# Is HBO Going Downhill?



## pomerlp (Apr 22, 2008)

I know the writers strike has affected many of the shows we watch. But I just went to the Futon Critic and I realized that there are only 2 shows on HBO for sure returning that I watch. Big Love, not until 2009 and Entourage. Curb Your Enthusiasm is listed as "Fate to be determined."

I had Showtime for a while a few years back but HBO just kicked it's butt. Has the tide turned? Anything good on Showtime? 

I'm not really interested in movies and when I do look at what HBO offers it seems like it's always something from 20th Century Fox which I think owns HBO or is in the same company.

Any thoughts, suggestions?


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Showtime has what Weeds and Dexter? Both AWESOME shows!

HBO has what, entourage? that's about it for good shows now.

yup showtime for the win  but I have none now, not worth the $$


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## anom (Apr 18, 2005)

Of course it is. It has been for a few years. There are still some good shows, but the glory days are gone, at least for now.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Showtime has The Tudors, Californication, and a show premiering soon... (Diary of a High Class Call Girl or some such...)

Along with Weeds, and more.

HBO has nothing of value for me until Entourage comes back. I'd love to see more Curb too, but I suspect it's done.


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

These things go in cycles. Right now, Showtime pwns HBO.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

Yea, HBO got rid of too many good shows with not enough to replace them. Rome, Deadwood, The Sopranos, Sex in the City, etc. replaced by John from Cincinnatti, Tell Me You Love Me, In Treatment, etc.

Showtime has The Tudors, Brotherhood, Weeds, Dexter, (had) Sleeper Cell & Dead Like Me, Californication, BullSh*t, etc.


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

No one mentions Real Time with Bill Maher?

But as far as series goes, Showtime currently has HBO beat.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

John from Cinci was AWESOME, but I knew it wouldn't get renewed


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

I prefer HBO's boxing over Showtime's.


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## scurby2 (Feb 6, 2008)

i called Time Warner in So California and they are offered me free hbo for 3 months................gotta love Cat house


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

HBO will have _True Blood_ in the fall (OK, maybe early next year).

Showtime's _Diary of a Secret Call Girl_ (starring Billie Piper!) debuts on 18 June.


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

I've been an HBO subscriber for at least the last 15 years. I finally canceled about 3 months ago. So yea, I would say it's gone downhill if not completely over the cliff.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

MikeMar said:


> John from Cinci was AWESOME, but I knew it wouldn't get renewed


Was there satisfactory closure on this series? I mean, did it tell a complete story? I'm thinking of renting it.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Peter000 said:


> Was there satisfactory closure on this series? I mean, did it tell a complete story? I'm thinking of renting it.


Not at all, don't bother


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Showtime also had the L Word.

I do think HBO has been on the decline... 
- but I did enjoy the John Adams mini-series.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

HBO has reruns of the WIRE and Generation Kill is still coming up so it trumps Showtime though I do love me some Dexter.


Frank


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

I still miss Rome. Two seasons was not enough for me.

I pulled the plug last September. I may come back when _The Pacific_ finally airs- but I doubt it.


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

"going"?


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

HBO also has a 7 episode miniseries this July about Marines fighting over in Iraq.
Generation Kill

There's also "The Pacific" from Spielberg and Tom Hanks. A 10-part Band of Brothers like miniseries about WW2's Pacific theatre. I believe that's 2009, too, though.

Other than that, not too much interesting for me. A bummer that Big Love is being held back to much later this year if not next year. I had read some time ago that it supposedly wasn't impacted much by the strike as a high number of scripts were already finished prior to it going into production back in November.

I'd have been willing to pay a whole separate subscription fee just for "Rome". That show went out at at the top of its game.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Peter000 said:


> Was there satisfactory closure on this series? I mean, did it tell a complete story? I'm thinking of renting it.





cherry ghost said:


> Not at all, don't bother


I would rent it if you like really odd shows.

Even as 1 season I liked it, and there is a lot to read into it.

On the surface it's not a great show, but when you analyst it and think about it, very good show.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

I canceled HBO when they couldn't get Deadwood renewed. Showtime has several good shows, most have been mentioned. I want to add Tracey Ullman's State of the Union - was quite entertaining.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

IIRC, HBO will be carrying the Song of Ice and Fire adaption. I don't know where that is in the production cycle or if it is evening happening. That should drive some subscriptions to HBO.


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## Odds Bodkins (Jun 7, 2006)

I canceled HBO but will renew when Generation Kill comes on. I can't believe the love for Entourage still... that show has stunk for two seasons now. But, like the Sopranos, I guess most want to make sure they stick it out in hopes it gets good again... like me. Curb is awesome but a long way from returning.

Dexter is the best cable show there is... ergo, Showtime wins.



Sirius Black said:


> IIRC, HBO will be carrying the Song of Ice and Fire adaption. I don't know where that is in the production cycle or if it is evening happening. That should drive some subscriptions to HBO.


Last I heard, they had the first season written. That's all.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

MikeMar said:


> John from Cinci was AWESOME, but I knew it wouldn't get renewed


Boiiiinnnnngggg!!!! That was the sound of my mind being boggled.  I thought John From Cincinatti was the worst show I ever watched. The strange thing is that I watched every episode hoping it'd get better and less confusing.


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## jones07 (Jan 30, 2001)

Amnesia said:


> Showtime's _Diary of a Secret Call Girl_ (starring Billie Piper!) debuts on 18 June.


Diary of a Secret Call Girl kept me coming back for more.
I saw it last year on Starchoice, Billie Piper has grown up to be a real Hottie.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> Boiiiinnnnngggg!!!! That was the sound of my mind being boggled.  I thought John From Cincinatti was the worst show I ever watched. The strange thing is that I watched every episode hoping it'd get better and less confusing.


Did you follow the religious part of it? (as in the whole thing)

-I'm not very religious at all so I probably missed a lot though.


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## GadgetFreak (Jun 3, 2002)

Yes. Even the movies suck. Now that a lot of shows are winding up, I scanned the HBOHD listings for the next two weeks and was surprised how little I found that interested me. And I don't rent movies very often, so it is not because I had seen everything.


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## Tivortex (Feb 29, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> Boiiiinnnnngggg!!!! That was the sound of my mind being boggled.  I thought John From Cincinatti was the worst show I ever watched. The strange thing is that I watched every episode hoping it'd get better and less confusing.


You either loved that one or hated it. It got a lot of hate because it replaced the beloved Deadwood.

I've still got all the episodes on my TiVo and watch them on occasion. It's a very dense, information rich program. It used a LOT of allegory, which is not a common form today and requires some actual real life thinking, which of course doomed it on American TV. I think Milch took a huge risk with it, and it didn't pay off.


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## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

HBO started going down hill YEARS ago IMO.


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## net114 (Dec 29, 2000)

I may come back to HBO eventually, but their cancellation of Rome and Deadwood without giving a #$%^ about ending the series with at least some kind of conclusion (thus thanking the viewers who made the network happen) brought about my decision to cancel, cancel, cancel them. 

i won't say I get everything i need now from downloading, but I get everything I need now from downloading. (You can feel free to surmise from what sources).


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## nirisahn (Nov 19, 2005)

Going? It's been crap for years. The good stuff is very little and very far between.


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## jimmymac (Nov 6, 2002)

I left after Six Feet Under ended. That and Sex and the City were my favorites.

I like Bill Maher, but not enough to subscribe. If they do come up with something decent is easier and cheaper to just rent the DVDs when it comes out.


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## pomerlp (Apr 22, 2008)

net114 said:


> I may come back to HBO eventually, but their cancellation of Rome and Deadwood without giving a #$%^ about ending the series with at least some kind of conclusion (thus thanking the viewers who made the network happen) brought about my decision to cancel, cancel, cancel them.
> 
> i won't say I get everything i need now from downloading, but I get everything I need now from downloading. (You can feel free to surmise from what sources).


Thanks for the opinions, and this one here I think is a big one. Why in the world did they cancel Deadwood? Rome was also a great show.

John From Cincinnati I watched just hoping something would start to get interesting. It never did.

One thing about downloading: you can't do that in HD, at least I don't know anybody who can. I know Weeds is suppose to be good maybe I can catch it from the start when they do the repeats. What about movies, better then HBO?


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

pomerlp said:


> Why in the world did they cancel Deadwood? _(...)_


I don't think it was HBO's decision---it was David Milch's. He wanted to make _John from Cincinnati_ instead.


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## pomerlp (Apr 22, 2008)

Amnesia said:


> I don't think it was HBO's decision---it was David Milch's. He wanted to make _John from Cincinnati_ instead.


Wow, talk about a bad decision! Perhaps he felt Deadwood would not keep up to the quality it was but he pulled the plug on that way too early.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

It sounded to me that he got bored with Deadwood and wanted to do something different. As such, it couldn't possibly be a bad decision.


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## pomerlp (Apr 22, 2008)

bicker said:


> It sounded to me that he got bored with Deadwood and wanted to do something different. As such, it couldn't possibly be a bad decision.


I just made the switch to Showtime. I might go back to HBO when Big Love rolls around, but I can't see keeping it for a 7 show mini series about a war I personally have problems with and some new "possible" offerings.

HBO put out a show last year I believe that was nothing short of pornography IMHO. Now I really have nothing against porn, to each his own but I felt that really crosssed the line. Did they cancel that?


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

pomerlp said:


> HBO put out a show last year I believe that was nothing short of pornography IMHO. Now I really have nothing against porn, to each his own but I felt that really crosssed the line. Did they cancel that?


Sorry, but the L Word is actually on Showtime.



Oh! You mean Tell Me You Love Me. It has been renewed.

Not pornography, really. Just very explicit.


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## pomerlp (Apr 22, 2008)

bicker said:


> Sorry, but the L Word is actually on Showtime.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That, my friend is really a matter of opinion. I felt it cross the line from very explicit to porno. But then again that's my line. Your line is obviously different.

And please don't get me wrong, I like a lttle t&a. I just found it so distracting I really couldn't concentrate on the show itself. Then there is my wife who draws the line even lower then I do.

I didn't make it through the first showing and that really was because I could feel the vibes coming from my wife who sat there with a look on her face like, "you're kidding me. we're going to be watching this all the time?"

She also had that look with Entourage but she eventually came around on that. My gut told me no way on that show.

And I'm sorry, what is "L"? I'll record it on my other TiVo where she won't see it if necessary.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Yeah, my wife isn't really any more disturbed by Tell Me You Love Me than I am. It seemed to start out a little vacuous (which would make it gratuitous) but about midway through the first episode it became clear that there was a little more substance there (similar to The L Word, in that way). 

The L Word, by the way is going into its sixth season on Showtime. According to Wikipedia, it, "portrays the lives of a group of lesbian and bisexual women and their friends, family and lovers in the trendy Los Angeles-area city of West Hollywood." Again, if you're looking for some t&a, you'll get some, but there is quite a bit there under that veneer. It's a real drama with real characters, etc. (as I hope Tell Me You Love Me turns out to be).


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

bicker said:


> The L Word, by the way is going into its sixth episode on Showtime.


Sixth _season_, I know you meant.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I'm looking forward to Recount.


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## ncsercs (May 5, 2001)

jimmymac said:


> I left after Six Feet Under ended. That and Sex and the City were my favorites.
> 
> I like Bill Maher, but not enough to subscribe. If they do come up with something decent is easier and cheaper to just rent the DVDs when it comes out.


I just download the torrents after several days. Saves $12 a month.


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## net114 (Dec 29, 2000)

Ok, let's clear up some confusion on the cancellation of Rome and Deadwood. From news sources I have read, the best explanation of the cancellation was strictly money. Both shows had decent ratings. 

The head of HBO decided that XXX millions of dollars for Rome and Deadwood was not bringing in XX percentage increase in subscribers. HBO was making a profit, but with the Sopranos flagship gone, it became an accounting issue. However, a new show, with lesser stars, costs a lot less to produce. They had everyone on contract to come back, then let them go and it was gone for good. Many of the actors were shocked. Also notice how John in Cinci was a more modern surroundings..i.e., not a period piece, and a lot cheaper to produce. (That's just my guess- but I remember writers from various Star Trek series talking about how they would run out of money at a certain point in the season and have 5 episodes in a cave or something). 

Look, if it was MY money, (I was literally writing a check for a show in my privately owned studio), would I want to write another XX million dollar check just to "satisfy" fans with a nice conclusion? Tough call. However, there are a LOT of other considerations, like producing a two hour end episode strictly to help DVD sales later, etc. or a two hour concluding movie for DVD/Blu Ray sales while I still had sets/actors/crew in place. 

I don't know, it all seems to fit into the bad stereotype that the studio "suits" get put on them in stories we hear by Kevin Smith and other writer/directors. 

HBO has the ability to put together some great television, in this case they just said "too bad" to all the fans of these highly rated shows. I find it hard to believe that the network would have gone under if they had produced ONE final episode for each of these series to conclude them a little better. 

It is probably more complicated than all that - but I'm still mad at ABC for cancelling Greatest American Hero in the early 1980s, and it just kills me when I'm a paying subscriber but don't really feel like I'm treated like one.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Rather than "clear" anything up, I think you've simply repeated some fanspeak.


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

net114 said:


> HBO has the ability to put together some great television, in this case they just said *"too bad" *to all the fans of these highly rated shows.


I said exactly the same thing when I canceled HBO, *too bad*. Unfortunately, HBO is going to find it's much harder to get a customer than it is to lose one.


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## pomerlp (Apr 22, 2008)

net114 said:


> The head of HBO decided that XXX millions of dollars for Rome and Deadwood was not bringing in XX percentage increase in subscribers. HBO was making a profit, but with the Sopranos flagship gone, it became an accounting issue. However, a new show, with lesser stars, costs a lot less to produce. They had everyone on contract to come back, then let them go and it was gone for good. Many of the actors were shocked. Also notice how John in Cinci was a more modern surroundings..i.e., not a period piece, and a lot cheaper to produce. (That's just my guess- but I remember writers from various Star Trek series talking about how they would run out of money at a certain point in the season and have 5 episodes in a cave or something).


Point taken but on the other hand we pay money for HBO. So we expect superior new shows. So perhaps that's what put Rome and Deadwood on the chopping block but they lost me as a subscriber.

Now let's take a look at FX. In my book here is a network that produces shows that are very close to the quality of HBO's older shows. Rescue Me, The Shield, Dirt, Nip/Tuck and The Riches are darn close to the quality of what HBO use to put out. And no subscription fee, Just commercials.

Also kudos for TNT's The Closer and SCI-FI's EUREKA.

Some may also say USA'S 4400 deserves elite status and maybe even some would give a knod to PSYCHE! I watch them but they don't grab me the way the others do, specially PSYCHE.

IMHO HBO should be putting out shows at least of the quality of some of these shows, specially since it's something I'm paying money for.

Just my opinion of course and I imagine some may disagree with a couple of the shows I listed.

Edit to add: The fact the the TW/AOL merger flop may also be adding to the problems that HBO may have encountered on delivering shows like Rome and Deadwood. Still, that's their issue and cutting shows like this isn't good for customer retention.


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## net114 (Dec 29, 2000)

bicker said:


> Rather than "clear" anything up, I think you've simply repeated some fanspeak.


Well, according to Milch himself, he said, "How &%$#@! is it that we're not coming back?"

And..."Milch also confirms that it was HBO that decided not to pick up the options on the cast, which freed the actors to go look for other work."

So, its not "fanspeak" that it wasn't Milch's decision. (Unless he was lying to avoid a fan backlash or something). No, it doesn't say specifically WHY HBO made the decision, but I read tons and tons of articles about it that I'm just too lazy to go and link too.

That said, I could have used a slightly less "I know the facts" tone in my post. How about, "Ok, let me clear up what I've read on news sites in the past about how HBO screwed its fans?!"


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## net114 (Dec 29, 2000)

pomerlp said:


> Now let's take a look at FX. In my book here is a network that produces shows that are very close to the quality of HBO's older shows. Rescue Me, The Shield, Dirt, Nip/Tuck and The Riches are darn close to the quality of what HBO use to put out. And no subscription fee, Just commercials.


Yes I totally agree with you, my total guess is that is the difference. If HBO weren't a subscriber channel, they could have upped the charge to advertisers saying, "we're at this rating for Deadwood, which means we are in XXX millions of viewers each week, so pay us more."

Is there any way for HBO to account for new subscribers based on one show? I don't know other than maybe an unscientific CSR question poll or something, which I've never heard of.

Either way, it looks like at least one of the main cast was all for it going on, and didn't have a clue they were going to cancel before it happened. (Nor did he like the way it was handled). It's a shame.

Back to the main thread's title, this is again just another reason I can't justify paying for HBO. It doesn't seem like there was time nor effort to even figure out any other options for a finale (as evidenced by the actor's shock over the cancellation.) In addition to in house production, couldn't they have explored letting another sister studio or even selling the rights to a 2 hour movie or something to another commercial cable channel?

I think the main point is- the silence from HBO is a slap in the face to fans. Do they HAVE to explain? No. But not explaining to your subscribers simply makes them feel like you don't care about their subscriptions.


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## pomerlp (Apr 22, 2008)

net114 said:


> Is there any way for HBO to account for new subscribers based on one show? I don't know other than maybe an unscientific CSR question poll or something, which I've never heard of.


Well, just from what I read in this thread they appear to be losing subscribers. One person was a 15 year subscriber and he left. I've been subscribing for at least 10 years.



net114 said:


> I think the main point is- the silence from HBO is a slap in the face to fans. Do they HAVE to explain? No. But not explaining to your subscribers simply makes them feel like you don't care about their subscriptions.


Yes, this is the kind of crap that FOX does. Oh and isn't FOX owned by Time Warner, HBO, Rupert Murdock?

I think I see a pattern here.

And now think about this: FX is owned by FOX. Is this crazy or what?


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

net114 said:


> I think the main point is- the silence from HBO is a slap in the face to fans. Do they HAVE to explain? No. But not explaining to your subscribers simply makes them feel like you don't care about their subscriptions.


That is unfortunately not the case. When faced with questions that you know you can only provide answers that will dissatisfy, it is an unfortunate and frustrating reality that it is almost always best to say nothing, or to answer a different question. That's the nature of interacting with consumers (who generally react _negatively_ to honest, accurate information _that they don't like to hear_): If you have nothing good to say, say nothing at all.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

net114 said:


> Well, according to Milch himself, he said, "How &%$#@! is it that we're not coming back?"
> 
> And..."Milch also confirms that it was HBO that decided not to pick up the options on the cast, which freed the actors to go look for other work."
> 
> So, its not "fanspeak" that it wasn't Milch's decision. (Unless he was lying to avoid a fan backlash or something). No, it doesn't say specifically WHY HBO made the decision, but I read tons and tons of articles about it that I'm just too lazy to go and link too.


This article tries to clear up the 'why'... Deadwood: An Update on the Reasons Why

_"Milch is working on a new series for HBO (John from Cincinnati) and, due to that commitment, HBO didnt believe that he would be able to return to Deadwood for quite awhile, delaying the possible start of a Deadwood season four. Deadwood is an expensive show to shoot and its assumed that the cable channel didnt want to (or couldnt afford to) pay the actor salaries for months while they waited for production to begin."_


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## pomerlp (Apr 22, 2008)

Jeeters said:


> This article tries to clear up the 'why'... Deadwood: An Update on the Reasons Why
> 
> _"Milch is working on a new series for HBO (John from Cincinnati) and, due to that commitment, HBO didnt believe that he would be able to return to Deadwood for quite awhile, delaying the possible start of a Deadwood season four. Deadwood is an expensive show to shoot and its assumed that the cable channel didnt want to (or couldnt afford to) pay the actor salaries for months while they waited for production to begin."_


Wow, what kind of contract do these actors get? The Sopranos go two years between seasons and they got paid for it? I know nothing about Hollywood but that just seems stupid to me. Big Love isn't returning until 2009 and you know those kids are going to be much older looking. Are they getting paid? The Shield, Rescue Me are others. Are they getting paid?

That just seems like bad business and I'm just applying common sense here. I often wondered why a baseball team would give a 32 year old pitcher a 7 year contract (lefties excepted) but this seems even more ridiculous.

Regardless of whose decision it was and making another sports analogy trading in Deadwood for John from Cincinnati was simply a bad trade. I do recall Deadwood took me a couple of episodes to put it together but John from Cincinnati was going no place with any explanation.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

pomerlp said:


> Well, just from what I read in this thread they appear to be losing subscribers. One person was a 15 year subscriber and he left. I've been subscribing for at least 10 years.


That's anecdote, not statistics. (I can't find proper numbers in a few minutes' Googling, but apparently HBO is still at around 30 million subscribers, which is apparently twice Showtime's base.)



> _Yes, this is the kind of crap that FOX does. Oh and isn't FOX owned by Time Warner, HBO, Rupert Murdock?_


HBO is owned by Time Warner, and Fox is owned by Rupert Murdoch, yes. But Fox and Time Warner are entirely separate.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

pomerlp said:


> Wow, what kind of contract do these actors get? The Sopranos go two years between seasons and they got paid for it? I know nothing about Hollywood but that just seems stupid to me. Big Love isn't returning until 2009 and you know those kids are going to be much older looking. Are they getting paid? The Shield, Rescue Me are others. Are they getting paid?


I'm guessing there's a difference between having to pay the actors while you're actually shooting and have the program sitting in the can until you air it after a significant break; versus having to pay actors to "keep them on board" until the writers/production staff clear their schedules to work on that project so there is actually something for the actors to do. That would seem to me to be the case with Deadwood if, in fact, Milch would not be able to work on Deadwood for a while due to his work on JiC.


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## pomerlp (Apr 22, 2008)

wmcbrine said:


> HBO is owned by Time Warner, and Fox is owned by Rupert Murdoch, yes. But Fox and Time Warner are entirely separate.


You sure as heck wouldn't know it from the movies they play. I haven't looked in a while but I noticed that every Saturday Night Movie (if they still have that) was 20th Century Fox. Coincidence? I think not.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

HBO can have a contract with 20th Century Fox studios for first rights to air their movies (all the movie channels, it seems, have such contracts with certain studios) without actually being owned by those studios.


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

Heads up.

Generation Kill premieres Sunday night.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

BTW, Real Time with Bill Maher is available as a free podcast.. at least I think it's still the whole show.. it used to be.. (I have a ton that I haven't listened to.)


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## clreimers (Feb 8, 2007)

I think they have also lost their ability to realize a good show. I believed they turned down both 'Mad Men' and 'Breaking Bad'. Two programs that went on to moderate success on other cable outlets.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

pomerlp said:


> Point taken but on the other hand we pay money for HBO. So we expect superior new shows. So perhaps that's what put Rome and Deadwood on the chopping block but they lost me as a subscriber.
> 
> Now let's take a look at FX. In my book here is a network that produces shows that are very close to the quality of HBO's older shows. Rescue Me, The Shield, Dirt, Nip/Tuck and The Riches are darn close to the quality of what HBO use to put out. And no subscription fee, Just commercials.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree with you more. To me, after The Sopranos ended and Deadwood didn't come back, HBO has steadily gone downhill. I like Big Love and I liked Carnivale, and John Adams was great, but obviouly only a limited mini-series. I keep HBO for Bill Maher and Boxing, but I find less and less to watch on it each month.

As for FX, Rescue Me and The Riches are shows just like HBO had only with no nudity. But the stories are edgy just like the HBO series used to be. I don't have Showtime, but I've seen Dexter on CBS, and Dead Like Me on HDNet and those series are terrific. But not enough to subscribe to it (I'll DVD Dexter eventually). I'd also like to add two USA series which I think are terrific, In Plain Site and Burn Notice. While lighter than the shows on FX, they are definitely the type of shows that HBO could have carried.

I have limited desire to see the Iraq war show (Personally just sick of the whole thing), and shows like Tell Me you Love me and In Treatment were just BORING)


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## jgerry (Aug 29, 2001)

I just called Comcast and switched my premium channel from HBO to Showtime. I can't justify HBO anymore, there's just nothing I watch anymore.

I'm looking forward to watching Weeds again, I'm going to check out Diary of a Secret Callgirl, and I'm seriously looking forward to the second season of Californication -- I plowed through season one (at $2 per episode) in about 3 days from Amazon Unbox.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

For a long time, I've canceled the Home Box whenever the good shows are on hiatus, then re-upped on some kind of special deal w Comcast when the good shows come back.

By "good shows," I mean: The Sopranos, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Entourage and Inside the NFL.

Now, two of those are gone and two aren't coming back anytime soon. No reason to watch HBO anytime soon.


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

I just dropped all the premium channels except Showtime. Why did I keep Showtime? New episodes of Seeds, Secret Diary of a Callgirl and Penn & Teller: Bullsh*t. I watch almost none of the movies on Showtime. They seem to target their movies to a more ethnic audience.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

I have three premiums for the price of 1 with Comcast right now. If I didn't, I might seriously consider dropping HBO. At least until new episodes of Entourage and Big Love are due back. When is that, anyway?


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

aindik said:


> I have three premiums for the price of 1 with Comcast right now. If I didn't, I might seriously consider dropping HBO. At least until new episodes of Entourage and Big Love are due back. When is that, anyway?


Big Love is the only one I'm interested in on HBO right now. No idea when Season 3 will happen, but I'll pick HBO back up when it airs.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Oh, yeah. I left Big Love off my list of shows I like on HBO. I like that one, too.

I've never understood why there is such a long time between "seasons" of some of these shows. They lose all momentum and lose a lot of viewers. What else do these people have to do? Crank those shows out, will you?

It also seems like HBO, and other networks, should stagger the "seasons" more. So if Curb Your Enthusiasm and Entourage don't have any new shows for a while, you can watch Big Love. But, no, they don't do that.


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

tivoboyjr said:


> Oh, yeah. I left Big Love off my list of shows I like on HBO. I like that one, too.
> 
> I've never understood why there is such a long time between "seasons" of some of these shows. They lose all momentum and lose a lot of viewers. What else do these people have to do? Crank those shows out, will you?
> 
> It also seems like HBO, and other networks, should stagger the "seasons" more. So if Curb Your Enthusiasm and Entourage don't have any new shows for a while, you can watch Big Love. But, no, they don't do that.


Because people tend to keep their subscriptions between seasons so they don't have to worry about when it's coming back on and resubscribing.


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## emandbri (Jul 5, 2004)

We don't usually have any premium channels but did get sucked into Big Love when we were at my parents for a month last year so we had it until the season ended. When it comes back I might get it again or might wait for the DVDs. If they do show fire and ice I will get it though.


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## calitivo (Dec 6, 2002)

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=46855

Showtime and Weinstein Co. Sign 7-Year Deal

Showtime Networks and The Weinstein Company just announced they have signed a seven-year deal for up to 95 films including Nine, Inglorious Bastards, Scream 4 and many more:

In a move that enhances its slate of theatrical motion pictures, Showtime Networks Inc. has entered into an exclusive seven-year film distribution arrangement with The Weinstein Company (TWC). The joint announcement was made today by Matthew C. Blank, Chairman and CEO of Showtime Networks and Bob and Harvey Weinstein, Co-Chairmen of TWC.


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

Interesting enough I think the signal marker of HBO's demise is when they stopped launching a new movie on Saturday Nights. For years I could check them on Saturday night for a new release movie to cable. Very often this was something I wanted to see, and given the lack of actual programming on tv Saturday Nights it was nice.

This came about around the time Sopranos ended, Deadwood etc. I just think there has been a philosophical change there for the worst.

HBO used to do so much more with original programming. From shows like Taxi Cab Confessions, to some of the awesome documentaries, mini-series and one-off programs. I think all of that went down hill a bit when they became so popular with the serial programs, but now that has ended I would like to see them broaden back out. Even the comedy specials that were a staple are almost non-existent.

Not to mention I think they have gotten too gunshy of ratings which has never been a factor in the past. They have the liberty of letting shows run longer to get their legs, but they have been very quick in the past 2 years to axe shows after one season.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Anyone happen to know why the start of new shows on HBO, Cinemax, etc isn't predictable? I don't mind a year long break but I'd like it to be at least somewhat predictable about when the show comes back.

For example, _Entourage_. When is it coming back? If at all. The premiere dates thread doesn't mention it.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Last I heard Entourage is coming back "sometime" in the fall. Big Love not until 2009.

Both were to air this summer but were delayed due to the writer's strike.


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

Sirius Black said:


> Anyone happen to know why the start of new shows on HBO, Cinemax, etc isn't predictable? I don't mind a year long break but I'd like it to be at least somewhat predictable about when the show comes back.
> 
> For example, _Entourage_. When is it coming back? If at all. The premiere dates thread doesn't mention it.


Because they want you to keep your subscription month after month. If they had a specific schedule when their shows would start, some people would only keep HBO for those few months.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

I know I sure would.


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## jilter (Oct 4, 2002)

Great thread. I do not watch that much t.v., but am addicted when I find something to my tastes.
I have been so frustrated by lack of programming from HBO.
They used to be the whole reason I watched tv. Now I keep looking and it is simply not happening. I am done trying to figure out when the shows I enjoy are coming back.
I have made notes from here and will venture into other networks for shows to watch.
I love Bill Maher, but really that's about all they have.

Jill


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

I haven't had HBO in years - there was simply nothing on the network that justified the cost, to me anyway. The wife and I like _Big Love_, and I like _Entourage_, but I almost prefer to just watch those through Netflix. I think the last time I had an HBO subscription that I paid for was the last time they the Cowboys featured on _Hard Knocks_ - which means that I'll be adding it next month for the same reason. So I guess I will be an HBO subscriber again, at least for 5 weeks.


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

Anyone want to catch something surreally interesting, check out the Heidi Fleiss documentary. It is like an hour and 15 minutes, and amazingly fascinating.

I will spoil it a bit:



Spoiler



She goes from someone who looks like she is going to be back on top doing what she wants into a crazy bird lady who lives in the middle of the desert and talks to herself.



But HBO used to do a lot of excellent documentaries and other programming, a nice slate of series. I just think the people who used to be responsible for greenlighting shows have moved on to other companies and now the lack of talent is shown.


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## jilter (Oct 4, 2002)

marksman said:


> But HBO used to do a lot of excellent documentaries and other programming, a nice slate of series. I just think the people who used to be responsible for greenlighting shows have moved on to other companies and now the lack of talent is shown.


This is probably most true. And maybe, all of a sudden, HBO is not the place to take your fresh ideas.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Well I did it. Yesterday I went to my local Bright House Networks facility and canceled HBO, Cinemax, and Showtime. Then proceeded to upgrade my internet connection from a measly 1.5Mbps. to a comparatively blazing fast 15 Mbps. The old service is Verizon. The new is a cable modem. Can't wait till they "install" on Saturday.

To bring it back to HBO, I was told when I canceled that if I went with Bright house for phone service too, I could upgrade to 20Mbps and get 2 premium channels (HBO, Cinemax, Showtime) free for a year. If they upgrade goes smoothly, I might just do that.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

There's as an article in last week's _Entertainment Weekly_ about HBO's slump.

It now appears to be online at their website...

HBO in Treatment

The article also mentions several projects that they're working on...

_"the comedy Hung from Dmitry Lipkin (The Riches), about a well-endowed high school basketball coach (Thomas Jane); the comedy Bored to Death from novelist Jonathan Ames, about a depressed alcoholic (Jason Schwartzman) who emulates his favorite heroes from Raymond Chandler and Dashiell Hammett novels; a post-Katrina drama called Tremé from David Simon (The Wire); and a period drama about Atlantic City titled Boardwalk Empire that's exec-produced by Martin Scorsese. [...] a comedy from Sarah Jessica Parker called Washingtonienne, about young women dating and working in Washington, D.C., as well as a new comedy dubbed How to Make It in America from Mark Wahlberg's production company, about three twentysomethings who hustle their way through New York City."_


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## ScubaCat (Jun 26, 2003)

In my opinion, the reason HBO is so bad lately doesn't really have anything to do with their lack of original programming. That's just icing on the cake to me. I originally got HBO to watch good movies. There use to be a good mix of popular movies and a few quirky ones you never heard of but were great. Now it's just mush. Even the Saturday night movie is mush. If all else failed at least I could set my TiVo for 8 PM on Saturday night to catch a good movie, but not any more. Why can't the HBO head honchos at least fix that? That would be a good start.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

If what you consider "good" movies isn't what most of America considers "good" movies, then there is nothing to "fix".


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

ScubaCat said:


> In my opinion, the reason HBO is so bad lately doesn't really have anything to do with their lack of original programming. That's just icing on the cake to me. I originally got HBO to watch good movies. There use to be a good mix of popular movies and a few quirky ones you never heard of but were great. Now it's just mush. Even the Saturday night movie is mush. If all else failed at least I could set my TiVo for 8 PM on Saturday night to catch a good movie, but not any more. Why can't the HBO head honchos at least fix that? That would be a good start.


Michael Clayton and American Gangster are mush?


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I don't subscribe to HBO for their movies. It's for the original programming these days. Besides, by the time HBO gets around to bradcasting a movie I've probably seen it on DVD/Blu-ray months earlier.


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