# Tivo's Sleazy Rip-Off



## Emacee (Dec 15, 2000)

Tivo has hit a new low. I doubt even the Tivo groupies will be able to condone this latest scam.



> *TiVo Invokes Aereos Corporate Corpse To Market An Exclusive Deal That Costs $70 More Than No Deal At All*
> 
> Aereo only operated for two years, and in that time the company commanded a small but loyal fan base. Customers in the cities where the streaming service operated enjoyed being able to capture, record, and stream local over-the-air broadcasts until the company got shot down by the courts and went bankrupt. Now, another company is trying to fan those flames of affection for its own marketing  and the deal on offer is not good at all. ...
> 
> ...


Google's motto is "don't be evil." Tivo ain't Google. Shame on you, Tivo.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

*shrug* This is by far not the first time that a direct marketing campaign has a higher price than other product distribution channels, and that doesn't apply only to TiVo. 

I wouldn't call it a scam, and I'm not all that bothered by it.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Emacee said:


> Tivo has hit a new low. I doubt even the Tivo groupies will be able to condone this latest scam.
> 
> Google's motto is "don't be evil." Tivo ain't Google. Shame on you, Tivo.


The Aero deal also includes a TiVo Stream based on the other announcements.

http://www.engadget.com/2015/07/06/tivo-aereo-promo/

So you save about $60 over buying it without the promo from direct TiVo. Guess the Consumerist doesn't really do their research before posting....

Scott


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## sangs (Jan 1, 2003)

While I have no problem with this "offer," I'm confused. Wasn't the entire purpose of Aero for those that didn't have an antenna or cable? How is this marketing to the same crowd? You can't use this service without an antenna.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

TiVo acquired Aereo's customer list. You're right that the service is not the same.


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## dfreybur (Jan 27, 2006)

sangs said:


> Wasn't the entire purpose of Aero for those that didn't have an antenna or cable?


The purpose of Aero included folks who could not receive a good signal. At one point we lived just behind a big ridge so we had no line of sight to any of the transmitters. At one point we lived in a high raise with a shielding steel structure and we lived on the side pointing away from line of site to the downtown cluster of transmitters. I've met folks who moved to other metro areas but miss the local stations in their old locations. All of these in addition to folks who decided against having an antenna or cable because their network bandwidth was good enough.

Tivo isn't actually offering the Aereo service are they? They are just pitching former Aereo members to by a Tivo. Too late for me - I had a Tivo over a decade before Aereo existed. ;^)

I was happy to sign up for Aereo when we first cut the cable. I would love to not have the hassle of antennas, but I would rather have antennas than deal with the cable packages. I value local news and network shows more than I value content on cable. I used to like the food and garden channel pairs, but PBS shows work just fine for my purposes.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

It technically is an exclusive deal, since it's nothing down. Of course any savvy shopper will find it's cheaper on TiVo's website. What's even sleazier though is that the OTA with Lifetime is only available if you know the exact right terms to Google, in order to Google into their site. I can't find it anywhere on their actual website.

Hopefully they clearly offer the $399 price point soon, as the whole point of "cord cutting" is avoiding monthly fees, so a TiVo for cord cutters with a monthly fee is kind of pointless.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

How is a $60 discount a sleazy rip-off?
The deal is $480 and ignoring the offer and buying it all at full price would be $540, so it's $60 less. How do you come up with it being $70 less at $410?


$50....Tivo OTA 
$360..24mo of service @ $15
$130..Tivo stream

$540..total


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

I see. You're just vomiting up what some other website says w/o checking the facts yourself even though it was so unbelievable.

Tivo's offer
https://www.tivo.com/aereo_ota_offer


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Bigg said:


> What's even sleazier though is that the OTA with Lifetime is only available if you know the exact right terms to Google, in order to Google into their site. I can't find it anywhere on their actual website.


Go to their home page and click the big banner at the top that says "Hot Summer Sale". You'll find the OTA with lifetime there.


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## Peter G (Jan 3, 2012)

Took 30 seconds to find Roamio deal with lifetime service on TiVO's website. Hot Summer Deals. No secret here.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

scandia101 said:


> I see. You're just vomiting up what some other website says w/o checking the facts yourself even though it was so unbelievable.
> 
> Tivo's offer
> https://www.tivo.com/aereo_ota_offer


I don't think anyone realized it offered TiVo Stream.



Dan203 said:


> Go to their home page and click the big banner at the top that says "Hot Summer Sale". You'll find the OTA with lifetime there.


Iiinteresting. You can get it for a dollar less through that, although that appears to be yet a different deal, as it is $49 plus $349, not the $399 bundle.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

People are stupid and pay for subsidized phone plans, and heck, anyone that pays monthly for tivo and not lifetime..

Doesn't really seem much worse than that.. They are "saving" $50 out of pocket to start with.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

They are saving $180 out of pocket up front because the deal includes a Stream which is $130. After 2 years you're actually saving about $60 compared to the normal price of $180 + $15/mo you'd pay for that same equipment. 

But like you said, monthly is a bad deal compared to lifetime no matter what. The payback on lifetime compared to this deal is ~27 months and that's not including the inherit resale value of lifetime.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Bigg said:


> I don't think anyone realized it offered TiVo Stream.



That's my point. No fact checking. Nobody bothered to check out the actual deal at tivo.com before going off half cocked about what somebody else went off half cocked about.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

scandia101 said:


> That's my point. No fact checking. Nobody bothered to check out the actual deal at tivo.com before going off half cocked about what somebody else went off half cocked about.


The email from the "Aereo Transition Officer" says

"This HD antenna DVR and streaming player in one brings two exciting worlds of content together in a single experience."

which sure sounds like it's the Roamio itself that's doing the streaming and not some separate at an additional expense box, which makes it sound like you're only getting the one piece of hardware for whatever that price was.

I notice that email also completely ignores the whole "people subscribed to Aereo because they couldn't get an OTA signal with an antenna" issue.

So while sleazy may not be the apt phrase, I think a case for "sloppy" can be made.

What's Latin for "Buyer, do your research very thoroughly first"?


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

unitron said:


> The email from the "Aereo Transition Officer" says
> 
> "This HD antenna DVR and streaming player in one brings two exciting worlds of content together in a single experience."
> 
> which sure sounds like it's the Roamio itself that's doing the streaming and not some separate at an additional expense box, which makes it sound like you're only getting the one piece of hardware for whatever that price was.


 And the place that is actually selling the stuff (tivo.com) clearly says that this offer includes a Tivo Stream and it includes a picture of a R OTA with a Stream to make it idiot proof.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

unitron said:


> I notice that email also completely ignores the whole "people subscribed to Aereo because they couldn't get an OTA signal with an antenna" issue.


There is nothing they can do about that issue. Aereo went out of business because they could not afford to pay the retransmission fees to continue their service as it was designed. I don't think anyone could, at least not without charging significantly more then Aereo was charging.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> There is nothing they can do about that issue. Aereo went out of business because they could not afford to pay the retransmission fees to continue their service as it was designed. I don't think anyone could, at least not without charging significantly more then Aereo was charging.


I believe unitron's point is the irony of Tivo making this generous offer for a Roamio OTA to people who have issues receiving OTA signals.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I think PlayStation Vue offers locals in some markets. But their prices aren't much better then cable. (min $50/mo) No other service I know of offers access to local channels without an antenna, dish or cable.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> There is nothing they can do about that issue. Aereo went out of business because they could not afford to pay the retransmission fees to continue their service as it was designed. I don't think anyone could, at least not without charging significantly more then Aereo was charging.


The broadcasters probably won't give it to them. OTOH, Limited Basic is typically around $13-$17/mo, and would work fine with a Roamio Basic.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> I think PlayStation Vue offers locals in some markets. But their prices aren't much better then cable. (min $50/mo) No other service I know of offers access to local channels without an antenna, dish or cable.


PS Vue offers all local networks except ABC and I think PBS in all of its service areas.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> PS Vue offers all local networks except ABC and I think PBS in all of its service areas.


So 3 out of 5 or 60% of the major networks in some markets?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Yeah it's definitely only some markets because if you check the website NBC goes away when selecting some of the cities.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> Yeah it's definitely only some markets because if you check the website NBC goes away when selecting some of the cities.


Oh, those must not be O&O stations then. I think the initial three markets (NYC, Chicago and Philly) all had Fox, NBC and CBS. Maybe that was the sticking point for the newer ones like SF and LA and why they were delayed?


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> Yeah it's definitely only some markets because if you check the website NBC goes away when selecting some of the cities.





HarperVision said:


> Oh, those must not be O&O stations then. I think the initial three markets (NYC, Chicago and Philly) all had Fox, NBC and CBS. Maybe that was the sticking point for the newer ones like SF and LA and why they were delayed?


I just checked and all Vue areas offer at least NBC, Fox and CBS and some offer MyTV. ABC is of course missing since they haven't come to an agreement with Disney, which also means they don't have ESPN or Disney channels. Hopefully soon!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

That's weird. Yesterday when I played with it the NBC logo would disappear when selecting some of the cities. Now it's always there. Not sure if there was a bug or if something actually changed in the plan between yesterday and today.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Still not a great deal. I can get all the same channels, plus more, from Charter for the same price and I don't have to use my internet bandwidth to get them or need a $400 PS3. 

SlingTV is an OK deal, by PSV is essentially the same price as cable with many more drawbacks.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> Still not a great deal. I can get all the same channels, plus more, from Charter for the same price and I don't have to use my internet bandwidth to get them or need a $400 PS3. SlingTV is an OK deal, by PSV is essentially the same price as cable with many more drawbacks.


The programming costs are about the same, but where Vue saves you money is by not having to pay for additional outlets, DVR, HD fees, extra equipment, yada yada yada. Plus they have no commitments or contracts and you can subscribe and cancel at will.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

HarperVision said:


> The programming costs are about the same, but where Vue saves you money is by not having to pay for additional outlets, DVR, HD fees, extra equipment, yada yada yada. Plus they have no commitments or contracts and you can subscribe and cancel at will.


With Roamio and the Mini you can get all the outlets you should need, no extra cost from the cable co. If all you want is the OTA signal and an antenna will not do the job, basic cable + a Roamio setup will do the job in most areas. You also, in most cases, need the internet and with basic cable your internet is less costly so the basic cable is not that much extra.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> There is nothing they can do about that issue. Aereo went out of business because they could not afford to pay the retransmission fees to continue their service as it was designed. I don't think anyone could, at least not without charging significantly more then Aereo was charging.


They could have paid the retransmission fees if they'd been given the same rates per subscriber as the cable companies are given by the broadcasters.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Maybe if Tivo would send a contractor to an OTA customer's residence, for an additional fee, to set up the antenna they might sell more of these units. People don't want to be responsible for their reception. They could also offer some sort of reception warranty where the customer could call to have a technician come out and fix issues.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

shwru980r said:


> Maybe if Tivo would send a contractor to an OTA customer's residence, for an additional fee, to set up the antenna they might sell more of these units. People don't want to be responsible for their reception. They could also offer some sort of reception warranty where the customer could call to have a technician come out and fix issues.


I think the extra cost of a basic cable (for many people), if you have the internet with them, is so low that the antenna solution is not worth the trouble.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

It must totally tear up the insides of the OP to view a rent-a-center ad.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

I sent Consumerist an e-mail pointing out their error but I see they haven't either taken down the article or updated it or even bothered responding.

Scott


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

1. Yes, TiVo is guilty of omitting that there are, for some, better deals to be had for the TiVo box and service. It is a bit slimy of TiVo rather than pointing them to the best deals/options or offer them some discount. It is just that people have high standards for TiVo and its business practices.

2. The one thing I got loud and clear from the comments, although quite uninformed to a high degree as they were, at the end of the article was how vehemently virtually all of those people were opposed to paying ANY monthly fee. This is why the inferior, but competitively priced, Channel Master DVR+ still has its LEGIONS of ardent faithful true believers. TiVo's experiments with pricing for OTA and service in the $399 range is what TiVo should be focusing upon. A one-time including box and service pricing to match the Channel Master DVR+ internal HDD model. That makes for a TiVo DVR with NO FEES, and that is what those customers want. TiVo could also make it clear that the separately purchased Mini can allow the viewing in additional rooms as in INDEPENDENT experience, a reasonably priced solution to CM DVR+'s solution of a Slingbox that will interrupt anyone watching at the DVR+ box and requires at least a mobile device and Roku and even then the streaming quality is not the full, crystal clear HD that one gets on the Mini. Anyone with a functioning brain can see the advantages of a properly priced TiVo+Service and the additional 2 tuners of the TiVo OTA as making the CM DVR+ as the bad deal. Finally, some of those comments were from people who will NEVER be pleased with anything. As if the grocery store, the water company, et al. aren't also extorting me? You can hunt and live off of the creatures even in big cities and I knew a guy who went from the city to the mountains every week to collect his "pure" safer and cheaper water from the source rather than consume and pay for water from the local water company. I even knew a family who had a disagreement with the electric company and decided to no longer buy there electricity. He lived in a suburban home with no juice for decades. I give those people credit because they lived their live's like they pontificated, unlike the hypocrites who commented at the end of the article. Some of those posters were just morons.

The one thing TiVo can't do is provide the OTA stations for those who don't have line of site. Unfortunately, while Aereo was a good option, they are left with Cable or Sat. HOWEVER, I for one would recommend placing a TiVo OTA at (family member's) home who has OTA line of site and investing in the latest inexpensive Slingbox and Sling that to the home TV via Amazon FireTV. Total cost comes close to Areo's "deal" but gets one OTA's if one is not line of site.


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