# The Flash - "Pilot" - 10/7/14



## packerfan (Jan 8, 2002)

I'm not finished with the episode yet, but I recognized the actor that played Barry's father. It is John Wesley Shipp and he was the actor that played the Flash in the series from the early 90's.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

I enjoyed this more than I thought I would. Some thoughts...

They squeezed in a lot of lore into the first hour. From the death of his mother to future villains, there were little tidbits here and there that matched up the show to the comics.

The actor from the original Flash series playing his father was a nice touch. Iris being African American is also a nice touch, breaking away from the homogeny of comics that debuted in the silver age. Also, I believe the new Wally West is black, so it makes sense.

There sure are a lot of people who know who he is.

Who is the scientist in the wheelchair? The final scene of the future headline was a wonderful shocker. What a nice way of bringing a major piece of lore into the show.

Special effects were mainly nice. Some weather effects look a little too computerized, but the lightning around him when he ran was very cool.

I wonder if he'll run on water?

When I was a kid, The Flash was my favorite comic book. I was jazzed for the show. I expected deviations from the comic book, but thankfully they also put quite a bit in to keep it from straying too much.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Dammit. You posted while I was typing, and I made so sure there wasn't already a thread for it.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

I watched it a few months back when it was leaked on the Internet. I really enjoyed it and I'm looking forward to the rest of the series.


----------



## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

Oh for cryin' out loud! I FORGOT!!!! And my cable's "on demand" doesn't include CW shows!

RATS!!!!!!!

Anyone know if the CW is having a Friday night or a weekend replay? PLEASE!


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

gastrof said:


> Oh for cryin' out loud! I FORGOT!!!! And my cable's "on demand" doesn't include CW shows! RATS!!!!!!! Anyone know if the CW is having a Friday night or a weekend replay? PLEASE!


 I don't see one. But I do see it on amazon streaming. Looks like it will be on Hulu plus also. Eventually.

I liked it a lot. More along the lines of a real comic book rather than the non-comic book series we've been getting which I tire of unless they are really good like Gotham.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

gastrof said:


> Oh for cryin' out loud! I FORGOT!!!! And my cable's "on demand" doesn't include CW shows!
> 
> RATS!!!!!!!
> 
> Anyone know if the CW is having a Friday night or a weekend replay? PLEASE!


Check the website tomorrow. Maybe you'll be able to stream it from there.


----------



## Bill Reeves (Jul 18, 2002)

gastrof said:


> Oh for cryin' out loud! I FORGOT!!!! And my cable's "on demand" doesn't include CW shows!
> 
> RATS!!!!!!!
> 
> Anyone know if the CW is having a Friday night or a weekend replay? PLEASE!


I don't know if this is my local CW station or the national network, but I see the first episode is being replayed tomorrow (Wednesday) night after Arrow. From cwtv.com, it looks like this is national.


----------



## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

Crap, I forgot too.


----------



## rjay717 (Nov 18, 2005)

I'm in.

My CW also shows it as being on tomorrow night (Wednesday) after Arrow.


----------



## packerfan (Jan 8, 2002)

I'm not finished with the episode yet, but I recognized the actor that played Barry's father. It is John Wesley Shipp and he was the actor that played the Flash in the series from the early 90's.


----------



## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

Considering the sign on the cage in Star Labs, I'm wondering when we're going to see Gorilla Grodd.


----------



## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

Great pilot, love the positive reaction to the super powers. Too many shows use the "it's a curse" and the brooding hero cliche. Nice change of pace.


----------



## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

gastrof said:


> Oh for cryin' out loud! I FORGOT!!!! And my cable's "on demand" doesn't include CW shows!
> 
> RATS!!!!!!!
> 
> Anyone know if the CW is having a Friday night or a weekend replay? PLEASE!


The pilot re-airs on the CW tomorrow 10/8 at 9:00pm eastern time


----------



## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

So they had the "Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizard-Spock" and "Bazinga!" shirts on the techie. I wonder if they're going to go meta and have him wear Sheldon's "Chemicals + Lightning = Flash" shirt.

--Carlos V.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Azlen said:


> Considering the sign on the cage in Star Labs, I'm wondering when we're going to see Gorilla Grodd.


I caught that.
I also think that this Eddie Thawne character bears watching.



Unbeliever said:


> So they had the "Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizard-Spock" and "Bazinga!" shirts on the techie. I wonder if they're going to go meta and have him wear Leonard's "Chemicals + Lightning = Flash" shirt.
> 
> --Carlos V.


Sheldon's shirt.
Although it would also be funny if Cisco wore the "Ring + Man = GL" shirt.

I thought that this was a good pilot and I'm really looking forward to the series.
I was surprised by the amount of people that know the secret but considering how many people seem to know Oliver's secret... (shrug).

Nice touch having that scene with Arrow though.
I wonder why there was no mention of Felicity.

I'm not sure where Harrison Wells fits in but it's a tantalizing scene.

(Also couldn't help noticing the Wayne Tech/Queen merger.)


----------



## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

JYoung said:


> I caught that.
> Sheldon's shirt.


Err.. right. Fixed. I have regularly forgotten my own name, that's how bad I am.

-Carlos V.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I enjoyed it very much and it's on SP. Glad we are getting some good shows for our superheroes out there!!


----------



## n548gxg (Mar 7, 2003)

bobcarn said:


> Who is the scientist in the wheelchair?


That was Tom Cavanagh. He played Ed in the TV show Ed, the bowling alley lawyer.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

n548gxg said:


> That was Tom Cavanagh. He played Ed in the TV show Ed, the bowling alley lawyer.


I know, but who is he within the show? Is he one of the existing characters in the comic? Good guy? Bad guy? All I know is that he is pretending to need the wheelchair and appears to have information from the future.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

bobcarn said:


> I know, but who is he within the show? Is he one of the existing characters in the comic? Good guy? Bad guy? All I know is that he is pretending to need the wheelchair and appears to have information from the future.


Did you catch the last scene? Did you notice the yellow blur around him? That is a hint.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

JYoung said:


> I also think that this Eddie Thawne character bears watching.


Yes. I'm thinking possibly an ancestor?

When I watch it again, I have to look for the t-shirts. I think it's pretty awesome they're wearing t-shirts that reference TBBT.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> Did you catch the last scene? Did you notice the yellow blur around him? That is a hint.


I didn't notice the yellow blur. I'll have to look again. If so, it fits with my first guess.


----------



## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

Spoilers for headline:
"FLASH MISSING, VANISHED IN CRISIS"



Spoiler



It may refer to whenever DC want revamped their comic books (mostly to update them to modern times), they would introduce a Crisis that affected all characters. Barry Allen's Flash had a big role in the latest Crisis.

Of course, we may have to wait 10 years for this to happen.


----------



## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Berlanti does super hero shows very well. Maybe DC should put him in charge of movies too.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

dtle said:


> Spoilers for headline:
> "FLASH MISSING, VANISHED IN CRISIS"
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



He also had a pretty big role in the original Crisis.

What with dying and all...  (Final Crisis is where he came back.)


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

dtle said:


> Spoilers for headline: "FLASH MISSING, VANISHED IN CRISIS" * SPOILER *


The producers and network hope so.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

scandia101 said:


> The pilot re-airs on the CW tomorrow 10/8 at 9:00pm eastern time


you can also watch online for free at cwtv.com:
http://www.cwtv.com/shows/the-flash/​


----------



## Carfan (Aug 9, 2003)

Hmmmm. Thwane. Professor Zoom. Reverse Flash. I'm liking where this is going!


----------



## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

NorthAlabama said:


> you can also watch online for free at cwtv.com:
> http://www.cwtv.com/shows/the-flash/​


Watch it w/o commercials on the CW channel on Plex


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> Did you catch the last scene? Did you notice the yellow blur around him? That is a hint.


I didn't see a yellow blur around him. At the end of the scene, they had a burst of lightning, but to me it looked like part of the scene change before the credits.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

This has been bugging me. In his picture in the newspaper, is his costume different?


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

bobcarn said:


> I didn't see a yellow blur around him. At the end of the scene, they had a burst of lightning, but to me it looked like part of the scene change before the credits.


Blur, lightening. It was similar to the affect they use for the Flash except he has red tones intermingled. I used blur to mean a flash of color. And if they used it to go to the credits, it would be the only time in the show they used a graphic to break from the scene.


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Was this any different from the leaked pilot? And did anyone (when I say anyone, I mean Ereth) notice the Carmine Infantino type camera angles they used?


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

bobcarn said:


> I didn't see a yellow blur around him. At the end of the scene, they had a burst of lightning, but to me it looked like part of the scene change before the credits.


This, I went and watched it and it seemed like a scene transition to me too.


----------



## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Philosofy said:


> Was this any different from the leaked pilot? And did anyone (when I say anyone, I mean Ereth) notice the Carmine Infantino type camera angles they used?


I'd forgotten about the leaked pilot. That might explain the odd ad compaign informing us that the premiere of the pilot would contain "3 minutes of never before seen footage". I laughed hard at that, thinking it should contain, oh, 40 minutes of never-before-seen footage, but I had forgotten the pilot was leaked. I did not see the leaked pilot so I can not comment on differences.

And no, I did not realize they were going for Carmine Infantino angles. The overhead shots of the city looking down as he zoomed around certainly fit Carmines style, though. I loved Carmine's Flash, and now I'm disappointed that I didn't notice that. Thank you for pointing it out.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Was it leaked, or was it released?

I thought the network released it...


----------



## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

vertigo235 said:


> This, I went and watched it and it seemed like a scene transition to me too.


Yep. Transition.


----------



## refried (Dec 22, 2005)

Hulu Plus has the pilot too. Looks good. It may push me to watch Arrow on Netflix.


----------



## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

PennyD said:


> This show is gonna be good, so much netter if they involve more heroes of course.


This would definitely be much netter.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

This picture was posted on Facebook during the lightening. There is the outline of a yellow mask. Maybe that is what I saw but didn't realize it. All I know is that I saw Reverse Flash during that scene.

Sorry if you saw multiple posts. Issues getting the picture loaded.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Perhaps next week we'll know, if the same lightning shows up at the end of each episode before the credits.


----------



## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

TonyD79 said:


> This picture was posted on Facebook during the lightening. There is the outline of a yellow mask.


I don't see anything that looks remotely like a mask.


----------



## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Perhaps not, but it does look like the lightning that was around Professor Zoom when he killed Barry's mom.

I'm old. I didn't realize until I looked it up on Wikipedia that Reverse Flash has a different real name in the New 52 Universe. I am a relic of the Silver/Bronze age.


----------



## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

Azlen said:


> Considering the sign on the cage in Star Labs, I'm wondering when we're going to see Gorilla Grodd.





JYoung said:


> I caught that.


I should hope so. They practically beat us over the head with it.



Ereth said:


> Perhaps not, but it does look like the lightning that was around Professor Zoom when he killed Barry's mom.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> I don't see anything that looks remotely like a mask.


You don't? Look around the right eye and nose.

If you don't see that, I give up.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

TonyD79 said:


> You don't? Look around the right eye and nose.


That's just a random squiggle. You are reading too much into it.

Also, that was NOT the only transition with yellow lightning. Just a minute before that, Barry ran down the street saying that he thought his new name would catch on, then as he sped past the screen, it faded out with yellow lightning.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Yup that's the exact same transition.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

vertigo235 said:


> Yup that's the exact same transition.


Heh, you're right. I had thought it was similar, but now that you mention it, it is the EXACT same lightning! I did not even try to catch it at the right frame, but it looks like I am within one frame of the same transition that scandia101 posted.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I enjoyed the first epsiode. I'm just curious how the rest of the season will play out. There is no way every episode can have the amount of special effects that the first epsiode had. It would be too expensive. I'll watch a few more epsiodes and then decide if I will continue watching.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I thought I caught most of the easter egg comic references in the premiere, but I missed a lot of them. I caught the Grodd and Ferris Air ones, but missed the rest.

http://screenrant.com/flash-tv-series-easter-eggs-comic-refrences/


----------



## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

The one I did catch, and loved the most, was the callback to the comic book Flashes origin. where Barry sees the waitress trip and drop her tray. In the comics he reaches out and catches everything and puts it back. And that's when he first begins to realize that he's fast. 

It wasn't quite a Carmine Infantino panel, but it was a nice reference.


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

What other easter eggs were there? Linda Park was the reporter, didn't she end up with Wally? And is the Professor character in the comics? From the screen caps above, it looks like he's the Reverse Flash/Professor Zoom, but I thought Eddie Thawn was the Reverse Flash.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

john4200 said:


> That's just a random squiggle. You are reading too much into it. Also, that was NOT the only transition with yellow lightning. Just a minute before that, Barry ran down the street saying that he thought his new name would catch on, then as he sped past the screen, it faded out with yellow lightning.


Whatever. We will see.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

TonyD79 said:


> Whatever. We will see.


There's nothing further to see. It is the *exact* same transition used a minute earlier on Barry. You are just wrong that the transition has any special significance.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

I read something that made a good point about Professor Zoom and the detective. 

Professor Zoom is from the future so the detective could just be his great great grandfather or something.


----------



## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

Ereth said:


> Perhaps not, but it does look like the lightning that was around Professor Zoom when he killed Barry's mom.
> 
> I'm old. I didn't realize until I looked it up on Wikipedia that Reverse Flash has a different real name in the New 52 Universe. I am a relic of the Silver/Bronze age.


Wait, what? Professor Zoom? Reverse Flash? Did I miss an episode?


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Philosofy said:


> What other easter eggs were there? Linda Park was the reporter, didn't she end up with Wally? And is the Professor character in the comics? From the screen caps above, it looks like he's the Reverse Flash/Professor Zoom, but I thought Eddie Thawn was the Reverse Flash.


Professor Zoom was Eobard Thawne. I caught Eddie Thawne's last name when they said it, but him actually being Reverse Flash/Professor Zoom is a little too obvious I think.


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

laria said:


> Wait, what? Professor Zoom? Reverse Flash? Did I miss an episode?


No, but since Barry's lightning is primarily red with a little yellow, and the event that killed his mother was mostly yellow, and it looked like a guy with a yellow cowl, we are theorizing that Barry's mom was killed by The Reverse Flash/Professor Zoom, one of the Flash's archest enemies from the comics. The Reverse Flash has a costumer that is yellow where the Flash's is red.


----------



## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

Oh, I don't know anything about the comics.


----------



## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Gunnyman said:


> Berlanti does super hero shows very well. Maybe DC should put him in charge of movies too.


I just watched this. It's amazing that if you want actual good superhero stuff on TV that the freaking CW is the place to go find it. This was a really fun pilot. I know that Berlanti & Co. have signed up to develop yet another superhero show (can't remember what). I hope they don't spread themselves too thin.


----------



## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

laria said:


> Oh, I don't know anything about the comics.


Me neither.

Here's a speculative EW post that ran after the pilot aired the other day. It gives an overview of this Thawne guy and the Reverse Flash and stuff, and how that all may fit into what we've seen so far. (It's got some very very vaguely spoilery comments from the producer, FYI.) I thought it was somewhat helpful.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/10/07/flash-cw-harrison-wells-newspaper-theories-spoilers


----------



## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

vertigo235 said:


> Yup that's the exact same transition.


For easy comparison


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

It looks to me like the city is wearing a mask.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

danterner said:


> It looks to me like the city is wearing a mask.


If it were Gotham, I'd believe the city murdered Barry's mother.

Maybe in the future, the city turns into Gotham, travels back in time, and murders Barry's mother!


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

laria said:


> Wait, what? Professor Zoom? Reverse Flash? Did I miss an episode?


It's something from the comics. All Barry knows is that lightning was there when his mom died, and there appeared to be a man in it. To a Flash fan of the comics, it's easily recognized who that man is.



Spoiler



Professor Zoom/Reverse Flash is Eobard Thawne, a man from the future who managed to give himself the same powers as the Flash. Obsessed with him, he travelled back in time to repeatedly torment Barry by bringing tragedy into his life. He was Barry's main antagonist in the Flashpoint animated movie, though in that movie, it was just a common criminal who killed his mom. In the comics, he killed Barry's mom when Barry was a kid, and Barry's father spent his life in prison convicted of the crime.


----------



## thewebgal (Aug 10, 2007)

laria said:


> Wait, what? Professor Zoom? Reverse Flash? Did I miss an episode?


There was actually an Animated film that tells that story. a friend recommended it to me last summer:
DCU: Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox [2013]
The film is available via Amazon and Netflix ...
I'm not a big animation fan, but it was actually pretty well done.

It's apparently based off a graphic novel Flashpoint, by Geoff Johns and Andy Kubert.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

thewebgal said:


> There was actually an Animated film that tells that story. a friend recommended it to me last summer:
> DCU: Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox [2013]
> The film is available via Amazon and Netflix ...
> I'm not a big animation fan, but it was actually pretty well done.
> ...


Actually, the animated Flashpoint movie doesn't have Professor Zoom as the antagonist in that same role. In the movie, he wasn't responsible for the death of Barry's mom. You can see a burglar breaking into their house.

And actually, Flashpoint, even though it was a well-done and fun story and comic series, is one of the most meaningless stories. Ever. It offers no information about characters that you didn't already know, and it wipes itself out of existence at the end, having never have happened. It can be summed up as such: "In 2011, DC rebooted their comics. All of the characters, costumes, histories, origins, and events are modernized and restart early in the heroes' careers."


----------



## doom1701 (May 15, 2001)

It's strange, I wanted to watch this last night instead of Gotham (which I haven't watched any of yet). I'm not sure if they can keep it up, but I loved The Flash. Just enough of everything I'd expect from a Flash series--humor, action, and some yet to be discovered backstory.


----------



## thewebgal (Aug 10, 2007)

bobcarn said:


> And actually, Flashpoint, even though it was a well-done and fun story and comic series, is one of the most meaningless stories. Ever. It offers no information about characters that you didn't already know, and it wipes itself out of existence at the end, having never have happened. It can be summed up as such: "In 2011, DC rebooted their comics. All of the characters, costumes, histories, origins, and events are modernized and restart early in the heroes' careers."


Isn't that the fun of many time travel tales - they spin back on their own tale and wipe out everything that transpired ... and only the traveller remembers there were 2 timelines involved.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

doom1701 said:


> It's strange, I wanted to watch this last night instead of Gotham (which I haven't watched any of yet). I'm not sure if they can keep it up, but I loved The Flash. Just enough of everything I'd expect from a Flash series--humor, action, and some yet to be discovered backstory.


Yeah, I like it more than Gotham. I like Gotham, but I'm seldom in the mood for something that intense anymore. Its' why I seldom watch Arrow. The Flash is lighter and brighter and very much a nicely done comic book TV show.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

thewebgal said:


> Isn't that the fun of many time travel tales - they spin back on their own tale and wipe out everything that transpired ... and only the traveller remembers there were 2 timelines involved.


It's why I almost never like time-travel stories. I keep logically finding flaws with how it plays out. Interestingly, one of the best time-travel stories that didn't open itself up to paradoxes and blatantly break rules was in the most unexpected of films: Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban. They never altered events, you just saw the same events from a different perspective and realized the outcomes were different than what you originally thought.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

thewebgal said:


> Isn't that the fun of many time travel tales - they spin back on their own tale and wipe out everything that transpired ... and only the traveller remembers there were 2 timelines involved.


Right...in Flashpoint, Reverse Flash changed time in an attempt to get rid of the JLA (it's actually a lot more complicated than that); for a short while there was a very dark DC Universe as a result; the Flash "fixed" it, but he doesn't get it entirely right, resulting in the New 52. So the story had pretty profound consequences.

That said, although it is the origin story of the New 52, as Bob suggests you don't really need it. It was an excuse for the reboot.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Right...in Flashpoint, Reverse Flash changed time in an attempt to get rid of the JLA (it's actually a lot more complicated than that); for a short while there was a very dark DC Universe as a result; the Flash "fixed" it, but he doesn't get it entirely right, resulting in the New 52. So the story had pretty profound consequences.
> 
> That said, although it is the origin story of the New 52, as Bob suggests you don't really need it. It was an excuse for the reboot.


Did I misread something in the series? I'm sure that Reverse Flash wasn't the cause of Flashpoint. The alternative events were just as much a surprise to him as to the Flash, though he was very pleased because they benefited him greatly.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

bobcarn said:


> Did I misread something in the series? I'm sure that Reverse Flash wasn't the cause of Flashpoint. The alternative events were just as much a surprise to him as to the Flash, though he was very pleased because they benefited him greatly.


Well, as I said, it was complicated. I don't want to get into the twists, but it started with Reverse Flash and then went on from there.


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

My head hurts!


----------



## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

One thing I've seen several places comment on is that The Flash is lighter, which is good. Maybe we don't have to have everything be dark and broody just because Nolans Batman did so well. Maybe it'll start a trend?


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Ereth said:


> One thing I've seen several places comment on is that The Flash is lighter, which is good. Maybe we don't have to have everything be dark and broody just because Nolans Batman did so well. Maybe it'll start a trend?


I agree. Its funny, because the one movie that should have been more serious was Green Lantern, and they tried to make it funny, and it failed.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> For easy comparison


 Nope. The mask around the eye does NOT appear in the top picture.

Thanks for making it obvious that the mask exists.


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

I have no idea what you are seeing, but the yellow effects in both of those images are IDENTICAL.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

zordude said:


> I have no idea what you are seeing, but the yellow effects in both of those images are IDENTICAL.


Yup. I think he is talking about the random squiggle that kind of looks like the eye hole of a mask. It is present in both transitions, since, as you reiterate, they are exactly the same.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

john4200 said:


> Yup. I think he is talking about the random squiggle that kind of looks like the eye hole of a mask. It is present in both transitions, since, as you reiterate, they are exactly the same.


Don't be ridiculous. In the top picture, sure, it's a random squiggle. But in the bottom picture it's CLEARLY a mask!


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I can tell from the pixels and having seen a lot of shops in my time that, in actuality, in both the top and bottom images, the yellow squiggles are masks.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

danterner said:


> I can tell from the pixels and having seen a lot of shops in my time that, in actuality, in both the top and bottom images, the yellow squiggles are masks.


Wow, can you imagine how many hours of work it would be to create a mask of the lightning transition from one of those images and then paste it onto another image?

It might be easier to hack into the showrunners computers and get it directly.


----------



## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

TonyD79 said:


> If you don't see that, I give up.





TonyD79 said:


> Nope. The mask around the eye does NOT appear in the top picture.
> 
> Thanks for making it obvious that the mask exists.


You said that you give up. You lied.


----------



## Jagman_sl (Mar 14, 2001)

Near the end of the episode there was a bicyclist who was hit by a taxi cab and then saved by the Flash. As the man is flying through the air we see Flash come in at what appears to be top speed, grab the man out of the air, and then rush away with him to safety.

How did this not kill the man? Getting hit by the taxi should have been bad enough, but the Flash hit him at over 300 MPH and then carried him in the opposite direction. Is there a comic book explanation for how the bicyclist survived?


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

He manipulated the speed force to allow him to reduce his speed without killing him. 

Wibly Wobly speedy weedy.


----------



## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Jagman_sl said:


> Near the end of the episode there was a bicyclist who was hit by a taxi cab and then saved by the Flash. As the man is flying through the air we see Flash come in at what appears to be top speed, grab the man out of the air, and then rush away with him to safety.
> 
> How did this not kill the man? Getting hit by the taxi should have been bad enough, but the Flash hit him at over 300 MPH and then carried him in the opposite direction. Is there a comic book explanation for how the bicyclist survived?


Comic Book Physics.

It's exactly why a superhero catching you as you fall from a skyscraper doesn't harm you, even if they only catch you inches from the ground. In the comic book world, impact with human beings has no force whatsoever, it's only impact with solid substances that cause harm.

Fall from an airplane and land in a snowdrift and you can walk away.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Ereth said:


> Comic Book Physics.
> 
> It's exactly why a superhero catching you as you fall from a skyscraper doesn't harm you, even if they only catch you inches from the ground. In the comic book world, impact with human beings has no force whatsoever, it's only impact with solid substances that cause harm.
> 
> Fall from an airplane and land in a snowdrift and you can walk away.


Didn't the character in the Amazing SPider-MAn 2 die when she was stopped just a few inches from the ground?

I'm going to check out the Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox movie. I don't see where Netflix has it for streaming. I guess I will rent it from Vudu instead.


----------



## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

It's been pointed out that this is a spoiler, so I've put it in spoiler tags. Sorry!


Spoiler



Yes, Gwen Stacy being a notable exception. In fact, that's one of the reasons her death in Spider-Man 121 was such a shock.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

One episode in and I'm hopelessly lost. Didn't read much Flash comics back in the day. Much more up on Batman and Supes, but even there I only read on the late 70s and very early 80s. Here I'm lost.

How did he know Arrow guy? He ran 600 miles, it wasn't a random meeting,right?


----------



## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

wprager said:


> One episode in and I'm hopelessly lost. Didn't read much Flash comics back in the day. Much more up on Batman and Supes, but even there I only read on the late 70s and very early 80s. Here I'm lost.
> 
> How did he know Arrow guy? He ran 600 miles, it wasn't a random meeting,right?


Barry Allen was on Arrow for an episode or two last season. That is where they met.


----------



## Jagman_sl (Mar 14, 2001)

Ereth said:


> Comic Book Physics.
> 
> It's exactly why a superhero catching you as you fall from a skyscraper doesn't harm you, even if they only catch you inches from the ground. In the comic book world, impact with human beings has no force whatsoever, it's only impact with solid substances that cause harm.
> 
> Fall from an airplane and land in a snowdrift and you can walk away.


Yeah, that's the explanation I was afraid of. I was hoping there was something that the Flash could do, like the other explanation, that would explain it. But, as a long time comic reader (more Marvel than DC) I know your answer is the correct one.


----------



## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Ereth said:


> Yes, Gwen Stacy being a notable exception. In fact, that's one of the reasons her death in Spider-Man 121 was such a shock.


Didn't she actually smack the ground? My recollection is that they even had the impact sound effect in there.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cmontyburns said:


> Didn't she actually smack the ground? My recollection is that they even had the impact sound effect in there.


I thought that was the sound of her neck snapping..?


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I thought that was the sound of her neck snapping..?


Yup


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

cmontyburns said:


> Didn't she actually smack the ground? My recollection is that they even had the impact sound effect in there.


Her head, hands, and heels hit the ground, but it looked like her neck was broken before that.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Gee, thanks for spoiling AMSM2, guys.






There was an incident during the later run of Flash Volume 1 (circa early 80s) where the Flash broke the arm of someone he was pulling out of harm's way.

Things were moving so fast, Barry couldn't take his normal precautions to prevent the injury.
(IIRC, it was Captain Daryl Frye.)

Wally was later shown as be able to change inertia on other objects due to his connection to the Speed Force.
(He could add or subtract momentum to objects.)


----------



## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I thought that was the sound of her neck snapping..?





vertigo235 said:


> Yup


IMO the sound is definitely the thunk of her head smacking the ground.

http://moviepilot.com/posts/2014/05...lk-about-it-1396545?lt_source=external,manual


> Director Marc Webb has revealed that Gwens head hitting the ground was the intended cause of death


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I didn't realize that since I didn't recall them showing blood from the back of her head.


----------



## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Jagman_sl said:


> Yeah, that's the explanation I was afraid of. I was hoping there was something that the Flash could do, like the other explanation, that would explain it. But, as a long time comic reader (more Marvel than DC) I know your answer is the correct one.


I'm sure they can make something up. JYoung points out that they did make an effort at one point, and we have the magical "aura" that protects Barry from burning up from friction, and extends to anything he's touching, so it could easily alter inertia, too, with just a toss-away line.

But it's endemic to superheroes. Lois Lane falls out of the helicopter in Superman: The Movie and Superman flies up and catches her without any impact at all.

I think that if you consider that almost nobody dies in comics, even from explosions and stuff like that, that we must posit that humans in the comic book world are much harder to break than humans in the real world. Otherwise there are far too many rules we'd have to build to explain everything.

John Byrne spent some time trying to explain that Supermans powers must be psionic because you can't simply pick a building up from the corner and hurl it without the forces of lifting the corner destroying it, so Superman must be able to apply force to the entire building at once, not just the part he's touching.

You can get really deep down in the physics hole if you try to make superhero powers work in real life.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Ereth said:


> But it's endemic to superheroes. Lois Lane falls out of the helicopter in Superman: The Movie and Superman flies up and catches her without any impact at all.


To be fair, if you watch the background in that scene carefully, it clearly shows that Superman matched Lois's downward speed, caught her, then slowed and reversed to an upward direction.

Of course, he then caught the helicopter by the skid while flying upwards and I have no idea if the skid assembly had enough tensile strength not to simply snap under the strain of the sudden reverse in direction.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Jagman_sl said:


> Yeah, that's the explanation I was afraid of. I was hoping there was something that the Flash could do, like the other explanation, that would explain it. But, as a long time comic reader (more Marvel than DC) I know your answer is the correct one.


Technically, Barry bends the laws of physics by generating a special force around himself. This force, in the comics, could be manipulated in various ways. Wally West (Kid Flash, who also tapped into the same force) could speed up or slow down things he was in contact with (even freezing them in statis). Barry could carry people and objects and navigate at hyperspeeds without harming them because his force moves the object with him. Kind of like a Star Trek inertial dampener, but self-generated.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Yes it's called the speed force.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_Force


----------



## Jagman_sl (Mar 14, 2001)

The Speed Force is the kind of answer I was hoping for. They should have mentioned something in the show itself, especially after Barry broke his wrist while running at the airfield. Clearly whatever protected the bicyclist didn't protect Barry himself.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Jagman_sl said:


> The Speed Force is the kind of answer I was hoping for. They should have mentioned something in the show itself, especially after Barry broke his wrist while running at the airfield. Clearly whatever protected the bicyclist didn't protect Barry himself.


Yeah but that was a pretty minor injury considering what he ran into and the damage he did to those water barrels.


----------



## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Jagman_sl said:


> The Speed Force is the kind of answer I was hoping for. They should have mentioned something in the show itself, especially after Barry broke his wrist while running at the airfield. Clearly whatever protected the bicyclist didn't protect Barry himself.


At this point, I'm certain Barry has no idea what the Speed Force is yet.

My favorite quote on that topic comes from Jay Garrick, the very first Flash.

"My entire life I never ran faster than the speed of sound. The very first time I met Barry I ran faster than light. Barry didn't tap into the speed force, Barry created the speed force".

(From memory, so may not be exact).


----------



## Jagman_sl (Mar 14, 2001)

vertigo235 said:


> Yeah but that was a pretty minor injury considering what he ran into and the damage he did to those water barrels.


Hence my question about the guy on the bicycle. If Barry made a mess of the water barrels and broke his own wrist in the contact, the bicyclist should have been hurt as well. Heck, just changing course in the other direction at that speed should have snapped his neck.

Another question: When Barry is running as the Flash his perception of time changes, right? Like what we saw in the restaurant where everything appeared to be moving much slower than him. So, when he's running it would be "real time" to him. Does that mean his 600 mile run to Starling City actually felt like it would to a normal person running that same distance? Granted, to outside observers it was much faster, but to Barry I would think it wouldn't be any different.


----------



## Jagman_sl (Mar 14, 2001)

Ereth said:


> At this point, I'm certain Barry has no idea what the Speed Force is yet.
> 
> My favorite quote on that topic comes from Jay Garrick, the very first Flash.
> 
> ...


It will be cool if they go into this stuff in the show. I'm not really that familiar with the Flash, so I've got questions about how his power works. I'm curious about the nature of his powers and how they differ from the Marvel analogues. In the wiki article about the Speed Force it even mentioned when the Flash traveled to the Marvel Universe he was de-powered. So clearly DC universe only. I want to see more about that and how the Reverse Flash also taps into it.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

All this is too much info. I hope the show doesn't go into this much depth.


----------



## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

Jagman_sl said:


> The Speed Force is the kind of answer I was hoping for. They should have mentioned something in the show itself, especially after Barry broke his wrist while running at the airfield. Clearly whatever protected the bicyclist didn't protect Barry himself.


The head of Star Labs (forget his name) said that forces from outside our universe were released during the accident, and among other things, they (along with the chemicals and lightning?) gave Barry his powers.

I'd say that opens the door to a connection to a "speed force".



Jagman_sl said:


> It will be cool if they go into this stuff in the show. I'm not really that familiar with the Flash, so I've got questions about how his power works. I'm curious about the nature of his powers and how they differ from the Marvel analogues. In the wiki article about the Speed Force it even mentioned when the Flash traveled to the Marvel Universe he was de-powered. So clearly DC universe only. I want to see more about that and how the Reverse Flash also taps into it.


On the other hand, in that same timeline (post-Crisis, pre-Flashpoint) when the Flash from the 1940s (Barry's predecessor Jay Garrick) lost his connection to the speed force, it was said he was still a meta-human, and still very, very fast. How much of his speed had been lost wasn't made plain, but he was still able to operate as the semi-retired Flash. (And yes, they had explained why 1940s characters hadn't aged as much as they should have since then.)


----------



## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> All this is too much info. I hope the show doesn't go into this much depth.


Sometimes that's the best take. "We don't know why it seems he's breaking the laws of physics. It just works."

An alien with a red S on his chest can fly. A criminal can create tornadoes and other changes in weather as an act of will. A guy can move at incredible speed, think at incredible speed, and feel no ill effects from his speed. In the Marvel universe, a scientist is exposed to high levels of gamma radiation, and instead of dying of cancer or getting toasted, he turns big, strong, and green. Another guy gets bit by either a genetically enhanced or radioactive spider, and instead of dying horribly, develops spider-like characteristics.

Yeah.

Happens every day.

Who cares if it's weird, it's supposed to be! ENJOY!


----------



## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Jagman_sl said:


> It will be cool if they go into this stuff in the show. I'm not really that familiar with the Flash, so I've got questions about how his power works. I'm curious about the nature of his powers and how they differ from the Marvel analogues. In the wiki article about the Speed Force it even mentioned when the Flash traveled to the Marvel Universe he was de-powered. So clearly DC universe only. I want to see more about that and how the Reverse Flash also taps into it.


That whole sequence was to put the Flash and Quicksilver on even footing, on at least one Earth. But Quicksilver doesn't run at the speed of light, so as to make the race between speedsters interesting they had to depower the Flash.

But it's a nice touch if you consider the concept that Barry created the speed force, rather than it having always existed. Since there's no Barry Allen in the Marvel universe, there was no speed force. (One Flash story had Barry actually turn into the Bolt of Lightning that struck him, and occupying the Speed Force itself, throughout time. Wrap your mind around that!)

They also had a throwaway line about the Marvel Earth being slightly smaller, and that's why there are so many more cities on DC Earth, with room for Metropolis and Gotham right there by New York City.



> Another question: When Barry is running as the Flash his perception of time changes, right? Like what we saw in the restaurant where everything appeared to be moving much slower than him. So, when he's running it would be "real time" to him. Does that mean his 600 mile run to Starling City actually felt like it would to a normal person running that same distance? Granted, to outside observers it was much faster, but to Barry I would think it wouldn't be any different.


I've always thought that was one of the more interesting untouched aspects. Yes, he can run cross country in under a second, but he still had to RUN CROSS COUNTRY! And his senses are so fast that it's no different from you or I doing it, other than he doesn't get tired. I would think he'd get bored.

There was at least one comic, a Justice League, I think, where they had the Flash complaining that we had no idea how annoying it was for him to slow down just to have conversations with the other heroes. He can run around the planet between syllables of their sentences. It's like talking to incredibly slow people and its frustrating for him. I suspect they won't play that up in the TV show. It's just like how bored your computer is waiting for you to press that next key. Several million things it can do between key presses. Barry is faster than that, even.


----------



## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

Ereth said:


> It's just like how bored your computer is waiting for you to press that next key. Several million things it can do between key presses. Barry is faster than that, even.


It goes both ways with computers though. I often ponder that as processor chips get faster and faster, I still can't find an ATM or gas pump that can keep up with me. 

Back to the OP though - I'm glad they're not doing the "costume in a ring" thing. I never liked that gimmick.


----------



## jamesl (Jul 12, 2012)

Jagman_sl said:


> Near the end of the episode there was a bicyclist who was hit by a taxi cab and then saved by the Flash. As the man is flying through the air we see Flash come in at what appears to be top speed, grab the man out of the air, and then rush away with him to safety.
> 
> How did this not kill the man? Getting hit by the taxi should have been bad enough, but the Flash hit him at over 300 MPH and then carried him in the opposite direction. Is there a comic book explanation for how the bicyclist survived?







and not related to this particular discussion, but I love this scene


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Ereth said:


> I've always thought that was one of the more interesting untouched aspects. Yes, he can run cross country in under a second, but he still had to RUN CROSS COUNTRY! And his senses are so fast that it's no different from you or I doing it, other than he doesn't get tired. I would think he'd get bored.


And he can't even listen to music either! At least Superman can go, "Hey cool! I'm flying!" 

For anyone who is interested in what the real world might look like to someone who could speed up his or her senses to near light speed, check out femto-photography, which is a technique that can capture images at an effective rate of almost 600 billion times per second.

To give you an idea of how fast that is, if the frames were played at the standard movie rate of 24 frames per second, it would take over 770 years to watch one second of footage.

One of the people involved in the project, Professor Ramesh Raskar, also did a TED talk on this:


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

As a longtime Flash comic book reader I always assumed he could alter his perception of his speed as he wanted.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Peter000 said:


> As a longtime Flash comic book reader I always assumed he could alter his perception of his speed as he wanted.


I agree, I think that's the only way he could possibly stay sane.


----------



## Jagman_sl (Mar 14, 2001)

Glad to see my questions sparked some discussion. I really enjoyed the show and am looking forward to this next episode. I still think it would be cool if they devoted some time to the Speed Force concept, but I can see how long time fans might be bored with that. Of course, if it's going to be monster of the week episodes a story about the Speed Force might be really welcome.


----------



## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

Just watched this on Amazon. What I know of the DC Universe comes for the Superman comics I read in the 2nd grade. Was this how Flash gets his power in the comics, an overloading super collider?

Had a very Smallville-esque feel. Especially near the end when he meets up with Arrow. Are they part of Justice League? 

I'm guessing they wanted to lend a little NYC grit to the police detective's role with Jesse L. Martin.

The kid playing the lead looks pretty fragile. Unlike the other super heroes of the last few years.

Overall, it seems a little lightweight, (like Smallville), but I'll give it a few eps to see where it goes.


----------



## ehusen (Jan 7, 2002)

vertigo235 said:


> I agree, I think that's the only way he could possibly stay sane.


In regards to the speed perception (sorry I must be pedantic), if he can go fast but still have his senses at "normal speed", would that not be incredibly dangerous? How could he react to upcoming obstacles and such at superspeed?

Does his unconscious reflexes work at super speed while still having his normal perception at normal speed?

Just curious how the writers would explain that.


----------



## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

It's magic.


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

ehusen said:


> In regards to the speed perception (sorry I must be pedantic), if he can go fast but still have his senses at "normal speed", would that not be incredibly dangerous? How could he react to upcoming obstacles and such at superspeed?
> 
> Does his unconscious reflexes work at super speed while still having his normal perception at normal speed?
> 
> Just curious how the writers would explain that.


I've always figured a super-speedsters perceptions must be much different from ours for just that reason. Obviously they have to react at super-speed somehow, otherwise things would get very messy!


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

ehusen said:


> In regards to the speed perception (sorry I must be pedantic), if he can go fast but still have his senses at "normal speed", would that not be incredibly dangerous? How could he react to upcoming obstacles and such at superspeed?
> 
> Does his unconscious reflexes work at super speed while still having his normal perception at normal speed?


It could be that when in super speed he utilizes some form of procedural memory, allowing him to react to things with hyper perception, but not remember much of it, thus eliminating the boredom.


----------



## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

PennyD said:


> FLASH! OH OHHHHH savior of the universe!


Wrong Flash.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

ej42137 said:


> Wrong Flash.


Zzzzoooom


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

danterner said:


> Zzzzoooom


Wrong Flash.


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Wrong Flash.


:up: :up: :up:


----------



## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

Perfect place for one of my faves:


----------



## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

RGM1138 said:


> The kid playing the lead looks pretty fragile. Unlike the other super heroes of the last few years.


Yeah, he doesn't even seem to be in especially good shape. The "lightning gave me abs" shot looked like they digitally gave him a 6-pack. Actually, it looked more like a 10-pack. Kind of odd and unnatural looking.

I liked the pilot, so I will give this show a chance. I could barely get through one episode of Arrow, and I barely got through the Arrow scene in The Flash pilot. So cheesy, I don't get it. I got through two episodes of Gotham, and while I don't think it's a bad show, it's just not interesting to me. Something about The Flash was amusing, maybe it's the humor and that I liked The Flash series from 90-91.


----------



## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

DLiquid said:


> Yeah, he doesn't even seem to be in especially good shape. The "gave me abs" shot looked like they digitally gave him a 6-pack. Actually, it looked more like a 10-pack. Very odd and unnatural looking.


Yeah, I was thinking that in that scene, we only saw his reflection from the neck down. It could have a body double. I'd have to go back and watch it again.


----------



## rjay717 (Nov 18, 2005)

None of the Flash's - Barry Allen, Jay Garrick, or Wally West, are bulky at all. Most of the interpretations have them pretty skinny, superhero comparatively speaking.


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

rjay717 said:


> None of the Flash's - Barry Allen, Jay Garrick, or Wally West, are bulky at all. Most of the interpretations have them pretty skinny, superhero comparatively speaking.


Which makes sense. They're runners, not heavy-muscle.


----------

