# did apple just bury tivo?



## AaRdVarK3 (Aug 12, 2003)

Sorry for the provocative headline, but given TiVo's poor decision to release the Series3 on the same day as an Apple event, and then combined with it's lackluster functionality compared to the Series2, and now Apple announces this for Q1 2007:

iTV (Not Final Name): 1/2 size of Mac Mini, built-in power supply, USB, Ethernet, 802.11 "wireless component video", optical audio and HDMI ports, plus old RCA stereo audio ports. Works with Apple Remote. interface like a Next-Gen front row"

Granted, this device and TiVo serve different purposes, but at $800, S3 has been targetted towards the early adopters, and this device makes a LOT more sense for somebody like me.

Any comments?


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## skaeight (Jan 20, 2004)

They might have. We can at least put too bed any tivo/apple or tivo/netflix deals.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

how does it record HD from cable ?


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## AaRdVarK3 (Aug 12, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> how does it record HD from cable ?


It doesn't record anything, it's just an "extender". But while TiVo has been embracing the old paradigm, Apple is pursuing the new one. An ATSC Tuner woudl get me my networks in HD, which is the majority of my television watching, and then the iTunes Store can get me the miscellaneous shows that I watch from cable. I'd still spend way less overall than I do on DirecTV now.

The only reason I have DirecTV is because of the HDTiVo, but I'd be willing to bet that Apple will get the interface right, so my jonesing for a Series3 has just disappeared.


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## skaeight (Jan 20, 2004)

Not bad, only $299.


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## AaRdVarK3 (Aug 12, 2003)

$299 when it comes out!

It looks like I am done with TiVo and DirecTV. (in six months)


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## peteypete (Feb 3, 2004)

iTV is a dumb extender, NO DVR function. LAME.


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## GusMan (Nov 16, 2004)

After seeing the related post, I was wondering how long it would take to see a "doom of Tivo" post.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

That's exactly what it is - an Apple Media Center Extender.


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## chiefted (Dec 20, 2002)

AaRdVarK3 said:


> $299 when it comes out!
> 
> It looks like I am done with TiVo and DirecTV. (in six months)


Quite honestly (ok Mac User here so bear with me) when they (Tivo) dropped the ball on TTG for Mac I was looking for other solutions so I could dump Tivo

Steve Jobs just gave me the quick and dirty out in three months.

(Note: don't ask me who I know I won't post their name here, but the person I know at Apple said "This will be the big announcement at Macworld in January probably")

Buh buy Tivo


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

AaRdVarK3 said:


> did apple just bury tivo?


No. Not by a long shot.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Yeah, I don't see how it's a competitor to TiVo at all. If anything, a complement - if TTG from Series 3 could be done. 

And if Series 3 could have the "GoBack" functionality of Series 2, but in Hi-Def, it would do what this iTV does.


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## DrewTivo (Mar 30, 2005)

skaeight said:


> They might have. We can at least put too bed any tivo/apple or tivo/netflix deals.


How's that? They have 4 months to integrate functionality.

And, agreed, it's different from Tivo. But it does provide a nicer alternative to HMO on Tivo.


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## BriGuy20 (Aug 4, 2005)

I think they may have. Yes, it's an extender, but I'm assuming you can buy/download movies/TV shows from the extender itself. If so, (given the fast downloads that Steve discussed), you should be able to download the stuff faster than real time. It's also just about SD resolution.

I think it comes down to a la carte pricing VS. subscription. If people would rather pay a la carte for their TV shows, they'll probably pick Apple's solution. If they want the monthly fee instead, they'll probably pick TiVo.

Also, the iTV will probably be INCREDIBLY intuitive. Apple showed us how intuitive their designs can be with the iPod.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

Yes they did. And it's not pretty. I can't wait to dump cable, and get an hd antenna.

Let's see 800 + subscription + cable

or

300 + 1.99 a show (or season passes) + antenna

and you know that there could be a tuner in this thing before its out the door...


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## TheNumberSix (Jul 8, 2004)

Well, I won't make generalizations. 

But from my own perspective, I had a Series 3 as my Number One item on my Christmas list.

But now I think I'd rather pick up two of these iTV devices in 2007 and dump one of my 2 Tivo Series 2 boxes and ignore the Series 3 altogether. 

High Def just isn't compelling for me. (For example, I'm West coast and I get both the East Coast and West coast HBO feeds in SD. The HD HBO feed I get is in West Coast time. I'd rather watch my show at 6 in SD than at 9 in HD, since I'm more interested in the story than the pretty.)

With my Series 2, I can get all my shows into a spare PC I have, convert them to mpeg2 and then have complete ease of moving them around on my macs and tvs and burn them if I want.

This iTV was only just announced, and who knows if it's going to really be decent, but based on the preliminary info, I'm certainly going to consider them over a series 3.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Don't forget the market. Folks on the cutting edge that are technically literate may want to go this route. But Joe and Jane consumer want a simple box that that sits there and does what they want. _Most _ people don't want any part of networking their computers to their TVs.

Sure, Apple stuff is cool, but think about it...has Apple buried Microsoft?

There is still a huge and loyal market for TiVo. Big enough for them to make enough money? I don't know, they've always had problems getting over the revenue hump. But this is not going to be the thing that kills TiVo.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

This will eventually be a good DVD player/Netflix/blockbuster replacement when movie studios climb on board.

It's got nothing on DVR functions, though.

Two different things.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

dig_duggler said:


> Yes they did. And it's not pretty. I can't wait to dump cable, and get an hd antenna.
> 
> Let's see 800 + subscription + cable
> 
> ...


There won't be a tuner in it. Apple has NO USE for a tuner.

$1.99 a show... I guess if you don't watch more than 6 shows a month recorded and watch everything else live, your math works. And if you don't have cable at all.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

_Sure, Apple stuff is cool, but think about it...has Apple buried Microsoft? _

Are you honestly comparing Tivo to Microsoft?


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## Stoystown (Jun 13, 2002)

I do not find the Apple iTV compelling. But I already have Tivo and subscribe to Netflix. 

I agree that Apple likely will never put a tuner in its box because its business model is set to make $0.02 off each $2 people spend on watching old episodes of "Lost." 

But the gamble here is whether people (early adopters and other apple-ites) will pay $300 to hook their mac into their TVs (he did not say whether this will work with PCs - but I bet it will). It will test whether the pay as you go DVR function is marketable.

My first reaction to the thing is that the delay is due to the Wi Fi "n" standard not being set yet (and they think it will be done by 1Q07). If that's the case, you also will have to get a new base station to stream HD in real time. 

A bit cumbersome, and more expense.


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## TheNumberSix (Jul 8, 2004)

Stoystown said:


> But the gamble here is whether people (early adopters and other apple-ites) will pay $300 to hook their mac into their TVs (he did not say whether this will work with PCs - but I bet it will).


Engadget's live coverage indicated that Steve said it would work with PCs and Macs, but he wanted to show it on a Mac "Since he was biased." Heh.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

_$1.99 a show... I guess if you don't watch more than 6 shows a month recorded and watch everything else live, your math works. And if you don't have cable at all._

Of course you ditch cable. And you know someone will make an eyetv or equivalent integration. And for those not on cable, well it's 10 bucks for a month of Colbert or Daily Show. Since my cable bill is probably around 60 or so, yeah that's 6 (nightly) cable shows. i don't really have time for more than that. Or 7 since I dont have to pay the 12.95 ifee. Or the cable card/box fee.

And it's 500 bucks cheaper. And there will be enhancements before it launches. And it won't take them 3 years to get it out the door. And within a year there will be updates to the business model.


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

As it's described, it's not a DVR, not without adding a computer and a tuner. Frankly, I don't _want_ my Macs to spend their time recording television -- they and their hard drives have better things to do. Being a media server is fine, since I use one of my Macs for that already, but I'll leave the television recording to my TiVos.

While one of these might get added to my setup, depending on how well it performs, the only part of my TiVo usage it'd replace would be the music & photos portions of HMO and, maybe, TiVotoComeBack.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

dig_duggler said:


> _$1.99 a show... I guess if you don't watch more than 6 shows a month recorded and watch everything else live, your math works. And if you don't have cable at all._
> 
> Of course you ditch cable. And you know someone will make an eyetv or equivalent integration. And for those not on cable, well it's 10 bucks for a month of Colbert or Daily Show. Since my cable bill is probably around 60 or so, yeah that's 6 (nightly) cable shows. i don't really have time for more than that. Or 7 since I dont have to pay the 12.95 ifee. Or the cable card/box fee.
> 
> And it's 500 bucks cheaper. And there will be enhancements before it launches. And it won't take them 3 years to get it out the door. And within a year there will be updates to the business model.


You like to mix and match your comparisons, fine. With this, in a month you get to watch one non-OTA (1) show per night for the same price that you can watch an unlimited amount of shows if you have basic cable and a TiVo. And that's not SAVING anything - just paying the same price. You want to watch more, or have cable? Oops... pay more.

And everyting else, you will have to watch live.

"And there will be enhancements before it launches." Huh? You can't just make stuff up and use that as an argument.

You can make many arguments for the iTV, but the economical advantages is decidedly NOT one of them.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

So, this is essentially an Apple Media Center Extender?

Other than the X-Box, what other extender has sold well?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

dig_duggler said:


> _Sure, Apple stuff is cool, but think about it...has Apple buried Microsoft? _
> 
> Are you honestly comparing Tivo to Microsoft?


I'm comparing competition for Apple's products.

If there was any reason to believe that this will bury TiVo because of how amazing or cool or functional it is, then it is an apt comparison to ask if Apple has buried their competition in the computer wars. And the answer is no.

It's not because there is anything wrong with Apple, and it's not because they don't make good products, because they do. Even if they make better products, they haven't buried the competition. Just like this won't bury the TiVo. Even if you believe this is a better solution than a TiVo for you, I don't think the masses are ready to watch TV this way.

(By the way, it's less work to just hit the "quote" button to automatically quote a post rather than copy and format manually.)


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## Stoystown (Jun 13, 2002)

"Of course you ditch cable. "

No on this planet. Ditch cable, and give up ESPN, FSW, the news shows and all the other shows you might have a passing interest in? I don't think so.

Unless my internet provider starts streaming 110 channels of video to my house, I'm not getting rid of cable. And I say 110 because I know I will watch likely 5 or 6 of them, and the other 100+ will be shopping channels that will pay to get into my house, but I will never watch.

Anyway, to me this could never replace cable.


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## Aflat (Aug 29, 2005)

Yes it is an Apple Media Center Extender. Do you know what you can do with that though? Its the MythTV concept. Stick a Mac in the basement, hooked to your cable. Then stick a MCE at each TV, and you now have DVR functionality at each TV, plus all your media stored in a central place. You can stick multiple tuners in 1 place, and record as many shows as you have tuners for.

Its a great concept, and if apple does it right, they might pull it off. The idea has been around for a while, a good idea, but there hasn't been a major backer to tie it all together. MS tried it, but people are just getting the idea to use a computer as a DVR. MS started it(well MythTV started it, by Average Joe User hasn't heard of them), Apple polishes it up, who wins?


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

Wow, people like the Tivo. I just don't have that much faith in a company that has such little innovation in so many years.

Apple has crushed the competition in digital music sales and players, bar none. It is true there is no tuner and it's not live tv, but if there sure seems to be the groundwork for getting rid of the middle man. There won't be channel surfing with the iTV, and if you watch a extreme amount of tv then it won't make sense. But if you watch on average 4 or 5 shows a week it makes financial sense (5 (shows)* 2 (bucks) * 22 (episodes in a normal season) = 220. That's a years worth of shows for 220. That pays for itself in 4 months of cable bills for me. And you can watch live tv for sports, as I (and everyone I know with a few exceptions) do anyway. The only real downside I see is no ESPN. 

And jeez did Tivo pick a bad day to release the Series 3.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

dig_duggler said:


> Apple has crushed the competition in digital music sales and players, bar none.


Yes. And barely made a dent in any other market. What's your conclusion?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Stoystown said:


> I do not find the Apple iTV compelling. But I already have Tivo and subscribe to Netflix.
> 
> I agree that Apple likely will never put a tuner in its box because its business model is set to make $0.02 off each $2 people spend on watching old episodes of "Lost." .


having Netflix and the ability to rip DVDs might get me interested in an iTV as an extender
but cabe bill of 45$/2$ = 23 shows a month for the whole family? why would I put everyone on a strict budget of wha shows to watch when I can pay 45$ a month much like my Netflix pay monthly for as many as you can watch.

plus the fact that most people do not get a DVR yet, let alone a Mac box doing pay per download stuff.

it is a geat Idea and Apple will make it well, and those that get them will LOVE them but like the S3 it is not for everybody


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Aflat said:


> Yes it is an Apple Media Center Extender. Do you know what you can do with that though? Its the MythTV concept. Stick a Mac in the basement, hooked to your cable. Then stick a MCE at each TV, and you now have DVR functionality at each TV, plus all your media stored in a central place. You can stick multiple tuners in 1 place, and record as many shows as you have tuners for.
> 
> Its a great concept, and if apple does it right, they might pull it off. The idea has been around for a while, a good idea, but there hasn't been a major backer to tie it all together. MS tried it, but people are just getting the idea to use a computer as a DVR. MS started it(well MythTV started it, by Average Joe User hasn't heard of them), Apple polishes it up, who wins?


I agree it's an interesting concept as I currently have an old laptop with S-video out hooked to my tv center and stream that way.
But unless Apple makes it compatible with XP MCE or builds their own tuner with recording functions, this isn't replacing my TiVos right now.



dig_duggler said:


> Wow, people like the Tivo. I just don't have that much faith in a company that has such little innovation in so many years.


Wasn't that what they were saying about Apple during the John Scully/Gil Amelio years?


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## Stoystown (Jun 13, 2002)

Jyoung: _this isn't replacing my TiVos right now._

That comment hit the nail on the head for this whole discussion. What Apple introduced today is not a DVR. It's not a Tivo. It's different.

I don't find it compelling at all (being able to download Disney films at "almost" DVD standard to watch on my TV, and paying $2 per episode to watch TV shows. But I have Tivo - - I can do a lot more than that now (but I have already paid for my Tivo and lifetime service).

I don't see why anyone with a Tivo would spend $300 more to buy Steve Job's new product.

The question, then, is how many people who might buy a Tivo would buy Apple's $300 hardware, plus per-film expenses instead?


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## johndierks (Sep 5, 2002)

MickeS said:


> Yes. And barely made a dent in any other market. What's your conclusion?


Apple is the fifth largest music reseller in the US. Apparently they're growing at a pace to pass the fourth biggest (Amazon) by Q1 2007. Obviously they have the strength to move huge markets. Cable TV is even a bigger market, but I think they could make inroads there.

I have a couple series two tivos, and when I saw the chance to transfer my lifetime subscription I was excited. Jumped over to the Tivo website to see what the S3 is all about. First thing I saw... $799, and I closed the window. There's no way they could justify that kind of coin for S3 to me. $299 is reasonable starting point for me. It won't replace my Tivo right now, but I could see it in the next few years.

I think Apple could be dangerous. They'll develop their platform slowly and in a few years you may have the Apple dual tuner box with 2TB of storage that connects to your computer and spreads your media all over your house.


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## DJRobX (Mar 5, 2000)

iTV doesn't sound particularly exciting to me. I've got a Mac Mini attached to my TV, why would I want a dumber device? By the same logic I never understood the Windos Media Center Extenders. 

Apple's got some nice hardare but they need to get into the DVR game if they want FrontRow to take off for the home theater. 

In the meantime, my Mac Mini runs Windows Media Center. 

-- Rob


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

johndierks said:


> in a few years you may have the Apple dual tuner box with 2TB of storage that connects to your computer and spreads your media all over your house.


2TB server and spread media throughout the house is very possible - but Apple will never seriously try and make a DVR. Why go after that hard to get sales in market when they can build out the download side.

cable bill of 45$/100 shows = 45 cents. when each show gets to there I might consider just downloading, but movies are the real download gold as many would buy an iTV for that ability given a full range of new releases. I would gladly pay 1.99 for a movie to watch for 48 hours


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## Sevenfeet (Jun 24, 2000)

DJRobX said:


> iTV doesn't sound particularly exciting to me. I've got a Mac Mini attached to my TV, why would I want a dumber device? By the same logic I never understood the Windos Media Center Extenders.
> 
> Apple's got some nice hardare but they need to get into the DVR game if they want FrontRow to take off for the home theater.
> 
> ...


Because not everyone has their Mac right next to the TV for a variety of good reasons. This allows your Mac to still be the media hub while bringing the TV into play.

Speaking of which, the iTV prototype is interesting, but Apple basically put Tivo, Microsoft and a few others on notice that they can do exactly what they are doing, and probably for less (especially in the case of Tivo). Apple once said that they weren't going to integrate TV with the Mac media centric lifestyle. No longer. How hard do you think it would be for Apple to build a Mac Mini with a cablecard slot abd proper DVR software?

I love Tivo and have been a fervent customer for 7 years now. But Apple is one of the only vendors I'd dump them for. A $800 S3 box that can't integrate with my iPod is a problem.


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## Stoystown (Jun 13, 2002)

Sevenfeet _How hard do you think it would be for Apple to build a Mac Mini with a cablecard slot and proper DVR software?_

Not very, but I don't think it's their business model - - so far they are pursuing delivery of shows via the net, not recording them. Maybe this would change, but making a DVR would nuke their $2 fee for current shows.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Stoystown said:


> Sevenfeet _How hard do you think it would be for Apple to build a Mac Mini with a cablecard slot and proper DVR software?_
> 
> Not very, but I don't think it's their business model - - so far they are pursuing delivery of shows via the net, not recording them. Maybe this would change, but making a DVR would nuke their $2 fee for current shows.


Quick tip: You can just hit the "Quote" button on their post when replying. It's easier, and less confusing for people parsing what you wrote vs. someone else.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

> Wasn't that what they were saying about Apple during the John Scully/Gil Amelio years?


True enough, but who is Tivo's Jobs that's going to save them?

I suppose I'm just frustrated at Tivo's lack of progress, and I feel let down by the s3. For the first time I can honestly see myself ditching cable tv (and thus tivo) and having a good, acceptable (and cheaper) alternative.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

TheNumberSix said:


> High Def just isn't compelling for me. (For example, I'm West coast and I get both the East Coast and West coast HBO feeds in SD. The HD HBO feed I get is in West Coast time. I'd rather watch my show at 6 in SD than at 9 in HD, since I'm more interested in the story than the pretty.)


Your Tivo is always empty so you would rather watch live than watch the HD one later? Just delay 3 hours and watch something else in the meantime.

I'm not _trying_ to get into the "why does anyone watch live" argument, but esp if you have an HDTV, I would think you would make small accomodations to get the HD version. (I usually only watch something live if there are more things on than I can record, using the TV's tuner.. or more likely just leaving the TV on CNN while I'm going to sleep. Though even then, I often buffer up live TV for a few mins so I can FF through the HEAD ON commercials.)


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Sevenfeet said:


> How hard do you think it would be for Apple to build a Mac Mini with a cablecard slot abd proper DVR software?


You mean TWO cablecard slots? 

And the answer is: it's not that easy. But most of all... Apple is NOT INTERESTED in making it easier for people to record TV. I don't know why year after year now these Apple DVR fantasies keep coming up.


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## Lenonn (May 31, 2004)

peteypete said:


> iTV is a dumb extender, NO DVR function. LAME.


I've heard rumors that they have people looking into TiVoesque functions, so there is always the possibility...


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

AaRdVarK3 said:


> Any comments?


Troll!


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

hefe said:


> No. Not by a long shot.


 :up:


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

MickeS said:


> You mean TWO cablecard slots?
> 
> And the answer is: it's not that easy. But most of all... Apple is NOT INTERESTED in making it easier for people to record TV. I don't know why year after year now these Apple DVR fantasies keep coming up.


Agreed, but they are not fantasies, or even a small wish, for me 

I don't think that Apple could come close to what TiVo offers in the DVR space, and honestly, I hope all these rumors just go away. Apple schmapple.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

Lenonn said:


> I've heard rumors that they have people looking into TiVoesque functions, so there is always the possibility...


Apple? Copy or steal someone else's intellectual property? I thought they only had original, amazing, one-of-a-kind Steve The Man type ideas   

BTW, I do have an iPod, so I don't really hate Apple... they do have a couple of nice products.


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## jcblack (Jul 26, 2001)

Once upon a time there were dozens of media extenders available. Now only a few, and most only interface with windows media center (some don't). Poor gateway, they were too early with their destination pc (living room pc). Like usual, Apple pulls all the ideas together and make it look shiny and neat - and they have an insane fan base who will buy everything and everything that's new in Apples lineup. I'm suprised they didn't just put video on the airport express (like they did audio).


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## AaRdVarK3 (Aug 12, 2003)

ashu said:


> Troll!


I'd say trollesque 

But I think there is truth to what I'm saying. I have DirecTV currently solely so I can have TiVo and HD. I was really looking forward to the Series3, as I was expecting feature parity with the Series2 plus all the dual tuner HD loving that I've been enjoying for over a year. The Series3 they brought to market, unfortunately, is not that product.

I went from a Series1 to a Series2 to an HDTiVo over the last five years, and I have no shortage of TiVo love, but Apple really appears to be looking towards the future. With the Series2, TiVo had the infrastructure in place to do online distribution of shows and movies on a controlled platform, but they failed to execute.

Apple's vision really intrigues me. Currently with iTMS, independent music labels get the exact same deal as the big five major labels! This gives them a pretty big chunk of that 99 cents. Now imagine independent TV Shows. How many people paying $1.99/episode would Joss Whedon need to keep Firefly going? Take a show like "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" on FX. The first season could've been produced for nothing, and the second season could've worked even without Danny Devito. Shows like that would be ideal candidates for an "independent" TV show, and with iTMS, they have a delivery mechanism.

So a Mac Mini is $599, iTV is $299, and an EyeTV Hybrid is $130. EyeTV's software already records your shows, dumps them into iTunes and even reencodes and iPod compatible version for you. Currently they support ATSC and NTSC cable. For $1100ish, I can record all the major network HD I want, without having to pay a monthly fee again. Oh, and I'm also getting a home computer as part of the deal. Now for SD shows on the iTunes Music Store at $2/episode and recorded at 640*480, quality is no different than digital cable and probably better than DirecTV. Here are my personal expenses between my wife and I for our non-network television:

Daily Show
Colbert Report
It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
Project Runway

$10/month for Daily Show and Colbert Report = $240/year
Right now, the other two shows only have a dozen episodes per season, but we'll say 22 anyway = $88/year

So for $328/year, I watch everything that I normally watch now... except...

HBO. HBO throws a big wrench in the works for me. The only decent option I can see now is NetFlix and wait on the HBO shows, but that hurts pretty bad, and tosses another $204/year onto the bill.

Even then, that's way less than the $800ish/year I pay for DirecTV right now. I also get full control of the OTA recordings, and everything else is playable on all my computers and our iPods. The sacrifices are that there's no more channel surfing. I record a good number of movies off of HBO, but NetFlix is a reasonable proxy for that. Live television events (Awards Shows, etc), I'd have to wait to watch or watch live. There wouldn't be any of this "start halfway in" business that I love about my TiVo. If I were into sports, I can see how the lack of ESPN kills everything else, but I'm not.

So I'm very, very intrigued at this point. It's the ultimate ala carte, and that appeals to me. Our household isn't a heavy consumer of television, so my DirecTV bill is just subsidizing the people who are heavy consumers of television. I like the idea of just paying for what I use.


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## AaRdVarK3 (Aug 12, 2003)

jcblack said:


> Once upon a time there were dozens of media extenders available. Now only a few, and most only interface with windows media center (some don't). Poor gateway, they were too early with their destination pc (living room pc). Like usual, Apple pulls all the ideas together and make it look shiny and neat - and they have an insane fan base who will buy everything and everything that's new in Apples lineup. I'm suprised they didn't just put video on the airport express (like they did audio).


They can call it whatever they want, this device is essentially an airport express video with a remote control.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

AaRdVarK3 said:


> Sorry for the provocative headline, but given TiVo's poor decision to release the Series3 on the same day as an Apple event...
> 
> Any comments?


I think it was a poor decision for Apple to have an "event" on the same day TiVo was releasing the Series 3.

WHAT was Apple thinking?!?!?


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

dig_duggler said:


> Wow, people like the Tivo. I just don't have that much faith in a company that has such little innovation in so many years.
> 
> Apple has crushed the competition in digital music sales and players, bar none. It is true there is no tuner and it's not live tv, but if there sure seems to be the groundwork for getting rid of the middle man. There won't be channel surfing with the iTV, and if you watch a extreme amount of tv then it won't make sense. But if you watch on average 4 or 5 shows a week it makes financial sense (5 (shows)* 2 (bucks) * 22 (episodes in a normal season) = 220. That's a years worth of shows for 220. That pays for itself in 4 months of cable bills for me. And you can watch live tv for sports, as I (and everyone I know with a few exceptions) do anyway. The only real downside I see is no ESPN.


Although I'm an iPod, iTMS (err... iTS) and TiVo fan, the iTV isn't that compelling to me.

Very little of what I watch is available on iTMS nor would I wanna screw around with paying $1.99/ep and possibly waiting until the day after it's aired in order to buy it.

Try this experiment: ditch your cable NOW. Buy EVERY show you were watching for $1.99 through iTMS and tell me if you actually like doing this. You don't need the not yet available $300 iTV box to do this.


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## mbernste (Apr 6, 2003)

Stoystown said:


> Unless my internet provider starts streaming 110 channels of video to my house, I'm not getting rid of cable.


Welcome to Verizon FiOS.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

AaRdVarK3 said:


> With the Series2, TiVo had the infrastructure in place to do online distribution of shows and movies on a controlled platform, but they failed to execute.


Ummm, so did Apple. How many of the new Fall shows can I get from iTS? how many of the new Movie Releases? I could not imagine using Netflix even if they sent me an already burned onto a blank DVD for 12.99

the only thing TiVo or Apple has failed on is getting rights to the content. This seems to be an industry wide problem and my Netflix postal mail rental subscription seems to be firmly in place for yet another year.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

> Ummm, so did Apple. How many of the new Fall shows can I get from iTS?


All of them. There is actually very little (except HBO) that you can't get off iTMS


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## JasonD (Mar 30, 2003)

When I read what Apple was coming out with I thought kind of cool technology but who wants to just pay for specific shows? Also how are you going to store it? People are saying they would just buy specific shows an cancel cable. 

Part of the reason I have cable is so I can browse around and and try new shows on the different stations. Example I would never have found "Hunter and hunted" on National Geographic station if I didn't have cable to look around on.. Its now one of my favorite shows. Or how about "30 days"? 

Also you have to rely on the internet to beam these shows to you. Ok if you know your just going to for sure watch certain shows then you could possibly save money. But have the joy of cable is exploring new possible shows.

So far I'm just not impressed with Apple's latest offering, oh yes and they want me to pay three hundred dollars for it. Come on they should practically give it away since most of the money they are going to be making is from selling content.


Jason


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## jcblack (Jul 26, 2001)

JasonD said:


> Part of the reason I have cable is so I can browse around and and try new shows on the different stations.


Surfing is part of it. I wouldn't buy mythbusters, cspan, vh1s top 100 celebrity goof-ups, cops, or USA network movies, but if I flip past them I might watch them for a few minutes.


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## AaRdVarK3 (Aug 12, 2003)

jcblack said:


> Surfing is part of it. I wouldn't buy mythbusters, cspan, vh1s top 100 celebrity goof-ups, cops, or USA network movies, but if I flip past them I might watch them for a few minutes.


We bought my in-laws a TiVo last Christmas, and there's no way that I could ever even begin to try to explain to them how they would use iTV + a Mac + iTMS to replace their cable. They channel surf, and as I said in my earlier post, they are what I would categorize as heavy television consumers. Cable works for them.

For me, and a pretty large portion of my friends, that is not how we watch TV at all. If we want to burn time, we burn it on the internet. We hear about new shows from other people, the websites we read, clips we see on youtube, etc. I'm actually surprised to hear about people "surfing" here at TCF, considering the painful experience most of us have watching live television these days.

TiVo's only advantage is their highly superior software. It's light years ahead of anything on the market, and it's really amazing to me that after all these years, nobody has come close. For me, Apple's uncharacteristic preannouncement of iTV was a shot across the bow saying, "we're coming to the living room."

iTV won't do everything that a Series3 can do, but it's a start. There is a lot of uncertainty surrounding the Series3 long term prospects with CableCard 1.0, MultiStream, 2.0, SDV, blah blah blah, and the fact that once Comcast and Cox go live with TiVo units, the standalone users become a drop in the bucket, it's hard for me to go out and spend $800 on a Series3 (and I drove 200 miles to DC to pick up a HDTiVo for $1000 at Best Buy the day they got it in stock).

If Apple lets me bypass all these hassles, but still preserves the high points of the user experience, I'm all for it. The question is what hassles will it introduce.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

AaRdVarK3 said:


> Now imagine independent TV Shows. How many people paying $1.99/episode would Joss Whedon need to keep Firefly going?


I don't actually know how much of that $1.99 goes to the show producer, but I'm going to use 70% (which is probably high).

70% of $1.99 is ~ $1.39.
Firefly episodes are reported to cost $2 million each.
So 1,438,849 people would need to buy an episode for it to break even.

At its best Firefly got ratings in the 4 million viewers range. I know there are a lot devoted browncoats, but expecting at leat 38% of all the original views to buy each episode might be a bit optimistic.

(Also, this doesn't address the problem that the show needs the money upfront to pay to shoot the episode, or that it is more cost effective to shoot a season at once, but that just requires even more money upfront).

I think for the short term at least, this idea of independent TV will work better for cheaper shows that don't require the special effects, music, and specialized sets that are used in firefly.


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## Stoystown (Jun 13, 2002)

Oh - and by the way - two more words on why Apple will have a tougher time with this:

No p0rn.

Just thought I'd toss that in...


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## TheNumberSix (Jul 8, 2004)

mattack said:


> Your Tivo is always empty so you would rather watch live than watch the HD one later? Just delay 3 hours and watch something else in the meantime.
> 
> I'm not _trying_ to get into the "why does anyone watch live" argument, but esp if you have an HDTV, I would think you would make small accomodations to get the HD version. (I usually only watch something live if there are more things on than I can record, using the TV's tuner.. or more likely just leaving the TV on CNN while I'm going to sleep. Though even then, I often buffer up live TV for a few mins so I can FF through the HEAD ON commercials.)


My TiVo is empty most of the time since I have suggestions turned off and I have around 35 or so season passes which gives me around 1 hour per day of TiVo. (That's an average.)

But as far as my example, it's HBO, there's no commercials. And I just can't wait the three hours to watch the next episode of Deadwood, or The Wire, or Rome, or whatever it happens to be at the time.

I watch it in SD at around 6 PM in SD rather than wait for the HD at 9 PM. The SD version I can pause and such. If I watch it at 9, I can't pause it since it's in HD. And the wife always thinks nothing of interrupting me when watching shows, so I really need the pause.


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## rdowty (Dec 31, 2002)

Long term all DVR's are going to be dinosaurs. You can already see that networks are starting to embrace the idea of users paying for television along the same model as they do music. Eventually TiVo exist as a box that downloads, stores and displays video content instead of one that records from live broadcasts for time shifting. Mostly that depends on how bone headed networks are about DRM. I think they are coming from a slightly different place since they have never charged directly to the customer for individual content other than DVD sales. I'd like to see the ability to get commercial free content.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

rdowty said:


> Long term all DVR's are going to be dinosaurs. You can already see that networks are starting to embrace the idea of users paying for television along the same model as they do music. Eventually TiVo exist as a box that downloads, stores and displays video content instead of one that records from live broadcasts for time shifting.


And then the networks will start subscription services similar to Napster-To-Go where the customer can download shows and save them (but not transfer to any other device) for a monthly fee, and the circle is complete.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

iTV should add wireless DVR functionality and be called.....wait for it.......iTiVo


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

*sigh* with all these components, I think I'll need a new receiver.

There is a new receiver out that I just read about in Sound & Vision magazine that has 4 (!) HDMI inputs, and upscales / upconverts the SD inputs to HDMI output.

For $1200. 

My goodness... I want the iTV - if it will work with Windows (which it probably will). I just hope it has a hardwire network capability.


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## J4yDubs (Jul 3, 2002)

AaRdVarK3 said:


> Granted, this device and TiVo serve different purposes, but at $800, S3 has been targetted towards the early adopters, and this device makes a LOT more sense for somebody like me.


I don't understand why you're comparing the iTV to a S3? The S3's main selling point is that it is a *HD* CableCARD ready DVR. Looking at the specs of this device, if your going to make a comparison to a TiVo (which I still don't think is right), then you should be comparing it to a S2.

This just looks like Apples version of a media extender, which have been available for a while now.

John


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## tenement9 (Nov 9, 2005)

I am an avid mac user/follower. This is noting more than apple's version of a MCE. No, this will not replace my tivo. But this does offer something to most. I love movies, I love watching movies, I love watching movies in HD. So for most of us advanced people, we can copy all our movies to a server (or buy and download), We can store all of our music, We can store all of our pictures. There is a tv tuner for the mac, and there is also one for the pc. But the big thing for apple is this - If it plays in Itunes/Quicktime, it'll play on your tv. Bottom line. But I just love the fact of being able to have VOD in my home. HDD drives are cheaper and cheaper, you can always add space. The Itv just displays whats happening in Itunes. It also auto downloads stuff for your content I.E. - poster, info, etc. You need an add in for MC to do this. One final thing, the only mce that displays hd is xbox 360. But you are limited on formats that you can stream to it. But If it plays in itunes, it plays on Itv. Just my 4 cents. <---ran longer than I expected.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

JasonD said:


> So far I'm just not impressed with Apple's latest offering, oh yes and they want me to pay three hundred dollars for it. Come on they should practically give it away since most of the money they are going to be making is from selling content.


So far I'm just not impressed with Tivo's latest offering, oh yes and they want me to pay eight hundred dollars for it. Come on they should practically give it away since most of the money they are going to be making is from subscriptions.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

DCIFRTHS said:


> I don't think that Apple could come close to what TiVo offers in the DVR space


I think you have that backwards. Apple is one of the ONLY companies that could out-innovate Tivo as far as DVRs. The features would be _ridiculous_. Have you _seen_ iTunes 7?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

classicX said:


> I think you have that backwards. Apple is one of the ONLY companies that could out-innovate Tivo as far as DVRs. The features would be _ridiculous_. Have you _seen_ iTunes 7?


I have not only seen it, I've used it. 

What's so special about it?


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## netposer (Jul 23, 2004)

MickeS said:


> I have not only seen it, I've used it.
> 
> What's so special about it?


Apple made it so it's "Special" and "it has never been done before--ever"


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Jonathan_S said:


> At its best Firefly got ratings in the 4 million viewers range. I know there are a lot devoted browncoats, but expecting at leat 38% of all the original views to buy each episode might be a bit optimistic.


But you're ignoring syndication/cable-showings as well as DVD sales.

I don't think the PPV crowd would have to cover the entire cost, especially if they had syndication/cable deals done from the start. Delay the syndication/cable showings a year or so to give people more incentive to buy up front. (But some will wait, just like I wait for the Sopranos DVDs instead of subscribing to digital + HBO.. Though I would probably still pay for HBO if I could get it analog w/out box, like I used to be able to do.)

I've long suspected something like this would come up. Heck, I'd even probably pay the $2/episode price for something like a new Trek series! (otherwise, I'd rather PPV shows than get a cable feed, but the prices would have to be half to an order of magnitude less.)


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

classicX said:


> I think you have that backwards. Apple is one of the ONLY companies that could out-innovate Tivo as far as DVRs. The features would be _ridiculous_. Have you _seen_ iTunes 7?


Well, then. We'll just have to wait until they actually do that, or even try, and then we can comment on whether or not it will bury TiVo.


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## bigboy (Jan 18, 2003)

(and I'm not)

I would try to figure out how to serve up S3 content through iTV (or iTunes 7 for that matter) by acting as a iTunes client/server. This would be the ultimate TTG setup, and no additional software needed on the Mac or iTV side.


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## AaRdVarK3 (Aug 12, 2003)

bigboy said:


> (and I'm not)
> 
> I would try to figure out how to serve up S3 content through iTV (or iTunes 7 for that matter) by acting as a iTunes client/server. This would be the ultimate TTG setup, and no additional software needed on the Mac or iTV side.


If Apple licensed FairPlay to TiVo, and you could get all your iTunes content (purchased and not) on a S3, I'd get an S3, cause it'd be best of both worlds in one box.

I don't think Apple would go for that, though. There's no reason they don't just build the box.

TiVo is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Even if they wanted to go the content provider route, they need to keep their already fragile relationahip with the cable industry intact in order to support their existing customers and continue their DVR sales. I think the CableCard restrictions are going to make it very difficult for them to provide any consumer friendly innovation, as we've already seen with the S3.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

classicX said:


> So far I'm just not impressed with Tivo's latest offering, oh yes and they want me to pay eight hundred dollars for it. Come on they should practically give it away since most of the money they are going to be making is from subscriptions.


$500/6.95 = 72 months to recoup (guesstimated)hardware costs
TiVo indicated long before this box came out that they intended to show profit from first day of S3 purchase.

If TiVo inc had millions in profits or more after sale revenue streams then I would agree that they should come out a lower price. Given current financials it is just a business 101 decision to make profit from day one of your new premium intro. Whining over the price is just silly.

to state you do not see the value in the S3 for the features it has is fine but TiVo set the price from a business perspective of making profit on the bottom line and expect to sell enough to achieve their numbers with people wanting to be early adopters who expect to pay a premium. TiVo has it in their business plan of a large group not seeing value in the product just yet.

I am in the same boat as you. I have held off on digital/HD because I do not feel like paying a premium for it. My plan has been late 2007 for HD and after some thinking on it I do not see the current $199 lifetime transfer changing my mind on that. I pay 6.95 now and will just drop the monthly Series 2 when I upgrade to HD. If the price drops before end of lifetime transfer offer I will think about it again, till then the price is set for a profit and that is that.

and now apple has plans to sell a media extender (iTV) for 100$ less than an XBOX360 but that price is not getting ripped, nor is Apple getting blasted for not having it out already 

PS - iTunes on S3 would also make me rethink getting an S3 at 800$


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

bigboy said:


> (and I'm not)
> 
> I would try to figure out how to serve up S3 content through iTV (or iTunes 7 for that matter) by acting as a iTunes client/server. This would be the ultimate TTG setup, and no additional software needed on the Mac or iTV side.


Count me as someone who isn't even remotely interested in such a feature.

I hope they concetrate, instead, on getting TTG/TTCB/MRV etc working flawlessly for recorded material with the S3. And bring me movies and special interest programming in high quality via a subscription model. No holy-alliance with a company that is overly restrictive and sells only overpriced products, please 

I never have, and don't ever intend to buy any iTunes/iTV media. Just not worth it to me, as a way to get programming/music. I don't care to own music I like (XM radio is excellent AFAI'm concerned) and I intend to continue paying for a plethora of channels/packages as long as it can keep the NPL on whatever TiVo/s I use more-than-full-enough for me to ever catch up on. Any more video/TV shows would be ridiculous overkill. Especially if I have to payper-episode!


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## sjvn (Jun 2, 2005)

AaRdVarK3 said:


> Granted, this device and TiVo serve different purposes, but at $800, S3 has been targetted towards the early adopters, and this device makes a LOT more sense for somebody like me.
> 
> Any comments?


They're really different devices for different audiences. The Series 3 is for people who want to record HDTV. The iTV is for people who want to buy and view TV.

In short, the Series 3 is the next small step forward in DVRs, while the iTV is the next big step, to my mind, in replacing DVDs.

Steven


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## dcomiskey (Jan 3, 2005)

I don't have any opinions about the iTV just yet, but I think Tivo is burying itself by overpricing the S3 and ignoring our please to fix that POS patch they forced on us a month ago and still haven't fixed.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

sjvn said:


> They're really different devices for different audiences. The Series 3 is for people who want to record HDTV. The iTV is for people who want to buy and view TV.
> 
> In short, the Series 3 is the next small step forward in DVRs, while the iTV is the next big step, to my mind, in replacing DVDs.
> 
> Steven


Actually, the iTV could be the next big step in changing the entire content distribution model.

Very close to the ala carte cable subscriptions model that has been pushed but never amounted to anything. Not there yet, but the groundwork is certaintly there.


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## michaelb1 (Sep 21, 2006)

iTV will have DVR functions. Watch and see.
We know it is IP enabled, streams video wirelessly from computer, has all manner of video out.

Do you think Steve jobs thought 5 minutes into the future and figured out that his programmers could write a better UI than TIVO?
Apple CEO Jeff Iger confirmed that iTV will have a small hard drive.

I think this hard drive will be just big enough to hold the GUI and programs databae that the iTV will download daily (probaby from iTunes store)

So, we know the iTV will pull movies, videos from your home Mac/PC and play them on your TV.

I think the big secret is that the iTV will also have a DVR GUI built in with your home PC as the storage device for the program you choose to record.

I look forward to controlling my iTV DVR with my apple remote, and having it download BattleStar Galactica to my iMac.
Than when I choose, stream BattleStar galactica to my iTV from my iMac.

SWEET!

Now TIVO is screwed.

PS 
I love my TIVO, wish I could make it work with my Verizon FIOS sans IR blaster.


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## bilbo (Dec 7, 2004)

michaelb1 said:


> iTV will have DVR functions. Watch and see.
> We know it is IP enabled, streams video wirelessly from computer, has all manner of video out.
> 
> Do you think Steve jobs thought 5 minutes into the future and figured out that his programmers could write a better UI than TIVO?
> ...


i'm not sure if apple is really building the itv as a dvr "lite" (I don't think it is going to be anything more than a glorified video-rather-than-music airport), but if they do i wouldn't be surprised if they are trying to encrypt the video files, so that they will only play on an ipod. however, i doubt that content providers will allow apple to let people put their (i.e. abc's, hbo's, etc.) video on ipod's for "free" (not counting the cost of the itv, but with no additional $ to abc et al.) exclusively for apple's benefit. of course, the zune wi-fi sharing is seeming pretty bewildering to me also (how ms is getting columbia et al. permission to do what they are doing, which seems to benefit ms for the most part).


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

Since the iTV, as shown, doesn't have any A/V inputs, it cannot be a DVR. Period.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

michaelb1 said:


> I look forward to controlling my iTV DVR with my apple remote, and having it download BattleStar Galactica to my iMac.
> Than when I choose, stream BattleStar galactica to my iTV from my iMac.


You'll be able to do that - just pay $1.99 for it on iTunes.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

megazone said:


> Since the iTV, as shown, doesn't have any A/V inputs, it cannot be a DVR. Period.


Its a client device for the TV. Perhaps their will be server tuner devices that connect to ethernet like maybe a Tivo.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

TiVo showed a pay-per-download video feature years ago. They have all the infrastructure in place to deliver video via IP to a lot of TVs. 

It's not clear why they've never jumped into that with both feet. However hawt the applephiles may think a dumb extender for their mac is, a DVR that can deliver the content directly to the TV without requiring a PC and also gives the option of picking up programming through conventional sources would have much broader application.

So what has been the hold up? It may be that even with their presence in the living room TiVo doesn't have the clout or the capital to get the licensing agreements with content providers to make it worthwhile. But if the market for this opens up, TiVo is very well positioned to be a player.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

michaelb1 said:


> ...
> 
> Do you think Steve jobs thought 5 minutes into the future and figured out that his programmers could write a better UI than TIVO?


What kind of an idiotic statement is this? Steve Jobs is an evangelist, and he should hand out the collection tray at his "announcements". I hear that Apple is considering filing for tax exempt status as a religion...


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

zalusky said:


> Its a client device for the TV. Perhaps their will be server tuner devices that connect to ethernet like maybe a Tivo.


Ahh, brilliant ... and would Apple also like me to buy a kitchen sink or two from them, while I'm at it?

Where did they learn their marketting/planning (if, indeed, they plan on selling a 'DVR-server' device) ... from the Sony school of nickel-and-dime?


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## NotVeryWitty (Oct 3, 2003)

megazone said:


> Since the iTV, as shown, doesn't have any A/V inputs, it cannot be a DVR. Period.


There are other ways to get video and audio into it besides A/V inputs, like hanging a tuner/encoder off the USB port. Of course they would need to find a way to put a lot more storage on it too.

(I'm not arguing that Apple is actually going to do this, just disagreeing with your blanket statement that it *cannot* be done.)


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

ashu said:


> Ahh, brilliant ... and would Apple also like me to buy a kitchen sink or two from them, while I'm at it?
> 
> Where did they learn their marketting/planning (if, indeed, they plan on selling a 'DVR-server' device) ... from the Sony school of nickel-and-dime?


Same place everybody else did. How would you feel if you had to buy a system with stuff you didnt want. Besides my idea is scaleable. You want more tuners to record more shows at the same time, just add some more.

Maybe you would like to put all your cable or satellite tuners in a place thats convienient like in a closet or the garage and not have to drag those pesky satellite cables to your myriad of TVs.


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## isbellHFh (Nov 6, 2003)

AaRdVarK3 said:


> They can call it whatever they want, this device is essentially an airport express video with a remote control.


Say... that's a good point.

That actually makes this much more attractive to me.

I already have my DirecTiVO HD in my basement distributing throughout my house along with an airport express. I could replace the airport express with iTV and I'd have remote control access to videos and music. This matters to me. If nothing else, it would give me a better way to show my two year old all of her favorite Schoolhouse Rock videos than the one I have now. Right now, she sits in my lap and watches them on my computer. I can't just put the DVD in because then I'm clicking around every three minutes. Having a video playlist for her (and all the Dora the Explorers) available anywhere around the house would be great.

Hm. I wasn't interested before, but this almost makes sense.

On the other hand, I have to say that buying my movies and tv shows online doesn't work for me, at least at 480p. Give me HD and I could imagine doing this.

See, here's my problem: I'm going to have to drop DirectTV soon enough anyway once I can no longer use the 250. I was assuming this would mean S3 and moving to the hated Comcast (my hate for Comcast goes way back, and I've earned my right to ***** about them) here in Atlanta, but if Steve can give me HD quality on demand and perhaps a subscription model of some sort (a "season pass" for $35 kind of thing) then I'd do that. And no more conflicts! Right now, I swear I need four tuners instead of two for my TiVo. This would solve that....

Dude, give me my video aiport express at HD quality. And give me access to TV shows and movies at that quality. GIVE THEM TO ME NOW.

Peace.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

MickeS said:


> You mean TWO cablecard slots?
> 
> And the answer is: it's not that easy. But most of all... Apple is NOT INTERESTED in making it easier for people to record TV. I don't know why year after year now these Apple DVR fantasies keep coming up.


That's pretty much my feeling on the subject. I'm a huge Apple fan and while this thing sounds like a neat toy, it's not anywhere close to making me give up my S3 and cable. It's not at all what I'm looking for in terms of a DVR, nor, I suspect will it ever be. I do like for Comcast to have any type of competition though and I applaud Jobs for what is essentially a really cool little device. Will it kill Cable and replace DVR's? Not a chance.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

OK people, let all calm down and enjoy this rumor from the PVRblog, which you all read. Oh, my mistake, if you did read it, this thread would not be here. 

*Wild rumor: Apple & TiVo partner for iTV*

I'm going to disclaim this upfront as a wild rumor that just landed in my inbox. I'd wager it's got about a 25% chance of being true but hey, I'd love to be wrong on it and see what launches next month at Macworld SF. Here's the rumor:

Apple will be licensing TiVo patented technology for iTV. Also, the name iTV has changed to Mac Media Capsule

I tried to find some shred of evidence this could be true. I took a look at pending Apple and TiVo patents and there's only one patent application owned by Apple that mentions TiVo, and it's in relation to buying a whole TV season at the iTunes store. Last summer TiVo was hiring Mac programmers, but I figured that was just for TiVo Desktop support. I couldn't find anything concrete.

Again, this is a crazy rumor with nothing to back it up and I'd be really surprised if any Apple device recorded TV, much less running the TiVo OS on it, but damn, if this is true, I would love to own such a device.

I do have to say the entire iTV concept as previously described is a little thin. People won't pay a couple hundred bucks just to have a device that plays iTunes Store purchases on their TV -- it has to do other stuff, but will it be TiVo recording TV for you? In that teeny form factor? I guess we'll know when Macworld happens in San Francisco on January 9, 2007.


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## minckster (Aug 31, 2006)

Wild rumor link: http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2006/12/wild_rumor_appl.html

(My apologies if I missed the link in the prior post.)


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