# To DWay or not DWay?



## SpacemanSpiff (Jan 31, 2004)

I realize this is off topic, however, you guys are the largest repository of sat knowledge that I know of so you get the question.

At my house I cannot get DSL. There is a possibility of a wifi connection from my local ISP but the retard who actually knows whether it will work or not is never in his office and refuses to return calls. (He's also the owner so that doesn't bode well for customer service.) I could get cable modem service, but for reasons which go back to why I've been with D* since 2000 I refuse to deal with them in any capacity.

So I'm stuck with Dial-Up or DWay.

Anyway, a man in town is selling a DWay Dish and a DWR6000 modem for $100. We would of course be stuck with installation and a DWR6000. Talking to DWay last night my wife was told that we could get set up with the 6000 modem, and then the next day, call in and upgrade the modem to the 7000 which is faster etc.

While I'm not entirely convinced I want to take the jump to DWay, the chance of getting faster than dial-up speeds (shared between 3 computers) is very appealing.

Can anyone talk me off the fence one way or the other?


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## schwa73 (Nov 23, 2005)

Without even looking at quality, $60 a month just seems like an obscene amount of money to pay for broadband.

But if your hands are tied, and this is your only choice for high-speed Internet access, then perhaps the price can be justified.


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## morgantown (Mar 29, 2005)

I'd still try and give the Wi-fi a shot nonetheless. How does cable's _cost_ compare?


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Only a retard (to use your words) would use DWay or dial up if you could get cable modem service. No matter how much you hate cable you will hate DWay more.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

Sight unseen, TAKE THE CABLE MODEM! I have a couple clients on satellite internet, only because they cannot get ANYTHING else whatsoever. They both DETEST it - sometimes, it actually is as slow as being back on dial-up, but they both work out of their homes & need some sort of high speed connection, so they are stuck on it.

Sorry, but satellite internet is really a last resort - BTW, do you guys have "wireless internet" available? I'm not talking about Wi-Fi, but it uses a terrestrial tower & you have a hi-gain antenna on your house to capture the signal. I also have some clients on it & while it doesn't match a good cable modem or DSL connection, it seems to offer pretty consistent performance. It costs them about $50 a month & a couple hundred to buy the equipment. Again, these people got it because they had NO other alternatives.

I hate to sound heartless, but seriously, you might just want to suck it up & give the cable modem a shot before you go other routes. (HDG summed it up quite nicely   ) 

BTW, what cable co. serves you?


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## morgantown (Mar 29, 2005)

Yea, I'd have to agree with the other posts. I was _trying_ to be _diplomatic_


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## skw (Jan 24, 2006)

Hold your nose and get the cable modem. Or perhaps you could move somewhere else to get DSL?


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## LlamaLarry (Apr 30, 2003)

HiDefGator said:


> Only a retard (to use your words) would use DWay or dial up if you could get cable modem service. No matter how much you hate cable you will hate DWay more.


No cable (TV or ISP) in the sticks, no DSL either, so I DirecWay. Seriously, don't think about DirecWay as a broadband provider if ANY other method is available. Costs more, slower downloads, even slower uploads, 10x latency and FAP to bring you down to sub modem speeds if you download too much. Easy decision if you have another option.


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## SpacemanSpiff (Jan 31, 2004)

When I said WiFi I meant wireless broadband. They're the ones who won't return calls.

Cable internet is $40 per month plus $30 for basic cable. The man who lived two doors down from me until he moved a few months ago had cable modem service. They would go down for weeks at a time. So in addition to cable sucking here, cable modem sucks as well.

Currently I'm paying $20 for dial up + $35 for a phone line.

The money isn't much more for theoretically higher speeds.

I'm going to point my wife at this thread so she can read what ya'll are saying because she's already told me that she wants to do it because dial-up is killing her.


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## Dkerr24 (Oct 29, 2004)

Directway is only a last resort. They put download caps on your account, so if you're more than a light user, you get stopped if you download too much data. The ping times are horrendous, so you can't use Directway for internet gaming.

If I had a choice of dial-up or Directway, I'd stick with dial-up.... Directway is THAT bad!


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## LlamaLarry (Apr 30, 2003)

To be fair, my DirecWay is rarely goes down and when it does the outages are measured in minutes or hours, not days or weeks. I started with DirecPC dial return, went to PC hosted satellite return and am now on self hosted satellite return (DW7000).

Uploads are much faster than on my DW4000 and since it is self hosted it is much easier to work with and gets rid of MS Internet Connection Sharing.

Broadbandreports.com's DirecWay forum is another great resource.


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## face (Feb 9, 2005)

I agree. If DirecWay is your only option it is not a bad option. The inititial issue is getting it properly installed. It is much more critical to have a good install for DirecWay than DirecTV. My DirecWay D/Ls are usually 1000/1500 and U/Ls around 200 with DW7000. Latency is a problem with gaming only, you won't really notice it with browsing.

NOW if you need to VPN with it, it will be slow, but it can work.



LlamaLarry said:


> To be fair, my DirecWay is rarely goes down and when it does the outages are measured in minutes or hours, not days or weeks. I started with DirecPC dial return, went to PC hosted satellite return and am now on self hosted satellite return (DW7000).
> 
> Uploads are much faster than on my DW4000 and since it is self hosted it is much easier to work with and gets rid of MS Internet Connection Sharing.
> 
> Broadbandreports.com's DirecWay forum is another great resource.


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## The Flush (Aug 3, 2005)

WildBlue is a new satellite internet provider that you should compare with Direcway.

I went with a wireless ISP instead of satellite due to lower startup costs, no bandwith throttling, similar speed and cost. My WISP is still more expensive and slower than almost all DSL and cable, but I had no DSL or cable to choose from.


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## wangmaster (Mar 22, 2004)

face said:


> I agree. If DirecWay is your only option it is not a bad option. The inititial issue is getting it properly installed. It is much more critical to have a good install for DirecWay than DirecTV. My DirecWay D/Ls are usually 1000/1500 and U/Ls around 200 with DW7000. Latency is a problem with gaming only, you won't really notice it with browsing.
> 
> NOW if you need to VPN with it, it will be slow, but it can work.


Depending on the types of web pages you hit, the 1000+ms latency can indeed suck with satellite. Think about it, You hit a web page with 4 pictures on it. Just the latency time is 5+ seconds (1 second for the html page, 1 second each for the 4 pictures). If you're able to use a proxy server that can stream the entire thing down as one big chunk, this is not as bad, but for normal straight browsing 1s latency is HUGE.


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## no-blue-screen (Feb 14, 2005)

Go with cable and get one of those $10 per month dial-up ISP to use as a backup if the cable goes down. As almost everyone else has stated, DirectWay is really meant for those who live "out in the sticks" or "literally in the middle of nowhere" and have no other options for HSI. I know cable can suck sometimes, but, I would bite the bullet and get cable. If it turns out it is down more than it is up, then you can revisit the issue, but overall I think you will be much happier with Cable than DWAY. Also, as others have stated, the latency is really a big issue with VPN, online gaming, etc. This causes the connection to slow down to dial-up speeds. In short, the DWAY uses packet compression for the increased speeds and with certain online activites this can be a major issue.


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## topochicho (Nov 21, 2002)

SpacemanSpiff said:


> When I said WiFi I meant wireless broadband. They're the ones who won't return calls.
> 
> Cable internet is $40 per month plus $30 for basic cable. The man who lived two doors down from me until he moved a few months ago had cable modem service. They would go down for weeks at a time. So in addition to cable sucking here, cable modem sucks as well.
> 
> ...


Not sure where you are at but you might want to see if Earthlink can be supply you with your cable connection.
At my parents house DSL is not an option, and they moved to DTV a couple years ago. TimeWarner told them they would have to subscribe to basic cable ($30... which in itself was a lie cause there is a "Life line" cable for $12) in order to get broadband. 
I called Earthlink and got them setup with cable broadband for $1 less than what TW wanted, got 3 more months at $19.99 than TW was offering, don't have to pay for life line or basic, and get 3X as many hours of free dialup (dad uses when he travels) as TW gives.

And of course even though we are with Earthlink, TW is actually providing the service.


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## Jerry_K (Feb 7, 2002)

I had DirecWay and jumped on cable like a flea on a stray dog as soon as I could. DirecWay throttling is the WORST. Try downloading Windows XP Service Pack 2. No dice. The throttling kicks in at 125 meg into the download and it will not complete because the Microsoft site expects a reply every fortnight or so. 

In addition, if you get DirecWay you will be very limited in your choice of Router. The D6000 will only work on 192.168.0.1 which is where most routers start out. You cannot get the IP on the router changed. I wound up with a Belkin which could coexist. The Belkin is slow compared to my nice new Netgear even with wired connections. 

Good luck, and a little crow goes well to make you appreciate the next filet mignon coming down the road.


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## rob_kr (Jan 24, 2006)

Hi,

I had Dway installed at my house for almost a year, and it was pathetic.

The latency in the connection makes all the difference. When they demo the thing, it's all fine and dandy. They show you a download of a large file, and it's alright. I had the $120 a month professional version with the 4 foot dish, and the theoretical maximum was 1.5M down and 256k up. 
With the mydirecway speed test I would score maybe 300-500 down and 180 up. But when you do a real test with real surfing behavior (like numion) you would see the true behavior. 20-24k down and 8k up. Way less than dial-up.

On an average day, pulling up one page of ebay with a lot of gifs would take over 90 seconds. It shtunk. The answer from Dway (and I have 14 escalation case numbers to prove it) was always the same. "that's very strange. Try rebooting. <minutes later> let me pass you on to 2nd tier support". And the next guy on the phone would never be aware of the fact he was 2nd tier support, because there isn't such a thing.

I am now back on cable modem and with all of its glitches, it works infinitely better than Dway. If you want, I still have my DW-6000 modem sitting here and you can have it for S&H ($5, $10?). I'll gladly send it to you and you can mail me the check later. When you talk to them, just beware of the sales trap, and have them guarantee and verify their throughput numbers with numion. Not mydirecway.

RK


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## SpacemanSpiff (Jan 31, 2004)

Being as I live in podunk MS with a podunk cable co, using Earthlink or someone else as my provider over the cable companies lines isn't an option.

Anyway, I pointed my wife to this thread and after reading the input we've decided we're still stuck with dial-up for the foreseable future.


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## Mr2sday (Jul 8, 2005)

This is a hard one, I think I'd seriously consider moving. Call your congressman and tell him/her to get you broadband for Christmas. 

My parents still have dialup and it kills. I pull up 5-8 browsers, type in the urls for the sites I want to see and watch tv for the 30-45 minutes it takes to get everything going. When my parents want to e-mail pictures to people or do ebay stuff, they drive the 20 minutes to my house. It's either 20 minutes each way plus 10 minutes online or 90 minutes on their dialup. 

In my opinion, Dway is never an option either. Sorry, gotta go with cable or sell your computer.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

ISDN is better than satellite internet.


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## emayracing (Dec 31, 2003)

Go with the cable internet over DWay.

I say this for 2 reasons.

1) I have a friend whose only option is DWay (lives in the middle of NOWHERE). He doesn't like it for a ton of reasons, and it is slower than a cable broadband (which he had before he moved to nowhere). He also found it to be more expensive than cable.

2) I also have MAJOR issues with the cable companies, which is why I have D*. However, I swallowed my pride for a minute and order a cable internet connection. I really despise having anything cable related in my house - but it's less expensive than DWay and from what I hear is faster.


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## jrinck (Nov 24, 2004)

I don't see how DWAY is an option for ANYONE. High startup costs, high monthly costs, poor download speeds, poor latency, and a p*ss-poor Fair Access Policy that further limits you.

I really think that DWAY is a grad student project in which the student is proving that even if you set up a business that is as anti-customer as it could be, that there will still be customers.


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## goony (Nov 20, 2003)

Another satellite internet option is Starband; I had them a few years back. As mentioned, latency is certainly an issue and if you have any time-sensitive applications (some games, stock ticker-based trading software, VOIP phones) it just plain doesn't work. From their home page check out their pricing link and be prepared for a shock.

Some people are selling their Starband stuff on eBay, so check that out as a possible equipment source. If you go that route be sure to get info from seller to contact Starband to see if they will activate it. Also, you have to have a Starband-certified installer put it in since it is a transmitter and must be properly aligned and checked out.

I dumped Starband like a hot rock when DSL became available.

When I had Starband there were no caps on downloads, I dunno about these days.

For $15/yr. you can join StarBandUsers - I used that resource a lot back when I had Starband and it was certainly worth the subscription price, but it has been a few years, so I don't know how large their forum user base is these days. Read their Is Starband for me? page.

Finally... there may be some tidbits of useful info in the Starband newsgroup (see http://groups.google.com/group/alt.satellite.starband) but there's a lot of spam/garbage posts you will have to wade through.


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## irregularjoe (Mar 6, 2005)

Do any of your neighbors use cable internet? Any wifi signals floating around?


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## JWThiers (Apr 13, 2005)

irregularjoe said:


> Do any of your neighbors use cable internet? Any wifi signals floating around?


Thats good advice. never hurts to check.


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## Yog-Sothoth (Jun 14, 2005)

> Do any of your neighbors use cable internet? Any wifi signals floating around?


I have to agree with that a bit. If you find some access points, and you know to whom they belong, maybe you could cut a deal with your neighbor. I'm not encouraging you to "steal" bandwidth from any neighbors. Just because a network is unsecured isn't an invitation to "hop on" (compare that to leaving your front door unlocked).

If the above worked out, you could upload a third-party firmware for a Linksys WRT54G/S router, set it up for "STA-Client" mode, and your network would connect to your neighbor's, but it would be on a different subnet (a good thing, unless you really want to see each other's shares). If you wanted to be on the same subnet, you would set it to "WET" mode, which turns your router into a [cheap] wireless ethernet bridge, which is what I use for a TiVo upstairs.


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## JWThiers (Apr 13, 2005)

Yog-Sothoth said:


> I have to agree with that a bit. If you find some access points, and you know to whom they belong, maybe you could cut a deal with your neighbor. I'm not encouraging you to "steal" bandwidth from any neighbors. Just because a network is unsecured isn't an invitation to "hop on" (compare that to leaving your front door unlocked).


Ethics aside with an unsecure network and broadcasting the SSID its more like door open and a flashing sign that says come on in. Why do I say that ? Has anyone ever accidentally connected to your neighbors Wi-Fi because you were outside and the neighbors router had a better signal than yours? Your machine by default tries to connect to the strongest signal, so unless you specifically set your wifi to connect to a particular network if a signal is available you may be doing this unknowingly now.

Word of advice if you do not want people accidentally connecting to your wireless network, on you router, Change the default SSID, Change the default password and after you configure all of you wifi devices with the ssid, turn off SSID broadcasting. and also just for kicks turn on WPA unless you have a real reason to leave it off. If you do those first 3 you will stop accidental connection to your system and also stop the casual wardriver. and WPA if you have a good passphrase (Truly random characters) you will stop all but the truly determined.


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## irregularjoe (Mar 6, 2005)

Or just leave it on and share.
Community wifi. It's a good thing.


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## JWThiers (Apr 13, 2005)

irregularjoe said:


> Or just leave it on and share.
> Community wifi. It's a good thing.


Sorry, but there is just too much that can happen with an open personal wifi. The only way that I would do this is set up a separate unsecure subnet and even then you would likely be responsible for ANY activity on the internet from your IP, including illegal activity. So if you want to DL illegal mp3's use irregularjoes wifi, RIAA will nail him and you are home free.


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## The Flush (Aug 3, 2005)

Start your own neighborhood WISP.

Start A WISP


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## darsovidus (Oct 1, 2006)

I currently have HughesNet HN7000S modem (previously DirecWay.) I have no other option than dialup and that is no option. The fastest dialup speed I have ever achieved here is 26.4 and that was a good day. Average was 14.4. Our five year old house has been great, but the 20+ year old phone lines down the road leave a bit to be desired.

The Fair Access Policy imposed by satellite broadband is a constant nuisance.

My download speeds average a 1MB file in 8 secs and a 10MB file in 1 minute.
My upload speeds average 58kb. That is disappointing.

I can now stream live365 music, look at weather/traffic reports, and look at my yahoo photos through my TIVO box. I can also stream my entire MP3 collection or look at even more photos on my PC in my home through my TIVO box.
Exciting right?

*I cannot download program guide information from the TIVO service.*
Please do not respond with any suggestions about how to fix this problem.
It is unfixable and the two TIVO "technical support" people I spoke with are clueless. One immediately transferring me and the other telling me to reboot my TIVO.
After several hours of searching and reading I have found that neither TIVO or DirecWay/Hughesnet have addressed this issue for years and I have found no solution, and they do not seem to care.

In other words. Keep your TIVO box near a phone jack so you can still update your program guide info if you go satellite. You will need to connect to the TIVO service via dialup manually every once in a while. No big deal, but a nuisance just the same. Well, I take that back. If TIVO does not offer any local numbers that are not long distance then dialing out for a constant update for your TIVO program guide can become a big deal quickly.

TIVO is not the only thing that will cause you worry over satellite broadband. Some conferencing software does not work either.

As far as I know you can no longer bundle your satellite TV and satellite internet.

If you can get cable broadband, get it.

I do love my satellite TV however, and will never go back to cable TV even if I could. I feel your pain on the cable relationship. I was burned and ignored by them also.
I have had cable at my previous location several years ago.

Digital channel signals are standard on satellite TV.
Only severe lightning or extremely heavy cloud cover ever interfere with my satellite signal.
If I could get cable broadband I would. DSL or WISP would not be bad either. They are just not available where I live. Too many trees for WISP and just too far in the boonies for anyone else except satellite.

I may have written a book here, but I thought you should be aware of what you are getting into from someone that currently has what you are looking into.

Bite the bullet and get the cable broadband friend.


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## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

What about wildblue? www.wildblue.com From when I used to work with Directv an internal release that came out and stated that a partnership b/t the two companies would be coming out. I know this thread is dead. But just my pennies worth.

ddrumer


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Keep talking to your phone company to see if they may be offering DSL. I did that a couple of years ago and found out that they were working on it. And sure enough, I turned out to be one of the first users in my neighborhood. However, if you don't live in a populated area then the phone company probably won't put money into the infrastructure. Also, there are distance limitations to a central office or a repeater. Talk to your neighbors to see if they is enough interest in DSL for your area.


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## Bryan Lyle (Feb 6, 2002)

darsovidus said:


> *I cannot download program guide information from the TIVO service.*
> Please do not respond with any suggestions about how to fix this problem.
> It is unfixable and the two TIVO "technical support" people I spoke with are clueless.


Tivo service works fine with wildblue. I had Dway prior to wildblue and had the same problem you did.


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## slydog75 (Jul 8, 2004)

darsovidus said:


> ...
> 
> I may have written a book here, but I thought you should be aware of what you are getting into from someone that currently has what you are looking into.
> 
> Bite the bullet and get the cable broadband friend.


The original post was from 9 months ago. I'm guessing he's made his decision by now!


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## mitchb2 (Sep 30, 2000)

We had satellite internet when we first moved here.
Horrible! Ping times were ridiculous, and on an overcast day, forget it.


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## erwildcat (Apr 27, 2005)

I read recently that WildBlue has agreed to wholesale its service to BOTH DTV and DishNetwork. DTV has said that it intends to do for internet customers that are stuck with dial-up (or poor broadband) what it did for TV watchers that couldn't get cable-that is deliver an affordable product that is reliable. Supposedly, this new partnership will take effect this fall, but no one at DTV is talking right now. They still refer you to HughesNet. Is there ANYONE OUT THERE that can tell me more about the timing (availability) of this new service? I am one of those unfortunates that will be stuck with dial-up forever according to the phone and cable companies-and I just can't take 28 KBPS anymore! I am seriously considering going directly with WildBlue as they have agreed to lower their initial commitment from eighteen months to one year, but I can't help but feel that DTV will be MUCH cheaper when they come online with their new service. Please, someone with some info-clue us in!


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## slydog75 (Jul 8, 2004)

mitchb2 said:


> We had satellite internet when we first moved here.
> Horrible! Ping times were ridiculous, and on an overcast day, forget it.


Odd, being overcast doesn't normally seem to affect my connection. The ping times ARE always bad though.


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## slydog75 (Jul 8, 2004)

erwildcat said:


> I am seriously considering going directly with WildBlue as they have agreed to lower their initial commitment from eighteen months to one year, but I can't help but feel that DTV will be MUCH cheaper when they come online with their new service. Please, someone with some info-clue us in!


I seriously doubt it will be much, if at all, cheaper. They used to bundle with DirecWay (now HughesNet) and it didn't save you any money.


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