# S3 issue (not sure where I should start)



## chrishicks (Dec 31, 2003)

I know this is a fairly common topic here but I just didn't know which topic I should possibly piggyback off of so I just started a new one. If there is a specific topic that a mod feels this belongs in feel free to merge it with that one. 

So a few weeks ago I started noticing one of my S3's started rebooting daily. Having changed out a bad power supply on another one my first thought was to see if this one was going bad. I take it apart and blow out all the dust and check out the caps. Visually they look fine. No bulges, leaking or anything, not even the slightest bit. I put it all back together and think maybe it was just all the dust(it was pretty loaded with it) and carry on. All is good for the day and I watch a good 6 hours of programming with no hiccups or anything. 

Now here's where I start to wonder. The next morning I notice it's around 6am and I see the S3 reboot as all the lights on the display are on. A few minutes later and I see the clock. I switch over and see it sitting on an HD channel. I decide to put the box on a few SD channels and let it go. I move a few menus around so they're not at the default "top" spot and then leave for the day. I get home and check the box and everything is still as it was when I left it other than the channels as it recorded a few shows in prime time. I spend some time watching them and again no issues with the recordings. No pauses, stuttering, etc which wouldn't make me think I have a bad drive. I go to bed and again the next morning it's around 6am again and the box once again reboots. After it's up and running I check the channels and once again it's on HD channels. This repeats for a few days.

Time for more simple troubleshooting I figure. I move almost all season passes that are for HD channels to another box and delete them from this one. Now it's only recording a single HD show(which I couldn't move due to multiple tuner conflicts but doesn't record for a few days out so I figure I can still test) and a few SD shows. I put the box on SD channels once again and leave it alone. No recordings scheduled on the box for this day/night. The box stays on SD channels. Once again all is good until the next morning. Around 6:30 it reboots yet again. It seems that something is triggering a reboot in the mornings as they always seem to happen between 6-7am and it's not related to the HD channels which I was thinking prior. 

Now this morning I had what I thought was the bad drive signal because it started to reboot loop. It would get to the "almost there" screen and right as that was going away I was back at "welcome" again. However after 3 times of doing this it started up like normal and has been fine since. Again, no menu issues, no stuttering, etc.

So where would be a good place to start with this? Should I run a specific Kickstart? Could the power supply still be bad despite visually looking fine? On the box that has the replaced PS the caps were visually swollen on the tops which is why I ask. Can you actually have a bad drive even with no pausing/stuttering issues? I ask because in the dozen or so boxes I've had through the years every bad drive I'd encountered had those symptoms so I just never experienced anything but those. Can it be some weird cable card thing? Whenever I check the signal levels on the box they're never really low(most are in the 80-90's range with the remainder being 60-70's) so I'm a bit lost on what to look for. What would cause the box to reboot every morning at around the same time? Is that just a big coincidence?

Sorry about the length of this along with the mass amount of questions at the end. I'm just trying to think of anything and everything. And just to add since I didn't mention it above, the drive is an upgraded 1TB drive. No eSATA connected drive. The box is also plugged into a UPS.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Reboot is very often a drive going bad but sometimes could also be an issue with power being supplied to the drive.

My guess is you have a drive starting to fail and error correction is sometimes recovering/remapping bad sectors.

Suggest you pull the drive and run manufacturer diagnostics on a PC.

Do NOT run kick start 57 on the drive as the chances you'll be left in a gsod death loop are high.

If you see drive errors, buy a new drive and use dd_rescue to copy the failing drive to the new drive, then put it back in TiVo and run kickstart 57


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

chrishicks said:


> I know this is a fairly common topic here but I just didn't know which topic I should possibly piggyback off of so I just started a new one. If there is a specific topic that a mod feels this belongs in feel free to merge it with that one.
> 
> So a few weeks ago I started noticing one of my S3's started rebooting daily. Having changed out a bad power supply on another one my first thought was to see if this one was going bad. I take it apart and blow out all the dust and check out the caps. Visually they look fine. No bulges, leaking or anything, not even the slightest bit. I put it all back together and think maybe it was just all the dust(it was pretty loaded with it) and carry on. All is good for the day and I watch a good 6 hours of programming with no hiccups or anything.
> 
> ...


Go into sys info and see if you're running 11.0k or 11.0m.

If it hasn't updated to m yet, it could be that it keeps trying to do so (by rebooting and switching to the alternate set of boot partitions where the new version would have been written to when it was downloaded).

And you should go ahead and start copying to PC whatever shows don't have the anti-copy bit set, in case we need to re-image your drive.


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## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

I vote to connect the drive to your PC and run a smart diagnostic on it. My THD had a few random hiccups and even though the drive appeared to be fine the smart diagnostic tool I used showed there were many reallocated sectors (the sign of a drive that will go bad soon).

The tool I prefer is this one since its open source and available for almost any OS 
http://gsmartcontrol.berlios.de/home/index.php/en/Downloads


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

ciper said:


> I vote to connect the drive to your PC and run a smart diagnostic on it. My THD had a few random hiccups and even though the drive appeared to be fine the smart diagnostic tool I used showed there were many reallocated sectors (the sign of a drive that will go bad soon).
> 
> The tool I prefer is this one since its open source and available for almost any OS
> http://gsmartcontrol.berlios.de/home/index.php/en/Downloads


PartedMagic, which is a Live cd type Linux GUI, available as its own bootable cd and as part of the Ultimate Boot CD, includes GSmartControl--just click on the Disk Health icon


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

Im curious, would the pink screen in the tivohd be a sign of a bad drive? My issue just started today when a cable channel lost the full signal and pixelated for a while. Then poof. 2 of my TiVo roamios needed to be restarted, and the tivohd would not recover after a hard reboot. right now, she's unplugged... but im wondering if the pixilation has caused the tivohd drive to die. ? any ideas?


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

tough joe said:


> Im curious, would the pink screen in the tivohd be a sign of a bad drive? My issue just started today when a cable channel lost the full signal and pixelated for a while. Then poof. 2 of my TiVo roamios needed to be restarted, and the tivohd would not recover after a hard reboot. right now, she's unplugged... but im wondering if the pixilation has caused the tivohd drive to die. ? any ideas?


Under those circumstances I'd be hesitant to guess what the problem is, but I'm pretty sure pixelation can't do any physical damage.

Whether what caused the pixelation could also have caused other problems is a separate issue.

Is that HD connected via HDMI, or even component video?

Because I've seen gray screens when the motherboard and the drive weren't communicating properly, and of course there's the famous Green Screen of Death (which is technically a screen of "the TiVo has to spend some time fixing something but is expected to recover") which is unmistakably green--green doesn't get any greener--but never heard of a pink screen, which makes me wonder if only part of the color signal is getting through--the more colors you throw in the closer the screen gets to white, not black, 'cause adding light is the reverse of adding pigments.

Can you connect the HD's composite video output (yellow jack) to a composite input on the TV and see what that looks like?

I'm curious as to what would have required all of your TiVos to need rebooting at the same time.

Do you have them plugged into a UPS or straight to the wall socket?

Since we're talking about a Series 3, you need to be sure there's nothing wrong with the power supply before you get too deep into the troubleshooting, 'cause a failing supply can cause all sorts of strange symptoms.

Go read up on capacitor plague ( subject to which S2s and S3s are at high risk of being).

And as long as you'll need to take the cover off to check the supply, might as well undo the drive bracket and take it and the drive to a PC and run the drive manufacturer's long test diagnostic on it.


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

Thanks Unitron - I'll be able to spend the day tomorrow playing with this. I'll keep you posted.



unitron said:


> Under those circumstances I'd be hesitant to guess what the problem is, but I'm pretty sure pixelation can't do any physical damage.
> 
> Whether what caused the pixelation could also have caused other problems is a separate issue.
> 
> ...


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

All three tivos have battery backs plug in devices. (I have 2 roamio pros, and 1 tivohd). The problem im having is with the tivohd.

After running kickstart 57 - there are no errors to report. 

The Tivo HD has a TiVo wireless adapter connected via the unit's usb port. I have no external hds, no cable boxes, no dta. Nothing external connected except for the wireless thing. 

Here's what I got so far. I get a black screen with the dancing bubble "searching for signal". I bypassed the TiVo and plugged the cable line directly to the tv - works great (after scanning). (the 2 other roamios in the house working great. When I connect the cable wire back to the tivo, and then Tivo hdmi out to tv hdmi in , for some reason, I just get that dancing bubble "searching for signal".

I have a m-cable card. if that matters. 

Note: The previously recorded shows from Tivo Central play back perfectly.

Any ideas on how to fix this? 
Thanks,
Anthony


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Weird new CableCARD issues can also be tied to bad capacitors in the power supply.

If it were me? I'd grab an image from the ether, put it on a new if small hard drive, and run that for a week and see if it resolves things, that eliminates the drive. If it still reboots, then it's the power supply. You may even have a flaky drive AND a questionable power supply, especially if this is an OLED S3, then your PS needs capacitor replacement IMO.


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

tough joe said:


> All three tivos have battery backs plug in devices. (I have 2 roamio pros, and 1 tivohd). The problem im having is with the tivohd.
> 
> After running kickstart 57 - there are no errors to report.
> 
> ...


Would anyone know if calling the cable company and have them "unpair" and then "repair" the cable card may work? or would that do more harm than good?


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> Weird new CableCARD issues can also be tied to bad capacitors in the power supply.





tough joe said:


> Would anyone know if calling the cable company and have them "unpair" and then "repair" the cable card may work? or would that do more harm than good?


hint hint hint


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

tough joe said:


> All three tivos have battery backs plug in devices. (I have 2 roamio pros, and 1 tivohd). The problem im having is with the tivohd.
> 
> After running kickstart 57 - there are no errors to report.
> 
> ...


The Babe from Boston has an excellent point about the power supply, but go into the DVR Diagnostics menu and see what that reports about the tuners and about the cable cards.

I've got an HD with one bad cable tuner and it keeps cycling through the different modulation options instead of settling on one the way the other cable tuner does.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be power supply related.

Any chance your cable company went 100% SDV and forgot to tell you?


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

Ran all tests on Tivo - SMART test took the longest. No issues. However, all of my analog channels returned, and a smattering of HD channels as well. I called the cable company, he had me unplug the TiVo, remove the cable card. plug the TiVo back in. After it rebooted, he had me install the cable card and he "paired" it over the phone again. Still the same issue. He suggested that a power surge may have invalidated the card. So i'm heading to the cable company tomorrow to swap out the cable card. Hopefully that will fix the problem. 

My cable company went 100% digital a few months ago.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

tough joe said:


> Ran all tests on Tivo - SMART test took the longest. No issues. However, all of my analog channels returned, and a smattering of HD channels as well. I called the cable company, he had me unplug the TiVo, remove the cable card. plug the TiVo back in. After it rebooted, he had me install the cable card and he "paired" it over the phone again. Still the same issue. He suggested that a power surge may have invalidated the card. So i'm heading to the cable company tomorrow to swap out the cable card. Hopefully that will fix the problem.
> 
> My cable company went 100% digital a few months ago.


*sigh* sometimes I feel like I'm on ignore...
The symptoms you're describing are exactly what can happen with power supply issues, the CableCARD acts weird, doesn't pair, or has trouble with some channels. since the OLED S3 and to a lesser extent, the Tivo HD are known for capacitor issues, you're ignoring the #1 potential cause of these issues by troubleshooting around them.


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

Hi diane - I really do appreciate your help. Im not ignoring you - I promise. Its just that im trying to avoid buying a power supply for $100 from weaknees. If I can solve this problem with no cost - that would be great. But I really thank you for all of your help so far.

Something new started happening - now im getting pixilation on several hd channels. Not sure if that is related to the pwersupply or cablecard, but just throwing it out there.



dianebrat said:


> *sigh* sometimes I feel like I'm on ignore...
> The symptoms you're describing are exactly what can happen with power supply issues, the CableCARD acts weird, doesn't pair, or has trouble with some channels. since the OLED S3 and to a lesser extent, the Tivo HD are known for capacitor issues, you're ignoring the #1 potential cause of these issues by troubleshooting around them.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

tough joe said:


> Hi diane - I really do appreciate your help. Im not ignoring you - I promise. Its just that im trying to avoid buying a power supply for $100 from weaknees. If I can solve this problem with no cost - that would be great. But I really thank you for all of your help so far.
> 
> Something new started happening - now im getting pixilation on several hd channels. Not sure if that is related to the pwersupply or cablecard, but just throwing it out there.


If you can solder, then you can redo the power supply, it's $10 worth of parts. It's just that all your symptoms are right up the alley of a power supply with aging and failing caps.

In the past few years on TCF and with my own unit, I went through almost the exact steps you have, and each step got a little better, but never resolved the issue, until the caps were replaced, then magically the unit was a bulletproof champ again. This is especially true with OLED S3's and has started to be common in Tivo HDs.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

tough joe said:


> Hi diane - I really do appreciate your help. Im not ignoring you - I promise. Its just that im trying to avoid buying a power supply for $100 from weaknees. If I can solve this problem with no cost - that would be great. But I really thank you for all of your help so far.
> 
> Something new started happening - now im getting pixilation on several hd channels. Not sure if that is related to the pwersupply or cablecard, but just throwing it out there.


Seriously, power supply problems are so likely in S2s and S3s that you have to make sure that you don't have them before you can trust the results of any other troubleshooting that you do.

And since it's extremely likely that if none of the caps on your power supply have gone bad it's just a matter of time until one or more does, it's good preventive maintenance to just go ahead and replace the usual suspects.

Frankly, anyone who has an S2 or S3 that's working just fine should consider recapping the supply now, before it gives trouble, unless they don't care if their TiVo goes bad.


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

ok - new cable card - same problem. except now all channels that I am getting are all pixelating. every channel. 

not to mention many channels that are not coming in. 

So it looks like im going to have to buy that power supply.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

tough joe said:


> ok - new cable card - same problem. except now all channels that I am getting are all pixelating. every channel.
> 
> not to mention many channels that are not coming in.
> 
> *So it looks like im going to have to buy that power supply*.


You have no geeks in your circle of friends or family that have soldering skills? it's really very basic soldering, I wouldn't recommend learning with a power supply, but it's one of the easiest repairs out there.


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

ok - just ordered the power supply. my model # is TCD652160

Do you know if weakness includes instructions on how to remove/replace the power supply board? I build my own pc's so im sure it may be self explanatory, but ive never opened a TiVo unit before.


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

dianebrat said:


> You have no geeks in your circle of friends or family that have soldering skills? it's really very basic soldering, I wouldn't recommend learning with a power supply, but it's one of the easiest repairs out there.


I just don't trust myself with soldering. I'll leave that to the pros.

Again thank you for your help Diane. Id send you a virtual bouquet of roses if I knew you


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

tough joe said:


> ok - just ordered the power supply. my model # is TCD652160
> 
> Do you know if weakness includes instructions on how to remove/replace the power supply board? I build my own pc's so im sure it may be self explanatory, but ive never opened a TiVo unit before.


If you build your own PCs it should be more than obvious, the Tivo innards are really simple compared to a PC, obviously make sure it's unplugged.


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

thank you Diane - i'll keep you posted.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

tough joe said:


> ok - just ordered the power supply. my model # is TCD652160
> 
> Do you know if weakness includes instructions on how to remove/replace the power supply board? I build my own pc's so im sure it may be self explanatory, but ive never opened a TiVo unit before.


You'll need a #10 Torx driver to unscrew the screws holding the cover/lid/top onto the TiVo chassis.

I'm pretty sure there are 6 of them.

Get an old aspirin bottle or something like that in which to put them.

(they like to sneak off when your back is turned if you just leave them lying on the bench)

Once you have all the screws out (don't take out the 4 holding the fan or any of the little ones in there among all the input/output jacks, just the ones that go through the black part), you need to slide the top back from the front, and you may have to put some muscle on it to get it to let go.

It fits very, very snugly and well.

You can try a small pry bar or a big flat blade screwdriver to stick under the black parts at the sides, or get someone to hold the top steady and tap the back of the chassis with a rubber hammer to try to get it to break free.

Once you can get it moved back about an inch or so you can lift it straight up.

Did I mention that you should not have anything, especially the power cord, plugged into the back of the TiVo while doing this?

And did I mention rule number 1?

ALWAYS KNOW WHERE BOTH ENDS OF THE POWER CORD ARE AT ALL TIMES!

Once you've got the top off, you can see the power supply on the right (looking from the front).

There are (I think) 6 screws holding the power supply circuit board to the chassis and they also take a #10 Torx bit.

Then there's the sneaky hidden one.

Look on the back from the outside just above where the power cord jack is.

There's a small dark screw that goes into the upper plastic part of the AC input jack from the outside of the chassis. For that one you need a #8 Torx bit.

You'll need to unplug the combo power/data plug from the internal hard drive and unplug the data end from the motherboard.

And you'll need to squeeze the release tab and unplug the thing that looks a lot like an ATX power supply motherboard plug.

Be careful not to dislodge the ribbon cable that goes from the motherboard to the front panel. I don't know if they still have them rigged to burn something out if the motherboard end isn't fully and properly seated the way the Series 2s were, but let's not take the chance.

Once you do all the unscrewing and unplugging, the power supply board should lift right out.

And you should have put the screws for it in another aspirin bottle. If you've had a TiVo and a PC for very long, you should have plenty of empty aspirin bottles.

I know you can send the old supply back for a core charge refund, but you'll eat up a chunk of that on shipping, and there's no guarantee that the capacitors on the replacement board you're about to install aren't about to go bad any day now, so you might consider keeping the old one and learning how to replace the caps (I can tell you how), and that way you'll have a spare.

The Series 3 HD (which is what the 652 is) and the HD XL (which is the 658, and looks the same as the 652 on the outside, just has a bigger internal drive stock) use the same power supplies.

I say supplies because there are two different ones from two different subcontractors, 3Y Power Technology and AcBel, so the one you get may not look like the one you're replacing (and the list of caps for each is different), but either supply will work with any 652 or 658.

If you want to put new caps in the old one, let me know which model it is.


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

Wow thanks so much for this very thorough post.


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

Hi Diane and unitron,

Unfortunately, after I swapped out the new power supply (ridiculously easy), I still am having the same problem. I get no signal on any channels now. (I have not used the unit since Nov 5.) I reran guided set up but did not do a clear and delete everything. Still nothing. As a test, I watched a few previously recorded shows and they played fine. MRV works just fine, as does streaming music through "Live 365".

I connected the cable wire directly to the tv, bypassing the TiVo, and cable works great. But once I go through the TiVo, im getting a black screen with the dancing bubble that says "waiting for cable in".

Here's what ive done so far:

1) replaced power supply
2) called cable co to unpair and repair 
3) ran repeat guided set up.

I am at a loss... I just don't know what to do at this point. Any help you can provide would be very appreciative. 

Thanks


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

tough joe said:


> Hi Diane and unitron,
> 
> Unfortunately, after I swapped out the new power supply (ridiculously easy), I still am having the same problem. I get no signal on any channels now. (I have not used the unit since Nov 5.) I reran guided set up but did not do a clear and delete everything. Still nothing. As a test, I watched a few previously recorded shows and they played fine. MRV works just fine, as does streaming music through "Live 365".
> 
> ...


Have you ever tried using the Over The Air tuners on that TiVo?

Have you got at least one local broadcast station somewhat near?

Can you borrow a pair of rabbit ears from somebody?

If you get the same problem on the OTA tuners that tells us one thing and if they work flawlessly that tells us something else.


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

Different devices require different levels of Signal to decode the video. If you have another Tivo of the same model, in the same location, then that's the best data point.

Also, pay attention to which channels are encrypted vs which ones are not. Then start with only the non-encrypted ones to rule out the CableCard.

To me it sounds like borderline signal quality (pixelated image), combined with some kind of instability (unexplained reboots) on the system.

I would read over the logs in /var/log/
Particularly, tverr and kernel and messages.

Aren't there a lot of diagnostic screens for the Tuners and Cable Card? I would look through those too.

If if there is a signal quality problem, using thicker Coax, reducing the length, reducing the of number splitter, or adding a distribution amp, can do wonders.


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

Thanks - I plan to go to best buy tomorrow and get an ota antenna. For now, I get nothing - no signal whatsoever. All channels. When I connect the cable directly to the tv (bypassing the TiVo), signal comes in nice and clear on all channels. Ive already swapped out the cable card, and the power supply. I'll do what unitron suggested and will post results. 

Thanks.


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

unitron said:


> Have you ever tried using the Over The Air tuners on that TiVo?
> 
> Have you got at least one local broadcast station somewhat near?
> 
> ...


Ok - OTA antenna works great. Now what? 
(and thanks in advanced)


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

tough joe said:


> Ok - OTA antenna works great. Now what?
> (and thanks in advanced)


So there are no more analog channels on your cable?

And all of the digitial ones require a cable card?

Do you have an old VCR still hanging around, or something else that puts out an analog Channel 3 or 4 signal like they had to do back in the pre-digital broadcast days when lots of TVs had no input except the ones to the VHF and UHF tuners?

I have 652 that does great on digital OTA (which is one 2 tuner tuner module), and on the other 2 tuner tuner module, the cable one, tuner 0 can't lock in an analog cable channel, but tuner 1 does it just fine. We're still on analog cable, so I don't have cable cards so that I can test the cable tuner module on digital cable channels.

But I'm starting to suspect that we may be starting to see the capacitor plague problem manifest itself in one or more of the capacitors on the motherboard itself, which is going to be a few orders of magnitude more of a royal PITA to deal with than on the power supplies.

If you could feed your cable tuner a known good analog (NTSC) signal on channel 3 or 4, then whether you could tune that or not with one or both of your cable tuners would give us further clues as to whether to blame your cable tuner or the cable card part of the equation.


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

unitron said:


> So there are no more analog channels on your cable?
> 
> And all of the digitial ones require a cable card?
> 
> ...


Yea unfortunately, the analog was removed from our cable system 10 months ago. Sorry I don't have a VCR here. I have no access to an analog signal.

So basically I think i'm hosed on this one...

Any ideas on finding a new TiVo hd with lifetime. I don't need the cost of a premier or a roamio.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

tough joe said:


> Any ideas on finding a new TiVo hd with lifetime. I don't need the cost of a premier or a roamio.


eBay and I think they've dropped slightly since the release of the Roamio's - $250-$350.

Scott


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

HerronScott said:


> eBay and I think they've dropped slightly since the release of the Roamio's - $250-$350.
> 
> Scott


thanks. checking it out now.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

tough joe said:


> Yea unfortunately, the analog was removed from our cable system 10 months ago. Sorry I don't have a VCR here. I have no access to an analog signal.
> 
> So basically I think i'm hosed on this one...
> 
> Any ideas on finding a new TiVo hd with lifetime. I don't need the cost of a premier or a roamio.


Just wanted to be sure you tried both cable tuners simultaneously, as in punch in a channel number, then hit the Live TV button to switch tuners and punch in a different channel number, so that you know each is on a different channel number from the other, and then go into the menus to DVR diagnostics and see what it has to say about both tuners.


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

yes I played with it last night - switch back and forth from antenna to cable, antenna channels worked good (a few couldn't grab the signal but that was more from my antenna placement than a faulty tuner.

Im off to ebay to find a new one - i'll just swap out the hard drive when I get it.

I want to thank you whole heartedly for your help.



unitron said:


> Just wanted to be sure you tried both cable tuners simultaneously, as in punch in a channel number, then hit the Live TV button to switch tuners and punch in a different channel number, so that you know each is on a different channel number from the other, and then go into the menus to DVR diagnostics and see what it has to say about both tuners.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

tough joe said:


> yes I played with it last night - switch back and forth from antenna to cable, antenna channels worked good (a few couldn't grab the signal but that was more from my antenna placement than a faulty tuner.
> 
> Im off to ebay to find a new one - i'll just swap out the hard drive when I get it.
> 
> I want to thank you whole heartedly for your help.


If you are under the impression that moving the hard drive will move a lifetime subscription from one motherboard to another, I regret to inform you that it will not.

Product Lifetime Service is tied to the TiVo Service Number (the motherboard tells the hard drive what the TSN is, not the other way around), and begining with the 652s and 658s, this number is stored inside the main CPU, which is a custom chip with a CPU and a bunch of the video processing and other stuff, like what used to be on a separate crypto chip where the TSN used to be kept from the S1 to the original S3, the 648, and said CPU is, for all practical purposes, not movable to another motherboard of the same model.

If what you have is a lifetimed 652 that works on OTA channels just fine, but not cable channels, you could keep it, especially if it's the anchor unit for Multi-Set Discounts on your other TiVos if they're by the month, or if you'll need an MSD on a lifetime sub for a new TiVo anytime soon, and just use it as an OTA machine and place where you can copy over non-copy protected shows from the other TiVos to increase the number of viewing locations.

It has less value without cable tuners, but it's still lifetimed, does OTA and MRV, and has a good power supply, so it's not absolutely worthless.


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

Sorry I wasn't clear - I plan to buy a replacement unit with the small stock 160 gig hard drive (I never thought id see the day that id say 160 gig HD was considered small - lol) with lifetime and just swap out my existing 2 Ter HD with the new unit. Not sure what id do with the one that's broken. Probably sell it on ebay for parts - of course clearly stating the problem I have. Or as you suggest, use it for a unit to watch transferred shows...



unitron said:


> If you are under the impression that moving the hard drive will move a lifetime subscription from one motherboard to another, I regret to inform you that it will not.
> 
> Product Lifetime Service is tied to the TiVo Service Number (the motherboard tells the hard drive what the TSN is, not the other way around), and begining with the 652s and 658s, this number is stored inside the main CPU, which is a custom chip with a CPU and a bunch of the video processing and other stuff, like what used to be on a separate crypto chip where the TSN used to be kept from the S1 to the original S3, the 648, and said CPU is, for all practical purposes, not movable to another motherboard of the same model.
> 
> ...


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

Hey Unitron

I just got in the new S3 - same model as my old one. I booted it up to make sure it worked and it works great. So I unplugged the new one, opened both cases, swapped the hard drive from my old (nonworking cable tunner) one to the new one. I also plugged in the cablecard before powering the new one up.

This is where I run into a minor issue. It sat on the "TiVo is starting up" screen for about 25 minutes. When I came back from jogging, live tv was playing nicely. But when I pressed Tivo Central button on remote, I get an erro that stated "TiVo has encountered a hardware error - you are unable to record or watch recordings until you reboot' Do you want to a) reboot, b) skip this, c) delete message.

I think I may have swapped the HD out in the wrong order... Any help is appreciated..


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## worachj (Oct 14, 2006)

tough joe said:


> Hey Unitron
> 
> I just got in the new S3 - same model as my old one. I booted it up to make sure it worked and it works great. So I unplugged the new one, opened both cases, swapped the hard drive from my old (nonworking cable tunner) one to the new one. I also plugged in the cablecard before powering the new one up.
> 
> ...


Because the hard drive came from a different TiVo you need to do a Clear and Delete to reset the hard drive to the different mother board.


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

worachj said:


> Because the hard drive came from a different TiVo you need to do a Clear and Delete to reset the hard drive to the different mother board.


Ah.. Ok thanks. I post an update.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

tough joe said:


> Hey Unitron
> 
> I just got in the new S3 - same model as my old one. I booted it up to make sure it worked and it works great. So I unplugged the new one, opened both cases, swapped the hard drive from my old (nonworking cable tunner) one to the new one. I also plugged in the cablecard before powering the new one up.
> 
> ...


I hope you weren't hoping to save any of the shows on your original S3 HD.


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

unitron said:


> I hope you weren't hoping to save any of the shows on your original S3 HD.


I transferred them to the other units before I did this.

Worach - that did the trick.

Thanks everyone.


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## pcsmith811 (Sep 27, 2005)

Does the new S3 have 11.0m loaded on it yet? When I first bought the S3's, I had pixelation issues on non-broadcast HD channels - MTV, history, discovery etc. This was in late 2007, and was a problem for almost a year when one day it went away with one of Tivo's updates. (not after hours and hours of troubleshooting and dealing with Cox tech's until I was dead inside)

A few days ago, one of them got upgraded to 11.0m and is now pixelating again. I replaced the caps on the power supply last year as well as the hard drive. I'm not ruling either those out at this point, but since you had those issues that might seem to have come with the update, I'm wondering if whatever the issue was before just cropped up again.


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

Just came across this post of mine and I still have this unit. I was thinking since this unit is non-functioning (see all my previous posts for info) id give it to anyone on here who wants it - just pay my actual shipping costs. (if you are in the USA, I suspect it should cost around $30 or less UPS or USPS??).. im not looking to make a profit in any way. 

anyways, its got a small stock hard drive, does NOT work on digital channels, but antenna channels work (as of 2 years ago) I have not plugged it in since, it still has lifetime on the unit... I cant seem to locate the remote or the power cord.

so if interested let me know. if you suggest I just trash it, im ok with that too - its way too small for me to use as a unit to transfer shows to and then to pay for a remote and power cord... just not worth it for me.

due to the cost of shipping, I cant give a refund if its worse than stated here. so item is being given away as is.

Edit - FOUND the power cord and the remote. So they will be included.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Joe,

I might be interested. Sent you a PM.

Scott


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