# Priority Update for 20.4.8



## chuvak

Priority page is live again.

http://www.tivo.com/priority_20.4.8


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## The Merg

Done!


- Merg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## aggets

Anybody know whats in it?


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## BigJimOutlaw

aggets said:


> Anybody know whats in it?


Tears, crushed dreams, and hopefully Plex and Stream mpeg4 support.


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## Mikeguy

And, no doubt, TiVo will be bringing back the Downloads Manager and capability, which capability stupidly and without notice was recently removed.


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## RoyK

Mikeguy said:


> And, no doubt, TiVo will be bringing back the Downloads Manager and capability, which capability stupidly and without notice was recently removed.


And multiple season passes and "unfoldering".... Sigh....


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## kettledrum

Have I even gotten 20.4.7 yet?


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## Mikeguy

RoyK said:


> And multiple season passes and "unfoldering".... Sigh....


It's good to see that TiVo is being so responsive!


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## tomhorsley

RoyK said:


> And multiple season passes and "unfoldering".... Sigh....


And the "Everything" recording option for OnePass .


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## RoyK

tomhorsley said:


> And the "Everything" recording option for OnePass .


Yeah. That too.


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## Dan203

Posted this in the Coffee House thread, but might be useful here too. This will automatically parse the TSN you copy from your TiVo account into the 4 boxes and submit the form for you.



Dan203 said:


> Here is a bookmarklet that will do it...
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> javascript:var tsn = prompt("Paste your TSN");var tsnArray = tsn.trim().split("-");for(i=0;i<4;i++){document.getElementById("tsn_ss"+(i+1)).value=tsnArray[i]};document.getElementById("feedbackForm").getElementsByTagName("BUTTON")[0].click();
> 
> Just create a book mark and use the above as the URL. Then on the TiVo priority page click it and paste your TSN into the prompt.


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## ustavio

I sure hope they address the closed captions boondoggle.


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## andyf

and of course everyone that signs up in the next 3 or 4 days will be lost and need to be re-entered.


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## abovethesink

Damn, you guys are demanding. All I want is for the number to tick up and for nothing to break. I sign up for priority just to face the firing squad sooner.

Ah screw it. I am sure this will enable 4k support.


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## scottfll954

I still have not gotten 20.4.7 yet

I bet 20.4.8 is a fix.... for 20.4.7


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## lpwcomp

abovethesink said:


> Damn, you guys are demanding. All I want is for the number to tick up and for nothing to break. I sign up for priority just to face the firing squad sooner.
> 
> Ah screw it. I am sure this will enable 4k support.


The really important question is will it enable a TiVo to slice, dice, and make beautiful julienne fries?


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## foghorn2

scottfll954 said:


> I still have not gotten 20.4.7 yet
> 
> I bet 20.4.8 is a fix.... for 20.4.7


Nah, 20.4.7 has been rock solid on all 5 of my Tivos.


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## astrohip

ustavio said:


> I sure hope they address the closed captions boondoggle.


I would bet money on this. Captions are serious business, the FCC actively handles captioning issues. Since it's not in .7, good chance it made it into .8.

I hope.


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## BigJimOutlaw

The INTX show (formerly known as The Cable Show) is happening May 5-7, and Tivo will be there as usual. If anything interesting is in this update, maybe we'll get a preview then.


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## HerronScott

andyf said:


> and of course everyone that signs up in the next 3 or 4 days will be lost and need to be re-entered.


I would wait (or maybe re-enter again in a week). 

Scott


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## Ficman

I'm in


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## BlackBetty

Dan203 said:


> Posted this in the Coffee House thread, but might be useful here too. This will automatically parse the TSN you copy from your TiVo account into the 4 boxes and submit the form for you.


I followed the instructions from the other thread and couldn't get this to work. Does it not work on the iphone?


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## HeatherA

Seriously, does anyone know what's in this update? Has Margaret posted any info? I can't seem to find anything.


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## bradleys

HeatherA said:


> Seriously, does anyone know what's in this update? Has Margaret posted any info? I can't seem to find anything.


No, and we never do until the first group sees the release.


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## Dan203

BlackBetty said:


> I followed the instructions from the other thread and couldn't get this to work. Does it not work on the iphone?


I didn't test on the iPhone. Not sure how Safari handles bookmarklets.


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## jtclark

Forced a connection, pending restart.

Now installing an update... was on 20.4.7... we'll see.


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## ajwees41

HeatherA said:


> Seriously, does anyone know what's in this update? Has Margaret posted any info? I can't seem to find anything.


haven't seen Margaret on twitter lately


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## Larry M

I just forced a connection and got a fairly long download. When it was done it said pending restart. So I restarted and then checked for the new version number and it was 20.4.7a. Does anyone have this. I thought it was supposed to be 20.4.8. 

Larry


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## CoxInPHX

Just received 20.4.7a myself.


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## Jed1

ajwees41 said:


> haven't seen Margaret on twitter lately


Margret hasn't posted anything since the 25th of March. The last time she logged on here was April 22nd.
It looks like she pulled a Keyser Soze.





I just got 20.4.7a on my living room Premiere 4. It is loading on my bedroom Premiere 4. I have no idea what is changed or fixed.


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## Kash76

Ditto on Roamio Basic and three Mini units


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## lessd

CoxInPHX said:


> Just received 20.4.7a myself.


Same update I got on all my TiVos, what happened to 20.4.8 ?


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## Bytez

Man, hope they get rid of that damn proxy for streaming.


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## lpwcomp

Has anyone gotten 20.4.7a on a TiVo that wasn't already on 20.4.7?


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## JolDC

lpwcomp said:


> Has anyone gotten 20.4.7a on a TiVo that wasn't already on 20.4.7?


Here. Hadn't had a connection since noon yesterday so I forced one and got pending restart. Restarted and got 20.4.7a to replace my 20.4.7.


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## mbernste

I'm thinking 20.4.8 might've been pulled for some reason and instead a small subset of bug fixes that warranted a 20.4.7a designation were implemented instead (e.g. audio drop outs). 

I noticed that the non-functional download manager is still there. You would think TiVo would either bring it back much to the pleasure of its customers or remove it. This isn't a beta and we shouldn't have non-functioning menus on our devices.


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## pfiagra

FWIW- although I hadn't signed up for 20.4.8 priority, my roamio was upgraded from 20.4.7 to 20.4.7a last night.


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## aggets

lpwcomp said:


> Has anyone gotten 20.4.7a on a TiVo that wasn't already on 20.4.7?


Went from 20.4.6 to 20.4.7a signed up for 20.4.8 last week.


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## ustavio

astrohip said:


> I would bet money on this. Captions are serious business, the FCC actively handles captioning issues. Since it's not in .7, good chance it made it into .8.
> 
> I hope.


Well, no fix with 7a. One wonders if the issue is even on their radar. Interestingly enough, captions on Series 3 Tivo HD work perfectly with both standard and digital enabled at same time. Sigh. Maybe .8 is the ticket or .8a or .9 or.....


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## ajwees41

aggets said:


> Went from 20.4.6 to 20.4.7a signed up for 20.4.8 last week.


they went from 20.4.6 in cox areas at least 20.4.6a to 20.4.7a thought they skipped 20.4.7 and priority list was 20.4.8.


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## bradleys

I really do not think that 20.4.7a has anything to do with the priority update list. TiVo obviously had some issues during the 20.4.7 release that forced them to backtrack a little. 

I think 20.4.7a is simply a fix and will be deployed prior to 20.4.8 without regard to when you signed up for the priority list. Looking at the Premiere forum, I suggest 20.4.7a is in general release for all TiVo's at this time.

You are probably still a couple weeks out from 20.4.8


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## jwbelcher

bradleys said:


> I really do not think that 20.4.7a has anything to do with the priority update list. TiVo obviously had some issues during the 20.4.7 release that forced them to backtrack a little.
> 
> I think 20.4.7a is simply a fix and will be deployed prior to 20.4.8 without regard to when you signed up for the priority list. Looking at the Premiere forum, I suggest 20.4.7a is in general release for all TiVo's at this time.
> 
> You are probably still a couple weeks out from 20.4.8


Yea, I think its in general release. I didn't sign up for either priority list and just got 20.4.7a today.


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## innocentfreak

Jed1 said:


> Margret hasn't posted anything since the 25th of March. The last time she logged on here was April 22nd.
> It looks like she pulled a Keyser Soze.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just got 20.4.7a on my living room Premiere 4. It is loading on my bedroom Premiere 4. I have no idea what is changed or fixed.


She was more active before TiVo got their twitter support team. She seemed to do a lot of support on there so it only makes sense you don't see her post as much.


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## Jed1

innocentfreak said:


> She was more active before TiVo got their twitter support team. She seemed to do a lot of support on there so it only makes sense you don't see her post as much.


But she hasn't even posted any release notes since the 20.4.6 release. She has been posting release notes for how long now and never missed one.

I wonder if she was told to stop by upper management as it is not her job. She did not even mention anything about the 20.4.7 priority update or release notes on her twitter page.


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## innocentfreak

Jed1 said:


> But she hasn't even posted any release notes since the 20.4.6 release. She has been posting release notes for how long now and never missed one.
> 
> I wonder if she was told to stop by upper management as it is not her job. She did not even mention anything about the 20.4.7 priority update or release notes on her twitter page.


She only recently started posting the release notes since people would bug her on Twitter about what was in the update. There are more times nothing was mentioned about updates than times she posted the notes.

She usually doesn't post until after the initial rollout or just as the first priority wave is going live. It sounds like 20.4.7 was mostly bug fixes so not much to say. I don't think a single new feature was discovered.

Also we discovered the 20.4.8 priority page which is super early compared to usual so it might be that some of the stuff in 20.4.7 got pulled due to a late popping bug just prior to rollout and this may be more of the usual release.


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## Jed1

innocentfreak said:


> She only recently started posting the release notes since people would bug her on Twitter about what was in the update. There are more times nothing was mentioned about updates than times she posted the notes.
> 
> She usually doesn't post until after the initial rollout or just as the first priority wave is going live. It sounds like 20.4.7 was mostly bug fixes so not much to say. I don't think a single new feature was discovered.
> 
> Also we discovered the 20.4.8 priority page which is super early compared to usual so it might be that some of the stuff in 20.4.7 got pulled due to a late popping bug just prior to rollout and this may be more of the usual release.


20.4.7 brought Vudu to the Premiere line. We will have to wait and see if she posts anything for the next release. If not then something is not kosher at TiVo as it makes no sense for her to stop that abruptly. I hope I am wrong but I suspect something is amiss.


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## lessd

bradleys said:


> I really do not think that 20.4.7a has anything to do with the priority update list. TiVo obviously had some issues during the 20.4.7 release that forced them to backtrack a little.
> 
> I think 20.4.7a is simply a fix and will be deployed prior to 20.4.8 without regard to when you signed up for the priority list. Looking at the Premiere forum, I suggest 20.4.7a is in general release for all TiVo's at this time.
> 
> You are probably still a couple weeks out from 20.4.8


I still have one Mini on 20.4.6 wherever, I will try a call home tonight.


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## tomhorsley

Jed1 said:


> If not then something is not kosher at TiVo as it makes no sense for her to stop that abruptly. I hope I am wrong but I suspect something is amiss.


People have been known to go on things called "vacations" .


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## joewom

mbernste said:


> I'm thinking 20.4.8 might've been pulled for some reason and instead a small subset of bug fixes that warranted a 20.4.7a designation were implemented instead (e.g. audio drop outs).
> 
> I noticed that the non-functional download manager is still there. You would think TiVo would either bring it back much to the pleasure of its customers or remove it. This isn't a beta and we shouldn't have non-functioning menus on our devices.


Audio dropout is sometimes longer on 7a. So that was not fixed at all.


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## BigJimOutlaw

Sorry for the cross-post but I just read elsewhere that RCN plans to launch Plex and iHeart Radio around the 20th, so I think it's safe to assume those things could be part of .8.

Whatever .7a does, it was important enough to not wait 2 weeks. (another MSO fix?)


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## Wiggly

tomhorsley said:


> People have been known to go on things called "vacations" .


Or trade shows, which if you follow her on Twitter she has posting about sporadically the last few weeks. I think she is busy with that.


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## ustavio

joewom said:


> Audio dropout is sometimes longer on 7a. So that was not fixed at all.


Interestingly enough, I have not experienced audio dropout UNTIL the 7a update. Now, I experience it regularly, especially coming out of pause.


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## ajwees41

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Sorry for the cross-post but I just read elsewhere that RCN plans to launch Plex and iHeart Radio around the 20th, so I think it's safe to assume those things could be part of .8.
> 
> Whatever .7a does, it was important enough to not wait 2 weeks. (another MSO fix?)


I have 20.4.7a and my Tivo's aren't MSO supplied


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## Jed1

tomhorsley said:


> People have been known to go on things called "vacations" .





Wiggly said:


> Or trade shows, which if you follow her on Twitter she has posting about sporadically the last few weeks. I think she is busy with that.


I do not think so. Here is her profile and right below her picture is the last time and date she was on this forum which was April 22nd 2015 at 7:49 PM.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/member.php?u=198507

Here is her posting stats and if you look at her last post date it was on March 25th 2015 at 2:03 PM.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/search.php?searchid=8774600
So she has been on this site after her last post and after the 20.4.7 update but she never did her release notes. Also no mention of the Priority update for 20.4.8.

Here is her Twitter page with all her tweets and replies.
https://twitter.com/tivodesign/with_replies
The last time she tweeted about release notes or Priority updates was in February. No mention of the 20.4.7 update or not even a mention of the Priority update for 20.4.8,
It is apparent that something has happened involving her.


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## mrizzo80

I doubt someone above Margret told her to "stop". She's a VP, the only people above her is probably the executive team.

Was there anything actually done in .7 to warrant Release Notes? The only thing I remember was the intro animation fix. 

And I agree with the person who mentioned Margret being less active on Twitter after TiVoSupport came online... that makes sense.


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## Bytez

I saw three tweets from Margaret yesterday.


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## bbrown9

I'm still on 20.4.6a.


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## mbernste

Totally idle speculation, but it could be that Margaret is lying low to avoid having to deal with the backlash from the removal of video podcast downloads. That's a PR nightmare primed to explode.


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## RoyK

mbernste said:


> Totally idle speculation, but it could be that Margaret is lying low to avoid having to deal with the backlash from the removal of video podcast downloads. That's a PR nightmare primed to explode.


In addition to the horrible design decisions made in the creation of OnePass not to forget the workarounds that she proposed that were less than successful.


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## Kash76

This is getting ugly guys.


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## RoyK

Kash76 said:


> This is getting ugly guys.


True. I edited my post to tone it down.


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## Kash76

Thank you for that. She's a great help to this community. There is no reason to speculate why she hasn't posted.


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## RoyK

Kash76 said:


> Thank you for that. She's a great help to this community. There is no reason to speculate why she hasn't posted.


Speculation is part and parcel of most forums.


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## tim1724

I choose to believe that she's just too busy overseeing lots of cool new stuff to post here.


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## Kash76

Hey team, I asked the TiVo Twitter Support folks and they got back to me very quickly...


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## joewom

tim1724 said:


> I choose to believe that she's just too busy overseeing lots of cool new stuff to post here.


I find it interesting everyone is talking about why she is not posting. I always found it interesting that she posts at all. She is a VP of a rather large company posting on a forum for said company. What other VP does that? Also it could be the updates used to be 2 times a year now they are like 6 or more. So that may be a reason too. She just can't do it as much as the updates are coming. Or its not worth it to her. Meaning the updates have been small she doesn't need the feedback she sometimes need. Sorry but maybe 2% of all tivo owners are on this forum and with all the *****ing most do on this and that and I want this and I want that, I wouldn't post either if I was her.


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## Kash76

joewom said:


> I find it interesting everyone is talking about why she is not posting. I always found it interesting that she posts at all. She is a VP of a rather large company posting on a forum for said company. What other VP does that? Also it could be the updates used to be 2 times a year now they are like 6 or more. So that may be a reason too. She just can't do it as much as the updates are coming. Or its not worth it to her. Meaning the updates have been small she doesn't need the feedback she sometimes need. Sorry but maybe 2% of all tivo owners are on this forum and with all the *****ing most do on this and that and I want this and I want that, I wouldn't post either if I was her.


That's what I was getting at. No need to speculate or attack her.


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## astrohip

mbernste said:


> Totally idle speculation, but it could be that Margaret is lying low to avoid having to deal with the backlash from the removal of video podcast downloads. That's a PR nightmare primed to explode.


Doubt it. She's always been very upfront about owning the decisions that TiVo makes. I've never seen her shy back or blame "corporate".

She believes (and I for the most part totally agree) that TiVo is making the right decisions (design, programming, corporate, etc) for the best future of the company. Why would she shy away from that?

And finally, I think the backlash from something I've never heard of (video podcast downloads) is going to be so miniscule as to be invisible. That's not to say it's not important to those who use it. But that's gotta be a very small subset of users. Really really small.


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## sangs

astrohip said:


> And finally, I think the backlash from something I've never heard of (video podcast downloads) is going to be so miniscule as to be invisible. That's not to say it's not important to those who use it. But that's gotta be a very small subset of users. Really really small.


Couldn't agree more. Somebody posted that it was going to be a PR nightmare ready to explode - or something similar - and I don't think it'll be a blip on the radar, outside of a few posters in these forums.


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## joewom

astrohip said:


> Doubt it. She's always been very upfront about owning the decisions that TiVo makes. I've never seen her shy back or blame "corporate".
> 
> She believes (and I for the most part totally agree) that TiVo is making the right decisions (design, programming, corporate, etc) for the best future of the company. Why would she shy away from that?
> 
> And finally, I think the backlash from something I've never heard of (video podcast downloads) is going to be so miniscule as to be invisible. That's not to say it's not important to those who use it. But that's gotta be a very small subset of users. Really really small.


I agree. Most people that use TIVO don't even know what he is talking about. They are aiming their software to the masses not the few on this forum. This forum is however great for testing. As most here would sign up for priority and then complain about everything under the sun so they can use that and see what they really didn't mean to happen and fix it. But again most of the stuff I read while nice I doubt its even close to their priority of stuff.


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## bradleys

I never used the podcast download - but I think they missed a huge "one pass" opportunity with it. The streaming app is nothing more than another crappy, thrown together html5 app that is annoying to navigate and use.

They should have allowed you to browse, schedule and bookmark streaming podcasts using One-Pass. This is something I would have used quite a bit.

What they implemented was easy and frankly a little lazy. Are web downloads a priority? No... But still...


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## RoyK

bradleys said:


> I never used the podcast download - but I think they missed a huge "one pass" opportunity with it. The streaming app is nothing more than another crappy, thrown together html5 app that is annoying to navigate and use.
> 
> They should have allowed you to browse, schedule and bookmark streaming podcasts using One-Pass. This is something I would have used quite a bit.
> 
> What they implemented was easy and frankly a little lazy. Are web downloads a priority? No... But still...


Why not. It would give us even more folders in addition to the wish lists we must use in a partially successful attempt to restore lost SP functionality resulting in two folders for shows (I currently have 6 ARWLs in my shows which have the same contents as 1Ps) and in addition to folders which might contain nothing and have folder dates which may or may not bear some relationship to their contents and may or may not be deletable shy of rebooting the box.


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## bradleys

RoyK said:


> Why not. It would give us even more folders in addition to the wish lists we must use in a partially successful attempt to restore lost SP functionality resulting in two folders for shows (I currently have 6 ARWLs in my shows which have the same contents as 1Ps) and in addition to folders which might contain nothing and have folder dates which may or may not bear some relationship to their contents and may or may not be deletable shy of rebooting the box.


I am not sure I understand your point


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## RoyK

bradleys said:


> I am not sure I understand your point


's OK


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## sanjay973

Hi, I noticed that on my tivo mini 20.4.7a now gives me full 1080p support on TV.. thats a nice add....


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## lessd

sanjay973 said:


> Hi, I noticed that on my tivo mini 20.4.7a now gives me full 1080p support on TV.. thats a nice add....


I have a new Mini A9300 that still has 20.4.6a and I get 1080p pass through.


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## jdacats

I'm assuming we don't have a changelog for 20.4.8 yet?? 

I haven't been able to find it by searching but perhaps someone has the link?


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## sanjay973

lessd said:


> I have a new Mini A9300 that still has 20.4.6a and I get 1080p pass through.


Yea but this is the old mini. Got it in 2013...


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## JWhites

joewom said:


> I agree. Most people that use TIVO don't even know what he is talking about. They are aiming their software to the masses not the few on this forum. This forum is however great for testing. As most here would sign up for priority and then complain about everything under the sun so they can use that and see what they really didn't mean to happen and fix it. But again most of the stuff I read while nice I doubt its even close to their priority of stuff.


Maybe they _should_ aim their software to this forum, because we seem to know what we're doing and what we want and TiVo clearly does not. With the amount of bugs and glitches we point out, if TiVo ever bothered to actually take the initiative and _read_ our findings they'd have an amazing product that actually works, caters to their retail customers as they always should have, and the general public perception would be that TiVo is an amazing product and it would be flying off the shelves like Black Friday.
It feels like corporate greed took over at TiVo and the only good reputable person left there is Margret. She could at least be here to give release notes for every update for every product or in the very least get a webpage up on the website with the release notes of every product update and when a new update comes out come on here and post the web address for us to go to for reference. We're still waiting for the release notes for the 20.4.5 and 20.4.6 Stream updates which came out months ago...


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## bradleys

Most of the recommendations I read on this forum would over complicate the UI...


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## JolDC

bradleys said:


> Most of the recommendations I read on this forum would over complicate the UI...


Exactly.


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## ucliker

So everyone is on 20.4.7a while I'm still on 20.4.6a. Is there a way to force an update? I have done the connect to TiVo service now twice and nothing changed


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## innocentfreak

bradleys said:


> Most of the recommendations I read on this forum would over complicate the UI...


Not if they were advanced user options you specifically had to turn on.


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## RoyK

bradleys said:


> Most of the recommendations I read on this forum would over complicate the UI...


I'm sure most of us would be glad to explain it to you.


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## MVPinFLA

ucliker said:


> So everyone is on 20.4.7a while I'm still on 20.4.6a. Is there a way to force an update? I have done the connect to TiVo service now twice and nothing changed


I got a new Roamio Pro last week and am still on 6a.


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## L David Matheny

MVPinFLA said:


> I got a new Roamio Pro last week and am still on 6a.


FWIW, my 4-tuner Roamio, 2-tuner Premiere and original Mini got the 20.4.7a update on Thursday, Friday and Saturday mornings respectively. None of them were on any priority list.


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## sanjay973

lessd said:


> I have a new Mini A9300 that still has 20.4.6a and I get 1080p pass through.


Hi... I have the older mini ... I purchased it in 2013...
Also I noticed something.. I am on FIOS and using TIVO... 
On my Roamio I do not have audio drops on DISNEY OWNED CHANNELS but on my TIVO MINI set at 1080P, I do...
Can someone help?
Thanks...


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## JoeKustra

sanjay973 said:


> Hi... I have the older mini ... I purchased it in 2013...
> Also I noticed something.. I am on FIOS and using TIVO...
> On my Roamio I do not have audio drops on DISNEY OWNED CHANNELS but on my TIVO MINI set at 1080P, I do...
> Can someone help?
> Thanks...


Do you mean 1080p(pass-through)? I don't think you can set a Mini to 1080p, only the Roamio. BTW, when I set my Roamio to 1080p, the resolution of my TV, I get serious audio dropouts. I don't recall any on the Roamio when streaming Amazon 1080/p24 or the Roamio/Mini at 1080i.


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## sanjay973

JoeKustra said:


> Do you mean 1080p(pass-through)? I don't think you can set a Mini to 1080p, only the Roamio. BTW, when I set my Roamio to 1080p, the resolution of my TV, I get serious audio dropouts. I don't recall any on the Roamio when streaming Amazon 1080/p24 or the Roamio/Mini at 1080i.


I was able to ... I unchecked everything except for the 1080p passthrough and it works...


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## JoeKustra

sanjay973 said:


> I was able to ... I unchecked everything except for the 1080p passthrough and it works...


Well isn't that something special! I never tried that. When I set my Roamio to 1080/24p Pass Through it changed all outputs to 1080p/24. It was ok on 1080i channels, but the 720p (ABC/FOX) channels were not watchable. Both serious video and audio problems. That's so cool. I never thought that would work. I learn something new everyday. Thanks.

Oh yeah, set it to 1080i and 1080p/24 and there are no problems with any channel on Roamio or Mini. ABC/Disney are 720p.


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## Philmatic

sanjay973 said:


> I was able to ... I unchecked everything except for the 1080p passthrough and it works...


Woah, you're right. True 1080p on a mini. Thanks for the tip!

*Edit:* Although it seems like the Mini isn't able to do 60p in 1080p or the deinterlacer cannot keep up, the menus and video are choppy. Had to put it back to 1080i.


----------



## joewom

JWhites said:


> Maybe they _should_ aim their software to this forum, because we seem to know what we're doing and what we want and TiVo clearly does not. With the amount of bugs and glitches we point out, if TiVo ever bothered to actually take the initiative and _read_ our findings they'd have an amazing product that actually works, caters to their retail customers as they always should have, and the general public perception would be that TiVo is an amazing product and it would be flying off the shelves like Black Friday.
> It feels like corporate greed took over at TiVo and the only good reputable person left there is Margret. She could at least be here to give release notes for every update for every product or in the very least get a webpage up on the website with the release notes of every product update and when a new update comes out come on here and post the web address for us to go to for reference. We're still waiting for the release notes for the 20.4.5 and 20.4.6 Stream updates which came out months ago...


So she should spend allot of time to satisfy 1% of her users? Sounds like bad business practice to me. Like I said and will stick to we are all lucky she does what she does. The users of this forum are a very small minority of their users. Just a sad fact.


----------



## RoyK

joewom said:


> So she should spend allot of time to satisfy 1% of her users? Sounds like bad business practice to me. Like I said and will stick to we are all lucky she does what she does. The users of this forum are a very small minority of their users. Just a sad fact.


Product testers would be delighted with a one percent sample of a large group.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

RoyK said:


> Product testers would be delighted with a one percent sample of a large group.


Not a sample as unrepresentative as we are...


----------



## joewom

RoyK said:


> Product testers would be delighted with a one percent sample of a large group.


True and that is what she seems to use the users here for. Testing of updates when she feels further testing is needed. But if anyone thinks they are going to add features only power users and advance users like are in for some disappointment. They are going to develop software that 99% of their users want or need. I am sure they receive data on what people use and when they delete something (podcasts) it wasn't used much to warrant time in it. And since I am sure they have a storage limit removing something that is not used will make room on the flash storage for a new and or improved service.


----------



## RoyK

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Not a sample as unrepresentative as we are...


The only thing unrepresentative about us is we have the time and inclination to join a user group. The views expressed here cover the whole spectrum of users from the completely satisfied to the disgruntled.


----------



## joewom

RoyK said:


> The only thing unrepresentative about us is we have the time and inclination to join a user group. The views expressed here cover the whole spectrum of users from the completely satisfied to the disgruntled.


I would respectively disagree. Yes for things like audio or video issues and the basic DVR function. But for other things most could care less. my 2 cents.


----------



## RoyK

joewom said:


> True and that is what she seems to use the users here for. Testing of updates when she feels further testing is needed. But if anyone thinks they are going to add features only power users and advance users like are in for some disappointment. They are going to develop software that 99% of their users want or need. I am sure they receive data on what people use and when they delete something (podcasts) it wasn't used much to warrant time in it. And since I am sure they have a storage limit removing something that is not used will make room on the flash storage for a new and or improved service.


99 percent of the users use whatever the cable company installs. The one percent who buy into the TiVo experience want and expect much more.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

RoyK said:


> 99 percent of the users use whatever the cable company installs. The one percent who buy into the TiVo experience want and expect much more.


Yup.

As TiVo continues to de-emphasize the DVR portion of their product, they soon will have little more than a very expensive streaming device.

I've already told one person to go with the cable company DVR option instead of the TiVo because the TiVo holds little benefit in the DVR area after the OnePass fiasco. And TiVo will probably continue removing DVR features.


----------



## MVPinFLA

After 10 years without a Tivo and using various Comcast DVR boxes and DirecTV, I still find Tivo to be so much better than any of those. Perhaps the One Pass has its issues; but compared to anything else I have used, it rocks. The Tivo response time is so incredibly fast and I am easily able to record anything I want, the way I want it.


----------



## NYHeel

MVPinFLA said:


> After 10 years without a Tivo and using various Comcast DVR boxes and DirecTV, I still find Tivo to be so much better than any of those. Perhaps the One Pass has its issues; but compared to anything else I have used, it rocks. The Tivo response time is so incredibly fast and I am easily able to record anything I want, the way I want it.


Yeah, don't get in the way of all the complainers talking about removing DVR functionality and other nonsense like that. The Tivo DVR is far better than most cable company DVRs even without any streaming options. Adding in the One Pass feature and the newer streaming options like Vudu and Amazon just keeps making Tivo that much better. And I have a strong feeling that 95%+ of their customers feel that way as well.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

MVPinFLA said:


> ... I am easily able to record anything I want, the way I want it.


Since the OnePass fiasco, I am no longer able to do that.


----------



## Wattsline

MVPinFLA said:


> I am easily able to record anything I want, the way I want it.


I am too. The people who are upset want new recordings in one folder and reruns in another, I think. I don't care about reruns. If I want them I go to Netflix or something else and stream them. I think they have a valid point but I also think what they've added in functionality in one pass is also nice.


----------



## MVPinFLA

WorldBandRadio said:


> Since the OnePass fiasco, I am no longer able to do that.


I am sure it is disappointing. I guess that means that we want different ways to record, since I am quite happy with One Pass. But i am comparing it to older Comcast DVR's and a DirecTV HR34 Genie.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

NYHeel said:


> Yeah, don't get in the way of all the complainers talking about removing DVR functionality and other nonsense like that. The Tivo DVR is far better than most cable company DVRs even without any streaming options. Adding in the One Pass feature and the newer streaming options like Vudu and Amazon just keeps making Tivo that much better. And I have a strong feeling that 95%+ of their customers feel that way as well.


I agree. I don't think some people realize how unusual we as a group are. My guess is the number of people to whom it would occur to have more than one SP is probably quite miniscule compared to the number of people for whom a One-Pass is convenient. 100-1? 1,000-1?

I'm not thrilled with some of the changes (especially the loss of the Download Manager). But I am resigned to the fact that I am in a very tiny minority that is losing out so that the device can gain a broader appeal.


----------



## HerronScott

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I agree. I don't think some people realize how unusual we as a group are. My guess is the number of people to whom it would occur to have more than one SP is probably quite miniscule compared to the number of people for whom a One-Pass is convenient. 100-1? 1,000-1?
> QUOTE]
> 
> I would tend to agree. We've been using TiVo's for 15 years now (OK almost as it was Father's Day 2000) and I've never considered creating 2 Season Passes for a show.
> 
> Scott


----------



## BruinGuy

MVPinFLA said:


> After 10 years without a Tivo and using various Comcast DVR boxes and DirecTV, I still find Tivo to be so much better than any of those. Perhaps the One Pass has its issues; but compared to anything else I have used, it rocks. The Tivo response time is so incredibly fast and I am easily able to record anything I want, the way I want it.


I agree. I just got my first Tivo and am thrilled with it. I'm ignorant to "how it used to be" and can say for certainty that it's light years ahead of both the FIOS DVR and Windows Media Center cable card DVR. As they say, "ignorance is bliss."


----------



## RoyK

Wattsline said:


> I am too. The people who are upset want new recordings in one folder and reruns in another, I think. I don't care about reruns. If I want them I go to Netflix or something else and stream them. I think they have a valid point but I also think what they've added in functionality in one pass is also nice.


I don't care about football. So it would be fine with me if they quit broadcasting games on TV. You could always stream them with ESPN360 or whatever they call it this year.


----------



## CajunLTE

I for one just recently purchased the Romio OTA as part of the recent special as a replacement for my WMC and couldn't be happier. Perhaps their focus now are towards those that have cut the cord who use services like vudu for any specialized content.


----------



## Wattsline

RoyK said:


> I don't care about football. So it would be fine with me if they quit broadcasting games on TV. You could always stream them with ESPN360 or whatever they call it this year.


I'm ok if they add the ability to have multiple one passes. I can't believe it would be that hard to do, HOWEVER I won't stop using Tivo because they don't have it. It isn't a show stopper for me.


----------



## RoyK

CajunLTE said:


> I for one just recently purchased the Romio OTA as part of the recent special as a replacement for my WMC and couldn't be happier. Perhaps their focus now are towards those that have cut the cord who use services like vudu for any specialized content.


Welcome aboard. Nobody here is claiming that TiVo isn't great. It is. Some of us, however, feel that claiming enhanced streaming capability requires sacrificing powerful DVR capabilities amounts to the same thing as a car manufacturer claiming it is necessary to remove cruise control due to the addition of antilock brakes because they couldn't figure out how to mount both control units, then making the change retroactive to all owners of that model. You can still zip down the road without it after all. And, hey, you could install a hand throttle as a work-around.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

MVPinFLA said:


> ... I guess that means that we want different ways to record, since I am quite happy with One Pass. ...


Yes, I agree different people use the TiVo differently. The flexibility of TiVo's DVR capability, especially the multiple Season Passes, was a big plus and that flexibility attracted a wide customer audience.

Now what *you* have to worry about for the future is that TiVo might remove some DVR functionality that *you* use extensively. I never thought TiVo would remove the ability to have multiple Season Passes, but there you go. They're gone.

It does not seem to bother TiVo to remove DVR functionality, so as the TiVo slowly turns into a streaming device, I would expect more DVR functionality to be removed in the future.


----------



## joewom

RoyK said:


> Welcome aboard. Nobody here is claiming that TiVo isn't great. It is. Some of us, however, feel that claiming enhanced streaming capability requires sacrificing powerful DVR capabilities amounts to the same thing as a car manufacturer claiming it is necessary to remove cruise control due to the addition of antilock brakes because they couldn't figure out how to mount both control units, then making the change retroactive to all owners of that model. You can still zip down the road without it after all. And, hey, you could install a hand throttle as a work-around.


Its not the same thing. And I am not sure what sacrificing we are doing on the DVR side. Like I said some, even some on this forum don't use what allot are complaining about. I consider my self fairly up to speed on technology but I have no need for podcasts, and what was lost with the move to onepass. Never used them. Never will. Also I have seen just as many wanting for streaming integration. I for one use that, so I like the amazon, netflix and vudu app. Now I only use my tivo were before I used a PS3 for those. Could it be better sure, am I going to complain and all, no. The TIVO is by far the best DVR and until someone comes along with a better one they are doing things right. And have no reason to cater to the small few.

I compare this to 3d TV's. That didn't go to well and now it is fading fast. You don't see them pushing or it a feature anymore.


----------



## randian

One of the things I really liked about OnePass is that I didn't have to delete and recreate my SP/OP when I moved recently. I just had to change the channel which they were targeting, or move them to "All" if the show wasn't being broadcast currently. That saved a bunch of time for 50+ OP.


----------



## NYHeel

WorldBandRadio said:


> Yes, I agree different people use the TiVo differently. The flexibility of TiVo's DVR capability, especially the multiple Season Passes, was a big plus and that flexibility attracted a wide customer audience.
> 
> Now what *you* have to worry about for the future is that TiVo might remove some DVR functionality that *you* use extensively. I never thought TiVo would remove the ability to have multiple Season Passes, but there you go. They're gone.
> 
> It does not seem to bother TiVo to remove DVR functionality, so as the TiVo slowly turns into a streaming device, I would expect more DVR functionality to be removed in the future.


You keep talking about removing DVR functionality and Tivo slowly turning into a streaming device as if it's somehow fact. Tivo has removed DVR functionality exactly once in its existence with a minor change that no longer allows multiple season passes/one passes for a single show. I'm not saying that change isn't important to some users but to use that as an example of Tivo slowly turning into a streaming device is beyond disingenuous.

Tivo has also significantly improved DVR functionality in the last few years. Things like more tuners and hard drive space on the hardware side, and my shows filters, to do list filters, season pass defaults, and probably many more that I'm not thinking of on the software side. But somehow Tivo is turning into a streaming device. Beyond ridiculous.


----------



## Dan203

They're attempting to create a device that bridges the gap between traditional TV and streaming services. Considering the challenges involved in doing that, and this is a v1 attempt, I think they've done a pretty good job.


----------



## MVPinFLA

Dan203 said:


> They're attempting to create a device that bridges the gap between traditional TV and streaming services. Considering the challenges involved in doing that, and this is a v1 attempt, I think they've done a pretty good job.


I couldn't agree more. It is so nice to be able to get cable, Amazon and Netlix all in one very convenient place.


----------



## RoyK

MVPinFLA said:


> I couldn't agree more. It is so nice to be able to get cable, Amazon and Netlix all in one very convenient place.


I was able to get cable, Amazon, and Netflix very conveniently on my roamio pre OnePass. Weren't you?


----------



## Dan203

RoyK said:


> I was able to get cable, Amazon, and Netflix very conveniently on my roamio pre OnePass. Weren't you?


Yes but you had to manually manage queues in each app, some of which work better then others. OnePass makes it easier to manage especially when I'm catching up on a show where the older episodes are on Netflix and I'm recording the newer ones. The 1P folders also act as a reminder for shows I start watching via streaming and then forget about.

But for me the whole one pass per show thing isn't a big deal because I don't record reruns.


----------



## MVPinFLA

RoyK said:


> I was able to get cable, Amazon, and Netflix very conveniently on my roamio pre OnePass. Weren't you?


There was no Netflix the last time I had a Tivo.


----------



## mrizzo80

Dan203 said:


> They're attempting to create a device that bridges the gap between traditional TV and streaming services. Considering the challenges involved in doing that, and this is a v1 attempt, I think they've done a pretty good job.


Absolutely.

I've been a fan of 1P since Margret posted about what it could do during CES. They raised the bar a lot with this, and it will only get better in coming updates. I do hope they can address the complaints some people have raised though.


----------



## RoyK

Dan203 said:


> Yes but you had to manually manage queues in each app, some of which work better then others. OnePass makes it easier to manage especially when I'm catching up on a show where the older episodes are on Netflix and I'm recording the newer ones. The 1P folders also act as a reminder for shows I start watching via streaming and then forget about.
> 
> But for me the whole one pass per show thing isn't a big deal because I don't record reruns.


And for me, I purchased a Roamio because of its DVR functions. I seldom stream so the new streaming functionality isn't a big deal . For my purposes the 1p functionality is a step backwards.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

RoyK said:


> And for me, I purchased a Roamio because of its DVR functions. I seldom stream so the new streaming functionality isn't a big deal . For my purposes the 1p functionality is a step backwards.


I agree with you. But I can see why TiVo wouldn't build their business plan around dinosaurs like us.


----------



## RoyK

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I agree with you. But I can see why TiVo wouldn't build their business plan around dinosaurs like us.


The reason I am so disgusted with the several major losses of capability is that 35 years of imbedded processor hardware and software and UI design experience tells me that it wasn't necessary.


----------



## tomhorsley

NYHeel said:


> Tivo has removed DVR functionality exactly once in its existence with a minor change that no longer allows multiple season passes/one passes for a single show.


They also removed the "Everything" recording option which I found quite valuable. I had to change all my OnePass entries I wanted to record everything to wish lists with title match to get back "Everything".


----------



## waynomo

tomhorsley said:


> They also removed the "Everything" recording option which I found quite valuable.


How man "everything" SPs did you have? What shows?


----------



## astrohip

RoyK said:


> The only thing unrepresentative about us is we have the time and inclination to join a user group. The views expressed here cover the whole spectrum of users from the completely satisfied to the disgruntled.


Your second sentence is correct. Your first sentence could not be more wrong.

Just because we have that broad spectrum you mention does NOT mean we are a representative group. Online forum users are a very specific breed, and are not even close to representing any sort of average or bell curve group.



WorldBandRadio said:


> Yup.
> 
> As TiVo continues to de-emphasize the DVR portion of their product, they soon will have little more than a very expensive streaming device.
> 
> I've already told one person to go with the cable company DVR option instead of the TiVo because the TiVo holds little benefit in the DVR area after the OnePass fiasco. And TiVo will probably continue removing DVR features.


Then you did them a serious disservice. Because TiVo removed some features you considered important, you tell someone to not get what is still considered by all the best DVR available to them. Best by far.

I remember when BMW removed one little bitty feature I used all the time. I couldn't imagine why they removed it, as it couldn't cost a penny (it was just software), and it was a couple menus down, so who felt the need to remove it? I even went to a user forum to dbl check that I wasn't overlooking something. Nope, it was gone.

Am I now going to tell people, when we talk about cars, that I drive some POS because they removed the stopwatch function? Or do I still talk about the best handling car I've ever driven?

WBR--get a little more perspective. And a little less drama.


----------



## Jepato

Cable company dvr over Tivo? Someone has gone cray cray. Even an older model Tivo without all the streaming functions is a better option.


----------



## b-ball-fanatic

astrohip said:


> Just because we have that broad spectrum you mention does NOT mean we are a representative group. Online forum users are a very specific breed, and are not even close to representing any sort of average or bell curve group.


+1 Not even _remotely _close!



tomhorsley said:


> They also removed the "Everything" recording option which I found quite valuable. I had to change all my OnePass entries I wanted to record everything to wish lists with title match to get back "Everything".


So....they didn't actually remove the option you found quite valuable....you just have to do it differently now than you did before?



NYHeel said:


> You keep talking about removing DVR functionality and Tivo slowly turning into a streaming device as if it's somehow fact. Tivo has removed DVR functionality exactly once in its existence with a minor change that no longer allows multiple season passes/one passes for a single show.


And despite all the hand wringing about this change (it's not just this thread), TiVo didn't so much remove a function as they removed a redundancy. Between OnePass and WishList, what functionality is really lost? Hey, I'm happy to whine when unwanted changes rock my little world, but all the Sturm und Drang is perplexing.


----------



## lpwcomp

Wishlists aren't channel specific.


----------



## joblo

RoyK said:


> The reason I am so disgusted with the several major losses of capability is that 35 years of imbedded processor hardware and software and UI design experience tells me that it wasn't necessary.


Whats worse is Ive yet to see any evidence that anything has actually been removed from the code base at all. So far, it all looks like superficial changes to the menus.

*Multiple 1Ps per show are implemented.* That was established just today. You just need an S2 or S3 machine from which to transfer them.

*Everything definitely still works with 1P*, if you can access the Classic UI to enable it, and maybe even if you transfer an everything-enabled SP/1P from an S2/3/4 machine to a Roamio.

*The download manager still functions* perfectly well for TiVo-supplied content like TiVo Tours. The search routines still find downloadable webcasts. Theyve just disabled the creation of 1Ps in the New UI, and pulled the plug on the back end servers for the Classic UI.

And the obvious reason for doing that is because TiVo partnered with an ad-supported streaming provider who duplicates some portion, but definitely nowhere near all, of the previously available downloadable content, and they dont want people to be able to bypass the streaming ads with downloadable ad free or ad skip-able downloaded versions of the same content.

*VOD was disabled* in the Premiere Classic UI, *except for Hulu*, because Hulu is an ad supported service owned and operated by TiVos broadcast industry partners.

And *the disabling of the non-grouped show list is laughable*. Of course the code still supports it. They just got rid of the button to trigger it.

And every time I see someone write that the Classic UI is not on the Roamio, I have to laugh. Of course it is. It runs the same software as the Premiere. Its just hidden from paying subscribers.

But you can be sure that TiVo developers arent keeping Premieres around to alpha test how their changes affect the Classic UI. Verifying the retrofit onto older models is work for lesser lights in QA, or maybe even CS if QA is sloppy. But the Geniuses of Development are doing their work on the latest, greatest, and sexiest boxes. Thats just how the world works.



WorldBandRadio said:


> Now what *you* have to worry about for the future is that TiVo might remove some DVR functionality that *you* use extensively.


Exactly. This is a first-they-came-for-the-Jews type story. You know, first they came for the Jews and I said nothing because I wasnt Jewish, and then they came for the Catholics and I said nothing because I wasnt Catholic, and then they came for  and they came for  and they came for  and finally they came for me, but there was nobody left to say anything.

*So what will TiVo and its content industry partners come for next?*



Dan203 said:


> But for me the whole one pass per show thing isn't a big deal because *I don't record reruns.*





Wattsline said:


> *I don't care about reruns.* If I want them I go to Netflix or something else and stream them.


And there you have it. Today, everything" is gone. But most people, that is, the masses, really only care about new stuff and prefer to stream reruns. And the content providers would certainly rather you stream reruns than record your own copy. So no more recording New and repeats, just New. Because its just so much simpler that way, and, hey, most folks seem to like it.

Will this happen today or tomorrow? Of course not. TiVo and its partners will wait until all of today's "whiners" are gone, and people who record reruns are the new "miniscule" minority.

= = = =



astrohip said:


> Just because we have that broad spectrum you mention does NOT mean we are a representative group. Online forum users are a very specific breed, and are not even close to representing any sort of average or bell curve group.


Forum posters, maybe. But far more people read/lurk than post. And nearly any google search with TiVo in it will get you links to TCF. I think TCF readers may be far more numerous and representative than you think.



astrohip said:


> TiVo  is still considered by all the best DVR available to them. Best by far.


Now this is delusional. TiVo has never been considered by all the best DVR. In fact, TiVo users are probably a far less representative sample of the general DVR user population than TCF readers are of the TiVo user population.



astrohip said:


> WBR--get a little more perspective. And a little less drama.


And this is just plain condescending and rude.

I get it; youre a TiVophile.

But this attitude that you and so many other TiVophiles manifest, here and elsewhere on the net, really doesnt do TiVo Inc. any favors.

*ETA: It now appears I gave TiVo developers too much credit; the multiple 1P per show implementation is only partial.

2015-05-14.2125 EDT: Looks like it is fully implemented, but TiVo decided to disable it. In fairness to TiVo, the way the developers did it, I think it's possible the suits found it too confusing to release. Whose idea it was to do it the way they did it, I could only speculate.


----------



## CoxInPHX

joblo said:


> *VOD was disabled* in the Premiere Classic UI, *except for Hulu*, because Hulu is an ad supported service owned and operated by TiVo's broadcast industry partners.


HuluPlus has never been converted to HTML5 that is the reason it is still available in the Classic UI, has nothing to do with Ads. The newer apps (written for HTML5) require at least 720p.



joblo said:


> But you can be sure that TiVo developers aren't keeping Premieres around to alpha test how their changes affect the Classic UI. Verifying the retrofit onto older models is work for lesser lights in QA, or maybe even CS if QA is sloppy. But the Geniuses of Development are doing their work on the latest, greatest, and sexiest boxes. That's just how the world works.


I assure you TiVo still does do alpha and beta testing on Premieres, (NDA) and also because there is a very large base of Premieres still in use by Cable Cos, and they demand the testing and updates. Just ask Jason Nealis at RCN.


----------



## joblo

CoxInPHX said:


> HuluPlus has never been converted to HTML5 that is the reason it is still available in the Classic UI, has nothing to do with Ads.


So why is it only in MP&S but no longer in VoD where one would expect it?

And why is Netflix not available? I see no change to that app since since they removed it from Classic. It was always the same before whether invoked from Classic or New. And it's still the same from New now, as far as I can tell.

And Xfinity on Demand, the Comcast app, is apparently still available to Classic users also. Why?



> The newer apps (written for HTML5) require at least 720p.


I see no evidence that anything requires 720p. I can display the New UI on a 480i set and all the apps start and display just fine. They may not look as good in 480i as 720p, but the screen doesnt go black or anything.



> I assure you TiVo still does do alpha and beta testing on Premieres, (NDA) and also because there is a very large base of Premieres still in use by Cable Cos, and they demand the testing and updates. Just ask Jason Nealis at RCN.


Good to know. Thank you.


----------



## CoxInPHX

You are correct, I switched my Roamio and Minis over to 480i only was able to still access the HDUI, Netflix, Amazon etc, You cannot do that on the Premieres though. It is either disabled in the SW for no good reason or it is a hardware limitation of the Premiere.

YouTube and Pandora were the first OTT apps to disappear from the SDUI, if memory serves me. When I emailed Margret Schmidt about this, it was her that told me all new HTML5 apps would no longer be available in the SDUI due to the 720p requirement. That is were my info came from.


----------



## joblo

CoxInPHX said:


> You are correct, I switched my Roamio and Minis over to 480i only was able to still access the HDUI, Netflix, Amazon etc, You cannot do that on the Premieres though.


Ummm I dont have a Roamio. Im doing it on a Premiere.

To be fair, though, Im cheating a bit in that Im looking at the composite outs fed into an SD modulator for whole house distribution. The HDMI output for the local screen is set to 720p.



> It is either *disabled in the SW for no good reason *or it is a hardware limitation of the Premiere.


There is no hardware limitation, as far as I can tell.

The New UI will not enable on the Premiere unless you set the video to widescreen. That is indeed a software limitation that exists for historical (= no good) reasons. It looks exactly the same as a Roamio  I tried a Roamio when they first came out, but returned it within the 30 day window.

But initially, TiVo marketed the two UIs as HD vs. SD, and so they put corresponding restrictions on the Premiere menus. Then when they wanted to release the Roamio with the Classic UI disabled, they removed the corresponding menu restrictions, but chose not to retrofit that to the Premieres, even when they made the Premieres run identical SW with identical look and feel as the Roamios.



> YouTube and Pandora were the first OTT apps to disappear from the SDUI, if memory serves me. When I emailed Margret Schmidt about this, it was her that told me all new HTML5 apps would no longer be available in the SDUI due to the 720p requirement. That is were my info came from.


Except that nothing is really tied to the resolution, its actually tied to the aspect ratio. Its just that, as far as I can tell, theres a hidden assumption that 16:9 users will be 720 or higher, while 4:3 users will be 480.


----------



## jcthorne

astrohip said:


> Am I now going to tell people, when we talk about cars, that I drive some POS because they removed the stopwatch function? Or do I still talk about the best handling car I've ever driven?


Driven a Ford...Lately?


----------



## MVPinFLA

I think that the multiple 1P's were probably taken out to prevent confusion for Tivo newbies. My wife is already confused enough with what is showing in My Shows. I bet that their help line calls have dropped when the multiples 1P's were removed. 

I personally don't care one way or the other; but they probably want to make the UI as simple as possible for everyone; as opposed to providing the feature for the few who like it. I don't necessarily agree with that; but can appreciate the logic of it.


----------



## RoyK

MVPinFLA said:


> I think that the multiple 1P's were probably taken out to prevent confusion for Tivo newbies. My wife is already confused enough with what is showing in My Shows. I bet that their help line calls have dropped when the multiples 1P's were removed.
> 
> I personally don't care one way or the other; but they probably want to make the UI as simple as possible for everyone; as opposed to providing the feature for the few who like it. I don't necessarily agree with that; but can appreciate the logic of it.


Many folks were unaware that multiple SPs were even possible. Nobody complained about being confused by them. If anything I expect help line calls have been from users asking why they were gone and how to get them back. It's a FAQ on the TiVo support site.

If removing confusing functions needs to happen then the first to go should be wish lists I'd be willing to bet only a small percentage of users use them so who cares if they're gone? .


----------



## MVPinFLA

RoyK said:


> Many folks were unaware that multiple SPs were even possible. Nobody complained about being confused by them. If anything I expect help line calls have been from users asking why they were gone and how to get them back. It's a FAQ on the TiVo support site.
> 
> If removing confusing functions needs to happen then the first to go should be wish lists I'd be willing to bet only a small percentage of users use them so who cares if they're gone? .


I meant that if someone set one up by mistake they would be confused.


----------



## tomhorsley

b-ball-fanatic said:


> So....they didn't actually remove the option you found quite valuable....you just have to do it differently now than you did before?


Yes, they did remove it. A wishlist isn't the same as a OnePass, now I not only get "everything", but for "Doctor Who" for instance, I also get things like episodes of the Dr. Oz show with titles like "The doctor who thinks everyone should eat dirt." .


----------



## atmuscarella

The unfortunate reality is that TiVo has gone from a small start-up focused on serving their only revenue stream (us -stand alone users) to a typical larger company. We (stand alone users) are no longer TiVo's only or even main revenue stream and are being treated accordingly. That sucks but not much we can do about it other than be aware of the fact and act accordingly. 

I love my Roamio and am glad I bought it when I did and have no issue with the price I paid ($590 with lifetime). 

However what has happen recently with the removal of pod cast downloads and to a lesser degree the move to 1 pass is a clear indication that TiVo puts the desires of other revenue stream providers above ours. I don't really blame TiVo for this after all lots of people don't want to pay much for a DVR as the recent $300 all in OTA Roamio indicates. So TiVo does the logical thing and develops other revenue streams. 

If 10-15 million people had been willing to shell out the full price for a TiVo and subbed monthly TiVo would be much more focused on keeping us happy instead of developing other revenue streams and keeping them happy.


----------



## joewom

atmuscarella said:


> The unfortunate reality is that TiVo has gone from a small start-up focused on serving their only revenue stream (us -stand alone users) to a typical larger company. We (stand alone users) are no longer TiVo's only or even main revenue stream and are being treated accordingly. That sucks but not much we can do about it other than be aware of the fact and act accordingly.
> 
> I love my Roamio and am glad I bought it when I did and have no issue with the price I paid ($590 with lifetime).
> 
> However what has happen recently with the removal of pod cast downloads and to a lesser degree the move to 1 pass is a clear indication that TiVo puts the desires of other revenue stream providers above ours. I don't really blame TiVo for this after all lots of people don't want to pay much for a DVR as the recent $300 all in OTA Roamio indicates. So TiVo does the logical thing and develops other revenue streams.
> 
> If 10-15 million people had been willing to shell out the full price for a TiVo and subbed monthly TiVo would be much more focused on keeping us happy instead of developing other revenue streams and keeping them happy.


Your missing one big part. You are assuming that all those people would be as set on these features you speak of for them to care. I still will argue that even if they have 10-15 million DVR stand alone 99% could care less about these features so few on here even care about.


----------



## atmuscarella

joewom said:


> Your missing one big part. You are assuming that all those people would be as set on these features you speak of for them to care. I still will argue that even if they have 10-15 million DVR stand alone 99% could care less about these features so few on here even care about.


I have no idea what the demand is for any individual feature and I really doubt you have any facts to support your opinion that a user friendly properly functioning video pod cast download subscription feature was/would not be of interest to 99% of TiVo's users.

What I do believe is if stand alone users where TiVo's only (or at least major) revenue stream (and of course that there was some actual competition in the Stand alone DVR market) that TiVo would be much more concerned with stand alone user desires - even the fringe users desires.

As it is now we are basically in a take it or leave situation where it will take allot before taking it isn't still the best option. You may not have used the pod cast download feature but it represented about 25% of my TiVo viewing which I consider significant.


----------



## Jed1

According to an executive at RCN, they are expecting a roll out of the Plex and I heart Radio app on the 20th of May. That is one week from now. If RCN TiVos get this before the consumer TiVos then there has been a shift in priorities at TiVo.
I suspect that there has been a shift as Margret has not posted since the 25th of March. She has also not even mentioned anything about the 20.4.7 and 20.4.7a updates on her Twitter page.

I did not even bother to sign up for the Priority Update as we have no idea what was done with 20.4.7 or 20.4.7a. If 20.4.8 is just Plex and I Heart then I won't sign up for it as I do not care for Plex. I do not use my TiVo to listen to music as I use my AVR for that.


----------



## b-ball-fanatic

tomhorsley said:


> Yes, they did remove it. A wishlist isn't the same as a OnePass, now I not only get "everything", but for "Doctor Who" for instance, I also get things like episodes of the Dr. Oz show with titles like "The doctor who thinks everyone should eat dirt." .


If you're getting things unrelated to your desired program, you need to refine your WishList. If your title keyword is "Doctor Who," it wouldn't be recording "Dr. Oz."


----------



## sangs

Jed1 said:


> According to an executive at RCN, they are expecting a roll out of the Plex and I heart Radio app on the 20th of May. That is one week from now. If RCN TiVos get this before the consumer TiVos then there has been a shift in priorities at TiVo.
> I suspect that there has been a shift as Margret has not posted since the 25th of March. She has also not even mentioned anything about the 20.4.7 and 20.4.7a updates on her Twitter page.
> 
> I did not even bother to sign up for the Priority Update as we have no idea what was done with 20.4.7 or 20.4.7a. If 20.4.8 is just Plex and I Heart then I won't sign up for it as I do not care for Plex. I do not use my TiVo to listen to music as I use my AVR for that.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=528511


----------



## joewom

atmuscarella said:


> I have no idea what the demand is for any individual feature and I really doubt you have any facts to support your opinion that a user friendly properly functioning video pod cast download subscription feature was/would not be of interest to 99% of TiVo's users.
> 
> What I do believe is if stand alone users where TiVo's only (or at least major) revenue stream (and of course that there was some actual competition in the Stand alone DVR market) that TiVo would be much more concerned with stand alone user desires - even the fringe users desires.
> 
> As it is now we are basically in a take it or leave situation where it will take allot before taking it isn't still the best option. You may not have used the pod cast download feature but it represented about 25% of my TiVo viewing which I consider significant.


No but TIVO does. And they would not remove a popular feature or it wouldn't be gone for long if it was popular. Its not rocket science. It has been betten to death by a few on here and if all the others called and complianed it would have been back soon. Tivo is a business to make money. My saying 99% is not facts but that is what all businesses do. Please the masses because you damn sure won't please everyone. I learned that in my 20 years in retail.


----------



## bradleys

Jed1 said:


> According to an executive at RCN, they are expecting a roll out of the Plex and I heart Radio app on the 20th of May. That is one week from now. If RCN TiVos get this before the consumer TiVos then there has been a shift in priorities at TiVo.
> I suspect that there has been a shift as Margret has not posted since the 25th of March. She has also not even mentioned anything about the 20.4.7 and 20.4.7a updates on her Twitter page.


Maybe, maybe not. We know that the RCN updates generally follow the retail updates pretty closely. We can reasonably assume there was a problem with the 20.4.7 release that affected the Plex and iHeart Radio releases.

Since the problems were found during the consumer release, it is possible that the bugs were fixed in the 20.4.7 release between the Retail and RCN releases giving RCN an advantage a this point in time.

While that is all possible, I suggest that the RCN TiVo's received a bug free code update and now Plex / iHeart Radio will be released to the Opera store for all platforms with the 20.4.8 consumer update.

But hey, if it makes you feel better - the other option is TiVo is abandoning the retail market. (Although, I think there is no evidence of that outside a very negative world view)


----------



## ajwees41

sangs said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=528511


The link link says June 8th not May 20th.


----------



## HarperVision

ajwees41 said:


> The link link says June 8th not May 20th.


Maybe May 20 is the date for those on the Priority Update list to start to get it, and then general rollout starts June 8?


----------



## tomhorsley

b-ball-fanatic said:


> If you're getting things unrelated to your desired program, you need to refine your WishList. If your title keyword is "Doctor Who," it wouldn't be recording "Dr. Oz."


It recorded it when the episode title for Dr Oz happened to contain the phrase "doctor who" in the metadata that showed up from tribune. I've got it as refined as it is gonna get, and it doesn't do this sort of thing often, but it does do it sometimes.


----------



## atmuscarella

joewom said:


> No but TIVO does. And they would not remove a popular feature or it wouldn't be gone for long if it was popular. Its not rocket science. It has been betten to death by a few on here and if all the others called and complianed it would have been back soon. Tivo is a business to make money. My saying 99% is not facts but that is what all businesses do. Please the masses because you damn sure won't please everyone. I learned that in my 20 years in retail.


The part I highlighted in red is where we differ significantly. I no longer believe this, even if 50% of TiVo's stand alone user base wanted and used the video pod cast subscription download feature - if TiVo could make more or save allot of money by dumping it and going with the so called streaming option (which sucks) that they said replaces it, I believe that is what they would do. There is no incentive for TiVo to worry about this at all, the MSOs could care less and virtually no stand alone user is going to cancel or not buy a TiVo because of it, we might (and did) complain and be unhappy (and the same is true for the changes in season passes/one pass) but in the end there are still no better alternatives. Don't get me wrong TiVo has no real choice they have to maximize other revenue streams and cut costs where ever possible as the stand alone DVR market is at best a niche market. Hopefully something will change that and other players will come in to compete for our business until then it it what it is.


----------



## joblo

tomhorsley said:


> It recorded it when the episode title for Dr Oz happened to contain the phrase "doctor who" in the metadata that showed up from tribune. I've got it *as refined as it is gonna get*, and it doesn't do this sort of thing often, but it does do it sometimes.


Meaning that you've restricted the WL to *Sci-Fi and Fantasy*, but it still recorded *Dr. Oz*?!?

Now that's funny...


----------



## tomhorsley

joblo said:


> Meaning that you've restricted the WL to *Sci-Fi and Fantasy*, but it still recorded *Dr. Oz*?!?


No, because 3/4 of the time the metadata doesn't get the genre right, so it is basically useless :-(.


----------



## Jed1

HarperVision said:


> Maybe May 20 is the date for those on the Priority Update list to start to get it, and then general rollout starts June 8?


Nope. The RCN executive stated that their MSO TiVo units are expected to get Plex and I Heart on the 20th of May.
RCN has been updating all their MSO units to 1 Pass since the beginning of April. He indicated that RCN will not be enabling Vudu or Amazon Prime apps at this time. They do have Netflix enabled on their MSO TiVos.
Most of RCN units are series 4 TiVos.

Now keep in mind that the consumer Premieres got 1P and Amazon Prime in March and Vudu in the beginning of April, which was part of 20.4.7.
The usual lag between retail units and MSO units was a minimum of 3 months.


----------



## joblo

tomhorsley said:


> No, because 3/4 of the time the metadata doesn't get the genre right, so it is basically useless :-(.


Sorry to hear that. I've had better luck with the metadata in that respect, I guess, but admittedly, I haven't used it often.

I do think *TiVo's WL functionality is long overdue for enhancement*. As far as I can tell, there have been no significant changes to it since they introduced in Series 1.

*It could badly use an exact match operator, a way to distinguish between program titles from episode titles, and an ability to limit recording to particular channels.
*
In fact, I would very much like to be able to set up a wish list with nothing but a channel restriction, and a wild card match on title, so that I could effectively set up backstop WLs, that would "home" all tuners to default channels whenever there was no higher priority recording. Such lists could then replace "live" buffers with pseudo-live, always stream-able "buffers" that would always go back to the beginning of some integral number of programs determined by KAM, rather than 30 minutes or 60 minutes, or whatever the current live buffer limit is.

But, alas, the brain trusts at TiVo Inc. don't think like I do, so I've had to simulate this functionality in other ways. But that was my first and only use for WLs for a long time. I used such lists to fill Recently Deleted with "standard candles" in the days before TiVo provided disk usage info, so that I could determine free disk space simply by RD count, without looking at its contents.

(Indeed, one of the more minor annoyances of the New UI compared to the Classic is that it removes the RD count from the main list, so now you have go into RD to see how many shows are there. But it does provide a disk usage meter, so TiVo giveth and TiVo taketh away.)


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## JWhites

Kash76, that screenshot of the Twitter didn't help because all their responses were incomplete.


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## JWhites

bradleys said:


> Most of the recommendations I read on this forum would over complicate the UI...


Honestly, a lot of the recommendations _I've_ read on this forum were stupid or conveluted, so I'd assume TiVo would use some common sense in what they choose.


----------



## lpwcomp

tomhorsley said:


> It recorded it when the episode title for Dr Oz happened to contain the phrase "doctor who" in the metadata that showed up from tribune. I've got it as refined as it is gonna get, and it doesn't do this sort of thing often, but it does do it sometimes.


Just out of curiosity, are you getting bad recordings so that you need to record the same episode multiple times to ensure that you get a good copy?


----------



## JWhites

NYHeel said:


> Yeah, don't get in the way of all the complainers talking about removing DVR functionality and other nonsense like that. The Tivo DVR is far better than most cable company DVRs even without any streaming options. Adding in the One Pass feature and the newer streaming options like Vudu and Amazon just keeps making Tivo that much better. And I have a strong feeling that 95%+ of their customers feel that way as well.


I wouldn't mind if they'd get rid of the annoying thumbs up/ down feature, or make it a setting to turn off.


----------



## Jed1

bradleys said:


> Maybe, maybe not. We know that the RCN updates generally follow the retail updates pretty closely. We can reasonably assume there was a problem with the 20.4.7 release that affected the Plex and iHeart Radio releases.
> 
> Since the problems were found during the consumer release, it is possible that the bugs were fixed in the 20.4.7 release between the Retail and RCN releases giving RCN an advantage a this point in time.
> 
> While that is all possible, I suggest that the RCN TiVo's received a bug free code update and now Plex / iHeart Radio will be released to the Opera store for all platforms with the 20.4.8 consumer update.
> 
> But hey, if it makes you feel better - the other option is TiVo is abandoning the retail market. (Although, I think there is no evidence of that outside a very negative world view)


The assumption you and other members made was from this juicy press release that David Zatz posted on his website.
http://www.evolutionbb.com/cable/TiVo-Change/page693.html
Evolution Digital exclusively works for cable operators and the announcement is strictly for their equipment not retail owned TiVo's.

Here is the announcement:


> The legacy Amazon application will be removed from ALL Cable Operator's TiVo boxes (Series2, Series3, Series4, and Series5) on APRIL 15, 2015. Cable Operators will need to execute an agreement directly with Amazon in order to launch the Prime Instant Video application that supports the HTML5 platform. Evolution Digital has worked to minimize the field impact of this change and there is no action that a Cable Operator or subscriber will have to take. TiVo will be deploying new OTT services which include:
> •Vudu (www.vudu.com)
> •iHeartradio (www.iheart.com)
> •Plex video, music streaming service (www.plex.tv)
> 
> Evolution Digital understands the importance of providing the best applications within the TiVo product. With the *rollout of the new 3.4 firmware*, subscribers will benefit from new features as well as have the option to deploy Amazon Prime Instant Video once a direct contract is executed.


The new 3.4 firmware is what RCN is rolling out now and according to RCN the two new apps are expected be added on May 20th.

Here is what Evolution Digital is about.
http://www.evolutionbb.com/cable/About-Evolution-Digital/page11.html

Here is the Evolution digitals page for TiVo's for cable operators.
http://www.evolutionbb.com/cable/Evolution-TiVo-Solution/page487.html

This is their main page.
http://www.evolutionbb.com/

The only thing I think 20.4.7 did is bring the Vudu app to the Premieres and 20.4.7a us just a minor bug fix.
If the MSO TiVo's get these two apps before the retail line then that is a big change in how TiVo was doing their updates by having the consumer units beta test the release way before it was released to the MSO units.


----------



## HarperVision

Jed1 said:


> Nope. The RCN executive stated that their MSO TiVo units are expected to get Plex and I Heart on the 20th of May. RCN has been updating all their MSO units to 1 Pass since the beginning of April. He indicated that RCN will not be enabling Vudu or Amazon Prime apps at this time. They do have Netflix enabled on their MSO TiVos. Most of RCN units are series 4 TiVos. Now keep in mind that the consumer Premieres got 1P and Amazon Prime in March and Vudu in the beginning of April, which was part of 20.4.7. The usual lag between retail units and MSO units was a minimum of 3 months.


But the RCN exec has nothing to do with retail TiVo's getting the update via priority or normal updating, so those dates could be true.


----------



## JWhites

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I agree. I don't think some people realize how unusual we as a group are. My guess is the number of people to whom it would occur to have more than one SP is probably quite miniscule compared to the number of people for whom a One-Pass is convenient. 100-1? 1,000-1?
> 
> I'm not thrilled with some of the changes (especially the loss of the Download Manager). But I am resigned to the fact that I am in a very tiny minority that is losing out so that the device can gain a broader appeal.


Honestly I think there is a certain high quality of person a TiVo user was known for and they need to start keeping the low quality riff-raff out again. Call it elitist, I don't care, but there are certain lines that should not be crossed, like http://image.lowridermagazine.com/f...+2004-lincoln-towncar+how-high-hydraulics.jpg or http://news.boldride.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/813-Camaro-ZL1-2.jpg


----------



## RoyK

JWhites said:


> Honestly I think there is a certain high quality of person a TiVo user was known for and they need to start keeping the low quality riff-raff out again. Call it elitist, I don't care, but there are certain lines that should not be crossed, like http://image.lowridermagazine.com/f/...hydraulics.jpg or http://news.boldride.com/wp-content/...maro-ZL1-2.jpg


That's not just elitist it's obscenely elitist.


----------



## tomhorsley

lpwcomp said:


> Just out of curiosity, are you getting bad recordings so that you need to record the same episode multiple times to ensure that you get a good copy?


Yep. I want to archive the shows and I often get things like weather alerts, breaking news scrolls, or short cable signal glitches screwing up the show. I'd like to pick the best copy to save (or in one or two desperation cases, cut and paste bits from multiple copies to get one good one .


----------



## ajwees41

sure noticing it's taking longer than usuall when loading info, but still no 20.4.8.


----------



## Jed1

HarperVision said:


> But the RCN exec has nothing to do with retail TiVo's getting the update via priority or normal updating, so those dates could be true.


I am not concerned when the dates are but the fact that the retail units are not getting the new features first. 
The point is that the normal procedure was the consumer units always got the updates at least 3 months before the MSO units did. It appears that procedure may have changed were the MSO units are getting new features before or at least the same time the retail units are.

If this pattern holds up going forward then it is obvious that the retail units importance is taking a backseat to the MSO units.


----------



## Jepato

Certain lines should not be crossed..........like removing the thumbs up/down feature which is a longstanding trademark feature.


----------



## mrizzo80

Jed1 said:


> I am not concerned when the dates are but the fact that the retail units are not getting the new features first.
> The point is that the normal procedure was the consumer units always got the updates at least 3 months before the MSO units did. It appears that procedure may have changed were the MSO units are getting new features before or at least the same time the retail units are.
> 
> If this pattern holds up going forward then it is obvious that the retail units importance is taking a backseat to the MSO units.


The post from Nealis announcing RCN getting Plex on May 20th was in mid-April IIRC. That could have been the plan _then_. Is there a more recent post indicating RCN is definitely getting it on the 20th?


----------



## Jed1

mrizzo80 said:


> The post from Nealis announcing RCN getting Plex on May 20th was in mid-April IIRC. That could have been the plan _then_. Is there a more recent post indicating RCN is definitely getting it on the 20th?


That why I said that RCN is expecting the apps on May 20th. If that day holds true and the consumer units still do not have it or even get the apps at the same time then that will signify a change in the way updates are rolled out.

Face it the MSO unit numbers are based on the number of homes that MSO TiVo units are installed, which is around 5 million. On the retail side it goes by the number of units being used. 
Since there is more than one unit per household then the total number of homes that have retail TiVo units in them is quite small. I estimate it to be around 200,000 homes.
Just in the US there is about 80 million homes with cable and 30 million with satellite. This is out of a total of around 130 million homes in the US.
TiVo is probably realizing that there is no growth opportunities on the retail side going forward and are shifting their focus towards the needs of the MSOs.


----------



## astrohip

jcthorne said:


> Driven a Ford...Lately?


Yep, I own one of those too. I'm bothered that it has a better sound system than my BMW. But don't tell me it handles better.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Jed1 said:


> Since there is more than one unit per household then the total number of homes that have retail TiVo units in them is quite small. I estimate it to be around 200,000 homes.


With over 900K active retail subs, you're saying Tivo homes have an average of 4.5 Tivo devices? Just asking, because that's not likely even close.

It doesn't require napkin market analysis. The May 20th date has most likely slipped for everybody, quite simply.


----------



## jcthorne

astrohip said:


> Yep, I own one of those too. I'm bothered that it has a better sound system than my BMW. But don't tell me it handles better.


Not that Ford. This one:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_ohDgM8qrN5Rk1HQzJuOC1WelU

:up:

And yes, it handles better....faster too.


----------



## joewom

BigJimOutlaw said:


> With over 900K active retail subs, you're saying Tivo homes have an average of 4.5 Tivo devices? Just asking, because that's not likely even close.
> 
> It doesn't require napkin market analysis. The May 20th date has most likely slipped for everybody, quite simply.


might not be 4.5 but it certainly is probably at least 3. But it could be 4.5. Some might have 1 or 2 while others like myself with kids have 8. So average of 4.5 is not far fetched. And most of Tivo users like TV so it would not be a stretch to say they have more then one tv with more then one TIVO.


----------



## joewom

atmuscarella said:


> The part I highlighted in red is where we differ significantly. I no longer believe this, even if 50% of TiVo's stand alone user base wanted and used the video pod cast subscription download feature - if TiVo could make more or save allot of money by dumping it and going with the so called streaming option (which sucks) that they said replaces it, I believe that is what they would do. There is no incentive for TiVo to worry about this at all, the MSOs could care less and virtually no stand alone user is going to cancel or not buy a TiVo because of it, we might (and did) complain and be unhappy (and the same is true for the changes in season passes/one pass) but in the end there are still no better alternatives. Don't get me wrong TiVo has no real choice they have to maximize other revenue streams and cut costs where ever possible as the stand alone DVR market is at best a niche market. Hopefully something will change that and other players will come in to compete for our business until then it it what it is.


I agree mostly. But like I said TIVO is a company to make money. The only way I see them expanding the retail side is when cable cards are done away with and they go to a software solution that makes it easier to activate a TIVO. People don't want to have to go get a cable card and then call and go thru the hassle of it all. There are so many horror stories. I am quite tech savy but it kept me from getting a TIVO for a long time. ANd when I did I got one and tried it for a while. And I did go thru hell for 2 weeks to get a cable card activated.

But if you could do it say online and or TIVO do it for you before it even ships then you have a huge change in the market. So like it or not we all are at the whim of the cable side as that is what there focus is going to be. Becuase honestly when cable cards go away there is no guarantee the retail side of TIVO will survive if they do not place protections like cable cards did for 3rd party.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

joewom said:


> might not be 4.5 but it certainly is probably at least 3. But it could be 4.5. Some might have 1 or 2 while others like myself with kids have 8. So average of 4.5 is not far fetched. And most of Tivo users like TV so it would not be a stretch to say they have more then one tv with more then one TIVO.


The cablecard to customer ratio is ~1.4 based on NCTA reporting. That's a reasonable starting point since we know 90% of that is Tivo. The Mini bumps the number up a bit (maybe ~2 at absolute best) but not much more than that on account of time on the market, Minis that replace DVRs, and the many active 2-tuner DVRs that can't take advantage of it.


----------



## joblo

Previous post edited as follows:



joblo said:


> ...
> *Multiple 1Ps per show are implemented.*
> ...
> *ETA: It now appears I gave TiVo developers too much credit; the multiple 1P per show implementation is only partial.
> 
> 2015-05-14.2125 EDT: Looks like it is fully implemented, but TiVo decided to disable it. In fairness to TiVo, the way the developers did it, I think it's possible the suits found it too confusing to release. Whose idea it was to do it the way they did it, I could only speculate.


----------



## JWhites

I love how this entire thread has devolved into the retail and MSO business practices of TiVo, discussion about Ms. Schmidt, Ford, and a sounding board about some other stuff but barely anything about 20.4.8


----------



## joblo

JWhites said:


> I love how this entire thread has devolved into the retail and MSO business practices of TiVo, discussion about Ms. Schmidt, *Ford*, and a sounding board about some other stuff but barely anything about 20.4.8


Yeah, whoever would bring Ford into a thread like this...

Seems _waaay_ off topic to me.....................


----------



## joblo

Dan203 said:


> They're attempting to create a device that bridges the gap between traditional TV and streaming services.


Right, because first you build the bridge, then you cross it.



NYHeel said:


> You keep talking about removing DVR functionality and Tivo slowly turning into a streaming device as if it's somehow fact.
> ...
> But somehow Tivo is turning into a streaming device. Beyond ridiculous.


But since this is not about 20.4.8...

See this post, then tell me (in that thread) how ridiculous it is.


----------



## NYHeel

joblo said:


> Right, because first you build the bridge, then you cross it.
> 
> But since this is not about 20.4.8...
> 
> See this post, then tell me (in that thread) how ridiculous it is.


You posted links about cloud based DVR technology. While I wouldn't want a cloud based DVR, it's still a full fledged DVR with all the same features. The only difference is where the storage is. I wouldn't love it because sometimes Tivo's servers are down or my internet is down and now I can't watch TV. But the actual DVR functionality doesn't change.

Plus, all that stuff is being marketed to MSOs who also provide the cloud infrastructure and the data pipe. I don't believe this is being considered for retail DVRs.


----------



## lpwcomp

NYHeel said:


> You posted links about cloud based DVR technology. While I wouldn't want a cloud based DVR, it's still a full fledged DVR with all the same features. The only difference is where the storage is. I wouldn't love it because sometimes Tivo's servers are down or my internet is down and now I can't watch TV. But the actual DVR functionality doesn't change.


I disagree. The appliance in your home would _*not*_ be a DVR. All the actual DVR functionality would reside in the server. All you would have is a device to access and control your piece. Just like a terminal connected to a mainframe.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

NYHeel said:


> You posted links about cloud based DVR technology. While I wouldn't want a cloud based DVR, it's still a full fledged DVR with all the same features. The only difference is where the storage is....


Based upon what I've seen, in addition to the reliability issues you mention, cloud-based DVRs do not have the agility in fast forward and rewind when I'm trying to find a certain scene that the local-storage DVRs have.

And then there are the ISP data caps on usage....


----------



## joewom

JWhites said:


> I love how this entire thread has devolved into the retail and MSO business practices of TiVo, discussion about Ms. Schmidt, Ford, and a sounding board about some other stuff but barely anything about 20.4.8


That is because a select few are so stuck on some features coming back that every time it is announced an update is coming they jump on saying I hope X y and Z come back in this update.


----------



## atmuscarella

JWhites said:


> I love how this entire thread has devolved into the retail and MSO business practices of TiVo, discussion about Ms. Schmidt, Ford, and a sounding board about some other stuff but barely anything about 20.4.8





joewom said:


> That is because a select few are so stuck on some features coming back that every time it is announced an update is coming they jump on saying I hope X y and Z come back in this update.


Well as far as the 20.4.8 update is concerned this thread should have stopped with the first post until either the update was released or TiVo said something about the update. Given we are past 180 posts I guess the community wanted to take about other stuff.


----------



## JWhites

Agreed on both points. Mods should delete (or relocate) the subsequent posts and lock it after the initial post. Why they never do it I have no idea but this happens every time a priority update post is made. There are plenty of other threads on this forum that are intended for the bellyaching being displayed here, such as the TiVo Coffee House.


----------



## joblo

JWhites said:


> Mods should delete (or relocate) the subsequent posts and lock it after the initial post. Why they never do it I have no idea


You have no idea why volunteer workers don't spend all day rearranging forums to your satisfaction?!?

Two thoughts:

1. Volunteer yourself for that generally thankless job.

2. Start a new thread where you think the discussion belongs, post a link in the original thread, and invite people to move there. Doesn't always work, but it's better than throwing stones.


----------



## RoyK

joblo said:


> You have no idea why volunteer workers don't spend all day rearranging forums to your satisfaction?!?
> 
> Two thoughts:
> 
> 1. Volunteer yourself for that generally thankless job.
> 
> 2. Start a new thread where you think the discussion belongs, post a link in the original thread, and invite people to move there. Doesn't always work, but it's better than throwing stones.


He could even specify that we "low quality riff-raff" are asked to keep out. Oh, wait, the forum rules frown on that don't they?


----------



## JWhites

joblo said:


> Two thoughts:
> 
> 1. Volunteer yourself for that generally thankless job.
> 
> 2. Start a new thread where you think the discussion belongs, post a link in the original thread, and invite people to move there. Doesn't always work, but it's better than throwing stones.


To your first thought, I'd love to. If asked, I'll serve.

To your second thought,  Have a great day.


----------



## joewom

I'll never understand why people don't like people talking on a forum. Topics will cause stray and just live with it or don't read. Pretty simple.


----------



## morac

joewom said:


> I'll never understand why people don't like people talking on a forum. Topics will cause stray and just live with it or don't read. Pretty simple.


I don't know about him, but I subscribe to some topics to get notifications. For example people might subscribe to this topic to get a notification when 20.4.8 starts rolling out. Instead they get 180 email notifications about random stuff.


----------



## joewom

morac said:


> I don't know about him, but I subscribe to some topics to get notifications. For example people might subscribe to this topic to get a notification when 20.4.8 starts rolling out. Instead they get 180 email notifications about random stuff.


Got it then don't subscribe and check back every so often. It's easier on topics like this. And I am almost positive a new topic will be started when it does roll out so it won't help being subscribe unless someone post in this one too. But to expect it to stay 100% on topic is a little crazy.

And as many posts as you have you should already know that!


----------



## HarperVision

.


----------



## JWhites

morac said:


> I don't know about him, but I subscribe to some topics to get notifications. For example people might subscribe to this topic to get a notification when 20.4.8 starts rolling out. Instead they get 180 email notifications about random stuff.


Correct. I see a new post in a thread that has an interesting topic and I see it's off topic and I'm like . lol Some stray is expected within reason.


----------



## RoyK

JWhites said:


> Correct. I see a new post in a thread that has an interesting topic and I see it's off topic and I'm like . lol Some stray is expected within reason.


Like this one?


----------



## JWhites

RoyK said:


> Like this one?


No I don't think your post is one.

Anyway I'm really looking forward to the new software update, maybe it'll bring new features and a more polished UI. I was disappointed that the power save feature didn't allow the hard drives to spin down during inactive use. I know people are gonna go on about "it's a DVR" and "it should be running all the time for buffer" and all that jazz, but the more intense power save settings I've found turn off the buffering when activated and since suggestions also get turned off, there shouldn't be a reason why the drives can't spin down. When a scheduled recording is about to begin, just spin the drive up a minute in advance and we'd be good to go.


----------



## JoeKustra

JWhites said:


> No I don't think your post is one.
> [..]
> When a scheduled recording is about to begin, just spin the drive up a minute in advance and we'd be good to go.


I agree. It's just that a whole different mind set would be needed. There is no "off/standby" button like some other DVRs and most other devices. There could be an "extreme" power saver mode added. When in standby however, the HDD and the programs can still be accessed from a Mini or other TiVo, so some kind of "wake on LAN" feature might be needed. I would not expect to see the drive disable feature anytime in the near future. I'm not against it as an option, but some thought would be needed, and some feedback from us users (I hope).


----------



## BlackBetty

Anyone get this update yet??


----------



## ajwees41

BlackBetty said:


> Anyone get this update yet??


Nope and if it is loaded along with the plex update on June 8th getting close to 2 weeks out and haven't seen any one say the priority update went out yet.


----------



## JWhites

Now that we're into June, anyone gotten any updates?


----------



## drebbe

Nothing here. @TiVoSupport tweeted yesterday that "We have an update coming soon for Roamios at tivo.com/priority_20.4.8". But we know from bradleys experience that Plex runs on 20.4.7 and so a 20.4.8 release doesn't seem to be a requirement prior to the 8th.

As a side note they also tweeted yesterday, that "we will be launching a major website update very soon"


----------



## ajwees41

drebbe said:


> Nothing here. @TiVoSupport tweeted yesterday that "We have an update coming soon for Roamios at tivo.com/priority_20.4.8". But we know from bradleys experience that Plex runs on 20.4.7 and so a 20.4.8 release doesn't seem to be a requirement prior to the 8th.
> 
> As a side note they also tweeted yesterday, that "we will be launching a major website update very soon"


that's funny since the priority page still lists we are preparing to release a software update (20.4.8) for TiVo Roamio, TiVo Mini, and TiVo Premiere boxes.

so only Roamios get the 20.4.8 update?


----------



## drebbe

ajwees41 said:


> that's funny since the priority page still lists we are preparing to release a software update (20.4.8) for TiVo Roamio, TiVo Mini, and TiVo Premiere boxes.
> 
> so only Roamios get the 20.4.8 update?


I personally wouldn't take it that way. They were responding to a Roamio owner who had an issue that TiVo support hoped might be fixed with the 20.4.8 update . I don't think they meant to suggest the update was Roamio only.


----------



## tim1724

drebbe said:


> Nothing here. @TiVoSupport tweeted yesterday that "We have an update coming soon for Roamios at tivo.com/priority_20.4.8". But we know from bradleys experience that Plex runs on 20.4.7 and so a 20.4.8 release doesn't seem to be a requirement prior to the 8th.


Yes, it's pretty clear at this point that Plex will be entirely separate from 20.4.8.



> As a side note they also tweeted yesterday, that "we will be launching a major website update very soon"


An overhaul of TiVo.com is probably more exciting to me than 20.4.8 is  that website is barely functional at this point (and on some days not even that).


----------



## aggets

tim1724 said:


> an overhaul of tivo.com is probably more exciting to me than 20.4.8 is  that website is barely functional at this point (and on some days not even that).


+1


----------



## JWhites

tim1724 said:


> Yes, it's pretty clear at this point that Plex will be entirely separate from 20.4.8.
> 
> An overhaul of TiVo.com is probably more exciting to me than 20.4.8 is &#8230; that website is barely functional at this point (and on some days not even that).


I'm hoping they fix the website so all the dead links they suddenly created when they changed their support site works again. A lot of the info we linked from their website is still valid and important but if the links don't work it hinders, you know?


----------



## ej42137

JWhites said:


> I'm hoping they fix the website so all the dead links they suddenly created when they changed their support site works again. A lot of the info we linked from their website is still valid and important but if the links don't work it hinders, you know?


Me too, but I bet the links remain dead. They'll probably fix the search and validate the internal links but making the old links work would be a significant effort. And they've shown themselves to be pretty lazy regarding the support site.


----------



## zubinh

I gotta give Tivo some credit. Everytime there's an Apple iOS update, there is something majorly screwed up in it. Unlike Apple, Tivo actually_ improves_ the user experience with each update.


----------



## RoyK

zubinh said:


> I gotta give Tivo some credit. Everytime there's an Apple iOS update, there is something majorly screwed up in it. Unlike Apple, Tivo actually_ improves_ the user experience with each update.


I suppose you are entitled to your opinion. As far as I'm concerned the user experience was far better before OnePass.


----------



## slowbiscuit

zubinh said:


> I gotta give Tivo some credit. Everytime there's an Apple iOS update, there is something majorly screwed up in it. Unlike Apple, Tivo actually_ improves_ the user experience with each update.


Lately they've been better at it, but it's still two steps forward, one back in just about everything they do. There are a lot of things that leave you shaking your head like why the Android app is so bad OOH, or why mpeg4 channels aren't supported for streaming, or why the UI is not all HD. Stuff that you'd think would be done by now.


----------



## ajwees41

middle of June anyone have 20.4.8 yet?


----------



## lessd

ajwees41 said:


> middle of June anyone have 20.4.8 yet?


Don't know about anyone but I signed up the first day and as of Sunday I have not gotten that upgrade.


----------



## aaronwt

The same here. I noticed last night that I had not been updated.


----------



## Keen

I bet the Tivo Online rollout delayed the 20.4.8 update rollout.


----------



## bradleys

Remember, TiVo hasn't actually announced 20.4.8. We only know about it because the 20.4.8 early release page went live.

Was it supposed to go live? No way of knowing.


----------



## ajwees41

bradleys said:


> Remember, TiVo hasn't actually announced 20.4.8. We only know about it because the 20.4.8 early release page went live.
> 
> Was it supposed to go live? No way of knowing.


did they announce 20.4.7a as a bug fix to 20.4.7 which some went from 20.4.6 to 20.4.7a.


----------



## joewom

ajwees41 said:


> did they announce 20.4.7a as a bug fix to 20.4.7 which some went from 20.4.6 to 20.4.7a.


No but the priority page did not go live with a 20.4.7a either.


----------



## Balzer

Yea.. I just looked back and it was April 29th when the Priority Page for 20.4.8 was activated. I could be mistaken, but I don't think it's ever taken this long to get the update after the priority page was activated for a new release.

The priority page for 20.4.8 was activated. About a week or so later, we started getting the 20.4.7a update, which everyone received, so I doubt that had anything to do with the priority page.

And TivoMargret is still silent. She used to post something when the priority page is activated, as well as release notes. 

So now we are just waiting and wondering. I am hoping there is something new and cool with 20.4.8 (but not expecting anything new and cool). 

HBOGo would be nice... I currently use a Roku Stick for HBOGo and Showtime Anytime, and Chromecast for Starz Play, but would like those on the Tivo instead!


----------



## ajwees41

cox ondemand on Tivo is supposed to launching startig inJuly does something like that require a software update like 20.4.8, or just just enabled for cox customers?


----------



## Dan203

IIRC Cox ondemmand is going to be a pure IP service, so it'll likely just be an app and probably wont require an update.


----------



## sangs

Balzer said:


> And TivoMargret is still silent. She used to post something when the priority page is activated, as well as release notes.


I think she's checked out completely. I've sent her a couple emails for help with a Roamio that wasn't working properly - following her instructions from an earlier post a few months back - and am still waiting on a reply.


----------



## mrizzo80

sangs said:


> I think she's checked out completely. I've sent her a couple emails for help with a Roamio that wasn't working properly - following her instructions from an earlier post a few months back - and am still waiting on a reply.


I wonder if there is a UI refresh coming soon. I still like the current UI but it is now over 5 years old. There have been a few random hints over the last few months indicating one may be in the works.

Also, Zatz tweeted recently that he signed an NDA:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/608641326318530561
(He's pretty connected in the tech world so that could be for just about any company/product though.)


----------



## Dan203

The UI hasn't even been completely converted from the original SD design yet. I seriously doubt they're going to do a complete UI overhaul any time soon.


----------



## astrohip

sangs said:


> I think she's checked out completely. I've sent her a couple emails for help with a Roamio that wasn't working properly - following her instructions from an earlier post a few months back - and am still waiting on a reply.


She's tweeted a few times in the last month, about TiVo and/or industry related items. She's just for some reason not active here. AFAIK, she's just busy as she usually only checks in when there is something new to share with us.

YMMV.


----------



## tim1724

Dan203 said:


> The UI hasn't even been completely converted from the original SD design yet. I seriously doubt they're going to do a complete UI overhaul any time soon.


If TiVo were to overhaul the interface we'd undoubtedly end up with a mix of _three_ different UIs. *sigh*


----------



## compnurd

I doubt they would overhaul the UI soon.. The current one even 5 years old is way better than alot else out there now


----------



## lpwcomp

Changing something for the sake of change is moronic.


----------



## zalusky

lpwcomp said:


> Changing something for the sake of change is moronic.


Can you tell this to Microsoft and their office products team!


----------



## lpwcomp

zalusky said:


> Can you tell this to Microsoft and their office products team!


If only it was just their office products team.


----------



## sangs

astrohip said:


> She's tweeted a few times in the last month, about TiVo and/or industry related items. She's just for some reason not active here. AFAIK, she's just busy as she usually only checks in when there is something new to share with us.
> 
> YMMV.


Yeah, but her instructions from that thread were to e-mail her my Roamio number and she'd get back to me with a solution. But it's been nothing but crickets.


----------



## CharlesH

zalusky said:


> Can you tell this to Microsoft and their office products team!


Seeing the same comments on Android Play Store with respect to the Gmail and Inbox apps. Very annoying.


----------



## zalusky

lpwcomp said:


> If only it was just their office products team.


I was trying to be conservative but it but yea!

Not to derail the thread but I really hate this new style but a lot of people including Apple to hide all the menu/scroll bars/functions.

You go into a new app and you just cant find stuff anymore. I can understand some of it in full screen mode.


----------



## NashGuy

mrizzo80 said:


> I wonder if there is a UI refresh coming soon. I still like the current UI but it is now over 5 years old. There have been a few random hints over the last few months indicating one may be in the works.
> 
> Also, Zatz tweeted recently that he signed an NDA:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/608641326318530561
> (He's pretty connected in the tech world so that could be for just about any company/product though.)


I wonder about a refreshed UI as well. It's time. While I think the current UI looks fine, it does look a little dated to me. My guess is that the upcoming TiVo Aereo will sport the new UI and it will then roll out to Roamios and maybe Premieres. Are really big updates from TiVo usually a round number, eg 20.5 or 21.0 rather than 20.4.8?

To add fuel to the rumor mill:
http://zatznotfunny.com/2015-05/tivo-redesigns-iconic-thumbs/


----------



## CoxInPHX

sangs said:


> I think she's checked out completely. I've sent her a couple emails for help with a Roamio that wasn't working properly - following her instructions from an earlier post a few months back - and am still waiting on a reply.


Margret is still checking into this forum most everyday, and she did respond to my email just a few days ago. She got beat up pretty bad over the OnePass update, I don't blame her for just looking and not commenting at this time.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/member.php?u=198507
Last Activity: 06-15-2015 01:20 PM


----------



## RoyK

CoxInPHX said:


> Margret is still checking into this forum most everyday, and she did respond to my email just a few days ago. She got beat up pretty bad over the OnePass update, I don't blame her for just looking and not commenting at this time.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/member.php?u=198507
> Last Activity: 06-15-2015 01:20 PM


Interesting that her signature now says VP of Design instead of VP of Design & Engineering...


----------



## krkaufman

I haven't yet activated a PLEX account so can't get into the app, at present, but I recall seeing a PLEX app version of 2.4.8 in the lower right of the PLEX startup screen when I tried opening it up shortly after it was launched. Maybe 20.4.8 was just a bit of confusion associated with the PLEX app version?


----------



## krkaufman

NashGuy said:


> To add fuel to the rumor mill:
> http://zatznotfunny.com/2015-05/tivo-redesigns-iconic-thumbs/


I haven't streamed via TiVo Online, yet, so can't check for myself. Perhaps that's where the above, cleaner thumbs images have been deployed?

----------

I did just login to TiVo Online and find it curious (sadly ironic?) that:

the guide page includes a vertical "current time" marker;
the guide page includes channel icons rather than the often cryptic station IDs;

Also, I didn't see any thumbs icons anywhere during my brief visit.


----------



## slowbiscuit

CoxInPHX said:


> Margret is still checking into this forum most everyday, and she did respond to my email just a few days ago. She got beat up pretty bad over the OnePass update, I don't blame her for just looking and not commenting at this time.


I do - you have to be able to take the good with the bad. I really hate the attitude of well I'm only going to partcipate if forum folks only have good things to say about us. It's a complete cop-out when they abandon the most active Tivo community site because people aren't afraid to let them know when they're unhappy about stuff like 1P. But this is their culture - we're all supposed to be happy that we get anything from them because we don't have a lot of other choices. If you try to tell this emporer about the new clothes, he runs away.


----------



## bcronin

I'm not sure I'd keep coming back to a place that I was constantly getting beaten up in, unless I was required to (and even then, I might seriously consider getting a different job if it got bad enough). I think perhaps the best approach might be to try to treat people with kindness and respect, even though there might be serious disagreements. But whatever. That's just me.
--
bc


----------



## rhinoj

bcronin said:


> i'm not sure i'd keep coming back to a place that i was constantly getting beaten up in, unless i was required to (and even then, i might seriously consider getting a different job if it got bad enough). I think perhaps the best approach might be to try to treat people with kindness and respect, even though there might be serious disagreements. But whatever. That's just me.
> --
> bc


+1


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Yeah, it's one thing to tell somebody something. It's another to pillory them. And it's another yet to pillory them repeatedly and mercilessly for the same things.


----------



## RoyK

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, it's one thing to tell somebody something. It's another to pillory them. And it's another yet to pillory them repeatedly and mercilessly for the same things.


And yet we must deal repeatedly with the results of the poor design decisions and sloppy implementation of 1P. We aren't talking here about picking on some poor person just doing a job. We are discussing the executive in charge of all of this. At that level one either takes the heat or, well you know, stays out of the kitchen. Obviously she has chosen the second option.


----------



## krkaufman

slowbiscuit said:


> ... when they abandon *the most active Tivo community site*...


Are there others?


----------



## Dan203

They have an official forum on their own site that is actively monitored by TiVo employees.


----------



## CloudAtlas

RoyK said:


> At that level one either takes the heat or, well you know, stays out of the kitchen. Obviously she has chosen the second option.


More like...

* At that level one either takes the crazies or, well you know, stays out of the insane asylum. Obviously she has chosen the second option.

* At that level one either takes the continued bullying & verbal abuse or, well you know, gets out of the marriage. Obviously she has chosen the second option.


----------



## HarperVision

krkaufman said:


> Are there others?





Dan203 said:


> They have an official forum on their own site that is actively monitored by TiVo employees.


And there's TiVo talk over at avsforum too.


----------



## RoyK

CloudAtlas said:


> More like...
> 
> * At that level one either takes the crazies or, well you know, stays out of the insane asylum. Obviously she has chosen the second option.
> 
> * At that level one either takes the continued bullying & verbal abuse or, well you know, gets out of the marriage. Obviously she has chosen the second option.


Finding fault with design decisions, pointing out software defects and discrepancies and debunking workarounds that flat out don't work isn't crazy nor is attributing them to the person responsible abusive.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

RoyK said:


> Finding fault with design decisions, pointing out software defects and discrepancies and debunking workarounds that flat out don't work isn't crazy nor is attributing them to the person responsible abusive.


But the intensity, abusiveness, and repetitiveness which which she was attacked, while perhaps not out of the norm on the internet, in human terms was pretty damn crazy.


----------



## Dan203

HarperVision said:


> And there's TiVo talk over at avsforum too.


It's funny because that's where this site came from. Originally it was a single forum on AVS, which David Bott then owned. Then it got so popular they spun it off into it's own site but the link on AVS would still take you here. Then David sold both sites and apparently AVS added back their own TiVo section again.


----------



## astrohip

CoxInPHX said:


> Margret is still checking into this forum most everyday, and she did respond to my email just a few days ago. She got beat up pretty bad over the OnePass update, I don't blame her for just looking and not commenting at this time.


I really don't think that's it. She's never been afraid to take the heat before. Even when OP first came out, she responded to every post that needed one. Regardless of the tone. She believes in what she does, and is here to help us when we need it.

Having said that... she tends to be visible when there is a new release, or some specific reason for her to be active and responsive. And the rest of the time, she's very quiet. Dormant.

So I don't think this is her avoiding us; she's too strong for that. I simply think there's no reason for her to spend her precious time here, when there's no big news.

my .02


----------



## HarperVision

Dan203 said:


> It's funny because that's where this site came from. Originally it was a single forum on AVS, which David Bott then owned. Then it got so popular they spun it off into it's own site but the link on AVS would still take you here. Then David sold both sites and apparently AVS added back their own TiVo section again.


Yep, I've been there almost from the beginning. I used to meet up with Dave, Laurie and the gang at CES and CEDIA shows when I worked with AVS and TAW. Oh the memories. Fun times!


----------



## HarperVision

astrohip said:


> I really don't think that's it. She's never been afraid to take the heat before. Even when OP first came out, she responded to every post that needed one. Regardless of the tone. She believes in what she does, and is here to help us when we need it. Having said that... she tends to be visible when there is a new release, or some specific reason for her to be active and responsive. And the rest of the time, she's very quiet. Dormant. So I don't think this is her avoiding us; she's too strong for that. I simply think there's no reason for her to spend her precious time here, when there's no big news. my .02


Dang I just gotta say Astrohip, that grandbaby just keeps getting cuter and cuter!!! :up:


----------



## ajwees41

astrohip said:


> I really don't think that's it. She's never been afraid to take the heat before. Even when OP first came out, she responded to every post that needed one. Regardless of the tone. She believes in what she does, and is here to help us when we need it.
> 
> Having said that... she tends to be visible when there is a new release, or some specific reason for her to be active and responsive. And the rest of the time, she's very quiet. Dormant.
> 
> So I don't think this is her avoiding us; she's too strong for that. I simply think there's no reason for her to spend her precious time here, when there's no big news.
> 
> my .02


. With no mention by her about 20.4.8 it might be a premature early release maybe it's not ready


----------



## ajwees41

astrohip said:


> I really don't think that's it. She's never been afraid to take the heat before. Even when OP first came out, she responded to every post that needed one. Regardless of the tone. She believes in what she does, and is here to help us when we need it.
> 
> Having said that... she tends to be visible when there is a new release, or some specific reason for her to be active and responsive. And the rest of the time, she's very quiet. Dormant.
> 
> So I don't think this is her avoiding us; she's too strong for that. I simply think there's no reason for her to spend her precious time here, when there's no big news.
> 
> my .02


. With no mention by her about 20.4.8 it might be a premature early release on the priority list at least.


----------



## Dan203

HarperVision said:


> Yep, I've been there almost from the beginning. I used to meet up with Dave, Laurie and the gang at CES and CEDIA shows when I worked with AVS and TAW. Oh the memories. Fun times!


I never really did much with AVS except when the TiVo board was still part of it, but I've been here since the start. (over 15 years now according to my join date )


----------



## astrohip

HarperVision said:


> Dang I just gotta say Astrohip, that grandbaby just keeps getting cuter and cuter!!! :up:


Thanks! [totally off topic...] His parents live in Atlanta (our D & SIL), and we're in Houston. While we've visited several times, next week he's coming for his first visit here. I'm hoping you won't see me online much!



ajwees41 said:


> . With no mention by her about 20.4.8 it might be a premature early release maybe it's not ready


 Not clear exactly what you're saying, perhaps it's since 20.4.8 hasn't been released yet, there's no reason she should frequent these forum at this time.


----------



## ajwees41

astrohip said:


> Thanks! [totally off topic...] His parents live in Atlanta (our D & SIL), and we're in Houston. While we've visited several times, next week he's coming for his first visit here. I'm hoping you won't see me online much!
> 
> Not clear exactly what you're saying, perhaps it's since 20.4.8 hasn't been released yet, there's no reason she should frequent these forum at this time.


that is what I meant the 20.4.8 might not be be ready, but someone opened the priority list/page early.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But the intensity, abusiveness, and repetitiveness which which she was attacked, while perhaps not out of the norm on the internet, in human terms was pretty damn crazy.


I'm not following how she was personally attacked (repeatedly) in any of the 1P discussions. People were simply unhappy that Tivo yet again made a design decision for us without proper research on the impact.

Look - the bottom line here is that you either want to rep your company or you don't. You have to have a thick skin and be able to handle criticism when your pet project drops an egg (in many customer's eyes) and not just pick up your ball and leave.


----------



## Sixto

My experience is that when a higher up key person at a public company posts in a public user forum, that it's best to treat them special and somewhat as a honored guest in your home, because they're probably doing it in their spare time and they certainly don't need to. Their information is usually well beyond what you'd get through the normal channels, and personally, I always treat them kindly and am careful with any public comments toward them, because they can disappear as quickly as they appear.

Experience has also shown that some members either don't agree or don't understand this concept, and feel that any employee who posts on a public forum is fair game and needs to take the heat. That may be fine, and everyone has a right to their own opinion, but what I've seen happen usually is then that special guest stops posting, simple as that. 

Have seen this exact scenario play out multiple times, with usually the same result every time.


----------



## L David Matheny

Sixto said:


> My experience is that when a higher up key person at a public company posts in a public user forum, that it's best to treat them special and somewhat as a honored guest in your home, because they're probably doing it in their spare time and they certainly don't need to. Their information is usually well beyond what you'd get through the normal channels, and personally, I always treat them kindly and am careful with any public comments toward them, because they can disappear as quickly as they appear.
> 
> Experience has also shown that some members either don't agree or don't understand this concept, and feel that any employee who posts on a public forum is fair game and needs to take the heat. That may be fine, and everyone has a right to their own opinion, but what I've seen happen usually is then that special guest stops posting, simple as that.
> 
> Have seen this exact scenario play out multiple times, with usually the same result every time.


I agree with you that common courtesy is always preferable. OTOH, regardless of any lack of civility by some members here, TiVo in general and Margret in particular should be capable of recognizing that they can learn from the discussions here, and it is in their corporate interest to insure that some employees at least read these forums. Posting is more optional.


----------



## MichaelAinNB

I don't think asking Margaret or another TiVo Rep to take 30 seconds and write a sentence or two providing an update on the status of the release of 20.4.8 is too much to ask.
Wasn't the 8th of this month the targeted release date, or was that for Plex?


----------



## innocentfreak

MichaelAinNB said:


> I don't think asking Margaret or another TiVo Rep to take 30 seconds and write a sentence or two providing an update on the status of the release of 20.4.8 is too much to ask.
> Wasn't the 8th of this month the targeted release date, or was that for Plex?


That was initially a rumored release for Plex.

Margret usually tweets out the priority page is live when the release is imminent. People here just monitor the page for changes and post when the page has changed. She has yet to announce to the general populace that the priority page has even gone live.


----------



## MichaelAinNB

innocentfreak said:


> That was initially a rumored release for Plex.
> 
> Margret usually tweets out the priority page is live when the release is imminent. People here just monitor the page for changes and post when the page has changed. She has yet to announce to the general populace that the priority page has even gone live.


Got it. Thanks for the quick reply.


----------



## ajwees41

innocentfreak said:


> That was initially a rumored release for Plex.
> 
> Margret usually tweets out the priority page is live when the release is imminent. People here just monitor the page for changes and post when the page has changed. She has yet to announce to the general populace that the priority page has even gone live.


has it ever been live this long before though she said anything?


----------



## abovethesink

ajwees41 said:


> has it ever been live this long before though she said anything?


Maybe? Who is to say it hasn't gone up early every time and just no one had ever noticed before?


----------



## astrohip

MichaelAinNB said:


> I don't think asking Margaret or another TiVo Rep to take 30 seconds and write a sentence or two providing an update on the status of the release of 20.4.8 is too much to ask.


I think it is. I'm sure they're busy with whatever it is they do. Just because WE want updates doesn't mean we should get them. And what's she going to say, "coming soon". No matter what she says, she gets pilloried for an answer someone doesn't like. And how many tech companies have a VP level person give out "updates".

We'll get it when we get it. She'll surface then, as she always does. Many of you seem to think she's avoiding us, but if you think about her history here, she tends to surface when a new release comes out, or when there is a significant one-off problem she wants to nail down. The rest of the time, she works.

Let it go people...


----------



## MichaelAinNB

astrohip said:


> I think it is. I'm sure they're busy with whatever it is they do. Just because WE want updates doesn't mean we should get them. And what's she going to say, "coming soon". No matter what she says, she gets pilloried for an answer someone doesn't like. And how many tech companies have a VP level person give out "updates".
> 
> We'll get it when we get it. She'll surface then, as she always does. Many of you seem to think she's avoiding us, but if you think about her history here, she tends to surface when a new release comes out, or when there is a significant one-off problem she wants to nail down. The rest of the time, she works.
> 
> Let it go people...


Yes, I'm sure Margaret is sooooooooo busy at work five days a week, that she can't take 30 seconds to write an update on this board. And yes, I would be OK with a "coming soon." That's more than we've gotten. Even something simple like, "Hey guys...I'm sorry but I can't provide a timeline for the next update. All I can suggest is that you stay tuned. And, as always, thank you for being devoted TiVo customers!" That took about 12 seconds to write. Are you really telling me Margaret doesn't have a free 12 seconds in her day? 
And, just to remind you, the "WE" you're referring to are TiVo's customers. We're the people responsible for TiVo being in business and Margaret having a job. I'm guessing you're not a business owner - or not a successful business owner.


----------



## compnurd

MichaelAinNB said:


> Yes, I'm sure Margaret is sooooooooo busy at work five days a week, that she can't take 30 seconds to write an update on this board. And yes, I would be OK with a "coming soon." That's more than we've gotten. Even something simple like, "Hey guys...I'm sorry but I can't provide a timeline for the next update. All I can suggest is that you stay tuned. And, as always, thank you for being devoted TiVo customers!" That took about 12 seconds to write. Are you really telling me Margaret doesn't have a free 12 seconds in her day?
> And, just to remind you, the "WE" you're referring to are TiVo's customers. We're the people responsible for TiVo being in business and Margaret having a job. I'm guessing you're not a business owner - or not a successful business owner.


How do you know she doesnt have 12 seconds.... Trying being a Senior Manager at a company some time and tell us how much free time you have


----------



## MichaelAinNB

compnurd said:


> How do you know she doesnt have 12 seconds.... Trying being a Senior Manager at a company some time and tell us how much free time you have


Ironically, I have been a senior manager at a company. An extremely successful company. Why? Because I made sure I, as well as my employees put not only the needs but also the WANTS of our customers first. It's called customer service. Quite frankly, if Margaret can't manage her time well enough to give her customers *12 seconds* of her time, she has no business being in the position she's in.


----------



## CoxInPHX

^^^^
Enough, this certainly isn't going to produce results.


----------



## Joe01880

MichaelAinNB said:


> Ironically, I have been a senior manager at a company. An extremely successful company. Why? Because I made sure I, as well as my employees put not only the needs but also the WANTS of our customers first. It's called customer service. Quite frankly, if Margaret can't manage her time well enough to give her customers *12 seconds* of her time, she has no business being in the position she's in.


Maybe you need to stick to running your own business and chill out about Margaret.
Funny how she's some y'all's best bud then when you don't get what you want you revert to acting like 1st graders.
Margaret is one of the few TiVo employees who pays us a visit from time to time. Thanks for doing your part to run her off too.
What did you say the name of your business is again, so I and everyone I can convince can avoid it?

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


----------



## morac

MichaelAinNB said:


> Ironically, I have been a senior manager at a company. An extremely successful company. Why? Because I made sure I, as well as my employees put not only the needs but also the WANTS of our customers first. It's called customer service. Quite frankly, if Margaret can't manage her time well enough to give her customers *12 seconds* of her time, she has no business being in the position she's in.


Margret is a Vice President. It's unusual for anyone at that level to interact directly with customers to begin with, let alone at a third party message board.


----------



## nickg420

MichaelAinNB said:


> Ironically, I have been a senior manager at a company. An extremely successful company. Why? Because I made sure I, as well as my employees put not only the needs but also the WANTS of our customers first. It's called customer service. Quite frankly, if Margaret can't manage her time well enough to give her customers *12 seconds* of her time, she has no business being in the position she's in.


Ironically, most Senior Managers, whom I have had the pleasure of working with, understand how to avoid run on sentences and comma placement.

Grammar...It's an useful thing.

I am a Senior Level Manager in my current role. I can tell you, first hand, most customers have no idea what they want. You cannot successfully run a business trying to give every idea or complaint a customer has room in your agenda to contend with.

You don't like One Pass. Great...We get it. I would submit that for every one of you there are probably 3 that enjoy it. They just are not here voicing their opinions on how great it is. They are too busy enjoying it. You assume "everyone hates 1P" because you frequent a minority forum where, most people, are only going to take the time to acknowledge the negative parts of their experience. It is a skewed view of reality.

The second thing I can't understand, Manager to Manager, is your unbelievable sense of entitlement. This is one of the biggest pet peeves of most Managers I work with. So it strikes me as odd that you, as a Senior Manager, somehow feel you are entitled to a VP level employee addressing your concerns on a public forum where you are lucky she even knows exists in the first place.

Finally, I would suggest you take a deep breath. Have some tea with lemon and honey. Schedule a massage, even a pedicure. Just relax...Life's far too short to waste your time concerned about a VP "refusing" to give you the explanation or update you feel you deserve.

Just my .02 cents, but then...What the heck do I know?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

nickg420 said:


> The second thing I can't understand, Manager to Manager, is your unbelievable sense of entitlement.


You must be new to the 21st Century...


----------



## chiguy50

nickg420 said:


> Ironically, most Senior Managers*,* whom I have had the pleasure of working with*,* understand how to avoid *run on* sentences and comma placement *[errors]*.
> 
> Grammar...It's an useful thing.


I agree with everything you wrote; however (ironically) both of your first two sentences contain the very grammar and comma usage errors you lament in OP's writing--as highlighted above. Not to mention syntax.


----------



## sangs

chiguy50 said:


> I agree with everything you wrote; however (ironically) both of your first two sentences contain the very grammar and comma usage errors you lament in OP's writing--as highlighted above. Not to mention syntax.


Always satisfying when the grammar police fail miserably, isn't it?


----------



## chiguy50

sangs said:


> Always satisfying when the grammar police fail miserably, isn't it?


Hey, I resemble that remark!

Nobody's perfect, and I am hesitant to correct writing in on-line fora since a lot of it is just slapped together without a lot of thought--maybe even on a hand-held device that promotes misspellings. But I couldn't resist the irony of this one.

Otherwise, as I noted, I heartily concur with OP's sentiments.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

There are words for people who know that the plural of forum is fora.

And we probably deserve them.


----------



## nickg420

chiguy50 said:


> I agree with everything you wrote; however (ironically) both of your first two sentences contain the very grammar and comma usage errors you lament in OP's writing--as highlighted above. Not to mention syntax.


I respectfully disagree with your choice of comma placement. However, the "run on" was an auto-correct I didn't catch.

The "a vs an" gets me sometimes on a word like "useful". While I knew "an useful thing" did not sound correct, the rule is if the word begins with a vowel sound you use "an". "Useful" certainly seems to fit that rule.

Either way...I take on your constructive criticism and give thanks that the point was not lost in the details.


----------



## krkaufman

Unsubscribe. Waiting for s/w releases can be painful enough, already. Sheesh...!


----------



## samccfl99

nickg420 said:


> Grammar...It's an useful thing.
> 
> I am a Senior Level Manager in my current role. I can tell you, first hand, most customers have no idea what they want.
> 
> You don't like One Pass. Great...We get it. It is a skewed view of reality.
> 
> you are lucky she even knows exists in the first place.
> 
> Finally, I would suggest you take a deep breath. Have some tea with lemon and honey. Schedule a massage, even a pedicure. Just relax...Life's far too short to waste your time concerned about a VP "refusing" to give you the explanation or update you feel you deserve.
> 
> Just my .02 cents, but then...What the heck do I know?


So I used snippets of this post that represents TiVoCommunity.com (not really singling out the poster). *I really was not going to post, and look what you made me do...*

Nothing has changed since I came here to look before 20.4.7 came out. Many of you are still grammar nuts and JUST PLAIN NUTS. My opinion is the same as the one (MichaelAinNB) you seem to be hammering on at the moment, as I was once (oooo, and I got 2 infractions because of some tattle tails). One who thinks that for the amount of money we pay for the equipment and service, AND YES, UPDATES, that we should get some info about updates OR SOME ACTUAL REAL UPDATES (LOL for emphasis). So now that there seems to be FOUR updates a year, as it should be, THERE IS REALLY NOTHING IN THEM, and for the record, I love OnePass (20.4.6 + 6a, because they cannot get it right on the first time EVER) only because of the link to the streaming services. If you do not have a streaming service, then there is no reason to complain about it. So basically there is no reason to complain about it at all.

I talked to a Tivo rep a week or so ago to ask them about PLEX (waste) and then I asked her about 20.4.8 and she jabbered away about having to fill something out recently about it and then she could not remember anything about it. I only wanted to know if there was ANYTHING in it. Oh well.

*Lastly I will say this again, the basic DVR software needs work and has for a LONG time. I really believe there is no one there anymore who even knows how to modify it. My list is simple. 15 minute tics always no matter the length of the recording. Add a 4th FF + REV speed. Make a screen that lists the last several things you have watched so it does not take 5 or more key presses to get back to where you were. (Have you seen a Comcast X1? Not that I would ever have one!). Very simple. Oh yes, and take out all the stupid ARE YOU OK messages and really, we still are asked if we want to change the channel on the other tuner (rarely, I will give you that), among other annoying things.*

So for those of you who remember me and also remember I said I would not be back because of the absolute rudeness of some of you, well I am not back. Just checking in because of the 20.4.8, which i still have not read anywhere about what is in it, IF ANYTHING, I repeat. Oh, and also I have tried to capitalize and use good grammar on this post. Have a nice day! 

*and sorry this has been another long post from me, which I do do (ok, so the grammar ain't so great in this sentence...) and they do take a long time to write and edit...

OK, LET ME HAVE IT NOW!!!! 
*


----------



## chiguy50

Rob Helmerichs said:


> There are words for people who know that the plural of forum is fora.
> 
> And we probably deserve them.


Pedant? 



nickg420 said:


> I respectfully disagree with your choice of comma placement.


You are free to disagree; however, you would be wrong. 

Basically speaking, the determinant here is whether the relative clause is restrictive or descriptive; if the clause is restrictive (i.e., necessary to the identity of the antecedent) then no commas are used, if merely descriptive then it is usually set off by commas. A descriptive relative clause can be omitted from the sentence without any loss of clarity. Examples:

Managers who have an MBA are a valuable addition to our staff. (delineates the specific managers being referenced and is thus restrictive)

Managers, who fulfill a useful function, are a valuable addition to our staff. (merely descriptive)



nickg420 said:


> The "a vs an" gets me sometimes on a word like "useful". While I knew "an useful thing" did not sound correct, the rule is if the word begins with a vowel sound you use "an". "Useful" certainly seems to fit that rule.


Phonetically speaking, the word "useful" begins with a consonant sound (/'ju:ʒəl/) and thus requires the indefinite article "a" vice "an."



nickg420 said:


> Either way...I take on your constructive criticism and give thanks that the point was not lost in the details.


Your point was well made IMHO.

And for those who find this discussion boring, I apologize for the OT comments, which are offered in hope that at least the poster to whom I am responding will find them instructive.


----------



## nickg420

samccfl99 said:


> OK, LET ME HAVE IT NOW!!!!
> [/COLOR][/SIZE][/I][/B]


Mr. samccfl99, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this forum is now dumber for having read it. I not only award you no points, but may God have mercy on your soul.

Just kidding...I love that movie


----------



## NYHeel

nickg420 said:


> I respectfully disagree with your choice of comma placement. However, the "run on" was an auto-correct I didn't catch.
> 
> The "a vs an" gets me sometimes on a word like "useful". While I knew "an useful thing" did not sound correct, the rule is if the word begins with a vowel sound you use "an". "Useful" certainly seems to fit that rule.
> 
> Either way...I take on your constructive criticism and give thanks that the point was not lost in the details.


The a vs. an rule goes by sound and useful does not begin with a vowel sound and therefore you should use "a" and not "an".


----------



## NYHeel

samccfl99 said:


> So I used snippets of this post that represents TiVoCommunity.com (not really singling out the poster). *I really was not going to post, and look what you made me do...*
> 
> Nothing has changed since I came here to look before 20.4.7 came out. Many of you are still grammar nuts and JUST PLAIN NUTS. My opinion is the same as the one (MichaelAinNB) you seem to be hammering on at the moment, as I was once (oooo, and I got 2 infractions because of some tattle tails). One who thinks that for the amount of money we pay for the equipment and service, AND YES, UPDATES, that we should get some info about updates OR SOME ACTUAL REAL UPDATES (LOL for emphasis). So now that there seems to be FOUR updates a year, as it should be, THERE IS REALLY NOTHING IN THEM, and for the record, I love OnePass (20.4.6 + 6a, because they cannot get it right on the first time EVER) only because of the link to the streaming services. If you do not have a streaming service, then there is no reason to complain about it. So basically there is no reason to complain about it at all.
> 
> I talked to a Tivo rep a week or so ago to ask them about PLEX (waste) and then I asked her about 20.4.8 and she jabbered away about having to fill something out recently about it and then she could not remember anything about it. I only wanted to know if there was ANYTHING in it. Oh well.
> 
> *Lastly I will say this again, the basic DVR software needs work and has for a LONG time. I really believe there is no one there anymore who even knows how to modify it. My list is simple. 15 minute tics always no matter the length of the recording. Add a 4th FF + REV speed. Make a screen that lists the last several things you have watched so it does not take 5 or more key presses to get back to where you were. (Have you seen a Comcast X1? Not that I would ever have one!). Very simple. Oh yes, and take out all the stupid ARE YOU OK messages and really, we still are asked if we want to change the channel on the other tuner (rarely, I will give you that), among other annoying things.*
> 
> So for those of you who remember me and also remember I said I would not be back because of the absolute rudeness of some of you, well I am not back. Just checking in because of the 20.4.8, which i still have not read anywhere about what is in it, IF ANYTHING, I repeat. Oh, and also I have tried to capitalize and use good grammar on this post. Have a nice day!
> 
> *and sorry this has been another long post from me, which I do do (ok, so the grammar ain't so great in this sentence...) and they do take a long time to write and edit...
> 
> OK, LET ME HAVE IT NOW!!!!
> *


OK, I'll bite. What "Are you OK" messages are you talking about?

There are some nuances in the DVR software that could be improved. Specifically, I have many issues with holding the current place in watching a recording that is still currently being recorded. Frequently happens during baseball games where I find it very irritating to watch a game still going on from the My Shows list since it loses the pause point when you leave the recording and come back.

But in regards to your comments, sure 15 minute skip to ticks would be nice but it would make the progress bar impossible to see clearly during really long 4 hour recordings. I usually pad a football game by an hour and if there were 16 ticks on the bar it would be hard to tell exactly where I am on a recording (which I like to do sometimes).

A 4th FF or Rewind speed is fine but not the end of the world. I can't imagine there have been more than 2 or 3 times in the last 5 years where I would have wanted that. Skip to tick and 30 second skip usually works fine for me.

Your list of 5 recently watched shows seems foolish since I usually delete a show when I'm done watching it. Plus if you're watching a recording and then hit live tv, the left arrow button takes you right back to the point in the My Shows list where the last thing you were watching is. So it's 2 button presses to get back to where you were. I don't think they need some 5 recently watched shows list.


----------



## ADG

Rob Helmerichs said:


> There are words for people who know that the plural of forum is fora.
> 
> And we probably deserve them.


Well, the _Latin _plural of forum is "fora", but the Anglicized version "forums" is equally correct, both in terms of grammar AND common usage. When I feel like being a smartass (which isn't as often as it was when I was younger  ) I'll say fora or stadia rather than forums or stadiums. But I ALWAYS treat "data" " as plural when used as a counting noun (ie., " most of the available data support my view") and I say "medium" when referring to one newspaper or one network, etc.

Common usage has overtaken and replaced many grammatical rules that either don't seem to make sense or don't sound right, and it is widely accepted as correct these days. But as a bit of an English Language snob, I do find my self wincing now and then


----------



## samccfl99

nickg420 said:


> Mr. samccfl99, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this forum is now dumber for having read it. I not only award you no points, but may God have mercy on your soul.
> 
> Just kidding...I love that movie


My point exactly. YOU SIR, are a new one of those that I have spoken of and I am sure THOSE other 3 will come out of the woodwork soon. I ramble? Whatever, I just speak the truth of someone who has had many DVR's since the late 1990's and has been in I.T. for over 25 years and have been online since BBS's were around using 2400 Baud modems. But what do I know? Please, no answer required, but I doubt that will be possible for you as it is for me!


----------



## samccfl99

NYHeel said:


> OK, I'll bite. What "Are you OK" messages are you talking about?


Let us see. How about when you schedule a onepass recording. OK! Make a change to a scheduled recording. OK! Delete a recording. OK! Delete a To Do List Item. OK! and of course my favorite one about changing the tuner. Hello!!! Anyone who has less than 4 tuners (ok, in their bedrooms maybe), need to get the checkbook out and buy a new Tivo. Sorry.

As for My Shows and the entry positioning. THANK YOU, I so agree. STUPIDO, but how to fix it correctly?

Did you know that DISH used to have a 300X speed? Tivo speed 3 is slow as nails and ever since 20.4.6 they have destroyed how it does FF/REW in my opinion. Seems to go in spurts sometimes, of course which they will not admit.

Could not see progress bar with all those tics? What is there to see?

Have you never interrupted something you were watching and went to something else? Actually after 3 years I recently found out about using the back button. Of course if, as you pointed out before, change the entry position in My Shows while watching something and then you cannot just use the back button, can you?

How about when you are 5 minutes before the end of a recording and you want to look ahead in My Shows? Keep or Delete message. That is sometimes good and sometimes not.

I will end with this gem. A while ago I discovered that when you rebooted, within a Folder in My Shows, the current entry would be at the top and not where you left off. Anyone who has Netflix will understand this. Well I did complain to my contact in Executive Customer Support (and now she is Level 2 support and we cannot get to them anymore) and she actually got them to fix this on the very next update, I do believe. Well the problem was that they were obviously using a global pointer for all folders and THOSE PEOPLE (developers in CA) went to all the trouble to fix it and then THEY NEVER SAVED THE POINTERS so when you reboot, again ALL entries in all folders were pointing to the top position and they still have not fixed it in 3 updates. Great project managers, etc out there.

Oh, I am sorry to go on and on. But I do love my Roamio Pro with the 450 hours of HD storage and all six tuners buffering all the time (should be 60 min, not 30 saved) and the 2 sided guide, and yes, OnePass.

You sir, are intelligent and not snotty like many here. Thank you for the constructive criticism (ok, thats not spelled right I think AND how come this dumb editor does not capitalize the word "I"???) LOL


----------



## MichaelAinNB

nickg420 said:


> Ironically, most Senior Managers, whom I have had the pleasure of working with, understand how to avoid run on sentences and comma placement.
> 
> Grammar...It's an useful thing.
> 
> I am a Senior Level Manager in my current role. I can tell you, first hand, most customers have no idea what they want. You cannot successfully run a business trying to give every idea or complaint a customer has room in your agenda to contend with.
> 
> You don't like One Pass. Great...We get it. I would submit that for every one of you there are probably 3 that enjoy it. They just are not here voicing their opinions on how great it is. They are too busy enjoying it. You assume "everyone hates 1P" because you frequent a minority forum where, most people, are only going to take the time to acknowledge the negative parts of their experience. It is a skewed view of reality.
> 
> The second thing I can't understand, Manager to Manager, is your unbelievable sense of entitlement. This is one of the biggest pet peeves of most Managers I work with. So it strikes me as odd that you, as a Senior Manager, somehow feel you are entitled to a VP level employee addressing your concerns on a public forum where you are lucky she even knows exists in the first place.
> 
> Finally, I would suggest you take a deep breath. Have some tea with lemon and honey. Schedule a massage, even a pedicure. Just relax...Life's far too short to waste your time concerned about a VP "refusing" to give you the explanation or update you feel you deserve.
> 
> Just my .02 cents, but then...What the heck do I know?


How long did it take you to write that response, Mr. Senior Manager/Grammar Police? I am guessing several minutes, at the very least. Yet you, and a couple others here are trying to tell me that aTiVo Senior Manager doesn't have 12 seconds available to post an update on the status of 20.4.8?


----------



## gamo62

Every time TiVo releases new hardware, the previous version gets somewhat neglected. Premiere owners, I feel your pain. Looks like that is what is going on now. Just saying. It was like that when the TiVoHD was released. Series 3 owners were put on the back burner. 

Posted via Tapatalk


----------



## trip1eX

samccfl99 said:


> * My list is simple. 15 minute tics always no matter the length of the recording. Add a 4th FF + REV speed. Make a screen that lists the last several things you have watched so it does not take 5 or more key presses to get back to where you were. Oh yes, and take out all the stupid ARE YOU OK messages and really, we still are asked if we want to change the channel on the other tuner (rarely, I will give you that), among other annoying things.*


The first and last are needed. For sports recordings, it sucks to ff if your tick marks are an hour apart. Even sucks with a 1/2 hr. So either give me a faster fast forwarding feature at least in longer recordings or shorter tick marks

Same thing with the ok-ing of stuff. It's especially bad on the Mini where you have a bit more lag and then an extra key press on top of it in order to record something from the guide (for example.)

There are many examples of how they could make little refinements that would add up. Hitting clear to delete a Onepass or scheduled recording should just send it to the recently deleted folder instead of having to hit another key press to ok it.

AS for your middle suggestion, Tivo does have a Partially Watched filter so you can find shows you recently watched.

If you are talking about a Favorite shows list in general, I can see that being useful.

...unfortunately more and more i get the feeling Tivo considers the dvr to be legacy tech and they are putting their limited resources elsewhere.


----------



## NYHeel

samccfl99 said:


> Let us see. How about when you schedule a onepass recording. OK! Make a change to a scheduled recording. OK! Delete a recording. OK! Delete a To Do List Item. OK! and of course my favorite one about changing the tuner. Hello!!! Anyone who has less than 4 tuners (ok, in their bedrooms maybe), need to get the checkbook out and buy a new Tivo. Sorry.
> 
> As for My Shows and the entry positioning. THANK YOU, I so agree. STUPIDO, but how to fix it correctly?
> 
> Did you know that DISH used to have a 300X speed? Tivo speed 3 is slow as nails and ever since 20.4.6 they have destroyed how it does FF/REW in my opinion. Seems to go in spurts sometimes, of course which they will not admit.
> 
> Could not see progress bar with all those tics? What is there to see?
> 
> Have you never interrupted something you were watching and went to something else? Actually after 3 years I recently found out about using the back button. Of course if, as you pointed out before, change the entry position in My Shows while watching something and then you cannot just use the back button, can you?
> 
> How about when you are 5 minutes before the end of a recording and you want to look ahead in My Shows? Keep or Delete message. That is sometimes good and sometimes not.
> 
> I will end with this gem. A while ago I discovered that when you rebooted, within a Folder in My Shows, the current entry would be at the top and not where you left off. Anyone who has Netflix will understand this. Well I did complain to my contact in Executive Customer Support (and now she is Level 2 support and we cannot get to them anymore) and she actually got them to fix this on the very next update, I do believe. Well the problem was that they were obviously using a global pointer for all folders and THOSE PEOPLE (developers in CA) went to all the trouble to fix it and then THEY NEVER SAVED THE POINTERS so when you reboot, again ALL entries in all folders were pointing to the top position and they still have not fixed it in 3 updates. Great project managers, etc out there.
> 
> Oh, I am sorry to go on and on. But I do love my Roamio Pro with the 450 hours of HD storage and all six tuners buffering all the time (should be 60 min, not 30 saved) and the 2 sided guide, and yes, OnePass.
> 
> You sir, are intelligent and not snotty like many here. Thank you for the constructive criticism (ok, thats not spelled right I think AND how come this dumb editor does not capitalize the word "I"???) LOL


I make a lot of changes on the app so I don't see a lot of those ok messages. I thought if you use the clear button to delete from My Shows that it doesn't ask to confirm but I could be remembering wrong. Same goes for deleting from the To Do List with the Clear button.

I don't mind the changing channels confirmation. They only do that when you're full of tuners and you're going to cancel a recording if you change the channel. That's important and we need a heads up on that.

I like to know at what time in the recording I'm up to when watching a game so I can communicate with others about that specific moment. When there are loads of ticks on the screen it's harder to do that. But in general I'm ok with always having 15 minute ticks.

I really rarely use FF and rewind. I use skip to tick and 30 second skip. I usually find 30 second skip fast enough and 3 times FF is also fast enough for me. Perhaps a faster FF wouldn't hurt but not a very big deal either way.

The saved pause position seems to work reliably when you're watching a previously recorded show. I tend to have issues when I watching a show currently recording. That's when the Tivo loses the pause position. That's clearly a bug. It isn't intended to work that way. The last position (or what I call the pause position) is supposed to be saved whether it's a previously recorded show or one currently being recorded.

In general, there are some minor improvements that Tivo can make to their core UI. I certainly don't doubt that and I don't think others here doubt that as well. I think you've had the responses you've had because your tone is very harsh and you seem to be making a really big deal over what are very minor feature changes. That's not to say some of these shouldn't be tweaked but I just can't imagine that not having 4x FF (for example) is really altering how you enjoy using a Tivo.

As for the new software update, TiVo never announced anything. They simply let the priority page show up. I don't see where they need to announce anything about the next software update. Once they or a representative of the company mentions the new software update then I think we have right to demand it come reasonably soon. But they haven't said a thing about 20.4.8.


----------



## Dan203

samccfl99 said:


> Add a 4th FF + REV speed


I have no idea how hard/easy your other requests are, but I can assure you this one is harder then you think. It comes down to how MPEG-2 and H.264 are encoded. They are not just a stream of frames that you can display or skip at will. They're encoded using something called temporal encoding. Basically what that means is that segments are encoded as blocks. They start with an I frame, which is a complete frame. After that they have a sequence of P and B frames which can only be decoded if all frames that came before them, up to the I, are decoded first. What this means is that if the block is say 15 frames and you want to skip to the 15th frame you can only do so by first decoding the previous 14 frames first, which is slow. The current FF/RW speeds are basically tricks. The first one just displays the frames at a slightly faster speed. The decoder is fast enough to keep up with this but you'll notice it's a bit slower on 720p/59.94fps content, like ABC, because there are more frames to decode to display the same duration of content. The second speed is likely accomplished by skipping B frames. B frames are the slowest to decode because they require multiple frames to reassemble. The fastest speed is likely accomplished by only displaying I frames. I frames can be decoded with no other references so they are the fastest to display. However they can also be sporadic. In the old days there was a standard where there was an I frame ever 15 frames so it was smooth and predictable. But these days they are trying to compress the video more and more so the I frames are not always evenly spaced and can sometimes bee a full second, or more apart. This is especially true in H.264. MPEG-2 has a max of 32 frame GOPs, but H.264 does not. I've seen H.264 encodes with 10 seconds between I frames. That means at 3x FF you'd only see 3-4 frame before the commercial was over. It's disorienting to the user especially when the encoding changes from channel to channel. A faster speed would just make that worse. That's why they made the 30 second jump default. (they did it the way they did, rather then just skipping, to appease broadcasters)

This whole thing is going to get even worse with H.265 and 4K. The data rates are going to be insane and I have no doubt that they will increase the size of the GOPs to try and keep them down.


----------



## lpwcomp

NYHeel said:


> I make a lot of changes on the app so I don't see a lot of those ok messages. I thought if you use the clear button to delete from My Shows that it doesn't ask to confirm but I could be remembering wrong. Same goes for deleting from the To Do List with the Clear button.


True for removing from "My Shows". Not true for removing from To Do List. The latter still requires confirmation. There is logic behind this as removing it from My Shows merely moves it to Recently Deleted Recordings.



NYHeel said:


> I don't mind the changing channels confirmation. They only do that when you're full of tuners and you're going to cancel a recording if you change the channel. That's important and we need a heads up on that.


+1



NYHeel said:


> I like to know at what time in the recording I'm up to when watching a game so I can communicate with others about that specific moment. When there are loads of ticks on the screen it's harder to do that. But in general I'm ok with always having 15 minute ticks.
> 
> I really rarely use FF and rewind. I use skip to tick and 30 second skip. I usually find 30 second skip fast enough and 3 times FF is also fast enough for me. Perhaps a faster FF wouldn't hurt but not a very big deal either way.


+1



NYHeel said:


> The saved pause position seems to work reliably when you're watching a previously recorded show. I tend to have issues when I watching a show currently recording. That's when the Tivo loses the pause position. That's clearly a bug. It isn't intended to work that way. The last position (or what I call the pause position) is supposed to be saved whether it's a previously recorded show or one currently being recorded.


The saved pause position works for a recording in progress until the recording completes. That's when it gets lost. I agree that it is a bug.



NYHeel said:


> In general, there are some minor improvements that Tivo can make to their core UI. I certainly don't doubt that and I don't think others here doubt that as well. I think you've had the responses you've had because your tone is very harsh and you seem to be making a really big deal over what are very minor feature changes. That's not to say some of these shouldn't be tweaked but I just can't imagine that not having 4x FF (for example) is really altering how you enjoy using a Tivo.


+1. It's just another case of "The features that are important to _*ME*_ should be TiVos number one priority".



NYHeel said:


> As for the new software update, TiVo never announced anything. They simply let the priority page show up. I don't see where they need to announce anything about the next software update. Once they or a representative of the company mentions the new software update then I think we have right to demand it come reasonably soon. But they haven't said a thing about 20.4.8.


+1. AFAICT, the only thing TiVo has done is made the priority update page for 20.4.8 live. Did they even formally announce that?


----------



## samccfl99

Dan203 said:


> I have no idea how hard/easy your other requests are, but I can assure you this one is harder then you think. It comes down to how MPEG-2 and H.264 are encoded.


You lost me and probably many others after sentence two, but I respect your knowledge!


----------



## samccfl99

gamo62 said:


> Every time TiVo releases new hardware, the previous version gets somewhat neglected. Premiere owners, I feel your pain. Looks like that is what is going on now. Just saying. It was like that when the TiVoHD was released. Series 3 owners were put on the back burner.
> 
> Posted via Tapatalk


Personally I could not wait to get rid of my XL4, which I only had for about 18 months, since I got an offer from someone at Tivo to sell me a new Roamio Pro for a very big discount with a tradein. I had to run the XL4 in SD mode it was so slow.

But I do understand that it is expensive to replace a Tivo box, but one buys new cars periodically, correct? I spend much more time in front of my TV than in my car...LOL. Just sayin'.

Of course there is the lifetime service to think about, which I did not get (sorta sorry about that, who knew it would last this long?). Plus I found out that it was not transferable to a new box. Well that is kind of a ripoff. I also found out that they now (or have had for a couple of years) a yearly plan which saves about $2 a month or so. Who knew???


----------



## samccfl99

NYHeel said:


> I make a lot of changes on the app so I don't see a lot of those ok messages.


I do not understand the above sentence. What does it mean? OH, the APP! Yes I sometimes use that too, Ipad on the couch. Let's not even talk about those developers, but they have made vast improvements to it (finally) and they finally got the android app streaming and FINALLY took away the root block (amazing).

On the Change Tuners Dialog (which does go away if you do not answer it), I would not complain if 5 tuners were recording, but sometimes this message comes out when there are many tuners available. It just bugs me that there is no pattern to when this message comes up. I was just mentioning it, I did not mention it in my original post because it was no big deal, just a remnant of old programming.

The what I call the Resume Point bug, as you mentioned it, I have been fighting with them ever since I got my Roamio Pro and found it. For those of you who may not know, if you hit the Live button, it WILL keep the resume point on a currently recording recording, unless you are at the last 5 minutes or so. At least they have consistency! I am sure some people have encountered this problem on long recordings which you start and then 2 hours into it you get interrupted and then find out it is back to PLAY when you try to get back in...LOL.

I will just end with "I THINK THEIR TESTERS ARE BLIND, DEAF AND DUMB" ...sometimes, if they have any...LOL. I worked in banking IT for over 20 years and there can be NO programming mistakes made in that field, which is why I am so so so picky.

I was in a mood today (not unusual) and am now going to go back to my Roamio Pro. Thankfully this week starts all my summer shows (Last Ship, Dome, Falling Skies and other new ones). But for tonite, IT IS BACHLORETTE TIME and no, I do not watch the Bachelor!

*I WISH EVERYONE GREAT VIEWING PLEASURE ON WHATEVER TIVO DEVICE YOU MAY HAVE!!! *


----------



## Dan203

samccfl99 said:


> You lost me and probably many others after sentence two, but I respect your knowledge!


Sorry, it's kinda my area of expertise. I tried to make it more layman friendly, but it's a complex subject.


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## connie_w

I would have to agree with some of the complaints I saw from samccfl99. I keep hearing how much better Tivo DVR's are and truly, I do like my Tivo Roamio OTA because it is OTA and works fairly well. But, let me tell you, I do miss some of the things I had on my over 10 year old Cox leased Scientific Atlanta. Number one being that of the two tuners it did have, you could watch a recording while DVR'ing 2 other shows, or if you weren't DVR'ing it kept over 60 minutes in the buffer of each tuner, so you could at least decide to start recording when an hour show was over half way over and get the complete show or rewind to the beginning of the show. I only had to reboot that device 4 or 5 times over a decade of years. I could have upgraded the device with Cox, but I wanted to reduce my monthly costs which were getting huge with cable. So, for that I do love my Tivo Roamio OTA. Other than that, I don't see any features that are better than my old one, which Cox updated the software only 2 or 3 times I think over the years, unless they were such minor updates not to cause a reboot or any disturbance to my use.


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## CoxInPHX

connie_w said:


> Number one being that of the two tuners it did have, you could watch a recording while DVR'ing 2 other shows, or if you weren't DVR'ing it kept over 60 minutes in the buffer of each tuner,


What??? Your TiVo can also record 4 programs while you watch a 5th. How is that your #1 issue with TiVo?

The 60 min buffer, I do agree with.


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## pfiagra

connie_w said:


> you could watch a recording while DVR'ing 2 other shows


With your Roamio OTA can watch a recording while DVR'ing 4 other shows.



connie_w said:


> if you weren't DVR'ing it kept over 60 minutes in the buffer of each tuner, so you could at least decide to start recording when an hour show was over half way over and get the complete show or rewind to the beginning of the show


Hit record. TiVo usually keeps more than 30 minutes in its buffer, but it only shows you the last 30 minutes (or so I've heard).


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## lpwcomp

connie_w,

Two points:

1. You have to remember that the buffer size was set when A. Disk sizes were much smaller so space was at a premium and B. Recording was from an analog source, converted to digital and the quality/compression was controlled by the user except that the live buffer was always in best quality.

2. What was your point with the statement " Number one being that of the two tuners it did have, you could watch a recording while DVR'ing 2 other shows."? You've always been able to do that with a TiVo. Well, they didn't always have two tuners but you could always watch an existing recording with what ever tuners it did have recording other things.


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## slowbiscuit

lpwcomp said:


> You have to remember that the buffer size was set when A. Disk sizes were much smaller so space was at a premium and B. Recording was from an analog source, converted to digital and the quality/compression was controlled by the user except that the live buffer was always in best quality.


Tivo should've provided an option for live buffer size years ago when >1TB drives were common but has not. It's yet another 'not the Tivo Way (tm)' design choice made for us and a recurrent complaint on this forum. I personally don't care but can understand why folks want this.


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## tootal2

samccfl99 said:


> My point exactly. YOU SIR, are a new one of those that I have spoken of and I am sure THOSE other 3 will come out of the woodwork soon. I ramble? Whatever, I just speak the truth of someone who has had many DVR's since the late 1990's and has been in I.T. for over 25 years and have been online since BBS's were around using 2400 Baud modems. But what do I know? Please, no answer required, but I doubt that will be possible for you as it is for me!


I only had 300 Baud. And I thought it was amazing.


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## aristoBrat

tootal2 said:


> I only had 300 Baud. And I thought it was amazing.


Remember when you could stretch it up to 450 sometimes?

And the fun Hayes commands... ATH0


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## JoeKustra

aristoBrat said:


> Remember when you could stretch it up to 450 sometimes?
> 
> And the fun Hayes commands... ATH0


But did you build your modem like I did?


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## lpwcomp

slowbiscuit said:


> Tivo should've provided an option for live buffer size years ago when >1TB drives were common but has not. It's yet another 'not the Tivo Way (tm)' design choice made for us and a recurrent complaint on this forum. I personally don't care but can understand why folks want this.


I somewhat agree but neither one of us knows how embedded in the code the 30-min buffer size is. Also, the buffers have to be allocated for worst case scenario, so @10GB/hour for each one, which is why there is usually actually more than 30 minutes available if you decide to start a permanent recording. And when that show finishes, another 10GB has to be allocated for the live buffer.

There are lot of things TiVo should be doing to improve things and having a tailorable live buffer is, IMHO, a low priority (although higher than making the UI less "creaky" _*looking*_). Proper implementation of single tuner use for overlapping recordings on the same channel comes to mind.


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## lpwcomp

tootal2 said:


> I only had 300 Baud. And I thought it was amazing.


The first terminals I used were T33s connected to a CDC 6400 @110 baud.


----------



## L David Matheny

lpwcomp said:


> I somewhat agree but neither one of us knows how embedded in the code the 30-min buffer size is. Also, the buffers have to be allocated for worst case scenario, so @10GB/hour for each one, which is why there is usually actually more than 30 minutes available if you decide to start a permanent recording. And when that show finishes, another 10GB has to be allocated for the live buffer.


A good programmer would have tried to avoid hard-coding the buffer size, and I doubt that separate space is allocated for buffers anyway. Live TV is probably recorded just like a scheduled recording, but some housekeeping routine periodically chases each live buffer and trims it to a certain length, which might be estimated for worst-case compression based on block counts.



lpwcomp said:


> There are lot of things TiVo should be doing to improve things and having a tailorable live buffer is, IMHO, a low priority (although higher than making the UI less "creaky" _*looking*_). Proper implementation of single tuner use for overlapping recordings on the same channel comes to mind.


If the code was well written, it should be easy enough to at least give us one-hour buffers, but I agree they have more important problems to fix, like the single-tuner overlap feature and some flat-out bugs.


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## lpwcomp

L David Matheny said:


> A good programmer would have tried to avoid hard-coding the buffer size, and I doubt that separate space is allocated for buffers anyway. Live TV is probably recorded just like a scheduled recording, but some housekeeping routine periodically chases each live buffer and trims it to a certain length, which might be estimated for worst-case compression based on block counts.


The live buffers can't really be treated like regular recordings. If there is not enough space available for a recording, it simply won't be made. Not an option with the live buffers. I don't believe that the live buffers are ever trimmed. The pointer to the beginning of the most recent 30 minutes is moved but the space remains allocated. That's why there is usually more than 30 minutes available if you decide to start a permanent recording, especially if it is an SD channel.



L David Matheny said:


> If the code was well written, it should be easy enough to at least give us one-hour buffers, but I agree they have more important problems to fix, like the single-tuner overlap feature and some flat-out bugs.


Changing the length of the buffers might be as simple as changing the value of a symbolic. Making it user tailorable is more complex. Testing that change to make sure that it doesn't have any disastrous consequences is something else entirely. Remember when they implemented ( via what I that think was probably a "quick and dirty" solution) single tuner use?


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## PSU_Sudzi

I was watching a show the other day and the buffer started at the 7 minutes mark of the show. I hit record and went back that night to watch and it captured the whole show, so the buffer in that case was at least 37 minutes long. Might be worth experimenting more to see how big it is.



pfiagra said:


> With your Roamio OTA can watch a recording while DVR'ing 4 other shows.
> 
> Hit record. TiVo usually keeps more than 30 minutes in its buffer, but it only shows you the last 30 minutes (or so I've heard).


----------



## lpwcomp

PSU_Sudzi said:


> I was watching a show the other day and the buffer started at the 7 minutes mark of the show. I hit record and went back that night to watch and it captured the whole show, so the buffer in that case was at least 37 minutes long. Might be worth experimenting more to see how big it is.


The length in time is going to vary based on quality/compression.


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## astrohip

astrohip said:


> I think it is. I'm sure they're busy with whatever it is they do. Just because WE want updates doesn't mean we should get them. And what's she going to say, "coming soon". No matter what she says, she gets pilloried for an answer someone doesn't like. And how many tech companies have a VP level person give out "updates".
> 
> We'll get it when we get it. She'll surface then, as she always does. Many of you seem to think she's avoiding us, but if you think about her history here, she tends to surface when a new release comes out, or when there is a significant one-off problem she wants to nail down. The rest of the time, she works.
> 
> Let it go people...
> 
> 
> 
> MichaelAinNB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I'm sure Margaret is sooooooooo busy at work five days a week, that she can't take 30 seconds to write an update on this board. And yes, I would be OK with a "coming soon." That's more than we've gotten. Even something simple like, "Hey guys...I'm sorry but I can't provide a timeline for the next update. All I can suggest is that you stay tuned. And, as always, thank you for being devoted TiVo customers!" That took about 12 seconds to write. Are you really telling me Margaret doesn't have a free 12 seconds in her day?
> And, just to remind you, the "WE" you're referring to are TiVo's customers. We're the people responsible for TiVo being in business and Margaret having a job. * I'm guessing you're not a business owner - or not a successful business owner.*
Click to expand...

You wrote this reply to one of my posts, and quoted me, so I assume this final sentence is about me. So I'll call your bluff. Will you call mine?

We each write a $100 check to the charity of the other's choice. Send it to a neutral third party on this forum. Then we'll see if your claim against me is correct or not. Again, judged by neutral parties. You can hold me to the toughest standards. If you're wrong, your check goes to my charity. If I'm bluffing, my check goes to yours.

Make my day...


----------



## lessd

Outside of people on this TCF would TiVo sell more units whatever updates they may make, I have about 10 friends/family with households that use TiVo and use me if something does not work, until the one-pass update they never asked me about any new apps, explaining One Pass to all has been a pain to me, the One Pass stuff should have been part of the Wish List that nobody I know uses much (except people on this TCF). Many did not even know about Netflix or OD until I told them. Because the cable co DVR is so simple to own, on sight installation, on sight repair, makes it hard for TiVo to compete. 
If I had to do things over again only my kids would have TiVos recommended by me. I will not try to sell TiVos anymore to people that want to use me as their repair/how to operate/how to set up person.


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## Joe01880

lessd said:


> Outside of people on this TCF would TiVo sell more units whatever updates they may make, I have about 10 friends/family with households that use TiVo and use me if something does not work, until the one-pass update they never asked me about any new apps, explaining One Pass to all has been a pain to me, the One Pass stuff should have been part of the Wish List that nobody I know uses much (except people on this TCF). Many did not even know about Netflix or OD until I told them. Because the cable co DVR is so simple to own, on sight installation, on sight repair, makes it hard for TiVo to compete.
> If I had to do things over again only my kids would have TiVos recommended by me. I will not try to sell TiVos anymore to people that want to use me as their repair/how to operate/how to set up person.


Just curious, are you your friends and families goto guy for other tech related things like smart phone's or computers and tablets DVD players etc.. Or just TiVo
In my little corner of the universe my family and friends have used me for their tech issues all of my adult life, I'm 54. I get questions for products I don't even own. I don't mind and in many if not all matters I freely admit I'm probably not the best guy to ask but ask they do anyway. Sometimes I help, sometimes I don't, i just try not to screw anything up worse than it was.

Sent from my LG G4 using Tapatalk


----------



## JoeKustra

I know what you're saying. The worst day of my life was when my sister bought a laptop. But I have learned to use some of this advice/training to help me too. Now when I buy a new modem, router or TV, I convince someone my old one is better than the one they use. That makes them get rid of their old device and I know their new one. That DVR reference is so true. My sister got Dish for those reasons. I told her I knew nothing about satellite systems.  Just last weekend I gave an old friend my first DOCSIS 3.0 modem, an older router and small TV. I even showed her how to make her smart phone use the wireless even though I don't have a smart phone.


----------



## MichaelAinNB

astrohip said:


> You wrote this reply to one of my posts, and quoted me, so I assume this final sentence is about me. So I'll call your bluff. Will you call mine?
> 
> We each write a $100 check to the charity of the other's choice. Send it to a neutral third party on this forum. Then we'll see if your claim against me is correct or not. Again, judged by neutral parties. You can hold me to the toughest standards. If you're wrong, your check goes to my charity. If I'm bluffing, my check goes to yours.
> 
> Make my day...


At the risk of not making your day, I am declining your challenge. I can't help but continue to find it ironic that you and others here, by chastising me for having the audacity to ask for an update from a TiVo Rep that would take 12 seconds to write, are doing nothing but reinforcing my point. Let's assume my guess (it was a guess and not an accusation as you appear to infer) that you're not a successful business owner was incorrect. Yet, as a successful business owner, you managed to allot enough time during what I am sure is an extremely busy day, to write a response to my post. A response that I am sure took several minutes to not only write but then proof read to ensure there were no spelling or grammatical errors, lest a member of the self-appointed Grammar Police would be all over you. I am going to assume that, even though you ventured from your very busy day to write your post, that your business didn't fold and is just as successful now as it was prior to writing your post. So, Mr. Successful Business Owner, why is it you can take several minutes out of your busy day to post on this board, yet Margaret or a designee can't find 12 seconds in their busy day to do the same?


----------



## lessd

Joe01880 said:


> Just curious, are you your friends and families goto guy for other tech related things like smart phone's or computers and tablets DVD players etc.. Or just TiVo
> In my little corner of the universe my family and friends have used me for their tech issues all of my adult life, I'm 54. I get questions for products I don't even own. I don't mind and in many if not all matters I freely admit I'm probably not the best guy to ask but ask they do anyway. Sometimes I help, sometimes I don't, i just try not to screw anything up worse than it was.
> 
> Sent from my LG G4 using Tapatalk


Ah *yes*, but I should not try to make things harder for myself as I now 20 years older than you, I don't mind my kids, but its TiVo friends that getting harder to handle. I do fix computers bugs and all that stuff, but at least I don't own or want a smart phone, so I not asked about that item, a flip phone with Page Plus does just what I need at $13.77/month, my wife's flip phone is $11 every 4 months (yes she does not use it much).


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## astrohip

MichaelAinNB said:


> So, Mr. Successful Business Owner, why is it you can take several minutes out of your busy day to post on this board, yet Margaret or a designee can't find 12 seconds in their busy day to do the same?


I retired a year ago.

But to get back on point, it's not that Margret *can't* find the time, it's that she doesn't *need *to find the time. As I have stated many times in this thread, she typically does not comment in this forum except (1) at the time of a new release, or (2) to address a very specific one-off issue.

So the debate isn't does she have the time. It's why should she find the time? She has no need to comment on future events or speculation. She comes in when she needs to. And right now, she doesn't need to.

You WANT her to, but that has nothing to do with her needs or wants.

So... we can debate this all we want. But we'll end up at the same point--you want something that just ain't happening.


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## ej42137

Most large companies have policies to control the release of information about upcoming products. There are lots of reasons for this; you don't want to be embarrassed if your plans go awry, you don't want your rivals to be able to undermine your business plans, and you want to maximize customer interest at the time the product actually becomes available.

Thinking that TiVo Margret might violate those policies as a result of posts in this thread is remarkable.


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## Diana Collins

lpwcomp said:


> The live buffers can't really be treated like regular recordings. If there is not enough space available for a recording, it simply won't be made. Not an option with the live buffers. I don't believe that the live buffers are ever trimmed. The pointer to the beginning of the most recent 30 minutes is moved but the space remains allocated. That's why there is usually more than 30 minutes available if you decide to start a permanent recording, especially if it is an SD channel.
> 
> Changing the length of the buffers might be as simple as changing the value of a symbolic. Making it user tailorable is more complex. Testing that change to make sure that it doesn't have any disastrous consequences is something else entirely. Remember when they implemented ( via what I that think was probably a "quick and dirty" solution) single tuner use?


Well, it used to be hackable back in the old days...I had 4 Series 2 boxes that all had 90 minute buffers. The on-screen timeline, for the most part, worked fine. The only real issue I recall was that partially filled buffers would sometimes show your current viewing point in the middle of the buffer when you were actually at the end.

Obviously, the code has evolved a lot since then, but if they changed this area then they consciously decided to keep the buffer to 30 minutes.


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## astrohip

astrohip said:


> But to get back on point, it's not that Margret *can't* find the time, it's that she doesn't *need *to find the time. As I have stated many times in this thread, she typically does not comment in this forum except (1) at the time of a new release, or (2) to address a very specific one-off issue.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=530236

20.5.2 has been released. With a post by Margret of the release notes.

So for all of you who have been bad-mouthing her, apologies are due (to her, not me). She did exactly what she's done for a while now on this forum, which is let us know about a new release. And typically she will respond to her own release notes should the occasion warrant.

Other than that, she's back at work. Not responding to all you whiners, merely for the sake of responding.

I'm trying not to be snarky, but y'all have been rude to a person who is very helpful to our community. I have no idea if she even sees any of the BS that gets posted, but if it was me, I'd be pissed that with all I do, this is what I get back. Clearly she is a bigger person than me. 

Try tackling problems with a positive attitude, and not a sense of entitlement, and perhaps you would not only feel better about it, but actually get some feedback.

Case in point: Captions had a bug appear in the previous update. I noticed it, and started a thread. Margret replied with a temporary solution. And now in 20.5.2, there is a fix.


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## slowbiscuit

Criticism of Tivo's decisions made for us is NOT rudeness to the person, no matter how you may think it to be so. I never saw anyone personally attack her for the 1P change, frex.


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## morac

slowbiscuit said:


> Criticism of Tivo's decisions made for us is NOT rudeness to the person, no matter how you may think it to be so. I never saw anyone personally attack her for the 1P change, frex.


There were people claiming that they were *owed* a response by Margret to their posts here and became belligerent when one never came. That may not technically be a personal attack, but it's pretty close. It was criticizing Margret, not TiVo the company.


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## astrohip

slowbiscuit said:


> Criticism of Tivo's decisions made for us is NOT rudeness to the person, no matter how you may think it to be so. <snip>


Absolutely agree. I'm sure the feedback from these forum is part of why some changes were made. "Record Everything" and "Display Everything" come to mind.

But...


morac said:


> There were people claiming that they were *owed* a response by Margret to their posts here and became belligerent when one never came. That may not technically be a personal attack, but it's pretty close. It was criticizing Margret, not TiVo the company.


This. There were people who became irate when Margret didn't reply every time they posted a complaint. They felt they deserved a reply, and when she didn't personally respond, they became overtly rude. It devolved into discussions of how busy execs get, and how they should spend their time.

While it's not unusual for Internet boards to become like this, I had hoped TCF was above it. While most of us are, sadly not all.


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## slowbiscuit

And on the flip side, there are plenty of folks here for whom Tivo can do no wrong, and any criticism is 'rude'.

And so it goes...


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## ajwees41

has anyone from this post received the update yet?


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## RoyK

ajwees41 said:


> has anyone from this post received the update yet?


Yes. And I never signed up for priority update.


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## MVPinFLA

ajwees41 said:


> has anyone from this post received the update yet?


I got mine and I signed up.


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## JolDC

ajwees41 said:


> has anyone from this post received the update yet?


Yes, got this week's update based upon adding my TSN for this one.


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## regor101

I received 20.5.2 on my Premiere yesterday (I was signed up)


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