# TiVo Completely Freezing - For 2 days now..



## djb2002 (May 1, 2006)

I have been having problems with the tivo not updating using the network card, so I made the following change I read on another thread....



> try the edit to: /tvlib/tcl/tv/Ident.itcl
> ------
> Look for this line
> 
> ...


Since making this change (which didn't fix my previous issue), TiVo has been 'locking up' every few hours.

The screen just freezes, the remote doesn't do anything (not even flash the light on the front of the unit).

I've replaced the Ident.itcl file with a replacement incase I had made a mistake with the above change, but it hasn't fixed it. (Would a change to this file cause it to lockup anyway ??)

I can't http or telnet to tivo although I can still ping it.

If I am watching TV at the time the image just freezes. If I am not watching TV, and switch the TV on, I just get a completely blank screen (which is what I get if Tivo was switched off).

Any help appreciated.

Thanks
Daniel


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## staffie2001uk (Apr 1, 2004)

Sorry I'm not an expert, but modding system files can prevent them from being read properly by TiVo, and that can cause freezes. You don't say how you performed the edits. I have had problems using joe via Telnet on my TiVo, causing corrupted files. I have taken to copying the file I want to change via FTP, editing and then copying back. However, if you use this method you have to be certain that you do not introduce DOS end of lines (LF/CR) into the file as the linux on the TiVo will not like it. Also, you need to make sure that you copy back in binary mode or the file will be unreadable. 

Anyhow, if the file has become corrupted and it is the cause of the freezes and you can't telnet in anymore, you will have to pull the drive, boot in a computer with a suitable linux boot disk (msflive etc) and do the edits that way to rescue your original ident.itcl. 

There are other possibilities for the freezing, which may be coincidental with the mod to ident.itcl: Failing hard drive or power supply. As you are playing with ident.itcl, have you just fitted a turbonet or cachecard? Incorrect alignment of either of these can cause freezes. Also old drivers, or in the case of the cachecard, incompatible memory in the slot. 

Hope this is of some help, though somebody smarter may be along soon with better advice.


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## djb2002 (May 1, 2006)

Thanks for your reply and suggestions - I am currently testing the hard drive in another Tivo, and it isn't freezing, so this rules out the drive itself and the system files.

Your comment about the turbonet card being mis-aligned maybe a possibility. When I removed the cover it was at a VERY slight angle.

I'm testing each part, but I'm thinking it may be the card alignment....

Thanks
Daniel


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## djb2002 (May 1, 2006)

Looks like the misaligned network card was the issue.

Since giving a push, TiVo has been up and running for 24 hours now without freezing  - Looks VERY promising 

Thanks again
Daniel


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## staffie2001uk (Apr 1, 2004)

Glad you're sorted


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## djb2002 (May 1, 2006)

Thanks - Still have the issue with it not updating over the network card, but at least it isn't freezing now 

Thanks
Daniel


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## a_tivo_noob (Jan 2, 2004)

hmmm - i wonder if this is my problem (sorry - wanted to post to mark the thread for my attention)... it's always been a bit of a tight fit... (the card!  )


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## staffie2001uk (Apr 1, 2004)

djb2002 said:


> Thanks - Still have the issue with it not updating over the network card, but at least it isn't freezing now
> 
> Thanks
> Daniel


The network update can be a few things:

Your ISP: as you are trying the transparent proxy fix you may have a difficult ISP

TiVo setup: it can be a bit fiddly to get everything set correctly at the same time. Often if you adjust your ip, the gateway will revert to the default, so you have to set everything, every time you run nic_install

Router setup: they all have their own foibles. My D-Link needs the TiVo to use a reserved ip address within the DHCP range. Some need a reserved ip outside the DHCP range of the router. TiVo does not use DHCP.

If you can get full contact within your network, then ISP or TiVo gateway are the most common problems.

Cheers,


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## KiNeL (Feb 6, 2006)

Wonder if anybody has experienced freezing caused by a Cachecard memory stick ?

I've replaced HD and PSU but still experiencing freezing but since pulling the memory so far (4 hours later) it's still working. Previously it would freeze at anything between 30 minutes or 3-4 hours.


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## KiNeL (Feb 6, 2006)

Update:

Tivo still running this morning so seems pretty conclusive that the RAM is/was the problem.

Anyone got an old stick laying around or can remind me of the spec to look for to replace it ?


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## KiNeL (Feb 6, 2006)

Updated update.

Having had no problems for a further 24 hours I put the RAM back in the Cachecard and now it's been running perfectly for a couple of days.

It's not as though this is the first time I've pulled the ram, when I was playing about with HD's and PSU's I pulled it to speed up the booting process so it's been in and out maybe 3 or 4 times before.

Weird but I'm a happy bunny.


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## KiNeL (Feb 6, 2006)

Spoke too soon again. Damn thing froze up yesterday and again this morning. May be imagination but I think it mostly happens on playback, should have kept some notes.

Running out of options now and it's looking like the MOBO but it's odd how random it is. I'd expect a failing component to be more consistent, it's not as though it's being subject to major temperature changes or voluntary power cycling.


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## a_tivo_noob (Jan 2, 2004)

it's hellish isn't it  our box can got anywhere between 3 hours and 3 weeks before it will freeze

we did have a 24hr timer on it at one point which reset it at 4am in the morning automatically, but there was still a chance it would freeze during the rest of the day, and i really want to fix the problem properly!

our's only started doing it when i installed the cachecard so it is definitely card / driver related - i've ensured the card is fitted securly and i've removed the RAM (only because i got fed up of it taking so long to load up after a reset - especially problematic if i was recording something!)

maybe we just have dodgy cachecards? unfortunately it is far too difficult for me to remove the card now (not telephone points near to the unit anymore)


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## KiNeL (Feb 6, 2006)

A right pain is what it is and frankly I'd far sooner it just quietly died completely then all this uncertainty.

I hadn't posted back because I'm away from home at present but subsequent to my last report I took the Turbonet from my other machine to try instead of the Cachecard and although it didn't freeze the damn thing refused to complete a daily call although a test call worked, what's that all about !

Unfortunately time was running short for me going away for work so I had to put everything back as was for 'er indoors hence and I don't really know if it would have frozen with the Turbonet or not however what I did do, or rather didn't, was to leave the Cachecard out completely and thus far it hasn't frozen at all so it is beginning to look like that is the problem.

I have actually had a stroke of luck because I happened upon a Cachecard +512 RAM on ebay in the US and bought it for a paltry $24 and am just waiting for the friend to whom I had it sent over there to post it on to me in France


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## a_tivo_noob (Jan 2, 2004)

ooh, would be interested to hear how you get on... to see whether its:
a) faulty cachecard
or
b) incompatibilities between certain 'manufactured phase' or cachecards

probably never know if it's "b" - i've also got a turbonet and this link ( http://forum.technicalpeak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12 ) on standby as an option!

The weird thing with our tivo, is it was sometimes crashing through the exact same recordings (ie. every week during "lost", it would crash / freeze) - i did post on this at the time - will try and dig it out.

All very weird...!


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## KiNeL (Feb 6, 2006)

Well it hasn't frozen since I ripped the Cachecard out so it would seem reasonably conclusive.

I'm still away from home but until I get the Cachecard sent over from the US I plan to 'borrow' a Terbonet card from a friends Tivo which he has asked me to upgrade for him and try that in mine but that won't be until New Year.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

I'm not surprised in this weather.

Oh come on! Ya gotta have obvious, cheesy jokes at Christmas


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## KiNeL (Feb 6, 2006)

Sitrep:

Well the Tivo was left with no network card at all from Dec 14th until last Thursday and didn't freeze once. Now fitted the borrowed Terbonet and so far still no freezing and about to put the Cachecard in donor Tivo to see if it causes that one to freezeat all.


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## KiNeL (Feb 6, 2006)

Back again and I've finally pinned the problem down - but not resolved it.

Now complete with a new MOBO, and therefore nothing original left in the whole box, it's still freezing *but* only when actually connected to my network which is via a hub which has 2 other Tivo's and a French TV decoder plugged into it, all working faultlessly.

If I leave the network cable unplugged - either at the Tivo or the hub - it works perfectly, plug it in and at some random time, anything between maybe a couple of hours or a few days, sure enough it will freeze. Even if I bypass the hub and have it directly plugged into my router with a separate cable snaking from the study to the lounge it will still freeze.

It's not related to the daily call as far as I can tell, I've manually initiated that too many times without any immediate problems so utterly stumped now, all I can do is plug it in every couple of days, do the daily call and then unplug it again, bizarre in the extreme.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

You've got more than one Tivo on the network? It could be a clash between MAC addresses (which are the same on all Tivos unless edited IIRC) or an IP lease timing out (despite Tivo being fixed only)?


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## KiNeL (Feb 6, 2006)

Thanks for the input but sorry you're mistaken, all network devices have, or should have, a unique IP address, as have my Tivo's. In any case I can't really understand how a MAC or even an IP address conflict could result in random freezing. The worst I could see would be a failure to make the daily call. Similarly with a lease timeout, which also isn't happening BTW.

The bottom line is that my 2 (sometimes 3) Tivo's have been co-existing perfectly in their current configuration for about 4 years until this particular one decided to start freezing.


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

KiNeL said:


> ... I can't really understand how a MAC or even an IP address conflict could result in random freezing.


A cachecard is handling both the network connection and database access, so a hang on one function could possibly cause a hang on the other.

You haven't said whether you've checked the MAC addresses, since ARP will translate IP addresses to MAC addresses for low-level transport, and I know the original TiVo network drivers allocated the same MAC address to all TiVo network cards.


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## KiNeL (Feb 6, 2006)

Yes, my MAC addressses are all unique.

All 3 machines are in the same range for the first 3 octets (00:0B:AD) but differ in the remainder and have not been edited, either now nor at any time in the past.

As a test of the network's robustness I've tried firing off 3 simultaneous daily calls all of which complete without mishap.

I come back once again though to my earlier comment that the Tivo's have been co-existing perfectly in their current configuration for about 4 years until this particular one decided to start freezing.


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

You could try removing the memory from the cachecard. That should disable the database cacheing, which is probably the most likely conflict of the TiVo software with the networking.

If nothing else, try re-seating both the memory and the cachecard.

Maybe clutching at straws, but worth a try.

As to why it's happening now, it may be a variations in voltage levels with an ageing CPU, or just wear and tear of electronic components. Who knows.


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## KiNeL (Feb 6, 2006)

I do appreciate the interest but with respect it might be useful if you read the thread.

The first thing I did was put a brand new PSU closely followed by a new HD.

I've also tried 2 different cachecards, with and without 2 different sticks of RAM, and even tried it with a Turbonet, all to no avail. The MOBO swap was a last act of desperation.


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

KiNeL said:


> The first thing I did was put a brand new PSU closely followed by a new HD.


If there are any electronic engineers reading this, maybe they can answer this. Do capacitors dry out when they are lying idle, or only when they are in use?

Only, if the replacement is a genuine PSU, they haven't made them for years. They were very cheap (I think that you could buy them in the States for a couple of dollars), and they were only manufactured in a few large batches, maybe up to 10 years or so ago. I believe that the normal reason they fail is because the capacitors dry out. According to Dave Healey at Tivoland, a lot of the surplus that was sold off was faulty, and only some resellers bothered to test them first.

However, I would also question whether your mains power is reliable at the moment, since any variations may exacerbate a problem with an unregulated PSU. I had issues with mains voltage levels several years ago causing my TiVo to have problems.

I'll shut up now, since if I had time to re-read every thread through each time, I would be unemployed and obviously bored.


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## KiNeL (Feb 6, 2006)

Sorry if I've upset you Ian, it was not my intent.

Actually, as it happens, I am an electronics engineer, or more precisely a communications engineer - of the old school - I started out in the days of valves and steam radio. I'm also a licenced Radio Amateur.

Nothing lasts for ever of course but stored in normal conditions electrolytic capacitors should not dry out or deteriorate. You are correct that the primary cause of failure in switched mode PSU's is capacitors and for the record whilst awaiting a new one (bought from Dave BTW) I did manage to scrounge up some capacitors to replace those in the original PSU, but to no avail, so I think the PSU can definitely be ruled out in this instance.

As an illustration of how random the freezing is shortly after posting on the 3rd I plugged the ethernet cable back in for a daily call and left it there and so far it hasn't frozen. It's been getting a good workout too as I've been off work sick for a few days and taken the opportunity to catch up on some old recordings, but it could go in the next minute - or next week !


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## KiNeL (Feb 6, 2006)

Well here's the thing:

If you had a set up with 2, sometimes 3, Tivos running on the same network for maybe 2 years when one suddenly one decided to play up by regularly freezing what is the very very very last thing you might suspect as the culprit ?

Once you've taken a moment to consider that I'll wager a months wages that not a single person will have said 'the IP address' but nevertheless changing it has cured the problem.

There is absolutely no doubt about it, before changing it once plugged into the local hub it would freeze in anything from a couple of hours to a couple of days, after changing it ran for over 2 weeks without fault but when I changed it back to what it had been, sure enough it froze the next day.

The original IP was 192.168.1.182 but is now 192.168.1.100 and apart from the other Tivo(s) which are 192.168.1.183 and 192.168.1.184 (when it's there) there is nothing on the network anywhere remotely near those addresses, nor has there ever been, and everything else is on dynamic addressing anyway.

How bizarre, I can't explain it, can anyone ?


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

Make sure that you're not allocating static addresses in the range reserved by your router for DHCP addresses. DHCP servers try to reallocate addresses to the same MAC addresses, so maybe one address might conflict more than others. Maybe somebody is trying to steal your wi-fi.


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## KiNeL (Feb 6, 2006)

You miss the point iankb, I changed nothing.

I had a system which worked faultlessly for 2 years but then one day decided all on it's own that it wasn't happy with IP address 192.168.1.183

Stealing my Wifi - what a howler!

You obviously can't have any knowledge of my location but if you did you'd realise what a totally ludicrous suggestion that is.

I live in rural SW France and at the very end of a 1km lane. My nearest neighbours are over 300m away and for someone to even sniff my Wifi they would have to be 3/4 of the way up my drive and in full view from the house. On top of that they would have to be mad, desperate, or both, to want to tap into my paltry 1mb connection lol


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## a_tivo_noob (Jan 2, 2004)

hmmmm - interesting conclusion to your woes! - thanks for the update - i will certainly try it!

can i ask how long its now been running without issue?


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## KiNeL (Feb 6, 2006)

As I said, something over 2 weeks prior to which I'd more or less given up finding a solution and had taken to plugging it in for a daily call every 2 or 3 days then unplugging it again.

Plugged in I think the longest it lasted before freezing was maybe 3 days.

Give it a try, nowt to lose !


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## KiNeL (Feb 6, 2006)

Still up, at least until last night's storm power cut !


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