# Changing to the HR20 is not upgrading



## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

I keep reading that everyone is upgrading their HR10 or other tivo units to D* DVRs.

IMHO it is not an upgrade. Allowing you to get HD channels with the loss of many features and reduced reliability is not an upgrade. 

I view my HR20 as nothing more than a cheap HD converter that I occasionally use instead of my Tivo.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Yawn.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Here we go again.

And for the record my HR20 is working perfectly fine.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

coachO said:


> I view my HR20 as nothing more than a cheap HD converter that I occasionally use instead of my Tivo.


All views are welcome here. Of course, some are more welcome than others.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

coachO said:


> I keep reading that everyone is upgrading their HR10 or other tivo units to D* DVRs.
> 
> IMHO it is not an upgrade. Allowing you to get HD channels with the loss of many features and reduced reliability is not an upgrade.
> 
> I view my HR20 as nothing more than a cheap HD converter that I occasionally use instead of my Tivo.


And of course, it would appear that you are in the majority of what Tivo owners thinK regardless of what the D* army would have you think


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

RS4 said:


> And of course, it would appear that you are in the majority of what Tivo owners thinK regardless of what the D* army would have you think


Again - opinion, how is comcast?


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## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

Both of my HR20s are now locking up more than once a week. That is an upgrade from monthly. 

The airline industry has the public convinced that if two planes almost collide in mid-air that it is a near miss. It is actually a near hit. D* has us believing that changing to an HR20 is an upgrade when it is actually a retrograde. "The truth is out there"


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Sorry you are having problems but my HD Tivo rebooted itself during watching recordings several times recently. Does that mean the HD Tivo is a step backward from my DirecTivo. Nope. Just means there are issues.....with everything.

Glad you managed to transfer your singular experience into a generality. I think it is called "projecting."


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

coachO said:


> Both of my HR20s are now locking up more than once a week. That is an upgrade from monthly.
> 
> The airline industry has the public convinced that if two planes almost collide in mid-air that it is a near miss. It is actually a near hit. D* has us believing that changing to an HR20 is an upgrade when it is actually a retrograde. "The truth is out there"


If that is really happening it sounds like the hard drive is starting to go. Just call for a replacement.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=9171


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

sjberra said:


> Again - opinion, how is comcast?


Sorry - I've seen numbers showing Tivo far out in the lead. I don't believe you or D* has any numbers showing people going to D* because of their dvr.

Of course we all know that D* is growing and we all speculate that it is because of the number of HD channels, however there are no studies I've seen showing how many people moved to D* because of their dvr.

The only proper deduction therefore is what the OP states - this is not an upgrade. An upgrade insinuates that the receiver is getting something better than what they had. In this case, we can tell that the majority of Tivo owners feel otherwise. Therefore the proper expression is either 'switch' or 'downgrade'.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Here we go again!

Don't you guys ever learn when enough is enough?

Some of you like the new DVR and some of you hate it.

We get it, ok?

Let's use the forum to help people, not just to repeat the same things ad infinitum.

Now please let this thread die and let's get on with the real business of assisting people with real problems.

(...and yes, they CAN discuss both TiVo-based and non-TiVo-based DVRs here!  )


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

TonyTheTiger said:


> Here we go again!
> 
> Don't you guys ever learn when enough is enough?
> 
> ...


Actually, I believe threads like this are very important to folks who are considering their options!!! There is a whole group of folks here who act like this is nothing - i.e. the 2 boxes are the same. For many people, that is the farthest thing from reality, so insinuating that it is an 'upgrade' can be quite misleading for a lot of Tivo owners.

Let's be honest and quit misleading folks in our 'assistance' with innuendos such as 'upgrade', as one thread title states!!


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

RS4 said:


> Sorry - I've seen numbers showing Tivo far out in the lead. I don't believe you or D* has any numbers showing people going to D* because of their dvr.


RS4 would it be possible to post a link to where you have seen these numbers. I have seen you post this "fact" hundreds of times but never a link to these numbers. I am not saying you haven't seen these numbers but I would really like to know where you are getting your information.



> Of course we all know that D* is growing and we all speculate that it is because of the number of HD channels, however there are no studies I've seen showing how many people moved to D* because of their dvr.


What difference does this make. TiVo may have the best DVR out there but if I can only get a few HD channels because FIOS isn't available and cable sucks what good does it do me.



> The only proper deduction therefore is what the OP states - this is not an upgrade. An upgrade insinuates that the receiver is getting something better than what they had. In this case, we can tell that the majority of Tivo owners feel otherwise. Therefore the proper expression is either 'switch' or 'downgrade'.


The new DVRs can do on demand, stream music from the computer, and receive dozens more HD channels. I would argue that it is an upgrade over the HR10. There are some things I liked better on the HR10 but overall I like the HR20/21 better. Obviously this is a matter of opinion.


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## parzec (Jun 21, 2002)

fasTLane said:


> http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=9171


*BUMP* --- Great article about the "New" DirecTV


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

RS4 said:


> Actually, I believe threads like this are very important to folks who are considering their options!!! There is a whole group of folks here who act like this is nothing - i.e. the 2 boxes are the same. For many people, that is the farthest thing from reality, so insinuating that it is an 'upgrade' can be quite misleading for a lot of Tivo owners.
> 
> Let's be honest and quit misleading folks in our 'assistance' with innuendos such as 'upgrade', as one thread title states!!


No it's not important to anyone but those who wish to restate the same things over and over again!

I'm not taking sides here as you and others are equally guilty of the same thing - pounding your point, right or wrong, fact or fiction (passed as fact), pro or anti!

If it was THAT important, then the mods would place a sticky at the top of the forum and not rely on people like you to hammer it out in every thread.

I mean, we even have someone *bumping* a thread 45 minutes after the last post to point to one person's opinion of the D* equipment. It's just not needed - and can be viewed as antagonistic.

Let the thread die. People do not come here to make purchasing decisions, they come to complain or ask questions. It's only the latter we can help and the former have nothing to add that we haven't heard at least 100 times!


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

TonyTheTiger said:


> I mean, we even have someone *bumping* a thread 45 minutes after the last post to point to one person's opinion of the D* equipment. It's just not needed - and can be viewed as antagonistic.


Wrong. If you read the article there are also others comments, good or bad.

And what is antagonistic about discussing competing product on a "TIVO powered PVR" thread?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

fasTLane said:


> Wrong. If you read the article there are also others comments, good or bad.


Yeah, cause an article that has a big picture of a DirecTV DVR among a bunch of lemons as its lead is surely balanced.

Oh, yeah, and I think the author called DirecTV by a name that is not allowed on broadcast TV.

Yup, useful and insightful article. A regular Consumer Reports, that one.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

coachO said:


> IMHO it is not an upgrade. Allowing you to get HD channels with the loss of many features and reduced reliability is not an upgrade.


Loss of what 'many features;? DLB? Easy workaround for everyone except the whiners. Wishlists? No thanks, I can pick my own shows. Oh wait... maybe it's the animated Tivo guy. 



RS4 said:


> Actually, I believe threads like this are very important to folks who are considering their options!!!


Except when the opinions come from folks like you, who not only have never even used a HR2x, don't even have DirecTV anymore, and who's sole purpose is to spread FUD and misinformation. Yep, that's real un-biased information to those considering their options. 

BTW, all 3 of my HR20s are still working flawlessly. That's a fact, and not BS like you spread.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

bla bla bla

new day same old BS.

to cut to the chase, the HR does some things better then TIVO and some things not as well. At the end of the day it is a personal preference - my personal opinion I would not be happy to have to go to back TIVO at this point on my main TV. I still use SD Tivo on my bedroom set and it works.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

RS4 said:


> Sorry - I've seen numbers showing Tivo far out in the lead. I don't believe you or D* has any numbers showing people going to D* because of their dvr.
> 
> Of course we all know that D* is growing and we all speculate that it is because of the number of HD channels, however there are no studies I've seen showing how many people moved to D* because of their dvr.
> 
> The only proper deduction therefore is what the OP states - this is not an upgrade. An upgrade insinuates that the receiver is getting something better than what they had. In this case, we can tell that the majority of Tivo owners feel otherwise. Therefore the proper expression is either 'switch' or 'downgrade'.


Again, please supply verifiable proof of you numbers. I don;t make deductions on insufficient and non-verifiable data. You may "speculate" that it is because of the growing number of HD channels, others may "specualte" it is because of the supported DVR, the key word here is as always - speculate. The only thing that is verifiable is the numbers that show Directv is growing are posted on their financial statements that are filed with the SEC and FINRA.

Again the "switch or downgrade" is your opinion that may or may not be shared by other users.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Wow... How many of these threads do we need?

It's all semantics...

Call it what you want, an upgrade, a swapout, a change... Just switch the box if it gets you where you want to be...

I hated my HR20 when I first got it... I hated losing TiVo...but the switch gave me access to MPEG4 and the ability to record it...and that's where I wanted to be at the time... I love it now, and have an HR20 and an HR21...

I realize that my satisfaction has no bearing on whether any of you will love it... I am just saying...


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Bottom line: If you want to stay with DirecTV AND record MPEG4 HD channels then you need the HR2x DVRs.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Jebberwocky! said:


> bla bla bla
> 
> new day same old BS...


Very well put.



Jebberwocky! said:


> ...At the end of the day it is a personal preference...


 And my personal preference is BOTH.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

You can have both. I have the Tivo.


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## kdonnel (Nov 28, 2000)

I put off changing/upgrading until just a week or so ago.

I wish I had made the change/upgrade earlier. I am really enjoying all the extra HD content and adjusting to the different user interface.

So far every recording has recorded and that is mainly what I expect from a DVR.

I have all my Tivo's centrally located with a video and IR distribution system that makes all the SD Tivo's available in every room. 

One of the reasons I put off changing is because of the DirecTV DVR limitation of only 2 IR remote code sets. The more I thought about it though the more I wanted to put the new HD DVR's at each TV location instead of centrally located so I could actually enjoy HD at each TV. Since they can be configured to use RF I would not have any IR conflicts with more then one DVR.

The DirecTV DVR is not Tivo but so far the pluses out weigh the familiarity I lost. Plus now I have 13 tuners. There should never be a conflict I can't handle.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

fasTLane said:


> You can have both. I have the Tivo.


I have two HD-DVRs (an HR20 and an HR21) and an SD TiVo (used to have two of them actually)...

I love them all...


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

TonyTheTiger said:


> No it's not important to anyone but those who wish to restate the same things over and over again!
> 
> I'm not taking sides here as you and others are equally guilty of the same thing - pounding your point, right or wrong, fact or fiction (passed as fact), pro or anti!
> 
> ...


In fact you'll find a current thread titled


> "Thinking of upgrading older equipment"


, so that pretty much blows the assumption that no one comes here for advice on switching.

This forum is called Tivo Community Forum -not 'dvrs r us'. That means that most folks looking for advice here are familiar with the Tivo. The numbers from polls on the dbstalk (a fan-boy forum for D*) and other network sites point out that Tivo is more widely accepted.

We all know that the D* HD dvr's started out as a POS and have been struggling uphill ever since, and are still controversial, so to insinuate that folks love these things is just totally misleading.

I could care less what kind of dvr folks have, but I do care about folks coming to a Tivo forum and getting information that is not accurate!!

As for the sticky - what would you have the moderators put as a sticky - "you're settling for second (or third) best - by a 3 to 1 margin if it ain't a Tivo"

If anything, this forum errored by not reminding folks more about the 30-day trials available for Tivo HD, about looking at the features of the Tivo HD that D* now sees fit to copy, but couldn't let us have years ago.

I have a feeling that a lot of former DTivo owners are wishing they had gotten more 'accurate' help from this forum


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

RS4 said:


> In fact you'll find a current thread titled , so that pretty much blows the assumption that no one comes here for advice on switching.
> 
> This forum is called Tivo Community Forum -not 'dvrs r us'. That means that most folks looking for advice here are familiar with the Tivo. The numbers from polls on the dbstalk (a fan-boy forum for D*) and other network sites point out that Tivo is more widely accepted.
> 
> ...


blah blah blah.

You {RS4} do not run this forum. It's not RS4's personal TiVo rah rah site. You want such a site, go make one elsewhere and enjoy the crickets when you do.

It has been said plenty of times but you refuse to get the simple message - there is absolutely no need to bash DirecTV here, or be an overly ardent supporter of TiVo either one.

If you have FACTS about the DirecTV DVR boxes, present them. You don't because you have absolutely not used them.

If you have input on helping to solve problems for anyone using either DVR, then by all means be helpful (as requested in the sticky-ed threads above), but otherwise let it end.

You keep pointing to old and flawed surveys while conveniently ignoring others and keep arguing from the same ill-informed position. It's been more than enough for a long time. Just shut it and move along. If everyone could ignore the FUDD you spread things would be a lot more quiet here.


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

RS4 said:


> This forum is called Tivo Community Forum -not 'dvrs r us'. That means that most folks looking for advice here are familiar with the Tivo. The numbers from polls on the dbstalk (a fan-boy forum for D*) and other network sites point out that Tivo is more widely accepted.(


Do you have a link to those polls? I notice you never post links, it would be very helpful to see what polls you are talking about so we don't have to take your word for it.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

RS4 said:


> In fact you'll find a current thread titled , so that pretty much blows the assumption that no one comes here for advice on switching.
> 
> This forum is called Tivo Community Forum -not 'dvrs r us'. That means that most folks looking for advice here are familiar with the Tivo. The numbers from polls on the dbstalk (a fan-boy forum for D*) and other network sites point out that Tivo is more widely accepted.
> 
> ...


As a matter of accuracy - this forum is call "Directv HDTV TiVo Power PVRs' not "Tivo Community Forum" those are the other forums. 
Again you reference polls that agree with what you want to believe and preach, but the ones that show contrary to your beliefs are not worded correctly or the questions are bias to the what you want to belive.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

sjberra said:


> As a matter of accuracy - this forum is call "Directv HDTV TiVo Power PVRs' not "Tivo Community Forum" those are the other forums.


As if this forum is apart from the rest of the forums? Don't be ridiculous. It's all Tivo Community Forum. This is just another sub-forum.


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## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

I wasn't trying to "beat a dead horse", just that both of my HR20s are now locking up constantly versus once a month previously. It is probably the new software but I don't want to read all those posts on the other site.

I heard that Tivo is going to introduce the Series 4 for cable. I just wish D* would introduce a truely upgraded HD DVR. Maybe they could hire someone from Apple to help them!


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## Bitz69 (Jul 29, 2000)

thats a awesome idea, get apple involved, they can change the color to white and double the price and slap there name on it.

it's funny, I hardly come here anymore but when I do it always the same old thing, someone posting the "I hate the HR20's and I'm gunna rant about it" article.



coachO said:


> I wasn't trying to "beat a dead horse", just that both of my HR20s are now locking up constantly versus once a month previously. It is probably the new software but I don't want to read all those posts on the other site.
> 
> I heard that Tivo is going to introduce the Series 4 for cable. I just wish D* would introduce a truely upgraded HD DVR. Maybe they could hire someone from Apple to help them!


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

bigpuma said:


> Do you have a link to those polls? I notice you never post links, it would be very helpful to see what polls you are talking about so we don't have to take your word for it.


I've posted the links several times. Engadget has one asking which dvr people prefer - that's it nothing else, so it's about as neutral as possible. The last time I looked there were over 8000 responses - around 1/3 favored the Tivo, while the closest competitor had 13%.

I also posted links to a couple of polls from the dbstalk froum - again these were the neutral questions - unbiased in there presentation and offering an unbiased selection. Hundreds responded and both polls showed the Tivo was preferred by more than 50% of the respondents. Keep in mind, that the last 2 polls were on the fanboy site.

I've not seen any other poll that was neutral in it's questions and possible responses, showing anything other than Tivo being the preferred dvr, nor have I seen a breakdown of the new D* subscribers showing why they subscribed, but I highly doubt that many people switch to D* just because of their dvr, which is what we use to see a lot of when they were selling DTivos.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

Bitz69 said:


> thats a awesome idea, get apple involved, they can change the color to white and double the price and slap there name on it.
> 
> it's funny, I hardly come here anymore but when I do it always the same old thing, someone posting the "I hate the HR20's and I'm gunna rant about it" article.


Yup - guess it shows that after all of these months, the Tivo crowd that made the switch still realizes they've been downgraded


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

RS4 said:


> Yup - guess it shows that after all of these months, the Tivo crowd that made the switch still realizes they've been downgraded


No, it just shows that the same people are posting the same thing over and over again - on BOTH sides of the fence!

Just give it a rest - all of you!


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

RS4 said:


> ...to insinuate that folks love these things is just totally misleading.
> 
> I could care less what kind of dvr folks have, but I do care about folks coming to a Tivo forum and getting information that is not accurate!!...


In the space of 40 words or less you have completely contradicted yourself.

While there are anecdotal reports of folks both loving and hating both the HR10 and the HR2x platforms, the real fact is that regardless of that there are lots of folks who truly do love the HR2x platform (I'm warm to it, but not exactly rock-hard over it).

This is very plainly evident by reading this forum, _a Tivo forum,_ alone (not to mention the DBSTalk forums). Heck, even this thread has posters saying very plainly how satisfied they are with it. And I am not "insinuating" that they like it, I am merely reporting that they do, a fact which would be monumentally simple for you to research, should you wish to argue the point. Don't forget that forums are skewed, in that most satisfied folks don't even bother to post while a much-larger fraction of those who are not, do.

So if you are the self-appointed repository for accuracy, I'm not sure how you might have missed that. If you think that the vast majority of folks are grudgingly accepting the platform and are grudgingly writing checks every month for a service they don't feel they are getting their money's worth from, you must be seriously deluded. Those who are deluded rarely know what's accurate and what's not. If you truly cared about accuracy as you claim, one would think you would take the trouble to dis-illusion yourself, rather than presenting such a closed and warped singular opinion all the time.

You might remember me as one of the most vocal haters of the HR2x platform, about a year ago. But I opened my mind and gave it a second chance, and learned a few things about how (very surprisingly to me) a DVR platform can improve markedly in a comparitively short time, something history has really never seen before. And I learned a few things about myself in the process. Immediately coming clean was not really all that easy, but I put my head down and did it, in the interests of...guess what...accuracy. It's not too late for you to learn a thing or two either, if you have the innate capability, that is.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Bitz69 said:


> thats a awesome idea, get apple involved, they can change the color to white and double the price and slap there [sic] name on it...


Satiric references aside, if you think that is how Apple operates, you don't know Apple.

1) Apple develops nearly everything from the inside of the company, which is one reason why they are so successful. All companies buy technology and integrate it, even Apple. But in Apple's case that is the rare exception, and hardly the norm. That may be one huge reason why Apple hasn't already pulled the trigger on Tivo.

2) Apple products are price-competitive in all areas, including computers, software, digital media players, downloaded media, and cellular phones. That their products are elitist is an old, never-true myth.

3) Apple has one computer and one iPod that are white, among all of their products. Most by far are aluminum or black or some other color. Apple is the company that broke the mold for "white" computers a decade ago. Virtually all computers from all vendors were white until Apple started making them in every color of the rainbow. The rest of the industry, naturally, followed. As they always do.

That said, Apple buying Tivo technology would be the best thing that ever happened to either company, and possibly to their customers, IMHO.

The biggest examples of them acquiring technology would be NeXt, Mach kernel, and Free BSD. But those are not "buying and slapping" as much as shepherding the technology closely. If Apple bought Tivo and shepherded it the way they did technology that resulted in the superb unmatched Mac OS, future DVRs would make everything we have today look very quaint, indeed.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

RS4 said:


> I've posted the links several times. Engadget has one asking which dvr people prefer - that's it nothing else, so it's about as neutral as possible. The last time I looked there were over 8000 responses - around 1/3 favored the Tivo, while the closest competitor had 13%.
> 
> I also posted links to a couple of polls from the dbstalk froum - again these were the neutral questions - unbiased in there presentation and offering an unbiased selection. Hundreds responded and both polls showed the Tivo was preferred by more than 50% of the respondents. Keep in mind, that the last 2 polls were on the fanboy site.
> 
> I've not seen any other poll that was neutral in it's questions and possible responses, showing anything other than Tivo being the preferred dvr, nor have I seen a breakdown of the new D* subscribers showing why they subscribed, but I highly doubt that many people switch to D* just because of their dvr, which is what we use to see a lot of when they were selling DTivos.


Funny how all the polls that show your preference are "nuetral in it's questions" but those that show opposite are not. Wonder why that is? BTW the later polls for the preference showed differently, but these you discount as not being "neutral worded"


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

TyroneShoes said:


> In the space of 40 words or less you have completely contradicted yourself.
> 
> While there are anecdotal reports of folks both loving and hating both the HR10 and the HR2x platforms, the real fact is that regardless of that there are lots of folks who truly do love the HR2x platform (I'm warm to it, but not exactly rock-hard over it).
> 
> ...


I didn't contradict myself at all. I continue to point to the only real evidence of hard numbers showing preference. All the rest of you point to is anecdotal experience and opinions.

The thing that most of you don't point out when recommending this box over a Tivo HD for instance is that the D* box is still controversial. We continue reading about folks to hate the new box, we continue reading about D* still trying to get features working. (I just read another comment from Shibby about MRV 'almost' working - huh? I turned on MRV on both of my Tivo HD's and a few minutes later was viewing programs off the other machine. It's awesome. I don't even have one of the Tivo's hooked up to the cable, yet I can watch it's OTA recordings on the other tv.) We read about D* passing the same dvr out to 7 homes - duh, do you think it might have something wrong?

The problem with much the D* army is that half truths are presented as fact. The classic is 'oh yeah - D* broadcasts local HD from the satellite', when in fact the only way that folks can get all of the local channels is via the HR21 add on, and now we read that adding the other box seems to put a strain on the HR21 for many folks, so once again the controversy continues.

As you so clearly point out, the D* boxes are adding stuff to their boxes - but much of that stuff has been available on the Tivo for some time.

It's quite clear that D* was pressed for time when they developed their HD dvr because NDS had failed miserably with the SD version. So, here we are 2 years later and D* is still trying to get stuff working on it, probably trying to figure out how they can overcome some design flaw (like 50 SP limit) to get something else working, because they didn't take the time to do it right in the first case.

Look who the vendors are - a company that focused on the consumer vs a company that supplies video. Look at the polls, read the press. The natural conclusion is that Tivo still prevails, and that maybe someday D* will catch up, but I doubt it, because their focus is different.

Yeah D* has made improvements, but look at where they started - most people would think a weed looks good if all they have looked at is bare ground for 2 years.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

sjberra said:


> Funny how all the polls that show your preference are "nuetral in it's questions" but those that show opposite are not. Wonder why that is? BTW the later polls for the preference showed differently, but these you discount as not being "neutral worded"


I just searched the dbstalk forum for the last year and can't find any additional polls that are neutral. Perhaps you'd like to give us a link?


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

RS4 said:


> I didn't contradict myself at all. I continue to point to the only real evidence ...


This even contradicts yourself. You have ZERO first hand experience with the unit and every one of your claims is nothing more than hear-say (outdated at that) that you try to pass off as 'expert advice' and 'the only real evidence'.

I have 3 HR20s - that is a fact. All 3 work flawlessly - that is a fact. Not hear-say, not speculation, not stuff I just make up like you do. Now that is real evidence.

So once again, please tell us your first hand facts. Oh wait, you can't, because you never owned one, leased one, or even used one. And on top of that you don't even have DirecTV either, but continue to post here for the sole purpose to stir the pot with misinformation. Dude, you have some issues.


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## rickmeoff (Aug 25, 2006)

Mark Lopez said:


> This even contradicts yourself. You have ZERO first hand experience with the unit and every one of your claims is nothing more than hear-say (outdated at that) that you try to pass off as 'expert advice' and 'the only real evidence'.
> 
> I have 3 HR20s - that is a fact. All 3 work flawlessly - that is a fact. Not hear-say, not speculation, not stuff I just make up like you do. Now that is real evidence.
> 
> So once again, please tell us your first hand facts. Oh wait, you can't, because you never owned one, leased one, or even used one. And on top of that you don't even have DirecTV either, but continue to post here for the sole purpose to stir the pot with misinformation. Dude, you have some issues.


im pretty certain he took the same route as you, and has tried one in a store so.........by your standards, he should qualify to comment on the unit.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

coachO said:


> I keep reading that everyone is upgrading their HR10 or other tivo units to D* DVRs.
> 
> IMHO it is not an upgrade. Allowing you to get HD channels with the loss of many features and reduced reliability is not an upgrade.
> 
> I view my HR20 as nothing more than a cheap HD converter that I occasionally use instead of my Tivo.


So why don't you switch to TiVo with cable...?

The fact that you bought an HR20 and are 'sticking it out' means in DirecTV's eyes, you're willing to accept their new DVR.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

RS4 said:


> I just searched the dbstalk forum for the last year and can't find any additional polls that are neutral. Perhaps you'd like to give us a link?


None that *you* would deem accepatable if it shows that something that you disagree with, but then again I don;t attempt to utilize data that is not able to be validated to attempt to prove a point. How is comcast?


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## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> So why don't you switch to TiVo with cable...?
> 
> The fact that you bought an HR20 and are 'sticking it out' means in DirecTV's eyes, you're willing to accept their new DVR.


My local cable option is even worse, but I do keep checking them.

They gave me the HR20s and they are functional units but I am not happy with them.

When I got my first TIVO I was just amazed at what it could do and how well it worked. I remember the anticipation for the TIVO with HD. It didn't work as well but it had HD. Then came the D* DVR, it works less well but it has more HD. I am just ready for a trend reversal and an upgrade.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

RS4 said:


> I didn't contradict myself at all. I continue to point to the only real evidence of hard numbers showing preference. All the rest of you point to is anecdotal experience and opinions.
> 
> The thing that most of you don't point out when recommending this box over a Tivo HD for instance is that the D* box is still controversial. We continue reading about folks to hate the new box, we continue reading about D* still trying to get features working. (I just read another comment from Shibby about MRV 'almost' working - huh? I turned on MRV on both of my Tivo HD's and a few minutes later was viewing programs off the other machine. It's awesome. I don't even have one of the Tivo's hooked up to the cable, yet I can watch it's OTA recordings on the other tv.) We read about D* passing the same dvr out to 7 homes - duh, do you think it might have something wrong?
> 
> ...


I completely disagree 100% with each and every word you have ever said. And apparently, so does everybody else. As proof, maybe we should start a "neutral" poll on that. This post, being no different from any of the others, also fits your now boringly-predictable pattern exactly.

Mark sums it up nicely, which I can't improve upon:



Mark Lopez said:


> This even contradicts yourself. You have ZERO first hand experience with the unit and every one of your claims is nothing more than hear-say (outdated at that) that you try to pass off as 'expert advice' and 'the only real evidence'.
> 
> I have 3 HR20s - that is a fact. All 3 work flawlessly - that is a fact. Not hear-say, not speculation, not stuff I just make up like you do. Now that is real evidence.
> 
> So once again, please tell us your first hand facts. Oh wait, you can't, because you never owned one, leased one, or even used one. And on top of that you don't even have DirecTV either, but continue to post here for the sole purpose to stir the pot with misinformation. Dude, you have some issues.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

RS4 said:


> The thing that most of you don't point out when recommending this box over a Tivo HD for instance is that the D* box is still controversial. We continue reading about folks to hate the new box, we continue reading about D* still trying to get features working. (I just read another comment from Shibby about MRV 'almost' working - huh? I turned on MRV on both of my Tivo HD's and a few minutes later was viewing programs off the other machine. It's awesome. I don't even have one of the Tivo's hooked up to the cable, yet I can watch it's OTA recordings on the other tv.) We read about D* passing the same dvr out to 7 homes - duh, do you think it might have something wrong?
> 
> The problem with much the D* army is that half truths are presented as fact. The classic is 'oh yeah - D* broadcasts local HD from the satellite', when in fact the only way that folks can get all of the local channels is via the HR21 add on, and now we read that adding the other box seems to put a strain on the HR21 for many folks, so once again the controversy continues.
> 
> ...


+1 :up:


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)




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## Outlineboy (Oct 11, 2002)

TonyTheTiger said:


> No it's not important to anyone but those who wish to restate the same things over and over again!
> 
> I'm not taking sides here as you and others are equally guilty of the same thing - pounding your point, right or wrong, fact or fiction (passed as fact), pro or anti!
> 
> ...


If I may interject, as a person who doesn't spend multitudes of hours day after day on here, repeated information is a GOOD thing.

I've had DirecTV and TIVO for almost ten years and whenever I have a question or concern the first place I look for answers is on these boards. The repeat of threads and information is very helpful. I don't have the time or technical knowledge to go searching around for what I'm looking for.

You may not realize, but for casual boarders, like me, these boards are VERY confusing with the layout and over-the-top technical jargon.

Personally, I find it kind of annoying to click on a thread that might hold an answer to a question I may have and find the "regulars" complaining about the familiarness or repeatition of information. These boards are for everyone (I think), not just the regulars.

You regulars should be HELPING us less informed TIVO lovers.... not making it more difficult for us.

I'm just saying....


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

Outlineboy said:


> If I may interject, as a person who doesn't spend multitudes of hours day after day on here, repeated information is a GOOD thing.
> 
> I've had DirecTV and TIVO for almost ten years and whenever I have a question or concern the first place I look for answers is on these boards. The repeat of threads and information is very helpful. I don't have the time or technical knowledge to go searching around for what I'm looking for.
> 
> ...


there is a difference between accurate and biased. I agree we need a nuetral poll on it


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## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

TonyTheTiger said:


>


Looks like the Tiger killed this one, nice....


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Outlineboy said:


> If I may interject, as a person who doesn't spend multitudes of hours day after day on here, repeated information is a GOOD thing...


Only if the information is accurate and the poster doesn't have some warped personal agenda.


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## boneskrw (Jan 28, 2006)

This poster has no agenda, but has the HR20 and the HR10-250. Since Direct TV hooked up my HR20, I occasionally use the HR10-250 to look at old recorded programs. Why would I want to use the HR10-250 and pay the same monthly fee as for the HR20 when the HR10 only receives a few channels? 

I don't recall any advantages of the HR10 over the HR20. Completely the opposite---the HR20 is faster in every way, does not blank the screen when pressing the Record button, maintains sound and picture when looking at the recorded list, comes with a remote that operates via RF so there's no need to aim it at the DVR, has the +12 hr. jump-ahead button for the menu, and many other features I can't think of now that the HR10 does not have. 

Correction: There is one HR10 advantage--the ability to watch two programs at once that are being recorded on the hard drive (dual live buffers). That's a minor deficiency compared to all the things the HR20 is capable of that the HR10 is not.


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## Matt L (Aug 13, 2000)

Iyo...


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

+1


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## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

bones: You do not seem to need the features that come with the HR10. I need: the ability to watch 2 channels at once, a workable slow motion for watching sports, and the ability to jump to tick without using the press and hold, etc.

Concerning the HR20: I do not like that it maintains sound and picture when looking at the recorded list, I do not use RF, the channel changing is in fact slower, I hate the press and hold and both units freeze weekly, I do not like the slow motion, etc.

The reason there are so many different model cars is because we all have our preferences. I am sure you could not convince me to drive the same car you drive.

The problem with the DVR is that we only have one choice. It is time for more choices.


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## boneskrw (Jan 28, 2006)

coachO,
You may want to try the RF feature for the remote. All you need to do is select the feature and it's there for you to use. No more need to aim the remote or be in the same room. What's not to like about that?

Slow motion on my HR20 works as well as my HR10.

I do like the fact that the HR20 maintains sound and picture when looking at the menu or playlist. It allows me to set recordings and look at the playlist without missing any action on the broadcast or recording I'm watching. What's not to like about that? If it's something I don't want to hear, the remote has a mute button on it. 

You need to complaing to DirectTV if your DVR freezes weekly. Mine never does. They will replace it if the freezing problem exists. 

The reason there are so many TV sources is the same as the reason there are so many car choices. Direct TV, Dish, cable, OTA are all options for most of us. Since Direct TV has decided against providing TIVO's, if you don't like their DVR, select another program source. Most Direct TV customers are happy campers with the way things are. Look at the JD Powers satisfaction index of companies like Direct TV and you'll see what I mean.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

boneskrw said:


> ...Slow motion on my HR20 works as well as my HR10...


Well, that's shocking. Mindboggling.

On my HR10s Slomo is a button push. It's that simple. On my HR20, it's a nightmare.

Press-and-hold just plain blows. If I do "press and hold", the time bar flashes on and off repeatedly and randomly. If I'm lucky it eventually goes into slomo, but that is usually about 10 seconds after the point where I actually want it to, simply because it takes so long to happen. If I'm really lucky, I will notice this in time to take my finger off the button. If I don't, it comes right back out. Even with fresh batteries (heaven help you if they're a little bit weak) sometimes I have to drag myself over to the HR20 and position the remote right in front of it to increase my odds of success. It just doesn't work worth a hammered dog $#!+.

I can't imagine how it could be different for anyone else, and I can't imagine how this sad state of affairs could be considered the least bit comparable to the HR10 slomo experience, where the time bar clears instantly and everything happens just exactly the way it should. PAH/slomo is my chief complaint about the HR2x, and my chief reason to keep nursing my HR10's along well into their sunset years.

I'm guessing it might even be worse for those using universal or learning remotes, which don't always handle PAH commands all that well, or exactly the same way the original remotes do (Edmund? I know you're lurking...please chime in if you have an expert POV on this).


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## pretzelbag (Mar 12, 2003)

boneskrw said:


> You may want to try the RF feature for the remote. All you need to do is select the feature and it's there for you to use. No more need to aim the remote or be in the same room. What's not to like about that?


Doesn't an RF remote cost more than the infrared one, and/or is not standard with a DirecTV-provided HR20/21?

When I've been called by DirecTV about upgrading (I haven't yet), I've asked them if the RF remote is included and they say no, I must buy it. Then, I guess I'd be leasing a DVR and owning the remote...odd, eh?

-pretzelbag.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Pretz, my HR20 came with a standard remote, which does both IR and RF.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Yea, I think the remote I've gotten with my last three DirecTV recievers does both RF and IR. It's the standard now, at least with the HR series. YMMV obviously.


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## boneskrw (Jan 28, 2006)

Pretz,
Just switch to Menu and Setup and Remote. Do you have the option of RF or IR? Select RF and try it. That will tell you if RF is available. Your receive would have a small antenna in the rear if it is equipped to work with the RF-capable remote. 

The RF-capable remote is the white, kidney-shaped one, which, I believe, comes with all HR2X receivers.


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## joed32 (Jul 9, 2005)

boneskrw said:


> Pretz,
> Just switch to Menu and Setup and Remote. Do you have the option of RF or IR? Select RF and try it. That will tell you if RF is available. Your receive would have a small antenna in the rear if it is equipped to work with the RF-capable remote.
> 
> The RF-capable remote is the white, kidney-shaped one, which, I believe, comes with all HR2X receivers.


Actually most of the newer DVRs don't have an antenna they're built in.


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## pretzelbag (Mar 12, 2003)

Thanks guys, when I upgrade to an HR20/21 I will check it out. As I mentioned, I haven't yet upgraded from my HR10-250 so can't test anything. But you know what it's like when the installer shows up and does not have the right stuff...

-pretzelbag.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

joed32 said:


> Actually most of the newer DVRs don't have an antenna they're built in.


The HR20-700 has no external antenna.


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