# "reached orbit but hasn't become operational yet..."



## restino (Oct 25, 2006)

"reached orbit but hasn't become operational yet..."

(please, NO directv service reps need reply with their propaganda  on this thread - its your statements that we are talking about  )

does anyone find these comments aweful forward thinking and overly hopeful? i mean, why not wait until they get it all done. they are risking pissing off their customers. think of what happens if something doesn't work.

what company in their right mind has their customer service reps, tv ads and website tell people that a new service is coming, given the obvious complications of deploying a sat, and that its almost here, even though they are just getting the sat tested? no thanks. i won't be using vista anytime soon for the same reason.

everyone needs a new dish, new b-band convertors, new boxes, hope they have the system fully worked out, which they don't and they probably never will lol given their crappy HR20 software containted in a simple non-orbiting box hehe, etc, etc.

and YES, it is a very complicated process to get sats up and an entire new system working and programmed. if you don't realize this then think about it a bit longer.

i find it amazing that they are pushing so hard before all this is already up, tested, debugged and running. i'm going to LMAO if they have a total failure somehow hehe.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Considering they currently are testing it with 80 feeds of HD video, I'd say it's going pretty well.

I do agree there were some substantial risks of their ad campaign running before the satellite had even launched, let alone was operational, but DirecTV was also facing some serious competitive issues and they apparently felt the risks were worth the opportunity to get people to choose to wait rather than jump on other services.


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## joelq (Oct 9, 2006)

restino said:


> "reached orbit but hasn't become operational yet..."
> 
> (please, NO directv service reps need reply with their propaganda  on this thread - its your statements that we are talking about  )
> 
> ...


LOL! Your ignorance makes it clear that you've obviously never been involved in the implementation and marketing launch of a new product or service. Software companies, car companies, consumer electronics companies, etc typically announce their products months ahead of time, even though they know there's a risk the schedules may slip. Apple may be the only large company that announces products the day they are available, but they're definitely in the minority.

The bigger question in my mind is, though - just exactly WHY are you SO upset and almost wishing failure on DirecTV? There's something behind this, I just know it. Somebody poke a stick in your anthill? LOL!


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## joelq (Oct 9, 2006)

dswallow said:


> Considering they currently are testing it with 80 feeds of HD video, I'd say it's going pretty well.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think the actual HD video feeds were available yet, in engineering/testing mode or otherwise. From what I've read, all that's available are guide placeholders for the new channels, but no video yet.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

joelq said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think the actual HD video feeds were available yet, in engineering/testing mode or otherwise. From what I've read, all that's available are guide placeholders for the new channels, but no video yet.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=364286


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## joelq (Oct 9, 2006)

dswallow said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=364286


Thanks, Doug. I did see that thread, as well as the original thread at AVSForum, but my interpretation was that the channels were merely on the guide in engineering mode and that there was no programming being transmitted yet. But I could be wrong.

Either way, I _do_ think they are real close and (back to the OP's point), if DirecTV were thinking they'd slip, they probably wouldn't be ramping up the marketing as it appears they've done the last few days.


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## narrod (Nov 23, 2002)

If you've ever been in sales you will understand that if you don't have what the customers wants tell them what you are going to have. Think of a preacher telling his flock how good things are going to be in the promised land.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

restino said:


> i'm going to LMAO if they have a total failure somehow hehe.


It seems assured your butt will stay firmly attached and if you laugh you'll laugh alone.


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## restino (Oct 25, 2006)

joelq said:


> LOL! Your ignorance makes it clear that you've obviously never been involved in the implementation and marketing launch of a new product or service. Software companies, car companies, consumer electronics companies, etc typically announce their products months ahead of time, even though they know there's a risk the schedules may slip. Apple may be the only large company that announces products the day they are available, but they're definitely in the minority.


you are trying to create a reality that doesn't exist. even microsoft didn't sell you computers without operating systems and say "hey, we will send you the OS when we have it ready" and they are the worst offenders. also you are not understanding the complexity of deploying a sat. they are seriously hedging their bets.

and yes i will be laughing my butt off if it fails horribly hehe. if i were running the company i wouldn't have placed tv ads saying "the sat is in orbit and almost operational". i'm sure many people heard that commerical and are probably saying the same thing i did.

go research "HUBBLE" on google and you might see what is being talked about.


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## JoeyJoJo (Sep 29, 2003)

restino said:


> you are trying to create a reality that doesn't exist. even microsoft didn't sell you computers without operating systems and say "hey, we will send you the OS when we have it ready" and they are the worst offenders. .
> .


First, microsoft doesn't sell computers.

Actually that's EXACTLY what they did though -- Most of the PC's sold a couple of months before the release of Vista came with coupons to upgrade as soon as it was available.


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## royy13 (Aug 31, 2007)

restino said:


> even microsoft didn't sell you computers without operating systems and say "hey, we will send you the OS when we have it ready" and they are the worst offenders.


Microsoft did sell computers with Vista before it was offered. I work at Costco in the electronics department and this is what they did. They sold the computer with XP in it, but put a sticker and littered the place with literature that stated you will be able to get a free upgrade to Vista once it was released. That is selling a computer using Vista to push the sale before the product was released.

Roy


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

To the OP's point...

Just about EVERY company out there follows this model...
They announce, what they have reasonable belief to happen...

The Current generaiton of gaming systems XBOX360, PS3, Wii all announced a LONG time before they were released.

TV networks... promote the heck out of shows that are not goign to air for months... and may only last a week.

Sports teams... actively sell season tickets for the NEXT season, which has ZERO guarantees to it.

Automanufaturers... they show you their next years model car, about a week after the current model is released

...... and so on

This is no the first sat they have launched, I think it is their 14th or 15th....
They have a pretty good handle on what to expect for it.

They even have a "backup" one ready to go, if there were significant problems.... sure things may have been delayed (As seen by the SeaLaunch explosion, which has pushed back some of their plans to 2008).


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

dswallow said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=364286


Following through that thread, and the two threads at other forums linked to it, many of the channels showing up in engineering mode are either placeholders or on only part time.

That being said....

DirecTV-10 has reached its position at 103 and is undergoing test. The mapping of about 20 new transponders labeled "103(b)" in the signal strength screen are visible to *all* customers who have Ka/MPEG4 capable receivers.

These transponders, if you are nerdy enough to sit there and play with your signal strength screen, can be seen lighting up with signals of various strengths for a time, and then shutting back off.

Perhaps, some of the content of these 80 mapped channels pops up on them when they do light up. (I wouldn't know, as I don't have an "engineering" access card and am not authorized to see them).

The bottom line is, things are starting to happen at the 103 orbital slot. Those things look all good and none bad, and strongly confirm that *lots* of new HD from DirecTV is coming very, very soon. Albeit, not viewable on the TiVo based DVR, but coming none the less.

This makes the OP's statements and position little more than trolling, IMHO.


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## joelq (Oct 9, 2006)

restino said:


> ...
> and yes i will be laughing my butt off if it fails horribly hehe. if i were running the company i wouldn't have placed tv ads saying "the sat is in orbit and almost operational". i'm sure many people heard that commerical and are probably saying the same thing i did.
> ...


So let me get this, obviously you are a DirecTV subscriber, and probably paying the HD Access fee, unless you're just using your HR10-250 for OTA. Why again would you wish failure on the company *YOU *are paying to deliver an improvement to the service *YOU *are already paying for? Could this be wishful thinking hoping some kind of failure would delay the likely imminent obsolescence of your MPEG-2 equipment?

You're right, Fish Man, this is a troll.


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## restino (Oct 25, 2006)

many of you are wrong. you are loosely comparing what is going on with directv with your simplistic 'marketing plan' stories. yes, yes, we all know people try to sell things before it gets made. that gives the buzz. yes, yes we understand that.

but sony didn't sell the games before the box was out. do i really need to go through each example or can you re-think it before doing another comparison.

sat deployment is a much tougher job. and they could run upagainst major hurdles, aren't there yet but have some guy on a sat channel saying its up and floating so get your box now lol.

see the difference yet?

trolling? no, i don't think so. there is a major difference here and most everyone does see it if you closely examine how directv is going about with their plan. again, sony's box isn't orbiting the planet and sony is know for quality equiptment. directv isnt.

thanks for all the replies however because it is a very interesting hedge on their part and on the off chance it fails then its going to be a huge problem for them.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

It was risky prior to launch; with the satellite in orbit and in operational testing, it's really minimal risk something will go wrong affecting the entire satellite; these things are designed with a whole lot of fallback capabilities so a problem in one area can be isolated and its effect minimized to a small portion of the overall capability of the satellite. A total failure is just really a tiny, tiny, tiny possibility.


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## restino (Oct 25, 2006)

you have a good point. there is a sliding scale of risk that gets less each day they move forward.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

restino said:


> trolling? no, i don't think so. there is a major difference here and most everyone does see it if you closely examine how directv is going about with their plan. again, sony's box isn't orbiting the planet and sony is know for quality equiptment. directv isnt.


Really... could you please give us the history lesson on DirecTV failed SATs...
I don't recall any of them failing, or not functioning to their specifications.

In fact, some of them are allready past their expected life expantacy, and and are still looking like that they will continue to function for a whiles to come.

So please... can you provide us with the track record for DirecTV's failures when it comes to that Sats...


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## restino (Oct 25, 2006)

don't have to even drudge that info up. let's start with directv software. and that doesn't even orbit. it just sits there and waits to be debugged


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

I think restino's thoughts on this topic have "reached orbit but haven't become operational yet."


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## restino (Oct 25, 2006)

hehe 

i still do see it as a very valid point and find it an interesting move on directv's part. looking at it closely it would be like BMW announcing a brand new model, almost here! and "can't you smell that new car leather..." and then selling customers the awesome tires that will go on the new car to come. sooner or later.

keep in mind it just isn't done that way in any large fashion for any major company with credibility.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

I think this discussion would have held more merit a year ago. Now they've done the thing that's the hardest part. They essentially beat the long odds that you say they were taking. That definatley steals from your point.

This may have been a different discussion last winter. 

I will say though that you are still incorrect. Almost every company begins to speak about products and even show prototypes before they are close to coming to market.


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## joelq (Oct 9, 2006)

restino said:


> many of you are wrong. you are loosely comparing what is going on with directv with your simplistic 'marketing plan' stories. yes, yes, we all know people try to sell things before it gets made. that gives the buzz. yes, yes we understand that.
> 
> but sony didn't sell the games before the box was out. do i really need to go through each example or can you re-think it before doing another comparison.
> 
> ...


From the movie Billy Madison: "What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul." 

Thanks for the Sony example, but I still don't get your point. Sony announced the PS3 months before it was ready, and announced the game titles before they were ready. Sounds very much like what DirecTV has done so far, i.e., announcing the availability of HD channels before they are ready. Sony wasn't actually selling anything, and neither is DirecTV.

Yes, there are risks to pre-announcing as can be seen from the Sony example, when they had to announce a slip in the launch of the PS3, but those are calculated risks. It just happened to backfire on Sony.

Even your BMW example doesn't make sense. Yes, BMW doesn't sell the tires of a newly announced model, but just what is DirecTV selling before it's ready? The H20 and HR20 have always been available, so there's nothing really new they're selling there either. *If you don't want to get one, then don't get one! Simple as that.* The HR20 will still be completely functional even if, for some reason, the new channels fail to launch on time. If you somehow feel pressure that you might soon be left out not able to receive the new channels, well, that's your calculated risk. And it just might backfire and you!

Yes, they are "marketing" and maybe even "hyping" something before it's ready, but that's nothing new nor unique. How different is DirecTV's trying to build market momentum by marketing their new channels from Sony, BMW, and countless others preannouncing their products and services?

But I digress....


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

restino shouldn't even be wiggling the Troll-O-Meter, but it's almost like a wreck on the highway. We just can't help looking.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

I think DirecTV is in a place where they have a very loyal group of customers, and because of that they can get more forgivingness from customers than other companies might get. 

An example is the 2-year commitment. In a market where they have the greatest restrictions - as we all know most cable companies have nothing more than 30 days - I think the numbers have shown that they haven't lost a lot of customers. (But they do have a group of customers like me who are not willing to sign up for an additional period with products that I don't like - namely the HR20.)

As we all know, a couple of years ago, DirecTV announced all kinds of options for the R15 similar to a stand-alone Tivo, but never came to market. In fact, the stand-alone Tivo has had features for many years that DirecTV refused to implement, and yet they continued to grow.

I think part of the reason they have a loyal following is that most of us have had to buy our way in to the service up front and we are therefore reluctant to move on to another supplier when they do things that upset us or just plain fail to get a product working.

The other reason for their success I believe, is the content - having the NFLST and the other packages is a draw that attracts customers. There is no doubt that they will get a new group of customers with all of the HD channels coming on board. I believe this advantage won't last for too long, because folks will soon discover that there are still only a few channels that they want to watch.

The net is that even if the launch had gone bad or been delayed for a few more months, DirecTV will keep most of its customers and that of course is the bottom line.

I feel the biggest challenge for DirecTV is FIOS. They are offering this huge pipeline of capacity to their customers. That pipeline will offer customers HD not only from FIOS, but also from the internet. So, customers on high-speed internet connections with boxes like the Tivo HD and Tivo Series 3 will ultimately have the broadest range of selections. If given a choice, I would take the FIOS service with a Tivo over the DirecTV service any day, just because I would have the opportunity to take advantage of the internet video that I cannot get with DirecTV.

I also feel that DirecTV is shooting themselves in the foot with the 2-year contract. It antagonizes folks. I think it is a big mistake to lease boxes and still charge huge fees up front. (Yes there are deals on the HR20 right now, but the announced rate is $299 plus the cost of installation.) At least in the past, we could get some of our money back if we wanted and/or needed to. Now, you have to really think twice about going to and/or staying with DirecTV. 

I signed on with DirecTV in its second month of service, but now consider them to be at the bottom of the list just because of the way they have changed their attitudes towards the customer since Murdoch bought the company. If they don't change their attitude towards the customer, I believe in the end they will actually start losing customers in real numbers. I feel they've got a couple of years to get things together.


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## joelq (Oct 9, 2006)

RS4 said:


> I feel the biggest challenge for DirecTV is FIOS.


I couldn't agree with you more! In this day of deregulation, I am, unfortunately, in an AT&T area, and the chances of FIOS coming into my area are very slim. If they were here, I'd switch to them in a heartbeat!


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

joelq said:


> I couldn't agree with you more! In this day of deregulation, I am, unfortunately, in an AT&T area, and the chances of FIOS coming into my area are very slim. If they were here, I'd switch to them in a heartbeat!


In fact, I read an article not too long ago where a company did a study in New England somewhere that showed DirecTV and E* were losing more customers to FIOS then the cable companies.


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

restino said:


> ...keep in mind it just isn't done that way in any large fashion for any major company with credibility.


Can you name any publicly traded company who does not have earnings or investor conferences to talk about upcoming products or services?

Can you name any trade show, auto show, boat show, electronics show, or even hardware show that is not filled with companies showing the coming products?

Years ago DIRECTV outlined their satellite plan including the D10, D11, and the spare that may one day be D12. The have continued to carefully update their plan at least quarterly. Their filings are all public record with the FCC.

DIRECTV contracted with Boeing to build these satellites. There are all coming in per contract.

The D10 satellite that will be used for the next round of HD channels is launched and is transmitting test channels now.

103(b) is showing up now on my Signal Strength screen. It is zeroed out on 16 transponders. As I watch it this past week, all at once a transponder would jump to 93 or 96% for a while and then go back off.

DIRECTV is not just telling us a number of new HD channels, they are specifically stating who the content providers are.

The content providers in each case have issued their own press releases confirming their contracts with DIRECTV.

The FCC two days ago approved DIRECTV's request to move up the new HD satellite start date by 2 weeks.

Name any publicly traded company that does not have quarterly investor filings and conferences.

Name any publicly traded company consumer products company that does not show prototypes, mock-ups, or future products in some way at trade shows.

Name any company that has done better to launch a satellite and come in ahead of time.

What company are you comparing DIRECTV to?

- Craig


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## restino (Oct 25, 2006)

joelq said:


> From the movie Billy Madison: "What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
> 
> Thanks for the Sony example, but I still don't get your point. Sony announced the PS3 months before it was ready, and announced the game titles before they were ready. Sounds very much like what DirecTV has done so far, i.e., announcing the availability of HD channels before they are ready. Sony wasn't actually selling anything, and neither is DirecTV.
> 
> ...


no reason to start insulting people that don't agree with you. but i guess its they way you do things.

directv is selling equiptment that is for the new HD channels, also telling people to get ready, check the parts, hook up the b-band convertors, etc, etc. and then says - "look up in the sky, look up! can you see its brilliance! it will be passing your way any time now..."

the other companies do not carry out this risky silly ploy. and no sony did not sell games or even the remote controls beforehand. yes another example. the ones here that keep saying xxx announces early, and yyy advertises before its ready, etc are not thinking deep enough and comparing them honestly. everyone adverts early but they all dont come out and hook something up for you that you didnt want to have in the first place (HR20) but got out of fear (another tactic you guys aren't taking into consideration) and tell you to keep watching the sky.

but i can only show you the water. if you cant take yourself to it it says nothing about me. some people will be thristy forever. ill buy you a drink when you wake up from your nappie


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

RS4 said:


> An example is the 2-year commitment. In a market where they have the greatest restrictions - as we all know most cable companies have nothing more than 30 days - I think the numbers have shown that they haven't lost a lot of customers. (But they do have a group of customers like me who are not willing to sign up for an additional period with products that I don't like - namely the HR20.)


The "commitment" started out as a way to balance the incentive that DirecTV offered (usually in the form of heavily discounted hardware and/or accessories and their installation) to the subscription period of the customer; basically a "sure, we'll give you $300 worth of discounts in exchange for you committing to maintain service with us for X months."

While sometimes there's still deals involved, more often there's really not, especially for a customer who might just be adding a receiver. And further, with the new "leased-only" policy, no t only do they want you to pay a lump some for a receiver up front, as well as expect a monthly "lease payment" for the receiver, but they want the thing back when you cancel service. But DirecTV still wants that commitment or a monetary penalty if the commitment is ended early, even though they've given you nothing in exchange.

With Comcast in my area there's no commitment period normally, though they have 1-year and 2-year deals where, in exchange for giving you a lower monthly rate (substantially lower compared to regular monthly rates), you commit to maintain service for 1 or 2 years. And even then, the pro-rated penalty you're subject to is well below the savings over the term.

DirecTV could learn a lesson there.


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

restino said:


> directv is selling equiptment that is for the new HD channels, also telling people to get ready, check the parts, hook up the b-band convertors, etc, etc. and then says - "look up in the sky, look up! can you see its brilliance! it will be passing your way any time now..."


I don't understand your point? I would be very annoyed if DirecTV fired up the new sat and I was unable to see the channels due to not having the correct receiver and/or BBCs. Also the HR20 is useful now. I have had one since October 2006 and have been receiving my local channels in HD. I would not have been able to do that on an HR10. I also live over 70 miles from the antennas so unless I wanted a huge antenna on a very tall pole I needed to get my locals via D* sat.

The new channels will be there in September barring some unlikely catastrophe. They will likely be there a week or so ahead of schedule. I am glad I have everything I need to watch the new channels when they turn them on.


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## restino (Oct 25, 2006)

milominderbinder said:


> Can you name any publicly traded company who does not have earnings or investor conferences to talk about upcoming products or services?
> 
> Can you name any trade show, auto show, boat show, electronics show, or even hardware show that is not filled with companies showing the coming products?
> 
> ...


another thirsty poster. can i buy you a drink? 

refocus: selling the setup, forceing contracts, new dishes, b-band convertors, equiptment that no one wants, putting fear into customers that they are going to miss out when the sat wasnt even operational, and still isnt fully working. but everyone sure has a seat in front of their brand new equiptment waiting for that 'signal' to shine through.

hehe, its got to make you laugh at how desparate they have acted.

advertising that a new bakery is coming is one thing and not a problem. in fact, most of you create example based on that idea, however off point. but selling people forks, napkins and plates to eat the delicously frosted and double filled ultimate cake like no other in this world before the cake receipe has even been finalized is another...


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

restino said:


> ...hehe, its got to make you laugh at how desperate they have acted...


DIRECTV is required by law to publicly disclose much of their planned activities either through the FCC or SEC.

In a matter of days, old HR10 and H10 customers will not be able to get dozens of new HD channels. So DIRECTV has been calling, mailing, emailing, and advertising to give the last holdouts as much notice in as many ways as possible. They have sent programs that downloaded to DVRs and explained it in depth on their website.

We know that delivery times have gone from days to weeks even though production is up. We know from this site that many are doing the $19 upgrades and getting 12 months of free HD programming. They have been actually paying customers to upgrade.

Replacing old equipment with new for free is being responsible, not irresponsible. I wish the automakers would do that.

Giving your customers months of notice about a major change is being responsible, not irresponsible.

How could DIRECTV keep these details out of the 10k's and FCC filings?

Tell me again the publicly traded consumer products company that does not disclose: 
+ Upcoming products at quarterly earnings and investor conferences. 
+ Key upcoming operations in SEC filings

Tell me again the FCC regulated company that does not complete the required public filings and notices?

What company are you thinking of?

- Craig


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## restino (Oct 25, 2006)

most of the stuff you mention is advertising. its obvious.

the rest that you keep droning on about has nothing at all to do with the point and its completley unrelated. go read the thread again. well at least my posts so you dont get getting confused  

every public company does filings and notices with their respective oversight goverment agencies. does that mean what they all do is good, proper, sound? no. again, all of that is off point and useless info anyway - kind of like the price of beans in china.

"come on brother, directv said its coming so im going on over to the tent now and buying my ticket..." hehe

last chance: im not saying it wont happen, relax, chill out, easy killer, easy... repeating from above - no you cant buy the car seat and golden key before we make the car.

then there are the posters that will find crazy stories like "well you can buy the cones even when the ice cream is not available, blah blah blah". some of you might not even get that lol.

the water is over that way (and it is actually ready to drink). go get it. thats all i can do for you.


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## restino (Oct 25, 2006)

bigpuma said:


> I don't understand your point? I would be very annoyed if DirecTV fired up the new sat and I was unable to see the channels due to not having the correct receiver and/or BBCs. Also the HR20 is useful now. I have had one since October 2006 and have been receiving my local channels in HD. I would not have been able to do that on an HR10. I also live over 70 miles from the antennas so unless I wanted a huge antenna on a very tall pole I needed to get my locals via D* sat.
> 
> The new channels will be there in September barring some unlikely catastrophe. They will likely be there a week or so ahead of schedule. I am glad I have everything I need to watch the new channels when they turn them on.


thank you for your on point and on topic post. very good point.

i will add that the reason for people getting these units was a scare tactic on directv's part. customers are horrified that they will miss out on something they didnt even understand yet while the service reps - as terrible as they always are - kept misleading them, scaring them to see the light.

and just what if they screwed up the launch, the systems was flawed, or somethting went wrong like you mentioned. everyone would then be crying fowl and be really pissed off.

is it close to working? i guess so. thats what they tell me. but thinking back to when this all got started and how they conducted their sales plan and tactics before any of this was solid was a big risk.

just imagine if it didn't/doesn't work out. how many people would have blew up and being fooled. what happens if its going to take another year to do this? won't people be a little pissed about that? i know they would.

they moved too far too fast on getting people to upgrade, install and buy their line of BS before they could see the light themselves.

thats all.


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## smark (Nov 20, 2002)

dswallow said:


> The "commitment" started out as a way to balance the incentive that DirecTV offered (usually in the form of heavily discounted hardware and/or accessories and their installation) to the subscription period of the customer; basically a "sure, we'll give you $300 worth of discounts in exchange for you committing to maintain service with us for X months."
> 
> While sometimes there's still deals involved, more often there's really not, especially for a customer who might just be adding a receiver. And further, with the new "leased-only" policy, no t only do they want you to pay a lump some for a receiver up front, as well as expect a monthly "lease payment" for the receiver, but they want the thing back when you cancel service. But DirecTV still wants that commitment or a monetary penalty if the commitment is ended early, even though they've given you nothing in exchange.
> 
> ...


There usually isn't a penalty, just that you may lose discounts on your other services. An example is if you got all 3 products (video, voice, internet) for $99 and then wanted to drop the voice, your rate may go up to the normal rate on the video + internet.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

smark said:


> There usually isn't a penalty, just that you may lose discounts on your other services. An example is if you got all 3 products (video, voice, internet) for $99 and then wanted to drop the voice, your rate may go up to the normal rate on the video + internet.


I was specifically referring to:

www.comcast.com/nj159

2) YOU AGREE THAT IF SERVICE IS CANCELLED, DOWNGRADED OR DISCONNECTED FOR ANY REASON DURING THE 24 MONTH PERIOD (EXCEPT DURING THE FIRST 30 DAYS OF SERVICE ACTIVATION AS PROVIDED IN PARAGRAPH 3 BELOW), AN EARLY TERMINATION FEE OF $150 SHALL APPLY. IN ADDITION, IF SERVICE IS DOWNGRADED, COMCAST'S REGULAR CHARGES WILL APPLY TO ANY REMAINING SERVICES. YOU ALSO AGREE THAT FOLLOWING THE 24 MONTH PERIOD COMCASTS REGULAR CHARGES FOR SERVICES AND EQUIPMENT WITHOUT A 24 MONTH TERM AGREEMENT SHALL APPLY UNLESS SERVICE IS CANCELLED BY CALLING 1-888-COMCAST.

(CAPS are courtesy of Comcast, not me )

But after about 4 or 5 months, the $150 termination fee is actually covered by what one saved already... and there's still another 19 or 20 months of similar savings.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> Really... could you please give us the history lesson on DirecTV failed SATs...
> I don't recall any of them failing, or not functioning to their specifications.
> 
> In fact, some of them are allready past their expected life expantacy, and and are still looking like that they will continue to function for a whiles to come.
> ...


I am still waiting for my history lesson, on where DirecTV has failed in any of their previous SAT launch, development, and deployment efforts....

As that was the basis of the "concern" for the OP...


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## restino (Oct 25, 2006)

ebomovic - you can't read well. try it again. crafting sentences together just to hear yourself talk is your strong point. reading comprehension is not.

again, you can simply point to directv crappy software to understand my point. remember the part where i said and that doesn't even orbit it just sits there and waits to be debugged...

i dont think you really care to discuss things. from what i see you always confront everything that isnt a healthy glowing positive shining review for directv. im sure most everyone already knows that however. 

are you an directv employee?


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## smark (Nov 20, 2002)

dswallow said:


> I was specifically referring to:
> 
> www.comcast.com/nj159
> 
> ...


Hence why I said "usually".  Guess they are running things a tad differently in NJ.


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## old7 (Aug 7, 2002)

Restino, give it a rest. The only you have convinced is yourself. If this was March 2007 and you were making this argument you would have a point. Today, your argument is so thin that it is non-existent.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

restino said:


> again, you can simply point to directv crappy software to understand my point. remember the part where i said and that doesn't even orbit it just sits there and waits to be debugged...


DirecTV doesn't write any of the station-keeping software for the satellites, or any of the software that is relied upon during launch, orbital insertion, testing or operations.

So, buggy as their idea of a DVR or receiver may be, don't expect it to cause one of their satellites to blow up or to fall to earth.


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## restino (Oct 25, 2006)

old7 said:


> If this was March 2007 and you were making this argument you would have a point. Today, your argument is so thin that it is non-existent.


and thats exactly to my point. thank you.

the reason i started this thread is because it just dawned on me, maybe a bit late but still the same, when i saw that commerical that they were doing this ploy back in march 2007 and before. i was shocked to think it carefully through.

also, the decision to drop tivo, a superior brand name and quality product, and the bug ridden software of their current receivers shows the lack of intelligence directv management has. if you were to drop a 'tivo' relationship would you focus hard on making a quality product even more so now that you broke with the best? i sure would, but i plan very far ahead.

well that does end my interest in this thread now that i see the points were discussed and then even validated, added bonus, by the detractors nonetheless too! thank you 

for giggles - all of you that posted negatively dismissing my idea of recklessness on directvs part... do you own a directv upgrade already?

ill sit back and watch either a lack of replies or large counts of 'yes i do'


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

restino said:


> ...for giggles - all of you that posted negatively dismissing my idea of recklessness on directvs part... do you own a directv upgrade already?
> 
> ill sit back and watch either a lack of replies or large counts of 'yes i do'


I did not do a receiver upgrade. I have not said anything negative. I have only pointed out positives.

Back to your point...


restino said:


> ...keep in mind it just isn't done that way in any large fashion for any major company with credibility.


again, would you please tell us...

What publicly traded consumer electronics company doesn't disclose future plans quarterly?

What FCC regulated company does not make the required filings months or years in advance as required by law?

What publicly traded consumer electronics company doesn't show prototypes or concepts at trade shows?

Why won't you answer? I am just trying to understand you.

- Craig


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

restino said:


> also, the decision to drop tivo, a superior brand name and quality product, and the bug ridden software of their current receivers shows the lack of intelligence directv management has. if you were to drop a 'tivo' relationship would you focus hard on making a quality product even more so now that you broke with the best? i sure would, but i plan very far ahead.


I'd like to believe that DirecTV management shows a lack of intelligence. But unfortunately they may just be doing the smart thing for their shareholders. Most people are too stupid to understand the advantages of TiVo.


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## madbeachcat (Jan 31, 2002)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I'd like to believe that DirecTV management shows a lack of intelligence. But unfortunately they may just be doing the smart thing for their shareholders. Most people are too stupid to understand the advantages of TiVo.


No, I am not going to call you stupid. But maybe, just maybe, some of us see some advantages in using equipment that doesn't run Tivo software. While at the same time not having to denigrate other peoples choices. Tivo is a fine product, but it is not for everyone.

Calling us stupid does not change that, or make your statement true.


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## joelq (Oct 9, 2006)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I'd like to believe that DirecTV management shows a lack of intelligence. But unfortunately they may just be doing the smart thing for their shareholders. Most people are too stupid to understand the advantages of TiVo.


It may not be that they are "too stupid", but rather, they see "Tivo" as only one way to manage their content, and that they consider getting the content they want as having a higher priority than having a particular user experience.

I have posted in a separate thread that it seems some anti-HR20 owners are insisting on keeping their obsolete equipment just for the sake of owning a Tivo, which to me, defeats the purpose of them keeping a DirecTV subscription. I think one can also argue that this thinking is "stupid" and/or naive, maybe even ignorant. If they're that upset with DirecTV, why not switch to cable, get a S3, and be happy? There's really no reason to keep hanging onto DirecTV.

Me? I still have two SD DTivos, an HR10-250 (all zippered), but have also recently gotten an HR20 because I *want* to be able to get more HD content. Call me "stupid", but to me, this is *the* point. Content, not Tivo, is king.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

I guess I'm not following this whole thread. I got my first HR20 about a month ago. It has been getting me HD locals that I could not get with my HR10 or OTA since the day it arrived. So how has DTV sold me hardware that doesn't do anything yet? 

If DTV were your company how would you have handled it differently? Would you wait until the channels are online before telling anyone? That would limit your subscriber growth and the delay the benefit of the huge investment in new resources. DTV is already expecting there to be installation delays when the new channelks do come online this month. IMagine how long the wait would be if they hadn't presold it?


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

HiDefGator said:


> I guess I'm not following this whole thread. I got my first HR20 about a month ago. It has been getting me HD locals that I could not get with my HR10 or OTA since the day it arrived. So how has DTV sold me hardware that doesn't do anything yet?


Pretty certain he was referring to all the new HD channels that nobody has yet received (and is slated for release sometime this month).


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

joelq said:


> Software companies, car companies, consumer electronics companies, etc typically announce their products months ahead of time, even though they know there's a risk the schedules may slip.


While that is most certainly true, those enterprises are managing a much more predictable and less risky logistical enterprise than launching and activating a space satellite. It's always a gamble, of course, and projected turn up dates do sometimes slip, but events in the space program can delay projects for years. That's some major egg on a company's face. On the other hand, while launching a space satellite is horribly risky, it is also hideously expensive, and it is impearative the company be able to ramp up sales very quickly once the system is operational in order to recover the capital expenditures and pay off the loans. The last think on Earth I would want to be is the CEO of a company poised to enter into such a venture, especially in today's market. The acid in my stomach would be able to eat through an engine block.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

restino said:


> ebomovic - you can't read well. try it again. crafting sentences together just to hear yourself talk is your strong point. reading comprehension is not.
> 
> again, you can simply point to directv crappy software to understand my point. remember the part where i said and that doesn't even orbit it just sits there and waits to be debugged...
> 
> ...


I can read extremely well, thank you for your concern...
As for crafting sentences... re-read your posts.... as you still haven't answered the direct question, on what is the history of DirecTV's failures with the SAT launches you are basing your theory on. Instead of answering the direct question, you attack me...

Now a 2nd question, what does the software development on the IRD's have anying to do with the building, launching, deploying, and software control of a multi-billion dollar SAT?

You must not know me very well then, as I certainly do like to have a discussion...

You are trying to link 100% different tasks... taking the results of one area, and blindly applying them to something completely different.

And if you would know my history, you will know that I am not a DirecTV employee.

So again... on the basis of your point, that the SAT will fail... thus not be able to provide the signal...

What is the history of the SAT aspects of DirecTV you are basing it on?


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

madbeachcat said:


> Calling us stupid does not change that, or make your statement true.


You are right. Poor choice of words on my part. Sorry.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I don't get the OP's point.

What has DirecTV actually sold that they haven't delivered?

If you buy/lease an HR20, you get a DVR that gets national HD that is available today, gets OTA that is available today and gets local HDs if available today in your market. The standard dish install is the Slimline (and upgrades are free, so what are they selling?). The Slimline works for all existing satellite services. The BBCs are free, no sale there.

Yes, they are marketing a future product. One that they are fairly sure will happen one way or another but there are no sure things anywhere.

But they are selling nothing they don't have today.


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## madbeachcat (Jan 31, 2002)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> You are right. Poor choice of words on my part. Sorry.


Forgiven. Sorry to be so touchy.


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## MurrayW (Aug 28, 2005)

:up:


Phantom Gremlin said:


> You are right. Poor choice of words on my part. Sorry.





madbeachcat said:


> Forgiven. Sorry to be so touchy.


Can this really be happening? Two posters on an internet forum apologizing to each other? Way to go guys!

My opinion of gremlins and cats just went up.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> Now a 2nd question, what does the software development on the IRD's have anying to do with the building, launching, deploying, and software control of a multi-billion dollar SAT?


Are you sure about that? I've never heard of any satellite which in and of itself cost anything even close to $1 Billion. I do know that D* is supposedly sinking several $Billion into new satellites and new equipment, but I would really be shocked to learn any single satellite actually cost several $Billion - development and launching included. Of couse, stranger things have happened.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

joelq said:


> If they're that upset with DirecTV, why not switch to cable, get a S3, and be happy? There's really no reason to keep hanging onto DirecTV.


There is if CATV service is not available in the area. Satellite is the only option for my sistyer and both my brothers. None of them live in an area serviced by any CATV company. The same is true for tens of thousands of consumers living in rural areas all across the country, not to mention in Canada, Mexico, South and Central America, etc. Stupidity has nothing to do with it, either way.


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## tedkunich (Sep 9, 2005)

restino said:


> <snip> and sony is know for quality equiptment. directv isnt. <snip>


that should be *known*, as in past tense... the days of bullet proof sony products are long long gone. If you don't believe me, I put you in touch with my buddy that works for sony service - the dude is working 14hr days....

Frankly, you have a very simplistic, biased outlook on this subject. I have worked in R/D for over 20 years and have developed products throughout that time (mostly medical) and can say with absolute certainty, marketing efforts to seed interest and excitement for a new product will ALWAYS precede availably of said product. Apple and Sony are no exception - they may not use traditional marketing avenues, but be assured that the marketing arm is busy long before the product ever exits the feasibility stage.

Pease,

T


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## dkraft (Dec 20, 2004)

Lets just say 3 years ago I was living in Florida with no Local HD channels broadcast from Directv, so I moved to New Jersey (wink wink). 

I just bought a HR20 and moved back to Florida and now have my Local HD channels.

If directv did not make the HR20 I would still be living in New Jersey. As an added bounce I find out I will be getting an additional 80 HD channels included in my already monthly charge for HD.

My wife can now show me here pictures on the HR20 instead of me having to get up off the couch and walk into her office to view them on her computer.

I found the 19.95 shipping cost of the HR20 and free installations as my only moving cost to Florida.

I was one of the first to buy a HR10-250 and paid $1000.00

This time I waited on the HR20-100 then I heard the bird was up and ready to go online so I called directv and decided to move back to Flordia.

Hope is sometimes all we have to look forward to.


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## jmrife (Jan 12, 2004)

Yes, I do have the upgrade as of 60 days ago. 

To those of you who do not, I hope you enjoy your mpeg2.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

who opened the floodgates?


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## joelq (Oct 9, 2006)

fasTLane said:


> who opened the floodgates?


Seriously - I thought this thread had finally died.


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## alwayscool (May 10, 2005)

dkraft said:


> Lets just say 3 years ago I was living in Florida with no Local HD channels broadcast from Directv, so I moved to New Jersey (wink wink).
> 
> I just bought a HR20 and moved back to Florida and now have my Local HD channels.
> 
> ...


So you are telling me that your TV viewing caused you to move your residence? Wow now that is the true definition of "couch potato". Send me some of whatever meds you are taking


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## ebockelman (Jul 12, 2001)

alwayscool said:


> So you are telling me that your TV viewing caused you to move your residence? Wow now that is the true definition of "couch potato". Send me some of whatever meds you are taking


No, he didn't actually move. He "moved" to get New York locals.


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