# Updates on the new DIRECTV TiVo



## tivoupgrade

Didn't see this posted here and not exactly sure when TiVo put this on their site, however there is now a mailing list you can sign up for on TiVo's website for updates on the DIRECTV HD DVR with TiVo service planned for later this year.










Not clear yet whether it will be a re-purposed Series3/TiVo HD with DIRECTV tuners or a DIRECTV HD DVR with TiVo functionality (perhaps implemented using middle-ware like the Comcast box) but hopefully details will emerge, soon.

Full blog post here.

Lou


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## Gunnyman

Thanks Lou 
I signed up


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## dswallow

Like anybody _here_ regularly needs to sign up to hear any news first.  It's more like DirecTV should sign up here to hear the news first.


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## CuriousMark

tivoupgrade said:


> Not clear yet whether it will be a re-purposed Series3/TiVo HD with DIRECTV tuners or a DIRECTV HD DVR with TiVo functionality (perhaps implemented using middle-ware like the Comcast box) but hopefully details will emerge, soon.


Last October at the Nataxis Bleichroeder Hidden Gems conference TiVo's CEO, Tom Rogers, said that it would not be a middle-ware supported download like the Comcast box. Unfortunately he didn't say much more than that either.

I think the leading speculation is that it will be TiVo Software on an HR2X platform, but that still no more than a guess.


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## shibby191

That mailing list was up right after the announcement last summer so it's nothing new. At DirecTV's conference call yesterday they again did not mention Tivo. Certainly not a good sign if it would indeed be rolled out this year.


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## HiDefGator

shibby191 said:


> At DirecTV's conference call yesterday they again did not mention Tivo.


I doubt it is as big a deal for Directv as it is for Tivo.


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## shibby191

HiDefGator said:


> I doubt it is as big a deal for Directv as it is for Tivo.


It's not. DirecTV really doesn't need the Tivo unit but Tivo sure needs it to come out. The Tivo conference call is March 2nd I believe so we'll see if they have any info or if they will continue their "no comment" line from CES after the CEO said it was delayed until next year.


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## innocentfreak

I swear I got it from here but good to see it posted again anyway. I made it part of my signature when I first found out about it.


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## mp11

HiDefGator said:


> I doubt it is as big a deal for Directv as it is for Tivo.


Not sure about Directv or Tivo, but its a big deal for me. Having to reset this POS HR21 twice a week is absolutely rediculous! Tivo based units *HAVE* to be better than this!


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## Navion1951

Well, I don't know if they do or don't. I have a couple of very old Sony T-60's and a Phillips box that I'm nursing along until the new DirecTiVo boxes come out. I have a couple of HiDef TV's but DirecTV isn't getting me as an HD customer until the new boxes come out. I have friends that have the Hughes HD DVR's and they are very disappointed with them. Why would I spend money on something like that?

I know it's not a big deal to get the HD fee but I wonder how many people are waiting for the new DirecTiVo boxes to make the move?


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## john-duncan-yoyo

dswallow said:


> Like anybody _here_ regularly needs to sign up to hear any news first.  It's more like DirecTV should sign up here to hear the news first.


Isn't the point for lots of people to sign up and let them know lots of people are waiting for them to get this out the door.


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## grecorj

Thanks Lou. Even if it isn't "new", it's "new to me"!


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## rock_doctor

HiDefGator said:


> I doubt it is as big a deal for Directv as it is for Tivo.


It's a big deal for me. I have absolutely had it with my old series 2 and my SA units. If D* doesn't roll these things out soon i am done with D* and i will take $90 a month elsewhere. (Sounded harsher then i had expected...  )


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## belunos

Navion1951 said:


> Well, I don't know if they do or don't. I have a couple of very old Sony T-60's and a Phillips box that I'm nursing along until the new DirecTiVo boxes come out. I have a couple of HiDef TV's but DirecTV isn't getting me as an HD customer until the new boxes come out. I have friends that have the Hughes HD DVR's and they are very disappointed with them. Why would I spend money on something like that?
> 
> I know it's not a big deal to get the HD fee but I wonder how many people are waiting for the new DirecTiVo boxes to make the move?


Those units are actually quite nice. If you're moving straight from Tivo to them you're going to hate them.. it took me about 3 months to really warm up to it. But over the life of the unit they've released tons of updates, which tells me the engineers actually care about the product. These days most of the bugs are in the hardware rather than the software.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still as tickled as a little girl about Tivo coming back, and I'll switch over to one when it gets here.. but these days, the DTV units are pretty competitive. I mean, I'm sorry, but Tivo isn't enough to make me want to go back to *shudder* Comcast -_-


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## halfempty

Navion1951 said:


> I know it's not a big deal to get the HD fee but I wonder how many people are waiting for the new DirecTiVo boxes to make the move?


I'm one of those. A friend has the D* DVR and I don't like it. I've considered switching back to cable, but then I remember all the reasons I dumped them in the first place. Luckily HD doesn't mean enough to me to get rid of my series 2 DTivos and replace them with something I don't like, so I'm patiently waiting for the new unit.


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## tivoupgrade

halfempty said:


> I've considered switching back to cable, but then I remember all the reasons I dumped them in the first place.


After 11 years with DIRECTV I ended up dumping them to go back to cable with a Series3. Ironically, our local cable options have gotten better and since there are no contract requirements, we can always go back to DIRECTV when it suits us (and when we feel like signing another two-year contract).

Lou


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## Rodwalls

I wonder if this will mean the Series 3 HD will eventually be able to work with Direct Tv. Just a thought.


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## shibby191

Rodwalls said:


> I wonder if this will mean the Series 3 HD will eventually be able to work with Direct Tv. Just a thought.


Impossible, it doesn't have satellite tuners in them (among other things). Any new Tivo unit for DirecTV with either be a new box or will be software loaded on the current DirecTV DVRs (ala the Comcast Tivo boxes).


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## CuriousMark

shibby191 said:


> Impossible, it doesn't have satellite tuners in them (among other things). Any new Tivo unit for DirecTV with either be a new box or will be software loaded on the current DirecTV DVRs (ala the Comcast Tivo boxes).


Not a download like the Comcast boxes, but a full TiVo software installation wedded directly to the DTV hardware. See above.


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## HiDefGator

CuriousMark said:


> Not a download like the Comcast boxes, but a full TiVo software installation wedded directly to the DTV hardware. See above.


Unless it ends up being diffferent hardware it could one day be a download.


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## CuriousMark

HiDefGator said:


> Unless it ends up being diffferent hardware it could one day be a download.


Rogers was very specific that the new machine would NOT be a download. If you want to speculate about something beyond this a generation or two farther out, be my guest, but that is not the topic of this thread.


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## tallgntlmn

I'm hoping I can resurrect mine long enough to hold out. If I can, i will be very happy. If not, then I have some pondering. Do I go with something (HR22) I have never seen and know I won't like (no DLB)? Or do I buy a Series 3 and still have everything I do now just with Comcast? The upside to Comcast with Series 3 is no commitment, cheaper for 6 months, and I may move to a place without a view. The downside is Comcast. I remember why I ditched their TV service back in '01. And it wasn't solely for NFLST.


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## ronsch

Navion1951 said:


> Well, I don't know if they do or don't. I have a couple of very old Sony T-60's and a Phillips box that I'm nursing along until the new DirecTiVo boxes come out. I have a couple of HiDef TV's but DirecTV isn't getting me as an HD customer until the new boxes come out. I have friends that have the Hughes HD DVR's and they are very disappointed with them. Why would I spend money on something like that?
> 
> I know it's not a big deal to get the HD fee but I wonder how many people are waiting for the new DirecTiVo boxes to make the move?


+1


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## ronsch

Just tried to sign up for the emails and it said that I've already signed up. That means two things.

1. My memory isn't getting any better.

2. I haven't received a single update email.


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## shibby191

ronsch said:


> 2. I haven't received a single update email.


Because there hasn't been one. There has really been very little information on this at all since last summer's press release. DirecTV has never talked about it beyond that, Tivo put a message on the DirecTivo boxes about it and talked it up last fall but now won't talk about it either. So who knows at this point other then it's vaporware. Again, don't make commitments to DirecTV based on something that isn't coming out any time soon and there is no hard information on.


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## innocentfreak

Navion1951 said:


> I know it's not a big deal to get the HD fee but I wonder how many people are waiting for the new DirecTiVo boxes to make the move?


I definitely have been holding off on making the jump to HD until after the new DirecTivo box is released. I am also hoping by then DTV may drop the extra HD fee since I refuse to pay anything extra since I already feel I pay more than I should for what I get.

If DTV doesn't drop the HD fee as HD becomes more and more standard, then I will be staying SD or eventually switching to Fios.


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## greatfriends

TY for the mailing list. I sure do hope it's before the end of this year though.


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## HiDefGator

innocentfreak said:


> since I already feel I pay more than I should for what I get.


don't we all!


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## innocentfreak

HiDefGator said:


> don't we all!


Yeah but it is even worse here in Florida due to the taxes on satellite services. I think my average tax on every Directv bill is $15.00 so my monthly directv bill is 150.00 just for the top package without HD or anything extra.


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## dswallow

innocentfreak said:


> Yeah but it is even worse here in Florida due to the taxes on satellite services. I think my average tax on every Directv bill is $15.00 so my monthly directv bill is 150.00 just for the top package without HD or anything extra.


Sounds like you should "move" somewhere...


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## innocentfreak

I think taxes are based off service location and not billing if I remember correctly. I know a couple of people were debating it on one of the forums.


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## ronsch

innocentfreak said:


> Yeah but it is even worse here in Florida due to the taxes on satellite services. I think my average tax on every Directv bill is $15.00 so my monthly directv bill is 150.00 just for the top package without HD or anything extra.


Mine is $15.94 and that's when I'm not paying for NFLST.


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## runtothedaylight

CuriousMark said:


> Last October at the Nataxis Bleichroeder Hidden Gems conference TiVo's CEO, Tom Rogers, said that it would not be a middle-ware supported download like the Comcast box. Unfortunately he didn't say much more than that either.
> 
> I think the leading speculation is that it will be TiVo Software on an HR2X platform, but that still no more than a guess.


I hear the directivo is in the box, but not ready to market... I hear this is still in process testing... I hear we will be beta testers... I wonder if it is just the economy holding the launch date???

I'm ready to be the "G' pig" - just let me at it!!!!


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## runtothedaylight

I am calling dtv asking questions, but find myself answering their questions.


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## runtothedaylight

Navion1951 said:


> Well, I don't know if they do or don't. I have a couple of very old Sony T-60's and a Phillips box that I'm nursing along until the new DirecTiVo boxes come out. I have a couple of HiDef TV's but DirecTV isn't getting me as an HD customer until the new boxes come out. I have friends that have the Hughes HD DVR's and they are very disappointed with them. Why would I spend money on something like that?
> 
> I know it's not a big deal to get the HD fee but I wonder how many people are waiting for the new DirecTiVo boxes to make the move?


We bought our first HDTV, but were will not switch from our current dtivo boxes until the new hd dtivo box is launched. I'm not sorry to do so as I have seen firsthand what crap the dtv box has been. It will be XMAS time for me whenever it launches.


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## ronsch

runtothedaylight said:


> We bought our first HDTV, but were will not switch from our current dtivo boxes until the new hd dtivo box is launched. I'm not sorry to do so as I have seen firsthand what crap the dtv box has been. It will be XMAS time for me whenever it launches.


It may be Christmas time by the time it launches!


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## Martyp

I heard from the tivo rep that came into the store the other day that it will ship in thge fall .


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## shibby191

Martyp said:


> I heard from the tivo rep that came into the store the other day that it will ship in thge fall .


Well, they are really pushing it if that's the case. No show at CES and now won't talk about it. We'll see what Tivo says at their call next week. If it is going to be out in the fall I would think they would have to talk about it and you'd think it would already be in beta or would be starting very soon.


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## Martyp

Well it could be in beat and the tester just can not talk about it ....

I would love to see how it works out . while I love tivo , don't think I would want to spend a bunch of money on it and have to have a new 2 year agreement .


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## HiDefGator

Martyp said:


> Well it could be in beta and the tester just can not talk about it ....


Either it would have to be a very, very small beta or run by the CIA for no one here to have even heard about a friend of a friend of a friend that had seen one.

Then you have to ask yourself why would they keep the beta so secret if everyone knows it's coming...


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## fasTLane

grecorj said:


> Thanks Lou. Even if it isn't "new", it's "new to me"!


+1 thanks


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## jesseb

Old Tivo died the other day so they sent me out a DTV brand DVR. I asked them if i could get a TIVo brand box and she told me pretty much what you guys are saying. She said that Tivo and Dtv are real close to signing a deal. And it would be the summer time before we could get one as long as the deal was signed.


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## Gunnyman

Per Tivo Shannan on Twitter (@Tivo) there is no release date for the new HDTivo


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## classicsat

The deal is signed, and whatever the answer is, is in development.
I have read someplace is that it is almost done, they are just testing it.


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## mp11

Well if it comes out in the fall, that would be perfect timing for me, as my current contract ends Sept 2nd.  As far as signing another 2 yr contract, I hope we have the option to buy it upfront. I know it would be expensive, but I'm really not willing at this point in time to sign another contract.


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## innocentfreak

I am more than willing to sign a contract if I get them as free upgrades. If it costs anything more than shipping and I don't own them I will be second guessing my decision not to switch to Fios when I could get the Tivo HDs for 199.99. Then again the same thing will happen if they don't offer TTG and MRV and just about every feature currently offered on the Tivo HD.

Either way by then I hope to have a media server with large enough space to backup any HD show I record.


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## plazman30

Anyone know what features we're going to get? Is Tivo2Go going to work? Will Home Media Option work?

I really hope we can software upgrade existing boxes, rather than get new ones...

Andy


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## shibby191

plazman30 said:


> Anyone know what features we're going to get? Is Tivo2Go going to work? Will Home Media Option work?


Specs aren't out. There is no real solid information other then the press release last summer. I highly doubt that Tivo2Go or HMO would work since it's being built to run on the DirecTV media network.



> I really hope we can software upgrade existing boxes, rather than get new ones...


Technically impossible. They can't see the new sats nor can they decode MPEG4.


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## SullyND

shibby191 said:


> Technically impossible. They can't see the new sats nor can they decode MPEG4.


I think he meant upgrades to the HRx Series of DVRs.


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## CuriousMark

SullyND said:


> I think he meant upgrades to the HRx Series of DVRs.


When asked that question last fall, TiVo's CEO said no.


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## marktd

I suspect that even if there weren't any technical issues that there would probably be a branding issue.


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## shibby191

All indications are that there will be a new receiver (HR30 if you will) that can be loaded with either the new Tivo software (at an additional cost) or the default DirecTV software. But again, there are really no details other then rumors and Tivo has been mum on the issue for a few months for some reason.


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## Daniel

I had to replace my last two DirecTiVos this last week when both failed (one with a hard drive failure and one with the slowly dieing tuner 2 problem). So now I live in a TiVoless home for the first time in nearly a decade. And yes, the R15 is a POS.

Boy, I'd wish they would hurry up!


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## tivoupgrade

Daniel said:


> I had to replace my last two DirecTiVos this last week when both failed (one with a hard drive failure and one with the slowly dieing tuner 2 problem). So now I live in a TiVoless home for the first time in nearly a decade. And yes, the R15 is a POS.
> 
> Boy, I'd wish they would hurry up!


You know that both of those units can be repaired relatively easily, yes?


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## plazman30

shibby191 said:


> Specs aren't out. There is no real solid information other then the press release last summer. I highly doubt that Tivo2Go or HMO would work since it's being built to run on the DirecTV media network.
> 
> Technically impossible. They can't see the new sats nor can they decode MPEG4.


I have a HR-22 and it does MPEG4 just fine, since that's what DirectTV is broadcasting in.

Andy


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## Daniel

tivoupgrade said:


> You know that both of those units can be repaired relatively easily, yes?


Sure, but why spend the money if they are just going to be replaced with the new ones in 6-12 months.


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## rbtravis

Plazman30:
Since when is HR-22 a Tivo? This is a Tivo Thread.


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## codespy

Daniel said:


> Sure, but why spend the money if they are just going to be replaced with the new ones in 6-12 months.


I have a funny feeling we'll have to pony up some c-notes for a replacement.


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## tivoupgrade

Daniel said:


> Sure, but why spend the money if they are just going to be replaced with the new ones in 6-12 months.


Because for many people, not having a TiVo NOW is an issue (that was the impression I was under from your post). A year is a long time to wait, and if you are spending $50-100 a month for DIRECTV, the cost of a hard drive and a few hours of time is not much, by comparison.

But my point is that it is an option and there is no need to throw out your TiVo unit if you really want it to still work, for however long you want.

Lou

[edit] One of your units sounds like it has a bad tuner, so repairing that one is a little more involved. It costs about $100 at CCS to do that one. Might or might be worth it given your priorities of either having TiVo now vs waiting...


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## catocony

Daniel is thinking the same as me. I may think differently if the DirecTivo HDs come out at $500 or something silly. 

That said, what is the cheapest way to replace a single tuner? Prices on Weakknees are about $129, is it relatively easy to buy a unit off of E-bay and scavenge parts or is the tuner built into the motherboard and you have to swap out the whole board to replace it?


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## Daniel

codespy said:


> I have a funny feeling we'll have to pony up some c-notes for a replacement.


Sure, but why spend $200+ now and then another $300-500 (for 2 new boxes) in 6-12 months when I could just spend the $300-500 in 6-12 months. I don't like living without a TiVo for that time (the R15 is a real POS) but I'm not in a position where I can just waste money (must be nice if you can.)


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## rbtravis

Catocony:
The tuner is built into the motherboard, It can be fixed by CCS corp.
http://www.ccscorporation.net/dss.htm
It is rather expensive, it is the green thing to do.


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## tivoupgrade

catocony said:


> That said, what is the cheapest way to replace a single tuner?


$99 -- ccscorporation.net

We do it for that much too (but you have to purchase a drive kit at the same time).

Daniel, I'm not trying to convince you, or anyone, to do anything you don't want. I was just mentioning that repairing is an option vs replacing with the non-TiVo stuff DIRECTV is offering in the interim. There are no guarantees that the new boxwill be available any time soon, and nobody really knows how good it will be...

... for some folks, TV is a waste of money at ANY price and for others, having a TiVo vs not having one is worth the money. Everyone is different in what they value...

Lou


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## Daniel

tivoupgrade said:


> Daniel, I'm not trying to convince you, or anyone, to do anything you don't want. I was just mentioning that repairing is an option vs replacing with the non-TiVo stuff DIRECTV is offering in the interim. There are no guarantees that the new boxwill be available any time soon, and nobody really knows how good it will be...
> 
> Lou


I live in hope. But if the new DirecTiVos don't come out by this time next year, I'll probably switch to Dish for their new 922 boxes. I'd rather stay with DirecTV, but a Dish 922 is better than the c**p from DirecTV.


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## plazman30

rbtravis said:


> Plazman30:
> Since when is HR-22 a Tivo? This is a Tivo Thread.


It's not a Tivo, but since it obviously has mpeg4 hardware decoding in it, and pretty beefy specs, I would think there would be some way to upgrade this with the Tivo software, if DirecTV chose to do so. That's all I am saying....

I had an HR-10, which I LOVED, and then moved to the HR-22, only because they promised a Tivo based HD box, and because FIOS isn't here yet...

Andy


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## six_speed

Thanks! :up:


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## bitmap

plazman30 said:


> It's not a Tivo, but since it obviously has mpeg4 hardware decoding in it, and pretty beefy specs, I would think there would be some way to upgrade this with the Tivo software, if DirecTV chose to do so.


I have to admit, if the new HD DTivo is built on existing D*TV hardware as some believe it could be, it would be very nice for everyone who already has an HR DVR to be able to simply wipe the D*TV software and replace it with the Tivo software.


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## sk33t3r

Thanks for the link


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## cadamy

Thanks for posting this. I'm SO interested in buying one of the new models when they're available and hadn't heard anything from Tivo.


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## MikeSh

I've had 1 HDVR2 repaired by weaknees and may have to have a 2nd one done. I'd much rather do that then put up with DTV crap boxes.

Can't wait for the new DTV/Tivo boxes.


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## kurtangle

My original R10 is still working great. Dual live action buffers is the most important feature missing to me in the HR21s. My parents got an HR21 after getting a new HDTV. I personally would rather have my two buffers on the R10 even though it is in SD.

The day that DTV releases this new HD Directivo unit with dual live action buffers, I will upgrade to HD.

This new unit will have dual live action buffers right?


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## innocentfreak

At this point no one knows what the new Tivo has and everything else is all just speculation. Both Directv and Tivo have been extremely tight lipped so no idea whether we will be happy or disappointed. We don't even know when it is coming out.


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## shibby191

kurtangle said:


> My original R10 is still working great. Dual live action buffers is the most important feature missing to me in the HR21s. My parents got an HR21 after getting a new HDTV. I personally would rather have my two buffers on the R10 even though it is in SD.
> 
> The day that DTV releases this new HD Directivo unit with dual live action buffers, I will upgrade to HD.
> 
> This new unit will have dual live action buffers right?


Well, since the HR units will have DLB shortly (in testing now) I'd have to say the new Tivo unit will as well.


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## magnus

I can't imagine a new Tivo that would not.



shibby191 said:


> Well, since the HR units will have DLB shortly (in testing now) I'd have to say the new Tivo unit will as well.


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## captkirk685

If these new units don't have MRV then I won't touch them with a 10 foot pole because that is a feature I have grown very fond of having. I have 4 tivo's and its a great feature to have and hard t live without if your used to having it.


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## samo

captkirk685 said:


> If these new units don't have MRV then I won't touch them with a 10 foot pole because that is a feature I have grown very fond of having. I have 4 tivo's and its a great feature to have and hard t live without if your used to having it.


There is nor reason to believe that new DirecTivo will not have MRV because HR2X units already have it (Cutting Edge - public beta for now, but it works and will be released to the rest of the customers soon).
As a matter of fact, new DirecTiVo most likely will have 1080P output (unlike S3) because HR2X already has it on PPV movies.


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## CuriousMark

samo said:


> There is nor reason to believe that new DirecTivo will not have MRV because HR2X units already have it (Cutting Edge - public beta for now, but it works and will be released to the rest of the customers soon).


I agree, but for me the question is will it be TiVo or DTV MRV? I suspect it will be DTV only and not inter-operate with standalone TiVo DVRs.


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## stevel

Given that the DirecTV MRV is based on different protocols, I would be VERY surprised to find any interoperability with standalone TiVos.


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## dah31

tivoupgrade said:


> Didn't see this posted here and not exactly sure when TiVo put this on their site, however there is now a mailing list you can sign up for on TiVo's website for updates on the DIRECTV HD DVR with TiVo service planned for later this year.


The third line of that first paragraph has changed. Where it did read

launch in the second half of 2009!​
, it now reads

launch to support satellite customers in 2010.​
. Just when I thought we were getting to within a few months....


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## shibby191

dah31 said:


> The third line of that first paragraph has changed. Where it did read
> 
> launch in the second half of 2009!​
> , it now reads
> 
> launch to support satellite customers in 2010.​
> . Just when I thought we were getting to within a few months....


Old news actually. Tivo announced the delay a few months ago and filed it in their SEC update.


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## tivoupgrade

Yes, that was actually announced back in January. More info on it here.


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## innocentfreak

Good read on the blog. I keep going back and forth whether to buy the Tivo HD especially if I can find them at Sears on clearance or wait for the DTivo. I think the fact there is such a lack of information is what is making the decision difficult. Will the DTivo have all the features of the regular Tivo, how much more will it cost a month, and what will it cost to upgrade to the new DTivos?

With all of these being unknown, the Tivo HD is definitely tempting.


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## bengalfreak

innocentfreak said:


> Good read on the blog. I keep going back and forth whether to buy the Tivo HD especially if I can find them at Sears on clearance or wait for the DTivo. I think the fact there is such a lack of information is what is making the decision difficult. Will the DTivo have all the features of the regular Tivo, how much more will it cost a month, and what will it cost to upgrade to the new DTivos?
> 
> With all of these being unknown, the Tivo HD is definitely tempting.


Just for your information, MRV and TTG have never been listed anywhere as being part of the features available on the new DTivo. Doesn't mean they won't be, but I think if Tivo was able to include them, they would have been listed prominently among the expected features. Just my opinion.


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## tivoupgrade

innocentfreak said:


> Good read on the blog. I keep going back and forth whether to buy the Tivo HD especially if I can find them at Sears on clearance or wait for the DTivo. I think the fact there is such a lack of information is what is making the decision difficult. Will the DTivo have all the features of the regular Tivo, how much more will it cost a month, and what will it cost to upgrade to the new DTivos?
> 
> With all of these being unknown, the Tivo HD is definitely tempting.


I would look at it from the perspective of the value of not waiting, vs waiting. After all, even when this device is ultimately available, there will be something else on the horizon potentially worth waiting for. You could end up with nothing, forever!

The good thing about the TiVo HD and cable as there are no contracts involved. If you are not in a contract with DIRECTV, the decision to go with TiVo HD / cable is easy to reverse if you change your mind later. Purchase a lifetime subscription for the TiVo HD and you will likely sell it and the TiVo HD a year or so from now and get most of that investment back.

I certainly don't regret having dropped DIRECTV six months ago to go with the Series3, but I was not in a contract. If the new system comes out in a year (and it could very well be longer than that), it is always an option to switch back. Meanwhile, no waiting.


----------



## innocentfreak

bengalfreak said:


> Just for your information, MRV and TTG have never been listed anywhere as being part of the features available on the new DTivo. Doesn't mean they won't be, but I think if Tivo was able to include them, they would have been listed prominently among the expected features. Just my opinion.


I don't think they had announced or listed any features yet which is part of my problem. There is no way to know what the new box will and won't have. Also for all we know it could turn out to be based off Series 4 hardware which may be out by the time the Directivo is launched.



tivoupgrade said:


> I would look at it from the perspective of the value of not waiting, vs waiting. After all, even when this device is ultimately available, there will be something else on the horizon potentially worth waiting for. You could end up with nothing, forever!


True but at the same time there are better times to upgrade versus others. Like for example in computers, I wouldn't build/upgrade a computer right now if you can get by for a few more months. With Windows 7 rumored to be out in October and new Intel chips due out also, I would wait. Now if Windows 7 wasn't out there and only rumors of a new operating system no I wouldn't wait.



tivoupgrade said:


> The good thing about the TiVo HD and cable as there are no contracts involved. If you are not in a contract with DIRECTV, the decision to go with TiVo HD / cable is easy to reverse if you change your mind later. Purchase a lifetime subscription for the TiVo HD and you will likely sell it and the TiVo HD a year or so from now and get most of that investment back.
> 
> I certainly don't regret having dropped DIRECTV six months ago to go with the Series3, but I was not in a contract. If the new system comes out in a year (and it could very well be longer than that), it is always an option to switch back. Meanwhile, no waiting.


Unfortunately with Fios, I would have a 1 or 2 year contract, not to mention the year requirement with Tivo HDs. Also Directv only allows you to suspend your contract for 6 months. I am also grandfathered in on the old plan where I don't pay for DVR service and I also have E/W feeds for SD at least on NBC and ABC which is extremely helpful for conflicts. I would lose these if I left DTV completely which are definitely nice to have.

I think part of my major dilemma also is the Series 3 isn't a huge leap forward from my DTivos as far as what I gain from switching. MRV and TTG would be what I use the most.


----------



## catocony

Well, I'm pretty well settled with DirecTV after all these years, and though I still use Cox for cable modem service, I would not willingly go back to them for digital cable. I'm no fan of Verizon at all - I don't even use them for land-line phone, I use a CLEC instead - so FIOS doesn't much interest me. 

So for me, I see three paths ahead when I upgrade my TVs (my DirecTV dish is an HD one). One, there will be a nice DirecTivo HD out next year which will replace my standard DirecTivo, which I love. Two, maybe a new standalone TV will work with the next round of DirecTV HD non-DVR receivers. That's probably wishful thinking. Third, I abandon DirecTV and use the Hughes HD-DVRs.

I really do not like my R-15, I find the interface to be slow and sloppy and counterintuitive compared to Tivo. I've put it on the backburner for a while and am running two Hughes R-10s, though I'll probably pull one of those down in a few months to use as a spare for the other and re-install the R-15. 

I guess it's really two choices - hope for an HD DirecTivo that does what the SD ones currently do plus hopefully more, or hope that DirecTV/Hughes enhances their software to make it faster and more usable and switch over to it if the HD DirecTivos never see the light of day. I would imagine that's the rub right now for DirecTV - stay private label for the next round of DVRs, or turn it back over to Tivo. I don't know how much more DirecTV makes with private-label product instead of Tivo-label product, but I would be willing to pay a few bucks more per month for Tivo software vs. the crap Hughes interface.


----------



## shibby191

Trash the R15 which was replaced a long time ago. It is old and outdated. Get the R22 instead which is the MPEG4 capable SD DVR and is in step with the HR2x series software.
At the least get an R16 which is way better then the R15 ever was.

I know a lot of people base their feelings of the DirecTV DVR from the R15 which frankly was a failure. But that was 3-4 years ago. And it was NDS software. Things have come a long way and the current DirecTV DVRs R16, R22 and HR21/22/23 do *not* use the NDS software but use in house developed DirecTV code. Basically it's a lot better. Is it Tivo? No. But it's no R15 either.

Heck, the R22 even has DLB and MRV as well with the latest cutting edge/beta software that's in testing.


----------



## tivoupgrade

Dave Zatz comments on recent TiVo quarterly conference call and the new DIRECTV TiVo's delay until 2010.


----------



## shibby191

tivoupgrade said:


> Dave Zatz comments on recent TiVo quarterly conference call and the new DIRECTV TiVo's delay until 2010.


Why is this news to him? It was officially delayed until 2010 2-3 months ago. Nothing new but I guess that blogger missed it.


----------



## tivoupgrade

shibby191 said:


> Why is this news to him? It was officially delayed until 2010 2-3 months ago. Nothing new but I guess that blogger missed it.


I have not seen anything in writing to confirm that, other than speculation in various news groups; was there an official announcement of a delay?

What is interesting about Dave's post is that the delay was confirmed by Tom Rogers in the analyst conference call, referenced in his post.

Lou


----------



## shibby191

tivoupgrade said:


> I have not seen anything in writing to confirm that, other than speculation in various news groups; was there an official announcement of a delay?
> 
> What is interesting about Dave's post is that the delay was confirmed by Tom Rogers in the analyst conference call, referenced in his post.
> 
> Lou


Well, it was written in their SEC filing a couple months ago and Tom Rogers also addressed it in one of the financial calls (the Citi one I believe) around the same time and confirmed it's delay. Been talking about it in large threads on both DBSTalk and Satguys since then.


----------



## davezatz

shibby191 said:


> Why is this news to him? It was officially delayed until 2010 2-3 months ago. Nothing new but I guess that blogger missed it.


Partially missed, mostly misled by TiVo, Inc. :/ I did miss the SEC filing in April. However the *official* line out of PR and IR for most of 2009 has been no changes to the original proclamation/schedule. At CES (Jan) they reinforced no changes to me, after the last earnings call (March) they reinforced no changes, and at the Cable Show in April they did as well. In an email exchange on 4/24 my primary PR contact had nothing to convey about DirecTV, but suggested I tune into the earnings call in May. (Perhaps she didn't know about the already published SEC filing at that time.) I spoke with Scott G (Satellite Guys) the other day after this most recent call and the info he gleaned at CES came via an engineer - so obviously folks at TiVo knew, but I suspect they were trying to keep the info under wraps as long as possible and reveal it with little fanfare to lessen the blow to the share price.

EDIT: I should add the reason I've kept asking TiVo about this DirecTV DVR delivery date is because I thought the original schedule was overly aggressive and unlikely, as I've mentioned in a few places.


----------



## stevel

TiVo has learned to be as tight-lipped as possible when it comes to details of deals with carriers such as DirecTV. I remember Pony tell me he had been "slapped" for making a comment about DirecTV and TiVo that wasn't in the script.


----------



## innocentfreak

stevel said:


> TiVo has learned to be as tight-lipped as possible when it comes to details of deals with carriers such as DirecTV. I remember Pony tell me he had been "slapped" for making a comment about DirecTV and TiVo that wasn't in the script.


Why though? Have they announced or let things slip in the past that didn't come out?

I would rather have some news rather than no news.


----------



## shibby191

innocentfreak said:


> Why though? Have they announced or let things slip in the past that didn't come out?
> 
> I would rather have some news rather than no news.


I think the HR10-250 was delayed by about a year and the first cable card Tivo was delayed as well. And of course the Comcast Tivo was delayed 2+ years and the Cox Tivo is still not out, very delayed. No idea if any of that was Tivo's "fault" (prolly cablelabs more then anything on the 2nd one) but perhaps they have gotten smacked enough for promising more then they can deliver so they suddenly have gone quiet. Also, the sooner they admit that the DirecTV deal is delayed that means the sooner the stock may go down so they probably have tried to keep a lid on this one but you can't pull the wool over on the SEC.


----------



## shibby191

davezatz said:


> Partially missed, mostly misled by TiVo, Inc. :/ I did miss the SEC filing in April. However the *official* line out of PR and IR for most of 2009 has been no changes to the original proclamation/schedule. At CES (Jan) they reinforced no changes to me, after the last earnings call (March) they reinforced no changes, and at the Cable Show in April they did as well. In an email exchange on 4/24 my primary PR contact had nothing to convey about DirecTV, but suggested I tune into the earnings call in May. (Perhaps she didn't know about the already published SEC filing at that time.) I spoke with Scott G (Satellite Guys) the other day after this most recent call and the info he gleaned at CES came via an engineer - so obviously folks at TiVo knew, but I suspect they were trying to keep the info under wraps as long as possible and reveal it with little fanfare to lessen the blow to the share price.
> 
> EDIT: I should add the reason I've kept asking TiVo about this DirecTV DVR delivery date is because I thought the original schedule was overly aggressive and unlikely, as I've mentioned in a few places.


No troubles. Seems pretty widely known to me, sorry to get on ya.


----------



## stevel

innocentfreak said:


> Why though? Have they announced or let things slip in the past that didn't come out?


They mentioned features and schedules, which were not theirs to announce. In the case of DirecTV at least, DirecTV "owns" the product and TiVo is just a subcontractor. They're not supposed to blab things on their own, no matter how much it would be nice for us.


----------



## innocentfreak

stevel said:


> They mentioned features and schedules, which were not theirs to announce. In the case of DirecTV at least, DirecTV "owns" the product and TiVo is just a subcontractor. They're not supposed to blab things on their own, no matter how much it would be nice for us.


Oops forgot I was in the Directv section. I can understand that then. It would be nice though if Tivo at least gave us a little more communication even if it is the regular Tivo and not the DirecTivo.


----------



## stevel

From the experience at my employer, which does divulge future plans months and even years in advance, I know that they are very careful that if they release any "futures" info that they do it in public, and not to limited audiences. This is probably to prevent running afoul of the SEC. Employees are required to take training every year to remind them of what can and cannot be discussed with others.


----------



## Kinryuu

Our DirecTV receiver bit the dust, and the replacement only works with IR, which is iffy, but we'll hold out for a new Tivo now, instead of downgrading to a regular DVR. Thanks for the pointer to the info.


----------



## carrmic

The site in from the original post now shows 2010 as a release date with no quarter or half specified. I want a new HD DirecTV TiVo with new features. My series 1 is just getting too old. Now I am going to have to seriously consider switching to C*mcast much to my dismay.


----------



## shibby191

carrmic said:


> The site in from the original post now shows 2010 as a release date with no quarter or half specified. I want a new HD DirecTV TiVo with new features. My series 1 is just getting too old. Now I am going to have to seriously consider switching to C*mcast much to my dismay.


Tivo announced 2010 back at the beginning of the year. The only specific they have said is "as soon as we can in 2010" basically.


----------



## turbogt350

What are my options I have a HR10-250 which is losing HD channels, but the wife loves her TIVO. She hates the DTV units, does not live menu setup, and most of all no DLB. Problem is she wants HD for the new fall TV shows.


----------



## weaknees

Are most of the fall shows she watches available via OTA?


----------



## stevel

DLB is coming. My wife also prefers the TiVo interface, but I find her watching the HR21 more and more...


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## fasTLane

There will be no DLB until Tivo is revived.


----------



## samo

fasTLane said:


> There will be no DLB until Tivo is revived.


I hate proclamations like that from people who don't have a clue.
There IS one if you willing to be a part of public beta (search this forum for Cutting Edge or go to dbstalk.com).


----------



## innocentfreak

Well he may possibly be correct since there is no guarantee beta will release much less before the Tivo comes out. DLB and the new Directivo are just about equal in my eyes until either of them are in hand and fully released. I have been in too many betas to see products not released, features scrapped, and things abandoned.


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## litzdog911

DirecTV calls Dual Live Buffers "Double Play". It's coming on the HD DVRs soon. In fact, DirecTV announced it in their July DirecTV Program magazine. Perhaps a bit prematurely.


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## shibby191

Been using DLB on the HR's for a few months now. MRV too.


----------



## bigpuma

innocentfreak said:


> Well he may possibly be correct since there is no guarantee beta will release much less before the Tivo comes out. DLB and the new Directivo are just about equal in my eyes until either of them are in hand and fully released. I have been in too many betas to see products not released, features scrapped, and things abandoned.


As far as I know the features that DirecTV tests in their public beta program generally come out nationally within a few months. They have been testing DLBs for over a month already. I would expect to see it fairly soon. The DirecTiVo won't be available until sometime next year.


----------



## tivoupgrade

turbogt350 said:


> What are my options I have a HR10-250 which is losing HD channels, but the wife loves her TIVO. She hates the DTV units, does not live menu setup, and most of all no DLB. Problem is she wants HD for the new fall TV shows.


When you say "new fall TV shows" are you speaking primarily of network television broadcasts? (ie FOX, ABC, NBC, CBS, etc?) If so, then using the OTA (over the air) capability of the HR0-250 is an option worth considering.

If you are willing to consider getting rid of the HR10-250 and DIRECTV altogether, then a TiVo HD will give you the option of using an OTA antenna AND using a cable provider for the rest...


----------



## Steveknj

bigpuma said:


> As far as I know the features that DirecTV tests in their public beta program generally come out nationally within a few months. They have been testing DLBs for over a month already. I would expect to see it fairly soon. The DirecTiVo won't be available until sometime next year.


The DLBs work well with the HR2x boxes. The one thing I don't like is the extra down arrow press to activate it. Otherwise, it works. Really, for those resisting the HR2x boxes, don't. They work well now, and have a lot of features that the old D*Tivo doesn't have. The Tivo interface MAY be a bit easier to use, but, that might be more for familiarty sake than anything. That said, I will be interested to see what D* and Tivo come up with and whether it will be worth a few extra bucks to invest in it.


----------



## bengalfreak

For those in the DTV beta, does MRV work alot like Tivo? Are there alot of shows/movies that cannot be MRV'd?


----------



## stevel

One is not supposed to discuss the beta outside of the Cutting Edge section of the dbstalk.com forum. I am not using this feature myself, but my understanding is that it is a streaming play and not a copy to play later, similar to the way you can already play a recorded program on your PC (but not copy it). Given this, I would be surprised if there were shows you could not view in this manner.

If you want the full scoop, join dbstalk.com, join the "Cutting Edge" group, and read what people have to say there.


----------



## shibby191

bengalfreak said:


> For those in the DTV beta, does MRV work alot like Tivo? Are there alot of shows/movies that cannot be MRV'd?


Yea, you really need to go to DBSTalk for info as CE stuff is not supposed to be talked about outside the CE forums.

Having said that, there are no limitations whatsoever in terms of content that can me MRV'd. I take it Tivo has limitations? DirecTV has none. And it is streaming. So I can watch it on the DVR it was recorded on and stop it. Then go to another room and resume where it left off. Stop it and go to yet another room and resume it yet again.


----------



## bengalfreak

shibby191 said:


> Yea, you really need to go to DBSTalk for info as CE stuff is not supposed to be talked about outside the CE forums.
> 
> Having said that, there are no limitations whatsoever in terms of content that can me MRV'd. I take it Tivo has limitations? DirecTV has none. And it is streaming. So I can watch it on the DVR it was recorded on and stop it. Then go to another room and resume where it left off. Stop it and go to yet another room and resume it yet again.


One final question, and I'll post it in the Cutting Edge forum also, does this mean that it is not possible to permanently move shows from one DVR to another?


----------



## shibby191

bengalfreak said:


> One final question, and I'll post it in the Cutting Edge forum also, does this mean that it is not possible to permanently move shows from one DVR to another?


It's streaming, there is no transfer of shows.


----------



## bengalfreak

shibby191 said:


> It's streaming, there is no transfer of shows.


That's kind of a bummer since I offload shows from the main Tivo, to the bedrooms, when it starts to get full.


----------



## stevel

One advantage is that you don't need a DVR everywhere - a DirecTV HD receiver-only can also play shows (as can a PC).


----------



## bengalfreak

stevel said:


> One advantage is that you don't need a DVR everywhere - a DirecTV HD receiver-only can also play shows (as can a PC).


Not much of an advantage considering you would lose the ability to pause LiveTV wherever there is not a DVR correct?


----------



## litzdog911

bengalfreak said:


> Not much of an advantage considering you would lose the ability to pause LiveTV wherever there is not a DVR correct?


Of course a stand-alone DirecTV Receiver cannot pause live TV because it has no hard drive. But the ability to use the Receiver to view recordings from networked HD DVRs will be very nice for many folks who don't really need multiple DVRs.


----------



## shibby191

bengalfreak said:


> Not much of an advantage considering you would lose the ability to pause LiveTV wherever there is not a DVR correct?


If you are using MRV to view a program from a DVR, say an HR20/21/22/23 on your non DVR, say an H21 or H23 you can certainly pause the program, FFW, RRW and all the other transport controls. And if you stop the program you can resume it from the stop point on another networked receiver in the house. You can even remote delete it from said H21/23. 

DBSTalk has all the info on this.


----------



## bengalfreak

We are too used to having a DVR at every television. I think we will stick with the DirecTivo's as long as possible.


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## stevel

You CAN have a DirecTV DVR at every television if that's what you want.


----------



## shibby191

Yep, you can certainly have a DVR at every location with full MRV functionality on them. In fact you can have your playlist show recorded shows from *all* your MRV'd DVRs in one listing if you want. So you can watch shows recorded on any of the DVRs in the house on any other DVR in the house or any non-DVR as well. Up to you how you do it.


----------



## turbogt350

tivoupgrade said:


> When you say "new fall TV shows" are you speaking primarily of network television broadcasts? (ie FOX, ABC, NBC, CBS, etc?) If so, then using the OTA (over the air) capability of the HR0-250 is an option worth considering.
> 
> If you are willing to consider getting rid of the HR10-250 and DIRECTV altogether, then a TiVo HD will give you the option of using an OTA antenna AND using a cable provider for the rest...


I just installed a Square Shooter 2 antenna, but it is going to be close on getting a good signal. It is a little low, the house nextdoor might be blocking some of the signal. Plus I think I just ran 2 cables to the HR10-250. 
She would test a new one TiVo! and give real feedback, how about beta testing?


----------



## stevel

DirecTV will be running the beta test for the new boxes. I have no idea if such a test has started (DirecTV is usually very good about keeping such things quiet.)


----------



## MikeSh

My main DTV box ix an HDVR-2 with about 300 hours of recording time. Tuner 2 on this box is dying. I had hoped to put off repairing it waiting on a new D*/Tivo HD box later this year.

Well after reading this disappointing news I guess I'll ship it off to Weaknees for repair next week. I have a 2nd HDVR-2 that I had repaired last year. It only has about 30 hours of record time.

I've been wanting to upgrade to HD but plan on waiting until Tivo and DTV get their act together.


----------



## Athenian

MikeSh said:


> I've been wanting to upgrade to HD but plan on waiting until Tivo and DTV get their act together.


Same here.


----------



## CuriousMark

MikeSh said:


> I've been wanting to upgrade to HD but plan on waiting until Tivo and DTV get their act together.


Myself also. I am in Time Warner cable country, so if TW turns off their CCI byte shenanigans first, I might go with them instead. It is a race, but somehow I think DTV will design, develop, test, manufacture and release a new box before Time Warner management sees their way clear to write a memo directing head ends to turn off the excess use of the CCI 0x02 flag.


----------



## dlfl

I have TWC Digital Cable and a new TiVo HD, but I feel the same way. I'm hoping the DTV TiVo will be a better alternative and will pay what it takes to get there if it is.

But don't we have to worry about CCI=0x02 with DTV also?


----------



## BeBeep

I sure hope this new DVR comes out soon. My SAT-T60 is getting tired and I want to upgrade.


----------



## kschauwe

BeBeep said:


> I sure hope this new DVR comes out soon. My SAT-T60 is getting tired and I want to upgrade.


We just bought a 52" Samsung LCD, looking forward getting the Directivo HD when it is released.


----------



## MarcudMCD

Any new news on a release date for the new HD DirecTivo unit? One of my current DirecTV units is going out on me, and I thought I would wait for the new Tivo one. I had originally heard that it would be out in September of 2009, and later saw on the Tivo website that it was slated for 2010.


----------



## shibby191

Over 6 months ago Tivo announced it was delayed to 2010.

There has been zero mention of it beyond confirming 2010 since then and DirecTV hasn't said anything about it since it was originally announced well over a year ago.


----------



## kaszeta

It's probably well over a year away. Get an HR2x DVR and enjoy some HD DVR goodness while you wait.


----------



## Iluv2watch

Since I am waiting for the the new DirecTv HD Tivo, I called their Support, and asked the rep "WHEN". She couldn't say "WHEN", but she did say:

When the new DirecTv HD Tivo comes out, customer will send a check per month, to DirecTv for the programming (as usual) 

AND 

a check to Tivo for $12.99 per month PER UNIT for DVR service! This means if you have 2 DirecTv HD Tivo units, that's $25.98 per MONTH for DVR service

OUCH!


----------



## weaknees

Iluv2watch said:


> Since I am waiting for the the new DirecTv HD Tivo, I called their Support, and asked the rep "WHEN". She couldn't say "WHEN", but she did say:
> 
> When the new DirecTv HD Tivo comes out, customer will send a check per month, to DirecTv for the programming (as usual)
> 
> AND
> 
> a check to Tivo for $12.99 per month PER UNIT for DVR service! This means if you have 2 DirecTv HD Tivo units, that's $25.98 per MONTH for DVR service
> 
> OUCH!


I seriously doubt that. Even if you have a direct account with TiVo you:

a) pay less for the second box

and

b) can't pay by check, as far as I know.


----------



## texster

Hmm. With impending release of the hd unit, it is not surprising that Directv has ended the legacy pricing practice of no dvr fee if you have the premium package. The directv dvr fee itself has increased over a short time from $4 to $7, perhaps in part to better align with tivo rates.


----------



## catocony

Why in this day and age anyone would believe a word that DirecTV customer dis-service or non-support is beyond me. I'll assume that what the person told you is somewhere between 0-99% correct, with odds on it being closer to 0% than 99%.


----------



## bwld123

i seriously doubt that someone low on the chain would have info as to when and how the TiVo DirecTV receiver will be out and even more unlikely that you would be paying 2 different companies.

the way it would work is that TiVo would charge DTV let's say $0.80 per sub per month (and im not going to be far off on that $0.80 number!), and in turn DTV will jack up your DVR price from $7 (not even sure what they charge.. i should look at my bill!) to $10.


----------



## catocony

It's currently $6.00 per month for DVR service.


----------



## innocentfreak

catocony said:


> It's currently $6.00 per month for DVR service.


come February it goes up to $7 I believe.


----------



## catocony

I haven't received a letter or email saying that they're going to start charging me in February. It will be interesting when/if it comes and if they do in fact start charging for DVR service. My monthly is currently $115.74 with two receivers and the Total package, no DVR charge. That's SD, too. If they start charging for DVR service, I'm looking at $122.74, going to HD will tack on more bucks. Plus, the rates seem to be going up a steady few bucks a year. $130 a month for TV is reaching my point where I will look at alternatives like FIOS where I can at least bundle phone and internet in.


----------



## innocentfreak

Directv announces new rates starting February

Some people have gotten letters about losing their grandfathered package since the DVR fee is no longer included. I don't know if they had any luck keeping the old package since I dropped Directv 2 months ago.


----------



## stevel

I got an email about the new rates.


----------



## Athenian

Iluv2watch said:


> ...a check to Tivo for $12.99 per month PER UNIT for DVR service!


That's rather hard to believe given that stand alone TiVo service is $12.95/month with no contract ($10 for an annual contract) and $7 for additional units.

It will be interesting though, to see if they will reinstate a lifetime option for the boxes.


----------



## nrc

Iluv2watch said:


> Since I am waiting for the the new DirecTv HD Tivo, I called their Support, and asked the rep "WHEN". She couldn't say "WHEN", but she did say:
> 
> When the new DirecTv HD Tivo comes out, customer will send a check per month, to DirecTv for the programming (as usual)
> 
> AND
> 
> a check to Tivo for $12.99 per month PER UNIT for DVR service! This means if you have 2 DirecTv HD Tivo units, that's $25.98 per MONTH for DVR service
> 
> OUCH!


I'm pretty sure that's nonsense. The "new" deal with TiVo is really just an amendment to the existing deal. There are no terms that would make these accounts TiVo owned accounts, which would be the only reason why you would pay TiVo directly.


----------



## nrc

Athenian said:


> That's rather hard to believe given that stand alone TiVo service is $12.95/month with no contract ($10 for an annual contract) and $7 for additional units.
> 
> It will be interesting though, to see if they will reinstate a lifetime option for the boxes.


There's always at least a one year contract for new TiVo subs. $12.95 is for monthly, $129 is for a year in advance. Of course, I doubt that any of this is relevant to the new DTV TiVo when it arrives.


----------



## 1999cobra

nrc said:


> when it arrives.


Yes - and when exactly will that be - DTV bunch of lying, manipulative, greedy, bastards...


----------



## steve841

1999cobra said:


> Yes - and when exactly will that be - DTV bunch of lying, manipulative, greedy, bastards...


AfreakinMen!


----------



## Rainy Dave

Why would you want to give any money to a bunch of "lying, manipulative, greedy, bastards..."?


----------



## 1999cobra

Rainy Dave said:


> Why would you want to give any money to a bunch of "lying, manipulative, greedy, bastards..."?


Who said I do ...?


----------



## Rainy Dave

1999cobra said:


> Who said I do ...?


Ah sorry...didn't realize you just wanted to thread crap. My bad.


----------



## 1999cobra

please see your PM's for my answer -


----------



## Rainy Dave

1999cobra said:


> please see your PM's for my answer -


Very nice. Thank you for you insightful and well thought out PM. It reveals a lot about you.


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## Da Goon

Rainy Dave said:


> Very nice. Thank you for you insightful and well thought out PM. It reveals a lot about you.


you should share


----------



## bwld123

Now, Im not saying that a new DirecTV receiver w/TiVo is immenent, but this is interesting... The standalone HD TiVo (which sells for $250) is not availible to buy on either TiVo's own website which says its out of stock, or on BestBuy's website. Now.. im going to take a leap and say that much of the new technology that TiVo will put into their new standalone box will be shared with the DirecTV box... They have wound down inventory for a reason... its for a new box. I just hope that means the DirecTV box is right around the corner also!!!


----------



## fasTLane

That *is * interesting.


----------



## Adam1115

bwld123 said:


> Now, Im not saying that a new DirecTV receiver w/TiVo is immenent, but this is interesting... The standalone HD TiVo (which sells for $250) is not availible to buy on either TiVo's own website which says its out of stock, or on BestBuy's website. Now.. im going to take a leap and say that much of the new technology that TiVo will put into their new standalone box will be shared with the DirecTV box... They have wound down inventory for a reason... its for a new box. I just hope that means the DirecTV box is right around the corner also!!!


Looks like it's available to me....


----------



## bwld123

Adam1115 said:


> Looks like it's available to me....


go try and buy one.. if you go to tivo.com, go to shop, then DVR. The top one shows "out of stock". On BestBuy it says "backordered" which in my experience as an equity analyst, they do when a new model is about to come out


----------



## litzdog911

I seriously doubt that any "shortage" of the standalone HD Tivos has anything to do with the forth-coming DirecTV HD Tivo.


----------



## Adam1115

bwld123 said:


> go try and buy one.. if you go to tivo.com, go to shop, then DVR. The top one shows "out of stock". On BestBuy it says "backordered" which in my experience as an equity analyst, they do when a new model is about to come out


It shows the TiVo HD XL in stock for $499...


----------



## magnus

I don't think consumers have a choice here.... aren't they all a bunch of.... ????

The only choice is to not buy service from any of them (go OTA) or give your money to one of them.



Rainy Dave said:


> Why would you want to give any money to a bunch of "lying, manipulative, greedy, bastards..."?


----------



## Adam1115

The low end model is probably out of stock because of the TiVo Premiere coming out...


----------



## westham

bwld123 said:


> Now, Im not saying that a new DirecTV receiver w/TiVo is immenent, but this is interesting... The standalone HD TiVo (which sells for $250) is not availible to buy on either TiVo's own website which says its out of stock, or on BestBuy's website. Now.. im going to take a leap and say that much of the new technology that TiVo will put into their new standalone box will be shared with the DirecTV box... They have wound down inventory for a reason... its for a new box. I just hope that means the DirecTV box is right around the corner also!!!


Hi Everyone, I'm new to this BB:
I hope this TIVO box release is just around the corner, I just cancelled my order for the DTV HD box & HD upgrade, they charged my credit card $214.80 I cancelled when I decided I would again wait for TVO/DTV hookup.........DTV are greedy Bastards as they wanted a two year contract renewal.........my job is not that steady so I decided against it.........now they will only credit my account the $214.80 and not my credit card.........so it will take me until mid May to get my $'s back for equipment I cancelled and never got!!!

If the following is another thread I'm sorry for posting it here

I am having picture/sound break up (mainly on BBC America, A&E and sometimes CBS) I purchased the TIVO series 2 dvr in 2004........

I'm happy with everything when it works........does anyone think it's the TVO hard drive or something else??  I only have one TIVO the other TV is a regular DTV box which I don't watch so much........this also freezes up sometimes but I don't know if it's as often as the TIVO due to the amount of viewing hours involved.
Any advice would be most welcome.
Thanks, David aka Westham.


----------



## litzdog911

westham said:


> Hi Everyone, I'm new to this BB:
> I hope this TIVO box release is just around the corner, I just cancelled my order for the DTV HD box & HD upgrade, they charged my credit card $214.80 I cancelled when I decided I would again wait for TVO/DTV hookup.........DTV are greedy Bastards as they wanted a two year contract renewal.........my job is not that steady so I decided against it.........now they will only credit my account the $214.80 and not my credit card.........so it will take me until mid May to get my $'s back for equipment I cancelled and never got!!!
> 
> If the following is another thread I'm sorry for posting it here
> 
> I am having picture/sound break up (mainly on BBC America, A&E and sometimes CBS) I purchased the TIVO series 2 dvr in 2004........
> 
> I'm happy with everything when it works........does anyone think it's the TVO hard drive or something else??  I only have one TIVO the other TV is a regular DTV box which I don't watch so much........this also freezes up sometimes but I don't know if it's as often as the TIVO due to the amount of viewing hours involved.
> Any advice would be most welcome.
> Thanks, David aka Westham.


Welcome!

1. Don't hold your breath waiting for the new DirecTV HD Tivo. Best case is looking like end of this year.

2. Hard to say if your current Tivo's drive is dying. Probably best to start a new thread here with more details about that Tivo and any troubleshooting you've tried so far.

3. It's likely that the new HD Tivo will also carry a 2-yr contract commitment, unless DirecTV decides to make them available for full purchase.


----------



## T1V0

bwld123 said:


> go try and buy one.. if you go to tivo.com, go to shop, then DVR. The top one shows "out of stock". On BestBuy it says "backordered" which in my experience as an equity analyst, they do when a new model is about to come out


I hope your "professional" opinions make more sense than what you have posted here

the lack of inventory of SA tivo models has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with directv

why the hell would tivo stop producing boxes that work exclusively with cable/ota to produce/market boxes that exclusively work with satellite??

to purposely alienate customers?


----------



## nightrider

I'm still on my lifetime deal with my Series 2 DirecTV Tivo box. Once before they replaced the box for free when the old one broke. I wonder if they would allow me to transfer the lifetime service to a new HD box? if I have to start paying for DVR service I'd imagine that it would make more sense for me to switch to Comcast.


----------



## stevel

Your DirecTV DVR service is tied to the account, not the box. You can change hardware to your heart's content and not pay a DVR fee as long as your account stays open.


----------



## westham

litzdog911 said:


> Welcome!
> 
> 1. Don't hold your breath waiting for the new DirecTV HD Tivo. Best case is looking like end of this year.
> 
> 2. Hard to say if your current Tivo's drive is dying. Probably best to start a new thread here with more details about that Tivo and any troubleshooting you've tried so far.
> 
> 3. It's likely that the new HD Tivo will also carry a 2-yr contract commitment, unless DirecTV decides to make them available for full purchase.


Thanks for the reply litzdog, I will post in another thread when I get around to checking everything again..........that is if I still have the problem. Gotta get those Taxes sorted first!!!!!!!!
Cheers,
Westham


----------



## bwld123

T1V0 said:


> I hope your "professional" opinions make more sense than what you have posted here
> 
> the lack of inventory of SA tivo models has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with directv
> 
> why the hell would tivo stop producing boxes that work exclusively with cable/ota to produce/market boxes that exclusively work with satellite??
> 
> to purposely alienate customers?


Where in my quote did I say that stoping production on a standalone TiVo has anything to do with the DirecTV model?? If you took the time to read all my posts regarding this, what I did say is that I believed new TiVo's would be out SOON... and I was right. Now, does this mean that a new DirecTV TiVo will be announced also? NO! Does it make the likelyhood that the DirecTV TiVo will be out soon? YES


----------



## khooke

stevel said:


> Your DirecTV DVR service is tied to the account, not the box. You can change hardware to your heart's content and not pay a DVR fee as long as your account stays open.


Did this policy change at some point in the last few years? We have a lifetime subscription on our T60 DirecTivo (I think we're in year 8 at this point?!) and have been under the impression that this was (as it originally was when we bought it) a lifetime subscription to avoid paying the monthly Tivo subscription fee. When we originally bought it you didn't pay the $9.99 monthly fee (or what ever it was at the time) if you paid for the lifetime subscription.

At the time, we were also told by DirecTV that the lifetime subscription was tied to the DirecTivo box, and if we bought a new Tivo box even an identical replacement then we'd lose the lifetime subscription, and either have to start paying the monthly fee or pay for a new lifetime subscription for the new box.

Admittedly it's been several years now since we 'bought in' so I imagine there's been plenty of changes...


----------



## weaknees

Yes - this changed several years ago, for DirecTV boxes only.

Your hardware on someone else's account would no longer have lifetime service; their hardware on your account would be covered under the umbrella of having already paid the DVR fee for the entire account, in essence.


----------



## stevel

Changed November 2004. Any lifetime account at that time was converted to a DirecTV account lifetime status, not tied to hardware.


----------



## wscannell

It appears that the new Directv Tivo is due out in the first half of this year. If you go to TiVo products and search by input type, there is an announcement and a signup form for more information by email (when it is available). The direct link to this page is http://www.tivo.com/dvr-products/tivo-partners/tivo-directv/index.html

As would be expected, it will be sold by Directv.


----------



## ronsch

Isn't this the same signup page that was offered when there was first wind of this product and for which nobody has received a single email update? Or am I thinking of something else?


----------



## fasTLane

ronsch said:


> Isn't this the same signup page that was offered when there was first wind of this product and for which nobody has received a single email update?


Correct.


----------



## Rainy Dave

ronsch said:


> Isn't this the same signup page that was offered when there was first wind of this product and for which nobody has received a single email update? Or am I thinking of something else?


Yep, I signed up a while ago and haven't heard boo from TiVo or DirecTV.


----------



## litzdog911

wscannell said:


> It appears that the new Directv Tivo is due out in the first half of this year. .....


I wish. Rumors at last month's CES suggest end of 2010 or even early 2011 is more likely.


----------



## shibby191

Yea, that's the same sign up page Tivo has had up for a year and a half. LOL


----------



## Banana-Heads

All I know is my patience is wearing thin. I've been with Directv for 10 years. They said I'm eligible for two free unit upgrades and offered me their DVRs. I said no way as they are complete crap. I'm waiting for the new box. We had two HR10-250s. One went bad, now I'm using an old Phillips in the bedroom. It's getting to a point where this old hardware won't last much longer. 

If I didn't have lifetime Tivo and free lifetime HDTV, I would drop them but those two things are too good to lose. I mean, how long does it take to build a unit??? This is ridiculous!

On a side note, the retention dept. told me they are in the testing phase of the units. That they were almost released but something went wrong and the units had to go back to the bench.


----------



## John T Smith

>they are complete crap

I am now half-and-half DTivo (one each HR10-250 and RCA upgraded to 320Gig) and two DTV HR23-700

The HR23's are not, IMHO, crap... yes they are DIFFERENT, but they do work to record individual or season pass items

Wait if you want... but also realize that whatever new HD DTivo box comes out MAY have screens that don't look the same as the current DTivo boxes


----------



## Banana-Heads

*The HR23's are not, IMHO, crap... yes they are DIFFERENT, but they do work to record individual or season pass items*

I'm just going by the thousands of reviews and comments I've read, all of which were pretty negative. In addition, the retention rep told me that the DVR boxes would be discontinued some time after the new Tivo boxes come out. I'm sure it will be several years. but still. I don't want to get two free DVRs then have to pay for the new Tivos. But if it's going to be 2011, I may just not wait.


----------



## Adam1115

Banana-Heads said:


> *The HR23's are not, IMHO, crap... yes they are DIFFERENT, but they do work to record individual or season pass items*
> 
> I'm just going by the thousands of reviews and comments I've read, all of which were pretty negative. In addition, the retention rep told me that the DVR boxes would be discontinued some time after the new Tivo boxes come out. I'm sure it will be several years. but still. I don't want to get two free DVRs then have to pay for the new Tivos. But if it's going to be 2011, I may just not wait.


You're reading forums that only post complaints.

There are plenty of complaints about TiVo here, search for those to.

IMO the DirecTV box isn't as good as a TiVo, but it's far from crap.


----------



## Banana-Heads

Adam1115 said:


> You're reading forums that only post complaints.
> 
> There are plenty of complaints about TiVo here, search for those to.
> 
> IMO the DirecTV box isn't as good as a TiVo, but it's far from crap.


All I've owned is Tivo and I've never had a problem with it, except failure after so many years. Which is expected with any component from daily use.

No one seems to think the Directv's DVR is as good as Tivo's, so that's pretty much it. I really didn't sign up here to debate opinions about the pros and cons of each box. If you have a Directv DVR and like it, great. I'm just interested when the new unit is coming out.


----------



## bigpuma

Banana-Heads said:


> All I've owned is Tivo and I've never had a problem with it, except failure after so many years. Which is expected with any component from daily use.
> 
> No one seems to think the Directv's DVR is as good as Tivo's, so that's pretty much it. I really didn't sign up here to debate opinions about the pros and cons of each box. If you have a Directv DVR and like it, great. I'm just interested when the new unit is coming out.


Did you even read this thread? There certainly are people who think they are as good, some even think they are better. Personally I think the HR2x series is pretty good.


----------



## Rainy Dave

I think the HR2x series is great. I somewhat prefer it over the 2 DirecTiVos I also own.

PS. I wouldn't put much faith in what the retention reps say. Their job is to keep you with DirecTV.


----------



## samo

There are 9+ millions of DirecTV DVR users. All of them hate DirecTV DVRs?
If DirecTV DVRs were nothing but the problems, you would think that people would jump over to the cable and bought HD TiVos. The facts are that TiVo sold about 300K HD TiVos over the years and currently selling about 10K a month while lossing subs at the rate of 25K a month (and these numbers exclude DirecTivos)


----------



## innocentfreak

samo said:


> There are 9+ millions of DirecTV DVR users. All of them hate DirecTV DVRs?
> If DirecTV DVRs were nothing but the problems, you would think that people would jump over to the cable and bought HD TiVos. The facts are that TiVo sold about 300K HD TiVos over the years and currently selling about 10K a month while lossing subs at the rate of 25K a month (and these numbers exclude DirecTivos)


I wouldn't say all of them, but if you want HD and the Sunday Ticket you don't have a choice unless you just go without a DVR.


----------



## Wil

innocentfreak said:


> but if you want HD and the Sunday Ticket you don't have a choice unless you just go without a DVR.


 ... and when that capability is basically being held hostage, you pay the ransom.


----------



## shibby191

Banana-Heads said:


> All I've owned is Tivo and I've never had a problem with it, except failure after so many years. Which is expected with any component from daily use.
> 
> No one seems to think the Directv's DVR is as good as Tivo's, so that's pretty much it. I really didn't sign up here to debate opinions about the pros and cons of each box. If you have a Directv DVR and like it, great. I'm just interested when the new unit is coming out.


Check some other forums like DBSTalk or Satguys. Are there threads of problems? Sure, just like there are threads with problems in the Tivo threads here. But there are plenty of people that like the DirecTV DVRs just fine.

The key here is this: If you can't get over the fact it's not a Tivo and doesn't have the Tivo UI then you'll never be happy. But if you can let that go then the DirecTV DVR performs just fine. It records your programs and plays them back. I guess if you need something more that perhaps Tivo offers and DirecTV doesn't then maybe you'll be disappointed. But for it's core use, it's plenty fine and many prefer it over the Tivo UI. That doesn't make it "better". Also doesn't make Tivo "better". Just like some people think both are crap and the Dish DVR is the best.

Also, a lot of sentiment here is from the troubles the platform had 3-4 years ago that for the most part just don't exist anymore. It's very solid.


----------



## SullyND

shibby191 said:


> The key here is this: If you can't get over the fact it's not a Tivo and doesn't have the Tivo UI then you'll never be happy.


I'm holding out for an HD TiVo on DirecTV (Still using my SD DVRs). Have they added suggestions to the HR series recorders? Can you have more than 50 Series Links?


----------



## shibby191

Banana-Heads said:


> In addition, the retention rep told me that the DVR boxes would be discontinued some time after the new Tivo boxes come out. I'm sure it will be several years. but still. I don't want to get two free DVRs then have to pay for the new Tivos. But if it's going to be 2011, I may just not wait.


Well, your first mistake it listening to anything a CSR says and believing it. They don't know anything. Your best source of that info is forums like Satguys or DBSTalk or AVS.

Second, they aren't being discontinued. In fact they just released the H24 series which is their newest platform. And the home server project is also in testing and due out this year. I highly doubt they are going to discontinue a product that continues to roll out newer receivers and is central around everything they are building out. Plus 10+ million homes have one, be pretty dumb to drop the whole platform.

This new DirecTivo HD, IF it ever comes out, is a *premium* product which will cost more to get up front and cost an extra monthly fee. DirecTV is allowing Tivo to build it and is passing on all the extra costs. Sort of like "Ok Tivo, you say your best, show us what you got and we pass on the cost". So it's a no lose for DirecTV if it flops or even never ships.

Anyway, this has all be rehashed many times...


----------



## Adam1115

Banana-Heads said:


> All I've owned is Tivo and I've never had a problem with it, except failure after so many years. Which is expected with any component from daily use.


Yes, and a lot of people have never had a problem with the DirecTV DVR.


----------



## shibby191

SullyND said:


> I'm holding out for an HD TiVo on DirecTV (Still using my SD DVRs). Have they added suggestions to the HR series recorders? Can you have more than 50 Series Links?


Nope. So if those are more important then anything else for you then you won't be happy.


----------



## Banana-Heads

Well, now you all have got me thinking. I'm not married to the Tivo. I'm open to change. So you're saying that the Directv DVR is basically just as good? 

I did read that when you fast forward on the Directv DVR it doesn't roll back a few seconds when you stop like the Tivo does. I really like that feature.

I do miss getting HD and do not really want to wait any longer.


----------



## John T Smith

>fast forward on the Directv DVR it doesn't roll back a few seconds when you stop like the Tivo does

My two HR23 boxes both DO have that feature

Even my wife, tech challenged and who HATED the Comcast cable DVR we used for a year while building this house, is getting used to the different remote control and different UI

Again... the DTV DVR is different... we've only had ours since December so there may be things we haven't used, but for what we do (record individual programs or series) they work just as good as the two DTivo boxes we still have


----------



## fasTLane

Ready to check out the new Tivo from DirecTV.


----------



## Banana-Heads

*In fact they just released the H24 series which is their newest platform.*

That's available now? All I can find is that it won't be available till Spring 2010.


----------



## litzdog911

Banana-Heads said:


> *In fact they just released the H24 series which is their newest platform.*
> 
> That's available now? All I can find is that it won't be available till Spring 2010.


Just released. Should be shipping soon ....
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=173316


----------



## SullyND

litzdog911 said:


> Just released. Should be shipping soon ....
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=173316


Is that just the receiver (H24) or are the DVRs also shipping soon?


----------



## Adam1115

Banana-Heads said:


> Well, now you all have got me thinking. I'm not married to the Tivo. I'm open to change. So you're saying that the Directv DVR is basically just as good?
> 
> I did read that when you fast forward on the Directv DVR it doesn't roll back a few seconds when you stop like the Tivo does. I really like that feature.
> 
> I do miss getting HD and do not really want to wait any longer.


I don't think they are just as good. They are pretty good. I think it's worth it for the HD content.

Here's what I don't like about it-
1) 50 Series Link Limit (can be worked around by combining multiple shows in a auto record keyword)
2) Remote, the IR portion is not very powerful and struggles to turn things off that others don't.
3) It seems that nearly every button on the remote turns the TV to LIVE. Every time the thing gets bumped it goes out to live tv. Can be worked around with the "PREV" button.
4) Doesn't go to the same spot in the list, have to hunt down the show we were watching.
5) No Suggestions
6) Netflix on Playon sucks. No FF, menu isn't very good.
7) No kidzone like feature.



Banana-Heads said:


> *In fact they just released the H24 series which is their newest platform.*
> 
> That's available now? All I can find is that it won't be available till Spring 2010.


The H24 is not a DVR.


----------



## nrc

shibby191 said:


> This new DirecTivo HD, IF it ever comes out, is a *premium* product which will cost more to get up front and cost an extra monthly fee. DirecTV is allowing Tivo to build it and is passing on all the extra costs. Sort of like "Ok Tivo, you say your best, show us what you got and we pass on the cost". So it's a no lose for DirecTV if it flops or even never ships.
> 
> Anyway, this has all be rehashed many times...


I love that this bothers you so much that you can't even present the facts accurately. DirecTV hasn't just allowed TiVo to build a DVR, they've contracted them to do it and they're paying for the development. They don't recoup any of that until they start collecting subscription fees for the new box. So yes, they lose if it never ships or flops.

DirecTV has said that the TiVo box will be a premium product but they haven't said whether that means an increased subscriber fee, a higher up front cost, or both. The "substantially higher fee" that people so often cite is what DirecTV will pay to TiVo. How much of that will be passed on to the subscriber remains to be seen. You may already be paying for it with the substantial increase in their DVR fee that you started paying recently.


----------



## shibby191

nrc said:


> You may already be paying for it with the substantial increase in their DVR fee that you started paying recently.


Not me. I dropped DirecTV a while ago. 



> I love that this bothers you so much that you can't even present the facts accurately. DirecTV hasn't just allowed TiVo to build a DVR, they've contracted them to do it and they're paying for the development.


Sure they did, in reality. They renewed the support contract with Tivo and Tivo wanted to once again make a DirecTivo unit badly and finally gave the terms DirecTV wanted. Tivo can't make a box without DirecTV "letting" them. LOL

What is sad is how much Tivo has dropped the ball on this one. They initially said they would have a box out early 2009 and now a year later Tivo's market share keeps dropping. And the number of DirecTV's sub base that have HR2x's is growing out of this world, well over 50% of their subs have one, near 60% I believe from their last conference call. It's going to be very hard now for Tivo to make big inroads into that and it's gets harder every month they delay. Plus many die hard Tivo fans have already left for FIOS or other options. May be hard to pull that many back. Wouldn't have been as hard for them a year ago. Tivo has dug itself a hole on this one, hopefully they can get out of it as competition is good for all of us, even those without a Tivo or DirecTV in the house.


----------



## shibby191

Banana-Heads said:


> Well, now you all have got me thinking. I'm not married to the Tivo. I'm open to change. So you're saying that the Directv DVR is basically just as good?
> 
> I did read that when you fast forward on the Directv DVR it doesn't roll back a few seconds when you stop like the Tivo does. I really like that feature.
> 
> I do miss getting HD and do not really want to wait any longer.


FFW autocorrection is what you're referring to and it's been a feature of the DirecTV DVR for at least 2 years now, maybe 3.

And sure it's just as good, just depends on what you define "good" as. Both have advantage over the other and both have disadvantages. Just all depends what your priorities are. I'd suggest making a list of what your top features are in a DVR, in particular your Tivo and then see how that compares to the HR2x from DirecTV. Let's say the only big thing missing on your list is Suggestions. Then I guess you have to make a choice....are suggestions more important then HD channels? Or maybe MRV on the HR2x is a top feature you want, maybe that trumps suggestions. You get the idea.

I guess the question for you is this: Do you plan to stay with DirecTV no matter what. If a new HD DirecTivo is still a year away or never comes, will you stay with DirecTV.

If that answer is yes then I see no reason to not get at least one HR2x and at least enjoy all the HD goodness. DirecTV will most likely upgrade you for free. You can keep your old DirecTivo's active no problem. Give it a month or two, have an open mind that the menu's are different then Tivo and see what you think. Most likely you'd get a new 2 yr commitment to get one thus my question if you plan on staying with DirecTV anyway. If so then you have nothing to lose and never have. If you hate it then at least you can still watch all the HD channels and you can wait for the new Tivo box to come and get that (with a 2 yr commitment at that time). So hopefully the new Tivo box doesn't suck like the Comcast Tivo does.

If you might switch to another provider then your decision is a harder one. Some though will "buy you out" of your commitment because they are desperate. AT&T Uverse will give you $200-$300 cash back for example which you could use to buy out your DirecTV commitment.

Also sounds like you should head over to DBSTalk and do some research on the DirecTV DVRs. A lot has changed with them over the past 3-4 years.


----------



## samo

nrc said:


> You may already be paying for it with the substantial increase in their DVR fee that you started paying recently.


Are you calling $1/month substantial? DirecTV now charges $6.99/month for ALL of your DVRs. Cheapest DVR service rate compare to any provider, not just TiVo.


----------



## whitepelican

samo said:


> Are you calling $1/month substantial? DirecTV now charges $6.99/month


A 17% rate increase is substantial. It was only $5 a couple of years ago, so it's gone up 40% in the past few years.


----------



## Kablemodem

Can you imagine if it went from $.01 to $.02? That would be a 100% increase!


----------



## sven_kirk

whitepelican said:


> A 17% rate increase is substantial. It was only $5 a couple of years ago, so it's gone up 40% in the past few years.


I've got to agree with samo here. Only seven bucks for ENTIRE house dvr fee isn't that bad. I know, it is not the 'full' tivo experience (Netflix and such). But I have hacked and expanded my three SD Dtivos for MRV and music and I am very happy with it (and even if it was *gasp* unhacked).

IMO, the main reason they are raising the rates is the demand for it. They are the only supplier. It is there and people will pay it. I will... and gladly. I love my DTivo/DVR. Should it get too high, I'll cut it out (very doubtful).
But Tivo (the company) is dying. The reason you don't see any raises from Tivo is that they are starving for customers. Too much competition.

Prediction/Rant
As for the 'upcoming' Directv/Tivo. I'm not going to put up too much hope for it. It will probably be ready by late '*12*. Hardware is probably being built to run Directv DVR software or Tivo. With the standard DVR fee or the with the additional Tivo fee on top of that.


----------



## gmatthias25

So basically my DirecTV Tivo unit just died today, had it for about 7 years. =( We have two other basic dvr's from Directv. I read some of the posts on here, and agree they are crap. I couldn't tell you what models they are. I was on the tivo website and nearly wet my pants when I saw they renewed a contract, but I guess I have to wait it out until the end of the year it sounds. I surely hope not. Off to watch a DVD since I have nothing else...


----------



## nrc

shibby191 said:


> Not me. I dropped DirecTV a while ago.


Couldn't stand the DVR? 



> Sure they did, in reality. They renewed the support contract with Tivo and Tivo wanted to once again make a DirecTivo unit badly and finally gave the terms DirecTV wanted. Tivo can't make a box without DirecTV "letting" them. LOL


And it just happens that the terms DirecTV wanted were to pay for development, pay for promotion, and then pay TiVo higher fees going forward. That was mighty kind of them.

I'll give you credit, you stuck around and ate your crow while most of the DirecTV apologists slunk away to DBStalk where complaint threads get locked or deleted and TiVo talk is permitted in just one thread on the whole forum.



> What is sad is how much Tivo has dropped the ball on this one. They initially said they would have a box out early 2009 and now a year later Tivo's market share keeps dropping.


Again, you're just making things up. TiVo never said that the new DirecTV box would be out in early 2009. The original press release said it was expected in the second half of 2009.

Nobody outside of TiVo and DirecTV knows who is responsible for the delay right now. If the new TiVo shows up on HR23 generation hardware you can probably blame TiVo for the delay. If it shows up on HR24 generation hardware then the delay was likely because DirecTV chose the new generation hardware which hasn't been released yet.


----------



## Wil

nrc said:


> 'll give you credit, you stuck around and ate your crow while most of the DirecTV apologists slunk away to DBStalk where complaint threads get locked or deleted


Or, he's a composite character. Some of them, you know, have also disappeared from DBSTalk as well.


----------



## shibby191

nrc said:


> Couldn't stand the DVR?


LOL

AT&T Uverse actually. And I use their DVR. *gasp*, what will I do? 

Their DVR isn't bad. Not as good as Tivo or DirecTV.

But it's fast, records my programs and plays them back. So it's plenty fine for me. What more do I need? I guess people want their DVR to make them coffee in the morning or something. So long as it records Big Bang Theory and I can watch it later in the week I need nothing more.

Guess I'd be plenty happy with just about any DVR then.  That's why I laugh at all the crying and moaning sometimes. But that doesn't mean that others demand more and there is nothing wrong with that.


----------



## shibby191

gmatthias25 said:


> So basically my DirecTV Tivo unit just died today, had it for about 7 years. =( We have two other basic dvr's from Directv. I read some of the posts on here, and agree they are crap. I couldn't tell you what models they are. I was on the tivo website and nearly wet my pants when I saw they renewed a contract, but I guess I have to wait it out until the end of the year it sounds. I surely hope not. Off to watch a DVD since I have nothing else...


If your experience is only the old R15, the SD DVR that was the first to replace the DirecTivo then yes, those were and are crap. They were discontinued about 3 years ago. The current series is light years beyond that piece of poop.


----------



## SullyND

gmatthias25 said:


> So basically my DirecTV Tivo unit just died today, had it for about 7 years.


Odds are it just needs a new hard drive. You can replace them yourself (There are instructions all over) with a generic hard drive, or you can buy a replacement from a vendor such as DVRUpgrade.com


----------



## whitepelican

Kablemodem said:


> Can you imagine if it went from $.01 to $.02? That would be a 100% increase!


Exactly.


----------



## FrancesTheMute

shibby191 said:


> If your experience is only the old R15, the SD DVR that was the first to replace the DirecTivo then yes, those were and are crap. They were discontinued about 3 years ago. The current series is light years beyond that piece of poop.


yeah, I just moved to a new place, roommate has DirecTV so I got an HR-22 and so far it's not that bad. I do miss Tivo, but there are a few things I like better about the HR-22, like how the video stream keeps going when you go to the guide or your list of shows (although I guess the new UI in the Series4 has that feature now)


----------



## nrc

For anyone still thinking the new DirecTV TiVo unit will never happen, TiVoStephen is taking bets.


----------



## Wil

nrc said:


> For anyone still thinking the new DirecTV TiVo unit will never happen, TiVoStephen is taking bets.


It's in the process of becoming "doesn't matter." Quickly.


----------



## Gruggy

I ended up getting rid of DTV after seven years because my DVR39 finally got to the point where is was unusable (tuner 2 died). By the time the DTV branded Tivo comes out (if it comes out), it will have been a year too late for me. We ended up going with a refurbed Tivo HD and OTA programming. Other content is pulled off of the internet or Amazon.

As Wil pointed out, "It's in the process of becoming 'doesn't matter.' Quickly."


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## shibby191

I'd agree. I think it's still coming and in the works, how could it not. But it's so delayed at this point that as the previous two posters state, it's quickly becoming a "doesn't matter" situation. Most of the DirecTivo owners have already moved on to another pay TV provider or gotten the DirecTV DVR. Will a new HD DirecTivo sell? Sure. But not nearly the numbers it could have if delivered on time. With no mention of it yesterday end of the year or early 2011 is looking more and more the target date now. It's a shame.


----------



## marrone

I agree. It's almost becoming a "doesn't matter".

I'm thinking of leaving DirecTV sometime, especially if my wife forces me to go to HD. The DirecTivo is the only thing keeping me there right now.

I was considering Uverse, but it's not available yet in my area (despite it being advertised locally...go figure). Granted, I dunno how good the DVR is.

-Mike


----------



## Daniel

I read a quote from Rogers where he stated that the new DirecTiVo will NOT have the new HD UI. It will just have the SD interface with a few of the new features.


> The new platform won't be available to DirecTV Group Inc. (NYSE: DTV) subscribers, since the satellite TV giant uses an older version of TiVo software in its DVRs. But Rogers said TiVo is creating a new software for DirecTV DVRs that will add some new functions.
> 
> Their [DirecTVs] next implementation of us is not going to have this look and feel. Its based on the classic TiVo, he said.


Here is the full link: http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=188664&site=lr_cable&f_src=lightreading_gnews

If this is the case, I'm sorry to say that I'll probably be looking at the new distributed DirecTV box with the extenders. Of course, that one isn't out either...


----------



## shibby191

Daniel said:


> If this is the case, I'm sorry to say that I'll probably be looking at the new distributed DirecTV box with the extenders. Of course, that one isn't out either...


Check DBSTalk. The "externders", the H24 has a first look there, should be available really quick if not already. HR24 (the main system) is also real close it seems. I'd give less then a month on it from the hype going on.


----------



## Daniel

I thought that I read somewhere that the H24 was not the extender and that the HR24 was not the whole home server that we have been hearing about. But I have been know to be wrong on occasion...

I do hope that the HR24 is out soon. I've said before that I think that TiVo isn't allowed by the agreement with DirecTV to introduce their box before DirecTv come out with their new box. I think that the new TiVo box will come out shortly after DirecTV box and not before.

I also hope that the HR24 is the fabled whole home server box. I might decide to finally jump to the dark side...


----------



## shibby191

Daniel said:


> I thought that I read somewhere that the H24 was not the extender and that the HR24 was not the whole home server that we have been hearing about. But I have been know to be wrong on occasion...
> 
> I do hope that the HR24 is out soon. I've said before that I think that TiVo isn't allowed by the agreement with DirecTV to introduce their box before DirecTv come out with their new box. I think that the new TiVo box will come out shortly after DirecTV box and not before.
> 
> I also hope that the HR24 is the fabled whole home server box. I might decide to finally jump to the dark side...


Hard to say I guess. The 24s have DECA and everything all built in so it will use your existing coax to network and thus will have full MRV going. I'd imagine it will work similar to the Uverse boxes in that the HR24 is the main DVR that records everything and serves it up to the H24 boxes. This would be the typical home install anyway.

BUT maybe it's not the whole home server thing and just the next step to it? Don't know.


----------



## shibby191

Just read this over on DBSTalk, transcript from the DirecTV conference call today:



> - Will start rolling out MRV product and H24/HR24 boxes, the first step in whole home solution, in the next few weeks (about 15:45 into call)
> - Home Media Center, 1TB of harddrive space, cost to DirecTV not much more then the current HD DVR cost, no mention of end user cost


So looks like the H24/HR24's are indeed just the first step.


----------



## ronsch

shibby191 said:


> Just read this over on DBSTalk, transcript from the DirecTV conference call today:
> 
> So looks like the H24/HR24's are indeed just the first step.


:up: Sounds a lot more promising for core functionality improvements than the Premiere. Still loving my DSR6000.


----------



## NFL Ticket fan

Hello all,

I was an original DirecTivo customer that absolutely loved all that Tivo offered. I've been a loyal DirecTV subscriber for nearly 8 years and have had my ups and downs with them. As my user id suggests, it's really been the unequaled NFL coverage DirecTV offers that has kept me around.

When my original SD Tivo HR10 unit froze up on me about 4 years ago, I contacted DTV's customer service, who notified me that they no longer offered the Tivo equipped units (no mention of the relationship being severed). Refusing to settle for the generic dvr, the rep suggested I check at a few electronics stores to see if they had any of the DTivo units left.

I went to a couple of different stores, and that's when I learned (from a sales rep) Tivo and DirecTV had severed their relationship. At that time, I was so infatuated with Tivo that I refused to even consider a "generic" DirecTV dvr model. The sales rep suggested I try sites like eBay to find a new/used unit. To say I was a bit upset with DTV would be putting it mildly. After a long rant and conversation with DTV customer service, we agreed on a compensation package and I began to scour the internet for a replacement unit. It was then that I encountered many other loyal DTivo users in the same boat as me and still others that opted to go with the DTV unit and hated them. I found Weaknees and spent $100+ to purchase a refurbished DTivo model. Two years later, that unit also froze up and died. Again, I researched and read many horror stories about DTV dvr users that hated the units. So, I opted to have Weaknees repair the DTivo unit again.

Next, my tube TV went out on me so it was time to upgrade to hi-def. Still convinced DTV dvrs were total trash I opted to continue using my SD DTivo unit with my HD TV. The picture sucked. SD on an old TV is fine, but it looks horrible on an HD TV. After several months of this, I couldn't stand it any longer. Even though it had just been announced that Tivo was again planning to partner with DTV for a new HD unit, I had to bite the bullet and get the DTV HD DVR. 

At first, I was VERY skeptical of the new unit, especially since DTV wouldn't even guarantee which model I'd receive. Fortunately, I got the HR22. In nearly two years of usage, I'm very happy with it. It never freezes on me but does sometimes (not often) have a slight lag in the audio vs. the video. It has several features I actually prefer over the Tivo UI and I have it hooked up to my home network, via Linksys wireless-N gaming adapter. I can access music/pictures from my home PC, stream on-demand DTV content and I love the DTV apps feature that let me quickly view current temp/weather forecast and a slew of other cool features via the internet connection. I still have my old SD DTivo unit hooked up to my bedroom set, but I hardly miss it in the living room. Still, I'm anxious for the new unit and plan on purchasing one as soon as it's available.

I guess my point in this very long post is to show those of you who may be contemplating leaving DTV simply because of the delay in the new DTivo unit...well, the DirecTV dvr experience probably is not as bad as you fear. I was a DIEHARD Tivo enthusiast, but I am very happy with my HR22. I still love Tivo but the capabilities of the HR22 are so superior to the old HR10s, it's not even a fair comparison. 

I'm hopeful the new HD tivo-equipped, DirecTV unit will incorporate all of the latest HR22 functionality with the latest Tivo technology to make the best DVR experience I've ever encountered. Of course, I know there will be conflict-of-interest limitations like no netflix, amazon, etc. streaming options but, nevertheless, I remain hopeful the reunification will bring the best of both units into one.


----------



## DaveWhittle

NFL Ticket fan said:


> I guess my point in this very long post is to show those of you who may be contemplating leaving DTV simply because of the delay in the new DTivo unit...well, the DirecTV dvr experience probably is not as bad as you fear. I was a DIEHARD Tivo enthusiast, but I am very happy with my HR22. I still love Tivo but the capabilities of the HR22 are so superior to the old HR10s, it's not even a fair comparison.


I have an HR22... I can't wait to get rid of the thing. Oh, I like a couple things about it (the dual-tuner usage is_ really_ good), but the thing is a dog to operate. There are times I can't type in a channel because the system hangs, and other times fast-forwarding and rewinding isn't responsive at all. I've gone through 2 or 3 and they all operate the same. The HD DirecTivo was much faster. And simple things like navigating the menus just don't make sense to me.

It's cool you like the DirecTV box and I've heard others that like it too, but I just can't figure that out. I don't really want to leave DirecTV, but at the same time my bill has gone up so much in the last couple years that I don't know if I need it or not.

My main reason for getting the Premiere is a snappy UI/responsive control (I hope!), Netflix integration, and forward compatibility with future Tivo upgrades.


----------



## shibby191

DaveWhittle said:


> I have an HR22... I can't wait to get rid of the thing. Oh, I like a couple things about it (the dual-tuner usage is_ really_ good), but the thing is a dog to operate. There are times I can't type in a channel because the system hangs, and other times fast-forwarding and rewinding isn't responsive at all. I've gone through 2 or 3 and they all operate the same. The HD DirecTivo was much faster.


I had an HR20 and an HR21 and never had any speed issues. But I have read of some with the HR22's for whatever reason. If you can get an HR20 it will probably be a lot faster. Looks like the new HR24 due out in a month or so is all new hardware and chips and is much faster then even the HR20. Time will tell though. But, just as you post that your DirecTivo was much faster, there are other posts that state the opposite that they were dogs. So it really depends on who you talk to.



> And simple things like navigating the menus just don't make sense to me.


What's confusing? The menu's are pretty logical and everything is easy to get to. Post what you find confusing and perhaps we can help. Or post over on DBSTalk and see if the guys there can help. No sense living with confusion if it can be cured.


----------



## rumpleteazer

Maybe someone can just point me in the right direction here, but I have a question. Are the newer Tivo's hackable? I don't mean the rumored device from this thread, but the current Tivo models that exist. Maybe that's not even the right term anymore, but the primary reason that I've stuck with my SD DirecTivo's is because I have them hacked. I do know that the later DirecTivo models required a hardware hack, but I never knew if that was a DirecTV thing or a Tivo thing.

I suppose a lot of the reasons that I like the hacks probably don't apply any more. Networkability, MRV, Caller ID, Recover Deleted Files, EndPad... I think that all of those are in the current DirecTV boxes. There's one other reason which is more important that all of those (except MRV), and I'd really, really prefer not to be without that. But it might be worth it to me to keep an old SD receiver around just for that purpose.

Anyway, I was also under the impression that "real" Tivo's had the ability to add third-party apps. Basically anyone could develop software for them. Is that true? I assume that the current DirecTV HD DVR doesn't have anything like that.

Since I'm not married to the Tivo interface, and the newest model/software of DirecTV DVR seems to have (almost) everything I need, the only reason I'd wait (and wait and wait) for a new DirecTivo is if it could be hacked.


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## innocentfreak

No one knows on the new DirecTivo until it comes out.

On the TiVo HD it really depends on what you want to do. From the hacks I know of on the Directivo almost all are on current TiVo HD hardware as part of the features so no longer require a hack.


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## atc363

I called directv three weeks ago, and the consumer service person stated although the details were not firmed up, that he anticipated there would be in late spring a new tivo dvr and a separate new Hughes dvr. Then three days ago, after Tivo announced its new dvrs, e.g., the best buy units, I called directv and was informed by customer service that there was no expectation in the foreseeable future (at least the remainder of the year), that either Tivo or Directv itself was coming out with a new DVR. This could reflect (a) simply that I spoke to two different directv employees; or (b) that talks had broken down between Tivo and Directv regarding the terms of the cooperative release of dvrs. Then more recently we have the development of the appellate Federal Court of Appeals decision in the Tivo Dish patent litigation, which appeared to put the nails in the coffin of Dish's resistance to accepting the prior court's earlier decision that it had violated Tivo's dvr software patent. Perhaps the failure of Tivo and Directv to reach agreement to release a tivo dvr directv this month is simply a reflection of the same underlying tension between directv and tivo over patent rights that caused Tivo to go to court against dish?


----------



## bigpuma

atc363 said:


> I called directv three weeks ago, and the consumer service person stated although the details were not firmed up, that he anticipated there would be in late spring a new tivo dvr and a separate new Hughes dvr. Then three days ago, after Tivo announced its new dvrs, e.g., the best buy units, I called directv and was informed by customer service that there was no expectation in the foreseeable future (at least the remainder of the year), that either Tivo or Directv itself was coming out with a new DVR. This could reflect (a) simply that I spoke to two different directv employees; or (b) that talks had broken down between Tivo and Directv regarding the terms of the cooperative release of dvrs. Then more recently we have the development of the appellate Federal Court of Appeals decision in the Tivo Dish patent litigation, which appeared to put the nails in the coffin of Dish's resistance to accepting the prior court's earlier decision that it had violated Tivo's dvr software patent. Perhaps the failure of Tivo and Directv to reach agreement to release a tivo dvr directv this month is simply a reflection of the same underlying tension between directv and tivo over patent rights that caused Tivo to go to court against dish?


Your first mistake was listening to a CSR. They don't know anything for the most part and every CSR you talk to will give you a different answer because they don't know anything.

The DISH suit really makes no difference, DirecTV and TiVo already have an agreement.


----------



## stevel

All of the currently available DTiVos are hackable, though the R10 requires a PROM replacement. I expect that the new DTiVo will resist hacking.


----------



## atc363

bigpuma said:


> Your first mistake was listening to a CSR. They don't know anything for the most part and every CSR you talk to will give you a different answer because they don't know anything.
> 
> The DISH suit really makes no difference, DirecTV and TiVo already have an agreement.


Well, if you have a copy of the agreement, it would be appreciated if you would attach it, or point to where on the internet the document can be located. It would be interesting to see if the agreement has been updated, and whether it applies to the new technology evidenced in the new dvrs and whether there is wiggle room for either Tivo or Directv to balk when it comes to implementing the agreement, e.g., respecting the new dvr capability of getting youtube, hulu or other computer sources directly incorporated into the dvr, which would appear to run counter to directv's competitive position.


----------



## rumpleteazer

stevel said:


> All of the currently available DTiVos are hackable, though the R10 requires a PROM replacement. I expect that the new DTiVo will resist hacking.


Right. I was wondering about standalone cable ones.

I haven't been to Tivo's web site in a while, but I just went and it looks like you can buy software from them that lets you take recorded shows and put them on your iPod. That's something that I really want to be able to do.


----------



## shibby191

atc363 said:


> Well, if you have a copy of the agreement, it would be appreciated if you would attach it, or point to where on the internet the document can be located. It would be interesting to see if the agreement has been updated, and whether it applies to the new technology evidenced in the new dvrs and whether there is wiggle room for either Tivo or Directv to balk when it comes to implementing the agreement, e.g., respecting the new dvr capability of getting youtube, hulu or other computer sources directly incorporated into the dvr, which would appear to run counter to directv's competitive position.


DirecTV and Tivo renewed their "no sue" agreement when they reupped the support agreement back in 2008 and it runs thru near the end of this decade (about the time the Tivo patents run out). DirecTV also licenses Tivo technology (i.e. pays Tivo for it). Thus the Dish ruling has nothing to do with DirecTV and these issues have nothing to do with any delay in Tivo getting this out to market.


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## innocentfreak

rumpleteazer said:


> Right. I was wondering about standalone cable ones.
> 
> I haven't been to Tivo's web site in a while, but I just went and it looks like you can buy software from them that lets you take recorded shows and put them on your iPod. That's something that I really want to be able to do.


You don't even have to buy it. There are free programs like KMTTG on here that will do it for free.


----------



## nrc

atc363 said:


> Well, if you have a copy of the agreement, it would be appreciated if you would attach it, or point to where on the internet the document can be located. It would be interesting to see if the agreement has been updated, and whether it applies to the new technology evidenced in the new dvrs and whether there is wiggle room for either Tivo or Directv to balk when it comes to implementing the agreement, e.g., respecting the new dvr capability of getting youtube, hulu or other computer sources directly incorporated into the dvr, which would appear to run counter to directv's competitive position.


The amended agreement (it's an amendment to TiVo's existing agreement) was included in TiVo's Quarterly Filing of 10/8/09 as exhibit 10.7. Although it's heavily redacted you can see in section 2.12 (Acceptable Features) that it's very unlikely that any non-DirecTV content will be available.



> 2.12 Acceptable Features. Any feature, function or capability proposed for inclusion in any DIRECTV TE Receiver pursuant to Sections 2.10 or 2.11 above must, unless otherwise agreed by DIRECTV [*], (i) comply with DIRECTVs written requirements for content security (e.g., encryption, etc.); (ii) utilize solely DIRECTVs head end support, and provide all data and contact for services directly to DIRECTV (and not through TiVo); ...


----------



## rumpleteazer

innocentfreak said:


> You don't even have to buy it. There are free programs like KMTTG on here that will do it for free.


From what I understand, no such thing exists for the DirecTV DVR, right? This might be the one thing that keeps me on the hook waiting to upgrade to HD until the new DirecTivo comes out. And yes, I know I could be waiting a while.


----------



## FirePit

rumpleteazer said:


> From what I understand, no such thing exists for the DirecTV DVR, right? This might be the one thing that keeps me on the hook waiting to upgrade to HD until the new DirecTivo comes out. And yes, I know I could be waiting a while.


Put this in the "for what it's worth" category, but I was on the phone with a CSR yesterday, setting up a "new" R10 receiver to replace one that just died. At the end of the call he offered me a free DirecTV HD receiver or PVR. I politely declined and said that we were partial to Tivo, so we're patiently waiting for the new Tivo receiver. Then I added "but I know that might be a while." He responded with "actually, I heard earlier today that those will be available in May."

I didn't ask any more details and I'm not going to bank on it, but there is hope...


----------



## kevinwill1

FirePit said:


> Put this in the "for what it's worth" category, but I was on the phone with a CSR yesterday, setting up a "new" R10 receiver to replace one that just died. At the end of the call he offered me a free DirecTV HD receiver or PVR. I politely declined and said that we were partial to Tivo, so we're patiently waiting for the new Tivo receiver. Then I added "but I know that might be a while." He responded with "actually, I heard earlier today that those will be available in May."
> 
> I didn't ask any more details and I'm not going to bank on it, but there is hope...


This sure would be nice. I'm planning an exodus from Time Warner Cable soon, but I am very partial to the TiVo interface myself. The sooner DirecTV and TiVo can deliver on this box, the better.


----------



## HiDefGator

rumpleteazer said:


> From what I understand, no such thing exists for the DirecTV DVR, right? This might be the one thing that keeps me on the hook waiting to upgrade to HD until the new DirecTivo comes out. And yes, I know I could be waiting a while.


If it isn't available for the Directv DVR it may not be available for the new DirecTivo either. A real Tivo and a DirecTivo have never been the same thing.


----------



## kschauwe

I hope it's true. I just got the E-mail today about my Locals going off the 72.5&#186; bird and
needing new equipment.
I like to hold off long enough for the new HD Directivo if I can.


----------



## shibby191

kschauwe said:


> I hope it's true.


I don't see how it can be since the Tivo CEO himself just said a couple weeks ago that it was delayed and wouldn't be out until later in 2010. I guess technically May qualifies as "later" but let's look at the source here, another clueless CSR that doesn't know anything.


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## stevel

You will get whatever the installer has on the truck, which won't be a TiVo.


----------



## Wil

baddboy7772000 said:


> He put me on hold and did some research and came back on the phone to say that the Tivo/DTV are available


What your CSR was told while you were on hold is that the HR2x is "just like a Tivo" or "just as good as a Tivo" or "uses Tivo technology" so he came back on the line to tell you the good news that you were getting a Tivo. What you're going to get is an HR2x. Some people claim to like them. I don't know any such people personally but there're half a dozen of them who post relentlessly here to that effect.


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## litzdog911

baddboy7772000 said:


> ....
> 
> I bet ya'll that its either a refurb old TIVO/DTV box or more likly a HD DTV/DVR.


You won't get a Tivo DVR. You'll get a DirecTV DVR. There are no new HD Tivo DVRs, and won't be until later this year.


----------



## TonyD79

Hmmm. From everything I have heard, the new DirecTV Tivo will actually be a DirecTV box with Tivo software, so even if it were about to be released and you snuck in, I find it hard to believe that they are shipping a Tivo. It would be an HR2Xish with Tivo software. Maybe you are getting an HR24 and they plan to put the Tivo software on that box. Eventually.


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## stevecougar

Oh God I hope NOT!!
From a hardware/functionality standpoint Tivo equipment is the BEST around, bar none!
On the other hand ANY hardware, not to mention their software, menus, setup, and guide are total CRAP!!! This becomes immediately apparent if you have had Tivo equipment and then change to ANY Directv equipment!

I had Tivo with cable and loved my Tivo but HATED my cable provider (COX). I then switched to Directv and loved their programming and the digital picture but HATED their equipment!!! I still HATE my HR21 dvr on a daily basis.

So PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE give us Tivo manufactured hardware with Directv functionality!!!!!!!


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## litzdog911

stevecougar said:


> Oh God I hope NOT!!
> From a hardware/functionality standpoint Tivo equipment is the BEST around, bar none!
> On the other hand ANY hardware, not to mention their software, menus, setup, and guide are total CRAP!!! This becomes immediately apparent if you have had Tivo equipment and then change to ANY Directv equipment!
> 
> I had Tivo with cable and loved my Tivo but HATED my cable provider (COX). I then switched to Directv and loved their programming and the digital picture but HATED their equipment!!! I still HATE my HR21 dvr on a daily basis.
> 
> So PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE give us Tivo manufactured hardware with Directv functionality!!!!!!!


Well, that's not the plan. We don't know exactly what hardware platform Tivo is using, but it is supposedly a DirecTV specified platform. If it's the new HR24 platform, that's much speedier than the older HD DVR platform. Time will tell. Assuming the HD DirecTivo sees the light of day eventually.


----------



## shibby191

stevecougar said:


> Oh God I hope NOT!!
> From a hardware/functionality standpoint Tivo equipment is the BEST around, bar none!
> On the other hand ANY hardware, not to mention their software, menus, setup, and guide are total CRAP!!! This becomes immediately apparent if you have had Tivo equipment and then change to ANY Directv equipment!
> 
> I had Tivo with cable and loved my Tivo but HATED my cable provider (COX). I then switched to Directv and loved their programming and the digital picture but HATED their equipment!!! I still HATE my HR21 dvr on a daily basis.
> 
> So PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE give us Tivo manufactured hardware with Directv functionality!!!!!!!


I guess you must not know that the hardware of the DirecTV HR21/22/23 is the same as the Tivo HD. As in the exact same control chips and everything. 

This is what puzzles a lot of people since the hardware is the same you'd think Tivo could port their software over pretty quickly.


----------



## stevel

I also think that the HR24 and the TiVo Premiere are a lot alike, hardware-wise.


----------



## nrc

stevel said:


> I also think that the HR24 and the TiVo Premiere are a lot alike, hardware-wise.


Maybe, but according to this chart the Premiere is packing quite a bit more horsepower than the HR24.


----------



## falcon26

I'm beginning to think the new Directv Tivo is just a myth and nothing more. I'm almost certain call it a gut feeling that we wouldn't see it this year either...


----------



## HiDefGator

falcon26 said:


> I'm beginning to think the new Directv Tivo is just a myth and nothing more. I'm almost certain call it a gut feeling that we wouldn't see it this year either...


It may not be a myth but I'm not sure how you sell the older non-HD Tivo UI running on the brand new HR24 as a premium upgrade with a higher monthly fee than the house brand of software.


----------



## balboa dave

stevel said:


> I also think that the HR24 and the TiVo Premiere are a lot alike, hardware-wise.


They're not. TiVo Series 3 HD and the HR23 both used the same CPU, the Broadcom BCM7401, but the Premiere is using the BCM7413 and the HR24 is on the NXP CX24500. My personal guess is that this is why the DirecTV version has been delayed, because if, like I hope, it is based on the HR24 platform, it would have required lots of new coding for the drivers, and lots of new software for the MRV capabilities of DirecTV's new MOCA implementation. We're talking needing only one recorder (but there can be more) and getting multi-room streaming access to the contents over single line coax.


----------



## HiDefGator

wouldn't you expect Directv to annouce the HR24 and their native software for it before they start selling the new hardware with Tivo software on it? Since Directv isn't selling the HR24 yet you really can't blame Tivo yet for any delays. It may very well be the box itself isn't ready yet.


----------



## macgyver

falcon26 said:


> I'm beginning to think the new Directv Tivo is just a myth and nothing more. I'm almost certain call it a gut feeling that we wouldn't see it this year either...


I, for one, am about to give up.

I've been waiting for my HD DirecTV TiVo for a year now, and I have no confidence that I'm going to see it any time soon. I've decided to switch back to cable (Comcast in my area) and buy two TiVo Premiere boxes. It's a hell of a lot more expensive (since I'll have to pay for TiVo service on two boxes vs. my lifetime service on DirecTV), but at least I'll get the full TiVo experience as opposed to only those features DirecTV wants me to have.

Part of my motivation is also that wiring the extra two coax lines for the HD dish is going to be a royal pain at my house. However, at the end of the day I love TiVo a lot more than DirecTV and (luckily) I can afford the extra cash and this way at least that money goes to TiVo (who I really want to see succeed even though I'm skeptical that they will in the long run).

Looking forward to canceling my DirecTV subscription (once I have the cable setup working) and telling them why.


----------



## HiDefGator

macgyver said:


> Part of my motivation is also that wiring the extra two coax lines for the HD dish is going to be a royal pain at my house.


I don't believe two wires to eeach DVR are required any more. They have single wire something technical sounding now.


----------



## weaknees

macgyver said:


> Part of my motivation is also that wiring the extra two coax lines for the HD dish is going to be a royal pain at my house. However, at the end of the day I love TiVo a lot more than DirecTV and (luckily) I can afford the extra cash and this way at least that money goes to TiVo (who I really want to see succeed even though I'm skeptical that they will in the long run).


Not to try to persuade you to keep DirecTV, but we expect that these new units will use SWM technology, so there won't need to be any rewiring.

On the flip side, the Premiere interface looks to be so much better . . .


----------



## macgyver

weaknees said:


> Not to try to persuade you to keep DirecTV, but we expect that these new units will use SWM technology, so there won't need to be any rewiring.
> 
> On the flip side, the Premiere interface looks to be so much better . . .


Should have been more clear. I only have two coax lines going from the dish into my house, where the multiswitch is. The current HD-capable dish requires four coax cables from the dish to the multiswitch, yes?


----------



## weaknees

macgyver said:


> Should have been more clear. I only have two coax lines going from the dish into my house, where the multiswitch is. The current HD-capable dish requires four coax cables from the dish to the multiswitch, yes?


Yes, but the SWM can live outside. It accepts the four wires, and then only needs one wire going into the house. That one coax cable brings power from inside the house back out to the SWM, and also brings the eight tuners-worth of data from the switch to the receivers (up to four DVRs).

You can then split that one cable inside the house with a 1x4 SWM splitter, and run one leg to each of four DVRs.


----------



## fasTLane

macgyver said:


> Looking forward to canceling my DirecTV subscription (once I have the cable setup working) and telling them why.


:up:


----------



## macgyver

weaknees said:


> Yes, but the SWM can live outside. It accepts the four wires, and then only needs one wire going into the house. That one coax cable brings power from inside the house back out to the SWM, and also brings the eight tuners-worth of data from the switch to the receivers (up to four DVRs).
> 
> You can then split that one cable inside the house with a 1x4 SWM splitter, and run one leg to each of four DVRs.


Cool (but so complicated). I wonder if they'll start doing dishes that have those built in so that you could just have one coax heading in the house.

Well, that is food for thought, although since my primary motivator is still TiVo, I'll probably stick with plan A. But that would make it easier to wait IF I thought I was going to see a DirecTiVo any time soon.


----------



## weaknees

Yes, there are SWM dishes also. But even with the SWM8, you need only one line coming into the house.

We sell SWM dishes here:

http://www.weaknees.com/directv-dish.php


----------



## shibby191

macgyver said:


> Cool (but so complicated). I wonder if they'll start doing dishes that have those built in so that you could just have one coax heading in the house.
> 
> Well, that is food for thought, although since my primary motivator is still TiVo, I'll probably stick with plan A. But that would make it easier to wait IF I thought I was going to see a DirecTiVo any time soon.


Pretty much the standard dish install these days is a SWiM dish which has it all built in. Only one coax needed from dish into the house. Then to a standard cable splitter like you'd use for cable and you can run up to 8 tuners off that one cable.


----------



## shibby191

HiDefGator said:


> wouldn't you expect Directv to annouce the HR24 and their native software for it before they start selling the new hardware with Tivo software on it? Since Directv isn't selling the HR24 yet you really can't blame Tivo yet for any delays. It may very well be the box itself isn't ready yet.


That's only assuming that Tivo would put it on the HR24. Since Tivo originally made the announcement summer of 2008 and said it would be out early 2009 there is no way it could be on the HR24 hardware. So most likely it, originally at least, planned on the HR21/22/23 platform (which is the same hardware as the Tivo HD by the way). 
BUT Tivo delayed it over a year now and now says due out later this year.

Could be the delay was Tivo's decision to wait for the HR24 hardware to be released (shipping now by the way). Who knows. But honestly, why would Tivo risk so much to delay that long simply for the 24 hardware? Who knows.


----------



## Alienboy2

Directv HD DVR's suck !!


----------



## fasTLane

Alienboy2 said:


> Directv HD DVR's suck !!


----------



## macgyver

weaknees said:


> Yes, there are SWM dishes also. But even with the SWM8, you need only one line coming into the house.
> 
> We sell SWM dishes here:
> 
> http://www.weaknees.com/directv-dish.php


Sweet. Now if only I had that DirecTiVo to connect to it. It is food for thought, tho...


----------



## HiDefGator

Alienboy2 said:


> Directv HD DVR's suck !!


so how do you feel about Tivo software running on Directv hardware?


----------



## SullyND

HiDefGator said:


> so how do you feel about Tivo software running on Directv hardware?


My HDVR2 is awesome.


----------



## kschauwe

shibby191 said:


> Could be the delay was Tivo's decision to wait for the HR24 hardware to be released (shipping now by the way). Who knows. But honestly, why would Tivo risk so much to delay that long simply for the 24 hardware? Who knows.


Maybe the Tivo software will be a download to installed HR24's in the field.


----------



## nrc

shibby191 said:


> Since Tivo originally made the announcement summer of 2008 and said it would be out early 2009 there is no way it could be on the HR24 hardware. So most likely it, originally at least, planned on the HR21/22/23 platform (which is the same hardware as the Tivo HD by the way).


You keep saying this and I keep correcting you. TiVo never said that the DTV box would be out "early 2009". The very first press release said, "TiVo will develop the new HD DVR for an expected launch in the *second half of 2009*."

The choice for the platform likely wasn't final until April 2009 when the Statement of Work for the project was completed.


----------



## samo

What does it matter if new DirecTivo is late by one year or more? It will be sold and advertised as premium DVR. It is very unlikely it will be ported to the slower old and perhaps discontinued model.


----------



## HiDefGator

samo said:


> What does it matter if new DirecTivo is late by one year or more? It will be sold and advertised as premium DVR. It is very unlikely it will be ported to the slower old and perhaps discontinued model.


Yet they say it will have the old Tivo non-HD UI on it. How do they sell it as a premium DVR when it can't do the menu in HD?


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## Kablemodem

HD menus are not a big deal.


----------



## litzdog911

HiDefGator said:


> Yet they say it will have the old Tivo non-HD UI on it. How do they sell it as a premium DVR when it can't do the menu in HD?


Where did you see that?


----------



## Daniel

litzdog911 said:


> Where did you see that?


Two pages ago in this same thread: http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7807350#post7807350


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## shibby191

Tivo CEO says it will be the "classic" GUI. HiDefGator, I think we all wonder how they think they can sell this as a premium DVR at more cost. The market has already spoken for years now that people won't pay more for a "real" Tivo so why does Tivo think they can continue to try? Who knows.


----------



## fasTLane

Kablemodem said:


> HD menus are not a big deal.


At this house we tend to watch the programming more than the GUI.


----------



## HiDefGator

fasTLane said:


> At this house we tend to watch the programming more than the GUI.


Thankfully Tivo went ahead and updated the GUI on the new Premier anyway. Someone at Tivo must have thought it important.


----------



## Harkes

I am brand new to the forum.

I have been with Direct TV since 2004. I have two older Direct TV TIVO's boxes. I have been holding off getting HD with Direct TV because of the announcement of the new TIVO box last year. As everyone else, I have been waiting for too long.

I had great hope when I saw all the news about the stand alone TIVO Premiere being released, thinking the DirecTIVO couldn't be far behind.

I am a soccer guy and I need to have HD before this summer's world cup. Does anyone have any indication that this DirecTIVO will be released in time for me to have it installed by mid-June?

I am getting sick of Direct-TV. They act like a Bank. They will charge you for anything they can get away with. Only if there were a programming credit union I could switch to.

Thank you for any information you can provide.


----------



## stevel

The indication we have is that the new DirecTV TiVo will NOT be released by June. But if you think DirecTV charges you for "anything they can get away with", you must not have looked at cable recently.


----------



## shibby191

Harkes said:


> I had great hope when I saw all the news about the stand alone TIVO Premiere being released, thinking the DirecTIVO couldn't be far behind.


It's been posted before but you must have missed it. The only date that has been given is the Tivo CEO announced that it was delayed (again) until "later this year" indicating 2nd half of the year most likely. Tivo keeps delaying it for some reason we don't know.


----------



## SullyND

shibby191 said:


> Tivo keeps delaying it for some reason we don't know.


Along with not knowing the reason, we do not know if it is TiVo or DirecTV (or both) that is responsible for the delay.


----------



## shibby191

SullyND said:


> Along with not knowing the reason, we do not know if it is TiVo or DirecTV (or both) that is responsible for the delay.


True. The delay I can see on the DirecTV side is if they wanted Tivo to wait for the HR24 hardware and put the new Tivo box on that hardware vs. the HR21/22/23 hardware. Another DirecTV delay could also be that Tivo delivered something that DirecTV wasn't happy with and told them to go back and reprogram something. Otherwise the delay is most likely on Tivo's side, too little resources spread too thin type of thing.

But who really know and in the end it doesn't matter. Fact is that it's delayed again and the people that know why or when aren't talking.


----------



## dtv_guy

Just joined the forum. I inherited a Phillips back several years and really like it. Now I may get a TiVo HD receiver for free from another estate. What Luck!!

We left DirecTV 5 months ago because the retention folks didn't do their job. Went to Dish and hated it from day 1. The DVR service there is incredibly bad and the list of things not to like is huge. Makes the DirecTV vs. TiVo stuff I read here seem like comparing gold to platinum. Charlie Ergen needs to wake up and just license the patents from TiVo. The only thing to like in the Dish offering is the multi-room RF modulated outputs so you can watch in SD in any room in the house where you have run a cable.

We just came back last week and got a HD DVR and HD receiver. They tell me it is supposed to do the remote watching thing when it goes live perhaps in May or June. We like it so far but miss the TiVo interface. The H24/HR24 must not be shipping yet since we got an H23 and HR23.

Now for my perspective on the new HD DirecTV TiVo. One of the very latest posts indicates that the H24 uses the CX24500 and TiVo Premium uses Broadcom. I still know folks who work at NXP (formerly Conexant and now Trident Microsystems) and their software was very late getting to full functionality. The basic stuff including the silicon has been working for years and very well, but the magic to make DVR and other high end functions has been a long time coming and has just recently been truly finished (if I heard correctly). That could very easily explain why the TiVo project has taken so long.


----------



## HiDefGator

dtv_guy said:


> They tell me it is supposed to do the remote watching thing when it goes live perhaps in May or June. We like it so far but miss the TiVo interface. The H24/HR24 must not be shipping yet since we got an H23 and HR23.


The remote watching thing is already there. You just need to go in the menu and turn it on.

They are not junking the old DVR's. So long after the HR24 starts shipping (many have already gotten one) you may still get handed a HR20, HR23, etc. Only way to make sure you get a 24 is to buy it new yourself.


----------



## smcpartlin

The Biz installer for the Chicagoland area is bugging the heck out of us to replace our HD Tivo's with the new non-Tivo DVR's. I told them no. I don't care if they offer us free dishes and receivers... we don't want anything but a Tivo or a cablecard to plug into a Tivo.

They called "Senior upper management" *whatever that means* and were told that no Tivo unit is planned for release any-time soon. 

So I don't know what to say.

My guess? Tivo units require DirecTV to share money with someone else and they don't want to do it. THey would rather you use crap and they get to put money in their pocket for nothing. If I was a stock holder I would be happy.

I also figure they are rushing to convert everyone to mpeg-4 so they can push more channels over the same space... Or something like that...

So I think we can see a clock ticking before the old boxes (all of em') get turned off.... the question that's left is if enough Tivo users hold out to force them to offer Tivo. If the answer is no... then Tivo will never surface. No matter how many of you people say "Oh I would buy that." They don't care. They want profits.


----------



## JimParks

smcpartlin said:


> ...... They don't care. They want profits.


Profit is what it is all about. They know if they don't do TiVo they will lose a few customers, but doing TiVo will cost them more than they will gain by keeping those few customers...So bottom line, at the end of the day, they will have more money in the bank by not doing TiVo.


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## stevel

The key phrase is "any-time soon". I believe it will happen - eventually. But months away, not "soon".


----------



## shibby191

smcpartlin said:


> The Biz installer for the Chicagoland area is bugging the heck out of us to replace our HD Tivo's with the new non-Tivo DVR's. I told them no. I don't care if they offer us free dishes and receivers... we don't want anything but a Tivo or a cablecard to plug into a Tivo.
> 
> They called "Senior upper management" *whatever that means* and were told that no Tivo unit is planned for release any-time soon.
> 
> So I don't know what to say.
> 
> My guess? Tivo units require DirecTV to share money with someone else and they don't want to do it. THey would rather you use crap and they get to put money in their pocket for nothing. If I was a stock holder I would be happy.
> 
> I also figure they are rushing to convert everyone to mpeg-4 so they can push more channels over the same space... Or something like that...
> 
> So I think we can see a clock ticking before the old boxes (all of em') get turned off.... the question that's left is if enough Tivo users hold out to force them to offer Tivo. If the answer is no... then Tivo will never surface. No matter how many of you people say "Oh I would buy that." They don't care. They want profits.


HUH? What are you talking about. DirecTV and Tivo are developing a new box. But it's been delayed a couple times.

The MPEG4 conversion plans started over 6 years ago. It was the only way they can carry as many HD channels as they can. Dish is doing the same conversion to MPEG4. It's just that the old DirecTivo units can't do MPEG4. Then they had a "falling out" but in 2008 announced plans for a new box. Nobody knows why Tivo keeps delaying but frankly it's not unexpected, Tivo almost never delivers a product on time anyway. 

Latest official word from the Tivo CEO is "later this year". Assuming it doesn't get delayed again.

And no, there aren't that many "Tivo hold outs". Last estimate I read was maybe 50K HR10's left in service. Compared to 19 million total customers. Obviously not that much.


----------



## Wil

shibby191 said:


> Nobody knows why Tivo keeps delaying


There you go again.

When challenged, you come back and admit "we don't know whether it's Tivo or DirecTV that's delaying" but then you go back to your standard anti-Tivo mantra.


----------



## shibby191

Wil said:


> There you go again.
> 
> When challenged, you come back and admit "we don't know whether it's Tivo or DirecTV that's delaying" but then you go back to your standard anti-Tivo mantra.


Hey, if you think DirecTV is telling Tivo to delay it then go right ahead. I think all signs point to Tivo delaying....again as they do with all their products. History tells us that Tivo has overpromised and underdelivered....again. I'd give that at least an 85% to 90% chance.

But hey, everyone knows it's just an opinion...do I and everyone else with an opinion have to write a 5 paragraph disclaimer on their posts?

* This post is the expressed written opinion of shibby191, anonymous Internet poster with no inside knowledge of the situation. This post may include forward looking statements which should not be used for investing purposes. shibby191 has neither Tivo or DirecTV service currently and does not subscribe to competing services such as Dish or cable. shibby191 first got a Tivo in the year 2000 and had at least half a dozen units up thru the end of the decade. During that same time shibby191 also had DirecTV service and used the DirecTV DVRs. shibby191 has no first hand experience with any competing DVRs other then Windows Media Center and Uverse DVR along with passing knowledge of the Dish DVR. shibby191's posts cannot be rebroadcast without written consent of the National Football League.


----------



## CuriousMark

Now that's more like it! 

Me, I just use IMHO to remind people it is only an opinion.

There may be good reasons for the delays, but I doubt we will ever truly know what they are. 

My guess is that some of the earlier delays were caused by marketing folk not allowing for the time to set up the subcontract and hammer out a statement of work followed by possible delays getting the hardware or deciding which hardware to use. After that I would guess that more current delays are due to TiVo having trouble writing for the hardware, or having had staff pulled off to work the premiere.

Take those with a grain of salt, I know even less than shibby191 does.

Insert copy of disclaimer here. "IMHO"


----------



## HiDefGator

shibby191 said:


> That's only assuming that Tivo would put it on the HR24. Since Tivo originally made the announcement summer of 2008 and said it would be out early 2009 there is no way it could be on the HR24 hardware. So most likely it, originally at least, planned on the HR21/22/23 platform (which is the same hardware as the Tivo HD by the way).
> BUT Tivo delayed it over a year now and now says due out later this year.
> 
> Could be the delay was Tivo's decision to wait for the HR24 hardware to be released (shipping now by the way). Who knows. But honestly, why would Tivo risk so much to delay that long simply for the 24 hardware? Who knows.


In the beginning, when they first made the annoucement, they said, " we are developing a version fo the tivo software for a new platform being created at Directv." Never ever have they said it would run on existing DVR's.


----------



## shibby191

HiDefGator said:


> In the beginning, when they first made the annoucement, they said, " we are developing a version fo the tivo software for a new platform being created at Directv." Never ever have they said it would run on existing DVR's.


And I don't believe Tivo software will every run on existing DVRs in the field. And this is *not* just my opinion  since in SEC filings Tivo has stated that this new DirecTivo will have a special "Tivo" front bezel that will at the least have the Tivo guy on it.

Thus this would mean that the new DirecTivo would only be available as a new box specifically for Tivo. So basically you take HR23's (or HR24s or whatever) off the line and put a Tivo bezel on it and load Tivo software on it. Makes the most sense based on the info we have that DirecTV would provide the hardware/networked platform for it to be build on. But hey, it would be an all new Tivo only hardware design for all we know.


----------



## plazman30

Alienboy2 said:


> Directv HD DVR's suck !!


The DirectTV DVR software is light years ahead of Comcast's software. When are we going to get our new HD Tivo DVRs. Q1 2010 ends today. Another dealine missed.

Andy


----------



## HiDefGator

shibby191 said:


> Thus this would mean that the new DirecTivo would only be available as a new box specifically for Tivo. So basically you take HR23's (or HR24s or whatever) off the line and put a Tivo bezel on it and load Tivo software on it.


I think it will get different firmware as well. Since the current firmware boots Directv software if you stick in a blank drive. I suspect that may be the biggest difference between a regular HR24 and a DirecTivo HR24. And the peanut remote.


----------



## shibby191

HiDefGator said:


> I think it will get different firmware as well. Since the current firmware boots Directv software if you stick in a blank drive. I suspect that may be the biggest difference between a regular HR24 and a DirecTivo HR24. And the peanut remote.


Yea, that's what I mean. Take an HR24 (or HR22/23) but put Tivo on it (and whatever firmware comes with a Tivo OS) instead of the DirecTV DVR+ OS on it. Kinda like a PC that can have either Windows or Linux on it. Exact same hardware, just different OS running the show.

If I had to guess the #1 reason for the delay is Tivo is having trouble integrating in the DirecTV interactive and networking features which is required to be there.


----------



## balboa dave

I think y'all need to read this, TiVo's 10K filing with the SEC.



> We have agreed to work with DIRECTV to develop a version of the TiVo service for DIRECTV's broadband-enabled HD DVR platform which TiVo is working with DIRECTV with the intention to deploy this product to consumers *later this year*.


and



> DIRECTV will not deploy new TiVo boxes prior to the launch of the new HD DIRECTV DVRs with TiVo service.


----------



## balboa dave

I'm not saying TiVo has their part of the deal ready to go, but it's clear DirecTV is calling the shots.


----------



## shibby191

> We have agreed to work with DIRECTV to develop a version of the TiVo service for DIRECTV's broadband-enabled HD DVR platform which TiVo is working with DIRECTV with the intention to deploy this product to consumers *later this year*.


This we already knew, Tivo CEO said so a couple months ago. Nothing new there.



> DIRECTV will not deploy new TiVo boxes prior to the launch of the new HD DIRECTV DVRs with TiVo service.


Correct. DirecTV is not allowed to deploy any new Tivo boxes (HR10s, SD DirecTivos, etc.) until the new HD DirecTivos are launched. This statement (which they explain in the 10K) to investors is telling them that Tivo subscriber numbers will continue to go down because Tivo is not allowed to deploy any Tivo boxes until the new HD DirecTivo launches. As they explain in this statement:



> Although we are working with DIRECTV to develop a new high-definition DVR with TiVo for DIRECTV for launch in the future, DIRECTV does not currently have the right to manufacture and distribute TiVo DVRs to DIRECTV subscribers. As a result of this and DIRECTV's support of a competing DVR we expect the number of our DIRECTV with TiVo subscriptions to continue to decrease in the future. As a consequence of the loss of these future revenues from these DIRECTV subscribers with TiVo service subscriptions, our business may be harmed.


Nothing new either, it's been in every 10K filing for the past few quarters. Just alerting investors that the bleeding will continue.


----------



## shibby191

This is an interesting statement



> DIRECTV is the largest provider of satellite television in the U.S. We have had a longstanding relationship with DIRECTV from 1999 to the present to provide the TiVo service to its customer base. As of January 31, 2010, DIRECTV represents a significant portion of our *1.1 million* MSO/Broadcaster subscriptions.


Frankly I am surpised that it's this low. So all total, including SD boxes, DirecTivos are probably no more then say 900K now. That is quite a bit lower then I expected. If Tivo delays another year there won't be all that many subs left to "save".


----------



## HiDefGator

shibby191 said:


> This is an interesting statement
> 
> Frankly I am surpised that it's this low. So all total, including SD boxes, DirecTivos are probably no more then say 900K now. That is quite a bit lower then I expected. If Tivo delays another year there won't be all that many subs left to "save".


the scary part is many of those remaning subs already have a directv hd dvr as well.


----------



## fasTLane

HiDefGator said:


> the scary part is many of those remaning subs already have a directv hd dvr as well.


Pleased to say this household is not in that group.


----------



## HiDefGator

fasTLane said:


> Pleased to say this household is not in that group.


good for you. keep fighting the good fight. i'm glad someone doesn't mind watching standard definition TV on 7 year old technology rather than go over to the dark side with its flashy HD and mrv.


----------



## shibby191

HiDefGator said:


> good for you. keep fighting the good fight. i'm glad someone doesn't mind watching standard definition TV on 7 year old technology rather than go over to the dark side with its flashy HD and mrv.


Ya know, that is something I've never understood either. I get that someone loves Tivo to death. But if you're going to stay with DirecTV anyway why deny yourself all those HD channels? Just to prove a point to yourself? Get an HR2x and use both. Heck, if you got one in the first year of release you'd be out (or nearly out) of the 2 year commitment by now too.


----------



## tootal2

innocentfreak said:


> Yeah but it is even worse here in Florida due to the taxes on satellite services. I think my average tax on every Directv bill is $15.00 so my monthly directv bill is 150.00 just for the top package without HD or anything extra.


150.00 a month for directv? i thought paying 105.00 a month for cable was bad.


----------



## HiDefGator

tootal2 said:


> 150.00 a month for directv? i thought paying 105.00 a month for cable was bad.


I think it depends on what you call the "top package". I have HD, 4 HD DVR's, SHO, HBO, locals, and my bill has never been that high. And I'm in Florida as well.

But to get my cable company to give me 4 HD DVR's the monthly bill would be through the roof.


----------



## thorby

> if you're going to stay with DirecTV anyway why deny yourself all those HD channels?


Because you don't have an HD TV yet? I've got all the components of a new, HD system (TV, home theater receiver, blu-ray player) sitting in my Amazon shopping cart "saved for later" -- just waiting for the HD DirecTivo to come out. Until then the series 2 and SD is good enuff.


----------



## SullyND

shibby191 said:


> Ya know, that is something I've never understood either. I get that someone loves Tivo to death. But if you're going to stay with DirecTV anyway why deny yourself all those HD channels?


Because of the commitment. I'm out of commitment and am waiting to see what the DirecTiVo is like. If it doesn't come out within the next 6-8 months I'll ditch DirecTV and move to Cable.


----------



## bigpuma

SullyND said:


> Because of the commitment. I'm out of commitment and am waiting to see what the DirecTiVo is like. If it doesn't come out within the next 6-8 months I'll ditch DirecTV and move to Cable.


This is what I don't understand about people with an HR10. I got a free upgrade 3 1/2 years ago to the HR20 and I still have my HR10. You could have been using both all this time and still been out of commitment now while enjoying many more HD channels the last 3 1/2 years and if you didn't like the HR20 you could have deactivated it if it wasn't worth the extra $5/month.


----------



## SullyND

bigpuma said:


> You could have been using both all this time and still been out of commitment now while enjoying many more HD channels the last 3 1/2 years


My first and only HD TV is just over a year old.


----------



## tootal2

SullyND said:


> My first and only HD TV is just over a year old.


My first hdtv is 6 years old and weighs 300 pounds.


----------



## Arcady

My first HDTV is probably in a landfill somewhere, with a bunch of DirecTV receivers.

I went to cable after the Series3 came out. I would consider coming back if they had TiVo again.


----------



## fasTLane

I have a secondary Directv SD unit that begs to reside in a landfill.


----------



## ronsch

thorby said:


> Because you don't have an HD TV yet? I've got all the components of a new, HD system (TV, home theater receiver, blu-ray player) sitting in my Amazon shopping cart "saved for later" -- just waiting for the HD DirecTivo to come out. Until then the series 2 and SD is good enuff.


+1


----------



## ronsch

fasTLane said:


> Pleased to say this household is not in that group.


+1


----------



## ronsch

tootal2 said:


> 150.00 a month for directv? i thought paying 105.00 a month for cable was bad.


My last one was also close to $150. $115 for Premier monthly, a dvr fee and two additional receivers, and $17.38 in taxes.


----------



## SullyND

Arcady said:


> My first HDTV is probably in a landfill somewhere, with a bunch of DirecTV receivers.


Yeah, I'm not terribly impressed with HDTV. Only reason I got one was I needed a new TV and it is what was available.


----------



## Matt L

thorby said:


> Because you don't have an HD TV yet? I've got all the components of a new, HD system (TV, home theater receiver, blu-ray player) sitting in my Amazon shopping cart "saved for later" -- just waiting for the HD DirecTivo to come out. Until then the series 2 and SD is good enuff.


Wow!

With all the content out there, Blu Ray, Netflix Streaming HD, OTA HD you're waiting for a TiVo box??? Kinda exemplifies the old saying about cutting your nose off to spite your face. If that is the only reason you are waiting you have no idea what you are missing.

Seriously, by time the D HD TiVo comes out all the stuff in your basket will be discontinued....


----------



## Kablemodem

I believe that DirecTV now requires you to pay a 100&#37; non refundable deposit when you get a new receiver. I would hate to pay that money for a DVR I don't really want and then have to pay more money when the TiVo becomes available.


----------



## HiDefGator

Kablemodem said:


> I believe that DirecTV now requires you to pay a 100% non refundable deposit when you get a new receiver. I would hate to pay that money for a DVR I don't really want and then have to pay more money when the TiVo becomes available.


The non refundable deposit on my last new DVR was only $99.


----------



## Kablemodem

That's not so bad, but it is ridiculous in principle. I'm sure the TiVos will cost more than that.


----------



## StorkInSJ

Hey- 
Life with HD equipment and an SD DirecTV Series 2 tivo is pretty good. My Onkyo SR875 receiver does a great job upsampling to the Mitsu HC4900 HD projector for the tivo; blue ray player and Mac laptop do great job for everything else in high definition.

I'm thinking of just ditching DirecTV and doing the tivo premiere. It has 3 kinds of on demand and I can use iTunes for the rest. Who needs cable/satellite?

For all the TV watching I do, it's cheaper to pay 3 bucks a show then fork out the money for the cable subscription.

Of course they better have that tivo ready in time for football season '10


----------



## fasTLane

StorkInSJ said:


> Who needs cable/satellite?


I am starting to think the same way.

Directv's idea of pulling HD from a product that was sold touting it's HD sat capability has not endeared me in the least.


----------



## ronsch

Matt L said:


> Wow!
> 
> With all the content out there, Blu Ray, Netflix Streaming HD, OTA HD you're waiting for a TiVo box??? Kinda exemplifies the old saying about cutting your nose off to spite your face. If that is the only reason you are waiting you have no idea what you are missing.
> 
> Seriously, by time the D HD TiVo comes out all the stuff in your basket will be discontinued....


It also doesn't hurt that the price of all HD components has dropped considerably since the early adopters bought theirs. By the time the HD Directivo finally comes out the rest of the components will be affordable.


----------



## shibby191

StorkInSJ said:


> Who needs cable/satellite?


Not me. I dumped all pay TV months ago. I don't miss it all other them some live sports. But for the money I save I can afford to go to the bar once in a while. 

Between OTA HD, Netflix Bluray/DVD, and various streaming via Netflix, Hulu, Boxee, ESPN 360 and others all in a HTPC I get 99% I did with DirecTV for just the cost of Netflix, everything is free. No Tivo sub either.

It may be harder to do if you have kids, but for the amount of money we save my wife is loving it, even if she has to wait a bit for the disk on a couple of her shows.


----------



## atc363

HiDefGator said:


> The non refundable deposit on my last new DVR was only $99.


If not mistaken, Directv only leases receivers to its customers at the present time. As a long term Directv customer, it has been a problem getting them in recent times to recognize that I OWN my Tivo units and that I do not have to pay lease fees and mirroring fees (as a former Primestar customer).

As to the issue of when Directv may finally issue a Tivo HD DVR, I spoke to technical support the other day, and was told initially that Directv and Tivo had not been able to reach a agreement, and then the statement was rephrased to indicate that an underlying agreement had been reached, and that Directv and Tivo had entered the phase of finalizing the tech going in the box. So the impression I got is that release of a Tivo unit would be closer to June than the end of the year.

Nevertheless, I would agree with the point of view that ultimately it is not Tivo delaying implementation of the Tivo HD unit, where only Tivo is suffering by the loss of its subscription base. By attrition, Directv is succeeding in getting its customers to get Directv HD boxes.


----------



## HiDefGator

atc363 said:


> As a long term Directv customer, it has been a problem getting them in recent times to recognize that I OWN my Tivo units and that I do not have to pay lease fees and mirroring fees (as a former Primestar customer).


That's not surprsing given that most of the CSR's probably haven't worked there long enough to remember non-leased units or primestar.

And now I'm curious, why would an ex-primestar customer not have to pay a lease or mirroring fee?


----------



## shibby191

HiDefGator said:


> And now I'm curious, why would an ex-primestar customer not have to pay a lease or mirroring fee?


If I remember correctly Primestar did something different with mirroring fees. I think there was one fee for the whole account no matter how many receivers you had whereas DirecTV has a fee per receiver. Part of the agreement of the DirecTV takeover was that ex-Primestar customers that stayed and transferred over to DirecTV got to keep the benefit.

But as you said, like many other "grandfathered" in stuff, some of it a decade or more older will get lost in the shuffle because no CSR knows anything about it. Reason is a CSR is lucky to work there 6 months before either being promoted or they quit because they are burned out. Thus is the way of 1st level customer service anywhere. Thus long term knowledge like Primestar gets lost. Heck, I'll bet the vast majority of CSRs have never even heard of Primestar.

Anyway, the moral of the story is, if you have anything that is grandfathered that is more then a year or two old you need to keep on your toes to keep it when you make changes to your account.


----------



## wscannell

Directv is getting rid of the grandfathered Primestar accounts. If you make any changes to your account, the grandfathering is over. I went through this with DTV all the way up the chain. Since I have AT&T phone service, they said I could get a discount by giving them my DTV account number. However, it turns out that I had to change my plan. Not much of a difference in price, but I have an older plan that is no longer offered. I changed to get the discount and my price was increased because a mirror fee was added to each receiver. I tried to get it fixed and went all the way up the chain and I was told that it would not be possible to fix it. I told them to put everything back the way it was. They would not do that. I called AT&T and then they got DTV to put everything back, but I was told if I make any changes to the account, it would revert to full mirror fees on all receivers. So this seems to be the end of Primestar grandfathering.


----------



## atc363

wscannell said:


> Directv is getting rid of the grandfathered Primestar accounts. If you make any changes to your account, the grandfathering is over. I went through this with DTV all the way up the chain. Since I have AT&T phone service, they said I could get a discount by giving them my DTV account number. However, it turns out that I had to change my plan. Not much of a difference in price, but I have an older plan that is no longer offered. I changed to get the discount and my price was increased because a mirror fee was added to each receiver. I tried to get it fixed and went all the way up the chain and I was told that it would not be possible to fix it. I told them to put everything back the way it was. They would not do that. I called AT&T and then they got DTV to put everything back, but I was told if I make any changes to the account, it would revert to full mirror fees on all receivers. So this seems to be the end of Primestar grandfathering.


My question is then on your bill what is the mirroring fee actually called and for how much? Is this the same thing as the lease fee? Please clarify.


----------



## stevel

It's called a mirroring fee if you own the receiver, lease fee if you don't. The cost is the same.


----------



## exdishnet

After holding out forever, hoping for the HD Tivo to finally emerge, I finally caved with the end of MPEG-2 broadcasts and allowed directv to install a new dish and an HR23-700. I told them on the phone and in person that I would give it a look, but fully expected to send it back. And now, a few days later...I have to admit it's pretty good. Not a tivo, of course, and my fingers miss the peanut, but the overall functionality is so nearly identical that I wish I hadn't waited so long. Yes, there are downsides: no automatic dual buffers (but a once-per-viewing-session workaround), a different guide I'm getting used to, an annoying "active" button I'll never use that gets in the way and kills a buffer when I hit it by accident...but really, those are fairly minor, and there are some advantages. The 90-minute buffer is nice. The automatically available padding for recordings that are likely to go over (sports, etc.) is a great touch, easier than on tivo. Defaults on series recordings are more flexible, the FF/REW/skip buttons are logical and handle the 90-minute buffers (over multiple shows) pretty intelligently. I wish it had OTA, but then again now that I'm getting local HDs off the bird it doesn't really matter. I'm a Mac guy, so haven't really got it networked yet, but at least it's online via my network, and the potential for more advanced networking is cool. Bottom line, I'm much happier than I expected to be, and by the time, if ever, that the hd tivo arrives, I'll have to take a good look at the cost vs. this free upgrade. 

I do wish they'd installed a SLM dish. I asked, they said no. Something to demand later, i suppose.


----------



## litzdog911

exdishnet said:


> .... I wish it had OTA, but then again now that I'm getting local HDs off the bird it doesn't really matter. ...


You can add the AM21 Off-Air Tuner Accessory to your HD DVR to provide integrated dual tuner off-air channels using an OTA antenna. It connects to the HD DVR's USB port. You can order via your DirecTV.com account for ~$50.


----------



## comic75

From Facebook today:

"Development on the DirecTV TiVo DVR is still moving along, and we&#8217;re looking toward implementing the second half of the year."


----------



## fasTLane

comic75 said:


> From Facebook today:
> 
> "Development on the DirecTV TiVo DVR is still moving along, and we're looking toward implementing the second half of the year."


That is one busy thread over there on facebook...


----------



## ronsch

It would be nice if they sent a corresponding email to all of us who signed up for them a year ago.


----------



## bwld123

comic75 said:


> From Facebook today:
> 
> "Development on the DirecTV TiVo DVR is still moving along, and were looking toward implementing the second half of the year."


Still moving along from a sketch on a back of a napkin to a sketch on paper??


----------



## Daniel

comic75 said:


> From Facebook today:
> 
> "Development on the DirecTV TiVo DVR is still moving along, and were looking toward implementing the second half of the year."


I wonder how they are planning to implement the second half of the year? Do you thing that it will still have six months and can I fast forward through the boring parts like work and rewind the fun parts?


----------



## cantil

So today i chatted with some diffrent people at tivo and basically was told that there will be no new tivo boxes just directv boxes running the tivo software and will have some of the features of current directv's ui  if this is the case i am going to be a sad panda i miss my peanut


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## shibby191

cantil said:


> So today i chatted with some diffrent people at tivo and basically was told that there will be no new tivo boxes just directv boxes running the tivo software and will have some of the features of current directv's ui  if this is the case i am going to be a sad panda i miss my peanut


Ummm, this has been the plan since it was announced nearly 2 years ago. Tivo is developing Tivo software to go on DirecTV hardware. We don't know anything more today then we did in 2008 other then the release date keeps getting pushed back.


----------



## litzdog911

cantil said:


> So today i chatted with some diffrent people at tivo and basically was told that there will be no new tivo boxes just directv boxes running the tivo software and will have some of the features of current directv's ui  if this is the case i am going to be a sad panda i miss my peanut


What difference does it make if Tivo's building on top of the newest DirecTV hardware platform? It's the software features that we want, right?


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## stevel

The new DTiVo will, according to the contract, have a peanut remote.


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## austinsho

Without it, it's not a Tivo!


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## parzec

To those waiting for the HD-DirecTV Tivo to materialize out of the vapor, might I suggest dropping DirecTV, getting a TivoHD, OTA antenna, and subscription to Netflix? I did this some time ago and couldn't be happier with the set up... I save $75+ per month and have more HD content via OTA and Netflix on-demand streaming than I can possibly watch. Sure, you might not have access to all those infomercial channels and religious networks, but you can always seek them out on the internet


----------



## DaveWhittle

parzec said:


> To those waiting for the HD-DirecTV Tivo to materialize out of the vapor, might I suggest dropping DirecTV, getting a TivoHD, OTA antenna, and subscription to Netflix?


Just last night I dropped DirecTV after 10+years, mainly because I wanted a Tivo now. And I have a Netflix subscription and great access to free HD OTA.

It's not for everyone - Direct has great picture, lots of good channels, and easy/convenient. But once you add HD + DVR + multiroom, it starts to get expensive. And throw HBO in there and I was paying _a lot_ (over $100) per month.

Comcast gave me a great one-year package to "drop the dish", plus a discount for high-speed internet. And it's much easier to channel surf on OTA and cable, if that's your thing.

So far I haven't regretted dropping DirecTV at all.


----------



## bigpuma

parzec said:


> To those waiting for the HD-DirecTV Tivo to materialize out of the vapor, might I suggest dropping DirecTV, getting a TivoHD, OTA antenna, and subscription to Netflix? I did this some time ago and couldn't be happier with the set up... I save $75+ per month and have more HD content via OTA and Netflix on-demand streaming than I can possibly watch. Sure, you might not have access to all those infomercial channels and religious networks, but you can always seek them out on the internet


It's not a bad idea except I love sports. I just can't get everything I want without DirecTV. Also I don't have a problem with the HR2x DVRs.


----------



## parzec

bigpuma said:


> It's not a bad idea except I love sports. I just can't get everything I want without DirecTV. Also I don't have a problem with the HR2x DVRs.


There's the rub -- I'm not a big sports fan -- everything I care about is usually on network TV. But I have a couple of friends who are sports fanatics and couldn't live without Season Ticket and ESPN. So going "off-grid" is not for everyone, but for me it makes perfect sense.


----------



## shibby191

Even more off the grid is to build a HTPC and not have Tivo at all and save those monthly fees as well. Windows 7 Media Center is a very, very nice DVR and gets higher ratings then Tivo even. It is that sweet. And free.


----------



## Kablemodem

You don't have to have monthly fees with TiVo if you don't want to.


----------



## parzec

shibby191 said:


> Even more off the grid is to build a HTPC and not have Tivo at all and save those monthly fees as well. Windows 7 Media Center is a very, very nice DVR and gets higher ratings then Tivo even. It is that sweet. And free.


Yep...I've been thinking about that for my next DVR! Get a super-mini case with multiple tuner cards and an xbox360 as video extender. SWEET!


----------



## parzec

parzec said:


> Yep...I've been thinking about that for my next DVR! Get a super-mini case with multiple tuner cards and an xbox360 as video extender. SWEET!


Didn't mean to get OT and hijack the thread....back to HD-DirecTV speculations.


----------



## bobbob20

parzec said:


> To those waiting for the HD-DirecTV Tivo to materialize out of the vapor, might I suggest dropping DirecTV, getting a TivoHD, OTA antenna, and subscription to Netflix? I did this some time ago and couldn't be happier with the set up... I save $75+ per month and have more HD content via OTA and Netflix on-demand streaming than I can possibly watch. Sure, you might not have access to all those infomercial channels and religious networks, but you can always seek them out on the internet


I've been using my series 1 Sony SAT-T60 DirecTV Tivo DVR for years. This DTivo is what, 8 years old or more now? My own upgraded hard drive and old 2.5 OS just keeps kicking. But, I do want to upgrade to recordable HD since my TV is capable of HD.

I do not like the fact of spending hundreds of dollars to "lease" a piece of equipment and still have to pay a monthly fee for the "lease". Give about 2 years of "leasing" and maybe I'd be able to purchase 2 or 3 units out-right instead like my Sony SAT-T60 had been.

I do watch and enjoy stations like See Fee (SyFy), HGTV, [email protected], and others. What choices would I have if I didn't want DirecTV anymore? I do have a local Comcast here, which I receive internet currently. It's not that I don't like DirecTV anymore, but I'm looking for other options. I'd like to know all possible options for recording HD. Since I do like the See Fee channel, I'm guessing I'll need some form of cable or satellite. I'm planning on adding an OTA antenna outside, but that'll only give me the general local junk made for "the family" and "kids" watching.

I've read many horror stories regarding DirecTV's HD DVRs. Freezing and locking every few days just doesn't sound appeasing. All the returns and exchanges either. Any thoughts on the HR23 or maybe the new HR24? You think HR24 would still suffer from locking up? I've been waiting for the new DirecTV Tivo based HD DVR (about 8 months now) in hopes it would solve the many problems people have had with DirecTV's brand of HD DVRs. But I'm skeptical that even Tivo could fix a problem with DirecTV's hardware (maybe that's why it's taking their joint effort so long to produce a usable product!?).

Maybe a Tivo Premier using the Comcast HD service. But I thought I've read Comcast doesn't have as many HD channels as DirecTV? In my area I only get Verizon telephone and Comcast internet, no AT&T uverse junk.

So maybe DirecTV's HR24? Or the Tivo Premier w/Comcast? Not sure if one would be more pricing than the other.


----------



## samo

The information you quoting is very dated. My HR22 hasn't locked up in almost 2 years. Latest lock-up poll on a new Premiere http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=446624
shows that 90% of users experienced at least one lock-up and Premire has been out for less than a month. Even if DirecTiVo has been released, I would not get it for at least 6 month to let TiVo work the bugs out. For under $200 you can lease HR2X and pay $6.99 /month for the sub on all of your DVRs. The lease monthly fee is $5/month but you don't have to pay $5 mirror fee so effectively there are no additional monthly fees compare to the owned unit.
But if you want to see extra pause ads and extra ads on interface you have to switch to Comcast and use TiVo.


----------



## shibby191

bobbob20 said:


> I do not like the fact of spending hundreds of dollars to "lease" a piece of equipment and still have to pay a monthly fee for the "lease". Give about 2 years of "leasing" and maybe I'd be able to purchase 2 or 3 units out-right instead like my Sony SAT-T60 had been.


You may want to do the math on this one (which may still not work out for you).

Lease HR2x - Typically free for DirecTivo upgraders, $99 is typical, $199 at most if you can't get any deals.
Actually own/buy HR2x - $499

Same monthly fee of $4.99 no matter if a box is leased or owned, same monthly fee you're paying on your T60. Oh, if it's your only receiver there is no monthly fee, even if leased.

So to be frank, over 2 yr period you'll come out *way* ahead money wise by just leasing, especially if you get a deal, even if you could sell that owned one on eBay.

So work the math out for yourself.

And keep in mind this new DirecTivo HD unit will also be a leased unit. Everything from DirecTV is leased. Heck, my last SD DirecTivo I activated was leased because it was after the date they started leasing a few years ago.



> I do watch and enjoy stations like See Fee (SyFy), HGTV, [email protected], and others. What choices would I have if I didn't want DirecTV anymore? I do have a local Comcast here, which I receive internet currently. It's not that I don't like DirecTV anymore, but I'm looking for other options. I'd like to know all possible options for recording HD. Since I do like the See Fee channel, I'm guessing I'll need some form of cable or satellite. I'm planning on adding an OTA antenna outside, but that'll only give me the general local junk made for "the family" and "kids" watching.


Depends on the network. All SyFy stuff is available for streaming on Hulu within a few days of airing. It's not in HD though. You'd need to check each program you want to see if it's streaming on Netflix, Hulu or Boxee.



> I've read many horror stories regarding DirecTV's HD DVRs. Freezing and locking every few days just doesn't sound appeasing.


As noted by samo, that is way outdated info. The HR2x's are very stable now and have been for 2-3 years. Only it's first year of release were there a lot of problems like that. I almost never see any posts like this on any of the forums (Satguys, DBSTalk, etc.) anymore.


----------



## fasTLane

Thanks to every one for all the
*Updates on the new DIRECTV TiVo *
and all that that entails.


----------



## shibby191

fasTLane said:


> Thanks to every one for all the
> *Updates on the new DIRECTV TiVo *
> and all that that entails.


LOL. Yea. Not much to talk about since the only new news we have gotten since 2008 has pretty much been "delayed another 6 months".


----------



## bobbob20

samo said:


> But if you want to see extra pause ads and extra ads on interface you have to switch to Comcast and use TiVo.


So with a Tivo unit and Comcast you'll get ads when you pause? That bites. You think this new Tivo unit will do the same?

I love my 30 sec skip feature. Some opening credits are just about 30 seconds long. Anyone know if any of the other recorders use the 'skip back' feature when you stop a fast forward? Another feature I love on my DTivo.


----------



## CuriousMark

bobbob20 said:


> So with a Tivo unit and Comcast you'll get ads when you pause? That bites. You think this new Tivo unit will do the same?
> 
> I love my 30 sec skip feature. Some opening credits are just about 30 seconds long. Anyone know if any of the other recorders use the 'skip back' feature when you stop a fast forward? Another feature I love on my DTivo.


Careful, some people here really seriously dislike TiVo and like to share their views widely. They could provide a balanced view, but choose not to.

Yes, the DVR displays a menu when you pause, a button you can press for more information about the show. It can also show another button for an ad. They will clear on their own in about 30 seconds. Some people are distressed that they can see this on the screen and others are not. If seeing a button you can press to take you to an advertisement disturbs you, then yes it bites. You can make it go away by pressing frame advance, or down arrow if you need to see more of the screen and you can set the progress bar quick clear code pause - down - play, then S-P-S-puase-S to make the progress bar, more info button, and possible advertisement button dissapear very quickly after you hit pause. The down side of using this code is that the progress bar clears quickly during fast forward in addition to during pause.

The new Premiere TiVo DVR for cable is no different than the series 2, 3 or HD TiVo DVRs in this respect. It has the buttons.

There are other places in the UI where buttons linked to advertisements also appear. Places you will see them are at the bottom of TiVo Central, at the bottom of program groups, and on the Would you like to delete this program screen at the end of a show. Some people find these easy to ignore, and others do not. Whether or not it will bother you is a personal decision. I just want you to have the facts up front so you can decide fairly.

There has be zero information released as to whether the new DirecTV DVR with TiVo service will have these advertising related features/annoyances or not.

I don't know if non-TiVo DVRs have the skip back feature or not, but I am sure others here who know can tell you.


----------



## stevel

The DirecTV DVRs have the "skip back" (autocorrect) feature.


----------



## shibby191

bobbob20 said:


> I love my 30 sec skip feature. Some opening credits are just about 30 seconds long. Anyone know if any of the other recorders use the 'skip back' feature when you stop a fast forward? Another feature I love on my DTivo.


The DirecTV DVRs (HR20-24) have both 30 sec skip (or slip, your choice) and the skip back autocorrection features and have for at least a couple years now.


----------



## shibby191

CuriousMark said:


> There has be zero information released as to whether the new DirecTV DVR with TiVo service will have these advertising related features/annoyances or not.


Yep, nobody knows. If I had to make a WAG (wild as* guess) I would say that it will not have the Tivo style pause ads and such as DirecTV has their own annoying ads like in the guide.


----------



## CuriousMark

shibby191 said:


> Yep, nobody knows. If I had to make a WAG (wild as* guess) I would say that it will not have the Tivo style pause ads and such as DirecTV has their own annoying ads like in the guide.


And just to be slightly obnoxious, I will take the other side just for fun and guess that the TiVo will have TiVo style ads. Then TiVo and DirecTV can compare notes on which ones work better and/or annoy customers the least.

Shibby191, if you are right, I will owe you a cyber beer.


----------



## shibby191

CuriousMark said:


> And just to be slightly obnoxious, I will take the other side just for fun and guess that the TiVo will have TiVo style ads. Then TiVo and DirecTV can compare notes on which ones work better and/or annoy customers the least.
> 
> Shibby191, if you are right, I will owe you a cyber beer.


LOL. I think you are just as likely to be correct. We all know that these companies want to push ads one way or another.


----------



## samo

shibby191 said:


> Yep, nobody knows. If I had to make a WAG (wild as* guess) I would say that it will not have the Tivo style pause ads and such as DirecTV has their own annoying ads like in the guide.


There are no ads in a guide. There are lines in a guide grid that are shown in color graphics to distinguish them from the regular programming. These lines are for on-demand movies and sometimes sporting events. These line are shown in proper places - for example on-demand movies in 1080P are shown just before regular PPV guide. So instead of setting recording for PPV movie you can just choose to play it (they have been pre-recorded in reserved section of your hard drive - unlike TiVo DirecTV uses reserved section for PPV instead of ads)). Same with sporting events - they show in a sport section of the guide.


----------



## whitepelican

samo said:


> There are no ads in a guide. There are lines in a guide grid that are shown in color graphics to distinguish them from the regular programming. These lines are for on-demand movies and sometimes sporting events. These line are shown in proper places - for example on-demand movies in 1080P are shown just before regular PPV guide. So instead of setting recording for PPV movie you can just choose to play it (they have been pre-recorded in reserved section of your hard drive - unlike TiVo DirecTV uses reserved section for PPV instead of ads)). Same with sporting events - they show in a sport section of the guide.


Wow. Now I've seen it all. Those aren't ads in the guide? Oh, right, those are just helpful notices to try to get you to buy some additional programming from DirecTV. And those helpful notices are just highlighted in a different color and taking up space that could've been used for more guide info. That's downright charitable of DirecTV to help you out like that.


----------



## stevel

TiVo displays ads for non-TV-show/movie products, DirecTV doesn't. I don't expect that to change with the new DTiVo (should I live so long to see it.)


----------



## Duke

comic75 said:


> From Facebook today:
> 
> "Development on the DirecTV TiVo DVR is still moving along, and were looking toward implementing the second half of the year."


Can't figure out how to connect the chips....?


----------



## Mr. Broflovski

whitepelican said:


> Wow. Now I've seen it all. Those aren't ads in the guide? Oh, right, those are just helpful notices to try to get you to buy some additional programming from DirecTV. And those helpful notices are just highlighted in a different color and taking up space that could've been used for more guide info. That's downright charitable of DirecTV to help you out like that.


Post of the year.


----------



## CuriousMark

samo said:


> So instead of setting recording for PPV movie you can just choose to play it (they have been pre-recorded in reserved section of your hard drive - unlike TiVo DirecTV uses reserved section for PPV instead of ads)).


That's interesting. I wonder if TiVo will support this, or something like it with the new DirecTV DVR with TiVo service. It makes a lot of sense. They can send it down when bandwidth is available and people can get instant response. I didn't know DirecTV did this. Thanks for explaining.

Isn't there an over the top movie box that does something similar, caching the start of hundreds of movies?

Here is a place where a search interface would be handy. you could find the stuff you want when you want without it taking up guide real estate. In the TiVo interface, the ads for the pre-recorded PPV or VOD item would sit in the discovery bar across the top of the HDUI. (oh yeah, no HDUI in the new box. Maybe that would come later)


----------



## HiDefGator

CuriousMark said:


> That's interesting. I wonder if TiVo will support this, or something like it with the new DirecTV DVR with TiVo service. It makes a lot of sense. They can send it down when bandwidth is available and people can get instant response. I didn't know DirecTV did this. Thanks for explaining.


It isn't a question of bandwidth. The movies are being sent on a regular basis for live PPV viewing. They are just silently recording them for you if a tuner is available. No extra bandwidth required.


----------



## shibby191

Yea, they've been doing it for a while, it's part of their VOD offering. There is reserved space on the HR2x hard drives (just like the reserved space on Tivo's) and DirecTV puts some of the top PPV movies in 1080p on there for instant VOD (while Tivo puts ads in the reserved space, although I do remember some previews way back in the day, not sure what they do now). Other VOD movies are available via Internet download which will save to your hard drive.


----------



## CuriousMark

HiDefGator said:


> It isn't a question of bandwidth. The movies are being sent on a regular basis for live PPV viewing. They are just silently recording them for you if a tuner is available. No extra bandwidth required.


Giving instant start on demand playback of a full movie that was not locally pre-recorded would take added bandwidth. That was the comparison I was thinking of when I said that.


----------



## CuriousMark

shibby191 said:


> Yea, they've been doing it for a while, it's part of their VOD offering. There is reserved space on the HR2x hard drives (just like the reserved space on Tivo's) and DirecTV puts some of the top PPV movies in 1080p on there for instant VOD (while Tivo puts ads in the reserved space, although I do remember some previews way back in the day, not sure what they do now). Other VOD movies are available via Internet download which will save to your hard drive.


The TiVo doesn't have enough reserved space for that in their older DVRs, but certainly could in newer models. I am pretty sure that currently the showcases can hold only about 30 minutes total of video. But, yes the concept of a dedicated space that can be filled at the service's discretion is certainly the same.


----------



## samo

whitepelican said:


> And those helpful notices are just highlighted in a different color and taking up space that could've been used for more guide info. That's downright charitable of DirecTV to help you out like that.


I don't understand your sarcasm. These are not notices, these are actual guide lines except because they are already pre-recorded they do not have start and stop time. These are the same movies that are available on various PPV channels in 1080i and SD at the later times (usually few days later).
Where else should DirecTV put programming information instead of the Guide?
There is no waste of Guide space. Newest PPV movies occupy this one color line for the few days and then they move to the regular PPV guide and take half a dozen lines because the same movie will be showing on multiple PPV channels in 1080i or SD with multiple start-stop times.


----------



## cantil

samo said:


> I don't understand your sarcasm. These are not notices, these are actual guide lines except because they are already pre-recorded they do not have start and stop time. These are the same movies that are available on various PPV channels in 1080i and SD at the later times (usually few days later).
> Where else should DirecTV put programming information instead of the Guide?
> There is no waste of Guide space. Newest PPV movies occupy this one color line for the few days and then they move to the regular PPV guide and take half a dozen lines because the same movie will be showing on multiple PPV channels in 1080i or SD with multiple start-stop times.


He is not talking abot pre-recorded shows it's the ones that say tune into see tacky house ect.


----------



## whitepelican

samo said:


> I don't understand your sarcasm. These are not notices, these are actual guide lines except because they are already pre-recorded they do not have start and stop time. These are the same movies that are available on various PPV channels in 1080i and SD at the later times (usually few days later).
> Where else should DirecTV put programming information instead of the Guide?
> There is no waste of Guide space. Newest PPV movies occupy this one color line for the few days and then they move to the regular PPV guide and take half a dozen lines because the same movie will be showing on multiple PPV channels in 1080i or SD with multiple start-stop times.


Unless they've drastically changed this since I had DirecTV service last year, then there were certainly lines in the guide that were advertisements. And if they have changed this practice then I apologize. But when I last used a HR2x DVR, the ads weren't all just for PPV movies that were already stored on the DVR. I think maybe you're being deliberately disingenuous with your characterization of said advertisements.


----------



## HiDefGator

whitepelican said:


> Unless they've drastically changed this since I had DirecTV service last year, then there were certainly lines in the guide that were advertisements. And if they have changed this practice then I apologize. But when I last used a HR2x DVR, the ads weren't all just for PPV movies that were already stored on the DVR. I think maybe you're being deliberately disingenuous with your characterization of said advertisements.


I have never seen an ad for Ford, Spaghetti, Beer, or Soap on my HR20's. The only things I have seen listed as "fake channels" were ads for movies.


----------



## whitepelican

HiDefGator said:


> I have never seen an ad for Ford, Spaghetti, Beer, or Soap on my HR20's. The only things I have seen listed as "fake channels" were ads for movies.


When I was subscribed to DirecTV I saw advertisements for PPV movies, as well as PPV events, sports subscriptions, etc. Just because they're ads for DirecTV programming doesn't mean they aren't ads. There are at least a couple of different threads over at Dbstalk where even the DirecTV fanboys are complaining about the in-guide ads.


----------



## samo

whitepelican said:


> When I was subscribed to DirecTV I saw advertisements for PPV movies, as well as PPV events, sports subscriptions, etc. Just because they're ads for DirecTV programming doesn't mean they aren't ads. There are at least a couple of different threads over at Dbstalk where even the DirecTV fanboys are complaining about the in-guide ads.


They do have guide lines for PPV and sports events once in a while. They are always placed in proper sections of the guide - sports events are placed in a sports channels section, etc. Again, how do you want them to inform you that event is available? The logical way to do it is to put it in a proper section of the guide so people who are interested in a type of the event can click on it to order.


----------



## 1999cobra

So after all the 13 pages of BS when will the F'ing thing be available on D*...???

Bottom line - none of you know, so why not "STFU" with all your foolish comments and accusations, and know it all statements


----------



## whitepelican

samo said:


> Again, how do you want them to inform you that event is available?


Personally, I don't care at all since I no longer subscribe to DirecTV. But the place to put helpful messages of that nature would be in the "TVMail" messages that they send to your receiver. But then people could avoid seeing those if they wished. Which points back to the fact that these aren't the helpful messages you are (dishonestly) characterizing them as. They are simply advertisements trying to sell a product/service. And that's why they are plastered right in front of your face in the guide where you can't avoid them.


----------



## exdishnet

At this moment, on my guide, BETWEEN hboehd and hb2e (that is, between channels 501 and 502) there is an inserted bar offering me the opportunity to BUY the Princess and the Frog. It's a pay-per-view opportunity. My ordinary guide list does not show the ppv channels (I turn them off, knowing I can get to them if I need them.) But I can do nothing about the extra line for the Princess and the Frog. It's there whether I want it or not, and to make use of it, I would have to pay extra. It is out of sequence, since it separates channel 501 from channel 502. I can't turn it off, I can't move it, I didn't ask for it, and its purpose is to make revenue for a company that I already pay.

And THAT, Samo, is the very definition of an advertisement.


----------



## HiDefGator

I thought the question was are they advertising things other than what you can buy from Directv directly with your remote. The princess and the frog PPV is obviously an ad, but not an ad for Domino's, Beer, or Dunkin Donuts.


----------



## whitepelican

HiDefGator said:


> I thought the question was are they advertising things other than what you can buy from Directv directly with your remote. The princess and the frog PPV is obviously an ad, but not an ad for Domino's, Beer, or Dunkin Donuts.


No, that's a separate argument that you're making. Some of us are just trying to point out how blatantly false samo's statements are regarding DirecTV not having ads in the guide. Particularly his quote below.



samo said:


> There are no ads in a guide. There are lines in a guide grid that are shown in color graphics to distinguish them from the regular programming.


----------



## pcguru83

So I was just on the line with DirecTV sales. I was asking some questions about the HR23 and HR24 availability and got pushed over to a supervisor after about 5 minutes since the girl I got was supposedly. 

Forgive me if this isn't a new tactic on DirecTV's part, but the guy told me that the DirecTiVo is now in four test markets and is doing extremely well. He said it is now slated for release in June 2010. 

So how high was this guy?  Any chance at all that this might hold some merit?


----------



## litzdog911

pcguru83 said:


> So I was just on the line with DirecTV sales. I was asking some questions about the HR23 and HR24 availability and got pushed over to a supervisor after about 5 minutes since the girl I got was supposedly.
> 
> Forgive me if this isn't a new tactic on DirecTV's part, but the guy told me that the DirecTiVo is now in four test markets and is doing extremely well. He said it is now slated for release in June 2010.
> 
> So how high was this guy?  Any chance at all that this might hold some merit?


Don't believe it.


----------



## balboa dave

pcguru83 said:


> So I was just on the line with DirecTV sales. I was asking some questions about the HR23 and HR24 availability and got pushed over to a supervisor after about 5 minutes since the girl I got was supposedly.
> 
> Forgive me if this isn't a new tactic on DirecTV's part, but the guy told me that the DirecTiVo is now in four test markets and is doing extremely well. He said it is now slated for release in June 2010.
> 
> So how high was this guy?  Any chance at all that this might hold some merit?


Sadly, they're confusing the TiVo with Multi-Room Viewing, which is indeed in beta in four cities. My hope is that later this year, the TiVo version will be added to the mix, and this is why its release has been delayed.


----------



## samo

whitepelican said:


> No, that's a separate argument that you're making. Some of us are just trying to point out how blatantly false samo's statements are regarding DirecTV not having ads in the guide. Particularly his quote below.


I stand by my quote. Any programming information regular, premium or PPV belongs in a guide. By your definition every single line in a guide grid is an advertisement of the TV shows because it is trying to entice you to watch it.
If programming is available to you it should be in a guide for you to click on it to watch/record or to ignore and keep scrolling until you find something better.


----------



## shibby191

While I do consider the lines in the guide actual ads, Samo does have a point that they are all for actual programming options available on DirecTV. Like the Masters mix channels. Many people may not even know they are available (and free) other then the one line "ad" for it in the guide.

What is not there are ads for GM or Toyota or Sony. It's just additional programming available from DirecTV, some with additional cost yes. But then if you don't pay for HBO but see it in the guide it's kind of an "ad" as well to entice you to buy HBO. 

In the end they are ads, but they are not "general" ads but specific programming options.


----------



## FirePit

shibby191 said:


> ...ads...Samo..."ad"...ads..."ad"...ads...ads.


Can anyone explain to me how this debate has any relevance to "Updates on the new DIRECTV TiVo" ? If not, can you guys please move this discussion elsewhere?


----------



## shibby191

FirePit said:


> Can anyone explain to me how this debate has any relevance to "Updates on the new DIRECTV TiVo" ? If not, can you guys please move this discussion elsewhere?


LOL. Honestly, if this thread was simply just updates on the new Tivo box it would be just 5 posts long.


----------



## litzdog911

shibby191 said:


> LOL. Honestly, if this thread was simply just updates on the new Tivo box it would be just 5 posts long.


So true!


----------



## fasTLane

FirePit said:


> Can anyone explain to me how this debate has any relevance to "Updates on the new DIRECTV TiVo" ? If not, can you guys please move this discussion elsewhere?


Let me understand. You don't want to waste your time trying to find something topic worthy in a discussion?

Maybe that's why OT isn't tolerated in most forums...


----------



## samo

shibby191 said:


> LOL. Honestly, if this thread was simply just updates on the new Tivo box it would be just 5 posts long.


We need to keep this topic alive somehow. If we don't post OT, this thread will die well before there is any information on new DirecTiVo available.


----------



## fasTLane

B S


----------



## catocony

Samo, that actually sums up the discussion  We've been waiting a couple of years and nobody knows anything.


----------



## shibby191

catocony said:


> Samo, that actually sums up the discussion  We've been waiting a couple of years and nobody knows anything.


Pretty much. LOL.

I'll summarize what we officially know:

1) First press release back in 2008, Sept I believe. Says they are working on it and will have a couple Tivo features like swivel search (which Tivo themselves no longer uses) and KidZone and would be built on the DirecTV multimedia networked platform.

2) Pretty much every 6 months we hear from Tivo that it's been delayed until some vague "early next year" or "later this year". If this pattern continues we'll get another one of these around June or July.

Based on SEC filings we believe it will be based on one of the HR2x hardware models and have the Tivo logo on it and it will have a peanut remote.

That's pretty much it really. Everything else is speculation on our part.


----------



## CuriousMark

shibby191 said:


> Pretty much. LOL.
> 
> I'll summarize what we officially know:
> 
> 1) First press release back in 2008, Sept I believe. Says they are working on it and will have a couple Tivo features like swivel search (which Tivo themselves no longer uses) and KidZone and would be built on the DirecTV multimedia networked platform.
> 
> 2) Pretty much every 6 months we hear from Tivo that it's been delayed until some vague "early next year" or "later this year". If this pattern continues we'll get another one of these around June or July.
> 
> Based on SEC filings we believe it will be based on one of the HR2x hardware models and have the Tivo logo on it and it will have a peanut remote.
> 
> That's pretty much it really. Everything else is speculation on our part.


Additionally we know that the CEO of TiVo has said that it will be a "new box", that it will have the older legacy TiVo User interface, and that it will NOT be downloadable like the Comcast version.

We know the new Peanut remote has the colored buttons so we speculate that the new software will likely support at least some of the DirecTV features that use those buttons.


----------



## 1003

*Realistically*
with DirecTV currently spending large dollars to tout thier 'superior' to cable and Dish DVR why would they introduce a TiVo interface box as a 'step-up'? Probably just keep stringing TiVo along, always finding some flaw to prevent release while maintaining a monopoly with thier HR* boxes...


----------



## samo

JJ said:


> *Realistically*
> with DirecTV currently spending large dollars to tout thier 'superior' to cable and Dish DVR why would they introduce a TiVo interface box as a 'step-up'? Probably just keep stringing TiVo along, always finding some flaw to prevent release while maintaining a monopoly with thier HR* boxes...


Unless TiVo will be a step-up? We don't know if it will be, but if it will wouldn't DirecTV want to have even better DVR?


----------



## HiDefGator

samo said:


> Unless TiVo will be a step-up? We don't know if it will be, but if it will wouldn't DirecTV want to have even better DVR?


I think the only room for it to be a "step up" is if it is better than the standard HR24 but not as good as the Premeire. It can't be worse than the HR24 but it seems unlikely to be better than Tivo's flagship S4. A very narrow range for it to be a step up with Directv limiting what it can do at the same time. Can't wait to see it. But I'm afraid it will only end up being the DVR for those Tivo fanatics that have to have Directv. Not exactly a huge group for a target market.


----------



## aavi722

You might have all already seen this but I stumbled across it today looking for a power cord for an R-10 that I just bought.

It's not much news, but it's at least some specifics and actually on the website of DirecTV. I think this is more than it had said before. All I saw before was a sign up for being notified by email about any news on the Tivo. 

I don't have enough posts to include the link but this is it....


support.directv.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/77/session/L3NpZC9PaUVIdVItag==


----------



## shibby191

aavi722 said:


> You might have all already seen this but I stumbled across it today looking for a power cord for an R-10 that I just bought.
> 
> It's not much news, but it's at least some specifics and actually on the website of DirecTV. I think this is more than it had said before. All I saw before was a sign up for being notified by email about any news on the Tivo.
> 
> I don't have enough posts to include the link but this is it....
> 
> support.directv.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/77/session/L3NpZC9PaUVIdVItag==


Thanks for the link. That is pretty much what was in the press release back in 2008 so nothing new there.

The reason for the delay is pretty simple: Tivo always overpromises, tries to do too many things at once and is late. Been that way their entire history. The unfortunate thing for Tivo this time is the more they delay the more it won't matter once they finally get it out as there will be too few people who will care for it to be a big success.

For DirecTV it's always been a win-win. They get the no sue clause renewed until 2018 and paying Tivo a few million to develop a new box that may or may not ever make it to market is a lot cheaper then getting sued (see Dish Network). I highly doubt it matters to DirecTV weather it actually ever ships or not, they already got what they want, immunity from lawsuits, and most of the hard core Tivo people have already left DirecTV.

Then again, we've been around and around on these same points a dozen times in this and other threads. Nothing new.


----------



## SullyND

shibby191 said:


> The reason for the delay is


unkown.

You love to blame it on TiVo, but in reality we don't know. It could just as easily be DirecTV or some combination of the two.


----------



## shibby191

SullyND said:


> unkown.
> 
> You love to blame it on TiVo, but in reality we don't know. It could just as easily be DirecTV or some combination of the two.


You are correct. But the evidence and the long history point a certain way.


----------



## nrc

shibby191 said:


> You are correct. But the evidence and the long history point a certain way.


Actually, the evidence suggests the just the opposite. It was DirecTV's responsibility to complete the statement of work defining exactly what TiVo was supposed to produce. It took them eight months just to complete that.

None of TiVo's products where they are not encumbered by a partner requirements have been particularly late. The RCN TiVo went from an announcement to products in customer homes in just barely longer than it took DirecTV to complete their required statement of work.


----------



## shibby191

nrc said:


> Actually, the evidence suggests the just the opposite. It was DirecTV's responsibility to complete the statement of work defining exactly what TiVo was supposed to produce. It took them eight months just to complete that.


Ummm, got a link for that? First I've heard of that on any of the major forums. Not saying it's not true, but it's new to my ears.


----------



## CuriousMark

shibby191 said:


> Ummm, got a link for that? First I've heard of that on any of the major forums. Not saying it's not true, but it's new to my ears.


See my post #301 in response to your post #300. I said I was speculating there, so I am not offering a link with any kind of proof, but I thought you would remember the discussion.

I too would love to see something more concrete to back up my speculation.


----------



## nrc

shibby191 said:


> Ummm, got a link for that? First I've heard of that on any of the major forums. Not saying it's not true, but it's new to my ears.


That's from an attachment to a TiVo SEC filing which notes "the TE Solution Statement of Work entered into by our companies as of April 20, 2009 (the SOW)."

http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com...50820-183717-196042&SessionID=qrKRHSCVNXd_Al7

Responsibility for the statement of work was discussed in the agreement details contained in the 10Q after the intial announcement. But I must admit that I did mispeak on one point, the SOW was a shared responsibility, not just a DirecTV responsibility. So again, we have no way of knowing the cause of the delay.


----------



## shibby191

nrc said:


> So again, we have no way of knowing the cause of the delay.


Right, we don't know and we never will know. And it really doesn't matter (to us anyway).

Tivo has been announcing the delays thus why many people see Tivo as the delay. The SOW could have taken a while but frankly I see that as right on time with my experience in business with SOW, it's rarely ever quick. Tivo made a bit of a mistake IMO in announcing how quickly it would come out if the SOW wasn't already done. They should know better. And it's been delayed a couple more times since the SOW.

But who knows why and we will never know.

Bottom line is that it keeps getting delayed and that hurts Tivo no matter who is at fault.


----------



## CuriousMark

shibby191 said:


> Tivo has been announcing the delays thus why many people see Tivo as the delay. The SOW could have taken a while but frankly I see that as right on time with my experience in business with SOW, it's rarely ever quick. *Tivo made a bit of a mistake IMO in announcing how quickly it would come out if the SOW wasn't already done.* They should know better. And it's been delayed a couple more times since the SOW.


Yup, I think we are all in violent agreement that the original announcement had a totally unrealistic date.

The delays since then probably have other causes that we also don't know about.


----------



## stevel

From today's DirecTV quarterly results call (emphasis mine):

Q: Where are you with regards to the new TiVo?

A: We've had talks with Tom Rogers/TiVo .. They have specs for the box and a box should be available *end of this year or early next year*. Working closely with TiVo and expect to see a new box in the not too distant future.


----------



## goofybud16

I have a Dtivo Hughes, An R10, and an exta R10 in case a Dtivo goes out. The extera is perfect, the guy had just gotton a HD DTV DVR and didn't mind it. We got the R10 free. The hughes has a couple bad sectors, if upgrading R10 works will upgrade the Hughes HDD.


----------



## litzdog911

stevel said:


> ..... They have specs for the box and a box should be available *end of this year or early next year*. ....


Ouch. I still wonder why it's taking them so long. And now they're sending signals that it might be early 2011.


----------



## magnus

Yep, that sucketh.


----------



## pentium101

stevel said:


> We've had talks with Tom Rogers/TiVo .. They have specs for the box and a box should be available *end of this year or early next year*. Working closely with TiVo and expect to see a new box in the not too distant future.


Perhaps they are waiting to unveil this new unit at the CES show next year. IIRC, the R15 made its debut at the CES show.


----------



## stevel

I suspect that long before then, a great many people will have stopped caring about this.


----------



## Rainy Dave

I was hoping to get a HD DirecTiVo to go along with my HR21-700. My R10 is occasionally freezing, so I'm looking to upgrade it. I was going to wait on the new HD TiVo, but now I'm thinking I'll just get another HRx.

Don't care who is holding up the boat on this one, just tired of waiting.


----------



## GeneTaylor

I have no idea if this is true or not, but I spoke to a fellow at DirecTV last night, and he told me they are hoping to have the TIVO DVR available THIS MONTH! He claimed that the uncertainty is based on being able to insure sufficient availability to satisfy the demand before setting a release date. 

I hope he was right. I'm living with Cox Cable in Gilbert, AZ because I cannot stand the DirecTV HD-DVR - & I can't wait to get back to DirecTV.


----------



## fasTLane

My HD provider, going forward, will have *TiVo* functionality.









Maybe that provider will be DirecTV.... maybe not.

The race continues...


----------



## litzdog911

GeneTaylor said:


> I have no idea if this is true or not, but I spoke to a fellow at DirecTV last night, and he told me they are hoping to have the TIVO DVR available THIS MONTH! He claimed that the uncertainty is based on being able to insure sufficient availability to satisfy the demand before setting a release date.
> 
> I hope he was right. I'm living with Cox Cable in Gilbert, AZ because I cannot stand the DirecTV HD-DVR - & I can't wait to get back to DirecTV.


Not true. As far as I know, none are even in any sort of beta test program yet. Latest word from DirecTV's analyst conference earlier this week is "late 2010 or early 2011". My patience grows weary.


----------



## shibby191

litzdog911 said:


> Not true. As far as I know, none are even in any sort of beta test program yet. Latest word from DirecTV's analyst conference earlier this week is "late 2010 or early 2011". My patience grows weary.


Yep.

What is coming out next month nationwide is the official release of MRV.


----------



## aavi722

Maybe next year now?? Pfffft.

They're sure doing everything they can to alienate a lot of potential customers. This leads me to believe more and more they just want to hype this Premier unit to death until there are no customers left to upgrade to one or get one for cable.

Probably only then will they bring out this DirecTV Tivo. This sounds like it's more than just technology or partnership problems to me. :down:


----------



## Rainy Dave

I'll just take a TiVo cutout and paste it to the front panel on my HRx.


----------



## Crow159

GeneTaylor said:


> I have no idea if this is true or not, but I spoke to a fellow at DirecTV last night, and he told me they are hoping to have the TIVO DVR available THIS MONTH! He claimed that the uncertainty is based on being able to insure sufficient availability to satisfy the demand before setting a release date.
> 
> I hope he was right. I'm living with Cox Cable in Gilbert, AZ because I cannot stand the DirecTV HD-DVR - & I can't wait to get back to DirecTV.


The new Directv HR24 is being released this month, not the TiVo. It's available for preorder from Solidsignal.com.

The HR24 is pretty much the same as the other Directv HD DVRs with the exception that it is a lot faster and has a built in DECA adapter for Directv's version of MRV.

What was posted earlier from the financial call is the latest news on the Directivo.


----------



## fasTLane

Rainy Dave said:


> I'll just take a TiVo cutout and paste it to the front panel on my HRx.


Better you than me.


----------



## Sea bass

Well that buys me some time...still looking into a good...no...great HDTV...I can't say that I have been blown away by the new flat screens that I've seen lately. They really seem cheap...I definitely want the HD Tivo!


----------



## pentium101

Rainy Dave said:


> I'll just take a TiVo cutout and paste it to the front panel on my HRx.


That's funny.

Maybe if you squint while looking at it, it may look more realistic.


----------



## cthomp21

stevel said:


> I suspect that long before then, a great many people will have stopped caring about this.


You can just about count me in with this group.

While still and unintuitive, the HR2X's have all of the functionality I need (streaming MRV is great). Unless the new HD Tivo will be made available for free (highly doubtful) and have no additional monthly charge (highly doubtful), I'll probably be sticking with my HR2X's.

I wonder if the HD Tivo's peanut remote can control an HR2X......


----------



## ckelly33

shibby191 said:


> Yep.
> 
> What is coming out next month nationwide is the official release of MRV.


Dang! I got on here to confirm what my brother was told by D*TV - that TiVo is coming in the next few weeks. I knew it was too good to be true! I had planned on switching form Charter to D*TV once TiVo comes.

Oh, well...I just picked up three new Premieres so I guess that gives me a little time to play with those.

I have a question about the MRV though....my parents have D*TV with two HD DVR's but no home network (they don't have or want internet at home). I wonder if I set up a router up without internet service if that would work for MRV? Any opinions?


----------



## weaknees

ckelly33 said:


> Dang! I got on here to confirm what my brother was told by D*TV - that TiVo is coming in the next few weeks. I knew it was too good to be true! I had planned on switching form Charter to D*TV once TiVo comes.
> 
> Oh, well...I just picked up three new Premieres so I guess that gives me a little time to play with those.
> 
> I have a question about the MRV though....my parents have D*TV with two HD DVR's but no home network (they don't have or want internet at home). I wonder if I set up a router up without internet service if that would work for MRV? Any opinions?


Yup - you don't need internet for MRV.


----------



## whitepelican

ckelly33 said:


> Dang! I got on here to confirm what my brother was told by D*TV - that TiVo is coming in the next few weeks. I knew it was too good to be true! I had planned on switching form Charter to D*TV once TiVo comes.
> 
> Oh, well...I just picked up three new Premieres so I guess that gives me a little time to play with those.
> 
> I have a question about the MRV though....my parents have D*TV with two HD DVR's but no home network (they don't have or want internet at home). I wonder if I set up a router up without internet service if that would work for MRV? Any opinions?


Pretty sure that as soon as MRV comes out of beta (this week?) that you'll be able to order it through DirecTV. In that case, DirecTV will hook up the receivers via DECA (that's their style of MoCA, which is basically networking over the coax). In that case, you wouldn't need a router, or any Cat5 cabling. I think they plan on charging $100-$150 for the install. Check over at DBStalk.com for the details.


----------



## ckelly33

whitepelican said:


> Pretty sure that as soon as MRV comes out of beta (this week?) that you'll be able to order it through DirecTV. In that case, DirecTV will hook up the receivers via DECA (that's their style of MoCA, which is basically networking over the coax). In that case, you wouldn't need a router, or any Cat5 cabling. I think they plan on charging $100-$150 for the install. Check over at DBStalk.com for the details.


Thanks for the info. It's for my parents and I doubt they'd be interested in paying $150 (or even $100) for the DECA install. Hopefully as weaknees indicated, it will function via a router...I have plenty of extra routers they can have.

THey aren't the hard core / high demand users that their son has turned out to be


----------



## stevel

It will work with a router.


----------



## Athenian

stevel said:


> From today's DirecTV quarterly results call (emphasis mine):
> A: We've had talks with Tom Rogers/TiVo .. They have specs for the box and a box should be available *end of this year or early next year*. Working closely with TiVo and expect to see a new box in the not too distant future.


I don't understand this at all. Is he saying that they just now have specs for a box that was supposed to be available 12-18 months ago? One of my TiVos already died and now I have a failing tuner on another (will try the capacitor fix this weekend). I don't know how much longer we can hold out here before taking a serious look at Time-Warner with a cable-card TiVo.

Everyone in this household hates the R15 we got as a replacement last year and we're not interested in anything based on that interface. It's not at all intuitive and the remote is too cumbersome. I don't care how little difference other people see, its usability is a major impediment in this household, we hardly use that TV unless there is a scheduling conflict with the other two units.


----------



## shibby191

Athenian said:


> I don't understand this at all. Is he saying that they just now have specs for a box that was supposed to be available 12-18 months ago?


No, he is just saying that Tivo has the specs to build the thing and gave a timeframe of when it was due based on the last time he talked with Tivo. If you listen to the call it was kinda like saying "look, it's in Tivo's court to deliver and we're expecting it late this year or early next based on what they tell us, ask them if you want to know more".



> Everyone in this household hates the R15


Well, the R15 is indeed crap. Try to get at least an R16 or better an R22 which is based off the HR2x firmware which is light years ahead of the R15. They quit making the R15 a few years ago. It's almost as old as the DirecTivo's out there.


----------



## Wil

shibby191 said:


> No, he is just saying that Tivo has the specs to build the thing and gave a timeframe of when it was due based on the last time he talked with Tivo. If you listen to the call it was kinda like saying "look, it's in Tivo's court to deliver and we're expecting it late this year or early next based on what they tell us, ask them if you want to know more".


I was actually wondering how you were going to deal with that. Played just about as well as possible. My compliments.


----------



## stevel

Well, if anyone other than DirecTV asks TiVo about this, TiVo will say "no comment", which is all they are allowed to say.


----------



## CuriousMark

shibby191 said:


> No, he is just saying that Tivo has the specs to build the thing and gave a timeframe of when it was due based on the last time he talked with Tivo. If you listen to the call it was kinda like saying "look, it's in Tivo's court to deliver and we're expecting it late this year or early next based on what they tell us, ask them if you want to know more".


I did not have the luxury of hearing the call, but the transcript sure left me thinking that the specs were only provided to TiVo earlier this year. Actually listening can provide much more information than a transcript so I will accept your interpretation that the specs were delivered earlier than the transcript implies. I sure wish the interrogator had followed up with a "when did you say you gave them the specs?" type question.

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## stevel

Given that we were originally told to expect a box in the fall of 2009, and the announcement was in 2008, I have to assume that TiVo had the specs in early 2009 at latest.


----------



## vman

stevel said:


> Given that we were originally told to expect a box in the fall of 2009, and the announcement was in 2008, I have to assume that TiVo had the specs in early 2009 at latest.


Why do you assume that? At any point in that timeframe did they say that the specs had been provided. Otherwise, it seems to me all these timetables were based on assumptions about when the specs would be provided.


----------



## shibby191

CuriousMark said:


> I did not have the luxury of hearing the call, but the transcript sure left me thinking that the specs were only provided to TiVo earlier this year. Actually listening can provide much more information than a transcript so I will accept your interpretation that the specs were delivered earlier than the transcript implies. I sure wish the interrogator had followed up with a "when did you say you gave them the specs?" type question.
> 
> Thanks for sharing.


Well, honestly this is the first time anyone has brought up the specs with this conference call. Even DBSTalk didn't think anything of it.

I don't think there was any impression given on a timeframe of *when* specs were given to Tivo. It was simply a response of "Sighhhh...look dude, Tivo has the specs to build it, now they have to deliver. The latest timeframe given to us is end of this year/early next year. We don't know anything more then that, ask Tivo. Next question please."

If you want my opinion then I'd have to agree with Steve in that it was originally supposed to come out in the fall of 09 that Tivo had the specs long before that. Again, I don't want to go down the road of speculating something that we don't know and obviously the investors don't care enough to ask about. If DirecTV had indeed delayed getting the specs to Tivo (and frankly, they would be working together on the specs) then Tivo would probably have hinted to that by now to calm their own investors down about the delay. But again, we don't know and I'm not sure how anyone would pull a specs delay out of what was talked about at this conference call.


----------



## Wil

shibby191 said:


> Well, honestly this is the first time anyone has brought up the specs with this conference call


HONESTLY, NOBODY asked about the specs, just another general question about the schedule, which DirecTV has been asked about many, many times. THIS time, for the FIRST time (that I can recall), DirecTV volunteered the answer that they have given Tivo the specs. A legitimate reading is that providing of the specs is a new item. Doesn't mean that's what happened, but it's natural to think of it as a likely possibility.

It's also consistent with my observations on this kind of relationship, when party A is slow getting the specs to party B, or vague, or keeps changing them as they go along. Once the specs are final, they're quick to point out "B has the final specs now, ball's in their court, ask them, it's not our fault!" Again, doesn't mean it happened that way, just an indicator.


----------



## shibby191

Wil said:


> As I recall (didn't check back so I could be wrong), nobody asked about the specs, just another general question about the schedule, which DirecTV has been asked about many, many times.


Actually since the original announcement in 2008, DirecTV has never once mentioned on their own the Tivo relationship in any investor or conference call and before this last one there has only once been a question from the audience about Tivo which was about a year ago (at either the Citi or Goldman conference if I remember correctly) and DirecTV at that time just basically confirmed that they had an agreement with Tivo and that it was on track for a late 2009 release. By the way, this sends me the signal that Tivo had the specs by then and it was on track as far as DirecTV knew at the time. Why would DirecTV say it was on track if it wasn't? But it matters not really to the situation today. Obviously something changed middle last year that caused a delay, whatever that was.

This is actually the first time there was a more detailed question and answer about the Tivo relationship.

Here is the transcript of what was exactly said.



> *Thomas Eagan - Collins Stewart LLC*
> 
> And then just lastly. If you could talk about where you are in your discussions with TiVo about rolling out any new service.
> 
> *Michael White*
> 
> Sure. I mean, we've had an ongoing series of meetings with Tom Rogers and the TiVo team earlier this year. We're in the process of working with them. We've provided them specs for our box. And I think we expect them to have a box for us, an updated box, maybe the end of this year, maybe early next year. And probably don't know the specific date that Tom's got targeted, but we're working closely with them, and certainly expecting to see a new box out of them that would work on DIRECTV, sometime in the not-too-distant future.


I guess you could take that as the specs (or SOW) were finalized earlier this year. But let's remember, it takes two to tango on this one. One of the speculations of the delay has been Tivo having problems getting the Interactive stuff working (which they've always had problems with) or issues with the DirecTV VOD working. Heck, the delay could have even been they were planning on using the Premier UI and DirecTV said no to that after they saw it in action. We really don't know. But if we take it on face value we can say that Tivo and DirecTV *together* finalized the specs perhaps as late as early this year. Why the delay? Who knows.

And the 2nd part:


> *Thomas Eagan - Collins Stewart LLC*
> 
> Any thoughts on how the service or the futures would differ from what TiVo is rolling out now with RCN?
> 
> *Michael White*
> 
> To be honest with you, we're all working on a lot of the same things. I mean, we've got demos that we've looked at internally that include television apps that would enable you to look at YouTube on the television, that would enable you to do things with movies and photos, that do Video on Demand. So a lot of the same, what I'll call, the connected experience across your screens, we believe is quite strategic, and it's something we'll talk about as we kind of compete our strategy later this year. But the good news is we've been working on this area over the last year or two, both with our Home Media Center and our Multi-Room Viewing, and you'll see more of that later this year. *But to be honest with you, I didn't see anything in the functions and features, and we did see a demo of it, that was materially different in functions and features than the kinds of functions and features we've been looking to build into our Home Media Center in our Connected Lifestyle*


Last sentence emphasis is mine. Basically he's saying that he hasn't seen anything in the new Tivo box that has been shown to DirecTV that is anything above and beyond what they already have in the HR2x boxes or what they have in the pipeline themselves for the HMC due later this year.

So this certainly is interesting if Tivo expects to charge a premium for this box when it's features aren't any/much different then what is already available from DirecTV. Would the Tivo UI alone be enough for people to pay more? Probably not other then the die hard Tivo fans that haven't already left DirecTV. But that remains to be seen.


----------



## SullyND

shibby191 said:


> I guess you could take that as the specs (or SOW) were finalized earlier this year. But let's remember, it takes two to tango on this one. One of the speculations of the delay has been Tivo having problems getting the Interactive stuff working (which they've always had problems with) or issues with the DirecTV VOD working. Heck, the delay could have even been they were planning on using the Premier UI and DirecTV said no to that after they saw it in action.


I've been wondering if it was the processor change in the HR24 which didn't hold things up - maybe the original intent was for TiVo to be on the HR20-23 platform (which is more similar to the the TiVoHD) and they changed horses mid-stream to the new platform?


----------



## audvidman

*It's only a box, hardrive and a couple of blinking lights !!!!*


----------



## stevel

Ok. Go visit a RadioShack, buy a box, a hard drive and some blinking lights, and show us how it's done.


----------



## T1V0

audvidman said:


> *It's only a box, hardrive and a couple of blinking lights !!!!*


sure, it's taking a while, but.......

that's the dumbest post I've seen in a long time


----------



## litzdog911

Right audvidman. Makes perfect sense.


----------



## Series3Sub

This makes TiVo think that DirecTV still has this on the front burner. Probably more likely available by early next year, or at least as long as DirecTV can drag it out.


----------



## Wil

Series3Sub said:


> This makes TiVo think that DirecTV still has this on the front burner. Probably more likely available by early next year, or at least as long as DirecTV can drag it out.


At some point the DirecTV shills will be able to publicly brag that Tivo has been had. Which they have.

For now the notion must be maintained that there is some communication gap, that deadlines are being missed by one or both parties, that it's a generally confusing situation (obviously with Tivo more at fault than DirecTV). That's the mantra.

With the latest courtroom developments, I think DirecTV will try to push this forward to 2012 or later.

It is a very sad thing to harbor a decade-old regard for a company (Tivo) that has basically become a laughingstock.

"Hey, Tivo, would you mind leaving your demo prototype of the most significant consumer video invention in 30 years with us over the weekend so we can have out engineers tear it apart?" And that was when Tivo had some smart people!


----------



## tibber

Wil said:


> At some point the DirecTV shills will be able to publicly brag that Tivo has been had. Which they have.
> 
> For now the notion must be maintained that there is some communication gap, that deadlines are being missed by one or both parties, that it's a generally confusing situation (obviously with Tivo more at fault than DirecTV). That's the mantra.
> 
> With the latest courtroom developments, I think DirecTV will try to push this forward to 2012 or later.
> 
> It is a very sad thing to harbor a decade-old regard for a company (Tivo) that has basically become a laughingstock.
> 
> "Hey, Tivo, would you mind leaving your demo prototype of the most significant consumer video invention in 30 years with us over the weekend so we can have out engineers tear it apart?" And that was when Tivo had some smart people!


There are probably layers within DIRECTV (just as their are layers of interest in the marketplace.)

Some people want to see the TiVo right away. (Are we there yet?)

And others probably just don't care. They aren't going to hinder, but they don't care.

Near as I can tell, the information DIRECTV is required to present for TiVo is very minimal, especially since TiVo already has the bulk of the information about the DIRECTV streams in the first place.

It is amazing to me how slowly TiVo has been producing new products lately. The cable partnerships and DIRECTV both have taken incredible amounts of calendar time.

At some point it becomes apparent that DIRECTV isn't the holdup. Something at TiVo must be.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## HiDefGator

Wil said:


> "Hey, Tivo, would you mind leaving your demo prototype of the most significant consumer video invention in 30 years with us over the weekend so we can have out engineers tear it apart?" And that was when Tivo had some smart people!


standard industry practice. you do realize the day they sold the first Tivo anyone could go to the store, buy one, and take it apart?


----------



## Jeff412

I currently have Dish. I have had a TiVo since 1999. I love it, but have been forced to go to the Dish DVR. I hate it. I will swap back to direcTV as soon as the TiVo becomes available, but not until then. I don't know how many people there are like me, but I'd be willing to bet there are a few.

Jeff


----------



## tibber

Jeff412 said:


> I currently have Dish. I have had a TiVo since 1999. I love it, but have been forced to go to the Dish DVR. I hate it. I will swap back to direcTV as soon as the TiVo becomes available, but not until then. I don't know how many people there are like me, but I'd be willing to bet there are a few.
> 
> Jeff


Unless you are very busy posting under many names at several sites, I'm sure you are not alone. 

I see this as a potentially good thing for DIRECTV. It gives more options for the customers. And DIRECTV seems to be very customer focused; everyone there I talk to is.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## HiDefGator

wanna bet the first release of the new directivo is just as buggy as the first release of the premiere? I'm not sure I would swap back to directv as soon as its available. might want to give it six months first.


----------



## Jeff412

Yeah but a bad day with TiVo is better than the best day with dish DVr.



HiDefGator said:


> wanna bet the first release of the new directivo is just as buggy as the first release of the premiere? I'm not sure I would swap back to directv as soon as its available. might want to give it six months first.


----------



## HiDefGator

Jeff412 said:


> Yeah but a bad day with TiVo is better than the best day with dish DVr.


never used a dish dvr so I wouldn't know. but my hr20's are just as good as any of the tivo's I've owned.


----------



## tibber

Which does lead me to another thought.

The longer TiVo takes to get the new unit out, the more DIRECTV features they likely will have to support on day one. Putting them that much farther behind. Ouch.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Jeff412

HiDefGator said:


> never used a dish dvr so I wouldn't know. but my hr20's are just as good as any of the tivo's I've owned.


i'll give you an example; When you search for "A" with TiVo, you get every show that starts with "A" and they are alphabetically listed. When you search for "A" with Dish you get every show that has the letter "A" in it and they are listed by airtime and it lists every airing of every show with "A" in it. When you are using a DVR search functionality is very important. At least to me.

Jeff


----------



## shibby191

Jeff412 said:


> i'll give you an example; When you search for "A" with TiVo, you get every show that starts with "A" and they are alphabetically listed. When you search for "A" with Dish you get every show that has the letter "A" in it and they are listed by airtime and it lists every airing of every show with "A" in it. When you are using a DVR search functionality is very important. At least to me.
> 
> Jeff


Have you tried searching since DirecTV updated it to the smart search a few months ago? Last I used it you could do the same thing you're posting above. As I don't have DirecTV anymore I can't say for sure but I'm pretty sure you can.


----------



## Jeff412

I have Dish.

Jeff



shibby191 said:


> Have you tried searching since DirecTV updated it to the smart search a few months ago? Last I used it you could do the same thing you're posting above. As I don't have DirecTV anymore I can't say for sure but I'm pretty sure you can.


----------



## whitepelican

tibber said:


> Which does lead me to another thought.
> 
> The longer TiVo takes to get the new unit out, the more DIRECTV features they likely will have to support on day one. Putting them that much farther behind. Ouch.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Yeah, Tivo's gonna have to learn how to alphabetize incorrectly, put ads in the guide, reduce the number of lines of information in both the guide & list, and give you search results for channels you don't actually receive. "Catching up" might take awhile.


----------



## HiDefGator

Jeff412 said:


> i'll give you an example; When you search for "A" with TiVo, you get every show that starts with "A" and they are alphabetically listed. When you search for "A" with Dish you get every show that has the letter "A" in it and they are listed by airtime and it lists every airing of every show with "A" in it. When you are using a DVR search functionality is very important. At least to me.
> 
> Jeff


that sounds pretty lame.


----------



## ADent

I don't know what everyone is so worked up about. TiVo has a Terrible history working with other companies.

Remember the AOLTiVo? Announced 6/14/2000. TiVo features to show up in AOLTV in early 2001. Deal killed on 5/1/2002

Remember Blockbuster TiVo? 1/7/2000 and "Blockbuster has inked a deal with the company to deliver content through TiVo boxes" . 10/13/2009 Blockbuster streaming is actually available. 

Comcast TiVo? 3/15/2005 TiVo and Comcast announce joint venture. 1/9/2007 TiVo SW for Comcast announced and shown at CES. 11/2/2007 TiVo page goes live on Comcast website. 1/22/2008 first deployment of software. 5/19/2010 TiVo software still not available nationally. There are 14 (yes 14) threads with posts from all of 2010 in the Comcast TiVo forum - so it seems like there are about 10 units in use out there.

DirecTV MPEG4 HD DVR - 9/3/2008 announced - to be available "during the second half of 2009". 5/19/2010 - still no sightings, delayed to 4Q 2010.


----------



## cypher50

Good news: channel 582 on my channel guide shows "Upcoming: TiVo Channel 1 Test."


----------



## shibby191

cypher50 said:


> Good news: channel 582 on my channel guide shows "Upcoming: TiVo Channel 1 Test."


Ummm, you do realize that 582 is the channel the DirecTivo's use to record the showcases and other data and been that way for nearly a decade, right?


----------



## litzdog911

cypher50 said:


> Good news: channel 582 on my channel guide shows "Upcoming: TiVo Channel 1 Test."


Sorry, that's nothing special.


----------



## bmesc

A couple of years ago, when my original Tivo/Directv box died, I had to go with the Directv box. I hated it. Terrible remote and functionality. After giving it a few months, I switched to a Tivo standard definition DVR and signed a long term agreement. Then I got a nice new plasma and upgraded to HD service but I still had a standard def DVR. But, I heard about an upcoming DirectTV/Tivo HD DVR in the 4th qtr of 09 so I figured I bear it out and wait for that so I could still keep using my long term Tivo service. Then the delays. Then I got a new LCD TV for the bedroom and Directv was having a special with a free upgrade to a DirecTV HD DVR, so I got it. Now I have HD recording in the bedroom, but not the living room. The thing is, I discovered the Directv DVR service was *much improved* over the last time I used it a couple of years earlier (and appears to keep adding improvements versus a stagnant Tivo service). Easier to navigate, has most of the Tivo functionality now, and is even preferable to Tivo in some areas. Now DirecTV has a new whole house HD DVR box and I still have no word when the Tivo/Directv box is due and I'm just about fed up with waiting. I think I'm going to have to abandon the Tivo subscription and switch to DirecTV. I used to be a supporter of Tivo, but they apparently think they can drag their feet forever and never lose a customer. Too bad.


----------



## Daniel

In the investor conference call today, TiVo reiterated that they hope to have the new DirecTiVo out by the end of the year.


----------



## HiDefGator

Daniel said:


> In the investor conference call today, TiVo reiterated that they hope to have the new DirecTiVo out by the end of the year.


did they say this year?


----------



## sluciani

Daniel said:


> In the investor conference call today, TiVo reiterated that they hope to have the new DirecTiVo out by the end of the year.


If so, it might be in beta by now.

Anyone hear any rumors about whether or not a beta is in progress?


----------



## stevel

I have seen not a peep. DirecTV is very good about keeping a lid on its hardware betas.

Given timeframes of previous DirecTV hardware launches, I doubt a beta will start before July-August.


----------



## eddyj

So, where do I fill out that form to be considered for Beta testing? I did that before and would not mind doing it again!


----------



## stevel

www.tivo.com/beta Don't get your hopes up. I'd be somewhat astonished if DirecTV used this information.


----------



## shibby191

From what I've read DirecTV really won't have anything to do with running the beta testing (certainly not in the CE program). This is Tivo's baby and it's up to them to beta test it.


----------



## sluciani

shibby191 said:


> From what I've read DirecTV really won't have anything to do with running the beta testing (certainly not in the CE program). This is Tivo's baby and it's up to them to beta test it.


That was my impression too. That said, they'll need to work with DirecTV to get beta hardware authorized on folks accounts.


----------



## eddyj

stevel said:


> www.tivo.com/beta Don't get your hopes up. I'd be somewhat astonished if DirecTV used this information.


That's how they found me for the Beta I did or one of the DirecTiVos.


----------



## cantil

Just have not heard of Amy updates just wondering If anyone has heard anything and also I filed a beta app here's to the long wait


----------



## stevel

The only "new" is that the new box won't be here until late 2010 if not early 2011 - at least. I'm skeptical that the beta application will do any good.


----------



## cantil

So today all 5 of my HD dvrs crashed I could not change any of the boxes I never had that issue with my old sd TiVo units I also miss the rating of shows and I loved the box finding shows I might like and recording them for me when I had nothing set up to record


----------



## bigpuma

cantil said:


> So today all 5 of my HD dvrs crashed I could not change any of the boxes I never had that issue with my old sd TiVo units I also miss the rating of shows and I loved the box finding shows I might like and recording them for me when I had nothing set up to record


in case you didn't see this elsewhere everyone is having this problem and it seems to require 2 Red Button restarts to fix it.


----------



## cantil

bigpuma said:


> in case you didn't see this elsewhere everyone is having this problem and it seems to require 2 Red Button restarts to fix it.


Yes I seen that the point was not I did not know what to do it was that I never had a problem Luke this when I had my TiVo units. But thanks for tring to help with what to do to fix the issue


----------



## shibby191

And FYI that previous problems similar to this have indeed effected Tivo units as well. Just depends on the type of problem. And this new DirecTivo HD unit...being on the same HR hardware and using the same guide data stream...would probably have had the same problem. Tivo isn't going to save you from guide data hiccups.


----------



## ZardozTX

You may have experienced a transmission glitch to your DIRECTV service. DIRECTV has fixed the problem and automatically reset the receivers. There's nothing further that you need to do. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this technical issue has caused.


----------



## lma574

Like many others, I am a DirecTV customer with an old SD Phillips DSR7000/17 (weaknees upgraded). This box has been a champ for me. It's lasted many years with no issue. I want HI DEF but have seen and am HORRIBLY UNIMPRESSED with DirecTV's DVR. I will not own one. I have been holding out for a DirecTV HD TiVO .

NOW, my old Phillips is starting to have problems and I know it's only a matter of time. It resets itself at random (about once a day). 
It has a couple of bad spots on the disk (that I have isolated by leaving old recordings on those spots). Now, my second tuner is having problems - digitzing and other digital trash in the recordings when they record on that tuner. It only does this on channels above channel 200. So I can still use it for local channels, etc, and the other tuner is fine. 

So, while I am able to work around the issues for now, I see the writing on the wall. I have truly been holding out for the new TiVO but it keeps getting delayed. I don't know what to do. I don't think my old box will last that long and I don't have a lot of money to buy something, just to turn around and replace it when the new TiVO comes out ... 

Ugh ... Someone said I should temp. buy another DSR7000/17 on ebay for cheap, but how will if know if I am getting a good box or a boat anchor mode/unusable/bad box?

This is really bugging me .... 
Any help other than the standard TiVO bashing that I had already read so far (having read through most of this thread now)?

LM


----------



## Rainy Dave

You could find someone (like me) that would be willing to sell you their old DVR40 (with a 250 gig drive).


----------



## shibby191

lma574 said:


> So, while I am able to work around the issues for now, I see the writing on the wall. I have truly been holding out for the new TiVO but it keeps getting delayed. I don't know what to do. I don't think my old box will last that long and I don't have a lot of money to buy something, just to turn around and replace it when the new TiVO comes out ...


No bashing but in your position you can probably get a totally *free* HD upgrade that would include the new Dish, switch and HR2x receiver. Then when (if) the new Tivo unit comes out you can pay to upgrade to that *or* your HR2x "mysteriously" starts having problems which will then be replaced for free since it's leased and you can work on getting the Tivo unit to replace it. 

Too bad you didn't do that 2 yrs ago. You would have enjoyed all the HD in the meantime, would be out of the commitment now and if the Tivo unit never comes out you could leave with no issues. Oh well, water under the bridge at this point.


----------



## austinsho

lma574 said:


> ?
> 
> This is really bugging me ....
> Any help other than the standard TiVO bashing that I had already read so far (having read through most of this thread now)?
> 
> LM


Man, nothing personal, but you're allowing your own love of a certain piece of electronic equipment to deny you the pleasure of watching some stunning pictures! Just go get the basic DirecTV HD DVR and upgrade to Tivo when it becomes available.

You will not regret it.


----------



## ADent

lma574 said:


> Any help other than the standard TiVO bashing that I had already read so far (having read through most of this thread now)?
> 
> LM


Since you posted this on the new DirecTiVo thread - the only help is to wait for the new DirecTiVo. From past history, it will most likely be (quite) awhile.

If you want DirecTV and TiVo NOW, you will have to buy used. eBay or Weaknees or such.


----------



## austinsho

Buy used? Buy _what_ used? AFAIK his only option is to get a separate DirecTV receiver/HD Tivo combo, yes? He doesn't want any of the new DirecTV equipment and the HR10-250s are dead as far as any DirecTV-delivered HD.


----------



## Wil

austinsho said:


> Buy used? Buy _what_ used?


He's asking about replacing an SD Phillips DSR7000. He has lots of used options.

A Tivo HR10 might even offer him HiDef OTA. while we wait for DirecTV to offer a new DTivo model, if they ever do.


----------



## KyooMac

You can buy used HR10-250's on ebay for a song.


----------



## Chapel

really getting sick of the DTV DVR... only 50 shows in the series manager is what kills it for me. Also it's recording algorithms are retarded. if there's a conflict, FIND ANOTHER SHOWING!

My wife and I are patiently waiting for our new TiVo. We absolutely hate the DVR


----------



## shibby191

Chapel said:


> Also it's recording algorithms are retarded. if there's a conflict, FIND ANOTHER SHOWING!


Ummm, it does. Always has. Just like Tivo and most other DVRs it'll pick up a later showing (assuming guide data is accurate of course).


----------



## Tigerdog1

I have DirecTV with seven receivers. Currently, only one is HD, but now I have a new Sony Bravia in the main room. I have two TiVo DVR's (Hughes), but they're not HD, including one in the main room. I have four standard non HD receivers in other rooms, and I have the one HD DVR that's not TiVo.

My HD quit working six months ago and when I called DirecTV, they wanted me to pay for someone to come out and fix it, or sign up for a monthly service plan. I refused. This is their equipment that I'm paying a monthly fee for, and it doesn't work. The problem is with the dish, so I canceled HD completely. 

When I inquired about setting up HD service, they wanted $ 200 plus an installation fee to fix or replace their broken dish, plus a two year commitment. I was even ready to do this, but they wouldn't give me a date until I gave my card. So I did, and the date was two weeks off. I canceled the order.

Now, here I sit with two HD televisions and no HD programming. I'm not even sure it's worth getting, but I'd be interested if they had TiVo. My interests are sports, news, sports, and sports. I have considered switching to cable also. I'm pizzed at DirecTV right now. 

Suggestions?


----------



## HiDefGator

maybe you can find a company whose products are not in demand that can come sooner. or maybe wait three weeks and then try again and see if their wait is shorter then. 

the leading provider of HD and sports offered to come install a new dish and HD DVR for $200 and you can't wait 2 weeks for it to happen?


----------



## shibby191

LOL. It would be cheaper to have the protection plan for a year.


----------



## innocentfreak

It is amazing the lies directv will tell to try and get people to come back. They called me last night and it was pure entertainment.


----------



## HiDefGator

innocentfreak said:


> It is amazing the lies directv will tell to try and get people to come back. They called me last night and it was pure entertainment.


Yep. When you hire salespeople and pay them based on performance it's amazing the crap they will come up with.


----------



## innocentfreak

HiDefGator said:


> Yep. When you hire salespeople and pay them based on performance it's amazing the crap they will come up with.


Yeah it was many of the same lies retention told me when I left and they told my mom when she left. It is no different then their crappy installers though.


----------



## ClubrhythmEnt

*Sigh* I beta'ed the HR10-250 many moons ago and OVER A YEAR AGO I got an e-mail from TiVo asking to opt in or out of beta testing the new DirecTivo box.

After "opting in" I have not heard a peep. Not a damn thing. It's been so long I can't even find the e-mail. I thought maybe they forgot about me but it looks like, after reading all the posts from people who signed up to beta test the new unit at Tivo.com, that no one has heard anything. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. 

I don't know what sort of field testing there will be for the new DirecTivo but I can definitively say that their marketing plan is a complete FAIL. :down:


----------



## litzdog911

ClubrhythmEnt said:


> ....
> 
> I don't know what sort of field testing there will be for the new DirecTivo but I can definitively say that their marketing plan is a complete FAIL. :down:


Or perhaps the R&D team is taking longer than anticipated. This seems to be Tivo's mode of operation.


----------



## Wil

litzdog911 said:


> Or perhaps the R&D team is taking longer than anticipated. This seems to be Tivo's mode of operation.


The Tivo people with high-double-digit or triple-digit IQs left notes, I'm sure, before they left. Tivo still knows Tivo 101 (which is all the new DirecTV version will be, at best).

Personally, I don't blame my sub-contractors if I'm having trouble getting product out. I fix the trouble. Does DirecTV have that kind of management? I haven't seen any indication.


----------



## Tigerdog1

HiDefGator said:


> maybe you can find a company whose products are not in demand that can come sooner. or maybe wait three weeks and then try again and see if their wait is shorter then.
> 
> the leading provider of HD and sports offered to come install a new dish and HD DVR for $200 and you can't wait 2 weeks for it to happen?


Why should I pay them to come and fix their broken dish that I've been paying for every month? It's not MY equipment. THEIR equipment failed and they want me to pay for them to fix it. Even if I bought my own equipment, they want another two year commitment from me. What will they commit to for two years?

Just before they gave me the install date, they told me that it normally gets installed within 72 hours, but she wouldn't know until she ran my card. Never mind that I've been paying my bill on time for ten years, they wouldn't do it that way. Then, when she gave me the date, it was the last straw. I can have a friend tweak the dish settings and get HD to work, but at this point, I'll wait and see what TIVO has to offer.

I still get all my programming, it's just not in HD, and I don't have to change out my current TiVo receiver for a DirecTV DVR. I have one of those and I don't like it.

Time Warner offers the same programming, and if I bundle it with hi speed internet service, it actually works out less. I'm just upset with DirecTV right now.


----------



## litzdog911

Wil said:


> The Tivo people with high-double-digit or triple-digit IQs left notes, I'm sure, before they left. Tivo still knows Tivo 101 (which is all the new DirecTV version will be, at best).
> 
> Personally, I don't blame my sub-contractors if I'm having trouble getting product out. I fix the trouble. Does DirecTV have that kind of management? I haven't seen any indication.


You mean Tivo management, right? It's Tivo's product to design and get out the door.


----------



## Wil

litzdog911 said:


> It's Tivo's product


OK. So I can buy it from Tivo when it's ready?


----------



## shibby191

Tigerdog1 said:


> Why should I pay them to come and fix their broken dish that I've been paying for every month? It's not MY equipment. THEIR equipment failed and they want me to pay for them to fix it.


FYI...I guess you don't realize that you do *own* the dish itself. And the switches and cabling. The only thing you lease that DirecTV owns are the receivers.

So if your dish breaks, it's up to you to fix it. You may work out a deal with DirecTV but that's up to you or fix it yourself. They do offer the protection plan if you don't want to worry about it, then they will fix it for free (for the cost of the protection plan of course).

Dish Network works the same.

Heck, local cable companies even work the same and offer protection plans. Around here anyway.

I understand your complaint, but if you can't fix it yourself and can't work a deal with DirecTV then get the protection plan, it's made for you. I had a bad LNB once and just bought a replacement on the Internet and replaced it myself, didn't involve DirecTV at all.


----------



## stevel

Wil said:


> OK. So I can buy it from Tivo when it's ready?


You've never been able to buy DTiVos from TiVo. This won't be any different.


----------



## Wil

stevel said:


> You've never been able to buy DTiVos from TiVo. This won't be any different.


The dog maintained it was a Tivo product. Glad we've clarified that.


----------



## stevel

Well, he's right in that TiVo is responsible for the box design and making the final design available to DirecTV for its subcontractors to build. Unless there's something we don't know about, the onus is on TiVo to get it done.


----------



## shibby191

stevel said:


> Well, he's right in that TiVo is responsible for the box design and making the final design available to DirecTV for its subcontractors to build. Unless there's something we don't know about, the onus is on TiVo to get it done.


Yep.

In the last DirecTV conference call the CEO said they were waiting on Tivo to deliver the product by end of 2010/early 2011. That is where the often quoted dates come from.

Note that DirecTV said they are waiting on Tivo to deliver. I don't know how much clearer then that it can be that we are all waiting on Tivo for this thing. DirecTV afterall has contracted out to Tivo to build and deliver it. No idea why some people want to put the onus on DirecTV for it. They will sell it once Tivo finally delivers.

Do note I'm not bringing anything about delay's into the equation. Who knows why it's been delayed, could be anything from Tivo over promising to DirecTV not giving them a hardware spec right away. But in the end, it's Tivo that's building it and as of May at least, DirecTV is waiting for it.


----------



## rescue25

Well here is my spin on things.

I had a CSR talked down to a new dvr and I continued to press for more freebies and got switched to a manager and he ended up rescinding the free hd dvr and said that I would only get a 100.00 discount toward a new hd dvr. I get the feeling that they just don't give a HOOT about keeping customers and now I am looking at getting cable. 

With bundled pricing net phone and so forth combined with phone Internet, programming I can save about 100.00/month. That is the best I can come up with. and I am thinking that I will get a cable tivo dvr if the dvr that comes from the cable co. I can no longer afford my dedicated dsl complete connections and cell all in one. and I am considering updating my phone to the 4g iPhone so that means I will have to go to ATT so I can get the phone I want and still come out paying a bit less in the long run.


----------



## Wil

shibby191 said:


> In the last DirecTV conference call the CEO said they were waiting on Tivo to deliver the product by end of 2010/early 2011.


During this same conference call, DirecTV announced _for the first time_ that it had provided product specs to Tivo. Nice to hear some progress has been made.


----------



## Chris Gerhard

stevel said:


> You've never been able to buy DTiVos from TiVo. This won't be any different.


I am pretty sure I purchased my first TiVo, a Phillips DSR6000, directly from TiVo in October 2000 as part of a TiVo friends and family promotion. I then paid DirecTV separately for the lifetime subscription or maybe I paid TiVo for that as well, I don't recall. Not that that matters now as I agree any DirecTV TiVo will not be purchased from TiVo when the new product is available.

Chris


----------



## shibby191

Wil said:


> During this same conference call, DirecTV announced _for the first time_ that it had provided product specs to Tivo. Nice to hear some progress has been made.


True. Then again, it was the first time since the original announcement (what, almost 2 yrs now?) that anyone from the media or investors actually asked DirecTV about Tivo. So it really wasn't an "announcement" more then answering a question that has never been asked.


----------



## Tigerdog1

shibby191 said:


> I understand your complaint, but if you can't fix it yourself and can't work a deal with DirecTV then get the protection plan, it's made for you. I had a bad LNB once and just bought a replacement on the Internet and replaced it myself, didn't involve DirecTV at all.


I can either fix the dish or get someone to fix it. Instead, I just canceled my HD programming for now. What irks me much more is that they want to charge me $ 200 for a box, then charge a lease fee for it, and take it back if I cancel. The two year commitment is the deal killer for me.

I'm just fed up with all the charges on top of charges, and the attitude of their customer service reps has gone way down hill. I am seriously looking at alternatives, and I may just switch over to Time Warner cable, and get the TiVo premier.

Now, I'm not getting the MLB network channel on one of my sets, it won't come back when I reboot, and I dread calling customer service, only to be routed through 14 levels of options that have nothing to do with the problem. DirecTV was much better when I first signed up ten years ago.


----------



## elric1v

I've found that you can often fix many hard drive problems (at least temporarily) by issuing the following command:

dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hda bs=512 conv=sync,noerror

I have a job that does this periodically on my Tivos, but you can also hook the drives up to a PC and boot a linux CD (might end up as /dev/hdc instead). This reads and then re-writes every sector, one at a time (takes quite a while). If it finds a bad one, it just writes zeroes. The drive controller will remap bad sectors on a write, and this will often stop the controller from re-trying reads until the tivo reboots. If the damage is localized, you might not have another problem, but in most cases this is a stopgap measure to get another year or two out of a failing drive. I've been doing this for a while on my DS6000 and on my HR10-250.



lma574 said:


> NOW, my old Phillips is starting to have problems and I know it's only a matter of time. It resets itself at random (about once a day).
> It has a couple of bad spots on the disk (that I have isolated by leaving old recordings on those spots).
> LM


----------



## litzdog911

elric1v said:


> I've found that you can often fix many hard drive problems (at least temporarily) by issuing the following command:
> 
> dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hda bs=512 conv=sync,noerror
> 
> I have a job that does this periodically on my Tivos, but you can also hook the drives up to a PC and boot a linux CD (might end up as /dev/hdc instead). This reads and then re-writes every sector, one at a time (takes quite a while). If it finds a bad one, it just writes zeroes. The drive controller will remap bad sectors on a write, and this will often stop the controller from re-trying reads until the tivo reboots. If the damage is localized, you might not have another problem, but in most cases this is a stopgap measure to get another year or two out of a failing drive. I've been doing this for a while on my DS6000 and on my HR10-250.


Welcome to Tivo Community. But why did you post this here???


----------



## jonbig

elric1v said:


> I've found that you can often fix many hard drive problems (at least temporarily) by issuing the following command:
> 
> dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hda bs=512 conv=sync,noerror
> 
> I have a job that does this periodically on my Tivos, but you can also hook the drives up to a PC and boot a linux CD (might end up as /dev/hdc instead). This reads and then re-writes every sector, one at a time (takes quite a while). If it finds a bad one, it just writes zeroes. The drive controller will remap bad sectors on a write, and this will often stop the controller from re-trying reads until the tivo reboots. If the damage is localized, you might not have another problem, but in most cases this is a stopgap measure to get another year or two out of a failing drive. I've been doing this for a while on my DS6000 and on my HR10-250.


Do NOT do this on your TiVo when it is booted. It *will* hose your filesystem someday, since the rewrites are *not* coordinated with those done by the OS and TiVo applications.

If you're using this to get "one or two years" from a failing drive, it's much, much better to use a procedure like this to copy over to a clean drive instead.


----------



## Fireaxe

Tigerdog1 said:


> DirecTV was much better when I first signed up ten years ago.


I hear you brother.

I was also a plank owner in the DirecTV (DSS) /TiVo roll-out all those years ago. A great service with a fantastic product. Friendly customer service reps who were grateful your years of loyal patronage.

After waiting a few years, I finally bought a DirecTV DVR. What a disaster. When I called to cancel that box I was told I was only leasing it. That was it. I drop kicked DirecTV and bought cable ready TiVos. 2 HD series threes and 3 series twos.

I don't miss DirecTV for a second. Every time I see a DirecTV ad on TV I hear the arrogant, sneering voice of the DirecTV customer abuse (service) rep and want to throw something at the set.

I doubt I'll return to DirecTV even if they finally offer a TiVo based box.

Thanks for letting me vent here. Sorry.


----------



## Tigerdog1

They have the sports packages, Extra Innings and Center Ice
I have seven rooms with boxes, two HD sets and five not
I have three sets, including the 2 HD rooms, that have DVR's

What does DirecTV have that I'd be missing? Is it just about the cost of the package?


----------



## bigpuma

Tigerdog1 said:


> They have the sports packages, Extra Innings and Center Ice
> I have seven rooms with boxes, two HD sets and five not
> I have three sets, including the 2 HD rooms, that have DVR's
> 
> What does DirecTV have that I'd be missing? Is it just about the cost of the package?


The DVR cost for DirecTV is $7 for all of your DVRs. Cable or TiVo will charge you for each DVR on your account. Other than that you would have to compare packages. It is very difficult to determine as each cable company is so different and even the same cable company varies by area.


----------



## shibby191

Agreed. Simply take a piece of paper and draw a line down the middle. DirecTV on one side, TWC on the other and simply list out all costs and all pros and cons. Only you can determine what you lose or gain.


----------



## 1999cobra

I am also looking at the potential of having to drop DTV as it's simply a matter of money. I can't afford to pay two different vendors when I can get a substantial break by receiving all services from one TWC. The money is at least $80 a month ...


----------



## eric_n_dfw

Tigerdog1 said:


> They have the sports packages, Extra Innings and Center Ice
> I have seven rooms with boxes, two HD sets and five not
> I have three sets, including the 2 HD rooms, that have DVR's
> 
> What does DirecTV have that I'd be missing? Is it just about the cost of the package?


Not sure if DirecTV has multi-room or "whole-house" DVR yet, but TWC puts the most restrictive CCI DRM flag on all of their channels (except the ones that are OTA broadcast) - so Tivo Multi-Room Viewing will be unusable for their content.


----------



## Enrique

eric_n_dfw said:


> Not sure if DirecTV has multi-room or "whole-house" DVR yet


They do and they don't restrict the content in terms of MRV.


----------



## cantil

So i just moved to my new home i have 4hddvr and 1 hd reciver when i did the movers connection i recived one new hddvr for 99.00 free hd reciver and free mrv setup. Also the mvr they installed shares all the dvrs in my home and the internet connection for on-Demand for all tvs. So far i been really happy getting used to the new setup took a day and going around the house and removing dubbles of programs off the recivers. i am sad i could not keep my old phillips tivo unil but i am so far happy with what i have now and i hope when the new Directivo comes out i will be able to add it to my current setup but until then i got the best i can hope for as for cable my bill would be insane for 5 of their hddvrs at around 15.00 a month each one so i will stay with directv and hope for Tivo to hurry up  and as for content i have not found any i cant watch from any of my tv's i have in my home with the mrv


----------



## brentsg

I called today trying to press for information on the TiVo. I don't care when it comes out, but I want to make sure that I can get one when it does.

I am considering coming back after a lengthy absence that was driven by poor support, after 15 years as a customer (w/Sunday Ticket and NHL too). I had needed a new dish as mine was ancient, and they wanted to stick it to me with the charges. They refused to help out on the fees so I canceled and they didn't seem to care at all. Of course I immediately started getting all kinds of offers in the mail after I left. 

Anyways they won't make any promises. I offered to sign up for new service today if they would simply agree to swap my DVR out for a TiVo box once available. I was also going to sign up for Sunday Ticket. No dice though..


----------



## brentsg

Fireaxe said:


> I doubt I'll return to DirecTV even if they finally offer a TiVo based box.
> 
> Thanks for letting me vent here. Sorry.


I had a similar experience. After leaving they tried to bill me for not returning an ancient SD DirecTivo that I bought straight up. It way predated the lease BS.


----------



## shibby191

brentsg said:


> Anyways they won't make any promises. I offered to sign up for new service today if they would simply agree to swap my DVR out for a TiVo box once available. I was also going to sign up for Sunday Ticket. No dice though..


Not sure how they can promise you anything today in terms of swapping to a product that just doesn't exist. Once it finally gets announced as available on a certain date with pricing and all that, then they can work swap deals. But they certainly can't do that for something that doesn't exist, who knows what the price will be and who knows when it will come out (if at all). I'm sure you can understand that. What if they give you the promise of some deal and then it doesn't come out for another year or maybe doesn't come out at all and then you get all pissed off because of that. Better to not make promises for something that isn't out yet.


----------



## Admdata

> I had a similar experience. After leaving they tried to bill me for not returning an ancient SD DirecTivo that I bought straight up. It way predated the lease BS.


hmm.... thats odd I took off a directv reciver box off my account (not a dvr) a regular box (a leased box mine you) and never asked for it back or charged me for it. I still have it after 7 months of it not actived still works on channel 100 only.

go fig!


----------



## brentsg

shibby191 said:


> Not sure how they can promise you anything today in terms of swapping to a product that just doesn't exist. Once it finally gets announced as available on a certain date with pricing and all that, then they can work swap deals. But they certainly can't do that for something that doesn't exist, who knows what the price will be and who knows when it will come out (if at all). I'm sure you can understand that. What if they give you the promise of some deal and then it doesn't come out for another year or maybe doesn't come out at all and then you get all pissed off because of that. Better to not make promises for something that isn't out yet.


Nevertheless, I called back and spoke to a different CSR. He was happy to mark my account with a note that I was to be upgraded to the new TiVo box when it's available, as a swap for my current DVR.

I doubt it'll mean squat down the road but it doesn't ever hurt to try.


----------



## lvsaint

Called in today to activate an R10 receiver to replace my dying Philips 708. (Crap picture on the R10 by the way, but at least no pixellation. )

One of the people on the other end of the phone told me that Beta testing was underway on the new units and they might be available within a couple of weeks. But then talking to another person, they informed me that Tivo were no longer working with DTV and their DVR service was pretty decent.......blah blah blah.

So. No change. Nobody working there really knows anything...


----------



## shibby191

Keep in mind that front line CSR's don't know *anything* about the companies long term plans and future releases. *You* know more then they do. Seriously. Asking them questions like this should be viewed as just entertainment on your part, not actually trying to get real information.

This isn't to speak ill of the CSRs but it is a high turnover job with little training and their whole world is their call scripts. They really don't know much beyond that for the most part.


----------



## MannyE

I'm still running my Phillips Tivo from 1999 and my two GXCEBOTs but my recently built HTPC and the constant delays of the new DirecTivo are making me wonder why I don't just cancel everything, go with my OTA for locals and download whatever I may be missing from FX or Comedy Central. Then again, I may be able to live without new episodes of Futurama after all.


----------



## eddyj

MannyE said:


> I'm still running my Phillips Tivo from 1999 and my two GXCEBOTs but my recently built HTPC and the constant delays of the new DirecTivo are making me wonder why I don't just cancel everything, go with my OTA for locals and download whatever I may be missing from FX or Comedy Central. Then again, I may be able to live without new episodes of Futurama after all.


Every month, when I pay the DIRECTV bill, I ask myself the same question.


----------



## bigpuma

eddyj said:


> Every month, when I pay the DIRECTV bill, I ask myself the same question.


If it wasn't for sports I might just get rid of DirecTV and go with some type of Apple TV type of device and netflix. Alas I have to have my live HD sports and NFLST. It's my vice.


----------



## shibby191

bigpuma said:


> If it wasn't for sports I might just get rid of DirecTV and go with some type of Apple TV type of device and netflix. Alas I have to have my live HD sports and NFLST. It's my vice.


You can get NFL ST online only now without a DirecTV subscription so you could now get all major sports streaming (in HD) via a HTPC. So it's possible now. 

FYI I've had an HTPC for over a year now with just OTA, Hulu, Netflix and network web sites and I don't miss anything. Wife likes it too, especially saving over $100 a month.


----------



## bengalfreak

shibby191 said:


> You can get NFL ST online only now without a DirecTV subscription so you could now get all major sports streaming (in HD) via a HTPC. So it's possible now.


Only if DirecTV is not available to you for some reason.


----------



## shibby191

bengalfreak said:


> Only if DirecTV is not available to you for some reason.


Nope, that is not a requirement. Check their FAQ online (and a big thread on DBSTalk about it). As of this season DirecTV will sell Sunday Ticket ToGo (online only) service to anybody without DirecTV, period. Doesn't matter if you can get DirecTV or not. Like they would send a tech out to check anyway, that would cost them more money then they would make selling it. 

So as of now, Sunday Ticket is available to 100% of the country that either has DirecTV *or* fast enough broadband service.


----------



## Tigerdog1

bigpuma said:


> If it wasn't for sports I might just get rid of DirecTV and go with some type of Apple TV type of device and netflix. Alas I have to have my live HD sports and NFLST. It's my vice.


I guess that's one of my big concerns that keeps me with DirecTV. I still get the MLB and NHL packages, but canceled the Sunday Ticket (Detroiter here, living in So Cal, you understand the priorities). I've figured out that ATT U Verse does not have my programming, but TWC cable does.

Has anyone switched from DTV to TWC and gotten their TIVO product? Once again, I have two TIVO receivers now, but they're not HD, and I have two HDTV's, but my other five sets are not HD.

Cost wise, it seems that I save on the phone/ internet package as I already have TWC as my ISP. At least for the two year intro, I'd save every month, but I want all my programming and a TIVO that works well with my HD and non HD sets.


----------



## RickL66

I hate US Cable. I am so ready to switch to something else, but can't live without my Tivo. Is this Tivo/DTV still happening? (I know I should read this thread, I read about three pages, but most of you guys are going off-topic).


----------



## dswallow

RickL66 said:


> I hate US Cable. I am so ready to switch to something else, but can't live without my Tivo. Is this Tivo/DTV still happening? (I know I should read this thread, I read about three pages, but most of you guys are going off-topic).


Are glaciers still moving? Are mountains still rising? Is the Universe still expanding?

Yes, and at about the same speed TiVo is making any progress on anything, if not a little faster.


----------



## RickL66

dswallow said:


> Are glaciers still moving? Are mountains still rising? Is the Universe still expanding?
> 
> Yes, and at about the same speed TiVo is making any progress on anything, if not a little faster.


LOL... Thanks. sigh.


----------



## marrone

I'm holding my wife off as much as possible for going HD, and dealing with a tuner on my Hughes (yeah, there's a thread on how to fix it, I'm too chicken) because there's no good HD DirecTivos. If our TV goes, though, she's gonna wanna replace it. And I don't wanna give up my DirecTivo.

Hurry up guys!

-Mike


----------



## dshinnick

Sure would be nice to know if they're really still working on it, or have put it on the shelf for now. We're going to go satellite within the next 4 months or so, and if I don't have any indication that the new Directivo project is still alive, I'm going to have to (be forced to) go Dish.


----------



## Syzygy

On August 25, TiVo CEO Tom Rogers made a passing reference to the much-delayed MPEG-4 TiVo. These comments are from another TC thread, *DirecTV HDTV TiVo Powered PVRs*:


sluciani said:


> Yesterday, Tom Rogers again mentioned end of year for the new DirecTiVo in the analyst call...





davezatz said:


> I think it's quite possible release could slip into 2011... Even Tom Rogers left the door open yesterday during the Q&A:
> 
> "it's something that we hope to be able to push out late this year."


----------



## Ken Crane

http://seekingalpha.com/article/222...1-results-earnings-call-transcript?part=qanda

Question-and-Answer Session

David Miller  Caris & Company

Yes, hi, guys. Congratulations on the stellar print, just a couple of questions. Tom, could you give us a sense of what the pent-up demand is? This is just somewhat of a rhetorical question, but just your overall subjective yield of what the pent-up demand is for this DIRECTV HD-TiVo combo box thats about to come out. Can you give us a date of what the deployment would be coming up in the late fall?

Tom Rogers - CEO Tivo

As to the DIRECTV box that we are developing, its something that we hope to be able to push out late this year. We continually hear, as DIRECTV does, from current and former TiVo subscribers through DIRECTV that they want the new HD box. We believe the demand is strong particularly among existing and former TiVo subscribers. There are a good 1.5 million or so DIRECTV subscribers who are former TiVo subscribers just to give you some sense of the number of people that have been exposed to TiVo through DIRECTV in the past. So, we are believing it will be a strong offering, once were able to get it out.


----------



## catocony

So, 1.5 Million ex-DirecTivo folks have either jumped ship from DirecTV in general or moved to the Hughes boxes. Great for the props in acknowledging them. Now, how about a little something for those of us still using 5 year old (minimum) gear AT THIS VERY SECOND?


----------



## fasTLane

I will give them until 3rd quarter 2012. If my 5 year old HR10-250 hangs on until then, I will be impressed.


----------



## Syzygy

My over-6-year-old HR10-250 still performs flawlessly every day (for my wife). Every few months or so, it might need to be rebooted.

I sure hope the new MPEG-4 TiVo isn't delayed until 3rd quarter 2012.


----------



## HiDefGator

I think after 5 years with the same box they lump you into that group of grandmothers who will never upgrade no matter what new box comes along.


----------



## Syzygy

Fiddlesticks! I gave my original 14-hour Series 1 TiVo from 1999 (which I had field-modified to 76 hours) to my son in 2004, and he's using it right now.


----------



## fasTLane

HiDefGator said:


> I think after 5 years with the same box they lump you into that group of grandmothers who will never upgrade no matter what new box comes along.


*Young Whippersnapper!!*

All the grandma's I know are on Dish network with NO interest in time shift tech. LOL


----------



## rhuntington3

My Series1 DirecTivo from 2001 is still working fine although it did get a new hard drive in 2006.


----------



## msmart

I use our S2 TCD540040 in conjunction with our DirecTV R16-300 DVR.

Stuff we want to download to our PC gets recorded on the TiVo, stuff to watch then delete is recorded on the R16. You have to watch the scheduling to make sure there's no conflicts and the R16 has to stay on all the time, other than that it works great.

It would be nice to have it all in one box though. The TiVo user interface is so much better than DirecTV's.


----------



## rolybert

All I can say is thank heavens for my 400 hour modded DSR-704. Without wishlists I would have missed the fact that Spike TV was running "Voyager" reruns Now I have the entire series:up: As well as every episode of the "Simpsons"

I hope the New HD TiVo comes out and is so great that we will never speak of those other DVR's again

Or at least the praises of TiVo can return


----------



## rolybert

Syzygy said:


> Fiddlesticks! I gave my original 14-hour Series 1 TiVo from 1999 (which I had field-modified to 76 hours) to my son in 2004, and he's using it right now.


Yup they really are great devices. Especially if you were lucky enough to get in on the lifetime service.

IMO The ones that are praising the D* boxes that are reaping the reward of that lifetime should remember where they done got it from Directivo.


----------



## Gunnyman

Here's an interesting datapoint.
I was invited today to participate in a Beta Test for the New Directivo. Sadly I can't participate as I no longer have Directv. But at least we know the hardware exists!


----------



## magnus

That's cool (somewhat). I never thought that Directv was ever going to have another Tivo box. Maybe my sister will get one of them. Still wonder if it's just a software update to the existing Directv boxes though.



Gunnyman said:


> Here's an interesting datapoint.
> I was invited today to participate in a Beta Test for the New Directivo. Sadly I can't participate as I no longer have Directv. But at least we know the hardware exists!


----------



## Lord Vader

As a longtime DirecTV customer (from the mid-1990s) and longtime TIVO user, I'd *love * to beta test a new DirecTIVO.


----------



## fasTLane

I registered to beta test. Not lucky enough to be chosen.


----------



## Lord Vader

I didn't even know one could register.


----------



## innocentfreak

Gunnyman said:


> Here's an interesting datapoint.
> I was invited today to participate in a Beta Test for the New Directivo. Sadly I can't participate as I no longer have Directv. But at least we know the hardware exists!


Not sure you will be invited to beta test again though by mentioning it, but still it is good to hear it is out there.



Lord Vader said:


> I didn't even know one could register.


You register at http://www.tivo.com/beta


----------



## stevel

Registering is no guarantee of being chosen. I registered for this some time ago.


----------



## dswallow

stevel said:


> Registering is no guarantee of being chosen. I registered for this some time ago.


Keeping the registration updated helps.

And not registering is something of a guarantee of not being chosen.


----------



## Syzygy

innocentfreak said:


> Not sure you will be invited to beta test again though by mentioning it, but still it is good to hear it is out there.
> 
> You register at http://www.tivo.com/beta


It's OK to say there's a beta test, and it's OK to say you are *not *a beta tester. It's only after you acknowledge the NDA that you have to stop talking about it.

I registered too, long ago. No word on being chosen or not.

I did get an email from TiVo about a Coyote beta test  just yesterday. What's a TiVo Coyote?


----------



## CuriousMark

It is probably just a code name. That way it can be talked about without giving away what it is that is being tested.


----------



## Athenian

msmart said:


> It would be nice to have it all in one box though. The TiVo user interface is so much better than DirecTV's.


AMEN

After numerous struggles, my parents have made it clear that they want something else -- anything else -- to replace the 2 R15s they got as protection plan replacements for their DTiVos last year. We had a fiasco last week when DirecTV proposed swapping them but that came to naught when the installer said the remaining TiVo would have to go too.

As of this morning, I've pretty much decided to suspend their DirecTV service and try U-Verse. Their DSL speed will double, net telephone charges will decrease and there's no contract for the TV service that will cost about the same. I'm going to stop by an AT&T office this afternoon to see the interface but don't see how it could be worse than what they have now. Even if it's not as good as Tivo's, _finally_ getting On Demand and MRV would mitigate the disadvantages. I figure that if they really don't like it, I can switch them back to DirecTV when the new TiVo boxes are released.


----------



## tivoboy

I've been signed up for beta for about 10 years now. Tested devices since 2000. Been a d* customer since 1994, but didn't hear anything about this beta. Wonder if moving was an issue? Did people get mail updates, or emails to historical email addresses?

Hmmm, might just have to drive down to Alviso and knock on the door.

was it because I shorted the stock at 18$?


----------



## davezatz

Syzygy said:


> I did get an email from TiVo about a Coyote beta test  just yesterday. What's a TiVo Coyote?


Eh, Coyotes bore me. I want to know more about Poseidon.


----------



## innocentfreak

Well I know he was a Greek God of the Sea with a 3 pronged trident. 

I say TiVo is working on a sports water drink with 3 flavors.

More seems to imply you have some info? I assume none that can be shared.

I would say if the names actually mean anything which I don't think they do. I would say it is one of two things. It is a beta test for Seachange. Hence Poseidon, or if you go with the trident=3 it could be the whole home unit for Suddenlink that can stream up to 3 TiVo clients.


----------



## innocentfreak

tivoboy said:


> I've been signed up for beta for about 10 years now. Tested devices since 2000. Been a d* customer since 1994, but didn't hear anything about this beta. Wonder if moving was an issue? Did people get mail updates, or emails to historical email addresses?
> 
> Hmmm, might just have to drive down to Alviso and knock on the door.
> 
> was it because I shorted the stock at 18$?


Just make sure your profile is kept up to date on the field trials page.


----------



## tivoboy

thanks,
which page is that? on the actual tivo site?


----------



## innocentfreak

http://www.tivo.com/beta if you haven't signed up or
https://fieldtrials.tivo.com/login.html if you have.

In the left hand column you will have the option to manage platforms which tells them which TiVo(s) and PCs you have that you would be willing to test with.

Under that you have the various profile options.


----------



## eziemann

Differences in page http://www.tivo.com/dvr-products/tivo-partners/tivo-directv/index.html

It's official! TiVo and DIRECTV have renewed their partnership, which means a new HD DIRECTV DVR featuring the Emmy® award-winning TiVo service is expected to launch to support satellite customers in the future.

For more information, visit DIRECTV's site.
<http://support.directv.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/77>


----------



## Lord Vader

Old news, but don't expect this for quite some time.


----------



## mdutch

Lord Vader said:


> Old news, but don't expect this for quite some time.


You're not kidding. Got this today from TivoBeta:
"Thanks for your interest in the DirecTV/TiVo DVR. However, it has been delayed again and hope to be released in 2011."

No joy.


----------



## richierich

When in 2011??? Why do they keep delaying this Puppy???

I'm now more interested in Directv's Nomad!!!


----------



## innocentfreak

From the sound of the Nomad you will need an additional piece of hardware, which is a fail to me when I can do it without that on TiVo.


----------



## richierich

No Big Deal to me now that I have right now 7 Directv DVRs (Owned) with 13,000 Gigabytes of Storage Capacity along with Whole Home DVR Service I am stoked but with the addition of Nomad where I can watch my Recordings on my Droid or my PC I am really a Happy Camper!!!

I just got tired of waiting for this Directv TIVO Vaporware which never seems to be able to be completed. AMAZING!!!

We were told it would probably be out last year in time for 2010 CES but that never happened and their Booth at the show was a joke.


----------



## Lord Vader

richierich said:


> No Big Deal to me now that I have right now 7 Directv DVRs (Owned) with 13,000 Gigabytes of Storage Capacity


Ha! That's nothing. I have a mere 1 Zettabyte of capacity!


----------



## richierich

Well you got me beat!!! Rich584 has 18.5 Terabytes with 12 DVRs so he is indeed King!!!


----------



## dshinnick

I just began life as a full-time RV'er, and for the last two years I've been planning on getting the new HD Directivo for my coach. If this really seems true, that they're "hoping" to release it in 2011, then I may have to move to Dish; can't wait that long. Is this prediction really realistic, or not? I'm willing to wait a few months, but not a year.

thanks-

dave


----------



## stevel

How would moving to Dish help you get a TiVo? Why not just get an HR24 now?


----------



## dshinnick

That's DTV's HD DVR, right? I just figure that if I can't have the Tivo interface,then Dish's is probably the best available. Plus, the Dish hardware is, I believe, more current and less-soon to be obsolete than DTV's current box.

And, again, what about the hopefully-in-2011 report? Does it seem accurate?

dave


----------



## litzdog911

dshinnick said:


> That's DTV's HD DVR, right? I just figure that if I can't have the Tivo interface,then Dish's is probably the best available. Plus, the Dish hardware is, I believe, more current and less-soon to be obsolete than DTV's current box.
> 
> And, again, what about the hopefully-in-2011 report? Does it seem accurate?
> 
> dave


Really? Do your homework before jumping to Dish.


----------



## Lord Vader

The coming unit in question will have an interface based on the HR10-250.


----------



## Adam1115

dshinnick said:


> That's DTV's HD DVR, right? I just figure that if I can't have the Tivo interface,then Dish's is probably the best available. Plus, the Dish hardware is, I believe, more current and less-soon to be obsolete than DTV's current box.
> 
> And, again, what about the hopefully-in-2011 report? Does it seem accurate?
> 
> dave


DirecTV's current box just came out 6 months ago. Why do you think dish is more current?


----------



## Syzygy

Adam1115 said:


> DirecTV's current box just came out 6 months ago. Why do you think dish is more current?


Speaking only for myself, DirecTV's firmware has over a hundred documented bugs that I know of, and very few of them ever get fixed; they've been there for years in some cases. I'm sure DirecTV's own buglist is over twice as long.

In sum, it's not the hardware, but the software that needs to be made current.


----------



## litzdog911

Syzygy said:


> Speaking only for myself, DirecTV's firmware has over a hundred documented bugs that I know of, and very few of them ever get fixed; they've been there for years in some cases. I'm sure DirecTV's own buglist is over twice as long.
> 
> In sum, it's not the hardware, but the software that needs to be made current.


Some of us think the current DirecTV HD DVR software works just fine. Is it perfect, no. Was the Tivo software ever perfect? I didn't think so.


----------



## fp715

Yeah I would love to have the new one.


----------



## stevel

DirecTV updates its firmware far more often than TiVo, adding features and fixing bugs. The HR24 is said to be a delightful experience (I have older models and they're fine.) I'd rather have the DirecTV boxes than the DISH boxes (and service.)

I am not going to try to guess release schedules for the new DTiVo. It's already two years late.


----------



## CuriousMark

stevel said:


> DirecTV updates its firmware far more often than TiVo, adding features and fixing bugs. The HR24 is said to be a delightful experience (I have older models and they're fine.) I'd rather have the DirecTV boxes than the DISH boxes (and service.)


I wouldn't call my experience with the HR24 and H24 in a whole home configuration delightful, but it is comparable to my series 2s as of two years ago, but with high def. Obviously my expectations are higher than most, so I am not surprised that others would see this as delightful, especially if they are comparing it with the older DirecTV DVRs with TiVo service, or cable DVRs. If I were coming from one of those, I am sure i would be delighted too.


----------



## DaveWhittle

CuriousMark said:


> I wouldn't call my experience with the HR24 and H24 in a whole home configuration delightful, but it is comparable to my series 2s as of two years ago, but with high def. Obviously my expectations are higher than most, so I am not surprised that others would see this as delightful, especially if they are comparing it with the older DirecTV DVRs with TiVo service, or cable DVRs. If I were coming from one of those, I am sure i would be delighted too.


I came from a DirecTiVo, followed by the HD model, and loved it. But when DirecTV switched to the HRs, I tried to adjust. My experience with two HR models was really bad, so I kept waiting for the TiVos to come back to DirecTV. But when the Premiere TiVo's came out, I gave up waiting, dumped the dish, and went back to cable.

I don't do sports, and Direct was getting too expensive anyway. I don't miss the Direct HD-DVRs at all.


----------



## Adam1115

I don't have any issues with my HR series, except my HR23 is really slow and painful to use (because it missed button presses and doesn't cache them when it's doing something).

The HR24, however, is blazing fast. It's awesome to use! And the whole home DVR is pretty awesome as well...


----------



## codespy

The 24's are great...and Apps are working consistently now. Next in line would be the HR20's.

The HR21's, 22's, and especially the 23's are at the bottom of the barrell for me.

Remember going from DirecTiVo 3.1 to 6.2 and 6.2a software? What a difference that was, and the 6.2's were rock solid. Speed was comprimised with the 6.4a, and forever keeping PPV movies was gone too.


----------



## ronsch

I still love my DSR6000! Once I put a cache card in it, the speed is just fine thank you! My S1 Philips SA on the other hand is as slow as dirt without the cache card.


----------



## WillieWildcat

I hope the new tivo box has better play than the HR21-700 that is starting to get choppy play...


----------



## innocentfreak

I just can't wait for the new boxes so my father will leave me alone about replacing his old SD DTiVos so he can upgrade to HD. He just can't stand the DirecTV UI and won't bother to learn it as a result.


----------



## Syzygy

innocentfreak said:


> my father ... just can't stand the DirecTV UI and won't bother to learn it as a result.


I've been using it for over two years and I hate it too. Yes, there are some nice features I haven't yet seen from TiVo, but the many persistent bugs and the intentional search-result pollution are extremely frustrating.


----------



## Wil

Syzygy said:


> I've been using it [DirecTV Tivo knockoff] for over two years and I hate it too.


Where is the DirecTV cop? This is getting out of hand. What do we pay samoshibby for if not to stomp on stuff like this?


----------



## Nittany Lioness

Hmmm, what's "IU"? I googled to no avail ...


----------



## stevel

I assume you mean UI - User Interface.


----------



## Nittany Lioness

OK. Why would the High Def User Interface be easier for folks?


----------



## CuriousMark

Nittany Lioness said:


> OK. Why would the High Def User Interface be easier for folks?


More information can be displayed on a high definition screen. The text can be slightly smaller and still be easy to read, there is more room on the screen to put multiple columns of information or graphics, and the text and graphics will all be sharper and cleaner looking.

With more information displayed, fewer page downs, or remote clicks are needed to dig for information. Thus navigation can be faster.


----------



## Nittany Lioness

Huh - thanks.

So if I went with getting High Def from Direct TV now, I wouldn't be leasing a Philips or Samsung or ... ? TiVo box, it'd be some no-name digital recording software and Interface that wouldn't have the cute TV logo with the legs, and it'd "feel" and look different, eh?

I wonder if that'd make me cranky.

As long as I can push a button to rewind 10 seconds, have a Guide grid, have a Season Pass-type capability, maybe have a Wish List-type capability, and two tuners, 
I'm grinning.
I don't think I mind toggling left right, up down for stuff ... but maybe I don't know what I'm missing. We're all missing, I guess? - since it's not here yet.


----------



## Syzygy

Nittany Lioness said:


> As long as I can push a button to rewind 10 seconds, have a Guide grid, have a Season Pass-type capability, maybe have a Wish List-type capability, and two tuners, I'm grinning.


That "no-name digital recording software" (written by NDS of Britain) is supposed to rewind 6 seconds but actually rewinds 2 to 5 seconds.

The Guide grid cannot move left or right 1½ hours at a time, only ½ hour at a time or 12 hours at a time.

Series Links are arbitrarily limited to 50.

Wish Lists are replaced by "Smart Search" (search for dummies) and by undocumented and limited Boolean searches. And search results are intentionally polluted with PPV and VOD.


----------



## Athenian

Nittany Lioness said:


> As long as I can push a button to rewind 10 seconds, have a Guide grid, have a Season Pass-type capability, maybe have a Wish List-type capability, and two tuners,
> I'm grinning.
> I don't think I mind toggling left right, up down for stuff ... but maybe I don't know what I'm missing. We're all missing, I guess? - since it's not here yet.


Some people are more sensitive to UI issues than others. I didn't fully appreciate the TiVo design until one of our units was replaced with an HR15 and now that we're trying U-Verse, I appreciate it even more.

Every provider advertises rewind/pause, onscreen guide, season passes and multiple recording streams but the _*how *_makes a big difference.


----------



## aavi722

I like to watch only comedy movies on the premium channels. And I like to set the ones I would like to record for a period of at least two weeks in advance if not more.

No search mechanism that I can find on this receiver will let me do that for more than about two days in advance. It runs out of memory. I tried smart search, I tried every kind of search. 

This means that I have to manually scroll through every premium channel for two weeks in advance and look at the description of every movie to decide if it's something I would like to record. Using the right arrow to move ahead is maddening slow, it hangs up or doesn't respond at all until the download catches up.

It takes me well over two hours to scroll through two weeks of programming and I don't even have most of the premium channels. I only have the Starz package and Showtime presently because it's on a 3 month free promotion. But if I want to assure myself that programs I want will be recorded, I have to do that every two weeks. 

TiVo blows this receiver away, let alone the fact that it will go out there and find those programs for me by learning my viewing habits.

If I could afford it, I would run over this DirecTV receiver with my car. I have never seen or had a less user friendly or more unintelligent software. The remote response is ridiculous, the receiver can't distinguish reruns from first run so I get three or four of the same program. What's the point of even having "first run only" choice in the set up?

I only signed up in March because of the "promise" that the TiVo unit was about to be released. Ha ha ha on me. 

Now I'm stuck with a termination fee which I may pay I'm so fed up with what I have, and go to TiVo Premier. 

Do any of you remember a device about 15 years ago that was called "Video Guide?" It was the best design I have ever seen hands down. It even knew if a program had already been recorded and it would advise you if you were setting up recordings. This was fifteen years ago they had this technology!! For some incredible and unfortunate reason, it went out of business. 

DirecTV ought to track down and hire some of the guys that designed that thing. Then they would have some common sense and hi tech user intuitive engineers. Because for right now what they have in my opinion is absolute junk! :down:


----------



## litzdog911

aavi722 said:


> I like to watch only comedy movies on the premium channels. And I like to set the ones I would like to record for a period of at least two weeks in advance if not more.
> 
> No search mechanism that I can find on this receiver will let me do that for more than about two days in advance. It runs out of memory. I tried smart search, I tried every kind of search.
> 
> This means that I have to manually scroll through every premium channel for two weeks in advance and look at the description of every movie to decide if it's something I would like to record. Using the right arrow to move ahead is maddening slow, it hangs up or doesn't respond at all until the download catches up.
> 
> It takes me well over two hours to scroll through two weeks of programming and I don't even have most of the premium channels. I only have the Starz package and Showtime presently because it's on a 3 month free promotion. But if I want to assure myself that programs I want will be recorded, I have to do that every two weeks.
> 
> ....


Not sure why you're having problems with Smart Search. All of my DVRs go out about 10-12 days, as does my Tivo. None of them have ever gone out more than two weeks.


----------



## BigBearf

I have had HR21 refurb that was a dog. I eventually returned it to Directv and obtained an HR24-500 for $200 from local dealer and got a $200 credit applied to my account by speaking with retention.
If you get them to send you one you get the luck of the draw and my luck on replacement units has not been good.
bigbearf


----------



## balboa dave

aavi722 said:


> I like to watch only comedy movies on the premium channels. And I like to set the ones I would like to record for a period of at least two weeks in advance if not more.


No one, not even TiVo, has accurate guide data for more than two weeks, and realistically, it's usually only 10 days.


> No search mechanism that I can find on this receiver will let me do that for more than about two days in advance. It runs out of memory. I tried smart search, I tried every kind of search.


No you haven't. Try this:
In Smart Search, type in COMEDY CCHAN 545 556, press the Red button for a keyword search, then select Movies as the category.


----------



## balboa dave

litzdog911 said:


> Not sure why you're having problems with Smart Search. All of my DVRs go out about 10-12 days, as does my Tivo. None of them have ever gone out more than two weeks.


It's because the results of an unrestricted search includes every movie on every channel every time they're on. The results buffer is limited to, I'm guessing, I haven't counted, something like 100 results, so it's full after just a couple of days worth of movies. There's a lot of room for improvement.


----------



## plazman30

I dumped them because my 2 years commitment was up, and there was no Tivo box. So, I went out and bought a Premiere and got FIOS TV.

Now that I have a "real" Tivo, I don't know if I could go back to a company box with Tivo software on it. I'm using TivoToGo all the time time to take shows with me and archive stuff I want to keep, and have gotten pyTivo set up to copy shows TO the Tivo.

I had a DirecttTV HR-22 and thought it was OK. I really liked it when a software update added the 30 second skip hack. 30 second slip just didn't cut it for me.

I kept my old R10 in the basement and every time I used it, I realized how I much I just liked the look and feel of Tivo better.

The CSR on the phone when I cancelled my service was trying his best to get me to stay. He offered me all sorts of retention deals. I told him if they could overnight me a hi-def DVR with Tivo software on it, then I would stay for another 2 years. If they couldn't do that, then I was leaving. I wanted to make sure that someone had documented in their records that I left over breaking the deal with Tivo.


----------



## fasTLane

plazman30 said:


> ... I wanted to make sure that someone had documented in their records that I left over breaking the deal with Tivo.


Thank you much!  :up:


----------



## aavi722

litzdog911 said:


> Not sure why you're having problems with Smart Search. All of my DVRs go out about 10-12 days, as does my Tivo. None of them have ever gone out more than two weeks.


I would be happy with ten days. I'm not getting even close to that. 48 hours is about the max I can ever get. Then it reverts right back to where I started because it runs out of memory.

I told the agent when I signed up I wanted at least an HR-23. But it's like the military. You get what they give you even though I'm paying the same rate as anybody who gets a 23 or 24.

You don't even know what you're getting until the install guy shows up.

Something radically wrong with that system. I am giving them until Jan to produce the TiVo we have been strung along with or they can take their system and give it to the next unfortunate victim.

They will lose two thirds of monthly programming charges of what I would have paid to fulfill the contract. I'll pay one third the price just to get rid of the aggravation.

And me being a senior citizen on a small fixed income, DirecTV might want to take notice of that.


----------



## aavi722

balboa dave said:


> It's because the results of an unrestricted search includes every movie on every channel every time they're on. The results buffer is limited to, I'm guessing, I haven't counted, something like 100 results, so it's full after just a couple of days worth of movies. There's a lot of room for improvement.


You said it, there's certainly a LOT of room for improvement. I would take the Video Guide set top box back in a heart beat if I could get it.

With the lumbering slowness and mushy feel of this remote, let alone the response time to see channel changes or program information advances, it's the worst and most frustrating technology I have ever used.

We can land two robots on Mars and DirecTV can't design a software to show two weeks of comedy movies in a search.

That's the equivalent of going to a BlockBuster video store and having all the movies in one big pile.

TiVo runs circles around DirecTV.


----------



## HiDefGator

Syzygy said:


> That "no-name digital recording software" (written by NDS of Britain) is supposed to rewind 6 seconds but actually rewinds 2 to 5 seconds.


If she buys the HD DVR it is written by Directv engineers in California, not NDS.


----------



## iwantmyhdmitv

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool TiVo guy from day 1. However, technology marches on, good or bad.

My read on Tom Rogers direction for the company is that they are not really interested in being a STB designer/manufacturer, but rather, a seller of software services related to their core IP/patents. Therefore, the long delay on this next box is not surprising.

I'm on Directv for two reasons. One, I can use it at my summer residence where the local cable sucks. Two, NFL Sunday Ticket (a distant second to reason #1). I guess MRV is now another reason.

I recently gave up on TiVo and installed the SWM system with three HR24's and two H24's. Yeah, you have to get used to the new GUI, but you know, it ain't bad! In fact, a couple things are better. I'm using RF remotes on two of the primary DVR's and that works very well.

Note: If you want the HR24 units, have the CSR put your request in the notes. No, they don't guarantee anything. When the installer comes out, check his inventory, and re-schedule the installation if he has the wrong stuff. Simple as that.

I may have been lucky, but I got exactly what I asked for first time. So did a friend who did the same thing. May have been that I'm a 9-year sub, don't know. The installer did know that I was a long-term subscriber, however. It was printed on his work order.

It was a tough decision to go from a total DIY TiVo-based system to a leased Directv setup. I drive right past TiVo's headquarters on 237 on the way to my job designing chips every day, and the lights are still on, so maybe there's still hope!

Cheers,
Rick


----------



## dswallow

iwantmyhdmitv said:


> My read on Tom Rogers direction for the company is that they are not really interested in being a STB designer/manufacturer, but rather, a seller of software services related to their core IP/patents. Therefore, the long delay on this next box is not surprising.


If I'm going to consider hiring TiVo to develop the software for my set-top box, I'm going to look at their track record with other such devices, including their own.

I'm going to be extraordinarily hesitant to do a single thing with TiVo based on what I find in the market:

A half-assed UI on the TiVo Premiere; practically zero development since it was released half-done. And not a peep about any timetable for the remainder of the UI to be converted to HD, let alone the HD UI performance being improved at least to some reasonably acceptable/comparable to SD speed level.

A Comcast TiVo box nobody wants for much longer than 2 weeks, if they even get two weeks working functionality from it, still no national rollout on the original Motorola hardware, and not a peep anymore about it ever working on Scientific Atlanta/Cisco hardware.

A DirecTV HD box under development for 2-3 years, delayed.

A PC software product, discontinued, that really had significant user complaints about half-finished functionality and bugs long-reported and acknowledged and never addressed.

This is a resume of a company I'd hire to work on the product that's the thing my customers will deal with most when using my services.


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## innocentfreak

But you forgot, software is what TiVo does well 

In a series of increasingly telling quotes, Miller called software the company's "core competence," said it was "in our blood" and "the thing we do well," and even added that "the software is what we're all about."

Yeah when they get it right and it works it works great and is consistently reliable, but they really need to incorporate speed into the mix.


----------



## litzdog911

Well stated, Doug.


----------



## iwantmyhdmitv

I agree with what Doug is saying.

It would be, however, unfair to lump too many of TiVo's failures under their corporate name. Like most companies (except perhaps very small ones and startups), TiVo is the sum of several internal organizations. Some of these groups have produced excellent software in the past, and I'll bet they can do it again. I work for a semiconductor company that has produced some real gems and some real duds over the years. So what's preventing TiVo from getting another gem out there right now?

<Purely my opinion from here on >
Patent disputes have created an environment where they are playing not to lose. They continue on in limp-along mode, hoping for a resolution in their favor which will create a revenue stream. They can then design (software/services) with more immunity in the marketplace, OR, they can put up the sale sign. If the IP is truly defend-able, it could be worth quite a bit. I always thought someone like Apple could be a good suitor for at least parts of the company, as one of their core competencies is clean user interfaces.

Longer term, the need for these silly boxes taking up space/power in our homes will go away. VOD will prevail, coming from whatever pipe is available. The great TiVo GUI can play a part in this.


----------



## iwantmyhdmitv

"I'm going to be extraordinarily hesitant to do a single thing with TiVo based on what I find in the market"


Doug,

Hmmm, keep in mind companies are bought and sold daily on the basis of their potential performance in a marketplace. Start-ups are sold for many $M's with no products at all !!

A company's "potential" can be any attractive combination of products & services, along with the "goodwill" and barriers to entry that the company may have. TiVo is waiting to see how their major barrier to entry (time-shift technology patents) pans out.

They already have a lot of good will. The TiVo subscriber is a tough nut to crack. Tens-of-thousands of you are waiting for the next HD TiVo box.

Cheers,
Rick


----------



## HiDefGator

iwantmyhdmitv said:


> Patent disputes have created an environment where they are playing not to lose. They continue on in limp-along mode, hoping for a resolution in their favor which will create a revenue stream.


They are sitting a huge pile of cash and no debt. They have job openings for almost 100 engineers. I wouldn't call that limp-along mode myself.


----------



## innocentfreak

Looks like according to DBStalk some people got emails yesterday about surveys for people still interested in beta testing. Even if you didn't get an email you may want to login to https://fieldtrials.tivo.com and double check to see if you have a survey available to you. I think they said it was named something like still interested in testing.


----------



## CuriousMark

innocentfreak said:


> Looks like according to DBStalk some people got emails yesterday about surveys for people still interested in beta testing. Even if you didn't get an email you may want to login to https://fieldtrials.tivo.com and double check to see if you have a survey available to you. I think they said it was named something like still interested in testing.


Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## ss_sea_ya

Sounded like a focus group type questions, but doesn't hurt to put your 2 cent's worth in!


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## innocentfreak

I believe only people who previously accepted got the follow-up survey so it is probably more that they are looking to expand the pool.


----------



## tivoboy

innocentfreak said:


> Looks like according to DBStalk some people got emails yesterday about surveys for people still interested in beta testing. Even if you didn't get an email you may want to login to https://fieldtrials.tivo.com and double check to see if you have a survey available to you. I think they said it was named something like still interested in testing.


This is just the STOCK beta survey for this forum/website creator, I have seen it many times for many other beta products. No difference in questions asked, nothing.


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## innocentfreak

Not in this case...dbstalk

It seems it was sent specifically to people who accepted but didn't make the first cut.


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## tivoboy

I think you may have mis-understood my point. The survey that I (underscore I) got, was the same "happy with the beta" survey that I have the Centercode Connect forum templates use for many other betas, for other companies. There wasn't anything unique about it.


----------



## Draken

I recently called DirecTV to cancel my service. The rep handling my call asked if there was anything I wish DirecTV had done better during my 10 years with them. I said I wished they would have come out with the HD DirecTV/Tivo box sooner. The rep said: The boxes are built and are in the final testing phase for the software and should be released first quarter 2011.

True or not, who knows. But he did offer me 3 months free with no strings or commitments to keep me as a customer until the new unit was available.

Oh, and they are sending me a pre paid mailer as they want me to return the access cards from my units. So it looks like I don't have much time to watch what is already recored on the DVR before I lose access to it.


----------



## 1999cobra

Draken said:


> I recently called DirecTV to cancel my service. The rep handling my call asked if there was anything I wish DirecTV had done better during my 10 years with them. I said I wished they would have come out with the HD DirecTV/Tivo box sooner. The rep said: The boxes are built and are in the final testing phase for the software and should be released first quarter 2011.
> 
> True or not, who knows. But he did offer me 3 months free with no strings or commitments to keep me as a customer until the new unit was available.
> 
> Oh, and they are sending me a pre paid mailer as they want me to return the access cards from my units. So it looks like I don't have much time to watch what is already recored on the DVR before I lose access to it.


*Promises, promises...* I have heard it all before I was a customer of D-tv since 1997 until a month ago and I pulled the plug on them for me it was just the cost - i was happy with the DVR's and the menu system. However, I couldn't justify $125 a month for their service which basically only included HB and Showtime.

Like you, I would call up and complain about the cost, and like you, they would give me freebies and like you, they will all soon run out, and you will be back to square one.

What made it easy for me was when I moved into a new community which has fiber optics ATMC fiber optics (not Verizon). I have the full spectrum of services, two phone lines (ones a dedicated fax), nationwide unlimited calling, Broadband, and the Platinum Plus package which includes every freakin channel under the sun, as well as a DVR at a reduced cost.

I have saved myself $80.00 over what my cable for broadband and phone and D-tv cost me together where I used to live. Now, if my choices were Comcast and or Time Warner I would not have made the switch.


----------



## Lord Vader

The new DirecTV/TIVO HD receiver will most likely not be released until quarter 2. It has been delayed--again. There is still a chance it may be released in the first quarter of 2011, but those chances have lessened considerably.


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## stevel

You don't need the access card to watch already recorded programs.


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## Draken

Cool, thanks Stevel. Now the wife and I don't need to rush to watch the backlog.


----------



## stevel

A clarification - if you have DTiVos, you don't need the access card to watch recorded programs. It will complain about it for a while but eventually will stop nagging you.

If you have a DirecTV non-TiVo DVR, you do need service to watch.


----------



## catocony

I think that you can save your stuff on a DirecTV box - like an R15/R16 - if you unplug your SAT inputs before you cancel your service. I don't know if the card is still needed or not.

Actually, why would they want the old cards back? You definitely own them, and they're mated to your DVRs. If they're afraid that you're just going to spend eternity re-watching stuff you've already recorded, well, even if true, what business is it of theirs?


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## stevel

No, you don't own the cards.


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## catocony

I wasn't aware of that, certainly as of the last time I "bought" a new card for $20. I guess I've just been renting it all these years.....


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## Adam1115

catocony said:


> If they're afraid that you're just going to spend eternity re-watching stuff you've already recorded, well, even if true, what business is it of theirs?


There were a lot of years where people used them to steal their service.



catocony said:


> I wasn't aware of that, certainly as of the last time I "bought" a new card for $20. I guess I've just been renting it all these years.....


You paid them to mail you a new card, you didn't buy it.


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## E94Allen

Adam1115 said:


> You paid them to mail you a new card, you didn't buy it.


Sound expensive if they just "mail" the card.


----------



## Cudahy

So now we're looking at maybe March or April?


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## stevel

Cudahy said:


> So now we're looking at maybe March or April?


Of 2012?

Not before March, at least.


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## iwantmyhdmitv

HiDefGator said:


> They are sitting a huge pile of cash and no debt. They have job openings for almost 100 engineers. I wouldn't call that limp-along mode myself.


One man's opinion with which I agree.

Source -http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2010/12/27/tivos-significant-role-in-2011.aspx

"The thing is that TiVo has won so many of the skirmishes that I don't see how the company could lose the war in the end. At some point, DISH and EchoStar will probably have to cough up the cash for years of fines, late fees, and cumulative damages. The challenges will run out.

TiVo's stock is currently trading in a low range because the latest chapter in the legal saga was a temporary defeat. When that particular delaying action is defeated (as I believe it will be), TiVo will jump again and give us bottom-feeders a nice return on our investments.

This will probably happen in 2011, but I'm willing to sit on my shares until 2012 if need be because the payoff will be huge. Armed with an undisputable court record, TiVo will go looking for license payments from every cable and satellite operator under the sun: Pay up or remove your DVR services along with millions of subscribers! *TiVo will become a licensor of DVR technologies first and an innovator second."
*
Off topic comment - I've been running HR24/H24 boxes for over 2 months now. Zero glitches. The only thing keeping them from being way better than TiVo is those pesky look/feel patents that TiVo is waiting to enforce.

Happy New Year!


----------



## EmilyEmily

Since the board is balking at letting me post the link to this Multichannel News story, I've doctored it a bit:

www[dot]multichannel[dot]com/article/462088-CES_TiVo_Expects_DirecTV_HD_DVR_This_Year.php



> Las Vegas  More than a year behind schedule, the TiVo-based HD digital video recorder for DirecTV will launch sometime in 2011 -- a development the DVR company is hoping will help it stop the tide of subscriber losses.
> 
> The development of the DirecTV box, which runs on a Thomson hardware platform, has "taken longer than we expected for a variety of reasons," said Naveen Chopra, TiVo senior vice president of corporate development and strategy. He declined to provide a more specific launch window for the product.
> 
> TiVo has been steadily losing customers over the past three years. For the quarter ended Oct. 31, 2010, the company had 2.27 million subscribers, down from 2.74 million a year earlier.
> 
> The company expects the distribution deals with DirecTV, as well as RCN, Suddenlink Communications, Virgin Media in the U.K. and other operators to start to show meaningful growth in 2011, according to Chopra. TiVo also has an agreement with Cox Communications, which is supporting retail DVRs with its VOD service.
> 
> "This is the year those deals will hit the market, in terms of real products... That will help us get back on a positive subscriber trajectory," Chopra said.
> 
> Under their previous deal, DirecTV launched a TiVo-based DVR in 2000, but five years later said it would market its own DVR developed by NDS Group. "The challenge we've had is that we've been dependent on the legacy DirecTV deal, and those subscribers have been peeling off," Chopra said.
> 
> Under the new agreement, announced in September 2008, the companies expected to launch an HD DVR in the second half of 2009.
> 
> Chopra said DirecTV subscribers who are still using the older standard-definition TiVo boxes are ideal targets for the new DVR. "That's the low-hanging fruit, because they've stayed with TiVo even with the SD interface," Chopra said.


This low-hanging fruit has been hanging on for several years. Just had WeaKnees repair my old DirecTiVo (fortunately only small problems). I guess this article makes me feel better about waiting, since I don't care that much about HD. But who knows if these comments actually mean anything.


----------



## SullyND

> "That's the low-hanging fruit, because they've stayed with TiVo even with the SD interface," Chopra said.


That's an interesting quote, seeing as how the new HD DirecTiVo is supposed to have the SD interface as well.


----------



## EmilyEmily

I took that as a reference to the fact that the current boxes are standard def (SD).


----------



## EmilyEmily

And here's another story that came out of CES.

www[dot]fudzilla.com/home/item/21504-directivo-release-still-a-mystery



> Our sources from the shadows tell a bit of a different story, however. Apparently, development of a new DirecTivo HD unit is proceeding and if our sources are correct, we could finally see a release in April or May of this year. Of course, we know for sure that they are working on it, but it does seem that the sense of urgency in getting the new box out might be a bit lacking. ... It does seem that the new DirecTiVo is becoming the new "Duke Nukem" of satellite DVR hardware...


----------



## 1999cobra

I don't believe there will ever be a directv tivo


----------



## bigpuma

1999cobra said:


> I don't believe there will ever be a directv tivo


Considering we know it is currently being beta tested I don't see why you would have this opinion.


----------



## 1999cobra

bigpuma said:


> Considering we know it is currently being beta tested I don't see why you would have this opinion.


How do you know it's being tested - have you seen one in person, do you have one in your hands, or are you just repeating what you've heard and or read somewhere on the Internet ...?

Supposedly, (and I said supposedly, as I wasn't there and therefore can't say for sure) they wouldn't even reveal it at this years CES show that doesn't give me much confidence they have anything -


----------



## stevel

I believe it is being tested. But I'm also coming to believe that it isn't going to be desirable, even by TiVo fanatics.


----------



## simonton

An aquaintence of mine is involved in the beta test. I can't wait anymore and will be moving on to the stock HD directv whole home system. They win.


----------



## ronsch

I can wait as I haven't made any investment in HD yet but if Steve is right and it's not recognizable as a TiVo..... But why bother with creating it at all if it's not a TiVo that is clearly distinguishable from a DTV dvr?


----------



## Lord Vader

It exists; it's coming (not in April as originally believed); and it's not very unique. Moreover, it won't support Whole Home DVR service (MRV) and will not be much of a big thing when all is said and done.


----------



## bigpuma

stevel said:


> I believe it is being tested. But I'm also coming to believe that it isn't going to be desirable, even by TiVo fanatics.


I tend to agree with your assessment.


----------



## EmilyEmily

It'll be desirable to me. If it works like my old TiVo and provides an HD signal, that's all I need.


----------



## DBCooper

DirecTV is increasing my bill by $3 next month. But the e-mail didn't make that clear. I had to research the various packages to find out what is happening. One would think that an e-mail could at least be personalized to the recipient. Instead, it was all a big mystery.

That's literally the last straw. In November my bill went up $20 to $71 ($74 next month), apparently because my last call to retention expired. Waiting for the HD DirecTiVo has been a costly and disappointing effort.

Meanwhile, I got a Blu-Ray with Netflix, etc., for Christmas and my local Suddenlink Cable, one of the worst outfits in the industry, has finally offered HD here and will go all digital in mid-March. Furthermore, they have begun offering the TiVo Premiere in west Texas for about $15 per month. The present and the future look a lot brighter for cable.

Cost of adding HD cable with HD DVR to my Internet-only system is $57 per month. So, for maybe $6 per month more than I am likely to get my DirecTV bill reduced. I can have 62 analog channels, 49 HD channels, including local broadcast, and an HD DVR.

Or just forget the whole thing and go with my Blu-Ray. Suddenly, DTV has gone from first choice to third choice.


----------



## Kablemodem

I just switched from cable to DirecTV. TWC raised my bill for the second time in the past year. It was the last straw.

I'm hoping the new TiVo comes soon, but my expectations regarding its features have dwindled.


----------



## GKevinK

Lord Vader said:


> It exists; it's coming (not in April as originally believed); and it's not very unique. Moreover, it won't support Whole Home DVR service (MRV) and will not be much of a big thing when all is said and done.


Can't tell from your post whether you're saying it won't support the between-DVR features and protocols to allow it to share functionality with other DTV DVRs, or with other TiVo's, or both.


----------



## Argentino

Like many of you, I am sick and tired of cable and waiting for the HDTivo to drop so I can switch back to D*. Problem is how long to wait? If HDTivo won't drop before the summer, I will install D* now and then upgrade my receivers. I can otherwise wait 2-3 months to switch when HDTivo is ready. Any suggestions? Also, if you had to install D* right now, who would you call to install? I'm in the tri state (NYC) area... Thanks for any suggestions / thoughts.


----------



## signots

From DirecTV this morning:

For your reference, we are working with TiVo to develop a new HD DVR. The details are still being determined, but for now we can tell you that the new receiver will have:

-Access to over 160 HD channels 
-DIRECTV CINEMA, with thousands of shows and movies to watch instantly 
-TiVo's Universal Swivel Search 
-TiVo's KidZone 

In addition, we expect the new receiver to launch in early 2011 and we will provide more information as soon as it is available. To receive updates on the new TiVo HD DVR, sign up at: see posts above

I talked to one of their techs but she couldn't provide any other info. Steve


----------



## weaknees

Looks like that's from this link:

http://support.directv.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/77

Anyone remember when that changed? I wonder how accurate the "early" still is.

It's interesting they don't mention 3D. Of course, they don't mention plenty of features that it will likely have, and 3D doesn't sound terribly hard to implement, but they push so hard on that in other avenues.


----------



## 1999cobra

People please - how long has it been, how long does it need to be before you realize what's up?


----------



## rumpleteazer

Lord Vader said:


> It exists; it's coming (not in April as originally believed); and it's not very unique. Moreover, it won't support Whole Home DVR service (MRV) and will not be much of a big thing when all is said and done.


For me, no MRV would be a deal breaker. I haven't switched to HD yet, because I still have picture tube TV's in the house. I'm slowly moving over to HD sets, but nothing's pushed me over to HD satellite.

But it's important to me to be able to record on one DVR and watch on another. I like Tivo's MRV, but could live with the streaming that DirecTV supports.


----------



## Adam1115

Yea, not only does it need MRV, but it needs to integrated with whole house DVR. That feature is a must have for us now...


----------



## Adam1115

I would love to have kidzone and suggestions again though... I miss that.


----------



## catocony

weaknees said:


> Looks like that's from this link:
> 
> http://support.directv.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/77
> 
> Anyone remember when that changed? I wonder how accurate the "early" still is.
> 
> It's interesting they don't mention 3D. Of course, they don't mention plenty of features that it will likely have, and 3D doesn't sound terribly hard to implement, but they push so hard on that in other avenues.


""Dont get all excited, dude. 3D is gay. Nobody wants to sit on a couch wearing glasses poppin bubbles out of the air like some sort of f*cked up Ray Charles..."
By: The Great Kenny Powers


----------



## aavi722

EmilyEmily said:


> It'll be desirable to me. If it works like my old TiVo and provides an HD signal, that's all I need.


Same here. I'm coming up on my 1st year of the two year contract with DirecTV in March. If they don't have this released by April, they're on thin ice.

I was lied to when I signed up under the impression that the new TiVo would be available in early fall of last year. Instead of retaining cable after moving to a new address, that's the only reason I contracted with DirecTV instead. And I made it exquisitely clear that was the only reason. They advise of all calls being recorded for quality. I got news for them. *I* recorded it too--every single thing I was told.

They will find out, contracts are mutual two way agreements of understanding. If they don't think so, maybe the Attorney General can clarify it for them.

There isn't _anything_ I like about my HR-2100 and TiVo is going to be in my near future again one way or the other!


----------



## CrashHD

You may be technically right about that, but how much hassle will you go through before you convince them of that, keeping in mind not only will you have to convince them, you'll have to convince the collectors who call, and all three credit bureaus when you dispute the collection records, too.


----------



## mohanman

I made the stupid mistake of going with directv over comcast, and I'm a previous owner of two tivo boxes. No G4, no local HD channels in my area, and no AMC HD. Definitely not a happy customer. In one year, will going back to comcast and tivo boxes despite the cancellation fee.


----------



## dswallow

CrashHD said:


> You may be technically right about that, but how much hassle will you go through before you convince them of that, keeping in mind not only will you have to convince them, you'll have to convince the collectors who call, and all three credit bureaus when you dispute the collection records, too.


You're one of those people who believe what people on the telephone who claim you them money say, aren't you?


----------



## litzdog911

weaknees said:


> Looks like that's from this link:
> 
> http://support.directv.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/77
> 
> Anyone remember when that changed? I wonder how accurate the "early" still is.
> 
> It's interesting they don't mention 3D. Of course, they don't mention plenty of features that it will likely have, and 3D doesn't sound terribly hard to implement, but they push so hard on that in other avenues.


Since the HR22 platform that the HD Tivo is built upon supports 3DTV, I would guess that the HD Tivo will too. We'll see.


----------



## ronsch

EmilyEmily said:


> It'll be desirable to me. If it works like my old TiVo and provides an HD signal, that's all I need.


+1

Once it finally comes out I'll have to make a choice between the new HD TiVo and the Premiere. DTV vs Comcast.

With all the packages Comcast offers now I could probably replace DTV and Embarq(DSL) and save a bundle every month. We'll see.....


----------



## Ssaslow

Was at Best Buy today, and a DirecTV rep was there who claims that the integrated Tivo box is going to be out in February....


----------



## Davelnlr_

mohanman said:


> I made the stupid mistake of going with directv over comcast, and I'm a previous owner of two tivo boxes. No G4, no local HD channels in my area, and no AMC HD. Definitely not a happy customer. In one year, will going back to comcast and tivo boxes despite the cancellation fee.


Ive been with DirecTv since the very first week they were available, and I just bought a Tivo Premier and subbed to Xfinity HD digital Preferred. DirecTv is dropping the ball, not only on their new Tivo not supporting Whole Home, but their use of their new satellite for PPV instead of channels you mentioned above, among LOTS of others. When they started dropping channels last month, that is when I started shopping. Xfinity get a bad rap, but I have been impressed in the two weeks Ive had it. Even their emergency Sunday afternoon service call to replace a bad cablecard I had picked up at their office Friday, for the new Tivo.


----------



## litzdog911

Ssaslow said:


> Was at Best Buy today, and a DirecTV rep was there who claims that the integrated Tivo box is going to be out in February....


Current rumors are more like April/May.


----------



## CrashHD

dswallow said:


> You're one of those people who believe what people on the telephone who claim you them money say, aren't you?


No. I'm just not willing to fight for every last cent if it takes more dollars worth of time than the savings to be had. Some people will spend 2 hours on the phone to resolve a $20 billing error, and think they came out $20 ahead. If I do that, figuring in the value of my time, I come out about $20 behind. Just seeing the big picture, that's all...


----------



## rumpleteazer

Not sure if this is the appropriate place, but I was looking into switching to Comcast to use the Tivo Premiere and people here have talked about saving money. I have 3 DVR's in the house right now. If I get the Tivo Premiere, won't I be paying an extra $60 per month to have 3 Tivo's? That outweighs any savings from Comcast considering I'm paying $7 per month to DTV for all 3.


----------



## dswallow

rumpleteazer said:


> Not sure if this is the appropriate place, but I was looking into switching to Comcast to use the Tivo Premiere and people here have talked about saving money. I have 3 DVR's in the house right now. If I get the Tivo Premiere, won't I be paying an extra $60 per month to have 3 Tivo's? That outweighs any savings from Comcast considering I'm paying $7 per month to DTV for all 3.


If you get the TiVo Premiere's at the subsidized price, you're paying back the subsidy in the form of the higher monthly fee.

Pay for them in full (or take advantage of buying refurbished units since they also are eligible), then you can use the regular service pricing... including the opportunity to just buy lifetime service. This gives you a lower "multi-service discount" price on units beyond the first; so service becomes $12.95/month for the first, $9.95/month for each of the second and third (lifetime service could eliminate one or more of those entirely, of course).

Saving money switching from DTV to Comcast can come in other ways -- the triple play bundles and related discount pricing, for example, or lower cost for channels you want overall.


----------



## rumpleteazer

dswallow said:


> Pay for them in full (or take advantage of buying refurbished units since they also are eligible), then you can use the regular service pricing... including the opportunity to just buy lifetime service. This gives you a lower "multi-service discount" price on units beyond the first; so service becomes $12.95/month for the first, $9.95/month for each of the second and third (lifetime service could eliminate one or more of those entirely, of course)..


I thought there was a lifetime service, but didn't see that on the Tivo web site. I also didn't know about the discount for multiple boxes.

So if I pay for the boxes, I'd be on the hook for $33 extra per month (assuming I don't get lifetime service). That does make some sense.


----------



## snickerrrrs

(Keep in mind this is just a general discussion of random rumors of the new Directivo. I have NO facts)

So I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the TiVo software/service for Directv dvrs would cost an additional fee. Do anyone remember that too? If true then there would have to be additional benefits or no one would order it right? I mean besides kidszone and Directv cinema... 160 HD channels and Directv Cinema already come on the existing HD dvrs right? 

I also read that TiVo already submitted the software to Directv (there's no way it would be ready by April /May if that were not true). If that's true why does Directv send us to TiVo's website to sign up for email updates? I'm assuming that's just the agreement TiVO and Directv ironed out when they made a deal to produce a new Directivo in the first place. Any thoughts?

Where's Earl BonoDirectvovich when you need him!


----------



## innocentfreak

snickerrrrs said:


> (Keep in mind this is just a general discussion of random rumors of the new Directivo. I have NO facts)
> 
> So I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the TiVo software/service for Directv dvrs would cost an additional fee. Do anyone remember that too? If true then there would have to be additional benefits or no one would order it right? I mean besides kidszone and Directv cinema... 160 HD channels and Directv Cinema already come on the existing HD dvrs right?


It has been discussed on dbstalk in the TiVo thread.

The belief is that since TiVo is getting more money from DirecTV for the subs, they would pass that fee or a percentage on to the consumer. No one knows what or if there will be an extra charge. No one even knows that I am aware of what DirecTV is or will be giving TiVo for the new subs so it is tough to guess.

As far as the extra features, this is the big question. There are also issues like MRV and whether TiVo will support integration with the DirecTV dvrs. Then there is nomad and whether it will work with TiVo. Right now most are thinking too little too late since DirecTV features will be better than what TiVo will offer other than more than 50 season passes and the TiVo classic interface. This will especially be true when DirecTv rolls out their new whole house DVR with 1TB and 5 tuners seen at CES.


----------



## bigpuma

innocentfreak said:


> The belief is that since TiVo is getting more money from DirecTV for the subs, they would pass that fee or a percentage on to the consumer. No one knows what or if there will be an extra charge. No one even knows that I am aware of what DirecTV is or will be giving TiVo for the new subs so it is tough to guess.


If they do end up charging an additional fee for the HD DirecTiVo I don't see how this thing won't be a total flop. Other than the small number of hardcore TiVo fans I don't see who would be willing to pay for it. As much as I loved my DirecTiVos all those years, even paying $850 for the HR10, I wouldn't switch to the new DirecTiVo without MRV even if it were the same price.


----------



## BBURNES

If I had to guess:
- it probably will have broadband access for some features out of the box (obviously not netflix, amazon and blockbuster)
- probably will have TTG and TTGB
- music (itunes) and photo support
- will NOT have new interface (they've already said this). But if they're smart, they'll build it on the new Flash platform and use old interface for now -- update to new interface in future
- will NOT have whole home support out of the box. but like HD interface, will be added in future update.


All above is total guess. no inside info. But if I were TiVo and trying to get the box to market as fast as possible and not lose any more migrating SD customers, that's what I'd do.


----------



## Athenian

I think we've come to the end of the road with TiVo in this household. We have been postponing a purchase of an HDTV since mid-2009 (the original delivery date). Now it looks as though we'll be getting a 3D model and I haven't seen a single word about support for that in the almost, just about, soon-to-be-released DirecTiVo. 

After three months on U-verse (preceeded by eight awful months on HR15s), I appreciate the TiVo interface more than ever. I don't think though, that anyone here would be willing to give up on features that were once considered nice to have extras and have now become standard.

We still own two DirecTiVos (one of which has a bad tuner) and an HR15 but I think that when we get a new TV, we'll unsuspend our DirecTV subscription and get 3 HDVR24s so we can have Video on Demand, Whole House DVR, and 3D. The retention rep promised me all of the equipment at no charge along with a year's rebate on HD programming last September but I was trying to hold out until the DirecTiVo was released. After reading about the new box though, I just can't see any reason to keep stalling.


----------



## ss_sea_ya

So far, I found the ONLY complaints I have with the non-tivo version (DirecTV Hughs HDR2 vs DirecTV HD HR24/500 and another DirecTV SD DVR) are the following:


1. No ability to "limit" # of kept shows on manual repeating records
2. No ability to record "New" plus "repeats" and ignoring "repeats" that were recorded w/i last 28 days. Not as much an issue with higher capacity drive's these days.


Of course, my non-tivo SD DirectTV DVR, have more issues but I am sure that is more than covered in other threads...


----------



## dswallow

Athenian said:


> I think we've come to the end of the road with TiVo in this household. We have been postponing a purchase of an HDTV since mid-2009 (the original delivery date). Now it looks as though we'll be getting a 3D model and I haven't seen a single word about support for that in the almost, just about, soon-to-be-released DirecTiVo.


That's because there is absolutely nothing needed to support it if the receiver can handle a regular HD channel. All 3D from DirecTV (and, actually, every other broadcast, satellite and cable source) is frame-compatible with existing HD formats. It's your TV that needs to provide support for it. That's all, and I seriously doubt there's any TV advertised as 3D capable that doesn't support the frame-compatible modes.


----------



## 1999cobra

I'm so sorry for you guys with DTV not being able to get Tivo... I just got the new premiere and it is just the nuts ... There just isn't anything better out their my opinion.:up:


----------



## Athenian

dswallow said:


> That's because there is absolutely nothing needed to support it if the receiver can handle a regular HD channel. All 3D from DirecTV (and, actually, every other broadcast, satellite and cable source) is frame-compatible with existing HD formats. It's your TV that needs to provide support for it. That's all, and I seriously doubt there's any TV advertised as 3D capable that doesn't support the frame-compatible modes.


That's good to know. My reading of the 3D threads in the dbstalk forum was that equipment matters but AVRs do seem to be causing the most problems.


----------



## CuriousMark

BBURNES said:


> If I had to guess:
> - it probably will have broadband access for some features out of the box (obviously not netflix, amazon and blockbuster)


It is on the DirecTV or TiVo website that it will have DirecTV Cinema which is broadband delivered movies and VOD.



> - probably will have TTG and TTGB


I doubt it, anything the unit does must be done via DirecTV's servers, not TiVo's, and I think DirecTV would not allow TTG since TiVo's DRM has been broken.



> - music (itunes) and photo support


Probably not iTunes, but perhaps music and photos the TiVo way, as opposed to the DirecTV DLNA way. Rumor has it, that it will not support the DirecTV DLNA based method.



> - will NOT have new interface (they've already said this). But if they're smart, they'll build it on the new Flash platform and use old interface for now -- update to new interface in future


It is expected that it will be built on the HR21 platform which does not have the flash platform (it is pretty much the same as a TiVo HD) This is based on a UL approval being given to a THR21 device about 6 months ago.


> - will NOT have whole home support out of the box. but like HD interface, will be added in future update.


Whole home could be added at a late date much more easily than an HD interface could.


----------



## Adam1115

BBURNES said:


> - probably will have TTG and TTGB


I sure hope not!

If it doesn't support whole home DVR, I won't be interested...


----------



## aavi722

Athenian said:


> We still own two DirecTiVos (one of which has a bad tuner) and an HR15 but I think that when we get a new TV, we'll unsuspend our DirecTV subscription and get 3 HDVR24s so we can have Video on Demand, Whole House DVR, and 3D. The retention rep promised me all of the equipment at no charge along with a year's rebate on HD programming last September but I was trying to hold out until the DirecTiVo was released. After reading about the new box though, I just can't see any reason to keep stalling.


I would advise you not to believe or buy into anything a "rep" told you or promised you about the specific equipment you will receive. I wanted HR-24 receivers too which I asked for specifically. I got two HR-21's.

Their contractor installers will give you whatever they have on the truck. DirecTV representatives promises don't mean diddley. I can tell you from experience.

I was also lied to about the DirecTV TiVo being available at the latest last fall and it was the only reason I signed up. I'm fed up enough that I'm going to cancel and play the tape recording I made of those promises to a very high up senior management executive at DirecTV if that TiVo isn't available in April.


----------



## 1999cobra

aavi722 said:


> I'm fed up enough that I'm going to cancel and play the tape recording I made of those promises to a very high up senior management executive at DirecTV if that TiVo isn't available in April.


And you think they will care or it will make a difference ...


----------



## Tigerdog1

I quit waiting. I had canceled my HD service several months ago when my dish quit delivering an HD signal to the one HD receiver that I had. Now, the receiver is fried and needs to be replaced. They're sending out a tech on Monday to see the problem. They'll have to replace the receiver and tweak the dish so I'll get HD back on. 

I have seven boxes and have been a loyal DirecTV customer for nine years. I order the MLB package and the NHL package every year. I give them $ 150 per month, or $ 1800 per year. I got a new Sony Bravia 55 inch TV in the living room, where I have surround sound built in, and I've put off ordering HD service there. That's where I have my old TiVo box, but it's not HD. Well, I just ordered another DVR for that room with HD. They're giving it to me for $ 99 with no charge for install and no charge for the tech to come out and scope the problem with the non working HD receiver. Okay, so they've got me for another 24 months while I was going month to month. 

I'll have my current TiVo receiver moved to another room so I can save the programs that are on my current box and I'll use it on a non HD TV in the other room. I don't have a DVR of any kind in that room, my office where I watch plenty of TV as I work. 

So my set up now will be two HD DVR's, one non HD DVR, one TiVo, and three standard boxes without HD or a DVR. 

Q1- Is it worth ordering the whole house DVR service for $ 3 per month? Will it work on the non HD box?
Q2- What is the advantage to having a HR 24 vs a 23 vs a 22, etc. 
Q3- Will I be able to switch to TiVo service if and when they ever get it?
Q4- anything else I should know to tell the tech? 

Thanks


----------



## litzdog911

Tigerdog1 said:


> ....
> 
> Q1- Is it worth ordering the whole house DVR service for $ 3 per month? Will it work on the non HD box?
> Q2- What is the advantage to having a HR 24 vs a 23 vs a 22, etc.
> Q3- Will I be able to switch to TiVo service if and when they ever get it?
> Q4- anything else I should know to tell the tech?
> 
> Thanks


1. Yes, it's worth it! No, it won't work with non-HD boxes. 
2. If you order WHDVR service you're much more likely to get the newer HR24s because they have the required DECA coax network adapters built-in. The HR24 is a speedier architecture.
3. Who knows. Probably. But it's not likely to support WHDVR services.
4. Since you want to keep your existing Tivo you must be sure the tech installs a conventional Slimline HD dish along with a separate SWM8 switch, and not the combined SWM Slimline dish. That's because the SWM8 has legacy outputs that can be used for you older non-SWM compatible equipment.


----------



## Tigerdog1

litzdog911 said:


> 1. Yes, it's worth it! No, it won't work with non-HD boxes.
> 2. If you order WHDVR service you're much more likely to get the newer HR24s because they have the required DECA coax network adapters built-in. The HR24 is a speedier architecture.
> 3. Who knows. Probably. But it's not likely to support WHDVR services.
> 4. Since you want to keep your existing Tivo you must be sure the tech installs a conventional Slimline HD dish along with a separate SWM8 switch, and not the combined SWM Slimline dish. That's because the SWM8 has legacy outputs that can be used for you older non-SWM compatible equipment.


I already have an HD dish because I had one working HD receiver a year ago, but something went wrong with it, they wanted too much to fix it, and I canceled HD service, waiting until they came out with the TiVo STB. I just gave up on that plan, but the dish is still there. If they can tweak it to make it right, it should work, as it is working with the TiVo set now. The problem on my one HD receiver is compounded by the box being fried, so they'll have to replace that.

I will order the whole house feature, but it will apparently only work on my two HD sets. I do have another DVR in the bedroom, and I'll have my TiVo in the office, but they're not HD.


----------



## Tigerdog1

so I'll pass on that feature for now. My two HD receivers are in adjacent rooms, and I have an HD DVR in each room, which is fine for my purposes.


----------



## HiDefGator

Tigerdog1 said:


> so I'll pass on that feature for now. My two HD receivers are in adjacent rooms, and I have an HD DVR in each room, which is fine for my purposes.


do you already have wired cat5 you can run to each one? if so maybe you could just have it turned on with no setup.


----------



## HallWhite

Obviously, I'm new to posting here, but have lurked at this site off and on for years. I'm not new to DTV, first got it in the early 80's and I got a 10-250 many years later. Moved to San Diego about three years ago, endured Time Warner for most of that time but survived with a Tivo Series 3. Last week I switched back to DTV and now use their HR 24. Now to the point - I got two brothers as the installers, both of whom were employees, not contractors. The older of the two attended some DTV show and tell for employees, hosted by DTV's President. The meeting was to showcase new technology rollouts. A number of interesting things were introduced and among them was the new Tivo. This guy had no details on its functionality, only said it is for real and its release is imminent. He also said DTV will low profile its introduction to customers and that he believes it will also be a lease, with an available straight swap out for the HR 24.


----------



## codespy

HiDefGator said:


> do you already have wired cat5 you can run to each one? if so maybe you could just have it turned on with no setup.


Yep- this would be the unsupported method. Gets you out of the $200 fee.


----------



## codespy

HallWhite said:


> Obviously, I'm new to posting here, but have lurked at this site off and on for years. I'm not new to DTV, first got it in the early 80's and I got a 10-250 many years later.........


DirecTV was around in the early 80's?  I never knew that.


----------



## HiDefGator

codespy said:


> DirecTV was around in the early 80's?  I never knew that.


I think he must have meant early 90's.


----------



## Cudahy

Since we're now into February with no sign of the new DirecTivo, what's the earliest realistic possibility - May?


----------



## SullyND

HiDefGator said:


> I think he must have meant early 90's.


Didn't DirecTV start in the mid-90s?


----------



## HallWhite

Yeah, I stated that incorrectly, but my recollection is that it was somewhere in the mid to late 80's. We were in Santa Monica, near Hughes in El Segundo. We were among their first customers, according to DTV, and I did the install myself - an 18" round dish and one coax. Life was simpler then. We may have been a Beta test, they didn't tell us.


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## litzdog911

DirecTV started in 1994 ....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directv


----------



## stevel

I thought everyone knew that 90 is the new 80.


----------



## HallWhite

I'm aware of what Wikipedia says. And I'm sorry I can't provide a copy of the paperwork associated with the original install. I can only assume they did a local intro ahead of the national rollout. And it is of no great concern to me whether you choose to believe the detail I provided.
What surprises me, however, is this laser-like focus on a detail that is largely irrelevant to the point of the post - the anticipated release of the Direct Tivo. The installer, by the way, also stated that DTV was going to be releasing a complete revamp of the UI it is using on the HR-24. And you are also welcome to believe that, or not.


----------



## litzdog911

Just setting the record straight, HallWhite. No worries. It's good to know that you've found an installer with an inside track on the facts.


----------



## HiDefGator

HallWhite said:


> I'm aware of what Wikipedia says. And I'm sorry I can't provide a copy of the paperwork associated with the original install. I can only assume they did a local intro ahead of the national rollout.


In the 80's they didn't even have a SAT up there yet. So it seems pretty unlikely that you got an early install of Directv in the 80's.


----------



## SullyND

HiDefGator said:


> In the 80's they didn't even have a SAT up there yet. So it seems pretty unlikely that you got an early install of Directv in the 80's.


He could have had Primestar, didn't they start in the early 90s?


----------



## HiDefGator

SullyND said:


> He could have had Primestar, didn't they start in the early 90s?


I don't know but I'm pretty sure if Directv didn't start service until 1994 that they weren't doing beta customers in the 80's.


----------



## litzdog911

Primestar started in 1991 ....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primestar


----------



## Series3Sub

CuriousMark said:


> Last October at the Nataxis Bleichroeder Hidden Gems conference TiVo's CEO, Tom Rogers, said that it would not be a middle-ware supported download like the Comcast box. Unfortunately he didn't say much more than that either.
> 
> I think the leading speculation is that it will be TiVo Software on an HR2X platform, but that still no more than a guess.


Ewww! The Comcast model (middle-ware). IMHO, that is sad as I have seen many complaints--and read articles--on how poorly the Comcast/TiVo was implemented. I know it probably was a fantasy for think it would be more of a real TiVo adapted for DirecTV, but I do think that would be better. Oh, well. TiVo is lucky to be getting what it will with DirecTV.


----------



## CuriousMark

Series3Sub said:


> Ewww! The Comcast model (middle-ware). IMHO, that is sad as I have seen many complaints--and read articles--on how poorly the Comcast/TiVo was implemented. I know it probably was a fantasy for think it would be more of a real TiVo adapted for DirecTV, but I do think that would be better. Oh, well. TiVo is lucky to be getting what it will with DirecTV.


Huh,

He said it would NOT be the Comcast model. It is real TiVo software on real hardware, a true port. We now know it is going to be HR22 hardware.

Yes, TiVo is lucky to get what they can. This seems really like nothing more than a long delayed goodbye kiss as TiVo leaves satellite and finishes its permanent move to the cable world. Just an Auld Lang Syne.


----------



## HiDefGator

CuriousMark said:


> This seems really like nothing more than a long delayed goodbye kiss as TiVo leaves satellite and finishes its permanent move to the cable world. Just an Auld Lang Syne.


Nah. Dish is going to be their best partner in the near future. Likely the only MSO to actually pay Tivo for every DVR deployed.


----------



## appleye1

Yeah, Primestar was available several years before DirecTv. I had Primestar and then moved to DirecTv/USSB in the mid-90s. (I will not however attempt to estimate exactly when I first had Primestar! ) I believe DirecTv swallowed them up later correct?


----------



## litzdog911

appleye1 said:


> Yeah, Primestar was available several years before DirecTv. I had Primestar and then moved to DirecTv/USSB in the mid-90s. (I will not however attempt to estimate exactly when I first had Primestar! ) I believe DirecTv swallowed them up later correct?


Yep, see my earlier post for a Wikipedia link to PrimeStar's brief history. Primestar started in 1991.


----------



## catocony

Actually, the way that Tivo is losing subscribers, unless they get bought out by one of the major providers - cable or satellite - I doubt if they'll be around in 5 years. The truth is that the vast majority of people don't really care about what software or system their DVR runs. They're just glad to have a DVR and will use whatever comes in the box they get from their provider. From a DirecTV perspective, things used to be different when you bought your gear instead of renting it. I remember taking a while to test out the different receivers - there were a couple of different ones - when I first subscribed, of course Tivo was the first and only option for DVRs. When they transitioned over to the horrible R15 back in 2005, I was shocked that a few of my friends loved it. But, they hadn't used a DVR before and the R15 was a heck of a lot better than not having one. 

When I showed them, side by side, a DirecTivo and an R15 side-by-side, they all said the same thing - the Tivo was better, but not enough to complain about if they had an R15 instead.

I really think that the new HD DirecTivo - assuming it comes out this year - will be a minor event, if any. I think if they try and charge a premium AT ALL - or certainly more than a couple of bucks a month - that they'll find few takers for the product. 

The number of people who care about the menu system on one DVR versus another are very few, and the ones willing to pay more for a perceived better one are few and far between.


----------



## Win Joy Jr

HallWhite said:


> I'm aware of what Wikipedia says. And I'm sorry I can't provide a copy of the paperwork associated with the original install. I can only assume they did a local intro ahead of the national rollout. And it is of no great concern to me whether you choose to believe the detail I provided.
> What surprises me, however, is this laser-like focus on a detail that is largely irrelevant to the point of the post - the anticipated release of the Direct Tivo. The installer, by the way, also stated that DTV was going to be releasing a complete revamp of the UI it is using on the HR-24. And you are also welcome to believe that, or not.


Well, considering that DirecTV-1 was launched in December 1993...


----------



## catocony

The start dates for the companies does not equate to when they got their first bird in the sky and started transmitting. Nor does it equate to when dishes and receivers became available for sale.

The first person I knew with DirecTV got it in 1995, I believe. He also got a bootleg card that had every channel decrypted, including the networks (before locals were available). I seem to remember that the NBC east feed was out of Nashville or something? They picked some strange cities to use as the nationwide network stations.

Of course, a decade earlier, my uncle had an old big dish and used to love watching the raw feeds of Johnny Carson and Late Night with David Letterman. All the cussing, all of the bloopers, all there to see for anyone with a dish pointed at the right satellite. I also remember the days before HBO went 24/7/365 - it was weird having the network on only from 6:00 PM EST until about 4:00 AM Monday to Thursday.


----------



## HallWhite

Since the debate continues to rage on over when I first installed my DTV (and it was Direct TV, not Primestar) setup, perhaps I can put this to rest. I have a pretty decent memory surrounding this project, even recalling where I bought the equipment and the manufacturer of the receiver - RCA, not Thompson. I also checked with my wife concerning the approximate time frame, since she never forgets anything I do, particularly if it involves her television viewing experience. She concurred with the date range I supplied. I suppose I could have aimed the dish wrong and we were really watching a military spy bird for all those years, but I don't think so.  Under the crushing avalanche of evidence that I couldn't possibly have done the install during those years, however, I'm more than happy to concede the point. What I was trying to suggest in my original post is that I have have considerable history with Direct TV. Hopefully all can agree on at least that.


----------



## stevel

Just realize that since none of us know anything useful about the new HD DTiVo - and I'd wager that includes your installer - seizing on arcane details in your posts is what passes for entertainment here.


----------



## brott

HallWhite said:


> Since the debate continues to rage on over when I first installed my DTV (and it was Direct TV, not Primestar) setup, perhaps I can put this to rest. I have a pretty decent memory surrounding this project, even recalling where I bought the equipment and the manufacturer of the receiver - RCA, not Thompson.
> ...


How many digits long is your DIRECTV account number? That will give a general time frame as to when you got your service.


----------



## HallWhite

Brott: I could only recover the account number for the last year that I had the old DTV account and it had seven digits. I don't know, however, if there was any account number change over the many preceding years.


----------



## brott

HallWhite said:


> Brott: I could only recover the account number for the last year that I had the old DTV account and it had seven digits. I don't know, however, if there was any account number change over the many preceding years.


I have a 7-digit account number starting with a 3 and I first got service in January '96. I'm pretty sure the earliest accounts were activated in late '94 although that was so far back my memory is fading.


----------



## mikesun206

brott said:


> I have a 7-digit account number starting with a 3 and I first got service in January '96. I'm pretty sure the earliest accounts were activated in late '94 although that was so far back my memory is fading.


I started my Directv service in October 1994 when the nationwide rollout happened. There was a short time (only about 3 months) that it was not nationwide. My account number is 108xxx and has never changed since I started my service October 1994.

I purchased my single receiver and single LNB dish at Sears, one of the few stores that had it available and paid just over $1000 for that.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Tigerdog1

HiDefGator said:


> do you already have wired cat5 you can run to each one? if so maybe you could just have it turned on with no setup.


Have whole house turned on? I guess I don't get your question. I know that Cat 5 is the cable. I have seven sets wired, now four have DVR's, two of those are HD.


----------



## atc363

Well as usual the rumored Directv/Tivo box is a mirage still further away on the highway. Anybody got any new info that is meaningful on this, or are the companies waiting for the Dish/Tivo court decision (just like last year)?


----------



## litzdog911

atc363 said:


> Well as usual the rumored Directv/Tivo box is a mirage still further away on the highway. Anybody got any new info that is meaningful on this, or are the companies waiting for the Dish/Tivo court decision (just like last year)?


No. There are no "court decisions" in the way.

Follow the action here ....
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=188103

They're being tested now. Looks like we should see the new Tivo around June.


----------



## atc363

It is correct that the pending decision does not directly affect Directv, inasmuch as Directv is paying royalties to use Tivo's patented software. Nevertheless, this is the highest court yet (all eleven judges of the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit - leaving only the Supreme Court) to hear the dispute over Tivo's patented software. Experts project a 5 percent possibility that the Court could issue a decision clarifying the parameters of Tivo's patented software and going beyond the immediate contempt issues on appeal in that case. A far reaching patent clarification decision could directly impact the features that Tivo could legally include in software in new DVRs packaged under its name.


----------



## litzdog911

Like I said, none of this court stuff impacts the relationship between DirecTV and Tivo.


----------



## atc363

Latest news via Tweeter is that Tivo and Directv "may" issue a DVR in late 2011. Since they have not hit "may" deadlines previously, it is best to be patient.


----------



## Adam1115

atc363 said:


> Latest news via Tweeter is that Tivo and Directv "may" issue a DVR in late 2011. Since they have not hit "may" deadlines previously, it is best to be patient.


HA that figures.


----------



## weaknees

Just in case anyone thinks Tweeter is still in business (since they were in a somewhat related world) I'm pretty sure the poster meant Twitter.

Here's more info:

http://www.wkblog.com/tivo/2011/02/directv-tivo-hd-dvr-delayed-yet-again/


----------



## innocentfreak

I know over at DBStalk they have been saying after April/May for a bit now.


----------



## litzdog911

innocentfreak said:


> I know over at DBStalk they have been saying after April/May for a bit now.


More recent speculation is ~June. But who the heck really knows.


----------



## eddyj

Apenpluse said:


> Я предпологал это невозможно и осознал обратное! Кстати всем привет, для по началу и потом уже приступим к обсуждению Вобщем такая крутая по моему мнению статья! Надыбал в интернет сети портал: stolichnyi com/interesting-facts/]интересные факты из жизни и предлагаю вам его наведать Вобщем меня привлёк там сама смысловая нагрузка портала! он какойто не внятный и мне чувствуется, что я попал в точку Как Вам данный портал и что Вы сможете о нём написать? Жду вашей критики по этому типа сайту


Well, that explains the delays!


----------



## fasTLane

Now we are getting Russian spam? Break out the vodka.


----------



## ZardozTX

They did Beta tests of DTV in a few citys. Tulsa, OK was one of the first. I drove from Dallas to Tulsa to get one of these early RCA units. My account number is 00010xxx. RCA got to sell the first 1 Million units - before Sony and others could sell units. TiVo came out some time later and had a serial link to the Sony unit that made it very transparent - not unlike the current DTV/TiVo units of today.


----------



## jonbig

ZardozTX said:


> They did Beta tests of DTV in a few citys. Tulsa, OK was one of the first. I drove from Dallas to Tulsa to get one of these early RCA units. My account number is 00010xxx. RCA got to sell the first 1 Million units - before Sony and others could sell units. TiVo came out some time later and had a serial link to the Sony unit that made it very transparent - not unlike the current DTV/TiVo units of today.


Yeah, the Sony link was great. I bought a Sony B2 DirectTV receiver and a Sony VCR so I could get one click recording just by connecting a cable between the units. Very sweet in the pre-DVR days.


----------



## farmdwg

Try the end of 2011 at the earliest. DirecTV has relayed this to me via Twitter. Incredible.


----------



## austinsho

The delays, for whatever reason, have indeed been outrageous. The state of the art will have passed this box by before it gets into the field...if it hasn't already.


----------



## eddyj

If this is true, I've had it. I can't stretch out my old HDVR2s and HR10-250, they are all getting cranky. It might be time to give up and upgrade to the current HR20s.


----------



## jmace57

I'm feeling better about disconnecting my (HD) TiVos and going to the HR24. I had been waiting for this for years and gave up in January.


----------



## ronsch

I'm thinking I would rather dump DirecTV for Comcast and get a Premiere if my S1 DTiVo gives out....


----------



## fasTLane

+1


----------



## shwru980r

When the Direct TV Tivo released, is Direct TV going to let the customer request the Tivo? Direct TV won't let customers request their own new models of DVR. How many Tivos will be available when they are released? It would be a huge cost to Direct TV if a large number of customers trade in their existing DVR for a Tivo. I think it will be very difficult for a customer to obtain one of these new Tivos when they are released. I think Direct TV is playing games with Tivo to avoid a large monetary judgment like the one against Dish Network.


----------



## eddyj

ronsch said:


> I'm thinking I would rather dump DirecTV for Comcast and get a Premiere if my S1 DTiVo gives out....


Having dealt with Comcast around here while helping friends and family, I'd much rather avoid that!  But I am certainly considering it.


----------



## CuriousMark

Hey I am going to have to deal with Time Warner, so you Comcast folks should count yourselves lucky. Of course first I will have to convince my wife to make to make the jump, but I am workin' it.


----------



## rwardfla

I finally gave up on the new Tivne of my 3 HDVR2s finally gave up the ghost so I got the HR24.It's pretty good.The HD is great and I wish I had made the switch sooner.My wife can operate the new machine so if she's happy I'm happy.


----------



## farmdwg

DirecTV finally updated their website and removed the "Early 2011" from it.

http://support.directv.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/77/~/directv-relationship-with-tivo---new-hd-dvr


----------



## eddyj

Well, that does it for me. I am not waiting any more.


----------



## Sea bass

Sad really...


----------



## eddyj

eddyj said:


> Well, that does it for me. I am not waiting any more.


As of Friday, my two HDVR2s were swapped out for HR23s. I still have an HR10-250, but only because the wife really does not want to switch interfaces. But if it starts going bad too, that will be it. Sad indeed.


----------



## BrettStah

eddyj said:


> As of Friday, my two HDVR2s were swapped out for HR23s. I still have an HR10-250, but only because the wife really does not want to switch interfaces. But if it starts going bad too, that will be it. Sad indeed.


My wife was resistant to the change away from the Tivo interface too - but the HR2x GUI really is pretty decent - I miss the "List" guide, and pretty much nothing else. There are multiple features that I find that are better on the HR2x software, but I'm comparing it to the latest DirecTivo software released, and not any standalone software.


----------



## mercurial

eddyj said:


> As of Friday, my two HDVR2s were swapped out for HR23s. I still have an HR10-250, but only because the wife really does not want to switch interfaces. But if it starts going bad too, that will be it. Sad indeed.


Man, I would have gone for the HR24s. I understand the 23's are a bit laggy in the UI. But I switched from TWC/TiVo straight to the DTV/H(R)24s for everything.

I have to admit, with Whole-House DVR, the remote scheduling apps, DTV's VOD, and the HomeMedia functionality tied to a server running PlayOn, I'm pretty happy. The only thing I really *miss* is the ability to TTG shows to my desktop to burn but with the CCI settings that TWC was using the ability to TTG/MRV was pretty much gone and I have a standalone DVD-R that I can use in a pinch if I want to pull something off for friend or to archive.


----------



## eddyj

mercurial said:


> Man, I would have gone for the HR24s. I understand the 23's are a bit laggy in the UI. But I switched from TWC/TiVo straight to the DTV/H(R)24s for everything.


These got replaced for free under the maintenance I pay, so I had little choice about what I would get. I also had my old HR20 replaced, but that was with another HR20. The guy did not even know what he had in the truck, he just had the three boxes given to him in the morning. So it was a crapshoot as to what I would get.


----------



## mercurial

Yeah, but in the long run, I think the $200/ea to get exactly what you want from a reseller is a bargain. I've seen a lot of folks on forums unhappy with the speed of the 23s.


----------



## eddyj

mercurial said:


> Yeah, but in the long run, I think the $200/ea to get exactly what you want from a reseller is a bargain. I've seen a lot of folks on forums unhappy with the speed of the 23s.


We'll see. Those ended up in the bedrooms (low use). The main one is the HR20 (which I would guess is even slower?). I kept that one there since all my old recordings are on the external drive, and I did not know if the 32s would be compatible or just reformat the external and lose all my stuff.


----------



## mercurial

Yeah, you can't move the external drives around and keep the recordings. No idea the speed on the older ones. Just saw the 23s called out specifically.


----------



## spanishannouncetable

BrettStah said:


> My wife was resistant to the change away from the Tivo interface too - but the HR2x GUI really is pretty decent - I miss the "List" guide, and pretty much nothing else. There are multiple features that I find that are better on the HR2x software, but I'm comparing it to the latest DirecTivo software released, and not any standalone software.


While in the guide cursor to the left and highlight the channel name, then press the "INFO" button on the remote. This will bring up all the guide info for this channel for the next ~2 weeks.

It's not exactly the list guide but I've found it to be a reasonable substitute.


----------



## HiDefGator

eddyj said:


> The main one is the HR20 (which I would guess is even slower?).


the 20's aren't bad. they are 2nd best to the 24's in terms of speed. It's just the middle numbers 21-23 that aren't as snappy. Some users never notice the difference. It isn't huge.


----------



## eddyj

HiDefGator said:


> the 20's aren't bad. they are 2nd best to the 24's in terms of speed. It's just the middle numbers 21-23 that aren't as snappy. Some users never notice the difference. It isn't huge.


Silly me, thinking the new ones would be snappier!

And I was dismayed to find that all my old recordings on the external drive would not play on the new hardware, even the same model.  At least I did not have to recreate all me season passes.


----------



## larrs

catocony said:


> Actually, the way that Tivo is losing subscribers, unless they get bought out by one of the major providers - cable or satellite - I doubt if they'll be around in 5 years. The truth is that the vast majority of people don't really care about what software or system their DVR runs. They're just glad to have a DVR and will use whatever comes in the box they get from their provider. From a DirecTV perspective, things used to be different when you bought your gear instead of renting it. I remember taking a while to test out the different receivers - there were a couple of different ones - when I first subscribed, of course Tivo was the first and only option for DVRs. When they transitioned over to the horrible R15 back in 2005, I was shocked that a few of my friends loved it. But, they hadn't used a DVR before and the R15 was a heck of a lot better than not having one.
> 
> When I showed them, side by side, a DirecTivo and an R15 side-by-side, they all said the same thing - the Tivo was better, but not enough to complain about if they had an R15 instead.
> 
> I really think that the new HD DirecTivo - assuming it comes out this year - will be a minor event, if any. I think if they try and charge a premium AT ALL - or certainly more than a couple of bucks a month - that they'll find few takers for the product.
> 
> The number of people who care about the menu system on one DVR versus another are very few, and the ones willing to pay more for a perceived better one are few and far between.


I'll agree with this.

And, your post made me remember my spending days and days at Sears looking at the different D* receivers in the mid 90's. I ended up paying like $700 for a receiver that came with the first MRV. A ProScan box that came with two sets of outputs and two remotes with a remote sender/receiver set. I ran like 50' of cable from the Family room to the master bedroom through the attic. But, I could watch a single box in two locations!

Good times...


----------



## larrs

mercurial said:


> Man, I would have gone for the HR24s. I understand the 23's are a bit laggy in the UI. But I switched from TWC/TiVo straight to the DTV/H(R)24s for everything.
> 
> I have to admit, with Whole-House DVR, the remote scheduling apps, DTV's VOD, and the HomeMedia functionality tied to a server running PlayOn, I'm pretty happy. The only thing I really *miss* is the ability to TTG shows to my desktop to burn but with the CCI settings that TWC was using the ability to TTG/MRV was pretty much gone and I have a standalone DVD-R that I can use in a pinch if I want to pull something off for friend or to archive.


How well does the PlayOn work for you?

I am considering a move back to D*- especially if the Tivo ever surfaces.


----------



## weaknees

Around here, we're all finding the HR24s to be noticeably faster. I can't say they're always instant, but they do seem to be an improvement. They're also smaller and they have built-in DECA, which is nice.

By the way, if you are about to get a free unit as a swap, or just as a promotion for a good customer, DirecTV will often let you purchase the unit from a retailer and then just get credit for it on your bill. That way, you'll know you get an HR24 (at least, if you order from us you will) instead of whatever refurb unit DirecTV has hanging around.

Our units are here:

http://www.weaknees.com/directv-hd-dvr.php

We ship everyday, and we even drop-ship these from many locations around the country, so they usually arrive within three business days.


----------



## eddyj

weaknees said:


> Around here, we're all finding the HR24s to be noticeably faster. I can't say they're always instant, but they do seem to be an improvement. They're also smaller and they have built-in DECA, which is nice.
> 
> By the way, if you are about to get a free unit as a swap, or just as a promotion for a good customer, DirecTV will often let you purchase the unit from a retailer and then just get credit for it on your bill. That way, you'll know you get an HR24 (at least, if you order from us you will) instead of whatever refurb unit DirecTV has hanging around.
> 
> Our units are here:
> 
> http://www.weaknees.com/directv-hd-dvr.php
> 
> We ship everyday, and we even drop-ship these from many locations around the country, so they usually arrive within three business days.


Now you tell me! 

Would this have worked with units to be swapped under the maintenance plan? The 2 HDVR2s that I got swapped (for HR23s) were owned, not leased.


----------



## weaknees

eddyj said:


> Now you tell me!
> 
> Would this have worked with units to be swapped under the maintenance plan? The 2 HDVR2s that I got swapped (for HR23s) were owned, not leased.


Impossible to know - I think it just varies by account. If you pay on time and never ask for freebies . . .

You might give them a call, express your displeasure, suggest an alternate solution, and see if they'd be willing to let you send those in and then credit you for similar units from us.


----------



## wpshell

Been a loyal DTV subscriber for 11 years. Loved my DTivos, especially after I enabled MRV. 
Little did I know four years ago that it wasn't going to get any better than that. I've been limping along on an old HR10-250 hoping for the mythical new Dtivo. It died a few weeks ago and I decided to build a HTPC. Did that and found that Windows Media Center is pretty good.
I live in Atlanta and can get all the major networks over the air. Just discovered that I can get ESPN3 on the web for FREE!!!
I have HULU Plus and Netflix.
So the question is..... why in the world am I still paying DTV any money?
I've just about gotten my wife convinced that we can get by without a provider. So I'll be pulling the plug shortly.
I might have stayed if I felt like DTV & Tivo were being up front. I'm now coming to the sad conclusion that this thing was never gonna happen. Just DTV's way of keeping us Tivo fans hanging around long enough to just give in.
I don't like feeling like I've been lied to.


----------



## BrettStah

Biggest reasons for me to stick with DirecTV (or any of their competitors), versus going OTA/web like you are talking about, wpshell:

1) Sports - espn3.com doesn't show most of the stuff that is shown on ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPNU. It's basically the 5th place outlet (after those ESPN channels and ABC) for sports. 

2) Movie channels - we don't go to the movie theater as often as we used to due to cost, inconvenience, and we get a better a/v experience at home these days. Also, we don't tend to re-watch movies, so we don't buy DVDs/Blu-ray discs much (with some exception). 

3) Less work for me - the DirecTV DVRs are surprisingly capable, and have a small learning curve for kids and the wife, and there aren't as many things that could interrupt the viewing experience (Windows Updates, anti-virus scans, etc., incompatibilities caused by updates which cause registry editing, reverting to older versions, etc.). 

By the way, I already have a PC with Windows Media Center software hooked up in our main viewing room (no capture cards/tuners, however) - we normally don't use the Media Center software, however - we use it to view online content, and I have kids movies ripped/downloaded to it so that they can watch things easily via a wireless keyboard and Windows Explorer. I want to get it hooked up and configured so that we can use the Harmony remote to do that, but after some early failures to locate the perfect front-end GUI, I put that on hold. I had trouble finding a front-end that would let me easily navigate and play back all of the video file formats I wanted it to be able to play. XBMC came closest, so I'll probably give that another shot soon...


----------



## mercurial

larrs said:


> How well does the PlayOn work for you?
> 
> I am considering a move back to D*- especially if the Tivo ever surfaces.


The only real downside is, unlike with TiVo and PyTiVo (or streaming to a game console with PlayOn/TVersity), you can only pause. You can't rew/ff streams or resume them after stopping. But it's a good stop-gap in the rooms where we don't have consoles but occasionally want to stream a movie - like my daughter's room or my mom's room. It will also do Hulu/Youtube/Netflix/etc. but I haven't played too much with that.

In general, I think DTV with their boxes is better than TWC was with all TiVos.


----------



## stevel

You can now do YouTube directly on HR2x boxes - no need for PlayOn.


----------



## mercurial

Yeah, I forgot I noticed that the other day when I was doing a search.

Too bad I doubt they'll ever support Netflix natively...


----------



## cantil

Called tech support had to get xfered to the engineering dept had audio issues with a local programming other in area are having the same issue but on a side note after giving all my information i asked about the new tivo units the guy stated that the units where built and would be comming out somewhere in the next 90 days and also said the units would be limited quantities and you would have to buy the box it would not be a leased unit as the other dtv boxes are. again could be a pipe dream but one can hope


----------



## catocony

I'm going to treat all reports and tales about the new HD DirecTivo like Bigfoot sightings - 99.999% unbelievable, but with just enough of a glimmer of truth to believe thousandth of a percent that I'll see one for real one day.


----------



## stevel

If we get enough different supposed claims from phone support agents (who probably know nothing about it but have been trained to say anything to get the customer off the phone), then one of them will probably be close enough to the truth. Goodness knows, though, that we have seen many come through that were evidently wrong.


----------



## jdrod

I've been waiting for this HDDirecTivo like most of you have, but I'm really thinking about switching to one of the DTV HD units. We have one of their SD units and I'm not a big fan. That being said, the feature that I missed was the ability to switch back and forth between 2 separate channels.

My question is, how does the Doubleplay feature compare to Tivo's ability to move around to different channels simultaneously? Can you browse channels on one tuner while having the other set on a second channel? I see on the DTV website it talks about recording the two channels, which was the work around on the SD DTV DVR. I wasn't thrilled with being tied down like that.


----------



## BrettStah

jdrod said:


> I've been waiting for this HDDirecTivo like most of you have, but I'm really thinking about switching to one of the DTV HD units. We have one of their SD units and I'm not a big fan. That being said, the feature that I missed was the ability to switch back and forth between 2 separate channels.
> 
> My question is, how does the Doubleplay feature compare to Tivo's ability to move around to different channels simultaneously? Can you browse channels on one tuner while having the other set on a second channel? I see on the DTV website it talks about recording the two channels, which was the work around on the SD DTV DVR. I wasn't thrilled with being tied down like that.


Basically, you will always affect the active tuner unless and until you press the down arrow to switch to the other tuner (or if you use the "Previous Channel" button, and the previous channel was on the other tuner). Just remember to press Pause before switching or it will catch up live when you switch back.

By the way, semi-related topic - I love how the previous channel button works between two recordings, one recording and one live show, and/or two live shows. The Tivos only allowed me to switch between two live shows.


----------



## jdrod

BrettStah said:


> Basically, you will always affect the active tuner unless and until you press the down arrow to switch to the other tuner (or if you use the "Previous Channel" button, and the previous channel was on the other tuner). Just remember to press Pause before switching or it will catch up live when you switch back.
> 
> By the way, semi-related topic - I love how the previous channel button works between two recordings, one recording and one live show, and/or two live shows. The Tivos only allowed me to switch between two live shows.


IOW, it works, pretty much, like the Tivo then? If so, its probably time for me to switch. Never thought the day would come.


----------



## BrettStah

jdrod said:


> IOW, it works, pretty much, like the Tivo then? If so, its probably time for me to switch. Never thought the day would come.


Except it's better.


----------



## Admdata

BrettStah said:


> Basically, you will always affect the active tuner unless and until you press the down arrow to switch to the other tuner (or if you use the "Previous Channel" button, and the previous channel was on the other tuner). Just remember to press Pause before switching or it will catch up live when you switch back.
> 
> By the way, semi-related topic - I love how the previous channel button works between two recordings, one recording and one live show, and/or two live shows. The Tivos only allowed me to switch between two live shows.


I have a directv DVR as well (a SD one) and if the current tuner is recording a program and I want to change the channel, the DVR will switch to the 2nd tuner automatically and goto the 2nd channel (of of course that is only if the 2nd tuner isn't recording a program as well)


----------



## BrettStah

Admdata said:


> I have a directv DVR as well (a SD one) and if the current tuner is recording a program and I want to change the channel, the DVR will switch to the 2nd tuner automatically and goto the 2nd channel (of of course that is only if the 2nd tuner isn't recording a program as well)


Very good correction... I didn't think of that scenario.


----------



## DallasFlier

mercurial said:


> I have to admit, with Whole-House DVR, the remote scheduling apps, DTV's VOD, and the HomeMedia functionality tied to a server running PlayOn, I'm pretty happy. The only thing I really *miss* is the ability to TTG shows to my desktop to burn but with the CCI settings that TWC was using the ability to TTG/MRV was pretty much gone and I have a standalone DVD-R that I can use in a pinch if I want to pull something off for friend or to archive.


Thanks for that feedback. I've been following this for quite some time, but haven't posted - because I've had nothing to say. I'm currently with TWC with a Tivo S3 with a terabyte drive upgrade. Been looking at the Premiere, but just can't justify the bucks - particularly since my wife keeps asking why we can't watch our recorded shows on any other TV in the house, only the one where the Tivo is at - since she keeps seeing the ads from DirecTV, Uverse and others offering those features.

I've been a LONG-time Tivo customer and fan. Spent many years with a number of different DirecTivos, and then when the split happened and I wanted to go to HD, I dumped DirecTV in order to keep Tivo - by purchasing the S3, upgrading it and subscribing to TWC.

Add me to the ranks of those however, who are finally fed-up and disgusted enough to throw in the towel. My current contract with TWC is up in May, and I'll be moving to DirecTV with Whole-House DVR, VOD and PlayOn and saying goodbye for good to Tivo. Anyone want to buy an excellent-condition S3 with a 1TB drive?


----------



## iwantmyhdmitv

DallasFlier said:


> Thanks for that feedback. I've been following this for quite some time, but haven't posted - because I've had nothing to say. I'm currently with TWC with a Tivo S3 with a terabyte drive upgrade. Been looking at the Premiere, but just can't justify the bucks - particularly since my wife keeps asking why we can't watch our recorded shows on any other TV in the house, only the one where the Tivo is at - since she keeps seeing the ads from DirecTV, Uverse and others offering those features.
> 
> I've been a LONG-time Tivo customer and fan. Spent many years with a number of different DirecTivos, and then when the split happened and I wanted to go to HD, I dumped DirecTV in order to keep Tivo - by purchasing the S3, upgrading it and subscribing to TWC.
> 
> Add me to the ranks of those however, who are finally fed-up and disgusted enough to throw in the towel. My current contract with TWC is up in May, and I'll be moving to DirecTV with Whole-House DVR, VOD and PlayOn and saying goodbye for good to Tivo. Anyone want to buy an excellent-condition S3 with a 1TB drive?


Enjoy the H/HR24's. Just be sure to get those in lieu of the older versions.
The whole house DVR is a very nice feature IMO.

With the $500M settlement between TiVo and Dish, they are essentially licensing off their crown jewel patent portfolio. So we can forget about any future "improvements" in TiVo boxes.The look and feel is still a bit better, but that's where it ends. If a new HD DVR appears, it would surprise me.

I was a TiVo fanboy for 10 years, but since I am tied to DirecTV more than the hardware that it plays on, there's where I'm at. The newest DVR's and receivers are rock solid reliable. I have only had to reboot one out of 5 boxes in my house once in over 5 months! TiVo never did that.


----------



## ADent

ADent said:


> I don't know what everyone is so worked up about. TiVo has a Terrible history working with other companies.
> 
> Remember the AOLTiVo? Announced 6/14/2000. TiVo features to show up in AOLTV in early 2001. Deal killed on 5/1/2002
> 
> Remember Blockbuster TiVo? 1/7/2000 and "Blockbuster has inked a deal with the company to deliver content through TiVo boxes" . 10/13/2009 Blockbuster streaming is actually available.
> 
> Comcast TiVo? 3/15/2005 TiVo and Comcast announce joint venture. 1/9/2007 TiVo SW for Comcast announced and shown at CES. 11/2/2007 TiVo page goes live on Comcast website. 1/22/2008 first deployment of software. 5/19/2010 TiVo software still not available nationally. There are 14 (yes 14) threads with posts from all of 2010 in the Comcast TiVo forum - so it seems like there are about 10 units in use out there.
> 
> DirecTV MPEG4 HD DVR - 9/3/2008 announced - to be available "during the second half of 2009". 5/19/2010 - still no sightings, delayed to 4Q 2010.


UPDATES

Comcast TiVo - Killed 5/9/2011

Comcast Premier TiVo - Announced 5/9/2011

DirecTV HD DVR - 5/11/2011 - still no sightings - DirecTV states "in development but we hope to have it available soon". TiVo says "This new service is expected to launch in the future."


----------



## TonyD79

jdrod said:


> My question is, how does the Doubleplay feature compare to Tivo's ability to move around to different channels simultaneously? Can you browse channels on one tuner while having the other set on a second channel? I see on the DTV website it talks about recording the two channels, which was the work around on the SD DTV DVR. I wasn't thrilled with being tied down like that.


Just saw this question. Here are the differences in the dual tuners:

1. Tivo's is always on. DirecTV's is on when you ask for it (down arrow) and will stay on until there is more than 2 hours of non-interactive usage (anything that says you are still there, whether you use both tuners or not). Tivo's will survive through recordings, DirecTV's does not as it resets after the recordings are done.

2. Tivo's buffers are 30 minutes each. DirecTV's are 90.

3. DirecTV's buffers are truly indepedent. With Tivo's if you channel up/down through buffer A on buffer B, you actually jump to Buffer A. With DirecTV's, you can actually have the same channel in two different buffers.

4. You cannot see what is on the other buffer with the DirecTV one like you can with Tivo (still can?) until you go to it.

5. DirecTV uses down arrow exclusively. The last Tivo I had did not use down arrow anymore. Previous channel on DirecTV jumps to the previous channel on the tuner you are using.

6. Both use the "other" buffer to start recordings but DirecTV will use only one buffer for same channel overlaps. Tivos uses two (did I see they fixed that recently?).


----------



## schalliol

Looking forwards to updates on this new offering. Since the Web staff at DirecTV got the TiVo on there early, I assume we'll be seeing something new soon. I hope to hear more news!


----------



## BoxerMom

TiVo: DIRECTV HD DVR "Getting Close"
By Swanni

Washington, D.C. (May 25, 2011) -- TiVo said yesterday that the launch of a new DIRECTV/TiVo HD DVR is "getting close."

In a call with Wall Street analysts following the release of its first quarter report, TiVo CEO Tom Rogers said: "In terms of DIRECTV, we're making real progress. We're getting close there. They are testing the product. We will launch relatively soon, I hope."

He added: "Part of the reason that it's taking somewhat longer is a bunch of additional feature work that we were doing there. I can't comment on specific features of DIRECTV such as multi-room.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/directvtivo052511.htm


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## ducker

once it launches though, how long will it be until they iron out all the bugs? how much more of a premium are they going to charge over their own dvr? how long will it be until a mod exists to upgrade the hard drive in the unit.

Way too many unknowns for me to wait around to see when directv is going to get around to actually pushing this out, or actually committing to a date/time frame.


----------



## dshinnick

We moved into a motorhome in order to do some travelling. The King Dome satetllite receiver on the roof, which was there when we bought the motorhome, can only receive HD via DISH, or SD via Direct. So, we became DISH customers and got their 722K DVR. 

We've used it for 8 months now. If a Tivo (the old UI) were rated a "10", I would give DISH's DVR a "7". It's "ok", but does not have the elegance or ease of use of a Tivo. A comment I'm hearing more and more from the wife is, "I miss my Tivo" and "When can we go back to Tivo?".

In some ways it's just clunky and poorly designed. Like one simple example: when you're in a list of shows and you delete one, you're automatically repositioned back at the top of the list, and you have to work your way back down to where you were to delete the next show. Not horrible, but, to me, lazy programming.

And, the DVR often becomes unresponsive. I have to wait for a minute or so for it to "wake up", then all is normal again. 

For us to go with the new Directivo we'll have to remove the current king dome satellite dish and replace it with another kinda-ugly-looking satellite dish, but if the Directivo looks promising, the wife may insist on it. And she may not have to push too hard.....

:O)

dave


----------



## fasTLane

I hear you, dshinnick. How does your Dish DVR handle the dual buffer operation, if it has one?


----------



## mcpagano

dshinnick, thanks for the timely post. I was seriously thinking of going from our old SD Directv Tivo to the Dish 722k. I think I will try to wait patiently for the HD Directv Tivo.


----------



## Wil

dshinnick said:


> if the Directivo looks promising, the wife may insist on it. And she may not have to push too hard.....


The awful ff/rwnd in itself is almost enough for me to get rid of the non-Tivo as soon as I can. I don't know how people will put up with that once there's an alternative.

There are some sports and stuff where we really have no choice right now and we really hate the menu navigating as well. Except for live sports, we'll sometimes actually download a HiDef program from the internet and watch it on the old HR10-250 or some other player rather than deal with the DirecTV piece of crap.


----------



## stevel

You will likely find that any MPEG4-capable DVR will have the FF/Rew issues you complain about. It isn't the software.


----------



## dshinnick

Our King Dome can only receive from one satellite at a time, so we're only using one input on our Dish dvr, so I guess we're not using the dual buffer.

Another annoyance with the DISH dvr is that it doesn't have the automatic "rollback" after FF'ing. You Tivo users better appreciate that! It's just a pain to have to FF, start to see your show fly by, then hit rewind to go back into the tail end of the last commercial, then wait for the show to start.

Again, the dish dvr isn't *bad*, as in, unusable. It's just a Chevy compared to Tivo's Cadillac. (no offense to Chevy owners....)

And, it does have some things that I like which Tivo doesn't have, but, on average, it clearly does not measure up. How the dish dvr was voted "Best DVR" or something like that, a few years ago, I have no idea. Maybe DISH employees did the voting.....

We're just waiting for the new Directivo....

:O)


----------



## BrettStah

I'm waiting to find out:

1) How much extra will it cost per month for a DirecTivo
2) What will the DirecTivos do that the DirecTV DVRs can NOT do
3) What will the DirecTivos NOT do that the DirecTV DVRs can do

Then I'll decide if the features I'd gain and lose are worth paying the extra monthly charge. I'm thinking the answer is no, because there's really not much missing from the DirecTV DVRs (for my family's needs/wants in a DVR).


----------



## litzdog911

BrettStah said:


> I'm waiting to find out:
> 
> 1) How much extra will it cost per month for a DirecTivo
> 2) What will the DirecTivos do that the DirecTV DVRs can NOT do
> 3) What will the DirecTivos NOT do that the DirecTV DVRs can do
> 
> Then I'll decide if the features I'd gain and lose are worth paying the extra monthly charge. I'm thinking the answer is no, because there's really not much missing from the DirecTV DVRs (for my family's needs/wants in a DVR).


1) Don't know. Hasn't been announced yet.
2) Not much. Basically anything that the HR10-250 does that's not provided by the HR2x HD DVRs is about it.
3) Lots of stuff. See summary below ....

Summary of HR20/21/22/23/24 vs. HR10-250 Tivo

HR20/21/22/23/24 Advantages:
* Dual 90-min buffers (DoublePlay)
* Faster Program Guide interface
* Faster reprioritization of Series Link settings
* Remaining disk space indicator onscreen
* Single button record scheduling
* Network connectivity: Share music, photo and video files with your Media Center PC
* Easy storage capacity upgrade: Just add large capacity external SATA drive, replacing internal drive
* Caller ID displayed on screen
* Same channel overlap: Pad recording times on the same channel without requiring the second tuner
* Video stays "live" when using menus (Picture in Guide)
* Video on Demand (DirecTV CinemaPlus). Requires Internet connection.
* TV Apps: On-screen "widgets". Requires Internet connection.
* Whole Home DVR. View DVR's recordings via networked HD DVRs and HD Receivers 
* "Active channel" content and interactive features
* "Group Play" feature to play multiple shows automatically
* Simultaneous video outputs over HDMI, component, SVideo and composite video
* No phone line needed, even for initial setup and software updates
* Ability to view YouTube videos

HR10-250 Advantages:
* Tivo user interface loved by many (Wishlists, Tivo Suggestions)
* Dedicated "Slow Motion" button on remote
* Easier "skip to next/previous tick" with dedicated remote buttons
* More than 50 Season Passes/Series Links
* "Save to VCR" feature removes all on-screen menus when copying to DVD/VCR
* "Recently Deleted Folder" to recover accidentally deleted recordings


----------



## ronsch

BrettStah said:


> I'm waiting to find out:
> 
> 1) How much extra will it cost per month for a DirecTivo
> 2) What will the DirecTivos do that the DirecTV DVRs can NOT do
> 3) What will the DirecTivos NOT do that the DirecTV DVRs can do
> 
> Then I'll decide if the features I'd gain and lose are worth paying the extra monthly charge. I'm thinking the answer is no, because there's really not much missing from the DirecTV DVRs (for my family's needs/wants in a DVR).


4) What will the new DirecTivos NOT do that the current DirecTivos do?


----------



## fasTLane

Good question! What *will *the new DirecTivos NOT do that the current DirecTivos do?


----------



## BrettStah

litzdog911 said:


> 1) Don't know. Hasn't been announced yet.
> 2) Not much. Basically anything that the HR10-250 does that's not provided by the HR2x HD DVRs is about it.
> 3) Lots of stuff. See summary below ....


Good stuff (snipped for the sake of brevity, but for #2 and #3, I was referring to the new DirecTivo, not the HR10-250.


----------



## weaknees

fasTLane said:


> Good question! What *will *the new DirecTivos NOT do that the current DirecTivos do?


Exist?


----------



## litzdog911

BrettStah said:


> Good stuff (snipped for the sake of brevity, but for #2 and #3, I was referring to the new DirecTivo, not the HR10-250.


My point was that we only know that the new HD Tivo is essentially an HR10-250 that supports MPEG4 HD channels. It might not have ANY new features compared to the old HR10-250. We just don't know yet.


----------



## eddyj

litzdog911 said:


> My point was that we only know that the new HD Tivo is essentially an HR10-250 that supports MPEG4 HD channels. It might not have ANY new features compared to the old HR10-250. We just don't know yet.


We kind of do, though. Didn't DIRECTV say recently that some of the delays were because they had added some extra functionality to it?


----------



## weaknees

TiVo, at least, claims it'll have Universal Swivel Search.


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## weaknees

Actually, and here:

http://support.directv.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/77

They say it'll be able to stream, so at the very least there will be some type of network connectivity, which isn't part of standard HR10-250s.


----------



## BrettStah

litzdog911 said:


> My point was that we only know that the new HD Tivo is essentially an HR10-250 that supports MPEG4 HD channels. It might not have ANY new features compared to the old HR10-250. We just don't know yet.


And that's why I started that post with "I'm waiting to find out".


----------



## Cudahy

Different strokes for...
Apart from preferring the overall search engine, etc. the main reason I'm going to get the new Tivo when it comes up is being able to do an alphabetical movie search which for some unfathomable reason has never been available to Directv dvr's.


----------



## atc363

The current Tivo Premiere XL used by cable companies can do the following. The question is which of these functions, if any, can the DirectvTivo being tested perform?

The comparison TiVo Premiere XL: 

Records live TV in HD	
Enjoys advanced DVR features	
Searchs across TV, cable DVR, & web	
Streams movies from Netflix 
Obtains current hit shows & classic series from Hulu Plus	
Has On-demand movie services	
Supports full 1080p resolution	
THX certified	
Accesses streaming music services	
Listen to cable music channels	
Plays your PC/Mac music library	
Accesses the Web
Watch YouTube videos on your TV	
Accesses web-based photo services	
Online/mobile scheduling of recordings 

So just how primitive or advanced is the DirectvTivo dvr going to be in comparison?


----------



## CuriousMark

atc363 said:


> The current Tivo Premiere XL used by cable companies can do the following. The question is which of these functions, if any, can the DirectvTivo being tested perform?
> 
> The comparison TiVo Premiere XL:
> 
> Records live TV in HD
> Enjoys advanced DVR features
> Searches across TV, cable DVR, & web
> Streams movies from Netflix
> Obtains current hit shows & classic series from Hulu Plus
> Has On-demand movie services
> Supports full 1080p resolution
> THX certified
> Accesses streaming music services
> Listen to cable music channels
> Plays your PC/Mac music library
> Accesses the Web
> Watch YouTube™ videos on your TV
> Accesses web-based photo services
> Online/mobile scheduling of recordings
> 
> So just how primitive or advanced is the DirectvTivo dvr going to be in comparison?


Here is my best guess based on reading the various threads:

Records live TV in HD	
Searches across TV and DirecTV Cinema Plus
Has On-demand movie services (DirecTV Cinema Plus)	
Supports full 1080p resolution 
Listen to Satellite music channels	
Plays your PC/Mac music library (maybe) 
Online/mobile scheduling of recordings


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## davezatz

Based on what we think we know, it's not going to be the best TiVo nor will it be the best DirecTV DVR. But it may meet the needs of those who prefer the TiVo UI on DirecTV. OR, perhaps the additional delays will allow time to make it a much more compelling solution. I'm hoping for the latter.


----------



## CuriousMark

davezatz said:


> Based on what we think we know, it's not going to be the best TiVo nor will it be the best DirecTV DVR. But it may meet the needs of those who prefer the TiVo UI on DirecTV. OR, perhaps the additional delays will allow time to make it a much more compelling solution. I'm hoping for the latter.


I really am hoping they add compelling features too. I have DirecTV, but I keep my S2 around for features that I like which the DirecTV receiver and DVR can't do or do poorly (such as TiVoToGo or Music and Photos).


----------



## stevel

Of the list you provide, today's DirecTV DVRs can do everything except Hulu and "cable music channels" (DirecTV has its own music channels). I don't think the Premiere can do all of that list either, some of which assumes cable TV service, nor is it THX certified, for whatever that's worth (not much.)


----------



## eddyj

stevel said:


> Of the list you provide, today's DirecTV DVRs can do everything except Hulu and "cable music channels" (DirecTV has its own music channels). I don't think the Premiere can do all of that list either, some of which assumes cable TV service, nor is it THX certified, for whatever that's worth (not much.)


You can stream Netflix?


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## CuriousMark

stevel said:


> Of the list you provide, today's DirecTV DVRs can do everything except Hulu and "cable music channels" (DirecTV has its own music channels). I don't think the Premiere can do all of that list either, some of which assumes cable TV service, nor is it THX certified, for whatever that's worth (not much.)


Well here is my equally worthless estimation of what the DirecTV HR24 can do:

Records live TV in HD 
Enjoys some advanced DVR features 
Searchs across TV, DirecTV Cinema Plus (VOD) & some YouTube 
Has On-demand movie services 
Supports full 1080p resolution 
Listen to Satellite music channels 
Plays your PC/Mac music library
Watch some YouTube™ videos on your TV 
Online/mobile scheduling of recordings

Some of the above items are not as easy to use as they are on a standalone TiVo DVR, but they are there. For instance the only access to youtube is via search which is in a submenu. Playing music and photos from your PC depends on having a DLNA server on the PC and in my experience it is slow and clunky in comparison with using TiVo Desktop to do the same on a series 2 TiVo DVR.

Still and clearly this list is closer to the Premiere than what we expect the upcoming DirecTV DVR with TiVo service to have.


----------



## bigpuma

eddyj said:


> You can stream Netflix?


Yes, if you network you DVR and run Play On on a pc.


----------



## CuriousMark

bigpuma said:


> Yes, if you network you DVR and run Play On on a pc.


Not the free version though. And it has the DLNA interface to play on. That is why I left it out of the list, it is not a native feature of the DVR as it is with the TiVo Premiere.


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## stevel

You can stream Hulu using PlayOn too. And Amazon Prime Free streaming, which the TiVo cannot do, plus many more. The cost of PlayOn is less than the incremental cost of six months of TiVo service.


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## davezatz

stevel said:


> You can stream Hulu using PlayOn too. And Amazon Prime Free streaming, which the TiVo cannot do, plus many more. The cost of PlayOn is less than the incremental cost of six months of TiVo service.


Eh, PlayOn is a SD hack and requires a continually running Windows PC.


----------



## CuriousMark

I thought we were listing native features of the DVR. If we start including PC software, then the whole HME/HME ecosystem of programs for stand alone TiVo DVRs would also need to be added. At least pyTivo does HD.


----------



## atc363

Well perhaps some bad news actually. It had been noted at one of the investor boards, that an announcement is due to come out on or about July 6 announcing a Directv Tivo HD DVR unit. However, the problem is when you call Directv about same, they have absolutely no information that anything of this kind is in the works.

This reminds me in reverse regarding what happened in April 2010. About a month before the expected three judge Tivo Dish court decision was to come out, I called Directv and they said yes within four weeks a fancy HD Tivo is coming out. But the Court in May 2010 punted on the question of Tivo's patent rights, and the new alleged Directv HDTivo never materialized. Since then of course Tivo's rights have been clarified under a twelve judge court decision this year.

So the question is -- if a new HD Tivo is really coming out in four days, why don't the customer reps who answer the phone at Directv to accept orders for equipment have any idea this going to happen?


----------



## innocentfreak

An announcement doesn't mean it will be available that day. They coul just be officially announcing it including features and price etc.


----------



## jonbig

atc363 said:


> So the question is -- if a new HD Tivo is really coming out in four days, why don't the customer reps who answer the phone at Directv to accept orders for equipment have any idea this going to happen?


Actually, you hardly need to suppose bad news. Both DirecTv and TiVo are publicly traded companies. If there is a formal announcement scheduled for the 6th, then telling the customer reps about it would risk leaking news (for good or for bad) that would materially affect earnings. That's a *big* no-no and would get either or both companies in major trouble with the SEC.

So there is *very* good business and regulatory reasons that we won't hear much reliable news until a format announcement is made.


----------



## schalliol

Did anything happen on July 6th?


----------



## schalliol

Was that to me? I didn't see any announcements on July 6th, but I hear there was supposed to be and perhaps people saw them.


----------



## atc363

It has been posted elsewhere that Tivo's contract with Directv allows Directv to opt out of the requirement to provide a Tivo DVR to its customers, when Tivo is bought out by another company. Since there is high speculation right now about a buyout, perhaps Directv is biding its time to see whether Tivo gets bought?


----------



## litzdog911

atc363 said:


> It has been posted elsewhere that Tivo's contract with Directv allows Directv to opt out of the requirement to provide a Tivo DVR to its customers, when Tivo is bought out by another company. Since there is high speculation right now about a buyout, perhaps Directv is biding its time to see whether Tivo gets bought?


Doubtful. See the discussion here. 
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=194350


----------



## I WANT MORE

http://hd.engadget.com/2011/07/14/new-directivo-launch-may-not-come-until-later-this-year/


----------



## drmanny3

I need some help.
I had three of these units (hr10-250) at my parents home. Recently two of them began to faulter. One would have the sound cut out for a bit then come back. The other unit would just not boot up properly. I tried to purchase some used ones. The first one came with no card and Directv indicated that I would need to order a card. Did that but then the unit would not read the card or any other card. So the guy took it back. The more recent one I bought would not power up and gave the green screen. I took a hard drive out of one of my broken units and then it powered up but would not read any cards put in. Direct tv said that since it would not read a card, and showing that a card was not present that ordering a specific card for this unit was a waste of time. Any thoughts on how I can get past the card read issue? By the way this guy who told me it worked will not respond to my requests to return. Oh well.
Regards,
Manny


----------



## Wil

drmanny3 said:


> I had three of these units (hr10-250) at my parents home. Recently two of them began to faulter.


Not reading the cards may simply be a mis-match. A good CSR can help work that out, but it's hit or miss and the procedure is hard to describe in a message. But the card readers are fragile and do break, and are virtually impossible to repair. Have to be replaced.

One thing that helps with these old Hr10-250s not booting (only once every few dozen times but worth trying if all else fails) is to take out the battery for a few minutes, turn on, turn off and then on again with the battery back in. Actually I just slip the edge of an index card between the upper contact and the battery to interrupt contact.

I have also sent you a PM.


----------



## drmanny3

Wil said:


> Not reading the cards may simply be a mis-match. A good CSR can help work that out, but it's hit or miss and the procedure is hard to describe in a message. But the card readers are fragile and do break, and are virtually impossible to repair. Have to be replaced.
> 
> One thing that helps with these old Hr10-250s not booting (only once every few dozen times but worth trying if all else fails) is to take out the battery for a few minutes, turn on, turn off and then on again with the battery back in. Actually I just slip the edge of an index card between the upper contact and the battery to interrupt contact.
> 
> I have also sent you a PM.


I tried to respond but do not have enough posts yet to qualify. My email is [email protected]


----------



## drmanny3

Looks like this may finally happen in Oct as previously suggested.
Manny


----------



## Wil

drmanny3 said:


> Looks like this may finally happen in Oct as previously suggested.


If the new Tivo simply has the functionality of the old HR10-250 plus mpeg4 recording for the hidef channels, that's all I really want, so I'll probably get one. I will be SOOOO glad to get rid of this HR20 clunker.

But to be as good as the HR10-250 it will have to be capable of getting OTA locals (through the AM21). We'll see

If it's hackable like the HR10-250 so you can move the files around on your own, that would be wonderful, but seems almost certain it won't be.


----------



## BrettStah

Wil said:


> If the new Tivo simply has the functionality of the old HR10-250 plus mpeg4 recording for the hidef channels, that's all I really want, so I'll probably get one. I will be SOOOO glad to get rid of this HR20 clunker.
> 
> But to be as good as the HR10-250 it will have to be capable of getting OTA locals (through the AM21). We'll see
> 
> If it's hackable like the HR10-250 so you can move the files around on your own, that would be wonderful, but seems almost certain it won't be.


The newest HR models are pretty peppy, for what it's worth


----------



## Wil

BrettStah said:


> The newest HR models are pretty peppy, for what it's worth


I was in a position of being able to get whatever I wanted and was advised by my sources that the HR20-700 was better than the succeeding models. Also I don't like the DirecTV-processed locals and the HR20 was the only model with an OTA tuner (the AM21 seemed like an awkward complication to me at the time; but I later learned it's pretty decent).

Anyway it's not the pep that's the issue; it's the 1980s-style software (shared by all DirecTV models), kludged together ham-handedly by designers who seemingly think GUI is a silly fad, and customers really should be forced to use the c: prompt.


----------



## litzdog911

Wil said:


> .... it's the 1980s-style software (shared by all DirecTV models), kludged together ham-handedly by designers who seemingly think GUI is a silly fad, and customers really should be forced to use the c: prompt.


Wait 'til you see the new HiDef GUI!


----------



## Wil

litzdog911 said:


> Wait 'til you see the new HiDef GUI!


I certainly hope for improvement from DirecTV because I like their sports content.

Of course their last century's human engineering, even in HiDef, would still be ancient history: I shudder at the thought of their using HiDef simply to force more un-natural and even longer and more obtuse menus on the screen. But I'm always hopeful that incompetents can improve themselves, or be replaced with better. Perhaps that has happened at DirecTV.


----------



## litzdog911

Wil said:


> I certainly hope for improvement from DirecTV because I like their sports content.
> 
> Of course their last century's human engineering, even in HiDef, would still be ancient history: I shudder at the thought of their using HiDef simply to force more un-natural and even longer and more obtuse menus on the screen. But I'm always hopeful that incompetents can improve themselves, or be replaced with better. Perhaps that has happened at DirecTV.


The new HD GUI is actually much snappier.


----------



## BrettStah

I really hope that a new and improved guide is forthcoming - I saw the HDGUI screenshots that were posted in the CE thread at satelliteguys.us and it had the same 1.5 hour view of 6 channels. I can stand 30+ feet away from my tv and still clearly read the current guide, so they will hopefully offer a higher density view that uses smaller fonts to be able to show us at least 3 hours at a time, for hopefully 10-12 channels.


----------



## Adam1115

Wil said:


> I was in a position of being able to get whatever I wanted and was advised by my sources that the HR20-700 was better than the succeeding models. Also I don't like the DirecTV-processed locals and the HR20 was the only model with an OTA tuner (the AM21 seemed like an awkward complication to me at the time; but I later learned it's pretty decent).
> 
> Anyway it's not the pep that's the issue; it's the 1980s-style software (shared by all DirecTV models), kludged together ham-handedly by designers who seemingly think GUI is a silly fad, and customers really should be forced to use the c: prompt.


When he said 'newest HR' he probably meant HR24 which is WAY faster than the slow HR20...

:shrug: I dunno that the DirecTV gui is worse than the TiVo cartoon interface. I do miss suggestions and kidzone...


----------



## stopright

BrettStah said:


> I really hope that a new and improved guide is forthcoming - I saw the HDGUI screenshots that were posted in the CE thread at satelliteguys.us and it had the same 1.5 hour view of 6 channels. I can stand 30+ feet away from my tv and still clearly read the current guide, so they will hopefully offer a higher density view that uses smaller fonts to be able to show us at least 3 hours at a time, for hopefully 10-12 channels.


I have heard rumors about a new guide, but nothing substantial or with any proof. I really like the idea of them adding a few features, potentially even a social tab. Rumor was that they were going to distribute users a how to DVD, but I haven't heard much. I was on the phone recently with a dvd burning and replication representative and she was unaware of any changes, but I kind of forgot that Tivo was a third party piece of hardware. I guess I will have to wait and find out.


----------



## Rainy Dave

stopright said:


> I have heard rumors about a new guide, but nothing substantial or with any proof...


I've seen screenshots of the new guide. I have to say that I like it.


----------



## BrettStah

Rainy Dave said:


> I've seen screenshots of the new guide. I have to say that I like it.


Can you describe it? How many hours at a time does it show, and how many channels?


----------



## Rainy Dave

BrettStah said:


> Can you describe it? How many hours at a time does it show, and how many channels?


The shots I've seen have 6 channels, 1.5 hours with 5 lines (including channel and show time) where of data for the highlighted show.
PIG (Picture in Guide is in the upper left hand spot.


----------



## BrettStah

Rainy Dave said:


> The shots I've seen have 6 channels, 1.5 hours with 5 lines (including channel and show time) where of data for the highlighted show.
> PIG (Picture in Guide is in the upper left hand spot.


So that is the same screenshot I've seen, which is basically a new GUI on top of the same old 15-year-old guide we've had. In other words, I want a truly new guide that takes advantage of the higher resolution and larger average TV sizes - basically I think it is feasible to have about double the hours seen at a time (from 1.5 to 3), and an increase in the number of channels seen at a time from 6 to 10-12.


----------



## jonbig

I've been waiting for the new HD DirecTiVos for years now, but my HDVR2s are slowly becoming less reliable (many disk swaps, power supply replacements and tuner repairs).

I finally got my dream HD home theater setup and SD looks pretty crappy on it.

Now that the new TiVo Premiere Elite is almost on the market, there's a hard deadline for DirecTV to put up or I'm going to have to go to cable.


----------



## weaknees

jonbig said:


> I've been waiting for the new HD DirecTiVos for years now, but my HDVR2s are slowly becoming less reliable (many disk swaps, power supply replacements and tuner repairs).
> 
> I finally got my dream HD home theater setup and SD looks pretty crappy on it.
> 
> Now that the new TiVo Premiere Elite is almost on the market, there's a hard deadline for DirecTV to put up or I'm going to have to go to cable.


We think the Premieres are great units, but I'm not really sure what the Elite specifically offers to have you draw a line in the sand. No DirecTV DVR at this point has four tuners . . .


----------



## jonbig

weaknees said:


> We think the Premieres are great units, but I'm not really sure what the Elite specifically offers to have you draw a line in the sand. No DirecTV DVR at this point has four tuners . . .


I need at least three tuners for what I record, so the Elite makes buying a standalone TiVo more cost effective to get what I need:

2 Premiere XL with lifetime service = $798 x 2 = $1594
1 Premiere Elite with lifetime service = $998


----------



## litzdog911

weaknees said:


> .... No DirecTV DVR at this point has four tuners . . .


The upcoming HR34 will have five tuners.


----------



## rumpleteazer

litzdog911 said:


> The upcoming HR34 will have five tuners.


I'm not up to date on SWM and networking. In order to make use of the 5 tuners will I have to have more than 2 cables run to the HR34?

I have all of the cables from the satellite running into my basement and then two lines out to each of my 4 devices from there.


----------



## stevel

One cable for the HR34. SWM required.


----------



## mercurial

stevel said:


> One cable for the HR34. SWM required.


Right but if you have the standard SWM8 they provide, you can't have more than 3 other tuners active (mix of other DVRs and standard recievers, I think DECAs count to but I'm not certain).


----------



## ayrton911

Do we know if DirecTV TiVo will be able to support 3D channels?

I would love to return to a TiVo interface, but I want 3D capability.


----------



## bearbig

I have a question regarding all of the newer DTV DVR's. Do they allow you to "save to VCR" as my old TIVO unit does? I use this feature to save to DVD . 
I really really really want a new DTV TIVO unit.

Thanks


----------



## stevel

ayrton911 said:


> Do we know if DirecTV TiVo will be able to support 3D channels?
> 
> I would love to return to a TiVo interface, but I want 3D capability.


The word from DBStalk is that the new DTiVo will not support 3D at launch. The hardware is capable of it so possibly later. I would not want to bet on it.


----------



## litzdog911

bearbig said:


> I have a question regarding all of the newer DTV DVR's. Do they allow you to "save to VCR" as my old TIVO unit does? I use this feature to save to DVD .
> I really really really want a new DTV TIVO unit.
> 
> Thanks


Tivo's "save to VCR" feature simply disabled most of the remote control commands to avoid accidentally bringing up menus while dubbing from the Tivo to your VCR. You can also dub your recordings from the newer DirecTV DVRs to your VCR or DVD Recorder. You just have to be careful with the remote to avoid bringing up unwanted menu displays while dubbing.


----------



## drmanny3

You may recall from several of my posts that I am trying to get three working Hr10-250 units for my parents. We had at one time three units but two of them bit the dust. I have purchased about 4 additional units getting 1 or 1 1/2 good units out of all of them. Currently one unit that works correctly is going through a period where it constantly reboots. I recall several months ago that there was a problem and then a fix was developed and deployed by Direct TV and Tivo. I have since put this unit into service. Prior to that I had not been used for at least 2 years. The software is 6.3 Any ideas on what I can do to stop the reboot? Otherwise it works just find.

Unit two: I initially put a card in by going through the process of ordering it from Direct TV. It worked for a while and then began to freeze for a second then work again. Then the card stopped being read as current. Direct TV sent out another card and now there is no longer a message saying the card is not current. However the picture will still break up every few seconds to a minute. It then seems to catch up and everything works again. I tried to see if it was one of the tuners. So I started to record one station where the problem occurred. I then tried to watch another channel thinking this would require the other tuner. Still no change. There are some programs that were recorded by the previous owner. They play back without a problem. Any ideas? The software is 6.4 on this one.

Manny


----------



## magcon

So its October............ Is this going to happen this month ? Been waiting so long. Really tired of DTV DVR about to go elsewhere, but really want to see this new dtv/tivo but I dont think it will ever see the light of day
You experts let me know whats up


----------



## litzdog911

magcon said:


> So its October............ Is this going to happen this month ? Been waiting so long. Really tired of DTV DVR about to go elsewhere, but really want to see this new dtv/tivo but I dont think it will ever see the light of day
> You experts let me know whats up


No new news. This year? We'll see.


----------



## unitron

drmanny3 said:


> You may recall from several of my posts that I am trying to get three working Hr10-250 units for my parents. We had at one time three units but two of them bit the dust. I have purchased about 4 additional units getting 1 or 1 1/2 good units out of all of them. Currently one unit that works correctly is going through a period where it constantly reboots. I recall several months ago that there was a problem and then a fix was developed and deployed by Direct TV and Tivo. I have since put this unit into service. Prior to that I had not been used for at least 2 years. The software is 6.3 Any ideas on what I can do to stop the reboot? Otherwise it works just find.
> 
> Unit two: I initially put a card in by going through the process of ordering it from Direct TV. It worked for a while and then began to freeze for a second then work again. Then the card stopped being read as current. Direct TV sent out another card and now there is no longer a message saying the card is not current. However the picture will still break up every few seconds to a minute. It then seems to catch up and everything works again. I tried to see if it was one of the tuners. So I started to record one station where the problem occurred. I then tried to watch another channel thinking this would require the other tuner. Still no change. There are some programs that were recorded by the previous owner. They play back without a problem. Any ideas? The software is 6.4 on this one.
> 
> Manny


Have you closely inspected the power supplies for "capacitor disease"?


----------



## drmanny3

Is this a common issue with the hr10-250? Are there certain capacitors to check?
Manny


----------



## puffdaddy

litzdog911 said:


> You can add the AM21 Off-Air Tuner Accessory to your HD DVR to provide integrated dual tuner off-air channels using an OTA antenna. It connects to the HD DVR's USB port. You can order via your DirecTV.com account for ~$50.


Looks like tivo has developed support for this on the new DirecTiVo: /tvbin/HpkAtscUsbDaemon


----------



## Tigerdog1

Figured.


----------



## unitron

drmanny3 said:


> Is this a common issue with the hr10-250? Are there certain capacitors to check?
> Manny


It's a common issue with a lot of consumer electronics (TiVo power supplies, LCD computer monitors and televisions, computer motherboards, and other stuff), and has been since the late '90s.

Go look at this

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Repair-a-Hughes-HDVR2-Tivo-Power-Supply/

then go to badcaps.net to learn how to look for visual signs of capacitor disease.

lcdalternatives also has good info on the problem.

Generally the large capacitors on the side of the power supply with the connector for the cable that goes to the motherboard are the likely suspects.

The big capacitor on the AC input side that has a sticker listing the output voltages seems to come from a higher quality source, I've never read of anyone having to replace it.


----------



## wpshell

Haven't been around much lately due to my waning interest in the new Tivo. I just noticed this at Solid Signal. Don't know if it's old news or not. Thought I'd put it up just in case.
After all the waiting this thing looks pretty darn lame.
I think I may wait for an HR34.
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=THR22&d=DIRECTV-TiVO-THR22-High-Definition-MPEG-4-HD-DVR-(THR-22)&tab=reviews


----------



## tarman

wpshell said:


> Haven't been around much lately due to my waning interest in the new Tivo. I just noticed this at Solid Signal. Don't know if it's old news or not. Thought I'd put it up just in case.
> After all the waiting this thing looks pretty darn lame.
> I think I may wait for an HR34.
> http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=THR22&d=DIRECTV-TiVO-THR22-High-Definition-MPEG-4-HD-DVR-(THR-22)&tab=reviews


DIRECTV TiVO THR22 High Definition MPEG-4 HD-DVR (THR-22)
View other DIRECTV products
Model: THR22
Availability: Currently Not Available


----------



## litzdog911

wpshell said:


> Haven't been around much lately due to my waning interest in the new Tivo. I just noticed this at Solid Signal. Don't know if it's old news or not. Thought I'd put it up just in case.
> After all the waiting this thing looks pretty darn lame.
> I think I may wait for an HR34.
> http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=THR22&d=DIRECTV-TiVO-THR22-High-Definition-MPEG-4-HD-DVR-(THR-22)&tab=reviews


Old news. It's been on their site for a couple of months now.


----------



## Davisadm

I've been a DTV customer for many years.

I, like others have been waiting over 3 years for the new DirecTV/TiVo.

Called CS again today asking when, finally, will the new TiVo be out which has been promised for over 3 years. Got the same standard answer "We don't work with TiVo anymore, but have great DVRs available". I replied that "Yes, you are working with TiVo, I want to know when the THR-22 will be available?" After a bit of silence, he replied that the THR-22 is in the system as of 11/3, will be $199 and an additional $5 per month, but the release date is not yet listed. He seemed very surprised that there will be a TiVo! Then he said if you do a search on DTVs web site for TiVo, you will find the info, stating release in 2011.

//support.directv.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/77/

Nothing concrete on this page. It says "We are optimistic that the new TiVo HD DVR from DIRECTV will be available for purchase in calendar year 2011".
I will believe it when it actually happens. 

I have given myself a deadline till the end of the year. If nothing is announced, I'm canceling service, getting the Premiere Elite, and going with cable. And if the new unit does not have all the features available with the HR**s, as has been written about in length, I probably will go with cable anyway.


----------



## innocentfreak

TiVo's earnings press release today mentions the DirecTiVo. According to what DTV has told TiVo, it will be limited markets for fieldtrials/testing in December with an early rollout in 2012.


----------



## farmdwg

I'll believe it when I see it. This could be yet another delay. They've been promising this thing for over 2 years.


----------



## innocentfreak

farmdwg said:


> I'll believe it when I see it. This could be yet another delay. They've been promising this thing for over 2 years.


It is DirecTVs offering so as TiVo has said in the past it is up to them to announce when it is coming.


----------



## BrettStah




----------



## DatacomGuy

I just got DTV and I'm miserable with this crap dvr setup. It's horrible.

I hope this comes soon. It's going to be a long two years.


----------



## litzdog911

DatacomGuy said:


> I just got DTV and I'm miserable with this crap dvr setup. It's horrible.
> 
> I hope this comes soon. It's going to be a long two years.


Welcome to TivoCommunity!

Feel free to start a new thread here with more information about your current DVR setup problems and maybe we can help.


----------



## unitron

BrettStah said:


>


Is that Carson's old producer?


----------



## unitron

litzdog911 said:


> Welcome to TivoCommunity!
> 
> Feel free to start a new thread here with more information about your current DVR setup problems and maybe we can help.


I think his current DVR problem is that for the time being he's stuck with the one from DirecTV.


----------



## Rainy Dave

unitron said:


> I think his current DVR problem is that for the time being he's stuck with the one from DirecTV.


Which for thousands of people isn't a problem.

I went from DirecTiVos to the DirecTV HR2xs. The only regret I have is that I held onto the DirecTiVos so long.

So maybe, just maybe, litzdog911 was offering to help.


----------



## BrettStah

unitron said:


> Is that Carson's old producer?


No, it's Howard Jarvis... he had a cameo role in the classic comedy _Airplane!_ - in the beginning of the movie, he's shown leaving the airport and hailing a taxi. He hops in just as the taxi driver gets out of the taxi (the driver turns out to be the main character of the movie, and he's trying to stop his long-time girlfriend from flying away after dumping him).

Well, the main character winds up needing to buy a ticket and getting onto the same flight as his girlfriend, so the dude in the taxi is still outside waiting in the taxi. The meter is running the whole time.

At the end of the movie, they show him still in the taxi, vowing to only give the taxi driver 20 more minutes to return.

So I posted that image of him because seeing this thread pop up, and seeing how long some people are waiting for this new DVR to finally ship, reminded me of that part of _Airplane!_... makes sense now? 

Here's a youtube video that has all of Howard Jarvis' scenes spliced together:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP_m7BoYDBY[/media]


----------



## unitron

BrettStah said:


> No, it's Howard Jarvis... he had a cameo role in the classic comedy _Airplane!_ - in the beginning of the movie, he's shown leaving the airport and hailing a taxi. He hops in just as the taxi driver gets out of the taxi (the driver turns out to be the main character of the movie, and he's trying to stop his long-time girlfriend from flying away after dumping him).
> 
> Well, the main character winds up needing to buy a ticket and getting onto the same flight as his girlfriend, so the dude in the taxi is still outside waiting in the taxi. The meter is running the whole time.
> 
> At the end of the movie, they show him still in the taxi, vowing to only give the taxi driver 20 more minutes to return.
> 
> So I posted that image of him because seeing this thread pop up, and seeing how long some people are waiting for this new DVR to finally ship, reminded me of that part of _Airplane!_... makes sense now?
> 
> Here's a youtube video that has all of Howard Jarvis' scenes spliced together:
> 
> [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP_m7BoYDBY[/media]


It looked kind of like Freddie de Cordova, producer of the Tonight Show for years and years.

Unless (and it's not at all impossible) my memory ain't what I think it is.


----------



## fasTLane

unitron said:


> I think his current DVR problem is that for the time being he's stuck with the one from DirecTV.


That's it. :up:


----------



## jpcamaro70

DatacomGuy said:


> I just got DTV and I'm miserable with this crap dvr setup. It's horrible.
> 
> I hope this comes soon. It's going to be a long two years.


It's not too bad once you get to know it. I felt the same way when i went from old directivo to d10. But once you get used to it, it's not all that bad. And, consider the alternatives, DTV happens to have pretty good dvr's compared to others.

Better idea, play with someones cable sa-8300 and you'll think the HR2x is a powerhouse.


----------



## DatacomGuy

jpcamaro70 said:


> It's not too bad once you get to know it. I felt the same way when i went from old directivo to d10. But once you get used to it, it's not all that bad. And, consider the alternatives, DTV happens to have pretty good dvr's compared to others.
> 
> Better idea, play with someones cable sa-8300 and you'll think the HR2x is a powerhouse.


I'll have to verify the model # when I get home, for the one that I have.

However.. It is the slowest piece of crap i've ever used. The 7-10 second delay between the selection via remote and the actual execution on the device is enough to make me want to set it on fire.

And I don't understand why "on demand" stuff is only available on the main DVR and not the remote boxes, but this is quickly becoming a deal breaker for me also. I digress.

Very disappointed right now. I've had the 8300 and it was light years above the one I have now. I just left FIOS, and that DVR setup is, by miles, the best setup i've ever experienced and i'm really missing it right now.


----------



## fasTLane

Left FIOS? That and Tivo would be darn good IMO.


----------



## DatacomGuy

fasTLane said:


> Left FIOS? That and Tivo would be darn good IMO.


I had no choice.. moved from Florida to atlanta. Atlanta market is a complete monopoly.

Comcast or DTV.. And when it came to channel selection, DTV was far superior for the money. But they are both horrible.. and money wise, about the same give-or-take. There is AT&T U-Verse or whatever its called, but everyone I talked to urged me strongly to avoid it, so I never even looked much more in to it. No verizon in Georgia from what I can tell, ATT owns the FTTx world.

Same problem with broadband here. Two choices in MOST areas. Just so happens, my suburb doesn't get one of the options, so i'm forced to Comcast. $55 a month for standard broadband. Such a racket. Blown away at the way the utilities are setup here.


----------



## ncted

DatacomGuy said:


> I had no choice.. moved from Florida to atlanta. Atlanta market is a complete monopoly.
> 
> Comcast or DTV.. And when it came to channel selection, DTV was far superior for the money. But they are both horrible.. and money wise, about the same give-or-take. There is AT&T U-Verse or whatever its called, but everyone I talked to urged me strongly to avoid it, so I never even looked much more in to it. No verizon in Georgia from what I can tell, ATT owns the FTTx world.
> 
> Same problem with broadband here. Two choices in MOST areas. Just so happens, my suburb doesn't get one of the options, so i'm forced to Comcast. $55 a month for standard broadband. Such a racket. Blown away at the way the utilities are setup here.


If you just got a new install, you should have gotten the HR24 which shouldn't be too slow. If they gave you something earlier than that, I would complain. I got D* last year, and they gave me 2 HR24s. They're not perfect, but they're better than anything from Scientific Atlanta or Motorola. Still, I'd prefer a Tivo.

-Ted


----------



## DatacomGuy

ncted said:


> If you just got a new install, you should have gotten the HR24 which shouldn't be too slow. If they gave you something earlier than that, I would complain. I got D* last year, and they gave me 2 HR24s. They're not perfect, but they're better than anything from Scientific Atlanta or Motorola. Still, I'd prefer a Tivo.
> 
> -Ted


I have the HR23-700. Should I complain?


----------



## stevel

You can complain, but don't get your hopes up. There's no guarantee of a specific model - you get what the installer is handed at the depot.

That said, the new HDUI makes all the older HR2x models feel much faster.


----------



## litzdog911

DatacomGuy said:


> I'll have to verify the model # when I get home, for the one that I have.
> 
> However.. It is the slowest piece of crap i've ever used. The 7-10 second delay between the selection via remote and the actual execution on the device is enough to make me want to set it on fire.
> 
> And I don't understand why "on demand" stuff is only available on the main DVR and not the remote boxes, but this is quickly becoming a deal breaker for me also. I digress.
> 
> Very disappointed right now. I've had the 8300 and it was light years above the one I have now. I just left FIOS, and that DVR setup is, by miles, the best setup i've ever experienced and i'm really missing it right now.


You'll be happier with the speed once you get updated to the new HD user interface. In the mean time there are some tricks that can speed that up by a few seconds. Post back if you want those, or search the DirecTV Support Forum.

OnDemand is only downloadable on DVRs because a hard drive is required. But if you have Whole Home DVR service, then all of your other HD DVRs/Receivers can view those shows once they're downloaded on one of the HD DVRs.


----------



## mercurial

Is the HD UI rolling out? I noticed via Sling that my office DVR had gotten an update (the NP list was reset to newest first - why can't that stick over updates?) but obviously I couldn't tell if it was the new GUI (SB is on the S-video out). Or is it still just for folks doing the BE only?

So far as the model, if you go through a re-seller, you can get the exact equipment you want. When I switched back to DTV, I went the Robert at Value Electronics and got all HR24/H24's for our setup and a price within noise of what I could have done via DTV promotions.


----------



## eddyj

When is the HD interface getting rolled out?


----------



## litzdog911

It's rolling out now, but it's a very slow rollout, expected to take into January.


----------



## mercurial

BowBolotheord said:


> (And yes, its 100% admissible!)


100% admissible!?!? SOLD!


----------



## unitron

mercurial said:


> 100% admissible!?!? SOLD!


Are you sure they didn't mean submersible?


----------



## BlackBetty

http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=10979789


----------



## unitron

BlackBetty said:


> http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=10979789


I see they've got the pricing rigged to screw TiVo.


----------



## BrettStah

BlackBetty said:


> http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=10979789


Yikes...



> The TiVo® HD DVR will carry a $5 per month TiVo service fee, which is in addition to the $10 per month HD Access fee and the $7 per month DVR service fee.


----------



## tivoboy

Yeah, at this point in the worlds history I figure this is going to be a BUST. More money for LESS functionality? Does that make ANY sense? this is basically JUST and MPEG-4 H10-250. Fail.


----------



## ckelly33

Re: pricing...DANG! Am I understanding this? You mean the TiVo is $22 a month HIGHER than the D*TV HD DVR - or does the D*TV version also require the $17/month for the HD Access and DVR fee (making the TiVo only $5 more/month)?


----------



## BrettStah

ckelly33 said:


> Re: pricing...DANG! Am I understanding this? You mean the TiVo is $22 a month HIGHER than the D*TV HD DVR - or does the D*TV version also require the $17/month for the HD Access and DVR fee (making the TiVo only $5 more/month)?


The new Tivo will be $5 more per month.


----------



## unitron

Do you buy this thing or rent it from DirecTV?

Is that $7 per month basically a bribe to DirecTV to let you use a DVR of any sort?

Is that $5 to TiVo to use their software, but you pay DirecTV something else to get them to get the listings from Tribune Media Services and send them on to you?


----------



## Rainy Dave

But it has the "beloved sound effects" and the peanut remote. That's gotta be worth $5/month to some people.

I just happen to not be in that group.


----------



## BrettStah

Rainy Dave said:


> But it has the "beloved sound effects" and the peanut remote. That's gotta be worth $5/month to some people.
> 
> I just happen to not be in that group.


You know, the remote would actually be a pretty big deal for us - we used to love the peanut remote. But our system got to be too complex, so we wound up switching to a Harmony remote - somewhat peanut-shaped, with tons of features. It took about a week to get used to it and now it's all we use. The rare times that I have to use the DirecTV remote makes me very thankful we don't have to use it on a daily basis - it sucks!

The sound effects on the HR10-250 never worked via the digital optical audio connection, so I wonder if they'll work on the new DirecTivo. The HR2x DVRs also have sound effects, so I guess it's technologically possible.


----------



## litzdog911

Rainy Dave said:


> But it has the "beloved sound effects" and the peanut remote. That's gotta be worth $5/month to some people.
> 
> .....


Supposedly the new Tivo peanut remote will also work with the DirecTV HD DVRs.


----------



## litzdog911

unitron said:


> Do you buy this thing or rent it from DirecTV?
> 
> Is that $7 per month basically a bribe to DirecTV to let you use a DVR of any sort?
> 
> Is that $5 to TiVo to use their software, but you pay DirecTV something else to get them to get the listings from Tribune Media Services and send them on to you?


Pretty sure it's a lease arrangement, not owned.

$7/mo applies for as many DVRs as you want on your account, not per DVR.

$5/mo Tivo fee is probably an opportunistic adder, or perhaps part of the contract with Tivo.


----------



## Budget_HT

BrettStah said:


> You know, the remote would actually be a pretty big deal for us - we used to love the peanut remote. But our system got to be too complex, so we wound up switching to a Harmony remote - somewhat peanut-shaped, with tons of features. It took about a week to get used to it and now it's all we use. The rare times that I have to use the DirecTV remote makes me very thankful we don't have to use it on a daily basis - it sucks!
> 
> The sound effects on the HR10-250 never worked via the digital optical audio connection, so I wonder if they'll work on the new DirecTivo. The HR2x DVRs also have sound effects, so I guess it's technologically possible.


Initially, the HR10-250 sound effects did not work over the digital audio connection. A later enhancement made them work over the optical and HDMI audio paths. We still use them that way.


----------



## sloan

http://www.engadget.com/2011/12/06/directvs-tivo-ready-to-return-december-8th-in-a-few-markets/

I know, it's old news. I'm just excited. I finally retired 2 Phillips 708's (Standard Def) units (replaced with HR-34) because of TV upgrades. 
I've made peace with the directv hd-dvr's. But I love and miss the Tivo/Directv units.










Unfortunately, I'm not in one of these markets:
:<

Chicago IL
Denver CO
Los Angeles CA
New York NY
Philadelphia PA
Phoenix AZ
Sacramento CA
San Francisco CA
Seattle WA
Washington DC


----------



## bigpuma

I figured at this point they would just drop the additional fee for TiVo. I can't believe they are going to charge an additional $5/month for a device that is has fewer features. It will be interesting to see how many people go for it.


----------



## cfryer

I am seriously considering this as a replacement for my Series 3. Those of you using Directv now forget that Comcast is almost always more expensive for the same services as Directv. Even with the $5 extra, it might be less expensive for those of us on Comcast.


----------



## sloan

cfryer said:


> I am seriously considering this as a replacement for my Series 3. Those of you using Directv now forget that Comcast is almost always more expensive for the same services as Directv. Even with the $5 extra, it might be less expensive for those of us on Comcast.


Depending on where you live:

1. Hook up an antenna to your Series3. 
2. And go for the directv/tivo unit.
Then enjoy the best of both worlds. 
Free OTA/HD for most network shows. 
Directv for everything else.

I have this antenna. I'm under 40 miles to the antenna towers though.
http://www.gomohu.com/
Check Amazon for reviews.

I have this setup.
I have a TivoHD with antenna only.
And a directv HR-XX.
Netflix comes in on the TivoHD during the summer months. (I subscribe during the summer only, when there are less new shows running).


----------



## sloan

bigpuma said:


> I figured at this point they would just drop the additional fee for TiVo. I can't believe they are going to charge an additional $5/month for a device that is has fewer features. It will be interesting to see how many people go for it.





bigpuma said:


> for a device that is has fewer features


Some people just love Tivo. And miss their HR-250's.

I'm ok with the price, because I know directv has to pay Tivo a service fee per receiver, and their passing the costs to the customer. I'll take that over not having a Tivo option.

And there is now alot of CSR training that has to happen to support 2 different family of devices (HR-xx vs THR-xx).


----------



## Cudahy

So this Wednesday(December 8th) I can call DirecTV and get the new Tivo!
It's about time.


----------



## HiDefGator

unitron said:


> Do you buy this thing or rent it from DirecTV?
> 
> Is that $7 per month basically a bribe to DirecTV to let you use a DVR of any sort?
> 
> Is that $5 to TiVo to use their software, but you pay DirecTV something else to get them to get the listings from Tribune Media Services and send them on to you?


All Directv boxes pay the $7 per month charge. DVR, non-DVR, doesn't matter. The only difference with this box is there is an additional $5 Tivo fee. Directv may let Tivo sell DVR's but they are not going to take any less for themselves if you do chose the Tivo.


----------



## sloan

Cudahy said:


> So this Wednesday(December 8th) I can call DirecTV and get the new Tivo!
> It's about time.


Only certain markets to start:

Chicago IL
Denver CO
Los Angeles CA
New York NY
Philadelphia PA
Phoenix AZ
Sacramento CA
San Francisco CA
Seattle WA
Washington DC

I don't think there is a timeline for other markets.
It's kinda a big experiment right now.


----------



## Lord Vader

Many here are going to be very disappointed when they find out how plain and featureless this thing really is.


----------



## stevel

HiDefGator said:


> All Directv boxes pay the $7 per month charge. DVR, non-DVR, doesn't matter.


Not so. The $7 charge per account is to enable DVR service on all DVRs on that account. If you don't have any DVRs, no $7 charge.


----------



## sloan

stevel said:


> Not so. The $7 charge per account is to enable DVR service on all DVRs on that account. If you don't have any DVRs, no $7 charge.


Correct.

The $7 DVR fee is "per account", not per receiver.
So if you have 1 or 2 or 6 DVR's on your account, you pay $7.

The $10 HD fee is "per account". If you lease a HD receiver, or HD-DVR, you must pay the fee. I have no idea what happens if you lease a HD-DVR, then say "I don't want HD anymore", if they swap out your HD receivers or SD receivers or just let you use the HD receivers (in SD mode).

The $5 Tivo fee is "per account" as well I believe. And not per machine.

If you have a directv (non tivo) HD-DVR (HR-xx), then you're most likely already paying the $17 ($7 + $10) already.

So at the end of the day, a Directv/Tivo will add $5 to your monthly bill "per account".


----------



## pmyers

Just tell me that I can have more than 50 "season passes" and I'll throw my DirecTV dvr in the trash right now and get the new Tivo unit!


----------



## HiDefGator

stevel said:


> Not so. The $7 charge per account is to enable DVR service on all DVRs on that account. If you don't have any DVRs, no $7 charge.


OK. But there is also a mirroring fee right? That is per box. So the new Tivco would have the mirroring fee plus the tivo fee. Unless it was the first and only box.


----------



## Wil

HiDefGator said:


> OK. But there is also a mirroring fee right? That is per box. So the new Tivco would have the mirroring fee plus the tivo fee. Unless it was the first and only box.


The point is the differential, the increment. It's $5, can't be stretched.


----------



## sluciani

HiDefGator said:


> OK. But there is also a mirroring fee right? That is per box. So the new Tivco would have the mirroring fee plus the tivo fee. Unless it was the first and only box.


That's my understanding as well.


sloan said:


> So at the end of the day, a Directv/Tivo will add $5 to your monthly bill "per account".


So actually $5 + $6/month, if it's an additional box on the account.


----------



## sluciani

pmyers said:


> Just tell me that I can have more than 50 "season passes" and I'll throw my DirecTV dvr in the trash right now and get the new Tivo unit!


According to this site, you can have more than 50 SPs.

I'm guessing you're not a WHDVR customer now?


----------



## pmyers

sluciani said:


> According to this site, you can have more than 50 SPs.
> 
> I'm guessing you're not a WHDVR customer now?


well I don't know what WHDVR stands for so I would assume not. I just have the standard DirecTV DVR that's been around forever (that I'm not a big fan of).


----------



## pmyers

sluciani said:


> According to this site, you can have more than 50 SPs.
> 
> I'm guessing you're not a WHDVR customer now?


wow...didn't notice until I went to you link that it's going to cost me $199 to "upgrade" to this.

I don't think I hate what I have THAT much


----------



## eddyj

pmyers said:


> wow...didn't notice until I went to you link that it's going to cost me $199 to "upgrade" to this.
> 
> I don't think I hate what I have THAT much


I have called a couple of times and the "deal" they have offered makes it only $150.  I don't want it that much either.


----------



## litzdog911

Cudahy said:


> So this Wednesday(December 8th) I can call DirecTV and get the new Tivo!
> It's about time.


Or via an authorized dealer, like Solid Signal and Value Electronics. $399.


----------



## HiDefGator

pmyers said:


> wow...didn't notice until I went to you link that it's going to cost me $199 to "upgrade" to this.
> 
> I don't think I hate what I have THAT much


That is the same lease charge for any new DVR from Directv. If you have been with them for some time you may be offered a better deal than that if you call.


----------



## sloan

Where are all the people who were ready to burn directv to the ground when the HR10-250 (directv/tivo hd-dvr) was being phased out for the HR-20 (directv-non-tivo-hd-dvr) ?


----------



## Wil

sloan said:


> Where are all the people who were ready to burn directv to the ground when the HR10-250 (directv/tivo hd-dvr) was being phased out for the HR-20 (directv-non-tivo-hd-dvr) ?


<raises hand>

The DirecTivo in its day was a wonderful piece of entertainment hardware. It was a good mix. Had progress continued normally from the HR10-250 without Murdoch's crapping where he ate, we would have had a better entertainment experience over the last several years and been in a better place today.

As it happened, though DirecTV has been successful, a substantial number of those who would be their customers today have gone elsewhere and neither the DirecTV nor the new Tivo/DirecTV DVRs are positioned to be long term factors in this space.


----------



## sloan

sluciani said:


> That's my understanding as well.So actually $5 + $6/month, if it's an additional box on the account.


Yes, but the mirroring fee applies whether you have a directv-non-tivo-box, or a direct-tivo-box.

So, at the end of the day, the difference between:
(whatever setup you had with a directv HD DVR setup) 
and a 
(directv-With-Tivo-setup hd-dvr) 
is still:
$5/month.
(( And the initial startup costs for the directv/tivo unit ))

If you ~already have a directv-non-tivo-hd-dvr, then it'll be an extra $199 (one time) to swap out your existing unit. (Assuming you are ~replacing your existing unit, not adding extra units to your account)

If you don't already have a directv-non-tivo-hd-dvr, then it is the same $199/machine (one time) cost to get any directv-hd-dvr (non-tivo or tivo capable). (Or if you are adding an extra box to your account, you'll have to pay this $199 one-time-fee for a non-tivo OR tivo-capable hd-dvr).

So practically, if your intention is to ~replace your existing directv-non-tivo-hd-dvr, then you'll be shelling out an extra $199 (before incentives). And that only makes sense if you really really love Tivo.

If you're somebody who has a directv account and who doesn't already have a hd-dvr and wants to get one, then you're basically choosing whether you will pay an extra $5/month for the tivo experience.


----------



## sloan

Wil said:


> <raises hand>
> 
> The DirecTivo in its day was a wonderful piece of entertainment hardware. It was a good mix. Had progress continued normally from the HR10-250 without Murdoch's crapping where he ate, we would have had a better entertainment experience over the last several years and been in a better place today.
> 
> As it happened, though DirecTV has been successful, a substantial number of those who would be their customers today have gone elsewhere and neither the DirecTV nor the new Tivo/DirecTV DVRs are positioned to be long term factors in this space.


I agree. Just imagine how sweet the whole thing would be if Murdoch hadn't gotten uber-greedy and/or uber-stupid and kept the directv-tivo relationship in tact. 

Well, I hope the new directv/tivo relationship works. I was hoping for a $3/month tivo-fee.

My crapper is that I just got two HR34's (my Standard Def directv/tivo's gave up their ghosts when I got rid of my last 2 CRT TV's in the house), so any incentives to lower the $199 price are used up. 

I think if/when the time comes, I'm gonna have to preview a directv/hd/tivo at someone else house to see how much I like it and/or miss it.

I have a TivoHD hooked up to antenna only that scratches my Tivo itch when I have it.


----------



## unitron

stevel said:


> Not so. The $7 charge per account is to enable DVR service on all DVRs on that account. If you don't have any DVRs, no $7 charge.


So you have to pay DirecTV $7 per month for the privilege of using a DVR with their service no matter who supplies the DVR?


----------



## sloan

unitron said:


> So you have to pay DirecTV $7 per month for the privilege of using a DVR with their service no matter who supplies the DVR?


Yes. It is per account, not per receiver. So if you have one DVR, its $7/month. If you have 6 DVR's on your account, its $7/month.
It does not matter if it is directv-non-tivo-hd-dvr or directv-tivo-hd-dvr.


----------



## unitron

sloan said:


> Yes. It is per account, not per receiver. So if you have one DVR, its $7/month. If you have 6 DVR's on your account, its $7/month.
> It does not matter if it is directv-non-tivo-hd-dvr or directv-tivo-hd-dvr.


What does DirecTV provide or do for that extra $7 that they wouldn't have to otherwise?

In other words, how do they earn it?


----------



## BrettStah

unitron said:


> What does DirecTV provide or do for that extra $7 that they wouldn't have to otherwise?
> 
> In other words, how do they earn it?


Ask them.


----------



## sloan

unitron said:


> What does DirecTV provide or do for that extra $7 that they wouldn't have to otherwise?
> 
> In other words, how do they earn it?


You are not required to have a DVR (with DVR Service) on your account. You can have a standard receiver (either standard-resolution or hd-resolution) which only shows live TV. Aka, the way it was before anyone ever heard of a "dvr" (or "tivo").

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirecTV
From the above URL:
(HD Receivers, NO DVR)
DirecTV HD Receiver (H10/H20/H21/H23/H24/H25)

(HD Receivers, DVR)
DirecTV Plus HD-DVR (HR20/HR21/HR22/HR23/HR24),

(Standard Def Receivers, DVR)
DirecTV Plus DVR (R15/R16/R22)

You pay $7 to get DVR service if you want DVR service.
You don't pay $7 if you don't want DVR service. And you get live-tv viewing only.

Cable companies makes one pay for DVR service. Comparatively, $7 is pretty good, especially if you have multiple DVR's in your home.


----------



## unitron

BrettStah said:


> Ask them.


Thank you for your valuable contribution to the discussion.


----------



## sloan

unitron said:


> What does DirecTV provide or do for that extra $7 that they wouldn't have to otherwise?
> 
> In other words, how do they earn it?


Here's one way they "earn it".

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/directv/id307386350?mt=8

This is an iPhone/iPad/iPod-Touch application that let's you schedule DVR shows remotely.


----------



## unitron

sloan said:


> You are not required to have a DVR (with DVR Service) on your account. You can have a standard receiver (either standard-resolution or hd-resolution) which only shows live TV. Aka, the way it was before anyone ever heard of a "dvr" (or "tivo").
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirecTV
> From the above URL:
> (HD Receivers, NO DVR)
> DirecTV HD Receiver (H10/H20/H21/H23/H24/H25)
> 
> (HD Receivers, DVR)
> DirecTV Plus HD-DVR (HR20/HR21/HR22/HR23/HR24),
> 
> (Standard Def Receivers, DVR)
> DirecTV Plus DVR (R15/R16/R22)
> 
> You pay $7 to get DVR service if you want DVR service.
> You don't pay $7 if you don't want DVR service. And you get live-tv viewing only.
> 
> Cable companies makes one pay for DVR service. Comparatively, $7 is pretty good, especially if you have multiple DVR's in your home.


Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes.

Cable companies charge you if you use DVRs supplied by them.

My cable company has no idea if we have stand alone TiVos or not, just like they don't know how many TVs or VCRs we have.

If one has a satellite receiver feeding a stand alone TiVo, and the TiVo changes channels on the satellite box, does DirecTV charge any more than they would otherwise?


----------



## Adam1115

Wow, no kidzone. :sigh:


----------



## sloan

unitron said:


> Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes.
> 
> Cable companies charge you if you use DVRs supplied by them.
> 
> My cable company has no idea if we have stand alone TiVos or not, just like they don't know how many TVs or VCRs we have.
> 
> If one has a satellite receiver feeding a stand alone TiVo, and the TiVo changes channels on the satellite box, does DirecTV charge any more than they would otherwise?


You can still use a Tivo Series 2 (Single Tuner) with a directv receiver to act as your dvr-setup.
Heck, I did this for many years....to do what you are suggesting, to avoid the directv dvr fee. However, it was standard-definition only.

With HD (or rather, our desire to get our shows in hd-resolution), the rules have been altered:
1. TivoHD, Series3 do not work with satellite receivers like they did with Tivo S1 and Tivo S2. So you're "stuck" with either OTA antenna or cable-tv (most require getting a cable-card at a per-month-price for each card)
2. The only satellite HD-DVR option with directv is to get their hd-dvr AND to pay for their dvr-service.

I think what you're saying is "If I get the directv hd-dvr HARDWARE, then why does directv make me pay for the DVR-service?"
Which is the same answer to a lot of questions out there. Because they can.

The stumbling-block is that there is not a stand-alone-Tivo that will record programs in HD-from-directv.

I think some people are paying $2.50/month/ PER CARD for cable cards.
So once you have 3 cable-cards (for cable-tv and a stand-alone-Tivo), you're at $7.50, thus the $7 directv fee seems reasonable.

The tripping point is "HD". If you want HD-DVR from directv, then you pay the piper. If you can deal with StandardDef tv, then a Series 2 Single Tuner Standalone Tivo makes more sense financially.


----------



## nasafella

Just reminiscing - when the HR10-250 first came out, it was $1000, and there were many people (some on this forum, I'm sure), who couldn't get one fast enough. 

When I got mine, the price was down to $400 with occasional promotions dropping the price to $200, which was when I got mine. 

It got all of about 8 HD channels (not counting OTA locals if you could get them), which is far less HD programming than this new one will receive. HD cost about $5 or $10, I don't remember. 

So, while it is relevant to compare this new DirecTiVo to the other DTV DVRs, it's also interesting to compare it to the old one. If you look at it that way, it's more capability and more programming, for about the same price. 

Just saying, you know.


----------



## unitron

sloan said:


> You can still use a Tivo Series 2 (Single Tuner) with a directv receiver to act as your dvr-setup.
> Heck, I did this for many years....to do what you are suggesting, to avoid the directv dvr fee. However, it was standard-definition only.
> 
> With HD (or rather, our desire to get our shows in hd-resolution), the rules have been altered:
> 1. TivoHD, Series3 do not work with satellite receivers like they did with Tivo S1 and Tivo S2. So you're "stuck" with either OTA antenna or cable-tv (most require getting a cable-card at a per-month-price for each card)
> 2. The only satellite HD-DVR option with directv is to get their hd-dvr AND to pay for their dvr-service.
> 
> I think what you're saying is "If I get the directv hd-dvr HARDWARE, then why does directv make me pay for the DVR-service?"
> Which is the same answer to a lot of questions out there. Because they can.
> 
> The stumbling-block is that there is not a stand-alone-Tivo that will record programs in HD-from-directv.
> 
> I think some people are paying $2.50/month/ PER CARD for cable cards.
> So once you have 3 cable-cards (for cable-tv and a stand-alone-Tivo), you're at $7.50, thus the $7 directv fee seems reasonable.
> 
> The tripping point is "HD". If you want HD-DVR from directv, then you pay the piper. If you can deal with StandardDef tv, then a Series 2 Single Tuner Standalone Tivo makes more sense financially.


My interest isn't so much in how their prices compare to alternatives as it is in how they justify them (other than "because we can")

With TiVo you pay for the sub even after you pay for the hardware because that's the price of being licensed to use the software and to be supplied with the guide data.

Does one "lease" receivers from DirecTV as part of the subscription cost, with DVR-capable receivers having a $7 higher lease fee?

Do you lease this new DirecTiVo, paying an extra $7 because it does DVR, and an extra $5 because the DVR part runs TiVo software?

(does that mean that they admit that the TiVo DVR software is worth $5 more per month than their own?)


----------



## HiDefGator

as it is in how they justify them (other than "because we can") >>

Directv spends a heck of a lot of money on DVR development. They also have to pay Tivo a license fee. Support costs are considerbaly higher for DVR vs. non-DVR's. Your $7 a month covers all these costs and more. It seems perfectly justified to me.


----------



## HiDefGator

(does that mean that they admit that the TiVo DVR software is worth $5 more per month than their own?) >>

huh? maybe if millions of customers agree to pay the $5 upgrade fee then they will have to admit the Tivo software is better. but I don't see that happening.


----------



## sloan

> Directv spends a heck of a lot of money on DVR development. They also have to pay Tivo a license fee. Support costs are considerbaly higher for DVR vs. non-DVR's. Your $7 a month covers all these costs and more. It seems perfectly justified to me.


I agree. The extra training required to train CSR's on non-tivo-hd-dvr's and tivo-hd-dvr's is a significant cost. Heck, this is the one reason I thought I've never see a directv/tivo again. Directv has already weathered the storm after they put out to pasture the HR10-250's. And their non-tivo units are stable and get the job done now.
So I'm fairly (but pleasantly) surprised they are actually doing the directv/tivo marriage again.

I, for one, have no issue with the $7/month fee. Do I wish it was $5/month? Sure. But since I have multiple DVR's in the house now, I appreciate the fact it is a 'by account' fee, and not by receiver.

And I understand the $5 tivo specific fee. This is what a lot of people (at this very forum) said for a long time now. "Give us the Tivo option, we'll pay a little more for it, to offset your fees to Tivo".
So people who love Tivo have an option with directv now. If you don't care about the Tivo experience, save your money and get a non-tivo-directv-dvr.


----------



## lxtasy

I want Direct*, have heard about this new Tivo box that has been in the works for some time and now it is here. For a new subscriber who Direct* really wants to join their family and get my $$$$, which box is really "better", the THR22 or the HR24? Right now I have TWC HD DVR in 2 rooms - Family Room / Master BR and just a HD box in my daughters room. Most of the recording occurs in the family room, but we really double record (same show on both the Family Room / Master BR DVR's) because we always seem to have a issue over everyone wanting to watch their show. Do I assume correctly that the THR22 box is not a "whole house DVR" system? Of course cost is a major concern, but I do want to get what everyone will be happy with on the 1st try as I don't want to be trying to change later on for some ridiculous amount of $$$. Advise? Feedback? Questions for me?


----------



## sloan

lxtasy said:


> I want Direct*, have heard about this new Tivo box that has been in the works for some time and now it is here. For a new subscriber who Direct* really wants to join their family and get my $$$$, which box is really "better", the THR22 or the HR24? Right now I have TWC HD DVR in 2 rooms - Family Room / Master BR and just a HD box in my daughters room. Most of the recording occurs in the family room, but we really double record (same show on both the Family Room / Master BR DVR's) because we always seem to have a issue over everyone wanting to watch their show. Do I assume correctly that the THR22 box is not a "whole house DVR" system? Of course cost is a major concern, but I do want to get what everyone will be happy with on the 1st try as I don't want to be trying to change later on for some ridiculous amount of $$$. Advise? Feedback? Questions for me?


We don't know. The THR22 don't come out until tomorrow in select markets. And only some markets.

If I were in your shoes, then.

1. If Whole-House was what I wanted, you only have one choice. But you gotta pay for it. I have multiple HD-DVR's in my house. But the whole house feature isn't worth the price. You should also research the ethernet requirements for whole house.

2. Other than that, I'd get the new directv/tivo unit. The Tivo interface remains the best (In my single humble opinion).

But that's me. I've had some version of a Tivo since 2001 in my house. The first time the 12 hour unit went on sale at Circuit City, I got one. Wow, 12 hours of standard def tv shows. That was a long time ago.


----------



## ncted

lxtasy said:


> I want Direct*, have heard about this new Tivo box that has been in the works for some time and now it is here. For a new subscriber who Direct* really wants to join their family and get my $$$$, which box is really "better", the THR22 or the HR24? Right now I have TWC HD DVR in 2 rooms - Family Room / Master BR and just a HD box in my daughters room. Most of the recording occurs in the family room, but we really double record (same show on both the Family Room / Master BR DVR's) because we always seem to have a issue over everyone wanting to watch their show. Do I assume correctly that the THR22 box is not a "whole house DVR" system? Of course cost is a major concern, but I do want to get what everyone will be happy with on the 1st try as I don't want to be trying to change later on for some ridiculous amount of $$$. Advise? Feedback? Questions for me?


I'd also consider the HR34 whole home system they are about to release. It has 5 tuners that can playback in up to 4 rooms.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/directv-forum/272992-directv-hr34-home-media-center-launches.html

That said, I am planning to leave my HS24 whole-home goodness for a pair of Premiers with OTA as it is just getting too expensive to pay for cable/satellite every month. Just waiting out the contract right now. Maybe by the time I am ready, streaming from one Tivo to another will be working. 

-Ted


----------



## eleventeen

Customer Service officially knows they are being released tomorrow to select markets, opening up to others "at a later date". I was on the phone this afternoon about another issue and asked and they had just gotten an email but it didn't have any details yet on the markets or ZIP codes covered when she went to check into it further for me. Guess we'll find that out tomorrow.


----------



## nasafella

Looking back at the first post in this thread, how many people who signed up for email updates from DirecTV on this new box actually got an email update. 
Show of hands? Anyone? Anyone?


----------



## stevel

I would not make any assumptions about the interface, speed or much else until the THR22 hits the market and there are real-world reviews. I am sure they will show up soon. As I've said before, look at the disaster that was the Comcast TiVo for an example of what could go wrong.


----------



## HiDefGator

The hardware in the HR24 is faster than the 22. Now maybe Tivo's software is just so slick it will make the 22 seem as fast as a 24. That remains to be seen. But I would still want the HR24 myself.


----------



## ronsch

I too am going to wait for the reviews. I am just a plain SD TiVo user still depending primarily on my Series 1 DSR6000, an HDR312(DirecTV & Comcast Basic) and two Series 2 SAs one with Comcast Basic and the other hooked up to DirecTV.

Whole House - Don't need it although now with two Series 2 boxes I have transferred a couple of programs. Nice Feature but don't need it.

No Kid Zone, Game Search, You Tube - Don't care in the least.

Basic TiVo Features - Unlimited SP, Wishlists, Suggestions, etc. That's what I'm looking for!

Am a little disappointed that it only has a 500GB drive. I use a 500GB drive in my DSR6000 and one of the Series 2 SA.

The decision will be between the THR22 with DirecTV and a 4-tuner Premiere Elite with a 2TB drive with full-blown Comcast instead of just Basic and all of the TiVo features.

The only thing I lose by dropping DirecTV is NFL Sunday Ticket and as long as I can get Red Zone from Comcast I can live with that. I will wait for the reviews but I can't see the THR22 being a better choice under any scenario.


----------



## Rainy Dave

Just checked my account on DirecTV.com. I can order a "TiVo HD-DVR from DIRECTV" if I wanted one. 

So..they have hit the market (in selected areas).


----------



## sloan

> although now with two Series 2 boxes I have transferred a couple of programs.


This is the feature I am very curious about with the new directv/hd/tivo boxes. If I can do that, then that would satisfy that once in a while need to get one show from one box to the other.

The TivoHD and Tivo-Premiere allow for this as well I think.

I think the TivoHD can pull shows off of a Series2, and a Series2 can pull ANALOG shows off of the TivoHD. Obviously, the Series2 cannot pull digital shows off of the TivoHD. That would trying to play a CD in a cassette boom-box.

But if the new directv/hd/tivo machines have the same copy-from functionality that the TivoHD/Premiere/Series2 has, that might be the tipping point for me.


----------



## technojunkie

Just in case you want to confirm availability go here .

http://support.directv.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3699/session/L3RpbWUvMTMyMzM1OTU2OS9zaWQvQnZubHU0TGs=


----------



## eleventeen

I bit the bullet and ordered, I need a new dish so they'll be here tomorrow to install hopefully. I'll keep everybody posted. I'm running a HD DirecTivo and SD DirecTivo now and they are both dying....again.


----------



## sloan

eleventeen said:


> be here tomorrow to install hopefully. I'll keep everybody posted.


Thank you! Looking forward to the report.


----------



## CuriousMark

sloan said:


> This is the feature I am very curious about with the new directv/hd/tivo boxes. If I can do that, then that would satisfy that once in a while need to get one show from one box to the other.
> 
> The TivoHD and Tivo-Premiere allow for this as well I think.
> 
> I think the TivoHD can pull shows off of a Series2, and a Series2 can pull ANALOG shows off of the TivoHD. Obviously, the Series2 cannot pull digital shows off of the TivoHD. That would trying to play a CD in a cassette boom-box.
> 
> But if the new directv/hd/tivo machines have the same copy-from functionality that the TivoHD/Premiere/Series2 has, that might be the tipping point for me.


Nope, DirecTV has that feature disabled.


----------



## litzdog911

sloan said:


> ...
> But if the new directv/hd/tivo machines have the same copy-from functionality that the TivoHD/Premiere/Series2 has, that might be the tipping point for me.


Unfortunately they do not.


----------



## sloan

CuriousMark said:


> Nope, DirecTV has that feature disabled.





litzdog911 said:


> Unfortunately they do not.




That stinks.


----------



## Alecp

nasafella said:


> Looking back at the first post in this thread, how many people who signed up for email updates from DirecTV on this new box actually got an email update.
> Show of hands? Anyone? Anyone?


I got an email today at noon (EST). Not sure if it was because I was signed up, or if it was just a mass email to all DirecTV subs. Copy of text below:



> Were baaack! TiVo and DIRECTV are together again.
> The TiVo HD DVR from DIRECTV
> Now you can once again enjoy the world-famous TiVo® service seamlessly integrated with DIRECTV through the TiVo HD DVR from DIRECTV. Enhance your TV-viewing experience with TiVo and DIRECTV today. Find out more
> 
> · Record up to 100 hours in spectacular HD, or 400 hours of SD*
> · Record two shows at once; watch one while recording another
> · Enjoy TiVo's legendary, elegant and easy-to-use interface
> · Find your favorite shows with ease across television and DIRECTV On Demand
> · Access over 6,000 on-demand movies and shows at no charge**
> 
> If you live in one of the available markets, act now to get your TiVo HD DVR from DIRECTV.
> 
> Order yours today!
> 
> The TiVo HD DVR from
> DIRECTV is available today
> in these ten markets:
> 
> · Chicago, IL
> · Denver, CO
> · Los Angeles, CA
> · New York, NY
> · Philadelphia, PA
> · Phoenix, AZ
> · Sacramento, CA
> · San Francisco, CA
> · Seattle, WA
> · Washington, D.C.
> 
> Available nationwide in early 2012


If anyone cares about my plans:
I'll be patiently awaiting the nationwide rollout since I'm not in one of the lucky markets. I have a HD non-DVR receiver that I'll be looking to upgrade. I still have two SD Tivo boxes (a S1 and S2, been successfully running since ~2002&2004ish? - knock on wood*) - I'm reluctant to retire them because I only have one HD TV (waiting to upgrade until I move) and I currently have them available for watching in multiple rooms of the house (thanks to an IR repeater system and a coax (?) modulator). Don't think I could pull off a similar system with the HD Tivo, which would be a major bummer. It's nice to have flexibility on which room to watch your shows in. (guess I could get that with the multi-room system (MRV?) but the Tivo doesn't have that).

*I attribute the longevity of my S1 (upgraded w/ 2nd drive) and S2 DTivos to luck, but also to the fact that they're kept in the basement, with a dehumidifier running near-by. So it's a relatively cool, dust free, and dry environment. Perfect for electronics like that.


----------



## spudly

sloan said:


> Correct.
> 
> The $7 DVR fee is "per account", not per receiver.
> So if you have 1 or 2 or 6 DVR's on your account, you pay $7.
> 
> The $10 HD fee is "per account". If you lease a HD receiver, or HD-DVR, you must pay the fee. I have no idea what happens if you lease a HD-DVR, then say "I don't want HD anymore", if they swap out your HD receivers or SD receivers or just let you use the HD receivers (in SD mode).
> 
> The $5 Tivo fee is "per account" as well I believe. And not per machine.
> 
> If you have a directv (non tivo) HD-DVR (HR-xx), then you're most likely already paying the $17 ($7 + $10) already.
> 
> So at the end of the day, a Directv/Tivo will add $5 to your monthly bill "per account".


And if you (like me) are paying $0 for DVR service becuase you bought the lifetime option back in 2000 then pressume we still would then have to pay the extra $5.

Also in my case I'd have to pay the HD fee because I've been living in the SD world with my original DirecTivo's.


----------



## sloan

spudly said:


> bought the lifetime option back in 2000 .


Excellent question. That one will take a lawyer or some lawyer-esque-ness I think. No, I didn't get that option back in 2000.

I think you should fight and try to get the new Tivo boxes and not pay the $7/month fee. That would rock.


----------



## RickL66

nasafella said:


> Looking back at the first post in this thread, how many people who signed up for email updates from DirecTV on this new box actually got an email update.
> Show of hands? Anyone? Anyone?


I got the email from TiVo today not DirecTV. I think both places offered the option to let me know when it's out, but I asked on TiVo's site.


----------



## Colby

I also got the email from Tivo this morning (11:01 CST) but I'm not in one of the lucky markets either. However, I AM one of those who purchased the lifetime subscription option previously (as well as paid $$ for the original HR10-250) and I am NOT happy about sticking with DirecTV waiting for the new Tivo units to come out and being charged an extra $5 per month if I want to get the new DirecTivo unit.

Needless to say I will be watching this closely to see if DirecTV is going to offer me something better. If not, this is going to be the straw that broke the camel's back and I'm going to cancel my DirecTV service (which I've now had for over 15 years)!


----------



## sloan

Colby said:


> However, I AM one of those who purchased the lifetime subscription option previously


I can almost hear the reasoning now.

"Murdoch is no longer here, thus we don't have to honor that lifetime thing".

I HOPE that is not the case. Lifetime should mean Lifetime!

Attention all Class Action Lawyers who visit the site. This might be the next way for your firm to get millions of dollars and each lifetime-payer to get $1 plus a few pennies. I want a 10% finders fee since I made you aware of this injustice! I know you guys do it for the justice of it all, not the millions of dollars.

Like this.


----------



## stoots

Will these DirecTiVo boxes do Netflix like the series 3? 
Will they do box to box transfers like the series 3? 
I have 3 TiVO HD boxes so for me to switch away from Comcast, I will need to at least have those features.


----------



## Wil

stoots said:


> Will these DirecTiVo boxes do Netflix like the series 3?
> Will they do box to box transfers like the series 3?
> I have 3 TiVO HD boxes so for me to switch away from Comcast, I will need to at least have those features.


No. No.

What happens when/if there is a significant DirecTivo customer base courteously requesting that the crippling of these features be removed? Who knows.


----------



## ffisher55

nasafella said:


> Looking back at the first post in this thread, how many people who signed up for email updates from DirecTV on this new box actually got an email update.
> Show of hands? Anyone? Anyone?


I signed up for notification a long time ago, and received an email yesterday.


----------



## rcfisher

I do not remember if I signed up or not but did receive a email today!
I cancelled my DTV when they tried to jack my bill up for HD and a crappy receiver without tivo. Now that they have tivo back Im very interested!


----------



## sloan

rcfisher said:


> I do not remember if I signed up or not but did receive a email today!
> I cancelled my DTV when they tried to jack my bill up for HD and a crappy receiver without tivo. Now that they have tivo back Im very interested!


See this post.

We've been waiting for you!


----------



## ncted

sloan said:


> See this post.
> 
> We've been waiting for you!


+1


----------



## johnd01

Companies push programing but the biggest difference is in the DVR. Within limits, who ever has the best DVR get my vote. I do prefer D*TV over Comcast but as it stands now Comcast has a better Tivo still. Until that changes I do not see a need to go back to D*TV. 

From the limited information, the new Tivo is about 4 years old (behind times). Not that the new cable Tivos are that good. Tivo should be able to do anything as well as a Roku. Wish that were the case. If Roku can do it why can't Tivo?

I just ordered a Roku and a rooftop antenna to go with my Tivos... 

Still would like to see some reviews but if the box is a crippled as it seems to be why bother with it. It needs to be able to compete with other family members. If it cannot it will fail. Its like they took a knife to a gun fight.

When you compete you have to do your best. Can you imagine a nascar driver running a 4 year old design? This box does not seem that much better than my HDVR2. To me the difference in DVRs is as big a diff. as HD to SD. 

I could run HD locals on my cable tivos boxes, Roku for VOD and turn my HDVR2s back on. Could I simulate Roku with my Tivo desk top, pull D*Tv from my HDVR2s to the desk top and feed it into the Tivo Premieres?

Program a unified index into a tablet pc and us it as a remote control to move shows around and do co-operative recording. The Roku box may be the hardest to integrate but all I would have to do is add its programing to the index and download it when needed.

Any comets?


----------



## oldsurferjoe

Ours is coming $199 free shipping! Very excited - just think of the firmware updates at minimum. I still love our HR10-250's but!

I don't want Youtube, Multi-room, recorder to recorder, just a solid HD Tivo!

Will report back!


----------



## oldsurferjoe

stoots said:


> Will these DirecTiVo boxes do Netflix like the series 3?
> Will they do box to box transfers like the series 3?
> I have 3 TiVO HD boxes so for me to switch away from Comcast, I will need to at least have those features.


No
No
Yes


----------



## elmofongo

Ordered mine yesterday to replace one of my 2 Samsung DirecTivo's. I qualified for the $99 price. Only on capacity available for now (500GB drive), they claim 75 hours of HD and 400 hours of SD. I was disappointed about the extra $5/month Tivo fee I have to pay now, in addition to the current $7 I already pay as a "DVR" fee. Of course I also have to shell out $10 a month for HD service also.

Does anyone know why I was not charged the $5 monthly Tivo fee for my old DirecTivo boxes?


----------



## bigpuma

elmofongo said:


> Ordered mine yesterday to replace one of my 2 Samsung DirecTivo's. I qualified for the $99 price. Only on capacity available for now (500GB drive), they claim 75 hours of HD and 400 hours of SD. I was disappointed about the extra $5/month Tivo fee I have to pay now, in addition to the current $7 I already pay as a "DVR" fee. Of course I also have to shell out $10 a month for HD service also.
> 
> Does anyone know why I was not charged the $5 monthly Tivo fee for my old DirecTivo boxes?


Did you know if you set up auto-pay you can get DirecTV to wave the $10/month HD service fee. As for the $5/month TiVo fee that is new and only for the new THR22 device. The older DirecTiVos fall under the $7/month DVR fee that covers the account.


----------



## elmofongo

bigpuma said:


> Did you know if you set up auto-pay you can get DirecTV to wave the $10/month HD service fee. As for the $5/month TiVo fee that is new and only for the new THR22 device. The older DirecTiVos fall under the $7/month DVR fee that covers the account.


Wow! I'll have to take advantage of the auto-pay. Is this offer advertized on their website?

Regarding the monthly DVR fee, seems like I will still be paying the $7 along with the new $5. Does that sound correct?


----------



## sloan

elmofongo said:


> Wow! I'll have to take advantage of the auto-pay. Is this offer advertized on their website?
> 
> Regarding the monthly DVR fee, seems like I will still be paying the $7 along with the new $5. Does that sound correct?


Yes.


----------



## bigpuma

elmofongo said:


> Wow! I'll have to take advantage of the auto-pay. Is this offer advertized on their website?


I don't think they advertise this at all. It was started when DISH started advertising free HD. Set up Auto-pay and then call DirecTV to make sure you get it.



> Regarding the monthly DVR fee, seems like I will still be paying the $7 along with the new $5. Does that sound correct?


Yes that is correct, assuming you already have a DVR and are currently paying the $7 fee now. You would start paying the additional $5/month with the new HD TiVo (THR22).

ETA: Or what Sloan said. That will teach me to be so wordy in my responses.


----------



## elmofongo

Any word on which OS version it's coming with?


----------



## stevel

See http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=479794


----------



## myxpykalix

What a ripoff!! I have been waiting for the new direct tv tivo for 2-3 years. I have 2 tivos now and was told that in addition to the direct tv programming that i pay 70.00 month for plus 12.95+6.95 for tivo I would have to pay $199.00 for the reciever plus an additional $10. +7.00 per unit, so my cost is $54.00/month just to make this work.
No wonder Tivo has lost over a million+ subscribers. I have been a loyal customer for over 10 years (still using a series 1) 

SOON TO BE EX TIVO/DIRECTTV CUSTOMER:down:


----------



## unitron

myxpykalix said:


> What a ripoff!! I have been waiting for the new direct tv tivo for 2-3 years. I have 2 tivos now and was told that in addition to the direct tv programming that i pay 70.00 month for plus 12.95+6.95 for tivo I would have to pay $199.00 for the reciever plus an additional $10. +7.00 per unit, so my cost is $54.00/month just to make this work.
> No wonder Tivo has lost over a million+ subscribers. I have been a loyal customer for over 10 years (still using a series 1)
> 
> SOON TO BE EX TIVO/DIRECTTV CUSTOMER:down:


You forgot the extra $5 per month for using the new DirecTiVo instead of just a DirecTV DVR.


----------



## litzdog911

myxpykalix said:


> What a ripoff!! I have been waiting for the new direct tv tivo for 2-3 years. I have 2 tivos now and was told that in addition to the direct tv programming that i pay 70.00 month for plus 12.95+6.95 for tivo I would have to pay $199.00 for the reciever plus an additional $10. +7.00 per unit, so my cost is $54.00/month just to make this work.
> No wonder Tivo has lost over a million+ subscribers. I have been a loyal customer for over 10 years (still using a series 1)
> 
> SOON TO BE EX TIVO/DIRECTTV CUSTOMER:down:


The $10 HD Programming fee is waived if you sign up for automatic paperless bill payment.

If you already have two DirecTivos, then you should already be paying the $7/mo DVR Fee. That won't change if you add more DirecTivos, or replace your old Tivos.

And I think the new $5/mo Tivo Fee covers as many new Tivos as you want, not per Tivo.


----------



## myxpykalix

I am running a older series 2 upstairs and a series 1 downstairs and until recently i was running my own Sony SAT B55 recievers on both. I had to replace one reciever with a seperate direct tv reciever that WILL NOT let the tivo change its channel so it is practically USELESS unless you change or preset the channel to record. So i am not using a directtivo dvr but am paying an extra $5/month on that reciever that aint worth a damn.

Do they understand that they are pricing themselves out of the market? :down:


----------



## drmanny3

We have been waiting for several years as well. I just ordered one for my parents. The cost was $214 delivered. There was no need to change our current programing. At first they wanted to have it installed. But I convinced them that we were already setup for HD DVRs. They said ok, and it is on its way. I understand that the regular remotes will also work with this unit. I wonder about the older peanut remotes. Do you think they will continue to work with the new Tivo HD unit?????


----------



## litzdog911

drmanny3 said:


> .... I wonder about the older peanut remotes. Do you think they will continue to work with the new Tivo HD unit?????


No.


----------



## eddyj

litzdog911 said:


> And I think the new $5/mo Tivo Fee covers as many new Tivos as you want, not per Tivo.


Has this been confirmed? I might be willing to pay $5/account, but not $5/TiVo


----------



## drmanny3

Sorry for asking again. But the peanut remote that I have been using with the hr10-250 will not work with the new direct tv Tivo unit, is that correct? 

If this is so, can I order a second remote like the one that comes with the new Tivo unit?
Thanks,
Manny


----------



## stevel

Someone over at DBStalk posted an exchange with a DirecTV CSR where it was stated that the $5 fee was per account, but most other posts have said it was per box. We shall see.

As for the remote, the HR10 remote will not control the THR22. I expect you'll be able to order more remotes.


----------



## myxpykalix

DRMANNY... do you live (or parents) live in one of the test markets? I live in Virginia, not far from Washington, DC test market and they said i couldn't order one......what is the difference? Just another stupid marketing gimmick that in the end loses customers for them...morons.

This is what we get for being loyal customers....:down:


----------



## litzdog911

drmanny3 said:


> Sorry for asking again. But the peanut remote that I have been using with the hr10-250 will not work with the new direct tv Tivo unit, is that correct?
> 
> If this is so, can I order a second remote like the one that comes with the new Tivo unit?
> Thanks,
> Manny


Correct. The HR10-250 remote will not work with the new THR22 HD DirecTivo. You can probably order a second remote from DirecTV.


----------



## fasTLane

What is the best route for a standalone Tivo? I need OTA with HD and something that closely emulates what I have in the HR10-250, remote codes and all.


----------



## stevel

There is no one solution for you. The new DTiVo is closest, with the AM21 added, but the remote codes are different. If you insist on a standalone then there is nothing that will do all that and DirecTV.


----------



## RickL66

Our friends over at DBSTalk did a fairly in-depth review of the new THR22. http://hr20.dbstalk.com/docs/Tivo First Look.pdf


----------



## eric_n_dfw

Have been anxiously awaiting this news for 1.5 years since I came back to DTV on a pair of HR24's after TimeWarner rendered my pair of TivoHD's MRV feature useless. (Copy bit). In fact, the only reason I left DTV any my 10 year old DirecTivo back in 2007 was because I needed an HD DVR and I hated all of the others.


I would love to have the Tivo interface, wish-lists and suggestions back but the lack of MRV and Kidzone just kill this for me.

Why in the world would Tivo even put their name on this with such a lacking of feature parity with the HR's - it's as if DTV just wants it to fail.

I'm bitter. (if you couldn't tell)


----------



## stevel

I understand both sides of this. For me personally, I would not choose to buy the THR22 as I have no problem with the HR2x UI and I like the features. But then there are many, such as my wife, for whom the TiVo UI is the most important feature and everything else, including HD, is secondary. It is these people who are the audience for the THR22.

Yes, in an ideal world we might have it all, all the features of the THR22 with the TiVo UI. We can argue forever as to whom is to "blame" for this not happening, but I don't see the point. We've known for years that the new TiVo box would not have anything close to feature parity with the HR2x series nor with the Series 3 and Premier models, but some chose to hope for something better.

I will most likely be ordering a THR22 when I am able to. Not for myself, but for my wife who steadfastly sticks to the HR10 in all its SD glory, while I use the HR21 (the new HD UI is really nice and fast.) I expect there are enough others out there who value the TiVo UI to make the THR22 a modest success. It doesn't need to be much more.

What I wonder about is what the future holds for TiVo UI DirecTV boxes. I have not yet heard anything encouraging here, such as closing the feature gap. It may be that the THR22 is it, while DirecTV moves on. We shall see.


----------



## sloan

> but some chose to hope for something better


If I were releasing a new product, I would release the "must have features" first. Then, after some success, start opening up features. 
(( I have no idea if that is directv's plan. ))

IMHO, it is better to have 3 features that work reliably, (and be missing 4 other features), then to have 7 features that "kinda" work. Yes, even if your competitor(s) have all 7 features. Reputation (on reliability) promotes long term success, not short term success.

In the software and hardware development world, there is this constant tension between speed-of-release and reliability of what you release.
There will always be critics of whatever choice is made to balance this tension.

"They should have waited until it was tested properly." 
"Why did you release this thing before it was ready?"

"Why did they DELAY the release date? They suck."

I think (or secretly hope maybe) that the new directv/hd/tivo boxes will be competitive. I might be wrong.
But I am eagerly waiting when my market opens up so I can try the new box out for myself.


----------



## RickL66

sloan said:


> "They should have waited until it was tested properly."
> "Why did you release this thing before it was ready?"


One thing I don't get is, TiVo and DirecTV has reunited in 2008, and it took 3, almost 4 years to come up with this?


----------



## sloan

RickL66 said:


> One thing I don't get is, TiVo and DirecTV has reunited in 2008, and it took 3, almost 4 years to come up with this?


I'm guessing you're not a software developer by profession.


----------



## RickL66

sloan said:


> I'm guessing you're not a software developer by profession.


You guessed wrong. I *am* a software developer developing in VS 2010, mainly in C#.


----------



## litzdog911

RickL66 said:


> One thing I don't get is, TiVo and DirecTV has reunited in 2008, and it took 3, almost 4 years to come up with this?


I'm guessing that this isn't the only thing the Tivo software developers were working on. Plus, I heard that there was lengthy beta test phase due to software quality issues.


----------



## Jerry_K

stevel said:


> I understand both sides of this. For me personally, I would not choose to buy the THR22 as I have no problem with the HR2x UI and I like the features. But then there are many, such as my wife, for whom the TiVo UI is the most important feature and everything else, including HD, is secondary. It is these people who are the audience for the THR22.
> 
> Yes, in an ideal world we might have it all, all the features of the THR22 with the TiVo UI. We can argue forever as to whom is to "blame" for this not happening, but I don't see the point. We've known for years that the new TiVo box would not have anything close to feature parity with the HR2x series nor with the Series 3 and Premier models, but some chose to hope for something better.
> 
> I will most likely be ordering a THR22 when I am able to. Not for myself, but for my wife who steadfastly sticks to the HR10 in all its SD glory, while I use the HR21 (the new HD UI is really nice and fast.) I expect there are enough others out there who value the TiVo UI to make the THR22 a modest success. It doesn't need to be much more.
> 
> What I wonder about is what the future holds for TiVo UI DirecTV boxes. I have not yet heard anything encouraging here, such as closing the feature gap. It may be that the THR22 is it, while DirecTV moves on. We shall see.


It is the UI for us. Best DVR UI in the whole market. The lack of MRV is just plain stupid and renders the units useless for us. We always have something recording on four tuners. If we cannot watch two of those tuner recordings in the other room it is useless. We never watch "Live TV". Each of our DirecTiVo units have well over 100 season passes on them. So a limit of 50 season passes is as useless as no MRV.


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## lrhorer

RickL66 said:


> One thing I don't get is, TiVo and DirecTV has reunited in 2008, and it took 3, almost 4 years to come up with this?


I seriously doubt there was quite that much in the way of technical issues. I would be willing to bet at least $0.10 all the issues had a political / legal / marketing / economic basis with both companies demanding incompatible things.


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## gtadell

Anyone know if it will output component and Hdmi simultaneously?


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## goony

> But then there are many, such as my wife, for whom the TiVo UI is the most important feature and everything else, including HD, is secondary. It is these people who are the audience for the THR22.


I used to consider myself in that category (I had 4 SD DTivo boxes), but no more. I finally sprang for my first HD TV a + HR24 (DirecTV DVR) this summer. If this new THR22 had MRV + internet capabilities, then I would be considering a move back to Tivo... but without those features too, it's a no-go for me.


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## litzdog911

gtadell said:


> Anyone know if it will output component and Hdmi simultaneously?


Yes. All outputs are active simultaneously.


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## lrhorer

goony said:


> I used to consider myself in that category (I had 4 SD DTivo boxes), but no more. I finally sprang for my first HD TV a + HR24 (DirecTV DVR) this summer. If this new THR22 had MRV + internet capabilities, then I would be considering a move back to Tivo... but without those features too, it's a no-go for me.


My sister has a Series I DirecTiVo, and soon she is going to need to upgrade, for obvious reasons. She has no use for MRV, and her internet connection is far too slow and unreliable to make internet services an option, but I admit without a To Go option it is dificult to advise her to get one of the new TiVos. OTOH, I know she will not be happy to have the UI change.

Does anyone know if the DTiVo supports HMO or HME?


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## drmanny3

myxpykalix said:


> DRMANNY... do you live (or parents) live in one of the test markets? I live in Virginia, not far from Washington, DC test market and they said i couldn't order one......what is the difference? Just another stupid marketing gimmick that in the end loses customers for them...morons.
> 
> This is what we get for being loyal customers....:down:


We live in Orange County, CA which is close to Los Angeles one of the markets they identified. The new unit may not be the best in the world but it will be so much better than the hr10-250.
Manny


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## johnd01

Does the new unit have wish list? Is there a limit on season passes, wish list, or todo lists? My season pass manager says > 200 now.


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## RickL66

johnd01 said:


> Does the new unit have wish list? Is there a limit on season passes, wish list, or todo lists? My season pass manager says > 200 now.


Yes, it has wish list. See http://hr20.dbstalk.com/docs/Tivo First Look.pdf on page 7. No limit on season passes, see page 8.


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## drmanny3

I just install the new Tivo in my parents home. The picture is just great and the screens are a nice improvement. I am having one problem. With my old peanut remote I could control the Sony Receiver so that the parental units could turn up, down, volume. But the new peanut remote did not have a code that would work with the Sony Receiver. I ordered a new RF remote, not sure that will help. Any ideas as to how I can control the Sony with the new Peanut remote?
Thanks,
Manny


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## sloan

drmanny3 said:


> I just install the new Tivo in my parents home. The picture is just great and the screens are a nice improvement. I am having one problem. With my old peanut remote I could control the Sony Receiver so that the parental units could turn up, down, volume. But the new peanut remote did not have a code that would work with the Sony Receiver. I ordered a new RF remote, not sure that will help. Any ideas as to how I can control the Sony with the new Peanut remote?
> Thanks,
> 
> Manny


You might publish the exact model number of your Sony device in case someone else has it. (longshot).

My newest directv (non tivo) remote coupled with a new hd-dvr (non tivo) receiver had a "back and forth" wizard it went through with me setting up the devices.

Basically, thinking it out in my pee brain, I believe your remote will either have the code or not have the code. Aka, they are not teachable/learnable remotes.

Therefore, if you tried ~every code in your old remote and it did not work, then you're stuck. (I have some old/old S1 tivo remotes that put me in the same boat back in the day).

Hopefully, it will be a simple case of "new remote = latest and greatest library of codes".

I got my brother an NFL remote for his Christmas gift this year. I hope it has a good library of remote codes.


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## drmanny3

The Sony Home Theater is the HT-SS380 It has 3 hemi outputs and otherwise is a light weight with respect to AVR receivers. It comes with speakers. So anyone out there been able to get the peanut remote to control volume using this receiver your help is appreciated


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## kaszeta

drmanny3 said:


> The Sony Home Theater is the HT-SS380 It has 3 hemi outputs and otherwise is a light weight with respect to AVR receivers. It comes with speakers. So anyone out there been able to get the peanut remote to control volume using this receiver your help is appreciated


I ran into this a few years ago with a Sony Receiver. I think this info is still accurate.

A lot of Sony receivers have two sets of remote codes they can answer to: AV1 and AV2. Generally, the receiver and the remote with it are factory set to AV2, but the Peanut remote only knows AV1 codes[1].

So if you want to use your Peanut remote, you need to reset your receiver to use AV1 codes instead of AV2. Look in your manual.

[1] And, conversely, it's difficult to get a Harmony remote to speak AV1 instead of AV2.


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## mp11

Is it my understanding this new DirecTivo has no OTA tuner?


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## Lord Vader

That is correct. You need to purchase (they run ~ $50) the AM21 OTA tuner and connect that.


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## Tigerdog1

So I understand that DirecTV has finally got the new TiVO boxes available. Unfortunately, I got tired of waiting several months ago and I ordered some regular HD DVR boxes. I still have two older TiVO units and I like them. 

What advantage would I get, if any, by now swapping out some of my units for TiVO?


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## RickL66

Tigerdog1 said:


> So I understand that DirecTV has finally got the new TiVO boxes available. Unfortunately, I got tired of waiting several months ago and I ordered some regular HD DVR boxes. I still have two older TiVO units and I like them.
> 
> What advantage would I get, if any, by now swapping out some of my units for TiVO?


This chart will give you a comparison and what advantages are of the new TiVo box and other DVR boxes... http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/technology/tivo_receiver


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## myxpykalix

I'm FURIOUS after talking to direct tv and figured i'd talk to someone here who KNEW something because those idiots don't!!!

Here is my situation and what i want. I have 2 tivos and recievers.

Downstairs i have a series 1 tivo and a B55 Sony reciever works fin e no prob.

Upstairs i have a series 2 with a standard direct tv reciever that does not work with the tivo to change channels so you have to manually change reciever, then channel on tivo to synch them up, thats no good for recording purposes.
I am paying 5 or 6 bucks/month lease on the reciever that doesn't work right upstairs.
What i want is to replace the standalone reciever upstairs and the series2 with the direct tivo.

They tell me I will have to pay 
5.00 for the tivo service/8.00 for the DVR/10.00 for HD service per month PLUS I still have to pay 5.00/mo lease on the old standalone reciever that I am replacing with the direct tivo...in addition to paying $149.00 for the unit to begin with....DOES THIS MAKE ANY SENSE TO YOU?

I think what is pissing me off more then anything is the 5 bucks for the old reciever PLUS this is what you get for being a LOYAL CUSTOMER for 12 years!

Tell me where i am wrong here and i do recall something where someone said the $10./month is waived if you set up auto withdrawl? Thanks for letting me rant!


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## stevel

The only thing that's wrong is the $5 for the old receiver if you remove it from your account. Perhaps the CSR misunderstood and thought you would keep it active. The $10 HD fee can be avoided by signing up for auto-pay (or asking for the credit if you're already on AP). This is good for 24 months but there will probably be some deal to renew, depending on what DISH is doing.

At least you got a discount on the new box.


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## Wil

stevel said:


> You will likely find that any MPEG4-capable DVR will have the FF/Rew issues you complain about. It isn't the software.


Turned out, as expected, it _was_ the software. Tivo can do it right, DirecTV can't.


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