# Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. "The Beginning of the End" (5/13/14, Spoilers)



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Excellent episode. Those who stuck around during some of the earlier, somewhat weaker episodes have been rightfully rewarded.

I loved the writing during this episode. Even though not credited, I swear that Joss had a hand in writing at least parts of this episode, particularly the back and forth between Coulson and Fury.

I'm really glad they didn't try and redeem Ward. He survived the episode so we'll likely see him next season... but I'm hoping only in a recurring basis (if that) and that they keep Triplett on as his replacement. He's a much more interesting character and meshes well with Coulson's fascination with S.H.I.E.L.D. relics.

Nice call back to Avengers with the Coulson and the big ass gun. (For those who don't recall, during Coulson's death scene, he fired that gun at Loki, saying "So, that's what it does.")

I also liked that they at least tried to acknowledge those who said that FitzSimmons would never have survived... as well as providing a (admittedly rather implausible) explanation how they might have.

All in all... a very good ending to a good season, and I'm looking forward to next season.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> I loved the writing during this episode. Even though not credited, I swear that Joss had a hand in writing at least parts of this episode, particularly the back and forth between Coulson and Fury.


Definitely agree. I also thought Garrett's death scene was very Whedonesque.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

As I mentioned previously, I'm not real familiar with the Marvel universe, but I really got a kick out of this episode.

Especially with the end of Garrett. I was concerned they were going the Darth Vader route with him, but I was pleasantly surprised. And they did pump some money into this show. Those digital effects are not cheap.

Of course, we knew that FitzSimmons would survive, but I didn't realize that it would be so elaborate. Who knew that the container would automatically compensate for falling into 90 feet of water?

Ward seems to be permanently out of the good graces of SHIELD. I just hope they don't try to rehabilitate him next season.

Unfortunately, we have to wait til late September to find out about Coulson's knife doodles. Looks alien. Or maybe the diagram of a circuit.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

So, they released all those "super soldiers"? And what about all those people in the operations room? Do they all get a pass for the murder and evil they committed or conspired with, simply because someone kidnapped their loved ones?


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## wedgecon (Dec 28, 2002)

As soon as they showed the box Garret was in broken open I started thinking "not the old nobody made sure he was dead cliche", Glad they did not go down that route


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## sean67854 (Jul 11, 2001)

So is Fitz off the show?


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

sean67854 said:


> So is Fitz off the show?


Doubt it. I can't see them breaking up FitzSimmons.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> Doubt it. I can't see them breaking up FitzSimmons.


I wonder if he's going to come back next season 'modified' in some way. There has to be a reason why we didn't see him post-rescue.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

RGM1138 said:


> Especially with the end of Garrett. I was concerned they were going the Darth Vader route with him, but I was pleasantly surprised.


The end of Garrett made me chuckle.

There's no way Fitz won't be back next season but I wouldn't miss him if he weren't. I can't understand half of what he says. Recast him with someone who speaks 'Merican, dammit.


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## jeepair (Apr 22, 2004)

Hmm, I don't understand the kidnapping. The people in the control room had super soldiers at their fingertips, couldn't they have used them to let loose the hostages. There was nobody pointing a gun at them.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> The end of Garrett made me chuckle.


And they spent a lot of money setting up the joke!

Yes, lots of Whedony goodness in this one.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> Excellent episode. Those who stuck around during some of the earlier, somewhat weaker episodes have been rightfully rewarded.
> 
> I loved the writing during this episode. Even though not credited, I swear that Joss had a hand in writing at least parts of this episode, particularly the back and forth between Coulson and Fury.
> 
> ...


I could echo everything you said. I hope that people who gave up on the show come back and watch all the episodes since the Hydra reveal. The show really picked up steam.

One thing I appreciated was that, not only did the show not try and redeem Ward none of the characters did either. Sky just taunted Ward and May beat the living crap out of him. No "I know there is still good inside of you". I appreciated how Sky reminded Ward that Garrett was true evil, but Ward was just a pathetic lap dog.

I assume Fitz is coming back, but the last shot of the team seem very much a nod from the Producers that "this is your SHIELD team for next year." However, you really can't have Simmons without Fitz.

I have to go back and watch, what was Simmons' reaction to Fitz's declaration that he loved Simmons? I have always felt Simmons loved Fitz, but as a brother, not romantically.


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## tibruk (Nov 28, 2003)

TriBruin said:


> I have to go back and watch, what was Simmons' reaction to Fitz's declaration that he loved Simmons? I have always felt Simmons loved Fitz, but as a brother, not romantically.


How could you miss her kissing him like that? She kissed him all around his head and hugged him pretty tightly.

I loved the episode. Great payoff for the season. I'm real glad the network stayed with them. Looking back on this I can see that the network had to know this all up front and can understand that as long as they were confident with the writing team being able to pick things up after Cap 2 there was no way they were going to cancel the show.

Tib


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

There was no way they were going to cancel the show because it is the hype machine for the movies, and the marvel universe in general.


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## JoeyJoJo (Sep 29, 2003)

She nailed his ****ing feet to the floor!


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

JoeyJoJo said:


> She nailed his ****ing feet to the floor!


There was so much going in this ep, I had forgotten about that. That was pretty cool.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

There's a reason you always cut off the head... BOOM
Joss HAD to have been involved in that.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

LoadStar said:


> I loved the writing during this episode. Even though not credited, I swear that Joss had a hand in writing at least parts of this episode, particularly the back and forth between Coulson and Fury.


On the contrary, and not to take away from the skills of the other two Whedons, but after just watching The Cabin in the Woods, I thought that the dialogue was a step below Joss. It was still excellent and there were a lot of great moments.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

I was surprised that Samuel L. Jackson had such a substantial roll. Maybe it was in his movie contract to also be available for the series.

So, Nick _was_ the director, and now he's turning over the reins to Coulson? (I'm still not caught up with all the Avenger movies yet).

Is Billy a twin, clone what?


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

RGM1138 said:


> Is Billy a twin, clone what?


Best theory? Life Model Decoy.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

LoadStar said:


> Best theory? Life Model Decoy.


Explain, please.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

RGM1138 said:


> So, Nick _was_ the director, and now he's turning over the reins to Coulson? (I'm still not caught up with all the Avenger movies yet).


Coulson's going to be deskbound next season? That won't last long.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

I really hope Patton Oswalt becomes a permanent cast member.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

LoadStar said:


> Best theory? Life Model Decoy.


That doesn't make sense since Eric was killed and bled. I think that the "realistic" MCU version of LMDs will be some kind of clone.

In the comics, Life Model Decoys were robots that could pass as human. Nick Fury used them all the time to fake his death when he needed to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_Model_Decoy


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

RGM1138 said:


> Is Billy a twin, clone what?


Didn't Eric mention something about playing Call of Duty with his twin brother?


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

I could be wrong but when Simmons and Fitz left the container under water I could have sworn that neither of then was wearing the oxygen mask. Did anyone else see that?

Gerry


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Gerryex said:


> I could be wrong but when Simmons and Fitz left the container under water I could have sworn that neither of then was wearing the oxygen mask. Did anyone else see that?
> 
> Gerry


You're correct. I think that Fitz said something about it being just a quick blast of oxygen to fill the lungs just long enough to get to the surface. The inference is that Jemma would have used the tank while the container was filling with water, then disposed of it.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> You're correct. I think that Fitz said something about it being just a quick blast of oxygen to fill the lungs just long enough to get to the surface. The inference is that Jemma would have used the tank while the container was filling with water, then disposed of it.


That whole sequence made no sense.

First Fitz talks through the fact that there is no way out of the container, and even if there were, they're in the middle of the ocean so they'd drown anyway.

Then they figure out a way out of the container, and suddenly who cares that they're in the middle of the ocean -- let's go drown!

Two minutes later, they're at the surface, with Fury magically waiting for them (directly overhead, no less). And Fitz may be irreparably damaged because his brain was without oxygen "for a long time".


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Well admittedly if Fury received their emergency beacon, directly overhead is where I would expect him. The fact that he was there at all is a stretch.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

zordude said:


> Well admittedly if Fury received their emergency beacon, directly overhead is where I would expect him.


10 feet off the water?


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## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

as a scuba diver that whole scene was a little annoying to me. they had some things right and some things... ehhhh. first, 90' depth will be ridiculous amounts of pressure all at once. i'm not too sure how one's ears would handle that burst of pressure, but that'd be the first thing i'd be worried about. We're taught to equalize (pop) the pressure in our ears every 3-5' of descend as we go down, and if you don't, you feel the pressure building.

They were accurate that the pressure would be a strong punch to the gut, and one breath could get you out. as you go up, your lungs expand as the air uncompresses, so if you go up at fastest possible safe rate of 1 foot per second, it's realistic that you can have enough air for 1.5 minutes.

i don't think that Fitz would've gotten knocked out from the blast though. he should've had enough wind in him to make it up somewhat. but in any case, 1.5 minutes of no air... i don't know, how much brain damage would that cause?

in any case, going up at that fast rate definitely puts you in danger of getting the bends, so i liked that they had Simmons in the decompression chamber.


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## Vendikarr (Feb 24, 2004)

milo99 said:


> as a scuba diver that whole scene was a little annoying to me. they had some things right and some things... ehhhh. first, 90' depth will be ridiculous amounts of pressure all at once. i'm not too sure how one's ears would handle that burst of pressure, but that'd be the first thing i'd be worried about. We're taught to equalize (pop) the pressure in our ears every 3-5' of descend as we go down, and if you don't, you feel the pressure building.
> 
> They were accurate that the pressure would be a strong punch to the gut, and one breath could get you out. as you go up, your lungs expand as the air uncompresses, so if you go up at fastest possible safe rate of 1 foot per second, it's realistic that you can have enough air for 1.5 minutes.
> 
> ...


When Jemma and Fitz broke the surface, Jemma was not trying to revive him, she was trying to stay afloat holding him. Then Fury arrives and extends his hand to Jemma. Logic dictates you save the living one first, then deal with the unconscious/dead one. It could have been several minutes before Fitz was resuscitated.


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## type_g (Sep 9, 2002)

BOB'S YOUR UNCLE!!!!!! haha loved the scene


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## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

Vendikarr said:


> When Jemma and Fitz broke the surface, Jemma was not trying to revive him, she was trying to stay afloat holding him. Then Fury arrives and extends his hand to Jemma. Logic dictates you save the living one first, then deal with the unconscious/dead one. It could have been several minutes before Fitz was resuscitated.


good point...


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

Fitz even mentioned the bends in passing at the very beginning of the episode.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

JoeyJoJo said:


> She nailed his ****ing feet to the floor!


I loved that whole fight right from the beginning when you find out Skye is stalling and WHAM May slams into him.


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## MarkL (Jul 1, 2005)

john4200 said:


> So, they released all those "super soldiers"? And what about all those people in the operations room? Do they all get a pass for the murder and evil they committed or conspired with, simply because someone kidnapped their loved ones?


I imagine the super soldiers were detained for trial. They aren't "super" any more without the centipede tech. Their legal status would be interesting ... I imagine a number of them operated and commited criminal acts in multiple countries. Will the "I was just following orders" defense be accepted in their case?

None of the operators directly killed anyone that we know of ... they were accessories at worst. They were also likely also detained for trial, but their defense will be "duress" and some may turn "state's witness" in exchange for immunity. Most will probably be exonerated.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

TriBruin said:


> One thing I appreciated was that, not only did the show not try and redeem Ward none of the characters did either. Sky just taunted Ward and May beat the living crap out of him. No "I know there is still good inside of you". I appreciated how Sky reminded Ward that Garrett was true evil, but Ward was just a pathetic lap dog.


I was reading elsewhere though that the producers are saying that Brett Dalton will be back next season and compare him to the Winter Soldier.



LoadStar said:


> Best theory? Life Model Decoy.





Azlen said:


> Didn't Eric mention something about playing Call of Duty with his twin brother?


Yes, but I don't think he said "twin" though.

So just how many LMD Koenig's with a lanyard fetish are there?

I've also been having the feeling the last several episodes that both Raina and Skye are latent Inhumans.
(I think I threw out Skye as an Inhuman when we found out she was an "084".)

And I called Coulson and Company as the nucleus of a new S.H.I.E.L.D.

And I agree with Loadstar's points in the OP.

All in all, looking forward to Season 2.


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

I giggled at Garrett's demise, then Coulson's nonchalant response. 

I thought for a moment the show was going down a very bad path.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

LoadStar said:


> I'm really glad they didn't try and redeem Ward. He survived the episode so we'll likely see him next season... but I'm hoping only in a recurring basis (if that) and that they keep Triplett on as his replacement. He's a much more interesting character and meshes well with Coulson's fascination with S.H.I.E.L.D. relics.


Yah, this. And they were setting it up for him to redeem himself bigtime, I'm very glad they didn't follow that urge.

-smak-


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I already got the sense from this episode that Ward will be "redeemed" sometime soon. Didn't he already say he wasn't loyal to Hydra so much as just to Garrett? And he didn't know what to do with himself without orders to follow. And now there's no Garrett for him to report to.

I bet he's going to "learn more about himself" from this experience and decide on his own that he wants to be loyal to SHIELD. And then there's going to be big-time trust issues all around.


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## Loach (Jan 11, 2013)

Maybe I missed something but I didn't understand why Coulson wouldn't just shoot Garrett with the big ass gun. It seemed like he shot every other Hydra operative in the room, then just paused and waited for Peterson to do something. Realistically shouldn't he have fired on Garrett, and probably on Peterson as well? What assurance did he have that Skye and May would be able to redeem Peterson?


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## Loach (Jan 11, 2013)

DancnDude said:


> I already got the sense from this episode that Ward will be "redeemed" sometime soon. Didn't he already say he wasn't loyal to Hydra so much as just to Garrett? And he didn't know what to do with himself without orders to follow. And now there's no Garrett for him to report to.
> 
> I bet he's going to "learn more about himself" from this experience and decide on his own that he wants to be loyal to SHIELD. And then there's going to be big-time trust issues all around.


Agreed - I don't like it but I still think they are setting him up for redemption. Seems like they went to great lengths this episode to paint him as a patsy who is now realizing he's made big mistakes.


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## MarkL (Jul 1, 2005)

Loach said:


> What assurance did he have that Skye and May would be able to redeem Peterson?


That's the "big risk" May was alluding to while they were reviewing the plan, I think.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

MarkL said:


> None of the operators directly killed anyone that we know of ... they were accessories at worst. They were also likely also detained for trial, but their defense will be "duress" and some may turn "state's witness" in exchange for immunity. Most will probably be exonerated.


It is extremely likely that many of them gave orders to people to commit murder. So, "at worst", they are guilty of murder for hire or conspiracy to commit murder. That is a serious charge. And it can likely be proven, both by testimony of people who were given the orders, and probably by records and computer recordings.

"Duress" is a rather lame defense in such a case. They themselves were not held prisoner. They could have gone to the authorities.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

RGM1138 said:


> There was so much going in this ep, I had forgotten about that. That was pretty cool.


Nowadays construction site fight always means nail gun.

And it always has nails and there's always compressed air in the line.

But at least they didn't show it shooting nails across a distance (which they are specifically designed not to be able to do).


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Vendikarr said:


> When Jemma and Fitz broke the surface, Jemma was not trying to revive him, she was trying to stay afloat holding him. Then Fury arrives and extends his hand to Jemma. Logic dictates you save the living one first, then deal with the unconscious/dead one. It could have been several minutes before Fitz was resuscitated.


No way she was letting go of him.

Not even if she had to pull Fury out of the chopper to use as a flotation device.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

john4200 said:


> It is extremely likely that many of them gave orders to people to commit murder. So, "at worst", they are guilty of murder for hire or conspiracy to commit murder. That is a serious charge. And it can likely be proven, both by testimony of people who were given the orders, and probably by records and computer recordings.
> 
> "Duress" is a rather lame defense in such a case. They themselves were not held prisoner. They could have gone to the authorities.


Did they have the exploding eyeball implants?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

tibruk said:


> How could you miss her kissing him like that? She kissed him all around his head and hugged him pretty tightly.


Guy declares his love for her, as well as his intention to sacrifice himself so that she may live, and in return she friendzones him.  

I think if a guy is willing to die so you can live, the least you can do is give the guy some hand stuff.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

milo99 said:


> in any case, going up at that fast rate definitely puts you in danger of getting the bends, so i liked that they had Simmons in the decompression chamber.


Yeah, I saw that and said, "now _that's_ an appropriate use of a hyperbaric chamber!!"


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

unitron said:


> Did they have the exploding eyeball implants?


The people running the computers? Not likely. They were the handlers for the people with the exploding eyes. If they had exploding eyes themselves, then there would have to be another room full of people handling them. And then who would handle those people? Riddle me that!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

john4200 said:


> The people running the computers? Not likely. They were the handlers for the people with the exploding eyes. If they had exploding eyes themselves, then there would have to be another room full of people handling them. And then who would handle those people? Riddle me that!


It's turtles all the way down.


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## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

NoThru22 said:


> Fitz even mentioned the bends in passing at the very beginning of the episode.


yeah.. i don't always catch everything he says, so i missed that.


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## mchasal (Jun 6, 2001)

Loach said:


> Maybe I missed something but I didn't understand why Coulson wouldn't just shoot Garrett with the big ass gun. It seemed like he shot every other Hydra operative in the room, then just paused and waited for Peterson to do something. Realistically shouldn't he have fired on Garrett, and probably on Peterson as well? What assurance did he have that Skye and May would be able to redeem Peterson?


My recollection is that the big ass gun failed for some reason. Ran out of "ammo" or something. I remember the lights fading out on it and Coulson looking at it for a second.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

tibruk said:


> How could you miss her kissing him like that? She kissed him all around his head and hugged him pretty tightly.


Yeah---all around his head, everywhere except on his lips...


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It's turtles all the way down.


Wouldn't turtles be too slow to be handlers? And they would have trouble with the keyboards. Or did you mean mutant turtles?


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

Yeah, I was just watching that again. She was pretty much still screaming as the window blew. So, she should have died from lack of oxygen.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

I had wanted to do a longer post with some detailed thoughts after watching the episode, but I've run out of steam for that so will just post a few shorter comments.

Nice turnaround for the show after a very rocky first 2/3 of the season. Obviously a lot of the early problems were due to having to stall for Captain America 2. But the show didn't have to be as "meh" as it was despite that, so the showrunners are still on probation as far as I'm concerned. But no question they really upped their game once turned loose on the "uprising" arc. I've looked forward to watching the show for the last several episodes, which I could not say for most the season before.

I do hope they concentrate on better writing. There are still way too many "what the hell" moments, the dialog is still often leaden, and so on. If the show wants to keep having a conversation with the movies, it needs to up its game. It'll never be able to hang in terms of visuals or production, but it can with better writing. Many of the movies aren't exactly Shakespeare (see the Thor movies, for example). SHIELD should clear that bar. Right now it doesn't.

Those things said, the finale was fun. I was quite dismayed when Garrett rose from the dead, and thus had a good laugh at having been faked out. I'm less enamored of the new Coulson mystery, because the old one (TAHITI) wasn't compelling at all, but we'll see where it goes. Same for Skye. 

Great fight between May and Ward. (Ming-Na Wen has gotten much better at fight scenes since the show started.) I too am worried that they are planting seeds for Ward's redemption. If they do that, I'll have to drop the show. The guy has to go to jail, at least.

Seemed pretty obvious that Sam Jackson was actually on-set for only a day (to film the scene with both Clark Gregg and Ming-Na Wen, at the end). Every other shot of him was over-the-shoulder (stand-in) and/or cross-cut with the other actor in the scene (Clark Gregg in the facility and Simmons Actress in the helicopter rescue). There was a shot or two of Coulson and Fury standing next to each other when facing down Garrett, but I assume that was a composite.

Maybe it was obvious to everyone but me, but I just learned today that Chloe Bennet's (Skye) real name is Chloe Wang, and she's half Chinese.

Best line in the finale: as Ward and May fight, he throws her on the table saw and pins her down. Ward: "This should seem familiar." May: "You were never on top!"


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

cmontyburns said:


> I'm less enamored of the new Coulson mystery, because the old one (TAHITI) wasn't compelling at all, but we'll see where it goes.


I'm brainlocking... what's the new Coulson mystery?


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Am I the only one that thought that Garrett, just before getting blasted to smithereens, looked like the comic version of Ultron?

I thought maybe they were setting up that somehow that's connected.


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## tibruk (Nov 28, 2003)

Good thing you were brief


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

busyba said:


> I'm brainlocking... what's the new Coulson mystery?


The lines on the wall, like what Garret drew.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

busyba said:


> I'm brainlocking... what's the new Coulson mystery?


There was a scene WAAAY at the end where he started writing out stuff like Garrett did.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

cmontyburns said:


> Maybe it was obvious to everyone but me, but I just learned today that Chloe Bennet's (Skye) real name is Chloe Wang, and she's half Chinese.


She also attempted to be a Chinese pop star a few years ago.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

eddyj said:


> The lines on the wall, like what Garret drew.


Right. Duh.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

milo99 said:


> as a scuba diver that whole scene was a little annoying to me. they had some things right and some things... ehhhh. first, 90' depth will be ridiculous amounts of pressure all at once. i'm not too sure how one's ears would handle that burst of pressure, but that'd be the first thing i'd be worried about. We're taught to equalize (pop) the pressure in our ears every 3-5' of descend as we go down, and if you don't, you feel the pressure building.
> 
> They were accurate that the pressure would be a strong punch to the gut, and one breath could get you out. as you go up, your lungs expand as the air uncompresses, so if you go up at fastest possible safe rate of 1 foot per second, it's realistic that you can have enough air for 1.5 minutes.
> 
> ...


It's been a while since I did scuba certification, but wouldn't the risk of the bends depend on whether the chamber was pressurized?

If it was standard pressure (and just really strong walls and glass) then their blood shouldn't have any excess nitrogen because they'd only be breathing pressurized air for the seconds after they blow the window or the couple of breaths from the air tank. (And I got the impression from the Fitzsimons's discussion about its strength that it probably was still standard pressure)

That's why dive tables to avoid decompression are a mix of depth and time, you don't pick up the excess nitrogen load instantly.

And without extra nitrogen in the blood they I don't think they should be at risk of the bends even ascending from 90'. (OTOH make _sure_ to exhale the whole way up; because holding your breath is a great way to rupture a lung)

(But if my assumption is wrong and the chamber pressurized the air to balance the water pressure then yeah, they'd been breathing it more than long enough to get plenty of nitrogen dissolved in their blood. And either way it's not like throwing them in a hyperbaric chamber is likely to hurt; so it may be a case of better safe than sorry)


Loach said:


> Maybe I missed something but I didn't understand why Coulson wouldn't just shoot Garrett with the big ass gun. It seemed like he shot every other Hydra operative in the room, then just paused and waited for Peterson to do something.


I thought Coulson _did_ shoot him; it just didn't really do anything; presumably because of the T.A.H.I.T.I. serum Garrett had taken. But I went back and looked - Garrett wasn't hit cleanly. But the 2nd shot hit two operatives standing near him; he looked (to me) about as close to the 'blast' as they were and it didn't phase him. (And then the gun powered down after the 4rd shot took out the last of the charging operatives)


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

milo99 said:


> as a scuba diver that whole scene was a little annoying to me. they had some things right and some things... ehhhh. first, 90' depth will be ridiculous amounts of pressure all at once. i'm not too sure how one's ears would handle that burst of pressure, but that'd be the first thing i'd be worried about. We're taught to equalize (pop) the pressure in our ears every 3-5' of descend as we go down, and if you don't, you feel the pressure building. They were accurate that the pressure would be a strong punch to the gut, and one breath could get you out. as you go up, your lungs expand as the air uncompresses, so if you go up at fastest possible safe rate of 1 foot per second, it's realistic that you can have enough air for 1.5 minutes. i don't think that Fitz would've gotten knocked out from the blast though. he should've had enough wind in him to make it up somewhat. but in any case, 1.5 minutes of no air... i don't know, how much brain damage would that cause? in any case, going up at that fast rate definitely puts you in danger of getting the bends, so i liked that they had Simmons in the decompression chamber.


IMO, you wouldn't need he decompression chamber. Think about it. The chamber was sealed at sea level. They did not equalize the pressure in the chamber, so the chamber managed to stay together with the ~3 ATM of pressure. Inside it still would have been 1 ATM.


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

Or what Jonathan said. 

Also, she would need the pressurized gas because if you go from 1 ATM of pressure to 3 ATM of pressure your lungs would get crushed. Think. You have air in your lungs at 1ATM and all of a sudden the pressure around you goes to 3x that. You'd have the wind knocked out of you.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

I'm thinking back to the Big Blue Alien again. Did they ever clear that up or was that just left hanging?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

RGM1138 said:


> I'm thinking back to the Big Blue Alien again. Did they ever clear that up or was that just left hanging?


I suspect that will be a plot point in the movies, perhaps as early as Guardians of the Galaxy.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I suspect that will be a plot point in the movies, perhaps as early as Guardians of the Galaxy.


I've seen the trailer for GotG. Is that Marvel's B team?


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

unitron said:


> Did they have the exploding eyeball implants?


The soldiers did, but not sure about the control room people. When the soldiers were being marched out Coulson made the comment that without regular injections and once their cybernetic eyes were removed that they would be back to being ordinary people.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

RGM1138 said:


> I've seen the trailer for GotG. Is that Marvel's B team?


No, it's Marvel's space team.


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## wedgecon (Dec 28, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> No, it's Marvel's space team.


Do they have any connection to S.H.I.E.L.D or any of the characters in the current Marvel cinema universe?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wedgecon said:


> Do they have any connection to S.H.I.E.L.D or any of the characters in the current Marvel cinema universe?


Not really...the spin for the book was that if the kind of troubles the Guardians faced ever made it to Earth, it would be bye-bye Earth. So they try to stop them before they get here.

Iron Man recently hung out with them, though, in a way that makes people wonder if he'll be in the Guardians movie. And two of them have connections with Thanos, the purple guy from the Avengers end credits.


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## oscarfish (Mar 2, 2009)

They needed the hyperbaric chamber because they didn't want to wait the however long it takes between diving and flying. Of course, like its already been pointed out, none of that is necessary if the container wasn't pressurized.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Not really...the spin for the book was that if the kind of troubles the Guardians faced ever made it to Earth, it would be bye-bye Earth. So they try to stop them before they get here.
> 
> Iron Man recently hung out with them, though, in a way that makes people wonder if he'll be in the Guardians movie. And two of them have connections with Thanos, the purple guy from the Avengers end credits.


Damn, you do know your Marvel Universe.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

The nail gun thing kinda disappointed me. I can't say it was stolen, but the exact method was used before during the climactic fight scene/confrontation in



Spoiler



The Girl who Kicked the Hornet's Nest


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Peter000 said:


> The nail gun thing kinda disappointed me. I can't say it was stolen, but the exact method was used before during the climactic fight scene/confrontation in
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Book, Movie, remake, or some combination of the above?

(I've got the book around here somewhere, just don't want to spend an hour or three looking for it)


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

The container may have been pressurized, but it was also adapting, and depending on the outside pressure, it may also have been increasing the inside pressure, rather than crush. So they were still under pressure and needed the hyperbaric chamber.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

unitron said:


> Book, Movie, remake, or some combination of the above?
> 
> (I've got the book around here somewhere, just don't want to spend an hour or three looking for it)


3rd Book and movie. There hasn't been a remake of the 2nd or 3rd movie.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

eddyj said:


> The container may have been pressurized, but it was also adapting, and depending on the outside pressure, it may also have been increasing the inside pressure, rather than crush. So they were still under pressure and needed the hyperbaric chamber.
> 
> That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.


I was thinking back on my scuba training and wondering if they would need to decompress, since they were inside the container, and didn't dive to the depth outside.

But, since they were in a magical pod that increased the outside density of the unit, and had an air supply of at least an hour, I've concluded that they were in no danger at all. They could have just pushed open the window and had a uneventful rise to the surface, where Uncle Nick was already waiting with an outstretched arm.

And tea and crumpets.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

And just what the hell is Gravitonium anyway?


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

RGM1138 said:


> And just what the hell is Gravitonium anyway?


Missed an episode? S1E3 "The Asset"


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

RGM1138 said:


> And just what the hell is Gravitonium anyway?


It's an extremely rare, high atomic numbered element that distorts gravity fields within itself, causing an undulating, amorphous shape. Additionally, when an electric current is applied, the gravitonium solidifies, and those gravity fields erupt randomly, changing the rules of gravity around it.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

busyba said:


> It's an extremely rare, high atomic numbered element that distorts gravity fields within itself, causing an undulating, amorphous shape. Additionally, when an electric current is applied, the gravitonium solidifies, and those gravity fields erupt randomly, changing the rules of gravity around it.


Duh.

SOMEBODY wasn't paying attention in science class!


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Peter000 said:


> The nail gun thing kinda disappointed me. I can't say it was stolen, but the exact method was used before during the climactic fight scene/confrontation in
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sure it's been done before, but when it's done right, I love it. And I think they did it right with May using it on Ward! YMMV.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

busyba said:


> It's an extremely rare, high atomic numbered element that distorts gravity fields within itself, causing an undulating, amorphous shape. Additionally, when an electric current is applied, the gravitonium solidifies, and those gravity fields erupt randomly, changing the rules of gravity around it.


Okay, what uses did they have planned for it?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Duh.
> 
> SOMEBODY wasn't paying attention in science class!


Seriously! The sorry state of education these days is dispiriting.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

RGM1138 said:


> Okay, what uses did they have planned for it?


Are you asking what the practical applications of being able to manipulate gravity fields are?

Got a few hours?


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Peter000 said:


> The nail gun thing kinda disappointed me.


So long as the nail gun doesn't shoot nails across the room like a rifle as happens in 99% of movies that use a nail gun as weapon, I'm not disappointed!


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## JoeyJoJo (Sep 29, 2003)

smbaker said:


> So long as the nail gun doesn't shoot nails across the room like a rifle as happens in 99% of movies that use a nail gun as weapon, I'm not disappointed!


A piece of duct tape can override the safety mechanism.

Just sayin'


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

busyba said:


> Are you asking what the practical applications of being able to manipulate gravity fields are?
> 
> Got a few hours?


Okay, if you will, hit the highlights on real world uses. Could we go to another star with it? Make a star out of Jupiter? Freeze dry a taco?

And also, s'il vous plait, what might the Marvel villains have evil plans for?

ETA: You left out the part about the wiggly bits.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

RGM1138 said:


> Okay, if you will, hit the highlights on real world uses. Could we go to another star with it? Make a star out of Jupiter? Freeze dry a taco?
> 
> And also, s'il vous plait, what might the Marvel villains have evil plans for?


Smash your enemies flat would probably be high on teh list.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

RGM1138 said:


> Okay, if you will, hit the highlights on real world uses. Could we go to another star with it? Make a star out of Jupiter? Freeze dry a taco?


It doesn't necessarily solve the speed/distance issues with interstellar space travel, but just going up into space becomes pretty trivial.

Pretty much absolutely anything that involves moving objects that are difficult to move becomes trivial, so that would cover things like transportation, construction, etc...

You would finally be able to have your Marty McFly hoverboards.

You could make extremely powerful railguns, using gravitational fields instead of electromagnetic fields.

And that's just off the top of my head. "Limitless" would not be an excessive term with which to describe the possibilities.



> And also, s'il vous plait, what might the Marvel villains have evil plans for?


I suppose we'll see next season.



> ETA: You left out the part about the wiggly bits.


I don't even know what this means.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

busyba said:


> It doesn't necessarily solve the speed/distance issues with interstellar space travel, but just going up into space becomes pretty trivial.
> 
> Pretty much absolutely anything that involves moving objects that are difficult to move becomes trivial, so that would cover things like transportation, construction, etc...
> 
> ...


Cool. A well thought out presentation. I'd like a hoverboard. And a railgun.

Turns out that I had seen that ep, but just forgotten most of it. Fortunately, I was able to buy it on Amazon and refresh my memory.

I even remember us discussing it here. But the main thing I remember was about Skye's assets. I guess all the techno-ese just faded into the background.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

eddyj said:


> Smash your enemies flat would probably be high on teh list.


:up:


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## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

oscarfish said:


> They needed the hyperbaric chamber because they didn't want to wait the however long it takes between diving and flying. Of course, like its already been pointed out, none of that is necessary if the container wasn't pressurized.


They said they were in 90 feet of water and there are people that free dive 3 times that depth without tanks or anything. So I don't see a big problem since they didn't smoke and are young people they should be able to hold there breath for up to 4 min. I use to stay under water for almost 5 min. when I was young.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

busyba said:


> Are you asking what the practical applications of being able to manipulate gravity fields are?
> 
> Got a few hours?


But you previously said "those gravity fields erupt *randomly*", which doesn't sound practical at all, unless the desired result is universal terror for the short time the populace has left to live.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

busyba said:


> Are you asking what the practical applications of being able to manipulate gravity fields are?
> 
> Got a few hours?


Yeah, elaborate! Some people here haven't read the comics. Graviton was like... god. evil god. when I was reading comics 20+ years ago. I have no clue how they beat it... I am tempted to break out my comics from then and re-read them. I think it was resolved in Ironman? or was it Avengers? Either way, I've got the hardcopies.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

milo99 said:


> as a scuba diver that whole scene was a little annoying to me. they had some things right and some things... ehhhh. first, 90' depth will be ridiculous amounts of pressure all at once. i'm not too sure how one's ears would handle that burst of pressure, but that'd be the first thing i'd be worried about. We're taught to equalize (pop) the pressure in our ears every 3-5' of descend as we go down, and if you don't, you feel the pressure building.
> 
> They were accurate that the pressure would be a strong punch to the gut, and one breath could get you out. as you go up, your lungs expand as the air uncompresses, so if you go up at fastest possible safe rate of 1 foot per second, it's realistic that you can have enough air for 1.5 minutes.
> 
> ...


I disagree. They weren't breathing compressed air.

I just checked one of my log books. I spent 8+ minutes below 110' at a wreck dive a few years back. It was a recreational, air breathing, non-decomp dive. After spending 8 minutes at 130', we ascended normally and did the regular safety stop. That was it. An ascent from 90' after breathing NO COMPRESSED AIR is totally safe and doesn't require decompression. Their EARS would have totally busted!!!

Do you understand what gives people the bends? Dissolved nitrogen in the blood. If you aren't breathing compressed air, that doesn't happen.

As a free driver, I can say it hurts like a *****. I've done free dives to over 100 feet. My lungs shrink to the size of a softball. Getting kicked in the chest is a decent description.


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

Azlen said:


> Definitely agree. I also thought Garrett's death scene was very Whedonesque.


It was almost a callback to the end of "The Train Job" (first aired _Firefly _episode), so I agree entirely. Skye's stalling with Ward so May could get him from behind also reminded me of a moment in that same episode. ("Say that to my face.")

The callback to Coulson's death scene with the gun was one of the best callbacks ever in the history of television. It took me like five minutes of pause before I could stop laughing and watch again.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

justen_m said:


> I just checked one of my log books. I spent 8+ minutes below 110' at a wreck dive a few years back. It was a recreational, air breathing, non-decomp dive. After spending 8 minutes at 130', we ascended normally and did the regular safety stop. That was it. An ascent from 90' after breathing NO COMPRESSED AIR is totally safe and doesn't require decompression. Their EARS would have totally busted!!!


It's special anti-bends, anti-ear-busting S.H.I.E.L.D. air generator.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

unitron said:


> But you previously said "those gravity fields erupt *randomly*", which doesn't sound practical at all, unless the desired result is universal terror for the short time the populace has left to live.


My statement came with the presumption that you could figure out how to control and focus it's effects. Electricity is pretty useless too unless you channel it properly.


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## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

I can't wait for the fall season... I wish Fox or whoever owns the rights to The Avengers would show it on TV. Before the Fall Season starts.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

justen_m said:


> I disagree. They weren't breathing compressed air. I just checked one of my log books. I spent 8+ minutes below 110' at a wreck dive a few years back. It was a recreational, air breathing, non-decomp dive. After spending 8 minutes at 130', we ascended normally and did the regular safety stop. That was it. An ascent from 90' after breathing NO COMPRESSED AIR is totally safe and doesn't require decompression. Their EARS would have totally busted!!! Do you understand what gives people the bends? Dissolved nitrogen in the blood. If you aren't breathing compressed air, that doesn't happen. As a free driver, I can say it hurts like a *****. I've done free dives to over 100 feet. My lungs shrink to the size of a softball. Getting kicked in the chest is a decent description.


Would covering one's ears with hands be enough to stop them from being busted?


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Fl_Gulfer said:


> I can't wait for the fall season... I wish Fox or whoever owns the rights to The Avengers would show it on TV. Before the Fall Season starts.


It has been running repeatedly on Epix. It also is available streaming from Amazon Prime (or it was, haven't checked to see if it expired yet or not).

Avengers is a Marvel Studios production, distributed through Paramount.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

LoadStar said:


> It has been running repeatedly on Epix. It also is available streaming from Amazon Prime (or it was, haven't checked to see if it expired yet or not).
> 
> Avengers is a Marvel Studios production, distributed through Paramount.


It's also currently running on Netflix and Amazon Prime.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Fl_Gulfer said:


> I can't wait for the fall season... I wish Fox or whoever owns the rights to The Avengers would show it on TV. Before the Fall Season starts.


Looks like there's still too much money to be made on "Pay TV" type views and DVD sales for it to show up on ABC or TNT or FX or wherever for free anytime soon.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

You can probably watch it via Redbox for $1. Plus when it airs on broadcast TV it'll be edited.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Gunnyman said:


> There's a reason you always cut off the head... BOOM
> Joss HAD to have been involved in that.


Not on a Hydra.


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

Peter000 said:


> The nail gun thing kinda disappointed me. I can't say it was stolen, but the exact method was used before during the climactic fight scene/confrontation in
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thought of Lethal Weapon II.


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

RGM1138 said:


> I'm thinking back to the Big Blue Alien again. Did they ever clear that up or was that just left hanging?


I was thinking Frost Giant, since Sif said some of the beings in her world are blue, and that they had not been to earth in a "very very long time".


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Drewster said:


> I was thinking Frost Giant, since Sif said some of the beings in her world are blue, and that they had not been to earth in a "very very long time".


Those are the Dark Elves. This guy was almost certainly a Kree (a space alien, enemy of the Skrulls/Chitauri, who were the invaders in the Avengers movie).


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

Drewster said:


> I thought of Lethal Weapon II.


"Nailed him."


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## JoeyJoJo (Sep 29, 2003)

Drewster said:


> I was thinking Frost Giant, since Sif said some of the beings in her world are blue, and that they had not been to earth in a "very very long time".





Rob Helmerichs said:


> Those are the Dark Elves. This guy was almost certainly a Kree (a space alien, enemy of the Skrulls/Chitauri, who were the invaders in the Avengers movie).


Sif named a few different races when Coulson asked about blue aliens. She did mention the Frost Giants, but not the Dark Elves. She also mentioned the Kree.


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Those are the Dark Elves. This guy was almost certainly a Kree (a space alien, enemy of the Skrulls/Chitauri, who were the invaders in the Avengers movie).


I was definitely thinking of the Frost Giants, of which MCU Loki is revealed to be one (and blue).

I hadn't thought of the alien being a Kree. That's an interesting thought.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

Watched this over the weekend. I too laughed at the end of Garrett. Eyes rolled that they didn't finish him off. I did actually think how cool it would be if someone just blasted him while he was being assembled. I couldn't believe it when they actually did. Great stuff!! :up:


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