# Padding not being recorded on 20.4.6



## Pejota (Sep 5, 2013)

Sorry if this was mentioned elsewhere, but I noticed a bug with padding tonight.

I set all my OnePasses to record one extra minute at the end of each show. Tonight I had a couple of hour-long shows scheduled to record at 8:00, and 3 shows scheduled to record at 9:00. 2 of the 3 later shows are on the same channels as the earlier 2. Because of the padding, I was expecting 5 tuners to be in use from 9:00-9:01. I happened to be looking at the recording lights on the front of the Roamio, and 5 lights were lit for only a second or two, not the whole minute. I checked the recordings, and the playback bar shows the expected 1:01 length, but the recordings actually end at the one hour mark.

Anyone else notice this? I had the tuners available to cover the padding, but the TiVo didn't even try to tune a second instance of the two channels.


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## Keen (Aug 3, 2009)

Were these Season/One Passes setup initially prior to the shows being in the guide data? Were they initiLly setup to record All Channels?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I've seen this for several versions. It seems random and I can't figure out what causes it. The play bar will have the full 31 minutes, or 1:01, but the last minute will not have the green filled in.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

[redacted by nooneuknow]


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Dan203 said:


> I've seen this for several versions. It seems random and I can't figure out what causes it. The play bar will have the full 31 minutes, or 1:01, but the last minute will not have the green filled in.


I have seen this randomly for quite some time also.

I believe it started when TiVo removed the overlapping recordings being able to use a single tuner.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

nooneuknow said:


> Is there a thread on this, before OnePass?
> 
> I seem to recall some established members seeing the same thing, but always seemed to mention it in passing, in some unspecific threads (past update threads come to mind).
> 
> I agree, it's not new to 20.4.6/OnePass (in that it was reported long before it, by multiple established members). I won't attempt to dispute if this is new to individuals who believe otherwise (new to them, only seeming to manifest post-update). Stranger things have happened.


I made this post about several minutes clipped from a program for no apparent reason in a short thread titled "New HD UI To-Do list not showing clipped recording indication", which might be related. I have since wondered if incidents like that could result when a conflict causes the scheduler to specify clipping, then the conflict is later resolved by a guide update, but the clipping remains even though it is no longer necessary. Obviously clipping decisions should be made as late as possible.


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## Am_I_Evil (Apr 7, 2009)

i have been wondering what was happening with this for a while (before 20.4.6)...now that i think about it it is on shows where i record the same channel after....it seems that instead of using 2 tuners it just starts the next recording on the same one and doesn't record the padding (ie: Flash into Arrow...Flash never has the 1 min pad)


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## WorldBandRadio (Dec 20, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> I've seen this for several versions. It seems random and I can't figure out what causes it. The play bar will have the full 31 minutes, or 1:01, but the last minute will not have the green filled in.


I never saw this issue on my Series3/HD, but that may be due to only two tuners available.

A common element I've seen so far for this on my Roamio Pro is that it occurs when at least four tuners are recording. Not all the time when four tuners are recording; but all the times it occurs, four tuners are recording.

I am still trying to track down the other part of the trigger....


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

It's almost like they used the code for scheduling that used the same tuner for recording overlaps, but took out the part that can actually use the same tuner on two recordings.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

Arcady said:


> It's almost like they used the code for scheduling that used the same tuner for recording overlaps, but took out the part that can actually use the same tuner on two recordings.


Interesting thought. That would be just a quick and dirty fix, which hopefully might indicate that TiVo hasn't given up on re-releasing (fully debugged) the single-tuner overlap which any modern, high-end DVR should have.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Also I have overlap protection turned off, so it's not that.

And it's not necessarily due to overlap at all. I've seen this happen on a few shows in the 9:30-10:00 time slot when I have nothing recording at 10:00, on any channel.


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## Pejota (Sep 5, 2013)

Keen said:


> Were these Season/One Passes setup initially prior to the shows being in the guide data? Were they initiLly setup to record All Channels?


On one channel, both shows are set to All Channels. On the other channel, neither show is set to All Channels.

I see by the replies that it's not a new bug. I guess I was just lucky to have never come across or notice it.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

As mentioned, lots of people have reported this problem from time to time. Apparently unrelated to this problem is the fact that the channel guide data often has the start or end times offset from the hour by a minute or two, for reasons which I will not speculate here. Sometimes the show start times will match the offset start times and sometimes they don't, it doesn't seem very consistent.

As a consequence I have made my default recording practice to pad one minute on the front and four minutes on the end; it results in the same conflicts as if everything were padded by a minute but now I don't miss anything except when they play football on Sunday, and since I'm in California a game has to go pretty late to be a problem for us here. In either case whether I were to pad for one minute at the end or 1+4 as I actually do I would have to watch for the odd conflict on broadcast networks and deal with it, and that is indeed what I do.

I'm not entirely convinced that TiVo has a problem ignoring one minute padding requests (although I'm not dismissing the idea either), but even if don't, or they do and they fix it, you'd still have to allow for the intentional broadcast stunting if you don't want to miss the beginnings and endings of everything.


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## WorldBandRadio (Dec 20, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> ...I've seen this happen on a few shows in the 9:30-10:00 time slot ...


Whoa, methinks that may be significant (or not, to be determined). Most of my "-1 padding" issues have been occurring in that time frame.

Thanks, I'll be looking more closely for that symptom here.


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## WorldBandRadio (Dec 20, 2010)

ej42137 said:


> ... Apparently unrelated to this problem is the fact that the channel guide data often has the start or end times offset from the hour by a minute or two, for reasons which I will not speculate here. ...


That has not been an issue for me.

When I've seen the loss of the extra minute, the guide has always shown the correct timings for the start and stop times of the show.

Always.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

nooneuknow said:


> Is there a thread on this, before OnePass?


I created a thread about this problem back in Novemeber.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=522768

From my "testing" it seems padding up to, but not including 5 minutes may be "ignored" despite having a number of free tuners. Well not actually ignored as up until the point it stops recording, all indications are that padding is working.

I never did narrow down what the cause is, though for me this is currently only happening on back to back recordings that are padded, which is one of my 55 1Ps. For months padding was never recording on that recording.

I contacted TiVo support about this in November and they had me do all kind of weird things such as reordering season passes, turning off overlap protection, changing the padding time and the like. With only one show per week having this problem, it made troubleshooting it difficult as I could only test one potential fix per week.

I finally "fixed" the issue by increasing the padding to 5 minutes, waiting for the show to record again and then decreasing it back to 1 minute. This worked until last week when it didn't record the padding again. This was a few weeks after receiving 20.4.6.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Wow there must be some randomness to it then, I have a ton of SPs (now 1Ps) with either 1 or 2 minute padding and they all pad correctly on every recording. And plenty of them record at the same time so multiple tuners are in use (with overlaps).


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> Also I have overlap protection turned off, so it's not that.
> 
> And it's not necessarily due to overlap at all. I've seen this happen on a few shows in the 9:30-10:00 time slot when I have nothing recording at 10:00, on any channel.


I've only seen this happen when I have back to back programs scheduled to record on the same channel and they have an overlap. It's never been an issue for me since if the previews from next week happen to be missing I know they will be on the recording for the next show. I think this has been happening ever since they rolled back the feature that tried to use one tuner for two overlapping recordings.

I only have a couple of shows that do this since I rarely have a need to pad a recording. But it has been a consistent thing for the recordings that overlap back to back on the same channel.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

OK, but I have multiple 1Ps with back-to-back recordings on same channel with 1-minute padding and I've never seen the pad fail. It's not a consistently reproducible bug in other words.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

aaronwt said:


> I've only seen this happen when I have back to back programs scheduled to record on the same channel and they have an overlap. It's never been an issue for me since if the previews from next week happen to be missing I know they will be on the recording for the next show. I think this has been happening ever since they rolled back the feature that tried to use one tuner for two overlapping recordings.
> 
> I only have a couple of shows that do this since I rarely have a need to pad a recording. But it has been a consistent thing for the recordings that overlap back to back on the same channel.


For some reason I see it a lot on Fox. In particular I tend to see it a lot on The Mindy Project, which is on from 9:30-10:00 but I've also seen it on Family Guy and I remember it happened to almost every episode of The Cosmos back when that was on. I'm not sure if I've ever seen it on another channel. All the examples I can think of are Fox shows.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

I have this happen too and its weird. Its random....but one today pissed me off

first the random one
I record Bait Car and AK State Troopers on Justice Network via a SP/1P. Both shows are set to stop 1 min after (as it runs 30 seconds after top/bottom of hour). Bait Car is from 6-6:30 & 6:30-7 and it will grab 2 tuners so for a minute 2 tuners are being used on 11-3. At 7:00 it hard cuts (missing the last minute) to start AK State Troopers. Happens every day

Now today I had 3 things set to record same time and a 4th to come in later. 
Hockey from 11:30-2:30 on NBC
Basketball from 12-2:30 on CBS
Nascar from 12-2:30 on FOX
Basketball from 2-4:30 on CW

First 3 had a 30 minute buffer added (which reflects in the times shown above). I realized that NASCAR was going to be done at 2 so I changed it to end "on time". Then realized it wasnt going to so I reset it to end "15 min after" and changed the basketball one to end "on time" as it was done before 2:00. This was done around 1:55 to 1:56PM

At 2:00 it switched the NASCAR timer to CW even though I said end 15 minutes later (the recording shows 2:15 but the last 15 minutes its blank). The basketball one on CBS stayed and even the open tuner was still on the last channel it was on. Bothered me as I missed the last couple minutes of NASCAR (sure it was just them talking but still). What bothered me even more is I had an open tuner and it didnt switch that one (no I wasn't on that tuner at the time. I was on FOX)


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> For some reason I see it a lot on Fox. In particular I tend to see it a lot on The Mindy Project, which is on from 9:30-10:00 but I've also seen it on Family Guy and I remember it happened to almost every episode of The Cosmos back when that was on. I'm not sure if I've ever seen it on another channel. All the examples I can think of are Fox shows.


I don't need any padding on Fox shows so I have not seen it with them.. I have a couple of shows on Discovery that I pad that I've seen it on.


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## philt56 (Aug 22, 2008)

I had the SNL anniversary show scheduled and added 30 minutes to it. When I added the padding it was originally running until 10:00. Then the network changed to run until 10:30, not sure if I lost the padding when the happened or if it was due to the overlap with the recording of the news afterwards? The new start time got changed to 10:30 when SNL changed its end time. I think I'm still on the 20.4.5


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## mike3775 (Jan 3, 2003)

I have found that when my shows do not have the padded time in them, I have had to adjust to the fact that my Tivo box time may not be the same as what the cable company channel start/end time is. (I know it sounds confusing)

I observed last night that King of the Hill on Cartoon Network which is supposed to start at 7:30pm actually started at 7:29pm on the Tivo box and ended at 7:59pm not 8:00pm. That happens quite a bit around my house, so I set all my season..err one passes to start 2 minutes early and run over a few minutes as well, because for some strange reason, the times for the Tivo box and the networks are off by up to a minute


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## WorldBandRadio (Dec 20, 2010)

WorldBandRadio said:


> Whoa, methinks that may be significant (or not, to be determined). Most of my "-1 padding" issues have been occurring in that time frame.
> 
> Thanks, I'll be looking more closely for that symptom here.


Just had the issue again. And again, it was the 9:30 to 10:00PM timeslot with four tuners active.

The channel with the issue was TBS.


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## yawitz (Apr 2, 2007)

Adding my voice to the chorus (as it occurred again for me tonight):

I'm seeing the same problem as the OP: I pad a show by a minute at the start and end, the recording adds the minute to the start, but not the end. I also see the 1-minute gap at the end of the playback bar (i.e. the bar is 1:02 long, but there is what I take to be a 1-minute gap at the end of the green bar).

I've checked, and there were still tuners available judging by the scheduled recordings, so clipping shouldn't have occurred. (I have a 6-tuner Roamio). Even if it did, wouldn't the recording be shown as "partial"? I suppose it's possible that some of the tuners were occupied by suggested recordings, but I can't easily verify that. (I don't see any suggested recordings that occurred at the same time as the scheduled recordings.)

In my case, the following shows weren't on the same channel, so the hypothesis of Am_I_Evil (post #7) doesn't seem to apply here. However, the show in question *did* occur from 9-10pm, similar to what was reported by Dan203. Curious. (Channel was TNTHD, but problem wasn't always on this channel for me. Can't remember what times the previous failures occurred.)


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## Am_I_Evil (Apr 7, 2009)

i really hope this is one of the bug fixes in 20.5.9...can't believe this is still on-going...


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

This happens almost all the time on my back to back recordings on the same channel.


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## worachj (Oct 14, 2006)

It happens on my back to back recordings too. Sometimes I can get it to work correctly for a week or less by moving one the shows to a higher or lower spot in the Season pass manger. Resorting sometimes works but eventually it always reverts back no padding at the end.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

morac said:


> This happens almost all the time on my back to back recordings on the same channel.


It's completely random in my experience. We record four shows on Sunday night that are back to back (on HGTV) and they always get the padding. I've seen it happen but it's not very often in other words.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

slowbiscuit said:


> It's completely random in my experience. We record four shows on Sunday night that are back to back (on HGTV) and they always get the padding. I've seen it happen but it's not very often in other words.


I've never had it happen if there wasn't another show scheduled to record after the current one. In my case it tends to affect the same shows week after week.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

I just quickly skimmed this old thread. I've never seen this problem, and I've been padding virtually every recording for years. It's possible that I just never noticed. I was also thinking that the fact that I pad both the beginning and the end of every recording may be why the problem hasn't affected me. Because of my OCD, I trend to pad every show -1/+2.


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## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

morac said:


> I've never had it happen if there wasn't another show scheduled to record after the current one. In my case it tends to affect the same shows week after week.


I have this problem on the The Goldbergs. I pad it by a minute and it never works. I see 31 but it only shows 30.

Now I have a One Pass for Modern Family which follows The Goldbergs on ABC. However, I've had the missing one minute of padding happen even when Modern Family doesn't record because it's a repeat.

This has been annoying me as I typically miss that last few seconds of the show including that last joke. If I increase my padding to 5 or 10 minutes, do you think the padding will work?

Editing to add that I pad Brooklyn 99 by 2 minutes and that one works every week even though I have The Grinder right after it.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

NYHeel said:


> This has been annoying me as I typically miss that last few seconds of the show including that last joke. If I increase my padding to 5 or 10 minutes, do you think the padding will work?


I've found that padding by 5 minutes works. Sometimes I can then change padding back to 1 or 2 minutes and it will still work (for a while).


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

morac said:


> I've found that padding by 5 minutes works. Sometimes I can then change padding back to 1 or 2 minutes and it will still work (for a while).


Have you tried padding before the show as well? If so, did this have any affect?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I've seen it happen pretty regularly on shows which had nothing recording after them at all, so it doesn't seem to require recordings being back to back.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

gweempose said:


> Have you tried padding before the show as well? If so, did this have any affect?


I don't think I ever tried that since I don't really care about pre-show padding. I do know setting padding to 5 minutes extra does work.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10348925#post10348925


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## zerdian1 (Apr 19, 2015)

I had asked TiVo and they say it is not necessary to do any padding on TiVo.

I used the default numbers from my DISH NETWORK DVRs and Hoppers.

I Pad all shows 1 MIN EARLY and 3 MIN LATE.
It has been working for me.

This works for most network shows.

But on my wife's Telenovelas on the Brazil Channel GLOBO this never seems to work right.
I have one show set of timers with padding of 30-30 minutes on front and back and that catches most shows. Even the erratic schedule times change during the airing of shows from the predicted schedule (the predicted schedule is what drives the TiVo Timers).

Then I use a second set of timers as back for her shows.
But I also have to Block record in 3 hour blocks from 5PM to 5AM.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I pad virtually all shows, and see this _once in a while_. Never enough to figure out anything from the particular pattern of channels being recorded.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

I've never seen this caused by TiVo myself, but I have seen it when network programmers are stunting by changing the start and/or end times of a broadcast to keep us from changing channels. Often the changes do not get into guide data soon enough for TiVo to record correctly and TiVo will miss the last minute. In addition, some channels don't keep the schedule exactly, particularly for late-night repeats. I remember the post-midnight repeat showings of "Eureka" would start late by several minutes. About that time I started padding one minute on the front and three minutes at the back. Now that Bolts have implemented forced clipping for overlaps less than five minutes I have changed my practice to one and four in anticipation of migrating to the Bolt Pro.

If you have an overlap, it is of no help to have a one minute overlap instead of a four minute overlap, unless you are clipping, and I really hate clipping.


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## zerdian1 (Apr 19, 2015)

MY Pros record the padding, so far.
maybe I will change it to 5 and 5 instead of my 1 and 3 that I have been using for over a decade.
Or do I have to go to 6 and 6?


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

It has nothing to do with network scheduling and everything to do with Tivo not padding correctly for some shows.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

The nice thing about padding before the show is that SkipMode now allows you to jump straight to the beginning of the show.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

ej42137 said:


> I've never seen this caused by TiVo myself, but I have seen it when network programmers are stunting by changing the start and/or end times of a broadcast to keep us from changing channels. Often the changes do not get into guide data soon enough for TiVo to record correctly and TiVo will miss the last minute.


That's not AT ALL what we're talking about.


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