# Mini connects with ethernet but not with MOCA



## mreaves53 (Feb 9, 2009)

After trying many many times I was not successful to get my Mini to find my Roamio Plus using Moca. I connected the Mini to my router via power line and boom, it saw the Roamio on the first try.

Where can I look to see why my Moca is not working?

Thanks,


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

The first question is: do you have MoCa enabled in your coax line, where Mini is located? If yes, does the Mini connect to internet (see if it does under "networking" menus)?

Roamio Plus comes with a built in MoCa adapter, so it should create a MoCA network. Make sure you have it enabled by choosing "create MoCA network" on Roamio Plus.

Explaining here how your Roamio Plus and Mini are connected would help in people guiding you through the process, possibly with a diagram. Also, you don't say who your provider is.

Below is a link on TiVo support page on MoCA:

https://www.tivo.com/support/how-to/what-moca


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## mreaves53 (Feb 9, 2009)

I did turn on the MoCA on the Roamio Plus. 
The mini did connect to the internet using MoCA and download the info from TiVo. 
When the mini tried to connect to the Roamio I received the V78 could not find host dvr error.
Note: The mini used to connect to the Roamio by MoCA several months ago. I was gone for a long period of time and unplugged the mini from from the AC. When I returned and tried to repower the mini is when all of the troubles ensued.

My provider is Comcast.

Thanks,


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mreaves53 said:


> I did turn on the MoCA on the Roamio Plus.
> 
> The mini did connect to the internet using MoCA and download the info from TiVo. When the mini tried to connect to the Roamio I received the V78 could not find host dvr error.
> 
> ...


Short of a more comprehensive review of all your equipment and connections (and ideally a diagram, as mentioned by thyname), some questions...

Is 'V78' the correct code? I find it strange that I'm getting zero search results for that code.

What are you using for your modem and router/gateway (brands/models)?

Do you have any other currently-connecting MoCA devices?

Have you tried doing a factory reset (aka 'Clear & Delete Everything') of the Mini?


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## mreaves53 (Feb 9, 2009)

I am not 100% sure of the code number now as the mini connected with ethernet.

Modem is an Arris/Motorola SDBG 6580 and router is Buffalo Airstation N600 running dd-wrt.

I do not have any other devices on the MoCA network.

I have done a factory reset not once, but several times. Spent over an hour with TiVo support with not luck.

Would love to do a diagram, what is the easiest software to use? 

Thanks,


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mreaves53 said:


> I am not 100% sure of the code number now as the mini connected with ethernet.


Ok; we'll put a pin in that, for now.



> Modem is an Arris/Motorola SDBG 6580 and router is Buffalo Airstation N600 running dd-wrt.


Also good, as the SBG6580 doesn't support MoCA (and so can't be conflicting).



> I do not have any other devices on the MoCA network.
> 
> I have done a factory reset not once, but several times. Spent over an hour with TiVo support with no luck.


Noted.



> Would love to do a diagram, what is the easiest software to use?


Pencil & paper work well. Don't get hung-up on making it look pretty; accuracy is what matters... e.g. including device models, how devices are connected via both coax and Ethernet, the specs of interconnecting components (switches, splitters, amps). See attached for examples, for inspiration. 

.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

mreaves53 said:


> I did turn on the MoCA on the Roamio Plus.
> The mini did connect to the internet using MoCA and download the info from TiVo.
> When the mini tried to connect to the Roamio I received the V78 could not find host dvr error.
> Note: The mini used to connect to the Roamio by MoCA several months ago. I was gone for a long period of time and unplugged the mini from from the AC. When I returned and tried to repower the mini is when all of the troubles ensued.
> ...


That error code does not ring a bell for me. I am not familiar with it, neither I have heard of it before.

Now that the Mini connected via Ethernet, I would recommend trying MoCA connection again. Once you plug in to MoCA, do a network test (under Network Menu), and see if Mini connects to internet OK.

If you post a diagram of connections, people here (most likely the networking Pros, Krkaufman and fcfc2) can troubleshoot.

MoCA can sometimes be a b**ch. many factors to cause to not work, such as splitters, cables, etc. etc.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Your modem could be the problem. It has built in Moca, so you may have two Moca "creators" on the network. Pick one, and turn off the other. There is also Moca encryption on the modem you'll need to disable if you stick with it as the creator.

Since you already have ethernet working, is there a reason you want to switch to Moca?


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

mdavej said:


> Since you already have ethernet working, is there a reason you want to switch to Moca?


See post #1 from OP. He is connecting via Ethernet using powerline adapter.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mreaves53 said:


> Modem is an *Arris/Motorola SDBG 6580* and router is Buffalo Airstation N600 running dd-wrt.





mdavej said:


> Your modem could be the problem. It has built in Moca, so you may have two Moca "creators" on the network.


Did I pull-up the wrong documentation....


krkaufman said:


> Also good, as the *SBG6580* doesn't support MoCA (and so can't be conflicting).


I'm not seeing any mention of MoCA in the documentation, nor does the device's front panel have the usual MoCA LED indicator.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Also just wanted to mention that you're not alone in having a Mini mysteriously "suddenly" unable to connect via MoCA...

See: http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=542866

Something to keep in mind if/when all the usual suspects are ruled-out. (At present, the other poster is awaiting shipment of a PoE MoCA filter and MoCA-compatible splitter.)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

If you have the ability to move the Mini, along w/ some spare coax and (hopefully) a known-good MoCA-compatible 2-way splitter, you could attempt the MoCA test in the following post, placing the Mini as close as possible to the MoCA-creating Roamio, to try to eliminate other coax component issues as the problem.

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10980434

Given what you've done so far, it sounds like you could consider bullets 1-3 already completed, and start w/ #4.


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## mreaves53 (Feb 9, 2009)

Here is a diagram of my network. Please note I do have the coax connected to the Mini, but I DO NOT have MoCA enabled on the Roamio.

Only 1 long run on the whole network; from the router to the switch is approximately 25 ft. All other connections are 6 ft or less.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

*Not that it relates to your issue...*. but is your Arris SBG6580 configured for "bridge mode," then, so that it's effectively downgraded from a gateway to just a simple modem?


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## mreaves53 (Feb 9, 2009)

No it is not.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Thanks for the diagram. Unfortunately, it doesn't clear-up the most important question...

*How does the Mini's coax line connect back to the coax line connecting to your MoCA-creating Roamio Pro? *

See attached:





​
Though I'm wondering if the name of your diagram,* 'Apartment Network.jpg,'* doesn't hint at the underlying issue... that you live in a "multi-dwelling" building, and so your rooms may not be isolated from the rest of the apartment building/complex. For reference, you may want to take a look at this PDF from Cisco...
*MoCA Installation and Troubleshooting Reference Guide*​... specifically, pages 17 & 18 that discuss multi-dwelling buildings. See attached:





​
*The "solution" on page 18 demonstrates how an apartment/condo *should* be wired*, assuming a MoCA-compatible splitter is used, while page 17 may depict how it currently *is* wired -- noting that the splitter in the page 17 diagram may also be a MoCA-hostile splitter or amplifier, further complicating connectivity.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mreaves53 said:


> No it is not.


That would be the recommended solution for configurations such as yours.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Oh, also, what model is that "Motorola Cable Box" in the diagram? (Need to make sure it isn't an X1 DVR that might be throwing a competing MoCA signal on your lines.)


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## mreaves53 (Feb 9, 2009)

Motorola cable box is very old and does not have a DVR or even HDMI, only uses component video so I would guess that it can not create a MoCA network. 

I have not looked at the wiring in the main box outside my apartment, but I will later today.

The really strange thing is that the MoCA network was working up until I left the Mini unplugged for several weeks and nothing on the coax side of the network has changed.

Thanks,


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mreaves53 said:


> I did turn on the MoCA on the Roamio Plus.
> 
> The mini did connect to the internet using MoCA and download the info from TiVo.
> 
> When the mini tried to connect to the Roamio I received the V78 could not find host dvr error.


These 3 points, in combination with my speculation re: a multi-dwelling building, make me wonder if your Mini might have been connecting to/through a neighbor's MoCA network.

Running with the multi-dwelling _speculation_: 

Yes, your Mini may be in another room in your apartment, but it doesn't know that, inherently. The Mini may be seeing a stronger MoCA signal coming from another device hanging off a shared splitter/amplifier.

Connecting via another MoCA bridge would explain why the Mini can connect to the Internet, but not see or connect to your DVR.

This also might explain why MoCA on the Mini used to work but doesn't now -- even if no hardware has changed -- if someone fired-up MoCA where it didn't used to be.

Things you might do to test the theory...

*Compare IP Settings*

With the Mini connected via MoCA, check its network settings information ("View network status") to determine its:

IP address
subnet mask
gateway IP address
etc.

You can then compare these values to what your DVR and other functioning network gear report. All your gear should have the same gateway address, and would typically have the same first three integers making-up their individual IP addresses.

*Test for alternate MoCA bridge*

Power-off the Roamio (supposedly your one MoCA bridge) and then power-cycle your Mini, and see if the Mini is still able to connect to the Internet via MoCA.

With your lone MoCA bridge fully powered-down, the basic MoCA connection for the Mini should fail.

p.s. Addendum to the above tests: If your Mini is connecting via your own network, you should be able to check your router to determine whether the Mini is connecting by looking at the list of connected clients. (This would certainly apply if the Mini is configured for DHCP, and possibly even if the Mini is using a manually-configured static IP.)


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

He subsequently said he does not have MoCA enabled on Roamio. See post #13


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

thyname said:


> He subsequently said he does not have MoCA enabled on Roamio. See post #13


Then he's well on his way to completing test #2, though I'd prefer the Roamio be fully powered-down, in order to eliminate any possible TiVo network configuration hinkiness that's been observed in the past.

With the Roamio powered-down, the Mini shouldn't be able to connect via MoCA. (I believe it's currently networked via the Ethernet/Powerline connection.)


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## mreaves53 (Feb 9, 2009)

I understand all you are saying. I will check all of the suggestions you have mentioned. I did notice when the Mini connected through MoCA it did have a strange IP address. 

I have a MS in computer science, but not a lot of experience with MoCA. I am learning and I thank you for all of your suggestions and info.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mreaves53 said:


> Motorola cable box is very old and does not have a DVR or even HDMI, only uses component video so I would guess that it can not create a MoCA network.


Agreed; almost certainly not.

Though feel free to power-off this device, as well, when trying test #2, "Searching for a mystery MoCA bridge." As Hicks would say, only way to be sure.



mreaves53 said:


> I have not looked at the wiring in the main box outside my apartment, but I will later today.


Look forward to hearing/seeing what you find. Take a pic w/ a smartphone, if needed, and/or jot down any model numbers you see for each component in the box.

p.s. I'd also be interested in a pic of the splitter connected to the Roamio, or its brand/model#. (Just to verify its specs.)


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

... and please do not disappear. People come over here for help, and then we never hear back from them, for good or for bad. It sounds like they either find the solution and never bother to update and thank the kind people (like krkaufman) who helped them, or they give up entirely on the project, and again don't bother to say so in their own thread. It happens so many time.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

thyname said:


> ... and please do not disappear.


Well, I'll be disappearing for a while. Gotta take Mom out to dinner, then help her get a new TV.

Fingers crossed for positive test results. (i.e. any results that make sense)


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

krkaufman said:


> Well, I'll be disappearing for a while. Gotta take Mom out to dinner, then help her get a new TV.
> 
> Fingers crossed for positive test results. (i.e. any results that make sense)


Enjoy your time with your mom.

I was not talking about disappearing for today - rather disappearing forever.

What TV do you have in mind?


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## mreaves53 (Feb 9, 2009)

It is as you suggested, the mini is connecting to the internet and TiVo through another MoCA network. It got a strange ip address, but because everyone in my complex uses Comcast, the DNS was correct.

Is there anyway I can force the Mini to connect to my network? If not, will attaching a POE filter at the box solve my problem?

Thanks,


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mreaves53 said:


> It is as you suggested, the mini is connecting to the internet and TiVo through another MoCA network. It got a strange ip address, but because everyone in my complex uses Comcast, the DNS was correct.
> 
> Is there anyway I can force the Mini to connect to my network? If not, will attaching a POE filter at the box solve my problem?
> 
> Thanks,


Excellent. And, yes, there is -- I believe -- and apologies for not posting it sooner. (Thought of it over an hour ago, but it slipped my mind when I got back to the keyboard to post the above 2 tests.)

First, one other thing I just thought of that also would have been useful in identifying your MoCA connection to a foreign entity... check your MoCA connection stats on your Mini. Via the MoCA stats you can see the other MoCA nodes visible, their transmission and power levels, as well as their MAC addresses. See:
Checking MoCA connection quality​edit: NOTE: You should take note of the MoCA channel being used by the Mini when it is connected to the foreign MoCA network --- and avoid/skip using that channel number when manually configuring your Roamio & Mini.​
As for trying to establish your MoCA network as-is, without making any of the desired/necessary changes to your network to bring it up to MoCA snuff, you could try...

*Manual configuration of your MoCA Settings*


When configuring the Roamio Pro with "Use this DVR to create a MoCA network," manually configure your MoCA network settings in the Roamio Pro, setting an explicit MoCA channel and enabling privacy -- starting with the lowest MoCA channel possible;

Configure the Mini to "Connect using MoCA" using the matching settings entered into the Roamio, and see if you have any luck;

Repeat both of the above for successive increments of the MoCA channel number, until you successfully connect. (hopefully?!?)

NOTES:

Adjusting the channels may find an open space available;

Using privacy ensures that only your MoCA devices can connect;

WARNING: Increasing the MoCA channel from 15 upward reduces the odds of MoCA connectivity if using sub-compliant splitters, amps, etc., as the higher channels move further and further away from the specs for a common cable coax splitter.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Did I pull-up the wrong documentation....
> 
> I'm not seeing any mention of MoCA in the documentation, nor does the device's front panel have the usual MoCA LED indicator.


You're right. I was thinking of the -AC version.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

p.s. NOTE: You should take note of the MoCA channel being used by the Mini when it is connected to the foreign MoCA network --- and avoid/skip using that channel number when manually configuring your Roamio & Mini.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

thyname said:


> I was not talking about disappearing for today - rather disappearing forever.


I know; I was just trying to be humorless.



thyname said:


> What TV do you have in mind?


Some variation of a 50" Samsung, priced $450-650-ish.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mreaves53 said:


> Is there anyway I can force the Mini to connect to my network? *If not, will attaching a POE filter at the box solve my problem?*


You'll want to review the multi-dwelling portion of my earlier post, *here*.

You *will* want/need a PoE MoCA filter installed, but properly installing a MoCA filter may not be possible if all your cable lines don't route to a single, isolated splitter dedicated to your apartment. Again, see the above multi-dwelling info, and post back if you have questions.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> First, one other thing I just thought of that also would have been useful in identifying your MoCA connection to a foreign entity... check your MoCA connection stats on your Mini. Via the MoCA stats you can see the other MoCA nodes visible, their transmission and power levels, as well as their MAC addresses. See:
> Checking MoCA connection quality​


I'd be interested in hearing/seeing what MAC addresses are reported for the MoCA nodes when viewing your TiVo Mini's MoCA stats. I'd also be interested in seeing the MAC addresses for your Arris SBG6580's WAN & LAN ports (and wireless LAN, if easily found).

Just want to make sure that thing isn't doing MoCA. (mdavej has made me paranoid.)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> [*]WARNING: Increasing MoCA channels reduces the odds of MoCA connectivity if using sub-compliant splitters, amps, etc., as the higher channels move further and further away from the specs for a common cable coax splitter.


For example... Note that upgrading their splitter to a MoCA-compatible model and getting a PoE MoCA filter in place has apparently just-now resolved the other TCFer's MoCA connection problem for their Mini.

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10983020


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mdavej said:


> You're right. I was thinking of the -AC version.


Ah, yes, this guy... SBG6782-AC


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> You'll want to review the multi-dwelling portion of my earlier post, *here*.
> 
> You *will* want/need a PoE MoCA filter installed, but properly installing a MoCA filter may not be possible if all your cable lines don't route to a single, isolated splitter dedicated to your apartment. Again, see the above multi-dwelling info, and post back if you have questions.


Oh, to be clear, your cable provider should reconnect that equipment so that you and your neighbors aren't conflicting, including isolating the apartments and getting PoE MoCA filters installed for each apartment, as needed. If you're able to get it done, great, but I'd press Comcast to get their lines properly wired so that your home isn't being flooded by someone else's MoCA network -- :edit: especially since it appears that it is likely Comcast/Xfinity X1 gear (see: Arris, Technicolor MACs in followup post) to which your Mini is connecting.


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## mreaves53 (Feb 9, 2009)

Here are photos of the mini when connected to the strange MoCA network.

If I read your post correctly, you think I might force the mini to connect to my MoCA by designating a specific channel on both the Roamio and the mini. Otherwise the only way to solve the problem is to install a POE filter at the incoming location and possibly a MoCA compliant spliter.

I have looked at the Arris closely and I do not see anything that suggests it can create it's own MoCA network. 

When the mini is connected to the strange MoCA network, there is no client with the mini's MAC address showing in my router's DHCP table.

Thanks,


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Hi,
It is possible that the OP's apartment is incorrectly wired, it is more likely that it is correctly wired/isolated, but lacks a proper MoCA filter installed on his line(s). In the latter case, his mini is bleeding over to another neighbor's MoCA and connecting to his non-MoCA filter installation. This is my guess going in. 
Temporarily, until you can get Comcast out to install some missing filters, I would try enabling "encryption" on all the Tivos including the problem mini. I would also configure the network settings manually on the problem mini to force it to use the same subnet/etc. as the rest of his Tivos. Final step would be to bump up the MoCA channel one or 2 channels on all of his Tivos.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mreaves53 said:


> Here are photos of the mini when connected to the strange MoCA network.


Thanks. Good info. Images indicate:

foreign MoCA network is using channel 15
MoCA circuits are having to work pretty hard to maintain the connection, given the TX power estimates = 3.00 (I believe that's the max power allowed, a doubling, as opposed to a -30.0 dBm minimum power level.)
pretty poor PHY rates
MAC addresses looked-up via Wireshark lookup tool
It'll be very interesting to see your stats *IF* you're able to connect to the Roamio.








.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mreaves53 said:


> If I read your post correctly, you think I might force the mini to connect to my MoCA by designating a specific channel on both the Roamio and the mini.


Correct, with the stipulation that you also *enable MoCA privacy* -- and, based on the images you provided, *avoid use of channel 15*, as that's the channel in use by the foreign MoCA network. In fact, you'll likely want to avoid channel 17, as well, to keep a buffer between your network and the one on channel 15.

edit: Oh, also, here's some add'l info re: the available MoCA channels, from a previous posting:


krkaufman said:


> Yes, you'll find it through the "Change network settings" option:
> TiVo Central
> > ...
> > Change network settings
> ...





mreaves53 said:


> Otherwise the only way to solve the problem is to install a POE filter at the incoming location and possibly a MoCA compliant spliter.


It's not so much a case of "otherwise" as "until." You'll still want/need to:

ensure the coax lines to your rooms are isolated from the rest of the building;
do the above using a MoCA-compatible splitter;
and get a PoE MoCA filter in place on the input to this splitter.
Connecting via a manually configured MoCA channel with privacy enabled is a temporary solution, only -- and with fingers crossed that it's even that. Given the rates and power levels shown in your MoCA stats images, it may be a long shot to get any kind of connection to the Roamio without the proper components in place to strengthen and secure your MoCA signals.



mreaves53 said:


> I have looked at the Arris closely and I do not see anything that suggests it can create it's own MoCA network.


Thanks for the feedback. (That issue was resolved -- my fears allayed -- when we figured out that mdavej was thinking of a different gateway model.)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

fcfc2 said:


> I would also configure the network settings manually on the problem mini to force it to use the same subnet/etc. as the rest of his Tivos. Final step would be to bump up the MoCA channel one or 2 channels on all of his Tivos.


Agreed and confirmed on the "connecting to neighbor's MoCA" front.

The manual IP settings (IP, subnet, gateway, DNS) shouldn't be necessary *IF* they can get the Mini to connect to their Roamio MoCA bridge, using the manual MoCA configuration approach -- but is certainly an option, as many people find manually setting this IP info helps resolve some networking issues.


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## mreaves53 (Feb 9, 2009)

Trying to set a separate channel and encryption along with a static ip, subnet and DNS did not work. It stopped me from connecting to the foreign MoCA, but the Mini would not connect to my Roamio.

I have contacted Comcast and they are rolling a truck to install the POE filters on Tuesday.

Once again, thank you for all of your information and suggestions.

Thanks,


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Thanks for the update.



mreaves53 said:


> I have contacted Comcast and they are rolling a truck to install the POE filters on Tuesday.
> 
> Once again, thank you for all of your information and suggestions.


Happy to help; let us know how the truck roll works out. Fingers crossed that they do the job right -- and using MoCA-compatible splitters on your side of your PoE MoCA filter.


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## mreaves53 (Feb 9, 2009)

Comcast truck roll could not have gone any better. Technician was on time, courteous and very knowledgeable. He know exactly what I was talking about with the MoCA network. 

He isolated my connections in the box, installed the POE filers and MoCA compliant splitters. Before he left, he had me test the network and boom, my Mini now sees my Roamio.

I know Comcast has gotten a bad rap in the past, but today I have nothing but high praises for a company trying hard to provide great customer service.

Once again, thanks for all the help from the forum members.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mreaves53 said:


> Comcast truck roll could not have gone any better. ...
> 
> He isolated my connections in the box, installed the POE filers and MoCA compliant splitters. Before he left, he had me test the network and boom, my Mini now sees my Roamio.


Great to hear! Happy viewing... (Oh, and thanks for the feedback!)

p.s. If/when you have the time & inclination, I'd be interested in hearing what you're now seeing for MoCA stats (channel, TX/RX PHY rates, TX/RX power estimates -- or just screenshots, like before). Also, now that your MoCA network is isolated, you should be able to reset your MoCA devices to 'Auto' channel and sans privacy (if you haven't already!). See: Checking MoCA connection quality.


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## mreaves53 (Feb 9, 2009)

Here are screen shots showing my MoCA numbers now.

Thanks,


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Thanks for the info.

I've never seen a power estimate right at 0.0 dBm (i.e. no boost or reduction in the normal MoCA signal). Max boost is +3.0 dBm and max reduction is -30.0 dBm.

That you're not seeing a reduction may mean there's room for improvement in your coax plant, possibly checking your connections and double-checking that your splitters are all MoCA-compliant. YMMV.

Happy MoCA'ing.


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