# Microsoft Zune and Tivo2Go



## RFW (Dec 10, 2006)

I'm looking around for a nice portable Personal Media Player that support Tivo2Go. Was almost ready to buy the Creative Zen:M, but then Microsoft came out with the Zune. Does anyone know if it will or is Tivo2Go compatible? If not, does Tivo plan on adding support for this device similar to the already listed devices?


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## mpauley (Mar 20, 2002)

Head on over to Woot.com today. They have a "Dreameo Enza 20GB Portable Media Center" which is TivoToGo compatible for $129.99
+ $5 shipping.


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## FL-Larry (Sep 26, 2006)

From all the reviews I've read it sounds like the Zune isn't quite ready for prime time.


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## prcharlie (Nov 27, 2006)

I have the desktop plus and it works great with my Zune. I have even set up auto transfers of my favorite shows that go straight to my Zune media library.


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## mickeysgyrl (Dec 17, 2006)

I just became a plus member and I'm not sure how to export/import to my ipod. can someone please guide me. also I had an interruption to my network and now I cant download any shows to my computer. I keep getting a network error. PLEASE HELP!!!!


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## sean808080 (Sep 30, 2002)

my boss gave me a zune and i love it. i wouldn't have bought it but now that i have it i can recommend it. i got the tivo programs to play on it without too much trouble.

enjoy


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## Darrelpr (Mar 28, 2003)

FL-Larry said:


> From all the reviews I've read it sounds like the Zune isn't quite ready for prime time.


Granted, the iPod feels and looks "sexier" but Zune's interface and video capabilities are better. Microsoft has also hinted at additional features and services that will be made available for it in the not too distant future - via firmware and software updates. Never underestimate the amount of $$$ and resources Microsoft will throw at a product to get it entrenched in the market (eg Xbox).

In any event, it's good to see Apple getting some competition from a competitor with deep pockets. Win/win for everyone.


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## Darrelpr (Mar 28, 2003)

sean808080 said:


> my boss gave me a zune and i love it. i wouldn't have bought it but now that i have it i can recommend it. i got the tivo programs to play on it without too much trouble.
> 
> enjoy


What did you have to do to get the .tivo files to playback on the Zune?


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## ylla (Oct 6, 2002)

Darrelpr said:


> What did you have to do to get the .tivo files to playback on the Zune?


I use the Tivo Desktop 2.3 to copy and convert the Tivo files to MPEG4 or PSP (H.264 format works also) and then the ZUne software converts it and copies it straight to my Zune; the ZUne software recognizes all those formats and converts automatically.


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## Darrelpr (Mar 28, 2003)

ylla said:


> I use the Tivo Desktop 2.3 to copy and convert the Tivo files to MPEG4 or PSP (H.264 format works also) and then the ZUne software converts it and copies it straight to my Zune; the ZUne software recognizes all those formats and converts automatically.


Gotcha'. I knew that Zune's software would do the necessary conversion but it wasn't recognizing my *.tivo files. Therefore, I'm assuming you're using Tivo Desktop _Plus_. The free version of Desktop doesn't include the conversion tools. I've been evaluating some 3rd party apps that convert *.tivo to Zune but to keep it simple, I'll probably end up sending Tivo yet more $$ to upgrade to Plus.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

For better or worse, the Zune "native" video format is .wmv, which is why you have a long delay for conversion when you sync a mpeg4 (h264, psp, etc.) to it. If you have a .wmv file the sync is fast, e.g., 26 seconds for a 44 minute video at 700 Kbps.

I might be tempted to get DeskTop plus, but:
1. I would still have to wait while it converted to .wmv during Zune sync.
2. As I understand it, my PC would be converting every transfered TiVo file to the compact format, while I might not want all of them converted that way.

I've been free-trial evaluating three Zune converter programs costing $30 or less (XiliSoft, CuCuSoft, and MovieTaxi). The CuCuSoft program  seems the clear winner so far. Encoding time is 35% to 40% of video duration (much faster than the others) and it will produce either mp4 types or .wmv format. It doesn't claim to support TiVo files directly so you have to "free" the mpeg2 from the TiVo. (I use VideoReDo, which also does a clean up and can remove commercials -- $50 and well worth it.)

I've also been experimenting with DivX encodes to put on DVD's for my Philips DVP5960 player ($70 and DivX Ultra Certified!). So I've tried inputing the DivX files into the CuCuSoft converter, (renamed with .avi extension). Works just as well as the mpegs.

So it looks like some tradeoffs are:
1. Automatic file conversion with DT+ (both good and bad aspects)
2. Probably more flexible choices of output formats and parameters with CuCuSoft. (Good unless you are always satisfied with one fixed choice.)
3. Need to free TiVo to mpeg2 with CuCuSoft (bad unless you want to clean up the mpeg or edit out commercials.)
4. Price: $25 vs $30 -- insignificant difference.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

I've put together a set of two (Windows) batch files that automatically process a list of mpeg2 file names to Zune WMV files that transfer to the Zune fast without requiring re-encoding. The only manual step other than putting the file names in the first batch file using notepad, is to convert the TiVo files to mpeg2 for which I use VideoReDo (although I've heard you can use directShowDump if you don't want to edit out commercials or benefit from the VRD clean up.)

The process uses several free programs:
DGMPGDec DGIndex
AviSynth
Windows Media Encoder and the command-line script for it.

Downloading and installing these programs only takes a few minutes.

*I'm considering writing up a detailed guide for this process if there is some interest*. It would cover downloading and installing, customizing the batch files to your particular computer folders, and usage, plus hints on how to vary some of the encoding parameters for different quality/speed tradeoffs.

Total encoding times as small as 35% of video duration can be achieved on my 3 GHz machine using WMV7 codec, and CBR, single-pass encoding at 500 kbps, and I can't see any significant quality loss compared with slower encoding parameters (e.g., WMV9 codec, 2-pass VBR , which takes about 120% of video duration). However I would describe in the guide how to set up either "profile" and you would easily be able to design your own.

I might put the guide on VideoHelp.com since they are set up for handling guides but I think the most interest would come from TiVo users, so I am posting this here to guage the level of interest.

Let me know if you would be interested!

(Or are there only about 3 of us Zune users on this forum!  )


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## MusicMama (Mar 6, 2005)

Thanks to the comments on this thread, I downloaded and tried the Cucusoft video suite to see if it would work for the zune I bought hubby for Christmas. He wanted a very simple, few-steps-as-possible way to put shows on the zune.

Once we tried the Cucusoft app, there was no need to try anything else - we already use DSD as a post-Tivo-transfer step, and this was just a great extension to it. So we shelled out the $ for the suite.

While I'd love to be using more freeware, it's a convenience thing for hubby.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

dlfl said:


> I've put together a set of two (Windows) batch files that automatically process a list of mpeg2 file names to Zune WMV files that transfer to the Zune fast without requiring re-encoding.
> .........
> *I'm considering writing up a detailed guide for this process if there is some interest*.
> ........
> ...


In a very rapidly developing situation, a better (and still free) way than my batch files has emerged in the form of AutoMKV. For details go to this post on the Doom9 forum.

I may write a small guide to help people avoid the learning time I had but my advice would be to go to the AutoMKV "Home Post" and go ahead and download what is required. Everything you need is defined and linked in that post.

If anyone is interested in a short guide to make it easy to set up AutoMKV for quick Zune conversions from TiVo-originated mpegs, please post.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

I've posted a detailed guide on VideoHelp.com  for quick (free) conversion of mpeg2 videos to Zune-compatible WMV files using AutoMKV. It includes detailed instructions for downloading and installing the required support programs also.

It works for mpeg2's with either kind of audio (mpeg or AC3) and does batch encoding too. AutoMKV does a lot more than this too. I've installed it on two computers now with no problems. With the furnished instructions you should be up and converting within less than an hour.


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## selfexpressions (Jan 30, 2007)

I bought the Zune on Saturday, hoping to be able to watch my TV shows while working out at the gym, but I've had trouble getting the shows into a format that the Zune will play, even after purchasing the upgrade to the Tivo Desktop Plus software. 

I downloaded Desktop Plus last night in hopes that it would automatically convert the tivo files to a format that I could play on the Zune, but it didn't work. I chose "MPEG4" in the section where it allows you to choose the portable file format. I launched the MPEG4 files in the Zune software, and they would play in the Zune software, but they refused to sync to the Zune. I'm trying another download tonight with the format set to "H264 compatible devices (such as ipod)" and will try that next, but it's taken all night to download the show and convert it. (The conversion is about 50% done, so I hope to test it tonight before I go to bed.) After searching for help and finding this forum, I downloaded a trial of cucusoft, and it converted the MPEG4 files quickly and easily and they are now running fine on my Zune (with the watermark annotating that it is a trial version). That software worked great, so I will go ahead and buy it if I have to, but I was hoping that just purchasing the tivo desktop plus upgrade alone would convert the files properly. 

Is there some step that I am missing between downloading the show, letting tivo desktop plus convert it to MPEG4, and then synching it to my Zune? Everything works fine until the step where I try to sync the MPEG4 file to my Zune, and then that step refuses to work unless I first run the MPEG4 through the Cucusoft software. Thanks in advance for your help!


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

The only native format for Zune devices is WMV with specified parameters. See details here.

Some other WMV's and MPEG4's will be transcoded when you synch - taking a long time. Others are just rejected.

What surprises me is that a video would play in the Zune software player but not synch. My experience has been either it won't play/won't synch or will play/will synch (possibly with transcoding).

Until they modify the CuCuSoft converter to source TiVo files, I think you have two choices:
1. What you have already done.
2. Convert the TiVo to mpeg2 with DirectShow Dump (free, just google), then input that into CuCuSoft. The DSD conversion is very fast, a few minutes per hour of video. Consider VideoReDo instead of DSD. It's $50 but everyone loves it. You can edit out commercials, even detect them automatically. It does lots of other tricks too.

BTW, conversion to WMV goes much faster if you use the oldest WMV7 codec at something like 1-pass, 500 kbps CBR video. I can't see any problem with this video when viewed on the little Zune screen.

Or if the $30 is a pain, you could try AutoMKV and my guide, mentioned earlier in this thread.


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## selfexpressions (Jan 30, 2007)

Thanks! I went ahead and purchased CuCuSoft tonight and now I have a couple of episodes loaded on my Zune for tomorrow. I appreciate it!


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## selfexpressions (Jan 30, 2007)

I've downloaded DirectShow Dump and a trial copy of VideoRedo, but I must be doing something wrong with both of them. I run the .tivo files through DirectShow Dump, but they don't end up any smaller. They turn into movie files that are still approximately 1.3 Gb, and then Cucusoft chokes on them and won't convert to wmv files for the Zune. 

I tried VideoRedo last night, and figured out how to use the AdDetective to cut the commercials, and then I click "Save As" file type MPEG. The resultant file is cut from about an hour down to 45-47 minutes, but it is still a huge file (approximately 1.3 Gb) and that output chokes Cucusoft also. Is there a step I am leaving out with VideoRedo and/or DirectShow Dump that would turn these .tivo files into much smaller files that Cucusoft can convert to .wmv? 

If I can figure out how to get VideoRedo to work properly during the 15 day trial, I might go ahead and buy it so I can cut commercials and convert files faster. Otherwise, I'll just keep doing what I'm doing and let Tivo Desktop Plus do the conversions more slowly and with commercials intact. 

Also, just in case anyone else is considering Tivo Desktop Plus, it does give you the option to save your original file format as well as the smaller file output. Under the Portable Devices tab, you click "Convert to portable device media format: ..... " and there are several options for the format, and then underneath that, there is a checkbox that says "Delete the original transferred files after conversion" . If you don't check this box, you will have your original huge .tivo file in the "My Tivo Recordings" folder and the new, converted smaller file in another folder titled "My Tivo Recordings for Portables".


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Neither DSD or VRD will reduce your file size, other than what you edit out. CuCuSoft should not be "choking" on these files. Try two things to get more clues:
1. Edit out smaller clips of the same videos using VRD and see if CuCuSoft still balks.
2. Run one of the chokers through VRD's Quick Stream Fix and see if that makes a difference.

What codec and bitrate are you selecting in CuCuSoft? Check all the settings for reasonableness. Also contact CuCuSoft support -- this file size should be no problem at all for any decent converter program.


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## selfexpressions (Jan 30, 2007)

I just tried option 2 (Run through Quickstream Fix) and the file is still freezing in Cucusoft. The software runs fine when I take the file that's already been run through the tivo desktop conversion to portable version, but none of the files from VRD will run. 

Here are the settings I'm currently using in Cucusoft: 

Video Code: Windows Media 7
Video Bitrate: 672
Frame Rate: 29.970
Video Size: 320X240 (Zune Recommended)

Audio Code: Windows Media 9 Audio
Audio Bitrate: 96K (near CD quality)
Sample Rate: 44100 (Recommended)
Channels: 2 (Stereo)
Volume: 100%

Advanced Video Options
Aspect Ratio (Auto)
Bit exact algortithms: yes
Mux Video Bitrate: 768
Output format: Windows Media Video WMV

Should I change any of these settings?

Thanks for your help!


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

I'm not enough of an expert to comment on the advanced options but the other ones look OK to me. I would just leave the advanced ones wherever they default to. Have you tried a short clip, to see if that fails too? Do you have mediaInfo or gSpot? The information they provide might be helpful. MediaInfo is easy to install and to use. Gspot is more complicated. Both are free, e.g., at VideoHelp.com/tools.

A general comment: I think the Windows Media Encoder (WME) is not robust with .mpg inputs. I suspect CuCuSoft is using it for the WMV encoding -- not sure. I've had experience with it in other cases and it is finicky about mpeg2's (interlacing, field order, etc.) and will crash on some of them. AutoMKV uses WME for its WMV encoding and I've had problem mpg files where it would fail depending on what you selected in the "Interlace" setting. Presumably CuCuSoft performs an analysis to determine how best to pre-process the video before sending it into WME -- So does AutoMKV. But these algorithms sometimes fail on problem videos. And the same video preprocessed the same way will not cause any problems for other mpeg4 encoders!

If a small file still chokes CuCuSoft you could contact their support and they might have you upload the file to them for analysis.


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## selfexpressions (Jan 30, 2007)

Thanks dlfl. I guess I'll stick with what I'm doing and not worry about getting VRD to work. What I've been doing is working out pretty well and it runs in the background until I run the files through Cucusoft. The tivo desktop is downloading the .tivo files (approximately 1.6 to 2 Gb) and then converting them to MP4 files that are approximately 375Mb and then deleting the larger .tivo file to conserve hard drive space. Then I run the MP4 file through Cucosoft and drop the output file into the Zune. That process seems to be working like a charm. The resultant file still has commercials in it, but the 30 second skip button on the Zune has worked well at jumping over the commercials. 

The Cucusoft has been working wonderfully on the smaller files that result from the automatic Tivo Desktop conversion process. It's just not working on files that have been run through VRD instead. 

Thanks again for your help! I appreciate it!


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