# S1 Now Compatible with Digital Converter Box...?



## newskilz (Jul 11, 2008)

* UPDATED 6-26-09: TiVo in my area (North Texas) just dropped local analog guide data which did in fact remove all guide data under the method described below. So instead you will need to try and find a local cable or satellite company line up that will match what you receive in your area and then have tivo use that guide data by repeating the start up guide. I found it was easiest to use satellite as guide data (which would be the digital side-so you will still be able to tune to your OTA channels and get the guide data for them), delete all channels and then select the few that were the OTA channels (Or in my case, had to delete around 50 at a time).
*
*OK, first off, I am not trying to give false hope. I'm talking basic channels only; NOT SUB-CHANNELS * 

More like I probably just never noticed this feature before or something. Anyway, here is what I ran into this evening when I went to re-install my converter box (had to get original box RMA'd, kept freezing on me) on my Phillips S1 box.

I had 'uninstalled' the converter box and had gone back to analog broadcast OTA when I had to return my converter box (took about 3 weeks turnaround time). So I had to go back and redo 'Guided Setup'. (Previously I had searched around in my area and found an ATT-Uverse lineup that matched the regular OTA channels to get my guide data while using the converter box)

So I went into 'Guided Setup' and selected 'Cable' as my only input option, then it did a data download from TiVo. After that, I got a list something like this: 1)Comcast Cable 2)Over the Air Antenna 3)ATT-Uverse. Ok, so I selected Uverse again since that is what I used before, but go figure they changed their line up and it did not match up about 3 of my local stations, one of which I really wanted. I was like "Great".

So I go back to the original list thinking I might either try the 'Comcast Cable' or have to go back to my computer and decifer a new source for my guide data. That's when I actually noticed option #2. Over the Air Antenna. Huh? I already selected Cable as my only input! Let's try it! So I selected that option, can't remember if there was another data download or not. Then it asks me like it normally would have whether I am using a 'No Cable Box' or 'Cable Box', I select 'Cable Box' of course, then select Hughes for the manufacturer because their code works with the Apex DT250, and picked the only code they had... in 'fast input'. And away I go!!

So now that I've explained all of this, was I totally missing something before? Or perhaps because some of those cable companies have put out a 'basic cable box' that only receives the normal Digital OTA, that TiVo supported it?

I can almost guarantee I'm missing something here, but I sure hope I'm not. Since I selected Cable as my input, I shouldn't lose my guide data when the digital transition actually occurs (or completes) in June?

So to sum up all of this, I am tuning digital OTA reception using a converter box and telling my TiVo Phillips S1 that I'm using Cable as my only provider, but using Over the Air Antenna only with a cable box control. Huh?

Ok, so let me have it. I'm really stupid and this isn't going to work come June or what!? Surely it isn't that easy for us S1 folks, is it!? I just ask that you be gentle with me, I am only human after all.


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

If its working now it will work post transition, the most you should need to do is perform a rescan on the converter.

Do you get the sub channels or are you limited to the main 2 digit channel?


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## newskilz (Jul 11, 2008)

Not sure what you mean by needing to rescan with the converter post transition, since all the channels are using digital encoding to id the station (my understanding anyway, so not sure as any of that would change). Hope you are right, along with my thinking that if it works now it will work then because of the selections made.

No, unfortunately?, I do NOT get sub-channels. My main thing was that it could tune to local stations using a converter box without having to go through the hassle to find someone with the right line up, which apparently has been a problem for a lot of people. So it just made it easier because you can go this new route (to me at least). So I do get all of the regular channels, which I got before with analog tv, so in a sense, the S1 is not completely outdated, other than it can't record at a large quality level like HD. Then again, with an S1, I'm not locked into recording in HD quality so I can record more shows and use less HDD space while still maintaining crisp, clear shows.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

newskilz said:


> Not sure what you mean by needing to rescan with the converter post transition, since all the channels are using digital encoding to id the station (my understanding anyway, so not sure as any of that would change).


Many digital channels will be changing frequencies post transition. Without a re-scan, it will not find the new locations.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

newskilz said:


> No, unfortunately?, I do NOT get sub-channels.


Does it revert to the first sub-channel (i.e. 6-1 rather than 6)?


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

There is no digital channel "6". Even when only one channel is being broadcast, it shows up as "6.1". (At least that's how it does on both types of converter boxes I own, on my digital TV, and on my DVR with digital tuner.)


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

Understood, I was just looking for clarification of:



> OK, first off, I am not trying to give false hope. I'm talking basic channels only; NOT SUB-CHANNELS


But I guess none was needed since the box only has ATSC tuner.


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## Caloba (Feb 16, 2009)

I've pretty much done the same thing, Newskilz, except I've been doing it with the Digital Stream box from Radio Shack. Same deal, it can't tune into the sub channels, just the basic 2,4,5,7,9,11,13...etc here in NYC. You have to select the Everquest Cable Box (Code 10031) to control the Digital Stream box.


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## newskilz (Jul 11, 2008)

Well, I guess I just hadn't noticed it before, and much easier than what I had done before. Many on other threads around Nov. '08 had been stating to find something with a good line up to keep the guide data for the S1 non-supported use of converter boxes.

Now, with this selection, the long, hard way is no longer needed; so in theory everyone with S1's can use the converter boxes with no problem then. Excellent!! :up:



newskilz said:


> So to sum up all of this, I am tuning digital OTA reception using a converter box and telling my TiVo Phillips S1 that I'm using Cable as my only provider, but using Over the Air Antenna only with a cable box control.


Basically I never knew this before, and wondered how many others did not and are still using the hard way to get guide data based on previous posts on this forum? And dealing with deleting all of those extra channels they don't actually get, and those "line up changes" that screw everything up. Well, now none of us have to and hope we all know that.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

kb7oeb said:


> If its working now it will work post transition, the most you should need to do is perform a rescan on the converter.


I wouldn't be so sure. If that guide data is for the analog channels, and it sounds like it is, those channels are going away. So presumably they'll be removed from the guide, or TiVo will just stop sending analog OTA guide data altogether, and stop allowing that as a lineup choice (although some low-power analog stations will remain, so maybe not).


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## newskilz (Jul 11, 2008)

wmcbrine said:


> I wouldn't be so sure. If that guide data is for the analog channels, and it sounds like it is, those channels are going away. So presumably they'll be removed from the guide, or TiVo will just stop sending analog OTA guide data altogether, and stop allowing that as a lineup choice (although some low-power analog stations will remain, so maybe not).


Exactly what I'm worried about, since this was all too easy. Time will tell how they treat it I guess, and cross our fingers.


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## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

There are hacks to add new channels, add new IR commands and map the guide data to whatever channels you've added. Just because it's not on TCF doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


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## newskilz (Jul 11, 2008)

True indeed, but I don't feel like diving that far into it. Mainly because I really don't like any of the sub-channels available right now. So I could really care less for now. Perhaps later on if something comes up that I want to see on a sub-channel, then I'll worry about. Just like I could add an ethernet card to my S1, but not sure why I would want to other than a little faster download and the ability to Telnet etc, which as already stated I don't want to do at this time. Good for others though that may not know yet.


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## dcstager (Feb 16, 2002)

Have you guys explored this method:

http://www.courtesan.com/tivo/dtv.html


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## newskilz (Jul 11, 2008)

Good for some people, as mentioned earlier, but again that requires hacking the TiVo. And I'm currently inclined (too lazy to care) to do as little work as possible to keep my functionality on my S1. I'm just talking about the easiest way to keep the S1 doing what it has done.So it can tune to the original channels and still record them; as in no functionality loss for the S1 when the digital conversion is completed.

And this method I described is very easy to setup to use the converter boxes. The unclear part is whether it is using "analog" guide data or actual "digital" guide data and depending on which data it is using will determine whether this method will work once the digital transition is completed. That is all I'm interested in at this point since I have no desire to pick up sub-channels at this point.


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## newskilz (Jul 11, 2008)

Update! It would appear what I was dreading, TiVo dropped all analog local channel guide data except the low power stations (2 of them). So the method described in my OP is obsolete, for me at least.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Can you find a local ATT Uverse setup and use that? That map closest to the locals. Then you could just remove the others. Obviously, it still would not work for sub channels.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

When I used your "satellite" method, what came up for locals was only the digital ones.

The guide data should still be there for those, right?


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## newskilz (Jul 11, 2008)

magnus said:


> Can you find a local ATT Uverse setup and use that? That map closest to the locals. Then you could just remove the others. Obviously, it still would not work for sub channels.


I had *originally used that method. But no, ATT U-Verse no longer maps the channels correctly for my area Dallas/Fort Worth*. not anymore. A while back I had to RMA the converter box, and so while it was gone I was on Analog OTA. When it came back and I reinstalled the converter box to work with the S1, that's when i found the now temporary easy way to get guide data (it no longer works now that analog is pretty much gone). Anyway, ATT U-verse maps the channels wrong now if I want what is channel 33 in DFW, they put it on channel 9, and about 3 other stations are messed up, but if I recall I don't care about those, but I do use channel 33 at times.

So this evening I tried every cable line-up in my immediate area according to the internet anyway, and they all had channel 33 mapped to channel 9, so I would not have been able to use that. So, I used DirecTV. Oddly if I delete all channels and then just add back the OTA channels, it "rechecks" all of the channels. ??? Probably to keep from letting us use it as a work around So for now, I've got the lower numbers correct for what I want, but haven't seen just how many I can delete without it rechecking all of the channels again. It may be because I'm trying to do this right after guided setup, so it could still be configuring or some such. Will try to delete more channels I don't get later.


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## newskilz (Jul 11, 2008)

gastrof said:


> When I used your "satellite" method, what came up for locals was only the digital ones.
> 
> The guide data should still be there for those, right?


If I'm understanding you correctly; Yes, the guide data for the "digital" channels should be correct, since those channels are digital now. You just have to check to make sure that the channel TiVo and the satellite thinks it is, is what the channel is OTA via the converter box.

Satellite was actually showing the non-digital and digital of several channels, but I deselected the non-digital stations that I could do that with. Some of the upper channels in the DFW area did not have a separate channel denoting it being digital.

So, as long as the station per the satellite company is the same as the local channel is, Tivo will get guide data for the correct channel number and tell the converter box to tune that channel. Say, FOX is channel for here, satellites channel 4 is FOX, so it gets guide data and will change my converter box to FOX (channel 4) when it's going to record a show on FOX.

Hope that is what you were asking.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

I just wanted to make sure that nobody thought the only guide data for this method was for analogs, and thus that data would be gone.

In my area, the only OTAs listed on the satellite method WERE the digitals, and naturally they're still there, I'm assuming guide data and all. _(From the looks of things, they may end up being all my TiVo can record from, since most if not all our analog cable channels just showed up on the digital side in unscrambled QAM. This makes me think the analog side is about to go bye bye, and there's no QAM tuner I know of that'll work with my Series 1s....and I don't want to use a cable box.)_


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## newskilz (Jul 11, 2008)

You make a good point.

That kinda sucks gastrof, hopefully you can come up with a solution. I know there used to be converter boxes that had QAM on them, they just weren't coupon eligible. I can't remember right off who made them or which would be best, another topic maybe?

I'm still using plain OTA only, so just needed the right guide data with the right channel to work for me.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

Eh.

I'm only using one of the TiVos to record now. The other is just storing a bunch of stuff I already recorded. 

The one that is still being used? I only record three shows on it each week, and those are recorded off a DTVPal receiver, not cable. 

The only real "TiVo" function I'm using with the cable end of things is pausing live TV. On RARE occasion I'll record the second half of something I can't stay to see the end of.

I did find out my cable company is giving away "cheapo" digital tuners for free (two per household), and apparently those do have an RF output, which means I might still have a cable source to leave connected to the TiVo thru the RF connector, which the TiVo's currently using for cable anyway.


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## pcasher (Jun 14, 2009)

Finally fed up with intermittant hangs on our Series 1 decided to look for an alternative. I thought the DTVpal TR50 would be a good choice but couldn't find it (supposed to be available through Sears but wasn't able to find it). Did find Magnavox 2160A DVD recorder with 160 gb hd that records like a VCR which satisfies our needs:


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