# Tivo and Comcast/Xfinity Woes



## MichaelCoffin (Nov 28, 2014)

I've been using Tivo since my first Series 3 so many years ago I can't recall. I currently have two Roamio Pro units at two different properties, and about 6 Tivo minis. I absolutely love Tivo (especially my current configuration with the minis), but Comcast is the only service provider here, and it's getting harder and harder to use Tivo with Comcast.


Earlier this year Comcast killed off the On Demand app for Tivo, and killed my access to the On Demand content included with my service!
Earlier this year Comcast replaced Cinemax with Hitz. Hitz is an "on demand" service, not a broadcast channel. Since we don't have a Tivo On Demand app we can't access this programming either!
Comcast refuses to recognize Tivo devices for HBO GO, so I pay for that and can't use it either!
Not a Tivo problem, but today I discovered that Comcast moved TCM into a "sports" package, so even though I pay over $200 a month for Digital Premiere to have access to all the movie channels, now they want another $10/month JUST for TCM! 
Tivo either needs to get Comcast to change their evil ways (unlikely!), or find a way to make Roku work with Roamio and later Tivos! Comcast recognizes Roku for HBO GO and has an On Demand app that works with Roku. They don't seem to be making any changes that would negatively impact Roku users (well, the TCM change impacts everybody - including customers who rent their crappy boxes!). How about upgrading Tivo to work with a Roku stick that I can plug into a USB port on the Roamio? That would expand Tivo usability using hardware that Comcast will continue to support going forward. I know I can just plug a Roku into my TV, but I already have my Roamio as the center of all programming - I don't want to have to rewire my audio systems and be switching between Roamio/Roku, and obviously want the minis to have access to the Roku-enabled content over Moca as well.


----------



## jaredmwright (Sep 6, 2004)

Well said, I feel the same frustration. I keep hoping that TiVo will address the on demand situation with an updated app, but my fear is it will only be available on the Hydra interface which I don't want, sigh... Sooner rather than later we may be a TiVo less family and just go to smart devices such as Roku or Amazon and move on.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## KevTech (Apr 15, 2014)

jaredmwright said:


> I keep hoping that TiVo will address the on demand situation with an updated app


That is up to Comcast as they provide the app.


----------



## jaredmwright (Sep 6, 2004)

KevTech said:


> That is up to Comcast as they provide the app.


Agree, but don't think for a minute that the litigation and actions of TiVo aren't at play here in the decision and choices that Comcast makes.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## tiv0 newbie (Aug 28, 2015)

MichaelCoffin,
Many Tivo users have been able to get HBO GO functioning on their Tivos using a procedure described on this forum. It is working on my Tivo after following the procedure as outlined on this forum. I dont remember the specifics but it involves trying to get it validated via repeated refreshing of your internet browser until your unit gets verified.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

MichaelCoffin said:


> Comcast refuses to recognize Tivo devices for HBO GO, so I pay for that and can't use it either!


As mentioned just above, many Comcast customers have had recent success getting HBOGO authenticated via their TiVo boxes.

See here: The Spite of Comcast: HBO Go


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

MichaelCoffin said:


> How about upgrading Tivo to work with a Roku stick that I can plug into a USB port on the Roamio? That would expand Tivo usability using hardware that Comcast will continue to support going forward. I know I can just plug a Roku into my TV, but I already have my Roamio as the center of all programming - I don't want to have to rewire my audio systems and be switching between Roamio/Roku, and obviously want the minis to have access to the Roku-enabled content over Moca as well.


This approach straight-up won't be happening.

Unless a new Xfinity On Demand for TiVo app is made available you'll need some other device for accessing Comcast's On Demand content, so input switching and add'l wiring it is - unless TiVo delivers on a better than expected app for the Roku platform, when it is currently questionable whether they'll ever deliver one at all.


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

Does Anyone who comes to this Forum regularly Understand that Tivo, Inc and Comcast do not get along? Also do those people think that Tivo, Inc will do anything NORMAL in their software decisions? They don't have a good track record for that in the past (I do love SM & QM, both great mods, among a few others).

Let's just take one Little example. Years ago I complained that the 30-second skip forward button NEVER made an On Demand show skip (not talking about the "free" channels), like it used to on the Ancient On Demand on Comcast's older boxes (don't know about the X1). I had talked to Level 2 (yes, that's how long ago, when there Was a L2) and wanted L3 to find out if it was dropping the remote code on the Tivo side or ignoring it on the Comcast side. Such an easy thing to investigate...NOPE. They could have cared less.

Here's another one...The V4 Android Tivo App, sometimes if you are having problems, when it kicks you out, it makes you put the username/pw in Manually. Never did that in previous versions AND IT IS QUITE ANNOYING, as is when it kicks you out and tells you that you have TOO MANY STREAMS and you have to play with it to get it back. CAN'T BE DONE WHILE DRIVING ALONE. This software has been update several times and THESE THINGS WERE NEVER FIXED.

So there you have a long streaming rant. Why did I open this site today??? LOL

And thanks for that HBOGO link, KRK


----------



## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

When you use Tivo, Comcast can't charge the $10 per month per outlet fees. Seems like the best option is to use a PC and cast to your TV.


----------



## mishafp (Nov 8, 2006)

In my building, we had AT&T-only for a while, so I had to mothball my TIVO for that time. So I was thrilled when I had the xfinity option given to me last month. I had some real headaches (to be put it mildly) getting the cablecard to pair (which ended up being Comcast's fault), but once that was resolved, I'm not missing anything that i had in prior locations, with other service providers that worked with TIVO.

Of the items you listed, some of it does seem a little annoying, but it it really true that there are a meaningful amount of programs that you can't get through other means at a similar or marginal more costs that are on Comcast On Demand/Hitz only (through VUDU, Amazon, etc)? I mean, I know it isn't ideal, but just think if your building only worked with a cable provided that didn't even use cable cards...

And even if there is some one or two things you must watch on Comcast On Demand once in a while, can't you just run an HDMI to your laptop for that program? That's what I end up doing for NFL games on Sunday, since Sunday Ticket is only via laptop. I wouldn't want that to be my usual experience in any way, for one or two programs at week it is really nothing.


----------



## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

My first reaction is 'just use the Xfinity Stream app on your tv". I forget that not everyone has a smart TV. Even a semi smart TV will do the Stream app which includes all the on demand. My Samsung has limited intelligence but works with Comcast. I'm sure most Vizio and LG and if course any Roku tv will do it.


----------



## heyted (Mar 4, 2012)

MichaelCoffin said:


> They don't seem to be making any changes that would negatively impact Roku users...





Comcast at https://www.xfinity.com/support/articles/xfinity-stream-beta-app-faqs said:


> ...during the beta trial, we're waiving the "additional outlet" service charge if you use the Stream app on a Partner Device. Pricing may change in the future.


I wonder how many people catch the additional outlet fee for each device when they purchase a Roku device just to use Xfinity Stream app. There are many sources on the web indicating that purchasing multiple Roku devices instead of a cablecard device is a better choice for cord shavers who want to save money. As shwru indicated above, the FCC requires a single cablecard to be multistream (works with multiple devices) without any additional outlet fees.


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

shwru980r said:


> When you use Tivo, Comcast can't charge the $10 per month per outlet fees.


I think they've finally abandoned that in their latest price restructuring.


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

KevTech said:


> That is up to Comcast as they provide the app.


Way oversimplification of the IPTV issue as a whole. Tivo is equally to blame here.


----------



## MichaelCoffin (Nov 28, 2014)

krkaufman said:


> As mentioned just above, many Comcast customers have had recent success getting HBOGO authenticated via their TiVo boxes.
> 
> See here: The Spite of Comcast: HBO Go


This worked! Thanks so much, I enabled it on my Roamio and one first generation mini using IOS and Safari on my iPhone.


----------



## MichaelCoffin (Nov 28, 2014)

mattyro7878 said:


> My first reaction is 'just use the Xfinity Stream app on your tv". I forget that not everyone has a smart TV. Even a semi smart TV will do the Stream app which includes all the on demand. My Samsung has limited intelligence but works with Comcast. I'm sure most Vizio and LG and if course any Roku tv will do it.


Unfortunately the "main" TV in my living room isn't a smart TV, I didn't think I needed a smart TV because I had this fancy all-in-one Roamio that did streaming......

The TVs in guest bedrooms on Tivo minis are smart, I'll try it on one of those.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

mattyro7878 said:


> My first reaction is 'just use the Xfinity Stream app on your tv". I forget that not everyone has a smart TV. Even a semi smart TV will do the Stream app which includes all the on demand. My Samsung has limited intelligence but works with Comcast. I'm sure most Vizio and LG and if course any Roku tv will do it.


it's also a matter of how old your tv is too. I have one Samsung smart TV that is brand new and has the XoD app and and another that's 2 years old but doesn't have the XoD app and will never get it because it's too old.


----------



## MichaelCoffin (Nov 28, 2014)

I just learned today that Comcast will also be yanking Starz from the Digital Premiere package (but they'll still carry it, for $12 more per month!) and all of the Music channels are going away (perhaps replaced with some kind of radio station streaming service). This is really getting ridiculous!


----------



## kokishin (Sep 9, 2014)

What does a one year or two year contract with Comcast mean?

Just about nothing. 

What a scam!


----------



## mntvjunkie (May 13, 2009)

Tivo has stated that a large part of their business model is to sue Comcast to get it to remove functionality of the X1 platform, or pay extortion fees for the rights to use patents. Perfectly within the rights of Tivo to do this, but they can't expect Comcast to be willing to make their customers happy with functionality when Tivo is simultaneously REDUCING the functionality of the first party hardware.

Tivo could choose instead to put customers first and come to a mutually beneficial agreement for all parties, but that is not Tivo's business model as they make far more by licensing patents than a consumer Tivo box will bring in. Result? Comcast customers (Tivo or X1) suffer. Until Tivo is willing to stop the lawsuits, I would expect Comcast to continue to not have a desire to work with Tivo. And if Tivo is not careful, Comcast could speed up adoption of IPTV and render Tivo's COMPLETELY useless on the Comcast network.


----------



## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

MichaelCoffin said:


> I just learned today that Comcast will also be yanking Starz from the Digital Premiere package (but they'll still carry it, for $12 more per month!) and all of the Music channels are going away (perhaps replaced with some kind of radio station streaming service). This is really getting ridiculous!


At least in a big part of their footprint, Comcast has switched to a new set of channel packages that they sell. Digital Premier is not among them. (None of the old packages that start with "Digital" are, except for Digital Starter, but they only sell that to new standalone TV customers now, not to new customers who also take broadband.)

In Comcast's new channel packages, the only way to get premium services like HBO, Showtime, Starz and Cinemax is to add them a la carte to your base package. There's no top-level package like the old Digital Premier that automatically includes them.

I imagine that a lot of folks grandfathered in on the old Digital Premier will be calling in to switch to a new package after first losing Cinemax and soon losing Starz too. They didn't decrease the price after yanking Cinemax (given that they were substituting in Hitz for it, a change no one asked for or wanted). Remains to be seen whether they'll do so after yanking Starz. My guess is not. For customers who don't notice, they'll automatically make more money on. For those who do, they'll prompt them to switch to the new Preferred base package and add on their premiums a la carte.

Not sure what the reason was for pulling Cinemax from Digital Premier (though I suspect it has to do with the forthcoming HBO Max service). As for Starz, well, Comcast said back in August that they're considering dropping that service from their system completely once the current carriage contract lapses at the end of this year. So de-bundling Starz from their packages would look to be a pre-cursor to that. (My guess is that this is just a threat on Comcast's part, though, to try to drive down the rate they pay to distribute Starz under a new contract going forward. Comcast reportedly accounts for about 30% of Starz's US subscriber base; losing them as a distribution partner would be *really* bad for them.)


----------



## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NashGuy said:


> I imagine that a lot of folks grandfathered in on the old Digital Premier will be calling in to switch to a new package after first losing Cinemax and soon losing Starz too. They didn't decrease the price after yanking Cinemax (given that they were substituting in Hitz for it, a change no one asked for or wanted). *Remains to be seen whether they'll do so after yanking Starz.* My guess is not. For customers who don't notice, they'll automatically make more money on. For those who do, they'll prompt them to switch to the new Preferred base package and add on their premiums a la carte.


I have already been informed that the Preferred tier will be getting three new channels in conjunction with the removal of Starz: Epix 2, Epix Hits and Epix Drive-In (as well as Epix On-Demand content).



NashGuy said:


> Not sure what the reason was for pulling Cinemax from Digital Premier (though I suspect it has to do with the forthcoming HBO Max service). As for Starz, well, Comcast said back in August that they're considering dropping that service from their system completely once the current carriage contract lapses at the end of this year. So de-bundling Starz from their packages would look to be a pre-cursor to that. (*My guess is that this is just a threat on Comcast's part, though, to try to drive down the rate they pay to distribute Starz under a new contract going forward. *Comcast reportedly accounts for about 30% of Starz's US subscriber base; losing them as a distribution partner would be *really* bad for them.)


That's my guess as well (or maybe it's just wishful thinking).



MichaelCoffin said:


> I just learned today that Comcast will also be yanking Starz from the Digital Premiere package (but they'll still carry it, for $12 more per month!) and *all of the Music channels are going away (perhaps replaced with some kind of radio station streaming service).* This is really getting ridiculous!


Those Music Choice channels are not going away entirely; they are just moving to the Xfinity Stream app.


----------



## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

chiguy50 said:


> I have already been informed that the Preferred tier will be getting three new channels in conjunction with the removal of Starz: Epix 2, Epix Hits and Epix Drive-In (as well as Epix On-Demand content).


Yeah, I was just coming back here to link to a story I just saw today, saying that Starz will be replaced by Epix in Digital Preferred:

Epix And Comcast Set Expanded Carriage Deal For Xfinity - Deadline

As part of this deal, Epix is going to launch a few new genre-themed library movie channels: ScreenPix; ScreenPix: Action; ScreenPix: Westerns; and ScreenPix: Voices. I suppose the idea is that those new channels will replace the similar Starz Encore channels. If Starz gets completely dropped from Comcast at year-end, Starz Encore will be going with it.

Given that Comcast charges $12 for Starz a la carte but only $6 for Epix, you think they'll reduce the monthly price of Digital Preferred by $6? Heh, me either.


----------



## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

chiguy50 said:


> I have already been informed that the Preferred tier will be getting three new channels in conjunction with the removal of Starz: Epix 2, Epix Hits and Epix Drive-In (as well as Epix On-Demand content).
> 
> That's my guess as well (or maybe it's just wishful thinking).
> 
> Those Music Choice channels are not going away entirely; they are just moving to the Xfinity Stream app.


Looks like Comcast really is moving quickly to IPTV besides leaving less desirable packages for those who wont/cant switch over.


----------



## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mschnebly said:


> Looks like Comcast really is moving quickly to IPTV besides leaving less desirable packages for those who wont/cant switch over.


Yup. Sticks and carrots.

What I'm curious to learn is whether folks on CableCARD are able to switch over from their existing packages (e.g. Digital Preferred, Digital Premier) to one of the new packages that are being sold via IPTV (Basic, Extra, Preferred). Because if Comcast really does plan to drop some of their upper-tier basic cable channels from QAM and make them IPTV-only in the coming months, I wouldn't expect them to allow that. Why let someone take a new channel package if you know that a few months down the road you're going to have to tell them that they must swap out their hardware to continue receiving all of their channels?


----------



## smark (Nov 20, 2002)

NashGuy said:


> Yup. Sticks and carrots.
> 
> What I'm curious to learn is whether folks on CableCARD are able to switch over from their existing packages (e.g. Digital Preferred, Digital Premier) to one of the new packages that are being sold via IPTV (Basic, Extra, Preferred). Because if Comcast really does plan to drop some of their upper-tier basic cable channels from QAM and make them IPTV-only in the coming months, I wouldn't expect them to allow that. Why let someone take a new channel package if you know that a few months down the road you're going to have to tell them that they must swap out their hardware to continue receiving all of their channels?


You can get them with cable cards with the caveat of those items not being available except via an IPTV boxes if it's delivered that way such as a Roku.


----------



## TKnight206 (Oct 20, 2016)

It's one thing to add new channel as IP-only, but it's another thing to move them from QAM to IPTV.

Anyway, is this rumor, or is there an actual article that they're moving Music Choice off of QAM?


----------



## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

TKnight206 said:


> It's one thing to add new channel as IP-only, but it's another thing to move them from QAM to IPTV.
> 
> Anyway, is this rumor, or is there an actual article that they're moving Music Choice off of QAM?


I believe that this is the source from which I first got that news. I can not recall off hand whether I ever saw it confirmed elsewhere.

On a related note (and as I have posted on another thread), my Comcast bulk sales rep told me yesterday that he is being told that Comcast will no longer be offering Starz, even as an add-on premium channel, to their customers as of the end of this year. I do not know whether this is credible or just part of their bargaining ploy with Lionsgate to win concessions. My rep is very reliable but would not have direct access to the decision-makers for this type of policy, so he could be misinformed.


----------



## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

All these channels should remain on the Xfinity Stream app, right?


----------



## gary.buhrmaster (Nov 5, 2015)

chiguy50 said:


> On a related note (and as I have posted on another thread), my Comcast bulk sales rep told me yesterday that he is being told that Comcast will no longer be offering Starz, even as an add-on premium channel, to their customers as of the end of this year.


The Comcast announcement to their customers is here: Starz a la Carte Channel Changes - Xfinity

Another day, another carriage dispute between two large companies.

The rumors (and there are always rumors) is that Lionsgate wanted a significant increase, possibly in order to put Starz on a better trajectory for the (rumored) spin-out (in order to "unlock value"), as it is no secret that Lionsgate stock has not done well.


----------



## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

chiguy50 said:


> I believe that this is the source from which I first got that news. I can not recall off hand whether I ever saw it confirmed elsewhere.


FWIW, I remember reading a different article elsewhere from a more credible source (but can't find it now) that Comcast would drop Music Choice channels and replace them with a music streaming app on X1. Wasn't clear to me whether the app will be from Music Choice or if it's a completely different music provider.

Given that X1 already has Pandora and iHeartRadio, is there a need for something else? I guess the free versions of those app both have ads, though, and Music Choice is always ad-free. Streaming radio services typically want to charge $4-5/mo to remove the ads but that also tends to come with other perks, like unlimited skips, offline playback, etc.


----------



## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

gary.buhrmaster said:


> The Comcast announcement to their customers is here: Starz a la Carte Channel Changes - Xfinity
> 
> Another day, another carriage dispute between two large companies.
> 
> The rumors (and there are always rumors) is that Lionsgate wanted a significant increase, possibly in order to put Starz on a better trajectory for the (rumored) spin-out (in order to "unlock value"), as it is no secret that Lionsgate stock has not done well.


Yeah, but what I am being told (also confirmed today by another Comcast source on the CS side of the house) is that Comcast will drop ALL Starz programming after the end of the year as things stand now. No linear channels at all in the standard line-up, and not even the opportunity for an add-on premium subscription.


----------



## gary.buhrmaster (Nov 5, 2015)

chiguy50 said:


> Yeah, but what I am being told (also confirmed today by another Comcast source on the CS side of the house) is that Comcast will drop ALL Starz programming after the end of the year as things stand now.


That *is* exactly what the Comcast announcement says (if you read it all the way through). No agreement, no Starz at all after Dec 31st (and some interim steps before that).

It is good that your rep is trying to be proactive letting you know you may lose that (Starz) option.


----------



## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

gary.buhrmaster said:


> That *is* exactly what the Comcast announcement says (if you read it all the way through). No agreement, no Starz at all after Dec 31st (and some interim steps before that).


That's not how I was reading it, but now that you point it out to me I see that your interpretation is undoubtedly correct.



gary.buhrmaster said:


> It is good that your rep is trying to be proactive letting you know you may lose that (Starz) option.


Yes, it would have been commendable if my rep had proactively warned me about that, but it fact I was the one who raised the issue.


----------



## KevTech (Apr 15, 2014)

I have all the Starz/encore channels as part of my package and the latest bill says they are being replaced with Epix.


----------



## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

KevTech said:


> I have all the Starz/encore channels as part of my package and the latest bill says they are being replaced with Epix.
> 
> View attachment 44055


This just confirms what I have already reported almost two weeks ago in this thread in post #22 above.


----------



## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

KevTech said:


> I have all the Starz/encore channels as part of my package and the latest bill says they are being replaced with Epix.


A couple of months ago I was researching possibly adding Epix to my Comcast package. I quickly rejected that idea when it turned out about 9 out of 10 of the Epix movies that interested me were already available to me on Prime Video. Of course that excludes Epix' original content.


----------



## Mary Ellard (Nov 2, 2020)

By not allowing TiVO customers to sign up for the S&E pkg (that includes TCM), Xfinity is violating FCC regulations. A cable provider is not allowed to deny service to anyone simply because of a product they own or use. I just filed a complaint with the FCC. To do the same, go to:

FCC Complaints

Once the FCC receives your complaint, they will forward it to Xfninty's Chief FCC Compliance Officer, Matt Domer. He will send you a reply within one business day.

Subsequent to my complaint ("Why can't I even subscribe to the S&E pkg, just because I have TiVO, when I could watch it on the Xfinity app or my computer? That isn't FCC compliant."), Xfinity is changing its coding so that TiVo subscribers can sign up for additional packages. Sadly, not to view through TiVO.

To thank Mr. Domer and to add your name to the list of people he will legally have to notify when this correction is completed, you may email him at [email protected] or write and call him at:
Mr. Matt Doner
Regulatory Compliance Specialist
3 Logan Square, 45th FL, Philadelphia, PA 19103
(267) 260-1556

Better yet, do all of the above.


----------



## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

If only we had an available alternative option (e.g., TiVo supporting IPTV). I'm almost about ready to throw in the towel and get an X1 system or switch to AT&T IPTV.


----------



## alleybj (Dec 6, 2000)

Mary Ellard said:


> By not allowing TiVO customers to sign up for the S&E pkg (that includes TCM), Xfinity is violating FCC regulations. A cable provider is not allowed to deny service to anyone simply because of a product they own or use. I just filed a complaint with the FCC. To do the same, go to:
> 
> FCC Complaints
> 
> ...


I have the S&E package and TCM. Are you saying Comcast is migrating it to ip only?


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Yeah, I don't understand that post at all - S&E plans are still available with cards.

But everything in Comcast is regional.


----------



## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

alleybj said:


> I have the S&E package and TCM. Are you saying Comcast is migrating it to ip only?





slowbiscuit said:


> Yeah, I don't understand that post at all - S&E plans are still available with cards.
> 
> But everything in Comcast is regional.


If I read OP's comments correctly, she seems to be saying that on her area's Simple & Easy (S&E) system, the More Sports & Entertainment pack (MS&E) is IP only. (There is some confusion inherent in OP's use of S&E in reference to MS&E .)

Or, at least, that is what she was apparently being told by Comcast CSR's (who claimed that they could not even add the MS&E pack to her account unless she had X1 equipment). Either the CSR's were wrong or the coding in that area needed to be corrected to allow the customer the option to pay for MS&E without a STB IP viewing capability.


----------



## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

chiguy50 said:


> If I read OP's comments correctly, she seems to be saying that on her area's Simple & Easy (S&E) system, the More Sports & Entertainment pack (MS&E) is IP only. (There is some confusion inherent in OP's use of S&E in reference to MS&E .)


Given the regional differences, there is no way to be sure about anything in the general sense, but it has been repeatedly reported that in some areas MS&E uses IPTV for some number (although rarely all) of the channels in that package.


> Or, at least, that is what she was apparently being told by Comcast CSR's (who claimed that they could not even add the MS&E pack to her account unless she had X1 equipment). Either the CSR's were wrong or the coding in that area needed to be corrected to allow the customer the option to pay for MS&E without a STB IP viewing capability.


AFAIK there is no way for a customer to agree that "Yes, I know I will not get some/many/most of the channels in this package without a X1 STB (or streaming via the Xfinity app), and I am 100% OK with that today, and 100% OK with more channels moving that way in the future". This is only going to get more confusing for people trying to hang on to their OCUR/UDCP devices as more and more channels move to IPTV only, and are not "in the know" (those that understand what is going on, and while they probably don't like it, at least know what they are getting into).


----------



## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

CommunityMember said:


> Given the regional differences, there is no way to be sure about anything in the general sense, but it has been repeatedly reported that in some areas MS&E uses IPTV for some number (although rarely all) of the channels in that package.


Yes, transition of individual (so far mostly "off-brand" or special interest channels) to IP has been a gradual, on-going process thus far. I believe that we can, in fact, be confident that this trend will continue in virtually all regions and will only speed up at some point as the full-bore switch over from QAM approaches. The only question is the actual time line, which could be quite long.

But I would be surprised to learn that the entire MS&E pack had been converted to IP in any Comcast region to date. Thus, I can see no reason why the Comcast account coding should preclude any customer from adding this pack to a qualified CATV subscription package regardless of the absence of X1 CPE.



CommunityMember said:


> *AFAIK there is no way for a customer to agree that "Yes, I know I will not get some/many/most of the channels in this package without a X1 STB (or streaming via the Xfinity app), and I am 100% OK with that today, and 100% OK with more channels moving that way in the future".* This is only going to get more confusing for people trying to hang on to their OCUR/UDCP devices as more and more channels move to IPTV only, and are not "in the know" (those that understand what is going on, and while they probably don't like it, at least know what they are getting into).


In principal, every customer has agreed de facto by virtue of the Comcast TOS. Here is the bit that touches on programming changes:

_Subject to applicable law, we have the right to change our Service(s), Xfinity Equipment, rates and charges, at any time with or without notice to you. We also may rearrange, delete, add to, or otherwise change programming or features or offerings contained in the Service(s), including, but not limited to, content, functionality, hours of availability, equipment requirements, speed, and upstream and downstream rate limitations._

COMCAST AGREEMENT FOR RESIDENTIAL   SERVICES


----------



## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

chiguy50 said:


> But I would be surprised to learn that the entire MS&E pack had been converted to IP in any Comcast region to date.


All, certainly not. But in at least some markets all the team specific channels have moved to IPTV, so if you want to watch your favorite team all the time (well, if they were playing at all), you would need to have a IPTV capable box or use the streaming apps. There are still some of the MS&E channels on linear QAM, of course, but even some of those are region specific (what I recall reading is that the Pac12 is linear QAM in the markets where the Pac12 teams are located, and often IPTV in the out of market locations).


> In principal, every customer has agreed de facto by virtue of the Comcast TOS.


Sure, but if a salesperson sells you something you can't use, and they have been told you mostly can't use it, what do you think is going to be the reaction from most people when they find out they can't use it? Do you believe they will read the ToS and remain calm and collected and understand?


----------



## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

I should have MLB network in my package. I do not. I must go to the Xfinity Stream app to see that and at least 7 other channels that my cablecards do not supply. You know if I called for an explanation the call would be circular. "I'm paying for it I should get it" . "I'm sorry sir, you are getting it...through the app or I can send you an X1". I have had repssay to me "I see no equipment on this account". Then I explain what a cablecard is and does.


----------



## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

mattyro7878 said:


> I should have MLB network in my package. I do not.


Technically it *is* in your package, you just can't view it on the equipment you choose to use. And no amount of "It is in the ToS" is likely to make you feel any better about that (it sure wouldn't to me).

I do not watch, nor subscribe to any additional, sports, so I can't personally feel your pain, but for those who do, and feel they must, it is hard to argue that CableCARDs are still going to be a viable path forward on Comcast for the general case (some specific individuals might still get what they care about). Plan accordingly (whether that is getting a X1 box, or using streaming apps, or moving to a OTT that offers the sports you want, or planning to spend a lot more time in the Sports Bar down the road).


----------



## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

As long as I have the YES network, MLB is not necessary. I do enjoy it and can use the stream app if need be. If they ever took our regional sports I would be forced to get one of thier boxes.


----------



## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

CommunityMember said:


> Sure, but if a salesperson sells you something you can't use, and they have been told you mostly can't use it, what do you think is going to be the reaction from most people when they find out they can't use it? Do you believe they will read the ToS and remain calm and collected and understand?


Oh, no, I harbor no illusions regarding the amount of due diligence conducted by the average Comcast customer, nor do I expect a rational reaction to any changes in service. I would expect a certain amount of outrage (not all of it misplaced), but in a capitalist society the consumer needs to be aware of the full ramifications of any commercial transaction if he wants to avoid disappointment or, perish the thought, exploitation at the hands of any unscrupulous provider. _Caveat emptor_ applies.

As an illustration, we have 335 members in our HOA under a bulk-services contract for Comcast CATV. Roughly 75% of them also receive HSI and other services from Comcast on their residential accounts. But the vast majority (in fact, almost every one without exception) of the dozens whom I have queried over the years have no clue what equipment they are using, what tier of HSI they have, or how much they are paying. Needless to say, many of them are overpaying since they are fruit ripe for the picking.


----------



## jeffsinsfo (Oct 16, 2005)

I reverted back to a Premiere from a Roamio this morning due to problems with the latter. After pairing the cable card, the Comcast employee offered to send me a channel listing. I didn't think I really needed it, but I said, "Sure, send it to me." I already knew that Comcast had moved Turner Classic Movies to a premium package, but I didn't realize how many channels have changed from QAM to IPTV until I looked at what was previously checked in my channels setting on the Premiere that were not on the list sent by the Comcast rep. Sure enough, I looked back at my billing statements over the past several months and see that almost every month there has been fine print indicating that one more more channels have been moved to IPTV, requiring the use of an Xfinity box to see them. I didn't see one about the Cooking channel, which was working on my Roamio until just a few days ago, but I see it's not on the channel list sent to me. But it's really a range of channels that have been moved in my area (San Francisco) - yes, nothing major but certainly stuff I can imagine a lot of households watch (various Nickolodeon channels, some Black-focused programming channels, etc). Of course they didn't move the shopping channels to IPTV, and for some strange reason they are still devoting two frequencies right next to each other to MeTV. They also have duplicate channels for many of the HD channels, the first beginning in the 700-range and then the second group beginning in the 1000-range, something that started a number of years ago.

I'll admit that I'm guilty of typically ignoring my bill, with paperless billing and autopay set up. I guess I'm going to have to start looking at my bills so at least I will know which channels are being taken away from me since I refuse to pay Comast extra to use one of their boxes.


----------



## celtic pride (Nov 8, 2005)

comcast just signed a new 15 year patent agreement with tivo today nov. 9 2020, so how does this affect thins going forward ?


----------



## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

celtic pride said:


> comcast just signed a new 15 year patent agreement with tivo today nov. 9 2020, so how does this affect thins going forward ?


I have a feeling TiVo is about to get the ability to get IPTV. I emailed Xpera's CEO recently and received a reply that they are investigating options and will "introduce products that align to the market changes." Although very generic, it at least gives me some hope since I wasn't told they have no options available.

Only time will tell.


----------



## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

celtic pride said:


> comcast just signed a new 15 year patent agreement with tivo today nov. 9 2020, so how does this affect thins going forward ?


It means that both sides will declare victory, and we will never know the important details. But it does end the revenue stream for a number of large law firms who were arguing their clients positions in the courts over many years.


----------



## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

Does a qam/ip box exist anywhere out there?


----------



## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

mattyro7878 said:


> Does a qam/ip box exist anywhere out there?


I am not exactly sure what you are asking.

Are you talking about the X1 (branded) boxes that can do both linear QAM and IPTV(*)? Or are you talking about the the MSO specific boxes that TiVo sells to the cable companies that can do both linear QAM and (provider specific) IPTV? Or are you talking commercial transcoders that can take in (almost) any format and output (almost) any format?

All those things exist (and a lot more).

(*) FWIW, other cable companies have equivalent STBs, but this is a TiVo/Comcast targeted thread. Charter calls their STB the Worldbox. Cox, calls their rebranded RDK STB boxes Contour.


----------



## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

You answered my question. I assumed people with an X1 box were basically getting all thier channels from ip...a la UVERSE and others. If the X1 is doing QAM and IP can Tivo create a device like that? Too provider specific??


----------



## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

mattyro7878 said:


> If the X1 is doing QAM and IP can Tivo create a device like that? Too provider specific??


They could, and they do, for their MSO cable companies (those that use a branded TiVo box for their own subscribers). But it is very provider specific (as it all ties into the providers various systems). There is no generic IPTV solution (just as there is no single IPTV player for Netflix, or Amazon Prime, or Disney+, etc.).


----------



## dgoto (Apr 29, 2010)

With Tivo Comcast settlement, Does anyone expect Comcast to finally provide TIVO users on demand and peacock apps?


----------



## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

dgoto said:


> With Tivo Comcast settlement, Does anyone expect Comcast to finally provide TIVO users on demand and peacock apps?


No. There are not enough users for it to be worthwhile on TiVo boxes.


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

But but but... Tivo_Ted said they were working on it!

And then he left.


----------



## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

Right now if I need to access IP-only channels, I go to the Live section of the Comcast OnDemand app on my LG SmartTV (as opposed to the on-demand library of shows that have been on earlier) and use it as my set-top box. No TiVo trick-play (pause, etc), no fancy X1 voice commands, but it gives me access to all the channels in my plan.


----------



## ITGrouch (Jan 7, 2015)

I had some channels that were in the program guide on my two TiVos, but I couldn't tune them. I had no clue that Comcast had moved them to IPTV back in the early part of 2019 because I lived in a different town then and Charter was the provider. Last week, I contacted @ComcastCares via DM on Twitter and they escalated the issue to tier 2 support. I received a phone call from tier 2 to inform me that the channels I inquired about were moved to IPTV in early 2019. I asked the rep if he could email me a list of the current IPTV channels, and he did so. With the list provided, I found that some, not all, of the channels on the list were still available on the TiVos in my Middle Tennessee market. I have a XG2 box and we use it to view the IPTV channels, as well as using the Xfinity Stream app on our Roku units and via stream on the Xfinity web site.

Below is the list of IPTV channels he emailed to me and like me, some listed may not have been moved to IPTV yet in your market.

Afro HD
Aspire TV HD
Band International HD
BET HER HD
BBC World News HD
Black News Channel HD
C-SPAN HD
CLEO HD
Comedy.TV HD
Cooking Channel HD
CTC
Discovery Family HD
DIY Network HD
FOX Sports 2 HD
FOX Deportes HD
Galavisión HD
Hallmark Drama SD and HD
i24NEWS HD
Jewelry TV HD
JusticeCentral.TV HD
MTV2 HD
NDTV 24x7
Newsmax TV HD
Nick 2 HD
Nick Jr. HD
Nick Toons HD
NTV America
Ovation HD
Pac-12 National HD
Pac-12 Regional HD
POP TV HD
QVC2 HD and SD
QVC3 HD and SD
Rai Italia HD
Recipe.TV HD
Revolt HD
RTR-Planeta
Rossiya 24
SEC Overflow HD
Smithsonian HD
Sundance HD and SD
Teen Nick HD
The Filipino Channel (TFC)
TUDN HD
TV Asia HD
TV JAPAN HD
TV5MONDE HD
Universo HD (formerly NBC Universo) (E&W)
Univision HD
UniMás HD
WGN America HD
Willow TV HD
Zee TV HD
Z Living HD
Zona Fútbol HD and SD


----------

