# Amazon application to be exclusive to Roamio/Premieres soon



## sangs (Jan 1, 2003)

I just received the following e-mail from Amazon. Not sure why, since I don't own any Tivos other than Roams, but it's certainly to be of interest to many here.

Hello,

As someone who has used the Amazon application on your TiVo, we want to let you know about important upcoming changes to the application.

****If you have a TiVo HD, TiVo HD XL, TiVo 160, TiVo 320 (Series 2 and Series 3):

The Amazon application will no longer be available on TiVo Series 2 and Series 3 devices after April 15, 2015. You won't be able to download videos from Amazon to your device after this date. You can however continue to watch the movies and TV episodes you've previously purchased and downloaded on your TiVo by following the instructions below.

Important - To keep your downloaded videos:

1. Download all purchased videos you want to save to your TiVo by April 15, 2015. After this date, you won't be able to download videos from Amazon on your device.

2. To make sure your downloaded videos remain saved to your device, check the "Keep Until" settings for each one. Use your remote to open TiVo Central, then go to your "Now Playing" list. Select a video, open the "Keep Until" option, and choose "Keep Until I Delete" or specify a date.

If you dont download your purchased videos onto your TiVo and check the "Keep Until" date for each, you wont be able to watch them on your device after April 15, 2015.

As a TiVo Series 2 or Series 3 customer, you're also eligible for $100 off a TiVo Roamio sold by Amazon.com so you can stream Amazon Instant Video.

You'll see the promotional credit reflected in your order details. This offer is available until April 30, 2015. See the following link for the full terms and conditions:

https://www.amazon.com/TiVo5OfferTerms

****If you have a TiVo Premiere (Series 4) device:

The Amazon application will no longer allow downloads onto your TiVo after April 15, 2015. This means you wont be able to download videos to your TiVo after this date. You can however continue to watch the movies and TV episodes you purchased and downloaded on your TiVo prior to this date by following the instructions below.

Important - To keep your downloaded videos:

1. Download all purchased videos you want to save to your TiVo by April 15, 2015. After this date, you won't be able to download videos from Amazon on your device.

2. To make sure your downloaded videos remain saved to your device, check the "Keep Until" settings for each one. Use your remote to open TiVo Central, then go to your "Now Playing" list. Select a video, open the "Keep Until" option, and choose "Keep Until I Delete" or specify a date.

If you dont download your purchased videos onto your TiVo and check the "Keep Until" date for each, you wont be able to watch them on your device after April 15, 2015.

You can also stream your purchased movies and TV episodes on hundreds of compatible devices including TiVo Roamio, Smart TVs, game consoles, iOS, Android, and Fire devices. For more information about ways to watch, go to:

https://www.amazon.com/watchnow

Sincerely,

Customer Service
Amazon.com

Please note: this e-mail was sent from a notification-only address that cannot accept incoming e-mail. Please do not reply to this message.


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## MichaelAinNB (Dec 28, 2013)

You might want to change your title. I received the same email and I am pretty sure the Amazon application will continue to be available to Premier owners.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Yeah, to be clear, the old download service is going away for probably everybody.

Amazon Prime streaming will continue on as normal.


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## MichaelAinNB (Dec 28, 2013)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Yeah, to be clear, the old download service is going away for probably everybody.
> 
> Amazon Prime streaming will continue on as normal.


Can you clarify "the old download service" please? Are you saying Premier owners won't be able to purchase and download anything from Amazon in the future?


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## sangs (Jan 1, 2003)

MichaelAinNB said:


> You might want to change your title. I received the same email and I am pretty sure the Amazon application will continue to be available to Premier owners.


Then you should read the bottom half of the e-mail I received as it says it's going away for Premiers as well.


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

MichaelAinNB said:


> Can you clarify "the old download service" please? Are you saying Premier owners won't be able to purchase and download anything from Amazon in the future?


That's the most likely interpretation of that email.

With the updated Amazon Instant app that just recently came to Premieres and has been on Roamios for a few months, you were still able to initiate downloads to your Tivo and purchase downloadable content via the Amazon website, even though you couldn't actually access the downloadable content from the new Amazon Instant app. The consensus regarding this email is that Amazon is terminating its downloadable content on April 15th.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

MichaelAinNB said:


> Can you clarify "the old download service" please? Are you saying Premier owners won't be able to purchase and download anything from Amazon in the future?


Yes, per the above letter. The older purchase/rental app is going away. Pre-existing purchases can be saved to the Tivo before the cutoff date.


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## sangs (Jan 1, 2003)

Interesting that they're taking it away from everything pre-Roamio, but only offering a upgrade discount to purchase the Roamio for Series 2 and 3 - and not for Premiers.


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

sangs said:


> Then you should read the bottom half of the e-mail I received as it says it's going away for Premiers as well.


This nothing more than bad copy written by the Amazon marketing department. Tivo has spent months promising Amazon Instant (Prime streaming) access for Premiere's, as well as had to deal with annoyed customers due to a delay of at least a month in releasing 20.4.6 to Priority List Premiere owners (which had the necessary tweaks to enable the new Amazon Instant app). Premiere owners are not going to lose access to the app only 6 weeks after Tivo finally delivered it to the first Premiere boxes.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

I don't think the Amazon download app has been available on any Tivo sold after Jan 1, 2014 because of an FCC rule (regarding closed captioning).

So the only question is what happens to those who bought a Roamio in the few months between August 2013 and December 2013. That's a somewhat pointlessly small group so I'm guessing it's going away for everybody.



sangs said:


> Interesting that they're taking it away from everything pre-Roamio, but only offering a upgrade discount to purchase the Roamio for Series 2 and 3 - and not for Premiers.


They want you to upgrade to a box that can use the Prime streaming service. No upgrade is needed for Series 4 boxes.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

sangs said:


> Interesting that they're taking it away from everything pre-Roamio, but only offering a upgrade discount to purchase the Roamio for Series 2 and 3 - and not for Premiers.


Premieres have Amazon Prime, and you can continue to watch your purchased videos with that.


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> I don't think the Amazon download app has been available on any Tivo sold after Jan 1, 2014 because of an FCC rule (regarding closed captioning).
> 
> So the only question is what happens to those who bought a Roamio in the few months between August 2013 and December 2013. That's somewhat pointless so I'm guessing it's going away for everybody.


I'm one of those. The old app disappeared when the new Amazon app was added to Roamio's last year. As mentioned previously, you could still initiate downloads to the Roamio via the website. That's all that will really change for any Roamio; no more website-initiated downloads.


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## sangs (Jan 1, 2003)

tatergator1 said:


> This nothing more than bad copy written by the Amazon marketing department. Tivo has spent months promising Amazon Instant (Prime streaming) access for Premiere's, as well as had to deal with annoyed customers due to a delay of at least a month in releasing 20.4.6 to Priority List Premiere owners (which had the necessary tweaks to enable the new Amazon Instant app). Premiere owners are not going to lose access to the app only 6 weeks after Tivo finally delivered it to the first Premiere boxes.


You're talking about two different things. Amazon Instant and Amazon Prime Streaming are not the same.


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

sangs said:


> You're talking about two different things. Amazon Instant and Amazon Prime Streaming are not the same.


No, I'm not. Amazon still officially refers to their current video service as "Amazon Instant Video." Amazon "Prime Streaming" is a subset of that offering.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

Yes, the app is still called "Amazon Instant Video" but the service that downloads to your TiVo is going away. You can still stream items from your Amazon library without downloading, you just can't do that on a Series 3 or older.


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## sangs (Jan 1, 2003)

tatergator1 said:


> No, I'm not. Amazon still officially refers to their current video service as "Amazon Instant Video." Amazon "Prime Streaming" is a subset of that offering.


Amazon Instant can download videos. Amazon Prime can only stream. They're not the same thing and never have been. Maybe the Tivo app says they are, but that's labeled incorrectly.


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## MichaelAinNB (Dec 28, 2013)

sangs said:


> Then you should read the bottom half of the e-mail I received as it says it's going away for Premiers as well.


My apologies Sangs. I neglected to fully read the email you posted and assumed we had received the same verbiage. Here is the email I received which, as you will see says nothing about Premier owners. Again, apologies for not reading your post in its entirety.

Hello,

As someone who has used the Amazon application on your TiVo Series 3, we want to let you know the application will no longer be available on your TiVo after April 15, 2015. This means you won't be able to download videos to your TiVo after this date. You can however continue to watch the movies and TV episodes you purchased and downloaded on your TiVo prior to this date by following the instructions below.

**Important - To keep your downloaded videos:

1. Download all purchased videos you want to save to your TiVo by April 15, 2015. After this date, you won't be able to download videos from Amazon on your device.

2. To make sure your downloaded videos remain saved to your device, check the "Keep Until" settings for each one. Use your remote to open TiVo Central, then go to your "Now Playing" list. Select a video, open the "Keep Until" option, and choose "Keep Until I Delete" or specify a date.

If you don't download your purchased videos onto your TiVo Series 3 and check the "Keep Until" date for each, you won't be able to watch them on your device after April 15, 2015.

You can also stream your purchased movies and TV episodes on hundreds of compatible devices including TiVo Roamio, Smart TVs, game consoles, iOS, Android, and Fire devices. For more information about ways to watch, go to: https://www.amazon.com/watchnow

As a TiVo Series 3 customer, you're eligible for $100 off a TiVo Roamio sold by Amazon.com so you can stream Amazon Instant Video.

You can redeem this offer on the Amazon website:
1. Go to: https://www.amazon.com/TiVo5
2. Add a qualifying TiVo Roamio device to your Cart and proceed to checkout.
3. On the "Select a Payment Method" page, enter B6FQ-XU59WR-Y5NXQJ under "Gift Cards & Promotional Codes."
4. Place your order.

You'll see the promotional credit reflected in your order details. This offer is available until April 30, 2015. See the following link for the full terms and conditions:

https://www.amazon.com/TiVo5OfferTerms

Sincerely,

Customer Service
Amazon.com

Please note: this e-mail was sent from a notification-only address that cannot accept incoming e-mail. Please do not reply to this message.


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

sangs said:


> Amazon Instant can download videos. Amazon Prime can only stream. They're not the same thing and never have been. Maybe the Tivo app says they are, but that's labeled incorrectly.


The current implementation of the Amazon Instant Video app on almost all devices is streaming only; the Tivo app has been the real outlier with the preservation of the legacy downloading ability of Amazon Instant Video.

The app has been called "Amazon Instant Video" for a long time" In Series 2, 3, and 4 days, Amazon Instant Video was an extension of Amazon's original video service known as Amazon Unbox, which allowed downloads of purchased video content to several different devices that had a hard drive, including Tivos. Then, Amazon moved into streaming as well, bundling many titles for free with Prime membership. Amazon began providing an updated Amazon Instant Video app to things like Smart TVs, Roku, etc. These apps were the future of the service and relied solely on streaming. You could also stream your content previously purchased during the old Amazon Unbox service, but these devices don't have a hard drive, so downloading was meaningless. Amazon preserved the download functions for older devices, like Tivo.

The Amazon Instant Video app for Tivo's was allowed to become a relic for a long time, until Amazon and Tivo finally collaborated for an updated Amazon Instant Video app for Roamios, and eventually Premieres, that provided the shift towards Amazon delivering content to Tivos via streaming, as it had been doing to other devices for years. Amazon continued to preserve the old download functionality for legacy devices like Series 2 and Series 3 Tivos.

The above email is Amazon's notice to customers that the legacy Amazon Unbox service and the downloading of purchased content to a hard drive enabled device is finally being killed off. It has always been Amazon Instant Video. The method of delivery has simply evolved with changes in technology.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

I don't care so much about d/l my purchases to my TiVo, because I look at Amazon almost as an off site server anyway... why use my storage when I can use theirs?

What I'm wondering is if I can still use my TiVo search function to find digital shows and movies and buy/stream them through my cable owned TiVo.


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## spaldingclan (Aug 22, 2012)

so you can "stream" these purchased shows/movies with the new app on the series 4 and Roamios just not "download"


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

spaldingclan said:


> so you can "stream" these purchased shows/movies with the new app on the series 4 and Roamios just not "download"


Okay, well I'm good with that.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

spaldingclan said:


> so you can "stream" these purchased shows/movies with the new app on the series 4 and Roamios just not "download"


Assuming this is a question, the answer is yes.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Unbox is basically being retired for sure. Windows downloads are going away too.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201723660


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Unbox is basically being retired for sure. Windows downloads are going away too.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201723660


Yes, Amazon is shutting off all the downloaded content. I assume this has to do with the content owners not liking downloading for security reasons. They probably forced Amazon to do this. I wonder how long before they try to force Apple to stop video downloads on iTunes too. Like it or not, we are clearly moving towards a cloud/streaming world.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

I understand the future is streaming not downloading and I also understand why Amazon is doing this but it sucks for those of us that don't have good enough Internet access to stream anything.


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## sangs (Jan 1, 2003)

MichaelAinNB said:


> My apologies Sangs. I neglected to fully read the email you posted and assumed we had received the same verbiage. Here is the email I received which, as you will see says nothing about Premier owners. Again, apologies for not reading your post in its entirety.


Please, no need to apologize.


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## 59er (Mar 27, 2008)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Yes, Amazon is shutting off all the downloaded content. I assume this has to do with the content owners not liking downloading for security reasons. They probably forced Amazon to do this. I wonder how long before they try to force Apple to stop video downloads on iTunes too. Like it or not, we are clearly moving towards a cloud/streaming world.


I wonder if this also relates to the FCC requirement for captioning on their content, which I don't believe any of the downloaded content supported.

And I don't think I've seen anyone say this explicitly, so I'll say it: The streaming service will still allow you to buy or rent new paid content on Premieres and Roamios; you will just be limited to streaming your new content instead of downloading it.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

atmuscarella said:


> I understand the future is streaming not downloading and I also understand why Amazon is doing this but it sucks for those of us that don't have good enough Internet access to stream anything.


Agreed, but hopefully it will be changing, for the better.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

sangs said:


> Amazon Instant can download videos. Amazon Prime can only stream. They're not the same thing and never have been. Maybe the Tivo app says they are, but that's labeled incorrectly.


There are so many language issues going on ITT.

First, I can download prime videos. Not all of them, but a good number. But only to Amazon devices (Fires). You can download non-prime content to iOS devices... but I don't THINK prime content? I don't know for sure.

Second, It's all Amazon Instant Video. A subset of Amazon Instant Videos are free with prime. But it's all Amazon Instant Video.

They are the same thing. They always have been. Prime videos are just a list of Amazon Instant videos that are free to stream and, in some cases, download, for prime members. That's it. It's all one service.

There ARE labeling issues on third party devices, though. But it's all Amazon Instant Video.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

tatergator1 said:


> The current implementation of the Amazon Instant Video app on almost all devices is streaming only; the Tivo app has been the real outlier with the preservation of the legacy downloading ability of Amazon Instant Video.


Well, not really an outlier? I mean, iPads, iPhones and Fire devices are a pretty huge segment of the market. Arguably, android is the outlier, since it's the only mobile device that CAN'T. (edit: oh, yeah, win mo? Them too.)

Desktops have been able to download until this notice. Now they can't. But we still have a laptop with the Unbox app and it still works... and I guess, will for a bit longer.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

atmuscarella said:


> I understand the future is streaming not downloading and I also understand why Amazon is doing this but it sucks for those of us that don't have good enough Internet access to stream anything.


Lots of things suck for people who don't have good enough internet access to stream anything. The FCC no longer even considers what you have to be "broadband internet!" They reclassified it. You should get faster internet.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Grakthis said:


> You should get faster internet.


Yep, and along with many other things . . . . ;(


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Grakthis said:


> Lots of things suck for people who don't have good enough internet access to stream anything. The FCC no longer even considers what you have to be "broadband internet!" They reclassified it. You should get faster internet.


I would if I could but my only wired option is Frontier 6Mbps DSL which can only maintain 1+/- Mbps most of the afternoon and evening.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

MichaelAinNB said:


> Can you clarify "the old download service" please? Are you saying Premier owners won't be able to purchase and download anything from Amazon in the future?


To clarify this, anything that you purchase ebooks, music, and videos are store in your Amazon cloud drive. You can download them to your computer and burn them to a DVD if you want to. The new streaming app, replace the the instance video app.


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## MichaelAinNB (Dec 28, 2013)

Johncv said:


> To clarify this, anything that you purchase ebooks, music, and videos are store in your Amazon cloud drive. You can download them to your computer and burn them to a DVD if you want to. The new streaming app, replace the the instance video app.


Got it, thanks.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

atmuscarella said:


> I would if I could but my only wired option is Frontier 6Mbps DSL which can only maintain 1+/- Mbps most of the afternoon and evening.


So you're one of the millions of Americans Obama is talking about that doesn't have access to broadband internet.

That sucks, dude. Have you tried calling them? DSL should actually get the advertised rate unless you're really far from the exchange.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Grakthis said:


> So you're one of the millions of Americans Obama is talking about that doesn't have access to broadband internet.
> 
> That sucks, dude. Have you tried calling them? DSL should actually get the advertised rate unless you're really far from the exchange.


Oh yes many calls. Frontier has done all the normal stuff to try and appease me (new modem/router, sent techs to check line). I get a solid 6 Mbps at 6:00 am every morning which drops as usage increases through the day to 1+/-Mbps by evening. The last time techs came out to check my line I told them to not waste their time as we all new their was nothing wrong with my line. They laughed and told me everyone knew where the problem was. Apparently all Internet access through my switching station goes to another switching station where there isn't enough through capacity to handle the demand. I keep hoping Frontier will spend the money to fix the capacity issue  but I am not hold my breath.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

No email so far, although my tivo hd is connected to amazon and downloads tv series I have purchased.


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## MichaelAinNB (Dec 28, 2013)

An email I received from Amazon said that, in order to access and watch current videos stored on the Amazon servers (I am paraphrasing here), I would first have to update the Unbox app to its latest version. This version includes a one-time license conversion that will make my videos available within Windows Media Player. Well, for whatever reason, it didn't click that they were referring to software that may be stored on my PC and I went searching on the Amazon website for the area to update the soon to be defunct Unbox application. Not only couldn't I find the area to update the app, I couldn't find anything that even mentioned Unbox. So, I had to resort to a live chat session with Amazon TS. Come to find out, it was the Unbox software program on my PC that had to be updated. Had the email simply said I needed to update the Unbox software on my PC, I would have understood (I guess everything now a days is called an app and the word "software" is no longer used). Thing is, I no longer had the software installed on my PC and I couldn't find anywhere on the Amazon site to download it so, back to Amazon TS I went. They provided me with the exe file for the Unbox "app" which, once installed executed the necessary file conversion on the Amazon site that stores my videos.


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## rlcarter (May 10, 2010)

This link from the Amazon web site on FAQ for Instant Video's answers these questions quite well.

*See this Amazon Instant Video FAQ*
http.... support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/259


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

Let me hyperlink that for you. Amazon Instant Video FAQ:
http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/259

vs

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201460880


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## rlcarter (May 10, 2010)

Also see this page on Amazon Help. "Amazon Instant Video Device Features", in this section at the bottom of the page where the information about the newer Tivo Units are listed, they show Tivo HD Series 5 and Tivo Mini allow downloading HD Video

http.... *.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201460880*

This contradicts information in my previous post, also from Amazon's website.


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## MichaelAinNB (Dec 28, 2013)

rlcarter said:


> Also see this page on Amazon Help. "Amazon Instant Video Device Features", in this section at the bottom of the page where the information about the newer Tivo Units are listed, they show Tivo HD Series 5 and Tivo Mini allow downloading HD Video
> 
> http.... *.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201460880*
> 
> This contradicts information in my previous post, also from Amazon's website.


Is it possible that information doesn't apply to changes made effective after April 15th? It shows that all TiVo models have download capability.


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## rlcarter (May 10, 2010)

While all TiVo units which have download capability will download from other sites and or content providers, unless they are a Series 4 or higher, they will not be able to download from Amazon. 

There are more video formats out there, than there are legs on a millipede. The technology does not exist for transcoding from one format to another on the fly if you tried, there would be breaks, delays or interruptions in the video stream, even if you are simply downloading. So the video content has to be stored in a format that can be displayed on the majority of hardware, that format falls into two categories, MPEG2 for downloading and MPEG4 for streaming. An MPEG4 video is 2x - 4x smaller than an MPEG2 format and most display units which can play a stored video file do so using MPEG2 or MPEG2-TS. MPEG2-TS is at least twice the size of an MPEG2 file. In order to support more simultaneous streams using existing hardware, the only option Amazon has is to move to MPEG4, which can be stored as a file, but must be transcoded to MPEG2 or MPEG2-TS before it will display on your TV or through your DVD player. This transcoding process is slow and can not be done on demand or on the fly or without special software, which does not come installed on older hardware devices. This is the reason old TiVo units are being excluded from downloads. The older units can receive and play the newer MPEG4 format which can be displayed on the older TV units but not saved as a file and then transcoded to MPEG2 for display on your TV at a later date, that special type of transcoding does not exists on older commercial hardware, devices prior to 2010 or 2011, unless they were built to allow a software upgrade that supports this kind of transcoding to an older TV, DVD or DVR player.

Another reason technical support gave me that has not been listed in any public information that I have seen, is the fact that Amazon is upgrading their web applications and web services to support HTML5. There are a multitude of new features in HTML5 specific to the management of and streaming of, video. HTML5 while supporting MPEG2 and MPEG4 formats, has a preference for MPEG4. HTML5 does not have the ability to transcode an MPEG4 file to an MPEG2 format, that requires specific hardware and software, C++ and again, these transcoding features are not built into the older hardware units.

So the elimination of downloading content from Amazon for older TiVo units is really about changing standards and improvements in the ability to transmit, decode or transcode, a video file from one format to another so that it will still display on older display devices which only support an MPEG2 format. Somewhere in the middle, that transcoding has to occur, otherwise Amazon would have to keep each video they rent or sell, stored in multiple formats in order to avoid the transcoding process. That I'm sure, would be a several billion dollar effort, so the best solution is to upgrade with the standards that keep improving and stop supporting old hardware which can not support the new standards.

The support for video formats that have higher compression ratios, i.e. MPEG4 and allow for a much smaller portion of the available band width, is only one a several driving forces at play here. Therefore Amazon can deliver more streams with their existing infrastructure if they support just a few formats. Dropping support for technologies that are now 10-15 years old only makes sense if they want to keep pace with the industry as a whole.

Spoke with both Amazon technical support and TiVo technical support for clarification on who is impacted with the inability to download content from Amazon if they use a TiVo unit. The dividing line on who can and can't, starts at the TiVo Series 3 and 4 units. Anyone using a TiVo Series 3 of any kind, will not be able to download content from Amazon after April 15, 2015 but they will be able to stream it as it will be in an MPEG4 format. For customers who own a TiVo HD, Series 4 Premier, XL, XL4 or Elite, or Roamio Series 5, those customer will not be impacted by this change at Amazon, I don't know for sure, but I'm assuming these units have hardware and software that allows them to transcode MPEG4 to MPEG2 for display on older TV's.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

59er said:


> I wonder if this also relates to the FCC requirement for captioning on their content, which I don't believe any of the downloaded content supported.
> 
> And I don't think I've seen anyone say this explicitly, so I'll say it: The streaming service will still allow you to buy or rent new paid content on Premieres and Roamios; you will just be limited to streaming your new content instead of downloading it.


i think the FCC thing was about close captioning that the downlop appm did not support


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

rlcarter said:


> ...For customers who own a TiVo HD, Series 4 Premier, XL, XL4 or Elite, or Roamio Series 5, those customer will not be impacted by this change at Amazon, I don't know for sure, but I'm assuming these units have hardware and software that allows them to transcode MPEG4 to MPEG2 for display on older TV's.


Thank-you for an interesting and thoughtful post. Two small issues that don't materially affect your points:

* A TiVo HD is a kind of Series 3, it won't support streaming, so it will also feel the full impact of this change.

* Premiere and Roamio machines can download as well as stream until April 15th, so they are impacted by this change. Amazon Prime users with poor Internet connections often cannot successfully stream movies but can download them, and playback is somewhat more functional for downloaded content than for streaming.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

ej42137 said:


> Amazon Prime users with poor Internet connections often cannot successfully stream movies but can download them, and playback is somewhat more functional for downloaded content than for streaming.


And just to emphasize this, it's not people on telephone dial-up we're talking about--people with DSL at rates far from what the FCC now considers as "broadband" are impacted. And there are a whole lot of people who fall into that group.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Mikeguy said:


> And just to emphasize this, it's not people on telephone dial-up we're talking about--people with DSL at rates far from what the FCC now considers as "broadband" are impacted. And there are a whoe lot of people who fall into that group.


Yes and I would be one of those unlucky people stuck with DSL that doesn't function well enough to stream stuff. I used Amazon on my TiVo because I could download and I use Vudu on my HTPC for the same reason. I guess if they all stop allowing downloads I can go to bit torrent


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## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

So to clarify (I know it's been stated a few different ways already), My original Series 3 will not be able to stream or download Amazon after the day I write a big check to Uncle Sam? And my Premiere will also be unable to download, but will be able to stream content from Amazon?

I have a cap, downloading shows and movies the kids like to watch more than once (like multi times it seems to me) saves me bandwidth. I am not too surprised to see support for the Series 3 slipping away, but the Premiere is only about 2 years old..... Oh bother. 

Will the Romio be able to download?

Does anyone know if I could download Amazon content to my Xbox?


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

daveak said:


> So to clarify (I know it's been stated a few different ways already), My original Series 3 will not be able to stream or download Amazon after the day I write a big check to Uncle Sam? And my Premiere will also be unable to download, but will be able to stream content from Amazon?
> 
> I have a cap, downloading shows and movies the kids like to watch more than once (like multi times it seems to me) saves me bandwidth. I am not too surprised to see support for the Series 3 slipping away, but the Premiere is only about 2 years old..... Oh bother.
> 
> ...


It appears that all downloading will be eliminated and it will be streaming only on the Premieres and Roamios.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

atmuscarella said:


> I guess if they all stop allowing downloads I can go to bit torrent


Now, _that's_ what they want to hear.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

OK, Amazon App will no longer function on S2 and S3 models. In other words renting/buying/viewing NEW content from Amazon at all will no longer function. Essentially, no more Amazon content available on S2 and S3 boxes.

All Amazon apps now support STREAMING only and will function on S4 and S5 models.

I think the streaming from Amazon might require a hardier chip than the S2's and S3's have, or at least not support a whole lot of the HD content that Amazon now has. However, it is another death by a thousand cuts for the S3. No MPEG4 support and now this. S3's are becoming an OTA only box. Very sad considering how well made and designed the 648's were (S3's still a rock solid HD DVR) and the lovely OLED on the front that is useful.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Although the S3 now is getting dated, I always thought that its front information panel was a boon to users interested in knowing. Sigh--gone with cost-cutting.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The original S3 was super expensive. Adjusted for inflation it would cost about $930 today, before service! That little OLED screen was a big part of that cost. I'm sure prices on the various parts have come down, but given that a Roamio Pro costs $1,100 with lifetime service I'm not sure the market could bear even a $100 price hike for an OLED screen.


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## LI-SVT (Sep 28, 2006)

Is everyone who used this service getting this e-mail and the $100 credit offer?.

I have used the purchase and download option several times on my S2 and S3. I have not gotten any e-mail about this service going away or upgrade offers.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Series3Sub said:


> ...I think the streaming from Amazon might require a hardier chip than the S2's and S3's have, or at least not support a whole lot of the HD content that Amazon now has. However, it is another death by a thousand cuts for the S3. No MPEG4 support and now this. S3's are becoming an OTA only box. Very sad considering how well made and designed the 648's were (S3's still a rock solid HD DVR) and the lovely OLED on the front that is useful.


The main issue is closed captioning, which is required to be supported under the ADA. Downloads never supported captions, and Amazon is unwilling to add it. The old app doesn't support captions either, so a new app was required. This is what has rolled out to the Premieres and Roamios over the last couple of releases.

Since the old technology is out or compliance, and they don't want to fix it, Amazon is shutting down the entire system, leaving only the modern streaming option. For whatever reason (likely having to do with the CPU/GPU support in the hardware) Amazon's newer streaming app only works on the newer DVRs.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

It's cheaper to just get an Amazon Fire TV, than it is to upgrade, and the Fire TV works so much better than a Tivo for OTT apps.


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## LoraJ (Mar 7, 2002)

I can't download anything on my PC or Roamio anymore either. Am I the only one having this issue? this is stuff I bought.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The download service ended April 15th.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

LoraJ said:


> I can't download anything on my PC or Roamio anymore either. Am I the only one having this issue? this is stuff I bought.


Please explain: "I can't download anything on my PC or Roamio . . . ." Do you mean, you can't transfer downloads on your PC to your Roamio, on your Roamio to your PC, or ? If you instead mean that you can't get podcast videos to download automatically onto your TiVo set, as noted above, TiVo secretly and without any notice, warning or explanation removed that functionality last month.

Let TiVo know if that bothers you . . . .

http://tivoproduction.force.com/Support/apex/ContactTiVoSupport


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

This thread is about the loss of the ability to download purchased/rented videos from Amazon. Until recently Amazon offered the ability to download purchased and rented videos (not Prime) to TiVos and PCs for offline playback. That service was ended on 4/15 in favor of streaming instead.


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## LoraJ (Mar 7, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> Please explain: "I can't download anything on my PC or Roamio . . . ." Do you mean, you can't transfer downloads on your PC to your Roamio, on your Roamio to your PC, or ? If you instead mean that you can't get podcast videos to download automatically onto your TiVo set, as noted above, TiVo secretly and without any notice, warning or explanation removed that functionality last month.
> 
> Let TiVo know if that bothers you . . . .
> 
> http://tivoproduction.force.com/Support/apex/ContactTiVoSupport


I mean that there is no longer an option to download videos that I bought from Amazon to my PC or my Roamio. I saw lots of articles mentioning the Premiere TiVo but I can't find this option on my Roamio either. I thought I had read they were offering $100 off for people to buy a Roamio so they could download. I guess I misunderstood. I feel like I am the only person who is outraged about this.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Thanks, folks, I thought that the discussion was heading into the topic of downloads more generally.

In fact, $100 was being offered to get people onto the Roamio, as something of a concession, but not for downloading purposes, alas.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Downloading is gone. You can only stream now. Bothe the Premiere and the Roamio have access to the streaming app now, but it was exclusive to the Roamio for a while.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Is there anything anywhere that can be downloaded? I curious if the DVR's diagnostic for Transfer History option of Video Download can be used. It was a good test of my internet speed as seen by the TiVo. I could decide if the router QoS was helping or hurting. (It was usually hurting.)


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## b-ball-fanatic (Aug 5, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> ......as noted above, TiVo secretly and without any notice, warning or explanation removed that functionality last month.


I'm sympathetic to users who really liked that functionality....it always sucks when product features change in ways we don't like. Or _don't_ change in ways we wish they would/should/could. 

But I've seen you characterize this particular change this way ("secret," "without warning," etc) several times. How is it really different, though, from the way TiVo has _always _not communicated specific software changes? I've _never _gotten any kind of notice or warning about upcoming features changes I may or may not like. Or explanations afterwards.

You wake up, your TiVo has gotten a software update, and you live with the changes as you haphazardly stumble across them in the following weeks. (Or if it's a big update, you read about the "highlights" in Messages.)

Seems like this is just their way of doing things.....


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

b-ball-fanatic said:


> I'm sympathetic to users who really liked that functionality....it always sucks when product features change in ways we don't like. Or _don't_ change in ways we wish they would/should/could.
> 
> But I've seen you characterize this particular change this way ("secret," "without warning," etc) several times. How is it really different, though, from the way TiVo has _always _not communicated specific software changes? I've _never _gotten any kind of notice or warning about upcoming features changes I may or may not like. Or explanations afterwards.
> 
> ...


1. Just because TiVo's "always done it this way" doesn't make it right or a good way to treat customers in an on-going relationship. As the spin-meisters know, communication is a good thing and can make all the difference--stonewalling is not. How many times have I seen people here almost begging for TiVo to provide a word on a topic?

2. I keep on mentioning that the elimination of the Downloads Manager and related functionality was done secretly and without notice, warning or explanation because, well, it was done secretly and without notice, warning or explanation. And then handled in the most passive-aggressive of ways, when inquired about. ("Hello, yes, how can we be of service to you? Yes, that feature was eliminated. But you can send us an email! Have a _super_ day!")

3. The elimination of this feature is different from the change of many other features, it seems to me. For some people, this was a driving feature of the TiVo set, it was not a more cosmetic change or procedural change. For example, at least one corporate customer/user commented here of deciding against a purchase of a larger number of TiVo's, given the elimination of this feature.

Personally, I think that TiVo blew it, here. And its (non)public relations on this issue sucked and continues in that vein.

BTW, apart from that, I generally like my TiVo sets (plural).


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

TiVo really needs to allow users to stay on an old software version, which would require them to provide the list of changes made to each software version. As far as I am aware, every other software or app puts the decision to upgrade in the hands of the end user

I realize this wouldn't affect this specific Amazon download issue (since it was Amazon's decision), but it just seems like common sense.


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

Are we talking about two different downloads, Amazon and podcasts?

Did they disappear at the same time? If so maybe there's a underlying common explanation.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

telemark said:


> Are we talking about two different downloads, Amazon and podcasts?
> 
> Did they disappear at the same time? If so maybe there's a underlying common explanation.


3 things happen in the same time frame. 
Google killed the old YouTube app which was on anything older than Series 4 TiVos (and many other non-Tivo device including some of their own older Google TV devices).
Amazon killed downloads for all devices (not just TiVos).
TiVo killed Pod cast down loads for all TiVos.
I think all 3 are completely independent actions and have nothing to do with each other. The fact that all 3 happened in such a close time frame has amplified each and caused some confusion.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

pfiagra said:


> TiVo really needs to allow users to stay on an old software version, which would require them to provide the list of changes made to each software version. As far as I am aware, every other software or app puts the decision to upgrade in the hands of the end user
> 
> I realize this wouldn't affect this specific Amazon download issue (since it was Amazon's decision), but it just seems like common sense.


If they did that, they would have to keep supporting those old releases. That would be logistically difficult and very costly.

I don't know of any STB manufacturer that allows you to decline an update. DirecTV and Dish push new software, whether you like it or not. Verizon updates their VMS and other DVRs frequently, with no option to decline the update. While updates of legacy cable boxes are more infrequent, they still are pushed to the box, like it or not.


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

Diana Collins said:


> If they did that, they would have to keep supporting those old releases. That would be logistically difficult and very costly.
> 
> I don't know of any STB manufacturer that allows you to decline an update. DirecTV and Dish push new software, whether you like it or not. Verizon updates their VMS and other DVRs frequently, with no option to decline the update. While updates of legacy cable boxes are more infrequent, they still are pushed to the box, like it or not.


I wasn't specifically referring to STBs (my experience is only limited to TiVo). But in every other technology arena (PCs, cell phones, etc.), I have the choice of whether to upgrade the OS, app, or software. There will be consequences if I don't (lack of new features, security holes, unusable apps, etc.), but it would be my choice. In the TiVo instance, why not just leave download manager as-is. They don't need to actively support it, but the TiVo was sold with that feature.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

pfiagra said:


> In the TiVo instance, why not just leave download manager as-is.


Revenue generation? Eliminate free downloads and instead offer limited streaming avenues, for which inclusion TiVo gets paid?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Mikeguy said:


> Revenue generation? Eliminate free downloads and instead offer limited streaming avenues, for which inclusion TiVo gets paid?


I believe most sources are eliminating downloaded content in favor of streaming only. This was preemptive... That said, I am not a big fan of the replacement.

What we get is just another crappy HTML5 Opera app.

My hope is that TiVo implements it into OnePass. I don't mind streaming as a source, I just don't want to go into the third party app and look for content.


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## b-ball-fanatic (Aug 5, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> 1. Just because TiVo's "always done it this way" doesn't make it right or a good way to treat customers in an on-going relationship. As the spin-meisters know, communication is a good thing and can make all the difference--stonewalling is not. How many times have I seen people here almost begging for TiVo to provide a word on a topic?
> 
> 2. I keep on mentioning that the elimination of the Downloads Manager and related functionality was done secretly and without notice, warning or explanation because, well, it was done secretly and without notice, warning or explanation. And then handled in the most passive-aggressive of ways, when inquired about. ("Hello, yes, how can we be of service to you? Yes, that feature was eliminated. But you can send us an email! Have a _super_ day!")
> 
> ...


All great points, and I don't disagree. To be clear, I wasn't suggesting that "they always do it this way" is a justification or excuse. I think it's bad customer service on TiVo's part, but this appears to be the course they've chosen. 

I generally like my TiVos, too, and I have for many years. Unfortunately, I do have an uneasy sense that they're trending in directions (hardware, software...general business model) that are going to leave many of us longtime users frustrated and annoyed.


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

Diana Collins said:


> I don't know of any STB manufacturer that allows you to decline an update..


Those are all cable box types. Tivo is in a different position because we like to think we own our Tivo box, and their big selling point is more features, more control, more quality. At least two of those are violated when they do stuff like this.

There are also OTT boxes that updates can be turned off, and it can be argued we're talking about OTT features instead of DVR features.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

I want to represent those who don't care one iota about this. I hope I did a good job.

First don't care if something is streamed or downloaded. 2nd, anyone with an old Tivo that can't see a movie now well that is par for the course in tech. And 3rd, devices that let you watch Amazon movies are dirt cheap nowadays and built into every console, BR players and even many tvs.


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## b-ball-fanatic (Aug 5, 2003)

trip1eX said:


> I want to represent those who don't care one iota about this. I hope I did a good job.


Haha...well done. 



> First don't care if something is streamed or downloaded.


There _are _actually some differences in the viewing experience, but granted, if your equipment performs well, streaming vs. downloaded shouldn't "feel" like a huge difference. But I think there are some things that still make this a legitimate concern:

For purchased content, it's fair to want a copy of it. Having to rely on an active, working internet connection to view a movie or show that one supposedly owns is a new wrinkle that's bound to make many buyers uncomfortable.
Here's the one that really bothers _me_. As we move toward more and more streamed content, away from linear cable and downloaded content....and once we're accustomed to getting much of our viewing content that way....I fully expect cable companies to decide it's time to start enforcing their data limits. I think they're going to have us all buying data pans much like the cell carriers do, which means that simply re-watching a movie you supposedly "own" in the cloud will become an activity with an actual cost. I find that very troublesome....


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> 1. Just because TiVo's "always done it this way" doesn't make it right or a good way to treat customers in an on-going relationship. As the spin-meisters know, communication is a good thing and can make all the difference--stonewalling is not. How many times have I seen people here almost begging for TiVo to provide a word on a topic?
> 
> 2. I keep on mentioning that the elimination of the Downloads Manager and related functionality was done secretly and without notice, warning or explanation because, well, it was done secretly and without notice, warning or explanation. And then handled in the most passive-aggressive of ways, when inquired about. ("Hello, yes, how can we be of service to you? Yes, that feature was eliminated. But you can send us an email! Have a _super_ day!")
> 
> ...


I got some emails. Don't remember who but it was either from Amazon or TiVo or both that told me what was coming.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

b-ball-fanatic said:


> Haha...well done.
> 
> There _are _actually some differences in the viewing experience, but granted, if your equipment performs well, streaming vs. downloaded shouldn't "feel" like a huge difference. But I think there are some things that still make this a legitimate concern:
> 
> ...


FIOS seems to have recently started enforcing a 7TB or 10TB cap. Which is very good when compared to the several hundred gigabyte caps other providers have.


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