# Best TV Choice as a TiVo User?



## michael1248 (Feb 14, 2002)

Been around since TiVo Series 1. (Waiting for the museum to call and make an offer!)

I am looking for a new TV to upgrade from my 10 year old 55 inch Panasonic Plasma. Back then there were plenty of options for non-Smart TVs in the form of TV monitors. Now, it seems that I am stuck with upgrading to a Smart TV...for which I do not need any of the apps since I am either streaming thru my TiVo or thru my blu-ray player via an independent sound system. 

Any ideas/suggestions for TV that keep the "Smartness" to a minimum but still offers a great picture. 

or

Am I stuck shopping the Smart TVs?


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## bob61 (Apr 23, 2002)

There are still options for sets without being a Smart TV. Saw an ad a month ago for 55" LED without "smart" features for $350.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

What features are you looking for (size, resolution, etc) that are an upgrade from your current TV?

Not sure there's any reason why you can't ignore the smartness if you find what you want at the right price. We have an older 65" Panasonic plasma and don't use any of the menus on the TV so we never see the apps.

Scott


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

michael1248 said:


> Am I stuck shopping the Smart TVs?


Yes if you want a TV with a better than average picture. In fact if you want a TV with a top tier picture it is likely also going to be 4K.


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## michael1248 (Feb 14, 2002)

Looking for a minimum 65" TV, possibly with 4k and a refresh rate of at least 120.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

michael1248 said:


> Looking for a minimum 65" TV, possibly with 4k and a refresh rate of at least 120.


With that size I would suggest 240 for the refresh rate. But, with all the HDMI issues with the current firmware I'm hesitant to go 4k. True, this is a great time with specials, but I want to move gradually and get a newer AVR first. For now I'm just getting better cables and watching products from Sony, Samsung and LG. I wouldn't buy a Vizio can opener.

Good luck with your quest. I hope, should you decide, that you'll post your decision and how it works with your Roamio.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

JoeKustra said:


> With that size I would suggest 240 for the refresh rate. But, with all the HDMI issues with the current firmware I'm hesitant to go 4k. True, this is a great time with specials, but I want to move gradually and get a newer AVR first. For now I'm just getting better cables and watching products from Sony, Samsung and LG. I wouldn't buy a Vizio can opener.
> 
> Good luck with your quest. I hope, should you decide, that you'll post your decision and how it works with your Roamio.


Our bedroom tv is a Vizio. I'm hoping for an earthquake so it will fall over and I can get a new tv. Takes forever to come on, sound is horrible and out of the box you immediately have to put electrical tape over the lighted name. YMMV.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

michael1248 said:


> Been around since TiVo Series 1. (Waiting for the museum to call and make an offer!)
> 
> I am looking for a new TV to upgrade from my 10 year old 55 inch Panasonic Plasma. Back then there were plenty of options for non-Smart TVs in the form of TV monitors. Now, it seems that I am stuck with upgrading to a Smart TV...for which I do not need any of the apps since I am either streaming thru my TiVo or thru my blu-ray player via an independent sound system.
> 
> ...


You didn't really say how much you wanted to spend. Here is the best 65" TV you can buy today for watching TV/Movies IMHO:

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/ef9500?uxtv=265f

If you are a gamer though, that is probably not the best set for you.

I recommend this page for helping determine what is the best tv for your needs in a 65 inch size:

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-size/65-inch/best?uxtv=265f

FWIW: I bought a Sony XBR70X850B last year to replace my much loved Samsung PN64E7000 which died after 3 years and replacement parts were unavailable. I miss my plasma, but the Sony does a pretty good job.

I don't recommend going to Best Buy, HHGregg, etc. to decide because:

1. The content displayed from one set to the next varies, and it often isn't that good to begin with.

2. The lighting in the store in no way matches most people's homes.

3. All the sets are in torch mode to show off the bright colors they can produce. This is not how you should operate your TV in your home.

Caveat 1: I do recommend going to a store if you are interested in seeing just how beautiful OLED is in person.

Caveat 2: I do generally buy my TVs from Best Buy. They will price match online retailers, offer 0% financing if it is a big purchase, and have a generous rewards program. Also, for expensive items, like my plasma, they have cheap extended warranties which I have used more than not in the past decade or so. I got a 100% refund on the Sammy plasma they could not fix which I used to buy my new Sony UHD set.

Just my personal opinion. YMMV.

-Ted


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung...lver/5184121.p?id=1219646565339&skuId=5184121

You won't regret it.


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## eric102 (Oct 31, 2012)

OLED is the way to go if you can afford it. When/if my Pioneer plasmas ever die that's the way I'm going.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

eric102 said:


> OLED is the way to go if you can afford it. When/if my Pioneer plasmas ever die that's the way I'm going.


:up:That's my vote, expect a 4K/UHD 65" OLED to visit my living room some day .


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

michael1248 said:


> Any ideas/suggestions for TV that keep the "Smartness" to a minimum but still offers a great picture.


My TV is just over 2 years old, and I was able to find one I liked that was not smart and was cheaper than other similar models of the same brand. But that wasn't a necessity for me and I would guess that isn't likely to happen in today's market. Being smart is probably like having a tuner, and you might actually pay more for one that isn't smart. High volume is what drives prices down, and at this point high volume probably means a smart tv.

If you really don't want or need the smart features I would assume you could simply not give the set your wireless password.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

atmuscarella said:


> :up:That's my vote, expect a 4K/UHD 65" OLED to visit my living room some day .


An LG OLED is the way the OP should go. He's already used to using a plasma for the last 10 years so anything other than an OLED would be a downgrade. Just try to hold out another year with the plasma to help make sure the OLED you buy has the latest 4K standards incorporated into it.


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## lmacmil (Oct 26, 2015)

JoeKustra said:


> ...with all the HDMI issues with the current firmware I'm hesitant to go 4k.


Could you expand on this or point me to a thread that explains said issues?

My current setup is Tivo Roamio direct to TV (2006 Sony 720p) via HDMI cable and Tivo optical to my AVR. (I only use the AVR for scripted shows.) I am thinking about getting a 4k TV and would likely use the same setup. Are the issues you refer to related to the 4k requirement of an HDMI 2.0 signal chain?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

lmacmil said:


> Could you expand on this or point me to a thread that explains said issues?
> 
> My current setup is Tivo Roamio direct to TV (2006 Sony 720p) via HDMI cable and Tivo optical to my AVR. (I only use the AVR for scripted shows.) I am thinking about getting a 4k TV and would likely use the same setup. Are the issues you refer to related to the 4k requirement of an HDMI 2.0 signal chain?


I find that clicking above on Main TiVo Forums, then using Search is great.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=536246

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=534989

There are more. My problem is that I only want 40" or 43" which limits my choices even more. I'm using a Yamaha RX-V867 AVR and a Sony 40W600B without any problems.


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## MgoBlue65 (Dec 19, 2015)

eric102 said:


> OLED is the way to go if you can afford it. When/if my Pioneer plasmas ever die that's the way I'm going.


It's the ONLY tech that will replace my Sammy plasma. Living with plasma I just can't bring myself to adopt anything else in 4K right now and the 65" 4K OLED is not at my price point. I'll wait for the 4K programming to mature and wait for the display prices to come down.


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## Jayboy3 (Jan 2, 2010)

Projectors have made leaps in value for the price. Consider huge projection screen. I'm loving mine.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## eric102 (Oct 31, 2012)

Jayboy3 said:


> Projectors have made leaps in value for the price. Consider huge projection screen. I'm loving mine.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


Do they still need darkish rooms?


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## dahacker (Jan 14, 2004)

Don't listen to us. We don't know your budget, visual acuity, room conditions, etc. Ignore whether it is smart or not. A $80 Roku will outperform any Smart TV. One sad fact...you probably are not going to get a high quality TV without 4K$$$$ these days.


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## philt56 (Aug 22, 2008)

You don't show where you live. I recommend Abt especially if you l e local to Chicago. But even mail order, their reputation for customer satisfaction is great. PM me if you want a salesman, you get better deals and can negotiate calling them vs just the Internet price. 

I prefer So y over Samsung. I think their color is more natural, you still have to play around to get rid of soap opera affect. Also if you like twin view /PIP, Sony lets you do two sources vs Samsung requires using the built in tuner for one window. I use my TiVo HDMI for one input and a mini with component for the other to watch 2 shows at once.


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## michael1248 (Feb 14, 2002)

I live in the Denver area and I would like to spend less than $1500. I think that puts OLED out of reach for me. 

I am not a gamer, but love my NASCAR!


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

michael1248 said:


> I live in the Denver area and I would like to spend less than $1500. I think that puts OLED out of reach for me.
> 
> I am not a gamer, but love my NASCAR!


If you love NASCAR and other sports, this is probably a good choice in your price range:

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x810c

Next question: do you sit directly in front of your TV? If you need good off-angle viewing, that Sony set is a good choice as it has an IPS panel, but you do loose the deep blacks that a VA panel provides.


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## michael1248 (Feb 14, 2002)

Yes, I sit directly in front of the TV.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

philt56 said:


> You don't show where you live. I recommend Abt especially if you l e local to Chicago. But even mail order, their reputation for customer satisfaction is great. PM me if you want a salesman, you get better deals and can negotiate calling them vs just the Internet price.


Ditto on the Abt recommendation. I live 10 minutes from their store. It's an amazingly run company, and they have the best customer service I've ever encountered.

FYI, If you want to research TVs, or any A/V gear for that matter, the best place by far is AVS Forum ...

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/index.php


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## borabora (Aug 30, 2007)

People are so different in what they like and what bothers them that buying into others' opinions is risky. I for one have never seen a plasma display that I really liked -- that includes Pioneer and Samsung. And, whether you like high refresh rates or not, it's worthwhile to read up on why they exist and why they should be irrelevant given current technology. There was an easy to understand article in extremetech.com several years ago on the topic.

As far as I am concerned I have three approaches regarding TVs:

1. Do some research on an interesting model and ensure that it does not have a large consistent number of relevant complaints. (Irrelevant, for example, are complaints about audio quality when you will use an external sound system.)
2. Since I don't have a dedicated home theater room, the way the TV looks when turned off is at least as important as what the picture looks like. I will see it in the off state more often than I watch TV.
3. Within a certain price range X, if you spend $X today you will end up with a worse TV in three years than if you spend $X/2 today and $X/2 again in 2-3 years. In addition to having a "better" TV in 3 years you also have another spare one. This logic doesn't always hold nor is it always relevant (if the expense isn't important to you) or attractive but it's worth thinking about.


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

MgoBlue65 said:


> It's the ONLY tech that will replace my Sammy plasma. Living with plasma I just can't bring myself to adopt anything else in 4K right now and the 65" 4K OLED is not at my price point. I'll wait for the 4K programming to mature and wait for the display prices to come down.


The OLEDs do look nice, and they're currently the only thing I would consider to replace my Pioneer Plasma; but it still looks great - and unless it croaks, I have no reason to replace it.

It's kind of gross how even in the Magnolia section of Best Buy, most of the TVs on display destroy film content with their over-sharpening and motion smoothing crap.


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## Lord_Vader (Jan 29, 2009)

I just bought the Samsung mentioned above. (with the bluray)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00U9U9GII?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

It is a 2015 model, so the price is pretty good right now. I have a very similar 55" Samsung, and I never use the "smart" apps. I don't even notice them to be honest.

I might use the Netflix app on the new TV to watch 4k content from Netflix though since the Tivo isn't 4k yet.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

michael1248 said:


> I am looking for a new TV to upgrade from my 10 year old 55 inch Panasonic Plasma.


Does it work? how many inputs does it have? (I didn't realize they made plasmas that big...)


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

mattack said:


> Does it work? how many inputs does it have? (I didn't realize they made plasmas that big...)


We have a 65" Panasonic plasm from 2010 so I know they made them at least that large (which were affordable). My brother also bought one a year or so ago right before Panasonic stopped making plasma TVs.

Panasonic also made a 152" one but not sure how many of those they actually sold! 

http://gizmodo.com/5442012/panasonics-152-inch-3d-plasma-the-biggest-tv-yet

Scott


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2016)

Even though I love the look of the OLEDs, unless you have a room with very good light control (same as Plasma) the LED option will probably be better. OLEDs are not even producing 1000 NITs at the point.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2016)

HerronScott said:


> We have a 65" Panasonic plasm from 2010 so I know they made them at least that large (which were affordable). My brother also bought one a year or so ago right before Panasonic stopped making plasma TVs.
> 
> Panasonic also made a 152" one but not sure how many of those they actually sold!
> 
> ...


They also made 105 inch models which were more common. A number of NBC O&Os use these on set. On WNBC NYC the 4 behind the anchors make it look live the NYC Skyline is REALLY behind the "window" behind them, as compared to the old static matte most use.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2016)

HerronScott said:


> We have a 65" Panasonic plasm from 2010 so I know they made them at least that large (which were affordable). My brother also bought one a year or so ago right before Panasonic stopped making plasma TVs.
> 
> Panasonic also made a 152" one but not sure how many of those they actually sold!
> 
> ...


The more common Panny Plasma 103" were much more reasonable and common. A number of NBC O&Os like WNBC NYC use these on their news set and you would swear they have a giant window cut out of the side of 30 Rock, as opposed to the static matte that most stations will use if skylines.





At night in full resolution, it is remarkable as you can look closely in the 2:00-4:00 area and actually see the lights twinkling through the atmosphere, as it should look, as opposed to the fuzzy flat matte behind Jimmy Falone set in same clip.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

mattack said:


> Does it work? how many inputs does it have? (I didn't realize they made plasmas that big...)


The did. I sorely miss my circa 2012 64" Samsung plasma. It only lasted 3 years. The LED set I have today is pretty good, but it does not compare to any recent plasma.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

ncted said:


> The did. I sorely miss my circa 2012 64" Samsung plasma. It only lasted 3 years. .


I would have been severely disappointed if that kind of purchase had only lasted 3 years! I think you mentioned that they didn't have parts to repair it? Not a very good advertisement for Samsung.

Scott


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

I was always a die hard plasma guy, but ever since I got my 70" Sharp Elite, I'm now a local dimming LCD convert. I really love my 60" Elite Kuro, but the Sharp is so much brighter and the picture has way more "pop".


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> The more common Panny Plasma 103" were much more reasonable and common.


They had one of those on the sales floor at Abt. I used to sit there in front of it and drool ...


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

HerronScott said:


> I would have been severely disappointed if that kind of purchase had only lasted 3 years! I think you mentioned that they didn't have parts to repair it? Not a very good advertisement for Samsung.
> 
> Scott


I WAS severely disappointed. It was the panel that went, and, essentially, they had shut down the factory line that made them, so they prioritized the available stock of parts for in-warranty customers over out-of-warranty customers. I did have a Best Buy service contract, and, since there were no new plasmas to sell me, they refunded my original purchase price, which paid for my 70" Sony UHD set, but I would still rather have my plasma back. I wish it had stuck around another year or two, so I could have afforded an OLED to replace it.

My 2007-vintage Samsung 46" CCFL-backlit LCD in the bedroom went at about the same time. I replaced that with a 55" Sony 1080p set that was on clearance. I really like the Sony LED-LCD tvs better than any of the Samsungs with the same display technology. I also tried out a Vizio 70" LED-LCD before I settled on the Sony. It really did not compare. The local-dimming was very obvious and annoying, and blooming was terrible, even after hours of trying to calibrate the set. It is too bad because it was about half the price of the Sony. Oh well. It is just TV right?


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

gweempose said:


> I was always a die hard plasma guy, but ever since I got my 70" Sharp Elite, I'm now a local dimming LCD convert. I really love my 60" Elite Kuro, but the Sharp is so much brighter and the picture has way more "pop".


The short time (1 year?) the Sharp Elites were available, they bested the plasmas. Too bad they didn't sell better, but the price was quite high.


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## DougJohnson (Dec 12, 2006)

ncted said:


> You didn't really say how much you wanted to spend. Here is the best 65" TV you can buy today for watching TV/Movies IMHO:
> 
> http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/ef9500?uxtv=265f


My 12 year old Fujitsu plasma went belly up just before New Year's. I bought the 55" version of this. It is *stunning*. Easily the best I have ever seen. True blacks, rich natural colors, incredible detail. Some of Amazon's 4k streaming must be seen to be believed. I haven't signed up for Netflix's 4K service, but I might.

I wasn't really interested in the Smart features because my Roamio is plenty smart, but I find myself using the TV's Amazon and Netflix apps because they look better.

The LG OLED TVs are not cheap. But if you are willing to go there, you won't regret it.

-- Doug


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

ncted said:


> I WAS severely disappointed. It was the panel that went, and, essentially, they had shut down the factory line that made them, so they prioritized the available stock of parts for in-warranty customers over out-of-warranty customers. I did have a Best Buy service contract, and, since there were no new plasmas to sell me, they refunded my original purchase price, which paid for my 70" Sony UHD set, but I would still rather have my plasma back. I wish it had stuck around another year or two, so I could have afforded an OLED to replace it.


So just bad timing with the death of plasma TVs and thus the factory shutdown? Good thing that you had the Best Buy extended warranty. I've been happy with our 65" Panasonic plasma and fingers crossed that it lasts a long time.

Scott


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## robnalex (Sep 8, 2002)

eric102 said:


> OLED is the way to go if you can afford it. When/if my Pioneer plasmas ever die that's the way I'm going.


Same here. My Panny Plasma TH-50PHD6UY is still going strong. I'm hoping that by the time it dies the OLED prices will be lower.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

HerronScott said:


> So just bad timing with the death of plasma TVs and thus the factory shutdown? Good thing that you had the Best Buy extended warranty. I've been happy with our 65" Panasonic plasma and fingers crossed that it lasts a long time.
> 
> Scott


Yep. Just bad luck. Most of my bad luck has come at the expense of Samsung over the years. I hope the experience is better with Panasonic plasmas for your sake. I could have gotten a Panny when I got my Samsung, but it was a fairly bright room, and the Samsungs did better in those conditions.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2016)

ncted said:


> The short time (1 year?) the Sharp Elites were available, they bested the plasmas. Too bad they didn't sell better, but the price was quite high.


Bested the plasmas where? Size? Brightness? Price?

Very few metrics they were better than Plasmas - and not the metrics most who want quality really care about.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Bested the plasmas where? Size? Brightness? Price?
> 
> Very few metrics they were better than Plasmas - and not the metrics most who want quality really care about.


Contrast, black levels, overall picture quality. Definitely not price. Some plasmas that came later beat the Sharp Elite PRO-X5FD, but in 2010, that was not the case.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

ncted said:


> I could have gotten a Panny when I got my Samsung, but it was a fairly bright room, and the Samsungs did better in those conditions.


5 1/2 years so far. Fingers crossed. 

Scott


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2016)

ncted said:


> Contrast, black levels, overall picture quality. Definitely not price. Some plasmas that came later beat the Sharp Elite PRO-X5FD, but in 2010, that was not the case.


You need to check your source.

As noted here, the Kuro Plasmas beat this TV, and they were pre the TV, not post.

http://www.cnet.com/products/sharp-elite-pro-x5fd/

Admission: I did originally think you were talking about the Sharp Quatrons which were never that good. My bad on that one.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> You need to check your source.
> 
> As noted here, the Kuro Plasmas beat this TV, and they were pre the TV, not post.
> 
> ...


In my original post, I was referring to the plasmas available at the time. By the time the Sharp Elites came out, you could no longer get a Kuro, so the Sharps held the title of best TV the year they came out. Unfortunately, they were very expensive and did not sell enough for Sharp to continue to offer them. That is all I was really saying.

"The short time (1 year?) the Sharp Elites were available, they bested the plasmas."


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## Jayboy3 (Jan 2, 2010)

eric102 said:


> Do they still need darkish rooms?


Projectors. Yes, but they've gotten much better and much brighter in that regard. Not an impediment anymore. Ambient light might detract from the most high end movie watching experience. But not a factor for everyday viewing. A 2000 dollar projector is so bright these days.


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