# First Impressions From A FIOS User



## NullQwerty (Jan 20, 2009)

I've been on FIOS for about 2-3 years now. Their DVR/Cable Box software was awful to start. But over the years it has gotten a lot better. Alas, the Tivo Premier went on sale for $99 and I decided to jump ship and give it a shot (I bought it the day before the increase in monthly fees, so I've got the old pricing).

I've gotta say, while it's got some cool stuff going on that I can't get anywhere else, overall I'm disappointed. In fact, I just inquired about returning it, but between the restocking fee and shipping, I'm not sure it's worth it or not to return it.

Here's my pros and cons list after 2 days:

Pros:
* You can block out channels from the guide (rather than only being able to set favorites). This is a great way to get rid of stations you don't watch and sd channels when you have the hd equivalent.
* YouTube app works well.
* Search function that searches your dvr recordings, upcoming tv shows, youtube, Netflix, amazon on demand, blockbuster on demand&#8230;is very cool. And you can remove what you don&#8217;t want.
* Guide info is great and gives you a lot of details, and is actually accurate about being a repeat versus a new showing
* Ability to create a wish list to record is cool
* Makes suggestions for shows/movies based on your history. You can also set it to record suggestions automatically when you&#8217;ve got the space.
* There&#8217;s a thumbs up and down button that you can hit from almost anywhere to improve the suggestions they make.
* You can do things like:
....Go To DVR Recordings -> Two and a half men 
........Then you get options like:
............Find videos on YouTube/Netflix
............Find similar shows
............View Cast -> Charlie Sheen
................And then see the options:
....................View upcoming shows/movies starring Charlie Sheen
....................Find videos on YouTube/Netflix
....................Etc.
............Etc.
* You can browse for content by things like "Most Popular", "Sci Fi", and the results will include TV, Netflix, Amazon, etc...and allow you to load there or schedule recordings
* Full episode guides for shows. You can choose any episode of any season and it'll tell you when it's coming on next and allow you to record it, or possibly watch on Netflix


So, those are all cool. However, the cons are pretty severe because they&#8217;ll be a constant daily annoyance. And they&#8217;re almost inexcusable.


Cons:
* No Exit Button -- Leaving a menu when you&#8217;re 10 fold deep can take another 10 clicks. Sometimes you can bypass it by hitting a Live TV button, sometimes you can&#8217;t. So it&#8217;s not even consistent. This is when you&#8217;re in a common menu like &#8220;My recorded shows&#8221;.
* No Back Button -- While in menus, to get to the previous menu it could take 4-5 clicks. Take search for example. You're on the video, left click to get back to the alphabet search, left to get to the previous letter, repeat 3 times, another one to get to the previous menu. And, each left click incurs a 1/2-1 second delay...it's not fast 
* Guide shows the name of the current show far away from the description of it, causing your eyes to have to shift up and down. 
* When browsing the guide, there is a 1 second delay before that description/info populates
* Guide can be hard to read &#8211; Font is too small (and I've got 20/20) and there&#8217;s no way to change it (as far as I can tell).
* When you scroll the guide, as you get to the bottom and hit down to go further, it has to load so it&#8217;s briefly empty and then finally loads&#8230;annoying. It&#8217;ll be like that for every single down click you make after that.
* The aspect ratio for SD content doesn&#8217;t properly size itself as often as it did with my old FIOS box
* A few channels had that weird soap opera affect, where the fluidity of the people moving made it impossible to watch.
* Big Volume differences when changing channels sometimes. I'll often have to change the volume after I change the channel. Never had that before.
* Going into the Tivo Central area (where you&#8217;re DVR recordings are) causing everything to mute for 2-3 seconds and the entire screen goes black for a couple of seconds till it finally loads. Makes it feel very sluggish and is definitely annoying. This isn't limited to Tivo Central either. It happens with other menus and just doesn't bode well for Tivo.
* Netflix app not nearly as good as it is on the PS3. You can only access your instant queue and can&#8217;t browse for new content from the app (but I guess it&#8217;s better than no Netflix app) and it's slow. Also, the picture quality isn't nearly as good.
* Channel changing is slowwwww
* No clock on the front display -- why Tivo...why? You could have let me turn it off if you wanted to.
* Clock in guide has translucent background and thin font making it almost impossible to read. When you want to know how much of a show is left while browing the guide, this is really annoying.
* No channel logos in the guide. I hear that maybe should be there, but I don&#8217;t have them.
* Some channels not as crisp (in video quality) as they were before.
* The features that make Tivo Cool like Browsing for content and exploring cast and their other shows, etc, is very slow to the point that it's annoying enough that I doubt I'll use it often. Every arrow click is a 1 second delay, and images take a couple of seconds to load. Makes what should be a 10 minute experience take 30 minutes.



For the most part, I think they could address these cons and fix them and I don't think it would be too hard for them (being a software engineer myself). But based on their history that I've been reading, I have very little confidence they will. Maybe in a couple of years, but by then I'll have definitely jumped ship.

So I write this for 2 reasons: First for FIOS users to know what they're getting into. Second, for the hopes that Tivo will read about a new users experience and hopefully take the complaints seriously.

I'm gonna give it another week. After that, I might suck up the $25 return fee and just send it back.


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## plazman30 (Jan 23, 2005)

For #1, hit the Tivo button. It'll take you back to main menu from anywhere.
For #2, hit the left arrow on the top pad. That backs you out to the previous menu you were in.
For #6, use the channel up and channel down keys to scroll through the guide. A heck of a lot faster.

You can enable a small clock on the bottom left corner of the screen by watching a recorded show and typing SELECT-PLAY-SELECT-9-SELECT

Enable 30 second skip by watching a recorded show and pressing SELECT-PLAY-SELECT-3-0-SELECT. 30 second skip is awesome!


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

A couple suggestions:

1. Try the SD menus -- they're faster, and use bigger fonts.
2. Try using a fixed output mode that's appropriate for your TV. This might address both "slow" channel changes and "not as crisp" images.

Some of your objections I don't really understand, but then I've never had a Fios HD DVR, only an SD STB. For the aspect ratio, try the "Zoom" button -- one of the three modes is bound to be what you want.


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## NullQwerty (Jan 20, 2009)

Thanks for the suggestions guys! I'll give them a shot. I'm hoping it's just an adjustment/relearning period and I'll grow to love it...time will tell. The minor gripes like (no exit button) I can deal with. It's really the sluggishness, temporary muting/black screens, difficult guide...That's the stuff that I have a hard time with. We'll see though. Maybe I won't notice it with a little more time.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

--Also Netflix on the TiVo allows Native resolution output. So if it's 480P it's output as 480P and if it's 720P it's output as 720P. With the PS3 you are stuck with one resolution output. And any time the PS3 scales anything, it is noticebaly worse than the equipment I have doing the scaling.

--A clock was nice on my S3 but I do not miss it. I do miss the display that showed what was being recorded, but not the clock.

--Any channels with a soap opera effect is not caused from the Tivo.

--I've never had any aspect ratio problems unless they were from the actual channel.


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## wkearney99 (Dec 5, 2003)

Current time is available by bringing up the program's info. Yes, a front-panel clock would be nice, but it would add a cost to the unit (and many folks would probably turn it off anyway). 

As has been mentioned, the left-arrow generally takes you back to the previous menu screen. Likewise the suggestion for using fixed-output. 

Aspect mode is a tricky thing. More often than not I leave it alone, as most of what I watch now is already in widescreen HD. I previously used the Zoom mode often for SD programs, but not as much anymore. Can't really explain why, but it's nice to have the option. I've used other STBs that didn't have the feature at all and I would miss it. 

I've never had the Live TV button not jump right back to it. 

Yes, the Netflix client suck ass. 

Yes, the guide is slow. This is the SINGLE BIGGEST REASON I WILL NOT UPGRADE TO A PREMIER. I have no desire to put up with even slower screens than before. It is a great mistake for Tivo to have not improved the speed of the UI. It's an unforgivable one to have made it EVEN SLOWER by clogging it up with all the graphic clutter.


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## JimboG (May 27, 2007)

One other big advantage to the TiVo is the ability to take content from your set top box and transfer it to a computer. You then can burn it to DVD, archive it, transcode and transfer to your iPhone, etc.

Fios recently enabled the copy protection flag for some "cable" content, but you still can copy and play with content that came from the broadcast stations.


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## NullQwerty (Jan 20, 2009)

wkearney99 said:


> Yes, the guide is slow. This is the SINGLE BIGGEST REASON I WILL NOT UPGRADE TO A PREMIER. I have no desire to put up with even slower screens than before. It is a great mistake for Tivo to have not improved the speed of the UI. It's an unforgivable one to have made it EVEN SLOWER by clogging it up with all the graphic clutter.


Agree...the rest I can deal with or learn new ways of handling it. But sluggishness, muting and flashing blank screens, etc...that I just can't. It sets me back so many years. It's why I originally hated the FIOS dvr and then they finally fixed it.

I'm gonna try the SD one out again, however I had it enabled and it wasn't crisp at all in comparison, making it less readable.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

NullQwerty said:


> ...But sluggishness, muting and flashing blank screens, etc...


That definitely sounds like the TV's problem of switching video formats.

Settings & messages > Settings > Video > Video Output Formats > Auto Detect

The TiVo will detect the "preferred" video format for your TV, and set the output to only that format. I just ran that through my Premiere, and it detected 1080i as my TV's preferred. Now when I go from the TiVo menus (720p) to live TV, or change channels, the TiVo scales (if needed) and always outputs only 1080i, so my TV doesn't have to detect whether it's 480p, 720p, 1080i or 1080p and adjust accordingly. I'd say give that a shot and see if that helps out any! :up:


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## NullQwerty (Jan 20, 2009)

orangeboy said:


> That definitely sounds like the TV's problem of switching video formats.
> 
> Settings & messages > Settings > Video > Video Output Formats > Auto Detect
> 
> The TiVo will detect the "preferred" video format for your TV, and set the output to only that format. I just ran that through my Premiere, and it detected 1080i as my TV's preferred. Now when I go from the TiVo menus (720p) to live TV, or change channels, the TiVo scales (if needed) and always outputs only 1080i, so my TV doesn't have to detect whether it's 480p, 720p, 1080i or 1080p and adjust accordingly. I'd say give that a shot and see if that helps out any! :up:


Thanks. I actually have it set up the same way as you. Interestingly enough, my TV supports all those modes, and Tivo says it supports all those modes, so I checked each one off and saved it. But it always sets it back to 1080i. Tried a few times. Thanks anyway though! I'll mess with the aspect ratio options more to see what I can get.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

My TV has an info button on it that displays the output format. I know when I have 720p and 1080i checked (and those settings stick - I think the settings not sticking is a known bug), I can hit the TV's info button and confirm that one channel is 720p and another is 1080i. If your TV has the same or similar functionality, can you confirm that TV is reporting that the TiVo menus are 1080i when only that box is checked on the TiVo?


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Yep the PRemiere is sluggish and the implementations of Netflix, and other broadband features are behind the times. 

Those are my 2 major complaints too.

3rd being the recording software could have improved more in the last 6 years than it did. There are a few areas that rear their heads after years of using Tivo that could use some refining.

I think there should be a clock on the menu screens myself. A hardware clock you can always set up yourself.


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## wkearney99 (Dec 5, 2003)

Some TVs do a terrible job scaling the signal that gets sent to them. I've found the scaler in the Tivo usually does a better job than a lot of TVs. So setting the Tivo to one particular resolution usually ends up working better that letting the TV do it.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

wkearney99 said:


> Some TVs do a terrible job scaling the signal that gets sent to them. I've found the scaler in the Tivo usually does a better job than a lot of TVs. So setting the Tivo to one particular resolution usually ends up working better that letting the TV do it.


But it's still lacking. compared to my external scaler/deinterlacer the TiVo does a terrible job. But for casual viewing i guess it's OK.

I guess I easily notice the poorer deinterlacers/scalers in the TVs and STBs since I've been using external scalers/deinterlacers since 2002 to bypass those devices.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

wkearney99 said:


> Yes, the guide is slow. This is the SINGLE BIGGEST REASON I WILL NOT UPGRADE TO A PREMIER. I have no desire to put up with even slower screens than before.


Well, the guide isn't any slower -- they haven't upgraded that. In fact it's faster, since the Premiere is faster. (The whole SDUI is noticeably faster.)


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

NullQwerty said:


> So, those are all cool. However, the cons are pretty severe because they'll be a constant daily annoyance. And they're almost inexcusable.
> 
> Cons:
> * No Exit Button -- Leaving a menu when you're 10 fold deep can take another 10 clicks. Sometimes you can bypass it by hitting a Live TV button, sometimes you can't. So it's not even consistent. This is when you're in a common menu like "My recorded shows".
> ...


These two have been pretty much addressed in this thread since left takes you to the previous screen. Also I just hit the TiVo button to take me out of menus. It is an old habit and I don't think I realized early on left took you back a menu unless it told you so it has been a tough habit to break.



NullQwerty said:


> * Guide shows the name of the current show far away from the description of it, causing your eyes to have to shift up and down.
> * When browsing the guide, there is a 1 second delay before that description/info populates
> * Guide can be hard to read - Font is too small (and I've got 20/20) and there's no way to change it (as far as I can tell).
> * When you scroll the guide, as you get to the bottom and hit down to go further, it has to load so it's briefly empty and then finally loads&#8230;annoying. It'll be like that for every single down click you make after that.


This I think comes down to usage. Personally since owning a TiVo, about 10 years now, I have never gone into the guide. I have never found a use for it. I associate it with live tv which I never watch. If I want to browse for programming I go into record by time or channel. I then either focus on a couple channels or on my favorites while only looking at prime time. This is to set season passes though since I always have enough recorded or recording to find something to watch. I think Orangeboy can verify that .

As far as the rest, most of it has been touched on. While the Premiere isn't super fast, I have no speed issues to complain about at least how I use the TiVo.


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## NullQwerty (Jan 20, 2009)

If you don't use the guide or watch much live tv, then yeah...Tivo is pretty darn cool. But if you do use the guide often and watch plenty of live tv...then it's short comings become very apparent. It's clearly an area that they've neglected. The fact that they're not caching the guide better so that when you scroll it, it doesn't turn black and have to load, is pretty bad.

Really for me, it's come down to the question...do I think they're going to improve this? If not, I have to return. If yes, then I should probably hold out if it's coming in the near future. From what I can tell from reading the forums, the entire software has improved since the Premiere was released. So that shows signs of hope. But, I haven't been able to find any threads regarding any upcoming firmware/software updates. Is there one in the pipeline? Or do updates not usually get announced ahead of time? How often are there updates and do they tend to address a lot of items or are they minor updates?

Thanks


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

NullQwerty said:


> If you don't use the guide or watch much live tv, then yeah...Tivo is pretty darn cool. But if you do use the guide often and watch plenty of live tv...then it's short comings become very apparent. It's clearly an area that they've neglected. The fact that they're not caching the guide better so that when you scroll it, it doesn't turn black and have to load, is pretty bad.
> 
> Really for me, it's come down to the question...do I think they're going to improve this? If not, I have to return. If yes, then I should probably hold out if it's coming in the near future. From what I can tell from reading the forums, the entire software has improved since the Premiere was released. So that shows signs of hope. But, I haven't been able to find any threads regarding any upcoming firmware/software updates. Is there one in the pipeline? Or do updates not usually get announced ahead of time? How often are there updates and do they tend to address a lot of items or are they minor updates?
> 
> Thanks


Well we believe a new guide is in the works. If you watch the video about the Virgin TiVo for the UK you will catch a glimpse of what people think will be the new guide and channel banner just in blue rather than red.

Also what guide are you using? The TiVo Live guide is much quicker and usually the more popular choice, but not the default from what I remember. The grid guide was always slow. I just checked the live guide and it is pretty much instant.

My question to you would be why do you watch a lot of live TV or browse the guide often? I know I did initially when I first got my TiVo, but that quickly changed.

TiVo tends to be very tight lipped about updates. Usually we will hear when a new update gets a soft roll-out which should be soon for the iPad app. No clue though on what else if anything will be included. They pretty much roll out an update to a small random group and see if any calls come in with issues. If no issues they then do the mass roll-out. They seem to be on a 4-6 weeks time frame between updates.

Also since you are on FiOS make sure you check out tools like KMTTG and PyTiVo and Streambaby.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

(I don't have TiVo Premiere but rather a TiVo HD. Yes, I've heard the newer HD UI is slow but one can revert to the faster classic UI.)


NullQwerty said:


> If you don't use the guide or watch much live tv, then yeah...Tivo is pretty darn cool. But if you do use the guide often and watch plenty of live tv...then it's short comings become very apparent.


Once one uses TiVo for awhile, you'll find yourself almost never watching live TV anymore. I just set SPs for everything, even the news. I also rarely look at the guide. I've been a TiVo user since 2001.

Agreed about exiting via pressing the TiVo button. It doesn't need an exit button.

I had to borrow Verizon's HD DVR for about a week (in the past year) when my TiVO HD's hard drive went belly up and I was running tests on the drive and waiting for an image. Boy.... their DVR wasn't terrible from a feature bullet point POV, but boy, there's no way I could use that on a long term basis compared to my TiVo HD. Capacity was way too limited, UI was not nearly as good and there were too many missing features for me.

I can't speak to "Going into the Tivo Central area (where you're DVR recordings are) causing everything to mute for 2-3 seconds and the entire screen goes black for a couple of seconds till it finally loads" but I have a guess along w/the slow channel changing. Is your TV switching modes when you change channels or jump into TiVo UI? Example: You could be going between 480i, 720p, 1080i and so on, depending on the output format of the show and TiVo UI.

If so, that's likely where the slowness is coming from. Lock the output on the TiVO to a fixed resolution like 1080i. (For me it's under Messages & Settings > Settings > Video > Video Output Format. I set mine to 1080i fixed.)

To also echo innocentfreak's questions, which guide are you using? The grid guide has always been slow as wasn't even available in standalone TiVos until many years after TiVo was introduced. The TiVo style guide is much quicker and more space efficient.


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## teewow (Oct 7, 2010)

One of the best features (IMHO) of Tivo Premiere is being able to RECORD a web video podcast ... I am not talking about streaming a web podcast (read: buffering issues / slow / unreliable).

I watch a ton of web videos ... they get recorded automatically when the next episode is available. A good example is GeekBeat.TV.

When I ready to watch ... its played from the hard drive.

Try watching a NASA HD show via streaming ... you will know how much better it is to record and watch.


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## NullQwerty (Jan 20, 2009)

cwerdna said:


> Agreed about exiting via pressing the TiVo button. It doesn't need an exit button.
> :
> :
> Lock the output on the TiVO to a fixed resolution like 1080i. (For me it's under Messages & Settings > Settings > Video > Video Output Format. I set mine to 1080i fixed.)
> ...


So, I knew I wasn't going crazy. Maybe in the old Tivo UI the Tivo button always exited you, but in the new one, that's not the case. Take for example, last night I was in the settings for the guide. When I was all done I remembered what everyone from this forum was saying and I hit the Tivo button. Nothing. Hit it again...Nothing. Had to hit either guide or Live TV or left arrow or something. I'm sure there's other areas of the UI where this is the case.

Not a huge deal though. It's just a minor annoyance, but a reason why they should create an exit button IMO. Just to make things fluid and consistent. When I think "Hit Tivo Button" I think I want to go to Tivo Central, not that I want to exit the menu I'm in. If they do use the Tivo button for it, just make sure it's consistent and always works. Whatever though...no biggie...it's just different. I can get used to it as you all have.

My TV is set to just 1080i also. I'd rather it pass through and let the TV do all the upscaling and stuff. I have a nice Sammy that's known to be good at it. But again...whatever...no biggie.

The guide is a biggie for me. I'm the type that uses it often and when I do I scroll quickly and so the whole guide not loading thing is rough for me. To answer the questions, yes it is the grid guide that I am using. I tried the the SD ui and was surprised to see that it was also plagued by the same issue. So I went back to HD and I tried the Live guide but for some odd reason they chose to give it a translucent background making it difficult to read. I'm also not a fan of the layout of it...not easy to quickly read.

The other biggie for me is the volume differences between channels. I now realize that Verizon's boxes had something in it to control that. I never had to adjust the volume after changing a channel. It's now required 3 out of every 4 times. Sometimes the difference is really drastic.

One positive note though is that with all the complaints I've heard about the HD UI speed, this must have been significantly addressed by Tivo, because I didn't notice any significant speed differences between the two (and I'm the type that definitely would...see rant above).

Overall though, I'm leaning towards giving it a year with hopes that these will be addressed. Considering popping in a 2TB also.


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## NullQwerty (Jan 20, 2009)

teewow said:


> One of the best features (IMHO) of Tivo Premiere is being able to RECORD a web video podcast ... I am not talking about streaming a web podcast (read: buffering issues / slow / unreliable).
> 
> I watch a ton of web videos ... they get recorded automatically when the next episode is available. A good example is GeekBeat.TV.
> 
> ...


I haven't explored the video podcasts yet, but being an audio podcast listener, I am excited about that option. Thanks for the heads up!


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## dpalbsp (Dec 11, 2006)

I also got the FIOS CableCard installed on my Premiere and I agree with you on the guide, I guess I miss the different color schemes for different shows in the guide.

I am having another issue with Season Passes, I created a season pass for IRT Deadliest Roads (History Channel) and I selected new show only, I know that on Sunday 12/5 at 6 PM PST the new episode is going to Air, I can see this in guide as well as in Tivo search, but still Tivo will record all the episodes on Sunday 12/5 starting from 2PM onwards, I connected to Tivo service to download the guide info again, deleted the SP and re-created the SP but still no change.
My FIOS DVR on the other hand will only record the new episode. I was under the impression that the Tivo would be more accurate. It looks like even though the Tivo SP pass was created using the New episodes only option, internally for some reason it has selected New & Repeat.

I don't know if I am doing something wrong.

Thanks,


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

On average, the TiVo _will_ be more accurate. However, it can vary on a case-by-case (i.e., show-by-show) basis. TiVo and Verizon use different sources for their guide data, and although TiVo's supplier (Tribune) is considered better than Verizon's overall, there may be instances in which Verizon has the better data.

There are no grounds for thinking that "internally for some reason it has selected New & Repeat". If you look at the guide data for the repeat episodes that are scheduled to record, you'll probably see that they have a generic description of the show rather than a description of the specific episode. In other words, Tribune doesn't know what the episode will be. In these cases, the TiVo will record, just to be on the safe side.

Unfortunately there are a number of shows that only have proper data for their new episodes, and label all reruns with the generic data. It's possible to construct a wishlist to reject the generic episodes in these cases, but it's a bit tedious. Meanwhile, you can cancel individual episodes from recording without altering the season pass.


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## dpalbsp (Dec 11, 2006)

Thanks for the reply, I checked the guide data and I see it shows 'R' (which I think represents that this is a repeat), so I was wondering why Tivo still wants to record it because the guide data has the info if the episode is a repeat or not.

I also miss the small video window which FIOS DVR has when you are in the guide, I am used to use the guide a lot for browsing for shows and the small video window was good. Also one more thing I miss is bring up the info window and then use the channel button to scroll through the info for different channels but still keep watching the same channel.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

TiVo uses a 28 day rule for repeats. If you setup a season pass for new only and the episode debuted in the last 28 days, it will record it if it doesn't show it previously recorded it. 

So you will only have this happen initially because it doesn't know you previously saw the episodes from November since they were recorded on another DVR.


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## PapaArt (May 28, 2008)

dpalbsp said:


> Thanks for the reply, I checked the guide data and I see it shows 'R' (which I think represents that this is a repeat), so I was wondering why Tivo still wants to record it because the guide data has the info if the episode is a repeat or not.


If this is a new Tivo it will follow the 28 day rule. The Tivo ignores the 'R' and uses the 'Original Air Date' if present and will record any show within the last 28 days.

PapaArt


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## dpalbsp (Dec 11, 2006)

Thank you all, now it makes sense why my Tivo Premiere wants to record even though the episodes are repeat.


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## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

dpalbsp said:


> Thank you all, now it makes sense why my Tivo Premiere wants to record even though the episodes are repeat.


As for FiOS i have had 4 6416's both 1 and 2 versions, 2 7216's and a 7100-1 STB. I have had FiOS for 5 years. I think its safe to say I am an experienced FiOS DVR user so please beleive me when i say this, Verizon FiOS DVR's _SUCK_ worse than anything has _ever_ sucked before.
From the unreliable guide to poor menu UI to software updates that screw up more than they fix. The one exception being the content offered in FiOS On Demand, if you have a nice package with FiOS you get a lot of On Demand thats "sort of" free, i mean your paying for it, but its structured to make you think its free. Outside of that a TiVo is superior to s FiOS DVR is everry aspect. The PQ and amount of content, especially HD content FiOS makes available combined with great internet speeds make the costs almost worth every penny. As cost effective as it can be for little flashes of light. Get a TiVo, a mcard from Verizon and enjoy, if you do this from day one with FiOS you will never miss the On Demand. FiOS needs to make a deal with TiVo and get a decent DVR.
I will say i have not had or played with one of the new 500 gig Motorola STBs FiOS is not placing on new installs but they have a long track record of terrible DVR's so i see no reason to expect anything different.
My TiVo's both work great!


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

I bought 3 directv tivo remotes brand new off ebay for the HR10-250 that work with all of my Premiere and TivoHD's specifically for the EXIT and LIST button. 15 dollars and problem solved.:up:


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Just beware since you now lose some of the shortcuts like the A,B,C,D button which wasn't on previous remotes.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

EXIT is the same as CLEAR, isn't it?


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## shaggy2002 (Dec 15, 2007)

i have had fios for over 5 years. THE FIOS DVR IS HORRIBLE. To those that love the fios guide? not sure why, it is overcrowded and confusing. Oh and the fact that I can only get 35 hours in SD on the fiosdvr, its around 10 hours if in HD. If the premiere is really that bad to you, maybe look for a TivoHD. I am about to give my last FIOS DVR back and purchase a Tivo Premeire. I have two Tivo HDs and love them. If the guide is slow, I am willing to pay the price. It is all about functionality and disk space. You can take the premeire to 2 TB while the fios is still stocked with a 160 GB dive. There are MP3 players out there with more drive space than my fios dvr. I realize they are talking about bigger ones, but if they are coming out with them, they should tell their customers. Give the Premiere a couple weeks, it may just be that you will need to get used to it and learn it a bit. Good luck to whatever you decide, but the fiosdvr to me is worthless.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Reminds me one time when the FiOS twitter rep was complaining about only having limited space on his MP3 player, and someone responded with something like I know can you believe it. It is almost like having a DVR with only 20 HD hours.


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## jsprung (Aug 29, 2002)

After leaving Directv after 8 years ( I did have series 1 Tivo and DirecTivo), I recently picked up 3 Premiers and one Fios HD DVR. Although the On Demand is pretty cool, I despise the guide. Even for live TV I find the Tivo to be much much better. 

I have a matrix switcher so it is very easy for me to switch from one DVR to the other so I can have the best of both worlds when I want (mainly On Demand). Having said that I am seriously considering getting rid of the Fios box and just getting a 4th Tivo. Thats how much I prefer the Tivo for what its worth.


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## jenz (Sep 19, 2009)

I agree with the prior post, but I'm not nearly as emotional about it. I have 2 P-XLs and 1 Verizon 7216. As a pure DVR, the Tivo crushes the Verizon box except I do miss the color coded guide from Verizon. The Verizon box suffers from minimal storage and the lack of recording finesse (overlap, live extend, first run, etc). Yet, due to the massive amounts of VOD content, it is nice to have a Verizon box, too.

If I had to choose between them at this point, I pick the Tivo easily. 1TB > 160GB plus I can transfer between boxes to simulate multi-room DVR.

This written, I have a 500GB 7232 en route to replace my 160GB 7216. I'll still pick the Tivo, but the Verizon software is due for a HD refresh over the next 2 months, so the gap will narrow.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

jsprung said:


> After leaving Directv after 8 years ( I did have series 1 Tivo and DirecTivo), I recently picked up 3 Premiers and one Fios HD DVR. Although the On Demand is pretty cool, I despise the guide. Even for live TV I find the Tivo to be much much better.
> 
> I have a matrix switcher so it is very easy for me to switch from one DVR to the other so I can have the best of both worlds when I want (mainly On Demand). Having said that I am seriously considering getting rid of the Fios box and just getting a 4th Tivo. Thats how much I prefer the Tivo for what its worth.


If you only want FiOS VOD, then you can save a few dollars by getting the STB. The VOD is the same as the DVR. I used to have one, but found I could find the bulk of the content elsewhere at better quality than FiOS VOD. So I turned it in to save the $10 a month. I've never missed it.


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## jsprung (Aug 29, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> If you only want FiOS VOD, then you can save a few dollars by getting the STB. The VOD is the same as the DVR. I used to have one, but found I could find the bulk of the content elsewhere at better quality than FiOS VOD. So I turned it in to save the $10 a month. I've never missed it.


I was originally going to do that but since I was a new Fios installation I knew I could get the most recent set top box so I figured "why not".


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

wmcbrine said:


> EXIT is the same as CLEAR, isn't it?


no. From live TV press the tivo button and then the clear button. It won't get you back to live TV. A true exit button like the HR10-250 had gets you back to wherever you were. It also exits recordings you may be watching. And the list button gets you to the list of recordings with one button press. And the buttons are n the right place for your fingers, not at the bottom of the remote. I find it amazing how Directv way back then designed the perfect Tivo remote for its HDtivo which Tivo itself has yet to produce many many years later.


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

innocentfreak said:


> Just beware since you now lose some of the shortcuts like the A,B,C,D button which wasn't on previous remotes.


Never even thought about using those buttons. LOL


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Something will show up that makes use of them eventually.


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## Judremy (Jun 28, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> Something will show up that makes use of them eventually.


I keep thinking they are copying Blu-Ray playesr since those have 4 buttons with the different colors too. Maybe some kind of interactivity?


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## NullQwerty (Jan 20, 2009)

vurbano said:


> I bought 3 directv tivo remotes brand new off ebay for the HR10-250 that work with all of my Premiere and TivoHD's specifically for the EXIT and LIST button. 15 dollars and problem solved.:up:


I've got a Harmony 880. I wonder if I can program those buttons. Have to research that...


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

and eventually they will complete the HD menu system


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> Something will show up that makes use of them eventually.


My Shows makes use of them now: (A) options (B) sort (C) groups


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

orangeboy said:


> My Shows makes use of them now: (A) options (B) sort (C) groups


I guess I just use it on a basic level. AS long as recordings are grouped by show and accessable with pressing the list button and recent ones on top I really don't care for extra colored button presses. Anything I really want to keep is transferred to PC, processed by VideoRedo and stored on Hard drives or BluRay. I guess its hard to explain but bottom line is there is nothing motivating me to go put batteries in the original Premeire remote just as there is nothing motivating me to try and use that god awfull, slow and incomplete HD menu system.


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## NullQwerty (Jan 20, 2009)

Welp, I did it...had to go for the return, frustrations just got too high. It's a shame because Tivo is superior in many ways, however it was inferior in a few ways that were really important to me. So for me, the cons outweighed the pros. If some of the items on my pros list, like all the bonus features for example, weren't so sluggish, I would have kept it.

I'm still looking for a better solution than I got though, so I think I'll be placing an order for a cable card tuner and giving the Windows Media Center 7 route a shot.


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## wkearney99 (Dec 5, 2003)

I've got several playback options, WM7, boxee, tivo, wd live and a couple of other choices (an HDMI-connected home theatre PC). Truth be told the Tivo is the least hassle to work with on a daily basis. The rest are either too cluttered or tend to have a very inconsistent interface. For watching TV programs the Tivo really does shine as a reliable and consistently easy to use interface. 

Right now about the only reason I use WM7 is to stream the cut-off recordings from CBS on Sunday nights after sporting events. Otherwise it's really a pain in the ass to use. It just doesn't seem consistent. 

The rest are more or less just experiments. Yeah, they 'work' but I don't need all the features when I'm just trying to watch some TV. 

As for remotes, I've had Tivo since the DirecTV days and actually still used one of their remotes with my current TivoHD. Never once have I needed to use the exit or list buttons. Yeah, I could have, but in regular use I just never found them necessary. So I wouldn't put much credence to arguments complaining about their absence on the peanut remote.


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