# Veronica Mars 4/25/06 "Look Who's Stalking" *spoliers*



## tem (Oct 6, 2003)

MAN !

I thought it was a great episode. The V/Logan scenes were both exciting and excruciating to watch. I actually got choked up as she got on the elevator. Kristin Bell has *got* to get some sort of Emmy consideration.

Woody is such an ass for selling out Keith. He seems to continually get the shaft.

The mystery seems to be winding up as well. The only thing I hope is that the don't try and pin the whole thing on the crazy janitor, though from the looks of next week's episode, he seems to come more than a bit unhinged.

And can someone clue me in on why the whole incorporation thing is such a bad thing ? I guess I missed too many episodes but it's never quite been clear to me.


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## Neenahboy (Apr 8, 2004)

tem said:


> And can someone clue me in on why the whole incorporation thing is such a bad thing ? I guess I missed too many episodes but it's never quite been clear to me.


IIRC, all the rich socialites are against it because it means that a certain group of "undesirable" people would now be a part of the town. Someone want to verify/discredit this?


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## edc (Mar 24, 2002)

Neenahboy said:


> IIRC, all the rich socialites are against it because it means that a certain group of "undesirable" people would now be a part of the town. Someone want to verify/discredit this?


Other way around. It would wall in the rich area, raise their property values, and drive the "bad element" outside the incorporated area.

To paraphrase Keith: "This isn't a city, its a country club."


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

I don't understand why this show is only on at 1 AM on the West Coast DirecTV feed for me these past few weeks. There isn't any conflict listed in my recording history that forced it to record a re-airing.

And I'm squinting, because I don't want to see any spoilers in this thread...


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## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

Some random thoughts.

I had guessed that Kendall would be with Logan right when Veronica left the party, and I was very sorry to see that come to fruition. She also probably got her STD from Kendall as well. 

It appears that the predictions about Woody are going to come true. 

Is Woody the Mayor, or the Supervisor, or what? The newspaper seems to call him the supervisor, but people refer to him as the mayor, but if Neptune is not incorporated, what would he be the Mayor of?

I'm glad to see Veronica isn't getting her clues to the mystery in dreams anymore, although they didn't really touch on that storyline this ep. much.

Still a very enjoyable episode.


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## mmilton80 (Jul 28, 2005)

I'm guessing meg got chlamydia from Lucky, and gave it to the Dunk


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## GMMR (Feb 24, 2006)

I loved Veronica's exhange with Kendall:



> Kendall: Your dad and I were just dealing with a little trouble
> Veronica: Like trouble, with a capital T that rhymes with C that stands for
> Keith: Veronica!
> Veronica: I was going to say cute


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

kettledrum said:


> Is Woody the Mayor, or the Supervisor, or what? The newspaper seems to call him the supervisor, but people refer to him as the mayor, but if Neptune is not incorporated, what would he be the Mayor of?


It is confusing, no doubt about it. Woody Goodman is the Balboa County Commissioner from Neptune . . . but they explained in an early episode that this position is "historically referred to as Mayor of Neptune."

Neptune is obviously unincorporated (since the vote failed in last night's episode), so it has no municipal government and no mayor. But I guess since the County Commissioner is the only elected official over Neptune, they consider him sort of like a Mayor. Or something.

The geography of Balboa County has always been confusing to me -- is Neptune the only town in the county? That can't possibly be true in densely populated Southern California, one would think, but sometimes it seems as if the Balboa County Sheriff's Department and Sheriff Lamb are only concerned about Neptune and no other town. Does that mean Pan High is also in Neptune, just the less desirable inland part 15 miles away?

Anyway . . . I thought this was a great episode. Kristen Bell and Jason Dohring were both fantastic, as usual, particularly in that final scene.

You know Veronica was really upset at seeing Kendall/Priscilla when she couldn't even bring herself to make a snide comment. I thought she might at least call her Priscilla or something.

And at this point, Veronica still thinks that Kendall might have something to do with the crash, so that makes it worse. I wonder if she is going to tell Logan that Kendall is literally in bed with the Fitzpatricks, the good folks who set him up to take the fall for Felix's murder?

_Trouble? That starts with "T" and that rhymes with "C" and that stands for . . . _


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

It took me a moment to remember that Madison was Lamb's girlfriend, but once I did I liked the bit about "hate to be on the lam", "the cops would be all over you". 

And so now we assume that Aaron Echolls arranged for Cliff the lawyer's briefcase to be stolen. And Veronica knows the Kendall has access to the apartment where Duncan used to live. I wonder how soon the Aaron Echolls to Kendall link will be found, and how that will be used to discredit the planted 'bloody Oscar with Duncan's hair' red herring...


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Who is "Lucky"? She couldn't have gotten it from Logan based on the scenes we saw. My guess is that it was meg's dad, sorry to put out something so gross.

I was really thinking they were going to go the woody pedophile angle, but the guy never said.

Who was the person that bailed him out? I couldn't remember who that was when they mentioned the name.

Next week wallace will be very serious all the time. He can't be any more giddy so it must be that he will be serious.


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

I think it was Meg's (dead, pregnant girl) dad who bailed out the janitor.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

So the baby is woody's and veronica got the STD from woody, which will help her solve the case.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

dtle said:


> I think it was Meg's (dead, pregnant girl) dad who bailed out the janitor.


Yes, it was Stuart Manning, Meg's dad, who bailed out Lucky the janitor.

In the dream episode, we learned that Meg's parents went to church with Lucky and they were trying to set Meg up with him or something like that. So we know that the Mannings know Lucky.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

edc said:


> Other way around. It would wall in the rich area, raise their property values, and drive the "bad element" outside the incorporated area.
> 
> To paraphrase Keith: "This isn't a city, its a country club."


Exactly. They fully expect that the areas in the city would have skyrocketing property values, while those outside would have plummeting property values... the rich get richer, the poor get poorer.

It's the "class warfare" theme of the show again.


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## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

Jonathan_S said:


> It took me a moment to remember that Madison was Lamb's girlfriend, but once I did I liked the bit about "hate to be on the lam", "the cops would be all over you".


I had forgotten about that. (I forget a lot, unfortunately) My wife pointed it out, and I blooped back and watched that again....much more entertaining when you get it!



Jonathan_S said:


> And so now we assume that Aaron Echolls arranged for Cliff the lawyer's briefcase to be stolen.


Did Cliff ever figure out what was so important in that briefcase? I remember it was brought up what was inside but I don't remember anything significant.....help!


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

kettledrum said:


> Did Cliff ever figure out what was so important in that briefcase? I remember it was brought up what was inside but I don't remember anything significant.....help!


Cliff rattled off a bunch of stuff that was in that briefcase (including an _Elle_ magazine, heh), but the important stuff seemed to be documents related to Logan's case. He also said something about a key to a storage locker, iirc. He said "their" storage locker, possibly meaning the Echollses, but it's not really clear nor is it clear what was in the storage locker.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Lots of stuff to absorb still but I can't stop thinking of the genius Tom Cruise line, "Once teenage girls dreamed of marrying Tom Cruise, Now they fear it".


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

And I wonder how me people got the:

Logan: Alone again?
VM: Naturally

reference or if it was an intentional reference to the Gilbert O'Sullivan song.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mwhip said:


> And I wonder how me people got the:
> 
> Logan: Alone again?
> VM: Naturally
> ...


Had to be. That's certainly how I "read" it.

Then again, I'm a helluva lot older than VM...


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

This show really needs to be on HBO or Showtime. I love where he's holding his hands, too.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Man. That Veronica and Logan relationship *is* epic. My heart breaks in just about every scene between the two of them. Those two are some amazing actors.

I thought that Kendall had the STD and gave it to Duncan who gave it to Veronica, assuming that she and Duncan did sleep together that one time where it was implied but never confirmed. I think they were definitely adding more fuel to the Woody is a pedophile fire. I'm not sure where Meg's dad is going to fit in, other than he's obviously got some sort of connection.

Argh! Although not quite as bad as other shows out there, this show does seem to answer questions with more questions. Boy do I love it! These last two episodes are going to be great.

Oh, yes, and Logan without a shirt? YUM


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## Jesda (Feb 12, 2005)

Veronica got an STD? I need to stop browsing the web during this show.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

Jesda said:


> Veronica got an STD? I need to stop browsing the web during this show.


Heh. Did you miss the entire opening scene?

She has chlamydia, even though she's only been with one guy (Duncan) and swears they were totally "safe." That's what prompted her to go ask Logan if he knows if Duncan has been with anyone ("and by with I mean _with_") other than her and Meg. Logan said he only knows about her and Meg, which would confirm that Duncan was never with Kendall, at least to Logan's knowledge anyway.



Zevida said:


> Man. That Veronica and Logan relationship *is* epic. My heart breaks in just about every scene between the two of them. Those two are some amazing actors.


Agreed. That final scene could have easily been an exercise in TV cliches 101, but Kristen Bell and Jason Dohring are both so exquisitely good that they really sold it. Such pain and heartbreak, all revealed on their faces without their having to say a word.



> Oh, yes, and Logan without a shirt? YUM


No arguments here. :up:


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Jesda said:


> Veronica got an STD? I need to stop browsing the web during this show.


Uh...YEAH!

This may require the most intense concentration of any show since Arrested Development.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Oof, I love satellite TV, and will resist going back to cable until the cows come home, but if you only get rain fade once or twice a year, and I only do, inevitably it will come during the last five minutes of one of the most plot-packed shows on TV as the season is winding down. I got all the way to where Lamb unlocked Keith from Lucky, said Lucky had been bailed out, and Keith asked who did it. Cue rain fade! Aaargh. Had to wait two more hours while my computer did its work to see the last few minutes.

This was a brilliant episode. My only complaint was that the final scene with Veronica at Logan's door was fairly predictable. It was obvious that Kendall was going to be in there, but then, Kendall _had_ to be in there. I guess the main thing that bothered me was the use of "no, let me go first", which always means that the other person really should go first, and you know the other shoe is going to drop. Minor quibble, though.

By the way, does any show on TV have better episode titles than this one?


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

*cmontyburns*: I agree with you that the Kendall "reveal" was sort of predicatble (Logan, I love you, but I wanted to smack you), but still . . . even though there were a couple of cliched moments to it, I still loved the scene because of what it represented for V/L and because of the fantastic acting by both KB and JD.

It took everything she had for Veronica to work up the courage to put her emotions out there for Logan, and of course, when she has finally decided to forget about Normal and try for something _epic_ instead, she gets kicked in the gut -- yet again. And otoh, Logan, who's been waiting all year for the tiniest sign that Veronica feels _anything_ for him other than contempt, _finally_ gets what he wants -- but because of his dumb choices, he ends up ruining the whole thing and utterly crushing Veronica.

Good times.


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

I'm confused as to when it was revealed Veronica had chlamydia? I infer she found out when she got her medical checkup for her college apps. I assume anyway. My recording began with Veronica saying 'When life gives you lemons..' Was there anything before this. Am I forgetting something from last episode or another? 

The Kendall/Logan scene was sadly predictable. I hoping there's more there than just Logan getting drunk and hooking up with her again. And since we know Kendall has her own plans I think there's hope. Course, she probably did sleep with him just the same but still. 

Looking like the Mannings and Goodmans have some explaining too do.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

mrpantstm said:


> I'm confused as to when it was revealed Veronica had chlamydia? I infer she found out when she got her medical checkup for her college apps. I assume anyway. My recording began with Veronica saying 'When life gives you lemons..' Was there anything before this. Am I forgetting something from last episode or another?


The very first scene in this episode was Veronica sitting on the exam table in a doctor's office. He tells her she has chlamydia and she says there has to be some mistake.

The next scene is Veronica walking out of class to her locker with the VO about her grandmother's saying about lemons and lemonade.

Perhaps your TiVo clock is a bit off? You must have missed the first 30 seconds or so. (I don't know how that could be, b/c doesn't TiVo get the time from the satellite? I don't know how these things work. But my TiVo picked up VM right at the beginning of "previously on _Veronica Mars_." That's how I know I didn't miss anything b/c there is always a "previously.")


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

thanks. dunno what's off. shrug.

So we assume/know the only person Veronica's been with has been Duncan. And Duncan's been with Veronica and Meg that we know. But we know Meg has a pretty strict family so it's doubtful she has many partners.

hmm a mystery indeed.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Yes, there was more before that scene.

The recap:
Previously on Veronica Mars... 
- Veronica to Deputy Leo: "I can't date you anymore."
- TV announces "Lamb investigates Terrence Cook in connection with the Neptune High Bus Crash..."
- Terrence to Keith: "You'll take my case?"
- Keith to Woody: "Terrence broke into his girlfriend's family home, the journalism teacher who died in the bus crash.."
- Logan to Woody and Keith: "I've got something you should see..."
- Mac to Veronica: "I'm not speaking to you... Butters asked if he should get a room for the prom..."
- Veronica to Kendall: "Move or you're a hood ornament!"

And now...

Scene: Doctor's Office

Veronica: I've got WHAT?
Doctor: Chlamydia. It's a sexual--
Veronica: I know what it is... but there must be a mistake. I don't have... any symptoms... I don't feel anything.
Doctor: Which is not uncommon. Have you been sexually active in the last... year or two?
Veronica: We were... you know, safe... and the guy... there's no way he...
Doctor: You think that, but you never know. Antibiotics will take care of it.

V.M.V.O: So my Grandma Reynolds was always saying, "When life gives you lemons, make lemonade." I wish she was still alive, because I'd like to ask her what she'd suggest when life gives you chlamydia.

...


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Oh, and I know where you guys are coming from... the copy of the episode I got starts right at "When life gives you..." It was recorded from the HD feed. I'm wondering if the HD feed cut off the whole first part. 

The above recap came from my recording of the SD feed (which annoyingly interrupted the episode 15 minutes in for a "Smackdown" commercial. Grr.)


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

And might I add, that the chlamydia thing must have been planned early on, because way back many episodes ago there was a scene when they were talking about STDs in health class, and they specifically discussed chlamydia.

Gia said something about thinking that chlaymdia was growing on her trellis and Veronica said that maybe her trellis was a whore. Heh.

Ms. Hauser: Chlamydia is not a flower, Gia.

I thought that scene was just a standard classroom set-up before Veronica talked to Ms. Hauser, but now it seems like it meant more than that. Per usual on this show.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Magnolia88 said:


> ...I still loved the scene because of what it represented for V/L and because of the fantastic acting by both KB and JD.


Agreed, although I thought the real reason this scene worked, despite the whiff of cliche, was the party scene between Veronica and Logan. KB and JD really carried the mail there. Everything about that scene was a home run, right down to the Mike Doughty song playing behind the (excellent) dialog. Had this scene not been so effective, the later scene at Logan's door wouldn't have packed such a punch.


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## lonwolf615 (May 19, 2004)

Who broke the story on Cook throwing the playoff game? Was that made clear somewheres and I missed it? It was funny how it came out right after he mentioned it to Keith.. 
I've been wondering since we found out last week there was more to Kendall than we thought, just what did happen between her and Duncan. At the time it seemed she was looking for a replacement for BD, but we now know she's more than a simple golddigger..so what really happened between them? Since she's the only other possible sex partner we've been shown for Duncan, I kinda thought it had to be her who gave it to him, and he passed it on to Veronica. And of course VM is gonna find out Kendall's got it..hmm, Logan would have it too, wouldn't he? 
I can't belive it was Meg..a pregnant girl in a coma? Surely the hospital would have found out and told Donut he might be infected. No, right now Kendall is the most likely canadate. 
So we got Woody and Keith about to get down and dirty, while Veronica and Kendall also seem ready to go to war. And we have Lucky, who has something on Woody and has at least a casual connection to Logan, who is connected to Kendell, who is connected to Aaron, Logan's father, whose trial apparently ends next week. And Meg's dad bails out Lucky, further complicating things... 
My head is starting to hurt..


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

cmontyburns said:


> Agreed, although I thought the real reason this scene worked, despite the whiff of cliche, was the party scene between Veronica and Logan. KB and JD really carried the mail there. Everything about that scene was a home run, right down to the Mike Doughty song playing behind the (excellent) dialog. Had this scene not been so effective, the later scene at Logan's door wouldn't have packed such a punch.


I agree with this entirely . . . but my one problem with the alternaprom scene is that Logan seemed so obviously drunk or at least very well on his way. I was surprised that Veronica didn't appear to be aware of that at all, what with him chugging champagne straight from the bottle and looking generally dishevelled and having bloodshot eyes and slurring his words, etc.

Given how perceptive Veronica usually is, it just struck me as off that she didn't call Logan on being drunk. That would have been a way to deflect his comments about their "epic" relationship, and she never said a thing. And when she acted so surprised at seeing him hungover the next morning, that also didn't ring true to me. The first thing I always asked in those situations was "what do you remember from last night?" (But maybe that's my own experience from dating boozy frat guys. Heh.)


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

lonwolf615 said:


> Who broke the story on Cook throwing the playoff game? Was that made clear somewheres and I missed it? It was funny how it came out right after he mentioned it to Keith..


Sheriff Lamb also seemed to have knowledge about this. He used it as leverage against Terrence earlier in the season.


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## lonwolf615 (May 19, 2004)

LoadStar said:


> Sheriff Lamb also seemed to have knowledge about this. He used it as leverage against Terrence earlier in the season.


I had forgotten that. So you think it was just coincidence the story broke now/


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Magnolia88 said:


> ..my one problem with the alternaprom scene is that Logan seemed so obviously drunk or at least very well on his way. I was surprised that Veronica didn't appear to be aware of that at all, what with him chugging champagne straight from the bottle and looking generally dishevelled and having bloodshot eyes and slurring his words, etc. Given how perceptive Veronica usually is, it just struck me as off that she didn't call Logan on being drunk. That would have been a way to deflect his comments about their "epic" relationship, and she never said a thing.


I have to admit this didn't occur to me, and you certainly have a point. However, and at the risk of overanalyzing, the way the conversation progressed pretty much did an end-around on Veronica's usual defenses. She and Logan were well into the discussion before she realized he wasn't talking about Hannah ("Hannah sure did a number on you, didn't she?") and then farther still when it hit her that Logan was actually making a compelling point ("No one writes songs about the easy ones."). Watch her reactions at each of those points. There was no real point in shooting him down to begin with, because she didn't think the talk was directed at her. And by the time she did, she realized he might be right -- and so it was too late.


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## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

mrpantstm said:


> I infer she found out when she got her medical checkup for her college apps.


I was wondering why she was at the doctor in the first place. She did say that she had no symptoms. I guess that's a plausible explanation....but I don't remember having to get a physical to go to college?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I dunno, call me crazy, I go to the doctor for checkups even when I'm healthy.


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

Magnolia88 said:


> I agree with this entirely . . . but my one problem with the alternaprom scene is that Logan seemed so obviously drunk or at least very well on his way.


I think that's what disappointed me the most about this scene. That it began with Logan being drunk and you knew nothing good could come of it.


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

kettledrum said:


> I was wondering why she was at the doctor in the first place. She did say that she had no symptoms. I guess that's a plausible explanation....but I don't remember having to get a physical to go to college?


I remember before going to college, I had to get a medical checkup. I don't think it was required but some information needed to be up to date.

What occured to me is that we are assuming that Veronica got chlamydia from Duncan when they were together. Yes, I realize it's a STD and how else would she get it but it is also possible for Veronica's test results to perhaps have been tampered with?

I have no proof or reasoning for this but I thought I'd throw it out there. Who would want to tamper with her results? Who knows but it wouldn't be something that far fethed for the residents of Neptune.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> I dunno, call me crazy, I go to the doctor for checkups even when I'm healthy.


Also, in case you gentlemen were not aware, women are required to get a full exam before getting a prescription for the pill. That is generally the reason that teenagers go to the doctor for their first ob/gyn exam.

Given her later conversation with Keith about her doctor visit, the implication was that Veronica was just going in for her regular yearly physical exam.


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## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

Again, I guess I'm the weird one. I haven't had a "physical" since needing one for high school sports.


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## tem (Oct 6, 2003)

Was anyone else thrown by the whole chlamydia thing ? I was like "WHAT KIND OF SHOW GIVES THE HEROINE AN STD !!??!!" Only this one, and it's why I love it. Totally fearless writing. 

It's got to lead to something else big, however, otherwise they wouldn't have done it.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

jschuur said:


> I don't understand why this show is only on at 1 AM on the West Coast DirecTV feed for me these past few weeks. There isn't any conflict listed in my recording history that forced it to record a re-airing.
> 
> And I'm squinting, because I don't want to see any spoilers in this thread...


If you look at KCOPs schedule, Veronica Mars has been preempted by sports, which is why it's being shown at 1 AM. One of the largest television markets in the country and it's be shown at 1 AM, at the conclusion of a year-long mystery! No wonder the ratings are so poor. I fear VM won't be renewed, which would be about right for shows that are engaging, intelligent, and require the viewer to turn their brain ON. I *HOPE* is's not going to be cancelled, but with UPN and WB combining, at least half the programming has to go. Sigh... It's clear that VM is not being treated with respect.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

lonwolf615 said:


> ...I've been wondering since we found out last week there was more to Kendall than we thought, just what did happen between her and Duncan. At the time it seemed she was looking for a replacement for BD, but we now know she's more than a simple golddigger..so what really happened between them? Since she's the only other possible sex partner we've been shown for Duncan, I kinda thought it had to be her who gave it to him, and he passed it on to Veronica. And of course VM is gonna find out Kendall's got it..hmm, Logan would have it too, wouldn't he?


Exactly my thinking. Kendall really THREW herself at Duncan when Logan said something to her about how she should go after the REAL millionaire in that apartment. Somehow it will come out that Veronica will HAVE to admit to having chlamydia in order to implicate Kendall, and she WILL admit it.



cmontyburns said:


> ...the way the conversation progressed pretty much did an end-around on Veronica's usual defenses. She and Logan were well into the discussion before she realized he wasn't talking about Hannah ("Hannah sure did a number on you, didn't she?") and then farther still when it hit her that Logan was actually making a compelling point ("No one writes songs about the easy ones."). Watch her reactions at each of those points. There was no real point in shooting him down to begin with, because she didn't think the talk was directed at her. And by the time she did, she realized he might be right -- and so it was too late.


I really have to agree with this. I was thinking that Veronica knows about the effects of alcohol, and that he might just be being honest with her (under the influence) for a change and she wanted to hear what he REALLY thought, and then was taken over by when he said, but I think your analysis, the misdirection to Hannah, was a better one.

Both this scene and the one at Logan's door played remarkably well.

In two weeks we'll probably finally know Kendall's agenda.

I wonder what Cassidy's plan is? We haven't seen him for a while. Is his investment scheme doing well, especially since the incorporation has failed. Was Cassidy somehow responsible for its failure in order to protect his investments? He looked very concerned when the teacher brought up the effects of incorporation on real estate values.

Do the writers even keep track of all the loose ends on this show?


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

Church AV Guy said:


> I wonder what Cassidy's plan is? We haven't seen him for a while. Is his investment scheme doing well, especially since the incorporation has failed.


Without going into any detail . . .



Spoiler



Cassidy will be back in the final two episodes. I believe most of those questions will be answered.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Church AV Guy said:


> If you look at KCOPs schedule, Veronica Mars has been preempted by sports, which is why it's being shown at 1 AM. One of the largest television markets in the country and it's be shown at 1 AM, at the conclusion of a year-long mystery! No wonder the ratings are so poor. I fear VM won't be renewed, which would be about right for shows that are engaging, intelligent, and require the viewer to turn their brain ON. I *HOPE* is's not going to be cancelled, but with UPN and WB combining, at least half the programming has to go. Sigh... It's clear that VM is not being treated with respect.


This is happening due to baseball in New York, as well. It's unfortunate, but then we have to assume that UPN understands the situation. It probably doesn't have _any_ shows that would outdraw local sports in those markets, so it's no wonder the affiliates are pulling the switcheroo. I'm therefore not worried about the effects of these pre-emptions on VM's renewal odds. UPN already knows how it performs when it does air, and they will make their decision based on that information and on whatever value they put on having one of television's most-praised shows on their roster.

On that note, there's a good essay by Nikki Finke in LA Weekly (be advised that the opening paragraph or two are mildly blue) on the formation of The CW. Apparently CBS/Viacom honcho Les Moonves is pretty much pulling all the strings, and so UPN properties (which are under the CBS/Viacom umbrella) are getting first priority in scheduling the new net. That can only be good news for VM. There's nothing surprising here from what has been speculated previously, but Finke reports:



> According to my info, only The WBs Gilmore Girls, Smallville and Supernatural are locks. UPN adds Americas Next Top Model, Everybody Hates Chris, Girlfriends, Friday Night Smackdown! and also probably Veronica Mars. Yes, the teen sleuth show has dreadful ratings, but it was Dawn Ostroffs baby back at UPN and, as The CWs new entertainment prez, shes still emotionally tied to the so-so albeit critically praised.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

Thanks! You make me feel a little better about VMs renewal chances. I agree, the baseball games will pull in better ratings than programming, so I would hope the decision would be based on other criteria. I know VMs ratings are bad, but I don't care how many people are or are not watching it, it is at the top of my season passes, and *I* want another season. Critical praise has proven to be of little consequence if the ratings are poor, so I hope other forces give the show one more season. Maybe the DVD sales of season one will help too, if they are note worthy. These days, people watching television don't want to have to THINK, just watch. VM is different.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

cmontyburns said:


> ...there's a good essay by Nikki Finke in LA Weekly (be advised that the opening paragraph or two are mildly blue) on the formation of The CW. Apparently CBS/Viacom honcho Les Moonves is pretty much pulling all the strings, and so UPN properties (which are under the CBS/Viacom umbrella) are getting first priority in scheduling the new net...


In the article it says that the CW network will have only thirteen hours of prime-time programming. Thirteen? Um, with two times seven being fourteen, that is less than two hours per night. Surely they could have done better, (more) than that! It's absurd to think that they can combine two mini networks and only have thirteen hours left.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Church AV Guy said:


> In the article it says that the CW network will have only thirteen hours of prime-time programming. Thirteen? Um, with two times seven being fourteen, that is less than two hours per night. Surely they could have done better, (more) than that! It's absurd to think that they can combine two mini networks and only have thirteen hours left.


These stations thrive on their 10pm/9pm Central/Mountain newscasts and won't give them up.

There actually are more than 14 hours available -- there's the weekend Kids block in the morning that's part of CW, too... I think about 5 hours on Saturday morning; 7am - 12noon ET.

The stations also tend to really value their syndication block an hour prior to prime time, so that's probably not readily taken by a network. It might be nice to see some late-night network fare, but there's except for DVR owners, it's probably not possible to draw much in the way of ratings to warrant first-run programming for it.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

The CW will not have any prime-time network programming on Saturday night (like UPN and the WB currently). The CW will program M-F 8-10 ET and Sunday 7-10 ET. That is a total of 13 hours of prime-time programming.

As dswallow said, there will also be kids programming on Saturday morning but that really isn't relevant for the purpose of determining the prime-time lineup. Unfortunately, _Veronica Mars_ isn't really a Saturday morning kind of show.  So it has to "compete" for one of those spots in the 13 hours during prime-time. And since Friday night is reserved for _Friday Night Smackdown!_ I'm guessing, so that leaves 11 hours for everything else.


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## Rosenkavalier (Nov 9, 2001)

Church AV Guy said:


> In two weeks we'll probably finally know Kendall's agenda.
> 
> I wonder what Cassidy's plan is? We haven't seen him for a while. Is his investment scheme doing well, especially since the incorporation has failed. Was Cassidy somehow responsible for its failure in order to protect his investments? He looked very concerned when the teacher brought up the effects of incorporation on real estate values.


This was the first thing I thought of when the vote failed. The real question is: did he base his investments on the vote succeeding, or on it failing? And, the kicker: as Kendall kept reminding him, her name is on all of the paperwork...that has got to be part of the end-game.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Rosenkavalier said:


> This was the first thing I thought of when the vote failed. The real question is: did he base his investments on the vote succeeding, or on it failing? And, the kicker: as Kendall kept reminding him, her name is on all of the paperwork...that has got to be part of the end-game.


Could the fact that Kendall Casablancas is NOT her real name have something to do with this?


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

It's possible, but I doubt Cassidy knows that her name isn't really Kendall.


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## lonwolf615 (May 19, 2004)

Could explain why she didn't mind signing everything though. 
I had almost forgotten about that. Yet another character/scam Kendall is involved with...the girl gets around. I have to admit I don't have a clue how they are going to tie it all together.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

Church AV Guy said:


> It's possible, but I doubt Cassidy knows that her name isn't really Kendall.


At this point, I wouldn't put anything past either of those two.

Both Kendall/Priscilla and Cassidy/Beaver are shaping up to be two of the shadiest and most mysterious characters on the show. I don't know what they know or don't know at this point and nothing would shock me about what they are up to.

I'm convinced that one of them is playing the other, but right now I'm not sure who is playing whom.

I still want to know who the hell Sally is. That one cryptic comment told us that Beaver has all sorts of things up his sleeve that we may not know about.


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## lonwolf615 (May 19, 2004)

Magnolia88 said:


> still want to know who the hell Sally is. That one cryptic comment told us that Beaver has all sorts of things up his sleeve that we may not know about.


I'm drawing a blank. What cryptic comment was that?


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

At the end of the carnival episode, when Dick is about to punch Beaver's lights out for hiring the tranny . . . Dick has Beaver pinned against a car and Beaver says with sort of a menacing tone, "Remember Sally?"

And that comment causes Dick to let Beaver go. As far as I know, a character names Sally has never been introduced on the show. So it's yet one more unanswered question that needs to be resolved in the next two episodes. TWO!!


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## Kevdog (Apr 18, 2001)

Does anyone remember Kendall putting something on the floor in Duncan's shower a few episodes back? Did they ever reveal what the substance was? Not suggesting you can get an STD through your feet, but that was mighty odd...


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Kevdog said:


> Does anyone remember Kendall putting something on the floor in Duncan's shower a few episodes back? Did they ever reveal what the substance was? Not suggesting you can get an STD through your feet, but that was mighty odd...


Not putting something on the floor. Taking something off the floor. Specifically, she was rooting around in Duncan's drain. They didn't show it, but it was easily inferred that she took some of his hair out of the drain.

Of course, this then led to the discovery of the Oscar statuette with Lily's blood and Duncan's hair on it.


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## Kevdog (Apr 18, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> Not putting something on the floor. Taking something off the floor. Specifically, she was rooting around in Duncan's drain. They didn't show it, but it was easily inferred that she took some of his hair out of the drain.
> 
> Of course, this then led to the discovery of the Oscar statuette with Lily's blood and Duncan's hair on it.


See, that's why I hang out on this board...


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

This show has reached mind boggling complexity. They're lining up clue after clue and it's all going to come undone during sweeps.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Is there really only 2 episodes left this year? What are they, 5 hours each? How can they possibly tie up everything neatly in 2 hours. If they can pull it off, they really are as good as it gets.

-smak-


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

I KNOW!!! [/monicagellar]

I don't know how the heck they are going to wrap things up in just two episodes, but if anyone can do it, it's the VM writers.

Last year I watched the VM season finale and then the two-hour _Lost_ season finale and concluded that VM packed two hours worth of plot into one hour and _Lost_ draaaagged out about thirty minutes of plot over two hours. (It felt like Hurley running through the airport lasted about 20 mins.)

If VM had any kind of decent ratings, maybe they would get a big two-hour season finale, but that's not going to happen anytime soon. So they will be making the most of these next two episodes, I imagine.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Magnolia88 said:


> AI'm convinced that one of them is playing the other, but right now I'm not sure who is playing whom.


It's pretty clear each one thinks he/she is playing the other one. The question is, as you say, who's got the better hand in the end?


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

So what do you think? 

The we don't care if we're being renewed cliffhanger?

Or the neat package that ends all speculation and ties everything into a nice bow?

-smak-


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

If I were a betting man, I would bet that many of the dangling clues are pre-placed for next year.

Yes, there are only two episodes left, and one of them, the next one, will be mostly dedicated to the testimonies of various people at Aaron's trial. I'm sure he is being charged with the murder of Lilly, the attempted murder of Veronica, and Keith, arson, and some other lesser things, like littering. 

The little episode blurb for the season finale only says: (I should not have to spoilerize this because it should be really obvious to everyone what this season was really about, but...)


Spoiler



Veronica figures out who caused the bus crash.


Which really says nothing at all. There is just no way that they are going to wrap this all up in two episodes.

I really liked the tiny scene where Veronica takes the drink from Gia after Madison had given it to her, saying "You don't want this, REALLY!" I can remember from the season finale last year what Madison did to Veronica's drink.


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## lonwolf615 (May 19, 2004)

Random thoughts. 
I've been wondering about Beav for a long time. First, he "accidentally" started the ball rolling to get his father to flee. Then, when his mother talked about staying with them, it was his gushing about how great it would be being with her ALL the time that led her to having second thoughts. Then, once he's eliminated any supervision he starts whatever he's doing with Kendall. .. I thought it was kinda far fetched until Magnolia posted she has her doubts too. Now I'm wondering... 
I'm also wondering if there are two seperate mysteries going on that may overlap some but have different solutions. Kendall and Woody are both guilty as heck of something, but are they both involved in the bus crash? And all the stuff that seems to lead back to Aaron-is that connected, or a seperate storyline? I wonder about Meg's parents too-there's something sinister about them bailing Lucky out... 
Again, why was Veronica's name on Curly's hand? All the obvious reasons seem to have been eliminated-what is the connection?


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

tem said:


> I was like "WHAT KIND OF SHOW GIVES THE HEROINE AN STD !!??!!"


Um...the same one that has her losing her virginity via "rape"?


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

Amnesia said:


> Um...the same one that has her losing her virginity via "rape"?


Ok, I just thought some more about this. Last season, they got everybody squirming with speculation that she and Duncan were half-siblings and they had done it, rape or not. Of course, they are not siblings and in the moment, it wasn't rape from his perspective.

So now, this season, they are making everyone squirm with the thought that Woody Goodman might be a child molester and that it is related to the bus crash. Of course, it won't be.


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## dexthageek (Apr 25, 2005)

I missed veronia mars last week and this week because my crappy local UPN station is playing FREAKING BASKETBALL Of course the show is going to end up with lower ratings when its station doesnt even SHOW IT...yea im more then alittle annoyed, I have been following it all year long and now at the end when everything is going to come together I cant watch it. Poor tivo thinks its VM but instead its boring basketball....


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

dexthageek said:


> I missed veronia mars last week and this week because my crappy local UPN station is playing FREAKING BASKETBALL Of course the show is going to end up with lower ratings when its station doesnt even SHOW IT...yea im more then alittle annoyed, I have been following it all year long and now at the end when everything is going to come together I cant watch it. Poor tivo thinks its VM but instead its boring basketball....


1) UPN typically repeats Veronica Mars on Saturday afternoon/evening.

2) Do a title search - usually when stations pre-empt VM, they usually put it some other time of the week in addition to the regularly scheduled UPN repeat on Saturday afternoon/evening.

3) All else fails - there's always grabbing the episode off the internet.


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