another inconsistency in behavior.


The reason it doesn't do that in the suggestions folder is not "inconsistency". It is that the options *aren't there*. The options aren't there because they don't apply to the recordings in that folder, any more than they apply to the "HD Recordings" folder.


----------



## crxssi

SandDune said:


> And taking a look, you're right this behavior does not appear to present itself in the Tivo Suggestions folder. Yet another inconsistency in behavior.


Not necessarily inconsistent behavior- It is just that in the suggestions folder, there are some hard-coded, non-recording menu entries at the bottom which might not be present in other folders. So the cursor/selector has somewhere lower to land after the delete.

EDIT: oops, after posting this, I see that lpwcomp essentially posted nearly the exact same comment.


----------



## SandDune

Actually, I'll disagree with you both. In both cases the "folder" contains programs followed by menu items. The menu items may be different in both cases, but in both cases they are nonetheless menu items. Users expect consistency in operations between items when they view the items as functionally similar. As such, it is an inconsistency in behavior.

Just my 2¢ as someone who designs user experiences as part of my job.

EDIT: Oh, and back to my original point, this is a change with 20.2.


----------



## lessd

I have to applaud all of the people who took the time to contribute to this thread and especially to *crxssi *for putting it all together. This thread is better at telling TiVo what their Series 4 UI is like for users than I expect they have every had, I hope TiVo people really pay attention to the information in this thread. I don't think TiVo beta groups (if TiVo ever had any beta groups) would ever produced this much good information in such great detail.


----------



## WillH

WillH said:


> Not sure if this has been reported (I scanned but couldn't find in this thread) but when I do a SEARCH and then GET SEASON PASS, it will always default to the OTA channel number and I don't have an option to select which channel. For instance, searching for SURVIVOR will bring up 46-1 which is a local OTA high def station here in Atlanta for CBN. I prefer it record on 809 which is the hi-def cable channel for CBS. It seems to always default to the lowest channel. It does not give me the option to change the channel - the search will always bring up the lowest number and it is fixed.
> 
> If instead of using the Search feature to find the show and get a season pass, if I actually locate the show in the Guide on the channel I wish to record from, and hit record and GET A SEASON PASS, it still defaults to the 46-1 channel and that is what it wants to set the pass for despite my clicking record from the 809 channel in the guide. From here, I have to go ahead and get the season pass and save it but I then have to go back in and change the channel number from within the OPTIONS in the season pass.
> 
> In the past, it would even default to a SD channel since they were always the lowest channel number on Comcast's channel lineup. I have since deleted all my SD channels from the Tivo lineup so I assume it would still do this now.
> 
> It would be fine like it is if it would allow me to select the channel when I am selecting the season pass on the first go through. Why do I have to save it to a channel I don't want it to record from and then go back and change it? This is a lot of wasted time and key clicks. I could block all my redundant OTA channels but I sometimes watch them.
> 
> Those of you not using the OTA channels or have them blocked may not have this issue but it seems worse now with the new firmware.


I discovered another strange behavior with this new 20.2 version and my OTA channels.

My understanding of a season pass is that one has to create a SP for each channel - one cannot create a SP that spans more than one channel. For instance, if I want to record a golf tournament SP for PGA TOUR GOLF, I have to setup one for Golf Channel, one for CBS, one for TNT, etc.. So I would have several season passes for the same show - a SP pass for each channel.

Now, today I noticed that my Tivo was recording golf on 2 CBS stations: The OTA CBS hi def and the cable CBS hi def. This is very odd because I never setup a season pass for the OTA CBS hi def channel - only setup a season pass for the cable CBS channel. I never noticed this before today and I have had this Tivo for almost 2 years now. Also, when I went to the Season Pass Manager, the OTA CBS station doesn't even show up! Very weird and I am not sure how I am going to get rid of it for future recording. I don't need redundant season pass recordings.

Another weird thing is that I wanted to cancel the Golf Channel's re-airing of the golf tournament tonight so I could record a movie and when I went to that listing in the guide and hit record to modify, it brought up the recording that was happening right now - not the one I highlighted. I was not even tuned to the same channel - I was on 212 and the recording was happening on 809 and the channel I highlighted was 849.

Can anyone shed any light on this or is this another bug or a bug that has already been discussed?

Thanks.


----------



## morac

WillH said:


> Can anyone shed any light on this or is this another bug or a bug that has already been discussed?
> 
> Thanks.


It's possible one of the recordings was a suggestion. I've seen instances where the TiVo decides to record a program as a suggestion even though the same exact program is recording as a scheduled on another channel (a number of channels in my cable system are duplicated in the 200s and 800s). From my understanding, suggestions are independent from regular scheduled recordings so this can happen.


----------



## WillH

morac said:


> It's possible one of the recordings was a suggestion. I've seen instances where the TiVo decides to record a program as a suggestion even though the same exact program is recording as a scheduled on another channel (a number of channels in my cable system are duplicated in the 200s and 800s). From my understanding, suggestions are independent from regular scheduled recordings so this can happen.


I have record suggestions OFF - double checked to make sure.

I "think" something weird is going on with the OTA interaction with the new software version.


----------



## L David Matheny

WillH said:


> I discovered another strange behavior with this new 20.2 version and my OTA channels.
> 
> My understanding of a season pass is that one has to create a SP for each channel - one cannot create a SP that spans more than one channel. For instance, if I want to record a golf tournament SP for PGA TOUR GOLF, I have to setup one for Golf Channel, one for CBS, one for TNT, etc.. So I would have several season passes for the same show - a SP pass for each channel.
> 
> Now, today I noticed that my Tivo was recording golf on 2 CBS stations: The OTA CBS hi def and the cable CBS hi def. This is very odd because I never setup a season pass for the OTA CBS hi def channel - only setup a season pass for the cable CBS channel. I never noticed this before today and I have had this Tivo for almost 2 years now. Also, when I went to the Season Pass Manager, the OTA CBS station doesn't even show up! Very weird and I am not sure how I am going to get rid of it for future recording. I don't need redundant season pass recordings.
> 
> Another weird thing is that I wanted to cancel the Golf Channel's re-airing of the golf tournament tonight so I could record a movie and when I went to that listing in the guide and hit record to modify, it brought up the recording that was happening right now - not the one I highlighted. I was not even tuned to the same channel - I was on 212 and the recording was happening on 809 and the channel I highlighted was 849.
> 
> Can anyone shed any light on this or is this another bug or a bug that has already been discussed?
> 
> Thanks.


Redundant season passes (same network, same show, different channel) are used for backup in case one station replaces the show with fundraising (PBS) or some other local special. If it's really the same show (same episode number in the guide) only the first (highest priority) season pass will actually record. If you're getting recordings on a channel for which the SP manager doesn't show a season pass, I can't explain that, unless something like a channel lineup change could cause it.

To cancel a scheduled recording, go to the To Do List, not the guide.


----------



## cherry ghost

WillH said:


> Another weird thing is that I wanted to cancel the Golf Channel's re-airing of the golf tournament tonight so I could record a movie and when I went to that listing in the guide and hit record to modify, it brought up the recording that was happening right now - not the one I highlighted. I was not even tuned to the same channel - I was on 212 and the recording was happening on 809 and the channel I highlighted was 849.
> 
> Can anyone shed any light on this or is this another bug or a bug that has already been discussed?
> 
> Thanks.


You have to go into "options" and select the proper channel/time. The TiVo now defaults to the next airing, not the channel selected in the guide. It's very similar to your previous problem if you go back and read the responses.

Or, as has been stated, use the To Do List.


----------



## WillH

L David Matheny said:


> To cancel a scheduled recording, go to the To Do List, not the guide.





cherry ghost said:


> You have to go into "options" and select the proper channel/time. The TiVo now defaults to the next airing, not the channel selected in the guide. It's very similar to your previous problem if you go back and read the responses.
> 
> Or, as has been stated, use the To Do List.


Got it - thanks.:up:

However, just from a logical standpoint, seems to me that one should be able to cancel from the guide too - especially since it still throws us out of HDUI mode into SDUI mode (To Do List).

Something goofy is going on with the OTA workings though - No reason that program should have been recording today. Sort of like hitting the garage door opener and it opens mine and the neighbor's too.


----------



## crxssi

lessd said:


> I have to applaud all of the people who took the time to contribute to this thread and especially to *crxssi *for putting it all together. This thread is better at telling TiVo what their Series 4 UI is like for users than I expect they have every had, I hope TiVo people really pay attention to the information in this thread. I don't think TiVo beta groups (if TiVo ever had any beta groups) would ever produced this much good information in such great detail.


Thanks. I am pretty sure TiVo is watching the thread- with 520 replies and 27,438 views, it is pretty hard to miss at this point. Let's hope it helps TiVo to make some quick and positive changes.

We have always lacked a central place to gather such information in the past. Threads can get ridiculously large and complex (and noisy) and few people that weren't participating will ever take the time to try and figure out conclusions.

Really, a moderated Wiki would probably be a far better way to handle it, but this seems to be working. The main problem (or perhaps feature) is that it relies on just one person (me) to maintain it. In that way it is not democratic and can be biased. On the flip side, it will have consistent wording and style and prevent duplicates.

It is amazing how many little changes TiVo users on this forum can find


----------



## cherry ghost

WillH said:


> Got it - thanks.:up:
> 
> However, just from a logical standpoint, seems to me that one should be able to cancel from the guide too - especially since it still throws us out of HDUI mode into SDUI mode (To Do List).
> 
> Something goofy is going on with the OTA workings though - No reason that program should have been recording today. Sort of like hitting the garage door opener and it opens mine and the neighbor's too.


I actually messed that up. You have to scroll through "Upcoming" to find the episode, not go into "Options"

The OTA recording is odd and I see so few people posting about using both OTA and cable, it might not be confirmed by someone else. See what happens with golf recordings next week on NBC.


----------



## steve614

lessd said:


> I have to applaud all of the people who took the time to contribute to this thread and especially to *crxssi *for putting it all together. This thread is better at telling TiVo what their Series 4 UI is like for users than I expect they have every had, I hope TiVo people really pay attention to the information in this thread. I don't think TiVo beta groups (if TiVo ever had any beta groups) would ever produced this much good information in such great detail.


I agree.

TiVo does have their beta groups, but they aren't so extensive in the way that every aspect is tested. I think their main goal is to make sure the software is stable enough for a public release.
TiVo would be wise to take advantage of the asset they have with us here at TCF. A much more diverse group of users who care enough about the TiVo experience to come here and report their information.:up:


----------



## WillH

cherry ghost said:


> The OTA recording is odd and I see so few people posting about using both OTA and cable, it might not be confirmed by someone else. See what happens with golf recordings next week on NBC.


I suspect it has something to do with the fact that the "cable" portion is via a Comcast cablecard and the "OTA" portion is the unit's built in tuner and the software is wigging out somewhere along the way in sorting the two (or three if you count tuners) hardware components out. It may have something to do with the way the new ELITE handles 4 tuners and it is my understanding that the ELITE dropped the OTA feature? Perhaps there is an oversight somewhere. Dunno. Hopefully someone at Tivo will see this thread and note it is something to be fixed.


----------



## brshoemak

I'm surprised not one has noticed this or at least I didn't see it on the latest list but this one annoys me a lot:

When you have a number of recordings in a group and are at the menu where you can actually select 'Play' you used to be able to use Ch+/- to switch to other shows in the group without having to back out of the 'Play' screen.

This might have always been an issue with the HDUI - I just noticed it recently as I started using the HDUI on a permanent basis.


----------



## morac

brshoemak said:


> I'm surprised not one has noticed this or at least I didn't see it on the latest list but this one annoys me a lot:
> 
> When you have a number of recordings in a group and are at the menu where you can actually select 'Play' you used to be able to use Ch+/- to switch to other shows in the group without having to back out of the 'Play' screen.
> 
> This might have always been an issue with the HDUI - I just noticed it recently as I started using the HDUI on a permanent basis.


Yes that's always been an issue with the HDUI and a rather annoying one at that.


----------



## lpwcomp

I don't know if this started with 20.2 or not, but closed captions are not displayed for a recording transferred to the Premiere from the computer. Even a .tivo file that was originally transferred from the Premiere. The "info" screen says "This show has closed captions" but none are displayed. CCs are OK for a recording transferred directly from the THD.


----------



## crxssi

morac said:


> Yes that's always been an issue with the HDUI and a rather annoying one at that.


[using chan to move up down]

I am also recent to the HDUI. That always worked in the SDUI, but I never tried it in the HDUI (which is strange, since I used it all the time in the SDUI). So you are saying the HDUI never supported doing that function? And if so, I am not sure it could be counted as a bug or even a carryover.... more like a wished feature, which wouldn't be covered in this type of changelog.


----------



## crxssi

lpwcomp said:


> I don't know if this started with 20.2 or not, but closed captions are not displayed for a recording transferred to the Premiere from the computer. Even a .tivo file that was originally transferred from the Premiere. The "info" screen says "This show has closed captions" but none are displayed. CCs are OK for a recording transferred directly from the THD.


Hopefully someone else can comment on this, since none of my "PyTiVo'ed" files have closed captions. With the last few updates, people have reported some unusual issues with transferred files, but it is most meta-data related.


----------



## crxssi

No comments on the previously last two posts?


----------



## moyekj

lpwcomp said:


> I don't know if this started with 20.2 or not, but closed captions are not displayed for a recording transferred to the Premiere from the computer. Even a .tivo file that was originally transferred from the Premiere. The "info" screen says "This show has closed captions" but none are displayed. CCs are OK for a recording transferred directly from the THD.


 Confirmed. I tuned to live TV to make sure captions were present and working and recorded a 2 minute clip and transferred to my PC.
I then used pyTivo to transfer back the .TiVo file and verified TiVo would not display captions for it. I also then decrypted the .TiVo file to .mpg (playing that with VLC showed captions) and transferred back and still no captions displayed. I don't have TiVo Desktop installed to try it there (and don't really want to do that).

i.e. Captions are present in the downloaded file (since VLC was able to show captions), but somehow get dropped when transferring back to TiVo.


----------



## ghuido

My Two Cents after having a TIVO Premiere Elite for a week. 

- HD Menu. No Watch Live TV Menu item. S.O. used this a lot in the SD menu and was dissapointed it was not carried over to HD Menu. She can use the watch Live TV button on the Menu
- Might be a legacy item, when playing Music through TIVO (Tivo Desktop). It goes to a screen that is all black and shows the Song Information. This is static and does not move. Ghosting or Burning issue for Plasma. Be nice it if at least rotated or went to some screensaver method
- Have they updated the controls of the -> on the TIVO Remote for the Premiere system? IT seems different behavior than the Series 3 / TIVO HD.


----------



## ghuido

brentil said:


> Once I get 20 I'll run my benchmarks.


where you able to run the bnechmarks?


----------



## astrohip

ghuido said:


> - Have they updated the controls of the -> on the TIVO Remote for the Premiere system? IT seems different behavior than the Series 3 / TIVO HD.


Yes. I vaguely recall, during the initial Setup, it asking me if I wanted the new behavior or the old behavior. Since I am an old, cranky geezer, I chose old behavior (and yelled at it to get off my yard).

There is probably a menu option somewhere to flip it.


----------



## ghuido

astrohip said:


> Yes. I vaguely recall, during the initial Setup, it asking me if I wanted the new behavior or the old behavior. Since I am an old, cranky geezer, I chose old behavior (and yelled at it to get off my yard).
> 
> There is probably a menu option somewhere to flip it.


Must have missed it. If anyone knows where it is let me know. I don't get what hte new behavior is supposed to be.


----------



## lpwcomp

astrohip said:


> There is probably a menu option somewhere to flip it.


There is. You can also enable 30-sec skip with S-P-S-3-0-S, although with 20.2 this is somewhat more difficult.


----------



## lpwcomp

ghuido said:


> Must have missed it. If anyone knows where it is let me know. I don't get what hte new behavior is supposed to be.


Settings & Messages->Settings->Remote, CableCARD , & Devices->Remote Control Setup->Part 4:ADVANCE and REPLAY buttons


----------



## wmcbrine

ghuido said:


> - Might be a legacy item, when playing Music through TIVO (Tivo Desktop). It goes to a screen that is all black and shows the Song Information. This is static and does not move.


It does move. The info window will sit there for N seconds (I've never measured this), and then jump instantly to a new location. It's easy to miss the jumps if you're not watching, but you'll see that the window is no longer centered.


----------



## ghuido

lpwcomp said:


> Settings & Messages->Settings->Remote, CableCARD , & Devices->Remote Control Setup->Part 4:ADVANCE and REPLAY buttons


Thanks that worked


----------



## WillH

My premiere crashed last night. Was 30 sec skip forwarding through some commercials, screen froze, and then the unit did a hard reboot. 15 minutes later it was back up, played the same show again without problems. Interface was very slow and the nav bar was empty (blacked out) for about 1/2 hour.

First time in a long while that it has crashed like this. Used to do this a lot and it seemed to happen when the Tivo network was slow or having issues.

Looks like they still have the unit keyed to the dynamic content they pull from their servers without using caching or other speed up techniques.


----------



## moyekj

moyekj said:


> Confirmed. I tuned to live TV to make sure captions were present and working and recorded a 2 minute clip and transferred to my PC.
> I then used pyTivo to transfer back the .TiVo file and verified TiVo would not display captions for it. I also then decrypted the .TiVo file to .mpg (playing that with VLC showed captions) and transferred back and still no captions displayed. I don't have TiVo Desktop installed to try it there (and don't really want to do that).
> 
> i.e. Captions are present in the downloaded file (since VLC was able to show captions), but somehow get dropped when transferring back to TiVo.


FYI. The same 2 minute clip I transferred back to Premiere that did not have captions I transferred to my S3 OLED unit with pyTivo and captions worked fine on that unit. So it's confirmed to be a bug for Series 4 units. Not sure when the bug was introduced exactly but I'm pretty sure it used to work with my Premieres a few months ago.


----------



## crxssi

moyekj said:


> FYI. The same 2 minute clip I transferred back to Premiere that did not have captions I transferred to my S3 OLED unit with pyTivo and captions worked fine on that unit. So it's confirmed to be a bug for Series 4 units. Not sure when the bug was introduced exactly but I'm pretty sure it used to work with my Premieres a few months ago.


Thanks for the info. I will consider it a 20.2 bug, even if it is 14.9


----------



## squint

Shows that I downloaded to my PC to edit out the commercials and then sent back to my Premiere had captions months ago but when I play them now, the captions do not appear. When I transfer the shows from the Premiere to the Tivo HD, the captions work on the Tivo HD. I've only noticed this problem recently.

Edit: I should mention that the Premiere is connected via HDMI while the HD is using composite cables due to the HDMI port breaking.


----------



## wmcbrine

wmcbrine said:


> The info window will sit there for N seconds (I've never measured this)


It turns out to be about 15 seconds, BTW.


----------



## CoxInPHX

Not sure if this belongs here, but I thought I would document it, to see if the next TiVo software release does in deed fix the issue. There's no way to know if prior versions had the same issue, because the MPEG4 channels were launched around the same time as 20.2.

SW Vers 20.2 does not currently support the authorization or authentication of MPEG4 (H.264) format video currently being broadcast by Cox in Northern VA and Arizona. Both Cox markets are Cisco and use Tuning Adapters which possibly were variables in the issue.

Margret Schmidt has confirmed that TiVo sent Cox a "fix" to test and Cox confirmed the "fix" worked, and that it would most likely be included in the next update. She did not know exactly what the problem was, only that a TiVo software fix resolves the issue.


----------



## Loquitur

I have a Premiere hooked up to a bedroom TV via component and to a TV in an adjoining room with a treadmill via an HDMI wireless transmitter. This worked fine until I got the 20.2 software when all of a sudden, I got an error message when turning on the bedroom TV. I had to pull the HDMI cable out of the transmitter in order to watch the TV with the component connection. But after a couple of weeks, I forgot to pull the HDMI cable out one day and I discovered it all started working again. I can now watch the bedroom TV with the component connection with the HDMI cable hooked into the HDMI wireless transmitter. Don't know whether this was a bug or not but I am very pleasantly surprised. 
Susan


----------



## aaronwt

Loquitur said:


> I have a Premiere hooked up to a bedroom TV via component and to a TV in an adjoining room with a treadmill via an HDMI wireless transmitter. This worked fine until I got the 20.2 software when all of a sudden, I got an error message when turning on the bedroom TV. I had to pull the HDMI cable out of the transmitter in order to watch the TV with the component connection. But after a couple of weeks, I forgot to pull the HDMI cable out one day and I discovered it all started working again. I can now watch the bedroom TV with the component connection with the HDMI cable hooked into the HDMI wireless transmitter. Don't know whether this was a bug or not but I am very pleasantly surprised.
> Susan


The TiVos I've had in my bedroom, a TiVoHD and now a Premiere have always behaved this way.
In my situation it behaved this way if I put the TV on a different input than the TiVo HDMI input. If I did that, I couldn't get an output from component or composite because of copy protection. At least that is the message that always popped up. If I left the TV on the TiVo HDMI input when turning it off then it was fine.


----------



## WillH

WillH said:


> My premiere crashed last night. Was 30 sec skip forwarding through some commercials, screen froze, and then the unit did a hard reboot. 15 minutes later it was back up, played the same show again without problems. Interface was very slow and the nav bar was empty (blacked out) for about 1/2 hour.
> 
> First time in a long while that it has crashed like this. Used to do this a lot and it seemed to happen when the Tivo network was slow or having issues.
> 
> Looks like they still have the unit keyed to the dynamic content they pull from their servers without using caching or other speed up techniques.


Another crash today.......Just watching a golf recording. Wasn't using the remote or anything. Just playing Doral golf tourney back and it froze for a few seconds and then it rebooted by itself. Something with the new software - it hasn't behaved like this (crashing) since 2010. Thinking about starting a new thread about the crashing to see if others are having the same issue.


----------



## lpwcomp

Looks like the HDUI DST problem has been fixed.


----------



## lpwcomp

lpwcomp said:


> Looks like the HDUI DST problem has been fixed.


Has anyone noticed that the TCF seems to have a DST problem?


----------



## dcstager

My new Elite outputs audio in PCM regardless of the Audio menu setting. Is this a known bug or hardware problem?


----------



## Innerloop

I thought it would be possible to discover a new feature after this long, but i think I noticed one not listed here yet --

If you go backward in time in the HDUI Guide, programs that are in the past (ended already) are shown slightly darker/greyed out compared to shows that are in progress or still to begin.

Minor, but a nice touch that makes it easier to differentiate where you are in the guide limetine.


----------



## crxssi

Innerloop said:


> I thought it would be possible to discover a new feature after this long, but i think I noticed one not listed here yet --
> 
> If you go backward in time in the HDUI Guide, programs that are in the past (ended already) are shown slightly darker/greyed out compared to shows that are in progress or still to begin.
> 
> Minor, but a nice touch that makes it easier to differentiate where you are in the guide limetine.


Interesting. Can anyone else confirm this is new behavior in the new 20.2 guide that did not exist in the older guide? (Remember, I never could tolerate the HDUI until 20.2)


----------



## ghuido

Anybody else report Netflix crashing causing TiVo reboot. Since 20.2 it crashed twice streaming Netflix.


----------



## Lars_J

I have had two issues with 20.2 recently.

- SD-UI related: I have parental controls setup, but sometimes when starting to watch protected content I get a black screen, but no prompt for password. The only way to actually view it is to go into settings/parental controls and temporarily disable parental controls.

- Netflix: Sometimes when watching HD content (at least that's the only time I've seen this) the Netflix 'app' will crash. Before this could reboot the machine - But since 20.2, this will jsut kill the Netflix 'app' and return me to the previous Tivo screen. HOWEVER - I cannot get back into Netflix, it just boots me out again. Rebooting the TiVo is the only way of solving this.


----------



## crxssi

Lars_J said:


> - Netflix: Sometimes when watching HD content (at least that's the only time I've seen this) the Netflix 'app' will crash. Before this could reboot the machine - But since 20.2, this will jsut kill the Netflix 'app' and return me to the previous Tivo screen. HOWEVER - I cannot get back into Netflix, it just boots me out again. Rebooting the TiVo is the only way of solving this.


Interesting that your post is directly opposite of the previous poster 

I don't think we can draw any conclusion. This thread shows people saying it is rock solid, others saying it crashes only, and others saying it can crash and reboot: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=483043


----------



## lpwcomp

crxssi said:


> Interesting. Can anyone else confirm this is new behavior in the new 20.2 guide that did not exist in the older guide? (Remember, I never could tolerate the HDUI until 20.2)


Not seeing it at all. Maybe it's using some text attribute not supported by my TV.


----------



## CoxInPHX

crxssi said:


> Interesting. Can anyone else confirm this is new behavior in the new 20.2 guide that did not exist in the older guide? (Remember, I never could tolerate the HDUI until 20.2)





lpwcomp said:


> Not seeing it at all. Maybe it's using some text attribute not supported by my TV.


The behavior is only visible in the Grid Guide (not in the Live Guide).

In the HDUI Grid Guide any show prior to the current time has a slightly darker background than the current time slot and future time slots.


----------



## morac

CoxInPHX said:


> The behavior is only visible in the Grid Guide (not in the Live Guide).
> 
> In the HDUI Grid Guide any show prior to the current time has a slightly darker background than the current time slot and future time slots.


The HD grid guide is new to 20.2, so that change is probably just part of the new guide.


----------



## andyf

CoxInPHX said:


> The behavior is only visible in the Grid Guide (not in the Live Guide).
> 
> In the HDUI Grid Guide any show prior to the current time has a slightly darker background than the current time slot and future time slots.


I can confirm that shows in the past (in the grid guide) have a darker background than current and future shows.


----------



## lpwcomp

CoxInPHX said:


> The behavior is only visible in the Grid Guide (not in the Live Guide).
> 
> In the HDUI Grid Guide any show prior to the current time has a slightly darker background than the current time slot and future time slots.


Ah. That explains it. I don't use the grid guide. I just tried it and, on my TV at least, the background is *much* darker for times prior to the current time.


----------



## ghuido

I thought about this last night, and I could be way off base.

Wondering if hte netflxi crash has anything to do with upconverting the signal to 1080P 24P. I have that on my settings. 

Just throwing it out there, could be wrong but crazier things can happen.

For me, I have it set to 1080P 24. I'll set it down to 1080i and see if it becomes stables.


----------



## aaronwt

ghuido said:


> I thought about this last night, and I could be way off base.
> 
> Wondering if hte netflxi crash has anything to do with upconverting the signal to 1080P 24P. I have that on my settings.
> 
> Just throwing it out there, could be wrong but crazier things can happen.
> 
> For me, I have it set to 1080P 24. I'll set it down to 1080i and see if it becomes stables.


Are you talking about the TiVo? It doesn't scale anything to 1080P24. And Netflix only outputs 720P max from Netflix although the Premiere can scale it to 1080i as the max resolution. The Premiere can only pass-thru 1080P24 content.


----------



## ghuido

If that is the case, my point is retracted. Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## lpwcomp

Discovered another annoyance - when you have to force record a show for which you have a season pass, like for instance last night's "House", it doesn't default to the options of the SP. This is when using the HDUI.


----------



## L David Matheny

lpwcomp said:


> Discovered another annoyance - when you have to force record a show for which you have a season pass, like for instance last night's "House", it doesn't default to the options of the SP. This is when using the HDUI.


You mean you're recording an additional episode, right? IOW, not a manual recording. In SDUI, when I select "Record this episode also" my Premiere always picks up the one-minute-early setting from the SP. But I think it might not do that if I just select the quickie "Record this showing" from the guide.


----------



## lpwcomp

L David Matheny said:


> You mean you're recording an additional episode, right? IOW, not a manual recording. In SDUI, when I select "Record this episode also" my Premiere always picks up the one-minute-early setting from the SP. But I think it might not do that if I just select the quickie "Record this showing" from the guide.


In this particular case, it was the episode that got delayed by the Daytona 500. The TiVo thought it had already been recorded. And the behavior you describe is what I expected but the HDUI does not do that. There is no "Record this episode also", just "Record this episode" and the default options are the normal options, not those of the season pass.

It's like the HDUI was developed in a semi-vacuum, with little effort made to maintain the same functionality.


----------



## b_scott

You cannot use channel up and down to skip to the bottom of episode options. I don't know if this is a change...


----------



## spudzola

CoxInPHX said:


> Not sure if this belongs here, but I thought I would document it, to see if the next TiVo software release does in deed fix the issue. There's no way to know if prior versions had the same issue, because the MPEG4 channels were launched around the same time as 20.2.
> 
> SW Vers 20.2 does not currently support the authorization or authentication of MPEG4 (H.264) format video currently being broadcast by Cox in Northern VA and Arizona. Both Cox markets are Cisco and use Tuning Adapters which possibly were variables in the issue.
> 
> Margret Schmidt has confirmed that TiVo sent Cox a "fix" to test and Cox confirmed the "fix" worked, and that it would most likely be included in the next update. She did not know exactly what the problem was, only that a TiVo software fix resolves the issue.


Just got a call today from a "Janice" at Cox-PHX advising that they have tested the new software and the Plus channels now can be viewed. She indicated that the software version was 20.2.1.M4-01-2-746 and was advised by Tivo that it would be available on or about March 31st.


----------



## CoxInPHX

spudzola said:


> Just got a call today from a "Janice" at Cox-PHX advising that they have tested the new software and the Plus channels now can be viewed. She indicated that the software version was 20.2.1.M4-01-2-746 and was advised by Tivo that it would be available on or about March 31st.


I received the same call from Janice at Cox, she did mention the March 31st date of availability from TiVo but did not mention a software version number. I find it hard to believe that TiVo would release an update just for this, since there are a very limited number of customers effected. I would expect it in the "spring" update, hope I am wrong.

In a follow-up call from TiVo Level 2 Tech support yesterday regarding this issue, the Tech claimed no knowledge of the update fix. When I mentioned my email from Margret, the Tech said that was above his pay grade???


----------



## crxssi

spudzola said:


> Just got a call today from a "Janice" at Cox-PHX advising that they have tested the new software and the Plus channels now can be viewed. She indicated that the software version was 20.2.1.M4-01-2-746 and was advised by Tivo that it would be available on or about March 31st.


Really great news. Because this is NOT just affecting Cox in Northern VA and Arizona. It is certainly happening in Hampton Roads too. A friend of mine is furious at both TiVo and Cox about missing/untunable channels. This pretty much explains what is going on: http://www.tvpredictions.com/cox091911.htm


----------



## wmcbrine

spudzola said:


> Just got a call today from a "Janice" at Cox-PHX advising that they have tested the new software and the Plus channels now can be viewed. She indicated that the software version was 20.2.1.M4-01-2-746 and was advised by Tivo that it would be available on or about March 31st.


I suppose an equivalent patch will never come to the Series 3 in the U.S.  Even though we know they're capable of handling h.264 over QAM, because they do it in New Zealand, with software version 11.3.

But, I digress.


----------



## bbrown9

I just noticed this in the last couple of days. I don't know for sure if it's 20.2 related or not.

When you view the todo list, sometimes the display flashes funny and the first few programs that were listed no longer show up. If you left arrow to exit the todo list and then go back in, the shows that went missing are back.

Anyone else see this?


----------



## CoxInPHX

todo list display goes wonky

Yes, mine often does that and has since 20.2, sometimes it all disappears, channel up and channel down usually bring it back without exiting.


----------



## L David Matheny

bbrown9 said:


> I just noticed this in the last couple of days. I don't know for sure if it's 20.2 related or not.
> 
> When you view the todo list, sometimes the display flashes funny and the first few programs that were listed no longer show up. If you left arrow to exit the todo list and then go back in, the shows that went missing are back.
> 
> Anyone else see this?


It's probably a linked list, and sometimes the pointers get messed up. I've seen it too, sometimes as a result of canceling a recording. As long as it's only a display issue, I don't get too worried.


----------



## ghuido

LEts just make sure we start a new one for the Spring Update ....  someone post a link to it here in case I miss it in the main post. This was a great thread for 20.2


----------



## lessd

ghuido said:


> LEts just make sure we start a new one for the Spring Update ....  someone post a link to it here in case I miss it in the main post. This was a great thread for 20.2


People all over are now getting 20.2a updates, I will assume its not the Spring update, but still may mess up this thread as nobody has reported anything new with 20.2a yet. (one person did said they are now getting re-boots that did not happen before this 20.2a update)


----------



## rhettf

lessd said:


> People all over are now getting 20.2a updates, I will assume its not the Spring update, but still may mess up this thread as nobody has reported anything new with 20.2a yet. (one person did said they are now getting re-boots that did not happen before this 20.2a update)


20.2a is probably maintenance and the enabling (on Tivo's side) of Xfinity onDemand in the Bay Area. Based on the post by @tivodeisgn on Twitter that the boxes would be getting a small update this week for xfinity TV.

We all get the update regardless of our location since we could move. I believe the patch probably install the app and is waiting for activation. Our Tivo Box activates the program when comcast sends a activation single in your area.


----------



## lessd

rhettf said:


> 20.2a is probably maintenance and the enabling (on Tivo's side) of Xfinity onDemand in the Bay Area. Based on the post by @tivodeisgn on Twitter that the boxes would be getting a small update this week for xfinity TV.


But people without Comcast and not in the Bay Area are getting the update. See http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9035708#post9035708


----------



## crxssi

lessd said:


> People all over are now getting 20.2a updates, I will assume its not the Spring update, but still may mess up this thread as nobody has reported anything new with 20.2a yet. (one person did said they are now getting re-boots that did not happen before this 20.2a update)


Indeed, the 20.2a is not the "Spring Update". I am thinking of it as more of a patch to enable features for those on just one cable network. I plan to ignore 20.2a but I do plan to create another change/bug log thread for the "Spring Update".


----------



## rhettf

lessd said:


> But people without Comcast and not in the Bay Area are getting the update.


We all get the update regardless - Tivo doesn't have a way to make the update based on your location. What if you move to the bay area soon?

I said its Maintenance and comcast xfinity for the bay area. Since Comcast will roll the service out to every tivo in due time.

If Tivo already installed the patch that allows the access, the only thing left is the comcast activation ping via your coax cable.

Make Sense? Tivo is saving resources by not fragmenting there software and usually software is fragmented and not updated by Tivo ONLY when you get a tivo from your Cable Co.


----------



## curiousgeorge

Got a weird (what I assume is a) bug on a Premiere yesterday. Trying to swap tuner using info button, but instead of the two tuners and A-B functionality, the swap was moved to the bottom of the icons on the left and had multiple record button icons instead. When I went down to it, I got a LIST of the tuners. I'm assuming this is some kind of Elte thing to manage 4 tuners, but this wasn't on an Elite, and after a while I couldn't get it to come up like that again - went back to the "normal" way.


----------



## morac

curiousgeorge said:


> Got a weird (what I assume is a) bug on a Premiere yesterday. Trying to swap tuner using info button, but instead of the two tuners and A-B functionality, the swap was moved to the bottom of the icons on the left and had multiple record button icons instead. When I went down to it, I got a LIST of the tuners. I'm assuming this is some kind of Elte thing to manage 4 tuners, but this wasn't on an Elite, and after a while I couldn't get it to come up like that again - went back to the "normal" way.


20.2 changed the tuner swap button listed in the info screen to a list of the tuners and what they are recording. It is fairly useless for the Premiere since there's only two tuners. It's simply easier to use the Live TV button to switch tuners.

BTW sometimes the list of tuners are on the top of the info screen and sometimes on the bottom. I think it depends whether or not you are watching a recording or in live TV. I don't think it's a bug, but I consider it a design flaw.


----------



## lpwcomp

Actually, on the 2-tuner Premiere, the Live TV info display does not have a tuner list button. Each tuner has its own button, the top one is always the current tuner. This is essentially the same button arrangement as the SDUI except for the removal of the Parental Control button and flip-flopping the audio and CC buttons. Dunno about an Elite.


----------



## curiousgeorge

lpwcomp said:


> Actually, on the 2-tuner Premiere, the Live TV info display does not have a tuner list button. Each tuner has its own button, the top one is always the current tuner. This is essentially the same button arrangement as the SDUI except for the removal of the Parental Control button and flip-flopping the audio and CC buttons. Dunno about an Elite.


This is what I'm talking about. We didn't get the two tuner display. For a short time, we got the "newer" 4 tuner display with the tuners on the bottom of the listing and only one tuner listed on the left panel. When you selected that one, you got the listing on the right. It sucked. Fortunately, it went back to "normal" after a little while.


----------



## lpwcomp

Strangely enough, I have a new bug to report. Using the HDUI, if you have a Season Pass for a show on one channel, you cannot create a Season Pass for the same show on a different channel. You have to switch to the SDUI.


----------



## proudx

new bug to report, channel up and down do not scroll through next episodes or recordings in a folder. 

example select Office folder with multiple office episodes, pick an episode. Now see description for office episode picked, channel up and down do not scroll through other office episodes in same folder.


----------



## b_scott

lpwcomp said:


> Strangely enough, I have a new bug to report. Using the HDUI, if you have a Season Pass for a show on one channel, you cannot create a Season Pass for the same show on a different channel. You have to switch to the SDUI.


sure you can.. I do this for Friends on TBS and Nickelodeon.


----------



## compnurd

proudx said:


> new bug to report, channel up and down do not scroll through next episodes or recordings in a folder.
> 
> example select Office folder with multiple office episodes, pick an episode. Now see description for office episode picked, channel up and down do not scroll through other office episodes in same folder.


How is that a bug? Isnt the function there supposed to be the arrow pad


----------



## morac

compnurd said:


> How is that a bug? Isnt the function there supposed to be the arrow pad


It's a bug because it doesn't work the same way that it does in the SD UI, though in this case it's more of a design flaw than a bug.


----------



## fastoy

b_scott said:


> sure you can.. I do this for Friends on TBS and Nickelodeon.


Worked fine for me too. I did it last night.


----------



## proudx

compnurd said:


> How is that a bug? Isnt the function there supposed to be the arrow pad


the arrow pad works fine iwhen operating at the top level of a folder in single list mode. I am talking about once an episode/show is selected and you move into detailed mode for the episode, showing title, descriptions, etc the channel up and channel down buttons should take you to additional detailed listing of other episodes/shows in the same folder.


----------



## lpwcomp

fastoy said:


> Worked fine for me too. I did it last night.


Razzlefratz. I know that when I tried it yesterday and the first time I tried it today, the "Get another Season Pass" option wasn't there. I don't think I'm quite that blind. Crud. The really sad thing is, I was only doing this to "help" an obnoxious new member. See this thread http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=486671


----------



## lpwcomp

proudx said:


> the arrow pad works fine iwhen operating at the top level of a folder in single list mode. I am talking about once an episode/show is selected and you move into detailed mode for the episode, showing title, descriptions, etc the channel up and channel down buttons should take you to additional detailed listing of other episodes/shows in the same folder.


Did that ever work in the HDUI?


----------



## crxssi

morac said:


> It's a bug because it doesn't work the same way that it does in the SD UI, though in this case it's more of a design flaw than a bug.


It is a design flaw, not a bug. And it has been discussed on the forum before. The HDUI has never supported using the chan up/down to scroll through programs while looking at the details of one. That has always been an SDUI feature only.

It would be very nice if they added that to the HDUI, however...


----------



## ghuido

Don't know if anyone reported this before in this post.

Last night the internet died on my Home Network. I did something funny and the entire DNS/Routing went down the toilet. As I was fixing it, The wife reported that the TIVO was slow to response to Remote commands. As in it took 30 seconds to respond to a remote command. if you started watching live tv you where fine but browsing the HD Guide caused it to be pretty much unresponsive with a huge lag. 

Once I fixed the network, it went back to normal. Don't know if this has something to do with the HD Menu catching the ads and banner stuff on top. Just seems like a design flaw if your home network goes loopy the HD Menu goes loopy.


----------



## lessd

ghuido said:


> Don't know if anyone reported this before in this post.
> 
> Last night the internet died on my Home Network. I did something funny and the entire DNS/Routing went down the toilet. As I was fixing it, The wife reported that the TIVO was slow to response to Remote commands. As in it took 30 seconds to respond to a remote command. if you started watching live tv you where fine but browsing the HD Guide caused it to be pretty much unresponsive with a huge lag.
> 
> Once I fixed the network, it went back to normal. Don't know if this has something to do with the HD Menu catching the ads and banner stuff on top. Just seems like a design flaw if your home network goes loopy the HD Menu goes loopy.


This has been talk about before and unfortunately its true, the TP needs the Internet to function normally in the HDUI mode, no such requirement in the SDUI mode, that one of a number of reasons my family stills uses the SDUI on all our TPs.


----------



## proudx

I did a search to see if someone else noticed this bug too, and found this thread.
(
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9084739#post9084739

Echo:
Sometimes, when I fast forward through a program and come to a stop, the audio has an extremely echo sound. When I hit the 8-second back button the audio returns to normal. Weird. )

I too have noticed this.


----------



## crxssi

proudx said:


> I did a search to see if someone else noticed this bug too, and found this thread. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9084739#post9084739


(Thread from early October 2011)



> Sometimes, when I fast forward through a program and come to a stop, the audio has an extremely echo sound. When I hit the 8-second back button the audio returns to normal. Weird. I too have noticed this.


Do you have a home theater (amplifier) and TV audio sound going at the same time?


----------



## proudx

crxssi said:


> (Thread from early October 2011)
> 
> Do you have a home theater (amplifier) and TV audio sound going at the same time?


no, my output is component video and rca left and right analog audio out.


----------



## proudx

In Atlanta we have some ota digital audio only channels that rebroadcast local radio stations. They will not tune on the premiere but tune fine on the series 3. This problem is specific to over the air channels that contain no video and only audio. the dvr statistics show a solid signal strength and good SNR. Has a channel lock and signal lock, with no errors showing up, but the premiere just says problem with the signal on this antenna channel, it tunes the same sub-channels that have video and audio just fine.


----------



## WillH

Well, my Premiere XL finally died. After slow performance and random reboots over the past few weeks, it went TU yesterday.

See post here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9086942#post9086942

It is not a question of IF but WHEN yours will fail.....................

Make sure you get that extended warranty.


----------



## TerpBE

proudx said:


> I did a search to see if someone else noticed this bug too, and found this thread.
> (
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9084739#post9084739
> 
> Echo:
> Sometimes, when I fast forward through a program and come to a stop, the audio has an extremely echo sound. When I hit the 8-second back button the audio returns to normal. Weird. )
> 
> I too have noticed this.


I have this issue too. I always assumed it was a problem with my receiver, but considering others are having it, I guess it might be the Tivo. I'm using an old (~90s) Sony receiver with an optical audio connection.


----------



## GoEagles

WillH said:


> Well, my Premiere XL finally died. After slow performance and random reboots over the past few weeks, it went TU yesterday.
> 
> See post here:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9086942#post9086942
> 
> It is not a question of IF but WHEN yours will fail.....................
> 
> Make sure you get that extended warranty.


After only 2 years or so? Scary.


----------



## aaronwt

WillH said:


> Well, my Premiere XL finally died. After slow performance and random reboots over the past few weeks, it went TU yesterday.
> 
> See post here:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9086942#post9086942
> 
> It is not a question of IF but WHEN yours will fail.....................
> 
> Make sure you get that extended warranty.


Every device will fail at some point. hard Drives fail. Some sooner than others. But personally in over ten years with TiVos I've never had a hard drive fail. And in using hard drives for twenty years, around 200, I've also never had one fail after being put into service. Well at least not yet. But I've beat the odds so far.

Even my DirecTV TiVos that I upgraded to larger drives ten years ago are still working. I gave them to some friends years ago and they still use them daily.

And hopefully I didn't just jinx myself, since my launch Premiere XL is over 25 months old now.


----------



## wmcbrine

WillH said:


> It is not a question of IF but WHEN yours will fail.....................


Based on your sample of one?


----------



## crxssi

proudx said:


> In Atlanta we have some ota digital audio only channels that rebroadcast local radio stations. They will not tune on the premiere but tune fine on the series 3. This problem is specific to over the air channels that contain no video and only audio. the dvr statistics show a solid signal strength and good SNR. Has a channel lock and signal lock, with no errors showing up, but the premiere just says problem with the signal on this antenna channel, it tunes the same sub-channels that have video and audio just fine.


OK, that is not likely to have started as a problem in 20.2, but it is worthy of adding as an "unresolved" issue. Unfortunately, I have a feeling few areas have the ability to test/confirm it; I know in my area, there are no such audio-only stations.


----------



## crxssi

Updated to version 45.
Remember to check the first posting to see the most current version: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8891071#post8891071

Your feedback is important! Please report errors- typos, things that are missing, numbering issues, things that should not be there, miscategorizations, clarifications, etc. Note that sometimes there is a delay before items are added/removed as I attempt to clarify or verify things, or wait for others to comment or verify.

22: Added 1.2.5, 1.2.6, and 1.2.7
23: Added 3.2.8
24: Added 4.6
25: Added 3.1.2.7
26: Minor corrections
27: Broke out 3.1.3 with 3.1.3.1/3.1.3.2; Added 3.1.17, 3.1.2.8, 3.1.3.3; Edited 3.1.10, 3.1.14
28: Added 3.1.3.4
29: Removed first 3.1.17; Edited 1.2.5, 1.2.6
30: Added a new 3.1.17
31: Added 3.2.9; Edited 3.1.10
32: Added 4.7; Edited 3.2.9, 4.0, 4.1
33: Added 2.2.1, 3.1.18
34: Added 4.8 (although it needs refinement)
35: Added 2.2.2
36: Broke out 3.2.4 with renumbered 3.2.4/3.2.7; Renumbered 3.2.9 to 3.2.7; Added 3.2.4.3, 3.2.9
37: Added 1.2.8
38: Added 3.2.10
39: Added 3.1.19
40: Added more info to 3.2.7
41: Added 3.2.1.9
42: Turned 3.2.6 into a category; Renumbered 3.2.6 to 3.2.6.1, 3.2.7 to 3.2.6.2; Added new 3.2.6.3; Renumbered 3.2.10 to 3.2.7
43: Added 4.9
44: Added 4.10
45: Removed: 4.9 Renumbered 4.10 to 4.9


----------



## crxssi

Please note that a new changelog thread has been created for those changes specific to 20.2.1.1 and can be found at the following URL: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9088054

Not that this is scientific or anything, but previously I stopped editing the prior changelog when new software was released. If we discover other issues that might have been introduced in 20.2 (instead of 20.2.1.1), they can still be added to the new thread. This way, people only have to look at one thread.


----------



## ajwees41

installed one of my premieres and it's running the version that is current according to http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/311 and I don't know when I'll get 20.2.1.M4-01-2-746?


----------



## CoxInPHX

ajwees41 said:


> installed one of my premieres and it's running the version that is current according to http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/311 and I don't know when I'll get 20.2.1.M4-01-2-746?


SW Version 20.2.1.M4-01-2-746 was a leaked beta trial version prior to the current SW Version.

The current SW Version should be 20.2.1.1-01-2-7xx


----------



## pnut

Hi All,
Did the 20.2 update remove the QAM channel scan? Is there a way to force a cable scan or revert back to the earlier firmware (14.9)? All it does now is ask for a zip code. I've tried to search for more information, but I haven't come across anything (or am searching for the wrong terms). 

Backstory: I've been using the Tivo Premiere as an HD tuner for my projector without a subscription for about 9 months now. I was able to pick up the local broadcast channels in clear QAM. In the past, when selecting Cable in the guided setup, it would scan for all the available cable channels (including clear QAM), not just ask for a zip code. Our cable was cut about a month ago, so I re-ran the guided setup to use an antenna, but it fouled everything up. 

Thanks for any comments/suggestions.


----------



## crxssi

pnut said:


> Hi All,
> Did the 20.2 update remove the QAM channel scan? Is there a way to force a cable scan or revert back to the earlier firmware (14.9)? All it does now is ask for a zip code.


Are you talking about 20.2 update or 20.2.1 update? You posted to the old thread.

I can't answer the QAM question, but I am very curious to know the conclusion (once I know which version you are really using)...


----------



## lessd

crxssi said:


> Are you talking about 20.2 update or 20.2.1 update? You posted to the old thread.
> 
> I can't answer the QAM question, but I am very curious to know the conclusion (once I know which version you are really using)...


I have a TP with 20.2.1 without TiVo service and I have done the QAM scan without problems.


----------



## lpwcomp

pnut said:


> Hi All,
> Did the 20.2 update remove the QAM channel scan? Is there a way to force a cable scan or revert back to the earlier firmware (14.9)? All it does now is ask for a zip code. I've tried to search for more information, but I haven't come across anything (or am searching for the wrong terms).
> 
> Backstory: I've been using the Tivo Premiere as an HD tuner for my projector without a subscription for about 9 months now. I was able to pick up the local broadcast channels in clear QAM. In the past, when selecting Cable in the guided setup, it would scan for all the available cable channels (including clear QAM), not just ask for a zip code. Our cable was cut about a month ago, so I re-ran the guided setup to use an antenna, but it fouled everything up.
> 
> Thanks for any comments/suggestions.


Either I am misremembering or you are. Every TiVo I have ever owned over the last 10+ years asked for a zip code at the beginning of guided setup.

How did you get the update if the TiVo is unsubscribed?

What do you mean by "it fouled everything up"?


----------



## pnut

I need to doublecheck my version - I do realize I posted in an old thread, but I've been having the issue since before this latest update. I don't recall if it prompted for a zip in the past, I just know now that it doesn't QAM scan anymore, but rather picks a lineup and sets the channels that way. 

For instance, when I put in my zip, 77346, it brings up 2 Comcast lineups - basic and extended.

I guess I also need to doublecheck my cable line to that room is still working by bringing in another tv. I'll try and post back with my version tonight. Thanks for the responses.

By fouled everything up, I meant I lost all my QAM channels and the only way I get tv is by using the antenna. Prior to this, I only used cable/QAM channels, but when I did cable/antenna, I lost the original channels.


----------



## lpwcomp

pnut said:


> I need to doublecheck my version - I do realize I posted in an old thread, but I've been having the issue since before this latest update. I don't recall if it prompted for a zip in the past, I just know now that it doesn't QAM scan anymore, but rather picks a lineup and sets the channels that way.
> 
> For instance, when I put in my zip, 77346, it brings up 2 Comcast lineups - basic and extended.
> 
> I guess I also need to doublecheck my cable line to that room is still working by bringing in another tv. I'll try and post back with my version tonight. Thanks for the responses.
> 
> By fouled everything up, I meant I lost all my QAM channels and the only way I get tv is by using the antenna. Prior to this, I only used cable/QAM channels, but when I did cable/antenna, I lost the original channels.


You have me totally confused. Is the TiVo subscribed or not? How do you expect to complete guided setup on an unsubscribed TiVo? Has your cable been cut or not? Have you tried doing a manual channel scan (Settings->Channels->Channel Scan)?

BTW, IMHO *none* of the changelog threads is the appropriate place for this exchange.


----------



## pnut

lpwcomp said:


> You have me totally confused. Is the TiVo subscribed or not? How do you expect to complete guided setup on an unsubscribed TiVo? Has your cable been cut or not? Have you tried doing a manual channel scan (Settings->Channels->Channel Scan)?
> 
> BTW, IMHO *none* of the changelog threads is the appropriate place for this exchange.


Tivo is not subscribed and has never been.
Completed the guided setup in the past without any issues.
Cable was cut about a month ago and was repaired (the line running to my house). While it was out I repeated the guided setup and lost the QAM channels I previously had while trying to add OTA tv channels. I have since re-run the guided setup after my cable was restored, but didn't have the option to do a cable channel scan.
I've looked for the channel scan previously, but I do not think it's an option.

Mods feel free to delete my posts, I was more curious if anyone else was having the issue. I appreciate the responses - sorry if I upset you.


----------



## steve614

lpwcomp said:


> How do you expect to complete guided setup on an unsubscribed TiVo?


An unsubscribed Tivo has to complete guided setup, otherwise how would the Tivo know what your channel line-up is?

A Premiere will work as a dumb cable box without a subscription.


----------



## lpwcomp

steve614 said:


> An unsubscribed Tivo has to complete guided setup, otherwise how would the Tivo know what your channel line-up is?


Why does an unsubscribed TiVo need to know what the channel line-up is? You can't get guide data unless you are subscribed. You are supposed to register your TiVo before you start guided setup. When it connects to the TiVo service, if it is not subscribed, I thought it would terminate the connection. I think there may have been a 30 day period when first set up. He's way past that.



steve614 said:


> A Premiere will work as a dumb cable box without a subscription.


With no guide data. The channel scans are what finds the clear QAM channels and OTA channels. Has nothing to do with channel lineups.

I would like to ask pnut what the System Information screen has for "Tivo Service Account Status"?


----------



## pnut

lpwcomp said:


> I would like to ask pnut what the System Information screen has for "Tivo Service Account Status"?


I will check when I get home tonight.

Yes, I am able to complete the guided setup without having an account or subscription. I'm not interested in the guide or other features, I just want to be able to use the Tivo as a tuner to tune the QAM channels I have, but it's not prompting to do a channel scan on cable (only antenna).

Thanks again


----------



## lpwcomp

pnut said:


> I will check when I get home tonight.
> 
> Yes, I am able to complete the guided setup without having an account or subscription. I'm not interested in the guide or other features, I just want to be able to use the Tivo as a tuner to tune the QAM channels I have, but it's not prompting to do a channel scan on cable (only antenna).
> 
> Thanks again


As far as the channel scans are concerned, that is the correct behavior. You should be able to force a cable channel scan through the method I outlined earlier. I did one yesterday on my new Premiere. Still negotiating with Comcast about what they want to charge me.


----------



## pnut

Well I got home and found a message on Tivo saying that I have been updated with the Spring update. And wouldn't you know it, I was able to kick off a channel scan. Strange stuff - will post back with results. Thanks again for the responses.

Software Version is 20.2.1.1-01-2-746
Tivo Service Account Status is 7: Never Set Up

Channel scan was successful!


----------



## steve614

lpwcomp said:


> Why does an unsubscribed TiVo need to know what the channel line-up is? You can't get guide data unless you are subscribed. You are supposed to register your TiVo before you start guided setup. When it connects to the TiVo service, if it is not subscribed, I thought it would terminate the connection. I think there may have been a 30 day period when first set up. He's way past that.


A brand new Tivo out of the box will give you a 7 day free trial of the TiVo Service. It has to complete Guided Setup to accomplish this goal.
In general, guide data and channel line-up are separate entities. 
Any Tivo will have to go through Guided Setup (basically an enhanced channel scan) just to get the channel line-up for its location. It's the TiVo Service that maps the guide data specific to the channel line-up of the area. 
It is not like the old days when channel X appeared on frequency Y no matter where you were. An unsubscribed Tivo does not download guide data, but it does rely on correctly mapping the channel line-up for a given area. 
If your cable company puts HBO on channel 123, the Tivo needs to know that regardless of the subscription status. That way, when you enter '123' on the remote, you will be tuned to HBO. That is essentially what Guided Setup does.



lpwcomp said:


> With no guide data. The channel scans are what finds the clear QAM channels and OTA channels. Has nothing to do with channel lineups.


Tivos have never been set up to deal with QAM channels without a cable card. They are able to tune them, only there's no guide data associated with them.
I suspect TiVo has changed the software to ignore recognizing QAM channels without a cable card on unsubscribed Premieres. This would fall in line with the fact that they disabled the live TV buffers for unsubscribed Premieres.


----------



## morac

steve614 said:


> .
> It is not like the old days when channel X appeared on frequency Y no matter where you were. An unsubscribed Tivo does not download guide data, but it does rely on correctly mapping the channel line-up for a given area.
> If your cable company puts HBO on channel 123, the Tivo needs to know that regardless of the subscription status. That way, when you enter '123' on the remote, you will be tuned to HBO. That is essentially what Guided Setup does.


Actually that's what the cable card does. It decodes the channel lineup broadcast out by the cable company in the OOB data. That's why you can still tune channels via number, even if those channels have no guide data. So technically as long as a cable card is inserted, guided setup is not required for an unsubscribed TiVo. In reality it is needed since the box won't display the menus until guided setup is complete.


----------



## steve614

morac said:


> Actually that's what the cable card does. It decodes the channel lineup broadcast out by the cable company in the OOB data. That's why you can still tune channels via number, even if those channels have no guide data. So technically as long as a cable card is inserted, guided setup is not required for an unsubscribed TiVo. In reality it is needed since the box won't display the menus until guided setup is complete.


My using HBO as an example might have been in error since that is a premium channel and a cable card would be needed to correctly tune that channel.
But what about all the basic channels that can be tuned with a simple cable ready TV without a cable card? That is the issue here. The Premiere has (supposedly) lost the ability to tune QAM channels on unsubscribed boxes.
To me, this suggests TiVo is catering to the cable companies more than ever these days.


----------



## morac

steve614 said:


> My using HBO as an example might have been in error since that is a premium channel and a cable card would be needed to correctly tune that channel.
> But what about all the basic channels that can be tuned with a simple cable ready TV without a cable card? That is the issue here. The Premiere has (supposedly) lost the ability to tune QAM channels on unsubscribed boxes.
> To me, this suggests TiVo is catering to the cable companies more than ever these days.


The ability to tune QAM any channel by number is entirely dependent on whether a cableCARD is inserted or not. The cable company sends the QAM channel map embedded in the signal. The Premiere can only decode that if it has activated cards inserted. No cards, no channel map, no channels. The only reason to scan for QAM channels is if there's either no card inserted or the cable company screwed up the channel mapping. I suppose there could be a software issue preventing mapped channel that aren't in the guide from displaying like they used to, but that has nothing to do with scanning. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_cable#Channels

The guide data that the Premiere downloads simply maps program info to a specific channel number. That channel number may be incorrect or not even exist. Similarly channels can exist and be tunable without TiVo provided guide data. That's why there's a lineup issue form on TiVo's web site for fixing problems where the cable company and TiVo's (Tribune's technically) mapping don't match up.

I'll mention some cable companies encrypt (which isn't the same as copy protect) most cable channels (Comcast is starting to encrypt all channels, even basic, across their entire footprint). Encrypted channels cannot be tuned without a card.


----------



## lpwcomp

steve614 said:


> A brand new Tivo out of the box will give you a 7 day free trial of the TiVo Service. It has to complete Guided Setup to accomplish this goal.
> In general, guide data and channel line-up are separate entities.
> Any Tivo will have to go through Guided Setup (basically an enhanced channel scan) just to get the channel line-up for its location.


The channel lineup is downloaded from TiVo. It has nothing to do with a channel scan, enhanced or otherwise.


steve614 said:


> It's the TiVo Service that maps the guide data specific to the channel line-up of the area.
> It is not like the old days when channel X appeared on frequency Y no matter where you were. An unsubscribed Tivo does not download guide data, but it does rely on correctly mapping the channel line-up for a given area.
> If your cable company puts HBO on channel 123, the Tivo needs to know that regardless of the subscription status. That way, when you enter '123' on the remote, you will be tuned to HBO. That is essentially what Guided Setup does.


No, it does not. The only reason a TiVo needs a channel lineup is to associate the guide data with the proper channel. There is flat out no reason to give a channel lineup to an unsubscribed TiVo. TiVos were never intended to be used as dumb tuners.



steve614 said:


> Tivos have never been set up to deal with QAM channels without a cable card. They are able to tune them, only there's no guide data associated with them.
> I suspect TiVo has changed the software to ignore recognizing QAM channels without a cable card on unsubscribed Premieres. This would fall in line with the fact that they disabled the live TV buffers for unsubscribed Premieres.


A cable channel scan may be done automatically during guided setup if you say that you don't intend to install a CableCARD, I've never set up a digital tuner TiVo like that. You can explicitly do one, but only if you have no CableCARD installed. For the most part, what you get when you perform one is channels that are in the same format as the Broadcast channels. For instance, I currently have both 5-1 WAGADT Fox 5 News at 10:00 (the OTA channel) and 5-1 WAGA HD To be announced (the clear QAM channel) visible in the guide. The channel number and call sign are imbedded in the digital stream and are set during the channel scan. I also have 4 WAGA Fox 5 News at 10:00 and 804 WAGADT Fox 5 News at 10:00. Those are the is SD and HD cable channels respectively that 5-1 gets mapped to. That's from the TiVo channel list that got downloaded during guided setup.

Why do you think the TiVo needs your zip code and cable system? So it can select the correct channel lineup. It also asks you to verify what is on specific channels because sometimes there are minor variations even within a local cable system.

You've obviously never selected the wrong lineup during guided setup or you'd know that a channel scan has nothing to do with it. I have.

As far as pnut's particular situation is concerned, it makes no sense. How can the status be "Never Set Up" when he just finished setting it up? Especially since he's WAY past the 7 day "free" period.


----------



## steve614

lpwcomp said:


> As far as pnut's particular situation is concerned, it makes no sense. How can the status be "Never Set Up" when he just finished setting it up? Especially since he's WAY past the 7 day "free" period.


"Never Set Up" is for the TiVo Service account status, which means the DVR has never been activated with TiVo.
You can set up a Tivo without setting up an account to get service.
What happens behind the scenes during guided setup, I don't know. I just know that to the end user, it makes no difference whether the DVR is subscribed or not.
I suspect that an unsubscribed Tivo does everything that a subscribed Tivo does during Guided Setup. All the features are there, they're just "locked out" by the software.
That way if the Tivo is ever subscribed, it will instantly be ready to use.


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## L David Matheny

steve614 said:


> I suspect that an unsubscribed Tivo does everything that a subscribed Tivo does during Guided Setup. All the features are there, they're just "locked out" by the software.
> That way if the Tivo is ever subscribed, it will instantly be ready to use.


In addition, connecting to the Internet for Guided Setup could allow TiVo to install the latest and most restrictive software on the box.


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## lessd

steve614 said:


> But what about all the basic channels that can be tuned with a simple cable ready TV without a cable card? That is the issue here. The Premiere has (supposedly) lost the ability to tune QAM channels on unsubscribed boxes.
> To me, this suggests TiVo is catering to the cable companies more than ever these days.


I just did a channel scan on a never sub TiVo (way passed the 7 days) and it worked great, got all the HD network channels that Comcast has in clear QAM. The software is the newest 20.2.1. As said before you do not get any guide data and with the new software you can't get out of the HDUI menu, another restriction TiVo just put in.
So now an un-sub TiVo can scan clear QAM, can't pause or use the 30 minute buffer, and can't get out of HDUI.


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## newsposter

i dont know if this is a new feature but a new OTA was added and tivo let me know and added it automatically

when i had directv they didnt let me know of such things


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## compnurd

newsposter said:


> i dont know if this is a new feature but a new OTA was added and tivo let me know and added it automatically
> 
> when i had directv they didnt let me know of such things


No That is not new. When they get a new channel into the guide data, they send an update


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## HazelW

I only use the SD menus and have noticed the following changes that I have not seen mentioned here.

The suggestions folder used to have a special logo for all suggested recordings. Now it assigns at random logo.

The skip to tick while in FF mode sometimes skips way past the next tick.

When changing channels the banner showing the show info used to appear. Now just a channel banner with show title appears.


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## astrohip

HazelW said:


> When changing channels the banner showing the show info used to appear. Now just a channel banner with show title appears.


Not really sure if I like this one or not (I'm on SDUI also). I kinda liked the full info screen.


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## moyekj

Seems like another change with 20.2.2 is that ARWLs now record on highest numbered channels instead of lowest number channels. Recently there was a new sports channel added to my lineup with both SD channel (65) & HD channel (1065) versions, and I didn't remove the SD version from lineup yet but the ARWL is recording from the higher channel number HD channel. In the past I had to remove SD versions of channels to make sure ARWLs recorded from HD channels instead.


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## videobruce

Old thread, but current question;

Is/was there a 20.4 changelog? If so, search didn't turn up anything.


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## ajwees41

videobruce said:


> Old thread, but current question;
> 
> Is/was there a 20.4 changelog? If so, search didn't turn up anything.


http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=530236&highlight=


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## JoeKustra

That link takes me to the 20.5.2 release notes.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8891071#post8891071


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## videobruce

Yes, I did see that.


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