# Increase swap size for 500GB?



## rmcelwee (Apr 6, 2001)

I've done some searches but there is just too many posts on here and I can't find what I need. The closest I have found is the discussion here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3825639&&#post3825639

I just upgraded my 120GB series1 to 500GB and retained the recordings. I goofed and only set the swap file to 137MB.

1) What is everyone's opinion on if I should increase this? What happens if I don't?

2) Is it possible to increase it AFTER I have already upgraded (I'm watching my Tivo now)? How?

Many many thanks!


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## funtoupgrade (Mar 15, 2005)

You are going to get mixed opinions on this. My philosophy is what can it harm by making it bigger? 250 is the standard recommended size for a 500GB and be sure you use the -r 4 switch in the restore command.


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## supasta (May 6, 2006)

I left my 500GB drive at a 137 swap space. Worked perfectly. -r 4 included.


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## JamieP (Aug 3, 2004)

Keep in mind it is a Series1. Recent experiences with Series2 software may or may not be applicable to a Series1. The original "1MB of swap for each 2GB of disk" rule of thumb was geared towards a Series1, and I believe that even Lou at DVRUpgrade recommends a larger swap on Series1 models with large disks. Also, a Series1 requires a kernel upgrade, both to recognize the full size of the large disk, and to handle the larger swap. If the OP didn't upgrade the kernel too, it's likely to be a problem.

To the OP: it isn't possible to increase the size after the fact. Your best bet is to do the upgrade again if you are concerned about it.


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

JamieP said:


> Keep in mind it is a Series1. Recent experiences with Series2 software may or may not be applicable to a Series1. The original "1MB of swap for each 2GB of disk" rule of thumb was geared towards a Series1, and I believe that even Lou at DVRUpgrade recommends a larger swap on Series1 models with large disks. Also, a Series1 requires a kernel upgrade, both to recognize the full size of the large disk, and to handle the larger swap. If the OP didn't upgrade the kernel too, it's likely to be a problem.
> 
> To the OP: it isn't possible to increase the size after the fact. Your best bet is to do the upgrade again if you are concerned about it.


Actually, in all honesty, I really don't recommend the larger swap on the Series1. A few years ago, there was so much HYPE associated with the larger swap issue that we actually implemented larger swap and marketed larger swap on these models, but that was just because so many people were concerned about it.

From practical standpoint, I've yet to any significant benefit (other than that small possiblity of recovering from a GSOD and then being able to rescue the drive, which is rare) in recommending anyone go out of their way to create that larger swap - keeping in mind that the downside (making a mistake and ending up with NO swap) is greater than the upside.

To each his/her own, though - it can't hurt to have it...


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## JamieP (Aug 3, 2004)

tivoupgrade said:


> Actually, in all honesty, I really don't recommend the larger swap on the Series1. A few years ago, there was so much HYPE associated with the larger swap issue that we actually implemented larger swap and marketed larger swap on these models, but that was just because so many people were concerned about it.
> 
> From practical standpoint, I've yet to any significant benefit (other than that small possiblity of recovering from a GSOD and then being able to rescue the drive, which is rare) in recommending anyone go out of their way to create that larger swap - keeping in mind that the downside (making a mistake and ending up with NO swap) is greater than the upside.
> 
> To each his/her own, though - it can't hurt to have it...


Ok. Sorry to misrepresent your position. I wasn't around when Series1's were current, but I thought there was a consensus of the need on the Series1 and it was only the Series2 were the need had never been verified. I guess I got this idea from reading Todd Miller's pages, but that's just one mans experience/opinion in any case.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Swap file size on the series 1 units had always been limited to 127MB due to issues with MFS Tools, IIRC. I don't believe mkswap or tpip were used until later on with the series 2 models. I can't recall what anyone did with large drives and an LBA48-aware kernel with the S1's with respect to larger swap files but I don't believe anyone ever really raised the issue since there wasn't much that could be done about it at the time. I've never used anything larger than a 120GB drive in any S1 DTivo so I can't say what anyone else would be using to increase their swap files.


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## JamieP (Aug 3, 2004)

mr.unnatural said:


> Swap file size on the series 1 units had always been limited to 127MB due to issues with MFS Tools, IIRC. I don't believe mkswap or tpip were used until later on with the series 2 models. I can't recall what anyone did with large drives and an LBA48-aware kernel with the S1's with respect to larger swap files but I don't believe anyone ever really raised the issue since there wasn't much that could be done about it at the time. I've never used anything larger than a 120GB drive in any S1 DTivo so I can't say what anyone else would be using to increase their swap files.


tpip was specifically developed for the Series 1. Go look at Todd Miller's site: link and see some of his TCF posts on the initial work on lba48 support for the Series1: link. He also hacked mkswap to produce big endian swap signatures. There's mention of large swap on Series1s in both places.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Thanks for the info. I never tinkered with LBA48 kernels until the S2 DTivos (more specifically, the HDTivos) so I didn't follow the development of tpip or mkswap at the time I was playing with my S1 DTivos.


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

JamieP said:


> Ok. Sorry to misrepresent your position. I wasn't around when Series1's were current, but I thought there was a consensus of the need on the Series1 and it was only the Series2 were the need had never been verified. I guess I got this idea from reading Todd Miller's pages, but that's just one mans experience/opinion in any case.


Jamie - no apologies needed at all - I don't think I ever stated it that way before - in fact, I was sort of waiting for someone to notice that here on TCF I've always been the "you don't need a large swap guy" - yet for several years, we've been selling kits with larger swap (just to differentiate from the competition and placate those who still worry about it!" Confusing? 

Because some of these issues are so old, my memory may not be serving me correctly here - I think I still remember robert s sort of escalating the urgency of not having a large swap back when folks starting playing around with 2 x 160GB drive configurations in their Series1 units -- as I recall, this was the first configuration where recovery from a GSOD was impossible without a larger than the default swap. And because we were the only folks offering anything larger than a 2x120GB configuration, there was a lot of FUD associated with that.

We started waiting for the "other shoe to drop" -- ie tons of customers with GSODs and a problem to solve; and about six months went by and nothing ever went wrong. 100% of the time we ever had a GSOD (which was rare), it turned out to be a defective drive... So, my opinion hardened on the issue, with the caveat that in some very small instances, recovery from the GSOD might be possible, followed by a dd_rescue or a successful mfs_backup, if one had a larger swap...

... and the FUD continued to spread (I don't think it was intentional, but the robert s posts were pretty vocal, and I think a bit intimidating. Of course I felt I was right, because my opinion was based upon empirical data at this point - his was based on 'what is right, in theory'. So be it...

.. and that is when we decided to not fight it (too hard) and put larger swap on Series1 kits. Never bothered to do it on Series2 kits because it seemed that people stopped caring or being so concerned about it in Series2-land.

Bla bla bla, I know I'm rambling... sorry...

Suffice it to say, I've heard of more than just a few stories of people thinking they were increasing swap size and winding up with no swap at all; perhaps one day we'll make a quick and dirty tool that uses the right versions of tpip (Todd Miller is an AWESOME guy btw) to do the right thing on our bootCD for people. But in all honesty, I think it would be more of a placebo than anything else...

Anyway, thx Jamie - I've always appreciated the stuff you've contributed, and I'd hate to think you think I was slighted by anything you said - totally not the case.

Thx again,
Lou


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## thechachman (Nov 28, 2004)

FWIW (if not already spotted) the new mfslive ISO that spike has put together includes lba48 awareness, fixes the bugs in mfstools, and allows expansion of drives which have reached the partitions limit ...


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## Lannister80 (Oct 6, 2005)

FWIW, I have a Series 2 with 640GB (2x320GB) of storage space, and I did NOT mess with the swap when I upgraded. 

Actually, I used the InstantCake discs, which (at that time anyway) didn't increase the swap size at all.

My Series 2 is still chugging along in this configuration after more than a year. Rock on!


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