# FireTV stick



## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

I snap ordered one of these. No idea if it's going to be possible to run the TiVo interface on one, but for $19, it's a low risk investment for something that will do things that my various other media devices won't (in this case, the Amazon Prime Music streaming and Kindle Fire screen mirroring).

Anyone have any thoughts? I mean, if there's even a 10% chance this thing can someday stream from my TiVo via a fire app, it's worth every penny. It would let me skip buying a TiVo Mini for a rarely used TV. Like, one in a workout room or the kid's playroom.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Anyone know if this new stick uses the DIAL protocol? I know Amazon currently doesn't play well with Google and never implemented discoverability for Amazon Prime Streaming - like Netflix. 

I am wondering if this means they will add a casting protocol that can be leveraged by TiVo...


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## AdamNJ (Aug 22, 2013)

I'm probably going to pick one up for 20 bucks even though I don't think I need it at all.

One thing I am trying to figure out though, is what is the different between the Fire TV Stick and the original Fire TV box? Other then size and price, the original box comes with the voice remote. Comparing the two product pages:
memory: 1gb (stick) 2gb (box), both have 8gb storage
connectivity: wifi is same, only box has wired ethernet
processor: dual core (stick) quad core (box)...does that really matter if it can still stream fine?
audio: box has optical audio out
games: 200+ (stick) 300+ (box) ...must be a processing power thing, but i think streaming apps and such are more what you would buy this for

Anyone know more?


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

I'm just glad there is another device out there to stream netflix. I was getting a bit worried there. I didn't want to be stuck with an Apple Tv, Roku, Roku Stick, Chromecast, GoogleTV, Samsung SmartTV,M LG SmartTV, Panasonic SmartTTV, other SmartTVS, Mac, pc, iPhone, iPad, Samsung Galaxy, Nexus phone, Galaxy tablet, Nexus tablet, Windows Phone, Amazon Fire, Wii, Wii U, 3ds, PS4, PS3, Xbox 360, Xbox 1, BluRay player, Surface, Tivo Roamio, Tivo Premiere, Tivo Mini, ... as my only options.

That was the only thought I had.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

bradleys said:


> Anyone know if this new stick uses the DIAL protocol? I know Amazon currently doesn't play well with Google and never implemented discoverability for Amazon Prime Streaming - like Netflix.
> 
> I am wondering if this means they will add a casting protocol that can be leveraged by TiVo...


I don't know what this will use. The regular FireTV doesn't use DIAL, I don't think. You have to use the included remote. There is no app to control the Fire TV.

Since the app to control the fireTV stick isn't out yet, we don't know what it's going to use. I know it uses Miracast for the screen mirroring. I have to assume it's going to either use DIAL or a proprietary DIAL implementation.

Almost certainly not google cast though. If they were going to do google cast, they would use support the chromecast instead.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

AdamNJ said:


> I'm probably going to pick one up for 20 bucks even though I don't think I need it at all.
> 
> One thing I am trying to figure out though, is what is the different between the Fire TV Stick and the original Fire TV box? Other then size and price, the original box comes with the voice remote. Comparing the two product pages:
> memory: 1gb (stick) 2gb (box), both have 8gb storage
> ...


Yeah, it seems the main difference is that the Fire TV Box has more power (and connection options), and has the built-in voice control in the remote. The Fire TV Stick only does voice over the app and if you pay extra for the upgraded remote. Presumably the "more power" will restrict some games.

Basically the same difference as the google tv and chromecast.


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## HenryFarpolo (Dec 1, 2008)

trip1eX said:


> I'm just glad there is another device out there to stream netflix. I was getting a bit worried there. I didn't want to be stuck with an Apple Tv, Roku, Roku Stick, Chromecast, GoogleTV, Samsung SmartTV,M LG SmartTV, Panasonic SmartTTV, other SmartTVS, Mac, pc, iPhone, iPad, Samsung Galaxy, Nexus phone, Galaxy tablet, Nexus tablet, Windows Phone, Amazon Fire, Wii, Wii U, 3ds, PS4, PS3, Xbox 360, Xbox 1, BluRay player, Surface, Tivo Roamio, Tivo Premiere, Tivo Mini, ... as my only options.
> 
> That was the only thought I had.


LOL


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

trip1eX said:


> I'm just glad there is another device out there to stream netflix. I was getting a bit worried there. I didn't want to be stuck with an Apple Tv, Roku, Roku Stick, Chromecast, GoogleTV, Samsung SmartTV,M LG SmartTV, Panasonic SmartTTV, other SmartTVS, Mac, pc, iPhone, iPad, Samsung Galaxy, Nexus phone, Galaxy tablet, Nexus tablet, Windows Phone, Amazon Fire, Wii, Wii U, 3ds, PS4, PS3, Xbox 360, Xbox 1, BluRay player, Surface, Tivo Roamio, Tivo Premiere, Tivo Mini, ... as my only options.
> 
> That was the only thought I had.


Yeahbut, you need the "killer" one that will the center of your living room sit back experience.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

For only $19 each I went ahead and picked up teh max, two of them. It's a great deal for the price. I only recently got three Chromecasts when they were $28 each. So at the very least i will use these FireTv sticks to stream Amazon Prime content and to stream my Amazon Music.

Plus I see the FireTv stick can access 5Ghz WiFi. The current Chromecast only uses 2.4ghz. So it will be nice to have some more devices that can use my 5Ghz APs.

The FireTv stick is a much better deal than the over priced FireTV I have.


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## spaldingclan (Aug 22, 2012)

only reason I'm not buying is it can't use the USB port on my tv to power it


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

spaldingclan said:


> only reason I'm not buying is it can't use the USB port on my tv to power it


I prefer to not use a TV USB port for power. But i also plug these things into an HDMI switch. Never directly into an HDMI port on the TV.


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

From the Press Release:
Fling movies and TV shows from your phone or tabletFling movies and TV shows from your Fire tablet or Fire phone to Fire TV Stick, turning your TV into the primary screen and freeing up your phone or tablet to provide playback controls, a customized display for X-Ray, or simply a place to email, browse the web, and more, while you watch a movie. Fire TV Stick supports standards like DIAL so you can also fling services like YouTube, Spotify, and coming soon, Netflix, from your Android phone or iPhone.

Also developer docs:
https://developer.amazon.com/public/solutions/devices/fire-tv/docs/dial-integration


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

For $20 why not. I paid $12 for the Chromecast (after Netflix promo) and I never even use it. This supports apps so it might be more useful.


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## AdamNJ (Aug 22, 2013)

spaldingclan said:


> only reason I'm not buying is it can't use the USB port on my tv to power it


Why can't you? I couldn't find much about the power requirements (mA).


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## spaldingclan (Aug 22, 2012)

i read somewhere that it needs an AC plug for power


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## AdamNJ (Aug 22, 2013)

i sure hope it can run off most tv usb ports.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I bet it pulls more power then a single USB port can provide (500mA). However I wonder if a USB power cable like this would work?

http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-USB2HAUBY1-Cable-External-Drive/dp/B0047AALW6

That combines the power from two ports into one providing up to 1A of power.


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## AdamNJ (Aug 22, 2013)

I'm pretty sure I have a 500mA and a 1A usb port on my tv.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Then it might work


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## AdamNJ (Aug 22, 2013)

chat with amazon help:

Me:do you have any details of the usb power requirements for the fire tv stick? i see a power adapter is included, but i am hoping that my tv 's usb ports can power it.
Sunil:Hello, my name is Sunil. I'll certainly try to help regarding your concern.
Please allow me a moment.
I'm checking with our concerned team Adam.
A member of our Amazon Instant Video team will need to help you with this. Please hold while I transfer you. One of our Amazon Instant Video Specialists will assist you shortly.
Me:Ok. I'm looking for the milliamp (mA) / Amp rating needed, or what the included power adapter outputs
A Customer Service Associate will be with you in a moment.
You are now connected to Shakil from Amazon.com
Shakil:Hello, my name is Shakil. I'll be happy to help you today.
I understand your concern with powering the FireTV stick through your TV.
Fire TV stick cannot be powered directly by your HDTV.
It must be plugged into your wall.
Me:do you know the amperage rating needed?
Shakil:I'm sorry, I do not have that information. However, even if your TV's usb power port meets the requirement, you won't be able to charge the Fire TV stick because it do not take any power through the port.

He doesn't know the power requirement, but somehow he can state the TV won't work. Also his last statement make no sense whatsoever.

continued:
Shakil:I hope we are still connected?
Me:yes
your last statement doesn't make much sense since the usb port on the firetv stick is for power, and the usb by it's nature provides 5v power
Shakil:I'm sorry for any misunderstanding. There is a separate port on the Fire TV stick for power. You can view the Simple to set up section to view the port location.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GDQ0RMG
Me:yes, and I want to know the power requirements for it
Shakil:Just for confirmation, you want to use the additional USB port in your TV and use a connector to charge the Fire TV stick right?
Me:yes
Shakil:Alright. I'm very sorry I misunderstood.
Me:to charge/power the firetv stick into it's micro usb port
Shakil:Could you please allow me a few moments to research on this?
Me:sure
Shakil:Thank you for your patience.
Me:no problem
Shakil:Unfortunately, I couldn't locate any information about power specifications for the device.
Me:is there anyone that you can transfer me to that may have access to the device itself can can find out?
Shakil:I'm sorry, the information haven't been updated yet. However, as per the information on the website, I'm not sure whether you would be able to power the Fire TV stick using a USB connector.

no ****, that is why I contacted you jackass.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Sounds like he thinks it plugs into the TV via USB instead of HDMI. Obviously doesn't know what he's talking about. 

I just checked and my Samsung TV has a 1A port so it might be able to power the FireTV stick. I'll find out when I get it in a few weeks.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

trip1eX said:


> I'm just glad there is another device out there to stream netflix. I was getting a bit worried there. I didn't want to be stuck with an Apple Tv, Roku, Roku Stick, Chromecast, GoogleTV, Samsung SmartTV,M LG SmartTV, Panasonic SmartTTV, other SmartTVS, Mac, pc, iPhone, iPad, Samsung Galaxy, Nexus phone, Galaxy tablet, Nexus tablet, Windows Phone, Amazon Fire, Wii, Wii U, 3ds, PS4, PS3, Xbox 360, Xbox 1, BluRay player, Surface, Tivo Roamio, Tivo Premiere, Tivo Mini, ... as my only options.
> 
> That was the only thought I had.


Missed Chromebooks and WD TV .


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

I power my chromecast on the USB port of one of my TVs and I am not sure it's a desirable solution, because it turns off when the TV is off. Maybe some TVs don't do this.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Likewise with the Roku Stick...it works fine powered from the TV's USB port, but when you turn off the TV you lose power on the USB port so the stick shuts down. As a result, each time you turn on the TV the Roku boots. Not to mention how long that can take, it would make getting software updates more difficult.


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

When my TV comes on, it's defaulted to Tivo. After checking what's new and other housekeeping, I would hardly notice a Roku was not booted by the time I switch over.

I also had the opposite experience, when I had an HDMI auto-switch. Everytime a Roku like device got powered on, it would take over the display with a useless boot screen for minutes.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

telemark said:


> When my TV comes on, it's defaulted to Tivo. After checking what's new and other housekeeping, I would hardly notice a Roku was not booted by the time I switch over...


But as I mentioned, the Roku updates get more difficult. A Roku will only download and install a software or app update when the box is idle. Depending on your usage pattern that could result in the user needing to manually force updates.

I think you also underestimate how long it takes a Roku Stick to boot up.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

telemark said:


> When my TV comes on, it's defaulted to Tivo. After checking what's new and other housekeeping, I would hardly notice a Roku was not booted by the time I switch over.
> 
> I also had the opposite experience, when I had an HDMI auto-switch. Everytime a Roku like device got powered on, it would take over the display with a useless boot screen for minutes.


Yeah, so, the Chromecast is always booted before I switch to it. It's not the boot-time that annoys me. It's things like "Oh, they released a new update that let's me set the background image! I want to play with that. Wait, that means I have to walk into the bedroom, turn on the TV, wait for the update to install, then do it. Meh. Maybe tonight before I go to bed."

Vs just pulling out my phone and setting a background image from my living room.

It's a tiny thing, I admit. But it's just a slight inconvenience such that I am not sure it's a thing I want.

Your TV is plugged into something anyways, right? So just plug your stick (Fire, Chomecast, Roku, whatever) into the same thing your TV is plugged into. They make power squids of all shapes and sizes for all kinds of outlets and mounting situations.


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## ncbill (Sep 1, 2007)

Given my experiences with Roku boxes, shutting them down and cold-booting was often necessary.



Diana Collins said:


> Likewise with the Roku Stick...it works fine powered from the TV's USB port, but when you turn off the TV you lose power on the USB port so the stick shuts down. As a result, each time you turn on the TV the Roku boots. Not to mention how long that can take, it would make getting software updates more difficult.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

ncbill said:


> Given my experiences with Roku boxes, shutting them down and cold-booting was often necessary.


Not here. I can go for weeks without using my Roku 3 or two Roku 2 boxes. And when I wan to use it I go to that input, start the streaming app I want and stream the content I want without issues. They have been rock solid. The only time they reboot is when they have an update. Which doesn't happen very often.


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## Captainbob (Sep 1, 2014)

ncbill said:


> Given my experiences with Roku boxes, shutting them down and cold-booting was often necessary.


Have to do that about once a year.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Grakthis said:


> .......
> Your TV is plugged into something anyways, right? So just plug your stick (Fire, Chomecast, Roku, whatever) into the same thing your TV is plugged into. They make power squids of all shapes and sizes for all kinds of outlets and mounting situations.


+1 I don't understand all the fuss about being able to use TV USB ports to power these sticks. Surely the tiny power consumption delta of leaving them powered all the time isn't a significant issue.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

ncbill said:


> Given my experiences with Roku boxes, shutting them down and cold-booting was often necessary.


We have a Roku 3, an XS, an XD and a Stick and have never *had* to reboot any of them, ever.


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## AdamNJ (Aug 22, 2013)

dlfl said:


> +1 I don't understand all the fuss about being able to use TV USB ports to power these sticks. Surely the tiny power consumption delta of leaving them powered all the time isn't a significant issue.


Being able to use an unused USB port on your TV to provide power for another device means:
- one less plug needed on your already full surge protector/power strip
- possibly less visable wires since you can plug into hdmi and wire tie the usb cable all behind your tv


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## spaldingclan (Aug 22, 2012)

AdamNJ said:


> Being able to use an unused USB port on your TV to provide power for another device means:
> - one less plug needed on your already full surge protector/power strip
> - possibly less visable wires since you can plug into hdmi and wire tie the usb cable all behind your tv


For me its that I'm putting it on a TV in my bathroom (I know, 1st world problem) that doesn't have another free AC outlet. If I could use the USB port, it makes it a lot cleaner.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

spaldingclan said:


> For me its that I'm putting it on a TV in my bathroom (I know, 1st world problem) that doesn't have another free AC outlet. If I could use the USB port, it makes it a lot cleaner.


http://www.amazon.com/Accell-D080B-...F8&qid=1414609776&sr=8-1&keywords=power+squid

You're welcome.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Grakthis said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Accell-D080B-...F8&qid=1414609776&sr=8-1&keywords=power+squid
> 
> You're welcome.


Those things are huge. You wouldn't want one in the bathroom. I got one years ago. It needs to be in a place that can be hidden since it is so large.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

This would work better..

http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Unlimited-PWR-PSLIB-2-Xtender-Splitter/dp/B000234UFG

I use several of these, they're about 4-5" long end to end.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

spaldingclan said:


> For me its that I'm putting it on a TV in my bathroom (I know, 1st world problem) that doesn't have another free AC outlet. If I could use the USB port, it makes it a lot cleaner.


who needs a tv in the bathroom in this day and age? That's what the iPad and iPhone are for.

What you really need is this:

http://www.amazon.com/Pad-Bracket-Wall-Mount-Apple/dp/B0046V4CE4/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt

or (better yet) this:
|
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\/


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)




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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Love it.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Maybe it would be better to power the Fire TV stick from the USB port of a Tivo, since it's always on. Not sure what the Tivo USB ports are rated at.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> Those things are huge. You wouldn't want one in the bathroom. I got one years ago. It needs to be in a place that can be hidden since it is so large.


They make tons of sizes and variants on the same idea. That was just an example.


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## I WANT MORE (Oct 13, 2009)

shwru980r said:


> Maybe it would be better to power the Fire TV stick from the USB port of a Tivo, since it's always on. Not sure what the Tivo USB ports are rated at.


YOU CAN NOT POWER THE FIRE STICK VIA USB. THAT IS THE ISSUE.


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

I WANT MORE said:


> YOU CAN NOT POWER THE FIRE STICK VIA USB. THAT IS THE ISSUE.


Does it say that definitively somewhere?

The only reference I've seen about power is the contents list which says:
USB cable and power adapter


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

I WANT MORE said:


> YOU CAN NOT POWER THE FIRE STICK VIA USB. THAT IS THE ISSUE.


Looks like you might be able to...


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## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

Yeah, seems identical to the Chromecast.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

Philmatic said:


> Yeah, seems identical to the Chromecast.


Well, the power draw might be higher.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

I ordered one. Couldn't resist for $19. We'll see how it works. I've heard that the full FireTV has the highest video quality and fastest interface of any of the streaming contraptions, so we'll see.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

I read this part on Amazon site: "Coming soon&#8212;take Fire TV Stick with you to use with HDTVs in hotels, college dorms, or anywhere with captive portal Internet access that requires entering a password or a log-in."

This is different than Chromecast or Roku because you can't normally get past the login screen on hotspots because they never come up on the device.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Bigg said:


> I ordered one. Couldn't resist for $19. We'll see how it works. I've heard that the full FireTV has the highest video quality and fastest interface of any of the streaming contraptions, so we'll see.


Who said it has the highest quality? The Firetv video quality is no different than many other Devices. Any device that has access to the 1080P streams will look as good. And actually the Roamio and Minis can output Amazon in 1080P24, which the FireTV can't do. And the Roamio and Mini ramps up to the 1080P stream much, much faster than the FireTV does. Which was surprising.


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## I WANT MORE (Oct 13, 2009)

I WANT MORE said:


> YOU CAN NOT POWER THE FIRE STICK VIA USB. THAT IS THE ISSUE.





davezatz said:


> Looks like you might be able to...


I hope this is correct. Earlier discussion was that it will not. 
I would love to be wrong.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> Who said it has the highest quality? The Firetv video quality is no different than many other Devices. Any device that has access to the 1080P streams will look as good. And actually the Roamio and Minis can output Amazon in 1080P24, which the FireTV can't do. And the Roamio and Mini ramps up to the 1080P stream much, much faster than the FireTV does. Which was surprising.


Online reviews and podcasts. I've heard a number of times that, for whatever reason, the additional processing power allows it to do something to the video, and it provides a slightly higher quality output. Maybe better H.264 decoders? A bit of processing after decoding? It's getting the same streams in as any other device, it's just doing a better job decoding and displaying them.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Decoding an MPEG4 stream is no more taxing than decoding MPEG2 (that was a design goal of h.264). If there is any difference in output at all, it would more likely be a difference in colorspace. They might be doing RGB which can produce a picture on sets that were calibrated for YCbCr that some people think is "better", but which is inaccurate. When the TV is recalibrated, the output differences disappear.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Diana Collins said:


> Decoding an MPEG4 stream is no more taxing than decoding MPEG2 (that was a design goal of h.264).


That's only true of the Base profile. The Main and High profiles both offer features that require significantly more processing power to decode then MPEG-2. Although at this point pretty much everything has enough power to decode. The spec was designed a decade ago when processing power was much harder to come by.

That being said the decoder shouldn't have an effect on quality. As long as the decoder is designed to spec then it's output should be identical to any other decoder designed to spec. The quality stuff all applies on the encode side.

Now there could be post processing steps that happen after the decoding that could effect quality. Or perhaps these people are just seeing things.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Diana Collins said:


> Decoding an MPEG4 stream is no more taxing than decoding MPEG2 (that was a design goal of h.264). If there is any difference in output at all, it would more likely be a difference in colorspace. They might be doing RGB which can produce a picture on sets that were calibrated for YCbCr that some people think is "better", but which is inaccurate. When the TV is recalibrated, the output differences disappear.


Point missed. I was comparing H.264 to H.264 between say, a Roku, and a Fire TV. Many users have said the Fire TV outputs better PQ.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

Tangentially related, but how slick would the announced Echo have been if it could also control the FireTV?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Bigg said:


> Point missed. I was comparing H.264 to H.264 between say, a Roku, and a Fire TV. Many users have said the Fire TV outputs better PQ.


As mention it could be the color space. The Roku outputs RGB 24 bit while the fire tv outputs I think 444 24bit color space. It looks the same in my setup. But They both go through my video processor and gets output as 444 36 bit.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Unless the original video is 4:4:4 I can't imagine that upconverting provides much, if any, improvement. Now the RGB vs YUV (with any chroma) could make a difference as they have different gamuts and could look different depending on the TVs internal processing.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Bigg said:


> Point missed. I was comparing H.264 to H.264 between say, a Roku, and a Fire TV. Many users have said the Fire TV outputs better PQ.


And you missed mine, which was that CPU power is the least likely explanation of any differences.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> Unless the original video is 4:4:4 I can't imagine that upconverting provides much, if any, improvement. Now the RGB vs YUV (with any chroma) could make a difference as they have different gamuts and could look different depending on the TVs internal processing.


My display is calibrated to 444 being input. I know displays I owned in the past would react differently depending on whether it was receiving 444, 422, or RGB. And if the Tv wasn't calibrated properly to each of those they could look different. For instance my older DLP set was calibrated to RGB being input and if you tried to input 444 or 422, the difference was very obvious. Since I run everything through a video processor it's easiest just to keep everything the same going to the TV.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Diana Collins said:


> And you missed mine, which was that CPU power is the least likely explanation of any differences.


It would more likely be the hardware decoders.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Bigg said:


> It would more likely be the hardware decoders.


Again, not true. The decoded output of an H.264 stream should be identical from all decoders written/designed to the specification. All quality related variables in the spec are applied at encode time. The decoder is simply applying the math and outputting the results. There is no room for variations. Any quality changes have to be coming from post processing and/or the color space difference.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> Again, not true. The decoded output of an H.264 stream should be identical from all decoders written/designed to the specification. All quality related variables in the spec are applied at encode time. The decoder is simply applying the math and outputting the results. There is no room for variations. Any quality changes have to be coming from post processing and/or the color space difference.


Then it's doing some post processing to clean things up.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

It could be. It could also be the RGB vs YUV thing aaron mentioned above.


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