# Tivo vs Freeview PVR



## marcus76 (May 22, 2006)

hi,

I have a Tivo, any reason why i should continue to use it if i only want the channels that freeview delivers? Seems to me some freeview boxes come with dual tuner.

What would i lose by going away from tivo? 

Season pass.....search programs actors etc...what else?

cheers

Marc


----------



## rhialto (Oct 13, 2002)

Because freeview 'PVRs' are dire.

I had to put up with a Topfield for 4 months while moving house - which my reading around led me to believe was the best Freeview DVR available. It was hideously primitive, and required the installation of various extra programs (TAPs) of varying reliability to get it anywhere near useable.

It had no concept of a series, or even a programme. If you told it to record something it remembered the time and channel - so if the programme moved - tough. Its idea of a season pass was to record on the same time and channel each week.

The vanilla machine was reliable enough, but after adding sufficient extras to make it near useable, it would crash on a regular basis.

The manufacturer also didn't seem to understand how these gadgets are best used. The software model they used assumed watching most programmes live, and occasionally making a recording - unlike the TiVo model which assumes most programmes will be watched from the recorded library.

It's so odd that manufacturers of freeview PVRs have an example such as TiVo to draw on, and decide to model their machines on VHS recorders.


----------



## marcus76 (May 22, 2006)

thanks rhialto ,

Ok, so that 1 post alone has convinced me to stay put with the Tivo. I currently have NTL analog. I don't have the requirement to have this anymore, just simply don't watch the TV. The channels i do watch are all on freeview - makes sense to save myself a monthly subscription and get a freeview box.

So, which freeview box works best with a Tivo? - i'll search the forums but if anyone has a burning desire to let me know i'd appreciate it.

cheers

Marc


----------



## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

I will 2nd the freeview PVRs are being very poor, Software wise.


----------



## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

People say freeview PVRs (like the topfiied) are the latest greatest just because they haven't seen a tivo,
They're comparing them to the only other PVR they have seen: sky+
As such a toppy is more fully featured than sky+, but a tivo owner should move to MCE if anywhere.

Speaking of MCE, is there a guide layout like tivo's live-tv overlay? I hate the grid layout that misses off half of the programme titles that most PVRs use.


----------



## starfire (Dec 9, 2001)

Perhaps the new Freeview Playback launching in September will be better? May even be a Tivo 

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds33332.html


----------



## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

rhialto said:


> The manufacturer also didn't seem to understand how these gadgets are best used. The software model they used assumed watching most programmes live, and occasionally making a recording - unlike the TiVo model which assumes most programmes will be watched from the recorded library.


I know this is off at a tangent, but this is a problem I am currently having over on the DS Forums.

Some people are complaining about the TVDrive taking around 7 seconds to change channels. This, of course, is due to the buffer and my Tivo takes about the same length of time.

I suggested that, if people were to move away from the idea of watching shows 'live' then they wouldn't see the channel changes so it would cease to be a problem. However, it would seem that there are a lot of people who still "flick around" the channels looking for stuff to watch  They are, of course, all completely mad 

I don't think I ever 'flicked around' even before I bought my Tivo


----------



## ndunlavey (Jun 4, 2002)

starfire said:


> Perhaps the new Freeview Playback launching in September will be better? May even be a Tivo
> 
> http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds33332.html


Isn't that a "sticker" rather than an actual device?


----------



## ndunlavey (Jun 4, 2002)

marcus76 said:


> What would i lose by going away from tivo?
> 
> Season pass.....search programs actors etc...what else?


You lose season passes, wishlists of all flavours, suggestions, a decent user interface, and the option to expand if you want more disk space, network access, TiVoWeb, etc.

You get repeated recordings (same bat time, same bat channel) instead of season passes, and twin tuners. Some PVRs can have their disc upgraded, and some can be networked.

If you care enough about watching one channel and recording another, you could keep TiVo and spend £30 on a second FV box to watch live TV while TiVo plays with the other.


----------



## teresatt (Dec 21, 2001)

I've had TiVo for over five years fed with Telewest digital cable. I looked into Telewest's new HD PVR but it's software sounded very limited on features compared to TiVo, despite three tuners. However, I did find that I was getting more and more programme clashes that I had to resolve manually as season pass priorities didn't always quite work out how I'd hoped and a few clashes couldn't be resolved. Therefore I bought the Topfield Freeview PVR as nearly all my difficult clashes involved freeview channels.

The vanilla Toppy is pretty useless without any of the extra features provided by TAPS. The EPG layout is dire and it's very difficult to find a programme to record. However, I've loaded it up with loads of TAPs and my Toppy now is fairly useable, but nowhere near as good as TiVo. It's biggest failing is lack of proper series links. With the MyStuff TAP I can set 'Control Timers' which pick up all programmes matching or part matching a title and can have filters applied such as channel and day of week, but it still picks up lots of repeats. Also you can't remove individual planned recordings from the 'Control Timers' as a complete search is always done when MyStuff is started up on power on and all matches are picked up again. Perhaps better TAPs will come along in the future, but for the time being, TiVo is going to be my main PVR.

My biggest problem now is that the picture quality of broadcast TV from both Freeview and cable is so dire a lot of the time, particularly on my 42" plasma screen. Programmes transmitted with a high bitrate look fabulous but unfortunately, the majority of programmes aren't. I also fear that with the advent of HD, bitrates rates for SD programmes will fall further, to make room for HD and to encorage us to switch. They'll say "look how much better HD is" whereas if they gave SD a decent bitrate we'd hardly notice the difference between SD and HD or at least SD would be perfectly acceptable for the majority of people. Therefore, I see that in the near future I may be forced to move to an HD PVR just so that I can get something bearable to watch, although reports of upscaled SD material on Sky's HD box are pretty bad.


----------



## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

teresatt said:


> My biggest problem now is that the picture quality of broadcast TV from both Freeview and cable is so dire a lot of the time, particularly on my 42" plasma screen.


That can be improved by buying a standalone scaler (or using a pc with a copy of dscaler / ffdshow ) Even expensive plasmas often have a poor quality scaler built-in.


----------



## teresatt (Dec 21, 2001)

mikerr said:


> That can be improved by buying a standalone scaler (or using a pc with a copy of dscaler / ffdshow ) Even expensive plasmas often have a poor quality scaler built-in.


High bitrate programmes look very good on my plasma. It's a Panasonic PWD6 which is well respected. My brother-in-law has similar problems with Freeview and Sky on his PWD8. I agree that a scalar would probably improve the PQ overall, but surely there's only so much that can be done when the bitrate is as low as it is on some programmes. Someone made a very relevant comment on another forum - "You can't polish a turd"  .

I know that my plasma is extremely good at downscaling. When I compare the SD and HD output from my son's XBox 360, the difference is amazing. When watching HD games on my SD plasma, I can't imagine how much better an actual HD screen would be. The picture is so much clearer and sharper. It's the same with downloaded high res programmes output from my laptop in HD. They look so much better than any broadcast programmes I receive. This makes me lean towards an HD PVR, particularly if Sky sort out upscaling SD on HD channels and get rid of the forced stretchy vision for 4:3. However, there isn't a compatable HDMI board available for my PWD6, so if HDCP encryption is implemented, I'll be stuffed. I don't want to get an HD screen until they become a bit more mainstream and the specs improve, eg multiple HDMI inputs and possibly 1080i or even 1080p.

I'm pretty much resigned to enduring slowly decreasing picture quality over the next few years while enjoying the use of my fully featured TiVo. It will take an awful lot to make me ditch my TiVo.


----------



## steve ashforth (Dec 14, 2002)

As someone who has enjoyed my Tivo for 3 years and a Freeview PVR for 6 months, I can safely say that I would never ditch my Tivo for a Freeview PVR, or at least not the current generation. However, in defence of my Fusion FVRT90, it does make an excellent back up device to deal with program clashes. I also notice the better picture quality compared to Tivo. 

At £95, I have been very pleased with it and, as long as you go into it with your eyes open and understanding the limitations, I think they are a bit of a bargain.


----------



## B33K34 (Feb 9, 2003)

I think my next migration will be to a media centre PC with a pair of Satellite cards. That should give a tivo like interface, HD and no subscription. I suspect avaiability may be some way off - maybe the tail end of next year. I see Sony are now advertising some very nice looking boxes under the Intel VIIV label (though also very expensive - £900+?) 

In the meantime I've yet to see anything better than Tivo. The freeview playback project might help - my understanding is that some work has been done on specifications so that its' more than a 'sticker'.


----------



## rwtomkins (Jul 14, 2003)

steve ashforth said:


> As someone who has enjoyed my Tivo for 3 years and a Freeview PVR for 6 months, I can safely say that I would never ditch my Tivo for a Freeview PVR, or at least not the current generation. However, in defence of my Fusion FVRT90, it does make an excellent back up device to deal with program clashes. I also notice the better picture quality compared to Tivo.
> 
> At £95, I have been very pleased with it and, as long as you go into it with your eyes open and understanding the limitations, I think they are a bit of a bargain.


Same here, except I have the FVRT200 with twin tuners. So with the TiVo as well, I can record three channels simultaneously! I agree the picture quality of the FVRT is better and it's brilliant value for money, far cheaper than a Toppy. But the software is dire, it's like they've never seen a TiVo or learned anything from it. It's so user unfriendly it's a severe disincentive to recording a programme and I only ever use it as a back-up to the TiVo for programme clashes. But on that limited basis, I'm very pleased with it.


----------



## cyril (Sep 5, 2001)

I have a FVRT200 too, and the software is shockingly bad compared to TiVo.

It is cheap, reasonably stable though.

I only use it to record stuff for the wife that requires subtitles (subtitles are not handled as well by TiVo or MCE).


----------



## Dazbear (Aug 24, 2001)

Just bought a Toppy (Topfield tf5800) after 6 years of great service from my TiVo.

I have been running them both side by side for a month and am now ready to let TiVo go. I was concerned it wouldnt match the TiVo capabilities, but I have to say, that running with the MyStuff TAP insalled it has put TiVo into context - better picture quality, dual recordings, changable skins etc.

Dont get me wrong - TiVo has been fab and was cutting edge when I bought it. I looked into upgrading and networking, but the changes you could make were very limited. TiVo need to get back into the UK market and prove that their new kit cuts the mustard against the modern competiion.


----------

