# A question about CableCARD pairing ...



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

I am going to be switching from a dual-drive setup in my S3 to a single-drive setup. When doing so, I plan on replacing both my internal and external drives with a single 1TB drive that contains a fresh image. It is my understanding that once I do this, both CableCARDS will need to be re-paired. Is this correct? Assuming it is, can Comcast re-pair the cards over the phone, or will they force me to wait until they send someone out to my house?


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

it depends.

plenty of variables.

I seem to recall only non-moto cards need to get re-paired after drive upgrades. Check the underground forums to confirm that.

If you do need to re-pair then it's a crapshoot how it will go down.

Chances of finding someone on comcast's end of the phone that understands that you could even generate a new pairing number doesn't sound like a given from the general gist of things. So they might insist on a truck roll so a clueless tech can call the same clueless people at the head end for you. At which point they will just give up and install fresh cards and then use that pairing info. 

But who knows maybe you hit the jackpot and find someone on the phone the first go round.

But certainly to start - hit the underground and search to confirm I'm right that moto cards are ok (or find out if I'm wrong and all or none need to get redone)


----------



## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

It will depend on the area some will let you call in the pairing, some will not. My area I can call in the pairing. Last year I upgraded my s3 to 1TB and lost the pairing. I had to call in the pairing numbers. I have the Motorola cards.


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

caddyroger said:


> It will depend on the area some will let you call in the pairing, some will not. My area I can call in the pairing. Last year I upgraded my s3 to 1TB and lost the pairing. I had to call in the pairing numbers. I have the Motorola cards.


Interesting. I too have Motorola cards. I probably should have mentioned this in my original post. Out of curiosity, do they allow you to do self-installs where you live? In my area, they always insist on a truck roll when installing new cards.


----------



## spocko (Feb 4, 2009)

If you don't have any premium channels, then your cablecards may not need to be paired. For example, I have a Motorola M-Card that is paired to my Tivo HD. I have tried removing it and plugging it into another Tivo, or into a cablecard-ready TV, and it worked just fine in both. I'm on Comcast, I don't know if this is system dependent.


----------



## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

gweempose said:


> Interesting. I too have Motorola cards. I probably should have mentioned this in my original post. Out of curiosity, do they allow you to do self-installs where you live? In my area, they always insist on a truck roll when installing new cards.


Here in the Seattle and Tacoma area we can install the cable cards but as I stated earlier not areas all will allow you to do self installs.


----------



## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

spocko said:


> If you don't have any premium channels, then your cablecards may not need to be paired. For example, I have a Motorola M-Card that is paired to my Tivo HD. I have tried removing it and plugging it into another Tivo, or into a cablecard-ready TV, and it worked just fine in both. I'm on Comcast, I don't know if this is system dependent.


I have Comcast. I tried to put one of my cards into a cable card ready tv and it did not work.


----------



## Grumock (Dec 16, 2008)

spocko said:


> If you don't have any premium channels, then your cablecards may not need to be paired. For example, I have a Motorola M-Card that is paired to my Tivo HD. I have tried removing it and plugging it into another Tivo, or into a cablecard-ready TV, and it worked just fine in both. I'm on Comcast, I don't know if this is system dependent.


my only question would be: Did you leave it in that device for more then a month? I think when they update everything on a monthly basis it might kick that device out of Authorization. I could be totally mistaken though, I live in an area where they use SA equipment.


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

I went ahead and installed the new drive. As we suspected, my premium channels no longer work. I called Comcast and spoke with a support rep for a while this evening. He seemed like a nice enough guy, but he didn't really have much of a clue. He tried to send some hits to the cards with no success. He then put me on hold while he went to speak with a supervisor. When he came back, he told me that the supervisor informed him that there were only three people in the office that knew how to take care of this type of situation, and unfortunately, none of them were in. Ironically, the supervisor himself didn't even know what to do. Someone is supposed to give me a call back tomorrow evening, and they were nice enough to give me an $18 credit for the inconvenience.


----------



## spocko (Feb 4, 2009)

Grumock said:


> my only question would be: Did you leave it in that device for more then a month? I think when they update everything on a monthly basis it might kick that device out of Authorization. I could be totally mistaken though, I live in an area where they use SA equipment.


Yes, I have a card that I moved from a paired Tivo to a non-paired Tivo about 5 months ago, and it is still working fine for non-premium channels. I think that since cablecard only has one-way comm, the cable provider can not detect if the card has been moved to a different device.

I don't subscribe to any premium channels, but my understanding is that those channels do require the card to be paired to the host device.

Again my experience here is with a Motorola M-Card on Comcast. In my area they require a truck roll for any kind of cablecard installation or change, and they charge an hour of labor for the privilege. That's why I never bothered to pair the card to the new Tivo.


----------



## brettatk (Oct 11, 2002)

I wouldn't be surprised if they say they have to send out a technician to re-pair your cablecards. It's pretty ridiculous considering that when they get there all they will do is call someone and read the numbers off the screen. Hopefully they will let you do it without needing a Tech, but most of the time that is not the case. Glad to hear they gave you an $18 credit, because if they do have to send someone out they will charge you atleast that much for a service call. Good luck.


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

brettatk said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if they say they have to send out a technician to re-pair your cablecards. It's pretty ridiculous considering that when they get there all they will do is call someone and read the numbers off the screen.


That's funny, because that's exactly what I said to the guy on the phone last night. After not having any luck re-pairing the cards, he told me that they would probably have to send someone out to my house. I responded by pointing out that they would simply be reading the same numbers over the phone. That's when he put me on hold and talked to a supervisor.


----------



## Allanon (Nov 2, 2005)

I just replaced my TiVo HD internal drive with a 1TB drive and had to have the cablecards re-paired. I called my cable company which is Suddenlink and told them I just replaced the drive in my TiVo HD and I'm not getting premium channels. I also said that I can give her the cablecard IDs plus the host and data addresses. The tech on the phone said let me try to re-pair the cards. She asked for the IDs of the cablecards since I have three TiVo HDs all with cards. Then she asked for host addresses and quickly was able to get both cablecards paired.


----------



## crazi4tv (Nov 1, 2008)

Information about pairing Motorola Cablecards:

Each Cablecard tuner or slot is assigned a unique Host ID which does not change. The first 3 numbers indicate the manufacturer of the Host device. TiVo (99% of the time) begins with 035. When a Cablecard is inserted into the slot, it sends a series of messages to the cable companys' Headend, which then verifies whether or not that the Host ID is valid. The Host & Data will not appear on the pairing screen until this step has been completed. The Data ID is generated between the Host ID and the Cablecard, so if a new cablecard is inserted into that slot the Host will remain the same, but the data will change.

Once the Host & Data IDs are displayed on the pairing screen, someone at the Cable company must "pair" the Host & Data to the card, and then send a series of activation signals which are *Cablecard Validation, Initialize*, *Hit* (in that order) to the card. Once the pairing is done on the customers account, the Host & Data will not change unless someone manually changes it. If a customer removes the card and inserts it into another slot with a different Host ID, the pairing information on the cable account must be updated as well, otherwise encrypted and especially copy protected channels may not display. The Headend periodically sends messages to all their equipment which can reset Cablecards, so in other words, if you remove the Cablecard and put it into another device or slot, it may decrypt channels at first, but then one day they are gone. It is extremely important that the Host & Data on the TiVo pairing screen match exactly to what is on your cable account.

FYI~ *Never, ever* remove a Cablecard from a Motorola or SA set top box. The manufacturer pairs the cards to the DVR or STB before they are shipped to the cable companies. Those cards are paired to work _only _ with the STB they are inserted into. Even the cable companies do not remove them.


----------



## crazi4tv (Nov 1, 2008)

brettatk said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if they say they have to send out a technician to re-pair your cablecards. It's pretty ridiculous considering that when they get there all they will do is call someone and read the numbers off the screen. Hopefully they will let you do it without needing a Tech, but most of the time that is not the case. Glad to hear they gave you an $18 credit, because if they do have to send someone out they will charge you atleast that much for a service call. Good luck.


It is pretty ridiculous that customers are told that they need to schedule an appointment for a technician for something that can be done over the phone in a few minutes. At Comcast, the reason for that is because the phone reps are not trained on Cablecards or TiVo's, and they are allowed to talk on the phone with a customer an average of only 5 minutes, or else they receive a message reminding them they need to get the customer off the phone. the fastest way for a rep to get the customer off the phone is to schedule a service call. 
Sad, but true.


----------



## donnoh (Mar 7, 2008)

crazi4tv said:


> Information about pairing Motorola Cablecards:
> 
> Each Cablecard tuner or slot is assigned a unique Host ID which does not change. The first 3 numbers indicate the manufacturer of the Host device. TiVo (99% of the time) begins with 035. When a Cablecard is inserted into the slot, it sends a series of messages to the cable companys' Headend, which then verifies whether or not that the Host ID is valid. The Host & Data will not appear on the pairing screen until this step has been completed. The Data ID is generated between the Host ID and the Cablecard, so if a new cablecard is inserted into that slot the Host will remain the same, but the data will change.
> 
> ...


You certainly sound like you know what you're talking about. I recently upgraded my Tivo HD with a new hard drive and new image and was totally prepaired to call Charter to get my cablecard to work again and it was a non issue. All of my channels came in including the premiems without me having to do anything.


----------



## crazi4tv (Nov 1, 2008)

donnoh said:


> You certainly sound like you know what you're talking about. I recently upgraded my Tivo HD with a new hard drive and new image and was totally prepaired to call Charter to get my cablecard to work again and it was a non issue. All of my channels came in including the premiems without me having to do anything.


You are one of the lucky ones. I don't know which type of card you have, but Motorola and SA cards are paired differently. Also, from what I have read, depending on who you cable provider is they may have different procedures on pairing their cards. However, if your provider requires the Host & Data on their system to match what appears on your TiVo pairing screen, the card may eventually encrypt those channels if it receives an update from the Headend and you will see a black/grey screen telling you to contact your cable provider.

Since you mentioned it, yes I do have a lot of experience with Motorola cablecards. I worked in the dispatch department for a cable company for 5 years and was "the cablecard specialist" in my market. Many of the field technicians called me to assist them on their TiVo installations & service calls. I wrote three cablecard guides-one just for TiVo, but the company felt that training call center reps on cablecards was not a priority.


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Comcast has proven yet again just how pathetic they are when it comes to CableCARDS. For starters, they blew me off last night and never called me. I then spent at least an hour on the phone today talking to all sorts of people trying to get the situation resolved. Every person I talked to wanted to set up a service call, but I was determined to solve the issue over the phone. I kept getting bounced around from department to department, until I eventually ended up talking to someone in the escalated resolution department.

At this point, I thought I was finally in touch with someone who had the capability to help me. Sadly, this was not the case. Like all of the people before him, he insisted that they had to send someone out to my house. I tried to point out that the person they sent would simply be reading the host and data information off my TV, but I don't think he even knew what I was talking about. In the end, my diligence accomplished absolutely nothing. They're sending someone out to my house tomorrow evening to re-pair the cards. Obviously, I'm not surprised by how things went down, but the whole situation is very frustrating, nonetheless.


----------



## crazi4tv (Nov 1, 2008)

gweempose, I feel your pain. I am not at all surprised that you were told you would need a service technician for something that should have been resolved over the phone. Maybe 1% of the phone reps know anything about cablecards and none of them have access to pair cablecards (floor support, supervisors and dispatchers do). As soon as you mention "pairing" or "host & data", you have already lost them. Since the reps are allowed to spend an average of 5 minutes per call, they will tell you that a technician needs to pair the cards (since they have no idea what to do, it is the quickest way to get you off the phone). Also, reps in the escalation department do not know any more about cablecards than anyone else.

If you have Motorola cards, the best way to get them paired over the phone is this: 
access the cablecard pairing screen, write down the Host ID, the Data ID and the Unit Address (this matches the unit address of the cablecard entered on your account & is very useful if you have more than one card). When you call, tell the rep that you need to verify that they have the correct equipment listed on your account. Then, ask the rep to look at the Host & Data that is attached to the card on their computer screen, and have them read those numbers to you. More than likely they will not match with what is on your pairing screen if you have a new tuner. If they do not match, tell the rep that they have the wrong information inputted in their system & they will need to be corrected. In order to update the Host & Data, a supervisor or what they call "floor support" will need to update that information. Once you have been told the information has been updated, ask them to read back to you what the new numbers on your account is. If it is correct, they will need to send these signals: "Cablecard Validation", "Initialize", "Hit" in that order. If their signals are not backed up, within 5 minutes all your channels should download.


----------



## brettatk (Oct 11, 2002)

gweempose I know exactly how you feel. I'm so disgusted with my latest run around with Charter I'll be cancelling my service and going strictly OTA until U-verse is offered in my area.


----------



## kosibar (Apr 11, 2010)

Whenever I make a change, sometimes even pulling a card out and putting it back in, I have to call Time Warner. One time the second technician I got managed to fix it. Every other time I've gone through several technicians over the course of several calls and finally had them send someone to the house. One time a tech noticed that someone was scheduled to come out to pair my cable card and called me to say he could do it over the phone. Unfortunately I wasn't home at the time.

When the guy shows up at the house he looks at what I'm doing and tells me that there is nothing he can do, it has to be done over the phone. He calls in, goes through two or three techs on the phone and usually within an hour or so they have it paired.

Isn't it worth three to five hours of wages and customer satisfaction to teach techs how to pair cable cards? Or at least teach them what it means and who to send us to? On the other hand, every tech has said, "I don't know anything about these TiVos, I have the Time Warner DVR." I almost think they have the TiVo mascot hanging on the wall at the office with a count below it of how many they've gotten to switch with CableCard issues.

I have Albany Time Warner.


----------



## crazi4tv (Nov 1, 2008)

kosibar said:


> .
> Isn't it worth three to five hours of wages and customer satisfaction to teach techs how to pair cable cards? Or at least teach them what it means and who to send us to? On the other hand, every tech has said, "I don't know anything about these TiVos, I have the Time Warner DVR." I almost think they have the TiVo mascot hanging on the wall at the office with a count below it of how many they've gotten to switch with CableCard issues.
> 
> I have Albany Time Warner.


Actually, to cable companies it is not worth it. Less than 1% of cable customers use cablecards in third party electronic devices. The amount of time and money it would cost to train field technicians to install cards in TiVo and train phone reps to offer phone support for a product that is not a cable company device is not justifiable to cable company management. In other words, management looks at how many of their customers have TiVo (less than 1%), vs the number of employees in each market (400-700 plus contractors) that will need to be taken off the phones and pulled out of the field away from jobs in order to spend 4-8 hours learning to support a product that is not even issued by them. Cable companies are required to supply cablecards, but they are not required to train their employees on how to operate & support non cable company devices that the cards go in to.
__________________


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

crazi4tv said:


> Actually, to cable companies it is not worth it. Less than 1% of cable customers use cablecards in third party electronic devices. The amount of time and money it would cost to train field technicians to install cards in TiVo and train phone reps to offer phone support for a product that is not a cable company device is not justifiable to cable company management. In other words, management looks at how many of their customers have TiVo (less than 1%), vs the number of employees in each market (400-700 plus contractors) that will need to be taken off the phones and pulled out of the field away from jobs in order to spend 4-8 hours learning to support a product that is not even issued by them. Cable companies are required to supply cablecards, but they are not required to train their employees on how to operate & support non cable company devices that the cards go in to.
> __________________


if they do the math that way- then sure. But all they need is to do the math this way.

1) Train 20 employees nationally at the main call center to be able to handle such issues for the entire company. call them the 'cablecard support team'
2) add to the call center's scipts that if anyone says "pairing", "host", or other related terms that they should just transfer the call to the cablecard support team.

viola- I just saved comcast, timewarner, whoever about 10,000 man hours a year in wasted time with techs DRIVING from home to home just to later call and figure out which department to speak to in order to handle it over the phone.

It's hard not to think that cable company's are poorly managed. There's a reason why people hate cable almost as much as the DMV and used car dealers.


----------



## crazi4tv (Nov 1, 2008)

MichaelK, I agree with you 100%. As a former cable provider employee, I tried unsuccessfully for 5 years to do what you suggested. Instead of one national team I suggested that each call center have a specially trained cablecard unit. In the company that I worked for, the area code the customer was calling from would automatically direct them to the call center that handled their calls, which is why I recommended each center have their own unit. Each time I suggested it, I was told the same things: "it is not in our budget" "maybe next year" or "we don't have enough TiVo customers to justify it". Also, depending on the company, the technicians call in to one department for assistance: Dispatch.


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

My cards are both back up and running! The Comcast guy came out this evening, and the first thing he said was, "Why did they even bother sending me when you could have given them the information over the phone?" I had to laugh. What's even funnier is that the first person he spoke to flat out hung up on him. He says he's get's that a lot as soon as he mentions the word CableCARD.  Fortunately, the next person he talked to seemed to know her stuff, and everything was squared away within 10 minutes.

Ironically, while the Comcast guy was here, some dude from U-verse rang my doorbell. He tried to convince me that I should blow off Comcast and go with AT&T for phone, internet and TV. I told him that there was no way I was going to switch, since I already had such a large investment in TiVo hardware. Even though I explained to him that my TiVos were not compatible with the U-verse service, he insisted that I was wrong. I literally had to grab my laptop and pull up some S3/U-verse threads in order to convince him.


----------



## brettatk (Oct 11, 2002)

gweempose said:


> Ironically, while the Comcast guy was here, some dude from U-verse rang my doorbell. He tried to convince me that I should blow off Comcast and go with AT&T for phone, internet and TV. I told him that there was no way I was going to switch, since I already had such a large investment in TiVo hardware. Even though I explained to him that my TiVos were not compatible with the U-verse service, he insisted that I was wrong. I literally had to grab my laptop and pull up some S3/U-verse threads in order to convince him.


I so wish someone from at&t would ring my doorbell telling me it was available on our street now. I live on a short street with a culdesac. U-verse just hasn't run fiber down our street yet. I guess since it's only 10 houses they feel it's not a priority but the neighborhood around us does have U-verse available. I know it's not compatible with Tivo but it's not like my Tivo's will turn into bricks. I can continue to use my Tivo HD with OTA, Amazon, transferring shows from PC, Netflix, etc. It will be so much better than Charter, it certainly can't be any worse.

But I am glad they finallly got it worked out!


----------



## JayG30 (Jul 4, 2010)

I came across this thread through google. With Comcast now offering TiVo service in some areas (and expanding) you would think that they would start becoming more familiar with these types of issues, no?

I hope so. TiVo is hard for them to understand, imagine trying to explain media centers to them. I've talked to various Comcast employees and the information they spew is so misleading/inaccurate.


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I can't personally speak about cable card issues, but from what I've read here, I've formed the opinion that the cable companies make cable card installation difficult for their own benefit.
They don't want you using any device other than what they provide.


----------



## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

That pretty much hits the nail on the head.

The reason we have cable cards is because of the telecommunications act. It was the technical answer to the legislation's security integration ban that provides consumers with an option for third party navigation equipment (like TiVo). The idea was that all cable company navigation devices would require cable cards and require pairing during customer installation. It was to be something routine for techs and customer service personel regardless of where the equipment came from. Instead, cable companies "weld" the cards to their equipment beforehand. Also, customers are supposed to have a cable card self-install option.

Cable companies have circumvented much of what the integration ban was supposed to accomplish due to lack of enforcement on the FCC's part. The cable companies are doing everything they can to maintain a monopoly on customer premise equipment.

If you haven't seen this tread in the coffee house section, check it out. There's a link to an FCC site that contains comments and filings about cable cards and tuning adapters. Lots of interesting documents. I only hope the FCC does something about the situation. The cable companies have been getting away with this behavior for over ten years now and it's illegal.


----------



## cbad (Jan 20, 2009)

I just did a 1TB upgrade and had to re-pair. I tried to get them to do it over the phone (TWC), but no way. I've had the techs over before, and I usually have to walk them through the process, and it was no different this morning.

Anyway, he got the cards installed, got a signal, and some HD channels. But, no switched video channels. He said that would likely take an hour or two. So he left. It's been many hours and still no switched video (pretty much all the premium HD we get). 

So frustrating. They are sending out another guy tomorrow. My confidence is shot. Anyone here know of anything I can do without him? They seem paired, but obviously something isn't right.

Thanks!


----------



## cbad (Jan 20, 2009)

cbad said:


> Anyone here know of anything I can do without him? !


By the way, I swapped out the tuning adaptor so I know that isn't the problem. Seems like the cards aren't paired right.


----------



## Grumock (Dec 16, 2008)

cbad said:


> By the way, I swapped out the tuning adaptor so I know that isn't the problem. Seems like the cards aren't paired right.


well normally if they are not paired you will get a message on the screen to call your provider, showing the Host & cable card ID information. I am more inclined to think toward the TA. Is it locked in solid, are you using Motorola or Cisco Ta?


----------



## cbad (Jan 20, 2009)

Grumock said:


> I am more inclined to think toward the TA. Is it locked in solid, are you using Motorola or Cisco Ta?


I thought so too, so I swapped the TA with one from one of my other HD Tivos (not an S3 like the one I'm working on). It behaved exactly same. So I installed the TA from my S3 on the HD Tivo, and it worked fine. So two TA's worked on a known good setup, and neither worked on the newly paired setup.

Am I missing something?


----------



## Grumock (Dec 16, 2008)

cbad said:


> I thought so too, so I it out with on of my other HD Tivos (not an S3 like the one I'm working on). It behaved exactly same thing. So I installed the TA from my S3 in the HD Tivo, and it worked fine. So two TA's worked on a known good setup, and neither worked on the newly paired setup.
> 
> Am I missing something?


different outlets in the house? Different signal levels. Thinking that direction & then the other thing is to make sure that the TIVo is actually seeing the TA when it is locked in & hooked up to the USB.


----------



## cbad (Jan 20, 2009)

Grumock said:


> the other thing is to make sure that the TIVo is actually seeing the TA when it is locked in & hooked up to the USB.


How can I tell? That sounds reasonable, since the only thing I don't seem to be able to receive is the switched video channels.

Thanks!


----------



## Grumock (Dec 16, 2008)

cbad said:


> How can I tell? That sounds reasonable, since the only thing I don't seem to be able to receive is the switched video channels.
> 
> Thanks!


what model TIVO is it? If it is the Premiere then you have to go into the menu to see it, but if it is older then you can just disconnect the USB & reconnect it. Either of those actions should pull a screen up that you will have to navigate away from.

If it is a Premiere go to:

Tivo Central/messages & settings/account & sys. information/tuning adapter/tuning adapter diagnostics.

For any model that will pull up the diagnostic screens for your TA, now if it is Cisco or Motorola it will make a difference in what you see for diagnostics.


----------



## cbad (Jan 20, 2009)

That was very helpful. The Tuning Adapter menu wasn't there. So I checked the software version and it was 9.2a something, it was the version that was on the InstantCake CD. So I bet it is before Tuning Adapters were supported. 

Can I force an upgrade?


----------



## Grumock (Dec 16, 2008)

cbad said:


> That was very helpful. The Tuning Adapter menu wasn't there. So I checked the software version and it was 9.2a something, it was the version that was on the InstantCake CD. So I bet it is before Tuning Adapters were supported.
> 
> Can I force an upgrade?


should be able to. I was under the impression that they wont be seen unless it is 9.4 or greater. Latest is 11.g


----------



## cbad (Jan 20, 2009)

Yep, my other Tivos are all on 11.0g. Looks like it may have downloaded an upgrade last night, and was waiting for a restart.

This definitely explains it an hopefully fixes it, thanks for all your help!


----------



## cbad (Jan 20, 2009)

cbad said:


> This definitely explains it an hopefully fixes it, thanks for all your help!


Almost. One cablecard now works with everything. The other is actually a little worse, only getting local stations both HD and SD (not even basic cable on the SD channels). I've looked at all the cablecard diagnostics and can't see a difference in the setup of the two, but that doesn't mean I'm not missing it.

Maybe just cablecard 1 is either not paired correctly or a bad card?

Thanks again!


----------



## Grumock (Dec 16, 2008)

cbad said:


> Almost. One cablecard now works with everything. The other is actually a little worse, only getting local stations both HD and SD (not even basic cable on the SD channels). I've looked at all the cablecard diagnostics and can't see a difference in the setup of the two, but that doesn't mean I'm not missing it.
> 
> Maybe just cablecard 1 is either not paired correctly or a bad card?
> 
> Thanks again!


if you go to the CP info screen for card one and look at the *Authorization status* what does it say? I take it these are both *Single *stream cards? If they are *Multistream *cards check CP screen but also check the CA screen & check for *EMMs Processed * My guess is either that one card does not have CP Authorization received, or the card is not staged.


----------



## cbad (Jan 20, 2009)

Grumock said:


> ]cards check CP screen but also check the CA screen & check for *EMMs Processed * My guess is either that one card does not have CP Authorization received, or the card is not staged.


You're right on track as usual. He did install two new multi-stream cards yesterday. Don't know why he didn't just use the two single stream cards that were already there.

Anyway, here's the significant difference on the Conditional Access screen:

Card 1 (doesn't work):

CP: Enabled
CA: 0x00
Auth: MP CCI: 0x00 ? Epoch: 0x4d

Card 2 (works):

CP: disabled
CA: 0x01
Auth: S CCI: 0x00 S Epoch: 0x4d

The ? Epoch looks especially suspicious on the card that doesn't work. Maybe it just can't handle two multiple stream cards.

Is it still true that S3s can't take a single multiple stream card? I know it was true at one time, for my system at least.

Thanks!


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

cbad said:


> Is it still true that S3s can't take a single multiple stream card? I know it was true at one time, for my system at least.
> 
> Thanks!


Yes, still true. For the original Series 3, you have to use two cards regardless of whether they're M or S type.


----------



## Grumock (Dec 16, 2008)

cbad said:


> You're right on track as usual. He did install two new multi-stream cards yesterday. Don't know why he didn't just use the two single stream cards that were already there.
> 
> Anyway, here's the significant difference on the Conditional Access screen:
> 
> ...


looks like you have Moto cards. On the *Conditional Access* screen you should see a Line that also has *CON*/*EBCP*/& *VAL *on it. They should say *YES*/*YES*/ *V0x01 *at least. If you compare that line between the two cards you will see the difference as well. There are times when installing both cards at the same time can cause issues. Normally you would want to get card one Authorized & working before inserting card 2.


----------



## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

As an additional, the only way to verify that both cards are working is to use the Test Cable Card screens. That way you're only working with one card at a time. If you just flip through channels on live TV, you might not be working with the cable card you think you are.


----------



## Grumock (Dec 16, 2008)

Gregor said:


> As an additional, the only way to verify that both cards are working is to use the Test Cable Card screens. That way you're only working with one card at a time. If you just flip through channels on live TV, you might not be working with the cable card you think you are.


or you can just hit the *LIVE TV* button on the remote & that will swap from one tuner to another.


----------



## cbad (Jan 20, 2009)

Grumock said:


> or you can just hit the *LIVE TV* button on the remote & that will swap from one tuner to another.


I've tested from both, and of course, got the same results from both. I suspect it is something to do with installing both cards at once without ever testing to make sure the first one was working before attempting the second. It seems strange that my Card 2 is the one working, and Card 1 is only getting local channels.

Thanks!


----------



## Grumock (Dec 16, 2008)

cbad said:


> I've tested from both, and of course, got the same results from both. I suspect it is something to do with installing both cards at once without ever testing to make sure the first one was working before attempting the second. It seems strange that my Card 2 is the one working, and Card 1 is only getting local channels.
> 
> Thanks!


Kind of common for the second card to get authorization & the first never to get it, when both are installed at the same time.


----------

