# Help upgrading Dual-tuner to Seagate 500GB



## killme (May 9, 2004)

After several failed attempts to get a working upgrade using either of my 500GB drives (I have two, but I am only using one for the TiVo), I used a working 250GB drive with a single tuner image already on it. I ran the following command:

mfsbackup -Tao - /dev/hdd | mfsrestore -s 127 -xzpi - /dev/hdc

The upgrade worked perfectly on my DT (Dual Tuner). So I plugged in the 500GB and did these commands:

mfsbackup -Tao - /dev/hdd | mfsrestore -s 500 -xzpi - /dev/hdc
tpip --swapped -s /dev/hdc

mfsinfo report looked ok so I pulled the drive and stuck it in my TiVo DT. It gets to the "Almost There..." screen then reboots. The second time around it gets to the GSOD for a few seconds and then reboots.

I'm pretty sure everything else is fine since the 250GB upgrade worked just fine. What else can I do?


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Wouldn't your DT need the 7.2.5 software on it to function? 

Doesn't this screw things up on Tivo's end when you put the wrong software on the wrong hardware?

(remove +'s from forbidden link)
http://www.dvr+play+ground.com/forum/thread/12109/?page=1



> Do not do this. It is well known that many models of TiVo systems appear to be interchangable because the software for one box will run on another.
> 
> FACT: DOING SO REALLY BOTHERS TIVO AND DIRECTV.
> 
> ...


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## mick66 (Oct 15, 2004)

greg_burns said:


> Wouldn't your DT need the 7.2.5 software on it to function?


Uhm, it looks like that's what he's trying to do - copy his existing DT image to a 500GB drive.


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## funtoupgrade (Mar 15, 2005)

Why not just use the drive that came in the DT for the backup and restore to new 500GB? Also your swap file need not be so big. 250 would be the recommended size for a 500GB drive (rule is half the drive capacity). I am very surprised that the 250 worked normally. You really could view previously recorded programs? This is a first! Usually they are just listed in the Now Playing List but will not play since they are supposedly tied to the motherboard serial number when recorded. I hope you did not assume it worked normally just because of no error messages. It would take quite a long time to test out all the functions of the DT.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

You need to specify -r4 for any drive > 320gb as the largest MFS partition will exceed the 274gb limit.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

mick66 said:


> Uhm, it looks like that's what he's trying to do - copy his existing DT image to a 500GB drive.


I guess it depends on how you interpret this statement:



killme said:


> I used a working 250GB drive with a single tuner image already on it.


If he overwrote the drive, knowing what image was previously on it seems a little superfluous (and confusing! )


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## Dkerr24 (Oct 29, 2004)

Another error is the fact that mfstools doesn't recognize larger swap files than 127mb.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Dkerr24 said:


> Another error is the fact that mfstools doesn't recognize larger swap files than 127mb.


I thought that was OK if you then did TPIP?

tpip -s -1 /dev/hdc <= If you have TPIP V1.2, latest from the web site.

or

tpip --swapped -s /dev/hdc <== If you have TPIP V1.1 included on the PVT ISO image.

careful the drive letter (I am just cutting and pasting)


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## Dkerr24 (Oct 29, 2004)

Greg I tried tpip on my new 300gb drive, but it locked up every few days after the upgrade. I redid my image using the standard 127mb swap file and it hasn't locked up in over a week now.

I had tried using mfsrestore with a 128mb swap file size, then tpip.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Dkerr24 said:


> Greg I tried tpip on my new 300gb drive, but it locked up every few days after the upgrade. I redid my image using the standard 127mb swap file and it hasn't locked up in over a week now.
> 
> I had tried using mfsrestore with a 128mb swap file size, then tpip.


I have two drives in my tivo (320GB + 160GB) and haven't had any problems in over 2 months.

IIRC:

I did mfsrestore with -s 240 
then TPIP on it

There are two version of TPIP, each with their own switches...
http://archive2.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3121709&&#post3121709

"Two schools of thought" link
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3825639#post3825639


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## killme (May 9, 2004)

blindlemon, I will try that. Thank you. I saw where people were using the r4 switch, but I couldn't figure out what it did and what it was used for. Are any of the other numbers for the "r" switch useful or just "4"?

The first couple of times I did the upgrade I did *tpip -s --swapped /dev/hdc* and it seemed to initialize it also. At first I thought that was what caused problems.

I'm sorry for the confusion. I stated that the 250GB had a working image on it so it can be known that the drive is known to work correctly and the fault lies with upgrading to the 500GB drive and not just ANY drive.

For kicks I did connect the 250GB with a single-tuner image on it to the dual-tuner. It would not get past the "Powering up" screen and just kept rebooting. In case there are future morons who want to know what happens, that's it.


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## JamieP (Aug 3, 2004)

killme said:


> blindlemon, I will try that. Thank you. I saw where people were using the r4 switch, but I couldn't figure out what it did and what it was used for. Are any of the other numbers for the "r" switch useful or just "4"?


As long as we are posting reference links:
Summary of mfstools options
Explanation of why -r3 or -r4 works around the 274GB partition problem


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## killme (May 9, 2004)

Now that I think back, I remember having problems upgrading my single-tuner to a 300GB and a 250GB. I guess it was that r4 switch that I didn't use. Wish the Hinsdale guide was updated with the new information.


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## killme (May 9, 2004)

Is there a downside to using -r4 over -r3? Reading the thread it looks like the lower the number the less swap space you need, the faster the menus, etc. Is this true?


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

killme said:


> Now that I think back, I remember having problems upgrading my single-tuner to a 300GB and a 250GB. I guess it was that r4 switch that I didn't use. Wish the Hinsdale guide was updated with the new information.


I used the weakness instructions which included an "-r 4" switch. Shouldn't there be space between -r and 4? Does it matter?


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## mick66 (Oct 15, 2004)

greg_burns said:


> I guess it depends on how you interpret this statement:





> I used a working 250GB drive with a single tuner image already on it. I ran the following command:
> 
> mfsbackup -Tao - /dev/hdd | mfsrestore -s 127 -xzpi - /dev/hdc
> 
> The upgrade worked perfectly on my DT (Dual Tuner).


?


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

mick66 said:


> ?


I assumeed (wrongly) that he the attempted to make a backup of the single tuner image, and restored it to the 500GB drive. Why would you do that? You wouldn't. And it didn't make sense to me then either.

It was late, I was cleary wrong. Stop rubbing it in already. 

Note to self: stop replying to threads late a night.


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## killme (May 9, 2004)

greg_burns said:


> I used the weakness instructions which included an "-r 4" switch. Shouldn't there be space between -r and 4? Does it matter?


Yes, I think it matters and yes there should be a space between them.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

killme said:


> Yes, I think it matters and yes there should be a space between them.


I have upgraded 20 or so TiVo with -s 127 for many people most have been running over a 1.5 years with no problems, I did use -r4 on all. I have tried -s127 and -s 127 looked at the drive (pdisk -l /dev/hdx) and saw no difference as both had a swap file of 127m (if I leave out the -s command the swap go to 64m) so I don't think the space makes any difference.


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## killme (May 9, 2004)

I thought I remember trying to do -f9999 and it not working for me. I guess I was mistaken. But it's good to know.


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## killme (May 9, 2004)

It works now that I included the r4 switch.

I was trying to get transparent menus by leaving off the -f9999 command, but that does not work. When I make a backup without the -f9999 the size is around 1050MB. When I include the -f9999 command the size is a little over 2000MB. Any idea why there is a difference?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

killme said:


> It works now that I included the r4 switch.
> 
> I was trying to get transparent menus by leaving off the -f9999 command, but that does not work. When I make a backup without the -f9999 the size is around 1050MB. When I include the -f9999 command the size is a little over 2000MB. Any idea why there is a difference?


I have to use -f7000 or all the files in the software do not xfer, with f9999 I get an error in the backup, don't know why. New 250G drives working great using an image from the DT and -f7000 in making the image.


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## killme (May 9, 2004)

When I backed up my second dual-tuner I noticed that without the f-switch the uncompressed file was around 1050 MB. When I used the f-switch it was only around 1250MB. Only the first one had recorded video on it (including the TiVo Tutorial videos). They both had Wishlists and Season Passes set up.

The second dual-tuner never had any Tutorial videos on it. I tried to do an upgrade before I ran Guided Setup for the first time so maybe that's why. That upgrade failed since I didn't use the r4 switch so I stuck the original back in. Not sure what happened to the videos.

Just to be safe I made two backups with and without the f-switch. Once compressed it's only a matter of a few hundred megabytes.


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## killme (May 9, 2004)

Both dual-tuner units are experiencing a quick stutter or stopple. The one in my room does not seem to happen as often, but the one in the living room happens about every 10 minutes, sometimes longer. It is pretty distracting and I'd like to get rid of it. Would using the r3 switch help or is it something else?


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## killme (May 9, 2004)

The stutter is happening on mine just as frequently as the one in my living room. I wasn't using my dual-tuner unit much, which is why I thought it happened less. Anyway, the one in the living room experienced pauses and pixelation at least once a few days ago. Could have been a bad sector maybe.

I'm going to put my original drive back in on my unit for awhile to see if the stutter will go away. Anyone else had problems with the dual-tuner stuttering?


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## yukit (Jul 23, 2005)

I just got my DT unit yesterday, upgraded the drive immediately.

I was not able to mfsbackup the original disk with -f 9999 -6so flags to a backup file.
Sorry I did not copy the errors on the console.
Anyone got this to work?

I did manage to make the new disk work by mfsbackup ... | mfsrestore ... method.
I figure I will try to make a backup of the original disk later.

I am still in a process of transferring recordings from an old S2 SA unit.
Too bad there seems to be no easy way to bulk copy the recordings.


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## killme (May 9, 2004)

One of my TiVo DT's started restarting at random. Very weird behavior. Called TiVo about the problem and they want to replace it. Guess I'll try that once I get my recordings off.

yukit, I was able to backup using those switches. You could try leaving off the -f switch and see if that helps.


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## yukit (Jul 23, 2005)

killme said:


> One of my TiVo DT's started restarting at random. Very weird behavior. Called TiVo about the problem and they want to replace it. Guess I'll try that once I get my recordings off.


Does it just reboot itself while sitting idle?
I used to have a problem with the power brown-outing occasionally (I live in CA)
I have put all my PC & electronics on UPS units so they can survive a short power out.

I have pretty much finished copying all old programs from a S2 SA unit.
I have not actually recorded any new programs with the tuners yet.

I need to reprogram the Season Passes soon in the new unit.



killme said:


> yukit, I was able to backup using those switches. You could try leaving off the -f switch and see if that helps.


I think I have tried a few variations with the options, but I could not get it to work.
Something about header info it did not like.
I intend to try again, maybe as early as this weekend.


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## yukit (Jul 23, 2005)

I figured out why I was not able to backup my original DT drive.
I turned out to be a bad cable. It must have gotten damaged from numerous plugging & unplugging.
Replaced it with a new cable, everything is working now.

BTW, I noticed that the new 80GB drive that came with the DT unit is a WD800BB, not the Maxtor QuickView I had in my older S2 SA units.


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## bob61 (Apr 23, 2002)

yukit said:


> BTW, I noticed that the new 80GB drive that came with the DT unit is a WD800BB, not the Maxtor QuickView I had in my older S2 SA units.


Might be due to Maxtor being swallowed up by Seagate. However, the whole QuickView line is just a bunch of marketing hype. The QuickView has no special features or specs compared to the "standard" Maxtor drives. Maxtor sold PC drives through the Desktop Storage under the DiamonxMax label. The same drives sold by the Comsumer Electronics division of Maxtor under the QuickView line. Hogwash you say???

Check out these two drive specs for 160GB drive. Here's the data sheet on drive sold through Desktop Storage division data sheet, look for model #6L160P0: DiamondMax 160GB - 6L160P0

Now look at what is sold under the Consumer Electronics division, same 6L160P0 model but now under the QuickView brand:QuickView 160GB - 6L160P0.

Check further and you'll find the specs on these two are the same - they are the same drive with a different label.

Interestingly they also have a serial version available, same model number too between the two divisions! QuickView is just marketing hype, plain and simple.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

I have no evidence of this, but is it possible that the QuickView drives simply have the acoustic management stuff turned on by default? (You can do that with any Maxtor drive with AMSET or the Hitachi Feature Tool.)

My 140HR Tivo S2 240 from a few years ago came with a WD drive in it as well.


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## bob61 (Apr 23, 2002)

greg_burns said:


> I have no evidence of this, but is it possible that the QuickView drives simply have the acoustic management stuff turned on by default?


Dunno - but the acoustic specs for both the DiamondMax and QuickView drives are the same per the Maxtor data sheets.


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## yukit (Jul 23, 2005)

greg_burns said:


> I have no evidence of this, but is it possible that the QuickView drives simply have the acoustic management stuff turned on by default? (You can do that with any Maxtor drive with AMSET or the Hitachi Feature Tool.)


This maybe true. When I replaced the WD drive in the DT unit with a Maxtor 500GB drive, the acoustic management was set to performance by default.

I have never tried to run amset on the QuickView drives. I should try that next time.

I guess a new question is: how do we check/change the acoustic management on WD & Seagate drives?


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

yukit said:


> I guess a new question is: how do we check/change the acoustic management on WD & Seagate drives?


Hitcachi Feature Tool will work with WD. Not sure about Seagate.

http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm


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