# Virgin Media (xNTL) and Samsung SMT-2110C STB



## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

I've had a look at the long thread in the archive about the channel-changing problems with this cable box and can verify that the problem still exists . I don't remember there being any conclusions reached about the best was around it. I don't think using the IR wand would help as it's not really a Tivo problem, is it. I mean, Tivo _always_ assumes it has changed channel correctly 

I might call VM and ask (nicely) if they'll change the box for me. See how far I get  

Anyone got any thoughts or (helpful ) comments?


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

Not sure why you moved away from a Pace box but when Telewest changed a faulty Pace box for me and gave me a Scientific Atlanta I wasn't able to get consistent channel changes with Tivo. I explained it to someone in TW customer support and they got it swapped back for a Pace box.

From what I gathered most folks (Non Tivo type) preferred the newer SA and Samsung boxes as they appeared to be faster when using Teleport and other On Demand functions.

For us Tivo users that shouldn't be a factor.

One thing to bear in mind is that if your broadband is via your STB I believe the Pace boxes might be limited to a max 2MB.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

RichardJH said:


> Not sure why you moved away from a Pace box...


I didn't. It's what I was given. Had I know it was 'dodgy' I'd've tried to get another one there and then 



> From what I gathered most folks (Non Tivo type) preferred the newer SA and Samsung boxes as they appeared to be faster when using Teleport and other On Demand functions. For us Tivo users that shouldn't be a factor.


Yeah, I think they are.



> One thing to bear in mind is that if your broadband is via your STB I believe the Pace boxes might be limited to a max 2MB.


It's not so that's not an issue. I have a nice new NTL 250. Damned small thing it is too


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

RichardJH said:


> Not sure why you moved away from a Pace box but when Telewest changed a faulty Pace box for me and gave me a Scientific Atlanta I wasn't able to get consistent channel changes with Tivo.


For the record, my SA box (Explorer 4200DVB) never misses a channel change using the code SA 20004 SLOW

It does get VERY HOT though, much hotter than the old pace did.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

I was having a play last night and, when using the _original_ remote (ie the one that came with the box) it never misses a channel-change. So why does it do so when the Tivo tries to change channel? I'm gonna fit the wand today; see if that helps.


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## SJC (Mar 21, 2004)

well you've answered your own point about it not being a Tivo problem as the "real" remote works every time.

I understand that only 1 wand is meant to be used but picking up from an old thread someone found that using both worked better. I tried this several months ago and indeed it IS better. I have one top and one bottom. At the same time as using both wands I put Tivo and Samsung box onto a timer for them to power down for an hour or so each night. Results are not 100% but certainly in high 90s and within my patience tolerance limit :up:


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Yeah. I'm getting 90+ without the wand  I've added one now. Might add the other later. Will see how it goes.


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## childe (Jan 22, 2001)

Carl

I recently got them to swap my mother's samsung box for a pace 1000, on th4e basis that this had been requested when she ordered the service, but they still gave her a samsung box. It took some effort, mainly because they would not believe that she really did want a pace box. Twice they brought a new samsung box having assumed that the one she had was faulty, despite very clear reasons being given. Finally, I got them to bring a pace box, but even then the engineer told my Mum he did not understand why she wanted it as it was "crap". When she told him it was for her Tivo he tried to sell her the TV Drive, or whatever it is now called.

Anyway, perserverance did pay off and she is now getting 100% success with her pace box - so my advice is, keep trying.


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## Trevor73 (Feb 21, 2005)

FWIW - My 'channel change' nightmares with the Samsung STB ended completely when I ducktaped the two IR wands to the front of the STB (top & bottom) and covered the area and wands with alu foil to avoid any signal loss from the two IR wands. 

Not the most aesthetically pleasing solution (The Samsung is now out of sight behind the TV stand ) but it works like a dream! Never missed a recording since. 

Only downside is that the VOD and other functions no longer work as the foil stops the NTL remote signal getting through..

STB is on a timer here as well.

T


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Trevor73 said:


> Only downside is that the VOD and other functions no longer work as the foil stops the NTL remote signal getting through.T


Congratulations on finding a way to get 100% channel changing reliability. It seems like this box just isn't sensitive enough to the Tivo's IR wands in normal operating conditions. It sounds like you now need one NTL/Virgin box for dedicated use with your Tivo and another for watching live tv and using the interactive stuff.

With Freeview this would be no problem but I don't know if it can be done with NTL/Virgin if you pay them a fee for another box or can find one secondhand on Ebay or something?

Can you just split a cable signal like you can split a coax aerial signal or is it more complicated like a Sky satellite signal is and so requiring a second LNB on the dish or equivalent for cable (not that you have either a dish or LNB for cable though).


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Firstly it's _Virgin Media_!! 

Secondly, you can get a second STB but it will, of course, cost something per month; and no, you can't just get one off ebay as that would be illegal.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Firstly it's _Virgin Media_and no, you can't just get one off ebay as that would be illegal.


Well its not illegal to sell the box you own on Ebay for Sky or Freeview is it. 

Sounds like a restrictive anticompetitive practice to me by Virgin Media (nee NTL and Telewest) that people don't own their own boxes and can't sell them on Ebay, even after paying subs for a whole year. 

I'm sure that in practice these boxes can be bought somewhere secondhand, although may be you can't run a second cable box in your home anyway unless Virgin Media have configure their system to let you do so. I suppose the problem is that if you aren't paying a sub of some kind on the box then you don't get any channels at all? But what if you are already paying a sub for another box coming out of the same cable point? May be a second box you got hold of would then pick up the same channels?


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Well its not illegal to sell the box you own on Ebay for Sky or Freeview is it.


No, precisely because you don't OWN the cable box.



> Sounds like a restrictive anticompetitive practice to me by Virgin Media (nee NTL and Telewest) that people don't own their own boxes and can't sell them on Ebay, even after paying subs for a whole year.


I'll do the sarcasm, thanks 



> I'm sure that in practice these boxes can be bought somewhere secondhand,


They can sometimes be found on Ebay, yes. However, that doesn't make them useable.



> although may be you can't run a second cable box in your home anyway unless Virgin Media have configure their system to let you do so.


Exactly; and they will only so configure a box that you are renting from them.



> I suppose the problem is that if you aren't paying a sub of some kind on the box then you don't get any channels at all?


I would assume so. Never tried it myself.



> But what if you are already paying a sub for another box coming out of the same cable point? May be a second box you got hold of would then pick up the same channels?


No, because it hasn't been set up on the system. (See your earlier comment )

Unlike Sky, there is a return path and VM can tell if and when this return path is in use, either legally or not. Hence they can switch off boxes that have not been given-out by them. (Assuming they're looking of course )

In fact, other than the box is never actually yours to keep, it's _exactly_ like Sky's system. (Please note that I did not say "satellite" I said "Sky". Sky's system is as closed as cables. The available FTA channels are nothing to with Sky!)


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> In fact, other than the box is never actually yours to keep, it's _exactly_ like Sky's system. (Please note that I did not say "satellite" I said "Sky". Sky's system is as closed as cables. The available FTA channels are nothing to with Sky!)


I think Sky could have distributed boxes only capable of showing a picture if you were paying a subscription to them if they had wanted to, although I think the Office of Fair Trading or the regulators of the time might have had something to say about that. As it is Sky has made it as hard as possible to receive any channel on their box which is not in the EPG by making you add it as an Other Channel and not letting you access it via the regular channel number sequence. On a non Sky satellite box such a channel can be part of the main channel number sequence.

So Sky do in fact have a relationship with all the channels you can access in their main EPG as all those channels pay Sky a substantial fee to have a presence in that EPG.

An FTA satellite channel (Rapture Television) that was unhappy about the level of those Sky EPG fees took a case to Ofcom about it that it has just lost:-

See:- www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/draft_rapture_sky/

So it is wrong to say that Sky do not derive a financial benefit from any channel you can recieve on their box and that is listed in their EPG with a channel number.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Firstly it's _Virgin Media_!!


Don't forget Pete is one of Rupert's lackeys so will naturally support the Sky corporate line.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Don't forget Pete is one of Rupert's lackeys so will naturally support the Sky corporate line.


Hang on I thought you were the one with a free lifetime sub from Uncle Rupert to all of Sky's channels in return for agreeing to constantly positively promote all their latest and most expensive services in this forum.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> Don't forget Pete is one of Rupert's lackeys so will naturally support the Sky corporate line.


I'm saying nothing


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> So it is wrong to say that Sky do not derive a financial benefit from any channel you can recieve on their box and that is listed in their EPG with a channel number.


My point (though rather long-winded I suppose) was that access to the cable system is just as 'closed' as the ability to access _Sky's_ own channels. The one difference being that there are other channels on Astra that you can access with a Sky sub. whereas without a cable sub. you can't get anything.

However, the channels you can get on satellite (without a Sky sub) are, _mostly_, complete rubbish.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> However, the channels you can get on satellite (without a Sky sub) are, _mostly_, complete rubbish.


BBC One, BBC Two, BBC Three, BBC Four, CBeebies, CBBC,BBC News 24, BBC Parliament, ITV 1, ITV 2, ITV 3, ITV 4, Men & Motors, Channel 4, Film 4, Five, Five US, Five Life, Sky Three, Sky News, CNN, Euronews, France 24, Russia Today, Al Jazeerah English, Zone Reality, Zone Reality +1, Reality Tv Extra, Zone Horror, Zone Thriller, True Movies, True Movies 2, Movies 4 Men, Movies 4 Men 2, Travel Channel, Travel Channel +1, Wine Tv Overseas Property Channel, Baby Tv, Community Channel, Teachers Tv

To name the more watchable ones. Of the above only Channel 4, Five US, Five Life and Sky Three require a desubscribed Sky Viewing card or a Freesat From Sky viewing card. The rest can be viewed in any ex Sky subscription box, even without a viewing card. Even the full Sky EPG is still available. See www.freesatfromsky.co.uk for the full list of non subscription channels.

And on a desubscribed Virgin Media box you get what exactly? A blank screen.

Virgin Media shoot themselves in the foot by removing their equipment entirely from someone's home if they desubscribe to punish them. Whereas Sky leave their box there with a viewing card still working and ready to be reactivated at a moment's notice if they want to subscribe again. The Virgin Media strategy forces people to go off and get a Freeview box to replace their box permanently if they desubscribe.

Now which do you think is the more sensible marketing strategy?


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Now which do you think is the more sensible marketing strategy?


Wow, Sky's marketing is now "sensible". Pete, you feeling OK?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Wow, Sky's marketing is now "sensible". Pete, you feeling OK?


All Sky's marketing is usually sensible from their selfish profit maximising point of view.

Its interesting though that they have now just apparently changed their view that having Sky News, Sky Three and Sky Sports News on Freeview would be a useful way to lure customers into eventually signing up for the full Freeview service.

Ditto with their recent refusal to supply Sky One, Sky Two, Sky News etc to Virgin Media at a sensible price this seems to suggest that they think they could get more people to subscribe to Sky directly than they will lose indirectly via Virgin Media.

I believe the EPG arrangements and the FreesatFromSky arrangements were imposed by the regulator and are not necessarily those Sky would prefer to exist if it was given a totally free hand.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> I believe the EPG arrangements and the FreesatFromSky arrangements were imposed by the regulator and are not necessarily those Sky would prefer to exist


Wow! Are you now saying that OfCom isn't completely useless too? 

Have you been drinking?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> Wow! Are you now saying that OfCom isn't completely useless too?
> 
> Have you been drinking?


No it was the Independent Television Commission in those days who did a pretty good job as it happens, especially when it came to resurrecting the Freeview Phoenix out of the OnDigital ashes.

Rest assured that Ofcom are completely useless and will probably let Sky scrap their Freeview channels and replace them with Football channels so as to further devalue the worth of Freeview and to also try and put out of business their rivals TopUpTv and Setanta Sports in one fell swoop.

A total outrage which should not be allowed if Ofcom has any bones of principle whatsoever left in its now feeble and New Labour croney pleasing addicted body.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> To name the more watchable ones.


Well, the terrestrial's (and related channels) are a given of course!

Of the others you listed, some are available on VM so I wouldn't count those 

Let's say you listed about 20 "other" channels. Let's also stipulate a 'round figure' of 200 FTA channels. (I have a full-ish list here so I do know that that figure is somewhat accurate.)

So 10%, for you, are watchable. Fine, and yes they are probably the better of the FTA channels. However, does 90% make a good definition of "most"? I would say so. Therefore I was correct 



Pete77 said:


> Virgin Media shoot themselves in the foot by removing their equipment entirely from someone's home if they desubscribe to punish them. Whereas Sky leave their box there with a viewing card still working and ready to be reactivated at a moment's notice if they want to subscribe again. The Virgin Media strategy forces people to go off and get a Freeview box to replace their box permanently if they desubscribe.


If you want to re-suscribe to Cable, then they'll give you another box. What's the problem? Obviously you can't be messing them about by sub'ing one month then not the next. That would just be stupid 

For the sake of argument (and to level the playing field) let's say that none of those FTA (or FTV) channels existed; except through a Sky sub. (Let's pretend that, in the 80's, BSkyB launched their own satellite )

So, in that situation, you can't get any satellite channels without subscribing to Sky. Any difference to cable then? Nope 

It just so happens that Sky's delivery platform is on the same satellite as a lot of other, FTA channels. I'm sure Sky would have like to have one all to themselves though. Would certainly make things a lot easier for them.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Well, the terrestrial's (and related channels) are a given of course!


Not on a desubscribed Virgin Media box they aren't. They don't exist you just have a blank screen unless you happen to have an aerial and can get analogue tv and/or go and get a Freeview box to connect to that aerial. That was my point in terms of the difference between what happens when you desubscribe from Sky (you merely lose some pay channels and keep everything else the way it was) and when you desubscribe from Virgin Media (nee NTL or Telewest).



> If you want to re-suscribe to Cable, then they'll give you another box. What's the problem? Obviously you can't be messing them about by sub'ing one month then not the next. That would just be stupid


Say you realise the Test Cricket is on today or the Dakar rally starts today and you must watch it today. With Virgin Media you make a call and they say "the installer will be round in 2 weeks time" so you miss what you wanted to watch. With Sky the reactivate your subscription and the signal arrives turning those channels back on within an hour.

Result you would end up resubscribing to Sky to watch this program but not to Virgin Media. And as for messing them about as you call it that's what I do a couple of times a year with Sky for a month's sub. If Sky didn't have that system then they wouldn't enjoy my business at all. Some business is better than no business at all as the box is already long since paid for. If I buy Shell petrol today I am not forbidden from buying Tesco petrol tomorrow. It should be a free and competitive market and not one where people are locked in.



> For the sake of argument (and to level the playing field) let's say that none of those FTA (or FTV) channels existed; except through a Sky sub. (Let's pretend that, in the 80's, BSkyB launched their own satellite )
> 
> So, in that situation, you can't get any satellite channels without subscribing to Sky. Any difference to cable then? Nope
> 
> It just so happens that Sky's delivery platform is on the same satellite as a lot of other, FTA channels. I'm sure Sky would have like to have one all to themselves though. Would certainly make things a lot easier for them.


Yes but that isn't the situation is it and also the fact that the smart card remains enabled if you desubscribe for C4, Five, Five US and Five Life on a Sky Digibox is the result of regulatory intervention. So there is a FreeSat option but there isn't a FreeCable option. Or rather there will be a free cable option but only via ADSL broadband and you will have to pay for the Broadband service, although loads of tv program content will be free e.g at www.bt.com/btvision and other services soon to launch.

So Cable isn't as flexible as other mediums for watching tv as it has no FTA channels only option. That was my original point.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Not on a desubscribed Virgin Media box they aren't.


Oh, for Pete's (okay, actually the rest of our) sake GET OVER IT!!!

If there were only Sky channels available on Sky's satellite you non-subbec Sky box would be about as much use as a chocolate teapot as well!

[rest of pointless drivel snipped and ignored]


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Oh, for Pete's (okay, actually the rest of our) sake GET OVER IT!!!
> 
> If there were only Sky channels available on Sky's satellite you non-subbec Sky box would be about as much use as a chocolate teapot as well!


No this is an utterly crucial point which you continue to choose to ignore for your own reasons of pesumably Virgin Media loyalty.

There is an FTA use for a Sky box that will happily support a Tivo without a subscription being paid to Sky and there isn't one for a Virgin Media box which has to be subscribed or is to quote you about as much use as a Chocolate Teapot.

There isn't an FTA solution with Virgin Media and there is with Freeview and Freesat. That's the reality. There is a diference with having a Virgin Media set top box but you refuse to accept it as significant, even though for those of us who don't like chucking away hundreds of quid a year to Murdoch or the Branson empire it is a highly relevant factor as to which viewing platform we choose to support our Tivo.

Its nonsense for you to suggest that this is not a relevant factor when deciding which viewing platform to use with a Tivo. Just get over it............................


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

The crucial point of my post, which you obviously missed, was the "if". 

I guess we'll just have to agree to the fact that there are different platforms for different people.

Incidently, there's nothing to stop someone from getting this pack on cable (free tv when you take a phone line) then upping their sub to the next level on a month-by-month basis. So, a bit like Sky then; with the added bonus of getting Sky One without having to pay Sky £15 per month. (Until Wednesday, of course )


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Incidently, there's nothing to stop someone from getting this pack on cable (free tv when you take a phone line) then upping their sub to the next level on a month-by-month basis. So, a bit like Sky then; with the added bonus of getting Sky One without having to pay Sky £15 per month. (Until Wednesday, of course )


OK that's a fair point Carl but the main snag with Virgin Phone is that you have to make calls at their rates and can't use the cheapest call suppliers using indirect access codes with the cheapest indirect access companies like www.18185.co.uk or cheapest CPS companies like www.euphony.co.uk as you can with a BT line. And I assume that after the latest dispute Sky One will disappear from this package so that it will basically be Freeview delivered by cable? They don't list the full channel lineup annoyingly.

So up to a point there is a "free" cable tv option but only if you are prepared to be stuck with Virgin call prices and Virgin broadband. Whereas you can have an unsubbed Sky box and take your broadband and your phone from whoever you like independently of it. Of course if you live in a Virgin cable area or on a BT exchange area supported by Easynet LLU then you can get much better deals on phone, broadband and calls from Virgin and Sky. But in my rural area we don't have either of those options so an unsubbed Sky box looks like quite a good deal compared to the Virgin Media alternative.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> OK that's a fair point Carl but the main snag with Virgin Phone is that you have to make calls at their rates and can't use the cheapest call suppliers using indirect access codes with the cheapest indirect access companies like www.18185.co.uk or cheapest CPS companies like www.euphony.co.uk as you can with a BT line.


Yeah. You can use some of them, by using an 0800 number instead, but they usually offer slightly different rates  I understand that their are some changes due in May but I have no idea what they will be 



Pete77 said:


> And I assume that after the latest dispute Sky One will disappear from this package so that it will basically be Freeview delivered by cable? They don't list the full channel lineup annoyingly.


_May_ disappear  I'm hoping there'll be a deal yet. (Hey! I'm an optimist; usually )

Re the channel line-up, I'm sure they do have one somewhere. However, it's easier to find on my site 
http://www.virginmediainfo.co.uk/complete_channel_list.shtml

This page might also interest you. A direct comparison of all platforms. (Fairly up-to-date!)
http://www.virginmediainfo.co.uk/digitalchoice.shtml



Pete77 said:


> So up to a point there is a "free" cable tv option but only if...


 [more snippage]
Yeah, yeah. We know... cable bad, everything else good


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Yeah, yeah. We know... cable bad, everything else good


No, cable bad, Sky bad, anything that Pete hasn't got bad. Anyone who _has_ got what Pete hasn't got is a snob/brainwashed/stupid/aristocrat/employee of Pay TV company x.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> No, cable bad, Sky bad, anything that Pete hasn't got bad.
> 
> Anyone who _has_ got what Pete hasn't got is a snob/brainwashed/stupid/aristocrat/employee of Pay TV company x.


Well I have a Sky Digibox and I have been paying for the last couple of months for a £15 package while Paris -Dakar and the new episodes of Air Crash Investigation were on. The plug is about to be pulled and I will revert to Freesat. They may get another month out of me in June to watch the Le Mans 24 Hours and I suppose even if I go to Le Mans this year it could still be interesting to record the tv coverage of the race.

As to only what I have being good that just isn't so. I wholeheartedly recommend www.beunlimited.co.uk for broadband but you can't get it on my exchange and I also think Sky is not a bad deal in a family household where dad watches pay sport, mum watches home improvement and fashion programs and kids watch specialist kids programs. However I happen to think its rather pricey for me as I can't pay a fair price for the more limited number of channels and hours I watch and also Sky haven't Easynet enabled my largeish country exchange so I can't get their cheap ADSL2+ broadband which might also tempt me to sign up for a cheaper package that includes tv.

And as for thinking what only I have is good I rather always got the feeling about you Stuart and that the rest of us peasants weren't keeping up to date by not having the latest Sky HD, 50" LCD Tv, XBox and Windows MCE setup installed. Of course its good that someone has all this just so that the rest of us can get to hear what we are missing.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> ..I have been paying for the last couple of months for a £15 package.. The plug is about to be pulled and I will revert to Freesat. They may get another month out of me ...


I wasn't aware you could actually do that. I assume you're well out of your first year's contract though?

My parents have had Freesat for a while now. Any chance they could get this monthly thing?

Oh, and I wouldn't go _that_ far Stuart, but then I am slightly more... erm... diplomatic than some people on here


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> I wasn't aware you could actually do that. I assume you're well out of your first year's contract though?
> 
> My parents have had Freesat for a while now. Any chance they could get this monthly thing?


I'm on a product called Sky Month by Month which does exist if you ring and are persistent with their sales line but they are not at all keen to market it or sell it (because they don't make much money on it).

Basically with this product you pay a one off £99 to have a Sky Digibox and Minidish installed and you have to pay at least one month's initial subscription at install time at what is supposed to be £15 per month for their minimum Mix package + a £4 per month surcharge applicable on all Month by Month package rates. However in practice their computer doesn't seem to be able to cope with charging this £4 surcharge on Month by Month and you only seem to pay the normal monthly sub prices.

Its designed for customers who are such a bad credit risk that Sky doesn't want to install a dish and a box and then get only the first months payment of £15 in return for doing so. Thus by charging £99 for the install and box plus one months initial sub they have covered the majority of costs as a Digibox probably now costs Sky £35, a dish and LNB and cable £25 and the installer probably gets £40 allowed for the costs of his travel time and work (don't forget they are Sky employees at normal employee rates of say £20 per hour).

The good thing about it is that it is operated so you can basically subscribe for a week if you want to for a particular sports event or whatever. And the 0870 number you are given is a special one that always seems to be answered in about one ring unlike some other Sky customer lines.

Compare this with www.freesatfromsky.co.uk where you pay £150 for the dish and box and viewing card and then if after two years you decide to subscribe you are then told that means becoming a Sky subscription customer and that you must do a minimum of 1 year on an at leats £15 per month package. This on top of your £150 for Freesat. In other words a ripoff.

Any normal Sky subscription customer who has done 12 months on contract can desubscribe and then resubscribe later but under that deal they try to make you pay for a whole month at a time up front and also require a clear month's notice to desubscribe. And so you get caught if you try to desubscribe only 2 days into a new month by effectively not being able to desubscribe for 2 more months or else you pay for 2 months and only get service for 1 month.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Well they wouldn't need the dish and box so I suppose that's even less incentive for Sky to let them have it  Thanks for the info anyway.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Well they wouldn't need the dish and box so I suppose that's even less incentive for Sky to let them have it  Thanks for the info anyway.


Sadly I think its too late for your parents as they already have FreesatfromSky. I was really thinking of other people who only currently had Freeview but who wanted Sky because their Freeview reception was poor or they sometimes wanted to watch pay Sky tv channels for the odd month or two. For instance you might think it was worth having Sky as an alternative to Virgin Media just in case Sky continue playing silly so and sos on the Sky channels supply front to Virgin.

Actually though I have just remembered that www.quidco.co.uk will give you £55 cashback if you order a standard Sky box and dish install through them. So that would bring a Sky dish and box and one year's sub to 2 Sky Mixes down to £125, although if you don't already belong to Quidco there is a £10 subscription fee to pay, bringing the net price back to £135 for one year. After the one year you can desubscribe and opt in and out at will. This is probably better value than Sky Month by Month.

By the way Carl have you ever thought of getting into Freelance journalism as that doesn't require regular office routine or discipline but only judges everything on the basis of the articles you write. And despite your health difficulties I detect no weakness in the analytical abilities you possess when writing.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> By the way Carl have you ever thought of getting into Freelance journalism as that doesn't require regular office routine or discipline but only judges everything on the basis of the articles you write. And despite your health difficulties I detect no weakness in the analytical abilities you possess when writing.


I can write good  but have no journalistic training or ability whatsoever. Not sure I'd even know where to start with that. Besides, I don't know much about anything and don't have an opinion on even less; unlike some 

Thanks for the thought though


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> I can write good  but have no journalistic training or ability whatsoever. Not sure I'd even know where to start with that. Besides, I don't know much about anything and don't have an opinion on even less; unlike some


I don't think technical authoring or copy proofing or whatever needs you to have formal journalistic skills. Just being competent with English.

I think your problem is just having fallen out of the main employment system and so it being hard to get an opening again.

Mind you things have changed and these days big companies are often looking to have someone on their staff they can claim is in the disabled category so as to not face charges of disability discrimination. I suspect like me you have just given up on the whole job application thing for the time being finding it all too much hassle and too depressing.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

You might well be right  Actually, at least in terms of the law, I'm not technically disabled or I'd be getting a lot more benfefits and would have no need to look for a job; at least as a condition of receiving those benefits. It's a strange world


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

FWIW - a cable box is rented if it breaks they come and fix it or replace it for free. When you stop subscribing you are legally obliged to return their equipment so there is no such thing as a legal unsubscribed box. Cable have an enormous installed fleet of equipment which they have to count as assets, depreciate and service which makes their cost of operation higher but their total cost of ownership to a customer is more clear. This is either fair/stupid depending on your take on Virign Media's business.

A Sky box is bought, if it breaks after 12 months then you have to pay to fix it even if you continue to subscribe. The reason it doesn't shut down without a subscription is if if were useless without a subscription then it would be rented with the service (in the eyes of the regulator and the law) and Sky would have to keep fixing and replacing it for the duration of the contract.
Sky have limited their liablity for hardware support outside 12 months and built in a paid upgrade path to Sky+, Sky+ HD and whatever else comes along - which is clever/devious depending on your postion in their company.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

AMc said:


> This is either fair/stupid depending on your take on Virign Media's business.


I think we know which Pete77 would say  Of course, there are pros and cons for both systems.

To get back on-topic for a moment (scary, I know  ) but I'm still having problems with this box. It missed two channel-changes in a row last night; 142 to 120 and then to 144.

I really don't understand what the problem is. I mean, the box itself isn't faulty; channel-changes using the original remote are 100%. It's only when reacting to the wands that the problems start


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Is it using the same old Telewest remote? If it works OK with the old IRDA remote then it may not be so happy with Tivo's IR commands - they're really not the same thing at all.
Have you tried with/without a cable dongle?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> To get back on-topic for a moment (scary, I know  ) but I'm still having problems with this box. It missed two channel-changes in a row last night; 142 to 120 and then to 144.


Sounds like you need to build an aluminimum foil shelter to house your IR wands in front of the IR window then. The other poster who did this now reports 100% channel changing reliability.

Or you could of course get a Sky Digibox and get rid of the Virgin box as I get 99%+ channel changing reliability with just the IR wands and no alumininium foil shelter around the IR window and no Sky Eye direct connection to the Digibox.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

AMc said:


> Is it using the same old Telewest remote? If it works OK with the old IRDA remote then it may not be so happy with Tivo's IR commands - they're really not the same thing at all.
> Have you tried with/without a cable dongle?


Nope. It's standard IR as far as I know. Don't think it'd work _at alll_ without the dongle otherwise 



Pete77 said:


> Sounds like you need to build an aluminimum foil shelter to house your IR wands in front of the IR window then. The other poster who did this now reports 100% channel changing reliability.


Yeah. I read about that. Shouldn't really need it, though 



Pete77 said:


> Or you could of course get a Sky Digibox...


I shoulda known you'd get a dig in somewhere 

I'm quite happy with cable thanks, and I got 99.9% accuracy with my old Pace 2000 when I was with TW. I'd ask for mine to be exchanged for one of those if I thought there was any chance of them doing so. Then again, with around 600 hour's-worth of VOD on the way I might stick with this new box as it's better at that than the old Pace ones.

BTW, yes you did read that right. SIX HUNDRED HOURS of VOD material, including Films, the best of the last week's TV and lot of new (and hopefully cable-exclusive) content. We'll have S3 of "Lost" in August 

No way will Sky beat that; even with their Sky 'download it to your box before you can view it' Anytime


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

cwaring said:


> Nope. It's standard IR as far as I know. Don't think it'd work at alll without the dongle otherwise


The Pace 4000s worked with both the Telewest 'shark' grey/blue remote which used IRDA and with IR remote codes from Tivo (no dongle). So they understood both normal IR and IRDA.
The Pace 1000/2000 would only work with IRDA remotes (dongle required).

Neither the grey/blue or the later silver remote would program my Philips Pronto learning remote so I assumed they both sent IRDA only and this was what all the boxes expected to get?

My experience was the 4000 was less reliable using normal IR than it was with the dongle doing the translation to IRDA. I always assumed that Telewest programmers worked with IRDA and the IR compatibility was an after thought - certainly that was what they implied when they rolled out a software update in 2002 and broke my brand new non-dongled Tivo leading me to buy the dongle from customer services.

What I've been trying to get at in a very roundabout way is .... does the box work at all with a dongle? That would be worth trying if it improves the reliablity


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

AMc said:


> What I've been trying to get at in a very roundabout way is .... does the box work at all with a dongle? That would be worth trying if it improves the reliablity


I'm with Beecham on this. Try anything once; except incest and morris dancing. Will let you know how it goes.


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## worthit (Nov 8, 2002)

If I'm recording 2 programmes on the same channel, one after the other, the TiVo will send a signal but the box goes to the 'blue' screen saying 'your TiVo cannot display etc...'

i.e. I wanted to record 3 programmes on Channel 104 (C4) last week

20.00 Relocation Relocation
21.00 Jamies Chef
22.00 Desp Hwives

It changed ok for Reloc x2, but went to the blue screen for jamies chef (so it didn't get recorded) and then changed again for Desp, which was recorded.

Is there any way around this?? I'm using the front blaster and changes to different channels seem ok.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

It should have stayed on the one channel and just showed a new program banner as it ended one recording and started the next.

Sounds like it tried to change to that channel number but on a different recording source (eg Freeview or internal aerial) that you don't actually seem to have available if you got the Blue screen.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Tivo sends a new channel change signal for every recording, even if it is on the same channel. 

It may change ok 5 times out of 6, but miss a digit the 6th time ... 104 becomes 14 (non existant channel)

Maybe spend a while on the tivo code setup page and try many channel changes, not just one or two ? Try moving to the SLOW version of the code. And of course have a fiddle with the wand positions


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> It may change ok 5 times out of 6, but miss a digit the 6th time ... 104 becomes 14 (non existant channel)


Channel 14 isn't non existent if you have a dual Sky Freesat and Freeview setup though. For me it would merely have changed channels to E4.  :up:


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## worthit (Nov 8, 2002)

mikerr said:


> Tivo sends a new channel change signal for every recording, even if it is on the same channel.
> 
> It may change ok 5 times out of 6, but miss a digit the 6th time ... 104 becomes 14 (non existant channel)
> 
> Maybe spend a while on the tivo code setup page and try many channel changes, not just one or two ? Try moving to the SLOW version of the code. And of course have a fiddle with the wand positions


Yes, I know it does thatand like you say, it has probably missed a digit. Recorded 2 progs tonight on the same channel and it did it ok. Will try slow version of the code to see how I get along. Not using dongle/wand


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

worthit said:


> Not using dongle/wand


Well there is your problem. The IR blaster is not a reliable method to change channels on a set top box in most circumstances.

You need to use the IR wands immediately in front of the IR window on the Set Top Box. You lie them on top of it and then have them poking out just in front of the IR window. Of course if you don't mind missing channel changes and losing programs then its up to you but using only the IR blaster and not the IR wands will always give channel changing issues.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

AMc said:


> .... does the box work at all with a dongle? That would be worth trying if it improves the reliablity





cwaring said:


> Will let you know how it goes.


Completely failed to respond at all when I used the dongle.

FWIW I think I've finally nailed the symtoms. After more than 2 mins of not changing channel, it always missed the first digit. If you change channel again (no matter how many times) with a couple of mins it works fine


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Completely failed to respond at all when I used the dongle.
> 
> FWIW I think I've finally nailed the symtoms. After more than 2 mins of not changing channel, it always missed the first digit. If you change channel again (no matter how many times) with a couple of mins it works fine


Sounds like may be Gary could some how modify the code to send some kine of wake up signal to the box before channel changing numbers are sent?


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Carl - I've got a 2100C, which was a pig to start with, but I've got something which works - not 100%, but good enough. I have BOTH dongles on the box - one above and one below. They're just to the left of the channel digits. No foil hats or other doobries.

The Samsung box seems to have a memory\buffer corruption issue over time - when TiVo starts missing digits, I reboot the STB. This is probably once a week but I haven't kept count. Yes, it's always the first digit.

The other thing that affects accuracy is whether the sun is shining across\near the box. From about 2 to 3pm on a Sunny day, TiVo has problems due to sunlight. The blue remote for the STB seems to be able work still, though.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

FWIW 'The Wands' is generally used to describe the IR leads themselves. The term 'cable dongle' or 'dongle' usually (but not always) refers to the Tivo Cable Adapter which has a mains power supply. The TCA converts the IR standard signals output by Tivo to IRDA standard which older cable boxes need. The TCA plugs into the IR port of the Tivo 'the wands' connect to it and are placed near the remote sensor on the cable box.

I realised re-reading that this wasn't obvious in my terms.

(Continuing to ask silly questions of Carl) - you did change the channel changing codes on Tivo when you tried the dongle didn't you?

Perhaps if you and Colin compare codes you may get where you need to go?


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

I must admit I didn't know about the TCA and assumed that references to 'dongle' meant the wands. My bad.

So, for clarity - I've got the two standard IR wands on the Samsung box. I'll take a piccie if that's still not clear. <wibble>

I'm using 20045 medium I believe (not near TiVo at moment).


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

ColinYounger said:


> Carl - I've got a 2100C, which was a pig to start with, but I've got something which works - not 100%, but good enough. I have BOTH dongles on the box - one above and one below. They're just to the left of the channel digits.


Again, I'll try re-positioning mine.



> No foil hats or other doobries.


Nah. I'm not a conspiracy theorist either 



AMc said:


> (Continuing to ask silly questions of Carl) - you did change the channel changing codes on Tivo when you tried the dongle didn't you?


Oh, ermm... no. Didn't realise I needed to. Don't know which code I should use. I think I got the current (no dongle) code off Gary's site. Is there a better one now or something?


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Tivoportal.co.uk said:


> Pace 1000 and 2000 series
> Supported: You need to purchase an IR adaptor from TiVo Customer Services (08702 41 84 86) to allow TiVo to control this box (it costs £30). With the adaptor use codes 20035 under manufacturer Pace (or 20021 or 20004 if this doesn't work)


I used to use 20004 Fast with both a Pace4000 and Pace2000 using the cable adapter with no channel change failures that I remember in >4 years (before I moved house).


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ColinYounger said:


> The Samsung box seems to have a memory\buffer corruption issue over time - when TiVo starts missing digits, I reboot the STB. This is probably once a week but I haven't kept count. Yes, it's always the first digit.


Carl if you get a simple digital timer (Halfords have a good Masterplug digital LCD one that is also compatible with low output devices like a Cable box that only costs £5) and shut the Pace box off at 5am every morning for 5 minutes it ought to possibly avoid most if not all of your problems.

My Pace TU-DSB 20 would always have some software crash in the end if I left it on indefinitely for days on end but now shutting it off once a day it seems fine. Of course the Sky code actually sends the Sky button before a recording which turns the box on and I also have a 2 minute manual recording at 5.10am every day to do just that so the box is always on and ready to go when a real recording comes round. But I don't know if the NTL codes turn the NTL box back on again after a power off like the Sky Tivo codes do or if it even turns itself back on again (as my Netgem Iplayer Freeview box does) automatically on the same channel as before the power out (once power is finally restored).


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> But I don't know if the NTL codes turn the NTL box back on again after a power off like the Sky Tivo codes do or if it even turns itself back on again (as my Netgem Iplayer Freeview box does) automatically on the same channel as before the power out (once power is finally restored).


AFAIK, no to all of that


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Both types of Pace box I had restarted and went to channel 890 after a hard reset. They were responsive to a channel change after that without any further timed recordings etc.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

My Pace box after a power off always goes to 890 as well. I believe with the rollout of the new Virgin Media EPG with new menus etc after a power off it will go to the last channel used.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

But do either of you think that a once a day power off on a timer would help reduce or eliminate Carl's problem with non responsiveness to Tivo IR commands?


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

When I was using my Pace 4000 without a Tivo Cable Adapter (dongle) I certainly found that a daily restart gave it better consistency with channel changes. After reading somewhere that although the 4000 was built to respond to IR it was better using IRDA so I bought a dongle and dispensed with the daily restart. That was over a year ago and all has been well.

Having a V+ installed tomorrow and hoping that my second Tivo will control the live tuner OK


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

I used to use a 4000 with a dongle and a daily restart. I never had a problem with channel changing but the odd warning message from Telewest would need an OK to clear messing up the box for days on end. A swift kick in the in the plug at 5.56am meant I never lost more than a day's recordings and never missed a channel change at all.

Similar results with the 2000 I got when the 4000 went to silicon heaven.


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## tankstage (Jan 8, 2005)

I get the first digit missed problem sometimes, but even worse is the box seems to change channel on its own !. 
I have seen in recordings (most at 8.00pm !!) the digits of the channel being repeated, but at a very slow rate. EG. Stargate Atlantis last week. 
After about 35 mins the 1 digit popped up in the top right hand corner (new VM software) about 10 mins later the 2 digit appeared. 
These had no effect on the recording as there is no channel 1 or 2. 
The the 0 digit appeared about 5 mins later. This then changed the box to the On Demand ? screen. 
I have seen the digits appear in other recordings, but have no effect unless the last digit is 0. 
I don't have the noreddot or any channel repeat module installed. 

Tank


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## Kingpleb (Mar 7, 2003)

Ok so if im reading this correctly when it WAS On Topic....

I can simply call Virgin Media and request a box change??

I have tried this yonks ago but got nowhere... though i can try again as now even the STB resets are not helping us with our tivo 

Also i know virgin offer Quadplay services now but why cant they call them Fourplay???


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Well, I had two correct channel-changes in a row earlier tonight, so things are looking up :up: 

kingpleb, you can always ring and ask. Unfortunately, I don't think they are under any obligation to do so if the box isn't actually technically _broken_. That is can't be controlled by a Tivo is not their problem.


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## Kingpleb (Mar 7, 2003)

Ive changed ours to the 45, medium and it seems better with one wand but is still hit and miss mostly missing the first digit 

Gunna ring up and ask for a pace box, if not just cancel it as i have 2 boxs with them, phone and 10smegband and after 7years i think they have got enough money from me now...


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Well, for the record I have now had THREE perfect channel changes in a row. Here's where the wands are placed:


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Well, for the record I have now had THREE perfect channel changes in a row. Here's where the wands are placed:


I wonder if you shouldn't have had them pushed a bit further out in front of the box just to ensure maximum signal spread on to the IR window. I found that helped on my Sky box.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Come on Carl you're just teasing these poor people - what settings are you using?

tankstage - first thing I would recommend is pulling the plug on the cable box for a few seconds to clear the internal memory out, this often sorts out problems.

second thing to suggest is to check for InfraRed interferance - low energy light bulbs, PCs with IR ports and other remotes with books pressing down the buttons can all generate unwanted IR. If Tivo 'sees' infra red it will hold off requesting a channel change until it's clear.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

AMc said:


> Come on Carl you're just teasing these poor people - what settings are you using?


Someone else already mentioned it. I'm using 200045-fast. Oh yeah, I did "pull the plug" as well.



Pete77 said:


> I wonder if you shouldn't have had them pushed a bit further out in front of the box just to ensure maximum signal spread on to the IR window. I found that helped on my Sky box.


Seem to work fine where they are. I just changed from 101 through to 105 without a problem


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Someone else already mentioned it. I'm using 200045-fast. Oh yeah, I did "pull the plug" as well.
> 
> Seem to work fine where they are. I just changed from 101 through to 105 without a problem


Seems like you also need to add a timer to shut it off at 5am for 3 minutes or whatever. Although that depends how your box comes back up after a power off and how it then responds to the next channel change command from the Tivo. You would need to add a once day manual record of a couple of minutes to reinitialise it after the power off ideally too. Once a day and keep at most 1 episode manual season pass kind of thing.

Not all timers are suited to low current devices like a Digibox. The one at Halfords is though and only costs a fiver.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Although that depends how your box comes back up after a power off and how it then responds to the next channel change command from the Tivo.


Last channel and no problem respectively 

Obviously I'll be keeping an eye on it, but it seems fine so far.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

FWIW (and I admit not much) - when I used a timer on my cable box I timed the reboot cycle (about 2 mins) then I set a digital timer to cut the power for 1 minute at 5:56. That meant my suggestions for "New Yankee Workshop" were able to record at 6am and anything recording in the 5:30-6am slot only lost the adverts.

Keep away from the clockwork ones, they only work in 15minute increments, the clocks drift over time and my parents have one that squeaks like a mouse - yuk.


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## tankstage (Jan 8, 2005)

AMc said:


> tankstage - first thing I would recommend is pulling the plug on the cable box for a few seconds to clear the internal memory out, this often sorts out problems.
> 
> second thing to suggest is to check for InfraRed interferance - low energy light bulbs, PCs with IR ports and other remotes with books pressing down the buttons can all generate unwanted IR. If Tivo 'sees' infra red it will hold off requesting a channel change until it's clear.


I have tried the reboot method with some success, but not a complete fix. It seems the longer the unit is left on, the missed channel change seems to improve.

The channel change is not the original request, as that works, but it seems to be repeated later by the Samsung box.

As far as stray IR, the unit is in a cupboard. (as in picture).


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Now THAT's wiring!

I haven't seen the Samsung box 'repeat' a channel change, unless it's been told to go to an incorrect channel number (i.e. you put in '01', and it ignores the numbers). But that doesn't affect the picture. As bizarre as it sounds, AMc's theory of stray IR is the only thing I can think of too.


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## tankstage (Jan 8, 2005)

ColinYounger said:


> Now THAT's wiring!
> 
> I haven't seen the Samsung box 'repeat' a channel change, unless it's been told to go to an incorrect channel number (i.e. you put in '01', and it ignores the numbers). But that doesn't affect the picture. As bizarre as it sounds, AMc's theory of stray IR is the only thing I can think of too.


But how can stray IR repeat exactly the channel numbers in the correct order but over a variable time period ??

Tank


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

If Tivo sees IR when it tries to change channels then it waits until it's 'clear' before sending - if that takes a long time then Tivo will wait I believe.
It certainly sounds like the cable box is at fault to me but if it's intermittent and takes 35 minutes to happen it's going to be very difficult to diagnose.
As you appear to have IR controls from outside the cupboard you've got a lot of variables to try and exclude.

My first port of call would be to completely seal the Samsung box IR and display in foil so that only Tivo's wand can send it IR. Then restart the cable box for good measure and see if it happens again.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Just a silly question, but how do the units in the cupboard receive their IR signals? Is there a clear door to the cupboard?


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## tankstage (Jan 8, 2005)

AMc said:


> If Tivo sees IR when it tries to change channels then it waits until it's 'clear' before sending - if that takes a long time then Tivo will wait I believe.
> It certainly sounds like the cable box is at fault to me but if it's intermittent and takes 35 minutes to happen it's going to be very difficult to diagnose.
> As you appear to have IR controls from outside the cupboard you've got a lot of variables to try and exclude.
> 
> My first port of call would be to completely seal the Samsung box IR and display in foil so that only Tivo's wand can send it IR. Then restart the cable box for good measure and see if it happens again.


Maybe I haven't made it clear, the channel change works straight away. Then at a later period (of undefined length, the times I mentioned were an example) the digits are repeated.
I was watching a recording last night. It was from the SciFi channel.
About 25 mins into the recording, the digits 120 were sent with delays between each digit.
This caused the box to switch to channel 0.
A few minuets later, 179 was sent at normal speed, and the box switched back to SciFi !!!
The box had been on 120 before the recording started.

so this time, the last two changes were repeated.

Is is at random channel changes when this happens, so I can't repeat it reliably.

There is no other source of IR information to the box, as only the TiVo has control
(The boxes remote is in a drawer without batteries).


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## tankstage (Jan 8, 2005)

ColinYounger said:


> Just a silly question, but how do the units in the cupboard receive their IR signals? Is there a clear door to the cupboard?


I have an Harmony 895 with the RF receiver unit. The cupboard is in a study room about 5M from the main TV.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

It seems very improbable that it's Tivo resending the channel change as you described - isolating the IR input from Tivo to the cable box would rule out any other stray pick up as a result of IR/RF interference - but it picking the same channel numbers makes that pretty unlikely too.

Sorry can't help you much more - I would regularly power cycle the cable box and cross your fingers for a few days.


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## tankstage (Jan 8, 2005)

AMc said:


> It seems very improbable that it's Tivo resending the channel change as you described - isolating the IR input from Tivo to the cable box would rule out any other stray pick up as a result of IR/RF interference - but it picking the same channel numbers makes that pretty unlikely too.
> 
> Sorry can't help you much more - I would regularly power cycle the cable box and cross your fingers for a few days.


I never thought it was the TiVo causing the channel changes, I was just wandering if anyone else was having similar problems.

Just as a test, I got the box remote out, and went through some of the menu sequences.

Sure enough later on it did the same sequence on its own !!!

Tank


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Tank - check your hacks!

ISTR a hack that would ensure you don't miss a channel change, which would send a channel change some 30 seconds (or something) after a recording start.


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## tankstage (Jan 8, 2005)

ColinYounger said:


> Tank - check your hacks!
> 
> ISTR a hack that would ensure you don't miss a channel change, which would send a channel change some 30 seconds (or something) after a recording start.


As mentioned in my first post, I have none of that type of hack installed and even if I did, how could it then send the commands that the boxes own remote sends ???

Cheers

Tank


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Tank - sorry for the inattention; it was before dinner, so I plead hunger. 

There is a program on the TiVo which can act like you pressing the TiVo remote control. So you could have a script that pretends you've pressed '101' which TiVo then sends remote control codes to the STB. 

The hacks you mentioned do this, and that's why I had the pre-dinner inspiration.

I've had dinner now, so I'll shut up.


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