# PCMag gives the Stream a "good" review - 3 out of 5



## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2409351,00.asp

I need some help in the comments if any of you Stream users would like to chime in! Its hard to imagine that this box for $129 is a 3/5. I know scores are arbitrary but she is basically comparing the Stream to something like HBO Go which lets you stream on-demand content for Free. How is that a valid comparison?

Thanks,
~Sam


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

She's also *****ing about copy protection of programs, which is a valid concern for downloading using the Stream.

As with the Tivo itself, a lot of the problems are not directly Tivo's fault, but are due to the content providers and distributors (and Cable Labs). I'd knock a star off of it myself if there were programs I could not download. It makes the device less than fully useful (and yes, I do know it's called the "Tivo Stream", not the "Tivo Download")

She also dings it for the cost, and I've have to agree with her. While I expected a price in the $100-$150 range, and I even think it's reasonable considering the cost to manufacture and market, that is still a lot of money for what you're getting. It's a capability that should have been built into the Premiere.

I'd also be tempted to knock a star off because it can only be used locally on the LAN. Other devices (slingbox, etc) you can watch over the Internet. Tivo Stream you cannot. A significant limitation.

ETA: I'd also be temped to deduct a star for lack of Android device support if I was an Android user. Fortunately, I'm an iPad user so it's not a problem for me. 

In short, while I like the Stream and it suits my purposes, it does have a number of limitations that make it worthy of losing a couple of stars.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

smbaker said:


> She's also *****ing about copy protection of programs, which is a valid concern for downloading using the Stream.
> 
> As with the Tivo itself, a lot of the problems are not directly Tivo's fault, but are due to the content providers and distributors (and Cable Labs). I'd knock a star off of it myself if there were programs I could not download. It makes the device less than fully useful (and yes, I do know it's called the "Tivo Stream", not the "Tivo Download")
> 
> ...


I don't think its a lot of money compared to the $700+ I paid for my LTE iPad. I suppose its all relative. I guess I would give my Slingbox a really bad rating because the box is expensive and every app for every platform is $29.99.

I would argue with you that the Stream is providing a unique capability and for $129 its a pretty good value -- 4 stars.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

sbiller said:


> I would argue with you that the Stream is providing a unique capability and for $129 its a pretty good value -- 4 stars.


To an extent I agree with you regarding the slingbox app price. That's why I chose a vulkano instead. I'd deduct a star from my hypothetical slingbox review because they charge for the app.

I can get more capability out of a slingbox or vulkano. It's not as convenient (in particular the latency when using the remote makes trick play useless) but working over the Internet instead of being limited to a LAN is a huge increase in capability. A slingbox is also more generalized and works with a variety of sources.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

I didnt like the review at all. It was too much based from Her perspective and not the actual device. For someone like me, my cable company doesnt protect anything, so that is a complete non issue for me. Seems like she had an agenda going in


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2399349,00.asp

It appears that PCMag has an editorial bias against TiVo. The earlier Elite review was probably even worse than this one.


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## Dpordy99 (Nov 7, 2011)

compnurd said:


> I didnt like the review at all. It was too much based from Her perspective and not the actual device. For someone like me, my cable company doesnt protect anything, so that is a complete non issue for me. Seems like she had an agenda going in


Why would she have an agenda? It's her opinion, and your free to disagree with it.

With my cable company almost everything is protected and I would imagine there are more people that have this issue than don't so I think it's a valid complaint.

Your basically paying $130 for something that many cable companies including my cable company offer for free.

Really the ability to watch Tivo on your iPad over your home network isn't that big of a deal in my opinion unless you only have 1 TV in the house and you want to have the TV in the background while you are cooking, doing dishes, or doing laundry.

If this device allowed you to watch your Tivo outside of your home network, or on a 4G connection as well as allowed you to save your shows so you could watch them on an airplane where there is no internet than I can see giving this thing a 5.

The fact that you are limited to your home network, for many the ability to transfer shows is useless, and that you are paying for something that most cable companies offer for free in my opinion is a perfectly valid reason to give something a "good" review of 3 stars and doesn't mean she has an "agenda", that's completely ridiculous what you just said.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

Dpordy99 said:


> Why would she have an agenda? It's her opinion, and your free to disagree with it.
> 
> With my cable company almost everything is protected and I would imagine there are more people that have this issue than don't so I think it's a valid complaint.
> 
> ...


Last I checked there was maybe 3 cable companies that offer the same ability. and there are 53 in the US. and several of the large ones dont allow you to watch your recorded content on an app... Just allow you to watch certain channels

Last I checked reviews were supposed to be based on the product, not opinion pieces.


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## Dpordy99 (Nov 7, 2011)

sbiller said:


> I would argue with you that the Stream is providing a unique capability and for $129 its a pretty good value -- 4 stars.


Your totally not understanding her complaint. After I got done paying for the lifetime membership I think I paid like $600 for the Tivo Premeire and the Lifetime. I could be off but I know it wasn't cheap. What she was saying is that for that amount of money you shouldn't have to pay another $150 for this, this should be built into Tivo. People who pay a subscription fee to HBO get to take their HBO on the road with them using HBO Go and you don't have to buy any additional hardware and you pay the same subscription fee whether you use HBOGo or you don't. With TivoStream you pay a subscription fee and you *DO* have to buy additional hardware and it only works in your home network and you can only transfer shows if you are lucky enough to have a cable provider that doesn't copy protect their content. HBOGO isn't limited to your home network. A perfect valid criticism.

Now I totally disagree with you about this being a "unique capability". I believe this is only available for cable box subscribers (I have a cable card), but there is an iPad app through my cable provider called "Cox Advanced TV". Cox Advanced TV app allows you to watch any shows in your Cox DVR as well as live TV on your iPad. In fact since your watching it from Cox's servers you don't even have the restriction of being out of luck if you want to watch a show and you're TV is recording two different programs. Guess how much this app costs? $50? $100? $200? It's free!!! It is free. No additional hardware required, it's free.

Why should a device that costs $150 that basically allows me to do something that had I have had a cable box I could do for free get a glowing review?

I'm going to stick to my sling box. At least with my slingbox I can actually sit in a hotel room and watch my DVR. If I stay at my parents house 2,000 miles away I can watch my DVR programs on my iPad. Until you can do this with Tivo Stream it's just a way of charging for something that other cable companies will give you for free


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

Dpordy99 said:


> Your totally not understanding her complaint. After I got done paying for the lifetime membership I think I paid like $600 for the Tivo Premeire and the Lifetime. I could be off but I know it wasn't cheap. What she was saying is that for that amount of money you shouldn't have to pay another $150 for this, this should be built into Tivo. People who pay a subscription fee to HBO get to take their HBO on the road with them using HBO Go and you don't have to buy any additional hardware and you pay the same subscription fee whether you use HBOGo or you don't. With TivoStream you pay a subscription fee and you *DO* have to buy additional hardware and it only works in your home network and you can only transfer shows if you are lucky enough to have a cable provider that doesn't copy protect their content. HBOGO isn't limited to your home network. A perfect valid criticism.
> 
> Now I totally disagree with you about this being a "unique capability". I believe this is only available for cable box subscribers (I have a cable card), but there is an iPad app through my cable provider called "Cox Advanced TV". Cox Advanced TV app allows you to watch any shows in your Cox DVR as well as live TV on your iPad. In fact since your watching it from Cox's servers you don't even have the restriction of being out of luck if you want to watch a show and you're TV is recording two different programs. Guess how much this app costs? $50? $100? $200? It's free!!! It is free. No additional hardware required, it's free.
> 
> ...


No not everyone who pays for HBO gets to take it to go. My cable company and about 30 others dont support it yet... And there is no subscription fee for the Stream


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Dpordy99 said:


> Your totally not understanding her complaint. After I got done paying for the lifetime membership I think I paid like $600 for the Tivo Premeire and the Lifetime. I could be off but I know it wasn't cheap. What she was saying is that for that amount of money you shouldn't have to pay another $150 for this, this should be built into Tivo.


Your is not You're. Let me get this straight. After having spent "like $600" on your Premiere and lifetime "membership" (it's not a membership), you'd rather fork over "like $600" again for a new Premiere with Stream built in than $129 to add Stream capability to your existing unit?


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

SullyND said:


> Your is not You're. Let me get this straight. After having spent "like $600" on your Premiere and lifetime "membership" (it's not a membership), you'd rather fork over "like $600" again for a new Premiere with Stream built in than $129 to add Stream capability to your existing unit?


Another point is this Feature is not built into the STB of these cable companies. The streaming they support is over there cable network.. Not coming from the STB.. There is nothing Tivo can do about that


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

compnurd said:


> Last I checked reviews were supposed to be based on the product, not opinion pieces.


Reviews are always opinions. That's the nature of a review. Personally when I read a review I only pay attention to the negatives. If the negatives are substantial, like it doesn't work or there is a high rate of failure then I might reconsider my purchase. But if the negatives are personal preference then I only pay attention to them if they also effect my usage of the device.

After a few days of use I'd personally give the Stream 4 stars. It works perfectly for what I bought it for. The only reson I'd knock it a star is because I have run into a few minor issues with the software and one gltch that required a reboot of the Stream itself.

Dan


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

Dan203 said:


> Reviews are always opinions. That's the nature of a review. Personally when I read a review I only pay attention to the negatives. If the negatives are substantial, like it doesn't work or there is a high rate of failure then I might reconsider my purchase. But if the negatives are personal preference then I only pay attention to them if they also effect my usage of the device.
> 
> After a few days of use I'd personally give the Stream 4 stars. It works perfectly for what I bought it for. The only reson I'd knock it a star is because I have run into a few minor issues with the software and one gltch that required a reboot of the Stream itself.
> 
> Dan


See I come from the school of thought where they are not. Products are tested and benchmarked and results given. I read a blog if i want an opinion


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

compnurd said:


> Another point is this Feature is not built into the STB of these cable companies. The streaming they support is over there cable network.. Not coming from the STB.. There is nothing Tivo can do about that


It still impacts the "goodness" of the Stream. Sure, there are factors outside of Tivo's control. The cablecos have infrastructure that Tivo doesn't have. None of that is the consumer's problem.

The consumer cares whether he gets value for his money, whether the device provides capabilities he desires, and the breadth and depth of those capabilities compared to competitors.



compnurd said:


> See I come from the school of thought where they are not. Products are tested and benchmarked and results given. I read a blog if i want an opinion


That's a very limited view of a 'review'. Most reviews include opinions and are highly subjective. Most reviews take into consideration value and usability. A solely performance-based review might be relevant for the latest graphics card or CPU, but it's generally not for a piece of consumer entertainment gear.

The stream isn't a device that's performance based. It gives me binary performance. I can either watch Tivo programming on my iPad or I cannot. It either performs 100% or 0%.


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## Dpordy99 (Nov 7, 2011)

SullyND said:


> Your is not You're. Let me get this straight. After having spent "like $600" on your Premiere and lifetime "membership" (it's not a membership), you'd rather fork over "like $600" again for a new Premiere with Stream built in than $129 to add Stream capability to your existing unit?


I wouldn't fork over $10 to buy this piece of crap. The only thing this does that my slingbox doesn't is transfer shows which is a feature that's completely useless to me because of all the copy protectoon.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Dpordy99 said:


> I wouldn't fork over $10 to buy this piece of crap. The only thing this does that my slingbox doesn't is transfer shows which is a feature that's completely useless to me because of all the copy protectoon.


So you have a crappy cable company, how is that TiVo's problem?


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

SullyND said:


> So you have a crappy cable company, how is that TiVo's problem?


It's Tivo's problem because customers having a cable companies that restrict copying limits the utility and marketability of the Stream.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Dpordy99 said:


> I wouldn't fork over $10 to buy this piece of crap. The only thing this does that my slingbox doesn't is transfer shows which is a feature that's completely useless to me because of all the copy protectoon.


Actually I have both a Slingbox and the TiVo Stream and I can tell you the TiVo Stream does a LOT better for streaming to my iPad inside the home. The quality is better and the control is significantly better. The Slingbox has a serious lag that makes FFing through commercials nearly impossible, the Sling responds almost instantly to commands.

Obviously each product has it's strengths... The Slingbox can stream outside the home and the TiVo Stream can transfer recordings. But where they overlap I think the Stream is better. However you need to decide what you plan to use it for and pick the one that best suits your needs. I don't think either device would qualify as a "piece of crap".

Dan


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## Dpordy99 (Nov 7, 2011)

I have the slingbox HD and the quality looks pretty damn good on HQ mode

I do agree that fast forwarding through commercials is annoying on sling. I ended up using the 30 second skip button instead of actually forwarding, however I'm not going to pay money for a better fast forward, that's the silverware. The meat & potatoes for me is does this allow you to download your shows to your iPad and can you stream outside of your home network? It does none of those things

Now if I had 4 teenagers and a wife and only 1 TV maybe I'd think this is the greatest thing ever. But again Cox advanced TV Pretty much the same thing and it's free


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Dpordy99 said:


> The meat & potatoes for me is does this allow you to download your shows to your iPad and can you stream outside of your home network? It does none of those things


Actually it does allow you to download shows to your iPad, it just depends on your cable company as to which shows you can download. In my case only the premium channels are protected so I can download almost anything.

As for streaming outside the home... You mentioned in another thread that the Slingbox doesn't work very well for that, and my own experience has been the same, so why are you putting so much value into that aspect of it? If it doesn't work in practice then that's the point in having it?

But in any case if you're happy with your Slingbox that's fine. But why do you feel the need to call the TiVo Stream a "piece of crap"? It does exactly what it's advertised as doing and it does it well. No need to bash it just because it doesn't meet your unfounded expectations.

Edit: One more thing... The Slingbox HD costs $270. Add the $30 for the iPad app* and you're looking at $300 for that setup. Is streaming outside the home really worth $170 to you?

Dan

* They charge $30 for every version of the app, so if you want to watch your Slingbox on your iPhone and your iPad you have to buy two $30 apps.


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## Dpordy99 (Nov 7, 2011)

How well the slingbox works depends on your internet connection. I tested it on the wifi at the Apple Store it worked fine. It worked at a Marriott I stayed at recently in Marina Del Ray. It worked great when I stayed at my parents house in Ohio. It did not work at all on the wifi that I paid for on an airplane, and when I stayed at the Marriot in Long Island it was stuttering like crazy (I was on the 10th floor), I went down to the lobby and it worked fine in the hotel lobby. 

Now it's never been perfect. Even when I say "It worked fine" it still pauses or stutters occasionally, which I find annoying but I'm not going to be selling my slingbox anytime soon since I have yet to find a better alternative

I am sticking up for the reviewer who god forbid "wasn't impressed with the product, how dare them not give this at least a 4, they must be biased and have an agenda"

I don't see this as a groundbreaking product, just TiVo catching up to features other cable companies have already rolled out.

As far as copy protection goes, I know Time Warner and RNC has it. Cox obviously has it because my shows are copy protected. A friend of mine who has Comcast tells me his stations all have copy protection. I know those are only 4 companies but that's still a lot of markets. 

TiVo should put a huge asterik in their marketing because I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed just like I was when I wasted $25 on Tivo2Go only to find out it's worthless


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Dpordy99 said:


> Your totally not understanding her complaint. After I got done paying for the lifetime membership I think I paid like $600 for the Tivo Premeire and the Lifetime. I could be off but I know it wasn't cheap. What she was saying is that for that amount of money you shouldn't have to pay another $150 for this, this should be built into Tivo. People who pay a subscription fee to HBO get to take their HBO on the road with them using HBO Go and you don't have to buy any additional hardware and you pay the same subscription fee whether you use HBOGo or you don't. With TivoStream you pay a subscription fee and you *DO* have to buy additional hardware and it only works in your home network and you can only transfer shows if you are lucky enough to have a cable provider that doesn't copy protect their content. HBOGO isn't limited to your home network. A perfect valid criticism.


If that is the argument, then it simply doesn't respect the technology being used. The Stream wasn't possible at even $130 until somewhat recently, much less baked into a box 2 and a half years ago without it costing *drastically* more than the $130 this costs.

The argument would be more valid if it weren't baked into the next box. In the meantime, I don't think it's valid to down-rate things they don't understand, complain about illogical shoulda/woulda/coulda's, or feign outrage in the wrong direction when (shock!) copy-protected content can't be copied.



Dpordy99 said:


> Now I totally disagree with you about this being a "unique capability". I believe this is only available for cable box subscribers (I have a cable card), but there is an iPad app through my cable provider called "Cox Advanced TV". Cox Advanced TV app allows you to watch any shows in your Cox DVR as well as live TV on your iPad. In fact since your watching it from Cox's servers you don't even have the restriction of being out of luck if you want to watch a show and you're TV is recording two different programs. Guess how much this app costs? $50? $100? $200? It's free!!! It is free. No additional hardware required, it's free.


The only Cox app I can find lets you stream live TV from about 2 dozen channels or so. I'm not seeing anything about all channels being available to stream and all DVR content being re-encoded into h.264 so that they're playable on iDevices... You MIGHT be exaggerating its ability.  Link?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Dpordy99 said:


> As far as copy protection goes, I know Time Warner and RNC has it. Cox obviously has it because my shows are copy protected. A friend of mine who has Comcast tells me his stations all have copy protection. I know those are only 4 companies but that's still a lot of markets.


Even among those providers only some copy protect everything. Time Warner is the exception. I think they copy protect everything in all their markets. However most Comcast markets only protect premium channels and RNC is the same way. I'm not sure about COX but there is a list around here somewhere with all the providers and the protection schemes they use in all their various markets. The majority of them only protect premium channels. And a few don't protect anything at all. (mine didn't until about a year ago)

Dan


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## Dpordy99 (Nov 7, 2011)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> If that is the argument, then it simply doesn't respect the technology being used. The Stream wasn't possible at even $130 until somewhat recently, much less baked into a box 2 and a half years ago without it costing *drastically* more than the $130 this costs.
> 
> The argument would be more valid if it weren't baked into the next box. In the meantime, I don't think it's valid to down-rate things they don't understand, complain about illogical shoulda/woulda/coulda's, or feign outrage in the wrong direction when (shock!) copy-protected content can't be copied.


Cable companies offer similar features without requiring you to buy a new cable box. Now the cable companies have an advantage because the streaming is over the cable network, however that doesn't matter to most consumers. Most consumers when they buy a product do not grade on a curve, which is basically what your asking for here.

As far as copying copy protected content goes, Consumers don't care whose fault it is. All they care about is that they paid $130 for a product that doesn't do what is says it does.



BigJimOutlaw said:


> The only Cox app I can find lets you stream live TV from about 2 dozen channels or so. I'm not seeing anything about all channels being available to stream and all DVR content being re-encoded into h.264 so that they're playable on iDevices... You MIGHT be exaggerating its ability.  Link?


I'm talking about the app that they constantly advertise. I've never looked it up in the app store. As far as h.264 goes, the average consumer just wants to be able to watch their shows and doesn't even know what h.264 is. They don't obsess over the quality. If quality was a huge deal, CD stores wouldn't be going away in favor of MP3's.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Dpordy99 said:


> Cable companies offer similar features without requiring you to buy a new cable box. Now the cable companies have an advantage because the streaming is over the cable network, however that doesn't matter to most consumers. Most consumers when they buy a product do not grade on a curve, which is basically what your asking for here.
> 
> As far as copying copy protected content goes, Consumers don't care whose fault it is. All they care about is that they paid $130 for a product that doesn't do what is says it does.


The thing is, they're not all that similar. No cable company comes close to mimicking everything the Stream can do, whether through hardware or their network. Some MSO's have live streaming apps with a small set of channels. Some might even have (or will have) VOD apps. But none of them are this comprehensive -- stream any/all channels, stream any/all recordings. I don't think any of them have sideloading either. And most providers don't have any options at all yet. So Tivo's option is still much better than no option, or the very limited "free" options given by providers.

In reality, Tivo is potentially as much as a year ahead of everybody else by releasing this now as an accessory rather than sitting on it until they can build it into their next generation boxes. I don't expect a rating curve; I simply understand that few other options come close, and won't in the short term. The price can be debated, but the value of what it does is much greater than free alternatives considering it has little or no equivalent competition, and I wouldn't down rate it for not existing at reasonable consumer-level pricing 2.5 years ago.



Dpordy99 said:


> I'm talking about the app that they constantly advertise. I've never looked it up in the app store. As far as h.264 goes, the average consumer just wants to be able to watch their shows and doesn't even know what h.264 is. They don't obsess over the quality. If quality was a huge deal, CD stores wouldn't be going away in favor of MP3's.


You're right, the format doesn't matter. I only mentioned it because you said the app had DVR playback. For that to be possible, Cox would need their own version of a Stream or the DVR would need to have the h.264 transcoding capability built-in. But the app and DVR have no such features.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

sbiller said:


> I don't think its a lot of money compared to the $700+ I paid for my LTE iPad. I suppose its all relative. I guess I would give my Slingbox a really bad rating because the box is expensive and every app for every platform is $29.99.
> 
> I would argue with you that the Stream is providing a unique capability and for $129 its a pretty good value -- 4 stars.


I would agree. $30 for the iPad app and the another $30 for the iPhone app and then another $30 for the android app. That's just insane.

At least the app for boxee is free.


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## Dpordy99 (Nov 7, 2011)

magnus said:


> I would agree. $30 for the iPad app and the another $30 for the iPhone app and then another $30 for the android app. That's just insane.
> 
> At least the app for boxee is free.


The reviewer said that price had very little impact on her review.

I'd rather pay $30 for the slingplayer and $250 for the slingbox and have it work than pay $150 for the TiVo thing only for it to not work.

Your getting a lot more for your money with the slingbox IMO.


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## Dpordy99 (Nov 7, 2011)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> So Tivo's option is still much better than no option, or the very limited "free" options given by providers.
> 
> In reality, Tivo is potentially as much as a year ahead of everybody else by releasing this now as an accessory rather than sitting on it until they can build it into their next generation boxes. I don't expect a rating curve; I simply understand that few other options come close, and won't in the short term. The price can be debated, but the value of what it does is much greater than free alternatives considering it has little or no equivalent competition, and I wouldn't down rate it for not existing at reasonable consumer-level pricing 2the app had DVR.


If you could use it like a slingplayer and watch your TV anywhere I would sort of agree with you, but what's so great about all these bells and whistles if you have to be on your home network. The fact that you are limited to your home network is a deal breaker for me, throw in the fact that there's a good chance your not going to be able to download your shows and I don't think this is a "great value"

If I want to watch America's got Talent why would I watch it on my iPad when I can watch it on my 60" TV?

Also lets say you get past the copy protection and you are in Paris for 10 days. I'm pretty sure you have to be on your home network to download your shows, so if there is a few shows you want to download that were recorded during your vacation, and you want to download them in Paris for the long flight back you are out of luck

Sorry being able to watch your cable on your iPad in the same house where your 60" TV sits is not that cool. Being in a hotel room in Germany and accessing your TiVo from San Diego, now that's cool!

If you've got $150 to blow on this, you probably can afford to have more than one TV


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

Dpordy99 said:


> Sorry being able to watch your cable on your iPad in the same house where your 60" TV sits is not that cool.


Wait.. You just harped about how your Cox Advanced TV could do this... So that is not cool also?


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

Dpordy99 said:


> If you could use it like a slingplayer and watch your TV anywhere I would sort of agree with you, but what's so great about all these bells and whistles if you have to be on your home network. The fact that you are limited to your home network is a deal breaker for me, throw in the fact that there's a good chance your not going to be able to download your shows and I don't think this is a "great value"
> 
> If I want to watch America's got Talent why would I watch it on my iPad when I can watch it on my 60" TV?
> 
> ...


Keep in mind the broadcast networks are mandated by the FCC to be marked 'Copy Freely' so even on a restricted network like TWC or BHN a consumer would be able to sideload the Primetime anytime networks (e.g., ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, etc.).


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

19 comments on a PCMag.com review... just scanning through about half a dozen past reviews and that appears to be a very high number of comments for them! :up:


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

sbiller said:


> 19 comments on a PCMag.com review... just scanning through about half a dozen past reviews and that appears to be a very high number of comments for them! :up:


Thats what happens when you review something and complain about a part of the product it states it can not do...

That would be like me complaining to Suzuki that the Kazashi doesn't have a built in cappuccino maker.. even though the commercial shows one and it says it doesn't have it


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

compnurd said:


> Wait.. You just harped about how your Cox Advanced TV could do this... So that is not cool also?


Yep. That's the reason I started the thread. Ben at Engadget gave a much more balanced review of the Stream. He complains about the Price but his review is more comprehensive and accurate.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/04/tivo-stream-transcoder-review/


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

sbiller said:


> Yep. That's the reason I started the thread. Ben at Engadget gave a much more balanced review of the Stream. He complains about the Price but his review is more comprehensive and accurate.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/04/tivo-stream-transcoder-review/


Agreed.. Much better review.. Didnt have to listen to him harp about his TWC service


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Dpordy99 said:


> The reviewer said that price had very little impact on her review.
> 
> I'd rather pay $30 for the slingplayer and $250 for the slingbox and have it work than pay $150 for the TiVo thing only for it to not work.
> 
> Your getting a lot more for your money with the slingbox IMO.


That's your opinion. I'm sure there are lots of folks that would disagree with you on this.


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## Dpordy99 (Nov 7, 2011)

compnurd said:


> Wait.. You just harped about how your Cox Advanced TV could do this... So that is not cool also?


No it's not cool and I never said I had Cox advanced TV. At least Cox advanced TV is free though


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

After comparing it to incomparable free apps, you're now going the other way and comparing it to something twice as expensive.  The Slingbox point I'll grant you to the extend that the feature is not offered and it would be nice if it was for those that actually care about it. Although, technically it is... in the form of a Slingbox. If they open that floodgate one day, fine by me.

But I wouldn't expect and then complain about not getting it in a Stream for half the price either. I'm also not giving Roombas lower ratings on Amazon for not being Rosie the Jetsons' robot maid.


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## button1066 (Sep 4, 2012)

3/5 seems too low. I think the functionality is perfect. As far as the stuff about "i want to control my TiVo from Paris" goes it just makes me want to laugh. As if there is nothing better to do in Paris than watch a stuttery internet video of your DVR at home in America. I much, much prefer a focused high quality experience than a compromised effort which is what I consider something like Slingplayer to be.

Incidentally I say this as someone who has done a lot of business travelling in Europe and Japan. The sideloading on an iPad would be a dream on a 10+ hour flight. 

There are so many little fun things about the Stream for me. Being able to check out shows while someone else is watching the TiVo is one of them. Another one is the way watching TV in bed is so much nicer on a device that you hold like a book. Even the interface is great, it makes me wonder what Apple are planning for their move into TV, specifically the way that a touch screen is so quick and intuitive for controlling TV playback.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

What might be cool is if TiVo offered a way to access the Stream from outside the network for side loading only. (there might be some copyright issues for streaming) Then you can reload your iPad with video for your return flight. You can pretty much already do this with a TiVo using TiVoToGo and the http interface, but it would be nicer to transfer the smaller transcoded streams from the TiVo directly to the iPad.

Dan


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## Dpordy99 (Nov 7, 2011)

button1066 said:


> 3/5 seems too low. I think the functionality is perfect. As far as the stuff about "i want to control my TiVo from Paris" goes it just makes me want to laugh. As if there is nothing better to do in Paris than watch a stuttery internet video of your DVR at home in America. I much, much prefer a focused high quality experience than a compromised effort which is what I consider something like Slingplayer to be.


Slingplayer looks great if you've got a good internet connection.

This would be cool if you were in Paris, you had a flight back to the US the next morning so you downloaded a bunch of shows off your DVR to your iPad while you were sleeping. Then on the airplane ride home you can watch them. Unfortunately you can't do this.

And we will have to agree to disagree. I would much rather watch a show on my Pioneer Elite 60" than the 9.7" screen on my iPad. Looks like I'm in the minority on this one.

One thing I'd like to see is the next iPad bump up the memory to 128 GB, but I will believe when I see it as apple seems to be moving away from physical storage and moving more towards cloud based storage with services like iTunes match


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Dpordy99 said:


> This would be cool if you were in Paris, you had a flight back to the US the next morning so you downloaded a bunch of shows off your DVR to your iPad while you were sleeping. Then on the airplane ride home you can watch them. Unfortunately you can't do this.


If TiVo didn't use Bonjure for discovery this would work fine. In the old days they used a simpler UDP based discovery protocol that actually worked via VPN. I'm not sure why they decided to switch to Bonjure which does not support VPN. TiVo Desktop has the option to use either one. If that added a similar option to the iOS app, or a way to select the TiVo manually via IP address, then you would be able to actually do that.

Dan


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

True story. So my mom shows up for lunch today, and we both get out our iPads to brag about our latest app. I excited to show off my _Tivo Stream_. "Look at this", I say, "I can watch an episode of Perception on my iPad, streamed from my Tivo that's right over there".

She says "yeah, I've got that too" and opens HBO Go, which has a dazzling array of cool looking programs and she starts streaming _The Newsroom_. She can do this while visiting my house, nowhere near her DVR, and not needing to have scheduled any of these recordings. Her app is "free".

Therein lies the problem with the Tivo Stream and why it gets a 3 out 5 rating. It's a $130 device that gives you a capability that many people think they already have, and it has a proximity requirement to the home LAN. Sure, we TCF nerds can argue about how our thing can stream any program we've recorded, and how our latency is low, and how $130 really is a reasonable price considering the manufacturing and marketing costs, and how the HBO Go app isn't really "free" since you pay for HBO. However, the average person just doesn't care. They already have an app that streams cable programming. They don't need to buy a $130 box.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Apples and oranges. The Stream is like your TiVo and HBOGo is like your OnDemmand service. Most peoplemwould still just watch their TiVo then wade through all the options in onDemmand just to, maybe, find the show they're looking for. 

Someday services like that will be king, but for now there is still a market for DVRs and streaming their content to other devices. 

Dan


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

We should start taking numbers as to when it goes from 130 to 99. Seems that the slide took about 4 months to drop in price...


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

jrtroo said:


> We should start taking numbers as to when it goes from 130 to 99. Seems that the slide took about 4 months to drop in price...


Early adopters always pay a premium. I think I paid $800 in order to have the S3 by Christmas. And remember all the complaints when the iPhone dropped in price just a year later?

Putting aside R&D and marketing costs, the Stream has a specific cost to manufacture. If the market cannot support the device @ cost + a small profit then TiVo will stop selling the product.

Unfortunately / fortunately (based on your perspective) Apple has become the Wal-Mart of the CE world. They have created such downward price pressure with their Foxcon labor camps in China that nobody can compete anymore.

Since TiVo is a small company with a modest distribution, it cannot possible match the price points you are looking for.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> Apples and oranges.


To us, yes. However, try to explain the difference to a non-technical user who has HBO Go. They won't see a bit of difference, other than we paid $130 for what they got "for free".



jrtoo said:


> We should start taking numbers as to when it goes from 130 to 99.


What surprises me is that they didn't just integrate this onto the motherboard and market a "Tivo 4.5" (or in apple-speak, the "Tivo 4S").


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

I'm not looking for the price to drop (i'm actually looking for android support), I'm forecasting it based upon TiVo's history and the general trend for the slow elimination of the early adopter tax. 

I believe Apple's big deal was that their initial iphone price drop was so _soon _after launch. Now their prices seem to drop with regularity after the early adopters swoop in, so those who are patient can time when to jump in for purchase..


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

smbaker said:


> To us, yes. However, try to explain the difference to a non-technical user who has HBO Go. They won't see a bit of difference, other than we paid $130 for what they got "for free".
> 
> What surprises me is that they didn't just integrate this onto the motherboard and market a "Tivo 4.5" (or in apple-speak, the "Tivo 4S").


That and for MANY cable users like myself, HBO Go is not offered...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

HBOGo is a great service! I use it all the time even though I have a TiVo. They offer every original program they've ever aired. I wish more content providers would add a service like that. My only complaint is I have to use my XBox to view it. I wish there was a TiVo app for it instead.

Dan


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