# Old Roamio OTA vs new Edge OTA



## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

I have been using a 6-tuner Roamio Plus for 7 years, and I love it, but I am getting ready to cut the cord and don't want to give up the functionality of my TiVo. TiVo has a great offer right now on a new Edge OTA with lifetime service, but I've read that the old Roamio OTAs are better devices. The one thing I really dislike about the Edge is that it only has two tuners. I will still want to record sporting events from a streaming service for ease of playback, so I don't think two tuners would cut it, especially since most of the programming I watch is recorded from broadcast TV.

I would appreciate the community's thoughts on Roamio vs Edge OTA. Pros and cons, personal experiences, etc.

As an aside, I know that a cable card is necessary in a TiVo for cable in order to schedule recordings, but is it necessary to be able to schedule shows that are streaming?

Thanks,
Dawn


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## JackMcC (Aug 11, 2019)

They did make 4 channel OTA edge units for $75-$100 more, but it was a limited run. You can only get them used now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

JackMcC said:


> They did make 4 channel OTA edge units for $75-$100 more, but it was a limited run. You can only get them used now.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. Any idea how they compared to the Roamio 4-tuner?

Dawn


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

Get a used Roamio OTA with Lifetime. 4 tuners. A couple of them available for sale here: Buyer/Seller Area


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## JackMcC (Aug 11, 2019)

dmrshop said:


> Thanks. Any idea how they compared to the Roamio 4-tuner?
> 
> Dawn


They run the new software and are faster but you have to deal with pre-roll ads. I haven’t been fortunate enough to play around with one myself.

Personally, I don’t want a 2-ch version myself and am either waiting for TIVO to offer an atsc 3.0 compliant 4k receiver or the makers of the HD Homerun 4k quad receiver unit to offer lifetime service.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

JackMcC said:


> They run the new software and are faster but you have to deal with pre-roll ads. I haven’t been fortunate enough to play around with one myself.
> 
> Personally, I don’t want a 2-ch version myself and am either waiting for TIVO to offer an atsc 3.0 compliant 4k receiver or the makers of the HD Homerun 4k quad receiver unit to offer lifetime service.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I appreciate your input.

Dawn


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

dmrshop said:


> I will still want to record sporting events from a streaming service for ease of playback,


Not possible with Tivo.


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## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

ThAbtO said:


> Not possible with Tivo.


Really? Darn. That is extremely disappointing. I may have to rethink my strategy. The only reason I have cable now is for hockey, and I was counting on being able to stream the games next year and record them. Thanks for letting me know!

Dawn


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

It's ridiculous that Tivo is only selling a 2 tuner OTA Edge. Most people can get a lot more channels than they used to OTA and need at least a 4 tuner OTA Edge. I'd like another OTA Tivo but not at all interested in only 2 tuners.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

Then get a used/refurbed lifetimed Roamio from weaknees or from Ebay...they're all over the place...


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

dishrich said:


> Then get a used/refurbed lifetimed Roamio from weaknees or from Ebay...they're all over the place...


I don't want a used DVR.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Resist said:


> I don't want a used DVR.


Despite it being a far superior product?, there's nothing special about a new Edge, it's effectively a downgrade to a 4-tuner Roamio.


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## jdh2005 (Apr 1, 2006)

I bought an OTA Edge thinking it would be great for streaming and getting local TV. Boy was I *WRONG* - terrible tuner and doesn't have all of the apps I needed (I think it didn't have HBO Max).

I had previously picked up a Stream 4k and now use my Roamio for OTA and the Stream 4k for streaming. It's a good combo but of course no recording on Stream and it's likely no better than other streaming devices.


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## Elliot2 (Dec 15, 2016)

dmrshop said:


> I have been using a 6-tuner Roamio Plus for 7 years, and I love it, but I am getting ready to cut the cord and don't want to give up the functionality of my TiVo. TiVo has a great offer right now on a new Edge OTA with lifetime service, but I've read that the old Roamio OTAs are better devices. The one thing I really dislike about the Edge is that it only has two tuners. I will still want to record sporting events from a streaming service for ease of playback, so I don't think two tuners would cut it, especially since most of the programming I watch is recorded from broadcast TV.
> 
> I would appreciate the community's thoughts on Roamio vs Edge OTA. Pros and cons, personal experiences, etc.
> 
> ...


Get a Romeo. I have two and they're great. Much better than the edge


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## ppartekim (Jan 18, 2007)

dianebrat said:


> Despite it being a far superior product?, there's nothing special about a new Edge, it's effectively a downgrade to a 4-tuner Roamio.


Yep, I have not found anything yet that beats my OTA Roamio w/Lifetime and 3TB internal drive. Edge only uses 2.5" drives which top out at 500G-1TB and 2 channels.. The only think close was a combo of PLEX with the HomeConnect 4ch Tuner (saving the shows to my NAS). Trouble is the Plex DVR software was not on par with the Tivo software. I still use that combo to steam my OTA service to my devices when away from home which my Tivo will not do. So until I will be sticking with my Tivo until it dies or Tivo goes away.


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## MRL46 (Apr 4, 2020)

I cut the cord 25 years ago. I bought a ReplayTV to record OTA. When Replay died, I bought two OTA 4-channel Roamios. They work great. They're not 4K, but the 1090i picture looks great. And remember, the OTA is just that. Local TV. When TiVo started the pre-roll, it screwed up each program I wanted to watch. I complained and they eliminated the pre-roll for me. After 7 years the hard drive in one unit is noisy. I've read it's easy to replace, so it's on my to do list. I didn't know they stopped making my unit. If you can find a used one, you won't regret it.


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## ROlsonAZ (Mar 14, 2004)

JackMcC said:


> They run the new software and are faster but you have to deal with pre-roll ads.


A few years ago when they started running the pre-roll ads I called TiVo customer service and asked them to remove that feature from my two Bolts and one Roamio because it was irritating. It took a couple of days for them to make the change but they did and the pre-rolls have never come back.


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## rhj (Nov 7, 2017)

JackMcC said:


> Personally, I don’t want a 2-ch version myself and am either waiting for TIVO to offer an atsc 3.0 compliant 4k receiver or the makers of the HD Homerun 4k quad receiver unit to offer lifetime service.


I'm in the same boat. I have an OTA Tivo Roamio w/ lifetime and don't know where to go from here. Right now it's working great and I'm happy, but my next step isn't an Edge for the same reason....too few tuners. I hope they get it together before I need a new device.


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## JackMcC (Aug 11, 2019)

ROlsonAZ said:


> A few years ago when they started running the pre-roll ads I called TiVo customer service and asked them to remove that feature from my two Bolts and one Roamio because it was irritating. It took a couple of days for them to make the change but they did and the pre-rolls have never come back.


They won’t do that for the Edge from what I read.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JackMcC (Aug 11, 2019)

Double post…


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## Jcflyer (Jun 21, 2011)

dmrshop said:


> I have been using a 6-tuner Roamio Plus for 7 years, and I love it, but I am getting ready to cut the cord and don't want to give up the functionality of my TiVo. TiVo has a great offer right now on a new Edge OTA with lifetime service, but I've read that the old Roamio OTAs are better devices. The one thing I really dislike about the Edge is that it only has two tuners. I will still want to record sporting events from a streaming service for ease of playback, so I don't think two tuners would cut it, especially since most of the programming I watch is recorded from broadcast TV.
> 
> I would appreciate the community's thoughts on Roamio vs Edge OTA. Pros and cons, personal experiences, etc.
> 
> ...





dmrshop said:


> I have been using a 6-tuner Roamio Plus for 7 years, and I love it, but I am getting ready to cut the cord and don't want to give up the functionality of my TiVo. TiVo has a great offer right now on a new Edge OTA with lifetime service, but I've read that the old Roamio OTAs are better devices. The one thing I really dislike about the Edge is that it only has two tuners. I will still want to record sporting events from a streaming service for ease of playback, so I don't think two tuners would cut it, especially since most of the programming I watch is recorded from broadcast TV.
> 
> I would appreciate the community's thoughts on Roamio vs Edge OTA. Pros and cons, personal experiences, etc.
> 
> ...


Dawn I have had 7 Tivo boxes over the past 20 years. My Romao plus tuners died 3 years ago so I bought the new OTA edge and cut the cord. I haven't missed cable TV or the 6 tuners. I do enjoy the HDR and 4K capability of the Edge Tivo, as that works well with my current TV. What I did not expect was the functionality of the Edge with the HDMI ARC (Audio Return Chanel) function of my TV and Audio Receiver. I connect Tivo to the TV with an HDMI input on my TV then I connect a Receiver input to the TV ARC HDMI. Now when I press the Tivo button on the Tivo remote the Receiver and TV turn on. When I am done watching TV I press the TV power button on the Tivo. The TV, Receiver turn off and Tivo goes into standby. This is a function of my TV but it is 5 years old so most TV's should have the capability. This is much better, for me than having 6 channels and 3 remotes. I use my edge mostly for streaming, and my last remaining Tivo XL as a 4 channel recorder and stream from that to my Edge over my home network. If you do that you would have 8 channels.


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## Britflix (May 11, 2018)

dmrshop said:


> I have been using a 6-tuner Roamio Plus for 7 years, and I love it, but I am getting ready to cut the cord and don't want to give up the functionality of my TiVo. TiVo has a great offer right now on a new Edge OTA with lifetime service, but I've read that the old Roamio OTAs are better devices. The one thing I really dislike about the Edge is that it only has two tuners. I will still want to record sporting events from a streaming service for ease of playback, so I don't think two tuners would cut it, especially since most of the programming I watch is recorded from broadcast TV.
> 
> I would appreciate the community's thoughts on Roamio vs Edge OTA. Pros and cons, personal experiences, etc.
> 
> ...


I’m on a Roamio OTA with multi-tuner as well & because the Edge only has 2, I’m not upgrading. There is a ChannelMaster Edge box with 6 tuners, but when you add that cost & the outrageous charge from switching a lifetime plan over to a new box, I’m probably gonna ditch TiVo altogether, when mine does eventually die.


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## northbound.bluevolvo (7 mo ago)

ROlsonAZ said:


> A few years ago when they started running the pre-roll ads I called TiVo customer service and asked them to remove that feature from my two Bolts and one Roamio because it was irritating. It took a couple of days for them to make the change but they did and the pre-rolls have never come back.


When the pre-roll ads started, they were crashing our Bolt. So we called and they turned off the pre-roll ads. No more crashes.


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## SoCalSue (May 3, 2019)

I think it's crazy the OTA Edge only has two tuners. If you're a cord cutter, you need at least 4 tuners. I have a Roamio OTA with 4 and if it breaks I will have to find a non TiVO solution as 2 tuners is ridiculously insufficient. Don't know who is making product decisions over there but they are giving up a huge market.


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## tngiloy (Aug 24, 2017)

Resist said:


> I don't want a used DVR.


These people sell refurbished and new TiVo boxes which have been upgraded with additional tuners and recording space. They warrantee their products and have them at reasonable prices.
TiVo Superstore | Upgraded TiVo DVRs, Remotes, Parts, Repairs (weaknees.com) 

If you wish to record streamed content you should look into a dedicated streaming box (Roku, Shield, etc.) and subscribe to a 'live TV' app that has recording capability. I use YouTubeTV and am happy with its recording set-up, but there are others. They aren't free.


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## ses (Jan 8, 2007)

If I can state the obvious - one can purchase a 4 tuner OTA bolt from WeakKnees with lifetime service for a quite reasonable price. Bolt being newer than Roamio and with a pretty good tuner. You can also get a combo Cable/OTA 4 tuner Bolt (only one connection at a time) also quite reasonably. I would thing being one generation back would be better than 2 generations back.


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## BrokerDon (Sep 9, 2006)

Resist said:


> It's ridiculous that Tivo is only selling a 2 tuner OTA Edge. Most people can get a lot more channels than they used to OTA and need at least a 4 tuner OTA Edge. I'd like another OTA Tivo but not at all interested in only 2 tuners.


I haven't needed more than the 2 OTA tuners on our TiVo Edge OTA, maybe because we upgraded from a TiVo Premiere XL. If I had to record > 2 shows that were recording simultaneously I was always able to find one of the shows being re-run at an later time (usually in the middle of the night) or stream.

But other TiVo users do need to record ? 2 shows concurrently so 2 tuner Edge isn't for everybody... but we love ours.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

FWIW, if it's important to you, the OTA Edge supports 4k, Dolby Vision and HDR for the built-in Netflix and Amazon apps.

The Edge also streams to Android and iOS devices. You need a separate TiVo Stream device for the Roamio.

I don't own a Roamio, so can't comment on performance differences. I assume the Edge has a faster CPU and more memory, but don't know that for a fact.

I agree 4-tuners is a "must have". Can't believe they don't still ship those.

Late to this thread, so sorry if I'm repeating what was already said.


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## Albert (Sep 27, 2002)

I'll chime in too. I "laugh" at their Edge offers. No way I'm downgrading my 3TB Roamio with TE3 to a 2-tuner Edge that doesn't even support ATSC 3.0.

Now if they came out with an updated OTA Roamio (i.e. a "Roamio OTA 4K") that doesn't show pre-roll ads and has a 3.5" easily replaceable HD, ATSC 3.0 tuning, and at least 4 tuners then I would be all ears.... otherwise I will probably never buy another TiVo device when my beloved Roamio quits.

One of my fears is that TiVo will do something intentional to "destroy" my old Roamio... but that would never happen, right?


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## sdawson (Aug 18, 2016)

Been a long time since posting here, but this is a topic of interest.

The OTA Roamio with 4 tuners is still the apex for me. I actually have three of them, each with lifetime service, in three different rooms in the houe. All being fed from the rooftop antenna. Only one has the pre-roll (it also has the newer software) and that software is slow on the OTA Roamio hardware. I expect the software workss better on an Edge or a Bolt with a faster chip. Still, it is quite usable, just a bit slow to react to commands.

For each of the boxes I have replaced the internal drives with 3TB drives purchased from Amazon. I also have to replace the fans _frequently_ (about yearly I'd say) on each of the three boxes. When they start getting noisy, I swap them out. I have tried a bunch of fans, but the Weaknees ones, while more expensive, do last longer. Despite the fans wearing out, the boxes with lifetime are still great.

Being able to tune 4 channels is a huge boon, especially if one has default setting to record 1 minute after the show ends as that is frequently needed to capture the final minut. That increaes the number of tuners needed.

The ability to stream from the other Tivos is great. That is, my 'kitchen' tivo streams shows from my 'bedroom' tivo just fine over our home wifi. So in all that is 9 TB of data I can record and stream anywhere.

With all that said, if I do get another TIVO (and I have been tempted) I would get the OTA Edge, even with the 2 tuner limitation. I would immediately get one of the Weakness external hard drive kits (The 6 or even 10 TB option) and be happy with just the two tuners, given that I have other tuners in the house already.

If TIVO does come out with a new OTA device with 4 tuners, I'd jump on that. Tivo is a niche hardware, appealing to just a small number of folks. I am glad they are still here and would support them by buying another device. While the rest of the world seems to be moving to 'Cloud DVR' which is anything _but_ a real DVR, and just streaming everything, I am very happy to have my actual DVR recording sitting on the hard disk in my home.

If the day comes where TIVO ends (and all things do end) I hope they provide some means for those of us who have TIVOs to still be able to play what we have recorded, even without phoning in to the mother ship. Who knows.

I can not compare the tuner quality of the Roamio to Edge myself. Pehaps others can>


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## Mike704 (Feb 4, 2011)

I have a 4 tuner Roamio and an Edge that a friend is letting me use. I much prefer the Roameo. Both are OTA with lifetime guide service. The Edge is a little faster but not much. Still too slow to use the streaming function so I don’t. 4 tuners are better than 2.

i‘ve had to repair the Roamio twice in the many years I’ve had it. First I replaced the noisy cooling fan and second I had to reformat the hard drive after it was glitched by a brownout. Both times an easy job.

As for the pre-roll ads, they don’t bother me. One quick Press of the fast forward button and it skips right out of the ad and the program starts, easy! I LOVE TIVO!!


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## roy999 (Apr 8, 2010)

dmrshop said:


> I have been using a 6-tuner Roamio Plus for 7 years, and I love it, but I am getting ready to cut the cord and don't want to give up the functionality of my TiVo. TiVo has a great offer right now on a new Edge OTA with lifetime service, but I've read that the old Roamio OTAs are better devices. The one thing I really dislike about the Edge is that it only has two tuners. I will still want to record sporting events from a streaming service for ease of playback, so I don't think two tuners would cut it, especially since most of the programming I watch is recorded from broadcast TV.
> 
> I would appreciate the community's thoughts on Roamio vs Edge OTA. Pros and cons, personal experiences, etc.
> 
> ...


On the web sit the Edge for cable is said to have 6 tuners






TiVo EDGE for Cable | Replace your Cable Box DVR with TiVo


One device for all your entertainment. Kiss your cable box good bye. Apps. Live TV. DVR. One seamless way to find, watch and enjoy it all. Click to learn more.



www.tivo.com


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## Britflix (May 11, 2018)

roy999 said:


> On the web sit the Edge for cable is said to have 6 tuners
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I could be wrong, but with the Roamio for cable, you could still use it as an OTA, but I was told by customer service when I enquired, they said it wouldn’t work on the Edge. I’m not gonna buy one & try it, as as don’t trust them to refund the lifetime switch price, only to find out it doesn’t work & then have to switch back. I’m pretty sure I’ll be out of pocket with this test.


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## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

roy999 said:


> On the web sit the Edge for cable is said to have 6 tuners
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My understanding is that the Edge is either cable or OTA (not both), while the Bolt can be used for both.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Resist said:


> I don't want a used DVR.


Your loss, the Roamio is superior to any new Edge you can buy. I've had two of the used ones and they've been great.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

rhj said:


> I'm in the same boat. I have an OTA Tivo Roamio w/ lifetime and don't know where to go from here. Right now it's working great and I'm happy, but my next step isn't an Edge for the same reason....too few tuners. I hope they get it together before I need a new device.


The Edge is the last DVR they'll ever make, so stick with the Roamio until it dies. Then buy another Roamio if a new hard drive or power supply won't fix your old one.


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## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

It definitely sounds like the old Roamio OTA is superior. Does anyone think that TiVo will ever come out with a new four or six tuner OTA? I know things don't look promising for TiVo in general, but the alternative DVR products pale in comparison to TiVo based upon my limited research.


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

JackMcC said:


> They won’t do that for the Edge from what I read.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


that’s incorrect. at least that was the case two years ago when I bought my Edge OTA. first thing I did after setting it up was contact TiVo and asked them to remove the preroll ads and I’ve not had them since.


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## glfiske (Sep 27, 2015)

dmrshop said:


> I have been using a 6-tuner Roamio Plus for 7 years, and I love it, but I am getting ready to cut the cord and don't want to give up the functionality of my TiVo. TiVo has a great offer right now on a new Edge OTA with lifetime service, but I've read that the old Roamio OTAs are better devices. The one thing I really dislike about the Edge is that it only has two tuners. I will still want to record sporting events from a streaming service for ease of playback, so I don't think two tuners would cut it, especially since most of the programming I watch is recorded from broadcast TV.
> 
> I would appreciate the community's thoughts on Roamio vs Edge OTA. Pros and cons, personal experiences, etc.
> 
> ...


I have already cut the cord and like you I had a Cable Tivo's Edge and Roamio. I bought the Edge OTA and am very disappointed in it Only 2 tuners makes it just about useless. Because of that limitation, I never use it and my house hold no longer uses Tivo for anything. Note: I have had Tivo's since the first model came out many years ago. We still miss the Tivo interface but Tivo has in my opinion abandoned the DVR for their Streaming Dongle that really has nothing over the Fire TV or Google Devices. We use mostly Google TV now.


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## SleepyD (Mar 6, 2021)

JackMcC said:


> They run the new software and are faster but you have to deal with pre-roll ads. I haven’t been fortunate enough to play around with one myself.
> 
> Personally, I don’t want a 2-ch version myself and am either waiting for TIVO to offer an atsc 3.0 compliant 4k receiver or the makers of the HD Homerun 4k quad receiver unit to offer lifetime service.
> 
> ...


You should check out Channels DVR, getchannels.com, with a HDHomerun tuner. It’s a great system.


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## fixxit (Dec 19, 2006)

slowbiscuit said:


> Your loss, the Roamio is superior to any new Edge you can buy. I've had two of the used ones and they've been great.


I’ll second that. When my parents’ Bolt Vox died in 2020, I suggested they buy a used one with lifetime subscription, which they did. They were so happy with the savings over a new device, they gave me the old one to see if I could fix it. As expected, the HDD was the only problem, so I installed a 4TB Seagate Barracuda (model ST4000LM024) and it’s been running like a charm ever since. With that much capacity, it’s never been more than 50% full, no matter how much I recorded and don’t watch for weeks. 

One of the nice things about the 2.5” drive units is how easy it is to replace the disk. No more gutting the DVR, installing the OS manually, etc. Just pop off the door on the bottom and a few screws later, you’re done. 

I’d reconsider the aversion to used TiVos. Other than the fan and hard drive there are no moving parts, so they generally work or they don’t.

-Jason, TiVo owner since the long-retired (but still on his account) S1, along with multiple S2s, HDs, Premieres, and Bolts.


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## Britflix (May 11, 2018)

A TiVo without a DVR, is like having an empty propane tank for your BBQ.


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## skoozz (Mar 31, 2004)

We had a 4-tuner Roamio-loved it. Then the Bolt came out and we gifted our Roamio to relatives and got the brand new 4-tuner Bolt. Big mistake! Still asking those relatives to swap out with us 😳. TiVo was best in the beginning. 2 tuners now?? 🤦🏻‍♀️


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## mgibpb (Feb 20, 2007)

I have a Romeo OTA with lifetime service. But my OTA reception has deteriorated lately. I am now on Xfinity streaming but the DVR function sucks. How about if we swap our unit and. The only cost would be the shipping.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

Mike704 said:


> The Edge is a little faster but not much. Still too slow to use the streaming function so I don’t.


Do you mean Edge streaming to iOS or Android? If so, not my experience. I use iPads as clients in my kitchen on a daily basis and on our exercise bike. No issues at all using best quality on my home's wifi.

No problems OOH either, with quality auto-selected based on my current iPhone connectivity.


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## JackMcC (Aug 11, 2019)

SleepyD said:


> You should check out Channels DVR, getchannels.com, with a HDHomerun tuner. It’s a great system.


Unfortunately they don’t offer the quad 4k unit with the atsc 3.0 tuners. Also Silicondust, the manufacturer, doesn’t offer lifetime service for those units (yet).

I’m looking for atsc 3.0 tuners now that the 4k broadcast is coming to my area in the fall of this year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## halkilmer (Jun 12, 2021)

dmrshop said:


> I would appreciate the community's thoughts on Roamio vs Edge OTA. Pros and cons, personal experiences, etc.
> 
> As an aside, I know that a cable card is necessary in a TiVo for cable in order to schedule recordings, but is it necessary to be able to schedule shows that are streaming?


I'm lucky enough to have a 4 tuner OTA Tivo Edge. I'd highly recommend it, and it's baffling that it's been discontinued. (I've also had a Bolt and Roamio in the past.)

Given that you can't get a 4 tuner OTA Edge, my verdict is that having the 4 tuners on a used Roamio/Bolt trumps the speed/power advantage and streaming capabilities of 2 tuner Edge. As a streaming device, the Edge obviously outperforms the Bolt. The Roamio is essentially unusable for streaming apps. However, Edge streaming is still inferior to a Roku Ultra, Fire TV Cube, Apple TV 4K, etc. I personally use my Edge paired with a Roku Ultra. There'd not be much practical difference between Edge + Roku vs Roamio/Bolt + Roku.

2 tuner Tivos can't work with Tivo Minis or to watch recordings on a tablet/phone, the so WiFi speed of the Edge becomes moot for that purpose. Roamio's can't serve content to a phone/tablet without an older "Tivo Stream." Bolt and Edge have this capability built-in. If I were you, I'd find a used 4 tuner Bolt.

As for scheduling "recordings" from streaming apps... it's doesn't work that way. They're either available or not available "on demand" from the streaming app. There is no "recording."


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

dianebrat said:


> Despite it being a far superior product?, there's nothing special about a new Edge, it's effectively a downgrade to a 4-tuner Roamio.


Oh I'm not going to get an Edge because the OTA version it will never have 4 tuners. But I prefer my electronics to be new, so buying any Tivo used is something I'm not interested in at all, even remanufactured boxes. 

My reasoning is simple, electronic parts fail with age and heat...like capacitors. Had that happen to me with my old OLED Tivo, but luckily I was able to find the capacitor locally and replace it myself.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

Britflix said:


> A TiVo without a DVR, is like having an empty propane tank for your BBQ.


I think you mean TV, not Tivo. Because Tivo is a DVR.


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## mikey1273 (Nov 6, 2017)

I still have my romaio Ota and tivo mini
Not used anymore. when I changed to antenna from Comcast I always had issues with the guide data being wrong. The broadcasters changing sub channels and tivo taking 2 months to resolve a line up change request. 
Then the new preroll adds started to crash my box. 
I got an HDHOMERUN flex4k and am now using plex bur also tested channels dvr. I think channels is a bit more polished but plex worked well enough for me on my windows computer and has for years to do things the tivo romiao couldn't do and I had a lifetime plex pass already. 
The commercial skip works as good as tivo but if you set it to remove them automatically it sometimes cuts too much if the show has weather alert banners or doesn't work at all. 
I'm using firestick 4KMax at both tvs so I have easy access to the plex media and other streaming services. 
It can't record streaming services though not sure how you can do that especially sports.


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## SleepyD (Mar 6, 2021)

JackMcC said:


> Unfortunately they don’t offer the quad 4k unit with the atsc 3.0 tuners. Also Silicondust, the manufacturer, doesn’t offer lifetime service for those units (yet).
> 
> I’m looking for atsc 3.0 tuners now that the 4k broadcast is coming to my area in the fall of this year.
> 
> ...


Are you talking about DVR service from Silicondust having a lifetime option? The Channels DVR is a separate service. They don’t offer a lifetime option but it’s a great service and if you want it to stay great they need to have a revenue stream. I think that’s partly the problem with TiVos. The Channels DVR has automatic commercial skip that works really well. They can record from streaming TV services. Combine it with PlayOn and you can record streaming services. You should really check it out.


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

For anyone used to TiVo's interface, the Edge's UI is very hard to get used to. Makes it kind of painful to use.

PS: Have cable units, Edge, Bolt and Roamio, TiVo user since 2001. 
PPS: What happened to the old TiVo Community interface and when? My account seemed to be gone....


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## webbiedo (Oct 27, 2015)

Resist said:


> I don't want a used DVR.


I bought a used Roamio Pro with lifetime on Ebay more than 6 years ago. Quality often goes downhill as companies try tho increase margins by reducing quality of components. Remember when MANY tech mfrs. bought billions of capacitors that were knock offs of the original? The knockoff recipe was missing an ingredient and power supplies failed around the world. Samsung, Dell etc eventually had massive recalls. Reduced Chinese production is still affecting manufacturing and design.


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## northbanker (Feb 27, 2012)

dmrshop said:


> I have been using a 6-tuner Roamio Plus for 7 years, and I love it, but I am getting ready to cut the cord and don't want to give up the functionality of my TiVo. TiVo has a great offer right now on a new Edge OTA with lifetime service, but I've read that the old Roamio OTAs are better devices. The one thing I really dislike about the Edge is that it only has two tuners. I will still want to record sporting events from a streaming service for ease of playback, so I don't think two tuners would cut it, especially since most of the programming I watch is recorded from broadcast TV.
> 
> I would appreciate the community's thoughts on Roamio vs Edge OTA. Pros and cons, personal experiences, etc.
> 
> ...


I've always assumed that a Tivo could never record a digital stream. It's like apples and oranges. But if you or anyone can find that out definitively, I'd be all ears!

_Edit: I see now that there were a lot of replies to your initial post which I didn't see before replying, but now I see a couple of comments that support my understanding that Tivo's just don't record digital streams. Period._

I'm not really anywhere close to cutting the cord yet, but one reason is that I still believe that the Tivo/DVR experience is so superior to the streaming experience that I don't want to give up that awesomeness and go backwards in terms of functionality, reliability, ease of use, etc.


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## northbanker (Feb 27, 2012)

Also, since several people have mentioned replacing hard drives being relatively easy, it makes me wonder about doing that for my 1TB Roamio Pro. Does anyone want to elaborate on how easy that would be for that model Tivo? I'm quite technical, being an IT consultant. One thing I'm guessing is that there would be no easy way of transferring your saved recordings to the larger HD, right?

p.s. If there's another/better thread for this (instead of this one) feel free to direct me there.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

northbanker said:


> Also, since several people have mentioned replacing hard drives being relatively easy, it makes me wonder about doing that for my 1TB Roamio Pro. Does anyone want to elaborate on how easy that would be for that model Tivo? I'm quite technical, being an IT consultant. One thing I'm guessing is that there would be no easy way of transferring your saved recordings to the larger HD, right?
> 
> p.s. If there's another/better thread for this (instead of this one) feel free to direct me there.


The easiest and simplest way is to insert a new blank hard drive (recommended drives include the Western Digital Red Plus or the WD Purple, up to 3TB) and the Roamio will auto-format it. It will be factory reset. You will lose all of your recordings and your cableCARD settings will have to be restored again by your cable company.

The more difficult option is to copy your existing drive to the new drive on your PC with MFS Tools 3.2, which can copy all of your shows, cableCARD settings, 1-Passes and channels. BUT of course, it must be a good drive in order to work.

EDIT: Here is a YT Video
EDIT2: A Better YT Video


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## himey (Nov 29, 2016)

JackMcC said:


> Unfortunately they don’t offer the quad 4k unit with the atsc 3.0 tuners. Also Silicondust, the manufacturer, doesn’t offer lifetime service for those units (yet).
> 
> I’m looking for atsc 3.0 tuners now that the 4k broadcast is coming to my area in the fall of this year.
> 
> ...


You might want to do some research if you actually think you will be getting 4k content over atsc 3.0, anytime soon. There is nearly zero content OTA in 4k, in any US city. Also, none is on the horizon. There isn't any motivation for the stations to upgrade. Until that happens, 1080 will be the maximum OTA.


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## northbanker (Feb 27, 2012)

pl1 said:


> The easiest and simplest way is to insert a new blank hard drive (recommended drives include the Western Digital Red Plus or the WD Purple, up to 3TB) and the Roamio will auto-format it. It will be factory reset. You will lose all of your recordings and your cableCARD settings will have to be restored again by your cable company.
> 
> The more difficult option is to copy your existing drive to the new drive on your PC with MFS Tools 3.2, which can copy all of your shows, cableCARD settings, 1-Passes and channels. BUT of course, it must be a good drive in order to work.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that tip. My cable provider (Optimum) may have stopped supporting cable cards. I think the last time I spoke with them they said "oh we don't know anything about those any more" so I got the impression that I'll just have to pray the "mcard" cable card keeps working as is, or else I may be a bit screwed.

So, your MFS Tools idea of copying the HD to a new drive, might be the way to go. I'll watch the video and/or keep a link to it for when I _might_ get serious about doing this.

Thanks again.


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## JackMcC (Aug 11, 2019)

himey said:


> You might want to do some research if you actually think you will be getting 4k content over atsc 3.0, anytime soon. There is nearly zero content OTA in 4k, in any US city. Also, none is on the horizon. There isn't any motivation for the stations to upgrade. Until that happens, 1080 will be the maximum OTA.


I have already. They’re already in my state.









Deployments - ATSC : NextGen TV


South Korea paved the road to ATSC 3.0, adopting its Ultra High_Definition (UHD) TV standard in 2016 and launching 4K ATSC 3.0 broadcasts in May 2017 that now reach more than 70% of the South Korean population. Jamaica has launched ATSC 3.0 services. India is exploring ATSC 3.0 for...




www.atsc.org






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## himey (Nov 29, 2016)

JackMcC said:


> I have already. They’re already in my state.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Haha. Good luck with that.


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## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

Britflix said:


> I’m on a Roamio OTA with multi-tuner as well & because the Edge only has 2, I’m not upgrading. There is a ChannelMaster Edge box with 6 tuners, but when you add that cost & the outrageous charge from switching a lifetime plan over to a new box, I’m probably gonna ditch TiVo altogether, when mine does eventually die.


The more I think about it and the more I study my viewing habits, the more I think I may do the same. There really isn't anything on television that I would lose sleep over if I couldn't watch it. If I can get the local channels to watch when I am home (which isn't frequently), and I can get the hockey games through a streaming service, I think I could live without my TiVo. I'm sure that I would miss it initially, but the ongoing cost of cable is ridiculous. I will give it some more time and see what happens. If my cable card keeps working, that is.


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## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

glfiske said:


> I have already cut the cord and like you I had a Cable Tivo's Edge and Roamio. I bought the Edge OTA and am very disappointed in it Only 2 tuners makes it just about useless. Because of that limitation, I never use it and my house hold no longer uses Tivo for anything. Note: I have had Tivo's since the first model came out many years ago. We still miss the Tivo interface but Tivo has in my opinion abandoned the DVR for their Streaming Dongle that really has nothing over the Fire TV or Google Devices. We use mostly Google TV now.


This may be the way that I will go once my Roamio stops working or I actually do cut the cord.


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## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

mgibpb said:


> I have a Romeo OTA with lifetime service. But my OTA reception has deteriorated lately. I am now on Xfinity streaming but the DVR function sucks. How about if we swap our unit and. The only cost would be the shipping.


That might work, except I'm not quite ready to cut the cord. I'm waiting for Bally Sports to come out with their streaming service and for confirmation that my teams will be part of the service. It's all about hockey for me. 😄


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## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

halkilmer said:


> I'm lucky enough to have a 4 tuner OTA Tivo Edge. I'd highly recommend it, and it's baffling that it's been discontinued. (I've also had a Bolt and Roamio in the past.)
> 
> Given that you can't get a 4 tuner OTA Edge, my verdict is that having the 4 tuners on a used Roamio/Bolt trumps the speed/power advantage and streaming capabilities of 2 tuner Edge. As a streaming device, the Edge obviously outperforms the Bolt. The Roamio is essentially unusable for streaming apps. However, Edge streaming is still inferior to a Roku Ultra, Fire TV Cube, Apple TV 4K, etc. I personally use my Edge paired with a Roku Ultra. There'd not be much practical difference between Edge + Roku vs Roamio/Bolt + Roku.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the detailed response. I have a smart tv, so I always stream directly from the tv. You are so right when you say the Roamio is virtually unusable for streaming.


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## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

mikey1273 said:


> I still have my romaio Ota and tivo mini
> Not used anymore. when I changed to antenna from Comcast I always had issues with the guide data being wrong. The broadcasters changing sub channels and tivo taking 2 months to resolve a line up change request.
> Then the new preroll adds started to crash my box.
> I got an HDHOMERUN flex4k and am now using plex bur also tested channels dvr. I think channels is a bit more polished but plex worked well enough for me on my windows computer and has for years to do things the tivo romiao couldn't do and I had a lifetime plex pass already.
> ...


I found a service called playon that is used to record streaming programs. I obviously haven't used it, but that would be great for me if it actually works.


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## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

SleepyD said:


> Are you talking about DVR service from Silicondust having a lifetime option? The Channels DVR is a separate service. They don’t offer a lifetime option but it’s a great service and if you want it to stay great they need to have a revenue stream. I think that’s partly the problem with TiVos. The Channels DVR has automatic commercial skip that works really well. They can record from streaming TV services. Combine it with PlayOn and you can record streaming services. You should really check it out.


I just posted something about playon. I discovered it in a good old Google search. I take it you use it and you are satisfied?


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## Hank4 (Jun 9, 2014)

dmrshop said:


> I have been using a 6-tuner Roamio Plus for 7 years, and I love it, but I am getting ready to cut the cord and don't want to give up the functionality of my TiVo. TiVo has a great offer right now on a new Edge OTA with lifetime service, but I've read that the old Roamio OTAs are better devices. The one thing I really dislike about the Edge is that it only has two tuners. I will still want to record sporting events from a streaming service for ease of playback, so I don't think two tuners would cut it, especially since most of the programming I watch is recorded from broadcast TV.
> 
> I would appreciate the community's thoughts on Roamio vs Edge OTA. Pros and cons, personal experiences, etc.
> 
> ...


I have had a Roamio for about the same amount of time and really like it. Are you wanting to go OTA to reduce your cost or are you simply not interested in cable-only channels? I have never even thought about whether or not you could access streaming services without the cable card installed. If your Roamio is up and going, then you could simply try removing the cable card and see if you still have access to the streaming services. My Roamio also has a tuning adapter which is inserted, via a splitter, into the signal path between the TiVo and the cable service connector. I DO know that my TiVo will still operate without the tuning adapter. It just won’t get as many channels.


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## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

Hank4 said:


> I have had a Roamio for about the same amount of time and really like it. Are you wanting to go OTA to reduce your cost or are you simply not interested in cable-only channels? I have never even thought about whether or not you could access streaming services without the cable card installed. If your Roamio is up and going, then you could simply try removing the cable card and see if you still have access to the streaming services. My Roamio also has a tuning adapter which is inserted, via a splitter, into the signal path between the TiVo and the cable service connector. I DO know that my TiVo will still operate without the tuning adapter. It just won’t get as many channels.


I actually do all my streaming through my smart tv, to which my Roamio is attached. I know I don't need the TiVo for that. I'm simply looking to cut out cable because it's ridiculously expensive and I really won't need it if I can get local sports through a streaming service (Bally's is supposedly going in that direction). Most of the TV that I watch is broadcast TV. I do really like the recording and playback options of the TiVo which is why if I am cutting the cord I was considering going the OTA route.


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## Dansktex (Jul 7, 2017)

dmrshop said:


> I have been using a 6-tuner Roamio Plus for 7 years, and I love it, but I am getting ready to cut the cord and don't want to give up the functionality of my TiVo. TiVo has a great offer right now on a new Edge OTA with lifetime service, but I've read that the old Roamio OTAs are better devices. The one thing I really dislike about the Edge is that it only has two tuners. I will still want to record sporting events from a streaming service for ease of playback, so I don't think two tuners would cut it, especially since most of the programming I watch is recorded from broadcast TV.
> 
> I would appreciate the community's thoughts on Roamio vs Edge OTA. Pros and cons, personal experiences, etc.
> 
> ...


The MAIN difference between the Roamio and the Edge is that Tivo discovered they made a mistake by making the Guide free with the Roamio. Therefore, the Roamio was discontinued and the Edge was introduced, but with a $6.99 per month fee to get the Guide which is necessary for setting it for making recordings!! It's a ripoff.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

Dansktex said:


> The MAIN difference between the Roamio and the Edge is that Tivo discovered they made a mistake by making the Guide free with the Roamio. Therefore, the Roamio was discontinued and the Edge was introduced, but with a $6.99 per month fee to get the Guide which is necessary for setting it for making recordings!! It's a ripoff.


Just FYI, all TiVo models require a paid guide data plan. The only way to get a "free" guide data plan is by paying for lifetime (All-In plan) upfront. That option is still available for the Edge.

Not only that, but there is a model you are missing in-between the Roamio and the Edge, and that is called the Bolt.


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## jfmorris (Feb 26, 2009)

Britflix said:


> I’m on a Roamio OTA with multi-tuner as well & because the Edge only has 2, I’m not upgrading. There is a ChannelMaster Edge box with 6 tuners, but when you add that cost & the outrageous charge from switching a lifetime plan over to a new box, I’m probably gonna ditch TiVo altogether, when mine does eventually die.


I've got the Romio OTA from a few years back, with 4 tuners, as well as an old Tivo HD (old 3rd gen box) that has 2 tuners I believe. Both have lifetime service, but I rarely ever watch anything on the TV that the older Tivo is on, but keep it plugged in since it is paid for.

I cannot understand why the new Edge has dropped to 2 tuners. I often have all 4 tuners recording on my Romio OTA on weeknights during primetime, to get shows from the major networks that we watch later once they are recorded. 2 tuners is a severe limitation, and there is no technical reason for it.


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## moedaman (Aug 21, 2012)

BrokerDon said:


> I haven't needed more than the 2 OTA tuners on our TiVo Edge OTA, maybe because we upgraded from a TiVo Premiere XL. If I had to record > 2 shows that were recording simultaneously I was always able to find one of the shows being re-run at an later time (usually in the middle of the night) or stream.
> 
> But other TiVo users do need to record ? 2 shows concurrently so 2 tuner Edge isn't for everybody... but we love ours.


Can the 2-tuner Edge use the Tivo Mini? If not, then why did Tivo revert back to a 2-tuner model?


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

dmrshop said:


> It definitely sounds like the old Roamio OTA is superior. Does anyone think that TiVo will ever come out with a new four or six tuner OTA? I know things don't look promising for TiVo in general, but the alternative DVR products pale in comparison to TiVo based upon my limited research.


Probably not.

But honestly the edge dvrs are junk.

As for Ota you do not need to go that route.

You can get a regular 4 tuner bolt it works with either an antenna or cable.

I am going to try and post you a link. From weaknees on which model you need it comes with a 500 gig laptop size western digital drive but you can swap that out and like the romio. It will auto format up to 3 terabytes.

For example you can install either a Toshiba or Seagate barracuda laptop size drive if you wish.

Up to 3 terabytes without having to worry about anything more complicated like I have done.

Here is the weaknees link for the bolt I am referencing 

And you can choose a bigger hard drive up to 2 terabytes if you wish over the 500 gig one which I recomend it also includes the lifetime subscription the 2tb option was around 500 dollars vs Amazon which does not include the lifetime service you can even keep your current one connected to your network to share shows or to store and access recordings.

Hope this helps. 






TiVo Bolt DVRs


TiVo DVRs, remotes, upgrades, parts, and repairs for all TiVo, DIRECTV, Bolt, Roamio, Premiere and other DVR models.




www.weaknees.com


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## JackMcC (Aug 11, 2019)

You can buy a refurbished TiVo edge 4 channel OTA on the www.weaknees.com site for $599 with the lifetime subscription. There’s only one left.



TiVo Edge DVR for Antenna (Refurbished) - TiVos - WeaKnees - the DVR Superstore




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CopRock (Jul 13, 2014)

northbound.bluevolvo said:


> When the pre-roll ads started, they were crashing our Bolt. So we called and they turned off the pre-roll ads. No more crashes.


They never should have existed in the first place unless you got the guide data for free


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## CopRock (Jul 13, 2014)

Britflix said:


> A TiVo without a DVR, is like having an empty propane tank for your BBQ.


Stares in Hank Hill


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## Mr8ball (8 mo ago)

JackMcC said:


> You can buy a refurbished TiVo edge 4 channel OTA on the www.weaknees.com site for $599 with the lifetime subscription. There’s only one left.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Or I bought a 4 tuner Bolt Ota from weakness included lifetime service $300 I have had it for about 2 months and bought a mini from ebay 1/2 price for upstair bed room and Wifi adapter. I didn't really need 4K apps or anything that are in the box Edge itself just the ability to record 4 shows at once OTA. I get all my 4K content from my TV that is a Google TV and almost brand new. Hope this little bit helps just offering my two cents.


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## nologic (Jun 30, 2007)

When I called TiVo to evaluate buying the new Edge, I was told that it had 6 tuners. I was also told that all my existing recordings can be ported over as well as my list of Onepass shows to be recorded. So I was pretty ready to upgrade until I read this threat.

As for whether to buy a new TIvo Edge or not… I have a six tuner Romio with lifetime service. It works fine, and I also use a Mini which has been upgraded to the latest model. For what it’s worth, I seem to have no problem streaming, if you’re talking about Netflix, Hulu, and Amazon Prime, but I don’t think I can record those shows. I do think it would be nice to be able to record shows from Netflix so they’re more instantly available… It’s really a tiny time-saving thing as in less than a minute but it would be an advantage if that’s some thing that the Edge offers.

As for streaming, I believe I am streaming through the Romeo or Minni, because to go to Netflix, I go to TiVo Central, and then I push on apps and up pops a list of apps like Netflix, and so I simply click on Netflix and watch the shows that I want to watch.

I was considering buying the new Edge because I perceived it would be faster spooling the downloading of Netflix and other similar apps/shows, and that the clarity would be greater.

The ability to record Netflix shows seems of limited value because they are available on demand.

For what it’s worth though, I am finding that I am really only actively watching recorded sports, particularly NFL football, because I am often out on Sunday afternoons. Yes, my Romeo with six channels is set up with a whole lineup of 100 or so recordings, and so I have a huge library of things to watch under My Shows. But I just don’t find that I watch them much anymore. I almost always go to Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, etc. I also watch recorded shows on my TiVo like 60 Minutes, Saturday Night Live, And 48 Hours, but I could live without that, although I don’t know if these shows are available on the apps.

Otherwise, I watch live news, including CNBC during the daytime, and live sports, but I don’t need a TiVo for that.

So, reading all of the threads above, the sales people at TiVo must have been wrong when they told me that the new Edge has six tuners, and I am now concluding that I use TiVo so little, that it’s not worth the effort and cost of conversion.


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## Elliot2 (Dec 15, 2016)

SoCalSue said:


> I think it's crazy the OTA Edge only has two tuners. If you're a cord cutter, you need at least 4 tuners. I have a Roamio OTA with 4 and if it breaks I will have to find a non TiVO solution as 2 tuners is ridiculously insufficient. Don't know who is making product decisions over there but they are giving up a huge market.


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## Elliot2 (Dec 15, 2016)

glfiske said:


> I have already cut the cord and like you I had a Cable Tivo's Edge and Roamio. I bought the Edge OTA and am very disappointed in it Only 2 tuners makes it just about useless. Because of that limitation, I never use it and my house hold no longer uses Tivo for anything. Note: I have had Tivo's since the first model came out many years ago. We still miss the Tivo interface but Tivo has in my opinion abandoned the DVR for their Streaming Dongle that really has nothing over the Fire TV or Google Devices. We use mostly Google TV now.


Dumb that it only has two tuners. I have two Romeo's and they're great. What would anyone get an edge ota


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## northbound.bluevolvo (7 mo ago)

SoCalSue said:


> I think it's crazy the OTA Edge only has two tuners. If you're a cord cutter, you need at least 4 tuners. I have a Roamio OTA with 4 and if it breaks I will have to find a non TiVO solution as 2 tuners is ridiculously insufficient. Don't know who is making product decisions over there but they are giving up a huge market.


Hi, I do not understand this comment. I thought that a cord cutter was a person with no TV service, so no need for any tuners at all. Or are you saying that a TiVo streamer can actually record streamed content? I did not think that was possible. Admittedly, my background is limited; I have a full cable TV package for my Bolt. I find the streaming options on the Bolt to be useful (Amazon, Netflix), but extremely limited, so i also have a Roku. Any enlightenment would be welcome. Thanks.

Edited to add: OK, disregard, I get it. You use the tuners for recording OTA content. I didn't think of that.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

pl1 said:


> Just FYI, all TiVo models require a paid guide data plan. The only way to get a "free" guide data plan is by paying for lifetime (All-In plan) upfront. That option is still available for the Edge.


_Technically correct,_ however there were several different OTA only (keywords OTA ONLY) models that were sold with All-In included in the purchase price and at a significantly lower cost than Cable capable units, those did not offer the purchaser a choice in plans.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

northbanker said:


> Thanks for that tip. My cable provider (Optimum) may have stopped supporting cable cards. I think the last time I spoke with them they said "oh we don't know anything about those any more" so I got the impression that I'll just have to pray the "mcard" cable card keeps working as is, or else I may be a bit screwed.
> 
> So, your MFS Tools idea of copying the HD to a new drive, might be the way to go. I'll watch the video and/or keep a link to it for when I _might_ get serious about doing this.
> 
> Thanks again.


Optimum still supports CC.


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## BrokerDon (Sep 9, 2006)

northbound.bluevolvo said:


> When the pre-roll ads started, they were crashing our Bolt. So we called and they turned off the pre-roll ads. No more crashes.


We replaced our TiVo Premiere XL (OTA and cable) with a TiVo Edge OTA and Apple TV 4K. We haven't found 2 tuners limiting since we RARELY need to record 3+ shows in the same time slot. If we do, we can watch them on our Apple TV 4K via the broadcaster's app or re-broadcaster's app(typically Hulu)... or our TiVo Edge OTA will pick up reruns which typically run late at night or early morning when none of our TiVo's scheduled shows are recording.

Yes some people HAVE to have more than 2 OTA tuners but I'm guessing that's a minority of TiVo users.

However, I agree should offer a TiVo Edge OTA with 4 tuners for those people who need more than 2 tuners... but 2 additional tuners probably creates heat issues in the already tiny TiVo Edge box and TiVo DVR development has stalled so not optimistic this will actually happen.


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## Elliot2 (Dec 15, 2016)

dianebrat said:


> _Technically correct,_ however there were several different OTA only (keywords OTA ONLY) models that were sold with All-In included in the purchase price and at a significantly lower cost than Cable capable units, those did not offer the purchaser a choice in plans.


TiVo no longer makes the Romeo. You can buy a used one on eBay but you want to be sure it includes the lifetime subscription


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

northbound.bluevolvo said:


> Hi, I do not understand this comment. I thought that a cord cutter was a person with no TV service, so no need for any tuners at all.


The widely accepted definition for cord cutter is one who no longer has a cable TV subscription. A cord cutter can still use OTA tuners and subscribe to streaming services, many of which have all the same content as cable TV and a cloud DVR.


Elliot2 said:


> TiVo no longer makes the Romeo. You can buy a used one on eBay but you want to be sure it includes the lifetime subscription


There are also quite a few lifetime Roamios available in the marketplace here in this forum for very little money. IMO, it's less risky to deal with long time, trusted members of this community than some stranger on ebay, especially when you need to stay in contact with the seller to get the lifetime transferred.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

BrokerDon said:


> [...] 2 additional tuners probably creates heat issues in the already tiny TiVo Edge box and TiVo DVR development has stalled so not optimistic this will actually happen.


FWIW, just checked one of my 4-tuner OTA Edges. ODT of 48. Curious what a 2-tuner Edge runs at.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

nologic said:


> When I called TiVo to evaluate buying the new Edge, I was told that it had 6 tuners. I was also told that all my existing recordings can be ported over as well as my list of Onepass shows to be recorded. So I was pretty ready to upgrade until I read this threat.


 Support was correct. A TiVo Edge "for cable only" has 6 tuners. See the chart here: Tivo Customer Support Community. And, all one-passes can be copied online at online.tivo.com  as long as both units are on the same account. And, non-copy protected content can also be transferred from your Roamio to your Edge. (I am not recommending the Edge over the Roamio, just clearing up the misinformation.)


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

dmrshop said:


> That might work, except I'm not quite ready to cut the cord. I'm waiting for Bally Sports to come out with their streaming service and for confirmation that my teams will be part of the service. It's all about hockey for me. 😄


You may have your wish on June 23. See this article: Bally Sports+ DTC Service to Launch on June 23 in Select Markets

*This soft launch will not be the full roll-out of the service. Initially, the DTC streamer will be available in select markets to stream five MLB teams: Detroit Tigers, Miami Marlins, Kansas City Royals, Milwaukee Brewers, and Tampa Bay Rays. As The Streamable first reported, the service will cost $19.99 per month or $189.99 annually.*


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

Mr8ball said:


> Or I bought a 4 tuner Bolt Ota from weakness included lifetime service $300 I have had it for about 2 months and bought a mini from ebay 1/2 price for upstair bed room and Wifi adapter. I didn't really need 4K apps or anything that are in the box Edge itself just the ability to record 4 shows at once OTA. I get all my 4K content from my TV that is a Google TV and almost brand new. Hope this little bit helps just offering my two cents.


Just so you know, the TiVo Bolt is 4K ready. Same as the Edge. See here: Tivo Customer Support Community


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## Dansktex (Jul 7, 2017)

pl1 said:


> Just FYI, all TiVo models require a paid guide data plan. The only way to get a "free" guide data plan is by paying for lifetime (All-In plan) upfront. That option is still available for the Edge.
> 
> Not only that, but there is a model you are missing in-between the Roamio and the Edge, and that is called the Bolt.
> 
> ...


Yes, the Roamio OTA was priced to include the lifteime free guide, but it did and still does and was and has been a bargain. I have never paid a penny more than my original price ($300+). However, the Edge OTA at $199 plus $6.99 per per month will be over what I paid in less than 2 years of paying for the Guide and then will cost and cost and cost forever. I have had my Roamio for about 4-5 years now with no added fees. Someone at Tivo wasn't thinking when they offered us the "high priced" Roamio OTA with the Guide included. I guarantee you that is why they no longer offer a Roamio (except now under the name of the Edge)! The Roamio came out when few of us were cutting the cord and the Guide was probably included to sell the unit. Now TIVO realizes that so many people are cutting the cord that they had to rename the unit and add the monthly Guide fee.


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## JackMcC (Aug 11, 2019)

Even my two channel Premiere with lifetime is a better deal than a new OTA edge. Other than it being much slower, I could record OTA and cable channels all from the same guide. 

Plus it has analog RCA video and audio outputs in addition to HDMI so I could play it back on my 82 yr old mother’s CRT. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Doubledown00 (Jan 16, 2020)

I had a Bolt with 2 minis. The streaming apps were hopelessly out of date with no updates on the horizon. Then they started rolling out ads in the viewing guide. 

That was a enough for me so I said "smell ya later" to Tivo two years ago. Went with a Plex server attached to an HD Homerun for video and two Nvidia shields for the TVs. We could watch anywhere and I gained a way to digitize / store my DVD collection for viewing.

All for free.99, no reoccurring monthly costs for the hardware. I really resented paying monthly for the privilege of having a guide and then having suffer ads on top of that. _And_ cheap hardware to boot.

God bless those of you that are still trying to ice skate up hill with this sh*t company.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Dansktex said:


> Yes, the Roamio OTA was priced to include the lifteime free guide, but it did and still does and was and has been a bargain. I have never paid a penny more than my original price ($300+). However, the Edge OTA at $199 plus $6.99 per per month will be over what I paid in less than 2 years of paying for the Guide and then will cost and cost and cost forever. I have had my Roamio for about 4-5 years now with no added fees. Someone at Tivo wasn't thinking when they offered us the "high priced" Roamio OTA with the Guide included. I guarantee you that is why they no longer offer a Roamio (except now under the name of the Edge)! The Roamio came out when few of us were cutting the cord and the Guide was probably included to sell the unit. Now TIVO realizes that so many people are cutting the cord that they had to rename the unit and add the monthly Guide fee.


For its 20+ year history TiVo has always put out refreshed hardware (with new product marketing name) every few years.

The fact that they changed the pricing scheme for the Roamio has nothing to do with why they discontinued it for the Bolt, and then the Bolt for the Edge.

They could have just as easily just changed tve Roamio pricing scheme.

The Edge is also not just a renamed Roamio, the hardware is completely different.


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## Barnstormer (Sep 23, 2015)

I have two Roamio DVRs. I can't imagine only two tuners. I often use three at a time. Four at a time is rare, but when I need them, I need them. I've avoided the Edge for several reasons, but the main one is that it doesn't have at least three tuners.


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## tommeboy23 (8 mo ago)

I also have two TiVo Roamio Plus units that drive the whole house (with minis else where) .. they are great with 6 tuners and if the hard drives go bad, super easy to replace (they auto format)
Since my local cable provider has been good with cable cards, we just continue to use with no issues. I have a feeling cable cards will eventually fall out of favor, but honestly nothing new beats the ease and 6 tuners TiVo Roamio Plus units had. I would upgrade to a NEW unit, but all the new models have less features. For streaming I just use separate device all together (Roku Ultra)

It does feel like TiVo's DVR marketshare is dwindling to nothing, but I will keep what I have and patiently see where the market moves.


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## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

gabrielstern said:


> Probably not.
> 
> But honestly the edge dvrs are junk.
> 
> ...


Thank you!


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## ChileHead (Feb 10, 2002)

I'm surprised so many people can't manage with 2 tuners. I got my first TiVo in 2002 and until my HDTivo died a couple years ago, I don't think I've ever had a situation where I needed to record more than 2 shows. Though I really don't watch too much TV anyway, but 2 has always suited me just fine. Though now I'm using a Tablo as I had the choice when my HDTivo died to replace the drive so I could keep my lifetime service, get something new with lifetime which was more $$ than I wanted to spend, or try something else.


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## Elliot2 (Dec 15, 2016)

JackMcC said:


> You can buy a refurbished TiVo edge 4 channel OTA on the www.weaknees.com site for $599 with the lifetime subscription. There’s only one left.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can get a Romeo for a fraction of that


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## JackMcC (Aug 11, 2019)

Elliot2 said:


> You can get a Romeo for a fraction of that


True. But if you want the latest, that’s the way to go. Stay away from 2 channel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Spurlock (Oct 12, 2016)

I've been following this thread and have a question. My old TiVo is a Series 5, which apparently is a Roamio, correct? It's an OTA model with lifetime guide subscription and has been great. I swapped out the HD some years ago for a 1tb and it's just plugging along. How many tuners does it have?


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## JohnBeans (Aug 19, 2019)

I have been a hardcore TiVo user since the very earlies days. I was one of those people explaining why TiVo was different. I have cloned and replaced many drives in many TiVos, and even had a Plex net up in the house at one point.

But TiVo has kind of taken the path that Palm took in 2009—the units became underpowered and the third party software apps didn't keep up. When Xfinity pulled its On Demand app, the streaming services began producing so much great content, and TiVo began pushing the Hydra interface it all started to come to a close for me.

So now we mostly use AppleTV on all of our TVs.

But we still have a central Roamio, and Minis on each TV MoCa connected. They are now used pretty much exclusively for sports, because streaming services (in my opinion) suck at delayed viewing of sports events. The ability to begin watching a game already in progress and be able to easily skip commercials is still a TiVo strength.

Perhaps its last, for me.

Sigh.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

ChileHead said:


> I'm surprised so many people can't manage with 2 tuners. I got my first TiVo in 2002 and until my HDTivo died a couple years ago, I don't think I've ever had a situation where I needed to record more than 2 shows. Though I really don't watch too much TV anyway, but 2 has always suited me just fine.


Depending on viewing habits, I guess a single viewer household _might _get away with 2-tuners. But in a home with multiple viewers and televisions, each hooked up to Minis, just watching live TV in more than one room requires at least 2 tuners, and that's _without _recording anything.

At a time when many folks are cord cutting, but still watch locals, there may be even more consumer interest in an OTA-capable DVR than before. As a result, I can't understand the marketing decision to discontinue the 4-tuner box. I'm guessing this was Channel Master's call?


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## Albert (Sep 27, 2002)

glfiske said:


> I have already cut the cord and like you I had a Cable Tivo's Edge and Roamio. I bought the Edge OTA and am very disappointed in it Only 2 tuners makes it just about useless.


Yep! 2 tuners is ridiculous. Maybe there are a few people who it would work for, but that's gotta be a minority.



Steve said:


> Depending on viewing habits, I guess a single viewer household _might _get away with 2-tuners. But in a home with multiple viewers and televisions, each hooked up to Minis, just watching live TV in more than one room requires at least 2 tuners, and that's _without _recording anything.
> 
> At a time when many folks are cord cutting, but still watch locals, there may be even more consumer interest in an OTA-capable DVR than before. As a result, I can't understand the marketing decision to discontinue the 4-tuner box. I'm guessing this was Channel Master's call?


Yes, an OTA ATSC 3.0 TiVo DVR that doesn't show pre-roll ads (and so doesn't crash while doing so) with at least 4 tuners would probably sell as long as it wasn't too much $$$$.

I'm basically a single viewer, and I use my TiVo because I like to record the news.... both local and national, and I like to record it from multiple sources/networks at the same time, then watch what I want to watch when I want it (sometimes only certain pieces from the various networks).... so a 2-tuner DVR would definitely not cut it when it tries to record 3 or 4 news shows at the same time... and I'm just 1 person.

Two of the stupidest decisions TiVo ever made must have been to limit the OTA devices to 2 tuners and to start showing pre-roll ads... especially ads that crash your TiVo... they didn't even debug their ad system before they started crashing people's devices.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

Spurlock said:


> I've been following this thread and have a question. My old TiVo is a Series 5, which apparently is a Roamio, correct? It's an OTA model with lifetime guide subscription and has been great. I swapped out the HD some years ago for a 1tb and it's just plugging along. How many tuners does it have?


4


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

dmrshop said:


> The more I think about it and the more I study my viewing habits, the more I think I may do the same. There really isn't anything on television that I would lose sleep over if I couldn't watch it. If I can get the local channels to watch when I am home (which isn't frequently), and I can get the hockey games through a streaming service, I think I could live without my TiVo. I'm sure that I would miss it initially, but the ongoing cost of cable is ridiculous. I will give it some more time and see what happens. If my cable card keeps working, that is.


Honestly the edge dvr is just not worth it.

There is an option the original 4 tuner bolt that came stock with a 500 gig drive. Which is easily upgradable is an option. And that works with either an antenna or cable.

Like ggieseke said I have owned a version of every tivo since the series 4 up to the tivo bolt model.

And yes tivo has abandoned a lot of the dvr model..

But I have discovered 2 things with tivo.

That makes any model past the bolt a non starter. One is te4 or Quatro its a bad interface.

It could have Been improved but instead got worse.

With the romio and bolt models with the exception of the bolt Ota model they can be reverted back to te3 or Quatro with the blue interface.

And honestly my best suggestion would be to go to the weaknees site and just order a 4 tuner bolt that works with antenna or cable and choose the 2 tb option. 

As it comes for the price with the lifetime subscription included at no extra charge, then you can carry over your existing recordings after you make sure you downgraded it if necessary back to te3 or Quatro.

And go ahead and test it on an antenna hook up.

Hope this helps you.

I am posting below the weaknees link 

Below






TiVo Bolt DVRs


TiVo DVRs, remotes, upgrades, parts, and repairs for all TiVo, DIRECTV, Bolt, Roamio, Premiere and other DVR models.




www.weaknees.com





Choose the 4 tuner model that says Ota or cable.

The options are 1 or 2 tb but if that is not enough you can go bigger with mods.

Or if you wanted to go to 3tbs you could in a laptop size.

But the only drive that would work in that size is the Seagate barracuda green drive as the western digital 3tb blue drives are known for having overheating issues and wearing out.

And the Toshiba laptop size drives are limited to 2tbs which are good drives if you choose the correct ones

In the bolts.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

JackMcC said:


> True. But if you want the latest, that’s the way to go. Stay away from 2 channel.


Except latest in this case is a significant downgrade
"Friends don't let friends buy an Edge"


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## cshilton (Sep 24, 2020)

cwoody222 said:


> Optimum still supports CC.


A more accurate statement would be: _"Optimum still supports CC, but they do it very poorly."_ Last year, I moved a cablecard out of an HD TiVo of mine that finally broke. I had it re-configured to work in a SiliconDust HD Homerun Prime that I purchased on eBay. It took 5 calls to tech support over a period of two weeks to finally find an Optimum tech that completely understood the pairing process and could complete it correctly. Optimum is in the midst of transitioning to Switched Digital Video but they have hardly any tuning adapters in stock and I was not able to find any tech who understands how to configure a tuning adapter. Optimum is trying to minimize the losses for CC customers by setting it up so that you can get the HD feed of all channels without a tuning adapter. This is mostly harmless but it you subscribe to premium channels, the only ones you can be guaranteed to tune without the TA are the East coast feed channels.


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## cshilton (Sep 24, 2020)

I crossed this bridge about 3 or 4 years ago. Rather than get a new OTA TiVo, I bought a lifetime subscribed Roamio from eBay. I think I paid about $200. That's currently hooked up to my antenna and I love it. I can reach it from either of the two minis and I get a good signal from most of the NYC stations that broadcast from the top of the Freedom Tower or the Empire State building. I've multiplexed this signal between the TiVo and an HDHomerun Connect device. All fixed costs.


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## MarianL (Feb 19, 2019)

I’ve been reading this thread with interest since I am considering OTA over cable once fiber optic gets to my neighborhood. We are just getting it recently in our little town of Podunk TN. Back about 10 years ago I had a Roamio that it seems like it could be either cable or OTA. I still have it but it is inactive and was not lifetime. Am I dreaming that there was such a thing? I would have only used it on cable at the time. But might resuscitate it if I could use it once I cut the cord.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

jfmorris said:


> I've got the Romio OTA from a few years back, with 4 tuners, as well as an old Tivo HD (old 3rd gen box) that has 2 tuners I believe. Both have lifetime service, but I rarely ever watch anything on the TV that the older Tivo is on, but keep it plugged in since it is paid for.
> 
> I cannot understand why the new Edge has dropped to 2 tuners. I often have all 4 tuners recording on my Romio OTA on weeknights during primetime, to get shows from the major networks that we watch later once they are recorded. 2 tuners is a severe limitation, and there is no technical reason for it.



Agreed tivo had not had 2 tuner models since the series 4 dvr that came with a 320 gig western digital green drive.

Like I stated I had at least one of every model from the series 4 to the bolt.

I have still have in use a series 4 premier 4 tuner 500 gig stock model. That I rotate between hard drives for back ups and other purposes as needed.

The romio pro I use for multiple purposes too and is easier to use for backups. 

Vs the series 4 or bolts.

As the series 4 dvrs require reimaging and a lot more complications if you want to expand.

vs the romio and the bolts are impossible to do backups on because each time you remove a hard drive it wipes the bios making the recordings unusable the edge has continued that.

but at least with a bolt in te3 or even 4 you can get them out to a computer and back them up and once down graded transfer them directky back.

And honestly for streaming roku works better.

for some things.

but I also think it is a waste to go for ota only tivo models.

As for my model tivos I have a series 4 premier

A romio pro.

And a 4 tuner bolt that works with antenna or cable.

And a 6 tuner bolt plus.

The edge dvrs are a total waste. And I hate te4 or Quatro.

At least with all my tivos I can go from a And b to z and back again safely to a And keep them doing what I need them for. With hard drive changes every 3 to 5 years.

Also the best option is to just order a 4 tuner bolt from weaknees which is the model that works with cable or antenna.

And includes the lifetime service subscription.

I have posted at least twice in this forum the link to weaknees to order the bolt model I have referenced repeatedly.

And that is really the best option for those that are used to romios and want to cut the cable cord.

And was the last model tivo made before they got sold.

Yes if you had a romio pro you might lose 2 tuners but even if you cut the cord you can still keep it hooked up and connected to your home network to access you recordings.

Same with any other model tivo's.

Hope this helps.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

MarianL said:


> I’ve been reading this thread with interest since I am considering OTA over cable once fiber optic gets to my neighborhood. We are just getting it recently in our little town of Podunk TN. Back about 10 years ago I had a Roamio that it seems like it could be either cable or OTA. I still have it but it is inactive and was not lifetime. Am I dreaming that there was such a thing? I would have only used it on cable at the time. But might resuscitate it if I could use it once I cut the cord.



What model romio is it and now if you could reactivate it it would cost more for a lifetime subscription.

Your best bet would be to go to the weeknees site which I have posted the link for twice and order the 4 tuner bolt model in either a 1 or 2tb version which includes the lifetime subscription in the price and then you can use it with antenna or cable.

Me on all my tivos I have always done lifetime subscriptions so I could avoid situations with trying to reactivate any tivos.

As some models cannot be reactivated any longer and the multi tivo discount disappeared around 5 years ago.

Also if a tivo gets deactivated you can't get the recordings off of them.

You may want to temporarily if you can try and reactivate it for one month.

While you figure things out if possible.


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## Mike704 (Feb 4, 2011)

dmrshop said:


> It definitely sounds like the old Roamio OTA is superior. Does anyone think that TiVo will ever come out with a new four or six tuner OTA? I know things don't look promising for TiVo in general, but the alternative DVR products pale in comparison to TiVo based upon my limited research.


I have no experience working on the Edge but the Roamio is easy to work on if you have a problem. Simple to get into if there is a problem that needs to be fixed. It also uses a standard size desktop PC hard drive which are cheap if you want to go to a larger drive to increase your recording capability. Easy to do too, just drop in the new drive. With older TiVo's like the Premier there was a Linux procedure you had to go through to make it work, it was complicated. The Roameo changed al that thankfully. I know the Bolt used the smaller size laptop drives, I'm not sure what size drive the Edge uses.

I keep thinking it would be a good idea to get a UPS and put the TiVo on it in the event we have another brownout. We rarely have brownouts.


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## dschwartz (Sep 16, 2001)

nologic said:


> When I called TiVo to evaluate buying the new Edge, I was told that it had 6 tuners. I was also told that all my existing recordings can be ported over as well as my list of Onepass shows to be recorded. So I was pretty ready to upgrade until I read this threat.


What’s the process for copying files from Roamio to say, Bolt? Don’t many have copy protection set?


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

Mike704 said:


> I have no experience working on the Edge but the Roamio is easy to work on if you have a problem. Simple to get into if there is a problem that needs to be fixed. It also uses a standard size desktop PC hard drive which are cheap if you want to go to a larger drive to increase your recording capability. Easy to do too, just drop in the new drive. With older TiVo's like the Premier there was a Linux procedure you had to go through to make it work, it was complicated. The Roameo changed al that thankfully. I know the Bolt used the smaller size laptop drives, I'm not sure what size drive the Edge uses.
> 
> I keep thinking it would be a good idea to get a UPS and put the TiVo on it in the event we have another brownout. We rarely have brownouts.



With the bolt you can use a desktop size drive if you wish.

And mount it externally.

The bolt is overall pretty easy to work with.

Similar to the romio but faster processing.

The Edge dvrs use laptop size drives also.

Laptop size drives are inexpensive.

also and you cannot use a solid state with a tivo att all.

I will post a picture of my 4 tuner bolt that works either with antenna or cable. that has a 8tb western digital purple drive affixed with velcro.
And using a USB power supply has a case fan sitting on top of metal book shelf brackets to keep the hard drive cool.

But for most people that would be too complicated.

As for the laptop size drives do not use at all the western digital drives.

Either use the Toshiba for 1 and 2 tb sizes.

Or the Seagate laptop size barracuda drives

That are green colored and run at 5400 rpms.

Also Iike the romios the bolts will auto format up to 3tbs.

But I recomend using weaknees at this point over Amazon so the lifetime subscription is
included with the price.

Here is a picture of my white bolt.

This is the one to order from weaknees using the link I posted earlier
That works with antenna or cable.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

dschwartz said:


> What’s the process for copying files from Roamio to say, Bolt? Don’t many have copy protection set?


Not necessarily bolts you can do the transfer a recording directly function as long as you downgrade the software as applicable with the Edge dvrs you can not downgrade them please use the link to the weaknees site. If
you want to order any bolts. That I have posted but I will post again

to order any bolts. To avoid having to pay any extra for subscription fees. And other complications with bolt vox models which I understand can be downgraded except for the Ota only model.

If you want to go bigger than a 2 tb you can always do that later.

Here is the link by doing this you will save yourself a lot of headaches and do what you want to do with not bieng stick with cable only.







TiVo Bolt DVRs


TiVo DVRs, remotes, upgrades, parts, and repairs for all TiVo, DIRECTV, Bolt, Roamio, Premiere and other DVR models.




www.weaknees.com


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

gabrielstern said:


> Not necessarily bolts you can do the transfer a recording directly function as long as you downgrade the software as applicable with the Edge dvrs you can not downgrade them please use the link to the weaknees site. If
> you want to order any bolts. That I have posted but I will post again
> 
> to order any bolts. To avoid having to pay any extra for subscription fees. And other complications with bolt vox models which I understand can be downgraded except for the Ota only model.
> ...


I am posting another picture of the screen you should see if you have a bolt connected to a romio. Or any other tivos connected in this case I am accessing my upstairs tivo from my 6 tuner bolt plus downstairs.

Hope this answers your question.

You can also use kttmg or pytivo to back them up to a computer and transfer them back if you need to but probably will not need to do that.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

dschwartz said:


> Don’t many have copy protection set?


Copy protection is NEVER set on OTA programming. The CableCo has that privilege.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

ThAbtO said:


> Copy protection is NEVER set on OTA programming. The CableCo has that privilege.


I forgot about that.

Because most of my stuff is not copy protected.

Only premium cable channels seem to do that like HBO or Cinemax.

But I do hate copy protection.

Hope the links to weaknees and some of the pictures I have uploaded will help clear up the confusion where it seems that a lot people seem to think they need to get an Ota only model when they don't. And seem to think the edge is their only option when it isn't 

And by hopefully directing them to the weaknees site for the 4 tuner bolt. That will help those that want to cut the cable cord .

And avoid paying for extra subscription fees.

When they don't need to.

Of course tivo themselves keep bombarding me with upgrade to Edge sales but I will never do it.

Like just now.

As I have no interest in models past the bolt because I can't downgrade the software.

And Ota only models always to me seemed like a wasteful model that just confuses people.

I just wish they would make all models compatable with both again Like the old days.


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## misterclick (Oct 24, 2012)

nologic said:


> When I called TiVo to evaluate buying the new Edge, I was told that it had 6 tuners. I was also told that all my existing recordings can be ported over as well as my list of Onepass shows to be recorded. So I was pretty ready to upgrade until I read this threat.
> 
> As for whether to buy a new TIvo Edge or not… I have a six tuner Romio with lifetime service. It works fine, and I also use a Mini which has been upgraded to the latest model. For what it’s worth, I seem to have no problem streaming, if you’re talking about Netflix, Hulu, and Amazon Prime, but I don’t think I can record those shows. I do think it would be nice to be able to record shows from Netflix so they’re more instantly available… It’s really a tiny time-saving thing as in less than a minute but it would be an advantage if that’s some thing that the Edge offers.
> 
> ...


They are NOT usually wrong, they just EXAGGERATE because they are trying to make a sale. I have found that out the hard way, unfortunately.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

misterclick said:


> They are NOT usually wrong, they just EXAGGERATE because they are trying to make a sale. I have found that out the hard way, unfortunately.



Exactly the first time I ever found myself unhappy with Tivo was when hydra came out.

And I stupidly first upgraded my romio to it then my bolt upstairs at first it was okay but overtime hydra got really bad.

That's why I keep saying do not buy any edge dvrs period because of hydra you can not downgrade them.

And why I keep saying do not run any tivos in hydra 

You will burn out the hard drives 

And overload the processors.

also do not buy any Ota only model tivos just use the link to weaknees that I have posted a few times now. And get the the 4 tuner bolt make sure it's downgraded from hydra and then you cable and cord cutters can enjoy your bolt with an antenna without bieng upset and keep your existing tivos connected into your home network without issue and even use it for extra storage.

To put it simply forgot about the edge dvr.

And Ota only tivo models. 

And follow the links I sent and everything will be okay and it will be a lot less complicated.

Also I can happily say once I downgraded my romio and 2 bolts back to te3 or the stock software I have never been happier.

As that upgrade to a so called better experience is junk and is a pain to get all the recordings out just to downgrade it as you lose all your recordings and settings when you downgrade and I am not going through that again.


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## dmrshop (Nov 1, 2015)

pl1 said:


> You may have your wish on June 23. See this article: Bally Sports+ DTC Service to Launch on June 23 in Select Markets
> 
> *This soft launch will not be the full roll-out of the service. Initially, the DTC streamer will be available in select markets to stream five MLB teams: Detroit Tigers, Miami Marlins, Kansas City Royals, Milwaukee Brewers, and Tampa Bay Rays. As The Streamable first reported, the service will cost $19.99 per month or $189.99 annually.*


I saw that. Unfortunately, I am in St Louis and neither the Cardinals nor the Blues are currently included. ☹


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## MarianL (Feb 19, 2019)

gabrielstern said:


> What model romio is it and now if you could reactivate it it would cost more for a lifetime subscription.
> 
> Your best bet would be to go to the weeknees site which I have posted the link for twice and order the 4 tuner bolt model in either a 1 or 2tb version which includes the lifetime subscription in the price and then you can use it with antenna or cable.
> 
> ...


Honestly, I don’t know which model it is and it is in my storage. When I look at inactive equipment at Tivo.com I can see what I assume is a serial number but not a model number. It was originally activated in 2015. i will have to dig it out and check the model. 

I will check on Weaknees and see what they offer. It will be a while before I convert since fiber optic isn’t close to happening in my neighborhood yet. Thanks!


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

MarianL said:


> Honestly, I don’t know which model it is and it is in my storage. When I look at inactive equipment at Tivo.com I can see what I assume is a serial number but not a model number. It was originally activated in 2015. i will have to dig it out and check the model.
> 
> I will check on Weaknees and see what they offer. It will be a while before I convert since fiber optic isn’t close to happening in my neighborhood yet. Thanks!


Your welcome I am posting below the weaknees link.

For you for the bolt model I have Bern referencing my tivos can't be deactivated unless I do it because they all have lifetime subscriptions on them.

Let's say I have goten my money's worth considering all the equipment except for one was activated with lifetime subscriptions before 2018. And I got the old multi tivo discount before it was discontinued in late 2017

Enjoy the link







TiVo Bolt DVRs


TiVo DVRs, remotes, upgrades, parts, and repairs for all TiVo, DIRECTV, Bolt, Roamio, Premiere and other DVR models.




www.weaknees.com


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## cshilton (Sep 24, 2020)

MarianL said:


> I’ve been reading this thread with interest since I am considering OTA over cable once fiber optic gets to my neighborhood. We are just getting it recently in our little town of Podunk TN. Back about 10 years ago I had a Roamio that it seems like it could be either cable or OTA. I still have it but it is inactive and was not lifetime. Am I dreaming that there was such a thing? I would have only used it on cable at the time. But might resuscitate it if I could use it once I cut the cord.


What you find out may vary. The good news is that the older TiVos, possibly like your old Roamio, could be either Cable or OTA. The advantage of a Roamio on OTA would be that I don't get any extra Ads, just what comes in the broadcast signals that I pick up. The bad new is that when I last checked, TiVo was not interested in adding service to older model TiVo hardware that didn't have a lifetime subscription already. If you buy a used TiVo that had lifetime service, you can transfer that service into your account. But if you have a TiVo and with month to month service and you allowed the month to month to lapse, TiVo's not interested in re-activating your hardware. It may be worthwhile to double check me here. But that's what I understood when I allowed my HD TiVo's service to lapse 5 years ago.

Right now, the best TiVo for OTA is probably a used Roamio or a Bolt with lifetime service that was originally sold for Cable/Antenna. If you are concerned about the hardware dying, upgrade the hard drive to a newer, larger unit as described in other parts of this forum.


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

I recommend either a Roku or Fire TV stick, or better a Roku TV, for your streaming purposes. Let TiVo stick to the time shifting it's good at.

We have a Roamio, Bolt and Edge, all cable, all lifetime. We've had maybe 8-12 Lifetimed TiVos over the years.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

cshilton said:


> What you find out may vary. The good news is that the older TiVos, possibly like your old Roamio, could be either Cable or OTA. The advantage of a Roamio on OTA would be that I don't get any extra Ads, just what comes in the broadcast signals that I pick up. The bad new is that when I last checked, TiVo was not interested in adding service to older model TiVo hardware that didn't have a lifetime subscription already. If you buy a used TiVo that had lifetime service, you can transfer that service into your account. But if you have a TiVo and with month to month service and you allowed the month to month to lapse, TiVo's not interested in re-activating your hardware. It may be worthwhile to double check me here. But that's what I understood when I allowed my HD TiVo's service to lapse 5 years ago.
> 
> Right now, the best TiVo for OTA is probably a used Roamio or a Bolt with lifetime service that was originally sold for Cable/Antenna. If you are concerned about the hardware dying, upgrade the hard drive to a newer, larger unit as described in other parts of this forum.


Yep but here's more good news on te3 you do not have to worry about ads either.

You can on Hydra which the edge dvrs come with and can't be downgraded call tivo and ask them to opt you out of the ads which I did before downgrading.

But it's just not worth it.

Also on all my tivo's I have expanded drives.

I am running 8tb drives on my bolts mounted externally and with book shelf brackets and velcro and 120m case fans powering thevfans keep my desktop size drives cool to the touch on my bolts.

For my romio I have a case fan to keep my temporary drive cool.

I did test a Seagate barracuda desktop drive and that is the only drive if you go over 6tbs that stays cool to the touch as both the purple and even the red plus drives run at 7200 rpms.

The Seagate iron wolf no pro is fine up to 6tbs but that may have changed.

My test for desktop drives is does it get hot when not cooled by a case fan.

So with a bolt I can get away with a purple drive in 8tbs or bigger but in a series 4 or romio if I put that in the tivo and close the lid. Even with just an exhaust fan the drive will still get to hot.

And it sucks the green drives were discontinued it seems like all the desktop drives are going to 7200 rpms.

Which unless you put a case fan on top of them get too hot.

Which will make your tivo and recordings go crazy and get weird errors.

Here is a picture of my upstairs bolt with my desktop size drive.

Enjoy


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

Spurlock said:


> How many tuners does it have?


How do you not know how many tuners your Tivo has?


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## Spurlock (Oct 12, 2016)

Resist said:


> How do you not know how many tuners your Tivo has?


Just curious, I bought it years ago and have never had a problem with it but now wondering. Apparently 4 it appears from what I've seen. I'm in my mid-70s and don't remember like I used to.


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## Spurlock (Oct 12, 2016)

pl1 said:


> 4


Thank you


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

I am also posting a picture of my other bolt plus which is Cable only to give descriptions on how you can put bigger drives on top and keep them cool to the touch even with bolts for either Cable or antenna.

Just keep in mind that before removing any hard drives in bolts you must back up all recordings either into a computer with py tivo or keep your existing tivo connected to your home network if it's not a edge dvr and running te3 so you can keep it up to date if it's on a lifetime subscription.

Because each time you change out or remove the hard drive you will lose access to your existing recordings and settings because the memory flash is stored in a different way then the romios were.

But it's not hard to back them up with kttmg or py tivo and transfer them back.

the drives on both bolts are western digital 8tb drives that were reformatted using mffs reformator not sure if the forum is still there.

That I found out were 7200 rpm drives.

And the drives are affixed with velcro

And the case fans are touch aqua cheap case fans powered via a USB power adaptor and micro connectors pwm management on one and the other is silver brand or something to plug the fan connector into.

And I affixed small metal book shelf brackets to the hard drive so the case fan can sit on top comfortably on the hard drive with the fan facing up like an intake to blow cool air around the hard drive it has stayed cool to the touch and I have filter screens on both that I remove and clean once a year.

Enjoy since the topic of desktop drives came up

On bolts.

If there are questions about desktop size drives over 3tbs in romios or bolts I encourage anyone to please go to the mffs reformator forum or mffs tools 3.2 forum for further guidance on how to correctly reformat the drive to work in either a romio or bolt.

Otherwise a bolt like a romio will format any hard drive automatically up to 3tbs.

As the software is stored in the motherboard just like the romios.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

Spurlock said:


> Just curious, I bought it years ago and have never had a problem with it but now wondering. Apparently 4 it appears from what I've seen. I'm in my mid-70s and don't remember like I used to.


What model is it is it a series 4 premier or a romio. I am a little rusty on the amount of tuners for the non pro romios. Which has 6 tuners

I think the romio plus models had 4 tuners and the regular romios had 4 tuners also.

If I am remembering corectly the regular romio had 4 tuners and could work with either Cable or an antenna and came stock with a 500 gig western digital green drive.

The romio plus was a cable only model and came stock with a 1tb western digital green drive.

And the pros like mine was a cable only model with 6 tuners and came originally with a 3tb green drive.

If it's a series 4 which is pre romio.

The base model came with 2 tuners and a 320 gig hard drive. And worked with either an antenna or cable.

The series 4 premiers like the one I own came stock with a 500 gig hard drive 4 tuners and was cable only.

For the series 4 as I discovered recently there was briefly the 2tb model XLR model which got discontinued and was replaced with a 1tb model that was a cable only model and had 4 tuners.

Hope this helps you figure out which model tivo you have.

Another tip until the edge came out the last time tivo had a 2 tuner model was the 320 gig series 4 model I referenced.

So If it's a romio it's either a 4 or 6 tuner model.

The 4 your are referring to may be the series 4 tivo model which preceded the romio.

And is a really old model 

I am posting a picture of my series 4 premier I have as a reference point to help you.

Bug chances are if it says 4 on the front it is a series 4.

The model I am posting a picture of is of the premier model series 4 which was my first tivo.

Which I still use periodically when I need to create backups when changing out hard drives or servicing my romio hard drives.

Or testing hard drives for heat tests


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

Spurlock said:


> Just curious, I bought it years ago and have never had a problem with it but now wondering. Apparently 4 it appears from what I've seen. I'm in my mid-70s and don't remember like I used to.


All you have to do was bring up the menu to see this information. But I guess you never used all the tuners to record?


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

Resist said:


> All you have to do was bring up the menu to see this information. But I guess you never used all the tuners to record?


That's true I remember when I bought my first tivo which was the series 4 in the picture above.

It took me a couple of weeks to figure out how to navigate the tuners.

But once I figured it out with all the navigation buttons, i realized I could save channels in them and use the the arrows on the remote .

To navigate between the different channels.

But to be fair if someone has not really recorded much and has a really old tivo like a series 4 with only 2 tuners they may have never utilized all those functions.


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## wblynch (Aug 13, 2003)

MarianL said:


> <…> Back about 10 years ago I had a Roamio that it seems like it could be either cable or OTA. I still have it but it is inactive and was not lifetime. <…>


you can get an OTA lifetimed Roamio and transfer the cable card connector from your old box and use it for cable or OTA. Probably the easiest and most cost effective route.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

wblynch said:


> you can get an OTA lifetimed Roamio and transfer the cable card connector from your old box and use it for cable or OTA. Probably the easiest and most cost effective route.


Correct to a degree the original 500 gig romio came with 4 tuners and could be used either for cable or antenna or ota.

But the bolt has the same feature and a better processor and if ordered from weaknees includes the lifetime subscription and of ordered from weaknees comes with a choice of a 1tb drive or 2 tb drive.
Iike I have stated in earlier posts in this forum I have the 2 bolt models and a romio pro and a series 4 premier.

The bolt models I have are the 4 tuner bolt that can be either Ota or cable and a 6 tuner bolt plus which is Cable only.

And I have found that both bolt models perform better at this point to even my romio pro.

Which is still pretty good and better than my series 4 is.

Also as long as the bolts are not running hydra or te4 they are fine. As is the romio models.

As for the edge dvrs they are junk hydra is junk.

And on the Edge dvrs they cannot be downgraded at all.

Look at the post ggieseke posted about the edge dvr. In this forum 

And he tested them and probably tried to figure out how to make the edge dvr better and probably tried to figure out how to make hydra work but couldn't and he has owned every tivo model since they first came out. 

And has literally helped thousands of tivo users with all kinds of issues and has developed software like the dvr barz software to help people with tivos up to the series 4.

And other software.

So yes the first romio model which was just called the romio tivo can be used either for cable or antenna but so can the bolt.

The other 2 romio models were romio plus and romio pro.

As I remember when they first came out and I chose the pro because it had a 3 tb drive and 6 tuners.

It was after the bolt came out the Ota only romio came out.

As for bolts tivo simplified it with bolt which was a 4 tuner model with a 500 gig drive that could either be used for Ota or antenna and the bolt plus which was cable only and 6 tuners with a 3tb laptop size drive.

As for bigger storage that can be achieved multiple ways.

You can even run Destin size drives on them if you wish and go big with space if you want

You just mount the hard drive externally and attach a case fan on top.

So why is everyone focused on just the romio which I love for certain things when the bolt can do the same thing.

And at this point is more practical for most tivo users who want to cut the cable cord.

As for apps and streaming te3 is fine but if you want the fancy interface for streaming you can always get a roku or apple TV or Google or Amazon firestick.


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## wblynch (Aug 13, 2003)

Just another way to get there. Nice to have choices


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## MarianL (Feb 19, 2019)

gabrielstern said:


> Correct to a degree the original 500 gig romio came with 4 tuners and could be used either for cable or antenna or ota.
> 
> But the bolt has the same feature and a better processor and if ordered from weaknees includes the lifetime subscription and of ordered from weaknees comes with a choice of a 1tb drive or 2 tb drive.
> Iike I have stated in earlier posts in this forum I have the 2 bolt models and a romio pro and a series 4 premier.
> ...


This is my original Bolt which I still have but rarely use. It is on a TV in a room that is rarely used. Is it one of those that is also OTA?


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

MarianL said:


> This is my original Bolt which I still have but rarely use. It is on a TV in a room that is rarely used. Is it one of those that is also OTA?.


 Yes, based on the model number of TCD849000, it can be used as either OTA or cable, but not both at the same time.


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## wanab (Aug 10, 2020)

gabrielstern said:


> Your welcome I am posting below the weaknees link.
> 
> For you for the bolt model I have Bern referencing my tivos can't be deactivated unless I do it because they all have lifetime subscriptions on them.
> 
> ...


So which one would be best? Weaknees has two listing .. one for *TiVo Bolt 4-Tuner for Antenna or Cable* or *TiVo Bolt OTA - 4 Tuner Bolt for Antenna* ?


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

gabrielstern said:


> So why is everyone focused on just the romio which I love for certain things when the bolt can do the same thing.


Multiple reasons - lifetime Roamios are $200 or less, they are more reliable than the Bolt with the bigger drives, they don't look stupid like the Bolt, and you don't have to do silly things like hang a drive out the back, you just pop in a new one if you need more (reliable) storage.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

slowbiscuit said:


> Multiple reasons - lifetime Roamios are $200 or less, they are more reliable than the Bolt with the bigger drives, they don't look stupid like the Bolt, and you don't have to do silly things like hang a drive out the back, you just pop in a new one if you need more (reliable) storage.


Good points, but depends what other usability features may be important to you. E.g, an OTA Bolt allows you to watch Netflix and Prime in 4k. It also allows you to stream recordings to mobile devices, in-home or out. And you can remotely manage recordings and OnePasses from those same devices. The Edge too, if you can find a 4-tuner model.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

MarianL said:


> This is my original Bolt which I still have but rarely use. It is on a TV in a room that is rarely used. Is it one of those that is also OTA?
> View attachment 72708


Yes so is my white bolt I think yours is the one that had 4 tuners like mine that works with cable or antenna but had the 1tb drive option which was taken away.

While my white bolt came stock with a 500 gig drive but I have never used it except to revert my white bolt back to te3 last year after almost 3 years of it running on hydra.

After I attempted to revert it back to te3 with my special 3 tb dummy drive

I had to plug back in the stock drive but after I got it reverted last year and disconnected the stock drive once again.

The power sata port got completely fried.

So now I am powering my 8tb drive via a USB connector.

That's why hydra is so bad

My other bolt or romio had no issue reverting it back. Thankfully

Others have complained about the edge dvrs and having the same issue with hydra where if the attempt to change a hard drive due to a malfunction or an upgrade, the power sata ports stop working completely.


That's my white bolt below.

The other bolt I own is a bolt plus I got off of amazon And had to pay 600 dollars to get a lifetime subscription only to discover.

I could have gotten it from wesknees and avoided the extra 600 dollars for the lifetime subscription


wanab said:


> So which one would be best? Weaknees has two listing .. one for *TiVo Bolt 4-Tuner for Antenna or Cable* or *TiVo Bolt OTA - 4 Tuner Bolt for Antenna* ?


Tivo bolt for wither cable or antenna as it on te3 the tivo bolt Ota only I believe would give you the same issue as the edge dvr with hydra.

Do not get the Ota only model.

That way it's easy to switch over.

As I have said several times Ota only models are a waste.

And not necessary.

Keep it simple.

If the model that offers either or is available and achieves the goal for people that want to cut the cord then that's the model to get.

As for hard drive capacity it does not really matter if you are going to go bigger.

And if you notice on the weeknees site.

The only choices are a 1tb or 2tb. For the bolt models 

As they completely rebuild them from scratch.

As the stock western digital laptop drives were junk I know the blue laptop drives which I had in one of my laptops completely failed as the cylinder heads have a tendency to overheat

Weaknees rebuilds the bolts with Toshiba laptop size drives.

But you can't get from Toshiba a 500 gig size laptop drive or a 3tb laptop drive.

That's why thats the only 2 choices.

Hope this helps.


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## wblynch (Aug 13, 2003)

Between my sister and I we still have 4 TiVo HD’s and Premiere’s. All have burned out HDMI connectors so we rely on RGB component outputs. Reading about burned out SATA ports makes me think it’s a TiVo trend. It does make me nervous about my 3 Roamio’s and her Roamio and Bolt and how long before they burn out their HDMI ports and become landfill.

and no, the HD’s and Premiere’s aren’t used at this time. They’re all just hanging around in the closet, in case we need them when the Zombie apocalypse comes.


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## MarianL (Feb 19, 2019)

MarianL said:


> This is my original Bolt which I still have but rarely use. It is on a TV in a room that is rarely used. Is it one of those that is also OTA?
> View attachment 72708


Thanks for that. Once I cut the cord, most of my content will be streaming but being able to record from the antenna will be nice from time to time. And I won’t lose my Tivo experience that I’m used to.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

wblynch said:


> Between my sister and I we still have 4 TiVo HD’s and Premiere’s. All have burned out HDMI connectors so we rely on RGB component outputs. Reading about burned out SATA ports makes me think it’s a TiVo trend. It does make me nervous about my 3 Roamio’s and her Roamio and Bolt and how long before they burn out their HDMI ports and become landfill.
> 
> and no, the HD’s and Premiere’s aren’t used at this time. They’re all just hanging around in the closet, in case we need them when the Zombie apocalypse comes.


Not really an issue with the hdmi connectors the fried out power sata ports is more of an edge issue and bolt issue and tied to hydra,series 4, and HD tivos are not even an issue as they can't run hydra.

Romios and bolts can be upgraded to that platform and edge dvrs come with hydra and can not be reverted back to the blue screen system you are used to.

The only issue with my series 4 is that the coaxle cable connection no longer properly pulls in channels for most channels.

But I really do not use it except for when I am doing hard drive work on my other tivos. 

My romio also serves that purpose mainly and for storage of recordings.

But if I need to service my romio stuff then I need my series 4.

As for the fried out sata ports that is caused by if you are running hydra and then remove the hard drive it runs a drive check and do to a flaw in the system it makes the ports that power the hard drive unusable but that is easily fixable with just powering the drive via USB.

So if you use a bolt or romio do not upgrade it to the so called better experience or hydra.

And that is not an issue.


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## wblynch (Aug 13, 2003)

I don’t know. I read an extended list of issues that are then called non issues. I expect my Roamios will be my last tivos. The company has changed hands, doesn’t seem to care about their loyal base, and keeps introducing models with more and more issues. And they don’t even make their own equipment anymore. Although at the rate my old tivos keep chugging along I’m sure my current set will last until the bitter end of free broadcast tv. ATSC 3.0 will be the death knell.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Steve said:


> E.g, an OTA Bolt allows you to watch Netflix and Prime in 4k.


The issue being the Tivo ecosystem is one of the crappiest streaming sources out there, it lags far behind 90% of the 4K streaming sticks that cost under $50.
Tivo never invested in their app ecosystem and it shows,


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

dianebrat said:


> The issue being the Tivo ecosystem is one of the crappiest streaming sources out there, it lags far behind 90% of the 4K streaming sticks that cost under $50.
> Tivo never invested in their app ecosystem and it shows,


When I was running hydra on my bolts and romio I tested out the so called tivo plus it was junk my roku ultra has more streaming services than tivo plus or the tivo streaming device has ever had.

The tivo streaming device. Is just a glorified version of tivo plus without the dvr.

Not worth it.

I have since downgraded all my tivo's which I did a year and a half ago.

Back to te3.

The issue started when tivo got sold to rovi.

In late 2017.

Last year rovi sold it to exparia.

And experia has restored some things to tivo 

In the te3 platform.

But they are stuck with a mess 

Hydra started out okay. And worked fine for the first year.

But hydra removed the transfer a recording directly function and made it impossible to transfer a backed up recording from a computer directly to a tivo running hydra.

Rovi actaully renamed themselves tivo.

And moved the headquarters from California to near where I live in Devon Pennsylvania.

And that's when the issues started.

The bolt was developed when before tivo got sold the first time the edge got developed after tivo got sold the first time.

I think hydra was bieng worked on before tivo got sold in 2017 but got deployed before the original tivo had a chance to incorporate all the same features that was part of te3.

On top of that a year after hydra got deployed they switched the guide servers which made it impossible to force a tivo connection. And was not updating the guide correctly so you had to do a repeat guided set up just to fix the guide.

I got so frustrated with that and thats why i downgraded back to te3 or quatro or the blue screen version.

and guess what i have not had as many issues. Since 

Also Tivo desktop at first would allow you to back up a recording into a computer on te4 or hydra but not back. And in may 2018 the transfer back function disappeared from desktop olus because that certificate expired then in January 2019 the te4 certificate expired I still have tivo desktop and use it at times because it still works with te3 and py tivo has restored my transfer back from a computer function to any tivo running te3.



Py tivo still allows you to get recordings out of hydra but if you do not downgrade it.

Then you need to transfer it first to a device still running te3 then from that device transfer out of it using tivo online which half of the time won't transfer it correctly because it can't modulate the bandwidth on an older recording.

And I still need those functions when I am doing hard drive maintanance work for example in about 2 months I am going to be taking down my 8tb purple drive which is sitting on top of my romio right now.

And will need to use mffs tools 3.2 to expand and format corectlly an 8tb drive for my series 4.

And then use mffs refornattor for a Seagate 8tb barracuda green or possibly an iron wolf red drive. If I can get it in a 5400 rpm version if not then I will have to go with the barracuda green version as with western digital I cannot get a red or purple drive that is a 5400 rpm drive as I tested both in the 8tb size and both get to hot without a case fan blowing cool air on them with a bolt it is okay mounted externally but with a series 4 or a romio that still takes desktop size drives if I put it in the normal way it would malfunction and make my tivo go crazy.

And have errors and have heat issues.

With a bolt it's a different story.

I will show you via a picture of my bolt to illustrate.

Why a bolt is a better option at this point if you want to cut the cord and go Ota.

You will see from my hard drive set up as my case fan keeps both of my bolt 8tb western digital purple drives cool to the touch and both ate mounted externally with velcro straps.

And metal bookshelf brackets mounted with hard drive screws allow a normal case fan powered via a USB connector to a pwm management connector that runs the fan to keep my hard drive cool at all times.

I am running things that way on my romio right now but I do not want to keep doing that.

At all any longer than I have too.



Hope this helps you with some ideas as well as others.

But you can keep the bolts going for several more years and even keep your existing romio or older tivos too if you have them

As the romio is still great for things like backing up a hard drive from a bolt using a different hard drive. So you don't lose any recordings from a bolt when changing hard drives.

As the romio unlike the edge or bolts keep the recordings and settings intact on the hard drive even if you remove it temporarily.


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## robvds (Mar 6, 2011)

mgibpb said:


> I have a Romeo OTA with lifetime service. But my OTA reception has deteriorated lately. I am now on Xfinity streaming but the DVR function sucks. How about if we swap our unit and. The only cost would be the shipping.


Have you changed your coax cable from the antenna? They deteriorate over the years. Are you using an amplifier?


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## robvds (Mar 6, 2011)

CopRock said:


> They never should have existed in the first place unless you got the guide data for free


what is this ad rolling I see referenced here?


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

robvds said:


> what is this ad rolling I see referenced here?



That's if you are running hydra or te4 and have not called tivo to opt out.

With te3 you don't have to worry about that


robvds said:


> Have you changed your coax cable from the antenna? They deteriorate over the years. Are you using an amplifier?





robvds said:


> Have you changed your coax cable from the antenna? They deteriorate over the years. Are you using an amplifier?


Order a bolt from weaknees and the 4 tuner version it works with either Cable or antenna.

Here is the link to weaknees includes the lifetime service. And the choices are a 1tb or 2tb.

But check all antenna connections.

Just don't upgrade it to hydra and if it running hydra roll it back using the rollback procedure which is one of the forums 

Here is the link to weaknees.

Also it looks like since it includes the vox remote you will need to roll it back or have weeknees do it for you, do not get the Ota only model of the bolt as it cannot be rolled back, 

You will want to order the version that works with either Cable or antenna and I recomend either the 1tb or 2tb version not the 500 gig version.






TiVo Bolt DVRs


TiVo DVRs, remotes, upgrades, parts, and repairs for all TiVo, DIRECTV, Bolt, Roamio, Premiere and other DVR models.




www.weaknees.com


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Steve said:


> Good points, but depends what other usability features may be important to you. E.g, an OTA Bolt allows you to watch Netflix and Prime in 4k. It also allows you to stream recordings to mobile devices, in-home or out. And you can remotely manage recordings and OnePasses from those same devices. The Edge too, if you can find a 4-tuner model.


Apps on Tivos are abysmal, doesn't matter what platform. Use sticks or your TV apps.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

slowbiscuit said:


> Apps on Tivos are abysmal, doesn't matter what platform. Use sticks or your TV apps.


Not my experience. I get 4k UHD and DolbyVision with Netflix and Prime on my Edge. Same quality as those apps on my 2019 Sony XBR. I like having my Netflix and Prime series viewing queued up via one-passes on the My Shows list. YMMV.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

dianebrat said:


> The issue being the Tivo ecosystem is one of the crappiest streaming sources out there, it lags far behind 90% of the 4K streaming sticks that cost under $50.
> Tivo never invested in their app ecosystem and it shows,


Agree with you and Slowbiscuit there aren't nearly enough apps, but for the two I use the most, Prime and Netflix, I find it convenient to search and initiate playback from the TiVo GUI. I heard Acorn's coming too. That's another app we watch a lot.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

slowbiscuit said:


> Apps on Tivos are abysmal, doesn't matter what platform. Use sticks or your TV apps.


I have to disagree with you on the bolt if it's not running hydra and it dues work with 4k.

Romios don't but I like the romio too.

And still use it. And yes the romio was probably the best one housing and fan wize and hard drive wize.

As with the romio you could swap out hard drives and go back and forth without losing any recordings 

But the bolt except for size is far superior and there are ways to keep all settings and back everything up with the bolts as long as you do not run them on hydra.
.and the bolt is far superior at this point to an edge dvr.

As long as you do not get the Ota only model which only runs on hydra like the edge.

The edge dvr is basically like the bolt but just a slightly faster processor but with any edge model they only run on hydra.

Which is bad.

At this point if you have any romio keep it connected like me.

But if you want the option of either Cable or ota.

Get a 4 tuner bolt.

If you care about recording.

As for making a bolt work like a romio that's easy.
As I have done it and with running a desktop size drive mounted externally and mounting a 120 m case fan and powering that also. To keep the drive cool all for less than 250 dollars.

I have run expanded drives in my romio too.

And my series 4.

And I tested hydra from 2018 until January of 2021.

So I know what works and does not work.

The romio dvrs are still decent but are starting to have issues keeping up with the 1gig internet speeds.

As for the bolts you can still make them run as smoothly as the romios did.

As I have done it.

What would be nice is if weaknees would come up with a housing or case more like the romio case size wize. That fits 2 120m by 25 case fans in them with one configured as an intake right near a bracket that holds a desktop size drive and one same size fan configured as an exhaust.

Although the romio case just has like all tivo a small exhaust fan.

Here is a picture of how I modified my bolts

My white one is an example but I have the same configuration on my bolt plus.

And it cost me around 225 dollars to do it myself but I am running an 8tb western digital purple drive.

It would cost a lot less to do the same thing with a red plus 4tb drive or purple drive you just need to use mffs reformator or mffs tools 3 2 both available in separate forums and mount a case fan on top and power the fan externally.

To put it simply you don't have to use a laptop size drive with a bolt.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

gabrielstern said:


> I have to disagree with you on the bolt if it's not running hydra and it dues work with 4k.
> 
> The romio dvrs are still decent but are starting to have issues keeping up with the 1gig internet speeds.


The point is that the streaming apps on Tivo are terrible. Hulu, for example is many years out of date, and others frequently lock up or crash.

I don't understand the point about 1GB internet speeds. No streaming app on earth pulls more that 20 Meg. So unless you still have DSL, I don't see how that's relevant.


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## wblynch (Aug 13, 2003)

Tivo is still the best DVR. But it's the worst streamer. Use the best tool for the job. At least when a $30 Roku becomes obsolete you can just swap it to the newest version in 30 seconds. Don't be a Sisyphus.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

mdavej said:


> The point is that the streaming apps on Tivo are terrible. Hulu, for example is many years out of date, and others frequently lock up or crash.
> 
> I don't understand the point about 1GB internet speeds. No streaming app on earth pulls more that 20 Meg. So unless you still have DSL, I don't see how that's relevant.


1gig internet speeds has to do with the speed that comes through your internet connection.

For example with Comcast my internet plan soeed is 1100 mbs per second.

That's 1gig plus 100 mbs per second upload speed so when you have multiple internet devices connecting to your router and modem it devides up the internet speed which effects how fast your tivo and even your roku can connect 

I know as I measure and check speeds fir example my computer which is state of the art uses about 250 mbs per second and I have tested transfering recordings from my tivo into my computer and copying tivo recordings from one computer drive to another one.

The speed a romio transfers is around 100 megabytes per second the bolt around 250 my series 4 60 megabytes per second.

As for some of the apps I would agree with you.

As I also have a 99 dollar roku that is hardwired meaning I am running it on an ethernet connection and not wifi and yes the roku is much better for just streaming 

With that bieng said I would also agree with you that the edge dvrs and tivo stream devices are junk.

As for the bolt devices they have great processors and are capable of 4k the romios are not.

The app issues you reference with Hulu has nothing to do with the processors themselves but with tivo not keeping things up to date.

Bit I will tell you this the Hulu app and vudu and prime works a lot better on the bolt dvrs vs the romio dvrs 

For those of us that also have audio video receivers that run multi surround systems and do not want to switch constantly between the roku and tivo over a few apps.
.such as Hulu prime or vudu. Or even tubi

Netflix is fine still on the bolt and roku and works the same.

I have not tested Netflix on my romio in 6 months but that is still okay.

Hint maybe your apps are slow because your internet speed is not enough.

Today you need a minimum of 250 to 500 mbs to allow your internet connected devices to work properly plus you need to configure your router properly.

Yet I am dimwit I do not think so.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

No, the Bolt is not a better box than the Roamio. Your opinion is not backed by the whole host of early drive failures in the Bolt because of heat and 2.5" drive usage.

Is it faster? Sure. Runs crappy Tivo apps better? Sure. Is it as reliable and cheap as a lifetime Roamio? Hell no, and that's what is most important because DVRs are dying, go cheap and good enough without having to do dumb mods and the Roamio gives you both.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

slowbiscuit said:


> No, the Bolt is not a better box than the Roamio. Your opinion is not backed by the whole host of early drive failures in the Bolt because of heat and 2.5" drive usage.
> 
> Is it faster? Sure. Runs crappy Tivo apps better? Sure. Is it as reliable and cheap as a lifetime Roamio? Hell no, and that's what is most important because DVRs are dying, go cheap and good enough without having to do dumb mods and the Roamio gives you both.


I know about the drive failures.

That was caused by the western digital blue drives. If you read my earlier posts I mentioned that.

Weaknees ones remove those drives and replaces them with Toshiba laptop drives.

And if you looked at my pictures of my bolts I run desktop drives on them affixed on top with case fans to keep them cool and run the hard drive via a 6 dollar pwm splitter.

So yes the bolt is superior in certain ways if you modify them and don't use the stock hard drives.

But I still like my romio.

Too. Since it does not have the bios flash issue that started with the bolts and has continued with the Edge dvr.

Meaning keep your existing romio and keep it connected to your home network. So you can use it for backups if needed and for extra storage like I do.

Also the bolts weaknees sells do not use the stock hard drives they replace them with Toshiba drives.

And there was a forum here in the tivo comunity that goes into detail about that and recommends the Toshiba laptop drives. Or certain desktop drives such as the purple and red plus drives.

And mount them externally and use a case fan on top to keep them cool.

It also says you should not use any solid state drive in any tivo.

And that includes romios and earlier models.

It's just harder to find even desktop size drives that can work with any tivo.

Also it's recomended to use smr drives and not cmr drives but that is becoming an issue too.

I have Been testing different drives for 2 years.

Just to keep my 4 tivos going.

My red 6tb drive that used to be on top of my bolt I still have and has been reporposed as a back up drive that I tested last year on my series 4 and unlike on my bolt it stayed cool to the touch on my series 4.

And that's how i know which drives can be used with which tivo.

The 6tb iron wolf stayed cool to the touch.

Plugged into my series 4.

And so did my green barracuda.

It's the 8tb I need to test for those 2 models before they will be used in either my romio or series 4.

Hope this clarifies things.

And I encourage you and others to check out other forums for recommendations on hard drives and other things for tivos since the green drives that were in the romios and series 4s are no longer made and were discontinued in 2017.

They have helped me over the years. Get things the way I like.

This also means I have not used stock drives in any of my tivos since 2015.

Except at certain times.

And I am fine with that.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

gabrielstern said:


> So yes the bolt is superior in certain ways if you modify them and don't use the stock hard drives.


Or more importantly given the slow death of DVRs, save your money and get a cheap used lifetime Roamio that you DON'T have to mod. It's the best DVR they made so use it as a DVR and use sticks or TV apps for IPTV. The app issue doesn't change for the Bolt.

Doesn't really matter what you say about drives, the fact that you have to mod the Bolt to make it as reliable as the Roamio is a nonstarter nowadays.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

slowbiscuit said:


> Or more importantly given the slow death of DVRs, save your money and get a cheap used lifetime Roamio that you DON'T have to mod. It's the best DVR they made so use it as a DVR and use sticks or TV apps for IPTV. The app issue doesn't change for the Bolt.
> 
> Doesn't really matter what you say about drives, the fact that you have to mod the Bolt to make it as reliable as the Roamio is a nonstarter nowadays.


Your right in a way but the romio is also running into challenges too now as if a romio is deactivated it can't be reactivated. As tivo will no longer reactivate them either

But even with the romio nowadays it's still finding reliable drives that will work in a romio.

For example just to make a back up and not knowing the challenges with purple drives over 4tbs. And it not bieng labeled corectly as a 7200 rpm drive. I plugged it into the top of my romio and discovered the drive was getting too hot.

So I had to attach book shelf brackets onto the hard drive and hook up a case fan on top which is still there. But unlike with a bolt I can't use the drive in my romio and mount it the same way. As a bolt

And that's why I have been saying.

It's better at this point to get a bolt but keep your romio.

And not deactivate it, even if you do not want to use it any longer for viewing TV. And keep it hooked up to your home network.

The issues which have made me come to this conclusion started in 2017.

After tivo got sold the first time.

It's just one thing after another first with deploying hydra then turning off servers for the series 4,

And not allowing customers to reactivate older TiVo's. Unless it's a bolt

At this point I am just doing what I need to for all my tivos.

I think everyone needs to realize that the old days of tivo and buying the newest models every 3 years and them being better than the previos model and getting lifetime subscriptions on them are gone.

At this point if you have a romio and it's not on a lifetime subscription, it's best to spend the cost to convert it to a lifetime subscription so tivo can't deactivate it by mistake and screw you over. And get a used bolt from weaknees that includes a lifetime subscription.

And just do what it takes to make them work and keep the romio going.

Any tivo models past the bolt are just junk and even with hard drive mods it's still junk.

Just be prepared that the same issue with compatable hard drives is also an issue with the romios and older tivos now too.

And unlike a bolt it's not as simple as mounting a hard drive on top and using a case fan to keep it cool even if it's a 7200 rpm hard drive.

To compensate.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

slowbiscuit said:


> Or more importantly given the slow death of DVRs, save your money and get a cheap used lifetime Roamio that you DON'T have to mod. It's the best DVR they made so use it as a DVR and use sticks or TV apps for IPTV. The app issue doesn't change for the Bolt.
> 
> Doesn't really matter what you say about drives, the fact that you have to mod the Bolt to make it as reliable as the Roamio is a nonstarter nowadays.


Your right in a way but the romio is also running into challenges too now as if a romio is deactivated it can't be reactivated. As tivo will no longer reactivate them either

But even with the romio nowadays it's still finding reliable drives that will work in a romio.

For example just to make a back up and not knowing the challenges with purple drives over 4tbs. And it not bieng labeled corectly as a 7200 rpm drive. I plugged it into the top of my romio and discovered the drive was getting too hot.

So I had to attach book shelf brackets onto the hard drive and hook up a case fan on top which is still there. But unlike with a bolt I can't use the drive in my romio and mount it the same way. As a bolt

And that's why I have been saying.

It's better at this point to get a bolt but keep your romio.

And not deactivate it, even if you do not want to use it any longer for viewing TV. And keep it hooked up to your home network.

The issues which have made me come to this conclusion started in 2017.

After tivo got sold the first time.

It's just one thing after another first with deploying hydra then turning off servers for the series 4,

And not allowing customers to reactivate older TiVo's. Unless it's a bolt

At this point I am just doing what I need to for all my tivos.

I think everyone needs to realize that the old days of tivo and buying the newest models every 3 years and them being better than the previos model and getting lifetime subscriptions on them are gone.

At this point if you have a romio and it's not on a lifetime subscription, it's best to spend the cost to convert it to a lifetime subscription so tivo can't deactivate it by mistake and screw you over. And get a used bolt from weaknees that includes a lifetime subscription.

And just do what it takes to make them work and keep the romio going.

Any tivo models past the bolt are just junk and even with hard drive mods it's still junk.

Just be prepared that the same issue with compatable hard drives is also an issue with the romios and older tivos now too.

And unlike a bolt it's not as simple as mounting a hard drive on top and using a case fan to keep it cool even if it's a 7200 rpm hard drive.

To compensate.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

slowbiscuit said:


> Or more importantly given the slow death of DVRs, save your money and get a cheap used lifetime Roamio that you DON'T have to mod. It's the best DVR they made so use it as a DVR and use sticks or TV apps for IPTV. The app issue doesn't change for the Bolt.
> 
> Doesn't really matter what you say about drives, the fact that you have to mod the Bolt to make it as reliable as the Roamio is a nonstarter nowadays.


Your right in a way but the romio is also running into challenges too now as if a romio is deactivated it can't be reactivated. As tivo will no longer reactivate them either

But even with the romio nowadays it's still finding reliable drives that will work in a romio.

For example just to make a back up and not knowing the challenges with purple drives over 4tbs. And it not bieng labeled corectly as a 7200 rpm drive. I plugged it into the top of my romio and discovered the drive was getting too hot.

So I had to attach book shelf brackets onto the hard drive and hook up a case fan on top which is still there. But unlike with a bolt I can't use the drive in my romio and mount it the same way. As a bolt

And that's why I have been saying.

It's better at this point to get a bolt but keep your romio.

And not deactivate it, even if you do not want to use it any longer for viewing TV. And keep it hooked up to your home network.

The issues which have made me come to this conclusion started in 2017.

After tivo got sold the first time.

It's just one thing after another first with deploying hydra then turning off servers for the series 4,

And not allowing customers to reactivate older TiVo's. Unless it's a bolt

At this point I am just doing what I need to for all my tivos.

I think everyone needs to realize that the old days of tivo and buying the newest models every 3 years and them being better than the previos model and getting lifetime subscriptions on them are gone.

At this point if you have a romio and it's not on a lifetime subscription, it's best to spend the cost to convert it to a lifetime subscription so tivo can't deactivate it by mistake and screw you over. And get a used bolt from weaknees that includes a lifetime subscription.

And just do what it takes to make them work and keep the romio going.

Any tivo models past the bolt are just junk and even with hard drive mods it's still junk.

Just be prepared that the same issue with compatable hard drives is also an issue with the romios and older tivos now too.

And unlike a bolt it's not as simple as mounting a hard drive on top and using a case fan to keep it cool even if it's a 7200 rpm hard drive.

To compensate.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

slowbiscuit said:


> Or more importantly given the slow death of DVRs, save your money and get a cheap used lifetime Roamio that you DON'T have to mod. It's the best DVR they made so use it as a DVR and use sticks or TV apps for IPTV. The app issue doesn't change for the Bolt.
> 
> Doesn't really matter what you say about drives, the fact that you have to mod the Bolt to make it as reliable as the Roamio is a nonstarter nowadays.


Your right in a way but the romio is also running into challenges too now as if a romio is deactivated it can't be reactivated. As tivo will no longer reactivate them either

But even with the romio nowadays it's still finding reliable drives that will work in a romio.

For example just to make a back up and not knowing the challenges with purple drives over 4tbs. And it not bieng labeled corectly as a 7200 rpm drive. I plugged it into the top of my romio and discovered the drive was getting too hot.

So I had to attach book shelf brackets onto the hard drive and hook up a case fan on top which is still there. But unlike with a bolt I can't use the drive in my romio and mount it the same way. As a bolt

And that's why I have been saying.

It's better at this point to get a bolt but keep your romio.

And not deactivate it, even if you do not want to use it any longer for viewing TV. And keep it hooked up to your home network.

The issues which have made me come to this conclusion started in 2017.

After tivo got sold the first time.

It's just one thing after another first with deploying hydra then turning off servers for the series 4,

And not allowing customers to reactivate older TiVo's. Unless it's a bolt

At this point I am just doing what I need to for all my tivos.

I think everyone needs to realize that the old days of tivo and buying the newest models every 3 years and them being better than the previos model and getting lifetime subscriptions on them are gone.

At this point if you have a romio and it's not on a lifetime subscription, it's best to spend the cost to convert it to a lifetime subscription so tivo can't deactivate it by mistake and screw you over. And get a used bolt from weaknees that includes a lifetime subscription.

And just do what it takes to make them work and keep the romio going.

Any tivo models past the bolt are just junk and even with hard drive mods it's still junk.

Just be prepared that the same issue with compatable hard drives is also an issue with the romios and older tivos now too.

And unlike a bolt it's not as simple as mounting a hard drive on top and using a case fan to keep it cool even if it's a 7200 rpm hard drive.

To compensate.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

gabrielstern said:


> Your right in a way but the romio is also running into challenges too now as if a *romio is deactivated it can't be reactivated. As tivo will no longer reactivate them either*


That is incorrect, A Roamio is still considered a current product and can be activated or reactivated.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

dianebrat said:


> That is incorrect, A Roamio is still considered a current product and can be activated or reactivated.


According to another well known user who I have worked with in other forums he stated yesterday in another forum that tivo will no longer reactivate romios either. And will only reactivate bolts and newer. So I was quoting him and I trust what he says on those things

Again on all my tivo's and I have 4 of them I have lifetime subscriptions. As I did not want to deal with tivo accidently deactivating any of my tivo's.

As they have done that to other tivo users.

Who do not have lifetime subscriptions especially tivo users with series 4 tivo's screwing up the hard drives and all kinds of other issues.

If tivo is still dealing with romios and will activate them great but considering the trends with tivo since 2017 I find that doubtful.

But maybe one of these days I will call tivo and check but I have a feeling they will try and push an edge dvr on me. And say we won't reactivate romios either. 

If someone wants to in this forum still go with a romio for Ota usage and does not want to order a bolt from weeknees then i recomend if weeknees sells them still, to at least order another romio that works with both Ota and cable from weeknees if they are still available just understand it's limitations.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

gabrielstern said:


> According to another well known user who I have worked with in other forums he stated yesterday in another forum that tivo will no longer reactivate romios either. And will only reactivate bolts and newer. So I was quoting him and I trust what he says on those things


If this is the case there should be multiple poster here shouting this loudly, a random user in another forum as the only source of something this significant is rare, this would be a significant change that would have a lot of traction.
I'm not saying that it won't eventually happen, but to just have it come up as a side note in a side discussion is very out of character, even for Tivo.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

dianebrat said:


> If this is the case there should be multiple poster here shouting this loudly, a random user in another forum as the only source of something this significant is rare, this would be a significant change that would have a lot of traction.
> I'm not saying that it won't eventually happen, but to just have it come up as a side note in a side discussion is very out of character, even for Tivo.


The user was not random he mentioned it in the forum over the debacle with the whole cox debacle in Rhoad Island yesterday.

I have worked with him in the help my premier is stuck in guided setup forum.

But like most other tivo users I have gotten frustrated too with issues tivo has caused themselves.

By doing things like shutting off servers 

And yes I am aware of the challenges with the bios and wiping hard drives in the bolts and newer devices.

And yes I still like my romio pro too still.

And at least with that I can swap hard drives back and forth without worrying about my hard drive getting wiped out unlike the bolt or edge dvr.

I just want others in this forum and other forums to understand that the good old days are gone.

Of buying the latest tivo model every 3 years and bieng able to choose subscription levels without having to worry about tivo accidently deactivating your subscription.

Or just getting lifetime subscriptions.

Or having hard drives hold up.

As I have taken apart all my tivo's and know what hard drives went in them. 

So when others say get a romio because you don't have to modify them with hard drives.

That's becoming no longer the case too.

That's why I am just like if you have a romio keep them and keep it connected to your home network. And keep them activated with a lifetime subscription 

But get a bolt if you want to cut the cord.

And just mount a decent desktop drive externally because really nowadays that's the only practical thing to do. For recording TV shows even with an antenna

And use a streaming app like fire TV or roku or Amazon fire ect.

2 years ago i would have said yes a romio is still practical but now I am like you need multiple tivos and have to do all this extra work just to have something that works. Without a bunch of things going wrong with any tivo.

And have to test a bunch of different hard drives just to figure out which ones can work in which tivo.

Because the original western digital green drives that were in the romios and earlier tivos are no longer made.

And on top of that hard drives now are getting mislabeled as 5400 rpm drives when they are not that's why I have to heat test them now.

Or in the case of the bolt tivo used western digital blue laptop drives which are notorious for overheating and wearing out. And tivos can not take solid state drives either 

These things I did not have to worry about prior to 2017.

I am hoping you are correct about the romios as far as reactivating romios but given tivo's recent track record I am skeptical given the situation with the series 4s and that romios are considered now legacy tivo's.

Which leads me to believe if you call tivo to try and reactivate a romio they will say they can't and try and push a totaly worthless and junky edge on you.

Thats also why weeknees at this point is the best place to get any bolt and earlier tivo model.

Because they come with the lifetime subscription Included in the price .

That's just now the way it is whether you and I like it or not.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

gabrielstern said:


> ...removed 22 lines out of 22 that were not related to the subject at hand.


Ok, I'll ask for a citation or link to the post where someone is saying Roamio's can't be activated, not 22 lines of unrelated rambling please.


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## wblynch (Aug 13, 2003)

Why the obstinate broken record tirade that only a modified Bolt (from Weaknees) will do? It’s tiresome. I wonder what the OP decided to do?


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

gabrielstern said:


> According to another well known user who I have worked with in other forums he stated yesterday in another forum that tivo will no longer reactivate romios either. And will only reactivate bolts and newer. So I was quoting him and I trust what he says on those things


Your well-known user who you did not identify is wrong.

How to Reactivate TiVo Service


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

gabrielstern said:


> ...Which leads me to believe if you call tivo to try and reactivate a romio they will say they can't and try and push a totaly worthless and junky edge on you.





dianebrat said:


> Ok, I'll ask for a citation or link to the post where someone is saying Roamio's can't be activated, not 22 lines of unrelated rambling please.


I don't really know what is meant by "reactivate", but I "activated" a lifetime Roamio yesterday that I had bought used. Took about 5 minutes via online chat with Tivo support. I think the only Tivos that can't be activated now are really, really old ones, much older than Roamio.

I don't doubt Tivo tries to push the new models on you, but like all marketing tactics ever, just ignore them.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

mdavej said:


> I don't really know what is meant by "reactivate", but I "activated" a lifetime Roamio yesterday that I had bought used. Took about 5 minutes via online chat with Tivo support. I think the only Tivos that can't be activated now are really, really old ones, much older than Roamio.
> 
> I don't doubt Tivo tries to push the new models on you, but like all marketing tactics ever, just ignore them.


That's a transfer, the poster is implying that if you were to buy or receive a Roamio that did not have Lifetime, you could not sign it up for a new monthly, yearly, or lifetime service.
Currently Tivo will only activate or let you add new service on an non-account holding Tivo at the Roamio or higher level, if you have a Premier or lower without active service, you can not add service to it.

So far every service level drop Tivo has made has been communicated clearly, and in advance of its target date to allow people the ability to plan around it, I would be surprised to hear Roamios being dropped as an active subscription product from some random poster.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

wblynch said:


> Why the obstinate broken record tirade that only a modified Bolt (from Weaknees) will do? It’s tiresome. I wonder what the OP decided to do?


I have no idea, but it's silly to suggest that a 'modified' Bolt is better than a Roamio when you consider the cost vs. features comparison. He's the only person saying that.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> I have no idea, but it's silly to suggest that a 'modified' Bolt is better than a Roamio when you consider the cost vs. features comparison. He's the only person *constantly* saying that.


possible edit there for you


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## Dansktex (Jul 7, 2017)

cwoody222 said:


> For its 20+ year history TiVo has always put out refreshed hardware (with new product marketing name) every few years.
> 
> The fact that they changed the pricing scheme for the Roamio has nothing to do with why they discontinued it for the Bolt, and then the Bolt for the Edge.
> 
> ...


Your reply doesn't even fit what I wrote. The Roamio OTA was more expensive than current models (at about $329), but it included the FREE lifetime Guide. Compared to the prices for their other units with monthly payments for the Guide, it was a real bargain, since their Guide prices have been in the $5-7 a month range during the time since the Roamio OTA was originally sold. I'm still getting free Guide on my Roamio 4-6 years later!! They have lost a lot of money selling it to me and others. What other reason, other than that they want the present $6.99 a month for the Guide, would they have for not selling the new Edge OTA at a higher price with free lifetime Guide? I'm guessing that your response may be motivated by the fact that Tivo really doesn't want anyone to know they used to (and still do to those using the machines) give the Guide free with the Roamio OTA. I will never buy a Tivo with a monthly fee, so when my Roamio goes out, I will either repair it (as I once had to do by replacing the very poor quality fan they originally put in that lasted only about a year), or I will come up with (or create) an alternative way of recording OTA based on a timer that does not require paying for a Guide .


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## wblynch (Aug 13, 2003)

Right now Tivo offers an Edge OTA with lifetime service for $299. It has only two tuners and I guess you can’t roll it back off hydra. The hydra thing kills it for me but you can’t complain about the price (for a factory new unit).

I am of the belief that OTA guides are free, or very cheap, from the broadcasters but TiVo has to pay for cable system guides. I have no evidence for this belief.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

wblynch said:


> I am of the belief that OTA guides are free, or very cheap, from the broadcasters but TiVo has to pay for cable system guides.


Its not just for the guide, Tivo Service is for all capabilities like guide, transfers, apps on the Tivo like Netflix, youtube, etc. (Their subscriptions are extra costs.)


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

wblynch said:


> Right now Tivo offers an Edge OTA with lifetime service for $299. It has only two tuners and I guess you can’t roll it back off hydra. The hydra thing kills it for me but you can’t complain about the price (for a factory new unit).
> 
> I am of the belief that OTA guides are free, or very cheap, from the broadcasters but TiVo has to pay for cable system guides. I have no evidence for this belief.


Yea, you’re wrong.

Tivo gets its guide data from (their parent company), Rovi, and there is a cost involved whether it’s OTA or cable.

Compiling a database of hundreds of national broadcast stations, maintaining it, and updating it daily does, in fact, incur costs.

Those costs, along with the costs of maintaining and updating the TiVo software, are what the TiVo Service fees goes towards.


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## wblynch (Aug 13, 2003)

cwoody222 said:


> Yea, you’re wrong.
> 
> Tivo gets its guide data from (their parent company), Rovi, and there is a cost involved whether it’s OTA or cable.
> 
> ...


I didn’t say there aren’t costs. I said I believe they don’t pay for the OTA guide data.

as for the post about the apps and other features, they are worthless because TiVo never updates them, they are junk to begin with, and TiVo destroyed their program for transferring programs to the pc and back.

Roku doesn’t charge monthly for streaming app support.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

wblynch said:


> TiVo destroyed their program for transferring programs to the pc and back.


Not exactly, I use PyTivo Desktop and the Tivo must be on v20 and below to work. v21/Hydra has it removed.


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## wblynch (Aug 13, 2003)

ThAbtO said:


> Not exactly, I use PyTivo Desktop and the Tivo must be on v20 and below to work. v21/Hydra has it removed.


PyTiVo is not a TiVo program is it? If not then it certainly imposes no cost to TiVo.

I was trying to show why a lifetime plan for OTA devices can be offered for much less than for cable versions. Thus the possibility of buying a new Edge OTA with all-in/lifetime for $299. That might be an attractive option for many users. 

I’m guessing most people aren’t transferring shows to computers, or don’t need 4tb of storage. Most people just want to plug the thing in and delete their recorded shows as soon as they watch them.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

wblynch said:


> PyTiVo is not a TiVo program is it?


It most certainly is for Tivo, downloads and uploads. Written by one of this forum's members.


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## wblynch (Aug 13, 2003)

ThAbtO said:


> It most certainly is for Tivo, downloads and uploads. Written by one of this forum's members.


Yes, not from TiVo. No cost for development, support, or distribution from the TiVo corporation. Therefore not to be considered as part of the Tivo subscription fees. 👍


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

wblynch said:


> I didn’t say there aren’t costs. I said I believe they don’t pay for the OTA guide data.


Again, you’re wrong.

All guide data costs TiVo. Just for the info.

OTA listings are not free.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

wblynch said:


> I was trying to show why a lifetime plan for OTA devices can be offered for much less than for cable versions. Thus the possibility of buying a new Edge OTA with all-in/lifetime for $299. That might be an attractive option for many users.


Because it's a slower volume sales product and they want to move as many as possible, they long ago realized the cord cutters were far more "frugal" than cable subscribers and they want the sales, thus the cord cutter market has a different pricing structure.

It has zero to do with "cost of guide data" or even internal development costs; I seriously doubt they even have any of those anymore, all they do is the occasional patch. I think the dev team was gutted after one of the first post-hydra ownership changes.

Tivo as we know it is a walking corpse, it's been that way for years.


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## wblynch (Aug 13, 2003)

cwoody222 said:


> Again, you’re wrong.
> 
> All guide data costs TiVo. Just for the info.
> 
> OTA listings are not free.


How do you know? Are you on the data collection team?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

wblynch said:


> How do you know? Are you on the data collection team?


Are you?

The only way it would be free is if some very charitable, unpaid volunteer in his basement was collecting it independently and giving it to Tivo. That seems like a very unlikely scenario for a guide data company to be involved in.


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## wblynch (Aug 13, 2003)

I did spend a good part of my career in massive data collection


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## Elliot2 (Dec 15, 2016)

The latest is not the best


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## BrokerDon (Sep 9, 2006)

Steve said:


> FWIW, just checked one of my 4-tuner OTA Edges. ODT of 48. Curious what a 2-tuner Edge runs at.
> 
> View attachment 72543


 My 2 tuner OTA Edge ODT is 44


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## BrokerDon (Sep 9, 2006)

moedaman said:


> Can the 2-tuner Edge use the Tivo Mini? If not, then why did Tivo revert back to a 2-tuner model?


I don't know if our 2-tuner Edge OTA can use the TiVo Mini... but I do know it works fine with our Mini Lux 4K


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

BrokerDon said:


> I don't know if our 2-tuner Edge OTA can use the TiVo Mini... but I do know it works fine with our Mini Lux 4K


No, it can't. Host Tivo must be a 4 tuner, at least.


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## SprintDrive (10 mo ago)

If you watch TV in two rooms, you could get a dual tuner edge OTA for each room and effectively have 4 tuners. Then you would have built in redundancy if one of the Edge's fails.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

SprintDrive said:


> If you watch TV in two rooms, you could get a dual tuner edge OTA for each room and effectively have 4 tuners. Then you would have built in redundancy if one of the Edge's fails.


Q:What's worse than being stuck with a 2-tuner Edge? 
A: Being stuck with 2 of them.. badaboom!


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

SprintDrive said:


> If you watch TV in two rooms, you could get a dual tuner edge OTA for each room and effectively have 4 tuners. Then you would have built in redundancy if one of the Edge's fails.


You would then need 2 Tivo service subscriptions instead of 1.
If you are planning to add Minis, 2 tuners models won't work.
Edges and Bolt tend to fail more often then earlier models, such as Roamio.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

ThAbtO said:


> You would then need 2 Tivo service subscriptions instead of 1.
> If you are planning to add Minis, 2 tuners models won't work.


Currently, the extra sub is only $99, so not outrageous. And if each 2-tuner Edge can stream from the other (needs to be confirmed), it could solve the mini issue, at least for one room.


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## SprintDrive (10 mo ago)

ThAbtO said:


> You would then need 2 Tivo service subscriptions instead of 1.
> If you are planning to add Minis, 2 tuners models won't work.
> Edges and Bolt tend to fail more often then earlier models, such as Roamio.


I was thinking with the $99 sale for all in service, it might make sense. Most failures might be the hard drive or power supply.


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## SprintDrive (10 mo ago)

dianebrat said:


> Q:What's worse than being stuck with a 2-tuner Edge?
> A: Being stuck with 2 of them.. badaboom!


I didn't realize they were so bad. Maybe two dual tuner Premieres and then leverage OTA and Cable at the same time.


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## LarryAtHome (Feb 18, 2008)

wblynch said:


> No cost for development, support, or distribution from the TiVo corporation


TiVo had to develop the software to be able to get TiVo desktop to work. It is only after they developed it that TiVo made the ability for others to write a program to use their feature. I would say TiVo had a large development cost to make their box able to do this feature, even though others used the fruits of their development to write a program to do the same (or more) as TiVo Desktop. If TiVo did not develop Tivo Desktop, there would be no KMTTG or pytivo


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## mtnagel (Nov 15, 2003)

I've haven't read all the posts in this thread, but I need some advice. I'm having pixelation with my Roamio - Pixelation with Roamio OTA only. I've tried a bunch of different things - signal booster, attenuator, LTE filter, removing the splitter, new quad shield cable, a new bigger antenna and attaching the antenna high up on my roof - and the pixelation still persists. I bought a Tablo DVR and I haven't seen any pixelation so far, but the quick play is pretty terrible. You can only move ahead 20 seconds at a time, you can't see what you FF'ing through and you have to hit play every time to start playback**. I'm not sure I can deal with this... I see the Edge OTA has lifetime for $150 off right now and it was assumed that since it only has 2 tuners, that it might have a stronger signal since it's not being split 4 times like the Roamio. I know most in here can't get away with 2 tuners, but for OTA, it would be totally fine for us. Do you all think the Edge would improve my pixelation issues?

**Edit: so now we watched wheel of fortune and it does have a little preview while FF'ing. I wonder if it's because I started the show after it finished recording whereas I started the new while it was recording? Hmmm. Need to play around a bit more.

Edit2: that is the reason. You have to wait till the show is over to get the previews while fast forwarding. That will suck for football for sure. Not really sure what to do here.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Tune to the affected channel on Live TV and look in diagnostics. What is the Signal level and SNR?


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## mtnagel (Nov 15, 2003)

ThAbtO said:


> Tune to the affected channel on Live TV and look in diagnostics. What is the Signal level and SNR?


I mentioned the signal strength in the post I linked to unless you mean something else.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

mtnagel said:


> I mentioned the signal strength in the post I linked to unless you mean something else.


I didn't see the link you had. 
If it was the Fox channel, 85 SNR seems a bit high and Tivo also can pixelate if its too strong. Example is cable being 100% or over and Tivo only goes to 100%
You would hardly seen an OTA Tivo go over 72% as that's about as high as it goes. Putting attenuators in can reduce it but also effects other channels.


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## mtnagel (Nov 15, 2003)

ThAbtO said:


> I didn't see the link you had.
> If it was the Fox channel, 85 SNR seems a bit high and Tivo also can pixelate if its too strong. Example is cable being 100% or over and Tivo only goes to 100%
> You would hardly seen an OTA Tivo go over 72% as that's about as high as it goes. Putting attenuators in can reduce it but also effects other channels.


It was all channels. 98% of the time it was totally fine, but other times it was almost unwatchable. 

The antenna I bought came with an amplifier and when that was turned on, it was worse. I do live close to all the towers (less than 6 miles I think). But the attenuator didn't help. Since it's sporadic, I'm thinking it's a multi-path issue but not really sure.


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## SprintDrive (10 mo ago)

mtnagel said:


> I've haven't read all the posts in this thread, but I need some advice. I'm having pixelation with my Roamio - Pixelation with Roamio OTA only. I've tried a bunch of different things - signal booster, attenuator, LTE filter, removing the splitter, new quad shield cable, a new bigger antenna and attaching the antenna high up on my roof - and the pixelation still persists. I bought a Tablo DVR and I haven't seen any pixelation so far, but the quick play is pretty terrible. You can only move ahead 20 seconds at a time, you can't see what you FF'ing through and you have to hit play every time to start playback**. I'm not sure I can deal with this... I see the Edge OTA has lifetime for $150 off right now and it was assumed that since it only has 2 tuners, that it might have a stronger signal since it's not being split 4 times like the Roamio. I know most in here can't get away with 2 tuners, but for OTA, it would be totally fine for us. Do you all think the Edge would improve my pixelation issues?
> 
> **Edit: so now we watched wheel of fortune and it does have a little preview while FF'ing. I wonder if it's because I started the show after it finished recording whereas I started the new while it was recording? Hmmm. Need to play around a bit more.
> 
> Edit2: that is the reason. You have to wait till the show is over to get the previews while fast forwarding. That will suck for football for sure. Not really sure what to do here.


I think the old Series 3 Tivo is supposed to have a great tuner. It's dual tuner, but no apps. You can probably find one with lifetime service very cheap. But could have issues with the power supply. Or you could try a dual tuner premiere which some say has a weaker tuner than the series 3. You only get 2TB with the edge. I've got an 8TB drive in my dual tuner premiere. I think the S3 can only go up to 1TB of storage. 

You might want to try a splitter and hook one coax directly to your TV and do an A/B comparison of the picture tuned to the same channel.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

SprintDrive said:


> I think the S3 can only go up to 1TB of storage.


2TB.


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## SprintDrive (10 mo ago)

ThAbtO said:


> 2TB.


Oh yes, but I thought it didn't use much more than 1TB when you used a 2TB drive.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

mtnagel said:


> Since it's sporadic, I'm thinking it's a multi-path issue but not really sure.


If there are leafy trees in the signal path, I've found signal quality fluctuates, depending on the season.


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## mtnagel (Nov 15, 2003)

mtnagel said:


> I've haven't read all the posts in this thread, but I need some advice. I'm having pixelation with my Roamio - Pixelation with Roamio OTA only. I've tried a bunch of different things - signal booster, attenuator, LTE filter, removing the splitter, new quad shield cable, a new bigger antenna and attaching the antenna high up on my roof - and the pixelation still persists. I bought a Tablo DVR and I haven't seen any pixelation so far, but the quick play is pretty terrible. You can only move ahead 20 seconds at a time, you can't see what you FF'ing through and you have to hit play every time to start playback**. I'm not sure I can deal with this... I see the Edge OTA has lifetime for $150 off right now and it was assumed that since it only has 2 tuners, that it might have a stronger signal since it's not being split 4 times like the Roamio. I know most in here can't get away with 2 tuners, but for OTA, it would be totally fine for us. Do you all think the Edge would improve my pixelation issues?
> 
> **Edit: so now we watched wheel of fortune and it does have a little preview while FF'ing. I wonder if it's because I started the show after it finished recording whereas I started the new while it was recording? Hmmm. Need to play around a bit more.
> 
> Edit2: that is the reason. You have to wait till the show is over to get the previews while fast forwarding. That will suck for football for sure. Not really sure what to do here.


Just to close to the loop on this, yes, it does appear that the Edge either has better tuners than the Roamio or just having less tuners helps the signal. I posted this in my other thread - Pixelation with Roamio OTA only



mtnagel said:


> Well just to update this for future reference. 2 weeks with the Edge and zero pixelation (except that one time I mentioned above which must have just been a random thing). I sold my Roamio for $200 on ebay so I only paid $100 for the Edge with lifetime since it was only sale for $300. I have also upgraded the antenna and cable so maybe it's a combination of all 3 that finally solved it or just switching to the Edge might have worked. I'm not undoing everything to find out. I'm just happy to have a fully functioning OTA DVR again that actually works well (in my attempt to fix the pixelation, I tried the Amazon Recast and Tablo and both were pretty terrible compared to the Tivo).


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## atebit (1 mo ago)

Agreed, in my case for whatever reason, overall reception is better with the Edge than the Roamio. Channels in my area that kept their VHF Low frequencies are still problematic (due to distance), but still noticeably better on the Edge.


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## jerryez (May 16, 2001)

i have the TiVo Roamio OTA and it records the OTA programs that I watch OK. But, I also have a Dish Hopper 3 with 16 tuners, and never have an overlap problem. More tuners is better! Also, if a footbal game runs over on CBS, the TiVo will cut off the end of the program, while most of the time my Hopper3 will record the entirew program. Dish does much better with updating their guide than TiVo.


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## SprintDrive (10 mo ago)

jerryez said:


> i have the TiVo Roamio OTA and it records the OTA programs that I watch OK. But, I also have a Dish Hopper 3 with 16 tuners, and never have an overlap problem. More tuners is better! Also, if a footbal game runs over on CBS, the TiVo will cut off the end of the program, while most of the time my Hopper3 will record the entirew program. Dish does much better with updating their guide than TiVo.


Tivo has an option to extend the end time of the recording so you don't miss the end of live events that run longer than exepcted.


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