# Analog Cable - HD Channels



## greensky (Mar 3, 2010)

I have Comcast analog cable, and they send local HD channels over the analog cable. If I get a Tivo Premier will is be able to get those channels through it's analog tuner?


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## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

greensky said:


> I have Comcast analog cable, and they send local HD channels over the analog cable


No they don't. All HD is digital. Not all digital is HD.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Just some random stuff
Analog cable and Digital cable come through the same coax cable. All HD channels are digital. Many cable systems do not currently encrypt local HD Channels. TiVos Series 3, TiVo HD and Premier all have digital cable tuners built in. They can receive unencrypted local HD channels however they do not map them correctly for that you need cable card(s). 

Good Luck,


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Yes, you can get your locals in HD most likely. However, they will not have guide data so you could only do manual recordings by time. To get guide data for your locals, you either need to use a OTA antenna (if you are in range), or get cablecards.


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## greensky (Mar 3, 2010)

Would Comcast rent out cable cards for basic analog cable or do you think they would require more expensive digital cable for that?


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## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

greensky said:


> Would Comcast rent out cable cards for basic analog cable or do you think they would require more expensive digital cable for that?


I started with a Comcast digital package and CableCARDs. I then dropped to basic cable and they didn't ask for the CableCARDs back and I'm not paying extra for them either. There are no analog stations here being broadcast that are not also being delivered in digital.


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## smock9 (Jun 14, 2006)

ewilts said:


> I started with a Comcast digital package and CableCARDs. I then dropped to basic cable and they didn't ask for the CableCARDs back and I'm not paying extra for them either. There are no analog stations here being broadcast that are not also being delivered in digital.


And you get guide data for those HD channels or can you only schedule by time/channel directly?


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## bbowen (Dec 4, 2007)

I was dealing with analog channels prior to my Cablecard and Tuning Adapter working.

You may get squealing on your analog channels. Some of us are getting that.

My question is how are there still analog channels left? Didn't we have to go all digital in 2010? You know with the big push for everyone to get digital ready tvs?

Or am I confusing things?


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## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

smock9 said:


> And you get guide data for those HD channels or can you only schedule by time/channel directly?


Yes, I'm getting guide data. I still have a full TiVo subscription and the channels are in the right place as far as the TiVo is concerned.


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## smock9 (Jun 14, 2006)

ewilts said:


> Yes, I'm getting guide data. I still have a full TiVo subscription and the channels are in the right place as far as the TiVo is concerned.


That's interesting... I do have some channels that post a message saying a cable card is required. I wouldn't expect to get those without one. But I am able to tune HD channels that are not listed in the guide. How does adding a cablecard cause that set of channels to become listed in the guide. Is guide information embedded in the signal and decoded by the cards?


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## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

smock9 said:


> That's interesting... I do have some channels that post a message saying a cable card is required. I wouldn't expect to get those without one. But I am able to tune HD channels that are not listed in the guide. How does adding a cablecard cause that set of channels to become listed in the guide. Is guide information embedded in the signal and decoded by the cards?


The CableCARD basically says something like "map channel 78-1 to 233". The TiVo guide data says "here's the guide data for channel 233". The TiVo guide data does not know anything about channel 78-1.

CableCARDs are required for three reasons:
1. Decrypt the channels that are encrypted (usually premium channels but can be all of the non-locals)
2. Restrict your device from seeing only those channels you're entitled to
3. Map the channel number from what's actually broadcast to a more user-friendly number.


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## DonB. (Apr 4, 2010)

They started Migrating to digital in 2010, but not all homeowners have been migrated yet, they do it in tiers, and slowly migrate in sections, but from one of the Comcast bulk service reps that I am dealing with in our community said to me that all will be fully migrated by 2011 and there will no longer be any Analog signal, he also said they can get 8 Digital channels for one Analog channel, thus the main reason why they are moving to Digital and for quality reasons also




bbowen said:


> I was dealing with analog channels prior to my Cablecard and Tuning Adapter working.
> 
> You may get squealing on your analog channels. Some of us are getting that.
> 
> ...


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

DonB. said:


> They started Migrating to digital in 2010, but not all homeowners have been migrated yet, they do it in tiers, and slowly migrate in sections, but from one of the Comcast bulk service reps that I am dealing with in our community said to me that all will be fully migrated by 2011 and there will no longer be any Analog signal, he also said they can get 8 Digital channels for one Analog channel, thus the main reason why they are moving to Digital and for quality reasons also


Not for quality reasons but to be able to increase their channel count. That does not necessarily mean better quality.
I know in our area, in one county, Comcast recently dropped most of the analog channels and Comcast added many more HD channels. The quality is still crap since it seems like they are still squeezing 3 channels in the same space that FiOS only uses two.

Picture quality was the same(which is a big difference when compared to FiOS). But they had dozens more HD channels.


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## DaveWhittle (Jul 25, 2002)

bbowen said:


> My question is how are there still analog channels left? Didn't we have to go all digital in 2010? You know with the big push for everyone to get digital ready tvs?
> 
> Or am I confusing things?


I think you are confusing the digital push for over-the-air broadcasters.

All broadcast tv (save a few low power stations) that you pick up with an antenna is now digital. Cable companies put a mix of digital and analog signals through their wire. For example, Comcast here has everything below channel 100 as analog, and the rest is digital. An older cable-ready TV set can pick up the cable-company's analog portion without a cable box. A newer TV (or box like TiVo) with CableCard abilities can get both.


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## badguitar (Apr 15, 2010)

I have Comcast analog cable. $10.72/month. I don't need anything more. In Minneapolis, the analog channels are channels 2-23. They include all the networks, local government and for some reason, WGN. The HD versions of these channels are channels 231-240 and require a digital cable box. When I got my TiVo premiere, I called Comcast and they came out and installed an M-Card. I now get 2-23 (SD) and 231-240 (HD). They charged me $15 to install the card but nothing on a monthly basis - so my cable bill is still $10.72/month. The TiVo guide recognizes the HD channels and I can choose to have season passes record the HD channels - or the SD channels (to save space for syndicated shows that are not in HD).


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## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

badguitar said:


> I have Comcast analog cable. $10.72/month. I don't need anything more. In Minneapolis, the analog channels are channels 2-23. They include all the networks, local government and for some reason, WGN. The HD versions of these channels are channels 231-240 and require a digital cable box. When I got my TiVo premiere, I called Comcast and they came out and installed an M-Card. I now get 2-23 (SD) and 231-240 (HD). They charged me $15 to install the card but nothing on a monthly basis - so my cable bill is still $10.72/month. The TiVo guide recognizes the HD channels and I can choose to have season passes record the HD channels - or the SD channels (to save space for syndicated shows that are not in HD).


I've got the same configuration (2 S cards in my Series 3) in the traditional St. Paul part of the Comcast Twin Cities area. It sure is a nice way to go.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

San Jose CA with Comcast, they will give out cable cards for even limited basic tier. I got a M-card for $1.70/month on top of my $15 limited basic plan. Before I got the cable card, I used to be able to see the locals in analog and with Tivo program guide, and I also got local HD's in clear QAM but no program guide from Tivo. Now with the cable card I can get local HD's with Tivo program guide, it's probably the best $1.70 I've spent with Comcast.


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## scottiep (Nov 3, 2009)

Hi all.

I am a TiVo newbie and my wife and I are becoming increasingly frustrated with our $170 monthly bill to the local cable company for our bundled services.

So, after learning about clear QAM, I've been reading several threads and I've twice tried to see if I could tune these channels. My TV apparently is a HDTV monitor that has HDMI input, but apparently doesn't have the QAM tuner. So, I turned to the refurbished TiVo HD that I bought a few months back.

I pulled out the CableCard, got rid of the existing channel list, then ran the setup again to scan for channels. It picked up the channels that I'd get with a basic, non-digital package, and also found some additional ones like a 70-1.

So, I went through and selected all these additional channels and ask them to be displayed. But once that was completed, I went to those channels and there was nothing there.

So, I've been unable to find the HD locals or anything of that nature. Checking the web, I've found a list showing quite a number of clear QAM channels that are available from my cable company. But, I've been unsuccessful tuning them with my TiVo.

Any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong? Any insight would be appreciated.

scottiep


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Rerun guided setup. Tell it you are going to install cablecards later.


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## scottiep (Nov 3, 2009)

tried again--still no luck. It finds channels, but when I go to those channels, there is nothing there.

I'm wondering if I should call the cable company. Although I know the people in customer service will have no clue what I am talking about.


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## badguitar (Apr 15, 2010)

I don't understand the technology - but I'll tell you about my situation before the M-card to see if it's familiar. 

When I got my HDTV, I did a scan on Comcast. I have basic cable (20 channels, no HD package) I was shocked to find all the HD broadcast channels accessible from my TV. Channels 4.1, 4.2, 5.1, 5.2, 11.1, 11.2, 11.3... etc. My TV could get the HD picture, but my Series 2 TiVo could not. So if I watched via TiVo, it was SD and if I watched live, I could see HD.

When I got my Premiere, I was hoping it could find these channels because the Premiere remote has a "-" button - but no luck. I even tried lying to TiVo and told it it was OTA (tried both jacks on back) to see if it would pick it up. No Luck.

I ended up getting the M-Card from Comcast the the HD channels are way up in the channel 200 range.

But even today, if I bypass TiVo, I get the HD channels on the x.1 channels. I have no idea why.


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## ltxi (Feb 14, 2010)

badguitar said:


> I don't understand the technology - but I'll tell you about my situation before the M-card to see if it's familiar.
> 
> When I got my HDTV, I did a scan on Comcast. I have basic cable (20 channels, no HD package) I was shocked to find all the HD broadcast channels accessible from my TV. Channels 4.1, 4.2, 5.1, 5.2, 11.1, 11.2, 11.3... etc. My TV could get the HD picture, but my Series 2 TiVo could not. So if I watched via TiVo, it was SD and if I watched live, I could see HD.
> 
> ...


Same here except.....I get about half the digital HD channels, mostly the ones still in the basic, analog package through my M-card equipped Tivos eventhough I'm not subscribed to HD.


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## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

badguitar said:


> I don't understand the technology - but I'll tell you about my situation before the M-card to see if it's familiar.
> 
> When I got my HDTV, I did a scan on Comcast. I have basic cable (20 channels, no HD package) I was shocked to find all the HD broadcast channels accessible from my TV. Channels 4.1, 4.2, 5.1, 5.2, 11.1, 11.2, 11.3... etc. My TV could get the HD picture, but my Series 2 TiVo could not. So if I watched via TiVo, it was SD and if I watched live, I could see HD.
> 
> ...


This is known as "Clear QAM" and that's the way it works. It's Comcast that decides where to put the channels. Today, the broadcasters could put a channel at 4.1 at a certain frequency and Comcast will give it to you as channel 200. Tomorrow that frequency could change and Comcast can still map it channel 200.

Your Series 2 couldn't get the channels because they're digital. The S2 can receive and record analog only.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

badguitar said:


> I don't understand the technology - but I'll tell you about my situation before the M-card to see if it's familiar.
> 
> When I got my HDTV, I did a scan on Comcast. I have basic cable (20 channels, no HD package) I was shocked to find all the HD broadcast channels accessible from my TV. Channels 4.1, 4.2, 5.1, 5.2, 11.1, 11.2, 11.3... etc. My TV could get the HD picture, but my Series 2 TiVo could not. So if I watched via TiVo, it was SD and if I watched live, I could see HD.
> 
> ...


Without a cable card you have to do a channel scan, than add the new channels, after that you can tune them on your TiVo but you will not get any guide data for these HD channels.


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## ajv_since03 (Jan 24, 2011)

badguitar said:


> I have Comcast analog cable. $10.72/month. I don't need anything more. In Minneapolis, the analog channels are channels 2-23. They include all the networks, local government and for some reason, WGN. The HD versions of these channels are channels 231-240 and require a digital cable box. When I got my TiVo premiere, I called Comcast and they came out and installed an M-Card. I now get 2-23 (SD) and 231-240 (HD). They charged me $15 to install the card but nothing on a monthly basis - so my cable bill is still $10.72/month. The TiVo guide recognizes the HD channels and I can choose to have season passes record the HD channels - or the SD channels (to save space for syndicated shows that are not in HD).


I've recently moved to Minneapolis and am planning on getting the same basic channels from Comcast. I've been told that there will be a $15 charge for the CableCard install, and a $7 charge per month for the CableCard itself! Do you still get basic + HD for $10.72?
Also, I have not installed the CableCard just yet. My TiVo Premiere is not able to tune to Channel 11; my series 2 TiVo tunes just fine. Called TiVo. They had me look at DVR diagnostics, and we found that while for other channels, the frequency is stable and analog, for Channel 11 the frequency keeps switching between 3 settings:
Frequency *199250KHz Modulation Analog
Frequency *200100KHz Modulation QAM64
Frequency *200100KHz Modulation QAM256
The signal strength has no value against it; on other channels signal strength is 0. TiVo told me to call Comcast and have them increase the signal strength on Channel 11. Not quite sure what to tell Comcast.... Thoughts?
Would a CableCard change this situation?


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## badguitar (Apr 15, 2010)

I just looked at my January statement. I paid $12.71 for what is called "Xfinity TV", 47.95 for Xfinity Internet and $5.26 for taxes etc.. total bill $65.92.

The $12.71 is itemized here (copy/pasted from PDF of statement)

Basic 1 01/12 - 02/11 10.72
in Home Wire Maintenance 01/12 - 02/11 1.99 (rip-off)
Cable Card Equipment 01/12 - 02/11 0.00
Cable Card Equipment 01/12 - 02/11 0.00
*The Equipment Detailed in Your Digital
Package Does Not Apply to Cable Card
Customers.
Total XFINITY TV $12.71

Hope that helps!


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## ajv_since03 (Jan 24, 2011)

Yes, that helps. I will have to see what Comcast ends up doing, and post it once I do get a CableCard.

BTW, I see you have a premiere. Do have any trouble watching Channel 11? Have you ever tried 11 without the CableCard?


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## badguitar (Apr 15, 2010)

No problem at all. The channels 2, 4, 5, 9, 11 (PBS, CBS, ABC, FOX, NBC) come in fine - but in SD. To see the HD versions you have to go to 240, 233, 231, 234, 232 respectively. You can disable the SD channels and just make the HD channels available if desired. Of course, the Channel Guide shows the station names so you don't have to remember the channels.

If the premiere goes out - (it happens) I can tune the TV to 11.1 to get channel 11 in HD (I have a Sony Bravia) and it looks great. I also do this if Tivo is recording two shows and I want to watch a third. Of course, you have to have a splitter so the cable goes right into the TV and Premiere. Then use the input selection on the TV to choose between HDMI and Tuner.

Before the CableCard arrived. NO LUCK tuning Tivo to 11.1, 11.2 etc.


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## ajv_since03 (Jan 24, 2011)

Actually, I am having trouble tuning to just 11 thru the Premiere - not trying 11.1. 2,4,5, 9 etc. show fine, just 11 has issues. I can watch 11 on the TV (SD) and even on my series 2 TiVo, but not on the Premiere. You seem to be getting 11 okay even in SD. I even have a case open with TiVo. They had me look at DVR diagnostics, and we found that while for other channels, the frequency is stable and analog, for Channel 11 the frequency keeps switching between 3 settings:
Frequency *199250KHz Modulation Analog
Frequency *200100KHz Modulation QAM64
Frequency *200100KHz Modulation QAM256
The signal strength has no value against it; on other channels signal strength is 0. TiVo told me to call Comcast and have them increase the signal strength on Channel 11. Not quite sure what to tell Comcast....


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## badguitar (Apr 15, 2010)

Sorry - can't help on the technical stuff. But your post does help me understand why you seemed to be fixated on Channel 11. I know that Julie Nelson is cute and all...


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## ajv_since03 (Jan 24, 2011)

From another thread here I found a reference to [email protected] and I sent out an email. Later that day I got a response back, and after speaking to Deb to explain the issue, she promised to call back the next day, which she did. She mentioned that a tech would need to come by to investigate. We scheduled the service call for that weekend. When the tech came in, I showed him that channel 11 was not working; except NOW IT WAS! It was working just fine. The tech mentioned that TiVo had rolled out an update - he was aware of the update because he had been working with TiVo on another issue. Anyway, I now get channel 11 - and have no explanation as to why I wasn't getting it... Thank you Deb at [email protected] for following up!


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