# Mad Men - "Commissions and Fees" - 06/03/12



## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

I do believe I called that one.


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

That was depressing... I really liked that character.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Can't imagine firing someone then that happens. The guilt must be mind-blowing.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

There were a lot of packed into the episode tonight. Wow. Not just Lane, but also Sally and the Firestone pitch. After all of that, I liked Don letting Glen drive the car. Nice.


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## redrouteone (Jun 16, 2001)

gossamer88 said:


> Can't imagine firing someone then that happens. The guilt must be mind-blowing.


No joke. In the grand scheme of things Don was letting him off with a slap on the rist. Steal $7500, then get to resign with no one knowing what you did. Inflation adjusted that would be nearly $50K now.

I did think it was interesting he first tried in the Jag, but it wouldn't start.

Don is right. That moment in his office was the hardest part about starting over. Pryce was a good, smart guy who did something stupid in a moment of desperation. He could have rebuilt, heck no reason to even go back to the UK. At that time there would plenty of places he could have moved to as a British citizen. I wonder what Don will do when his number finally comes up. I don't think he'll kill him self, but I could see him skipping town with all of the money.


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## avery (May 29, 2006)

When they broke into Lane's office, the panicked horror on Don's face was palpable. I kept thinking about his rejection of Adam, the guilt over his suicide and now Lane's, in the same manner... and I think that's what Don was reacting to as well.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

betts4 said:


> There were a lot of packed into the episode tonight. Wow. Not just Lane, but also Sally and *the Firestone pitch*. After all of that, I liked Don letting Glen drive the car. Nice.


I thought he was a Dow. Firestone doesn't make napalm.


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## jdfs (Oct 21, 2002)

betts4 said:


> There were a lot of packed into the episode tonight. Wow. Not just Lane, but also Sally and the Firestone pitch. After all of that, I liked Don letting Glen drive the car. Nice.


The pitch was to Dow Chemicals.


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

Since Lane had been hiding the money troubles from his wife, she had no idea that the check she wrote for the Jag was going to bounce. If Lane was teetering before, that pushed him over the edge. As soon as he tried to start the Jag with the ignition key, choke and starter button I was just sure it wouldn't start, at least not the first time. Trying to fix it, looking under the hood with his just-broken eyeglasses, I felt even more sad for him.

It was a pretty full episode, but I'd wished we saw or heard something of Peggy.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Idearat said:


> Since Lane had been hiding the money troubles from his wife, she had no idea that the check she wrote for the Jag was going to bounce. If Lane was teetering before, that pushed him over the edge. As soon as he tried to start the Jag with the ignition key, choke and starter button I was just sure it wouldn't start, at least not the first time. Trying to fix it, looking under the hood with his just-broken eyeglasses, I felt even more sad for him.


And he actually spent several hours balancing the books and putting them in order before he killed himself.

Just goes to prove the old adage about death and taxes. He was literally taxed to death.


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

That was just heartbreaking.

It was sweet to see Sally need her mommy. Betty being understanding and kind and them having a "moment" was just very nice and in such stark contrast to everything else that was going on.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

Poor Henry gets :30 of screen time and it's in that sweater. 

This episode was pretty incredible, with wonderful acting all around. I was particularly impressed with Hendricks as she processed what was happening from Lane's door to the guys looking over and confirming. That happened over several cuts, that's not an easy job to remember where you were emotionally from one cut to the next and keep the progression going.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

robojerk said:


> I thought he was a Dow. Firestone doesn't make napalm.





jdfs said:


> The pitch was to Dow Chemicals.


Oops. I just kept hearing Firestone, I thought it was them.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

Did SCDP have life insurance against Lane's death? I think Pete Campbell said the policy on him covered suicide after 2 years. Of course, Lane made a point of resigning first.

The failure with the Jaguar was a good callback to Cooper's "They're lemons, they never start." line. Lane offing himself in the Jag seems like attempt to make a statement.

Glen may be creepy and weird, but he's not a pedophile.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

The scene where they were waiting on the meeting with Dow and Roger wanted to discuss Don's play and Don said he wanted to go in fresh is an inside joke so to speak. On the actors studio they said they do not rehearse their scenes they do them on the first take because they wanted to be fresh.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I know Lane owed Britain's version of the IRS $7,500 but how much trouble was he really in? It's not like they were going to throw him in jail if he had paid the debt and whatever penalty off late. 

It was pretty crappy of Lane to kill himself in the office. Assuming he had life insurance, he should have driven into a wall or off a cliff. Anything but obvious suicide. Now his wife gets nothing.

I was surprised neither Don nor Megan thought about hiring a cab to take Sally back to school. It's not like Don couldn't afford it.


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## DrEvil (Oct 26, 2002)

I loved the line that Ken said to Roger when Roger offered a partnership in exchange for Ken helping get his father in law at Dow to switch to SCDP.

Something along the line of - I've seen what it takes to make partner, and I don't want sink that low.

So it appears to me that what Joan did to get her partnership is now known among the employees of SCDP.


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

vman41 said:


> Did SCDP have life insurance against Lane's death? I think Pete Campbell said the policy on him covered suicide after 2 years. Of course, Lane made a point of resigning first.........


Hmmm, interesting.... I wonder if that nullifies the payout to the firm since technically he wasn't employed there when he died......?

I got a kick out of the Jaguar not starting. How typical.  My mother owned one and you didn't even dare drive it through a large puddle for fear of it conking out on you. 

Enjoyed hearing the old school terminology Betty used, "Sally became a woman today." Kind of heartwarming to see Sally show up not at Megan's, but instead back at her own home seeking out Betty. I'm glad to see Sally and Betty's bond isn't too far gone. I'm sure Betty was, too.  :up:

I repeat: I wish I had 1/10th of Roger Sterling's suaveness.

My interpretation of Don's new big-account-seeking attitude: "If this is going to be the kind of crap I have to put up with (Joan whoring herself, Lane's suicide), it better damn well be worth it." Pedal to the metal from here on out, and it better well be a Chevrolet gas pedal. I think this anger energizes Don and wakes him from the creative coma he's been in this season. Of course, this sets up next season's stories.

Strange how Lane's death didn't really hit me until I saw the Mets' pennant in his office - how he tried hard to become something other than what he was, but in the end, he died unable to escape who he had been raised to be - an introverted, rule-following man, subordinant to more dominant males and whose conservative, proper British upbringing closed off much of life to him. Has anyone ever been able to successfully escape who they are?

Watching Lane's wife innocently gift the car to Lane was painful to watch, too. She believed so much in Lane.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

TiVo'Brien said:


> Watching Lane's wife innocently gift the car to Lane was painful to watch, too. She believed so much in Lane.


I couldn't believe she would be so naive as to write a $6000 check without bothering to see if there was enough money in the checking account.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

john4200 said:


> I couldn't believe she would be so naive as to write a $6000 check without bothering to see if there was enough money in the checking account.


I may have only been a $5000 check, she said she got a good deal. When don wrote the $6000 check it was more than the price of the car.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

DrEvil said:


> So it appears to me that what Joan did to get her partnership is now known among the employees of SCDP.


I disagree. I don't think anyone in the office knows about Joan. Ken knows because he was involved - he was there was the Jaguar guy made the proposition. But I don't think he would have gossiped about it. His line was more general about what he's seen the partners have to do up to and including that.

I did like that he made sure Pete wouldn't sniff the Dow account!


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## rifleman69 (Jan 6, 2005)

john4200 said:


> I couldn't believe she would be so naive as to write a $6000 check without bothering to see if there was enough money in the checking account.


Different era, where many women weren't involved in the money side of things except spending it!


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

I also liked when Don said something along the lines of "would you like me to leave the room so y'all can go ahead and vote against me?"


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

That was a crazy episode. That was an interesting scene where they were all in Pete's office looking into Lane's office and Ken and Pete got up on the couch and looked quickly and looked away, but Harry just stood on the couch looking appearing to be not as affected as everyone else.

It should be interesting next week to see if anyone finds out or Don admits that he wanted Harry to resign. Can't believe it is going to be the season finale. Seemed way too short of a season.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Does Joan's name become part of the firm's title now?

How old is Sally supposed to be?

Glen is still creepy but peeing in his locker is just wrong.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

I'd say no on the name. There's a difference between equity partner and named partner.


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

I'm predicting Sterling Cooper Draper Campbell to open next season.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> How old is Sally supposed to be?


11-12

As soon as she said she really didn't feel well, I knew what was up.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

DeDondeEs said:


> Can't believe it is going to be the season finale. Seemed way too short of a season.


I think I missed that next week is the finale. It was way to short a season.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

Also, not really related to the episode, but I thought those ads AMC was running due to the conflict they are having with Dish were lame. 

I am also annoyed by the way that announcer they have says "AMC's Mad Men." It sounds like he has really bad nasal congestion.


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## Casual (Jun 18, 2007)

I heard a rumor that both the Rolling Stones and Beatles were taxed over 75% of their earnings by the British Gov. when they first started. This was around the same time period that Mad Men is set in.


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## DrEvil (Oct 26, 2002)

Zevida said:


> I disagree. I don't think anyone in the office knows about Joan. Ken knows because he was involved - he was there was the Jaguar guy made the proposition. But I don't think he would have gossiped about it. His line was more general about what he's seen the partners have to do up to and including that.
> 
> I did like that he made sure Pete wouldn't sniff the Dow account!


I forgot about that meeting with the Jaguar Dealer. Ken was sitting next to him, wasn't he.

So what Joan did isn't common knowledge among the employees then.

I also liked how Ken insisted that Roger "force" him into the Dow account if they are able to get it. He really does want some cover from his father in law!


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

While it is sad that Lane killed himself, he was kind of a sad and pathetic character in general and I won't miss him. The scene with Joan realizing something was wrong then the young guys standing on his couch to see him was really well done.

I'm not very happy with Don and Megan. Every time Megan has a legitimate gripe against Don, he is able to deflect by saying "I had a bad day." At some point that doesn't become a fair excuse. When he got drunk with Joan, not calling about Sally coming, etc. 

I was disappointed we didn't follow-up with Peggy in this episode. I would not be surprised if we don't see her in the finale either, but I hope we do.


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

Zevida said:


> I was disappointed we didn't follow-up with Peggy in this episode. I would not be surprised if we don't see her in the finale either, but I hope we do.


I expect we will get a Peggy update next week.
Ken, maybe Don, will tell her about Lane.


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## avery (May 29, 2006)

Zevida said:


> 11-12
> 
> As soon as she said she really didn't feel well, I knew what was up.


 I did too! And really, Sally could simply have not been feeling well due to a dozen other reasons. As women, I suppose we were more tuned into the possibility.



Marco said:


> I'm predicting Sterling Cooper Draper Campbell to open next season.


I thought the same thing... barring some major turn of events which could leave their name as just _Sterling, Cooper, Draper_.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

avery said:


> I did too! And really, Sally could simply have not been feeling well due to a dozen other reasons. As women, I suppose we were more tuned into the possibility.


They were also being pretty heavy-handed with the struggle between being a child and being an adult. She acts like a baby to get out of the ski trip, then wants to act like a grown up with Megan. She makes a secret call to her "boyfriend" and gets dolled up for an outing. Then she gets uncomfortable when he brings up sex and reverts to being more childlike, claiming she doesn't like him. It was all about her difficult transition to being a grown woman, and the period starting at that moment was perfect, as was her reverting to a child and going home to her mom for comfort.


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

avery said:


> I thought the same thing... barring some major turn of events which could leave their name as just _Sterling, Cooper, Draper_.


Pete will be angling for his name on the door before the coroner's van is out of sight of the building.


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

Marco said:


> Pete will be angling for his name on the door before the coroner's van is out of sight of the building.


:up: So true.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Is it just me or does it seem that Glen is Matthew Weiner?


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

Marco said:


> Pete will be angling for his name on the door before the coroner's van is out of sight of the building.


When the down elevator's bell rings, I'll wager!


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## redrouteone (Jun 16, 2001)

I wonder what the "offical" story will be on Lane's death. Seeing as how they are concerned with image, I am going to go with heart attack.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

mwhip said:


> Is it just me or does it seem that Glen is Matthew Weiner?


Well, the actor is his son, so no.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

Zevida said:


> I was disappointed we didn't follow-up with Peggy in this episode. I would not be surprised if we don't see her in the finale either, but I hope we do.


I bet we don't see Peggy again until well into the next season.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

Casual said:


> I heard a rumor that both the Rolling Stones and Beatles were taxed over 75% of their earnings by the British Gov. when they first started. This was around the same time period that Mad Men is set in.


As the Beatles sang... 
"Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman"

That reflects a tax rate of 95%... not sure it was quite that high, but it was close to that.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

cmontyburns said:


> Well, the actor is his son, so no.


Well that explains a little more. I feel Glen is the type of Kid Weiner was at that age. Good with adults, private school and so on.


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

MScottC said:


> As the Beatles sang...
> "Let me tell you how it will be
> There's one for you, nineteen for me
> 'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman"
> ...


I have read that the Crown assessed taxes up to 83%, plus 15% unearned income plus capital gains. And Lane would likely have been subject to IRS taxes as well I think.

And some asked....yes, the Crown WOULD have put him in prison over unpaid taxes.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

cmontyburns said:


> Well, the actor is his son, so no.


Ooohhhh. I get it now. No wonder they keep bringing back the creepiest character on the show. Nepotism! And really, he's probably not creepy but just a terrible actor.


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## lpamelaa (May 3, 2004)

Can anyone post a reminder of the history between Ken Cosgrove and his father-in-law at Dow? I know there's some tension, but can't recall the details.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

lpamelaa said:


> Can anyone post a reminder of the history between Ken Cosgrove and his father-in-law at Dow? I know there's some tension, but can't recall the details.


I don't think there is an tension between them. The issue is that Ken does not want to risk his relationship by mixing business with personal life. I think his father-in-law feels the same way. Unlike Pete, who begged his wife to get his FIL's business, then dumped his FIL like a hot potato when it was convenient for him. Ken just doesn't want to risk the relationship with his wife and her father, so he will not help SCDP go after Dow.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Mikeyis4dcats said:


> I have read that the Crown assessed taxes up to 83%, plus 15% unearned income plus capital gains. And Lane would likely have been subject to IRS taxes as well I think.


Did the IRS give credit for foreign taxes paid in 1964?

Answering my own question, apparently yes. Second page, Part V, line 4a.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/f1040--1964.pdf

So, unless he would have owed more to the IRS absent the foreign tax credit than he owed to the UK, he wouldn't have to pay the IRS anything.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Mikeyis4dcats said:


> And some asked....yes, the Crown WOULD have put him in prison over unpaid taxes.


Immediately? He couldn't hire a lawyer and drag it out a couple of months? Plus, he's in New York. Was the Crown going to send James Bond after him?


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> I know Lane owed Britain's version of the IRS $7,500 but how much trouble was he really in? It's not like they were going to throw him in jail if he had paid the debt and whatever penalty off late.


The trouble was over the embezzlement, not the taxes.



> I was surprised neither Don nor Megan thought about hiring a cab to take Sally back to school. It's not like Don couldn't afford it.


(Glenn)

I think Don welcomed the escape of the drive.



john4200 said:


> I couldn't believe she would be so naive as to write a $6000 check without bothering to see if there was enough money in the checking account.


Lane had kept her 100% in the dark about their money troubles. Don wrote a check for a Jag without blinking. As far as Mrs.Price knew financially thru were on equal footing with the drapers.



Zevida said:


> I'm not very happy with Don and Megan. Every time Megan has a legitimate gripe against Don, he is able to deflect by saying "I had a bad day." At some point that doesn't become a fair excuse. When he got drunk with Joan, not calling about Sally coming, etc.


To be fair, Don had a couple of REALLY bad days this episode!

It should have been titled "Don Draper and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day"

He should probably move to Australia.


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## NJ_HB (Mar 21, 2007)

Here is another case of Don being self centered and a hipocrite, he's not even who he claims to be and he was in a similar position when Pete found out he was Dick and yet Don was given a break by Cooper.
He tells Lane he can no longer trust him and even though Lane begs for forgiveness and points out all the things he did for the company and how things are going to suck for him, Don still kills him off.
When Don's younger bother shows up (threatening Don's fake world) and wants to be a part of his life Don treated him like garbage to the point where the kid just kills himself.
Don was also responsible for 'killing' off his marriage (although many of you will disagree) and for 'killing' Peggy's career at SCDP.

Don could have saved all of the above if he so desired but chose not to.

[ducking for cover]


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> I know Lane owed Britain's version of the IRS $7,500 but how much trouble was he really in? It's not like they were going to throw him in jail if he had paid the debt and whatever penalty off late.
> 
> It was pretty crappy of Lane to kill himself in the office. Assuming he had life insurance, he should have driven into a wall or off a cliff. Anything but obvious suicide. Now his wife gets nothing.
> 
> I was surprised neither Don nor Megan thought about hiring a cab to take Sally back to school. It's not like Don couldn't afford it.


Depends on the policy (and at the time in the 60's at least)

My personal life insurance, after 2 years, suicide pays out fully to my wife.


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

NJ_HB said:


> He tells Lane he can no longer trust him and even though Lane begs for forgiveness and points out all the things he did for the company and how things are going to suck for him, Don still kills him off.


No.

Remember that Bert Cooper already knows about the check. This is not something that is just going to go away.

On top of that, your firm's CFO is forging checks and embezzling? That's not something you can just ignore. What if word gets out to the employees, or to clients, or to the competition ffs?

Don could have called the cops then and there. He let Lane off easy.


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

NJ_HB said:


> Here is another case of Don being self centered and a hipocrite, he's not even who he claims to be and he was in a similar position when Pete found out he was Dick and yet Don was given a break by Cooper.
> He tells Lane he can no longer trust him and even though Lane begs for forgiveness and points out all the things he did for the company and how things are going to suck for him, Don still kills him off.
> When Don's younger bother shows up (threatening Don's fake world) and wants to be a part of his life Don treated him like garbage to the point where the kid just kills himself.
> Don was also responsible for 'killing' off his marriage (although many of you will disagree) and for 'killing' Peggy's career at SCDP.
> ...


As far as the items from this season go, you're exactly right - the theme for this season was "every man for himself."


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## NJ_HB (Mar 21, 2007)

Marco said:


> No.
> 
> Remember that Bert Cooper already knows about the check. This is not something that is just going to go away.
> 
> ...


I agree with you and what you say applies equally to Don as well, how would the firms clients/staff react if they found out that Don assumed another's indentity? Lane's explanation actually makes more sense than Don's.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

Robin said:


> The trouble was over the embezzlement, not the taxes.


The trouble with SCDP was the embezzlement, but the taxes are what lead to that. 


Robin said:


> (Glenn)
> 
> I think Don welcomed the escape of the drive.


Sally could have taken a cab to school on Monday instead of being left alone.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Robin said:


> (Glenn)
> 
> I think Don welcomed the escape of the drive.


I thought cheesesteak meant - why didn't they send Sally back in a cab on monday morning, instead of her being off of school and alone all day.

But yes, with Glen, I think Don did welcome the escape of the drive.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Bryanmc said:


> The trouble with SCDP was the embezzlement, but the taxes are what lead to that.
> 
> Sally could have taken a cab to school on Monday instead of being left alone.


*slaps head*

Sorry.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Anyone know how partnerships like that work? Will Lane's wife get percentage for a while or maybe even longer? Does the percentage change or is there a buy out?


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

mwhip said:


> Anyone know how partnerships like that work? Will Lane's wife get percentage for a while or maybe even longer? Does the percentage change or is there a buy out?


It's rather common, at least these days, for the company to carry life insurance sufficient to buy out a partner's stake in case they die, just to avoid situations like this.


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## Satchel (Dec 8, 2001)

All Lane had to do was ask Don or the other partners..."Hey guys, I'm getting screwed in England with taxes and I need help. You guys all cashed out when we started this business and I did not."

His argument to Don after the fact would have made a decent request for help.

I'm betting they'd have at least loaned him the money.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

They would have, no doubt. He was to proud to ask.


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

NJ_HB said:


> I agree with you and what you say applies equally to Don as well, how would the firms clients/staff react if they found out that Don assumed another's identity? Lane's explanation actually makes more sense than Don's.


And yet Don's creative skills are much more irreplaceable, and his presence is bound up with the firm's brand. It very much served the other partners' interests to keep Don. Not so for Lane.


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

Robin said:


> They would have, no doubt. He was too proud *British* to ask.


Fixed that for ya.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

Of course they would have, Don's covering the check himself just to protect Lane from embarrassment. Or at least that was his plan, who knows if Don will let the others know the reason for Lane's departure (from the firm and the world).


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## NJ_HB (Mar 21, 2007)

Marco said:


> And yet Don's creative skills are much more irreplaceable, and his presence is bound up with the firm's brand. It very much served the other partners' interests to keep Don. Not so for Lane.


Point taken.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

I'm surprised Cooper hasn't put two and two together.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Zevida said:


> I disagree. I don't think anyone in the office knows about Joan. Ken knows because he was involved - he was there was the Jaguar guy made the proposition. But I don't think he would have gossiped about it. His line was more general about what he's seen the partners have to do up to and including that.
> 
> I did like that he made sure Pete wouldn't sniff the Dow account!


Ken was disgusted that Pete even told Joan what the Jag guy had requested. Glad he insisted Pete be left out of any Dow deal!


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## rifleman69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Robin said:


> I'm surprised Cooper hasn't put two and two together.


Pretty sure he figured it out after finding Lane dead, it's also why he just went to Don only to confront him about the check instead of taking it to someone else and asking their thoughts about it.


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

Marco said:


> Fixed that for ya.


Yes, quite.


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

tiams said:


> Ken was disgusted that Pete even told Joan what the Jag guy had requested. Glad he insisted Pete be left out of any Dow deal!


I think Ken hated Pete plenty even before that.

Oh, and I'd almost forgotten about Roger, and "When a man hates another man very very much ...". He was more than happy to cut Pete out of Dow.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Bryanmc said:


> The trouble with SCDP was the embezzlement, but the taxes are what lead to that.
> 
> Sally could have taken a cab to school on Monday instead of being left alone.


Yes, that's what I meant.


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

rifleman69 said:


> Pretty sure he figured it out after finding Lane dead, it's also why he just went to Don only to confront him about the check instead of taking it to someone else and asking their thoughts about it.


I think he went to Don first because Don's signature was on the check. He was asking Don what was going on, referencing the check that he had supposedly signed.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

jakerock said:


> I think he went to Don first because Don's signature was on the check. He was asking Don what was going on, referencing the check that he had supposedly signed.


I also think a point to be made was that Don could easily take ownership of the check the way Bert accused him of doing (when in reality he hadn't) and just had Cooper snark at him for being "good cop" and not clearing it with the other partners.

Bert had already accused Don of doing this, so that could have been the end and Don gets the slap on the wrist from Bert.

I do think Bert will put 2 and 2 together with the check and Lane, but I'm not sure they'll take it anywhere. They have been very good about having Bert appear the doddering old fool, but actually being very on the ball.


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## mm2margaret (Dec 7, 2010)

Marco said:


> I think Ken hated Pete plenty even before that.
> 
> Oh, and I'd almost forgotten about Roger, and "When a man hates another man very very much ...". He was more than happy to cut Pete out of Dow.


Who *doesn't* hate Pete??


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I have a discussion topic!

If Don stays faithful in the final episode of the season, that will mark the first season that Don has not strayed from his primary relationship.

Seasons 1-3: Cheated on Betty with everyone.
Season 4: Established a relationship with the researcher lady, cheated on her with two secretaries. 
Season 5: Married to Megan, so far faithful.

Does it ring true that Don would stay faithful to Megan? What's changed about his character? Does their marriage satisfy him?

I do not think he is satisfied with their marriage - he was embarassed by the birthday dance, disappointed that she left SCDP, annoyed that she puts her acting "career" on equal level with his career, and shows no respect or consideration for her as a partner. So why have they written him as the faithful husband when it is so against his character to be so? What's different about Megan or this season?


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

mm2margaret said:


> Who *doesn't* hate Pete??


I don't hate Pete!

I mean, I do, but I don't. He's a terrible person. But he's fascinating to watch. I love him on this show. I would not want to know him in real life!


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

What I think is different about Megan, and Don to some degree, is that they are not communicating to each other. They get upset when the other springs 'surprises'. Megan and her trip to Boston. I mean, why wasn't that mentioned before? "hey honey, you know some shows will rehearse in boston or chicago or ontario until they come back to New York.". Or even "hey honey, how would you feel about me going to boston? It would just be a few weeks and I can come home and visit or you can come up there." And other stuff. Don not calling her about him being late. Well, did he used to call Betty? or just come home late? And maybe he liked having her in the office because then he didn't need to call her so much. She was there and saw how bad a day or how busy a day he was having.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

What about the pact Ken had with Peggy?


----------



## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

betts4 said:


> What about the pact Ken had with Peggy?


I don't think we've heard the last of that.


----------



## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Zevida said:


> I have a discussion topic!
> 
> If Don stays faithful in the final episode of the season, that will mark the first season that Don has not strayed from his primary relationship.
> 
> ...


It's hard to say what the writers will do but Megan is the most emotionally healthy relationship he has had that I can see. She gets right to the meat of all their conflicts immediately and I believe he is learning from it. As far I can see she is not manipulating him or playing games.

The Boston thing was not an immediate thing that was known when she changed careers. She was initially auditioning and that meant it could be all sorts of jobs and situations. Had it been an existing play there might not be a Boston. However at a certain point she auditioned for a new play and they told her it would be tech'd in Boston and she told Don pretty quickly about it.
Yes its true she did not say Hey Don I want to change careers and do Broadway and you its possible one of the jobs someday might have to go out of NYC to flush out the job.

I think Don is learning emotionally and I think he appreciates Megan keeping it real versus Betty who still likes to play games. Megan catches on to that pretty quickly and highlights it.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

I think the difference between Megan and Betty is that Megan knows the real Don. Betty knew the facade. Don was playing a role with Betty, therefore he was unhappy, therefore he cheated on her with women he could be himself with.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

betts4 said:


> What about the pact Ken had with Peggy?





Marco said:


> I don't think we've heard the last of that.


I agree, they've been good about keeping that in the fore front this year, we will see that revisited IMO. Ken has also been awesome this year, loved his actions in this episode.


----------



## Wheens (Jan 1, 2003)

betts4 said:


> What about the pact Ken had with Peggy?


What pact? I suffer from early stage CRS, so I probably have forgotten.


----------



## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

Wheens said:


> What pact? I suffer from early stage CRS, so I probably have forgotten.


If one leaves they take the other with him/her.


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Peggy made it pretty clear she felt the pact was childish and stupid and then she left without him. I think the pact went up in flames is no more.


----------



## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

Just a point I'd like to make...I like how Megan never badmouths Betty-like when Sally calls her a fake, she says "You know that's not true..."

Betty, on the other hand-badmouths Megan every chance she gets....

Anyway-I totally agree that it was so sweet to see Betty and Sally have a real moment...Betty even called Sally "beautiful" which - gosh, how long has it been since that happened?


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

mwhip said:


> Anyone know how partnerships like that work? Will Lane's wife get percentage for a while or maybe even longer? Does the percentage change or is there a buy out?





kaszeta said:


> It's rather common, at least these days, for the company to carry life insurance sufficient to buy out a partner's stake in case they die, just to avoid situations like this.


I think most partnership shares are willable so Lane's wife would receive it as part of his estate.

Usually their is a buy out clause as kaszeta said so most likely she would be bought out by the company - or at least the company would have first rights to buy it back.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Oh, Lane.... 

So sad. I liked the character. One of the more decent people at SCDP. (Ken and his hair is the most decent guy, I think)


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Cainebj said:


> I think most partnership shares are willable so Lane's wife would receive it as part of his estate.
> 
> Usually their is a buy out clause as kaszeta said so most likely she would be bought out by the company - or at least the company would have first rights to buy it back.


That's the way I understand it, too. The company would have the right to buy back the shares and the spouse would get cash assuming that's what happened.

Speaking of partnership stuff, in the prior episode, I couldn't get past the partners so willingly giving Joan 5%. I know part of the issue was that they didn't want to raise the cash, but giving her 5% dilutes their shares. The Jaguar account didn't seem worth doing that for, especially when Don was so sure he could get the business anyway. But on the other hand, it made for a more entertaining show.

But of course now they will likely get Lane's shares back, assuming they can come up with the cash to buy them. Or, if Joan decides to keep up what she did last week, she can pick up a some more shares.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Regina said:


> ... it was so sweet to see Betty and Sally have a real moment...Betty even called Sally "beautiful" which - gosh, how long has it been since that happened?


Um.....never?

This whole ep was ruined for me by one of the news apps Monday that headlined "Lane goes out with a bang...." then, first paragraph saying "Don't read any further if you haven't seen the episode yet..." Really?! REALLY?!?!?

Talk about jerks....


----------



## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Yes, it was very difficult to avoid spoilers about this one. I get the episodes on iTunes and they are not available until after midnight usually, so I never get to watch until Monday night. Most of the stories about the show on Monday were headlined something like "...last night's shocking Mad Men" or "...heartbreaking Mad Men", so it was obvious something big had happened. And those stories were typically accompanied by another one summarizing the conference call Jared Harris did with the press ("Jared Harris on Last Night's Shocking Mad Men"), so it was not hard to guess what happened. There was no way to avoid having it spoiled without staying off the internet entirely for 24 hours.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

I watched it a day late, at least, and saw no spoilers.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

cmontyburns said:


> Yes, it was very difficult to avoid spoilers about this one. I get the episodes on iTunes and they are not available until after midnight usually, so I never get to watch until Monday night. Most of the stories about the show on Monday were headlined something like "...last night's shocking Mad Men" or "...heartbreaking Mad Men", so it was obvious something big had happened. And those stories were typically accompanied by another one summarizing the conference call Jared Harris did with the press ("Jared Harris on Last Night's Shocking Mad Men"), so it was not hard to guess what happened. There was no way to avoid having it spoiled without staying off the internet entirely for 24 hours.


I dunno. I watched it last night and it was a surprise to me. I'm on the internet all day long. I just haven't read any entertainment news. I was too busy the last couple of days.

That being said, my first thought was "how ironic that Don is dismissing Lane for forging his signature when Don's entire persona is a forgery". And having said that, I felt really _really_ bad for him when it was obvious by his facial expression that he realized he had pushed Lane to this. Obviously it's not his fault, he couldn't have known but the guilt all over his face, especially after the resignation letter, made me feel for him. After his brother committing suicide, this might just push Don over the edge and we go back to the old Don next season. I wouldn't be shocked if the season finale ended with him cheating on Megan.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Robin said:


> I watched it a day late, at least, and saw no spoilers.


Same here, it's easy, just don't read the Slate articles on it 

I almost never get spoiled on shows, doesn't seem that hard. Only time it happens is in person, almost never online


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Spoilers don't bother me. I guess I'm abnormal.


----------



## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> This whole ep was ruined for me by one of the news apps Monday that headlined "Lane goes out with a bang...." then, first paragraph saying "Don't read any further if you haven't seen the episode yet..." Really?! REALLY?!?!?
> 
> Talk about jerks....


Same here. I came across two headlines that gave away that Lane died.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Really great episode. Maybe I'm in the minority but I have found this to be a stellar season and one full of a lot of fun/interesting social commentary. Was I the only one surprised that it was Cooper, of all people, who actually noticed the check? Will Joan be able to take care of the books? I can't remember whose job that was before Lane came into the picture...

Count me in the minority who was actually glad for those dish network nags. If not for those I would have had no idea that Dish randomly reassigned the channel and thus I needed to set up a new season pass on this random new channel. I would certainly have missed Mad Men next week without that nag. I also am curious how Dish can think their line about AMC having low ratings, thus explaining the move of channel and cut-off of the network entirely, is their best excuse.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Malcontent said:


> Same here. I came across two headlines that gave away that Lane died.


Yeah, I backtracked and found it was an article on the USA iPhone app, but it was on their front page as well as the entertainment (or "Life" section as they call it). VERY irritating. The headline said _*"For 'Mad Men' and Harris, a shocking exit" *_and the first sentence, visible again on their home page, BEFORE it mentioned spoilers, said _*"The actor says he's happy his character gets to leave the show 'with a bang instead of....'"*_


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> ... I also am curious how Dish can think their line about AMC having low ratings, thus explaining the move of channel and cut-off of the network entirely, is their best excuse.


It may not be their best excuse, but it's true -- this season's Mad Men ratings have sucked...


----------



## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

I had seen that something bad happened but didn't know what going into the episode. I kept hoping it would be Betty taking a header into a tree on the ski slopes. Based on the lack of screen time she's had this season, maybe the writers are as tired of her as I am.


----------



## lpamelaa (May 3, 2004)

Style recap and analysis:

http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2012/06/mad-style-commissions-and-fees.html


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> Yeah, I backtracked and found it was an article on the USA iPhone app, but it was on their front page as well as the entertainment (or "Life" section as they call it). VERY irritating. The headline said _*"For 'Mad Men' and Harris, a shocking exit" *_and the first sentence, visible again on their home page, BEFORE it mentioned spoilers, said _*"The actor says he's happy his character gets to leave the show 'with a bang instead of....'"*_


Reading USA Today would be problem numero uno.


----------



## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> It may not be their best excuse, but it's true -- this season's Mad Men ratings have sucked...


They've had their highest ratings this year.


----------



## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

WhiskeyTango said:


> I had seen that something bad happened but didn't know what going into the episode. I kept hoping it would be Betty taking a header into a tree on the ski slopes. Based on the lack of screen time she's had this season, maybe the writers are as tired of her as I am.


Betty is a childish spiteful *****, but I actually like having her around. Sally is turning into a Betty Mini-me, which should also provide nice future tensions, but it was touching that when Sally had her first visitor, she ran home to her mother, with a nice hug that seemed to surprise Betty.


----------



## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

Zevida said:


> Peggy made it pretty clear she felt the pact was childish and stupid and then she left without him. I think the pact went up in flames is no more.


I think Peggy was just really pissed at the time, (IIRC Don had just thrown the money at her) and that the pact will indeed come up again.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> Spoilers don't bother me. I guess I'm abnormal.


Spoilers don't scare me. I usually forget what they were and most of the time they don't go into the detail of the acting and events leading up to or after the spoiler.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

WhiskeyTango said:


> They've had their highest ratings this year.


Also, isn't the Walking Dead pretty highly rated? I assume other shows as well. Certainly AMC has to have higher ratings than most the 300+ channels that weren't bumped arbitrarily to a higher channel #.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

I agree we haven't heard the end of the pact. They've brought it up too many times this season for it to just fizzle.


----------



## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

TAsunder said:


> Also, isn't the Walking Dead pretty highly rated? I assume other shows as well. Certainly AMC has to have higher ratings than most the 300+ channels that weren't bumped arbitrarily to a higher channel #.


The Walking Dead gets higher ratings than most network shows.


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Mr. Soze said:


> I think Peggy was just really pissed at the time, (IIRC Don had just thrown the money at her) and that the pact will indeed come up again.


The pact was that if one leaves, they both leave. Peggy left without a glance back or a consideration to Ken. And Ken is angling for his future at the company, promising not to get in the way of Dow and getting a guarantee he'll be on the account.

The pact is over! It might get briefly mentioned if we have a Peggy/Ken scene and he gives her a dig, but there's no more pact.


----------



## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

Zevida said:


> The pact was that if one leaves, they both leave. Peggy left without a glance back or a consideration to Ken. And Ken is angling for his future at the company, promising not to get in the way of Dow and getting a guarantee he'll be on the account.
> 
> The pact is over! It might get briefly mentioned if we have a Peggy/Ken scene and he gives her a dig, but there's no more pact.


The usual, Randolph? (It helps if you have seen "Trading Places" )


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

I avoid spoilers like the plague, but was anyone really surprised Lane committed suicide? It has been telegraphed all season and I was completely expecting it either this episode or next.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

WhiskeyTango said:


> They've had their highest ratings this year.


Negative from what I read last week....they said it's the lowest they've been since S3, at least for "Christmas Waltz"...
Wiki info...


----------



## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

How Pete gets his name on the door:

The check is out there. The partners will all come to know that Lane paid himself $7500 without permission. It's totally in character for Pete to want to chase down the widow Pryce and get that money back!

The other partners, starting with Don, will accede to Pete's demand to be a name partner in exchange for Pete giving up his demand to go after Mrs. Pryce for the $7500.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> Negative from what I read last week....they said it's the lowest they've been since S3, at least for "Christmas Waltz"...
> Wiki info...


I see the opposite based on TV by the numbers. The numbers seem as good or better than prior seasons. This season marks the first time they hit 1.0 for adults 18-49 and they did it for many episodes in a row. The ratings have fallen a bit over the past few weeks but still are in the same range as the ~10 episodes I checked from last season.


----------



## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> Negative from what I read last week....they said it's the lowest they've been since S3, at least for "Christmas Waltz"...
> Wiki info...


It was down for 2 weeks (0.6 which is also hit twice in the *4th* season) but bounced back up to a 0.8 this past week which equaled the finale from last year. Overall the numbers have been higher.


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Marco said:


> How Pete gets his name on the door:
> 
> The check is out there. The partners will all come to know that Lane paid himself $7500 without permission. It's totally in character for Pete to want to chase down the widow Pryce and get that money back!
> 
> The other partners, starting with Don, will accede to Pete's demand to be a name partner in exchange for Pete giving up his demand to go after Mrs. Pryce for the $7500.


Or, Pete will convince Joan to have sexual relations with Mrs. Pryce to get the money back. He becomes a named partner, Joan gets another 5% of the firm, and Mrs. Pryce gets to "roam those hillsides." It's win-win-win.


----------



## efilippi (Jul 24, 2001)

Talk about the Peggy pact makes me wonder whether we will see her again. I think she is gone, not in the same way as Lane, of course, but just as abruptly.


----------



## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

Marco said:


> How Pete gets his name on the door:
> 
> The check is out there. The partners will all come to know that Lane paid himself $7500 without permission. It's totally in character for Pete to want to chase down the widow Pryce and get that money back!
> 
> The other partners, starting with Don, will accede to Pete's demand to be a name partner in exchange for Pete giving up his demand to go after Mrs. Pryce for the $7500.


That would be irredeemably dooshy, even for Pete.


----------



## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

Mr. Soze said:


> That would be irredeemably dooshy, even for Pete.


Glad you're on board with me!


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Zevida said:


> The pact was that if one leaves, they both leave. Peggy left without a glance back or a consideration to Ken. And Ken is angling for his future at the company, promising not to get in the way of Dow and getting a guarantee he'll be on the account.
> 
> The pact is over! It might get briefly mentioned if we have a Peggy/Ken scene and he gives her a dig, but there's no more pact.





efilippi said:


> Talk about the Peggy pact makes me wonder whether we will see her again. I think she is gone, not in the same way as Lane, of course, but just as abruptly.


I think the pact is over, too. Peggy's comment about it being "silly" or "stupid" or whatever she said was essentially saying it's over. And she left without any regard for the pact or Ken. I think part of the point of that episode was to show that Peggy was independent and didn't need Don, Ken or anyone else at SCDP. And, as Zevida mentioned, it's probably in Ken's best interest to stay, anyway.

If I had to bet, I'd say it's more likely that Peggy is gone than that we'll see her at the new firm next season. Or maybe this will all end with Don coming to her (after she's become a partner at the new place) and asking for a job after Don and/or SCDP goes down in flames.


----------



## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

Marco said:


> Glad you're on board with me!


Hmm. The guy who banged his train-pal's wife, whored out Joan, letched after a high school girl, stole mail intended for someone else then tried blackmail that someone, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. What's hounding a broke, grieving widow after all that?


----------



## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

Jared Harris may have let something slip with regards to Peggy's status.



Spoiler



Harris said he didn't get a going-away party from the cast and crew because so many actors were leaving the show.

"Actors are always ending jobs." he told the paper. "It isn't a big deal in that sense. . . . Elisabeth [Moss] left the episode before, and she'd been there since the beginning."


----------



## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

Mr. Soze said:


> Hmm. The guy who banged his train-pal's wife, whored out Joan, letched after a high school girl, stole mail intended for someone else then tried blackmail that someone, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. What's hounding a broke, grieving widow after all that?


You left out sexually harassing 20 year old Peggy Olson then impregnating her, and possibly statutory-raping a German au pair!


----------



## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

What a stupid article:



> Hands off Sally
> By LINDA STASI
> 
> Last Updated: 10:29 AM, June 6, 2012
> ...


----------



## lpamelaa (May 3, 2004)

You know...we've all been so focused on the ramifications of Lane's $7500 embezzlement that we haven't looked at the larger thread that will be unraveled. He extended SCDP's credit line by $50k to fund those Christmas bonuses. What's going to happen when that's uncovered? Longterm harm to their business??


----------



## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

Marco said:


> You left out sexually harassing 20 year old Peggy Olson then impregnating her, and possibly statutory-raping a German au pair!


Now you're just piling on. Leave Pete alone!!!!!!!


----------



## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

WhiskeyTango said:


> What a stupid article:


Is this writer saying Child Protective services for the actor or the character?
He does know that she never gets to see the other side of things in her scenes right.

For example her underpants which was filmed separately or the BJ scene which was also filmed separately.


----------



## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

lpamelaa said:


> You know...we've all been so focused on the ramifications of Lane's $7500 embezzlement that we haven't looked at the larger thread that will be unraveled. He extended SCDP's credit line by $50k to fund those Christmas bonuses. What's going to happen when that's uncovered? Longterm harm to their business??


Probably not. Extending it and drawing it down are two different things. Apart from the money Lane took, and maybe the staff bonuses which we don't know if SCDP can afford or not, the rest of the line seems available untouched.


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

zalusky said:


> Is this writer saying Child Protective services for the actor or the character?
> He does know that she never gets to see the other side of things in her scenes right.
> 
> For example her underpants which was filmed separately or the BJ scene which was also filmed separately.


I'd agree that the writer was glossing over some facts to sensationalize the story, but at the same time I agree that the scenes mentioned in the article were largely unnecessary and seemed to be done at the kid's expense. I always wonder about parents who put their kids in roles like this. To me, if you wouldn't let your kid watch the show/movie, they shouldn't be acting in it. These parents might be OK with letting the kid watch the show, but I think it's a valid concern for those who aren't OK with that.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

WhiskeyTango said:


> Jared Harris may have let something slip with regards to Peggy's status.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wouldn't bother me a bit...


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

tivoboyjr said:


> I'd agree that the writer was glossing over some facts to sensationalize the story, but at the same time I agree that the scenes mentioned in the article were largely unnecessary ...


How do you figure they were "largely unnecessary"? They clearly and accurately depict the natural age progressing of a girl (perhaps with the exception of the BJ....)


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

zalusky said:


> He does know that she never gets to see the other side of things in her scenes right.
> 
> For example her underpants which was filmed separately or the BJ scene which was also filmed separately.


What about the scene when she was asked to masturbate? There was no "other side". 
The underpants thing didn't really bother me because there is nothing sexual about that and the 12 year old actress knows what it's like to have her period.


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> How do you figure they were "largely unnecessary"? They clearly and accurately depict the natural age progressing of a girl (perhaps with the exception of the BJ....)


I'm just agreeing with the author of the article that the scenes could've been handled differently. They could've dealt with Sally getting her period without showing the bloody undies, they could've had someone else walk in during the BJ scene, etc. If that were my kid, I'd feel like she was being exploited just a little.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> How do you figure they were "largely unnecessary"? They clearly and accurately depict the natural age progressing of a girl (perhaps with the exception of the BJ....)


An 11 year old masturbating and a 12 year old witnessing oral sex is NOT "natural age progressing".


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

tiams said:


> An 11 year old masturbating and a 12 year old witnessing oral sex is NOT "natural age progressing".


The former absolutely is.


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

tiams said:


> What about the scene when she was asked to masturbate? There was no "other side".


We never saw her hand further than a few inches above her thigh, and the rest of it was just looking intently at the TV. It was so slight that a bunch of posters here didn't even catch on to what she was supposed to be doing.


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

WhiskeyTango said:


> Jared Harris may have let something slip with regards to Peggy's status.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This would really disappoint me because



Spoiler



In many ways the series has been as much about Peggy as about Don. She's definitely been the #2 character and she is pivotal in representing the struggle of women in the workplace during that era as well as playing the contrast to the other female characters like Betty (housewife), Joan (uses sex to get ahead) and Megan (young trophy wife). Without Peggy, we lose a big part of the core of the series.

They could feel that by going out on her own successfully to a job with a better title and pay that they've ended her story; but it would be disappointing to not have her in the show. They would need to bring in another female character to fill that void.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Robin said:


> The former absolutely is.


I disagree.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Robin said:


> The former absolutely is.


Exactly, and I already said "...with the exception of the BJ"....


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

tiams said:


> I disagree.


That doesn't change the fact that you're wrong...


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

tiams said:


> An 11 year old masturbating and a 12 year old witnessing oral sex is NOT "natural age progressing".





Robin said:


> The former absolutely is.





tiams said:


> I disagree.


Wait. I thought tiams was a guy.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

photoshopgrl said:


> Wait. I thought tiams was a guy.


nope.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

tiams said:


> nope.


Well hell! Learn something new everyday!


----------



## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Mr. Soze said:


> Hmm. The guy who banged his train-pal's wife, whored out Joan, letched after a high school girl, stole mail intended for someone else then tried blackmail that someone, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. What's hounding a broke, grieving widow after all that?


Don't forget impregnating Peggy on the eve of his wedding.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

tiams said:


> An 11 year old masturbating and a 12 year old witnessing oral sex is NOT "natural age progressing".


Yes to the first, no to the second.


----------



## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

Malcontent said:


> Same here. I came across two headlines that gave away that Lane died.


yeah, I was avoiding anything, then MSN throws a headline about it on their homepage.


----------



## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

Finally got to watch this last night when my wife got home. I take back my "best ep. of the season" comment for last week and would like to apply it here instead. Really good hour of TV.

I also got spoiled by a headline, but it wasn't a big deal. Anyone who's watched this season knew it was coming. We just didn't know when. It had to be this week or next week.


----------



## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

Anybody else want to speculate on events in the finale?

Does the firm get Dow's business?
Does Peggy return somehow?
Does the firm's life insurance refuse to pay out on Lane?
Does the story of Lane's death become generally known?


----------



## rifleman69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Marco said:


> Anybody else want to speculate on events in the finale?
> 
> Does the firm get Dow's business?
> Does Peggy return somehow?
> ...


Yes
No
Yes
I imagine Don keeps that between himself and possibly Cooper.


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

rifleman69 said:


> Yes
> No
> Yes
> I imagine Don keeps that between himself and possibly Cooper.


it has been confirmed that the life insurance was valid for suicide after 2 or 3 years. The policy has been in effect longer. It will pay.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

The insurance policy won't pay out because he resigned before he died and was no longer part of the firm. 

Don won't tell anyone about Lane's embezzlement. He would not sully his name like that post death.


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## Queue (Apr 7, 2009)

So what's up with Jared Harris,


Spoiler



he got killed off on Mad Men and Fringe.


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## rifleman69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Mikeyis4dcats said:


> it has been confirmed that the life insurance was valid for suicide after 2 or 3 years. The policy has been in effect longer. It will pay.


Lane resigned...life insurance doesn't pay.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Is the life insurance story really a story?


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

jsmeeker said:


> Is the life insurance story really a story?


The partners might hide his resignation.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Zevida said:


> The insurance policy won't pay out because he resigned before he died and was no longer part of the firm.


He resigned. He didn't get bought out (yet). He was still an equity share holder.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Zevida said:


> The insurance policy won't pay out because he resigned before he died and was no longer part of the firm....


A resignation has the be ACCEPTED to be official. It wasn't....it'll pay.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

We obviously have a number of non-life insurance professionals commenting. Once in effect if there was no fraud involved in the application (no lies, all facts disclosed to underwriting and accepted) and the policy is over two years old, it must pay. The insurance contract is between the owner (who is not necessarily the insured and in this case is the ad agency) and the insurance company. The owner has the right to name and change the benefiiciary and even the person insured under some circumstances but usually subject to re-underwriting.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I still don't understand why getting or not getting the life insurance payment would be a major plot point in the show.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

jsmeeker said:


> I still don't understand why getting or not getting the life insurance payment would be a major plot point in the show.


One character (Pete) made a specific reference to the company's insurance policy and it's suicide clause. Another character then commits suicide. Throughout the show there have been many references to death and suicide both subtle and overt. So the writers have made it a plot point. There will be an issue over whether Lane's wife will collect.

Or were you saying you don't understand why the writers chose suicide as a running theme?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

tiams said:


> One character (Pete) made a specific reference to the company's insurance policy and it's suicide clause. Another character then commits suicide. Throughout the show there have been many references to death and suicide both subtle and overt. So the writers have made it a plot point. There will be an issue over whether Lane's wife will collect.
> 
> Or were you saying you don't understand why the writers chose suicide as a running theme?


I recall the reference Pete made. I get the suicide part. I just don't get why an insurance payment is a huge deal. Does the payment go to the firm or the wife ? If to the wife, who cares. If to SCDP, does it save them financially after Lane got an extra $50,000 ?

I guess I really don't care so much about this plot point and wonder why others make it an issue. I'm more interested in Peggy and where she is and how SCDP grows without P (insurance or not)


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Mr. Soze said:


> Probably not. Extending it and drawing it down are two different things. Apart from the money Lane took, and maybe the staff bonuses which we don't know if SCDP can afford or not, the rest of the line seems available untouched.


I don't think there's anything left untouched. Lane told the partners he found an extra $50k. He didn't tell them it was from their line of credit. They originally intended to pay themselves bonuses, but then the Mohawk strike happened and the Jaguar opportunity came up and so the partners agreed to forego their bonuses so that the firm could still pay bonuses to everyone else and have the operating funds they needed to cover the lost income from Mohawk and the increased expense of Jaguar.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

They won Jaguar. So, they should start to see money from that. Though I do recall there were conversations about different fee structures for that deal? Or at leas the possibility of it. Mohwak strike can't last forever, right? I guess they will be back to normal there (of course, I know Mohwak eventually goes away or gets bought up. But don't know when)


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Zevida said:


> The insurance policy won't pay out because he resigned before he died and was no longer part of the firm.


The policy is a legal contract. If the terms are met, it has to pay out. The insurance coverage wouldn't be lost simply because he's no longer employed at the firm. It might (unlikely) mean that the beneficiary has to change, but the insurance company doesn't get out of paying just because he resigned.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> Though I do recall there were conversations about different fee structures for that deal? Or at leas the possibility of it.


Hence the episode, and thread, title.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> The policy is a legal contract. If the terms are met, it has to pay out. The insurance coverage wouldn't be lost simply because he's no longer employed at the firm. It might (unlikely) mean that the beneficiary has to change, but the insurance company doesn't get out of paying just because he resigned.


Without knowing the terms of the contact, it's hard to say. I am no insurance expert. But I have to think a policy for the benefit of the firm is contingent on the person being an active partner. If he is not a partner/employee, they have no insurable interest. If he resigned, moved back to London, then six weeks later he died, there would be no benefits. The events happened so close together, it's fuzzy.

I'm with smeek in that I hope they don't spend a lot of time fussing over insurance or any of the details of Lane's death. I'd like them to move on.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

I really hope next season we get more of the ad side of things. Maybe Don and Peggy can go head to head for several accounts. That would be fantastic.


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## wouldworker (Sep 7, 2004)

tiams said:


> One character (Pete) made a specific reference to the company's insurance policy and it's suicide clause. Another character then commits suicide. Throughout the show there have been many references to death and suicide both subtle and overt. So the writers have made it a plot point. There will be an issue over whether Lane's wife will collect.


All the stuff about Pete's insurance policy was to provide a reason for Pete to go to that guy's house so he could get it on with his wife. I'm with smeek - whether or not Lane's insurance policy pays out isn't interesting and won't be a major plot point. It might rate a mention but it won't be a story line.


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## rifleman69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Zevida said:


> Without knowing the terms of the contact, it's hard to say. I am no insurance expert. But I have to think a policy for the benefit of the firm is contingent on the person being an active partner. If he is not a partner/employee, they have no insurable interest. If he resigned, moved back to London, then six weeks later he died, there would be no benefits.


This. And it should be a small but important plot point, but one that is quickly forgotten about after the last episode of the season.


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## rifleman69 (Jan 6, 2005)

wouldworker said:


> All the stuff about Pete's insurance policy was to provide a reason for Pete to go to that guy's house so he could get it on with his wife. I'm with smeek - whether or not Lane's insurance policy pays out isn't interesting and won't be a major plot point. It might rate a mention but it won't be a story line.


It's not a major plot point? Well sure it's not the underlying message/themse but it does have quite a bit to do with the company's future.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Marco said:


> Anybody else want to speculate on events in the finale?
> 
> Does the firm get Dow's business?
> Does Peggy return somehow?
> ...


My prediction for the season finale : Don cheats on Megan!


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

Zevida said:


> Without knowing the terms of the contact, it's hard to say. I am no insurance expert. But I have to think a policy for the benefit of the firm is contingent on the person being an active partner. If he is not a partner/employee, they have no insurable interest. If he resigned, moved back to London, then six weeks later he died, there would be no benefits. The events happened so close together, it's fuzzy.


I am an insurance professional and you are wrong. Insurable interest is only necessary when the policy is issued. Policies are often maintained for the benefit of the business long after an employee leaves and carried on the books as an asset.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Jon J said:


> I am an insurance professional and you are wrong. Insurable interest is only necessary when the policy is issued. Policies are often maintained for the benefit of the business long after an employee leaves and carried on the books as an asset.


However, if Lane only had the policy for the benefit of the business, or possibly if he had a policy for his wife through the business, there's a possibility that his wife gets nothing. I suspect some sort of uncomfortable scene as Don has to go talk to Lane's wife to (a) tell her that he's dead (she probably doesn't know yet), and (b) that he resigned first.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Jon J said:


> I am an insurance professional and you are wrong. Insurable interest is only necessary when the policy is issued. Policies are often maintained for the benefit of the business long after an employee leaves and carried on the books as an asset.


Interesting! I wouldn't have thought that would be possible or reasonable. Obviously there's some benefit to the insurance companies but it sure doesn't make sense! Like keeping insurance on a house after I've sold it.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

tiams said:


> My prediction for the season finale : Don cheats on Megan!


Duh....


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

Zevida said:


> Interesting! I wouldn't have thought that would be possible or reasonable. Obviously there's some benefit to the insurance companies but it sure doesn't make sense! Like keeping insurance on a house after I've sold it.


I don't know how it was in the '60s, but here's some reading for you: http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/april_19.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate-owned_life_insurance


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> I still don't understand why getting or not getting the life insurance payment would be a major plot point in the show.


I think we've already spent more time on the payout vs. not payout than they will in the show, I suspect they'll go by this point very quickly (I reserve the right to be completely wrong on this)


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## rifleman69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Jon J said:


> Policies are often maintained for the benefit of the business long after an employee leaves and carried on the books as an asset.


Yes, if an employee retires, not resigns. Difference between paid-up insurance and a monthly/yearly premium policy as well.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

I expected Lane to jump from the window.


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

Zevida said:


> Without knowing the terms of the contact, it's hard to say. I am no insurance expert. But I have to think a policy for the benefit of the firm is contingent on the person being an active partner. If he is not a partner/employee, they have no insurable interest. If he resigned, moved back to London, then six weeks later he died, there would be no benefits. The events happened so close together, it's fuzzy.
> 
> I'm with smeek in that I hope they don't spend a lot of time fussing over insurance or any of the details of Lane's death. I'd like them to move on.


no. The beneficiary of ANY policy remains the same until changed by the policy owner. As the firm bought the policy, it is not likely they changed the beneficiary. It will be paid to the firm, no question. His resignation has zero to do with it.


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## rifleman69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Spoiler



Paid off and now they have to pay Mrs Harris.


 Interesting...


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

Thanks for the spoiler.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

getreal said:


> Thanks for that huge spoiler, $%#&*). I've been planning to watch Fringe this summer.


Then maybe you shouldn't QUOTE the spoiler in your own post, huh? Maybe?


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

rifleman69 said:


> Yes, if an employee retires, not resigns. Difference between paid-up insurance and a monthly/yearly premium policy as well.


Another non-informed opinion. Once a policy is issued it can only be cancelled by the owner not the issuing company (unless fraud upon application is discovered in which case all paid premiums would be refunded and the policy rescinded) and the future status of the insured is irrelevant. The owner of the policy may continue to pay the full premium and receive the full policy face amount upon the death of the insured or it may exercise one of the non-forfeiture options available in the policy which may include a reduced paid-up amount of insurance or extended term insurance for the full face amount for a period depending on the premiums previously paid.

This is far off the topic of the thread but so much mis-information based on only opinion has been posted it needed to be cleared up.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Bryanmc said:


> Thanks for the spoiler.


Seriously. WTH, people?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Nimrod might have posted in the wrong thread...


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Anyone listen to a good mad men podcast? I'm trying one, but it's meh.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Firewall and Iceberg is a TV podcast, but they usually spend a good 20-30 minutes on Mad Men. When I load onto my iPhone, it shows in the description what shows at what minute marker they discuss, so I just skip to the Mad Men stuff. 

(The audio quality is not the best, especially if you're used to professional podcasts, but I got past that eventually.)


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Robin said:


> Anyone listen to a good mad men podcast? I'm trying one, but it's meh.





Zevida said:


> Firewall and Iceberg is a TV podcast, but they usually spend a good 20-30 minutes on Mad Men. When I load onto my iPhone, it shows in the description what shows at what minute marker they discuss, so I just skip to the Mad Men stuff.
> 
> (The audio quality is not the best, especially if you're used to professional podcasts, but I got past that eventually.)


ESPN's Grantland Network has a pretty good podcast called "The Hollywood Prospectus" which generally discusses what is good on right now, which means Mad Men and Game of Thrones. It's not all that in-depth, though, just a TV critic and pop culture critic talking about what they found interesting in the particular week's ep.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

There's also "Talking TV with Ryan and Ryan" where Maureen Ryan and Ryan McGee discuss TV and usually break down the most recent ep of Mad Men. It also has time codes like Firewall and Iceberg so you can just skip to the content you want to hear.


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