# Is it true that I can't use MOCA with a TiVo S2 (single tuner)?



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

It looks like according to this FAQ at tivo.com I can't do this.

My common sense tells me it shouldn't make a difference what TiVo it is, so long as the TiVo can be networked to ethernet, I'd've thought it could be networked with MOCA.

That's bad news to me if I can't do this.

Here's my situation: In my house I have Time Warner cable TV, Timer Warner cable based internet (aka Roadrunner), a wired/wireless router, and 4 TiVos: (1 Premier, 1 TiVo HD, and 2 S2 single tuner models.)

The TiVo HD is mine, and the other three all are my wife's. We also have an NAS and use pyTiVo to archive her shows to the NAS. Also, all 4 TiVos are wirelessly connected, because my house has no ethernet wiring in it at all.

Our problem: pyTiVo often has glitches that we think are caused by using wireless networking. Often a show will start transferring, and get stuck in the middle, and then I have to stop and restart the pyTiVo server, and requeue up whatever shows my wife wanted to archive. Plus wireless transfers are slow.

I was hoping to solve the problem with MOCA. The good news is I haven't purchased any MOCA adapters yet, and wanted to confirm if MOCA will work for us before plunking down the dough.

The 2 TiVos my wife considers most important for setting up with a wired network connection are her two S2 (single tuner) TiVos. She reasons that copywrite protection aflicts her Premier, so she can't archive a lot of those shows anyhow, but she'd like to go to town with her S2's.

So am I out of luck with a MOCA solution?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yes, if you hook up an Ethernet adapter, you can then in turn connect that to a MoCA adapter. The TiVo wouldn't even know the difference. The chart you link to just shows "Yes" for the models with built-in Ethernet. (And if you require personal testimony: Yes, I have actually done this. Series 2 ST -> USB -> Ethernet -> MoCA.)

Meanwhile, be sure to upgrade to the latest pyTivo. I seem to have achieved some improvement in beacon stability (still far from perfect, though).


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Thanks for this great news.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Say, here's a followup question: I'm thinking of moving my TiVoHD into the same room as one of my wife's S2s. Does anybody know if I could hook both into the same MOCA adapter? To do it, I'd think I'd have to split the coax, as well as an ethernet cable.

1. Could I run a single coax from the wall to the MOCA adapter, then split the coax coming out of the adapter, running one to the S2, and the other to the TiVoHD (well actually the TiVo HD has a tuning adapter, so I'd be running it to the tuning adapter, which is itself connected to the TiVoHD.)

2. As for the ethernet cable that should run from the TiVo to the MOCA adapter: With two TiVos, could I have some kind of ethernet splitter to accomplish getting both TiVos into the same adapter? If so, can it be a cheap ethernet splitter like this one, or does it need to be an actual hub or switch?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

You need a switch (or hub, but nobody bothers making hubs anymore). A "splitter" has no place on an Ethernet network. Even the description of that... thing... you linked to, says that you should only have one connected device on at a time. TiVos are on all the time.

A switch is cheap now, which is why nobody makes hubs anymore.

http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Wireless-Ethernet-Network-Desktop/dp/B00CPU8IYI/


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

No. All that little connector does is make use of the fact 100BaseT only employs 2 pairs of conductors out of the total 4 in the typical Cat-5e cable. Normally, 100BaseT uses conductors 1, 2, 3, and 6. That splitter takes one input and bridges 1 - 4, 2 - 5, 3 - 7, and 6 - 8, allowing two sets of 100BaseT signals on a single Cat-5e cable.

You will need a switch. You can get one for under $15, shipped. Newegg has one right now for $9.99 + $2.99 shipping.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

wmcbrine said:


> A "splitter" has no place on an Ethernet network. Even the description of that... thing... you linked to, says that you should only have one connected device on at a time.


Hmm. I missed that. Either this isn't what I think it is, or else the description is in error. 'Back in the days when 10BaseT was the norm and 100BaseT was a luxury, we did use a few of the pair splitters. One on each end allowed us to serve two hosts on two ports of a switch using only one house drop. Either way, it's not what he needs.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

I've ordered the following equipment:

From bestbuy.com

one pair of MOCA adapters. (I thought I'd hook one up to the router, and one to one of my wife's TiVos first to make sure I'm happy with it before I get additional MOCA adapters.)
One UPS battery backup. I think it's suppose to handle 350 watts for about 25 minutes. I figure each of our four TiVos has a UPS on them, and when you think of it, the PC that's running pyTiVo server is like a 5th TiVo, but it has no UPS on it. This has caused problems, because my house gets a fair amount of brief/quick power interuptions, and it causes pyTiVo to go down, which affects my wife's activities, and she gets annoyed at me and asks me what kind of product is this pyTiVo. She used to complain I should have simply gotten a fifth TiVo. I told her TiVos are prone to power interuptions just like pyTiVo is, so her suggestion doesn't hold water. And pyTiVo + NAS = way more space than a fifth TiVo would have given her, and she's admitted she has enough tuners, so we didn't need another lifetime sub + guide data for a fifth TiVo anyhow.

From Amazon.com

Two USB/ethernet adapters, one for each of our S2's.

Also, the UPS has arrived, and I just came back from the store (avoided shipping charges by doing store pick-up). My plan for the UPS (which has 4 battery backup outlets + 4 surge protect outlets) is actually to plug in these 4 devices into the battery backup slots:


CPU that's running pyTiVo
router
modem
Ooma (internet based telephone)

I added up the wattages of these 4 devices, and I'm okay to do this. But just as I typed this, I realize I should have included a 5th item: the NAS. Darn. And it only has 4 battery backup slots on it. My idea was that internet, our phone, and pyTiVo would not be interrupted by a < 25 minutes power outage.

I think I'll just surge protect the Ooma, and battery backup the NAS. In my experience, the ooma bounces back from power outages with no action by me, not even a button push. When the NAS goes out, I have to push a button to power it back on, plus I have to log each PC in the network into the NAS, as it's password protected.

So this will still work out fine. I'm looking forward to hooking all this up.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

A simple $7 power strip will take care of the lack of power outlets.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

lrhorer said:


> A simple $7 power strip will take care of the lack of power outlets.


I thought that it was verboten to add a power strip to a UPS.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

timckelley said:


> I that it was verboten to add a power strip to a UPS.


If you are careful to make sure that it does not have surge suppressors built in and are also carefull not to overload the UPS by plugging too much into the strip, you should be OK.


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## GBL (Apr 20, 2000)

I use Y-power cables all the time to hook small wattage devices to a UPS, like 
this:


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## stahta01 (Dec 23, 2001)

GBL said:


> I use Y-power cables all the time to hook small wattage devices to a UPS, like
> this:


Never thought of looking for something like that.

I found a similar solution here.
http://www.amazon.com/Ziotek-ZT1212518-Liberator-Through-5-Pack/dp/B003YFIRR6/ref=pd_cp_e_1










Tim S.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Well I hooked up the MOCA equipment, but the TiVo is not detecting the network, and also the coax light on the MOCA is not lit up (thought the power and ethernet are lit up).

I'm googling around right now to see if I can figure out how to troubleshoot it.

I did put an adapter between the all and my cable modem, and my internet still works, so I figure I did that part right.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

GBL said:


> I use Y-power cables all the time to hook small wattage devices to a UPS, like
> this:


Thanks for this. I'll probably get this or something similar.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

I tried hooking MOCA to a different TiVo and it worked. The one that works is physically in the adjacent room to where the router is, and the one that doesn't work is a bit farther, but not that far.

The other thing is, the one that doesn't work is on a coaxial outlet we had added when we moved in here. I wonder if Time Warner took our already split line, and split one of those lines to provide this extra outlet, instead of going back to the main splitter and adding a split at that point. Meaning, I wonder if the signal is too weak or something.

Edit: I'm wrong - this outlet already existed when we bought the house. We simply had Time Warner activate it because we wanted a TV there.

I just looked, and I see a main box on the side of the house labeled "Time Warner" with a bunch of coax cables coming out of it. Most of them go sideways, taking a direct route to the room they go to, but one of them goes straight up to almost the apex of our roof, and then enters our attic. (It's a one story house.) I'm guessing that from there it must come down through the walls to the kitchen, which is the where the TiVo that's not working with MOCA is located. Could it be that the cable run is too long for MOCA to handle? You'd think if the signal is good enough for the TV shows to get tuned to, it'd be good enough for MOCA.


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

Are you able to open the box and see how the cables are connected from the feed from the street to the runs in your house? There could be a splitter on that line that is filtering out the MoCA signal, or it could be a completely separate cable line altogether. If there's a splitter, you have to make sure it's one that'll pass at least up to 1GHz (although I use the satellite ones that go up to 2.4GHz).


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

CuriousMark said:


> If you are careful to make sure that it does not have surge suppressors built in and are also carefull not to overload the UPS by plugging too much into the strip, you should be OK.


Surge suppressors in outlet strips are generally just MOVs (metal-oxide varistors) which are supposed to appear like open connections at normal voltages, so how would they be a problem on the output side of a UPS which should be preventing any spikes from getting to it in the first place?

If it's because they don't put out a true sine wave, a little raggedness in the rise time shouldn't cause spikes up around 300 or 600 Volts.

If it's putting out something that can make the MOVs in a power strip go into conduction, is it safe to use it to power electronic gear?


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

windracer said:


> Are you able to open the box and see how the cables are connected from the feed from the street to the runs in your house? There could be a splitter on that line that is filtering out the MoCA signal, or it could be a completely separate cable line altogether. If there's a splitter, you have to make sure it's one that'll pass at least up to 1GHz (although I use the satellite ones that go up to 2.4GHz).


I can check and see if there's a way to open the box, but still, I should think all my cable runs (including the problem one in my kitchen where my MOCA adapter is not detecting my router) are connected and not some completely separate cable line, since I assume there can only be one cable line that ultimately comes from the street and then splits to all my rooms. I suppose it's possible there could be more than one splitter inside the box, and if one splitter passes through different frequencies than another, it could explain why one of my rooms can see the router, but the kitchen can't.


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

I had to get a locking terminator tool (I got this one) in order to get into the box on the side of my house so I could install my PoE filter as well as check the splitters.


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