# I would, would you..?



## Muttley1900 (Dec 23, 2008)

As some of us S1 owners are not in a vm cabled area and therefore the current offering from VM is not available to us, would you, if TiVo/VM were to launch a freeview TiVo (that say offered some of VM's on demand stuff via broadband and maybe links into iplayer etc etc) sign up for it? And if yes, what would you be willing to pay for it.

I think I'd go as high as £400 for the unit (if it was mine to keep) and prob circa £10 a month subscription (or in other words, turn the clock back 10 years, but with today's technology  ). 

J.


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## DB70+ (Jan 31, 2011)

Possibly

But as the VM Tivo is lease only, I would not want pay too much for it.

As I am with a lifetime licence S1, I am not sure of the £10 p m either

Yes, up-to-date technology but still needs to be the right price.

D


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## BrianHughes (Jan 21, 2001)

I'd grab it with both hands. No question.


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## Mark Bennett (Sep 17, 2001)

Problem is, some of us won't get Freeview for another year or so. (And even then I have reservations as to the quality some will receive - for instance the analogue signal where I live is not usable).
So I'd want one that can control the Sky box - just as my S1 does....


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

I'd be surprised if there's any market for a freeview PVR over £200 
- the market is saturated with freeview PVRs for as little as £60

Then good luck trying to sell a subscription on top of that !

The only way to get people to pay a sub is for extra channels (i.e. sky/virgin) or extra content ( BT Vision).

So while VM/TiVo could develop a BT Vision clone (Freeview PVR with some downloadable content over ADSL), nationwide broadband isn't ready for a full IPTV implementation.

How well is BT Vision doing ?



Mark Bennett said:


> So I'd want one that can control the Sky box - just as my S1 does....


I think the days of recompressing an input like the S1 does are long over.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Mark Bennett said:


> Problem is, some of us won't get Freeview for another year or so. (And even then I have reservations as to the quality some will receive - for instance the analogue signal where I live is not usable).
> So I'd want one that can control the Sky box - just as my S1 does....


Likewise and I think when we do get Freeview our local transmitter, Newhaven will not get the full line-up.

Automan.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

What is actually needed is a software only version of Tivo that can run on a PC like Windows MCE with any required mixed combination of tuner hardware like one DTT (Freeview) and two satellite tuners and/or a mix of both SD and HD channel compatible tuners..

That overcomes the need to redigitise the signal etc involved with a standalone Tivo.

I believe that Tivo already has such a product but that sadly they will not be distributing it in the UK to work with a UK based EPG due to their exclusive deal with Virgin Media.:down::down::down:


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

It didn't sell well in the US (and was not very good by all accounts)
- that's why there was no UK version - nothing to do with the Virgin deal.

"Sales of Nero Liquid TV™ | Tivo PC® were discontinued on December 30th, 2009"
http://www.nero.com/enu/support-liquidtv.html


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## ramtops (Sep 26, 2005)

Muttley1900 said:


> As some of us S1 owners are not in a vm cabled area and therefore the current offering from VM is not available to us, would you, if TiVo/VM were to launch a freeview TiVo (that say offered some of VM's on demand stuff via broadband and maybe links into iplayer etc etc) sign up for it? And if yes, what would you be willing to pay for it.
> 
> I think I'd go as high as £400 for the unit (if it was mine to keep) and prob circa £10 a month subscription (or in other words, turn the clock back 10 years, but with today's technology  ).
> 
> J.


Potential problem with that for me is my download limit with the vileness that is Karoo Broadband here in Hull


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## ramtops (Sep 26, 2005)

Pete77 said:


> What is actually needed is a software only version of Tivo that can run on a PC like Windows MCE


Nooo - no Windows machines in this house, thankyouverymuch!


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## velocitysurfer1 (Sep 6, 2006)

... But I want a modern TiVo that uses Sky or freesat as its source. 

Not everyone will have access to free view post DSO. I need a new aerial and see no need to replace it as I have a dish on the side of my house


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> "Sales of Nero Liquid TV | Tivo PC® were discontinued on December 30th, 2009"
> http://www.nero.com/enu/support-liquidtv.html


I suppose the fact that Windows MCE is bundled with the operating system and does not charge for the EPG data was a rather terminal issue in terms of successful marketing.

A shame though given that MCE does not have Suggestions and one or two other deficiencies compared to the features of an S4 generation Tivo.


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## VirginMediaPhil (Nov 27, 2009)

A Freeview TiVo is slightly plausible, as Virgin used to give out a Freeview box to their 'National' customers as they call them (customers without access to fibre optic line, instead use ADSL for broadband, a legacy of the old Virgin.Net ISP). Who's to say they'll make another "National" TV box, with TiVo included?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

velocitysurfer1 said:


> Not everyone will have access to free view post DSO. I need a new aerial and see no need to replace it as I have a dish on the side of my house


It looks as though a Freesat box or Windows MCE or some other non Tivo computer based PC PVR will be your main options then for the time being.

We can only hope for a Freeview Virgin Tivo with Video On Demand stuff as well eventually if Tivo takes off in a big way as a draw for new Virgin customers. That has to be at least another two years away. They have to upgrade all the Virgin Cable customer boxes to Tivo first before Tivo becomes well known enough for a Freeview box spinoff.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> What is actually needed is a software only version of Tivo that can run on a PC like Windows MCE with any required mixed combination of tuner hardware like one DTT (Freeview) and two satellite tuners and/or a mix of both SD and HD channel compatible tuners..
> 
> That overcomes the need to redigitise the signal etc involved with a standalone Tivo.


You could bundle it free with every PC and provide a free EPG. Instead of "TiVo", which is now exclusively licensed to Virgin, you could call it... how about "Media Center"?

The only advantages TiVo has over MC7 are that it's a packaged CE product in a box, not a scary PC you have to configure. You put it on a PC and it has no advantages over the built in Windows software.


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## velocitysurfer1 (Sep 6, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> It looks as though a Freesat box or Windows MCE or some other non Tivo computer based PC PVR will be your main options then for the time being.


The assumption being that TiVo stop supplying guide data for S1 boxes. Note that they could stop support but carry on with the guide data.

As i have sky hd, this would become my default option, unless I cancel the contract! But it has poor Video on demand, and the need to take their broadband option for VOD to be anywhere near useful.

Another assumption is that the average man in the street wants VOD.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Automan said:


> Likewise and I think when we do get Freeview our local transmitter, Newhaven will not get the full line-up.
> 
> Automan.


No, but the PSB mixes have almost all the good stuff on them, inc. HD.


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## velocitysurfer1 (Sep 6, 2006)

For a standalone VOD box has anyone tried boxee


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## djqster (Oct 22, 2010)

velocitysurfer1 said:


> For a standalone VOD box has anyone tried boxee


Yes I have.
It's expensive and the iPlayer app is clunky in the way it completely fails to switch to fullscreen automatically.

But there's enough online content to amuse me and the Lovefilm app should be along sometime for some premium content.

For playing back your own media from a NAS box or external HDD it's peerless.

As for whether I'd pay for a Freeview TiVo, yes I would. I'd pay for all the guff from Virgin just to get a new TiVo but there's no cable here.
To get cable I'd have to move to Swindon and that's where I draw the line.


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## davisa (Feb 19, 2002)

mikerr said:


> I'd be surprised if there's any market for a freeview PVR over £200 over.


I wouldn't be. The decent ones seem to be around £300 (ie: Humux) and they aren't as good a TiVo in so many ways.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Muttley1900 said:


> As some of us S1 owners are not in a vm cabled area and therefore the current offering from VM is not available to us, would you, if TiVo/VM were to launch a freeview TiVo (that say offered some of VM's on demand stuff via broadband and maybe links into iplayer etc etc) sign up for it? And if yes, what would you be willing to pay for it.
> 
> I think I'd go as high as £400 for the unit (if it was mine to keep) and prob circa £10 a month subscription (or in other words, turn the clock back 10 years, but with today's technology  ).
> 
> J.


Yes, £200 for the box and £10 a month or £400 lifetime subscribed - freeview/freesat would both work for me. As the tuners could potentially both be included it needn't be exclusive to either.
I'm a Virgin ADSL customer and bundling the box and VOD over their connections would ensure I stayed with them.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

I think YouView ( http://www.youview.com/ ) will be the winner in the Freeview HD PVR + Internet VOD market, although it won't be out until next year.


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## gazter (Aug 1, 2001)

TCM2007 said:


> You could bundle it free with every PC and provide a free EPG. Instead of "TiVo", which is now exclusively licensed to Virgin, you could call it... how about "Media Center"?
> 
> The only advantages TiVo has over MC7 are that it's a packaged CE product in a box, not a scary PC you have to configure. You put it on a PC and it has no advantages over the built in Windows software.


I cant let that lie, really. I have a now decommissioned Tivo, and using windows 7 mce, combined with a dreambox to pass through my encrypted sky subscription (including hd). Windows 7 MCE is good, it looks nice, it has the important feature of managing season passes by priority.

But, it is no Tivo. There is no intelligent epg, the MS one is pretty poor with digiguide used instead. The setup process is extraordinarily complicated and it is entirely lacking in elegance compared to tivo.

Give me an up to date tivo and MCE will be dropped like a stone.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

I see Apple have a new Mac Mini out for use with TV's.

http://hcc.techradar.com/reviews/ne...media-centre-–-especially-if-you-use-plex-08-

http://www.apple.com/uk/macmini/

Automan.


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## CarlWalters (Oct 17, 2001)

TCM2007 said:


> I think YouView ( http://www.youview.com/ ) will be the winner in the Freeview HD PVR + Internet VOD market, although it won't be out until next year.


Interesting, I wasn't aware of this one. I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks


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## afrokiwi (Oct 6, 2001)

TCM2007 said:


> I think YouView ( http://www.youview.com/ ) will be the winner in the Freeview HD PVR + Internet VOD market, although it won't be out until next year.


I wonder if it works outside the UK.


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## djqster (Oct 22, 2010)

afrokiwi said:


> "We havent quite tied down the launch date yet, but all being well itll be in the first half of 2011."
> 
> Have i lost a year?
> 
> Looks interesting.


??

The 'new' Mini has been out for ages.

Buy one here.

You can get Freeview & Freesat USB dongles, but the resulting kit would be expensive and possibly a bit clunky to use...


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

gazter said:


> But, it is no Tivo. There is no intelligent epg, the MS one is pretty poor with digiguide used instead.


I'm not sure what you mean by that, can you explain?

I've had fewer issues with the EPG than I did with TiVo; the option to supplement the downloaded EPG with the OTA one means that missed starts/ends are a thing of the past. Microsoft data is fine, if a bit slow to add new channels. I've a feeling it's from Tribune, not sure!



> The setup process is extraordinarily complicated and it is entirely lacking in elegance compared to tivo.


Maybe that's the Boxee/Sky thing. Using Freeview tuners the setup procedure is pretty much identical to TiVo's. Easier and more elegant in fact - no messing around with dongles, blasters and IR codes. Introducing HD makes it more complicated, but TiVo can't do that at all!

In use, there's no real difference, except that "hacks" are much easier to install. No taking hard disks out and using Linux CDs. I had Suggestions turned off on my TiVo, so don't miss them at all; I don't think they really worked as advertised, just doing a genre match.



> Give me an up to date tivo and MCE will be dropped like a stone.


I couldn't lose the client-server model now, allowing me to have one repository of TV, films (all my DVDs ripped to a NAS) and music. Stopping watching a programme in the living room, going upstairs and picking up automatically from where you left off in the bedroom is cool. Even having two TiVo boxes wouldn't really cut it from that point of view; twice as much work running them.

I'll be interested to see if the new TiVo matches MC7's more sophisticated season pass options.

"Fortunately" I'm not in cabled area so I don't have to choose.


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## gazter (Aug 1, 2001)

TCM2007 said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by that, can you explain?
> 
> I've had fewer issues with the EPG than I did with TiVo; the option to supplement the downloaded EPG with the OTA one means that missed starts/ends are a thing of the past. Microsoft data is fine, if a bit slow to add new channels. I've a feeling it's from Tribune, not sure!
> 
> ...


The setup for getting sky through is absurdly difficult, but i appreciate thats because Sky make it intentionally as difficult as possible. I have three hd tuners and it runs them all pretty well on a 1080p, but it needs huge amounts of power to do it reliably,

A quad processor, 3gb of memory, an ssd os disk,and an ati5650 graphics card.

Thats a lot of power to do what tivo was doing but in hd (and thats without the need to do on the fly mpeg2 encoding and decoding).

The season pass is certainly functional, but it falls down when running across channels. The failings of the listings and the software to distinguish between episodes means any kind of wishlist type function ends up with 120 episodes of the simpsons within three days.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

I think it must be Sky causing you problems. I run three Freeview (1 HD) tuners into a cheap Atom based low power PC with on-board graphics without issue; it plays back 1080 HD fine.

Don't have any issues with the EPG - it identifies and labels episodes fine, better than TiVo really for the most part. Works across channels no problem (even if you have a single channel SP set, if a clash prevents it recording it will pick up a copy on a +1 channel without being asked). It's possible that the non-Freeview channels are done to a lower standard I guess? Vast majority of my recordings are on the BBC or C4's various variants.


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