# LA area - if you are expecting a HR10-250 beware!



## rrr22777 (Jul 31, 2002)

I had the installation scheduled for the HR10-250 today. I made the appointment before the HR20-**** came out. The installer came today - all he had were there HR20-****'s.. After using this thing for 10 minutes its obvious its crap and after multiple calls to account retention all they have to say is I am in the test area so all they allow is the HR20's.

If you are expecting a HR10 good luck getting one.


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## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

A threat to cancel usually gets what you want, depending on how you've been a customer, and how much you pay monthly.


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## ayrton911 (Sep 4, 2000)

rrr22777 said:


> I had the installation scheduled for the HR10-250 today. I made the appointment before the HR20-**** came out. The installer came today - all he had were there HR20-****'s.. After using this thing for 10 minutes its obvious its crap and after multiple calls to account retention all they have to say is I am in the test area so all they allow is the HR20's.
> 
> If you are expecting a HR10 good luck getting one.


Well, you have the future of DirecTV. You'll be able to get all the future MPEG 4 channels that those of us with the HR10 can't.

Give it a try a while. I know many people think the HR20 is a decent machine.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

If you only played with it for 10 minutes then it probably hasn't updated to the latest software yet.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

> Well, you have the future of DirecTV. You'll be able to get all the future MPEG 4 channels that those of us with the HR10 can't.


Aside from mpeg4 locals (all four of them) and RSNs, that future looks pretty bleak from where I sit. I currently get a total of 14 HD locals via my OTA antennas. Actually, it's more like 12 since a couple of the channels are not being picked up and may require some additional aiming of the antenna for them to come in, but they're available if I want them (they're actually redundant to channels I do receive so it's pretty much a moot point anyway). Did I mention that I already get the national CBS feed in HD since my local CBS affiliate is owned and operated by CBS? This reduces the number of viable mpeg4 locals from four to three, at least as long as the national HD network feeds remain in mpeg2.

The question I pose to DTV is this - "Is that all you've got?" I currently have mpeg4 locals in my area but ironically DTV has never notified me that they are available. You'd think they'd be knocking down my door to get me to make the switch. I guess when they see that I have three HDTivos on my account that they realize I'd be a waste of their time.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

HiDefGator said:


> If you only played with it for 10 minutes then it probably hasn't updated to the latest software yet.


It is a little scary, though, that one could be that quickly and thoroughly underwhelmed by orientation to a new product. Maybe it deserves a little closer look, or at least a little more patience and an open mind (not that your's isn't, rrr22777  ).

Moving from DISH PVRs, with their snappy and familiar interface and RF remotes to pokey but reliable Tivo with IR remotes was at first a little frustrating for me. I got over that fairly quickly, once I understood how much better Tivo really is.


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## DTVPro (Jun 24, 2005)

the simple fact is that many people here are just blind or totally accustomed to the tivo's shortcomings.


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## ShiningBengal (Mar 19, 2001)

DTVPro said:


> the simple fact is that many people here are just blind or totally accustomed to the tivo's shortcomings.


I very much doubt that any one visiting this forum is "blind" to TiVo's shortcomings. It is not a perfect product by any means.

However, it is IMHO better than anything else I've seen or reviewed on line, certainly including the HR20.

Virtues of the HR20

1) It requires only 1 line from the dish

OK. What do I do with the one I alread have feeding the HR10? Yank it out of the wall and sell if for surplus?

2) It has a 90 minute buffer

Sorry--two 30 minute buffers is much preferable. Anyone who uses the HR10 knows a single buffer is a huge shortcoming

3) It has a tiny little picture you can watch while you're channel surfing.

I don't channel surf. That's why I have TiVo's

4) It receives MPEG4 channels

And what channels might they be? I already get ALL my locals OTA (not just 4), and the HDTV PQ is certainly better than MPEG4.

5) It has wish lists

No, it has a wish list that it might someday have a wish list.

6) It has a USB port

For what?

7) It is faster.

Why is this important? What will you do with the time you "save"?

There are probably more "features" but unless you will use them, they are not benefits. On balance, I would lose much of what I want in a DVR, and gaining some things that really aren't import to me.

I am not "blind" to TiVo's shortcomings. But as far as the HR20, show me the beef!

I may someday have to give up my two HR10-250's. But that day isn't yet, and when it does arrive, I will have to look at all my other options, including going to cable. TiVo is the primary reason I hooked up with DirecTV in the first place.


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## mikeny (Dec 22, 2004)

ShiningBengal said:


> Virtues of the HR20
> 
> 1) It requires only 1 line from the dish


You still need 2 this time to the HR20



ShiningBengal said:


> 4) It receives MPEG4 channels
> 
> And what channels might they be? I already get ALL my locals OTA (not just 4), and the HDTV PQ is certainly better than MPEG4.


Announced mpeg-4 RSN: (not sure if it was launched)
Minneapolis: FSN North
Part Time: MLB - TWINS , NHL - WILD , NBA - T-WOLVES


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## GlennD (Oct 28, 2004)

Last weekend the Costco in Fullerton still had a stack of 10-250's. I have not been there this week.


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## teasip (Aug 24, 2002)

Sounds an awful lot like the DVR that I have with my Verizon FiOS.


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## purple6816 (May 27, 2003)

My brother lives in LA and he just ordered a new tivo and got a hr10. He did not even ask.


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## rrr22777 (Jul 31, 2002)

GlennD said:


> Last weekend the Costco in Fullerton still had a stack of 10-250's. I have not been there this week.


Happen to know what the price was? After using this for 1 day I am ready to give my left b*ll if could get a HR10-250.


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## rrr22777 (Jul 31, 2002)

TyroneShoes said:


> It is a little scary, though, that one could be that quickly and thoroughly underwhelmed by orientation to a new product. Maybe it deserves a little closer look, or at least a little more patience and an open mind (not that your's isn't, rrr22777  ).
> 
> Moving from DISH PVRs, with their snappy and familiar interface and RF remotes to pokey but reliable Tivo with IR remotes was at first a little frustrating for me. I got over that fairly quickly, once I understood how much better Tivo really is.


I also used to have the Dish PVR. Using it and suffering thru reboots, missed recordings caused be to buy my first Tivo in 2002. HR20 seems to have atleast one of the same virtues... it locked up once on me and I had to power if off to reset it.


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## gregftlaud (Jun 16, 2004)

so i guess there was just no way dtv could upgrade the hr10-250's software to be able to handle mpeg4 signals eh?

i'm curious though. i've read in the dbs forum i think earl said dtv is to continue it's contract with tivo until 2010. but i'm a bit confused. since they are upgrading to mpeg4 and handing out a new dtv hd dvr that doesnt use tivo software what exactly will they be doing for tivo other than paying them money? wont all of the markets be upgraded long before 2010 and our hr10's effectively be obsolete and wont work? esp for those of us who sub to the nfl sunday ticket superfan pack and hd package b/c i'm sure by 2010 those all will be switched over to the mpeg4 format.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

gregftlaud said:


> so i guess there was just no way dtv could upgrade the hr10-250's software to be able to handle mpeg4 signals eh?.


The MPEG-2 decoding is done in hardware; even if that section could get upgraded firmware and be able to decode MPEG-4 streams there's more to it than just MPEG-2 vs. MPEG-4. The signal itself from the Ka-band satellites is being modulated differently (8PSK instead of QPSK), and that part of the HR10-250 definitely cannot be updated. Finally, there's more bandwidth from each Ka-band satellikte and the tuner of the HR10-250 cannot accommodate tuning a wider frequency range, so a completely different multiswitch would be required that would downconvert the Ka-band satellite signal differently than the Ka-band capable multiswitch currently being used is doing it.

So there's no practical way it could ever happen.


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## gregftlaud (Jun 16, 2004)

then why is dtv even going to continue it's relationship with tivo until 2010 if the hr10-250 will be obsolete way before then? only because it means they wont be sued by tivo for patent rights?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

gregftlaud said:


> then why is dtv even going to continue it's relationship with tivo until 2010 if the hr10-250 will be obsolete way before then? only because it means they wont be sued by tivo for patent rights?


There's some 3,000,000 DirecTV DVR w/TiVo units out there now and those aren't going anywhere anytime soon.


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## kcmurphy88 (Jul 5, 2003)

rrr22777 said:


> I had the installation scheduled for the HR10-250 today. I made the appointment before the HR20-**** came out. The installer came today - all he had were there HR20-****'s.. After using this thing for 10 minutes its obvious its crap and after multiple calls to account retention all they have to say is I am in the test area so all they allow is the HR20's.
> 
> If you are expecting a HR10 good luck getting one.


Just go down to any BB or CC and get one that way. They've got plenty.


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## kcmurphy88 (Jul 5, 2003)

gregftlaud said:


> then why is dtv even going to continue it's relationship with tivo until 2010 if the hr10-250 will be obsolete way before then? only because it means they wont be sued by tivo for patent rights?


Short answer: yes.

Longer answer: Customer retention, Series 3, digital cable and FIOS. It may even be that TiVo remains Plan B for the new boxes.


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## SledgeHammer! (Mar 7, 2006)

rrr22777 said:


> I had the installation scheduled for the HR10-250 today. I made the appointment before the HR20-**** came out. The installer came today - all he had were there HR20-****'s.. After using this thing for 10 minutes its obvious its crap and after multiple calls to account retention all they have to say is I am in the test area so all they allow is the HR20's.
> 
> If you are expecting a HR10 good luck getting one.


Why wouldnt you just go and buy one ahead of time? DirecTV installers usually show up with a "take whatever crap my company gave me" attitude. Thats why when I got my dish installed 3 or 4 yrs ago, I bought ALL the equipment ahead of time (dish, multi-switch, IRDs) and told the guy EXACTLY how I wanted it installed (I would have done the install myself, but I was uneasy about climbing on a tall 2 story roof). In fact, I even pre-assembled the dish and pre-ran all the cables.

And even THEN the guy f*cked it up. I have the 18x24 triple LNB dish, so there are 5 wires coming off of it, which get combined to 4. So basically his job was to put the dish on my roof and run 4 cables 10 feet into my attic where I was going to take it over. He showed up with 2 10ft ladders DUCT-TAPED together (SERIOUSLY) and ended up driving staples through 2 of the 4 wires shorting them out. I had to call him back 3 times before he finally wrapped up the job. Only thing good I can say about the guy is that he did me a favor and used some paint I had to paint the black cables to match the rafters. And he kept cancelling for stupid reasons (a friend borrowed my big ladder, it wont fit in my truck, etc).

When I finally buy a HD set (if I ever do), I'm just going to buy the HR10-250 and sub it over the web site myself.

As another poster says, the HR20 is a joke right now... half of it is not even functional. I dont care much about the USB ports, but a single live buffer? I use my double live buffer on my Sony SAT-T60 like a BANSHEE... and MPEG4? great... except they dont have any channels in MPEG4 that are worth it or otherwise. My locals are in MPEG2 (LA) which incidently, they wont let me pay them money for anymore. So I'm going to go OTA instead.

I dont sub to any of the movie channels or sports packages, so ... oh well.

Yeah, the HR10-250 is slow as hell from what I read, maybe one day they'll deliver the 6.3 update, but I doubt it... considering last year the directv.com program guide was broken for SIX MONTHS (and I called to complain about it weekly)... and the new program guide that put up a month or two ago, is again broken and non-functional. I sent one email to them and saw a repeat of the 6 month thing was going to happen, so I lost interest.

After some heavy rain last year, I had to get my dish re-aimed. They sent a crew of 3 mexican guys who spent the whole install swearing and talking about how much one of them was going to get laid that weekend. He kept telling me how a signal strength of 70 was "good enough" and that I didn't need the C sat at all. In fact, I came into the room with in 2 seconds of stopping the guy from doing a "Clear and Delete All" cuz he thought that would fix the signal strength issue.


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## gregftlaud (Jun 16, 2004)

but even the regular dtv dvr's (non hd)....wont they also become obsolete being that dtv is switching over to mpeg4 within the next couple of years? or will some channels always be sent in mpeg2?


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## rrr22777 (Jul 31, 2002)

SledgeHammer! said:


> Why wouldnt you just go and buy one ahead of time? ....


Because they offered the HR10-250 for free if I signed up for NFL Sunday Ticket. Well it ended up being a HR20 for free.


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## rrr22777 (Jul 31, 2002)

gregftlaud said:


> but even the regular dtv dvr's (non hd)....wont they also become obsolete being that dtv is switching over to mpeg4 within the next couple of years? or will some channels always be sent in mpeg2?


No because the mpeg2.. mpeg4 stuff only applies to HD.


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## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

EVENTUALLY, everything is supposed to be in MPEG-4. Give it probably about 10 years, and then there probably won't be any SD pogramming anymore anyway.


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## rrr22777 (Jul 31, 2002)

dswallow said:


> There's some 3,000,000 DirecTV DVR w/TiVo units out there now and those aren't going anywhere anytime soon.


Any idea how many of these are the HR10-250's?


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

rrr22777,

You pay shipping on both units and I'll swap you my HR10-250 for your HR20. Send me a PM.


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## Sparky (Dec 16, 2001)

rrr22777 said:


> Any idea how many of these are the HR10-250's?


greater than 95% The HR20 has just released in LA.


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## rrr22777 (Jul 31, 2002)

Billy66 said:


> rrr22777,
> 
> You pay shipping on both units and I'll swap you my HR10-250 for your HR20. Send me a PM.


Thank you for the offer. Sorry but the HR20 I have is a leased unit so I have to send it back to Directv.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

They had 3 or 4 250's at the best buy I went to this weekend. Maybe you could make some deal with D* to send back the 20, and buy a 250 and have them refund you for it.

If they promised you a 250, you should get a 250, unless there was something in small writing about availability.

-smak-


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## thedeak08 (Jul 21, 2006)

Here is my suggestion. If you want to make sure you never lose access to your HR10, you should make a backup image of the hard drive and save it on your computer. That was if it ever fail, and most of these that do fail are because of the hard drive, you can just get another hard drive, restore the image and pop it in the HR10. 

I don't care for the Tivo-less DVRs at all, which the HR20 is. I'm sure that when the HR20 is readily available nationwide, if your HR10 goes out and you get a replacement, they will be bringing an HR20. Just my opinion, but I'm staying safe with this one.


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## tennisbum (Nov 3, 2004)

I am confused now. Is the HR20 TiVo based?


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## rrr22777 (Jul 31, 2002)

tennisbum said:


> I am confused now. Is the HR20 TiVo based?


No.


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