# System Message 27/5/11 - TiVo is about to switch off your current service.



## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

> Subject: TiVo is about to switch off your current service.
> From: The TiVo Team
> Date: Fri 27th May 2011
> Expire: Fri 3rd Jun 2011
> ...


.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

> TiVo will begin discontinuing service


Some poor guy on a IBM PC XT keyboard logging into each account one by one setting them to closed 

Automan.


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## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

SQLStmt = "UPDATE Tivos SET AccountStatus=8 WHERE TivoServiceNumber LIKE '023%'"


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Automan said:


> Some poor guy on a IBM PC XT keyboard logging into each account one by one setting them to closed


The London 2012 Ticketing Office also still seems to only use an XT computer for their credit card payment processing........


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

> On 01/06/2011 TiVo will *begin* discontinuing service for your TiVo box.


That seems to suggest there is a process involved in shutting down the service, not a simple flip of the switch. Besides Tivo has never been able to meet deadlines they've announced. They've been announcing the release of a DirecTivo unit in the US for 2 years now and it's still nowhere in sight.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

WhiskeyTango said:


> That seems to suggest there is a process involved in shutting down the service, not a simple flip of the switch. Besides Tivo has never been able to meet deadlines they've announced. They've been announcing the release of a DirecTivo unit in the US for 2 years now and it's still nowhere in sight.


But now that Virgin Media has generated all the Tivo Premiere sales from the Virgin Media S1 customer base that they're ever going to get then why spend money on doing something that won't actually generate new revenue and may result in a Class Action law suit in a US court from a group of British S1 Tivo owners.

They can always justify it by sending out a System Message saying "Tivo has listened to customer feedback from its most loyal British customers and has decided to "reach out" to everyone who does not live in a Virgin Media Cable cabled area by continuing to provide UK S1 service for at least another three years"...............


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## martink0646 (Feb 8, 2005)

I would have have thought that there was a much stronger legal case for someone who has paid £199.00 + subs because they had been told that something was going to end when in fact it didn't over someone claiming against TiVo for loss of lifetime?

Martin


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

martink0646 said:


> I would have have thought that there was a much stronger legal case for someone who has paid £199.00 + subs because they had been told that something was going to end when in fact it didn't over someone claiming against TiVo for loss of lifetime?
> 
> Martin


There you go with your logical thinking.


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## michael401 (May 20, 2011)

I know if I'd gone out and bought a £300 Humax because Tivo said they were stopping the service but then they didn't in fact stop it, I would be suing Tivo for my wasted £300!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

martink0646 said:


> I would have have thought that there was a much stronger legal case for someone who has paid £199.00 + subs because they had been told that something was going to end when in fact it didn't over someone claiming against TiVo for loss of lifetime?


If you paid monthly subs then your only possible claim is for your now worthless hardware but as that is more than five years old I doubt you can argue it is no longer Fit For The Purpose. A Lifetime subscriber has a much better case for arguing that given the lifetime of the average tv or domestic fridge that he interpreted Lifetime Service as being good for 20 years.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Pete77 said:


> A Lifetime subscriber has a much better case for arguing that given the lifetime of the average tv or domestic fridge that the interpreted Lifetime Service as being good for 20 years.


Because a hard drive based PVR is exactly like a fridge, isn't it ?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> Because a hard drive based PVR is exactly like a fridge, isn't it ?


Perhaps its more like a tv without a screen.

Either way its still a household electrical device.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Good luck returning that 19 year old TV for a 5% refund.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> Good luck returning that 19 year old TV for a 5% refund.


I can't even get 5% of what I paid for a Sony 32" CRT TV bought about 10 years ago. Even for free I get asked "can you deliver" therefore it is still in my garage.

Anybody interested in it for free PM me.


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## BrianHughes (Jan 21, 2001)

RichardJH said:


> I can't even get 5% of what I paid for a Sony 32" CRT TV bought about 10 years ago. Even for free I get asked "can you deliver" therefore it is still in my garage.
> 
> Anybody interested in it for free PM me.


Can you deliver it?


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

BrianHughes said:


> Can you deliver it?


Can't even lift it on my own


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

BrianHughes said:


> Can you deliver it?


I seem to recall that ferries across the Irish Sea are almost as unreasonably expensive as those from the Spanish mainland to the Balearic Islands. And the latter now cost £400 to £500 return for a car and just one driver during the summer months


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## CouchPotato (Jan 25, 2001)

RichardJH said:


> Can't even lift it on my own


I still have my Toshiba 36" 'flat screen' CRT (that I bought 10 years ago for £1,400 ). Have moved house with it twice now at significant effort - it weighs 250lbs 

Can definitely see the attraction of an LCD or Plasma, but really can't bring myself to just dump a perfectly functioning telly (with a great picture)...

cp


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## Steve_K (May 5, 2001)

back on topic . . . . . .

That System message has now disappeared from my TiVo yet it's still dialling up and getting updates

Did we dream the last 6 months and is Bobby Ewing going to walk out of a shower holding a brand new TiVo S1 service?

Well no but this does all smack of someone at TiVo dithering for a day or 3 while not having the guts to pull the plug


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## michael401 (May 20, 2011)

I think it's just Tivo Inc. being nice guys (as per usual) and just keeping it going for a few extra days. They know customer inertia means despite all the messages over the last 4 months many people will not actually do anything about it until 1st June arrives and then run around panicking about the imminent switch-off 

Also avoids any arguments about what they meant by "1st June" seeing as they didn't specify a time or even a timezone!


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## wearydba (Oct 23, 2007)

Is this for real ?

The only messages I've had on my TiVo since the start of 2011 have been line up changes.

Absolutely no notification of withdrawal of service whatsoever.

(Sorry, I've posted this twice because I am in shock.)


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## Trinitron (Jan 20, 2003)

Steve_K said:


> Well no but this does all smack of someone at TiVo dithering for a day or 3 while not having the guts to pull the plug


Not sure about not having the guts but definitely dithering! We don't know what's involved in turning off the service, it's probably low priority.

If the Tribune feeds are the same ones supplied to Virgin then they will want to make sure they aren't affected. As for the phone lines, if they are originally UUNet, they got taken over by Pipex, who were taken over by Tiscali, who were taken over by TalkTalk. And we know how useless TalkTalk are...


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## steveroe (Oct 29, 2002)

wearydba said:


> Is this for real ?
> 
> The only messages I've had on my TiVo since the start of 2011 have been line up changes.
> 
> ...


Yes it's for real. You should have received numerous messages on your Tivo over the last few months.

A community driven replacement is in testing www.altepg.com.


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## Steve_K (May 5, 2001)

michael401 said:


> I think it's just Tivo Inc. being nice guys (as per usual) . . .


what????

These were the people who launched a product not fit for purpose and took 2 years to admit it and correct it. Then they decided a lifetime promise could be unilaterally cut to be an as long as we feel like it promise.

If these are your "nice guys" just what do your everyday guys get up to (in between armed robbery etc)?


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Steve_K said:


> These were the people who launched a product not fit for purpose and took 2 years to admit it and correct it.




What do you mean?


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## dvdfever (Jun 2, 2002)

RichardJH said:


> I can't even get 5% of what I paid for a Sony 32" CRT TV bought about 10 years ago. Even for free I get asked "can you deliver" therefore it is still in my garage.
> 
> Anybody interested in it for free PM me.


It comes to something when, in separate cases for a 28" and 32" 16:9 CRT, I couldn't even give them away on Freecycle(!)

Now, I've got a Ferguson 26" 4:3 set from 1983. Anyone want it?


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## Steve_K (May 5, 2001)

TCM2007 said:


> What do you mean?


Ah I see you didn't reg up til after 2.5.5

The original TiVo UK build assumed for some dumb or arrogant reason that the BBC had adverts so there was no need to have an option to add on time to recordings as any programme overrun would be absorbed by those mythical ads. Damn thing was nigh on useless for BBC but hey ho it was only the #1 broadcaster at the time.

Look through the archive threads, TiVo (those so called "good guys") just would not do anything timely about it preferring to save money by waiting til build 2.5.5. meantime the product was not fit for purpose and many on this forum were contemplating seeking legal redress.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

I was a TiVo owner from the start; I recall 1.5.2. 2.5.5 was a big improvement, but you're overstating it to say it was not fit for purpose before then. Nor can I remember anyone saying so at the time, but you may be right; it was a long time ago!

I was on the beta programme for 2.5.5 less than a year after TiVo launched, and padding was on their stated roadmap way before then, so how you get to "2 years before they admit it" I don't know.


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## Steve_K (May 5, 2001)

TiVo launched in the UK around April 2000 (deliveries took a while longer) but it wasn't til 2002 before we got the timing fix. That looks like the best part of 2 years to me.

The search function doesn't work on the archives right now but _Here's _ just one example of where it wasn't just me that was fed up with the daftness of the early TiVo design not allowing padding


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

TiVo launched in October 2000. Less than a year later I was running 2.5.5. Admittedly I was on the beta programme, but it was only a matter of weeks before it rolled out more generally.

There were a handful of threads on the subject - you found the main one - but very few. And there was no uprising of threatened legal action.

The suggestion that it took two years to admit there was a problem is plain wrong. The addition of padding to 2.0 was announced very soon after TiVo launched in the UK, but things were delayed by wanting to get the US and UK TiVos on a common code base.

I found the lack of padding a problem; even 2.5.5 didn't fix it, which is why I wrote EndPad!


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## Steve_K (May 5, 2001)

TCM2007 said:


> TiVo launched in October 2000. . .


They didn't deliver til October 2000 but they were in market tease mode long before that having launched the brand much earlier

Press release via the Guardian in January 2000 _link_

Announcement of a deal with Sky in March 2000 _link_

Inconceivable they weren't alpha testing all that time, inconceivable they hadn't seen the BBC issue on timing but hey ho it worked on ad ridden Sky. Fails my view of what a "good guy" is.


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## Trinitron (Jan 20, 2003)

Steve_K said:


> Inconceivable they weren't alpha testing all that time, inconceivable they hadn't seen the BBC issue on timing but hey ho it worked on ad ridden Sky. Fails my view of what a "good guy" is.


I bet the other products in that Guardian article all worked perfectly out of the box too...

X-Box
Windows 2000
Bluetooth 1.0

to name but 3!


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

All the forums from that time are still on here. Skip through the threads from that first year - there simply wasn't a mass feeling that TiVo was broken, certainly no-one I can find was suggesting taking their TiVos back, let alone taking out legal action. 

The BBC were provided with a pre-launch TiVo to test - until recently I think Hywel was still using it, with its unique service code!


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## Trinitron (Jan 20, 2003)

Steve_K said:


> The original TiVo UK build assumed for some dumb or arrogant reason that the BBC had adverts so there was no need to have an option to add on time to recordings as any programme overrun would be absorbed by those mythical ads. Damn thing was nigh on useless for BBC but hey ho it was only the #1 broadcaster at the time.


How many people realised there was a solution to this problem? If you look at the alternatives to Tivo around this time, PDC was in its infancy and never fully reliable and VideoPlus never padded programme times. I think you are allowing hindsight to cloud your memories here.


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## Steve_K (May 5, 2001)

er no

I know facts are so unpopular with some but for a fair while pre TiVo there was a device called Gemstar Videoplus. Not just the code but an actual standalone device see below. It controlled your Videorecorder and Satellite and hey presto it had automatic soft padding (which TiVo never managed to sort for us)










So yes TiVo should have known.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

1.5 was far from perfect. But it wasn't unusable, as evidenced by the thousands who used it do a year.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Steve_K said:


> It controlled your Videorecorder and Satellite and hey presto it had automatic soft padding (which TiVo never managed to sort for us)


But fortunately TCM2007's former alter ego did sort out this problem for those of us with hacked Tivos........


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## Steve_K (May 5, 2001)

TCM2007 said:


> 1.5 was far from perfect. But it wasn't unusable, as evidenced by the thousands who used it do a year.


Agreed but it was so bad on BBC that I kept a parallel videorecorder too and recorded from terrestial. IMHO 1.5 wasn't fit for purpose as being the only recorder in a UK house and TiVo almost certainly knew it before they delivered even the first ones.

What 1.5 was very good for was Sky Digital - well EPG errors excepted.

BTW this whole line of debate arises from the comment made that TiVO _as usual _were being good guys. I just don't get that but it's a free world.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

I think you were in a small minority doing that.

The "as usual" probably refers to not stopping the service when they pulled out of the UK nine years ago.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

How come a Tivo user came up with a better solution for padding than the whole of Tivo inc?

Well done BTW.

P.S. You don't want to help Samsung out with their new Freesat+ box do you?

It knows a program starts late and starts at the correct moment but they seem to have forgot to move back the program end time so you loose the program end.

Total idiots 

Automan.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Automan said:


> P.S. You don't want to help Samsung out with their new Freesat+ box do you?
> 
> It knows a program starts late and starts at the correct moment but they seem to have forgot to move back the program end time so you loose the program end.


Does that mean you haven't taken it back yet and are still giving them a further chance to fix it?

The rot set in with all these outfits when the techies no longer had to handle feedback from upset customers who instead are now forced to speak to technically brain dead numb skulls in customer services who are told to file the customer feedback in an electronic waste paper basket.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Pete77 said:


> Does that mean you haven't taken it back yet and are still giving them a further chance to fix it?
> 
> The rot set in with all these outfits when the techies no longer had to handle feedback from upset customers who instead are now forced to speak to technically brain dead numb skulls in customer services who are told to file the customer feedback in an electronic waste paper basket.


If I can fit in the time I shall take it back this week.

Till I tried it again yesterday and it cut off the end of two out of three recordings I set it to make, I had forgotten how bad it was...

It also lost all planned single recordings overnight except for one on during the night and for that it made six recordings.

Automan.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Automan said:


> Till I tried it again yesterday and it cut off the end of two out of three recordings I set it to make, I had forgotten how bad it was...
> 
> It also lost all planned single recordings overnight except for one on during the night and for that it made six recordings.


Even a VCR sounds like it would be more reliable than this device!


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## michael401 (May 20, 2011)

Steve_K said:


> I know facts are so unpopular with some but for a fair while pre TiVo there was a device called Gemstar Videoplus.
> 
> So yes TiVo should have known.


So what you're suggesting is that because the Porsche 996 uses ceramic brake discs then all other cars currently being sold are unfit for purpose and we should all be {quote}"contemplating seeking legal redress"{/quote} for having plain old iron brakes which work only 99% of the time.


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## michael401 (May 20, 2011)

Steve_K said:


> IMHO 1.5 wasn't fit for purpose


If you really thought that at the time (and aren't just using hindsight) then you should've taken it back to the shop for a refund.


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## Heuer (Mar 15, 2004)

michael401 said:


> So what you're suggesting is that because the Porsche 996 uses ceramic brake discs then all other cars currently being sold are unfit for purpose and we should all be {quote}"contemplating seeking legal redress"{/quote} for having plain old iron brakes which work only 99% of the time.


Bad example! It does not. But Porsche do offer ceramic discs as a CMO* option.

*Cynical Marketing Opportunity


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## michael401 (May 20, 2011)

Actually they were standard fit on the GT2 (but optional on the GT3  )


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## Steve_K (May 5, 2001)

And it's not like a top level Porsche represents the mainstream of vehicles is it? Well not in my circle.

Standalone Videoplus was very much the main option in the late 90's for smart recording of satelite sourced material - so it was the one to compare against.

And FWIW yes I did consider taking the 1.5 TiVo back but if you look we were continually being teased here with hints that the fix was imminent.


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## michael401 (May 20, 2011)

Steve_K said:


> Standalone Videoplus was very much the main option in the late 90's for smart recording of satelite sourced material - so it was the one to compare against.


You are trying to suggest that a niche market top of the range unit which {quote}controlled your Videorecorder *and *Satellite{/quote} was 
'mainstream'... I don't think so!

p.s. It wasn't Videoplus that did the programme padding it was PDC - which was (and still is) flaky at best.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_recorder_scheduling_code


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## mutant_matt2 (Dec 16, 2008)

Well my last VCR (I still have it (I really must get round to encoding those last couple of irreplaceable recordings!  )), padded VideoPlus, on all channels. I think only this was over-ridden when the programme had PDC (which IIRC, at the time, was only Channel 4).

On my (Panasonic) VCR, when you entered the VP code, it displayed the start and end times, which were clearly to start too early and finish late (I have no idea if that was "built in" to the VP code, or something the VCR did itself...)


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## Steve_K (May 5, 2001)

michael401 said:


> You are trying to suggest that a niche market top of the range unit which {quote}controlled your Videorecorder *and *Satellite{/quote} was
> 'mainstream'... I don't think so!
> 
> p.s. It wasn't Videoplus that did the programme padding it was PDC - which was (and still is) flaky at best.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_recorder_scheduling_code


Errr no

PDC is real time source controlled whereas Videoplus is a programme time encoding system that predates it by several years. It was first implemented in standalone Videoplus units that added soft padding to the encoded times, IIRC about 5 minutes end pad unless another programme immediately followed. Most of the subsequent licensed Videoplus in recorder implementations didn't (but they came along after the standalone unit)

When UK TiVo was being designed around 1999, standalone Videoplus was the only available recording solution that included Satellite channel set up. So not "mainstream" per se as Satellite itself was far from mainstream then but the main option for TiVo to compare against.

If you look on TiVo Portal you can find a rather poor note by TiVo's Ted Malone where he tries to illogically explain why they didn't do end padding. An answer shown as false by 2.5.5.

Bottom line is TiVo 1.5 had a design flaw that must have been apparent in alpha testing. "Good guys" wouldn't release such flawed units to production sales.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Arguably that problem is still not fixed - hard end padding is of limited use in a single tuner device; it just moves the problem from missed endings to missed whole programmes.

A system of adding features to software over time, or cynically releasing known broken software?

I think we've already established you're a half-empty guy!


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## Steve_K (May 5, 2001)

TCM2007 said:


> . .I think we've already established you're a half-empty guy!


I'd rather be seen as half empty than a serial "just can't resist a cheap jibe guy"

A number on this forum saw and still see TiVo as a science project as much as what it should have been: a consumer product. As the first it's been wonderfully much more than half full but as the latter? Science projects are what I do as a living, when I get home I just want things to work.

Truth is I mostly gave up on Tivo for Sky+ around 2003. With it's much more reliable OS and hardware (maybe one reboot needed in 10 years!) TiVo has been a very good back up recorder but the early year end pad issue and the enduring issues over EPG accuracy and inability to cover in day changes meant Sky+ (and later multiple Sky+s) became the dominant way watch we watch TV

Still 50:50 if I decide to switch to AltEPG. Wouldn't be fair to take up the limited dial up bandwidth for a back up recorder and arguably not worth £100 and the jiggerypokery to network it.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Interesting; that's a very early switch. I guess TiVo just didn't suit you; I couldn't have moved to Sky+ as a main source, especially back then when series links were erratic at best.

I parallel ran MCE, 3 TiVos and Sky+HD for a while, before finally retiring the TiVos (and Sky) when I moved house three years ago, with Freeview MCE now being the only broadcast source..


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## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> Interesting; that's a very early switch. I guess TiVo just didn't suit you; I couldn't have moved to Sky+ as a main source, especially back then when series links were erratic at best.
> 
> I parallel ran MCE, 3 TiVos and Sky+HD for a while, before finally retiring the TiVos (and Sky) when I moved house three years ago, with Freeview MCE now being the only broadcast source..


Just wondering, but why do you have a picture of Rafa Benitez as your avatar?


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## sjp (Oct 22, 2001)

6022tivo said:


> Just wondering, but why do you have a picture of Rafa Benitez as your avatar?


not so much that he looks like somebody else what I want to know is how the beardy git looks younger than he did is his last avatar pic of a few years back, i reckon he has pictures taken every year and chooses whichever suits the age he feels at any given time.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Steve_K said:


> I'd rather be seen as half empty than a serial "just can't resist a cheap jibe guy"


Seconded.:up::up::up:


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## Heuer (Mar 15, 2004)

I think you are being grossly unfair to the serial cheap jibe guys! Wouldn't you prefer to be half full than half empty?


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

sjp said:


> not so much that he looks like somebody else what I want to know is how the beardy git looks younger than he did is his last avatar pic of a few years back, i reckon he has pictures taken every year and chooses whichever suits the age he feels at any given time.


I have a picture from when I was 23 I used on FB for a while, maybe I should switch to that. The 80s hairdo is a bit much though.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Seconded.:up::up::up:


It's the internet folks, moaning (half empty guys) and needling (serial cheap jibe guys) are what powers the web!


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## sjp (Oct 22, 2001)

sigh, i too had hair in the 80's, then i had kids.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> It's the internet folks, moaning (half empty guys) and needling (serial cheap jibe guys) are what powers the web!


So you admit to being the latter (a serial cheap jibes guy) and that also us half glass empty chaps would be badly missed by the cheap jibe guys if we suddenly desisted from posting?

I also can't decide whether the bearded picture of TCM2007 is more recent than the one that used to be displayed for Sanderton or if you have merely grown a beard and lost a lot of weight since those days.


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## Heuer (Mar 15, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> .......... half glass empty chaps


Shouldn't that be "chaps empty glass half" or would that be a jibe cheap?


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## Steve_K (May 5, 2001)

TCM2007 said:


> Interesting; that's a very early switch. I guess TiVo just didn't suit you; I couldn't have moved to Sky+ as a main source, especially back then when series links were erratic at best.
> 
> I parallel ran MCE, 3 TiVos and Sky+HD for a while, before finally retiring the TiVos (and Sky) when I moved house three years ago, with Freeview MCE now being the only broadcast source..


I loved the TiVo box reliability and the user interface, still do. But that EPG was full of stupid stupid errors. As you say Season passes on Sky have never been good and back then they were awful but somehow it made less mistakes than TiVo+Tribune. Sky's never been good at handling schedule clashes but the picture quality and dynamic recoding retiming was much much better and as reliability went up it's use did.

We now run a Sky+, a Sky HD+, a BT Vision Freeview recorder, (very rarely) a hard disk DVD recorder and as a backup, programme search and random suggestion recorder the TiVo on terrestial. Probably watch less than 5% of what gets recorded and there are many duplicates.

Just bought a Freeview box for a whole £11 to possibly use on TiVo one way or another once Analogue terrestial gets switched off. Would just hate to never get that TiVo User Interface again. Nothing beats it.


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