# Heroes 10/1/2007 (S02E02) "Lizards"



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

If you cut off her head, will she grow a new head or will she grow a new body? 

I'm also a bit perturbed they had Peter put his shirt back on so soon.


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## CorgiMom28 (Jan 7, 2007)

Who's name did Matt hear Angela yell in the police station? I kept rewinding it but couldn't make it out.

I totally agree about "shirtless" Peter!


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

Angela screaming in her head was pretty quality stuff.

We were cringing at the end when she actually cut her toe off... grrrroooossssss


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## emandbri (Jul 5, 2004)

This week was better then last week, I even stayed awake through most of it. Still don't care about the wonder twins at all.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

emandbri said:


> This week was better then last week, I even stayed awake through most of it. Still don't care about the wonder twins at all.


I couldnt agree more.

If your car was stolen, why would you bother mentioning that you may have left it unlocked, that information doesn't help any, only gets you in trouble.

Z


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Hard to not foresee Hiro having his hero get ambushed there. Interesting that the master seems to be able to heal himself ala Claire.


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## paksen (Feb 7, 2002)

Thank goodness for Tivo, because there were an annoying amount of commercials in this episode. 9 minutes of show then 3-4 minutes of commercials. What? Did they save up the ones that they didn't use last time cuz Nissan owned the episode?


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## paksen (Feb 7, 2002)

bdowell said:


> Hard to not foresee Hiro having his hero get ambushed there. Interesting that the master seems to be able to heal himself ala Claire.


I figured last season that Kensai had to have some power, just didn't know which one.
I'm also betting that the store manager was hiding in the back room when Clair and HRG went in to have a little chat.

So she cut her toe off and it regrew...er, regenerated (I guess that's the more accurate word)... Did the stub that landed on the floor disappear?
And who wasn't yelling at Claire in the final scene "LOOK UP!!!"

Paksen


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

zordude said:


> I couldnt agree more.
> 
> If your car was stolen, why would you bother mentioning that you may have left it unlocked, that information doesn't help any, only gets you in trouble.
> 
> Z


I just think they're trying to stress how there is no lying in that relationship, esp after last season

And yeah, we can't stand the Latino Twins..

And where is my girl Nicki??


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

paksen said:


> So she cut her toe off and it regrew...er, regenerated (I guess that's the more accurate word)... Did the stub that landed on the floor disappear?


I'm betting the toe stub will regrow a whole new Claire. Mmmmmm.... Claire twins..... mraghraghraghraghraghragh.....

Or maybe the second Claire will be an _evil_ twin, complete with goatee. That would rock!!!

BTW, it seemed that fully 2/3rds of the show was in a foreign language, a lot of which was Spanish. That must have driven this guy crazy!


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## RickStrobel (Jan 19, 2000)

My TiVo quit recording right when Claire got outside of her house to the picket fence gate. Can someone recap what happened after that?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

RickStrobel said:


> My TiVo quit recording right when Claire got outside of her house to the picket fence gate. Can someone recap what happened after that?


She found a book on the ground that the boy must have dropped as he ran off. She picks it up, it's the book by Mohinder's father. She looks around, wondering where he disappeared to. Mr. Muggles is looking up and barking frantically, even juming straight up, (obviously trying to point out to Claire that the boy is up in the air somewhere), but Claire doesn't notice. The POV of the camera is from high up looking down on her as we fade to "To Be Continued...."

You missed maybe 30-40 seconds. It happened to me too, my Journeyman recording picked it up.


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## jpwoof (May 19, 2004)

too many duplicate powers in this season... superflight and regeneration..


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

Latino Twins=Nikki & Paulo

As much as I love Heroes, this episode was one of the first to really let me down. The only storyline I thought was good was Claires. When she asked her dad what the possibilities of her power could present-I thought that was the best moment of the show. No fights, no powers-just an interesting conversation. The show could use more of that.


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## Uncle Briggs (Sep 11, 2004)

RickStrobel said:


> My TiVo quit recording right when Claire got outside of her house to the picket fence gate. Can someone recap what happened after that?


Mine did too, but I had recorded Journeyman after it so I was able to see the ending.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

Did the Haitian erase Suresh's memories or not?


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## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

No, I don't think so since Suresh and Bennet are working together. It was a ruse to unite Bennet with the Haitian.

Why didn't Peter just take his stuff back? It's not like they could have stopped him.

And does anyone else find West annoying as hell? He's like the reincarnation of Wesley Crusher!


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

jpwoof said:


> too many duplicate powers in this season... superflight and regeneration..


I think there's a point to that we don't know about yet. Maybe not, but two duplicated powers in two episodes? I don't think the writers are that lazy.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Mine got cut off as well. I didn't care for Journeyman so I didn't record it this week. I'll pad an extra 5 minutes from now on!


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

I expect Hiro's story will tell us something about Claire by showing us Kensai's fate: will she die of old age, and possibly how she can be killed (besides spikes to the head). Kensai could still be alive in the present day if the regen ability grants anti-aging properties.


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## jeepair (Apr 22, 2004)

Another Trekie... Lt Malcom Reed.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

logic88 said:


> No, I don't think so since Suresh and Bennet are working together. It was a ruse to unite Bennet with the Haitian.


I think he did, as part of the ruse (he can always restore it later). The Company has too many...resources...to take the chance that they might figure out he's faking.


Peter000 said:


> I think there's a point to that we don't know about yet. Maybe not, but two duplicated powers in two episodes? I don't think the writers are that lazy.


That's exactly what I thought. There's clearly something going on.

And the fact that the powers go far further back in time than we've been led to believe is also clearly significant. Kensai is the founder of the Company?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

This episode was better than last week's but I'm still not feeling the love like I did last season after two episodes.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

spikedavis said:


> Latino Twins=Nikki & Paulo


OMG...that is SOOOOO true! No wonder I don't like them...they do seem to be sporting a Nikki & Paulo vibe. Maybe they'll eventually have the same fate. And I still can't understand it??? She goes black-eyed and so does everyone else around her. Then people around her die. Then her brother comes and sings to her to make it all better...but how did it bring that other lady back from the dead???

And when is Claire ever going to learn to be more careful??? Geesh. If you're going to do something like that, go into the bathroom where there's no windows and lock the door. Also...scissors cutting through bone like that...oh well, we're suppose to already be suspending belief anyway, right


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## MasterCephus (Jan 3, 2005)

I think that if we look at powers being around from about 1670, then we can all agree that multiple would at some point have the powers. Now we have seen someone almost 400 years ago have the same power as someone now, and we have seen two people in the same timeline have the same power. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I could be wrong and they are all tied together, but I don't think there is.

And really, I would prefer it that way anyways. If everyone has something different, you really start to get out there and then it becomes less and less plausible. Just my opinion.


So I just had a crazy thought:

What if the guy killing the Company founders now is Kensei?


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Is there a primer somewhere for who has met each other before? I thought most of them came together (or ran into each other) at the end of last season, so when some of the characters were together and not knowing each other (Parkman and Ando, for one), I was confused. Obviously I figured they must not have met, but my memory is so hazy...

Oh, and yes...more shirtless Peter please. Humina humina.


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## Lost Dog (Jan 10, 2003)

Hmmm.... Am I the only one that thinks they may have foreshadowed (and by "foreshadowed" I mean "spoiled") the season ending?



Spoiler



During the conversation with the healer we were told the Latina girl had a sickness in her strong enough to kill the devil. We know the new mysterious villain has been portrayed as a devil type figure who is much worse than Syler ever could be...



Just a thought...


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

I kept yelling LOOK UP... LOOK UP!!! The dog was looking up!!

And Mama Petrelli screaming at Matt in her head actually made me jump!!

Not shocked that Hiro's hero has a power!

By the way, the end of last season Ando was in Japan, not with the others in NY. Matt and Ando hadn't met before last night.


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

Lost Dog said:


> Hmmm.... Am I the only one that thinks they may have foreshadowed (and by "foreshadowed" I mean "spoiled") the season ending?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The devil that molly see's in her nightmares can "see" her. I'm not so sure this new character can "see" like that. At least it hasn't been shown that she can.


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

How the heck could Peter's stuff have gotten in that box. Nathan took the time to remove his wallet and keys while they were flying up before Peter went Nuk-u-lear?

Ando was in Japan, but whatever.

The Yin & Yang latino twins don't bother me yet, I'm sure the writing staff will screw something up though.


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## BrandonRe (Jul 15, 2006)

'Why does he keep saying his own name?'


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Sadara said:


> The devil that molly see's in her nightmares can "see" her. I'm not so sure this new character can "see" like that. At least it hasn't been shown that she can.


Dog is saying that the new character


Spoiler



will kill the Big Bad.


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## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

Can someone give me the story on this virus? Apparently, it's killing the Heroes and is threatening to mutate and kill regular humans as well. When was the info regarding the virus first revealed? Was this a part of last seasons plot that I have just forgotten?


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

7thton said:


> Can someone give me the story on this virus? Apparently, it's killing the Heroes and is threatening to mutate and kill regular humans as well. When was the info regarding the virus first revealed? Was this a part of last seasons plot that I have just forgotten?


Molly had the virus, Mohinder saved her with transfusions of his blood, or some derivative of his blood.

Mohinder's sister died from the virus, also revealed in season 1.


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

Dog?


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

ADG said:


> Dog?


Lost Dog, the poster of post #27.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

ADG said:


> Dog?


Referring to Lost Dog's spoiler/speculation.

EDIT: slow typer!


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

logic88 said:


> Why didn't Peter just take his stuff back? It's not like they could have stopped him.
> 
> And does anyone else find West annoying as hell? He's like the reincarnation of Wesley Crusher!


Peter probably wasn't sure he could snatch his stuff before the guy dumped it into the fire.

And I agree about Floating Boy.


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

jenhudson said:


> Is there a primer somewhere for who has met each other before? I thought most of them came together (or ran into each other) at the end of last season, so when some of the characters were together and not knowing each other (Parkman and Ando, for one), I was confused. Obviously I figured they must not have met, but my memory is so hazy...
> 
> :


Or maybe _their_ memories are hazy or haitiany.


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

Fahtrim said:


> Molly had the virus, Mohinder saved her with transfusions of his blood, or some derivative of his blood.
> 
> Mohinder's sister died from the virus, also revealed in season 1.


Don't forget...Mohinder was conceived by his parent for the purpose of saving his sister.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

I had an interesting thought! Just speculation, but I'll spoiler it anyway. 



Spoiler



Since Mohinder's sister got the virus, that means she was a super. I wonder if Mohinder has a power.


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

allan said:


> I had an interesting thought! Just speculation, but I'll spoiler it anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



Yes he does. His power is to cure the virus, kind of like the brother of the twins has the power to cure the virus his sister is instilling.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I liked the episode. I think the twins storyline is going places, not a Nikki & Paolo vibe at all (not that I ever understood the hate for them).

As for the duplicate powers thing... from the article in EW last week:



EW said:


> We know that the unspoken fan question "What's _Heroes_ going to do when they run out of cool powers?" will be addressed on the show itself. "The question presumes that there can't be a duplication of powers," teases Kring. "But what if there was a finite pool of adaptations? What if there are other people in other parts of the world breaking out with similar abilities?"


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

MasterCephus said:


> So I just had a crazy thought:
> 
> What if the guy killing the Company founders now is Kensei?


I suggested that last week and I still believe it.


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## Brute (May 14, 2004)

Sadara said:


> By the way, the end of last season Ando was in Japan, not with the others in NY. Matt and Ando hadn't met before last night.


Didn't Ando meet Matt in the future? However, I believe you are correct in that Matt hadn't met Ando before.


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## hapdrastic (Mar 31, 2006)

Okay, so no one's mentioned this, but it's what got me most interested in the story last night. Peter has a new power! Did we see the electricity last week? Because I thought he was just using telekinesis, but this week they clearly mentioned a spark, and when he fought the baddies there was definitely some electricity going on. They haven't shown anyone w/ electric powers before, have they? So my assumption is that that's who put him in the box, someone with electric powers (although I'd assumed the Haitian up until this point).



busyba said:


> I'm betting the toe stub will regrow a whole new Claire.


Check out Corey Doctorow's short story "Someone Comes to Town, Someone Leaves Town" (I think you can find a free version online IIRC).



Lost Dog said:


> Hmmm.... Am I the only one that thinks they may have foreshadowed (and by "foreshadowed" I mean "spoiled") the season ending?


That was exactly my thought as well.


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## emandbri (Jul 5, 2004)

Sadara said:


> By the way, the end of last season Ando was in Japan, not with the others in NY. Matt and Ando hadn't met before last night.


I was trying to figure out if they had met or not. I don't think Ando was in Japan though. At the season finale Ando was going to try to get Syler by himself and Hiro had save him so he was in NY at that point. I haven't rewatched the season finale yet but I'm pretty sure Ando was there but didn't meet Matt.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

emandbri said:


> I was trying to figure out if they had met or not. I don't think Ando was in Japan though. At the season finale Ando was going to try to get Syler by himself and Hiro had save him so he was in NY at that point. I haven't rewatched the season finale yet but I'm pretty sure Ando was there but didn't meet Matt.


And then Hiro teleports Ando back to their office in Japan. Ando tells him he's going to fight with Hiro and that he's not afraid. Hiro tells him he knows that he's not afraid and that he has taught him what true courage is. Hiro then teleports back to NY leaving Ando behind.



MickeS said:


> I liked the episode. I think the twins storyline is going places, not a Nikki & Paolo vibe at all (not that I ever understood the hate for them).


For me, it wasn't really a hate of the characters...I may have liked them a bit if they were introduced in the beginning. The comparison between the two is simply that they are just suddenly thrown into the storyline with no initial background or understanding of what's going on.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

I don't have any HUGE problem with the twins. But that balck fluid from the eyes is a bit of a turn-off.


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## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

isn't peter's power cold fusion blasts, and not electric bolts?


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

scheckeNYK said:


> isn't peter's power cold fusion blasts, and not electric bolts?


There was nothing "cold" about Ted's power, and the energy Peter was throwing around didn't look like anything I'd seen in S1. I think hapdrastic is right about Peter having picked up a new power during the "4 month gap".


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

hapdrastic said:


> Okay, so no one's mentioned this, but it's what got me most interested in the story last night. Peter has a new power! Did we see the electricity last week? Because I thought he was just using telekinesis, but this week they clearly mentioned a spark, and when he fought the baddies there was definitely some electricity going on.


It's part of Tedd's power. He can do radiation or something that's like an EMP blast. But that would mean that wherever Peter has been, he's been learning to gain more control over Tedd's power.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

All I can think of when I see the black stuff is the black oil in the eyes on X-Files. Not quite the same, but every time it comes up, that's what I think.


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## Tyrannosullyrex (Oct 6, 2004)

MickeS said:


> I liked the episode. I think the twins storyline is going places, not a Nikki & Paolo vibe at all (not that I ever understood the hate for them).
> 
> As for the duplicate powers thing... from the article in EW last week:


 Yeah, I figure powers are not unlike eye or hair color, there's only so many colors they can be.


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## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

dtle said:


> Don't forget...Mohinder was conceived by his parent for the purpose of saving his sister.


 Ugh...somehow, I don't remember this. More info, please?


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Tyrannosullyrex said:


> Yeah, I figure powers are not unlike eye or hair color, there's only so many colors they can be.


That depends on how common supers are. I can think of a whole slew of potential powers. If there are "only" a few hundred on the planet, they COULD have unique powers.


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## wmm_16 (Jul 10, 2003)

Didn't Peter use the cold stuff to battle Slyer in the future when Syler had Ted's power?


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

paksen said:


> So she cut her toe off and it regrew...er, regenerated (I guess that's the more accurate word)... Did the stub that landed on the floor disappear?


Snack time for Mr. Muggles.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think [the Haitian] did [erase Mohinder's memory], as part of the ruse (he can always restore it later).


I thought it was established that the Haitian can only erase, not restore?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

zordude said:


> I couldnt agree more.
> 
> If your car was stolen, why would you bother mentioning that you may have left it unlocked, that information doesn't help any, only gets you in trouble.
> 
> Z


Interesting that as soon as Nissan wasn't sponsoring the episode anymore, the car immediately got written out of the show. Maybe Nissan should have sponsored the whole season.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Am I mistaken, or wasn't it suggested during last season (in one of the interviews) that season 2 would only have a few returning heroes and instead focus on a whole new set of heroes? So far, I think the only major character we've lost (as far as we know) is Sylar. We still have Hiro, Peter, Nathan, Claire & Family, Mohinder, Ando, Matt, and the Haitian.



Spoiler



And as we see in the previews, it looks like Niki and Micah are back too.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

allan said:


> There was nothing "cold" about Ted's power, and the energy Peter was throwing around didn't look like anything I'd seen in S1. I think hapdrastic is right about Peter having picked up a new power during the "4 month gap".


Since he absorbs other powers, maybe while in space he was exposed to solar flares and magnetism from the Van Allen Belt and incorporated those into the mix.
Just think of him as Peter "Potpourri" Petrelli.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> Am I mistaken, or wasn't it suggested during last season (in one of the interviews) that season 2 would only have a few returning heroes and instead focus on a whole new set of heroes? So far, I think the only major character we've lost (as far as we know) is Sylar. We still have Hiro, Peter, Nathan, Claire & Family, Mohinder, Ando, Matt, and the Haitian.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was the original intent, but they bagged it when they realized that successful shows stay successful because people care about the characters and want to continue following their stories.

And you clearly didn't pay very close attention to the previews, because


Spoiler



Sylar is in there too.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

LordKronos said:


> Am I mistaken, or wasn't it suggested during last season (in one of the interviews) that season 2 would only have a few returning heroes and instead focus on a whole new set of heroes? So far, I think the only major character we've lost (as far as we know) is Sylar. We still have Hiro, Peter, Nathan, Claire & Family, Mohinder, Ando, Matt, and the Haitian.


I think that's what they were going to do but then they decided to go with the spinoff instead. So we've got all our old heroes back and the spinoff will introduce new heroes.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

scheckeNYK said:


> isn't peter's power cold fusion blasts, and not electric bolts?


And possible the irish dont' know the distinction.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Magister said:


> And possible the irish dont' know the distinction.


Why wouldn't the Irish know the distinction, huh??? Are you saying they're too drunk to tell the difference?!?! RACIST!!! I AM OUTRAGED!!!!


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> That was the original intent, but they bagged it when they realized that successful shows stay successful because people care about the characters and want to continue following their stories.


I'm sure I wasn't the only one who thought they were crazy when they first announced what they intended to do. I'm glad they changed their minds.


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

paksen said:


> So she cut her toe off and it regrew...er, regenerated (I guess that's the more accurate word)... Did the stub that landed on the floor disappear?
> "
> 
> Paksen


I didn't get this whole scene. She already knew she can regrow fingers because she cor several cut off in the pilot, I believe, and they grew back. Mr. Muggles even ran off with one of them. So is she REALLY that blonde and forget that she's regrown fingers?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Fleegle said:


> I didn't get this whole scene. She already knew she can regrow fingers because she cor several cut off in the pilot, I believe, and they grew back. Mr. Muggles even ran off with one of them. So is she REALLY that blonde and forget that she's regrown fingers?


Maybe the writers are blonde.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Fleegle said:


> I didn't get this whole scene. She already knew she can regrow fingers because she cor several cut off in the pilot, I believe, and they grew back. Mr. Muggles even ran off with one of them. So is she REALLY that blonde and forget that she's regrown fingers?


I don't remember her losing fingers. She got them mangled in the disposal, but I don't remember any being completely cut off. I could be wrong though.


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## cheerdude (Feb 27, 2001)

I don't remember her cutting off her fingers in the pilot... just the fall.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Fleegle said:


> I didn't get this whole scene. She already knew she can regrow fingers because she cor several cut off in the pilot, I believe, and they grew back. Mr. Muggles even ran off with one of them. So is she REALLY that blonde and forget that she's regrown fingers?


I don't remember that... I remember she twisted her fingers badly in the garbage disposal, but not that any of them fell off.

Then again, I'm blonde too. 

But I would think that they wouldn't have made a big deal about this if it had happened before.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

allan said:


> Peter probably wasn't sure he could snatch his stuff before the guy dumped it into the fire.


If only he knew that he had all the time in the world, thanks to Hiro's powers.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I understand that Claire's body parts can regenerate but cutting off a toe or sticking her hand into boiling water etc... has got to hurt like a mofo. I'd like to see her do more than wince.


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## Bill Reeves (Jul 18, 2002)

Fleegle said:


> I didn't get this whole scene. She already knew she can regrow fingers because she cor several cut off in the pilot, I believe, and they grew back. Mr. Muggles even ran off with one of them. So is she REALLY that blonde and forget that she's regrown fingers?


I thought she was testing what the biology teacher was talking about earlier in the episode -- humans have outgrown some of their own body parts which are no longer required, like the appendix, or the pinky toe for balance. She wanted to see if her pinky toe was really necessary and if her healing power would not grow it back if it were not necessary.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

In the past she has always tried to "put stuff back together". We have even commented on this in threads from season 1, such as pushing ribs back into place. I don't recall the dog running off with a finger, but even if it did, she probably retrieved it and put it back into place. Perhaps part of her regenerative powers must be willfully used, and her toe might not have grown back if she hadn't concentrated on it growing back.


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## MasterCephus (Jan 3, 2005)

> I understand that Claire's body parts can regenerate but cutting off a toe or sticking her hand into boiling water etc... has got to hurt like a mofo. I'd like to see her do more than wince.


True, but think about this...we don't know when the regeneration/healing starts. It could be that the nerve receptors are almost instantly healed and she wouldn't feel that much pain.

Just a thought.


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

spikedavis said:


> Latino Twins=Nikki & Paulo


Heh, last week I turned to my friends and said, "Oh god, it's ethnic Nikki." This week to do anything to change my mind.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

dswallow said:


> I'm also a bit perturbed they had Peter put his shirt back on so soon.


Ditto!

I'm wishing I paid more attention during last season's Mohinder / sister / flashback stories.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

I don't know what's up with people comparing the Bobbsy Twins to Nikki & Paulo. The approach is completely different; they've devoted 1/3 of both these two episodes to them. Compare this to Nikki & Paulo's introduction, which was...

<camera pans across castaway extras>
Nikki: "Paulo, you suck."
Paulo: "What? Why are you saying this?"

<stuff happens for 30 minutes, then the camera shows extras again>
Paulo: "So why did Hurley say that?"
Nikki: "Because the audience likes him to be witty."

With Nikki & Paulo, every time they showed them the approach wasn't introducing characters, it was more like randomly letting extras speak.

When you have a guest star in a show, you never complain about it. Suddenly there's a new character who's doing things. That's how it is with the twins, they're doing things but haven't interacted with the longtime characters yet.

Did you have a problem with Linderman? He was introduced late in the game but nobody seemed to mind.

Greg


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

gchance said:


> I don't know what's up with people comparing the Bobbsy Twins to Nikki & Paulo.


Ah, I don't really watch Lost, so I didn't really realize the first poster was referring to Lost (sorta glance over the Paulo thing I guess). I was referring to Ali Larter's Nikki.


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## RickStrobel (Jan 19, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Interesting that as soon as Nissan wasn't sponsoring the episode anymore, the car immediately got written out of the show. Maybe Nissan should have sponsored the whole season.


I think there's something more to this story.

Also, modern cars are pretty hard to steal, aren't they? Even if you leave the doors unlocked.


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

hapdrastic said:


> Okay, so no one's mentioned this, but it's what got me most interested in the story last night. Peter has a new power! Did we see the electricity last week? Because I thought he was just using telekinesis, but this week they clearly mentioned a spark, and when he fought the baddies there was definitely some electricity going on. They haven't shown anyone w/ electric powers before, have they? So my assumption is that that's who put him in the box, someone with electric powers (although I'd assumed the Haitian up until this point).





Spoiler



It's public knowledge (so no spoiler tags) that the character played by Kristen Bell will have electrical powers and has ties to the Petrellis. So maybe this is foreshadowing of something that happened to Peter in those four months.

And if they're going to devote 1/3 of each episode to new characters, I would much rather it be KB than the Bizarro Wonder Twins.

Peter's memory loss is SOOOO Haitian ...


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Shakhari said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 It might be public knowledge to those who seek out information about upcoming shows, but for those of us who actively avoid this kind of information so we can actually enjoy the surprises when they air, I don't think it's public at all. I'd appreciate it if you would spoilerize your first paragraph.


----------



## dimented (May 21, 2003)

Not common knowledge at all dude.


----------



## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

dimented said:


> Not common knowledge at all dude.


yeah, didnt' know that at all, didn't think future stuff was supposed to be in this particular thread ...


----------



## dimented (May 21, 2003)

It didn't bother me but I know it will bother many here. I don't see how anything about a future episode could be considered common knowledge.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Yeah, I'm not usually part of the spoiler police but that was just going too far.



gchance said:


> Did you have a problem with Linderman? He was introduced late in the game but nobody seemed to mind.
> 
> Greg


No. Why would I? His character was well explained through the whole season. The problem I have is being thrown into a storyline I know nothing about. How am I suppose to be able to care about these two when I know NOTHING about them yet? A little background info or some explaination would be helpful and then maybe I could care. It's not the fact that they're being introduced so late in the game, it's the fact that they weren't introduced AT ALL. They were just thrown on us out of the blue.


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

The only reason I even knew


Spoiler



that Kristen Bell would be on the show


 is that I saw it here. I knew nothing else about that.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Maybe she'll zap! Shakari for that spoiler.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

unicorngoddess said:


> The problem I have is being thrown into a storyline I know nothing about. How am I suppose to be able to care about these two when I know NOTHING about them yet? A little background info or some explaination would be helpful and then maybe I could care. It's not the fact that they're being introduced so late in the game, it's the fact that they weren't introduced AT ALL. They were just thrown on us out of the blue.


That's just it. They ARE being introduced, you're getting some background info as you go, and some explanation as you go. We're only two episodes in. If they took all of their scenes from the past two episodes, and whatever scenes they have in the next two to form one complete episode of JUST the two characters, you'd be complaining about how you haven't seen any of the regular characters.

I think what it amounts to is you don't like new characters.

Greg


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> No. Why would I? His character was well explained through the whole season. The problem I have is being thrown into a storyline I know nothing about. How am I suppose to be able to care about these two when I know NOTHING about them yet? A little background info or some explaination would be helpful and then maybe I could care. It's not the fact that they're being introduced so late in the game, it's the fact that they weren't introduced AT ALL. They were just thrown on us out of the blue.


I'm glad they're being introduced this way. I much prefer this method to the usual TV method of overexplanation. Usually you'll have someone spouting off all kinds of expositional dialogue and giving way too much information. This way, we're just thrown into a realistic story and we learn about them from what they're doing.

Besides, what more do you want to know at this point? Their names are Maya and Allejandro. They're twins, and she's the older one. They're wanted for murder. Apparently when they're apart, she exudes some black stuff from her eyes that kills those around her. His presence keeps her power in check, and he can reverse its effects if he wants to. They're trying to get to the US to find Mohinder's father, because they believe that Maya is sick and that he'll have a cure.

What more do you need to know? We're supposed to be a little bit in the dark about them, because they are in the dark themselves, and we're supposed to get that feeling of uncertainty when we see them. I think the writers are doing a fine job with that storyline so far.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

gchance said:


> That's just it. They ARE being introduced, you're getting some background info as you go, and some explanation as you go. We're only two episodes in. If they took all of their scenes from the past two episodes, and whatever scenes they have in the next two to form one complete episode of JUST the two characters, you'd be complaining about how you haven't seen any of the regular characters.
> 
> I think what it amounts to is you don't like new characters.
> 
> Greg


Read my reply again. I said I can't manage to care about them because I don't know anything about them YET. And until more information is given about them it's going to make it hard for me to care about them. Yes, I would perfer it if they could've explained things off the bat...then maybe I could become invested in these two. But seeing as how the only thing we know is they are twins, she kills people with black tears, and he sings a song that can bring the people back to life...I just haven't been able to connect to them yet. This doesn't mean that once their storyline is explained I'll still hate them. I just would like to know a little more about them. And until then, their scenes rather bore me because I don't see the connection to our main storyline.

People had the EXACT same feelings about Nikki/Jessica last season.


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> People had the EXACT same feelings about Nikki/Jessica last season.


I _still_ don't care about Niki.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

unicorngoddess said:


> People had the EXACT same feelings about Nikki/Jessica last season.


My reason for not liking that part of the story was that a) the actress is boring and b) her powers were boring, confusing and ill-defined. It had nothing to do with that storyline being separated from the others - so was Parkman's in the beginning, and he was 10x more interesting as a character.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> It might be public knowledge to those who seek out information about upcoming shows, but for those of us who actively avoid this kind of information so we can actually enjoy the surprises when they air, I don't think it's public at all. I'd appreciate it if you would spoilerize your first paragraph.


3 minutes. I really would've expected the spoiler Nazi's to be more attentive.


----------



## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

MickeS said:


> My reason for not liking that part of the story was that a) the actress is boring and b) her powers were boring, confusing and ill-defined. It had nothing to do with that storyline being separated from the others - so was Parkman's in the beginning, and he was 10x more interesting as a character.


It felt like they changed her powers to something different halfway through. We heard an animal sound when she was messing up the people at the poker game. Then not a peep about that.. it turned out to only be super-strength in the end?


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> Maybe she'll zap! Shakari for that spoiler.


 :up:

:down: :down: to Shakari for spoiling parts of the upcoming episodes. I also was not aware of


Spoiler



Kristen Bell, her character, or her character's powers.


Please use more discretion and respect for those of us who really try to enjoy the show as it moves along at its own pace.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Apparently when they're apart, she exudes some black stuff from her eyes that kills those around her. His presence keeps her power in check, and he can reverse its effects if he wants to.


I didn't take it as them being apart. I thought it was when she cries, people die. Her tears are black. She was crying because she thought she was leaving her brother behind to get caught.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> I didn't take it as them being apart. I thought it was when she cries, people die. Her tears are black. She was crying because she thought she was leaving her brother behind to get caught.


No, the black eyes/tears happen when she's killing people. Her brother got the black eyes, and then they faded--presumably, he was absorbing and dissolving her ability.

I guess since they're twins, their powers are linked directly. She can do it, and he can undo it. Not only can he "turn off" her power, but he can heal people who have been stricken by her but not died yet.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> I didn't take it as them being apart. I thought it was when she cries, people die. Her tears are black. She was crying because she thought she was leaving her brother behind to get caught.


I'm pretty sure that it has to do with them being separated. That's why in the season premiere, when the people wanted to take her in the cab and leave him behind, he said something like, "No, you don't know what you're doing."


----------



## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

RickStrobel said:


> I think there's something more to this story.
> 
> Also, modern cars are pretty hard to steal, aren't they? Even if you leave the doors unlocked.


While it seems odd they'd pick her specific car to steal, I'd call that a likely skill of Micah's. If he can hack phones and ATMs then starting a car shouldn't be too tough.


----------



## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Speculation I didn't see in this thread. 
Sorry if it was mentioned, I kinda skimmed over it.



Spoiler



Kensei can heal himself in 1671, I think he's Clair's ancestor.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I really wish people would stop spoilering speculation. It's really annoying.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

So I don't get the whole Save the Cheerleader storyline from last year.

Who did she need saving from? Could Syler really cut off her head (yes, I know he did in the future). Wouldn't she just heal?


----------



## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

"Welcome to Kopy Kingdom. How can I help you?"

About Kensei. It could be possible that ONLY he had a power that far back.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

MasterCephus said:


> True, but think about this...we don't know when the regeneration/healing starts. It could be that the nerve receptors are almost instantly healed and she wouldn't feel that much pain.
> 
> Just a thought.


She may have some immunity to pain but the nerves being healed would increase the pain, no? Nerves shutting down from too much pain (shock) or from damage would remove pain. Even locals that numb areas of the body are shutting the nerves down.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> So I don't get the whole Save the Cheerleader storyline from last year.
> 
> Who did she need saving from? Could Syler really cut off her head (yes, I know he did in the future). Wouldn't she just heal?


It's pretty easy to get a decent explanation for that. If they need to, I would say that cutting off all the nerves between the spine and the head will kill her and keep her from regenerating.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

NJChris said:


> It felt like they changed her powers to something different halfway through. We heard an animal sound when she was messing up the people at the poker game. Then not a peep about that.. it turned out to only be super-strength in the end?


Yep, seemed like it to me too. Especially if you read the comics, it really seemed almost were-wolf-like to me with the claw marks and stuff. That's why it felt like her powers were never clearly defined to me. Not only was it the split personality thing, which felt like it went nowhere until they just sort of ended it, but what you point out too.


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

MickeS said:


> Yep, seemed like it to me too. Especially if you read the comics, it really seemed almost were-wolf-like to me with the claw marks and stuff. That's why it felt like her powers were never clearly defined to me. Not only was it the split personality thing, which felt like it went nowhere until they just sort of ended it, but what you point out too.


Wasn't there an painting by Issac in one of the early episodes that implied she had a "she-hulk" kind of thing going on?


----------



## alansh (Jan 3, 2003)

The brain has been shown as key to their powers -- Claire was incapacitated while the tree branch was stuck in her head. If Sylar could extract her brain faster than she healed, I think it would kill her.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

busyba said:


> Wasn't there an painting by Issac in one of the early episodes that implied she had a "she-hulk" kind of thing going on?


IIRc there was something like that... it might also have been in the comics.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Turtleboy said:


> So I don't get the whole Save the Cheerleader storyline from last year.
> 
> Who did she need saving from? Could Syler really cut off her head (yes, I know he did in the future). Wouldn't she just heal?


They had to save Claire from Sylar. The whole point was for Sylar NOT to get Claire's power because if he got Claire's power then he would be invincible.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> In the past she has always tried to "put stuff back together". We have even commented on this in threads from season 1, such as pushing ribs back into place. I don't recall the dog running off with a finger, but even if it did, she probably retrieved it and put it back into place. Perhaps part of her regenerative powers must be willfully used, and her toe might not have grown back if she hadn't concentrated on it growing back.


I really don't think the following is a spoiler, but I'm erring on the side of caution and spoilerizing it because comes from an outside source (Greg Beeman, director/producer) and directly addresses the issue of regrowth vs. reattachment as it pertains to this specific scene.



Spoiler



Here's where Greg Beeman dicusses it in his blog



> Interestingly, the scripted version of that scene was that Claires toe didnt re-grow. She sat there looking at it, going grow grow then, in desperation, she picked up the severed toe and held it up to the stump  and the stump and toe reattached. I actually think that version, intellectually, was cooler. But in post, it took a lot longer, in an episode that was already long and the visual was actually a little unclear. So we decided to go with the regenerating stump.


----------



## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

7thton said:


> Don't forget...Mohinder was conceived by his parent for the purpose of saving his sister.
> 
> Ugh...somehow, I don't remember this. More info, please?


I thought I remembered this was the case. However, after not finding it anywhere on the Heroes wiki, I guess I was wrong. Must've mistaken it for some other shows.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

allan said:


> I don't have any HUGE problem with the twins. But that balck fluid from the eyes is a bit of a turn-off.


I keep waiting for a one-armed Krycek to suddenly appear.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wprager said:


> I keep waiting for a one-armed Krycek to suddenly appear.


The arm grew back.

He works at Best Buy now.


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

I was so happy when they killed Isaac last season and got rid of the show crippling Deus Ex Machina of his power. I suspected they'd bring it back again through Peter or Sylar, but this whole 8 painting we didn't know about is garbage. This knowing the future crap is all a crutch being used by the same unimaginative writers that were responsible for the horrible final arc of the last season.

Also, I was hoping that whatever caused Peter to lose his memories would have caused him to lose his powers so we could get rid of that conundrum too. Besides the fact that he clearly stated last season that he has to remember how the person made him feel to use their powers, which means if he has amnesia that he can't use their powers, I don't find it interesting at all to watch an all-powerful character.

I think that not only will Kensei be an ancestor of Claire (and by extension Nathan and Peter) but also Hiro and Kaito (through his marriage with the Japanese girl.)


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The arm grew back.
> 
> He works at Best Buy now.


I saw him at Buy More.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

danterner said:


> I really don't think the following is a spoiler, but I'm erring on the side of caution and spoilerizing it because comes from an outside source (Greg Beeman, director/producer) and directly addresses the issue of regrowth vs. reattachment as it pertains to this specific scene.


While I can understand their reasons for doing it the way they did, I think the scripted way was better and would have allowed for more interesting situations in the future.


----------



## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

dtle said:


> I thought I remembered this was the case. However, after not finding it anywhere on the Heroes wiki, I guess I was wrong. Must've mistaken it for some other shows.


No, you are correct. They explained how a second child can have the antibodies of whatever disease the first child suffered from and that his parents hoped to cure his sister with a treatment derived from Mohinder's blood, but they were too late.


----------



## glumlord (Oct 27, 2003)

NoThru22 said:


> Also, I was hoping that whatever caused Peter to lose his memories would have caused him to lose his powers so we could get rid of that conundrum too. Besides the fact that he clearly stated last season that he has to remember how the person made him feel to use their powers, which means if he has amnesia that he can't use their powers, I don't find it interesting at all to watch an all-powerful character.


Truthfully that was the only thing that bothered me so far about Peter was that he


----------



## dirtypacman (Feb 3, 2004)

I thought this episode was great ... I don't like the addition of more freaks into the mix although I knew it would happen.

season 2 
episode 1 - Grade C+ maybe B
episode 2 - Grade B+ mabe A


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MickeS said:


> I saw him at Buy More.


You say toe-MAY-toe...


----------



## RickStrobel (Jan 19, 2000)

Anyone besides me think that Kensei is from the future (present day)?


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

glumlord said:


> Truthfully that was the only thing that bothered me so far about Peter was that he


Yeah that bothered me too.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The arm grew back.
> 
> He works at Best Buy now.





MickeS said:


> I saw him at Buy More.


What are you guys talking about? Nicholas Lea isn't on Chuck, is he?


----------



## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

RickStrobel said:


> Anyone besides me think that Kensei is from the future (present day)?


The thought had crossed my mind.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

RickStrobel said:


> Anyone besides me think that Kensei is from the future (present day)?


I don't think he'd be acting like such a louse if he knew that he had powers and had come there from the future.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

NoThru22 said:


> I was so happy when they killed Isaac last season and got rid of the show crippling Deus Ex Machina of his power. I suspected they'd bring it back again through Peter or Sylar, but this whole 8 painting we didn't know about is garbage. This knowing the future crap is all a crutch being used by the same unimaginative writers that were responsible for the horrible final arc of the last season.
> 
> Also, I was hoping that whatever caused Peter to lose his memories would have caused him to lose his powers so we could get rid of that conundrum too. Besides the fact that he clearly stated last season that he has to remember how the person made him feel to use their powers, which means if he has amnesia that he can't use their powers, I don't find it interesting at all to watch an all-powerful character.
> 
> I think that not only will Kensei be an ancestor of Claire (and by extension Nathan and Peter) but also Hiro and Kaito (through his marriage with the Japanese girl.)


I agree in a limited sense about the paintings this season, they seem kind of arbitrary and cheap. Overall Isaac was ok for me last season because much of his character related to the premise of the season, even if they got bogged down with cheap tricks.

I don't agree about your problems with peter. He said he was able to activate the powers by remembering what he felt like then. That does not mean that it is the only way for him to do that or that he has to have that memory. Taken literally, he just has to have that emotional state and not the memory that triggered it.

Furthermore, he clearly demonstrated superior mastery of his skills by the end of last season and in the future of last season. By 4 months later he could be so used to them that they are reflexively activating now without the need of the memory crutch or even his awareness that they exist.


----------



## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I don't think he'd be acting like such a louse if he knew that he had powers and had come there from the future.


Maybe he doesn't remember...


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

glumlord said:


> Truthfully that was the only thing that bothered me so far about Peter was that he


Have you considered writing for the Sopranos?


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> What are you guys talking about? Nicholas Lea isn't on Chuck, is he?


Darn it! I was of course thinking of Adam Baldwin. 

And Kensei being from the future would make sense - that would explain why his English sounds so modern.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> Have you considered writing for the Sopranos?


LOL.


----------



## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> It might be public knowledge to those who seek out information about upcoming shows, but for those of us who actively avoid this kind of information so we can actually enjoy the surprises when they air, I don't think it's public at all. I'd appreciate it if you would spoilerize your first paragraph.


Oh, please. We live in age of such too-much-information saturation that once something hits the media, the only way someone doesn't know it, whether they want to or not, is to bury their heads in the sand and never come up for air. The fact that the actress is going to be on the show and what her powers are going to be have been around for months. The rest was just speculation on my part.

I didn't realize there were people who didn't know, I didn't think it was a big deal not to spoilerize it, and I still don't. You could have simply stopped reading, you know.

But since some kind spoiler nazi took it upon him or herself to edit my post with spoiler tags, none of your fellow ostriches need be offended.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Shakhari said:


> Oh, please. We live in age of such too-much-information saturation that once something hits the media, the only way someone doesn't know it, whether they want to or not, is to bury their heads in the sand and never come up for air. The fact that the actress is going to be on the show and what her powers are going to be have been around for months. The rest was just speculation on my part.
> 
> I didn't realize there were people who didn't know, I didn't think it was a big deal not to spoilerize it, and I still don't. You could have simply stopped reading, you know.
> 
> But since some kind spoiler nazi took it upon him or herself to edit my post with spoiler tags, none of your fellow ostriches need be offended.


Excellent way to endear yourself to your fellow forum members.

Of course the information is out there, and most people probably were aware that KB was joining the cast. But many people don't like to know what's going to happen before it happens, and the information about what her powers would be was definitely not common knowledge. I suggest you simply follow the forum rules rather than trying to impose your ideas on the rest of us.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> What are you guys talking about? Nicholas Lea isn't on Chuck, is he?


No, just somebody I always confuse with him.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Shakhari said:


> Oh, please. We live in age of such too-much-information saturation that once something hits the media, the only way someone doesn't know it, whether they want to or not, is to bury their heads in the sand and never come up for air. The fact that the actress is going to be on the show and what her powers are going to be have been around for months. The rest was just speculation on my part.
> 
> I didn't realize there were people who didn't know, I didn't think it was a big deal not to spoilerize it, and I still don't. You could have simply stopped reading, you know.
> 
> But since some kind spoiler nazi took it upon him or herself to edit my post with spoiler tags, none of your fellow ostriches need be offended.


The rule is simple: information that is not merely speculation and that has not been shown on the show up until the episode that the thread is about should be spoiler tagged.

Some of us like to be ostriches. Respect that or stop posting.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Nice little rant shakhari but we have rules here and you disobeyed them. If you don't agree with the rules then petition to get them changed. Don't just flagrantly disobey them because you don't agree with them and then insult people who agree with them.

About the spoilered info about the toe from danterner above:



Spoiler



So what does that mean then? Are we to believe it is now within her power to regenerate limbs, or are we to believe that the toe was insigificant, and if she tried it with a major organ, it wouldn't work because she would in fact have to put the organ back?? That blog info made me even more confused.... because it seemed to indicate that the writers agreed with the idea that she has to "put stuff back" first, yet they totally changed it for the scene??


----------



## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

Shakhari said:


> I didn't realize there were people who didn't know, I didn't think it was a big deal not to spoilerize it, and I still don't. You could have simply stopped reading, you know.


Wow. People were tying to nicely let you know that it should be spoilerized. Is it that hard to do? Doesn't take much effort. Besides, that's how it works here.

Lovely attitude.


----------



## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> Excellent way to endear yourself to your fellow forum members.
> 
> Of course the information is out there, and most people probably were aware that KB was joining the cast. But many people don't like to know what's going to happen before it happens, and the information about what her powers would be was definitely not common knowledge. I suggest you simply follow the forum rules rather than trying to impose your ideas on the rest of us.


I'm not trying to impose anything. I simply said I didn't think it was a spoiler, so I didn't spoilerize it. I was surprised by everyone's reaction and went off because I thought it was over-reaction. And at the risk of further un-endearing myself to my fellow forum members, I still do.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Shakhari said:


> I'm not trying to impose anything. I simply said I didn't think it was a spoiler, so I didn't spoilerize it. I was surprised by everyone's reaction and went off because I thought it was over-reaction. And at the risk of further un-endearing myself to my fellow forum members, I still do.


Have you seen the episodes in question? If not, you have no way of knowing if what you posted was a major spoiler or just a minor, insigificant one. For all we know, there would be some mystery involved that unfolded over the course of several episodes.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> About the spoilered info about the toe from danterner above:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think the incident was done purely for West to see it through the window in order to learn Clair has a power herself and has no other significance or importance at all.


----------



## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

dswallow said:


> I really wish people would stop spoilering speculation. It's really annoying.


Would you have have me not spoiler it? It was just speculation afterall.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

JimSpence said:


> Would you have have me not spoiler it? It was just speculation afterall.


Speculation shouldn't be spoilered. It's about as bad as people that spoiler things from a past or current episode in the "official" episode discussion thread. While there's no "harm" in doing so it just leads to confusing people about when they really need to use the spoiler tags and makes following the discussion a little more difficult since it now requires a manual operation to read.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

dswallow said:


> I think the incident was done purely for West to see it through the window in order to learn Clair has a power herself and has no other significance or importance at all.


That's lame if true, because the possibility of claire not only testing her powers but potentially using them to help others is appealing to me. Most of the "heroes" don't seem to be even trying to tap the potential of their powers or acting as real heroes. Except maybe hiro. Second would be, what, parkman, and his cheating on detective exams?


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

dswallow said:


> TAsunder said:
> 
> 
> > About the spoilered info about the toe from danterner above:
> ...


BTW, the preceding post is an example of speculation and spoilers in one post. I'm replying to someone who posted information provided by a show insider and related to that speculating about the significance of events that aired in the episode, and doing so in such a way I'm not restating anything from the spoiler.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

ok, she cut off the toe and it grew back. What happened to the old toe? Did it grow a new Claire?


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

Sirius Black said:


> ok, she cut off the toe and it grew back. What happened to the old toe? Did it grow a new Claire?


Yes, but she has no emotions.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Sirius Black said:


> ok, she cut off the toe and it grew back. What happened to the old toe? Did it grow a new Claire?


Cut off from her brain, it became dog food.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

NJChris said:


> Yes, but she has no emotions.


Sounds like the perfect girlfriend.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Shakhari said:


> Oh, please. We live in age of such too-much-information saturation that once something hits the media, the only way someone doesn't know it, whether they want to or not, is to bury their heads in the sand and never come up for air. The fact that the actress is going to be on the show and what her powers are going to be have been around for months. The rest was just speculation on my part.
> 
> I didn't realize there were people who didn't know, I didn't think it was a big deal not to spoilerize it, and I still don't. You could have simply stopped reading, you know.
> 
> But since some kind spoiler nazi took it upon him or herself to edit my post with spoiler tags, none of your fellow ostriches need be offended.


I don't burry my head in the sand...I knew the actress had been signed to the show but didn't have a clue until you posted what her powers were and who she was connected with. I still don't have a clue where I was suppose to find that as common knowledge either. Just because you know something doesn't mean other people know it and the rules are clearly laid out just for this reason.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> That's lame if true, because the possibility of claire not only testing her powers but potentially using them to help others is appealing to me. Most of the "heroes" don't seem to be even trying to tap the potential of their powers or acting as real heroes. Except maybe hiro. Second would be, what, parkman, and his cheating on detective exams?


It's appealing to me, as well, but it would go against the "Ordinary people - Extraordinary Abilities" conceit of the show. Our introduction to Claire, in the first season, had her rescuing a victim/firefighter from the burning train, right? So in that particular case she did use her power to help another. She's also used it to hurt others, for that matter - when she intentionally crashed her car while her rapist/classmate was a passenger. But, apart from those instances, she's painted as a pretty ordinary kid (surrounded by some pretty extraordinary events).

Claire's much more daring than I think I would be, were I in her shoes and given her power. Maybe it's that I'm just too squeamish. But I think I would be much more cautious. What if her power doesn't work on Tuesdays? Or only works when the moon is full? Or only works a finite number of times? Or only works once per body part? The price is pretty high for her, particularly, to try to learn about her power and its limits by trial and error. It was pretty crazy of her to take a scissor to her toe, IMHO.

Having said all that: Since the appeal of seeing superheroes, not just "heroes," is strong, I'll bet we do eventually see a storyline involving a hero (maybe someone not yet introduced) that does try to parlay their ability into superhero status. Arguably (as you pointed out) we're already seeing that, with Hiro. He's following the Hero's Path, intentionally so. And he's one of the most popular characters on the show, maybe for that very reason.


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## TreborPugly (May 2, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> No, the black eyes/tears happen when she's killing people. Her brother got the black eyes, and then they faded--presumably, he was absorbing and dissolving her ability.
> 
> I guess since they're twins, their powers are linked directly. She can do it, and he can undo it. Not only can he "turn off" her power, but he can heal people who have been stricken by her but not died yet.


My impression is that it is because they are separated. When being separated by the thugs running the truck transport, she warned them that they were making a big mistake. I think without him present, she becomes deadly. Hopefully she'll get some training in control, and be able to turn it off without him around, and he'll get training to be able to do any sort of healing, rather than only healing her curse.

On the spoiler debate: I had no idea of who new cast members were or what their powers would be. I don't watch entertainment shows, I don't read web sites about shows, other than discussions here, after the fact. Most people just watch TV. We don't research it.


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## TreborPugly (May 2, 2002)

danterner said:


> Claire's much more daring than I think I would be, were I in her shoes and given her power. Maybe it's that I'm just too squeamish. But I think I would be much more cautious. What if her power doesn't work on Tuesdays? Or only works when the moon is full? Or only works a finite number of times? Or only works once per body part? The price is pretty high for her, particularly, to try to learn about her power and its limits by trial and error. It was pretty crazy of her to take a scissor to her toe, IMHO.


Well, at the beginning of the last season, she "killed herself" many, many times, on camera, to create proof of her ability. She obviously had complete faith in it, or was suicidal and fatalistic. (quite possible in a teenager)

I think the toe thing was done by the writers for new viewers, who haven't seen Claire throw herself off the bleachers 5 times, get impaled, etc...

The crazy thing about the scissors to the toe is that no way would scissors cut off your toe... It would hurt like hell, give you a big cut, maybe smash your toe a bit with serious force, but regular scissors wouldn't cut it off. Get some cable cutters or something.

So what does it say about flying boy that he keeps peeping on Claire? If you had the ability to fly, would you be peeping in windows? Doesn't that have the same standard of using binoculars to spy on neighbors? Most of us wouldn't do that because we know it's wrong - has this kid lost his moral compass?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

My poultry shears could definitely cut off a toe. But not normal scissors, probably.


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## jbondsr (Dec 20, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think he did, as part of the ruse (he can always restore it later). The Company has too many...resources...to take the chance that they might figure out he's faking.
> 
> That's exactly what I thought. There's clearly something going on.
> 
> And the fact that the powers go far further back in time than we've been led to believe is also clearly significant. Kensai is the founder of the Company?


Maybe Clare is Kensai grand kid, they never did show Father Petrelli who uses that japanese symbol for his company.


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

TreborPugly said:


> My impression is that it is because they are separated. When being separated by the thugs running the truck transport, she warned them that they were making a big mistake. I think without him present, she becomes deadly. Hopefully she'll get some training in control, and be able to turn it off without him around, and he'll get training to be able to do any sort of healing, rather than only healing her curse.


Since they are siblings they may each have their own power, and his may be that he negates or blocks the power of other heroes, like the Haitian blocks the powers of others.


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## TreborPugly (May 2, 2002)

Kablemodem said:


> Since they are siblings they may each have their own power, and his may be that he negates or blocks the power of other heroes, like the Haitian blocks the powers of others.


Well, with the imagery used, (his eyes becoming dark and then clearing) I think he was absorbing her "curse" into himself and then clearing it out, like an empathic healer.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

danterner said:


> Claire's much more daring than I think I would be, were I in her shoes and given her power. Maybe it's that I'm just too squeamish. But I think I would be much more cautious. What if her power doesn't work on Tuesdays? Or only works when the moon is full? Or only works a finite number of times? Or only works once per body part? The price is pretty high for her, particularly, to try to learn about her power and its limits by trial and error. It was pretty crazy of her to take a scissor to her toe, IMHO.


Earlier in the episode it was established that the little toe is unnecessary. I think that is why Claire chose to try her experiment of regrow vs. reattach using the little toe. If it failed for whatever reason, it's not like she'd miss it much... unlike maybe a finger or arm.

Every other injury she's had/recovered from has been damage, sometimes severe damage, but nothing like a missing appendage. So there was some merit to her experiment.

If there was any intention to go somewhere else with the experiment (which I don't believe there is based on the prior info I spoilered/speculated on) then we'll see Claire take her experiments up a notch. But where I think she should take them is a place she'd need help with... an operation... could she have an organ removed and have a new one grow in its place? If so, she could be an organ donor factory for any well-matched recipient. And with that experiment would come another... is there a point where an organ recipient might have some level of healing powers themselves (based on the brain connection, probably not, but it's still worthy of experimentation).


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

TreborPugly said:


> So what does it say about flying boy that he keeps peeping on Claire? If you had the ability to fly, would you be peeping in windows? Doesn't that have the same standard of using binoculars to spy on neighbors? Most of us wouldn't do that because we know it's wrong - has this kid lost his moral compass?


It says he's a teenager and thinks Claire's hawt. "Moral compasses" tend to go out the window when eyeing hawt cheerleaders.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Didn't her finger get cut off in the garbage disposal last season though?

As far as not needing the pinky toe...is that really true?


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

unicorngoddess said:


> Didn't her finger get cut off in the garbage disposal last season though?


Yep

http://heroeswiki.com/Image:Powers_claire.jpg


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

ping said:


> Yep
> 
> http://heroeswiki.com/Image:Powers_claire.jpg


ew.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

ping said:


> Yep
> 
> http://heroeswiki.com/Image:Powers_claire.jpg


Well then maybe she just had selective amnesia or something after the tree branch through the brain and didn't remember her fingers growing back then.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

ping said:


> Yep
> 
> http://heroeswiki.com/Image:Powers_claire.jpg


I don't think it got cut off, it got mangled.


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

Turtleboy said:


> I don't think it got cut off, it got mangled.


It's not a great screenshot, but that index finger looks awfully short.


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Interesting that as soon as Nissan wasn't sponsoring the episode anymore, the car immediately got written out of the show. Maybe Nissan should have sponsored the whole season.


After all the discussion here I'll spoiler this, even though I don't think it qualifies:



Spoiler



From what I understand - and this was from EW or Ausiello on TV Guide or something, but I don't feel like researching it - the Rogue is going to have something of a major role throughout the season, so I don't think it's been written out of the show.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

serumgard said:


> After all the discussion here I'll spoiler this, even though I don't think it qualifies:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess I should have included a smilie. I was trying to make a joke about how big the car's role was when the episode was "presented with limited commercial interruption by Nissan" but then when it's a regular episode, we don't see the car at all.


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> I guess I should have included a smilie. I was trying to make a joke about how big the car's role was when the episode was "presented with limited commercial interruption by Nissan" but then when it's a regular episode, we don't see the car at all.


Sorry, I knew it was a joke. I just like being a know-it-all. You should know that by now.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

serumgard said:


> Sorry, I knew it was a joke. I just like being a know-it-all. You should know that by now.


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## glumlord (Oct 27, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> Have you considered writing for the Sopranos?


Ha..

My original post somehow got truncated. I love the amusing comments tho..


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

How old is Kensai when Hiro meets him?

In the Episode Godsend, when they go to the museum, it is revealed that Kensai was born in the year 1584.

When Hiro meets him, the year is 1671.

Answer?? 87

Theories:
1) The writers messed up.
2) Kensai has the ability to time travel. Maybe he is another multi-powered guy like Peter and Syler
3) His only power is the power to heal, but that keeps him perpetually young.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> How old is Kensai when Hiro meets him?
> 
> In the Episode Godsend, when they go to the museum, it is revealed that Kensai was born in the year 1584.
> 
> ...


Re: #3 - Didn't it appear that Sark appeared totally surprised at the fact that he was healing? I read his expression as him being shocked by that. If he were really 87 and still looked 30, I think he'd be well aware of that power.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Maybe the name is like the Dread Pirate Roberts that is passed down.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

I'll take what's behind door #1.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I'll take what's behind Turtleboy's door. Which is exactly what I was thinking, right down to Dread Pirate Roberts, before I got to his (second) post!


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I also agree that they need to run out of Isaac Mendez pictures. Fast. The fact that Isaac not only painted Sulu's death (along with all the others), but that Bennett owned it, was beyond lame.

Where did Bennett get it? How?

Why did he have that picture over everything else, and not a picture of claire?

lame.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> Re: #3 - Didn't it appear that Sark appeared totally surprised at the fact that he was healing? I read his expression as him being shocked by that. If he were really 87 and still looked 30, I think he'd be well aware of that power.


...unless he just got it, during the eclipse that coincided with Hiro's arrival.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but when Claude first encountered Peter, he referred to Peter as "one of those." I took this to mean that there were more out there who, like Peter, could take on other people's abilities. Not just that, but the implication was that Claude had met at least one of them. Could it be that our antagonist this year is that man (woman) who was one of the 12 Mama Petrelli and Sulu refer to? So far the individual who is trying to kill them off has shown the possibility of flight and invisibility. What do you think?


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Shaunnick said:


> Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but when Claude first encountered Peter, he referred to Peter as "one of those." I took this to mean that there were more out there who, like Peter, could take on other people's abilities. Not just that, but the implication was that Claude had met at least one of them. Could it be that our antagonist this year is that man (woman) who was one of the 12 Mama Petrelli and Sulu refer to? So far the individual who is trying to kill them off has shown the possibility of flight and invisibility. What do you think?


Interesting. NOt just invisibility, but being able to punch and super speed, super strength maybe? Teleportation to get in that locked room?


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Turtleboy said:


> Interesting. NOt just invisibility, but being able to punch and super speed, super strength maybe? Teleportation to get in that locked room?


And to be fair, I am assuming that it is the work of one individual.


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

Turtleboy said:


> How old is Kensai when Hiro meets him?
> 
> In the Episode Godsend, when they go to the museum, it is revealed that Kensai was born in the year 1584.
> 
> ...


I think the 1584 must come from having been loosely based on a non-fictional samurai known by various names, one of which is Takezo (Miyamoto Musashi). Not sure about the 1671, though. Maybe someone messed up and inverted the digits (there was an eclipse in 1671, but there was also an eclipse in 1617, which would have made a lot more sense).


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Shakhari said:


> <snip>
> I didn't realize there were people who didn't know, I didn't think it was a big deal not to spoilerize it, and I still don't. You could have simply stopped reading, you know.
> <snip>


I won't comment on the rest of your post, as you've been properly ripped into by others (and appropriately so). But this line cracked me up. "_simply stopped reading_"? How would I know when to stop? Uh wait, that's what spoiler tags do, they tell me when to stop reading. 

If I'm reading a review of a movie, and it has a blatant spoiler in it that I had no idea was there, should I have stopped reading before I got to it? How?

Where's the Haitian when I need him?


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## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

jbondsr said:


> Maybe Clare is Kensai grand kid, they never did show Father Petrelli who uses that japanese symbol for his company.





Kablemodem said:


> Since they are siblings they may each have their own power, and his may be that he negates or blocks the power of other heroes, like the Haitian blocks the powers of others.


Ok, seeing these two things together made me think...

What are the chances that Claire and West are related - maybe half brother/sister?

Claire was Nathan's love child, and there's a non-zero chance that he could have had another child with someone else - West.

Plus, is it just a coincidence that her dad has the same superpower as her new stalker schoolmate?


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Chibbie said:


> Ok, seeing these two things together made me think...
> 
> What are the chances that Claire and West are related - maybe half brother/sister?
> 
> ...


Yes, I think it is. They already messed with people's heads last year with Peter turning out to be Claire's uncle, I think this time around they will give her a love interest with who she will have this connection. Besides, aren't women attracted to men who remind them of their fathers?


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

Shaunnick said:


> Yes, I think it is. They already messed with people's heads last year with Peter turning out to be Claire's uncle, I think this time around they will give her a love interest with who she will have this connection. Besides, aren't women attracted to men who remind them of their fathers?


Attracted to, yes. Related to, not so much. Have you never heard the "you remind me of my brother" kiss of death?


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

balboa dave said:


> Attracted to, yes. Related to, not so much. Have you never heard the "you remind me of my brother" kiss of death?


Maybe I am reading your quote wrong, but I am suggesting they are not related. If she tells West "I love you like a brother," I'll be laughing so hard. The men in Claire's life don't have it easy.


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## brnscofrnld (Mar 30, 2005)

What ever happend with claire's friend that video taped her attempts last season?



Spoiler



the one that was brain washed by the hatian


spoilerized for those who might be trying to carch up with season one as well.

Not that it really matters, I was just curious what happened there.


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

He became a senator and sneaks around in public restrooms.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

brnscofrnld said:


> What ever happend with claire's friend that video taped her attempts last season?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


AFAIK, they just left him behind when they left town after S1.


Spoiler



But I wouldn't be surprised if he got another visit from the hatian


spoilerized because it relates to the above spoiler.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

allan said:


> AFAIK, they just left him behind when they left town after S1.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



Or a Terminator



Why did I spoiler that?


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

brnscofrnld said:


> What ever happend with claire's friend that video taped her attempts last season?


He stayed in Odessa, Texas, while Claire et.al. moved to California.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

brnscofrnld said:


> What ever happend with claire's friend that video taped her attempts last season?


He forgot he existed sometime around May 23, 2007.

http://www.myspace.com/zachtothefuture


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

dswallow said:


> He forgot he existed sometime around May 23, 2007.
> 
> http://www.myspace.com/zachtothefuture


...and he forgot he was gay a few months before that.


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## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

Shaunnick said:


> And to be fair, I am assuming that it is the work of one individual.


Didn't Sulu say "Ther are NINE of us left"?

And didn't Noah (HRG) say there were EIGHT paintings?
So couldn't the paintings show the deaths of the other eight? since one of them could be the killer?


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## Mike20878 (Jun 8, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Re: #3 - Didn't it appear that Sark appeared totally surprised at the fact that he was healing? I read his expression as him being shocked by that. If he were really 87 and still looked 30, I think he'd be well aware of that power.


Maybe he doesn't know he's an immortal yet.

"There can be only one!"


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Re: #3 - Didn't it appear that Sark appeared totally surprised at the fact that he was healing? I read his expression as him being shocked by that. If he were really 87 and still looked 30, I think he'd be well aware of that power.


Seemed almost like the character was acting...


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

MickeS said:


> Seemed almost like the character was acting...


And there's my LOL moment of the day.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Jericho Dog said:


> Didn't Sulu say "Ther are NINE of us left"?
> 
> And didn't Noah (HRG) say there were EIGHT paintings?
> So couldn't the paintings show the deaths of the other eight? since one of them could be the killer?


Yeah, that's what I am getting at. That one of the final nine is a multi tool, like Peter.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Shaunnick said:


> Yeah, that's what I am getting at. That one of the final nine is a multi tool, like Peter.


I got your multi-tool... RIGHT HERE!!!!!


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

zordude said:


> If your car was stolen, why would you bother mentioning that you may have left it unlocked, that information doesn't help any, only gets you in trouble.


Probably the whole "no more secrets in this family" thing.



dtle said:


> I thought I remembered this was the case. However, after not finding it anywhere on the Heroes wiki, I guess I was wrong. Must've mistaken it for some other shows.


I think it was implied but never stated. It was said that Papa Suresh found a cure, but a few months too late. Then we find that Mohinder died a few months after his sister died. Combine these and we can wonder, did he tinker with the baby's genetics to make a cure, or even arrange the pregnancy for that purpose (and if so, is that why he was never close to Mohinder and always disappointed in him), or was it just luck?



Turtleboy said:


> I also agree that they need to run out of Isaac Mendez pictures. Fast.


Isaac's paintings were a big part of season one not just in plot but also as a narrative device, establishing the comic-book feel, linking the stories of the various characters together. I felt sure they would need to replicate it in the second season, and I figured that sketchbook he gave to the bike messenger fanboy would be how, but I was hoping they would decide to use something entirely new instead. Hopefully next season they will find one.

Incidentally, *is there no thread for Kindred?* I can't find one! How can that be? I thought I remembered seeing one but even searching isn't turning it up.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Hunter Green said:


> Incidentally, *is there no thread for Kindred?* I can't find one! How can that be? I thought I remembered seeing one but even searching isn't turning it up.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=369232

You can always find the threads in Doug's index:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=199516

I think I saw somewhere that the reason people have trouble finding some threads is that the Quick Search only searches the body of the thread, not the title. You have to go to Advanced Search to search the titles.


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

I checked the index and it wasn't there either. Thanks for the link.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Hunter Green said:


> I checked the index and it wasn't there either. Thanks for the link.


Huh. 'Cause that's where I got the link..!


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