# Should I buy an Ipad to watch Tivo Movies?



## Bill Freyfogle (Apr 29, 2002)

I have a Series III Tivo (also an original Series 1 from Feb 2001 that still works via the telephone line!). I was thinking of buying a new Ipad 2 and loading movies I recorded from my Tivo onto it. How well does it work? Do they come out in Hi Def?
Thanks!
Bill

P.S. I am not very tech savvy, sorry!


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

AFAIK, you would have to transcode movies to play on the iPad.. I think that's slow.. (but e.g. you could have your computer do it while you weren't using it).

Supposedly the Tivo iPad app will eventually have some support for series 3, but probably not streaming.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Sure, if you like watching movies on an Etch-a-Sketch screen. Hi-Def is completely irrelevant on such a small screen. You'd never be able to see any difference between standard def and hi-def on an iPad. In fact, standard def is overkill for an iPad. 

It's fine if you do a lot of air travel and don't want to watch the in-flight movie. It may seem cool, but it's no way to watch a movie. Movies are meant to be enjoyed on the largest screen possible, not some dinky little display.

The real question is, why are you asking us? If you like watching movies on a small screen then spend your money any way you like. Otherwise you'll get answers you may not want to hear from someone as opinionated as I am on the subject.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

mattack said:


> AFAIK, you would have to transcode movies to play on the iPad.. I think that's slow.. (but e.g. you could have your computer do it while you weren't using it).
> 
> Supposedly the Tivo iPad app will eventually have some support for series 3, but probably not streaming.


pay 25 bucks for TiVo desktop plus and it will save movies in H264 you can watch on an iPad original or iPad 2 - it will make little difference which one.

Sometimes Mr. Unnatural you just do not need that big screen experience


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Ipad2 has hdmi out capability with an optional adapter, which would also allow you to watch movies on a bigger screen, for example were you to take your ipad over to a different non-Tivo TV in your house or a TV at a friends house.


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## fastcarr (Dec 11, 2001)

I'd like to see mr. unnatural carry a 42" plasma onto an airplane to watch movies. That would be hilarious!


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## DeWitt (Jun 30, 2004)

I regularly load movies and shows onto my iPad for use when traveling. It works great and the quality is stunning. I use KMTTG with VideoRedo. Simple process. iTunes will synch them for you. Beats the selection of movies on the plane...


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

fastcarr said:


> I'd like to see mr. unnatural carry a 42" plasma onto an airplane to watch movies. That would be hilarious!


The screen size is only part of the equation. Quality audio is also a must for optimum viewing pleasure. I never watch in-flight entertainment for two reasons - 1) because the screens are too damn small and the quality varies from one screen to the next (no two LCD screens on a plane look alike and none of them look good) and 2) the audio you get from the crappy headphones is almost impossible to hear with any clarity, even if you bring your own headphones onboard.

FWIW, I just took a flight to the west coast a couple of weeks ago (actually, it was to Seattle near the OP's stomping grounds) and the guy sitting next to me had an iPad with movies loaded onto it. For the purpose of killing time and making the flight go faster, I could see the use for it. However, I couldn't stand using it on a regular basis for watching movies or recorded TV programs. It would be fine for any sort of talking head programs (news programs and such), but movies and other HDTV programs beg for the big screen. I'm used to watching video on a big screen with a quality surround system. I spend a lot of time in front of my HDTV so looking at a small screen seems like a total waste of time to me.

I'm an A/V snob. I admit it. I have standards by which I watch movies and listen to audio. I've learned to appreciate the best I can afford. If others decide to settle for less then that's their choice. My opinions are my own and are not necessarily shared by everyone. Decide for yourself what's best for you.

To the OP - I would not recommend getting an iPad for the sole purpose of watching TV or movies. However, there are far more uses for the iPad than just A/V entertainment. I would get the iPad for them and use it as a TV viewing screen only when the need arises, like the aforementioned air travel. I didn't think much of the iPad when it was first introduced but after seeing it in action on numerous occasions I can see the appeal. The only function I didn't find compelling was for TV viewing. Then again, if you enjoy watching video on a smart phone it could be a major step up.


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## DeWitt (Jun 30, 2004)

I am an AV Snob as well, but on a long plane flight what choice do you have. A good pair of ear buds (I use Etymotic) solve the audio issues and also effectively block out cabin noise.


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

Is this the only reason you are considering buying an iPad? If so, it would be overkill IMO.


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## jmemmott (Jul 12, 2003)

Obviously your best solution depends on your own needs and biases but for me the Barnes and Noble Color Nook turned out to be a more balanced solution. I bought it primarily to be an ereader. However, the hardware supports a number of codecs including H.264 baseline up to 854 X 480 with AAC. I use kmttg to automate the entire conversion process from download through encode.

Under the hood the NC runs Android 2.1. This means there is no Flash playback in the browser but the Tivo Remote app as well as the MyTivo, Netflix and You Tube websites are all useable while I am watching TV. 

Last I looked current pricing was in the $200 to $250 range.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

DeWitt said:


> I am an AV Snob as well, but on a long plane flight what choice do you have.


I have a free e-reader app on my smart phone (it's called Laputa) with an entire library of downloaded books. It serves me quite well on long flights. In fact, I look forward to the diversion as it's about the only time I have to spend reading books, except perhaps for what limited vacation I take during the year.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

ZeoTiVo said:


> pay 25 bucks for TiVo desktop plus and it will save movies in H264 you can watch on an iPad original or iPad 2 - it will make little difference which one.


Which doesn't negate anything I said.. it's still slow transcoding.


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## WizarDru (Jan 18, 2005)

mr.unnatural said:


> I have a free e-reader app on my smart phone (it's called Laputa) with an entire library of downloaded books. It serves me quite well on long flights. In fact, I look forward to the diversion as it's about the only time I have to spend reading books, except perhaps for what limited vacation I take during the year.


...wait, you don't advocate watching video on a 10" 1024x768 screen but have no problem reading a book on a 3.5" screen for an entire flight? I'd wager your preferences are not really in the main.

I wouldn't buy an iPad JUST to view TiVo videos, but it works for that purpose. Regrettably, you can no longer get VTC from the app store to view codecs that Apple didn't provide native support for. However, transferring videos into apple-friendly codecs is not hard and there are plenty of free programs to do it, if that's your desire. TiVo Desktop Plus will do it better than most, if you're willing to spend $25 for it.

For Standard Definition television, the iPad is great. For HD television, you can down-convert it. And while Mr. Unnatural can't seem to notice any difference, I note a significant difference from say "John Adams" ripped from BluRay, "Scott Pilgrim vs. The World" from iTunes and an SD show ripped from TiVo or a download (or from some of WB's early digital media, ugh). Is it the ideal, when compared to watching on a large HD screen at home? No. But when you're on the daily train or on airplane or at the gym, it works just ducky. I know several people who have iPads who feel the same.

I personally enjoy using it for Netflix, among many other things you can use it for. SD shows are quite watchable over 3G and look DVD quality over wifi. Even without network access, the iPad has lots of good games and other apps to pass the time. The Nookcolor also stands as one of the best of the iPad's competitors, presenting an inexpensive full color android tablet that also is a great ebook reader (I own a WIFI b/w nook, myself).

Obviously this ultimately falls to how you feel about watching video on a 10" screen at slightly under 720p resolution. Me, I think it looks fine. YMMV.


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## JPA2825 (May 15, 2000)

If you are a Mac devotee, iTiVo can pull from TiVo to Mac and then sync to iTunes for playback on iPad, iPhone, etc. Not a perfect solution and definitely a memory hog, but it works. 

In fact, I've even thought of recording the shows I usually watch on my iPhone in SD on the TiVo because the iTiVo transfer is so much faster for a smaller file and the quality output to the iPhone is the same.

Do folks in the Mac world like KMTTG on the Mac?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I used to use iTivo, since it has a more "Apple like" interface, and it downloads&decrypts in one step...

but nowadays I have been using kmttg much more, since it does multiple things at once (e.g. even though it downloads then decrypts, while it's decrypting, it's started downloading the next item).

Also kmttg seems to give me a *bit* more feedback about the connection to the Tivos.. (Even on a wired local network, I sure seem to have lots of weird problems with the Tivos not connecting)


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

mattack said:


> Which doesn't negate anything I said.. it's still slow transcoding.


That all depends on the PC you are using for transcoding. It doesn't take very long to trasncode HD recordings for my ZUne to play using a quad core Phenom or Core2Quad(the newer CPUs will be even faster). Plus TiVo Desktop will automatcially do it and it will also automatically sync with the Zune player. So if you used it on a regular basis, everything would be ready for you in the morning. You just grab it and go.

I would think it would take even less time to trasncode to an iPad if you are transcoding to a higher resolution than what my Zune uses.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

WizarDru said:


> ...wait, you don't advocate watching video on a 10" 1024x768 screen but have no problem reading a book on a 3.5" screen for an entire flight? I'd wager your preferences are not really in the main.


You totally missed my point. I'd prefer to read a book on a larger screen but it's more convenient to use the smart phone. I like to travel light so I don't feel the need to drag an iPad or other larger display device with me on a plane.

I watch a lot of TV shows and movies. As such, I prefer to watch them under the best conditions possible. I don't need to spend my off-hours watching video on a small screen when I can spend quality leisure time doing it under better circumstances. If I have a choice between watching video on a small screen with bad audio or on a big screen in a home theater environment, I'll opt for the big screen every time.


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## WizarDru (Jan 18, 2005)

mr.unnatural said:


> You totally missed my point. I'd prefer to read a book on a larger screen but it's more convenient to use the smart phone. I like to travel light so I don't feel the need to drag an iPad or other larger display device with me on a plane.


No, I understood your point, I just found it odd. I can understand not wanting to watch a video on a less than optimal screen...that's a personal preference. But I just find it bizarre that you don't mind reading a book on a tiny smartphone screen. I mean, what it really sounds like is that you don't view carrying any additional weight/bulk as acceptable. Which is fine, if that's your choice. I just don't think the average person would commit to the eye-straining habit of reading on a backlight smartphone screen versus an e-ink reader or an actual book. I mean, an iPad 2 weighs about 1.3 pounds, a kindle only 8.5 oz and an iPhone 4 about 4 oz. We're not talking bricks, here.

And what most people have been pointing out is that the iPad is the ideal for watching video anywhere BESIDES your home system. I watch video on the train, at the gym, in the car (when I'm not driving, natch), at my in-laws, on my lunch hour, during business trips or any other time when I otherwise don't have access to a 43" HDTV.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

DeWitt said:


> I am an AV Snob as well, but on a long plane flight what choice do you have.


Read a book. It's a much more rewarding experience in the first place.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> pay 25 bucks for TiVo desktop plus and it will save movies in H264 you can watch on an iPad original or iPad 2 - it will make little difference which one.


You seem to be assuming the OP will have no issues with the CCI byte. While a small majority of uses still have few problems with copy protection, a large minority do, and that minority is growing.



ZeoTiVo said:


> Sometimes Mr. Unnatural you just do not need that big screen experience


With very rare exceptions, I disagree.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

mr.unnatural said:


> The screen size is only part of the equation.


I agree.



mr.unnatural said:


> Quality audio is also a must for optimum viewing pleasure.


Absolutely. When I watch a video of a Space Shuttle lifting off the launch pad in my theater, it feels like an Earthquake. Give me a call when that iPad makes the aircraft seats rattle when watching a war movie. At the same time, I can hear the chirp of every frog and the beating of a dragonfly's wing when I watch Planet Earth. Good luck hearing that in an aircraft filled with screaming infants and snoring adults.



mr.unnatural said:


> I never watch in-flight entertainment for two reasons.


Oh, there are more than that. For one thing, not only are there all sorts of distractions and annoyances on the airplane, the seats are uncomfortable, and the people around you cannot in practical terms share the experience with you. A large part of the joy of watching a movie is laughing out loud, crying out loud, and making comments to the screen, most enjoyably in a shared environment, but in an unfettered one regardless. When 80% of the enjoyable aspects of the film are removed, what's the point?



mr.unnatural said:


> FWIW, I just took a flight to the west coast a couple of weeks ago (actually, it was to Seattle near the OP's stomping grounds) and the guy sitting next to me had an iPad with movies loaded onto it. For the purpose of killing time and making the flight go faster, I could see the use for it.


Has no one here ever heard of a thing called a "paperback"? They can be obtained from a used book store or on Amazon.com for about $4. Barring that, has no one ever heard of having an enjoyable conversation with the people in the adjacent seats? Sheesh!



mr.unnatural said:


> To the OP - I would not recommend getting an iPad for the sole purpose of watching TV or movies. However, there are far more uses for the iPad than just A/V entertainment.


I have been unable to come up with any of any great significance - certainly not $500 worth. I never watch TV on anything smaller than a 62" screen, and for movies I always watch a 150" screen, but even when working with a PC, I never use less than a 24" screen. There's never anything so important it can't wait until I get to my office or to my house. Most things can wait until tomorrow, or better yet next week.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

The actual size of the screen isn't the only important variable... How close your eyeballs are to the screen is important as well. It's very possible that an iPad's effective screen size will appear as large or larger than a huge HDTV.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

BrettStah said:


> The actual size of the screen isn't the only important variable... How close your eyeballs are to the screen is important as well. It's very possible that an iPad's effective screen size will appear as large or larger than a huge HDTV.


Only if one is holding it against one's nose. In the theater, I sit 2.5 meters from the screen. This is far enough to allow the muscles controlling the lens in my eyes to mostly relax, reducing eyestrain and tension. At that distance, the TV screen, which has a 3.1 meter width, covers an angular width of 64 degrees. The iPad has a width (when viewed horizontally) of approximately 20cm. In order to obtain a 64 degree viewing coverage, one would have to hold the iPad 15.8cm, or about 6 inches from one's eyes. That would not be comfortable, in the least. It also ignores the fact the highest resolution attainable by the iPad is 1024 x 768 pixels. The highest native display the iPad can show is 720i/p at 1024 x 720 pixels, or 737,280 pixels total. 1080i/p content consists of a display of 1920 x 1080 pixels, or a total of 2,073,600 pixels - more than 2.8 times the information. There is no way to recover the infromation lost when down-rezzing 1080 content to 720 content, and unless the screen is so small (like an iPad) or far away that the eye cannot resolve the additional information, all else being equal the higher resolution picture will always have greater depth and more realism.

There's a reason why a decent 1080p projector costs $4000 while an iPad costs $500.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

lrhorer said:


> Only if one is holding it against one's nose. In the theater, I sit 2.5 meters from the screen. This is far enough to allow the muscles controlling the lens in my eyes to mostly relax, reducing eyestrain and tension. At that distance, the TV screen, which has a 3.1 meter width, covers an angular width of 64 degrees.


So because you like to sit 8.2 feet from a movie theater screen, everyone else should assume that's the optimal viewing angle? The SMPTE recommends 30 degrees, and THX recommends 40 degrees, for what it's worth.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

BrettStah said:


> So because you like to sit 8.2 feet from a movie theater screen, everyone else should assume that's the optimal viewing angle?


I never said that. I merely rebutted the notion that an iPad is very likely to foster a greater viewing angle than a large screen. It's certainly possible, of course.



BrettStah said:


> The SMPTE recommends 30 degrees, and THX recommends 40 degrees, for what it's worth.


Omnimax can attain 180 degrees horizontally and 122 degrees vertically.

Even at 30 degrees, however, an individual would have to hold an iPad uncomfortably close unless one wears special glasses.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

lrhorer said:


> I never said that. I merely rebutted the notion that an iPad is very likely to foster a greater viewing angle than a large screen. It's certainly possible, of course.
> 
> Omnimax can attain 180 degrees horizontally and 122 degrees vertically.
> 
> Even at 30 degrees, however, an individual would have to hold an iPad uncomfortably close unless one wears special glasses.


I just had my wife measure how far away I'm holding the iPad in my hands... 14 inches. According to the calculator at the link below, the 9.7" iPad (that's diagonal), with the 4:3 screen ratio, will produce a 30 degree viewing angle at a distance of 1.2 feet. That is a bit over 14", if my math is correct. I can hold the iPad as close as 5-6" and not have a problem seeing it clearly without any glasses. That is likely to change as I get older, however. 

I'd be willing to bet a few bucks that for most iPad owners, their viewing angle is better while watching a movie on their iPads than it is while watching their largest TV in their house from their normal viewing distance. I have a 73" TV and I sit about 12 feet away. The same calculator that I used above says I need to be 9.9 feet away to be equal to the iPad's viewing angle.

Calculator link: http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html


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## DrewS3 (Sep 19, 2008)

ZeoTiVo said:


> pay 25 bucks for TiVo desktop plus and it will save movies in H264 you can watch on an iPad original or iPad 2 - it will make little difference which one.


The last time I used Tivo desktop, the profiles were all low quality and I couldn't customize them or add new ones. I think the best resolution was 320x240 at some low bit rate. Has this changed?


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

BrettStah said:


> I just had my wife measure how far away I'm holding the iPad in my hands... 14 inches.


Yes, a reading distance of about 25cm is roughly the lower comfortable limit for young individuals with 20/20 vision or better. Most individuals with good or corrected vision find their comfort zone to be between 25 and 40cm, variable with font size. Regardless of other factors, however, any individual who does not suffer from myopia must flex the muscles surrounding the lens in order to focus on any object less than 10 meters or so away. These muscles are very tiny, and prolonged continuous flexure of the lens will tend to result in eyestrain and fatigue.



BrettStah said:


> According to the calculator at the link below, the 9.7" iPad (that's diagonal), with the 4:3 screen ratio, will produce a 30 degree viewing angle at a distance of 1.2 feet. That is a bit over 14", if my math is correct.


Yes, the math is correct. Held horizontally, the iPad screen is 7.7" wide. I do not find such a viewing angle to be suitable for a movie, particularly one filmed in Panavision. It is roughly analogous to sitting inside a cabin in the Rocky Mountains and gazing out a window halfway across the room vs walking outside. Believe me, a 30 degree window view is nowhere nearly as splendid as the 200+ degree vista.



BrettStah said:


> I can hold the iPad as close as 5-6" and not have a problem seeing it clearly without any glasses. That is likely to change as I get older, however.


You must be under 40, in which case I can assure you it will be the case. Many people over 45 have trouble reading at full arm's length without reading glasses. Without glasses, I usually sit with a book on my knees to read it.



BrettStah said:


> I'd be willing to bet a few bucks that for most iPad owners, their viewing angle is better while watching a movie on their iPads than it is while watching their largest TV in their house from their normal viewing distance.


I shouldn't bother to hazard a guess.



BrettStah said:


> I have a 73" TV and I sit about 12 feet away. The same calculator that I used above says I need to be 9.9 feet away to be equal to the iPad's viewing angle.


As I already related to you, the recliner in which I usually sit when watching my 3.1 meter (120", or 10 feet) wide screen is 2.5 meters from the screen, or about 8 feet. There are two rows in the theater, so those sitting in the second row are a bit further back - 4.3 meters or about 14 feet. Immediately behind that (with just enough room to walk) is the video equipment. To get any further away, one must leave the theater and walk into my bedroom. Watching a video through the wall would tend to be problematical.


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

mattack said:


> I used to use iTivo, since it has a more "Apple like" interface, and it downloads&decrypts in one step...


iTivo can cut out the commercials and import directly into iTunes. You can set up a queue and let it do this overnight. Quality is fine for viewing on the iPad - use the AppleTV settings.

I've also used the Tivo Transfer tool on my Mac (comes with Roxio's Toast) with great results. You can convert movies to AppleTV format (I understand the newest version also allows iPad conversions, but I'm still using version 9).

I have the original iPad and I love it--and I also read books on it


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## Dennis Smith (May 12, 2011)

Dennis Smith from Stephen Decatur. I don't know how in the hell I stumbled across this but, HI! Our SDHS 40th reunion is the first weekend of August. Facebook has a page for the 40th. Ya gotta come. We'll find a desk we can throw out of a window. If this is really you, email me. Whew.


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## Dennis Smith (May 12, 2011)

Dennis Smith from Stephen Decatur here. I don't know how in the hell I stumbled across this but, HI! Our SDHS 40th reunion is the first weekend of August. Facebook has a page for the 40th. Ya gotta come. We'll find a desk we can throw out of a window. If this is really you, email me. Whew.


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## Bill Freyfogle (Apr 29, 2002)

Dennis, I 'm so glad you spotted me here and sent me the email! I have not seen you in 41 years!!!! We played football together in High School! Sorry I could not make the reunion but going from Seattle to Central Illinois for a reunion is a major undertaking! Thanks again!


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## JPA2825 (May 15, 2000)

lrhorer said:


> You seem to be assuming the OP will have no issues with the CCI byte. While a small majority of uses still have few problems with copy protection, a large minority do, and that minority is growing.
> 
> With very rare exceptions, I disagree.


Agree CCI byte bites!!!


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## premiereman (Aug 18, 2011)

JPA2825 said:


> Agree CCI byte bites!!!


This really puts a hurtin' on those of us who have crippled operators. I can't watch anything on my iPad!


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