# Series 3 in May 2006?!



## TraScoPur (Jan 21, 2005)

I just called TiVo (Feb 13) to cancel my service because I'm using my cable company's DVR for HD service, and not only did they offer me 3 free months to stay on, but they said they are "crossing their fingers" that the new Series 3 box will be on the shelf in 3-4 months.

Awesome news!


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

People cross their fingers when they know they're lying as well as a sign of hope!


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

Since TiVo has repeatedly stated 'second half of the year', I really, really wouldn't hold my breath for May. Personally I'm thinking more like October, maybe November, but before the holiday shopping season.


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## Rosenkavalier (Nov 9, 2001)

Since the TiVo CSR's are paid to keep you as a subscriber, they will take official info and put the absolute, most positive light on it as possible. Here's a little quick math.

CSR says: "We hope to have the Series 3 on the shelf in 3-4 months!"
It is now mid-February.
Four months from now would be mid-June. Which is practically July.
July is...wait for it..."2H of 2006".

In other words, they are hoping to release the unit sometime in the second half of 2006 (the window given at CES), which might be as early as July (or, for the pessimist, as late as December).

I'd really like to be wrong and see a Series 3 on the shelves in early Summer (especially since our cable co has informed me that we will finally be getting HD service in June or July, so the timing would be nice for me). However, I also recall that multiple CSRs told subscribers calling to cancel back in December 2005 that the unit (which would be later be announced as the Series 3 in Jan 2006 at CES) was going to be coming out in *February 2006.* That could be chalked up to poor internal communications, but I'm just not as optimistic as I once was.


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## TraScoPur (Jan 21, 2005)

You totally could be right, but there was something in the CSR's voice that seemed like it was a real possiblity. She actually kinda slipped when she gave the 3 months line. When I said I'd like to cancel, she asked "could I offer you 3 months for free until the new boxes come out?" and when I asked "Are the boxes really coming out in 3 months?" she kinda stuttered and said "we're crossing our fingers...we've gotten word that they'd like to hit certain retailers in the 3-month time frame...we're all [meaning the CSR staff] are getting pretty anxious over here." Either I'm the most naive person in the world, or there is a real shot at this happening. The CES line could have been a ploy to surprise everybody when they came out at the end of the 2nd quarter.

Just being optimistic....


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## Rosenkavalier (Nov 9, 2001)

I'll be quietly optimistic with you, then. (I need something to be optimistic about.  )


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## cronuslsd (Jan 25, 2006)

I just got a 140 hr tivo series 2 for Chrismas and jumped the gun by ordering a lifetime subscription. Now with news of the series 3 I deffinitely made a bad choice. They should allow us to transfer our subscription when upgrading to a new series.


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## maharg18 (Dec 4, 2002)

You could always sell your Series 2 with lifetime and recoup most if not all of the cost.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

cronuslsd, do you believe that every single program you'll want to record will be in HD? I know that for me there are still SD programs that I watch and I really don't want them taking up space on my HD-TiVo. My approach is that the HD-TiVo is for HD programming since it takes up more space and I have a SD TiVo for SD shows. 

Unless they change policy for the S3, you can add an additional TiVo to your account for $6.95/mo. and since the S3 will cost at least a bit more than current TiVos, it might be nice to defer an additional service cost since you already have Lifetime on one unit.


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## Welshdog (Jan 4, 2005)

this time I will choose to be so. I'm wit you man.

Here's to HD Series three in 3-4 months!!!





TraScoPur said:


> Just being optimistic....


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Those of you optimistic for in 3-4 months....

Be sure to start pestering your local Cable-Co's now... to make sure your HD-DigitalReady CableCards will be available at the same time...

If they are not, T3 "won't" be available for you until they are....


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

bidger said:


> ...I know that for me there are still SD programs that I watch and I really don't want them taking up space on my HD-TiVo. My approach is that the HD-TiVo is for HD programming since it takes up more space and I have a SD TiVo for SD shows....


Those SD shows will take up _*minimal*_ space on your HD TiVo. I wouldn't worry about it.


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## cronuslsd (Jan 25, 2006)

bidger said:


> cronuslsd, do you believe that every single program you'll want to record will be in HD? I know that for me there are still SD programs that I watch and I really don't want them taking up space on my HD-TiVo. My approach is that the HD-TiVo is for HD programming since it takes up more space and I have a SD TiVo for SD shows.
> 
> Unless they change policy for the S3, you can add an additional TiVo to your account for $6.95/mo. and since the S3 will cost at least a bit more than current TiVos, it might be nice to defer an additional service cost since you already have Lifetime on one unit.


While your point is well taken I have to admit that the dual tuner at least for me will be the most important reason to upgrade.


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## Rosenkavalier (Nov 9, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> Be sure to start pestering your local Cable-Co's now... to make sure your HD-DigitalReady CableCards will be available at the same time...


Maybe I've missed your point -- but all CableCards are HD-capable, as long as the cable system is sending out QAM-encoded HD signals. The only real issue is single-stream vs. multi-stream, or needing two cards for dual-tuner versus just one. At this time, I haven't read of any cable system being set to go with multistream, so if a Series 3 landed on my doorstep today, I'd have to get two cards anyway.


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## TraScoPur (Jan 21, 2005)

Multistream cards aren't even out yet, and I don't think they will until late 06 or early to mid 07. Two cable cards shouldn't be an astronomical cost for a year or so.


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## 72morgan (Jan 24, 2005)

I just called 877-BUY-TIVO ; 877-289-8486. I asked when would the Series 3 be available. 

July or August was her answer. Bummer...............


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Rosenkavalier said:


> Maybe I've missed your point -- but all CableCards are HD-capable, as long as the cable system is sending out QAM-encoded HD signals. The only real issue is single-stream vs. multi-stream, or needing two cards for dual-tuner versus just one. At this time, I haven't read of any cable system being set to go with multistream, so if a Series 3 landed on my doorstep today, I'd have to get two cards anyway.


The point I was going at, was that even though the cable companies "say" they have Cable-Cards ready to go.... What kind of volume to they have just sitting around....


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## kas25 (Mar 10, 2003)

Will Series 3 handle playing digital music, pictures and videos?


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## feldon23 (Mar 13, 2001)

It is extremely unlikely that the TiVo Series 3 will have any LESS features than the TiVo Series 2.


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## gohawks63 (Apr 23, 2005)

I just got a replacement HR10-250 because of an HDMI failure. I asked them how far was the Series 3 was. The Tech Support rep stated that "at best" they were shooting for summer of 2006. 

So I would bet, Fall 2006 in reality.


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## kramer0028 (Feb 15, 2006)

i wouldnt be totally if surprised if Tivo released the 3 before july august. they could pull an apple and release the highly anticipated product when the market isn't expecting it. plus they are going to want it available well before fall programming starts. it might be a way to reenergize the tivo subscriber base and also it would allow time for the product life cycle to mature a little before fall.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

gohawks63 said:


> I just got a replacement HR10-250 because of an HDMI failure. I asked them how far was the Series 3 was. The Tech Support rep stated that "at best" they were shooting for summer of 2006.
> 
> So I would bet, Fall 2006 in reality.


Hmmm, you would be talking to a *DIRECTV * Tech Support rep. He would have absolutely _NO IDEA _ of when the *TiVo  Series 3* was due!

You have to remember that D* and TiVo are two seperate and competing companies.


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## feldon23 (Mar 13, 2001)

Who needs a Ouija board when you have tier 1 'tech support' at DirecTV and TiVo postulating on new technology.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

feldon23 said:


> Who needs a Ouija board when you have tier 1 'tech support' at DirecTV and TiVo postulating on new technology.


tier 1...how do I get me some of that? Is that like that special card I got in the mail a few weeks ago with the super secret number?


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## feldon23 (Mar 13, 2001)

Tier 1 = the people you get when you call, and often who you get when you ask for a 'Supervisor'.
Tier 2 = when you are asking a question that there simply is no script available to answer -- takes persistance and/or screaming
Supervisor = a nonexistant person


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## Welshdog (Jan 4, 2005)

feldon23 said:


> Tier 2 = when you are asking a question that there simply is no script available to answer -- takes persistance and/or screaming


There should never be screaming. You know like "There's no crying in baseball !!"

I'm sure you are joking, but really? You have screamed at some hapless phone droid?

Remind me not to have road rage with you.


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## feldon23 (Mar 13, 2001)

I give them 3 tries to try to find a solution to my problem. If all they know how to do is read a script that has nothing to do with my problem, then yes I will raise my voice. You must be the guy I hear about who ends up on the phone for 1 or more hours trying to get the problem resolved. I don't have that kind of time. If they show a willingness to problem solve and get me a viable solution, I'm peaches and cream.


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## kas25 (Mar 10, 2003)

feldon23 said:


> It is extremely unlikely that the TiVo Series 3 will have any LESS features than the TiVo Series 2.


It didn't think Series 2 could play videos, only pictures and music. I am looking to avoid buying a Series 3 PLUS and media extender to handle ripped dvds.


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## feldon23 (Mar 13, 2001)

Buy a $40 DVD player that plays DivX.


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## kas25 (Mar 10, 2003)

feldon23 said:


> Buy a $40 DVD player that plays DivX.


I have that but I wan them all on my hard drive so I can flip through (Tivo-like) a list of home movies, etc. I have Windows Media Center and there are several extenders out there but I'd prefer to have it all integrated with a tivo.


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## STL (Feb 10, 2005)

Good news and bad news:
http://www.engadget.com/2006/02/16/tivo-series-3-hd-dvr-in-beta/


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## jautor (Jul 1, 2001)

Actually, I think that's just good news... Not having an announced ship date, which we didn't have before, is just "no news"...

Jeff


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## TheRatPatrol (Feb 21, 2003)

Any idea how much they're going to be? 

How much is a lifetime subscription?

Will it work with OTA only without a subscription to cable?

Thanks.


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## jautor (Jul 1, 2001)

How much? Nope - my guess is at least initially, it won't be cheap - there's enough demand for this box that TiVo has no reason, IMO, to take a loss on every box...

Lifetime? Don't know, but probably the same as any other TiVo...

OTA only - absolutely it will work without cable TV. No question.


Jeff


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## feldon23 (Mar 13, 2001)

theratpatrol said:


> Any idea how much they're going to be?


Guess: $499-799



theratpatrol said:


> How much is a lifetime subscription?


Educated Guess: $299



theratpatrol said:


> Will it work with OTA only without a subscription to cable?


It will be fully functional as a standalone _or_ Cable TiVo, just no satellite (because TiVo has no choice).


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

499+299 lifetime for dual HD tuners isn't all that bad at this point. Unless you need 2


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## skofarrell (Sep 19, 2002)

or 3.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Lots of questions here about SA TiVos versus DirecTiVo's and the upcoming Series 3. 

I've never owned a stand-alone TiVo, but from reading the forums here, I understand that the amount of hard-disk space used and the quality of the recordings is a result of the quality setting (good, better, best) that is assigned in the To Do list when TiVo encodes the analog source. 

With the Series 3, I assume that digital channels will be recorded just like DirecTiVos, where any digital channel does not first have to be encoded, but is instead just saved straight to the drive? I guess that there would then be no "quality" settings when recording a digital channel, but the setting would still be there for recording analog channels? 

Reason I ask is Cablevision (of Hauppauge) still has over 70 analog channels, and only a handful of digital (non-premium) channels. The cable-cards are dirt-cheap ($1.45 a month), so I'd easily want to get two, but what kind of recording quality will I get with the analog channels? 

Does anyone have both SA TiVo and DirecTiVo who could tell me what setting you'd want on the SA box to watch a recording (of an analog channel) that would be closest in quality to a recording on a DirecTiVo? 

Thanks.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

drew2k said:


> Does anyone have both SA TiVo and DirecTiVo who could tell me what setting you'd want on the SA box to watch a recording (of an analog channel) that would be closest in quality to a recording on a DirecTiVo?
> 
> Thanks.


I have both.

I have my SA Tivo on medium quality and it seems to be as good as the D*Tivo.

I can't really see a difference between "Best" and "Medium" on the SA Tivo,
but the low quality looks like a 3rd generation EP VHS dub.
(that's bad if you didn't know  )

phox


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## feldon23 (Mar 13, 2001)

You definitely want at least *Medium* when recording. Fortunately the Series 3 TiVo will hopefully come with two 250GB internal and you can add a hard drive with the external SATA port.


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## kas25 (Mar 10, 2003)

Please let me know if you feel the series 3 will handle the following. I'm looking at media extenders but would LOVE to have it integrated with my HD Tivo. I can wait a few months if the general feeling is that the Series 3 will handle most, if not all, of these. 

1) Play mp3 files (hopefully showing album art)

2) ability to play mp3 files while at the same time searching for other mp3 files to play

3) Handle mp3 playlists

4) Play jpeg playlists while listening to mp3s in the background

5) Play the jpeg in HD

6)Play video files in MPEG 2 format. 

7) Play video files in VOB/IFO format

8) Create video playlists


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Thanks for the recording settings on analog channels folks .. I'll keep it in my mind for my future Series 3!


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## kas25 (Mar 10, 2003)

feldon23 said:


> You definitely want at least *Medium* when recording. Fortunately the Series 3 TiVo will hopefully come with two 250GB internal and you can add a hard drive with the external SATA port.


I don't recall setting the recording quality on my HD 250. Where is this done? thanks.


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## jcricket (Sep 11, 2002)

The HR10-250 doesn't have a recording quality setting. It records the digital MPEG2 bit-stream exactly as it comes in. 

The recording quality setting only applies to standalone (SA) Tivos which record cable or OTA broadcasts.


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

feldon23 said:


> You definitely want at least *Medium* when recording. Fortunately the Series 3 TiVo will hopefully come with two 250GB internal and you can add a hard drive with the external SATA port.


Everything I've read from CES says the S3 comes with a single 250GB internal. The external SATA they're selling is 350GB and can't be ported between boxes because the SATA is treated as part of a single drive and the files may be spanned across both drives. Theoretically, you should be able to add any size SATA drive though (within the technical limits - whatever those may be), so capacity can be increased to very large amounts.


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

feldon23 said:


> It is extremely unlikely that the TiVo Series 3 will have any LESS features than the TiVo Series 2.


On most features that appears to be true. Unfortunately, the news out of CES is that recordings can't be shared across a network. That would appear to be a step backward. Too bad because everything else about the box sounds promising.

I've never owned a SA Tivo, just and R10 and HR10-250. How does the speed of a S2 SA Tivo compare to DTivo's? Especially thinking of the grid guide and re-ordering of SP's. Is it pretty much the same?


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## kas25 (Mar 10, 2003)

Are there any Series 2 SA tivos that have component video and/or digital optical or coaxial audio?


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

kas25 said:


> Are there any Series 2 SA tivos that have component video and/or digital optical or coaxial audio?


I highly doubt it, the digital audio anyway, since you can't record anything that has digital audio with a SA Tivo.

DirecTV's R10 Tivo on the other had does indeed have a digital optical audio out (not sure on the component video though, guess I could look when I get home)

phox


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## kas25 (Mar 10, 2003)

phox_mulder said:


> I highly doubt it, the digital audio anyway, since you can't record anything that has digital audio with a SA Tivo.
> 
> DirecTV's R10 Tivo on the other had does indeed have a digital optical audio out (not sure on the component video though, guess I could look when I get home)
> 
> phox


Is the R10 series 1 or 2? I'm looking for series 2 but don't want to lose digital audio.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

eengert said:


> On most features that appears to be true. Unfortunately, the news out of CES is that recordings can't be shared across a network. That would appear to be a step backward. Too bad because everything else about the box sounds promising.
> 
> I've never owned a SA Tivo, just and R10 and HR10-250. How does the speed of a S2 SA Tivo compare to DTivo's? Especially thinking of the grid guide and re-ordering of SP's. Is it pretty much the same?


Actually I believe the news from CES was that you would be able to share series 3 to series 3, and series 2 to series 3, BUT from series 3 to series 2 ONLY HD content would work.

So in other words you cant move HD to an SD box as there is no easy way to have it converted to the proper format for the chipset in the SD boxes.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

kas25 said:


> Please let me know if you feel the series 3 will handle the following. I'm looking at media extenders but would LOVE to have it integrated with my HD Tivo. I can wait a few months if the general feeling is that the Series 3 will handle most, if not all, of these.
> 
> 1) Play mp3 files (hopefully showing album art)
> 
> ...


1) yes- album art maybe
2 yup- you can do that now if i understand what you mean
3) yes
4) I think YEs- dont know what a JPEG playlist is (you can show pictures and it can do slideshows based on folder contents)
5) I think yes- as above I dont know what a JPEG HD would be (but i have 5 megapixel pics on my SD series 2 tivo and resizes them for that so I would guess the HD version will resize for HD
6) yes
7) I dont believe so- they seem antsy about looking like they are breaking the the DVD encryption- but i wish you could. I think there are batch converters or the like though to get you vobs in mpeg'2 (or 4's that the series 3 will play so you can save disk space) 
8) i think that's likely...


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

MichaelK said:


> Actually I believe the news from CES was that you would be able to share series 3 to series 3, and series 2 to series 3, BUT from series 3 to series 2 ONLY HD content would work.
> 
> So in other words you cant move HD to an SD box as there is no easy way to have it converted to the proper format for the chipset in the SD boxes.


Not according to this article (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1908898,00.asp ) and several others I've read:

"_*Unlike the latest Series II TiVos, it will not allow programs to be transferred from one TiVo to another in a home. That's due in part to technical issues, explained a TiVo representative, but mostly because of unresolved DRM issues. The box will support downloaded content from the internet, which lets users acquire HD and SD movies and other programs via a broadband connection.*_"


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

eengert said:


> Not according to this article (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1908898,00.asp ) and several others I've read:
> 
> "_*Unlike the latest Series II TiVos, it will not allow programs to be transferred from one TiVo to another in a home. That's due in part to technical issues, explained a TiVo representative, but mostly because of unresolved DRM issues. The box will support downloaded content from the internet, which lets users acquire HD and SD movies and other programs via a broadband connection.*_"


interesting.

But I thought tivo got their DRM system cleared by the FCC? So what are the issues?

That would be a major downside- it would seriously make me think about getting them.

It wouldnt be the first time the press got something wrong.

this from someone who actaully spoke with tivo reps at CES- specifically in refernce to pcmag aarticle-

http://community.livejournal.com/tivolovers/tag/series3



> The article says this unit will not support MRV - but I was told by more than one TiVo rep that they do plan to support MRV, TTG, etc.


I wish tivo was in a position to speak but I guess well just need to wait 6 months to find out.


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

MichaelK said:


> interesting.
> 
> But I thought tivo got their DRM system cleared by the FCC? So what are the issues?
> 
> ...


Yeah, hopefully the PCMag article is wrong.


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

MichaelK said:


> Actually I believe the news from CES (...)


My impression of the news out of CES was that Tivo was still figuring out exactly how transfers and MRV would work (from their own stand-point ... but also from a CableLabs licensing stand-point).


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

MichaelK said:


> But I thought tivo got their DRM system cleared by the FCC?


For Broadcast Flag protection ...

CableLabs certification is a whole 'nother ball game.

Microsoft WMDRM got approved by the FCC for Broadcast Flag protection too. Took them a whole lot longer to (finally) get CableLabs approval ... and required some pretty big changes to do so.


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## Dssturbo1 (Feb 23, 2005)

theratpatrol said:


> How much is a lifetime subscription?
> 
> Thanks.


Tivo announced it will no longer offer lifetime subscriptions.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

I think you have until wednesday


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## Dssturbo1 (Feb 23, 2005)

yes, if you already have a tivo and want to upgrade to lifetime or have just bought one and need to buy that before they stop it. 

But I was mentioning with the reference to the series 3 since this thread was about the series 3, the lifetime that people had hoped for would not be available since Tivo has decided not to offer it at all (maybe a few special exceptions for dead units or warranty swaps).


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## feldon23 (Mar 13, 2001)

kas25 said:


> Is the R10 series 1 or 2? I'm looking for series 2 but don't want to lose digital audio.


*Edit: The R10, while internally a "series 2" DirecTV TiVo, does not have any of the series 2 functionality switched on.*

There is no _official_ way to get Series 2 functionality AND digital audio.

Unofficially, you can get the 6.x or 7.x software running on almost all of the DirecTV TiVos with USB ports. Then you get all the Series 2 features (JPEG viewer, mp3 player, multi-room viewing) on your DirecTV TiVo. Check out the Underground forum here at TiVoCommunity.com.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

feldon23 said:


> The R10 is not a TiVo.


Technically it isn't a "Tivo", but it is a DirecTV Tivo.

phox


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## feldon23 (Mar 13, 2001)

....


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

feldon23 said:


> It is *NOT* a TiVo!
> 
> It is a DirecTV DVR.


It has TIVO software and the little TiVo guy on the front of it, as well as on the menu screens and it records Tivo suggestions unless you turn that feature off.

You might be thinking of the R20, which is DirecTV's non Tivo replacement for the R10?
(or is that the R15?)

phox


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## feldon23 (Mar 13, 2001)

Sorry.

I have edited my original post.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

feldon23 said:


> I'm sorry.


Phew!, after I posted I thought, crap, what if I'm thinking of another box.

Had to double check that mine was indeed an R10, and it was.

phox


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## jcricket (Sep 11, 2002)

phox_mulder said:


> It has TIVO software and the little TiVo guy on the front of it, as well as on the menu screens and it records Tivo suggestions unless you turn that feature off.
> 
> You might be thinking of the R20, which is DirecTV's non Tivo replacement for the R10?
> (or is that the R15?)


The R10 is built by Hughes and has Tivo software on it. It's a Tivo as much as any of the other DirecTV DVR's with Tivo are. It has many of the same features (but not HMO + MRV) as standalone Tivos. It can only record DirecTV broadcasts. The HR10 is a high-definition DVR with Tivo software on it that can record OTA ATSC + DirecTV satellite (MPG2) broadcasts.

The R15 is a standard definition DVR made by NDS (not sure who makes the hardware), which is owned by News Corp, the same company that now owns DirecTV. It has no Tivo software on it. The forthcoming R20 is a high definition DVR made by NDS, which can record OTA ATSC + DirecTV satellite (MPG2 + MPG4) broadcasts. It also has no Tivo software on it.

The H10 and H20 are DirecTV receivers with no DVR. The H20 can *receive* MPG4 and MPG2 DirecTV broadcasts, but not record anything.

The Series 3 is a standalone box made by Tivo with support for OTA ATSC and recording of standard and high-definition digital cable signals via "CableCards". This box should be released this year. You buy this box from Tivo or some other retailer.

Comcast also rents/leases customers a Motorola-built DVR (the 6842?) which will have Tivo software on it at some point this year. At that point that box will be analagous to the DirecTV HR10 (in terms of how much it is a Tivo), except that it only records SD and HD cable broadcasts (no OTA ATSC)


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

dt_dc said:


> For Broadcast Flag protection ...
> 
> CableLabs certification is a whole 'nother ball game.
> 
> Microsoft WMDRM got approved by the FCC for Broadcast Flag protection too. Took them a whole lot longer to (finally) get CableLabs approval ... and required some pretty big changes to do so.


ahhhhh.....

seccond time today you enlightened me...

That makes sense. Evil cable holding them up....


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

MichaelK said:


> Evil cable holding them up....


In all fairness ...

Cable has to deal with studios and networks on the other end ...

If people figure out a way to easily start uploading and sharing perfect digital copies from cable of, say, HBO-HD or OnDemand or NBA Full Court Press etc ... or at least, just easier than can be done from dbs or telcos or other providers ...

If this can be done in a way cable can't control or revoke or de-activate or watermark ...

How long before cable has to face the prospect of certain content being unavailable (or at least more expensive for them to get) which is available to their competitors (or at least cheaper for their competitors) ... putting them at a competitive disadvantage vs. their competitors?

I'm certainly not saying all the hoops CableLabs puts people through is justified ...

But ... in some cases they do have some pretty good reasons for it.

In the end ... everyone just wants to make $$$ ... nothing evil (or good) about it.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

dt_dc said:


> In all fairness ...
> 
> Cable has to deal with studios and networks on the other end ...
> 
> ...


I'm no tree hugger and have no beef with capitalism. (scummy barely regulated monopolies are another issue-LOL). Also, I have no issue with them needing DRM. But if the tivo DRM was deemed sufficient by the FCC then I think it should be sufficient for cable. If I was cable- in fact I would insist on that. If cable labs force a DRM system of there own and it gets cracked then people can point fingers. If they just throw up there hands and say any system approved by the FCC is good then they get out of the crossfire.


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## b3ar (Dec 2, 2005)

MichaelK said:


> But if the tivo DRM was deemed sufficient by the FCC


The FCC does not certify DRM systems. They ended up trying to specify a light one (Broadcast Flag), but that has not yet gone through. Instead, there are various industry groups that license the underlying intellectual property for most encryption schemes, e.g., DTCP, LLC; AACS-LA; CableLabs.

Later,
Bill


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## Sirshagg (Dec 27, 2001)

MichaelK said:


> Actually I believe the news from CES was that you would be able to share series 3 to series 3, and series 2 to series 3, BUT from series 3 to series 2 ONLY HD content would work.
> 
> So in other words you cant move HD to an SD box as there is no easy way to have it converted to the proper format for the chipset in the SD boxes.


Is there anything official out there on this?


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

MichaelK said:


> Actually I believe the news from CES was that you would be able to share series 3 to series 3, and series 2 to series 3, BUT from series 3 to series 2 ONLY *HD* content would work.
> 
> So in other words you cant move HD to an SD box as there is no easy way to have it converted to the proper format for the chipset in the SD boxes.


You have a typo in there??


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## Sirshagg (Dec 27, 2001)

that's how it was in the original post. I assumed the OP meant SD.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

yup meant SD- sorry


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

b3ar said:


> The FCC does not certify DRM systems. They ended up trying to specify a light one (Broadcast Flag), but that has not yet gone through. Instead, there are various industry groups that license the underlying intellectual property for most encryption schemes, e.g., DTCP, LLC; AACS-LA; CableLabs.
> 
> Later,
> 
> Bill


I might be confused with the actual terms and all- but it seems clear that the FCC gives yay or nay to DRm schemes in order to ensure they comply with the flag. I think the technical term for what they approved is "digital output protection technologies"

Well at least they did when the flag regulation existed- but it was overturned by the courts on the grounds that congress had not given the fcc the power to regulate flags and drm, etc. - I am going on the assumption that congress will eventually either legislate the FCC's earlier flag rulings or give the fcc the power to promulgate the rules again and they will come to a similar conclusion.

TV Week Article august 2004 - TiVoGuard Gets the OK; FCC Approves Copy-Transfer Technology

there's all kinds of threads here about it around that time period if you search. I couldn't find a goulg one that encompasses the whole hting, but i'm a bit busy here at work now...


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## mnylen (Feb 11, 2003)

feldon23 said:


> Guess: $499-799
> 
> Educated Guess: $299
> 
> It will be fully functional as a standalone _or_ Cable TiVo, just no satellite (because TiVo has no choice).


 So it will not work with Directv???


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

mnylen said:


> So it will not work with Directv???


Nope.
(Various reasons for that, but bottom line it no, it won't work with DirecTV)


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## feldon23 (Mar 13, 2001)

mnylen said:


> So it will not work with Directv???


DirecTV slammed the door on TiVo. TiVo is not allowed to develop new DirecTV hardware even if it wanted to.

If you are on DirecTV, you can use the DirecTV HDTV TiVo as documented in the HDTV TiVo receivers forum, but it does not record any of the new MPEG-4 channels. Or you can wait for DirecTV's replacement for the TiVo. It's a new box designed by NDS. It does not have the full functionality and ease-of-use of TiVo.


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## jscozz (Sep 28, 2002)

Sorry if this has been discussed somewhere else (I could not find it via search)... is there any word as to whether the Series 3 will support all the same home network functionality as the stand alone (non DTV) series 2? Or does everyone feel that the series 3 will have all that the series 2 has and more (HD, cable card, etc.)?


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Series 3 is supposed to support MRV, HMO, TTG, etc. Still unknown is if it will support MRV for HD shows. It would be a shame if it didn't, since I'd far prefer to use four tuners for HD.

But I have 2 HD TV's, so I'll need 2 Series 3 HD Tivo's in any case.


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

If it's recording the already-digital HD sreams, would it even have a quality setting? The DTiVos that record the digital stream coming off the sats have no such setting.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Fleegle said:


> If it's recording the already-digital HD sreams, would it even have a quality setting? The DTiVos that record the digital stream coming off the sats have no such setting.


For analog channels (cable still has a bunch of these), it will support a quality setting. For HD (OTA and cable) and digital SD channels, it will just record the stream.


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