# Streaming TiVo to Ipad? Will it happen.



## tombonneau (Mar 26, 2009)

So I'm sure some of you read this recent Engadget post.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/09/hulu-plus-on-tivo-apparently-being-tested-live-streaming-to-ipa/

What are the odds of this actually happening? Are there any significant technical hurdles, or is it basically same thing as streaming to PCs?


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

I wish.

Tivo should also just make a TiVo Extender without cablecard to other TV within our own house.


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## h2oskierc (Dec 16, 2010)

MediaLivingRoom said:


> Tivo should also just make a TiVo Extender without cablecard to other TV within our own house.


I'm on board with that. Right now I have to transfer to DVD using my computer, huge PITA.


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## NotVeryWitty (Oct 3, 2003)

tombonneau said:


> What are the odds of this actually happening? Are there any significant technical hurdles, or is it basically same thing as streaming to PCs?


Someone should correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there's a very big hurdle to overcome. The iPad's native video format is H.264 (mpeg4), and most (all?) shows recorded by the Tivo are mpeg2. I don't think either the Tivo or the iPad have enough horsepower to do on-the-fly transcoding of mpeg2 to H.264, to allow streaming (at least for HD).

Hopefully I'm wrong about this, because this would be a killer app. I've been considering getting a Sling box so I could watch my Tivo shows from bed, but I don't want to mess with IR blasters, and Sling doesn't support Tivo's network control interface.


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## DeWitt (Jun 30, 2004)

I never saw the attraction of being able to stream to my iPad. Basically since it is in home only I wouldn't find it useful. At home I have larger higher quality screens than that on the iPad to view. 

Now, when I am mobile, that is a completely different issue. I do use KMTTG and iTunes to move content to my iPad for watching on the train etc.


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

DeWitt said:


> I never saw the attraction of being able to stream to my iPad. Basically since it is in home only I wouldn't find it useful. At home I have larger higher quality screens than that on the iPad to view.
> 
> Now, when I am mobile, that is a completely different issue. I do use KMTTG and iTunes to move content to my iPad for watching on the train etc.


I agree with you. But does an iPad have any HiDef outputs you could use to connect to a big screen TV?


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## smoothtivo (Apr 26, 2004)

Right now I am using the monsoon vulkano to stream my TiVo to my iPad. So far I am ipressed with it. It only set me back 99 bucks. It's basically like a sling box but can record via a dvr feature. Anything I have recorded to the vulkano I can upload to the iPad with the vulkano iPad app and watch it on the go.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

janry said:


> I agree with you. But does an iPad have any HiDef outputs you could use to connect to a big screen TV?


It appears it does (cables sold separately): http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

I wish to take that survey! Is there a place I can find it, or do you have to be invited?


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## DeWitt (Jun 30, 2004)

janry said:


> I agree with you. But does an iPad have any HiDef outputs you could use to connect to a big screen TV?


I can use airplay to my Apple TV to play. I don't use this for everything, but when you find a video while surfing the web it is pretty neat to be able to wirelessly stream it to your TV/Audio system.

I have the newer Apple TV that was only 99 Dollars.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

DeWitt said:


> I can use airplay to my Apple TV to play. I don't use this for everything, but when you find a video while surfing the web it is pretty neat to be able to wirelessly stream it to your TV/Audio system.
> 
> I have the newer Apple TV that was only 99 Dollars.


This cable is only $39, and provides an HDMI output for the iPad: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC953ZM/A
I think this would be the easiest setup if the sole purpose would be streaming from a TiVo in one room to the iPad attached to a TV in another.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

tombonneau said:


> So I'm sure some of you read this recent Engadget post.
> What are the odds of this actually happening?


EXTREMELY low. Besides, they would do MUCH MUCH better to simply add the ability to stream to/from to *any* device using something like DLNA instead of locking it to one proprietary product.

But, that would cut into their precious subscriptions, since they can hold people ransom with only TiVo to TiVo streaming.

So, as I said.... EXTREMELY low.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

NotVeryWitty said:


> Someone should correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there's a very big hurdle to overcome. The iPad's native video format is H.264 (mpeg4), and most (all?) shows recorded by the Tivo are mpeg2. I don't think either the Tivo or the iPad have enough horsepower to do on-the-fly transcoding of mpeg2 to H.264, to allow streaming (at least for HD).


You are correct but not for that exact reason. There is no such thing as a "video format". There is a video container and a video codec (and an audio codec). Mpeg4 is not a codec, it is a container that uses H.264 video and AAC audio. I would be surprised if the iPad couldn't play the mpeg2 codec. Although it might not like AC3.....

Transcoding from one codec to another is something that simply cannot occur on the TiVo (nor iPad).... it requires hundreds of times more CPU power than available (HD programs are truly massive). So streaming could only occur in the native codecs from the TiVo (although you can sometimes change the CONTAINER they are in without much CPU overhead). If the destination device can't handle it, it is the end of the game. In the case of the iPad, although it can probably play the mpeg2 video codec, there is probably no way it can handle/play it at 1080i resolution and typical HDTV bitrates. Plus it might barf on the AC3 audio codec.

Edit:
http://www.ifunia.com/ipad-column/ipad-supported-video-and-audio-formats.html

The iPad doesn't have a decoder for Mpeg2 codec nor AC3. So no, it could never support TiVo streaming. The end.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

shaown said:


> Or a Tivo Extender with cablecard support - but no monthly Tivo fee.


No such thing. Cablecards are issued and managed by your cable company. They have nothing to do with devices not directly attached to cable.


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## mishafp (Nov 8, 2006)

Sling Media better hope not- they'd lose half their business overnight (assuming the streaming would be to any computer, not just Ipad).


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## tombonneau (Mar 26, 2009)

crxssi said:


> EXTREMELY low. Besides, they would do MUCH MUCH better to simply add the ability to stream to/from to *any* device using something like DLNA instead of locking it to one proprietary product.
> 
> But, that would cut into their precious subscriptions, since they can hold people ransom with only TiVo to TiVo streaming.
> 
> So, as I said.... EXTREMELY low.


Yeah I'm not holding my breath based on Tivo's track record. I have more faith Sezmi will deliver a streaming DVR-to-iDevice functionality before Tivo.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

tombonneau said:


> Yeah I'm not holding my breath based on Tivo's track record. I have more faith Sezmi will deliver a streaming DVR-to-iDevice functionality before Tivo.


Not sure what a Sezmi is, but see my other post- the iDevices have no mpeg2 decoder hardware, so streaming from a TiVo to an ipad can never happen.


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## deandashl (Aug 8, 2008)

Can it happen, easily.

Will it happen?

Probably not.

Unless, it was already in the pipeline.

With the way things are going.......


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

I suppose an independent person can do it.

Just integrate in TiVoDecode and stuff like that. 

Not sure about MPEG-2 support, but I believe there have been several video players for the iPad that support MPEG-2, so standard def video at a minimum should be playable... your 1080i with Dolby Digital will probably have issues.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

deandashl said:


> Can it happen, easily.


When the iPad has no mpeg2 or AC3 decoder hardware or software and neither box has dedicated transcoding ASICs, what part of it would be possible or "easy"?


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## tombonneau (Mar 26, 2009)

crxssi said:


> Not sure what a Sezmi is, but see my other post- the iDevices have no mpeg2 decoder hardware, so streaming from a TiVo to an ipad can never happen.


Sezmi is an OTA DVR that in it's first iteration has come out of the gate with a better HD UI than Tivo has in 10+ years. Their CEO claims they are looking into streaming to devices, and my point is I have more faith in a start-up making this happen sooner than Tivo. And I don't think the chances are high Sezmi will ever do it.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

crxssi said:


> When the iPad has no mpeg2 or AC3 decoder hardware or software and neither box has dedicated transcoding ASICs, what part of it would be possible or "easy"?


Well, the part where one ports an MPEG2 software decoder to the iPad. Even with no hardware acceleration, it could at least do SD.


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## Quake97 (Apr 24, 2006)

It'll happen... February 30, 2012.

Joe


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I use air-video to stream mpeg2 movies from my server to my ipad all the time... The combination does the conversion just fine - so I would not say that it is impossible, it just might need to use a PC based engine that could be deployed with TiVo Desktop.

http://www.inmethod.com/air-video/index.html


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

wmcbrine said:


> Well, the part where one ports an MPEG2 software decoder to the iPad. Even with no hardware acceleration, it could at least do SD.


I thought about that already. But I don't see a huge value in that. I don't know about you, but my TiVo recordings are about 95% HD. Plus, I imagine it would really eat up the battery on the portable device, having to decode and display high-bitrate SD content.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

bradleys said:


> I use air-video to stream mpeg2 movies from my server to my ipad all the time... The combination does the conversion just fine - so I would not say that it is impossible, it just might need to use a [desktop computer] based engine that could be deployed with TiVo Desktop.


Although certainly possible, that is not streaming from a TiVo, it is streaming from a desktop computer which is transcoding the video.


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## MrSkippy53 (Jan 27, 2011)

janry said:


> I agree with you. But does an iPad have any HiDef outputs you could use to connect to a big screen TV?


iPad No iPad2 will have hdmi out


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## MrSkippy53 (Jan 27, 2011)

And you can get composite video out of IPad, iPod touch, and iPhone. Jailbreak and use TVout app from Cydia...


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

MrSkippy53 said:


> And you can get composite video out of IPad, iPod touch, and iPhone. Jailbreak and use TVout app from Cydia...


The cable I linked to in an earlier post has this as a description:



> Use the Apple Digital AV Adapter to mirror whatevers on your iPad 2 screen  apps, presentations, websites, and more  on your HDTV or HDMI-compatible display in up to 1080p HD (movies play at up to 720p).
> *Watch slideshows and movies on the big screen in up to 720p by connecting your iPad, iPhone 4, or iPod touch (4th generation) to an HDTV or HDMI-compatible display.
> *The Apple Digital AV Adapter routes digital audio to screens that support it.
> Connect the Apple Digital AV Adapter to your iPad, iPhone 4, or iPod touch (4th generation) via the 30-pin dock connector and to your HDMI-compatible display using an HDMI cable (sold separately).
> A second 30-pin connector built into the AV adapter lets you charge and sync your device while its connected to your HDMI-compatible display.


Why not just use it?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

crxssi said:


> I don't know about you, but my TiVo recordings are about 95% HD.


I'm optimistic that it could do HD, too; I just don't know enough about the iPad to say for sure.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

wmcbrine said:


> I'm optimistic that it could do HD, too; I just don't know enough about the iPad to say for sure.


My last generation 2.4 Ghz Althon dual core with Nvidia GPU and chipset running Mandriva 2010 could barely play high bitrate 1080, using mplayer, gstreamer, or Xine.  It was only really doable with NVPAU. A dual core, 1Ghz ARM processor is much, much less powerful- so I doubt it can do it unaided. However, there might be parts of the GPU that could be used, even though nothing I could find in any specs for the ipad1/2 say anything useful in that regard.


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## MrSkippy53 (Jan 27, 2011)

orangeboy said:


> The cable I linked to in an earlier post has this as a description:
> 
> Why not just use it?


That's for iPad 2. Th new iPad that comes out Today. Does not work for iPad 1, iPod touch, or iPhone.

It does say iPad 2 in the description.. iPad 2 is the first iDevice to have hi def out (except a computer or apple TV)

The do sell a cable for composite out on the other devices and you use the TVout app to mirror. Basically what the iPad 2 will do in SD.


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## MrSkippy53 (Jan 27, 2011)

Ipad1 has a HD screen and used apples A4 processor. So does the iPhone4, itouch4. Iphone4, iTouch4, iPad2. iPad2 has the dual core A5 processor. All are Apple processors NOT ARM (older versions are ARM). the current gen iDevices all have HD cameras and one can edit HD videos on them using the iMovie app... so I would say they can all do true HD..... I believe Netflix for iPad also does stream in HD like my Roku does.

I forget what video formats they support out of the box. But even with my iPhone3GS I can install apps to support just about any video format. There is also a VLC player app for streaming network content. 

Same goes for iPad. iPad only apps are all HD. You can run the phone apps on iPad but they are blown-up res.

With a router running DD-WRT and a VPN setup on it you can turn on the VPN function in iOS. And use that to stream via VLC (makes a remote home network).

In the past I have use a IOS app called TeamViewer (no jailbreak app) to remotely control my PC and Mac. You actually see the remote PC/Mac screen and control mouse and keyboard over wifi or 3G cell. Not sure if it also passed audio. If so one could use this to sudostream video to iDevices by using a TivoDesktop. Granted not true HD streaming but a good way to pass time while sitting at the airport waiting on that plane. I have not true this because when I am away from home I just use Netflix and my 3GS to watch content while on the road...


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

MrSkippy53 said:


> That's for iPad 2. Th new iPad that comes out Today. Does not work for iPad 1, iPod touch, or iPhone.
> 
> It does say iPad 2 in the description.. iPad 2 is the first iDevice to have hi def out (except a computer or apple TV)
> 
> The do sell a cable for composite out on the other devices and you use the TVout app to mirror. Basically what the iPad 2 will do in SD.


So Apple is lying when they say "Connect the Apple Digital AV Adapter to your iPad, iPhone 4, or iPod touch (4th generation) via the 30-pin dock connector and to your HDMI-compatible display using an HDMI cable (sold separately)"?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

crxssi said:


> Although certainly possible, that is not streaming from a TiVo, it is streaming from a desktop computer which is transcoding the video.


TiVo already uses a service running on a PC to facilitate MRV, so I do not think it would be much of a departure for them to consider a similar architecture to develop streaming to the iPad.

The TiVo would simply push the stream through a transcoding server sitting on a PC to an iPad or similar device. That same architecture could also facilitate MRV to the iPad.

3G / Remote streaming? I can use Air Video over 3G, but it down-rezes the signal so much that I do not use it. I just would not count on it happening and even if it did I do not suspect that many people would be very satisfied with the results.

So if you really want streaming/MRV to the iPad, in my opinion this is the best technical solution


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

orangeboy said:


> So Apple is lying when they say "Connect the Apple Digital AV Adapter to your iPad, iPhone 4, or iPod touch (4th generation) via the 30-pin dock connector and to your HDMI-compatible display using an HDMI cable (sold separately)"?


I would not use the cable, I would use an Apple TV. The unit costs $95 and can facilitate screen shifting between the iPad and your TV using Airplay.

But if TiVo really did develop a streaming app / architecture for the iPad, the best solution would be for them to then port that app directly to Apple TV!


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## NotVeryWitty (Oct 3, 2003)

MrSkippy53 said:


> Ipad1 has a HD screen and used apples A4 processor. So does the iPhone4, itouch4. Iphone4, iTouch4, iPad2. iPad2 has the dual core A5 processor. All are Apple processors NOT ARM (older versions are ARM).


FWIW, the A4 and A5 *are* ARM processors -- the A4 uses an ARM Cortex-A8 and the A5 uses the ARM Cortex-A9.

When one writes an iOS app, the compiler generates native ARM instructions.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A4.


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## SwampDonkey (Sep 4, 2010)

MediaLivingRoom said:


> I wish.
> 
> Tivo should also just make a TiVo Extender without cablecard to other TV within our own house.


This would be ideal. Too bad it won't happen.


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## MrSkippy53 (Jan 27, 2011)

orangeboy said:


> So Apple is lying when they say "Connect the Apple Digital AV Adapter to your iPad, iPhone 4, or iPod touch (4th generation) via the 30-pin dock connector and to your HDMI-compatible display using an HDMI cable (sold separately)"?


Lying no... Fine print... Only the iPad2 is able to mirror what ever is on the Ipad2 screen out through the new Digital Av adapter.

For the others it will output video through this adaptor but only in applications that support it.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

MrSkippy53 said:


> Lying no... Fine print... Only the iPad2 is able to mirror what ever is on the Ipad2 screen out through the new Digital Av adapter.
> 
> For the others it will output video through this adaptor but only in applications that support it.


That was true - but I am pretty sure that was changed in the 4.3 OS update that just went out yesterday.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

SwampDonkey said:


> This would be ideal. Too bad it won't happen.


Oh, it might happen, but only if the 'Tivo Extender' still required a $19.95/mo service fee for the right to use the device.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

MrSkippy53 said:


> Ipad1 has a HD screen and used apples A4 processor. So does the iPhone4, itouch4. Iphone4, iTouch4, iPad2. iPad2 has the dual core A5 processor. All are Apple processors NOT ARM (older versions are ARM). the current gen iDevices all have HD cameras and one can edit HD videos on them using the iMovie app... so I would say they can all do true HD..... I believe Netflix for iPad also does stream in HD like my Roku does. I forget what video formats they support out of the box. But even with my iPhone3GS I can install apps to support just about any video format. There is also a VLC player app for streaming network content. [...] Same goes for iPad. iPad only apps are all HD. You can run the phone apps on iPad but they are blown-up res. [...]


None of that matters when we are talking about streaming fixed/high-bitrate, 1080, HD Mpeg2 + AC3, because none of your examples are fixed/high-bitrate, 1080 HD Mpeg2 + AC3!

The TiVo does not and can not transcode codecs, bitrates, or resolutions. It simply grabs the offered bitstream that is supplied via cable or OTA, stores it, and plays it back later with the help of dedicated decoders. If you are speculating about streaming such high bitrate, high resolution mpeg2 to another device, then the destination device will have to be able to handle, decode, and display it, near realtime. That requires either dedicated mpeg2 decoder hardware (like the TiVo has), or a very powerful CPU... the former of which it is likely no iPad has, and the latter of which we know it doesn't have.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

bradleys said:


> TiVo already uses a service running on a PC to facilitate MRV,


Um, I am not aware that TiVo's MRV functionality requires a desktop computer.



> so I do not think it would be much of a departure for them to consider a similar architecture to develop streaming to the iPad.


It is not impossible, but it is certainly clunky. It is also not really "streaming" at that point, it is more akin to copying from one machine to another, then transcoding, then streaming to another device from there. I don't think that will be allowed to work with anything that has the copy protect flag set either.

It is more likely a third-party would create such functionality, if it is ever created at all. It is not a bad idea.... as long as it is multiplatform


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

crxssi said:


> You are correct but not for that exact reason. There is no such thing as a "video format". There is a video container and a video codec (and an audio codec). Mpeg4 is not a codec, it is a container that uses H.264 video and AAC audio.


Hate to get nit picky, but that's not right either. MPEG-4 is actually a specification which contains several parts including two video codecs, an audio codec, a container and a bunch of other stuff.

DivX/Xvid/MPEG-4 = MPEG-4 part 2
H.264/AVC = MPEG-4 part 10
AAC = MPEG-4 part 3
MP4 container = MPEG-4 part 14

Unfortunately the term "MPEG-4" is thrown around in a lot of different contexts so it's not always clear which part it's referring to. Another issue is that, just like with AVI, a lot of people don't understand that the MP4 container can actually contain a bunch of different audio/video codecs so they use it as a generic term rather as if all files of that type are the same. (an MP4 can actually contain MPEG-2 video and AC3 audio, but most people assume H.264/AAC)

All that being said I think the guy you're quoting still has a point. As far as I know the iPad does not support MPEG-2 video nor does the TiVo have the ability to transcode to either MPEG-4 pt.2 or H.264. Although it's possible that the iPad might support MPEG-2 via a special decoder in the TiVo app itself or that both devices could support an uncompressed or lightly compressed format, like MJPEG or DV, that could be handled in the general processor without much overhead.

Dan


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

What if TiVo were to offer an outboard transcoder for this feature. It could connect via USB or Ethernet, whichever makes more sense, and handle streaming to a variety of different devices that it has hardware to support. It could even add whatever flavor of DRM The destination device prefers. That way TiVo could provide it through MSOs and for standalones and tailor the capabilities to the application in software. It would probably even work with the S3 platform and keep that constituency happy too.

Not that TiVo would really do that, but it is a thought.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

If you're going to buy an external box why not just buy a Slingbox and get the Slingbox iPad app? That's basically all an external USB device could do.

Plus I think the TiVo is sort of tapped out on USB ports. With the WiFi adapter, SDV tuning adapter and the slide remote BlueTooth adapter there are already more potential devices then ports. Creating something else that needs a USB connection to the TiVo probably isn't the best way to go.

Dan


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

DeWitt said:


> I never saw the attraction of being able to stream to my iPad. Basically since it is in home only I wouldn't find it useful. At home I have larger higher quality screens than that on the iPad to view.
> 
> Now, when I am mobile, that is a completely different issue. I do use KMTTG and iTunes to move content to my iPad for watching on the train etc.


But if you had reliable WiFi for example, why should you have to prepare ahead of time? Or if you're at the gym (do treadmills at gyms nowadays have a place to put an iPad? I dunno), watch whatever you want from your own Tivo, live. Yeah, you can do this with slingbox now.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> As far as I know the iPad does not support MPEG-2 video nor does the TiVo have the ability to transcode to either MPEG-4 pt.2 or H.264. Although it's possible that the iPad might support MPEG-2 via a special decoder in the TiVo app itself or that both devices could support an uncompressed or lightly compressed format, like MJPEG or DV, that could be handled in the general processor without much overhead


There is really no such thing as handling high-bitrate, 1080, mpeg2 in the "general processor" without *tons* of overhead. Either the iPad has a hardware decoder or not... if it does not (which we really don't know for sure, but think not), then I doubt a software-only decoder would be able to keep up (and if it could, it would destroy the battery in no time flat). As for the TiVo spitting out something other than native mpeg2, I don't think the hardware decoder is capable of that... it is designed to output a bitstream to the video subsystem. Even if you could capture that output (internally), trying to then do ANYTHING with it using TiVo's CPU would put so much load on the system, it would never be real-time (which is required for streaming) while simultaneously destroying any interactivity with the UI. Disclaimer: this is speculation based on experience- I have no special insight into Apple or TiVo hardware.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I agree, probably not possible using the general purpose CPU in either device.

Although I remember when the TiVo HD came out there was some speculation that the Broadcom chip it used might have some sort of on the fly transcoding capabilities. I'm not sure if that was ever proven, or disproved, but perhaps the chip used in the Premiere has something like that and we're simply unaware of it.

In any case I doubt TiVo would even consider it if there wasn't some way for them to accomplish it. 

Dan


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## ourdoc (Jul 25, 2002)

http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/10/2...-streaming-dvr-content-to-ipad-with-prototype


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

I don't understand why it has to be transcoded. I have MPEG2 videos playing all the time using 3rd party software.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

DavidTigerFan said:


> I don't understand why it has to be transcoded. I have MPEG2 videos playing all the time using 3rd party software.


As CRXSSI has said several times - the iPad will not play mpeg2 natively. The third party software that you use resides on a computer and does real time transcoding to a format the iPad does support (H.264 I believe).

This transcoding appliance takes the place of both your 3rd party software and the computer it sits on.


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

VLC was released to the ipad a while ago (and is no longer available) but it had native playback for mpeg2.

http://www.ipadnewsdaily.com/216-vlc-app-coming-to-ipad-next-week.html


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Yeah, I have a VLC streaming app installed on my iPad - Assuming it is the same version you are posting here, it also required a helper app on a computer to work, however, I never use it. What you get is a bad picture, stuttering, weird crashes and image artifacts all over the place...

And if I remember correctly, the whole thing puked if you tried to connect to an HD movie brought down from the TiVo!

Air Video works better - but if your computer isn't i3 or better, the transcoding cannot keep up realtime.

As you might be able to tell - I have tried every viable option, and they all are terrible.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

What was the hinted timing for the Transcoder box? Was it mid summer?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

BlackBetty said:


> What was the hinted timing for the Transcoder box? Was it mid summer?


Later this year if I remember correctly.

Probably looking at 4th quarter...


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

bradleys said:


> Later this year if I remember correctly.
> 
> Probably looking at 4th quarter...


I specifically remember hearing summer.

EDIT:
Found it http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-02/tivotogo-2-0-slated-for-summer-release/


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Summer would be nice. We will see...

If I were in Vegas - my money would be on 4th Quater! 

I am really looking to this release!!!


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

TiVo has been pretty good lately sticking to stated time lines. I bet we see it by end of summer. I'll be picking one up as soon as its released.


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## Scarpad (Dec 7, 2000)

tombonneau said:


> So I'm sure some of you read this recent Engadget post.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/09/hulu-plus-on-tivo-apparently-being-tested-live-streaming-to-ipa/
> 
> What are the odds of this actually happening? Are there any significant technical hurdles, or is it basically same thing as streaming to PCs?


I do it right now...with a sling box


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

DavidTigerFan said:


> VLC was released to the ipad a while ago (and is no longer available) but it had native playback for mpeg2.


And that might work ok for some DVD resolution video. But since there is no HARDWARE DECODING for MPEG2, you can't expect to send a 1080I/P video and have it play smoothly, if at all, using software decoding. It is just too much data for ANY current tablet CPU to deal with. Period. The end. Not happening.


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

What MPEG2 source is in 1080p? I've only ever seen it in 720p. Besides, Downrezzing would be different than transcoding.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

DavidTigerFan said:


> What MPEG2 source is in 1080p?
> I've only ever seen it in 720p.


At the moment, 100% of everything you capture on the TiVo through cable or OTA is MPEG2. Cable companies are just starting to experiment with modern codecs for some types of video transmission (none of which the TiVo supports yet). ATSC (OTA) can *only* be MPEG2, because that is the only standard for broadcast video right now and in the foreseeable future.

Almost all programs stored on my TiVo are 1080i. A few are 720p. I don't "do" SD (and haven't for quite a few years). I don't know what type of programming your cable company delivers, but it sounds pretty depressing if you can only get 720p content. All our OTA programming (on the non side-channels) here is also 1080i.

480p (DVD) is 720 x 480 = 345,600 pixels
720P is 1280 x 720 = 921,600 pixels

Even 720P is almost 3 times as much data as DVD resolution.



> Besides, Downrezzing would be different than transcoding.


You are right. It is different and MORE CPU intensive than just playing the original resolution. Because you have to first decode it (which is where most of the cycles go) and then turn around and downres it. And then you still have to display it.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

crxssi said:


> At the moment, 100% of everything you capture on the TiVo through cable or OTA is MPEG2. Cable companies are just starting to experiment with modern codecs for some types of video transmission *(none of which the TiVo supports yet)*.


Don't think that's true, even the S3s supported some mp4 streams. I'm sure the Premiere has even better support for mp4.

http://code.google.com/p/streambaby/wiki/video_compatibility

I'm guessing the new iPad 3 still doesn't handle mpeg2 in hardware, right?


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

slowbiscuit said:


> Don't think that's true, even the S3s supported some mp4 streams. I'm sure the Premiere has even better support for mp4.


I never said the Premiere could not handle mp4 steams, I said they are not being BROADCAST yet.... all OTA is MPEG2. Almost all cable TV is MPEG2, for now.



> I'm guessing the new iPad 3 still doesn't handle mpeg2 in hardware, right?


Don't know. I own Android tablets. They tend to have the same hardware limitations, however. It seems like no modern tablets/phones support hardware acceleration for mpeg2.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

No - you said cableCos are experimenting with modern codecs (i.e., mp4) and then said Tivo does not support them, which is untrue. That's all.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

slowbiscuit said:


> No - you said cableCos are experimenting with modern codecs (i.e., mp4) and then said Tivo does not support them, which is untrue. That's all.


Oh... that is not what I meant in my posting when I said "video transmission". I know/knew the Premiere supports other codecs (such as H.264). What it didn't support yet were the video transmissions ("On Demand" and such). Although that is supposed to be changing very soon now; well, at least with some lucky cable subscribers.

In context, I was relaying to DavidTigerFan that there is currently nothing stored on a TiVo (specifically a Premiere) that could be "streamed" to a mobile device (or any device) that would be in any other form than MPEG2.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

> TiVo (specifically a Premiere) that could be "streamed" to a mobile device (or any device) that would be in any other form than MPEG2.


Exactly... My original recommendation was a helper app (expanded tivo desktop) on a local computer to facilitate the transcoding / streaming.

But TiVo's solution is going to be a lot easier to implement and far more stable of a solution. IMHO this is a fantastic approach and I am all in!


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

crxssi said:


> In context, I was relaying to DavidTigerFan that there is currently nothing stored on a TiVo (specifically a Premiere) that could be "streamed" to a mobile device (or any device) that would be in any other form than MPEG2.


If you push an MP4 to a Premiere, you can stream it to another Premiere.

I think MPEG4-based QAM recordings can be treated the same as other recordings, except that they probably aren't extractable as program streams. There are some cable systems trying this now, and a recent Premiere software update to support it. But I don't think we know much more about it.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Scarpad said:


> I do it right now...with a sling box


Two words: user interface. I am not interested in a "virtual remote," or IR blaster and the subsequent interface lag. I want to stream directly in the native TiVo iPad app.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

wmcbrine said:


> If you push an MP4 to a Premiere, you can stream it to another Premiere.


True, but if you involve another computer, things are easier, anyway. One could then just transfer from that other device to the tablet without involving the TiVo.



> I think MPEG4-based QAM recordings can be treated the same as other recordings, except that they probably aren't extractable as program streams. There are some cable systems trying this now, and a recent Premiere software update to support it. But I don't think we know much more about it.


It will be interesting to see how this evolves. H.264 would essentially halve the amount of bandwidth needed for MPEG2 channels. In a time of freaky hacks like SDV, it seems like a more sane solution to bandwidth crunches. Of course, the cable companies have tons of equipment that is not compatible at the moment, but I bet as hardware is slowly refreshed, the capability will sneak in.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

crxssi said:


> True, but if you involve another computer, things are easier, anyway. One could then just transfer from that other device to the tablet without involving the TiVo.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how this evolves. H.264 would essentially halve the amount of bandwidth needed for MPEG2 channels. In a time of freaky hacks like SDV, it seems like a more sane solution to bandwidth crunches. Of course, the cable companies have tons of equipment that is not compatible at the moment, but I bet as hardware is slowly refreshed, the capability will sneak in.


Its already sneaking in --> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1392677


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

I don't think mp4 will show up on cable systems until they start using IP delivery (over QAM channels), and it will be interesting to see how Tivo supports it. SDV without the TAs, in other words. It also raises the possibility that Tivo could support U-Verse if a two-way IP standard was ever created.

Of course we're now in FCC AllVid territory when you talk about mp4 over IP, but that's gone nowhere.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

slowbiscuit said:


> I don't think mp4 will show up on cable systems until they start using IP delivery (over QAM channels), and it will be interesting to see how Tivo supports it. SDV without the TAs, in other words. It also raises the possibility that Tivo could support U-Verse if a two-way IP standard was ever created.


Tuning adapters are/were an abomination that should never have happened in the first place. There is no good reason I can think of they didn't settle on doing it over regular IP in the first place. At least it should be, in theory, very easy for TiVo to implement an IP-based solution. That is, unless the cable companies do what they typically do and come up with insanely complex, proprietary, restrictive, incompatible stuff as they seem to like.



> Of course we're now in FCC AllVid territory when you talk about mp4 over IP, but that's gone nowhere.


The FCC has proven to be totally lame. This is the body that was supposed to ensure that cable companies play fair and allow consumers to use non-cable-company equipment without technical problems or discrimination. We see how well that turned out.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

slowbiscuit said:


> I don't think mp4 will show up on cable systems until they start using IP delivery


You think wrongly. It's already showing up without that. There's no connection between these two things.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Where, on Cox? It's not on Comcast unless you count the couple of 3D channels. There are a zillion STBs that have to be upgraded before mp4 is a reality over QAM.


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## gglockner (Sep 5, 2002)

Fofer said:


> Two words: user interface. I am not interested in a "virtual remote," or IR blaster and the subsequent interface lag. I want to stream directly in the native TiVo iPad app.


Bingo. I also don't want something that has to go through the analog hole to re-digitize content. Nor do I want to have to use an application to download content from the TiVo to the computer and then to the portable device. I simply want to stream the digital content from the TiVo to the portable device, so that I can watch something in bed or somewhere in the house besides the TV room.

I'm willing to upgrade to a Premiere. I'm willing to pay a bit for the feature. But it has to work correctly.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

gglockner said:


> Bingo. I also don't want something that has to go through the analog hole to re-digitize content. Nor do I want to have to use an application to download content from the TiVo to the computer and then to the portable device. I simply want to stream the digital content from the TiVo to the portable device, so that I can watch something in bed or somewhere in the house besides the TV room.


 This new device will re-encode on the fly as well from mpeg2 to h.264 so not that much different from Sling in terms of loss of quality due to re-encoding.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

gglockner said:


> Bingo. I also don't want something that has to go through the analog hole to re-digitize content. Nor do I want to have to use an application to download content from the TiVo to the computer and then to the portable device. I simply want to stream the digital content from the TiVo to the portable device, so that I can watch something in bed or somewhere in the house besides the TV room.
> 
> I'm willing to upgrade to a Premiere. I'm willing to pay a bit for the feature. But it has to work correctly.


And that is exactly what the Trascoder is supposed to do. Seemlessly allow you to stream content either live TV or recorded shows from your TiVo Premier to your TiVo mobile app. (Home Network only) And to sideload a recording to the mobile device for watching away from home.

You will need a Premier and this add on transcoder, but after that this looks like a pretty elegant solution.

I am really looking forward to this device and will jump on it as soon as it is available.



> This new device will re-encode on the fly as well from mpeg2 to h.264 so not that much different from Sling in terms of loss of quality due to re-encoding.


I have never used Sling, but it was my understanding that the device downrezzed the program to meet your current connectivity. I have tried real time transcoding in the past from a computer using iPad apps and the quality was not very good. Lots of stuttering and out of sync.

I expect / hope this solution will be much better quality then that.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

moyekj said:


> This new device will re-encode on the fly as well from mpeg2 to h.264 so not that much different from Sling in terms of loss of quality due to re-encoding.


Huge difference in UI though. I don't want a "virtual remote," IR blasters, a $30 app, period. I want interface integration and the native iPad app is a great platform to build on top of, for this.

The H.264 requirement comes from the iPad, so of course re-encoding from mpeg2 would be required regardless. Whether that's done with integrated circuitry inside the TiVo, or an external box (like the one this thread discusses) doesn't bother me, so long as the UI and interaction with it, by the end user, is seamless.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

bradleys said:


> I have never used Sling, but it was my understanding that the device downrezzed the program to meet your current connectivity. I have tried live transcoding in the past from a computer using iPad apps and the quality was not very good. Lots of stuttering and out of sync.


 If you use Sling on your LAN the quality is very good with additional advantage you can Sling outside your LAN. The TiVo device looks like will only be designed to work on your LAN so will not address viewing outside the LAN.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

moyekj said:


> The TiVo device looks like will only be designed to work on your LAN so will not address viewing outside the LAN.


That is correct... TiVo has said that streaming is only being implemented to work on your LAN (although they have said that external streaming has not been designed out of the solution). But I think obviously TiVo believes sideloading is the best meathod for viewing content outside your LAN, and I would not purchase the device with the hope or expectation the external streaming will ever be delivered.

And of couse, Sideloading is a solution that Sling does not offer.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

bradleys said:


> And of couse, Sideloading is a solution that Sling does not offer.


Probably because it isn't really a big feature most people will use. It would require planning to know what you want to watch and the time to actually sideload it. I think most people would just watch the program on Hulu before dealing with all of that. These days people clearly want instant gratification. The sideloading is just TiVo's way to appease the 10 people still trying to use TiVo To Go.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Yeah. If I'm gonna sideload I might as well watch it on Hulu or grab it off BitTorrent/Usenet -- where the commercials are already stripped. And these days I am able to download and unpack it faster than it takes to extract and transcode myself.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Maybe, but I have been trying for quite some time to develop a bullet proof system for transcoding and delivering content to the iPad - both for real-time and offline viewing. 

Unfortunately, I haven't found anything that works consistently well. And absoutely nothing that I have been willing to put the effort into automating. I actually started to spec out a replacement for my WHS that would have the horsepower to transcode on the fly...

Yes, I did look at Slingbox but it also has several limitations that made it less then appealing for me. 

As for sideloading... For me and I think many users, this could be a viable solution. Often you do not have a wifi connection available or worse you have to worry about hitting your usage caps. 

Hulu, Netflix and other streaming services have their space - for a price. For me, and I suspect others, simple Sideloading is going to become very usable.

I use TiVo to watch a lot of Movies that I have ripped from my DVD collections. This quick and easy way to move movies onto the iPad is really apealing to me.

And who said that sideloading had to be done from within your network? - Just saying... MRS vs MRV?


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Fofer said:


> Yeah. If I'm gonna sideload I might as well watch it on Hulu or grab it off BitTorrent/Usenet -- where the commercials are already stripped. And these days I am able to download and unpack it faster than it takes to extract and transcode myself.


If you are going to get from BT, you may as well just use an app called Air Video Server. It transcodes on the fly outside of the network to the iPad/iPhone.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

aadam101 said:


> If you are going to get from BT, you may as well just use an app called Air Video Server. It transcodes on the fly outside of the network to the iPad/iPhone.


I have used Air Video... If you have enough processing power then it works pretty well. If you do not, it will studder and spit with a lot of ghost images and out of sync audio. And that is in network!

When I moved it to a machine with an i5 processor it didn't work too poorly. But streaming over 3G it downrezzes quite a bit and it isn't something that I could really stomach watching.

Most of my content is MPEG2 so it does require realitime transcoding to watch.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

bradleys said:


> That is correct... TiVo has said that streaming is only being implemented to work on your LAN (although they have said that external streaming has not been designed out of the solution). But I think obviously TiVo believes sideloading is the best meathod for viewing content outside your LAN, and I would not purchase the device with the hope or expectation the external streaming will ever be delivered.
> 
> And of couse, Sideloading is a solution that Sling does not offer.


 I can see why some are excited about this, but for me at home I have multiple TVs and multiple TiVos so I would much rather watch programs on a real TV (rather than a comparatively tiny tablet screen) via MRS without any transcoding so this device is not enticing to me for the LAN and since it can't do anything useful outside the LAN it's just of no use to me at all.


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