# Alternative service up?



## ptruman (Jan 8, 2003)

http://www.altepg.com/

Posted on Facebook this morning.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

It's in Alpha test if you're feeling brave.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Can the required changes be done via your network card or do you have to pull the drive?

Automan.


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## alek (May 22, 2008)

I re imaged my drive, but I believe it's simple to adjust your existing one if you have a network card.

Dial up is still being developed but expected to be operating by June 1

Alek


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## CarlWalters (Oct 17, 2001)

Automan said:


> Can the required changes be done via your network card or do you have to pull the drive?
> 
> Automan.


PM sent. Not sure if we can post details here yet.


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## ptruman (Jan 8, 2003)

My S1 is currently boxed in the loft, but if/when the service is working I may donate it a family member.


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## steveroe (Oct 29, 2002)

The forum for the AltEpg service can be found here: http://www.tivoland.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=12

It may be better to join the discussions there rather than duplicating here.


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

Can one find ones TiVo service number from TiVoWeb (or Telnet ?) as I am at work at the moment and can't fully register without service number ?


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

It's on the tivowebplus info page.

[also PM sent with other method]


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

Sorted, thanks to Mikerr.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

CarlWalters said:


> PM sent. Not sure if we can post details here yet.


Carl PM sent


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

I am now on the AltEPG 

Quite easy to do but the process I used, like Carl's required a Clear & Delete Everything.

No CBS Channel data though at the moment 

Automan.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Automan said:


> Quite easy to do but the process I used, like Carl's required a Clear & Delete Everything.


Having to do a Clear and Delete Everything is totally and utterly unacceptable on my main Tivo. I have eight years worth of thumbs data I do not wish to lose and around 200 Season Passes and Wishlists not to mention many recordings still to watch.



> No CBS Channel data though at the moment


These were all in the original list of channels for which EPG data was due to be provided by the AltEPG project.

I have a non used Tivo I can use to test the AltEPG except that my communal aerial now turns out to have a signal so bad that I can't get any Freeview channels at the present (something has clearly happened to it as this was not the case two years ago when I alst tries to use the aerial socket) but until the AltEPG can go through Guided Setup without a Clear and Delete everything it is not Fit For Purpose in my opinion. Of course I'm sure this requirement comes from South Africa or Australia where they had purchased Tivo overseas with channel lineups and SPs that had nothing to do with the new owner. However I am equally sure that our boffins should be able to tweak the setup process so that a forced Clear and Delete Everything is not a requirement in order to use the AltEPG.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Pete77 said:


> Having to do a Clear and Delete Everything is totally and utterly unacceptable on my main Tivo. I have eight years worth of thumbs data I do not wish to lose and around 200 Season Passes and Wishlists not to mention many recordings still to watch.


That is only the method Carl & myself used.

Tools do exist to backup recordings and wishlist etc which you may already have (should your drive fail).

I myself was not worried about the contents so went for the wipe 

Automan.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Clear and delete is advised, but not absolutely necessary.

Guided setup is necessary though, but you won't lose recordings, or wishlists.

Existing SPs won't work because they're tied to tivos database IDs.
Back them up with the tivoweb module - a modified restore tivoweb module might appear soon.


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

mikerr said:


> Clear and delete is advised, but not absolutely necessary.
> 
> Guided setup is necessary though, but you won't lose recordings, or wishlists.
> 
> ...


Fantastic...just what the Dr ordered.

I seem to remember exporting my analogue season passes (years ago) and changing ID's to FreeView channels and reimporting. All worked fine season passes for BBC1 analogue now recorded BBC1 FreeView.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

mikerr said:


> Clear and delete is advised, but not absolutely necessary.
> 
> Guided setup is necessary though, but you won't lose recordings, or wishlists.
> 
> ...


Thanks to all concerned for saving our Tivo's from another trip to the tip 

Automan.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Yes, but all guide data shared the same database IDs in the now "legacy" ( ) system,
that's why you could change sky/freeview/cable lineup and retain SPs created on any.

Wishlists are stored as text search matches, so transfer ok.


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

mikerr said:


> Back them up with the tivoweb module - a modified restore tivoweb module might appear soon.


Thinking about this, modified restore would probably not work.

It would work fine for programmes/season passes that are currently being transmitted ie change old ID for new AltEPG ID, but what about programmes/season passes not currently being transmitted eg TopGear BBC2, there would probably not be a new AltEPG ID assigned yet.:down:

Unless of course the AltEPG crew could take a couple of peoples season pass files and assign AltEPG ID's in advance.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> Guided setup is necessary though, but you won't lose recordings, or wishlists.


I have no problem with re-running Guided Setup. I have done that in the past when moving my Tivo between Freeview, cable and satellite program sources but all in the same London tv region. But none of my Season Passes or thumbs or wishlists were ever lost due to re-running Guided Setup.



> Existing SPs won't work because they're tied to tivos database IDs.
> Back them up with the tivoweb module - a modified restore tivoweb module might appear soon.


What is the reason that the same TMSIDs could not have been retained? Presumably because a different ID exists in the originating EPG source and it seems like too much of a hassle to have a table to convert those to TMSIDs and/or not a sustainable long term solution?

I have been thinking of moving mainly to Wishlists instead of Season Passes for a long time on many programs due to the additional flexibility of making full use of the +1 channels regarding any clashes. I suppose this is now the moment. However there are programs such as Doctor Who and many Channel Four and Five shows that several months later (i.e. beyond the 28 day rule) turn up on More4, E4, 5USA, 5* etc where it is essential to use a Season Pass to avoid recording programs you have already seen. Unless someone can find a way of extending the 28 day rule to work forever? Of course there is your own Blocklist module/application but in my experience this does not work completely reliably and in this case would necessitate all the episodes of a program you have already seen being added to the Blockist text file.

However what about Thumbs data if I don't clear and delete everything? As those TMSIDs will now be orphaned in terms of future recording but the genres to which they are related will still exist will all my historic Thumbs choides still inform Suggestions going fowards? It is certainly going to be very annoying to have Thumb everything all over again including programs that one doesn't want to ever be recorded such as all forms of Football Program and most Reality Tv programs.:down::down::down:


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## Nimbus (May 29, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> Having to do a Clear and Delete Everything is totally and utterly unacceptable on my main Tivo.


Constructive as ever I see 

It might not be perfect, but its better than the alternative, and I for one am very grateful for it.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

I see wishlists work a little different.

Instead of Wayne, John it is now John Wayne so any old ones of these you have will need some kind of edit.

Also no program data for the free horror / movies for men, etc channels 

Automan.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Which is which?


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> What is the reason that the same TMSIDs could not have been retained? Presumably because a different ID exists in the originating EPG source and it seems like too much of a hassle to have a table to convert those to TMSIDs and/or not a sustainable long term solution?


Asked, and answered!

It was look at, but doing the mapping was IMHO harder than just getting folks to re-create their SPs. Which really doesn't take that long.



> However what about Thumbs data if I don't clear and delete everything? As those TMSIDs will now be orphaned in terms of future recording but the genres to which they are related will still exist will all my historic Thumbs choides still inform Suggestions going fowards? It is certainly going to be very annoying to have Thumb everything all over again including programs that one doesn't want to ever be recorded such as all forms of Football Program and most Reality Tv programs.:down::down::down:


Prepare to be annoyed (I knew there would be a hidden win to AltEPG!). As the channels, show IDs and even the genres (I think) are changing, historic Thumbs data is unlikely to work. Maybe the genres will, not sure where we ended up on that re: mapping to exiting or re-building from scratch.


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## ALanJay (Jun 14, 2000)

Congratulations to everyone working on this.

It sounds although not a seamless transition it could be a great deal worse.

What I wonder is if sometime before 1st June there will be a simple script or set of commands (assuming remembering nothing - ie how do you get it to r/w) that someone with a networked TiVo can use to change the collection of data and then re-run guided setup.

As like others I'd like to maintain the current programmes recorded on my TiVo.

Once again well done the community for coming to our rescue (and suitable boos and hisses to the people at Virgin for forcing the hand and the guys at TiVo for not having the good grace to answer the complaining emails sent to them).

Alan


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## ALanJay (Jun 14, 2000)

Now that is what I call support - made a suggestion for easy to follow instructions at 1:21 and just seen over on the other board the answer at 1:33


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

Automan said:


> Also no program data for the free horror / movies for men, etc channels


Don't forget the system is only in "alpha" test stage at the moment - it's not "live"  The other channels are coming...


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## DX30 (May 22, 2005)

Nimbus said:


> Constructive as ever I see
> 
> It might not be perfect, but its better than the alternative, and I for one am very grateful for it.


I totally agree. People work very hard to ensure TiVo's can continue after 1st June and what thanks do they get? A stream of abusive posts saying how poor AltEPG will be and how things will be totally unacceptable.


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

What about Tracker ?

I assume the 6 years worth of tracker logs would no longer work ?

Not a major issue, but we can allways start again.


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## Heuer (Mar 15, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> Having to do a Clear and Delete 'Pete77' is totally and utterly unacceptable on my main Tivo Forum. I have eight years worth of thumbs down comments I do not wish to lose and around 200 Stupid Posts and Wishlists not to mention many threads still to whine about.


:up::up::up::up::up::up::up:


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Prepare to be annoyed (I knew there would be a hidden win to AltEPG!). As the channels, show IDs and even the genres (I think) are changing, historic Thumbs data is unlikely to work. Maybe the genres will, not sure where we ended up on that re: mapping to exiting or re-building from scratch.


So the stark reality of the AltEPG is to potentially lose all Season Passes, Wishlists, Thumbs and recordings accumulated in the last eight and a half years. Even though those recordings, thumbs, SPs and Wishlists survived a major hard drive upgrade six years ago. Also the long term accumulation of all that data was one of my principle reasons for remaining a loyal Tivo user and not defecting elsewhere to another form of PVR.

Whilst it may be that we have no other choice for the AltEPG nonetheless this situation seems to be distinctly at odds with the bold claims of the some of the creators of the AltEPG that we would all be better off than before. Whilst the AltEPG is of course better than nothing it is clearly not as good as Tivo carrying on the existing EPG service.

A really substantial improvement in functionality that I would love to see and that might justify the pain of starting again with SPs etc would be Season Passes that could be made to operate on more than one channel and/or Wishlists that could be restricted to only operating on certain channels and if either of those things were in some way possible then I would be more enthusiastic about the new EPG service.

As it is with my two faithful Samsung HA250JCs now some six years old and with my stated Recording Capacity in System Information having ominously changed a while ago of its own volition from 613 hours at Basic and 175 hours at Best to 442 hours at Basic and 113 hours at Best (even though I cannot spot any recordings that have disappeared as part of this substantial reduction in capacity estimation after several years) the case seems to be made out for the potential acquisition of a 1.5TB SATA Samsung or similar drive and IDE to SATA converter and starting all over again with the Alt EPG service rather than trying to soldier on with the two Samsung HA250JCs.

In fact the most sensible thing to probably do is to upgrade and press in to service my second Tivo with a Network card for the AltEPG project whilst keeping my current Tivo as it is until all the recordings on it I want to watch have been watched.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

DX30 said:


> I totally agree. People work very hard to ensure TiVo's can continue after 1st June and what thanks do they get? A stream of abusive posts saying how poor AltEPG will be and how things will be totally unacceptable.


No this is just the constructive criticism of a crusty old stick in the mud who is very fond of all his thumbs and SPs that have continued to work over all these many years for certain programs.

Your reaction unfortunately seem all too typical of a volunteer who thinks that because they are unpaid that no one should be able to heap anything other than praise on their work. I personally really would be prepared to pay £5 a month for the new EPG so that we could be spared the pained hurt of those AltEPG volunteers with a martyr complex. The same sort of nonsense with the attitude of unpaid volunteers is all too often experienced with those who appoint themselves to the board of self run residents management companies of a block of flats.

And before anyone control freakish on the AltEPG project suggests banning my IP address I only have a one month contract with my current ISP and am more than prepared to move ISP if I suffer such victimisation. I also have four different working Tivos I can press in to service if someone should discover my first Tivo Service Number..............


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Pete77 said:


> potentially lose all Season Passes, Wishlists, Thumbs and recordings accumulated in the last eight and a half years.


You really are a glass completely empty type aren't you Pete ? 

You're also _wrong _on at least the two most important of those: 
recordings and wishlists can be retained when upgrading to the new EPG

Is it so hard to write down a list of Season Passes and recreate them ?
It'd take all of 5 minutes. 



> the AltEPG is clearly not as good as Tivo carrying on the existing EPG service.


Not that you've tried it...

See my screenshot a few posts above in post #23 (hint: the better one isn't the old one)


> if Season Passes that could be made to operate on more than one channel and/or Wishlists that could be restricted to only operating on certain channels [...] then I would be more enthusiastic about the new EPG service


altEPG = programme data, that's all - isn't that enough ?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> EPG = programme data, that's all - isn't that enough !


Correct but given that the current Season Passes actually already list instances of that program being shown on other channels I am sure that the facility for the SP to be told to also record versions of the program shown on another channel can probably be activated by a setting somewhere in the firmware.

Up to now we have not tinkered with the 2.5.5 firmware for obvious reasons but I suspect that in due course such tinkering will probably begin in earnest once we no longer have an official OEM Tivo service.

As to me being a glass half empty or fully empty person and all that I think you are ignoring the fact that one of the reasons for continuing using a Tivo is inertia. If people have to do a lot of work to keep their Tivo working they might then begin to consider the full range of alternative PVR options capable of recording programs in HD.


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## DX30 (May 22, 2005)

Pete77 said:


> Your reaction unfortunately seem all too typical of a volunteer who thinks that because they are unpaid that no one should be able to heap anything other than praise on their work.


I am not a volunteer on the AltEPG project, just a TiVo owner who is grateful for their efforts.

I'm afraid if you think you are offering "constructive criticism" you are wide of the mark. You really need to rethink your posting style.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

That last post simply shows you haven't the least idea what you are talking about (firmware?).

Recreating SPs is the work of minutes browsing the guide. And as for Thumbs, that just means you'll get some less than perfect suggestions for a day or two. Oh, the humanity!

You mentioned a while back you might be leaving the country. We could have a whip round for your fare if it would help?


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## steveroe (Oct 29, 2002)

At this point I'll take this thread slightly off topic, Pete77 style, and point to this little gem that was just mentioned over on one of the US forums "total ignore"


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

So for those of use that are going to switch to AltEPG, have registered to switch and are capable of editting the required TiVo script to get it working....when would be the best time to switch over ?

- Now ?
- June 1st ?
- When TiVo EPG runs out ?
- Wait a bit until more bugs (if any) are ironed out ?

I wish to keep recordings (still a lot to watch) so will be editting the script and rerunning guided setup to reconfigure my TiVo. I have a printout of all my season passes (all 214 of them ) and will just re-enter the more interesting ones.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Seems to work and as even started to record Tivo suggestions in under 24hrs of use.

I only have the free sky box channels and thus am not looking at the epg for every channel.

It finds programs to record with "William Shatner" in, and films starring "Gary Sinise".

As mentioned earlier, the CBS channels are blank but it is a "Work in progress".

One thought/concern is the cost of the project...

Even when something is free, folks can complain and the more users that use the system the more such issue may arise.

Plus of course the database needs a server or servers, electricity, a building with 24/7 power and of course a data connection to the web.

"Nothing is free in Waterworld" as we all know, so I was wondering about long term funding?

Of course, if there is a fee, that's when the complaints really start 

Automan.


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

@Ian_m
Well healeydave is obviously confident that the software is in its final version or he wouldn't be selling new discs like he is currently.


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

Automan said:


> I was wondering about long term funding?


Since the project is "sponsored" by Tivoland I would assume that they are covering the costs. :up:


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Ian_m said:


> So for those of use that are going to switch to AltEPG, have registered to switch and are capable of editting the required TiVo script to get it working....when would be the best time to switch over ?
> 
> - Now ?
> - June 1st ?
> ...


I suggest the answer is that if you currently have an unused unsubbed Tivo not doing anything and an alternative working program source for it (given that the AltEPG unfortunately does not support the internal tuner and that splitting a satellite signal from a single wall point does not work and that my Freeview signal here has become non existent due to non maintenance of the communal aerial since the communal satellite system was installed) then it could be made a test machine for the AltEPG.

However for any Tivo that you still actively use with lots of recordings, Thumbs, Season Passes and recordings on it you would be well advised to wait and see if the current Tivo service is actually cut off and/or if it is when it is cut off. Since there should be a daily download until either Tuesday May 31st or Wednesday June 1st that means that EPG data will not run out for even the main terrestrial channels until Sunday June 12th and for minor satellite channels there will be EPG data until Tuesday June 21st or Wednesday June 22nd.

In short for your main Tivo that you have valued recordings on you have another three weeks from this Saturday before you need to act. If you have a second Tivo then you might well give consideration to putting that in to service for the AltEPG and keeping your current Tivo as is until you have watched all the recordings on it.


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## Trinitron (Jan 20, 2003)

Pete77 said:


> In short for your main Tivo that you have valued recordings on you have another three weeks from this Saturday before you need to act. If you have a second Tivo then you might well give consideration to putting that in to service for the AltEPG and keeping your current Tivo as is until you have watched all the recordings on it.


More misinformation.  Running Guided Setup retains recordings.

As with any major software revisions a 'clean' install is better but in this case not at all essential.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Pete77 said:


> wait and see if the current Tivo service is actually cut off


Still in denial then?



Pete77 said:


> In short for your main Tivo that you have valued recordings on you have another three weeks from this Saturday before you need to act.


Read my lips: no need to lose recordings - its been mentioned several times now (just don't run clear and delete)


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

spitfires said:


> Since the project is "sponsored" by Tivoland I would assume that they are covering the costs. :up:


The AltEPG project clearly has a significant commercial value to both Tivoland and Tivocentral since it allows them to continue selling their upgraded Tivo hard drives and/or refurbushed and upgraded Tivos, a market that would otherwise disappear. Indeed I may well become a customer for a new upgraded drive for the AltEPG if I have to start again with thumbs and season passes as my two Samsung HA250HCs whilst still working after six years are showing some signs of wear including the occasional stutter while watching a recording and the mysterious disappearance of around 25% of my previously quoted Recording Capacity in System Information.

However I am also inclined to note that the current stock of Tivos held by Tivoland and Tivocentral actually becomes more valuable on June 1st as now any Tivo automatically has a Lifetime Subscription to the AltEPG.

For all of those reasons I was rather amazed to hear from Dave of Tivoland recently that the commercial funding of any cost items of the project did not apparently involve Tivocentral at that stage. Given that Mike had seemingly taken over the majority of the Tivo drive upgrade market in the last two years after the withdrawal of Tivoheaven (even though Dave of Tivoland still had part of it) I found it inexplicable that Mike would not also be equally involved in coordinating the AltEPG project from a funding point of view.

It is clear however that there are a large number of volunteers from overseas and in the UK with technical knowledge who are giving their time just out of their belief in the Tivo product and those who use it and because of their enjoyment of such a technical challenge and to those people I take my hat off even though I may appear to be grumpy ungrateful old so and so at times.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Trinitron said:


> More misinformation.  Running Guided Setup retains recordings.
> 
> As with any major software revisions a 'clean' install is better but in this case not at all essential.


The new AltEPG service is still in Alpha test. I choose not take the risk with a machine on which I have 600 recordings and thousands of thumbs and over 200 Season Passes and Wishlists until the AltEPG has been subjected to more Alpha and Beta testing.

I would immediately sign up my unused Tivo for the AltEPG Alpha test if I had a working program source for it. At the moment my communal aerial signal has deteriorated to a point where I cannot tune in any Freeview channel on my Netgem Iplayer Freeview box. A communal satellite point signal cannot be split in two sadly.


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## Leif_Davidsen (Jun 5, 2002)

I have upmost admiration for those involved in the AltEPG project who have put in countless hours as well as spending real money. 
I registered our 2 Tivos for the project yesterday - and decided to donate a fair sum to the project that should hopefully help defray some expenses. We may need to buy disks at some point in the future as long as the service continues and if that also helps pay back the time and effort to those involved - then good for them. They have got on and done stuff - not just talked about it


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

Leif_Davidsen said:


> They have got on and done stuff - not just talked about it


^ True but it was a bit of a closed shop - 67 people offered to help in various roles when it was still a community project. 63 of them were deemed unnecessary and have sat twiddling their thumbs for two months. They made life harder for themselves than necessary IMO.

(No not sour grapes or ingratitude; just stating a fact).


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

My understanding is that AltEPG is running on donated server space, modems etc. Introducing a fee is not an option as as soon as you do so the use use of the various EPG sources becomes illegal, as they are only licensed for non-commercial use.

I'm not privvy to Mike or Dave's finances, but if it provides more than an occasional bit of beer money these days I'd be surprised.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

spitfires said:


> ^ True but it was a bit of a closed shop - 67 people offered to help in various roles when it was still a community project. 63 of them were deemed unnecessary and have sat twiddling their thumbs for two months.


I detect that you were one of the 63 who were excluded Spitfires. Meanwhile for whatever reasons TCM2007 seems to have become a leading light in the development work even though with his long ago exit from actually using Tivo for tv recording he was unlikely to appreciate why keeping existing Season Passes and/or thumbs that were attached to old TMSIDs going would have been important to many of us long time Tivo users.

If there were functionality related choices to be made on how the AltEPG project was developed or worked it is also a pity that these were never put to a vote amongst the wider Tivocommunity user base.

I will probably sign up my Tivo box that can dial up on the phone line to the AltEPG in the next couple of days just to test the principle even though it won't actually be able to record anything due to my communal aerial no longer delivering a useful signal to my Freeview box.

However I intend to keep my main Tivo using the Tribune EPG until it finally runs out.



TCM2007 said:


> I'm not privvy to Mike or Dave's finances, but if it provides more than an occasional bit of beer money these days I'd be surprised


Dave always seemed to have access to a large Tivo scrapyard somewhere that supplied his refurbished Tivo units. It therefore makes perfect sense to me that he should be spierheading the creation of the AltEPG service.


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> if it provides more than an occasional bit of beer money these days I'd be surprised.


Normally true but I can see a lot of non-tech users purchasing an upgraded disc in the next few weeks as being the simplest way to keep their service running. £40 profit per disc, say 25 discs = £1,000. That's a lot of beer


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> If there were functionality related choices to be made on how the AltEPG project was developed or worked it is also a pity that these were never put to a vote amongst the wider Tivocommunity user base.


Much of that was for expediency - there was an awful lot to do and a very short time to do it in. I (and many others) am *very* grateful for the work that TCM2007, healeydave and the other guys have put in, and I know the technical decisions [1] they made were in the best interest of our Tivos! Yes an open discussion would've been nice but time was short.

Shame about the dual source setup no longer being supported though 

[1] although I do disagree with some of the _business _decisions which have been made without reference to the community


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## BrianHughes (Jan 21, 2001)

spitfires said:


> ... £1,000. That's a lot of beer


You've never gone out for a weekend's drinking in Glasgow, have you?


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

4 pints and I'm anybody's!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

spitfires said:


> [1] although I do disagree with some of the _business _decisions which have been made without reference to the community


I would be interested to know more about some of those "business decisions".

There is no doubt that TCM2007 is technically competent and is used to managing projects and getting them delivered on time.

The only thing I would question about TCM2007 is his all too frequent view that his way of doing things is also the best and the only way of doing things. The lack of dual tuner support by AltEPG and lack of support for old Season Passes in my opinion reflects that approach. Even non support of analogue channels is also questionable since it does represent the current tuner for quite a few existing Tivo users and forces them to move to Freeview at a time when not all of the UK yet has an adequate level of Freeview signal available. This will only be available to at least 99% of the UK after digital switchover in April 2012.

Also non support of the internal Tivo tuner has prevented me from running a fully functional Alpha test Tivo unit whilst my main Tivo is still using the communal Sky satellite input as its program source.


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## Trinitron (Jan 20, 2003)

Pete77 said:


> The only thing I would question about TCM2007 is his all too frequent view that his way of doing things is also the best and the only way of doing things. The lack of dual tuner support by AltEPG and lack of support for old Season Passes in my opinion reflects that approach. Even non support of analogue channels is also questionable since it does represent the current tuner for quite a few existing Tivo users and forces them to move to Freeview at a time when not all of the UK yet has an adequate level of Freeview signal available.


Do you ever think before pressing Submit Reply? The analogue receiver in the TiVo box can use multiple combinations of channels from 21-69, dependent on transmitter region. So lots of work setting up and maintaining the EPG for something that will be obsolete in less than 12 months - and is already obsolete for much of the country. Better to have something that works reliably for 80% of the users than aim for 100% and fail. I suspect very few people will use a dual tuner set up with a single TiVo. If they do, then they should be the kind of people who will know how to work around it.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

I can't imagine many users still have a Tivo setup with just their 4 UHF channels?

No Chn5 via UHF where I live.

Most I expect either have gone for Satellite or Freeview (if they live in the correct location) to boost their program choice.

Automan.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

spitfires said:


> 4 pints and I'm anybody's!


Even if it's Pete ?


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Trinitron said:


> Do you ever think before pressing Submit Reply?


Always. But this seems to be a stuck record refrain that you probably use when anyone else says anything you don't agree with in the forum.



Trinitron said:


> The analogue receiver in the TiVo box can use multiple combinations of channels from 21-69, dependent on transmitter region. So lots of work setting up and maintaining the EPG for something that will be obsolete in less than 12 months - and is already obsolete for much of the country. Better to have something that works reliably for 80% of the users than aim for 100% and fail.





Automan said:


> I can't imagine many users still have a Tivo setup with just their 4 UHF channels?
> 
> No Chn5 via UHF where I live.


Mike of TivoCentral reports that many of his replacement hard drive customers still only use the internal analogue tv tuner on their Tivo. Also your idea that 20% of Tivo S1 users don't count is much like Virgin's idea that 50% of them don't matter. Yes in April 2012 they will move to Freeview next year but at the moment they don't have a Freeview signal at all so can't move to it.

Also the work involved to support the analogue channels would surely be relatively small since under the new EPG people are being allowed to choose the channels they watch rather than given a channel package for each region.



Trinitron said:


> I suspect very few people will use a dual tuner set up with a single TiVo. If they do, then they should be the kind of people who will know how to work around it.


Quite a lot of people use the Freeview and Freesat dual source option as several Freeview channels like Dave and Virgin 1 are not available FTA on a Freesat From Sky or BBC/ITV Freesat box.

What you really seem to be saying is you don't see why anyone else needs to use options that you don't personally use.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

ALanJay said:


> As like others I'd like to maintain the current programmes recorded on my TiVo.


If you're networked it is perfectly feasible to move recordings off now and then replace them with the current OS. I'd guess you will be able to insert recordings as easily if not more easily with AltEPG.

It's not particularly fun and even the speedier cachecard is glacially slow compared to modern network devices so if you think you might do this then I would start now.

I'm not sure I'm going to bother as virtually everything over 3 months old stands slim chance of actually getting watched and so losing it may not be as bad as it seems - I think of it as an enforced tidy up!

[edit] Missed there was a whole other page of this - if you don't have to lose recordings then all to the good.

It took me about 20 minutes to take a snapshot of my +300 season passes in Tivoweb and enter them into Windows Media Centre so recreating them really isn't worth worrying about - the only minor irritation might be ordering them but that's always been a pain even with Tivoeweb[/edit]


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

AMc said:


> If you're networked it is perfectly feasible to move recordings off now and then replace them with the current OS. I'd guess you will be able to insert recordings as easily if not more easily with AltEPG.
> 
> It's not particularly fun and even the speedier cachecard is glacially slow compared to modern network devices so if you think you might do this then I would start now.


Recordings aren't going to be lost by moving over to the AltEPG. Only Season Passes, genre or actor and director wishlists and Thumbs appear as though they will be lost by this change.

Pulling programs off a Tivo through a network card is not very difficult but reinserting them through a network card so that they show up in Now Playing again seems to be nightmarishly hard so I would not suggest that this is a good option compared to just running Guided Setup again and keeping your existing programs on your Tivo.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

spitfires said:


> ^ True but it was a bit of a closed shop - 67 people offered to help in various roles when it was still a community project. 63 of them were deemed unnecessary and have sat twiddling their thumbs for two months. They made life harder for themselves than necessary IMO.
> 
> (No not sour grapes or ingratitude; just stating a fact).


Decision made simply to keep the back end of project manageable; there have been more than 4 people working on it though.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> There is no doubt that TCM2007 is technically competent and is used to managing projects and getting them delivered on time.
> 
> The only thing I would question about TCM2007 is....


It's not my project in any way. I helped a very little bit with some data preparation, that's all.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> It's not my project in any way. I helped a very little bit with some data preparation, that's all.


Apologies for any misassumptions on my part in that regard.

And I suppose many of the main moving forces on the AltEPG may well be keen to protect their anonymity just in case any EPG owner ever decides to try and sue them for infringement of their copyright.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Mike of TivoCentral reports that many of his replacement hard drive customers still only use the internal analogue tv tuner on their Tivo. Also your idea that 20% of Tivo S1 users don't count is much like Virgin's idea that 50% of them don't matter. Yes in April 2012 they will move to Freeview next year but at the moment they don't have a Freeview signal at all so can't move to it.


Adding every possible combination of RF channel and regional variation would have been a massive task for very little benefit. Simply not worth it for the handful of people it effects, a number which will be zero within months anyway; this was discussed in open forum and not one person said it would effect them.

I don't know where 20% came from. I'd be surprised if it were 2%.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Apologies for any misassumptions on my part in that regard.


You should install that as a hotkey.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> And I suppose many of the main moving forces on the AltEPG may well be keen to protect their anonymity just in case any EPG owner ever decides to try and sue them for infringement of their copyright.


Er, that's never been mentioned, and I don't think any of the "moving forces" are hiding their identity.


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## poissony (Feb 20, 2002)

For my part, I've taken my one and only TiVo (networked) and started using altepg. I did not do a clear and delete but simply re-ran guided setup. All recordings still in place. So far so good. I have a Sky setup and not all channels have guide data yet so I've made full use of the manual record in TiVoWeb until they appear.


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## Trinitron (Jan 20, 2003)

Pete77 said:


> Always. But this seems to be a stuck record refrain that you probably use when anyone else says anything you don't agree with in the forum.


Nope. First time.



> Also the work involved to support the analogue channels would surely be relatively small since under the new EPG people are being allowed to choose the channels they watch rather than given a channel package for each region.


You still have the problem of allocating UHF channel numbers to broadcast channels. These differ by transmitter. For example, I could receive BBC1 NW on channels 31 (strong) and 55 (patchy). BBC1 in your area is probably on something different. Getting EPG data for BBC1 NW is simple enough, as is setting it up as Channel 1 on Freeview or 101 on Cable or Satellite. But without the regional database there is no way of associating the required analogue channel to the broadcaster. How many people watching analogue TV know the UHF channel numbers of the stations they watch? Do they realise that is how TiVo tunes in?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

poissony said:


> For my part, I've taken my one and only TiVo (networked) and started using altepg. I did not do a clear and delete but simply re-ran guided setup. All recordings still in place. So far so good. I have a Sky setup and not all channels have guide data yet so I've made full use of the manual record in TiVoWeb until they appear.


Well done on your bravery although if I was you I think I would have stuck with the Tribune data until it ran out and/or the missing channels were added to the AltEPG.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Er, that's never been mentioned


An unfortunate feature of EPGs is that their content will clearly tend to usually reveal the source.

I am sure Tivo have no interest whatsoever in trying to stop us keeping our S1 Tivos working (Virgin would however appear to have some interest in stopping them from working in their cabled area judging by their behaviour so far) so I can only hope that there really are some Open Source EPGs out there on the internet with no copyright restrictions whatsoever regarding their use and/or distribution.


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> spitfires said:
> 
> 
> > 67 people offered to help in various roles when it was still a community project. 63 of them were deemed unnecessary and have sat twiddling their thumbs for two months. They made life harder for themselves than necessary IMO.
> ...


{nods} I'm not talking necessarily about the core stuff but all the peripheral tasks, e.g.:
- adding users to the database
- managing the boundaries for the alpha testing
- writing instructions
- handling support questions in the forum
- obtaining and designing the website
etc.

In short all the tasks which need to be done but which have taken a considerable amount of the core team's valuable time - time which could have been better spent elsewhere had they asked someone else to do these bits.


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## Trinitron (Jan 20, 2003)

Pete77 said:


> Virgin would however appear to have some interest in stopping them from working in their cabled area judging by their behaviour so far


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> An unfortunate feature of EPGs is that their content will clearly tend to usually reveal the source.
> 
> I am sure Tivo have no interest whatsoever in trying to stop us keeping our S1 Tivos working (Virgin would however appear to have some interest in stopping them from working in their cabled area judging by their behaviour so far) so I can only hope that there really are some Open Source EPGs out there on the internet with no copyright restrictions whatsoever regarding their use and/or distribution.


A glance at the screen grabs above reveals the source, used by most free systems like MythTV. Should they get shirty there are plenty of others.

No EPG is copyright free - the TV stations retain copyright in their schedules.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Recordings aren't going to be lost by moving over to the AltEPG. Only Season Passes, genre or actor and director wishlists and Thumbs appear as though they will be lost by this change.
> 
> Pulling programs off a Tivo through a network card is not very difficult but reinserting them through a network card so that they show up in Now Playing again seems to be nightmarishly hard so I would not suggest that this is a good option compared to just running Guided Setup again and keeping your existing programs on your Tivo.


There was some discussion that a clear and delete everything might be needed.

Taking recordings off and putting them back on so they show up in Now Playing isn't complicated - it's just very slow - google Nanvue
I did it when I did my last upgrade, wanted to keep recordings and had run out of partitions from previous multidisk upgrades so needed a fresh install.
Compressing other recordings to playback on Tivo might be more complex I've never bothered doing it.

I'm glad a rerun of GS is all that's going to be necessary.


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## PhilG (Jan 15, 2002)

I'm gradually crawling towards utilising the new EPG - and am astounded that all it seems I'll need to do to my Tivo is a one line change to /etc/tclientUK.conf 

That change has been duly made and Tivo restarted but I am continuing to use the Tivo epg data for now

Rerunning guided setup after enabling access to Alt-EPG is next - but hopefully AFTER some kind soul has helped me export (and reimport) all my wishlists (anyone?)

Phil G

PS In some ways I wish it was harder - to reflect all the work that's gone on behind the scenes!


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Don't forget if you have wishlists for actors they will need a tweak.

e.g. Instead of Lee, Bruce it is Bruce Lee 

Automan.


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## poissony (Feb 20, 2002)

I made a note of my season passes before moving over to altepg but didn't look at wishlists as I don't really use them. However, I see that I have a "Classic Albums" wishlist on my TiVo which must have been there before the switch. I just did a guided setup not a clear and delete. 

Are you sure that wishlists don't persist when just doing a guided setup?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

PhilG said:


> Rerunning guided setup after enabling access to Alt-EPG is next - but hopefully AFTER some kind soul has helped me export (and reimport) all my wishlists (anyone?)


Your Wishlists will be preserved when you run Guided Setup to switch over to the Alt EPG unless they are genre based wishlists. However your Season Passes won't be preserved as the AltEPG does not use the same TMSIDs but its own set of program identifiers. This all assumes that you ignore the advice from the more paranoid tidy minds to Clear and Delete everything and instead keep all your current data Wishlist and Thumbs data etc. Clearing and Deleting everything is only aimed at making life easier for them (as there will be less support issues caused) but not at making life easier for you. Its the same philosophy as the computer manufacturer who so thoughtfully reformats your entire hard drive when it goes in for replacement of say a broken screen or broken power supply (HP is one such company). That is that they know your computer works when it gets back to your and your valuable lost data isn't their problem.

At the moment there is no process for converting existing SPs automatically and you would have to set them all up again by hand. There may never be such a process but my advice personally would be to not change to the new EPG for now unless you have a spare machine to do it with and to keep using the Tribune EPG for so long as it provides new data. As things stand there will be a daily EPG download until at least June 1st and although the main BBC/ITV channel data will run out of data around 11th June some of the minor satellite channels will still have data until June 21st.

Bearing in mind that the AltEPG project does not yet even have data for many of the less popular channels but will do by June 1st my advice would be to hold off on the conversion for the time being.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Clearing and Deleting everything is only aimed at making life easier for them (as there will be less support issues caused) but not at making life easier for you. Its the same philosophy as the computer manufacturer who so thoughtfully reformats your entire hard drive when it goes in for replacement of say a broken screen or broken power supply (HP is one such company). That is that they know your computer works when it gets back to your and your valuable lost data isn't their problem.


You just can't resist having a dig at every opportunity can you? Is there something clinically wrong with you?

A clear-and-delete-everything means that you'll be operating in a known an understood environment. Who knows what effect leaving thumb data for a non-existent show will be, or what might happen if an ID still on an old TiVo gets re-used by the new system.

Anyone whose ever done a clean install of Windows knows it's preferable to doing an in-situ upgrade.


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## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Also the work involved to support the analogue channels would surely be relatively small since under the new EPG people are being allowed to choose the channels they watch rather than given a channel package for each region.


I dont think its as simple as that.

Freeview - BBC1 = 1 irrespective of what UHF Channel the Mux is broadcast on

Satellite - BBC1 = 101 whatever region you are in

Analogue - BBC1 could be on one of several different UHF channels depending on where you are in the country and if you are receiving from the main transmitter or a local repeater. eg Here in Great Yarmouth we receive BBC1 from Tacolneston on 62 but part of the town has a local repeater on 33

The ALTepg would either need to have all the regional transmitters and repeaters in its database, or simply have 1-5 for the five terrestrial channels and some way for you to map that do a UHF channel number but I doubt that tivos internal structure was ever designed to do that.

We lose analogue in November here.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> You just can't resist having a dig at every opportunity can you? Is there something clinically wrong with you?


I don't see why you need to make libellous comments just because you disagree with someone.



> A clear-and-delete-everything means that you'll be operating in a known an understood environment. Who knows what effect leaving thumb data for a non-existent show will be, or what might happen if an ID still on an old TiVo gets re-used by the new system.


Except that other members of the AltEPG project have already confirmed there is no possibility of the IDs used by the new service clashing with TMSIDs. I suppose you would rather put weedkiller on your whole flower bed than take the risk of the odd weed coming up in between the blooms.



> Anyone whose ever done a clean install of Windows knows it's preferable to doing an in-situ upgrade.


And anyone who has been using Windows for any length of time knows that only an idiot follows a tech support line's advice to reformat their entire hard drive and then spend two days reinstalling all their applications rather than using System Restore to go back a few days or a registry maintenance and repair tool if the problem seems more serious.

Completely reinstalling Windows as a solution to minor operating headaches hasn't been justified since Windows 98 and Windows Me days. The only time I have needed to completely reinstall Windows in the last 11 years was when a hard drive failed and when some unpleasant piece of software (in fact I think it was Avast AntiVirus) corrupted my hard drive's boot sector.


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## shabbadoof13 (Oct 24, 2007)

I have tried to signup to this service, and have made a forum login but it wont let me do that as it says the username doesnt exist, however i have been able to add a TiVo to that username for some reason

I have emailed 2 different addresses on the Tivoland website but not had anything back..

Anyone know who to ask for help..??


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Ask in the Tivoland forum, not here.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Completely reinstalling Windows as a solution to minor operating headaches hasn't been justified since Windows 98 and Windows Me days. The only time I have needed to completely reinstall Windows in the last 11 years was when a hard drive failed and when some unpleasant piece of software (in fact I think it was Avast AntiVirus) corrupted my hard drive's boot sector.


???

Who was talking about re-installing Windows to cure problems?

You just make stuff up.

Oh, and asking if you have psychological problem which forces you to snipe continually at people trying to help you is not libellous.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Just for info...
At present the AltEPG does not support the channel numbers used by TalkTalk/Tiscali TV.

Automan.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Automan said:


> At present the AltEPG does not support the channel numbers used by TalkTalk/Tiscali TV.


Does Tivo currently support that platform at the present time? If it doesn't I agree that now would be a good opportunity to add support for it though. But I assume there would also need to be some new set top box IR codes captured as well in order to achieve that?

On a similar line of thought using a Tivo to control a Humax Freesat HD box in non Freesat mode seems like a nice idea (so that you then access to Sky News and other channels not supported in the Freesat EPG and have an EPG with favourites to control) except that in Euro Satbox mode you cannot guarantee what the channel numbers will be as it is all reliant on today's local scan results.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

My faith in the idea of an alternate EPG has been slightly dashed 

It seems several users boxes including my one reboot at intervals from about 10 minutes to three hours.


```
May 27 03:15:34 (none) Scheduler[158]: Tmk Fatal Error: Thread died due to signal 11
May 27 03:15:34 (none) Scheduler[158]: Invoking rule 834: rebooting system
May 27 03:36:59 (none) TmkAssertionFailure[158]: (AssertValidPointer, line 2021 ())
May 27 03:36:59 (none) Scheduler[158]: Tmk Fatal Error: Thread Scheduler <158> died due to signal -2
May 27 03:36:59 (none) Scheduler[158]: Tmk Thread Backtrace: 1a344ec 1a32a44 1b96114 1b9645c 1b95fd4 1b9b2f0 1b96d20 1b49078 1aa4508 1b96d20 1b3c9f4 1b3d0dc 1b3de98 1b3dafc 1b3d460 1b3d240 1b4d608 1b495b8 1b171a8 1b16f98 1af55a4 1af898c 1af9404 1bdd77c 1bde5c4 1bf42a8 1b5b5f8 1bdd1b0 1b91bb4 1c0644c 1c063bc 1c23c84 1c23df4 1c27364 1c28374 1c28420 1c27504 1c06298 1c06148 1bf71a4 1c239b0 1c2764c 1c28374 1c28420 1c27748 1c2379c 1c24388 1c2400c 1bf6b00 1c28af4 1800134 ipe
May 27 03:36:59 (none) Scheduler[158]: Tmk Fatal Error: Thread died due to signal -2
May 27 03:36:59 (none) Scheduler[158]: Invoking rule 834: rebooting system
```
What happens if when lots of users start using it and something in the guide data starts making everyone's box reboot all the time, perhaps so often that recovery without a disc pull is not possible (more of a problem for non networked Tivo boxes).

I am always a doom and gloom merchant and like to look at the worse possible scenarios 

Automan.


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## Nimbus (May 29, 2004)

Automan said:


> What happens if when lots of users start using it and something in the guide data starts making everyone's box reboot all the time, perhaps so often that recovery without a disc pull is not possible (more of a problem for non networked Tivo boxes).
> 
> I am always a doom and gloom merchant and like to look at the worse possible scenarios
> 
> Automan.


Well, they wont be much worse off than how Tivo are leaving us...

lets stay positive for now, I'm sure whatever the problem is, it can be fixed


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Nimbus said:


> lets stay positive for now, I'm sure whatever the problem is, it can be fixed


T-4 days and counting................


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## gazter (Aug 1, 2001)

The holy grail for us who have moved from Tivo to mce, is a good reliable (with mistakes corrected) epg. Are AltEpg planning on making an XML of their efforts available for us non tivo users?


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

gazter said:


> The holy grail for us who have moved from Tivo to mce, is a good reliable (with mistakes corrected) epg. Are AltEpg planning on making an XML of their efforts available for us non tivo users?


Indeed, I gave up on MCE as the guide data and channel data is a bit of a mess...

Still, was talking to one of my ex colleagues who has 6 tuners in his one, 2 x SAT and 4 x Freeview and he is pretty happy with it.

Automan.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Automan said:


> Indeed, I gave up on MCE as the guide data and channel data is a bit of a mess...
> 
> Still, was talking to one of my ex colleagues who has 6 tuners in his one, 2 x SAT and 4 x Freeview and he is pretty happy with it.


However other people seem to have much, much lower expectations than us of what their PVR should be able to do than those of us who have experienced a fully functional Series 1 Tivo.

From the night I spent on the put you up bed in the living room of my friends house where their Humax Freesat HD box is (I ended up getting little sleep but did lots of Freesat box testing) it is a very poor and limited device indeed compared to a Tivo. The fact that you cannot view Sky News and various other channels not in the Freesat EPG without completely retuning it in dumb Eurosat box mode with hundreds of other channels then tuned in on random channel numbers that are in fact encrypted drove me particularly bananas. Also manipulation of recorded programs on the Freesat box was exceedingly poor compared to an S1 Tivo.


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## Trinitron (Jan 20, 2003)

Perhaps the name "Freesat" gives the game away? If you want Sky News, you get a "Freesat from Sky" box (do they still do them?). Complaining about it being difficult to receive channels a box isn't designed to receive is a tad harsh.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Trinitron said:


> Complaining about it being difficult to receive channels a box isn't designed to receive is a tad harsh.


Sorry but it is designed to receive any non encrypted FTA channel on the Astra and Eurobird satellites at 28 degrees East and has a Eurosat boxmode for doing it. It is only using it in the artificial walled garden Freesat mode that stops it being viewed.

By contrast it cannot physically receive 5* or 5USA or Pick TV (formerly Sky Three) because they are encrypted FTV and you need a CAM and viewing card to watch those. A Freesat box cannot support that.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

MCE, when I last tried it did not even have the correct channel names for the CBS channels which makes setup very tricky.

I am just clear & deleting everything on my Tivo and putting it back on Tivo data.

Like someone else, the log files were full of strange data after 40 or so reboots in one day...

Automan.


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## Nimbus (May 29, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> T-4 days and counting................


Always a ray of sunshine, arent we


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Nimbus said:


> Always a ray of sunshine, arent we


How is stating a fact having a view either way.

I personally believe an Alternative EPG will be got working that is largely as good as the current EPG in the end.

However the relative difficulty of cutting over so many users on one date or migrating Tivo users who are used to a different original EPG structure have I think been a little under estimated. In the countries that started with nothing to begin with then anything at all was better than nothing and a slow build up to a fully working service was also far more acceptable.

Of course when we have had no EPG service for three or four weeks we may well become far more grateful for anything at all that seems to do the job.


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## PhilG (Jan 15, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> How is stating a fact having a view either way.
> 
> I personally believe an Alternative EPG will be got working that is largely as good as the current EPG in the end.
> 
> ...


And anyway, the -4 refers to the last (we assume) successful download of EPG data

The EPGs themselves will have between 2 and 4 weeks of data as of T-day - so we are far (relatively speaking) from the end of current Tivo EPG

Which is one reason why I have not (yet) switched over to the alternate EPG

I am primed to go - just a simple dialin configuration change needed

In fact, I'll be phasing myself in:

1. I'll make sure that after the call on May 31st my Tivo will not try and access EPG data from ANYWHERE (I've engineered a dialin configuration that is guarateed to fail!) - I don't trust Tivo inc NOT to leave my Tivo running if it calls in after June 1st
2. I'll then watch the EPG data dwindle for a week or two
3. Only then will I switch to the alternate EPG

I've been involved in too many "big bang" computer changes to want to do one myself!

Phil G


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## Fred Smith (Oct 5, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> By contrast it cannot physically receive 5* or 5USA or Pick TV (formerly Sky Three) because they are encrypted FTV and you need a CAM and viewing card to watch those. A Freesat box cannot support that.


Wrong, at least one can.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

PhilG said:


> And anyway, the -4 refers to the last (we assume) successful download of EPG data


Yes that was my point. As in the Shuttle launch etc by Mission Control. -4 days till the EPG ends and counting etc and anyhow I now realise its -5 as there are 31 days in May. Do you think Trinitron thought I was scoring the AltEPG?



> The EPGs themselves will have between 2 and 4 weeks of data as of T-day - so we are far (relatively speaking) from the end of current Tivo EPG


If Tivo cut us off on June 1st (which I still do not fully believe will happen despite all the marketing messages sent for Virgin by them mainly because Tribune will still be supplying UK EPG data after June 1st) then the last update for the main BBC, ITV, C4 and Five channels will be this Saturday/Sunday 28/29 May. That means they will run out of data on around 11th or 12th June. However CBS Action (the home of various series of Star Trek including The Original Series) and other more formulaic satellite channels who plan schedules long ahead will have data until the end of the day on June 21st or June 22nd. So not quite as good as 4 weeks grace sadly. 



> 1. I'll make sure that after the call on May 31st my Tivo will not try and access EPG data from ANYWHERE (I've engineered a dialin configuration that is guarateed to fail!) - I don't trust Tivo inc NOT to leave my Tivo running if it calls in after June 1st


I don't think Tivo can send a kill signal to the chips on the box (the hard drive can always be reimaged if they try to mess with that). They can only change us all to Account Closed. Closed Accounts can be reopened at the whim of the server you connect to. The AltEPG server can change account status back to 4:Tivo Internal Test.

Anyhow I'm perfectly sure Tivo won't try and kill the boxes and leave them useless as this would undermine one of their main defences to the upcoming rwtomkins court case against them. Namely they can say "your honour the boxes are still able to record with a new free data source from the enthusiast community hence we have not left the boxes useless for our customers". They also won't want all the very negative vibes back in the USA that would be caused by trying to deliberately kill our UK S1 boxes. Of course if the kill signal exists and Mr Neil Berkett's finger was directly on the button to send it I would be a little more worried.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

I have had no more issues with mces EPG than I did with TiVo. But I use freeview.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> I have had no more issues with mces EPG than I did with TiVo. But I use freeview.


I agree entirely. MCE on Freeview (3 Tuners at present) together with a Linksys extender to upstairs TV is pretty well an equal to S1 Tivo.

AND it has the WAF built in to it.

I nearly opted out of the Virgin cable TV (VM Tivo) but retentions made me a great offer and I would have missed some of the channels only available via Sky$$ or Virgin$$


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## Steve_K (May 5, 2001)

Automan said:


> I can't imagine many users still have a Tivo setup with just their 4 UHF channels?
> 
> No Chn5 via UHF where I live. . .


Same here (also Sussex) and my two Sky boxes and Freeview all have dual recording capability so for some years now TiVo has been just a 4 analogue channel recorder. A very reliable and user friendly 4 channel recorder.

So the decision for me is whether or not to buy another Freeview box (and probably a network card) to use the Alt EPG. Flip of a coin right now.

Whichever way that coin falls, I'm extremely grateful to the AltEPG team for giving us an option to use TiVo after June 1st. Pete please stop moaning about what they've done, no one is compelling anyone to use AltEPG.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Steve_K said:


> Same here (also Sussex) and my two Sky boxes and Freeview all have dual recording capability so for some years now TiVo has been just a 4 analogue channel recorder. A very reliable and user friendly 4 channel recorder.
> 
> So the decision for me is whether or not to buy another Freeview box (and probably a network card) to use the Alt EPG. Flip of a coin right now.
> 
> Whichever way that coin falls, I'm extremely grateful to the AltEPG team for giving us an option to use TiVo after June 1st. Pete please stop moaning about what they've done, no one is compelling anyone to use AltEPG.


It looks like they have a test dual input option to keep using RF.

http://www.tivoland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=536

This is for Dual Sat / Freeview Setup.

See http://www.tivoland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=546 which relates to a possible RF Terrestrial UHF TV Only Option if there is the demand to develop.

Automan.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

I am now trying the just "run guided setup" method still deleted my todo list and wishlists etc but saves recordings.

It would not save the channel lineup and I had to go through the IR setup else it kept repeating the channel list menu.

After Tivo finished indexing program data I did a restart and the channel list now saves ok.

Now AltEPG has guide data for CBS channels and in fact every tv channel you can get with a free sky viewing card box 

Fingers crossed it does not keep rebooting....

Automan.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

I have set my Tivo to make a few recordings over the next week 


```
Sun	29th May	12:30	BBC2	The Long Ships	Not an Episode	
Sun	29th May	16:00	CBSACTN	The Fugitive	Past Perfect	
Sun	29th May	17:00	CBSACTN	The Fugitive	Jenny	
Sun	29th May	18:00	CBSDRMA	North and South	Season 2 Episode 4	
Sun	29th May	20:00	BBC3	Doctor Who	The Almost People	
Sun	29th May	21:00	CBSDRMA	North and South	Season 2 Episode 3	
Sun	29th May	23:10	MORE4	Father Ted	Competition Time	
Mon	30th May	00:50	HORROR	Gacy	Not an Episode	
Mon	30th May	04:00	CBSACTN	Remington Steele	Steeled with a Kiss (Part 1)	
Mon	30th May	05:00	CBSACTN	Remington Steele	Steeled with a Kiss (Part 2)	
Mon	30th May	07:00	ITV4	The Saint	The People Importers	
Mon	30th May	08:00	CBSDRMA	Dynasty	The Surrogate (Part 1)	
Mon	30th May	09:00	CBSACTN	Star Trek: Deep Space Nine	Statistical Probabilities	
Mon	30th May	10:00	MV4MEN2	Fort Apache	Not an Episode	
Mon	30th May	13:00	CBSACTN	Star Trek	The Trouble with Tribbles	
Mon	30th May	15:00	MV4MEN2	She Wore a Yellow Ribbon	Not an Episode	
Mon	30th May	17:20	MOV4MEN	Fire from Below	No Episode Title	
Mon	30th May	19:10	BBC3	Lara Croft, Tomb Raider: the Cradle of Life	No Episode Title	
Mon	30th May	22:00	ITV3	Ghostboat	No Episode Title	
Tue	31st May	02:00	CBSDRMA	Medium	In the Rough	
Tue	31st May	03:45	BBC1SE	One Man and His Campervan	Caldicot	
Tue	31st May	04:40	CBSACTN	Starsky and Hutch	Partners	
Tue	31st May	06:50	ITV4	Minder	From Fulham with Love	
Tue	31st May	08:00	CBSDRMA	Dynasty	The Surrogate (Part 2)	
Tue	31st May	09:00	MOV4MP1	Space Fury	No Episode Title	
Tue	31st May	11:00	CBSACTN	Star Trek: Deep Space Nine	One Little Ship	
Tue	31st May	12:20	CH5	Law & Order	Paradigm	
Tue	31st May	14:00	MOV4MP1	Quest for Fire	No Episode Title	
Tue	31st May	16:05	ITV3	On the Buses	Going Steady	
Tue	31st May	16:40	ITV3	On the Buses	The Squeeze	
Tue	31st May	17:10	ITV3	Goodnight Sweetheart	The More I See You	
Tue	31st May	17:55	ITV4	Quantum Leap	Lee Harvey Oswald (Part 1)	
Tue	31st May	19:00	CBSACTN	Kung Fu: The Legend Continues	A Shaolin Treasure	
Tue	31st May	20:00	ITV3	A Touch of Frost	Dancing in the Dark	
Tue	31st May	22:00	ITV3	Ghostboat	Season 0 Episode 2	
Tue	31st May	23:45	FILM41	Good Morning, Vietnam	Not an Episode	
Wed	 1st Jun	04:40	CBSACTN	Starsky and Hutch	Quadromania	
Wed	 1st Jun	08:00	CBSDRMA	Dynasty	The Primary	
Wed	 1st Jun	09:30	MOV4MEN	Robinson Crusoe	No Episode Title	
Wed	 1st Jun	11:30	CBBC	The Sarah Jane Adventures	No Episode Title	
Wed	 1st Jun	12:20	CH5	Law & Order	The Dead Wives Club	
Wed	 1st Jun	13:45	ITV4	Minder	It's a Sorry Lorry Morrie	
Wed	 1st Jun	16:05	ITV3	On the Buses	On the Make	
Wed	 1st Jun	16:40	ITV3	On the Buses	Olive's Divorce	
Wed	 1st Jun	17:10	ITV3	Goodnight Sweetheart	I Get Along Without You Very Well	
Wed	 1st Jun	18:00	C4	The Simpsons	Midnight Rx	
Wed	 1st Jun	19:00	CBSACTN	Kung Fu: The Legend Continues	Dark Side of the Chi	
Wed	 1st Jun	20:00	CBSACTN	Star Trek	A Piece of the Action	
Wed	 1st Jun	21:00	CH5	NCIS	Obsession	
Wed	 1st Jun	23:10	FILM4	From Dusk till Dawn	Not an Episode	
Thu	 2nd Jun	02:00	CBSDRMA	Medium	When Push Comes to Shove (Part 1)	
Thu	 2nd Jun	03:00	TRUMOV2	The Flame Trees of Thika	The Promised Land	
Thu	 2nd Jun	04:00	TRUMOV2	The Flame Trees of Thika	Hyenas Will Eat Anything	
Thu	 2nd Jun	06:50	ITV4	Minder	I'll Never Forget Whatsername	
Thu	 2nd Jun	08:00	CBSDRMA	Dynasty	The Testing	
Thu	 2nd Jun	09:00	CBSACTN	Star Trek: Deep Space Nine	Inquisition	
Thu	 2nd Jun	10:00	MOV4MEN	Tarzan in Manhattan	Not an Episode	
Thu	 2nd Jun	12:20	CH5	Law & Order	The Brotherhood	
Thu	 2nd Jun	14:00	MV4MN21	SOS Pacific	No Episode Title	
Thu	 2nd Jun	16:05	ITV3	On the Buses	The Perfect Clippie	
Thu	 2nd Jun	16:40	ITV3	On the Buses	The Ticket Machine	
Thu	 2nd Jun	17:10	ITV3	Goodnight Sweetheart	In the Mood	
Thu	 2nd Jun	18:00	ITV4	Quantum Leap	Lee Harvey Oswald (Part 2)	
Thu	 2nd Jun	19:00	CBSACTN	Kung Fu: The Legend Continues	Ancient Love	
Thu	 2nd Jun	20:00	ITV3	A Touch of Frost	If Dogs Run Free (Part 1)	
Thu	 2nd Jun	22:00	E4	The IT Crowd	The Final Countdown	
Thu	 2nd Jun	23:00	CBSDRMA	Medium	When Push Comes to Shove (Part 2)	
Fri	 3rd Jun	03:00	TRUMOV2	The Flame Trees of Thika	Happy New Year	
Fri	 3rd Jun	04:00	TRUMOV2	The Flame Trees of Thika	Friends in High Places	
Fri	 3rd Jun	08:00	CBSDRMA	Dynasty	The Setup	
Fri	 3rd Jun	09:40	ITV3	Ironside	Barbara Who	
Fri	 3rd Jun	11:00	CBSACTN	Star Trek: Deep Space Nine	Profit and Lace	
Fri	 3rd Jun	12:20	CH5	Law & Order	Coming Down Hard	
Fri	 3rd Jun	16:05	ITV3	On the Buses	First Aid	
Fri	 3rd Jun	16:40	ITV3	On the Buses	The Cistern	
Fri	 3rd Jun	17:10	ITV3	Goodnight Sweetheart	Don't Get Around Much Anymore	
Fri	 3rd Jun	18:00	ITV4	Quantum Leap	Leaping of the Shrew	
Fri	 3rd Jun	19:00	CBSACTN	Kung Fu: The Legend Continues	Blackout	
Fri	 3rd Jun	20:00	CBSACTN	Star Trek	A Private Little War	
Fri	 3rd Jun	21:30	BBC1SE	Outnumbered	Season 3 Episode 5	
Fri	 3rd Jun	22:00	FIVEUSA	From Hell	Not an Episode	
Sat	 4th Jun	01:00	TRUMOV2	The Great Los Angeles Earthquake	Not an Episode	
Sat	 4th Jun	03:00	TRUMOV2	The Flame Trees of Thika	A Real Sportsman	
Sat	 4th Jun	04:00	TRUMOV2	The Flame Trees of Thika	Safari	
Sat	 4th Jun	07:00	TRUMOV2	Red River	Not an Episode	
Sat	 4th Jun	12:00	CBBC	Merlin	No Episode Title	
Sat	 4th Jun	12:45	CBBC	The Sarah Jane Adventures	No Episode Title	
Sat	 4th Jun	13:10	CBBC	The Sarah Jane Adventures	No Episode Title	
Sat	 4th Jun	13:50	ITV1STH	Field of Dreams	No Episode Title	
Sat	 4th Jun	16:00	CBSACTN	V	The Sanction	
Sat	 4th Jun	17:00	CBSDRMA	North and South	Season 2 Episode 5	
Sat	 4th Jun	18:40	BBC2	Dad's Army	The Royal Train	
Sat	 4th Jun	20:00	CH5	NCIS	Under Covers	
Sat	 4th Jun	22:00	CH5	CSI: NY	Exit Strategy	
Sun	 5th Jun	00:10	MV4MEN2	Steel Dawn	Not an Episode	
Sun	 5th Jun	03:00	TRUMOV2	The Flame Trees of Thika	The Drums of War	
Sun	 5th Jun	10:00	CBSACTN	Star Trek	The Gamesters of Triskelion	
Sun	 5th Jun	12:00	FILM41	River of No Return	No Episode Title	
Sun	 5th Jun	14:00	MV4MEN2	The Hound of the Baskervilles	Not an Episode	
Sun	 5th Jun	16:00	CBSACTN	The Fugitive	Strapped	
Sun	 5th Jun	17:00	CBSACTN	The Fugitive	Sea Change	
Sun	 5th Jun	18:00	CBSDRMA	North and South	Season 2 Episode 8	
Sun	 5th Jun	19:00	BBC3	Doctor Who	A Good Man Goes to War	
Sun	 5th Jun	20:00	HORROR	Millennium	Skull and Bones	
Sun	 5th Jun	21:00	CBSDRMA	North and South	Season 2 Episode 7	
Sun	 5th Jun	22:00	ITV4	Soldier	Not an Episode
```
Automan.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Its good to see CBS Drama and Movies4Men finally being added to the Tivo's EPG listings.:up::up::up:


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## garry_nutter (May 6, 2007)

Anyone know if Altepg will have the data for Virgin Cable. I use my Tivo now to record from VM.

Thanks

Garry


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Yes.


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## richard_m_w (Nov 22, 2010)

Well Done and Thank You to all involved
On Saturday, I spent a couple of hours for the reconfiguration and repeating guided setup. There were several redials needed as I expect many others were doing the same thing. About 4 hours later I looked at the Season Passes and the Tivo rebooted on its own. I've rebuilt the Season Passes and everything has been working fine with about 20 programmes recorded exactly as planned.
A good experience all round and most importantly my wife can carry on enjoying her Judge Judy.


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