# Tivo coming to Australia! Will it work here?



## merlin (Jul 22, 2002)

As Australia is PAL could the new Australian Tivo work within the UK? Could be something to think about......


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

My understanding was that the video standards issue is fairly trivial. The problems are the format of the EPG database and the fact that you can't subscribe a non UK serial number in the UK.
I'd love it to work but my gut feeling is it is very very unlikely.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

For now...


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## merlin (Jul 22, 2002)

blindlemon said:


> For now...


So Maybe a slight chance we can get this to work....


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## b166er (Oct 24, 2003)

AMc said:


> My understanding was that the video standards issue is fairly trivial. The problems are the format of the EPG database and the fact that you can't subscribe a non UK serial number in the UK.
> I'd love it to work but my gut feeling is it is very very unlikely.


If that is all the issue is, then it would sound like it's relatively simple to just allow non UK serial numbers to register. If there's a technical problem with the EPG being able to work on a newer TiVo (S2 or S3), I'm sure there's sufficient demand here that somebody would put in the effort to make it work. Kind of like asking TiVo UK "_please let us register the newer devices, we'll make the EPG work ourselves_"...


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

Unless off-the-shelf TiVo's can be sold in volume within the UK, I doubt that TiVo Inc. would open up the UK service again. In the end, it always come down to finding a UK manufacturer who can produce and market in volume quantity.


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## CarlWalters (Oct 17, 2001)

blindlemon said:


> For now...


Oooh you big tease


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Not at all 

I am still firmly of the opinion that it's not a matter of "if" but of "when" a new TiVo will be introduced to the UK. The introduction of TiVo service to Australia and NZ is an excellent indication that TiVo Inc are still keen to expand abroad, and the fact that the technical platform in those countries is almost identical to the UK is very good news indeed! 

Clearly, once TiVo service has been introduced to Aus & NZ, it will pretty much just be a matter of updating the UK TiVo servers to accept new serial numbers from those machines and to serve our guide data in the format required for the new software version (most of which will have to be done as new development for Aus & NZ anyway) to allow them to be used in the UK. 

Whether we get a "new" machine of our own or a rebadged Aus/NZ model with a few tweaks makes no difference to me!


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## b166er (Oct 24, 2003)

blindlemon said:


> Clearly it will pretty much just be a matter of updating the UK TiVo servers to accept new serial numbers from those machines and to serve our guide data in the format required for the new software version (most of which will have to be done as new development for Aus & NZ anyway) to allow them to be used in the UK.


Wow, what I said was actually right.   As I added though, if the cost of the reformatting development work was the biggest impediment to being able to use the new hardware, I bet there's enough motivation here to get the job done amongst the programmers here.

Shame TiVo can't do a poll via the TiVo service as a new menu item where you just select whether or not you'd be interested in upgrading to a newer device at cost. Doing one on here is interesting but I'm sure the vast majority of the 30,000 or so TiVo owners don't come here.


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## DX30 (May 22, 2005)

merlin said:


> As Australia is PAL could the new Australian Tivo work within the UK? Could be something to think about......


Australia does use PAL for analogue but from the somewhat sketchy details available it looks like the machine Seven are talking about is terrestrial digital, and high definition at that.

Unfortunately while Australia do use DVB-T there are differences between it an the DVB-T system used in the UK. The likely HD route in the UK will be MPEG-4, not something likely to be supported in a machine targeted at the Australian market. It's likely the hardware will be capable of handling UK Freeview SD broadcasts, but the firmware will need modified if the machine is to support UK features such as MHEG digital text.

It seems unlikely to me that the Seven Network, who are after all a broadcaster not a manufacturer, are likely to be interested in entering the UK market. So TiVo would still be looking for a UK partner.

While the fact TiVo are still interested in the international market is encouraging I don't think we'll see this particular machine in the UK.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

So is the Australian TiVo a Series 3? DX30's post suggests it is (HDTV).

How hackable are the Series 3 machines?

I'm thinking: "Be careful what you wish for".


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

I could guess the hardware is based on the Series 3 platform, modified to meet Australia's TV and power standards, including antenna and video connectors.
Or it could be a ground up new design for Seven.

Since Series 2.5s (the 540 models), TiVos required a PROM Mod to hack. I don't know what the state of the art is in TiVo hacking at all, let alone Series 3 hacks.


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## TonyW (Mar 26, 2001)

A service in Aus/NZ does sound positive, if only that TiVo haven't forgotten there are other markets out there. But it would be great if we could import.
While I understand the Australian HD format will be slightly different, what about 'normal' non-HD digital broadcasts?


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## TIVO_YORK99 (Feb 14, 2001)

A bit more information about the Aussie Tivo :

http://www.itwire.com/content/view/14429/532/


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TIVO_YORK99 said:


> A bit more information about the Aussie Tivo :
> 
> http://www.itwire.com/content/view/14429/532/


So will you even have to pay for the Free Tv EPG for the Tivo then? It doesn't seem obvious that you will from the article.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

I guess Australian customers will be paying for the TiVo 'service' via their cable supplier as some sort of add-on package. Where the actual EPG data comes from is immaterial (and always has been legally) - it's the 'service' we're paying for. It just happens that in the UK (and for standalone machines in the US) the service is not available (legally) without using TiVo's EPG data. 

Did that make any sense? I thought it did before I wrote it


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> Did that make any sense? I thought it did before I wrote it


From the Australian website:-



> Unlike the TiVo HD,* Australian TiVos won't work with cable television*


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

I was using 'cable' as a generic term for pay-TV providers - sorry.

Seven Network will be providing the TiVo - it won't be a stand-alone device in the way the UK and early US TiVos were.



> Seven will sell TiVo in Australia next year through engin, to be available before the Beijing Olympics in August.


So, what makes you assume they will be providing 'the service' for free?

A more interesting question than nit-picking about the definition of 'cable supplier' would be to wonder what will happen to the thousands of TiVo users in Australia currently using the OzTiVo guide data system?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> So, what makes you assume they will be providing 'the service' for free?
> 
> A more interesting question than nit-picking about the definition of 'cable supplier' would be to wonder what will happen to the thousands of TiVo users in Australia currently using the OzTiVo guide data system?


Are Seven a satellite pay tv provider then?

Assuming that they charge subscriptions I would imagine Tivo will be provided free of charge (or at least free of any extra specific Tivo charge) to those on their new expensive HD top channel package as a way of giving them a competitive edge in the marktplace and to give people even more reason to pay the no doubt very expensive charges for their HD and DVR top pay tv package.

Of course Tivo won't really be free as the monthly subs for the pay HDTV service will be covering it but it will appear Seven are giving their customers the best DVR in the world for no extra charge if they package it the way that seems most likely.

Now if only Virgin Media had such vision, instead of only looking short term at numbers on balance sheets, then perhaps they might have been able to gain a huge competitive edge over Sky as the must have best HD and PVR service in the marketplace.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

<WAKA> <WAKA> <WAKA>

^ Thread drift alarm.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ColinYounger said:


> <WAKA> <WAKA> <WAKA>
> 
> ^ Thread drift alarm.


Still seems to be about Tivo coming to Australia and whether it might therefore also come here to the UK so far as I can tell.

What's a WAKA by the way Colin? I do hope its nothing offensive.


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## PaulWilkinsUK (Mar 20, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Still seems to be about Tivo coming to Australia and whether it might therefore also come here to the UK so far as I can tell.
> 
> What's a WAKA by the way Colin? I do hope its nothing offensive.


Same as 
<Whoooo> <Whoooo> <Whoooo>
I would imagine !!


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## BrianHughes (Jan 21, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> Are Seven a satellite pay tv provider then?
> ...


No, they are a "normal" terrestrial company.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

BrianHughes said:


> No, they are a "normal" terrestrial company.


Do they have pay tv services on terrestrial then?

If not how will Tivo's subscription based model operate successfully if Seven viewers are not used to paying subscriptions to view the service.

If there are no subscriptions how can Tivo make any money as the cost of the hardware nearly all goes to the manufacturer and the shop that sells the box.......................

I don't think you can really do modern sirens as words whereas the previous versions were easily done as NEE-NAW-NEE-NAW-NEE-NAW etc...............


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Still seems to be about Tivo coming to Australia and whether it might therefore also come here to the UK so far as I can tell.


No it's not - you're trying to

a) find out about Channel7. Google is your friend.
b) Worrying about the profitability for Australians. So what?

and as usual:

c) adding your own rants (VM, HDTV, the injustice of it all).

Adding an 'on topic' final sentence ("but back on topic...") doesn't do it for me and I consider it bad form.

I'm in a bad mood, so here's the rub:

It's the internets: no-one cares what you think.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

PaulWilkinsUK said:


> <Whoooo> <Whoooo> <Whoooo>


Yup, but LOUDER.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ColinYounger said:


> It's the internets: no-one cares what you think.


In which case it seems strange that YouTube and most of the world's governments (especially the Chinese one) spend so much time trying to control the content that you can access on it.

As to Seven they are the people bringing the Tivo to Australia in partnership with Tivo are they not. Just how much more on topic can you get.

I didn't realise we should rename you Dr Jekyll and Mr Colin Hyde.


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## sfalvey (Feb 26, 2004)

I recently made the move from the UK to Oz. Thought it might help if I explain how the TV system works here..... or at least the amount of it I have figured out.  

Analogue and Digital TV: All free but very limited. Broadcast on UHF and VHF at least for the Sydney area.

Seven, Nine, Ten, ABC, SBS plus a few other secondaries (for digital) like ABC2 and SBS2 plus transmissions of Federal Parliament etc. Now and Next available for free. Choice of longer duration EPG available at a cost e.g. for Topfield service. Some channels like 7 and 9 use a channel to display rolling program schedule info but dont confuse this with an EPG. There are no interactive elements to DVB-T no press red or any of that stuff. I understand that there is a rule about limiting the channels to one per multiplex as well but I am not too clear on the details but this is why the choice is very limited.

Pay TV either via cable or Sat is foxtel in the urban areas Austar (sat) retransmit foxtel in rural areas. Foxtel via cable is the same as via sat.: They retransmit the DVB-T channels including 7 days+ EPG in a format that looks almost identical to SKY, even the remote control is the same. Channel 7 refused to allow their copyright program information to be sent out via the EPG and so although foxtel re-transmit the analogue version of 7 they do not carry any EPG program info for that channel.

There is no option to retain foxtel just for the "free" channels. If you stop subscribing you have to return the box. Terrestrial channel are rebroadcast on a different free sat service but you are only allowed to use this if you can prove you cannot receive it via a rooftop antenna.

The Ozzie way of doing things is to provide basic for free/cheap and anything else you pay quite a lot for. This goes not only through the telly but almost everything else you buy like cars for instance.

HiDef programming is only available on the DVB-T platform and is not available on either the cable or sat versions of foxtel.

Since Channel 7 really have issues with foxtel its highly likely that the TiVo service being backed by them will not integrate with the foxtel service. Although nothing definitive stating this has come out to my knowledge.

Cheers

S


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Have you also become an OzTivo hacker with your existing UK Tivo S1 box?


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## mrtickle (Aug 26, 2001)

Interesting post!



sfalvey said:


> There is no option to retain foxtel just for the "free" channels. If you stop subscribing you have to return the box.


Fair enough I suppose, and it's a different model to Sky.



sfalvey said:


> Terrestrial channel are rebroadcast on a different free sat service but you are only allowed to use this if you can prove you cannot receive it via a rooftop antenna.


That however, I find absolutely appalling! Satellite distribution is so much cheaper than terrestrial. What a nasty little monopoly. What proof is required; do you know if they look up databases like our DTT "postcode predictor", or do you have to hold a demonstration in your house to satisfy an inspector?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mrtickle said:


> Fair enough I suppose, and it's a different model to Sky.


Same return the equipment and lose the service completely model as Virgin Media though.



> That however, I find absolutely appalling! Satellite distribution is so much cheaper than terrestrial. What a nasty little monopoly. What proof is required; do you know if they look up databases like our DTT "postcode predictor", or do you have to hold a demonstration in your house to satisfy an inspector?


I can't see how they can enforce this unless they encrypt the Freesat transmission on an FTV basis and you have to have a valid FTV viewing card to watch them though.

As to it being appalling I also find it appalling that OfCoN in the UK requires me to buy a POTS telephone service at £11 per month minimum in order to also have a broadband service on the same piece of copper wire but that is the cosy little protection deal for BT's entrenched monopoly outside urban areas that they have agreed to.


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## mrtickle (Aug 26, 2001)

Oh I agree that they're both appalling. It was particularly egregious of BT to then ramp up the minimum cost of the line rental, _and_ remove the inclusive calls, _and_ force everyone onto BT Together taking the cost from £9.50/mon (with £2.15 worth of free calls) in 2004 to £11/mon (with no free calls) now. A 33% increase! I get my revenge as best as I can; free Caller Display+1571, being ultra careful to make the required 2 calls per month and no more. All others are via 1899/18185.


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## sfalvey (Feb 26, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> Have you also become an OzTivo hacker with your existing UK Tivo S1 box?


I am still waiting for my gear to arrive from the UK but yes. I have already been reading up on the "service" out here. Did you know they have a hardware hack to install a second STB via an added in set of phono connections rather than using an RF signal. Pretty neat but a little off topic.



mrtickle said:


> What proof is required; do you know if they look up databases like our DTT "postcode predictor", or do you have to hold a demonstration in your house to satisfy an inspector?


I think that you have to have a visit from an antenna installer or something more info is here Out of area reception Its the $1200-$2000 charge for the installation service that gets me! You have to remember just house huge and sparsely populated Oz is. Larger than north America, less than a third of the number of people than the UK. Very large areas are cannot receive any RF signals. Why should the government subsidise TV reception for remote locations?

No idea how the enforcement is done but lets face it if you pay the cost and live out in the bush you are probably unlikely to be moving to a large enough town that would have its own transmitter.



pete77 said:


> As to it being appalling I also find it appalling that OfCoN in the UK requires me to buy a POTS telephone service at £11 per month minimum in order to also have a broadband service on the same piece of copper wire but that is the cosy little protection deal for BT's entrenched monopoly outside urban areas that they have agreed to.


Well in Oz you can get "naked" ADSL2 its just rolling out. No dial tone but they charge extra on top of the ADSL2 charge to have it although not as much as for the regular dial tone.

But anyway all this digresses from the topic. Australia is likely to be quite a good place to launch TiVo as there are a limited number of competitors on DVB-T and most of them already charge. Most of these competitors cannot carry EPG information for all channels just the ones they have partnership with. Foxtel IQ (SKY+) also charges unless you pay for the top tier package with all premium channels.

All TiVo need to do here to win is:
- continue explain why PVRs are a good idea 
- Get all the Free channels to agree to share schedule info for an EPG
- show how much better than a regular PVR TiVo really is

an added bonus would be to work with Foxtel.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mrtickle said:


> Oh I agree that they're both appalling. It was particularly egregious of BT to then ramp up the minimum cost of the line rental, _and_ remove the inclusive calls, _and_ force everyone onto BT Together taking the cost from £9.50/mon (with £2.15 worth of free calls) in 2004 to £11/mon (with no free calls) now. A 33% increase! I get my revenge as best as I can; free Caller Display+1571, being ultra careful to make the required 2 calls per month and no more. All others are via 1899/18185.


Well I went to the Post Office Homephone for the £50 cashback a year or so ago and unlike TalkTalk the PostOffice does not block the use of 18185 or other prefix code call providers. I was going to move back to BT but BT told me there was a 90 day minimum contract period but since then they have made it a 1 year minimum contract for going back to them when they incur precisely no costs in reacquiring you. The Post Office now provide free evening and weekend calls for only 75p a month more than BT Option 1 including Caller Display cost and they have 0800 customer service in the UK and are tolerably run. So why should BT Retail get my line rental business back. Of course BT Wholesale/Openreach still have my business though...............

If Three come up with a better 3G data card offer with more data than 7Gb and scrap the ludicrous £100 per Gb charge for exceeding the 7Gb data cap in favour of something sane like £5 per Gb then I may consider ditching the BT line as I do now have a strong Three 3G signal in this area.

In theory WiMax is also supposed to be coming along one day but seems to be taking forever to actually happen so perhaps there is some fundamental technical stumbling block to getting it working.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

sfalvey said:


> But anyway all this digresses from the topic. Australia is likely to be quite a good place to launch TiVo as there are a limited number of competitors on DVB-T and most of them already charge. Most of these competitors cannot carry EPG information for all channels just the ones they have partnership with. Foxtel IQ (SKY+) also charges unless you pay for the top tier package with all premium channels.
> 
> All TiVo need to do here to win is:
> - continue explain why PVRs are a good idea
> ...


The bit I don't get though is the small number of potential customers in Australia and NZ for Tivo though. Tivo's model is a high cost one so I can't see how they can make the service pay in Australia (never mind NZ) with so few potential customers in total.

If you were Tivo then China and especially India have to look like far more attractive propositions in terms of number of customers that can be served in a single language with a single product manual from a single language customer service centre for that country.


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

Pete77 said:


> The bit I don't get though is the small number of potential customers in Australia and NZ for Tivo though. Tivo's model is a high cost one so I can't see how they can make the service pay in Australia (never mind NZ) with so few potential customers in total.


I don't think that it costs TiVo that much to run a service, and that is probably why we still have one in this country.

The limitation, as I understand it, has always been finding a manufacturer who is willing to support it. In this country, no manufacturer wanted to follow the path of Thomson. In Oz, the manufacturers can probably afford to test the waters with a smaller market; especially when they they feel less threatened by the competition.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

iankb said:


> I don't think that it costs TiVo that much to run a service, and that is probably why we still have one in this country.


Well we still have a service but not one that is any longer up to much now that Tribune have clearly been told this is a legacy product and to make the minimum possible level of effort with the EPG data. Of course they may annoy existing customers who still pay for service (they obviously don't care about Lifetime customers who aren't paying anything now) but then having worked in a company with Legacy data services I know that decline to a point where the service is no longer economically viable is always regarded as being inevitable so no one is that bothered at a board level.



> The limitation, as I understand it, has always been finding a manufacturer who is willing to support it. In this country, no manufacturer wanted to follow the path of Thomson. In Oz, the manufacturers can probably afford to test the waters with a smaller market; especially when they they feel less threatened by the competition.


OK but we now also have the software only model that VirginMedia could use if they could perceive the need to offer a better quality product than Sky to improve their market position. The main difference in Oz is probably that the Murdochs don't enjoy the bovver boy level of dominance of the tv marketplace that they enjoy over here and also abused to stamp on Tivo during their previous marketing efforts in the UK.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Well we still have a service but not one that is any longer up to much now that Tribune have clearly been told this is a legacy product and to make the minimum possible level of effort with the EPG data.


I've not seen any real evidence of that. If you look back through the archive you'll find people complaining about guide data quality from day one.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> I've not seen any real evidence of that. If you look back through the archive you'll find people complaining about guide data quality from day one.


The failure to support a large number of recently launched Freesat channels is clearly a cost cutting move. Tribune blame this on the channels concerned but in several case they are being at best economical with the truth. If these channels produce a schedule for not only Sky but also Digiguide then why they would not agree to also supply it to Tribune. I know that Zone are willing to provide Zone Romantica data and Tribune already cover the other Zone channels on Tivo but still the matter has not been resolved.

There have been several major link breakages reported in Season Passes for popular programs reported in the last month. As you don't use Tivo as your primary recording source any longer then perhaps you are unaware of these.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> The failure to support a large number of recently launched Freesat channels is clearly a cost cutting move. Tribune blame this on the channels concerned but in several case they are being at best economical with the truth. If these channels produce a schedule for not only Sky but also Digiguide then why they would not agree to also supply it to Tribune. I know that Zone are willing to provide Zone Romantica data and Tribune already cover the other Zone channels on Tivo but still the matter has not been resolved.


You'll find plenty of very similar complaints about minority channels going back the full seven years, where listings exist but were not available for TiVo.

It may be worse than it was, but I see no hard evidence of that and there are a lot more channels now than there were then.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> You'll find plenty of very similar complaints about minority channels going back the full seven years, where listings exist but were not available for TiVo.
> 
> It may be worse than it was, but I see no hard evidence of that and there are a lot more channels now than there were then.


I get the impression that data for all subscription Sky channels that Sky collects the subscription for are actually supplied to Tribune by Sky en bloc so involve no extra work for Tribune other than possibly the MetaData addition.

By contrast they have to get other data directly from the supplier in differing formats for non subscription channels and while they are aware they have to do this for BBC, C4 and Five they now seem reluctant to do it for other organisations. However several of the other Freesat channels that have been going many years do have Tivo listings but almost any Freesat channel launched in the last three years but not from the BBC, ITV, C4 or Five does not.

No one bothers too much about news channels as one watches them live on the whole but it does get annoying if new Freesat film or documentary channels are not included in the Tivo listings.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> I get the impression that data for all subscription Sky channels that Sky collects the subscription for are actually supplied to Tribune by Sky en bloc so involve no extra work for Tribune other than possibly the MetaData addition.


I don't believe that's true, though Ozsat may be able enlighten us.

Adding the metadata is of course the important bit!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> I don't believe that's true, though Ozsat may be able enlighten us.
> 
> Adding the metadata is of course the important bit!


Ken who runs the European Tribune Tivo data operation gave me the response "who was going to pay for it" when I last asked about the non Sky subscription channels.

That was what gave me the impression that getting a data feed on all the Sky subscription channels probably involved a lot less work than on standalone channels on Astra or Hotbird. Of course Sky does still have EPG data for those channels though in its own EPG but no doubt it doesn't want to do anything that helps promote viewers watching Freesat channels rather than it subscription range of channels.

I suspect Sky does a block cheaper deal on the EPG data for Sky subscription channels as a method of marketing them to further likely subscribers.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

It's own EPG runs a week ahead and is, IIRC, entered directly onto the system by the channels themselves, rather than Sky acting as a clearing house.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> It's own EPG runs a week ahead and is, IIRC, entered directly onto the system by the channels themselves, rather than Sky acting as a clearing house.


Still nothing though to stop Sky selling the agglomerated data entered by each channel as a complete EPG feed to a third party though depending on the terms and conditions of Sky's EPG contract with each channel providing the data. It would be typical of Sky to get the channels to provide them the data for nothing then charge the channels for being in the EPG and to then make a profits selling the finished valued added EPG service elsewhere.


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## mrtickle (Aug 26, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> It would be typical of Sky to get the channels to provide them the data for nothing then charge the channels for being in the EPG and to then make a profits selling the finished valued added EPG service elsewhere.


Some of that's already happening! The broadcasters have to pay Sky to appear in the EPG, also their own costs to upload the EPG data and finally I believe there are aslo fines they have to pay if the EPG data is wrong.

The fines work and are the way to improve things: when the Queen Mother died and the schedules were in utter chaos, I checked TiVo, Digiguide, BBCi, Ceefax, the BBC website and the Sky EPG. The Sky EPG was consistently correct (that didn't surprise me) and all the others were wrong (the 3 BBC sources being wrong did surprise me - since the same sources allegedly feed the BBC's uplink to the EPG).


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

mrtickle said:


> The fines work and are the way to improve things: when the Queen Mother died and the schedules were in utter chaos, I checked TiVo, Digiguide, BBCi, Ceefax, the BBC website and the Sky EPG. The Sky EPG was consistently correct (that didn't surprise me) and all the others were wrong (the 3 BBC sources being wrong did surprise me - since the same sources allegedly feed the BBC's uplink to the EPG).


My understanding is that the Sky EPG is updated live by the playout area, downstream even of the EPG unit. (The DTT EPG used not to be as dynamic because of the data distribution system originally implemented - but I believe has been upgraded with the launch of Freeview Playback and now offers similar updates to the BBC implementation of the Sky EPG)

However ISTR that some/all of the BBC listings (CEEFAX, BBCi, bbc.co.uk etc.) weren't fed directly by the EPG unit - but were linked to the PA listings operation (a wire service) instead, which would be more latent... I may be wrong about this now.


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## mrtickle (Aug 26, 2001)

Thanks for the info - that would certainly explain the inconsistency within the BBC!


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