# Ex-Dish Marketing Chief Hops Over To TiVo



## bayern_fan (Aug 12, 2013)

"Ira Bahr, the former Dish Network exec who oversaw the product planning and marketing for the satellite TV giants Hopper whole-home HD-DVR, has been hired as the chief marketing officer of DVR pioneer TiVo..."

http://www.multichannel.com/technology/ex-dish-marketing-chief-hops-over-tivo/148766


----------



## celtic pride (Nov 8, 2005)

I think this could be good for tivo! Hopefully we'll start seeing commercials on tv for the tivo roamio, Just like we saw and continue to see commercials about DISH HOPPER !TIVO really needs to get more people interested in tivo. But they really need to make it more affordable.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

In bigger news, Tivo has a marketing department?


----------



## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> In bigger news, Tivo has a marketing department?


It does now!


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

celtic pride said:


> I think this could be good for tivo! Hopefully we'll start seeing commercials on tv for the tivo roamio, Just like we saw and continue to see commercials about DISH HOPPER !TIVO really needs to get more people interested in tivo. But they really need to make it more affordable.


I find it strange that the people in the Hopper commercials "HOPPA!!!" are clearly from New York, and yet DISH doesn't compete in the NYC DMA and all of CT because they don't carry YES and SNY.

Maybe they figure it's offensive enough that they will offend the people who talk like the ones in the ad, but it doesn't matter because they are from NY and can't get a complete lineup with DISH anyways.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Darn, I wish he were more than just marketing! The Hopper's features (mostly auto-skipping commercials, since I realize PTA is largely dependent upon all of the networks being on one transponder on satellite) are one of the few things that seems GREATLY better than Tivo.


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I thought I heard somewhere that Dish was back-peddling on the auto commercial skip due to backlash from advertisers. 
That could just be in my head, also. 

Even if that isn't the case, I don't think TiVo will ever have an auto skip feature for fear of backlash from advertisers.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Bigg said:


> I find it strange that the people in the Hopper commercials "HOPPA!!!" are clearly from New York, and yet DISH doesn't compete in the NYC DMA and all of CT because they don't carry YES and SNY.
> 
> Maybe they figure it's offensive enough that they will offend the people who talk like the ones in the ad, but it doesn't matter because they are from NY and can't get a complete lineup with DISH anyways.


Maybe you're talking about a different commercial, but in the one I've seen it's Boston accents.


----------



## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

mattack said:


> Darn, I wish he were more than just marketing! The Hopper's features (mostly auto-skipping commercials, since I realize PTA is largely dependent upon all of the networks being on one transponder on satellite) are one of the few things that seems GREATLY better than Tivo.


The Auto-Hop has resulted in numerous lawsuits against DISH from the various networks. In a recent deal with ABC, DISH is allowed to offer ESPN and ABC networks feeds over the internet directly. As part of the deal, DISH agreed to disable auto-hop for ABC networks.

Replay TV tried it years ago and was sued into oblivion. DISH is trying it now and also dealing with lawsuits. I wonder if DISH's intent this whole time was to use auto-hop as bargaining chip for broader network negotiations. It was obviously a valuable concession to convince ABC to let DISH offer access to ESPN and ABC over IP.

Tivo is not going to offer an auto-hop feature until the DISH lawsuits play out. Even then, Tivo is ultimately trying to cozy up to the MSO's, so honestly, an automatic commercial skipping feature on a Tivo is a pipe dream.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

hope this guy wasn't involved with dish's brilliant $320 million move to buy blockbuster...


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

cherry ghost said:


> Maybe you're talking about a different commercial, but in the one I've seen it's Boston accents.


I've seen the one with the two people on the couch. That's definitely New York, not Boston. Probably Lawn Guyland.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

tatergator1 said:


> The Auto-Hop has resulted in numerous lawsuits against DISH from the various networks. In a recent deal with ABC, DISH is allowed to offer ESPN and ABC networks feeds over the internet directly. As part of the deal, DISH agreed to disable auto-hop for ABC networks.


*FOR THREE DAYS*


----------



## RusRus (Apr 8, 2013)

mattack said:


> Darn, I wish he were more than just marketing! The Hopper's features (mostly auto-skipping commercials, since I realize PTA is largely dependent upon all of the networks being on one transponder on satellite) are one of the few things that seems GREATLY better than Tivo.


I may be wrong but don't we have skip forward with Tivo??? Sure, we have to do it 30 seconds at a time but isn't the result the same????


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

RusRus said:


> I may be wrong but don't we have skip forward with Tivo??? Sure, we have to do it 30 seconds at a time but isn't the result the same????


The difference is the skip forward in a Tivo is manual, while the Dish Hopper requires no human intervention.
It's the automatic nature of the feature that is causing the uproar.


----------



## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

steve614 said:


> The difference is the skip forward in a Tivo is manual, while the Dish Hopper requires no human intervention.
> It's the automatic nature of the feature that is causing the uproar.


I assume Dish has this feature turned on by default, which is probably what the lawsuit is about. But if TiVo were to implement this as an extra opt-in feature that can only be turned on by the end user, I really don't see any legal problem to it.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Heck, I had a VCR (*V*ideo *C*assette *R*ecorder for you young whippersnappers) that automatically skipped commercials...didn't always work perfectly, but it was nice when it did.


----------



## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

Educating Consumer on TiVo's Functionality Will Be One of CMO's First Priorities

http://adage.com/article/cmo-strategy/tivo-seeks-prove-matters/292487/


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

TiVo does need to market more. But I don't agree with his assessment of seeing TiVo just as a DVR. TiVo is a DVR. A WAY better DVR. Everything else it does is done better by another device and highly commoditized. But as a DVR, TiVo is WAY better than anything else out there.


----------



## jlin (Nov 20, 1999)

Bigg said:


> TiVo does need to market more. But I don't agree with his assessment of seeing TiVo just as a DVR. TiVo is a DVR. A WAY better DVR. Everything else it does is done better by another device and highly commoditized. But as a DVR, TiVo is WAY better than anything else out there.


I have both Roamino and Dish Hopper.. Hopper is WAY better than Roamino with its auto-hop feature and quick-add-on for ANY external hard drive.


----------



## jlin (Nov 20, 1999)

Bigg said:


> TiVo does need to market more. But I don't agree with his assessment of seeing TiVo just as a DVR. TiVo is a DVR. A WAY better DVR. Everything else it does is done better by another device and highly commoditized. But as a DVR, TiVo is WAY better than anything else out there.


I have both Roamino and Dish Hopper.. Hopper is WAY better than Roamino with its auto-hop feature and quick-add-on for ANY external hard drive.


----------



## twylie (Apr 6, 2014)

IMO, the big feature/function items they need to tout are:

4 or 6 tuners
ability to work with existing cable providers
superior interface
ability to control which channels are shown and navigated
better navigation while watching recorded programs - skip, rewind, etc.
streaming and downloading to iOS
use of 3rd party apps to download and archive recordings


----------



## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

twylie said:


> IMO, the big feature/function items they need to tout are:
> 
> 4 or 6 tuners
> ability to work with existing cable providers
> ...


TiVo not going to promote the last item on your list because that call stealing in some circles.


----------



## twylie (Apr 6, 2014)

Johncv said:


> TiVo not going to promote the last item on your list because that call stealing in some circles.


yeah, that one may have been a stretch, but their own Desktop Plus offers somewhat similar functionality:

Transferring shows to your PC

If you record a show on your TiVo box, you can easily play it back on your PC or laptop.

I am very impressed with cTiVo for the Mac and plan on using it for OTA recordings. This functionality really cuts into the argument against network available torrents IMO. I completely understand why the content creators are against it, but when I look at the media options available to me for a sunk cost of $650 (Roamio + lifetime + OTA antenna), I shake my head at paying Comcast $100+ a month for the last 20 years.

I'm fine with network programming, but the real opportunity for TiVo seems to be people that hate renting inferior DVR's for $18 a month per TV from their cablecos.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Johncv said:


> TiVo not going to promote the last item on your list because that call stealing in some circles.


I agree they probably won't promote it, but they had to deal with the CableCard group to even allow it... and plenty of recordings/channels are disallowed from copying... So unless you transfer the recordings to other people... I have no idea how this is considered stealing, and I am a very big copyright rights enforcement person.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Content providers don't like archiving at all. They're sorta OK with time shifting and place shifting, but for archiving they'd much rather sell you the show on DVD/BD then for you to be able to make your own. There was a time when there was a proposal for a flag that would limit how long you could keep a recording on a DVR. Back in the old S2 days TiVo actually supported a special version of Macrovision that had limitations like that. It was kinda like renting from Amazon. The video would only stay on your TiVo for 30 days and once you started watching it you had 24-48 hours to finish before it was auto deleted. Luckily that never caught on, and when something similar was purposed for digital the EFF fought against it and won. (google "broadcast flag")

I think part of the push for cloud DVRs is so that the providers can have more control. They can prevent archiving, limit or disable trick play, and maybe even do custom ad insertion. All bad things for consumers hidden in the guise of convenience.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

NorthAlabama said:


> hope this guy wasn't involved with dish's brilliant $320 million move to buy blockbuster...


They got that for a steal. Wasn't it worth more than what they paid for it in the bankruptcy auction?


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

aaronwt said:


> They got that for a steal. Wasn't it worth more than what they paid for it in the bankruptcy auction?


was the goal when dish purchased blockbuster to sell at auction for a profit or write-off losses?


> "Blockbuster will complement our existing video offerings while presenting cross-marketing and service extension opportunities for Dish Network," Tom Cullen, executive vice president of sales, marketing and programing for Dish Network, told Reuters.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

jlin said:


> I have both Roamino and Dish Hopper.. Hopper is WAY better than Roamino with its auto-hop feature and quick-add-on for ANY external hard drive.


First of all, it's DISH and I live in CT, where DISH doesn't compete (due to lack of SNY and YES), but it's also not TiVo. Doesn't Auto-hop only work on network stuff? So that's only a small fraction of content... Plus, DISH's PQ sucks.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Dan203 said:


> Content providers don't like archiving at all.


I actually forgot to mention this in my reply before yours... The original lawsuit that makes home video recording legal in the first place actually only specifically allows time-shifting (but does not determine how long in time "time-shifting" is). That is, they specifically did NOT decide whether archiving (which they called "librarying") was legal or not. So that technically is even _legally_ an undecided area.

One of my first purchases on Amazon was an old book about that case.


----------



## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

Bigg said:


> First of all, it's DISH and I live in CT, where DISH doesn't compete (due to lack of SNY and YES), but it's also not TiVo. Doesn't Auto-hop only work on network stuff? So that's only a small fraction of content... Plus, DISH's PQ sucks.


Just like the f***ing Genie box on DrictTV.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

mattack said:


> I actually forgot to mention this in my reply before yours... The original lawsuit that makes home video recording legal in the first place actually only specifically allows time-shifting (but does not determine how long in time "time-shifting" is). That is, they specifically did NOT decide whether archiving (which they called "librarying") was legal or not. So that technically is even _legally_ an undecided area.
> 
> One of my first purchases on Amazon was an old book about that case.


Doesn't that make TiVo a grey area, since you can suck stuff off through TiVo Desktop?

Although by that logic, a VCR is in jeopardy, since you could build a library with actual, physical shelves, full of VHS cassettes...



Johncv said:


> Just like the f***ing Genie box on DrictTV.


??? DirecTV has all the sports channels, unlike DISH, and their PQ is way better than pretty much anything except FIOS.

If CableCard disappeared tomorrow, I'd switch to DirecTV faster than Comcast could blink!


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Bigg said:


> Doesn't that make TiVo a grey area, since you can suck stuff off through TiVo Desktop?
> 
> Although by that logic, a VCR is in jeopardy, since you could build a library with actual, physical shelves, full of VHS cassettes...


Yes, you're right, that's specifically my point.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

mattack said:


> Yes, you're right, that's specifically my point.


Hmmmm. Interesting thought.


----------

