# Screen 'cropping'



## Buzby (Feb 21, 2011)

Just noticed this as my list of recorded shows lengthens... is there an issue with the screen size? (as far as the Tivo display is concerned?).

On the S1 you always got a scroll arrow to show when there were more titles than would fit on screen. On my TiVo - correctly set up for 16:9, has the titles falling off the bottom of the screen, and cosmetically it looks a complete mess.

Anyone else having the same issue?


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## Cata (Dec 12, 2005)

It looks like it's a standard part of the interface. You'll see the same approach if you search for shows and have a long list to choose from.


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## Tony Hoyle (Apr 1, 2002)

Confused me to start with.. it's supposed to be clever I think. Just looks wrong IMO.


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## Mimizuku no Lew (Jan 3, 2011)

Looks like it's the same on the Premiere. In the second screenshot the titles fade at the bottom of the screen.

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/03/tivo-premiere-series-4-impressions-like-imdb-on-tv/


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## Digital Fanatic (Feb 16, 2011)

you get used to it... I don't think it looks a "mess" though


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## Buzby (Feb 21, 2011)

OK then, 'unprofessional'. It certainly isn't a 'tidy' solution - just a consequence of a carp implementation when previously, they had taken care over screen esthetics.


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## JayAy (Jan 31, 2011)

Buzby said:


> just a consequence of a carp implementation


I agree - I've never seen a good UI developed by a freshwater fish


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## Brangdon (Feb 9, 2001)

To me it looks like they went to a lot of trouble over the screen aesthetics. That fading-out effect didn't happen on its own. They've made it obvious that there is more content than will fit on the screen, and it's also space-efficient, which adding scroll bars or arrows might not be.

It took getting used to. The only real flaw for me was that it wasn't immediately obvious that I could scroll; I thought it was clipped and the extra content lost. You soon figure it out when cursoring down, though, and once you realise you don't forget.


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## Buzby (Feb 21, 2011)

I s'pose we'll never know the real answer. The 'fading' (to me) jusr comes across as a 'anything outwith the lower border should be dimmed' - but then, if genuinely the case, shouldn't the upper section - once the scrolling has taken place ALSO be dimmed, to be consistent? This would give the appearance that it was planned that way and not a mistake?

If I see any line of text horizontally truncated, I immediately conclude the screen is incorrectly set up (which it isn't). As the background explosion in a red paint factory is consistent across all screens, they got that bit right, but I'm just not a fan of these split text lines, faded or otherwise!


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Buzby said:


> I s'pose we'll never know the real answer. The 'fading' (to me) jusr comes across as a 'anything outwith the lower border should be dimmed' - but then, if genuinely the case, shouldn't the upper section - once the scrolling has taken place ALSO be dimmed, to be consistent?


No, because that's the stuff you _want_ to see.



> This would give the appearance that it was planned that way and not a mistake?


I have never thought if it as a mistake and - with respect - cannot see how anyone could.


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## Buzby (Feb 21, 2011)

So, stuff symmetry and introduce a visual interpretation that has half-screens of unreadable text (due to horizontal trunkation and dimming)? 

Perhaps it is a subjective argument, but to my mind where on-screen text should be clear and respected so that it can be read (as it was with the S1's) 

I simply don't believe this is progress, as I cannot see what the benefit can be, other than to squeeze in a dimmed half-line of unreadable text!


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Most of it _is_ readable; certainly 99% of it. As Brangdon said in his post, it's a way to do without the scroll-bars/up-and-down-arrows or some other indication that there is more text available than can fit on the screen.

Like I said, I think it works nicely.


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## Buzby (Feb 21, 2011)

I'll agree there is less end-of-line cutting with the usual ... added, but this is attribututed to the high-res screen and smaller typeface permitting more characters to be displayed. But this isn't my beef - as lines don't drifet off any of the other three sides of the frame, allowing it to happen to one is perverse IMO, but then - I always liked a screen to be completely readable, not force user action to take additional action to read or view it. 

As for space for scroll bars, I dislike them, but I doubt this was the reason, a typeface colour change could impart the same informatin to the viewer.

I'm glad you find it lovely, as an S1 user, it irritates the pants off me. At least there are no V+ banners competing for space.... yet.


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## deshepherd (Nov 30, 2000)

cwaring said:


> Most of it _is_ readable; certainly 99% of it. As Brangdon said in his post, it's a way to do without the scroll-bars/up-and-down-arrows or some other indication that there is more text available than can fit on the screen.
> 
> Like I said, I think it works nicely.


Think if the list scrolled as soon as you hit the bottom item then it would feel seamless ... problem is that it takes a second or two before the list redisplays with the next set of titles so (at least for me) the impression is that you've scrolled down through the list of items onto something that you should be able to see but for some reason has fallen off the bottom of the screen. Just doesn't feel intuitive.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Buzby said:


> ...but then - I always liked a screen to be completely readable, not force user action to take additional action to read or view it.


So only one page of information ever? Rather difficult with all the data a Tivo uses, wouldn't you say?



> As for space for scroll bars, I dislike them, but I doubt this was the reason, *a typeface colour change* could impart the same informatin to the viewer.


Then there's be complaints of "why is some text a different colour"? 



> I'm glad you find it lovely, as an S1 user, it irritates the pants off me.


Of course, I too am a former S1 user 



> At least there are no V+ banners competing for space.... yet.


That's what the Discovery Bar is there for


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## Buzby (Feb 21, 2011)

1) No, - the screenful could scroll slowly like TV credits, then rolled forward or back as required. Sorry if you cannot think out of the box...

2) Funny, most intelligent folk would treat it as a challenge to discover why. So you believe the enevlope icon at Messages is causing problems to users? Oh, of course, it's in the User Manual.... I know, they could put the explanation on the typeface colour change there... but too radical a suggestion.

3) Suggest you find a CRT TV and stretch the vertical hold so that it over-scans, you'll be in heaven then....

4) Not on my machine, it was the first thing I turned off...


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Buzby said:


> 1) No, - the screenful could scroll slowly like TV credits, then rolled forward or back as required. Sorry if you cannot think out of the box...


There is more than one way to achieve the same goal. I personally would _hate_ the way you have just suggested.



> 2) Funny, most intelligent folk would treat it as a challenge to discover why.


We're talking about the average TV user. Intelligence doesn't come into it 

What I mean is that these things should be simply and intuitive. You shouldn't _have_ to _think_ about it.



> So you believe the enevlope icon at Messages is causing problems to users?


Where did I ever say that? Most people have a computer of some description and will know what an icon is. Not sure what that has to do with the current debate though.



> Oh, of course, it's in the User Manual.... I know, they could put the explanation on the typeface colour change there... but too radical a suggestion.


One less thing to explain if they go with something more obvious.

"Oh look, the programme titles go off the bottom of the screen. I guess I just need to scroll down to see them."

Or do _you_ think that people aren't intelligent enough to realise that _without_ having it explained to them?



> 3) Suggest you find a CRT TV and stretch the vertical hold so that it over-scans, you'll be in heaven then....


Again... not seeing the relevence.



> 4) Not on my machine, it was the first thing I turned off...


Really? How? As far as I know you cannot turn off the Discovery Bar.


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## Brangdon (Feb 9, 2001)

Buzby said:


> I s'pose we'll never know the real answer. The 'fading' (to me) jusr comes across as a 'anything outwith the lower border should be dimmed' - but then, if genuinely the case, shouldn't the upper section - once the scrolling has taken place ALSO be dimmed, to be consistent?


Indeed. And that's what happens, for me. On My Shows, for example, the top item is both truncated and noticeably dimmer than the next item down, when I've scrolled to the last item.



Buzby said:


> As for space for scroll bars, I dislike them, but I doubt this was the reason, a typeface colour change could impart the same informatin to the viewer.


The typeface does change colour.



> If I see any line of text horizontally truncated, I immediately conclude the screen is incorrectly set up (which it isn't).


But the top line of My Shows isn't at an edge of the screen.

The bottom lines are at an edge, but the last two visible are dimmed progressively, which I think indicates they are not just being clipped by the edge.



Buzby said:


> 1) No, - the screenful could scroll slowly like TV credits, then rolled forward or back as required.


I don't like text to move while I'm trying to read it.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Brangdon said:


> I don't like text to move while I'm trying to read it.


That was my point, but badly expressed


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

This thread would benefit from some relevant screenshots for the rest of us who don't have VMTivo!


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Done!


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

How legible is that on an SD TV over SCART?

The fade off St he bottom looks logical, but did someone say if you scroll down the entry at the top DOESN'T fade?


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

That's an official screenshot and I don't have enough on my Tivo to answer the question. However, it's perfectly legible on a CRT. The 'lower', non-HD ones are too. They just don't look as nice


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## VirginMediaPhil (Nov 27, 2009)

Can you actually switch to the old TiVo menus for 4:3 TVs? That would be interesting as they are supposedly a lot faster.


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## Brangdon (Feb 9, 2001)

TCM2007 said:


> The fade off St he bottom looks logical, but did someone say if you scroll down the entry at the top DOESN'T fade?


It does fade on mine. It's harder to see because there's less of it.


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

One thing that screen shot shows, apart from how 'busy' the interface is, is that it no longer shows which channel programmes were recorded from.

Using the example of Top Gear, if those 9 shows were record via a Wishlist, it might be nice to know which were from Dave and which from BBC2.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

ericd121 said:


> One thing that screen shot shows, apart from how 'busy' the interface is, is that it no longer shows which channel programmes were recorded from.


Erm... look again  (Hint: right-hand side!))

Clue: The ep of Mythbusters was recorded from the Discovery Channel.


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## Buzby (Feb 21, 2011)

There IS nothing down the right hand side - unless you include the junk info that has nothing to do with the programmes listed. You ONLY see the channel when you actually select the programme, THEN the RH screen will show the channel it recorded from.

Which is unlike the S1 which provided a channel icon alongside the programe title without you having to drill down and select the programme itself.


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## Buzby (Feb 21, 2011)

Brangdon said:


> I don't like text to move while I'm trying to read it.


You must find TV credits most disconcerting then. A scrolling display is just one option, as could be the speed or scroll, or a colour change. Indeed there are already cursor arrows shown on the VM Tivo, so it hasn't been dispensed with. The fading out of a split line is still incongrouous, nevertheless.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Buzby said:


> There IS nothing down the right hand side - unless you include the junk info that has nothing to do with the programmes listed.


Sorry. You're wrong. Look again. The info on the RH-side *is* the prog details for the highlighted show (blue outline). In this case, Mythbusters, recorded off the Discovery Channel. (Black oval at bottom)


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## Buzby (Feb 21, 2011)

What about shameless, top gear etc? You;ve still got to work the highlight bar down. 

Something you DIDN'T need to do on the S1.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

The joy of TiVo was the clarity ond simplicity of its interface. This mess of garishness and promotions looks a real step backwards to me.

You can criticise the MC7 interface, but it's much closer to the S1's directness:


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Buzby said:


> What about shameless, top gear etc? You;ve still got to work the highlight bar down. Something you DIDN'T need to do on the S1.


Never said it was perfect 


TCM2007 said:


> You can criticise the MC7 interface..


Programme names cut off and you _still_ have to highlight them to get broadcast time and channel; as you do with the new Tivo. Does look nice though


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

There are other views which don't cut the name off.

In the VM TiVo, what do the folders look like? This is the Win7 version:


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> In the VM TiVo, what do the folders look like?


Haven't recorded enough to use them yet


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## kmusgrave (Oct 13, 2000)

cwaring said:


> Haven't recorded enough to use them yet


Strange. Almost all of mine are in folders - all wishlists, season passes, etc.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

You can flip between folder view and traditional "flat" view (like old tivos).
Just press the blue button (groups).

Maybe carl hasn't turned that on - I can't remember which is the default.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

I have switched it on but it makes no difference if you only have one episode of anything on your Tivo.


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## Buzby (Feb 21, 2011)

Folders appears to be the default afer a reset. I switched to the Titles A-Z but this became unweildy sue to the length of the scrolling. Folder names option prevents the channel being shown, and in the case of Law & Order on a variety of channels, you only see the channel when the title of the episode is selected.

Not perfect  But better than the V+.


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## Brangdon (Feb 9, 2001)

cwaring said:


> I have switched it on but it makes no difference if you only have one episode of anything on your Tivo.


Do you not have two folders for Recently Deleted and Suggestions? Those are getting pretty big on my box.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Ahhh! D'oh! Yes to the former; no to the latter, as I don't have suggestions switched on.


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## kmusgrave (Oct 13, 2000)

cwaring said:


> I have switched it on but it makes no difference if you only have one episode of anything on your Tivo.


I have several folders with only 1 episode in, so not sure why yours is different? We must have them set up differently.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

I wasn't aware you could set them up differently. I thought they were just either on or off


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## cyril (Sep 5, 2001)

cwaring said:


> Sorry. You're wrong. Look again. The info on the RH-side *is* the prog details for the highlighted show (blue outline). In this case, Mythbusters, recorded off the Discovery Channel. (Black oval at bottom)


I prefer the s1 style as you could see all channels in the whole list at a single glance thanks to the channel icons.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

I don't really care which channel it was recorded from


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## cyril (Sep 5, 2001)

I care if it's HD or if it's a no-advert channel or one with no DOG.
If i have the same show recorded on different channels I can pick the nicer HD , advert-free and DOG-free version.


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