# 20.4.6 issue?



## leeherman (Nov 5, 2007)

I apparently received the 20.4.6 update overnight and now I'm having a few issues with my Roamio.

This morning I turned on my system, where the TV and TiVo are connected to my receiver by HDMI, and no audio. After changing channels, which has worked in the past, restarting my receiver, and switching inputs, I finally rebooted the TiVo. It took several reboots, because after the first reboot I was unable to tune to live TV at all due to a cablecard error, and after the first reboot I was getting pixilation. By the second reboot everything seemed OK.

Now it seems that when I turn on my system after it's been off for a while, I get no signal to my receiver unless I hit pause and play, then thru TiVo seems to wake up, and when it does wake up I have no audio and have to repeat the multiple reboot process again. My power saving settings are off?

Anyone here experiencing issues like this since the latest software update? This is incredibly frustrating since everything was fine before the update.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

LH


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## celtic pride (Nov 8, 2005)

A couple years or so ago i had a similar problem ,I had to disconnect the hdmi cable from the receiver and both the tv and tivo ,then i reconnected the cables and that solved my problem.I think your losing the handshake of the cables.


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## iconoclast (Oct 27, 2014)

Maybe this thread is the same issue?
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=512932


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## leeherman (Nov 5, 2007)

iconoclast said:


> Maybe this thread is the same issue?
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=512932


Probably not.

I've occasionally found myself without audio when turning on the TiVo but changing the channel always restored it. That didn't work this time, plus the odd standby 'feature' and the pixilation which all started this morning leads me to believe this is a software issue.

LH


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## leeherman (Nov 5, 2007)

I just called Tivo support and couldn't believe what I heard.

According to the agent, Tivo does not officially support passing Tivo output through an A/V receiver, so they couldn't provide support.

I explained that I've done this successfully through four different versions of HD Tivo and never had an issue until the current software update.

I'll be contacting Tivo by email, and if this isn't resolved I will be dumping four Tivos in place of (shudder) cable company DVRs. I'm getting tired of having to reboot my Tivo to use it every damn time I turn on my TV.

LH


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## gamo62 (Oct 12, 2002)

Try upgrading your cables to the Redmere technology. Monoprice.com has great prices on HDMI Redmere cables.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

leeherman said:


> I'll be contacting Tivo by email, and if this isn't resolved I will be dumping four Tivos in place of (shudder) cable company DVRs. I'm getting tired of having to reboot my Tivo to use it every damn time I turn on my TV.


I would first try new cables. Or just switch to component plus optical? Heck it would it be easier to just buy a new receiver and see if that solves the problem. Maybe in your case the answer is no, but I would try all three of those steps first.

I've never had a problem, even after the 20.4.6 upgrade, with my Roamio Plus and Yamaha 673 using HDMI, then going to my tv via HDMI. Plus my TivoHD and Sony Blu-ray player.

However... the Pixelation issue you are experiencing is strange. I wonder if the software upgrade didn't complete successfully and you have corrupt software on your tivo. How to fix this?

I think if you pop a virgin hard drive in your tivo it will autoinitialize with tivo software and then go fetch the latest version. Heck, maybe pull your current drive, wipe it, and re-install it. Or maybe just try doing a Clear and Delete Everything from the Help->Restart or Reset menu. If you plan to return 4 tivos, you might as well try this first.


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## Dsyst (Apr 4, 2014)

I'm also having issues with Roamio Pro after update. If I turn off the TV and receiver the next time I turn them on pink hued screen and no audio. Rebooted first time it happened everything fine. Next time I cycled tv and receiver power greeted with the same thing. Pulled out then reinserted HDMI and worked fine, so at least I didn't have to reboot. Switched cables, switched HDMI ports, if I turn it off, back to pink screen and no audio. So far, reinserting the HDMI cable on the Romio fixes it everytime but this is is annoying to say the least, especially since before the update I only had occasional handshake issues.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

Dsyst said:


> I'm also having issues with Roamio Pro after update. If I turn off the TV and receiver the next time I turn them on pink hued screen and no audio. Rebooted first time it happened everything fine. Next time I cycled tv and receiver power greeted with the same thing. Pulled out then reinserted HDMI and worked fine, so at least I didn't have to reboot. Switched cables, switched HDMI ports, if I turn it off, back to pink screen and no audio. So far, reinserting the HDMI cable on the Romio fixes it everytime but this is is annoying to say the least, especially since before the update I only had occasional handshake issues.


This is only a SWAG, so take it as nothing more than a guess. But I wonder if something in the new power saving mode(s) are causing a problem with the HDCP handshake when resuming full power. I don't have 20.4.6 yet, so I can't check, but if there is some form of "disable" on the power saving, why don't you try that? Maybe unplug both the Tivo and the Receiver and then try starting them both up again. Just a thought.

As for dumping your four Tivos and replacing them with cable company DVRs, I'm really not sure how that's going to make things better for you!


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

leeherman said:


> According to the agent, Tivo does not officially support passing Tivo output through an A/V receiver, so they couldn't provide support.LH


That does sound like total BS. I've been passing my Tivo through my receiver since my first S2ST. I could have sworn somewhere there is documentation that even explains how to do this. Maybe on tivo.com?

I'm curious, have you tried connecting your Roamio directly to your tv via HDMI. Are there any problems when you do this? The possibility of corrupt software I mentioned should show pixelation via direct connect too.

I have seen, on another setup with no tv involved, failure to get any sound. This was with a upscaling dvd player connected directly via hdmi to a tv. It was uncommon to have to powercycle the dvd player multiple times to get sound. It's an hdmi handshake issue. No real way to solve. Some implentations of hdmi don't work particularly well together. I don't know why 20.4.6 would have altered this.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

The OP seems to says power save is off, but he finishes the sentence with a question mark, so I'm not so sure.

In Settings->Devices->Power Saving Settings there are four options.
off
low
medium
high

I have mine off. That was the default, AFAIK, with the software update.


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## Dsyst (Apr 4, 2014)

Anyone know what these power save modes do? And why are there 4 settings. Either save power or don't, I have no clue what High power saving does vs low power saving!


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

Dsyst said:


> Anyone know what these power save modes do? And why are there 4 settings. Either save power or don't, I have no clue what High power saving does vs low power saving!


They are explained in the menu.

Off (no power saving)

Low The DVR will enter Standby if it hasn't been used for 4 hours. Tivo Suggestions WILL be recorded.

Medium Same as Low but Suggestions WILL NOT be recorded.

High Same as Medium but the time is 2 hours.

Regardless of the setting, Scheduled recordings, downloads and transfers are not affected.


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## Dsyst (Apr 4, 2014)

Thanks, my laziness is noted.


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## Dsyst (Apr 4, 2014)

In my defense, my girlfriend is watching a movie, and she loves when I come in and F with the menus!


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Dsyst said:


> In my defense, my girlfriend is watching a movie, and she loves when I come in and F with the menus!


"I just have to check something honey. It will only be a second, I promise!"

Yep, been there, done that. 

Scott


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## DigitalDawn (Apr 26, 2009)

leeherman said:


> I just called Tivo support and couldn't believe what I heard.
> 
> According to the agent, Tivo does not officially support passing Tivo output through an A/V receiver, so they couldn't provide support.
> 
> ...


By any chance are you using an Onkyo/Integra or a Pioneer AV receiver?


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## sakaike (Jan 22, 2002)

Just to be clear, TiVo saying they won't support pass-through through a receiver doesn't mean it won't work, but rather that they won't assist you with troubleshooting such a set-up. Still sucks, I know, but thought the clarification might be helpful.

As to the OP's problem, I haven't seen it personally on my set-up, passing the TiVo through my Pio Elite receiver, but as others have noted up thread, this is likely a situation of the TiVo, receiver and TV not playing well together with respect to HDMI handshakes.

When I had a Premiere, my Onkyo receiver displayed exactly the same behavior as the OP with that TiVo. It was an extraordinarily vexing and frustrating experience. Upon reading several threads on here, I replaced the receiver and everything worked fantastic immediately. I've never looked back.

So again, as advised by a few folks upthread, I'd recommend Redmere cables, a different receiver and/or direct input to the TV to troubleshoot before deciding to dump TiVo and go to cable STBs.

Another contributor could be your power-up sequence. Ordinarily, you want to power-up in "reverse" order: TV, then receiver, then Tivo (if on standby), with a small lag in between. With my Harmony remote, this is easily programmable, and also might be part of a solid solution.


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## leeherman (Nov 5, 2007)

justen_m said:


> That does sound like total BS. I've been passing my Tivo through my receiver since my first S2ST. I could have sworn somewhere there is documentation that even explains how to do this. Maybe on tivo.com?
> 
> I'm curious, have you tried connecting your Roamio directly to your tv via HDMI. Are there any problems when you do this? The possibility of corrupt software I mentioned should show pixelation via direct connect too.
> 
> I have seen, on another setup with no tv involved, failure to get any sound. This was with a upscaling dvd player connected directly via hdmi to a tv. It was uncommon to have to powercycle the dvd player multiple times to get sound. It's an hdmi handshake issue. No real way to solve. Some implentations of hdmi don't work particularly well together. I don't know why 20.4.6 would have altered this.


I haven't tried a direct connection to the TV yet. I will, but it's obviously not a solution.

My bedroom Premier hasn't received the update yet, and I'm concerned because it too is going through a receiver.



justen_m said:


> The OP seems to says power save is off, but he finishes the sentence with a question mark, so I'm not so sure.
> 
> <SNIP>


Sorry, the sentence should have ended in a period. My fat fingers at work.

My power saving settings are off.



DigitalDawn said:


> By any chance are you using an Onkyo/Integra or a Pioneer AV receiver?


Yamaha, probably around five years old, and until the software update never an issue using taking output from any of four different models of HD Tivo connected to it at one time or another.



sakaike said:


> Just to be clear, TiVo saying they won't support pass-through through a receiver doesn't mean it won't work, but rather that they won't assist you with troubleshooting such a set-up. Still sucks, I know, but thought the clarification might be helpful.
> 
> As to the OP's problem, I haven't seen it personally on my set-up, passing the TiVo through my Pio Elite receiver, but as others have noted up thread, this is likely a situation of the TiVo, receiver and TV not playing well together with respect to HDMI handshakes.
> 
> ...


You are correct, they will not provide support. What burns me though, is that this has clearly worked for me for seven years and stops working with one software update. I was hoping for a more positive answer.

I will swap my HDMI cable between the Tivo and receiver tonight, but I find it hard to believe that's the problem as it's worked fine until the software update. There's no chance I would consider spending money on a new A/V receiver as a result of this problem as it's worked flawlessly until this weekend. I did try swapping HDMI inputs with my AppleTV on the receiver in case the DVR HDMI port was getting flaky, and it didn't matter. My AppleTV and other devices are working fine.

Your comment about the power-up sequence is intriguing, though. My Tivo is not set for standby, but I will tinker with the startup sequence tonight. I use a Logitech Harmony remote and perhaps there's a workaround until Tivo (hopefully) looks into this matter.

As an additional point of data, this morning I powered up the system about a half hour before I usually do as I usually watch a few minutes of news before I leave for work, and had the same problem I've been having since the software update. I unplugged and reconnected the HDMI cable from the Tivo to the receiver which immediately brought back the video but still no sound. At that point I rebooted the Tivo to get sound back.

Wondering if the Tivo was going into standby regardless of how I have it set up, I decided to turn off the system and turn it back on when I was ready to watch it, around twenty minutes later. Same problem, so if it's going into standby, it's doing so far quicker than the minimum standby setting, which should not matter since my standby is set to off.

I'm VERY frustrated now.

LH


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

It is easy to tell the status of a Roamio: if it is in standby then the front power light will be off.

The incidence of HDMI handshake issues are increasing, not only for TiVos but for several DVR providers that have introduced new models in the last 2 years of so, such as DirecTV, Comcast and Verizon. I assume they are all using the same HDMI chipset. Onkyo and Pioneer receivers are most frequently the problem but I wouldn't be surprised if TiVo, in trying to work around the problems with those models introduced some other issue. We only run HDMI through one AV receiver (a Pioneer) and that one is working fine. The only thing I think of that is different than leeherman's setup is that we use the TiVo remote (which turns on the TV first and then the receiver).


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## leeherman (Nov 5, 2007)

Diana Collins said:


> It is easy to tell the status of a Roamio: if it is in standby then the front power light will be off.
> 
> The incidence of HDMI handshake issues are increasing, not only for TiVos but for several DVR providers that have introduced new models in the last 2 years of so, such as DirecTV, Comcast and Verizon. I assume they are all using the same HDMI chipset. Onkyo and Pioneer receivers are most frequently the problem but I wouldn't be surprised if TiVo, in trying to work around the problems with those models introduced some other issue. We only run HDMI through one AV receiver (a Pioneer) and that one is working fine. The only thing I think of that is different than leeherman's setup is that we use the TiVo remote (which turns on the TV first and then the receiver).


Diana,

Based on what you said about the power light I have no reason to believe my Tivo is going into standby.

Regarding sakaike's comment, which you also alluded to, I will also try changing the order in which I bring up my system. My receiver does go on before the TV.

I heard back from Tivo support this morning, and they're recommending I go HDMI from the Tivo right to the TV for video and use the TOSLINK optical out to the receiver for audio. I don't particularly want to have to make this change, but it might be the only way this setup works as intended if a power-on sequence doesn't work. I have to dig up a TOSLINK cable to test...I know I have them somewhere but I haven't needed them in years.

Thanks!

LH


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

I have always run the HDMI to the TV directly, and then run the digital out from the TV to the receiver, because my Philips TV introduces a slight delay and the audio out from the TV is synced to the delayed picture. When I change inputs on the TV, the receiver gets whatever audio it needs. YMMV.


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## joewom (Dec 10, 2013)

leeherman said:


> Diana,
> 
> Based on what you said about the power light I have no reason to believe my Tivo is going into standby.
> 
> ...


Get a hdmi splitter. One that strips the encryption. I have a issue with video with my receiver and tivo and that fixed it.


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## JandS (Oct 1, 2010)

A thread on the AV forum from 2009 has good info on using a Monoprice splitter to resolve HDMI drop-outs. The technique is explained by contributor "zone555" in this thread. (Note the distinction between an HDMI splitter and a switch)

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...l-belden-hdmi-blue-jeans-resolve-v-drops.html


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Arcady said:


> I have always run the HDMI to the TV directly, and then run the digital out from the TV to the receiver, because my Philips TV introduces a slight delay and the audio out from the TV is synced to the delayed picture. When I change inputs on the TV, the receiver gets whatever audio it needs. YMMV.


That exactly my setup and now and then the audio will drop out, then come back, pause the program and the audio comes right back, I have just lived with it as I know no solution and it does not happen to often.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

[redacted by nooneuknow]


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

nooneuknow said:


> That is my biggest gripe with TiVo. TiVo keeps breaking things I've used/done for years, which only cease to work immediately after an update applies.


It would be nice if there was an option to disable updates. Just like on pretty much every operating system and piece of hardware out there. I have automatic updates set up on some of my computers, I have it disabled on others. I have to manually update the firmware on my Blu-ray player, modem, router, etc.

Of course, supporting multiple versions creates more work for TiVo.

Even a way to download and install old versions would be nice.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

justen_m said:


> It would be nice if there was an option to disable updates.


If you buy a Series 3 box, I am sure you won't get any more updates. 

This feature might be coming to the Premiere line next year...


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Arcady said:


> If you buy a Series 3 box, I am sure you won't get any more updates.
> 
> This feature might be coming to the Premiere line next year...


Yeah but S3 doesn't do mp4 and msos are switching over. I lost a bunch of channels which is why I got a Roamio.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

I was kidding.

The fact that S3 won't do mp4 is part of why you WANT updates. The S3 hardware can do it, they just have no reason to update it.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Arcady said:


> I was kidding.
> 
> The fact that S3 won't do mp4 is part of why you WANT updates. The S3 hardware can do it, they just have no reason to update it.


I know you were kidding. And I understand the mp4 thing. I've been transcoding videos and movies to mp4 and watching them on my HDs for years. I would welcome upgrades that improve the DVR capabilities of my DVR. However new versions rhat remove DVR functionality are not welcome.. I want the capabilities and functionality that Tito promoted and advertised when they took my money. Nothing wrong with adding new features but removing key features a few weeks after selling it to me amounts to bait-and-switch IMHO.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

[redacted by nooneuknow]


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

If you have the 1080p resolution checked then uncheck it. Check the 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i boxes and then see if the problem goes away.
What might be happening is the box will not do a new handshake if set to 1080p. 
1080p60 is a useless feature as there is no content made in this resolution and probably never will be. It requires over twice the bandwidth of 720p60/1080i60. 1080p24 uses less bandwidth than 720p60/1080i60.

Even if your display is native 1080p60, it will reprocess the incoming feed at 1080p60 to match the settings that are set in the display. Since all feeds are processed you are better off sending the native resolution to the display and let the display do the video processing and up conversion to 1080p60.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Jed1 said:


> If you have the 1080p resolution checked then uncheck it. Check the 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i boxes and then see if the problem goes away.
> What might be happening is the box will not do a new handshake if set to 1080p.
> 1080p60 is a useless feature as there is no content made in this resolution and probably never will be. It requires over twice the bandwidth of 720p60/1080i60. 1080p24 uses less bandwidth than 720p60/1080i60.
> 
> Even if your display is native 1080p60, it will reprocess the incoming feed at 1080p60 to match the settings that are set in the display. Since all feeds are processed you are better off sending the native resolution to the display and let the display do the video processing and up conversion to 1080p60.


But then you have a much longer time when changing to content at different resolutions. I used to run native resolution output years ago. But since getting my Roamios, I've just been using 1080P60 output to eliminate most of that. I don't have the patience any more. All I might do now is switch between 1080P24 and 1080P60 output. But nothing below 1080P from my roamios. I was hoping a new Mini would come out that also had 1080P60 output.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

aaronwt said:


> But then you have a much longer time when changing to content at different resolutions. I used to run native resolution output years ago. But since getting my Roamios, I've just been using 1080P60 output to eliminate most of that. I don't have the patience any more. All I might do now is switch between 1080P24 and 1080P60 output. But nothing below 1080P from my roamios. I was hoping a new Mini would come out that also had 1080P60 output.


You are only talking about 2 to 4 seconds for the handshake to occur. Since there is no video performance benefit I do not see the need for a 1080p60 output on devices that process TV signals of any kind.
It appears that some people are having a HDMI output issue as the DVR is not making a new handshake to meet the HDCP requirements. This is why they see a green or pink screen. The best way to get the handshake to occur is to change the resolution output of the DVR. This sill not happen if the box is only set to 1080p60.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

Jed1 said:


> You are only talking about 2 to 4 seconds for the handshake to occur. Since there is no video performance benefit I do not see the need for a 1080p60 output on devices that process TV signals of any kind.
> It appears that some people are having a HDMI output issue as the DVR is not making a new handshake to meet the HDCP requirements. This is why they see a green or pink screen. The best way to get the handshake to occur is to change the resolution output of the DVR. This sill not happen if the box is only set to 1080p60.


This is the opposite of how you want to set it up if you want the TiVo to retain a good connection over HMDI. When you turn on multiple resolutions, the TiVo has to change to the new resolution every time you change to a new channel or play a new show with a different resolution. All that switching is not only annoying because the TV is constantly having to switch (and every set is different, some take 1 second and some take 20), but the likelihood of a re-sync causing failure is happening all the time.

I set my Roamio to output 1080p only. It scales whatever I watch to 1080p, the TV never has to re-sync and go black and all that junk, and to me it looks just as good either way. If you have a scaler or other high-end equipment that handles the conversion (like some receivers) then go ahead and turn on all the resolutions. But then your scaler is constantly outputting 1080p and not causing the TV to have fits, so it's really the same thing.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

[redacted by nooneuknow]


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

nooneuknow said:


> @Jed1: I agree with both aaronwt and Arcady on the matter.
> 
> I just got done correcting your also wrong finger-pointing at the power supply as having to do with what channels the tuners are on after a standby/resume cycle, in your last post, in another thread.
> 
> I see a lot of things being presented as facts, which are anything but facts, especially on the resume & tuner matter.


What I am suggesting here is to try unchecking the 1080p60 option to see if this resolves the issue. If it does then you have narrowed this down to a possible HDMI handshake issue.
And I am suggesting it to the people who are having the issue.

And no you did not correct me about the power supply issue as I stated that one thing that will make all the tuners to be tuned to the lowest channel is a loss of power which in turn causes the Cablecard to do a hard reset.
I also provided the data to check to see of the card did indeed reset.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

[redacted by nooneuknow]


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

The issue of output resolution and possible effects on hdmi handshakes is interesting. My tv is just 720p (32"), so I have my Roamio (and TivoHD) set to fixed 720p. If I allow native resolution and let my tv do the scaling, it takes a couple seconds for my tv to "reset" when switching between 720p and 1080i content.

To avoid the tv having to switch modes based on incoming content, I think I would always use a single, fixed resolution output setting on my Tivo. I suppose super duper tvs may do a better job at scaling, or can handle switching input format in 1ms or something, but I don't have one of those, so I avoid the Native or multiple resolution settings.

[edit] Was Native ever a video setting? I seem to recall it was. In any case, for debugging purposes, I would suggest checking a single video output setting. Say either 720p or 1080i or 1080p. Only check one.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

[redacted by nooneuknow]


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

justen_m said:


> [edit] Was Native ever a video setting? I seem to recall it was.


There used to be a way to choose native, fixed or hybrid modes. I think they took all of that out some time ago. I last remember seeing it on a Series 3 box.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Jed1 said:


> You are only talking about 2 to 4 seconds for the handshake to occur. Since there is no video performance benefit I do not see the need for a 1080p60 output on devices that process TV signals of any kind.
> It appears that some people are having a HDMI output issue as the DVR is not making a new handshake to meet the HDCP requirements. This is why they see a green or pink screen. The best way to get the handshake to occur is to change the resolution output of the DVR. This sill not happen if the box is only set to 1080p60.


2 to 4 seconds is a very long time when compared to one second or less when using 1080P60 output. That is a huge performance benefit.


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## leeherman (Nov 5, 2007)

I reconnected my Roamio with HDMI going to the TV for video and TOSLINK out to the receiver for audio. The revised setup seems to work as a workaround but it doesn't solve the problem of the software update seemingly breaking the single cable HDMI connection to my A/V receiver.

Now I have to reprogram my Logitech Harmony remote to use the new inputs on the receiver and TV.

LH


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## Dsyst (Apr 4, 2014)

leeherman said:


> I reconnected my Roamio with HDMI going to the TV for video and TOSLINK out to the receiver for audio. The revised setup seems to work as a workaround but it doesn't solve the problem of the software update seemingly breaking the single cable HDMI connection to my A/V receiver.
> 
> Now I have to reprogram my Logitech Harmony remote to use the new inputs on the receiver and TV.
> 
> LH


This too has become my solution to the HDMI problems since the update. The pulling in and out of the HDMI only worked occasionally, restoring normal picture but almost never audio. Running the audio through the toslink has solved this completely. Although this works, I find it annoying that this update is obviously causing HDMI handshake problems. I have a sneaky feeling that the new power settings are causing this issue by not fully powering the HDMI, which in turn affects sensitive systems. Here's a quote from an article from this webpage: http://www.techradar.com/us/news/ho...ion/common-hdmi-problems-and-solutions-923327

"So what problems does HDMI regularly encounter? "Many problems have nothing to do with high-speed video," says Jeff. "The majority are issues with I2C, the serial protocol used on the DDC line for EDID (Plug and Play) and HDCP (high Bandwidth Digital content Protection).

"I2C is slow, but very susceptible to stray capacitance issues from connectors, cables or anything the electrical bus is connected to. If capacitance gets to a critical point, it slows the signal 'rise time' needed for proper communication. You can have all the high-speed data bandwidth in the world, but without DDC, you're dead in the water."

Possible results are "failures such as no audio, no picture, pink screen or flashing  it has nothing to do with the high-speed data lines. The video can be perfect, but if the DDC line has rise-time issues, the unit will not pass HDCP, and no picture will be displayed."

also:

"Another possible source of HDMI problems is the +5V power line used to power the display's DDC communication circuitry when it's turned off. If this power supply is weakened, communication problems can occur. Some HDMI switchers, splitters and LED-illuminating cables take their power from this line, which is asking for trouble."

The above is especially interesting. I have done all the common "fixes" and still no luck with TIVO HDMI through the receiver. All other HDMI devices work fine, including a PC connected by a 50 foot HDMI cable made by Blue Rigger ($27), which surprisingly works flawlessly.


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## scicarb (Sep 12, 2006)

I'd like to concur with those who are suggesting this is a software issue. I've been using my Roamio Pro with the same TV for over a year. Now suddenly every time I turn it on, the HDCP handshake fails and the Tivo displays a warning the the about the HDMI connection. If I remove and re-insert the HDMI cable everything instantly works again. I've been able to confirm that the HDCP status is Disabled when the TV is first powered on, and then changes to enabled when the cable is removed and re-inserted. I will try changing the output to native to see if that is a more effective workaround to reseating the cable.

edit> tried and it does not change the behavior, but does allow me to clear the issue by switching to a different channel. I believe the software has an issue related to a powered down port. It fails to reset unless there is an event like a channel change or resolution change.


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## Gregd33 (Jul 1, 2001)

I agree with everything below.. this is related to the software update that brought the messages about OnePass (whatever version that is). Same tv, same cables for 1.5 years without a hitch and now, after a powerdown event, the HDMI issue every. single. time.

I have changed the cable out (different maker) and it does the same thing. I do not have any audio receiver in play here and, again, this only occurred after the latest software update.

EDIT: "Spoke" with tech support Anthiny from TiVo. They are aware of it and able to reproduce it. They believe that it is a software issue too. I sent them links to a couple threads on this Forum about it so they can see what others have done/tried/seen.



scicarb said:


> I'd like to concur with those who are suggesting this is a software issue. I've been using my Roamio Pro with the same TV for over a year. Now suddenly every time I turn it on, the HDCP handshake fails and the Tivo displays a warning the the about the HDMI connection. If I remove and re-insert the HDMI cable everything instantly works again. I've been able to confirm that the HDCP status is Disabled when the TV is first powered on, and then changes to enabled when the cable is removed and re-inserted. I will try changing the output to native to see if that is a more effective workaround to reseating the cable.
> 
> edit> tried and it does not change the behavior, but does allow me to clear the issue by switching to a different channel. I believe the software has an issue related to a powered down port. It fails to reset unless there is an event like a channel change or resolution change.


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## tivowiz (Aug 3, 2002)

I just received my Roamio on Monday, I ran into what looks like this issue Tuesday AM. I made sure Power Saver was off, yet when I got up Tuesday AM, no video or audio from the Tivo. All my equipment, including the replaced Cable DVR from Cox, are connected via HDMI to my Onkyo Receiver without issue (until the Roamio came along). What's odd(?) is that this issue only seems to happen when the TV/Receiver have been off for an extended period of time. I'm not sure what this timing is, but, if I turn off the TV/Receiver and back on all is well.

BTW, I have a Tivo Mini upstairs and that works even when the Roamio isn't outputting anything. I guess that in a worse case scenario I can swap the two around (the Mini connects direct to the TV). I'm not sure what I'll lose in terms of A/V quality doing this though.

Based on what I've read here, I've moved the Roamio to feed HDMI direct to the TV, with a toslink connection to the Receiver. I should know by later today if this resolves my situation.

Thanks to all in this thread, hopefully this will be resolved in the nex update.


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## tivowiz (Aug 3, 2002)

tivowiz said:


> ...
> Based on what I've read here, I've moved the Roamio to feed HDMI direct to the TV, with a toslink connection to the Receiver. I should know by later today if this resolves my situation.
> 
> Thanks to all in this thread, hopefully this will be resolved in the nex update.


Well, not so much. There was no picture or audio from the Roamio when I got home tonight. Tried unpluggin and plugging back in the HDMI cable, didn't fix it. The Mini was still working off of it though.


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## sinanju (Jan 3, 2005)

Now that the thread has progressed a bit, I'm not sure my issue is the same issue many others are facing.

My setup is HDMI straight to the TV and digital optical to my receiver. If I'm just watching news over coffee in the morning, audio is through the TV's speakers. If I'm watching better quality video, I mute the TV and turn on the receiver.

In my case, audio via HDMI direct to the TV is fine. The digital optical audio to the receiver is all but unusable. ANY trick play will cause complete loss of audio or audio out of sync about 90% of the time. The only solution I can find that is reliable is to get out of the recording and go back in.

Frankly, related to the HDMI issue or not, this release is a nearly complete audio disaster for folks with receivers.


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## tivowiz (Aug 3, 2002)

For kicks I left the TV on last night, I figured all would be well this AM and it was. Next up is connecting to the TV via component video, that will be tonight, as we're closed down due to snow, so the TV will be on pretty much all day. (Williamsburg, Virginia - more than 2 inches and we all shutdown LOL, actually we got 7 inches so I may be off tomorrow too)


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

sinanju said:


> Now that the thread has progressed a bit, I'm not sure my issue is the same issue many others are facing.
> 
> My setup is HDMI straight to the TV and digital optical to my receiver. If I'm just watching news over coffee in the morning, audio is through the TV's speakers. If I'm watching better quality video, I mute the TV and turn on the receiver.
> 
> ...


I using the same setup and find the same problem but not to the extent you are, the sound goes out on me one or two times an evening (about 3-4 hours) and the back button restores the sound for me all the time.


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## tivowiz (Aug 3, 2002)

Tonights experiment is in place, interesting that as soon as I connected the component cables I received a message regarding HDCP & HDMI connection will not work and to please disconnect the HDMI cable.


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## bruab (Nov 16, 2001)

I lose all audio on my Roamio whenever I do any trick play also. This has been going on for a while, but just tonight I realized it was an issue with the Tivo and not the TV/soundbar when I went into the TiVo settings menu (with the old non-HD screens) and the TiVo sounds came back. That's when the lightbulb went off that this problem happened right around the time of the update. 

They better fix it soon. For now switching inputs forces a re-handshake. But doing that 20+ times a night is very tedious.


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## tivowiz (Aug 3, 2002)

Well, connecting the Roamio to the TV via Component cables resolved the issue. It's not a fix, since only Tivo can fix whatever they mucked up for using HDMI, but, at least I don't have to power off/on my Tivo every morning and night now.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

It still must be an issue with certain devices. I have not seen this issue when using HDMI going to a Denon receiver, HDMI to a Sony Speaker bar, or HDMI straight to a TV. It has behaved the same way as in the past for me. Which is no audio loss.


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## mchief (Sep 10, 2005)

Ditto. I'm running a Plus thru a Yahama AVR and have not seen any HDMI problems, yet.

Had the update for 3 weeks now.


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## Lemming42 (Mar 3, 2015)

I registered an account just to post about this. No hardware / cabling changes, but since the OnePass update I get no picture or sound in the mornings when I start up my TV and switch my AV Receiver (Harman Kardon AVR1600) to the TiVo input. The only way to restore picture and sound is to either:
* Hard cycle the TiVo power by pulling / reconnecting the TiVo power cord (obviously not a good long-term solution)
or
* Pull and reconnect the HDMI plugs on the back of the AV Receiver. When this works it will restore video only. Once video is restored, I have to use the remote to put the TiVo into Standby mode for 10-15 seconds. Pressing a button on the remote to exit Standby will usually restore sound. Note that before I put it into Standby, TiVo reports in the info menu that HDCP is active / enabled / working (even though there is no audio).

I hope there is a fix for this soon, it's very frustrating to deal with.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Lemming42 said:


> I registered an account just to post about this. No hardware / cabling changes, but since the OnePass update I get no picture or sound in the mornings when I start up my TV and switch my AV Receiver (Harman Kardon AVR1600) to the TiVo input. The only way to restore picture and sound is to either:
> * Hard cycle the TiVo power by pulling / reconnecting the TiVo power cord (obviously not a good long-term solution)
> or
> * Pull and reconnect the HDMI plugs on the back of the AV Receiver. When this works it will restore video only. Once video is restored, I have to use the remote to put the TiVo into Standby mode for 10-15 seconds. Pressing a button on the remote to exit Standby will usually restore sound. Note that before I put it into Standby, TiVo reports in the info menu that HDCP is active / enabled / working (even though there is no audio).
> ...


This is part of a known problem on the HDMI hand shake, I have sound problems but different than yours, just an audio cut out a few times a month, the 9 sec. back button restores the sound, don't know why.


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## tivowiz (Aug 3, 2002)

Since switching over to using component video out direct to the TV and toslink to my Onkyo receiver I have not had any issues.


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## rallfern (Oct 1, 2014)

I have been having the same issues with my Roamio plus.. what I discovered is that to shut down..I put the Roamio into standby and then turn the tv off.
When I turn the TV back on and depress live tv, The system comes up. Otherwise if I try to only shut it off I have a real problem getting the tivo to work when I turn it on.. this has to be a software issue and support says they are working on it.. I really wonder if they are...


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## rallfern (Oct 1, 2014)

leeherman said:


> I apparently received the 20.4.6 update overnight and now I'm having a few issues with my Roamio.
> 
> This morning I turned on my system, where the TV and TiVo are connected to my receiver by HDMI, and no audio. After changing channels, which has worked in the past, restarting my receiver, and switching inputs, I finally rebooted the TiVo. It took several reboots, because after the first reboot I was unable to tune to live TV at all due to a cablecard error, and after the first reboot I was getting pixilation. By the second reboot everything seemed OK.
> 
> ...


I have been having the same issues with my Roamio plus.. what I discovered is that to shut down..I put the Roamio into standby and then turn the tv off.
When I turn the TV back on and depress live tv, The system comes up. Otherwise if I try to only shut it off I have a real problem getting the tivo to work when I turn it on.. this has to be a software issue and support says they are working on it.. I really wonder if they are...


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## bruab (Nov 16, 2001)

We are VERY annoyed this isn't fixed yet. My wife wants me to get rid of our TiVo. Fiddling with the inputs 20+ times a night to turn the sound back on is infuriating.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I've had an issue with stuck video since the update. I need to switched to a different channel to get video unstuck. 

I also had a problem tonight where Onkyo receiver claimed my recording of The Following was Dolby Digital 2.0, when it was Dolby digital 5.1, When I droped to live TV and watched it while it was recording it switched to Dolby digital. When I went back to playing it from My Shows it went back to 2.0. Eventually I got it to 5.-, but now it's 2.0 again and I can't get it back to 5.1. As such it's only playing from the left speaker.

Edit: 

I noticed that the recording claimed to have 2 Dolby digital tracks: English and Spanish, so I switched to Spanish on a whim and got the English Dolby Digital track. Switched back to English and I got 2.0. It's like the audio tracks were reverse. Very weird.


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## bguzik (Jan 7, 2002)

Got the 20.4.7 Release on my Roamio Pro...

No Joy...switched the Audio back to DD5.1, and still have the handshake issue (apparently that is the issue) when pausing, and then there is no Audio when resuming.

Disappointed that this is not fixed in the update...

Switched back to PCM and problem goes away...

It is annoying when we want to watch DD5.1 capable shows through the Onkyo (changing the TiVo Audio setting to DD5.1), and to have to remember to switch back to PCM for regular TV (speaker) viewing...


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## bruab (Nov 16, 2001)

I just cycle my inputs and that resets the handshake. Annoying, but it works.


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## tivowiz (Aug 3, 2002)

Has anyone still having this issue tried using a splitter that strips out HDCP? Something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Ultra-Powered-Splitter-Model/dp/B00J4D3RTU?


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## bruab (Nov 16, 2001)

tivowiz said:


> Has anyone still having this issue tried using a splitter that strips out HDCP? Something like this:
> http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Ultra-Powered-Splitter-Model/dp/B00J4D3RTU?


 Yes, I tried one but it didn't work.


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