# DRM - This thread is devoted to defeating and destroying DRM on Tivo et. al.



## Andyistic (Sep 25, 2009)

Digital Rights Management is a bad idea.

Let's face it - it was a bad idea since its conception.
All it's doing at this point is preventing us loyal Tivo users
from saving our favorite cable programs and sharing them across other Tivo units. It also causes stupid HDMI errors which shouldn't exist.

DRM does not prevent us from copying DVD's or music CD's.
Yes, it's supposed to, but it doesn't.
Windows Vista/Windows 7 is supposed to be armed up the
wazoo with DRM "features". None of it prevent us from doing what we do.

Like the War On Drugs, this is another failed campaign.
Why continue to push it onto us? We do not want it.

Let's work together to rid the world of this evil DRM nonsense
and get back to the freedom of enjoying digital television without being crippled.

Thank you!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Unfortunately TiVo is bound by the rules of CableLabs. And CableLabs gets pressure from the MPAA and other content providers to impose DRM. So really until the MPAA/content providers come to the conclusion that DRM is unnecessary there is really nothing TiVo can do. Other then creating some sort of streaming protocol, rather then the copy routine used by MRV right now, which would allow them to side step the copy once flag.

Dan


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> Other then creating some sort of streaming protocol, rather then the copy routine used by MRV right now, which would allow them to side step the copy once flag.


^^^ this

The only way to solve the issue is to redesign the features that are being impacted by DRM (i.e. MRV) so that they are no longer affected by it. There's numerous other advantages to streaming; I wish Tivo would just get it done.

As an aside, does this DRM actually accomplish anything? Can't a person take the hard drive out of a Tivo and trivially copy the recorded programming from it?

Like most DRM, it merely serves the purpose to prevent valid use by honest users, while doing little to prevent actual piracy.


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## Andyistic (Sep 25, 2009)

smbaker said:


> ^^^ this
> As an aside, does this DRM actually accomplish anything? Can't a person take the hard drive out of a Tivo and trivially copy the recorded programming from it?


Theoretically, this can be done, and I'm sure it is being done in some corners of the underworld.
It is being done with DishNetwork DVR's in the form of DishRip,
so this could also be done to Tivo DVR's as well.

I removed the internal drive on my DishNetwork DVR and reconnected it through an external drive bay. This lets me unplug the drive and plug it into the PC machine with the same type of drive bay interface, making copying a trivial matter.
Eventually, this method will also be performed on the Tivo once someone is able to lay out the groundwork for decoding the files on the Tivo drive.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

Streaming only helps MRV. What about TTG?


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

http://www.defectivebydesign.org/


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Andyistic said:


> Theoretically, this can be done, and I'm sure it is being done in some corners of the underworld.
> It is being done with DishNetwork DVR's in the form of DishRip,
> so this could also be done to Tivo DVR's as well.
> 
> ...


the easier thing is to hack the TiVo so it ignores the CCI bit and also stop encrypting shows, since you are changing things anyway. You do have to do a hardware mod for a PROM chip though it may involve more on the Premiere and not be possible there yet.
Any more details beyond that are beyond the bounds of what the forum owners want discussed here.

One fruitful path is to lobby the FCC about how cable companies are misusing the CCI flag. TiVo is tyring to have the FCC limit cable labs to simply certifying hardware like its original conception intended;. In this way TiVo can keep using cable cards but not be bound to follow the CCI flag

However any further detail


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

smbaker said:


> As an aside, does this DRM actually accomplish anything? Can't a person take the hard drive out of a Tivo and trivially copy the recorded programming from it?


Not that I know of, EXCEPT for copying from one drive to another during drive upgrade processes.

In other words, I don't know of anyone having tools to let you hook a Tivo drive up to a computer and get individual shows directly from the Tivo drive to the computer drive. I *wish* that existed, because I'd likely use it often INSTEAD of MRV, since presumably it would be much much faster (even worth the ~6 minutes or so it takes a S3 or TivoHD to reboot.)


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

mattack said:


> In other words, I don't know of anyone having tools to let you hook a Tivo drive up to a computer and get individual shows directly from the Tivo drive to the computer drive.


I thought there was something that did this, but perhaps I misunderstood. I've never really had a need to copy anything from the Tivo to the computer before, so it's not something I've actively been looking for.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

smbaker said:


> I thought there was something that did this, but perhaps I misunderstood. I've never really had a need to copy anything from the Tivo to the computer before, so it's not something I've actively been looking for.


There's "a site which may not be named here", and one might go there and look for words like "extraction", at which point one would soon learn that theoretically possible does not neccessarily imply trivial.


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## StuffOfInterest (Jul 18, 2007)

TTG's CCI issue may be resolved if AllVid comes about. One of the proposals for AllVid is to use DTCP for secure transmission. A feature of DTCP is moving content from one device to another. This is not a copy but a relocate operation, so it would not violate the CCI "copy once" restriction. If you relocate the recording to another device it will no longer exist on the original device so there will still only be one copy out there.

Also, with AllVid, the MRV issue may be helped. A TiVo can act as both an AllVid receiving device and an AllVid gateway. This would make it a whole home DVR. To record a show the TiVo will act as a receiving device just like any AllVid capable TV. To watch a show the TV will see the TiVo the same as the MVPDs AllVid gateway. Any programming on the TiVo will look like OnDemand content. With this the TiVo is no longer bound to one television but is available to every AllVid capable TV in the house.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

StuffOfInterest said:


> TTG's CCI issue may be resolved if AllVid comes about. One of the proposals for AllVid is to use DTCP for secure transmission. A feature of DTCP is moving content from one device to another. This is not a copy but a relocate operation, so it would not violate the CCI "copy once" restriction. If you relocate the recording to another device it will no longer exist on the original device so there will still only be one copy out there.
> 
> Also, with AllVid, the MRV issue may be helped. A TiVo can act as both an AllVid receiving device and an AllVid gateway. This would make it a whole home DVR. To record a show the TiVo will act as a receiving device just like any AllVid capable TV. To watch a show the TV will see the TiVo the same as the MVPDs AllVid gateway. Any programming on the TiVo will look like OnDemand content. With this the TiVo is no longer bound to one television but is available to every AllVid capable TV in the house.


Sounds great except when is all this going to happen? There was a song that I think gives us a hint; it went like this:

*In the year 2525 if man is still alive, If woman can survive, They may find...*​


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

atmuscarella said:


> Sounds great except when is all this going to happen? There was a song that I think gives us a hint; it went like this:
> 
> *In the year 2525 if man is still alive, If woman can survive, They may find...*​


Somewhere in the late '70s I was in a recording studio in Richmond, and there was a kid there (I think he said he ws from Raleigh) wearing a T-shirt that referred to a band he had been in, Zaeger, Wall, and Evans.

He had never heard of Zaeger and Evans, or that song.

Sic Transit Gloria Mundi.


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## Andyistic (Sep 25, 2009)

We need a virus that spreads from Tivo box to Tivo box all across the Internet.
It's only effect (besides to spread) would be to disable all DRM implementations.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Andyistic said:


> We need a virus that spreads from Tivo box to Tivo box all across the Internet.
> It's only effect (besides to spread) would be to disable all DRM implementations.


(Un)fortunately security is the one thing the Tivo programmers seem to be good at (although it did take all the way until the S4 to get it right). The box is pretty well locked down. Even if a virus could take hold in a Tivo, then it would probably be detected during the signature check on boot.

My windows 7 box, on the other hand, even if you get over the hurdle of detecting a virus in the first place, they can be a real pain to clean back out.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

I think it's going to have to be a hardware fix, unless some enterprising fellow finds out how to "jailbreak" the TiVo so that code can be executed that bypasses the CCI check. Maybe when the TiVo gets to the same saturation point of popular phones...


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

unitron said:


> There's "a site which may not be named here", and one might go there and look for words like "extraction", at which point one would soon learn that theoretically possible does not neccessarily imply trivial.


Yep. But with tools there (that work with older TiVo models) you can FTP the files to your PC and then process them into mpegs playable on the PC. Since the Tivo is no longer muxing the video and sound back together and it is just a straight FTP then it is fast enough to not worry about taking the drive out of the TiVo.

and really on the new TiVo models TTG is fast enough as well - the only hassle is the CCI flag which prevents some form transferring the file. I assume the OP was thinking that with just the hard drive then the CCI flag can be ignored but perhaps did not know that shows are stored on the TiVo in a proprietary format and encrypted that makes just copying the file not even close to what is needed as you noted with the 'not trivial' statement.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Yep. But with tools there (that work with older TiVo models) you can FTP the files to your PC and then process them into mpegs playable on the PC. Since the Tivo is no longer muxing the video and sound back together and it is just a straight FTP then it is fast enough to not worry about taking the drive out of the TiVo.
> 
> and really on the new TiVo models TTG is fast enough as well - the only hassle is the CCI flag which prevents some form transferring the file. I assume the OP was thinking that with just the hard drive then the CCI flag can be ignored but perhaps did not know that shows are stored on the TiVo in a proprietary format and encrypted that makes just copying the file not even close to what is needed as you noted with the 'not trivial' statement.


Yeah, but in order to deal with that particular data base of extraction info one needs a lot more linux-fu than is neccessary to just do tricks with the MFS Live CD and others.

That's a big part of the "non-trivial", at least for me.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Yep. But with tools there (that work with older TiVo models) you can FTP the files to your PC and then process them into mpegs playable on the PC. Since the Tivo is no longer muxing the video and sound back together and it is just a straight FTP then it is fast enough to not worry about taking the drive out of the TiVo.
> 
> and really on the new TiVo models TTG is fast enough as well


Do you mean only the Premiere by that statement? I think I'm relatively patient wrt this, but I would definitely not call TTG "fast enough".

I should actually look up the info about the ftp tools. Now that I actually have my Tivos hooked to the network (including my S1 via the card), I've wondered about ftping off some of the old recordings I kept (much of the same stuff I record for keeps too -- but these ones are much older musical performances from talk shows).


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## johnd01 (Dec 17, 2002)

orangeboy said:


> Streaming only helps MRV. What about TTG?


What is TTG?


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## Andyistic (Sep 25, 2009)

Tivo To Go


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## johnd01 (Dec 17, 2002)

Andyistic said:


> Tivo To Go


Thank you.
Is that the same as Tivo desk top pulse?


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## Andyistic (Sep 25, 2009)

johnd01 said:


> Thank you.
> Is that the same as Tivo desk top plus?


It's where you transfer programs from the Tivo to external devices,
such as computer, iPods, cell phones, etc.
Desktop Plus is one such program which can do this, but not the only one.


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## johnd01 (Dec 17, 2002)

Is it practical to use TTG as a media server. Say a laptop with 4 to 8 TB to make your own video library?


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## lafos (Nov 8, 2004)

johnd01 said:


> Is it practical to use TTG as a media server. Say a laptop with 4 to 8 TB to make your own video library?


That would be a heavy laptop.

There are some people that use PCs for this or home servers, running Windows Home Server. I use a WHS box to archive some shows as well as my movie library.


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## Andyistic (Sep 25, 2009)

lafos said:


> That would be a heavy laptop.
> 
> There are some people that use PCs for this or home servers, running Windows Home Server. I use a WHS box to archive some shows as well as my movie library.


Hey, don't stop there. Get a laptop with a 20-drive server rack and full fault tolerance, and multihomed networking!


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## johnd01 (Dec 17, 2002)

Andyistic said:


> Hey, don't stop there. Get a laptop with a 20-drive server rack and full fault tolerance, and multihomed networking!


I have a laptop with windows 7 and 500 GB internal... I also have 2 BlacX with 2 2TB drives each. Not fast but it is faster than TIVO.
I have been running tivo desktop and have mounted one 2 TB drive on my documents folder so tivo will be using the usb.

So far I have not tried to create a big drive of all the 2TB drives... I do not know how to make tivo desk top (TDT) access more than one drive.

I us a laptop because have one and it is very power efficient.
TDT does not seem to be much of a load.

My network is router with a Gigabit switch connected to an other gigabit switch.
One tivo is connected to the first switch and the second switch supports my other tivo and my laptop.

It seems to work most of time but stalls out and does not transfer the shows.

I talked with tivo support and they said they do not support switchers.
I ask if I should replace them with hubs and then he siad we do not support hubs. I was so shocked that I did not take it any farther than that. 
If you do not support hubs what kind of networking do you do?

What kinds of problems should I expect to run into with this project?


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## johnd01 (Dec 17, 2002)

johnd01 said:


> I have a laptop with windows 7 and 500 GB internal... I also have 2 BlacX with 2 2TB drives each. Not fast but it is faster than TIVO.
> I have been running tivo desktop and have mounted one 2 TB drive on my documents folder so tivo will be using the usb.
> 
> So far I have not tried to create a big drive of all the 2TB drives... I do not know how to make tivo desk top (TDT) access more than one drive.
> ...


Is there a better program than TDT I should look into?


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## Andyistic (Sep 25, 2009)

I have two Tivos (S3+S4) and two desktops.
All four of those units share the same network, so each one can see and use the others.
The only thing preventing this from working to its full potential is DRM.
Once we rid ourselves of that evil, then all files will be accessible.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

johnd01 said:


> I do not know how to make tivo desk top (TDT) access more than one drive.


In Tivo Desktop, select Share Music, Photos, and Video on the left.
Select the Video tab then select Add Video.
Point to the hard drive you want to share and hit Add at the bottom. (See screen shot below).
This should add a shortcut path to the hard drive in your My Tivo Recordings folder and you can access it from the Tivo.

What also works (or did for me) is to create a shortcut to the hard drive on your computer desktop and simply move it to your My Tivo Recordings folder.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

StuffOfInterest said:


> TTG's CCI issue may be resolved if AllVid comes about. One of the proposals for AllVid is to use DTCP for secure transmission. A feature of DTCP is moving content from one device to another. This is not a copy but a relocate operation, so it would not violate the CCI "copy once" restriction. If you relocate the recording to another device it will no longer exist on the original device so there will still only be one copy out there.
> ....


If you think that is the resolution needed then there isn't any problem today.

There's no need for AllVid and DTCP. The current cable rules completely call out that MOVE is permitted- lookup the DFAST license agreement on cablelabs website. It's in there CLEAR as day that move is allowed. It's been there since the day tivo signed the license and pushed the original S3 out the door years ago. (or at least from the time they added MRV to the S3's and forcing me to read the license to learn about CCI bits)

Tivo is just too stupid/lazy/overwhelmed/whatever to bother making the logically simple changes to MRV to make it MOVE instead of Copy. I have no idea how much programming would be involved- not my thang- but I'm pretty sure it's not the same amount of effort as the Manhattan Project.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> If you think that is the resolution needed then there isn't any problem today.
> 
> There's no need for AllVid and DTCP. The current cable rules completely call out that MOVE is permitted- lookup the DFAST license agreement on cablelabs website. It's in there CLEAR as day that move is allowed. It's been there since the day tivo signed the license and pushed the original S3 out the door years ago. (or at least from the time they added MRV to the S3's and forcing me to read the license to learn about CCI bits)
> 
> Tivo is just too stupid/lazy/overwhelmed/whatever to bother making the logically simple changes to MRV to make it MOVE instead of Copy. I have no idea how much programming would be involved- not my thang- but I'm pretty sure it's not the same amount of effort as the Manhattan Project.


The poster you quoted was referring to TTG, not MRV. I think that (TTG) is the biggest stumbling block TiVo has regarding changing the code from "copy" to "move". As seen with the tivodecode application, the current efforts by TiVo to protect content doesn't address the current rules...


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

I just wish they'd change MRV to preserve the orginal info on what date and time something was recorded, and off of what channel.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

orangeboy said:


> The poster you quoted was referring to TTG, not MRV. I think that (TTG) is the biggest stumbling block TiVo has regarding changing the code from "copy" to "move". As seen with the tivodecode application, the current efforts by TiVo to protect content doesn't address the current rules...


yep- There's a bunch of these threads going on- I thought i already mentioned that- the current "protection" on pc's is laughable. Tivo needs to really redo that to get move to pc to be possible. But that's not impossible- to make it secure enough to keep cable happy- see media center pc's.

But if tivo can't muster the effort to get move working for MRV then they're certainly not going to spend that much more difficult effort to secure the tivo-> PC link.

Either way though- it's in Tivo's court- they could do it now if they wanted to. (tivo could get a new secure storage method approved for PC's, or use one that is already approved- if i recall Real media and someone else got a couple alternatives approved YEARS ago. Windows media DRM is probably on the list from media center pc's. And perhaps DTCP is approved today by cable- I haven't looked up the approved methods lately)


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## johnd01 (Dec 17, 2002)

MichaelK said:


> If you think that is the resolution needed then there isn't any problem today.
> 
> There's no need for AllVid and DTCP. The current cable rules completely call out that MOVE is permitted- lookup the DFAST license agreement on cablelabs website. It's in there CLEAR as day that move is allowed. It's been there since the day tivo signed the license and pushed the original S3 out the door years ago. (or at least from the time they added MRV to the S3's and forcing me to read the license to learn about CCI bits)
> 
> Tivo is just too stupid/lazy/overwhelmed/whatever to bother making the logically simple changes to MRV to make it MOVE instead of Copy. I have no idea how much programming would be involved- not my thang- but I'm pretty sure it's not the same amount of effort as the Manhattan Project.


If the protection bits are set they only need to remove the original after the copy is made but before the copy is place in the destination index. That should not be very hard to do.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

unitron said:


> I just wish they'd change MRV to preserve the orginal info on what date and time something was recorded, and off of what channel.


I just MRV'ed some recordings from my Series 3 to my new Premiere, and it did preserve the original info... it shows the original recording date as well as channel it aired on.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Fofer said:


> I just MRV'ed some recordings from my Series 3 to my new Premiere, and it did preserve the original info... it shows the original recording date as well as channel it aired on.


Well, I just moved, via MRV, hours and hours and hours worth of shows from one 500GB (up from original 80) S2 SA DT to another and back to the first after putting in 2 1TB drives (You wouldn't believe how fast mom filled up that 500), and now the record date is the date I copied them from the first deck to the second, so I've got a Dr. Oz folder with like 100 shows, all with the same date, and another "The Doctors" folder the same way, not to mention various and sundry PBS offerings and some network stuff.

Of course the interesting thing about doing backup -f 9999 | restore is that you get the now playing list, but not the programs in it. It copies the table of contents, but not the contents.

So I wound up going through the listings, copying the original info onto pages and pages of legal pad, deleting the phantom shows and then transferring them back from the second machine.

Sure do wish someone more knowledgeable than I had written an MFS version of Partition Magic, so you could just copy partitions to a bigger drive and then expand them.

Okay, self-pitying rant over for now. : - )


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

unitron said:


> Sure do wish someone more knowledgeable than I had written an MFS version of Partition Magic, so you could just copy partitions to a bigger drive and then expand them.
> 
> Okay, self-pitying rant over for now. : - )


not sure what exactly you did wrong but the last upgrade I did I used the params for full copy and all shows and everything were on the larger drive with correct info. Does winmfs treat a full copy as different in some way than the old UNIX cmd line one?


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## lasitter (Oct 27, 2010)

I have a Premier XL but I'm trying to view movie content in another way.

I have a 2TB drive with movie files in an external cabinet that can be connected via eSata, FW400, F800 and USB.

I've tried attaching this to a variety of devices with limited success in terms of basic playback and no luck with use of title / root menus and bonus content.

My LG 32LD550 advertises USB playback of VOB files but can't even get the picture aspect ratio right.

Three different Blu-Ray players with USB ports can't access / use VOB content on USB sticks or devices.

My latest attempt is with the Sony Network Media Player SMP-N100, which will do basic playback of movie files but does not know what to do with menus or subtitles. 

I had actually done a pre-sale tech support call to check on the functionality I wanted, and then after it got here worked with 1st level tech support, who also thought it should work, before the 2nd level techs said it wouldn't really work.

So here's my big question: Other than playing back via HDMI port on a computer directly into the TV set, is there ANY OTHER Blu-Ray player or other device that you can connect to externally (USB/FW/eSata, etc.) and gain access to menus, subtitles, etc?


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## Andyistic (Sep 25, 2009)

In order to watch protected VOB files, the player will need to locate a decryption code in a special location on the DVD disk. USB devices like memory sticks and external hard drives to not have such a location as they are not DVD disks. Hence, playback of such protected VOB's will fail. Now if your VOB's are clear (not encrypted), then playback should be possible if the player has the necessary codecs.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

The wdtv live plus player will handle sets of ripped dvds on a usb drive. Also mp4 files with ac3 same as tivo.


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## DocNo (Oct 10, 2001)

MichaelK said:


> But if tivo can't muster the effort to get move working for MRV then they're certainly not going to spend that much more difficult effort to secure the tivo-> PC link.


You do realize that the content producers and the cable companies are HUGE, that Tivo is still struggling to survive and remain relevant and that the FCC, Library of Congress and other government regulatory entities have been lukewarm in protecting the consumers rights on things like copyright and DRM vs. the content producers?

You do realize that the cable companies have been fighting cable card tooth and nail and only finally grudgingly supported it after being sued multiple times?



> Either way though- it's in Tivo's court- they could do it now if they wanted to.


Apparently you don't.

You are absolutely right - what you, and others, want in this thread is from a technical standpoint trivial. So what we are left with is policy and politics 

Personally, I have cancelled about half of my season passes since Netflix now has the majority of the shows I am interested in available for streaming without commercials. I am going to make one last pass at Comcast to see if they will drop my cable bill to something more reasonable, if not I'm canceling. I will pick up over the air the few things I can't get from Netflix, or pick up DVD's after the fact or just go without.

I never really wanted Tivo. Tivo was a great solution to a real problem when it came out: how do I get my shows, when I want them, with minimal or no commercials. With the advent of streaming and content on demand, Tivo is less relevant. They probably aren't in any danger for the next year or two - these trends play out pretty slowly - but there is no doubt their days as a DVR provider are numbered. And that's a good thing! Scraping content off of the air or cableways was always a mediocre compromise. Especially with the networks and cable companies screwing around with start and stop times as well as show lengths to try to trip DVRs up. Yup, there's customer service - instead of giving people what they want try to screw them even more 

I wasn't too keen on streaming at first, but the more I think about it if the prices, like Netflix, are reasonable, it's crazy to not do it like that. I have a Windows Home Server as well as three Tivo's - I can pay for Netflix and Hulu Plus just in the power savings of turning all of that equipment off! Never mind the acquisition costs for all that equipment, maintenance and replacement of failing parts, Tivo Subscriptions, etc... No wonder DVRs and home servers haven't taken off - it truly is a solution only a real geek could love. Personally I'd rather geek out over photography or any other number of hobbies. It's been a fun ride, but I can now honestly say I won't miss Tivo. It was a good and loyal servant and filled a pretty good need at the time, but technology is marching on. Just look at the stand alone MP3 market - smart phones, iPod Touches, iPads, Android tablets - the relevance of a dedicated music player is slowly waining as well. They aren't going away, but they certainly are the exception rather than the rule.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> not sure what exactly you did wrong but the last upgrade I did I used the params for full copy and all shows and everything were on the larger drive with correct info. Does winmfs treat a full copy as different in some way than the old UNIX cmd line one?


Take an 80GB TiVo drive. Upgrade to a 500GB. You now have all of the partitions that TiVo will allow on one drive.

You can replace the 500GB with a 1TB, but you'll only be able to use half of it if you copy everything from the 500GB, no matter whose software you use to do the job because of the partition number limit.

If you go straight from the 80GB to the 1TB you will be able to use all of the 1TB because the third MFS pair will be larger, but that doesn't preserve the shows on the 500GB.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

unitron said:


> Take an 80GB TiVo drive. Upgrade to a 500GB. You now have all of the partitions that TiVo will allow on one drive.
> 
> You can replace the 500GB with a 1TB, but you'll only be able to use half of it if you copy everything from the 500GB, no matter whose software you use to do the job because of the partition number limit.
> 
> If you go straight from the 80GB to the 1TB you will be able to use all of the 1TB because the third MFS pair will be larger, but that doesn't preserve the shows on the 500GB.


ah. Missed the two drive thing in your initial post. read too fast.  TiVo has a prorietary format so it would be as you say, someone would have to write a full partition magic to allow for intermediate drives. The approach you took would be what anyone would have to do currently. aplogies for the oversight in my post


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> ah. Missed the two drive thing in your initial post. read too fast.  TiVo has a prorietary format so it would be as you say, someone would have to write a full partition magic to allow for intermediate drives. The approach you took would be what anyone would have to do currently. aplogies for the oversight in my post


For the benefit of future readers, when you say "two drive thing", I presume you mean "upgrading drive size in a single drive machine for the second time", which is, of course, what I did, and why I hit the partition limit before I hit the size limit, mostly due to budget limit. : - )


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

unitron said:


> For the benefit of future readers, when you say "two drive thing", I presume you mean "upgrading drive size in a single drive machine for the second time", which is, of course, what I did, and why I hit the partition limit before I hit the size limit, mostly due to budget limit. : - )


correct. you can only upgrade from the original to one drive. Best to make it count.

Now you can do this
origonal 80G to 500G and use 500G
then original 80G to 1TB and start using that but of course anything on the 500G is now orphaned.


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## billyecho (Sep 17, 2001)

Since TWC did a hatchet job on MRV, except for local ota, is there a work around using TTG to convert to mpeg2 for DLNA compliant devices? 

Would the Sony BD/Internet Video player stream the tivo converted files saved to the PC?


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## JWThiers (Apr 13, 2005)

billyecho said:


> Since TWC did a hatchet job on MRV, except for local ota, is there a work around using TTG to convert to mpeg2 for DLNA compliant devices?
> 
> Would the Sony BD/Internet Video player stream the tivo converted files saved to the PC?


Not with out hacking your tivo to ignore the CCI flag. But we can't go into more detail here. And if you do that hack you will be able to MRV to your hearts content.


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## HiJon89 (Jan 26, 2011)

JWThiers said:


> Not with out hacking your tivo to ignore the CCI flag. But we can't go into more detail here. And if you do that hack you will be able to MRV to your hearts content.


Yeah, the only possible way would be to make the TiVo ignore CCI flags and record shows unencrypted. Once the TiVo encrypts a recording, even if you take out the HD and copy the recording to your computer it will be unwatchable. Assuming they use an encryption scheme comparable to the PlayReady DRM used on Windows 7 recordings (to get CableLabs certified they probably would) the encryption is unbreakable in the foreseeable future.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Really? You mean the contenct owners and comcast are bigger than tivo? I never realized that. 

and oh wait- tivo doesn't do the trivial ability for more complex reasons- golly I'm amazed! 

But seriously though- no one else has any significant trouble with MRV via streaming. Tivo could stream. Tivo could MOVE. I dont personally think it's because the content people care. Maybe you do. I dont.

I could see arguing that tivo wont move to a PC becasue of politics et al, but moving from one tivo to another really doesn't seem to be that it would piss off HBO or whomever...



DocNo said:


> You do realize that the content producers and the cable companies are HUGE, that Tivo is still struggling to survive and remain relevant and that the FCC, Library of Congress and other government regulatory entities have been lukewarm in protecting the consumers rights on things like copyright and DRM vs. the content producers?
> 
> You do realize that the cable companies have been fighting cable card tooth and nail and only finally grudgingly supported it after being sued multiple times?
> 
> ...


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