# HDMI Issues



## weatherlover1 (Apr 7, 2010)

We have our Tivo Premiere hooked up with the HDMI cable. The last few months it would sometimes take us turning the TV of and on a few times to get the picture to show up. Yesterday it would not show a picture till we rebooted the tivo and then it only worked until we turned the TV off. When we turn it back on again no picture. We unplugged the hdmi tried the 2nd port still nothing. I finally hooked up the video with rca coax cable and its working. We are going to try a new hdmi cable to see if that is the issue. I was just wondering if anyone else has had or is having this issue?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Try hooking up the RCA *AND* the HDMI cable (yes I know that's annoying), and when no picture is showing up, switch to the composite (RCA) inputs. Is the TV now saying that HDCP is not supported?

I have a TivoHD and that's what I'm seeing (I only recently got a TV that supports HDMI). I haven't tried turning off & on the TV multiple times.

It's really retarded that the Tivo doesn't put out the "your TV doesn't support HDCP" info ON THE HDMI OUTPUT.. at least that's what I see.. I get a blank screen, and see that info only when I use another input (WHILE HDMI is connected).

I may post about this in the S3 thread since it's off topic here -- but may be the same thing you're running into.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Just connect up the component video cables and do away with the HDMI cable and its Digital Rights Managed big brother bugs. Video and audio quality is the same and the tivo does not need 'permission' to send each video or channel.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

jcthorne said:


> Just connect up the component video cables and do away with the HDMI cable and its Digital Rights Managed big brother bugs. Video and audio quality is the same and the tivo does not need 'permission' to send each video or channel.


Video and audio quality technically isn't the same -- one is digital (which the original recording is), and one is analog. Note, I am *not* someone who says digital is inherently better than analog.. but in this case, not having to do a conversion *could* make a difference... though presumably one is unlikely to notice a difference.. except I believe the audio is 5.1 via HDMI.

HOWEVER, in my case, it is actually more for cabling convenience than for video/audio quality. I *just* bought a new TV, and it having *3* HDMI connections vs 2 for others was one of the reasons I bought it.. and now I apparently can't even use the HDMI connections.. (I borrowed another HDMI cable, same problem..)

I still think the originator should try my suggestion to CONFIRM that is the problem.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

mattack said:


> Video and audio quality technically isn't the same -- one is digital (which the original recording is), and one is analog. Note, I am *not* someone who says digital is inherently better than analog.. but in this case, not having to do a conversion *could* make a difference... though presumably one is unlikely to notice a difference.. except I believe the audio is 5.1 via HDMI.
> 
> HOWEVER, in my case, it is actually more for cabling convenience than for video/audio quality. I *just* bought a new TV, and it having *3* HDMI connections vs 2 for others was one of the reasons I bought it.. and now I apparently can't even use the HDMI connections.. (I borrowed another HDMI cable, same problem..)
> 
> I still think the originator should try my suggestion to CONFIRM that is the problem.


Digital audio out does not require HDMI, that is what the optical port is for.

The video signal is not 100% digital no matter what and most folks would agree that an analog 1080p signal presented properly is far better than an HDMI signal with service interuptions because you do not have permission to use the signal. There is VERY little to no difference in picture qualtiy if good connections and displays are used on both. It was just a suggestion to relieve oneself of the problems the DRM has brought you. A digital HDMI connection without all those problems would have been great. It is not to be.


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## jtreid (Jan 12, 2006)

jcthorne said:


> The video signal is not 100% digital no matter what and most folks would agree that an analog 1080p signal presented properly is far better than an HDMI signal...


Am I mistaken in thinking that 1080p is only available via HDMI and NOT available via component? I thought this to be the case due to copy protection of 1080p video.


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## MrJedi (Apr 13, 2011)

jtreid said:


> Am I mistaken in thinking that 1080p is only available via HDMI and NOT available via component? I thought this to be the case due to copy protection of 1080p video.


My understanding is that this is only true when HDCP is on and does a forced downgrade to 720p and in some cases 480p. If the content you are watching does not have HDCP enabled then there is no reason you can't view content at 1080p provided your TV is cable of displaying that resolution.

Starting this year Blu-Ray manufacturers are starting to make HDMI only players, with no more players being manufactured with component by the end of the year. And if I recall correctly any new Blu-Ray released starting December I believe can force a downgraded signal of 480p if HDCP is not detected. Currently it is only allowed to be downgraded to 720p if HDCP is not detected. Because the entertainment industry is always concerned about piracy, they basically wanted to make component obsolete by disallowing it the ability to provide a 1080p signal from your Blu-Ray player. Using component cables is currently one way to bypass copy-protection on Blu-Ray but maintain a 1080p signal and they wanted to close that method.

So to answer your question if the signal does not have HDCP enabled then both HDMI and component can display 1080p. If it is enabled then only HDMI can carry the 1080p signal.

EDIT: I was a little off on the Blu-Ray thing. Can't find the original article I read but, this is a summary: http://www.tvpredictions.com/bluhdmit011211.htm

And Component: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_video#Analog_component_video


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

I will stay out of the HDMI versus composite debate. Regardless the Original Posters HDMI should still work. I went through HDMI issues when I got my refurbished Series 3 and had to return several units. 

So I will go back to the Original Poster's question. Have many people seen HDMI issues with their Premieres? Any other recommendations for him other than calling TiVo? 

weatherlover1: Did you get the problem fixed? If so how? 

Thanks,


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## hooper (Sep 22, 2007)

What kind of TV do you have? Does it by chance have any proprietary tech for controlling other same brand equipment over HDMI? If so, turn it off.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

atmuscarella said:


> I will stay out of the HDMI versus composite debate. Regardless the Original Posters HDMI should still work. I went through HDMI issues when I got my refurbished Series 3 and had to return several units.


What were your issues? Were they that it said HDCP didn't work?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

mattack said:


> What were your issues? Were they that it said HDCP didn't work?


Sorry if my post was confusing. I do not have any current issues just wanted to re-focus on the Original Posters problem.

On the refurbished Series 3 units the HDMI ports just didn't work (got nothing on screen). I ended up returning 2 units with that problem.  The unit I ended up with works fine.

Thanks,


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

jtreid said:


> Am I mistaken in thinking that 1080p is only available via HDMI and NOT available via component? I thought this to be the case due to copy protection of 1080p video.


You would be mistaken. Tivo outputs 1080p just fine over component video cables. In our home it distributes those signals throughout the home fine as well. Something HDMI cannot do because of cable length restrictions.

The restrictions on playback of bluray players is one reason I will not own one. The only bluray reader I have is in one of my laptops and used to transfer films to our server for viewing on our tivo. I will not play the DRM virus infected HDMI game.

For sources available only on HDMI, HDMI to component converters are avialable, legal and of very high quality.


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## jtreid (Jan 12, 2006)

atmuscarella said:


> Sorry if my post was confusing. I do not have any current issues just wanted to re-focus on the Original Posters problem.
> 
> On the refurbished Series 3 units the HDMI ports just didn't work (got nothing on screen). I ended up returning 2 units with that problem. The unit I ended up with works fine.
> 
> Thanks,


Can we just stay on topic here? Geeze! The guy wants to know if he has a problem with his Premere and if anyone else has a similar problem then you have to talk about your refurbished series 3 and returning 2 units? Are you focusing on the OP's problem or hijacking the thread?


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## boxxr (Sep 22, 2007)

weatherlover1 said:


> We have our Tivo Premiere hooked up with the HDMI cable. The last few months it would sometimes take us turning the TV of and on a few times to get the picture to show up. Yesterday it would not show a picture till we rebooted the tivo and then it only worked until we turned the TV off. When we turn it back on again no picture. We unplugged the hdmi tried the 2nd port still nothing. I finally hooked up the video with rca coax cable and its working. We are going to try a new hdmi cable to see if that is the issue. I was just wondering if anyone else has had or is having this issue?


I have the EXACT same problem. Mine started about a month ago. Usually just disconnecting the HDMI cable from the back of the Premiere and reconnecting brought the video back. I haven't tried RCA connection as of yet. I have an old Dell TV that only supports 720 i/p. I have Tivo set to 720P. If I connect my HDMI cable to my Blue Ray player it works, my only issue is with the Tivo and HDMI.

I don't have a solution but at least I can confirm that you are not alone.

-Karl


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## jjd416 (Nov 24, 2009)

I have the same problem with mine that is connected to a Yamaha receiver. I called TiVo support yesterday and was told the following:

The Premiere was originally designed to be hooked up directly to a TV and not to a receiver. TiVo has been seeing a lot of complaints lately with Premieres hooked up to a receiver as this hookup is becoming more popular. The Premiere sends out a "handshake" looking for a HDMI compatible device to receive its signal. The receiver must return the handshake. If it doesn't, then the Premiere doesn't send the picture. Support suggested unplugging the HDMI cable out of the back of the Premiere, waiting 15 seconds and then plugging it back in. If that doesn't work, then try doing the same by unplugging the HDMI cable out of the receiver that is coming in from the Premiere. If that doesn't work, then unplug the HDMI cable out of the back of the receiver that goes to the TV. And finally if that doesn't work, then unplug the HDMI cable from the TV.

I had to do this scenario this morning. It starting working after I did the second step of unplugging the HDMI cable out of the back of the receiver that was coming in from the Premeire.

My second Premiere is connected directly to my TV and I've never had the same problem with that setup.

Hope this helps!


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## hooper (Sep 22, 2007)

Having a THX certified box only connected to a TV.... 

I am using a Denon receiver with my Premiere without issue. Once again on these receivers, there are hdmi passthrough modes so you can watch TV without the receiver being on. Try turning these settings on/off. I leave mine off as I have no need to watch TV without my receiver being on.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

> ....The Premiere was originally designed to be hooked up directly to a TV and not to a receiver. TiVo has been seeing a lot of complaints lately with Premieres hooked up to a receiver as this hookup is becoming more popular........



Even in the 90's I didn't hook my devices directly to the TV. They went through a receiver. And for the last six years I've only had a handful of HDMI devices connected to the TV while the other dozens of HDMI devices went through receivers, switches etc.

Although I've yet to have any issues with my Premieres HDMI output even though in my main setup they are going through multiple HDMI switches, an Algolith HDMI Flea detail enhancer, a DVDO DUO scaler and a Denon receiver before going to the TVs HDMI input. If it came down to it, I would stop using my Premiere before I either use analog:down: again or connect it directly to the TV.


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## rdodolak (Dec 18, 2008)

jjd416 said:


> The Premiere was originally designed to be hooked up directly to a TV and not to a receiver. TiVo has been seeing a lot of complaints lately with Premieres hooked up to a receiver as this hookup is becoming more popular. The Premiere sends out a "handshake" looking for a HDMI compatible device to receive its signal. The receiver must return the handshake. If it doesn't, then the Premiere doesn't send the picture. Support suggested unplugging the HDMI cable out of the back of the Premiere, waiting 15 seconds and then plugging it back in. If that doesn't work, then try doing the same by unplugging the HDMI cable out of the receiver that is coming in from the Premiere. If that doesn't work, then unplug the HDMI cable out of the back of the receiver that goes to the TV. And finally if that doesn't work, then unplug the HDMI cable from the TV.


Not sure why TiVo is blaming the receiver. If the TiVo was hooked up directly to the TV via HDMI the TV still has to return the handshake too. The receiver would be no different.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

atmuscarella said:


> On the refurbished Series 3 units the HDMI ports just didn't work (got nothing on screen).


"got nothing on screen" could be exactly what I'm talking about.. I "got nothing on screen" when hooking up with HDMI too.. because the Tivo thinks it can't do HDCP.. which I confirm by hooking both composite & HDMI at the same time.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

With RF, composite, S-Video, and component, TiVos just put the signal on the wire, whether there's anything at the other end of the wire or not.

With HDMI, there has to be something on the other end of the wire that gives it permission to put the signal on there.


Which scheme do you think will be more susceptible to intermittent failures?


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## RickNY (Sep 17, 2007)

My Premiere just stopped outputting HDMI yesterday on me after being in service since December.. I've made no changes at all in my setup, cabling, etc. The Premiere is hooked up via (1) HDMI cable to a Monoprice 1x2 Powered HDMI Splitter and via composite/RCA cables to a Slingbox AV. This exact same configuration was used on my TivoHD for 2 years prior to December, when I replaced the HD with the Premiere.. 

Last night, I went to watch TV in the bedroom, and got 'No Sync' on the TV. My Living Room TV just shows a bouncing LG logo on HDMI1.

To rule out the HDMI splitter, I removed it, and hooked each of the two TVs up separately to the HDMI port on the Premiere -- still get no output on either TV. I've tried rebooting to no avail.. I'm almost certain the HDMI port is shot on the Premiere.

Also -- if I go into 'System Info' via the Slingbox, it shows 'HDMI Status' as "Not Connected"

Rick


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Again -- what happens if you look at the component or composite output (WHILE THE HDMI IS CONNECTED)? Does it show you that 'hdcp is not supported'?


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## RickNY (Sep 17, 2007)

mattack said:


> Again -- what happens if you look at the component or composite output (WHILE THE HDMI IS CONNECTED)? Does it show you that 'hdcp is not supported'?


In my case, no. I do not receive any type of message like that if I view over the composite connection.. The HDMI port outputs nothing at all. System Info shows 'Not connected' for HDMI.. And composite ports output normally (which is the only way I can watch for the time being.. I plan on calling Tivo to put in a warranty request)


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

RickNY said:


> My Premiere just stopped outputting HDMI yesterday on me after being in service since December.. I've made no changes at all in my setup, cabling, etc. The Premiere is hooked up via (1) HDMI cable to a Monoprice 1x2 Powered HDMI Splitter and via composite/RCA cables to a Slingbox AV. This exact same configuration was used on my TivoHD for 2 years prior to December, when I replaced the HD with the Premiere..
> 
> Last night, I went to watch TV in the bedroom, and got 'No Sync' on the TV. My Living Room TV just shows a bouncing LG logo on HDMI1.
> 
> ...


So, the Slingbox (something with which I have no experience whatsoever) takes red, white, and yellow RCA plug signals from the TiVo and sends it to the bedroom TV?

The HDMI output of the TiVo feeds the HDMI splitter, which feeds the livingroom TV and what else?

Does the bedroom TV have an HDMI input which you do not use except when you drag it into the living room to test the TiVo?

Does your Tivo have component video outputs (red, green, blue RCA jacks), and do either of your TVs have those inputs and have you tried that combo?

Have you tried feeding the Slingbox with some other source and seeing if that makes it through to the bedroom?


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## RickNY (Sep 17, 2007)

I'll elaborate...

Tivo Connections:

Composite (Yellow), Analog Audio (Red & White) -> To Slingbox. Slingbox connected via wired Ethernet, and is available locally as well as from the Internet.

HDMI -> 3 foot HDMI cable to Monoprice 1-2 HDMI Powered splitter. From there, one 6 foot HDMI cable goes to Denon AVR-2309CI TV/Sat HDMI Input. The other split is a 25 foot HDMI cable that is run directly to bedroom Insignia TV.

The Denon AVR-2309CI is responsible for all HDMI switching to the Living Room TV (LG LCD). All output is to HDMI1 on LG TV, and consists of input from 1) Tivo 2) LG Blu-Ray.

For troubleshooting purposes, I have removed ALL connections, splitters, etc and attempted just HDMI connection direct to both TVs (For the bedroom TV, it was not necessary to drag it in to the Tivo -- the cable in the AV cabinet goes directly to that TV). My tests have included 1) Only HDMI connection direct to Insignia TV, result: 'NO SYNC' on Insignia. 2) Only HDMI connection direct to LG TV, result: same (although LG just displays bouncing LG logo when it doesn't have sync on HDMI). 3) Composite only connection to Slingbox - which works perfectly. 

For testing HD output, I temporarily hooked up component video cables direct to LG TV -- that works fine.

As I mentioned, this configuration has been flawless for 2+ years with both my previous TivoHD as well as my Premiere. Last night, it just stopped working through the HDMI. Absolutely nothing has changed - I just turned the TV on, and received 'NO SYNC'. The Tivo System Information screen shows 'Not Connected' for HDMI when viewing over Composite via the Slingbox.

I have enough experience with this to decide that the HDMI output just quit on the Premiere. Based upon my testing, as well as other posts in this thread indicating that it took multiple replacements from Tivo to get a refurbished Premiere with a working HDMI port -- I am almost certain that the HDMI port on my Premiere has died.

Also - the Slingbox doesn't output video via video connections -- it outputs via Ethernet.

Rick


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

RickNY said:


> I'll elaborate...
> 
> Tivo Connections:
> 
> ...


Okay, I was thinking the Slingbox was sending a wireless signal to a receiver in the bedroom that feeds the TV. Told you I didn't know anything about them.

Some, if not many, of my posts are intended not just for the person to whom I'm responding, but for future readers and searchers as well.

If that LG Blu-Ray is a separate unit from the LG TV, hook it up to the HDMI input of the LG TV. If it works, the HDMI input of the TV works. Use the same HDMI cable and move the non-TV end from the Blu-Ray to the TiVo. If it doesn't work, call TiVo and say, "My Premiere is only 7 months old and the HDMI output has quit working, I'm eager to hear how you're going to make this right."


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## DonaldBurns65144 (Jan 11, 2011)

Many early HDMI devices have had problems connecting to devices from other brands. HDMI also has had several revisions and still isn't "user" friendly at all times. Look for software updates for your TV and/or receivers. Try using a second HDMI input on your TV if there are more than one. Try the old Jerry Pournelle fix of using a contact cleaner of all the connectors. A dirty or bad connector on the cable, Tivo or TV might be the problem. His second rule was if in doubt it's the cable. You don't need one of the $$$ brands, but sometimes you do get a flaky cable. 

I had a major problem with my FIOS supplied DVR causing green screens on my TV. At 1st I thought it was my somewhat hateful Bose whole house sound system but as soon as I moved the DVR to 2nd TV the problem followed that unit. So sometimes plug-n-pray troubleshooting can fix the cause of your problems. If doesn't always turn out to be what you suspect.


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## RickNY (Sep 17, 2007)

Im on the phone with Tivo now.. Actual time Ive had the unit is 5 months, 20 days. They determined the HDMI port is bad, and said it will cost me $49 to get the unit replaced. That sucks. I dont really have a choice other than paying the fee since my entire setup relies on HDMI. Plus I am on the 2 year commitment, so it would cost me $360 to just dump the contract.

UPDATE: The representative was able to get the $49 fee waived for me, so I am happy about that. I'm just kind of surprised that an electrical component such as an HDMI port would go bad like that. I never had any issues like that with my TivoHD.


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## wbertram (Jun 14, 2002)

RickNY said:


> snip
> 
> UPDATE: The representative was able to get the $49 fee waived for me, so I am happy about that. * I'm just kind of surprised that an electrical component such as an HDMI port would go bad like that*. I never had any issues like that with my TivoHD.


General rules of thumb:

- Integrated circuits are generally highly reliable

- Solder connections are less reliable

- Mechanical components and connections can be highly unreliable. I.e., I would suspect the HDMI connector has failed.

- There a few exceptions to these general rules. I.e., the recent spate of electrolytic capacitor failures.


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## RickNY (Sep 17, 2007)

OK UPDATE #2: I received my replacement Premiere today via UPS.

Guess what? The HDMI port is messed up.

While this one gets further than the previous one, there is clearly an issue. With HDMI connected directly to 2 different TVs, using the brand new cable that came with the replacement box, HDMI output will display half of the screen on top, while displaying static on the bottom half of the screen every 5 seconds or so.. I tried a couple of other HDMI cables, to no avail.. And like I said, tried between two different TVs - same results. To make sure the TVs and cables I were using were good, I swapped in an LG BluRay player, which was outputting just fine on both TVs.

Called Tivo.. Charged me anothe $99 for an advanced replacement, and now replacement #2 should be here on Wednesday.

Rick


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

RickNY said:


> OK UPDATE #2: I received my replacement Premiere today via UPS.
> 
> Guess what? The HDMI port is messed up.
> 
> ...


For your amusement check out my thread on my refurbished Series 3 purchase: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=446663


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

wbertram said:


> ...the recent spate of electrolytic capacitor failures.


Where "recent" means over the past dozen years, at least since the days of the Pentium II BX chipset motherboards.


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## wbertram (Jun 14, 2002)

unitron said:


> Where "recent" means over the past dozen years, at least since the days of the Pentium II BX chipset motherboards.


Tempus Fugit


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

wbertram said:


> Tempus Fugit


And the manufacturers don't seem to do a thing to solve the problem.

But really, it's been going on too long to be called "recent", it's been a problem since before there were TiVos.


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## Improviz (Mar 3, 2009)

I have a slightly different issue with my brand new Premiere. All my devices run through my Onkyo Home Theater receiver, which then outputs via HDMI to my Samsung 52". My Tivo and BluRay player are connected via HDMI. On my old Tivo HD, when I would change menu screens, etc., there was no lag, just went from one screen to the next. Now on the Premiere, it usually goes to black for several seconds, before it comes back on with the new screen. Weirdly, the audio (which I'm also running over HDMI) doesn't seem to be affected. And weirdly, sometimes when I start playing a video, the video portion plays fine, but the audio takes 6-8 seconds to start playing (it is in sync when it does). Never had either of these issues with the Tivo HD. My wife is starting to give me a hard time for "upgrading".... help.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Set the Premiere for a single output resolution equal to the resolution of your Samsung TV. IE set it for 1080i fixed output. The delays you are seeing are the shifts in display resolution.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Although if your Onkyo is doing the scaling, your picture will degrade slighly since the Onkyo scaler will probably do a better job than what the TiVo is capable of.


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## not logged in (Oct 7, 2010)

mattack said:


> Try hooking up the RCA *AND* the HDMI cable (yes I know that's annoying), and when no picture is showing up, switch to the composite (RCA) inputs. Is the TV now saying that HDCP is not supported?
> 
> I have a TivoHD and that's what I'm seeing (I only recently got a TV that supports HDMI). I haven't tried turning off & on the TV multiple times.
> 
> ...


i recently started experiencing this same situation.

has anybody figured out a solution? thanks


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