# What is going on with TiVo OTA DVRs?



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

I haven't been following TiVo (or this forum) much so just wondering how far out of the loop I am. 

Just had a friend ask me about an OTA DVR. Told him I had TiVos, went to the sight to show him and it says that the TiVo Edge OTA is out of stock. No mention of when or if it will be back in stock. 

Checked Amazon and they show 2 listings for TiVo Edge OTA one without service for $250 that notes it is a 4 tuner unit and that service is required and another showing a 2 tuner?? TiVo Edge OTA with all in service for $300. The pictures are correct for both listings. What is really interesting is both are being sold and shipped by Channel Master?? 

Is something going on? Is TiVo selling out to Channel Master?


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## yesno (Jun 27, 2003)

Edge Antenna on Sale at Channel Master


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## TivoJD (Feb 8, 2005)

The 2 tuner OTA model is a Canadian model. The US model is 4 tuners.

TiVo EDGE for Antenna | Antenna DVR and Streaming | OTA Recording | Canada


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## Darrell Patton (Jul 19, 2018)

Is the OTA Tivo being phased out now that XPERI has taken over?
It feels that way with only 2 tuner Edge models are available.
What happened to the 4 tuner OTA Edge model?


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## johnfasc (Dec 24, 2014)

So now we have to worry about our Roamio OTA going stale and being left out of updates? I know stuff gets outdated but almost immediately after I went up to the 1tb all in model they stopped selling them. And only a few years old.


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## LarryAtHome (Feb 18, 2008)

With ATSC 3.0 stations coming to air, hopefully a new model with ATSC 3.0 tuners will be selling shortly.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

LarryAtHome said:


> With ATSC 3.0 stations coming to air, hopefully a new model with ATSC 3.0 tuners will be selling shortly.


I sure hope you are correct. Otherwise it appears TiVo is abandoning OTA. Nothing available on their site and they redirect you to Channel Master (Shop TiVo Products | Buy TiVo EDGE, BOLT, Mini and more.) to purchase the dual tuner unit which is being sold for $350 with lifetime/all in service. The 4 tuner unit is completely gone.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

TiVo might be abandoning OTA as we have multiple OTA DVR choices that don't change for guide service. Are they as good as a TiVo? Probably not. But it's just TV.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

atmuscarella said:


> I sure hope you are correct. Otherwise it appears TiVo is abandoning OTA. Nothing available on their site and they redirect you to Channel Master (Shop TiVo Products | Buy TiVo EDGE, BOLT, Mini and more.) to purchase the dual tuner unit which is being sold for $350 with lifetime/all in service. The 4 tuner unit is completely gone.


Long time, no see atmuscarella.

Yeah, it's very weird that TiVo no longer sells OTA DVRs on their own website in the US, only via ChannelMaster. The 2-tuner Edge OTA was originally available only as a Canadian product but now ChannelMaster sells it here in the US, both on their own site as well as through Amazon. As you said, they only sell it with lifetime service for $350.

TiVo's Canadian website still sells the 2-tuner Edge OTA there and it costs $300 Canadian ($220 USD), with options for monthly, annual and lifetime service plans. (Lifetime costs another $300 CD / $220 USD.) This is apparently TiVo's first-ever product for the Canadian market. It was introduced there on Oct. 1 last year. Guess they wanted to take the fight to Tablo on their home turf, eh.

It would appear that the 4-tuner Edge OTA is being phased out. ChannelMaster still sells the product but only via Amazon, not their own site. Seems highly likely that that product is now completely discontinued. It sells on Amazon for $249 and doesn't include service, which costs an extra $7/mo or $250 for lifetime.

I'm wondering if they've stopped production on the 2-tuner Edge OTA too. Given the relative expense of the TiVo Edge in Canada (plus TiVo's historical absence from that market), it's not a stretch to think that they haven't sold well at all. So maybe they've ceased production on that model too and they've partnered with ChannelMaster to help them sell through the remaining units to US cord-cutters. Or, OTOH, maybe TiVo sees a future for this cheaper 2-tuner model Edge OTA and plans to continue producing it.

Given TiVo's acquisition by Xperi, I think their continued commitment to retail products is highly questionable. But if we do see them roll out a future OTA DVR, I think it will be a headless network-connected type of device, similar to the Amazon Fire TV Recast. Except whereas the Recast works specifically with Fire TV streamers, TiVo's network DVR would work with their TiVo Stream 4K dongle. It's worth noting that the chipset in that dongle has native support for raw MPEG-2 transport streams, so the DVR wouldn't need to transcode anything. Although the whole set-up would either need to be on ethernet or AC wifi with a strong signal to handle non-transcoded streams.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

NashGuy said:


> Long time, no see atmuscarella.


NashGuy, hope all is well with you and your family.

When I decided I didn't want anything to do with the new UI and that my Bolt & Roamio where all I was ever going to need for OTA DVRs until ATSC 3.0 came along I pretty much stop paying much attention to the forum.

In any event sad to see what is going on with TiVo and OTA, unless of course they are planning to release a new combo ATSC 1.0/3.0 DVR and are just clearing inventory. I live in a pretty small TV market so not sure when or even if I will see ATSC 3.0 channels, until then my plan is just to keep what I have running. I didn't get TiVo's streaming stick, already have a Roku that I don't us that much. This computer is attached to my TV and pretty much I just use it when I want to stream something.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

Nail in the coffin? Did TiVo sell off their remaining stock of OTA DVRs and call it quits. Perhaps only selling the cable DVR until stock gets low enough they can sell it off as well... I'm guessing since they sold them off they aren't looking to end the service right away.

I wonder how many days notice we will receive...


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

I don't think there's any real evidence at this point to say that TiVo is exiting the OTA DVR market. I mean, it's possible they are but it may just be that they've decided for some reason to stick with that product category but use ChannelMaster as their exclusive US distributor of OTA DVRs.

Anyhow, even if TiVo does eventually stop making and selling retail DVRs (for OTA and/or cable), I don't think there's any reason to worry about current customers being unable to continue receiving service on their units for a few years longer at least. TiVo will still have to run their service (guide data, etc.) for their cable partners with TiVo-powered STBs, so they'll continue to extend it to retail devices with lifetime service too.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

If they only offer a 2 tuner model they have exited the OTA market as far as I'm concerned. Service wise I don't expect it to disappear overnight rather simply another nail in the coffin...


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Granted the OTA market died with the proliferation of cable and satellite but I would think the market is growing with us cord cutters. The first thing I did when I dropped Dish was buy a Bolt. Second thing was find one or streaming sources to complement that. Now would be a good time to capture more OTA people.


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

I'm not sure it's enough to sustain a company, though -- at least not a company that is large enough to be acquired or have shareholders. OTA DVR users are probably really only a profitable market for small scale businesses like Tablo or SiliconDust anymore. Yes - I'm aware of the Recast .. but that serves only as a tool to sell more Fire TV sticks and I'm not sure it's made too much of an impact in that goal. OTA use has increased, but appears to have plateaued recently. On top of that - as with most people now, many new OTA users have no interest in a DVR in a streaming world. I recall seeing the results of a CCN survey where (when they're not busy re-hashing other people's news as their own) they reported that 75% of their OTA respondents have no DVR and no interest in getting one either. It's a tool that seems to have great interest in the older-skewing viewers (like those of us who post in TiVo forums) but of little use to younger-skewing on-demand streamers.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

eherberg said:


> I'm not sure it's enough to sustain a company, though -- at least not a company that is large enough to be acquired or have shareholders.


Xperi, TiVo's holding company, has a market cap of 1.9B. Symbol: XPER.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Amazon, Tablo and Silicon Dust all sell dual tuner DVR. There must be some demand for them.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

My attic antenna is/was acting up and I called several antenna companies to see if they would come out and aim/secure it. Haven't heard back from two and the one I happen to get to right away stated he was booked for at least a couple of weeks and said with everybody being home demand has been crazy. Now whether they are interested in DVRs might be another matter...


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

I got an email from ChannelMaster today promoting their new exclusive sales/distribution arrangement for the TiVo Edge OTA 500. From CM's website:



> Available only from Channel Master!
> The TiVo EDGE for Antenna (500GB) is the newest DVR model from TiVo. The TiVo Edge for Antenna (500GB) was introduced in July of 2020 and added HDR support and advanced performance over its predecessor, the discontinued TiVo Bolt OTA DVR.


Same page offers a discounted lifetime all in cost, currently on sale.

I hadn't realized until reading further that this Edge has only two tuners. Yeah, both Tablo and Recast offer 2-tuner models, but I haven't seen a 2-tuner TiVo since my old series 3 HD units. On the other hand, if the tuners perform better than what was used in the Bolt, maybe a win.

In any case, exclusive distribution deals appear to me that OTA DVR sales are not a priority with the new TiVo.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

Charles R said:


> My attic antenna is/was acting up and I called several antenna companies to see if they would come out and aim/secure it. Haven't heard back from two and the one I happen to get to right away stated he was booked for at least a couple of weeks and said with everybody being home demand has been crazy. Now whether they are interested in DVRs might be another matter...


Absent violent weather, antennas do not 'act up'. Many stations are going through hardware changes due to the 'repack'. In Boston, service has been horrible most of this year. This is the worst time of year for OTA reception. Leaves are full of water, often covered with water, and in motion. Things may get better in a month or so. If you have any powered equipment (pre-amp, splitter/amp) make sure it is working properly. If reception does not get worse when you bypass the hardware, replace it.

Check your antenna's orientation with a compass.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

wizwor said:


> Absent violent weather, antennas do not 'act up'.


_Act up_ as in no longer receiving a couple of my weakest channels. Last fairly heavy storm I lost the channels and trying to aim the antenna to get them back I lost them for good. After another 100 attempts (from the attic to the lower level checking the signal) I finally got one of them back to a lessor degree - the other is a duplicated network although its video is inferior to the one I lost. Bottom line I'm guessing the terrain has changed enough over the years (since the signal has slowly deteriorated) with a line of growing trees most likely to blame.

Attic Antenna charges $50 house call and $60 an hour for such services. Not bad at all if he aims and straps it down to ensure it doesn't move from the wind via the attic's air vents.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

Charles R said:


> _Act up_ as in no longer receiving a couple of my weakest channels. Attic Antenna charges $50 house call and $60 an hour for such services. Not bad at all if he aims and straps it down to ensure it doesn't move from the wind via the attic's air vents.


If you'd like to post or PM me the GPS coordinates of your antenna and the call signs of the stations giving you grief, I'd be happy to take a look at things for you. Make/model of the antenna would be helpful.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

wizwor said:


> If you'd like to post or PM me the GPS coordinates of your antenna and the call signs of the stations giving you grief, I'd be happy to take a look at things for you.


Thanks. I know where the towers are located and have been somewhat successful in aiming the (decent) antenna in the attic. Few years back I had to raise it several feet and it's just resting on a couple of beams. It's difficult to get "into" the attic so I only adjust it with a long stick... left or right. I have no way of aiming up or down or really any type of fine tuning. It's just too much "work" to get up there which certainly will need to be repeated several dozen times in most cases - have to jump up from the top of a 8 foot ladder and do gymnastics.

I rather pay someone to mount the antenna on a pole (mounted to a beam) and be able to fine tune it with a signal meter while he is up there. Luckily once I lost the station after countless aiming "attempts" it came back so I'm good to go for the moment.

He was booked for a couple of weeks and is supposed to call a few days before he can come out. I'll decide then to punt and see how soon I lose the channel or have him come out... my fear is as the signal has gotten weaker and weaker over the years my days are numbered. If I have him do his stuff at least I'll know the antenna is doing the best it can. Worse case I need something better (not sure how much bigger would actually fit up there) or give up OTA!


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

Channel Master to Market TiVo Edge DVR with its OTA Solution | Next TV


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

dishrich said:


> Channel Master to Market TiVo Edge DVR with its OTA Solution | Next TV


The sub-headline gave me pause...

*Channel Master to Market TiVo Edge DVR with its OTA Solutions*
*By Daniel Frankel 12 hours ago

Deal will kick off with the launch of TiVo's new 500 terabyte device later this summer
*
That's some large hard drive. Till you read the actual article which mentions a 500 GByte drive.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Charles R said:


> _Act up_ as in no longer receiving a couple of my weakest channels. Last fairly heavy storm I lost the channels and trying to aim the antenna to get them back I lost them for good. After another 100 attempts (from the attic to the lower level checking the signal) I finally got one of them back to a lessor degree - the other is a duplicated network although its video is inferior to the one I lost. Bottom line I'm guessing the terrain has changed enough over the years (since the signal has slowly deteriorated) with a line of growing trees most likely to blame.
> 
> Attic Antenna charges $50 house call and $60 an hour for such services. Not bad at all if he aims and straps it down to ensure it doesn't move from the wind via the attic's air vents.


I had two channels move from UHF to VHF and one VHF channel move to a lower VHF number and I had to significantly reposition my antenna, but I have a rotater. You might want to get a rotater for your antenna and have it wired to the controller in the house next to the TV. I had to reposition my antenna 2 or three times per year even before they changed the frequency of the channels.


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## MrDell (Jul 8, 2012)

shwru980r said:


> I had two channels move from UHF to VHF and one VHF channel move to a lower VHF number and I had to significantly reposition my antenna, but I have a rotater. You might want to get a rotater for your antenna and have it wired to the controller in the house next to the TV. I had to reposition my antenna 2 or three times per year even before they changed the frequency of the channels.


 I know what you mean... In Rhode Island I had no problem getting PBS station WGBH out of Boston when they were on UHF before the channel repack. After the repack they moved the signal to VHF channel 5. To pick that frequency up from 45 miles away you need a monster antenna on the roof!!!


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

shwru980r said:


> I had to reposition my antenna 2 or three times per year even before they changed the frequency of the channels.


Pretty much all of the antennas (channels) I need to pick up are in the same location plus or minus a few degrees. I'm in a low area somewhat and over the years a tree line (next neighborhood over) has grown enough to impact my reception I'm guessing as it has slowly deteriorated over the years. Perhaps a couple of trees in our property as well.

I'm undecided on what I'll do if I lose one of the major networks. I might be willing to "invest" in a better antenna (currently have an older Channel Master similar to the CM-3020). Over the past several years we have watched less and less OTA and I don't think I could talk myself into signing up for YouTube TV or some such. It's not really the cost rather much like the pay streaming services if I subscribe I feel I should be using them all the time since I'm paying for them... and I don't like feeling that pressure.

Push comes to shove I can't see leaving them behind although at the same time I'd guess well less than 50% of my viewing time is not OTA related... replaced with (traditional) YouTube and Twitch. And going forward I see that increasing.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

shwru980r said:


> I had two channels move from UHF to VHF and one VHF channel move to a lower VHF number and I had to significantly reposition my antenna, but I have a rotater. You might want to get a rotater for your antenna and have it wired to the controller in the house next to the TV. I had to reposition my antenna 2 or three times per year even before they changed the frequency of the channels.


Not a fan or rotors. In this day of unattended recording and multiple concurrent watchers, there are too many opportunities for conflict. If you have to move your rotor a couple times a year with no repack, then your setup is not tight. It's not like the other guys are moving their antennas around, right?


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

I don't understand the reasoning for offering a 2-tuner OTA DVR over a 4-tuner. Why not just offer a 4-tuner and not even manufacture the 2-tuner model? I have been using a Roamio OTA for the past 4 years and I routinely have 3 or 4 tuners recording. I would never settle for a 2-tuner model. I also use a Recast, but I find the Tivo picture quality to be superior to Recast, as well as the overall functionality. The only area where Recast is better is for online streaming of live TV and recordings.


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

Because there is still some demand for it. For me, I would never need a 4 tuner in my area (especially when considering shifts in viewing to streaming). Your use-case is different - but many people (and I wager more and more each year) are just fine with 2 tuners. If the unexpected were to happen, I would add more SD tuners on the network in a setup where the number of tuners I want is limited only by my bank account.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

eherberg said:


> Because there is still some demand for it. For me, I would never need a 4 tuner in my area (especially when considering shifts in viewing to streaming). Your use-case is different - but many people (and I wager more and more each year) are just fine with 2 tuners. If the unexpected were to happen, I would add more SD tuners on the network in a setup where the number of tuners I want is limited only by my bank account.


That wasn't really my point. From a manufacturing perspective, is it really more expensive to produce a 4-tuner model over a 2-tuner model? If you don't need all 4 tuners that's great, but wouldn't you rather have more options than less? Sure, I could switch to a streaming service to watch something that I was not able to record, but why should I have to do that? I would think you are going to lose more potential customers by only selling a 2-tuner model and not selling a 4-tuner model at all.


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

For the network DVRs, such as Tablo and Recast, it is not just the tuners, but also the associated transcode hardware/software that will add to the mfr cost. Certainly not the case with the Edge OTA, but this may also be a function of the tuner design. The selectivity and signal lock were much higher on my old 2-tuner HD than my replacement 4-tuner Bolt. It is possible TiVo traded off more tuners for better tuner performance in the Edge OTA.


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

Likely true. Even with increased amplification, Tablo confirmed that the simple math of it is that a 2-tuner model is always going to perform better than a 4-tuner model. I'm sure with TiVo DVR's the same is true.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

tapokata said:


> It is possible TiVo traded off more tuners for better tuner performance in the Edge OTA.


Definitely possible. For me personally, I would rather have 4 tuners and deal with whatever degradation occurs than be limited to 2 tuners. A degraded picture on any channel is better than no picture at all


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

Adam C. said:


> Definitely possible. For me personally, I would rather have 4 tuners and deal with whatever degradation occurs than be limited to 2 tuners. A degraded picture on any channel is better than no picture at all


not to mention that 2-tuners = no minis


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Adam C. said:


> That wasn't really my point. From a manufacturing perspective, is it really more expensive to produce a 4-tuner model over a 2-tuner model? If you don't need all 4 tuners that's great, but wouldn't you rather have more options than less? Sure, I could switch to a streaming service to watch something that I was not able to record, but why should I have to do that? I would think you are going to lose more potential customers by only selling a 2-tuner model and not selling a 4-tuner model at all.


Well the list price seems to be quite a bit lower for the 2 tuner. 25% lower I think with lifetime.

And as someone pointed out in this thread or another one, the new competition is mainly 2 tuner. REcast, TAblo, etc.

I do agree 2 tuners is light. LIke with recording the NFL - you need to extend the recordings as games often run a bit long. And the NFL usually has 2 early games and 1 late game in the afternoon. AT 3pm CST, when the early games are almost over and the late game is going to begin, you are recording 3 channels. That alone blows away the 2 tuner limit. Now you can work around that manually or by extending the recordings a lesser amount of time. But now that I think about that, 2 tuners kind of sucks for NFL recording.

ON the other hand, there is some math that says 2 2 tuner OTA EDge Tivos would be about the same cost as a 4 tuner OTA EDge and a Tivo Mini. Or at least wouldn't be much higher. And thus you could have a 2 tuner Edge at each of your 2 tvs giving you 4 tuners.

I forget how easily Tivos share recordings. IF I remember right it isn't terrible nowadays, but not maybe ideal either. But I am not sure. (And if only Tivo had some software that transferred recording of a show to a 2nd Tivo if there was a conflict on the other.)


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

trip1eX said:


> ON the other hand, there is some math that says 2 2 tuner OTA EDge Tivos would be about the same cost as a 4 tuner OTA EDge and a Tivo Mini. Or at least wouldn't much higher.


but that would also require 2 antennas or you're back to splitting the signal off of one antenna


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

pfiagra said:


> but that would also require 2 antennas or you're back to splitting the signal off of one antenna


Yeah but what's your point? You are already splitting the signal again with a 4 tuner. That doesn't change with 2 2 tuner Tivos. Nothing lost, nothing gained in that dept. But, at least with 2 2 tuner Tivos, you have the option of using 2 antennas.

And actually 2 antennas might be preferable. I mean there always seems to be that one channel, at least in the 3-4 states that I've lived in, that needs, or does better with, a different antenna location.

The pt I was making is that you can create your own 4 tuner dvr with 2 2 tuner dvrs for what I'd consider a similar amt of $$$$ (as a 4 tuner Tvio and a MIni) in response to someone who asked, ' why are they making a 2 tuner dvr and is it that much less money to make?'


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

trip1eX said:


> And as someone pointed out in this thread or another one, the new competition is mainly 2 tuner. REcast, TAblo, etc.


The Recast has a 2-tuner and a 4-tuner model. I have the 4-tuner model. The picture quality is not as good as my 4-tuner Roamio OTA, but it is still very good overall, especially considering it is priced significantly less than what I paid for the Roamio.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Adam C. said:


> The Recast has a 2-tuner and a 4-tuner model. I have the 4-tuner model. The picture quality is not as good as my 4-tuner Roamio OTA, but it is still very good overall, especially considering it is priced significantly less than what I paid for the Roamio.


Yep I know. However from what I read the 4 tuner Recast can only record 2 channels at once or something like that.

Or it can record 4 channels, but only stream 2 shows or something? And if 2 people are streaming something then it can only record 2 channels?

I guess you'll let me know how it works exactly. I don't have one. But I read there was there was a bit of a catch to "4 tuners" that I don't think is present on a Tivo system because watching a recording on a Tivo system doesn't have anything to do with the number of tuners you have iirc.

And again, if you really want a new 4 tuner Tivo system then 2 2 tuner Tivos doesn't cost much more than 1 4 tuner Tivo and 1 Mini. You can create your own 4 tuner system on Tivo in other words. But yes it would be quite a bit more than a REcast system.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

trip1eX said:


> Yep I know. However from what I read the 4 tuner recast can only record 2 channels at once or something like that.
> 
> I guess it's it can record 4 channels, but only playback 2 shows or something? And if 2 people are watching something then it can only record 2 channels?
> 
> I guess you'll let me know how it works exactly. I don't have one. But I read there was there was a bit of a catch to "4 tuners" that I don't think is present on a Tivo system.


With the Recast you can record 4 channels at once, record 3 channels and watch a different channel live, etc. You can even record 4 shows at once and watch another recorded show.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Adam C. said:


> With the Recast you can record 4 channels at once, record 3 channels and watch a different channel live, etc. You can even record 4 shows at once and watch another recorded show.


Really? I read there was a catch to that.

CAn you watch more than 2 things at once?

I guess what I read was talking about watching live things only and he was just grumbling about that and I mistook the way he phrased it for something else.

It's the 2nd featured review on Recast on amazon btw. But anyway that was a tangent of mine.

Just buy 2 2 tuners if you want 4 tuners I guess is the thing to do if you want to stick with Tivo.


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

The Recast will not allow streaming to more than two screens at the same time. You can record two, and actively watch two others, or record three while watching one, etc. Recast records the native MPEG broadcast, and transcodes to 720p for live or playback. That is horsepower intensive, and results in the two stream output limit. Tablo transcodes while recording, so no further manipulation is needed at playback. Recast, IMO does a better job on the transcode, especially deinterlacing of SD broadcast material.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

tapokata said:


> The Recast will not allow streaming to more than two screens at the same time. You can record two, and actively watch two others, or record three while watching one, etc.


Good to know. I'm the only person in my home that uses the Recast so I never attempted to stream to more than 1 screen.


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

trip1eX said:


> Yeah but what's your point? You are already splitting the signal again with a 4 tuner. That doesn't change with 2 2 tuner Tivos. Nothing lost, nothing gained in that dept. But, at least with 2 2 tuner Tivos, you have the option of using 2 antennas.'


for me, and I'm sure others are in this situation, a second antenna would mean a higher cost for no benefit since I would need to purchase the second antenna as well as run coax to my second tv


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

pfiagra said:


> for me, and I'm sure others are in this situation, a second antenna would mean a higher cost for no benefit since I would need to purchase the second antenna as well as run coax to my second tv


I have one station that's 180 deg from the rest. I mounted a second antenna pointed that direction on the same mast and ran them both to a splitter in reverse right there on the mast (mine's in the attic). So still just one cable going to your TV. No dual input or switching required.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

pfiagra said:


> for me, and I'm sure others are in this situation, a second antenna would mean a higher cost for no benefit since I would need to purchase the second antenna as well as run coax to my second tv


Yeah I can see that. IT's a YMMV situation. I think there is a bit of benefit to it tho. The 2nd antenna can be positioned specifically for that one "flakey" channel that some of us have.


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## Jim1348 (Jan 3, 2015)

So, this is ATSC 3.0, right?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

eherberg said:


> If the unexpected were to happen, I would add more SD tuners on the network in a setup where the number of tuners I want is limited only by my bank account.


That'd be great if it were an option in the TiVo environment.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

pfiagra said:


> not to mention that 2-tuners = no minis


There's no restriction for a 2-tuner OTA EDGE acting as a Mini host DVR, is there? Once they switched to dynamic tuner allocation there was no *technical* reason a 2-tuner Premiere couldn't support Minis; they just didn't enable it.

That said, I have to assume that this footnote from the EDGE for Antenna sales page is a holdover from when the model had 4 tuners:

6 Streaming within the home from TiVo EDGE for antenna to another TV requires a separately purchased TiVo Mini. TiVo's iPhone & iPad apps also allow AirPlay Mirroring to Apple TV. TiVo EDGE for antenna works optimally with up to four (4) TiVo Minis. A network adapter (sold separately) may be required.​


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

krkaufman said:


> There's no restriction for a 2-tuner OTA EDGE acting as a Mini host DVR, is there? Once they switched to dynamic tuner allocation there was no *technical* reason a 2-tuner Premiere couldn't support Minis; they just didn't enable it.
> 
> That said, I have to assume that this footnote from the EDGE for Antenna sales page is a holdover from when the model had 4 tuners:
> 
> 6 Streaming within the home from TiVo EDGE for antenna to another TV requires a separately purchased TiVo Mini. TiVo's iPhone & iPad apps also allow AirPlay Mirroring to Apple TV. TiVo EDGE for antenna works optimally with up to four (4) TiVo Minis. A network adapter (sold separately) may be required.​


you could be right but I wasn't going to take the risk of purchasing a 2-tuner Edge only to find out that It wouldn't work with my Mini Vox. Therefore, I went with the 4-tuner before they went bye-bye


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

pfiagra said:


> you could be right but I wasn't going to take the risk of purchasing a 2-tuner Edge only to find out that It wouldn't work with my Mini Vox. Therefore, I went with the 4-tuner before they went bye-bye


Good call.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

wizwor said:


> Not a fan or rotors. In this day of unattended recording and multiple concurrent watchers, there are too many opportunities for conflict. If you have to move your rotor a couple times a year with no repack, then your setup is not tight. It's not like the other guys are moving their antennas around, right?


I don't have the rotor set to move the antenna for every channel change. My antenna is in the attic and I don't want to have to go in the attic to reposition it. I don't think the stations moved the antennas but two stations moved from UHF to VHF and one VHF station moved to a lower frequency. One station that moved to VHF comes in pretty good at night and I can record some late night shows but it's unwatchable in the daytime and that station is is in the opposite direction of all the other stations that broadcast from the same antenna farm.

I remember there was one station that moved back to VHF when they shut off the analog channels many years ago many viewers lost the channel. The station wattage was limited by the FCC at first and they had to get permission to increase the wattage which restored reception to many but not all viewers.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

I noticed Amazon is still selling the 4-tuner Roamio OTA (refurb) for $279 including all-in service. To me that still seems like a much better deal than a 2-tuner Edge with service fees. I am actually considering getting one as a backup. My Roamio is now over 4 years old and still going strong, but hard to say how much life it has left.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Adam C. said:


> I noticed Amazon is still selling the 4-tuner Roamio OTA (refurb) for $279 including all-in service. To me that still seems like a much better deal than a 2-tuner Edge with service fees. I am actually considering getting one as a backup. My Roamio is now over 4 years old and still going strong, but hard to say how much life it has left.


Yeah it's on Amazon but it's weaKnees selling it. ...Which is a good thing actually.

In addition it's only $250 on the weaKnees website.

YOu can even order a Roamio OTA with 20TB storage space for $1400 if you want. 

OH and if you want even more of a discount - well they sell it on Ebay too for $250. Ebay is frequently running 8% Ebay bucks back type deals.

Plus you can buy Ebay cards at stores. I can buy them at Target every day and get 5% off with the Redcard. That's another $12.50 off.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

trip1eX said:


> Yeah it's on Amazon but it's weaKnees selling it. ...it's only $250 on the weaKnees website...and if you want even more of a discount - well they sell it on Ebay too for $250. Ebay is frequently running 8% Ebay bucks back type deals. Plus you can buy Ebay cards at stores. I can buy them at Target every day and get 5% off with the Redcard. That's another $12.50 off.


Or check out of Weaknees using PayPal and pay with Discovercard for 5% cashback.


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## HoTatII (Sep 21, 2016)

For me personally, I'd love to have all TiVo Edges here even with only two tuners if I could afford them right now (financial issues due to the COVID-19 shutdown).

Have two OTA Roamios, a Bolt OTA/cable, an Edge, and a TiVo Mini ver. 2.

But the Roamio and Bolt tuners continue to suffer from a frustrating problem of apparent signal overload and breakup on some of my local channels. Whereas the Edge tuners aren't bothered by the high signal levels and handles them much better.

Live in a strong signal area of South LA about 20 mi. SW of the towers atop Mt. Wilson/Mt. Harvard.

The best that I can do to compensate is turn my antenna fully east and receive the stations off axis. But this really crushes the signal strengths of the lower power stations (CD and LP ones).

Note: BTW, no other ATSC tuners on other equipment here are bothered by the high signal levels either, just the TiVo Roamios and Bolt for some reason.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

HoTatII said:


> For me personally, I'd love to have all TiVo Edges here even with only two tuners if I could afford them right now (financial issues due to the COVID-19 shutdown).
> 
> Have two OTA Roamios, a Bolt OTA/cable, an Edge, and a TiVo Mini ver. 2.
> 
> ...


Have you tried an attenuator? (e.g.)


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

You can build your own attenators for the overloaded devices, by adding splitters before the Bolt. The Bolt’s automatic gain control circuit dampens down, as well as amplifies, signal at reception, thus most diagnostic screens show SS at the infamous “72%”. That said, I don’t think the problem is overload as much as Multipath. 

If the LOS is taking you through nearby foilage, Multipath is the likely culprit. UHF signals hate moving leaves, and the occasional changes in where the signal is coming from create problems at the Bolt tuner, which by design seemingly don’t handle these signal lock changes as well. It is helpful to know Edge has a tuner with better sensitivity and discretion, although disheartening if all you own are Bolts, like me.


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## HoTatII (Sep 21, 2016)

krkaufman said:


> Have you tried an attenuator? (e.g.)


Yep,

As I've actually been pulling my hair out over this problem trying different methods for the last several years now ....

And the problem with attenuators is that I found it takes almost 30db of attenuation at the inputs of the Roamios and Bolt to stop the channels from breaking up.

Which remarkably doesn't bother the full power stations. ...

But again the low power ones get totally wiped-out with that much attenuation ....

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

tapokata said:


> You can build your own attenators for the overloaded devices, by adding splitters before the Bolt. The Bolt's automatic gain control circuit dampens down, as well as amplifies, signal at reception, thus most diagnostic screens show SS at the infamous "72%". That said, I don't think the problem is overload as much as Multipath.
> 
> If the LOS is taking you through nearby foilage, Multipath is the likely culprit. UHF signals hate moving leaves, and the occasional changes in where the signal is coming from create problems at the Bolt tuner, which by design seemingly don't handle these signal lock changes as well. It is helpful to know Edge has a tuner with better sensitivity and discretion, although disheartening if all you own are Bolts, like me.


I agree, I don't think signal overload is the problem causing picture breakups on the Roamio. I live right outside NYC with clear line of sight to the towers on Empire and World Trade and I have never had any problem with my picture breaking up due to "overload".


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