# Major streaming issue: TiVos can't stream 1080i shows?



## tonyquan (Feb 26, 2003)

Like many of you've I've been frustrated by the TiVo apps inability to consistently stream shows from my TiVo. However, I've taken the time to experiment more and I believe I understand the pattern behind the failures. I'm posting here to see if others see a similar pattern.

First, let me explain my setup:


Tivo Roamio OTA on 20.4.7a
Tivo Stream device on 20.4.6a stream software
iOS 3.5.3 app on iPhone 6 and iPad Mini 2
Android 3.0.0 app on Moto X (2014)

Obviously since I have a Roamio OTA I'm limited to recording OTA television, and as you'd expect most of what I record are primetime programs on the big 4 networks (ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox)

After spending some time on the problem what I noticed was that certain shows seemed to more consistently stream properly. After playing around more, I noticed it was the ABC and Fox shows that typically would stream properly. I thought about this, and realized that ABC and Fox broadcast in 720p, and CBS and NBC broadcast in 1080i http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-definition_television_in_the_United_States so there could be a pattern in place.

To prove this, I power cycled my TiVo Stream, and streamed only ABC and Fox programs. 100% of all the ABC and Fox programs I have (all 720p) streamed properly (and I have quite a few). However after another power cycle, 100% of all of the CBS and NBC programs I had failed streaming in various ways, typically with errors in the TiVo apps on both iOS and Android. On iOS the typical error was the "low bandwidth" error, on Android, a "Please check your network and try again" error.

I finally decided to watch carefully what happens at the TiVo Stream's status page at http://ip_addr:49152/sysinfo while playing a show from one of the 1080i networks (replace ip_addr with the IP address of your TiVo Stream) I noticed while trying with the 1080i programs, some of the 1080i programs would cause the Tivo Stream device to crash and reboot. After trying to stream some of the 1080i programs I have, the status page of the Stream would actually say that the device went from "Streaming State: Ready" to "Streaming State: Offline" and shortly thereafter would stop responding to pings over the network. The device appears to be rebooting, and after 2-3 minutes comes back up and works again (of course any attempts to stream while the device is down fail). I believe this explains the behavior some of you observe, that after some time streaming works again. It might take longer if you repeatedly try to stream 1080i shows of course because you might be making your Stream reboot repeatedly. Not all 1080i shows would necessarily crash the device in my tests, but all 1080i shows failed to stream.

I'm not sure if the same thing happens on Roamio devices where the Stream hardware is built in as I can't test this directly, but if you can, try to do so. It's certainly more difficult to reboot the Stream hardware separately if you have a Roamio where the Stream is built in though.

Since I can consistently reproduce this and it's very clearly associated with one type of program over another, I think I have enough to go to TiVo with. However, I would strongly appreciate it if anyone else could reproduce my experience.

One further update: My Moto X seems slightly more tolerant that my iPhone, one 1080i show plays on it that the iPhone can't play. However I still believe there's something fundamentally wrong with the Stream software on the 1080i programs.


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## tonyquan (Feb 26, 2003)

BTW, yes I have confirmed that the Roamio and Stream device are on the same wired network in my home. It did occur to me that this could be the reason for failures with a higher resolution stream.


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## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

Well I can try here with my Roamio Plus:

Tivo Roamio Plus on 20.4.7a built in Tivo Stream 20.4.6a
iOS 3.5.3 app on iPhone 6 and iPad Mini 2

You can typically see if a show is 1080i vs 720p by playing it on the Roamio itself and pressing Info....it should show there.

Right now I'm streaming last nights Late Show with Jimmy Fallon from NBC to my iPad Mini 2. Confirmed it's 1080i.

So far I'm 20 minutes in with no issues. Stream status page shows:

Streaming State:	Ready
Transcode Status:	Running
System Power:	Normal (1245s)
System Temp:	52 C

What's your stream Temp get to during streaming? Is it overheating?

I'll let this run and see if anything happens. 

I don't think we've seen the issue. My wife streams in the house Days of our Lives a bunch and that's NBC.

I'll report back.

Also, in the iOS app, if you swipe with two fingers from left to right on the screen....it will show bitrate and health info. Take a look and see what that says when streaming. For me right now it's:
Video Bitrate: 2240000
Resolution: 1280x720
XC Bitrate: changes constantly
Program Bitrate: changes constantly
DVR Bitrate: changes constantly
Health: 100

EDIT: I'll also try to push my stream. Right now I'm streaming three 1080i shows to three difference devices at once.


-Kevin


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

While I don't have a dog in this hunt, I find it fascinating. However, the original content, be it OTA or cable, can vary greatly for any network/channel. But I will be following this thread with great interest. True, OTA should be a pretty fixed bit rate, but I don't have the luxury of testing that without moving. Good luck.

52C is pretty warm!


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## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

JoeKustra said:


> 52C is pretty warm!


Up to 59C right now with the 3 streams. Granted I think it started 42C with the first stream. (this is the temp from the stream status page)

MBT on the Roamio is at 42.

Only thing so far I notice is when streaming one show, Health is pretty much locked at 100. With 3 streams at once, the health on all fluctuates, 50, 54, 88, etc.

-Kevin


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## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

Update:

I just streamed for about 1 hour 45 minutes three simultaneous streams (all 1080i). On the 1 hour shows, I did drag the slider back to start over again.

During this time, I had no issues.

Saw my stream temp peak at 61C.

Edit: stream down to 38C.

-Kevin


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## tonyquan (Feb 26, 2003)

kbmb said:


> Update:
> 
> I just streamed for about 1 hour 45 minutes three simultaneous streams (all 1080i). On the 1 hour shows, I did drag the slider back to start over again.
> 
> ...


kbmb,

Thanks for trying this out. For me, it's not strictly a temperature issue, and the streaming failures are usually right at the start of the show. I don't have to wait minutes.

For example, I have a recording of the finale show of David Letterman. That recording crashes the Tivo Stream as soon as you press "Watch on iPhone". Temperature of the stream device is at 50C before it crashes and stops reporting temperature, not bad at all.

I found one 1080i show that plays after a fashion but only with really bad stuttering and pausing. for that one the resolution is 480x270 but I see the Health number you mention vary all the way from 100 to 0. Video bitrate is 2240000. Device temp goes to 70C.

Assuming your shows are also OTA shows, a big difference between you and I is that your Stream is built into the TiVo. I have an external one (my Roamio is the OTA model), so perhaps that's the reason for the difference?

I'd really like someone with an external stream to test as well, ideally spending as much time as you did!


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## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

tonyquan said:


> kbmb,
> 
> Thanks for trying this out. For me, it's not strictly a temperature issue, and the streaming failures are usually right at the start of the show. I don't have to wait minutes.
> 
> ...


FYI I am not OTA.....I'm Comcast Cable. One of the shows I did stream was the Letterman finale however.

Sounding to me like there is something up with your stream. 70C seems really high for a standalone stream only doing a single stream.

I think you should definitely call Tivo and see if they can replace the stream.

-Kevin


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## tonyquan (Feb 26, 2003)

OK, I figured this out. It appears TiVos are extremely sensitive to the overall network bandwidth and in some cases push to the limit of recommended ones.

Like many of you, I use MoCA to provide Ethernet over coax in the house (house has no built in wired Ethernet, and using an external Stream requires both the TiVo and the Stream to be on wired ports). TiVo actually recommends MoCA themselves in such cases.

My MoCA device on the TV/TiVo side provides 4 network ports, and I had already used all 4. So I connected the Stream directly to my router (still on the same wired network). This had always worked fine in the past when I used the Stream with a Premiere. I had always heard it is fine typically to put your Stream on any other wired network port in the house.

However, with the Roamio, this no longer works. My guess is that the Roamio (with it's newer hardware over the Premiere) is capable of pushing much more data out its Ethernet port than the Premiere was. This is great/allows better streaming, but means you're pushing the limits here.

To see if this was the case, I put the Stream on the same MoCA switch that the TiVo is on. Now all shows are fine (720p, 1080i, etc)

So my advice here, if you have an external Stream: put it on the same switch/network device that your TiVo itself is on! It will save you a lot of headache.

Now I have to get another Ethernet switch for my TV area to accommodate all my devices. Fun.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

Is this other switch a gigabit switch? The Roamio's have (I'm pretty sure) gigabit support (not that they ever reach it, but they certainly do better than the old connections).


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## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

tomhorsley said:


> Is this other switch a gigabit switch? The Roamio's have (I'm pretty sure) gigabit support (not that they ever reach it, but they certainly do better than the old connections).


I believe only the Roamio Plus and Pro have gigabit ethernet. The standalone stream has gigabit ethernet.

-Kevin


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## tonyquan (Feb 26, 2003)

tomhorsley said:


> Is this other switch a gigabit switch? The Roamio's have (I'm pretty sure) gigabit support (not that they ever reach it, but they certainly do better than the old connections).


Everything on my network is gigabit. The MoCA standard can never get up to gigabit speeds though, tops out at 270 Mbps (phy rate) or 170 Mbps (MAC rate or Throughput) So that segment of the network is limited. I believe that's where I was capping out because the way I had set it up, traffic between the Tivo and the Stream would have to transit the MoCA segment. Now, traffic between the TiVo and the Stream stay on the same switch and the upper limit would be whatever the two devices can speak to each other.


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## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

kbmb said:


> Up to 59C right now with the 3 streams. Granted I think it started 42C with the first stream. (this is the temp from the stream status page)
> 
> MBT on the Roamio is at 42.
> 
> ...


You guys think that's warm? My standalone Stream hits 70 while streaming to just one iPad in house.


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## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

kbmb said:


> I believe only the Roamio Plus and Pro have gigabit ethernet. The standalone stream has gigabit ethernet.
> 
> -Kevin


Correct, all three devices you mentioned have gigabit.


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## tonyquan (Feb 26, 2003)

JWhites said:


> You guys think that's warm? My standalone Stream hits 70 while streaming to just one iPad in house.


Yup, my standalone stream reaches 70C when doing one stream as well. I guess since the standalone is outside and with it's own fan, perhaps they were OK with it getting hotter  But it doesn't fail even at those higher temperatures. As I said, my problem was 100% solved just by rearranging the network topology.


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