# DirecTiVo woes: TiVo hardware failing?



## jpk (Jan 3, 2007)

About a year ago, one of my DirecTiVos (40gb Series 2, about 5 years old) said Sat 2 input was flaky. Signal strength was OK, 70 to 90 varying by transponders, but signal strength on Sat 2 went to zero every few seconds, on almost all transponders. Picture/sound went out correspondingly. I switched cables, problem stayed with the Sat 2 input on the box, I concluded that my tuner on that box was going.

Now I'm not so sure.

A few weeks ago, my other DirecTiVo box (160gb Series 2, about 3 years old) started to show the same picture/sound problems. A little analysis showed its Sat 2 input was also going to zero every few seconds, but only on some transponders. Not surprisingly, the channels with picture/sound problems were on those transponders, e.g. transponder 17 and channel 249 Comedy Central. Again, signal strengths are 70 to 90.

So it started to look suspicious that both boxes were failing in a similar way. I started to suspect the multiswitch or LBN.

Cables look good, I've reseated them repeatedly, and the problem doesn't follow the cable on either box.

I have also just bought over eBay another 3x4 multiswitch and dual LBN for my 18" round dish. They arrive in a week or so, and the saga continues.

But here's the thing: is it a known problem that the tuner on Sat 2 input fails over time on Hughes Series 2 DirecTiVo units?

Thanks!

-- Jon


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

What video outputs are you using? Some units have the tuner 2 problem when using the s-video outputs. Try the composite outputs. Is it still tuner 2 when you swap the sat inputs?


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## jpk (Jan 3, 2007)

I'm using s-video output on both boxes.

I would never have guessed in a million years that input problems could vary with outputs used.

I can try the composite out on one box (the other box connects to a TV with no composite input).

Yes, it's still tuner 2 when I swap the sat inputs. But I'm guessing the multiswitch may be complicating the debugging.

-- Jon


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## rbtravis (Aug 9, 2005)

http://www.ccscorporation.net/dss.htm


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## dtremain (Jan 5, 2004)

jpk said:


> I can try the composite out on one box (the other box connects to a TV with no composite input).


What TV is that? I've never heard of a TV that had S-Video but not composite.


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## jpk (Jan 3, 2007)

You're right, it has s-video and composite. I was reading "component". My bad.

And now that I realize that, I also realize that I don't want to go back to composite. So while I'll gladly do the test, this wouldn't be a good future for my viewing.


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## snickerrrrs (Mar 31, 2006)

A 5 year old hard drive is VERY old. Your drive will be failing soon, you need to replace it (most drives last a little over 3 years, maybe 4). The new Directv dvrs really suck so give your Directivo a new pacemaker. weaknees.com and dvrupgrade.com both have drives starting at $99.


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## jpk (Jan 3, 2007)

Over the years I have reformatted both disks (or as TiVo calls it, "clear and delete everything") which solved random reboot problems.

I'd love to upgrade to larger disks at this point.

But if my tuners are in fact failing, buying more disks for these boxes would be a big mistake. Right?


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## jpk (Jan 3, 2007)

Rbtravis, thanks for that link. Informative and entertaining.


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

jpk said:


> Over the years I have reformatted both disks (or as TiVo calls it, "clear and delete everything") which solved random reboot problems.
> 
> I'd love to upgrade to larger disks at this point.
> 
> But if my tuners are in fact failing, buying more disks for these boxes would be a big mistake. Right?


Chances are that you were having random reboot problems because you have bad sectors on the hard drive. Its likely that either your live TV buffer or a program you try to record is attempting to store some information on those bad sectors and from time to time, that will cause a system to reboot.

By doing a clear and delete everything (you are not really formatting the drive) you are just freeing up more space for the system to store its data and recorded material, so the chance of using those bad sectors is much less as more of the good space on your drive has been freed up.

It is also possible that its NOT the drive that is the problem, and perhaps you really do have a bad tuner, or a bad power supply, or ALL of the above.

If you are up to it, I'd recommend you pull your drive and run basic and advanced diagnostics on it, that will at least tell you whether you have an obvious problem with the hard drive(s) in the unit. A more definitive test to rule out the hard drive as the problem, would be to do a low-level format of the drive, but this is a destructive test, so you'd lose everything.

Beyond that, as RBTRAVIS mentioned, CCS is a known and reputable site for having your system repaired. They can definitely repair most anything you send to them and we highly recommend them.

Lou


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## jpk (Jan 3, 2007)

"Clear and delete everything" is deleting, not reformatting? OK, I'll bite: then why does it take eight hours? I could manually delete everything in half an hour.

In any case, the sat 2 signal drops problem remains. In a few days I'll be swapping LBN and multiswitch. If that doesn't solve the problem, would it be safe to conclude the TiVo hardware is failing, whether tuner, disk, power supply? Would it then make sense to invest money in repairing a 40gb SD TiVo? A 160gb SD TiVo? Would that money be better invested elsewhere?

Thanks again,

-- Jon


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## rbtravis (Aug 9, 2005)

Clear And delete everything does a sector by sector read and write to re-encript the hard disk to your motherboard. the bigger the disk, the longer it takes.


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## jpk (Jan 3, 2007)

I received the replacement multiswitch and LNB. Swapped the multiswitch; results no different. The LNB was mechanically incompatible with my dish; it won't mount.

I called DirecTV again. Last week a DirecTV CSR had offered to ship me a replacement dish at half price, meaning about $20 would get a new LNB that would definitely mount. I was ready to take them up on that. Today's CSR said that wasn't possible.

DirecTV offered a service call at $80 which would include a new dish if that was the problem, or a service plan which came to the same thing. They couldn't sell me the replacement part for their own system. They kept trying to refer me to third parties: I could pay $50 for a new dish from one such. If the problem did end up being the DirecTiVo, under no circumstances would they supply me with a replacement; it would be the DirecTV DVR. They kept implying that my dual LNB round 18" disk was obsolete.

I decided I am not investing another $50 and another self-install to debug their system. If they can't make it work, or if the only way to make it work is to give up the TiVo, there's little point in staying with DirecTV. I informed them of this: no, I am not spending another $80 on staying with you, I'm about $10 away from leaving you. The correct answer, I let them know, was to fix the problem without further fees or service commitments of any sort. If I have to pay more money, make a one-year commitment, and lose TiVo, I will be doing that with a competitor, not them. I'm an 11 year customer and I'm just underwhelmed with the support options offered and see little reason to stay.

That got me transfered to the DirecTV retention department. Suddenly a better offer was on the table: a tech will come out within days to diagnose and fix the problem, without fee or service commitment, and will supply and install a new dish if that was the problem. If the problem turns out to be the DirecTV, their offer will of course be the DirecTV DVR.

My take at this point is equipment that obsoletes or breaks within a few years is likely better rented than owned. If disks really fail on TiVos starting a little over three years, if tuners really fail within five, power supplies go, disk capacities become too small, it's hard to justify upfront costs if the vendor has a decent equipment upgrade program that approximates rental. It will be sad giving up the great TiVo user experience, but I can't get that integrated with DirecTV in particular or any DBS in general. So if DirecTV does identify my DirecTiVos as the problem, I'll probably swap my smaller DirecTiVo for the DirecTV DVR. That also saves the TiVo monthly fees, which are, I believe, about $12 a month.

If I've missed something I should be weighing in for this decision, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks,

-- Jon


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

rbtravis said:


> Clear And delete everything does a sector by sector read and write to re-encript the hard disk to your motherboard. the bigger the disk, the longer it takes.


it also destroys then recreates the MFS filesystem and database. And it's a huge honkin database.


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## vigfoot (Dec 1, 2003)

*I informed them of this: no, I am not spending another $80 on staying with you, I'm about $10 away from leaving you. The correct answer, I let them know, was to fix the problem without further fees or service commitments of any sort. If I have to pay more money, make a one-year commitment, and lose TiVo, I will be doing that with a competitor, not them. I'm an 11 year customer and I'm just underwhelmed with the support options offered and see little reason to stay.

That got me transfered to the DirecTV retention department. Suddenly a better offer was on the table: a tech will come out within days to diagnose and fix the problem, without fee or service commitment, and will supply and install a new dish if that was the problem.*

dang, i'm gonna try that. i've had a connection problem up on the roof for several months. i went up in feb and unscrewed the connectors, blew them dry, reconnected, and siliconed them, and all was good for about 3 weeks.

my options are to go up again, or pay DTV $80 to come out, or pay them $25 and commit to their repair program at $6/month.

by golly, i'm gonna give them a piece of my mind.


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## jpk (Jan 3, 2007)

OK, the DirecTV tech showed up, checked signal strengths and cable connections, and told me it must be the LNB. He replaced the dish which included a new LNB and confidently told me the problem was solved. He wouldn't stay long enough for an adequate test. After he left, I determined the problem was not solved. Signal strengths are little higher, probably due to aiming, but the same problem: the first DirecTiVo is pixelating on 229 and 249 on sat 2, and the second DirecTiVo is completely losing signal on those channels and some others.

So we've now swapped out the LNB, the multiswitch, and the cables are deemed OK. That leaves the DirecTiVo.

What should I try next? Use composite and see if the problem goes away? If so, what does that tell me?

Thanks,

-- Jon


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## rbtravis (Aug 9, 2005)

Disconnect the S-Video, use only the red white and yellow RCA plugs.


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## FlWingNut (Mar 4, 2005)

I had a similar problem a few months ago. Swapped s-vid to composite and it helped for a while. Turned out the main problem was a bad diplexer. Replaced the diplexer and one cable leading to it, and all was well.


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## tzikeh (Jun 6, 2003)

jpk said:


> A little analysis showed its Sat 2 input was also going to zero every few seconds, but only on some transponders. Not surprisingly, the channels with picture/sound problems were on those transponders, e.g. transponder 17 and channel 249 Comedy Central.


How do you find out which transponder a channel is on, and how do you find out which transponders are on Sat 2? This may have something to do with a problem I'm experiencing....


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## rbtravis (Aug 9, 2005)

tzikeh said:


> How do you find out which transponder a channel is on, and how do you find out which transponders are on Sat 2? This may have something to do with a problem I'm experiencing....


http://www.tivofan.com/directv/channels.html


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## jpk (Jan 3, 2007)

OK, I'll bite: what's a diplexer? And how do I replace it?

Thanks!

-- Jon


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## randywdtivo (Jun 12, 2004)

Have had the "tuner 2" problem for a while - finally decided to try to do something about it. Installed the hard drive in another SD40 which wasn't being used, and it worked OK (no surprise). But realized I would have to do a "delete and clear all" so I tried the original motherboard and hard drive with the other power supply. Thought the even/odd transponder voltage may have been flaky (but why only on tuner 2?). Still had the tuner 2 problem. So for now I have the s-video unplugged and it works well. The satellite signal test now is solid on both tuners. Hoping someone can figure out what is going on with this -- it's very hard to explain why the s-video connection would affect a tuner -- and always tuner 2...


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## rbtravis (Aug 9, 2005)

randywdtivo said:


> Have had the "tuner 2" problem for a while - finally decided to try to do something about it. Installed the hard drive in another SD40 which wasn't being used, and it worked OK (no surprise). But realized I would have to do a "delete and clear all" so I tried the original motherboard and hard drive with the other power supply. Thought the even/odd transponder voltage may have been flaky (but why only on tuner 2?). Still had the tuner 2 problem. So for now I have the s-video unplugged and it works well. The satellite signal test now is solid on both tuners. Hoping someone can figure out what is going on with this -- it's very hard to explain why the s-video connection would affect a tuner -- and always tuner 2...


Poor design, just use the red,white and yellow cables. some monitors(tv) draw too much power.


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## randywdtivo (Jun 12, 2004)

rbtravis said:


> Poor design, just use the red,white and yellow cables. some monitors(tv) draw too much power.


Actually, the composite and s-video outputs do not output any "power", just video data. The s-video output has just Intensity (Luminance) and Color (Chrominance) outputs, and there is no obvious reason that using them should have any affect on the satellite inputs. It's possible that some sort of interference is messing up the tuner 2 input when s-video is used.


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## rbtravis (Aug 9, 2005)

randywdtivo said:


> Actually, the composite and s-video outputs do not output any "power", just video data. The s-video output has just Intensity (Luminance) and Color (Chrominance) outputs, and there is no obvious reason that using them should have any affect on the satellite inputs. It's possible that some sort of interference is messing up the tuner 2 input when s-video is used.


Should a Input be connected to a output? If the output draws to much power than the voltage powering the input(tuner 2) would drop thus causing problems.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

It is not "power", but impedance. Video signals usually expect 75 ohms. If something is funky at either or both ends, it could cause things to go awry.


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## tzikeh (Jun 6, 2003)

rbtravis said:


> http://www.tivofan.com/directv/channels.html


But that only tells me local channels. I'm trying to diagnose problems up in the 200s range (TNT, Comedy Central, SciFi).


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## rbtravis (Aug 9, 2005)

which spot?
http://www.scottandmichelle.net/scott/dtv.html
all channels remain the same number


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## tzikeh (Jun 6, 2003)

rbtravis said:


> which spot?
> http://www.scottandmichelle.net/scott/dtv.html
> all channels remain the same number


Oh oh! I see - Chicago. So, 18,26.


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## erinb (Jan 12, 2004)

jpk said:


> So if DirecTV does identify my DirecTiVos as the problem, I'll probably swap my smaller DirecTiVo for the DirecTV DVR. That also saves the TiVo monthly fees, which are, I believe, about $12 a month.


the hubby and i got stuck with the DirecTV DVR a couple of years ago after our DirecTivos were stolen during a break-in. After trying it out for a while and determining that it was truly horrible and not just an adjustment period for a new system, we finally got someone on the phone who promised us a DirecTivo replacement for the buggy piece of crap they sent. I hope they're better now if that's the route you have to take, but I would see if you could find any reviews on it before doing so.

Erin


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## chuckg (Sep 1, 2007)

tzikeh said:


> But that only tells me local channels. I'm trying to diagnose problems up in the 200s range (TNT, Comedy Central, SciFi).


http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=121279


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## jpk (Jan 3, 2007)

Resolution: switched to Dish Network.

Why: DirecTV unable to replace their failing DirecTivo hardware with Tivo, DirecTV unable to provide a way for me to try the DirecTV DVR, DirecTV wanted a two year commitment locked into a DVR I couldn't try beforehand, and that was their best resolution for their hardware failing.

I'll certainly miss Tivo though.


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## Dkerr24 (Oct 29, 2004)

jpk said:


> Resolution: switched to Dish Network.
> 
> Why: DirecTV unable to replace their failing DirecTivo hardware with Tivo, DirecTV unable to provide a way for me to try the DirecTV DVR, DirecTV wanted a two year commitment locked into a DVR I couldn't try beforehand, and that was their best resolution for their hardware failing.
> 
> I'll certainly miss Tivo though.


Ahh Tivo is just another interface... you can get used to a new interface.


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## lvsaint (Jun 9, 2005)

Sorry to hear you ended up switching sides.

My Philips 708 box is starting to experience pixelation now. After troubleshooting with the other box, I'm pretty certain it's the sat 2 input tuner (rather than any disruptions up at the dish and switches.)

It was also freezing up every 72 hours or so forcing me to reboot each time.

I have just put the trouble box back in place but without the S Video cable and a few hours in, so far so good, but since this is happening sporadically, I won't hold my breath.

Might a reformat fix this or at least be a short term fix; stretch it's life out a bit (till TivoHD comes out :up: ) ?

I do not have the know-how to switch out PSUs or hard drives, might purchasing a second hand unit be the way to go (cheap on Ebay)?


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

jpk said:


> Resolution: switched to Dish Network.
> 
> Why: DirecTV unable to replace their failing DirecTivo hardware with Tivo, DirecTV unable to provide a way for me to try the DirecTV DVR, DirecTV wanted a two year commitment locked into a DVR I couldn't try beforehand, and that was their best resolution for their hardware failing.
> 
> I'll certainly miss Tivo though.


Call me confused  You don't want to get the DirecTV DVR because it isn't a TiVo, yet are willing to switch to Dish Network and use their DVR? What am I missing here?
Okay, it must be the 2 year commitment. Well, DirecTV is subsidizing these units and needs to make up the price by asking a subscriber to commit to some programming. Seems reasonable to me.


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

JimSpence said:


> Call me confused  You don't want to get the DirecTV DVR because it isn't a TiVo, yet are willing to switch to Dish Network and use their DVR? What am I missing here?
> Okay, it must be the 2 year commitment. Well, DirecTV is subsidizing these units and needs to make up the price by asking a subscriber to commit to some programming. Seems reasonable to me.


Completely and totally UNreasonable. There needs to be a 30 day money back guarantee. I understand that DTV is subsidizing the DVR equipment. But requiring anyone to commit to two years without some kind of trial period is insane. I have no trouble with the 2 year commitment, well I do but that's a different thread, but to require someone to sign a contract for an electronic appliance sight unseen with no way to back out of the deal if you hate it, is just loony.

What it sounds like to me is that DTV knows their box is bad and a lot of people would be sending it back.


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## Jerry_K (Feb 7, 2002)

Dkerr24 said:


> Ahh Tivo is just another interface... you can get used to a new interface.


Tivo is so much more than just another interface. Multi room viewing, music and photos from your computer, unfailing season passes, wishlists, it just goes on and on.

So with these new DirecTV problems cropping up, I am switching to Cable on Series 3 Tivo.

I considered Dish, but they do not have MRV either.


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

Jerry_K said:


> Tivo is so much more than just another interface. Multi room viewing, music and photos from your computer, unfailing season passes, wishlists, it just goes on and on.
> 
> So with these new DirecTV problems cropping up, I am switching to Cable on Series 3 Tivo.
> 
> I considered Dish, but they do not have MRV either.


Judging from his previous posts, I think Dkerr was being facetious when he said its just an interface.

And NO one currently has MRV besides Tivo.


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## nidan69 (Sep 24, 2002)

I have a Hughs DVR-40 which I bought used about 2 years ago (not my primary D-TiVo). About a month ago shows began to start getting "hung-up" during playback. This problem seems to be getting worse as time goes by. However, parts of the show will playback completely fine and w/o any problems. The problems, seem to occur most often during the beginning and the end of shows. I started guessing that my drive is going bad an may have some serious bad sectors (at least I hope its just that). 
Can I just buy a new (bigger) drive at a computer store and clone the image off the old drive onto the new one, using Norton Ghost for example? Do standard drives work or do I need a certain brand? Should I just bite the bullet and buy a finished drive from an upgrade store? It's been a while since I've cloned a drive, any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thx


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

nidan69 said:


> I have a Hughs DVR-40 which I bought used about 2 years ago (not my primary D-TiVo). About a month ago shows began to start getting "hung-up" during playback. This problem seems to be getting worse as time goes by. However, parts of the show will playback completely fine and w/o any problems. The problems, seem to occur most often during the beginning and the end of shows. I started guessing that my drive is going bad an may have some serious bad sectors (at least I hope its just that).
> Can I just buy a new (bigger) drive at a computer store and clone the image off the old drive onto the new one, using Norton Ghost for example? Do standard drives work or do I need a certain brand? Should I just bite the bullet and buy a finished drive from an upgrade store? It's been a while since I've cloned a drive, any suggestions would be appreciated.
> 
> Thx


The search function is your friend.


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