# 20.5.6 - C501 Errors (with Blue Spinning Circles)



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

While navigating TiVo Central following the 20.5.6 software update, I repeatedly encounter Blue Spinning Circles, followed by C501 error messages.

This is an annoyance and inconvenience, but* is not affecting use of my TiVo* - daily calls complete normally, online videos stream, search & explore functions are fully operational, and OnePass scheduling operates normally, as does video playback and recording. All network tests pass.

I was eventually told this issue was being tracked (my first question for the initial support rep, long, long ago...), but only after multiple tech support calls triggered an attempted transfer to next level support.

*Anyone else?*


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

NorthAlabama said:


> While navigating TiVo Central following the 20.5.6 software update, I repeatedly encounter Blue Spinning Circles, followed by C501 error messages.
> 
> This is an annoyance and inconvenience, but* is not affecting use of my TiVo* - daily calls complete normally, online videos stream, search & explore functions are fully operational, and OnePass scheduling operates normally, as does video playback and recording. All network tests pass.
> 
> ...


yes on a roamio the error totally takes cox ondemand down


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

ajwees41 said:


> yes on a roamio the error totally takes cox ondemand down


sorry to hear (i've been reading cox vod was just recently launched). my comcast vod is still working.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

No errors on my dual tuner premiere.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

shwru980r said:


> No errors on my dual tuner premiere.


if i'm quick enough during my selections, i don't receive the error, either, but if i highlight an option in tivo central (below "manage") and wait, it happens every time.

would you be willing to test something for me?

launch tivo central (hdui), navigate down to any item below "manage" - music, apps, settings - and leave the item highlighted for a few seconds.

do you see the error now?


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## bd177 (Oct 22, 2010)

NorthAlabama said:


> if i'm quick enough during my selections, i don't receive the error, either, but if i highlight an option in tivo central (below "manage") and wait, it happens every time.
> 
> would you be willing to test something for me?
> 
> ...


 Just tried this, didn't see any errors. (2-tuner premiere)


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

bd177 said:


> Just tried this, didn't see any errors. (2-tuner premiere)


thanks. which service provider? this has been reported by cox users, but i'm on comcast.


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## bd177 (Oct 22, 2010)

NorthAlabama said:


> thanks. which service provider? this has been reported by cox users, but i'm on comcast.


 Verizon FIOS.


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## ktk0117 (Aug 23, 2008)

NorthAlabama said:


> if i'm quick enough during my selections, i don't receive the error, either, but if i highlight an option in tivo central (below "manage") and wait, it happens every time.
> 
> would you be willing to test something for me?
> 
> ...


This is exactly what happens to me after the update, anything below "Manage..." that get highlighted for more then like 4 seconds.

Any resolution to this? My call to Tivo was unsuccessfull


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

nope. i sent an email to margret at tivo dot com, subject 20.5.6 C501, then opened ticket with tech support who added my tivo to an existing list (they say it's a known issue).


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## davidblackledge (Sep 9, 2008)

NorthAlabama said:


> nope. i sent an email to margret at tivo dot com, subject 20.5.6 C501, then opened ticket with tech support who added my tivo to an existing list (they say it's a known issue).


Did you "add an app" with Reversi or EnterWebz.tv prior to the update?
WMcBrine and I believe this is the Bolt's broken "Add an App" feature getting added to Roamio and Premiere (and Mini) models with the update.

Thanks for opening the ticket. I'm hopeful they'll fix the problem (vs. just delete the "Add an App" feature and the apps you added).
I also sent Margret an email just before I saw this post.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

davidblackledge said:


> Did you "add an app" with Reversi or EnterWebz.tv prior to the update?


nope. margret has been silent (no response), tech support says they're still collecting info as they haven't identified any patterns - the affected users are random and inconsistent, across different models and configurations.

if they're still collecting info, it might be an indication this isn't going away soon, and that could make it a deal breaker for me. i don't appreciate having a stop clock ticking as i browse tivo central, or having to plan my route in advance to ensure i have enough time to make it to the desired page before it times out and i have to start over.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

davidblackledge said:


> Did you "add an app" with Reversi or EnterWebz.tv prior to the update?
> WMcBrine and I believe this is the Bolt's broken "Add an App" feature getting added to Roamio and Premiere (and Mini) models with the update.


To elaborate: on the Bolt, trying to use "Add an App" to enter the IP address of an HME server resulted in a 503 error; the new, 501 error appears where Apps had previously been Added (presumably it only fails to appear on the Bolt because the Bolt shipped with the 503 error, so no apps were ever added there). 501 may have been there, lurking, alongside 503 the whole time; or it might be new, since (from what I can tell so far) it can only be seen on systems that didn't always have 503.

HME itself is still working, in the form of apps announced to the LAN via zeroconf; it's only the "Add an App" system that's broken. However, boxes getting 501 errors never get to the point of rendering the list of local apps, so in practice they still don't work.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> nope.


Or the long-gone Apps.tv or PlayTeeVee, from back in the day? Or any other that I haven't heard of?


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

wmcbrine said:


> Or the long-gone Apps.tv or PlayTeeVee, from back in the day? Or any other that I haven't heard of?


haven't added any app (or attempted to add any app) since the box was new.

tech support confirmed my network showed no errors from tivo's side (using a linksys wireless bridge).


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

davidblackledge said:


> Did you "add an app" with Reversi or EnterWebz.tv prior to the update?
> WMcBrine and I believe this is the Bolt's broken "Add an App" feature getting added to Roamio and Premiere (and Mini) models with the update.
> 
> Thanks for opening the ticket. I'm hopeful they'll fix the problem (vs. just delete the "Add an App" feature and the apps you added).
> I also sent Margret an email just before I saw this post.


That's the same error code Cox customers have been getting ever since TiVo added Cox Ondemand also


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## davidblackledge (Sep 9, 2008)

ajwees41 said:


> That the same error code Cox customers have been getting ever since TiVo added Cox Ondemand also


That actually makes sense. the Xfinity Ondemand app is an HME app, it's like TiVo adding an "add an app" on their own that you can't delete.

So... yeah, that makes a lot of sense, actually... some people have the error, some don't... most likely the ones that have the error either did "Add an App" or they have an on demand or other TiVo-added HME app.

I can almost guarantee that's why Live365 was removed: it was the last remaining tivo-added HME app, Live365 wouldn't fund a non-HME version, and it was causing their Bolt tests to error out. They probably didn't have the HME ondemand apps included in their Bolt Tests or something. Just a theory, but sounds likely.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

davidblackledge said:


> That actually makes sense. the Xfinity Ondemand app is an HME app, it's like TiVo adding an "add an app" on their own that you can't delete.
> 
> So... yeah, that makes a lot of sense, actually... some people have the error, some don't... most likely the ones that have the error either did "Add an App" or they have an on demand or other TiVo-added HME app.
> 
> I can almost guarantee that's why Live365 was removed: it was the last remaining tivo-added HME app, Live365 wouldn't fund a non-HME version, and it was causing their Bolt tests to error out. They probably didn't have the HME ondemand apps included in their Bolt Tests or something. Just a theory, but sounds likely.


what about the other apps like plex and Iheart radio why aren't having the same issue?


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## davidblackledge (Sep 9, 2008)

ajwees41 said:


> what about the other apps like plex and Iheart radio why aren't having the same issue?


They don't use HME, they're HTML5 apps.

Before the Premiere, the only app technology TiVo had was their HME system, and most of the menus used that system, too.

With Premiere, they started using Flash and eventually HTML5.

They've decided to get rid of everything but HTML5 for apps which is a good idea in general since more apps already exist (the Opera store) and the machines are powerful enough to handle it now, but it means every app had to be rewritten or abandoned. 
They still had HME ability in the system so they could keep all the older apps and I, wmcbrine, and others could make use of the feature. I'm guessing they forgot to test some stuff with the update because they thought they were done with HME.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

davidblackledge said:


> They don't use HME, they're HTML5 apps.
> 
> Before the Premiere, the only app technology TiVo had was their HME system, and most of the menus used that system, too.
> 
> ...


How hard would it be/take to rewrite the Comcast and cox ondemand apps in HTML5?


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## davidblackledge (Sep 9, 2008)

ajwees41 said:


> How hard would it be/take to rewrite the Comcast and cox ondemand apps in HTML5?


Hard to say... Depends who writes it, for one. TiVo is apparently short staffed in this area. I think that's part of this whole move - go with a more industry-wide technology so you can get the individual companies to write the apps, rather than TiVo having to do it.

Having ondemand in HME made sense so they could work with Series 2 and 3 owners, too. Now that it's written, they could "start over" with an HTML5 app for Premiere and above, but now they're saddling themselves with maintaining TWO apps, and it's hard enough to get these folks to make changes in one. Either they don't have the time because it's not their main business, or they are contracting it out and didn't budget the cost of a major update.

I think the biggest problem is all the other HTML5 apps function in more devices than TiVo, but HTML5 ondemand apps would specifically only work on cable devices with HTML5 capability... pretty much just TiVo - a much smaller market.

And now that I think of it, there is a technology issue, too. I don't know how the ondemand apps work with the cable company, but it's a possibility that TiVo added hidden features to HME to make it able to do the "ondemand" commands usually handled by the cable company box. HTML5 is more general purpose, although I guess they could enhance TiVo's implementation that way, too, but HME was entirely TiVo-built and easier to enhance (and buggier as a result).


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

davidblackledge said:


> Hard to say... Depends who writes it, for one. TiVo is apparently short staffed in this area. I think that's part of this whole move - go with a more industry-wide technology so you can get the individual companies to write the apps, rather than TiVo having to do it.
> 
> Having ondemand in HME made sense so they could work with Series 2 and 3 owners, too. Now that it's written, they could "start over" with an HTML5 app for Premiere and above, but now they're saddling themselves with maintaining TWO apps, and it's hard enough to get these folks to make changes in one. Either they don't have the time because it's not their main business, or they are contracting it out and didn't budget the cost of a major update.
> 
> ...


As far as I know on demand for both is Premire or newer, so they could be on on HTML already maybe.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

At least for series 4/5 TiVos, Cox VOD is a flash uri launch point built into TiVo GUI, not HME:

```
x-tivo:flash:tivo_hdui?screenName=vod&entryPoint=/COX&partnerId=tivo:pt.1006014&root=true
```


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## vitamina (Dec 22, 2010)

moyekj said:


> At least for series 4/5 TiVos, Cox VOD is a flash uri launch point built into TiVo GUI, not HME:
> 
> ```
> x-tivo:flash:tivo_hdui?screenName=vod&entryPoint=/COX&partnerId=tivo:pt.1006014&root=true
> ```


So glad to see you here, Moyekj. For those of you who don't know, Moyekj is the current wizard behind THE killer TiVo app, Streambaby.

Ever since the 20.5.6 update that added channel logos to the TiVo program guide, I've also been seeing the C501 Errors (with Blue Spinning Circles™). I'm on a TiVo Premier 4 running 20.5.6.RC14-01-2-746. Interestingly, my Premier XL4 running 20.5.2a-01-2-758 is still working fine. However, I'm not aware of any way to prevent it from getting the update, so I suspect it's only a matter of time before it breaks too.

As described above, simply hovering (without pressing 'Select') over the Music and Photos, or Apps and Games menu for more than a couple of seconds causes the Blue Spinning Circles™ to appear, followed approximately 10 seconds later by the C501 Error. Coincidentally, and as another point of data for troubleshooting, I am also a Cox subscriber. The Cox On DEMAND feature is working on both TiVos.

I wonder if wmcbrine and davidblackleddge are on to something with their comments about the HME menus above? That I'm aware, the only HME app I am running is Streambaby. I used to run TiVo Desktop, until I found Streambaby. Since then I have disabled the TiVo Server (though I keep the software around as a hedge against problems like this.)

Anyway, I hope this information is helpful. I haven't seen anyone else reporting this issue specifically as it relates to Streambaby. I can only hope that HME vs. Flash\HTML5 difference is the key to a solution, and that you are able to conjure up a fix.


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## Mauly (Oct 5, 2011)

I'm running a Premier XL2 on Comcast... After the update it wouldn't load Pandora (C501 error). Then I rebooted and now Pandora loads. I just looked at 'Settings/Recordings/OnePass' and got a C501. I tried to repeat the same sequence and it did not come back. Something is screwed up....
BTW, I'm not doing any streaming or server actions.


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## Damiansnpvp4 (Feb 6, 2015)

Thank you so much Moyekj for keeping the best Tivo app Streambaby running so well. It seems to be able to handle just about anything I throw at it. Played over 800 movies/tv so far, in many different formats & had only 1 movie that did not play! There is nothing available anywhere that works so well, thanks again.

Now I only wish I could use Streambaby. As of 10/2015 It started, "The Blue Circle of Death" followed by C501 error. Because Streambaby is located on the 2nd page, it does not show up, only the 1st page with the Opera app at the top. I have to wait until the spinning circle ends before I'm able to scroll down to Streambaby. Because the spinning circle is followed by C501 error, I'm not able to scroll down to 2nd page to select Streambaby before the C501 error shows up. 

User Vitamina, are you still having the C501 error? Have you found a fix, so we can use Streambaby again. If we could only move Streambaby to the 1st screen where Opera app is, that would solve the problem by allowing us to quickly select Streambaby before the C501. This way we would not get the C501, which would allow us to use Streambaby. Oh I forgot to mention, my other unit the mini works perfectly with no blue circle of death, go figure.


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## vitamina (Dec 22, 2010)

Damiansnpvp4 said:


> User Vitamina, are you still having the C501 error? Have you found a fix, so we can use Streambaby again. If we could only move Streambaby to the 1st screen where Opera app is, that would solve the problem by allowing us to quickly select Streambaby before the C501. This way we would not get the C501, which would allow us to use Streambaby. Oh I forgot to mention, my other unit the mini works perfectly with no blue circle of death, go figure.


Still having the error. Also, normally Streambaby appears on the 1st screen for me. Since the update, it doesn't appear at all, so I'm not sure that simply moving it to the first screen would achieve the desired result. I've started using Plex, which is a reasonable alternative, though quite a bit slower. I still prefer to use Streambaby on my XL4.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Damiansnpvp4 said:


> Thank you so much Moyekj for keeping the best Tivo app Streambaby running so well. It seems to be able to handle just about anything I throw at it. Played over 800 movies/tv so far, in many different formats & had only 1 movie that did not play! There is nothing available anywhere that works so well, thanks again.
> 
> Now I only wish I could use Streambaby. As of 10/2015 It started, "The Blue Circle of Death" followed by C501 error. Because Streambaby is located on the 2nd page, it does not show up, only the 1st page with the Opera app at the top. I have to wait until the spinning circle ends before I'm able to scroll down to Streambaby. Because the spinning circle is followed by C501 error, I'm not able to scroll down to 2nd page to select Streambaby before the C501 error shows up.


 Note that I think it would be possible to launch streambaby on the TiVo via kmttg via RPC as a workaround (just like it can launch TiVo's apps from kmttg Remote control) if you're interested in pursuing that further...


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## Damiansnpvp4 (Feb 6, 2015)

vitamina said:


> Still having the error. Also, normally Streambaby appears on the 1st screen for me. Since the update, it doesn't appear at all, so I'm not sure that simply moving it to the first screen would achieve the desired result. I've started using Plex, which is a reasonable alternative, though quite a bit slower. I still prefer to use Streambaby on my XL4.


Streambaby has always been on my 2nd screen or so called scrolling down to it, so mine does not show up either. Using Plex! You have to kidding, its no good at all. Plex looks nice, but I can not get it to play much at all. It has problems with MKV, H264 & sometimes AVI format.


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## Damiansnpvp4 (Feb 6, 2015)

moyekj said:


> Note that I think it would be possible to launch streambaby on the TiVo via kmttg via RPC as a workaround (just like it can launch TiVo's apps from kmttg Remote control) if you're interested in pursuing that further...


Ok, you loss me. Forgive me, but I do not know what kmttg vs RPC is, so I do not know how to pursue that any further. I have no knowledge of how to do this, is it easy to do & is there a step by step instructions somewhere on how to do it. Thanks, damiansnpvp


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Damiansnpvp4 said:


> Ok, you loss me. Forgive me, but I do not know what kmttg vs RPC is, so I do not know how to pursue that any further. I have no knowledge of how to do this, is it easy to do & is there a step by step instructions somewhere on how to do it. Thanks, damiansnpvp


kmttg has a virtual remote that is already able to launch applications such as Netflix on a series 4 or higher TiVo.
See the "Launch App" button in picture below.








What I'm saying is it's conceivable that I could add "streambaby" as a choice to be able to launch from kmttg virtual remote.

i.e. Instead of launching streambaby from the TiVo itself, you could run kmttg and launch it on your TiVo from kmttg.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

FYI, I was able to get streambaby launch working from kmttg in a test development version.


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## elenaran (Oct 17, 2006)

moyekj that would be awesome. I'm now stuck getting these C501 errors and have to disable HD menus in order to access streambaby


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

elenaran said:


> moyekj that would be awesome. I'm now stuck getting these C501 errors and have to disable HD menus in order to access streambaby


 Version 2.1i of kmttg released a short while ago has streambaby launch available.


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