# 2008 WSOP World Series of Poker Spoilers only for Episodes already aired on ESPN



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Been watching weekly on ESPN. Last year made the mistake of looking online and saw the results before the eps aired So far this year I haven't known the results of any of the games before the eps air on ESPN and I hope took keep it that way.

Congrats to Eric Lindgrin for winning his first bracelet this year.

Big thumbs down to Scotty Nguyen in the Chip Reese memorial HORSE game. Didn't there used to be a rule about no profanity at the tables in the WSOP? Guess there isn't this year because Scotty was spewing four letter words all night. Don't see how he can be proud of that performance.


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## flyers088 (Apr 19, 2005)

hummingbird_206 said:


> Been watching weekly on ESPN. Last year made the mistake of looking online and saw the results before the eps aired So far this year I haven't known the results of any of the games before the eps air on ESPN and I hope took keep it that way.
> 
> Congrats to Eric Lindgrin for winning his first bracelet this year.
> 
> Big thumbs down to Scotty Nguyen in the Chip Reese memorial HORSE game. Didn't there used to be a rule about no profanity at the tables in the WSOP? Guess there isn't this year because Scotty was spewing four letter words all night. Don't see how he can be proud of that performance.


I also have an issue with Scotty dumping a pot to keep E Lindgrin in the HORSE tourney when he clearly had the better hand. He was having an issue with the rookie in the tourney but that was a truly amateurish play.:down:


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

You don't know the November Nine already? Wow.. Then don't listen to any poker podcasts. (The Two Plus Two one is great.)


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Nope, no podcasts, no poker websites, nothing except the ESPN broadcasts. It really spoiled it for me last year knowing the results before the eps aired, so this year I'm trying really hard to not know ahead of time.

And yes, Scotty saying he was dumping a pot to Eric was just another in a long list of disgusting items that will keep me from ever rooting for Scotty to win anything. At one point Eric called someone over (the Tournament Director?) and said something to him, but I didn't catch what it was. Probably didn't matter since they didn't warn or discipline Scotty in any way.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

how can you avoid something so major in something you like so much for so long? Don't all of your poker friends talk about it non-stop?


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

scotty is da nutz, anyone not liking scotty isn't cool baby....


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

hummingbird_206 said:


> Big thumbs down to Scotty Nguyen in the Chip Reese memorial HORSE game. Didn't there used to be a rule about no profanity at the tables in the WSOP? Guess there isn't this year because Scotty was spewing four letter words all night. Don't see how he can be proud of that performance.


**** ***** f*!ck baby baby *!&@ (!(@ *@( baby *[email protected] ****** ass*** baby


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## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

hummingbird_206 said:


> At one point Eric called someone over (the Tournament Director?) and said something to him, but I didn't catch what it was.


He complained about the guy who came over to the table to high-five Scotty. That is a no-no. I was very impressed with the young kid. Eric needled him about his constant bows and cheering and he was very professional after that. Scotty was anything but. :down:

RIP Chip Reese


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

jsmeeker said:


> how can you avoid something so major in something you like so much for so long? Don't all of your poker friends talk about it non-stop?


It's tough, but so far I've managed. I don't usually go to great lengths to avoid spoilers on most things. I'll sometimes read the TV show threads here before watching the discussed ep and I watch the previews. It doesn't usually spoil things for me. But for the WSOP last year I knew ahead of time who won what bracelets and it really spoiled the broadcasts for me.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Scotty was an embarrassment to himself and poker. Lindgren was all class. What did he say? "I'm not on Team Scotty. Never have been. Never will be." I was on Team Scotty. I tuned in to enjoy watching him take down the bracelet. But, he lost me. He's a bitter old drunk. Guess he can still play well enough to make a final table, even if he's had to give up cash games (probably a good idea if you're likely to get drunk and chase cards).

And Lindgren leaving Flack hanging with his high five--I think he was embarrassed to know the guy. I've always found Layne Flack to be one of the funniest and most entertaining players on TV poker, but apparently he turns into "that guy" when drunk.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Scotty was an embarrassment to himself and poker. Lindgren was all class. What did he say? "I'm not on Team Scotty. Never have been. Never will be." I was on Team Scotty. I tuned in to enjoy watching him take down the bracelet. But, he lost me. He's a bitter old drunk. Guess he can still play well enough to make a final table, even if he's had to give up cash games (probably a good idea if you're likely to get drunk and chase cards).
> 
> And Lindgren leaving Flack hanging with his high five--I think he was embarrassed to know the guy. I've always found Layne Flack to be one of the funniest and most entertaining players on TV poker, but apparently he turns into "that guy" when drunk.


I just started watching this....haven't reached this point yet. Too bad, 'cuz I'm on Team Scotty, too.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Scotty was an embarrassment to himself and poker. Lindgren was all class. What did he say? "I'm not on Team Scotty. Never have been. Never will be." I was on Team Scotty. I tuned in to enjoy watching him take down the bracelet. But, he lost me. He's a bitter old drunk. Guess he can still play well enough to make a final table, even if he's had to give up cash games (probably a good idea if you're likely to get drunk and chase cards).
> 
> And Lindgren leaving Flack hanging with his high five--I think he was embarrassed to know the guy. I've always found Layne Flack to be one of the funniest and most entertaining players on TV poker, but apparently he turns into "that guy" when drunk.


Did they say on the HORSE telecast that Scotty gave up cash games? If so I missed it probably because several times I hit mute since I was tired of listening to Scotty spew.

And I agree, I've always been a Layne Flack fan, but his behavior was horrible, too.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> Don't all of your poker friends talk about it non-stop?


Heyyyy. I do not.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

scottjf8 said:


> Heyyyy. I do not.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


>


I think I might be going to Vegas in December..


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

scottjf8 said:


> I think I might be going to Vegas in December..


If Smak is there, I know what you guys will be talking about. But maybe it won't be so bad since WSOP isn't going on.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

Just finished watching the HORSE tourney. Wow, Scotty was a complete a-hole. I lost count of how many times he should have been warned (what is the penalty for a violation, anyway?). Lindgren, OTOH, was/has always been a class act.


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## EMoMoney (Oct 30, 2001)

hummingbird_206 said:


> Didn't there used to be a rule about no profanity at the tables in the WSOP?


I know if you dropped the F bomb at the main event you were assessed a 15 minute penalty. I'm not sure if that applies to all events. They really need to outlaw drinking at the table. Scotty screaming for his f**king cocktail was one of the ugliest things I've seen.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

EMoMoney said:


> I know if you dropped the F bomb at the main event you were assessed a 15 minute penalty.


no, not this year, that was last year. this year so long as you weren't using it against another player you were fine.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

pjenkins said:


> no, not this year, that was last year. this year so long as you weren't using it against another player you were fine.


Too bad. I'm not against profanity, I've been known to use the F word myself. But Scotty crossed way over the line.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

Scotty's Apology from Cardplayer Forums



> I would like to apologize to all my fans for the disappointment I have caused in the H.O.R.S.E. Event. For that I would like to express my sincerest apology.
> 
> I would like to ask for understanding of what really took place. Keep in mind this was a five day event, with an almost fourteen hour final table that was reduced to two hours of air time including all the commercial breaks. With that being said, as you can imagine, more took place than what made the final cut for t.v. Last year's Main Event I made the mistake of letting someone get under my skin, of which overtook my mental focus of the game, and cost me my tournament along with a lot of disappointment amongst my fans and peers. Since that time, it has haunted me and even now with the mistake that I made. As a professional, you always critique yourself to make yourself better, and in doing so you have to focus on the mistakes you make, in order to improve. This year, I needed redemption of my own 2007 Main Event demons to prove to myself that no one would get to me again.
> 
> ...


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## Faro (Dec 21, 2001)

I honestly can't tell what he is apologizing for.


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## EMoMoney (Oct 30, 2001)

scottjf8 said:


> Scotty's Apology from Cardplayer Forums


Did anybody else read this and in and hear the voice of Scotty in your head.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

EMoMoney said:


> Did anybody else read this and in and hear the voice of Scotty in your head.


you know it, baby.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

scottjf8 said:


> Scotty's Apology from


Must be a fake.. there's not even one 'baby' there.

(just kidding)


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

Faro said:


> I honestly can't tell what he is apologizing for.


Here's a good recap of his antics


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

scottjf8 said:


> Scotty's Apology from Cardplayer Forums


The way that reads, it's like the first paragraph and the next two sentences were written by Scotty's publicist and then the rest was written by Scotty after he got his f****ng cocktail.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

busyba said:


> The way that reads, it's like the first paragraph and the next two sentences were written by Scotty's publicist and then the rest was written by Scotty after he got his f****ng cocktail.


I was thinking the exact same thing.

I gained a LOT of respect for Lindgren after watching this and lost any respect I had for Scotty.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

I would have been tempted to start calling for the Floor Guy to call him on the language. That was over the top. I am sorry he won. 

Like pmyers, I was impressed by Lindgren, he was playing a great game and didn't appreaciate the drunk. Thought it was pretty funny he left Lane Flack hanging when he left.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Yeah...Flack seemed just as much of as *ss as Scotty was.

I would love to see that entire final table unedited.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Has anybody seen/read a reaction by Lindgren regarding that final table?


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

:up:


pmyers said:


> Has anybody seen/read a reaction by Lindgren regarding that final table?


I haven't, but then, I'm staying away from all stuff that might contain spoilers.

Will be interesting to see (or rather hear) if they make any comments about the HORSE game on tomorrow's telecasts of pot limit Omaha.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Just finished watching the Pot Limit Omaha...not terribly entertaining. Would have been fun to see The Grinder win his first bracelet, but wasn't meant to be for him. 

Kind of distracting how they kept cutting to the $1500 HORSE game to track Hellmouth. I get absolutely no pleasure watching Phil...win or lose he's a jerk. But always glad when he loses.

Glad to see Erick Lindgren is in the lead for player of the year. 

Really happy to see the Main Event telecasts start next week, woo hoo!!


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## EMoMoney (Oct 30, 2001)

hummingbird_206 said:


> Just finished watching the Pot Limit Omaha...not terribly entertaining. Would have been fun to see The Grinder win his first bracelet, but wasn't meant to be for him.
> 
> Kind of distracting how they kept cutting to the $1500 HORSE game to track Hellmouth. I get absolutely no pleasure watching Phil...win or lose he's a jerk. But always glad when he loses.
> 
> ...


Phil is entertaining.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I like Phil. He's one of the people I consider entertaining on TV, but would probably be annoying in real life quickly.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

I glad someone finds Phil entertaining  I find it annoying that he has to keep telling everyone how smart he is and how stupid everyone else is...well, it's all those stupid people who keep beating him! I'm ok with other people enjoying his antics, but I don't.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

mattack said:


> I like Phil. He's one of the people I consider entertaining on TV, but would probably be annoying in real life quickly.


I dislike him intensely. He is, by far, my least favorite "big name" player...


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Four Aces beaten by a Royal Flush...how sick is that? I think I'd slit my wrists if I got 4 Aces and lost the hand.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

hummingbird_206 said:


> Four Aces beaten by a Royal Flush...how sick is that? I think I'd slit my wrists if I got 4 Aces and lost the hand.


Which event? I'm going to have to look for that one on espn2.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Main event. First 2 eps aired tonight. I don't remember if it was the first hour or second one.


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

hummingbird_206 said:


> Four Aces beaten by a Royal Flush...how sick is that? I think I'd slit my wrists if I got 4 Aces and lost the hand.


That was sick. The odds of it happening is astronomical.

I think there should have been a bad beat jackpot.

I was amazed at how well the guy took the beat too.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

Maui said:


> That was sick. The odds of it happening is astronomical.
> 
> I think there should have been a bad beat jackpot.
> 
> I was amazed at how well the guy took the beat too.


It happened on the latest James Bond flick.


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## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

Maui said:


> That was sick. The odds of it happening is astronomical.


On the broadcast they said it was 2.7 billion to 1. Helmuth would have turned the table over if that happened to him. I'm sure he also would be wondering how someone could possibly called him with just a royal flush.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

LifeIsABeach said:


> On the broadcast they said it was 2.7 billion to 1. Helmuth would have turned the table over if that happened to him. I'm sure he also would be wondering how someone could possibly called him with just a royal flush.


I wish they had shown the full progression of that hand so we could have seen how they got there. As far as I could tell, the RF guy flopped nothing and caught runner-runner to make the Royal while the quads guy flopped a set of aces.

I would have liked to have seen how the betting went, because I suspect that even Phil would have had a valid reason for a tantrum in that hand.

Of course, quad-guy probably slowplayed his hand right into the Royal.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

My WSOP fantasy is to have the quad aces against the Royal, and to have had put in a very small amount of money before the river, and then make the perfect read and fold the quads to the Royal's big river bet. 

The fantasy also involves doing it against Phill Hellmouth and folding face up and watching his head explode.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

That's a great dream. Please let me know if it ever becomes reality because I'd pay to see it


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

busyba said:


> I wish they had shown the full progression of that hand so we could have seen how they got there. As far as I could tell, the RF guy flopped nothing and caught runner-runner to make the Royal while the quads guy flopped a set of aces.
> 
> I would have liked to have seen how the betting went, because I suspect that even Phil would have had a valid reason for a tantrum in that hand.
> 
> Of course, quad-guy probably slowplayed his hand right into the Royal.


Royal guy flopped a gutshot. But he turned the straight, and rivered the straight flush.

Don't know how the betting went. Could very easily have been slowplayed on the flop.

-smak-


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

I agree, would have been really fun to see the betting progression of the 4 Aces/Royal hand. Actually, I think it was amazing that they caught any of that hand on camera. It wasn't a featured table and no big names were there that I saw. I wonder how many cameras they use on the first day? There are several thousand players, so gotta be a lot!


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## KevinH121 (Aug 7, 2003)

Ray Romano had recently been seated at that table, that may be why the cameras were around.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

busyba said:


> I wish they had shown the full progression of that hand so we could have seen how they got there. As far as I could tell, the RF guy flopped nothing and caught runner-runner to make the Royal while the quads guy flopped a set of aces.
> 
> I would have liked to have seen how the betting went, because I suspect that even Phil would have had a valid reason for a tantrum in that hand.
> 
> Of course, quad-guy probably slowplayed his hand right into the Royal.


PokerNews.com had a recap of the hand when it happened (if you seek it out, beware there are spoilers for other events)...

Pocket Aces raised to 850 preflop and was called by KJ diamonds from the button (not sure what the blind levels were, but it was still relatively early).
The flop came down Ah-9c-Qd. The flopped set of Aces checked (bad move) and the gutshot checked behind.
Turn came 10d. Now, KJ had the nuts with the second-nut flush draw and a royal flush draw. Aces bet 1,600 and the straight called.
River came Ad. Quads bet 2,500...Royal raised to 8,500...Quads splashed the pot, going all-in...Snap call from Royal.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Thanks for the recap. Interesting. 

And thanks for the spoiler warning reokernews.com. I've not visited it in months. I've still managed to remain in the dark regarding the November 9.  It's a miracle and I still hope to keep it that way!


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Cool. Thanks.

Slow play is no play.


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## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

I think most poker pros would have slow-played trip aces in that spot. Turned out to be a bad move, but is not really a bad move.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

getbak said:


> Quads splashed the pot, going all-in


was it this guy?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

LifeIsABeach said:


> I think most poker pros would have slow-played trip aces in that spot. Turned out to be a bad move, but is not really a bad move.


I know that theoretically it's a good move, but I can't ever recall a time where slowplaying aces or a set of aces was ever not a disaster.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

The best hand his opponent could have had on that flop would be the TJ of one of the board suits.

That would put him around 14&#37; or so. And that's only with those 2 exact cards.

With KJ of one of the suits, which he had, it's like 1/2 that.

Anything else, and we're looking like 5% or less.

So, if you're ever going to slow play a hand, that's pretty much where you're going to do it.

I don't think playing a straight, i have a good hand bet, i have a bad hand fold game is going to beat 6000+ players.

-smak-


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

smak said:


> I don't think playing a straight, i have a good hand bet, i have a bad hand fold game is going to beat 6000+ players.


I play live money games, not tournaments, so I guess there a difference in perspective there also.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

busyba said:


> I know that theoretically it's a good move, but I can't ever recall a time where slowplaying aces or a set of aces was ever not a disaster.


Isn't the saying something like "With aces, you'll win a little, or lose a lot."?


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

busyba said:


> I know that theoretically it's a good move, but I can't ever recall a time where slowplaying aces or a set of aces was ever not a disaster.


I have lost much more with ace's by slowplaying. I generally just want to push all the callers out so I am not going up against a 2, 7 boat or something silly like that.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Mike the Mouth Matusow and the Power of Positive thinking, who ever would have thought? But it seems to be working for him. First time I've ever watched Mike and been able to leave the volume on. Usually he's almost as annoying as Phil Hellmuth and I have to mute most of the broadcast.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

Watching Hour 1 right now. Can we please see hands other than someone flopping a set against an overpair?

Also the best part is Moneymaker calling off a big 3-bet shove with AQ, and going "at worst I'm racing."

Sure you are, especially if the guy has AA, KK, or AK. LOL.

(btw nh Chris)


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

Chuck Liddell made me laugh. Seems like every home game has a guy like him. Doesn't know how to play but will make a enough hands then drop his dough. Really frustrating to play against, since he can't even tell when he was winning.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

hummingbird_206 said:


> Mike the Mouth Matusow and the Power of Positive thinking, who ever would have thought? But it seems to be working for him. First time I've ever watched Mike and been able to leave the volume on. Usually he's almost as annoying as Phil Hellmuth and I have to mute most of the broadcast.


That's funny.. I think Phil's the most entertaining player, and Matusow is slightly below him. (On the same line of annoying vs entertaining, Tony G used to be at the bottom of that scale.. based upon the first one or two shows I saw him on. Then even he mellowed out.)

That's not to say I wouldn't attack back at Matusow if he started calling me a donkey.

BTW, did Moneymaker lose a lot of weight? He still is a big guy, but not VERY big. and no, I'm not confusing him with Raymer, who is still very big.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

They didn't talk about Chris losing weight, but I also thought it looked like he did. They did have a clip about The Mouth losing weight.


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## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

I am starting to like Joe Hachem (sp) less and less. First he got really lucky on the river where he would have been severely crippled. He even said something like: "If I start whining later on please remind me of this hand". Then spent the rest of the session whining.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

LifeIsABeach said:


> I am starting to like Joe Hachem (sp) less and less. First he got really lucky on the river where he would have been severely crippled. He even said something like: "If I start whining later on please remind me of this hand". Then spent the rest of the session whining.


I am there with you. I don't think he is dealing well with the expectations of a prior champion. He doesn't seem to have done that well this year, at least he wasn't on any of the other WSOP episodes. So many just feels self concious. I liked him the year he won, and the next year when he did pretty well. Just seems a little bitter and cocky. A few extra million might do that to you.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

I think Aussie, Aussie, Aussie has gotten a bit tiresome. There are some players I just can't stand (Hellmouth forever, and now Scotty, in particular) but there are others that I just tired of seeing (and mostly hearing.) 

But I also think a lot of it has to do with the Reality Show mentality of the footage they decide to show. Just as with Survivor, TAR, etc. I think that they edit the shows to make us like or dislike certain players and to create controversy and create a story where there really isn't any.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

If I filled a tube sock with WSOP tournament chips and beat Norman Chad to death with it, would a Vegas jury convict me?


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

hachem has always been a major dooosh at the table.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

busyba said:


> If I filled a tube sock with WSOP tournament chips and beat Norman Chad to death with it, would a Vegas jury convict me?


Am I the only one who think's he's funny? I loved the bit that Erick Lindgren did when there was an Italian guy sitting next to him (1st Day 1 of the ME?). He kept trying to describe Chad to the guy, and he had no clue who he was talking about.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

mcb08 said:


> Am I the only one who think's he's funny? I loved the bit that Erick Lindgren did when there was an Italian guy sitting next to him (1st Day 1 of the ME?). He kept trying to describe Chad to the guy, and he had no clue who he was talking about.


I really think he is funny. The players wouldn't do bits with them if they didn't like him.

The WSOP duo has the most entertaining poker commentary.. To me at least. Normans commentary keeps me laughing. Love the dissing of bad hats and clothing.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

mcb08 said:


> Am I the only one who think's he's funny? I loved the bit that Erick Lindgren did when there was an Italian guy sitting next to him (1st Day 1 of the ME?). He kept trying to describe Chad to the guy, and he had no clue who he was talking about.


I mostly enjoy him, too. And yes, the Lindgren description was pretty funny. The hockey goalie bit with Daniel was funny, too. Once in a while Norman does get on my nerves a bit, but overall I think he and Lon do a good job and make a good team.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

mcb08 said:


> Am I the only one who think's he's funny?


Yes.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I have defended him before. I think he's funny in a "I like to hear his bad jokes for a few months every year."

It did make me wonder about how they actually make the show though. I do know that WPT has the announcers there live but they do (I suspect) a LOT of the stuff in post production. Vince Van Patten wouldn't give out too much info when he was on the Rounders/Two Plus Two poker podcast.

But for the WSOP broadcast.. I presume that they just get the edited shows, then watch them, write a script.. then record it.

I mean, WPT does presumably the same thing, but I would call it a *lot* more prepared/reading a script than WPT. Then, they have a lot more material than WPT.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

For the WPT, they only do basic stuff live. They have no access to the hole cards until well after the tourney is played out.

The WSOP, they do nothing live. The studio you see Lon and Norman in is in ESPN's sound stages. During the WSOP I've seen them both walking around, taking notes, talking to players.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

I'm a few weeks behind (as usual) so I just noticed the problem this weekend, but was there some sort of issue with the first episode on September 2? This was the first Main Event episode, I believe. It did not record on any of my receivers. At first I thought maybe it had to do with the season premiere of "Bones" which is higher on my list, but for one thing I don't know of anything else that recorded that night to bump WSOP to third, and it also did not record on my one receiver where it is #1 on my priority list. It's too late now to catch it in repeats, too. So just sorta curious if it was just me or what.

I'm also bummed that I didn't watch the event Grant Hinkle won (aired on 7/29). This was the $1,500 buy-in event with the largest non-Main Event field ever. It got cut off because they interrupted it to show an in-progress 9th-inning no hitter (that didn't hold up). Hinkle re-raises all-in pre-flop with 10-4 vs. Akenhead's A-K and the recording gets cut off right after Akenhead makes the call. I knew Hinkle had won but didn't know about the hand he won on. After I realized I wasn't going to find a repeat any time soon, I read the recap online. Flop came 10-10-4, then he made quad 10's on the turn to clinch it.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

scottjf8 said:


> For the WPT, they only do basic stuff live. They have no access to the hole cards until well after the tourney is played out.
> 
> The WSOP, they do nothing live. The studio you see Lon and Norman in is in ESPN's sound stages. During the WSOP I've seen them both walking around, taking notes, talking to players.


Yeah, they do a decent job on WPT of giving the illusion that it's all live, since they do occasionally interact with the players during the tournament.

I was standing right next to Norman Chad while checking in to my hotel on June 25th, well after the WSOP had started. At first I was thinking about this whole question and was thinking that they're really faking the real-time aspect of it since he was just arriving almost 4 weeks into the WSOP. But obviously after seeing him during the bracelet presentations and post-tourney interviews for the early June events, he had either left Vegas and returned or just changed hotels or whatever.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

jeff125va said:


> I was standing right next to Norman Chad


And you let him live!??!


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Today's shows are the first session of day 2 of the main event. Not much exciting in the first hour, but some fun hands. Notable knockout: Scotty Nguyen is gone.

Edit, second hour, also out are Eric Lindgren and Barry Greenstein


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

mcb08 said:


> Am I the only one who think's he's funny? I loved the bit that Erick Lindgren did when there was an Italian guy sitting next to him (1st Day 1 of the ME?). He kept trying to describe Chad to the guy, and he had no clue who he was talking about.


I laugh when he says things, but I think it's more at him than at his actual jokes. Maybe a little of both. I used to love his Friday NFL prognostication column, so I had a favorable opinion of him before I ever watched him on WSOP. I read it in the Washington Post but it may have been syndicated, I was never really sure.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Just finished watching today's ep's. I just didn't finding these shows very interesting or entertaining. Usually I like Phil Laak, but today he was just annoying. It seemed like there was more talking than poker playing at all of the tables that they showed. Maybe I just wasn't in the mood to watch poker.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

I swear to god, he kills a kitten everytime Jerry Yang calls himself "The Champ"

So freaking annoying.


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## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

Sorry to see Howard Lederer "report to the rail". He is one of my favorite players. I wish he would make a run deep into the Main Event one of these years.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

LifeIsABeach said:


> Sorry to see Howard Lederer "report to the rail". He is one of my favorite players. I wish he would make a run deep into the Main Event one of these years.


He made the final table once, but it was a few years ago.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

LifeIsABeach said:


> Sorry to see Howard Lederer "report to the rail". He is one of my favorite players. I wish he would make a run deep into the Main Event one of these years.


i think he ate a whale, he's back to being heavy howard.


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

scottjf8 said:


> I swear to god, he kills a kitten everytime Jerry Yang calls himself "The Champ"
> 
> So freaking annoying.


Yeah, I find him to be the most annoying poker personality. Yes, more annoying than the many many other annoying poker personalities. He wants to project himself as a humble, nice, family man. But if you listen to what he actually says and how he says it, he's an ego manic and is always giving backhanded compliments.

I would rather have my jerks admit they are jerks and not try to hide behind some fake nice-guy persona.


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

hummingbird_206 said:


> Just finished watching today's ep's. I just didn't finding these shows very interesting or entertaining. Usually I like Phil Laak, but today he was just annoying. It seemed like there was more talking than poker playing at all of the tables that they showed. Maybe I just wasn't in the mood to watch poker.


Phil was playing so soft. He was letting everyone on the table bully him. Good examples was when he folded that Jack on the flop. Another is letting that guy make his straight. He shouldn't have let that guy even see the flop.


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

Magister said:


> Chuck Liddell made me laugh. Seems like every home game has a guy like him. Doesn't know how to play but will make a enough hands then drop his dough. Really frustrating to play against, since he can't even tell when he was winning.


I hate the Chuck Liddells in my home games. It seems like they will lose 9/10 hands but the one hand they win is against me.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I liked Phil on this week's show.

Since they showed more detail on the makeup he previously wore, I can't imagine how NOBODY mentioned it to him -- it looked SO utterly fake. It wasn't anywhere near the color of his skin. With all of the stunts Hellmuth has pulled, I don't think someone would be too shy to mention someone wearing makeup (out of fear it was the person's true looks).


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

LifeIsABeach said:


> On the broadcast they said it was 2.7 billion to 1. Helmuth would have turned the table over if that happened to him. I'm sure he also would be wondering how someone could possibly called him with just a royal flush.


Just got around to dowloading this episode on iTunes and watching it, still not sure why it didn't record on any of my DVR's... anyway... it got cut off right in the middle of Lon talking about the odds of that... did he say if that is just for Quad Aces vs. a Royal Flush, or any quads vs. any straight flush? (At least James Bond didn't make it as unlikely as this was.) And I think that would have to be calculated for a given number of players at the table as well, correct?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

You mean your purchased one cut off? Ask for a refund.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

mattack said:


> You mean your purchased one cut off? Ask for a refund.


Yeah, I "reported a problem." Apparently it has affected a lot of the episodes. Most of the reviews for the series are complaints about the episodes being cut off. The first two Main Event episodes aren't even listed any more, and the rest of them (the Main Event eps) are all around 36-38 minutes instead of around 42. Maybe they're working on fixing them? Hopefully I'll at least get a refund or they'll get them fixed and back on there. I think most of the preliminary event episodes looked like the right length, around 42 minutes or so.

EDIT: Got the refund. No word on when/if the problem will be corrected, other than they're "investigating" it. I'm sure they've received a number of complaints, so hopefully it will be.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Watching the first hour and the funniest River card I've ever seen is the 7 that knocked out Jean Robert. ROTFLMAO. JR thought he had it won and had to be told that a 7 would make the straight...and then there it was, 7 on the River. Oh God, the only thing that would have been better was if it had been Hellmouth instead of JR.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

"He called me with a Queen-Ten honey. F***ing internet player."










How does he not get a penalty for calling the guy a "F'ing idiot"?


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

busyba said:


> "He called me with a Queen-Ten honey. F***ing internet player."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They have been ignoring a lot this year unless there is an offended player. 2 Years ago they went overboard with penalties. They might swing a little more tough next year in my opinion.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Magister said:


> They have been ignoring a lot this year unless there is an offended player. 2 Years ago they went overboard with penalties. They might swing a little more tough next year in my opinion.


I thought the rule this year was that they weren't going to penalize cursing in general, only cursing done towards a player.

I guess the distinction was that Phil was speaking to no one in particular and said "*this* f'n idiot" as opposed to talking to the guy and saying "*you* f'n idiot."

The "f'n northern european" line was funny though.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

Hellmuth proves once again why he's a grade A dooooooshbag. I hope to never sit at a table with that arsehole.


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## ruexp67 (Jan 16, 2002)

pjenkins said:


> Hellmuth proves once again why he's a grade A dooooooshbag. I hope to never sit at a table with that arsehole.


I would want to sit with him for JUST that reason. 

I know they edit the game to present the more interesting/dramatic hands so when Phil had to show down his J/4 off I wasn't sure how long it was before the guy called him with q/10. Glad another player mentioned it to him.

"They don't respect my raises."

Yeah, no shiznit, Sherlock. You raise with j/4!


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

Oh man, that QT hand was awesome.

Jenkins, if you haven't watched, the villan in question was Roothlus. Not a guy I'd ever consider a poker idiot. Granted, he's no Rizen


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

Everyone wants to put a bad beat on Phil just for the sideshow. I don't respect the man but I really respect his talent because I think it is harder for him to wade through the novices than it is for any other pro.


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## ruexp67 (Jan 16, 2002)

laststarfighter said:


> I think it is harder for him to wade through the novices than it is for any other pro.


Only because he MAKES it more difficult. Look at Alan Cunningham. He just keeps his mouth shut and plays the game. Phil should take some notes.


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

laststarfighter said:


> Everyone wants to put a bad beat on Phil just for the sideshow. I don't respect the man but I really respect his talent because I think it is harder for him to wade through the novices than it is for any other pro.


Of course he brought that on himself. And I think it is intentional and planned. Everyone wants to put a beat on him. It is a lot easier to win when everyone wants to take a shot at you. It means he gets lots of action and he is good enough to pick which action to take. Of course it doesn't always work. But I think it works a lot more than it doesn't.

I am not defending Phil at all. I am as sick of him as anyone. But I think he does what he does for the purpose of furthering his game. He wants all these people trying to put a bad beat on him. Odds are in his favor that they will not succeed.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

I agree with the senator from Marion, OH.

There's no doubt Phil is one of the greatest tournament HE players around. 11 holdem bracelets can't be wrong.

He is also very tight. Which is why raising with J4 from early position will work for him lots of the time.

His analysis of the QT hand was totally wrong... from the looks of it, Roothlus (Adam Levy) was on the button. With a stack, I call a raise on the button with QTs almost 100&#37; of the time there. Implied odds are just crazy there.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

ruexp67 said:


> I would want to sit with him for JUST that reason.


Me too. I want to sit down and just randomly and constantly berate him about anything and everything. Even if he makes a good play, I'll just illogically argue that it wasn't. I won't care about what I'm saying; I'm just trying to piss him off.

Basically, I want to do the real life equivalent to trolling to Phil. I think that would be so much fun. It would make for great television too. I bet ESPN2 would have an entire one hour episode of just clips from our table.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

scottjf8 said:


> With a stack, I call a raise on the button with QTs almost 100% of the time there.


Yeah, but you're just an effing idiot internet player. Are you from Northern Europe too?


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

busyba said:


> Yeah, but you're just an effing idiot internet player. Are you from Northern Europe too?


Ya know, personal attacks like this get people banned 

And yup, internet player. But I do well. Do well live also.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

But is Phil really like that when he's not on TV? A friend of mine was at a table once with Matusow for several hours and said that he was nothing at all like we see him on TV.


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## EMoMoney (Oct 30, 2001)

Was there any mention of Raymer this year?


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I would guess Helmuth is like he is on TV, and Matusow isn't, unless somebody he knows is at the table.

Helmuth's logic on who he berates is strange. It's like, only call me when you're ahead and will bust me.

-smak-


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

jeff125va said:


> But is Phil really like that when he's not on TV? A friend of mine was at a table once with Matusow for several hours and said that he was nothing at all like we see him on TV.


i should clarify a bit. i'd never want to sit with Phil in a real 10k buy-in tourny setting - ever.

i'd love to play poker with him in a home game or something. and one person i know that actually knows phil says he's a great guy that she really likes and enjoys playing with (of course, she's better than phil, so she probably just wants his chips )


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

My biggest issue with Phil is that he calls people idiots. I have no problem with him thinking he's the best player in the room. In most rooms, yeah, he probably is the best player. Having a big ego is what makes most professional "sports" players successful. They have to have confidence in their own ability and believe they can beat everyone else. I get that. But being good doesn't give him the right to call everyone else stupid. 

Phil can dish it out but he can't take it. He can make 'bad' raises, and he's a genius when he does it and is successful, but everyone else is an idiot when they do it. Luck is a part of poker. If he would stand up and yell that someone got lucky and beat him, fine, I'd be ok with that. It's calling people idiots that I find unacceptable.


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## ruexp67 (Jan 16, 2002)

scottjf8 said:


> His analysis of the QT hand was totally wrong... from the looks of it, Roothlus (Adam Levy) was on the button. With a stack, I call a raise on the button with QTs almost 100% of the time there. Implied odds are just crazy there.


Only ALMOST?  I think I am calling that 100% of the time, and would have been ALMOST tempted into raising given that it was Phil Helmuth and his last raise was with J/4 off. 

The best part is that if you relayed the situation to Phil with the roles reversed, he's gonna make the SAME call.


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## ruexp67 (Jan 16, 2002)

hummingbird_206 said:


> Phil can dish it out but he can't take it. He can make 'bad' raises, and he's a genius when he does it and is successful, but everyone else is an idiot when they do it. Luck is a part of poker. If he would stand up and yell that someone got lucky and beat him, fine, I'd be ok with that. It's calling people idiots that I find unacceptable.


If you are driving down the highway, everyone going faster than you is a maniac, and everyone driving slower is a moron. Phil takes that philosopy to the Nth degree, and applies it to Poker.

That said, I agree with you. If I had been the "F'ing Northern European" I would have called the floor over for a penalty on Phil.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

hummingbird_206 said:


> Luck is a part of poker.


"If it wasn't for luck, I would win them all." --Phill Hellmuth.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

pjenkins said:


> (of course, she's better than phil, so she probably just wants his chips )


Where's her 11 bracelets, or tons of money won?


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

mattack said:


> Where's her 11 bracelets, or tons of money won?


just one bracelet, and over 3mil$ in total career earnings - and she's only 19...

give her some time


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

I've only viewed the first hour of this week's shows so far, but sooooo glad it's the last hour I'll have to see and hear Hellmuth! Good bye Poker Brat. I can't believe they assessed a penalty on him and somehow he won an appeal and didn't have to sit out any hands. That's just wrong. Was glad to see he apologized to the guy he called an idiot, but still think he should have served the penalty. 

Kinda glad to see The Mouth doing well. He can be pretty entertaining at times. No one else that I can think of at the moment that I'm rooting for.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

The third guy to bad beat Hellmouth with QTo should have turned his cards up when Phil folded. I'm pretty sure Phil would have had a stroke.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

busyba said:


> The third guy to bad beat Hellmouth with QTo should have turned his cards up when Phil folded. I'm pretty sure Phil would have had a stroke.


Oh yeah, that would have been priceless!


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

pjenkins said:


> just one bracelet, and over 3mil$ in total career earnings - and she's only 19...
> 
> give her some time


Don't you have to be 21 to gamble in Vegas?


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

JFriday said:


> Don't you have to be 21 to gamble in Vegas?


Her bracelet is from the WSOP Europe in London last year. 18 Years old there.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Anybody speak Russian? Losev must have said something bad since they bleeped him. And I can't believe they allowed that balk (yeah, I know, string bet) That was just wrong. I'm not at all impressed with the rules enforcement, or rather, lack of enforcement, in this tournament.

Sorry to see The Mouth crying like a little girl. Tough way to go out though.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

JFriday said:


> Don't you have to be 21 to gamble in Vegas?


yep


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

Last week when Phil was *****ing about the guy slow rolling, one of the officials was saying how it was poor form of the slow roller. Phil has been an ass the whole event and the judge dude was going to say that? What a fat ass... At least it isn't a judged sport where they can call a point by a line or foul call. Phil would win with these judges just falling all over him.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

I'm so glad Hellmouth is out. That guy is so repulsive...


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## EMoMoney (Oct 30, 2001)

I was actually hoping Phil would make the final table.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

EMoMoney said:


> I was actually hoping Phil would make the final table.


...and then lose to QTo.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

hummingbird_206 said:


> Anybody speak Russian? Losev must have said something bad since they bleeped him. And I can't believe they allowed that balk (yeah, I know, string bet) That was just wrong. I'm not at all impressed with the rules enforcement, or rather, lack of enforcement, in this tournament.
> 
> Sorry to see The Mouth crying like a little girl. Tough way to go out though.


I don't know what was worse -- the first official upholding the dealer's ruling, or the subsequent appeal to a higher-up that was also denied. Everyone at the table should have started doing that on _every_ hand to show them how stupid the ruling was. And what was with the apparent meltdown by Losev after that? It almost seemed like he wanted to lose (went all-in w/ 83h to bust out).


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

I think that ruling was an absolute joke. Forward motion is action, even if he doesn't release the chips.

I can't believe Brandon didn't raise there with a full boat.


----------



## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

And the fact that they couldn't make up their minds why it was ok. Not forward motion? Didn't push it out past the button? Didn't release the chips?

I think that Brandon was too frazzled to think about shoving...cuz that was definitely an auto shove at that point. If Losev had JJ, he would have shoved (maybe on the turn, river for sure).


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Yeah, that was a horrible ruling but the guy should have shoved all his chips in regardless.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Now I know the November 9 so guess I can visit the poker sites again. Thanks to everyone for not posting any spoilers here.

Sorry that there won't be a woman at the final table, but not sorry to see Tiffany go. She's been a real jerk. I couldn't believe she called a clock on Snead when she wasn't even in the hand. That was just bad.

Wow, what a beat Demidov put on Rheem when he got the flush on the turn to beat Chino's trip 10's. That was sick. But honestly, I can't believe Rheem is still around. He's had so many crazy hands.

I think I'll be rooting for Phillips. He just seems like such a nice guy and he's the chip leader! Plus I was a Cards fan when I was a kid, so gotta go with the hat! But Demidov isn't far behind so could be very entertaining!


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

Hummingbird - I was with you as not knowing who made it. It was actually much more fun. I had heard the names a while back, but since I only knew of Chino, I forgot who made it. So I made sure the last few weeks not to look.

I was really rooting for Dean Hamrick - he's from Michigan, like me, and partly because of his handicap. He just ran so bad, getting QQ beaten by AQ like that, then running AJ (semi-strong in that spot) into QQ. Meh!

I was saying the same thing about Tiffani. What a stupid move to call clock on him.. idiotic.

I am probably rooting for Dennis Phillips also, and maybe Kelly Kim - gotta love the shortstack.


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## TiVo Bum (Nov 6, 2004)

hummingbird_206 said:


> Sorry that there won't be a woman at the final table, but not sorry to see Tiffany go. She's been a real jerk. I couldn't believe she called a clock on Snead when she wasn't even in the hand. That was just bad.


Everybody at the table seemed to be giving her crap about it. If she had done that to me, I'd be calling the clock on her everytime I had the chance just because it's "my right". I sorta liked her up until the last couple of shows. What a beyotch! :down:


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

A couple weeks ago, one of the poker sites was advertising how many of thier players made it to teh final 9. They showed 6 including chino, it was annoying. And it was show during the WSOP....


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

she completely misplayed the AJ hand. i remember reading at the time about how she played it and had some discussions thinking "man that's bad", but seeing it on the tv confirmed it for me. 

i'll be rooting for.... no one. none of that crowd seems worth rooting for, truthfully. i was hoping ocrowe would make it, too bad he finished 15th


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

Chino Rheem will win it all....he has the most experience and his comeback from the brink gives him to momentum.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Magister said:


> A couple weeks ago, one of the poker sites was advertising how many of thier players made it to teh final 9. They showed 6 including chino, it was annoying. And it was show during the WSOP....


Yep, that is annoying. Was this during the WSOP broadcast on ESPN? If so, makes me even happier that I FF thru all the commercials.

I'm glad to see that the final table will place Nov 9-10 and be broadcast on Nov 11. Shouldn't be too hard to avoid poker sites and news for 2 days until the show airs.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

hummingbird_206 said:


> Yep, that is annoying. Was this during the WSOP broadcast on ESPN? If so, makes me even happier that I FF thru all the commercials.
> 
> I'm glad to see that the final table will place Nov 9-10 and be broadcast on Nov 11. Shouldn't be too hard to avoid poker sites and news for 2 days until the show airs.


Yup, it was on ESPN, so I won't mention the advertisers name, since I didn't appreciate it being blown.

Looking forward to the final though, been lots of fun.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

I haven't watched the second hour of Day 7 yet, but I'll be rooting for Scott Montgomery and Darus Suharto...both are Canadian!! That was a sick suckout on the hand that Tiffany called clock on. She was easy on the eyes, but I think all those chips went to her head.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

Just finished watching the second hour of Day 7. What a horrible call by Tiffany!! OTOH, Chino's reads have been scary good. Horrible luck when the flush topped his trips. He's taken the bad beats so well....not sure I would be doing the same  I'm going to add him and Ylon Schwartz to my list of players to root for*. How can you not root for someone who wants to end up in a hammock in the Caribbean, and is nicknamed "The Mop"?

*Yes, that makes 4 of the final 9 that I'm rooting for. What's your point??


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

I'm hot and cold about Chino. I really didn't like him berating Bishop for calling with 66 (when Chino C/R shoved K9). I agree with his assessment - Bishop made a TERRIBLE call there, but you don't berate a guy for trying to stack off with second pair.

I'm still disappointed Hamrick bubbled, I was SO rooting for him. Now I'm on Montgomery, Phillips, and Marquiz.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

scottjf8 said:


> I'm hot and cold about Chino. I really didn't like him berating Bishop for calling with 66 (when Chino C/R shoved K9). I agree with his assessment - Bishop made a TERRIBLE call there, but you don't berate a guy for trying to stack off with second pair.
> 
> I'm still disappointed Hamrick bubbled, I was SO rooting for him. Now I'm on Montgomery, Phillips, and Marquiz.


I can't argue with that. But in Chino's defense, the last thing he said after that hand was, "Don't get me wrong, that was a great call. But how could you make it".


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

interesting thoughts from Tiffany Michele


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

scottjf8 said:


> interesting thoughts from Tiffany Michele


She's crazy, Wayne Gretsky never checked anyone!!


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

The banter between her and Marq is classic.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

scottjf8 said:


> interesting thoughts from Tiffany Michele


That's great stuff!! I almost forgot about her actions when Ylon asked for a count during one hand --> spins finger around her chips....classy!!


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

scottjf8 said:


> interesting thoughts from Tiffany Michele


I thought the response from Craigmarq (post #19) was way better than any 'thoughts' Tiffany could come up with. And her response (Post #41)was, well, gee, guess you don't agree with me, so I'm out of this now. If she wants to be a Bi&ch then fine, own it. Don't whine and say you all misjudged me so I'm gonna take my ball and go home. If you want people to think you're a nice person, then be a nice person...don't be a bi&ch and then tell people you're nice.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

BTW, what is the rule for asking for a chip count? I didn't think that you could force someone to speak, so I'm guessing that they don't have to tell you? Do they just have to make all the chips visible or can they ask the dealer to count? I'm guessing that it's one of those things that's just done because it's polite?


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

mcb08 said:


> BTW, what is the rule for asking for a chip count? I didn't think that you could force someone to speak, so I'm guessing that they don't have to tell you? Do they just have to make all the chips visible or can they ask the dealer to count? I'm guessing that it's one of those things that's just done because it's polite?


As far as I know it's polite. The player does not have to say a word. However this rule does apply:



> 64. Players must keep their highest denomination chips visible at all times.


Taken from this: http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/pdfs/wsop.tournament-rules.08.pdf

This is also applicable:



> 77. Players are entitled to be informed of the pot size in pot-limit games only. Dealers will
> not count the pot in limit and no-limit games. If requested, dealers may spread the pot so
> that it can be counted by a player.


As far as I know, when a person asks for a chip count, the other player is only obligated to move their chips around so that the requester can visually count the chips themselves.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Originally Posted by tiffanymichelle 
"I'm absolutely flattered by the love, attention, kind words and support that I've been showed. "

"What internet are you using?"

LOL

-smak-


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

Wow, is she clueless.....and by the way, those giant rings you wear are really UGLY


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Weird, it sure seems like the dealer DOES count someone's stack in no limit games (on other shows at least).

BTW, the Two Plus Two Pokercast podcast has had interviews with a few of the November 9, including on this week.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

mcb08 said:


> [Tiffany] was easy on the eyes


meh. She looked like she probably used to be hot once upon a time, but these days she's got a "rode hard, put away wet" look about her.


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

"and chirpping marquis for playing slow taking like 15 seconds to make a decision *sorry that he likes to think through his plays and not just ship it with AJ*"

ouch! :up:


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

busyba said:


> meh. She looked like she probably used to be hot once upon a time, but these days she's got a "rode hard, put away wet" look about her.


Meh. I'd still hit it...4 or 5 times


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## max99 (May 23, 2004)

mcb08 said:


> BTW, what is the rule for asking for a chip count? I didn't think that you could force someone to speak, so I'm guessing that they don't have to tell you? Do they just have to make all the chips visible or can they ask the dealer to count? I'm guessing that it's one of those things that's just done because it's polite?


A player doesn't have to speak or count his/her chips. If the player will not respond or does what TM did, the dealer or floor person will count the chips.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

scottjf8 said:


> Bishop made a TERRIBLE call there, but you don't berate a guy for trying to stack off with second pair.


huh? he made a great read and a great call against a very aggressive player.

Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 2s 8c 5d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
6c 6h 757 76.46 233 23.54 0 0.00 0.765
Kc 9d 233 23.54 757 76.46 0 0.00 0.2


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

pjenkins said:


> huh? he made a great read and a great call against a very aggressive player.
> 
> Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 2s 8c 5d
> cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
> ...


If you know exactly WHAT Chino has, then sure, the math dictates a call. But you don't - you have to give him a range, and most of that range either has you beat, or has you close to flipping.


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## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

Finally got around to watching most of the episodes this past week. A few thoughts...

Do they keep a bad beat indicator somewhere? It seems that Chino got lucky more than a few times. Or it could just be the ESPN edit.

Why does anyone put up with Hellmuth? Like that guy said, it's their $10K. If they want to throw it away on 10-4 offsuit, why does Phil care? Has anyone told Hellmuth to shut up or else to take it outside?

Tiffany Michelle was pretty annoying. The celebration when other gals got knocked out, the eating of fries at the table, the non-disclosure of chip counts, etc. But since she's an attractive female, I'm sure that she'll get a ton of endorsement deals.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

logic88 said:


> Finally got around to watching most of the episodes this past week. A few thoughts...
> 
> Do they keep a bad beat indicator somewhere? It seems that Chino got lucky more than a few times. Or it could just be the ESPN edit.


The edit. To get that deep in a tourney, you give beats and take em. Just hopefully you have more chips than your opponent when you take em



> Why does anyone put up with Hellmuth? Like that guy said, it's their $10K. If they want to throw it away on 10-4 offsuit, why does Phil care? Has anyone told Hellmuth to shut up or else to take it outside?


Most ignore him I'm sure



> Tiffany Michelle was pretty annoying. The celebration when other gals got knocked out, the eating of fries at the table, the non-disclosure of chip counts, etc. But since she's an attractive female, I'm sure that she'll get a ton of endorsement deals.


The fries thing was petty. The chip counting thing - you're never required to give a count. If a player asks, it's up to the dealer to get a count, or the player can estimate it (which is why you are required to keep the "big chips" out front). Now, her swirling her finger WAS obnoxious.

She already got a deal. And it's from the biggest scamming cheating poker site out there (Absolute/Ultimate Bet)


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

scottjf8 said:


> If you know exactly WHAT Chino has, then sure, the math dictates a call. But you don't - you have to give him a range, and most of that range either has you beat, or has you close to flipping.


the good read was him narrowing down his range and putting Chino squarely on a bluff. surely you know that.


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## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

logic88 said:


> Has anyone told Hellmuth to shut up or else to take it outside?


A few years ago Sam Grissle (who is much smaller and older than Phil) took him outside and popped him. They even talked about it on the WSOP a few years ago when Sam and Phil were jawing at each other. I remember Phil bragging about his bracelets and Sam saying something like, "Yeah, but what if you are just a goofball who catches cards". I couldn't stop laughing and still use that line. This is supposedly a video of the aftemath of the fight.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

When does the WSOP start up again? It's not going to be live is it?


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

Amnesia said:


> When does the WSOP start up again? It's not going to be live is it?


They play the Final Table this Sunday, down to 2, then heads up Monday night. Tuesday ESPN shows a bastardized 2 hours of the whole thing.

From what I've heard, there is no "live" other than online blogs and other stuff.. no PPV like they had the last few years. What a shame, I would have bought it.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

But the live PPVs had no hole cards, right? Up until this, I think the closest to live _with hole cards_ was the FSN (now comcast sports net) speed poker series a year or two ago, where I think they did it on the weekend, and aired it Sunday night.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

yeah, no hole cards.. But that'd be fine with me.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

why delay the entire event by months, only to NOT carry any of it live? how stupid.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

pjenkins said:


> why delay the entire event by months, only to NOT carry any of it live? how stupid.


So we could have ALL of this buildup. Great stories. Lots of shows.

And all I've seen is the 1 hour show ESPN aired tonight. All of the pro's picked either Demidov or Chino to win it. Nobody picked Phillips.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

scottjf8 said:


> So we could have ALL of this buildup. Great stories. Lots of shows.
> 
> And all I've seen is the 1 hour show ESPN aired tonight. All of the pro's picked either Demidov or Chino to win it. Nobody picked Phillips.


lol @ buildup.

i'll take phillips, luckbox truck drivers always win


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

"Hole" cards I always thought it was 'hold' cards, as in Texas Hold'em? Course, I'm not sure where they get 'pocket' cam from either.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

Hole cards are also referred to as Pocket cards ("Pocket Pair"). Pocket Cam sounds better than Hole Cam.


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## DirecTiVoTexas (Aug 26, 2003)

Hopefully, Phillips will play the final table better than he threw the first pitch before the Cardinals game. LOL. I was embarrassed for him after seeing that last night.

I'm looking forward to next week. I have to agree with what several of the pro's said during the preview show. This year's final table definitely has better quality players top to bottom than recent years. I am a little surprised there is no PPV this time around. I think Chino is my pick to win it all.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

mcb08 said:


> Hole cards are also referred to as Pocket cards ("Pocket Pair"). Pocket Cam sounds better than Hole Cam.


Makes sense, thanks.

I can see not having PPV for the first day since they split the final into 2 days. Someone could record the first day and then the 2 at the final table the second day could watch it and maybe one gain an advantage over the other by seeing the previous day's play. But I would think that PPV for the final 2 would make sense....unless it's over in 1 hand

I wish that ESPN would do a telecast of the entire final table event. I know there would be lots of hours with not much happening, but I think it could be interesting to watch.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

PPV in previous years had had no pocket cam, so I don't think that that's the issue. There was certainly lots of down time, but people paid to watch it (myself included).


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

I didn't say see the cards, as with a pocket cam, I said see the play. So much of poker is reading other players that I think if someone studied the play that they could probably get a pretty good read on play style from the first day and that could be an advantage. Yes, they see the play in real time at the table, but being able to really study it on a recording could be an advantage...YMMV


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

mcb08 said:


> Pocket Cam sounds better than Hole Cam.


Yeah, that's a completely different cable channel.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

scottjf8 said:


> So we could have ALL of this buildup. Great stories. Lots of shows.
> 
> And all I've seen is the 1 hour show ESPN aired tonight. All of the pro's picked either Demidov or Chino to win it. Nobody picked Phillips.





DirecTiVoTexas said:


> Hopefully, Phillips will play the final table better than he threw the first pitch before the Cardinals game. LOL. I was embarrassed for him after seeing that last night.
> 
> I'm looking forward to next week. I have to agree with what several of the pro's said during the preview show. This year's final table definitely has better quality players top to bottom than recent years. I am a little surprised there is no PPV this time around. I think Chino is my pick to win it all.


Dang, my SP didn't pick up the preview show. I'll try to catch it on ESPN2.

edit: Just checked and the SP wasn't picking up the final table eps next week, either, WTF?? Anyway, just added manually to the To Do list.


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## DirecTiVoTexas (Aug 26, 2003)

hummingbird_206 said:


> Dang, my SP didn't pick up the preview show. I'll try to catch it on ESPN2.
> 
> edit: Just checked and the SP wasn't picking up the final table eps next week, either, WTF?? Anyway, just added manually to the To Do list.


My SP didn't schedule the preview show either. I just happened to notice it was on last night. But, the SP did schedule the finale next week.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

DirecTiVoTexas said:


> My SP didn't schedule the preview show either. I just happened to notice it was on last night. But, the SP did schedule the finale next week.


It had a different title. IIRC, it said "2008 World Series of Poker Final Table Preview" so SP's wouldn't catch it.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

scottjf8 said:


> So we could have ALL of this buildup. Great stories. Lots of shows.


I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not (I did see the response 'lol'ing).

At least the Two Plus Two podcast hosts thought there have been relatively little buildup. I don't remember exactly what their original impressions were of the delay, but I think they finally warmed up to the idea.. and then at least on the most recent one I listened to, they thought that the delay has been largely a bust.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I think it was just a bad year to do it with the election.

Plus, this is way too long. Now you have football, NHL, NBA, College Football.

If you want to make an event bigger, schedule it when nothing's going on, like in mid August.

-smak-


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

But then you'd have to have the *actual* tournaments several months earlier. I bet for most people, 2 hrs a week of poker is enough.


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

when the wsop began, I thought they said that everyone who made the final table would get at least a million. I know it was that way last year. On recent broadcasts though, they've said 'almost a million'. That doesn't seem right to me. The pot is huge (biggest ever?) and they can't guarantee a million to the final table??


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

I think they said everyone would go home with like 900k or so. But they should get a million, since the bulk of the money has been in a Money Market account the last few months.

Of course, with the economy the way it is, first place might have gone from 9M to 7M


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## JakeyB (Apr 24, 2003)

Paperboy2003 said:


> when the wsop began, I thought they said that everyone who made the final table would get at least a million. I know it was that way last year. On recent broadcasts though, they've said 'almost a million'. That doesn't seem right to me. The pot is huge (biggest ever?) and they can't guarantee a million to the final table??


This wasn't the biggest pot ever. '06 was the biggest with a 12mil payout and ~8800 entries.


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## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

scottjf8 said:


> I think they said everyone would go home with like 900k or so. But they should get a million, since the bulk of the money has been in a Money Market account the last few months.
> 
> Of course, with the economy the way it is, first place might have gone from 9M to 7M


http://www.bankrollboost.com/poker_blog/2008-wsop-main-event-payouts/

Did they said that they were increasing the payouts because of the delay? I would have thought that the Rio would just taken the interest and kept the payout structure as-is.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

logic88 said:


> http://www.bankrollboost.com/poker_blog/2008-wsop-main-event-payouts/
> 
> Did they said that they were increasing the payouts because of the delay? I would have thought that the Rio would just taken the interest and kept the payout structure as-is.


damn, that would be a nice little scam on the Rio's part.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

There's a set buy-in. Based on the number of participants there's a set payout structure that's known in advance. I'm also guessing that those that participated knew there would be a four month gap between making the final table and actually playing the final table. I don't think the players deserve any "bump" in their prize money because of the delay.

By the way, wasn't that all discussed in a thread when the WSOP Main Event began?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

JLucPicard said:


> There's a set buy-in. Based on the number of participants there's a set payout structure that's known in advance. I'm also guessing that those that participated knew there would be a four month gap between making the final table and actually playing the final table. I don't think the players deserve any "bump" in their prize money because of the delay.
> 
> By the way, wasn't that all discussed in a thread when the WSOP Main Event began?


It's not so much that the players deserve a bump because of the delay, it's that the Casino _doesn't_ deserve the interest bump they get by sticking the money in the bank during the duration of the delay.

They should announce that the interest will be distributed to all the dealers and floorpeople that worked the Main Event as a bonus on top of whatever they regularly get for working the event.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

they said that they were putting the interest earned back into the prize pool. I don't have a link now (on the iPhone) but they definitely said they were when the new delay was announced.


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

I was bored one day and watched the preview show that they aired this week. It looks like they guys already got some of the money because they talked about things they bought in the last few months. Is this true?


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

laststarfighter said:


> I was bored one day and watched the preview show that they aired this week. It looks like they guys already got some of the money because they talked about things they bought in the last few months. Is this true?


yes


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

laststarfighter said:


> I was bored one day and watched the preview show that they aired this week. It looks like they guys already got some of the money because they talked about things they bought in the last few months. Is this true?





scottjf8 said:


> yes





scottjf8 said:


> I think they said everyone would go home with like 900k or so.


Go home with 900k once the final table was set, or at the end of the tournament??? I've not read anything that made me think they all got the 900k right away. That doesn't mean they didn't, just that I've seen nothing saying that was the case. I assumed their prize money would be awarded once they were done with the tournament.

That's not to say that a car dealership wouldn't necessarily sell them a swanky new car knowing that, barring some unforeseen calamity (or getting thown in jail or something) they would be getting at least close to a million.


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## rgswff2 (Feb 23, 2001)

they all got paid 9th place money since that is the minimum any of them will win


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

rgswff2 said:


> they all got paid 9th place money since that is the minimum any of them will win


This.


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## deli99 (Nov 12, 2003)

Final Table result is spoiled on the Yahoo front page. :down: Avoid at all costs.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Wow, that's awful! But thanks for warning the rest of us.


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

Thanks for the warning. I have successfully avoided it so far.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Avoid the Sports tab over there.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

I went straight over there to look, spoilers really don't matter to me.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

JFriday said:


> I went straight over there to look, spoilers really don't matter to me.


I did too. I mean, I don't really care to see it "live", and since it is actually over for real and is in the history books, I'm OK with knowing.

But I won't say anymore than that.

When will it actually air on ESPN? Starting tonight?


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## Merrier (Jul 20, 2005)

I've tried really hard to avoid spoilers. It was going well until lunch today. We were listening to NPR while waiting at the Wendy's drive-thru. All of sudden, they blurt out (note: xx used in place of spoilers) "xx has won the World Series of Poker". I frantically mashed the mute button to avoid further spoilers while wishing I could unhear that last bit. I gave it a little time, and unmuted the radio just in time to catch "xx bested xx to take the 9 million dollar first prize". Arrgghh. Ah well, I guess the suspense of 3-9 still exists. 

It's airing at 9 EST tonight.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

I got to 2:15 today w/out finding out who won (I know who was the final 2, but didn't watch/follow HU) until someone IM'd me just now about it.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> I did too. I mean, I don't really care to see it "live", and since it is actually over for real and is in the history books, I'm OK with knowing.
> 
> But I won't say anymore than that.
> 
> When will it actually air on ESPN? Starting tonight?


Yup, I think 9pm tonight on ESPN.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

scottjf8 said:


> I got to 2:15 today w/out finding out who won (I know who was the final 2, but didn't watch/follow HU) until someone IM'd me just now about it.


i feel like ..


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

When I read Scott's post, I thought "jenkins"?? 

Then I scrolled down to keep reading the rest of the thread. 






What airs starting tonight? The start of the final table or just the final two heads up?


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## TiVo Bum (Nov 6, 2004)

jsmeeker said:


> When I read Scott's post, I thought "jenkins"??
> 
> Then I scrolled down to keep reading the rest of the thread.
> 
> ...


The whole thing airs tonight from 9pm-11pm ET.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

OMG, what a great final table. I'm so glad I was able to avoid spoilers. 

I couldn't believe how Montgomery went out. That was so bad.

Phillips stayed in there longer than I thought he would after the first few hands.

What was with the editing on the hand Kim went out on? They showed more of him putting on his coat than on the hand where he got knocked out!


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## TiVo Bum (Nov 6, 2004)

Supposedly Phillips got a lot of coaching during the break. Either he disregarded any and all advice or the coaching was horrible.

I don't have a problem with how Montgomery went out. The guy loves weak aces and to me that's the biggest sign of an amateur. Lost a lot of chips with A9o and no way should've played A3s so hard. Yeah, he got beat by a one outer but he never should have been playing the hand.

It always helps to get good cards and Demidov and Eastgate sure looked like they were getting a lot of 'em. But you still have to play them well and both of them maximized the return on their good hands.

Now Demidov really knows how to play Ax. And with the exception of the last hand when he had A9o he got a lot out of them. Totally hammered Phillips with his AQ > AK and his A4 > A8.

Best thing of all - now we don't have to hear anymore about how Phyllis Hellmouth is the youngest winner of the WSOP Main Event ever. It was funny that on the preview show he said he didn't think his age record would ever be broken.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

Some interesting hands tonight. I listened live Sunday, and really thought that big Demidov/Phillips hand was AA v KK/QQ. Can't believe it was AQ v AK.

Scott Montgomery is SO bad. 4 handed, shoving *60 big blinds* in with Ax against the best player at the table is horrid. Just horrid.

I wish we'd see more heads up then we did, since they played 5+ hours and ESPN showed 2 hands. But whatever.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

scottjf8 said:


> 4 handed, shoving *60 big blinds* in with Ax against the best player at the table is *pretty much how every online donkament goes, with the exception of the Ax hand hitting quad Aces *


fyp


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## Dssturbo1 (Feb 23, 2005)

the delay format sucks.
was watching fox news today and they popped the winner up on graphic. so i get to watch it tivoed knowing the winner, it sucks but not the end of the world.

on the preview show last week they also mentioned that all the final 9 got large endorsement deals for the final 2 hour show, so even #9 out made over $1M.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I think the whole idea of waiting for months and building it up like this, and then showing the final table in an edited 2 hour shovefest makes it a bad idea.

Doing all that and then leading up to a ppv, or how about one of the espn's showing the whole would have made it a lot better result of the 4 month delay.

-smak-


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

I like this better then what they have done in the past. It was really bad when teh final was broadcast 4 months after it was completed. At least you have a little chance of not being spoiled for a couple days.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

No, I hated this. All the fake build up---and did you see the outfits all the players had on? They looked like NASCAR cars.


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## TiVo Bum (Nov 6, 2004)

Agreed, the numerous logos were a bit much. One reason I like the WPT more is that they are very, very restrictive of sponsor ads on player clothing.

With all the hype for this, ESPN really should have done at least two two-hour shows over two nights and cut out some of the puff pieces. It was criminal that one of the players got booted and we didn't even get to see the hand. I understand the guy was short stacked and probably pushed with garbage but that was handled more like a Day One broadcast than the special event it was supposed to be. And really only heads up for the last 10 minutes or so? Could they have rushed it any more?


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

scottjf8 said:


> Some interesting hands tonight. I listened live Sunday, and really thought that big Demidov/Phillips hand was AA v KK/QQ. Can't believe it was AQ v AK.
> 
> Scott Montgomery is SO bad. 4 handed, shoving *60 big blinds* in with Ax against the best player at the table is horrid. Just horrid.
> 
> I wish we'd see more heads up then we did, since they played 5+ hours and ESPN showed 2 hands. But whatever.


I still haven't watched the ESPN show, but I listened to it live on Sunday. This is the one hand that I really wanted to see. I thought for sure it was Aces over Kings.

And ditto to what pjenkins says re: online donkaments


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

I was very impressed with Demidov. He was third at the WSOP:Europe Main Event and was second at this years Main event. He is a true professional. He has done more than Chino Reem, so why pump up Chino? Chino was an ass. Just some thuggy ass.

Was the heads up really that quick on Tuesday? How many hands did they play? I know how many we saw. Seems like if it had gone longer we would have gotten another episode.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

Magister said:


> I was very impressed with Demidov. He was third at the WSOP:Europe Main Event and was second at this years Main event. He is a true professional. He has done more than Chino Reem, so why pump up Chino? Chino was an ass. Just some thuggy ass.
> 
> Was the heads up really that quick on Tuesday? How many hands did they play? I know how many we saw. Seems like if it had gone longer we would have gotten another episode.


Don't remember how many hands...Play was slow with LOTS of breaks (they were taking footage to ESPN for on-the-fly editing), but 5-6 hours, IIRC.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

Magister said:


> I was very impressed with Demidov. He was third at the WSOP:Europe Main Event and was second at this years Main event. He is a true professional.


yeah, that's an amazing run.


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## hanumang (Jan 28, 2002)

For those who are curious about the exact hands, check out the official hand-by-hand log. As mentioned, there were a lot of breaks.

I have to believe that fatigue (and too much hoopla) got to lot of those guys. Not sure how else to explain so many pushes with unmade hands...


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

TiVo Bum said:


> Agreed, the numerous logos were a bit much. One reason I like the WPT more is that they are very, very restrictive of sponsor ads on player clothing.


But how many sponsor's logos were something other than "dot-net free poker sites not to be confused with the dot-com gambling sites of the same name", and how many of those were there because the players who won entries through those sites probably had to agree to it?



smak said:


> Doing all that and then leading up to a ppv, or how about one of the espn's showing the whole would have made it a lot better result of the 4 month delay.


The problem is, you have no idea when that last hand is going to take place, especially when it's heads-up and they spend who knows how many hours pretty much just trading blinds back and forth. Even if you say in advance that day 1 of the final nine ends when they're down to two, you have to take some sort of guess as to how many hours you allocate.

Also, putting it on a PPV, or even on a minor channel like ESPN Classic (which is on a digital package in many parts of the country), sort of defeats the purpose of the whole thing; it's the show that drives the event's popularity, not the other way around. It almost smacks of the NFL even hinting that the Super Bowl would be on NFL Network.

There's one other problem with running it live; you run the risk of somebody sending signals to one of the players. Of course, you get around that by having a 30-minute delay in the feed, extending the delay if necessary so no hand starts airing until it is completed.

-- Don


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

They could have done both. They cut together the final table in 2 days, and i'm sure they started on it before it was actually finished.

So they could have done the ppv live, and then still had the exact same 2 hour show last night.

A ppv of every hand, and the 2 hour edited version last night would be so dramatically different that they could do both.

And of course they did do both the last 2 years.

-smak-


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

Finished watching the FT last night. Congrats to Eastgate, but man did he get cards when it counted!!!


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

mcb08 said:


> Finished watching the FT last night. Congrats to Eastgate, but man did he get cards when it counted!!!


can't win a tourny without it usually 

that said, it helped that Demidov bluffed off huge early in the HU match and put himself in a huge hole.


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

The delay was unnecessary for me and the other people I know who follow poker. I never knew who the winner was in previous seasons. And my chances of accidently finding out were just as good in those years as it was this year (yahoo homepage, radio, TV, etc.)


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

smak said:


> I think the whole idea of waiting for months and building it up like this, and then showing the final table in an edited 2 hour shovefest makes it a bad idea.


I don't think they did anywhere near as much promotion as people expected them to do.. (i.e. except for fewer people knowing who won, it didn't seem TOO different from the regular show)

and I mean that in a good way. The last 2 hours was _pretty close_ to a regular show.. Just a little bit less slick/fewer jokes.

Even though I think he ended up with the same amount of money, I think Phillips should have just blinded off until he got pocket Aces, Kings or Queens.. then played. The 2+2 podcast said he would have gotten 4 mil if he just blinded himself off -- which is what he got.. So I think he lucked out based upon his early play, at least.


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