# Whole house DVR



## dave13077 (Jan 11, 2009)

It looks like Time Warner and others are starting to roll out whole house solutions. I don't understand why Tivo, being the "premier" player in this space is getting so far behind.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/East/about/inthenewsdetails.ashx?PRID=3156&MarketID=144


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

How does that put TiVo behind? TiVo has had multi-room solution available for years. Perhaps you are referring to the CCI problem that affects some customers (mostly TWC markets but some markets for other providers as well) which prevents MRV from working?


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

TiVo MRV is a lot different than a whole house DVR solution.


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## dave13077 (Jan 11, 2009)

moyekj said:


> How does that put TiVo behind? TiVo has had multi-room solution available for years. Perhaps you are referring to the CCI problem that affects some customers (mostly TWC markets but some markets for other providers as well) which prevents MRV from working?


That is one issue. Every channel I receive has the CCI set except the OTA stations. This of course keeps you from transferring to another box.

I also can't pause a program on one box and start it from another. On my Tivo I would have to transfer it ( if I am able) and than have to start from the beginning again.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

dave13077 said:


> That is one issue. Every channel I receive has the CCI set except the OTA stations. This of course keeps you from transferring to another box.
> 
> I also can't pause a program on one box and start it from another. On my Tivo I would have to transfer it ( if I am able) and than have to start from the beginning again.


You also left out having to buy cable cards for every Tivo in the house rather than just the server.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

zalusky said:


> You also left out having to buy cable cards for every Tivo in the house rather than just the server.


CableCARDs aren't required for MRV.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Adam1115 said:


> TiVo MRV is a lot different than a whole house DVR solution.


 Agreed, but not perhaps in the way you were thinking. Just to name a couple of things (leaving out all advantages of TiVo as a DVR compared to cable co. DVR functionality):
1. You are not limited to only 2 recording tuners on master DVR
2. You are not limited to 500GB or less of recording space of master DVR

The TiVo solution works well for me because no channels I record have CCI restrictions.


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## TwiceOver (Jan 4, 2005)

dave13077 said:


> That is one issue. Every channel I receive has the CCI set except the OTA stations. This of course keeps you from transferring to another box.
> 
> I also can't pause a program on one box and start it from another. On my Tivo I would have to transfer it ( if I am able) and than have to start from the beginning again.


As long as it's recorded, you can transfer from the paused point.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

orangeboy said:


> CableCARDs aren't required for MRV.


If you want 4 tuners in a server you only need one card.
If you want 4 tuners on a Tivo you need two Tivos and therefore two cards.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> TiVo MRV is a lot different than a whole house DVR solution.


I understand what you are saying - however I record analog from TWC on 4 TiVo DVRs. that gives me 7 tuners and with drive upgrades I have 3 TBs of storage. MY home network is wried and I can watch any show on any TiVo in the house in real time with commercial skipping. I further have my content categorized and close by the TV most likely to watch it anyway. With good names (like KidsDVDTiVo) I can easily browse the TiVo that will have the content and play it where I am in the house. I can also of course start watching from the paused point.
Further I have movies ripped to my PC and can watch those on any TiVo/TV in my house.
I had all this YEARS ago 

so sure what TWC offers is different, but is not as full featured as what I setup and have used for years with TiVo. Plain and simple.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

zalusky said:


> If you want 4 tuners in a server you only need one card.
> If you want 4 tuners on a Tivo you need two Tivos and therefore two cards.


 Well but the cable co. whole home DVR solutions I have seen only have 2 tuners. The Cisco Explorer whole home DVR (at least the Cox implementation of it) does not accept another DVR as a client, so basically at least right now you are stuck with 2 tuners for whole home DVR. Also with the Cox solution the e-sata port for disk space expansion is essentially broken so you are stuck with 500GB total as well.

So the cable co. solutions while at first glance look promising once you dig down into the details they have plenty of issues and limitations as well.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Time Warner is the same way. It is only 2 tuners and sounds like it works similar to the current FiOS implementation prior to 1.9


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## ncfoster (Jan 22, 2011)

I think the main problem is that Tivo relies so heavily on the monthly fee framework. I know I would like to see a box you could buy that might be 80&#37; of the features, but no fee, primarily for the purposes of streaming recordings from the primary box. When you have to pay so much monthly for each additional box, the current setup is definitely not what I would consider an alternative to a whole-house system. If you assume monthly payments, I think it would be about $43/month to have 4 boxes in a house, most of which presumably would not be recording anything (except maybe suggestions). That just isn't compelling value.

EDIT: My other point being that I know Tivo doesn't really have a great alternative to relying on service fees. The service providers have a lot of other revenue options.


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## MrSkippy53 (Jan 27, 2011)

I agree that the TiVo MRV works very similar to the whole home DVR that is now offered through the provider (ie comcast in my area). 

What I would like to see is TiVo provide better pricing for multiple TiVo unit subs. $9.95 per additional TiVo is to high. 

Whole home TiVo service plan would be very attractive.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

MrSkippy53 said:


> I agree that the TiVo MRV works very similar to the whole home DVR that is now offered through the provider (ie comcast in my area).
> 
> What I would like to see is TiVo provide better pricing for multiple TiVo unit subs. $9.95 per additional TiVo is to high.
> 
> Whole home TiVo service plan would be very attractive.


If they did that, they would have to raise the purchase price of the TiVo drastically. Indeed, you have that very option: it's called lifetime service. I take it, then, you have lifetime service, since you don't like the monthly fees?


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

The bottom line is that they have an old business model and eventually they will fold or have to change. So like many companies they preferred to be dragged into a new business model rather than lead and steal market share.

Just like the cable companies who charge for bundle video versus ala carte and are doing all they can to handcuff media providers for exclusivity. 

I think one of the big reasons Comcast bought NBC was to get part of the content revenue from the front end rather than from the delivery back end.

We are starting to be able watch stuff on demand more and more and in many cases directly from the provider. As that becomes more ubiquitous why do you even need a DVR? Just stream it from wherever. Yea Tivo claims that is what the new high speed premiere is all about. The problem is the streaming sub par at best and everybody else is building it directly into the TVs so why do you need an extra box.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Just recently started looking into TiVo, so be nice...
I use OnDemand frequently, so currently I am sitting on the fence to see what pans out with the Cox VOD-Retail TiVo agreement.

From what I have gathered from reading here, with Cox in Phoenix every recording is blocked with the CCI except the local broadcasts, So transfer to a second TiVo is not possible. Is this correct? What about transfer to a PC?

The inability to use MRV would probably be a deal breaker for me.

I use a laptop w/HDMI for all my internet streaming needs, so the Core DVR and MRV capabilities is most important to me.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Correct. For any channel with non-zero CCI byte TiVo cannot MRV or transfer those recordings to PC. Luckily Cox Orange County only has CCI byte set on Premium channels which I don't care about or record from.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

CoxInPHX said:


> Just recently started looking into TiVo, so be nice...
> I use OnDemand frequently, so currently I am sitting on the fence to see what pans out with the Cox VOD-Retail TiVo agreement.


With a properly configured TiVo, there is virtually no need for On Demand.



CoxInPHX said:


> From what I have gathered from reading here, with Cox in Phoenix every recording is blocked with the CCI except the local broadcasts, So transfer to a second TiVo is not possible. Is this correct?


This is known as MRV. It's true at this time an un-hacked TiVo cannot transfer copy protected programs via any mechanism.



CoxInPHX said:


> What about transfer to a PC?


This is known as TiVo-to-Go. It's a different mechanism, but one cannot transfer protected programs to a PC from an un-hacked TiVo. One cannot transfer protected programs to a PC from any CableLabs certified device.



CoxInPHX said:


> The inability to use MRV would probably be a deal breaker for me.


Those of us who care ignore the limitation. I think you mean TTG, though. MRV is only between two TiVos.



CoxInPHX said:


> I use a laptop w/HDMI for all my internet streaming needs, so the Core DVR and MRV capabilities is most important to me.


You rather lost me, there. Transferring from a PC to a TiVo has no protection limitations. The only caveat is the file must be in a format the TiVo recognizes. TiVos are fairly picky about their file format, but it's not difficult to make sure the file is in a format the TiVo will accept.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

zalusky said:


> The bottom line is that they have an old business model and eventually they will fold or have to change. So like many companies they preferred to be dragged into a new business model rather than lead and steal market share.


Are you saying someone has a greater market share than TiVo? Who?



zalusky said:


> We are starting to be able watch stuff on demand more and more and in many cases directly from the provider.


Of limited quality and quantity. What's more, as the CATV companies see potential revenue slipping away in the form of internet streaming, do you really think they are just going to sit by and watch? Not on your life.



zalusky said:


> As that becomes more ubiquitous why do you even need a DVR?


An ordinary DVR, I agree, or at least I agree it will get there. The TiVo is another matter. The TiVo's most important function is not as a time shifter or a recording device. It is as a content filter. My TiVos present me with hundreds (thousands, actually) of programs, virtually every single one of which I might like at some point to watch. NetFlix doesn't do that. On Demand definitely does not. I have to wade through tons of horse pookey to find one or two things I might like from any streaming provider.



zalusky said:


> Just stream it from wherever.


That assumes you know what it is and where it is apriori. Although sometimes I may know what I want to watch, ordinarily I don't. Just as I usually read through the menu when I go to a restaurant, I usually browse the list of programs to see what I want to watch. If it takes 15 minutes of browsing just to come across a single thing I might like to watch, it's not worth it. I expect my DVR to present me with tons of things I want to watch, and nothing I don't.



zalusky said:


> Yea Tivo claims that is what the new high speed premiere is all about.


I cannot recommend the Premier at this point in time.



zalusky said:


> The problem is the streaming sub par at best and everybody else is building it directly into the TVs so why do you need an extra box.


I'm not going to spend the better part of $10,000 to replace my TVs just so I can stream to them, especially not when I am not interested in what the service provides.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

lrhorer said:


> With a properly configured TiVo, there is virtually no need for On Demand.


I would never assume my needs were the same as others. Not sure what you mean here. With only 2 tuners/TiVo and no ability to transfer between TiVos, I would have to switch rooms to view the third recorded program, where there was a 3-way recording conflict. With OnDemand I can watch the third program in HD the next day on all major networks and many cable networks. Without having to go to the internet and find it. HD OnDemand PQ is much better than internet streaming content in most all cases.

*Cox HD OnDemand Networks*
ABC
FOX
NBC
A&E
AMC
BET
Big Ten Network
Bravo
Concert TV
FEARnet
Food Network
Fuse
FX
HGTV
History Channel
IFC
MTV
Music Choice
Palladia
Speed
Spike
Sundance
SyFy
Tennis Channel
Travel Channel
Univision
USA
VH1
WE tv
*Premium Movie Channels*
Epix
Vutopia
Cinemax
HBO (New as of 1/17/11)
Showtime
Starz



lrhorer said:


> This is known as MRV. It's true at this time an un-hacked TiVo cannot transfer copy protected programs via any mechanism.


So I would not really have a Multi-Room set-up. More like a switch rooms set-up.



lrhorer said:


> This is known as TiVo-to-Go. It's a different mechanism, but one cannot transfer protected programs to a PC from an un-hacked TiVo. One cannot transfer protected programs to a PC from any CableLabs certified device.


So no TiVo-to-Go



lrhorer said:


> Those of us who care ignore the limitation. I think you mean TTG, though. MRV is only between two TiVos.


Not sure what "those of us who care" was referring to? I care, but not enough to make sacrifices to my current service. But, I was referring to MRV and not TTG. MRV is more important to me than TTG. But since I can't do either, the point is now moot.



lrhorer said:


> You rather lost me, there. Transferring from a PC to a TiVo has no protection limitations. The only caveat is the file must be in a format the TiVo recognizes. TiVos are fairly picky about their file format, but it's not difficult to make sure the file is in a format the TiVo will accept.


As far as the TiVo goes I would only use DVR functionality, and not the web apps.
I prefer to use my Win7 laptop to stream all internet content to my TV, rather than use an app on a TiVo or Blu-Ray player. My laptop can play virtually any file type or website many in true 1080p


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

CoxInPHX said:


> I prefer to use my Win7 laptop to stream all internet content to my TV, rather than use an app on a TiVo or Blu-Ray player. My laptop can play virtually any file type or website many in true 1080p


You have to move the laptop from room to room, wait for the laptop to boot up and change inputs on your TV. What kind of remote do you use on your laptop, or do you just control everything from the laptop keyboard?

I would prefer to have an always on device at every TV with the same remote control interface ready to play video content.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I record analog from TWC on 4 TiVo DVRs.


I get more channels over the air than what Comcast offers via analog. Are you doing a lot of manual recordings of the QAM channels that don't have any guide data?


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

CoxInPHX said:


> I would never assume my needs were the same as others.


It has essentially nothing to do with any particular needs. A properly configured TiVo will offer the user virtually all the same programs at their fingertips - and more - as VOD, without the klunky interface or the trouble of VOD.



CoxInPHX said:


> So I would not really have a Multi-Room set-up. More like a switch rooms set-up.


You misunderstand. Multi-Room-Viewing, MRV, is TiVo's name for the protocol they use to transfer content from one TiVo to another. It is different from other transfer protocols.



CoxInPHX said:


> So no TiVo-to-Go


'Not on it or any other unmodified CableLabs certified device. The nice thing about the TiVo is the user - who is the same as the owner - can modify it any way he likes, providing he is not attempting to steal service, of course. The user does not own a leased DVR, so they cannot modify it.



CoxInPHX said:


> Not sure what "those of us who care" was referring to?


Those of us who wish to make use of one or more methods of copying protected programs off a TiVo onto some other device.



CoxInPHX said:


> I care, but not enough to make sacrifices to my current service.


No one said anything about making any sacrifices.



CoxInPHX said:


> But, I was referring to MRV and not TTG. MRV is more important to me than TTG.


Whatever floats your boat. The bottom line is no form of copying protected content is available out of the box for any CableLabs approved product. Streaming between like devices is allowed, but copying to any device is not.



CoxInPHX said:


> But since I can't do either, the point is now moot.


Not entirely.



CoxInPHX said:


> As far as the TiVo goes I would only use DVR functionality, and not the web apps.


With the exception of TiVoWebPlus, I don't really use any "web apps".


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

@lrhorer

So I assume you are referring to a modified or hacked TiVo, and not the off-the-shelf TiVo.
I cannot find any references to TiVoWebPlus for a TiVo Premiere does one exist?
If a modified TiVo Premiere can do all you say, I am interested in learning more.
I just wish TiVo would stream instead of transfer. That would be a big plus.

PM me if needed.

Cox VOD is not at all klunky though, it is very easy to access and rarely has an issue for me. If there is a way to get very HQ HD VOD for all the networks I listed above through a TiVo, then I am really interested.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

shwru980r said:


> I get more channels over the air than what Comcast offers via analog. Are you doing a lot of manual recordings of the QAM channels that don't have any guide data?


No. I forgot to mention I use OTA as well to record some stuff in HD


shwru980r said:


> You have to move the laptop from room to room, wait for the laptop to boot up and change inputs on your TV. What kind of remote do you use on your laptop, or do you just control everything from the laptop keyboard?
> 
> I would prefer to have an always on device at every TV with the same remote control interface ready to play video content.


right, even though your comments were for someone else, I can not stress how easy it is for everyone in the house that at the bottom of any TiVo now playing menu - is the MyVideos folder which shows all the available content on my Office PC - which is mainly my Netflix DVD rentals ripped to the hard drive. Want to watch a movie, just pick up the remote and navigate an easy menu. It has worked rock solid to any TiVo DVR in the house be it series 2 or TiVo HD or premiere. Once the family has watched it, we simply delete the show so as to make room for more movies that are constantly coming to our mailbox. That is my definition of Whole House!


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## MrSkippy53 (Jan 27, 2011)

lrhorer said:


> Indeed, you have that very option: it's called lifetime service. I take it, then, you have lifetime service, since you don't like the monthly fees?


Life service is not the same as a whole home sub I would like to see. A life sub takes 2.5 years to break even. And one would have to pay that for each box. The multiple unit discount is not very impressive.

I do like the TiVo interface and like owning my equipment. My point is that TiVo hardware With Sub would be a much more attractive DVR option if users could save $$ compared to using cable co hardware.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

MrSkippy53 said:


> Life service is not the same as a whole home sub I would like to see. A life sub takes 2.5 years to break even. And one would have to pay that for each box. The multiple unit discount is not very impressive.
> 
> I do like the TiVo interface and like owning my equipment. My point is that TiVo hardware With Sub would be a much more attractive DVR option if users could save $$ compared to using cable co hardware.


Which is why I said earlier that their business model is failing. They do not have a compelling reason to get people to buy their hardware like they used to.
In order to survive they need something entirely new and radically cheaper.

The younger generation does not subscribe to lots of cable channels like the old fogies. They spend more minutes on Facebook then on TV.

Both our kids are professional and well paid. Niether have DVRs and landlines are toast as well. They spend more of their time with DVDs via Rebdbox or the like. They don't watch the news but get their news online.

Tivo aggregation is somewhat laughable given their internet abilities are laughable. They don't have anything new that they did not have 7+ years ago. How many other companies can sit still that long!

Look at Nokia who once was king and now is a wannabe. They just could not see the future.


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## MrSkippy53 (Jan 27, 2011)

zalusky said:


> They do not have a compelling reason to get people to buy their hardware like they used to.
> In order to survive they need something entirely new and cheaper.


I totally agree. If TiVo cost people 1/2 as much to run per month as renting from the C Co. They would get more bizz, hardware and subs.

I do like my TiVos even the sometimes flakey premiere. I have not chinned out the cash for a lifesub because I honestly don't know if they will last (as a company) for the 2.5 years to break even on the cost.

I bet someone will put out a DVR server with Cheap remote clients in the next year or so (without excessive monthly sub costs) like a TiVo premiere as the "server" and a Roku as a client. Or like a sling box with DVR. TiVo does not make it happen first thier done....


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## MrSkippy53 (Jan 27, 2011)

zalusky said:


> They do not have a compelling reason to get people to buy their hardware like they used to.
> In order to survive they need something entirely new and cheaper.


I totally agree. If TiVo cost people 1/2 as much to run per month as renting from the C Co. They would get more bizz, hardware and subs.

I do like my TiVos even the sometimes flakey premiere. I have not chinned out the cash for a lifesub because I honestly don't know if they will last (as a company) for the 2.5 years to break even on the cost.

I bet someone will put out a DVR server with Cheap remote clients in the next year or so (without excessive monthly sub costs) like a TiVo premiere as the "server" and a Roku as a client. Or like a sling box with DVR. TiVo does not make it happen first thier done....


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

MrSkippy53 said:


> I totally agree. If TiVo cost people 1/2 as much to run per month as renting from the C Co. They would get more bizz, hardware and subs.


But TiVo doesn't have the luxury to subsidize the costs of the DVR hardware and services onto those that don't have a TiVo DVR and Service like the cable company can with their inflated pricing for the channels and extras like VOD that the cable company provides.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

zalusky said:


> Which is why I said earlier that their business model is failing. They do not have a compelling reason to get people to buy their hardware like they used to.
> In order to survive they need something entirely new and radically cheaper.


Tivo is in a dire situation. Really the only thing they have going for them is the patents that they are able to enforce and brand loyalty of users such as myself that like the interface.

They've pushed the monthly payment model to the extreme -- IMO the service is just too expensive for what it is (which is little more than guide data service, software update service, and permission to use the device you purchased). They seem to be unable to deliver a functional product at the current price point even with adequate time to repair their mistakes.

The direction they've taken, "The One Box", is being thoroughly farmed out by every device in the marketplace. All of these Internet-content features are already built into my Television, Playstation, and DVD player. Having a fourth device, a Tivo, that can also do all these things is of no value to me.

What they do have going for them is an interface that people like. The viable direction is to produce only software and license it to be embedded in other devices. I don't see myself paying a monthly fee to enable Tivo in an embedded device though. I would probably choose a lesser DVR "service" if it was free.

The next TV I buy will have a DVR built into it. That'll be in about 3 years.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

MrSkippy53 said:


> I bet someone will put out a DVR server with Cheap remote clients in the next year or so (without excessive monthly sub costs) like a TiVo premiere as the "server" and a Roku as a client. Or like a sling box with DVR. TiVo does not make it happen first thier done....


Moxi already put out the DVR (3 digital tuners) with low end clients. You could get a DVR and 2 clients for like 700 to 900$. Digeo that owns Moxi could not generate sales and sold themselves off to someone that supplies MSos.

TiVo has no debt and enough cash on hand to go 3 or more years even if their sub loss accelerates. Buying lifetime is a safe bet - you are only hurting yourself with your flawed analysis


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

smbaker said:


> Tivo is in a dire situation. Really the only thing they have going for them is the patents that they are able to enforce and brand loyalty of users such as myself that like the interface.


they have the contracts with tier 2 MSOs to supply DVRs and deals in multiple foreign countries now. There is the DirectTV TiVo though that is of course in limbo currently.

We in this forum make the mistake of thinking the stand alone market is all TiVo inc. is involved in - that is inaccurate


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## MrSkippy53 (Jan 27, 2011)

orangeboy said:


> But TiVo doesn't have the luxury to subsidize the costs of the DVR hardware and services.....


They also don't have the luxury to lose bizz with over priced subscriptions. They are not the only DVR game intown.

Their bizz model is not going to last much longer. Most people will not be willing to pay 12.95 for the first and 9.95 for each add unit (on top of the content fee one has to pay). TiVo is NOT paying to supply the content. And their overhead for the guide service is CHEAP.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

MrSkippy53 said:


> They also don't have the luxury to lose bizz with over priced subscriptions. They are not the only DVR game intown.
> 
> Their bizz model is not going to last much longer. Most people will not be willing to pay 12.95 for the first and 9.95 for each add unit (on top of the content fee one has to pay). TiVo is NOT paying to supply the content. And their overhead for the guide service is CHEAP.


yeah, with all those millions in profits you would think........... oh wait... nevermind


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

MrSkippy53 said:


> They also don't have the luxury to lose bizz with over priced subscriptions. They are not the only DVR game intown.
> 
> Their bizz model is not going to last much longer. Most people will not be willing to pay 12.95 for the first and 9.95 for each add unit (on top of the content fee one has to pay). TiVo is NOT paying to supply the content. And their overhead for the guide service is CHEAP.


So selling the entire product at a loss is a more sound business model? Tivo already sells (or has sold) the hardware at a loss, with that loss made up in the Service. So you want to take _that_ away too?!


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

orangeboy said:


> So selling the entire product at a loss is a more sound business model? Tivo already sells (or has sold) the hardware at a loss, with that loss made up in the Service. So you want to take that away too?!


Should keep doing what they have been doing the last 4 years.


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## JWThiers (Apr 13, 2005)

zalusky said:


> If you want 4 tuners in a server you only need one card.
> If you want 4 tuners on a Tivo you need two Tivos and therefore two cards.


Just for accuracy. Cable Cards are NOT required for MRV. They are required to decrypt the cable signal. If you are only do not have cable and are OTA only you can record and MRV, TTG, etc to your hearts content. All without a cable card.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

JWThiers said:


> Just for accuracy. Cable Cards are NOT required for MRV. They are required to decrypt the cable signal. If you are only do not have cable and are OTA only you can record and MRV, TTG, etc to your hearts content. All without a cable card.


I know that but that is not my situation.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

orangeboy said:


> CableCARDs aren't required for MRV.





JWThiers said:


> Just for accuracy. Cable Cards are NOT required for MRV. They are required to decrypt the cable signal. If you are only do not have cable and are OTA only you can record and MRV, TTG, etc to your hearts content. All without a cable card.


Smeeked.


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## JWThiers (Apr 13, 2005)

zalusky said:


> I know that but that is not my situation.


Sorry it didn't sound like you were aware of that. (I could have pointed out that you don'T BUY the cable cards either but...)

I might also point out that a 1 year old product (premier) not being able to keep up feature wise with a new product really isn't unexpected. If they really want to "keep up" the Tivo I would like to see is a 4 tuner tivo server (you still only need 1 cable card) that will do a traditional MRV (copy) when it can or stream if requested or the CCI byte doesn't allow for coping (I prefer to copy the content rather than stream). combined with a box that is just a remote client for the server device with a smallish HD for storing local content.

And I know it has been discussed ad nauseum in various fourums around this site (and I really don't want to defend tivo's business model) but unlike the cable company which already has the eyeballs and can afford to offer a "FREE" DVR for $5 month service charge, TIVO has make money somewhere. They can either make a DVR as inexpensive as possible (even at a loss) and charge for the service like we do now OR they can put ads in at various places (I know they still do in that too (much to the consternation of some)) OR they can Increase the amount and intrusiveness of ads and still sell their hardware at a loss OR they can raise the price of hardware eliminate the ads and don't sell the service.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

I am not Tivo nor in the business so I am not about to profess a solution. All I am saying is what they are doing is not working. They have not innovated anything at all different in 5+ years. You can't do that as a company and survive. Nokia was king of the cell phones and they have fallen fast. They need to change things because they can't continue with the current model. There is no growth and their will be increased competition with people who have much bigger pockets.

Perhaps leasing their software to TV manufacturers might make a difference.
Maybe getting into bed with router manufacturers. 

However I am watching traditional TV less an less. With Netflix I have eliminated movies from the search equation. Slowly but sure my video package is shrinking. How many of the younger generation do you see buying large packages except for maybe sports which is not a core market for Tivo anyways because people want to watch it live.

I still have 3 Tivos with cheap pricing but I would think very hard if I had to pay todays rates.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

zalusky said:


> They have not innovated anything at all different in 5+ years.


From wikipedia:
The Series3 TiVo was officially unveiled at the 2006 Consumer Electronics Show[5], and was released to the public on September 12, 2006.

So it's not quite 5+ years yet.

DVR with cable card support is pretty innovative.

(BTW, I think I agree with your points generally.)


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

mattack said:


> From wikipedia:
> The Series3 TiVo was officially unveiled at the 2006 Consumer Electronics Show[5], and was released to the public on September 12, 2006.
> 
> So it's not quite 5+ years yet.
> ...


Ouch! 

Although it was probably done and in testing close to the February time frame and I do agree the cable card was a game changer.


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## Robert2413 (Feb 1, 2008)

I have a Premier and S3 on my network. TiVo could solve the "2-tuner per box" issue by a relatively simple algorithm that requires no major changes to how TiVo works now.

1. If there is a dual-tuner conflict on one box and at least one conflicting program qualifies for multiroom viewing, check to see if the time slot is available for recording by another TiVo on the network or if the show was already scheduled to record on the other TiVo.

2. If the slot is available on the other TiVo and the show was not already scheduled to be recorded on that TiVo, schedule it to record on the other TiVo, automatically transfer to the TiVo from which the request originated, and then automatically delete the show from the recording TiVo. If the show was recorded as a result of its already being scheduled on the other TiVo, do not delete it automatically.

3. If ther requirements for this algorithm cannot be fulfilled, issue a "dual tuner conflict" like the one that TiVo now issues.

There would have to be some logic to account for outlying cases, such as the second TiVo's being unable to record the scheduled show at the programmed time because it was offline, removed from the system, etc., but this is still not too hard.
This is simple and would take care of most of the manual hard labor.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

i.e. cooperative scheduling.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Robert2413 said:


> by a relatively simple algorithm that requires no major changes to how TiVo works now.


actually that would be a major change and the algorithm is not simple _to implement_ as your outlying cases show in themselves.
It can be done but we are not talking about a week of manpower dashing out some code


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> actually that would be a major change and the algorithm is not simple _to implement_ as your outlying cases show in themselves.
> It can be done but we are not talking about a week of manpower dashing out some code


I also suspect it is covered in a patent of which TiVo cannot take advantage, possibly a Replay TV patent.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

CoxInPHX said:


> So I assume you are referring to a modified or hacked TiVo, and not the off-the-shelf TiVo.


Yes.



CoxInPHX said:


> I cannot find any references to TiVoWebPlus for a TiVo Premiere does one exist? If a modified TiVo Premiere can do all you say, I am interested in learning more.


No. As of this moment, I know of no one who has successfully broken the Premier Chain of Trust in a meaningful way. It would require an S3 or a THD at this point in time.



CoxInPHX said:


> Cox VOD is not at all klunky though, it is very easy to access and rarely has an issue for me.


And 100% of the VOD programs are ones you want to watch? That's my main point. With any non-filtered offering, whether from the Internet or from a VOD channel, the greater the volume of content, the greater amount of pure garbage through which one must wade to find something to watch, and the few good things are hidden where one must dig interminably to find them, when in fact one doesn't know to look for them in the first place. The most important feature of the TiVo is not its ability to time shift or its ability to be scheduled at the behest of the user, but rather as a filter to eliminate all the crap - literally thousands of hours worth every day - in which one is not interested and instead provide the user with a list of almost exclusively high interest programming. The second most important feature is the TiVo's ability to generate that list with minimal user intervention.

I sit down, whenever I choose, turn on the TV, and pull up a list of over 2000 videos, not one of which is named Saw, Survivor, Grey's Anatomy, or All My Children. There are no monster truck competitions, baseball games, or gameshows covered in any of them. None of them stars Pia Zadora, Richard Gere, or (with one exception) Adam Sandler. Now if you happen to like any of these things, that's fine, but for me they are nothing but flotsam, as it were. Sitting there literally for cumulatively hours on end skimming past such detritus to try to find something I want to watch is hardly what I consider thrilling entertainment. Instead, the only qualification of the programs available in the NPL is whether I happen to be in the mood to watch the one under the cursor or not.



CoxInPHX said:


> If there is a way to get very HQ HD VOD for all the networks I listed above through a TiVo, then I am really interested.


No, there isn't. The point is, most of those VOD programs are also broadcast on scheduled channels. If the program is a good one (as defined by you), then it will be recorded by the TiVo and waiting for you just as if it were VOD, with the trivial exception that it may be available on VOD a bit sooner. Who cares, though? If you have a nice, full TiVo (or better yet, a video server), then at the moment you might otherwise decide to watch a VOD offering not yet recorded by the TiVo, there is almost certainly at least one - perhaps many - better program already on the TiVo. Just watch one or two of the better programs and then watch the "unavailable" program a day or two - or a month - later. Does it really matter to you that much that you watch Rocky 27 before Terminator 27, as opposed to the other way around?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

lrhorer said:


> I also suspect it is covered in a patent of which TiVo cannot take advantage, possibly a Replay TV patent.


oh yeah, I had not factored that in at all. They would have to know the patents and make sure they are OK. Interesting that DirectTV now onws those patents, wonder if they included those in any cross patent deal with TiVo?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

now as to cooperative scheduling or whole home DVR

I do have the annoyance of scheduling something with 2 conflicts and having to go to another TiVo and schedule it - however that manual step is not that painful and not that often. Not a big deal for me, if TiVo offered a 4 tuner model, I likely would end up with one (depending on cost) but not out of a really pressing need.

The pain points I have no way around - 
1. not recording in digital because of no copy flags - I would rather TiVo get streaming going
2. more content choices - get Hulu + and Amazon prime streaming going - make Netflix better -- get a deal with the networks and offer the VOD via IP

in other words start to make scheduling 'recordings' just for High end quality formats while we get more and more instant streaming and streaming between DVRs


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> oh yeah, I had not factored that in at all. They would have to know the patents and make sure they are OK. Interesting that DirectTV now onws those patents, wonder if they included those in any cross patent deal with TiVo?


Why would TiVo not have bought Replay and grabbed those patents before Directv? It seems like that would have been a good idea. I thought Directv had purchased Replay for a steal of a deal. Was that not true?


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> now as to cooperative scheduling or whole home DVR
> 
> I do have the annoyance of scheduling something with 2 conflicts and having to go to another TiVo and schedule it - however that manual step is not that painful and not that often. ...


I wanted that and a way to delete the content on the remote TiVo. It just occurred to me that you can add recoding tot he remote TiVo with the My TiVo web interface and I just brought an old Windows laptop back from the dead that I can keep at the TV chair. Deleting, AFAIK, not so much.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

netringer said:


> I wanted that and a way to delete the content on the remote TiVo. It just occurred to me that you can add recoding tot he remote TiVo with the My TiVo web interface and I just brought an old Windows laptop back from the dead that I can keep at the TV chair. Deleting, AFAIK, not so much.


Maybe William McBrine can add a panel in his python network remote control, so that if the Now Playing List or My Shows is selected, the list of shows could be displayed, and accurate remote deleting could take place.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> oh yeah, I had not factored that in at all. They would have to know the patents and make sure they are OK. Interesting that DirectTV now onws those patents, wonder if they included those in any cross patent deal with TiVo?


You're asking me?


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> now as to cooperative scheduling or whole home DVR
> 
> I do have the annoyance of scheduling something with 2 conflicts and having to go to another TiVo and schedule it - however that manual step is not that painful and not that often.


I agree. I see a number of people going on and on about how 4 tuners is a must. I just don't see it. A better solution is a software update that makes conflict resolution with two tuners easier. This would allow the feature to be implemented without us having to buy more hardware.



ZeoTiVo said:


> Not a big deal for me, if TiVo offered a 4 tuner model, I likely would end up with one (depending on cost) but not out of a really pressing need.


Mmm. 'Me, either. While adding a feature to existing hardware won't induce people to buy new hardware, I just don't think four tuners will be that big of a customer draw. I surely would not dump my S3 class TiVos in favor of a new DVR just because it had 4 tuners, and given a choice between a DVR with 4 tuners and an otherwise identical DVR that is $50 cheaper but with only 2 tuners, and I'll take the 2 tuners. At $25, I might opt for the 4 tuner model.



ZeoTiVo said:


> The pain points I have no way around -
> 1. not recording in digital because of no copy flags - I would rather TiVo get streaming going


There are always ways around. Such issues are merely an obstacle to overcome.



ZeoTiVo said:


> 2. more content choices - get Hulu + and Amazon prime streaming going - make Netflix better -- get a deal with the networks and offer the VOD via IP


No, thanks.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

lrhorer said:


> There are always ways around. Such issues are merely an obstacle to overcome.


if you wnat to mod the TiVo hardware and then hack the TiVoApp there is a way around the no copy flag, but I would rather see TiVo introduce streaming and save me the worry if the latest update will have some issue with the mod.
also on the premiere this can not be done at all yet.

so what is your way around the no copy flag on a premiere other than recording from analog channel


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

I was told by a local Comcast Executive that the Comcast VOD programming would be available via IP to TiVo users this summer. He is usually right about 35% of the time.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Regarding the number of tuners well I have 6 now and never really need more than 4 and could live with 3 pretty easy. Of course I am OTA only so I only really have 6 networks to record from but most cable networks rebroadcast all their shows several times per week so I guess that evens it out. 

Honestly the reason I would like to see TiVo go to split whole house system is so they can break the DVR functions away from the Internet access functions and maybe get their software working correctly. They could have their main unit be a remote unit that you could add tuners or storage too it at will and would have the DVR software on. The units attached to your TV would be like a Roku or a Google TV device with the main DVR unit just being another device it would access to stream video from. 

Of course this type of setup would cost more than single TiVo but would likely be close to what we spend on having multiple TiVos and also would be an easy way for people to pick the tuners they want (OTA, cable, dish, direct etc.) if thruway happens. 

Thanks,


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

MrSkippy53 said:


> I agree that the TiVo MRV works very similar to the whole home DVR that is now offered through the provider (ie comcast in my area).
> 
> What I would like to see is TiVo provide better pricing for multiple TiVo unit subs. $9.95 per additional TiVo is to high.
> 
> Whole home TiVo service plan would be very attractive.


That is why it makes sense to get lifetime service on your boxes. I have three lifetime subs that I have collected over the last several years. You can amortize the cost of a lifetime sub over three years - after that the TiVo is free!

I would like to see TiVo create an appliance for non-subbed streaming. It would address the issues created by the CCI code and allow individuals to realize the value of MRV sooner.


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Moxi already put out the DVR (3 digital tuners) with low end clients. You could get a DVR and 2 clients for like 700 to 900$. Digeo that owns Moxi could not generate sales and sold themselves off to someone that supplies MSos.
> 
> TiVo has no debt and enough cash on hand to go 3 or more years even if their sub loss accelerates. Buying lifetime is a safe bet - you are only hurting yourself with your flawed analysis


Tivo just works for me and my family- we use MRV all the time and almost evrything we record is copy freely by my cableco. That being said, I would love to augment the 4 Tivos I have with a couple of clients that would cost $99 or less with no monthly or a very minimum monthly fee to allow them to connect to my other tivos for streaming. Heck, if they had tuners in them, I'd even spring for another cable card for each so I'd have a dedicated tuner for the TV (which would eliminate a box rental in my all digital service).


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

ZeoTiVo said:


> now as to cooperative scheduling or whole home DVR
> 
> I do have the annoyance of scheduling something with 2 conflicts and having to go to another TiVo and schedule it - however that manual step is not that painful and not that often. Not a big deal for me, if TiVo offered a 4 tuner model, I likely would end up with one (depending on cost) but not out of a really pressing need.


It would be really nice if TiVo would pool your tuners to adjust for those conflicts. I have three TiVo's - so six tuners. If I try to schedule something with a conflict - then I would love TiVo to transfer the recording to an available tuner on another TiVo.

How many times have you been watching a show and you get the notice that the channel is going to change to record XYZ and you notice both tuners are now going to be used. You either have to change the channel or miss your recording. It would be great to get an option to: "would you like to transfer this recording to the Bed Room TiVo."

I am sure there is no patent that would prevent that!


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

bradleys said:


> It would be really nice if TiVo would pool your tuners to adjust for those conflicts. I have three TiVo's - so six tuners. If I try to schedule something with a conflict - then I would love TiVo to transfer the recording to an available tuner on another TiVo.
> 
> How many times have you been watching a show and you get the notice that the channel is going to change to record XYZ and you notice both tuners are now going to be used. You either have to change the channel or miss your recording. It would be great to get an option to: "would you like to transfer this recording to the Bed Room TiVo."
> 
> I am sure there is no patent that would prevent that!


Bingo we have a winner. This happens to me multiple times a day every day. I either have to cancle the recording or go to another room. hopefully this is on the burner so I might see this feature in my lifetime.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

jrm01 said:


> I was told by a local Comcast Executive that the Comcast VOD programming would be available via IP to TiVo users this summer. He is usually right about 35% of the time.


Wouldn't this require ALLVID?


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

mattack said:


> Wouldn't this require ALLVID?


I don't think so. Comcast could use xfinity as a way of providing TiVo owners VOD without needing a tru2way box. They would need to create an HME and provide a way for TiVo Search to see into it, but that is all that would be needed. For Comcast users it would be far better than Hulu Plus.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

ufo4sale said:


> Bingo we have a winner. This happens to me multiple times a day every day. I either have to cancle the recording or go to another room. hopefully this is on the burner so I might see this feature in my lifetime.


OK, that is your preference for watching Live TV then. That may be a handful of TiVo users that experience this issue of both tuners recording while they want to watch something live at same time. Since I do have multiple TiVo DVRs and thus end up recording 3 or 4 things at the same time I rarely watch anything via the live buffer.


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

jrm01 said:


> I was told by a local Comcast Executive that the Comcast VOD programming would be available via IP to TiVo users this summer. He is usually right about 35% of the time.


LOL - not a great track record, huh?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

ZeoTiVo said:


> OK, that is your preference for watching Live TV then. That may be a handful of TiVo users that experience this issue of both tuners recording while they want to watch something live at same time. Since I do have multiple TiVo DVRs and thus end up recording 3 or 4 things at the same time I rarely watch anything via the live buffer.


I would guess that you are more of the exception than the rule as opposed to the other way around. When you have a family of 4 with different tastes a lot of different things get recorded. And a lot of live TV gets watched. I still like to go browsing about the cable channels to see what might be on.

There is no way TiVo is going to outway the pleasure of channel surfing from I would say 90% of the users.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

bradleys said:


> I would guess that you are more of the exception than the rule as opposed to the other way around. When you have a family of 4 with different tastes a lot of different things get recorded. And a lot of live TV gets watched. I still like to go browsing about the cable channels to see what might be on.
> 
> There is no way TiVo is going to outway the pleasure of channel surfing from I would say 90% of the users.


I have 4 children ages 12 to 16 and a wife who likes to watch live TV every so often. Now I also have 4 TiVo tuners on the main TV in 2 boxes. The kids room has a single tuner ToshiVo with DVD and the master bedroom has a dual tuner.

So our viewing habits are likely very similar but I upgraded the drives and do a lot of Keep at most 2 for shows my wife might watch live during the day like Oprah or game shows and her fave soap. I also turned off suggestions since I do setup things I like to record. Very rarely do we have a conflict on live TV and in those cases we just flip to the cable feed directly into the TV.

anytime there are polls around here on recorded vs live the recorded is typically somewhat more - so throwing out a number like 90% would need something to back that up.

Also TiVo does not outweigh the pleasures of channel surfers and indeed with the genius of adding the live buffer and enabling trick play in it, channel surfing on a TiVo is much better than channel surfing without, the ability to pause TV, no matter how I am watching it makes watching while having a life with 4 kids so much easier


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

The TWC multiroom DVR is kind of a crappy implementation from my talks with TWC. You get the DVR then each additional room you want to add is like an additional $9.95 a month. Plus it still runs that horrific software their DVR has.


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## Ennui (Sep 2, 2008)

KungFuCow said:


> The TWC multiroom DVR is kind of a crappy implementation from my talks with TWC. You get the DVR then each additional room you want to add is like an additional $9.95 a month. Plus it still runs that horrific software their DVR has.


Cox in San Diego just started a multiroom DVR thing. The bummer is that they coupled some 6 new HD channels with the package. So far, the only way to get the channels is to buy the multiroom DVR package. Not likely for me as I have two TiVo HD's and a Premiere, all on lifetime packages. All are on my wireless internet in the house so I can see all them from any one.

Upgraded from one TiVo because Cox said they are going to SDV (tuning adapters) and they will work with TiVo's but not CableCards. So far, this has not happened even though it was scheduled for January 18.

Monthly charges for the CableCards are $2/month. Not bad!


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> OK, that is your preference for watching Live TV then. That may be a handful of TiVo users that experience this issue of both tuners recording while they want to watch something live at same time. Since I do have multiple TiVo DVRs and thus end up recording 3 or 4 things at the same time I rarely watch anything via the live buffer.


I didn't watch anything "live" even when all I had was a single tuner S1 TiVo. I haven't watched a single "live" program in over 11 years. It's a very rare occasion that I watching something even the same day, rather than days or even weeks later.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Ennui said:


> Upgraded from one TiVo because Cox said they are going to SDV (tuning adapters) and they will work with TiVo's but not CableCards.


This is false. The TA requires CableCards. At this point all devices, even CATV owned DVRs and STBs and 3rd party tru2way devices, require CableCards.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

bradleys said:


> There is no way TiVo is going to outway the pleasure of channel surfing from I would say 90% of the users.


*PLEASURE??!!* I think you mean torture, not to mention a complete waste of time, and a huge one. Exactly what is pleasurable about spending ultimately thousands of hours flipping endlessly through mountains of crap you have no intention of ever watching, only to find maybe one program in a hundred that might have been of interest if it were not ruined by having missed the first ten or twenty minutes? Completely eliminating "live" TV is the 2nd and 3rd best things the TiVo does.


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## Ennui (Sep 2, 2008)

lrhorer said:


> This is false. The TA requires CableCards. At this point all devices, even CATV owned DVRs and STBs and 3rd party tru2way devices, require CableCards.


I am talking about CableCards in the TV; no box at all. That is what I had on two of my TV's. Letter from Cox said needed box. No way to connect otherwise. I have four Cisco STA1520 TA's now that Cox shipped me for no charge but I have not connected them yet.


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## Sturmie (Jun 11, 2007)

so, i'm assuming there is no way to get my cable company to remove CCI bytes, is there? i have 4 x TiVos (2 x S3, 1 x HD and 1 x Premiere)...it would be really nice to have to record Mickey Mouse Clubhouse and Chuggington on ALL of them since i can't transfer them. also, does anyone know if TiVo is working on a way around this? how can DirecTV let you stream ANY show (even Showtime and HBO ones) to ANY of its DVRs?


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## MrSkippy53 (Jan 27, 2011)

Sturmie said:


> so, i'm assuming there is no way to get my cable company to remove CCI bytes, is there? i have 4 x TiVos (2 x S3, 1 x HD and 1 x Premiere)[\quote]
> 
> On the S3 or THD you can hack them to remove the CCI. But not on the premiere.
> 
> ...


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## Sturmie (Jun 11, 2007)

thanks! just answered your PM.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

Sturmie said:


> how can DirecTV let you stream ANY show (even Showtime and HBO ones) to ANY of its DVRs?


You answered your own question. DirecTV *STREAM*s instead of copying, which is what TiVo DVRs do. Since no copy is made, there is no violation of the copy control restriction.

Streaming is one of the most asked for product improvements from TiVo. Keep in mind that streaming works for MRV, but will not help with TiVo ToGo. there copying is what it is all about.


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## Sturmie (Jun 11, 2007)

CuriousMark said:


> You answered your own question. DirecTV *STREAM*s instead of copying, which is what TiVo DVRs do. Since no copy is made, there is no violation of the copy control restriction.
> 
> Streaming is one of the most asked for product improvements from TiVo. Keep in mind that streaming works for MRV, but will not help with TiVo ToGo. there copying is what it is all about.


yeah, i did some more digging around after i posted and saw the posts about streaming vs. copying...makes sense, i guess. so if "streaming works for MRV",. then why can't we stream copy-protected shows? maybe i misunderstood what you were saying or you meant "streaming WOULD work for MRV". personally, i have no need for TiVo ToGo.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

Sturmie said:


> yeah, i did some more digging around after i posted and saw the posts about streaming vs. copying...makes sense, i guess. so if "streaming works for MRV",. then why can't we stream copy-protected shows? maybe i misunderstood what you were saying or you meant "streaming WOULD work for MRV". personally, i have no need for TiVo ToGo.


Short answer, we can't because TiVo does not offer a streaming protocol between their DVRs at this time.

Long answer, TiVo's MRV is implemented using copy not streaming protocols. TiVo would need to update their software to offer streaming. Streaming requires a better network and more capable DVRs than a copy protocol does, but the TiVo S3, HD, HDXL, Premiere and Premiere XL all have the horsepower to stream. However, if the users network is not up to snuff it will work very badly for them. DirecTV addresses that by building a dedicated home network bus, just for streaming and nothing else, into their setup. They call it DECA, but is just MOCA that is customized for DirecTV. With the dedicated DECA bus between their HD DVRs and HD receivers, they can insure they won't have to deal with user's own possibly crappy home networks.

I don't see TiVo offering streaming outside of whole home system provided to cable companies like RCN and suddenlink where they will build MOCA into the boxes to provide the foundation for a good user streaming experience.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

Sturmie said:


> ...personally, i have no need for TiVo ToGo.


Some (many?) have a different opinion than yours on that subject.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

orangeboy said:


> Some (many?) have a different opinion than yours on that subject.


Yes, people like me who use it extensively. For many things I value it above HD.


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## jayman8994 (Mar 6, 2011)

Can't help sry.


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## daxem (Jul 22, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> Time Warner is the same way. It is only 2 tuners and sounds like it works similar to the current FiOS implementation prior to 1.9
> 
> The TWC product allows for multiple DVRs within the solution. So from what I learned you could have a total of 4 DVRs, meaning 8 tuners and they can all stream to each other. The show list provides one unified "recorded show" list. I just watched a live demo of the product with 4 DVRs and 4 receivers. They worked seamlessly.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

orangeboy said:


> Some (many?) have a different opinion than yours on that subject.


Certainly I am one. OTOH, he did qualify his statement with the term, "Personally".

Hypothetically, one might be able to institute a "move" protocol that disabled all access to the source program, copied the source program to a new location, and then deleted the source. Technically speaking, this might arguably meet the CableLabs requirements. Short of that, however, a streaming protocol is quite different from a copy protocol in several ways, not the least of which being the source protocol never resides to any significant extent on storage system of the target device.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

CuriousMark said:


> Yes, people like me who use it extensively.


Amen. 'Daily, more like - all but continuously.



CuriousMark said:


> For many things I value it above HD.


Well, that may be a bit of an overstatement, but not much. To be sure, the HD aspect would be of rather little value without the ability to transfer, but OTOH, the ability to transfer would be of relatively little value to me without HD. They's something oof a package deal, for me. Fortunately, I have both.


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## MrSkippy53 (Jan 27, 2011)

I don't think people home network would be a limiting factor for streaming HD. I often stream Netflix in HD over WIFi on my Roku. The limiting factor is my Internet connection speed through comcast. Usually get ~8mb. 802.11 B wifi is 11Mb, G 54mb.. Wifi B could handle HD streaming if done correctly. Netflix and Roku under 8mb.. Moxi and Moxi Mates can stream up to 3 boxes at a time.

TiVo should beable to Also.. But after a year of still not fixing the HDUI I doubt TiVo will support the software for it..


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

daxem said:


> The show list provides one unified "recorded show" list. I just watched a live demo of the product with 4 DVRs and 4 receivers. They worked seamlessly.


Is the to do list/season pass list equivalent unified too, or does each recorder have a list of what it's going to record? (I would design it as each recorder having its own list of season passes _unless it can connect to its master recorder_.. No, I don't know offhand how to do the UI for that.. but if somehow your network went down, you'd still get some recordings done.. but if your network was up, you'd get as many recordings as tuners.)


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