# Power Consumption?



## mohanman (Dec 18, 2007)

Hey guys, how much power does a series 3 and tivo hD use? I have looked all over the internet but cannot find an answer.

Its gotta be much better than a HTPC? My mac mini is 25 watt idle and 110 watt full CPU though, i use that for movies/pictures/music

Thanks
Mo


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Another thread said 30 watts. I've been meaning to measure mine, but just haven't had the time, and opportunity to unplug it.

-Ken


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

I measured my series 3 at 37W. With the stock drive it may be slightly different.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

The TivoHD is a few watts less than the Series3, IIRC.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

I measured my S3 at 38 watts when I first got it. The series 2 it replaced was 28 watts.


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## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

At 38 watts, and using the calculators at http://www.energyguide.com, my S3 would cost 7.8 cents per day, or $28.47 per year.

.../Ed


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## dsm42 (May 23, 2005)

I measured by S3 at 40W (39W in standby), and TIVO HD at 34W (32W in standby).

Would be nice if Tivo had a *real* standby mode (a sleep or hibernate mode that only consumed a fraction of a watt), which it could be woken from when it needed to record something...


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## jjberger2134 (Nov 20, 2002)

dsm42 said:


> Would be nice if Tivo had a *real* standby mode (a sleep or hibernate mode that only consumed a fraction of a watt), which it could be woken from when it needed to record something...


The idea of the TiVo is that it is always recording something - ie. the 30 minute live buffer. As designed, it cannot go into sleep/hibernate mode since it is recording something 24/7.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Due to a disagreement with pepco, I'm on a measure everything kick...

*Stock Tivo HD*
Reordering Season Passes: 38w
Normal usage: 36w
Tuned to two channels I don't receive: 34w
Standby: 33w
Avg over 24 hours, normal usage: 35.932w
Current Cost: $3.78/Month

*Stock S3*
Reordering Season Passes: 40w
Normal usage: 40w
Tuned to two channels I don't receive: 39w
Standby: 38w
Avg over 24 hours, normal usage: 40.358w
Current Cost: $4.41/Month

Except I haven't measured the external esata drive yet...

-Ken


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

kdmorse said:


> Due to a disagreement with pepco, I'm on a measure everything kick...
> 
> *Stock Tivo HD*
> Reordering Season Passes: 38w
> ...


With a 1Tb WD drive my series 3 (648) measures 41 watts using "Kill A Watt". In Hartford i pay a total of $0.18/Kwh so my cost is about $64/year or $5.40/month for each Series 3.


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## dalesd (Aug 2, 2001)

Just FYI, I measured my DirecTiVo power consumption with a Kill-A-Watt and it was about 40 watts. So a THD uses about the same power as the old technology. Not bad, considering how much more capable it is.


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## squint (Jun 15, 2008)

I have my THD and TV on a UPS which indicates 32W of output when the THD is recording/playing back and the TV is off.


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

For an interesting comparison, my Verizon standard definition non-DVR set top box is 500 watts, pretty much confirmed via Kill-o-watt at 478 watts. Interestingly enough, I can't measure a difference between on and off. I think off just turns off the front LED display.

Al


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

acvthree said:


> For an interesting comparison, my Verizon standard definition non-DVR set top box is 500 watts, pretty much confirmed via Kill-o-watt at 478 watts. Interestingly enough, I can't measure a difference between on and off. I think off just turns off the front LED display.
> 
> Al


Is that a typo?


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## dalesd (Aug 2, 2001)

acvthree said:


> For an interesting comparison, my Verizon standard definition non-DVR set top box is 500 watts, pretty much confirmed via Kill-o-watt at 478 watts. Interestingly enough, I can't measure a difference between on and off. I think off just turns off the front LED display.
> 
> Al


Wow, that's 4200 kWh/year. At $0.18/kWh, my rate, that's $756/year.

That's power hog. What model is it?


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## telcoman (Dec 27, 2007)

lessd said:


> With a 1Tb WD drive my series 3 (648) measures 41 watts using "Kill A Watt". In Hartford i pay a total of $0.18/Kwh so my cost is about $64/year or $5.40/month for each Series 3.


So that is the cost without ever turning on a TV?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

acvthree said:


> For an interesting comparison, my Verizon standard definition non-DVR set top box is 500 watts, pretty much confirmed via Kill-o-watt at 478 watts.


That's insane. Are you sure you aren't missing a decimal point? Or maybe including the TV? (And I mean a BIG TV?) I know it has a pass-through power port...


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## JonHB (Aug 28, 2007)

I just looked in one of the online manuals for the Verizon STB's and the picture of the back of the unit lists the specs as 500W / 4A max. That's pretty scary. 

I've been moving my kill-a-watt around the house lately checking things out and it's going on one of the VZ set top boxes tonight! Even if it only consumes half of what what ACVTHREE reports, I can replace all of my STB's (4 of them) with Tivo HD's and the Tivo's will pay for themselves!!

*Edit:* I think the 500W/4A max has to be for switched devices on the aux outlet. See this Motorola presentation that shows some power consumption levels: http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partne...nloads/settop_boxes/Motorola_Presentation.pdf Based on this data, the SD STB should use less than a Tivo.


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## dalesd (Aug 2, 2001)

JonHB said:


> I've been moving my kill-a-watt around the house lately checking things out and it's going on one of the VZ set top boxes tonight! Even if it only consumes half of what what ACVTHREE reports, I can replace all of my STB's (4 of them) with Tivo HD's and the Tivo's will pay for themselves!!


Assuming his numbers are correct, at 18c/kWh, it would pay for itself and lifetime service in one year. (YMMV)


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## Deanq4 (Sep 30, 2005)

Can someone give a Kill-a-watt reading of a DVR model... I only pay 4c/KWH, but still that is way high!!! My PC doesn't even run that much with the old style monitor.

WOW


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## JonHB (Aug 28, 2007)

Deanq4 said:


> Can someone give a Kill-a-watt reading of a DVR model... I only pay 4c/KWH, but still that is way high!!! My PC doesn't even run that much with the old style monitor.
> 
> WOW


I have both the VZ HD DVR and VZ SD STB and will test both. See the edit on my previous post though, based on the Motorola data, the numbers shouldn't be that high.


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

Please give it a test. Maybe I did something wrong (it has happened). I used a borrowed kill-o-watt and can't retest.

See if you can see a difference with it on and off.

Someone asked for the model. It is QIP2500/1006.

I was pretty amazed and wondered what people who have several TVs are doing.

Al


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## litkaj (Jun 5, 2007)

JonHB said:


> I have both the VZ HD DVR and VZ SD STB and will test both. See the edit on my previous post though, based on the Motorola data, the numbers shouldn't be that high.


They include the power available to the pass-thru power port on the back of the STBs when they quote power consumption.


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

The datasheet says 15w nominal.

http://www.motorola.com/staticfiles... 2500/_Documents/Static Files/QIP2500_New.pdf

When the kill-o-watt seemed to confirm what was on the back of the STB I didn't investigate any farther, so it is starting to appear I was wrong.

Al


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## interestingstuff (Apr 23, 2005)

Is this something perhaps we can get tivo to release the data on (or a cool, organized chart) if they haven't already (okay, I assume the data might be in various users manuals,etc. but I doubt it's organized in any one place) -- for (possibly) all their models ever produced? 

I'm particularly interested in going off-grid and probably will be doing so in a short while at one property.. and my mom has an RV... in both situations it would be helpful to know the power usage levels, which models are the most energy efficient, etc. 

Clearly Tivo's probably got the data buried somewhere.. and who knows maybe releasing the data will help to create a niche market, and increase subscribers and purchases. amongst these and similar communities. 

I'd also be interested in looking at the possibility of replacing tivo's standard AC->DC power supply with a DC->DC one, but of course that would take some hardware hacking. I don't think any Tivos ever came out with any external power supplies.


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## JonHB (Aug 28, 2007)

acvthree said:


> The datasheet says 15w nominal.
> 
> http://www.motorola.com/staticfiles... 2500/_Documents/Static Files/QIP2500_New.pdf
> 
> ...


Sounds like maybe you had a TV or something plugged into it. Either that or your reading was the total accumulated kwh that must then be divided by the time it was running to get the average.

I just did a test on the QIP2500 and it pulls a constant .23 amps. At 115 volts, this equates to 26 watts. Not exactly their stated 15w, but not huge by any stretch. I saw no variation between being in the on or off position.

With this low of power consumption, I'm not inclined to go digging in the back of my entertainment center to test the VZ HD DVR version of the STB (plus I'm packing for camping right now).


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

If you know what you are doing, you probably can adapt a DC input Mini ATX supply for TiVo, plus make a small boost regulator for the 30V tuning supply.


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

JonHB said:


> Sounds like maybe you had a TV or something plugged into it. Either that or your reading was the total accumulated kwh that must then be divided by the time it was running to get the average.


I don't have a TV connected to the STB. I think I either had the device set up to accumulated kwh as you say or just slipped a decimal in my mind when it looked so close to what was on the back of the device. I had a little adrenalin going when I thought an STB I use for 30 minutes a day in an excersize room was drawing half as much as a refrigerator.

It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it is what you THINK you know that is WRONG!

Thanks again for setting me straight.

Al


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

wmcbrine said:


> That's insane. Are you sure you aren't missing a decimal point? Or maybe including the TV? (And I mean a BIG TV?) I know it has a pass-through power port...


Insane is the word. A unit the size of a TiVo would literally be broiling hot - well over 100C - if it were dissipating 500W. A consumer electrical room heater only puts out 1500 Watts, and a 1500 Watt heat gun can easily melt lead. A 500 Watt lamp focused on a region of cloth or paper with the same surface area as a TiVo will start a fire. I've seen it happen working in the theater.

Any box the size of a DVR which internally dissipates 500 Watts will fry itself. Some TiVos get a bit hot dissipating only 45 Watts.


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## warrenn (Jun 24, 2004)

I'd really like to see a true hibernate mode for the tivo where it only wakes/records things for Now Playing. I don't need it recording the 30-minute, live tv buffer at 3 am. 

One thing it could do would be to not record live tv if a button hasn't been pressed for 60 minutes or whatever. That way it's not wasting power recording stuff when I'm not even there.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

I'd like to see true standby as a timer setting. IE start at xx:xx and end at xx:xx.

During prime time, I really like sitting down to the TV knowing Tivo has the last 30 minutes already saved. Many times it has allowed be to catch something I missed and did not record. But at 3am....useless. I'd have it shut down at 10:30pm and restart at 5pm the next day.


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## sathead (Jan 12, 2008)

In my case the "always on 24/7/365 buffer" is mostly useless.
What are the chances that two days ago I happened to leave the TiVo pre-tuned to the channel I want to buffer two days in the future ? Pretty slim. Only once or twice in the 9 months I've owned the TiVoHD was it tuned and buffering the channel I actually wanted to watch. If there was a choice.... I would have a real "off" switch where the TiVo only does it's internal housekeeping (guide updates, firmware downloads, etc) for the few minutes as needed in the wee hours of the morning- but the 30-40 watt constant load is reduced to 2-3 watts the other 23.5 hours of the day till either I turn it on or a scheduled recording is about to commence.
Electricity is $0.22/KwHr here so every watt saved helps.


PS- To those who say "it can't be done" what I described above is exactly what my cable company rental SA8300HD DVR does. Every night when I take my dog out for the last time around midnight- I hear the SA8300HD boot up- do some chores- then shut down about 20-30 minutes later. I measured it w/the Kill-A-Watt meter, in "sleep" mode it consumes 2 watts.

PPS- And as to sleep/hibernation mode being tough on the hard drive- I've had the same SA8300HD for three years now and the hard drive is still working perfectly.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

sathead said:


> In my case the "always on 24/7/365 buffer" is mostly useless.
> What are the chances that two days ago I happened to leave the TiVo pre-tuned to the channel I want to buffer two days in the future ? Pretty slim. Only once or twice in the 9 months I've owned the TiVoHD was it tuned and buffering the channel I actually wanted to watch. If there was a choice.... I would have a real "off" switch where the TiVo only does it's internal housekeeping (guide updates, firmware downloads, etc) for the few minutes as needed in the wee hours of the morning- but the 30-40 watt constant load is reduced to 2-3 watts the other 23.5 hours of the day till either I turn it on or a scheduled recording is about to commence.
> Electricity is $0.22/KwHr here so every watt saved helps.
> 
> ...


I put one of my Series 3s on a timer about year ago, turns off at 4am and back on at 4pm, 50% less power and the drive life (1Tb upgrade) will be extended about 80%. I never had any problem doing this as the TiVo updates about 5pm to 6:30pm each night, and if there is a software update the TiVo has 2 hours to install this update from 2 am to 4 am. After a year of doing this I would assume that if I was to have any problems I would have seen them by now. (I have nothing i record in that time period and we don't watch TV in that room untill the evening, the kitchen TiVo Series 3 goes 24/7)


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

lessd said:


> and the drive life (1Tb upgrade) will be extended about 80%.


On what do you base that?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

wmcbrine said:


> On what do you base that?


Because time adds some degrading of the Hard Drive you don't get twice the life by running it 50% of the time, I got this information from a tech at a Hard Drive co. He told me that if you leave a drive running 27/7 after some years without a power failure and then pull the power from the drive the park position that has not been used for years may jam the drive. I claim no expertise in this area.


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## brycenesbitt (Nov 15, 2009)

Has the Premier box improved on the energy use of TiVo, compared to the Series 2, Series 3 models?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

brycenesbitt said:


> Has the Premier box improved on the energy use of TiVo, compared to the Series 2, Series 3 models?


Yes, the Premieres have cut power consumption significantly. The 4-tuner models (newer design) even manage to use a bit less than the 2-tuner ones. I can't find the numbers right now, I wanna say low 20's, not sure.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The 2 tuner Premiere draws about 26W. The 4 tuner units draw about 19W. And the Mini only draws about 6W.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

lrhorer said:


> Insane is the word. A unit the size of a TiVo would literally be broiling hot - well over 100C - if it were dissipating 500W. A consumer electrical room heater only puts out 1500 Watts, and a 1500 Watt heat gun can easily melt lead. A 500 Watt lamp focused on a region of cloth or paper with the same surface area as a TiVo will start a fire. I've seen it happen working in the theater.
> 
> Any box the size of a DVR which internally dissipates 500 Watts will fry itself. Some TiVos get a bit hot dissipating only 45 Watts.


Super high end gaming machines at load could be doing 500W with a triple SLI setup, but they would be dissipating it with many fans through many outlets, or a liquid cooling system with a large rad.

Yes, a Verizon DVR would probably melt at that power consumption.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> The 2 tuner Premiere draws about 26W. The 4 tuner units draw about 19W. And the Mini only draws about 6W.


For comparison, my original Series 3 (with the OLED display) pulls around 40W.


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## heyted (Mar 4, 2012)

I have been turning my Premiere off nightly for over a year now by using a remote controlled power strip. I have not had any problems with the hard drive so far.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

heyted said:


> I have been turning my Premiere off nightly for over a year now by using a remote controlled power strip. I have not had any problems with the hard drive so far.


Been doing that for 5 years (without any problems) as I don't record anything between 4 am and 5PM, and if their is an update at 2 am the TiVo will automatically install and will be finished by 4am. (I just use a small digital timer)


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

Bigg said:


> Super high end gaming machines at load could be doing 500W with a triple SLI setup, but they would be dissipating it with many fans through many outlets, or a liquid cooling system with a large rad.
> 
> Yes, a Verizon DVR would probably melt at that power consumption.


My Linux workstation (a pair of 2.7ghz dual core power-hungry Xeons, three hard drives, and a huge Nvidia Quadra FX dual-dvi PCIe card driving a pair of monitors) has an 800 watt power supply. It also has SIX FANS. When I am doing something that pegs all four cores and it triggers all the fans to start up it sounds like a jet engine. The air coming from the exhaust ports is painfully hot.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

justen_m said:


> My Linux workstation (a pair of 2.7ghz dual core power-hungry Xeons, three hard drives, and a huge Nvidia Quadra FX dual-dvi PCIe card driving a pair of monitors) has an 800 watt power supply. It also has SIX FANS. When I am doing something that pegs all four cores and it triggers all the fans to start up it sounds like a jet engine. The air coming from the exhaust ports is painfully hot.


Yup there go. It's probably got quite a few fan outlets right?


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

Bigg said:


> Yup there go. It's probably got quite a few fan outlets right?


[edit] Ok 7 fans total, not 6, but I think only four outputs. The entire back of my machine.


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