# Big Brother 17 Live Feeds & After Dark *Spoilers*



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Warning this thread has spoilers for anything that has happened so far in the house.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

So did anyone watch last night?

James nominated Jackie & Steve
Jason nominated John & Becky
John & Becky won so Jason was dethroned


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

First impressions of the hg:

Jace & Austin or Jastin as they want to be known are completely unbearable. Jace is loud and annoying putting on a show for the cameras. Austin is basically his sidekick. They think they're running things, but others have a plan to backdoor Jace this week. I guess these 2 have Liz on their side as well. They think she is their Janelle. 

Audrey is playing way too hard making multiple alliances. She's like Amanda at the beginning of S15. Jace wants to expose her. 

Vanessa spent the night crying. She was missing home & upset that some people were mean to Steve. Not at all what I expected from her. 

Steve is as awkward as Ian, but he doesn't have the coaches to help him. 

I don't have a strong opinion on everyone else yet. Clay & John seem less annoying than I thought they would be. Meg has a surprisingly good social game. Becky seems to be on the outs. Jason & DaVonne seem to be close.


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## Ziggie (Jan 20, 2004)

I'm east coast so when good stuff is happening on the feeds, I'm usually asleep. I did catch some of them this morning and I think Jace is obnoxious (he's the guy in the hoody on the feeds up in James' face, right?)

I can't figure Austin out. Is he gay? I don't know much about him.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Ziggie said:


> I'm east coast so when good stuff is happening on the feeds, I'm usually asleep. I did catch some of them this morning and I think Jace is obnoxious (he's the guy in the hoody on the feeds up in James' face, right?)
> 
> I can't figure Austin out. Is he gay? I don't know much about him.


I'm east coast, too, but I work overnights. I can't really watch at work, but on my days off, I'm used to staying up all night anyway.

Yep, that's him. Jace is obnoxious. Austin has a gf, but he did say that she was worried that he would cheat on her with a guy so...They were both admiring how hot Clay was, and they were making fun of Jeff for having a dad body. They are kind of unintentionally funny at times. In a room full of people, they would just start whispering game talk to each other.


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## Ziggie (Jan 20, 2004)

That's for the update about Austin, RB. I saw Austin and Jace go into the room off the bathroom (what are they calling it this season?) but Jace was talking so low I couldn't make out what he was saying.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Just from what the producers presented on CBS last night Jace started becoming my least favorite. Too much superficial over the top trying to ingratiate himself to others but coming off as a jerk.

The intriguing thing about Vanessa is, how much of that was sincere (it's true she doesn't really need the money and that magnifies the importance of other things) and how much of that was game strategy. If strategy, I'd think at a certain point it becomes counter-productive and still makes her a target. Especially if DaVonne has actually recognized her and is keeping it in her back pocket.


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## Ziggie (Jan 20, 2004)

series5orpremier said:


> Just from what the producers presented on CBS last night Jace started becoming my least favorite. Too much superficial over the top trying to ingratiate himself to others but coming off as a jerk.


Like the Colorado comment?  That was his, wasn't it?


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

realityboy said:


> So did anyone watch last night?
> 
> James nominated Jackie & Steve
> Jason nominated John & Becky
> John & Becky won so James was dethroned


If John and Becky won, wouldn't they dethrone Jason, the person who nominated them?


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## Ziggie (Jan 20, 2004)

James is HOH... Jackie and Steve are nominated with a plan (we think) to backdoor Jace.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

bryhamm said:


> If John and Becky won, wouldn't they dethrone Jason, the person who nominated them?


Yep sorry. James is HoH. Stupid J names.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

realityboy said:


> First impressions of the hg:
> 
> Jace & Austin or Jastin as they want to be known are completely unbearable. Jace is loud and annoying putting on a show for the cameras. Austin is basically his sidekick.


while i appreciated the info they communicated to fans once the feeds started, you're right - their behavior is obnoxious, and social game is reckless.



> Vanessa spent the night crying. She was missing home & upset that some people were mean to Steve. Not at all what I expected from her.


this was a shocker for me, i'm hoping at least part of it was game. they've been in the house a week, if she's already this fragile she's got a long road ahead. i had hopes for her to go far this season, but just couldn't bear to watch her hours-long breakdown.


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## Ziggie (Jan 20, 2004)

My first real gripe... Shelli's teeth annoy me. Geezis, too bright much? Reminds me of Ross' teeth that glowed in the dark in Friends.


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## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

I wasn't going to check in here - and ALREADY it's gotten the better of me. HA!
I want to be surprised, and yet I want to know. 

Knowing won. 

So, a backdoor of Jace seems like a great idea. He was really over the top on the show part and I was wondering how the other houseguests were taking him. All that winking and trying to be clever. 'Rado!?! What is that? 

Did the poker dealer make any mention that she recognized the poker player? Seems she would... and might say something to the early girl alliance. 

I do really hope they can keep that on the dl and actually DO something this year. Come on, girls! You can play and strategize and not get into all that stupid *****y and jealous stuff. Do it! There's not much eye candy, so I'm hoping they'll be able to focus, for once. They make me so buggered when they can't seem to work together.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

SoBelle0 said:


> Did the poker dealer make any mention that she recognized the poker player? Seems she would... and might say something to the early girl alliance.


Not that I saw. And they showed her during prime time making snarky comments about her first impressions of other house guests, but not of Vanessa. It's starting to look like NOBODY is going to recognize Vanessa, unless DaVonne is just wearing a poker face. If she knows and says something that risks outing herself as a poker dealer.

Vanessa's game might already be self-destructing anyway, if you take everything at face value.


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## Ziggie (Jan 20, 2004)

Vanessa really lost it which surprises me. In poker, you can't get flustered. You can't let it get to you. Shame.


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

Ziggie said:


> Vanessa really lost it which surprises me. In poker, you can't get flustered. You can't let it get to you. Shame.


Unless it's part of her plan?


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Yeah, I haven't passed judgment yet. Consider a few things - what she does for a living, every one of them knew exactly when the live feed cameras were coming on, and if an emotional breakdown was going to happen the timing is suspicious. Maybe she's feeling out for empathetic people and misfits she can get on her side. She better pull out of it quickly though before she gets too much attention from everyone in the house. Or maybe she doesn't care about winning the game but instead softening up her public image with America for her Poker and Endorsement career.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

it appears that steve won pov, and he will (obviously) use it to save himself, leaving jackie and the renom on the block.

talk is leaning towards jace as the renom and target for eviction, he's been grating on a few nerves in the house the past week. there's also been occasional talk of audrey's attempts to befriend every hg, and that has her name on the radar for renom.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

a few added notes:


james picked havenots as hoh: liz, davonne, vanessa, and austin. the havenot room is filled with dentist chairs for beds this season

its looking like the twin twist is liz and her sister julia, this afternoon liz was forgetful of her actions in the house (a thrown pillow), and also looks a little clueless in conversations of other events in the house

dentist johnny mac also has an identical twin whos a podiatrist, donny mac


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

From those pictures it seems like the guy twins would be able to get away with it easily, but the girls have slightly different looks, as if Julia is a little taller with a thinner face and has had a nose job. Still, if nobody is looking too closely.... but with Liz/Julia the guys will be looking closely.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

If there were any doubts, the emotional breakdown was part of Vanessa's plan. With so many people playing the game "too hard too fast" it's forced Vanessa to jump in herself sooner than she wanted to with all the alliance maneuvering.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

pov ceremony yesterday, and as expected, steve took himself down, and james put up jace as the replacement. jace is crushed, and thinks everyone hates him. austin told jace thowing him a sympathy vote would make him a target, so this may be headed towards a "house vote", of course anything could happen by thursday.

notes - 
the hg's are catching on to audrey trying to make alliances with everyone in the house (especially austin), she needs to chill fast or she'll pay for playing so hard this early.

steve was caught lurking outside a door eavsdropping on liz and jace. he should know if you're gonna sneak around, don't get caught. there are so many people in the house, i don't know what he was thinking.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

I might like Steve more if his attempts at flirting with the girls were less creepy. I didn't see it but from your description my guess would be he's pervin on Liz and was spying to make sure something of a sexual nature wasn't happening.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

Could they introduce both twins telling each set that only they are the twin twist?


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## Honora (Oct 16, 2006)

NorthAlabama said:


> a few added notes:
> 
> 
> james picked havenots as hoh: liz, davonne, vanessa, and austin. the havenot room is filled with dentist chairs for beds this season


I have found dentists' chairs very comfortable, and have dozed off while being worked on a couple of times, and I wasn't under general anesthetic at the time.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Necromancer2006 said:


> Could they introduce both twins telling each set that only they are the twin twist?


I had thought about that. It would be the first twin twin twist. If two more people enter the game after week five they could just have more double eliminations down the road.


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

series5orpremier said:


> I might like Steve more if his attempts at flirting with the girls were less creepy. I didn't see it but from your description my guess would be he's pervin on Liz and was spying to make sure something of a sexual nature wasn't happening.


His "are you wearing space pants?" comments made me laugh.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Honora said:


> I have found dentists' chairs very comfortable, and have dozed off while being worked on a couple of times, and I wasn't under general anesthetic at the time.


austin says his legs go numb if he doesn't position just right, but he could just be whining...he's a big guy, too.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

I missed it because I was at work, but at around 1:30pm today (bb time), Audrey was called out by Day & Vanessa. I plan on watching later via flashback.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Fun prom/talent show last night with everyone except Audrey. She's just retreated to her bed after getting called out. She still sends minions out to scheme for her, but she's playing the martyr.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

very bad game play on audrey's part, looks like she can dish it out but can't take it. jace was mostly absent until he made his pleas to stay.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

becky's noms were steve & jason (audrey the target via replacement nom)
shelli's were john & da'vonne (da'vonne the target)
steve and jason won, shelli is hoh
havenots are steve, james, jason, meg
john won pov

at first shelli was thinking of meg as the replacement nom (when john takes himself off the block), but now the talk is liz...what happened with audrey going on the block!?

this weeks hoh team, from @hellataz:


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

I think it has settled back on Meg. 1st it was Liz. Then Vanessa convinced her to put up Meg instead as it would be less risk. 

Shelli was never going to put up Audrey. Becky would have, but Shelli put up John & convinced him to throw BotB do she could stay HOH. 

Tonight, Clay & Shelli formed yet another alliance. This one is with Jeff, Jackie, & John. It seemed like John & Jackie just happened to be in the room at the right time. I'm not sure of the status of their earlier alliance with Vanessa, Austin, & Liz.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

Meg has been put up as a replacement so Da'Vonne and Meg are now the nominees.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

And now Day has figured out the Twin Twist. I don't know if there's any way for her to use this info to stay, but it's impressive that she noticed.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

da'vonne has figured out the twins twist, talked it over with jason.



eta: sorry, no smeek intended, i was interrupted while posting


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Does that mean the twins have to leave?


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

i think jc announced it means julia won't be able to enter the game to play along with liz, but beyond that, i'm not sure.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Nothing happens until she is evicted. They have to survive 5 evictions to play together. If it's like S5, if Liz is evicted before the 5th eviction, Julia comes in. They just don't get to play together.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Regarding the twin twist, looks like everyone knows now, but Liz doesn't know they know.

The house guests are secretly calling them 'Thin Liz' and 'Heavy Liz' because one has larger thighs than the other.

They are talking about playing pranks on her&#8230;. Hiding her stuff and then when she asks where it is, say something like "you told us you were hiding it, don&#8217;t you remember where you put it?" 
And start calling one of the houseguests by a different name, and if she asks why they're all suddenly calling Meg "lollipop", say "what? You're the one who came up with that name."

It could be funny.

They're also talking about marking her in some way- like with nail polish or something while she's sleeping.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

There was a lot of general small talk and speculation about twin twists going back over a week ago. The producers had to have planted the idea in their heads by bringing up the topic or with subtle hints in DR, and Da finally pieced it together. Such a phony 'game'.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

Donbadabon said:


> Regarding the twin twist, looks like everyone knows now, but Liz doesn't know they know.
> 
> The house guests are secretly calling them 'Thin Liz' and 'Heavy Liz' because one has larger thighs than the other.
> 
> ...


This would be awesome


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Like I said before they should have done the twin twist with Johnny and Donny Mac because they had a good shot of going undetected even with the producer intervention. If they were going to drop hints Liz/Julia didn't have a chance. Maybe now that Liz/Julia are a distraction the house guests will still get surprised by Donny.

And now DaVonne is using her discovery to try to scare Julia into working to keep her in the house.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

JohnnyMac doesn't have a twin. The person running his Twitter just has a sense of humor.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

realityboy said:


> JohnnyMac doesn't have a twin. The person running his Twitter just has a sense of humor.


Now that is funny.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

So this may or may not have happened.

http://m.tmz.com/#Article/2015/07/10/big-brother-jeff-masturbating-video-julia


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Regardless of that, I had been thinking Jeff won't last in the game much longer and could even be in trouble this week. His multiple alliances and slight pushiness make him too much of a target.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

He didn't seem to have any facial reaction at all, not even a twitch. So I am leaning towards the did not happen.

He did tell her he put something on her though. Not sure what his end game was there.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Poor John. Perennial pawn and BOTB stooge.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Yep, John volunteered for the block again. Vanessa nominated him/James. Austin nominated Meg/Jason. Austin was dethroned.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Johnny Veto does it again. He's coming off the block and probably Jeff going up in his place for the house to decide the least appealing between James and Jeff. Unfortunately for Vanessa she may be making this big move too early because it leaves a lot of blood on her hands especially if Jeff stays and for those who are expecting her to put up Audrey. She might be able to convince James he was always just a pawn and was never in danger, if she's lucky.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

yes, making jeff the renom is a big move, but once audrey is taken off the table, who's left (and not in her alliance)? she should put jeff beside james, forget about speeches, and let the chips fall - for her it's a win/win either way.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

no big surprise, jmac saved himself with the pov, and jeff went up as the replacement nom.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Vanessa is outright diabolical. I don't know if I can believe anything she says. She's starting to play the game Audrey did in week one, only in a much more measured and rational manner. I wonder if anyone in the house realizes Vanessa should be their top priority target, but by the time enough people realize that it may be too late for all of them.


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

series5orpremier said:


> Vanessa is outright diabolical. I don't know if I can believe anything she says. She's starting to play the game Audrey did in week one, only in a much more measured and rational manner. I wonder if anyone in the house realizes Vanessa should be their top priority target, but by the time enough people realize that it may be too late for all of them.


I don't have access to the feeds. Could you please give us some examples?

TIA!


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

I hope you're doing ok there.

I'm not constantly tuned in either - just watch BBAD and the cliffs notes on the spoiler sites. She's using Liz to get the guys jealous of and angry with one another. She knows Austin has a crush on Liz and Liz isn't interested in Austin but she keeps egging Austin on to make a play for her. Austin has been driven nuts seeing Liz separately hang out in the same bed as James and then with Jeff (I suspect Vanessa had a role in suggesting Liz do that). Then she went to Steve to tell him Austin and Liz are about to break out into a full-fledged showmance and 'it's bad for our game' but there's nothing we can do about it. Then she went back to Austin to tell him Liz told Steve that Liz has a thing for nerdy guys.

Bottom line is she's creating multiple back and forth targets amongst the guys in an effort to keep advancing herself and Liz/Julia further in the game.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

series5orpremier said:


> Vanessa is outright diabolical. I don't know if I can believe anything she says. She's starting to play the game Audrey did in week one, only in a much more measured and rational manner. I wonder if anyone in the house realizes Vanessa should be their top priority target, but by the time enough people realize that it may be too late for all of them.


i was chalking it up to a bad case of hoh-itis, time will tell if she continues.

she is spending way more capital putting jeff on the block and targeting him than she needs to - making up stories, sparking fake arguments, having her alliance members spread stories to other hg's - she could have just put him up, saying "you're a threat to my game while you're in the house", and let that be it.

keeping audrey as a target sending jeff home is a smart game move and no one would have questioned her. she already had the votes, and it would have been a lot easier than risking others finding out about her shenanigans.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

bob noms:

shelli: jmac & jason
liz: james & jackie

surprisingly, jmac hasn't been asked to throw the bob comp...yet...

watching liz (& austin) with shelli (& clay) in the hoh room talking about noms was interesting last night (wonder which couple ends up hoh?).

the 4 votes for jeff to stay has vanessa in full paranoia meltdown, she's going crazy investigating who undermined her authority. it was brought up in the hoh room, too, and i thought liz did a fair job in hiding her vote.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

James and Jackie won the BOB, dethroning Liz/Julia and making themselves safe for the week. The veto machine has a chance to do it again. Jason has been a target but Audrey has been annoying Shelli lately and the only other possible back door targets not in the alliance would be Steve, Becky or Meg.


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

series5orpremier said:


> James and Jackie won the BOB, dethroning Liz/Julia and making themselves safe for the week. The veto machine has a chance to do it again. Jason has been a target but Audrey has been annoying Shelli lately and the only other possible back door targets not in the alliance would be Steve, Becky or Meg.


I hope John stays, but without winning a 3rd veto. I think that would put a target on him because he'll be seen as a competition beast.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Rumor is Vanessa won the POV. I believe last week in exchange for JMac throwing the BOB comp Vanessa promised him she'd work to make sure he at least gets to jury, a final 10 deal. It will be interesting if she does the honorable thing to take him off the block, or if she just promises him the votes are already there to evict Jason.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

I've been reading Hamsterwatch. Any other sites anyone can recommend that summarize the live feeds?


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

hummingbird_206 said:


> I've been reading Hamsterwatch. Any other sites anyone can recommend that summarize the live feeds?


take your pick:


Spoiler



Big Brother Network
Because You're Addicted
Online Big Brother
Big Brother Access
Big Big Brother
We Love Big Brother
Big Brother Live
Big Brother Feed
Big Brother Forum
Big Brother Buddy
Big Brother Fix
OnTheFlix BB Coverage
Big Brother Insider
Big Brother Gossip
Reality Radar
Reality TV Magazine
Big Brother Blog
Big Brother Game
I Love Reality
Big Brother Live Feeds
Hamster Watch
Reality BBQ: BB Roast
Reality TV Spoilers
Big Brother Dish
TRD-BBDishin'
BBDish-Caps
Big Brother Talk
The Big Brother Forum
*****y Big Brother
Big Brother Lounge
SirLinksLot:Big Brother 17
CBS Big Brother
Big Brother 17
Reality Rehash
Yakkity Yaks
Big Brother Blog
Reality TV Links: Big Brother 16
Reality TV Fans: Big Brother 16
Big Brother 24/7
Big Brother Couch Potatoes
Spoilers Guide
Big Brother Junkies
CBS BigBrother Blog
HitFix: Big Brother
Big Brother Spice
Big Brother Insider


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## KevinG (Sep 3, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> take your pick:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


That's an impressive list, especially since it managed to miss


Spoiler



http://www.jokersupdates.com/



But I'm not sure why these are in spoiler tags to begin with?


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## Eight47 (Feb 22, 2003)

Other sites are saying Audrey has quit the game (DOR).


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Eight47 said:


> Other sites are saying Audrey has quit the game (DOR).


if she hasn't quit, she'll set a record for longest dr session, from what i can tell she's been in the dr for 6 hours.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

and...audrey's...out of the dr!


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

On Howard Stern Perez Hilton said...


Spoiler



when he was on celebrity big brother he wanted to quit so bad the producers came up with a competition that he would lose and the "punishment" would be 2 days of isolation. The producers will do anything to keep people from quitting. 6 hour diary, no problem.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

KevinG said:


> That's an impressive list, especially since it managed to miss
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Thanks North and Kevin. I think spoiler tags were used just to condense the list for those not interested or to ease scrolling on a mobile device.

I'd forgotten about jokersupdates! I think that was one I used to read. Not sure why I stopped. Damn CRS.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

from @rockstrdentist, julias reaction when audrey emerged from the dr (lol):










@hamsterwatch says venessa went to give audrey advil & water, and when she came back vanessa told shelli that audrey is stable, not crying, and told vanessa they already gave me something.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

is anyone else bothered by bb allowing audrey to break havenot rules without penalty? she's grabbed a blanket, a pillow, has eaten restricted food offered by concerned hg's, and not so much as a penalty vote.

for some reason, this disturbs me from a game perspective, and weakens the show.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

They can let her do that and keep her around for the live show to get voted out (I think the House will vote her out because it's an easy vote especially if she's given up) or they (producers) can let her walk/quit and ruin the week's live show.


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## dthmj (Mar 12, 2002)

NorthAlabama said:


> is anyone else bothered by bb allowing audrey to break havenot rules without penalty? she's grabbed a blanket, a pillow, has eaten restricted food offered by concerned hg's, and not so much as a penalty vote.
> 
> for some reason, this disturbs me from a game perspective, and weakens the show.


What are the normal penalties for breaking the havenot rules?


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## KevinG (Sep 3, 2003)

This must have all been worked out during her 6(?) hour DR session. Whatever it took to keep her there until the live eviction, is my guess.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

dthmj said:


> What are the normal penalties for breaking the havenot rules?


it's up to production. iirc, in the past the offending hg would receive warnings from bb, eventually leading to a punishment. not necessarily related to food restriction violations, punishments talked about (online or on the feeds) have been extra days on slop (probably not relevant), a penalty vote (if on the block), a penalty nom (if not on the block), up to expulsion (probably being avoided by production since she looks like a goner anyway, and it appears they avoided her self-evicting during the 5-6 hr dr session).

from wikipedia:



> ...Jen Johnson was the first HouseGuest to break the food restriction rules, and earned a penalty eviction vote for doing so; she was ultimately evicted that week.


there is precedent in season 12 of havenot violations receiving no punishment, too (bigbrotheraccess.com):



> Enzo has been guilty at least twice (or more) of eating non-allowed items as a Have-Not. Enzo definitely consumed a piece of pizza when he was supposed to only be eating slop. He was warned not to do it again...
> Enzo received a warning over the pizza incident, but as far as we know, Big Brother has not punished him for the repeated violations.


production has been accused in the past of playing favorites, but i tend to think they rule in ways to preserve what's happening at that point in the game, and take into consideration any medical grounds, in order to present a better edit when the show airs.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

interesting night with new hohs jackie and vanessa. they both agreed not to use the other as a replacement nom, then vanessa seemed to go along with jackies idea to be the remaining hoh. at first, vanessa was lying when she agreed to leaving jackie as hoh, but later saw jackie remaining hoh as a good move, and made it part of her plan.

austin committed a deadly sin...lying to vanessa about his conversation with jason when he outed the twins, so this weeks target  austin. jackie and vanessa agree on choosing austin as a replacement nom if the pov is used, and targeting liz if it isnt. vanessa filled in jason, meg, and james on the plans to target austin. after back and forth, it looks like jackie will nom liz (julia) with james (replacing steve whos not on board with the plan), and vanessa will nom clay with becky for the win (to dethrone vanessa). 

austin offered vanessa to go up with becky (instead of clay) and throw the comp (to save liz and keep vanessa hoh), but the plan was already in place. interestingly, the story vanessa tells chelli is that austin suggested clay go up instead...wow. vanessa looks to be manipulating the house at every turn, and on all sides, at least until shes outed.

liz (julia) knows about austins outing the twins to jason, is not happy, and is on board with the plan to target austin. unfortunately for her, shes the target if the pov isnt used and the noms stay the same. liz outed austin to vanessa as the single vote to keep audrey with plans to blame steve (the last straw for vanessa, im sure).


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

the noms went as planned, jackie: liz & james, vanessa: clay & becky.

james confirmed he's throwing the bob with jackie, shelli, & vanessa, and now steve is the likely alternate target if austin wins pov and takes liz off the block. if austin doesn't win pov, james comes down and austin will sit next to liz. if the veto isn't used, bye-bye liz (of course clay & becky have to win bob first ). shelli is nervous clay & becky won't win, as she should be.

liz replaced julia this afternoon, and austin is busy filling her in on his version of what's up in the house.


----------



## dthmj (Mar 12, 2002)

JMac must not know what to do without being nominated...


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

dthmj said:


> jmac must not know what to do without being nominated...


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

And Liz won the BotB even with James throwing. So Vanessa stays HOH and Clay & Becky stay on the block. Target should still be Austin, but now Vanessa has to do it herself.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

yes, with the liz win, the twins are in next week.

steve is still the backup plan if austin is picked for pov and wins. meanwhile, steve is worried about overhearing jason, meg, & james complain about his eavesdropping. he was eavesdropping on a conversation complaining about his eavesdropping, go figure.

watching austin stroke liz's shoulder like a pet for what seemed like hours was creepy, don't know how she was able to show zero reaction.



eta: shelli, clay, steve, & (???) are have-nots. playing in the veto comp: vanessa, clay, becky, jmac, liz, & shelli, with jason hosting.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

clay won the pov comp, operation blindside austin is in full swing.

becky is in tears following her loss, but i imagine her mood will improve after the pov ceremony, whoever vanessa decides to put up as a replacement nom.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Vanessa is being very iffy and 2nd guessing herself about what she's going to do, at least depending on who she talks to. Steve believes he's a full-fledged stealth member of the sixth sense and tried to talk Vanessa into mending things with Austin for the sake of numbers and targeting Becky since she's already on the block, or just anyone on 'the other side'. Austin seems to be making progress repairing doubts about himself. Ironically if it were up to Austin he'd target Steve. It's a long time until Monday.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Yep. It's still a very fluid situation. Shay decided they didn't want Austin gone. Vanessa almost caved, but since she's already promised the house, Vanessa wants Shay to convince the house to keep him so they get the blame instead of her.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

i'm thinking the situation is less fluid than vanessa is letting on, and she's still on board with sending austin home, but is doing damage control with the house to show herself in a better light once he's gone (she's enlisted chelli to help her). her biggest fear is blowback from sending someone home who's seen as aligned with her, which is why she wanted jackie to win hoh and do it for her...we'll know after the pov ceremony.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

Seems way too early to boot out a member of your own alliance.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

it looks like austin might survive the pov meeting today, the replacement nom will likely be jason, jackie, austin, james?, jason, jackie, austin, jason, the next hg from the other side of the house that catches vanessa's attention walking by on the hoh monitor. she needs to just stop...please, stop...


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

It's Jason as of this morning. Apparently the plan is to blindside him.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

realityboy said:


> It's Jason as of this morning. Apparently the plan is to blindside him.


A much smarter move right now than Austin for sure.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Necromancer2006 said:


> A much smarter move right now than Austin for sure.


i agree. with the split in numbers so close, jason is a smarter move. i would still miss jason in the house, his commentary is priceless, and he has a good read on many of the hg's.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

I don't think so. Her mistake was broadcasting all over the house her target scenarios. Now not only is the 'other side' upset with her for not following through but she doesn't seem to realize Austin will now be after her at any opportunity he gets. All this after a couple of weeks ago making a self-righteous pronouncement about not targeting the gay/transgender community as a pretext to cover for the real reason she didn't want to target Audrey. If I were in the house I'd be recognizing the hypocrisy by now. What if Judas or Judases plural show up to vote out Becky? Now Jason is after her too and JMac is further angered.

Nominating Jason instead of Austin at this point helps the Sixth Sense but hurts Vanessa. She should have never targeted Austin if she wasn't committed to it. She's been playing too emotionally herself with this 'cross me and you're out' stuff.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

it's official, jason is the renom, and vanessa is scrambling to cover herself with the everyone who was surprised by her dumping the plan to blindside austin. jason initially seemed resigned to go home, but now the wheels are turning behind his eyes.

jackie wants to know what's up, james looks shocked, meg is crying, and clelli isn't helping by acting surprised themselves (after just telling vanessa they'd support her decision in front of the other hg's).



series5orpremier said:


> ...Her mistake was broadcasting all over the house her target scenarios. Now not only is the 'other side' upset with her for not following through but she doesn't seem to realize Austin will now be after her at any opportunity he gets.


it was unnecessarily messy, but i'm not so sure it really makes that much difference. austin would probably go after vanessa given any opportunity (remember how quickly he turned on jace), and the other side would have been targeting vanessa anyway. still, it's a really big mess that could have been easily avoided with a little finesse and smart gameplay.



> Nominating Jason instead of Austin at this point helps the Sixth Sense but hurts Vanessa. She should have never targeted Austin if she wasn't committed to it.


it will definitely add another perspective to the double eviction.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Major mistake - complete disaster. If they had quietly backdoored Austin the other side of the house would still have little clue about the details of the power alliance and even less evidence to figure it out. If Sixth Sense needed the number that badly they could have fully brought in Steve.

Clelli (so primarily Shelli because we know who wears the pants there) were responsible for saving Austin and betrayed Vanessa by pretending to be surprised by it. So now the power alliance is fracturing into a collapse and the rest of the house has figured out they've been getting jerked around and are out for blood. All because Clelli pressured Vanessa into changing the target after first agreeing to it.


----------



## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

Goes to show that trying to get too cutesie when things are already going swimmingly for you only invites trouble.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

tonight's hoh endurance comp: on the edge (outgoing hoh vanessa isn't playing)


steve drops first 35)
austin is one second behind steve 35)
meg is down 40)
julia follows meg a moment later 40)
jackie is out (1:20)
liz follows right behind jackie (1:20)
becky is out (1:38)
clay is out soon after becky (1:40)

3 still competing:
james, shelli, & jmac


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

james, shelli & jmac left


james promised jmac he was not a target (1:55)
shelli made a deal for clelli's safety (no nom or blindside) (1:55)

jmac dropped, then shelli

james wins hoh!


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

NorthAlabama said:


> tonights hoh endurance comp: on the edge (outgoing hoh vanessa isnt playing)
> 
> 
> steve drops first 35)
> ...


James just won. Made a deal with shelli that neither her nor clay get nominated nor backdoored


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

series5orpremier said:


> Major mistake - complete disaster. If they had quietly backdoored Austin the other side of the house would still have little clue about the details of the power alliance and even less evidence to figure it out. If Sixth Sense needed the number that badly they could have fully brought in Steve.
> 
> Clelli (so primarily Shelli because we know who wears the pants there) were responsible for saving Austin and betrayed Vanessa by pretending to be surprised by it. So now the power alliance is fracturing into a collapse and the rest of the house has figured out they've been getting jerked around and are out for blood. All because Clelli pressured Vanessa into changing the target after first agreeing to it.


I don't agree that it was a complete disaster. They have the numbers now by keeping Austin.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

julia's pic replaced jace's on the memory wall.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

bryhamm said:


> James just won. Made a deal with shelli that neither her nor clay get nominated nor backdoored


I hope he breaks that deal.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

Cainebj said:


> I hope he breaks that deal.


That would be awesome. I would love to see someone do that. Then, when they call him on it, say "I'm in the minority alliance. I would do or say anything to win the HOH".


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

talk last night from james was splitting up power couples, aka clelli - his deal wasn't factoring in discussions. becky warned clelli about shelli being one target, panic ensued, and james promised clelli the deal was solid (yeah, right!).

one discussion was putting austin or vanessa next to liz, and using shelli as a potential renom sitting next to liz, since julia and austin both would vote for liz to stay over anyone else from the other side. james thinks he can work with clay if shelli is gone.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Cainebj said:


> I hope he breaks that deal.


From what I just read on Joker's, looks like James is thinking about it. That would be awesome!! Not sure if this linking works, but here's the specific post


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

yeah, as of early this morning, it looks like james is putting clelli on the block. if he follows through, this could get interesting.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> yeah, as of early this morning, it looks like james is putting clelli on the block. if he follows through, this could get interesting.


That would be so awesome.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

Yeah, it really sounds like he is going to put both of them up. Nice.


----------



## dthmj (Mar 12, 2002)

I'm rooting for the minority alliance - but they need to seriously get John and Steve on board.


----------



## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

Shelli and Clay are the noms.


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Azlen said:


> Shelli and Clay are the noms.


Oh, snap! How's that going over?


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

as you'd expect, drama all around.

austwins are the havenots this week.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

northalabama said:


> *austwins *are the havenots this week.


LOL

How is Julia getting along with Austin?


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

bryhamm said:


> I don't agree that it was a complete disaster.


I'll tell you one thing. If they hadn't changed the target Clay and Shelli wouldn't be on the block right now with Vanessa or Liz (pawn) as the likely renom.

It worked out pretty well for Austin. He went from the verge of eviction to coast mode, even if the minority side can somehow retain power for another week or two. He and Julia are safe because regardless of alliances they'll vote out whoever is up against Liz.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

verdugan said:


> How is Julia getting along with Austin?


all the focus in the house is on the clelli noms and veto, so no issues i've heard of.

support for clelli has disappeared from all sides of the house. one of them seriously needs to win the veto comp today if they want to see the veto used, because fear of the replacement nom has spread like wildfire. while austin and vanessa have been mentioned as potential replacement noms, james would be more likely to nom liz as replacement to be sure he has at least two votes from austin & julia to save liz and evict whoever is left from clelli.

playing today's veto comp: james, clelli, vanessa, becky, jackie, with julia hosting.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> james would be more likely to nom liz as replacement to be sure he has at least two votes from austin & julia to save liz and evict whoever is left from clelli.


That's pretty smart of James. This is shaping up to be a great week.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

verdugan said:


> That's pretty smart of James. This is shaping up to be a great week.


yes it is, and it's about time.

while i know clelli have been trying to keep friends on all sides, and that any couple is a target, combined with the heat they're catching for lying about knowing of vanessa targeting jason last week, it's been really amazing to see how quickly vanessa, austin, & liz have abandoned clelli behind their backs.

this might result in more than a one week shift of power, and with jury and a double eviction coming up, this season might finally kick into a higher gear. :up:


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

If the minority can do it again next week it will be interesting to see how Vanessa re shapes her alliances if she can survive it. She already lost some faith in Austin and if both of Clelli are gone after next week she knows she's on the outside of the remaining 6th Senses' three headed monster.


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

I don't know about the rest of America, but I'm not a clelli fan. I hope she goes home, but I wouldn't be miss either of them. Maybe Clay would be ok without her there? 

I was watching BBAD this morning (last night's ep) and man, Julia's voice annoys me. I had to FF through her, but then she was so loud that I could hear her when the camera was from another room.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

hummingbird_206 said:


> Maybe Clay would be ok without her there?


i'm thinking shelli is the brains behind ken & barbie, and clay would be lost without her gamewise, unless a venessa, austin, or jackie stepped up to help him through.


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

NorthAlabama said:


> i'm thinking shelli is the brains behind ken & barbie, and clay would be lost without her gamewise, unless a venessa, austin, or jackie stepped up to help him through.


I meant OK as in not annoying me. I don't think either of them is actually very bright. Vanessa seems to have been the brains behind it all.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

hummingbird_206 said:


> I meant OK as in not annoying me.


lol


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

the veto comp is underway.


----------



## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

Looks like James won. Clay is asking people to vote him out to save Shelli.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Azlen said:


> Looks like James won. Clay is asking people to vote him out to save Shelli.


yes, james won the veto, and clay is throwing himself on his sword. both austin and vanessa had each suggested they would throw the comp, but later were afraid they'd be replacement noms, so they worked to finish better than clelli. other awards:


becky won $5,000
clay won a trip to ireland
vanessa (squire) and jackie (knight) are forced together, with vanessa polishing jackie's suit of armor continuously for 24 hours (jackie must wear her armor for the week).
shelli (castle guard) has to perform 2,400 sword fights. she must hit 3 targets each round, 2400 times, in 24 hours, or she can't compete in the next veto comp.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

veto ceremony results: james didn't use, so either shelli or clay leaves thursday.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Becky won hoh (& the other prizes-stupid setup, it's never that close so obviously one person was going to win all 3)

Current plan is Steve/Shelli backdoor Vanessa. 

Entertaining fight Thursday around 2:20pm BB time, but it mostly involves Clay so they may not bother showing it on Sunday's show.


----------



## Stylin (Dec 31, 2004)

What made them decide to keep Shelli over Clay? I know Clay volunteered to go home, but wouldnt Shelli have been the wiser move?
Though I like Vanessa, I'm glad they've wised up. What is the ultimate plan for Shelli? Evicted next week?


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

Stylin said:


> Though I like Vanessa, I'm glad they've wised up. What is the ultimate plan for Shelli? Evicted next week?


Hamsterwatch said that Vanessa is the backdoor plan. We'll see. Too much time between now and the next vote.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

realityboy said:


> Current plan is Steve/Shelli backdoor Vanessa


If that's how it remains good for Becky. I was concerned she was going to keep being the 6th Senses lapdog in an effort to be the new 6th member, which would be a dumb strategy.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

verdugan said:


> Hamsterwatch said that Vanessa is the backdoor plan. We'll see...




series5orpremier said:


> If that's how it remains good for Becky...


yes, this would be great, and vanessa gone even better - i can't watch vanessa talk game anymore, it grates on my nerves. we'll know soon, ceremony in progress for about 45min.

havenot volunteers: meg, jackie, & james. special food: slop-py joes.


----------



## angbear1985 (Aug 25, 2006)

realityboy said:


> Becky won hoh (& the other prizes-stupid setup, it's never that close so obviously one person was going to win all 3)
> 
> Current plan is Steve/Shelli backdoor Vanessa.
> 
> Entertaining fight Thursday around 2:20pm BB time, but it mostly involves Clay so they may not bother showing it on Sunday's show.


What was the fight ? Him leaving?


----------



## whoknows55 (Jun 17, 2001)

Do the houseguests know there is this weird guy named Steve in there? 

Is he as uninvolved on the live feeds as he is made out to be on the show?


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

Watching After Dark and its mostly James, Jackie, and Meg whining and acting depressed in the Have Not room. Then I just found out that they were not nominated and Vanessa is the back door plan.

So why are they so damn depressed and *****ing about the other side?


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

angbear1985 said:


> What was the fight ? Him leaving?


Not really. He wanted to leave, and it was flipping back and forth constantly (mostly Austin & the twins being wishy washy), but before the fight it seemed to have finally settled on him going.

The fight happened when he told Vanessa that James told JohnnyMac that Vanessa was in Shelli's ear and targeting JohnnyMac. Vanessa confronted James. James denies saying it (because he didn't) so they confront Clay. JohnnyMac & Clay both try to awkwardly cover for each other with both taking credit for saying it. Vanessa thought the whole thing was a scheme by Clay to stay, but it wasn't. The truth is that JohnnyMac did tell Clay that he thought Vsnessa was in Shelli's ear & after him, but he never said he heard it from James. Clay just made up/assumed that part. It was a convoluted mess, but it did keep the vote from flipping anymore.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

whoknows55 said:


> Do the houseguests know there is this weird guy named Steve in there?
> 
> Is he as uninvolved on the live feeds as he is made out to be on the show?


He's solidly on the 6th Sense side, but yes, he's just as awkward on the feeds. They generally perceive him as sneaking around and spying on them. He overheard Jason say that the cameras give them more privacy than Steve does. He's trying to be less creepy by hanging out in the hammock room alone or only approaching conversations that already involve 3 or more people.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Stylin said:


> What made them decide to keep Shelli over Clay? I know Clay volunteered to go home, but wouldnt Shelli have been the wiser move?
> Though I like Vanessa, I'm glad they've wised up. What is the ultimate plan for Shelli? Evicted next week?


6th Sense had the votes, and Shelli is their ally. Clay might've gone over to the other side with Meg & James. There was an agreement by 8 to get her out this week if it was DE, but it wasn't so no one's going to follow through. She is Becky's backup target if Vanessa escapes the block this week.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

veto comp is underway, players are becky, shelli, steve, meg, austin, vanessa, host: jmac

shelli suggested if it was possible, she might throw the comp to vanessa so they&#8217;d both have safety. austin also suggested he might throw the comp to steve, thinking he wouldn't be able to risk using it (fear of replacement nom).


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

realityboy said:


> 6th Sense had the votes, and Shelli is their ally. Clay might've gone over to the other side with Meg & James. There was an agreement by 8 to get her out this week if it was DE, but it wasn't so no one's going to follow through. She is Becky's backup target if Vanessa escapes the block this week.


But it was a unanimous vote. Even Jackie, Meg and Becky voted out Clay. Then last night they (mainly Jackie and Meg) keep complaining about how Vanessa yet again screwed up their plan. Jackie and Meg need to become players in this game and start taking chances (like voting for Shellie if she is who you want gone and hope you've persuaded Jonny Mac and Steve to vote with you...instead of just voting with the majority of the house, then whining about it).

Then they are acting like the other side is gonna come off like the "bad guys" to the public. I don't see any mean people in this season like in some past seasons, but just because some people are playing the game more strategically and voting out people behind your back doesn't make them the bad guys.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Dnamertz said:


> But it was a unanimous vote. Even Jackie, Meg and Becky voted out Clay. Then last night they (mainly Jackie and Meg) keep complaining about how Vanessa yet again screwed up their plan. Jackie and Meg need to become players in this game and start taking chances (like voting for Shellie if she is who you want gone and hope you've persuaded Jonny Mac and Steve to vote with you...instead of just voting with the majority of the house, then whining about it).
> 
> Then they are acting like the other side is gonna come off like the "bad guys" to the public. I don't see any mean people in this season like in some past seasons, but just because some people are playing the game more strategically and voting out people behind your back doesn't make them the bad guys.


I actually think they (Jackie, James, & Meg) are coming across as the good guys to the general public, but I completely agree. The other side isn't bad. In fact, they were probably less personal about making game moves. I can't hate either side for trying to play. This cast had more people actually playing the game than we've had in years. There is no Victoria, etc. just waiting there turn to be evicted.

Btw, Steve won veto so I don't see a way for Vanessa to stay. She'll likely cause chaos on the way out & very well may return.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

I wonder if Vanessa will ask Steve not to use the veto/stay up on the block, promising to make sure Shelli gets voted out. As a defense to that the rest of house needs to make Steve believe they'd vote him out.

Vanessa has been turning into a semi-logical with an end game version of Audrey (who was completely illogical and had no end game for her actions). She tries to micro-manage every game outcome even when she's not in power.... so she needs to be shown the door.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

steve will use the veto to save himself, and i'm expecting vanessa to join shelli on the block, with vanessa going home.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Expecting the same, but Becky, Steve, & JohnnyMac want to align with Shelli. If James, Meg, & Jackie find that out then, they could flip and vote out Shelli. Becky was trying to get them to agree to keep Shelli until after Austin & the twins are gone, but they weren't having it. They want Shelli out next.

Steve's done with Vanessa. Friday night talking alone, he said that his 2 closest allies hated each other & that was a problem. He chose JohnnyMac over Vanessa.


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

I really want to see Van and Shelli on the block together and working against each other. And then Van going out. And hopefully someone will call Van on her fake tears. I find her very entertaining except for the crying crap. That really annoys me.

I can definitely see Van trying to get Steve to not use the veto, but hopefully he will use it on himself and Van goes up and then out!


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

hummingbird_206 said:


> I find her very entertaining except for the crying crap.


I like JMac's term for it which I saw on a spoiler site... her "cry-fights". She's gotten into a cry-fight with somebody every week and up until now the person she cry-fights with has gone home every week. She overestimates her power of manipulation over everyone because they've recognized the pattern and are ready to shut her down.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

series5orpremier said:


> She's gotten into a cry-fight with somebody every week and up until now the person she cry-fights with has gone home every week. She overestimates her power of manipulation over everyone because they've recognized the pattern and are ready to shut her down.


this was an amazing realization and a game changer. it's gotten to the point i can't watch vanessa talk game anymore, she's all over the place with so many tangents, it's exhausting.


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

NorthAlabama said:


> this was an amazing realization and a game changer. it's gotten to the point i can't watch vanessa talk game anymore, she's all over the place with so many tangents, it's exhausting.


I think we're not the only ones who have caught on and gotten tired of her. Seems like Becky is set on putting her up. Hope that doesn't change. It will be interesting to see what Austwins do when it happens.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

vanessa is the renom after steve used the veto on himself, and vanessa is in full drama mode - tears, to anger, back to tears.

first, it's shelli's fault (huh?), and, next, production is in on the blindside since it was an early ceremony (to prevent anyone from changing their mind). then she starts with jury threats directed towards becky (if becky makes it to final 2). 

vanessa switches to talk of how loyal she is eek, and how she would have kept her cool if she'd only known in advance rolleyes. austwins make sure vanessa knows they only found out just before the ceremony. steve and austin count votes and agree, jmac is the swing vote to send vanessa to jury (maybe the "you and clay are lovers" remark didn't sit well with jmac?).

now vanessa decides to confront becky for answers (poor becky!)...


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

I'm impressed with Becky. Nobody can say she's a floater now.

I'm not sure what happened with Vanessa, but I think we all expected more from her. I hope she gets voted out.


----------



## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

They need to change up the rules a bit. The veto replacement is the target way too much.


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Read on Jokers that Austin said now would be a good time for popcorn. Who knew Austin could be so witty?


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Vanessa is such a spoiled entitled brat.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

realityboy said:


> I actually think they (Jackie, James, & Meg) are coming across as the good guys to the general public, but I completely agree. The other side isn't bad. In fact, they were probably less personal about making game moves.


As this week goes on, I fail to see how Jackie and Meg (James is OK) can come across as the "good guys". ALL Jackie does is sit around and bash Vanessa, even now that she is on her way out. It's like she is obsessed with Vanessa.

Yes, Vanessa backdoored people from the other side, but they didn't sit around and talk bad about those people the entire week.

And last night those 3 sat at the table and complained that Shellie "stole" back Clay's hoodie from James. Apparently Clay left a hoodie behind and James thinks that makes it his? Now that it's missing he is acting like he owns it.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Now Jackie and Meg are talking about flipping their votes to get Shelli out while they have her on the block. They're idiots. The concern is Shelli would go after James, who they don't want to lose, while Vanessa would go after Becky and/or JMac. But without Vanessa Shelli is isolated and at most could get in one more shot against your allies before you take her out. If Vanessa is allowed to survive she could wreak havoc throughout the rest of the season.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

no worries, when have jackie or meg ever held an independent thought between them for more than a few minutes, much less acted on it? i'm convinced the closer we get to thursday, the more likely vanessa will completely blow up her own game. like austin said, it's time for popcorn.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Vanessa is the glue that holds together Shelli, the Austwins, and Steve. Without her the more difficult it will be for those five to collaborate.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> no worries, when have jackie or meg ever held an independent thought between them for more than a few minutes, much less acted on it? i'm convinced the closer we get to thursday, the more likely vanessa will completely blow up her own game. like austin said, it's time for popcorn.


Ugh. I hope you're right. Jackie and Meg need to vote for Vanessa. They're stupid otherwise.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

series5orpremier said:


> Now Jackie and Meg are talking about flipping their votes to get Shelli out while they have her on the block. They're idiots. The concern is Shelli would go after James, who they don't want to lose, while Vanessa would go after Becky and/or JMac. But without Vanessa Shelli is isolated and at most could get in one more shot against your allies before you take her out. If Vanessa is allowed to survive she could wreak havoc throughout the rest of the season.


Seriously? Not that keeping Vanessa wouldn't make things more exciting to watch. But after the nominations, the way Meg and Jackie were complaining that Vanessa was going to screw up the plan for a 3rd week in a row, they are now possibly going to screw it up themselves. Then watch, if they do, they will someone complain that Vanessa screwed this week up for them.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Yes, if they keep Vanessa in the game they deserve to lose and I'm rooting for the 6th Sense to pick them off one by one just out of principle. Not to mention they'd be hanging out to dry a valuable potential ally in Becky who was trying to advance their game for them.

It's really happening and James is on board with them. They're letting petty personal stuff fallout from the Clay eviction cloud their judgment.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

series5orpremier said:


> It's really happening and James is on board with them. They're letting petty personal stuff fallout from the Clay eviction cloud their judgment.


Ugh. Idiots. If they keep Vanessa, they deserve to be voted off one by one.

Tomorrow's live vote is going to be good.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

verdugan said:


> Ugh. Idiots. If they keep Vanessa, they deserve to be voted off one by one.
> 
> Tomorrow's live vote is going to be good.


it looks as if momentum has shifted to evict shelli, but who knows. i agree, given the chance to send vanessa home, if they don't, they deserve what they get.

i also agree the vote will be good, and even better since it's at the top of the show, and another eviction will follow soon after - i love de nights!


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

I don't blame JJM at all for wanting Shelli out over Van. Shelli is for sure going to target them if she wins HOH, and she's good at winning HOH. But either way, it's going to be entertaining to watch. I'm even going to view live tomorrow evening, and I haven't done that all season (mostly due to travel, but still!)


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Double eviction, so the key is who wins the instant HOH.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> it looks as if momentum has shifted to evict shelli, but who knows. i agree, given the chance to send vanessa home, if they don't, they deserve what they get.
> 
> i also agree the vote will be good, and even better since it's at the top of the show, and another eviction will follow soon after - i love de nights!


Totally agree with you.

I don't remember if there's a veto in double evictions. Does anybody remember?


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

verdugan said:


> Totally agree with you.
> 
> I don't remember if there's a veto in double evictions. Does anybody remember?


yes, right after the first hoh comp. i'm hoping the second hoh comp will be endurance, it has been in the past on de nights.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

remember last week? james was hoh, and meg & jackie thought vanessa was the head of the snake that needed to be taken out? well, new week, all is forgiven, and it's time to make deals to keep vanessa!

becky now knows about jackie, james, and meg's plan to flip and keep vanessa, sending shelli home. becky isn't pleased to just be finding out about this, especially since she was goaded into calling vanessa out during the veto renom.

no matter how this ends, the de will be fun.


----------



## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> yes, right after the first hoh comp. i'm hoping the second hoh comp will be endurance, it has been in the past on de nights.


I thought that we never got to a 2nd HOH competition on DE nights? The show pretty much ended after the 2nd HG was evicted.


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

They usually at least start a 2nd HoH competition before the episode ends. If not play out an entire competition.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

TriBruin said:


> I thought that we never got to a 2nd HOH competition on DE nights? The show pretty much ended after the 2nd HG was evicted.




DancnDude said:


> They usually at least start a 2nd HoH competition before the episode ends. If not play out an entire competition.



i think i remember it being done both ways, but my favorite is when they start an endurance comp immediately following the second eviction, then roll the credits.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Very satisfying flip this week. I might be evil, but I am enjoying watching Becky's fall after she became so cocky. The slight quiver in her voice as she realized that Vanessa may stay and the sharing of the blame after making sure that she got sole credit was fun to watch. 

Make no mistake though, this isn't about saving Vanessa. It's just about getting rid of Shelli. She and Becky played it in the worst way possible. They took the votes of James, Meg, & Jackie completely for granted. Becky told them the plan without asking for any input, and Shelli became overconfident and stole Clay's shirt back from James. She was so mad at him that she planned to wear it when she nominated him next week. 

For her part, Vanessa was able to throw Becky under the bus about the alliance that she formed with her, Shelli, & Clay. It became instantly credible when Vanessa told James that Becky came up with the name, The Generals. Earlier in the season, Becky tried to start an alliance with James & used the same name. 

Grandma Meg actually played a large role in the flip. She brought it up to James, then they got Jackie onboard before talking to Austin, Liz, & Julia. Austin & Liz had no problem dropping Vanessa, but they were easily swayed & started a new 6-person alliance with James, Meg, & Jackie.

Edit: Shelli's not going out without a fight. She's campaigning still so it's not 100% settled either way.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

The Goblins (James, Jackie, Meg) are idiots.

I read on bigbrothernetwork.com the following and I agree with it:



> Like their plan (to keep Vanessa) or not, it is based on thoroughly flawed and inaccurate assessments of the game right now. They'll need luck on their side because logic isn't helping.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

They need the luck of Vanessa and Liz being the last two people sitting on the block for the second eviction, but I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

I am just amazed at how stupid the sixth sense (Vanessa) has been. Vanessa gets hoh, then immediately turns on Austin because of some stupid perceived slight, gets the house (including non-SS members) to vote him out, changes her mind, pisses off rest of house, throws shelli and clay under the bus, and now has her alliance split.

If she had just sucked it up and kept the alliance strong, they'd still have clay and would be voting out the floaters.


----------



## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

Exactly!! and, then she spends every breath talking about how this person or that person is changing their mind and it's going to ruin everything. Well, you were one of the first to change your mind and ruin everything.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

SoBelle0 said:


> Exactly!! and, then she spends every breath talking about how this person or that person is changing their mind and it's going to ruin everything. Well, you were one of the first to change your mind and ruin everything.


EXACTLY!!!

If anyone from this alliance actually wins, I will be shocked.

SHOCKED!!!


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

They should subtitle this season "Battles of the dumbest alliances". Unfortunately, I have a feeling Vanessa is capable of learning from her mistakes and making adjustments.


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

I think it's great that the alliances are all over the place. I think it's quite entertaining!


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

BBAD question: What was up with all of the 'sponsor' stuff? Are they just doing that on their own or is BB making them do it?


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

DavidTigerFan said:


> I am just amazed at how stupid the sixth sense (Vanessa) has been. Vanessa gets hoh, then immediately turns on Austin because of some stupid perceived slight, gets the house (including non-SS members) to vote him out, changes her mind, pisses off rest of house, throws shelli and clay under the bus, and now has her alliance split.
> 
> If she had just sucked it up and kept the alliance strong, they'd still have clay and would be voting out the floaters.


The downfall of this alliance is that they have not won HoH for the last two weeks.

She turned on Austin because of the numerous suspicious things he had done. Throwing the veto comp in Vanessa's first HoH, being one of them. Outing the twins to the other side was another one.


----------



## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

Dnamertz said:


> The downfall of this alliance is that they have not won HoH for the last two weeks.
> 
> She turned on Austin because of the numerous suspicious things he had done. Throwing the veto comp in Vanessa's first HoH, being one of them. Outing the twins to the other side was another one.


Thats great, but he was still working with them. Instead of instantly planning on voting out your own alliance, confront them and solidify your alliance. Now Austin is sitting pretty with the twins while Vanessa is getting voted out.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

nyny523 said:


> EXACTLY!!!
> 
> If anyone from this alliance actually wins, I will be shocked.
> 
> SHOCKED!!!


I won't because the other alliance is even more stupid. They even said it last week that they needed to cut the head of the snake (Vanessa.)

One week later when they have a chance to do so, they change their mind.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

The irony will be if everybody completely flips (except JMac and Becky) and Vanessa goes to jury on the first eviction anyway thanks to the Austwins.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

liz just won the final hoh - say goodbye to becky, james, or jmac, one will be off to jury.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

hummingbird_206 said:


> BBAD question: What was up with all of the 'sponsor' stuff? Are they just doing that on their own or is BB making them do it?


That's just them playing around.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Nearly everyone is in multiple real or fake alliances with nearly everyone else. The only thing that seems certain is Becky is going up on the block (with JMac) and she's being evicted unless she wins the POV.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> liz just won the final hoh - say goodbye to becky, james, or jmac, one will be off to jury.


James, Meg, and Jackie have nobody to blame but themselves.

Idiots!


----------



## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

NorthAlabama said:


> liz just won the final hoh - say goodbye to becky, james, or jmac, one will be off to jury.


Final hoh? I think they'll have a few more hoh comps


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

Becky got cocky. Now I wonder if she will go to Liz and try to make a deal even though she is anti-deals and anti-alliances.

After Becky is nominated, I hope she goes to Liz for an explaination and Liz just walks away saying "I don't owe you an explaination".


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

becky was able to manage alone time with austwins, sans vanessa, early this morning, and becky spilled the dirt on the week liz was jackie's nom, and how vanessa's plan was to leave jackie as hoh, liz on the block, and then blindside/backdoor austin. this was the first they'd heard the entire plan that left liz in jeopardy (what? vanessa didn't fill them in? ).

now austwins are considering keeping becky as a target for vanessa, and to do the dirty work against vanessa - they know vanessa has to go eventually for their game, and they're a strong voting block with so few hg left.

i wouldn't want to be sitting next to becky on the block this week, but it's early, and anything could happen depending on the veto comp tomorrow.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

NorthAlabama said:


> becky was able to manage alone time with austwins, sans vanessa, early this morning, and becky spilled the dirt on the week liz was jackie's nom, and how vanessa's plan was to leave jackie as hoh, liz on the block, and then blindside/backdoor austin. this was the first they'd heard the entire plan that left liz in jeopardy (what? vanessa didn't fill them in? ).
> 
> now austwins are considering keeping becky as a target for vanessa, and to do the dirty work against vanessa - they know vanessa has to go eventually for their game, and they're a strong voting block with so few hg left.
> 
> i wouldn't want to be sitting next to becky on the block this week, but it's early, and anything could happen depending on the veto comp tomorrow.


If they are considering keeping Becky, who would be their main target? JMac? James or Meg?


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

this weeks have nots: vanessa, jmac, & steve, with pork-slops.



Dnamertz said:


> If they are considering keeping Becky, who would be their main target? JMac? James or Meg?


liz talked to the camera about putting up jmac next to becky on the block.

austin says they have the votes if anything goes wrong, and while liz is mad, she & julia are not fully convinced it's safe for their game to keep becky, and wonder is austin is targeting jmac for other reasons.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Programming note: In a failed attempt to be clever, the POP Network is broadcasting the movie "The Sixth Sense" on Saturday night immediately before After Dark.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

another note for after dark viewers - i noticed a guide error in our market, they list the movie "outbreak" running from 8pm - 1am on pop. 

i would bet the movie actually runs 8pm - 11pm, and after dark 11pm - 1am, so you may want to set a manual recording.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

According to my program guide Outbreak is 5:30-8:30pm CT, The Sixth Sense 8:30pm-11:00pm CT, and After Dark 11:00pm-1:00am CT.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

the date and time in the guide for our market was only showing "outbreak" on fri 8/14 8pm - 1am, and a manual recording scheduled 11pm - 1am picked up bbad as i suspected - the "outbreak" movie credits were rolling at the beginning of the manual recording.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Oh, I've been talking about Saturday (tonight). I missed that last night.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

otev - comp players: liz, jmac, becky, austin, meg & steve, with james hosting.

liz won pov!


austin lost in final round to liz
becky did well in the comp
jmac out in the first round


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> otev - comp players: liz, jmac, becky, austin, meg & steve, with james hosting.
> 
> liz won pov!
> 
> ...


Which competition is OTEV?


----------



## Enrique (May 15, 2006)

Steve:

"I'm bored, so I'm going to have a tums" lol love Steve.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

verdugan said:


> Which competition is OTEV?


OTEV is when they have a character (OTEV) who tells them to look for things and the last person who brings the thing back loses (kind of like musical chairs), until only one person is left.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

nyny523 said:


> OTEV is when they have a character (OTEV) who tells them to look for things and the last person who brings the thing back loses (kind of like musical chairs), until only one person is left.


Thank you. I just realized now that OTEV is VETO spelled backwards.

I'm going to go away for a while until I get over the shame.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

verdugan said:


> Thank you. I just realized now that OTEV is VETO spelled backwards.
> 
> I'm going to go away for a while until I get over the shame.


no worries, we've all been there!


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

liz did *not* use the veto, the noms remain becky and jmac, not a surprise.

becky is the current target, and liz is planning to tell her closer to thursday in an attempt to smooth over any jury vote, but it's a long time between now and thursday night, anything could happen.


----------



## andyw715 (Jul 31, 2007)

if for some reason he gets voted out, i'm out.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

andyw715 said:


> if for some reason he gets voted out, i'm out.


He can still come back


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

The person who comes back is still at a disadvantage. They're still an isolated outsider from the point of view of the remaining power alliance and likely won't last long.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

series5orpremier said:


> The person who comes back is still at a disadvantage. They're still an isolated outsider from the point of view of the remaining power alliance and likely won't last long.


Usually, but remember the only other time that twins were introduced? They were voted off right away back to back because they were a built in pair.

This season? The twins are still on and with Austin. It's now 3 of a kind instead of just a pair and they're still there.

It's a weird season.


----------



## RichardHead (Nov 17, 2003)

I watch BBAD two or three times a week.

Is it just me or does every other sentence the twins produce sound like they are whining?

I know it's just a speech pattern but, holy crap, it's annoying.

They don't generally sound like that on the regular show.


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I was watching one of the BBADs and one of the twins said "I'm not the sharpest tool in the crayon box". And then they were all discussing that it's not the saying. And then the scroll along the bottom of the screen said some like: "Liz said: I'm not the sharpest tool in the crayon box"


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

austin won hoh.


----------



## Jolt (Jan 9, 2006)

Ive said it before but Meg is so beautiful. I really hope we see more of her after BB.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> austin won hoh.


Thanks for the update.

I guess this mean that Vanessa is probably not going to go on the block this week.


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

@zingbotofficial is quite fun to watch right now


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

verdugan said:


> I guess this mean that Vanessa is probably not going to go on the block this week.


i'm not so sure - we're down to 8, seating has been moved out of the living room, the small dinner table will be swapped in soon, and there are only so many chances left to get rid of vanessa while austwins are intact.

vanessa will try to blow up the house, along with everyone's individual games, when she's nominated. no one believes a word she says anymore, so claiming she's lying is an adequate defense, but it'll be a rough week.

maybe he'll put up meg & james, claim meg is the target, pray vanessa doesn't win pov, then if the pov is used pull james down and put vanessa next to meg. that would be an easy vote to get her out.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Sounds like he doesn't want to put up Meg & James. Probably Steve & JMac with the possibility of backdooring Vanessa depending on veto.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> i'm not so sure - we're down to 8, seating has been moved out of the living room, the small dinner table will be swapped in soon, and there are only so many chances left to get rid of vanessa while austwins are intact.
> 
> vanessa will try to blow up the house, along with everyone's individual games, when she's nominated. no one believes a word she says anymore, so claiming she's lying is an adequate defense, but it'll be a rough week.
> 
> maybe he'll put up meg & james, claim meg is the target, pray vanessa doesn't win pov, then if the pov is used pull james down and put vanessa next to meg. that would be an easy vote to get her out.


True, but on the other hand, the HG that gets voted out on Thr has the chance to come right back. So they might decide to wait a week when there's no chance of her coming back.


----------



## Lopey (Feb 12, 2004)

verdugan said:


> True, but on the other hand, the HG that gets voted out on Thr has the chance to come right back. So they might decide to wait a week when there's no chance of her coming back.


They don't know that is happening on Thursday, do they? There are actually some good strong players in the jury, any of them could come back at this point.


----------



## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

Jolt said:


> Ive said it before but Meg is so beautiful. I really hope we see more of her after BB.


Love Sweet Meg. Great personality and best smile ever. She doesn't have much of a game, can't win comps so she doesn't get much air time, so unless something changes she will disappear from reality TV after this.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Thanks for the info, NorthAlabama!

I thought that comp was pretty stupid.

Anyway - I don't see why Austin wouldn't put James and Meg up - they have a sort-of alliance with JMac and Steve, so why not go for the "other side of the house"? And definitely try to back door Vanessa.

I am amazed that the Austwins have this much power at this stage of the game!


----------



## whoknows55 (Jun 17, 2001)

nyny523 said:


> Thanks for the info, NorthAlabama!
> 
> I thought that comp was pretty stupid.
> 
> ...


I actually though the comp was new and fun. I wonder how many DQs there were vs slow people.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

NorthAlabama said:


> austin won hoh.


This doesn't surprise me. When my wife and I watched the show last night, I told her this was geared towards him. He's athletic with long strides.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

RichardHead said:


> I watch BBAD two or three times a week.
> 
> Is it just me or does every other sentence the twins produce sound like they are whining?
> 
> ...


Its so annoying they way they say certain words.."No-uuhhhh" or "James-uuhhh".


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

verdugan said:


> So they might decide to wait a week when there's no chance of her coming back.


While that has some logic to it I'm bothered by the perpetual excuses to delay targeting Vanessa. The Austwins are a wishy-washy broken record. Last week they were saying wait one more week and let somebody else take her out while taking the target off us. Then they agreed with John and Steve to target her this week. Now they're saying just one more week again. Vanessa could win HOH again buying herself another week. Before you know it there could be so few people left in the house that they'd all rather target the Austwins instead of Vanessa, particularly after the back to back HOHs shows how much of a threat they can be.


----------



## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

I understand, but do not like, that from their perspective it is best for their game. Everyone else claims her as their target - how can they not allow those others to get her out. She's working with them - and they're the next biggest target. 

I still can't believe that people haven't split them up! That's the thing that really surprises me. 
There's a twin! Get one of them out. There's a showmance! Get one of them out. 
They're all working together - get two of them out! and quickly! 

Yet, that doesn't even seem like a concern to anyone... maybe Becky. What's up with that?

Really a bummer to hear that Austin won. Another week in the HoH room. Gag!


----------



## whoknows55 (Jun 17, 2001)

SoBelle0 said:


> I understand, but do not like, that from their perspective it is best for their game. Everyone else claims her as their target - how can they not allow those others to get her out. She's working with them - and they're the next biggest target.
> 
> I still can't believe that people haven't split them up! That's the thing that really surprises me.
> There's a twin! Get one of them out. There's a showmance! Get one of them out.
> ...


This is what I've been yelling at Ray every show "Break up the power couples." "Put up the Twins, if anyone other than Austin takes them off the block put up Austin. If Austin takes them off put up Vanessa" this is Big Brother 101. Don't let strong relationships stay in the house.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

SoBelle0 said:


> I understand, but do not like, that from their perspective it is best for their game. Everyone else claims her as their target - how can they not allow those others to get her out. She's working with them - and they're the next biggest target.
> 
> I still can't believe that people haven't split them up! That's the thing that really surprises me.
> *There's a twin! Get one of them out. There's a showmance! Get one of them out. *
> ...


And both of the bolded can be accomplished by getting just Liz out.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

whoknows55 said:


> I actually though the comp was new and fun. I wonder how many DQs there were vs slow people.


Hamsterwatch said only Vanessa was DQ'ed.

I thought it was a fun competition, but it was unfair. It was almost certain that Austin would win. Although, Hamsterwatch has a screencap that shows James and Austin finishing very close.

I wish Becky would've been in the house for this comp.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Yeah - I don't get how those 3 are still there and virtually untouched.

And something about Austin is just yucky. I want to like him - but ewww.

Just ewww...


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

Lopey said:


> They don't know that is happening on Thursday, do they? There are actually some good strong players in the jury, any of them could come back at this point.


I'm pretty sure that they know that revive-a-HG is coming this Thursday. They usually have it when there are 4 HG out.

Depending on the type of competition, it could be more luck than skill.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

Can't remember if JC just told us (the viewers) or told the house that it was at 4 jurors when 1 could come back in.


----------



## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

nyny523 said:


> Yeah - I don't get how those 3 are still there and virtually untouched.
> 
> And something about Austin is just yucky. I want to like him - but ewww.
> 
> Just ewww...


I know! At the beginning I told friends that I was just sure there'd be one of those halfway point makeovers where he'd shave and we'd all really see how hot he is... :up:

Instead, I think mostly because of personality, he's gotten uglier as time has gone on. :down: And, those braids and white rubber bands did nothing to help!


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

whoknows55 said:


> I actually though the comp was new and fun. I wonder how many DQs there were vs slow people.


vanessa dq'd, she took a stance that didn't rest on her legs, it was too late to shift, and she knew she was in trouble a few minutes in. when her legs started to buckle, that was it - she went out third, behind meg and julia. then jmac and steve, with james vs austin for the final lap.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

SoBelle0 said:


> I know! At the beginning I told friends that I was just sure there'd be one of those halfway point makeovers where he'd shave and we'd all really see how hot he is... :up:
> 
> Instead, I think mostly because of personality, he's gotten uglier as time has gone on. :down: And, those braids and white rubber bands did nothing to help!


Yeah - physically he is kinda yucky, and his personality is kinda icky, and the combo is just...ewww.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

And put on a shirt, you hippie. When the HD camera accidentally gets a close-up it's gross.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

series5orpremier said:


> And put on a shirt, you hippie. When the HD camera accidentally gets a close-up it's gross.


His tattoos under the night camera looked really freaky.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

bryhamm said:


> And both of the bolded can be accomplished by getting just Liz out.


A few weeks ago I heard one HG (don't remember who) voice the concern that if you are the person who nominates/evicts one of that threesome, then you have two people definitely coming after you. And they said that is most true if you evict Liz, because then Julia will take it personal because you evicted her sister and Austin will take it personal because you evicted his showmance.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

Dnamertz said:


> A few weeks ago I heard one HG (don't remember who) voice the concern that if you are the person who nominates/evicts one of that threesome, then you have two people definitely coming after you. And they said that is most true if you evict Liz, because then Julia will take it personal because you evicted her sister and Austin will take it personal because you evicted his showmance.


good point


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Jolt said:


> Ive said it before but Meg is so beautiful. I really hope we see more of her after BB.


She is beautiful!

Actually, this has been a good looking group this year.

The twins are gorgeous, but I can't stand to listen to them talk. Becky was pretty. Jackie was pretty. Shelli was beautiful too. Vanessa was attractive too when she wasn't crying.


----------



## andyw715 (Jul 31, 2007)

Dnamertz said:


> A few weeks ago I heard one HG (don't remember who) voice the concern that if you are the person who nominates/evicts one of that threesome, then you have two people definitely coming after you. And they said that is most true if you evict Liz, because then Julia will take it personal because you evicted her sister and Austin will take it personal because you evicted his showmance.


Then get rid of Austin. Julia doesn't like him anyway. (It's a 3some by proxy). And she'll quickly get Austin out of Liz's mind (whom I don't think she has much emotional capital invested in him anyway, not nearly as much as he does in her).


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

steve and jmac are the noms. austin is saying james or vanessa are his renom targets, but jmac is really the one on his radar - vanessa wins again with her the noms.

steve is concerned, austin told him he wouldn't be going up, but vanessa threw steve under the bus just before noms.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> steve and jmac are the noms. austin is saying james or vanessa are his renom targets, but jmac is really the one on his radar - vanessa wins again with her the noms.
> 
> steve is concerned, austin told him he wouldn't be going up, but vanessa threw steve under the bus just before noms.


These nominations make me sad.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

verdugan said:


> These nominations make me sad.


Me too


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

verdugan said:


> These nominations make me sad.





nyny523 said:


> Me too


Me three.


----------



## Jolt (Jan 9, 2006)

Does anyone know what Austins tattoo says that he is always covering up?


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Jolt said:


> Does anyone know what Austins tattoo says that he is always covering up?


Yes. It says "I'm a narcissist." However, I'm more concerned with not having to look at his nipples or pit hair.

Or did you mean literally?


----------



## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

Good thing JMac threw that veto to prove his loyalty. 

Dummy!!


----------



## whoknows55 (Jun 17, 2001)

How close the HoH was


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

whoknows55 said:


> How close the HoH was


Although in the heat they showed Steve of all people won.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

pov players: austin, steve, jmac, julia, vanessa, & meg.

jmac picked meg again (smart!) - wonder if he's agreed to throw the veto this week?  

if jmac or steve don't win the veto to force a renom, i'm going to be disappointed after the eviction thursday.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Vanessa won the veto. Not using it for now. Zingbot was there without his wife. Apparently, he's Zingle & Ready to Mingle. The comp was some variation of the morph comp. (faces)

Not sure if JMac threw the comp or not. I know beforehand he thought it didn't matter who won since everyone would use the veto. He still thinks he'll be saved. He's saying he's indebted to Austwins for keeping him safe. He has the worst read of the house.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

veto *not *used, it's official, jmac & steve remain on the block.

jmac suspects austwins also made a deal with james & meg since he and steve remain on the block (hello!).

jmac earlier told vanessa about the alliance to get her out, so now liz is mad and confused...why is jmac so upset since all they did was put him on the block?


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

The target has gone round & round as suspected. One scenario that they are seriously considering is having Steve & JohnnyMac play Rock Paper Scissors live on eviction night.


----------



## Jolt (Jan 9, 2006)

The whole family name thing is annoying. This isn't a women's prison.

I really think Meg is starting to like James. They do make a cute couple.


----------



## Enrique (May 15, 2006)

So I guess it wasn't a very long endurance challenge. lol 
Vanessa won HOH and Johnny Mac is back in the house.


Edit: Johnny Mac made a deal with Vanessa to put aside their feud for one week.


----------



## whoknows55 (Jun 17, 2001)

Enrique said:


> So I guess it wasn't a very long endurance challenge. lol
> Vanessa won HOH and Johnny Mac is back in the house.
> 
> Edit: Johnny Mac made a deal with Vanessa to put aside their feud for one week.


Damn it. No one is going to evict the power couple/triad.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

How did Vanessa outlast shelli, Becky and James?


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

whoknows55 said:


> Damn it. No one is going to evict the power couple/triad.


If Vanessa truly thinks she is on the bottom of the 4, this is the time to switch and make a new 4 with John, James and Meg.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

vanessa would be at the bottom of an alliance on either side, she's already broken too many alliances herself. switching sides during this hoh would likely only buy her one more week at most, even if she put 2 of austwins on the block and one went home - she's made her bed.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

Not if she truly teams up with John. It'd be 2 and 2 in that one.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

Vanessa is HOH.

JMac is revived.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

bryhamm said:


> Not if she truly teams up with John. It'd be 2 and 2 in that one.


and if they both land on the block the following week?


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

bryhamm said:


> Not if she truly teams up with John. It'd be 2 and 2 in that one.


And I'm sure she can get Steve on board as well.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

james & meg are the noms this week, with james as vanessa's target.

vanessa remembered she promised james immunity if she won hoh again, and later when james eventually remembered the deal, too, he recalled it also included a "plus one". good thing vanessa is loyal and plays an honest game, or he might be in trouble! 

pov players picked: vanessa, james, meg, austwins. steve & jmac sit out.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

NorthAlabama said:


> james & meg are the noms this week, with james as vanessa's target.
> 
> vanessa remembered she promised james immunity if she won hoh again, and later when james eventually remembered the deal, too, he recalled it also included a "plus one". good thing vanessa is loyal and plays an honest game, or he might be in trouble!


James won't mind. We know James doesn't really believe in keeping immunity promises.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

James won veto. JohnnyMac backdoored or a twin as a pawn to get out Meg?


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Or Steve. Meg being evicted would make JMac a cutting edge visionary, and he didn't even have to get blood on his hands . Although Vanessa promised JMac safety this week I'm afraid if JMac goes up he goes out.

James was out the door without that win. Talk about clutch but it may just buy him one more HOH cycle.

They're running out of opposition to pick off and soon have to start using each other as pawns, which will tempt them to "scumbag" each other. Double elimination next week so James is the target unless he or the other survivor between Meg and JMac wins HOH.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

if vanessa wants to keep both steve and jmac in the game (and she should), steve has to go up. austwins would send jmac to jury again in a heartbeat, regardless of what vanessa wants, but they might be convinced to vote to keep steve over meg if that is vanessa's choice as hoh.

the twins have been talking trash non-stop between themselves about everyone else in the house. the voting power/comp wins of austwins has evidently gone to their head, and they'll do almost whatever they wish (alliances be damned). i'm hoping james wins hoh to shake things up.


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Has Julia actually won anything (HOH, Veto, BOTB?) She seems to think she's seen as big threat, but I don't get it? Austin and Liz have won, but I don't remember Julia doing anything (except be a beotch.)


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

hummingbird_206 said:


> Has Julia actually won anything (HOH, Veto, BOTB?) She seems to think she's seen as big threat, but I don't get it?


she knows austwins & co have the numbers unless 2 are the final noms. while i've never used comp wins alone to measure overall game play...



Spoiler



bb16 winner derrick never won bob or a veto, and 1 hoh at this point in the game, bb15 winner andy won his first veto & hoh week 7


...you're right, she's overconfident and too comfortable as the 3rd wheel in a 4 person alliance.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

NorthAlabama said:


> if vanessa wants to keep both steve and jmac in the game (and she should), steve has to go up. austwins would send jmac to jury again in a heartbeat, regardless of what vanessa wants, but they might be convinced to vote to keep steve over meg if that is vanessa's choice as hoh.


I agree with this. Jmac is also sure that if he goes up, he goes home. Steve might go home. I think Vanessa would like the option of putting up Julia as the pawn, but she doesn't want to piss of her closest allies (Austin and the twins). She wants Meg out, but now that Austin and the twins are not forced to vote out James or Meg, they might keep Meg to keep their "alliance" with James and Meg together.

I am not sure why they are not as interested in their alliance with Steve and Jmac. Why is Jmac the big threat lately when there is a bigger single threat (Vanessa), a three-person threat (Austin and the twins), and a solid two-person threat (James and Meg)? This is the ideal spot to break up either that two-person threat or the three-person threat.


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

NorthAlabama said:


> she knows austwins & co have the numbers unless 2 are the final noms. while i've never used comp wins alone to measure overall game play...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think comp wins make someone a threat, but within the game the players seem to think that makes someone a threat. So I couldn't figure out why Julia thinks she's a threat. I would love to see Julia go up as a pawn and end up being voted out.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

it's never going to happen, but i would love to see vannessa put liz up as the replacement nom with committed votes from james, steve, & jmac.

austin would be helpless, julia isolated, and both would remain huge targets. it's to that point in the game where alliances mean less than comp wins.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

NorthAlabama said:


> it's never going to happen, but i would love to see vannessa put liz up as the replacement nom with committed votes from james, steve, & jmac.
> 
> austin would be helpless, julia isolated, and both would remain huge targets. it's to that point in the game where alliances mean less than comp wins.


I only think she would put up Liz (or Julia) as a pawn if it meant she had committed votes from Steve & Jmac that they would vote out Meg. She has just pissed off Meg and James, so I don't think she will also piss off Austin and a twin.

Plus I don't see Steve blindsiding anyone.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

the only way i would suggest vanessa put up one of the twins is with a goal to send one home. that's why i suggested liz, it would leave both austin and julia isolated (but still probably voting together). if she's not ready to split them (and their alliance) up, putting either one on the block is practically suicide for vanessa.


----------



## andyw715 (Jul 31, 2007)

She should have put up the couple of the threesome, with the goal of getting rid of Austin.
If the noms stick you can then count on the sister to vote out Austin (she doesn't really like him and no way she would vote out her sister). The rest of the house (drones) would follow suit and get a unanimous decision.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

why send austin home, leaving an angry liz + twin voting in the house? better to send liz home, leaving a broken austin behind. julia without liz isn't much of a factor, like meg without james.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

james used the veto on himself, julia is the replacement nom sitting next to meg. unless there's some major planning between now and thursday, it looks like it's bye-bye meg (finally).

wonder if jmac & steve will see an opportunity to team with james for their own 3 vote advantage, and say bye-bye to julia instead? that would be an interesting twist, especially before a double eviction.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

NorthAlabama said:


> james used the veto on himself, julia is the replacement nom sitting next to meg. unless there's some major planning between now and thursday, it looks like it's bye-bye meg (finally).
> 
> wonder if jmac & steve will see an opportunity to team with james for their own 3 vote advantage, and say bye-bye to julia instead? that would be an interesting twist, especially before a double eviction.


they'd be stupid not to imo


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

bryhamm said:


> they'd be stupid not to imo


if they have a heart to heart with vanessa, they might even pull her on board with the plan to minimize any blowback - let's face it, there aren't many opportunities left to break up austwins.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

I haven't seen any feeds but I'm guessing to minimize Julia's whining Vanessa had to do some major reassuring to her that she won't be going home, and had to bring in Steve and possibly even JMac as part of that reassurance.

Not that I don't want the house to get blown up.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

series5orpremier said:


> I haven't seen any feeds but I'm guessing to minimize Julia's whining Vanessa had to do some major reassuring to her that she won't be going home, and had to bring in Steve and possibly even JMac as part of that reassurance.
> 
> Not that I don't want the house to get blown up.


I read on Hamsterwatch that Vanessa was talking with Austin and she mentioned giving Julia $100k of her own money if she got voted out.

She got called into diary ASAP.

When she came out, she said she that she meant $10,000 and it was an expression to show how sure she was that Julia wouldn't go.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

there were re-reassurances, and regardless, julia has no reason to be whining - austwins have never been on the block, julia has yet to win any comp, and austwins have a huge advantage in the house teamed with vanessa - win a comp, or trust your alliance.

so, of course, her first reaction following the ceremony was to whine (to liz) and start to worry, and it's way past time...


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> there were re-reassurances, and regardless, julia has no reason to be whining - austwins have never been on the block, julia has yet to win any comp, and austwins have a huge advantage in the house teamed with vanessa - win a comp, or trust your alliance.
> 
> so, of course, her first reaction following the ceremony was to whine (to liz) and start to worry, and it's way past time...


Not to mention that Julia came into the game late, and has a default vote already.


----------



## angbear1985 (Aug 25, 2006)

Do they know this is double eviction week ?


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

What I've seen is they think DE will be next week not this week.


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

hummingbird_206 said:


> What I've seen is they think DE will be next week not this week.


My understanding it's this week.


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

brianric said:


> My understanding it's this week.


Correct, it's this week. I was answering the question about do they know it's this week.


----------



## Jolt (Jan 9, 2006)

I really like how Steve is maturing socially on this season. I kind of think Julia might have a little crush on him. She sure does spend a lot of time talking to him.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

The way I see it, if Vanessa stays aligned with the twins and Austin, at best she can come in 4th place in this game. Why can't she see that?

If she stays with them and kicks everyone else out, she won't be able to make a move.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

yeah she is clearly the 4th person in a 4 person alliance, she should make a move


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Until now, the twins and Austin have never been nominated, not even as pawns. And Vanessa has only been nominated once, by Becky.


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

markz said:


> The way I see it, if Vanessa stays aligned with the twins and Austin, at best she can come in 4th place in this game. Why can't she see that?
> 
> If she stays with them and kicks everyone else out, she won't be able to make a move.


Well if she's HOH that week can't she make 3rd? And if she's 3rd isn't she eligible for the last HOH?


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

JFriday said:


> Well if she's HOH that week can't she make 3rd? And if she's 3rd isn't she eligible for the last HOH?


Well, I guess there is an outside chance. And she is a gambler. Let's just hope she plays her cards right, then.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Her best bet is keeping a balance of power and letting them take shots at each other while trying to keep good relations with everyone. That's why the two weakest players are on the block... to keep the house from becoming too lopsided for the Austwins' interests. She needs to win final four HOH no matter who the other three are, but if she loses she has a better chance of not being voted out if it isn't the Austwins.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

There are 8 people left:

Austin
Liz
Julia
Vanessa
Meg
James
John
Steve


So, if Julia and Meg are on the blocks, that means the following 5 people vote:

Austin
Liz
James
Steve
John


Don't see why James, Steve and John don't go ahead and take Julia out. Meg stays and now the 4 of them are sitting better than the other 3.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

It would then be 4 on 2 at the next HOH since Vanessa couldn't compete.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

But Meg doesn't really count so it would be 3 vs. 2. If Julia stays it's 3 vs. 2.5 (I give Julia the benefit of the doubt she's worth half of a comp player). Only problem for Vanessa is James might target her so she has to try to pull him in (with the help of JMac and Steve), but given she's in an alliance with everyone else in the house except Meg, James wouldn't necessarily have the votes to evict her.


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

bryhamm said:


> There are 8 people left:
> 
> Austin
> Liz
> ...


Steve is the wildcard. I'm sure James and John will vote Julia out.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

There's some speculation Judas would vote out Julia and try to pin it on Steve so that Liz won't be able to choose Julia over him in the game.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

yeah, vanessa has casually tossed out julia's name to steve during a couple of conversations, but he's clearly not ready to commit (afraid of austin & liz). if judas were to climb on board the julia eviction train, steve could even be brought on board, but then there'd be no one to blame the vote on!


----------



## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

That would be best for Judas' game. 

I'm all for loyal alliances... but, Vanessa's hypocrisy (what's a better word?) kills me! She never remembers when SHE went back on her word - only when others do. And, then it makes her cry because she's so completely loyal, why do they do this to her?  And, then others agree with her. They're so dumb!

During the last show when she's talking about how close Meg and James are, and in Big Brother you have to split that up. Uhm... what about the strongest couple AND the twins. And, Liz keeps winning things. Does that not count in Big Brother? One out, two people are affected. Yes, they may come after her, so I do get that. 

I do think she's played a savvy game. She wins when she needs to, she manipulates pretty easily - but I fear she needs to get rid of one of them now, else she'll be left out at the end. Her version isn't fun and open like previous manipulators, though. That bugs me. She seems smarmy or something. Plus, aligning with Austin - ugh! I am so sick of him.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

SoBelle0 said:


> I'm all for loyal alliances... but, Vanessa's hypocrisy (what's a better word?) kills me! She never remembers when SHE went back on her word - only when others do. And, then it makes her cry because she's so completely loyal, why do they do this to her?  And, then others agree with her. They're so dumb!
> 
> I do think she's played a savvy game. She wins when she needs to, she manipulates pretty easily - but I fear she needs to get rid of one of them now, else she'll be left out at the end. Her version isn't fun and open like previous manipulators, though. That bugs me. She seems smarmy or something. Plus, aligning with Austin - ugh! I am so sick of him.


smarmy is a great description.  her entire game is based on vocalizing her justifications and rationalizations for her moves, always needing a "reason" (for others and the camera), so she pulls one incident out of context, sometimes from weeks prior, then begins building her case.

it makes for good tv, but how many times can the other hg keep falling for it? while it's disturbing to watch, it's even more disturbing to watch others in the house eat it up, hook, line, & sinker, week after week. austin hangs on every word, so does steve, and now jmac appears to have bought in. i'm awestruck.


----------



## jgickler (Apr 7, 2000)

series5orpremier said:


> There's some speculation Judas would vote out Julia and try to pin it on Steve so that Liz won't be able to choose Julia over him in the game.


As we have seen many times this year, the house likes to make the vote unanimous or with a token vote in opposition when there is no chance of the vote being close. So if Steve is the swing vote, I think JMac, and maybe even James will vote whichever way Steve goes. So I don't think Judas will have the ability to change the way the vote goes without doing so publically, and that doesn't allow him to put the blame on Steve.

So IMO, the vote is either 4-1 or 5-0 to get Meg out ( James may give Meg a sympathy vote) or it is 3-2 to get out Julia with the votes being James, JMac, and Steve. I don't see anyway that Julia is voted out and Meg's 2 votes are Steve and Liz, it will be Austin and Liz with Judas sitting this one out.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Vanessa = smarmy

Houseguests = stupid

Austin = icky

Perfect.


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

nyny523 said:


> Vanessa = smarmy
> 
> Houseguests = stupid
> 
> ...


That pretty much sums up this season. If they don't vote Julia out this week it will be the 2nd season in a row where half the house sits on their hands and isn't trying to win.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

SoBelle0 said:


> That would be best for Judas' game.
> 
> I'm all for loyal alliances... but, Vanessa's hypocrisy (what's a better word?) kills me! She never remembers when SHE went back on her word - only when others do. And, then it makes her cry because she's so completely loyal, why do they do this to her?  And, then others agree with her. They're so dumb!
> 
> ...


This is pretty accurate, but I am also getting more irritated with Meg's hypocrisy. This week and after being put on the block with Jackie during double eviction, Meg acts all offended and completely undeserving of ever being nominated. She actually said to James the other night that she doesn't scheme, that Vanessa is the only one who is ever scheming. In reality, Meg and James are constantly scheming together, and with others, about what to say and what promises to make to stay in the house.

Almost all the HG's are talking game whenever they get one or more people alone in a room. Its BB. It's part of the game. I love the scheming and strategy...it's why I watch.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

steve refuses to pull the trigger and send julia to jury, he made a deal today with the twins - he will keep julia safe tonight by voting to evict meg, if they agree not to nom or renom him. steve then immediately discussed his plan to vote to evict meg with jmac, and jmac agreed with the vote. any hopes for a vote flip that sends julia to jury appear dead.

the hg still don't seem to know tonight is double eviction.


----------



## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

NorthAlabama said:


> steve refuses to pull the trigger and send julia to jury, he made a deal today with the twins - he will keep julia safe tonight by voting to evict meg, if they agree not to nom or renom him. steve then immediately discussed his plan to vote to evict meg with jmac, and jmac agreed with the vote. any hopes for a vote flip that sends julia to jury appear dead.
> 
> the hg still don't seem to know tonight is double eviction.


OMG those two are effing idiots.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

DavidTigerFan said:


> OMG those two are effing idiots.


Dumb a$$es. They let the perfect opportunity go to waste.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

the hoh comp has just started...


----------



## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

well, the only way steve or jmac has a chance is to win hoh now


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

DavidTigerFan said:


> well, the only way steve or jmac has a chance is to win hoh now


yup, vanessa has already spoken with the twins to make sure steve & jmac are the noms, and she's been working to convince austin it's in his best interest to throw the hoh comp (so she can win )...


----------



## jmcdon00 (Jul 26, 2012)

Why is big brother after dark not on tonight? It's just showing interviews with the cast. I think it's because there is a HOH comp, but why don't they just show it? Disapointed


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

jmcdon00 said:


> Why is big brother after dark not on tonight? It's just showing interviews with the cast. I think it's because there is a HOH comp, but why don't they just show it? Disapointed


look 3 posts back:



NorthAlabama said:


> the hoh comp has just started...



they might finish before bbad ends...


----------



## jmcdon00 (Jul 26, 2012)

But why not just show the competition, that's the best part.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

jmcdon00 said:


> But why not just show the competition, that's the best part.


the live feeds (& bbad) always block comps & ceremonies, they don't show dr sessions, either.


----------



## jmcdon00 (Jul 26, 2012)

Learn something new everyday. What is the reasoning?


----------



## Eight47 (Feb 22, 2003)

jmcdon00 said:


> Learn something new everyday. What is the reasoning?


Ratings! CBS wants you to watch the show.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

steve won hoh, i wonder who vannessa's his noms will be? hint: austin doesn't look pleased.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

NorthAlabama said:


> steve won hoh, i wonder who vannessa's his noms will be? hint: austin doesn't look pleased.


I am pretty sure he is so afraid of pissing the others off that he will nominate himself.


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Thank goodness! JMac winning would have been better, but at least it's not one of the Austwins winning.


----------



## whoknows55 (Jun 17, 2001)

markz said:


> I am pretty sure he is so afraid of pissing the others off that he will nominate himself.


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

NorthAlabama said:


> steve won hoh, i wonder who vannessa's his noms will be? hint: austin doesn't look pleased.


He'll be hospitalized by the end of the week from dehydration. He'll be throwing up trying to make a tough decision.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

markz said:


> I am pretty sure he is so afraid of pissing the others off that he will nominate himself.






JFriday said:


> He'll be hospitalized by the end of the week from dehydration. He'll be throwing up trying to make a tough decision.


he told austin at least he'd be throwing up in the hoh bathroom in private.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> steve won hoh, i wonder who vannessa's his noms will be? hint: austin doesn't look pleased.


If he doesn't nominate 2 out of the Austwins and put the third if one gets vetoed (or Vanessa if the 3rd Austwin wins the veto,) he should walk out on Thursday along with the evicted HG.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

verdugan said:


> If he doesn't nominate 2 out of the Austwins and put the third if one gets vetoed (or Vanessa if the 3rd Austwin wins the veto,) he should walk out on Thursday along with the evicted HG.


i agree, we'll know the noms later today.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

steve has just broken the news to liz and austin, they will be today's noms.

liz is having a breakdown, austin is glad he at least gets a chance to play for veto, and vannessa is telling austwins she is shocked, _shocked_, at steve's decision (that she dictated to steve ).

so, it's jmac & steve vs. austwins, with vanessa in the middle, and vanessa has alliances with everyone in the house. hmmmmmmmmmmm, wonder who's got the best shot to win this year...


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

NorthAlabama said:


> steve has just broken the news to liz and austin, they will be today's noms.
> 
> liz is having a breakdown, austin is glad he at least gets a chance to play for veto, and vannessa is telling austwins she is shocked, _shocked_, at steve's decision (that she dictated to steve ).
> 
> so, it's jmac & steve vs. austwins, with vanessa in the middle, and vanessa has alliances with everyone in the house. hmmmmmmmmmmm, wonder who's got the best shot to win this year...


I would have loved seeing him nominate Austin and Julia. And then if Austin won POV and saved himself, replace him with Liz.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

markz said:


> I would have loved seeing him nominate Austin and Julia. And then if Austin won POV and saved himself, replace him with Liz.


that would have left austin vulnerable, and vanessa wants liz gone first (the bigger threat). steve still thinks his target is austin, vanessa hasn't let him in on the plan, yet.

the bb17 twittersphere blew up on james' eviction, a lot of unhappy campers once vanessa's only enemy left the house. heck, even meg still thinks it was the "right decision" to keep vanessa over shelli during becky's hoh...vanessa has skills.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

markz said:


> I would have loved seeing him nominate Austin and Julia. And then if Austin won POV and saved himself, replace him with Liz.


There are only six HG's left so everyone plays for veto now. Better to nominate your two main targets than relying the veto to be used (what if the veto winner didn't want to use the veto?).

It's best to get rid of Liz because she is the common link between Austin and Julia.

Plus, this isn't a garauntee that an Austwin goes home this week. Worst case scenario is that the Austwin that is not nominated wins veto. Then that person can pull one of the nominees off the block and as the veto-holder, can't be the replacement nominee. That means JMac or Vanessa go up, and the two safe Austwin members control the vote...and we end up with all three Austwin's still in the house.

So, it's so important that the one Austwin member who is not nominated does not win this week's veto. It's best if that person is Julia who seems least likely to win a comp.


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

markz said:


> I am pretty sure he is so afraid of pissing the others off that he will nominate himself.


lol


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> steve still thinks his target is austin, vanessa hasn't let him in on the plan, yet.


LOL

I don't like Vanessa's game, but she's the only one who is actually playing.

If I were a juror, she'd get my vote.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

the noms are official: liz & austin. steve goes into the hoh room, the door closes, and he does a happy dance, then says "suckers".

austin & steve talk about tomorrows veto, they seem to be ok (for now). liz is in full whine "why me, what have i done" meltdown mode, tells austin she can't depend on julia to win the veto, says she would _never_ do this to steve (remember telling julia after last nights de "steve needs to go? ). first time on the block is really tough, i guess...


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> the noms are official: liz & austin. steve goes into the hoh room, the door closes, and he does a happy dance, then says "suckers".


Too funny. I hope they show that on Sunday.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

austin seems to think cbs will lose viewers if he's evicted, liz feels the same will happen if she goes. 

warning: objects self perception is different than what appears in reality.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> austin seems to think cbs will lose viewers if he's evicted, liz feels the same will happen if she goes.
> 
> warning: objects self perception is different than what appears in reality.


LOL

I came to post the same thing. They're so out of touch with reality that it's funny.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

austin won pov! 

this season may have a few interesting moments left, i only hope steve doesn't leave the house in an ambulance before the veto ceremony.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

This is easy - just put up Julia. One of the twins goes home and the threesome is kaput.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

nyny523 said:


> This is easy - just put up Julia. One of the twins goes home and the threesome is kaput.


jmac told steve that julia was the obvious choice for replacement nom. of course, the best move for steve's game is to have any two of austwins on the block thursday, but who goes home? liz is the strongest player between the two, but i don't see austin voting to evict liz.

vanessa is going to be working overtime to send liz to jury this week, the crocodile tears are already flowing. she's angry with austin, claims if he was willing to throw the veto comp to julia (to protect both twins with the veto), then vanessa was his real target to be evicted this week. its all about vanessa. 

jmac and austin have been discussing vanessa's game between themselves and are beginning to realize she has alliances with everyone left in the house in order to make it to final 2, this could really get interesting...


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Of course Liz would be the better choice over Julia, but either one leaving accomplishes the same goal, which is breaking up the threesome.

Once that happens, things may start to get interesting.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> jmac and austin have been discussing vanessa's game between themselves and are beginning to realize she has alliances with everyone left in the house in order to make it to final 2, this could really get interesting...


True, but none of her deals are as strong as the deal between the Austwins.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I hope Vanessa is not the replacement nominee.

It *has* to be Julia if any of them have any brain cells left.

I would then vote out Liz. Not only is she the stronger threat compared to Julia, but she also has a bond with both Julia and Austin. If she stays, she still has Austin. If Julia stays, she's alone.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

This week has to be Liz, but then Austin/JMac/Steve/Julia need to be smart enough to realize that none of them have a chance to win unless they evict Vanessa next week.


----------



## Barmat (Jun 1, 2001)

And you just know Vanessa will win HOH next week.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Barmat said:


> And you just know Vanessa will win HOH next week.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

From bigbrothernetwork.com



> Vanessa worked Austin through the reasons of why itd be better to evict Julia before switching gears and making the same case for Liz.


Wow, Vanessa is all over the place. She's even campaigning against herself.

It's too bad that she's the only one playing the game this year. The season showed such promise.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

veto ceremony is over, the twins are on the block together, liz as target.

last night vanessa and jmac talked, they will continue to target julia & austin once liz is evicted (if thursday goes as planned). austin also suggested to jmac he would vote to evict julia, and let jmac & vanessa vote to evict liz (so he wouldn't have to vote against liz).

steve and vanessa also talked jmac vs austin for final three, vanessa told steve she thinks jmac would be more likely to win over austin in the final hoh.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

This is easy for Vanessa. All she has to do next week is run to the side of whoever wins HOH, if she doesn't win it herself.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

i'm thinking she doesn't want to be hoh following this week's eviction, she feels comfortable and protected by her alliances, and wants to wait and see how next week plays out before trying for her next power grab. she's on cruise control as long as her plans aren't in jeopardy.

one minor flaw in vanessa's plans for this week: she had a conversation with the twins when it became obvious julia would be the replacement nom, and led them to believe it was _their _decision which was evicted (not true, liz is the target). if the twins go back to vanessa and tell her they've decided that julia should go this week, i have no idea what vanessa could possibly plan to tell them before thursday, i guess she'll blame it on jmac or steve. why did she make such a boneheaded promise to them?


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

NorthAlabama said:


> one minor flaw in vanessa's plans for this week: she had a conversation with the twins when it became obvious julia would be the replacement nom, and led them to believe it was _their _decision which was evicted (not true, liz is the target). if the twins go back to vanessa and tell her they've decided that julia should go this week, i have no idea what vanessa could possibly plan to tell them before thursday, i guess she'll blame it on jmac or steve. why did she make such a boneheaded promise to them?


Vanessa is the controlling vote, so I guess she could let it be their decision so as to build trust in the survivor. She might get lucky that they choose Liz, or if not spin it to create a target for the survivor and Austin on the other side of the house. The twins are already petrified of JMac and now hate Steve too. If she gets any bad vibes from JMac/Steve she might decide to keep Liz with Austin to keep a big distracting target in the house.


----------



## mjh (Dec 19, 2002)

series5orpremier said:


> This week has to be Liz, but then Austin/JMac/Steve/Julia need to be smart enough to realize that none of them have a chance to win unless they evict Vanessa next week.


Really? Vanessa has made a lot of enemies. Wouldn't the best strategy be to get to the F2 with her and count on all of those enemies in the jury voting against her?


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Juries are unpredictable.

Sometimes they vote with their head, sometimes they vote with their heart.

Vanessa - as annoying as she is - is playing the best game right now. So if they vote with their heads, she wins.

But most of the jury is pretty mad at her - so if they vote with their hearts, she is screwed.

You really never know...


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

nyny523 said:


> Juries are unpredictable.
> 
> Sometimes they vote with their head, sometimes they vote with their heart.
> 
> ...


I think if I were a juror I would vote for Vanessa over any of the remaining HG's. I don't like her and I don't like how she's playing the game, but she is the only one who is actually playing the game. (Maybe JMac and Steve a bit lately.)


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

if i were on the jury, i would vote for her to win over any other remaining hg, too. she's in a really good spot, and has maintained alliances all around. even if someone steps up and begins winning every comp possible, they still have a tough sell if sitting next to her at finale. 

that's why evicting her at the next opportunity is the smartest game move for any remaining hg, and the only way i can see anyone else win - don't let her get any further. now the question: who has the will to go against her, and put her up and out? my answer: not a single player remaining. it's almost sad, but not surprising.


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Well, Steve has mentioned to the cameras that he doesn't trust Van. And the Austwins have finally figured out that she has F2/F3 with them and probably with Steve and JMac, too. So could be that someone will take her out. But I'm not holding my breath. Much as I find her extremely annoying, she is playing hard and if she's there at the end, she'd get my vote.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

vulture.com had a feature on les moonves and his 20 years at cbs, there was an exchange about this season's big brother cast:


> *v: * And yet you're still involved on a micro level with a lot of decisions. I've heard you still play a role in signing off on the cast for Big Brother &#8230;
> 
> *lm: * By the way, this wasn't a great year for casting on Big Brother.
> 
> ...



ouch!


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> vulture.com had a feature on les moonves and his 20 years at cbs, there was an exchange about this season's big brother cast:
> ​
> ouch!


Lol. I saw that Jokers spent most of the day trying to guess which ones he was talking about. My guess includes Audrey & the Amazing Racers. I'm not sure who else was a disappointment, but those 3 didn't live up to the hype.

It's also an odd statement since the end of the takeovers was because the cast was strong, and the twists weren't needed.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

realityboy said:


> Lol. I saw that Jokers spent most of the day trying to guess which ones he was talking about. My guess includes Audrey & the Amazing Racers. I'm not sure who else was a disappointment, but those 3 didn't live up to the hype.
> 
> It's also an odd statement since the end of the takeovers was because the cast was strong, and the twists weren't needed.


I would say Steve. For a "superfan" he really hasn't done much (prior to this week).


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

realityboy said:


> Lol. I saw that Jokers spent most of the day trying to guess which ones he was talking about. My guess includes Audrey & the Amazing Racers. I'm not sure who else was a disappointment, but those 3 didn't live up to the hype.
> 
> It's also an odd statement since the end of the takeovers was because the cast was strong, and the twists weren't needed.


I'd add Jason to the 3 you mention.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

bryhamm said:


> I would say Steve. For a "superfan" he really hasn't done much (prior to this week).


the same can be said about austin.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

realityboy said:


> Lol. I saw that Jokers spent most of the day trying to guess which ones he was talking about.


i wonder if robyn kass was surprised by his comments, or maybe it had already been discussed?


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

hummingbird_206 said:


> I'd add Jason to the 3 you mention.


I do think he was more useless than Steve. Meg was pretty blah as well, but surely they didn't expect too much from her.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> i wonder if robyn kass was surprised by his comments, or maybe it had already been discussed?


He's weirdly over involved considering his position. Robyn gives him several, but he makes the final choice. And she can't be blamed for the racers. Season 13, he was underwhelmed with the cast and added the 6 returning players last minute.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

verdugan said:


> I think if I were a juror I would vote for Vanessa over any of the remaining HG's. I don't like her and I don't like how she's playing the game, but she is the only one who is actually playing the game. (Maybe JMac and Steve a bit lately.)


After seeing tonight's show and how Vanessa reacted when confronted by the twins after the veto, I'm going to change my (hypothetical) vote.

I'd no longer vote for Vanessa. Ugh, what a horrible way to play. She could've easily been a fan favorite.

My vote now is going to Zingbot.


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

verdugan said:


> After seeing tonight's show and how Vanessa reacted when confronted by the twins after the veto, I'm going to change my (hypothetical) vote.
> 
> I'd no longer vote for Vanessa. Ugh, what a horrible way to play. She could've easily been a fan favorite.
> 
> My vote now is going to Zingbot.


I'm just the opposite. I thought Vanessa was brilliant in her handling of the twins after the veto. If Vanessa makes it to the final two she would get my vote.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Zingbot was weak this year. I might have to consider Mr. Pectacular. And I say this with an unblemished record of staunch heterosexuality. (Google it)

Seriously, if Vanessa makes it to the final vote she will hands down win.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

You may not like the way she is doing it, but damn, Vanessa is pretty brilliant at manipulating people.

She should win.


----------



## whoknows55 (Jun 17, 2001)

nyny523 said:


> You may not like the way she is doing it, but damn, Vanessa is pretty brilliant at manipulating people.
> 
> She should win.


After the veto comp I can't argue that she's amazing at manipulating people. My jaw dropped watching her convince the twins that it made sense to challenge Austin. I just hate her gameplay/crying/adversarial style.

I view it the same way I view Evel Dick. He played a great game but I don't like how he played it.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

brianric said:


> I'm just the opposite. I thought Vanessa was brilliant in her handling of the twins after the veto. If Vanessa makes it to the final two she would get my vote.


Agreed. While Austin was pissed that Vanessa influenced Julia to pick him in the veto, when she called him on it there wasn't much he could say. He wanted Julia to win so he could remain tight with both twins. But that likely would have meant Vanessa goes home. So, how can he really confront her about that?

I was amazed that she actually fell for it.

And her spinning it to the twins by saying "he still could have thrown it to you, but obviously didn't" was brilliant.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

remember this?


NorthAlabama said:


> one minor flaw in vanessa's plans for this week: she had a conversation with the twins when it became obvious julia would be the replacement nom, and led them to believe it was _their _decision which was evicted (not true, liz is the target). if the twins go back to vanessa and tell her they've decided that julia should go this week, i have no idea what vanessa could possibly plan to tell them before thursday, i guess she'll blame it on jmac or steve. why did she make such a boneheaded promise to them?


i can't believe it, but after days of vanessa explaining to austwins the only safe move (for vanessa ) was for liz to go to jury, liztin decided vanessa may not be working in austwins best interest, and _called vanessa's bluff_! liztin wanted to expose vanessa's maneuvering, and possibly gain ammunition to use against her later. the result was c - all of the above.

now busted, vanessa agrees to keep liz, with conditions. ive read different reports of these conditions, and could only listen to the twins talk for so long on the hammock before becoming nauseous, so this isnt necessarily 100% accurate:

if liztin win hoh thursday, jmac & steve are the noms (that still leaves vanessa as the only choice for renom). 
there was also a claim that vanessa secured safety from being renom if the veto is used, but that makes no sense, shed be the only choice left in final 5 without one of liztin going up instead.
if jmac & steve are the final noms, vanessa gets to pick who goes to jury (steve). 
in final 3, the remaining liztin must pick vanessa for final 2 (unless liztin & vanessa all make it to final 3, then, of course, liztin will pick each other).
liz is safe, julia's headed for jury, and liz explained the terms to julia. whether or not liztin keep their word is yet to be seen, and how, or if, vanessa explains this to steve is anyone's guess.

julia told steve he was safe next week (obviously not true), while vanessa was telling steve to watch out for liztin. as steve was watching austin and vanessa talking on the hoh monitor, he deduced from their actions that vanessa is safe next week (smart call), so now he knows he's in trouble.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

NorthAlabama said:


> remember this?
> ​i can't believe it, but after days of vanessa explaining to austwins the only safe move (for vanessa ) was for liz to go to jury, liztin decided vanessa may not be working in austwins best interest, and _called vanessa's bluff_! liztin wanted to expose vanessa's maneuvering, and possibly gain ammunition to use against her later. the result was c - all of the above.
> 
> now busted, vanessa agrees to keep liz, with conditions. ive read different reports of these conditions, and could only listen to the twins talk for so long on the hammock before becoming nauseous, so this isnt necessarily 100% accurate:
> ...


If I am thinking it through correctly, she would have to go up as the replacement but the HOH would split the tie (assuming there would be one). Thus, she would be safe.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

NorthAlabama said:


> remember this?
> ​i can't believe it, but after days of vanessa explaining to austwins the only safe move (for vanessa ) was for liz to go to jury, liztin decided vanessa may not be working in austwins best interest, and _called vanessa's bluff_! liztin wanted to expose vanessa's maneuvering, and possibly gain ammunition to use against her later. the result was c - all of the above.
> 
> now busted, vanessa agrees to keep liz, with conditions. ive read different reports of these conditions, and could only listen to the twins talk for so long on the hammock before becoming nauseous, so this isnt necessarily 100% accurate:
> ...


I was wondering what would happen if Austin came to Vanessa and asked that Liz be saved, what she would do then.

Your recap exposes a big flaw in her logic/lies web that she got caught in.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

bryhamm said:


> If I am thinking it through correctly, she would have to go up as the replacement but the HOH would split the tie (assuming there would be one). Thus, she would be safe.


safety from the vote makes perfect sense. deals don't matter much to the house at this point, i can't see any hg honoring a deal that wasn't also convenient to what they'd planned to do anyway.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

That's a lot of dealing though. Vanessa should play the odds by booting Liz and then hoping one of John or her wins HoH and can get Austin out.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

brianric said:


> I'm just the opposite. I thought Vanessa was brilliant in her handling of the twins after the veto. If Vanessa makes it to the final two she would get my vote.


Oh, she's brilliant. I couldn't believe she was able to convince Julia to challenge Austin and then come out ok when confronted after the veto. Wow!

I just can't stand the crying. Ugh.

But yeah, she's the only one who deserves to win. It is not pretty, but she's got game.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

whoknows55 said:


> After the veto comp I can't argue that she's amazing at manipulating people. My jaw dropped watching her convince the twins that it made sense to challenge Austin. I just hate her gameplay/crying/adversarial style.
> 
> I view it the same way I view Evel Dick. He played a great game but I don't like how he played it.


Exactly! I just wish there was somebody else who was actually playing the game instead of considering their stay in the BB House as sleep away camp.


----------



## Jolt (Jan 9, 2006)

She has the crying down. I mean even tears. I liked that she is even willing to do the taboo and swear on the lives of those she loves. lol. 

I want either John or Steve to win but do think Vanessa deserves it.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

the havenot room's door has been locked, steve is making himself nauseous worrying about game twists that might later appear behind the door. if _any _season needed a reset...

eta: good thing bb decided to let him keep his teddy bear.


----------



## angbear1985 (Aug 25, 2006)

At the beginning of the season... wasn't there supposed to be "expect the unexpected" every week? Some new twist every week ?


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

angbear1985 said:


> At the beginning of the season... wasn't there supposed to be "expect the unexpected" every week? Some new twist every week ?


Yeah the "BB Takeover" lasted like 2 weeks and then nothing.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Can someone post the HOH winner if they find out?

Thanks!


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

so much for the packaged pr media release following it's disappearance: "We had so much going on, it was better to focus on the pure game"...if, only.


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

From Joker's 

Thu 7:38 PM BBT	Van Wins


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

it appears it was neck and neck between vanessa & jmac. did i see liz took the luxury prize? if so, looks like she and austin will have their first date outside the house...


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Thanks!


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

after last night's exhausting search by vanessa for her much needed "reasons" who to nominate for eviction (jmac & steve at this point, no surprises), we're getting a break:

_the live feeds are now down and will remain out until 2:30am eastern saturday morning (11:30pm pacific friday night).​_speculation is liz's trip outside the house. the feeds will also be down monday for the ffwd eviction (airing tuesday night).


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> after last night's exhausting search by vanessa for her much needed "reasons" who to nominate for eviction (jmac & steve at this point, no surprises), we're getting a break:
> 
> _the live feeds are now down and will remain out until 2:30am eastern saturday morning (11:30pm pacific friday night).​_speculation is liz's trip outside the house. the feeds will also be down monday for the ffwd eviction (airing tuesday night).


Wouldn't it be better to break Austin and Liz?


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

verdugan said:


> Wouldn't it be better to break Austin and lizLiz?


yes, it would. she holds the tie-break vote as hoh, and unless one of liztin go up & out after the veto, this will go down as vanessa's biggest mistake (after keeping liz this week). sending steve (or jmac) to jury during ffwd allows a power couple, with comp wins, into the final four - anyone can do the math at this point.

add the fact liztin have no plans to honor any agreements with her (and they shouldn't), vanessa will be in a tough spot since she can't win the next hoh. i don't know why she can't see it, but keeping liz, only to then nominate steve & jmac the following week, makes no sense to me.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> yes, it would. she holds the tie-break vote as hoh, and unless one of liztin go up & out after the veto, this will go down as vanessa's biggest mistake (after keeping liz this week). sending steve (or jmac) to jury during ffwd allows a power couple, with comp wins, into the final four - anyone can do the math at this point.
> 
> add the fact liztin have no plans to honor any agreements with her (and they shouldn't), vanessa will be in a tough spot since she can't win the next hoh. * i don't know why she can't see it, *but keeping liz, only to then nominate steve & jmac the following week, makes no sense to me.


Re: the bolded part above, maybe she's believing her own hype? Between no other HGs actually playing and like she said a couple of episodes ago, she's an expert in possibilities (or something like that)


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

On the other hand, keeping Liz and Austin together keeps a bigger target than herself in the house. Maybe looking ahead to the jury vote she can also argue about loyalty and keeping her word since she was with them from the beginning. If somebody is saved in the veto she can still change direction and target Liztin but I'm not sure it would be in her best interest to do so. She'd be left with all three others in the house targeting her. If she evicts John or Steve, Liztin is still there as a target for the survivor.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

there are two evictions between now and final 3 wednesday night, vanessa better hope liztin is at least one of them, or she's screwed.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

series5orpremier said:


> On the other hand, keeping Liz and Austin together keeps a bigger target than herself in the house. Maybe looking ahead to the jury vote she can also argue about loyalty and keeping her word since she was with them from the beginning. If somebody is saved in the veto she can still change direction and target Liztin but I'm not sure it would be in her best interest to do so. She'd be left with all three others in the house targeting her. If she evicts John or Steve, Liztin is still there as a target for the survivor.


That might be part of her thinking. On the surface, it does seem that nominating Liz and Austin is the smart move. However, maybe Vanessa is thinking ahead to jury votes. If she betrays Austin and Liz, there could be at least two jurors (three if all three Austwins end up on the jury) who will take it personal. I think they would take it more personal than Steve nominating them this past week.

If JMac goes this week then Vanessa might be relying on the next HoH being the "Before or After" comp as it usually is, and that comp seems like it's made for Steve to win. Then he nominates Ausin and Liz.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

She has to get lucky either way. If she's not on the block and a renom is required she'll be evicted.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

steve & jmac are the noms.

rumors are a sometimes pink haired brother of a certain singer was the "special guest" that came to take liz (and austin?) on their trip outside the house. i wonder if it's coincidence ariana grande was performing in los angeles last night...


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Sounds more like a punishment than a luxury prize. I'd rather be a have-not.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

series5orpremier said:


> Sounds more like a punishment than a luxury prize. I'd rather be a have-not.


 thank-you, my first laugh of the day.


----------



## jay_man2 (Sep 15, 2003)

series5orpremier said:


> Sounds more like a punishment than a luxury prize. I'd rather be a have-not.


More slop, please.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

I don't know which would be worse - spending the day with Frankie or going to his sister's concert.

Both would give me a headache...


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

No way would I want to spend any time with Frankie. But I like Ariana's music so the concert would have been ok.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

NorthAlabama said:


> steve & jmac are the noms.


Which one is Austin and Liz's target (assuming the noms stay the same)?


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

My guess would be JMac, but they were mad at Steve for putting the twins up, so who knows...


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

it all depends on who wins veto later today. that gives vanessa time to run through a 1,000 different scenarios before coming up with the latest "excuse" reason to sell her choice to be evicted.

jmac made a final 3 pitch to liztin, offered to throw the veto. the final 5 veto. before ffwd. jmac, it was good knowing you...


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

i must really be bored...



Spoiler



twas the morning of veto

twas the morning of veto, and all through the house,
not a player was stirring, not even the louse.
the keys beside pics, on the mem-wall with care,
in hopes that eviction, the veto would spare.

liztin were nestled, all snug in their bed, 
while visions of clippers, danced in _her_ head.
there's steve with his teddy, and judas his hat, 
they're still settled in, for the long mornings nap.

when in the backyard, there arose such a clatter,
john sprang from his bed, to see what was the matter.
to the sliding glass door, he flew like a flash,
looking to see how to win final 2 cash.

the sun gently beaming from the waves of the pool,
gave hints to his fluster, throw the comp like a fool.
when, what, to his foggy, closed eyes would appear,
vannessa running speeches, her alliances besmear.

with a little green beanie, knit nicely and tight,
he knew in a moment, she was ready to fight.
more rapid than tears, her excuses they came,
she cried, then she argued, yelled at others by name.

now austin! now liz! now steve! now johnny!
blame james! blame shelli! blame meg! blame jackie!
the comp we will play, to try and stay safe,
while hoping our arms and our legs we wont chafe.


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

northalabama said:


> i must really be bored...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

series5orpremier said:


> She has to get lucky either way. If she's not on the block and a renom is required she'll be evicted.


That's true. Vanessa can't play for HoH next week, so she is in danger no matter who is evicted this week. She must rely on the veto next week.

Who ever goes this week, I really don't see any of the other three taking Vanessa to the finals. Sure, Liz and Austin would take each other over Vanessa, but it seems just as likely that Steve and JMac would take each other over her also. Even if she gets rid of Austin or Liz this week, if Vanessa is on the block come the next eviction night, who ever holds the singe vote would probably evict her. They would be stupid not to.


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Looks like JMac won veto. I'm glad. I like him! Since he was the target, wonder who will go home now?


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

It's a Liztin renom and the Liztin voter will vote to evict Steve. JMac can either go along with that or vote to evict the Liztin renom, which is his best move (Liztin would target him regardless). Then Vanessa is the tie breaking vote. Who knows what will go through her twisted demented mind. JMac might vote the way she wants since she'll have final say anyway. Even if she wants Steve out I'd force her to go on the record to vote against him.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

jmac's win is the best case scenario for viewers! 

it was a veto puzzle comp, and steve mentioned something about watching a tv show, so there was at least one prize. vanessa is busy working through scenarios using skittles as she decides who to renom, this will be good.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

Here is why not targeting Liztin this week might have been the better move for Vanessa:

By nominating Steve and JMac (and now that JMac has the veto), here is what next week looks like if Steve goes home, with Liz, Austin, and JMac competing for HoH:

1. Liz wins HoH and noms are Van and JMac (Vanessa's must win veto or she stays on the block)

2. Austin wins HoH and noms are Van and JMac (Vanessa's must win veto or she stays on the block)

3. JMac wins HoH and the noms are probably Austin and Liz (Vanessa is safe if she wins veto and if JMac wins veto).

So she is nominated under all three scenarios, with a 25% chance of being safe in options 1 and 2, but a 50% chance of being safe in option 3.


If she had nominated Liztin this week and one of them went home (lets assume it was Austin) that leaves Liz, Steve and JMac playing for HoH and the possibilities are:

1. Liz wins HoH and noms are Van and JMac/Steve...Liz would be mad at Vanessa for breaking the Austin's Angel's alliance (Vanessa's must win veto or she stays on the block).

2. Steve wins HoH and I don't think he nominates JMac, so Vanessa and Liz are the likely targets (Vanessa's must win veto or she stays on the block).

3. JMac wins HoH and I don't think he nominates Steve, so Vanessa and Liz are the likely targets (Vanessa's must win veto or she stays on the block).

So Vanessa is likely targeted in all three scenarios and only has a 25% of winning veto in each case.

Plus, since next week's veto comp is often the one where they have a diagram of different game facts (this person won veto 4 times and they have to link that person's name to someone who was nominated 3 times/and won HoH once, etc)...I think Vanessa's biggest threat in that comp would be Steve.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

northalabama said:


> i must really be bored...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

series5orpremier said:


> It's a Liztin renom and the Liztin voter will vote to evict Steve. JMac can either go along with that or vote to evict the Liztin renom, which is his best move (Liztin would target him regardless). Then Vanessa is the tie breaking vote. Who knows what will go through her twisted demented mind. JMac might vote the way she wants since she'll have final say anyway. *Even if she wants Steve out I'd force her to go on the record to vote against him*.


Amen. JMac must make Vanessa get some "blood on her hands."


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

verdugan said:


> Amen. JMac must make Vanessa get some "blood on her hands."


did he think of this before talking with van? before jmac & van talked in the hoh room, jmac told austin he was ready to vote with liztin to evict steve, then work to send van to jury in final 4 (keeping the vote out of van's hands). liz is still leery of trusting jmac, though.

van has told liztin & steve they are all three safe this week, and since jmac has the veto, someone's getting surprised during tomorrow's ffwd show taping. in her convo with jmac, van was running different scenarios and did her best to goad jmac into suggesting targeting liztin, but he dodged her like a pro.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> did he think of this before talking with van? before jmac & van talked in the hoh room, jmac told austin he was ready to vote with liztin to evict steve, then work to send van to jury in final 4 (keeping the vote out of van's hands). liz is still leery of trusting jmac, though.
> 
> van has told liztin & steve they are all three safe this week, and since jmac has the veto, someone's getting surprised during tomorrow's ffwd show taping. in her convo with jmac, van was running different scenarios and did her best to goad jmac into suggesting targeting liztin, but he dodged her like a pro.


Thanks for the update. It's going to be a good couple of days. I still hope Vanessa goes and JMac wins.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

NorthAlabama said:


> did he think of this before talking with van? before jmac & van talked in the hoh room, jmac told austin he was ready to vote with liztin to evict steve, then work to send van to jury in final 4 (keeping the vote out of van's hands). liz is still leery of trusting jmac, though.
> 
> van has told liztin & steve they are all three safe this week, and since jmac has the veto, someone's getting surprised during tomorrow's ffwd show taping. in her convo with jmac, van was running different scenarios and did her best to goad jmac into suggesting targeting liztin, *but he dodged her like a pro*.


Dodged her like a pro, or is he just clueless? I love JMac, but he sounded so clueless about what to do in his conversation with Vanessa. Saying things like "I haven't even thought about who to vote for, guess I need to think about that huh?" He had very little to contribute. When she talked one-on-one with the other HG's, they had thought out ideas about this week's vote and what to do in final four and final three. JMac on the other hand is either playing dumb as a strategy, or he needs to start playing the game.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Dnamertz said:


> Dodged her like a pro, or is he just clueless? I love JMac, but he sounded so clueless about what to do in his conversation with Vanessa. Saying things like "I haven't even thought about who to vote for, guess I need to think about that huh?" He had very little to contribute.


taken out of context, sure, but when jmac's conversation with austin is added into the mix before his meeting with van, then it becomes obvious he has thought at least a little about the vote, and was holding back on letting van know his plans. he moved to work with liztin, rather than let van do the dirty work and stay in the background. whether it's smart move remains to be seen.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

austin is the renom.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> austin is the renom.


Hmm, tough choice for everybody except for Liz, Steve or Austin.

Austin is better at physical competitions, but Steve is better at mental ones.

If you evict Austin, it could mean 3 (or at least 2) jury votes against you.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

series5orpremier said:


> Sounds more like a punishment than a luxury prize. I'd rather be a have-not.


This is true.

The new Tapper Crapper from my giant Note 4


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

the feeds are down until sometime after tuesday nights (taped) eviction, about a day and a half.

looks as if van has tried to set herself up as the deciding vote today. she asked john to vote to evict austin, knowing liz will vote to evict steve, leaving her as the tie breaker.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

The votes probably would have gone like that anyway, but I'm sure Vanessa has convinced herself of some diabolical reason for requesting it. It makes her the hero of the surviving "couple", and she can potentially spin it make JMac the villain for voting to evict Austin. She told JMac that she's not afraid to evict Austin but I'm not sure she can be trusted.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

being caught between liztin and steve, with van as hoh, he doesn't have many good choices. forcing van choose in a tiebreak means this time van really does get blood on her hands, and everyone will believe he did as she asked, so little fallout for him.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

the last shot from the live feeds before the day and a half blackout, t-shirts were spread across the kitchen table, so it looks like they'll be recording tie-dyed t-shirt footage for bbad viewers tonight...


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

remember sunday nights clip of jmac in the dr, about his using reverse, reverse, reverse, reverse psychology with van? i read an interesting take on big brother network about jmac's strategy and dealing with van to influence the votes during the ffwd, here's a clip (spoilerized for length):



Spoiler



On Saturday night John went to Austin and told him he was ready to do bad things and that entailed turning on Steve, voting him out, and working with Liz and Austin to target Vanessa next. Yikes. That seemed crazy to go to the end with a showmance, but heck, Vanessa had been marching right along most of this season doing just that.

Then on Sunday that view changed when John revealed his plan. John explained to Steve that he needed Steve to convince Vanessa to try and convince John to keep Steve. Is your head spinning yet? John said if he proposed the idea to Vanessa to keep Steve then shed think they were still working together and automatically vote Steve out in the tie-breaker. This way she thinks its her idea and hes just going along with it.

Whether or not it works, I think this was a very interesting strategy. John may have been prepared to vote Steve out and roll with the punches if he couldnt get Vanessa to come to him. He set things up to shift to Austin and Liz for a makeshift partnership against Vanessa as a plan B and then win his way out. Now thats dedication to a strategy. It might be reckless, as weve seen from John, but its not stupid.

Sure enough, last night Vanessa came to John with a plea to vote to evict Austin so the vote would split and shed break it in Steves favor. Or at least thats what shes proposing. Now is it possible that she did all this work to deceive John in to keeping Steve just so she could then flip it back and vote Steve out? Well sure, she could, but why would she go through all that?


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Tonight's eviction



Spoiler



According to Joker's, Vanessa cast the tie-breaker vote and put Austin in jury.



New HOH


Spoiler



Steve


----------



## whoknows55 (Jun 17, 2001)

hummingbird_206 said:


> Tonight's eviction
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This was my favorite episode of big brother ever. I swear I could read Steve's mind during the tie breaker.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

That was great.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

nyny523 said:


> That was great.


Great episode. Nice move JMac.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

From Hasmterwatch.com

Nominated: JMac and Vanessa


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

Veto winner: Vanessa


----------



## angbear1985 (Aug 25, 2006)

verdugan said:


> From Hasmterwatch.com
> 
> Nominated: JMac and Vanessa




JMac, really? is his goal to target Liz? I hope !


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

So only Vanessa gets to vote, right?

She gets to decide if it will be Liz or Jmac who goes. I think she will keep Liz.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

I thought Steve was going to puke when they announced a surprise eviction!


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

angbear1985 said:


> JMac, really? is his goal to target Liz? I hope !


It really doesn't matter who is nominated, only who wins Veto, the veto winner has all the power this week.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

nyny523 said:


> So only Vanessa gets to vote, right?
> 
> She gets to decide if it will be Liz or Jmac who goes. I think she will keep Liz.


i'm not convinced van will pick liz over jmac. they all know liz has 2 jury votes locked, and while van was always working with austin, liz was along for the ride. there are several downsides to keeping liz, few upsides.



markz said:


> I thought Steve was going to puke when they announced a surprise eviction!


me, too, lucky for him it wasn't live.


----------



## whoknows55 (Jun 17, 2001)

nyny523 said:


> So only Vanessa gets to vote, right?
> 
> She gets to decide if it will be Liz or Jmac who goes. I think she will keep Liz.


That's my big fear.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

At this point, I think Vanessa is screwed no matter what she does - the best she can hope for is 2nd place.

I do think if she keeps Jmac, and can take him to final 2, she has a slim shot. She has no chance against Liz or Steve, IMHO.

And there is always the scenario where she makes final 3 and doesn't make final 2. I would love to see a Steve/Jmac final 2...


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

nyny523 said:


> And there is always the scenario where she makes final 3 and doesn't make final 2. I would love to see a Steve/Jmac final 2...


this would be great tv.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

nyny523 said:


> At this point, I think Vanessa is screwed no matter what she does - the best she can hope for is 2nd place.
> 
> I do think if she keeps Jmac, and can take him to final 2, she has a slim shot. She has no chance against Liz or Steve, IMHO.
> 
> And there is always the scenario where she makes final 3 and doesn't make final 2. I would love to see a Steve/Jmac final 2...


I disagree. What has Steve done better than her? And Liz was protected in her alliance of 3. I think shelli, James and meg are lock votes for Vanessa to win.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

I think if Vanessa gets to finals, she beats any of them left.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

bryhamm said:


> I think if Vanessa gets to finals, she beats any of them left.


even liz?


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> this would be great tv.


I would love that scenario.

I really enjoyed Austin getting blindsided. It was awesome. This scenario would top it.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

NorthAlabama said:


> even liz?


Yep. Vanessa can argue bigger moves, that Liz was protected, manipulation done, etc. Liz only gets Julia and Agustin's votes imo.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

bryhamm said:


> Yep. Vanessa can argue bigger moves, that Liz was protected, manipulation done, etc. Liz only gets Julia and Agustin's votes imo.


only 2 votes? maybe so, i still think there will be other anti-vanessa votes if vanessa makes it to final 2, no matter who sits next to her.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

As I said earlier in this thread - it depends what kind of jury this is.

There have been juries ruled by their head, and there have been juries ruled by their hearts.

If this is a cerebral jury, Van should win.
But if this is an emotional jury, she won't.

And frankly, this group hasn't been the sharpest knives in the drawer, so I am not sure they will necessarily vote with their heads.

Thus my prediction, FWIW.


----------



## dfergie (Aug 27, 2006)

nyny523 said:


> As I said earlier in this thread - it depends what kind of jury this is.
> 
> There have been juries ruled by their head, and there have been juries ruled by their hearts.
> 
> ...


They should give Vanessa time to get into their heads, maybe a few tears before voting if she makes it...


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

dfergie said:


> They should give Vanessa time to get into their heads, maybe a few tears before voting if she makes it...


I guarantee that she'll cry in her speech before the vote starts.

I played with integrity.
sniff sniff.
I tried not to get blood on my hands.
SNIFF SNIFF
I was always loyal.
Waterworks!


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

verdugan said:


> I played with integrity.
> sniff sniff.
> I tried not to get blood on my hands.
> SNIFF SNIFF
> ...


 great impersonation.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

Boo hoo. JMac is out.

I have no problem with people playing the game (lying, backstabbing, etc.) What I do have a problem with is people who do all of those things and consider themselves better than the other people who do that.

Vanessa's speech to JMac is a perfect example "You were working with Steve. If you were willing to betray him to work with me, how can I trust you?" 

She deserves an Oscar for saying that with a straight face.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

I'm sure neither Steve nor Vanessa will take Liz to the finals, so it will be interesting if the two of them are playing against each other in the final round of the HoH competition. Will they both be trying throw the last round to each other?

If one of them is HoH, that person will have evicted two of the three Austwins.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

verdugan said:


> Boo hoo. JMac is out.
> 
> I have no problem with people playing the game (lying, backstabbing, etc.) What I do have a problem with is people who do all of those things and consider themselves better than the other people who do that.


I thought you talking about Austin.



verdugan said:


> Vanessa's speech to JMac is a perfect example "You were working with Steve. If you were willing to betray him to work with me, how can I trust you?"
> 
> She deserves an Oscar for saying that with a straight face.


I don't see that as an example of her considering she is better than him. She didn't criticize him for that. She said that to point out why she can't trust that he would do what he said (and as he admitted to Julie, he would not have). She wasn't saying it as if it's something she is above doing herself. Just because a HG will betray others doesn't mean they are not going to try to avoid being betrayed themselves. That's not hypocritical...that's trying to remain in the game.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

vanessa won the endurance comp (round one of the final hoh).


----------



## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

nyny523 said:


> As I said earlier in this thread - it depends what kind of jury this is.
> 
> There have been juries ruled by their head, and there have been juries ruled by their hearts.
> 
> ...


Vanessa needs to go to the jury without any tears at all - show them it was all part of the plan, the tears and manipulation constantly was an act because she's a professional poker player. I think if she's able to do that, she could convince the jury she's worthy of the vote over Liz. I don't think Steve can win because until the last couple of weeks, Steve was a non-factor in the game and kind of creepy.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

verdugan said:


> Boo hoo. JMac is out.
> 
> I have no problem with people playing the game (lying, backstabbing, etc.) What I do have a problem with is people who do all of those things and consider themselves better than the other people who do that.
> 
> ...


How is that considering herself better? I view that as giving her "reason" to boot him, thus possibly keeping his jury vote later.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

bryhamm said:


> How is that considering herself better? I view that as giving her "reason" to boot him, thus possibly keeping his jury vote later.


That's what I'm saying. Her "reason" to boot him applies to everybody, herself included. Do you think Liz only had a deal with Vanessa?


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

verdugan said:


> That's what I'm saying. Her "reason" to boot him applies to everybody, herself included. Do you think Liz only had a deal with Vanessa?


No, but she wasn't evicting Liz, she was evicting JMac. Had she been evicting Liz, she would have gave her "reasons" for doing that.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

Dnamertz said:


> No, but she wasn't evicting Liz, she was evicting JMac. Had she been evicting Liz, she would have gave her "reasons" for doing that.


But using that as a justification for evicting him is lame because that's just playing the game. And she's done the same thing herself.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

verdugan said:


> But using that as a justification for evicting him is lame because that's just playing the game. And she's done the same thing herself.


Yes it's part of the game, but it's not lame...its a justified reason to think he would not keep his promise. She has to make a decision about who she thinks is more likely to take her over Steve. She realized that if JMac also has a longer standing promise with Steve, then despite him promising to take her, it's probably not going to happen. Whether she has done the same thing herself is not part of her decision making. She was not scolding him for probably not keeping his word, she was choosing not to trust him for it. Should she have given no reason and just said "sorry, for no reason I choose to evict you"?


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

Dnamertz said:


> Yes it's part of the game, but it's not lame...its a justified reason to think he would not keep his promise. She has to make a decision about who she thinks is more likely to take her over Steve. She realized that if JMac also has a longer standing promise with Steve, then despite him promising to take her, it's probably not going to happen. Whether she has done the same thing herself is not part of her decision making. She was not scolding him for probably not keeping his word, she was choosing not to trust him for it. Should she have given no reason and just said "sorry, for no reason I choose to evict you"?


We'll just have to agree to disagree.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

She had to give SOME reason - remember, jmac is going to jury and she needs his vote.

Whether or not is was BS doesn't matter. She made the best move for her game, pulled out what she felt was an excuse he could live with, and everyone moves on.

That's the game.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

I'm with verdugan. It's sanctimonious hypocrisy on her part. I'd like to believe I'd vote with my head and give Vanessa the win, but if I were on the jury I'd be tempted to vote against her just because of her arrogant need to appear morally superior to everyone else.

She accused JMac of being a couple with Steve so JMac was just trying to assure her that he has no special loyalty to Steve. Then she does a 180 and uses that to accuse JMac of not being loyal and trustworthy. WTF kind of circular logic is that? She deserves to lose.


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

nyny523 said:


> She had to give SOME reason - remember, jmac is going to jury and she needs his vote.
> 
> Whether or not is was BS doesn't matter. She made the best move for her game, pulled out what she felt was an excuse he could live with, and everyone moves on.
> 
> That's the game.


I have no problem with her voting JMac. It was the best move for her game. And I've said before, she's the only one playing the game and I would probably vote for her to win just because everybody else is such a snooze fest.

I'm just commenting that her big justification for voting him out, for the big reason why she couldn't trust him, is the same thing that everybody else is doing.

It's a stupid reason and it goes to show that she's either delusional, hypocritical, or self-righteous.

If she has just said "You and I didn't connect as much" or "You're a competition beast" or "I don't like your stupid pencil beard" or something else, I'd be ok with it. It also would've been better thinking ahead on jury votes.


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

series5orpremier said:


> I'm with verdugan. It's sanctimonious hypocrisy on her part. I'd like to believe I'd vote with my head and give Vanessa the win, but if I were on the jury I'd be tempted to vote against her just because of her arrogant need to appear morally superior to everyone else.
> 
> She accused JMac of being a couple with Steve so JMac was just trying to assure her that he has no special loyalty to Steve. Then she does a 180 and uses that to accuse JMac of not being loyal and trustworthy. WTF kind of circular logic is that? She deserves to lose.


She's the queen of circular logic.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

construction noises in the backyard, part 2 of the final hoh can't be far off. last year it was held friday night, and lasted a while.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

one more thing...the hollywood reporter interviewed chenbot about this season, former players, the show in general, and asks why she thinks the show has never been nominated for an emmy:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/big-brother-17-julie-chen-824412


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> one more thing...the hollywood reporter interviewed chenbot about this season, former players, the show in general, and asks why she thinks the show has never been nominated for an emmy:
> 
> http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/big-brother-17-julie-chen-824412


Thanks for the link.


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

verdugan said:


> I'm just commenting that her big justification for voting him out, for the big reason why she couldn't trust him, is the same thing that everybody else is doing.


Not true when it comes to this case. Yes, other people throughout the game were doing that, and those people were also voted out for that reason...because they could not trust the person they were evicting to not come after them. In this case, she was only choosing between JMac or Liz...both who were promising to take her to the finals. Between the two of them, she thought JMac was less believable so she evicted him for it and said so.



verdugan said:


> It's a stupid reason and it goes to show that she's either delusional, hypocritical, or self-righteous.
> 
> If she has just said "You and I didn't connect as much" or "You're a competition beast" or "I don't like your stupid pencil beard" or something else, I'd be ok with it. It also would've been better thinking ahead on jury votes.


Now that is a stupid reason. Final four of BB and you want her reason to be "we didn't connect as much"? That's the reason you give in the first week. At this point in the game you are making a decision based on who you think is more likely to take you in the final HoH, or who you are more likely to beat. She told JMac why she thinks he is more likely to take Steve than her.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> one more thing...the hollywood reporter interviewed chenbot about this season, former players, the show in general, and asks why she thinks the show has never been nominated for an emmy:
> 
> http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/big-brother-17-julie-chen-824412





verdugan said:


> Thanks for the link.


Yes - thank you!


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Dnamertz said:


> Not true when it comes to this case.


The REAL reason, which I stated a while back in one of the individual show threads, is that Vanessa would want to keep a balance of power all the way to the end by taking one of Liz/Austin and one of Steve/JMac to the final three. If Steve had been up there on the block instead of JMac he would have been evicted instead. V knew Liz hates Steve for targeting the twins and Liz is afraid of JMac because the twins evicted him. As long as the other two are distracted by one another and probably won't work together Vanessa knew it maximized her chances of getting to the final two.

Given that, she didn't have to personalize it to try to make it sound like a JMac character issue or that JMac had any control over the outcome other than winning the veto. I found it rather low of her to lead JMac on by drawing out his statements of loyalty to her that she wanted to hear, only to use those very statements as a false pretext for evicting him. All she had to do was say it's a game decision that probably maximizes her chances and be done with it.


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

series5orpremier said:


> The REAL reason, which I stated a while back in one of the individual show threads, is that Vanessa would want to keep a balance of power all the way to the end by taking one of Liz/Austin and one of Steve/JMac to the final three. If Steve had been up there on the block instead of JMac he would have been evicted instead. V knew Liz hates Steve for targeting the twins and Liz is afraid of JMac because the twins evicted him. As long as the other two are distracted by one another and probably won't work together Vanessa knew it maximized her chances of getting to the final two.
> 
> Given that, *she didn't have to personalize it to try to make it sound like a JMac character issue *or that JMac had any control over the outcome other than winning the veto. I found it rather low of her to lead JMac on by drawing out his statements of loyalty to her that she wanted to hear, only to use those very statements as a false pretext for evicting him. All she had to do was say it's a game decision that probably maximizes her chances and be done with it.


I guess the difference is that I did not take what she said as being personal at all. She didn't think he would keep his word so she said that was her reason, she didn't attack him for it. Just like all the other HG's who pointed out that Vanessa can't be trusted were probably not attacking her personally. I understand Vanessa is annoying at times and has played the game aggressively, but there is a hatred for her that is causing some to want to pick apart everything she does and says and make it some horrible thing.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Steve won pt 2 of the HOH. That'll make the finale interesting. I think Liz gets 2nd either way so it's one comp to decide the winner.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Well, it's just the same old pattern going back to nearly everyone she had a hand in evicting, best illustrated with her use of cry-fights. She has to play the victim and come up with some narrative that she's somehow wronged or about to be wronged to justify why each 'guilty' individual deserves to leave. She won't own up to the fact that she's the one doing by far the most dirty work in the game and most of the time people aren't leaving because of their own behavioral shortcomings but because of her calculated manipulation.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Why should she?

It's working and she keeps winning.

It's a game. Like her or not, she is playing better than anyone else this season. I am not a fan, but she deserves to win at this point.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

nyny523 said:


> Why should she?
> 
> It's working and she keeps winning.
> 
> It's a game. Like her or not, she is playing better than anyone else this season. I am not a fan, but she deserves to win at this point.


Totally agree. I couldn't stand Vanessa in the beginning, but slowly warmed up to her towards the end. Sort of like Russell in Survivor. Hope Vanessa wins it all.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

i hope steve wins part 3 of the final hoh, and picks liz. bye, felicia vanessa!


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

nyny523 said:


> Why should she?


For the case at hand she didn't have to give any explanation other than it's a game decision. For your question in general it goes back to the original topic which was the jury vote. There comes a line where if she continues to do this to such an extreme it can start to be counter-productive and cost her jury votes. I think she's walked right up to that line but hasn't crossed it (yet), but the game's almost over and there's not much competition for an alternative winner so she might be OK. You'd think when it comes time to make a case to the jury that she'd want to take credit for all that, but if she has convinced herself to believe her own poor little victim BS (I don't think she has) you never know.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

NorthAlabama said:


> i hope steve wins part 3 of the final hoh, and picks liz. bye, felicia vanessa!


I don't really care at this point who wins. I just hope it's entertaining! I think Vanessa has played the best game, but I don't like her.

I read on one of the feed sites that Steve wanted him and Van to tell Liz that she's out since they have a final 2 deal. Of course, Van doesn't want to do that because she has told Liz she'll take her. I wish Steve would get balls enough to out that Van has a final 2 with both of them. That could be lots of fun!

I think Steve will honor the deal and take Van if he wins. I'm not sure Van will take him if she wins. I think she'll probably take Liz.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

hummingbird_206 said:


> I don't really care at this point who wins. I just hope it's entertaining! I think Vanessa has played the best game, but I don't like her.
> 
> I read on one of the feed sites that Steve wanted him and Van to tell Liz that she's out since they have a final 2 deal. Of course, Van doesn't want to do that because she has told Liz she'll take her. I wish Steve would get balls enough to out that Van has a final 2 with both of them. That could be lots of fun!
> 
> I think Steve will honor the deal and take Van if he wins. I'm not sure Van will take him if she wins. I think she'll probably take Liz.


i think steve was testing van for her reaction, and got his answer, multiple times - she plans to take liz to final 2. i'm hoping this is enough to convince him to pick liz if he wins, and send van to jury. liz is really the best option for both in final 2.

telling liz about his final 2 deal with van wouldn't help his game, and she probably has already suspected as much (or not, we are talking about liz ).


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

I would be shocked if Steve takes Vanessa. He is such a student of the game, that he should remember Cody and Derrick last season. If Cody had taken Victoria to the final 2, he would've won 500k.

Of course, Steve has to beat Vanessa first in the 3rd part of the HOH competition.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

I agree that Vanessa would probably win against either in the final 2.

But if it is Liz vs Steve, I am not so sure Steve would win. Liz won a lot of stuff - she had a good game. I think Steve will have the most difficult time winning the game.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

the wins/noms stats are close:

*liz*
hoh: 3
veto: 1
noms: 2

*steve*
hoh: 3
veto: 2
noms: 4

*van*
hoh: 4
veto: 3
noms: 2


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

steve has been rehearsing his speech in case he wins final hoh, and it's not sounding good for van.

on another note, like every year, many discussions about a bitter jury, emotional jury votes, respecting game play, who deserves to win, etc. if this was simply a physical and mental skill competition, the jury wouldn't be needed, just add up the scores from the comps, then announce the winner. but it's not, there's a strong social aspect, and if the jury is more bitter towards one houseguest over another, then to me it sounds as if their social game needed work. [/2cents]


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> steve has been rehearsing his speech in case he wins final hoh, and it's not sounding good for van.
> 
> on another note, like every year, many discussions about a bitter jury, emotional jury votes, respecting game play, who deserves to win, etc. if this was simply a physical and mental skill competition, the jury wouldn't be needed, just add up the scores from the comps, then announce the winner. but it's not, there's a strong social aspect, and if the jury is more bitter towards one houseguest over another, then to me it sounds as if their social game needed work. [/2cents]


I hope he gets to use that speech. It'd be awesome, even better than when Austin got blindsided.


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## angbear1985 (Aug 25, 2006)

If they each win one of the HoH's - then what happens ?


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

angbear1985 said:


> If they each win one of the HoH's - then what happens ?


There's a third HoH contest between the two.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

brianric said:


> There's a third HoH contest between the two.


This. Vanessa won the first part, where all 3 were competing. She immediately jumps to part 3. Steve and Liz had to compete again in part 2. Steve won and moves on to compete against Vanessa in part 3. That will be shown live on Wed.


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

NorthAlabama said:


> on another note, like every year, many discussions about a bitter jury, emotional jury votes, respecting game play, who deserves to win, etc. if this was simply a physical and mental skill competition, the jury wouldn't be needed, just add up the scores from the comps, then announce the winner. but it's not, there's a strong social aspect, and if the jury is more bitter towards one houseguest over another, then to me it sounds as if their social game needed work. [/2cents]


True, but what I don't like are the bitter jury members who were doing their fair share of lying and betraying, but then when it happens to them they are not going to vote for the person who betrayed them (for example, Austin).

If a HG wants to play a 100% honest and loyal game, then I have no problem with them holding someone accountable for lying and betrayal. Its the jury members who are bitter only because someone beat them at their own game that bother me.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

Dnamertz said:


> True, but what I don't like are the bitter jury members who were doing their fair share of lying and betraying, but then when it happens to them they are not going to vote for the person who betrayed them (for example, Austin).
> 
> If a HG wants to play a 100% honest and loyal game, then I have no problem with them holding someone accountable for lying and betrayal. Its the jury members who are bitter only because someone beat them at their own game that bother me.


That's why it's a very social game. You need to lie, cheat, and stab people in the back and have them feel sorry for you having done so.

Rob Mariano (Boston Rob from Survivor) mastered this technique.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Necromancer2006 said:


> That's why it's a very social game. You need to lie, cheat, and stab people in the back and have them feel sorry for you having done so.
> 
> Rob Mariano (Boston Rob from Survivor) mastered this technique.


The classic one with Rob when he asked Lex to protect Amber, only to have Rob stab Lex in the back when the tribes merged.


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

brianric said:


> The classic one with Rob when he asked Lex to protect Amber, only to have Rob stab Lex in the back when the tribes merged.


 how about all stars where rob convinced his angels to do his bidding but then ended up voting them all out. Rob was a master. That season of survivor belongs with Dan and will from BB


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

Necromancer2006 said:


> That's why it's a very social game. You need to lie, cheat, and stab people in the back and have them feel sorry for you having done so.
> 
> Rob Mariano (Boston Rob from Survivor) mastered this technique.


To me it's not about them feeling sorry for you in the end. To me you need to lie, cheat, and stab people in the back and have them be impressed with you for having done so.


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