# Local Channels stuttering.



## GusMan (Nov 16, 2004)

Hi All,
About a month ago, I started to get a type of stuttering on my local channels. (I am in the Chicago area.) This started happening on both of my Hughes S2 DTivo boxes at the same time. All other channels appear to be fine. 

When the skips happen, the screen just freezes for like 1/4th of a second, and sound mutes with it. I do not see any of the usual pixelation associated with signal loss. I did check my signal strength, and they are good.

Ive rebooted the servers and even cleaned out the massive amounts of dust from inside the machines, just in case it was an overheating issue.

Anyone else having or had similar issues in the past? Any thoughts on a resolution?


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## mstbone67a (May 25, 2004)

So your not the only one. I have 3 r10's and they all started doing this around the same time. Granted 2 were activated and connected to satellite. This is where i am suspicious.

Hail/lightning storm came around bout the same time.. but no one around me has any issues with their hd dvr's or such.

2-r10's active bed,basement,
1-hr20 active- living room

bedroom r10 local channel stutters
basement r10 local channel stutters
craftroom r10--network only----activated week later to see if it was having issue and it is doing it also.
Directv came out swapped my multiswitch and changed me from 5lnb to 3lnb. still does it.
Occasionally the hr20 stutters on locals.. RARELY per the kids when we watch it in living room.

So i took my r10's out to someone elses house bout 45 mins from me to test with his sat/switch and it stutters there also.

This is def something with the sat tuner or feed, It is not the hard drive.
I had the orig harddrive from one of my r10's.(over5yrs old i think) and powered up and it stutters on locals..either tuner.

Then I took my dads RCA DVR80 and activated it, it does not stutter (non-modified)

so I was pegging this as a sat tuner issue on 2 of my units and thinking my 3rd r10 that was network only must have took power spike(makes no sense) .
So i am thinking of just getting some new rca dvr's and mod them long as they work.

I think i will need to post this on DD site also but surely we are not the only 2 having this issue.
So my plan is get new dvr or just punt it all and go net streaming. since the new dtivo is not gonna be out for ever.


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## dwellar (Apr 9, 2006)

Me too. Chicago area

I have 3 DTivo's, various manufacturers. All of the have this stutter, mostly or all on the local channels.

Sometimes the stutter happens several times in the first few minutes of a channel switch, then settles down to just a few times in a 30 minute/60 minute show. Not entirely predictable, and really annoying.

I even did a full delete and clear on one unit. It didn't help.

All units started about the same time, so I'm not ready to think it's a disk issue. I'm running 6.2a in all the units, with MRV enabled. One unit has the tuner problem where it pixilates every few minutes. Signal is good. I even split off the signal to use another multiplexer to check if my main 3x8 plexer was going bad.

Really would like to figure this one out. I seem to think it started back in January but I've been living with it so long, I don't remember exactly when I first noticed it.


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## mstbone67a (May 25, 2004)

Mine started in April bout time there was a big storm but ya know an occasional skip might have been around for a long time.
so i think we need to post in the other 2 forums and see, yeah this happened to all 3 of mine.. 1 which has not been on sat signal for over 2years(network only) sooo odd, and we know it isnt disk, like i said i put my orig disk back in same result. 

It does not occur on the rca dvr80 that i borrowed from my dad.

Also the kids mentioned our hd hr21 skipped on locals the other day. rarely do they watch locals on the hd dvr. 

puzzling..


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## GusMan (Nov 16, 2004)

dwellar said:


> Sometimes the stutter happens several times in the first few minutes of a channel switch, then settles down to just a few times in a 30 minute/60 minute show. Not entirely predictable, and really annoying.


I also noticed that the stutter is worse towards the top of the hour, when the programs just start or are about to end. There can be times at the bottom of the hour where it also happens, even if a channel change did not happen.

I guess the question is - what is different around those parts of the hour that impacts stability?

Even if I transfer the program to my other unit, it still happens.

Im going to see if I have another drive that I can put in just for kicks. I also believe it is not really a drive issue, but at the same time, when I see the exact same thing happen on two units, and the issue started around the same time, it makes me wonder what has changed.

Any other thoughts??


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## mstbone67a (May 25, 2004)

gusman. I can guarantee it is not a drive issue.. lets try to post in the other forums.. You know what i am talking about right.
Is yours hacked/modded?

so to recap .. my hacked dvrs are affected,, unhacked works fine.

Anyone else seeing this with unhacked.


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## Stuxnet (Feb 9, 2011)

Is this specific to a few channels or all channels. Are they SDV channels (if you have a TA).


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## dwellar (Apr 9, 2006)

I don't have HD. So for me, it's all SD. Most of the time the tivo will switch to a new channel to pick up the start of a new show - so it could be top/bottom of the hour or it could be on a channel switch. Both of those probably require the tivo to flush a buffer or reset some pointers. Certainly the tivo hard drive goes into extra work on a channel switch. Again, not to point to the drive, but to the extra workload that happens.


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## Captain 80s (Jan 16, 2007)

Same exact issue here in Seattle. Mostly on local channels, Standard def. I know it is not a drive issue, a particular faulty unit, or the dish. The same thing happens on 3 receivers, using 3 different dishes. All of my units are hacked Hughes Directivos.
Would really like to figure this out... super annoying. Occasionally/rarely it will happen on other channels, but it seems to be around the lower numbered channels, or just above, in the music channels every so often.
But on the locals... guaranteed to get it.


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## KF9WM (Jan 24, 2003)

I have the same thing here west of Indianapolis. It happens on two different boxes. I had had an extra LNB and multiswitch from my late grandmother's installation so I did some part swapping. My locals still stutter after the swap. i'm convinced that it is something "in the air."


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

My cable was doing that. Could this be a receiver issue.


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## mstbone67a (May 25, 2004)

I am in kc area.. where is everyone else.. Anyway to tell if this mpeg4 local thing might be the issue? (But it doesnt explain the un-modded dvr working.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21480078-DIRECTV-MPEG4-Conversion-causing-DTV-to-send-HDDVRs-for-STD


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## dwellar (Apr 9, 2006)

I'm running 6.2a and blocking the last update so I can keep using the built-in MRV. Is it possible one of the last updates made some adjustment for some stream change made to accommodate HD? Also, I'm think all my units have larger disks. Plus all units are wired ethernet with fixed IPs, with a 1Gb switch in the mix.

Just trying to get some comparisons going that might help identify where the problem is.


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## mstbone67a (May 25, 2004)

I think all of mine are 6.2a also.. whatever was for the r10. 

One thing that points to it not being a software upgrade, is my r10 in craft room has been de-activated for over a year, ethernet only for mrv. I reactivated it and it has same stuttering.
Mine are also wired ethernet to a switch.


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## hdog (Nov 10, 2002)

Just found this thread. For the last three weeks or so, I have been seeing this stuttering on the Chicago local channels. Never see it on non-local. I am in a condo being served by MDU using a stacked system. All three 708's are modded and on 6.2a. Will try to see if others in the building are seeing anything.


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## rumpleteazer (Jan 6, 2008)

Me too. All I have are zippered units with 160GB drives, so I have no comparison for hacked vs. unhacked. Chicago area. I didn't think mine were limited to local channels, but it's possible I just didn't notice.


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## hdog (Nov 10, 2002)

I had recently done maintenance on my three DSR708's. Replaced 6.4a on the living room one with zippered 6.2a, and then started noticing the 'stuttering.' Thought it was my problem, started doing testing. (didn't watch a lot of local channels on the other two 708's) Eventually saw this thread.

Now I have put a stock instantcake 6.2a on one DSR708, put original 6.4a disk back on the LR one, and left the hacked 6.2a (ptvnet and enhancement script) on the third. Have a variety of disks to use, ide's and Sata with the JMicron chip adapter. Right now, all 708's are on IDE drives.

Watching predominantly the 'Today' show for testing.

Stuttering occurs on both stock and hacked 6.2a, and does not occur on the 6.4a (no hacks). Recorded CNN during the same interval (7-11am), and do not see it there.

As reported before, it seems to occur when the network throws it to the local NBC5 Chicago station before 30min and before the hour. When the local NBC5 video appears, a blip usually occurs in about 15 seconds. Then maybe a couple more. Also seem to notice that if a 'new' video source occurs, say a local commercial, another blip may occur in 15 seconds. Not always. No blips seen during Today network feed.

Also occurs on other local channels. Best I've captured is channel 23, WWME Chicago, on a Twilight Zone promo at the beginning of a Mary Tyler Moore show. The Twilight Zone music goes: "dee-uhh-dee-dee-uhh-dee" 

As I said in previous post, I'm in a Chicago condo served by MDU Communications running a stacked system. The 708's have run fine for years. I also have a HR20I connected to Directv's MFH3 system delivering HD over phone wires using a vdsl modem. No blips seen on 'Today' on the HR20I.
Note: I am recording the SD feed on the HR20I.


Another tenant has stock R10's running 6.4a and I do not see any similar blips on the 'Today' show there. 
I am willing to try any more tests and or hacks. Have Winmfs backup of 6.4a, zipper cds, ptvnet, and instantcake 6.2a. Also have a few spare 708's and R10's

Interesting and annoying problem.


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## TivoMo (Dec 1, 2003)

It is happening to mine in Dallas. Local channels a while back and tonight it started with higher channels. If you skip back it won't keep skipping in the same place do it must be I'm the playback. I also rebooted and it was less, but comes back


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## hdog (Nov 10, 2002)

This is still occurring on my 6.2a dsr708's (one hacked, one unhacked). Still not occurring on my 6.4a (unhacked as of yet) dsr708.

When the local Chicago NBC5 station takes over before the half hour and the hour on the Today show, the closed captioning has to change from national to local. They even run an ad that local closed captioning is sponsored by Luna carpets. When I turn on CC, I can believe there is some correlation with the stuttering. Don't know how the cc switch occurs, but sometimes I see the cc end prior to the locals coming on, and I see the stuttering around those times. So, I have seen a stutter on the network just seconds away from what I think is a switch to the local.

Can closed captioning or other vbi information be involved?

Could some equipment at the local Chicago uplink of Directv have changed to cause something because of some 'ragged' switch? You'd think this is all accurately synchronized at NBC5 and the directv uplink would not see any kind of disruption.

And why would it occur on 6.2a and not on 6.4a?

Is there way to analyze the tivo files to identify the stuttering?

Searching shows a tivovbi app. Could that help identify anything?

Maybe also capture the output video on a video capture card for analysis?

Is there anyone in Chicago on 6.2a *not* seeing this stuttering on the locals?

I'm willing to keep testing if anyone has some ideas. Otherwise should we abandon 6.2a for 6.4a?


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## Captain 80s (Jan 16, 2007)

[I'm willing to keep testing if anyone has some ideas. Otherwise should we abandon 6.2a for 6.4a?[/QUOTE]

Pretty sure on 6.4 you lose MRV, and therefor Tivoserver. Those are the biggest benefits for me running hacked units. 
I would probably finally abandon my Directivos if I was forced into 6.4 because of this.

What's weird is that it kinda seems to be related to what's on the picture. Like on the news when they bring up the weather forecast graphics... stutter, stutter, stutter


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## lmv (Oct 4, 2007)

Just adding to the already posted info...
Started yesterday for me. 
Directv DVR R10 (Not modified) Software 64a
Hasn't called in for over a year (470 days) no phone line

Local channels only are stuttering
Noticed it this morning.

Hope it goes away soon!

7/4/2011
Well, it stopped doing it a couple of days ago and it hasn't done it since... so it is definitely not my equipment.


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## rumpleteazer (Jan 6, 2008)

Any other updates on this? I'm still seeing it on my locals in Chicago.


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## hdog (Nov 10, 2002)

Still occurring as of today, 7/9/11 in Chicago, 6.2a on DSR708's.

I captured some video of the stuttering on the Today show 6/30/11.
I thought this would allow others to see if the stuttering we see in Chicago is
the same as they see elsewhere in the country.
In this case I *did* see stuttering on the network feed as well as the local.
Details in a .txt fle in the archive. Started to call the stutters 'blips.'

The video was captured from one of the DSR708's to a Dazzle USB DVC170
as an mpeg-2 file.

The file is split into two rar files due to mediafire file size constraints.
Extract it with 7-zip or winrar.

You probably need a dvd codec to play in Windows Media Player, but it plays fine
in standard VLC Media Player http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

Anyone see any patterns?
Is this like what you see?
Please post your responses.

download link:
http://www.mediafire.com/dtivo_blip063011


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## wetchemistry (Dec 4, 2010)

I'm in the Chicago area, and have been experiencing the "audio stutter" problem on locals since around March 2011. I've written on a few other forums and have talked to DTV on the phone, no one has a solution. I have two DSR704's hacked. Does anyone experience this with hacked HR10-250's?


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## wetchemistry (Dec 4, 2010)

So, let me get this right. 6.4a does not stutter?


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## hdog (Nov 10, 2002)

wetchemistry said:


> So, let me get this right. 6.4a does not stutter?


I have been running one of my dsr708's on unhacked 6.4a (others two on unhacked 6.2a, and hacked 6.2a).

my 6.4a does *not* stutter
both 6.2a's stutter.

Another tenant in our building has 2 r10's on 6.4a. They do not stutter.

To add insult to injury, before I found this thread, I called our building Directv provider, MDU Communications, to observe the stutter (thought it might be in some of their common equipment). They saw it, then claimed that Directv didn't support those tivos, and left. Then they charged me $65 for the 'service call.' On a phone call, they backed off to claim even though they now agree that Directv *does* work with these tivos, 'MDU' doesn't support them, and, maybe Directv changed their signal (duh!) and too bad for me using such old equipment. No 'thanks' for showing them a problem that might exist for their other customers in Chicago, if not around the country.


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## Whipl50 (Jan 31, 2006)

I'm having the same issue with my hacked Hughes units. It's only the local feeds (I'm in the Chicago area). I'm almost finished remodeling my basement and will go with a HD DVR at that time, and will probably replace my SD unit in the bedroom too, so this is a good excuse to switch to HD everywhere, but I'm glad to finally find this thread. I've been searching the net and haven't found any other forum where this was posted.


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## wetchemistry (Dec 4, 2010)

I'm going to download 6.4a instantcake and redo my dsr704's, I'll keep you guys posted.


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## GusMan (Nov 16, 2004)

Well, Im glad to see that I was not the only one seeing this issue. While I think a pattern is forming as to what versions are having the problem, its not necessarily a good thing either. I say that because we transfer programs a lot between Tivo's and if 6.4a does not allow for MRV, then I guess its something we all will have to live with.

I really dont want to get new receivers mainly because I wanted to wait for the new HD Tivos to come out. Of course, who the heck knows when that will really happen.


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## blueman2 (Aug 15, 2004)

Any updates from others who have gone to 6.4a? I converted my Hughes box over from 6.2 to 6.4a. But I appear to still be getting some stuttering. Definitely less right now, but still there are mostly on local channels.


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## pizzaguy541 (Nov 24, 2007)

I have a hacked DVR80 with 6.4a and I have been experiencing the stuttering problem on my Detroit locals for a few weeks.

I'm convinced that DTV is doing something to the signal again.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Very unlikely it is a signal issue.


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## rumpleteazer (Jan 6, 2008)

stevel said:


> Very unlikely it is a signal issue.


You don't think so? I would guess that there's something new in the signal that the older units can't handle. It seems to have happened to a lot of us at the same time.

I'm running 3 hacked SD Hughes units and all of them show the problem.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Maybe you have a dish alignment issue. Where is the "lot of us" you refer to? Looking at http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=137707 I see some complaints from the 6th but not since then.


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## Tucker2 (Dec 6, 2006)

I also have experienced audio stuttering on mostly the local channels in the St. Louis area.

HR10-250 hacked, running 6.4a-01-2-357.

It's been happening for about the last week or so.


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## pizzaguy541 (Nov 24, 2007)

stevel said:


> Very unlikely it is a signal issue.


Since this problem only seems to affecting the local channels, common sense would tell you that it's a signal problem.
By affecting only the locals intermittently, it cannot be any of the following:

1. dish alignment

2. faulty lnb

3. bad splitter

4. bad tuner

5. bad power supply

6. bad motherboard

7. bad hard drive

Having any of those problems would cause a problem on all channels and not only on the locals.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

It could very well be a "local signal issue", but not in the satellite reception. More likely there's something in the data stream being sent to or broadcast by DirecTV that's affecting SD local channels in a few cities. This is hardly a widespread problem. But then again, there aren't too many Tivo DVRs being used anymore. And this problem seems to affect those with older software or certain modifications.


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## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

I have stuttering on my tivos running the newest software and they are not hacked. Only on the locals.


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## rumpleteazer (Jan 6, 2008)

stevel said:


> Maybe you have a dish alignment issue. Where is the "lot of us" you refer to? Looking at http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=137707 I see some complaints from the 6th but not since then.


I guess "lot" is relative, but I was referring to all of the people who posted so far on this thread. Since about April or so. You know way more about this than I do. But just logically, I would think that if multiple people start seeing the same problem at the same time, then it's most likely the signal.


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## tonydi (Mar 21, 2003)

litzdog911 said:


> It could very well be a "local signal issue", but not in the satellite reception. More likely there's something in the data stream being sent to or broadcast by DirecTV that's affecting SD local channels in a few cities. This is hardly a widespread problem. But then again, there aren't too many Tivo DVRs being used anymore. And this problem seems to affect those with older software or certain modifications.


Thanks for the heads-up on the DTV forum. I agree with your assessment and it makes perfect sense. My neighbors don't see it but a friend across town does. The difference? Neighbors on newer equipment, friend on an old DirecTivo like mine. She's unhacked and on 6.4a, so I don't think it's got anything to do with hacked 6.2 units. And as you say, there just can't be many of these units still in service, thus the low signal to noise ratio about this problem on forums.

I'm still baffled by the fact that, at least on my machines, rewinding and watching the same snippet of program will not display the stutter, nor will it manifest itself on recorded content that was stuttering live. I don't understand the process enough to explain why this is, but the best example I can think of is error correction in memory modules.


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## dwellar (Apr 9, 2006)

My bet is on signal content, not strength. Locals only, signal is strong. Tried different hardware. Replay of scenes often show less stutter.

I've recently watched some local channels where there is a clock hand moving (advert for Twilight Zone I think) and news scenes where there is some text crawl at the bottom of the screen. When the glitches/stuttering occur, I'm pretty sure the display is repeating the scene. It's as if the Tivo can not determine where the next stream data is, and retrieves the data that it just displayed. Why it goes back is the big question. Someone who knows how the Tivo processes the signal stream while doing other duties might have a clue.

I would expect that if the scene is repeating, the show run-time would expand, and at the end of the day something would be obviously out of time. But I don't stay that long on just local channels. Possibly the stutter is due to the Tivo missing the data it wants to display and it replays the previous data as a recovery mechanism.

In any case, this Friday (Sept 16), a local Chicago PBS channel (WYCC) had so much stuttering during a pledge drive that it was useless to even try to watch.


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## pizzaguy541 (Nov 24, 2007)

tonydi said:


> Thanks for the heads-up on the DTV forum. I agree with your assessment and it makes perfect sense. My neighbors don't see it but a friend across town does. The difference? Neighbors on newer equipment, friend on an old DirecTivo like mine. She's unhacked and on 6.4a, so I don't think it's got anything to do with hacked 6.2 units. And as you say, there just can't be many of these units still in service, thus the low signal to noise ratio about this problem on forums.
> 
> *I'm still baffled by the fact that, at least on my machines, rewinding and watching the same snippet of program will not display the stutter, nor will it manifest itself on recorded content that was stuttering live.* I don't understand the process enough to explain why this is, but the best example I can think of is error correction in memory modules.


You must be very lucky.

With everyone of my recorded programs that were from the local channels, the stuttering had also been recorded.


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## gsjenkins (Jun 12, 2005)

tonydi said:


> I'm still baffled by the fact that, at least on my machines, rewinding and watching the same snippet of program will not display the stutter, nor will it manifest itself on recorded content that was stuttering live. I don't understand the process enough to explain why this is, but the best example I can think of is error correction in memory modules.


I am having this identical problem, ie. hesitations, rewind, hesitate in a completely different place. It is with a Philips DTivo running software version 6.2a and it is hacked. It has been happening for several months, but is NOT happening on a bedroom Samsung DTivo that is about the same age with the same hacks. I moved the bedroom unit to the living room, where the problem is, and the problem moved to the bedroom unit. (I did not but the LR unit in the BR to see if maybe it was just a cable issue.) This points me to external hardware. I tried the kid's room unit, a Hughes, in the livingroom location and the problem was MUCH worse. I don't know if it was happening in its original location because all the kids are out of the house. That unit is just a spare that sits on standby. But again points to external influences at the livingroom location. I download a lot of stuff from the internet and transfer to this DTivo. Even the downloaded stuff hesitates, and in different locations when rewound. This certainly points to hardware, but not really external hardware, even though one of the spare units was MUCH worse in the livingroom location. So I took one of my several newer spare units out of storage and swapped the livingroom drive to it. Ran about ten minutes and started hesitating, so I put the drive back where it came from.

Funny thing about all this is that it isn't just locals. Channels 244 and 360 (SyFy and Fox News) also hesitate. Sooooo.... I plan on swapping to different, empty multiswitch holes today to see if it affects anything. I don't really expect it since the .avi files downloaded from the 'net and copied over for TV viewing also exhibit this phenomenon.

This is a tough nut to crack... Thanks for any thoughts and input.

Stewart...


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## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

I also have an r15 and the locals do not stutter on it, but they do on my two TIVOs.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

This is clearly a Tivo-specific issue. I've reached out to some DirecTV contacts to see if I can get some information.


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## tonydi (Mar 21, 2003)

litzdog911 said:


> This is clearly a Tivo-specific issue. I've reached out to some DirecTV contacts to see if I can get some information.


Yeah, tell them to hurry up and "reset the locals". 

Thanks for all your efforts, I really appreciate it.


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## mrlinux11 (Apr 6, 2006)

Well I am having the same issue in Detroit Metro Area. 

1) I have 2 Tivos of different ages and they both have issues on local channels
2) I have replaced the hard drive in one just to be sure and no luck
3) They both have different versions of the software
4) One has had an larger drive installed and one is stock
5) I tried a basic receiver and it does not stutter
6) Also tried a DirectTV DVR and it does not stutter 

Conclusions for me are it is not the Sat Dish/multiswitch/cable and it is not the Tivo itself.


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## hdog (Nov 10, 2002)

Chicago area, dsr708 on 6.4a *wasn't* stuttering before when the 6.2a 708's were.
Now, the 6.4a is stuttering. Mostly seen on NBC, channel 5 in Chicago. Last night,
the Emmy's on Fox, channel 32 were unwatchable due to stuttering. 

I have been away from these units for awhile, so have not been analyzing this as much as in my previous posts. R10's in our building (condo with MDU providing our DirecTV service) report stuttering also.

Thanks to all those continuing to post, and trying to get DirecTV involved. Also wonder if dvrupgrade/weaknees might be interested in investigating this, since they still are selling 6.2a/6.4a software and SD hardware.


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## mrlinux11 (Apr 6, 2006)

Well I just talked with direct tv and according to them, the older Tivo units do not have access to the 103 satellite just the 101 and it does not have the bandwidth to support that. I have thought about this and disagree I have an old standard Receiver and it does not suffer this issue.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

The response you got is a bit off - the 103 satellite carries the locals in HD, but you are getting the SD version from 101. I don't think bandwidth issues would cause stuttering, but there could be a signal problem. However, if the stuttering "moves" when you play the section again, then that could indicate a problem in the TiVo box.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

mrlinux11 said:


> Well I just talked with direct tv and according to them, the older Tivo units do not have access to the 103 satellite just the 101 and it does not have the bandwidth to support that. I have thought about this and disagree I have an old standard Receiver and it does not suffer this issue.


That has nothing to do with this issue.


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## mrlinux11 (Apr 6, 2006)

litzdog911 said:


> That has nothing to do with this issue.


 I agree which is making me think about going to Dish TV.


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## mrlinux11 (Apr 6, 2006)

stevel said:


> The response you got is a bit off - the 103 satellite carries the locals in HD, but you are getting the SD version from 101. I don't think bandwidth issues would cause stuttering, but there could be a signal problem. However, if the stuttering "moves" when you play the section again, then that could indicate a problem in the TiVo box.


It continues to stutter in the same spot when you rewind and it is only the local channels that this happens, I have watched hours of TV on non local and not one stutter. I can not watch 10 minutes on the locals without stuttering


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

mrlinux11 said:


> I agree which is making me think about going to Dish TV.


Ummmm, ok?


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## tonydi (Mar 21, 2003)

dwellar said:


> I would expect that if the scene is repeating, the show run-time would expand, and at the end of the day something would be obviously out of time.


And that's exactly what happens. If a particular channel is doing it often enough and you leave that channel tuned in, you'll eventually find that you'll be watching the buffer. I think the most I've noticed is about 2 mins behind real time.


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## rumpleteazer (Jan 6, 2008)

tonydi said:


> And that's exactly what happens. If a particular channel is doing it often enough and you leave that channel tuned in, you'll eventually find that you'll be watching the buffer. I think the most I've noticed is about 2 mins behind real time.


You know, I think you're correct. I was watching the football game the other day and I was pretty sure I was watching current time. But I'd hit the jump-30 second button out of habit and it would move forward. I just assumed that I had used back-8 and didn't remember.


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## pizzaguy541 (Nov 24, 2007)

litzdog911 said:


> This is clearly a Tivo-specific issue. I've reached out to some DirecTV contacts to see if I can get some information.


Thanks litzdog911.

Any information that you can find out would be appreciated. This stuttering is getting very annoying and my standard receiver (D11) seems to be unaffected.


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## GusMan (Nov 16, 2004)

In my case, NBC and WGN in Chicago are getting worse... way worse. Last night, WGN was pretty much unwatchable.

Stuttering happens even if I go over the same section of the program again.

Without going back through the thread, has anyone tried a fresh OS load on their Tivo's? I might try that now that I found a couple spare drives.

I really dont want to go to DirecTV's DVR setup, but if this continues, then I might not have a choice. I would hate to think that this is some sort of conspiracy theory to get rid of old receivers and to add lease fees to my bill.


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## lmv (Oct 4, 2007)

I have stuttering on my tivo running the newest software and it is not hacked. Only on the locals. Started a couple of days ago but it was only 1 time an hour or so but today it has gotten serious. Same as the back in July which stopped and hasn't been a problem until now - worse when graphics are up. BTW it does it on live tv and recorded.

I am in Colorado


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## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

Last night I recorded two shows on locals, one had extreme stuttering and the other had none. Very weird.


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## Greyhawk68 (Jun 17, 2002)

Just wanted to say that the same thing is happening to my in-laws DirecTiVo too. They are standard def only and are south of Chicago. It also appears to only happen on the local stations.

They called it in and the contractor tech they sent out said that this is a known problem but it's not being acknowledged by DirecTV yet.

The fact that I came here and found this thread immediately leads me to believe it is a real issue.


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## tonydi (Mar 21, 2003)

Just wanted to add that I'm now seeing some of the pausing in recordings from my locals. I had previously posted that recordings didn't show any of the pauses I'd see when watching live so I don't know if that means that things are getting worse and finally showing up or what.

I would like to encourage everyone seeing this problem to call DTV and report it. In the past when they've messed up our Tivos, it took awhile to get on their radar so the more people that call, the faster they'll take notice.


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## dwellar (Apr 9, 2006)

Having the stuttering in the playback as well as in real time could be a consequence of how the tivo processes the incoming signal. Could be that the stuttering is caused during the decoding phase. Then the data is sent to the display and written to the disk. So it would be in both places.

If this turns out to be a Tivo hardware/software problem, I won't like the solution. It would likely mean a new download. I want to stay on 6.2a due to MRV. Hopefully, the solution might be different stream processing on DTV's end. I think this is reasonable since only locals are affected. Non-local streams are OK. Just make the local streams match the non-local streams. Hear me DTV.


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## GusMan (Nov 16, 2004)

Right now, for my Chicago locals, WGN and NBC are the worst. Last night, SVU was pretty much unwatchable.

While I agree that I think we all need to call and complain, I sincerely think that the recommendation from DTV is to upgrade to their DVR product.


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## Sueeliz (Sep 22, 2011)

I have been having the stuttering problem for several months now. It started on detroit ch 2 (fox news) and was intermittent, but is now happening on all the locals. It has been particularly bad this week. Some of the channels have become unwatchable at worst and very irritating at best.

I have an rca dvr40 with a 160G hd. OS is 6.4a. I am reluctant to contact Directv. They usually just tell me the equipment is "too old". I was glad to see that others, particularly in the mid-west, are experiencing the same problem. I hope there is a solution.


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## bluedograbbit2 (May 26, 2008)

Well they are telling me I am going to lose my locals completely on the 28th if I don't upgrade my equipment but they haven't rolled out the new tivo for directv so I guess I am going to have to go with cable because their Dvr's are not worth having.


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## red3213 (Sep 22, 2011)

I too have been having this problem. DTV tech came out, installed new dish, switch and lines. Still having issue. Finally raised enough hell with Customer service that they are giving me 1 HD DVR 1 SD DVR and 2 SD receivers for $115. Not free but better than the $400 that they wanted to charge me!

I am surprised no one has suggested that this could be a bug that DTV planted to the old Tivo units in an effort to push there software powered DVRs out the door before they release the new TIVO's. Why else would this only effect the TIVO units only?

Makes me think i should cancel my "deal" (install scheduled for Monday) and hold out for the new TIVO.


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## Marrelli (Jan 12, 2007)

I'm having the same problem with Cincinnati locals.


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## bluedograbbit2 (May 26, 2008)

It has been 3 years waiting for the new directv tivo and they keep blaming it on tivo and at least if you contact tivo the said they thought Oct but I lose my locals before then and with no release date I can't wait.


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## mchappell (Jul 1, 2008)

+1

2 r10's, both stuttering on Chicago locals.

Was trying to get one of them to 6.4 to see if it helps, but not sure if it is possible, or will make a difference. It's had no phone line for a few years.

Will it ever be able to upgrade itself to 6.4, or is it way past the point that it is possible (i.e. the servers it dials into no longer have/trigger that update)?

Mark


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## GusMan (Nov 16, 2004)

bluedograbbit2 said:


> Well they are telling me I am going to lose my locals completely on the 28th if I don't upgrade my equipment...


Seriously? They are telling you that?

Can someone else confirm if this is really the case?


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## bluedograbbit2 (May 26, 2008)

GusMan said:


> Seriously? They are telling you that?
> 
> Can someone else confirm if this is really the case?


It depends on your area when if you don't upgrade you will lose your locals. I live in a rural area and cannot get the locals even with an OTA so that's why I am stuck. And Directv does not want to help with the Tivos at all.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

bluedograbbit2 said:


> .... they thought Oct but I lose my locals before then and with no release date I can't wait.


Where are you located? Perhaps you're in an area with SD locals beamed from the 72.5º satellite? Those markets are being transitioned to MPEG4 equipment.


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## Whipl50 (Jan 31, 2006)

Same as everyone else here, locals are pretty much unwatchable now. I'm going to call DirecTV and ***** and see what I can get out of them. I don't necessarily need HD in the bedroom, but I'm not paying to upgrade my DVR. I own my SD DVR's outright as I'm sure everyone else with a DirecTivo unit does.

On the phone with DirecTV now. They say they are going to try to fix this with a software update. My unit is Zippered, so that's not gonna work.


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## bluedograbbit2 (May 26, 2008)

litzdog911 said:


> Where are you located? Perhaps you're in an area with SD locals beamed from the 72.5º satellite? Those markets are being transitioned to MPEG4 equipment.


I live in TN. I know that is what the issue is because I have 2 sat and they are upgrading and want me to get their DVR I don't want it


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## hdog (Nov 10, 2002)

I added a new post on the other site about the stuttering, saying there is lots of
activity over here.

I sent an email to [email protected] to get their view.

I emailed the Technical Director at NBC5 in Chicago ( he helped solve a
problem in the past with RCN - a Chicago cable supplier) Just wanted him to know about the issue and that his signal is pretty much unwatchable for us.

Will be calling DirecTV tomorrow. Are there any keywords we should be using with Directv? such as 'stuttering on directv tivos on local channels?' Any other suggestions on how to unify our compaint?


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## lmv (Oct 4, 2007)

Stuttering seems to have stopped here in Colorado
All of my shows recorded today are ok and watched the news at 6:00 for the last hour and no stuttering....


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

bluedograbbit2 said:


> I live in TN. I know that is what the issue is because I have 2 sat and they are upgrading and want me to get their DVR I don't want it


Then you won't receive your local channels any more. You could wait for the new HD DirecTivo. It will receive your local channels. But who knows when it will actually be available.


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## GusMan (Nov 16, 2004)

Still stuttering in Chicago, but it appears to be a little better... still not right. Ill wait and see what happens when I watch a few things recorded between today and the rest of the weekend.


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## hdog (Nov 10, 2002)

@Gusman - I agree, things seem better, but not gone.

I am still seeing a stutter today, Saturday, on WYCC Ch. 20 on 6.2a, but *not* on 6.4a.
Other channels seem better. Like you, waiting and seeing.


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## tonydi (Mar 21, 2003)

Definitely *not* getting better here, in fact, I'm seeing more instances where the stutters are grouped together. It's not unusual to get 3 or 4 in a couple of seconds now, whereas before they'd normally be single stutters spread out over minutes.


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## hdog (Nov 10, 2002)

Interesting. Things get kind of better in Chicago and Colorado, and are still not
good in California. Seems to point to content of local signal and/or something that
the DirecTV uplink is doing to it.


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## tonydi (Mar 21, 2003)

Or maybe there's more than one issue involved here. Over on the DTV forum there are quite a few people chiming in on this subject who don't have the same sort of equipment we all have.


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## pizzaguy541 (Nov 24, 2007)

lmv said:


> Stuttering seems to have stopped here in Colorado
> All of my shows recorded today are ok and watched the news at 6:00 for the last hour and no stuttering....


The stuttering seems to have stopped for me watching the Detroit locals. I have a RCA DVR80 running on hacked 6.4a.

I've checked my live buffer and I'm no longer viewing behind the current time.


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## drmanny3 (Mar 5, 2002)

You may recall from several of my posts that I am trying to get three working Hr10-250 units for my parents. We had at one time three units but two of them bit the dust. I have purchased about 4 additional units getting 1 or 1 1/2 good units out of all of them. Currently one unit that works correctly is going through a period where it constantly reboots. I recall several months ago that there was a problem and then a fix was developed and deployed by Direct TV and Tivo. I have since put this unit into service. Prior to that I had not been used for at least 2 years. The software is 6.3 Any ideas on what I can do to stop the reboot? Otherwise it works just find.

Unit two: I initially put a card in by going through the process of ordering it from Direct TV. It worked for a while and then began to freeze for a second then work again. Then the card stopped being read as current. Direct TV sent out another card and now there is no longer a message saying the card is not current. However the picture will still break up every few seconds to a minute. It then seems to catch up and everything works again. I tried to see if it was one of the tuners. So I started to record one station where the problem occurred. I then tried to watch another channel thinking this would require the other tuner. Still no change. There are some programs that were recorded by the previous owner. They play back without a problem. Any ideas? The software is 6.4 on this one.

Manny


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## kgm32 (Jun 1, 2006)

tonydi said:


> Or maybe there's more than one issue involved here. Over on the DTV forum there are quite a few people chiming in on this subject who don't have the same sort of equipment we all have.


I have the same issue in Detroit locals only on 2 R10s and a HDVR2 none have been modded. Could it be an engineered glitch. Gets people to buy a new DTV box as Tivo is no longer an option. One less fee to Tivo and a bunch of new 2 year commitments.


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## tonydi (Mar 21, 2003)

I like conspiracy theories as much as the next guy, but if that's really what's going on then DTV is totally bungling the opportunity they are trying to create. 

So far nobody has suggested that I'd be better off with new equipment, in fact, most CSR's seem pretty clueless about it. Only after a lot of time on hold has anyone come back and said they found something that's relevant and that they are working on it. 

None of them have a clue that it seems to only affect old DTivo's and we've only come to that conclusion because of comparing all these reports online. I don't think they've got enough data to make that same assessment.


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## kgm32 (Jun 1, 2006)

tonydi said:


> I like conspiracy theories as much as the next guy, but if that's really what's going on then DTV is totally bungling the opportunity they are trying to create.
> 
> So far nobody has suggested that I'd be better off with new equipment, in fact, most CSR's seem pretty clueless about it. Only after a lot of time on hold has anyone come back and said they found something that's relevant and that they are working on it.
> 
> None of them have a clue that it seems to only affect old DTivo's and we've only come to that conclusion because of comparing all these reports online. I don't think they've got enough data to make that same assessment.


Ah but the basis of any conspiracy theory is make them come to there own conclusion. My initial thought was old TiVo box was dying and may need to be replaced. Had I not discovered the same issue on multiple boxes I MAY have just gone ahead and done just that. How many others have already done so? 

BTW....my wife reported it did not happen all last night during "Dancing with the Stars" so perhaps something has been resolved?


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## GusMan (Nov 16, 2004)

One observation from the other day that I have not seen before.

The stuttering appears to be better.... until the picture displays a "darker" picture. Think bedroom scene, nighttime scene, etc. 

Im not sure if there is a perfect correlation, but I am going to keep an eye out for it to see if it is indeed the case.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

I heard back from one of my DirecTV contacts. They're aware of the problem. It's broadcast-related and they're working on a fix. Hopefully soon. I've asked for clarification on what they mean by "broadcast-related".


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## tonydi (Mar 21, 2003)

litzdog911 said:


> I heard back from one of my DirecTV contacts. They're aware of the problem. It's broadcast-related and they're working on a fix. Hopefully soon. I've asked for clarification on what they mean by "broadcast-related".


More importantly, let's hope that fix isn't going to require a software update to our boxes! 

Thanks for continuing to push for info, I'm sure we all really appreciate the effort.


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## htroberts (Jul 7, 2003)

litzdog911 said:


> I heard back from one of my DirecTV contacts. They're aware of the problem. It's broadcast-related and they're working on a fix. Hopefully soon. I've asked for clarification on what they mean by "broadcast-related".


Could you also ask if they have an expected resolve-by date?


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## htroberts (Jul 7, 2003)

GusMan said:


> Hi All,
> About a month ago, I started to get a type of stuttering on my local channels. (I am in the Chicago area.) This started happening on both of my Hughes S2 DTivo boxes at the same time. All other channels appear to be fine.
> 
> [...]
> ...


We've been having possibly similar issues for a week, but with more severe consequences. In retrospect, this reminds me of some problem with WRAL's program stream several years ago. DirecTV never really acknowledged that issue, but did eventually fix it.

Our HDVR2 shows lots of what I would have called pixelation and/or compression artifacts, but only on local channels. Since I've read your post, I'd call "stuttering" an apt description.

Anyway, sometimes it's just pixelation, but occasionally that progresses into a picture freeze, a gray-screen hang, or a reboot.

At first, I assumed it was dying hardware, which was a bummer--I had hoped the box would keep working until the replacement DirecTiVo was available (although the HR34 is also interesting--I wish there was a reasonable expectation that DirecTV would develop a TiVo release for it).

I kickstart-57'ed the box with no change, but it took a few days before I realized it only seemed to be happening with local channels. NBC seems to be the worst--it will only stay up for 15-30 minutes at a time if either tuner is on the NBC affiliate.

FYI, I'm in Durham, NC. Locals are WNCN-17, WRAL-5, and WTVD-11. Not sure if it's also happening with WUNC-4 or WRAZ-50 because those aren't in our typical weekday recording/watching schedule.

I've temporarily unmarked our locals in "channels I receive" to see if the HDVR2 stays running for a long enough period of time to think the problem is strictly with local channels. I've not called DirecTV yet, but will probably do so now.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

htroberts said:


> Could you also ask if they have an expected resolve-by date?


Yes, I've asked. No word yet.


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## jaydro (Oct 19, 2003)

Also in Durham, also my DSR7000 has been rebooting a lot this week. Similar to what htroberts is seeing, but I would add that mine also rebooted while on WRAZ-50 Tuesday, and curiously for most of that 8 pm hour there was a Technical Difficulties screen up--and it rebooted when programming had been restored.....

Yes, this does feel like that program stream issue from a couple of years ago.


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## htroberts (Jul 7, 2003)

jaydro said:


> ... I would add that mine also rebooted while on WRAZ-50 Tuesday, and curiously for most of that 8 pm hour there was a Technical Difficulties screen up--and it rebooted when programming had been restored.....


WRAL had the same 'technical difficulties' screen at what was most likely the same time (no surprise, since WRAL and WRAZ share operations), and our problems also started after the signal was restored.

I reached one of the local stations' engineering departments, who contacted DirecTV and reported that DirecTV acknowledges the problem and says they're working on it.

It's very frustrating to me that the company is aware of a problem, but either doesn't tell the customer-facing people, or keeps them from acknowledging a known issue to a customer. (as a stock-holder, I'd be pissed, as well, since they offered to send a technician to my house to check all the cables or potentially replace my receiver)

[as an aside, have companies always held their customers in contempt, or is this a new phenomenon? it seems very prevalent today, and to get worse as the company gets larger--I don't ever get this from any store where I walk in and the person I hand cash to is the owner]

The station engineer's speculation, which matches my own, was that this was the result of some "upgrade" in their signal processing stream, but he also said that experience suggests it will take DirecTV some time to track it down and fix it and described several similar issues, not all with DirecTV, that each affected small minorities of viewers.


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## waynebo (Jun 17, 2010)

I've had this stuttering on local channels (seems like since the begining of this year.... maybe longer) with a samsung series 2 (6.2a usb mrv). Thought maybe my box went bad and wished I hadn't given away a Phillips series 2 to my brother in-law. 2 months ago he decided to use it.... it is stock... (direct tv made him get a new card too?) and his local channels skip too.

We're in NW of washington state (no OTA reception for 4,5,7,9, but I do get two 13s.. one in hd on clear days). Hope Direct tv does fix this because it is a federal thing.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

waynebo said:


> I've had this stuttering on local channels (seems like since the begining of this year.... maybe longer) with a samsung series 2 (6.2a usb mrv). Thought maybe my box went bad and wished I hadn't given away a Phillips series 2 to my brother in-law. 2 months ago he decided to use it.... it is stock... (direct tv made him get a new card too?) and his local channels skip too.
> 
> We're in NW of washington state (no OTA reception for 4,5,7,9, but I do get two 13s.. one in hd on clear days). Hope Direct tv does fix this because it is a federal thing.


I think your problem is something else. I'm in Seattle and experience no stuttering with my DirecTV on our local channels. But I have a stock (no mods) R10 with v6.4a software.


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## Whipl50 (Jan 31, 2006)

Not so much stuttering this morning in the Chicago market, but massive macro blocking instead.


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## richr69 (Aug 9, 2005)

Same here i.e. macro blocking in Chicago.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

According to one of my DirecTV contacts, the root cause of the Tivo "stuttering" problem should now be solved. 

Perhaps there's something else going on in Chicago causing the "macroblocking"?


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## tonydi (Mar 21, 2003)

Still stuttering here.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

tonydi said:


> Still stuttering here.


Might be time to explore alternate causes. Hard drive? Reception?


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## tonydi (Mar 21, 2003)

No, I've already eliminated my hardware. Happens on all 4 of my units, swapped multiswitch, all signal strengths look good, etc.


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## surfboy500 (Feb 9, 2002)

I am in Bay Area and have terrible stutter on locals as well as certain cable channels like BBCA and MSNBC.

I have 3 direct tivo SD all hacked with 6.2 and multi room working

This was first noticed around April and I have been pulling my hair out. Thought it was trees at first, then multiswitch, then discs. 

At last i found this thread as my google for DirectTV and stutter did not show anything up to this time. So I thought it was my unique problem. Its a joy to find I am not the only one with this.

Is there a thread on DTV forum? I havent found it. Do you have the link?

Have others in Cali found stutter on cable channels too?

Has anyone found a reason or solution. It is mega irritating and I am not interested in Direct TV upgrade offers unless it has a tivo gui.


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## htroberts (Jul 7, 2003)

htroberts said:


> The station engineer [speculated that it would] take DirecTV some time to track it down and fix it [...]


Just to close the loop on my own experience, my trouble with Raleigh/Durham locals seems mostly to have been resolved up by 30/Sept, with a couple of recurrences on 3/Oct, and none since then. The HDVR2 seemed particularly vulnerable to the hang & reboot when tuned to NBC-17, for some reason.

Looking forward to getting my THR-34...


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## tonydi (Mar 21, 2003)

surfboy500 said:


> Is there a thread on DTV forum? I havent found it. Do you have the link?


I started a thread over there about a month ago....
http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=10935717

I haven't seen the same stuttering effect on anything but locals. A friend across town has the same symptoms, old DTivos, locals only.


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## wetchemistry (Dec 4, 2010)

Whatever the problem, here in the Chicago land area it has disappeared for my hacked DSR-704. To all of the "experts" I'm pretty sure it was on DirecTV's end.


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## surfboy500 (Feb 9, 2002)

After 6 months of painful morning shows (GMA and Today), for the first time today Friday I got NO stuttering. DARE I hope that it has been fixed.

Will we ever get a clear explanation from Direct TV of what caused it. I must have spent hours of time and about $250 making sure it was not due to my hardware, alignment, etc etc


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

surfboy500 said:


> ....
> 
> Will we ever get a clear explanation from Direct TV of what caused it. ....


No.


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## hdog (Nov 10, 2002)

My Chicago status seems to be stuttering on neither 6.4a nor 6.2a. (DSR708's)

Anyone in Chicago have any problem on 6.2a now?


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## tonydi (Mar 21, 2003)

I _*think*_ it's gone. I've been watching live locals for about 90 mins now and (hoping not to jinx it) I haven't heard even one stutter.

I'll remain cautiously optimistic that this holds. :up:


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## dwellar (Apr 9, 2006)

Another confirmation - My Chicago locals have stopped stuttering too. So refreshing! Of course, it took a while to cycle through to some recent recordings before I saw the difference.


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## gsjenkins (Jun 12, 2005)

A little late in noting, but another confirmation here. Everything is back to normal. Thank you to everyone involved in resolving this issue.


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## Tucker2 (Dec 6, 2006)

--


Tucker2 said:


> I also have experienced audio stuttering on mostly the local channels in the St. Louis area.
> 
> HR10-250 hacked, running 6.4a-01-2-357.
> 
> It's been happening for about the last week or so.


Seems like for the past couple of weeks the problem posted above on 9-17-2011 has gone away for my St. Louis channels.

Now where's my new DTV-TiVo???


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

litzdog911 said:


> According to one of my DirecTV contacts, the root cause of the Tivo "stuttering" problem should now be solved.


Do you know whether this is a fix being sent out to the DTivos over phone or satellite?

If so, is the fix is still being sent?

On a new installation of a virgin 6.4a on an HR10-250, how long will it be before the fix takes?

I am seeing it pretty consistently on a new install. On HiDef OTA only. The stuttering is not repeated in the same places on playback. After a reboot, symptoms disappear for 24 hours or so, then recur. Have swapped hard drives, power supplies, even tried several different HR10s in the same environment, all with the same result.

The problem is lessened considerably by disabling the second tuner (just keeping it tuned to an empty channel). Also maybe lessened by reducing output to 720p, though I haven't done this trial rigorously enough to say for sure. It seems like the hard drive "can't keep up" with the playback for some reason; the file itself (whether recorded or just playing back the buffer) still stutters, but not in exactly the same places.

I have not had a phone line attached (after the initial setup) because this is a Vonage household and that's a pain. But if the fix is still being sent I'll rig up something to keep an active phone line; I'd just like to get a feeling for how long.

It is faintly possible I have a handful of bad hard drives, coincidentally; but it sure sounds like, and looks like, this old problem.

Thanks


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

This thread was about locals sent over the satellite, not OTA. No software fixes to TiVo boxes have been made for this.


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