# stream is not convenient



## joy_division (Nov 22, 2007)

I consider myself quite tech savvy, but I do not see how the stream hookup over MocA is any easier than direct ethernet cable from Tivo to my router.

I do not have the ability for a direct connect as my Tivo is too far away from my computer/router/modem. I use wireless.

I looked at the Tivo site (http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/moca.html) to hook my Premiere to MocA. These instructions are very ambiguous to say the least, but it looks like I have to hook up my Tivo via ethernet to the MocA adapter. If I were able to run an ethernet cable that far (and I cannot), why not just go directly into the router? After all, the router is right next to the MocA.

Am I missing something?


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

Yes, you are missing something. The network connection is made through the coax cable that is already running to your TiVo. The whole point is that you don't need to run ethernet cable to wherever your TiVo is. Put MoCA adapters at the TiVo and near your router. Connect them to the coax in whatever room they are in. Plug one adapter into the router with an ethernet cord, and plug the other one into the TiVo's ethernet port.

If you have an Elite/4/XL4 then you don't even need an adapter at the TiVo end.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

MOCA is just a way to transsmit network traffic over coax cables. Just like HomePlug does over powerlines, HomePNA does over phone lines and Wifi does via radio signals. It's just a way to convert Ethernet signals so that they can be transmitted over the wiring you already have in place, rather then having to run cat5 all over your house. The reason TiVo chose MOCA over those other technologies is because a) all TiVos have coax connected anyway and b) MOCA seems to be the fastest and most reliable of the bunch. 

Dan


----------



## joy_division (Nov 22, 2007)

Arcady said:


> Put MoCA adapters at the TiVo and near your router.


Thank you Arcady. That of course makes sense. The link I provided was a little ambiguous as I said, but partly because I goofed too. I assumed that the Tivo was to be connected to the MocA adapter that I hooked to my router. Duh, stupid me. I don't know where this mysterious extra ethernet port on the MocA adapter would have been since it would have been hooked to my router already. I guess I was thinking the adapter had multiple ethernet ports on it like my router. Additionally, I missed the part where it said hook up one adapter to EACH Tivo. I feel silly, but you cleared it up for me.


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

Another plus to the MoCA in the Elite is that I can plug a switch into the ethernet port on the TiVo and instantly have multiple ethernet ports in the living room, which I have hooked up to an older TiVo HD, a PS3, Blu-Ray player, and a Windows PC. All of these devices used to be on WiFi, and the bandwidth they wasted can now be enjoyed by things that really need it, like our phones and laptops.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

*** _Looks like I took too long to write my post! Good information above._



> I do not see how the stream hookup over MocA is any easier than direct ethernet cable from Tivo to my router


I am not following you... Yes, a direct ethernet connection is easier and preferred. If you have an ethernet connection to your Premier, you are done. Connect your Stream directly to your router and everthing should work for you.

If you do not have an ethernet port near your TiVo then Moca is a great alternative. You simply use MocA adapters to bring the internet connection accross your coax cable. If you have an Elite/4/XL4 model then the MocA adapter is built into your TiVo. If you have Fios the adapter is built into the router. If not you will need an adapter on either side. (Old ACTIONTEC routers work well as MocA adapters.)


----------



## ellinj (Feb 26, 2002)

The one thing that TiVo doesn't emphasise enough is the need for a MoCa reflector/filter at the first splitter (PoE)


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

ellinj said:


> The one thing that TiVo doesn't emphasise enough is the need for a MoCa reflector/filter at the first splitter (PoE)


Why? The traffic is encrypted so it's not like your neighbors can pick up the signal.

Dan


----------



## ellinj (Feb 26, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> Why? The traffic is encrypted so it's not like your neighbors can pick up the signal.
> 
> Dan


a ) MoCa signals can mess up a DoCSIS modem big time, so you should have a PoE filter to prevent stray signals from messing up your neighbors cable modems.

b) by leaking MoCa signal out of your PoE you effectively weaken the available signal to your MoCa devices, therefore reducing your effective speed between devices.

You should have a MoCa reflector at the PoE and a MoCa filter at each DOCSIS device. Usually the filter/reflector is the same item and can be used interchangeably.

When I gut my tuning adapters from Cox, they included a filter for each one.

I ended up buying an additional one to use at my PoE and on my cable modem. I got much better speeds when the PoE filter was installed.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

My MoCa network doesn't seem to be effecting my cable modem at all. I have the leg of the cable in my office on a splitter, one end goes to the cable modem the other end is split again, one end goes to a TiVo the other goes to a MoCa adapter and the pass through to a tuning adapter. I just ran a speed test and I'm getting >30/4Mbps with 24ms ping.

Dan


----------



## ellinj (Feb 26, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> My MoCa network doesn't seem to be effecting my cable modem at all. I have the leg of the cable in my office on a splitter, one end goes to the cable modem the other end is split again, one end goes to a TiVo the other goes to a MoCa adapter and the pass through to a tuning adapter. I just ran a speed test and I'm getting >30/4Mbps with 24ms ping.
> 
> Dan


I have seen stories where the cable companies will disconnect a customer if they discover leaking MoCa signals when troubleshooting a customer signal issues. Best to be neighborly and get a PoE filter.

Jeff


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

ellinj said:


> I have seen stories where the cable companies will disconnect a customer if they discover leaking MoCa signals when troubleshooting a customer signal issues. Best to be neighborly and get a PoE filter.
> 
> Jeff


 I've been running MoCA for years and I don't have a filter and cable company has been over several times and not balked at my setup - not that most techs that show up even really know what MoCA is mind you. My NIM100 MoCA units have exact same casing as the Moto Tuning Adapter so they probably confuse the two. In any case it's probably good advice but certainly not a necessity to have a filter. I've not had any problems myself after years of using MoCA. Note that I also have an amplified 8 way splitter that MoCA network sits behind so the return path is very degraded anyway - effectively a good filter too I would imagine.


----------



## ellinj (Feb 26, 2002)

Good explanation of MoCa and the reasoning behind a PoE filter. While it's true it isn't required to make MoCa work, its cheap and you may even be able to get one for free from the cable company.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Where do you buy one?

Dan


----------



## ellinj (Feb 26, 2002)

Tivo normally sells them as accessories, but they appear to be out of stock.

Quick google shows this as a pretty cheap source

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOCA-FILTER...Signal_Amplifiers_Filters&hash=item43b34ade90


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

If I did install one (which I don't plan to) I would want to make sure that the filter really is a good quality narrow band filter since my cable co. is already heavily using the 860MHz-1GHz range for TV channels, so any degradation of signals close to 1GHz would be a bad thing.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I bought one just to try. For $8 it's not going to hurt anything, and if there is a chance it will improve my MoCa signal any then it'll be worth it. According to the UMatterToCharter guys over on AVSForum my system is still old so I doubt we'll have any interference issues.

Dan


----------



## ducker (Feb 21, 2006)

What I'm not following is why the MoCA needs to go back to the cable modem via Cable as well as cat6.

Is it because you place the MoCA filter on the same coax plug that the cable modem is currently sitting on - and thus you need to hit the MoCA filter first and then then Cable modem?

I'm looking at this closely because the wifi where my tivo is weak. and the idea of getting my tivo box wired would be great if I want to go down the streaming route...

Thanks

... and in doing a little more digging it looks like Verizon FiOS people already have a cable modem which can create a MoCA network. I should look in to this!!!



bradleys said:


> *** _Looks like I took too long to write my post! Good information above._
> 
> I am not following you... Yes, a direct ethernet connection is easier and preferred. If you have an ethernet connection to your Premier, you are done. Connect your Stream directly to your router and everthing should work for you.
> 
> If you do not have an ethernet port near your TiVo then Moca is a great alternative. You simply use MocA adapters to bring the internet connection accross your coax cable. If you have an Elite/4/XL4 model then the MocA adapter is built into your TiVo. If you have Fios the adapter is built into the router. If not you will need an adapter on either side. (Old ACTIONTEC routers work well as MocA adapters.)


----------



## ducker (Feb 21, 2006)

ok.. so after reading all up.. if a person is on FiOS all they need is a single MoCA adapter at the point where the tivo box is - to convert the data signal from Coax to to cat6 and then plug it in to the back of your tivo... and done.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

The primary moca adapter comes before the modem... coax > moca adapter > modem. This is so that it can capture the moca signals from the other adapters in the house, because the modem doesn't pass-through the moca signal. A "loop" is necessary to capture the moca signal before the modem, and spit it out over ethernet to the router, so the modem will "see" it as a regular request from the router.

I'm probably totally muddying the reasoning/terminology, but I am trying. lol.

A person on Fios does not need a moca adapter at the router, because it's integrated into the router, yes. All they need is an adapter at the Tivo (unless they have a 4-tuner model which has moca support built in).


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

ducker said:


> ok.. so after reading all up.. if a person is on FiOS all they need is a single MoCA adapter at the point where the tivo box is - to convert the data signal from Coax to to cat6 and then plug it in to the back of your tivo... and done.


If the TiVo is an Elite/XL4 you don't even need that, those units have built in MoCa support. If it's a standard Premiere then yes you just need the one adapter at the TiVo end to convert from MoCa to Ethernet.

Dan


----------



## ducker (Feb 21, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> If the TiVo is an Elite/XL4 you don't even need that, those units have built in MoCa support. If it's a standard Premiere then yes you just need the one adapter at the TiVo end to convert from MoCa to Ethernet.
> 
> Dan


Yep... I'm a standard 2 tuner Premier owner.. bummer 

Thanks for the feedback all!


----------



## ALK3011 (Jan 28, 2007)

I have DSL so the cable coming into the room where my router (airport) is, is going directly to a tv.

Question 1. Can I use a splitter, split the cable signal there and put one part to the tv and one part on the MoCa adapter, and then connect the MoCa adapter to my Router? (of course adding a MoCa adapter at the TiVo end as well)

Question 2 - Could I instead use a Actiontec - 500 Mbps Powerline Home Theater Network Adapter Kit, http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Actiont...625358741&skuId=5215483&st=500 MBPS&cp=1&lp=5

that would create an ethernet jack right by my Tivo?
Has anyone done this??


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The MoCa adapter I have has a pass through port, so no need for a splitter. Just connect the cable to the MoCa adapter and then connect the output of that to the TV.

Powerline networking isn't as reliable as MoCa but it will work. I had a 200Mbps powerline network when I first got my Stream and it worked fine. However I upgraded to MoCa because I was having some issues with pausing and lengthy downloads. MoCa is much faster even though they have the same theoretical bandwidth.

Dan


----------



## ALK3011 (Jan 28, 2007)

thanks! very helpful. The powerline adapters I have on hold at Best Buy to pick up after work are 500bps. Plus it cannot be lengthier than the Tivo to mac to Roxio Toast to ipad route. Just tivo to mac over my g wireless takes HOURS


----------



## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

ALK3011 said:


> Question 2 - Could I instead use a Actiontec - 500 Mbps Powerline Home Theater Network Adapter Kit, http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Actiont...625358741&skuId=5215483&st=500 MBPS&cp=1&lp=5
> 
> that would create an ethernet jack right by my Tivo?


Go look at your breaker box. Does it have two columns of circuit breakers? If yes, are the breakers for the sockets at both ends in the same column of breakers? If yes, the Actiontek device should be fine. If not, then the two outlets are likely to be on different phases and the power-line adapter might not work as well as you would expect it to.

Aside the from different phase issue with power-line adapters, both approaches seem reasonable.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> Go look at your breaker box. Does it have two columns of circuit breakers? If yes, are the breakers for the sockets at both ends in the same column of breakers? If yes, the Actiontek device should be fine. If not, then the two outlets are likely to be on different phases and the power-line adapter might not work as well as you would expect it to.
> 
> Aside the from different phase issue with power-line adapters, both approaches seem reasonable.


My house has three separate areas for power. Powerline adapters just don't work for me.


----------



## ALK3011 (Jan 28, 2007)

I do have 2 columns in my circuit box, but I live in a small 2 bedroom condo. I highly doubt I have more than one area of power - but I will check when I get home from work.

thanks


----------



## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

If you have a 220 outlet then you have two phases. The two column indicator is really only a hint and isn't terribly accurate. I just checked my breaker box and it only has one long column, but I know that different areas are on different phases. I remember a previous house where each column was a single phase. So all in all, it is just something to watch out for when using power-line adapters. You can always try them and return them if it doesn't work well.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I think they make little jumpers that plug into a 220 outlet that will allow powerline networks to bridge the two phases. Although it might just be easier to use MoCa.

Dan


----------

