# DISH is on a mission



## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Check out latest DISH news - gives all HD enthusiasts real food for thought.

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/news/2006/06/dish_network_ex.php


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## ayrton911 (Sep 4, 2000)

If it wasn't for still having TiVo for the time being at DirecTV and being grandfathered on networks, I would switch to DishNetwork. They have great programming, and the equipment is not that bad. Not TiVo, but better than DirecTV DVR. 

Of course, if DirecTV puts out a reasonable HD DVR with MPEG4, they'll be able to add lots of HD eventually. Dish is just beating them by a year or so.


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

Now that I am fresh out of my commitment with DTV I will have to look at this offer. I want HD and the means to time shift it, but I am not jumping yet I still would like to see what Comcast and TiVo come up with. NGHD is a great addition, but my concern with all of these HD channels is how much content they actually have. Reading Dish Forums it is always the same complaint, yes they offer the most channels, but one can only watch the same programs over and over so many times. It does seem Dish is making a point to add channels as soon as they can, while Comcast and DTV drag their feet.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

are there any 'objective' comparisons out there of the dish dvr vs tivo? Everyone has something that's important to them of course so which is 'better' is purely subjective. 

I have more than enough OTA HD to watch that I'm not concerned about anything else at this point. But always like to plan for down the road.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Has anyone out there used HdTivo and the VIP622 and\or the MOTO6412 III? It would be helpful to hear how the Dish Dvr compares with HDTivo or MOTO reregarding dvr guide and recording speed and more importantly pq of HD and SD programming. Thanks.


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## frankygamer (Mar 19, 2002)

I just officially left D* for Dish. Had d* for 6 years or so with two HR10's since available and SD units (DVR80). I have had the Vip622 for a month now. 

The Vip622 is not a Tivo. I find myself struggling to get where I want to be sometimes(menus). But IMHO this inconvenience is easily forgotten with ~30 HD channels. No one will like all of them but I think anyone would like a handful. Yes, only one OTA tuner in the Vip622 sucks so I got two. A series 3 for OTA would be handy now.

Things like guide speed were never important to me but the Vip622 is much faster. No equivalent of folders(not like that matters). PQ is the same or better. Having to only run one cable per DVR was a nice surprise too(splitter at the box). No regrets so far.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

frankygamer said:


> I just officially left D* for Dish. Had d* for 6 years or so with two HR10's since available and SD units (DVR80). I have had the Vip622 for a month now.
> 
> The Vip622 is not a Tivo. I find myself struggling to get where I want to be sometimes(menus). But IMHO this inconvenience is easily forgotten with ~30 HD channels. No one will like all of them but I think anyone would like a handful. Yes, only one OTA tuner in the Vip622 sucks so I got two. A series 3 for OTA would be handy now.
> 
> Things like guide speed were never important to me but the Vip622 is much faster. No equivalent of folders(not like that matters). PQ is the same or better. Having to only run one cable per DVR was a nice surprise too(splitter at the box). No regrets so far.


How can it split at the box? Doesn't Dish have the same multiswitch issues with a single cable that DirecTV has?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

AbMagFab said:


> How can it split at the box? Doesn't Dish have the same multiswitch issues with a single cable that DirecTV has?


It requires "Dish Pro Plus" dish/multiswitch equipment and a compatible receiver.... though there's devices to get to split the signal externally to feed older receivers.


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## frankygamer (Mar 19, 2002)

May be a bad comparison, but its like a built in stacker. Have the DISH1000 which has 2 outputs but supports 4 tuners. So hopefully I won't have to be adding more cable anytime soon. Some other nice things are PIP and the ever controversial "recording time remaining". 

Biggest negative is Dish doesn't seem as self-upgradable wrt to the HDD. One of my HR10 was running dual 300GB. Not much I can find to do with Dish. They are coming out with USB storage so maybe that will get the ball rolling when they ask big $$$ for a USB drive kit and <$100 HDD


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

1 OTA tuner bites. I have 2 hdtivos specifically to record 4 ota for some conflicts. And until dtv has locals in just as solid as my ota, i can tell i'd be disappointed in the dish unit.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

1 OTA tuner would be a deal breaker for me...


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

frankygamer said:


> PQ is the same or better. No regrets so far.


How is the PQ on mpeg4 channels? I have read that some were dissapointed with pq of some channels that were mpeg4. Also - I have read that much of the programming on Nat Geo Hd was broadcast in 4:3 and pq was poor. Have you checked out these channels? Thanks.


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## frankygamer (Mar 19, 2002)

Yes, as I said 1 OTA tuner sucks. Lets move on.......... The unit can record on all 3 tuners at once so the one OTA tuner is always freed up. 

Honestly, I don't know which channels are MPEG-4 vs 2. I've found conflicting info. Of the new channels, I've only checked out Starz HD for any length of time and it looks fine. Nat Geo is looks fine too right now. I think it just depends on the show. I have no idea their % of HD vs upconverted SD. It seems a bit early to judge the new channels


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

is their hbo hd just as blocky as dtvs? Just watched a hd movie and i never see that kind of blocking on ota. it's during scene changes and fast movement


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## gb33 (Jul 23, 2005)

WOW! This is exactly my dilema and what brought me here tonight. 
I have been with DTV for about 4 years and as expected am very familiar with it and have nothing bad to say about it. Except I do not care for XM radio channels. I do not currently have the HD plan, although I did in the past, but found it not to be worth the cost for 3 channels worth watching occasionally airing HD programming. I have two DTivo boxes with 2 tuners in each.
With all of the "bundle savings" currently offered through AT&T and Dish Network, my wife and I have been contemplating switching. I would get the new HD DVR that controls 2 TV's along with the HD package. The kicker is we were told by a couple of CSR's that there is NO upgrade fee for the HD DVR box. Unlike the $299 charge listed on Dish's site.
I would be glad to get some HD content as well as the Sirius music channels which I enjoy greatly everyday in my car. BUT and this is my hangup; I lose DIY network and the National Geographic channel. Not to mention the slick Tivo interface. I am really torn. I love my DTV & equipment, but this deal seems great. What do you think? And on Dish's site is says the HGTV and Nat Geo HD (though not in silver pack) are available. Also unfortunately the Indianapolis locals are not there yet.
Lastly, are your local channels the actual channel it is? i.e ch 13 NBC is 13 on the box or do you have to type in the 4 digit dish number like 7236? Sorry so long.


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## plaidpenguinhat (Jun 15, 2006)

Some clarification for those of you wondering about availability of hd programming and mpeg 4, with DTV at least.

The new HD-DVR is slated to come out summer of '06, probably in either late july or august. It'll have the mpeg-4 capability, but won't be based on the TiVo software. Menus and use will be comparable to the R15 dvr.

As far as HD programming, DTV may have a smaller number of HD channels right now, but when you consider that DTV recently launched 2 new satellites to take over transmission of it's HD programming, and the conversion taking place to MPEG 4, by late 2007 DTV should easily have the largest selection of HD channels worldwide.


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## kepper (Nov 28, 2003)

plaidpenguinhat said:


> As far as HD programming, DTV may have a smaller number of HD channels right now, but when you consider that DTV recently launched 2 new satellites to take over transmission of it's HD programming, and the conversion taking place to MPEG 4, by late 2007 DTV should easily have the largest selection of HD channels worldwide.


With all due respect, when I bought my HD Tivo last year I was told by two different DTV CSR's that there would be over 50 channels of non-network HDTV programming available by June 30, 2006, and over 150 channels of non-network HDTV programming by the end of 2006. At the time I thought it was ludricrous, because I couldn't imagine that there would be that many HD channels available to broadcast by the end of 2006, but I was assured by the DTV employees that there would be.

I'm disappointed in the meager offerings of HD programming that D* has, so I cancelled the HD portion of my package some time ago. If and when D* gets more offerings, I will consider reactivating the HD service. But to me, the promises of D* for future HD programming is nothing but an empty sales pitch which hurts credibility.

Based on the assertive tone of your statement, I assume you work for D*. If so, there's no need to "preach to the choir"... I would guess that most folks who are here have heard that D* would have the best HD package available in the future many times before. Until D actually delivers, its just speculative hogwash.


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## ayrton911 (Sep 4, 2000)

Question: the national HD cable channels that DirecTV will someday launch in MPEG4. Are those on those two sats you need a 5-lnb dish for, or are they on one of the main three?


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## BrianCT (Nov 1, 2003)

D* still has my business until someone else provides the NFL Season Ticket and the YES network (Yes-HD as well). 29 HD channels is tempting though...


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

ayrton911 said:


> Question: the national HD cable channels that DirecTV will someday launch in MPEG4. Are those on those two sats you need a 5-lnb dish for, or are they on one of the main three?


All if the national HD channels are currently transmitted in MPEG-2 format on the main three birds. AFAWK, there are no plans to move these in the forseeable future. People, there isn't even a HD DVR that will handle MPEG-4 yet, so there's no reason to think that anything will change drastically for at least a couple of years.

D* will use the HD locals as leverage to get people to use their new HD DVR until such a point where supply outstrips demand (at least 2-3 years is my guess) before they would even think of moving the national HD channels anywhere.


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## jamieh1 (Mar 5, 2003)

I spoke to 2 different retention reps and they both told me the same thing. NGCHD is launching very soon. And that the MPEG4 HDDVR is coming out mid summer.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

kepper said:


> With all due respect, when I bought my HD Tivo last year I was told by two different DTV CSR's that there would be over 50 channels of non-network HDTV programming available by June 30, 2006, .


that was not nice of them. I dont even think there are near that many now. I wish I had a bookmark for the thread with all possible national HD stations that exist now.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

jamielee said:


> I spoke to 2 different retention reps and they both told me the same thing. NGCHD is launching very soon. And that the MPEG4 HDDVR is coming out mid summer.


So, based on that, you can be 100% sure that:

1) NG HD won't be launching any time soon, and
2) The MPEG4 DVR won't be launching mid-summer

If nothing else, the CSR's have a 100% success rate at being completely wrong.


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## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

Can anyone tell me the Dish Network dish coordinates and elevation for zip code 30096? Is it possible to do a self install?

Also, how does the existing Dish HD quality compare to DirecTv's HD quality?

Thanks!

db


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## txfeinbergs (Mar 21, 2004)

gb33 said:


> WOW! This is exactly my dilema and what brought me here tonight.
> I have been with DTV for about 4 years and as expected am very familiar with it and have nothing bad to say about it. Except I do not care for XM radio channels. I do not currently have the HD plan, although I did in the past, but found it not to be worth the cost for 3 channels worth watching occasionally airing HD programming. I have two DTivo boxes with 2 tuners in each.
> With all of the "bundle savings" currently offered through AT&T and Dish Network, my wife and I have been contemplating switching. I would get the new HD DVR that controls 2 TV's along with the HD package. The kicker is we were told by a couple of CSR's that there is NO upgrade fee for the HD DVR box. Unlike the $299 charge listed on Dish's site.
> I would be glad to get some HD content as well as the Sirius music channels which I enjoy greatly everyday in my car. BUT and this is my hangup; I lose DIY network and the National Geographic channel. Not to mention the slick Tivo interface. I am really torn. I love my DTV & equipment, but this deal seems great. What do you think? And on Dish's site is says the HGTV and Nat Geo HD (though not in silver pack) are available. Also unfortunately the Indianapolis locals are not there yet.
> Lastly, are your local channels the actual channel it is? i.e ch 13 NBC is 13 on the box or do you have to type in the 4 digit dish number like 7236? Sorry so long.


gb33, if you have AT&T, then you will want to check out the AT&T Homezone receiver Dish just announced.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=68313


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## gb33 (Jul 23, 2005)

txfeinbergs said:


> gb33, if you have AT&T, then you will want to check out the AT&T Homezone receiver Dish just announced.
> 
> http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=68313


Yeah I saw that. but that is neither the box I would get, and as far as I know, not attainable right now. Could anyone answer or have some input on my large post though. My biggest fears are losing the slick Tivo interface, and DIY. But to gain some HD channels it may be worth it. i am deciding tonight and am leaning toward switching to dish.


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## pintnight (Oct 6, 2004)

I have never liked Dish's menu/navagation/channel guide.


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## gb33 (Jul 23, 2005)

pintnight said:


> I have never liked Dish menu/navagation/channel guid.


This exactly my feelings. DTV just feels so much smoother and easier to read. But I have reluctantly decided to do it. In fact wife is on phone right now.


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## MarcusInMD (Jan 7, 2005)

Based on what I have been reading you will probably get used to the interface. Face it in order to get MPEG4 from DirecTV in the next 18 months or so you will have to deal with their kludgy interface as well.

I am about to order Dish myself, I just can't seem to pull the trigger either LOL. I think I am Going for the 622 with their great special they have now...30 HD channels! That's amazing.

Please post on what you think of it once you have had a chance to evaluate it.


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## gb33 (Jul 23, 2005)

There is now a hiccup and there is a $200 fee for the hd dvr box after we were told there would not be. Looks like I may be sticking with SD DTV for a while longer. I will not pay them $200 for a box I am not thrilled over, and lose a system I am familiar with along with the DIY channel.


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## MarcusInMD (Jan 7, 2005)

With the current deal you get 20 bucks off a month for 10 months for the HD. In affect the receiver is then free.


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## ayrton911 (Sep 4, 2000)

Guindalf said:


> All if the national HD channels are currently transmitted in MPEG-2 format on the main three birds. AFAWK, there are no plans to move these in the forseeable future. People, there isn't even a HD DVR that will handle MPEG-4 yet, so there's no reason to think that anything will change drastically for at least a couple of years.
> 
> D* will use the HD locals as leverage to get people to use their new HD DVR until such a point where supply outstrips demand (at least 2-3 years is my guess) before they would even think of moving the national HD channels anywhere.


Actually I phrased my question wrong. *New* national HD channels DirecTV will start putting in MPEG4 (at least once they start adding them in mass).

Will those national MPEG 4 channels be on the two sats you need the 5LNB dish for?


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Why is this in the "HDTV TiVo powered PVR's" forum? It's not running TiVo software...


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## MarcusInMD (Jan 7, 2005)

I was thinking the same thing.


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## frankygamer (Mar 19, 2002)

I did mention the Tivo Series 3 in one of my posts


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## frankygamer (Mar 19, 2002)

MarcusInMD said:


> Based on what I have been reading you will probably get used to the interface. Face it in order to get MPEG4 from DirecTV in the next 18 months or so you will have to deal with their kludgy interface as well.
> 
> I am about to order Dish myself, I just can't seem to pull the trigger either LOL. I think I am Going for the 622 with their great special they have now...30 HD channels! That's amazing.
> 
> Please post on what you think of it once you have had a chance to evaluate it.


Exactly my thinking................ D* is all talk. It's funny retention claimed their firewall blocked dishnetwork.com and couldn't confirm they were getting their butts handed to them. I miss D* and all those "until a date to be determined features".

Echostar X launched this year. I just don't see them letting D* catch up. People talk where D* will be in 18 months. But where will E* be?

Oh, or you can wait for Series 3 and go cable


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## tnedator (Dec 4, 2003)

gb33 said:


> There is now a hiccup and there is a $200 fee for the hd dvr box after we were told there would not be. Looks like I may be sticking with SD DTV for a while longer. I will not pay them $200 for a box I am not thrilled over, and lose a system I am familiar with along with the DIY channel.


Prior to getting my 10-250 about a month ago, I considered getting dish. They offer locals here, while DirecTV doesn't. However, they would not let me get 3 DVR's. I wanted one HD DVR and two regular DVR's and they told me I couldn't. They said I could have ONE of the DVR's wired to two TVs (because apparently they have dual outputs where the DirecTivos have dual tuners, but only have one output). I told them I was not interested, and wanted 3 DVRs and they said I couldn't.

I talked to both a local installer and a DISH CSR. This completely blew me away. In the end, I am glad that I didn't pull the trigger, because I learned that once I got the Dish locals, I would no longer get East/West CBS, Fox and NBC (ABC won't grant a waiver here), and I would rather have the East/West on those than local channels with the big thunderstorm warnings covering a 1/4 of the screen.


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## tnedator (Dec 4, 2003)

ayrton911 said:


> Actually I phrased my question wrong. *New* national HD channels DirecTV will start putting in MPEG4 (at least once they start adding them in mass).
> 
> Will those national MPEG 4 channels be on the two sats you need the 5LNB dish for?


Yes. While there are rumors that DirecTV might add another national mpeg 2 channel, possibly National Geographic, they will not convert all of their national channels to HD until they have there last two (or three since I am not sure about the launch schedule) Ka sattelites launched that they will be using for HD locals and HD nationals. The plan is that these new satelites will give them the ability to do something like 1500 HD locals and 150 HD nationals, or something to that effect.


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

Adam1115 said:


> Why is this in the "HDTV TiVo powered PVR's" forum? It's not running TiVo software...


Competition, I think it is very healthy.....


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

tnedator said:


> I wanted one HD DVR and two regular DVR's and they told me I couldn't. They said I could have ONE of the DVR's wired to two TVs (because apparently they have dual outputs where the DirecTivos have dual tuners, but only have one output). I told them I was not interested, and wanted 3 DVRs and they said I couldn't.


I used to think the same thing, but it is very cool. A cenral box (new way of thinking). Two independent DVR's in one box. My friend has one and I was playing with it. If it wasn't for the NFLST I would be there.....


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## frankygamer (Mar 19, 2002)

tnedator said:


> Prior to getting my 10-250 about a month ago, I considered getting dish. They offer locals here, while DirecTV doesn't. However, they would not let me get 3 DVR's. I wanted one HD DVR and two regular DVR's and they told me I couldn't. They said I could have ONE of the DVR's wired to two TVs (because apparently they have dual outputs where the DirecTivos have dual tuners, but only have one output). I told them I was not interested, and wanted 3 DVRs and they said I couldn't.
> 
> I talked to both a local installer and a DISH CSR. This completely blew me away. In the end, I am glad that I didn't pull the trigger, because I learned that once I got the Dish locals, I would no longer get East/West CBS, Fox and NBC (ABC won't grant a waiver here), and I would rather have the East/West on those than local channels with the big thunderstorm warnings covering a 1/4 of the screen.


Maybe they meant they couldn't get you a deal on DVR 2 & 3? I have 2 Vip622 and had no problem. Even self installed.

The multiple output feature is an interesting feature. Take the RCA jacks off the HR10 and run to a 2nd TV and get a UHF to IR controller and you have "Single" mode of the Dish receiver. "Dual mode" Tivo can't do (each TV gets a tuner). This is my understanding. I just use single mode.

As for you point on losing East/west feed. I believe D* would have done the same thing in the same situation.

We all have unique desires with our satellite service. I just think people should be aware of their options. I know I had my head in the sand but D* pulled it out when they "misled" me on the 6.x update and then dropping Tivo. If your happy with what you have. Great :up:


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

reh523 said:


> Competition, I think it is very healthy.....


OH I see, so this is a "Let's post this in the TiVo forum to convince everyone to dump their TiVo's?"

I agree that competition is good, but this is a TIVO forum. There are dozens of "DVR" forums out there that discuss ALL Of the different dvr's.. people come here because they own TiVo's.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

Adam1115 said:


> OH I see, so this is a "Let's post this in the TiVo forum to convince everyone to dump their TiVo's?"
> 
> I agree that competition is good, but this is a TIVO forum. There are dozens of "DVR" forums out there that discuss ALL Of the different dvr's.. people come here because they own TiVo's.


I often wonder the same thing as you. Especially when you consider that the OP is, and always will be, a TROLL.

This thread should be removed or, at the very least, closed. If you read just about any of the OPs posts, they are all about the same thing. He has broken into threads where people are asking a simple question and hit up the "give up D*, go with Dish or cable" line!

The OP has nothing to add to a TiVo forum. If I were a mod (and I'm not, and this is not meant as criticism), I would remove him completely. He's attacked me personally on previous occasions - completely unprovoked.


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## ayrton911 (Sep 4, 2000)

tnedator said:


> Yes. While there are rumors that DirecTV might add another national mpeg 2 channel, possibly National Geographic, they will not convert all of their national channels to HD until they have there last two (or three since I am not sure about the launch schedule) Ka sattelites launched that they will be using for HD locals and HD nationals. The plan is that these new satelites will give them the ability to do something like 1500 HD locals and 150 HD nationals, or something to that effect.


Is there anywhere to buy the 5 LNB dish? I don't want a *pro* installer?


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

ayrton911 said:


> Is there anywhere to buy the 5 LNB dish? I don't want a *pro* installer?


AT9 dish:
http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/at9_install_videos.asp

As you might know, the HR10 is unable to handle any of the MPEG4 channels but the AT9 will work with the HR10 for MPEG2 channels.


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## frankygamer (Mar 19, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> OH I see, so this is a "Let's post this in the TiVo forum to convince everyone to dump their TiVo's?"
> 
> I agree that competition is good, but this is a TIVO forum. There are dozens of "DVR" forums out there that discuss ALL Of the different dvr's.. people come here because they own TiVo's.


I hope my posts are not taken that way. I don't want people to dump Tivo, i want them to dump D* because D* dumped Tivo. Yeah, I know Tivo probably loses money when people do this but what the point. D* will obsolete all Tivos in 3 years or more likely sooner if you want all the channels.

I'm just frustrated with D* and could due nothing about it but cancel. I would have waited for the Series 3 but the RSN I want is not on cable. I'm in a multi-RSN region and need the Sports Pack. I also have a series 2 for no other reason then to support tivo. I agree this isn't the greatest place to discuss. Sorry.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

ayrton911 said:


> Is there anywhere to buy the 5 LNB dish? I don't want a *pro* installer?


After you've reviewed the installation of one of these behemoths, you might reconsider.


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## ayrton911 (Sep 4, 2000)

Jon J said:


> After you've reviewed the installation of one of these behemoths, you might reconsider.


Great. I think it's a little silly they have to use 5 orbital locations. I guess I'll have to have an installer, if it's that tough. ha-ha.  Not looking forward to that one little bit.


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## Ed Campbell (Jul 13, 2002)

I haven't considered DISH because I get to read comments from DISH owners with their latest hardware in my local avs forum -- and folks are having problems with everything from the MPG4 locals to MPG4 everything else.

Not that I'm confident about D* doing any better when we get their version. But, DISH doesn't sound like they're ready for prime time either.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

<Definite Smeeking going on here... but...>

If they sign a deal with TIVO to provide a high-definition DVR with TIVO software in it and if they offer Maine local chnnels in high-definition as well - I'm switching to DISH Network tomorrow.

If on top of that they offer the Sci-Fi channel in high-definition, then I'm loyal to DISH Network for my entire life and I'll sign a contract to that effect in blood.


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## frankygamer (Mar 19, 2002)

Ed Campbell said:


> I haven't considered DISH because I get to read comments from DISH owners with their latest hardware in my local avs forum -- and folks are having problems with everything from the MPG4 locals to MPG4 everything else.
> 
> Not that I'm confident about D* doing any better when we get their version. But, DISH doesn't sound like they're ready for prime time either.


I haven't had any problems but all I would like to say is remember this place when the HR10 came out and HDMI ports were supposedly failing left and right. I see Dish owners as no different in the Dish forum I read. Sometimes people just look for problems and like to complain. Look at StarzHD, its been on less then a week and people are flipping out. Give me a break.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Guindalf said:


> I often wonder the same thing as you. Especially when you consider that the OP is, and always will be, a TROLL.
> 
> This thread should be removed or, at the very least, closed. If you read just about any of the OPs posts, they are all about the same thing. He has broken into threads where people are asking a simple question and hit up the "give up D*, go with Dish or cable" line!
> 
> The OP has nothing to add to a TiVo forum. If I were a mod (and I'm not, and this is not meant as criticism), I would remove him completely. He's attacked me personally on previous occasions - completely unprovoked.


Guindalf - I apologize if you feel I have attacked you personally. You really need to chill a little. Take a deep breath and realize that this isn't about you.

It is about current and potential HDTivo owners getting info on the latest hd dvr news, whether it's a tivo software update or D* lagging behind the competition. Some Hr10 owners may want to share experiences with other HR10 owners and different technology.

This forum helped me decide to purchase the HR10-250 (actually I purchased two of them for $1000 each 2 years ago) and I was very happy with my purchase.

This forum also helped me decide to dump D* and I've been happy so far with that decision.

It was threads like mine that have helped me make informed decisions about where to invest my HD DVR money.

If someone does not need or care for the information that's ok too. Just skip that thread. But to ask a forum moderator to disallow certain information that in my opinion is relevant in the small world of HD DVRs is a little absurd.

Just because the information is not important to you does not mean it is not important to someone else that's a current or potential HDTivo user.

I posted the information for all current HDTivo owners to read. I feel it is important that D* be held accountable for falling behind cable and DISH in terms of HD programming and dvr technology.

If enough people agree and leave or complain to D* then D* may strive to better meet the needs of it's HD customers, something they are not doing now.

If they strive harder then that will force DISH and cable to do better and ultimately we - the end user - will benefit. (you know - competition...)

I am just doing my part as an end user who is heavily invested in HD.

If I have offended anyone along the way - I am sincerely sorry.


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

Adam1115 said:


> OH I see, so this is a "Let's post this in the TiVo forum to convince everyone to dump their TiVo's?"
> 
> I agree that competition is good, but this is a TIVO forum. There are dozens of "DVR" forums out there that discuss ALL Of the different dvr's.. people come here because they own TiVo's.


This forum becomes less useful if we can't compare TiVo with other DVRs. I would love DirecTV to stay with TiVo it would make it much easier for me to stay with them. Unfortunately my cable company has a crappy HD selection so I have to look for an alternative. I would love to get a series 3 but that won't do me much good herre. It is nice to see how other DVRs compare. I don't understand all the hostility against discussing competitors.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

ayrton911 said:


> Great. I think it's a little silly they have to use 5 orbital locations. I guess I'll have to have an installer, if it's that tough. ha-ha.  Not looking forward to that one little bit.


Silly? I'm not sure I understand that reaction. It's a transitional dish, and has to simultaneously receive both sets of sats throughout the transition. Since there are 5 sat berths in play, I think any other number of focal points and LNBFs _other_ than 5 would be silly. They probably could have berthed the Kas in the same locations as the Kus, but there is no LNBF that could handle both frequencies, and each sat then needs its own focal point, and separate berth.

But you're right, more focal points makes setup exponentially more difficult. Not only do I not want to do it myself, I don't want an installer who has only done a handful of times. Just like with Lasik surgery, I want a guy who's done it hundreds of times. Maybe that's a hyperbolic example, but it sure puts "doing it yourself" into perspective.


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## DTVPro (Jun 24, 2005)

I've had one of the newer Dish DVR's recently and I have to say I do like them for the most part. The dual output feature was nice, allowed me to get around paying a fee for a second little used reciever in the kitchen


coming with 2 remotes, the second one an RF remote was nice as well



But the grass is always greener on the other side, or so the saying goes. 

As soon as you'd switch to DISH, you'd miss some things about DTV, and realize E*'s customer service is about 1000X worse than DTV's (along with other annoying things)


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## frankygamer (Mar 19, 2002)

1000 times infinity is still infinity


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

You argue that a * (inf) = (inf)

I'll take it a step further and argue that that a * (inf) = (inf) * b = (inf) = c + (inf) = (inf) + d = e - (inf) = (inf) - f = g / (inf) = (inf) / h

And, I'd also argue the +(inf) = -(inf)

The only time we really have a problem with the above is with (inf) / 0 where the result is undefined.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

whats infinity plus one then?


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

(inf) + 1 = (inf)


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

frankygamer said:


> 1000 times infinity is still infinity


If you've had an issue with DTV and have defected to DISH, why are the rest of us still having to see your sorry posts in a Tivo forum? We get it. You've fallen out of love with DTV, you had a bad breakup, and now you need to rationalize and validate your new position to yourself and, unfortunately, to anyone else who will listen. Every large vendor has a few disgruntled customers, and we can accept that you are one of them, but no one here actually cares about your d-i-v-o-r-c-e, and having to keep hearing about it contributes nothing to this forum, so why can't we get you to simply take your cheap-shot DTV-bashing somewhere else? The rest of us are growing pretty weary of it.


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## frankygamer (Mar 19, 2002)

Ouch, sorry if the truth hurts so bad. I feel I've been honest in my postings. I've pointed out negatives with both companies along with positives. But to answer your questions. 
1- I'm still here because old habits are hard to break. Been coming here for a long time. 
2- I still have a SA tivo that is Activated 
3- I will be purchasing a Series 3 when available so I like to check in. Note the post where I said the Vip622 has only one OTA tuner which sucks. 
4- How many people have had both the Vip622 and HR10 and am willing to give a fair comparison. It's usually just Dish sucks or D* blows. I don't find that helpful. So if someone asks a question, I'll try to answer it. 
5- Sometimes somebody has to play devils advocate. I've seen both sides now and both D* and Dish have there pluses and minuses and both camps make bigger issues out of certain things. 

And what cheap shot have I taken on D*? They haven't provided 6.x on the HR10 as promised. Dish does have about 30 HD channels compared to D* ~10. D* is dropping Tivo. In a few years there may be not be any D* customers on this forum. Sorry, those are facts. 

Sure I wasn't happy with D* so I checked out Dish. I had both activated for 2+ weeks to verify this was the move I wanted to take. If others are in the same boat, I'll try to help.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

TyroneShoes said:


> If you've had an issue with DTV and have defected to DISH, why are the rest of us still having to see your sorry posts in a Tivo forum? We get it. You've fallen out of love with DTV, you had a bad breakup, and now you need to rationalize and validate your new position to yourself and, unfortunately, to anyone else who will listen. Every large vendor has a few disgruntled customers, and we can accept that you are one of them, but no one here actually cares about your d-i-v-o-r-c-e, and having to keep hearing about it contributes nothing to this forum, so why can't we get you to simply take your cheap-shot DTV-bashing somewhere else? The rest of us are growing pretty weary of it.


Why does it offend you so much when people try to offer objective comparisons of two products? If it wasn't for people like frankygamer we would all either settle for crap or have to spend alot of time and money doing our own research. Forums like these are EXACTLY the place to find comparative information from actual users of both products. This information is valuable to many of us.

By bashing these people you are sending a message that comparisons from actual users is unacceptable. You are only hurting anyone else who is looking for this information but doesn't have the resources to obtain every product on the market.

If you have personally experienced the same products and don't agree with the information, then feel free to post your rebuttal.

If you are not interested in comparisons between the HR10 and the VIP622 or the Moto6412, etc. than don't click on the post.

If you're pissed that D* is killing tivo and offers the least amount of HD programming then I suggest you direct your anger at D*!

Your anger against franky or anyone else who is in the position to offer product comparisons is simply counter-productive.

You should thank franky and anyone else who takes the time to post their experiences with other products that many of us are curious about.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

bigpuma said:


> This forum becomes less useful if we can't compare TiVo with other DVRs. I would love DirecTV to stay with TiVo it would make it much easier for me to stay with them. Unfortunately my cable company has a crappy HD selection so I have to look for an alternative. I would love to get a series 3 but that won't do me much good herre. It is nice to see how other DVRs compare. I don't understand all the hostility against discussing competitors.


Not really. This isn't a Lets compare DVR's site, this is a site DEDICATED to TiVo. The response would be expected if you started posting threads in Dish Network forums about how people should dump dish and get HD-TiVo's...


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Adam1115 said:


> Not really. This isn't a Lets compare DVR's site, this is a site DEDICATED to TiVo. The response would be expected if you started posting threads in Dish Network forums about how people should dump dish and get HD-TiVo's...


The best advertisement for an HD TiVo is an ad for a Dish Network DVR.


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## frankygamer (Mar 19, 2002)

dswallow said:


> The best advertisement for an HD TiVo is an ad for a Dish Network DVR.


From the research I did, that was true pre-Vip622. I would say the Vip622 and the HR10 (with 3 year old SW) are in the same League. Niether are perfect. Both get the job done. Where will the new D* HD DVR fall? Who knows.


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## frankygamer (Mar 19, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> Not really. This isn't a Lets compare DVR's site, this is a site DEDICATED to TiVo. The response would be expected if you started posting threads in Dish Network forums about how people should dump dish and get HD-TiVo's...


This is one thread on a large forum. The only HD DVR by Tivo is the HR10. DirecTV is dumping Tivo so what's wrong with one thread of Tivo user users trying to figure out what they are doing post-HR10? 
Why aren't we waiting until the HR10 is dead? Some of us are just being proactive.

How would you feel if enough people switched from D* that it got their attention and they reconsider their own NDS DVR or you guys get the 6.x update? I know this won't happen but really it's the only way to voice our opinion. We know petitions, emails, letters, phone calls are worthless.


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## wje (Jan 8, 2005)

frankygamer said:


> This is one thread on a large forum. The only HD DVR by Tivo is the HR10. DirecTV is dumping Tivo so what's wrong with one thread of Tivo user users trying to figure out what they are doing post-HR10?
> Why aren't we waiting until the HR10 is dead? Some of us are just being proactive.
> ....


Personally, I'd like to thank you for the info. It's unfortunate that this forum, like just about every forum on any topic I've ever read, has a small group of very vocal posters who seem to think that whatever they have to say is of critical importance, and nothing anyone else says is worth seeing. They also seem to think it's their job to slam anything and everything they don't post.

I'm certainly interested in the VIP622 comparison. Like some others, I'm ready to leave D* and switch, but just haven't quite been able to pull the trigger.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

frankygamer said:


> This is one thread on a large forum. The only HD DVR by Tivo is the HR10. DirecTV is dumping Tivo so what's wrong with one thread of Tivo user users trying to figure out what they are doing post-HR10?
> Why aren't we waiting until the HR10 is dead? Some of us are just being proactive.
> 
> How would you feel if enough people switched from D* that it got their attention and they reconsider their own NDS DVR or you guys get the 6.x update? I know this won't happen but really it's the only way to voice our opinion. We know petitions, emails, letters, phone calls are worthless.


Right this second, but TiVo plans to launch TWO HD-TiVo's this year! The Series 3 and the ComcastTiVo...

At that point people have the option to leave DirecTV and still have a HD-TiVo.

As far as the 6.x upgrade goes, I don't really care at this point. My HR10 is dedicated to about 6 HD channels, and those are all OTA.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> Not really. This isn't a Lets compare DVR's site, this is a site DEDICATED to TiVo. The response would be expected if you started posting threads in Dish Network forums about how people should dump dish and get HD-TiVo's...


This is a "let's compare DVRs" _THREAD_ in a huge _SITE_ about a tivo powered HD DVR. There are not many HD DVRs on the market so obtaining comparitive information for some HR10 owners who are concerned about the future of HD is invaluable.

If you find no need for this information then move on to another thread.


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## frankygamer (Mar 19, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> Right this second, but TiVo plans to launch TWO HD-TiVo's this year! The Series 3 and the ComcastTiVo...
> 
> At that point people have the option to leave DirecTV and still have a HD-TiVo.
> 
> As far as the 6.x upgrade goes, I don't really care at this point. My HR10 is dedicated to about 6 HD channels, and those are all OTA.


Really, I didn't know that  Thanks for reading the whole thread. Not all of us want/can go cable. Yes I know the Series3 will do OTA only. As I previously said, I plan to get one to make up for only one OTA tuner in the Vip622. 
So your happy with what you have. Great for you! :up: Why does this thread bother you so much? Like I said a few of us are just being a little more proactive then others. What's wrong with that?


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## gb33 (Jul 23, 2005)

I personally have not "fallen out of love" with DirecTV. In fact I just can't seem to leave and although I was let down by the Dish HD deal not going through, maybe it was a sign. 
However I am upset that they cut thier ties with Tivo as I love the interface and functions. And do not like the Dish DVR's or ones from cable companies. But just like anything else, it gets easier with time. Man I was so close to the switch to dish.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

fastep said:


> This is a "let's compare DVRs" _THREAD_ in a huge _SITE_ about a tivo powered HD DVR. There are not many HD DVRs on the market so obtaining comparitive information for some HR10 owners who are concerned about the future of HD is invaluable.
> 
> If you find no need for this information then move on to another thread.


BULL CRAP. You have a bone to pick with both DirecTV and the HR10-250, you aren't trying to compare jack. So go to dish and leave us alone!

Sampling of recent threads you've started.. Objective my butt....

Dish VIP622 Discussions
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=289902

Why is DTV the ONLY HD provider with mandatory contracts?
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=289118

Hr10-250 And Dtv Are Inferior
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=288483

Dtv **sses Me Off
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=288165

Why no firewire or sata ports with HDtivo?
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=284218

Comcast deal for DTV customers
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=281624


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> BULL CRAP. You have a bone to pick with both DirecTV and the HR10-250, you aren't trying to compare jack. So go to dish and leave us alone!
> 
> Sampling of recent threads you've started.. Objective my butt....
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for taking the time to review my previous threads. Did you actually read them? Is there any mis-information that you would like to dispute and \ or discuss?

Listen - I post my opinions and observations as I see them. As an Hdtivo owner for over 2 years and a D* subscriber for over nine years I feel obligated to share my experiences for discussion purposes (and yes to sometimes vent) as well as to offer comparative information to potential subsribers that don't know about their HD and DVR options.

I tryed my best to compare my experiences with all DVRs I have used past and present and I appreciate the positive feedback I have received from several members over the past several months.

The only service and HD DVR I have not used is DISH and the VIP622. I'm sure many HDTivo owners are intrigued that DISH has 3X as many HD channels as D* and are curious how the V622 compares to thr HR10.

You obviously don't and that is fine.

Why keep up your attack against people who are trying to share real-world experiences with other vendors and technology?

I guarantee that if the moto6412 and\ or comcast were worse than D* I would have stuck with D* and posted that information. As a matter of fact I still have all my D* equipment because who knows what the future will hold.

I suppose that if I had determined D* and the HR10 were better and I were to have posted that information then I would have received your praise.

Not all information is something you want to hear. But it's just that - information.

As I stated before - you should thank those that took the time and expense to try other technologies and then took the time to share their observations and answer questions about their experiences.

I guartantee that if D* stays on its present course, many HR10 owners (maybe even you) will eventually be contemplating leaving. When that happens, you will then understand why this type of information is invaluable.

Until then, stop clicking on the "anti-D*" threads as you refer to them and enjoy D* and your HR10-250.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

Adam et al.

I tried to warn you all in post # 43. I won't even take the time to respond any more. Fastep is a troll of the worst kind. If you actually DID take the trouble to read his posts, you'll find plenty of misinformation and downright stretching the truth.

So, save your breath.

Oh, and to those looking for a viable comparison between the two satellite companies, I'm sorry to say, you WON'T find it here. Not from either side, and certainly not from Fastep!


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

fastep said:


> Listen - I post my opinions and observations as I see them. As an Hdtivo owner for over 2 years and a D* subscriber for over nine years I feel obligated to share my experiences for discussion purposes (and yes to sometimes vent) as well as to offer comparative information to potential subsribers that don't know about their HD and DVR options. .
> 
> The only service and HD DVR I have not used is DISH and the VIP622. I'm sure many HDTivo owners are intrigued that DISH has 3X as many HD channels as D* and are curious how the V622 compares to thr HR10.
> 
> ...


Ok. I was a little edgy in my responses, so I apologize. As you know this subject is touchy with die hard TiVo fans.

So lets steer this thread away from what I perceived it to be (attacking D* and the HR10-250) to a true comparison thread.

First, one point that we disagree on is that you don't LIKE the HR10. Much of your posts inidicate this, regardless of what contents there is for it. I LIKE the HR10, but yes, it is extrodianrily frustrating that Dish offers MUCH more HD than DirecTV. Including the fact that their HD-LIL rollout has been appalaing, their replacment to the HR10 does not exist, etc. I totally get that. The HR10 is a fantastic DVR to TiVo fanatacs (no not perfect, but the best there is.), and presently I receive a grand total of 6 HD channels. (I refuse to pay for the pathetic HD Pack..)

In fact, I'm using my HR10 SOLELY for HD. I still use my SD for 99% of my viewing. (Making the HR20 an actual consideration, because really, I'm only watching about 4 shows a week on the HR10... and I could keep my SD dual tuner TiVo's which are still AWESOME.)

So should users ditch their HR10 for a dish or comcast? While maybe.. For one, BOTH have my locals in HD... I really can't imagine losing my SD TiVo's though... Technically, both Comcast and Dish's DVR are sub par. The Dish VIP is probably the best that Dish has EVER done. It's "Season Pass" and "wishlist" functionality is nowhere near TiVo's. The TiVo flat out works, and doesn't skip a beat.

It's a toss up right now, because you have to compare the HR20 to Dish and Comcast.. wow.. can't believe it's gone this way.. It's like picking between George Bush and John Kerry for president...


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## frankygamer (Mar 19, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> ... Technically, both Comcast and Dish's DVR are sub par. The Dish VIP is probably the best that Dish has EVER done. It's "Season Pass" and "wishlist" functionality is nowhere near TiVo's. The TiVo flat out works, and doesn't skip a beat.
> .....


So how long have you used the Vip622? What kind of "Timer" and "Dish Pass" bugs should I be aware of? Thanks

I wanted to keep my HR10's for OTA but D* wouldn't offer a package cheap enough to make this option reasonable.


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## MarcusInMD (Jan 7, 2005)

I am at a bit of a loss right now. I am so close to dropping DirecTV so that I can get better SD video, more HD quality and a better selection of HD content. But I just found out that the 622 does not do folders either. This is kind of a bummer. I want to get the better quality that Dish offers but the lack of folders sorta puts me right back where I am now with DirecTV. Especially if their new DVR (if we ever see it) has folders.

I was watching Nick and Night last night and my God the video quality was some of the worse I have ever seen from broadcast. Downright awful. Almost unwatcheable.

For me this is so disheartening. I left C-band almost 2 years ago because I thought that while the quaility wouldn't be there I would have a better selection of hardware with lots of nice features. Boy was I wrong. And the quality is beyond terrible. Going back to c-band is a possible option, but the hardware end just is not there unless you purchase multiple receivers and then it becomes a logistical nightmare.

Adelphia cable here does not even offer local Fox. And they are due to be converted over to comcast any day. Lord knows what my choices would be then.


Why can't one, JUST ONE, provider give us decent hardware, with reasonable picture quality with the programming that we all like. I really don't think thats too much to ask of any one content provider. But apparently these companies with tons of cash just can't seem to get ANYTHING right.


EDIT: I have only two complaints about the HD-Tivo. The interface speed and the lack of folders. If they had that I would be happy (except for the fact that DirecTVs SD and HD is pretty bad)


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

MarcusInMD said:


> Why can't one, JUST ONE, provider give us decent hardware, with reasonable picture quality with the programming that we all like. I really don't think thats too much to ask of any one content provider. But apparently these companies with tons of cash just can't seem to get ANYTHING right.


It looks like FIOS TV plus a Series 3 HD Tivo might be the savior of us videophiles. However, it's dependent on a couple of things:

1) Getting FIOS TV (I have FIOS Internet, so it should only be a matter of time)
2) The Series 3 working with FIOS TV (the new issues around CC2 and switching video bands are disconcerting).


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## MarcusInMD (Jan 7, 2005)

I'm afraid that won't be an option where I currently live for some time to come.

I did a service call for a customer that had FIOS. He said he loves it. Best PQ that he has seen to date (guess he didnt see C-Band/  ) and he gets it all over FIOS. TV, Internet, Phone for around 100 bucks a month. <sigh>


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## jimborst (Aug 30, 2001)

Well I just took the plunge, I have had Dish for a long time and I have had a standalone TiVo taking care of my recording but....

I just ordered the 622 HD receiver with the dual tuner and DVR, I plan on keeping my TiVo (Lifetime) but with the HD I thought I'd give Dish's DVR a try. Now if I can only get a CBS waiver so I can get an HD CBS station!


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## maback (Aug 13, 2005)

Sorry, but I'm another one, who has decided that Dish's offer is too good to ignore. For $49 ($29 for the first 10 months), I get all the channels I have with Directv + 27 HD channels included in the package. I'm sick of Directv's nickel and diming us on the HD channels. 

I'll miss my HD tivo....... but will like DN lower prices and more channels.


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

maback said:


> Sorry, but I'm another one, who has decided that Dish's offer is too good to ignore. For $49 ($29 for the first 10 months), I get all the channels I have with Directv + 27 HD channels included in the package. I'm sick of Directv's nickel and diming us on the HD channels.
> 
> I'll miss my HD tivo....... but will like DN lower prices and more channels.


I took the E* deal to try it out even though I'm committed to staying with D*. So far it's ok but I'm worried that the low signal strength on the 129 satellite will cause me to lose the signal when rain clouds show up here in the Fall.

The offer requires $199.99 up front for HD DVR 622 but that is refunded by a $20/mo credit for 10 mos. I opted out of the 18 mo contract. With locals and DVR fee it comes to $61/mo. And after 7/6 it will cost $20/ more a month if National Geographic HD is wanted.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Guindalf said:


> Adam et al.
> 
> I tried to warn you all in post # 43. I won't even take the time to respond any more. Fastep is a troll of the worst kind. If you actually DID take the trouble to read his posts, you'll find plenty of misinformation and downright stretching the truth.
> 
> ...


Please share the 'misinformation' you are referring to. If I posted any incorrect information I apologize. If you disagree with any of my experiences with different vendors and dvrs, I would be happy to discuss your rebuttal.

If you have no experience with other vendors \ dvrs, and you are interested in alternatives then I suggest you get over any personal problem you have with me and learn about your choices. I would be more than happy to answer any questions you have about Comcast, the moto6412 III, or the sony DHG 500. Others on this thread appear to be more than happy to share their experiences with the VIP622.

If you are simply not interested in alternatives then I suggest you quit wasting your time clicking on these types of threads. It only seems to upset you.

If you're mad that D*'s competition has surpassed them with more content and suitable alternatives to the HR10 then that is a personal issue only you can work out for yourself.

Face it - D* has let its' HD customers down and many have left or will leave. I doubt if the HR20 will recapture any lost business but you never know.

I personally believe that fios will be where most of us end up if and when it becomes available.

Until then we are all just trying to maximize our HD dvr experience.

We are all in this together.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

Fastep,

I'm NOT going to sink to your level and I'm certainly not going to go through all that [email protected] again. I'll let others decide what they think, but you and I both know the truth.

You're a troll of the worst kind and will not change. You believe you're doing everyone a favor but all you're really doing is furthering your own troll cause.

The reason I will not ignore this thread is the same reason that people were admonished for not stand up to Hitler before WW2. Someone has to warn people of the poisoned Kool Aid you're attempting to offer them.

End of conversation.


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## MarcusInMD (Jan 7, 2005)

With all due respect Guindalf,
Comparing this guy to Hitler is a slap in the face of all of those that suffered under his reign. And yes, you did do that directly or indirectly you did do it.

I think most of us here are capable of drawing our own conclusions when people post stuff that is not directly related to HD-Tivo. The information that he has posted in this thread is hardly worthy of being called trolling.

The alligence to DirecTV is startling here. Do you guys own stock or do you work for the company?


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

MarcusInMD said:


> With all due respect Guindalf,
> Comparing this guy to Hitler is a slap in the face of all of those that suffered under his reign. And yes, you did do that directly or indirectly you did do it.
> 
> I think most of us here are capable of drawing our own conclusions when people post stuff that is not directly related to HD-Tivo. The information that he has posted in this thread is hardly worthy of being called trolling.
> ...


This has nothing to do with an allegience to D*. This has to do with propaganda and lies. If you take offense to the analagy, then I'm sorry, but that's all it is and nothing to do with "slapping anyone in the face"!

This idiot is attempting to get others to make choices for him. He's now trying to justify his actions in a rational manner. Take a look at his other posts, where facts are blatantly wrong and he's telling others to convert to Dish and report back to him and let him know if he should do the same (not using these exact words, of course).

I have neither the time, not the inclination to go searching for the evidence, but it is there. He tried this with ME PERSONALLY, including telling me that the D* system was going to cost a lot more than it did and I could get freebies and programming credits that simply do not exist. Look through the archives of his posts and find me something that DOESN'T back me up.

Going back to the loyalty thing. I DON'T have any kind of allegience to D*. The ONLY reason I have them is because my cableco is useless and I got a better deal from them when I moved to my new house. I would drop them in an instant if a) I could do it at little or no cost, b) they had product that was worth considering, c) I wasn't under contract and d) they had any future plans worth considering.

It's true that at any given time, you can make comparisons between two services and one will have features that are better than the other. Give it a week or a month - or even a takeover - and that will change. D* may be down on HD offerings at this time, but that is because of the Voom takeover. That situation will change and D* will be on top for a while. Then FIOS will take over, then Dish will come up with something...you get the idea.

In the meantime, all I'm saying is this. Get your information from those that know, those that have tried the other systems, those that have switched and those that are knowledgeable, NOT from a troll (Yes, he IS a troll. The information in THIS thread my not, in your opinion, be troll-worthy, but trust me, when you look at his other threads, you'll agree).

Like I said, give this idiot a wide berth. Get your information from a better source and let him drink his own Kool Aid alone.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Guindalf said:


> Fastep,
> 
> I'm NOT going to sink to your level and I'm certainly not going to go through all that [email protected] again. I'll let others decide what they think, but you and I both know the truth.
> 
> ...


Dude - what is wrong with you?

I used Hr10 250 for two years and switched to Comcast and now use the moto and sony. I offered my opinions on the differences I noticed in performance and PQ. I also posted the package deal I received from comcast. All my information is accurate and my opinions are just that - my opinions.

I recently shared the info about DISH on this thread which appears to have been useful to at least a few HR10 users.

I am not attempting to start a master race in order to take over the world.

You are troubled, rude and short-sighted and should post a retraction to your previous post as well as an apology to myself and to any other reader who was appalled by your comment.

Your post was hurtful and uncalled for.


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

I was enjoying this thread, now that I am a free agent and a DTV customer of 6 years I want to make an informed choice before I chose to put another dish on my house or turn Comcast loose with wire. Being fairly new to HD I want HD and the ability to record it. This name calling and thread crapping is only going to result in a locked thread. And that is not good.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

That's the funniest thing I've read in a LONG time!

I've spent WAY too much time with someone who's not worth a second of it. I told you before I wouldn't give you a soap box and I'm taking that away. You can say what you like, but I just went through SIX pages of your previous posts and 90% of them ar just anti-D*. You are on a mission, my friend. Whether you admit it or not.

The only apology I owe is to the others who have to read your drivel. If this thread gets locked, good! If you get yourself banned (the best thing that could happen, IMHO), good! If I get banned, that's fine too if it means stopping your poison.

If anyone wants to see some of the tamer things that have come out of this jerk, read on. I couldn't find the personal attack on me, but if anyone has the time and inclination, feel free to search further.

I rest my case. And I WILL NOT respond any more - unless it's to rebut more lies or to warn others of this uber-troll (yes, I've promoted him).



fastep said:


> Are E* mpeg4 HD locals available to you? If so, switching to E* makes perfect sense. Also, the dish vip622 hd dvr at $299 may be cheaper than the d* mpeg4 hd dvr (whenever it comes out). (BTW, I switched to cable recently and could not be happier.)
> 
> *So why wait? Suspend your contract if it is still in effect. Life's too short. If you want it and it's available and affordable, get it!*
> 
> *If you do switch, please report back and give us the REAL scoop on the 622!*





fastep said:


> Just called DTV (again) and this is the scoop:
> 
> Starting 3-1-06: HD DVR lease only through DTV - *upfront cost $749 less $100 rebate and $99 installation*...





fastep said:


> No I won't go away as *I hope to educate others* BEFORE they get stuck. Or maybe someone can explain DTV's reasoning other than to CONTAIN current customers and LIMIT choices! If someone can do that satisfactorily I WILL stop posting and maybe I'll even re-sign with DTV. I believe we all DESERVE an answer!
> 
> *With DTV - you get what you get, too bad, so sad..........Not for me anymore.*





fastep said:


> People like me are EXACTLY who should post on this forum. *Who better to tell potential buyers unfamiliar with HD Dvrs?* I want them to know they may have alternative choices BEFORE they get locked into a two year contract! *If I help just one person avoid getting stuck with less then my post was successful.*
> 
> I understand why you are upset - You (and many of us) FEEL BETRAYED. I went out and shopped around not because I have time and money to waste but because DTV FORCED me to.
> 
> *Hr10-250 And Dtv Are Inferior*





fastep said:


> A MONTHLY FEE!!!!! WHAT A JOKE!!! *CABLE (Now ALL-DIGITAL) :NO UPFRONT COST *and $9.95 per month covers DVR SERVICE, HD PROGRAMMING, and PROTECTION AGAINST ANY PROBLEM. CANCEL ANYTIME PERIOD.
> 
> FOR ANYONE THAT WANTS THE MOST BANG FOR THEIR BUCK WITHOUT CONTRACTS AND COMPRESSED SIGNALS AND EXPENSIVE EQUIPMENT AND SO ON, AND SO ON, and SO ON....
> 
> *I TOO WAS ONCE LIKE YOU, A DIE-HARD DTVer, BUT SOMETIMES CHANGE IS GOOD....AND TIMES ARE-A-CHANGIN !*





fastep said:


> *Don't be foolish and get "stuck" with DTV* if something better becomes available in your neighborhood like in my case. I cant wait for verizon FIOS TV when it comes out and compare PQ and prices again. This way I really get what I pay for !!!!!
> NO CONTRACTS - NOTHING TO LOSE - EVERYTHING TO GAIN !!!!!!
> 
> NEVER LOOK BACK..................


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Guindalf said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> That's the funniest thing I've read in a LONG time!
> 
> ...


First of all, I never said ALL my threads were for comparative purposes. I admitted that some of my threads were for venting. What's wrong with that?

The above examples are all my opinions and I stand behind them. Which statement is incorrect? Many of the above examples were in response to people like you wondering why I switched when I did. I was only being proactive. AGAIN - What is wrong with that?

Incidently, where is my thread comparing the HDTivo to the moto and sony dvrs? I thought that was fairly informative but you left that one out.

Oh, and where is my thread regarding the deal that saved me and several other HR10 owners over $1500 during the next 12 months? You seemed to have omitted that one too.

What about this thread which may have informed HR10 owners about the current DISH deal? More HD content and money saved. Boy what a creep I am for posting that info... oh I'm sorry... not a creep but a "troll"..... You got me.

But now the real question - Why are you so pro-D* anyway? Don't you like competition and consumer choices? Don't you want better programming content and quality and save a few bucks while you're at it? Aren't you the least bit curious about your choices?

Listen, you proved your point that some of my posts were regarding D*'s policies and future HD plans and how I felt D* let me down. You got me. Good job!

Now please give it a rest.....please....


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## frankygamer (Mar 19, 2002)

Why does the guy who said don't feed the troll, keep posting? I think rest of us get your point. And nobody should make a decision based on one poster on a message board anyway.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> Technically, both Comcast and Dish's DVR are sub par.


I disagree. I find the moto and sony cable dvrs much faster and just as reliable as the hdtivo. I have not tryed the VIP622. It seems however that preliminary reports show that the V622 is also faster and reliable as well.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

jimborst said:


> Well I just took the plunge, I have had Dish for a long time and I have had a standalone TiVo taking care of my recording but....
> 
> I just ordered the 622 HD receiver with the dual tuner and DVR, I plan on keeping my TiVo (Lifetime) but with the HD I thought I'd give Dish's DVR a try. Now if I can only get a CBS waiver so I can get an HD CBS station!


Please post your experiences with the 622 as compared to D* and Tivo. Thank you.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

maback said:


> Sorry, but I'm another one, who has decided that Dish's offer is too good to ignore. For $49 ($29 for the first 10 months), I get all the channels I have with Directv + 27 HD channels included in the package. I'm sick of Directv's nickel and diming us on the HD channels.
> 
> I'll miss my HD tivo....... but will like DN lower prices and more channels.


If you have the time many of us would appreciate hearing your comparisons of both vendors and dvrs (pros and cons). Thank you in advance.


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## kpurcell (Jul 13, 2005)

BillyT2002 said:


> <Definite Smeeking going on here... but...>
> 
> If they sign a deal with TIVO to provide a high-definition DVR with TIVO software in it and if they offer Maine local chnnels in high-definition as well - I'm switching to DISH Network tomorrow.
> 
> If on top of that they offer the Sci-Fi channel in high-definition, then I'm loyal to DISH Network for my entire life and I'll sign a contract to that effect in blood.


All of that would be great. But until I get NFL Ticket on Dish then I can't switch. It's all about the Packers baby.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

kpurcell said:


> All of that would be great. But until I get NFL Ticket on Dish then I can't switch. It's all about the Packers baby.


Right now I am enjoying local baseball in HD with comcast but I admit I will miss the NFL ticket a little (but not the cost!!).

What is this HD NFL channel that Dish just launched? Does it have HD games or is it just commentary?


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

fastep said:


> Right now I am enjoying local baseball in HD with comcast but I admit I will miss the NFL ticket a little (but not the cost!!).
> 
> What is this HD NFL channel that Dish just launched? Does it have HD games or is it just commentary?


The NFL will be broadcasting some games this year, in HD of course. Also they are working on additional programming.

Game Schedule:

Thursday, Nov. 23 / 8:00 p.m. ET
Broncos vs. Chiefs

Thursday, Nov. 30 / 8:00 p.m. ET
Ravens vs. Bengals

Thursday, Dec. 7 / 8:00 p.m. ET
Browns vs. Steelers

Thursday, Dec. 14 / 8:00 p.m. ET
49ers vs. Seahawks

Saturday, Dec. 16 / 8:00 p.m. ET
Cowboys vs. Falcons

Thursday, Dec. 21 / 8:00 p.m. ET
Vikings vs. Packers

Saturday, Dec. 23 / 8:00 p.m. ET
Chiefs vs. Raiders

Saturday, Dec. 30 / 8:00 p.m. ET
Giants vs. Redskins


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

super dave said:


> The NFL will be broadcasting some games this year, in HD of course. Also they are working on additional programming.
> 
> Game Schedule:
> 
> ...


Are these HD games available to Dish only or will D* and comcast have them in hd as well ? (ie. are they being broadcast local affiliate or ESPN HD ?)


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

fastep said:


> Are these HD games available to Dish only or will D* and comcast have them in hd as well ? (i.e. are they being broadcast local affiliate or ESPN HD ?)


As far as I know, D* hasn't announced any plans to carry the NFL Network HD, but I'll be pretty surprised if they don't by the time these games roll around. (And if I recall correctly, D* broadcast the NFL Network's Game of the Week in past years in HD, although delayed.)

All 8 games will also air on broadcast stations in the local markets of the teams involved.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

fastep said:


> I disagree. I find the moto and sony cable dvrs much faster and just as reliable as the hdtivo. I have not tryed the VIP622. It seems however that preliminary reports show that the V622 is also faster and reliable as well.


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## frankygamer (Mar 19, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


>


So how many other DVR's have you tried and for how long? I've tried both series 1 and series 2 (DTivo and SA), The HR10, replaytv, and now the Vip622. The replay is probably the one I used the least for about 6 months. Just curious what your basing your findings on.


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## PAP (Oct 6, 1999)

Everyone griping about how we shouldn't talk about non-Tivo DVRs are missing the point - those of us who have DTV and want to stay with TIVO are very quickly running out of luck.

I'm much more loyal to Tivo than I am DTV and I want a HD based DVR that runs TIVO if possible.

I think I'll be looking at changing to cable and getting a series 3 but I for one greatly appreciate the positive AND negative feedback on available options and wish others would let those posting negative comments do so without being subjected to personal attacks.

I've been a cable customer, a Dish customer and a DTV customer. I've been a DTV customer for about 6 years ONLY because I could get a DTV-TIVO unit. That is coming to an end, as is my relationship with DTV.


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## Chuck_IV (Jan 1, 2002)

BrianCT said:


> D* still has my business until someone else provides the NFL Season Ticket and the YES network (Yes-HD as well). 29 HD channels is tempting though...


I'm a little late to the thread but...

Being a Yankee fan, this is what keeps me at Directv. DISH's HD looks VERY tempting, but YES network outweighs any HD, at this point.

I will admit, Directv has PO'd me over the last year or so, with...

1) HD Lite

2) Compressing the heck outta their SD channels.

3) Ditching Tivo(this could be what sends me elsewhere eventually)

4) Dragging their feet on the HD DVR, thus having absolutely no option to record HD if you go MPeg-4... Inexcuseable IMO

5) Dragging their feet on adding any new NATIONAL HD channels. Ok we got TNTHD recently, but that's it.

6) Shutting off West coast HD locals(I still have East coast ones), without being required to(I have waivers and am on the east coast so it was purely a Directv decision, not a requirement by the law),

Quite a few more, but I will stop here.

Since Newscorp has taken over Directv, they have sunk to the levels of my cable TV company. So much so, if it weren't for my 1 yr left on my HD Directivo commitment, I'd be seriously considering cable again.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

You're preaching to the choir, man. I hear you loud and clear and I'm there too. I'm gone as soon as the TIVO series 3 arrives. I hope that DirecTV loses a lot of their customer base over the way that Newscorp has been running the company. Old Rupey needs a life lesson or he just needs to keel over already and hand the reins to new blood.

(On a side note - what a pleasant day it is today. )


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

BillyT2002 said:


> (On a side note - what a pleasant day it is today. )


Tell me about it - my flight from boston to baltimore was scheduled to arrive at 8:00pm last night and I finally got home at 3:00 am and NO POWER!! (back on tonight thank goodness). It felt like "Planes, Trains and Automobiles" but it wasn't funny at all. Where is Steve Martin when you need him?


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