# Two Tuners?



## andyfoxccp (Apr 8, 2004)

Am I right in thinking the new VM box is a dual tuner unit, rather than triple as per the V+ box?

If that is right is there a triple 'coming soon'?

IF there is a triple, will that be a new box or a firmware upgrade to existing boxes ( is the Tuner a Physical or computed item - I believe it to be physical but I'm old school! )

Finally - the rollout of triples IF physical - can we expect that it will be a process of pull back dual Tivo's and swap or a hassle of 'mine has failed so can I have an engineer and make sure he has one of the new 3 way ones on' whilst new customer just get them - OR will there be a premium to pay to get the new 3 and tiered deployment of Tivo?

Part in my mind wanting to be sure the money I spend this week isn't going to be supplemented with an additional payment very soon I guess.....

Thanks,
Andy


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## nbaker (Sep 28, 2002)

I believe the V+ only has 2 tuners (watch 1 channel record another) where as the new Tivo has 3 (record 2 channels watch another) or will have from March via software update.


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## okonski_uk (Dec 28, 2000)

No, the V+ has 3 tuners, 2 to record and 1 for viewing. The VM tiVo also has 3, but not the software to enable them, this is to be made available by an over the cable d/l in March 2011.


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## andyfoxccp (Apr 8, 2004)

Ta, so running 2 initially with 3rd coming on stream 'soon'. 

Thanks,
Andy


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## jonphil (Aug 7, 2002)

I'm trying to understand if these work different to the SkyHD boxes.
SkyHD has 2 tuners, so can record two things, while watching back a 3rd already recorded program. Iam I right in thinking that currrently this is how Tivo will work.

Once the 3rd tuner is activated it will be able to record 3 things while watching back a pre recorded program.
Just wondering as 'watch' another may mean another live channel or a pre-recorded program?


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## okonski_uk (Dec 28, 2000)

I'm not a Sky customer, but if their HD boxes were the same as Sky Plus, they had only two tuners, not three. The V+ (and Prob TiVo) will use the 3rd tuner for live viewing only. It will take until the firmware update to find out how they've implemented it.


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## nbaker (Sep 28, 2002)

okonski_uk said:


> No, the V+ has 3 tuners


Sorry must of been thinking of SKY+


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## smokie (Dec 27, 2002)

jonphil said:


> SkyHD has 2 tuners, so can record two things, while watching back a 3rd already recorded program.


With V+ you can watch either play back or Live TV (not just playback) at all times. Plus have up to two channels recording at the same time. Subtly different isn't it?


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## big_dirk (Feb 17, 2006)

I don't want to start a rumour or anything....but take a look at the tuner lights on my TiVo.......When one tuner is recording a green light appears under the leftmost graphic, when 2 are recording, a red light then appears under the first and second graphics..............


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## VirginMediaPhil (Nov 27, 2009)

big_dirk said:


> I don't want to start a rumour or anything....but take a look at the tuner lights on my TiVo.......When one tuner is recording a green light appears under the leftmost graphic, when 2 are recording, a green light then appears under the first and second graphics..............
> 
> <snip>


I thought the third tuner wasn't accessible yet? How are you recording twice at once?


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## big_dirk (Feb 17, 2006)

VirginMediaPhil said:


> I thought the third tuner wasn't accessible yet? How are you recording twice at once?


You can record two channels at once, but at present you have to be watching one or the other. I made a mistake as well, the lights are red not green.


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## deshepherd (Nov 30, 2000)

VirginMediaPhil said:


> I thought the third tuner wasn't accessible yet? How are you recording twice at once?


Is it a case that at present you can record 2 programs at once - BUT you wont be able to watch live cable TV at the same time?

I asked a similar question on another thread ... for me having one tuner available for watching live seems to be more important than recording 2 programs at once ... we've managed for past 10 years with a TiVo which could only record one program at once - not being able to tune cable to another channel while doing this has been more of an incovenience than the few occasions where recording two things at once woudl have been helpful.

However, the 2 record + 1 live setup which I think the V-TiVo will eventually support is the best of both worlds.


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## big_dirk (Feb 17, 2006)

deshepherd said:


> Is it a case that at present you can record 2 programs at once - BUT you wont be able to watch live cable TV at the same time?
> 
> I asked a similar question on another thread ... for me having one tuner available for watching live seems to be more important than recording 2 programs at once ... we've managed for past 10 years with a TiVo which could only record one program at once - not being able to tune cable to another channel while doing this has been more of an incovenience than the few occasions where recording two things at once woudl have been helpful.
> 
> However, the 2 record + 1 live setup which I think the V-TiVo will eventually support is the best of both worlds.


yes you are correct. You can watch what you're recording though.

Don't think anyone's gathered what I was hinting at though with my picture....


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## deshepherd (Nov 30, 2000)

big_dirk said:


> You can record two channels at once, but at present you have to be watching one or the other. I made a mistake as well, the lights are red not green.


Is it possible to disable the recording from the "live" channel? As mentioned above to me its more useful to be able to tune cable to any channel at anytime while being able to record 1 program tham be able to record 2 and not be able to choose what cable channel to watch while its recording a 2nd program.


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## big_dirk (Feb 17, 2006)

I think I understand your question......

Put it this way if you choose to record, then change channel to watch another channel, and hit record, it will then be recording both. If you then choose to change channel again, TiVo will prompt you to either bin the current recording and change channel, or stay on the channel.


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## richw (Jul 27, 2002)

big_dirk said:


> Don't think anyone's gathered what I was hinting at though with my picture....


You think wrong


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## nbaker (Sep 28, 2002)

big_dirk said:


> Don't think anyone's gathered what I was hinting at though with my picture....


Well I'm


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## frobozz (May 2, 2002)

deshepherd said:


> However, the 2 record + 1 live setup which I think the V-TiVo will eventually support is the best of both worlds.


I'm guessing this is a typo but on this page, comparing S1 Tivo with VM Tivo it says "Number of shows you can record simultaneously = 3"

http://tivo.virginmedia.com/tivoupgrade/features


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## VirginMediaPhil (Nov 27, 2009)

frobozz said:


> I'm guessing this is a typo but on this page, comparing S1 Tivo with VM Tivo it says "Number of shows you can record simultaneously = 3"
> 
> http://tivo.virginmedia.com/tivoupgrade/features


Well big_dirk has said that you can record twice at once at the moment, as long as you are watching one of the shows you are recording, so whats not to say you could do that when the third tuner is enabled?

I wonder if you'll be able to do it in standby too. Sounds like a very good feature, recording three at once, two at once is usually enough for me, but if I don't have anything to watch on linear TV and I want to record three at once then that's a nice handy feature to have.


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## mike0151 (Dec 13, 2001)

big_dirk said:


> Don't think anyone's gathered what I was hinting at though with my picture....


Something to do with the four squares?


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## big_dirk (Feb 17, 2006)

mike0151 said:


> Something to do with the four squares?


yea....


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## jonphil (Aug 7, 2002)

Isn't one of the lights for when it's streaming content from the net?


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## deshepherd (Nov 30, 2000)

VirginMediaPhil said:


> Well big_dirk has said that you can record twice at once at the moment, as long as you are watching one of the shows you are recording, so whats not to say you could do that when the third tuner is enabled?
> 
> I wonder if you'll be able to do it in standby too. Sounds like a very good feature, recording three at once, two at once is usually enough for me, but if I don't have anything to watch on linear TV and I want to record three at once then that's a nice handy feature to have.


Sounds to me like a potential marketing disaster ... if people start to get the idea that the only way to watch TV live involves having to stop recording something they'd asked to be recorded (or vice versa they can't watch cable TV until the prog they've asked to record completes) then the appearance is that the V-TiVo is giving no advantage over a current setup with a V-box and some form of recorder. If instead you can say the V-TiVo will record up to 2 programs at once and at the same time you can watch something already recorded, something via the VM cathcup/VoD service or live cable TV then that's something new.


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## smokie (Dec 27, 2002)

deshepherd said:


> If instead you can say the V-TiVo will record up to 2 programs at once and at the same time you can watch something already recorded, something via the VM cathcup/VoD service or live cable TV then that's something new.


Am I missing something, isn't that what V+ already does? Not expecting it to be different on my new TiVo...


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

smokie said:


> Am I missing something, isn't that what V+ already does? Not expecting it to be different on my new TiVo...


I think that what others are eluding to is that all 3 of the tuners on the new Tivo box can record as opposed to the V+ which can only record using 2 of its tuners with the 3rd being used for playback/live or VOD tv.

We can only wait and hope that is the case as 3 unattended recordings simultaneously will be another stepup from the V+


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

The 3rd tuner is a dilemma - its in the hardware, but not currently in the software:

1. Add it into Tivo's "pool" of tuners, and you'd be able to record 3 channels at once - but have a situation where you can't channel hop if you're recording all three.

2. Add it on in the style of V+ as a "channel hopping tuner", and you can always view any liveTV channel regardless of what you're recording on the 2 tuners.

If they implement it as (2) I can see us losing live buffer recording - at least when 2 tuners are recording.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

mikerr said:


> The 3rd tuner is a dilemma - its in the hardware, but not currently in the software:
> 
> 1. Add it into Tivo's "pool" of tuners, and you'd be able to record 3 channels at once - but have a situation where you can't channel hop if you're recording all three.
> 
> ...


Mike I agree with your synopsis. It is a dilemma and both options have advantages hence why I said 3 unattended recordings simultaneously


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## jonphil (Aug 7, 2002)

mikerr said:


> The 3rd tuner is a dilemma - its in the hardware, but not currently in the software:
> 
> 1. Add it into Tivo's "pool" of tuners, and you'd be able to record 3 channels at once - but have a situation where you can't channel hop if you're recording all three.


That's how I would expect it to work, on Sky if two programs are recording you are forced to view one of them (no choice which one) and you can then only watch something already recorded.
People who are used to Sky would be used to not having a Live TV option if recording programs. I would prefer all 3 tuners to be available to record as I hardly ever watch anything at all live.


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## Brangdon (Feb 9, 2001)

RichardJH said:


> Mike I agree with your synopsis. It is a dilemma and both options have advantages hence why I said 3 unattended recordings simultaneously


What's the advantage of the second option? To me, if you are only recording 2 channels, the options are indistinguishable, and the second option takes away the ability to record 3 programmes and gains nothing.



jonphil said:


> on Sky if two programs are recording you are forced to view one of them (no choice which one)


I'm surprised at the "no choice" part. I'd have thought you could go to the menu which lists recorded programmes, see the two programmes currently being recorded listed there, and pick one of them to watch. It seems trivial to allow choice, both technically and from a UI point of view. (I don't have Sky+.)


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## deshepherd (Nov 30, 2000)

Brangdon said:


> What's the advantage of the second option? To me, if you are only recording 2 channels, the options are indistinguishable, and the second option takes away the ability to record 3 programmes and gains nothing.


I think there's a big difference between having something that you can view channels "at will" and also be able to record upto 2 programs at the same time and the alternative of something that can record 3 programs at the same time but where if it is recording 3 things you cannot watch a channel of your choice without cancelling something you have asked it to record ... even worse if you don't get to choose which of the 3 programs get cancelled.

Basically I'm speaking on the basis of my experience of my existing TiVo setup ... only being able to record 1 channel has rarely been an issue - there's only one regular clash I can think of where even with the current set of +1 channels that it couldn't record everything we wanted and where a 2nd tuner would have helped. What has been more of an issue is when we have wanted to watch something live and cannot change channels due to TiVo already recording from STB. So for me the 3 tuner set up beings two advantages - 2nd tuner means a small number programs we previously couldn't record due to clashes will now be fixed (though also the easier access to catch-up will also handle this!) and a 3rd tuner to enable live viewing of any cable channel even if TiVo is recording.

Perhaps the solution would be to have an option to control whether scheduled recordings can use 2 or 3 tuners.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

It's funny to see people potentially view the third tuner recording as a bad thing. I know people such as myself who would kill for more than 2 tuners and instead have switched to Windows Media Center since TiVo doesn't offer the option in the States. Then again we also never watch live tv since it is just easier to set a season pass for everything.

As far as being able to cancel one of the three recordings, if it works like the US version it should be easy to do. Assuming you have a Live TV button on the remote, hitting this should swap between the tuners. Otherwise you can hit right once or twice to bring up the full channel banner with description and then down once to a set of arrows where it says what is on the second tuner. Selecting this will also swap tuners. Once on the tuner you want it should tell you what to hit to cancel recording if it is currently recording.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

I'll be happy if it works like the V+, which is what I expect it to do. ie record up to two and watch something else.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

cwaring said:


> I'll be happy if it works like the V+, which is what I expect it to do. ie record up to two and watch something else.


So will I. The 3rd tuner recording would be a minor advantage in certain circumstances



cwaring said:


> I'll be happy if it works like the V+


Not mine you wouldn't. Failed halfway through Fridays recording of the Wales v England Rugby 
Sounds like a failed hard drive. Engineer tomorrow PM. Box swap I guess and am hoping for a Samsung instead of the SA I believe the Samsung runs cooler as it has a fan and it also records radio which the SA doesn't


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## deshepherd (Nov 30, 2000)

Brangdon said:


> I believe the Samsung .... also records radio which the SA doesn't


Now you mention it ... does the V-TiVO record radio?


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## tdenson (Oct 3, 2002)

deshepherd said:


> Now you mention it ... does the V-TiVO record radio?


Excellent question - anyone ??


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

You have attributed to the wrong post re Samsung and Radio it was my post not Brangdon.

Until I (when I get it) or someone else tries it I cannot help with the VM Tivo.

This link is good for comparing the 2 type of V+ box http://www.slideshare.net/Jasmeet_181/samsung-3110-presentation?from=share_email_logout3


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## deshepherd (Nov 30, 2000)

RichardJH said:


> You have attributed to the wrong post re Samsung and Radio it was my post not Brangdon.


Very odd ... I just clicked "reply" and deleted some of the previous text ...can't see how Brangdon got into it!

... Hmm think I might have clicked on "multi-quote" by mistake!


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## smokie (Dec 27, 2002)

tdenson said:


> Excellent question - anyone ??


Channels 901 - 969 (not contigious) are radio and yes, you can record them.


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## VirginMediaPhil (Nov 27, 2009)

smokie said:


> Channels 901 - 969 (not contigious) are radio and yes, you can record them.


No LBC 97.3 FM on channel 973?


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## smokie (Dec 27, 2002)

VirginMediaPhil said:


> No LBC 97.3 FM on channel 973?


My bad, yes that's there.


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## VirginMediaPhil (Nov 27, 2009)

Just thought; 973 is quite a handy channel number for a station on the frequency 97.3, wonder who decided to put it on that particular channel number, Virgin themselves or did LBC request it?


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## Brangdon (Feb 9, 2001)

deshepherd said:


> I think there's a big difference between having something that you can view channels "at will" and also be able to record upto 2 programs at the same time and the alternative of something that can record 3 programs at the same time but where if it is recording 3 things you cannot watch a channel of your choice without cancelling something you have asked it to record ...


We're talking about a 4-way clash: all 3 tuners recording programmes, and a 4th programme I want to watch live. I imagine that would be extremely rare. As you say yourself, even 2-way clashes are quite rare. 3-way clashes are even rarer, and when they do happen, it's often because 2 programmes on one channel are overlapped by a single programme on a second channel, so 2 tuners suffice to record/view it all. A 3-way clash that actually requires 3 tuners is going to be very rare, and a 4-way clash for which 3 tuners isn't enough, very rare indeed.

If a 4-way clash does happen, I don't see a problem in having to pick which one I will defer to catch-up. It's giving me more choice than being unable to handle even a 3-way clash without me having to be present to watch one of the programmes live.



> ... even worse if you don't get to choose which of the 3 programs get cancelled.


Well, yes, but hopefully that won't happen.



> Perhaps the solution would be to have an option to control whether scheduled recordings can use 2 or 3 tuners.


Why not wait until the 4-way clash happens, and then temporarily toggle the option so you can watch the live channel, then toggle it off again when you've finished? To put it another way, why have the option at all?


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## deshepherd (Nov 30, 2000)

Brangdon said:


> We're talking about a 4-way clash: all 3 tuners recording programmes, and a 4th programme I want to watch live. I imagine that would be extremely rare. As you say yourself, even 2-way clashes are quite rare.


Maybe ... but 2-way clash between programs we definitely want to record are rare. However when you add in children who want season passes on progs that get repeated ad infinitum on channels like Dave, Cartoon Network, Boomerang etc then the 2nd and 3rd tuner may rapidly fill up with things that previously were not recorded due to clashes. So long as you can choose which recording program to ditch if you want to watch live then that might be ok ... slight irritant would be if it acted like current TiVo and left a "partial recording" behind.

Anyway, only 3 more days until I can find out for myself!


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## smokie (Dec 27, 2002)

deshepherd said:


> Anyway, only 3 more days until I can find out for myself!


Except it's a bit light in the tuner department until the firmware upgrade comes along (due March)


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## deshepherd (Nov 30, 2000)

smokie said:


> Except it's a bit light in the tuner department until the firmware upgrade comes along (due March)


Yes ... but should get the general idea from 2 tuners. As with many things in computing I think the problem breaks down into two class - 1 tuner and more than 1 tuner!


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## warrenrb (Jul 21, 2002)

It's funny reading people freaking out on the cable forum because it will initially 'only' have 2 tuners, whereas, as someone who has put up with 1 tuner for 8 years, 2 tuners seems brilliant!


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## Tony Hoyle (Apr 1, 2002)

Indeed.. 1 tuner is fine for me


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Tony Hoyle said:


> Indeed.. 1 tuner is fine for me


Due to all the +1s that now exist I have realised that I really do need to set up an SP for any series I want to record on my S1 Tivo on both the parent channel and its +1 or not set up an SP at all on either channel and create a Title Wishlist instead.

The problem with a Title Wishlist on an S1 is you can't prevent it operating on any channel at all you have set in Channels I Receive (is this any different on a Virgin Tivo?). However that is only a serious issue when old series regularly get repeated on other channels like Dave etc (eg with Top Gear or with Doctor Who on BBC Three).

I don't know how the intelligence of two SPs on a parent channel and its +1 versus just a Wishlist and no SPs for that program on either channel in handling recording clashes would compare or if there would be any difference at all.

So the main reason for having multiple tuners on the Virgin Tivo is largely surely for channels that don't have +1s (in the main the BBC). I reckon they would only generally get any serious use between 8pm and 10pm and in those Virgin Tivo households with multiple viewers compared to an S1 Tivo that is making the best of all the +1 channels available on a Sky Freesat setup. The other main reason for three tuners is again also the BBC since it is mainly only their programs that do not generally end on either the hour or half hour so causing far more three way recording clashes.


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## Tony Hoyle (Apr 1, 2002)

I've often done the +1 trick and it's not failed me yet.. the 28 day rule still holds, so it's the same as having an SP that covers 2 channels. We forget how smart tivo is sometimes


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> The problem with a Title Wishlist on an S1 is you can't prevent it operating on any channel at all you have set in Channels I Receive (is this any different on a Virgin Tivo?).


Not as far as I know from what I've read on here.


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## cyril (Sep 5, 2001)

If you are a HD fan you need the multiple tuners due to the complete lack of +1 HD channels, though on occasion BBC-one-HD stuff is repeated later on BBCHD and E4HD stuff is repeated on C4HD.

A smarter version of Sky's Anytime would be nice as this would on the odd occasion help avoid HD scheduling clashes (e.g. Boardwalk Empire was on in HD on Anytime though that's the first time I needed Anytime for many months).


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Tony Hoyle said:


> I've often done the +1 trick and it's not failed me yet.. the 28 day rule still holds, so it's the same as having an SP that covers 2 channels. We forget how smart tivo is sometimes


So are you saying you use a Title Wishlist rather than set an SP on each channel?

On the whole a Wishlist is theoretically better because if Tribune orphans an episode in a series a Title Wishlist should still pick it up but a Season Pass won't. The big downside of Wishlists is picking up runs of previous series on other channels, especially on the satellite multi channel stuff like UK Gold or whatever they call it these days. Fortunately as I'm not a paying Sky subscriber I don't have most of those repeats only channels in my Channels I Receive.

At the end of the day it seems that the use of a Wishlist is better when a program is only broadcast on one channel and its +1 but a season pass on the main channel and its +1 is better when retreads of earlier series are regularly broadcast on multi channel tv etc. Also even though BBC One and BBC Two do not have a +1 a lot of their episodes are repeated later (as in months or a year later) on BBC Three or BBC Four so again an SP may work better for those programs as the 28 day rule will not work and they will be recorded again by a Wishlist. Also I seem to recall that the BBC treats the overnight signed versions for the deaf of its programs oddly and that they can be picked up again by a Wishlist in addition to the original recording.

I'm amazed to hear that the new S4 Virgin Tivo does not have a facility for a Wishlist to only operate on the channels you want it to operate on and/or does not have a facility to exclude certain channels from a Wishlist.


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## Tony Hoyle (Apr 1, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> So are you saying you use a Title Wishlist rather than set an SP on each channel?


The opposite, in fact. I use an SP for each possible channel that a series may be broadcast on. For some of the BBC channels that can be as many as 3 - BBC One, BBC HD, BBC Three.

I've never entirely trusted wishlists.. but that's my personal control freakery 

I'd love a way to filter out the signed versions.. bane of my life


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> The big downside of Wishlists is picking up runs of previous series on other channels, especially on the satellite multi channel stuff like UK Gold or whatever they call it these days. Fortunately as I'm not a paying Sky subscriber I don't have most of those repeats only channels in my Channels I Receive.


That's what the First Run Only / Repeats & First Run option is for, to filter out old episodes.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> So the main reason for having multiple tuners on the Virgin Tivo is largely surely for channels that don't have +1s


AFAIK HD channels do not have +1's so 2 or 3 tuners solve conflicts when wanting to record HD


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

RichardJH said:


> AFAIK HD channels do not have +1's so 2 or 3 tuners solve conflicts when wanting to record HD


Good point. However surely on cable a +1 HD channel does not present any bandwidth issues as it is a switched system. Unfortunately however it does very much present bandwidth issues over on satellite and as Sky and the BBC (who are forbidden from having +1 channels by the regulators) are jointly the market leaders in the UK in HD and Virgin is getting out of the business of running channels that is presumably why there is no push to have them so far.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> That's what the First Run Only / Repeats & First Run option is for, to filter out old episodes.


In theory yes but in practice no as that flag is often wrongly set by Tribune on the S1 (due to first runs of US series being in the USA on an earlier date than the UK's first run etc, etc) and if you choose First Run Only you run a very large risk of not recording something that is First Run but is wrongly marked as not being so in the EPG data.

You can of course have both an SP and a Wishlist for a program for a truly belt and braces approach. The penalty however is some recordings of earlier series runs of some programs on other channels (or even completely irrelevant programs or episodes of another series that just happen to share the same name as has just happened to me with a non Little Britain originated episode entitled "Come Fly With Me" on another channel during the last few days)


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## Tony Hoyle (Apr 1, 2002)

FRO can never be totally accurate... First run for me might not be first run for you, if you have a different set of channels to me. 

I tend to set it only when I have prior knowledge that I'm definitely recording from the channel it's shown on first, eg. Dr Who on BBC 1.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

It can be now, as it can be set for Virgin XL channels first run!

I would expect that as the number of TiVo users heads rapidly towards a million in the coming months of the roll out, the quality of the guide data should improve a lot, at least for the channels Virgin shows.


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