# Romio plus and 4 mini's - wiring suggestions please!



## marklyn (Jan 21, 2002)

My head is spinning and I could really use some help.
I currently have 4 DVR satellite receivers, each with dual coax back to the dish and each with an ethernet connection back to my router. I plan on switching to Romio, 4 minis and cable TV very soon but I have a dilemma.

I want to set up a Romio plus and 4 mini's but I'm concerned that connecting all of the mini's to the Romio and streaming to 2-3 of them might cause internet bandwidth issues for my network. I'm looking for a way to isolate the traffic between the mini's and the Romio so my LAN is minimally affected when streaming from Romio to one (or more) minis.

With all of the excess coax I'll have left over and an ethernet drop at each mini location, can I create a configuration where an ethernet hub is servicing all of the mini's and keeping the streaming traffic off the LAN?
Or, could I use coax to go to each mini, thus avoiding the LAN altogether?

If someone can find a diagram of what I'm trying to do, I'm very visual and that would help a lot.

I've searched for wiring diagrams but haven't found anything yet specific to what I'm wanting so I'm turning to experienced users to help me figure this out.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

It should not matter. Many folks here are using many minis all at the same time. I would suggest not solving a problem unless it becomes one!


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## marklyn (Jan 21, 2002)

jrtroo said:


> It should not matter. Many folks here are using many minis all at the same time. I would suggest not solving a problem unless it becomes one!


With all due respect, I'd really like a response to the question. My home network setup is likely above average for a typical home user. I have 4 desktop computers, two running 24/7 due to weather related updates one one being a file server. I also have 10 video cameras tied into my network, 5 of which record motion on the file server. This doesn't account for normal internet activity that family members use. Needless to say there is a very decent amount of network traffic on my LAN and there have already been peak times when it's noticed.

Now that I have the opportunity to set up a new configuration, I'd like to do so in a way that minimizes (contains) any influence on my regular network.
I believe this to be a reasonable and prudent way to plan, but maybe that's just me.


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## Jeremy5 (Dec 18, 2007)

marklyn said:


> Or, could I use coax to go to each mini, thus avoiding the LAN altogether?


Yes, it sounds like the built in MoCa would meet your requirements just fine.

https://www.tivo.com/my-account/how-to/what-moca


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## marklyn (Jan 21, 2002)

Jeremy5 said:


> Yes, it sounds like the built in MoCa would meet your requirements just fine.
> 
> https://www.tivo.com/my-account/how-to/what-moca


Jeremy, I've seen that link before but I'm still not understanding the wiring path of the coax. For example, the coax coming into my house goes to my cable modem, would I split it there and connect it to the Romio as well? If I do that how will I connect coax from the Romio to the mini's. I cannot find that level of detail on the website you sent nor the links, but I'll look again.


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## lgnad (Feb 14, 2013)

marklyn said:


> Jeremy, I've seen that link before but I'm still not understanding the wiring path of the coax. For example, the coax coming into my house goes to my cable modem, would I split it there and connect it to the Romio as well? If I do that how will I connect coax from the Romio to the mini's. I cannot find that level of detail on the website you sent nor the links, but I'll look again.


If you use Moca, streaming shows to your minis will have no traffic flowing over ethernet.

Ok, so all you need, wiring-wise is:

One coax wire, run just like you were going to set up cable boxes at each tv... 
-on the coax coming from the cable co. First you use a two way splitter. On one branch of that split, connect it to your cable modem. On the other side of the split, put another (in your case a 5-way) splitter that connects to the coax running to all of the tivos.

-Connect the Roameo to ethernet and coax. After its configured, settled in, with a few calls home, updates, reboots, cablecard setup, etc... go into settings and turn on Moca.

-connect the coax only to each mini. During setup of each they should see the Moca network and just work, pulling everything over the coax.

Couple of pointers: 
-Is the coax is ancient, you might have problems.
-If the 5 way splitter is rated for too low a frequency, your signal might be too attenuated and Moca might be problematic.
-its suggested to use a poe filter to prevent the moca networking signal from going out of your house. Just install it between the splitters in my confg, or if not accessable, right where the cable comes in from the cable co. Theoretically allows faster, cleaner Moca signalling... But mine runs around 235mbps and no errors without one installed.... Which is close to the max throughput <shrug>
-you can get a Poe filter for <$10 delivered from ebay. Gotta install mine one of these days!


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## marklyn (Jan 21, 2002)

lgnad said:


> If you use Moca, streaming shows to your minis will have no traffic flowing over ethernet.
> 
> Ok, so all you need, wiring-wise is:
> 
> ...


Ignad, you are the man! You explained it perfectly to me and I now realize I was over complicating it in my mind. Thank you very much!
All of the coax in my house is about 2 years old and the heavy/thick kind. I forget the rating but I know it's more than the average cable.

Follow up questions if I may:
POE filter, are they all the same? Can you point me out to 1-2 different ones so I can check on ebay?
Regarding splitter, I want to get the right ones, can you also recommend those as well? I'm not understanding frequency requirements so spoon feeding me this info would be appreciated.
Again, Thanks!


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## BruceShultes (Oct 2, 2006)

This is one on amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Filter-MoCA-Cable-Coaxial-Networking/dp/B00DC8IEE6/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1383781874&sr=1-1&keywords=poe+filter


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

If you are running a gigabit network you shouldn't have any issues over ethernet. I'm running ten cameras here plus dozens of other network devices without issue. 

Although I do have things physically segmented on my network since I run unmanaged gigabit switches. So the TiVos and TiVo Desktop PC are on a segment and the cameras are also on another. My media players, PCs and other devices are on a third, while my APs are on a fourth segment.

So the devices only communicate outside their network segment if they send/receive data over the internet, or communicate with a device on another segment.


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## marklyn (Jan 21, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> If you are running a gigabit network you shouldn't have any issues over ethernet. I'm running ten cameras here plus dozens of other network devices without issue.
> 
> Although I do have things physically segmented on my network since I run unmanaged gigabit switches. So the TiVos and TiVo Desktop PC are on a segment and the cameras are also on another. My media players, PCs and other devices are on a third, while my APs are on a fourth segment.
> 
> So the devices only communicate outside their network segment if they send/receive data over the internet, or communicate with a device on another segment.


All good stuff, thanks for the input, keep it coming.
I'm going to go with the moca setup since I've already got good dual coax in all the rooms.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Coax is the way to go since you've already got all that wire run. MoCA POE filters are pretty much all the same. A cheap one on ebay is fine.

Splitters should be rated for at least 1000 MHz (1 GHz) but ideally higher.

This thread may be useful too:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=501722


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## NJguy (Sep 11, 2013)

I have a Plus and 2 minis with 6 computers and Optimum Ultra 101 (the fastest you can get). I will tell you that a couple of times I have lost connection to mini a couple of times. Generally going to the TiVo menu and then back to live tv fixes it but I'm thinking for you going MoCa would be best option. I think I'm going to go to MoCa and see what happens.


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## marklyn (Jan 21, 2002)

NJguy said:


> I have a Plus and 2 minis with 6 computers and Optimum Ultra 101 (the fastest you can get). I will tell you that a couple of times I have lost connection to mini a couple of times. Generally going to the TiVo menu and then back to live tv fixes it but I'm thinking for you going MoCa would be best option. I think I'm going to go to MoCa and see what happens.


That was a concern I had NJGuy. I have a satellite DVR setup now where I've got a lot of stuff on my LAN (streaming vid cams, satellite DVR's, etc.) and occasionally my whole home satellite DVR setup has to be restarted for what I'm thinking has been more bandwidth being sucked up. At any rate, going the moca route will totally eliminate any potential streaming from tivo to tivo boxes anyway.


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## marklyn (Jan 21, 2002)

OK, now that I think I understand this I've drawn up a cabling plan. Please let me know if this looks correct. Appreciate any additional input or suggestions as well.


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## Lrscpa (Apr 20, 2003)

POE Filters less expensive directly from TiVo.

https://www.tivo.com/shop/detail/moca-poe


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Lrscpa said:


> POE Filters less expensive directly from TiVo.
> 
> https://www.tivo.com/shop/detail/moca-poe


Considering what TiVo charges for shipping it's close to being a wash.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

marklyn said:


> OK, now that I think I understand this I've drawn up a cabling plan. Please let me know if this looks correct. Appreciate any additional input or suggestions as well.


Your diagram looks fine but technically you want the poe filter to actually be on the main leg into the network, the one you have marked "time warner". That will prevent the MoCA network from back feeding under any circumstances out to the other side of your home.


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## marklyn (Jan 21, 2002)

jmpage2 said:


> Your diagram looks fine but technically you want the poe filter to actually be on the main leg into the network, the one you have marked "time warner". That will prevent the MoCA network from back feeding under any circumstances out to the other side of your home.


I'm not sure I understand. I thought placing the POE filter in the location it's at would also prevent back feeding into my network and contain all traffic within the Roamio and mini's segment. If I put it where you're suggesting, wouldn't there then be the possibility of this happening?


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## lgnad (Feb 14, 2013)

Lrscpa said:


> POE Filters less expensive directly from TiVo.
> 
> https://www.tivo.com/shop/detail/moca-poe


Last night I did a quick search.... $7.50 delivered from eBay.

Tivo charges more than that in shipping!


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

I'd agree about moving the POE back to the main drop.

Then, you could have a 6-way splitter at the point of entry to give yourself a better signal to all the tivo boxes, rather than the redundancy of an extra splitter that would reduce signal strength... if physically possible.

Also, Time Warner may require the use of a tuning adapter at the DVR. This is the recommended setup for the Tuning Adapter. (Basically, don't use the RF out on the tuning adapter. This will allow moca to bypass the tuning adapter).


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## marklyn (Jan 21, 2002)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> I'd agree about moving the POE back to the main drop.
> 
> Then, you could have a 6-way splitter at the point of entry to give yourself a better signal to all the tivo boxes, rather than the redundancy of an extra splitter that would reduce signal strength.


Hmmm. Ok, I'll move it but I did hear/read recently that it was supposed to be better to split the coax coming in, 1 going to your cable modem and the other going to another splitter for your network. I can't find the info I found on this but I understood it to be better for your LAN network. Course, splitters are cheap enough that I could try out both ways.
Anyone have any experience for this question?


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## marklyn (Jan 21, 2002)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Also, Time Warner may require the use of a tuning adapter at the DVR. This is the recommended setup for the Tuning Adapter. (Basically, don't use the RF out on the tuning adapter. This will allow moca to bypass the tuning adapter).


Ohhh, I missed that part. How would I know ahead of time that my Time Warner in Austin would require me to have a tuning adapter. Is this likely something I can call their drones and ask (I'd rather take a beating though)?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

marklyn said:


> Ohhh, I missed that part. How would I know ahead of time that my Time Warner in Austin would require me to have a tuning adapter. Is this likely something I can call their drones and ask (I'd rather take a beating though)?


I'm almost positive you'll need a TA. I believe they're free. I guess you would request it when you order the cablecard/service. Not sure if they give them automatically with cablecards or not.



marklyn said:


> Hmmm. Ok, I'll move it but I did hear/read recently that it was supposed to be better to split the coax coming in, 1 going to your cable modem and the other going to another splitter for your network. I can't find the info I found on this but I understood it to be better for your LAN network. Course, splitters are cheap enough that I could try out both ways.
> Anyone have any experience for this question?


Ah, good point. But yeah, you can try it both ways. If a 6-way splitter would weaken the internet signal too much, you can go your way.


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## lgnad (Feb 14, 2013)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> I'd agree about moving the POE back to the main drop.
> 
> Then, you could have a 6-way splitter at the point of entry to give yourself a better signal to all the tivo boxes, rather than the redundancy of an extra splitter that would reduce signal strength... if physically possible.
> 
> Also, Time Warner may require the use of a tuning adapter at the DVR. This is the recommended setup for the Tuning Adapter. (Basically, don't use the RF out on the tuning adapter. This will allow moca to bypass the tuning adapter).


Well, We don't care about the cable tv signal strength at the minis. They are pulling from/through the ROAMio via the Moca network.

Cable companies usually do the layout I suggested, so that the cable modem gets plenty of signal strength. Putting it on a six way sounds like a recipe for disaster.

If the signal strength to the ROAMio is a concern, I'd consider:
Feed from cable - POE filter - three way splitter, with the modem on one leg, the ROAMio on the 2nd, and a four way splitter going to the minis on the 3rd.

(Very very) Occasionally the Moca signal back-feeding into cable modems messes up the networking speeds, if so a 2nd filter on its leg _might_ be needed.

Actually, since I can't find a five-way splitter after a quick search, I guess that's the way to go. Lol Suprised no one pointed out that error on my part!


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

lgnad said:


> If the signal strength to the ROAMio is a concern, I'd consider:
> Feed from cable - POE filter - three way splitter, with the modem on one leg, the ROAMio on the 2nd, and a four way splitter going to the minis on the 3rd.


You're right, this would be better since the Minis are only getting moca. Better still since the Roamio leg would be split again because of the TA.

marklyn, forget what I said earlier. This is a way better plan. Go with this. Lol.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

marklyn said:


> I'm not sure I understand. I thought placing the POE filter in the location it's at would also prevent back feeding into my network and contain all traffic within the Roamio and mini's segment. If I put it where you're suggesting, wouldn't there then be the possibility of this happening?


You misunderstand the purpose of the poe filter. It is not normally used to isolate the MoCA network from your own coax network, it is used to isolate and prevent feedback between your home coax network (all segments) and the external cable company network.

MoCa operates on a frequency that shouldn't interfere with anything in your home... however, it CAN cause feedback (reflections, etc) when it hits the cable company provider equipment outside of your home. Not using one also opens up the potential that if you are on a common coaxial segment outside of the home, others could pick up and access your MoCA network.


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## rcase13 (Sep 2, 2013)

This thread has inspired me to buy another NETGEAR GS108 switch and isolate my TiVo network to it. I don't use MoCa. The reason why is Ethernet is cleaner to me.

In the OP's diagram I don't see Ethernet to the MINIs. Don't you need Ethernet as well as Coax?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

rcase13 said:


> In the OP's diagram I don't see Ethernet to the MINIs. Don't you need Ethernet as well as Coax?


Not needed. All Roamio-to-Mini communications can be over coax. That's the benefit of a moca network.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

rcase13 said:


> This thread has inspired me to buy another NETGEAR GS108 switch and isolate my TiVo network to it. I don't use MoCa. The reason why is Ethernet is cleaner to me.
> 
> In the OP's diagram I don't see Ethernet to the MINIs. Don't you need Ethernet as well as Coax?


How are you isolating it exactly? If you trunk that new switch back to the other switch in order for internet access to work you really haven't isolated anything unless you've built a new VLAN for the TiVo network.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

jmpage2 said:


> How are you isolating it exactly? If you trunk that new switch back to the other switch in order for internet access to work you really haven't isolated anything unless you've built a new VLAN for the TiVo network.


You can physically isolate it. Any of the TiVos communicating on that segment will not go through the router. it will only go through the router to go to/from the internet or to get to another device on the network on a different segment. Since the majority of the high bandwidth data is between the TiVos, it isolates that traffic to that physical segment.

So for intstance I have an Asus router with four ports. Each of those four ports goes to a five or 8 port switch. And that forms the four segment sof my network. Now each of those switches have other siwtches connected to it. But any traffic on those four switches will stay on that network segment. Unless it traffic goes to/from the internet which will go through the switch in the router or a device in one segment communicates with a device on a different segment.

So I could have a pair of PCs on each segment and each pair of PCs could concurrently transfer content at 900Mb/s+ speeds between each other because the traffic on each segment will not go through the router.

Several years ago I had to set up my network this way because I have so many devices on it that I started having issues. It was either do this or purchase manageable gear. So I chose the soltuion that dd not cost me any extra money. And it has worked out very well with all the data I have going back and forth between devices.


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## pautler (Oct 10, 2013)

It sounds like you're all set and you're going with MOCA, but keep in mind that an ethernet *switch* is different from an ethernet *hub* in that the traffic is only sent out the ports that need it (whereas a *hub* is a repeater that sends all traffic out all ports). Everything is switches these days.

For example, if you have an 5port switch with connections as follows:
port1 - Roamio
port2 - Mini1
port3 - Mini2
port4 - PC
port5 - Uplink to Internet and/or other switches

Mini1 can be streaming from the Roamio and that traffic will only show up on ports 1 & 2. At the same time, Mini2 can be streaming from the Roamio and that traffic will only show up on ports 1 & 3. Of course, as you can see there, both of those streams will be present on port 1... but bandwidth is really not a concern at all since you would likely have a 100Mbps or 1Gbps switch. While both of those Minis are streaming from the Roamio, your PC can be sending traffic to/from the Internet, and that traffic will only be seen on ports 4 & 5 (and neither of those ports will see any of the traffic from the streaming sessions between the Roamio and the Minis.

Back in the old days of ethernet hubs, all traffic was flooded out all ports. But switches are smart enough to know which devices are connected to which ports, and they only send the traffic out the ports that need it.

-Joe


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

I'm quite proficient in networking, and yes, if you put all the TiVo devices on a separate data switch then you've created a new physical segment to isolate the TiVo traffic. From a broadcast domain perspective though you still have both switches in one broadcast segment or VLAN.... in most production networks, broadcasts are actually a major source of 'network crawl' once a segment grows into a large number of devices. All unicast traffic will go through the specific network ports that the devices are attached to, but all broadcasts (and multicasts) will go through the entire physical switch network, regardless of how many switches you've connected together.

Also, a decent gigabit ethernet switch (managed or otherwise) should have more than enough throughput to handle a few TiVos streaming as well as all of the other local network traffic.

I guess if you actually experience problems then moving some of the gear to a new network segment would be a good first step, although I would concentrate on other things that are "always on" such as CCTV cameras before worrying about TiVos that might only spend a few hours a day pushing network traffic.


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## pautler (Oct 10, 2013)

jmpage2 said:


> From a broadcast domain perspective though you still have both switches in one broadcast segment or VLAN.... in most production networks, broadcasts are actually a major source of 'network crawl' once a segment grows into a large number of devices.


Yes, but "large" in that case is many hundreds of devices.

And, just a point of clarification (as I'm sure you know), the devices don't need to be connected to different switches in order to isolate the traffic, just different switch ports.

-Joe


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## marklyn (Jan 21, 2002)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> You're right, this would be better since the Minis are only getting moca. Better still since the Roamio leg would be split again because of the TA.
> 
> marklyn, forget what I said earlier. This is a way better plan. Go with this. Lol.


I'm going to order my Roamio this week and could use some advice on purchasing a POE filter + 2 way splitter + 3 way splitter + 4 way splitter. I've found these items on ebay but I'm not seeing enough description to know if the frequency range is correct. 1000 Mhz for POE filter (or more) and 2500 Mhz for splitters.

I'd appreciate some advice what to buy and any web links. I don't mind spending a couple of bucks extra if what I'm getting is higher quality.

would the 2, 3 & 4 way splitters on this page be good, average, bad? http://stores.ebay.com/Cmple/_i.html?_nkw=splitter&submit=Search&_sid=34741409
Is there a particular brand of splitters that is better?


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## pshivers (Nov 4, 2013)

marklyn said:


> I'm going to order my Roamio this week and could use some advice on purchasing a POE filter + 2 way splitter + 3 way splitter + 4 way splitter. I've found these items on ebay but I'm not seeing enough description to know if the frequency range is correct. 1000 Mhz for POE filter (or more) and 2500 Mhz for splitters.
> 
> I'd appreciate some advice what to buy and any web links. I don't mind spending a couple of bucks extra if what I'm getting is higher quality.
> 
> ...


I've used the following splitters from Antronix with very good results, the rating is to 1002 mHz but that is really not a concern for MoCA as it is designed to work with these type of splitters that are commonly used by the major Cable Companies.

CMC2002H 2-Way Splitter
CMC2003H 3-Way Splitter
CMC2004H 4-Way Splitter

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...ix splitter&sprefix=Antronix+splitter,aps,318

The $9 POE MoCA filter from Tivo works just fine.

One thing I learned while getting my own MoCA network running over the past two months was to not overthink things, MoCa is designed to work with the existing coax in 90% of America's homes!

The only real gotcha I ran into was a powered amplifier (Charter Installed) in the middle of my home coax wiring that was blocking the MoCA signal from getting to two of my bedrooms, replaced it with with one of the 2-way splitters mentioned above and all was well! I also had two separate drops coming into my house from the cable company, one for the Main TV and Internet/Telephone and the other for the bedrooms and Man Cave. This was an attempt to solve a tuning problem on my Tivo Roamio Pro Charter did that did not make a difference. I combined everything into a single drop so that my MoCA network was no longer going all the way out to the pole and back to connect to all my MoCA devices (makes for a flaky MoCA network connection doing that!). Once I was on one drop I installed the POE MoCA filter at that drop. In the future I may use the 2nd leftover drop for just my Internet and Telephone connections, but I'll have to install a new coax home run to them bypassing the Main TV coax.

Charter did a lot of run and split coax runs in my home instead of doing full home runs to each room from the utility box. My 3 bedroom coax run has a total of 3 splitters inline before it finally gets to the last bedroom! I may make it a summer project to make new home coax runs to all rooms from the cable utility box just because it would make me feel better, my MoCA network is working great as is so there is no "Real" reason to change it at this time!

Good luck with your install, I think you will find it is very close to simple "Plug n' Play" with what I have read about your own infrastructure...


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