# Game of Thrones "Two Swords" 4/06/14 S4E1



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Dragons!

Great start to the season.

Reminder that individual episode threads are for discussion of the TV episode only. No book discussion. Someone will start a thread where the books can be discussed, along with any and all spoilers.

Edit: Decided to go ahead and create the Book/TV thread:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=516317


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

The destruction of Ice and the retrieval of Needle. The two swords. 

The cannibalism displayed by the Thenns was way too obvious before they showed the cooking arm. They were still pretty bad ass, though.

Joffrey is still a dick.


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## 6079 Smith W (Oct 2, 2000)

Sandor "Leeroy Jenkins" Clegane: at least he has chicken.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkCNJRfSZBU[/media]


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Arya really seemed to enjoy her revenge. ::shudder:: 

Good episode. Very glad it's back!


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Shaunnick said:


> The destruction of Ice and the retrieval of Needle. The two swords.
> 
> The cannibalism displayed by the Thenns was way too obvious before they showed the cooking arm. They were still pretty bad ass, though.
> 
> Joffrey is still a dick.


Ice was also melted down into two swords.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

I'm confused about who the guy was that was showing Dany the various flowers. Is he the same guy who joined her last season when he brought her the two heads of his former comrades? If so, I guess they must have recast the part.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

gweempose said:


> I'm confused about who the guy was that was showing Dany the various flowers. Is he the same guy who joined her last season when he brought her the two heads of his former comrades? If so, I guess they must have recast the part.


Yes and yes. Ed Skrein -> Michiel Huisman


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Meh. This one felt kind of slow to me. 

I did like the retrieval of Needle. 

Did they change something about Jaime Lannister's appearance (other than his armor)? I almost didn't recognize him. Something with his hair, perhaps?

I'm looking forward to what this prince from Dorne will stir up in King's Landing. Maybe he'll provide some good plot material for Tyrion.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

smbaker said:


> Did they change something about Jaime Lannister's appearance (other than his armor)? I almost didn't recognize him. Something with his hair, perhaps?


His hair is now significantly shorter than it was for the last couple seasons.

This was mostly a place-setting episode, as should have been expected. They just need to reacquaint us with what's going on and start things in motion.

I'm always confused about timing in this show. Tyrion said it had been weeks since he'd been married to Sansa, or maybe weeks since she learned of the death of her mother and brother. But then they show Arya riding on the Hound's horse having a conversation you wouldn't have if you'd been riding that same way for weeks. And how long ago was it that Winterfell was sacked and burned? Yet the last shot of the episode shows fires still raging. What kind of fires just burn for months at a time like that?


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

DevdogAZ said:


> And how long ago was it that Winterfell was sacked and burned? Yet the last shot of the episode shows fires still raging. What kind of fires just burn for months at a time like that?


What did you see that made you think that was Winterfell?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I'd marry Arya Stark if she weren't an underaged fictional character.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> I'd marry Arya Stark if she weren't an underaged fictional character.


No objections to the cold blooded murderer part?


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

john4200 said:


> What did you see that made you think that was Winterfell?


I saw it in the opening sequence with the model areas.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

What an evil touch for Tywin to add Direwolf pelt to the swords. The man never ceases to amaze me.

I was surprised that Arya didn't grow at all between seasons. The Red Priestess was right, Arya is a killer. The Hound is in for a surprise when he gets to The Veil.

I'd love to find out why they changed actors on us.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I'd love to find out why they changed actors on us.


I'm glad they did. The first guy had a creepy smile.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Gunnyman said:


> I saw it in the opening sequence with the model areas.


Nah, they're still in the midlands...headed from The Twins (Fry's castles) to The Vale. Hundreds of miles south of Winterfell. (I think maps are really necessary for this show...maybe download a good one of Westeros at least, and keep it at hand so you can tell where things are happening.)

That scene was designed to drive home the consequences of what Joffrey's men were telling the Hound in the tavern...being Joffrey's men gives them license to do as they please.

Joffrey may suck at everything, but the thing he sucks at the most is...well, being sane. But the thing he sucks at the second-most is keeping the peace. There was a line early in the show where somebody said something to the effect that when the noblemen play the game of thrones, everybody else just keep their heads low, waits for the war to end, and keep paying their taxes to whoever wins. The war doesn't matter to most people.

This war, obviously, is different. Everybody's suffering. Everything's burning.

I was thinking about Joffrey gloating over winning the war, when of course he did no such thing...Robb lost it. Robb may have been great at battles, but he monumentally sucked at ruling...almost every non-military decision he made was terrible, and it was only a matter of time before their cumulative effect caught up with him. And it occurs to me, he was a young Robert Baratheon (great warrior, bad ruler) trying, but failing miserably, to be Ned Stark.

It also occurred to me that much as Tywin despises Joffrey, Joffrey has a bit of the old man in him. Tywin was certainly gloating (in his own quiet way) over his "victory" over the Starks, but he really had nothing to do with it. He lost battle after battle, and Robb only ended up defeating himself. Joffrey is just the worst qualities of Tywin (and the Lannisters in general) magnified.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Anubys said:


> What an evil touch for Tywin to add Direwolf pelt to the swords. The man never ceases to amaze me.


Is that what that was? I thought he was just burning the scabbard that ICE was in.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

vertigo235 said:


> Ice was also melted down into two swords.


At first I thought that was what the episode title was referring to. Now I see this episode as more about what the Starks have lost, and what they got back. The episode was bookended with the destruction of Ice and Arya getting Needl back. I hope this means things are going to start looking up for the Stark children left alive.

Who the %$^# am I kidding. This is GoT, there is no way things are looking up for anyone not a Lannister. 

Getting Needle back is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but how many viewers shared Arya's smirk as she was riding her new horse with her reclaimed sword in belt.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

smbaker said:


> Meh. This one felt kind of slow to me.


Seriously? Still the fastest hour ion Sunday nights.



smbaker said:


> Did they change something about Jaime Lannister's appearance (other than his armor)? I almost didn't recognize him. Something with his hair, perhaps?


Cleaned him up? Gave him a shave? Haircut? New hand?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Shaunnick said:


> Who the %$^# am I kidding. This is GoT, there is no way things are looking up for anyone not a Lannister.


You think things are looking up for the Lannisters?

They're surrounded by people who hate them (including each other), in a kingdom in chaos. They managed to create a moment when they're on top, but they've caused so much damage in doing so, how can they possibly stay there? It's not a question of whether they'll stay on top, but how fast and how hard they'll fall.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Anubys said:


> I'd love to find out why they changed actors on us.


It was his decision, according to this:

http://www.bustle.com/articles/1918...io-naharis-why-the-actor-changed-for-season-4


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Dang, now I can't remember who said it in this episode but someone said "A man has to have a code" and my brain immediately flashed "Omar!"


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Jstkiddn said:


> Arya really seemed to enjoy her revenge. ::shudder::
> 
> Good episode. Very glad it's back!


Speaking of revenge, looking forward to when Yara meets the Bolton's bastard!


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

The Hound had some of the best lines ever. 

Lots of people name their swords!

"Yeah. Those people are all C***s"


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> You think things are looking up for the Lannisters?
> 
> They're surrounded by people who hate them (including each other), in a kingdom in chaos. They managed to create a moment when they're on top, but they've caused so much damage in doing so, how can they possibly stay there? It's not a question of whether they'll stay on top, but how fast and how hard they'll fall.


Stannis is far from being able to take them out, and now with Rob's army lost and the Riverlands and the North under the control of Tywin's stooges and the Tyrells about to get in bed with them, things are looking up.

That's not to say they won't get the Robb treatment before too long. Compared to the Starks fortunes though, would one want to be a Stark or Lannister right now?


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Anubys said:


> What an evil touch for Tywin to add Direwolf pelt to the swords. The man never ceases to amaze me.





zordude said:


> Is that what that was? I thought he was just burning the scabbard that ICE was in.


I thought it was the pelt portion of Robb's coat.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

NatasNJ said:


> The Hound had some of the best lines ever.
> 
> Lots of people name their swords!
> 
> "Yeah. Those people are all C***s"


"You're going to die for some chickens?"

"Someone is."


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

I hope the person who makes the Facebook-style recaps continues doing that this season.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Jstkiddn said:


> I'm glad they did. The first guy had a creepy smile.


I know. I loved it! the stupidity of actors never ceases to amaze me. Leaving GoT to make a Transporter movie?



zordude said:


> Is that what that was? I thought he was just burning the scabbard that ICE was in.


Could be. I was just guessing. Either way, it was cold. Only Tywin would even think of such a thing. Brilliant.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Anubys said:


> I'd love to find out why they changed actors on us.


Doesn't it seem odd that they didn't at least have them look similar? (Hair, etc)

I had no concept of who that guy was until I read it here.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Yeah they apparently made no effort to cast anyone who remotely looked like fabio


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

SullyND said:


> Doesn't it seem odd that they didn't at least have them look similar? (Hair, etc)
> 
> I had no concept of who that guy was until I read it here.


I think that is why they had GreyWorm say his full name to hope you would realize who it was.

Also the previous Darios left to be a lead in a Transporter movie where he will be a younger Jason Stathom.  Think that was a bad call.
Those movies are the worse.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

Jstkiddn said:


> I'm glad they did. The first guy had a creepy smile.


:up: He was smarmy.


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## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

Anubys said:


> I know. I loved it! the stupidity of actors never ceases to amaze me. Leaving GoT to make a Transporter movie?
> 
> Could be. I was just guessing. Either way, it was cold. Only Tywin would even think of such a thing. Brilliant.


I believe it was direwolf pelt. Adds a bit of 'magic' to the making of the swords.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

billypritchard said:


> I believe it was direwolf pelt. Adds a bit of 'magic' to the making of the swords.


I was thinking that was gonna stink the room up for a while.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

It's not about adding a bit of "magic". It's symbolic: destroying House Stark in the fire (Direwolf sigil).


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> I'd marry Arya Stark if she weren't an underaged fictional character.


When I read the books I told my wife Arya is Hit Girl from the Kick Ass movie. We really saw that last night.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DUDE_NJX said:


> It's not about adding a bit of "magic". It's symbolic: destroying House Stark in the fire (Direwolf sigil).


Yeah, dire wolves aren't magic. We used to have them.


JFriday said:


> When I read the books I told my wife Arya is Hit Girl from the Kick Ass movie. We really saw that last night.


Except plausible...Hit Girl would bounce off the people she attacks. They have Arya killing much larger people in physically conceivable ways.

Which is much creepier! Watching her gently slide the sword into her victim, with that not-quite smile on her face...


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

Who knew Eat Mor Chikin meant killin' fools...


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

It was nice to see Indira Varma again (liked her in Rome). Too bad that scene didn't go where it could've...


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I know. I loved it! the stupidity of actors never ceases to amaze me. Leaving GoT to make a Transporter movie?


I don't know how things play out in the future of GoT but for now he was a bit character in a tv show with a huge cast and a limited amount of episodes. The Transporter movies must make money since they keep making them. Maybe it's more money and a better platform to launch a movie career for him than GoT is.

The guy that Arya killed was not only evil but he was too stupid to continue living. I think everybody in the inn but him got the hint that the Hound was going to kill the crap out of him if he didn't shut up.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

zordude said:


> Is that what that was? I thought he was just burning the scabbard that ICE was in.


Yea, pretty sure it was the scabbard


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> I don't know how things play out in the future of GoT but for now he was a bit character in a tv show with a huge cast and a limited amount of episodes. The Transporter movies must make money since they keep making them. Maybe it's more money and a better platform to launch a movie career for him than GoT is.


Who knows. It could turn out to be the best move made by an actor since David Caruso left NYPD Blue after one season. 

It just seems like an odd choice that they didn't make any effort to make the new actor look like the character did before. This made the change much more confusing than it had to be. The original character had long, blondish hair and was clean shaven. This guy has short, dark hair and a beard.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

jehma said:


> :up: He was smarmy.


Smarmy! That is the exact word to describe him. I hate smarmy men.



cherry ghost said:


> Yea, pretty sure it was the scabbard


IIRC, the pelt thrown in the fire was grey. That one appears to be darker. I was under the impression it was Robb's wolf, Grey Wind.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Yeah I was confused about the re-cast and I even recalled the role was being re-cast. I like the new guy better though, the other guy was a bit too pretty IMO.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Jstkiddn said:


> IIRC, the pelt thrown in the fire was grey. That one appears to be darker. I was under the impression it was Robb's wolf, Grey Wind.


The animal thrown in the fire seemed way smaller than Robb's wolf. Plus, I thought they cut the head off Robb's wolf and attached it to Robb's corpse. I could have sworn that Tywin removed the sword from the animal's mouth, so it couldn't have been Robb's wolf.


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## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

gweempose said:


> The animal thrown in the fire seemed way smaller than Robb's wolf. Plus, I thought they cut the head off Robb's wolf and attached it to Robb's corpse. I could have sworn that Tywin removed the sword from the animal's mouth, so it couldn't have been Robb's wolf.


Guys guys. Settle down. Nerds on the interwebs are going through slow motioned screen grabs and we'll soon know our answer!


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## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, dire wolves aren't magic. We used to have them.


Well, Westeros used to have dragons, and those are magic.

I have no doubt that Tywin Lannister does not believe in 'magic' and therefore it was symbolic to him. But I also know that 'magic' in Westeros does exist, and could therefore be a part of the forging of the blades.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

gweempose said:


> It just seems like an odd choice that they didn't make any effort to make the new actor look like the character did before. This made the change much more confusing than it had to be. The original character had long, blondish hair and was clean shaven. This guy has short, dark hair and a beard.


Especially since he is based on a character in a book. I would have thought they would have made both actors look like the character was described in the book, and thus they would have looked similar.

I guessed who he was in his first scene based on the weapon he was holding while competing with Grey Worm, and the name Grey Worm called him. But the fact that he looked so different made me doubt myself, and think that perhaps I was getting his name confused with someone else.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

BitbyBlit said:


> Especially since he is based on a character in a book. I would have thought they would have made both actors look like the character was described in the book, and thus they would have looked similar.
> 
> I guessed who he was in his first scene based on the weapon he was holding while competing with Grey Worm, and the name Grey Worm called him. But the fact that he looked so different made me doubt myself, and think that perhaps I was getting his name confused with someone else.


As described in the book:


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> I'd marry Arya Stark if she weren't an underaged fictional character.


Something about sharing your Needle with her?


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Take it easy, guys. She's 8 yrs old.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

I never thought the old guy looked at all like Daario, so the change doesn't bother me at all.

I'm confused, though, about all these references to "Transporter" movies. I only knew of one (and it wasn't good). Is this a typo for "Transformer" or is "Transporter" actually a series?


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Ereth said:


> I never thought the old guy looked at all like Daario, so the change doesn't bother me at all.
> 
> I'm confused, though, about all these references to "Transporter" movies. I only knew of one (and it wasn't good). Is this a typo for "Transformer" or is "Transporter" actually a series?


Do you like mindless action flicks staring an ass kicking Jason Statham who transports stuff?

If the answer is 'No, I am not interested,' I can see how you might have missed these movies.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

jehma said:


> As described in the book:


Hmmm. So when making the actors look like a character with long and dark hair, they decided to go with long xor dark hair. Okay.

I wonder if they have to pay Martin more money the closer they make the characters look to how he described them.

"Daario has long, dark hair, and is bearded. Using two out of any three of those features at any given time is included in the contract. But if you want to use all three at the same time, it's going to cost you."


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I was surprised that Arya didn't grow at all between seasons.


How much time has passed for the characters since the series began? I'm assuming the story has unfolded much more slowly than it has taken for HBO to air all the episodes. At some point, the actors playing the kids are going to get too old to play the part. For example, it would be weird if Bran's voice suddenly started changing when his character hadn't really aged very much. The actor playing him already looks quite a bit older than he did in the first season.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Yeah, I'm thinking it's getting harder and harder for Arya to pass as a boy, too.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Shaunnick said:


> Seriously? Still the fastest hour ion Sunday nights.


GoT has given me high expectations. Every episode I'm disappointed if some city isn't obliterated and at least one major character that somebody loves isn't brutally assassinated.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

I hope HBO GO works better in the coming weeks after the failures last night.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Joffrey is just the worst qualities of Tywin (and the Lannisters in general) magnified.


Which make sense when you have Lannisters mating with Lannisters to make more Lannisters.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

BitbyBlit said:


> Hmmm. So when making the actors look like a character with long and dark hair, they decided to go with long xor dark hair. Okay.
> 
> I wonder if they have to pay Martin more money the closer they make the characters look to how he described them.
> 
> "Daario has long, dark hair, and is bearded. Using two out of any three of those features at any given time is included in the contract. But if you want to use all three at the same time, it's going to cost you."


I should have added some text with the picture:


> He keeps his beard cut in three prongs, all dyed blue. His eyes are blue and his curly hair is dyed blue. His mustachios are painted gold and he has a large, curving nose. He is lithe, smooth skinned, has a golden tooth and dresses in loud colors and finery.


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## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

A bunch of random thoughts:

*Recasting of Daario:* If the character doesn't get any closer to Danerys and dies horribly by the end of this season (I haven't read the books, so this is just a guess), I can see bailing on the part for a feature movie, but only just.

*Recasting of Ice* (see what I did there?): It is possible the blacksmith who did the reforging asked for something personal from the sword's previous owner. Smiths who can work Valerian Steel are likely to be a quirky lot.

*It's good to be a Lannister:* Not so much, they may have consolidated power at the moment, but let's face it, The White Walkers are on the move in the North and the Danerys' army will be a formidable threat soon (and that army has the advantage of "close air support"). And while they have a lot of their capitol invested in the current regime, recall that the regime also has large debts to a non-Lannister bank,who could "call the note" (or sell it to Dany)

*Tywin's part in Robb's defeat"* Addmittedly the Boltons and Freys were Robb's ultimate betrayers, I'm sure Tywin's money and influence, (and his knowledge of "who to go after") was a key part. Tywin can be smug because he was able to achieve victory by "pulling the strings" and not risking any of his own family.

At least they didn't make Nikolaj Coster-Waldau have to work with a stump prosthetic, now he can deal with a glove. And it seems to me that given the metalworking skills available, one could have made prosthetic hand that could hold his newly forged sword.



DreadPirateRob said:


> Which make sense when you have Lannisters mating with Lannisters to make more Lannisters.


Alternatively: That's what happens to an overly-inbred teenager when he goes thru his rebellious years in an environment where he can legally behead anyone who says "NO!" to him


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

gweempose said:


> How much time has passed for the characters since the series began?


I don't know, but it ought to be more than real time. The journeys they routinely take last weeks or months...Westeros is big (a thousand miles from King's Landing to the Wall).


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Take it easy, guys. She's 8 yrs old.


She was somewhere between 13 and 14 when the Red Wedding occurred.

ETA: To be clear I only mention this because she is never 8 onscreen, in the first season she is 11. Not because if she is 14 then it's ok to perv on her


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I don't know, but it ought to be more than real time. The journeys they routinely take last weeks or months...Westeros is big (a thousand miles from King's Landing to the Wall).


I believe it is 3+ years at this point.



http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline said:


> 300 AL: Talisa states in Robb Stark's army camp as he leaves Riverrun for the Twins that the War of the Five Kings has lasted two years now (reinforcing the general principle that one TV season equals one year within the story continuity)


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Yeah, I think there's some 24-level stuff going on with the travel. It would have taken most of a year for Robert to get from King's Landing to Winterfell and back.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

tiassa said:


> Alternatively: That's what happens to an overly-inbred teenager when he goes thru his rebellious years in an environment where he can legally behead anyone who says "NO!" to him


It's even worse than one who can send you to the cornfield for disagreeing!


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Ereth said:


> Yeah, I'm thinking it's getting harder and harder for Arya to pass as a boy, too.


Hasn't she pretty much given up pretending to be a boy since she became Tywin's cup bearer?



gweempose said:


> How much time has passed for the characters since the series began? I'm assuming the story has unfolded much more slowly than it has taken for HBO to air all the episodes. At some point, the actors playing the kids are going to get too old to play the part. For example, it would be weird if Bran's voice suddenly started changing when his character hadn't really aged very much. The actor playing him already looks quite a bit older than he did in the first season.


Bran has aged quite a bit since the first season. Not sure how much time has passed since his "accident" and now, but I noted a huge difference in him between seasons 1 and 2.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

This recap is hilarious:
http://tvrecaps.ew.com/recap/game-of-thrones-season-4-premiere-recap/


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## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

The scene where the Hound drank down that beverage before attacking those guys totally felt like an homage to Samuel L Jackson drinking down the "tasty beverage" in Pulp Fiction.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

So which major characters from last season didn't get any time in this first episode?

Stannis/Davos/Melisandre (and I can't remember if she killed Baratheon's bastard or if he's still with them)

Bran/Hodor/Rickon/Osha/The Reeds

Theon/Ramsay Snow

Littlefinger/Varys

Anyone else that I'm forgetting?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

john4200 said:


> What did you see that made you think that was Winterfell?


The opening credits showing Winterfell burning, then The Hound saying they're not going south to King's Landing, then The Hound and Arya riding into a land that's filled with burning fires. Seemed pretty clear to me.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Stannis/Davos/Melisandre (and I can't remember if she killed Baratheon's bastard or if he's still with them)


Davos rescued him and sent him away on the rowboat. I assume we haven't seen the last of him.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

*No book spoilers!*

It occurred to me that I have no real compelling reason to stick with GoT, with most of the "hero" characters gone.

We have only 1) Arya, 2) Danerys, 3) (sorta) Tyrion, 4) Bran, and 4) John Snow

I have a feeling that 1) and 2) are going to continue to be a dragging on & On & on & On saga where they never get to the final payoff slaughter.

Ditto with 4) We may fight the "freemen" but we ain't never gonna see them white walkers.

3) Tyrion is the only bad guy that's fun to watch.

I assume it's not a spoiler that they've telegraphed that Cercie will go after Shae to give Tyrion "the taste of ashes." Let's see if he comes up with another clever way to do a payback.

Where's Varys? Littlefinger? Bran and Hodor? Semi-lord Greyjoy?


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> The opening credits showing Winterfell burning, then The Hound saying they're not going south to King's Landing, then The Hound and Arya riding into a land that's filled with burning fires. Seemed pretty clear to me.


I can see where you would be confused. They were riding east though, not north. To ride north they would have to go past Moat Cailen, which is under control of the Greyjoys, or the Twins, which is where they are riding away _from._


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

vertigo235 said:


> Yeah they apparently made no effort to cast anyone who remotely looked like fabio


I had to read a review to remember where I saw that actor before (Treme.)

He totally should be the mandatory actor to play Steve Jobs.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Shaunnick said:


> I can see where you would be confused. They were riding east though, not north. To ride north they would have to go past Moat Cailen, which is under control of the Greyjoys, or the Twins, which is where they are riding away _from._


Now that you mention it, I remember The Hound saying they were going to The Vale so he could sell Arya to her aunt, so that makes sense. Although now that he's got a taste of the plundering lifestyle, I wonder if he'll decide it's better to keep Arya and make his own money rather than sell her.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Good thing that Tywin had Tyrion marry Sansa to merge the Lannister and Stark clans, huh?

(Stark? Whasaa Stark?)

Oh yeah, she'll inherit the ash pit that is Winterfell, but Bran is still Lord.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MikeAndrews said:


> Oh yeah, she'll inherit the ash pit that is Winterfell, but Bran is still Lord.


Except Bran is technically dead (he was "murdered," and his "body" publicly displayed), so she's the heir. His "resurrection" will no doubt cause some consternation amongst the Lannisters, if they're still in a position to be, er, consterned.


----------



## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> The opening credits showing Winterfell burning, then The Hound saying they're not going south to King's Landing, then The Hound and Arya riding into a land that's filled with burning fires. Seemed pretty clear to me.


The opening montage has had Winterfell smoking since Theon sacked it. I wouldn't put more into it than that.

The burning area that the Hound went into is nowhere near Winterfell. For one, it's all fields and grain and summery, not snow and wintery.

The Red Wedding was at the Twins, in the river land, near the neck. The Vale of Arryn, where Lyssa Arryn rules is South-by-Southeast of there. They are a LONG ways south of Winterfell.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Yeah, as I said earlier, this show really requires geographical knowledge with all these different groups of characters traveling around. A map of Westeros is pretty essential if you don't already know it well, so you can keep track of where everybody is and avoid this kind of confusion.

(Essos, where Daenerys is, isn't such a problem since there's just the one group and their travels are pretty aimless in the sense that knowing where exactly she is at a given moment doesn't really matter to understanding the story.)

By the way, there's a great box of maps sold in bookstores. A little pricey, but official and VERY comprehensive, at least so far.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Ereth said:


> The opening montage has had Winterfell smoking since Theon sacked it. I wouldn't put more into it than that.
> 
> The burning area that the Hound went into is nowhere near Winterfell. For one, it's all fields and grain and summery, not snow and wintery.
> 
> The Red Wedding was at the Twins, in the river land, near the neck. The Vale of Arryn, where Lyssa Arryn rules is South-by-Southeast of there. They are a LONG ways south of Winterfell.


While I'm not disagreeing about whether that was Winterfell they were riding toward (I've already admitted I forgot they said they were going to The Vale), I think the distance thing is not definitive. As I posted before, we don't know the timing. Tyrion mentioned "weeks" in this episode, and we don't know exactly how many weeks or exactly when the start of those weeks were, but if The Hound and Arya had been riding every day for a few weeks from The Twins, then they could be significantly north of there by now.

Also, in all previous times we've seen Winterfell, it hasn't been snowy and wintery. I know the standard saying is "Winter is Coming" but it's been mentioned many times in the show that Summer has been present in Westeros for a long time, so even the area around Winterfell shouldn't look like a snowy tundra (yet).


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, as I said earlier, this show really requires geographical knowledge with all these different groups of characters traveling around. A map of Westeros is pretty essential if you don't already know it well, so you can keep track of where everybody is and avoid this kind of confusion.
> 
> (Essos, where Daenerys is, isn't such a problem since there's just the one group and their travels are pretty aimless in the sense that knowing where exactly she is at a given moment doesn't really matter to understanding the story.)
> 
> By the way, there's a great box of maps sold in bookstores. A little pricey, but official and VERY comprehensive, at least so far.


This one is gigantic, but does it seem pretty correct (at least as far as a map of a fictional place can be)?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

gweempose said:


> How much time has passed for the characters since the series began? I'm assuming the story has unfolded much more slowly than it has taken for HBO to air all the episodes. At some point, the actors playing the kids are going to get too old to play the part. For example, it would be weird if Bran's voice suddenly started changing when his character hadn't really aged very much. The actor playing him already looks quite a bit older than he did in the first season.


I just read that the actor playing Bran is now taller than the actress playing Sansa...good thing he can't walk 

Changing topics, I am very very glad that we seem to finally be heading to a future without Shae...Next to Kat, she's the other actress I hate. I want her dead.

ok. Tortured, then dead. I mean...this is GoT!


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Anubys said:


> I just read that the actor playing Bran is now taller than the actress playing Sansa...good thing he can't walk
> 
> Changing topics, I am very very glad that we seem to finally be heading to a future without Shae...Next to Kat, she's the other actress I hate. I want her dead.
> 
> ok. Tortured, then dead. I mean...this is GoT!


That great archer, Jeffy, gets more live target practice.


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Has it ever been explained in the TV show why the Wildlings can't just sail boats around the wall instead of climbing over it? If you look at the map, there are clearly mountains to the west and the sea to the East. I believe in this episode the freaky looking Wildling guy said something about how his group took another route. I wonder what exactly he meant by that.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> This one is gigantic, but does it seem pretty correct (at least as far as a map of a fictional place can be)?


Looks good...it doesn't have a ton of places listed on it, but they seem to be the right places (as opposed to the maps in the books, which are terrible). I hate reading the book, finding a place mentioned in it, flipping to the map...and it's not on it. That's why I ended up getting the Big Honkin' Box o' Maps (not the exact actual title, I think).


Anubys said:


> I just read that the actor playing Bran is now taller than the actress playing Sansa...good thing he can't walk


As long as he doesn't dream about hanging out with her, they should be OK...


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Honest Trailer: Game of Thrones Seasons 1-3

Barely SFW, considering all the naughty bits are black-boxed, but as DevdogAZ suggests below, better safe than sorry.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

gweempose said:


> Has it ever been explained in the TV show why the Wildlings can't just sail boats around the wall instead of climbing over it? If you look at the map, there are clearly mountains to the west and the sea to the East. I believe in this episode the freaky looking Wildling guy said something about how his group took another route. I wonder what exactly he meant by that.


The one group of Night's Watch on the coast actually has boats dedicated to monitoring ships coming down from the north. The wildlings would have to swing way out into sea and back again to get south. Which means building something better than a raft. As Ygritte has demonstrated with her castle comment, the wildlings are not known for building complex structures.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> [Link to video removed]
> 
> Barely SFW, considering all the naughty bits are black-boxed.


Given the screen grab they chose as the static pic for that video, I'd say it's NSFW as is. Probably best to just put a link.

But great video. I love "Sir Friend Zone."


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Looks good...it doesn't have a ton of places listed on it, but they seem to be the right places (as opposed to the maps in the books, which are terrible). I hate reading the book, finding a place mentioned in it, flipping to the map...and it's not on it. That's why I ended up getting the Big Honkin' Box o' Maps (not the exact actual title, I think).


I found several others, including the Official Map of Westeros, but they're mostly a little too small to really see the detail.


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## ozzman73 (Nov 27, 2006)

I have an app on my tablet that allows you to search for a place by name, zoom in and out, etc. It also have details on some cities.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Two additional thoughts nobody has mentioned yet:

The drunken former-knight gives a precious family heirloom, a necklace, to Sansa. This is just after the Queen of Thorns is making a stink about how all the necklaces they've seen so far are not spectacular enough for the wedding. So are we to suspect that when Queen of Thorns sees Sansa wearing that necklace, she's going to be very unhappy that Sansa's necklace seems to be upstaging Margaery. That won't go well for Sansa (nothing ever does).

What was with the dead girl on the mile marker leading to Meereen? Was that the Meereen way of saying, "Don't come this way or we'll sacrifice all the slaves that you're coming to free?"


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> Two additional thoughts nobody has mentioned yet:
> 
> The drunken former-knight gives a precious family heirloom, a necklace, to Sansa. This is just after the Queen of Thorns is making a stink about how all the necklaces they've seen so far are not spectacular enough for the wedding. So are we to suspect that when Queen of Thorns sees Sansa wearing that necklace, she's going to be very unhappy that Sansa's necklace seems to be upstaging Margaery. That won't go well for Sansa (nothing ever does).
> 
> What was with the dead girl on the mile marker leading to Meereen? Was that the Meereen way of saying, "Don't come this way or we'll sacrifice all the slaves that you're coming to free?"


Since the body was pointing to Meereen I think it was more of a, "Bring it!" kind of taunt. They are saying they are not afraid of Dany.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> You think things are looking up for the Lannisters?
> 
> They're surrounded by people who hate them (including each other)


I think this is pretty much standard living for the Lannisters--they don't put in a lot of time being charming and personable. 



billypritchard said:


> I believe it was direwolf pelt. Adds a bit of 'magic' to the making of the swords.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, dire wolves aren't magic. We used to have them.
> 
> .


Ok--what is a direwolf really? Is it a real animal or a made up thing? I thought that even in Winterfell it was surprising to find the direwolf and her pups. So are there direwolf pelts just lying around? Ned could have used the pelt of the dead mother to adorn Ice, or it could be Grey Wind? Or I guess Cercei could have held on to Lady's pelt?



Shaunnick said:


> The one group of Night's Watch on the coast actually has boats dedicated to monitoring ships coming down from the north. The wildlings would have to swing way out into sea and back again to get south. Which means building something better than a raft. As Ygritte has demonstrated with her castle comment, the wildlings are not known for building complex structures.


Plus the waters in the north--this is way north--are going to be rough, especially with Winter coming.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> Two additional thoughts nobody has mentioned yet:
> 
> The drunken former-knight gives a precious family heirloom, a necklace, to Sansa. This is just after the Queen of Thorns is making a stink about how all the necklaces they've seen so far are not spectacular enough for the wedding. So are we to suspect that when Queen of Thorns sees Sansa wearing that necklace, she's going to be very unhappy that Sansa's necklace seems to be upstaging Margaery. That won't go well for Sansa (nothing ever does).
> 
> What was with the dead girl on the mile marker leading to Meereen? Was that the Meereen way of saying, "Don't come this way or we'll sacrifice all the slaves that you're coming to free?"


that was a cheap necklace from a minor house. It's probably not something one of their servants would wear!

I have a link to an awesome map but only have it on my work computer. I'll post it tomorrow.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

found it!

linky

Edit: *WARNING Quoting Shannick: People should be very careful with that link. You can see character paths to the end of the books written so far. There are a couple who have paths that tip their destiny.*


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> ...Ok--what is a direwolf really? Is it a real animal or a made up thing? I thought that even in Winterfell it was surprising to find the direwolf and her pups. So are there direwolf pelts just lying around? Ned could have used the pelt of the dead mother to adorn Ice, or it could be Grey Wind? Or I guess Cercei could have held on to Lady's pelt?
> ...


I looked it up last season.  
Dire Wolves were real but they've been extinct for 10,000 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dire_wolf


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Anubys said:


> found it!
> 
> linky


Yes, that one is pretty awesome, and the interactivity is excellent. Thanks for linking.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

MikeAndrews said:


> I looked it up last season.
> Dire Wolves were real but they've been extinct for 10,000 years.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dire_wolf


Yeah, if you ever go to the La Brea Tar Pits, they've got all sorts of giant dire wolf skeletons on display there.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> While I'm not disagreeing about whether that was Winterfell they were riding toward (I've already admitted I forgot they said they were going to The Vale), I think the distance thing is not definitive. As I posted before, we don't know the timing. Tyrion mentioned "weeks" in this episode, and we don't know exactly how many weeks or exactly when the start of those weeks were, but if The Hound and Arya had been riding every day for a few weeks from The Twins, then they could be significantly north of there by now.
> 
> Also, in all previous times we've seen Winterfell, it hasn't been snowy and wintery. I know the standard saying is "Winter is Coming" but it's been mentioned many times in the show that Summer has been present in Westeros for a long time, so even the area around Winterfell shouldn't look like a snowy tundra (yet).


Really? All those guys in thick fur coats doesn't seem "wintery" to you? Sure there's not as much snow as there is by the wall, which is pretty much how they differentiate one another.

But the Hound and Arya had no reason to go NORTH at all. Their destination is East-by-Southeast of where they started.

Perhaps this will help:


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Ereth said:


> Really? All those guys in thick fur coats doesn't seem "wintery" to you? Sure there's not as much snow as there is by the wall, which is pretty much how they differentiate one another.
> 
> But the Hound and Arya had no reason to go NORTH at all. Their destination is East-by-Southeast of where they started.
> 
> Perhaps this will help:


Like I said, I'm not disagreeing about where The Hound and Arya are going. I've looked at the maps (discussed extensively above) and I now have a better understanding of the geography.

As for Winterfell, it always looked to me like what most of the northern US would look like in autumn, after the leaves have fallen. Mostly gray and bleak, but no snow. That final shot of this episode also looked gray and bleak, and could easily have been depicting Winterfell (although I know that it wasn't).

Winterfell, as shown in S01E01:










Whereever The Hound and Arya are now:


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Ereth said:


> ...But the Hound and Arya had no reason to go NORTH at all. Their destination is East-by-Southeast of where they started.
> 
> Perhaps this will help:


The Hound took in Arya in the fight _before the wedding_ and took her to The Towers to reunite her at the wedding with The Starks and get his reward. 
Now he wants to get paid by Aunty in the Vale of Arryn.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

You are right about that chronology. I labelled that poorly.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> Yes, that one is pretty awesome, and the interactivity is excellent. Thanks for linking.


I love that map. I just wish it had an index. I cannot find Dorne anywhere. I found the Sea of Dorne, but no city or area called Dorne.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I love that map. I just wish it had an index. I cannot find Dorne anywhere. I found the Sea of Dorne, but no city or area called Dorne.


In some of the other maps I looked at, including the ones I linked above, it lists Dorne down at the southeast part of the continent. There is also the area called "Dornish Marches" in the south central part of the continent. So Dorne is definitely the southernmost part, but I was unclear what the boundaries were.

Edit: Here's what it says at westeros.org:



> Dorne is the large peninsula which makes up the southern-most part of Westeros, and is one of the constituent regions of the Seven Kingdoms. Its capital is Sunspear and the lords of the ruling House Martell still style themselves "Prince" and "Princess" in the Rhoynish fashion.


And the map from there:


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

thanks...so it's the area below the sea of Dorne but they don't actually have a city named Dorne...

looks like they have a lot of mountains and quite a bit of desert...

Tyrion sent Cersei's daughter to marry a prince there, right? do we know who?


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Anubys said:


> Tyrion sent Cersei's daughter to marry a prince there, right? do we know who?


Trystane Martell, son of Doran Martell, the Prince of Dorne. We've never seen Trystane or Doran in the TV show. Trystane is the nephew of Oberyn Martell, who we saw in this episode for the first time.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Anubys said:


> found it!
> 
> linky


People should be very careful with that link. You can see character paths to the end of the books written so far. There are a couple who have paths that tip their destiny.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Shaunnick said:


> People should be very careful with that link. You can see character paths to the end of the books written so far. There are a couple who have paths that tip their destiny.


Just make sure you set the slider to the correct point and you'll avoid spoilers. The problem is, for TV only watchers, it's difficult to decipher what the book chapter labels of the slider corresponds to in the TV show.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

You can switch it to episodes for the TV show


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

vertigo235 said:


> You can switch it to episodes for the TV show


You can indeed. Very cool!


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

One thing I keep forgetting to mention is that this is the first time we've ever seen anyone (Jaime in this case) say "no" to Tywin!

You could say that Tyrion has been saying that to him for years. I counter by saying "not to his face"!


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Shaunnick said:


> People should be very careful with that link. You can see character paths to the end of the books written so far. There are a couple who have paths that tip their destiny.


This - I accidentally FF to the end of the show and inadvertently learned about a few characters future timelines. :-/


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Shaunnick said:


> People should be very careful with that link. You can see character paths to the end of the books written so far. There are a couple who have paths that tip their destiny.


Your are absolutely correct. I edited my post to add your warning. For anyone quoting that post, please edit your post to add the warning!


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

smbaker said:


> GoT has given me high expectations. Every episode I'm disappointed if some city isn't obliterated and at least one major character that somebody loves isn't brutally assassinated.


Reminds me of when I used to watch The Sopranos and people would say the episode was bad because nobody got whacked!

I thought it was an excellent setup episode for the season and definitely whet my appetite for more.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Which make sense when you have Lannisters mating with Lannisters to make more Lannisters.


Considering that Joffrey is the result of two siblings mating, it's not surprising he's crazy in the head.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> Considering that Joffrey is the result of two siblings mating, it's not surprising he's crazy in the head.


Yes, but my point is that his crazy isn't unique to him...he's typical Lannister crazy, only more extreme. But all his characteristics also exist in his kin.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

On Jaime, I also didn't recognize him at first, until I saw he had no hand. For most of the last 2 seasons he's had longer hair and beard/mustache. Clean shaven Jaime just looks much different.


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Anubys said:


> One thing I keep forgetting to mention is that this is the first time we've ever seen anyone (Jaime in this case) say "no" to Tywin!


That was a great scene. I think I may have let out an audible gasp when Jaime said "no".


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

gweempose said:


> That was a great scene. I think I may have let out an audible gasp when Jaime said "no".


The look on Tywin's face was great.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

It looks like they rehired the 13 year old GoT nudity consultant.
It also means there won't be any more this season.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> On Jaime, I also didn't recognize him at first, until I saw he had no hand. For most of the last 2 seasons he's had longer hair and beard/mustache. Clean shaven Jaime just looks much different.


He looks like he has lost a lot of weight.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

vertigo235 said:


> He looks like he has lost a lot of weight.


How much does a hand weigh?


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

john4200 said:


> How much does a hand weigh?


Much less than one made from gold.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

john4200 said:


> How much does a hand weigh?


Tywin looks like he goes about 170...


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Oh, and did anyone else pick up on Cersei thanking Qyburn for his treatment of her condition, and how she brushed it off when Jaime asked her about it?

Apparently Westoros has its own version of Plan B.


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> On Jaime, I also didn't recognize him at first, until I saw he had no hand. For most of the last 2 seasons he's had longer hair and beard/mustache. Clean shaven Jaime just looks much different.


He does look very different. I much prefer him with longer hair and a bit of the scruff on his face, which is odd because I'm usually not a long hair/scruff on face type of girl. Oddly enough, I feel the same way about the guy who plays Aragorn in Lord of the Rings. To me when he's clean cut, he looks odd. Same goes for Jaime.


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> On Jaime, I also didn't recognize him at first, until I saw he had no hand. For most of the last 2 seasons he's had longer hair and beard/mustache. Clean shaven Jaime just looks much different.


Yeah, at first I wondered if it was a different actor.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Daenerys probably had to change her drawers right after the dragon snapped at her.


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> Daenerys probably had to change her drawers right after the dragon snapped at her.


I would've LOVED if it bit her head off at that moment!


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> Daenerys probably had to change her drawers right after the dragon snapped at her.


I admit I'm wayyy too impatient, but I'm ready for Dany to kick some Lannister ass.


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> I admit I'm wayyy too impatient, but I'm ready for Dany to kick some Lannister ass.


Especially since she's the only one left with an army.


----------



## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

Jstkiddn said:


> He does look very different. I much prefer him with longer hair and a bit of the scruff on his face, which is odd because I'm usually not a long hair/scruff on face type of girl. Oddly enough, I feel the same way about the guy who plays Aragorn in Lord of the Rings. To me when he's clean cut, he looks odd. Same goes for Jaime.


I definitely prefer scruffy Jaime.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> I admit I'm wayyy too impatient, but I'm ready for Dany to kick some Lannister ass.


Better, start with the dragons thawing out the white walkers.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

MikeAndrews said:


> Better, start with the dragons thawing out the white walkers.


Would that result in a Tsunami in Westeros?


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Anubys said:


> found it!
> 
> linky
> 
> Edit: *WARNING Quoting Shannick: People should be very careful with that link. You can see character paths to the end of the books written so far. There are a couple who have paths that tip their destiny.*


Wow, that map was enlightening. I realized how completely wrong I was about where everything was going on. I had looked at a map to get a general idea of where the main cities were before, but I didn't realize that Robb had gotten that close to Casterly Rock. I thought he was further east. And Catelyn traveled much further with Renly that I had imagined as well. I thought they had pretty much stayed in the same general area. I also didn't realize that Tywin was right next to the Green Fork when Tyrion met up with him after leaving The Eyrie. I thought he was further east of the river since I had thought the idea of crossing at The Twins was to avoid him and get to Jaime, but the map seems to put him slightly west of it. And I didn't know Tywin and Tyrion had traveled at all in episode 10 of season 1.

I'll have to follow that map on my next re-watch of the series.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

john4200 said:


> How much does a hand weigh?





Rob Helmerichs said:


> Tywin looks like he goes about 170...


:up: got it!


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Wow! Peter Dinklage could buy an electric car at Toys-R-Us!

http://www.buzzfeed.com/lyapalater/seeing-the-game-of-thrones-cast-as-normal-humans-is-still-co


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

DUDE_NJX said:


> I would've LOVED if it bit her head off at that moment!


NO!!! She is one of my favorite characters!!!



Steveknj said:


> I admit I'm wayyy too impatient, but I'm ready for Dany to kick some Lannister ass.


YES!!! I agree.

Gerry


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Gerryex said:


> NO!!! She is one of my favorite characters!!!


Exactly. That's why GRRM should grow some balls and get rid of her already!


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Exactly. That's why GRRM should grow some balls and get rid of her already!


I'm sure he'll get around to it. There are probably more popular characters that will get offed first.


----------



## ozzman73 (Nov 27, 2006)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Exactly. That's why GRRM should grow some balls and get rid of her already!


I'm not saying it won't happen, but then the series would be called:

A Song of Ice and Flowers (or any variation of that, without juxtaposition)


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Are there not enough decent archers/crossbowmen in Kings Landing to take out 3 dragons, though?

I'd be more concerned with the ghost-demon dark magic killer or the zombie type thingies. Little Dany is way to cocky with her pets.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Those dragons have really grown since last season. Was Dragon or whatever his name is significantly bigger than the other 2? I think the time for killing them with an arrow is past. Maybe you could put out a poisoned calf or lamb?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Are there not enough decent archers/crossbowmen in Kings Landing to take out 3 dragons, though?


There weren't enough archers in all of Westeros to stop three dragons and 1600 soldiers when the Targaryens first conquered the place...


----------



## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

DUDE_NJX said:


> I would've LOVED if it bit her head off at that moment!


<Chris Rock> That Dragon didn't go crazy, that Dragon went Dragon!</Chris Rock>


----------



## AeneaGames (May 2, 2009)

Steveknj said:


> I admit I'm wayyy too impatient, but I'm ready for Dany to kick some Lannister ass.


At the speed this is going we will see that in season 7!


----------



## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

HBO announced today that they've renewed Game of Thrones for 2 more seasons, 5 and 6. Unusual move for them as they almost never renew more than one season at a time.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> The look on Tywin's face was great.


Knowing Tywin, Jaime's "No" was NOT the end of that conversation!



Shaunnick said:


> Oh, and did anyone else pick up on Cersei thanking Qyburn for his treatment of her condition, and how she brushed it off when Jaime asked her about it?
> 
> Apparently Westoros has its own version of Plan B.


YES! I'm so glad you mentioned that. I absolutely think it was an abortion.



Steveknj said:


> I admit I'm wayyy too impatient, but I'm ready for Dany to kick some Lannister ass.


Remember what Melissandre said. It won't be Danny killing the Lanisters, it will be Stanis. She told Stannis that he will sit on the throne (I wonder if his head will be attached, though). If that is true, and I have no reason to think it is not, then Danny will not give you that pleasure


----------



## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Ereth said:


> HBO announced today that they've renewed Game of Thrones for 2 more seasons, 5 and 6. Unusual move for them as they almost never renew more than one season at a time.


Maybe by then GRRM will have more source material to script from...


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

kaszeta said:


> Maybe by then GRRM will have more source material to script from...


Since he sat down with the show runners in the off season and gave them the map of everything that happens, including who ultimately ends up on the Iron Throne, they don't actually have to wait for him. They have the roadmap.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Ereth said:


> HBO announced today that they've renewed Game of Thrones for 2 more seasons, 5 and 6. Unusual move for them as they almost never renew more than one season at a time.


Not unusual if they were able to save some money, can you imagine a scenario that doesn't have the show going at least another 2 seasons?


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

vertigo235 said:


> Not unusual if they were able to save some money, can you imagine a scenario that doesn't have the show going at least another 2 seasons?


With this author, I can think of exactly one scenario: Whitewalker domination.

And I would not put it past him.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Author isn't running the show though.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> Remember what Melissandre said. It won't be Danny killing the Lanisters, it will be Stanis. She told Stannis that he will sit on the throne (I wonder if his head will be attached, though). If that is true, and I have no reason to think it is not, then Danny will not give you that pleasure


Well, Melisandre isn't perfect. As she herself admits, what she sees is open to interpretation.

After all, Littlefinger sat on the throne.


----------



## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

vertigo235 said:


> Not unusual if they were able to save some money, can you imagine a scenario that doesn't have the show going at least another 2 seasons?


It's unusual in that HBO never does that. They have renewed every year for 1 season at a time. It's unusual for HBO to do 2, even though we all know it's going to go to 7, and have since season 1.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Gerryex said:


> NO!!! She is one of my favorite characters!!!
> 
> Gerry


Help me understand this. Dany seems to be the favorite character of many viewers, and I just don't see what's so great about her. As one who hasn't read the books, she just seems like a petulant child most of the time, and I'm sure it will be great if/when she and her dragons and her army go attack Westeros, but for now, it just seems like a big tease.



Ereth said:


> Since he sat down with the show runners in the off season and gave them the map of everything that happens, including who ultimately ends up on the Iron Throne, they don't actually have to wait for him. They have the roadmap.


I think I read/heard somewhere that it's now a foregone conclusion by all involved that the show will end before the book series does, so I guess we have to assume that GRRM has given them the roadmap. It will ultimately be interesting to see if the show does end first, and if the 6th and 7th books ever get published, how different the show is from the last couple books.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Help me understand this. Dany seems to be the favorite character of many viewers, and I just don't see what's so great about her. As one who hasn't read the books, she just seems like a petulant child most of the time, and I'm sure it will be great if/when she and her dragons and her army go attack Westeros, but for now, it just seems like a big tease


She's Blonde beautiful and was naked a lot in the first season.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

JFriday said:


> She's Blonde beautiful and was naked a lot in the first season.


Sure, that was great. But it was a long time ago and she hasn't done much but march around the desert recently. There was that one scene in S3 where she freed the slaves and killed the slavers. That was pretty cool. But other than that, it's been 2+ seasons since there's been anything very interesting from her.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Dany's storyline was very intriguing from the very beginning because she went through so much and evolved so much as a character in the first season. Unfortunately, since then she hasn't done as much, but that's a fault of the story and not the character. I think most people presume that she will ultimately play *the* major part in the denouement of this saga, so a lot of the appeal of her as a character is her potential.

Besides, at this point, she's one of the few characters left to root for that have heroic qualities.


----------



## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think I read/heard somewhere that it's now a foregone conclusion by all involved that the show will end before the book series does, so I guess we have to assume that GRRM has given them the roadmap. It will ultimately be interesting to see if the show does end first, and if the 6th and 7th books ever get published, how different the show is from the last couple books.


We don't have to assume. GRRM has told us so in so many words. Benison and Weiss have confirmed it. (they won't tell you how it ends, though, so don't ask).

The book and the show have diverged greatly even in Season One, but George RR Martin is on board with those changes.

The guy who fought Khal Drogo and gave him the wound that ultimately killed him, back in season one? He's still alive and causing problems in the books.


----------



## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

JFriday said:


> She's Blonde beautiful and was naked a lot in the first season.





DreadPirateRob said:


> Dany's storyline was very intriguing from the very beginning because she went through so much and evolved so much as a character in the first season. Unfortunately, since then she hasn't done as much, but that's a fault of the story and not the character. I think most people presume that she will ultimately play *the* major part in the denouement of this saga, so a lot of the appeal of her as a character is her potential.
> 
> Besides, at this point, she's one of the few characters left to root for that have heroic qualities.


The above!! Initially she was forced (arranged for political reasons - I think to make an alliance between the two families) to marry the head of a barbarian society (I forget all the names of the peoples and the various societies they come from) and she was very unsure of herself. And she was not liked by most of her new family. But slowly she began to gain their trust until the big guy died (was he killed in combat - I forget). Then she became the head of the family and has been trying to build an army and at the same time ended up freeing many slaves. So she seems to be one of the "good guys!" Ultimately her army will be pitted against I assume the Lanisters and it should prove interesting. But I just like how her character behaves in trying to free the slaves but also being confident and strong when needed.

Gerry


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Ereth said:


> HBO announced today that they've renewed Game of Thrones for 2 more seasons, 5 and 6. Unusual move for them as they almost never renew more than one season at a time.


That'll happen when viewer ratings the season premiere beat all records.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Ereth said:


> It's unusual in that HBO never does that. They have renewed every year for 1 season at a time. It's unusual for HBO to do 2, even though we all know it's going to go to 7, and have since season 1.


When a show has production costs like this they need to know that they can invest in sets and such and recover the costs over the future seasons.

Dragons ain't cheap.


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Is this appropriate to post here? No spoilers that I can see, but a list of random "facts" about the show and cast. I found some of them interesting.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/49-things-you-never-knew-about-game-of-thrones-that-will-blo?bffb


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

MikeAndrews said:


> When a show has production costs like this they need to know that they can invest in sets and such and recover the costs over the future seasons.
> 
> Dragons ain't cheap.


I don't get why 30 seconds of CGIed dragons is such a huge expense. Are computers that expensive still?!


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I don't get why 30 seconds of CGIed dragons is such a huge expense. Are computers that expensive still?!


If Dragonheart could've been made for $57 mil in 1996(!) and the dragon CGI still looks great today, I think the GoT guys just use it as a lazy excuse.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

there are 2 more things I want to mention that don't have anything to do with discussions so far

1. Also missing so far (in addition to people like Theon, Bran, et al) is Blackfish. I feel like he will still have a role to play. 

2. I was surprised The Hound did not take all 5 horses. Why leave such valuable property to the innkeeper?


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Anubys said:


> 1. Also missing so far (in addition to people like Theon, Bran, et al) is Blackfish. I feel like he will still have a role to play.


Speaking of that family, I've often wondered if Edmure survived his wedding night. Is he alive or dead? Neither was made clear to me at the end of last season.


----------



## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Anubys said:


> 2. I was surprised The Hound did not take all 5 horses. Why leave such valuable property to the innkeeper?


Riding a horse is one thing. Herding along all five horses is probably more trouble to him than its worth... Primarily, he's trying to get Arya to The Eyrie.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Jstkiddn said:


> Speaking of that family, I've often wondered if Edmure survived his wedding night. Is he alive or dead? Neither was made clear to me at the end of last season.


Well, Lord Frey did say he spent his wedding night rotting in a dungeon. He could have just as easily killed him. Edmure is weak and stupid. I expect Frey will send him back to rule Riverrun but will be firmly under Frey's control.


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I should think a couple extra horses would be awesome if you're trying to get somewhere far away.


----------



## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

MikeAndrews said:


> When a show has production costs like this they need to know that they can invest in sets and such and recover the costs over the future seasons.
> 
> Dragons ain't cheap.


As the others said, I'm not sure the dragons are _that_ expensive, but they've also got a rather large number of sets and a lot of location shots spread over several countries (Ireland, Iceland, Scotland, Croatia, Malta, Morocco ...). Heck, the list of filming locations for GoT approaches _The Fall_ in extent.

And some of the sets are non-trivial. Castle Black, for example, is a surprisingly full set including a several hundred foot wall with a working winch (it's in a quarry).


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

heySkippy said:


> I should think a couple extra horses would be awesome if you're trying to get somewhere far away.


Plus, these are tame and trained horses. You tie them to a rope and they will follow single-file. :shrug: I don't want to make a federal case out of it. It's a very minor nit-pick. Arya complained of not having her own horse and then she got one.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, Melisandre isn't perfect. As she herself admits, what she sees is open to interpretation.
> 
> After all, Littlefinger sat on the throne.


Not to mention, she wants to say what Stannis wants to hear, or she could wind up with her head on a stake.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> Not to mention, she wants to say what Stannis wants to hear, or she could wind up with her head on a stake.


well, she sought him out because she saw that he would eventually win the throne. So I don't think she's lying. The Lord of Light seems real enough, so I'm expecting the vision to be true.

Mind you, I keep saying that he may be sitting on the throne, but he may not have a head. I think the vision is true but I suspect it's going to be a "deal with the devil" kind of true.


----------



## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Dany's storyline was very intriguing from the very beginning because she went through so much and evolved so much as a character in the first season....Besides, at this point, she's one of the few characters left to root for that have heroic qualities.


Exactly. I found Dany to be boring to start with, but by the end of season one she was easily one of my favorite characters. I certainly agree that more recently her storyline has slowed to a crawl, but even so, at this point she is one of very few characters who seem to care about the welfare of anyone other than themselves.


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Jstkiddn said:


> Is this appropriate to post here? No spoilers that I can see, but a list of random "facts" about the show and cast. I found some of them interesting.
> 
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/49-things-you-never-knew-about-game-of-thrones-that-will-blo?bffb


So Shae's a porn star. Gonna have to find some of those movies ...


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

gweempose said:


> So Shae's a porn star. Gonna have to find some of those movies ...


Actually, there are quite a few. Six, to be exact.

I ran across this a few days ago. There are some slight casting spoilers, as they have not all appeared on screen yet. I personally didn't see anything that would "spoil" the show for me, but proceed at your own risk. Some of them are listed in the official cast, but it hasn't been revealed what parts they will play. Others are already cast for certain roles, but since I haven't read past book one, the character names really mean nothing to me. No plot points are given away.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2014/04/08/game-thrones-porn-star-cast-members-revealed/


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Jstkiddn said:


> Actually, there are quite a few. Six, to be exact.
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2014/04/08/game-thrones-porn-star-cast-members-revealed/


I thought you meant she had 6 movies.

/disappointed


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)




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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

zordude said:


> I thought you meant she had 6 movies.
> 
> /disappointed


But just think! That gives you five more actresses to look up! 

The Mario mushroom meme...... :up::up::up:


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

zordude said:


> I thought you meant she had 6 movies.
> 
> /disappointed


She has a few out there.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Jstkiddn said:


> Is this appropriate to post here? No spoilers that I can see, but a list of random "facts" about the show and cast. I found some of them interesting.
> 
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/49-things-you-never-knew-about-game-of-thrones-that-will-blo?bffb
> 
> The actor who plays Theon, Alfie Allen, is the brother of Lily Allen. She even wrote this nice little song about him smoking weed all the time:


Bolton's Bastard took care of one of those problems.

It looks like she loves her little brother. but she could have been nice enough to use another name in the song. The puppet even looks like Alfie.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

MikeAndrews said:


> Bolton's Bastard took care of one of those problems.
> 
> It looks like she loves her little brother. but she could have been nice enough to use another name in the song. The puppet even looks like Alfie.


I know that song and I had NO idea (Lily Allen is one of my guilty pleasure listens, her songs are..ummmm..interesting).


----------



## ducker (Feb 21, 2006)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Dany's storyline was very intriguing from the very beginning because she went through so much and evolved so much as a character in the first season. Unfortunately, since then she hasn't done as much, but that's a fault of the story and not the character. I think most people presume that she will ultimately play *the* major part in the denouement of this saga, so a lot of the appeal of her as a character is her potential.
> 
> Besides, at this point, she's one of the few characters left to root for that have heroic qualities.


She has overcome so much from being controlled by her brother, and married off; and then turning her husband as well as the people to side with her as well. Sure once he died, she lost a lot of that control, but then has moved on to take over additional cities.

She's one of only a handful of characters that have some degree of magic within them - which is also very cool!


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

MikeAndrews said:


> Dragons ain't cheap.


Actually, I hear they work for scale.


----------



## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

danterner said:


> Actually, I hear they work for scale.


I SO wish I had thought of that. That is just awesome.


----------



## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

danterner said:


> Actually, I hear they work for scale.


Awesome.


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

danterner said:


> Actually, I hear they work for scale.


Nice! :up:


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

danterner said:


> Actually, I hear they work for scale.


True, but their handlers are expensive. The cheaper ones usually aren't that good at controlling them, and end up getting fired.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

BitbyBlit said:


> True, but their handlers are expensive. The cheaper ones usually aren't that good at controlling them, and end up getting fired.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

john4200 said:


>


They used an actual flame thrower when they filmed that.

-----

Tywin melts down Ned's "Ice" sword which has to have been there since Season 1. It had nothing to do with killing the other Starks. I guess Jeffy saved it for Gramps?


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

They did have to get someone to come to the city that could rework valyrian steel


----------



## dmaneyapanda (Jan 16, 2000)

I believe the master smith who reworked the sword was already in the city - he was Tobho Mott, the blacksmith who apprenticed Gendry, the bastard son of King Robert.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

dmaneyapanda said:


> I believe the master smith who reworked the sword was already in the city - he was Tobho Mott, the blacksmith who apprenticed Gendry, the bastard son of King Robert.


Careful. You're mixing up book knowledge with what has been revealed in show. In-show, Tywin said only three smiths were left in the world who could rework Valyrian steel, and the best was in King's landing at his request. He came from a foreign land.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

*5 Chickens
*
Just don't ask:

_"Mr. The Hound, would you like Original Recipe Chicken or the Chicken with the FIRE Hot BBQ sauce?"
_

*SWOOOSH!*


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

allan said:


> Especially since she's the only one left with an army.


And what is Mance? Chopped liver? I think he currently has the largest army. As I recall, Robb had 20k, the Lannisters had 80k(?) and Renly had 100k. Stannis took all of Renly's army (minus the Tyrells) and got most of them killed. The Lannisters gained the Tyrells but certainly lost a huge number in the siege.

Mance, on the other hand, has 100k in his army. It would certainly be interesting if he were the one to displace the Lannisters. Dragons vs giants would be interesting.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Shaunnick said:


> Careful. You're mixing up book knowledge with what has been revealed in show. In-show, Tywin said only three smiths were left in the world who could rework Valyrian steel, and the best was in King's landing at his request. He came from a foreign land.


What do you mean he's mixing up book knowledge? We saw the guy in both S1E4 and S4E1, so we can see it's the same guy. We know Gendry is Robert's bastard, and I'm pretty sure at one point the word "apprentice" was used in reference to Gendry. The only thing I don't think was revealed was the Armorer's name (probably not a big deal, unless that name later comes up in a manner in which we aren't yet supposed to know who is being talked about)

Edit: You are correct that Tywin said that, but are these not the same person?










Certainly looks like it to me? So what happened here. Did the smith flee to Volantis when the Lannisters took over and Tywin brought him back?


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

If he fled to Volantis, it was after he was tortured for info on Gendry's whereabouts in S2E1. I think it's a different guy.


----------



## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

cherry ghost said:


> If he fled to Volantis, it was after he was tortured for info on Gendry's whereabouts in S2E1. I think it's a different guy.


Yeah, even looks likes a slightly different actor.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

LordKronos said:


> And what is Mance? Chopped liver? I think he currently has the largest army. As I recall, Robb had 20k, the Lannisters had 80k(?) and Renly had 100k. Stannis took all of Renly's army (minus the Tyrells) and got most of them killed. The Lannisters gained the Tyrells but certainly lost a huge number in the siege.
> 
> Mance, on the other hand, has 100k in his army. It would certainly be interesting if he were the one to displace the Lannisters. Dragons vs giants would be interesting.


I seem to recall Jon Snow saying Mance had 200,000

Will have to watch the episode again to make sure. It's first on my Friday night watch list.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

LordKronos said:


> And what is Mance? Chopped liver? I think he currently has the largest army. As I recall, Robb had 20k, the Lannisters had 80k(?) and Renly had 100k. Stannis took all of Renly's army (minus the Tyrells) and got most of them killed. The Lannisters gained the Tyrells but certainly lost a huge number in the siege.
> 
> Mance, on the other hand, has 100k in his army. It would certainly be interesting if he were the one to displace the Lannisters. Dragons vs giants would be interesting.


The difference being that Mance has 200,000 thousand wildlings, not soldiers. In that 200,000 are kids, non fighting mothers, old people, and several warring tribes who hate each other (for instance, no one likes the Thenns seen in this week's episode. They may have the numbers, but in a bad situation they are not disciplined enough to take on a smaller but well trained army.

I would take Dany's 8000 unsullied to the 200,000 Mance has.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Shaunnick said:


> The difference being that Mance has 200,000 thousand wildlings, not soldiers. In that 200,000 are kids, non fighting mothers, old people, and several warring tribes who hate each other (for instance, no one likes the Thenns seen in this week's episode. They may have the numbers, but in a bad situation they are not disciplined enough to take on a smaller but well trained army.
> 
> I would take Dany's 8000 unsullied to the 200,000 Mance has.


Jon Snow? is that you?


----------



## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think I read/heard somewhere that it's now a foregone conclusion by all involved that the show will end before the book series does, so I guess we have to assume that GRRM has given them the roadmap. It will ultimately be interesting to see if the show does end first, and if the 6th and 7th books ever get published, how different the show is from the last couple books.


I'm still holding out hope that somehow the book comes out first. It's funny to think, however, that for years, we've seen complaints of book readers spoiling things for non-book readers and this situation could very well lead to the reverse for those book readers who choose to sit out the last season until after the book is published and consumed.


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

So how many books have been written so far, and how many has GRRM said will be written total? Does each season of the show roughly equate to one book?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

gweempose said:


> So how many books have been written so far, and how many has GRRM said will be written total? Does each season of the show roughly equate to one book?


I think (not sure): there are 5 books done. He should be done with book 6 soon (yeah, right, say the book readers) and book 7 will be the end.

Book 1 was season 1
Book 2 was season 2
Book 3 was/is seasons 3 and 4

At the rate he is writing (as much as 5 years between books), the TV show will catch up and pass him before book 7 is out.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Here's a rough book/TV timeline:

At max, four more seasons of TV. The showrunners have said they would prefer 7 total, but can do 8 if necessary. So S4 is 2014, S8 would be 2018. Filmed in late 2017.

Book six is rumored to be out late next year. 2015 if nothing else gets in his way. There is not a chance on earth B7 is out within 3 years. Unless GRRM changes his writing lifestyle, it will be 2019 or 2020 before we see the series conclude.

While the producers do know how the story concludes, it's hard to imagine how they can "fill in the blanks". It's all the color that adds so much to this series.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Bear in mind that Game of Thrones is a trilogy. GRRM may say how many books remain in his trilogy, and he may even believe it. But he also may well be wrong.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

And it's back...

http://happyplace.someecards.com/30451/game-of-thrones-facebook-recap-season-4-episode-1

This is the "If Game of Thrones took place entirely on Facebook - The Season 4 Premiere."


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Why did they spread the third book across two seasons? Was there simply too much stuff going on to cram into one season, or were they purposely trying to slow the series down in order to give GRRM more time to finish the sixth book?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Bear in mind that Game of Thrones is a *trilogy*. GRRM may say how many books remain in his *trilogy*, and he may even believe it. But he also may well be wrong.


You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

astrohip said:


> And it's back...
> 
> http://happyplace.someecards.com/30451/game-of-thrones-facebook-recap-season-4-episode-1
> 
> This is the "If Game of Thrones took place entirely on Facebook - The Season 4 Premiere."


Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 



gweempose said:


> Why did they spread the third book across two seasons? Was there simply too much stuff going on to cram into one season, or were they purposely trying to slow the series down in order to give GRRM more time to finish the sixth book?


Not a book reader, but people have posted here that book 3 was just loaded and 10 episodes would simply not have done it justice.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

gweempose said:


> Why did they spread the third book across two seasons? Was there simply too much stuff going on to cram into one season, or were they purposely trying to slow the series down in order to give GRRM more time to finish the sixth book?


I don't think it's automatic that book 3 = two seasons. I've gotten the impression that S4 of the show will finish up book 3 and begin tackling the material in books 4-5, which apparently take place simultaneously.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I don't think it's automatic that book 3 = two seasons. I've gotten the impression that S4 of the show will finish up book 3 and begin tackling the material in books 4-5, which apparently take place simultaneously.


Does that mean I'll have to read Book 4 & 5 simultaneously to keep up with the TV?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Bear in mind that Game of Thrones is a trilogy. GRRM may say how many books remain in his trilogy, and he may even believe it. But he also may well be wrong.


By definition isn't a trilogy 3 books? 

Do you mean that there are three separate stories that GRRM is writing and each story thread will take 2 to 3 books?


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> By definition isn't a trilogy 3 books?
> 
> Do you mean that there are three separate stories that GRRM is writing and each story thread will take 2 to 3 books?


No. He's pointing out that it was supposed to be 3 books, and the story turned out to be longer than that.

The corollary is that even if you think you can finish it in 2 more, you thought that 5 books ago, too. So how can you be sure?

Wheel of Time was a trilogy that went 11 books. Then there was supposed to be one final book, but when Brandon Sanderson sat down to write it, there was so much to cover that the final book took 3 books.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> By definition isn't a trilogy 3 books?
> 
> Do you mean that there are three separate stories that GRRM is writing and each story thread will take 2 to 3 books?


I mean Martin can't control himself. When the first book came out, it was the first book in a trilogy. Then it was going to be four volumes. Now...

Well, I remember when a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy book came out with the tagline "The latest book in the increasingly inaccurately-named Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Trilogy."


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

astrohip said:


> While the producers do know how the story concludes, it's hard to imagine how they can "fill in the blanks". It's all the color that adds so much to this series.


They don't just have the outline. They have all the major events and what happens to every character. They have the roadmap.

Sitting down and writing out a roadmap that indicates (to make something completely up) "Jaime Lannister is killed at the second battle of the trident", is a good starting point, but is a long way from actually writing the book.

Robert Jordan had very detailed notes on "Wheel of Time" for years, but it still wasn't the same as having a publishable manuscript.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

astrohip said:


> And it's back... http://happyplace.someecards.com/30451/game-of-thrones-facebook-recap-season-4-episode-1 This is the "If Game of Thrones took place entirely on Facebook - The Season 4 Premiere."


Murder pony!! Hahaha!


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

My Favorite is "The Hound is playing the game _why are you superpoking yourself in the face?_ - with some guy's skull"

I was just playing "why are you hitting yourself?" with my son just last night. This line made me totally LOL


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I mean Martin can't control himself. When the first book came out, it was the first book in a trilogy. Then it was going to be four volumes. Now...
> 
> Well, I remember when a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy book came out with the tagline "The latest book in the increasingly inaccurately-named Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Trilogy."


That would be "So Long and Thanks for all the Fish!" the fourth book in the Hitchhiker's Guide Trilogy!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> That would be "So Long and Thanks for all the Fish!" the fourth book in the Hitchhiker's Guide Trilogy!


No, it would have been the 5th or 6th volume. Otherwise, "Increasingly Inaccurate" wouldn't have been, well, accurate.

[edit] It was the fifth.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Ereth said:


> No. He's pointing out that it was supposed to be 3 books, and the story turned out to be longer than that.
> 
> The corollary is that even if you think you can finish it in 2 more, you thought that 5 books ago, too. So how can you be sure?
> 
> Wheel of Time was a trilogy that went 11 books. Then there was supposed to be one final book, but when Brandon Sanderson sat down to write it, there was so much to cover that the final book took 3 books.


Got it, thanks. But really when it's 11 books, it's no longer a trilogy  It's an eleven-gy (or whatever  )


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> Got it, thanks. But really when it's 11 books, it's no longer a trilogy  It's an eleven-gy (or whatever  )


LOL! I've heard of "trilogys" that went beyond 3 books. I always thought it odd that nobody called them quadlogys or quintlogys. I have no idea what one would call 11!


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

allan said:


> LOL! I've heard of "trilogys" that went beyond 3 books. I always thought it odd that nobody called them quadlogys or quintlogys. I have no idea what one would call 11!


Undectetology


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Trilogy is often misused.

Lord of the Rings is not a trilogy, for example, but most people use that word to describe it.

More commonly, series that started out as trilogies get expanded as the Quest for More Money kicks in. (cf Foundation).


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> No, it would have been the 5th or 6th volume. Otherwise, "Increasingly Inaccurate" wouldn't have been, well, accurate. [edit] It was the fifth.


Maybe that specific set of words but So Long was the Fourth Book in the Trilogy. Since you weren't sure, I didn't literally take you literally.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Ereth said:


> Trilogy is often misused. Lord of the Rings is not a trilogy, for example, but most people use that word to describe it. More commonly, series that started out as trilogies get expanded as the Quest for More Money kicks in. (cf Foundation).


Well. It was six books but it was published in three volumes, hence, trilogy. Each volume consisting of two books.

The movies are a trilogy for sure.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> Since you weren't sure, I didn't literally take you literally.


Every time somebody says "literally" these days (correctly or not), I flash to Archer, a show (and character) obsessed with getting literally right.

Last week, somebody paused at the place where literally or figuratively would go, said "Which one is it?", and Archer said, "Literally." She then continued.

I now return you to your regular thread derailment.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Every time somebody says "literally" these days (correctly or not), I flash to Archer, a show (and character) obsessed with getting literally right. Last week, somebody paused at the place where literally or figuratively would go, said "Which one is it?", and Archer said, "Literally." She then continued. I now return you to your regular thread derailment.


At least I used it correctly.

Wait. Derailment? This isn't a BBT thread.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Every time somebody says "literally" these days (correctly or not), I flash to Archer, a show (and character) obsessed with getting literally right.
> 
> Last week, somebody paused at the place where literally or figuratively would go, said "Which one is it?", and Archer said, "Literally." She then continued.
> 
> I now return you to your regular thread derailment.


Want to know something that will blow your mind (at least it did when I found out)? You know all of those people who use the word "literally" wrong? Guess what...they aren't wrong:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally



> 2 : in effect : virtually <will literally turn the world upside down to combat cruelty or injustice  Norman Cousins>


And that's not some modern addition to keep up with an evolving language. It's actually been in OED since 1903

http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2013/08/literally/


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> Want to know something that will blow your mind (at least it did when I found out)? You know all of those people who use the word "literally" wrong? Guess what...they aren't wrong:
> 
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally


Actually, they mostly are wrong. They're often not using it as "pure hyperbole intended to gain emphasis," but just as a neutral interjection. If you take the word "literally" out of the sentence, it often doesn't change the meaning at all.

As far as I'm concerned, if you use Definition 2 and it can't be taken as ironic, then you're literally getting it wrong. 

Which, of course, you can see from watching the season premiere of Game of Thrones. <cough>


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> Well. It was six books but it was published in three volumes, hence, trilogy. Each volume consisting of two books.
> 
> The movies are a trilogy for sure.


Except it's not. It's 1 book, told in 3 volumes.

A trilogy is 3 books, each of which stand alone. None of the "books" of the Lord of the Rings (or the movies, for that matter) stand alone. They have no beginning/middle/end. They are only part of the story.

The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy (was) a trilogy. Each book has it's own beginning/middle/end and tells a story. You can read the middle one without reading the first if you want, and still have a whole story.

The Lord of the Rings is not a trilogy. Tolkien himself complained that people were calling it that.

It's no more a trilogy than the Hobbit being broken up into 3 movies is a trilogy, or the final Harry Potter being broken up is a movie and a sequel. They are parts (Part 1 and 2 for Harry Potter, Parts 1, 2 and 3 for the Hobbit) of a single story.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Now you're just being pedantic. (He said, literally.)


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Now you're just being pedantic. (He said, literally.)


Am I? Perhaps. But this is one of those "nerd trivia questions" that we've known for decades. "What's the most famous trilogy that isn't a trilogy?" type thing.

Tolkien himself:


JRR Tolkien said:


> The (unavoidable) disadvantage of issuing in three pans has been shown in the 'shapelessness' that several readers have found, since that is true if one volume is supposed to stand alone. 'Trilogy', which is not really accurate, is partly to blame. There is too much 'hobbitry' in Vol. I taken by itself; and several critics have obviously not got far beyond Chapter I.





> P.S. The book is not of course a 'trilogy'. That and the titles of the volumes was a fudge thought necessary for publication, owing to length and cost. There is no real division into 3, nor is any one pan intelligible alone. The story was conceived and written as a whole and the only natural divisions are the 'books' I-VI (which originally had titles).


But Tolkien was a scholar, and a linguist at that. Words have MEANINGS. Imagine that.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Ereth said:


> A trilogy is 3 books, each of which stand alone. None of the "books" of the Lord of the Rings (or the movies, for that matter) stand alone. They have no beginning/middle/end. They are only part of the story.


That may be your own personal interpretation of trilogy, but it's not how OED nor merriam webster define it.

http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/206105?redirectedFrom=trilogy#eid

"Any series or group of three related dramatic or other literary works."


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> That may be your own personal interpretation of trilogy, but it's not how OED nor merriam webster define it.
> 
> http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/206105?redirectedFrom=trilogy#eid
> 
> "Any series or group of three related dramatic or other literary works."


But none of the "books" that form the trilogy are actually stand alone works. They don't meet OEDs definition either.

This isn't my "personal interpretation". It's what the word means.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Ereth said:


> But none of the "books" that form the trilogy are actually stand alone works. They don't meet OEDs definition either.
> 
> This isn't my "personal interpretation". It's what the word means.


Uh, what? I posted the entirety of OED's 2nd definition right there. Where do the words "stand alone" appear?

"Any series or group of three related dramatic or other literary works."

Is LOTR:
a series or group? Yes
are there 3 of them? Yes
are the 3 related? Yes
Are they dramatic or other literary works? Yes

So please tell me which part of that OED definition it failed to meet.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)




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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Don't be so boring. On vacation, I don't always drive in the direction of our vacation destination. Have you never heard of taking the scenic route?


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

LordKronos said:


> Don't be so boring. On vacation, I don't always drive in the direction of our vacation destination. Have you never heard of taking the scenic route?


LOL

It was not nessacerily directed at you. I was excited to see the thread bumped. I started reading and I thought to myself, "I clicked on the thread for this ****?"

Rob is right, its allowed in the BBT threads. Don't bring it into Westoros mother ******s!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Shaunnick said:


> Rob is right, its allowed in the BBT threads. Don't bring it into Westoros mother ******s!


Over at BBT, what's the worst that could happen? Sheldon calls you a moron and Penny gets drunk.

Here, you can get flayed alive, castrated, burned by a dragon, turned into a zombie by the White Walkers, etc. etc. etc.

Ah, I remember the good old times, when having a bad day on GoT just meant having your head cut off!


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> Uh, what? I posted the entirety of OED's 2nd definition right there. Where do the words "stand alone" appear?
> 
> "Any series or group of three related dramatic or other literary works."
> 
> ...


The "Two Towers" is not a "literary work". It is PART of a "literary work".

This is really very simple. Even the author explains it, way back in the 1950s. The Lord of the Rings is a single novel. It was broken into 3 parts by the publisher, against the wishes of the writer. The 3 parts are not individual pieces that can be read without the others.

Let me put it another way.

If you watch "Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope" and you never ever see any other Star Wars movies, have you seen a whole story? It has protagonists, antagonists, a plot, challenges, and a resolution? Of course.

But if you watch ONLY "The Fellowship of the Ring" have you seen a whole story? No. There's no resolution to the plot. It isn't complete.

Or better yet: Is this a joke? "Two guys walk into a bar".

Nope. You would agree, I presume, that it's incomplete. It doesn't meet the definition of a joke because, while it has a setup, it has no payoff. "The Fellowship of the Rings" is the literary equivalent of "two guys walk into a bar". There's no payoff. It doesn't go anywhere without the other volumes.

Chapters or components of literary works do not make literary works by themselves. Otherwise you could write a book with three chapters and claim that it's a trilogy.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

By that definition, I'd consider the 5 book Well World series by Jack Chalker a trilogy. The first book was stand-alone, but 2-3 could be considered one story, and 4-5 were certainly one (#4 even had a "to be continued" note).


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

How 'bout that Games of Thrones on TV?

My no-book speculation:
There has to be another climactic showdown between The Hound and his brother, The Mountain at some point.
The J*? chameleon assassin guy is still out there waiting for Arya's call.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Ereth said:


> The "Two Towers" is not a "literary work". It is PART of a "literary work". This is really very simple. Even the author explains it, way back in the 1950s. The Lord of the Rings is a single novel. It was broken into 3 parts by the publisher, against the wishes of the writer. The 3 parts are not individual pieces that can be read without the others. Let me put it another way. If you watch "Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope" and you never ever see any other Star Wars movies, have you seen a whole story? It has protagonists, antagonists, a plot, challenges, and a resolution? Of course. But if you watch ONLY "The Fellowship of the Ring" have you seen a whole story? No. There's no resolution to the plot. It isn't complete. Or better yet: Is this a joke? "Two guys walk into a bar". Nope. You would agree, I presume, that it's incomplete. It doesn't meet the definition of a joke because, while it has a setup, it has no payoff. "The Fellowship of the Rings" is the literary equivalent of "two guys walk into a bar". There's no payoff. It doesn't go anywhere without the other volumes. Chapters or components of literary works do not make literary works by themselves. Otherwise you could write a book with three chapters and claim that it's a trilogy.


I understand your theory. Not everyone agrees with that definition but it is interesting that you used Star Wars. You consider A New Hope and the other first movies to be a trilogy? Hard to with your definition as Empire hardly has an ending.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Did I see a casting note that the Mountain is played by someone new this season?


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Ereth said:


> Did I see a casting note that the Mountain is played by someone new this season?


Actor #3! Although it's not like it's a major speaking role.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Ereth said:


> Did I see a casting note that the Mountain is played by someone new this season?


I just went and searched for it, and you are correct he is being recast. Amusingly, I didn't even realize until now that he had already been recast once before, between seasons 1 and 2.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Ereth said:


> The "Two Towers" is not a "literary work". It is PART of a "literary work".
> 
> This is really very simple. Even the author explains it, way back in the 1950s. The Lord of the Rings is a single novel. It was broken into 3 parts by the publisher, against the wishes of the writer. The 3 parts are not individual pieces that can be read without the others.


Ereth is right. It was written as one novel (one novel to rule them all?) and the publishers said no way, it's too long, we are going to break it into three books.

That said, I do still refer to it as "The Trilogy", but I will agree that technically that is incorrect.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I'm re-watching the episode and wanted to revisit 2 things:

1. It seems to me that Tywin burned the sheath that Ice was in. So my original thinking that he burned Robb's direwolf's pelt is probably wrong. I also thought he burned the sheath/pelt into the swords. But it looks like he just burned it into the fireplace.

2. I still think Cersei got an abortion. But now I have some doubt because the Maester (not a Maester, he corrects!) asks her if her symptoms abated. Maybe he was just being clever in front of Jaime. But if I was 95% sure it was an abortion, I'm now only 80% sure.

3. I don't have a third item right now, but wanted to have a trilogy of points 

4. And here's another point in my trilogy: Point.

5. Still a trilogy, damn it. I want Shae dead. I hate her.


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

As long as this these threads are started to discuss the individual episodes can we refrain from commenting on a characters storyline from the books farther into the future than where the TV show is? 

I am not trying to call anyone out or be overly anal, but in a series where so many major characters die at any time, referring to someone's storyline in future books is a spoiler to me as it alludes to that person still being alive then.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

AstroDad said:


> As long as this these threads are started to discuss the individual episodes can we refrain from commenting on a characters storyline from the books farther into the future than where the TV show is?
> 
> I am not trying to call anyone out or be overly anal, but in a series where so many major characters die at any time, referring to someone's storyline in future books is a spoiler to me as it alludes to that person still being alive then.


I don't recall anything of the sort happening here...if it did happen, I'm glad I missed it!

I stand corrected when I corrected LordKronos earlier. Jon Snow said Mance had 100,000. So I was wrong when I said it was 200,000


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## LlamaLarry (Apr 30, 2003)

Anubys said:


> 5. Still a trilogy, damn it. I want Shae dead. I hate her.


I hate her and every interaction she has with Tyrion. I really really really hope someone kills her real good.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

LlamaLarry said:


> I hate her and every interaction she has with Tyrion. I really really really hope someone kills her real good.


Maybe she could have a catfight to the death with Joffrey.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

AstroDad said:


> As long as this these threads are started to discuss the individual episodes can we refrain from commenting on a characters storyline from the books farther into the future than where the TV show is?
> 
> I am not trying to call anyone out or be overly anal, but in a series where so many major characters die at any time, referring to someone's storyline in future books is a spoiler to me as it alludes to that person still being alive then.





Anubys said:


> I don't recall anything of the sort happening here...if it did happen, I'm glad I missed it!


I also don't recall any such spoiler from the books making it into this thread.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I also don't recall any such spoiler from the books making it into this thread.


Add me to the list. If it did, it went right over my head.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

It wasn't a blatant spoiler, but it was as AstroDad described it.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

AstroDad said:


> As long as this these threads are started to discuss the individual episodes can we refrain from commenting on a characters storyline from the books farther into the future than where the TV show is?
> 
> I am not trying to call anyone out or be overly anal, but in a series where so many major characters die at any time, referring to someone's storyline in future books is a spoiler to me as it alludes to that person still being alive then.


You are absolutely correct. There should be no spoilers of any sort, book or not, in these threads.

There is another thread for that express purpose. Where we can discuss the series from the POV of having read the books:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=516317



cherry ghost said:


> It wasn't a blatant spoiler, but it was as AstroDad described it.


Missed it also. I'd go back and find it but we're up to 250+ posts and if there's not enough time for all the good TV, there sure ain't enough time for this.

ETA: just caught it...


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Anubys said:


> I don't recall anything of the sort happening here...if it did happen, I'm glad I missed it!
> 
> I stand corrected when I corrected LordKronos earlier. Jon Snow said Mance had 100,000. So I was wrong when I said it was 200,000


Someone spoiled that a certain individual is at least alive through book 5.


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## Doh (May 18, 2001)

AstroDad said:


> As long as this these threads are started to discuss the individual episodes can we refrain from commenting on a characters storyline from the books farther into the future than where the TV show is?
> 
> I am not trying to call anyone out or be overly anal, but in a series where so many major characters die at any time, referring to someone's storyline in future books is a spoiler to me as it alludes to that person still being alive then.


I think that may have been me-- sorry!


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Since I missed it the first time around, I now find myself simultaneously wanting to go see what I missed and afraid that I might actually find out. 

In the same vein, I read TCF quite a bit on my ipad using ForumRunner. When browsing thread titles, you are also able to see the first line or so of the last post in any given thread. I try so hard to avert my eyes quickly when I run across the book spoiler thread, but sometimes despite my effort, I catch my eyes lingering a little longer than they should. I know I shouldn't be looking, but I can't help it! Lol


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Jstkiddn said:


> In the same vein, I read TCF quite a bit on my ipad using ForumRunner. When browsing thread titles, you are also able to see the first line or so of the last post in any given thread. I try so hard to avert my eyes quickly when I run across the book spoiler thread, but sometimes despite my effort, I catch my eyes lingering a little longer than they should. I know I shouldn't be looking, but I can't help it! Lol


Well that would suck.

On the website, when you go into a thread, there is an option under "Thread Tools" to "Ignore this Thread". When you do that, the thread no longer shows up in the list of threads. Does ForumRunner respect that setting, or have a similar feature of its own?


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> Well that would suck. On the website, when you go into a thread, there is an option under "Thread Tools" to "Ignore this Thread". When you do that, the thread no longer shows up in the list of threads. Does ForumRunner respect that setting, or have a similar feature of its own?


 Ya know, I think that would probably work. Thanks for the idea! :up: I normally don't ignore threads, so it had never crossed my mind. Thanks!

Edit to add: well, it was a great idea, but didn't work.  Thanks anyway.


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

Doh said:


> I think that may have been me-- sorry!


no biggie, I know it wasn't on purpose


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

I did get a kick out of Tyrion telling Sansa, "Your mother, on the other hand, I admired her. She wanted to have me executed, but I admired her. She was a strong woman."

The important question is, however, if we split those sentences into three books:

Admiration Part I: Mother
Admiration Part II: Execution
Admiration Part III: Strength

Would that make them a trilogy?


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Jstkiddn said:


> Since I missed it the first time around, I now find myself simultaneously wanting to go see what I missed and afraid that I might actually find out.


Same here. I'll have to remember to come back to this thread in a few years to see what was spoiled. 

But since they are supposedly including some stories from books 4 and 5 in this season, and future seasons will likely be mixed as well, I don't think we really know that any character wouldn't die this season or next even if he or she were still alive in book 5. If the character is ultimately supposed to die during the series, the producers might decide to kill him or her off early to save money.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

My thought with multiple actors playing the same role, like we know that "Fabio" got a role on a movie, and the third player of The Mountain is that they aren't going to pay an actor in a minor role to stay available for 3-4 more years.

I accidently read a spoiler that one character will be not seen for several "books" so I wouldn't surprised if we see another player in the role, even though in this case that would be a loss of a surprise for the audience.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

It's very hard to have a thread like this with ZERO spoilers. Just knowing that The Mountain was recast is technically a spoiler, since it let's us know that we will see the character again at some point.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

gweempose said:


> It's very hard to have a thread like this with ZERO spoilers. Just knowing that The Mountain was recast is technically a spoiler, since it let's us know that we will see the character again at some point.


This is an episode thread, but I guess we didn't see the new Mountain yet.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

gweempose said:


> It's very hard to have a thread like this with ZERO spoilers. Just knowing that The Mountain was recast is technically a spoiler, since it let's us know that we will see the character again at some point.


I don't think that spoils anything because we had no reason to think he was dead. No current storyline hinges on him being or not being a part of it.

Now, if we found out that Xaro Xhoan Daxos from Qarth had been recast, that would have been a spoiler because we assume that he rotted away in the safe that Daenerys locked him in.

But as of yet, The Mountain hasn't played a big enough role in anything that it matters whether or not he makes a future appearance.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I recently rewatched the season 1 episode where he cut off his horse's head. That was pretty big. And he's the one who killed Oberon's little neice and nephew and raped and murdered his sister. 

But yeah, who cares is he's alive or not?


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

I wish Sansa would realize that other than Tyrion's size and last name, he'd really be a pretty awesome husband for her.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

I wonder why The Hound never tells Arya that he tried to save "Little Bird" Sansa. That might get him off of Arya's kill list.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

JETarpon said:


> I wish Sansa would realize that other than Tyrion's size and last name, he'd really be a pretty awesome husband for her.


Except for the fact that Tyrion cannot protect her, which is a critical husbandly duty.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

i'm concerned with jamie's well-being at the moment. incestual attempted child murderers don't generally draw sympathy from me, but since he's returned from being held captive, he's gotten hit from all sides of the family - tywin, joffrey, and cersei. 

this, following his heroic efforts to keep brienne safe, and revelation of why he stabbed the mad king in the back, and i'm almost starting to feel sorry for the guy...almost.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Jstkiddn said:


> In the same vein, I read TCF quite a bit on my ipad using ForumRunner. When browsing thread titles, you are also able to see the first line or so of the last post in any given thread. I try so hard to avert my eyes quickly when I run across the book spoiler thread, but sometimes despite my effort, I catch my eyes lingering a little longer than they should. I know I shouldn't be looking, but I can't help it! Lol


In case you didn't know, you can change the display settings on ForumRunner so that it doesn't display anything but the thread title on the main page. If you're frequently being tempted to read posts that you don't want to read, that may be a good option for you.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

MikeAndrews said:


> I wonder why The Hound never tells Arya that he tried to save "Little Bird" Sansa. That might get him off of Arya's kill list.


He did tell her. He told her that he saved Sansa from the mob that almost raped and killed her and he told her that he offered to take her with him when he left the Red Keep. Arya did not / does not believe him.

She probably assumes that - even if true - he did it because he was following orders or because he wanted Sansa for himself (or some other evil reason).


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

stellie93 said:


> I recently rewatched the season 1 episode where he cut off his horse's head. That was pretty big. And he's the one who killed Oberon's little neice and nephew and raped and murdered his sister.
> 
> But yeah, who cares is he's alive or not?


I hope I'm not misinterpreting your post, but if you are responding to me, I want to clarify that I wasn't saying that I didn't care about The Mountain.

I personally do hope he shows up. (And he apparently will.)

My point was only that knowing whether or not he was going to appear in a future episode wasn't really a spoiler. Given Oberon's talk with Tyrion, I don't think any of us would have been surprised by his appearance.

On the other hand, if Martin (or the writers of the TV series) decided not to include him in any future stories, we might be disappointed, but that wouldn't really spoil anything either.

I don't know what the book covers about him, but his pillaging in the TV series has mostly been done off screen. Finding out that nobody was hired to play The Mountain wouldn't spoil anything because we wouldn't know if that meant The Mountain was dead or simply no longer important to the story that Martin and the producers wanted to tell.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> In case you didn't know, you can change the display settings on ForumRunner so that it doesn't display anything but the thread title on the main page. If you're frequently being tempted to read posts that you don't want to read, that may be a good option for you.


I did not know this. Thanks! Fixed my issue.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Anubys said:


> He did tell her. He told her that he saved Sansa from the mob that almost raped and killed her and he told her that he offered to take her with him when he left the Red Keep. Arya did not / does not believe him. She probably assumes that - even if true - he did it because he was following orders or because he wanted Sansa for himself (or some other evil reason).


Yes, that's the way I remember it as well. You could tell she was thinking "yeah, right....sure you did. "


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

MikeAndrews said:


>


I got to do this after work. I was buying chicken for a staff meeting, and went to the local gas station:

Me: I think I'll have some chicken.

Clerk: (Who I know watched GoT) "How much chicken?"

Me: "Think I'll take all of your chicken."

Clerk: "Are you The Hound?"

Me: "Listening to talkers makes me thirsty and hungry. I think I'll take every f**kin chicken in this room."

Clerk: "Awesome!"

(Yeah, I butchered the lines a bit, but had to make them fit the situation)


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

How did he die??


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

DUDE_NJX said:


> How did he die??


He didn't. Unlike Polliver, he forked over the chicken. Although I did pay for it. I'm weak that way.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Well, I hope you at least drank his beer.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

kaszeta said:


> He didn't. Unlike Polliver, he forked over the chicken. Although I did pay for it. I'm weak that way.


Did you pay the iron price?


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Did you tell her that maybe you'd use it as toothpick?


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

He'll be dead by winter.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

danterner said:


> Did you pay the iron price?


He butchered "the lines", and then "made them fit the situation", if you know what he means.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

danterner said:


> Did you pay the iron price?


I'm not a thief. Man's gotta have a code.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

kaszeta said:


> I'm not a thief. Man's gotta have a code.


What do you call hitting him on the head with the register and taking all the silver money inside? forget the fact that it will be winter soon. That's theft right there!


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Careful folks. Are you all not realizing what episode you are posting under?


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

I ain't no spoiler. Man's gotta have a code.


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