# No Cable Cards Tivo Roamio with Cable



## shfawaz

Im using a a $199 tivo roamio with my wowway digital cable service without any issues and without installing a cable card. Since I have digital basic i get all 99 SD channels and the 10 local HD national network channels. Although initially it complains that a cable card is necessary to tune in most of the channels, a channel scan pretty much fixes that. I use the same setup with a Tivo Premiere XL-again no cable card and all works well as it does with three other Series 3 HD Tivos. 

Im thinking about going to the plus for six tuners and streaming and wonder if anyone else has been successful in doing a similar setup with a Roamio and if it will work since it differs by the fact that it doesn't have a OTA tuner (even though my cable is in fact plugged into the cable input). 

I remember once trying series 4 that no matter what i did, without a cable card, i couldn't get it to work without a cable card installed. I gambled and tried the Roamio and it worked, I'm hoping a plus will work just the same.


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## jrtroo

Let us know if your season passes work. Tuning into a channel is different than using the tivo functionality.


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## shfawaz

Season passes and tivo guide work perfect with no problems. Ive used this method for a few years now with older tivos and so far working fine with Roamio.


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## consumedsoul

shfawaz said:


> Im using a a $199 tivo roamio with my wowway digital cable service without any issues and without installing a cable card. Since I have digital basic i get all 99 SD channels and the 10 local HD national network channels. Although initially it complains that a cable card is necessary to tune in most of the channels, a channel scan pretty much fixes that. I use the same setup with a Tivo Premiere XL-again no cable card and all works well as it does with three other Series 3 HD Tivos.
> 
> Im thinking about going to the plus for six tuners and streaming and wonder if anyone else has been successful in doing a similar setup with a Roamio and if it will work since it differs by the fact that it doesn't have a OTA tuner (even though my cable is in fact plugged into the cable input).
> 
> I remember once trying series 4 that no matter what i did, without a cable card, i couldn't get it to work without a cable card installed. I gambled and tried the Roamio and it worked, I'm hoping a plus will work just the same.


I think only the basic has the coax connection, so the Plus would need a cable card.


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## speedy2

I was always under the impression that you needed a cable card for digital channels from a cable company to get the proper lineup for scheduling recordings. Is that not still the case?


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## nyjklein

I'm pretty sure if your Roamio Basic works with your cable attached to the cable port, then the Roamio Plus/Pro should as well without a CableCard. The CableCard is used for two functions, decrypting encrypted channels and mapping sometimes esoteric cable channel numbers to real life channel numbers. Obviously, you don't need the decryption since you're getting all the channels you want on the Basic without the card. It seems you don't need the mapping function either since your cable company seems to provide those basic channels on their real life channel numbers or else the TiVo Basic's guide and season pass functionality wouldn't work right.

Jeff


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## Grakthis

consumedsoul said:


> I think only the basic has the coax connection, so the Plus would need a cable card.


What?

If there is no co-ax connection on the Plus, how would you possibly hook up the cable? Does it just teleport from the wall in to the cable card? I am pretty sure you're confused about something here.


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## Arcady

There is a coax connection on the TiVo box. There are no coax connectors on CableCARDs.


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## gigaguy

""There is a coax connection on the TiVo box""
Wha? how can that be, no coaxial to access the cable tv signals?


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## TC25D

consumedsoul said:


> I think only the basic has the coax connection, so the Plus would need a cable card.


You might be confusing the fact the Roamio Basic supports Over The Air (OTA), while the Plus and Pro do not. All Roamios have a coax connector on the back.


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## consumedsoul

TC25D said:


> You might be confusing the fact the Roamio Basic supports Over The Air (OTA), while the Plus and Pro do not. All Roamios have a coax connector on the back.


Duh, I was confused, sorry for the misinformation!


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## shfawaz

Thanks for all the resposes. I think i will try the plus and see if that allows me to setup without a cable card. I wonder if the six tuner problem some are having will be also be an issue where tuners five and six are not working for some. I guess maybe since no cable card is involved, that should be a moot issue? Next stop Best Buy for a plus . Will report my findings.


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## Icarus

Interested to see if it works with the plus or pro.

The cable cards provide decryption services, they allow the box to see the decrypted digital cable channel if it's authorized to do so.

I can see 74 channels here on an S2DT and an S3 with just the raw cable. I think they are just analog channels, and roamio basic does analog channels. Plus and pro do not. (at least that's what I read here.)

Keep us posted.

-David


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## HarperVision

Icarus said:


> Interested to see if it works with the plus or pro.
> 
> The cable cards provide decryption services, they allow the box to see the decrypted digital cable channel if it's authorized to do so.
> 
> I can see 74 channels here on an S2DT and an S3 with just the raw cable. I think they are just analog channels, and roamio basic does analog channels. Plus and pro do not. (at least that's what I read here.)
> 
> Keep us posted.
> 
> -David


No Roamio model will do analog channels. I think you're confusing that with OTA channels that the base model can do that the plus/pro can't, but they're still all digital.


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## Icarus

HarperVision said:


> No Roamio model will do analog channels. I think you're confusing that with OTA channels that the base model can do that the plus/pro can't, but they're still all digital.


yeah, maybe. So you think the OP's cable co is transmitting channels 1 - 99 digitally but unencrypted?

-David


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## HarperVision

The analog channels are probably simulcast in digital further down the lineup and the Cablecard is being told to remap them to those channels.


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## Icarus

HarperVision said:


> The analog channels are probably simulcast in digital further down the lineup and the Cablecard is being told to remap them to those channels.


There's no cablecards in this scenario.

-David


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## HarperVision

Maybe the TiVo is remapping it? I know my channels are coming in that I know are supposed to be analog , by remapping to the digital version here.


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## Icarus

HarperVision said:


> Maybe the TiVo is remapping it? I know my channels are coming in that I know are supposed to be analog , by remapping to the digital version here.


without the cable card on a roamio plus or pro? so what channels do you tune to for KHNL as an example?

On Maui, I'm using the Kahului digital lineup -

On my S3 with cablecards, and my roamio pro, I get KHNL on channels 8, 88 and 1008. 1008 is KHNL-HD, 88 is digital, and I thought channel 8 is the analog version. At least on the S3 when digital channels were down, you could often still get the feed on channel 8.

On the S3 with no cablecards and S2DT with no other box (just fed by raw cable), it's channel 8 only.

ETA: lol, there's a show about Dave Shoji on KHNL now. Pure Hawaii.

-David


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## HarperVision

Mine's a pro with a cable card. I have the same channels here on The Big Island. It's just that when I tune to channel 8 on the pro, which I know is digital only, I get the channel. So even though that's normally an analog channel, it senses when that isn't available, finds the digital simulcast, and remaps to the digital version, which is channel 88.


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## apw2607

If you don't have a cablecard and use digital cable (or even the clear qam channels) you'll get no channel mapping from real channels to virtual ones used by the cable company and channel gudie. This means the guide data will be next to useless. This is for all tivo roamio s. doesn't matter if its 4 tuners or 6. You'll just get a bunch of useless qam channel numbers in the guide with "no info".


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## HarperVision

Yep


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## mattack

apw2607 said:


> If you don't have a cablecard and use digital cable (or even the clear qam channels) you'll get no channel mapping from real channels to virtual ones used by the cable company and channel gudie. This means the guide data will be next to useless. This is for all tivo roamio s.


It *sounds* like his cable company might be providing all of the PSIP data properly so it is "just working" without a cable card. (Years ago, there was some guy who I think still posts here, who also had a Tivo working without cable card..)

But they're intended to be used with cable card, and it might just stop working at some point, might not notice networks changing which frequency they're using, etc.. which would cause you to miss recordings.

So basically, try it out, but it's really only supposed to work with a cable card.. (unfortunately -- read the old thread about QAM remapping in the S3 forum.)


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## holycrap

I've tried a Roamio Pro and an XL4 in NYC on Fios without a cable card. I get nothing but a black screen.


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## moedaman

nyjklein said:


> It seems you don't need the mapping function either since your cable company seems to provide those basic channels on their real life channel numbers or else the TiVo Basic's guide and season pass functionality wouldn't work right.
> 
> Jeff


I subscribe to WOW! cable and they do a great job with clear QAM signals. Both of my tv's with clear QAM tuners tune in the 90+ digital basic channels with the guide channel numbers and not the crazy clear QAM channel numbers. But I am using a cable card with my Tivo. I really don't like to watch sd if I can help it.

And shfawaz, don't you have any hdtv's? WOW! only charges $3.50 more for the cable card, and there are 59 hd channels in that package.


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## HarperVision

holycrap said:


> I've tried a Roamio Pro and an XL4 in NYC on Fios without a cable card. I get nothing but a black screen.


I had that with a ton of channels here on TWC after pairing the card. i also noticed when i went into the cablecard and TA screens to "Test Channels" it said i didnt have any digital channels...huh?!?!?! i also looked at the dvr diagnostics screen and it was listing every channel as "analog".....double huh?!?!?! so what I did was do a channel scan first from the channel menu, then when that was done I went back and did a "Repeat Guided Setup" routine. When it came back online it was like a got a new machine or something!!! The channels changes were FAST, even SDV ones, and best of all, no more black screens or cannot tune this channel messages on SDV!!! I just hope it lasts. :-/


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## shfawaz

moedaman said:


> I subscribe to WOW! cable and they do a great job with clear QAM signals. Both of my tv's with clear QAM tuners tune in the 90+ digital basic channels with the guide channel numbers and not the crazy clear QAM channel numbers. But I am using a cable card with my Tivo. I really don't like to watch sd if I can help it.
> 
> And shfawaz, don't you have any hdtv's? WOW! only charges $3.50 more for the cable card, and there are 59 hd channels in that package.


All my TV's are HDTV flat panels. I completely understand the charges from WOW. But as it stands, I have five TiVo HD series 3, each requires TWO cable cards to use the dual tuners. That's 10 cable cards or $35.00 a month. For me owning my own DVR shouldn't cost me $7.00 in additional cable fees per box. I'd sooner stick with OTA only and keep $400 in my pocket before I pay that amount. Besides, 90% of what I record come from the networks that do come in HD without a cable card. I can tolerate 22 minutes of John Stewart in SD, which is the only cable show I record. All my network show record just fine as it stands now and I fully use the TiVo guide for my season passes and have not had a single miss.

I picked my Roamio Plus today and should be able to answer my own question before the weekend is over. Stay tuned.


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## unitron

shfawaz said:


> All my TV's are HDTV flat panels. I completely understand the charges from WOW. But as it stands, I have five TiVo HD series 3, each requires TWO cable cards to use the dual tuners. That's 10 cable cards or $35.00 a month. For me owning my own DVR shouldn't cost me $7.00 in additional cable fees per box. I'd sooner stick with OTA only and keep $400 in my pocket before I pay that amount. Besides, 90% of what I record come from the networks that do come in HD without a cable card. I can tolerate 22 minutes of John Stewart in SD, which is the only cable show I record. All my network show record just fine as it stands now and I fully use the TiVo guide for my season passes and have not had a single miss.
> 
> I picked my Roamio Plus today and should be able to answer my own question before the weekend is over. Stay tuned.


Do you mean that you have 5 TCD648250 models, or 5 TCD652160 models, each using 2 S cards instead of one M card?


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## unitron

Icarus said:


> Interested to see if it works with the plus or pro.
> 
> The cable cards provide decryption services, they allow the box to see the decrypted digital cable channel if it's authorized to do so.
> 
> I can see 74 channels here on an S2DT and an S3 with just the raw cable. I think they are just analog channels, and roamio basic does analog channels. Plus and pro do not. (at least that's what I read here.)
> 
> Keep us posted.
> 
> -David


What you see on the S2DT are analog cable, 'cause that's all that model does.

As for the S3, I don't know if it's remapping or tuning the analogs as well.

My S3s tune the analog channels 'cause without cable cards that's all I'm going to get from TWC.


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## shfawaz

unitron said:


> Do you mean that you have 5 TCD648250 models, or 5 TCD652160 models, each using 2 S cards instead of one M card?


These are the OLED Series 3 HD Tivos. It doesn't matter if you use single or Multi-stream cards, it still requires a card for each tuner. These boxes all have upgraded drives and lifetime TIVO subscriptions.


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## drugrep

TC25D said:


> You might be confusing the fact the Roamio Basic supports Over The Air (OTA), while the Plus and Pro do not. All Roamios have a coax connector on the back.


It's no big deal to me, but why in the world did they take away that feature on Plus and Pro?


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## shfawaz

Well good news. I finally jettisoned my Tivo Roamio, installed the Roamio Plus, sans the cable card, and all is working great. Guide is accurate and season passes all record perfectly. Now it's time to replace the HDD to 3Tb. All six tuners are all working. I'm a happy camper.


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## shfawaz

3Tb WD installed and all six tuners recording six HD channels simultaneously. Couldn't be happier. Gonna wait a few weeks then order the lifetime on this box. Anyone know of any deals on the lifetime lower than the $399 MSD price?


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## gols15

Hello, shfawaz,

I hope all is well. I noticed you were able to get your Roamio Plus to work with basic digital cable. Do you have a cable box or just the regular coax cable into the back of the Tivo Roamio box? Are you able to record on all tuners? I am in Canada and none of our cable providers use cable cards. I would love to get a Roamio Plus to work with my cable provider.

Thanks in advance for your response.



shfawaz said:


> Well good news. I finally jettisoned my Tivo Roamio, installed the Roamio Plus, sans the cable card, and all is working great. Guide is accurate and season passes all record perfectly. Now it's time to replace the HDD to 3Tb. All six tuners are all working. I'm a happy camper.


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## shfawaz

Yes, I was able to record on all four tuners without a cable box. The cable was plugged directly into the Roamio. I had to manually scan the channels because it would not tune digital channels without a cablecard, but once the did a channel scan, all the channels I subscribe to are there. I have digital basic, no premium channels, and the only HD channels I get are the locals with their respective national networks (ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox).


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## gols15

Hello,

Thanks for your response. So once you performed a manual scan the channels worked properly? Did the season pass feature work properly? My concern was when I scan channels here in Canada the channel names and data would not be accurate.



shfawaz said:


> Yes, I was able to record on all four tuners without a cable box. The cable was plugged directly into the Roamio. I had to manually scan the channels because it would not tune digital channels without a cablecard, but once the did a channel scan, all the channels I subscribe to are there. I have digital basic, no premium channels, and the only HD channels I get are the locals with their respective national networks (ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox).


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## shfawaz

Yes, I did after I went through the initial setup, changing channels would only bring a message that said a cablecard was needed to tune a a particular channel. It actually was on all 100 channels. Once I did a channel scan and added them to the mix, they all worked. Season passes record flawlessly on all six tuners. Channel banners match the programs. Keep in mind not all cable companies have a system where you can bypass having a box. My brother had tried this on his cable system in TN (I think it was comcast) with his premiere and he couldn't get it to work without a cable card. I have 4 Tivo HD's, and a Premiere, and the same trick works on all. It's an extra pain to setup, but once it's setup, it works perfectly. Occasionally my cable company (WOWWay) will realign the channels and I have to rescan because I lose a channel or two, but it's not big deal.


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## HarperVision

I think from what I've read that you can also buy a Cablecard on eBay that's compatible with your system and then it should work for basic in the clear qam channels without having to rescan.


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## rainwater

HarperVision said:


> I think from what I've read that you can also buy a Cablecard on eBay that's compatible with your system and then it should work for basic in the clear qam channels without having to rescan.


That would only work if that card is activated on your cable headend. 99% of cable companies will not work with a cablecard that is not in their system. Their are a few small companies that will let customers bring their own card but no major cable company.


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## HarperVision

rainwater said:


> That would only work if that card is activated on your cable headend. 99% of cable companies will not work with a cablecard that is not in their system. Their are a few small companies that will let customers bring their own card but no major cable company.


Not true for just basic channels that are broadcast in clear QAM on their cable system. All you have to do is make sure you're using the same one that they use for your area (Motorola, Cisco/SA, etc.). There are numerous reports of this working. You just can't have any premium and pay type channels authorized with it because as you say, it would née to be provisioned on their system, which most won't do. That is what you're referring to, not what I suggested. This gives the proper channel mapping for the guide, etc.


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## rainwater

HarperVision said:


> Not true for just basic channels that are broadcast in clear QAM on their cable system.


Like I said, unless it is activated it will not give you even the basic channels for most systems. I know for sure this will not work for Charter in all-digital areas as they encrypt all channels now. Pairing will not be possible like I said which would give you premiums. But the chances of it working for basic cable are pretty slim unless it was previously activated on the same cable system.


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## HarperVision

rainwater said:


> That would only work if that card is activated on your cable headend....


No, you said the above and used the word *"only"*, which makes your statement not true.


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## Jruckel

shfawaz said:


> Yes, I did after I went through the initial setup, changing channels would only bring a message that said a cablecard was needed to tune a a particular channel. It actually was on all 100 channels. Once I did a channel scan and added them to the mix, they all worked. Season passes record flawlessly on all six tuners. Channel banners match the programs. Keep in mind not all cable companies have a system where you can bypass having a box. My brother had tried this on his cable system in TN (I think it was comcast) with his premiere and he couldn't get it to work without a cable card. I have 4 Tivo HD's, and a Premiere, and the same trick works on all. It's an extra pain to setup, but once it's setup, it works perfectly. Occasionally my cable company (WOWWay) will realign the channels and I have to rescan because I lose a channel or two, but it's not big deal.


I actually have wow way myself. Could you tell me the steps you used...... I'd love to use the guide. 😊 thank you.


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## shfawaz

Jruckel said:


> I actually have wow way myself. Could you tell me the steps you used...... I'd love to use the guide. 😊 thank you.


Actually, you setup your Tivo as if you are going to have cable cards. Tivo gives you the option to choose "I'll add cable cards later" in one of the steps. Once you go through the entire setup, channels will display a message telling you a cablecard is required to tune this channel. Simply go to the settings, channels, delete scanned channels, then rescan all channels, add them once the process is complete, and if all goes well (and most importantly) your WowWay system is like ours in Canton, MI (this worked in Dearborn, MI with WowWay there as well), your digital basic channels 1-199 and local HD channels should now come in as if you had a cable card installed. You may want to first try to rescan channels if you've already gone through the setup, but unless you chose "I will install cable cards later" you're gonna have to go through the dreaded guided setup.


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## tarheelblue32

shfawaz said:


> Although initially it complains that a cable card is necessary to tune in most of the channels, a channel scan pretty much fixes that.


I think that's your problem right there with doing this on a Plus or Pro. Because the basic Roamio is designed to work with OTA digital channels, it will allow you to do a channel scan and it is apparently finding other digital channels your cable company is sending through in the clear during this scan. However, since the Plus and Pro are only designed to work with a CableCard, I don't think there is any way for them to run a channel scan to find unencrypted channels.


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## shfawaz

Actually I am using a Roamio Plus and it works perfectly. I had the Roamio basic and it worked on that too, and currently works on a Tivo Premier and the First Gen High Def Tivos. Works like a charm on all of them, sans any cable cards.


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## Jruckel

Fantastic! What I didn't do was delete scanned channels.... Do it now & rescanning! Here's hoping we are in mid michigan. Fingers officially crossed.


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## Jruckel

Nope doesn't work in mid-Michigan.  bummer but thanks for the directions.


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## twhiting9275

speedy2 said:


> I was always under the impression that you needed a cable card for digital channels from a cable company to get the proper lineup for scheduling recordings. Is that not still the case?


Only if you're looking at HD channels, or your cable company has gone 'all digital'.


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## Nola111

Hi Shfawaz - I hope you're still hanging around here. I bought a Roamio Basic - I have basic cable through Cox with no cable boxes - I can plug the cable directly from the wall into the TV coax connector and my basic channels all tune in with no issue. But I've connected the coax cable to the Roamio with no cable card installed, and I'm stuck with the message about needing a Cablecard installed, on all channels. Per your posts, I've done the manual channel scan (twice now) and still no luck.

Interestingly, the scan says it finds 400+ channels? Not sure how. Any ideas on what/if I'm doing something wrong here? Is is possible that my tv can tune my QAM cable channels without any kind of box but that the Tivo still would need a Cablecard? 

I don't know the technicals behind the protocol/standard that Cox broadcasts it QAM channels, so I'm hoping anyone here with some insight could help.

Thanks!


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## Nola111

As a follow-up to my above post, does anyone know how I can tell whether the signal coming out of my wall is analog or digital? If it's analog, then that's obviously my problem. I tried calling Cox to ask them but the person I spoke to was completely clueless.


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## rainwater

Nola111 said:


> As a follow-up to my above post, does anyone know how I can tell whether the signal coming out of my wall is analog or digital? If it's analog, then that's obviously my problem. I tried calling Cox to ask them but the person I spoke to was completely clueless.


Plug the coax into your tv and do a channel scan. The digital stations will be in the form of 4.1 (or 4-1) and the analog stations will in the form of just 4, 5, etc.


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## Nola111

rainwater said:


> Plug the coax into your tv and do a channel scan. The digital stations will be in the form of 4.1 (or 4-1) and the analog stations will in the form of just 4, 5, etc.


Thanks Rainwater, I'll give that a shot.


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## Nola111

Ok, so I definitely have analog basic cable. So the Roamio won't work for me.

Next question: is analog cable still considered "ClearQAM" or does it HAVE to be digital for it to be ClearQAM? If so, what is the protocol called for analog basic cable? I just want to make sure I know exactly what I'm looking for when exploring my hardware options (which may or may not include a different model TiVo).

Thanks.


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## Nola111

I think I found my answer to my above question - NTSC. Someone please check me if I'm wrong there. Thanks.


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## rainwater

Nola111 said:


> Ok, so I definitely have analog basic cable. So the Roamio won't work for me.


Are you sure? Just because you get analog channels doesn't mean your cable company doesn't provide them in digital as well. Before my cable company went all digital, it simulcast all channels in digital so there were no missing channels on my Roamio.


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## Nola111

rainwater said:


> Are you sure? Just because you get analog channels doesn't mean your cable company doesn't provide them in digital as well. Before my cable company went all digital, it simulcast all channels in digital so there were no missing channels on my Roamio.


When I do a cable channel scan on my tv (a 2013 Samsung) with the line connected directly to the coax jack on the tv, it brings back about 75 channels with normal numbers (4, 5, 10, etc) and no more than 10 channels with .1 channel numbers. I assumed that meant that they're only simulcasting those 10 channels in digital. Is that right?


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## Nola111

This might also shed a little light:

http://ww2.cox.com/wcm/en/residential/datasheet/neworleans/1090105_NOLA.pdf

I have the channels under "Basic" and "Expanded" show up when connected directly to the tv. When reading the footnotes on the bottom right of the lineup page, it looks like the only ClearQAM channels are the ones with the asterisk next to them (only 9 of them). Cox bastards.


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## Nola111

Sorry for so many questions, but I appreciate your help very much, Rainwater. What is the last TiVo model to support NTSC?


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## Nola111

Ha, looks like I just answered my own question again - the Premiere.


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## rainwater

Nola111 said:


> When I do a cable channel scan on my tv (a 2013 Samsung) with the line connected directly to the coax jack on the tv, it brings back about 75 channels with normal numbers (4, 5, 10, etc) and no more than 10 channels with .1 channel numbers. I assumed that meant that they're only simulcasting those 10 channels in digital. Is that right?


No, that just means that is how many digital channels are not encrypted (probably just the locals are not encrypted). With a cablecard, it could map all of the analogs.


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## Nola111

rainwater said:


> No, that just means that is how many digital channels are not encrypted (probably just the locals are not encrypted). With a cablecard, it could map all of the analogs.


Hmm ok. Well I went to get a Cablecard from Cox a couple days ago to try with my Roamio to try just that. I told the guy I need a M-Card for a Tivo Roamio, he immediately nodded his head and said yes ok no problem - but then he looked at my account and said "You have basic cable out of the wall - you don't need a cable card unless you have Advanced Digital which is a minimum $60 more per month than what you're paying now. That's not what you want, is it?"

I would maybe have thought he was full of crap and just trying to get my bill up, but he literally tried to talk me _out _of it.


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## HarperVision

rainwater said:


> No, that just means that is how many digital channels are not encrypted (probably just the locals are not encrypted). With a cablecard, it could map all of the analogs.


That's not true. ALL the digital channels will show on a scan, but if you try to tune them, only the ones in the clear will show picture and sound, encrypted (the ones you need a cablecard for) will just be blank. Heck, even the pay per views and on demand that people are watching in your neighborhood will show when you do a scan.


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## HarperVision

Nola111 said:


> Hmm ok. Well I went to get a Cablecard from Cox a couple days ago to try with my Roamio to try just that. I told the guy I need a M-Card for a Tivo Roamio, he immediately nodded his head and said yes ok no problem - but then he looked at my account and said "You have basic cable out of the wall - you don't need a cable card unless you have Advanced Digital which is a minimum $60 more per month than what you're paying now. That's not what you want, is it?"
> 
> I would maybe have thought he was full of crap and just trying to get my bill up, but he literally tried to talk me out of it.


Tell him that while what he says is pretty much true, in your case your TiVo won't map the channels to their correct position in the guide, making your TiVo worthless as a DVR and you'd have to manually schedule all your recordings. A tivo needs a cablecard to channel map correctly, no matter what your package is. That's what I always did and it worked like a charm.


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## Nola111

HarperVision said:


> Tell him that while what he says is pretty much true, in your case your TiVo won't map the channels to their correct position in the guide, making your TiVo worthless as a DVR and you'd have to manually schedule all your recordings. A tivo needs a cablecard to channel map correctly, no matter what your package is. That's what I always did and it worked like a charm.


Thanks HarperVision. Unfortunately, I'd already sent the Roamio back by the time I read your post  I have a Premiere on the way to me and I'll just use that for my analog cable channels which is really all I need. Thanks.


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## traveler100

I'm just starting up my Roamio basic having upgraded from my Non-cable card Series II TiVo. Irritated that my cable company will pry another $2 from my pocket for their card. I've read this thread top to bottom hoping that your knowledge would enlighten me about operation without the card. I've done the manual scan, Tivo acknowledged some 900 channels. I have basic extended service and all channels are recognized by TiVo, only the QAM tuner channels are viewable. Ironically all channels show in the TiVo guide but only the encrypted channels show the individual channels programming, but they are not viewable or recordable. All QAM channels are recordable but without programming information TiVo is of little value. I assume the guide information shown for the encrypted channels is pulled from the area code and service provider info input on TiVo start-up. Unless I'm able to find a black market M-Card tied to my service provider I'll be headed to their office and let them pry two more bucks/month from my back pocket. If I've missed something here guys help me out. I'm not cheap, but I am frugal.


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## keke1987

Question. I have the Premier 4 and WOW cable. Do I have to have the cable card in order for it to work?


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## shfawaz

I didn't need one.


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## Nrk7001

First time poster here. I just canceled my Cox TV service but have kept Internet. I was originally going to try to run OTA channels but noticed that we get quit a bit of channels from the wall to my TV. It's unclear on this thread, but it seems like TiVo really needs a cablecard to work even if I'm getting channels from the wall. Does anyone know if cable company's will provide a cablecard (for a fee) without actual TV service to get the wall channels to my TiVo? I am a customer (pay for top tier Internet) but unsure if they will require a TV subscription. I'm really only interested in the basic channels form the wall and OTA is a problem because my reception is terrible as my media rack for the house is in a basement. I bought a Romaio Plus but willing to take it back if there is a better model you recommend.


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## JoeKustra

Nrk7001 said:


> First time poster here. I just canceled my Cox TV service but have kept Internet. I was originally going to try to run OTA channels but noticed that we get quit a bit of channels from the wall to my TV. It's unclear on this thread, but it seems like TiVo really needs a cablecard to work even if I'm getting channels from the wall. Does anyone know if cable company's will provide a cablecard (for a fee) without actual TV service to get the wall channels to my TiVo? I am a customer (pay for top tier Internet) but unsure if they will require a TV subscription. I'm really only interested in the basic channels form the wall and OTA is a problem because my reception is terrible as my media rack for the house is in a basement. I bought a Romaio Plus but willing to take it back if there is a better model you recommend.


The chance of you getting a cable card and having it paired without TV service is less than world peace.

A TiVo will work on clear QAM without a cable card, but it's not pretty. Do a channel scan, write down the channels, compare it to your TV. Then manually enter that channel on the remote. If it works, you are beginning to see the problem without a cable card. You can go through your channel list and make those channels favorites, then display the guide with just favorites. You might even be able to make manual recordings.

I have a Premiere without a cable card and one clear QAM channel. I also have a Roamio with a cable card and HD service. I use the Premiere as a storage location.


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## UCLABB

Nrk7001 said:


> First time poster here. I just canceled my Cox TV service but have kept Internet. I was originally going to try to run OTA channels but noticed that we get quit a bit of channels from the wall to my TV. It's unclear on this thread, but it seems like TiVo really needs a cablecard to work even if I'm getting channels from the wall. Does anyone know if cable company's will provide a cablecard (for a fee) without actual TV service to get the wall channels to my TiVo? I am a customer (pay for top tier Internet) but unsure if they will require a TV subscription. I'm really only interested in the basic channels form the wall and OTA is a problem because my reception is terrible as my media rack for the house is in a basement. I bought a Romaio Plus but willing to take it back if there is a better model you recommend.


I don't get this. When did you buy the Roamio Plus? Recently or before you canceled TV? If you bought it a while ago, then you should have a cable card in it already. If you just bought it, why did you buy it? It doesn't work with OTA.

I would suggest that you not tell Cox that you are stealing their TV feed and would like to get a cable card so that you can not only steal it, you can record it.


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## HarperVision

Nrk7001 said:


> First time poster here. I just canceled my Cox TV service but have kept Internet. I was originally going to try to run OTA channels but noticed that we get quit a bit of channels from the wall to my TV. It's unclear on this thread, but it seems like TiVo really needs a cablecard to work even if I'm getting channels from the wall. Does anyone know if cable company's will provide a cablecard (for a fee) without actual TV service to get the wall channels to my TiVo? I am a customer (pay for top tier Internet) but unsure if they will require a TV subscription. I'm really only interested in the basic channels form the wall and OTA is a problem because my reception is terrible as my media rack for the house is in a basement. I bought a Romaio Plus but willing to take it back if there is a better model you recommend.


What equipment manufacturer does your headened use at Cox? If it's Cisco/Scientific Atlanta, then I have a few Cablecards that should work for simple mapping of your channels for guide data purposes. It won't decrypt any pay channels or give you anything free, but it will map all the clear QAM ones to their proper channel assignments.

Let me know and I can get one out to you mid Aug when I return.

Or if you need it sooner or you're a Motorola/Arris headened look on eBay. They sell for a couple bucks there.


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## dianebrat

JoeKustra said:


> The chance of you getting a cable card and having it paired without TV service is less than world peace.
> 
> A TiVo will work on clear QAM without a cable card, but it's not pretty. Do a channel scan, write down the channels, compare it to your TV. Then manually enter that channel on the remote. If it works, you are beginning to see the problem without a cable card. You can go through your channel list and make those channels favorites, then display the guide with just favorites. You might even be able to make manual recordings.
> 
> I have a Premiere without a cable card and one clear QAM channel. I also have a Roamio with a cable card and HD service. I use the Premiere as a storage location.


A cableCARD of the same mfr/flavor as the head end that's not paired will get the majority of unencrypted/protected channels without a subscription, we've had the debate here over the years as to the legality of how users get those CableCARDs but in general they will do the channel mapping for the lower tier channels in a non-subscribed scenario.


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## HarperVision

dianebrat said:


> A cableCARD of the same mfr/flavor as the head end that's not paired will get the majority of unencrypted/protected channels without a subscription, we've had the debate here over the years as to the legality of how users get those CableCARDs but in general they will do the channel mapping for the lower tier channels in a non-subscribed scenario.


It'll do channel mapping for ANY clear QAM in any tier, not just lower ones. Even SDV if someone in your neighborhood/node is watching the same channel.


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## tarheelblue32

HarperVision said:


> It'll do channel mapping for ANY clear QAM in any tier, not just lower ones. Even SDV if someone in your neighborhood/node is watching the same channel.


I have a hard time believing that it could correctly map the SDV channels. I thought that channel map was only assigned when you tried to view the channel.


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## dianebrat

tarheelblue32 said:


> I have a hard time believing that it could correctly map the SDV channels. I thought that channel map was only assigned when you tried to view the channel.


If you have SDV then the TA would handle the mapping instead of the CableCARD, that's popped up in more than a few threads too, but the OP isn't subscribed to any tier so as long as they have some QAM channels on the wire the "aquired" CableCARD should map.


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## JoeKustra

Nrk7001 said:


> First time poster here.


Here you go: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorola-M-...4517-002-00-/281763558813?hash=item419a6ab59d
or
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scientific-...leCard-card-/221084400892?hash=item3379a83cfc

Plenty others on eBay.


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