# Current Season of Sons of Guns



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Sorry I don't know what season they are on or I would have added that to the title.


I still enjoy this show but I'm feeling like Will has let the producers/show interfere with his business and is just putting on a "show" now.

I'm just not buying this drama of Vince leaving and then Vince coming back...

I do love the explosions though!


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

I agree on both points (show, and drama). The "behind the scenes" episode made it even more clear that the line between what's real and what's scripted is a lot fuzzier than they'd want you to believe. There's a TON more that goes on which we never get to see (or is even hinted at).

I'm amazed at how much my wife (who doesn't like firearms) has become interested in the show.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I couldn't figure out if that behind the scenes was filmed before or after the Vince mess.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

I love the weapons, hate the drama. I think that is why I like American Guns better. They don't have all this in-fighting.

I still watch every week, but roll my eyes when Will starts yelling at the cameraman, or they censor the word 'Elvis'.


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## dsmoot (Oct 15, 2003)

pmyers said:


> I couldn't figure out if that behind the scenes was filmed before or after the Vince mess.


I was guessing before, since if neither Kris nor Stephanie were wearing a wedding ring, and they got married at the same time as the whole Vince debacle.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

I really liked tonight's episode. The beehive round was very cool.



Spoiler



And I thought they were going to get the explosion from it



Also loved seeing Kari and Tory from the Mythbusters there. Looking forward to seeing Sons of Guns on their show.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Donbadabon said:


> I really liked tonight's episode. The beehive round was very cool.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't normally like "cross over" shows, but I enjoyed this. It didn't seem forced.

To me, it looked like the 2nd round (the rifle round) would have worked but the tracer rounds didn't look like they hit the tank.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Just saw the new season of Sons Of Guns starts March 21st. I thought it had been cancelled (aka not renewed), but it is back.

Discovery Channel, March 21st, 9PM ET.

http://tvruckus.com/2014/02/11/breaking-news-exclusive-sons-of-guns-returns-to-discovery-on-friday-march-21-video-sneak-peek/


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

cool. thx for the info


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

I also thought it was cancelled. The owner is a real jerk, but I am curious to see where they are at now.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

New season starts tonight.

According to the guide data, they are building a weaponized drone. That should be interesting.

I hope they concentrate more on the firearms than the drama, but since it is TV I doubt it.


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

I confused this show with the OTHER gun show from the people in Colorado.

Seems like these people are just as clueless as before. What I want to know is how does this small town support so many gun shops? With them, Vince's shop, and now Flem's shop, it seems like a lot for a small area. I realize they can sell nationwide, but how many people really are reaching out to them.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Well, I thought New Orleans is a rather big city, and I'm sure that can support 5 small gun shops. I'm pretty certain most other cities in the US have quite a few more. Heck, I'm sure in our city there's probably tons of gun shops and such (and I'm in Canada).

And I suspected Sons of Guns was going to be renewed - Discovery Canada has been showing snippets for ads and Sons of Guns has always been one of them showing what's on Discovery. I doubt they'd put on a show they knew was gone since there are many other shows they left out.


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

They're in Baton Rouge. http://www.redjacketfirearms.com/ The metro area population is around 800,000.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

It seems like I missed an episode, or a discussion on the show about this, but what happened to Kris and Stephanie's business? Didn't they announce at the end of last season that they were leaving to start their own business?


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## trnsfrguy (Apr 28, 2005)

Donbadabon said:


> It seems like I missed an episode, or a discussion on the show about this, but what happened to Kris and Stephanie's business? Didn't they announce at the end of last season that they were leaving to start their own business?


The new season hasn't addressed it at all so far. They did mention Flem having his own shop.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Donbadabon said:


> It seems like I missed an episode, or a discussion on the show about this, but what happened to Kris and Stephanie's business? Didn't they announce at the end of last season that they were leaving to start their own business?


I don't remember them saying they were going to leave, just that it would take some of their time away from the shop.


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

Worf said:


> Well, I thought New Orleans is a rather big city, and I'm sure that can support 5 small gun shops. I'm pretty certain most other cities in the US have quite a few more. Heck, I'm sure in our city there's probably tons of gun shops and such (and I'm in Canada).


These are not really gun stores though. They are gun producers, i.e. they build guns. Sure they do a handful of one-offs, but it seems that they are/want to be a manufacturer.


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

I think their company was IAC (for it's a cannon). I can't seem to find it anywhere now. At the end of the last season when they were talking about it, they just seemed to sell shirts and a few accessories.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Frylock said:


> I think their company was IAC (for it's a cannon). I can't seem to find it anywhere now. At the end of the last season when they were talking about it, they just seemed to sell shirts and a few accessories.


Yeah..that's how I remember it. I think they wanted time off to go to gun/trade shows and hawk their apparel.


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## mchasal (Jun 6, 2001)

http://www.iacgear.com/ Warning, it autoplays some music by Kris Ford.

Seems that it's mostly training, swag, and the aforementioned music. Probably more of a sideline.


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

Seems it may be smart to get out from under Red Jacket...

According to this Will's been arrested on child molestation charges. He's already come out with 2 different stories. Not looking too good for him.


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

The local sheriff spends most of his time at Red Jacket. It must have been an interesting arrest for him.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Looks like they arrested him again, this time for rape (the other was for molestation).

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2014/08/27/sons-guns-star-arrested-for-allegedly-repeatedly-raping-minor/

Following the initial allegations, his daughter Stephanie Hayden Ford, who appears on the show with her dad, took to her Facebook page to deny reports that the hit series was in trouble.

"Guys the show is NOT cancelled! We so appreciate the outcry of injustice but [it's] not true, I guess some [people] just need ratings&#8230; We are on a hold with filming while my family takes care of a few things. You guys are the best fans ever & we love you so much! Thank u for standing strong with us!"


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

....and according to the report, the person he's accused of raping is his 12 year old daughter. The report I read said it's been going on almost daily since she was 11 years old. 

Wow!


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## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

I hope this is nothing more than the accusations of a very confused or manipulated young girl. The alternative is too awful.


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

Donbadabon said:


> Looks like they arrested him again, this time for rape (the other was for molestation).
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2014/08/27/sons-guns-star-arrested-for-allegedly-repeatedly-raping-minor/
> 
> ...


TMZ is quoting Discovery as saying the series has absolutely been cancelled.

http://www.tmz.com/2014/08/27/sons-of-guns-canceled-discovery-will-hayden-rape-charges/

Will is still in jail, so filming might be tricky anyway.  These cases can take years before the accused goes on trial, so Discovery doesn't have many options other than cancelling.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

ClutchBrake said:


> I hope this is nothing more than the accusations of a very confused or manipulated young girl. The alternative is too awful.


I sure hope you're right! It's possible the mother planted the idea in her head for revenge. It happens.

But sadly, the other scenario happens as well.  Hopefully they will get to the truth one way or the other.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

ClutchBrake said:


> I hope this is nothing more than the accusations of a very confused or manipulated young girl. The alternative is too awful.


This.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Looks like he lost his company too.

http://www.redjacketfirearms.com/

"Red Jacket Firearms LLC. has initiated and received full legal separation as an entity, from William M. Hayden. "


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

ClutchBrake said:


> I hope this is nothing more than the accusations of a very confused or manipulated young girl. The alternative is too awful.


Agreed. when he got arrested before, I read an article that basically said his poistion was it was a bitter ex who had manipulated the girl to say this but there must be some merit because they moved forward and re-arrested him and changed the charges.

Either way it is a horrible mess.


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

pmyers said:


> Agreed. when he got arrested before, I read an article that basically said his poistion was it was a bitter ex who had manipulated the girl to say this but there must be some merit because they moved forward and re-arrested him and changed the charges.
> 
> Either way it is a horrible mess.


His story keeps changing. When he was arrested the first time, his lawyer said it was a bitter ex-employee making false charges. Now this time it's supposedly a bitter ex-wife making false charges.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...rested-for-allegedly-repeatedly-raping-minor/

"Earlier this month, on Aug. 9, Hayden was arrested for molestation of a juvenile and aggravated crimes against nature. He posted his $150,000 bond and was released. At the time, his lawyer told FOX411 the charges were stemmed from a conflict with a fired ex-employee who was seeking revenge."

I keep remembering all the times on the show when the local sheriff and other local law enforcement agencies were featured. The sheriff was on frequently. Given all the cop-type buddies Will has (had), I have to think they were pretty convinced of the charges before pursuing the case.


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## minorthr (Nov 24, 2001)

I was actually at Red Jacket Firearms yesterday. I was in Baton Rouge visiting our casino for work and when I was done decided to swing by First let me say it was not what I expected. Very small and wasn't really put together like a professional business the racks and displays were pretty much all empty and looked like stuff that was picked up here and there and just put in the store. Virtually no shirts or mercy and maybe 10 guns for sale.

I walked around for about 10 minutes before someone came out of the back and just stood on the other side of the place and watched me walk around. While I was there a kid came in the front door sobbing uncontrollably a woman came out from the back and asked him what was wrong and he just kept sobbing and could barely talk all I could make out was got arrested. They took him in the back for like 5 minutes then another guy came out and told me I had to leave. 

So I guess that explains what the kid was crying about.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Dang. I really enjoyed this show. One of the more interesting ones in the end, though the drama and the explosions were getting in the way.

While I understand the cancellation, I can't really see why it had to be cancelled since well, Red Jacket doesn't exactly have a clean history - they have lost their firearms license a couple of times and other things. 

With luck, they'll have a spinoff show. Probably will - there's plenty of opportunity for it under new management.

Frak. I guess there goes my chance of catching whatever is shown in the US. Guess I have to hit the download spots again because I can't seem to find streams of it off Netflix or Hulu.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Worf said:


> While I understand the cancellation, I can't really see why it had to be cancelled since well, Red Jacket doesn't exactly have a clean history - they have lost their firearms license a couple of times and other things.


Losing a firearms license is one thing, but being associated with a child rapist is quite another. No way that show was staying on the air.


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

And it just got 100 times worse. Now his 14 year old daughter has come forward and reported that he sexually assualted her when she was 12! If any of these things as true, this guy deserves to rot.

Sure seems like Vince was smart for cutting and running from that place!


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

One really wonders if people haven't been preparing for this - i mean, in the past season we see several key members leave (or create) their own companies, and the last season had someone else be head of Red Jacket. All culminating in a big move.

It's almost as if everyone knew in advance.

Though, anyone know what kind of ratings Sons of Guns got? Seems like while the current series is cancelled, it still has an opportunity to re-start that features everyone but Will. Even the new "Red Jacket" can rename themselves to distance themselves from the legacy.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Frylock said:


> And it just got 100 times worse. Now his 14 year old daughter has come forward and reported that he sexually assualted her when she was 12! If any of these things as true, this guy deserves to rot.
> 
> Sure seems like Vince was smart for cutting and running from that place!


Link??? I haven't seen this on any news site.


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## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

Adam1115 said:


> Link??? I haven't seen this on any news site.


Not sure if you are being serious or not, but see post #24.


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## Edmund (Nov 8, 2002)

ClutchBrake said:


> Not sure if you are being serious or not, but see post #24.


He's referring to a second daughter being raped. In the link there's nothing about that.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Edmund said:


> He's referring to a second daughter being raped. In the link there's nothing about that.


Right.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Edmund said:


> He's referring to a second daughter being raped. In the link there's nothing about that.


Isn't it the 14 year old daughter that he got accused of raping? Raping her since she was 11? Or is there actually another daughter?

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/...ayden-arrested-for-rape-of-11-year-old-child/


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## Edmund (Nov 8, 2002)

We aren't sure, no link. The reports were it started at 11 years old, now she's 12. Frylock comes and posts its was started at 12, and now she's 14, like its a second person. According to IMDB profile the POS only has one daughter.


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## Tobashadow (Nov 11, 2006)

Not surprising, http://bearingarms.com/second-daugh...bafbp&utm_medium=fbpage&utm_campaign=baupdate


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Wow.

Though, if all that is true, one wonders why she joined her father's company so many years ago. She was on her own with her own job (albeit working as an accountant for a grocery store).

I mean, that's the logical question - who would want to go to work voluntarily for someone who abused you? Of course, the real reason isn't logical, and it could've been coercive. I suppose the other question would be is she still working there - I mean, even though legally he's out, it's a place full of him and rather disturbing memories.

I think I need some popcorn. The twists and turns of this saga are getting interesting.


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

Edmund said:


> We aren't sure, no link. The reports were it started at 11 years old, now she's 12. Frylock comes and posts its was started at 12, and now she's 14, like its a second person. According to IMDB profile the POS only has one daughter.


Sorry, it is 2 counting Stephanie now. The article was poorly worded.

If I am Joe, I change the name of the business. Anything to do with Will I want to distance myself as far away from as humanly possible.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Holy cow. The first reports were shocking enough, but now Stephanie is claiming abuse too? 

Considering 'Red Jacket' was Will's Choctaw name, if I am remembering correctly, they really need to change it.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Worf said:


> Though, if all that is true, one wonders why she joined her father's company so many years ago. She was on her own with her own job (albeit working as an accountant for a grocery store).
> 
> I mean, that's the logical question - who would want to go to work voluntarily for someone who abused you? Of course, the real reason isn't logical, and it could've been coercive. I suppose the other question would be is she still working there - I mean, even though legally he's out, it's a place full of him and rather disturbing memories.


Sexual abuse by a family member is a strange thing. The victim hates the abuse, but loves the perpetrator, therefore they feel a large amount of guilt and shame. They don't want to say anything and be the one to "rock the boat" within the family. The kid may even feel it is their fault for "letting" it happen, so they feel just as much to blame for it as the adult.

Eventually, they can bury it down so deep that they are willing to let bygones be bygones and just go on with their lives. :shrug:

Do I think she *should have spoken up earlier? Of course! But psychologically, I can see why she may not have.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

I understand. After all, rationally speaking, you'd think when Will came to Steph back when Steph was working for a grocery store, that's opportunity to tell Will to (@^)@(* off. But I see he can be coercive and convince her to work for a really long time (a decade?). And I'm guessing Kris is too green still to be able to stand up for her against his boss/father-in-law.

Though I would not understand if she still worked at Red Jacket because that place would reek of bad memories.



Donbadabon said:


> Holy cow. The first reports were shocking enough, but now Stephanie is claiming abuse too?
> 
> Considering 'Red Jacket' was Will's Choctaw name, if I am remembering correctly, they really need to change it.


I agree, though the only reason I can see for keeping the name is "goodwill" (whatever's left of it). People go there because of reputation, and a new company name effectively is a new company. There are ways to phase out an old name and phase in a new one so it's not completely impossible, but it takes a little time. You have to keep the old name and introduce the new name gradually, then you have to switch it around with a "formerly Red Jacket" then phase it out.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Stephanie has taped an episode of The Dr. Phil Show and it aired today. Did anyone happen to catch it?


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

Jstkiddn said:


> Stephanie has taped an episode of The Dr. Phil Show and it aired today. Did anyone happen to catch it?


Full episodes are available on YouTube about a day after they air. Search tomorrow for "Dr. Phil full episodes 2014" and filter for "this week".


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Did not know that. Thanks!


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

Worf said:


> I agree, though the only reason I can see for keeping the name is "goodwill" (whatever's left of it). People go there because of reputation, and a new company name effectively is a new company. There are ways to phase out an old name and phase in a new one so it's not completely impossible, but it takes a little time. You have to keep the old name and introduce the new name gradually, then you have to switch it around with a "formerly Red Jacket" then phase it out.


Normally I would agree with this. But given the strong connection to Wil, I think they are better off cutting all ties. Make the name change more public as part of their severing all ties with him to keep the goodwill, and gain some respect from people who don't want anything associated with him.

Someone also pointed out how Stephanie has started to go by Stephanie Ford in interviews, where before she would go by Stephanie Hayden.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Frylock said:


> Normally I would agree with this. But given the strong connection to Wil, I think they are better off cutting all ties. Make the name change more public as part of their severing all ties with him to keep the goodwill, and gain some respect from people who don't want anything associated with him. Someone also pointed out how Stephanie has started to go by Stephanie Ford in interviews, where before she would go by Stephanie Hayden.


That's not because she got married?


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

The full episode is now available on YouTube:






Stephanie's part of the show starts around the 23 minute mark.


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## BarnyardCommando (Sep 1, 2014)

Adam1115 said:


> That's not because she got married?


She's been married since 2011. She only ditched her maiden name after the scandal broke.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Bob Coxner said:


> The full episode is now available on YouTube:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting that. And now a 3rd victim is going to be coming forward. Geez.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

So it doesn't sound like much happened with the oldest daughter, but it does help give credibility to the 12 year old's story. Good for her coming forward with that story but I can see why she hadn't until now. The friend thing is a concern too. Sounds like this guy is a real piece of work... Threatening to kill the employee for reporting him too...


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

After hearing how he was caught red handed by the assistant, I believe every word. This wasn't something the kid came up with on her own or a spiteful ex wife coaxing her daughter to lie.

I hope they bury the creep so far in jail that he will never see the light of day.


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> So it doesn't sound like much happened with the oldest daughter, but it does help give credibility to the 12 year old's story. Good for her coming forward with that story but I can see why she hadn't until now. The friend thing is a concern too. Sounds like this guy is a real piece of work... Threatening to kill the employee for reporting him too...


A 12 year old girl having her father take her shirt off, fondle her breasts and kiss her is a bit more than "doesn't sound like much happened". That's more than enough to put you in prison in many locales.

The psychological damage is bad enough for victims that are not related but it must be much more devastating for a daughter.

Speaking of prison, everything I read tells me that child molesters are targeted in prison and treated differently by other prisoners. Murder your parents, grandparents and a church full of adults and your fellow prisoners take little notice. Molest a child and you better watch your back for the rest of your life there. In Will's case, given his public notoriety, he'll probably be in Ad Seg (administrative segregation) the entire time, just to keep him alive as best as possible.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

I didn't mean it that way, I just meant compared to her little sister - that he never raped her and it was a single instance. I wasn't trying to imply it wasn't wrong or illegal. I was mostly saying it made sense if he was drunk and a single incident why she didn't report it and why she worked with him later...


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> I didn't mean it that way, I just meant compared to her little sister - that he never raped her and it was a single instance. I wasn't trying to imply it wasn't wrong or illegal. I was mostly saying it made sense if he was drunk and a single incident why she didn't report it and why she worked with him later...


Sorry. I agree that the two situations are very different. As for reporting it, remember that her sister didn't report it either. It was the family's personal assistant who caught him in the act and reported it.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> I didn't mean it that way, I just meant compared to her little sister - that he never raped her and it was a single instance. I wasn't trying to imply it wasn't wrong or illegal. I was mostly saying it made sense if he was drunk and a single incident why she didn't report it and why she worked with him later...


What would being drunk have to do with it? Drunk or sober, there is no excuse for those actions.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> What would being drunk have to do with it? Drunk or sober, there is no excuse for those actions.


 I don't believe that's what he meant. I think he just meant that in the daughter's young mind that maybe she just wrote it of as that and afterwards went on with life as normal. I think the booze probably gave him the nerve to try something he'd been thinking about for a while. Obviously, he grew more brave as time went on and now here we are.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> What would being drunk have to do with it? Drunk or sober, there is no excuse for those actions.


It might play into a 12 year old's decision to report it or in her determination of the seriousness of it. Obviously us adults know there is no excuse.

Not sure why you guys are taking my comments to be excusing it - I certainly am NOT. We were discussing earlier 'why wouldn't she have come forward before now? Why would she work with him?"


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Jstkiddn said:


> I don't believe that's what he meant. I think he just meant that in the daughter's young mind that maybe she just wrote it of as that and afterwards went on with life as normal. I think the booze probably gave him the nerve to try something he'd been thinking about for a while. Obviously, he grew more brave as time went on and now here we are.


Yes, exactly.


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

Some new and disturbing details:

http://www.guns.com/2014/09/13/as-d...sons-of-guns-rape-case-red-jacket-makes-best/

"The Discovery Channel cancelled "Sons of Guns" following Hayden's second arrest on Aug. 26. In the aftermath, details about another rape victim emerged. His 34-year-old daughter, who defended him after the initial charges, described to investigators an incident when she was 12.

She alleges Hayden had asked her if she wanted to get high with him, which she said yes. After the two smoked marijuana together, "(Hayden) then placed his hand over her mouth to prevent her from screaming and laid his entire body weight on top of her."

While she was unable to move, he "removed her panties and pajama shorts and vaginally raped her."

She said she had been reluctant to tell anyone except her husband about the incident because she feared no one in her family would believe her."

This is much worse than what she described on Dr. Phil.

Hayden remains in jail and hasn't made bond.

http://www.ebrso.org/ParishPrisonInmateList/PrisonInmateListApp.aspx

Please click on the to register in LAVNS and be notified when this offender's custody status changes
Last Name	First Name	Register	Date Booked	Bond Appearence Form
HAYDEN	WILLIAM MICHALE 8/27/2014	Submit


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Wow. It just keeps getting worse.

I wonder why she is telling her side of the story in pieces? Could be that she is slowly coming to terms with it I guess.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Wow, that is a very different story than she told on Dr. Phil.

Horrible.


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## ngsmith (Jan 18, 2002)

It keeps on getting worse.

http://www.fox8live.com/story/26886...stars-arrested-on-cruelty-to-juvenile-charges

Two stars of the now canceled reality show "Sons of Guns" have been arrested on child abuse charges.

Warrants were issued Thursday by the Livingston Parish Sheriff's Office for the arrest of Kristafor Ford and his wife Stephanie Hayden. According to the arrest warrant from Livingston Parish, Kristafor is accused of hitting a 9-year-old with a leather belt on the child's lower, right thigh. Reports say there was a large bruise on the child's thigh and buttocks area.

Ford was arrested Friday afternoon and charged with cruelty to a juvenile.

Stephanie Hayden was arrested Friday and charged with principal to cruelty to a juvenile because she was allegedly in the room when the incident happened.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

So basically, Kris spanked his kid?

Yeah, it was with a belt, but I'm sure there are plenty of us who got belted, spanked (with hands), caned, etc back in the day. Heck, I'm sure with the older folks you can include paddling as well. Or whippings.

Not turning it into a spanking-is-child-abuse tangent, but that's what it sounds like to me. (IMHO, I don't think spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child works looking at today's youth and teens).

And Stephanie for being there? I think she was simply making sure things didn't go wrong or to make sure Kris didn't take it too far.


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

Worf said:


> So basically, Kris spanked his kid?
> 
> Yeah, it was with a belt, but I'm sure there are plenty of us who got belted, spanked (with hands), caned, etc back in the day. Heck, I'm sure with the older folks you can include paddling as well. Or whippings.
> 
> ...


Gay bashing was ok back in the day. So were separate water fountains and schools for blacks and whites. Spousal rape was not a crime back in the day. It was a wife's duty. If she didn't like it - tough.

Times change and hopefully we get more civilized as we move along. You can punish a child without leaving large bruises on them.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

I got spanked with a belt two or three times. It did not leave a gigantic bruise. (It was also reserved for an extreme punishment, not common at all.)


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Well, your examples are poor in that it's violence against people who cannot change themselves. One does not choose to be gay (no matter how many religions say it is a choice, it isn't, because few would willingly choose to put themselves in such a position given anti-gay sentiment around the world), nor does one choose to be black, or female. It goes against treating people fairly.

Now kids, though, need proper parenting, and cause-and-effect is something learned very early (within the first or second year) growing up. You know, like putting your hand on a stove hurts, stealing from someone else makes daddy very angry, lying seems to work at first but it can backfire in a big way etc.

Or negative behaviors end up getting reinforced - if I make a big yelling, screaming and crying scene in the store, mommy or daddy will buy that toy/cookie/whatever. (Cue my story of being marched out of the supermarket by my dad so my mom can finish shopping, and lecturing me all about why what I did was wrong in public. 

Anyhow, back on topic, we don't know why Kris did what he did - is he a parent that angers easily and beats his kid up regularly? Or was it a rather serious incident that occurred?

Of course, it looks like it's the most exciting thing that's happened in Baton Rouge in a long time. Either that or Sons of Guns was huge there.


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

My point was there are crimes today, such as spousal rape, that were legal and accepted by the culture back in the day - and not that long ago. Times change and attitudes and laws regarding corporal punishment have also changed. Just ask Adrian Peterson, who despite his wealth and fame is facing trial for the same type of "whipping" of his child.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I'd bet the cops are just being super carfull due to Will's connection.


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## Allanon (Nov 2, 2005)

pmyers said:


> I'd bet the cops are just being super carfull due to Will's connection.


I was thinking the opposite, maybe Will has a few friends at the police station and this is a little payback for his daughter speaking out. You really think in Baton Rouge spanking a kid with a belt isn't a daily occurrence? And how many of those people get arrested? I think the police went a little overboard with an arrest if this was just a spanking and not outright abuse.


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

Allanon said:


> I was thinking the opposite, maybe Will has a few friends at the police station and this is a little payback for his daughter speaking out. You really think in Baton Rouge spanking a kid with a belt isn't a daily occurrence? And how many of those people get arrested? I think the police went a little overboard with an arrest if this was just a spanking and not outright abuse.


Sorry, but beating your child with a belt IS ABUSE!


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

Update on Hayden being indicted:

http://www.inquisitr.com/1689357/grand-jury-indicts-former-sons-of-guns-star-will-hayden/


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Bob Coxner said:


> My point was there are crimes today, such as spousal rape, that were legal and accepted by the culture back in the day - and not that long ago. Times change and attitudes and laws regarding corporal punishment have also changed. Just ask Adrian Peterson, who despite his wealth and fame is facing trial for the same type of "whipping" of his child.


Didn't he use the belt buckle and also whipped in the genital area? I think its one thing to use a belt, but To use the belt buckle and also whip in the genital area is way too far.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> Didn't he use the belt buckle and also whipped in the genital area? I think its one thing to use a belt, but To use the belt buckle and also whip in the genital area is way too far.


He didn't use a belt, he used a switch (a small, pliable branch). He didn't target the genitals, but they did take a hit or two. I don't like that he punished his boy that severely, but he didn't take a belt to him and certainly not the buckle.


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

Update:

http://www.nola.com/crime/baton-rouge/index.ssf/2015/08/sons_of_guns_wil.html

http://theadvocate.com/news/13290375-123/sons-of-guns-star-will


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

The wheels of justice move slowly.

His trial date has been set for 8/22/16 for two counts of aggravated rape. The other charges have no trial date yet.

http://www.wafb.com/story/31003751/trial-date-set-for-former-sons-of-guns-reality-star-accused-of-rape


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

It's pretty neat that there's still people keeping up with this, especially since it's turning into an annual posting thing.

I did run across his book the other day... published in 2014. Wonder if Discovery recalled all the unsold copies when the news broke out - it was covered in Discovery logos.


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## ngsmith (Jan 18, 2002)

Convicted, with a mandatory life sentence.

Sons of Guns reality TV star convicted of rape charges | Daily Mail Online

Will Hayden, the former star of the reality TV series Sons of Guns, was convicted Friday of raping two girls in Louisiana.

Hayden, 51, was found guilty of two counts of aggravated rape and one count of forcible rape. He faces a sentence of life in prison.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Well, I guess that's it then... the final post in this thread. All wrapped up the way we expected it.


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