# SD v HD menu choice?



## tattube (Oct 24, 2010)

Been using SD menu for years on my TPXL.
When I went to access Netflix tonight a screen came up instructing me to switch to HD menus.
Does anyone know if this is Tivo trying to phase out SD menus?


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## nfrhtp (Apr 23, 2007)

Likewise encountered that for the first time tonight, on my way to Netflix. Cound not get to Netflix until I switched over to HD menus. I don't like HD menus. 

I'm going to hope that TiVo doesn't really care if I choose to miss out on the benefits of HD menus, and that they will correct the error in an upcoming update.


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## PCurry57 (Feb 27, 2012)

There are no SD menus on the Series 5 TiVo's. No further development is being a done on SD menus.


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## Alex1 (Apr 18, 2015)

Is there a fix to this new aspect problem?

I'm viewing in 480 and the recent change his completely messed up all VOD stuff (Netflix, Yahoo)

Everything is stuck in a squeezed/cropped mess and changing aspect in the video menu doesn't do anything to change it at all.


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## EnDorfinn (Apr 10, 2015)

I have what may be a related problem with my tivo premiere using an SD TV. I cannot even access video on demand, as the link is not working. When I select "video on demand", I get a standard message titled "Video applications and menus". It has the instructions about how to set up HD menus, which is not applicable to my SD TV, and the menu choice is already properly set for SD. When I click on the bottom to exit the screen, it sends me back to Tivo Central, a vicious circle. A power off/on cycle failed to restore it. Having called Tivo customer support, they told me that I would have to check my wireless adapter, which has a 55% signal, which, however, is no different than previously. They told me that I would have to hook up my Tivo box directly to ethernet, which is a big deal. I would have to take the tivo to the ethernet source and plug it in, but there is no way to hook it up to a TV there. Tivo says I can then call them and they can check signal.  The customer rep denied Tivo having done any internal program changes in last week. However, from various message posts in the community forum, it suggests to me that some internal Tivo change has caused this problem, Before I go through the hassle of the wireless check, I'll wait to see if "they" fix it somehow.


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## nfrhtp (Apr 23, 2007)

EnDorfinn said:


> Tivo says I can then call them and they can check signal. The customer rep denied Tivo having done any internal program changes in last week. However, from various message posts in the community forum, it suggests to me that some internal Tivo change has caused this problem, Before I go through the hassle of the wireless check, I'll wait to see if "they" fix it somehow.


That sounds like a smart strategy. Clearly something changed within the last couple days.

I don't mind if no further development is done on SD menus -- they give all the functionality I want.


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## anivoc (Feb 15, 2009)

That was customer dis-service. 

Nonsense that this new re-route in the menu for "tivo on demand" forcing us to choose the HD menu has anything to do with your internet connection..

Holy incompetence!

FYI My Tivo is connected via cat5 ethernet and I have the same issue...IT ISN'T THE STUPID INTERNET CONNECTION! 

It's a menu change, of course Tivo changed something...

Maybe customer dis-service didn't get the memo 

Really don't want to have to switch to HD... we have a very nice "old" 36" Cathode Ray picture tube TV and are just fine with it..

Customer service is closed now so I'll get on the horn when they are available...

Gonna be more than a little PO'd if I have to buy a new TV to use the TIVO box I purchased for my current TV 4 years ago and worked just fine until now... 


will post my findings ..sometimes you have to wonder about the way these companies operate...:down:


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

anivoc said:


> Really don't want to have to switch to HD... we have a very nice "old" 36" Cathode Ray picture tube TV and are just fine with it..
> 
> Gonna be more than a little PO'd if I have to buy a new TV to use the TIVO box I purchased for my current TV 4 years ago and worked just fine until now...


You really bought a 36" CRT 4 years ago? sorry but you are not Tivo's target demographic IMNSHO.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

dianebrat said:


> You really bought a 36" CRT 4 years ago? sorry but you are not Tivo's target demographic IMNSHO.


The TiVo was bought four years ago.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

I thought I read that you could use the menus on an SD TV? I know that with our S3's we recorded and played HD channels for years before we finally upgraded our 35" SD CRT to a new HD TV in 2010. I don't think displaying the menu's in HD would be any different. 

On the other hand, you can get a 42" Vizio from Walmart for $398. That's an inch shorter than your current 36" but almost 8" wider. Or a 46" Samsung (on their website with free store pickup) for $498 for which is 1" taller and 11" wider. For us the quality improvement of viewing in HD would be worth the extra cost and I almost wish we had done it earlier although we were saving for a much larger TV.

Scott


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## nfrhtp (Apr 23, 2007)

We have hugely enjoyed our 47" LG HD TV since we bought it 4 years ago. And we prefer Tivo's SD Menus, which have functioned great until a few days ago when something changed. 

Now, attempts to get to Video On Demand bring up the notification "Switch to HD Menus for more video and application features" and the only way to click through to Video On Demand is to switch Settings to HD Menus. I don't need any more video and application features (and don't see any more in HD Menus), and have a hard time believing that Tivo cares whether or not I continue using SD Menus. 

If Tivo support is not aware of the change then I am hoping it was just intended to be a means of promoting HD Menus, and a future change will allow us to click past the notification to view Video On Demand options via the SD Menus. If not, no big deal for us, just an annoyance requiring a visit to Settings each time we want to use Video On Demand. For those with a SD TV I understand it would be more than an annoyance.


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## EnDorfinn (Apr 10, 2015)

I want to offer a word of caution against trying an HD menu on an SD TV. Attempting to try the HD menu with altered settings obliterated the TV image into snow and distorted lines, so that I couldn't even identify what to click to go back and revert to the prior SD setting. I had to call Tivo support who helped me recover the SD image. Originally using component video connection, I was able to "force" the tivo box to automatically reset to the SD menu by temporarily switching to composite video connection, with a power off/on reset. I then manually restored the settings for the video display for the SD menu and reconnected my component video. Also, having tweeted about the issue, @tivosupport saw it and responded. They are now aware of the problem and "working" on it.


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## tasha99 (Dec 29, 2007)

I'm having the same issue. I have a newer tv but far prefer the standard menus. The HD menus remind me of the over busy ones that are on cable company dvrs--exactly what I pay tivo to avoid.


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## alansh (Jan 3, 2003)

Could be worse. The Series3 owners have lost YouTube and Amazon entirely.

Both YouTube and Amazon have made changes on the backend that will prevent older apps from working. TiVo has apparently only released updated compatible apps for the HD menus for the Premier and Roamio.


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## chauf (Feb 5, 2009)

This is what I got back from Tivo Customer Support when I asked about SD menus today.

"The video on Demand services are no longer gong to be available in the SD menus. Only the HD menus will have access to those services. I do apologize for the inconvenience."

Which is very poor for those of us who have older TV sets and cannot get the HD menus to work at all. 

*sigh* Why Tivo.... why?!?!


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

chauf said:


> *sigh* Why Tivo.... why?!?!


I imagine TiVo said to himself: "TiVo, we have a limited budget to maintain and improve our VOD menus. If we have to do them twice, we'll almost double the man-hours to develop and test duplicated menus. If we choose doing just the SD version, we're pleasing someone who isn't willing to spend money on a new television to get a greatly improved picture, so either they don't have a lot of money to spend or they don't care very much about TV. On the other hand, if we improve the HD menus we'll please someone who's willing to spend some bucks and is enthusiastic about his video experience. Paying a bonus this quarter will only happen if I get our software out on time and under budget. And I love that bonus more than life itself."

If you were in that position, what would you do?


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

ej42137 said:


> I imagine TiVo said to himself: "TiVo, we have a limited budget to maintain and improve our VOD menus. If we have to do them twice, we'll almost double the man-hours to develop and test duplicated menus.


[email protected]!!!

There is NO significant development effort required to support VOD access from the SD menus. TiVo changed the VOD access menus on Series 3 and 4 menus recently without any service upgrade at all. All Series 4/5 VOD is handled by standalone apps that can be just as easily launched from an SD menu as an HD menu.

What's difficult to develop for SD is OnePass. In fact, *I would advise all SDUI users who want to maintain an ability to revert to the SDUI at any time for any reason to avoid adding streaming folders like the plague*, as these have corrupted my SDUI shows list both times I tried to use them. Fortunately, deleting the streaming folders fixed the SDUI, but it's clear that streaming folders are not friendly to the SDUI.

*But make no mistake: OnePass is the real reason TiVo wants to force VOD users into the HDUI. TiVo, Inc. wants you to create streaming folders so they can monitor what programs you stream and add that info to their giant data mining engine, and push more targeted ads, er, um, "suggestions", at you in the assault, er, um, "discovery" bar at the top of the screen.*

*If you don't like this policy, tell TiVo support they can force into the HDUI, but they can't force you to use OnePass, and you're going to boycott that particular functionality unless/until that adopt a more subscriber friendly attitude to SDUI users.*


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

joblo said:


> [email protected]!!!
> 
> There is NO significant development effort required to support VOD access from the SD menus.


Pardon me; I did not realize you had inside information.


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

ej42137 said:


> Pardon me; I did not realize you had inside information.


Sorry, nothing personal and no offense intended.

But I don't need inside info to recognize the obvious; it doesn't require a significant development effort to create a menu hook that starts an app. If an S4 could start the Netflix or other VOD app from the SD interface last week, it could just as easily do it today if TiVo allowed it. Ive invoked the apps from both UIs and there's no difference whatsoever once you're in the app.

Now maintaining support for older and totally different apps on S2s and S3s is a different story. TiVo's hand could be forced on that issue.

But dropping SDUI VOD support on the Premieres is just TiVo Inc. putting its own business interests ahead of the convenience of its long time customers, plain and simple.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

joblo said:


> But dropping SDUI VOD support on the Premieres is just TiVo Inc. putting its own business interests ahead of the convenience of its long time customers, plain and simple.


Well? What do you call a company that doesn't consider its own business interests? Bankrupt, that's what. Particularly weighed against the interests of a group of customers who have proven that they do not intend to spend any money.


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

ej42137 said:


> Well? What do you call a company that doesn't consider its own business interests? Bankrupt, that's what.


Oh please. Allowing SDUI users to continue accessing VOD will not bankrupt the company.

And if SDUI fans drop TiVo in favor of Roku because they don't appreciate TiVo's new restrictions, that won't bankrupt TiVo, either, but neither will it help them.

TiVos attitude toward its subscribers is shortsighted and ultimately self-defeating, but they arent the first and they wont be the last company to make that mistake.


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

ej42137 said:


> Particularly weighed against the interests of a group of customers who have proven that they do not intend to spend any money.


Huh? Sorry, you lost me. Whence comes this "proof"?

Can't speak for anybody else, but I've spent plenty of money on TiVos and I'd spend a lot more if they'd enable the SDUI on S5s and/or create an opt-out for the obnoxious "discovery" bar. (An Orwellian name if ever I've heard one.)


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

joblo said:


> Huh? Sorry, you lost me. Whence comes this "proof"?
> 
> Can't speak for anybody else, but I've spent plenty of money on TiVos and I'd spend a lot more if they'd enable the SDUI on S5s and/or create an opt-out for the obnoxious "discovery" bar. (An Orwellian name if ever I've heard one.)


If you're still watching SD in 2015 you're in the group that's not spending any money; the group that is spending money has already bought HD and it toying with Ultra right now.

If you are suggesting you'd buy another Roamio only because the SDUI were to become available on it or they were to remove the discovery bar I would assume you to be disingenuous and interpret your other assertions accordingly.


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## tattube (Oct 24, 2010)

ej42137 said:


> If you're still watching SD in 2015 you're in the group that's not spending any money; the group that is spending money has already bought HD and it toying with Ultra right now.


Using SD menus does NOT mean you are watching shows in SD.
I do not like the HD menus because of all the clutter Tivo puts on each page - except, of course, those HD menu pages that are still in SD format.

Things have changed a bit since I opened this thread.
Now when I go to VOD from the SD menu I can access Xfinity on demand - and only that. No Netflix. No Amazon.
So what's up with that?

If I weren't a lifetime subscriber I would give serious thought to dropping Tivo.
As it stands right now I am considering dropping Netflix...and letting Netflix know that Tivo is the main reason for that!


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

tattube said:


> Using SD menus does NOT mean you are watching shows in SD.


However, it does prove that you haven't spent money to buy a new Roamio. My point being that any company will cater to those who will contribute to its financial health.


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## LooseWiring (Jan 6, 2003)

Yeah, we had the same problem this morning. I don't see us buying another Tivo after this.


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## tasha99 (Dec 29, 2007)

ej42137 said:


> If you're still watching SD in 2015 you're in the group that's not spending any money; the group that is spending money has already bought HD and it toying with Ultra right now.
> 
> If you are suggesting you'd buy another Roamio only because the SDUI were to become available on it or they were to remove the discovery bar I would assume you to be disingenuous and interpret your other assertions accordingly.


 The flaw in this argument is that Tivo makes its money regardless of what type of tv the Tivo user owns. Plus, I think most people using SD menus just want quiet, less cluttered menus. I doubt many people willing to pay for tivo watch TV in SD.

My dvr has lifetime service on it, but if it didn't, this would push me to the Xfinity dvr. I think tivo doesn't understand what made it appealing was its simple user interface. The HD screens are too much like other dvrs--the ones I don't like. If Tivo isn't going to be better, why have it? I've been using my Firestick since this happened for streaming.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

tattube said:


> If I weren't a lifetime subscriber I would give serious thought to dropping Tivo.
> As it stands right now I am considering dropping Netflix...and letting Netflix know that Tivo is the main reason for that!





LooseWiring said:


> Yeah, we had the same problem this morning. I don't see us buying another Tivo after this.





tasha99 said:


> My dvr has lifetime service on it, but if it didn't, this would push me to the Xfinity dvr. I think tivo doesn't understand what made it appealing was its simple user interface. The HD screens are too much like other dvrs--the ones I don't like. If Tivo isn't going to be better, why have it? I've been using my Firestick since this happened for streaming.


I suppose if you have very simple needs for a DVR then the cable vendor's DVR's might be acceptable for you although if you are on Comcast I would direct you to the threads on issues with the X1's in the DSLreports Comcast forum (reboots every night for updates is the most recent one). I assume none of the above users transfer shows to or from their TiVo since that's an advantage that TiVo has over any of the cable DVR's.

Even though I too like the simplicity of the SD menu and am use to it having had a TiVo since 2000, I would never replace my TiVo with a cable DVR.

Scott


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

tattube said:


> Using SD menus does NOT mean you are watching shows in SD.


Quite right.



> I do not like the HD menus because of all the clutter Tivo puts on each page - except, of course, those HD menu pages that are still in SD format.


Agreed. The SDUI has a higher S/N ratio and is generally faster and more efficient for doing what you need to do so you can get on with watching HD TV.



> Things have changed a bit since I opened this thread.
> Now when I go to VOD from the SD menu I can access Xfinity on demand - and only that. No Netflix. No Amazon.
> So what's up with that?


I would expect Comcast prefers being able to sell its VOD to ALL its TiVo subs, regardless of which menus they prefer, so they probably required TiVo to restore the functionality.



> If I weren't a lifetime subscriber I would give serious thought to dropping Tivo.
> As it stands right now I am considering dropping Netflix...and letting Netflix know that Tivo is the main reason for that!


Well, actually, thats probably the best leverage we have for getting it back into the SD menus.

Netflix is the ABC/CBS/FOX/NBC of streaming all rolled into one. TiVo needs Netflix a lot more that Netflix needs TiVo, so if Netflix demanded to be accessible via the SD menus, I expect TiVo would accommodate them.

It's worth noting that Netflix is the only VOD I can still access on an S3.

= = = = = = = = = = = = =



ej42137 said:


> That's a perfectly valid reason for you to prefer SD menus,


Ummm who are you to judge the validity of peoples _preferences_?

There are lots of reasons to prefer the SDUI, including but not necessarily limited to, compatibility with older remotes lacking colored buttons, easier on the eyes for those with low vision, 4:3 TV support (still pointlessly lacking in the S4 version of the HDUI), common look and feel with older machines for those still using them, compatibility with SD modulation for whole house distribution to older TVs, and increasingly, especially with the latest update, retained functionality no longer available in the HDUI, at least for now.

Because even as TiVo removes VOD from the SDUI, it is removing other stuff from the HDUI that the SDUI can still do.



> but it also suggests the other reason TiVo has for phasing them out, that is that TiVo is using some of the additional screen real estate as income producing property. I don't like it any more than you, but I don't see a strong motivation for TiVo to put any effort into the SD menus.


But this is the whole point. *MY* screen real estate is *NOT* TiVos property; its *MY PROPERTY!*

And when TiVo, in *MY* sole discretion, abuses *MY* property, they dont get to keep using *MY* property.

Look, if you were an actual live guest in my home instead of an anonymous internet poster, and you insisted on offering me unsolicited advice after I made it clear to you in every way possible that such advice was unwelcome, I would show to the door and never invite you back.

And so it is with TiVo. Insisting on imposing its suggestions on me whether I want them or not makes TiVo a rude, overbearing, obnoxious, and disrespectful guest in my home. And I will not tolerate that.

Unfortunately for me, and others like me, there are probably a lot more folks like you who will tolerate this behavior than there are of us who wont, so TiVo may indeed be unmotivated to address our concerns. I find that sad and unfortunate, but it will not motivate me to spend money on a product that offends me.



ej42137 said:


> If you're still watching SD in 2015 you're in the group that's not spending any money; the group that is spending money has already bought HD and it toying with Ultra right now.


Ive had TiVo since 2000 and HD even longer, but no, Im not toying with Ultra because my vision just isnt good enough right now to appreciate it.



> If you are suggesting you'd buy another Roamio only because the SDUI were to become available on it or they were to remove the discovery bar I would assume you to be disingenuous and interpret your other assertions accordingly.


And if you made this assumption to my face as a guest in my home, I would not only show you to the door, I would probably employ my boot heel to expedite your exit.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

joblo said:


> And if you made this assumption to my face as a guest in my home, I would not only show you to the door, I would probably employ my boot heel to expedite your exit.


Wow. You're really invested in the SDUI, I can see. To the point of threatening physical violence to someone who dares to express a different opinion.


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## tasha99 (Dec 29, 2007)

HerronScott said:


> I suppose if you have very simple needs for a DVR then the cable vendor's DVR's might be acceptable for you although if you are on Comcast I would direct you to the threads on issues with the X1's in the DSLreports Comcast forum (reboots every night for updates is the most recent one). * I assume none of the above users transfer shows to or from their TiVo since that's an advantage that TiVo has over any of the cable DVR's.
> *
> Even though I too like the simplicity of the SD menu and am use to it having had a TiVo since 2000, I would never replace my TiVo with a cable DVR.
> 
> Scott


I used to do this all the time, but now it seems like anything I want to transfer is copyright protected. So, in the rare case that I want to transfer something to watch on a trip, I use other methods (cough cough). I don't feel too guilty about it, since I pay for cable, I pay for HBO/Starz, I paid for Tivo. . . . Lots of paying for extra services and content, but less functionality and flexibility than I had even 5 years ago.


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## tattube (Oct 24, 2010)

dianebrat said:


> You really bought a 36" CRT 4 years ago? sorry but you are not Tivo's target demographic IMNSHO.


Tivos target demographic is anyone with money!


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

tattube said:


> Tivos target demographic is anyone with money!


You better watch what you say about TiVo 'cause they just deleted one of my posts because I was criticizing TiVo.


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## tattube (Oct 24, 2010)

FWIW....I spoke to Tivo CS last week and let them know how displeased I am with this unnecessary change in the SD interface. I told the rep what others here have said (at least the ones that support my opinion)...

That I would drop Tivo if I were not a lifetime subscriber
That I am considering dropping Netflix
That I will definitely let Netflix know why I am dropping them.
The rep took a few minutes to consult with whatever gods were hanging around and came back to say that they seemed to be unaware of this issue and think it may be a mistake.
I was told it would be looked into and might be corrected in the near future.

I am aware that some reps will just tell you what you want to hear just to get you off the phone, but that's not the feeling I got from this fellow.
Maybe he's really good at his job.
Time will tell.


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## tattube (Oct 24, 2010)

lujan said:


> You better watch what you say about TiVo 'cause they just deleted one of my posts because I was criticizing TiVo.


Well then they need to delete this whole thread...isn't my original post critical?
Or at the very least also delete your response for quoting me.

Just reread my first post - not really critical at all....but there are quite a few replies that are.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

lujan-
This site is not run by tivo, so that would not be the reason something was deleted here. Many of us fans criticize tivo.


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## MHunter1 (Oct 11, 2007)

tattube said:


> TiVo's target demographic is anyone with money!


I've always felt TiVo designers love watching TV as much as their customers do, and that attitude is what earned them such accolades as an Emmy award. But no further honors have been posted to their awards page since late 2013, indicating the TiVo magic may be slipping away and it's now all about conforming to consumer trends.


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## hillyard (Nov 1, 2011)

It is all about stealing your privacy!
If you op out you can not get the hd menus as they do not care about your privacy
Why do they need personal identify info to transmit some other companies guid ?

Tivo has to many apple like cult followers who think tivo can do no wrong

I have life time on my tivos, but when they were out, they will not be replaced with other tivos


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

hillyard said:


> It is all about stealing your privacy!
> If you op out you can not get the hd menus as they do not care about your privacy
> Why do they need personal identify info to transmit some other companies guid ?
> 
> ...


There is a level of analytics that have been integrated into the HD screens, so you are not incorrect...

That is the world of today, I don't think a solution exists without some capture of usage information. Just using this site provides more analytics to google than TiVo collects. All the adds you see on the sides are based on your browsing activity - we all see different content.

TiVo is capturing data to provide feedback to content owners and other groups. What shows are being recorded vs watched live. Commercials skipped... Average time between recording and watched. Usage of their own tools and systems to gauge acceptance and popularity.

All this data is aggregated and consumed as trends...

Yes, that is exactly what is happening and if you do not want that information captured then you have very few options in today's modern society.


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## tattube (Oct 24, 2010)

Well, as of yesterday the SDUI menu no longer shows VIDEO ON DEMAND.
That has been replaced with XFINITY ON DEMAND.

At least this now accurately reflects Tivos position on SD menus.
It seems that the loss of access to Netflix and other VOD providers from the SD menu was not a mistake, nor done unintentionally, as my well meaning (giving him the benefit of doubt) Tivo CSR wanted me to believe.
The mistake was by whoever rewrote the code for SD menus being too stupid to realize that they needed to change the menu line at the same time.
Or maybe they were just doing only what they were told to do?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

tattube said:


> Well, as of yesterday the SDUI menu no longer shows VIDEO ON DEMAND.
> That has been replaced with XFINITY ON DEMAND.
> 
> At least this now accurately reflects Tivos position on SD menus.
> ...


Since they removed the SD menus from the Roamio line all together, and much of the new functionality they are developing will not be ported over / work with the SD UI - I think it is safe to say this is intentional. Trying to get a CSR to provide an interpretation on corporate strategy is a waste of time - IMHO.

Assuming TiVo wants to keep the Premiere and Roamio software in sync for the long term, I would expect that SDUI on the Premiere platform will be deprecated and removed in due course.

Removing the bandage more slowly seems like a less painful strategy, but I suspect in the end the outcome will be the same.

TiVo knows exactly how many people are still using SDUI on the Premiere...


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## hughv (Nov 20, 2006)

When I got the HD message about two weeks ago I tried following the instructions and found my older TV couldn't comply, so Netflix was lost to me. Like others, customer service tried to blame my ISP and my (Ethernet) connection. They also stated TIVO had made no changes. Seemed like BS to me.
I was given two months of free service and a promise of a fix within 3-5 days.
My second call, about a week later, got me to a tech who tried to fix the problem, which resulted in a black screen which we had to fix with the "Format" button. I spent over an hour with this tech, who tried very hard, but didn't seem to know what she was doing. She also told me "About 60" customers had this problem.
I was promised a fix within 3-5 days. I told her the previous tech had promised the same thing and she said he "Hadn't escalated the problem correctly."
So, about three weeks without Netflix and things are looking bleak.


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## CrashHD (Nov 10, 2006)

ej42137 said:


> If you're still watching SD in 2015 you're in the group that's not spending any money;


I've got a new Roamio, with new lifetime service, within the last months. Lemme see....what did I spend on that...yup, I think it was money. I would have bought it with sexual favors, but the cashier insisted on money, likewise the tivo website where I purchased the lifetime service.

Even if I had an HDTV on it, I don't see the merit in this argument. I didn't spend $600 on this to look at the MENU.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

CrashHD said:


> I've got a new Roamio, with new lifetime service, within the last months. Lemme see....what did I spend on that...yup, I think it was money. I would have bought it with sexual favors, but the cashier insisted on money, likewise the tivo website where I purchased the lifetime service.


Nevertheless, the *group* which is still watching SD is the *group* that doesn't spend the money to upgrade their television monitors. Members of that group, such as your good self, may differ, but on the average that group isn't spending any money and are, as a *group*, less likely to spend money on a new Roamio.



CrashHD said:


> Even if I had an HDTV on it, I don't see the merit in this argument. I didn't spend $600 on this to look at the MENU.


More usable menus are cited over and over in these forums when people speak about why they choose to spend money on the TiVo solution over the local cable company provided DVR.

Please don't interpret this as a judgement on you a a person or upon your personal values. What I am saying is that TiVo (not I) is probably not highly valuing your desires because TiVo (not I) is likely presuming that your group (the ones watching SD programs) are not the kind of easy-spending customers every manufacturer of expensive consumer goods wants to capture. I myself think you are probably a good person with solid values for which the quality of their video display is not the most important thing in their life, as it should be. In fact my own wife will watch movies in SD and the only thing that bothers her about it is when I point out to her that all the characters look fat and she has to shush me.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I think it is simpler then that. Base functionality is changing, supported apps are being updated... At the same time the SD menus are no longer being enhanced to support the updates.

IMHO it won't be too long and the SD menus won't work on the Premiere at all.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

bradleys said:


> I think it is simpler then that. Base functionality is changing, supported apps are being updated... At the same time the SD menus are no longer being enhanced to support the updates.
> 
> IMHO it won't be too long and the SD menus won't work on the Premiere at all.


I tend to agree, but the Premiere SW will not allow you to use 480i/p with the HDUI, (at least not with HDMI), this will need to change if they drop the SDUI. The Roamio has no problem displaying the HDUI in 480i/p


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

CoxInPHX said:


> the Premiere SW will not allow you to use 480i/p with the HDUI, (at least not with HDMI),


Incorrect.

As I tried - apparently unsuccessfully - to explain in the Roamio thread, the hard software lock on the Premiere has to do with aspect ratio, *not* resolution.

You do need to have an HD resolution enabled, but you could select 480i and 1080p, and then you would see the menus and recorded content at 480i, even through HDMI, because 1080p is enabled only by app pass-through.

The HD UI menus look just fine in 480 over HDMI, btw. It's the composite output that makes them look bad, albeit perfectly usable, because the sharper font introduces higher analog frequencies that produce color moiré in the NTSC signal on older sets without good comb filters.

Now, *why* anyone would ever need to run 480 over HDMI is beyond me, because I always thought *HD*MI implied *H*igh *D*efinition support.

But I assure you (again) that the Premiere can certainly do 480 over HDMI, and it is, rather, *the requirement to set the aspect ratio to 16:9 that needs to be removed to make the HD UI on Premieres compatible with all sets.*


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## gopheritall (Mar 19, 2007)

For other NetFlix users...

I bring up the Netflix app on my phone and connect to my Tivo. It then opens Netflix and I can disconnect the phone and user Netflix per usual. I just can't launch Netflix through the menu.

I supposed it would "double" the development requirement but only for adding the option to launch Netflix. To be honest, I expect that is data driven anyway so this is likely a one time data entry thing.

The HD menus are painful and didn't offer the searching features I use in SD when I last checked. The fonts are too small for my wife to read.

I seriously don't understand why Tivo doesn't reach out to SD menu users for feedback. i joined Tivo Advisors hoping for this but to-date they only care about what movies I plan to see in theaters.

Tivo is slowly but surely losing its place in my heart. They need an Apple type revival because they are killing a superior product as they ignore the details. For example, my Tivo remotes have no numbers on them because the ink wears off. Until they reinvent themselves they will remain stagnant to declining.

IMO, someone should buy Tivo and save them from themselves.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

SD screens are depracated and I expect eventually will be removed all together from the Premiere line. Asking your opinion won't change that...


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## hillyard (Nov 1, 2011)

I use the SD menus because tivo boxes are way under powered. I have had all tivo boxes except for the romeo.
Got a launch day Elite, that has left a bad taste due to under powered and ethernet port going bad in a year and three months.
The HD screen make the tivos laggy
I dont watch sd shows but need the sd screens to use the tivo without pulling my hair out.


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## RitaFz (Jul 25, 2007)

I use the SD menu because I have an old TV, not an HD. It's a pain when ever I want to watch You Tube I have to go through changing menus.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

> Tivo has to many apple like cult followers who think tivo can do no wrong]


*That hits the nail squarely on the head!*

The same ones that feel it's perfectly alright to have a monopoly that puts a stranglehold on competition by acquiring as many copyrights as they can get their hands on..


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

If it weren't for their MSO partners I suspect the Premiere would have been phased out already. It is severely under powered and is limiting what they can do with the platform. With the S3 platform they stopped development almost immediately after the Premiere was released. The Roamio has been out for over 2 years now and the Premiere is still keeping pace with updates. Perhaps eliminating the SD menus is their way of being able to keep that going rather then just EOLing the Premiere line. 

I say embrace the HD menus. They're much faster now then they use to be, since they switched to HAXE rather then Flash, and there are some cool features you don't get with the SD menus.


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## HobokenSkier (Oct 14, 2015)

RitaFz said:


> I use the SD menu because I have an old TV, not an HD. It's a pain when ever I want to watch You Tube I have to go through changing menus.


But at this point how much is a cheap HDTV?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

So one person makes one post five months ago and you really feel a need to dig this up. For $100 I can get you an HD TV with HDMI. Now, get off my lawn!


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## HobokenSkier (Oct 14, 2015)

JoeKustra said:


> So one person makes one post five months ago and you really feel a need to dig this up. For $100 I can get you an HD TV with HDMI. Now, get off my lawn!


Craps. I've annoyed the zombie post police.

I didn't poke the zombie.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

HobokenSkier said:


> Craps. I've annoyed the zombie post police.
> 
> I didn't poke the zombie.


I was joking. The person who dug this up from its grave is known to me. I should have replied to that post, but I had too many glasses of wine.


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## vanclute (Aug 4, 2003)

Funny that this post was necro'd. My other half absolutely despises the HD menus, so we've had them disabled on our Premiere units since day 1. But our newer Roamio and Mini of course require the HD menus, so she tries very hard to never use those devices. The day we have to replace our Premier units with newer HD-only devices, or the day that TiVo completely discontinues SD menus on them (which personally I believe very strongly that they *will do* one day and there will be no undoing it), is the day we stop being a TiVo family after 15 years. I'm already looking into options to move away from TiVo as our primary media interface (currently we run all household video-based media through them by using PyTivo and Sonarr).

Personally I'm ok with the HD menus now that they aren't so god-awful slow, but the SD are still faster and easier to navigate IMO. I also agree with much (though not all) of the anti-discovery-bar sentiment, finding that it does slow down the whole UI and mostly displays shows I either couldn't care less about or in may cases, absolutely positively do not EVER want to appear on my screen as they will be highly upsetting to my other half should she see them.

Anyway, nice to add my voice to the rant here.


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