# Can I TiVo without cable or antenna?



## mschwab (Feb 20, 2000)

After more than a decade on DirecTV using two HD DirecTiVos, we're finally fed up with DirecTV. (No CBS, no Pac-12, lots of dead air lately) But, we don't want to give up the TiVo "trick play" method of pause, Rew/FF, which seems to be patented by TiVo corporation. Dish Hopper 3 looks good, but expensive, but their Rew is just a 10 second skip back, and their FF is just a 30 sec skip ahead. And all the the streaming services (we have Firestick or LG TV apps for all of them) also just skip ahead. Nobody but TiVo seems to have the smooth Rew/FF where you can actually see the show slide by rapidly, and react to it. 

Next problem - we live in a dead zone in the mountains so we can't get anything by antenna. And our only cable choice is terrible, with very little HD.

Can we get a TiVo Bolt or Roamio and ONLY use the streaming services? (Like Netflix, Playstation Vue, Sling TV, or You Tube TV)? And can we then record shows off those streaming services, and use the real TiVo trick play Rew/FF on those streaming shows?


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

No antenna and no cable ... no reason to have a TiVo.


----------



## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

mschwab said:


> After more than a decade on DirecTV using two HD DirecTiVos, we're finally fed up with DirecTV. (No CBS, no Pac-12, lots of dead air lately) But, we don't want to give up the TiVo "trick play" method of pause, Rew/FF, which seems to be patented by TiVo corporation. Dish Hopper 3 looks good, but expensive, but their Rew is just a 10 second skip back, and their FF is just a 30 sec skip ahead. And all the the streaming services (we have Firestick or LG TV apps for all of them) also just skip ahead. Nobody but TiVo seems to have the smooth Rew/FF where you can actually see the show slide by rapidly, and react to it.
> 
> Next problem - we live in a dead zone in the mountains so we can't get anything by antenna. And our only cable choice is terrible, with very little HD.
> 
> Can we get a TiVo Bolt or Roamio and ONLY use the streaming services? (Like Netflix, Playstation Vue, Sling TV, or You Tube TV)? And can we then record shows off those streaming services, and use the real TiVo trick play Rew/FF on those streaming shows?


you cant record streaming services so that ends that


----------



## mschwab (Feb 20, 2000)

compnurd said:


> you cant record streaming services so that ends that


Yep, sounds like. It's a shame that TiVo has so zealously defended the trick play that I just can't use it anymore! I started with buying one of the very first TiVo's sold in my local Circuit City, and managed to use it with a Dish receiver! (Remember the IR blaster, anyone? It was always a crap shoot whether the TiVo managed to correctly change the channel on the Dish receiver for a recording!)

Thanks for the replies.


----------



## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

OP: FWIW, DirecTV DVRs and Dish DVR as well as any DVR out there on the market have the so-called trick play of skip forward and skip back with fast forward various speeds and Rewind various speed showing video while rewinding or fast-forwarding where you can then push play or stop and then View. I have no idea why you think TiVo is the only DVR with so-called trick play because it isn't and never was.

TiVo and other DVR makers patent the _*method *_of how the software or even Hardware achieve the trick play features. TiVo has never, nor could TiVo ever, nor any other DVR maker, ever patent the idea or feature of trick play, and this is why just about every DVR on the market has trick play features just like Tivo's, and this includes some of the same features as Tivo's such as Season Pass, To Do List, Etc. but of course they are given a different name for the featute and achieve virtually all the same features, but in a different way, unique set of code and/or hardware different than a TiVo, but the experience is the same on other DVRs. in fact I had a few VCRs that are capable of 1.5 x playback that allowed viewing the taped program in less time than a normal speed. It was many years later about TiVo developed the same feature but in use for its digital DVR product.

And as for the streaming devices: yes they also offer fast forward and Rewind but that is not so much dependent upon not the streaming player, rather dependant on the app or service such as Netflix, Hulu, Etc. having such a feature built into the app. I seem to recall Netflix does have some video that displays during fast forward or rewind that you can use to find your place. On the other hand, I can't recall if Hulu has the same small screen of video over the progression line so that you can see the scenes and when to resume play.

Bottom line: about every DVR out there has the same trick play features as TiVo. How you came to the conclusion that neither DirecTV or dish DVRs don't have fast forward or rewind is puzzling to me. Perhaps you never operated or played with these other DVR's yourself as a first-hand experience. However one explanation could be that on many of the remotes of other DVRs there is a skip forward and Skip backward button, but in order to enter fast forward and Rewind you have to keep the skip forward or skip backward button depressed for a few seconds for the fast forward or rewind to begin. The purpose of using one button for more than one feature is designed for the purpose of having as few buttons on a remote control as possible because It is believed that the more buttons, the more confused many people can become, although I think some people are better off with every button doing something different but that isn't the new design of the day.

I have various generations of TiVo's and I like them very much. TiVo is the best cable and over-the-air DVR on the market today--no contest! it's only downside is the Hefty upfront commitment in cost, although TiVo has recently started a more affordable way of getting TiVo with zero down, but even that may not be enough to pull people away from their cable DVRs, and cable's attempt to discourage and sabotage any installation of a TiVo--with lies about not supporting cable card and whatever other lies they come up with-- does not help matters for conversion to TiVo, either. I also have two Dish Hopper 3's in our household and overall the Dish Hopper 3's are better than the TiVo's. I won't go into a list of reasons why, but even the Dish clients are a better experience than the TiVo clients, especially the Joey 3.

As someone already stated, if you're not going to have either cable or OTA there really is no point in having a TiVo because for apps such as Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, Etc. you're much better off with a streaming device that has much better performance than any of the Tivo's. So, go ahead and consider just about any other DVR on the market if it fits your needs, but if it's just apps, I personally would choose the Amazon Fire cube for it's very high specs and Alexa features and very good performance with apps. Good luck.


----------



## mschwab (Feb 20, 2000)

We have an older FireStick, and we've just been trying out YouTube TV (app on our LG TV). The FF there is a jump forward 15 seconds, where you can't see what went by during those 15 seconds. If you press and hold the FF, then it keeps playing the video normal speed in the full screen (which is distracting), but also pops up a smaller window which shows the program zipping by at very high speed. That tiny window and very high FF speed makes it hard for me to really determine where I am in the show. Amazon Prime movies on the FireStick behave pretty much the same way when you press and hold FF. I wouldn't call that the same as TiVo trick play.

The unique TiVo trick play I'm talking about is this: when you hit FF once, it goes in to 3x fast forward (>), where you can see every frame full screen, they just go by 3 times faster (so you can see what you are FFing thru). When you hit FF a second or third time (>> or >>>) it goes even faster (I believe 10x and 30x), but you can still see the show flying by, on the full screen. If you FF a 4th time, it goes back to normal Play speed. I automatically hit FF 3 times (>>>) when FFing past commercials.

More subtle is the really unique TiVo feature, that some have called "slip back", where if you are FFing >> or >>>, then hit Play, it actually jumps back a few seconds (because it's assuming you're going to overshoot). There's more jump back in >>> than in >>. We discussed this feature ad-nauseum on this forum in the original TiVo beta testing phase and beyond. I don't think any other DVR does that.

I've never had a non-TiVo DirecTV DVR, so I don't know if they have a similar trick play. It's possible, since DIrecTV has an agreement with TiVo corporation.

I have not been able to sit down and actually play with a Dish Hopper 3 (before I sign up for a 2 year commitment), because they don't seem to have any stores in Denver where you can actually play with the equipment. (Ironic, since Dish is based in Denver!). But I did watch a video showing the trick play, and asked the question many times in chat and forums, and hitting the FF once always simply leaps forward 30 seconds, without letting you see what you just skipped over. Pressing and holding FF will go first to a 15x fast forward (there used to be a 4x first, but they eliminated that). It does appear to FF full screen, but 15x being the slowest FF speed seems a little extreme. With TiVo we have 3x and 10x modes if we want to better watch what is going by.

With the "DVR" problems we have seen so far on YouTube TV (no you can't skip commercials on CBS or CW recordings, because it always forces you in to the VoD version, with un-skippable commercials), we'll probably end up canceling DirecTV and going with Dish, so we can get back CBS, get Pac12 for the first time, and hopefully avoid all the "Searching for satelite 771" errors we have been getting with DirecTV for the past few weeks.


----------



## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

mschwab said:


> The unique TiVo trick play I'm talking about is this: when you hit FF once, it goes in to 3x fast forward (>), where you can see every frame full screen, they just go by 3 times faster (so you can see what you are FFing thru). When you hit FF a second or third time (>> or >>>) it goes even faster (I believe 10x and 30x), but you can still see the show flying by, on the full screen. If you FF a 4th time, it goes back to normal Play speed. I automatically hit FF 3 times (>>>) when FFing past commercials..


FWIW, the FireTV Recast DVR displays the same trick play you desire- small window on the scrub bar showing full frame, 3 shuttle speed settings, increasing shuttle speed with each click, and left toggle on the select ring backs up 10 seconds, or 30 second advance from the right toggle. The latter is no different from the previous hack but now official movement from pushing the ->| button on the peanut remote. My point of all that is the specific type of trick play isn't unique to TiVo. That said, an over the air DVR requires an over the air antenna signal.

Many of the OTT streaming services (Hulu Live, SlingTV, etc) with DVR prohibit or inhibit fast forward skip through commercials on playback, dependent upon the restrictions of the content provider.


----------

