# 2 Roamios 4 cablecards later Fios problems



## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

2 weeks ago I came home to channel not authorized (v58) messages after 18 months of flawless operation. I go for a "rehit" of my cablecard and no help. I check my cablecard screen after an error message 161-1 and 161-17 pops up and I see failed to load card in the pairing and conditional access screens. I call Fios at 1AM (I don't recommend) and talk to someone to re-pair my card. After having trouble I pull the card from my Premier in an attempt to pair that card with no luck. Now they are both dead for some reason?

The next day I call Fios back to attempt the operation again. We try both cards in both the Premier and the Roamio with no luck (this guy was very patient and worked with me for over 2 hours). I was overnighted 2 new cablecards (with the 17 part numbers I heard it mattered at one point)

I put the first card in the Roamio and it shows no card so I put it in the Premier the pairing screen appears I call the number it activates and it still works 2 weeks later. 

I put the second card in after rebooting the Roamio I call up again in the middle of the night (I'll never learn) it kinda works. I call back the next morning and have it re-paired all the numbers look good on the pairing screen and the conditional access screen. I go about my day and I come home from work that night and it starts again (v58) 161-1 161-17 no-card etc. 

I reboot I start loading channels tuner 1 local NBC check, tuner 2 local ABC check, tuner 3 local CBS check tuner 4 WGN check tuner 5 Food network BLACK SCREEN, tuner 6 CNN CHANNEL NOT AUTHORIZED (V58). Jump back to tuner 2 Channel not authorized??? 

I check the cablecard screen NO CARD??? Then it changes to NON M-CARD INSERTED. Then normal but when you try to look at the Conditional access or pairing screens it sits at loading then failed to load. If you reboot you can view the screens until you load channels in the tuners. Acording to Fios and Tivo the cards are Paired properly with all the proper figures and symbols on the proper spaces. I call Fios back they check the pairing (after I reboot so I can see the screen) everything looks good they suggest it could be a defective Tivo. I call Tivo explain the story to them and they agree and send out a referb on my extended warranty.

Jump ahead Tivo sends me a Referb Roamio I set it up I pair the cablecard and as soon as I get to tuner # 5 black screen and cablecard fails to load? Is Fios restricting the maximum amount of streams even though 5 Fios techs said no? The diagnostics screen shows 95 - 100 signal strength and 40 - 41 db snr on all tuners but if I go to the signal strength meter screen it starts at 100 and drops to 0?

I'm lost any ideas or suggestions for Tivo or Fios on the next phone call I have to send one of these boxes back soon before I get billed $$$ I'd rather keep the original with my programs and warranty if its not bad but Tivo says its a Fios issue and Fios says its a bad Tivo


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

Just an update. After 3 hours on the phone with 2 Fios techs and one Tivo tech a light bulb went off. 

The Tivo tech had me check my signal strength on the tuners 100% and an SNR of 41% across the board. He said that was way to high as the Tivo can only display up to 100 and it could actually be higher with an SNR of 41%. He then suggested attenuation before my cordless phone died.

With my cable card in error mode I pulled the coax off the Tivo waited for the searching for signal error to appear and went to the cablecard screen and guess what the pairing screen reappeared!!!

I hope the is the answer I'm off to buy some attenuators


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

tech1029 said:


> Just an update. After 3 hours on the phone with 2 Fios techs and one Tivo tech a light bulb went off.
> 
> The Tivo tech had me check my signal strength on the tuners 100% and an SNR of 41% across the board. He said that was way to high as the Tivo can only display up to 100 and it could actually be higher with an SNR of 41%. He then suggested attenuation before my cordless phone died.
> 
> ...


When I saw the price for these on Amazon, I thought you might want to consider this source, http://electronics.mcmelectronics.c...thod=and&view=list&sli_jump=1&af=&isort=price
In the mean time, a couple more splitters will work in the meantime.


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## RobertTheRaven (Dec 26, 2002)

tech1029 said:


> Just an update. After 3 hours on the phone with 2 Fios techs and one Tivo tech a light bulb went off.
> 
> The Tivo tech had me check my signal strength on the tuners 100% and an SNR of 41% across the board. He said that was way to high as the Tivo can only display up to 100 and it could actually be higher with an SNR of 41%. He then suggested attenuation before my cordless phone died.
> 
> ...


Please let us know if the attenuators did the trick for you! I'm having the exact same problem all of a sudden the past 2 weeks. I got a new cablecard thinking that was the problem, but now after 2 days with the new card, it's starting up again. My signal strength is also the same as yours. 100 / 41%.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

FIOS delivers EXTREMELY hot signal levels into the home, particularly if your coax is in good shape. The stated rationale for the high signal level is to overcome problems with very old RG59 cables and splitters in some homes. These hot signals can sometimes overload the Roamio, but not Premieres, because TiVo put a signal amplifier in the Roamios to compensate for splitting the signal 6 ways. What I continue to wonder about is why TiVo didn't bother to put automatic gain control on that amplifier?

In our case, we have a single 8 way splitter on the coax run from the ONT (our broadband comes in on Ethernet) and had to add an ADDITIONAL 12db attenuator on the splitter input. With a total of 24db of signal attenuation, we STILL get signal strength of 98% and a SNR of 37db.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

I have posted before and have had the same problems as OP. I just got a replacement cable card last week. I was using an 8db attenuator and it barely reduced the signal. The new card had the same issues. I ordered some more attenuators. I get the V58 and the 161 messages. Last night around 11:45pm the card went out again. I just received a new assortment of attenuators and I placed a 20db one between the cable and TIVO. Significant reduction in strength this time. I am now at anywhere between 84-91% and the signal depending on the tuner is 32-34db. I hope this is the end and I never have to post about this issue again. I am still not convinced that Verizon FIOS doesn't send out code to disable anyone who has hacked their cable cards. It just doesn't make sense that never having an issue for years using Verizon FIOS cable cards with both the Premiere and Roamio that the cable card keeps un-pairing and rebooting the TIVO always solves the problem. For several weeks the card was un-pairing on Sundays. Why would the strong signal not disable the card on other days.Sometimes it would happen when I just watching live TV or a recorded program and not recording anything else at the time. Other times it would occur when I was recording 4 shows at the same time on Sunday nights. This past week it happened on Sunday, Monday and Thursday.


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## RobertTheRaven (Dec 26, 2002)

My story is very much like yours Jackstraw.

I bought 3 attenuators this week. And I tried a bunch of splitters. At the moment, I'm at 90-91% Signal Strength, and 36 dB SNR using a 3.5 db splitter, 3,6, and 12 attenuator. I tried removing most of the splitters since with the last attenuator I got, the signal was too weak. 

But of course, things stopped working again tonight. The TiVo unit seems very finicky when adjusting cables. And recording at the same time. So I often have to reboot, and then upon reboot, it will often work for the channel it was left on. But then if I try to change channel, I get a black screen, and then the error start. Or if left alone, it will stop working after a few minutes.

It's annoying when I give up and go to Netflix or watch a show, and then TiVo shows the error that it can't get all my channels, so then it interrupts everything and brings me back to TiVo Central.

After a fresh reboot, sometimes I can go into Cablecard stats and see info confirming my strength and SNR. Sometimes, it'll say I don't have a Cablecard anymore. Sometimes it just says I have a non-M card inserted.

Is there a way to confirm that the TiVo itself is not faulty (aside from not handling input signal very well)? I'm concerned because I have the most problems in the evening when it is recording shows and I'm trying to change channels.

But if I'm not around, and shows record, I think they're mostly fine. Something about me being around when shows record and I'm watching TV. Or it's something FIOS is doing in the evening during regular watching hours.

Are there any other diagnostic checks I should do to confirm the TiVo itself is healthy?

Just for sanity check, I did take a splitted end from one of these cables and fed it into my TV, to confirm that the TiVo wasn't showing anything but the TV was. And of course, the TV worked.

This whole thing is making me angry. Like, angry to go back to crappy Verizon DVRs. Or maybe, hope for a fix in any new TiVo Bolts or something...

Thanks!



JackStraw said:


> I have posted before and have had the same problems as OP. I just got a replacement cable card last week. I was using an 8db attenuator and it barely reduced the signal. The new card had the same issues. I ordered some more attenuators. I get the V58 and the 161 messages. Last night around 11:45pm the card went out again. I just received a new assortment of attenuators and I placed a 20db one between the cable and TIVO. Significant reduction in strength this time. I am now at anywhere between 84-91% and the signal depending on the tuner is 32-34db. I hope this is the end and I never have to post about this issue again. I am still not convinced that Verizon FIOS doesn't send out code to disable anyone who has hacked their cable cards. It just doesn't make sense that never having an issue for years using Verizon FIOS cable cards with both the Premiere and Roamio that the cable card keeps un-pairing and rebooting the TIVO always solves the problem. For several weeks the card was un-pairing on Sundays. Why would the strong signal not disable the card on other days.Sometimes it would happen when I just watching live TV or a recorded program and not recording anything else at the time. Other times it would occur when I was recording 4 shows at the same time on Sunday nights. This past week it happened on Sunday, Monday and Thursday.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

My best guess is that you guys having trouble is that you have something wonky with the Tivo's, I am pretty certain Roamios have an AGC (automatic gain control) circuit builtin and if that is going, you are likely to get all kinds of similar issues, and the readings on the Tivo regarding signal strength and SNR are also going to be totally out of kilter at the same time. 
It may also result in a very tiny window of the true signal strength in which you can get a usable signal. Getting Tivo to acknowledge this....is going to be very hard though.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

fcfc2 said:


> My best guess is that you guys having trouble is that you have something wonky with the Tivo's, I am pretty certain Roamios have an AGC (automatic gain control) circuit builtin and if that is going, you are likely to get all kinds of similar issues, and the readings on the Tivo regarding signal strength and SNR are also going to be totally out of kilter at the same time.
> It may also result in a very tiny window of the true signal strength in which you can get a usable signal. Getting Tivo to acknowledge this....is going to be very hard though.


If Roamio Pro/Plus models have AGC on the signal amplifier, it has never worked. EVERY FiOS/Roamio user I have ever seen mention signal strength has reported the extremely high signal level delivered to the tuners.

One note about attenuators and MOCA...the attenuators and splitters will reduce the MOCA signal as well as the cable signal (though, usually, not as much). You want to put as much attenuation as possible before the first splitter, so that the device to device path is as direct (without attentenuation) as possible.


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

WOW I didn't realize so many people had replied to this forum. I hadn't gotten any notifications. Not to mention I needed to just "walk away" for a bit.

Just another update. I am now on my 5th (used) cable card (they keep mailing them) with the same result even after the addition of splitters to attenuate the signal down to 89 to 90 % with an SNR of 33 to 36 and just a few RS uncorrected packets maybe 20 in a days time. 

Tivo insist it has to be Fios sending me faulty cablecards so I have a truck roll scheduled for Friday the 22nd. In the mean time my attenuators have arrived so I will rewire my setup and and just tweak everything before they arrive.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

After installing a 20db attenuator it happened again last night. I checked the signal on the diagnostics screen right after it happened and my tuner strength had jumped to 100% with an SNR of 40. I don't understand what is causing these spikes. I got very aggressive and added a 12db attenuator to the 20db. It was too much and I lost the signal entirely and I was getting a V58 screen. I took out the 12db and tried an 8db. It seems to have worked reducing the signal down to 75% and an SNR of 30db. I have no idea if the problem will occur again. It appears to me because everything was working fine with the Roamio for well over a year that Verizon is actually the guilty party. They are sending out code over the fiber to disrupt the card. TIVO's response is the cable cards are defective. So everyone in this thread keeps running into a bad batch of cable cards. You will never get Verizon to admit they are sending out code to disrupt hacked cable cards. What are some of the causes. Gamers on my street demand on the fiber keep the signal strength low and when they go offline the signal spikes again at my home. This in turn boosts the signal overloads my card and I lose the picture again. How can you explain the 20db attenuator reducing the signal to acceptable levels and then it jumps back to 100% and 40db last night.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

Reducing the signal further didn't work. Arriving at the sweet spot of 85% signal strength and 35db SNR and the Roamio is still disconnecting from the card. V58 and 161-17 errors. Non M card inserted. No card inserted. M card inserted and still black screen on all channels. Basically same problems even with the replacement cable card. I was on the phone with a CSR at Verizon for over an hour last night. He did all the tricks. Deleting the card from the system and authorizing as new card. Nothing on his screen showed any errors. He was then babbling that my TIVO wasn't compatible with Verizon cards. After arguing he realized that the Roamio was compatible. Then he was saying some nonsense that I couldn't get premium channels using a card but I was getting a V58 on all channels. Let's face it. Verizon doesn't want people using TIVO's. They want them to lease Quantum at $32 a month plus tax to use their inferior software and less storage.

I don't know where to turn from here. Replace the unit yet others say the same issues persist with a replacement. I just find it hard to believe that the Roamio which never had an issue for a year suddenly develops a problem. I do know that this started around the same time TIVO updated their software. Rebooting the TIVO fixes the problem but that might only work for an hour, a day or a week. I was really hoping that the attenuator solution would resolve the issue. Clearly it goes way beyond that.


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

I had my truck roll on Friday. This is the result.

Prior to his arrival I should mention I rewired the entire entertainment center. New 2 way splitter with one feed to the router the other feed to a 3 way feeding the Fios QIP 7100 the Premiere and the last feed to a 8db attenuator to the Roamio. The Roamio now reads 92% with 32db and no RS corrected or uncorrected on any channel. I still have the V58 and 161 errors though.

The tech shows up and states this is the 3rd Tivo job he has ever done. First thing tech does is pull out his meter and test line strength. He finds the attenuated line feeding the Roamio extremely low. I believe he used a number of 14? He said it was to low to pass a valid signal compared to the non attenuated lines and had me remove the attenuator. So now do I believe the diagnostics page on the Roamio considering how long it worked before all this happed without attenuators?

He called the Central office (CO) to attempt to pair the card in the Roamio (his tablet is not working). They pair it. I load my tuners with 6 different channels NBC ABC CBS WGN that's when it goes black. I continue FOOD NET V53 signal error CNBC V58 not authorized. Back to tuner 5 FOODNET now V58. 

CO tells tech to move card to Premiere. Card is paired and working fine. One problem solved. CO says try a new card in the Roamio. I tell the tech to make sure he has a card with a 17 in the part number. He goes to the truck and brings the only card he has but it is a 17 and it look to be new in the package to me anyway. This is also a Motorola card. The last 2 17 cards sent to me were Arris cards. I reboot the CO pairs it I load the same channels as above with the same result. 

CO now says I must have a bad card slot. I now pull out the replacement Roamio I received under warranty. I did a cross ship for just this reason. I hope this issue gets solve soon as one of these unit has to be returned to Tivo as they are holding money on my credit card until it is returned. 

Replacement Roamio hooked up card paired same channels loaded and same errors. 

CO now has tech try plugging the Roamio in the same power strip as the Premier only to have the same result. Next was to try the cable feed from the Fios box again same result. Next is to try replacing the ONT. Same result. Now try disconnect everything on the circuit but the router and the Roamio. That also did not work. We then got down to just the Roamio with the same result. 

All the while the CO was conferring to someone on their end who was a "Tivo specialist". After 3 1/2 hours and the tech going through 2 cell phones the last thing I was told was: 

There were 2 other people in my neighborhood (White Horse a suburb of Trenton NJ) who are experiencing similar issues. They are on what is called the "B" node or channel? (I forget the exact terminology he used) where everyone else in the surrounding neighborhoods are using "G" . He says it has something to do with the way the CO communicates with the ONT. I have the older ONT from back in 2008. I asked if upgrading the ONT to a newer generation would help. He said no its not on my end and the issue is now being referred to a tier 2 software tech. I was told to check back in the middle of next week to see if there is a fix. In the mean time I received a text later that night stating everything was fixed. I rushed home to find out its still not working. 

Stay tuned

I know Fios is monitoring this forum I hope Tivo is also monitoring at this time and maybe in communication with Fios over this issue.

All I know is something happened be it a software or firmware update on someone's end on June 23rd 2016 that caused my Tivo Roamio Plus to no longer want to tune more then 3 tuners. I'm almost positive Tivo's latest update was a week or 2 before the 23rd


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

You have answered a lot of questions for me. I was on the phone with TIVO this morning, no solutions. I knew my card slot wasn't bad and there is something else that is causing this problem. I am about to throw in towel and it's going to cost me significant money. I live in the South Jersey area and DirectTV won't negotiate with Comcast Sportsnet over the carry fee. This means with DTV I can't get Phillies, Flyers or Sixers games. I know the Sixers were bad but they have a really bright future along with the other teams. This means I have to keep a base program package with FIOS and just use my Verizon DVR. I don't like Quantum. All I read are complaints about how poorly it works. I am also going to lose EPIX which offers a really good movie package and some original programming which I like. DTV is suppose to get EPIX in the future. I shouldn't be forced to do any of this. I spent over $400 on the Roamio Pro and have already paid for the TIVO sub in May for a full year. I'm actually glad I didn't buy a lifetime sub because you never know what is going to happen. I still have about 350 hours of stored programming on the TIVO. I will watch it and eventually sell the Roamio on eBay for whatever I can get for it. I hope DTV will let me subscribe as a new sub. I had DTV about 5 years ago. At least if I can do that I can save some money on the equivalent package I had with Verizon. 

It's astonishing with the advances in technology that there are still issues with CableCards. I remember when I first got FIOS 4 years ago how it over an hour to pair the card on the phone with CSR. Some of the premium channels worked, others said I wasn't subscribed. The pairing on my replacement card last week took about 5 minutes with the online screen. All the channels showed up until the issues resumed. TIVO pushes through too many updates without testing them properly. This isn't rocket science and yet TIVO and Verizon are unable to get on the same page. Let's face it, Verizon wants you to use their hardware. $4.99 per month for a CableCard isn't the same as $32 for Quantum or $19.99 for an HD DVR set top box. Verizon has no incentive to create or partner with TIVO to offer a box like the DTV Genie. Some cable companies did partner with TIVO.

In a few years and it is actually happening already DVR's will be obsolete. Everything will be in the cloud. You will be able to store 1000 hours or more of HD programming. You won't lose the saved programs due to hardware failures.
With redundancy your programs will be there as long as you pay the monthly fee. You will only be at the mercy of the Internet. With all the 4K programming that you now can only download the bandwidth and pipelines will have to be fast.


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## cambridgebandb (Jan 13, 2015)

My problems started sometime in early July. That the same for all of you? If so - I think FIOS made some kind of change that broke cable card or at least cable card in TiVO. 

I am in Northern VA. Others?


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

That is the big question. My problem started when I got home from work and I started changing channels around 11:45 after the news on June 23rd 2016.

I want to say I already had 20.6.1 before this happened. So now the question is did Fios update something or did Tivo send out a minor update to the 20.6.1. I'm in work right now so I can't provide the whole number at this time.

Reading some of the other topics in the community I see it is happening to some Bolts also. I would like to try a software rollback to eliminate that possibility. Does anyone know how or where to find out exactly when the last update was applied to a Tivo?


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## Number528 (Oct 6, 2011)

cambridgebandb said:


> My problems started sometime in early July. That the same for all of you? If so - I think FIOS made some kind of change that broke cable card or at least cable card in TiVO.
> 
> I am in Northern VA. Others?


I've been on FiOS in the Richmond, VA area for several years and have no recent or current problems.

My Roamio is on 20.6.1-RC14


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

tech1029 said:


> ...They are on what is called the "B" node or channel? (I forget the exact terminology he used) where everyone else in the surrounding neighborhoods are using "G" ...


That sounds like he was talking about GPON vs. BPON. When FiOS was initially rolled out it was an all BPON network. They have since converted to GPON (which provides greater broadband capacity than BPON), but if you order less than 100Mb broadband service you may still be connected to BPON.

Since thousands of FiOS and TiVo users are happily using their TiVo with BPON service from Verizon (myself included) it isn't likely a universal problem with the network type. If it is a local issue, it should be quite easy to switch you to GPON - simply install a GPON based ONT. However, Verizon is usually loathe to switch out the ONT unless the user orders 100Mb or higher broadband. In fact, if you have 75Mb service, upgrading to 100Mb isn't an option - because Verizon feels the the monthly revenue is too similar to justify the cost of replacing the ONT.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

JackStraw said:


> ....... I live in the South Jersey area and DirectTV won't negotiate with Comcast Sportsnet over the carry fee. This means with DTV I can't get Phillies, Flyers or Sixers games. I know the Sixers were bad but they have a really bright future along with the other teams. This means I have to keep a base program package with FIOS and just use my Verizon DVR.............


Have you looked into PlayStation Vue, a streaming cable tv alternative similar to SlingTV (only way better!). It has Comcast SportsNet Philly and all the local network affiliates like CHs 3,6,10,29, etc. It will work on PS3 (sucks!) or 4, Amazon FireTV stick (also sucks), FireTV box (best along with ps4), Roku and chromecast (haven't tested either). There's three different tiers of lineups with many of your favorite cable channels. Maybe you can keep your TiVo for OTA antenna signals of the networks and use Vue for sports and cable channels, like I do?

I use mine through a VPN from thousands of miles away in HI to my parent's outside philly and I get great quality and can watch all my teams and CSN philly shows to boot.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

I removed all the attenuators from the line and amazingly I have not lost the picture in almost 24 hours. The signal is back to being hot, 100% and 42 SNR. I don't know how long it will last but the attenuators definitely exacerbated the problem even one as little as 8db. I have 50mb/50mb internet and have no desire to pay more just to have FIOS install a different delivery system on the ONT. 

Verizon wants to spend billions to buy Yahoo yet they can't solve a technical issue with their CableCARDS. I think all the really good engineers and coders work for the top businesses like Apple, Amazon, Microsoft and a few others. $245 a month comes out my checking account each month to Verizon. Would you want to lose a subscriber that pays almost $3000 a year. If I was Verizon once my account was pulled up I would forward to the highest level tech at the call center. I don't think they realize the sand is sinking at their feet and cord cutters are going to drop them by the thousands in the coming year. Is it any shock that cable companies are some of most despised businesses in the country.


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

Diana Collins said:


> That sounds like he was talking about GPON vs. BPON. When FiOS was initially rolled out it was an all BPON network. They have since converted to GPON (which provides greater broadband capacity than BPON), but if you order less than 100Mb broadband service you may still be connected to BPON.


Thanks Diana it was driving me crazy that I couldn't remember what the tech had called it.

I wonder now though if it possible that the GPON is the only system that works with their "QUANTUM" service which if I'm not mistaken contains their DVR with the ability to record 6 to 12 channels depending on the package. Now with me still being on BPON my 2 tuner Tivo works fine but my 6 tuner Tivo has issues.

The tech did mention that even changing my ONT would not help as my area is being fed a BPON type feed so a new ONT would still receive slow (?) software. He also mentioned communication issues with the cable card for the Roamio and it is being referred to the Tier 2 software guys. I'm going to call tomorrow and see if the "tier 2 software engineers" have come up with a fix yet.

Stay tuned


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

I have never heard of a FiOS area where only BPON is available at this late date. If you go to the "services" area on the Verizon website, are you offered internet faster than 75Mbps? If so, GPON is available in your area.


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## dmurphy (Jan 17, 2002)

Diana Collins said:


> I have never heard of a FiOS area where only BPON is available at this late date. If you go to the "services" area on the Verizon website, are you offered internet faster than 75Mbps? If so, GPON is available in your area.


GPON should be available almost everywhere, HOWEVER it's possible that the GPON OLT at the CO is full, or there's no room on the local splitter to his home. Remember, even though outside plant is the same, GPON and BPON need to be isolated on separate splits.

My guess (and it is just a GUESS) is that the original poster's ONT is having some issues. I'm guessing that the RF output is varying output and causing spikes. They do wonky things as they age, and given that it's BPON, is approaching a decade old.

To the OP -- in the fios deployment, all RF (coax) signal is generated in your house. Neighbors, gamers etc will have nothing to do with it.

The ONT box on your wall (from Verizon) is what generates the RF signal. My guess is that the gain control on it is faulty. Just a guess.

For clarification, I'm also a FiOS customer in NJ. Have a BPON installation and a dirt old ONT unit (Tellabs 611) and it all works great. 3 Roamios, 4 Minis and never an issue. Never had a single CableCard problem whatsoever. Never a V58, never a disconnect. All works splendidly well.

So it's not a programming thing, or a generic incompatibility. I really think changing the ONT would make the problem disappear. Just my $0.02.

Edit: ps - FiOS Quantum works just fine over BPON. Had it prior to coming home to TiVo.


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

The saga continues

To Dmurphy 
In my post about the truck roll, I did state the ONT was replaced with no change. The tech only replaced it with the same exact model just changed out the "guts" with a new unit.

On to the story:

Thursday July 27th I figure I should give Tivo a call and update them on the previous truck roll and let them know of the tech telling me that there is an issue with the Fios software and the issue is being elevated to tier 2.

Tivo's response was if you are still having issues you should get another truck roll and while the tech is in the house I should call Tivo and the 2 of them can work the issue out together. I asked Tivo if a 3 way call while he was on the phone would work and he said no you should have a tech at the house with a bunch of cable cards at the ready when you call us. I then asked one more time are we 100% sure I don't have a second Roamio with the exact same problem as the first? AKA lightning striking twice in the same place. His response is if it is a pairing issue it has to be a Fios issue.

Friday July 28th I call Fios. For whatever reason I try the automated walkthrough. I wait a half hour as the system say and the Premiere works fine all channels working I can access all the cable card screens ETC.

I try the Roamio and same result. V58 as usual. It still seems as though I am not allowed to access more then 3 tuners. I call back Fios and pull the representative card in the tech support menu. Now I am on the phone with Bridget and of course I have to explain the whole story from the start again. Her response is to take the defensive and state if you have had 6 cable cards and a truck roll you must have a bad unit and your issue lies with Tivo.

I proceed to explain to tell her that I had a second identical unit shipped to me and it has the same exact issue. Now she starts to explain to me how firmware works and says I must have gotten a bad update. I told her I did get an update exactly on June 6th but my issue happened on June 23rd. She goes on to explain how firmware can do funny things and I quote "for example on my android phone I got an update that messed up my phone but my friends phones were okay". 

I interrupted her and put the scenario to her okay so then you return your phone and they give you a new one of the same model and only you end up with the same problem again? or does everyone have the issue with the update on the same service? how many people on Fios with Roamios are complaining of this exact issue? 

Along this line of questions I am posing to her one of her answers was I just bought an Apple. I said if it is a combo Tivo Roamio connected to Fios issue why am I the only one having the problem. She said she wouldn't know if there are any other issues with other Roamios just if people would have cable card problems. I had to dispute that with the question no one calls and says my Tivo has a problem? 

Moving on I asked her what did the Tier 2 software department find out about my issue. If you recall the tech last Friday said as he was leaving that it as a software issue on the Fios end and he will elevate it and I was to call back in the middle of the week. 

Bridget proceeds to tell me Fridays tech never filed a report to elevate anything and my ticket was closed. I guess that would explain the text message I got late that evening. She goes on to say that she does see a report in tier 2 stating that there is a KNOWN ISSUE with the Roamio and Fios that was sent to them by Tivo. It talks about pixilation and channel loss and is dated for some time in May. She says a future firmware issue may correct it. 

This story was edited for time and space. there was a lot of repeated questions and answers. as well as pairing attempts etc.

Until then she suggested I should have Tivo send me a different model. I will call Tivo back tomorrow an tell them Fios' latest suggestion. More to follow I'm sure.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

After removing all the attenuators and trouble free service the V58 and 161 reared it's ugly head about 12:30am. I was channel surfing, flipping through a few channels and then I saw the dreaded black screen. I changed the channel and it was also black. CableCard not loading. It did show the CableCard was inserted. I rebooted the Tivo and all the channels came back as usual. I'm calling it a night and see if it still works tomorrow. When the problem is not occurring I recorded 6 shows at the same time. It works fine. If I get a tech to come out I can't cause the card to fail. It fails when it wants to. How can I get him to replace the ONT. At least my streak is intact. It's never worked more than 7 days without failing and Sunday continues to be it's most popular day to malfunction. The common facts with others. Live in NJ and the problem started in late June.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

JackStraw said:


> After removing all the attenuators and trouble free service the V58 and 161 reared it's ugly head about 12:30am. I was channel surfing, flipping through a few channels and then I saw the dreaded black screen. I changed the channel and it was also black. CableCard not loading. It did show the CableCard was inserted. I rebooted the Tivo and all the channels came back as usual. I'm calling it a night and see if it still works tomorrow. When the problem is not occurring I recorded 6 shows at the same time. It works fine. If I get a tech to come out I can't cause the card to fail. It fails when it wants to. How can I get him to replace the ONT. At least my streak is intact. It's never worked more than 7 days without failing and Sunday continues to be it's most popular day to malfunction. The common facts with others. Live in NJ and the problem started in late June.


To you guys with the troublesome BPON ONT's, try checking into your account and look for any possible upgrade to 100+Mbps. Even if only 150 or above is available to you, consider temporarily upgrading. If this is available, it will force them to upgrade your ONT to GPON. 
If no upgrade speeds are available on your account, it means that what was suggested earlier about all of the GPON slots at your local CO are being used.
If this is the case, an FCC complaint is about your only course of action that may eventually lead to a resolution. The complaint is legit because Verizon is not supporting your cable cards as they are required.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

dmurphy said:


> GPON should be available almost everywhere, HOWEVER it's possible that the GPON OLT at the CO is full, or there's no room on the local splitter to his home. Remember, even though outside plant is the same, GPON and BPON need to be isolated on separate splits...


Good point, I hadn't thought of that. Easy enough to tell from the services upgrade page.



dmurphy said:


> My guess (and it is just a GUESS) is that the original poster's ONT is having some issues. I'm guessing that the RF output is varying output and causing spikes. They do wonky things as they age, and given that it's BPON, is approaching a decade old.


Interesting idea. It is less likely, given the swap out already done...unless the problem is systemic to a particular brand and model of ONT in combination with TiVo Roamios.


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

Time for an update
I gave Tivo a call on the 29th to break the news to them that Fios will not roll another truck to my home and that they suggest that they send me a different model. I also informed them that Fios says that 100% their software is flawed because that's what the girl on the phone at Fios said. I have to assume it must be true because the tech that was at my house who said that the signal being fed to my house was flawed even though he NEVER reported to his higher ups and today (August 3rd) I just got my Fios bill which includes a 3rd cable card dated the 22nd that I'm going to guess would be the one he brought to my house but must have failed to report that he also returned one.

So now tomorrow morning I have to jump in someones ass at Fios for not only the missing cable card refund but I also want service credit for the non-working cable cards in my Tivo for over a month now. On a side note, anyone notice how little there is "on demand" compared to other carriers? 
With my lack of Tivo I try to catch up with on demand but notice some channels only go back 2 weeks and you have to buy the rest. Where my girl has Comcast and she would have a whole season available.

As for the working Premiere, well on Aug 2nd I tried to put on USA channel 550 and it only took 4 min. for the channel to come in. No errors just a black screen until poof it came on. The same thing for any other "basic" channel TNT TBS MTV AXS FOOD etc. It worked fine since the tech was there on the 22nd then who knows. I checked the cable card screen and there it was the dreaded failed to load. I tried the locals ABC NBC etc and they took about 30 sec. The next day every everything was back to normal. No reboots no storms no power failures. The Roamio still don't know how to act.

Getting back to the Roamio, Tivo is flabbergasted at Fios' response about not rolling another truck. They are sending me yet another Roamio with instructions to not hook it up until I call them. They want to be involved in every step on the phone including the cable card activation.

The Roamio arrives some time on August 4th stay tuned.


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

Diana Collins said:


> Interesting idea. It is less likely, given the swap out already done...unless the problem is systemic to a particular brand and model of ONT in combination with TiVo Roamios.


I guess we will never know Diana being Fios won't roll another truck and the tech that showed up never escalated his findings to the tier 2 software team as he said he would and just closed the ticket instead (according to Fios).


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## RobertTheRaven (Dec 26, 2002)

cambridgebandb said:


> My problems started sometime in early July. That the same for all of you? If so - I think FIOS made some kind of change that broke cable card or at least cable card in TiVO.
> 
> I am in Northern VA. Others?


Central NJ for me. And yes, that's when my problem started.


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## RobertTheRaven (Dec 26, 2002)

So at this time, I've tried 3 CableCARDs. CableCARD 3 worked for 1 minute before failing. A bunch of reboots, calling FIOS to repair and it's working for a bit longer now. But I know this won't last.

I called TiVo support and the tech there said that the problem is Conditional Access has code CCI 0x02 and that means that copy protection is turned on. (0x02: Copy Once - A single recording can be made, but it is not transferable. You won't be able to move the file with Multi-Room Viewing or TiVo Desktop, however you will be able to stream the content to another device through Multi-Room Streaming or TiVo Stream.)

This makes no sense to me as to why it would cause TiVo to perform the errors shown above. It would make sense to me that I couldn't stream this show to another TV or something.

I checked back on this thread, and saw people talking about ONT. I can't remember how old mine is, but it says ONT 612 on it. Which might correspond to Tellabs	1600-612.

My internet is 50 MB download. I have options for 75, 300, 500.

What do I do next?


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## RobertTheRaven (Dec 26, 2002)

I got rid of my attenuators and splitters too.

I wonder if it's worth it for me to switch to CableVision's Optimum Online and see if I have better CableCARD service with them. And then switch back or something.



JackStraw said:


> After removing all the attenuators and trouble free service the V58 and 161 reared it's ugly head about 12:30am. I was channel surfing, flipping through a few channels and then I saw the dreaded black screen. I changed the channel and it was also black. CableCard not loading. It did show the CableCard was inserted. I rebooted the Tivo and all the channels came back as usual. I'm calling it a night and see if it still works tomorrow. When the problem is not occurring I recorded 6 shows at the same time. It works fine. If I get a tech to come out I can't cause the card to fail. It fails when it wants to. How can I get him to replace the ONT. At least my streak is intact. It's never worked more than 7 days without failing and Sunday continues to be it's most popular day to malfunction. The common facts with others. Live in NJ and the problem started in late June.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

RobertTheRaven said:


> I checked back on this thread, and saw people talking about ONT. I can't remember how old mine is, but it says ONT 612 on it. Which might correspond to Tellabs	1600-612.
> 
> My internet is 50 MB download. I have options for 75, 300, 500.
> 
> What do I do next?


Hi,
Normally you should see options for 100 and 150 if you were on GPON. Apparently, they have decided that it is not worth it to offer you those 2 tiers as it would trigger or force them to upgrade you to GPON, so they want to make to make it worth their while by forcing you to go to the much higher priced 300/500 speed tiers. There have been reports of similar problems on the Verizon forums. The only thing I can think of if you want to stick with Verizon is to temporarily, one month maybe, sign up for one of those higher speed tiers. 
If you are not wanting to go that route, and don't really need the superior upload speed, just switch providers for however long. If you decide to come back later, you may then be eligible to some of those new customer deals and find you can possibly have the 100/150 tiers available then. Companies are funny sometimes, they don't want to invest in their established customers but will offer better options and prices to a "new" customer. 
The only other route is to hammer them with FCC complaints, this may eventually force them to upgrade you and their CO if necessary. 
You are basing this all on the "assumption" that the problem is directly related to an issue with some of those BPON units though.


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## RobertTheRaven (Dec 26, 2002)

fcfc2 said:


> Hi,
> You are basing this all on the "assumption" that the problem is directly related to an issue with some of those BPON units though.


So if the assumption that the problem is related to a BPON issue is incorrect, what is the real problem then?


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

RobertTheRaven said:


> So if the assumption that the problem is related to a BPON issue is incorrect, what is the real problem then?


I wish I knew and would happily share it. The thing is that in your situation right now, you have the option of hammering Verizon with FCC complaints until they decide to upgrade your ONT to get the FCC off their backs, or you need to decide if you are willing to jump up to that 300/300 tier at least temporarily to force them to upgrade your ONT to find out if those "clues" you got from that one Tech were correct, and that all of the problems are related to customers on BPON coming from that one CO.
I personally have a bit more money than patience and know what I would do, but there is still a chance there is some other unknown problem. If that turns out to be the case, your alternatives are to give up on your Tivos, or search for another provider where you can use the Tivos. 
In sum, the quickest way to determine if it is the BPON vs GPON issue would be to temporarily upgrade to the 300/300 tier and see what happens with your Tivos. If that doesn't resolve the issue....you know the alternatives.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

Wow, I got past a Sunday with no issues. If I can get by with 1-2 reboots a month I can live with it. Almost all TV shows are on demand and the premium channels repeat their shows and movies constantly. The only issue I will have is if I take a vacation or record a live sporting event like an NFL game when I'm not home. You can get a replay if you sign up for NFL package online which archive all games each season and you can watch replay immediately after game ends. What I really hope for is no more problems but I don't believe it is resolved. CableCard elimination by FCC is years away and the HBO, Cinemax, STARZ, Showtime and EPIX will not stand for any customer getting their programming for free. They want it protected. I am not knowledgeable enough about writing code but there has to be a way for cable companies to write firmware to eliminate CableCards so that a TIVO box doesn't have to rely on a method that causes all these issues. A person using a TIVO should have same reliability as someone who uses a set top box.


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

Wow never enough hours in a day.

So my 3rd Roamio arrived on August 4th. The shipping box looks a little beat up but I know the unit is well cushioned inside. I call Tivo on the 5th and after a few min of chatting with the regular tech. I hook up the Roamio with just the power HDMI and a network cable no coax or cable card at this point and start guided setup. I get to the need for a software update which takes an hour and I am told to call back. 

I am now at the Tivo central screen fully updated so I make my return call. I again chat with the regular tech who now informs me I was supposed to be transferred to the AES department. They are the "elevated" techs. Now I sit on hold while they find my case worker but apparently the guy who was handling my case was promoted (congrats) so now I regale the story yet again. (I really needed to put this on a voice recorder). We chatted about the different versions of cable cards 02,03,06 and 17. Arris vs Motorola. I explained I had them all and also had my ONT replaced. I mentioned the attenuator removal by Fios and how the unit worked for over 2 years and how Tivos last update was June 6th and the problem was on June 23rd and that my cable card firmware is 6.25

I now hook up the coax and plug in the cable card as instructed. The pairing screen appears and the AES tech says that's good. I told him we have only just begun. Now I call Fios on the home phone (I had Tivo on the cell) to pair the card. I give all the needed info and we wait. Then we are told to try it so I put in my same 6 channels. NBC, ABC, CBS, WGN, and FOOD. Here comes the black screen but I continue. Last tuner CNBC black screen. I flip back to tuner 5 (FOOD) now it says V53 problem with the signal.... back to CNBC V53 tuner 4 V53.

The Fios tech now rehits the card. I try a reboot. Channels reloaded V53 on tuners 5 and 6 as soon as they are populated. Now I ask Fios to explain after again telling the story. They say it is Tivo's software's fault but this time I tell them about the 2 week difference and Tivo is listening to the whole conversation so I say care to chime in on this Tivo? 

Tivo now says they are not aware of any wide spread issues with any of their units on the Fios service at this time. Fios then repeats themselves. I said that was a level 2 tech that just told you (Fios) there is no Tivo issue at this time. I then said we need to talk to one of your (Fios) level 2 software techs being my problem was supposed to be elevated and never was. Fios then said to me they have NO WAY to transfer the call to an elevated tech. I said well then you need to send another truck to my house or fix this problem then. After hanging up the phone with everyone the 161-17 screen appeared and the card showed as a NON M CARD.

The truck was scheduled for Monday the 8th but on Saturday the 6th I had to reschedule it for Friday the 12th. Monday morning a tech calls saying he was on his way. I had to tell him it was rescheduled. I don't have any faith in getting this cable card running if they can't even schedule their fleet properly. 

Stay Tuned


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

Now I'm scratching my head. Fios came a day early and this is the result.

Fios changed all my splitters to MOCA 2.0 standards and set my signals to acceptable levels and manually validated my cards multiple times on 2 different Roamios with the same results I have had for the last month and a half. I have now put my original Roamio back on line and I am going to make 2 service connections as it doesn't matter which box I use I get the same result but this one has all my shows and season passes. 

2 Fios techs spent 2 Hrs at my house this time and I'm starting to believe Fios when they say that issue lies in the software of the Tivo as they say the cablecard is doing its job of allowing all 6 tuners access. The issue occurs during channel changes at which time there are delays and either a channel appears or is not authorized at random. I am starting to agree with them that it is sounding like a bug in the latest Tivo software code and I am seeing it sometimes in my Premiere as well as reading about it happening to the Bolt as well in other forums.

I also notice that if I change the channels on the 6 tuners with different channels and go the the Tivo Diagnostics page to look at the signal strength of the channels. What's listed on that page are not the same as what I put in for at least a min or 2. It's as if the software is lagging on the tuner change causing the not authorized condition.

I am going to reach out to Tivo again with this new information. I also need to return the extra Roamio(s) I have. I also tried to PM TivoMargret but her mailbox is full. I also pleaded with the Fios techs that were at my house that if they can reach out to ANYONE up the ladder if for no other reason then economics (truck rolls cable card mailings etc) to coordinate the engineering departments of Fios and Tivo to come up with a solution. 

Hang in there guys well figure this out.


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## RobertTheRaven (Dec 26, 2002)

tech1029 said:


> Now I'm scratching my head. Fios came a day early and this is the result.
> 
> Fios changed all my splitters to MOCA 2.0 standards and set my signals to acceptable levels and manually validated my cards multiple times on 2 different Roamios with the same results I have had for the last month and a half. I have now put my original Roamio back on line and I am going to make 2 service connections as it doesn't matter which box I use I get the same result but this one has all my shows and season passes.
> 
> ...


Thank you for all this hard work and for sharing with us. I'll be watching this thread for more news on your situation!


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Just a crazy thought...if you go to the CableCard Diagnostics screen, and scroll down to the bottom, what is the OOB signal SNR?

I hope you get it worked out...we have 2 Roamio Pros and 5 Minis, on FiOS and when it works it is just about the best TV viewing experience I've ever had (having previously been a customer of Time Warner, Cablevision, Dish Network and DirecTV).


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## billzskillz (Aug 18, 2016)

I am having all these same issues in Hamilton Nj, have dealt with Verizon and Tivo multiple times have tried 2 different tivo bolts and 4 cable cards, also have received 4 different cable cards. Nothing seems to fix issue and fios and tivo keep pointing finger at each other, nothing more frustrating. If anyone has any results please keep informed, Thanks


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

Sorry I had to step away for a while again but I still have issues.

The last interaction I had with anyone was on Aug 12th. I figured I was going to throw in the towel and just have Tivo return everything back to the way it was before I called and I would wait until SOMEONE decided to update something and in the mean time I would just bow down to the man and take it like the obedient puppy society has made me.

Before I called I did notice though that when I change the channel on my Roamio I see the change on the screen and the info banner but I will have either a black screen or the V53 or V58 errors. If I jump to the diagnostics screen quickly after the channel change to check the signal strength etc on the channel I'll notice the channel does not appear! My tuners show the 6 channels that were on prior to the change. After about a min or two the new channel will appear. Will the others with issues pleas try this and report the findings.

I figured I would call Tivo on the morning of the 12th and report my findings to the AES department so I asked the tech who answered the phone to be transferred to them. Apparently Tivo has heard enough from me at this point because my transfer was intercepted by Alex a supervisor. I tried to explain my findings to Alex and he assured me the issue is with Fios and not Tivo. I questioned 7 cable cards new wiring new ONT new MOCA certified splitters and a signal within Tivo specs? His response was it's not Tivo. I asked him how am I supposed to convince Fios of that fact because they insist it is not them. He says he can send me diagnostic proof for Fios to see. I inquired if it is more then what I see on my screen and he said it was. I told him he should send it directly to Fios but of course that wont happen so I asked him to send it to me. I'm still waiting for it. I also questioned Alex's technical abilities or if he is just a supervisor (we all worked with them I'm sure) but he said he was promoted up from the ranks.

Being that he insisted it was Fios I figured I might as well just put everthing back the way it was and return the 2 extra Roamio's I have under the warranty because TIVO originally said my card slot may be bad. I asked Alex if I can return the 2 sent to me and put the lifetime back on my original box being all my saved programs and passes are on it. He said that should't be a problem. I then asked him I can get my warranty returned back to where it was when I called being there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the unit and I had 8 months left on it when they used it. He said no because once we send you a box it uses the warranty (is seems more like a life insurance to me). I told him but that was Tivo's call not mine and it was wrong. I then ask if I could repurchase another warranty. He said no the box is to old (over 90 days). My only choice is to warrant one of the boxes sent during the last month and transfer all my passes and programs except the copy protected ones. Not to mention move the cable card again which has been working okay except for FX up until the 15th when all hell broke loose again including a reboot. I told him don't do anything and I'll call back when I make a decision

On the 16th I noticed something strange after a spontaneous reboot. I put in channel 506 ABC in tuner 1 and 516 CW in tuner 2 the rest of the tuners had 569 AXS from the reboot in them. Just for ****s and giggles I wanted to check the pairing screen I was on 569 at the time. I was showing a ? under VAL but what was really strange was the line marked ActivePrg <2> 3 4 5 what happened to 0 and 1 which would be 506 and 516? This was my readings at the time in Diagnostics tuner 0 channel 506 strength 91% SNR 36 db tuner 1 516 88 and 35 tuners 2 through 5 569 89 and 35 OOB snr 25.

I changed tuner 3 to 568 WGN and the cable card failed to load after that.

Stay tuned


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## billzskillz (Aug 18, 2016)

Tech, yes I am in the same Hamilton as you


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## RobertTheRaven (Dec 26, 2002)

billzskillz said:


> Tech, yes I am in the same Hamilton as you


So Hamilton FIOS is broken with TiVo. Sigh. Seems like we should all get together and commiserate. 

I guess there's no reason to buy a new Bolt when they come out. Maybe we need to switch to Optimum


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

v53 paid a visit to me at about 7pm tonight. First reboot without removing the Card failed.
The second I unplugged, removed the Card and reinserted and it worked. I checked my Network connection and it said can't test till 2am software update. Does this mean that TIVO is updating my software or is TIVO updating theirs. It would be nice if there was software fix for the CableCard issues. I was expecting another failure. Over two weeks of trouble free service was more than I expected. If this was a widespread problem FIOS would have straightened it out but for 3 or 4 subscribers in NJ it's a waste of manpower.


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## billzskillz (Aug 18, 2016)

Ok update, I had a tech that came out that was more specialized in tivos then previous techs. He took all attenuators off of cable, and had signal at approx 0db going into Tivo. Also changed out and put in new cable card. Seemed to be working fine for a little bit. Channel would come in delayed, but come in. Not seeming to get v58 error but just a black screen now. And pretty sporadically. Wondering if i really am getting that many bad cable cards? Im doubting it. are any of you receiving just a black screen when tuned to channel with no error? Also seems to mainly happen when scrolling through my channels, and seems to eventually come in if left on that channel for a certain amount of time (not always)


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

billzskillz said:


> Ok update, I had a tech that came out that was more specialized in tivos then previous techs. He took all attenuators off of cable, and had signal at approx 0db going into Tivo. Also changed out and put in new cable card. Seemed to be working fine for a little bit. Channel would come in delayed, but come in. Not seeming to get v58 error but just a black screen now. And pretty sporadically. Wondering if i really am getting that many bad cable cards? Im doubting it. are any of you receiving just a black screen when tuned to channel with no error? Also seems to mainly happen when scrolling through my channels, and seems to eventually come in if left on that channel for a certain amount of time (not always)


Do I understand that all of you guys having this issue are in the same relatively small area of Jersey? Do you all have BPON ONT's too? 
If so, it sounds like that one tech's suggestion that this is possibly a local CO issue with it's BPON ONT's. 
If the above is accurate, I would try to force the issue by at least temporarily going to whatever the next speed tier is that should trigger getting an ONT upgrade to a GPON unit, 100/100 and up. If the problem then goes away you know that one tech was right, and then just drop down your speed tier later.


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## billzskillz (Aug 18, 2016)

Update: tech returned in afternoon and installed gpon unit, seems to be ok atm, but could change at any moment will keep you posted


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## RobertTheRaven (Dec 26, 2002)

billzskillz said:


> Update: tech returned in afternoon and installed gpon unit, seems to be ok atm, but could change at any moment will keep you posted


Interesting... I hope it keeps up. Maybe we need tech1029 to tell you exactly what to do to break it. tech1029 can break it on command.


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

billzskillz said:


> Update: tech returned in afternoon and installed gpon unit, seems to be ok atm, but could change at any moment will keep you posted


Okay Billz how did you manage to get them to do that? They changed my ONT but I just ended up with a new 612.

I would like to start a little poll. Just Fios users with Tivos please. I need to get to the bottom of this issue but Billz may have already solved it.

Please list your location Tivo model ONT model and router model and firmware version and if you are having the V58 issue. Try to follow my format.

Hamilton Township (Mercer County) NJ Tivo Roamio plus ONT 612 Actiontech MI424WR Rev I firmware 40.19.22 V58 issue started June 24th


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

tech1029 said:


> Okay Billz how did you manage to get them to do that? They changed my ONT but I just ended up with a new 612.
> 
> I would like to start a little poll. Just Fios users with Tivos please. I need to get to the bottom of this issue but Billz may have already solved it.
> 
> ...


That's going to be difficult to accomplish. I installed Verizon in May and don't know the model of my ONT, other than it is a GPON, small black little device...

It is installed outside the house in an enclosure that I am uncomfortable messing with


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## billzskillz (Aug 18, 2016)

I'm guessing by putting enough calls for techs to come out, they finally sent someone that was a more specialized tech in that area of cable cards and was very knowledgeable. He gave me his number and said if problem continues give him a call. Gave him a call and he suggested changing it out. Still seems to be OK, but haven't watched enough TV to be 100% confident still


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

Failure again in Voorhees. I was the recording the following programs at the same time. Six different channels. NBC Olympics final ceremony, TNT The Last Ship, Showtime Ray Donovan, Epix Creed, HBO The Night Of, Starz Power. Recordings were spread over 7pm-10pm. Recordings stop at 9:46 and 9:49. Strangely, though I haven't watched the entire ceremony the Olympics recorded in it's entirety. One of the programs I tried to watch and the screen was black. TIVO showed a partial recording but there was nothing there. The others all worked but stopped at the time of the partial. At 10pm the channels fixed themselves. I wasn't home but a 10pm recording was completely recorded. When I came home all the channels worked. I tuned into a new recording in progress, Fear The Walking Dead. No problem. After the show I decided to check the premium channels. I was re-recording one of my shows from earlier. After checking a few of the channels they all went black and I got a V58. I ended the recording on the new show and I FF to the eighteen minute mark. Even the though the V58 occurred the channel it was recording was still working. I deleted the recording because I was forced to reboot to get the channels back. I did my usual, unplug the TIVO, pull the CableCard and service was restored.

As I stated before I am nearing the end and ready to dump FIOS. I just can't deal with this anymore. I still can't figure out why the problems occur mostly on Sundays. Almost always between 8-11pm. Is it a spike. Is FIOS doing testing on Sunday nights. Why are almost all the people who report the problem on the board in the Hamilton-Trenton area, yet I live in Voorhees in Camden County


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

billzskillz said:


> Ok update, I had a tech that came out that was more specialized in tivos then previous techs. He took all attenuators off of cable, and had signal at approx 0db going into Tivo. Also changed out and put in new cable card. Seemed to be working fine for a little bit. Channel would come in delayed, but come in. Not seeming to get v58 error but just a black screen now. And pretty sporadically. Wondering if i really am getting that many bad cable cards? Im doubting it. are any of you receiving just a black screen when tuned to channel with no error? Also seems to mainly happen when scrolling through my channels, and seems to eventually come in if left on that channel for a certain amount of time (not always)


Scrolling the channels definitely causes the card to time out. I am a movie buff of sorts and scrolling the channels reminds me of the scene from the movie Fail-Safe made in the sixties where the Sargent played by Dom Deluise gives the Russians the information to take down our bombers which were sent by mistake. By sending out a signal of different frequencies it would cause the H-Bombs in the plane to detonate thereby blowing up and destroying the planes. Scrolling on the TIVO does the same thing it causes different frequencies to be generated overloading the CableCard and in effect blowing it up. Really the whole thing is pathetic and it angers me the more I think about it.


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

Jack please re-read my post about taking a poll. I think the Hamilton part is just a coincidence. I'm starting to think it's ONT related. This is why I'd like to know who is working or not and what model ONT is on their wall.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

It looks similar to the Tellabs 1600. But it says Motorola on the front cover.
Actiontec 424WR Rev 1, TIVO Roamio Pro


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

Failure again this afternoon. Recorded a couple of show before 2pm without incident. Turned on TV channel TIVO was tuned to was on, as soon as I switched to other channels
V53, black screen. Checked TIVO diagnostics. One tuner at 89% 35 db, other tuners were 100% 40 or 41db. No attenuators. They caused more problems. Don't know how many hours I will get after reboot.


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## billzskillz (Aug 18, 2016)

So everything seemed to be good for a couple days, now I'm getting black screens again, surprisingly haven't been receiving v53. Channels seem to be black for a while then eventually come in


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

Bill when you do a channel change as quick as you can go to the Tivo diagnostics page where you check the signal strength and see if any of your tuners show the channel change had occurred. When I do it my change doesn't show for at least 30 seconds on the local channels and 2 minutes on the "basic" channels (FX FOOD TNT etc). 

I am now V58 on all channels until the delay passes but the locals are all that are authorized to stay. I've been to busy this week to call about it though. 

Today August 23 marks exactly 2 months I've been dealing with this issue! My sister just forwarded me an email about the new service charge if you are using an Actiontech router below revision I. They will sell you a used one or a new quantum one. $$$


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## RobertTheRaven (Dec 26, 2002)

I already called and complained about the router charge. I don't need to pay for them to "maintain" a router that does its job. What "maintenance" am I paying for anyway? I didn't pay any maintenance in the past for them to do nothing, so what am I paying now? I need it to translate Cable to Ethernet. It does that. I don't have cable boxes so I don't need any of that functionality the new routers theoretically provide. If I want faster Internet, I understand at some point I'd need a new router. The Actiontech model D I have, is located in the basement. I already added a switch and bought a regular wireless router for the living room - where I do most of my internet stuff. So really... just a money grab.

In theory, my account was marked to not surcharge me. I had to get tech support to talk to billing... We'll see if it works or not.



tech1029 said:


> Bill when you do a channel change as quick as you can go to the Tivo diagnostics page where you check the signal strength and see if any of your tuners show the channel change had occurred. When I do it my change doesn't show for at least 30 seconds on the local channels and 2 minutes on the "basic" channels (FX FOOD TNT etc).
> 
> I am now V58 on all channels until the delay passes but the locals are all that are authorized to stay. I've been to busy this week to call about it though.
> 
> Today August 23 marks exactly 2 months I've been dealing with this issue! My sister just forwarded me an email about the new service charge if you are using an Actiontech router below revision I. They will sell you a used one or a new quantum one. $$$


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## billzskillz (Aug 18, 2016)

Out of curiosity, which cable packages are you receiving? I had basic cable package and for a period was receiving channels I shouldn't have been, wondering if that somehow is part of problem?


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

My cable package is the "Extreme" Package and 50/50 internet. I have had it since Feb 2008. I'm not sure it's even still available. It is almost every "basic" channel except for a few higher end sports channels. They just upped my internet speed a few years ago from 15/5 and had to replace my router with a Rev I (lucky me).

I just found this post in the help forum about how the "Winter" update broke a bunch of cable cards. I wonder if we are reliving the nightmare?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=535013

The post talked about letting Tivo Sarah know. I PM'ed her to have her pop in on this forum to see if she may have some input.


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

I guess it's time to call this the final chapter.

I'm not sure if anyone else is still having issues but I am. I called Tivo back on the 30th and today Sept 1st. I made 2 connections to make sure I had sent as much information to Tivo's servers before I made my call to support. I wanted to talk to someone to find out about getting a copy of the Diagnostics to send to Fios I was promised by Alex 2 weeks ago. I had to explain the whole story again to a new tech on the phone. It seem like every time you call you have to recant the whole story all over again even though you give them the case number from the last call. They want to write everything down that you say then read the previous case? 

When this project first started in late June it seemed when ever I called Tivo the same few techs answered the phone because I remember saying more then once "I talked to you the other day". Now it seems I speak to someone new every time. It also seems that the tech says he will be transferring me to the AES department and the call is always intercepted by Alex (a supervisor). This last call Alex just e-mailed me the same troubleshooting documents that can be viewed on the Tivo web site. When I told the tech that is not what I was expecting he stated Alex remembered speaking to me 2 weeks ago but has no "diagnostic" document he can send then the phone went quiet. Of course Alex never got on the phone to tell me this. That's okay though I'll have to call them back any way they double billed my warranty for the new Roamio. 

I was hoping to be able to talk to someone to also let them know that after watching a recorded show and when it finishes and it ask if you want to keep or delete. I pick delete but instead of going back to the list of programs it returns back to the deleted program and the word play or resume is highlighted. Anyone else have this issue?

I guess Tivo Margret and Tivo Sarah either never stopped in to this forum or chose to ignore it. Perhaps it's not a wide enough problem even if it may or may not be a Fios issue. 

I have been with Tivo since Series 2 which I still own. I also have a Series 3 HD and a Premier XL along with my Roamio plus and Mini all with lifetime service. I have also been with Fios since it has been available in my neighborhood Feb 2008. I am embarrassed as to how this issue has progressed. If I could afford it I would put the whole kit and caboodle on the curb. It's scary what this country has come to where no one will take pride in their work any more. Give me back my analog signal and an antenna and a VCR. Sure a digital picture looks great but if no one knows how to fix it when it's broken and script kiddies are going to keep answering the phone then is technology all it's cracked up to be. 

I apologize if I offended anyone with my rants in this post but I'm going to assume there may be a few people (possibly in my town) who feel my pain.

This is Tech1029 signing o.....V58 Not authorized


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Time for a re-read of 'Foundation.'


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

Since my last post on 8/22 no issues. Really shocked that I got past a Sunday without a problem. This is not to say that I don't expect v53 and v58 again. I always check this thread in hoping that either Tivo or FIOS have resolved the problem or have come up with a solution.


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## RobertTheRaven (Dec 26, 2002)

JackStraw said:


> Since my last post on 8/22 no issues. Really shocked that I got past a Sunday without a problem. This is not to say that I don't expect v53 and v58 again. I always check this thread in hoping that either Tivo or FIOS have resolved the problem or have come up with a solution.


I have a reliable failure every Friday when I record 2 hours of Syfy, overlapping a few minutes, but as separate shows. If someone is watching TV, it'll break even before the time when 2 tuners need to use the same channel. And if no one is watching, it'll often break the 2nd recording.

Still annoying. I guess I'm going to have to write letters now to everyone.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

tech1029 said:


> I guess it's time to call this the final chapter.
> 
> I'm not sure if anyone else is still having issues but I am. I called Tivo back on the 30th and today Sept 1st. I made 2 connections to make sure I had sent as much information to Tivo's servers before I made my call to support. I wanted to talk to someone to find out about getting a copy of the Diagnostics to send to Fios I was promised by Alex 2 weeks ago. I had to explain the whole story again to a new tech on the phone. It seem like every time you call you have to recant the whole story all over again even though you give them the case number from the last call. They want to write everything down that you say then read the previous case?
> 
> ...


Did you try different attenuation levels. You might need to go higher or lower to dial it in. I'm using a 6dB attenuator on my Roamio Pro. After coming off an 8-way splitter connected to my ONT.


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## theitguy (May 11, 2016)

OMG, not happy i found this thread...........because i am living this now!


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## RobertTheRaven (Dec 26, 2002)

theitguy said:


> OMG, not happy i found this thread...........because i am living this now!


Welcome to the cl<This channel is not authorized>


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

RobertTheRaven said:


> Welcome to the cl<This channel is not authorized>


... Or nightmare on V58 street.... 😄😄😄


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

The last time I had a CC issue, which was caused by the tech in chat screwing things up. I just ordered new cards and picked them up from the FIOS store. Much easier than trouble shooting the existing cards.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

It was too good to last. Problems all day with CableCard. And once again it's on a Sunday.
Please no more saying it's a coincidence and that FIOS doesn't send out authentication codes on Sunday. I know I have had problems other days but because the majority of them happen on Sunday it just can't be fluke. Also don't tell me that FIOS signal is stronger on Sunday and that keeps creating problems for the card. As I have posted before the attenuators actually makes things worse. 

The problems started Sunday morning. I recorded an 8:30am program on ESPN. I then recorded a 10:00am program on ESPN. The 8:30am program was a scheduled 30 minute recording and it started recording at 8:33am. I thought that was strange and then the 10:00am program started recording at 10:03am. I know why this happening. The tuner is locking into the channel and it obviously is in v53 or v58 mode. After three minutes the tuner finally gets the signal. I can watch any channel when I get the error messages if I stay tuned to that channel as the picture will eventually come on. When you tune to another channel the picture is black and if you go back to the original channel you have to wait three minutes again. The TiVo resolved the issue because the 11am program on ESPN recorded in it's entirety. While watching a recorded program about 2:15pm I started getting the 161 messages again. I was recording an NFL game and the Red Zone channel. I was really angry because I knew I was going to lose part of the game. I am never sure if I'm recording an image or a black screen. I did several reboots because the message kept coming back. Strangely the NFL game did record in it's entirety after the reboot even with the message. About 4:30pm the messages came back. This time it stopped recording a third program after 5 minutes yet was recording the other two programs.

I just can't believe this garbage. I stopped my recordings and once again rebooted. Now I am only recording one program. I have numerous recordings set up tonight to record several shows at the same time. I will be using 5 tuners at a certain point. I expect a failure as I will be watching a show a few minutes delayed while I'm recording. That almost always causes a failure. 

I know I said it before but I'm just about done with TiVo. What's the point. For those of us who these issues they can't resolve them. I'm not wasting time get ting a new ONT, getting another CableCard or sending my TiVo back for a replacement when it's obvious this is a firmware or software problem that can't be solved by either FIOS or TiVo.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I'm currently using three cable cards from FiOS in TiVos. At one point I used eight cable cards from FiOS. The Current three are working great in two Bolts and a Roamio Pro. Over the last nine years of using cable cards on FiOS, any issues I had were caused by human error. The techs/csr screwing the cable card up in their computer system.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

aaronwt said:


> I'm currently using three cable cards from FiOS in TiVos. At one point I used eight cable cards from FiOS. The Current three are working great in two Bolts and a Roamio Pro. Over the last nine years of using cable cards on FiOS, any issues I had were caused by human error. The techs/csr screwing the cable card up in their computer system.


Same experiences with Comcast and TWC ever since cablecards came out. 99.9% always human error!


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

I just got back from vacation and I was hoping this nightmare had ended by now. I guess not. Pretty much all my channels on the Roamio are V58 now and now the Premeir XL takes 4 min to complete a channel change. When you switch the channel and jump to the Diagnostics screen you can see the previous channel remain for 2 to 3 min then it will change to the new channel. If you exit to live TV you will still see the new channel is still black screen but now has a V53 error then 1 to 2 min later the channel will appear. The Premier also now shows cable card failed.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

In honor of CableCard failures on Sunday I have changed the lyrics to the former NBC Sunday Night Football song.

All right Sunday Night where are you? Just kicking back from the things that you do You want V58, we want it too! Hey Jack it's a fact, the best unpairing in town, Sunday Night Failure we ain't messing around TiVo and FIOS will make you crank up the sound ... The TiVo's worst techs have come to play For every fan there's just one thing left to say, ay, ay, ay ... I've been waiting all day for Sunday Night The tough get rough in a primetime fight The last one standing gets to reboot the box Cause I been waiting all day for Sunday Night Sunday Night Failure on my TV The only game that you won't see Don't need a ticket, all you need is a working TV Cause the TiVo fails on NBC


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

That's priceless! Is this like one of the 7 stages? This one being the humor stage? It is true to because I was able to record Blindspot and Master Chef perfectly this week albeit on network TV. My recording of Cutthroat Kitchen was only 12 minutes long though.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

With the problems you guys are having, I am surprised you haven't thrown the towel yet on TiVo ...


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

Like clockwork or Peyton on Sunday Morning my card went out at 10:07 pm. I was watching a previously recorded show while recording on 4 other tuners. I had partial recordings on two of the tuners even though it said they were still recording. The other two tuners were recording and the TiVo could tune into those channels where I had a picture on both. All the other channels were V58. The cable card was shown as inserted and the issue as usual was failure to load. The early sign a failure was there. An 8pm 30 minute show only recorded for 29 minutes. The 9pm shows recorded properly though on one of them for length it said 10hr and 52minutes. Don't know what that meant. I just put TiVo in standby and rebooted, all the channels came back.

Another question to ask is recording 4 shows and watching another causing the overload. If that was the case why did the 8pm show only record 29 minutes when at that time I was only recording one other show while watching another. I can experiment during the week and set 4 or 5 simultaneous recordings to see it will fail. I doubt it will.

I still think FIOS is sending out CableCard verification code on Sundays. As I mentioned before they will never admit it for security reasons. DirectTV cards used to be hacked and DirectTV would send out a signal from their satellite to burn the cards and make them unusable. Authorized cards were left unscathed. Why wouldn't FIOS want to protect their interests. If someone subscribed to a basic package and was able to hack the card to get premium channels and PPV movies it would cost $150-$200 on each card in revenue. Sunday is probably the most popular night to watch TV. You have Sunday Night Football and all the premium channels premiere their weekly series. GOT, Ray Donovan. The Walking Dead is on Sunday night. It's a perfect day or night to zap cards. It's no longer a coincidence. Until someone in a high position at Verizon will categorically dispute my theory I will remain convinced that this is occurring. 

By the way last Sunday after I had the problem in the afternoon. I had no problem in the evening when I was recording multiple shows. The only commonality is Sunday. Can anyone please give me an alternative theory for Sunday. Your going to tell me that I only get voltage surges on Sunday or that the card will work fine for two weeks at a time. I should have issues everyday.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

Got past this Sunday with no problem but Monday had some issues. Three incomplete recordings. What's weird is they all ended at different times. One recording ended showed partial recording of 59 minutes on an hour recording. Another ended 55 minutes on an hour recording. The other was a two hour movie that showed a partial recording at 1:35 which meant it stopped 25 minutes before end. It's so strange that signal unlocks and then repairs itself at varying times. Normally this precludes CableCard failure like it did the Sunday before. I'm sure these issues will continue until I decide to dump the TiVo and FIOS entirely. If only the unit and card would just fail where a tech could come out and see what the problem is. It's the exact reason why the issue can't be resolved. An intermittent failure which can be fixed by the rebooting of the box can't be replicated. 

How do you design a box that is so sensitive to signal strength. Using any attenuators causes increased instances of CableCard failure. I still have to believe that TiVo's programmers are preparing a software update sometime in the future that caused this mess in first place. Unfortunately if that update comes it's probably at least six months to a year away.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I've been using an 8 way splitter from my ONT since 2007. With my Roamio Pro I've been using 6db attenuator which has worked well with it for the last 16 months.


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

I have moved my complaint / monitoring to the source. Directly to the Tivo website. They also have a user forum that may or may not be better monitored by someone at Tivo who may be willing to help or at least reach out with a comment of awareness. There are already a few threads about this issue but I have jumped in on this one and encourage others with this issue to do the same.

https://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/f...D=11292120&portalPageId=10432560&channelID=10


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

For some reason out of the blue Tivo sent me a survey asking me how my support call went. Strange thing is I haven't talked to Tivo in at least 3 weeks.

Well now I have the bug to make phone calls again after watching the forums both here and at Tivo.com. BTW I notice the random post from other cable providers with V58 complaints popping up now and then.

So I called Fios for a rehit on my cablecard today only to have the agent never ask for anything other then the serial number on the card even though I requested she do a manual validation. She said she was going to deauthorize and reauthorize the card. 

Next I called Tivo I tried to explain how I was experiencing slow channel changes where I see the change in the banner but it would take 2 - 3 min to see the change in the diagnostics screen. I also told her my cable card disappears from the diagnostics screen every 300 seconds. I recanted the whole story as I always do when I call. Multiple cards tech visits rewired etc. 

When she asked me "Who is your Fios provider"? I knew where this phone call was going to end up. She then asked me to force 2 connections and reboot so I started the process. She then put me on hold while she conferred with someone. When she returned she asked me the status of the forced connections I told her it was still on the first connection preparing to load. 

For those that don't know the 2 forced connections are done to send the latest diagnostic information home to Tivo. The first connection loads the info I believe and the second one sends it. IMHO.

So even though I had not completed the first of 2 connections she proceeded to tell me she saw no problems in the diagnostics but went on to ask if a was using attenuators (she didn't know how to pronounce attenuator I felt that was strange for a "tech support representative"). When I told her I was because I was told (By Tivo) that they were needed. She said they need to be removed because they are blocking the signal. She went on to recommend that I have the cable company come in and remove them and possibly adjust the signal coming out of the ONT as it may be to weak. She never even asked what my numbers were which are 90% SS and 37 DB SNR and my OOB is 26 DB 

I have come to the conclusion that Tivo has not only merged but has sold out. When this problem started 3 months ago the techs on the phone at least knew what they were talking about now the phone is being answered by script kiddies that wouldn't know a TosLink from a Linksys. 

After throwing her a few choice words I hung up and got ready to go to work and an hour later I was still preparing to load the first forced connection. Later this evening I received another survey for todays call. Needless to say she did not score well. I still think Tivo's software is not playing well with Fios I cant believe Fios is 100% to blame in all this because the Tivo is not allowing the card to pair.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

Second failure this week. I am done. Switching to Verizon FIOS DVR. Today was the last straw. I was watch an a recording NFL pregame show before watching the NFL Red Zone which I was recording at the same time. 22 minutes into the Red Zone I get the 161-17 message. Usual CableCard failure to load. It went from M card inserted to Non M card inserted to no card inserted. Rebooting this time didn't work. I even had to reboot my router as the TiVo disconnected itself from the network connection. Rebooting the router solved the network connection. Tried an automated reboot calling FIOS didn't work. Spoke to an agent did a reset. Had to reboot the TiVo. The channels were working again until I went to the Red Zone and hit the record button on the remote. The CableCard failed again.
Right now only channel I can watch is the Red Zone. If I go to the other channels I get the V58. M card shows inserted but all the card diagnostic screens show failure. 

What's the use. I knew it was going to come to this. I am going to order FIOS Quantum tomorrow. It's actually going to increase my cable bill. Currently I have FIOS set top box in my bedroom and the TiVo in my living room. I pay $19.95 for the set top box per month and $4.95 for the CableCard. Quantum service is $30 a month and another $20 for the boxes. So $25 will be coming off but $50 will be coming on. It's ridiculous.


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

I don't plan on falling for their trap. I have a bunch of recordings scheduled for this week. If they don't work I'm going to either call the FCC or the Action News call for action line. For the non locals that's our local news channels help line. If none of that works then Cablevision has been beating down my door to come back. Maybe I'll see if their cablecards work any better. So long as they buy out my Fios contract.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

Ok, This is crazy. I decided to experiment again with some attenuators. Every time I remove the cable connection and then reconnect to TiVo it restores the CableCard without rebooting. I switched to several channels and I get picture on all them. As soon as I go to the NFL Red Zone Channel it tunes in but when I switch back to the other channels I get a CableCard failure. Every premium channel works when I don't tune into the Red Zone. The Red Zone channel is unloading the CableCard. It doesn't make sense. As long as I avoid the Red Zone the TiVo works. What is going on!!!! I do notice a slight delay when I tune into the Red Zone channel, it's less than a second. It's almost like the channel is looking for kind of authorization. When you call up Verizon they have some message about the Red Zone. They definitely have changed it's tier again. How exactly does it affect the card.
I am going to do an experiment. I am going to move the TiVo to my bedroom to see if there is some issue with cable. Might as well try these things before I order the Quantum service. They are all longshots but if the TiVo didn't fail in my bedroom that would answer all questions. It would mean I would only have to have Verizon replace a cable. Got nothing to lose at this point.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

JackStraw said:


> Ok, This is crazy. I decided to experiment again with some attenuators. Every time I remove the cable connection and then reconnect to TiVo it restores the CableCard without rebooting. I switched to several channels and I get picture on all them. As soon as I go to the NFL Red Zone Channel it tunes in but when I switch back to the other channels I get a CableCard failure. Every premium channel works when I don't tune into the Red Zone. The Red Zone channel is unloading the CableCard. It doesn't make sense. As long as I avoid the Red Zone the TiVo works. What is going on!!!! I do notice a slight delay when I tune into the Red Zone channel, it's less than a second. It's almost like the channel is looking for kind of authorization. When you call up Verizon they have some message about the Red Zone. They definitely have changed it's tier again. How exactly does it affect the card.
> I am going to do an experiment. I am going to move the TiVo to my bedroom to see if there is some issue with cable. Might as well try these things before I order the Quantum service. They are all longshots but if the TiVo didn't fail in my bedroom that would answer all questions. It would mean I would only have to have Verizon replace a cable. Got nothing to lose at this point.


That may be just a coincidence. RedZone tiers have not changed. The only way to get that channel is with Ultimate top package, or via the $12 a month Sport Pass. I do the latter, and have no issues with my Bolt+.

I apologize if you already posted this, but have you exchanged tivo ? Sometimes the issue can be with TiVo, and your may have issues. I know you have tested multiple CableCards.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

thyname said:


> That may be just a coincidence. RedZone tiers have not changed. The only way to get that channel is with Ultimate top package, or via the $12 a month Sport Pass. I do the latter, and have no issues with my Bolt+.
> 
> I apologize if you already posted this, but have you exchanged tivo ? Sometimes the issue can be with TiVo, and your may have issues. I know you have tested multiple CableCards.


No, I haven't exchanged TiVo because It is 75% filled with shows and movies that I would like to watch. I'm not uploading them to my computer. I doubt the TiVo is the issue other members have exchanged their TiVo's and have the same result.

Now that I hooked the TiVo to a different cable I'm still having the same issues. The Red Zone is definitely causing the TiVo to become unpaired. I go back and forth with any number of channels and everything works fine. I go to the Red Zone it tunes in again with a slight delay and all the other channels are black and the card isn't loading. I disconnect and reconnect the cable and all the channels come back on. As long as I stay off the Red Zone the TiVo works. I have the Ultimate package with every premium channels so that's not the issue. My TiVo will come unpaired other times but this is definitely the main culprit today. This is as bizarre as it gets. Maybe the Red Zone channel is a stronger signal but putting on a 20db attenuator and knocking the signal down to 85% strength and 35db didn't help. Look where they put the Red Zone on the channel map. It's surrounded by PPV channels. Why isn't in the sports bracket with the NHL, NBA, MLB and NFL Networks. It's placed there because it's an extra cost channel that's only included with the Ultimate package. This means it requires some extra code to unlock. I speculate that code plays havoc with the CableCard at least in my situation.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

I just rebooted my Verizon STB. This is interesting and I have seen it before. When you tune to the Red Zone Channel it says. This channel is included in your package and you are authorized to watch it at no additional charge. You then have to press a button on the remote to watch the channel. There are no other channels like this. All the movie channels just come on after a reboot. Only the Red Zone channel requires action. It behaves like a PPV where you are authorizing your box to receive and pay for channel. It is obvious what is happening, at least on my TiVo. Even though the TiVo tunes into the channel with no problem the CableCard is receiving some code that somehow un-pairs it with the card. I am not a programmer or engineer but this is the only logical explanation. Why would Verizon require you to authorize a channel that is paid for with your package. It doesn't do this with HBO, EPIX, or Showtime. They have some weird requirement to put the channel on the PPV tier. I remember when they moved it there. Subscribers were complaining they were paying for a channel they didn't watch.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

Recorded all programs this evening without incident even 5 shows at same time. I was using my Verizon STB and let my TiVo record without watching any programs on it or changing any channels. It doesn't matter, though. I know the card is too sensitive to any kind of demand and will fail at any time. The Verizon box has horrid software as I used for a night of watching some shows I recorded on it. Deleting a program is a two step process. The saved show menu is clearly inferior to TiVo. No commercial skip, only a 15 second advance button. It's sluggish. If you try to move through through the On-Demand menu quickly it can freeze until the command catches up to the software. The On-Demand catalog is it's saving grace. Every network series is available On-Demand. You never have to record anything. I know you can watch all these shows on a computer but having them available on the box is a big deal. I see why so many people don't bother with TiVo because the On-Demand is important to them. I have a much smaller TV in my bedroom so I never used the STB much except as a back-up when I was having problems with TiVo

I know a few years TiVo partnered with some cable companies to make their boxes. They had a deal with DirectTV and then they wanted to make their own boxes. Then you had the copyright lawsuits. I could never figure out other than greed why all cable companies didn't partner with TiVo. There would never be a need for CableCards. With investment and innovation they could have created boxes like what DISH uses. It would have worked but money always get in the way of everything. Look at the partnership of XM and Sirius. It worked well even if it was a matter of survival. Instead what you have is crappy cable boxes and TiVo struggling to stay in existence.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

JackStraw said:


> Recorded all programs this evening without incident even 5 shows at same time. I was using my Verizon STB and let my TiVo record without watching any programs on it or changing any channels. It doesn't matter, though. I know the card is too sensitive to any kind of demand and will fail at any time. The Verizon box has horrid software as I used for a night of watching some shows I recorded on it. Deleting a program is a two step process. The saved show menu is clearly inferior to TiVo. No commercial skip, only a 15 second advance button. It's sluggish. If you try to move through through the On-Demand menu quickly it can freeze until the command catches up to the software. The On-Demand catalog is it's saving grace. Every network series is available On-Demand. You never have to record anything. I know you can watch all these shows on a computer but having them available on the box is a big deal. I see why so many people don't bother with TiVo because the On-Demand is important to them. I have a much smaller TV in my bedroom so I never used the STB much except as a back-up when I was having problems with TiVo
> 
> I know a few years TiVo partnered with some cable companies to make their boxes. They had a deal with DirectTV and then they wanted to make their own boxes. Then you had the copyright lawsuits. I could never figure out other than greed why all cable companies didn't partner with TiVo. There would never be a need for CableCards. With investment and innovation they could have created boxes like what DISH uses. It would have worked but money always get in the way of everything. Look at the partnership of XM and Sirius. It worked well even if it was a matter of survival. Instead what you have is crappy cable boxes and TiVo struggling to stay in existence.


The problem is when On Demand forces you to watch commercials or prevents you from fast forwarding. Othewrwise it would be a good deal. I know several people that had fully embraced VOD until they started running into more programs that they couldn't skip commercials or FF. So now they are back to recording more content.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

Didn't realize how bad FIOS remote is compared to TiVo. No slow motion, No commercial skip except the 30 second jump. You can vary the time of the jump if you want. It is fast. I also miss the new feature where you can replay an event 30% faster with the audio still be ing understandable. Helps when replaying a football game or news show. And as the previous post has stated On Demand without FF is no bargain. You have to watch the commercials. Is it good for HBO and Showtime series if you don't want to record them. I had TiVo record a movie last night which I previously scheduled. It recorded the whole movie but when I turned on the TV in my bedroom last night. Once again the TiVo was showing V58. It timed out sometime after the movie was recorded. I tried disconnecting the cable as I had did over the weekend. It didn't restore the TiVo. I had to do a full reboot again. 

I still haven't ordered the Quantum. I just hate to give up on TiVo. This is so depressing. It's like out of hundred of thousands of subs a small handful of people have these issues which can't be resolved. Not to make the comparison because one is life threatening but this is the equivalent of an Orphan drug. The big drug companies don't want to get involved because it only helps a few people. In this case FIOS and TiVo really don't care because it only affects a few subs. It's too costly to put a programmer on it to debug the software and firmware. Don't know how much Verizon will charge me to send a tech out. The only good thing is I think I can force the TiVo to un-pair by switching to the Red Zone channel. It's probably a waste of time but at least I can give up without leaving a stone unturned.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

JackStraw said:


> Didn't realize how bad FIOS remote is compared to TiVo. No slow motion, No commercial skip except the 30 second jump. You can vary the time of the jump if you want. It is fast. I also miss the new feature where you can replay an event 30% faster with the audio still be ing understandable. Helps when replaying a football game or news show. And as the previous post has stated On Demand without FF is no bargain. You have to watch the commercials. Is it good for HBO and Showtime series if you don't want to record them. I had TiVo record a movie last night which I previously scheduled. It recorded the whole movie but when I turned on the TV in my bedroom last night. Once again the TiVo was showing V58. It timed out sometime after the movie was recorded. I tried disconnecting the cable as I had did over the weekend. It didn't restore the TiVo. I had to do a full reboot again.
> 
> I still haven't ordered the Quantum. I just hate to give up on TiVo. This is so depressing. It's like out of hundred of thousands of subs a small handful of people have these issues which can't be resolved. Not to make the comparison because one is life threatening but this is the equivalent of an Orphan drug. The big drug companies don't want to get involved because it only helps a few people. In this case FIOS and TiVo really don't care because it only affects a few subs. It's too costly to put a programmer on it to debug the software and firmware. Don't know how much Verizon will charge me to send a tech out. The only good thing is I think I can force the TiVo to un-pair by switching to the Red Zone channel. It's probably a waste of time but at least I can give up without leaving a stone unturned.


You were really expecting SkipMode with Verizon STB?!


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

I did and experiment over the weekend to prove a theory and I think I found the answer. The cablecard will only decode 2 encrypted channels before it goes into a reset cycle every 300 seconds or so.

Friday I put my Roamio on ABC HD and pulled the plug. Now its rebooted with all 6 tuners on ABC so I put tuner 0 on TBS and tuner 1 on TNT and go to work. I return home after 11 PM and find my Tivo did not skip a beat. It even switched tuner 2 to CBS HD to record a show. I checked my recordings for the day and found 2 recordings one on ABC and one on CBS both complete without skips or pixelization. I checked my cablecard menu and found that also had not failed. I had my Roamio run this way up until Monday morning. I had my seconds counters in the diagnostics screen up in the 10's and 100' of thousands including the OOB counter. My 6 tuners the whole time were (in order) TBS TNT CBS ABC ABC ABC.

This is my theory. While looking at the conditional access screen in the cable card menu under diagnostics, the line listed ActivePrg <0> 1 were the only 2 encoded channels. I then on Monday morning switched tuner 3 to ION HD and that was the end. Black screens, freezing, cablecard failed to load, and all the seconds counters reset including the OOB counter and the card disappeared. I'm guessing ION is an encrypted channel not clear QAM

My guess is the cablecard will not decrypt more then 2 simultaneous streams without crashing or going into a reset loop. I believe this to be in direct violation of the cablecard law as it is written. 76.1205 CableCARD support... "the ability to tune simultaneously as many switched-digital channels as the greatest number of streams supported by any set-top box provided" The Quantum boxes that Fios provides records 6 -12 simultaneous streams depending on your package if I'm not mistaken.

So now did Fios send something to the cards in late June? Is my BPON box causing the bottleneck? Every cablecard I have had has had a firmware of 06.25 which is odd considering my problems started on June 24th just saying.

Here is the page with the whole PDF
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2011-title47-vol4/pdf/CFR-2011-title47-vol4-sec76-1205.pdf


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## RobertTheRaven (Dec 26, 2002)

Sounds very interesting. I'm glad you share with us. When will you write letters to Verizon, TiVo, and FCC regarding this situation, since phone calls and message board posts aren't working.

I forgot, but have you tried calling Verizon Expert Care Team at 877-718-6716. That's my next step, but I think it will prove to be fruitless. You've gone further on this issue than anyone else.



tech1029 said:


> I did and experiment over the weekend to prove a theory and I think I found the answer. The cablecard will only decode 2 encrypted channels before it goes into a reset cycle every 300 seconds or so.
> 
> Friday I put my Roamio on ABC HD and pulled the plug. Now its rebooted with all 6 tuners on ABC so I put tuner 0 on TBS and tuner 1 on TNT and go to work. I return home after 11 PM and find my Tivo did not skip a beat. It even switched tuner 2 to CBS HD to record a show. I checked my recordings for the day and found 2 recordings one on ABC and one on CBS both complete without skips or pixelization. I checked my cablecard menu and found that also had not failed. I had my Roamio run this way up until Monday morning. I had my seconds counters in the diagnostics screen up in the 10's and 100' of thousands including the OOB counter. My 6 tuners the whole time were (in order) TBS TNT CBS ABC ABC ABC.
> 
> ...


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

RobertTheRaven said:


> I forgot, but have you tried calling Verizon Expert Care Team at 877-718-6716. That's my next step, but I think it will prove to be fruitless. You've gone further on this issue than anyone else.


I didn't know about that number but I will give it a try tomorrow morning. What have I got to loose. Verizon did reach out to me in the beginning. Someone from an elevated team. It may have been them. They were even from the office in the professional center not far from my house (Horizon if your local to me). Unfortunately after a while calls were never returned. I hope this is a different team.


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## RobertTheRaven (Dec 26, 2002)

tech1029 said:


> I didn't know about that number but I will give it a try tomorrow morning. What have I got to loose. Verizon did reach out to me in the beginning. Someone from an elevated team. It may have been them. They were even from the office in the professional center not far from my house (Horizon if your local to me). Unfortunately after a while calls were never returned. I hope this is a different team.


I got the number when frustrated with the standard FIOS support and I insisted on asking whom I can talk to that would actually be knowledgeable about things. And maybe even be willing to read a thread on a message board. I just never got around to testing them out.

We're really in the same area and should probably get together at some point and vent


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

RobertTheRaven said:


> I forgot, but have you tried calling Verizon Expert Care Team at 877-718-6716. That's my next step, but I think it will prove to be fruitless. You've gone further on this issue than anyone else.


That number was a dead end. It just puts you back at the standard voice prompts where the best I could have done was an automated reset or the "representative " bit. We already know where that will get us. So I hung up.

I made another attempt to call the local number I got for the office around the corner from me. It was a guy on the "promise team" . I left a voice message so we will see if I get a return call. I told them I am still having the same issue he reached out to me about since July.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

Just to update everyone. I filed an FCC complaint yesterday in regards to my CableCard failure. They forwarded it to Verizon. I recommend that as many of us as possible do this. Maybe getting an FCC letterhead will get FIOS off their ass.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

tech1029 said:


> ...........
> 
> So now did Fios send something to the cards in late June? Is my BPON box causing the bottleneck? Every cablecard I have had has had a firmware of 06.25 which is odd considering my problems started on June 24th just saying.
> 
> ...


I have version 06.25 on all my cable cards on FiOS. One in a Roamio Pro, and one in each of my Bolts. There have never been any issues. The only major issues I've ever had were caused by human error with their techs.

I don't have a BPON ONT anymore though. They swapped that out in 2012 for a GPON ONT.

Your problems should definitely not be happening. I hope the FCC complaint lights a fire under their butts to get the issues fixed.


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

I got a call back from someone at the "promise team" about a half hour after I posted my last post. We chatted for about 20 min and I filled him in on my theory as well as pointing him to this forum and mentioning the other locals having similar issues in my neighborhood (Jack and Robert) as well as the non locals. 

He told me he would get back to me after doing some research on the issue. He then called me back after about 45 min stating he looked at the Xfinity thread and chatting with Tivo directly about the issue. He stated Tivo knows there is a known issue with Tivos recording MP4 channels. I reiterated that is not the issue and he is re-investigating and will get back to me. At least someone is putting forth some effort and I am crossing my fingers an answer is near.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Yes. I've run into no issues here recording H.264 on FiOS.


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

Still in contact with the guy from the Verizon "Promise Team". I got a couple more calls with a couple more configuration and "did you try this?" questions. He mentioned that he read our thread and that he has been in contact with Tivo. 

Tivo says they are aware of an issue. When I told him no one on the thread ever heard that (just the opposite in fact) or that Tivo never posted on our thread he decided to dig some more and will be in touch in a few days

I expressed my (our) gratitude for his effort.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

Someone from TiVo called me from my FCC complaint. I haven't called them back yet because I know it will be the same story. I'll give him the diagnostic screens information and they will come up with strong signal excuse. Why not say TiVo is currently working on a firmware fix and it should resolve all these issues. If someone from TiVo actually knew what was causing the failure they would have done something about it.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

JackStraw said:


> Someone from TiVo called me from my FCC complaint. I haven't called them back yet because I know it will be the same story. I'll give him the diagnostic screens information and they will come up with strong signal excuse. Why not say TiVo is currently working on a firmware fix and it should resolve all these issues. If someone from TiVo actually knew what was causing the failure they would have done something about it.


The FCC complain is for Verizon, not TiVo. I don't know why TiVo called you.

The basis of the complaint is that Verizon is supposed to provide support for CableCard. I don't see how your complaint affects TiVo, unless TiVo called you to gather the "ammunition" for the complaint.


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## RobertTheRaven (Dec 26, 2002)

thyname said:


> The FCC complain is for Verizon, not TiVo. I don't know why TiVo called you.
> 
> The basis of the complaint is that Verizon is supposed to provide support for CableCard. I don't see how your complaint affects TiVo, unless TiVo called you to gather the "ammunition" for the complaint.


Makes sense to me. Let's get those Verizon <censored>.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

I am still recording programs on my problem TiVo as a secondary unit. I'm using the Verizon FIOS STB as my main unit in my living room. You would think this would be the end of my problems. Yesterday I was recording an NFL game and watching recorded programs on the DVR. The picture went black as I started playing back a new program. I could hear the sound but no picture. I went live on another channel, not the channel the game was being recording. That was also black but I could hear the sound. I rebooted the FIOS STB and the picture came back. No doubt the FIOS DVR is a piece of junk. This could have been a case of the STB running out of memory. It's like using an ancient windows PC. So I'm still in limbo. I know the TiVo is just fooling me. If I hook it back up in my living room and actively start surfing channels it will go V58. All I am doing now is scrolling the guide and setting programs to be recorded. Watching live TV while the TiVo is recording one or more programs or just flipping through some live channels could easily put the CableCard in failure to load again.


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

Just jumping in here real quick. On Oct 13 I had a conference call with Verizon promise team and Tivo where it started with the AES department but after a disconnect and call back I ended up talking to another supervisor. At first it started with buck passing but it ended (hopefully) with both of them agreeing to have their engineering departments looking further into the situation. They both read this and the Tivo.com forum while I was on the phone with them. I will reach out to them early next week to check on the progress.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

tech1029 said:


> Just jumping in here real quick. On Oct 13 I had a conference call with Verizon promise team and Tivo where it started with the AES department but after a disconnect and call back I ended up talking to another supervisor. At first it started with buck passing but it ended (hopefully) with both of them agreeing to have their engineering departments looking further into the situation. They both read this and the Tivo.com forum while I was on the phone with them. I will reach out to them early next week to check on the progress.


Please keep the updates going. It seems like you are making good progress. The techs are reading the forums and they are agreeing there is an issue. First step in solving a problem is admitting there is a problem. Good work!


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

thyname said:


> ......First step in solving a problem is admitting there is a problem.......


OK, OK, fine you convinced me and twisted my arm enough already geez............

"Hello, my name is Dave and I'm a TiVoholic!"


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

I thought you would find this interesting while we are still suffering with our CableCards. While watching the baseball playoffs from Toronto. I kept seeing a sign for Rogers 4K. Rogers is a large cable company in Canada. I went to their website to see what this about. 
They currently have dedicated 4K channels available on their cable package but what is sad is the PVR they are going to be offering customers in the coming months.

Record up to 8 channels simultaneously, 240 HR HD storage and 90 HR 4K storage. It's not the 500 HR storage the Roamio has but it exceeds anything offered by Comcast or Verizon. That's a joke. Why should Canada be ahead of us in 4K and PVR technology. What is Verizon's excuse for offering an inferior box and distribution system than Rogers.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

JackStraw said:


> I thought you would find this interesting while we are still suffering with our CableCards. While watching the baseball playoffs from Toronto. I kept seeing a sign for Rogers 4K. Rogers is a large cable company in Canada. I went to their website to see what this about.
> They currently have dedicated 4K channels available on their cable package but what is sad is the PVR they are going to be offering customers in the coming months.
> 
> Record up to 8 channels simultaneously, 240 HR HD storage and 90 HR 4K storage. It's not the 500 HR storage the Roamio has but it exceeds anything offered by Comcast or Verizon. That's a joke. Why should Canada be ahead of us in 4K and PVR technology. What is Verizon's excuse for offering an inferior box and distribution system than Rogers.


What channels are they showing in 4K? Canadian channels or US channels?


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

My guy at the Promise Team called me yesterday and said our problem has now been elevated to the national level. He told me to most likely expect a call in the next few day from someone higher up and most likely they will probably want to conference in with Tivo. I'll post more when I know more.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

Great job. Keep up the good work. If the National Level does not bear results, the next step would be to elevate it to the United Nations


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

Jack and Robert check your "conversations" (they use to be private massages)


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## vincekg (Oct 17, 2014)

Let me join the cry for help. This is a real problem to the point where I am almost forced to give up on Tivo - after loving them and having a dozen since the first one. I am down to just two and the Roameo is almost unusable.

I have multiple Tivo models that have worked perfectly for years along with Mini using MoCA. Recently the channels keep getting 'unauthorized'. Different ones at different times all over the channel range. Does not seem to distinguish between High Def and low - both are problems. For a while , DCT boxes were also breaking up and losing channels but reloads fixed that. 

I have taken to recording many channels to see when and where they are lost. I see no pattern. One Tivo will record a channel completely while the same channel will get only a partial recording on another Tivo. I have replaced cable cards, moved connections around and had Verizon reload cards many times.

Verizon claims their line is fine and that it is my extensive internal coax. To disprove this I connected a Tivo directly to the incoming line before any splitters. It functions no better maybe worse than other downstream Tivos? 

I have now replaced every part in the system, including replacing the Series 5 Roameo but still the same problem even when connected directly to the new ONT. Random channels but most consistently 618 Fox is out even as some premium channels work (others don't) but come in and out.

The cable strength is often 99+ but Verizon claims that is not a problem. 

Suggestions?


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Are you in the same north NJ areas as several other posters? Are you on BPON? What Tivos are in use? Are you still using MoCA?
If so, is the MoCA enabled on a Verizon router or are you "creating a MoCA network" with one of your Tivos? What does your "extensive internal coax" really mean? How many splitters are you using, please be descriptive as possible?


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

vincekg said:


> Let me join the cry for help. This is a real problem to the point where I am almost forced to give up on Tivo - after loving them and having a dozen since the first one. I am down to just two and the Roameo is almost unusable.
> 
> I have multiple Tivo models that have worked perfectly for years along with Mini using MoCA. Recently the channels keep getting 'unauthorized'. Different ones at different times all over the channel range. Does not seem to distinguish between High Def and low - both are problems. For a while , DCT boxes were also breaking up and losing channels but reloads fixed that.
> 
> ...


What SNRs do you get? With channel strength that high, it is highly likely that your SNRs are through the roof, which are causing your issues:

https://support.tivo.com/articles/T...oamio-Series-Premiere-Series-and-Series3-DVRs

Scroll down to "Signal Quality" section.

As fcfc2 said, if you provide more details on your MoCa network, he will surely be able to get you some guidance.

Also, have you tried a Verizon STB instead of TiVo?


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## shamilian (Mar 27, 2003)

vincekg said:


> Let me join the cry for help. This is a real problem to the point where I am almost forced to give up on Tivo - after loving them and having a dozen since the first one. I am down to just two and the Roameo is almost unusable.
> 
> I have multiple Tivo models that have worked perfectly for years along with Mini using MoCA. Recently the channels keep getting 'unauthorized'. Different ones at different times all over the channel range. Does not seem to distinguish between High Def and low - both are problems. For a while , DCT boxes were also breaking up and losing channels but reloads fixed that.
> 
> ...


Unauthorized usually points to a problem with the OOB signal.

After years with FIOS I noted that the incoming cable from the ONT through the wall of my house had a slight jog/kink in it where it came in/out of the wall. It was only visible when I pulled the cable through the wall and looked at it out of the wall.

To replace the wire, I just add an new replacement wire with a coupler and pull it through the wall.

I also had to replace the outside telephone wire recently as that had become weathered through the years and my phone system stopped working.

A few years ago my signal started having problems and FIOS tech came out and replaced the power supply to the Battery backup unit. He told me this was a know issue with these older units. It resolved my problems and it has been fine ever since.


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## vincekg (Oct 17, 2014)

Coax Cable quality, length or splitters (new cable, 4 splitters / 20 drops) are not an issue since it fails when we run a new cable directly to the ONT without splitters. I have taken everything out of the system (no MoCA, router, repeater etc) and by going to the ONT and it fails consistently with the Roamio. 

But SNR is running over 39 up to 42dB with the cable strength now 100. The spec in the troubleshooting document is 23-35dB

What is the cure for a high SNR???


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

An attenuator. I use one with my Roamio Pro. And that is after the ONT output goes through an 8 way splitter. Althougb I haven't nended one with my Bolts.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

vincekg said:


> What is the cure for a high SNR???


You may try cable line attenuators. Such as these:

https://www.amazon.com/Parts-Expres...id=1478124422&sr=1-2&keywords=attenuator+6+db

However, often times, these do not solve the problem, as the issue may be with the line outside of your house


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## vincekg (Oct 17, 2014)

Thanks, I will try the attenuator and let you know.


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## vincekg (Oct 17, 2014)

Tried the attenuator; first 12dB and then 12dB with 6dB. It lowered the SNR and signal strength. Got it down to 85% with 35. But no change. Still losing the same channels including Fox 618 while some of the premium channels come through.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

vincekg said:


> Tried the attenuator; first 12dB and then 12dB with 6dB. It lowered the SNR and signal strength. Got it down to 85% with 35. But no change. Still losing the same channels including Fox 618 while some of the premium channels come through.


Bummer! As I said:



thyname said:


> You may try cable line attenuators. Such as these:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Parts-Expres...id=1478124422&sr=1-2&keywords=attenuator+6+db
> 
> However, often times, these do not solve the problem, as the issue may be with the line outside of your house


Garbage in, garbage out! Your issue may be either:

1 - Bad cable line (either inside or outside your house)

2 - Bad TiVo


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## vincekg (Oct 17, 2014)

I have replaced the TiVo - same problem. I connected the TiVo directly to the ONT with no splitters - same problem. So it is repeatable and is not solved by adding an amplifier, attenuator, different M-Cards, new cable, new splitters, no splitters, with/without MoCA, w / w/o internet, new ONTs and yet another model, Series 3 TiVo works.


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

Now to add another twist to the mix. I seem to be having a lot of random reboots. I've been reading that's also been an issue that has been appearing lately. My last one being 20 hours ago. Both my Roamio plus and my Premier XL are rebooting at random.


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## DigitalDawn (Apr 26, 2009)

A couple of years ago I went through cable-card hell and I really feel for you. It's so frustrating.

In our home we were losing all channels with V58 errors every three weeks or so, requiring a re-pairing. This went on for months with no resolution. Then all of a sudden we started losing channels every five minutes. At this point, all of Comcast's Palm Beach County customers became affected. 

I'll give Comcast credit for figuring it out, and they updated all the cable cards in the area and that largely solved the V58 issues. Now we lose channels only every three months or so. I can live with that.

What I'm getting at is that from the descriptions here I think it could possibly be a cable-card version or software problem. Either way, it's most-likely a Verizon issue.


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## vincekg (Oct 17, 2014)

I am leaning toward it being a software issue either on the M-Card firmware or Tivo failsafe or device protection mode. But where ever the problem may lie, it is TiVo that is losing without a solution. Verizon is just laughing and selling their DVR boxes and upgraded service. I have stopped using 2 TiVos and I am about to replace a third. I need something that works.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

After the FCC complaint FIOS contacted me and said they had updated the firmware on my router. What happens now is this I tune to the RedZone channel which right now is doing the Fantasy Football show prior the games. When I tune off the channel all the other channels are black. I sit on the channel for about 60-90 seconds and the picture comes on. All the other channels work correctly. I can replicate this issue over and over. Tune to the RZ and then switch to another channel and go through the same process. What happened in the past was V58 as the CableCard just froze and wouldn't load. The problem is the RZ is surrounded by the subscription based channels like NBA League Pass and MLB. Whatever code is sent when you tune to the RZ is different than the premium movie channels. I would imagine it would be like a PPV code like when order MMA or boxing. It does something to the card. I think you can buy the RZ on a week to week basis if it isn't included on your tier. As I have posted before when you tune to the RZ channel on the Verizon STB you get a message where you have to approve the RZ channel even though it's included. No other channel does this. Each Sunday when you tune to it you have go through the same. All this nonsense came about over a dispute between cable companies and the NFL about where the channel is placed and how it is treated. You have to buy the channel if your not on the Ultimate package. Think about it. If Verizon's own STB require you to go through this process to tune into the channel imagine all the havoc it creates on a CableCard.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

JackStraw said:


> I think you can buy the RZ on a week to week basis if it isn't included on your tier. As I have posted before when you tune to the RZ channel on the Verizon STB you get a message where you have to approve the RZ channel even though it's included. No other channel does this. Each Sunday when you tune to it you have go through the same. All this nonsense came about over a dispute between cable companies and the NFL about where the channel is placed and how it is treated. You have to buy the channel if your not on the Ultimate package. Think about it. If Verizon's own STB require you to go through this process to tune into the channel imagine all the havoc it creates on a CableCard.


Not true.

The only way to get RZ channel with Verizon FIOS is either through Ultimate package or Sport Pass add on.

Cannot be bought standalone, let alone in weekly basis.

Used to offer it standalone for the season ($70 last year), but they did not offer this deal this year. I know this 100%, as I closely follow it. I now have Ultimate at this time (had Sport Pass before with Custom tv), and never had any issues with the channel and my Bolt+ (and "regular " Bolt before that).


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## Rkkeller (May 13, 2004)

I am in Mercer County NJ with a Fios cablecard in my Roamio and never had any problems at all since install.

I will be adding a Bolt tomorrow with a cablecard and expect no problems.

I have been very happy with Verizon and their cablecards.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

As I noted up thread, we are on FiOS in Bergen County with BPON service (75/75 run into the house on Ethernet). We subscribe to the Ultimate tier, and have 2 Roamio Pros and 5 minis, all without any problems. We do not use a Verizon router (we currently use an Asus RT-N66U) and instead use a standalone Ethernet/MOCA bridge to create a MOCA network.

I can tune to RZ and other channels in any combination or order without any trouble at all. This SHOULD just work. There has to be some difference in what your cablecards see, we just haven't figured out what.


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## rif (Jan 18, 2016)

I'm in southern NJ fios and am experiencing these same issues on my roamio. I'm getting a new cable card tomorrow, but I'm not optimistic.

I did notice this, and it's not encouraging. When the channels go out, which is every time I change the channel, take a look at the cable card menus. The ones that are gray and black, that give detailed info, where you need to press clear to exit. 

They all say 'failed to load///cp....' when the channels aren't working. Oddly enough, the tivo menu says that cable card channels 0 - 5 look fine.

Tomorrow I'll try the new card. First I'll disconnect the coax to remove that variable


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## rif (Jan 18, 2016)

rif said:


> I'm in southern NJ fios and am experiencing these same issues on my roamio. I'm getting a new cable card tomorrow, but I'm not optimistic.
> 
> I did notice this, and it's not encouraging. When the channels go out, which is every time I change the channel, take a look at the cable card menus. The ones that are gray and black, that give detailed info, where you need to press clear to exit.
> 
> ...


Here's my update. the new cable card didn't work any differently. I decided to remove the new 2tb internal drive and go back to the original configuration - 1tb internal, 1tb external. and I put in the cable card from my TiVoHD.

*Eventually it all settled down and worked!* I now get tnt, BBC America, syfy, in addition to nbc, CBS etc.

*Then I hooked up a mini, and it broke everything on the Roamio.* after unhooking the mini, the Roamio went back to normal about an hour later.

If I get brave, I'll swap out the internal drive...


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

Well it appears we received another update 20.6.3.RC7. I can't speak for anyone else but it changed nothing for me. I still get my V58s and 161-17s. I'm going to post over at the Tivo.com support forum also as well as notify the Verizon Promise Team.


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## Herg (Apr 18, 2002)

First, I'll say I haven't read all 7 pages of this thread, so I'm not sure how applicable this is to the topic, but...

I have a Roamio Plus, and I was getting V58 on a bunch of channels. A couple of hours with Fios support, they asked Tier 2, and they were able to get those channels working. They said there were errors on their end, but, of course, they didn't elaborate.

Now, I still am having issues with some recordings. The Oklahoma vs OK State game currently on Fox and the Pac12 game last night let me view live, but no buffer. The game last night let me view the recording, but skip/REW/FF were unreliable, and it would randomly skip big chunks of time while watching.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

Herg said:


> First, I'll say I haven't read all 7 pages of this thread, so I'm not sure how applicable this is to the topic, but...
> 
> I have a Roamio Plus, and I was getting V58 on a bunch of channels. A couple of hours with Fios support, they asked Tier 2, and they were able to get those channels working. They said there were errors on their end, but, of course, they didn't elaborate.
> 
> Now, I still am having issues with some recordings. The Oklahoma vs OK State game currently on Fox and the Pac12 game last night let me view live, but no buffer. The game last night let me view the recording, but skip/REW/FF were unreliable, and it would randomly skip big chunks of time while watching.


That's a specific issue on channel 505 Verizon FIOS customers in DC area are experiencing. Do a search is these forums. Plenty of very recent posts and threads


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## RobertTheRaven (Dec 26, 2002)

tech1029 said:


> Well it appears we received another update 20.6.3.RC7. I can't speak for anyone else but it changed nothing for me. I still get my V58s and 161-17s. I'm going to post over at the Tivo.com support forum also as well as notify the Verizon Promise Team.


Still getting my usual errors also. The week before Thanksgiving I did get a call from Verizon saying that they and TiVo agree that there's a problem and they'd be looking into it. And they'd be calling me to give updates. (That was the 2nd or 3rd call I had received on the subject). Of course, TiVo regular tech support blames the problem on too strong a signal and they suggest line attenuation, which I already tried long ago to no positive effect.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

tech1029 said:


> Well it appears we received another update 20.6.3.RC7. I can't speak for anyone else but it changed nothing for me. I still get my V58s and *161-17s*. I'm going to post over at the Tivo.com support forum also as well as notify the Verizon Promise Team.


I can give the information on the CableCard Error code you listed.

Error Condition 17: *Card fails to respond to profile_inq within five seconds*.
Failure: Card
Host Action:
1: Minimum-Perform 1 PCMCIA reset, Report error if not successful
2: Optional-Retry PCMCIA resets up to 2 times and report error
3: Preferred-Perform 1 PCMCIA at least 1 reset. Report error if not successful and continue to perform PCMCIA resets.
Card Mode: S Mode and M Mode
SCTE Card Action: None
Comments: Host reports error to user.

What is being reported here is the card talking to the host, performing actions, and then reporting the error to you. The card is the CableCard, the host is the CableCard slot in the TiVo, and of course you are the user. Report Error Condition to Verizon and what the error is.


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## The Merg (Dec 2, 2007)

thyname said:


> That's a specific issue on channel 505 Verizon FIOS customers in DC area are experiencing. Do a search is these forums. Plenty of very recent posts and threads


Yup, however, I haven't noticed an issue in the last week and a half.

- Merg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

I got all excited. As I have posted my TiVo Roamio is in my bedroom and my Verizon STB is in my living room. Because I have had no issues in my bedroom for two months. I became convinced that the problem is a bad cable from the splitter going my attic to my living room. I have record several programs on the TiVo some simultaneously and everyone has been recorded intact. No V58 issues. I watch the TV in my bedroom before I go to sleep. I rapidly surf from channel to channel and everything is good. When the box was downstairs doing the same often caused V58 and CableCard failure to load. Thursday morning between 8-9am I set the TiVo to record two programs one on HBO and the other on EPIX. I turned the TV about 2am Friday and V58 has returned.
Both programs I recorded in the TiVo were partials. It looks like they stopped recording about 9am.

Now I don't know what to think I was all set to switch boxes on Saturday hoping I could record some football games on Sunday including the RedZone from from 4-8pm. I don't want to deal with these failures. The only think I can think is I have been lucky. I just need the right combination to create the failure again. V58's love to rear their head in the morning in addition to Sunday. Is it a signal spike. I already posted the attenuators made things worse. Was Thursday just a random issue. Maybe Verizon was doing some testing. No, and I'm not trying to make light of a serious issue but V58 is like a cancer that went into remission. It hides and waits to strike again. I guess I could always sell my house and move to another NJ location. If there was only a way to test the box and card to prove that the problem is Verizon or TiVo's software. I just refuse to spend the money to exchange the box, lose my 400hrs of programing and end up back to square one.


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## rif (Jan 18, 2016)

JackStraw said:


> I got all excited. As I have posted my TiVo Roamio is in my bedroom and my Verizon STB is in my living room. Because I have had no issues in my bedroom for two months. I became convinced that the problem is a bad cable from the splitter going my attic to my living room. I have record several programs on the TiVo some simultaneously and everyone has been recorded intact. No V58 issues. I watch the TV in my bedroom before I go to sleep. I rapidly surf from channel to channel and everything is good. When the box was downstairs doing the same often caused V58 and CableCard failure to load. Thursday morning between 8-9am I set the TiVo to record two programs one on HBO and the other on EPIX. I turned the TV about 2am Friday and V58 has returned.
> Both programs I recorded in the TiVo were partials. It looks like they stopped recording about 9am.
> 
> Now I don't know what to think I was all set to switch boxes on Saturday hoping I could record some football games on Sunday including the RedZone from from 4-8pm. I don't want to deal with these failures. The only think I can think is I have been lucky. I just need the right combination to create the failure again. V58's love to rear their head in the morning in addition to Sunday. Is it a signal spike. I already posted the attenuators made things worse. Was Thursday just a random issue. Maybe Verizon was doing some testing. No, and I'm not trying to make light of a serious issue but V58 is like a cancer that went into remission. It hides and waits to strike again. I guess I could always sell my house and move to another NJ location. If there was only a way to test the box and card to prove that the problem is Verizon or TiVo's software. I just refuse to spend the money to exchange the box, lose my 400hrs of programing and end up back to square one.


My issue was caused by a mini. Maybe the Verizon box is causing issues when it is within a splitter's distance of the Tivo? easy enough to test - unplug the Verizon box on Sunday morning. after the mini messes up my roamio, it takes at least an hour for the roamio to start working normally.


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## billzskillz (Aug 18, 2016)

I have finally thrown in the flag. Sold my tivo products want nothing more to do with this company. Ridiculous that this many people are having issues and NOTHING is being done to rectify it. As customers we shouldn't have to troubleshoot and waste countless hours on a issue for a product we purchased. I will never recommend tivo to anyone. Will be going out of my way to write as many bad reviews. There customer service is horrible, have received attitudes with everyone pointing fingers at everyone else.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

billzskillz said:


> Will be going out of my way to write as many bad reviews.


Revenge!!!


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## rif (Jan 18, 2016)

Ugh! got the v58 error again. but...it was recording 3 channels. so i stop one recording and my 2 recording tuners are working again, but v58 on live tv. so my guess is that it only likes using 2 tuners. that would also go a longbway to expkaijung why the mini caused problems.


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

Well I have been home sick for the last two weeks so I had a chance to watch a lot of TV as long as (I didn't change the channel)!

It has nothing to do with how many tuners you are using or how many channels are local or not. The whole key now seems to be IF ANY ONE CERTAIN CHANNEL EXIST IN THE TUNER LIST IT WILL SEND YOUR CABLECARD INTO A REBOOT LOOP. I am sure the list is longer then this but this is what I watch that causes the issue. I have found so far the following channels will cause this issue.
518 ION TV
568 WGNA
602 CNN
663 COOKING CHANNEL

It can take an hour or more for the symptoms to appear (V58 etc) but I would bet you will find your Cablecard is in a failed to load state if any one of these channels is in your tuner list. If you remove the offending channel by changing the channel on that tuner while it may take up to 5 min for the channel to change but the cablecard will return to normal operation as soon as the channel comes alive.

The sad part of it all is I have been in contact with Verizon and they in turn have been in contact with Tivo but it has been almost a month now and I have not heard a peep from anyone on the progress of the situation. I can only hope they are still reading this forum to see this new information because it is impossible to convey it to anyone of any importance.

I would hate to have to go the Route of BILLZSKILLZ because I refuse to pay the rates the cable company wants for their equipment. I will go back to an antenna on the roof first.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I show that 602 is CNBC HD+. CHannel 600 is CNN.


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

I stand corrected 602 is CNBC. I was in work when I wrote my post. Thanks for catching that.


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## RobertTheRaven (Dec 26, 2002)

It's interesting that you have a channel listing like this. I don't watch any of those channels, but I have the same problems.



tech1029 said:


> Well I have been home sick for the last two weeks so I had a chance to watch a lot of TV as long as (I didn't change the channel)!
> 
> It has nothing to do with how many tuners you are using or how many channels are local or not. The whole key now seems to be IF ANY ONE CERTAIN CHANNEL EXIST IN THE TUNER LIST IT WILL SEND YOUR CABLECARD INTO A REBOOT LOOP. I am sure the list is longer then this but this is what I watch that causes the issue. I have found so far the following channels will cause this issue.
> 518 ION TV
> ...


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

There could be more channels that cause the issue that I'm not aware of. These are just some of the ones I found so far. Short of ABC CBS and NBC you can list some of the channels in your tuners when you notice the issue and I'll try them in my unit to see if I can replicate the issue. Keep in mind I don't subscribe to any premium channels. I have any channel listed in the old extreme package.


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## RobertTheRaven (Dec 26, 2002)

Usually when I switch to FXX, it causes the problem within an hour. That's 553. And that's what happened tonight.

What else were the tuners set to? 664 Food network, 540 CBS (x2), 553 FX, and 552 TBS.

My usual reset trick is to stop all recordings, and put the channel on 665 (HGTV), and then reboot. Otherwise, it just might get stuck again after a reboot. But that channel is lucky enough for me to not cause problems.



tech1029 said:


> There could be more channels that cause the issue that I'm not aware of. These are just some of the ones I found so far. Short of ABC CBS and NBC you can list some of the channels in your tuners when you notice the issue and I'll try them in my unit to see if I can replicate the issue. Keep in mind I don't subscribe to any premium channels. I have any channel listed in the old extreme package.


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

I watch a lot of 664 FOOD and while I am sure that the cablecard is in a failure mode it doesn't V58 as long as there is no other offending channel in the tuner list.
Instead of rebooting try tuning to the offending channel / tuner and switching to a safe channel to see if it will correct itself after 5 minutes. It works for me that way. The cablecard comes back to life and the Tivo even speeds back up (no spinning circle)


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## vincekg (Oct 17, 2014)

Has there been any progress on this problem? I have not seen anything yet.


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## vincekg (Oct 17, 2014)

I just talked to Tivo and they tell me that the engineers from both sides are 'talking'. I have been playing with this problem since June and we are no closer to a solution. From at least 12 tuner plus mini's working fine - to now I have nothing that works. Has anyone contacted the Federal Communications Corp? I was under the impression that the carrier HAD to make their cable cards work? Is there a way to make the Tivo work with HD cable box? Is it time to give up on Tivo and let Verizon win??????????


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

Do you ever wonder why this issue affects so few of us. Still have my TiVo dormant in my bedroom and using the Verizon STB in my living room. Can switch over to Quantum and return the CableCard any day but I keep checking this thread to see if anymore progress has been made. I don't understand what the engineers have to talk about. Just see what changes were made in June to cause the issue in the first place.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

JackStraw said:


> Do you ever wonder why this issue affects so few of us. Still have my TiVo dormant in my bedroom and using the Verizon STB in my living room. Can switch over to Quantum and return the CableCard any day but I keep checking this thread to see if anymore progress has been made. I don't understand what the engineers have to talk about. Just see what changes were made in June to cause the issue in the first place.


I am not $ure what could be the rea$on it is taking $o long to get the proper information from FIO$ a$ to exactly what changes they have made to their $y$tem which ha$ re$ulted in $ome folk$ like you to either to u$e and pay for one or more of the FIO$ boxe$. It almo$t $eem$ like they are getting $ome benefit out of the delay.
Do you think that if everyone who was impacted by thi$ i$$ue would complain to the FCC about Verizon'$ failure to properly $upport cable card$, it might help encourage them to be more helpful? FCC Complaints


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## rif (Jan 18, 2016)

Are we all 100% sure that this is a verizon issue and not possibly at all due to tivo? Couldn't it be related to the way tivo has implememted the cable card on their end, either in hardware or firmware? No one has mentioned what chipset the roamio uses for cablecard use, and compared it to other models (premerie xl4, other roamios, bolt 6 tuner).

Im not able to file a formal complaint with the fcc until we're 100%


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

FWIW I got a call from my contact at the Fios Promise Team just before Christmas. He apologized for the lack of contact but assured me they were still at work on the issue. I told him to take a look at my latest post on this forum about select channels causing the issue and pass it on to the powers that be.

Now that the Holiday season is over I can sit down in front of the Tivo and one by one try each channel to see which ones cause the problem to occur and compile a list. I am starting to believe it is an RF issue affecting the cablecard now after a software update. That or some form of authorization issue deep in a program on Fios' end. IMHO


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## vincekg (Oct 17, 2014)

I talked with the Promise Team earlier this week. Basically, nothing happened over the holidays. It sounds like they are going to start to test again but still no solution (or full understanding of what causes the problem). He indicated that it was across many Tivo models. BTW, service on my Verizon DVR is not perfect either with it rebooting several times a day and pixelating. Verizon claims that is a bad internal line or splitter. Since the splitter is new and they put an amp on the line, I think that is BS. I think it is FCC time.

This started around June. It seems to me that if I were running this problem I would first try to load the OLD version of Tivo software on to one of our boxes and see if that solves the problem. Alternately, but probably more difficult, load the OLD Verizon software/firmware.


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

I am scheduled to do more testing this coming Thursday. I'm sticking with it as long as there are people on the other end still working on a fix. I just hope they come up with a solution soon.


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## RobertTheRaven (Dec 26, 2002)

tech1029 said:


> I am scheduled to do more testing this coming Thursday. I'm sticking with it as long as there are people on the other end still working on a fix. I just hope they come up with a solution soon.


Very good. This is basically what the Verizon guy told me on the phone last week. I hope they can figure it out...


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

Well I woke up this morning (Jan 18th 2017) to a rebooted Roamio and a message that I had an update for enhanced accessibility. I am now ver 20.6.3.RC15.

All my tuners were on 506 ABC so I did a quick test. I checked my cablcard and all was good. I selected tuner #3 and changed it to 663 Cooking channel. went back and checked the cablecard and it was now in failure mode. I switched to tuner #2 still on 506 and changed that channel to 503 CBS. the change took 3 almost 3 min to complete with me looking at a black screen for half of it and a V53 error for the other half. When it did finally appear I was able to watch for maybe 5 min until the blue screen 161-17 error popped up. I switched back to tuner 1 while I type this and I'm watching the screen black out once every 3 ish min for 30 sec at a time when it's not going 161-17.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

My TiVo sub is up March 2nd. Still checking this thread looking for a solution. Have put off switching to Quantum and still just using my FIOS set top box for my main viewing and recording. Have about 30 days before I order Quantum boxes. Looks pretty dismal now that this will be resolved as latest update was useless. There are so many things I hate about FIOS box they are too numerous to mention. For one the playback/pause button is pathetic. I guess one good thing if I have to give credit at all is Rotten Tomatoes ratings on the movies. Saves me some time in deciding whether to record movie. If the critics and public only give it 10% it's usually as bad as they claim.


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## vincekg (Oct 17, 2014)

I have not heard anything from TiVo in months. Any reason to believe that were are any closer to a solution than we were 6+ months ago when this started for me?


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## tech1029 (Oct 19, 2005)

Well this chapter can be marked closed for me. All is well with my Fios and Tivo. Props to the Verizon Promise Team for working with me in getting this issue resolved. For the curious onlookers and followers the problem can't be explained. I had my equipment switched out to Quantum and everything started working but when I switched back to the original equipment it remained working to everyones bewilderment. I'm not going to complain I'm just happy to be watching TV again. I was made good for my down time as well.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

tech1029 said:


> Well this chapter can be marked closed for me. All is well with my Fios and Tivo. Props to the Verizon Promise Team for working with me in getting this issue resolved. For the curious onlookers and followers the problem can't be explained. I had my equipment switched out to Quantum and everything started working but when I switched back to the original equipment it remained working to everyones bewilderment. I'm not going to complain I'm just happy to be watching TV again. I was made good for my down time as well.


I put my TiVo back into my living room and moved by Verizon STB back to my bedroom a week ago. My yearly TiVo sub was coming up March 2nd. I wanted to give the TiVo one last shot as it seemed to be working well in my bedroom. I have been trying every way to get the TiVo to fail. Recording 6 shows at once. Flipping through the channels rapidly. Going to the Red Zone channel and back. Nothing times out the CableCard. I did change my subscription with TiVo from yearly to month to month. I'm not buying a lifetime sub because the equipment can fail. TiVo should let you transfer lifetime sub to other equipment such as if you upgrade to the Bolt. In any event as long as TiVo doesn't have anymore CableCard issues I will stick with it. I would be interested in finding out how Verizon and TiVo resolved the problem but I don't expect it. No company wants to admit liability.


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