# Tivo: Retail lifetime transfers are great, but some of us took you at your word...



## jtbarrett (Jun 16, 2004)

I'm glad that Tivo relented and is allowing lifetime transfers to retail S3's. It's the right thing to do. But for myself and many others who took our "VIP invitation" at its word, this policy change isn't fair at all.

Retail TiVo's are readily available (no shipping fiascos), and they cost at least $80-100 less with coupons than buying direct. I nonetheless ordered directly from Tivo, because I believed what they told me and wanted to follow the rules.

I appreciate that Tivo is trying to do right by all the retail folks, but doing so at the expense of other loyal customers sends entirely the wrong message. I've been with TiVo for five years now, having bought three (now four) boxes directly from Tivo and paid almost $1000 in subscription fees. I'm willing to pay $800 for an S3 despite the current step backwards in some key features.

TiVo, please do right by me, and by others who followed your rules for lifetime transfers and bought direct from you. A $99 transfer rather than $199 for direct buyers would even the playing field, and would go a long way toward making this particular VIP feel a whole lot happier.

Regards,
- Jeff Barrett


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## raober (Sep 10, 2006)

Y'know...normally, I would disagree, saying that we had no right to expect something for nothing.

In this case, though, I have to agree. We were told, and it was made absolutely clear, that we *must* order through TiVo directly to get the lifetime transfer. This was the basis of the whole "VIP" idea...that the customers who were the most loyal, paying $199 for the right to transfer, and maximizing TiVo's profits on the purchased box, were being given this "exclusive" offer.

Now I sit here, wondering when (and starting to wonder *if*) my S3 will arrive. Meanwhile, others who bought at retail, taking advantage of discounts and extended warranties, are getting the "exclusive" offer that I was promised.

Free shipping is nice. However, the VIP issue is unresolved. I think the above solution is equitable. Not that I expect it at this point, of course.


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## tivo_madness (Jun 20, 2005)

I too am a VIP member and ordered a box through tivo. Unfortunately, they didn't come through and I needed an S3 box in time for the cable guy (if I rescheduled, I would have to wait next week, missing all the season premiers!).

I'm glad that they are offering lifetime transfers on retail boxes. They never should have gotten involved in distribution.


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## Deacon West (Apr 16, 2006)

TiVo has generally tried to do right by us subscribers - i.e. Grandfathered clause when lifetime wasn't well defined, a one time transfer of lifetime from S1 to S2, adding a month to the last possible day you could buy lifetime on regular S1 and S2's when they discontinued, being able to transfer lifetime for $199 to S3.

All that to say, I'm sure they will do right by us this time as well. Your solution is one they should seriously consider. Yes, we want the best deal possible for our pocketbooks, but we also want the company to flourish as well. None of us want to be forced to use one of the Sat. or Cable Co. DVR's. Adding to the discussion, I would just hope that TiVo won't stop letting lifetime be transferred from retail bought boxes, but would do something for those that tried to follow the rules.


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## eisenb11 (Sep 6, 2006)

Yeah, this is getting sad.

We buy through tivo.com because that's supposed to be the only way to get the VIP and now they're letting everyone get them even with retail purchase.

Sorta sucked that Tivo couldn't get the S3 out the door on time (many still haven't shipped yet from orders on Tues morning)... and now the retail buyers are getting it for $100 less than those who bought on Tivo.com... and they don't have to pay shipping either.

Gotta say this sucks. My cable install is next Friday... I'm going to be really mad if at the least they can't get the thing to me by then...


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## boomvader (Feb 18, 2002)

I ordered from the VIP site and was in the same boat as the rest. However, I too, needed to get a box in time for the cable guy to install the cards. I ended up buying retail at full price and transferring my lifetime from my S1. I will more than likely end up either selling the VIP S3 or just refusing the package from UPS. 

I think what Tivo should do to help rectify this mess is reward the ones who do not cancel their original order by allowing them to transfer their lifetime service for free. This seems fair to me. 

Thoughts?

-boom

PS. The S3 rocks. Cable card installation was very smooth for the tech. I personally think it is worth the cost. YMMV


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## musicforme (Nov 19, 2003)

No kidding. The company goes to the effort to product content viable on their own devices and doesn't keep their message consistent.

Like many of you, I ordered my Tivo through the VIP page because I thought I had to do so. I even had a Tivo pre-ordered at my local Best Buy that I cancelled back on Tuesday.

I haven't been this mad over a transaction in a long time. First they say you have to go through the VIP page. Second, they screw up the shipping (still don't have an e-mail with a tracking number three days after the purchase). Third, they start allowing lifetime transfers to persons buying at retail.

I really hope someone rights this up as a business case model on how NOT to do a product launch. Business students need to be educated on what went wrong becaust this one certainly did not go right.


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## cpucrash0 (Sep 15, 2002)

well I ordered from tivo/vip and I'm thinking that if bestbuy gets series 3 before tivo shipment arrives I will get it at bestbuy here and just transfer lifetime. But yeah it sucks that tivo did this to us.


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

jtbarrett said:


> I'm glad that Tivo relented and is allowing lifetime transfers to retail S3's. It's the right thing to do. But for myself and many others who took our "VIP invitation" at its word, this policy change isn't fair at all.
> 
> Retail TiVo's are readily available (no shipping fiascos), and they cost at least $80-100 less with coupons than buying direct. I nonetheless ordered directly from Tivo, because I believed what they told me and wanted to follow the rules.
> 
> ...


Well said, Jeff. I am in exactly the same boat. Feel the same way.

You listening Stephen? Jerry? Pony?

Will a post from someone with more than a dozen so far make any difference? Given it's me, I'm guessing no, it won't. Been NOT singing the praises of TiVo for some time now. This whole VIP thing had me really excited, I bought mine the same day I got the email. NOw I know I've just been screwed.

Thanks, TiVo.


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## NJ Webel (Dec 8, 2004)

So Market Segment 1 gets something that Market Segment 2 doesn't.

Market Segment 2 complains (quite voraciously).

Producer decides to accomodate Market Segment 2.

Market Segment 1 complains (quite voraciously).

Repeat as neccessary.



> Well said, Jeff. I am in exactly the same boat. Feel the same way.
> 
> You listening Stephen? Jerry? Pony?


I think that's part of the problem. TiVo is listening to all the complaints, and for all their good intentions in going overboard trying to appease everyone, they're only ending up managing to anger ALL their Series3 customers.

You can please some of the people ALL of the time.

You can please all of the people SOME of the time.

But when you try to please ALL of the people ALL of the time, you usually end up pleasing none of them.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I agree with that. Instead of people looking at it from the perspective of allowing MORE people to transfer lifetime, people post how horrible Tivo is because it effects them.

Help 5,000 people, but if you're kinda harming me, then a pox on your house Tivo.

If $799 is too expensive for ME, then Tivo shouldn't even bother releasing it so others can enjoy. 

Nobody's perfect. They have a policy in place, and then maybe because of some customer complaints, they revise it to help more customers, and that's horrible of them.

-smak-


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## jtbarrett (Jun 16, 2004)

I definitely didn't say it was horrible of them to change the policy; in fact I said just the opposite. I appreciate that they are trying to please retail customers, but I do think that those of us who followed their rules shouldn't be disadvantaged for doing so.

Even if TiVo allowed direct buyers to transfer a lifetime sub for only $99, they would still make substantially more money from each direct purchase than from a retail one. And with respect to the "angry customer loop," my suggestion doesn't create a "better" scenario for direct buyers than for retail -- it creates an overall out-of-pocket customer cost that's about the same for each.

TiVo does seem to be trying to do the right thing, and I commend them for it. I'm not trying to take advantage of them or looking for a huge windfall here... but offering something close to equity with retail seems like a reasonable gesture toward those of us who adpoted early and followed their announced VIP rules.

- Jeff Barrett


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## NJ Webel (Dec 8, 2004)

jtbarrett said:


> I definitely didn't say it was horrible of them to change the policy; in fact I said just the opposite. I appreciate that they are trying to please retail customers, but I do think that those of us who followed their rules shouldn't be disadvantaged for doing so.


I guess I'm having a hard time understanding how it's a disadvantage for you that other people now receive a benefit that you were already getting?


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## jtbarrett (Jun 16, 2004)

NJ Webel said:


> I guess I'm having a hard time understanding how it's a disadvantage for you that other people now receive a benefit that you were already getting?


The folks who bought retail had the option of paying less than $800 for the S3 itself. 12% off at Best Buy, or 10% off plus free shipping from Circuit City. I and many others specifically payed TiVo's higher direct price (and endured delayed shipping) solely because TiVo told us that was the only way to get a lifetime transfer.


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## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

Yes, exactly. Those of us who ordered from tivo.com did so only because it was supposed to be the only way to get the transfer. As a result, we are paying full MSRP and waiting a week or more for something we could have gotten already for 10% or more off with perks like service plans. This, as part of a campaign that paints us as Very Important People to TiVo.


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## eisenb11 (Sep 6, 2006)

Exactly. It's not that the retail buyers are getting the lifetime transfer that's making me mad.

What's making me mad is that, while I'm now paying $150 more than the retail guys, that Tivo also hasn't even gotten around to shipping my unit yet.

It's insult to injury. We're not jealous of the "other guys" we're mad at how we're being treated.

Think about it... I could have driven to BB on Tuesday, bought the unit for 12% off, avoided shipping costs/delays, transferred my lifetime... I'd be playing with my S3 and be $150 richer all by the end of Tuesday.

Sucks this does!


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## jtbarrett (Jun 16, 2004)

Aiken said:


> Yes, exactly. Those of us who ordered from tivo.com did so only because it was supposed to be the only way to get the transfer. As a result, we are paying full MSRP and waiting a week or more for something we could have gotten already for 10% or more off with perks like *service plans*. This, as part of a campaign that paints us as Very Important People to TiVo.


(emphasis mine)

That's another idea that would work for me...

Best Buy purchasers have been getting 4-year service plans for under $30. If TiVo doesn't want to discount lifetime transfers for direct buyers, then an alternate goodwill gesture would be to toss in a multi-year extended warranty with our paid lifetime transfer if we bought direct from TiVo at launch.

(Although none of my three previous TiVo's have failed in any way, so perhaps I should lobby for the cash...)


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## pntsoptional (Aug 18, 2006)

I cant say Im that upset, about the shipping situation. Stuff like this happens in product launches all the time. 

What does irk me though, is Tivos inconsistent business practices. Like most folks on this post I ordered the S3 through Tivo because it was suppose to be the only way to transfer Lifetime. Had I known they would allow units purchased at retail to transfer Lifetime, I would have went that route if for no other reason than to purchase an extended warranty.

This isnt the first time they did something like this either. I paid for the Home Media Option when that was first introduced. Six months later they give it away for free and those that paid dont get squat by way of compensation.

I dont begrudge anyone that benefits from Tivos corporate inconsistencies, but I for one am really starting to feel like a sucker.


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## NJ Webel (Dec 8, 2004)

But this thread isn't about shipping, discounts, or even Lifetime transfers.



jtbarrett said:


> I'm glad that Tivo relented and is allowing lifetime transfers to retail S3's. It's the right thing to do. But for myself and many others who took our "VIP invitation" at its word, *this policy change isn't fair at all.*


-emphasis mine.

{edited to remove an overly harsh sounding paragraph that I didn't mean for it to sound like}

All I will say is "caveat emptor" - buyer beware. Companies change Terms and Conditions all the time. TiVo has the right to yank their Promotion tomorrow if they choose. They have chosen to modify the terms of their promotion to include other retailers.

There's nothing stopping those that ordered from TiVo to cancel the order or refuse the shipment and buy the darn thing from a B&M retailer. Then you get everything!


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## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

NJ Webel said:


> There's nothing stopping those that ordered from TiVo to cancel the order or refuse the shipment


Actually, there is. They aren't allowing anyone to cancel their order. You have to refuse shipment. Ah, but there's the rub: how do you refuse shipment on a shipment that requires no signature and whose tracking number even TiVo says you probably won't have until after the unit has already arrived? Once the unit arrives, you can RMA it, but then you have to pay the shipping back to TiVo.

(I've had all of the above confirmed by TiVo supervisors. I spent a lot of time talking to them.)

It's a bit tricky.

Worst of all is that it's been long enough waiting to find out what's going on that all of the retail units have been snapped up (around here, anyway). Even if you could bounce the shipment back to TiVo, at this point, there's not much point, because it's now the only game in town.

We're not even sure there's a game at all, since the TiVo* folks all clammed up and nobody's seen a confirmation yet. No one explained why _nothing_ shipped on Thursday, which is clearly the case, so there's no reason to believe the same unknown force didn't keep shipments from going out Friday as well. I mean, really, if they actually shipped Friday, don't you think Pony or Stephen would be here, blaring the news to the world? I'd like to think I'm wrong, but it doesn't look promising.


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## NJ Webel (Dec 8, 2004)

Aiken said:


> Actually, there is. They aren't allowing anyone to cancel their order. You have to refuse shipment. Ah, but there's the rub: how do you refuse shipment on a shipment that requires no signature and whose tracking number even TiVo says you probably won't have until after the unit has already arrived? Once the unit arrives, you can RMA it, but then you have to pay the shipping back to TiVo.


Point taken.

Concerning the statement that the initial retailer offerings having already been snapped up, I would say it looks like BB and CC are having as much trouble getting product from TiVo as many of you are. Small consolation, though...


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

NJ Webel said:


> But this thread isn't about shipping, discounts, or even Lifetime transfers.
> 
> -emphasis mine.
> 
> ...


All that is true, companies do have the right to change terms and conditions. However, they do so at the peril of the marketplace deciding they do not want to deal with them any more. It is a balancing act, what is legally allowable v what the "right" decision is to keep customers happy. In this case, they run the risk of alienating some of the most loyal customers they have.


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## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

Add my voice to the chorus from a longtime Tivo supporter. It's not the delay I'm upset about. Stuff happens with systems and I surely understand high volume and what can happen when business exceeds your wildest expectations.

I'm more upset about the lack of communication and broken commitments. To make matters worse, from reading all the posts there doesn't even seem to be a consistent word from Tivo on anything regarding ordering and shipping. Customers are assured "it's shipped today" only to find out later on another call that all orders will be shipped tomorrow. Customers are reading that they still have to buy through the VIP site to transfer lifetime, and this is mostly confirmed by Tivo, only to find out that some reps are accomodating other customers' requests. Shipping and emails are promised, and the result is silence....and the silence is deafening.

The worst part I think is customers having to re-arrange their lives at least twice to accomodate this mess, as customers are now having to cancel appointments from cable companies to finish the Tivo install, and drag what's been a fairly unpleasant experience out even further.

I really thought my box would show up on Friday, even though I hadn't gotten any email other than "thank you for your order", and the infamous "we'll have a tracking number to you by Friday".

Color me disappointed.

PS I don't expect Tivo to do anything except honor the free shipping they promised in the Thursday email. Why should I get my hopes up?


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

Lack of communication....

broken committments

bad business policies.

This is and has been the problem with TiVo for years.

Disappointed here, too. Not at all surprised.


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## snafu (Jan 19, 2002)

I sympathize with those that have been wronged by this inconsistent policy. The whole Lifetime transfer policy has me very confused. 

I've been away from this message board for quite sometime but have returned, in the last week or two, pleasantly surprise by the wealth of information. What I haven't been able to find is anything explaining the policy on lifetime transfers. I have a S1 (or earlier) with lifetime. I'm a HUGE TIVO fan but never upgraded to S2 because I was also a DISH customer. I just got FIOS TV with HD installed and am considering the S3.

I seem to remember that over the years TIVO has altered the T&C's of the "Lifetime" subscription but I can't remember the specifics. I've attempted to clear this up by calling TIVO directly but the CS person didn't seem well informed (okay, I didn't like the answer).

Is my once Lifetime subscription on a very old S1 transferable to the S3 at no charge?


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## Greeby (Dec 15, 2001)

jtbarrett said:


> I'm glad that Tivo relented and is allowing lifetime transfers to retail S3's. It's the right thing to do. But for myself and many others who took our "VIP invitation" at its word, this policy change isn't fair at all.
> 
> Retail TiVo's are readily available (no shipping fiascos), and they cost at least $80-100 less with coupons than buying direct. I nonetheless ordered directly from Tivo, because I believed what they told me and wanted to follow the rules.


Yep. I agree.

The only reason that I ordered through the TiVo website Wednesday was that it was a requirement of the VIP transfer.

I have a huge amount of reward points at Best Buy. I could have saved significantly on the 2 that I ordered, and I would be up and running rather that still waiting for shipping confirmation.

On the other hand, it's not the end of the world. Just a bit disappointing.


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## funtoupgrade (Mar 15, 2005)

Aiken said:


> Actually, there is. They aren't allowing anyone to cancel their order. You have to refuse shipment. Ah, but there's the rub: how do you refuse shipment on a shipment that requires no signature and whose tracking number even TiVo says you probably won't have until after the unit has already arrived? Once the unit arrives, you can RMA it, but then you have to pay the shipping back to TiVo.(


Wrong! Any shipper will come back and get an unopened package that the customer refuses. Done it many times.


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## bilbo (Dec 7, 2004)

it seems like people have had their shipment has been delayed 1-2 days. the series 3 has been out less than a week, and people are screaming bloody murder.

the availability of the s3 is not going to rival any of the below:

cabbage patch kids
tickle me elmo
ps2
xbox
ps3


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

How many cities have stores that physically had S3's stocked for walk-up purchase on Tuesday? Not everyone has discount coupons, either.

I don't think TiVo.com should honor other retailer's discounts, but they shouldn't violate the terms for lifetime transfer listed on their own web site.


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## m_jonis (Jan 3, 2002)

funtoupgrade said:


> Wrong! Any shipper will come back and get an unopened package that the customer refuses. Done it many times.


For a fee (they don't just pick it up and send it back at no charge). Especially if you have a signature release on file with FedEx.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

snafu said:


> IIs my once Lifetime subscription on a very old S1 transferable to the S3 at no charge?


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=290723


> Grandfather transfer: The one-time "Grandfather transfer" (for people who purchased Product Lifetime on or before January 21, 2000 [as in, more than six years ago], and who have not already used their one-time transfer) is still allowed and will also be honored for future hardware releases from TiVo, such as the Series3. If you have any trouble when you call, please mention KDB code 09-07-04 to the agent.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

bilbo said:


> it seems like people have had their shipment has been delayed 1-2 days. the series 3 has been out less than a week, and people are screaming bloody murder.
> 
> the availability of the s3 is not going to rival any of the below:
> 
> ...


True, but buyers aren't told their order already shipped in those cases. (I paid for 1 day shipping) - So far I've been told (in this order):

Day 1 (tuesday): Call back tomorrow for a tracking number.
Day 2: There has been a delay, all units are shipping out tomorrow.
Day 3: I See your order but I don't know a status
Day 3: Your order has shipped
Day 3: You order will definitely ship tomorrow (email)
Day 4: Your order has not shipped.
Day 4: You order might ship Today.
Day 4: You should definately have your order Monday (pause) Tuesday at the latest.

Z


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## tgibbs (Sep 22, 2002)

Has TiVo actually announced a change in policy, or are they only making case-by-case exceptions in the light of shipping delays?


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## 2farrell (Jul 12, 2002)

zordude said:


> True, but buyers aren't told their order already shipped in those cases. (I paid for 1 day shipping) - So far I've been told (in this order):
> 
> Day 1 (tuesday): Call back tomorrow for a tracking number.
> Day 2: There has been a delay, all units are shipping out tomorrow.
> ...


Next Tuesday.....Check back tomorrow....


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## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

tgibbs said:


> Has TiVo actually announced a change in policy, or are they only making case-by-case exceptions in the light of shipping delays?


Case by case.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4378652&&#post4378652


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## ahaley42 (Sep 12, 2006)

Deacon West said:


> Yes, we want the best deal possible for our pocketbooks, but we also want the company to flourish as well.


I somewhat believe this attitude and have done my best to support Tivo through sales, recommendations, and basically being a rabid fan boy who will shout the virtues of Tivo to anyone. But there is a limit. Tivo is a company, they want to make money off of you. They don't have my best interests at heart so why should I be gouged. Trust me, they're making plenty of money off of me so I don't feel a need to rush to the alter and dump my wallet out at their feet.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Dear TiVo,

I had $1000+ burning a whole in my pocket and I haven't been taking my impulse control medication lately. I called VIP 20 minutes after you started offering the S3 and ordered. I didn't wait to see what was going on. I trusted you blindly like I always do.

But now I find I could have done better if I'd waited two days.

I don't care that I could cancel my unshipped order, buy elsewhere for less, and still get what I want.

Its unreasonable to expect me to learn my lesson. The only choice is to give me $100 off.

Your eternally faithful customer,

HDTiVo


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

HDTiVo said:


> I had $1000+ burning a whole in my pocket [...]


Burning a whole what?


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> Dear TiVo,
> 
> I had $1000+ burning a whole in my pocket and I haven't been taking my impulse control medication lately. I called VIP 20 minutes after you started offering the S3 and ordered. I didn't wait to see what was going on. I trusted you blindly like I always do.


Yeah, but the reason your order is screwed up is easy - they don't like your new marketing plan, which I presume involves actually shipping product.


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## bferrell (Jun 22, 2005)

Gregor said:


> Case by case.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4378652&&#post4378652


Maybe, but this isn't what I what I was told when I did it, the CSR said her instructions stated that tivo.com or retail purchases were eligible.

Brett


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## derekcbart (Sep 2, 2005)

Well, it's getting worse now.

I received an email from TiVo on Thursday saying that my S3 would ship no later than Friday and I just called them (it's Saturday) to check on its status and it hasn't shipped yet. The rep said that some units might not get shipped for up to five days from the order date. TWC is coming on Tuesday to install the CableCARDs. The rep said that he agreed that the VIPs were not being treated fairly and that I could purchase the S3 from a retailer and transfer the lifetime agreement without any problems. I asked if there was any chance on the people who ordered through the VIP would get a break on the cost of the lifetime transfer and he said probably not, but that there has been a lot of discussion as to what to do regarding the issue of changing the lifetime transfer terms.

Ugh.


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## tgibbs (Sep 22, 2002)

ahaley42 said:


> I somewhat believe this attitude and have done my best to support Tivo through sales, recommendations, and basically being a rabid fan boy who will shout the virtues of Tivo to anyone. But there is a limit. Tivo is a company, they want to make money off of you. They don't have my best interests at heart so why should I be gouged. Trust me, they're making plenty of money off of me so I don't feel a need to rush to the alter and dump my wallet out at their feet.


Isn't that a bit extreme? It never ceases to amaze me that people who will happily shell out a large sum of money for a product will subsequently fly into a rage at the notion that somebody else might have gotten a slightly better deal. And in this case, the savings is a very small percentage of the price of this rather expensive product.

I'm rather surprised that TiVo is letting _anybody_ transfer their lifetime service, considering that lifetime service is a "product" that TiVo no longer offers, so the situation is very different from when TiVo let customers transfer lifetime service from S1 to S2. But I guess it is a good business move; it may well affect my own decision of when to switch from my current 10-250 (which I've been planning to abandon, since DirecTV is no longer supporting TiVo) to a CableCard TiVo.

The S3 is an expensive product. It will undoubtedly be cheaper in a year or two. Perhaps TiVo will even offer a better model, supporting 2-way CableCard 2.0 cards. Perhaps TiVo will offer another lifetime service transfer, perhaps not. Very likely, the savings of waiting to buy will outweigh what you save by rolling over your lifetime service. It is a little bonus that only slightly offsets the high cost of being an early adopter.


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## jtbarrett (Jun 16, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> Dear TiVo,
> 
> I had $1000+ burning a whole in my pocket and I haven't been taking my impulse control medication lately. I called VIP 20 minutes after you started offering the S3 and ordered. I didn't wait to see what was going on. I trusted you blindly like I always do.


I see, so by your logic it's all *my* fault for basing my purchasing decision on TiVo's written policy and VIP invitation. It's completely unreasonable for me to have believed a company that I've had excellent service from for the past five years. If only I had been wise enough to know that they could never be trusted, I'd have an extra $100 in my pocket, an S3 in my living room, and transferred lifetime service right now.

If you're right and that's all anyone should expect from them, then TiVo is in trouble for sure. Personally, I'd like to believe that they have the ability and desire to treat their VIP early adopters with equity.

- Jeff Barrett


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

jtbarrett said:


> If only I had been wise enough to know that they could never be trusted, I'd have an extra $100 in my pocket, an S3 in my living room, and transferred lifetime service right now.


_Exactly_. There is hope for you.


> If you're right and that's all anyone should expect from them, then TiVo is in trouble for sure. Personally, I'd like to believe that they have the ability and desire to treat their VIP early adopters with equity.
> 
> - Jeff Barrett


Well, they are in a bit of trouble, and they've openned up a big (and costly for them) way to get around the problem.



jfh3 said:


> Yeah, but the reason your order is screwed up is easy - they don't like your new marketing plan, which I presume involves actually shipping product.


My new marketing plan is old by now. It needs a total overhaul. And this time I'll be sure to address shipping, and a few other things like attire and sensible shoes  if I can think of them.


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

HDTiVo has an excellent point.

TiVo is going to lose a lot of cash with this retail thing. That was a bad move. They shouldn't have done it. 

If only they'd said up front that they wouldn't......


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## eisenb11 (Sep 6, 2006)

Ok, the deed is done.

I went to BB, bought a S3 (if anyone cares, Torrance CA is now out of them) went home and transferred my lifetime.

One problem though... I can't seem to cancel my S3 order from Tivo.com. They said that even though it hasn't shipped out yet that the unit is in a big warehouse and too far along to cancel as it's waiting for eventual loading on a truck.

The Tivo guys said to just refuse the shipment and they'd credit me everything back including shipping when it returns to the warehouse.

Any pointers on getting it cancelled now so I don't have to deal with this possibly getting messed up?


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## musicforme (Nov 19, 2003)

eisenb11 said:


> Any pointers on getting it cancelled now so I don't have to deal with this possibly getting messed up?


I picked one up earlier today at Fry's Electronics in Irving TX. I called ahead and had it waiting at will-call for me, so I don't know how many they have left.

What I plan on doing is taping a note to my front door for the UPS delivery person. The note is going to say that I'm refusing delivery for anything shipped from Tivo.

If they still leave it on my doorstep for some reason, I'll drop it off at the nearest UPS station which happens to be at DFW Airport. I once had a package delivered here for the previous owners of the house and UPS didn't blink twice about sending it back to the sender.


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## eisenb11 (Sep 6, 2006)

Yeah, I was thinking about taping a note up as well. I was just hoping to catch it before it goes out to avoid the potential of them charging me for the initial shipping to get it here.

Tivo is sending me a shipping lable just in case so I can ship it back for free, but I don't want even pay the "shipping here" part!


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

eisenb11 said:


> Ok, the deed is done.
> 
> I went to BB, bought a S3 (if anyone cares, Torrance CA is now out of them) went home and transferred my lifetime.
> 
> ...


And TiVo won't be able to sell it until they get it back, I imagine return shipments have one of the lowest priorities for delivery company.


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## eisenb11 (Sep 6, 2006)

vman41 said:


> And TiVo won't be able to sell it until they get it back, I imagine return shipments have one of the lowest priorities for delivery company.


Yes, that's why I was hoping to cancel the order. My cancellation would speed up another person's delivery because they would get my shipment slot and unit... but they're saying they can't cancel it if it's sitting in the warehouse.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

pntsoptional said:


> What does irk me though, is Tivos inconsistent business practices. Like most folks on this post I ordered the S3 through Tivo because it was suppose to be the only way to transfer Lifetime. Had I known they would allow units purchased at retail to transfer Lifetime, I would have went that route if for no other reason than to purchase an extended warranty.


But isn't it also an inconsistent business practice to even allow this lifetime transfer in the first place? They stopped selling lifetime, and never allow transfers.

Allowing this lifetime transfer is definately an inconsistent business practice, but it's one that you, me and a lot of people will gladly take advantage of.

There was no big plan to fool people into buying at Tivo. What probably happened is mistakenly CSR's were allowing it, and they decided to not stop them.

So they changed their mind. People may get 10% off at Best buy, yet in most cases pay for tax and shipping. The price is at least a wash.

-smak-


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## eisenb11 (Sep 6, 2006)

smak,

It depends on where you are. A bunch of states have to pay tax at tivo.com.

I'm in CA so my order from tivo.com had tax + shipping on it. Buying from BB at least saved me the cost of shipping as I didn't have any of those 10% coupons. Also I didn't have to wait for shipping (or in this case, non-shipping).


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## pntsoptional (Aug 18, 2006)

smak said:


> But isn't it also an inconsistent business practice to even allow this lifetime transfer in the first place? They stopped selling lifetime, and never allow transfers.
> 
> Allowing this lifetime transfer is definately an inconsistent business practice, but it's one that you, me and a lot of people will gladly take advantage of.
> 
> ...


All true, I just wish I could have been on the receiving end of some of that good fortune.

No doubt when the box finally does arrive I wont even remember why I was irked in the first place. Of course I have the attention span of a hyperactive puppy, so


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## ingenue007 (Aug 23, 2005)

tivo sucks. even if i want to buy one retail now, i can't b/c every place is sold out. it sucks even more b/c i had coupons to reduce cost. thanks tivo.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

eisenb11 said:


> Ok, the deed is done.
> 
> I went to BB, bought a S3 (if anyone cares, Torrance CA is now out of them) went home and transferred my lifetime.


Good job by you. :up:



ThreeSoFar said:


> HDTiVo has an excellent point.


What was my point?


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## ThreeSoFar'sBro (Oct 10, 2004)

So, I figure the brain trust at TiVo will get this "business model/business practice" thing straight in another decade or so....

As my brother stated in his earlier post, he's purchased a dozen or so....I bet he's influenced (directly or otherwise) hundreds more, literally. Because he jumped on a promise made by TiVo....he's going to pay more than me. I have "only" bought two TiVo's so far....and I'll get the better deal.

So, who's the VIP?


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

ThreeSoFar'sBro said:


> So, who's the VIP?


I dunno, but you da Man! :up:


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## Bighouse (Sep 3, 2004)

I think people are not being totally honest in their complaints here. Here's why I say that (and no, I don't own Tivo stock or work for Tivo!): 

1. I've seen a few posts from retail purchasers who've been offered the Lifetime transfer for $199, BUT, and here's the potential difference between the VIP offer and the retail offer...I've YET to see anyone say that in addition to that Lifetime transfer that Tivo gave them a year license on the old unit. 

2. No one's made the obvious statement that the VIP offer might just be different and include the transfer AND the extension for the old unit. 

So, I'm wondering if those who were able to transfer their lifetime subscription to a retail unit were also given a one year subscription for their old unit as well? 

Now, do I think it's fair? No. I thought Tivo actually felt like I, as a longtime subscriber who already owns an S1 and an S2 unit, was someone important, a very important person...and that an offer was made to me to not only give me some benefit as a longtime subscriber, but allow me to get my hands on my S3 from the mothership a few days before my neighbor, new to Tivo, might be able to from the local brick and mortar. Now I feel less than special and due to the lack of clear communication from that mothership and its inhabitants, slightly neglected, if not downright abused!


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

After returning from a tour of the Nation's Strip Clubs with Chucky, who was soliciting a piece of the Underwriting, TiVo's people thought VIP meant you pay three times as much for everything.


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## eisenb11 (Sep 6, 2006)

Bighouse said:


> I think people are not being totally honest in their complaints here. Here's why I say that (and no, I don't own Tivo stock or work for Tivo!):
> 
> 1. I've seen a few posts from retail purchasers who've been offered the Lifetime transfer for $199, BUT, and here's the potential difference between the VIP offer and the retail offer...I've YET to see anyone say that in addition to that Lifetime transfer that Tivo gave them a year license on the old unit.
> 
> ...


The lifetime transfer also includes 1 year on the old unit. We just all call it the "lifetime transfer" because that's the main focus. It's the same transfer for retail/tivo.com though.

Tivo says that it can take up to 60 days for the lifetime and 1 year to show up on the online stuff, but that it's changed in the system.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Bighouse said:


> I thought Tivo actually felt like I, as a longtime subscriber who already owns an S1 and an S2 unit, was someone important, a very important person...and that an offer was made to me to not only give me some benefit as a longtime subscriber, but allow me to get my hands on my S3 from the mothership a few days before my neighbor,


No, this is TiVo's revenge against you [email protected] Blood$ucking [email protected][email protected]$ bent on TiVo's destruction with your evil Lifetime subscriptions.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Bighouse said:


> 1. I've seen a few posts from retail purchasers who've been offered the Lifetime transfer for $199, BUT, and here's the potential difference between the VIP offer and the retail offer...I've YET to see anyone say that in addition to that Lifetime transfer that Tivo gave them a year license on the old unit.


I'll take care of that for you - did a retail transfer. Worked as I expected the VIP offer to work - shows 1 year prepaid on the S3, lifetime on the old box, rep says they will switch status in 60 days.


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## ldc3000 (Jun 24, 2004)

m_jonis said:


> For a fee (they don't just pick it up and send it back at no charge). Especially if you have a signature release on file with FedEx.


UPS doesn't charge if the package has not been open and if it was driver released. Tivo should have a del conf on all these packages anyway. Leaving a $800 package at the front door is not a smart move.


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## Deacon West (Apr 16, 2006)

jfh3 said:


> I'll take care of that for you - did a retail transfer. Worked as I expected the VIP offer to work - shows 1 year prepaid on the S3, lifetime on the old box, rep says they will switch status in 60 days.


Yes, mine shows the same or something very similar less than 24 hrs after activating new S3. Which leads me to believe that anyone trying to get a lifetimed S1 or S2 on ebay should be very careful as someone could now show a current screenshot of their old unit showing lifetime when in reality the lifetime service on that unit will go away in less than two months. Just a word to the wise. I really like ebay, I just don't want anyone to get burned during this transition time.


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## patmiller (Dec 18, 2002)

I too am pretty pissed. I was sooo excited when I got the "VIP" offer email. 
I happily forked over the $800 + shipping so I could get my box and keep 
my lifetime. I am now sitting in a cesspool of non-information. I've gotten 
no follow-on emails (not even the "free shipping" email that others speak of). 

It's not that I begrudge the folk who managed to snap up an S3 on Tuesday 
AND get the "VIP" transfer option. 

It *is* that I feel like I've been played for a fool by TiVo. I don't feel like a "VIP" 
I feel like a sucker who forked over money to TiVo early and then they shipped 
my box to some retailer who sold it to someone else cheaper while I have to wait 
and wait. I hope it comes eventually. I hope I get an email saying that the 
box has a tracking number. I hope I will be able to use the network transfer option
(please make it at least work *into* an S3 so I can put one of my boxes upstairs
and one downstairs).


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

patmiller said:


> I too am pretty pissed. I was sooo excited when I got the "VIP" offer email.
> I happily forked over the $800 + shipping so I could get my box and keep
> my lifetime. I am now sitting in a cesspool of non-information. I've gotten
> no follow-on emails (not even the "free shipping" email that others speak of).
> ...


Same boat here. Same miserable, slow-ass boat.


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## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

ThreeSoFar said:


> Same boat here. Same miserable, slow-ass boat.


I still think there IS no boat.


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

ThreeSoFar said:


> Same boat here. Same miserable, slow-ass boat.


with a slow UI


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## ingenue007 (Aug 23, 2005)

i seriously regret being an early adopter. i should have waited. tivo has been a big dissapointment.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

I'm still an early adopter. I was going to get one from Circuit City early ship, saw the VIP offer, ordered day 1 from Tivo, didn't get my box Wednesday, Thursday or Friday and bought from retail anyway for less $ than tivo.com.

The only difference is that I decided to get two S3's, rather than one, so Tivo ended up with another sub out of the deal than they would've otherwise had.


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## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

ingenue007 said:


> i seriously regret being an early adopter. i should have waited. tivo has been a big dissapointment.


Yeah. I've actually stopped being an early adopter in most other parts of my life, but honest to goodness, I adore my existing TiVos so much that I had to have the S3 and get rid of the horrible Comcast 6412. Now, I'm severely soured on the company and the S3. Like a fool whose ex-girlfriend treats him like crap and yet he still longs for her, I'm still waiting for this stupid S3, but I'm not happy or excited anymore.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Deacon West said:


> Yes, mine shows the same or something very similar less than 24 hrs after activating new S3. Which leads me to believe that anyone trying to get a lifetimed S1 or S2 on ebay should be very careful as someone could now show a current screenshot of their old unit showing lifetime when in reality the lifetime service on that unit will go away in less than two months. Just a word to the wise. I really like ebay, I just don't want anyone to get burned during this transition time.


A dishonest E-Bay seller could show you anything from a screen shot and ship you another TiVo or a 14lb of bricks...good feedback and PayPal is your only defence. OH if you purchase a lifetime TiVo as soon as you get switch it to your name, after that the original owner would be prevented from doing anything. TiVo can send a message to an individual TiVo to prove who has possession of the unit.


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## btl-a4 (Dec 28, 2005)

Here's a scary thought. I bought my S3 at BB yesterday. Just did the lifetime transfer. During the phone call she asked which TiVo I wanted to transfer from. My original series 1 that I had sold on ebay 10 months ago was still on my account. I don't go online that much and never transferred to the new owner. If I were an evil person I probably just could have told her to use the Series 1 TSN. 

Moral of the story: If you buy an Lifetimed TiVo on ebay make sure it gets switched to your account before you do the transfer.


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## colleenp (Jul 4, 2005)

I just got off the phone with Tivo. They say that they have only allowed the $199 transfer for retail purchases of the S3 for certain individuals that got stuck without an S3 (that they ordered via overnight shipping from Tivo) for their cable appointment. As of now, CS said that only those buying their S3's from Tivo will be eligible for the $199 lifetime transfer; retail buyers will not be eligible. Also, according to CS, Tivo-to-Go and Multi-room viewing will be added in a few months, at SD only for transfers to S2's and Tivo Desktops, but perhaps HD transfers between S3's. He said the reason they are allowing the extra free year of Tivo service on the older units after the subscription transfer is because all the S2 features are not yet supported on the S3's. The intention is that all the features of the S2 will be incorporated into the S3 within that year. He also said that no Tivo's are grand-fathered in for free lifetime subscription transfer; everyone pays $199. If anyone hears anything different, please let me know.


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## SoBayJake (Feb 6, 2002)

colleenp said:


> Also, according to CS, Tivo-to-Go and Multi-room viewing will be added in a few months, at SD only for transfers to S2's and Tivo Desktops, but perhaps HD transfers between S3's.


This seems like a stretch. They *hope* to have it available. Nothing is guaranteed.


colleenp said:


> He also said that no Tivo's are grand-fathered in for free lifetime subscription transfer; everyone pays $199. If anyone hears anything different, please let me know.


If a device is grandfathered, its grandfathered. You can transfer a S1 to an S3.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

I must have missed an announcement.

tivo.com/vip still says retail-purchased tivo's aren't eligible. It's different now?


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## tgibbs (Sep 22, 2002)

smak said:


> I agree with that. Instead of people looking at it from the perspective of allowing MORE people to transfer lifetime, people post how horrible Tivo is because it effects them.


Except, it doesn't affect them. They are still getting what they paid for; they are just eaten up with envy because they see somebody else getting a better deal than they are. There is a valid complaint that TiVo has been slow in shipping, but it seems like TiVo is going the extra mile by allowing customers to refuse delivery (in which case TiVo is out the shipping cost with nothing to show for it). I am a bit surprised to see this sort of anger from early adopters. Face it: early adopters almost never get a good deal. They are more likely to have hardware problems, encounter shipping problems, or see better deals offered to people who buy only a bit later, as the company figures out how best to market their product. If you don't have the temperament to deal with this, don't jump up to get one of the first units out the door. Remember, the lifetime trade-in option is good through the end of the year.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

cwoody222 said:


> I must have missed an announcement.
> 
> tivo.com/vip still says retail-purchased tivo's aren't eligible. It's different now?


Something's different, cause Weakness is now offering it too.

http://www.weaknees.com/series-3-hd-tivo.php


> Get on the Pre Order list now!
> WeaKnees Series 3 TiVos are eligible for the $199 lifetime service transfer! Email for more information.


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## RoanokeHokie (Nov 16, 2000)

tgibbs said:


> Face it: early adopters almost never get a good deal. They are more likely to have hardware problems, encounter shipping problems, or see better deals offered to people who buy only a bit later, as the company figures out how best to market their product. If you don't have the temperament to deal with this, don't jump up to get one of the first units out the door. Remember, the lifetime trade-in option is good through the end of the year.


The fact that the lifetime transfer option is being honored on ANY retail-purchased unit bothers me. As an early adopter, I simply expect the company to be truthful in their communcation. TiVo's CSRs have been consistently caught in "making up the facts" if not lying to TiVo's customers. Why should I believe that the lifetime transfers on retails units are going to stop, or are only for "inconvenienced" customers?

If we were all sitting here, waiting for TiVo to fix their shipping issues so we could take advantage of our exclusive lifetime transfer option, I wouldn't be as bothered. But the only reason I ordered from TiVo was so I could transfer a lifetime subscription, and that seems to have been pointless.

"Allowing" people who have requested their legal right to cancel the delayed order to then refuse delivery because TiVo can't cancel the order isn't TiVo "going the extra mile", it's TiVo trying to do the one (and probably only) thing that could head off a class-action lawsuit.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Hence why I want to see it in writing.

I'm really confused at why everyone thinks it changed when the VIP page said it didn't.

And I saw that about Weakness on another blog this morning but figured it was wrong or premature or something.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

cwoody222 said:


> Hence why I want to see it in writing.
> 
> I'm really confused at why everyone thinks it changed when the VIP page said it didn't.
> 
> And I saw that about Weakness on another blog this morning but figured it was wrong or premature or something.


Just emailed Weakness to see what they have to say about it.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

What is says on their web site is really irrelevant. I called to VIP my retail unit and they let me without any questions.


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## RoanokeHokie (Nov 16, 2000)

ah30k said:


> What is says on their web site is really irrelevant. I called to VIP my retail unit and they let me without any questions.


Well, it's only relevant to me because I believed that, as stated on the web site, only directly-purchased units were eligible for the transfer. To me, the fact that you could VIP your retail unit is another insult, and is the one that stings me the most. But, then, as the thread title clearly states: "Retail lifetime transfers are great, but some of us took you at your word..."


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

RoanokeHokie said:


> Well, it's only relevant to me because I believed that, as stated on the web site, only directly-purchased units were eligible for the transfer. To me, the fact that you could VIP your retail unit is another insult, and is the one that stings me the most. But, then, as the thread title clearly states: "Retail lifetime transfers are great, but some of us took you at your word..."


Sorry man, really. There is really not much happiness anywhere on this whole S3 rollout.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

ingenue007 said:


> i seriously regret being an early adopter. i should have waited. tivo has been a big dissapointment.


This sort of thing happens to early adopters all the time. Shipping glitches, ordering problems, these are fairly common in any early adopter program, not just TiVos. Heck, signing up for a new online game the week it ships is usually a bad idea, too. Things take time to shake out.

TiVo has made some mistakes, but their mistakes have been in the area of not anticipating such a demand and not being able to handle the initial surge in orders. This is a problem that will solve itself as time goes on, and hopefully TiVo will learn from this and do a better job with the initial orders when the Series 4 or Series 5 ships several years from now.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

greg_burns said:


> Just emailed Weakness to see what they have to say about it.


Weaknees' reply below. I love these guys. Replied to my email within 20 minutes. :up: 


Weaknees said:


> Greg,
> 
> Thanks for your email. We're sorry that we have not been able to follow some of the new S3 threads as closely as we'd like. You should feel free to share our email to you, if you'd like.
> 
> ...


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## tgibbs (Sep 22, 2002)

RoanokeHokie said:


> The fact that the lifetime transfer option is being honored on ANY retail-purchased unit bothers me. As an early adopter, I simply expect the company to be truthful in their communcation. TiVo's CSRs have been consistently caught in "making up the facts" if not lying to TiVo's customers. Why should I believe that the lifetime transfers on retails units are going to stop, or are only for "inconvenienced" customers?
> 
> If we were all sitting here, waiting for TiVo to fix their shipping issues so we could take advantage of our exclusive lifetime transfer option, I wouldn't be as bothered. But the only reason I ordered from TiVo was so I could transfer a lifetime subscription, and that seems to have been pointless.
> 
> "Allowing" people who have requested their legal right to cancel the delayed order to then refuse delivery because TiVo can't cancel the order isn't TiVo "going the extra mile", it's TiVo trying to do the one (and probably only) thing that could head off a class-action lawsuit.


I don't think that you are going to get much of a class-action settlement on the grounds of delayed shipment, unless they posted a "received by such-and-such a date or we take it back no questions asked" guarantee. Many merchants charge shipping or restocking fees, so I don't think that you'll have a lot of success on those grounds either. And I doubt if you are going to get much of a settlement on the grounds that somebody else was selling it cheaper, unless TiVo had some sort of "lowest price guarantee" on their web site.

I've noticed that some consumers automatically elevate anything said by a company spokesperson into a "promise." But companies rarely make promises aside from product guarantees. What they tell you may be true today, but that doesn't mean that it isn't subject to revision tomorrow. They could reinstitute lifetime service tomorrow as an option for all S3 owners at a price of $50, and too bad if you paid $200 and gave up lifetime service on your old S2. When TiVo decided to make Home Media Option free, they gave a rebate to some people who paid for the option just before it became free, but there are always some guys who miss the cutoff and are bent out of shape because somebody else got a better deal than they did.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

greg_burns said:


> Weaknees' reply below. I love these guys.


And I have a $100 Weaknees gift certificate I won at TC-CON '06. I know where I'm buying my T3 (eventually, when the dust settles).


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## RoanokeHokie (Nov 16, 2000)

greg_burns said:


> Weaknees' reply below. I love these guys. Replied to my email within 20 minutes. :up:


Thanks for sharing, even if it's just another tidbit that shows just how little TiVo appears to care for its "VIPs".


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

Requesting advice:

I have a S2 (single tunner) with lifetime service. I want to get the S3 and probably do the lifetime service transfer, however I also own a lifetime subscription gift card that expires in about 15 months. 

But I also want to get a new S2 with dual tunner. This way I'll have 2 tivo units with dual tunners. 

Im wondering if I should hold off using the the lifetime gift card and hope for a dual tunner with dvd before the lifetime card runs out, or transfer my lifetime S2 to the new S3 within the next 3 months or so, or etc..... you get my drift. 

Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks.

Joe


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

RoanokeHokie said:


> Thanks for sharing, even if it's just another tidbit that shows just how little TiVo appears to care for its "VIPs".


So, according to your logic, to "take care" of its VIPs, Tivos should have totally alienated everyone else who bought at retail?

Here's what happened:

1. They came up with a policy
2. They launched the product
3. Had major ordering and shipping delays
4. Frustrated customers "went retail" instead
5. In order to prevent a flood of complaints of the "gone retail" people, Tivo modifies the policy in #1 - in order to accommodate as many VIPs as possible.

Except for the ordering and shipping SNAFUs, it sounds like Tivo DID DO the right thing for all their "VIPs".


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## RoanokeHokie (Nov 16, 2000)

tgibbs said:


> I don't think that you are going to get much of a class-action settlement on the grounds of delayed shipment, unless they posted a "received by such-and-such a date or we take it back no questions asked" guarantee. Many merchants charge shipping or restocking fees, so I don't think that you'll have a lot of success on those grounds either. And I doubt if you are going to get much of a settlement on the grounds that somebody else was selling it cheaper, unless TiVo had some sort of "lowest price guarantee" on their web site.


It's not just the delayed shipment that makes it lawsuit material. The key point to the lawsuit is that TiVo claimed that units "ship in 48 hours" and couldn't meet that. At that time, TiVo sent the legally-mandated "your order has been delayed" mail, HOWEVER they did NOT include the legally-mandated "you can cancel your order" instructions. TiVo's CSRs then REFUSED to cancel orders for those who called an insisted on a cancellation. At that point, TiVo's actions may have become actionable. Telling people to refuse shipment is NOT the same as accepting an order cancellation.

Only those individuals who have called TiVo and requested order cancellation would be part of the class, were this to become a class action. By default, any order delivery delay of less than 30 days may be assumed accepted by the customer in the absence of a cancellation request; the failure of TiVo to inform customers in the delay notification e-mail of their right of cancellation may subject TiVo to a fine, but I do not believe there would be any class resistution (other than, perhaps, waiving restocking fees).


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Hank said:


> So, according to your logic, to "take care" of its VIPs, Tivos should have totally alienated everyone else who bought at retail?


I would agree with that. It is a shame that have not, because now they are in the situation they are in.

Everyone who went retail did it knowing their current policy on lifetime transfers and what that was suppose to entail.


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## RoanokeHokie (Nov 16, 2000)

Hank said:


> So, according to your logic, to "take care" of its VIPs, Tivos should have totally alienated everyone else who bought at retail?


Why would enforcing the terms of their offer result in alienating everyone who bought at retail? TiVo's VIP page state, in the terms and conditions, that the "Series3 HD DVR must be purchased through TiVo.com. DVRs purchased through retail channels are not eligible."

Instead, most people who ordered through the VIP offer are stuck with a continuing chain of false promises, from a 48 hour ship statement, to "they'll all go out Friday", to "they all went out Friday" (still standing by that one, TiVoPony?), to "DVRs purchased at retail are not eligible". What promise has TiVo broken to those retail purchasers?

Really, TiVo should just close their online storefront at this point. At minimum they shouldn't be taking more S3 orders until the backlog is cleared out. The only conclusion that I can reach is that TiVo really doesn't care about anyone who ordered direct, but that retail purchasers are met with the red carpet that the VIPs were expecting.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

At this point, you're just projecting your frustration onto Tivo. They're a public company. They want to please as many customer as possible. Yes, they screwed up. But should they continue screwing even more people, or loosen their policy to end up with more satisfied customers, regardless of where they bought their T3? Sure, it sucks to be you, we get that... but if you really look at what the facts are, Tivo still did the right thing. Regardless of their policy change, they'd still have just as many pissed off customers who got caught up in the ordering fiasco. They're pissed ANYWAY. There's not much Tivo can do AS A GROUP to make them all happy. So the next best thing is to allow the retail purchasers to do the LT transfer. It maximizes the total number of happy customers.


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## RoanokeHokie (Nov 16, 2000)

Hank said:


> But should they continue screwing even more people, or loosen their policy to end up with more satisfied customers, regardless of where they bought their T3?


Please, do tell me how telling people, "Sorry, but as stated online, your retail-purchased unit is not eligible?" screws over a single customer? Sure it's a nice thing for TiVo to do, but don't tell me that honoring their own T&C's would have resulted in "screwing even more people."


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

RoanokeHokie said:


> Please, do tell me how telling people, "Sorry, but as stated online, your retail-purchased unit is not eligible?" screws over a single customer? Sure it's a nice thing for TiVo to do, but don't tell me that honoring their own T&C's would have resulted in "screwing even more people."


Ok, I'll answer this, but I'm not in the mood to drag this out all night.

During the fiasco, people who didn't order online reported getting their LT transferred despite the posted Tivo policy. This opened up the "gone retail" path for the people who ordered online, but were frustrated with the order delays. If at that point, Tivo put a halt to the retail-bought LT transfers, you'd have a whole lot more people even more pissed off. So they didn't do it, and in fact stated that they'll allow retail LT transfers. If everything went smoothly, and Tivo could take orders and ship like they had planned, they most likely would have stuck with their original policy. They knew they screwed up, and were doing whatever was necessary to minimize customer frustrations across the board.

And just to let you know, I'm not a member of either group. I have neither ordered nor bought a T3 yet. I'm just an observer without emotion over any of this. I'm sitting it out until the dust clears.


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## RoanokeHokie (Nov 16, 2000)

Hank said:


> During the fiasco, people who didn't order online reported getting their LT transferred despite the posted Tivo policy. This opened up the "gone retail" path for the people who ordered online, but were frustrated with the order delays. If at that point, Tivo put a halt to the retail-bought LT transfers, you'd have a whole lot more people even more pissed off.


I can certainly agree with that - once TiVo opened the door to retail LT transfers, it certainly would have made it worse to stop them. From my (biased) perspective, though, it would have been better for TiVo to not have opened the door to retail LT transfers in the first place.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

RoanokeHokie said:


> I can certainly agree with that - once TiVo opened the door to retail LT transfers, it certainly would have made it worse to stop them. From my (biased) perspective, though, it would have been better for TiVo to not have opened the door to retail LT transfers in the first place.


Yes, and additionally it would have helped to update their website -- even with a temporary policy change. (i.e. "Retail LT transfers allowed until 9/30/06" or some such.) But considering the time frame, I'm sure Tivo was shooting from the hip in order to prevent an even bigger problem. And website changes probably have an entire development/test/production procedure to go through (and at that point, the lawyers would need to be involved - taking even longer).


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

I like powdered sugar and butter on my waffles, how about you?

waffle waffle waffle

TiVo guy shaped waffle....


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## ctakim (May 7, 2006)

Geez, I know you might feel burned but I think that Tivo is just trying to do the right thing and not piss off the greater group of early adopters. They are kinda damned if they do and damned if they don't. 

As for me I've ordered via the website from Tivo.com (only on Sunday) and I'll wait for the unit before upgrading my current lifetime to the S3. I know I can get it retail but I'm traveling on business now and can't shop around. I'm following the website because i know that at somepoint they can start enforcing the no retail lifetime transfer rule. But I'm not mad at them for letting people slide right now. 

Poor Tivo, can't make everyone happy.


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## Lisa898 (Jan 29, 2005)

nothing to see here.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

So has TiVo said anywhere - in writing (either here or elsewhere) - that ALL retail purchases would honor the lifetime transfer?


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## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

cwoody222 said:


> So has TiVo said anywhere - in writing (either here or elsewhere) - that ALL retail purchases would honor the lifetime transfer?


I did it today, and the girl spent some time making sure I was eligible. I suspect they may start making sure that people who go retail have actually placed an order first through tivo.com.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I'm waiting for the outpouring of complaints that leads to TiVo allowing anybody to get lifetime on a Series 3 just by paying $199.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

dswallow said:


> I'm waiting for the outpouring of complaints that leads to TiVo allowing anybody to get lifetime on a Series 3 just by paying $199.


If the outpouring of complaints to date hasn't already done it, nothing will ...


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## tunnelengineer (Jul 21, 2006)

That will not happen anytime soon. That would be cheaper than any lifetime over the past 4 years.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

dswallow said:


> I'm waiting for the outpouring of complaints that leads to TiVo allowing anybody to get lifetime on a Series 3 just by paying $199.


The current deal is to *transfer* an existing lifetime subscription, nobody *gets* a lifetime for their Series 3.


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## slowride (Mar 17, 2006)

Just completed a transfer from S2 to S3 that I bought at Best Buy. No problems with transfer. Tivo rep said they were going to allow retail purchases to do the VIP transfer till the end of the year. 


Take that with a grain of salt.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

vman41 said:


> The current deal is to *transfer* an existing lifetime subscription, nobody *gets* a lifetime for their Series 3.


Well... that's why I'm waiting.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Haven't read through the entire thread, but went through the first few and last few posts. It's clear to me that the OP assumes the following:

1) Tivo always meant to honour lifetime transfers to "retail" Series3 units.
2) Tivo CSRs have a way of knowing if the Tivo was ordered via Tivo.com or otherwise.

Do not assume these things, especially the latter. Given that they had no access to shipping information, could not cancel orders, etc., why would you think they somehow knew if your particular box was ordered through their website? Perhaps the system was flawed and the decision was made to honour any transfer call that came to the specificied phone number, because obviously if you have a lifetime'd Tivo to transfer from, you should've been in on the VIP offering anyway (Ebayers aside).

If Honda was offering a $200 navigation system installed but your car MUST have been purchased from a Honda dealership, and you go out to a Honda dealership and buy a car, then Honda decides that everyone who has a Honda can get the $200 navigation system, it's not Honda's responsibility to provide a discount on the system to all of the people who went out and bought Hondas before they changed the deal. That's what "terms subject to change without notice" means.

Get over it, it's only $100. You were willing to spend $800 on a DVR, and $199 for the transfer. What changed?

This reminds me of a story:

A wealthy man needed some farm work done. He goes and hires three men to help him out, and agrees to pay them $300 each for the day. They spend hours working in the hot sun, but aren't moving fast enough, and there are only two hours left. He goes and hires three more men to come and finish the work. At the end of the day, he pay each of the six men $300. The original three men get angry, saying that they worked all day when the other three worked only a few hours. The wealthy man asks, "What's wrong with that?" The three men get even more angry, screaming that they were cheated.

The wealthy man's reply? "You agreed before you started working to do this amount of work for this amount of money. I have paid you the required amount. I have not cheated you. What I do with the rest of my money is not your concern."


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## RoanokeHokie (Nov 16, 2000)

classicX said:


> This reminds me of a story:
> 
> A wealthy man needed some farm work done. He goes and hires three men to help him out, and agrees to pay them $300 each for the day. They spend hours working in the hot sun, but aren't moving fast enough, and there are only two hours left. He goes and hires three more men to come and finish the work. At the end of the day, he pay each of the six men $300. The original three men get angry, saying that they worked all day when the other three worked only a few hours. The wealthy man asks, "What's wrong with that?" The three men get even more angry, screaming that they were cheated.
> 
> The wealthy man's reply? "You agreed before you started working to do this amount of work for this amount of money. I have paid you the required amount. I have not cheated you. What I do with the rest of my money is not your concern."


Except in this case, the wealthy man didn't pay the original three their $300, instead he said, "Here's an IOU that I might pay you next week, but I will pay these other three men their $300 right now."


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

I think it's more like the wealthy man told the original three workers that he owned all the rooms in the town and if they worked for anyone else, they wouldn't have a place to sleep that night. The next three workers got a job in the next farm for $400/day and the wealthy farmer then let them all have rooms for the night.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

And the wealthy man still can't get a Series 3 delivered from tivo.com, no matter how many times he pays.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

You have missed the point of the story. The fact that others were able to "go retail" and secure S3 units has no bearing on whether or not Tivo should give the people whose orders were delayed any type of refund or special deal.


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## RoanokeHokie (Nov 16, 2000)

classicX said:


> You have missed the point of the story. The fact that others were able to "go retail" and secure S3 units has no bearing on whether or not Tivo should give the people whose orders were delayed any type of refund or special deal.


I saw the point of your story, but I do not see how that point relates to TiVo's current situation.

First, your wealthy man did not mislead his workers; TiVo, though, drew our orders to their site through the "DVRs purchased through retail channels are not eligible" note on the VIP page. (My new curiousity of the day is if this violates any truth-in-advertising laws, but I expect not.)

Second, your wealthy man followed through on his promise and paid his workers; TiVo, though, continues to string their online purchasers along with minimal and/or incorrect information. Even people within the company (*cough*TiVoPony*cough*) seem to be receiving incorrect information.

Third, your wealthy man violated no laws in his actions. I believe TiVo is violating the spirit of the FTC's Mail or Telephone Order Merchandise Rule by refusing to accept order cancellations, and instead placing this responsibility back on their customer to either refuse the shipment or to return the delivered product.


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## Killerz298 (Feb 9, 2004)

Quickest way to get the money freed up is to call your CC company, explain the situation and tell them to reverse the charges from Tivo. I am sure they will do it with no questions asked. Then you don't have to worry about anything else screwing up, or waiting for Tivo to get off their arse and process a refund.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Killerz298 said:


> call your CC company,


How many things does CC stand for around here? I count 3.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

HDTiVo said:


> How many things does CC stand for around here? I count 3.


Credit Card
Cable Company
CableCard
Carbon Copy
Circuit City

Although I think in this instance, he meant Circuit City.


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## tunnelengineer (Jul 21, 2006)

Tivo should have stayed their ground and disallowed all transfers from retail. They now have no control over the situation.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

tunnelengineer said:


> Tivo should have stayed their ground and disallowed all transfers from retail. They now have no control over the situation.


Why?


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## JoBeth66 (Feb 15, 2002)

I had no problem transferring my lifetime from one of the S1's I have to the S3 (not a grandfathered lifetime). I called the VIP number, gave them the service # from the S1 and the one for the S3, and they activated my box, took my credit card #, and transferred the service. Less than 5 minutes on the phone, and he never asked where I bought it.


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## tunnelengineer (Jul 21, 2006)

classicX said:


> Why?


Because that was the terms of the deal straight from Tivo. Many of us ordered day one from tivo due to this and now have a huge shipping fiasco and still don't have the units. If it weren't advertised this way many of us would have bought from retial stores and did the lifetime swap and never had any problems. Allowing retial transfers was an extra slap in the face of those that are still awaiting a delivery from Tivo.

just speculating here, but I would bet if they originally stated that retail transfers were allowed, they would have had less orders and probably not had near the problems they are dealing with now.


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

tunnelengineer said:


> Tivo should have stayed their ground and disallowed all transfers from retail. They now have no control over the situation.


 :up: :up: :up:

Not only did they lose control, but they've lost THOUSANDS of dollars. Maybe HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS? Maybe a MILLION DOLLARS? Over time---all those lifetime'd series 3s that won't be paying $6.95..... Who knows how much.

And they lost ALL my respect--granted that wasn't much after how LONG it took the S3 to even come out--just the tiny amount of respect I had for them for the brief three hour period I thought "VIP" meant something. What a freakin joke.

Oh, my status? I got a DUPLICATE order confirmation yesterday, a WEEK AFTER I FIRST ORDERED.

TiVo Jerry was going to help after I PM'd him, until he saw that I had only just ordered yesterday. He said he felt he should concentrate his effort on those that put an offer in first thing. HA!!! Joke, I say. I've corrected him on his horribly wrong assumption, but it's too late...way too late to not totally screw this up, because they have. Horribly.

THEY COMPLETELY LOST MY ORDER AND STARTED IT FROM SCRATCH A WEEK AFTER THE FACT. WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?

That means they just now entered it. That means I STILL HAVE NO SHIPPING CONFIRMATION. And NO IDEA when it will come.

And I'm back to ZERO RESPECT for the TiVo corporation, as a whole. Can you have NEGATIVE RESPECT?

<fred rogers>

I knew you could.

</fred rogers>

I know I can.
:down: :down:


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## Shawn95GT (Oct 7, 2005)

ThreeSoFar,

I believe the same happend for me. Up until Tuesday this week I got the 2nd confirmation and no tracking info. I called about it Tuesday night and like magic I got a tracking number in e-mail and the box should be here tomorrow.

This post should help you: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=317865


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

tunnelengineer said:


> Because that was the terms of the deal straight from Tivo. Many of us ordered day one from tivo due to this and now have a huge shipping fiasco and still don't have the units. If it weren't advertised this way many of us would have bought from retial stores and did the lifetime swap and never had any problems. Allowing retial transfers was an extra slap in the face of those that are still awaiting a delivery from Tivo.
> 
> just speculating here, but I would bet if they originally stated that retail transfers were allowed, they would have had less orders and probably not had near the problems they are dealing with now.


Terms are subject to change. Just because it wasn't advertised that retail boxes were available for transfers, doesn't mean that it was known beforehand. They could've made that decision at 10:30 AM on 09.12.2006, when they realized there was a problem with the shipping / order system. That doesn't even give them TIME to advertise it. So because they made that change, they somehow owe you something? How is this an insult?

The problems they are dealing with now are due to the shipping problem alone. Some genius decided that two days before the S3 was release, it would be a good idea to upgrade their ordering / shipping system. If someone is that stupid, would it not be so difficult to believe that maybe Tivo has NO WAY of knowing that you bought the system retail when you call the VIP number?


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## richNYC (Feb 27, 2001)

RoanokeHokie said:


> Except in this case, the wealthy man didn't pay the original three their $300, instead he said, "Here's an IOU that I might pay you next week, but I will pay these other three men their $300 right now."


Does the wealthy farmer have a daughter? TTIWWP.


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## HamDoc (Sep 22, 2006)

I have not yet purchased a S3 yet. While it sounds great to buy retail, get it now, potentially cheaper, and get the lifetime transfer, how do we know this is true? People have done it, but suppose a month or two down the line, they come back and say it was a mistake. The website still says that DVRs purchased from retail are not elligible. I would hate to spend all that money only to find out that I have to order from tivo anyway when I can't return my purchase to retail 2 months from now. I called the VIP line and the CSR still insisted that those bought from retail were NOT elligible. Any one have proof that we can refer to?

Ham


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## AnteL0pe (Oct 1, 2004)

Deacon West said:


> TiVo has generally tried to do right by us subscribers


Unless you own computers which run operating systems that aren't Windows.


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

*sigh*

ten days, finally got it today. Comcast comes tomorrow, so it's just in time.

The Gods felt I hadn't had enough yet though, so of course, it's still not 100%.

There's a foot missing. A rubber foot. They sent me a gimp TiVo.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

ThreeSoFar said:


> The Gods felt I hadn't had enough yet though, so of course, it's still not 100%.


Well, you know what they say.... "lucky at cards, unlucky at [tivo] love".


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## acole10000 (Jun 3, 2004)

wah wah wah....stop the crying and do something.

I called the executive offices of Tivo, I politely told them that I was dissatisfied with the err in marketing and that I believed in Shannon and indicted that if I had bought from a major retailer that I could have saved 10% via coupons and without any hesitation I was given a 10% ($80.00) refund.

In the long run, I paid $719 for my Tivo with no tax and no shipping!!!!

I ordered it on the wed 9/13 and it arrived via ground UPS on wed 9/20 - no problems!

Tivo is the greatest thing since sliced bread, Tivo management rocks, and they do take care of their loyal customers  _*all ya gotta do is ask nicely!*_


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

acole10000 said:


> without any hesitation I was given a 10% ($80.00) refund.
> 
> In the long run, I paid $719 for my Tivo with no tax and no shipping!!!!
> 
> I ordered it on the wed 9/13 and it arrived via ground UPS on wed 9/20 - no problems!


Well done. :up:


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

acole10000 said:


> wah wah wah....stop the crying and do something.
> 
> I called the executive offices of Tivo, I politely told them that I was dissatisfied with the err in marketing and that I believed in Shannon and indicted that if I had bought from a major retailer that I could have saved 10% via coupons and without any hesitation I was given a 10% ($80.00) refund.
> 
> ...


It's not the $80. Not for me.

It's the lie that gets me. I'm no VIP. Every freakin schmuck who's ever lifetimed a TiVo is just as important as me.

The lie and the horrible business practice of thowing cash out the window. The tivo.com only idea was a good one. They just screwed up and couldn't handle the demand and then started throwing money out the window. That's stupid. I'd prefer they not do that so they're more likely to stay in business and my $1000 S3 lifetimed unit doesn't become a doorstop.


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