# Finally some TiVo Apps for Roku, Apple TV and FireTV



## mcf57 (Oct 19, 2012)

TiVo launching live TV/DVR apps for Apple TV, Roku and Fire TV | FierceVideo

FINALLY this is coming. I have been wanting a simple inexpensive solution for some spare rooms that aren't used a lot (guests and a basement area). I already have some Minis, but didn't wasnt to spend $150+ for each room. Glad to see TiVo is getting on board with this.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Are you the Geico man living under a rock? Theres many threads on this already!


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## mlcarson (Dec 31, 2007)

I guess I am. This is the first thread that I've seen on it.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

It was buried in the CES 2019 thread. Easy to miss.
Any Tivo CES 2019 news?


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## mcf57 (Oct 19, 2012)

I have a Roku and FireTV devices. Assuming these "apps" will basically be like adding a mini to your local network, right?


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

mcf57 said:


> I have a Roku and FireTV devices. Assuming these "apps" will basically be like adding a mini to your local network, right?


That is my understanding yes, it will enable you to watch live tv as well as recorded content on the host tivo.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Thanks, first I heard of this (really).
This will allow me to access my Bolt from my vacation home but too bad it's 3 to 9 months away (_the apps will launch in the second or third quarter of 2019_)


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

Tony_T said:


> Thanks, first I heard of this (really).
> This will allow me to access my Bolt from my vacation home but too bad it's 3 to 9 months away (_the apps will launch in the second or third quarter of 2019_)


I could be wrong, but I'm not sure these apps will work while not on the home network.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Steve said:


> I could be wrong, but I'm not sure these apps will work while not on the home network.


"_&#8230; including the ability to simply attach a Roku Stick or Fire TV Stick to the hotel television for our content on-the-go -_"


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

Tony_T said:


> "_&#8230; including the ability to simply attach a Roku Stick or Fire TV Stick to the hotel television for our content on-the-go -_"


I guess it's possible they're porting the existing Android/iOS "out of home" capable apps to the Roku/FireStick/ATVs. The video looks more like TE4, however.

Maybe Dave Zatz can weigh in with more details.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I read that this is an alternative to the Mini, but without SKIP, I wouldn't use the App on a home network.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

Tony_T said:


> I read that this is an alternative to the Mini, but without SKIP, I wouldn't use the App on a home network.


I do use the iOS app on our home network daily. We have no TV near our kitchen table, so I use an iPad to watch TV at mealtimes. Works great, except for missing commercial skipping.


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## lucidrenegade (Aug 21, 2013)

My understanding is these apps aren't replacements for the minis. They'll still be limited like the current apps are to using Tivo "Stream" - ie: transcoding, etc.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Steve said:


> I guess it's possible they're porting the existing Android/iOS "out of home" capable apps to the Roku/FireStick/ATVs. The video looks more like TE4, however.
> 
> Maybe Dave Zatz can weigh in with more details.


It doesn't have to be one or the other. If you can stream internally, you can do it externally with the same interface.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

Tony_T said:


> Thanks, first I heard of this (really).
> This will allow me to access my Bolt from my vacation home but too bad it's 3 to 9 months away (_the apps will launch in the second or third quarter of 2019_)


IF... IF we ever get them.... Don't hold your breath.


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## JerryAC (Feb 11, 2012)

Will the Roku Tivo app be limited to connecting to the Bolt, or will the Roamio be included? I have one Roamio with $6.95 / month service, and a Premiere with lifetime. I am considering the Tivo Mini off eBay, or a Tablo dual tuner for my 3rd tv. Any recommendations concerning Tablo? I also have a perfectly good HD3 in the closet that I can't use. Wish I had gotten the $99 lifetime for it when I bought the Premiere.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

The maximum resolution for these apps was reported as being 720p. I'm out.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

Not sure this is a good idea for TiVo. What if people start comparing the way the apps work on the Roku to the way the apps work on the TiVo? .


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## mrsean (May 15, 2006)

PJO1966 said:


> The maximum resolution for these apps was reported as being 720p. I'm out.


All modern televisions upscale content to 1080p/4K. Most people will not care what the original resolution is.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

JerryAC said:


> Will the Roku Tivo app be limited to connecting to the Bolt, or will the Roamio be included? I have one Roamio with $6.95 / month service, and a Premiere with lifetime. I am considering the Tivo Mini off eBay, or a Tablo dual tuner for my 3rd tv. Any recommendations concerning Tablo? I also have a perfectly good HD3 in the closet that I can't use. Wish I had gotten the $99 lifetime for it when I bought the Premiere.


If it's a Roamio Plus/Pro, it's supposed to work.

Scott


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## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

JerryAC said:


> Will the Roku Tivo app be limited to connecting to the Bolt, or will the Roamio be included? I have one Roamio with $6.95 / month service, and a Premiere with lifetime. I am considering the Tivo Mini off eBay, or a Tablo dual tuner for my 3rd tv. Any recommendations concerning Tablo? I also have a perfectly good HD3 in the closet that I can't use. Wish I had gotten the $99 lifetime for it when I bought the Premiere.





HerronScott said:


> If it's a Roamio Plus/Pro, it's supposed to work.
> 
> Scott


Per @TiVo_Ted, Roamio Basic and OTA will work if you also have a TiVo Stream (although you're relegated to eBay or Weaknees to actually buy one since TiVo doesn't sell them anymore)



OrangeCrush said:


> Welcome back Ted! Will the initial implementation of the soft mini apps work w/ a TE3 Roamio OTA & TiVo Stream?





TiVo_Ted said:


> Yes, this config should work fine.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

PJO1966 said:


> The maximum resolution for these apps was reported as being 720p. I'm out.


I doubt you'll notice. If you have Comcast all your channels are already 720p, and even if you have a different provider only half the channels are 1080i and the rest are 720p. Real 1080p doesn't exist in the broadcast world. So you either have to make it up by deinterlacing and frame doubling, which doesn't really work that well, or you down convert to 720p which hides some of the defects from deinterlacing.

Most streaming devices don't support interlaced video, so they can't just send the original 1080i stream.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

^ next they will complain it cant stream snake oil HDR and Atmos when there isn't hardly any good content with those features,
"Gee I cant hear helicopters on my ceiling and see neon lens flares on my crappy movies streaming from TiVo"


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> doubt you'll notice. If you have Comcast all your channels are already 720p, and even if you have a different provider only half the channels are 1080i and the rest are 720p. Real 1080p doesn't exist in the broadcast world. So you either have to make it up by deinterlacing and frame doubling, which doesn't really work that well, or you down convert to 720p which hides some of the defects from deinterlacing.


The broadcast channels that are 1080i are still 1080i on Comcast (someone in the Chicago area I believe reported that at least some of their broadcast channels were switched to MPEG4 and 720p)

Scott


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

HerronScott said:


> The broadcast channels that are 1080i are still 1080i on Comcast (someone in the Chicago area I believe reported that at least some of their broadcast channels were switched to MPEG4 and 720p)
> 
> Scott


Out of the 5 major broadcast networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox and CW) only two are 1080i anyway. (NBC and CBS)

It we were talking about 1080p to 720p I'd agree the downgrade would be something to be upset about. But 1080i to 720p will likely look better than 1080i to 1080p since the resample will hide some of the deinterlacing artifacts.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

I get my channels from an OTA antenna. I want to maintain the quality I'm used to seeing. I worked for years in the video industry where it was my job to find flaws in the image. Unfortunately that ability stayed with me.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

A Roku Express is $30. A Fire TV stick with Alexa is also $30. Both support wireless, both support apps better than a Mini, and they support a lot more apps than the Mini. Yet a Mini is $130!!!

If people can see the difference between 1080i and 720p on my 19" 720p TV, they probably wear blue tights, red boots, and a red cape. That 19" TV uses OTA now, and gets lousy signal whenever it's windy out. And sometimes when it's calm. For me, this is a no-brainer.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Dan203 said:


> Out of the 5 major broadcast networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox and CW) only two are 1080i anyway. (NBC and CBS)


I get WPIX (CW) from NY at 1080i. My feed does a blackout for most of its daytime programming since I also get WSWB.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

BobCamp1 said:


> A Roku Express is $30. A Fire TV stick with Alexa is also $30. Both support wireless, both support apps better than a Mini, and they support a lot more apps than the Mini. Yet a Mini is $130!!!
> 
> If people can see the difference between 1080i and 720p on my 19" 720p TV, they probably wear blue tights, red boots, and a red cape. That 19" TV uses OTA now, and gets lousy signal whenever it's windy out. And sometimes when it's calm. For me, this is a no-brainer.


And do you have one of those 3 a.m. informercial miracle magnifying lenses that you put in front of the TV screen to make the image bigger?


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

PJO1966 said:


> I get my channels from an OTA antenna. I want to maintain the quality I'm used to seeing. I worked for years in the video industry where it was my job to find flaws in the image. Unfortunately that ability stayed with me.


Then buy a Mini


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

foghorn2 said:


> Then buy a Mini


My goal was to reduce hardware to simplify our viewing. I wanted all our programming on one device. I just listed a new Bolt OTA, Roamio Pro, and two Minis on craigslist.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> Out of the 5 major broadcast networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox and CW) only two are 1080i anyway. (NBC and CBS)
> 
> It we were talking about 1080p to 720p I'd agree the downgrade would be something to be upset about. But 1080i to 720p will likely look better than 1080i to 1080p since the resample will hide some of the deinterlacing artifacts.


People look too much at numbers. My HTPC with a Radeon RX550 card playing 480P DVD content with Kodi, depending on the source, can display a picture that look better than some modern Blue-Rays.

Also that same content looks way better on a 720p plasma than on a Samsung UHD LCD.

Really, you are not going to loose much re encoding broadcast OTA @ 720p, and even most crappy cable so called "HDTV" signals that compressed to hell already.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

BobCamp1 said:


> A Roku Express is $30. A Fire TV stick with Alexa is also $30. Both support wireless, both support apps better than a Mini, and they support a lot more apps than the Mini. Yet a Mini is $130!!!


I don't know about the Fire TV stick, but Roku doesn't support Dolby Digital. (it works with Plex, but that's my content and not streamed)

I have a Roku Ultra. Please let me know if I'm doing something wrong.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Has there been any updates on when the Tivo app for Amazon Fire will be available again?


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## mrizzo80 (Apr 17, 2012)

jcthorne said:


> Has there been any updates on when the Tivo app for Amazon Fire will be available again?


Not that I have heard - the last estimate was Q2 2019. TiVo release dates often slip, though. The good news is that of the three clients (Fire TV, Apple TV, Roku) they are developing, Fire TV is getting released first.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

That’s good news?


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## mjthor1 (May 31, 2006)

Quick poll for people that have used Roku and Firestick. If you had to get rid of one and just use the other, which one would you keep? And why?


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

We started with all Roku's. We have since replaced all but 1 with Fire. The increased flexibility of the Fire thanks to side-loading is the deciding factor for us. Roku is what I would recommend to my grandmother - but for us we needed a bit more flexibility and the ability to to have access to more apps. Plus - we're big on voice control in the house and that just works better now with the Echo's. The Silk browser on the Fire is also perhaps the best browser on any streamer (including what can be loaded on the Shield). On the rare instances where I can't find an app - I can use the browser to stream any video on a website on the big screen. We used to use the Chromecast for that - but increasingly are using Silk.


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## dadrepus (Jan 4, 2012)

Although I am a Prime member the only Amazon product I had was a stick which i gave to my daughter. I have 1 Apple TV and 2 Roku's. I own stock in both companies so I support them. Stocks doing great, now. Too costly to own Amazon stock, wish I had bought that early in their initial IPO.

We really only watch 2 streaming services, Netflix and Prime. Don't need to side load others. Don't do Hulu, Youtube, we do have Locast when the OTA is wonky. Misses only watches the big 3 so the $5/month is no biggie.

I mosty use my Plex setup and Redbox for content.


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## steelersruleman (Aug 29, 2014)

mjthor1 said:


> Quick poll for people that have used Roku and Firestick. If you had to get rid of one and just use the other, which one would you keep? And why?


It really depends on who this Streamer is for.

If it is for, like stated above, your grandmother or someone without little or knowledge on how to use one these, then the ROKU is the way to go. It is the most straightforward/easiest to use between the two.

If you have knowledge on how to sideload apps, ones that are OK(legal) to load or others that are "really NOT legal"(and I am being kind here) to load, then fire tv stick is the way to go. Meaning if you want to hack your streamer, go with the Fire tv stick. And I would recommend getting the Fire TV 4K stick. Best/cheapest stick available IMHO.

The ABOSOLUTE BEST streamer IMHO is the Nvidia Shield, period. But it is costly compared to all the others(except Apple TV 4K), but it does EVERYTHING, and does it really well too boot.

And Nvidia continues too support it REALLY well(as of 2/26/19).


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

steelersruleman said:


> The ABOSOLUTE BEST streamer IMHO is the Nvidia Shield, period. But it is costly compared to all the others(except Apple TV 4K), but it does EVERYTHING, and does it really well too boot.


Except stream ATMOS from Netflix.


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## Dr. Moriarty (Mar 3, 2019)

So we are still in a holding pattern waiting for the Roku and Fire apps? I love the idea that I can access my Roamio stuff on any of our Roku TV's.


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## mrizzo80 (Apr 17, 2012)

Dr. Moriarty said:


> So we are still in a holding pattern waiting for the Roku and Fire apps? I love the idea that I can access my Roamio stuff on any of our Roku TV's.


Yes. They are still at least a month away, assuming the original estimate (Q2/Q3) was valid, which I'm sure it was. But, TiVo isn't known for shipping things on schedule.

TiVo To Bring Live Television and DVR Recordings to Apple TV, Roku, Fire TV - Zatz Not Funny!


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## JayMan747 (Nov 10, 2008)

mrizzo80 said:


> ... They are still at least a month away, assuming the original estimate (Q2/Q3) was valid, which I'm sure it was. But, TiVo isn't known for shipping things on schedule.


Any update on this?


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## mrizzo80 (Apr 17, 2012)

JayMan747 said:


> Any update on this?


I was just relaying information gathered from this forum or the blogger (Zatz Not Funny!) that usually has TiVo intel. I haven't heard anything.


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## CajunRuss (Oct 1, 2014)

Any news on the apps?


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## Sptrader (Oct 7, 2017)

CajunRuss said:


> Any news on the apps?


"The apps are scheduled for a Q2/Q3 launch, with the Android-powered Fire TV client hitting first and Apple TV bringing up the rear."


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## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

There's not much of Q2 left, but I had assumed the real timeframe was going to be Q3/Q4 from the get go.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

OrangeCrush said:


> There's not much of Q2 left, but I had assumed the real timeframe was going to be Q3/Q4 from the get go.


Yeah, pretty much a "fool me once ..." situation.

p.s. I'm not sure how/if this relates...

Log In or Sign Up to View

David Shoop (@tiv0_Shoop) has parted ways with TiVo, at least as an employee.



Tony_T said:


> David Shoop leaving Tivo.
> 
> Facebook:
> _Hey TiVo Fans, it is bittersweet that I let you know that after nearly 10 years, today will be my last day at TiVo. While I won't be moderating this channel, I will remain and join you on the other side as a customer of 3 TiVo's myself. There are other admins and moderators that will be taking over in my place and the Innovation group will continue. Trust me, you are in good hands. While you think your feedback may not be heard, I assure you the comments, questions and suggestions are getting to the right people and they have or are taking action.
> ...


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

As of June 2 it doesn't even sound like they were testing yet.

Somebody in the Facebook group offered to test, and Shoop said, " I will post something here when we are ready for testers."


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## omelet1978 (Mar 7, 2006)

Anyone know if you will need to have TE3 or TE4 (Hydra) to make this work? I’m a Live Guide holdout, and it’s not something I’m willing to give up at this point.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> As of June 2 it doesn't even sound like they were testing yet.
> 
> Somebody in the Facebook group offered to test, and Shoop said, " I will post something here when we are ready for testers."


Oof. And now Shoop's gone.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

krkaufman said:


> Oof. And now Shoop's gone.


Is that the man thinking tighter integration with plex was a good thing? Goodbye.


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## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

omelet1978 said:


> Anyone know if you will need to have TE3 or TE4 (Hydra) to make this work?


I asked Ted. The new apps should work fine w/ TE3 boxes.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

So the apps are going to use the transcoding function, like the iOS app does, right? So trick play could be a bit wonky. Just like the old FireTV app. Only difference is it'll have a Hydra UI. 

What they need is a headless DVR that transocdes during the recording part, like the Tablo so they don't have to do transcoding on the fly. That would make trick play work more like a Mini, where it's basically indistinguishable from the source TiVo.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

OrangeCrush said:


> I asked Ted. The new apps should work fine w/ TE3 boxes.


But the app itself will look like Hydra, causing TE3 user's heads to explode (I hate Hydra, I love TE3, I hate Hydra, I love TE3, etc. until meltdown).


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I like Hydra, but then I spend 99% of my time on Tivo watching recordings and 1% with the interface.


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## omelet1978 (Mar 7, 2006)

mdavej said:


> But the app itself will look like Hydra, causing TE3 user's heads to explode (I hate Hydra, I love TE3, I hate Hydra, I love TE3, etc. until meltdown).


I think I'd be ok with that since it's free and the primary TV I use is in the living room which is TE3. It beats having to run a cable through the house which is what I did previously with the Tivo Mini.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

I seriously doubt the experience will be on par with a mini.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

It will be useful when traveling to be able to watch Tivo on a Roku.


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## smark (Nov 20, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> So the apps are going to use the transcoding function, like the iOS app does, right? So trick play could be a bit wonky. Just like the old FireTV app. Only difference is it'll have a Hydra UI.
> 
> What they need is a headless DVR that transocdes during the recording part, like the Tablo so they don't have to do transcoding on the fly. That would make trick play work more like a Mini, where it's basically indistinguishable from the source TiVo.


I feel like that could be a product they release after seeing the uptake on app utilization.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

mdavej said:


> But the app itself will look like Hydra, causing TE3 user's heads to explode (I hate Hydra, I love TE3, I hate Hydra, I love TE3, etc. until meltdown).


As one of the targets of your comment,* you are a bad, bad person. 

* Sorry, the Grid Guide is just painful for my general use; I_ have_ tried.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> What they need is a headless DVR that transocdes during the recording part, like the Tablo so they don't have to do transcoding on the fly. That would make trick play work more like a Mini, where it's basically indistinguishable from the source TiVo.


Related to this, I think it would be nice if we could flag a recording or One Pass for automatic transcoding by the Bolt or Roamio. It's a process that could take place in the background and the resulting file could be stored on the host drive. Having it already processed might result in a faster copy to mobile devices or improved streaming trickplay, in-home or OOH.

I mentioned this to someone at TiVo earlier this year, who said he'd submit it to the enhanced feature request folks.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

A reply from Dylan Wondra on availability of the apps, via the FB TiVo.Innovate page a week ago...


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

"your adult grandchildren will love it!"


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

fyodor said:


> "your adult grandchildren will love it!"


The idea that his adult grandchildren would have a TiVo gave me a chuckle. Yeah, and they might own a Walkman too!


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

There is a tivo app for the firestick! (Sort of). In the firestick you can enable screen casting from android devices (in a hard to find menu item under settings / devices or something like that). I was able to successfully cast my galaxy s9+ to the firestick (using another incredibly difficult to find "smart view" setting) and it actually worked. Using the TiVo app on the phone did put a 720p picture in the middle of the 1080 screen - no upscaling. So it works as well as the android app works (at the moment, it is working OK). My Huawei tablet won't work though, it just keeps trying to find a compatible device and spinning a circle.


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## tgmii (Feb 21, 2002)

Any update on the Fire Stick/TV app? Seems like not a lot of comment since Jan, and this comment on July (only on Roku status). Really want to see this happen.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Well, I'll be closing my vacation home soon, so hopefully it will be available spring '20


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## stuart628 (Jul 5, 2006)

Is there anyone in the know that has updated any info on this at all? fall tv season is coming up soon and well I want to make sure my tivo is in the right room as I only have a bolt and will need it in three different locations to be able to view. I know I know get am mini but well 5 kids and lots of doctor bills lately.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

stuart628 said:


> Is there anyone in the know that has updated any info on this at all? fall tv season is coming up soon and well I want to make sure my tivo is in the right room as I only have a bolt and will need it in three different locations to be able to view. I know I know get am mini but well 5 kids and lots of doctor bills lately.


It sounds like TiVo has a slew of announcements to make at some point in October, including the new TiVo Edge line of DVRs as well as a new TiVo+ app that offers free, ad-supported content, plus recommendations across other providers.

So if these new TiVo apps for Roku, Apple TV, etc. are going to see the light of day this year, their October unveiling event would seem like a logical time for it to happen. If not then, well, maybe at CES in Jan?

And I hate to say it, but it's possible that TiVo has decided not to roll out those apps (or maybe to only roll them out for use with pay operator-provided TiVo equipment). Why do I say that? Well, the hot news that came out in a CNN story yesterday is that TiVo is going to begin selling their own $50 Android TV-based streaming dongle in 2020. That will be a device that directly competes against Roku, Fire TV and Apple TV. So why extend TiVo features to competing streaming platforms?

TiVo Plans $50 Android TV Stick For 2020


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## stuart628 (Jul 5, 2006)

NashGuy said:


> It sounds like TiVo has a slew of announcements to make at some point in October, including the new TiVo Edge line of DVRs as well as a new TiVo+ app that offers free, ad-supported content, plus recommendations across other providers.
> 
> So if these new TiVo apps for Roku, Apple TV, etc. are going to see the light of day this year, their October unveiling event would seem like a logical time for it to happen. If not then, well, maybe at CES in Jan?
> 
> ...


Dang it I didnt see that at all, man I really love my tivo and want to use it over a directv dvr...but its getting harder to justify some of this stuff...oh well I will give it a look and maybe move the bolt to the bedroom where we will do 95% of our viewing of recorded programs


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

NashGuy said:


> It sounds like TiVo has a slew of announcements to make at some point in October, including the new TiVo Edge line of DVRs as well as a new TiVo+ app that offers free, ad-supported content, plus recommendations across other providers.
> 
> So if these new TiVo apps for Roku, Apple TV, etc. are going to see the light of day this year, their October unveiling event would seem like a logical time for it to happen. If not then, well, maybe at CES in Jan?
> 
> ...


Well, one problem with having lied about the roll out to Roku, Apple TV, etc, and just going with their own $50 dollar Android stick is why would anyone trust them and why would anyone buy it with it's limited content compared to resource and money rich Apple or the years proven trusted and true, Roku. Unless, TiVo is harbors some death wish.


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## vhr75 (May 12, 2005)

So does this mean no Tivo app on Roku?!?!?!What a shame!


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

vhr75 said:


> So does this mean no Tivo app on Roku?!?!?!What a shame!


We don't know yet. But I wouldn't give up hope. As I've thought about it, it sounds like TiVo's new strategy going forward is to pull in any many users as possible in order to show them ads and make ad revenue (in addition to the service subscription revenue that TiVo has always relied on). If TiVo is going to come out with their own 4K streaming stick that costs only $50, I don't think they're going to be make much, if any, money on hardware sales of that unit. (Just like I don't think Roku and Amazon make much money on their streaming boxes/sticks priced at $50 or less.) What I think TiVo really wants to do is get as many folks as possible using their upcoming TiVo+ app, which will feature free streaming content with ads. Why restrict that app to only their $50 stick? Why not make it available for Roku, Apple TV and Fire TV too, to get as many viewers as possible? That's what other free, ad-supported video apps do.

So the next question is whether this new TiVo+ app is the same thing as the long-awaited TiVo app for Roku, etc. that will let the user access live and recorded TV from a regular TiVo DVR. My *guess* is that it is. Rather than putting out two different TiVo apps for streaming devices, they'll just have one that does it all.

Sounds like TiVo will reveal all the details in October...


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

NashGuy said:


> We don't know yet. But I wouldn't give up hope. As I've thought about it, it sounds like TiVo's new strategy going forward is to pull in any many users as possible in order to show them ads and make ad revenue (in addition to the service subscription revenue that TiVo has always relied on). If TiVo is going to come out with their own 4K streaming stick that costs only $50, I don't think they're going to be make much, if any, money on hardware sales of that unit. (Just like I don't think Roku and Amazon make much money on their streaming boxes/sticks priced at $50 or less.) What I think TiVo really wants to do is get as many folks as possible using their upcoming TiVo+ app, which will feature free streaming content with ads. Why restrict that app to only their $50 stick? Why not make it available for Roku, Apple TV and Fire TV too, to get as many viewers as possible? That's what other free, ad-supported video apps do.
> 
> So the next question is whether this new TiVo+ app is the same thing as the long-awaited TiVo app for Roku, etc. that will let the user access live and recorded TV from a regular TiVo DVR. My *guess* is that it is. Rather than putting out two different TiVo apps for streaming devices, they'll just have one that does it all.
> 
> Sounds like TiVo will reveal all the details in October...


 That sounds reasonable, and could explain the delay.

I sure hope it's happening, and soonish. Could really use the Tivo in another room, especially with the fall season in full swing.


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## EWiser (Oct 2, 2008)

TiVo needs to have the streaming app to keep them current. Giving people that stream TV a reason to buy a TiVo to record over the air shows. Letting you choose how they want to enjoy their tv shows.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

Puppy76 said:


> I sure hope it's happening, and soonish. Could really use the Tivo in another room, especially with the fall season in full swing.


A TiVo Mini VOX is cheap and will give you a better experience than a generic all software streaming app. Have you seen the iOS app?


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

CloudAtlas said:


> A TiVo Mini VOX is cheap and will give you a better experience than a generic all software streaming app. Have you seen the iOS app?


The Mini VOX would probably do a little better job. But how about if I want to take a TV out to the patio, or temporarily put one in a spare bedroom and want to watch my cable?
With an app and whichever box the app runs on that is simple enough and has the huge advantage of not needing a coax cable in those places.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

So much for that Q2/Q3 time frame. It's now Q4 and there has been zero additional news about this. Why do they keep promising this and then not delivering?


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

CloudAtlas said:


> A TiVo Mini VOX is cheap and will give you a better experience than a generic all software streaming app. Have you seen the iOS app?


I certainly acknowledge the entertainment benefits of a TiVo Mini VOX box. But cost ($180 retail) and connectivity (TiVo company line: wired only) are not amongst them. The earlier-announced TiVo Mini Wireless Adapter at least, if it emerges into the light of day, will handle the latter (at least for some, depending on its UI compatibility).

For some people, these various barriers might make a TiVo Roku/Fire TV/Apple TV app attractive, esp. for some uses (e.g. home office or kitchen use; tablet use on a deck/patio), even with some quality/feature limitations.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

lparsons21 said:


> The Mini VOX would probably do a little better job. But how about if I want to take a TV out to the patio, or temporarily put one in a spare bedroom and want to watch my cable?
> With an app and whichever box the app runs on that is simple enough and has the huge advantage of not needing a coax cable in those places.


Well you're moving the goal posts but you're right WiFi streaming is not supported by TiVO only Ethernet and coax. Though there are users here who use low cost WiFi devices to get around the Minis limitation. You then connect the Mini to the WiFi device via Ethernet or coax.

I do think a streaming client is a good thing especially if the experience is the same on all devices.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> So much for that Q2/Q3 time frame. It's now Q4 and there has been zero additional news about this. Why do they keep promising this and then not delivering?


A poster noted earlier that TiVo's quarters start a month later than the calendar year, as TiVo's financial year begins in February. And so I'll give TiVo thru this month before I bring out my pitchfork. 

From a marketing perspective, TiVo is going to be shooting itself in the foot if it doesn't get its new tech. out this month/next, to gain the advantage from holiday sales (and remember, this is the company that is suffering the bad customer relations and press in bringing out pre-roll ads, to get a limited amount of extra revenue per customer).


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## samsauce29 (Nov 30, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> So much for that Q2/Q3 time frame. It's now Q4 and there has been zero additional news about this. Why do they keep promising this and then not delivering?


Agreed. Was quite excited for this and the wireless adapter when they were announced. Now that months have passed with no further word, it's very disappointing.

Have started to transition to the Roku and YouTube TV approach the past two weeks. Sadly, it is time. The ability to have up to six individual profiles, custom channel lineups, and access from any phone or browser is just too hard to pass up!


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## OneFore9 (Jan 5, 2017)

Another missed timeline. Maybe Tivo should stand for

*T*his 
*I*s
*V*aporware,
*O*bviously.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

This isn't the first time they've done this with this particular feature though. Years ago they released a FireTV app and said it was just a preview release beta and that it would get better over time. They never updated it, ever. It just sat stagnant and barely functional for a couple of years and then they removed it.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

CloudAtlas said:


> A TiVo Mini VOX is cheap and will give you a better experience than a generic all software streaming app. Have you seen the iOS app?


It's not cheap, it costs more even than an Apple TV, and that's BEFORE adding the cost of an Ethernet to Wifi adapter (if that even works), and then it's at best a mediocre streaming device, so if you're using other services you probably need a separate device anyway. It actually costs roughly like just getting another DVR for another room.

And yeah, I use the iOS Tivo program about every day. It's not 100% perfect (I want multitasking support on the iPad) but it's pretty good.

The programs they were demoing back in January already looked finished and good.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> This isn't the first time they've done this with this particular feature though. Years ago they released a FireTV app and said it was just a preview release beta and that it would get better over time. They never updated it, ever. It just sat stagnant and barely functional for a couple of years and then they removed it.


THAT doesn't bode well

This is super disappointing to not only not have them, but to get zero news since JANUARY, even after blowing past your announced release date.

I could really, really make use of this now.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> This isn't the first time they've done this with this particular feature though. Years ago they released a FireTV app and said it was just a preview release beta and that it would get better over time. They never updated it, ever. It just sat stagnant and barely functional for a couple of years and then they removed it.


The only reason I bought a FireTV Stick was the Tivo app that disappeared a couple months later.


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## Jonathan Dornblaser (Feb 3, 2017)

I agree... I bought a roku thinking that I could use the tivo app on it eventually. UGH.. come on TIVO!!


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## 241705 (Mar 9, 2010)

Every time that I see there's an update on this thread, I hope there's news that the Roku app is rolling out. I should know better by now...


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## muzzymate (Sep 2, 2004)

blackngold75 said:


> Every time that I see there's an update on this thread, I hope there's news that the Roku app is rolling out. I should know better by now...


Yep, I could really use word that the FireTV app had a surprise release today. Will need to stream video to a projector that doesn't have access to cable or ethernet this weekend. May have to turn to using a free trial of YouTube TV. And with the ad-inserts coming to TE4, they really don't want to encourage me to be looking at alternatives right now.


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## Edmund (Nov 8, 2002)

This code will get you two free weeks of You tube tv:

M7WUNWV42KCH


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Is there a reason why Tivo couldn't simply remove the restriction from the android app that prevents it from working on a fire tv stick and let customers side load it?


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Jonathan Dornblaser said:


> I agree... I bought a roku thinking that I could use the tivo app on it eventually. UGH.. come on TIVO!!


Well to be fair, just about any app runs better on Roku so if you want streaming you have a good choice now.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

A functional Tivo set top box streaming app would kill mini sales. Tivo adds additional security to ensure their existing android app will not function when it is side loaded to a set top box. Tivo was even able to disable the functionality of the fire tv beta app on the fire TV.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

shwru980r said:


> A functional Tivo set top box streaming app would kill mini sales. Tivo adds additional security to ensure their existing android app will not function when it is side loaded to a set top box. Tivo was even able to disable the functionality of the fire tv beta app on the fire TV.


And yet, TiVo said earlier this year that it was bringing out the app. Note that a reason for a Mini box still exists: the better performance and further features that an app won't bring.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Mikeguy said:


> And yet, TiVo said earlier this year that it was bringing out the app. Note that a reason for a Mini box still exists: the better performance and further features that an app won't bring.


Other OTA DVR competitors are still in business with headless DVRs with trans coded streaming as the only option. Many TV markets have compressed video quality on both Cable and OTA so that the higher bit rate offered by a mini is less of a factor. The mini's inferior streaming capabilities and high cost are becoming more of a factor.


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## RJR_22 (Apr 14, 2019)

muzzymate said:


> Yep, I could really use word that the FireTV app had a surprise release today. Will need to stream video to a projector that doesn't have access to cable or ethernet this weekend. May have to turn to using a free trial of YouTube TV. And with the ad-inserts coming to TE4, they really don't want to encourage me to be looking at alternatives right now.


Sorry this is a little too late for you but I thought I'd share an interim solution that's worked for me so far in case it helps anyone else. I found an app in FireTV called FitzyTV (don't know if it's new or if I just stumbled upon it at a good time). It basically aggregates all of the live streams from the various network apps and pulls them into one app with a grid style guide. You log in with your tv provider credentials and it pulls in all of the live streams that you have access to through your provider. I have Comcast which got me almost all channels I routinely watch including the channels that show the SF Giants, A's and Warriors. The only channel it didn't pull in was CBS since they have their own subscription. The nice part of the app is you can add multiple credentials. So I added a locast account to it which currently includes local CBS feeds and now I get the CBS channels (mainly to watch NFL on Sunday).

I have it set up on my fire stick which I keep in the guest room and I take with me on business trips. Now i can watch local news, and my local teams play when I travel in addition to a user friendly free tv solution for family and friends when they stay over (by free I mean no new cost on top of what I was already paying to Comcast and TiVo).

Doesn't check all the boxes of a fire tv TiVo app since you can't access recordings but other than that it does the job.


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## gary.buhrmaster (Nov 5, 2015)

shwru980r said:


> Is there a reason why Tivo couldn't simply remove the restriction from the android app that prevents it from working on a fire tv stick and let customers side load it?


One issue with the Amazon FireOS android clone is that it is not Google playready certified (well, duh!), but more importantly does not provide an alternative validation API to be able to attest that the device has not been rooted/compromised. For content that requires an end-to-end protected path (cci=copy-once/never markings for cable), that means such content cannot be rendered on that platform. Amazon is aware of the issue of a lack of certification API. but if/when Amazon might address the issue is currently unknown (or at least un-shared with the rest of us).


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

RJR_22 said:


> I found an app in FireTV called FitzyTV (don't know if it's new or if I just stumbled upon it at a good time). It basically aggregates all of the live streams from the various network apps and pulls them into one app with a grid style guide. You log in with your tv provider credentials and it pulls in all of the live streams that you have access to through your provider.


This is the same way Channels DVR works, except that it records locally, and also supports the HDHomeRun (and costs more).


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

RJR_22 said:


> FitzyTV


Interesting! I see they are free (with added commercials) or subscription ($10/mo) and offer a cloud DVR service.

This compares to Channels which offers a $25 live TV app or an $8/mo subscription with _local _DVR software among its options.

The Channels local version will integrate with a HomeRun box for OTA but also works with TVE and streaming services, and also offers another free option I didn't mention here. Fitzy looks like a better price but fewer features.


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## OddJobav8r (May 18, 2017)

Channels is fantastic. They have innovated the way I had hoped Tivo would. Since Tivo refused to embrace 3rd party streaming devices and went all in on hardware and the minis, I shut down my two Tivos and sold my minis for pennies on the dollar. Tivo could easily implement what Channels has done with an app and TVE implementation as many of us called on them to do years ago. Ironically, they are holding onto an outdated business model that they used to disrupt the tv industry and are now being disrupted out of existence themselves. If I didn't have lifetime service on my Tivos, they would be on Ebay right now instead of sitting in my closet just in case Tivo figures it's way into relevance again.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

I tried Channels for a while. It just wasn't as easy to operate as TiVo. If I was the only one using it, I could have dealt with it. Still, I'm happy we went back to TiVo.


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## OddJobav8r (May 18, 2017)

Interesting. My very non technical wife and all four kids think Channels on the AppleTV is even easier to use than Tivo. Especially since the DVRed shows on Channels integrate into the "Up Next" queue on the Apple TV app. It's seamless. I hope the Tivo app does the same thing, but knowing this dev team, it won't.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

OddJobav8r said:


> Interesting. My very non technical wife and all four kids think Channels on the AppleTV is even easier to use than Tivo. Especially since the DVRed shows on Channels integrate into the "Up Next" queue on the Apple TV app. It's seamless. I hope the Tivo app does the same thing, but knowing this dev team, it won't.


I never noticed that. That's pretty cool. I learn new things about Channels all the time. Thanks


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## EWiser (Oct 2, 2008)

I wish we could have someone else make an app that could read the TiVo files and be able to stream them from our TiVo’s. Just like the TiVo download app’s do. As it looks like TiVo has decided not to move forward with this app that they said the where going to release.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

EWiser said:


> I wish we could have someone else make an app that could read the TiVo files and be able to stream them from our TiVo's. Just like the TiVo download app's do. As it looks like TiVo has decided not to move forward with this app that they said the where going to release.


It seems like the TivoToGo bundle for Plex might do the job.

TiVo Streaming Plugin for Plex TiVoToGo.Bundle


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## spiderpumpkin (Dec 1, 2017)

EWiser said:


> I wish we could have someone else make an app that could read the TiVo files and be able to stream them from our TiVo's. Just like the TiVo download app's do. As it looks like TiVo has decided not to move forward with this app that they said the where going to release.


I've started to move to Channels DVR that can utilized multiple HDHomeruns. I still use a Tivo Bolt Vox occasionally but like the options Channels DVR provides. Channels - Live TV, everywhere


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## EWiser (Oct 2, 2008)

spiderpumpkin said:


> I've started to move to Channels DVR that can utilized multiple HDHomeruns. I still use a Tivo Bolt Vox occasionally but like the options Channels DVR provides. Channels - Live TV, everywhere


Don't really want to buy another DVR platform.


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## EWiser (Oct 2, 2008)

shwru980r said:


> It seems like the TivoToGo bundle for Plex might do the job.
> 
> TiVo Streaming Plugin for Plex TiVoToGo.Bundle


Problem here is that the plug in is broken with Plex now. When you go to the last page of the thread people can not play their recordings.


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

EWiser said:


> Don't really want to buy another DVR platform.


You don't have to really buy another DVR platform. You can set it up on a PC, NAS or nVidia Shield, whichever you may have already, and then test it out using their TVE (TV Everywhere) streaming DVR feature.

If you like it then you can invest in an HDHOMERUN tuner for local OTA networks to get integrated into the Channels guide or better yet just use Locast if they serve your area.


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## EWiser (Oct 2, 2008)

Any you have to buy a piece of equipment to use it.


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

EWiser said:


> Any you have to buy a piece of equipment to use it.


As I said, not if you already have a PC (to use as the DVR server) which most already do, or you happen to have an NAS or nVidia Shield and USB HDD (which many may also have).

Do you have any of those items already? An old laptop or desktop maybe?

What area are you in? Is it served by Locast? Many areas also support TVE for ABC, FOX, NBC as well if you aren't serviced by Locast.

So no, you don't always "have to buy a piece of equipment to use it". It can all be streaming based with no hardware tuner like the HDHR needed.


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## EWiser (Oct 2, 2008)

No I don't want to waste an computer on stream a program to another tv 
No need for a NAS media device as I can stream any movie I would want to see. An don't like keeping movies around to maybe watch sometime. 
Locast is is for watching linear tv which I don't do. Just want to watch the 10 shows I TiVo on a app on my streaming box. TiVo has shown it is possible to do this. I am not alone in wanting this feature.


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## Scooter Scott (Jun 1, 2015)

PJO1966 said:


> I tried Channels for a while. It just wasn't as easy to operate as TiVo. If I was the only one using it, I could have dealt with it. Still, I'm happy we went back to TiVo.


I've went back and forth...but I have finally been rolling with channels full time for the last couple months and have only used the TiVo for watching recordings I didn't have on Channels. The more I use it, the more feedback I give to the devs and the better the app becomes. Multiply that by all of their users....the devs are doing a fantastic job with this platform. My TiVo will be up for sale soon.


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## steinbch (Nov 23, 2007)

OddJobav8r said:


> Interesting. My very non technical wife and all four kids think Channels on the AppleTV is even easier to use than Tivo. Especially since the DVRed shows on Channels integrate into the "Up Next" queue on the Apple TV app. It's seamless. I hope the Tivo app does the same thing, but knowing this dev team, it won't.


Does the Channels app show up as an option for shows if you search for them via Siri? That would be the icing on the cake as a way to transition completely away from TiVo...


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

EWiser said:


> No I don't want to waste an computer on stream a program to another tv
> No need for a NAS media device as I can stream any movie I would want to see. An don't like keeping movies around to maybe watch sometime.
> Locast is is for watching linear tv which I don't do. Just want to watch the 10 shows I TiVo on a app on my streaming box. TiVo has shown it is possible to do this. I am not alone in wanting this feature.


Sounds like TiVo is just what you need then. Don't worry about the others, you're good to go.


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## NickTheGreat (Aug 31, 2015)

It's funny because I bought a HD Homerun Prime to try to 'roll my own' whole house DVR. I gave up on it, and I think the WAF would have been quite low. 

I bought the Tivo and have been very happy with how simple and effective it is. 

I don't really want to go backwards to get recorded shows elsewhere. I remember when I could buy $99 mini's off Amazon. Wish I would have bought 4 or 5 more at that time . . .


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## EWiser (Oct 2, 2008)

If you watch a bunch of cable thru the whole house then maybe one would invest in the home rum Hd and channels. In a couple of years there maybe little use for recording linear tv. An on demand streaming will be the standard. We are in a transition away from linear tv.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The HDHomeRun worked well when Windows Media Center still existed. Once they discontinued it I disconnected my HDHomeRun and haven’t used it since.


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

EWiser said:


> No I don't want to waste an computer on stream a program to another tv
> No need for a NAS media device as I can stream any movie I would want to see. An don't like keeping movies around to maybe watch sometime.
> Locast is is for watching linear tv which I don't do. Just want to watch the 10 shows I TiVo on a app on my streaming box. TiVo has shown it is possible to do this. I am not alone in wanting this feature.


I'm not trying to force you to do anything, but it really seems like you're completely missing the concept of what Channels *"DVR"* is and does.

Things like the PC or NAS are the *"DVR"* in this case, effectively the same as your main TiVo. It's not to "stream movies to your TVs" or anything, unless of course you have one recorded on your *"DVR"*, the same as if you recorded one on your TiVo.

Sure, Locast when used without the Channels *"DVR"* system is just a linear TV solution, but when used as a source in your Channels *"DVR"* system you can then record said Locast channels, just as a TiVo or any other *"DVR"* does. Locast in this instance is the "antenna", and Channels Server is the "TiVo".

The whole reason this solution was suggested is because it can essentially give you what you're asking for RIGHT NOW.............



> ....... TiVo (Channels DVR in this case) on a app on my streaming box. TiVo has shown it is possible to do this. I am not alone in wanting this feature.


Either way, good luck with your decision. I and many others are here to help whichever way you go. 

PS - I use both.


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## Kevin Morris (Jan 1, 2020)

BillyClyde said:


> I'm not trying to force you to do anything, but it really seems like you're completely missing the concept of what Channels *"DVR"* is and does.
> 
> Things like the PC or NAS are the *"DVR"* in this case, effectively the same as your main TiVo. It's not to "stream movies to your TVs" or anything, unless of course you have one recorded on your *"DVR"*, the same as if you recorded one on your TiVo.
> 
> ...


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## Kevin Morris (Jan 1, 2020)

Ok. The app issue is a pain, but, a quick workaround is to open Internet on Firestick, and the navigate to the Tivoli login site, and the just log into your account. Your shows will be right there. Bookmark it, and you will always have access. Works fairly well.
Kevin


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## Kevin Morris (Jan 1, 2020)

Sorry, Tivo. Autocorrect gets me every time.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Loved the Tivoli Gardens. Recent TiVo shenanigans, I could do without.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

Speaking of Tivo and apps. Everyone craps on TiVo and Amazon prime or Netflix but...my Samsung 4k from 2018 does not do Amazon prime video as well as my Roamio. I noticed the other day the tv which has a great pic and does 4k nicely was not doing x-ray . I thought maybe they stopped doing it on the show I was watching. (Banshee). Anyway I turned to my Roamio and it now officially outperforms my beloved Samsung TV.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

mattyro7878 said:


> Speaking of Tivo and apps. Everyone craps on TiVo and Amazon prime or Netflix but...my Samsung 4k from 2018 does not do Amazon prime video as well as my Roamio.


I don't think anyone upholds "smart TVs" as the standard -- except the ones based on platforms that are also available as standalone boxes -- Android, Fire, and Roku. Add Apple (not built into any TVs AFAIK) and you have probably the full list of worthwhile streaming platforms.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

gary.buhrmaster said:


> One issue with the Amazon FireOS android clone is that it is not Google playready certified (well, duh!), but more importantly does not provide an alternative validation API to be able to attest that the device has not been rooted/compromised. For content that requires an end-to-end protected path (cci=copy-once/never markings for cable), that means such content cannot be rendered on that platform. Amazon is aware of the issue of a lack of certification API. but if/when Amazon might address the issue is currently unknown (or at least un-shared with the rest of us).


my understanding is that was the holdup with Disney+ for it (which ended up launching at the same time as other platforms, but that was up in the air until the last minute).

though I won't buy a firetv because they leave it pairing 24/7 which is completely insecure and broken.

aaaand we're now 1 year from the announcement. Yay?

maybe instead of these three "apps" they're going to give this capability to their announced android tv device? IF it's secure, it's $50 I guess which isn't too bad.

If that device CAN'T stream from a Tivo, then I'm even more baffled about what the point is. Not that I'd begrudge them making their own streaming box, I guess, but it's weird if it's not integrated with their DVRs.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Has there been any news on the TiVo apps for Apple TV, fire tv, Roku and Android?


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

tazzmission said:


> Has there been any news on the TiVo apps for Apple TV, fire tv, Roku and Android?


no


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## The Bird (Mar 31, 2001)

The announcement is a year old now. I was waiting for it to replace my broken mini in the bedroom (Didn't want to invest in another mini). I've since tried YouTube TV and it does almost everything the Tivo did and in all rooms. Sadly, at this point I don't remember the last time I used Tivo.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

The Bird said:


> The announcement is a year old now. I was waiting for it to replace my broken mini in the bedroom (Didn't want to invest in another mini). I've since tried YouTube TV and it does almost everything the Tivo did and in all rooms. Sadly, at this point I don't remember the last time I used Tivo.


I'm currently testing out channels DVR with two HDHR primes. I still have my Bolt+ because my wife likes TiVo. I could care less. I'm about the best option of the least money. I'm about to turn off cable tv and just use Internet only on Fios with YTTV or the Hike/ESPN/Disney Plus deal.

I wanted to give these TiVo apps a try on Apple TV before dropping TiVo since I have a lifetime deal on the bolt.

I fear the apps are never coming.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## The Bird (Mar 31, 2001)

I wish someone from Tivo would either give us an update on the status of their announcement, now almost a year old. Even if its just an apology stating they tried but could not get it to work reliably. I guess they are too busy dealing with ownership changes to address old promises.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

The Bird said:


> I wish someone from Tivo would either give us an update on the status of their announcement, now almost a year old. Even if its just an apology stating they tried but could not get it to work reliably. I guess they are too busy dealing with ownership changes to address old promises.


@TiVo_Ted has been the TiVo dude posting here, sometimes, with updates and TiVo information; but apart from lurking here every now and again, he hasn't posted, now, for 2+ months. 

I agree that, at the very least for marketing and customer relations purposes, TiVo should have someone here providing its constituency with at least_ some_ info. But apparently, TiVo doesn't think that way. (Personally, I just don't get it.)


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## EWiser (Oct 2, 2008)

We should know something January 7th as that is when CES starts.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

EWiser said:


> We should know something January 7th as that is when CES starts.


I was just thinking that too. I forgot it's this month. Here's to hoping they announce a forthcoming release.

For what it's worth (not much) I called TiVo a few months ago asking about the apps. And as I suspected they know nothing about it. In fact the person I spoke to didn't even know these apps were announced and demoed a year ago.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## David B Gregory (Feb 26, 2018)

mcf57 said:


> TiVo launching live TV/DVR apps for Apple TV, Roku and Fire TV | FierceVideo
> 
> FINALLY this is coming. I have been wanting a simple inexpensive solution for some spare rooms that aren't used a lot (guests and a basement area). I already have some Minis, but didn't wasnt to spend $150+ for each room. Glad to see TiVo is getting on board with this.


I won't hold my breath


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## pldoolittle (May 2, 2002)

EWiser said:


> We should know something January 7th as that is when CES starts.


Just as a reminder, this was announced last CES


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## tivolocity (Aug 12, 2002)

Prime and Netflix keep freezing on my Minis, and I don't want to replace them with VOXes. I hope we hear something about apps next week. Otherwise, I'm getting pretty close to pulling the plug on TiVo.

I've used both Plex and Channels with HDHomeRuns. Plex is great at a lot of things. But, for a DVR solution Channels is far superior and the best solution for TiVo replacement that I've had experience with. I would switch over to Channels now except my wife hates the Apple TV remote (I can't blame her). Channels also supports Fire TV as a client. Not Roku yet.


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

tivolocity said:


> Prime and Netflix keep freezing on my Minis, and I don't want to replace them with VOXes. I hope we hear something about apps next week. Otherwise, I'm getting pretty close to pulling the plug on TiVo.
> 
> I've used both Plex and Channels with HDHomeRuns. Plex is great at a lot of things. But, for a DVR solution Channels is far superior and the best solution for TiVo replacement that I've had experience with. I would switch over to Channels now except my wife hates the Apple TV remote (I can't blame her). Channels also supports Fire TV as a client. Not Roku yet.


I'm in the exact same situation as you. I'm ready to cancel TiVo in favor of Channels, but the wife won't have it.

I'm also waiting to hear what big announcement they're going to make at CES (which they said they're doing in an email I got), hopefully regarding the apps. If they release those for AppleTV or FireTV then I'll most likely stick with TiVo if the app's quality is sufficient.

BTW @tivolocity, there is a rudimentary beta app available for Channels on the Roku.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

BillyClyde said:


> I'm in the exact same situation as you. I'm ready to cancel TiVo in favor of Channels, but the wife won't have it.
> 
> I'm also waiting to hear what big announcement they're going to make at CES (which they said they're doing in an email I got), hopefully regarding the apps. If they release those for AppleTV or FireTV then I'll most likely stick with TiVo if the app's quality is sufficient.
> 
> BTW @tivolocity, there is a rudimentary beta app available for Channels on the Roku.


I'm waiting it out a bit longer too now that CES is coming. I'm already using channels with HDHR primes right now on the two tv's I use most. My wife still prefers the TiVo and doesn't want to change to anything else. But I might just do it on her main tv anyway. We shall see.

The beta channels app for Roku does exist anymore. I looked into that. I have a Roku tv in the bedroom and would have liked to sees a channels Roku app. Instead I use an Apple TV there as well as the other TVs in the house:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

tazzmission said:


> I'm waiting it out a bit longer too now that CES is coming. I'm already using channels with HDHR primes right now on the two tv's I use most. My wife still prefers the TiVo and doesn't want to change to anything else. But I might just do it on her main tv anyway. We shall see.
> 
> *The beta channels app for Roku does exist anymore*. I looked into that. I have a Roku tv in the bedroom and would have liked to sees a channels Roku app. Instead I use an Apple TV there as well as the other TVs in the house:
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


You're saying the Roku Beta app "does" or "doesn't" exist anymore? I'm pretty sure I read that it's still available to use, but the developers just abandoned the project and what's left is what it is with no further development.

My wife hates the AppleTV remote too. I'm thinking if I use the Harmony we have or try one of the third party One4All Streamer remotes then it could alleviate a lot of the pain of switching over to Channels DVR.

Man I wish TiVo would realize what an amazing remote they engineered years ago and just create a cool TiVo peanut Universal Remote. I think they'd make a killing in sales of those if they do it right and have a learning function with the right equipment support! They should team up with Logitech Harmony on it!


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

BillyClyde said:


> You're saying the Roku Beta app "does" or "doesn't" exist anymore? I'm pretty sure I read that it's still available to use, but the developers just abandoned the project and what's left is what it is with no further development.
> 
> My wife hates the AppleTV remote too. I'm thinking if I use the Harmony we have or try one of the third party One4All Streamer remotes then it could alleviate a lot of the pain of switching over to Channels DVR.
> 
> Man I wish TiVo would realize what an amazing remote they engineered years ago and just create a cool TiVo peanut Universal Remote. I think they'd make a killing in sales of those if they do it right and have a learning function with the right equipment support! They should team up with Logitech Harmony on it!


The beta of the channels app for Roku is no longer available. That is what their tech support told me. You cannot find it if you search the Roku channels store either.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## EWiser (Oct 2, 2008)

pldoolittle said:


> Just as a reminder, this was announced last CES


That's why I posted that CES starts on January 7th.


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## tivolocity (Aug 12, 2002)

tazzmission said:


> The beta of the channels app for Roku is no longer available. That is what their tech support told me. You cannot find it if you search the Roku channels store either.


I don't think it's in the Roku store. You have to add it through the website. As far as I can tell it's still available ( Roku ). Personally, I could never get it to work.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

tivolocity said:


> I don't think it's in the Roku store. You have to add it through the website. As far as I can tell it's still available ( Roku ). Personally, I could never get it to work.


That link isn't working. Just redirects me to the main Roku page.

Correction. The link worked. I'll give it a try. Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Regarding the Apple TV remote, it looks like garbage to me, BUT I think maybe you can use the older (still available) more normal Apple TV remote with it, and also you can train an Apple TV to work with any remote?

(I’d probably buy an Apple TV if not for the price, and am iffy on Roku and firetv, the latter in particular because I got rid of a first gen firetv because they left the box in pairing mode 24/7, which is a security vulnerability...it sounds like the Roku’s at least ONLY turn on pairing mode for 30 seconds after they reboot, or when you explicitly tell them to) 

ugh, 4 days until.....maybe they announce and then don’t deliver something else? Maybe they announce that Tivo android stick, only it’s running android 2.x and won’t be updates, and it doesn’t stream content from Tivo dvrs, and it doesn’t come out either lol


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

I like the Apple TV remote. But you can program any remote work with AppleTV. It's in the settings even.


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

trip1eX said:


> I like the Apple TV remote. But you can program any remote work with AppleTV. It's in the settings even.


Can you help point me in the right direction to do this? I'm thinking I'll use one of my awesome TiVo peanut remotes for this!


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## EWiser (Oct 2, 2008)

To set up any remote to work with the AppleTV

Use Any Remote With Apple TV | The Tech Guy


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

BillyClyde said:


> Can you help point me in the right direction to do this? I'm thinking I'll use one of my awesome TiVo peanut remotes for this!


Settings/Remotes and Devices/Learn Remote.


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

EWiser said:


> To set up any remote to work with the AppleTV
> 
> Use Any Remote With Apple TV | The Tech Guy





trip1eX said:


> Settings/Remotes and Devices/Learn Remote.


That's so awesome. Thanks guys!!! I'll report back my results!


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## EWiser (Oct 2, 2008)

I have set up a TiVo remote to work with the Apple TV. But I use the swipes and double taps of the AppleTV remote too much to use it.


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

EWiser said:


> I have set up a TiVo remote to work with the Apple TV. But I use the swipes and double taps of the AppleTV remote too much to use it.


You can't program a button like the TiVo home button to coincide with the AppleTV Home button, and then just click that twice? I understand the swipes would be harder, but maybe if you hold down the arrow button it could do a slide across sort of thing?


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

BillyClyde said:


> I'm in the exact same situation as you. I'm ready to cancel TiVo in favor of Channels, but the wife won't have it.
> 
> I'm also waiting to hear what big announcement they're going to make at CES (which they said they're doing in an email I got), hopefully regarding the apps. If they release those for AppleTV or FireTV then I'll most likely stick with TiVo if the app's quality is sufficient.
> 
> BTW @tivolocity, there is a rudimentary beta app available for Channels on the Roku.


It think with the Tivo app you won't be able to watch the video in the native resolution like you can with a mini and trick play will be degraded. The Tivo app may not be a viable replacement for a Mini for some users.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Does the previous Apple remote work without configuration?

Apple Remote

Although I actually own a couple of IR Roku remotes that MIGHT be perfect for an Apple TV...


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

shwru980r said:


> It think with the Tivo app you won't be able to watch the video in the native resolution like you can with a mini and trick play will be degraded. The Tivo app may not be a viable replacement for a Mini for some users.


The Channels DVR app works this way and the quality is very good, including its trick play functions.

Another reason I would use the apps is because they're transcoded to MP4 so then I can use them with the TiVo I have at my daughter's house remotely.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

Regarding the apple tv remote, the HDMI - CEC works really well and allows for navigation, selection, playback, etc. I just use my Sony TV remote.


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## EWiser (Oct 2, 2008)

BillyClyde said:


> You can't program a button like the TiVo home button to coincide with the AppleTV Home button, and then just click that twice? I understand the swipes would be harder, but maybe if you hold down the arrow button it could do a slide across sort of thing?


With you can do the home button the reason you double tap the home but is to swipe. Also the home button on tap takes you into the the AppleTV app to watch the next tv show.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

tivolocity said:


> Prime and Netflix keep freezing on my Minis, and I don't want to replace them with VOXes. I hope we hear something about apps next week. Otherwise, I'm getting pretty close to pulling the plug on TiVo.


OMG for the umpteenth time, stop using apps on older Minis. Get sticks or use smart TV apps.


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

EWiser said:


> With you can do the home button the reason you double tap the home but is to swipe. Also the home button on tap takes you into the the AppleTV app to watch the next tv show.


Thanks but I'm sorry, I don't understand that at all.


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## EWiser (Oct 2, 2008)

You don’t have an AppleTV ? Those are basic tasks.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

EWiser said:


> You don't have an AppleTV ? Those are basic tasks.


I don't understand what you wrote there either because you just wrote a jumble of words that make no grammatical or logical sense.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

BillyClyde said:


> The Channels DVR app works this way and the quality is very good, including its trick play functions.
> 
> Another reason I would use the apps is because they're transcoded to MP4 so then I can use them with the TiVo I have at my daughter's house remotely.


The Channels DVR works differently from a Tivo and allows streaming without transcoding. The only way to stream without transcoding from a Tivo is to use a Mini.


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

EWiser said:


> You don't have an AppleTV ? Those are basic tasks.


See below. It's not that I wouldn't understand what you would say about an AppleTV, but how you wrote it was just all garbled with no clear grammatical context to even understand what you were trying to get across to me. Sorry. 



mdavej said:


> I don't understand what you wrote there either, not because you just wrote a jumble of words that make no grammatical or logical sense.





shwru980r said:


> The Channels DVR works differently from a Tivo and allows streaming without transcoding. The only way to stream without transcoding from a Tivo is to use a Mini.


I use mine remotely so it does transcode, and as I said I have no issues with trick play and the quality.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

BillyClyde said:


> See below. It's not that I wouldn't understand what you would say about an AppleTV, but how you wrote it was just all garbled with no clear grammatical context to even understand what you were trying to get across to me. Sorry.
> 
> I use mine remotely so it does transcode, and as I said I have no issues with trick play and the quality.


I use channels DVR, what is trick play?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## EWiser (Oct 2, 2008)

BillyClyde said:


> See below. It's not that I wouldn't understand what you would say about an AppleTV, but how you wrote it was just all garbled with no clear grammatical context to even understand what you were trying to get across to me. Sorry.
> 
> I use mine remotely so it does transcode, and as I said I have no issues with trick play and the quality.


Never mind you wouldn't understand.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

tazzmission said:


> I use channels DVR, what is trick play?


Trick play is a term TiVo coined for being able to pause and replay live TV. It's commonly used now to refer to all manipulation controls on a DVR like FF, RW, IR, Pause, etc....


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

EWiser said:


> Never mind you wouldn't understand.


When it's explained like that......exactly!


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## EWiser (Oct 2, 2008)

TiVo's unreleased Roku and Apple TV apps are

Don't look for this to ever happen.


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## tivolocity (Aug 12, 2002)

EWiser said:


> TiVo's unreleased Roku and Apple TV apps are
> 
> Don't look for this to ever happen.


Based on this, it sounds like the future of the rest of the TiVo products are in question.

"If we really believe the streaming market is where it's at, we need to double down on that and not get distracted by a bunch of things that other people want, but aren't really going to move the needle," Malone said.

I guess, we, the existing customer base, are a distraction.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

EWiser said:


> TiVo's unreleased Roku and Apple TV apps are
> 
> Don't look for this to ever happen.


In other words. **** off existing TiVo users how have supported you for years. Let's try to get new cord cutting customers with this new TiVo stream 4K dongle garbage. Oh and since that runs Android "maybe" we can throw a bone to our loyal TiVo DVR customers by adding the promised STB app functionality to only our new set to box. What a load of crap.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## tivolocity (Aug 12, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> OMG for the umpteenth time, stop using apps on older Minis. Get sticks or use smart TV apps.


I have a stick, and it works great. But, there's convenience in not having to change TV sources and remotes. If the old minis don't really support the apps, they shouldn't be there!


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## mntvjunkie (May 13, 2009)

tivolocity said:


> Based on this, it sounds like the future of the rest of the TiVo products are in question.
> 
> "If we really believe the streaming market is where it's at, we need to double down on that and not get distracted by a bunch of things that other people want, but aren't really going to move the needle," Malone said.
> 
> I guess, we, the existing customer base, are a distraction.


The biggest mistake they made in the last few years is not using TE4 to migrate existing DVR Tivos to Android TV. Then, they could have had a DVR that had all this capability, and releasing a streaming stick would have been a replacement to the Mini.

Now, they are stuck with two platforms that aren't compatible, and management seems to think they should just abandon one of them. Guess as a Cable subscriber, Tivo is no longer targeting me.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

mntvjunkie said:


> The biggest mistake they made in the last few years is not using TE4 to migrate existing DVR Tivos to Android TV. Then, they could have had a DVR that had all this capability, and releasing a streaming stick would have been a replacement to the Mini.
> 
> Now, they are stuck with two platforms that aren't compatible, and management seems to think they should just abandon one of them. Guess as a Cable subscriber, Tivo is no longer targeting me.


Could not have said it better myself. Migrating the DVR to Android TV would have been the best thing they could have done. Then the TiVo stream 4K could be your mini replacement. I still feel like they need the TiVo app on Roku, Apple TV and Fire TV too though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

If you've ever used the mobile app to stream, even locally, you know it's not the best experience. Transcoding on the fly like they do creates lag, especially when trying to skip commercials. If they added SkipMode it would help a lot, but so far they haven’t.

The proper way to do this, and the way the Amazon and Tablo DVRs do it, is to transcode while recording. Then the file on the disk is already compatible with streaming devices. Unfortunately the Bolt, and newer, devices only have the ability to transcode 2 streams at a time (Roamio Pro could do 4) so not really an option for a box that can record 4-6 channels at once.

The only way they’re going to make this work properly is to either support high bitrate MPEG-2/Interlaced decoding in the device, like the Mini does but most streaming devices do not, or to create a new DVR that can transcode all the channels at record time. I guess they could create some sort of queue that transcodes after the recording is done, using the 2 transcoders they have available, but that could get messy and confusing for users as only certain recordings would be available to stream at a given time and you couldn’t really do live TV.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> If you've ever used the mobile app to stream, even locally, you know it's not the best experience. Transcoding on the fly like they do creates lag, especially when trying to skip commercials. If they added SkipMode it would help a lot, but so far they haven't.
> 
> The proper way to do this, and the way the Amazon and Tablo DVRs do it, is to transcode while recording. Then the file on the disk is already compatible with streaming devices. Unfortunately the Bolt, and newer, devices only have the ability to transcode 2 streams at a time (Roamio Pro could do 4) so not really an option for a box that can record 4-6 channels at once.
> 
> The only way they're going to make this work properly is to either support high bitrate MPEG-2/Interlaced decoding in the device, like the Mini does, or to create a new DVR that can transcode all the channels at record time. I guess they could create some sort of queue that transcodes after the recording is done, using the 2 transcoders they have available, but that could get messy and confusing for users.


Why do they have to transcode at all? As far as I know the channels dvr app for Apple TV and Fire tv plays the video native. Apple TV, Fire TV, modern Roku's and Android TV streamers all can play MPEG 2 files with no transcoding needed. Am I off base on this?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> If you've ever used the mobile app to stream, even locally, you know it's not the best experience. Transcoding on the fly like they do creates lag, especially when trying to skip commercials. If they added SkipMode it would help a lot, but so far they haven't.
> 
> The proper way to do this, and the way the Amazon and Tablo DVRs do it, is to transcode while recording. Then the file on the disk is already compatible with streaming devices. Unfortunately the Bolt, and newer, devices only have the ability to transcode 2 streams at a time (Roamio Pro could do 4) so not really an option for a box that can record 4-6 channels at once.
> 
> The only way they're going to make this work properly is to either support high bitrate MPEG-2/Interlaced decoding in the device, like the Mini does but most streaming devices do not, or to create a new DVR that can transcode all the channels at record time. I guess they could create some sort of queue that transcodes after the recording is done, using the 2 transcoders they have available, but that could get messy and confusing for users as only certain recordings would be available to stream at a given time and you couldn't really do live TV.


 I didn't realize amazon did this as it was recording. I'd assume that would stretch storage space! Plus I think they only encode at 720p


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

“TiVo has also just been putting more effort into streaming with both the TiVo Stream 4K and the TiVo+ streaming service, leaving the DVR apps farther down the priority list”

Both of which are for now, inferior to piles of existing products...and meanwhile they’re ignoring the only real product they’ve got.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Puppy76 said:


> "TiVo has also just been putting more effort into streaming with both the TiVo Stream 4K and the TiVo+ streaming service, leaving the DVR apps farther down the priority list"
> 
> Both of which are for now, inferior to piles of existing products...and meanwhile they're ignoring the only real product they've got.


Yup, they are just not going to sell a lot of these TiVo stream 4K boxes. From what I've seen of it so far, it's half baked too. Most people have already chosen a STB streamer. I don't see why this device needs to exist.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## mntvjunkie (May 13, 2009)

tazzmission said:


> Could not have said it better myself. Migrating the DVR to Android TV would have been the best thing they could have done. Then the TiVo stream 4K could be your mini replacement. I still feel like they need the TiVo app on Roku, Apple TV and Fire TV too though.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Completely agree. But had they done the work to migrate to Android TV (including CableLabs Certification, if that's what was needed) then they could have done all of these things. This would have also accomplished another thing, and that is keeping people in the Tivo ecosystem as they cut the cord. Instead, they now have a $50 dongle that doesn't even work with their DVR, called Tivo (how many are going to be returned because people don't understand this?). The dongle is going to rely on advertising to make money, much like Roku. And it enters a crowded space of dongles or OTT boxes that can easily be loss leaders for companies like Apple, Google, etc.

If the ads hadn't turned me off in September, it's moves like these that completely turn me away from even considering another Tivo that will take 5-6 years to break even. Any excitement I may have had about the Tivo Stream is also dashed, as they are promising features that they may abandon, much like they did with these apps. And they are already starting to walk back support for Tivo DVR's by saying the Tivo DVR app "might" come to Android due to this streaming stick.

Sorry, Tivo, this is yet another misstep in a series of missteps that keeps you from becoming THE home entertainment platform. As a fan of 20 years, this saddens me to realize, because Tivo could have been great. A platform that brings everything together in one box. A platform that can do cable today, and then streaming tomorrow when I cut the cord.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

tazzmission said:


> Why do they have to transcode at all? As far as I know the channels dvr app for Apple TV and Fire tv plays the video native. Apple TV, Fire TV, modern Roku's and Android TV streamers all can play MPEG 2 files with no transcoding needed. Am I off base on this?


The Channels DVR app could be doing the decoding in software. This is possible on newer devices with beefier hardware. I'm not sure about the particulars of this service, but the VLC app can do this so it's entirely possible but device support could be limited.

Until the patent expired in early 2019 there was a fee associated with decoding MPEG-2, so most devices just disabled it even if the chip they used supported it. Technically now they could enable it for free, but then comes the second issue... interlacing. Most streaming devices don't have deinterlacing hardware. Which means they'd either have to do it in software, if possible, or use a Native Mode type thing where the TV handles it. If you've ever tried Native Mode on TiVo you know that most TVs don't handle the transition well. They flicker and cut out until the signal can resync. Worse yet some cable companies use a different resolution/mode for the commercials they insert then the mai program. So it could do this quite frequently. For maximum compatibility it's best to transcode at recode time.

In fact I think this is why Comcast is converting all their stations to 720p, to support some future streaming device/app. If the channels are already broadcast in a compatible format then there is no need to do anything to make them compatible with streaming devices.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

tazzmission said:


> Yup, they are just not going to sell a lot of these TiVo stream 4K boxes. From what I've seen of it so far, it's half baked too. Most people have already chosen a STB streamer. I don't see why this device needs to exist.


If it had the ability to replace the Mini then I think it would be a big seller. Unfortunately it doesn't, and I'm not sure they'll ever be able to overcome the technical challenges mentioned above to make it work. (at least not well enough to be a real Mini replacement)

But let's be honest DVRs are dying. There is so much available out there to stream that most people don't really need a DVR any more. Heck most don't even need cable other than for internet. We are eventually going to transition to a world where you stream everything and your "cable" subscription and DVR live in the cloud. Why pay hundreds of dollars for a big, noisy, prone to failure DVR when you can just pay a few bucks a month for all your content to just live in the cloud and you can access it anywhere at any time?

I've been saying for years now that TiVo should get into the skinny bundle + cloud DVR business. Unfortunately, after having a personal conversation with a higher up at TiVo, I was told that TiVo didn't have the clout nor the money to make that happen. Partnering with someone like Sling makes sense. If they can build on that and migrate the whole experience to their own UI, while consolidating it with content from other streaming services they could have a winner. But I think it's pretty unlikely that's going to happen given their current position.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

I heard the chip in the recent firetvs can do MPEG2, they just dont enable it. The deinterlacing is done in software, and looks decent (KODI), but a HTPC with a Radeon RX gpu looks soo much better, and upscales nice too!

Hoping the new TiVo stick is better than the Firesticks. Since it will be more expensive, lets hope so.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

tazzmission said:


> Yup, they are just not going to sell a lot of these TiVo stream 4K boxes. From what I've seen of it so far, it's half baked too. Most people have already chosen a STB streamer. I don't see why this device needs to exist.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


As Roku leaves the hardware business that leaves...Google and Amazon dominating, there is room for another device for people who don't want to be in their ecosystem (more than you think). Enjoy your DVR's  the streaming future that's coming you might not like.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

foghorn2 said:


> I heard the chip in the recent firetvs can do MPEG2, they just dont enable it. The deinterlacing is done in software, and looks decent (KODI)


This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Only newer FireTVs have this chip, so the older ones wouldn't work, and the same is probably true for Roku and AppleTV. So you have to pick and choose which devices your app will work on based on their hardware capabilities. Whereas if you just recode everything at the source then it's compatible with everything.

This is why the Amazon Recast and the Tablo both recode during the recording process. So the files on the disk are already in a compatible format. (although it sounds like the recast does some weird stuff to make this work, so it might have less recoding chips then it has tuners)


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## spiderpumpkin (Dec 1, 2017)

tivolocity said:


> Based on this, it sounds like the future of the rest of the TiVo products are in question.
> 
> "If we really believe the streaming market is where it's at, we need to double down on that and not get distracted by a bunch of things that other people want, but aren't really going to move the needle," Malone said.
> 
> I guess, we, the existing customer base, are a distraction.


No wonder TivoTed doesn't post here anymore. The existing users want things that were previewed and now are just a distraction.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

spiderpumpkin said:


> No wonder TivoTed doesn't post here anymore. The existing users want things that were previewed and now are just a distraction.


 but Tivo then stated Malone was not entirely accurate. I think Malone is honest and his bosses are wanting you to think they are doing all these things they never will. Time will tell.


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## stuart628 (Jul 5, 2006)

Great so the android apps and in essence fire stick apps are still coming...ROKU and Apple TV are going to be left out. This would be a great way to make sure people buy the stream 4K.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

I look forward to seeing if the TiVo new Stream is going to "move the needle" as against Roku and Apple TV, and Amazon Fire.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

stuart628 said:


> Great so the android apps and in essence fire stick apps are still coming...ROKU and Apple TV are going to be left out. This would be a great way to make sure people buy the stream 4K.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Who cares, the Rokus and AppleTvs have their own ecosystem, no need to have Tivo on them, You want Tivo, get a Tivo Stick. I extensively tried both, I dont see the appeal of either. The fireticks to me are better and cheaper and hope the Tivo sticks are even better.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

spiderpumpkin said:


> No wonder TivoTed doesn't post here anymore. The existing users want things that were previewed and now are just a distraction.


@TiVo_Ted was last here yesterday afternoon--but hasn't posted since October.

Isn't there a forum rule that for each X days of forum lurking, there has to be Y number of forum posts?


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## stuart628 (Jul 5, 2006)

foghorn2 said:


> Who cares, the Rokus and AppleTvs have their own ecosystem, no need to have Tivo on them, You want Tivo, get a Tivo Stick. I extensively tried both, I dont see the appeal of either. The fireticks to me are better and cheaper and hope the Tivo sticks are even better.


Well ROKU is very popular but yes I agree if you want a TiVo app that bad a hopefully 49 dollar stick is not a bad way to go. I look at that article as not all doom and gloom but a it's still coming.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

foghorn2 said:


> Who cares, the Rokus and AppleTvs have their own ecosystem, no need to have Tivo on them, You want Tivo, get a Tivo Stick. I extensively tried both, I dont see the appeal of either. The fireticks to me are better and cheaper and hope the Tivo sticks are even better.


I bought an Apple TV recently. I don't like it at all. The remote is terrible. I ended up getting frustrated with it and just replacing it with a FireTV Stick that cost 1/3 the price. Not sure what to do with the ATV as it's just outside the return window. I hate to just shelve it as it cost about $200.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> If it had the ability to replace the Mini then I think it would be a big seller. Unfortunately it doesn't, and I'm not sure they'll ever be able to overcome the technical challenges mentioned above to make it work. (at least not well enough to be a real Mini replacement)
> 
> But let's be honest DVRs are dying. There is so much available out there to stream that most people don't really need a DVR any more. Heck most don't even need cable other than for internet. We are eventually going to transition to a world where you stream everything and your "cable" subscription and DVR live in the cloud. Why pay hundreds of dollars for a big, noisy, prone to failure DVR when you can just pay a few bucks a month for all your content to just live in the cloud and you can access it anywhere at any time?
> 
> I've been saying for years now that TiVo should get into the skinny bundle + cloud DVR business. Unfortunately, after having a personal conversation with a higher up at TiVo, I was told that TiVo didn't have the clout nor the money to make that happen. Partnering with someone like Sling makes sense. If they can build on that and migrate the whole experience to their own UI, while consolidating it with content from other streaming services they could have a winner. But I think it's pretty unlikely that's going to happen given their current position.


The ONLY reason I still have TiVo is my wife. She refuses to move to a streaming service like YTTV OR Hulu with Live TV. She won't even use the HD HomeRun Prime(s) I set up with Channels DVR that records all my shows to my Synology NAS and stream over the home WiFi to the Apple TV STB's I have on each of my 4 TV's.

For me, I use channels DVR now and I have been for a few months. I plan to basically make her switch to this or s steaming services. I'd prefer a steaming service too since I now have 3 cables card rental fees on Fios.

Our issue is that not a single steaming service has every channel we watch. Some have a lot of them but not all of them. Until one has every channel we watch she isn't going to switch. I can't even convince her to cut cable because honestly we won't be saving than much each month anyway.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

Dan203 said:


> ...The proper way to do this, and the way the Amazon and Tablo DVRs do it, is to transcode while recording. Then the file on the disk is already compatible with streaming devices...


"The Fire TV *Recast* stores all *recordings* in their raw MPEG-2 *format*. This ensures that the maximum image quality is always available when you go to watch a *recording*. "

How, and why, to pull video recording files off of the Amazon Fire TV Recast DVR


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## mntvjunkie (May 13, 2009)

tenthplanet said:


> As Roku leaves the hardware business that leaves...Google and Amazon dominating, there is room for another device for people who don't want to be in their ecosystem (more than you think). Enjoy your DVR's  the streaming future that's coming you might not like.


I doubt Roku is leaving the hardware business anytime soon. You are also forgetting Apple.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

tenthplanet said:


> As Roku leaves the hardware business that leaves...Google and Amazon dominating, there is room for another device for people who don't want to be in their ecosystem (more than you think). Enjoy your DVR's  the streaming future that's coming you might not like.


Who said Roku is leaving the hardware business? Quite the opposite. They have several new STB's that just came out and Roku TV's are great sellers. I have one myself.

As for steaming is the future. It absolutely is. No doubt. But IMO there isn't a single steaming service available today that gives me everything cable tv and my TiVo dvr does. That will change I'm sure very soon. I'll be moving to a steaming service when I find one that gives me all of what I have now and costs less.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

tazzmission said:


> The ONLY reason I still have TiVo is my wife. She refuses to move to a streaming service like YTTV OR Hulu with Live TV. She won't even use the HD HomeRun Prime(s) I set up with Channels DVR that records all my shows to my Synology NAS and stream over the home WiFi to the Apple TV STB's I have on each of my 4 TV's.
> 
> For me, I use channels DVR now and I have been for a few months. I plan to basically make her switch to this or s steaming services. I'd prefer a steaming service too since I now have 3 cables card rental fees on Fios.
> 
> Our issue is that not a single steaming service has every channel we watch. Some have a lot of them but not all of them. Until one has every channel we watch she isn't going to switch. I can't even convince her to cut cable because honestly we won't be saving than much each month anyway.


I sold my Tivo setup and got YTTV. And wife hasn't used it yet. I showed her once. But it's been at least 45 days. She just watches Netflix now. lol. Doesn't seem to mind. Kids don't use YTTV either. Reality is we're paying for YTTV for me to watch sports. Otherwise they seem to have no problem not having traditional cable channels. Not one request since I got it to remind them how it works again.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> I look forward to seeing if the TiVo new Stream is going to "move the needle" as against Roku and Apple TV, and Amazon Fire.


It won't move the needle.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

tazzmission said:


> As for steaming is the future. It absolutely is. No doubt. But IMO there isn't a single steaming service available today that gives me everything cable tv and my TiVo dvr does. That will change I'm sure very soon. I'll be moving to a steaming service when I find one that gives me all of what I have now and costs less.


Yeah for me it didn't work quite like that. I moved to YTTV, but it's not because it gave me everything cable and Tivo gave me. It was because it turned out to be the better overall option.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

trip1eX said:


> I sold my Tivo setup and got YTTV. And wife hasn't used it yet. I showed her once. But it's been at least 45 days. She just watches Netflix now. lol. Doesn't seem to mind. Kids don't use YTTV either. Reality is we're paying for YTTV for me to watch sports. Otherwise they seem to have no problem not having traditional cable channels. Not one request since I got it to remind them how it works again.


In my house my kids would not care. They don't watch cable tv at all. My wife is the one who does. I watch some cable tv but not a ton. I do need sports though. I have to get her onboard with something else and just move on.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

tazzmission said:


> Why do they have to transcode at all? As far as I know the channels dvr app for Apple TV and Fire tv plays the video native. Apple TV, Fire TV, modern Roku's and Android TV streamers all can play MPEG 2 files with no transcoding needed. Am I off base on this?





Dan203 said:


> The Channels DVR app could be doing the decoding in software. This is possible on newer devices with beefier hardware. I'm not sure about the particulars of this service, but the VLC app can do this so it's entirely possible but device support could be limited.


Most platforms do support MPEG2, but as far as I know Roku does not. The Channels DVR client app for Roku was withdrawn over two years ago because they "don't love the requirement of transcoding locally inside your home". This could be another reason TiVo has put their Roku app on hold, but I'd guess the main reasons that one and Apple TV are on hold are all business.


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## stuart628 (Jul 5, 2006)

Out of all this my dream scenario for TiVo would be this...pipe dream yes but

TiVo buys vue cuts all locals out or has a local less package for ten dollars less and you have to buy a TiVo or have one also a stream 4K....TiVo. Service is now ten dollars a month or 100 yearly. TiVo app on stream can play back stuff from bolts or newer. So you get vue plus dvr locals plus all apps. Profit for TiVo and ourselves. Man what could have been if I only got my way lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Most platforms do support MPEG2, but as far as I know Roku does not. The Channels DVR client app for Roku was withdrawn over two years ago because they "don't love the requirement of transcoding locally inside your home". This could be another reason TiVo has put their Roku app on hold, but I'd guess the main reasons that one and Apple TV are on hold are all business.


Older Roku's don't support mpeg2 but newer Roku's do.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

tazzmission said:


> Older Roku's don't support mpeg2 but newer Roku's do.


Interesting. So maybe the newer models just decode and deinterlace too slow? (That post was updated in April 2019.) Hard to say as there are only three Channels devs, they are very busy developing for other platforms, and one recently posted that the "technical limitations of a platform is just one of the many reasons why" they don't currently support Roku.


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

Mikeguy said:


> I look forward to seeing if the TiVo new Stream is going to "move the needle" as against Roku and Apple TV, and Amazon Fire.


Coffin. Meet Nail.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

tazzmission said:


> Who said Roku is leaving the hardware business? Quite the opposite. They have several new STB's that just came out and Roku TV's are great sellers. I have one myself.
> 
> As for steaming is the future. It absolutely is. No doubt. But IMO there isn't a single steaming service available today that gives me everything cable tv and my TiVo dvr does. That will change I'm sure very soon. I'll be moving to a steaming service when I find one that gives me all of what I have now and costs less.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Roku is licensing their tech, they don't make the TV's, and most of their money is coming from advertising and licensing. They'll make their wi-fi only streaming sticks for awhile but they are getting out of the Ultra class of devices. The big A is knocking at the door (and it's not Apple).


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

I am amazed at the surprise and consternation about what's become of this once good company. It's like some of you are in total denial of an abusive spouse. Look, Mom-Tivo got remarried to an abusing, lazy, junky-Rovi. End of sad story.

I warned this morning not to trust an abuser and how can they still be trusted to deliver after they are caught lying at CES last year?

Where are their apps they announced at last year's CES? Nowhere, with a bull **** excuse this year because the the press keeps asking. They have no coherent consumer electronics plan to be at CES in the first place. 

Rovi has upended TiVo 's consumer electronics status and replaced it with a Rovi milk the customer device. They should have not been allowed to return to CES after lying last year.

Again, believe anything they say at CES is at your own risk of huge dissatisfaction and disappointment. And guess what keeps happening to all you black and blue fools.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

exdishguy said:


> Coffin. Meet Nail.


The future has three paths, Amazon, Android, and Apple choose a path..there are no others.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

tenthplanet said:


> The future has three paths, Amazon, Android, and Apple choose a path..there are no others.


Hah, well put. But there could be another "A" in our future instead: Antitrust.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Hah, well put. But there could be another "A" in our future instead: Antitrust.


Antitrust can be like an exploding boomerang when it come back it not only kills the thrower but anyone else nearby.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

tenthplanet said:


> Antitrust can be like an exploding boomerang when it come back it not only kills the thrower but anyone else nearby.


It kills me any time I try to read those laws. Great solution for insomniacs.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> It kills me any time I try to read those laws. Great solution for insomniacs.


You can't read Eula's all the time (also good for insomniacs).


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

ClearToLand said:


> "The Fire TV *Recast* stores all *recordings* in their raw MPEG-2 *format*. This ensures that the maximum image quality is always available when you go to watch a *recording*. "
> 
> How, and why, to pull video recording files off of the Amazon Fire TV Recast DVR


Like I said the instructions say something about recording 4 things but only being able to watch 2 things at a time, so they could be doing something with on the fly. They definitely are NOT sending the recordings to your FireTV as full MPEG-2 interlaced video.

Also I'm not sure why recoding has such a stigma. I've worked with people in the broadcast industry. The video you ultimately get on your TV, either cable or OTA, has already been transcoded a half dozen times at least. As long as they use a good encoder a box like a Tablo, which does recode everything, is pretty much indistinguishable from the source. (Note I've never actually seen the output of a Tablo, so I can't say for sure it does a good job, but a device like it could)


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## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Most platforms do support MPEG2, but as far as I know Roku does not. The Channels DVR client app for Roku was withdrawn over two years ago because they "don't love the requirement of transcoding locally inside your home". This could be another reason TiVo has put their Roku app on hold, but I'd guess the main reasons that one and Apple TV are on hold are all business.


It's probably got to do with the stupid DRM restrictions the cable companies saddle TiVo with. Along the same lines as to why HD Homerun stopped making their 3-tuner Prime and have all but given up on making a 6-tuner model. Might just be a too much red tape situation to stream MPEG2 to non-TiVo made devices. Each endpoint probably needs to be certified.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

In the last 2 days we've been called "legacy customers" and the stuff we want are distractions. I think Tivo's made clear where we stand, no sugar coating anymore.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> The Channels DVR app could be doing the decoding in software. This is possible on newer devices with beefier hardware. I'm not sure about the particulars of this service, but the VLC app can do this so it's entirely possible but device support could be limited.
> 
> Until the patent expired in early 2019 there was a fee associated with decoding MPEG-2, so most devices just disabled it even if the chip they used supported it. Technically now they could enable it for free, but then comes the second issue... interlacing. Most streaming devices don't have deinterlacing hardware. Which means they'd either have to do it in software, if possible, or use a Native Mode type thing where the TV handles it. If you've ever tried Native Mode on TiVo you know that most TVs don't handle the transition well. They flicker and cut out until the signal can resync. Worse yet some cable companies use a different resolution/mode for the commercials they insert then the mai program. So it could do this quite frequently. For maximum compatibility it's best to transcode at recode time.
> 
> In fact I think this is why Comcast is converting all their stations to 720p, to support some future streaming device/app. If the channels are already broadcast in a compatible format then there is no need to do anything to make them compatible with streaming devices.


Channels DVR server app handles the transcoding much like the Plex server does for each client. Some clients can handle Mpeg2, some cannot. Channels does support hardware transcoding on newer intel chips and some Nvidea graphics cards.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

OrangeCrush said:


> It's probably got to do with the stupid DRM restrictions the cable companies saddle TiVo with. Along the same lines as to why HD Homerun stopped making their 3-tuner Prime and have all but given up on making a 6-tuner model. Might just be a too much red tape situation to stream MPEG2 to non-TiVo made devices. Each endpoint probably needs to be certified.


Based on subsequent discussion and research, Roku apparently supports MPEG2 in recent models, but all models remain underpowered which is one reason Channels still has not restarted work on a Roku app.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> In the last 2 days we've been called "legacy customers" and the stuff we want are distractions. I think Tivo's made clear where we stand, no sugar coating anymore.


Seems that way. Time will tell. I'm still a lifetime sub on my bolt so i'll keep it for now. I'm still playing with Channels DVR on my 2 HDHR primes. I just got a one month free trial for YTTV and right off the bat I feel that there are way too many commercials. That is the one thing I love about TiVo is the commercial skip. Channels DVR also has commercial skip but it's not quite as accurate as TiVo's. I know my wife will hate YTTV. Maybe I'll try Hulu with Live TV again and see how bad commercial are there.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

jcthorne said:


> Channels DVR server app handles the transcoding much like the Plex server does for each client. Some clients can handle Mpeg2, some cannot. Channels does support hardware transcoding on newer intel chips and some Nvidea graphics cards.


From what I've understood from the Channels devs' posts on their own community forum, they prefer MPEG2 compatible clients and prefer not to transcode on the server. Plex supports more clients by transcoding on the server, but at a cost. Based on my experience, on some cilents Plex can be glacially slow.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> In the last 2 days we've been called "legacy customers" and the stuff we want are distractions. I think Tivo's made clear where we stand, no sugar coating anymore.


I'd like to think TiVo_Ted is unhappy with that party line, and tried to throw us a sop by saying a TiVo Mini-style Android app could happen. But PR quickly slapped him down for speaking out of turn. Because that is their message now, aimed not at the "legacy" installed base, but only at the Xperi merger managers.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> From what I've understood from the Channels devs' posts on their own community forum, they prefer MPEG2 compatible clients and prefer not to transcode on the server. Plex supports more clients by transcoding on the server, but at a cost. Based on my experience, on some cilents Plex can be glacially slow.


That makes sense. I have been amazed how snappy and responsive it is on my Shield and Fire TV 4k stick. I have no interest in a Roku at this time.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Plex is certainly way too slow on a Roamio, almost to the point of being unusable. But it works fine once a video is started.


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## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Based on subsequent discussion and research, Roku apparently supports MPEG2 in recent models, but all models remain underpowered which is one reason Channels still has not restarted work on a Roku app.


Well, I was referring more to why TiVo gave up on Apple TV and isn't trying to push MPEG2 to those clients. But I don't really blame anybody for not pursuing MPEG2 on Rokus. Even if it technically plays, their implementation is very poor. If you've got an HD Homerun & Roku laying around, try Silicon Dust's official HD Homerun App to see first hand how bad it is. Maybe it's better on top-of-the-line Roku models, but it runs like a dog on my Roku sticks.



Pokemon_Dad said:


> I'd like to think TiVo_Ted is unhappy with that party line, and tried to throw us a sop by saying a TiVo Mini-style Android app could happen. But PR quickly slapped him down for speaking out of turn. Because that is their message now, aimed not at the "legacy" installed base, but only at the Xperi merger managers.


I'm not going to lie, but I'm really salty about his quotes from CES referring to TiVo retail customers as those "other people" whose wishes for compatibility with existing TiVo hardware were a "distraction." Maybe he didn't mean it that way, but it ain't helping with the appearance that TiVo's taking its long term customers for granted.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> In the last 2 days we've been called "legacy customers" and the stuff we want are distractions. I think Tivo's made clear where we stand, no sugar coating anymore.


At least you weren't called one of the old farts that will die off soon anyway.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

jcthorne said:


> That makes sense. I have been amazed how snappy and responsive it is on my Shield and Fire TV 4k stick. I have no interest in a Roku at this time.


Can the Fire TV Stick 4K natively decode and deinterlace 1080i OTA TV channels in MPEG-2? I know my Apple TV 4K does this very well in the channels app. Apple's hardware handles the MPEG-2 decoding while the deinterlacing is done via software in the Channels app, which offers different options for the deinterlacing method (e.g. blend, linear, etc.).


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

OrangeCrush said:


> Well, I was referring more to why TiVo gave up on Apple TV and isn't trying to push MPEG2 to those clients. But I don't really blame anybody for not pursuing MPEG2 on Rokus. Even if it technically plays, their implementation is very poor. If you've got an HD Homerun & Roku laying around, try Silicon Dust's official HD Homerun App to see first hand how bad it is. Maybe it's better on top-of-the-line Roku models, but it runs like a dog on my Roku sticks.


For the most part, Rokus have never done well with MPEG-2. Channels doesn't even offer an app for that platform.

I do wonder if TiVo won't be able to use their new TiVo Stream 4K as a direct Mini replacement, though, if they want. The hardware in it may be up to the task. From what I can see, it's a bit more powerful than the Fire TV Stick 4K (based on their specs and Geekbench scores). My guess is that you could install the Channels app on the TiVo Stream 4K and watch native MPEG-2 1080i OTA TV channels from an HDHomeRun tuner. If it does turn out that it can do that, then it wouldn't seem to be a big deal for TiVo to allow the Stream 4K to fetch native, non-transcoded live and recorded TV from a TiVo DVR. But the DVR would probably need to be connected to your home network either via ethernet or a strong AC wifi signal. Likewise with the Stream 4K. (I don't know if it has AC or just N wifi but I have learned that it has a USB-C port that could be used with an ethernet adapter.)

The TiVo apps with Mini-like capabilities for Apple TV, Android TV, etc. were only ever going to stream transcoded MPEG-4 video from TiVo DVRs, maxing out at 720p.


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## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

NashGuy said:


> Can the Fire TV Stick 4K natively decode and deinterlace 1080i OTA TV channels in MPEG-2? I know my Apple TV 4K does this very well in the channels app. Apple's hardware handles the MPEG-2 decoding while the deinterlacing is done via software in the Channels app, which offers different options for the deinterlacing method (e.g. blend, linear, etc.).


Yes, Channels supports hardware deinterlacing on the Fire TV Stick 4K. The regular Fire TV Stick doesn't, and it causes a major performance hit which is part of why the Channels devs don't recommend the regular Fire Stick.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

OrangeCrush said:


> Yes, Channels supports hardware deinterlacing on the Fire TV Stick 4K. The regular Fire TV Stick doesn't, and it causes a major performance hit which is part of why the Channels devs don't recommend the regular Fire Stick.


And this is why it takes a startup like Channels to do something like this. Testing and maintaining settings for all the different hardware variations must be a huge PITA. TiVo is a 20+ year old company that was acquired by an even older company. They lost their innovative spirit a long time ago.

If the new hardware doesn't support native MPEG-2 and deinterlacing then I'm afraid we'll never see real TiVo DVR integration. The on the fly recoding that the mobile app does now will never really be a suitable replacement for a Mini.

Perhaps that's on purpose. Perhaps this is the start of a new direction for them. Perhaps they're simply going to overlay their UI, and their distinctive remote, onto the SlingTV cloud DVR and offer it up as a replacement for cable. Only issue I see is that Sling doesn't offer much in the way of locals. (looks like Fox and NBC only in a few major markets) So perhaps TiVo's next step is to offer a Tablo style headless OTA DVR that integrates seamlessly with the SligTV DVR so that you can get the best of both worlds from a single, familiar, user interface. Plus, even though it's not that great, you'll still have OnePass to manage shows on other streaming services. And maybe, as I said before, Google will eventually implement a system wide API that these apps can use, and TiVo can leverage, to make OnePass work more like it was originally intended. (like AppleTV)

I'm sure they have a vision in their head where they want this to go, whether or not we get there is another story. The history of TiVo is littered with failed attempts and partnerships.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

mschnebly said:


> At least you weren't called one of the old farts that will die off soon anyway.


Of course we were--just in different words. And while TiVo is happy to take our monthly/annual/Lifetime subscription fees.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Dan203 said:


> So perhaps TiVo's next step is to offer a Tablo style headless OTA DVR that integrates seamlessly with the SligTV DVR so that you can get the best of both worlds from a single, familiar, user interface.


That could easily happen, perhaps by contracting with the same OEM for an AirTV 2 to go with their OEMed AirTV Mini (which is what the Stream 4K is but with a peanut remote). See https://www.airtv.net/pr...


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> If the new hardware doesn't support native MPEG-2 and deinterlacing then I'm afraid we'll never see real TiVo DVR integration. The on the fly recoding that the mobile app does now will never really be a suitable replacement for a Mini.


But they already had it working (granted not very well) years ago with the Stream and the old Fire TV Tivo beta app (sans MPEG-2). Fast forward to today with their own faster Android hardware, I don't see any huge technical hurdles. Amazon also does transcoding with their Recast. Streaming MPEG-2 is not really a good idea. MPEG-4 is much more efficient.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> And maybe, as I said before, Google will eventually implement a system wide API that these apps can use, and TiVo can leverage, to make OnePass work more like it was originally intended. (like AppleTV)


I think Google does have an Android TV API that ties individual apps and their underlying content to the regular Android TV home screen, which has a (potentially universal) Play Next watchlist plus individual content rows or "channels" for each app where it can pitch whatever it wants to recommend to the viewer. I'm not sure, though, to what degree apps have opted into using this API.

Channels on the home screen | Android Developers


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> That could easily happen, perhaps by contracting with the same OEM for an AirTV 2 to go with their OEMed AirTV Mini (which is what the Stream 4K is but with a peanut remote). See https://www.airtv.net/pr...


Yes I have the AirTv 1 ota tuner (the #2 version is the same thing with A/C wifi, im using it wired and like the first form factor better) . It integrates with the Sling guide perfectly, but it has no automatic buffers and when you ff/rew, there is no preview like their cloud dvr. It looks unfinished. TiVo could certainly help in this deficiency. I always thought TiVo should partner with Dish/Sling instead of being enemies.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mdavej said:


> Streaming MPEG-2 is not really a good idea. MPEG-4 is much more efficient.


Well, assuming you have your network set up to handle it, native MPEG-2 will give you better PQ and it would presumably be simpler for TiVo to implement from a development standpoint (although they've already built transcoding capabilities into most of their recent DVRs).

I have an HDHomeRun OTA tuner that just does straight MPEG-2. I record OTA stuff using MythTV on my iMac. I watch everything using the Channels (for live) and MythTV (for recorded) apps on my Apple TV 4K. Everything is connected to my router via ethernet. Works great.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

mdavej said:


> But they already had it working (granted not very well) years ago with the Stream and the old Fire TV Tivo beta app (sans MPEG-2). Fast forward to today with their own faster Android hardware, I don't see any huge technical hurdles. Amazon also does transcoding with their Recast. Streaming MPEG-2 is not really a good idea. MPEG-4 is much more efficient.


The on the fly transcoding is the issue. No matter how fast the hardware is. Basically you're taking a section of the video that the user is watching, transcoding it on the fly to H.264, then streaming that as a live stream to the streaming device. Fine if you're watching a linear stream with no need to trickplay. Trickplay is where the issue is. They can keep a small buffer of the transcoded stream to support a few clicks of the instant replay button but if the user needs to jump further, forward or backward, you have to reposition the original record, start transcoding again, then streaming to the device. This whole process can take a couple seconds. And if the user is pressing the button multiple times you have to decide when they're done before you make the seek or it's going to take longer because you'll have to start and stop over and over. There is a reason the mobile app only has instant replay and 30 second skip. Real FF/RW with a live display is virtually impossible. Because of the transcoding there would be a huge delay between what you see on the streaming device and where the TiVo thinks it is that it would be impossible to time properly. And rewinding would be exponentially worse as it's already tricky to get a real live rewind on the TiVo itself when it's doing the decoding because of how temporal compression like MPEG-2/H264 works. The on the fly transcoding they use for the mobile apps would not provide a very good user experience for local streaming devices. It would kind of work, like the FireTV app kind of worked, but it wouldn't provide the seamless experience we're use to with the Mini.

The Mini essentially runs the same software as the TiVo itself and just treats the TiVo as a network attached disk. It does all the seeking, decoding, etc... locally so with the exception of the odd network delay it's functionality is indistinguishable from the TiVo itself.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

NashGuy said:


> I think Google does have an Android TV API that ties individual apps and their underlying content to the regular Android TV home screen, which has a (potentially universal) Play Next watchlist plus individual content rows or "channels" for each app where it can pitch whatever it wants to recommend to the viewer. I'm not sure, though, to what degree apps have opted into using this API.
> 
> Channels on the home screen | Android Developers


That's good to know. At least if apps do use it then TiVo will have a way to leverage it to make OnePass work better.

The real question is how much work will TiVo put into this? If they want this to be their next big product, and they're getting a cut from Sling to integrate with their cloud DVR, then it seems like this should be where they focus their development effort.

Dish is dying a slow death too, so I could see them wanting to make Sling the most compelling option possible to keep them alive. If TiVo can help get them more subscribers then why not. They have a history, but neither company is the same as it was when that whole lawsuit happened.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

Dan203 said:


> The on the fly transcoding is the issue. No matter how fast the hardware is. Basically you're taking a section of the video that the user is watching, transcoding it on the fly to H.264, then streaming that as a live stream to the streaming device. Fine if you're watching a linear stream with no need to trickplay. Trickplay is where the issue is.


I was leery of this before I tried the Recast. It handled "trick play" very well... much better than I expected and not far (at all) from TiVo. I noted such in my Migrating to Recast thread... of which I never did.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

tenthplanet said:


> As Roku leaves the hardware business that leaves...Google and Amazon dominating, there is room for another device for people who don't want to be in their ecosystem (more than you think). Enjoy your DVR's  the streaming future that's coming you might not like.


wait, what?!? Roku is leaving the hardware business?!?


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> The on the fly transcoding is the issue. No matter how fast the hardware is. Basically you're taking a section of the video that the user is watching, transcoding it on the fly to H.264, then streaming that as a live stream to the streaming device. Fine if you're watching a linear stream with no need to trickplay. Trickplay is where the issue is. They can keep a small buffer of the transcoded stream to support a few clicks of the instant replay button but if the user needs to jump further, forward or backward, you have to reposition the original record, start transcoding again, then streaming to the device. This whole process can take a couple seconds. And if the user is pressing the button multiple times you have to decide when they're done before you make the seek or it's going to take longer because you'll have to start and stop over and over. There is a reason the mobile app only has instant replay and 30 second skip. Real FF/RW with a live display is virtually impossible. Because of the transcoding there would be a huge delay between what you see on the streaming device and where the TiVo thinks it is that it would be impossible to time properly. And rewinding would be exponentially worse as it's already tricky to get a real live rewind on the TiVo itself when it's doing the decoding because of how temporal compression like MPEG-2/H264 works. The on the fly transcoding they use for the mobile apps would not provide a very good user experience for local streaming devices. It would kind of work, like the FireTV app kind of worked, but it wouldn't provide the seamless experience we're use to with the Mini.
> 
> The Mini essentially runs the same software as the TiVo itself and just treats the TiVo as a network attached disk. It does all the seeking, decoding, etc... locally so with the exception of the odd network delay it's functionality is indistinguishable from the TiVo itself.


That's really interesting! Personally though, I think what the iOS app does is more than good enough to be put on a tv with a tv interface. Yeah, maybe it can't show video while fast forwarding or rewinding, and takes a few seconds to buffer, but imo it's still a great experience.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Puppy76 said:


> wait, what?!? Roku is leaving the hardware business?!?


They're not. People have been misinterpreting an interview with the CEO - or maybe they just read the headline of that article - in which he said most of Roku's profit is from their advertising and content.That doesn't mean they're dropping the platform that serves the ads and content, nor that they're giving up the revenue stream from licensing that platform to TV manufacturers.

Amazon is not getting out of the hardware business any time soon just because their Fire TV and Kindle platforms make most of their money from selling content and advertising, and neither is Roku.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> They're not. People have been misinterpreting an interview with the CEO - or maybe they just read the headline of that article - in which he said most of Roku's profit is from their advertising and content.That doesn't mean they're dropping the platform that serves the ads and content, nor that they're giving up the revenue stream from licensing that platform to TV manufacturers.
> 
> Amazon is not getting out of the hardware business any time soon just because their Fire TV and Kindle platforms make most of their money from selling content and advertising, and neither is Roku.


they sell the hardware to control the platform. Without that they can't sell the advertising and do the partnerships.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

trip1eX said:


> they sell the hardware to control the platform. Without that they can't sell the advertising and do the partnerships.


Right, that's what I'm saying. It's a walled garden.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> They're not. People have been misinterpreting an interview with the CEO - or maybe they just read the headline of that article - in which he said most of Roku's profit is from their advertising and content.That doesn't mean they're dropping the platform that serves the ads and content, nor that they're giving up the revenue stream from licensing that platform to TV manufacturers.
> 
> Amazon is not getting out of the hardware business any time soon just because their Fire TV and Kindle platforms make most of their money from selling content and advertising, and neither is Roku.


Thanks! I thought I'd better know about that, as I need to buy a streaming device, and Roku Ultra is one of the frontrunners.

I've been utterly unable to find out if Roku/FireTV/AppleTV/Shield leave bluetooth or Wifi on in pairing mode 24/7 like at least the older FireTV boxes did, which is horrifically insecure.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Puppy76 said:


> I've been utterly unable to find out if Roku/FireTV/AppleTV/Shield leave bluetooth or Wifi on in pairing mode 24/7 like at least the older FireTV boxes did, which is horrifically insecure.


I don't understand your question, but I have a Roku Ultra (4660). Here's some info that might help:
Roku - Wikipedia


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

JoeKustra said:


> I don't understand your question, but I have a Roku Ultra (4660). Here's some info that might help:
> Roku - Wikipedia


earlier firetv models leave pairing mode on 24/7 for Bluetooth and WiFi...possibly the current models do as well. That's stupendously stupid and insecure. It should actually be criminal.

From what I've been able to glean, that's thankfully not the case with Roku, but I'm not certain, and not at all sure for the current FireTV models. (nor even AppleTV)

The Xbox One by contrast does things right, with physical pairing buttons on controllers and the system, which toggle pairing mode on for just seconds...versus Amazon just leaving it on forever ‍♀‍♀‍♀

sounds like Roku gets around not having hardware buttons by simply activating pairing mode for 30 seconds after the OS boots. Not ideal, but more or less solves the problem (if it does...if they are in fact turning it off after those 30 seconds...would like to know before dropping 40, 85, 120, 180 on one of these boxes *sigh*)


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

Puppy76 said:


> earlier firetv models leave pairing mode on 24/7 for Bluetooth and WiFi...possibly the current models do as well.


I have to go into the menu (Fire TV 4K) every time I turn on the headphones to "*Press SELECT to connect/disconnect*" my Bluetooth headphones even though they are paired.

Now if its paired it will auto connect (if turned on) upon powering up. If it's not paired or not turned on it won't connect. Any other time it's totally manual...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Charles R said:


> I have to go into the menu (Fire TV 4K) every time I turn on the headphones to "*Press SELECT to connect/disconnect*" my Bluetooth headphones even though they are paired.
> 
> Now if its paired it will auto connect (if turned on) upon powering up. If it's not paired it won't connect. Any other time it's totally manual...


Push the talk button and say "connect to speaker".


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

Dan203 said:


> Push the talk button and say "connect to speaker".


_Sorry... I can't connect or control Bluetooth on your Fire TV..._


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Charles R said:


> _Sorry... I can't connect or control Bluetooth on your Fire TV..."_


Hmmm... just taking a stab. It works with my dots and the BT stuff they're connected to so I "assumed" it would would on the FireTV as well.

To be honest I didn't know you could even connect BT headphones to a FireTV. I thought BT was only for remotes and game controllers.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

Dan203 said:


> To be honest I didn't know you could even connect BT headphones to a FireTV.


It was one of the main reasons I liked using the Recast... late night viewing without volume worries.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Charles R said:


> It was one of the main reasons I liked using the Recast... late night viewing without volume worries.


I have a little dongle I connect to my TV via a headphone jack that I use for BT headphones. Was like $20. But I'm not always watching FireTV. Sometimes I'm watching TiVo so having that setup allows me to hear whatever is playing on the TV.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Dan203 said:


> I have a little dongle I connect to my TV via a headphone jack that I use for BT headphones. Was like $20. But I'm not always watching FireTV. Sometimes I'm watching TiVo so having that setup allows me to hear whatever is playing on the TV.


Many, if not most, smart TVs these days support a BT connection. For years I selected a receiver that had a headphone jack in order to support wireless headphones so I could watch TV late night without disturbing my number one. But now I just pair up a set of noise-cancelling headphones directly to the TV instead.


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