# Loyal Customer Offer (Series 1 Owner)



## gof (Nov 6, 2000)

Ok, I've had a series 1 (with lifetime) since they were giving them away waaay back in about 1999. About 6 months ago it gave up the ghost and I haven't had a chance to look into fixing it or even seeing what's wrong, probably the upgraded hard drives. I even have a cachecard.

I received an offer from Tivo for an upgrade with $99 lifetime. Seems like a plan to upgrade since I can get rid of the mini adapter needed to use the old Series 1. But now I'm faced with options and I haven't kept up. Some reading has just expanded some of my questions so any help would be appreciated. I'm on Comcast (Chicago Metro area) but with only basic. We do watch some sports and limited TV (e.g. Survivor), but we are not a big TV family (and have Amazon Prime & Netflix). My wife likes to have the access to it in case there is local news impacting us or a show the kids need for school, etc. I do have an Antenna in the attic and can get the local networks over that. We are paying for the Comcast DVR for those limited things we needed to record.

So, Roamio sounds like an ideal replacement for the sucky Comcast DVR, and I think it will save some fees. I can also probably sell off the old series 1 for parts (is there still a market?). But which one? The basic Roamio sounds good as we probably don't need more than 4 tuners, and it would work with the antenna if I can convince my wife of pulling the plug (but comcast internet pricing almost requires keeping minimum level of TV). But the Roamio Plus has the built-in streaming to portable devices (Pro is same with just a bigger HD, and I assume the HD is enthusiast replaceable??).

So, anyone with experience, especially with the potential antenna+cablecard option? I'm torn between the (perceived) added functionality of the Plus over the basic, but I also like the antenna option. What are the hidden costs from Comcast?

On a related note: Do all the TiVo Mini's include lifetime now as well? I see Amazon has it for $132 (prime) vs $150 at TiVo direct.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Yes, all Minis get free lifetime activation now (at least through May 4, 2015).

The most interesting thing you said was that you have a Series 1 with lifetime that you've had since 1999. If you purchased the lifetime service on it on or before January 20, 2000 you can actually transfer that lifetime service to a new Roamio for free.

As to which Roamio to get, obviously if you want to use it with OTA then the base Roamio is your only option. If however you think it is likely you will be sticking with digital cable for the long haul, then I would recommend going with the Plus (or Pro). The 2 extra tuners come in handy, especially if you plan on using Minis, as the Minis will borrow a tuner from the host DVR for live TV. You already mentioned the built-in streaming capabilities of the Plus/Pro, but also it has built in MoCA, which the base Roamio does not. That also comes in very handy if you plan on using it with the Minis if your house isn't already wired up for ethernet.


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## gof (Nov 6, 2000)

I went back and looked at my account on Tivo.com. It was in 2000, so I don't qualify for the "free" transfer. Still, $99 is a pretty good deal 

I'm fully wired for gigabit ethernet (well, cat5e but I'm not having any noise issues preventing gigabit use) anywhere I have a coax jack, and the ability to drop new wires through conduit to the same locations if needed. I planned to use ethernet for any mini's assuming it's equal in performance to MoCA. I did notice that the Plus/Pro support gigabit, but the basic model doesn't. One option for OTA use might just be the Roamio OTA for $50, but I think that requires the $15/mo fee as well.... I do wish the Plus/Pro supported OTA.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

gof said:


> I'm fully wired for gigabit ethernet (well, cat5e but I'm not having any noise issues preventing gigabit use) anywhere I have a coax jack, and the ability to drop new wires through conduit to the same locations if needed. I planned to use ethernet for any mini's assuming it's equal in performance to MoCA. I did notice that the Plus/Pro support gigabit, but the basic model doesn't.


True, the base Roamio only has 100Mbps ethernet. I think a Mini stream uses 19Mbps, so since you can only use 3 Minis simultaneously for live TV with the base Roamio, it shouldn't really be a problem. The only time you might run into a problem is if you have lots of Minis and people are trying to stream recorded content to more than 4 or 5 Minis simultaneously. That would be a problem.

Some people whose ethernet network isn't as robust might prefer to offload the Mini streams to MoCA, but with a gigabit network it really shouldn't be a problem.



gof said:


> One option for OTA use might just be the Roamio OTA for $50, but I think that requires the $15/mo fee as well.... I do wish the Plus/Pro supported OTA.


Yes, the Roamio OTA model does require the monthly fee. Another option for OTA is to buy a used Series 3 or Series 4 with lifetime.


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Another option for OTA is to buy a used Series 3 or Series 4 with lifetime.


But this would limit him to only 2-tuner units that could not act as hosts to the Mini's, so probably not a worthwhile option.

Keep in mind that "streaming to portable devices" can be achieved with a separate Tivo Stream box for ~$130 dollars. It seems like you'd prefer the option of CableCard or OTA, and the base model Roamio with Lifetime would be my recommendation. Also note that this would allow you to view your Netflix and Amazon Prime content directly on the Roamio or Mini boxes as well.


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## gof (Nov 6, 2000)

What are the tuner limits on the Roamio basic? It has "4 tuners" but it doesn't say if this could be 4 OTA, 4 Cablecard, or any on-the-fly combination. I ran across some early comments on various sites which alluded to not being able to record OTA at the same time as you recorded via cable. Does anyone have one of these and can they comment on how it works in practice?


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## dcline414 (May 1, 2014)

tarheelblue32 said:


> True, the base Roamio only has 100Mbps ethernet. I think a Mini stream uses 19Mbps, so since you can only use 3 Minis simultaneously for live TV with the base Roamio, it shouldn't really be a problem. The only time you might run into a problem is if you have lots of Minis and people are trying to stream recorded content to more than 4 or 5 Minis simultaneously. That would be a problem.


OP is also a Netflix subscriber... They recommend 25mbps for their top video quality (ultra HD). Since you can't pick HD quality (only limit to SD or allow max bandwidth HD), streaming to the Roamio could limit you to use of 3 minis.

On that note, can the base/OTA Roamio NIC module be upgraded to gigabit? We have a cat6 wired network with all gigabit routers and switches, so this is a silly limitation that probably saves TiVo about $0.05 on production cost.


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

gof said:


> What are the tuner limits on the Roamio basic? It has "4 tuners" but it doesn't say if this could be 4 OTA, 4 Cablecard, or any on-the-fly combination. I ran across some early comments on various sites which alluded to not being able to record OTA at the same time as you recorded via cable. Does anyone have one of these and can they comment on how it works in practice?


With the Roamio, they changed it to OTA *OR* Cable. It's 4-tuners of either, but no mixing. The unit only has one coax-in port. The last Tivo unit to allow simultaneous OTA and Cable were the 2-tuner Premiere units which could do 2 OTA or 2 Cable, or 1 OTA and 1 Cable simultaneously.

It's meant to be a choice of OTA or Cable. It's main market is for people who have cut the cord, but think they might go back to cable, or vice versa. You keep your options open with the basic unit.


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## gof (Nov 6, 2000)

tatergator1 said:


> With the Roamio, they changed it to OTA *OR* Cable. It's 4-tuners of either, but no mixing. The unit only has one coax-in port. The last Tivo unit to allow simultaneous OTA and Cable were the 2-tuner Premiere units which could do 2 OTA or 2 Cable, or 1 OTA and 1 Cable simultaneously.
> 
> It's meant to be a choice of OTA or Cable. It's main market is for people who have cut the cord, but think they might go back to cable, or vice versa. You keep your options open with the basic unit.


Ouch. Well this basically sucks then. I was hoping to get the better quality OTA for the local channels (since it's not compressed soo much). If I have to have the tuner set to all cable to even get a single channel, I might as well get the Plus model and if I ever need OTA only pick up an OTA unit at some later time (selling the Plus if I've completely cut the cable). With lifetime on the Plus, it would probably have a better resale value, and who knows what will happen in a couple years. Dish's new 20 channel streaming package might be all I'd need.

http://www.cnet.com/news/dish-launc...ith-channel-lineup-that-includes-espn-disney/


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

dcline414 said:


> OP is also a Netflix subscriber... They recommend 25mbps for their top video quality (ultra HD). Since you can't pick HD quality (only limit to SD or allow max bandwidth HD), streaming to the Roamio could limit you to use of 3 minis.


The device doing the streaming from Netflix won't pick a video quality higher than what the TV it thinks it's displaying on can support. e.g., if you have a 720p TV with a built in Netflix app, that app isn't going to try and pull down 4K content from Netflix, it's going to limit the quality to the standard 720p "HD" stream and won't bother trying to stream the "Super HD" (1080p) or "Ultra HD" (4K)" content.

Also, the standard $8.99 Netflix plan doesn't give access to the 4K content. Netflix's 4K content requires the $11.99 family/Platinum plan.


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## gof (Nov 6, 2000)

Thanks for all the input so far everyone.

Ok, I think I'm leaning towards getting the Roamio basic for the potential OTA in the future if I completely cut the cord. I see I can self-upgrade the hard drive myself to a 3TB drive (or possibly more).

Since I have hardwired gigabit in the house, all I need for a Mini is that hardwired ethernet, correct? I know the basic doesn't include the MoCA capability built in but will it do everything needed with just Ethernet (including Netflix, Comcast OnDemand, etc? Then if I want to do streaming, I only need to pick up a TiVo Stream box as well. Is that the only difference between the basic and Plus (no CPU or RAM differences making the Plus a better long term choice)??

I was able to pick up a New Mini on eBay very cheap ($49, http://www.ebay.com/itm/251793851287?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT) and I see used Stream's going also for about $50-$60.

For Comcast, do I need to (or is it better to) purchase a cable card off ebay? If I can get a payback within 24-36 months, I might as well purchase the hardware.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

gof said:


> I can also probably sell off the old series 1 for parts (is there still a market?).


Back in the day, there were threads about using TiVos with videocameras for a DIY "instant replay" system (for coaching sports). So someone who was using an old TiVo for that purpose might want a parts machine.

I have no idea what the market value would be, but your S1 could have practical value for someone.


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

gof said:


> Thanks for all the input so far everyone.
> 
> Since I have hardwired gigabit in the house, all I need for a Mini is that hardwired ethernet, correct? I know the basic doesn't include the MoCA capability built in but will it do everything needed with just Ethernet (including Netflix, Comcast OnDemand, etc? Then if I want to do streaming, I only need to pick up a TiVo Stream box as well. Is that the only difference between the basic and Plus (no CPU or RAM differences making the Plus a better long term choice)??


Major differences are no built-in stream, no gigabit Ethernet, no MoCA built in and number/type of tuners.

Stream box would take care of the first, 10/100 Ethernet is more than adequate unless you're going to be running 5+ Minis, and MoCA doesn't matter since your whole house is wired.



gof said:


> For Comcast, do I need to (or is it better to) purchase a cable card off ebay? If I can get a payback within 24-36 months, I might as well purchase the hardware.


A CableCard off eBay is a bad choice. It's probably unreturned equipment (technically stolen) and Comcast is highly unlikely to authorize it. It's a mute point for you though. Comcast should provide the first CableCard for free.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

I have a bunch of old Series 1s with lifetime. If I put those on my account does anyone think they would offer me $99 lifetime if I bought a non OTA Roamio?
( I bought them used and bought them for resale that has never happened and have never used them. None of them are old enough to transfer the lifetime to another TiVo. They all work, and are Philips and Sony Series 1 TiVos. )


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

tatergator1 said:


> A CableCard off eBay is a bad choice. It's probably unreturned equipment (technically stolen) and Comcast is highly unlikely to authorize it. It's a mute point for you though. Comcast should provide the first CableCard for free.


Unreturned equipment isn't "technically stolen". Cable companies bill you for unreturned equipment, which makes them "technically bought" and they can therefore be legally sold. Also, a lot of the CableCards for sale are probably salvaged from discarded cable boxes sold for scrap. However, as you say they are probably useless, as cable companies won't generally authorize CableCards you purchase off ebay. About the only use for a CableCard purchased off ebay is to handle the channel mapping for clear QAM channels.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

A charge for unreturned equipment is not the same as a sale. I bet they believe they still own it.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

jrtroo said:


> A charge for unreturned equipment is not the same as a sale. I bet they believe they still own it.


It is effectively a forced sale. If you pay for something, you own it.

Regardless, I don't think that is where most CableCards being sold on ebay come from. I seriously doubt there are a lot of people intentionally not returning their cable boxes and being charged an unreturned equipment fee so that they can pull out the CableCard and sell it for $5 on ebay. It makes no sense.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

A friend of mine hauls away junk and he gets a lot of cable/satellite owned equipment that people trash. I know if it is old enough the companies don't even want it back, but I imagine when someone is walking away from a rental and leaving most of their possessions, that equipment is the last thing they are thinking of.


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## squint (Jun 15, 2008)

I bought a TiVo HD off of eBay that was setup once and then sold. It didn't have lifetime but it did have a CC inside it.


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## shaggy314 (Feb 18, 2007)

I got the same deal as a "10 year TiVo customer". My Series 2 w/ lifetime just hit 10 years old (on its 3rd or 4th HDD, I forget) last month.

I had to buy a Roamio at retail directly form TiVo and then got lifetime service for $99. My series 3 with lifetime (on its 3rd drive) hits 10 years this coming December...

I went with a Plus and an amazon.com 3 TB drive. The Roamio formatted it just fine after a little bit of time and been running great. I wish Time Warner had one free cable card. They charge me $2.50 each. I gave back one of the two from the series 3.

Should I try to now sell my series 2? How long off the net before TiVo inactivates it?


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## gof (Nov 6, 2000)

Just a follow up to all who helpfully contributed. I ended up going for a Roamio basic since the added features of the Plus, while nice (especially built in streaming) couldn't override the potential future need of OTA. I was able to pick up a new Mini via eBay for $49 delivered (http://www.ebay.com/itm/251793851287). If I decide I need streaming I'll take a look at getting a used Stream off eBay, but it looks like I can get at least download functionality with KMTTG (now I just need to look at how to install it).

Thanks everyone!


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## sakaike (Jan 22, 2002)

Off topic, but why would anyone sell a new Mini for only $49 all in?

I sold one recently on eBay for $135 in less than one day.

Obviously, great deal for OP...


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

sakaike said:


> Off topic, but why would anyone sell a new Mini for only $49 all in?
> 
> I sold one recently on eBay for $135 in less than one day.
> 
> Obviously, great deal for OP...


I bought one for this $49 price on eBay as well; from a different seller, but also shipping from France and also from a seller with multiple units to sell. There's no tracking information on the shipment, but it won't arrive until Feb 4th.

I'm hoping everything is legit with my purchase, but won't be able to put my worries to rest until the Mini arrives and is activated with lifetime on my account.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

I just looked at a Mini auction on eBay from someone in France for $49. The guy has zero feedback from sales (6 from buying cheap stuff) and has only been on eBay since 2013.

I wouldn't risk it. I'm curious if you ever get your item.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Probably terrorists funding the war effort.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

Well, it does seem a little fishy, right? They don't sell TiVo Minis in France, so, ummm...


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

Arcady said:


> I just looked at a Mini auction on eBay from someone in France for $49. The guy has zero feedback from sales (6 from buying cheap stuff) and has only been on eBay since 2013.
> 
> I wouldn't risk it. I'm curious if you ever get your item.


Well, I guess I'll find out. The seller I bought from has been a member since 2011 and had 100% positive feedback with 4 reviews (3 of which were in the last 12 months).

Between the eBay protections and payment with AMEX, I figure I am covered and it was worth the gamble.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

pfiagra said:


> Between the eBay protections and payment with AMEX, I figure I am covered and it was worth the gamble.


With AMEX you are probably safe.


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## gof (Nov 6, 2000)

As a follow up on those who were suspicious of the $49 Tivo Mini, you were right. Looks like no one received them. eBay issued a refund right away once the minimum reply period expired.


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