# Dexter S07E12 "Surprise, Motherfckr!" 2012-Dec-16



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Well, at first I thought I was wrong about Deb dosing herself with the Xanax, since Hannah sort of admitted it to Dexter. But then when Deb told Hannah, "confess what you've done" and Hannah responded, "I will if you will" and then "all that Xanax, my how you must have trouble sleeping at night". That sounds like Hannah saying she suspects that Deb did it to herself. But Hannah could just have meant that Deb had a big bottle of Xanax that came in handy when Hannah dosed her. But the part about Deb needing to confess what she has done fits better with Deb dosing herself rather than with Deb knowing Dexter is a killer and not turning him in. I guess I now have no idea who did it.

The part about the warrants to "track the GPS" on Dexter and Deb's phone was hard to believe. I have never heard that the cell phone companies keep records of everywhere that the cell phones have been. Sure, they can probably locate a powered-on cell phone NOW if they needed to, but to keep complete records of everywhere someone has been? I don't think so. I could accept that it is routine for police to wear something that allows their position to be tracked (and have something in their car), but that does not apply here since (1) no warrant would be needed and (2) Dexter would definitely not have anything like that (not sure about Deb).

That was a highly unsatisfying way to end the season. Dexter's plan for LaGuerta was okay (although he should have stabbed Estrada with something like an icepick), except that she had to be shot with Estrada's gun. Now that LaGuerta was shot with Deb's gun, that plan is...well...shot to hell. It would hardly be credible for Deb to claim that she found LaGuerta just after she shot Estrada and then when LaGuerta began to point her gun at Deb, then Deb shot LaGuerta. Since that story cannot work, the only thing I can think of is that both bodies need to disappear in Dexter's usual manner. Except that takes time, and we saw Dexter and Deb returning to the party at a not unreasonable hour. And when LaGuerta disappears, with her car known to have been at the port, and Deb having just called in for that information, and the conflict between LaGuerta and Dexter....LaGuerta's disappearance bodes ill for the Morgans.

On second thought, maybe Deb could claim exactly what I just wrote. The story could be that LaGuerta was obsessed and wanted to frame Dexter for killing Estrada, so she shot Estrada just as Deb came in, and Deb shot LaGuerta in self-defense.


----------



## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

I think the likely story is that LaGuerta shot Estrada just as Deb showed up and she shot LaGuerta. Deb calling dispatch to find her jives with that. They need to remove any evidence that Dexter was there. Having them wander off into the middle of the New Year party doesn't seem to fit with cleaning up then calling it in though.

If Deb was messed up before, she's really going to have problems sleeping now.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Idearat said:


> Having them wander off into the middle of the New Year party doesn't seem to fit with cleaning up then calling it in though.


Yeah, that does not fit at all. Deb should have waited for Dexter to clean up and leave, then Deb calls it in and waits. She would be stuck at the scene for hours. Dexter should have made an appearance at the party then Deb could call him to come to the scene. In no version of that scenario should the pair of them show up at the party.


----------



## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Not sure I will watch next season or to the conclusion of the series. I might just record and FF through boring parts just to get gist. 

Are they setting up Hannah to be the baddie next season? Or was she letting Dexter know to come find her?


----------



## kar74 (Feb 13, 2005)

After letting last night's finale sink in, I have come to the conclusion that I will not try to understand the details but will just be happy that they finally killed off LaGuerta. Now if only Hannah would've died, too... We need a fresh start next season.


----------



## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

How could they say that LaGuerta shot Estrada? He was stabbed by Dexter just before LaGuerta arrived.

I think that Deb, not being the pro that Dex is, screwed things up by staying and shooting her. Clearly, that was not the best scenario. I'm sure it will be tidied up somehow. I will look forward to the last season, although I hoped the show would go on and not have people knowing about Dexter.

Looks like Hannah was blowing town, never to be seen again.

What struck me weird was Dexter showing up at the party in his kill clothes.

I half expected the end to be Deb shooting and us not knowing which one she shot until next season opens.


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

sharkster said:


> How could they say that LaGuerta shot Estrada? He was stabbed by Dexter just before LaGuerta arrived.


Dexter explained that to Estrada. He will shoot Estrada in the stab wound. The bullet will remove evidence of the stab. (So he said.)


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

john4200 said:


> Well, at first I thought I was wrong about Deb dosing herself with the Xanax, since Hannah sort of admitted it to Dexter. But then when Deb told Hannah, "confess what you've done" and Hannah responded, "I will if you will" and then "all that Xanax, my how you must have trouble sleeping at night". That sounds like Hannah saying she suspects that Deb did it to herself. But Hannah could just have meant that Deb had a big bottle of Xanax that came in handy when Hannah dosed her. But the part about Deb needing to confess what she has done fits better with Deb dosing herself rather than with Deb knowing Dexter is a killer and not turning him in. I guess I now have no idea who did it.


I thought it was pretty clear from the dialogue that Hannah put the medication the in the water bottle that Deb drank. Also, I thought it was pretty clear that Hannah was talking about Deb's knowledge of who Dexter was and what he had done.


----------



## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

waynomo said:


> Dexter explained that to Estrada. He will shoot Estrada in the stab wound. The bullet will remove evidence of the stab. (So he said.)


Yikes! I wonder how I missed that. Thanks


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I agree, the whole container story and timeline is far fetched and way unlike Dexter's usual methods. And he is never seen in public wearing his "kill" garb, so that was also kinda strange. 

If the bullet to kill LaGuerta was through-and-through, they just need to find the bullet fragment and shell casing, and then shoot her again in the same spot with Estrada's gun. If it's not through-and-through, that's a bigger, but not unsurmountable problem. 

I don't get why LaGuerta would shoot Estrada -- he's clean as far as the she and the law are concerned. If anything, she's shoot Dexter and let Estradad go (he'd never squeal on her that she killed Dexter).


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

So Hannah has escaped. The orchid left at Dexter's door was definitely a signal for him. I wonder if the orchid has an unusual name to signal her intentions. Something with death implying she is going to try and kill him or find me and let's run away together.

Deb has definitely crossed over. There is no going back now. The stroll at the party seemed pretty relaxed, like she was at peace with what she had done.

I wonder if Matthews will suspect something when LaGuerta shows up dead or missing? Or if anybody will.

Dexter had a good plan for incriminating LaGuerta with the killing of Estrada. It will seem tough to go that route with Deb killing LaGuerta with her service weapon.

Will someone find the DVD with Deb filling the gas tank, (wondered about that hole since the first episode) or the subpoenas for their locations? (Not worried if this is a reality or not.) It's entertainment so I can go along for the ride even if not realistic. I think they would have the locations of any calls made. I don't know about text messages sent/received.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

sharkster said:


> How could they say that LaGuerta shot Estrada? He was stabbed by Dexter just before LaGuerta arrived.
> 
> I think that Deb, not being the pro that Dex is, screwed things up by staying and shooting her. Clearly, that was not the best scenario. I'm sure it will be tidied up somehow. I will look forward to the last season, although I hoped the show would go on and not have people knowing about Dexter.
> 
> ...


I would have thought that LaGuerta would've automatically called for backup after getting the call from Estrada, and Dex should've taken that into account.

Oh well. Deb has now completely "broken bad" and I look forward to the resolution of everything in the next and final season.


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

Hank said:


> I don't get why LaGuerta would shoot Estrada -- he's clean as far as the she and the law are concerned. If anything, she's shoot Dexter and let Estradad go (he'd never squeal on her that she killed Dexter).


As LaGuerta she wouldn't. But after "trying to frame" Dexter it could make sense in Dexter's alternate reality of what was happening. Dexter planted the evidence for LaGuerta to find. She made the arrest on based on this and looked pretty irrational as she tried to explain. LaGuera killing Estrada would fit with Dexter's created alternate reality that LaGuerta was irrational and trying to frame Dexter.


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

getreal said:


> I would have thought that LaGuerta would've automatically called for backup after getting the call from Estrada, and Dex should've taken that into account.


Agreed, that would make more sense, but this is television. It is a created reality.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Hank said:


> I agree, the whole container story and timeline is far fetched and way unlike Dexter's usual methods. And he is never seen in public wearing his "kill" garb, so that was also kinda strange.


I'm sure he has been seen in his kill clothes before, but showing up at a NYE party wearing that seemed to stand out as inappropriate garb.



Hank said:


> I don't get why LaGuerta would shoot Estrada -- he's clean as far as the she and the law are concerned. If anything, she's shoot Dexter and let Estradad go (he'd never squeal on her that she killed Dexter).


The word has been circulating at the station that Maria was behind Estrada's release, as well as all the talk about her vendetta against Dex in order to clear the name of the well-established BHB, Sgt. Doakes, her former lover. And she had Dex arrested based on the idea that he had chopped up and disposed of Estrada, so it would make sense to the police that she couldn't afford to have Estrada showing up in one complete piece.



waynomo said:


> Deb has definitely crossed over. There is no going back now. The stroll at the party seemed pretty relaxed, like she was at peace with what she had done.


I could not disagree more on that point. She looked like she was deep in her own thoughts about what had just transpired. Not at all "at peace with what she had done".


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Hank said:


> If it's not through-and-through, that's a bigger, but not unsurmountable problem.


And how would that be surmountable? A third person dug the bullet out and left the scene? That does not take the heat off of Dexter and Deb.


----------



## GoHalos (Aug 30, 2006)

waynomo said:


> I thought it was pretty clear from the dialogue that Hannah put the medication the in the water bottle that Deb drank. Also, I thought it was pretty clear that Hannah was talking about Deb's knowledge of who Dexter was and what he had done.


Yes, this seemed clear to me as well.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

getreal said:


> I could not disagree more on that point. She looked like she was deep in her own thoughts about what had just transpired. Not at all "at peace with what she had done".


Right, there is no question at all that Deb was extremely upset. I don't know how anyone gets "at peace" out of that scene.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

john4200 said:


> And how would that be surmountable? A third person dug the bullet out and left the scene? That does not take the heat off of Dexter and Deb.


By Dexter/Deb digging out the bullet themselves, and shooting LaGuerta again with Estrada's gun to cover up/mask the first entry wound in the same way he was going to shoot Estrada where he was stabbed to cover up the stabbing. Dexter has an entire set of sharp knives. Sure, it wouldn't be easy (depending on where the bullet was lodged), but if anything happens along these lines, I'd bet the bullet exited and they can find it.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Hank said:


> By Dexter/Deb digging out the bullet themselves, and shooting LaGuerta again with Estrada's gun to cover up/mask the first entry wound in the same way he was going to shoot Estrada where he was stabbed to cover up the stabbing.


If that is what they did, then they had better hope the bullet did not hit a bone and cast off bullet fragments.

And Dexter better be the best surgeon in the world not to leave any evidence that a bullet was extracted. That is a lot different than a small stab wound.


----------



## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

With LaGuerta gone, will anyone recall the pending subpoena to collect Deb & Dexter's phone/GPS history?


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

john4200 said:


> If that is what they did, then they had better hope the bullet did not hit a bone and cast off bullet fragments.
> 
> And Dexter better be the best surgeon in the world not to leave any evidence that a bullet was extracted. That is a lot different than a small stab wound.


That's why I said "that's a bigger, but not unsurmountable problem."


----------



## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

waynomo said:


> So Hannah has escaped. The orchid left at Dexter's door was definitely a signal for him. I wonder if the orchid has an unusual name to signal her intentions. Something with death implying she is going to try and kill him or find me and let's run away together.
> 
> Deb has definitely crossed over. There is no going back now. The stroll at the party seemed pretty relaxed, like she was at peace with what she had done.
> 
> ...


The orchid was black. I wonder if that was some kind of death message. OTOH, I don't think she wants Dexter dead, but maybe still Deb. I think she will disappear to get off Deb's radar and sacrifice her relationship with Dexter because that's about the only choice she has. She knows that, Dexter knowing Deb will never be safe with Hannah around, she cannot be safe either.

Somewhere in the back of my head, I've been thinking that it is possible that Matthews has always known what Dexter is, what with his relationship with the family over the decades and all, plus he was the only one who also knew about Dexter's childhood situation. In my head it reads like 'he knows and doesn't have an issue with it, nor would he EVER tell anybody'.

Wonder how LaGuerta suddenly turned into a smart cop, anyway. When she was out there working as a Lt, and in other capacities, she was not too good at it.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

markp99 said:


> With LaGuerta gone, will anyone recall the pending subpoena to collect Deb & Dexter's phone/GPS history?


Nope. That will just be another one of many plot holes.

I find it totally unbelievable that Hannah wouldn't reveal Dexter to be the BHB after he had her arrested. Anybody facing a murder conviction would try and trade that info for a deal.

I knew from the beginning of the season that they would make Deb a murderer also so that she can't feel superior to Dex.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

tiams said:


> Anybody facing a murder conviction would try and trade that info for a deal.


Perhaps she always had the backup plan for escaping from custody.


----------



## DVDivo Tim (Nov 27, 2003)

It's almost like they've setup the storyline for Batista to instantly undo his retirement and become obsessed with finding LaGuerta's killer. Of course, that's barring David Zayas leaving the show as part of the retirement storyline (I haven't heard one way or another). But, who else really cares about LaGuerta enough?


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

waynomo said:


> Deb has definitely crossed over. There is no going back now. The stroll at the party seemed pretty relaxed, like she was at peace with what she had done.





getreal said:


> I could not disagree more on that point. She looked like she was deep in her own thoughts about what had just transpired. Not at all "at peace with what she had done".





john4200 said:


> Right, there is no question at all that Deb was extremely upset. I don't know how anyone gets "at peace" out of that scene.


She was extremely upset at first. I was referring to her stroll with Dexter at the NYE's party. There she did not appear upset.

However, I will retract what I said. I just re-watched it. "at peace" was probably not quite right. She was calm, but I get more the impression that she was numb inside. Maybe shell shocked. But very calm. Maybe she has accepted what she has done.


----------



## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

Deb hugged Luguerta and then had no blood on her at the party. 

Still, I liked the season for the most part. The intern was annoying and then gone, and Laguerta wa always annoying. Having Dex trying to protect Deb and then Deb protecting Dexter made for some good scenes. 

So I think the "through and through" theory holds and that they will have staged it. Still, suspicions are aroused. I wonder if the series finale could feature Lumen and Hannah in some way. 

I'm glad they did something different. The Dexter killing serial killers and the season Big Bads was getting stale for me.


----------



## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

I just watched this and as to the stroll at the end, I took it as Deb being in shock with all that had just happened.

If there is any 'truth' to them being able to trace the whereabouts of the cell phone after the fact, that's really going to cause Deb problems. Her and Dexter leaving the scene means Deb's story needs to be she was never there because had she been, she would have called in the crime scene and stayed there for the investigation. Her leaving means she can't have ever been there, period. If her cell phone puts her there, big trouble (if anyone were to actually check that, but why would there be a reason to?).

And it took until mooseAndSquirrel's post, but the first thing I thought when they were walking through the party is there is no way Deb isn't covered in LaGuerta's blood. Although...



Spoiler



in the talk with the producer they showed after the credits rolled, he said that Deb running over and embracing LaGuerta was not scripted at all - they just left the cameras rolling at the end of that shot and she did that on her own. Made for a good scene, but totally messed with the continuity when the next scene shows her dress perfectly clean.


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

JLucPicard said:


> I just watched this and as to the stroll at the end, I took it as Deb being in shock with all that had just happened.
> 
> If there is any 'truth' to them being able to trace the whereabouts of the cell phone after the fact, that's really going to cause Deb problems. Her and Dexter leaving the scene means Deb's story needs to be she was never there because had she been, she would have called in the crime scene and stayed there for the investigation. Her leaving means she can't have ever been there, period. If her cell phone puts her there, big trouble (if anyone were to actually check that, but why would there be a reason to?).
> 
> ...


But it is fiction. They could have cut before she went to hug LaGuerta or reshot it a dozen times if they needed to. If they want this to be a problem it will be. If not, then we just have to accept it. I mean we accept the rest of the premise of the show; there is a serial killer working for Miami Metro, but he only kills bad people (till now.) So accepting that somehow magically there is no blood on Deb is not a big leap. I mean I thought the same thing. It was a bit strange, but it is what it is.


----------



## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

I just hope at some point Hannah doesn't get Dexter on the table. Too predictable. Especially if that's how the series ends. I wish the Hannah storyline had wrapped up.


----------



## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

It's fiction. In the Dexter universe autopsies don't see seem to be needed if the blood spatter expert, and detectives on the scene, can figure out what happened without it. or In the Dexter universe the medical examiner is lazy and or incompetent. Want a different "solution". Estrada's gun becomes a shotgun and is more then enough to cover damage from the knife.

Some interesting comments from the producers. I'll spoilerize it but it reflects what they might do. They haven't made a decision. They don't even know if next season will be the last season. The final decision may cause them to change direction of the show during the season.



Spoiler



They'd like to bring Hannah back but don't have the actress under contract. They think Lumen is better off without Dexter in her life. Doesn't sound like she'll be back.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

From what I read, the idea that next season would be the last is coming from Showtime, not the producers themselves. But if the ratings next season stay as high as they've been, it wouldn't surprise me if the channel wanted to keep going (assuming of course that the major actors would want to continue for reasonable salaries)


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

kar74 said:


> After letting last night's finale sink in, I have come to the conclusion that I will not try to understand the details but will just be happy that they finally killed off LaGuerta. Now if only Hannah would've died, too... We need a fresh start next season.


:up:


----------



## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> From what I read, the idea that next season would be the last is coming from Showtime, not the producers themselves. But if the ratings next season stay as high as they've been, it wouldn't surprise me if the channel wanted to keep going (assuming of course that the major actors would want to continue for reasonable salaries)


At the risk of saying the obvious. Showtime doesn't have commercials. Dexter doesn't lend itself to product placement. That means the money for Dexter has to come out of whatever budget Showtime has for original programming. My understanding is actors, even those receiving reasonable salaries, get a "bump" based on how long the show has been on the air. Keeping the show on, even for one extra season, might not make sense if it means a promising new series is lost.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

If the show does not get the details right, then it is not possible for people who watch carefully to draw the right conclusions and make correct predictions about what has happened or will happen. Being able to do such things is part of the enjoyment of a show like this for many people. Just saying "it is TV" or it is "fiction" is not a good argument for the show to get the details wrong.


----------



## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

sharkster said:


> Somewhere in the back of my head, I've been thinking that it is possible that Matthews has always known what Dexter is, what with his relationship with the family over the decades and all, plus he was the only one who also knew about Dexter's childhood situation. In my head it reads like 'he knows and doesn't have an issue with it, nor would he EVER tell anybody'.


This is my belief as well. The interactions between Matthews and Dexter this season seemed like Matthews wasn't so much interrogating Dexter as he was tipping Dexter off to LaGuerta's suspicions. He also tried repeatedly to convince LaGuerta to back off. I think Matthews has known all along and doesn't mind Dexter's killing off of the bad guys.

Now, what about killing an obviously innocent person, LaGuerta? I don't think Matthews would have a problem with that either. She seriously F'ed up his career. She was a threat to Dexter. She was encouraged repeatedly to back off, but didn't.



mooseAndSquirrel said:


> The Dexter killing serial killers and the season Big Bads was getting stale for me.


I missed there being a season-wide serial killer foe for Dexter this season. I think the other seasons have generally worked well that way. The only villain I truly disliked was Travis. I had Olmos pegged as dead from his first episode, and Travis just wasn't sufficient as a villain.

This season felt a little bit soap opera. Too many meandering subplots surrounding Hannah. Too much Deb/Hannah conflict. Not a whole lot of suspense. Not enough of Dexter running around killing people.

As far as the resolution, I'll bet they will return to the scene after the New Years party and frame it up exactly as described. Deb shooting LaGuerta through a wrench into the plan, but they'll figure out how to "fix" it.

Deb and Dexter have a decent alibi, the party. Now that LaGuerta is dead, there's nobody to aggressively investigate Dexter or Deb. LaGuerta already came off as obsessed with Estrada, it's believable that she further interacted with him and they killed one another.

Perhaps Matthews can somehow rejoin the department. If not, who will be the new captain? Maybe they can introduce a new character.

As an aside, I liked seeing Doakes again. He was my favorite supporting character of the series.


----------



## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

smbaker said:


> Perhaps Matthews can somehow rejoin the department. If not, who will be the new captain? Maybe they can introduce a new character.


It would probably mess with Deb's internal moral conflict even more if they promoted her into the spot. Assuming they get away with the killing without a hint of scandal she'd easily be considered for at least a temporary replacement.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

smbaker said:


> As an aside, I liked seeing Doakes again. He was my favorite supporting character of the series.


My memory of the first season is hazy, since I haven't rewatched since it first aired. How much of the footage of Doakes/Dexter from this episode was actual flashback to previously shot scenes, and how much (if anything) was new retcon footage with the actor returning to reprise his role?


----------



## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

I remember the Doakes clips as airing season 2. I don't think anything new was shot. I don't even think any footage shot but not previously aired was used.


----------



## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Idearat said:


> It would probably mess with Deb's internal moral conflict even more if they promoted her into the spot. Assuming they get away with the killing without a hint of scandal she'd easily be considered for at least a temporary replacement.


Moving her to that post has three problems:

1) She's even more unqualified to be captain than she was to be lieutenant

2) It removes her from the central location of the series. As soon as LaGuerta became captain, she pretty much disappeared from the spotlight and the moment she came back, she was promptly killed off.

3) Who would they make lieutenant? Quinn?


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

smbaker said:


> As an aside, I liked seeing Doakes again. He was my favorite supporting character of the series.


I found the flashbacks distracting, almost like they had some time they had to fill.

BTW - I did read that season 8 would be the final season. (Don't remember where now.) But it seemed pretty conclusive. I could have sworn they also said they knew how it was going to end.

And to the point about budgets for shows, the main reason I subscribe to Showtime is for Dexter. I don't know if they can track this info, but it would be a reason to bring it back for a season 9. (Doubting it will happen, but you never know.)


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

john4200 said:


> If the show does not get the details right, then it is not possible for people who watch carefully to draw the right conclusions and make correct predictions about what has happened or will happen. Being able to do such things is part of the enjoyment of a show like this for many people. Just saying "it is TV" or it is "fiction" is not a good argument for the show to get the details wrong.


There are a ton of holes that aren't realistic to how real police operate. You happened to notice one. There have been a bunch of times during Dexter that I have said that doesn't make sense except to allow this plot line to develop, etc.

Just saying all these cop shows on TV are all fiction. They are very loosely based on how the police operate. They take lots of liberties. (The Wire is the one exception from what I understand.)

Even Masuka coming back with the results of the DNA evidence so quickly is a fiction. It doesn't matter. They needed it to move the plot. The whole timing of arresting Dexter before she had all her ducks in a row doesn't make sense.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

waynomo said:


> There are a ton of holes that aren't realistic to how real police operate. You happened to notice one.


WTF are you talking about? I noticed "one"? One what, exactly?


----------



## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

waynomo said:


> And to the point about budgets for shows, the main reason I subscribe to Showtime is for Dexter. I don't know if they can track this info, but it would be a reason to bring it back for a season 9. (Doubting it will happen, but you never know.)


Once upon a time I'd cancel HBO when the Sopranos ended, start it back up when it came back.


----------



## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

john4200 said:


> If the show does not get the details right, then it is not possible for people who watch carefully to draw the right conclusions and make correct predictions about what has happened or will happen. Being able to do such things is part of the enjoyment of a show like this for many people. Just saying "it is TV" or it is "fiction" is not a good argument for the show to get the details wrong.


Just TV or just fiction is a "short cut" way of saying a show doesn't even attempt to be realistic. There are non-fiction shows which are generally accurate (Apollo 13), fiction shows which try to be realistic and shows like Dexter which doesn't see the need to get details correct because it's not that kind of show. Accuracy isn't an element of the show.

I don't think you can go more then a couple of minutes without finding something which isn't right. Viewers looking for accurate details probably can't enjoy a show like Dexter.

Getting DNA results faster then possible in "real life" is a technique to collapse the time line in order to tell a story better.


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

john4200 said:


> WTF are you talking about? I noticed "one"? One what, exactly?


Sorry. One detail that was off. I call that a hole.


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

BTW - I suppose others noticed this message at the beginning of Sunday's broadcast. I thought this was pretty funny given the show Dexter is. I think everyone knows what they are getting into by watching it. I don't think the tragedy in CT would change that.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

lew said:


> Getting DNA results faster then possible in "real life" is a technique to collapse the time line in order to tell a story better.


That is not the sort of detail I am talking about.


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

lew said:


> Getting DNA results faster then possible in "real life" is a technique to collapse the time line in order to tell a story better.


Exactly. It's convenient for the story. They certainly couldn't have Deb walk through the NYE's crowd with blood on her dress without arousing some suspicion. I am happy to go along with that ride to see where we end up.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

waynomo said:


> Sorry. One detail that was off. I call that a hole.


WTF are you talking about?


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

waynomo said:


> BTW - I suppose others noticed this message at the beginning of Sunday's broadcast. I thought this was pretty funny given the show Dexter is. I think everyone knows what they are getting into by watching it. I don't think the tragedy in CT would change that.


In order to avoid any type of spoiler for other shows...



Spoiler



I'm surprised that message wasn't displayed before some other shows that had even more troubling images. I'll just leave it at that, if you know what I'm referring to.


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

john4200 said:


> If the show does not get the details right, then it is not possible for people who watch carefully to draw the right conclusions and make correct predictions about what has happened or will happen. Being able to do such things is part of the enjoyment of a show like this for many people. Just saying "it is TV" or it is "fiction" is not a good argument for the show to get the details wrong.





john4200 said:


> WTF are you talking about?


You were complaining about not getting the details right. I was pointing out that these shows all have a ton of holes (details not right) in them. I have no problem going were the writers/directors want me to go. That's just me.

Which detail(s) bothered you? I don't recall if you mentioned specifics or where just chiming in?

Did you watch The Wire? I haven't watched by my understanding it was a lot more realistic than most TV cop shows. (I do have the DVDs and plan to watch it.)


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

waynomo said:


> Which detail(s) bothered you? I don't recall if you mentioned specifics or where just chiming in?


You're hilarious.


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

john4200 said:


> You're hilarious.


Please let me in on the joke.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

waynomo said:


> So Hannah has escaped. The orchid left at Dexter's door was definitely a signal for him. I wonder if the orchid has an unusual name to signal her intentions. Something with death implying she is going to try and kill him or find me and let's run away together.





sharkster said:


> The orchid was black. I wonder if that was some kind of death message. OTOH, I don't think she wants Dexter dead, but maybe still Deb. I think she will disappear to get off Deb's radar and sacrifice her relationship with Dexter because that's about the only choice she has. She knows that, Dexter knowing Deb will never be safe with Hannah around, she cannot be safe either.


It's the same flower she gave him at the beginning of the season and has been sitting on his desk, in his apartment, ever since. I think it was just a way for her to tell him she's out and still loves him. I don't think she has any intention of killing Dexter. Deb on the other hand... she definitely seems like the type to want to get the competition out of the way.

As for the whole end scenario... It was a little contrived. His original plan to stab Estrada and then shot him through the same hole was stupid. I'm sure they'd be able to tell there were two distinct wounds. Also the angles would have been all off. If he had shot LeGuradia with Estrada's gun with both of them on the floor, like he was lining up, it wouldn't have looked like they shot each other like he said. It would have been pretty obvious they were framed. And the way Deb shot LaGuardia on the ground would be pretty obvious as well. If they want it to be forensically feasable I think they'd need to get rid of the bodies, but with Deb calling it in and LaGuardia going after Dexter publically I'm not sure they could do that without serious attention coming their way. I'm actually wondering how they plan to make that work. If they hadn't shown them at the party at the end then they could have done all sorts of stuff, but with that ending they kind of backed themselves into a corner.

Dan


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

waynomo said:


> Please let me in on the joke.


Only someone who pays attention to details would get it.


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

john4200 said:


> Only someone who pays attention to details would get it.


I do get it now.  That actually was pretty funny albeit unintentional. I subconsciously do that every now and then.

And I didn't say I didn't pay attention to the details. I just don't let them get in the way of me enjoying the program.

I am still curious as to which details bother you.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

waynomo said:


> BTW - I suppose others noticed this message at the beginning of Sunday's broadcast. I thought this was pretty funny given the show Dexter is. I think everyone knows what they are getting into by watching it. I don't think the tragedy in CT would change that.


That warning doesn't even make sense. It is worded so it sounds like the show will contain graphic images BECAUSE of the CT tragedy.


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Jennifer Carpenter should be nominated for an Emmy already.


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

tiams said:


> That warning doesn't even make sense. It is worded so it sounds like the show will contain graphic images BECAUSE of the CT tragedy.


Agreed. It sounds like they added the images.


----------



## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

I was disappointed. I think a good series finale could have been that scene, and Deb actually choosing to shoot Dexter, then holding him then roll credits.

This was so incredibly sloppy and rushed, even for this show, that it is a disappointment.

I still think Deb did choose to "poison" herself and that Hannah was playing her cards close b/c that's how she survives.

I'm sure I'll tune in next season, still kinda fun to watch, just not near the high caliber of TV that it once was.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

getreal said:


> I would have thought that LaGuerta would've automatically called for backup after getting the call from Estrada, and Dex should've taken that into account.


That's immediately what I thought, too. I think Dexter's whole plan at the end looked like amateur hour. Completely out-of-character for someone normally so fastidious with his planning and execution.


markp99 said:


> With LaGuerta gone, will anyone recall the pending subpoena to collect Deb & Dexter's phone/GPS history?


It will be interesting to see, since the copy at LaGuerta's house certainly wasn't the only copy. There will be copies on file at the PD and probably at the court as well, so it's not like killing LaGuerta and shredding that warrant removes all evidence against Dexter and Deb.


smbaker said:


> As an aside, I liked seeing Doakes again. He was my favorite supporting character of the series.


Totally agree with this. Doakes was a great character, and seeing him again in this episode reminded me how dynamic he was, and how wooden the majority of the supporting players are when compared to him.


Fahtrim said:


> I still think Deb did choose to "poison" herself and that Hannah was playing her cards close b/c that's how she survives.


Even after Hannah admitted that she did it when Dexter went to the jail and questioned her about it?


----------



## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Even after Hannah admitted that she did it when Dexter went to the jail and questioned her about it?


I think they made her admission intentionally nebulous. I agree that yes, she gave the appearance of copping to the drugging. But she did it in a pretty passive manner, with about as much weight as "Yeah, sure, whatever".


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

Idearat said:


> I think they made her admission intentionally nebulous. I agree that yes, she gave the appearance of copping to the drugging. But she did it in a pretty passive manner, with about as much weight as "Yeah, sure, whatever".


I don't agree, but I am not going to get my Bushmaster AR-15 and shoot you down over it either. 

It is a possibility, but I think slim. As opposed to real hints that Deb could have poisoned herself, but which proved misleading.

I admit that I am the happy gullible puppy. I believe what they want me to believe till I am hit over the head with a 2 x 4.

Time will tell.


----------



## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

The subpena on the cell phone GPS records is a plot device. Tells us, and the characters, LaGuerta is on the right direction. That she'll have official proof in the near future. Dexter has to do something NOW.

Would it make posters happier if she said she ordered the Deb's official car GPS data from the archives? Was going to have Deb's car taken to the garage so the data on the onboard computer could be downloaded.? Saying she ordered the subpenas is a quicker and easier way of making the point. 

Good chance Deb's cell phone is owned by Miami Metro and a subpena isn't required. If GPS cell records are being kept Miami Metro would have access without a needing a subpena and probably without even having to contact the phone company.

What will happen with the subpena. Whatever the writers want. Quinn, or someone else, will see it and run with it OR...Laguerta will be thought of as a mentally ill person who was going to kill Estrada and frame Dexter. The subpenas will go in the trash.

I know it's only fiction but it's amazing how much time is being spent trying to reopen a case which has been closed for more then 5 years and a case which was closed for what maybe a year.

A better question. How much of our GPS data does Google retain?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I think what happened in that conversation is that at first she was wondering if she could get away with denying it, so she played it cagey. Then she realized that Dexter was on to her and wasn't going to believe her if she lied, so she gave up and confessed.

I don't think there's meant to be any doubt that she did it. I really never did...if Deb did it, then she is the greatest criminal mastermind in the history of crime to pull off such an elaborate and dangerous hoax, allowing herself to be badly but not fatally injured. And Deb has never been any kind of genius. When she's good, it's because she has a hunch and just can't let go, not because she out-thinks everybody.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I really never did...if Deb did it, then she is the greatest criminal mastermind in the history of crime to pull off such an elaborate and dangerous hoax, allowing herself to be badly but not fatally injured.


That's a huge exaggeration. It would not be so difficult. Deb had the pills already. It had been mentioned in a previous episode that Hannah may have drugged someone to have a car accident, so Deb did not have to invent that idea. The drug was supposed to be concentrated enough to knock her out quickly. All she had to do was find a deserted road and drive slowly. The chances of survival would be pretty good if it was a level road with little but trees to hit (and she was wearing her seatbelt and the car had airbags). If she was smart enough, she could have even crashed it intentionally (get the car into position, take a big drink of water, then crash before the drug can knock her out).

As upset and obsessed a state of mind as Deb was in (she even said she would do anything), it is a risk she may have been willing to take.



> I think what happened in that conversation is that at first she was wondering if she could get away with denying it, so she played it cagey. Then she realized that Dexter was on to her and wasn't going to believe her if she lied, so she gave up and confessed.


That is what I thought when I heard that conversation. But after hearing Hannah's subsequent conversation with Deb at the courthouse, I started to wonder whether Hannah thought that Deb did it to herself and she had just been wondering whether Dexter would believe that Deb did it herself, and decided he would not believe, so she may as well not bother denying it.

I could see it going either way now. Before this episode, I was 90% certain Deb did it. Now I'm only 50%.


----------



## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

john4200 said:


> But after hearing Hannah's subsequent conversation with Deb at the courthouse, I started to wonder whether Hannah thought that Deb did it to herself and she had just been wondering whether Dexter would believe that Deb did it herself, and decided he would not believe, so she may as well not bother denying it.
> 
> I could see it going either way now. Before this episode, I was 90% certain Deb did it. Now I'm only 50%.


My thought. Hannah was basically saying I know you use Xanax. You die from Xanax overdose and everyone, maybe including your brother, will think it's a suicide or accidental overdose.

Hannah was sort of practicing what she'd say when/if Deb dies.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

lew said:


> My thought. Hannah was basically saying I know you use Xanax. You die from Xanax overdose and everyone, maybe including your brother, will think it's a suicide or accidental overdose.
> 
> Hannah was sort of practicing what she'd say when/if Deb dies.


That makes no sense. Deb was already dosed with Xanax, and Hannah got blamed for it. Why would Hannah think that if Deb again gets dosed and dies by Xanax, that Hannah would not again be blamed for it?


----------



## Sacrilegium (Dec 14, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> If he had shot LeGuradia with Estrada's gun
> 
> And the way Deb shot LaGuardia on the ground would be pretty obvious
> 
> with Deb calling it in and LaGuardia going after Dexter


I don't recall any airport scenes in the finale.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Sacrilegium said:


> I don't recall any airport scenes in the finale.


ReLAX.


----------



## Sacrilegium (Dec 14, 2006)

danterner said:


> ReLAX.


I hate myself for liking this.


----------



## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

john4200 said:


> That makes no sense. Deb was already dosed with Xanax, and Hannah got blamed for it. Why would Hannah think that if Deb again gets dosed and dies by Xanax, that Hannah would not again be blamed for it?


Had Dexter, or anyone else, accused Hannah the fact that Debra had a script for Xanax and was taking a lot of it would have come out. Dexter was "point on notice" that blaming Hannah wouldn't "stick" (unless the writers want it to stick)


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

lew said:


> Had Dexter, or anyone else, accused Hannah the fact that Debra had a script for Xanax and was taking a lot of it would have come out. Dexter was "point on notice" that blaming Hannah wouldn't "stick" (unless the writers want it to stick)


 Are you saying it was supposed to be a secret that Deb had a prescription for Xanax? I don't think so. It's a perfectly normal thing. Probably half the police force has a prescription for something like that.


----------



## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Are you saying it was supposed to be a secret that Deb had a prescription for Xanax? I don't think so. It's a perfectly normal thing. Probably half the police force has a prescription for something like that.


I assumed the secret was the fact that she was abusing Xanax. Popping the pills like candy. Hannah was in the apartment, saw the date of the script on the bottle and how few pills were left.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

lew said:


> I assumed the secret was the fact that she was abusing Xanax. Popping the pills like candy.


But she wasn't. That's the thing. She was being pretty responsible with them, and Hannah drugged her.


----------



## Lee 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

smbaker said:


> Moving her to that post has three problems:
> 
> 1) She's even more unqualified to be captain than she was to be lieutenant
> 
> ...


Angel.


----------



## Lee 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Cainebj said:


> Jennifer Carpenter should be nominated for an Emmy already.


Didn't she and Hall get married and then divorced during the run of the show? Anyone who could believably handle the nuances of that messed up onscreen relationship while dealing with an IRL relationship with the same person would definitely have my Emmy vote. That must have been miserable.


----------



## Agatha Mystery (Feb 12, 2002)

I got behind on watching, so I ended up watching several episodes over the weekend. I immediately looked at my spouse and said "she should be covered in blood" when Deb hugged LaGuerta. I saw a little snippet afterward of the director (or maybe producer) saying that Jennifer Carpenter wasn't directed to hug LaGuerta after shooting her. She just went and did it in the moment. I guess it is possible to hug someone like that without getting blood on you, but you'd have to be careful and Deb wasn't.

there really isn't any good way to cover up this one. Deb needed to keep it together and say that she caught LaGuerta trying to set up Dexter, shooting what's his face, and then she shot LaGuerta. Otherwise, Deb's bullet is in LaGuerta and unless they dug it out, there is no way that Deb won't get caught there.

As far as Hannah, I wondered if Deb had dosed herself to blame it on Hannah. She said that she would do anything to put her away, and that would do it.


----------



## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

The idea of Deb poisoning herself did occur to us, but we quickly concluded that that's just not Deb. She's smart enough to think of it, sure, but it's just not the way her mind works. She is the mirror image of Dexter: Dexter lives on the inside where no one can see the real him, and Deb lives entirely on the outside where you can't help but see her. This kind of deception is not her.

Now, admittedly, since her promotion she's been forced to learn a bit about keeping things inside and being sneaky; and admittedly, the writers aren't always so consistent about stuff like this when the plot demands it. But it just didn't fit, and I was glad to see them be overt about confirming Hannah did it.


----------



## Sacrilegium (Dec 14, 2006)

Hannah confessed to Dexter in prison. She did it.

(Unless she's lying to cover for Deb, which doesn't make a lot of sense.)


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Sacrilegium said:


> Hannah confessed to Dexter in prison.


Not exactly. Dexter accused her of doing it, and Hannah paused a long time and then said "Because she was trying to keep us apart". That is a justification, but not exactly a confession. Perhaps we could call it an admission of motive. If Hannah's statement were recorded, it would not be considered an admission of guilt in court -- it was too ambiguous for that.

Based on what Hannah later said to Deb, I could see that as just being Hannah getting tired of telling Dexter that she did not do it, and deciding it was not worth the trouble. Whether Hannah did it or not, she felt betrayed that Dexter chose Deb over Hannah, and that is what Hannah wanted to discuss, so she may have just been trying to move the conversation along.

At this point, I could see it going either way -- Deb or Hannah could have dosed Deb.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Given this show's history of resolving the major questions of each season in each season, and not letting plot threads continue, I suspect the writers would be blown away that anybody thinks this is still an open question. Whether she stood up in front of a judge or not, Hannah confessed to Dexter once she realized she wasn't going to get able to sweet-talk her way out of it. I don't see how they could have made it any more clear...as you just demonstrated, you have to throw out the obvious meaning of the scene and then read a whole lot into it to get something else.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I don't see how they could have made it any more clear.


Really? Your vision is severely limited. 

First, Hannah could have said to Dexter, "I admit I put the drug in Deb's water, then I lied to you about not doing it." Then Hannah could have explained why she thought she could get away with dosing Deb (Hannah is smart, it makes no sense that she would think she could do it without Dexter finding out), then explained why Hannah failed to kill Deb (unlike all Hannah's other targets), then explained how Hannah managed to get Deb to drink half the water in the bottle without noticing the taste from the huge amount of Xanax dissolved in it.


----------



## Lee 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

john4200 said:


> Really? Your vision is severely limited.
> 
> First, Hannah could have said to Dexter, "I admit I put the drug in Deb's water, then I lied to you about not doing it." Then Hannah could have explained why she thought she could get away with dosing Deb (Hannah is smart, it makes no sense that she would think she could do it without Dexter finding out), then explained why Hannah failed to kill Deb (unlike all Hannah's other targets), then explained how Hannah managed to get Deb to drink half the water in the bottle without noticing the taste from the huge amount of Xanax dissolved in it.


Hannah did it.

I had the same thought about the taste of the xanax though. That **** is bitter, no way a person drinking several crushed up pills in a little water wouldn't spit it out. Probably just a plot hole, like Deb's unbloodied dress. Dexter requires a certain amount of suspension of disbelief to be enjoyable.


----------



## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Given this show's history of resolving the major questions of each season in each season, and not letting plot threads continue, I suspect the writers would be blown away that anybody thinks this is still an open question. Whether she stood up in front of a judge or not, Hannah confessed to Dexter once she realized she wasn't going to get able to sweet-talk her way out of it. I don't see how they could have made it any more clear...as you just demonstrated, you have to throw out the obvious meaning of the scene and then read a whole lot into it to get something else.


+1


----------



## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I don't see how they could have made it any more clear...


They certainly could have made it clearer and more obvious, but as a viewer I don't want that. As viewers, we (at least most of us) are able to adequately interpret the dialog.

Hannah did it.

Now, who thinks she will be back in the next season as a major element of the overall story? I don't think so. I think she'll go the way of Rita's ex.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Hannah could have also been "letting Dexter off the hook" by letting him think she did do it to make her going to prison easier on him.


----------



## Sacrilegium (Dec 14, 2006)

The whole series after season one _could_ be a dream Deb is having while she's on the Ice Truck Killer's table.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

pmyers said:


> Hannah could have also been "letting Dexter off the hook" by letting him think she did do it to make her going to prison easier on him.


I forgot to say that I was 95% sure Deb poisoned herself at the beginning of the episode but probably only 20% now.


----------



## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

I thought this season felt tired and that they blew a great opportunity to end the series with Deb shooting Dex.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Hcour said:


> I thought this season felt tired and that they blew a great opportunity to end the series with Deb shooting Dex.


That would have been an ill-considered move, since there's at least one more season yet to come...


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Hcour said:
> 
> 
> > I thought this season felt tired and that they blew a great opportunity to end the series with Deb shooting Dex.
> ...


Not necessarily. It could have been Deb's decent into "The Code" and take over where Dexter left off. And Dexter could constantly visit and talk to Deb like their Dad does with Dex.

But I agree, they can't kill of the show's namesake with an entire season to go.


----------



## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

Hank said:


> But I agree, they can't kill of the show's namesake with an entire season to go.


Did you read my post? I said end the _series_, not the season. That is, end the series right there with Deb killing Dex. Would have been perfect!

Not sure if I'm really interested in another season.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Agreed.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

The most interesting thing about how this played out is that Dexter _didn't_ kill LaGuerta... Deb did! If Dex hadn't killed Hannah's father earlier in the season, he would still have not violated his code. And Hannah's father was definitely not an innocent, so some arguments could be made there. Actually Deb is _worse_ than Dex since she killed a true innocent.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Dex did kill an innocent in an earlier season. He killed that celebrity photog, when the real killer was his assistant. Also, I think there was one other one, too.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

There was that guy in the restroom that Dexter appeared to beat to death. I guess he might have survived, but it did not look like it.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

john4200 said:


> There was that guy in the restroom that Dexter appeared to beat to death. I guess he might have survived, but it did not look like it.


I thought that was a dream sequence.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I thought that was a dream sequence.


It was.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

No, Dexter actually beat that man with the anchor in real life, not a dream.

I can see why you are confused, though. After Rita's murder, Dexter got in his boat and was going to run away from it all. While he was piloting the boat, he closed his eyes and had a hallucination about Rita. But then he opened his eyes again, and later docked the boat at Jimbo's to fuel up, and then he met the rude guy inside, and later beat him to death with an anchor in the restroom after the guy said that his dead wife can suck his dick.

This was near the end of the first episode in season 5.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

NSFW (language)



Spoiler


----------



## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Dexter's next, and possibly last, season will start on June 30.


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

lew said:


> Dexter's next, and possibly last, season will start on June 30.


That seems a little earlier than normal.


----------



## lambertman (Dec 21, 2002)

robojerk said:


> That seems a little earlier than normal.


Indeed.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

lew said:


> I assumed the secret was the fact that she was abusing Xanax. Popping the pills like candy. Hannah was in the apartment, saw the date of the script on the bottle and how few pills were left.


I thought it was pretty obvious when she took the Xanax in her car that she was chugging a bunch...certainly more than one or two. There was a lot of "rattling" going on when she dumped them into her hand before popping them in her mouth and drinking water from a bottle...


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

i watched the last 4 eps back to back so the comments are based on that:

quinn in the bar and putting the gun in his gf's hand would leave his prints on the gun too wouldnt it? for all the talk of blood and prints i thought that was a silly hole. i do like how angel asked about the time lag and that quinn was forced to lie to his face. again proving he cannot be trusted

matthews definitely knows about dexter and i do think he was letting him know about how close she was to connecting everything. good job warning him!

i know that police radios have gps so assumed thats how deb knew to ask for it. you see it in law and order and other cop shows all the time, they say send a bus to my location and they never give the location 

i hope angel doesnt disappear from the show. him not sitting in the lt. chair was always something i thought created some nice stress between him and deb. maybe they could make that into something later down the road. 

i didnt like this season that dex changed and didnt kill hannah and was also showing signs of weakness. he's becoming not himself and whlie you can make a case for him 'evolving' into something, i prefer he remain a consistent killer. 

holy cow how long has it been since we saw dexters 'daughter'? she looked 12 last i remember. i also hope the nanny continues with the next season and i always feel bad for her..she's constantly dumped on but never complains


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

In real life, if a couple of people touch an object like a gun, it's nearly impossible to lift a usable print.


----------

