# HR10 Replaced with HR20... Can I decline?



## kanderna (Nov 26, 2003)

Hi all,

I recently had an issue with my HR10 which DirecTV deemed necessary to replace. This is a unit that I purchased, and it was still under warranty. The replacement arrived today, and it's an HR20! Am I out of line to call them back and tell them to send me an HR10? I would think not considering I purchased this unit and it was still under warranty. Which actually begs another question. On a warranty replacement is it typical for them to send a reconditioned unit? Thanks!


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

There are no new HR10's available. There may be one or two for sale but DirecTV has no stock of them. So you could complain long enough and get a reconditioned HR10.

But since eventually you will probably want to switch to the HR20, why not give it a try for a month and let us know if it is as bad as everyone is saying. The other forum is complaining less and less about problems. I get the impression they are getting better problem wise.

Then if you still hate it you can call DTV and say you tried but you really want another HR10 for now.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

Be afraid. Be very afraid that D* may have reinstituted a programming committment. I would check to be sure.


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## kanderna (Nov 26, 2003)

That scares me that you say that. BUT... the CSR did tell me that a new commitment wouldn't be necessary. Hopefully that's the case.

It's a good point that I should try it to see if I like it, but I guess I'm opposed to moving away from the TiVo software. PLUS, this is not the unit that I purchased in the store. I guess I find it strange that they can replace it with a completely different unit. I don't know... maybe I'm expecting too much from them.


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## unixadm (Jan 1, 2001)

Did you send your HR10-250 to them? The HR-20 is a LEASE....you do not own it. If you purchased the HR10-250, you should definitely not send it back to them.


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## kanderna (Nov 26, 2003)

No, she told me I could dispose of the HR10 however I see fit.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

I just went through the same thing...I received 2 HR20's before D* told me they couldn't get me the HR10.

I was able to get a programming credit out of them which almost covered the cost of a new replacement hd which fixed the HR10.

If you decide to try the HR20, be aware that once it is activated you might run inot some difficulties with D* trying to give it back to them in lieu of the HR10.

Personally, I'd wait on the taking the HR20 as, right now ....it is _far_ from being a dependable unit IMO (although there are some people here that will tell you "well, _I_ haven't had a problem with it!").


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## kanderna (Nov 26, 2003)

I see that. I should have done a search before posting... I was just reading through your thread. Didn't even bother searching because I thought this seemed out of the ordinary. Apparently not!

I think I'll give them a call back and see what they have to say.


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## mrbillpsu00 (Oct 28, 2004)

The HR 20 isn't that bad.... I've been using mine since November, and have had pretty good luck.

The only Tivo feature I miss is the one where you FF, and stop, and it automatically kicks back a few seconds.. oh well.


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## kanderna (Nov 26, 2003)

Yeah, I called and got an affirmative that they won't send out anymore HR10s. He said that since the Tivo-DTV agreement is over, they can't ship HR10s. I said, "So I bought and paid for this thing at the store, it's still under warranty, and you won't replace it with the same unit?" 

His response was priceless (and strange) - He explained that I would have to deal with the store on warranty issues. He said that they only service the warranty for 90 days. I mentioned that the unit has a year-long warranty. He said "Yes, but the warranty with us is only 90 days. You'll have to take it back to the store."  

We got disconnected. Guess I'll try again tomorrow and see what ridiculous excuse I get.


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## Cmmsh (Jan 2, 2007)

kanderna said:


> Yeah, I called and got an affirmative that they won't send out anymore HR10s. He said that since the Tivo-DTV agreement is over, they can't ship HR10s. I said, "So I bought and paid for this thing at the store, it's still under warranty, and you won't replace it with the same unit?"
> 
> His response was priceless (and strange) - He explained that I would have to deal with the store on warranty issues. He said that they only service the warranty for 90 days. I mentioned that the unit has a year-long warranty. He said "Yes, but the warranty with us is only 90 days. You'll have to take it back to the store."
> 
> We got disconnected. Guess I'll try again tomorrow and see what ridiculous excuse I get.


Sometimes, you have to call back (and back and back  ) and get a different CSR to get what you want. The truth is that they do have some HR10-250s, but you have to get lucky. And as far as the warranty issue, they are feeding you a line. You need to call back until you get what you want, or at least until you get something satisfactory.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

Cmmsh said:


> The truth is that they do have some HR10-250s, but you have to get lucky.


How do you know that they have some HR10's?


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

Sir_winealot said:


> How do you know that they have some HR10's?


Because a neighbor of mine got one 2 days ago as a replacement.


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

Keep the HR20 and put a new hard drive in the HR10. Instant cake is really easy.


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## kanderna (Nov 26, 2003)

Well, truth be told... the modem went bad in the HR10, so the only thing that is wrong with it is that it won't call in. So I'll certainly be hanging on to it. Maybe I'm being a tad greedy  ?


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

kanderna said:


> That scares me that you say that. BUT... the CSR did tell me that a new commitment wouldn't be necessary. Hopefully that's the case.
> 
> It's a good point that I should try it to see if I like it, but I guess I'm opposed to moving away from the TiVo software. PLUS, this is not the unit that I purchased in the store. I guess I find it strange that they can replace it with a completely different unit. I don't know... maybe I'm expecting too much from them.


Here's something you may not understand: They haven't actually made any HR10s in over a year. It's a dead product in that sense. They just don't make 'em anymore. The only place you can buy them anymore is eBay and other online dealers. DirecTV may have a few referbs laying around but for the most part they don't have any either. The HR20 is their new DVR, just so happens it doesn't run Tivo software.

Also note that the HR10 can't receive any of the new HD that is coming and within a couple years the current HD will be moved to the KA sats and in MPEG4, which the HR10 cannot see or decode. It will still be good for OTA and SD however.

If the only thing that is dead on your HR10 is the modem and they are willing to give you a free HR20, use both. Then you'll be ready for the future and you'll still have the HR10 for extra tuners and storage.

If you plan to stay with DirecTV longterm you will just have to accept that Tivo isn't part of that plan.


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## kanderna (Nov 26, 2003)

Yeah, I know.... I do understand that. I guess I'm just in denial. I really like the TiVo software and am having a hard time letting go.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

I think someone needs to come up with a 10 step program.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

bonscott87 said:


> The only place you can buy [HR10s] anymore is eBay and other online dealers.


I'm not disagreeing with you point that these units are scarce, but I know of at least one B&M store still selling them at full price: Costco. My local Costco is selling them through the in-store Verizon kiosk for $749, and when activated, would be owned, not leased.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

kanderna said:


> Yeah, I know.... I do understand that. I guess I'm just in denial. I really like the TiVo software and am having a hard time letting go.


Seems like a win win if you can try it. You may have a more difficult time switching interfaces if your preference is that strong.

If you like DTV programming, it may make sense to grow a little with that unit. while you still enjoy what you know and like.

I'm enjoying my HR20, but I wouldn't have switched if not for new content (HD Locals).

Good luck


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

drew2k said:


> I'm not disagreeing with you point that these units are scarce, but I know of at least one B&M store still selling them at full price: Costco. My local Costco is selling them through the in-store Verizon kiosk for $749, and when activated, would be owned, not leased.


True, you can find it at a regular B&M store but it's pretty rare. And to be honest, why would you want to spend that kind of money on a unit that won't get any of the new HD and in a couple year be only good for OTA and SD?

It seems to me if you're going to spend that kind of money just for Tivo I would suggest get a Series 3 and go to cable.


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## Citivas (Oct 12, 2000)

HiDefGator said:


> There are no new HR10's available. There may be one or two for sale but DirecTV has no stock of them. So you could complain long enough and get a reconditioned HR10.
> 
> But since eventually you will probably want to switch to the HR20, why not give it a try for a month and let us know if it is as bad as everyone is saying. The other forum is complaining less and less about problems. I get the impression they are getting better problem wise.
> 
> Then if you still hate it you can call DTV and say you tried but you really want another HR10 for now.


The problems aren't getting better with the HR-20, the people are just complaining less on the other forum because thre is nothing new to say and because whenever anyone posts anything not 100 percent positive about the unit, they get flamed by all the DirecTV-iand-HR20-is-god-and-you-are-evil-to-say-anything-negative crowd that dominate that forum...

All I know is my unit still misses tons of scheduled recordings, freezes every few days, needs hard resets and that DirecTV says there is no point in sending a replcaement box because they are still acknowledging these things as known software issues that they are working to address...


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Citivas said:


> All I know is my unit still misses tons of scheduled recordings, freezes every few days, needs hard resets and that DirecTV says there is no point in sending a replcaement box because they are still acknowledging these things as known software issues that they are working to address...


Bummer. I was really hoping they were getting better. I've been with DTV for 10+ years now and I'm really looking forward to the new HD channels this summer. Maybe by then they will have more of the bugs worked out. From reading the other forum they do appear to be actively fixing the bugs. I guess there are still some left.


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## IOTP (Aug 7, 2001)

IF it, and you know for sure -- the hard drive, yes, instant cake is easy.

Get a 500G for $149, and instant cake for $20.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

HiDefGator said:


> Bummer. I was really hoping they were getting better. I've been with DTV for 10+ years now and I'm really looking forward to the new HD channels this summer. Maybe by then they will have more of the bugs worked out. From reading the other forum they do appear to be actively fixing the bugs. I guess there are still some left.


I have to weigh in just to say that the most frustrating thing with the HR20 is that not everyone experiences the same issues. I am practically issue free with the device. Folks like Citivas seem to go from one problem to the next.

The unit is really good for a lot of people. I like it and replaced my HR10 with it, but at the moment, I'd have to hold my breath if I recommended it to someone because I can't be sure that their experience will be mine or his/hers.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Citivas said:


> The problems aren't getting better with the HR-20, the people are just complaining less on the other forum because thre is nothing new to say and because whenever anyone posts anything not 100 percent positive about the unit, they get flamed by all the DirecTV-iand-HR20-is-god-and-you-are-evil-to-say-anything-negative crowd that dominate that forum...
> 
> All I know is my unit still misses tons of scheduled recordings, freezes every few days, needs hard resets and that DirecTV says there is no point in sending a replcaement box because they are still acknowledging these things as known software issues that they are working to address...


Sorry you're still having problems. But outside of a thread here or there most of the threads posted about problems are chocked full of people like myself trying to help and figure out why. In fact there is a recent survey up asking various questions to try to track down a pattern of issues.

The problem is people coming over there and posting "HR20 is a POS!!!!" instead of posting calmly asking for help. What do people expect if someone starts out a thread as a flame, not detailing their problem and not really asking for help. Flame feeds the fire folks. I haven't seen many of these types of threads in a couple weeks so perhaps people are now just asking for help or advice.

Recent updates have stabilized the box quite a bit and problems are fewer but still there for some.

For a data point I have had very few problems with the HR20 in the 6 months I've had it. Never missed a recording so far and have only had a couple lockups. I load up every release candidate and test it in an attempt to help DirecTV further stability. Especially since I have had few problems, if I can make something break perhaps it will help.

Anyway, good luck. And if a format of the drive doesn't help eliminate your problems then I would ask for replacement box. If you want one, they'll send it. Plus you'll probably get some credits for your trouble. Stop by DBStalk if you want to know how to format the drive.


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## ben0210 (Feb 4, 2007)

Sorry, bonscott87, but I beg to differ. People want a product that works. Some are interested in being a "beta tester", most are not. Directv sat on the HR20 issue problem for quite awhile before agreeing that there is problem. I have a HR20 and it works well for me. Others have not been so lucky. Consumers demand a product work like it is suppose to. They paid for the equipment! All people want to do is to plug it in and have it work, like it is suppose to. No more, no less. You can't flame a person (I'm not saying you did this) because they feel hosed about a product that doesn't work like it is advertised. People just want the product they purchased to work, without having to become testers, lab rats, etc. If a person bought a car and it didn't work as advertised, is that person suppose become an Automotive Engineer and start troubleshooting the product. Of course not. They take it back and get one that works or get their money back. The other forum is great if you are into tinkering and do it yourself type stuff. Most are not into it. So if it is the only forum around that deals with the HR20, don't know if it is or not, that is where people go to voice their opinion. Directv is control of the situation concerning the HR20. Yes, they finally agree there is a problem. However, it may come a little too late as it may cost them some of their customer base. Directv is in trouble of becoming the new cable company we remember of yester-year.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

ben0210 said:


> Sorry, bonscott87, but I beg to differ. People want a product that works. Some are interested in being a "beta tester", most are not. Directv sat on the HR20 issue problem for quite awhile before agreeing that there is problem. I have a HR20 and it works well for me. Others have not been so lucky. Consumers demand a product work like it is suppose to. They paid for the equipment! All people want to do is to plug it in and have it work, like it is suppose to. No more, no less. You can't flame a person (I'm not saying you did this) because they feel hosed about a product that doesn't work like it is advertised. People just want the product they purchased to work, without having to become testers, lab rats, etc. If a person bought a car and it didn't work as advertised, is that person suppose become an Automotive Engineer and start troubleshooting the product. Of course not. They take it back and get one that works or get their money back. The other forum is great if you are into tinkering and do it yourself type stuff. Most are not into it. So if it is the only forum around that deals with the HR20, don't know if it is or not, that is where people go to voice their opinion. Directv is control of the situation concerning the HR20. Yes, they finally agree there is a problem. However, it may come a little too late as it may cost them some of their customer base. Directv is in trouble of becoming the new cable company we remember of yester-year.


Only thing I'll say is they have been rolling out bug fixes since the box came out. Not sure why you think they didn't "admit" there is a problem. Don't listen to corporate or marketing, listen to the developers who have been plugged into the user community since nearly day one to work on the box. They've been trying to make the box more stable since release.

And it's certainly not too little/too late. There aren't all that many HR20s out there compared to their whole user base. Heck, there wasn't all that many HR10s out there. Grand total DirecTV has about 1 million, maybe 1.5 million HD users (out of 15+ million) and maybe half, if that, have one of the HD DVRs. Impact is minimal. If they lose a couple thousand subs due to problems with the HR20, heck they sign that many new ones up in a day. But they are working hard on the HR20 because as they said at CES it's the cornerstone of what they want to do in the future. 
They really have until fall when the new HD starts rolling out to get it right. If it's still not right by fall then it really is a failed product and they will be in trouble. But if they get it right by this summer the problems will be just a small blip on the radar, nothing more.


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## ben0210 (Feb 4, 2007)

While I can understand your point of view of as far as statistics, profit & loss ratios, and consumer reliability, lets face it, Directv laid and egg on this. Also, with exception of one man on the other forum, who is very and extemly helpful, Directv couldn't care less about the the HR20 when people started complaining about it. The fact is, it is a product that I, as well as others, would scream from the mountain tops about how wonderful their, Directv & Tivo's, product was. Also, this will not only affect current subs. Don't forget word of mouth advertising. Will Directv go under due to it, no! Could they have fewer subs than they would like, you bet. And until broadband internet delivers more television/movie/sport content, some people will still look at it as "which pile crap smells less. Cable or Satelite." My 2cents.


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## snickerrrrs (Mar 31, 2006)

People have been sending Directv used HR10-250 for a while now to get a free or discounted HR20. They take the units, repair them and put them into what is called "service stock". All service industries do this. Some people say they don't exist because they don't understand the service industry. These units are labeled "refurbished" and sent out to replace bad units if you have the "Directv Protection Plan". If you don't know any better, they'll send you a "door stop" called the HR20. 

Call customer service and insist on a HR10-250 or just replace the hard drive as most people here recommended. If customer service gives you a hard time ask to speak to Customer Retention. They'll be able to help you if voice your wishes strongly enough. If they won't help you, keep asking for that person's supervisor eventually you find someone that knows how to help you. But remember to be nice. Sometimes you have to call back another time to get a motivated CS rep. Good luck!

What ever you do don't listen to HiDefGator as he doesn't have to pay for your extended 2 year agreement when you send the HR20 back to Directv after" trying it".


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## Citivas (Oct 12, 2000)

bonscott87 said:


> Here's something you may not understand: They haven't actually made any HR10s in over a year. It's a dead product in that sense. They just don't make 'em anymore. The only place you can buy them anymore is eBay and other online dealers. DirecTV may have a few referbs laying around but for the most part they don't have any either. The HR20 is their new DVR, just so happens it doesn't run Tivo software.
> 
> Also note that the HR10 can't receive any of the new HD that is coming and within a couple years the current HD will be moved to the KA sats and in MPEG4, which the HR10 cannot see or decode. It will still be good for OTA and SD however.
> 
> ...


Yeah, except the HR20 doesn't work. What's the point of getting it now when it doesn't function as a reliable DVR? DirecTV even admits that. I know people who swapped it out twice and after the third try D* just said they would have to wait for them to fix the software. They won't even swap mine out for the same reason -- that they have acknowledged the software is not yet reliable and I am just supposed to wait month and month until the elusive day I can actually count on it to record my shows with any predicability. A DVR that is not reliable is not a DVR at all. Every single time I turn it on I hold my breath to see if it is the 1-in-3 times I will have to spend 20 minutes resetting the unit and losing all the recently recorded and corrupted shows. And then there is the 1/4th of my season passes which stubbornly insist there are no upcoming episodes to record even though they can be manually found in the schedule.

The HR20 is a disaster so far. And if that was just a few units that are the exception, then why would D* refuse to send replcaements and instead say they are "known issues" and that we have to wait for software fixes?

If I wasn't stuck with mine, I would rather revert to more reliable SD units than get an HR20 right now.


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## iaflyer (Oct 21, 2001)

Another reason I believe people are "putting up with" or saying that "the problems aren't that bad" the HR20 is that just isn't another choice for some people. If you want local channels in HD, are new to DirecTV and want a HD DVR or any of the new HD channels they claim to be rolling out, the HR20 is your only choice. 

I think that if the new Tivo Series 3 was available to work with DirecTV and the MPEG4 channels, there would be very few users of the HR20.

For me, I tried the HR20, decided it didn't meet my pretty basic needs (record what I want when I want, and play it back) and returned it. Got a HR10 off of Ebay and am using that. If/When the DirecTV removes MPEG2 HD channels or I want additonal channels that are only available in MPEG4 format, I'll be off to Comcast and a Series 3.

Oh, and I've been with DirecTV over 5 years.


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## kanderna (Nov 26, 2003)

Thanks all for your opinion. While I've prepared myself for the possibility that I may have to keep the HR20, I've left it packed up and will try my best to get an HR10. I've dealt with advanced tech support in the past, which I'm told is the department that handles sending out the replacement units. Should I continue to work with them, or should I move on to retention? And potentially working in my favor... I'm currently not in an agreement. (Although I'm pretty sure I should be, I was told that I wasn't the last time I called. )


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Citivas said:


> If I wasn't stuck with mine, I would rather revert to more reliable SD units than get an HR20 right now.


You can you know.

And again, I appreciate your experiences, but mine are opposite, so I disagree with the broad brush you use to paint the HR20.

But I have an SD unit for you, make me an offer. 190 hours, hacked with network capabilities etc.

I'm not joking when I say that if I were experiencing those problems, it would not be in my main HT system. It would be upstairs learning to please me. I'm sure your experiences are real. Don't fight it anymore if it isn't working for you. Switch back.

Moreso, if you have DTV on the line telling you that it doesn't work and that it's their fault (this I don't believe) then they should be happy to take it back and release you from your commitment.

Anyway, good luck, I know you're frustrated, but you have lots of DVR options.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

Billy66 said:


> Moreso, if you have DTV on the line telling you that it doesn't work and that it's their fault (this I don't believe) then they should be happy to take it back and release you from your commitment.


Why wouldn't you believe it, you think he's _lying _ about this?  Why would he do that?

Believe it or not, when I've called D* (lost count) I too have been told that the issues I'm having are 'known...we're having a lot of problems with the unit' and that they're working on it.


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

Billy66 said:


> Moreso, if you have DTV on the line telling you that it doesn't work and that it's their fault (this I don't believe) then they should be happy to take it back and release you from your commitment.


Well, actually, no. I've had several DirecTV support and retention reps admit to me that there are widespread problems with the HR20.

This did not matter to them when I asked to be released from the contractual commitment extension I entered into in order to get the HR20.

They maintain that if I cancel service because of my dissatisfaction with the HR20 (there being no other HD DVR option from them) I will be charged the pro-rated early termination fee.


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## Citivas (Oct 12, 2000)

Billy66 said:


> You can you know.
> 
> And again, I appreciate your experiences, but mine are opposite, so I disagree with the broad brush you use to paint the HR20.
> 
> ...


I have several SD Tivo units sitting around in my basement ready to go. That's not the problem. The problem is that even though DirecTV openly admits to me that my unit has serious stability and reliability issues due to "know software issues that we are working on" they will not allow it to be returned or the contract associated with it cancelled. This was true even less than 2 weeks after it arrived and is still true months later as I still await it to work. And they refuse to send a replcaement unit for the same reason -- that it is a known software issue. That's nice for you that you are somehow immune, but I know many more people who have had problems than those that have not. Over on the other forum they even had a poll with 350 responses and 80% said they have experienced the serious bugs...


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

Citivas said:


> Over on the other forum they even had a poll with 350 responses and 80% said they have experienced the serious bugs...


I bet the numbers would be a lot worse if the mods didnt have a dirty little habit of banning users who "complain" too much.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Citivas said:


> And they refuse to send a replcaement unit for the same reason -- that it is a known software issue.


If you want a replacement all you gotta do is call up and say the thing won't boot up. You'll have a FedEx replacement at your door in a couple days.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Sir_winealot said:


> Why wouldn't you believe it, you think he's _lying _ about this?  Why would he do that?
> 
> Believe it or not, when I've called D* (lost count) I too have been told that the issues I'm having are 'known...we're having a lot of problems with the unit' and that they're working on it.


Didn't mean to strike a nerve. Re-reading I can see how that came accross. I just meant that I thought his comments were a summary of what he heard. What I doubt is an on the record admission by DTV that the unit does not work.

Didn't meant to call you a liar Citivas. just meant that I'm not sure what you were hearing were comments endorsed by DTV.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Citivas said:


> That's nice for you that you are somehow immune, but I know many more people who have had problems than those that have not. Over on the other forum they even had a poll with 350 responses and 80% said they have experienced the serious bugs...


And it's too bad for you that yours is riddled. Should I pretend I have problems that I don't?

Anyway, sorry for your experience. I wouldn't have switched if I were you. If I experienced what you are now, I wouldn't take it, I'd change back and if I wanted out of the commitment, I would fight it if they are declaring what they provided you in exchange for that commitment as no good.

You don't have to take no for an answer.

In any case, didn't mean to make it personal with the lying bit.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

Citivas said:


> I have several SD Tivo units sitting around in my basement ready to go. That's not the problem. The problem is that even though DirecTV openly admits to me that my unit has serious stability and reliability issues due to "know software issues that we are working on" they will not allow it to be returned or the contract associated with it cancelled. This was true even less than 2 weeks after it arrived and is still true months later as I still await it to work. And they refuse to send a replcaement unit for the same reason -- that it is a known software issue. That's nice for you that you are somehow immune, but I know many more people who have had problems than those that have not. Over on the other forum they even had a poll with 350 responses and 80% said they have experienced the serious bugs...


There are some bugs with HR20. Although my unit is stable as a rock and works great, people on dbstalk.com report all kind of different problems.
Same goes for S3 TiVo. Just read the S3 forum. There are also known bugs with HR10-250 and even series 2. People just learn to live with them. Your problems with HR20 sure sound like possibly defective unit. 
How do you pay for your service? If you pay by check, then just send DirecTV certified letter stating that you canceling the service because equipment they provided does not work as advertised and that you'll not pay any cancellation fees. If you pay by credit card it is even easier. Just call your credit card and stop the payment. You'd be surprised how fast you'll get your replacement unit!


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## Citivas (Oct 12, 2000)

bizzy said:


> I bet the numbers would be a lot worse if the mods didnt have a dirty little habit of banning users who "complain" too much.


Just the opposite. The Forum overall is dominated by die-hard DirecTV apologists, including the moderator. Whenever anyone says anything negative about DirecTV or the HR20 a bunch of people shime in the flame them. So the results were DESPITE the overwhelming bias toward the HR20. The same forum has different posts that ask people if they like the HR20 and a majority say they do. So the 80% listing major bugs is from the same group who are HR20 fans overall.


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

Citivas said:


> Just the opposite. The Forum overall is dominated by die-hard DirecTV apologists, including the moderator. Whenever anyone says anything negative about DirecTV or the HR20 a bunch of people shime in the flame them. So the results were DESPITE the overwhelming bias toward the HR20. The same forum has different posts that ask people if they like the HR20 and a majority say they do. So the 80% listing major bugs is from the same group who are HR20 fans overall.


I agree with you 100%! What I should have said was 'worse _for the HR20_'.


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## Citivas (Oct 12, 2000)

samo said:


> There are some bugs with HR20. Although my unit is stable as a rock and works great, people on dbstalk.com report all kind of different problems.
> Same goes for S3 TiVo. Just read the S3 forum. There are also known bugs with HR10-250 and even series 2. People just learn to live with them. Your problems with HR20 sure sound like possibly defective unit.
> How do you pay for your service? If you pay by check, then just send DirecTV certified letter stating that you canceling the service because equipment they provided does not work as advertised and that you'll not pay any cancellation fees. If you pay by credit card it is even easier. Just call your credit card and stop the payment. You'd be surprised how fast you'll get your replacement unit!


I do read the S3 forum and have been reading this forum since they released the 10-250. There is a VAST difference between the level of bugs, widespread nature of them (and the fact that DirecTV even admits they are "known issues" in the entire model set which is why they won't replcae the units which was bnever the case with comparable 10-250 issues). A vast majority of 10-250 have not had to regularly accept that their programming records completely corrupted, unwatchable until a reset that automatically deletes the programming. But 80% of 350 respondents have experienced this with the HR20 according to a poll in a forum of mostly fans of the HR20.

Look, this is simple. If this is a problem with only a minority of users due to a hardware issue, DirecTV should replace the defective units. But in my case and many others I know, they are saying they can't replace it because it is a "known software issue we are working on." And this is their response, more than once, to my describing having to hard reset the box every 3 days on average and losing approximately 40 percent of my recorded shows to the bug. This is also their answer to why about 20 percent of my series links (season pass equivilents) never record and always say there are no uncoming episodes even though there are and you can find them manually in the guide -- and they record fine on the 10-250.

So if this is not really a software issue, why wouldn't they make their life easier and send me a new box?


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## websthetics (Nov 4, 2004)

Fahtrim said:


> Keep the HR20 and put a new hard drive in the HR10. Instant cake is really easy.


I'm in the same boat and that's what I'm going to do. The HR20 should be here today or tomorrow. My HR10 started locking up twice a day about a week ago. A clear and delete didn't fix the problem. I'm going to pull the drive and run some diagnostics on it. If it passes, I'll instant cake it and hold it until I have enough time to evaluate the HR20.

The CSR did tell me I'd extend my contract by two years. Not a big deal for me since Sunday Ticket is a must and that runs through 2010. I'm not going anywhere.

What is this "other forum" people keep referring to? I'd like to read up a little on the HR20 to be a little prepared. Is it taboo to mention the other forum in public?


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## Citivas (Oct 12, 2000)

websthetics said:


> I'm in the same boat and that's what I'm going to do. The HR20 should be here today or tomorrow. My HR10 started locking up twice a day about a week ago. A clear and delete didn't fix the problem. I'm going to pull the drive and run some diagnostics on it. If it passes, I'll instant cake it and hold it until I have enough time to evaluate the HR20.
> 
> The CSR did tell me I'd extend my contract by two years. Not a big deal for me since Sunday Ticket is a must and that runs through 2010. I'm not going anywhere.
> 
> What is this "other forum" people keep referring to? I'd like to read up a little on the HR20 to be a little prepared. Is it taboo to mention the other forum in public?


dbstalk.com. There is a sub-forum dedicated to the HR20. Lots of post activity, probably even more than here...


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## websthetics (Nov 4, 2004)

Citivas said:


> dbstalk. There is a sub-forum dedicated to the HR20. Lots of post activity, probably even more than here...


Ah, thanks. I should have known that. Good site. Lots of good info with the undocumented features and setting up the networking. Got my fingers crossed on this HR20. TiVo has been so great over the past 4 or 5 years for me. I hate to give it up on the main TV but I'm willing to give the new technology a shot.


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## 20TIL6 (Sep 7, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> I think someone needs to come up with a 10 step program.


 Step 01: Buy an S3 for around $600, someplaces for less

Step 02: Transfer your DTiVo lifetime if you have one, otherwise get 3 years for $299

Step 03: Buy an OTA antenna - Free locals in HD!!

Step 04: Subscribe to Comcast, TWC, FiOS, etc. with cable cards - Content wise, this could be optional, see Step 05

Step 05: Connect the S3 to broadband and get ready for Amazon Unbox downloads

Step 06: Call to cancel DTV service

Step 07: Talk to DTV retention

Step 08: Still talking to DTV retention

Step 09: DTV service has been cancelled, or retention offers such incentives that keeping their service becomes such a damn bargain that you might as well just keep it until they revoke the discounts - the result of this step has no impact on your success, but do nothing to lock yourself into a 2 year commitment with DTV. This most likely means refusing "free" equipment.

Step 10: Sit back, know that you spent some bucks, but know that what you spent money on (the S3) is full featured (OK, no TTG or MRV right now, but DTV/TiVo's lacked that anyway), reliable, and has the interface and logic features that TiVo users demand. Enjoy uncompressed HD via OTA, enjoy equally good HD via cable, enjoy the coming benefits of a broadband connected TiVo.

I was a former, 12 year DTV customer with two SAT-T60's and one Samsung series 2 DTV/TiVo's. I followed these steps recently and they work. I am once again in TV/TiVo Nirvana.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

20TIL6 said:


> Step 01: Buy an S3 for around $600, someplaces for less
> 
> Step 02: Transfer your DTiVo lifetime if you have one, otherwise get 3 years for $299


I think they aren't offering lifetime xfer any longer from DTV. To avoid the commitments you mention in step 9 then it's going to be $19/month.


> Step 03: Buy an OTA antenna - Free locals in HD!!


Anyone with HD via DTV likely already has one. The HR10 and HR20 both support this and have for a long time.



> Step 04: Subscribe to Comcast, TWC, FiOS, etc. with cable cards - Content wise, this could be optional, see Step 05


Be careful of any SDV in your area as well as poison channels. Cablecard support is sketchy, but hey, you may get lucky.



> Step 05: Connect the S3 to broadband and get ready for Amazon Unbox downloads


I will wait by my Xbox which already does this and doesn't charge a monthly subscription or annual commitment like TiVo. I'm sure it will be "weeks not months" until you have something real.



> Step 06: Call to cancel DTV service


Now we're getting somewhere!



> Step 07: Talk to DTV retention


Still good.



> Step 08: Still talking to DTV retention


It's nice to talk to people who care.



> Step 09: DTV service has been cancelled, or retention offers such incentives that keeping their service becomes such a damn bargain that you might as well just keep it until they revoke the discounts - the result of this step has no impact on your success, but do nothing to lock yourself into a 2 year commitment with DTV. This most likely means refusing "free" equipment.


Don't lock myself into a commitment of 2 years, but lock myself into TiVo for 3? The cancellation fee is more with TiVo because it isn't even pro-rated.



> Step 10: Sit back, know that you spent some bucks, but know that what you spent money on (the S3) is full featured (OK, no TTG or MRV right now, but DTV/TiVo's lacked that anyway), reliable, and has the interface and logic features that TiVo users demand. Enjoy uncompressed HD via OTA, enjoy equally good HD via cable, enjoy the coming benefits of a broadband connected TiVo.


Or sit back with a hacked HR10 and enjoy all of those features that you are waiting for. Take your free HR20 and learn that there is more than one way to apply logic and that it's not cheating on TiVo to try something for free.

I'd not be all that impressed with OTA locals because as a DTV subscriber i've had them for years. I'll enjoy MPEG4 locals and if I'm going to wait for something it will be more HD content as opposed to dancing clown features.

DTV is offering broadband streaming of music and video right now and you (nor anyone) knows if they'll be doing video before your HMO options are enabled.


> I was a former, 12 year DTV customer with two SAT-T60's and one Samsung series 2 DTV/TiVo's. I followed these steps recently and they work. I am once again in TV/TiVo Nirvana.


Awesome for you. I mean that. Others may experience something else on both ends. If it's free to try, I say go for it!


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

LOL. Here is my personal problem with it.



20TIL6 said:


> Step 01: Buy an S3 for around $600, someplaces for less
> 
> Step 02: Transfer your DTiVo lifetime if you have one, otherwise get 3 years for $299


$900 bucks. Ouch. Waaaaaay too expensive for my blood.



> Step 04: Subscribe to Comcast, TWC, FiOS, etc. with cable cards - Content wise, this could be optional, see Step 05


Problem...Charter. They suck. Less HD then even DirecTV and more expensive. Cable cards, they don't know how to spell them.


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## websthetics (Nov 4, 2004)

Charter here, too. I feel dirty enough using their cable modem service but they are the only player in town right now.

Another deal killer for me would be NFL Sunday Ticket. DTV would probably need to rape or murder a close family member to get me to drop their service. 

I got my HR20 Tuesday. Had no trouble setting it up but then I had trouble activating it. Sounds like the card was already active under another account. Still waiting for Moe, Larry or Curly to get this resolved.


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## pmiranda (Feb 12, 2003)

Step 11 of the switch to an S3:
Watch in horror as your cableco slowly starts placing channels on SDV so you can't get them with a cablecard anymore.

I love my S3 but I'm afraid I'll keep losing channels until a S4 with two-way cablecard support comes out (and I spend big bucks to upgrade again), or some magic happens for a MPEG-4 D* TiVo to be released (and I spend big bucks to switch).

Are the HD channels carried in MPEG-4 full 1080i or 720p, or the same "HD-lite" I've heard about?

BTW, Why does everyone use the abbreviation D* ? Is it just to save typing or do you fear they will track you down and smote you?


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

pmiranda said:


> BTW, Why does everyone use the abbreviation D* ? Is it just to save typing or do you fear they will track you down and smote you?


People used to abbreviate Echostar (the Dish folks) as E*- E star, get it?
So to save some typing, D* became the equivalent abbreviation for DirecTV.

Makes no sense, but seems to work.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

pmiranda said:


> Are the HD channels carried in MPEG-4 full 1080i or 720p, or the same "HD-lite" I've heard about?


The MPEG4 are not what people call HDlite. Only the MPEG2 HD channels are reduced that way. (from 1980x1080i to 1280x1080i) All the new MPEG4 channels are 1980x1080i.


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

Billy66 said:


> The MPEG4 are not what people call HDlite. Only the MPEG2 HD channels are reduced that way. (from 1980x1080i to 1280x1080i) All the new MPEG4 channels are 1980x1080i.


got a source for that?


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

pmiranda said:


> Step 11 of the switch to an S3:
> Watch in horror as your cableco slowly starts placing channels on SDV so you can't get them with a cablecard anymore.


This is actually a good point. Cable is going to rapidly move to this as they have to, to compete with the amount of HD channels both E* and D* will be carrying. D*'s capacity will be more then cable and cable will have to do something.



> Are the HD channels carried in MPEG-4 full 1080i or 720p, or the same "HD-lite" I've heard about?


Right now MPEG4 is only used for HD locals and RSN's in HD. In markets that have the newer encoders MPEG4 is virtually identical to the OTA signal. OTA is still king but MPEG4 is pretty close. In market where the encoders haven't been updated yet MPEG4 can look like bunk. I think it's safe to say that at the national uplink center for the national channels they'll have the better encoders. 



> BTW, Why does everyone use the abbreviation D* ? Is it just to save typing or do you fear they will track you down and smote you?


Back in the day most of the DBS providers had "star" in their name.

A* = Alphastar
P* = Primestar
E* = Echostar (Dish Network)
So D* became shorthand for DirecTV over time.


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## kanderna (Nov 26, 2003)

Well, fairly certain I'm stuck with the HR20. Just got off the phone w/ retention, and they were actually going to let me cancel (w/o trying to keep me) until I stopped them at the last minute and told them I had to run it by the wife. They kept calling it an upgrade. Must say that I disagree. Oh well, guess I'll have to give it a shot.


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