# TiVo Groups or Folders



## FrankBella

I like the way TiVo organizes some of my recordings in the Now Playing list into groups.

Id like to see this feature expanded so that I can *make my own groups* (e.g.: Horror Movies, Save for wife, etc)

This would be especially useful now that I added a 500GB DVR expander  Ive got room for hundreds of hours of movies . Whattya think??


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## mikeyts

Personally, I think that'd be nice. A common tag on computer video containers (.mkv, .vob, etc) is "Album"; if this tag is set on videos downloaded to the PS3, it can organize them in folders according to album name. If there is no album tag when you download, PS3 sets one, using the current date and you can edit it to whatever you want. Maybe TiVo could have an editable "Album" field on recordings.


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## johnny99

Yes, folders would be a nice feature. Or tags like in gmail.


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## betts4

FrankBella said:


> I like the way TiVo organizes some of my recordings in the Now Playing list into groups.
> 
> Id like to see this feature expanded so that I can *make my own groups* (e.g.: Horror Movies, Save for wife, etc)
> 
> This would be especially useful now that I added a 500GB DVR expander  Ive got room for hundreds of hours of movies . Whattya think??


Excellent idea!


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## burnside

To add to that, I'd like to have subgroups. So for my sci-fi programs I would show from the Now Playing List:

NPL -> SciFi Shows -> Star Trek Enterprise -> Episode #24


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## TooMuchTime

I have always wondered why Tivo doesn't have user-created folders. An example I have is that I record the NFL Films Superbowl videos. However, they are named "Superbowl XV" or Superbowl XVI." If they were named "Superbowl: XV" then Tivo would create a separate folder for them. Maybe that's a possible option, too. The ability to edit the name of the recording. Put a colon in the name and let Tivo create the folder.


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## burnside

TooMuchTime said:


> I have always wondered why Tivo doesn't have user-created folders. An example I have is that I record the NFL Films Superbowl videos. However, they are named "Superbowl XV" or Superbowl XVI." If they were named "Superbowl: XV" then Tivo would create a separate folder for them. Maybe that's a possible option, too. The ability to edit the name of the recording. Put a colon in the name and let Tivo create the folder.


I hear ya. I understand they want to make Tivos easy to use, but adding some advanced options would be nice. Organizing is something that would be a big hit with die hard tivo users!


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## wdavew

Very few of my recordings are HD, and I'm putting several short subjects onto the TivoHD, so I can easily put over 500 items on the now playing list. 

One alternative would be to assign folder information by the TiVo Desktop that would be used when transferred.


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## burnside

There are just too many situations where having User Defined groups/folders would come in handy. Please Tivo, let's get this feature rolling!


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## lrhorer

This isn't exactly the first time this has been requested. In fact, I think we're up to six digits, now. 

There is something of a work-around. One may transfer recordings to an external PC or server and use an application like Galleon or pyTiVo to create folders on the TiVo for the programs residing on the external device.


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## burnside

lrhorer said:


> This isn't exactly the first time this has been requested. In fact, I think we're up to six digits, now.
> 
> There is something of a work-around. One may transfer recordings to an external PC or server and use an application like Galleon or pyTiVo to create folders on the TiVo for the programs residing on the external device.


I heard of the pytivo work around, but even with that, you can only use folder names that have a series id and that are present in the guide data.


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## lrhorer

burnside said:


> I heard of the pytivo work around, but even with that, you can only use folder names that have a series id and that are present in the guide data.


Well, it depends on what you mean, and not quite, in any case. Programs sitting on the pyTivo server will be arranged into whatever folders you like based strictly upon the folder structure on the server, and the name of the folder on the pyTivo server doesn't matter at all. Said folders will show up under the pyTivo share(s) in the NPL. It doesn't matter if the programs in question are a series, or not. For example, one of my pyTivo shares is just an alphabetical arrangement of folders and programs by title. I have all the Harry Potter films in one folder, all the Die Hard films in another, etc. These are not series in the way the Tivo thinks of a series, and when transferred to the Tivo, they will all simply show up as individual programs in the root of the NPL. The same, however, is true of a program which in fact is a part of a TV series if the TiVo does not recognize its series ID. Note this only affects programs *after* they have been transferred to the TiVo, not before. For myself, regardless of whether it is part of a series or not, I don't transfer a program to the TiVo unless I am going to watch it shortly, and then I will delete it immediately thereafter as a matter of course. Thus, whether the TiVo recognizes the program as part of a series or not is a fairly moot point. YMMV, of course, but I think most people who put programs on an external server will usually leave them there until they are anbout ready to watch them.


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## burnside

lrhorer said:


> Well, it depends on what you mean, and not quite, in any case. Programs sitting on the pyTivo server will be arranged into whatever folders you like based strictly upon the folder structure on the server, and the name of the folder on the pyTivo server doesn't matter at all. Said folders will show up under the pyTivo share(s) in the NPL. It doesn't matter if the programs in question are a series, or not. For example, one of my pyTivo shares is just an alphabetical arrangement of folders and programs by title. I have all the Harry Potter films in one folder, all the Die Hard films in another, etc. These are not series in the way the Tivo thinks of a series, and when transferred to the Tivo, they will all simply show up as individual programs in the root of the NPL. The same, however, is true of a program which in fact is a part of a TV series if the TiVo does not recognize its series ID. Note this only affects programs *after* they have been transferred to the TiVo, not before. For myself, regardless of whether it is part of a series or not, I don't transfer a program to the TiVo unless I am going to watch it shortly, and then I will delete it immediately thereafter as a matter of course. Thus, whether the TiVo recognizes the program as part of a series or not is a fairly moot point. YMMV, of course, but I think most people who put programs on an external server will usually leave them there until they are anbout ready to watch them.


I store movies (home and dvd) on the tivo so I leave them on the tivo and don't delete them. That's why it would be nice if we could create our own foders/subfolders on the tivo.


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## lrhorer

I believe we all agree it would be really nice to be able to actually create and manage folders on the TiVo. Galleon and pyTivo allow the user a limited work-around, not a complete solution,and certainly not a transparent one, but it's better than nothing.

As for leaving videos on the TiVos... well, the TiVo drives are way too small to make this practical for my purposes. At this point in time, the TiVo is limited to 2.2 TB.


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## burnside

They'll get mp4 working sooner than later and that will allow more files as well.


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## lrhorer

'Not really significantly. Typically, for no discernible loss in PQ, an MPEG-4 video is going to be between 1/2 to 2/3 as large as an MPEG-2 file of the same content. At best, one may expect perhaps a factor of four. That's still only 8T or so of equivalent MPEG-2 files. I've only been collecting videos for about a year, and I'm already beyond 8T. When I'm "done", I'll expect to have in excess of 30T of MPEG-4 files.

None of which is to say 2.2T or so won't meet your long term needs, but it doesn't even come close to my short term needs, let alone what will be required over the long haul.


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## burnside

I can get a factor of 5 on my mp4 conversions, but I do see where you're getting at. If you have a very large library, then a Tivo will not handle that space requirement. For me, I have a medium sized library, but only about half of those movies I would want to watch at any given time.


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## theviaumaster

For me, this really isn't a "storage" issue as much as an "organization" issue. We have a ton of shows, constantly being downloaded/recorded, watched, and deleted. As a home with kids of several ages and adults with varying tastes, it would just be nice to have a folder for each family member--a place where we could shunt all of our shows so we're not searching through 25 pages in the NPL when trying to find something to watch. Kids Zone does a pretty good job of sectioning off some of the content, but it starts to break down if you have kids from more than one age group. What drives me crazy about Kids Zone is that I still have to fight through all the kid's shows in the NPL. It's almost like we need a Parents Zone that doesn't display anything that's already in the Kids Zone.  But I guess that's basically the family folders idea that I'm talking about. 

I think the real trick would be coming up with a method of automatically moving the shows into the folders. If the process of organizing shows into folders was manual, it might not end up being any more convenient than what we're dealing with right now. Remember, the majority of our content is recorded, watched, and deleted within a day or two. There would have to be a way to tell the TiVo--probably in the Season Pass--that a specific show needs to go into a specific folder when recorded. 

C'mon, TiVo, why isn't this working yet?!?


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## burnside

theviaumaster said:


> For me, this really isn't a "storage" issue as much as an "organization" issue. We have a ton of shows, constantly being downloaded/recorded, watched, and deleted. As a home with kids of several ages and adults with varying tastes, it would just be nice to have a folder for each family member--a place where we could shunt all of our shows so we're not searching through 25 pages in the NPL when trying to find something to watch. Kids Zone does a pretty good job of sectioning off some of the content, but it starts to break down if you have kids from more than one age group. What drives me crazy about Kids Zone is that I still have to fight through all the kid's shows in the NPL. It's almost like we need a Parents Zone that doesn't display anything that's already in the Kids Zone.  But I guess that's basically the family folders idea that I'm talking about.
> 
> I think the real trick would be coming up with a method of automatically moving the shows into the folders. If the process of organizing shows into folders was manual, it might not end up being any more convenient than what we're dealing with right now. Remember, the majority of our content is recorded, watched, and deleted within a day or two. There would have to be a way to tell the TiVo--probably in the Season Pass--that a specific show needs to go into a specific folder when recorded.
> 
> C'mon, TiVo, why isn't this working yet?!?


I totally agree. I was just thinking about this yesterday ironically. I'd love to have a folder for me, my wife, and my child. I just don't see why we can't create our own folders, name them, then tell tivo where to put season pass recordings or just manually move recordings to a folder. Let's get this going Tivo!


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## Markell

theviaumaster said:


> For me, this really isn't a "storage" issue as much as an "organization" issue....
> C'mon, TiVo, why isn't this working yet?!?


Because, like everyone else, once they have our money, they don't care what we want.


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## [email protected]

Yeah I just transfered so many music videos to Tivo and it's hard going through the list.


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## lrhorer

theviaumaster said:


> For me, this really isn't a "storage" issue as much as an "organization" issue.


Yes, but the two are somewhat related. The need for folders goes pretty much hand in hand with more drive space, and the need for more drive space may eventually bump up against the TiVo's limitations. Again, I'm not in any way arguing against the desire to create and manage one's own directories on the Tivo. I would make some use of this myself if it were available.



theviaumaster said:


> We have a ton of shows, constantly being downloaded/recorded, watched, and deleted. As a home with kids of several ages and adults with varying tastes, it would just be nice to have a folder for each family member--a place where we could shunt all of our shows so we're not searching through 25 pages in the NPL when trying to find something to watch.


Certainly! While there are tools in galleon (or even Tivo Desktop, if you must) to automate uploads to an external PC, and while these functions can be relegated to an external system, there is absolutely no question it would be much more convenient to handle many such things directly on the TiVo.


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## DaJoos

+1

Gotta apologize up front - I'm posting not because I have anything new to offer, but this is my long-time number 1 feature request for Tivo, and I'm hoping if it gets mentioned often enough someone at Tivo Inc. may actually start working on it!

As others have mentioned in the past, I'm a former ReplayTV user, and the ability to group shows into categories (i.e. wife's shows, daughter's shows, etc) was a very nice feature. Now that my Tivo HD XL has over 100 shows (and counting) this 'very nice feature' is leaning more towards the necessity stage - could it be that tough? (C'mon Tivo - ReplayTV had it years ago!)


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## kika2000

+1

Sorry I'm not really saying anything new, but as a new user, this is one of the few places where Tivo falls horribly short of my old, crappy cable company dvr.

I couldn't make folders, but I could manually re-order the list of my recordings. The real function of this was to determine the order in which shows would be deleted from the drive, but I used it constantly to organize shows by season, episode and priority.

I find myself constantly changing my 'viewing' preferences to try to get the Now Playing List to make more sense - and it always feels like it's a mess.


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## armstrda

Yes, this option would be awesome!


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## spocko

I'll add another +1.

For a Tivo HD XL or any Tivo with a large DVR Expander, this would be a huge usability improvement.


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## zarchon69

If your TiVo is on your home network and you have the desktop program, you can create folders and name them and then transfer shows from your pc back to those folders


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## DrLivingstone

To be clear, you need TiVo Desktop *Plus* to create folders... and it's licensed on a per-PC basis.


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## SNJpage1

I think the solution is a better way to store the programs on your computer and then stream them to watch. This gives you more storage space, the ability to organise by folders and even set up pass word protected folders. Desktop plus needs to be improved.


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## lrhorer

DrLivingstone said:


> To be clear, you need TiVo Desktop *Plus* to create folders... and it's licensed on a per-PC basis.


Perhaps it is better to be accurate than clear. TD+ is *NOT* necessarily required to create folders. I do not recommend either TD or TD+. Both are terrible. Galleon and pyTiVo do a much better job.


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## JohnDiamant

+1 on the request for ad-hoc grouping.

However, there is a partial workarond to do what the OP asks using ARWLs (auto-record wishlists). Create a single auto-record wishlist which matches several programs you want to group and they'll show up grouped under that named wishlist. You can exclude programs you don't want with keyword exclusions in the wishlist or by "view upcoming wishlists" ([TiVo]-3) and marking programs not to record which you don't want. You have to add the programs to the wishlist before they record, though, and it's cumbersome to add individual titles to a wishlist.


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## sushikitten

I'd love this as well.


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## brian1269

Yeah this seems like a no-brainer. I have been wanting this feature for years, even before groups were introduced. So why won't TiVo implement this very simple but useful feature? Why does TiVo not listen to its most loyal users?


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## orangeboy

brian1269 said:


> ...Why does TiVo not listen to its most loyal users?


Have you filled out the survey in my signature line? If you haven't, the question would be "Why aren't loyal users telling TiVo what they want?"


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## retired_guy

JohnDiamant said:


> +1 on the request for ad-hoc grouping.
> 
> However, there is a partial workarond to do what the OP asks using ARWLs (auto-record wishlists). Create a single auto-record wishlist which matches several programs you want to group and they'll show up grouped under that named wishlist. You can exclude programs you don't want with keyword exclusions in the wishlist or by "view upcoming wishlists" ([TiVo]-3) and marking programs not to record which you don't want. You have to add the programs to the wishlist before they record, though, and it's cumbersome to add individual titles to a wishlist.


I've done this for my grand kids who love Scooby-Do. I long ago set up a wishlist named "Scooby". But yesterday, I accidently deleted that folder which had 87 entries. I recovered them from the delete file immediately but found out that grouping was now gone and the "Scoobys" are spread throughout my "now playing" list, some in folders but most individually listed due to the way the various Scooby programs are named. I could really have used some user capability in determining what goes in what folder; it's surprising that TiVos have existed for so long without that capability; I suspect they would have added it a long time ago if it weren't for those darn kids at TiVo (inside joke for Scooby lovers).


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## brian1269

orangeboy said:


> Have you filled out the survey in my signature line? If you haven't, the question would be "Why aren't loyal users telling TiVo what they want?"


Yes, I have. TiVo asked us to fill that out years ago I believe, and I have done so several times. Doesn't really seem to do much good though, does it?

I love TiVo and it's still the best HD DVR out there I know of, but it needs to evolve a little to keep ahead of the pack. And listening to power users, like reading these boards and responding to feedback, would be a very good start. Agreed?

This feature along with a few other main ones have been asked for over and over yet here we sit still talking about it.


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## Markell

I absolutely agree with this. I don't even have that much room, but my viewing would be much easier if I could organize the shows as I want to.


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## Markell

orangeboy said:


> Have you filled out the survey in my signature line? If you haven't, the question would be "Why aren't loyal users telling TiVo what they want?"


I've filled out the survey, but another question to ask is, "Why doesn't TiVo read this message board?" If I had a company, and there were a message board devoted to it, you can be sure I'd make sure that I (or someone who worked for me) was monitoring it all the time!


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## Markell

SNJpage1 said:


> I think the solution is a better way to store the programs on your computer and then stream them to watch. This gives you more storage space, the ability to organise by folders and even set up pass word protected folders. Desktop plus needs to be improved.


I hope that's not the solution, since my TiVo box is in my screening room and has nothing to do with my computer.


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## orangeboy

Markell said:


> I've filled out the survey, but another question to ask is, "Why doesn't TiVo read this message board?" If I had a company, and there were a message board devoted to it, you can be sure I'd make sure that I (or someone who worked for me) was monitoring it all the time!


TiVo employees do read and participate on certain topics, provided that they are not disclosing too much information that could tip their hand to their competition. This is after all a public forum. I would think that the amount of truly relevant useful information for the TiVo corporation found on this forum would not justify paying a full time employee to monitor it.


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## mikeyts

I have a close friend who's an SE at TiVo and he tells me that they're all encouraged to read these forums, but forbidden to post, except as requested by their management. It's not just the possibility of leaking unpublished information, it's a liability issue. If one of them posts something it can be construed as a statement by a representative of TiVo; if it's wrong, people can attempt to hold them liable for "damages" ("I made a large investment in TiVo because one of their representatives said so-and-so in a public online forum; they were wrong and I lost a lot of money..."). Everything a corporation says to the public needs to be carefully considered, and it must all be consistent with everything else they've said.

Everyone who works at a company like TiVo signs a non-disclosure agreement and almost certainly will be dismissed if they violate it.


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## jeduffey

+1 for ad hoc groups, and it should be available to S2 owners, just as sort by group should be available to S1 owners. This is a very simple programming change. 


Where's that thread about taking good care of your long time customers with older gear, because the generate referrals that buy 4, 5, or 7 other TiVos - this is from experience.


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## CrispyCritter

jeduffey said:


> +1 for ad hoc groups, and it should be available to S2 owners, just as sort by group should be available to S1 owners. This is a very simple programming change.
> 
> Where's that thread about taking good care of your long time customers with older gear, because the generate referrals that buy 4, 5, or 7 other TiVos - this is from experience.


TiVo does not have the ability to make ANY programming changes to the Series 1. There was a major goof-up at TiVo a couple of years ago, and they lost the ability to compile the current Series 1 code (they never said exactly why). It has caused them all kinds of problems, but there's nothing they can do about it.


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## JMSWDLY

The problem with transferring shows to TiVo Desktop to sort into folders and then transferring back is that many cable and premium shows and movies will not transfer to TiVo Desktop anyway.


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## Jonathan_S

JMSWDLY said:


> The problem with transferring shows to TiVo Desktop to sort into folders and then transferring back is that many cable and premium shows and movies will not transfer to TiVo Desktop anyway.


That entirely depends on your cable provider*. Although do I get the impression that for many (most?) providers premium channels are protected.

*On the one extreme Time Warner puts the do not copy flag on every channel they aren't legal prohibited from flagging and on the other extreme Verizon FIOS doesn't seem to copy protect anything.


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