# LOST - 5/16 - "Greatest Hits" - *spoilers*



## zync (Feb 22, 2003)

Looks like Rose is back


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

"What is with the secrets? Why doesn't anybody talk to anybody?"


Yep. Rose and Bernard are back after being MIA for like 30 days. Just coincidentally, Bernard is a crack shot, which would have helped before now.


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## ChrisNJ (Mar 7, 2007)

Was anyone having video glitches for about the first 10 minutes of the episode? (Philly/South Jersey area)


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## zync (Feb 22, 2003)

ChrisNJ said:


> Was anyone having video glitches for about the first 10 minutes of the episode? (Philly/South Jersey area)


No, but I am getting audio drop outs (Austin)


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## zync (Feb 22, 2003)

Well... that was unexpected.


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

ChrisNJ said:


> Was anyone having video glitches for about the first 10 minutes of the episode? (Philly/South Jersey area)


No, recorded OTA in HD.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

So they found the rig from The Abyss?


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## jdfs (Oct 21, 2002)

Anyone else wondering why they didn't just cut the cable? There is at least a chance it could be supplying it power. Worth trying and then if that didn't work, go inside.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

jdfs said:


> Anyone else wondering why they didn't just cut the cable? There is at least a chance it could be supplying it power. Worth trying and then if that didn't work, go inside.


That's a big gamble: Is the line supplying power? Communications? Both? Without the right tools and protective equipment, they could have injured themselves if the line was powered.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

I know Charlie's not very popular, but I really hope that little twist with the gun-toting chicks means that Desmond's vision was premature, and maybe Charlie will live a lot longer ...

If he does end up sacrificing himself next week, though, I hope all the people who ragged on Charlie will at least recognize that this act redeems him. 

Oh, yeah, before I forget: I still want to smack Jack.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

drew2k said:


> That's a big gamble: Is the line supplying power? Communications? Both? Without the right tools and protective equipment, they could have injured themselves if the line was powered.


Dynamite?

I thought the same thing. Among other things, it could be carrying the jamming signal to an antenna. Blow up the cable and drop the rest of it in the deeper water. Worth a shot.


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## Martha (Oct 6, 2002)

So does Alex = Kate and Carl = Jack (or Sawyer?).


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

jdfs said:


> Anyone else wondering why they didn't just cut the cable? There is at least a chance it could be supplying it power. Worth trying and then if that didn't work, go inside.


That was the one thing I was coming here to ask. How bout using one of those sticks of dynamite and blow up the cable on the beach instead of trying to cut it. Seems easier that way, and I think it's somehwhat obvious that the station was being powered through the cable and not the other way around.


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## Tersanyus (Jun 27, 2004)

scottykempf said:


> So they found the rig from The Abyss?


That's what I was thinking when we saw that station lit up underwater! Now where are those UFO's?


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

Tersanyus said:


> That's what I was thinking when we saw that station lit up underwater! Now where are those UFO's?


And a bare chested Mary Elizabeth Mastrontonio


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Tersanyus said:


> That's what I was thinking when we saw that station lit up underwater! Now where are those UFO's?


Wasn't it NTI's in The Abyss? Non Terrestrial Intelligence. "Hot Rods of the Gods!!"


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

drew2k said:


> I know Charlie's not very popular, but I really hope that little twist with the gun-toting chicks means that Desmond's vision was premature, and maybe Charlie will live a lot longer ...


Oh, I think Desmond's vision was dead-on.

We just didn't see what his vision was, only what he SAID it was.


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## RobertE (Aug 24, 2004)

Even easier. Blow up the looking glass with the dynamite. Use it as a depth charge.


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## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

ChrisNJ said:


> Was anyone having video glitches for about the first 10 minutes of the episode? (Philly/South Jersey area)


Nope. HD broadcast on Comcast went fine for me in Northeast Philly.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

drew2k said:


> If he does end up sacrificing himself next week, though, I hope all the people who ragged on Charlie will at least recognize that this act redeems him.


We actually got to see a few other redeeming Charlie qualities this episode too. He stopped a mugging and didn't his brother say Charlie was a drug-free rockstar? I wonder exactly when that changed.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

I'm man enough to say when an episode moves me.. Charlie making that list caused at least one tear to well up.. Great episode.

(Glad the thread is so short! I never even finished last week's!)


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Not bad but as always the episode before a season finale is a big setup.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Paperboy2003 said:


> And a bare chested Mary Elizabeth Mastrontonio


2 hour season finale next week, starting at 9pm. So the boobs will have to wait until the second hour.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I was thinking the Abyss also. 

And are the women that are there hiding from Ben and company? Maybe they are women that didn't want to die? 

It was an interesting episode and I am looking forward to next weeks!


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## zuko3984 (May 4, 2002)

jdfs said:


> Anyone else wondering why they didn't just cut the cable? There is at least a chance it could be supplying it power. Worth trying and then if that didn't work, go inside.


what happens if the cable is not a power cable but is the cable that is sending the on/off command to whatever is jamming the signal. The control to turn it off may be in the underwater station but the actual jamming device may be deep in the jungle and what if cutting the cable means that there is now no way to turn off the jamming signal. once you cut the cable there is no way to undo that. Just a thought i had.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

When Charlie was shouting "I'm alive!" was I the only one shouting back, "Shut up you sodding fool!"

Yeah okay, probably just me.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

drew2k said:


> That's a big gamble: Is the line supplying power? Communications? Both? Without the right tools and protective equipment, they could have injured themselves if the line was powered.


I agree on it being a gamble; maybe the hatch does other things, and you'd lose those by cutting/blowing the cable.

On the other hand, the current plan has quite a hole in it now as well. If Charlie can turn off the switch, the Others in the Looking Glass can just turn it back on. Deadlock.

Now, if he'd brought some of that dynamite along that would be different ...


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

stalemate said:


> We actually got to see a few other redeeming Charlie qualities this episode too. He stopped a mugging and didn't his brother say Charlie was a drug-free rockstar? I wonder exactly when that changed.


IIRC, it was in the first Charlie flashback episode.


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## JadeWolf07 (Jan 1, 2004)

Did the schematics of the Looking Glass remind anyone else of the city in Walt's comic book from way back in Season 1?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

For some reason, I feel like it might be significant that it was women that inhabit the Looking Glass.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

hefe said:


> For some reason, I feel like it might be significant that it was women that inhabit the Looking Glass.


I was wondering if they might be pregnant. It is, after all, not _on _the island.


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## bqmeister (May 13, 2006)

On the one hand, can't freaking wait till the season finale.

On the other hand - no lost for almost 8 months!!!


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## BriGuy20 (Aug 4, 2005)

GREAT episode. I upgraded Lost back to 3 thumbs up.

Can't wait for the finale.


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

I'm so happy this show has made a complete 180 and come back from the land of suck to the land of rule. It's going to be a long wait to Feb.


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

When did Sayid get a map of The Looking Glass.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Wow, the scene there with Charlie giving Desmond his list was quite touching.

Although I was disappointed that Charlie knocked out Desmond before either had a chance to say "See you in another life, brother."


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Not to be obscure, but I kind of had an Our Man Flint moment myself when Charlie popped up in the station.


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## brott (Feb 23, 2001)

spikedavis said:


> When did Sayid get a map of The Looking Glass.


Wasn't that from the outpost where eye-patch guy was stationed?


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

What's the over-under on one of the Looking Glass' women's names being "Annie?"


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

MacThor said:


> What's the over-under on one of the Looking Glass' women's names being "Annie?"


No bet but I was also wondering if they are part of the original Dharma group.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

I'm not convinced that Desmond actually saw Charlie flip the switch or die by drowning. I think he might have seen something that simply made him want to convince Charlie to go down to the station - i.e, he just manipulated Charlie into going. 

For instance, Desmond might have seen *himself* go down there and face the killer Austin Powers chicks, and decided he'd rather Charlie face them. That might have been why he decided to let Charlie off the hook by going himself - he realized it was his own destiny and not Charlie's. (Which means that Desmond may end up down there to save Charlie after he wakes up - thus fulfilling the very vision that he already saw.)


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

Alex: When did you get back?"

Ben: "Just now."

Alex: "Where's Locke?"

Ben removes gun from pants, tosses it in the air, catches it, leans toward Alex with an "I'm REALLY pissed off" look says: "Here's your gun back."

Alex: Distressed look on her face takes the gun with her bloody hand.

This was a great scene


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## lordargent (Nov 12, 2002)

drew2k said:


> I know Charlie's not very popular


I was hoping charlie would die, a helicopter would land and take claire and the baby away, but not have enough space for the other losties, or something.

/I haven't liked charlie since day 1.


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## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

What was Alex doing to that rabbit? That was pretty disturbing...

Looks like Ben's lost it...


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

MacThor said:


> What's the over-under on one of the Looking Glass' women's names being "Annie?"


Wouldn't the correct name be "Alice"?

It would be nice to have closure with the Annie character as well though. Methinks that'll have to wait till next season.

When did "Isaac" tell Ben that they should go to the survivor's beach and kidnap the Women and kill the men?


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

I thought the same thing about The Abyss. From what the Laserdisc special features said, they never struck the sets so I suppose it would be possible to have used that thing again - assuming it did not rust completely away in the unfinished power plant they built it in.


Anyway. Great episode. I can see Desmonds vision coming true. Obviously there is no water in the station now, but maybe Chralie is able to overpower them somehow and flip whatever switch Desmond was talking about. As a side effect (or maybe as a result of him getting free) , the station fills with water too quickly for him to get out or something. The note was pretty touching.

I like Jack finally coming to terms with leading the group and the rest seem to want it as well, especially with the new glasnost policy in effect. Maybe they will actually start getting things done.


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## BillL (Oct 6, 2004)

Who was the woman that Charlie saved from being mugged? Was that Sayid's old girlfriend?


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

BillL said:


> Who was the woman that Charlie saved from being mugged? Was that Sayid's old girlfriend?


Yes, that was her.


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

They never even considered using the dynamite to blow up the antenna that was broadcasting the jamming signal.


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## jwehman (Feb 26, 2003)

In the high-def caps of the Looking Glass map, the "cable" is labeled as "Anchor to Land" (http://bp1.blogger.com/_8HhjIy50yEY/Rkvf8GnoetI/AAAAAAAAAF0/v0wLo6Qbfls/s1600-h/hd.lg4.JPG) ...so there may be nothing to that cable (power-wise/signal-wise) that would help them "disable" the jamming signal.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Malcontent said:


> They never even considered using the dynamite to blow up the antenna that was broadcasting the jamming signal.


The jamming signal is coming from the Looking Glass. The tower broadcasts Rousseau's distress signal, which can simply be shut down.


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

Charlie just became the luckiest man alive. I mean he's down there in the bunker with two lonely good looking women...


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## crazywater (Mar 7, 2001)

jkeegan said:


> I'm man enough to say when an episode moves me.. Charlie making that list caused at least one tear to well up.. Great episode.
> 
> (Glad the thread is so short! I never even finished last week's!)


I have to agree...they have succeeded in creating an emotional investment in a character that not everyone likes. You could just feel his anxiety and hopelessness in knowing that he may be nearing the end of his life but is still willing to try his hardest to live on (or long enough) to save everyone else...


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

smickola said:


> What was Alex doing to that rabbit? That was pretty disturbing...
> 
> Looks like Ben's lost it...


Skinning it for food.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

jdfs said:


> Anyone else wondering why they didn't just cut the cable? There is at least a chance it could be supplying it power. Worth trying and then if that didn't work, go inside.


I thought that cable was just a tether line.


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## jonblaze (Jan 10, 2004)

The last time Desmond got knocked out, he returned to the island from the "alternate reality." I wonder if Charlie's use of the oar on Desmond will have the opposite effect.


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## bqmeister (May 13, 2006)

Sirius Black said:


> Wouldn't the correct name be "Alice"?
> 
> It would be nice to have closure with the Annie character as well though. Methinks that'll have to wait till next season.
> 
> When did "Isaac" tell Ben that they should go to the survivor's beach and kidnap the Women and kill the men?


You mean jacob.

There's still a lot we don't know about jacob.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

Delta13 said:


> When Charlie was shouting "I'm alive!" was I the only one shouting back, "Shut up you sodding fool!"
> 
> Yeah okay, probably just me.


No, we were right with you. I thought it was a pretty genuine reaction, though.


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## mrpope (Jan 13, 2006)

if the cable is just a tether line, how do you scramble broadcast signals from underwater? not a very practical place for a job like that.


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## Zrealm (Apr 25, 2005)

mrpope said:


> if the cable is just a tether line, how do you scramble broadcast signals from underwater? not a very practical place for a job like that.


On the other hand, if you believed that the island itself was crawling with Hostiles (which Dharma certainly seemed to), it would make sense to have a station off the island that was autonomous.)


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Is that the first time we've learned where the cable leads?

Was the scene on the beach early in the episode the first time all the (still living) original Losties have been together in a long time? Well aside from Locke I guess.

I have to think there was more to Desmond's vision than he was letting on to Charlie, given that we didn't get to see it.

I hope I can avoid spoilers next Thursday and Friday since I'll be in Vegas and will have to watch the finale when I get home.

I realize that Charlie didn't want to worry Claire, but I'm surprised he didn't put the ring in a safer place.


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

Paperboy2003 said:


> That was the one thing I was coming here to ask. How bout using one of those sticks of dynamite and blow up the cable on the beach instead of trying to cut it. Seems easier that way, and I think it's somehwhat obvious that the station was being powered through the cable and not the other way around.


That would make too much sense! Having Charlie risk his life and then meet the models with guns was much more fun.



Delta13 said:


> I agree on it being a gamble; maybe the hatch does other things, and you'd lose those by cutting/blowing the cable.


I thought there was a much larger gamble in following the cable out into the ocean, and then expecting to be able to swim around inside of it and find a magical switch to flip. From the looks of it, Charlie is not a Mrs. Rosen when it comes to swimming despite what he insinuated.



mrpope said:


> if the cable is just a tether line, how do you scramble broadcast signals from underwater? not a very practical place for a job like that.


Good question.


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## mark1278 (Nov 6, 2006)

I also think that Ben has lost it. He looked like he was a mess. Does anyone think that he'll die in the finale? 

Question--the hatch where Charlie is now--is that the same as the underwater hatch that flooded?? I'm confused.

I was surprised that Charlie really didn't say much to Claire. If I thought I was going to die, I'd have probably said more--or written more. 

Also, I really wish that Jack would have told the group more about what he learned from Juliet. 

Other than that, I enjoyed the episode. I hope that we get a lot of answers in the finale. I really want to know what happened to Annie.

Just want to say, I really love all of the comments that everyone makes on this thread. I love reading opinions about the show.  Does anyone know if there are any other threads out there as good as this one that I can read?


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

mark1278 said:


> I also think that Ben has lost it. He looked like he was a mess. Does anyone think that he'll die in the finale?
> 
> Question--the hatch where Charlie is now--is that the same as the underwater hatch that flooded?? I'm confused.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I don't think they left any doubt that the "hatch" he's in is the one that was said to be flooded.

I don't think he wanted to worry her.

What more do you think he learned from Juliet?

There are definitely other Lost message boards. This is the best one though.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

I loved the return of Rose and Bernard! I'm also glad they haven't overused them, just pull them back in when it counts.

I also have to say that I was very happy with the fact that when we started out there was "A Plan!" and when Karl comes over and things change, they shift into high gear moving things up, we still believe they can pull it off, and then by the end of the episode, it's clear things are going wrong everywhere. Just like life, sometimes plans go horribly horribly wrong..

Charlie's list, it just got weepy every time, especially when you added in Claire *sniff* if there was any question, this was redemption for Charlie, being willing to give up his chance to survive for Claire and turnip head.

Add me in to the "next Wednesday just can't come fast enough" camp.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Some thoughts:



jdfs said:


> Anyone else wondering why they didn't just cut the cable? There is at least a chance it could be supplying it power. Worth trying and then if that didn't work, go inside.


1. This bothered me as I was watching, too, but the explanations offered on this thread have mollified me - thanks. I'm still surprised none of the Losties suggested it, though.

2. Charlie saying goodbye to Hurley = I teared up a little.

3. Good to see Rose and Bernard again, but it certainly seems like they are foreshadowing that Bernard will be a casualty. I wonder if the darker shirt Rose brings back to him is, in fact, a red shirt?



spikedavis said:


> When did Sayid get a map of The Looking Glass.


4. I didn't remember Sayid grabbing a manual from The Flame, but I agree that's where it must have come from. Another Alice in Wonderland reference, harkening back to "White Rabbit." I'm surprised the blueprint called it the "Looking Glass Hatch" instead of the "Looking Glass Station"



BillL said:


> Who was the woman that Charlie saved from being mugged? Was that Sayid's old girlfriend?


5. Yep. Nadia makes another appearance. Does she cross more characters backstories than most other people, or does it just seem that way?

6. The first time they showed Karl running and launching the boat, and we didn't get a good look at him, I thought it could be Boone.

7. Hm... Charlie, and a plot prominently featuring a ring. Why do I have deja vu?

8. I wonder how the Looking Glass gets reprovisioned?

9. So they were stripping wires from the plane wreckage - good idea. But wasn't the bulk of the wreckage washed away when the tide came in a few seasons ago?

Great episode! I'm really looking forward to the finale next week. Also looking forward to seeing Damon and Carlton on the Thursday "Answers" show. I enjoy listening to their podcast; I hope they take the same laid-back and comical approach with this.


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## MasterCephus (Jan 3, 2005)

What other episodes has Nadia crept up on?

That scene where Charlie saved her, right before that, wasn't that the same scene a couple of episodes ago with Desmond and Charlie. I can't remember, but I think I remember Charlie singing that same song and then it start raining...


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

So I'm wondering if inside the Looking Glass station is some kind of portal between the real world and the alternate world that the show takes place in. This would fit with the name of the station, as a reference to Lewis Carroll's Through the Looking Glass. It would explain why a sub was needed (or at least the preferred way) to leave the island - get in the sub, go down to the Looking Glass station, go through the portal.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

MasterCephus said:


> What other episodes has Nadia crept up on?
> 
> That scene where Charlie saved her, right before that, wasn't that the same scene a couple of episodes ago with Desmond and Charlie. I can't remember, but I think I remember Charlie singing that same song and then it start raining...


She was in an episode where Locke was working as a home inspector. I think she was buying a house that he was inspecting, or something like that.

I recognized her that time, but not last night. Guess it was the wet hair.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I think the Looking Glass is a place for the women to go and hide. The ones that don't want to get pregnant and don't want to die. 
Not sure how long they have been there....or if they visit the island...maybe they control the smoke monster....but they are there without Ben knowing about it.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Isn't the cable thick braided metal wire, as opposed to a solid rubber-type insulated cable? If so, I get the impression that it's not a power line.


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

ChrisNJ said:


> Was anyone having video glitches for about the first 10 minutes of the episode? (Philly/South Jersey area)


I did notice a small glitch that you would miss if you blinked, but I'm in the NY, north Jersey area. Actually, the Directv signal was better than usual. Not once did the screen go half green for a few seconds as it has been doing on ABC-HD 86.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

MasterCephus said:


> What other episodes has Nadia crept up on?
> 
> That scene where Charlie saved her, right before that, wasn't that the same scene a couple of episodes ago with Desmond and Charlie. I can't remember, but I think I remember Charlie singing that same song and then it start raining...


Yes - the same scene. I think it was right around Desmond's confrontation with Penny's dad. As he was leaving he passed by Charlie playing the song. Or something like that.

Nadia has been in:

- Greatest Hits
- Lockdown 
- Exodus: Part 2 
- The Greater Good 
- Numbers 
- Walkabout 
- Solitary

I'm not counting that Mikhail's cat is named Nadia...


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

danterner said:


> Yes - the same scene. I think it was right around Desmond's confrontation with Penny's dad. As he was leaving he passed by Charlie playing the song. Or something like that.


Good catch. I remembered seeing Charlie singing on the street before but I couldn't remember when. Nadia said that three other people passed and did nothing to help. Maybe one of them was Desmond.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

I think it was the same song, but not the same scene. But if someone has screencaps of it or something, that would be helpful. It just didn't look like the same place, and we know from his note that he was in front of Covent Gardens.

What's with all the Charlie hate though and him redeeming himself and such. Sure he hasn't been perfect, but why does he have to keep redeeming himself. This guy was willing to risk his life to protect Claire when Ethan kidnapped her. He risked his life to save Jack when the cave colapsed on him. Yes, he was a heroin addict and because everyone turned on him last season he did something he regreted...but he appoligized to Sun for hurting her. But yet this guy is still in need of redemption. And look at Sawyer. This guy has treated the Losties like crap, hording everything he possibly could, stealing the guns and keeping them for himself, yet he was still nominated to be the groups leader while Jack was gone. It doesn't make sense to me. I just don't understand all the Charlie hate.


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## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

danplaysbass said:


> Charlie just became the luckiest man alive. I mean he's down there in the bunker with two lonely good looking women...


Time to start that 'repopulate the Earth' project...


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

danterner said:


> Some thoughts:
> 
> 6. The first time they showed Karl running and launching the boat, and we didn't get a good look at him, I thought it could be Boone.


I did! And it freaked me out!

Can someone remind me who Annie (who some think may be one of the women underwater) is?


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

cwoody222 said:


> Can someone remind me who Annie (who some think may be one of the women underwater) is?


The little girl that young Ben met when he got to the island. She told him they could have all the apolo bars they wanted and gave Ben the wooden doll birthday present


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## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

I presume the Looking Glass is reprovisioned via the submarine; the moon pool that Charlie surfaced through was indicated as being a submarine dock in the plans Sayid had. (It's been, what, a week since the sub was destroyed? Do the people in the Looking Glass know about that?)

So, was Juliet lying when she said the Looking Glass was flooded or did Ben lie to her when he told her it was flooded?

Obviously the plan to take the women is Ben's plan, not Jacob's, right? Maybe that's more of why Ben shot Locke; what Ben has been ordering the Others to do is different from what Jacob is really ordering and, since he could also hear Jacob, Locke would have been able to expose Ben's deception.

Did anyone besides me find Naomi's exchange with Charlie a bit odd? She's telling him how they had a big memorial service for him and that they released a new "Greatest Hits" album. For Driveshaft, wouldn't that be more like a greatest single? I'm starting to be suspicious of Naomi for some reason; something doesn't seem right about her all of a sudden.

Edited to add: apparently the two women in the station are credited as "Bonnie" and "Greta".


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## MasterCephus (Jan 3, 2005)

> I think the Looking Glass is a place for the women to go and hide. The ones that don't want to get pregnant and don't want to die.


Well they have to be able to get food and water ("water water everywhere, not a drop to drink") if they are hiding underwater...


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

tanstaafl said:


> Did anyone besides me find Naomi's exchange with Charlie a bit odd? She's telling him how they had a big memorial service for him and that they released a new "Greatest Hits" album. For Driveshaft, wouldn't that be more like a greatest single? I'm starting to be suspicious of Naomi for some reason; something doesn't seem right about her all of a sudden.
> 
> Edited to add: apparently the two women in the station are credited as "Bonnie" and "Greta".


I thought the same thing about the 'greatest hits' album. I said "what? a one song album?". Maybe some other celebrity singers got together and all sang "You all everybody" as a memorial and such. 

Thanks for the catch on the station girls names.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

betts4 said:


> I thought the same thing about the 'greatest hits' album. I said "what? a one song album?". Maybe some other celebrity singers got together and all sang "You all everybody" as a memorial and such.
> 
> Thanks for the catch on the station girls names.


They probably had other songs, but You All Everybody was what they were known for. But my thoughts on that conversation was more like, how could they pronounce him dead and have DriveShaft make a comeback all within the 3 months they've been there. That seems pretty fast to me.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

MasterCephus said:


> Well they have to be able to get food and water ("water water everywhere, not a drop to drink") if they are hiding underwater...


'Seaquest DSV'

They could have gear and come up to the surface for food and water occasionally. Sort of a Danielle type of life.

But I think there is much more to them than even we think. If Ben thinks the place is flooded...maybe its a place for the Losties to go hide.


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## pcguru83 (Jan 18, 2005)

Did anyone catch that promo for the recap show that the producers Damon and Carlton are going to be doing? When's that coming on?


----------



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

unicorngoddess said:


> They probably had other songs, but You All Everybody was what they were known for. But my thoughts on that conversation was more like, how could they pronounce him dead and have DriveShaft make a comeback all within the 3 months they've been there. That seems pretty fast to me.


The 3 month thing bothered me. Moreso until Jack mentioned "90 days" since I didn't think it'd been that long.

I guess she could have been exaggerating. Their "comeback" could have meant a few weeks of touring the morning talk shows 

And a Greatest Hits album could have been a tribute-type thing.


----------



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

pcguru83 said:


> Did anyone catch that promo for the recap show that the producers Damon and Carlton are going to be doing? When's that coming on?


Tonight at 10:15pm after the Grey's Anatomy finale.


----------



## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

unicorngoddess said:


> [...]And look at Sawyer. This guy has treated the Losties like crap, hording everything he possibly could, stealing the guns and keeping them for himself, yet he was still nominated to be the groups leader while Jack was gone. It doesn't make sense to me. I just don't understand all the Charlie hate.


The nomination for group leader was a con put on by Hurley to integrate Sawyer into the group dynamic.


----------



## pcguru83 (Jan 18, 2005)

cwoody222 said:


> Tonight at 10:15pm after the Grey's Anatomy finale.


Cool, thanks.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

MasterCephus said:


> What other episodes has Nadia crept up on?
> 
> That scene where Charlie saved her, right before that, wasn't that the same scene a couple of episodes ago with Desmond and Charlie. I can't remember, but I think I remember Charlie singing that same song and then it start raining...


Do you mean Nadia or Naomi?


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Mike Farrington said:


> The nomination for group leader was a con put on by Hurley to integrate Sawyer into the group dynamic.


The kicking him out of the tribe was a con. That's why he was forcing Sawyer to be nice to people. But still, everyone's more accepting of Sawyer even after everything he has done...but people are still hating on Charlie and he hasn't been nearly as bad. Charlie's always been one of my favorites though.


----------



## murrays (Oct 19, 2004)

mqpickles said:


> I was wondering if they might be pregnant. It is, after all, not _on _the island.


Well, they may not be pregnant, but they have Charlie now 

-murray


----------



## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

cwoody222 said:


> Tonight at 10:15pm after the Grey's Anatomy finale.


And again next week, before the finale, according to my TiVo.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

unicorngoddess said:


> ...but people are still hating on Charlie and he hasn't been nearly as bad. Charlie's always been one of my favorites though.


People (like me) haven't been hating on him for being a bad person. It's not personal that way. A bad _person _can be a good _character_. I haven't liked him as a character because of his whiny and irrational behavior. I've found it annoying. Sawyer is a worse person, but a better character.


----------



## jwehman (Feb 26, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> I think it was the same song, but not the same scene. But if someone has screencaps of it or something, that would be helpful. It just didn't look like the same place, and we know from his note that he was in front of Covent Gardens.


Two different scenes, according to lost eastereggs:

http://bp2.blogger.com/_E5sM9VbOiKc...o/14FAlAcNKGk/s1600-h/1_16_05_07_11_36_09.jpg


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

jeff125va said:


> I realize that Charlie didn't want to worry Claire, but I'm surprised he didn't put the ring in a safer place.


Yeah, like someplace where the baby couldn't get it and choke on it? I know it's just a TV show, but that really bugged me. And I just knew he was going to do it!


----------



## acej80 (Jan 19, 2003)

I found the story with Charlie and the ring interesting, especially there was many previous scenes with Charlie fidgeting or tapping his rings. Does anyone know if he has worn the "DS" ring since the first season?


----------



## pcguru83 (Jan 18, 2005)

http://bp2.blogger.com/_8HhjIy50yEY/RkvKsWnoemI/AAAAAAAAAE8/vl7eCBkfq1s/s1600-h/girl.JPG

Is this Colleen? I think that's her name...the girl that was with the Tailies on their trek over to the Beach.

If not, sure does favor her.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

jwehman said:


> Two different scenes, according to lost eastereggs:
> 
> http://bp2.blogger.com/_E5sM9VbOiKc...o/14FAlAcNKGk/s1600-h/1_16_05_07_11_36_09.jpg


If we could zoom in on that tube stop from Flashes Before Your Eyes, we'd know for sure where the Desmond/Charlie scene took place. He's wearing different clothes so I wonder if he just sits outside the same tube stop playing the same song every day


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

acej80 said:


> I found the story with Charlie and the ring interesting, especially there was many previous scenes with Charlie fidgeting or tapping his rings. Does anyone know if he has worn the "DS" ring since the first season?


Yes he has.


----------



## lpamelaa (May 3, 2004)

danplaysbass said:


> Charlie just became the luckiest man alive. I mean he's down there in the bunker with two lonely good looking women...


It just occurred to me that this could mimic the rockstar scene with Charlie in bed with "the two birds from Row Two."


----------



## acej80 (Jan 19, 2003)

pcguru83 said:


> http://bp2.blogger.com/_8HhjIy50yEY/RkvKsWnoemI/AAAAAAAAAE8/vl7eCBkfq1s/s1600-h/girl.JPG
> 
> Is this Colleen? I think that's her name...the girl that was with the Tailies on their Trek over to the Beach.
> 
> If not, sure does favor her.


I'm pretty certain not. Colleen? was in the camp with the others. She was talking with Locke in one of the previous two episodes (sorry too lazy  to look up the names, or recall exactly which episode it was)


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Jstkiddn said:


> Yeah, like someplace where the baby couldn't get it and choke on it? I know it's just a TV show, but that really bugged me. And I just knew he was going to do it!


Yeah, hadn't even thought of that. I was thinking more of a bunch of dynamite going off nearby, but that too. I guess the list would maybe give her some idea of its significance, but I'd think he'd have told her the story too if it were that important.

I also wonder why he didn't give it back to his brother when he was in Australia and had gotten his life together and had a kid and stuff. Maybe because Charlie's own life was in such disarray? Seems to me that this is one of those plot elements they hadn't actually thought out from the beginning.


----------



## pcguru83 (Jan 18, 2005)

acej80 said:


> I'm pretty certain not. Colleen? was in the camp with the others. She was talking with Locke in one of the previous two episodes (sorry too lazy  to look up the names, or recall exactly which episode it was)


Yeah, I thought the same--we did see her in the camp with the Others just a few episodes ago.

It's a striking similarity though...


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

I'm really liking how they are doing the 6 hours ago thing in this ep and in the past few they have done similar things


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Greatest Hits albums don't take that long to release. Every track's already recorded.

Even one-hit-wonders release greatest hits albums.

That being said, I still think Naomi's full of it.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Nitpick/question:

In season one, when that woman drowned out at sea (Joanna?) wasn't a point made that Charlie couldn't dive into the sea to try to save her _because he couldn't swim_? More recently, when he tried to save Claire from drowning he died in the attempt (and so had to be "saved" by Desmond proactively rescuing Claire instead). Now we have a flashback episode showing him learning to swim as a child, and doing quite well underwater at the Looking Glass?


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

danterner said:


> Nitpick/question:
> 
> In season one, when that woman drowned out at sea (Joanna?) wasn't a point made that Charlie couldn't dive into the sea to try to save her _because he couldn't swim_? More recently, when he tried to save Claire from drowning he died in the attempt (and so had to be "saved" by Desmond proactively rescuing Claire instead). Now we have a flashback episode showing him learning to swim as a child, and doing quite well underwater at the Looking Glass?


Good catch. I suppose Charlie was lying back then. Perhaps didn't want to risk his own life at the time.



Season 1 episode 5 said:


> CHARLIE [off camera]:Jack, Jack.
> 
> [Shot of Jack on the beach laying down, but looking out to sea.]
> 
> ...


----------



## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

Am I the only one that gets a young Matthew Brodderick vibe from Karl? I mean, the facial structure is pretty similar, and the voice seems similar too. In this episode I kept looking at him thinking he reminded me of the kid in Wargames, took my wife to remind me who that was.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

hefe said:


> Good catch. I suppose Charlie was lying back then. Perhaps didn't want to risk his own life at the time.


I can buy that - it would really tie nicely into his redemption: comparing an earlier refusal to save Joanna to a present willingness to sacrifice his life to save Claire (and presumably everyone else, by bringing about the rescue). If it was intentional on the writers' part, my hat is off to them for creating and following through on a nice long character arc.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Good catch on the Charlie swimming deal. Probably he made up the part about being a on the swim team last night just to be able go. But it was in his memories so wtf....

Now how about Guns. It seemed like they only had 1 or 2 guns left, Jack clearly said "We'll need another gun".
So what happened to all the guns? there had to have been at least 2 dozen in the hatch when they found it, plus the 5 from the marshell's case.

They did have to hand some over to the Others, but it certainly wasn't 2 dozen. Wasn't it just 5 or 6 in The Hunting Party and I'm assuming another several when Kate/Jack/Saywer were kidnapped.

Which means they should have about a dozen left, shouldn't they? Unless they had been put back in the hatch before it exploded? Where did they go? What am I missing/forgetting?

One other random thought.

Juliette was supposed to mark the tents the night the Others were coming, let's call it tuesday night for sake of argument. The Others decide to move up the raid and come on Monday night.
Obviously Karl told the Losties, so they can be ready early.

But if Ben and company arrive on Monday night and see the tents already marked, wouldn't that make them suspicious that the Losties know they were coming early?


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

gschrock said:


> Am I the only one that gets a young Matthew Brodderick vibe from Karl? I mean, the facial structure is pretty similar, and the voice seems similar too. In this episode I kept looking at him thinking he reminded me of the kid in Wargames, took my wife to remind me who that was.


Yeah, there was definitely a sense of familiarity while I was watching.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

danterner said:


> I can buy that - it would really tie nicely into his redemption: comparing an earlier refusal to save Joanna to a present willingness to sacrifice his life to save Claire (and presumably everyone else, by bringing about the rescue). If it was intentional on the writers' part, my hat is off to them for creating and following through on a nice long character arc.


I think back in season one it wasn't done with any intention of Charley not being able or wanting to swim, but to make Jack more of a Hero.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

MikeMar said:


> I think back in season one it wasn't done with any intention of Charley not being able or wanting to swim, but to make Jack more of a Hero.


Well in that case I'm putting my hat back on.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

danterner said:


> Well in that case I'm putting my hat back on.


it's just my guess as the first 2 seasons were Jack as hero status


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

betts4 said:


> Now how about Guns. It seemed like they only had 1 or 2 guns left, Jack clearly said "We'll need another gun".


Interesting, I took that to be Jack saying 'We need another gun" as in "we need another shooter' " ala a "hired gun"

It never crossed my mind that he needed another physical firearm, but that's just me and my frequently different take on the turn of phrase.

Diane


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

this screencap shows that the plans call out the cable as an 'anchor'; so I don't think just cutting or blowing up the cable would stop the jamming.

[rant]I hate Juliet, and I hate that Jack is under her spell; I mean has she given him the full story yet? It seems like there is always something she just forgot to mention; "Oh, yeah, BTW, we're jamming all transmissions off the island; I forgot to mention that when I told you my full story and everything I know about the island - oh, wait, that's right I only tell you a little bit at a time as I see fit..." B**ch! I don't like Kate either, but I so wanted her to kick Juliet's ass when Juliet gave her that sideways look when Kate was talking to Jack. But then, Juliet beat her down when they were holding Kate prisoner - which reminds me how does Juliet become some bad-ass fighter? I mean Kate has a long history of handing out beat-downs, but Juliet did not seem like the fighter type before they got to the island; do they have mixed martial art training between book-clubs? I don't like her. I hope she dies.[/rant]


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

tanstaafl said:


> Edited to add: apparently the two women in the station are credited as "Bonnie" and "Greta".


I guess I didn't get a great look at them and didn't realize who the actresses were, but given that they're sorta famous - Tracy Middendorf and Lana Parilla - they must be more than just bit parts. I can only assume we'll see more of them. Probably not a-la Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio, unfortunately.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

hefe said:


> Good catch. I suppose Charlie was lying back then. Perhaps didn't want to risk his own life at the time.


Or maybe he was just to high at the time to be swimming out in the ocean.


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

If you re-watch the scene when Charlie claims to have been a great swimmer, Juliette and Jack give each other a look - Juliette especially - that he's full of it. I'm sure she knows from his dossier whether it's true or not.

Another coincidence/irony that the last episode that mentioned Charlie's swimming abilities was titled "White Rabbit" and now he swam to the Looking Glass, and next week he's "Through the Looking Glass?"


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

MacThor said:


> If you re-watch the scene when Charlie claims to have been a great swimmer, Juliette and Jack give each other a look - Juliette especially - that he's full of it. I'm sure she knows from his dossier whether it's true or not.
> 
> Another coincidence/irony that the last episode that mentioned Charlie's swimming abilities was titled "White Rabbit" and now he swam to the Looking Glass, and next week he's "Through the Looking Glass?"


I'd have to re-watch it, but I don't know how they'd know for sure that it WASN'T true (it's not like it would have a comprhensive list of everything he'd never done). He said something about having been a champion or something, right? I'd think that if he had learning to swim in his top 5 list, then it was more significant than just having acquired the skill like most people do. I realize it could have just been a bonding thing with his dad, but I think it's more likely that they realized he was telling the truth about it. After all, Jack did go back and ask Charlie to do it.

I'll have to re-watch "White Rabbit", too, in light of this (and whatever else we might find out about it next week confirming or denying his swimming prowess). After all, it wasn't just a matter of going out for a leisurely swim, even a strong swimmer might have been frightened to go save someone in a current that's obviously pretty strong.


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

The dossiers are extremely thorough. They know that Sawyer killed a man, and they know why he took the name, and presumably knew that Robert Patrick conned him into killing the wrong man.


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm probably forgetting something, but where was Sawyer this week? He'd be one of my top choices for the sniper squad.


----------



## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

wmcbrine said:


> I'm probably forgetting something, but where was Sawyer this week? He'd be one of my top choices for the sniper squad.


Being a con man and occasionally wielding a gun (do we even know if he ever used a gun before the island) does not make you a marksman. They need to hit a small target from a distance, not just kill someone up close.

But yeah, he must have been on vacation that week.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Uhhhhh, Sawyer was the one who stopped the Losties from pummeling Karl first and sarcastically thanked him for telling them what they already knew.


----------



## TiMo Tim (Jul 20, 2001)

latrobe7 said:


> this screencap shows that the plans call out the cable as an 'anchor'; so I don't think just cutting or blowing up the cable would stop the jamming.
> 
> [rant]I hate Juliet <snip> I don't like her. I hope she dies.[/rant]


Interesting pics there... one (2nd from bottom) looks like some external tank(s) of some kind separate from the station.

In the bottom pic, is she standing in the light just for the camera's benefit? 

Could a 1-2" cable really secure a structure of that mass? It looks pretty well secured to its footings.

Any significance to the term "Hatch" (vs. "Station") on the diagram? That would imply there's something on the "other side" (as someone mentioned earlier re: a portal).

Re: Juliet, I was surprised to see her acting so nice in _The Santa Clause_ movies.


----------



## Martha (Oct 6, 2002)

This show reminds me so much of the game Myst.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

tanstaafl said:


> Edited to add: apparently the two women in the station are credited as "Bonnie" and "Greta".


They could have called them "Bambi" and "Thumper".


----------



## mib66 (Jan 6, 2005)

Am I crazy? During the scene where Lil' Charlie learned to swim with his dad, anyone else hear a child's voice in the background yell "come on, Desmond"? I'll have to watch it again, but I remember it happened before he jumped into the water. 
Significant or coincidence?


----------



## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

JYoung said:


> Uhhhhh, Sawyer was the one who stopped the Losties from pummeling Karl first and sarcastically thanked him for telling them what they already knew.


Oh yeah


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

MacThor said:


> The dossiers are extremely thorough. They know that Sawyer killed a man, and they know why he took the name, and presumably knew that Robert Patrick conned him into killing the wrong man.


Knowing about something that *did* happen, as significant as killing someone, is one thing. How could they definitely know everything he *didn't* do, particularly something far less significant, simply because they didn't find out about it?


----------



## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

What's with the hole in the white rabbit logo? Foreshadowing Ben's treatment of bunnies? And the logo on the outside of the station doesn't seem to match (no hole).


----------



## kdelande (Dec 17, 2001)

mib66 said:


> Am I crazy? During the scene where Lil' Charlie learned to swim with his dad, anyone else hear a child's voice in the background yell "come on, Desmond"? I'll have to watch it again, but I remember it happened before he jumped into the water.
> Significant or coincidence?


Huh? Did I doze off at some point? I don't remember a scene like that at all...

KD


----------



## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

mib66 said:


> Am I crazy? During the scene where Lil' Charlie learned to swim with his dad, anyone else hear a child's voice in the background yell "come on, Desmond"? I'll have to watch it again, but I remember it happened before he jumped into the water.
> Significant or coincidence?


I'd say it was coincidence but then, this show has a tendency to make every single thing mean something. Except those dang numbers. They mean very little on the actual show.


----------



## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

TiMo Tim said:


> Could a 1-2" cable really secure a structure of that mass? It looks pretty well secured to its footings.


That's true...hmm... And on the plans, the cable looks much thicker...



brianp6621 said:


> What's with the hole in the white rabbit logo? Foreshadowing Ben's treatment of bunnies? And the logo on the outside of the station doesn't seem to match (no hole).


I thought the hole was just another allusion to Alice (chapter 1 of 'Alice in Wonderland' - _Down the Rabbit Hole_) Good catch on the logo without a hole; what is that supposed to mean...?


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

mib66 said:


> Am I crazy?


Not about this, at least.


mib66 said:


> anyone else hear a child's voice in the background yell "come on, Desmond"?


I heard it, too. Certainly not coincidence.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

kdelande said:


> Huh? Did I doze off at some point? I don't remember a scene like that at all...
> 
> KD


Um... unless you just mean the "come on, Desmond" part, you must have dozed off. It was about 15 minutes into the episode, right after it came back from commercial.

I didn't catch that particular line, but I'd say no coincidence.


----------



## kimsan (Jan 23, 2002)

mib66 said:


> Am I crazy? During the scene where Lil' Charlie learned to swim with his dad, anyone else hear a child's voice in the background yell "come on, Desmond"? I'll have to watch it again, but I remember it happened before he jumped into the water.
> Significant or coincidence?


Could be Edmund but likely *is* Desmond. Just because they could 

If you turn on CC you'll see the child's comments EXCEPT for the name.

Personally, I heard GAUNT.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

betts4 said:


> One other random thought.
> 
> Juliette was supposed to mark the tents the night the Others were coming, let's call it tuesday night for sake of argument. The Others decide to move up the raid and come on Monday night.
> Obviously Karl told the Losties, so they can be ready early.
> ...


Richard asked (paraphrasing) "What if Juliet hasn't completed her part yet?", and Ben replied "Then we'll take all of their women then!"

So she was supposed to mark as she went along, not just mark them all the night before. I don't think it's a problem.

About Sawyer being a 3rd gun, well let's not forget he couldn't hit the broad side of a Marshal in Season 1. (okay, he DID hit him, but still ... )


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

TiMo Tim said:


> ...Could a 1-2" cable really secure a structure of that mass? It looks pretty well secured to its footings.
> 
> Any significance to the term "Hatch" (vs. "Station") on the diagram? That would imply there's something on the "other side" (as someone mentioned earlier re: a portal).


I had a similar point earlier in the thread. I wonder if it's just there to help them find their way out there.

I don't remember the diagram that well, so I hope I understand your question. There's been discussion all the way back to early in the second season about the word "hatch." Locke had referred to the door as the "hatch" until they blew it off, but once they got inside, he and others kept referring to the entire bunker as "the hatch." Normally, a hatch simply refers to a door. So if the diagram said "station" and the Losties said "hatch" I think that's just basically the same (mis)use of the word.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Delta13 said:


> Richard asked (paraphrasing) "What if Juliet hasn't completed her part yet?", and Ben replied "Then we'll take all of their women then!"
> 
> So she was supposed to mark as she went along, not just mark them all the night before. I don't think it's a problem.
> 
> About Sawyer being a 3rd gun, well let's not forget he couldn't hit the broad side of a Marshal in Season 1. (okay, he DID hit him, but still ... )


I agree. I had the same thought during the show, but once Ben said that I think he clearly expected that she *might* have had them marked anyway.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

jeff125va said:


> Knowing about something that *did* happen, as significant as killing someone, is one thing. How could they definitely know everything he *didn't* do, particularly something far less significant, simply because they didn't find out about it?


Well, I'm sure the dossier wouldn't say, "Charlie Pace is not a champion swimmer." But the dossiers are pretty thorough (Locke said they included high school transcripts), so I think some inference can be made from what's not there.

As far as Charlie learning to swim, I was just sure his dad was going to pull a Lucy in that scene and not catch Charlie. They certainly have us programmed to see a dad and assume murderer or drunken pr**k.


----------



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

I didn't think they were talking about Juliet actually placing the stones... marking them.

I think they meant the bigger picture that Juliet hadn't yet completed figuring out who was pregnant or not.


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

JYoung said:


> Uhhhhh, Sawyer was the one who stopped the Losties from pummeling Karl first and sarcastically thanked him for telling them what they already knew.


D'oh! Yes.



brianp6621 said:


> Being a con man and occasionally wielding a gun (do we even know if he ever used a gun before the island)


He killed a guy in Australia... wasn't that with a gun?



> _does not make you a marksman. They need to hit a small target from a distance, not just kill someone up close._


True. But I guess I was thinking more of his willingness to kill (potentially large numbers), and how he's often been in these kinds of groups before on the island.

Of course, we still don't really know most of the Losties (!), so we don't know what skills are available.


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Lee L said:


> Anyway. Great episode. I can see Desmonds vision coming true. Obviously there is no water in the station now, *but maybe Chralie is able to overpower them somehow* and flip whatever switch Desmond was talking about. As a side effect (or maybe as a result of him getting free) , the station fills with water too quickly for him to get out or something. The note was pretty touching.


They DID show him doing just that in one of the flashbacks, so there's hope! 

Doesn't anybody see the irony with the ring? He was chosen to protect THE RING, but then he decided he won't keep it for himself, he will only guard it, etc. etc. (ETA: OK, one other person did)

Oh, so the spoiler guy was 100% correct. I kinda wish I could forget everything I read about the finale now.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

tanstaafl said:


> I presume the Looking Glass is reprovisioned via the submarine; the moon pool that Charlie surfaced through was indicated as being a submarine dock in the plans Sayid had. (It's been, what, a week since the sub was destroyed? Do the people in the Looking Glass know about that?)
> 
> <snip>


I was coming here to post this. Have those women been stranded since the sub was possibly destroyed by Locke?



dianebrat said:


> Interesting, I took that to be Jack saying 'We need another gun" as in "we need another shooter' " ala a "hired gun"
> 
> It never crossed my mind that he needed another physical firearm, but that's just me and my frequently different take on the turn of phrase.
> 
> Diane


Except that when Jack said they needed three guns, Karl & Rousso both offered up their guns. Jack says to Rousso "We'll take yours but you aren't staying"

As for the cable possibly anchoring the "Looking Glass" station, that would only keep it from floating away. What is keeping it from floating towards land?

Also, I read some VERY DETAILED spoilers on another site that sum up the final two episodes of the season. No, I am not giving any details with my following comments but I will tag it anyway.



Spoiler



Some of the comments posted after the spoilers are suggesting that they are actually foilers (fake spoilers) to throw people off. However, after last night's episode, the were DEAD ON. Correct with every detail. I assume that they will be correct about the last episode too.


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

markz said:


> As for the cable possibly anchoring the "Looking Glass" station, that would only keep it from floating away. What is keeping it from floating towards land?


Opposite magnetic polarity, of course!


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Anyone else think they are setting up for Ben to get knocked off and Richard to take over the Others? I think Richard is just trying to figure out a way to have a coup. First he helps out Juliette then Locke. I think he will help out the Losties in killing Ben, then pretend to be friends while secretly plotting against the Losties


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> Anyone else think they are setting up for Ben to get knocked off and Richard to take over the Others? I think Richard is just trying to figure out a way to have a coup. First he helps out Juliette then Locke. I think he will help out the Losties in killing Ben, then pretend to be friends while secretly plotting against the Losties





Spoiler



Maybe, but Nestor Carbonell is in the cast of a new show on CBS next fall. So, unless he's able to do both (after all, Lost won't be back until Feb '08) I don't know how big Richard will be....but it's unlikely he'll move up to the regular cast from recurring guest star.


----------



## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Oh, so the spoiler guy was 100% correct. I kinda wish I could forget everything I read about the finale now.





markz said:


> Also, I read some VERY DETAILED spoilers on another site that sum up the final two episodes of the season. No, I am not giving any details with my following comments but I will tag it anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep, he was dead on. But even though it was clear early on the spoilers were right, I still was believing for a second that Desmond was going to go in for Charlie.


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

Another Inconsistency? Charlie should've given the ring back when he saw his brother in Australia. Liam was clean and sober with a family, while Charlie was still using.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

I think technically speaking that would be a spoiler, MacThor.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

MacThor said:


> Lost won't be back until Feb '08


February? I thought it was January. Arrgh.

But if they're doing 16 weeks straight, that makes sense. February, March, April, May.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

Bananfish said:


> I think technically speaking that would be a spoiler, MacThor.


I felt the same way. Not an outrageous revelation, but something I didn't want have since it now influences my ideas about what might happen.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Well, I fixed it, although because it was pure speculation I don't see how it's a spoiler.

I mean, it's right there in the


Spoiler



upfronts


 but after finding out I had still have no idea what will happen with the


Spoiler



character


.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Steveknj said:


> Anyone else think they are setting up for Ben to get knocked off and Richard to take over the Others? I think Richard is just trying to figure out a way to have a coup. First he helps out Juliette then Locke. I think he will help out the Losties in killing Ben, then pretend to be friends while secretly plotting against the Losties


Another question is, why did Richard ever let young Ben take over in the first place? We don't know if Richard was a leader in the old days, but he clearly has seniority over Ben.

My theory is that Ben was chosen by Jacob, but then turned power crazy and somehow relegated Jacob to the cabin and kept him from being able to leave or talk to anyone else. (Maybe something to do with the circle around the cabin)

I don't remember anyone mentioning Locke--maybe I missed it. Assuming they wouldn't be so stupid as to kill off Locke, and since it looks like the Others didn't save him and the Losties didn't save him, I think Jacob must have saved him somehow. (maybe Locke secretly opened the circle as he left the cabin)

So I picture everyone getting ready for the big fight, and then Locke walks in--maybe with Jacob--and all the Others immediately stop following Ben and do whatever Locke says.

Or maybe Locke is dead as a doornail and we'll never see him again.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

stellie93 said:


> Or maybe Locke is dead as a doornail and we'll never see him again.


My theory is, Locke isn't dead until the island says he's dead.

And the island wants Locke alive.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

Is there any doubt that, in the end, Alex will be the one to kill Ben? Or does that not count as killing your father?


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## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

stellie93 said:


> My theory is that Ben was chosen by Jacob, but then turned power crazy and somehow relegated Jacob to the cabin and kept him from being able to leave or talk to anyone else. (Maybe something to do with the circle around the cabin)


In Ben's episode, they mentioned that only Ben has seen or talked to Jacob.



stellie93 said:


> I don't remember anyone mentioning Locke--maybe I missed it. Assuming they wouldn't be so stupid as to kill off Locke, and since it looks like the Others didn't save him and the Losties didn't save him, I think Jacob must have saved him somehow. (maybe Locke secretly opened the circle as he left the cabin)


Alex asked Ben where Locke was, and Ben replied that Locke had 'an accident'. It was right at the start of the '6 Hours Ago' flashback.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Bananfish said:


> I'm not convinced that Desmond actually saw Charlie flip the switch or die by drowning. I think he might have seen something that simply made him want to convince Charlie to go down to the station - i.e, he just manipulated Charlie into going.
> 
> For instance, Desmond might have seen *himself* go down there and face the killer Austin Powers chicks, and decided he'd rather Charlie face them. That might have been why he decided to let Charlie off the hook by going himself - he realized it was his own destiny and not Charlie's. (Which means that Desmond may end up down there to save Charlie after he wakes up - thus fulfilling the very vision that he already saw.)


I do agree that Desmond may not have given Charlie every detail (for example, it seems unlikely that Desmond didn't know Charlie would find air down there: surely he must have seen that there was no water when Charlie flipped the switch--unless the hatch floods later).

However, I'm pretty sure the basics are true: Desmond saw Charlie die down there. I can't buy the idea Desmond tried to convince Charlie to go down when he knew he shouldn't: telling someone they need to do something and on, by they way, they'll die doing it is not generally considered a very compelling argument.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> My theory is, Locke isn't dead until the island says he's dead.
> 
> And the island wants Locke alive.


And one other part that told me he's not dead - Ben threatened to shoot him again if Locke didn't tell him what Jacob said. There is usually little point in threatening to shoot a dying man. I think Ben did it that way because they both knew Locke would recover. Ben just bought some time.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

dtle said:


> Another Inconsistency? Charlie should've given the ring back when he saw his brother in Australia. Liam was clean and sober with a family, while Charlie was still using.


Man, wish I could come up with brilliant observations like that.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Yup. If you can't count on the washed-up drug-using has-been rock-stars of this world to do the right thing, who can you count on?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Here's to hoping Jack gets killed next week. Maimed will work, too.

I had serious pixilation problems with Comcast, South Jersey for the first 10 minutes or so.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

On the Ben/Locke front, I think Ben really wanted to know what Jacob said to Locke and "shot to wound." Once Locke told him, he realized that if he finished off Locke without "authorization" he could face the wrath of Jacob - probably in some gruesome smoke-monstery way. So he didn't leave him so much to buy time as he had done all he could do - it was up to the island.

(The long version of what Rob said)


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

I'm going back to the theory that Desmond is being tested on sacrifice. He was willing to sacrifice himself to save Charlie. Does this mean he passed the test? Or is the test to sacrifice Charlie? 

At this point I don't think the Hobbit is buying a farm in the Shire yet. Mostly because they *set it up* like he would be -- the "redemption angle" that seems to precede many Lost deaths. I think the producers are setting us up. Then again, that Vizzini monologue comes to mind, too.  

The more I look at those screen caps of Jacob's eye, the more I am convinced that it is Desmond. It's just that the profile of Jacob sitting in the chair really does not look like Desmond. So I'll just put forth another theory -- what if the figure in the chair and the close-up of the eye are different people? What if Desmond is *also* in the cabin with Jacob, Locke and Ben? 

Lastly, it was pretty blunt how Charlie knocked Desmond out with an oar -- too similar to how he was knocked out with the cricket bat. Can't be a coincidence, so I take it Desmond is on another cross-dimensional trip. Maybe he got knocked back a day or two and wound up in Jacob's Cabin?


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## ChrisNJ (Mar 7, 2007)

cheesesteak said:


> I had serious pixilation problems with Comcast, South Jersey for the first 10 minutes or so.


Interesting, I was chalking it up to the eSATA drive possibly getting too hot, but now that someone else had it happen, maybe it was in the broadcast in SJ.


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## mlisowski (Oct 2, 2001)

I thought Charlie's declaration that he was a champion swimmer very similar to the Poseidon Adventure when Shirley Winters said something similar.


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## Mike20878 (Jun 8, 2001)

ChrisNJ said:


> Was anyone having video glitches for about the first 10 minutes of the episode? (Philly/South Jersey area)


We've been having problems on all ABC shows we watch for the past several weeks. I'd been led to believe it was a local issue between our ABC affiliate (WJLA) and Comcast. WJLA's engineer posts in the AVS Forums (www.avsforum.com) and posted last week that they thought they had fixed it, but no such luck.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Mike20878 said:


> We've been having problems on all ABC shows we watch for the past several weeks. I'd been led to believe it was a local issue between our ABC affiliate (WJLA) and Comcast. WJLA's engineer posts in the AVS Forums (www.avsforum.com) and posted last week that they thought they had fixed it, but no such luck.


I get WJLA over OTA and DirecTV, and haven't had any sort of chronic problems on either.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

mlisowski said:


> I thought Charlie's declaration that he was a champion swimmer very similar to the Poseidon Adventure when Shirley Winters said something similar.


True. Both declarations were made before a long underwater swim, which I didn't think is what swimmers normally do.


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> Another question is, why did Richard ever let young Ben take over in the first place? We don't know if Richard was a leader in the old days, but he clearly has seniority over Ben.
> 
> My theory is that Ben was chosen by Jacob, but then turned power crazy and somehow relegated Jacob to the cabin and kept him from being able to leave or talk to anyone else. (Maybe something to do with the circle around the cabin)...


What I keep turning over in my head is whether Ben intended to kill Locke all along, or only after Locke was able to hear Jacob. Because if he intended to kill him all along, why not just do it and be done with it? Why even bother to take him to see Jacob? ESPECIALLY is he (Ben) has gotten drunk on power and does whatever he wants anyway using Jacob as the scapegoat...


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

ScottE22 said:


> What I keep turning over in my head is whether Ben intended to kill Locke all along, or only after Locke was able to hear Jacob. Because if he intended to kill him all along, why not just do it and be done with it? Why even bother to take him to see Jacob? ESPECIALLY is he (Ben) has gotten drunk on power and does whatever he wants anyway using Jacob as the scapegoat...


Well, he either decided afterward to kill Locke, or he planned all along to kill him, but wanted to know first just who he was killing, i.e., whether Locke was special enough to hear Jacob.


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## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

I saw in another response that someone thinks that Naomi might not be who she said she is- if she isn't sent by Penny, the only other person she could be sent by would have to be her dad - the only other one with a connection to the island that knows Desmond and could have that picture. 

Also, haven't there been many indications that Widmore is in cahoots with Dharma? Maybe Naomi is the first wave of "Dharma Strikes Back". 

Upon typing it out, I also realized that anyone who could have seen Desmond in the hatch could have easily given Naomi that info. Also, didn't he have the book and picture on display in the hatch? Either way, I don't trust Naomi either....


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

I really thought that scene with Charlie was supposed to be the same scene with Desmond. He was singing the same song and there was a flash rain storm. How often does that happen? I know he was wearing different clothes, but I'm convinced that Desmond didn't travel back in time anyway and that his flashback was all in his head.


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## Sromkie (Aug 15, 2002)

MikeMar said:


> I think back in season one it wasn't done with any intention of Charley not being able or wanting to swim, but to make Jack more of a Hero.


Well, Charlie didn't actually say he couldn't swim, just that he doesn't swim. So, I don't think there is a consistency problem here. I think those words were chosen carefully.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Sromkie said:


> Well, Charlie didn't actually say he couldn't swim, just that he doesn't swim. So, I don't think there is a consistency problem here. I think those words were chosen carefully.


It probably isn't out of character for Charlie to lie about not being able to swim when it suits him, and then lie again about being an expert swimmer when it suits him...


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## flyersfan (Nov 11, 2002)

NoThru22 said:


> I really thought that scene with Charlie was supposed to be the same scene with Desmond. He was singing the same song and there was a flash rain storm. How often does that happen? I know he was wearing different clothes, but I'm convinced that Desmond didn't travel back in time anyway and that his flashback was all in his head.


Well, it's England so it rains all the time. And he was singing a popular tune, presumably one that the passers-by recognize so they stop and listen. If he's always bringing out random tunes no one ever heard, they won't be as likely to donate.

I'd be surprised if the finale doesn't include some small portion of Desmond in another flashback/alternate timeline after getting conked in the head.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Alpinemaps said:


> In Ben's episode, they mentioned that only Ben has seen or talked to Jacob.
> 
> Who exactly said that? I know Ben has said it, but who believes him? So nobody questions that Ben goes and talks to this mysterious man that no one else has ever seen any evidence of? If Richard said it, I might believe him--he's been around a while.
> 
> When I said Locke hadn't been mentioned, I meant in the thread--just apologizing in advance for a smeek.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

NoThru22 said:


> I really thought that scene with Charlie was supposed to be the same scene with Desmond. He was singing the same song and there was a flash rain storm. How often does that happen? I know he was wearing different clothes, but I'm convinced that Desmond didn't travel back in time anyway and that his flashback was all in his head.


There is a sticker on his guitar (briefly visible as he puts it away in its case) which reads "I was here moments ago":
http://lost.cubit.net/forum/gallery/1_17_05_07_3_29_50.jpg

I think that's just an Easter Egg from the producers, rather than Desmond leaving a clue


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

As far as the shooters go, didn't Kate shoot a rope while dangling in a net that was turning in the first season? I would think she is the best shot there.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

I still don't understand why no one tried to follow the cable into the ocean before. Yes, its out a ways, but still.

And did Jin know Sun was pregnant before this? I didn't think he did, but then again I have a bad memory.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

jenhudson said:


> And did Jin know Sun was pregnant before this? I didn't think he did, but then again I have a bad memory.


Yes, he did. He thought it was a miracle because he believed that Sun was sterile (although, she knew that he was the infertile one and assumed that her lover was the father).


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

The Losties have not had a boat very often, and when they have had one they've been otherwise occupied and not worried about the cable.

I don't see how you could follow that cable without a boat: you'd never be able to swim all that way without the cable pulling you underwater.


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## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

stellie93 said:


> Alpinemaps said:
> 
> 
> > In Ben's episode, they mentioned that only Ben has seen or talked to Jacob.
> ...


That's just it - Ben said it, no one else. And I believe he said it to Locke, in conversation between the two of them.

Do I believe? I don' t know that I do. This is Ben we're talking about. I agree with you. I think if Ben is talking to some mysterious man, the other Others (Richard, etc), *should* be questioning it.

It's intentional that we don't know what's what with this...that much I'm convinced of.


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## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

flyersfan said:


> Well, it's England so it rains all the time. And he was singing a popular tune, presumably one that the passers-by recognize so they stop and listen. If he's always bringing out random tunes no one ever heard, they won't be as likely to donate.
> 
> I'd be surprised if the finale doesn't include some small portion of Desmond in another flashback/alternate timeline after getting conked in the head.


If I recall, in the Desmond episode Charlie had a sign, something along the line of "the musical stylings of Charles Hieronymus Pace" or something like that, which you didn't see in this scene.

Anyone else catch that the song Charlie was doing was by Oasis - a band with two brothers, one of them named Liam?


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

madscientist said:


> The Losties have not had a boat very often, and when they have had one they've been otherwise occupied and not worried about the cable.
> 
> I don't see how you could follow that cable without a boat: you'd never be able to swim all that way without the cable pulling you underwater.


I was just thinking -- that's some buoyant cable  It pretty much stayed on the surface until it was 20 or so feet from its destination. After all, it's not like a little catamaran would be able to sustain its weight, and they had it strung right across the boat. So, if it really floats, then, yes, they could have swum out to it. However I think it was just creative license in this case.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

wprager said:


> I was just thinking -- that's some buoyant cable  It pretty much stayed on the surface until it was 20 or so feet from its destination. After all, it's not like a little catamaran would be able to sustain its weight, and they had it strung right across the boat. So, if it really floats, then, yes, they could have swum out to it. However I think it was just creative license in this case.


Probably made out of some space-age super-light high-strength material like carbon nanotubes.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> I'm man enough to say when an episode moves me.. Charlie making that list caused at least one tear to well up.. Great episode...


That point for me was when he and Hurley hugged....choked me a bit...


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## Zrealm (Apr 25, 2005)

Philosofy said:


> As far as the shooters go, didn't Kate shoot a rope while dangling in a net that was turning in the first season? I would think she is the best shot there.


Second season, but yes - especially after Jack failed to do the exact same thing from the same net.

It's amazing how bad of a leader Jack is, that, even with that proof of his poor shooting, he still wanted to stay behind (on top of everything else).


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Answering my own earlier question about the cable... I think it appeared to be braided because of the sand on it. While watching the Answers episode, I noticed that it looked like a rubber-insulated type cable. So presumably it was used for power or communications or something similar, as opposed to just a tether purpose.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Should we rename the thread to the correct episode title?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

jlb said:


> Should we rename the thread to the correct episode title?


What episode title do you think it should be? As far as I know it's "Greatest Hits."


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## DUSlider (Apr 29, 2005)

Ok, so now we know there are 2 underwater stations. The one that the others took Jack to when they took him and the Looking Glass which we found out about in this episode. What was the name of the one they were holding Jack at?

Unless they are the same station, then Juliet is telling another lie about not ever going there and Jack has amnesia...

Assuming they are different, was the station Jack was being held at a Dharma station or one built by the others. I always thought it was another Dharma station that the others took over.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

I thought Jack was being held at a station with the logo of a octopus. That doesn't sound like something calling "The Looking Glass". It also indicates that it was a Dharma station.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

DUSlider said:


> Ok, so now we know there are 2 underwater stations. The one that the others took Jack to when they took him and the Looking Glass which we found out about in this episode. What was the name of the one they were holding Jack at?
> 
> Unless they are the same station, then Juliet is telling another lie about not ever going there and Jack has amnesia...
> 
> Assuming they are different, was the station Jack was being held at a Dharma station or one built by the others. I always thought it was another Dharma station that the others took over.


I've always assumed that the place on the other island where they took Jack, Sawyer and Kate at the beginning of the season was a "Zoo," where Dahrma kept and studied all of their animals. I don't remember it as having a name though.

And there's no indication that the Others every built anything permanent of their own. Just took over Dahrma, and when they weren't living there they lived in tents or huts.


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## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

Does anyone have access to a map that was shown of all the stations? Now that they are basically covering most of them, it'd be interesting to see their placement.

ETA:










But I think they place they took Jack and Sawyer and Kate was The Hydra. I don't know the station number.


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## DUSlider (Apr 29, 2005)

Hydra makes sense. Guess I was having a brain fart.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

And, if you want to be able to actually read the text on the map, here you go: http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x17/blastDoorMapOverlay.jpg


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## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

betts4 said:


> I thought the same thing about the 'greatest hits' album. I said "what? a one song album?". Maybe some other celebrity singers got together and all sang "You all everybody" as a memorial and such.


Ah yes, something like...


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## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

Zrealm said:


> It's amazing how bad of a leader Jack is, that, even with that proof of his poor shooting, he still wanted to stay behind (on top of everything else).


Or, he and Juliette are up to something else that they've decided not to let everyone else in on. I thought that Sayid either didn't trust Jack, or he still didn't trust Juliette and feared that Jack would not be able to react in time if Juliette turned out still to be working for Ben.


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## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

Actually, I just want to know why they're even considering Jack's plan, given how well his _last_ plan turned out. You remember, it was something like "We know that Michael is leading us into a trap so let's fool them by walking directly into it!"

Then there was that whole "Let's move to the caves!" plan, not to mention the "I'll keep the key to the case with the guns" plan.

Have _any_ of Jack's plans ever actually worked? Wouldn't their best course of action be to listen to Jack then do the exact opposite?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

tanstaafl said:


> Have _any_ of Jack's plans ever actually worked? Wouldn't their best course of action be to listen to Jack then do the exact opposite?


Yeah, now that you mentioned it, his plan to fly from Sydney to LA pretty much set the tone for him...


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, now that you mentioned it, his plan to fly from Sydney to LA pretty much set the tone for him...


Let's not forget his plan to marry and live happily ever after with Carol Vessey.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

danterner said:


> Let's not forget his plan to marry and live happily ever after with Carol Vessey.


OR, his decision NOT to sleep w/Gabriela


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

danterner said:


> Let's not forget his plan to marry and live happily ever after with Carol Vessey.


Doh! _That's_ where I've seen her before! Sheesh.

Actually, on the Lost podcast the producers were having a chuckle at exactly the same thing "do any of Jack's plans ever work? Why do people still follow him anyway?" Pretty funny.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

latrobe7 said:


> OR, his decision NOT to sleep w/Gabriela


I forgot about her. She'll probably turn up again.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Rose DID say Jack was more of an optimist these days.  When it comes to his own plans the guy never quits trying, you gotta give him that.

Someday though, that ant *will* move that rubber tree plant ...


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

dswallow said:


> What episode title do you think it should be? As far as I know it's "Greatest Hits."





Spoiler



I thought the episode was called "Through the Looking Glass" or something like that?????



EDIT: Oooops....sorry......that is the title of the finale. I guess I will spoilerize what I wrote just in case people think the ep titles sort give a little bit of info away.......


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## Zrealm (Apr 25, 2005)

thenightfly42 said:


> Or, he and Juliette are up to something else that they've decided not to let everyone else in on. I thought that Sayid either didn't trust Jack, or he still didn't trust Juliette and feared that Jack would not be able to react in time if Juliette turned out still to be working for Ben.


Sayid is absolutely right not to trust them - Juliette has betrayed them like 8 or 10 times in a row now, and Jack is looking worse and worse by the day...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Nope, it's "Greatest Hits." "Through the Looking Glass" I and II are tomorrow night (5/23).


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

tanstaafl said:


> Actually, I just want to know why they're even considering Jack's plan, given how well his _last_ plan turned out. You remember, it was something like "We know that Michael is leading us into a trap so let's fool them by walking directly into it!"
> 
> Then there was that whole "Let's move to the caves!" plan, not to mention the "I'll keep the key to the case with the guns" plan.
> 
> Have _any_ of Jack's plans ever actually worked? Wouldn't their best course of action be to listen to Jack then do the exact opposite?


Point well taken. But I've given up hope of Jack's demise. Watched the exec producers show and they waxed extatic about Jack's 'heroism and leadership'. Oh well.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

philw1776 said:


> Watched the exec producers show and they waxed extatic about Jack's 'heroism and leadership'. Oh well.


Really? On the podcasts they joke about how Jack's plans never work out and most of the people he operates on end up dying. Of course none of that means he can't be heroic and a good leader, but I've never heard them "wax ecstatic" about Jack.


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

The Losties are safely hidden out of view. From their vantage point away from the beach, the chosen shooters are set, rifles and guns trained on their targets. As night falls, they soon observe The Others come ashore and start making their way towards the camp.

Rousseau (to Jack): "Thank God you put the dynamite in the tents early."

Jack: "I thought you put the dynamite in the tents?"

Sayid: "Doh."


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

madscientist said:


> Really? On the podcasts they joke about how Jack's plans never work out and most of the people he operates on end up dying. Of course none of that means he can't be heroic and a good leader, but I've never heard them "wax ecstatic" about Jack.


They did on the show. Thus my comment. I did not say podcast.


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## Bulldog7 (Oct 6, 2002)

Delta13 said:


> When Charlie was shouting "I'm alive!" was I the only one shouting back, "Shut up you sodding fool!"
> 
> Yeah okay, probably just me.


No, I was saying the same thing in American....as in "shut the #$%^ up, they will hear you, Charlie!". I have never use the word sodding in my life, and did not think of it at the time.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Bulldog7 said:


> I have never use the word sodding in my life, and did not think of it at the time.


And now you have.


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