# If Tivo Didn't Exist, What Would You Use Instead? or I'm Near My Final Straw w/ Tivo, So What's Next?



## CA2DC (Dec 5, 2010)

So I've been using Tivo nonstop since 1999, so I was a relatively early adopter. I've gone through probably 6-8 boxes over that time frame, and purchased boxes for a half dozen family member at one time or another. To say I was a Tivo fanboy is putting it mildly. Heck, my friends still kid me about how much I've raved about Tivo's over the years. 

But over these last few years I've noticed a significant decrease in the usability/functionality of my Tivo (currently using an Edge). An easy example, navigation changes are abysmal, particularly when I head down a path in the settings to find something, and instead of being able to back out a level to try something else, I have to start again from scratch. My wife and I both absolutely hate the current Home screen interface. Tivo used to have insane functionality based on continual improvements and user feedback. It just seems like with the Tivo acquisition (for their IP, not the devices), things have gone downhill. 

It's at the point my wife, who's the least tech savvy person on the planet, is asking for something else. (fyi - we also have a new Apple TV, Roku, Firestick, & Chromecast, though we use Roku 90% of the time because it's universal search and user interface is superior. Tivo is used for recording sporting events, recurring series, and the Mrs's reality shows.)

Enough rambling. I'm trying to determine the best alternative to Tivo for those who've reluctantly made the switch to something else. Running a NAS or something some sort of PC based alternative isn't an option because I'm looking for plug & play, and minimal tech proficiency required for setup and use. We do have Verizon Fios, so if there's nothing noteworthy option wise, I may end up going with a Verizon DVR, though I'd hate to do it.


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## gigaquad (Oct 25, 2004)

I'd probably build a little media center with an old computer or laptop. All my movies and tv shows are stored on hard drives on my server anyway, so I'd just have to have some kind of recorder, tuners, and an interface that works with a remote. Nothing else out there is like Tivo. I know that's not what you're after, but that's what I'd choose. They have pretty easy to install/use systems now. You just set up a computer, install one program and a tv tuner (or several), then buy a remote to work with it. 
You can even use Kodi which is what I use for all my streaming anyway, so that's probably where I'd go first. I bet once you set up the remote and tuners you could teach your wife to use it very easily. 








How to use Kodi to record live TV


Kodi is a terrific piece of media software, so why not make it even more useful by adding a DVR.




www.windowscentral.com


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## reneg (Jun 19, 2002)

Even though you're looking for something that doesn't require a NAS or PC, you should really take a look at Channels DVR. They have a free trial. It's been over a year that I dumped Comcast and moved the cable channels to Fubo on Channels DVR. I still have OTA Tivos. I bought an HD Homerun and connected it to Channels DVR too and the Tivos are being used less and less. Channels DVR has the ability to aggregate multiple DVR sources into a single UI. This has really helped the spouse just watch shows like she did with Tivo. I think Channels DVR will give you the closest experience to Tivo.


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## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

CA2DC said:


> I'm a long time Tivo user (since '99) but *not too technically savvy*...
> 
> ...I know I want:
> 1 Tivo with lots of storage (prob family room)
> ...





CA2DC said:


> ...But over these last few years *I've noticed a significant decrease in the usability/functionality of my Tivo (currently using an Edge)*. An easy example, navigation changes are abysmal, particularly when I head down a path in the settings to find something, and instead of being able to back out a level to try something else, I have to start again from scratch. My wife and I both absolutely hate the current Home screen interface. Tivo used to have insane functionality based on continual improvements and user feedback. It just seems like with the Tivo acquisition (for their IP, not the devices), things have gone downhill...


IMHO, a TiVo Roamio with Lifetime, upgraded to 3TB with a new Western Digital Red Plus NAS HDD and using TE3 (TiVo Experience 3, * NOT * the TE4 on your Edge) is the way to ride TiVo out to its eventual '_sunset_'.

If you're '_not too technically savvy_', I don't see setting up separate components and getting them all working together as an '_easy / turn-key_' solution for you. Other solutions, like Channels or Plex or Emby, require a Server and individual Clients - possibly a simple task for a 'Techie' but never as simple as plugging in a TiVo Roamio, some Minis and watching your shows.

What TiVo equipment do you currently (still) own besides the Edge?


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Consider YouTube TV at $65 + Tax per month. It’s the closest thing to a cable TV subscription of all the streaming services. Over 85 channels plus local broadcast stations in most areas and an unlimited DVR The DVR interface is quirky but useable, although neither it nor any other DVR will equal the TiVo interface. Lots of VOD from the networks associated with the channels. Lack of 5.1 sound is a deficiency although hope springs eternal that it will come. You need a streaming device such as Roku, Fire stick or cube, Apple TV, etc. You also can view on a PC or iPad or IPhone. Up to three simultaneous streams per subscription.

Some TCF people have been using it. Here is a big thread on it:








Anyone tried Youtube Tv and can compare it to Tivo?


Hi, Long time Tivo owner that currently has a Tivo Bolt 4K 1Tb with lifetime service. I'm going to be done with my subscription with Xfinity in a few months and have been looking at YouTube Tv. Specifically the unlimited DVR storage for 9 months (now with fast forwarding), and their updated...




www.tivocommunity.com





I’ve been using YTTV for more than two years and am happy with it.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

We're all in on the Streaming Apps now that we got a 4k TV. The only downside is it's very difficult to track the shows you're watching and keep track of when new episodes drop. We actually use our TiVo's ToDo list and that covers some of it, but the streaming apps still don't have a good solution for that.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

CA2DC said:


> I'm trying to determine the best alternative to Tivo for those who've reluctantly made the switch to something else. Running a NAS or something some sort of PC based alternative isn't an option because I'm looking for plug & play, and minimal tech proficiency required for setup and use. We do have Verizon Fios, so if there's nothing noteworthy option wise, I may end up going with a Verizon DVR, though I'd hate to do it.





dlfl said:


> Consider YouTube TV at $65 + Tax per month. It’s the closest thing to a cable TV subscription of all the streaming services.


I would also recommend that the OP take a look at YouTube TV, which is IMO overall the best bargain going at $65/mo. However, it isn't the closest thing to a traditional cable TV experience of all the streaming services. That would be DirecTV Stream, which I would also recommend the OP take a look at.

DTV Stream now includes their unlimited cloud DVR for no additional cost (used to be an extra $10/mo). The downside is that it just stores recordings for 90 days before auto-deleting them. But its UI and feature set is more like a TiVo or traditional cable/satellite DVR than is the case with YouTube TV, which also has an unlimited DVR but retains recordings for 9 months before auto-deleting them.

One would have to compare the channel line-ups to determine which service suits them better. DTV Stream's entry-level Entertainment package costs $70/mo compared to YouTube TV at just $65. But it includes A&E, History and Lifetime, all of which YTTV lacks. YTTV, on the other hand, has some channels that DTV Stream lacks, such as NFL Network and some retro diginets like Cozi TV, Get TV, Start TV and Comet.

Another thing DTV Stream has going for it is their optional dedicated Android TV streaming box with full-function voice remote, which makes using it more like a high-quality cable TV service and not as much like a streaming service. Those boxes cost $120 each up-front, although they'll spread the cost out at $5/mo for 24 months at sign-up if you like. You buy them, not rent them. And you don't _have_ to buy them, you can use their apps for Apple TV, Roku and Fire TV at no additional cost on up to 20 devices on your home network at the same time, plus another 2 or 3 mobile devices away from home. And DTV Stream is reputed to have the best HD picture quality and widest support for DD 5.1 audio of all the streaming cable TV services too.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

bareyb said:


> We're all in on the Streaming Apps now that we got a 4k TV. The only downside is it's very difficult to track the shows you're watching and keep track of when new episodes drop. We actually use our TiVo's ToDo list and that covers some of it, but the streaming apps still don't have a good solution for that.


The Up Next queue in the Apple TV app on the Apple TV box does a good job of this. It tracks what you're watching across pretty much every on-demand app except Netflix (who won't participate in Apple's system). I've been using it for years and wouldn't give it up.









Apple TV app


The Apple TV app features Apple TV+, all your favorite streaming services, top cable TV providers, premium channels, and new Release movies.



www.apple.com


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

go back to the old UI.. if you can.. (You lose your recordings though)

While some features have declined from the peak, my Tivos definitely still do more than what they did when I bought them... (e.g. QuickMode and commercial skip weren't there.. despite the latter being less reliable, I use it when available, even manually going back to now playing to try to get it to update in the rare cases when I watch a recording right after it's done.)


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

NashGuy said:


> The Up Next queue in the Apple TV app on the Apple TV box does a good job of this. It tracks what you're watching across pretty much every on-demand app except Netflix (who won't participate in Apple's system). I've been using it for years and wouldn't give it up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not really.... It mixes up the shows you are tracking with every single show you've even _looked at_. You eventually end up with a list two miles long. If you turn OFF play history, then all it does, is take you to whatever episode you were on when you turned off Play History. In other words, if you were on S1 Ep 3 when you turned off play history, that's where you'll go every time you click on the image. Even if you are on S3 Ep 10. 

Would be much better if you could set it to ONLY track the play history on the shows you are tracking and move them to the beginning of the list when a new episode drops. Much like a DVR does.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

bareyb said:


> Not really.... It mixes up the shows you are tracking with every single show you've even _looked at_.


I don’t know if that is true? My “Up Next” doesn’t show any shows I didn’t put there, and when I finish current episodes of shows they don’t show there anymore.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

laria said:


> I don’t know if that is true? My “Up Next” doesn’t show any shows I didn’t put there, and when I finish current episodes of shows they don’t show there anymore.


No offense, but I think you are mistaken. That's not how it works. It shows every show in your "play history" unless you have "Play History" turned off in which case if basically doesn't do anything except act as a static place holder for whatever shows you put there at the time you put them there.


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## JimmyWV (Oct 1, 2011)

CA2DC said:


> So I've been using Tivo nonstop since 1999, so I was a relatively early adopter. I've gone through probably 6-8 boxes over that time frame, and purchased boxes for a half dozen family member at one time or another. To say I was a Tivo fanboy is putting it mildly. Heck, my friends still kid me about how much I've raved about Tivo's over the years.
> 
> But over these last few years I've noticed a significant decrease in the usability/functionality of my Tivo (currently using an Edge). An easy example, navigation changes are abysmal, particularly when I head down a path in the settings to find something, and instead of being able to back out a level to try something else, I have to start again from scratch. My wife and I both absolutely hate the current Home screen interface. Tivo used to have insane functionality based on continual improvements and user feedback. It just seems like with the Tivo acquisition (for their IP, not the devices), things have gone downhill.
> 
> ...


Might try Tablo. They have a ATSC 3.0, 4 tuner box coming out this spring. I bought a Tablo Dual Lite to see the UI.
Looks OK. I love the Tivo UI, but my unit, like the company, seems to dying. Replaced the HD last year. w/HD Red non shingled. My Premier keeps making noises and the tuner seems to be going. 
Commercial skip is an additional charge.
If they had just come out with a ATSC 3.0, 4 tuner, I'd have been happy.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

bareyb said:


> No offense, but I think you are mistaken. That's not how it works. It shows every show in your "play history" unless you have "Play History" turned off in which case if basically doesn't do anything except act as a static place holder for whatever shows you put there at the time you put them there.


I guess I must be misunderstanding something here, which is certainly possible.

I have Play History on, I just checked the setting.

I have, for example, The Wheel of Time in my “Up Next” list… or I did, but it disappeared after I watched all of S1. I just checked the show in the Prime app, and it still shows “In Up Next”. I assume it will show back up in S2.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

laria said:


> I guess I must be misunderstanding something here, which is certainly possible.


Yeah. That's how it works on mine too. I appreciate the help but we're talking about two different things.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

NashGuy said:


> I would also recommend that the OP take a look at YouTube TV, which is IMO overall the best bargain going at $65/mo. However, it isn't the closest thing to a traditional cable TV experience of all the streaming services. That would be DirecTV Stream, which I would also recommend the OP take a look at.
> 
> DTV Stream now includes their unlimited cloud DVR for no additional cost (used to be an extra $10/mo). The downside is that it just stores recordings for 90 days before auto-deleting them. But its UI and feature set is more like a TiVo or traditional cable/satellite DVR than is the case with YouTube TV, which also has an unlimited DVR but retains recordings for 9 months before auto-deleting them.
> 
> ...


Does DTV Stream include local broadcast stations and PBS (which YTTV does)?

Also the Fire Stick and Fire Cube provide voice control remotes that function with YTTV.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

dlfl said:


> Does DTV Stream include local broadcast stations and PBS (which YTTV does)?
> 
> Also the Fire Stick and Fire Cube provide voice control remotes that function with YTTV.


It does now. And it has voice control. I’d still have DTV stream if it weren’t insanely expensive. It’s costs the same as traditional cable/satellite, where YTTV is a lot less, and recordings are kept far longer. 

The DTV stream box is by far the closest to the traditional cable/satellite user experience, but you’ll pay dearly for it.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

bareyb said:


> Not really.... It mixes up the shows you are tracking with every single show you've even _looked at_. You eventually end up with a list two miles long. If you turn OFF play history, then all it does, is take you to whatever episode you were on when you turned off Play History. In other words, if you were on S1 Ep 3 when you turned off play history, that's where you'll go every time you click on the image. Even if you are on S3 Ep 10.
> 
> Would be much better if you could set it to ONLY track the play history on the shows you are tracking and move them to the beginning of the list when a new episode drops. Much like a DVR does.


Yes, any on-demand show you begin streaming in a supported app will automatically show up in the Up Next queue. (You can also manually add shows and movies to the queue from within the Apple TV app and from search results.) If you aren't interested in finishing that episode (or watching the next one), then you can simply remove the series from the queue manually by long-clicking on it. This keeps your queue tidy so that it doesn't got clogged up with lots of stuff you're not interested in. I never turn off Play History.

And yes, when a new episode of a show it tracks drops, it will automatically show up at the front of the queue. As time goes by and you neglect a series by not watching the next episode, it slowly drifts down the queue toward the right.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

bareyb said:


> No offense, but I think you are mistaken. That's not how it works. It shows every show in your "play history" unless you have "Play History" turned off in which case if basically doesn't do anything except act as a static place holder for whatever shows you put there at the time you put them there.


Uh, something is wrong with your Apple TV app. Because that's not how it's supposed to work. Occasionally I do still have an episode that I've finished still sitting in the Up Next queue (with a progress bar underneath showing as if it's not quite completely), in which case I long-press it and select "Mark as Watched". Then the episode clears from Up Next and appears in the Watch History row at the very bottom of the screen.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mdavej said:


> It does now. And it has voice control. I’d still have DTV stream if it weren’t insanely expensive. It’s costs the same as traditional cable/satellite, where YTTV is a lot less, and recordings are kept far longer.
> 
> The DTV stream box is by far the closest to the traditional cable/satellite user experience, but you’ll pay dearly for it.


Insanely expensive? I mean, the DTV Stream base package (Entertainment) costs $70/mo and now includes unlimited DVR at that price. YTTV is only $5/mo less. I wouldn't say that's "a lot less" -- only 7% cheaper. IMO, if you care about and watch cable TV enough to spend $65 on it, why not spend $5/mo more _if that gets you a service you prefer_. 

Now, some folks would try both and definitely prefer YTTV. So I'm not saying DTV Stream is necessarily better. I'm just saying that folks should consider both (especially if they're coming from a TiVo, because they may prefer the more traditional UI/UX of DTV Stream, especially when used with the DTV custom Android TV box and remote).

I had long anticipated that my parents might switch from DISH to DTV Stream. But after YTTV added a few channels they really like recently (Hallmark channels and GetTV), it became the better choice for them. If they went with DTV Stream, they'd either need to get the Choice package plus the Movies Extra Pack, totaling $95, or the Entertainment package plus Frndly TV, totaling $79. (Plus they'd want 2 of their boxes, costing an extra $10/mo on top of that.) But I realized it was going to be difficult enough for my dad to learn one new UI and that having his live and recorded cable TV split between two apps/systems -- DTV Stream and Frndly TV -- just wouldn't work. So they'd need to spend $105/mo on DTV Stream.

Meanwhile, they could just spend $65 on YTTV. I got them a couple of Onn UHD Android TV boxes with remotes that work well for YTTV (has channel up/down buttons and a dedicated YTTV shortcut button) for only $20 each. Dad's still not thrilled about the fact that he can't keep recordings forever but he can live with the 9 month cut-off. The 3-month time limit on DTV Stream would've been a harder sell for him (although Mom was fine with it). All that said, I do think the learning curve would have been easier on DTV Stream for them and they would probably prefer the way that system works. But not enough to justify spending 62% more ($105 vs. $65).

As their example illustrates, a lot of it comes down to which channels you really care about and therefore which package you'd want on DTV Stream (as well as whether YTTV has those channels or not -- they're still missing History, Lifetime and A&E). There are so many individual factors at play that everyone has to just figure it out for themselves. This website is useful for doing that:









Suppose... you could design your perfect TV service


Suppose lets you select your favorite TV channels, searches billions of combinations of cable, satellite and streaming TV services, and finds the best for you.




www.suppose.tv


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

If you're happy with a TiVo you have currently with FiOS and a CableCARD there's likely no reason to even worry or contemplate changes. An EDGE was I'd say a bad decision but it is what it is. How long have you had your EDGE? Is your EDGE OTA or CableCARD?

I am not familiar with recent FiOS DVR's so I can't comment but if you were in a Comcast/Xfinity market also the XG1V4 box is quite good and many I know are very happy with it. I have it and also TiVo. Were CableCARDS to go away I could do well with the XG1V4 and my other streaming options that you have. The XG1V4 is a very good 'streaming' device, I use it very little as a 'streamer' but it does well. Comcast/Xfinity has a 'SmartResume' feature that does very well for Commercial Skip also.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> Insanely expensive? I mean, the DTV Stream base package (Entertainment) costs $70/mo and now includes unlimited DVR at that price. YTTV is only $5/mo less. I wouldn't say that's "a lot less" -- only 7% cheaper. IMO, if you care about and watch cable TV enough to spend $65 on it, why not spend $5/mo more _if that gets you a service you prefer_.
> 
> Now, some folks would try both and definitely prefer YTTV. So I'm not saying DTV Stream is necessarily better. I'm just saying that folks should consider both (especially if they're coming from a TiVo, because they may prefer the more traditional UI/UX of DTV Stream, especially when used with the DTV custom Android TV box and remote).
> 
> ...


Yeah, insanely expensive with a capital "I". When I started with DTV Stream, my package was $35. Today the same package is $95. The DTV plan closest to my current YTTV plan is Choice which is $90/month, not the bare bones Entertainment package. So you're comparing apples and oranges. Also consider that DTV has shopping channels in their count where YTTV does not. So the DTV count is inflated. With my T-mobile bundle, YTTV is only $55 and has a far better DVR, profiles, works on Android, etc. That's 40% higher, which I call insane. I also think streaming TV that costs as much as cable/satellite insane because there should be a huge savings due to no cable/satellite infrastructure/equipment costs.

I couldn't care less about the A&E networks. They're all full of reality TV, and UFO crap, a shadow of their former selves.

Like I said, if DTV hadn't essentially tripled my price after promising a discount for life, I'd still have them. They lied and gouged, and they're inept to boot, so they are dead to me. No amount of convincing is going to win back this DTV Stream customer of 3 years who was the victim of the one of the biggest bait and switch schemes since my cable days. I'm glad you're happy and have the funds for overpriced TV. I don't. I barely even watch TV, and have 2 kids in college to pay for. 

Bottom line, you do you, I'll do me. I'm not spending an additional $40 per month on an inferior service that I neither want nor need, no matter how much you try to sugar coat it.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

NashGuy said:


> Yes, any on-demand show you begin streaming in a supported app will automatically show up in the Up Next queue. (You can also manually add shows and movies to the queue from within the Apple TV app and from search results.) *If you aren't interested in finishing that episode (or watching the next one), then you can simply remove the series from the queue manually by long-clicking on it.* *This keeps your queue tidy so that it doesn't got clogged up with lots of stuff you're not interested in. I never turn off Play History.*


Yeah. It's pretty useless with"Play History"off so I turned it back on after our discussion yesterday. I guess I'm just going to have to tidy up the UP NEXT list periodically. It's not ideal, but it's the best thing going right now. Appreciate the help.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

NashGuy said:


> Insanely expensive? I mean, the DTV Stream base package (Entertainment) costs $70/mo and now includes unlimited DVR at that price. YTTV is only $5/mo less. I wouldn't say that's "a lot less" -- only 7% cheaper. IMO, if you care about and watch cable TV enough to spend $65 on it, why not spend $5/mo more _if that gets you a service you prefer_.
> 
> Now, some folks would try both and definitely prefer YTTV. So I'm not saying DTV Stream is necessarily better. I'm just saying that folks should consider both (especially if they're coming from a TiVo, because they may prefer the more traditional UI/UX of DTV Stream, especially when used with the DTV custom Android TV box and remote).
> 
> ...


That "Suppose TV" thing is pretty cool. I went on that site and it looks like HULU LIVE or DTV Stream is our best bet. We already have Hulu Premium (not live) so I'm fairly familiar with that. Does the DTV Stream require a Dish and their own STB or is it simply an App I can use on my Apple TV?


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

CA2DC said:


> So I've been using Tivo nonstop since 1999, so I was a relatively early adopter. I've gone through probably 6-8 boxes over that time frame, and purchased boxes for a half dozen family member at one time or another. To say I was a Tivo fanboy is putting it mildly. Heck, my friends still kid me about how much I've raved about Tivo's over the years.
> 
> But over these last few years I've noticed a significant decrease in the usability/functionality of my Tivo (currently using an Edge). An easy example, navigation changes are abysmal, particularly when I head down a path in the settings to find something, and instead of being able to back out a level to try something else, I have to start again from scratch. My wife and I both absolutely hate the current Home screen interface. Tivo used to have insane functionality based on continual improvements and user feedback. It just seems like with the Tivo acquisition (for their IP, not the devices), things have gone downhill.
> 
> ...


ClearToLand had the best answer so far. If you want something a little faster than the Roameo, then a Bolt running TE3 with no more than a 2TB drive. The 3TB drives are failure prone. Even better upgrade to an external 3.5 inch drive from Weaknees or a do it yourself external upgrade as discussed in several threads previously.

It appears that your main problem is with TE4, which is all the Edge will run. Personally I won't move to TE4 or an Edge until I have absolutely no other choice.


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## timbracken (Sep 16, 2016)

bobfrank said:


> a Bolt running TE3 with no more than a 2TB drive. The 3TB drives are failure prone. Even better upgrade to an external 3.5 inch drive from Weaknees or a do it yourself external upgrade as discussed in several threads previously.


My 3TB Bolt+ died a few months ago (failed harddrive yet again on that unit) and I got the Edge. I use the 1st gen mini in my other room. Based on your comment I’m wondering if I can revive my Bolt+ by hooking up an external harddrive to it and use it in place of the mini? I deactivated my service though on the Bolt+ and bought Lifetime with the Edge. Just curious what my options are with the Bolt (if any). Thanks for any input.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

@NashGuy 
So does the $70 DTV Stream package include local broadcast stations and PBS or not? Or is @mdavej ‘s statement of much higher cost true when you pay to include those?

And BTW is there any way to get DTV Stream to stop bombarding me with scam calls (each from a different phone # and thus not blockable)?


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

For a sports fan... me... fuboTV is what I would have to go with. Seems my only choice for my local RSN's. Only 250 hours of DVR storage but they remain until you delete.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

dlfl said:


> @NashGuy
> So does the $70 DTV Stream package include local broadcast stations and PBS or not? Or is @mdavej ‘s statement of much higher cost true when you pay to include those?
> 
> And BTW is there any way to get DTV Stream to stop bombarding me with scam calls (each from a different phone # and thus not blockable)?


The cheap DTV package does include locals and PBS. But if that’s all you need, they’re free with an antenna.


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

mdavej said:


> The cheap DTV package does include locals and PBS. But if that’s all you need, they’re free with an antenna.


But an 'antenna' isn't necessarily an 'easy' or 'inexpensive' option for many!!! LOCATION is 'everything' !


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mdavej said:


> Yeah, insanely expensive with a capital "I". When I started with DTV Stream, my package was $35. Today the same package is $95. The DTV plan closest to my current YTTV plan is Choice which is $90/month, not the bare bones Entertainment package.


Sorry, no. You already lost me. The Choice plan on DTV Stream includes RSNs, which are completely lacking from YTTV. RSNs are pretty expensive channels and account for the majority of difference in cost between Entertainment ($70) and Choice ($90).

As I said above, YTTV is the overall best value for most people, given the lineup of channels they offer at $65. But if you think that's a reasonable price, it's silly to say that DTV Stream is "insanely expensive" when it only costs $5/mo more. As I've already pointed out, both DTV Stream Entertainment and YTTV contain certain channels that the other lacks. Which is the better value for any particular person will come down to which channels they care about, as well as other subjective factors.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

dlfl said:


> @NashGuy
> So does the $70 DTV Stream package include local broadcast stations and PBS or not? Or is @mdavej ‘s statement of much higher cost true when you pay to include those?
> 
> And BTW is there any way to get DTV Stream to stop bombarding me with scam calls (each from a different phone # and thus not blockable)?


Yup. DTV Stream began adding PBS locals late last year and will continue to get the remaining ones online throughout this quarter. Coverage of local stations is pretty similar between DTV Stream and YTTV. I think both are missing some CW and My Network TV locals in various markets but have very good coverage for ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox locals.

Both services now include unlimited cloud DVR storage, although YTTV retains your recordings for 9 months while DTV Stream does so only for 90 days. But the DVR on DVR Stream works more like a traditional one while YTTV commingles recordings with VOD versions and unfortunately doesn't reliably allow you to sort all of your recordings based on most recently recorded. (It's supposed to do this but in my experience it often doesn't work.) So finding your recordings in the YTTV UI is more of a chore. You may not realize when a new episode of a show you follow has become available.

For a lot of folks, as I say, the choice will come down to which channels you care about. If you value A&E, Lifetime, History and/or Vice, those are all on DTV Stream Entertainment package but completely missing from YTTV. There are a few other small channels too, like C-SPAN and RFD-TV. On the other hand, YTTV has NFL Network and various "rerun"/retro TV channels (e.g. Get TV, Start TV, etc.) that are completely lacking from DTV Stream. And YTTV also includes some sports channels that you need a more expensive DTV Stream package to get, such as MLB TV, NBA, Golf, FS2, and Olympic Channel. Some sports fan may find Fubo TV (which also starts at $65) to be best for them, although that service completely lacks the Turner nets like TBS, TNT and CNN, making it a no-go for lots of people. 

No idea about stopping the calls you're getting. Google Assistant on my Pixel does a pretty good job of blocking robocalls. Maybe see if your phone service offers spam blocking.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

markjrenna said:


> For a sports fan... me... fuboTV is what I would have to go with. Seems my only choice for my local RSN's. Only 250 hours of DVR storage but they remain until you delete.


Yeah, in a few select areas FuboTV includes the local RSN. But be aware that in those areas, the RSN isn't optional and they charge an additional RSN fee on top of the base $65/mo price. Also, FuboTV doesn't include CNN, TBS or TNT, which is a deal-killer for a lot of folks.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> Sorry, no. You already lost me. The Choice plan on DTV Stream includes RSNs, which are completely lacking from YTTV. RSNs are pretty expensive channels and account for the majority of difference in cost between Entertainment ($70) and Choice ($90).
> 
> As I said above, YTTV is the overall best value for most people, given the lineup of channels they offer at $65. But if you think that's a reasonable price, it's silly to say that DTV Stream is "insanely expensive" when it only costs $5/mo more. As I've already pointed out, both DTV Stream Entertainment and YTTV contain certain channels that the other lacks. Which is the better value for any particular person will come down to which channels they care about, as well as other subjective factors.


Entertainment isn't even close and does not belong in the comparison at all. YTTV has at least 11 more National sports channels than Entertainment. Those are probably pretty darn expensive too. Still apples and oranges. I may as well declare that Philo trumps everybody at $20.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

I haven’t tried DTV Stream but I have to agree the DVR UI for YTTV is poor when it comes to organizing recordings and episodes. Based on the YTTV subreddit there are a lot of users who aren’t bothered by this at all. They say just search for what you want. That doesn’t satisfy me since Fire app text entry is via the tedious on-screen widget. I shy away from recording a lot of stuff just because it’s so tedious to keep track of it in the UI.

For the OP, it’s worth mentioning suppose.tv which is a web site designed to help you decide which streaming service(s) provide(s) the best way to get what you want for the least cost.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

mdavej said:


> Entertainment isn't even close and does not belong in the comparison at all. YTTV has at least 11 more National sports channels than Entertainment. Those are probably pretty darn expensive too. Still apples and oranges. I may as well declare the Philo trumps everybody at $20.


I agree, if sports are important then Entertainment is not a good choice. Essentially it only has ESPNs and FS1. But D*Stream has DD5.1 audio on almost all channels and the best PQ of all the live streamers. The app UI is the closest to a cable/sat box than any other.


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

timbracken said:


> My 3TB Bolt+ died a few months ago (failed harddrive yet again on that unit) and I got the Edge. I use the 1st gen mini in my other room. Based on your comment I’m wondering if I can revive my Bolt+ by hooking up an external harddrive to it and use it in place of the mini? I deactivated my service though on the Bolt+ and bought Lifetime with the Edge. Just curious what my options are with the Bolt (if any). Thanks for any input.


You could go the inexpensive route by replacing the 3TB in your Bolt with a new 2TB. The 3TB 2.5 inch drives have proven very unreliable. There are several threads with 2TB replacement drive recommendations. A more expensive solution if you really want a 3TB drive is to install an external 3TB 3.5 inch drive. Weaknees has a package with the drive, enclosure power supply cables, replacement portion of the case with a pre cut hole for the cable for $250. Great video instructions as well. You can roll you own as well. Probably less expensive, but more trouble to get the right hard drive, case and cables. There are several threads here discussion that option as well.

I when with the Weaknees solution just because it was easier for me. I've got more money than time right now.

If you had lifetime on your Bolt, that should still be intact. If you were on an annual plan you'll have to sign back for another one. You will be able to use TE3 or TE4 on your old Bolt after the modifications.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

lparsons21 said:


> I agree, if sports are important then Entertainment is not a good choice. Essentially it only has ESPNs and FS1. But D*Stream has DD5.1 audio on almost all channels and the best PQ of all the live streamers. The app UI is the closest to a cable/sat box than any other.


Yep, I certainly miss the 5.1. PQ is stellar, and the cable box experience is spot on use the DTV Stream box.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

dlfl said:


> I haven’t tried DTV Stream but I have to agree the DVR UI for YTTV is poor when it comes to organizing recordings and episodes. Based on the YTTV subreddit there are a lot of users who aren’t bothered by this at all. They say just search for what you want. That doesn’t satisfy me since Fire app text entry is via the tedious on-screen widget. I shy away from recording a lot of stuff just because it’s so tedious to keep track of it in the UI.
> 
> For the OP, it’s worth mentioning suppose.tv which is a web site designed to help you decide which streaming service(s) provide(s) the best way to get what you want for the least cost.


I guess I'm in the "not bothered" group. Everything I record is extremely well organized, by season and episode in order. Watched episodes get marked as watched as they should. If I want to manually mark any, I can do it en masse via the web site. I have no problem at all keeping track. But I can see how a list view would be handy if you have a really huge number of titles.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

mdavej said:


> I guess I'm in the "not bothered" group. Everything I record is extremely well organized, by season and episode in order. Watched episodes get marked as watched as they should. If I want to manually mark any, I can do it en masse via the web site. I have no problem at all keeping track. But I can see how a list view would be handy if you have a really huge number of titles.


I’m in the ‘ought to like it, but don’t’ group. YTTV is a veritable bargain for what you get at the $65 price point. But that DVR UI section just turns me off, just a royal PITA to manage since the never designed it to be managed.
Were I to cancel my DirecTV Stream, I would probably go to it, but still wouldn’t like it. Sling’s UI is much easier to deal with but is more expensive if you want a channel lineup that’s real close to YTTV’s. 
Currently with D*Stream Ultimate which has all the channels I want, but at a hefty premium.


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## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

bobfrank said:


> *@ClearToLand had the best answer so far. If you want something a little faster than the Roameo, then a Bolt running TE3 with no more than a 2TB drive. The 3TB drives are failure prone.* Even better upgrade to an external 3.5 inch drive from Weaknees or a do it yourself external upgrade as discussed in several threads previously.
> 
> It appears that your main problem is with TE4, which is all the Edge will run. *Personally I won't move to TE4 or an Edge until I have absolutely no other choice.*





timbracken said:


> *My 3TB Bolt+ died* a few months ago (failed harddrive yet again on that unit) and *I got the Edge*. I use the 1st gen mini in my other room. Based on your comment I’m wondering if I can revive my Bolt+ by hooking up an external harddrive to it and use it in place of the mini? I deactivated my service though on the Bolt+ and *bought Lifetime with the Edge*. Just curious what my options are with the Bolt (if any). Thanks for any input.





bobfrank said:


> You could go the inexpensive route by replacing the 3TB in your Bolt with a new 2TB. *The 3TB 2.5 inch drives have proven very unreliable.* There are several threads with 2TB replacement drive recommendations. A more expensive solution if you really want a 3TB drive is to install an external 3TB 3.5 inch drive. Weaknees has a package with the drive, enclosure power supply cables, replacement portion of the case with a pre cut hole for the cable for $250. Great video instructions as well. You can roll you own as well. Probably less expensive, but more trouble to get the right hard drive, case and cables. There are several threads here discussion that option as well.
> 
> I when with the Weaknees solution just because it was easier for me. I've got more money than time right now.
> 
> *If you had lifetime on your Bolt, that should still be intact.* If you were on an annual plan you'll have to sign back for another one. You will be able to use TE3 or TE4 on your old Bolt after the modifications.


Everyone on the internet has an opinion - here are mine:

TiVo, the company, is merely a shadow of what it was in 2000 and is slowly '_fading into the sunset_'. 
A Bolt Series 6 TiVo Unit * WITH * a bad HDD * WITHOUT * Lifetime is (basically) worthless. 
The Roamio Series 5 TiVo Units were the * BEST * TiVo Units built-to-date. 
If you need 4K, or '_Streaming_' capability, buy a separate device (i.e. Nvidia Shield, Amazon Fire Stick 4K, ChromeCast with Google TV, TiVo Stream 4K, etc...) 
If you're '_Technically-Capable_' (i.e. MOST '_Technically-Capable_' folks don't need to ask '_Basic Technical_' Questions), you can add an EXTERNAL 3½" HDD to a TiVo Bolt * BUT *, IMHO, you'd probably do better buying a Series 5 Roamio with Lifetime on eBay, installing a NEW 3TB Western Digital Red Plus NAS HDD into that and running TE3.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

mdavej said:


> I guess I'm in the "not bothered" group. Everything I record is extremely well organized, by season and episode in order. Watched episodes get marked as watched as they should. If I want to manually mark any, I can do it en masse via the web site. I have no problem at all keeping track. But I can see how a list view would be handy if you have a really huge number of titles.


Not worth quibbling about — each to his own taste. But I defy anyone to tell me exactly what the logic is that determines what appears in “NEW IN YOUR LIBRARY” (in the Fire app for YTTV). More times than not, recordings I know are new recordings of new episodes, recorded just one day ago, are NOT there and I have to go hunting through SHOWS to find them. And having to go to a website to mark things as watched is a poor UI. Then there are the release dates for TCM movies that are decades off for about half of them, requiring going to IMDB to get the correct year, in spite of numerous complaints for years ongoing.

Maybe I’ll try DTV Stream just to experience the better UI. The cheapest package costs only $5 more. It has 20 fewer channels, but I don’t think any of those 20 channels matter much to me anyway.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

dlfl said:


> Not worth quibbling about — each to his own taste. But I defy anyone to tell me exactly what the logic is that determines what appears in “NEW IN YOUR LIBRARY” (in the Fire app for YTTV). More times than not, recordings I know are new recordings of new episodes, recorded just one day ago, are NOT there and I have to go hunting through SHOWS to find them. And having to go to a website to mark things as watched is a poor UI. Then there are the release dates for TCM movies that are decades off for about half of them, requiring going to IMDB to get the correct year, in spite of numerous complaints for years ongoing.
> 
> Maybe I’ll try DTV Stream just to experience the better UI. The cheapest package costs only $5 more. It has 20 fewer channels, but I don’t think any of those 20 channels matter much to me anyway.


You got me there. In fact, it's such a mystery to me that I never use that view. I go straight to "Most Watched" most of the time.

As for the DTV Stream better UI, it's not really the UI that makes it better. I think their UI is pretty terrible too. You have to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out how to cancel a series recording, for example. What makes it cable-like is their dedicated box and full function remote with numbers, channel up/down, one-touch record, etc., all the stuff missing from the typical streamer remote. I'll also say their guide is better in that it has a lot more show info on it and goes a lot longer. But they don't have profiles or custom filters, so that's a drawback.

If you want the real experience, you have to get one of their boxes. If you get a box directly from them, then you're stuck in a contract. You can take a chance with the 14-day free trial, but make sure you cancel in that time to avoid quite hefty cancellation fees. I highly recommend you get a box from ebay, then resell if/when you cancel. I used to have several boxes that I got for free for various beta tests. I would offer you one if I had any left. 

The recent addition of PBS does make DTV much more attractive. But in my case, I'd be paying $15 more per month for less content and also lose my much loved profiles and custom channel lists. As soon as a certain family member moves out, I plan to switch to Philo and OTA anyway. In any case, best of luck to you. If you find the holy grail of Tivo replacements, please let us know.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

To cancel a series recording is now easier in some cases. Select the recording and on many it will have a button to cancel series recordings. But it isn’t consistent, some have it, some don’t and I couldn’t figure out why that is.
But the original way that took some sleuthing isn’t a big deal, find out how once and you’re good to go.
And yeah, the box makes a huge difference.


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

*IF TiVo didn't exist?*

But TiVo does exist!!! So ...............................


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mdavej said:


> As for the DTV Stream better UI, it's not really the UI that makes it better. I think their UI is pretty terrible too. You have to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out how to cancel a series recording, for example. What makes it cable-like is their dedicated box and full function remote with numbers, channel up/down, one-touch record, etc., all the stuff missing from the typical streamer remote.


Yes, the full-featured custom remote with the DTV Stream custom box is a huge differentiator for that service. And whatever its flaws, the DTV Stream UI is definitely more traditional cable-like than YouTube TV's or Hulu Live's.

FYI, for anyone interested in YouTube TV, the remotes for _some_ devices do have channel up/down buttons that let you channel surf inside YouTube TV. That's true of the device I set my parents up with on both their TVs, the Onn UHD Android TV box from Walmart. It's only $20 and works quite well. I've tried both it and the $50 Chromecast with Google TV and definitely prefer to the Onn box, not only for its better remote but also slight differences in its home screen UI. I've read that the channel up/down buttons on some smart TV remotes also work inside the YouTube TV app on those TVs.



mdavej said:


> If you get a box directly from them, then you're stuck in a contract. You can take a chance with the 14-day free trial, but make sure you cancel in that time to avoid quite hefty cancellation fees. I highly recommend you get a box from ebay, then resell if/when you cancel. I used to have several boxes that I got for free for various beta tests. I would offer you one if I had any left.


False. DTV Stream hasn't offered new customers a contract option since last spring. The service is month-to-month, contract-free for all new customers, regardless of whether you buy their box or not. If you do buy their box, you can either pay the $120 cost up-front or they'll spread it out at $5/mo over 24 months. But if you cancel service before the 24 months are up, they'll simply bill you for the balance due on the box you bought at sign-up. They don't rent those boxes at all, only sell them.

Users generally report that using the DTV Stream custom box works very well with their own service. Since it runs Android TV, it also has access to tons of apps from the Google Play app store. Folks generally say that it works decently with those apps -- a tad sluggish to launch or switch between apps, and there are occasional app crashes, but it's generally fine (though probably not as good overall as most recent model Roku, Fire TV or Apple TV devices). Note that their box does not (yet) support the Apple TV app, although it does support all the other major ones (Netflix, Hulu, Prime Video, Disney+, HBO Max, etc.). So you'll have to switch inputs to get your Ted Lasso fix.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> False. DTV Stream hasn't offered new customers a contract option since last spring. The service is month-to-month, contract-free for all new customers, regardless of whether you buy their box or not. If you do buy their box, you can either pay the $120 cost up-front or they'll spread it out at $5/mo over 24 months. But if you cancel service before the 24 months are up, they'll simply bill you for the balance due on the box you bought at sign-up. They don't rent those boxes at all, only sell them.


False. You have a very interesting definition of contract. When you have to pay the remainder of the 24-months for the box (which you do with DirecTV Stream when you choose to pay for the box monthly), that's a contract. When you can return the box if you cancel and have no balance due, like with the cable company, that's NOT a contract. 








Sign up for DIRECTV STREAM | DIRECTV STREAM Customer Service & Support


Choose the DIRECTV STREAM option that suits you best. Learn how to get an account, select a package, and start watching.



www.directv.com





So when you're in front of the judge explaining why you didn't pay your balance due for the box because you had no contract, let me know how that goes.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

dlfl said:


> Not worth quibbling about — each to his own taste. But I defy anyone to tell me exactly what the logic is that determines what appears in “NEW IN YOUR LIBRARY” (in the Fire app for YTTV). More times than not, recordings I know are new recordings of new episodes, recorded just one day ago, are NOT there and I have to go hunting through SHOWS to find them. And having to go to a website to mark things as watched is a poor UI. Then there are the release dates for TCM movies that are decades off for about half of them, requiring going to IMDB to get the correct year, in spite of numerous complaints for years ongoing.


Yes, in my so-far limited experience with YTTV, I found "New in Your Library" to be very unreliable. And even worse, when going to "Shows" and sorting by Most Recent, it often did NOT put the most recently recorded series at the top of the list. Maybe something that had recorded an episode earlier today would be placed down the list among shows that had recorded a day or two ago.

I ended up just sorting "Shows" in alpha order. And telling my parents to go to "Most Watched" every evening to find recordings of the local and national newscast they watch every day. Those seemed to consistently surface in the short list of titles in "Most Watched". And then beyond that, they'd just need to wade through the lost list of titles in "Shows" in alpha order to pick out something to watch. Of course, there's no visual indicator looking through that list of which ones recorded a new episode recently. They just kind of have to mentally keep track of which shows they're currently watching and know what day of the week they air. 

It's a pretty poor UI, to be honest. Google could have followed a simple set of rules consistently but instead they want to employ their own algorithms that they think are super helpful in suggesting stuff for you to watch. Grrr. But hey, they're spending $65/mo for YTTV instead of $120/mo for DISH and getting pretty much all the same channels they care about, so they're learning to live with its quirks.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mdavej said:


> False. You have a very interesting definition of contract. When you have to pay the remainder of the 24-months for the box (which you do with DirecTV Stream when you choose to pay for the box monthly), that's a contract. When you can return the box if you cancel and have no balance due, like with the cable company, that's NOT a contract.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL, you're a self-parody, dude. There's no contract for the service itself. And they make clear at sign-up that you're purchasing the box, with the option to pay up-front or spread out the cost. The reason you return the box and have no balance due on traditional cable/satellite services is because you're RENTING the box, not buying it.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> LOL, you're a self-parody, dude. There's no contract for the service itself. And they make clear at sign-up that you're purchasing the box, with the option to pay up-front or spread out the cost. The reason you return the box and have no balance due on traditional cable/satellite services is because you're RENTING the box, not buying it.


A "24 MONTH AGREEMENT" is a f***ing CONTRACT!


> DIRECTV STREAM offers packages with no annual contract. Or, choose an DIRECTV STREAM device included at no additional charge with a* 24-month agreement*. It’s your choice!











Definition of CONTRACT


a binding agreement between two or more persons or parties; especially : one legally enforceable; a business arrangement for the supply of goods or services at a fixed price; the act of marriage or an agreement to marry… See the full definition




www.merriam-webster.com


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mdavej said:


> So when you're in front of the judge explaining why you didn't pay your balance due for the box because you had no contract, let me know how that goes.


That would be no different than refusing to pay your credit card bill for items you had purchased on it. Of course you have to pay off things you buy on credit. Except in the case of the DTV Stream box, the credit they're extending is zero-interest.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mdavej said:


> A "24 MONTH AGREEMENT" is a f***ing CONTRACT!


It's an agreement to pay off the cost of the box over 24 months. It's not a contract for the service itself, which you can cancel at any time and pay the balance due on the box, as I've explained over and over. When someone uses the term "contract" in association with a pay TV service, everyone understands that term to mean a contract to keep the service itself and then pay an early termination fee based on the number of months left on your contract if you cancel early. That's the way it works with DTV satellite and DISH. That's also how it used to work with AT&T TV (the previously brand name for DTV Stream) back when they offered a 2-year contract option. THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS ON DTV STREAM NOW IF YOUR CHOOSE TO PURCHASE THEIR BOX.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> It's an agreement to pay off the cost of the box over 24 months. It's not a contract for the service itself, which you can cancel at any time and pay the balance due on the box, as I've explained over and over. When someone uses the term "contract" in association with a pay TV service, everyone understands that term to mean a contract to keep the service itself and then pay an early termination fee based on the number of months left on your contract if you cancel early. That's the way it works with DTV satellite and DISH. That's also how it used to work with AT&T TV (the previously brand name for DTV Stream) back when they offered a 2-year contract option. THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS ON DTV STREAM NOW IF YOUR CHOOSE TO PURCHASE THEIR BOX.


I know very well how DTV Stream works and how cable/satellite works. I am an earthling with decades of life experience, a former DTV subscriber, DTV Stream subscriber, Dish subscriber, cable subscriber, etc, etc, etc. If you get their box from them and don't pay up front, you are in a binding legal agreement (aka *contract*) to pay the balance due on the box. Period. That's a contract.

The OP wanted to try the box. He has 3 options:

Buy the box from DTV (up front or in 24 installments via an agreement (contract) to pay the balance due at the termination of service)
Buy the box from a 3rd party
Return before the end of the 14 day trial period


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

mdavej said:


> I know very well how DTV Stream works and how cable/satellite works. I am an earthling with decades of life experience, a former DTV subscriber, DTV Stream subscriber, Dish subscriber, cable subscriber, etc, etc, etc. If you get their box from them and don't pay up front, you are in a binding legal agreement (aka *contract*) to pay the balance due on the box. Period. That's a contract.
> 
> The OP wanted to try the box. He has 3 options:
> 
> ...


Yep that’s how it works, just like the cell phone deals on the phones. Ie, a contract for the ‘box’ but not the plan.

IMO, the box is very nice but not worth $120. EBay usually has plenty on sale from $40 to $60.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

Well, as much as I like DirecTV Stream, I refuse to pay a $10/month penalty to stay with them. And as much as I despise YTTV’s UI, I signed up with them. Saving about $50/monthl doing it.

Lose RSNs, but I’ve never watched any.
Lose 5.1 audio.
PQ to my eyes is close enough.

Gain NFL channel
Gain longer retention of recordings.

I’m using a Chromecast w/Google TV with it and that makes YTTV more tolerable


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## CA2DC (Dec 5, 2010)

ClearToLand said:


> IMHO, a TiVo Roamio with Lifetime, upgraded to 3TB with a new Western Digital Red Plus NAS HDD and using TE3 (TiVo Experience 3, * NOT * the TE4 on your Edge) is the way to ride TiVo out to its eventual '_sunset_'.
> 
> If you're '_not too technically savvy_', I don't see setting up separate components and getting them all working together as an '_easy / turn-key_' solution for you. Other solutions, like Channels or Plex or Emby, require a Server and individual Clients - possibly a simple task for a 'Techie' but never as simple as plugging in a TiVo Roamio, some Minis and watching your shows.
> 
> What TiVo equipment do you currently (still) own besides the Edge?


Actually, even though we have 5 TVs, we're only using the Edge on the family room set. Own a Mini but could never get it working, and even then with two kids who don't even know what network TV is (all they watch is Netflix, Amazon, YouTube, Hulu, Disney+, etc.), the single Tivo has been fine. But I absolutely hate the current interface which I see as a slap in the face to the loyal Tivo user base which collaboratively worked with the Tivo team on enhancements for a 15+ years. Storage wise, that's not a problem. I have the largest Edge storage they sold at the time I bought it, and never come close to running out of space because we don't watch shows more than once and then delete. Plus, aside from sports (and stuff like Ozark), most good TV isn't being created by the major networks.


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## CA2DC (Dec 5, 2010)

dlfl said:


> Consider YouTube TV at $65 + Tax per month. It’s the closest thing to a cable TV subscription of all the streaming services. Over 85 channels plus local broadcast stations in most areas and an unlimited DVR The DVR interface is quirky but useable, although neither it nor any other DVR will equal the TiVo interface. Lots of VOD from the networks associated with the channels. Lack of 5.1 sound is a deficiency although hope springs eternal that it will come. You need a streaming device such as Roku, Fire stick or cube, Apple TV, etc. You also can view on a PC or iPad or IPhone. Up to three simultaneous streams per subscription.
> 
> Some TCF people have been using it. Here is a big thread on it:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply. I have a hunch something like YTTV or Sling is where I'm headed. Lack of 5.1 is definitely a minus. I've got all of the major streaming devices and think Roku comes the closest to Tivo from a user interface perspective. Now if Roku offered channel packages with a DVR.... that would be something!


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## CA2DC (Dec 5, 2010)

bareyb said:


> We're all in on the Streaming Apps now that we got a 4k TV. The only downside is it's very difficult to track the shows you're watching and keep track of when new episodes drop. We actually use our TiVo's ToDo list and that covers some of it, but the streaming apps still don't have a good solution for that.


I've found that most of the streaming apps will notify me when new seasons of my favorite shows drop. Usually but not always. The exception being an app I only watch for one show (Paramount+/Star Trek) because they can't notify me if I'm not on the app. But I think that's where it's going. I even subscribe to NBA and MLB games through their apps, which I think gets me to 8 or so streaming apps.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

CA2DC said:


> I've found that most of the streaming apps will notify me when new seasons of my favorite shows drop. Usually but not always. The exception being an app I only watch for one show (Paramount+/Star Trek) because they can't notify me if I'm not on the app. But I think that's where it's going. I even subscribe to NBA and MLB games through their apps, which I think gets me to 8 or so streaming apps.


The AppleTV does a very good but not perfect job of tracking shows and the app they go with. Chromecast w/GoogleTV does it well also but not quite as well as the AppleTV.


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## CA2DC (Dec 5, 2010)

NashGuy said:


> I would also recommend that the OP take a look at YouTube TV, which is IMO overall the best bargain going at $65/mo. However, it isn't the closest thing to a traditional cable TV experience of all the streaming services. That would be DirecTV Stream, which I would also recommend the OP take a look at.
> 
> DTV Stream now includes their unlimited cloud DVR for no additional cost (used to be an extra $10/mo). The downside is that it just stores recordings for 90 days before auto-deleting them. But its UI and feature set is more like a TiVo or traditional cable/satellite DVR than is the case with YouTube TV, which also has an unlimited DVR but retains recordings for 9 months before auto-deleting them.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I'll definitely look at YTTV and DTV Stream. We're already firmly entrenched in the AT&T multiverse with our cellular, so maybe they offer packages. Besides sports which is my primary requirement (and optimally decent video/sound qualify), my wife LOVES the Housewives shows. Her one guilty pleasure which drives me nuts. BUT, whatever I end up going with MUST have whatever channel those damn shows are on.


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## CA2DC (Dec 5, 2010)

NashGuy said:


> The Up Next queue in the Apple TV app on the Apple TV box does a good job of this. It tracks what you're watching across pretty much every on-demand app except Netflix (who won't participate in Apple's system). I've been using it for years and wouldn't give it up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's funny that you mention Apple TV because my buddy who's an Apple fanboy as well as an corp employee just bought me the newest Apple TV as a gift in Dec, in an attempt to get me and the Mrs to switch from Roku. We used it for a week and then went back to Roku. We actually use the Apple TV app on Roku instead of the actual streaming device because Apple's remote and user interface isn't that great or intuitive. I also hate that Apple is constantly suggesting shows that once I click on I discover I have to pay extra for. The picture quality and sound is outstanding though. (Love Ted Lasso).


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## CA2DC (Dec 5, 2010)

mattack said:


> go back to the old UI.. if you can.. (You lose your recordings though)
> 
> While some features have declined from the peak, my Tivos definitely still do more than what they did when I bought them... (e.g. QuickMode and commercial skip weren't there.. despite the latter being less reliable, I use it when available, even manually going back to now playing to try to get it to update in the rare cases when I watch a recording right after it's done.)


Good point that QuickMode and commercial skip aren't in the older versions, but after 23 years of Tivo I've got to the point where I've mastered the >>> commercial skip with a perfect landing, so I don't mind it so much. 

As for going back to the old UI, I didn't know that was an option. (Assuming it's a simple process and not for the tech savvy.)


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## CA2DC (Dec 5, 2010)

WVZR1 said:


> If you're happy with a TiVo you have currently with FiOS and a CableCARD there's likely no reason to even worry or contemplate changes. An EDGE was I'd say a bad decision but it is what it is. How long have you had your EDGE? Is your EDGE OTA or CableCARD?
> 
> I am not familiar with recent FiOS DVR's so I can't comment but if you were in a Comcast/Xfinity market also the XG1V4 box is quite good and many I know are very happy with it. I have it and also TiVo. Were CableCARDS to go away I could do well with the XG1V4 and my other streaming options that you have. The XG1V4 is a very good 'streaming' device, I use it very little as a 'streamer' but it does well. Comcast/Xfinity has a 'SmartResume' feature that does very well for Commercial Skip also.


IF I were happy with my Edge with CableCARD and the newer Tivo UI, I wouldn't be contemplating a change and wouldn't have posted.  Problem is that we hate the new UI and my Edge isn't nearly as reliable as my previous boxes. Still works, but needs a reset every couple months. We've got Fios and I don't know much about their DVR. If it's as good as you're saying Comcast's is, maybe that's the Easy Button for my situation. But after 22+ years I'll be sad to leave Tivo.

My wish is that someone with more money than he knows what to do with, buys the Tivo hardware business away from the IP company (Xperi) that purchased Tivo a few years ago. Xperi doesn't give a rats about the hardware, because the value is in the IP which every DVR manufacturer has to license. So they will milk what's left of the cash stream, before finally burying the box.


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## CA2DC (Dec 5, 2010)

bobfrank said:


> ClearToLand had the best answer so far. If you want something a little faster than the Roameo, then a Bolt running TE3 with no more than a 2TB drive. The 3TB drives are failure prone. Even better upgrade to an external 3.5 inch drive from Weaknees or a do it yourself external upgrade as discussed in several threads previously.
> 
> It appears that your main problem is with TE4, which is all the Edge will run. Personally I won't move to TE4 or an Edge until I have absolutely no other choice.


Yeah, TE4 sucks balls. But didn't think for a min that Tivo would put out a crappy UI after 15+ years of excellence with continual improvements. I guess an option is to pick up a Bolt on Ebay or somewhere similar.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Used lifetime Roamio Plus is the best option, not the less reliable Bolt.

So what happened to DD 5.1 on YTTV? That was a feature they were going to add, right?


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

slowbiscuit said:


> Used lifetime Roamio Plus is the best option, not the less reliable Bolt.
> 
> So what happened to DD 5.1 on YTTV? That was a feature they were going to add, right?


DD5.1 on YTTV seems to be not getting any work. Still only available on a handful of TVs and not on any streaming boxes. IMO, a typical Google rollout!


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## pj1983 (Dec 26, 2016)

NashGuy said:


> I would also recommend that the OP take a look at YouTube TV, which is IMO overall the best bargain going at $65/mo. However, it isn't the closest thing to a traditional cable TV experience of all the streaming services. That would be DirecTV Stream, which I would also recommend the OP take a look at.
> 
> DTV Stream now includes their unlimited cloud DVR for no additional cost (used to be an extra $10/mo). The downside is that it just stores recordings for 90 days before auto-deleting them. But its UI and feature set is more like a TiVo or traditional cable/satellite DVR than is the case with YouTube TV, which also has an unlimited DVR but retains recordings for 9 months before auto-deleting them.


Do you know if the unlimited DTV DVR for $0/mo is an offer for new (or long-term) subs only? I just checked my in-law's account and the unlimited DVR is still a $10/mo option but they've only had the service for 4 months.



NashGuy said:


> Another thing DTV Stream has going for it is their optional dedicated Android TV streaming box with full-function voice remote, which makes using it more like a high-quality cable TV service and not as much like a streaming service. Those boxes cost $120 each up-front, although they'll spread the cost out at $5/mo for 24 months at sign-up if you like. You buy them, not rent them. And you don't _have_ to buy them, you can use their apps for Apple TV, Roku and Fire TV at no additional cost on up to 20 devices on your home network at the same time, plus another 2 or 3 mobile devices away from home. And DTV Stream is reputed to have the best HD picture quality and widest support for DD 5.1 audio of all the streaming cable TV services too.


Good point. I wish I'd known that the box was optional before I had my in-laws sign up for the service. The sales rep, naturally, didn't happen to mention that. eBay is full of nearly-new to well-used DTVStream boxes in the $20 and up range. Some of them won't activate for various reasons and DirectTV won't replace them, of course, so it's up to the buyer to work out a resolution with the seller in those cases.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

pj1983 said:


> Do you know if the unlimited DTV DVR for $0/mo is an offer for new (or long-term) subs only? I just checked my in-law's account and the unlimited DVR is still a $10/mo option but they've only had the service for 4 months.


This is raging online debate at the moment. Some long-term subs are saying that they now are getting unlimited DVR for free, others are saying they are not. Different customers are getting different answers from DTV Stream reps when they contact them to ask about it.

Worst-case scenario for your in-laws is, if a week or so from now they aren't getting the free unlimited DVR, even after contacting support and asking for it, they just cancel the service. After they finish out the current month that's already paid for, they sign back up again using a different email address and then as a "new" customer they'll definitely get the free unlimited DVR. (From what I've read, the DTV Stream customer database is completely tied to email address as the unique identifier.) The only real downsides are that they'd lose whatever recordings are currently stored in their cloud DVR and, if they purchased any of those boxes up-front and chose to pay them off over time, they'll be charged the full remaining balance at the time they cancel. But cloud DVR recordings auto-expire after 90 days anyhow and they were always going to be on the hook for the full cost of those boxes ($120 each), so I don't see either as a huge deal. (Keep in mind too that a lot of recent shows are available from DTV Stream on-demand, with unskippable ads, as a back-up option if you don't have a cloud DVR recording of the show.)



pj1983 said:


> Good point. I wish I'd known that the box was optional before I had my in-laws sign up for the service. The sales rep, naturally, didn't happen to mention that. eBay is full of nearly-new to well-used DTVStream boxes in the $20 and up range. Some of them won't activate for various reasons and DirectTV won't replace them, of course, so it's up to the buyer to work out a resolution with the seller in those cases.


Yes. I used to routinely mention the eBay option for those boxes but now that some older boxes aren't properly activating, I don't even recommend it. I'm sure that option will still work out for many folks, but it appears to be a "buyer beware" situation now.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

CA2DC said:


> IF I were happy with my Edge with CableCARD and the newer Tivo UI, I wouldn't be contemplating a change and wouldn't have posted.  Problem is that we hate the new UI and my Edge isn't nearly as reliable as my previous boxes.


then why did you get newer boxes? If you still have e.g. Premiere or Roamio boxes, you can use them (that's what I use).

Did you "upgrade" thinking it would be an improvement just for the heck of it?


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

OP - You mention having FiOS & Verizon but you never mention 'location'. Are you in NOVA by chance? zip code? What Mini(s) do you use?


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## DocNo (Oct 10, 2001)

timbracken said:


> My 3TB Bolt+ died a few months ago (failed harddrive yet again on that unit) and I got the Edge. I use the 1st gen mini in my other room. Based on your comment I’m wondering if I can revive my Bolt+ by hooking up an external harddrive to it and use it in place of the mini? I deactivated my service though on the Bolt+ and bought Lifetime with the Edge. Just curious what my options are with the Bolt (if any). Thanks for any input.


If you transferred service on the Bolt you would have to add it back - not sure if it would be worth it. Cable card on the Edge can record 4 channels, just like the Bolt. Unlike the Bolt, the Edge does support (what little there is) 4K content. 

If you did still want to revive the Bolt and it was just the hard drive that died, just get a 3.5" 8TB drive - I've shucked the Western Digital MyBooks or whatever the USB drives are - they routinely come on sale at BestBuy - crack the USB case, extract the hard drive and you almost always end up with a WD Red. Although I suppose these days there might be significant risk of getting an SMR drive doing that. The Data Horders sub thread on Reddit is an awesome resource to find the best deals on larger hard drives. And if you don't understand SMR - search the Data Hoarders reddit for SMR (TL;dr - do NOT buy an SMR drive for use in a Tivo) Also avoid Amazon for drives - it's a crap show with what you may or may not actually end up with. Before all the people pop out of the weeds to tell me how awesome their experience with Amazon has been - congratulations! You've been lucky. Good luck and I hope you don't value your time when you finally do get a crap/counterfeit product - especially one that mostly works at first. So much fun! 

Anyway, once you have a suitable 3.5" drive you want to use if it's over 3TB you might have to run MFS Reformatter to prep the drive - no biggie, really. Then just run a regular internal SATA cable from the Bolt's internal connection to the 3.5" drive. Power the 3.5" drive externally. USB to SATA kits include hard drive power supplies that are PERFECT for this (and make running MFS Reformatter easy too!). One like this: https://www.walmart.com/ip/SATA-PAT...rive-with-External-AC-Power-Adapter/706363896 That kit even comes with an internal SATA cable.

Not recommending that USB kit per se; just first one with picture of the kind of external power supply for the 3.5" hard drive I'm talking about - the black cable on the power brick connect to the white (molex) connector on the red/black/yellow cable. At first I just set the hard drive on the shelf behind the Bolt and cut a hole in the case big enough for the SATA cable to poke out the back. Eventually I just ripped the top off the bolt and left it off, hacked up the back of a dead Tivo Romio, stuffed the bolt and hard drive inside the Romio and got something looking more respectable - but would have been perfectly fine leaving the 3.5" drive in the open behind the bolt; had it that way for over 3 years just fine. No overheating issues anyway


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## JLV03 (Feb 12, 2018)

DocNo said:


> If you transferred service on the Bolt you would have to add it back - not sure if it would be worth it. Cable card on the Edge can record 4 channels, just like the Bolt. Unlike the Bolt, the Edge does support (what little there is) 4K content.


The Edge for cable should have 6 tuners. 

The Bolt has always had and supported 4k content, both streaming and via cable. Issue is there isn't much there on the cable side.


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## lesrhorer (Oct 10, 2020)

TiVo has definitely gone steeply downhill over the last two decades. The Series I was a great unit, albeit physically quite limited. The Series II was almost no improvement, and in many ways it was a step backwards. The Series III was a great improvement in terms of the hardware, and the Chain of Trust was fairly easy to defeat, leaving one with a fairly decent piece of hardware, albeit slow,, and it was / is a bad bit of business the CableCard never quite worked as promised on the Series III. The Premiere was a significant step forward in terms of speed and of the functioning of the CableCards, but otherwise it is a total piece of crap. They gutted most of the best features of the software for no discernible purpose. The chain of trust is apparently unbreakable, which makes the unit nearly totally useless. To add insult to injury, the new program guide service is a steaming pile of dog do.

To answer the OP's question, I don't see there really is a solution. The CATV industry's moronic attitudes are making them an untenable solution, and streaming services offer little or nothing I want. My video library s large enough to last me well enough for the rest of my life, so the TiVo's are likely to be relegated to nothing more than a media client for my servers. They do not do very well in this respect, but they do well enough. That will likely be the entire extent of my TV watching, with the exception of a few YouTube channels like SciManDan, Thunderf00t, This Old Tony, and Blondihacks.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

lesrhorer said:


> TiVo has definitely gone steeply downhill over the last two decades. The Series I was a great unit, albeit physically quite limited. The Series II was almost no improvement, and in many ways it was a step backwards. The Series III was a great improvement in terms of the hardware, and the Chain of Trust was fairly easy to defeat, leaving one with a fairly decent piece of hardware, albeit slow,, and it was / is a bad bit of business the CableCard never quite worked as promised on the Series III. The Premiere was a significant step forward in terms of speed and of the functioning of the CableCards, but otherwise it is a total piece of crap. They gutted most of the best features of the software for no discernible purpose. The chain of trust is apparently unbreakable, which makes the unit nearly totally useless. To add insult to injury, the new program guide service is a steaming pile of dog do.
> 
> To answer the OP's question, I don't see there really is a solution. The CATV industry's moronic attitudes are making them an untenable solution, and streaming services offer little or nothing I want. My video library s large enough to last me well enough for the rest of my life, so the TiVo's are likely to be relegated to nothing more than a media client for my servers. They do not do very well in this respect, but they do well enough. That will likely be the entire extent of my TV watching, with the exception of a few YouTube channels like SciManDan, Thunderf00t, This Old Tony, and Blondihacks.


The streaming services offer me literally everything I want. I got rid of the several hundred channels that I didn't watch. My wife was angry until she learned and now she is far happier looking for shows and not channels.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mschnebly said:


> The streaming services offer me literally everything I want. I got rid of the several hundred channels that I didn't watch. My wife was angry until she learned and now she is far happier looking for shows and not channels.


Can't remember now -- did you have an intermediate phase after leaving traditional cable+TiVo where you used a streaming cable service like YouTube TV? Or did you just go straight from cable to on-demand streaming services (e.g. HBO Max, Netflix, Prime Video, etc.)? Also, do you watch free OTA TV, either live or with some kind of OTA DVR system?


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## MrDell (Jul 8, 2012)

mschnebly said:


> The streaming services offer me literally everything I want. I got rid of the several hundred channels that I didn't watch. My wife was angry until she learned and now she is far happier looking for shows and not channels.


We are thinking of doing exactly the same thing you did!! We are streaming more and more and paying for cable channels we don’t watch. Luckily we are in a very good reception area and our TiVo’s can do cable and OTA …. So by putting up an antenna we will get all the locals …. PBS out of Boston may be an issue because they went to low vhf and using a monster antenna won’t pass wife’s acceptance ….. although if you become a public television supporter ($5.00 per month) you’re able to download the pbs app and access all their programming.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

lesrhorer said:


> The Premiere was a significant step forward in terms of speed and of the functioning of the CableCards, but otherwise it is a total piece of crap. They gutted most of the best features of the software for no discernible purpose. The chain of trust is apparently unbreakable, *which makes the unit nearly totally useless*.


Really? If you're a hoarder/pirate, sure. Otherwise, total BS - on Comcast e.g., only the premiums are CP'd.

Not to mention that the vast majority of users don't give a fig about xfer'ing stuff to PCs, nor do they care whether the Tivo code can be modded. It works well as intended, which is to be the best DVR you could get at the time. TE3 is still good stuff for recording/watching shows, even if the guide is crap at times. And the HDUI is way better than the SDUI that came before it, discovery bar notwithstanding.

The Premiere/Roamio/Bolt/Edge were obviously not for the hardcore, and were never intended to be.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

MrDell said:


> PBS out of Boston may be an issue because they went to low vhf and using a monster antenna won’t pass wife’s acceptance ….. although if you become a public television supporter ($5.00 per month) you’re able to download the pbs app and access all their programming.


Yep. And while supporting your local PBS station is a good thing to do regardless, you may be surprised at the amount of content you can access for free in their app. Basically everything that aired within the last 14 days, plus a lot of stuff older than that. The main thing you lose after 14 days without the paid Passport membership are the latest episodes of scripted shows (e.g. Masterpiece). You only get a rotating selection of older episodes of other flagship series like Nature, NOVA, and American Signature. But you get all back episodes of Frontline.


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## lesrhorer (Oct 10, 2020)

slowbiscuit said:


> Really? If you're a hoarder/pirate, sure.


Yes, really. First of all, building a library is _NOT_ hoarding, your attempt to disparage wanting to watch what I want when I want notwithstanding. I also have a modest book library, and that does not constitute hoarding, either. Compulsive hoarding is characterized by indiscriminate collecting of large amounts of poorly considered items, the vast majority of which are never used at all. Furthermore, it is also characterized by a near total lack of organization. My libraries consist exclusively of items that are prized by myself or members of my family, and they are filed and cross-referenced very consistently and effectively. One or the other of us watch several of the items in my video library and read several of the books in my library every week.

Perhaps you are obsessive to the point you wish to watch a particular item at a particular time every week, or else so in need of being led that you are sanguine with being forced particular things at more or less particular times, but I am not.

Nor am I a pirate. I pay for every bit of content I watch, including every bit I archive. There is no illegal content in either of my libraries.



slowbiscuit said:


> Otherwise, total BS - on Comcast e.g., only the premiums are CP'd.


Comcast is not available in my area, nor in the majority of areas. Although it is by a modest margin the largest MSO, its penetration is still only about 32%. (Note when it suits you, you speak of "most users", but when it applies to you, personally, you backup your arguments with less than 1/3 of users.)

For the most part, I don't care to watch anything but premium content. I certainly do not watch broadcast TV, with the exception of PBS. If I want to watch Downton Abbey, or an episode of Nova from twenty years ago, I do. Of course, I have also purchased many, many DVDs and BluRay discs. It is exactly such things that make up the vast majority of my TV enjoyment, and it would simply be impossible without an extensuive video library. The vast majority of what is on TV today is simply total crap. The tiny fraction that is not total crap I save to my library to watch again and again through the remainng years of my life.



slowbiscuit said:


> Not to mention that the vast majority of users don't give a fig about xfer'ing stuff to PCs


Who cares what the vast majority of users want? Are you happy to be guided by what a bunch of morons want? I am certainly not. The OP asked what the members of this forum, in particular I, would do, not the unwashed masses.



slowbiscuit said:


> nor do they care whether the Tivo code can be modded.


I do not care about them, any more than they care about me. No one's lack of desire for superior hardware is of the least bit of concern to me. I do not know you, so I cannot make any well considered insights into your character, but I might suggest you cogitate upon the term, "Sheeple".



slowbiscuit said:


> It works well as intended


No, it doesn't, by which I mean it would serve almost no purpose whatsoever for my needs unless modified. The exact same thing is true of a lathe I purchased last year, and also a vertical milling machine, not to mention hundreds of other tools. Without modification, their uses are badly limited. Add a few important modifications, and now their usability is increased many fold. The difference is, none of the machine tool manufacturers are at any pains to prevent me from modifying their products.



slowbiscuit said:


> which is to be the best DVR you could get at the time.


Well, depending on what "time" you mean, at one point it was the only DVR. In any case, however, the statement is irrelevant. With a little work, the Series I and Series III could easily be made much, much better, to the point they actually served a purpose for me (and still do). My sister in law purchase a Bolt. She considers it to be so utterly lousy, she never uses it. She is absolutely right.



slowbiscuit said:


> TE3 is still good stuff for recording/watching shows, even if the guide is crap at times.


The point is, it is just one more aggravating and utterly unnecessary reduction in quality of what at one time was a fairly good product, or more properly could be easily modified to be a fairly good product.



slowbiscuit said:


> And the HDUI is way better than the SDUI that came before it, discovery bar notwithstanding.


Oh, not even close. If my sister in law were able to roll back the UI on the Bolt, she would be using it. Both t he Bolt and the Premiere HDUI suck badly beyond belief. It is true the classic TiVo SDUI leaves a great deal to be desired, but the HDUI is far, far worse.



slowbiscuit said:


> The Premiere/Roamio/Bolt/Edge were obviously not for the hardcore, and were never intended to be.


What is your point? I suggested they are terrible, and you seem to concur, although you seem to fail to realize it. I hate to break it to you, but mediocrity is *NOT* a virtue, irrespective of how popular or profitable it might be.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

In other words, the box is useless FOR YOU. Which is pretty much what I said, but it doesn't mean the box is useless at all.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

NashGuy said:


> Can't remember now -- did you have an intermediate phase after leaving traditional cable+TiVo where you used a streaming cable service like YouTube TV? Or did you just go straight from cable to on-demand streaming services (e.g. HBO Max, Netflix, Prime Video, etc.)? Also, do you watch free OTA TV, either live or with some kind of OTA DVR system?


I went to Youtube Tv then went to streaming and now back to Youtube TV (For the wife) and some streaming. Yes, I have an antenna with Channels and the HDHomerun Flex Quatro.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

mschnebly said:


> I went to Youtube Tv then went to streaming and now back to Youtube TV (For the wife) and some streaming. Yes, I have an antenna with Channels and the HDHomerun Flex Quatro.


What's the antenna for? Doesn't Youtube TV carry your locals?


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

mdavej said:


> What's the antenna for? Doesn't Youtube TV carry your locals?


They don’t carry all of the locals. I merged in an antenna to get some of the sub channels and other Public channels not available.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

mdavej said:


> What's the antenna for? Doesn't Youtube TV carry your locals?


It's for our locals. Youtube TV doesn't carry most of them.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mschnebly said:


> It's for our locals. Youtube TV doesn't carry most of them.


Are you talking about diginets like MeTV, Grit, Antenna TV, etc? I realize YTTV doesn't have most of those (although they do carry national feeds of quite a few, including Get TV, Start TV, Cozi TV, Comet, Dabl, Court TV, etc.) 

I thought YTTV carries the local ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, PBS and CW stations just about everywhere. They also carry our local My Network TV station too.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

NashGuy said:


> Are you talking about diginets like MeTV, Grit, Antenna TV, etc? I realize YTTV doesn't have most of those (although they do carry national feeds of quite a few, including Get TV, Start TV, Cozi TV, Comet, Dabl, Court TV, etc.)
> 
> I thought YTTV carries the local ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, PBS and CW stations just about everywhere. They also carry our local My Network TV station too.


That is my understanding, also. Definitely true in the Dayton, OH area.


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## Cutthecord (Sep 10, 2011)

CA2DC said:


> So I've been using Tivo nonstop since 1999, so I was a relatively early adopter. I've gone through probably 6-8 boxes over that time frame, and purchased boxes for a half dozen family member at one time or another. To say I was a Tivo fanboy is putting it mildly. Heck, my friends still kid me about how much I've raved about Tivo's over the years.
> 
> But over these last few years I've noticed a significant decrease in the usability/functionality of my Tivo (currently using an Edge). An easy example, navigation changes are abysmal, particularly when I head down a path in the settings to find something, and instead of being able to back out a level to try something else, I have to start again from scratch. My wife and I both absolutely hate the current Home screen interface. Tivo used to have insane functionality based on continual improvements and user feedback. It just seems like with the Tivo acquisition (for their IP, not the devices), things have gone downhill.
> 
> ...


Well the answer to your question is an easy one for me. By far the best alternative to TiVo is ChannelsDVR paired with an Silicondust HomeRun OTA network tuner It is not difficult to set up and is reliable. ChannelsDVR costs $80 a year for the service, or $8 a month. The Silicondust HomeRun tuners last forever, cost a couple hundred or buy used on ebay for much less. You can buy a tuner with a hard drive built in but why? Install Channels DVR on an old laptop as a server connect an external drive to it. Or if the HDD in the "Server" computer is large enough you are good. I use Channels with my Apple TV's, but it works well on Firesticks, and the TiVo Stream4K, and nearly every other streamer. It's an app. It your streaming device has the ability to attach an External HDD, like the TiVo4K, then you don't need an old PC as a "server". What is beautiful about this set up is ChannelDVR has the ability to remove _all commercials from recordings automatically_. You can also add TVE as a source in addition to your Network tuner. It's scalable. Stop and think about what that means. If you don't know what TVE is, google it, you will be glad you did. Remember sharing is caring!!


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## jeff.c.sturm (14 d ago)

Channels DVR is the best I've found so far. Definitely not plug/play, it takes some effort to set up and get everything working the way you want. But so far it passes the "wife" test, she picked it up and used it right away. They did a good job creating a usable streaming app for Android TV.

It reminds me a little of my ancient MythTV setup I had running a decade ago, however I was the only one who could use it. My wife tried and was baffled by it. So ease of use is a big factor for us, but Channels is winning so far.


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