# Chicago antenna help!



## mib66 (Jan 6, 2005)

Hi all -

OK - first, a shout out to the NFC Champion Chicago Bears. 
Ahem...with that out of the way, I have got a serious problem with my HR10. I live in Chicago (in the city), and get all of my HD locals via OTA. Well, all except for WBBM, my local CBS affiliate. I'm just using the antenna that DTV installed with my HR10. Its fine for the other networks, but WBBM is intermittent. I've tried rescanning, but now I get nothing, just the "searching for signals" message.

So, now that Chicagoans all suddenly have a greater vested interest in watching the Superbowl in HD, I find I can't. They thought about the network feed waiver thing, but now they assure me they can't. They also can;t get me an HR20 in time, so thats out. I did tell them I was ready to jump to a proved who can get me the game in HD, and after the transferred call runaround with about 5 CSRs, they have promised to credit me (up to $200) for the cost of a new, more powerful, antenna. Any thoughts on the best kind for me to get better OTA reception, and how to get it installed (without me doing it, that is!)
thanks for your help!


----------



## purduelion (Jan 13, 2004)

I used the Terk Indoor when I lived in Lincoln Park and had the same problem. The Terk picks up both UHF, and VHF. I just joined the terk to that other antenna right before the tivo, played with the 2 masts, and I picked up 2-1 better then any other station. Even in bad weather.


----------



## mib66 (Jan 6, 2005)

sounds promising - can you explain how you joined the Terk to the DTV one before the Tivo? Does the Terk have a line in/out?


----------



## purduelion (Jan 13, 2004)

nope, just use a combiner


----------



## imadvaddict (Jan 19, 2007)

Try this little gem from Radio Shack mount it as high as possible outdoors,

We are using this free floating inside our home. Works fantastic when in the right position, but I do have to get off my duff and mount it on the exterior one of these days.


HDTV UHF Outdoor Antenna
Model: DA-5200 | Catalog #: 15-2186

A lot of people have had great success with the model below indoors

UHF Dual HDTV Indoor Antenna
Model: 15-624 | Catalog #: 15-624


(Crap wont work well below)
UHF/VHF/FM Indoor Antenna With 12-Position Fine-Tuning
Model: 15-1868 | Catalog #: 15-1868 

Audiovox® Terk® HDTVi UHF/VHF HDTV Indoor Antenna
Model: HDTVI | Catalog #: 55015503

DA' BEARS FAN


----------



## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

Get the Terk HDTVi. I was able to pickup WBBM at my sisters house in Deerfield. The problem with WBBM is that its digital station is on channel 3. Low VHF channels are hard to pickup and are subject to interference. The Terk has a great UHF section and arials that pull out for VHF. Pull out the arials and spread them apart to a very wide V. It should work well for you.


----------



## imadvaddict (Jan 19, 2007)

Runch Machine said:


> Get the Terk HDTVi. I was able to pickup WBBM at my sisters house in Deerfield. The problem with WBBM is that its digital station is on channel 3. Low VHF channels are hard to pickup and are subject to interference. The Terk has a great UHF section and arials that pull out for VHF. Pull out the arials and spread them apart to a very wide V. It should work well for you.


We still have this antenna and are in Lincoln Park area, will try it out again. Before we return it. But nothing has worked as well as the DA-5200 so far. Its a very compact unit also. +++


----------



## tem (Oct 6, 2003)

The Zenith/Phillips Silver Sensor is what you want. It says it's UHF only but I actually have it mounted on my roof and am able to receive all OTA stations. They have them at Circuit City.


----------



## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

tem said:


> The Zenith/Phillips Silver Sensor is what you want. It says it's UHF only but I actually have it mounted on my roof and am able to receive all OTA stations. They have them at Circuit City.


That is very surprising because WBBM on channel 3 needs long elements to pick it up. I suspect you got lucky. I would not recommend a UHF only antenna for channels below 6.


----------



## mib66 (Jan 6, 2005)

thanks for the help everybody. i should specify that I already have an antenna mounted outside, next to the dish. it picks up everything, but only picks up WBBM about 10% of the time. I'll try the Terk indoor one to see how that works...


----------



## Todd76 (Jan 12, 2002)

Why can't you get channel 80? Did DirecTV stop offering that for O&O markets?


----------



## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

Yes. Unless you got it when it first came out it is nearly impossible to get them to turn it on now.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Runch Machine said:


> Yes. Unless you got it when it first came out it is nearly impossible to get them to turn it on now.


I'm glad I got it early then. 

It sucks, I wish they could have put it in UHF like everybody else. RF Channel 3 is pretty susceptible to electronic noise interference, too.


----------



## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

You are right about that. The interference makes it really tough to get a digital lock as well. WBBM has tried to change its digital channel but all other channels have been assigned. When the analog shut off occurs in Feb 2009 WBBM's digital channel will move to channel 11 (I think it's 11 I know it's going higher).


----------



## finaldiet (May 10, 2004)

I tried a silver senser and didn't work. I live 25 SW of Chi-Town. Found an old antenna in attic, all dirty and laying on rafters. Connected wire to HR10 and picture is fantastic on every channel, even 2. It has a wing-span of about 8 ft, used wire adapter that was hanging on it, and left it laying on box. Your antenna doesn't have to say HD for an attenna to work. Just a gimmick to get more money out of a person. Try a large antenna in attic, if you have one. Should work great!


----------



## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

A Silver Sensor won't work unless you're cvery close, and neither will any other UHF antenna. Depending on where you live, what you need is a good VHF antenna. Big wingspan to get that VHF 3.

If you're getting signal but it's weak, you can consider adding a pre-amp like the Channel Master 7777. Also, roof is best: putting the antenna in your house kills over 80% of the signal (assuming no aluminum siding; if you've got aluminum siding, just forget it).

Go surf the Chicago OTA thread at avsforum; 90% of the chatter is about getting WBBM, and some serious engineers hang out there with excellent info.


----------



## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

Runch Machine said:


> You are right about that. The interference makes it really tough to get a digital lock as well. WBBM has tried to change its digital channel but all other channels have been assigned. When the analog shut off occurs in Feb 2009 WBBM's digital channel will move to channel 11 (I think it's 11 I know it's going higher).


They haven't really tried to change; in fact, they've missed several opportunities to do so.

Yes, after shutdown they are moving to 11, but at even lower power due to co-channel interference. It's going to be awful. See avsforum for the ugly details.


----------



## finaldiet (May 10, 2004)

cheer said:


> A Silver Sensor won't work unless you're cvery close, and neither will any other UHF antenna. Depending on where you live, what you need is a good VHF antenna. Big wingspan to get that VHF 3.
> 
> If you're getting signal but it's weak, you can consider adding a pre-amp like the Channel Master 7777. Also, roof is best: putting the antenna in your house kills over 80% of the signal (assuming no aluminum siding; if you've got aluminum siding, just forget it).
> 
> Go surf the Chicago OTA thread at avsforum; 90% of the chatter is about getting WBBM, and some serious engineers hang out there with excellent info.


Cheer
I don't know how old my antenna is, but on 2-1, I can probably see a flea on someones hair. I believe any big antenna will pick up HD, but being a novice, I may be wrong.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

finaldiet said:


> Cheer
> I don't know how old my antenna is, but on 2-1, I can probably see a flea on someones hair. I believe any big antenna will pick up HD, but being a novice, I may be wrong.


You are correct in that there is no difference for an antenna in picking up a digital (HD) channel or an analog channel. And when you say any "big antenna," you are pretty much correct there too. A "big" antenna will be tuned to receive VHF channels efficiently. Antennas are frequency sensitive. You need a big antenna for optimal reception of long wavelengths like the low channel numbers, especially 2 through 6. (2-1 broadcasts on RF channel 3)

And typically, a big antenna will also have smaller elements, which are tuned for the UHF frequencies which have shorter wavelengths. I think that every channel in Chicago except 2-1 is in or near the UHF part of the RF spectrum.

You have a big antenna in the attic, as do I. I also have an amplifier in the attic that the antenna immediately feeds. I'm 41 miles from Sears Tower, and I get all the channels, although channel 2-1 is not always reliable. I fortunately have Channel 80, and record my CBS HD programs there.

The Silver Sensor is a nice compact antenna for folks who don't have to pick up a VHF station, or are rather close to the transmitters, and don't want to do a permanent installation. For many, it's all they need. But certainly not me


----------



## A J Ricaud (Jun 25, 2002)

SpankyinChicago posted his success in this forum. Try a search--maybe his experience will help you.


----------



## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

According to this website:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

The Channel Master 3671B has the best performance for channel 3 (2.1 WBBM).

You want the antenna with the best directionality, which means the antenna with the best net gain at frequency, and this is the best one for channel 3, and it is also good for UHF. This will give you the best chance at rejecting multipath interference. Unfortunately, there is no cure for impulse noise interference, but decreasing the multipath ratio by using this antenna might be enough to keep the impulse noise interference at bay.

You might also check the local reception forum for your market at AVS, which will give the success stories for WBBM.


----------



## finaldiet (May 10, 2004)

hefe said:


> You are correct in that there is no difference for an antenna in picking up a digital (HD) channel or an analog channel. And when you say any "big antenna," you are pretty much correct there too. A "big" antenna will be tuned to receive VHF channels efficiently. Antennas are frequency sensitive. You need a big antenna for optimal reception of long wavelengths like the low channel numbers, especially 2 through 6. (2-1 broadcasts on RF channel 3)
> 
> And typically, a big antenna will also have smaller elements, which are tuned for the UHF frequencies which have shorter wavelengths. I think that every channel in Chicago except 2-1 is in or near the UHF part of the RF spectrum.
> 
> ...


I didn't do anything to antenna. Had to straighten a couple of elements on it. Didn't even clean the dirt off and channel 2-1 comes in about 91-93 and picture is fantastic. Oh yea, I guessed at the right direction to point it so I guess I just got lucky.


----------



## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

finaldiet said:


> Cheer
> I don't know how old my antenna is, but on 2-1, I can probably see a flea on someones hair. I believe any big antenna will pick up HD, but being a novice, I may be wrong.


Yep, you are. A UHF antenna is all but useless for picking up 2-1. You need a VHF antenna.


----------



## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

TyroneShoes said:


> You want the antenna with the best directionality, which means the antenna with the best net gain at frequency, and this is the best one for channel 3, and it is also good for UHF. This will give you the best chance at rejecting multipath interference. Unfortunately, there is no cure for impulse noise interference, but decreasing the multipath ratio by using this antenna might be enough to keep the impulse noise interference at bay.
> 
> You might also check the local reception forum for your market at AVS, which will give the success stories for WBBM.


Right as rain.

The one that "sebenste" on the avs thread recommends to those of us who live a ways out is the Winegard HD8200P. It's a biggun, but I am told it is good for locking WBBM in even adverse conditions, and will also grab the other stuff around here.

And as I think I mentioned before...outside, if at all possible. My antenna is in the attic, and that's just killing me.

(And yeah impulse noise can be loads of fun...a buddy of mine loses WBBM whenever the compressor of his fridge kicks in.)

Man, VHF-Lo...what were they _thinking?_


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

finaldiet said:


> Cheer
> I don't know how old my antenna is, but on 2-1, I can probably see a flea on someones hair. I believe any big antenna will pick up HD, but being a novice, I may be wrong.





cheer said:


> Yep, you are. A UHF antenna is all but useless for picking up 2-1. You need a VHF antenna.


How is he wrong?  He didn't say he had a UHF antenna. A "big" antenna, like what he has ("wing span of 8 feet"), is a VHF antenna. He only said that being HD doesn't matter, and he is correct.


----------



## a/vguy (Jul 15, 2002)

I am out in the NW suburbs and I get all the OTA HD channels from an attic antenna except NBC 5. I cannot find an HD signal for them. Does anyone else have this problem?


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

a/vguy said:


> I am out in the NW suburbs and I get all the OTA HD channels from an attic antenna except NBC 5. I cannot find an HD signal for them. Does anyone else have this problem?


Now that is odd. What suburb?

I would be shocked if you could get CBS and not NBC.

What kind of antenna do you have, and where is it mounted?


----------



## a/vguy (Jul 15, 2002)

I am out in Hoffman Estates and I am using an old Winegard antenna in the attic. Others I have spoken to about this said NBC only sends HD through the cable companies. On the NBC website, they do not specifically say they are broadcasting an HD signal all the time like ABC has been saying recently.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

a/vguy said:


> I am out in Hoffman Estates and I am using an old Winegard antenna in the attic. Others I have spoken to about this said NBC only sends HD through the cable companies. On the NBC website, they do not specifically say they are broadcasting an HD signal all the time like ABC has been saying recently.


I receive HD NBC on 5-1 over the air with no trouble. It's on RF channel 29. Hoffman Estates should be easy.

The red line is my path to the transmitter, the green is yours. Unless you have some bad local interference, I don't know why you would have any trouble.


----------



## a/vguy (Jul 15, 2002)

Thanks for the information. I will try again to lock the signal in when I get home tonight.


----------



## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

a/vguy said:


> I am out in Hoffman Estates and I am using an old Winegard antenna in the attic. Others I have spoken to about this said NBC only sends HD through the cable companies. On the NBC website, they do not specifically say they are broadcasting an HD signal all the time like ABC has been saying recently.


As hefe pointed out, that's not the case. NBC comes across beautifully OTA.

WMAQ-DT is frequency 29. WCIU-DT is at 27 and WFLD-DT is at 31, so if you can lock in Fox (32-1) and "The U" (26-1) you should be able to lock 5-1 no problem. (All 3 are also on the Sears, so even the direction is the same.)


----------



## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

hefe said:


> How is he wrong?  He didn't say he had a UHF antenna. A "big" antenna, like what he has ("wing span of 8 feet"), is a VHF antenna. He only said that being HD doesn't matter, and he is correct.


I was picking nits, I suppose -- a big Yagi won't pull in WBBM very well. But I'm probably just cranky as I'm going to have to watch the Super Bowl in overcompressed 480 x 480 ugliness.


----------



## fistafury (Jan 30, 2007)

I just screwed a Terrestrial Digital V21 to my roof today and words connot describe my happiness. I had been getting OTA HD with a set-top Terk unit, but the VHF WBBM signal has eluded me until now. Crystal clear picture and full 5.1 surround baby. Anyone interested? I could shoot the tech's number to ya. :up: :up:


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Good job. I know I could get WBBM better if I just went outside with my antenna, but I don't feel like putting a big ugly antenna outside. If they ever took away channel 80, maybe I'd move it outside, but until then, I'm doing ok with the attic antenna and an amp.

It's just a Radio Shack rooftop model, not even a particularly big one...I recall it cost less than $40.


----------



## RexTrout (Jan 5, 2001)

I too am in Chicago and am using the OTA antenna that DirecTV installed. However, I receive channel 2 and channel 5 (and 9 and 32) just fine in HD. I can't reliably get 7.1 and can't get 11.1 11.2 or 11.3 at all. 

Is a new antenna the solution to my problems too?


----------



## JRAllas (Mar 26, 2006)

When I realized the Superbowl was gonna be on Channel 2 (WBBM) in the Chicago area my jaw dropped. Channel 2 is the worst channel to receive even if you're in the city. I'm located in Crest Hill, IL, just North of Joliet. I purchased a 40 inch UHF/VHF/FM antenna from a local Radio shack, mounted it about a foot under my DirecTV dish, on the same mast, routed the coax to my HR10-250 receiver and channel 2-1 is crystal clear. I pointed the antenna in the general direction of Chicago and when I tested the antenna signal strength the lowest signal level was channel 2-1 at about 70. The rest of the OTA channels are over 90. I'm unable to receive one channel from Gary, IN that I never watch, anyway. Previously, I was using an amplified set of rabbit ears I picked up from Best Buy and was able to see the last playoff game on channel 32-1 with no glitches, but was unable to see channel 2-1. I think as long as you point it in the right direction, a large car radiator will do just fine (just kidding). I just hated the idea of watching the game in standard definition stretched out across my 65" television, especially when we invited a bunch of people over.


----------

