# Tivo problems: Case in point



## rantrod (Jul 16, 2006)

Great example of how bad Tivo's QA process is. They should not put something faulty in the market.

I was trying to use TivoToGo, here are the steps:

1) Download and install program

2) Run Tivo Desktop

3) Doesn't work - doesn't find the dvr

4) Rummage through help guides, online FAQs, and forums. Since people write the forums there's no consistency with subject names (looking for "rantrod, here's the solution to your problem" doesn't work). Concequently I have to spend a lot of time reading through a bunch of stuff, trying things out, and see if I find the magic combination of elements to make the thing work. In one forum, someone said that wireless PCs are not supported. In this forum, someone said it should work.

5) Found the "problem". Very esoteric. Had to set something on the Tivo to make it work, and had to set something in my online account. That is ridiculous. Let's get back to the buying-a-toaster analogy. I just bought a toaster, I plug it in, I press down the 'toast' lever and nothing happens - call customer support - "sorry sir, you have to send a letter to our company headquarters in singapore to activate the heat feature of your toaster, it will take no more than 2 weeks". There would be an uproar - the company who made it would go out of business. The only reason Tivo gets away with it is because the competition is even more incompetent than they are.

6) Ok, now it finds my dvr. Let's pick some programs. Hit "Pick Recordings to Transfer". Get error: "Couldn't find folder" or something like that. Now what? Rummage through more help, forums, and FAQs. Someone tells me to try it wired.

7) Ok, now I have to move my computer next to my router so I can connect it directly. Unhook my entire computer setup, move it all to the floor next to the router (monitor, keyboard, etc), hook everything up, and try it again. Nothing. Even though I had the wired IP set in the Tivo Desktop, I imagined (through my own inspiration since FAQs, Helps, and forums didn't shed any light on this) that my wireless was still interfering. Disabled wireless connections. Ok that works. Programs show up. Very impractical. Can't have my computer on the floor like that. Forget it.

8) Someone said wireless should work. So (while still having the computer on the floor next to the wireless router) I take out the wire, I enable wireless connection, I disabled the wired connection, and I try again. Nothing. Restart the Tivo server. Ok that worked. Now I can see the programs wirelessly.

9) Move computer back to where it belongs. Hook everything up. Turn it on. Try it again. Nothing. Back to not working.

10) Move everything back to the floor next to the router. Repeat the previous steps to make it work again, except this time it's not so easy. A few extra "stop server", "pause server", rebootings, enabling and disabling connections and after a few iterations, it magically starts working again. The problem is that I know now I can't move the computer.

11) Hook super long extension cords that go from my computer desk to the floor next to the router. Repeat all steps to get it to work again. Now lift computer and move it to the computer desk without turning it off. Good now it works.

12) Set up some transfers. Start working on my computer on other stuff. Spontaneously, TivoToGo stops working again. What happened this time? Well, inadvertedly, when I moved the computer back to the computer desk, I loosened the wireless adapter. Not only that, but the programs I was using for my work got closed! I lost a lot of work! Stupid Tivo. Upon closer inspection, my desktop icons also got moved around. Why?!!! Makes no sense whatsoever. What level of incompetence must the engineers, programmers, and QA department at Tivo must have for that to happen!

13) Move the computer back to the floor next to the router. Repeat all steps to make it work again. Move it back to the computer desk, be sure not to get anything loosened.

Everything about Tivo seems to suggest that the folks at Tivo expect customers to dedicate their entire lives to it. Spend their free time looking through FAQs, Troubleshooting guides, Forums, Customer Service, etc, like we have nothing better to do. Tivo should not be a way of life, it should be a home appliance.


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

Since all you seem to be doing is complaining about TiVo, I'm curious if you want some actual help or just want to feel better by posting all these rants (given your screen name I have a clue). If you want some actual help, let me know. Otherwise I'll just ignore you.


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## rantrod (Jul 16, 2006)

pkscout said:


> Since all you seem to be doing is complaining about TiVo, I'm curious if you want some actual help or just want to feel better by posting all these rants (given your screen name I have a clue). If you want some actual help, let me know. Otherwise I'll just ignore you.


No, no help, thank you. Just putting that out there. 

Added: There's no specific help needed since I got it working. I hope that someone might see something I didn't see as I was going through the process.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

rantrod said:


> No, no help, thank you. Just putting that out there.


yah, carrying the rant into multiple threads.

Do not feed the troll


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## Francesco (Oct 4, 1999)

Hmmm. Worked for me out of the box.

Kudos to TiVo for getting it right.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

rantrod said:


> No, no help, thank you. Just putting that out there.


don't worry, a moderator should be along shortly to help explain forum rules and etiquette


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## rantrod (Jul 16, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> yah, carrying the rant into multiple threads.
> 
> Do not feed the troll


Well, first of all, I'm not a troll. Second of all, it's a new issue - a software issue. After all I've gone through, I try to make TivoToGo work, and it's just as difficult as everything else was.

Francesco, did TivoToGo, really work on your first try?

I dunno, maybe I got a couple of faulty machines, or maybe a faulty model. I got the "40-hour HUMAX DVD Recorder with TiVo". I thought it would be cool to burn the shows directly onto DVD. That way I don't need to keep a cluttered HDD in the tivo. Maybe it was a wrong choice. If TivoToGo worked correctly, I can burn the shows onto dvd from my PC.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

rantrod said:


> Well, first of all, I'm not a troll.


Sorry, but when you post [email protected] like the below example in a thread where someone is actually asking for specific advice - you are hindering the community - which in my book is a troll

from http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4201517&&#post4201517


rantrod said:


> Actually that step is easy. Just go to "Tivo->Settings->Audio->Physical Device->Identify Product->North America->Pledge alligeance to the Tivo Overloard" and enter your Tivo AIN (audio identification number).
> 
> To get the AIN, mail a SASE to the government of zimbabway, and make sure to include the serial number on the Tivo box, Your Tivo account number, Your MAA, Your mother's maiden name, The town you grew up in, 2 pints of your blood, a lock of hair of your first child's hair, and an article in any nation-wide publication that talks about how great tivo is.
> 
> ...


so I post this as a way for others to not feed the troll


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## rantrod (Jul 16, 2006)

OH NO!!!

After my first post, I left the computer trasfering one of my programs. It was about 5 minutes into it the last time I looked.

I went back to it just now and it says it was at 58 minutes into it and then it stopped working again!!! As in, when I click on "Pick Recordings to Transfer", it says there are no tivos in the network. The weird thing is that my program is still transfering. Somehow it can transfer from my tivo and yet not be able to find it in the network at the same time.

Ok, can someone explain why that happens?

If the wireless connection goes weak, even for an instant, does that kill the application, and make me repeat all the above steps again?


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## rantrod (Jul 16, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Sorry, but when you post [email protected] like the below example...


Sorry about that. It was kind of funny at the time. The original poster had already received 2 correct responses. I wouldn't have done it otherwise.

Any ideas about my last post?


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## Fuzzy1 (Jul 13, 2006)

I actually like his posts... I like to learn from others problems. I hope my install goes more smoothly.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

rantrod said:


> Well, first of all, I'm not a troll. Second of all, it's a new issue - a software issue. After all I've gone through, I try to make TivoToGo work, and it's just as difficult as everything else was.
> 
> Francesco, did TivoToGo, really work on your first try?
> 
> I dunno, maybe I got a couple of faulty machines, or maybe a faulty model. I got the "40-hour HUMAX DVD Recorder with TiVo". I thought it would be cool to burn the shows directly onto DVD. That way I don't need to keep a cluttered HDD in the tivo. Maybe it was a wrong choice. If TivoToGo worked correctly, I can burn the shows onto dvd from my PC.


In one way, at least, your purchase definitely was the wrong choice. If you'd have bought that recorder brand new from *another source* you could have gotten it with Lifetime service for slightly over $500.

I can't knowledgeably reply about the specific problems you're having.

Awhile ago I owned a Pioneer DVR-810H DVD Recorder which has somewhat similiar functions as the Humax. The biggest problem I had with it was getting it to connect via Broadband because of a firewall issue. I needed the correct port numbers to open on my router. Pioneer provided CS support for the recorder and they were totally useless.

TiVo's CS isn't supposed to be used for other mfr.'s products, but I called them anyway. They weren't immediately helpful, but amazingly, after a month or two, I got an email from one of TiVo's tech staff giving me the numbers. By that time I'd already located the info, but still I was impressed. (At that time *this info* wasn't available.)


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## rantrod (Jul 16, 2006)

Maybe I shoud've done more research, but it's kind of a TiVo issue. Like, if I want a VCR, I don't think to look at forums, FAQs, Guides, etc. I just think, "it's about time I got a VCR, let me go to the store and buy one". As it turns out TiVo requires a lot more effort than that, and I let myself be guided by the hype (and a bad TiVo salesperson).


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

I would like to add to this discussion by saying that several people I know have had trouble getting TiVo2Go working and also experienced odd issues with the service stopping or dropping out. In my own home I have 5 PC's with TiVo Desktop running and while they are all working flawlessly now, some of the installs were less than trouble free.

Some issues I've heard about.

1. TiVo desktop stops working after world of warcraft has been played. Must reboot PC and TiVo to enable it again.

2. TiVo desktop reports no tivo's on the network even though TiVo's report PC's in the Now Playing list.

3. Mysterious crashes when trying to playback a show using goback. Program stops transferring after 5 minutes or so.

4. Miscellaneous codec issues which TiVo has decided to fix with the Desktop plus option. Yay!

As for the TiVo2Go initial configuration... The documentation could be better, but then again I likely wouldn't read it anyway. What's the motto...

"If all else fails, read the directions."​


Most programs do everything for you and explain everything during the install. For those programs that don't they seem hard to use and install and even though a thorough look of the install procedures usually fixes it right up many ppl don't want to go to that hassel.

As for wireless issues, if your signal is good, wireless should be no different than wired. Check your wireless signal, you should have excellent or very good connectivity. If not you might want to see about high gain antennas, a repeater, or moving your router. If your TiVo is also wireless you can put your USB adapter on a longer cable to give it some elevation. I had mine on a 16' usb cable for over a year when I was using an oak entertainment center just to get the wireless adapter above on top of the unit. Signal went from 55% to 85% and made a considerable difference.

You might also want to search for the "Ultimate Wireless Networking" thread or PM Ashu who is the sites self proclaimed expert. Good luck.


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## arc6th (Jun 26, 2002)

I had to enter a code when I set up my toaster to prevent piracy. The entities which own copyrights to toast patterns defend them quite heartily. If the image of Mother Teresa is burnt into a bunch of bread out there the original will be devalued.


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## aztivo (Feb 23, 2005)

rantrod said:


> Maybe I shoud've done more research, but it's kind of a TiVo issue. Like, if I want a VCR, I don't think to look at forums, FAQs, Guides, etc. I just think, "it's about time I got a VCR, let me go to the store and buy one". As it turns out TiVo requires a lot more effort than that, and I let myself be guided by the hype (and a bad TiVo salesperson).


 It sounds ike you are having a firewall problem... you cant transfer shows wirelessly from a vcr so apples and oranges


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## rantrod (Jul 16, 2006)

aztivo said:


> It sounds ike you are having a firewall problem... you cant transfer shows wirelessly from a vcr so apples and oranges


I tried killing my anti-virus, turning all firewalling off, and no luck. I have to disable wireless, enable wired, connect my computer again through a wire, launch Tivo desktop, select "Pick programs...", stop the tivo desktop server, unconnect it from the wire, disable wire connection, enable wireless, restart the tivo desktop server. And then it will work for another 10 mins.

What's still weird to me is that in the middle of transfering from my dvr it complaints there are no dvrs in the network. How is it transfering it then? The transfer continues to completion and plays fine. I just can't pick another program or do anything else once the download finishes.

After it goes bad, if I go to the Server Properties, and the "Access" tab, the dvr shows up, but under "address" it says: "unavailable".


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

rantrod said:


> Everything about Tivo seems to suggest that the folks at Tivo expect customers to dedicate their entire lives to it. Spend their free time looking through FAQs, Troubleshooting guides, Forums, Customer Service, etc, like we have nothing better to do. Tivo should not be a way of life, it should be a home appliance.


My two Tivo's plugged right in and work great. 
Got them, read the instructions, plugged them in. No problem.

I downloaded TiVo to Go, read the instructions, installed it, checked my TCO settings and it works fine.

It worked fine out of the box for my non-tech brother too.
(Although, to be fair, he did call me asking about his WEP key)

BTW, I don't know of any other home appliance that runs Linux, do you?


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## rantrod (Jul 16, 2006)

JYoung said:


> My two Tivo's plugged right in and work great.
> Got them, read the instructions, plugged them in. No problem.
> 
> I downloaded TiVo to Go, read the instructions, installed it, checked my TCO settings and it works fine.
> ...


TiVo runs Linux? That explains everything! They should switch to Windows CE. It will crash more, but at least it will work out of the box.


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## Larry in TN (Jun 21, 2002)

It sounds to me like you're having wifi issues. Even with a strong indicated signal you may be losing packets. When you lose too many packets in a short period of time the transfer fails.

Try setting your wireless access point to a different channel.

If you draw a straight line from your access point's antenna to your computer's antenna how many walls/floors/ceilings does it pass through?

Do you have a 2.4 Ghz phone in the house?

Was a microwave in use when the failures occurred?


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## rantrod (Jul 16, 2006)

Larry in TN said:


> It sounds to me like you're having wifi issues. Even with a strong indicated signal you may be losing packets. When you lose too many packets in a short period of time the transfer fails.
> 
> Try setting your wireless access point to a different channel.
> 
> ...


No microwave in use, no Phone.

I am far enough from the wirelss router (enough walls in-between), that I am almost certainly losing packets. The signal is at about 50%. Doesn't the software compensate for losing packets? Why would re-connecting be such a problem? How does it continue to download to completion? Any easier way to reconnect?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

You might want to try and use Galleon instead. I haven't used TiVo Desktop for ages (it gave me problems when using the "view pictures" function).

Not sure it will fix things, but it's a better application overall, IMO.

http://galleon.tv/

/Mike


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## rantrod (Jul 16, 2006)

MickeS said:


> You might want to try and use Galleon instead. I haven't used TiVo Desktop for ages (it gave me problems when using the "view pictures" function).
> 
> Not sure it will fix things, but it's a better application overall, IMO.
> 
> ...


Ok, I'm trying it (although it's a Java application so it's probably slow), I'll write back with my findings.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

rantrod said:


> TiVo runs Linux? That explains everything! They should switch to Windows CE. It will crash more, but at least it will work out of the box.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

Wait a minute-- I thought you couldn't get any recordings set up. How do you have any shows to transfer?


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

rantrod said:


> although it's a Java application so it's probably slow


JYoung, I see your  and raise you


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

JYoung said:


> My two Tivo's plugged right in and work great.
> Got them, read the instructions, plugged them in. No problem.


I have a tech support 8 ball that many funny responses for ppl with tech issues. One if them is "It works on my PC." The reason that's funny is because of so many different PC environments it's impossible to say what works on one machine or network should work on another. So, merely stating you have your's working doesn't really help anyone.

Of course any number of things might be preventing the software from working. Are you using DHCP on your router? Or are the IP's assigned manually with a host table? If using DHCP how many devices can it give IP's? If you are at the max you may have to increase the number of allowed devices or give the TiVo a static IP outside the range your DHCP server gives. It's been my experience that giving the TiVo's static IP's is best anyway. I use 192.168.1.9-10 for my two boxes. The DHCP server starts at .100 so no conflicts.

Also, now that you've enabled transfers on the TiVo's, uninstall the software and reinstall after a reboot and see if it works better. It's possible that when it didn't find them during the first install some thing happened. (It's only a guess though as I'm not a TiVo developer)

At any rate another funny saying on the ball is "It's not a bug, it's a feature." I can see this being directly related to the TiVo DRM. 

edit: Also, instead of all that plugging and unplugging try this. Click start-run and type cmd then click ok. At the prompt type ipconfig /release and hit enter. Next type ipconfig /renew. Once you see the ip address of the pc appear close the window and try the tivo software again.


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## rantrod (Jul 16, 2006)

MickeS said:


> You might want to try and use Galleon instead. I haven't used TiVo Desktop for ages (it gave me problems when using the "view pictures" function).
> 
> Not sure it will fix things, but it's a better application overall, IMO.
> 
> ...


OH MY GOD, THAT JUST WORKED!!!

No problems, no hassles, it just worked right off the bat! lol

Super easy interface, no contrived menus or weirdness. It did ask me to go into the control panel at one point to restart a service, which is in bad form, but not hard at all. No progress bar of % on downloads, but they work!

It is funny that a project made by the kids using java at sourceforge of all places works 1000 times better than the software made by the company that designed and built the systems, lol.

It's mind boggling for me that it worked so well.

Thanks to everyone that tried to help. I'm uninstalling TivoToGo, and figuring out if the Galleon ppl want me to send them some $$


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Stormspace said:


> I have a tech support 8 ball that many funny responses for ppl with tech issues. One if them is "It works on my PC." The reason that's funny is because of so many different PC environments it's impossible to say what works on one machine or network should work on another. So, merely stating you have your's working doesn't really help anyone.


Have you read the OP's history?

Up until a few minutes ago, it seemed like he was more interested in complaining then getting help.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

rantrod said:


> It is funny that a project made by the kids using java at sourceforge of all places works 1000 times better than the software made by the company that designed and built the systems. TiVoToGo programmers must be experiment monkeys too stupid for scientific research. Tivo sees them as cheap labor, lol!


 :down:

Anything to give you an opportunity to bash TiVo...

I knew that's where you'd go with it, and have been waiting here with my response... you were ready to bash it at first, before you even tried it, until you realized that Galleon wasn't made by TiVo, and how you could then use it to further bash TiVo, then you were all for it... how interesting, but all too predictable...

People, he's just a troll... anything and everything TiVo is going to be a problem to him...

He has already stated in both of his threads that he's not looking for any help...

He's just trying to provoke this forum into TiVo bashing...

A bunch of us already went through this with him in another thread... he wasn't getting the provoking that he wanted there, plus his original story was falling apart, so he just created another thread...

Either that, or he's just the most incompetent person when it comes to electronics...

But I say troll... or maybe a little of both... 

We still don't even know what model TiVo he has, which he claims came from tivo.com (and it took him a few hours to come up with that answer after being asked, after he claimed he spent $450, so then he realized the only TiVo he could have spent that much on would have to have been the tivo package with 3-year prepay at $469, so that became his TiVo, but still couldn't give us the model number and I guess he decided to round down about $20) and that it didn't have the OS to support network guided setup, which it should have if it came from tivo.com... we don't know his network set up... or what network adapter he's using... he doesn't think those are important details... 

Ranting Rod, we still don't believe you... and the more you talk, the more you convince me I'm right...

We suggested he return it... oh, but it's beyond the 30 Day Money Back Guarantee because he already had to exchange it once... we try to offer help... oh, but he doesn't need any help now, he says, because he got everything working, but he's still not happy with it... we suggest he sell it... oh, but he doesn't want to take a loss on it...

I will give you $1 more than what you paid, so that you won't have to lose any money out of it... I'll just need to see the receipt, of course, for proof of what you paid... not that I don't trust you or anything... 

I have five TiVo's, two are wired and three are wireless... All were extremely easy for me to set up, getting each one done in less than an hour, which included upgrading each of the hard drives...

I have TiVo Desktop and Galleon running on two different PC's, one of the PC's is wired, the other is wireless, and I have no problems transferring to/from either of them with either TiVo Desktop or Galleon... each has their strengths, so I end up using both... but I do most all of my transfers with TiVo Desktop...

Thus, I have no doubt that I can get your TiVo to work as well, and with great ease... assuming you even really have one...

With as many problems as you claim to be having, at some point you have to stop looking at the vehicle as being the problem and start looking at the driver...


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## rantrod (Jul 16, 2006)

mchips said:


> :down:
> 
> Anything to give you an opportunity to bash TiVo...


Dude, You take it so personally.

I did post what TiVo I got in this very thread. Maybe you didn't have problems with your TiVo, but then again you sound like a tech geek (no offense intended).

I had nothing but problems, you can respect that, or not, but don't make it personal and don't pick fights.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

rantrod said:


> Dude, does your mom work for Tivo or something? You take it so personally.
> 
> I did post what TiVo I got in this very thread. Maybe you didn't have problems with your TiVo, but then again you sound like a tech geek, and your mom works for TiVo.
> 
> I had nothing but problems, you can respect that, or not, but don't make it personal and don't pick fights.


 

I'm not taking it personally at all... I just call it where I see them...

And, no, I don't know anyone personally that works for TiVo... you sound more like a tech geek than I... I've never even held a soldering iron in my hand, and you have... you have made yourself sound techy, everywhere but TiVo...

If you really have had the problems that you're claiming, I would respect it, but I don't believe you are...

I do, however, think maybe someone at TiVo pissed you off about something, and now you have a vendetta against them...


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

rantrod said:


> It is funny that a project made by the kids using java at sourceforge of all places


Just for the record,
It was mainly done by one highly competent designer/developer who utilized some outstanding best practices for design that cuts across any specific implementation on any specific platform.


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## rantrod (Jul 16, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Just for the record,
> It was mainly done by one highly competent designer/developer who utilized some outstanding best practices for design that cuts across any specific implementation on any specific platform.


Whoever it was did a fantastic job! :up: I'm sending them $$$ I think TiVo should just incorporate Galleon into their site and abandon TiVoToGo.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

rantrod said:


> Whoever it was did a fantastic job! :up: I'm sending them $$$ I think TiVo should just incorporate Galleon into their site and abandon TiVoToGo.


perhaps you should research a little better into things before you bash them  


rantrod said:


> It is funny that a project made by the kids using java at sourceforge of all places


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## rantrod (Jul 16, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> perhaps you should research a little better into things before you bash them


It wasn't meant as a bashing! It was a complement and a contrast - people professionally hired by Tivo vs. an arbitrary group of people or person doing it in their spare time. Normally, people with time in their hands, with nothing better to do than to improve on commercial products are youger guys. Sometime collegue kids trying to prove themselves. That's all. Perhaps it was a hasty assumption, I don't know anything about them, other than soon they'll be a bit richer


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

mchips said:


> :down:
> 
> Anything to give you an opportunity to bash TiVo...
> 
> ...


Actually in post #7 he said he had the "40-hour HUMAX® DVD Recorder with TiVo". That recorder with a one year sub. costs $404. on TiVo's website. Add an ethernet adapter and $450. is close enough for gummint work!

This is a public Forum. Rantrod doesn't use foul language and doesn't abuse the Forum. His "rants" are civilized and although you may not agree with him he brings up some valid points and discusses them rationally. Calling a poster a troll doesn't really accomplish much other than expressing personal hostility.


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## jmoak (Jun 20, 2000)

All right now....

If you keep feeding 'em, you better get use to 'em.

And watch your step, they'll ruin a pair of shoes quick.

...not to mention the trail.


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## Leon WIlkinson (Feb 13, 2000)

When I had dishnetwork I think one of the guys on Charlie Chat was named Rod, VP of operation or maybe Product Development.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

TiVo Troll said:


> Actually in post #7 he said he had the "40-hour HUMAX® DVD Recorder with TiVo". That recorder with a one year sub. costs $404. on TiVo's website. Add an ethernet adapter and $450. is close enough for gummint work!
> 
> This is a public Forum. Rantrod doesn't use foul language and doesn't abuse the Forum. His "rants" are civilized and although you may not agree with him he brings up some valid points and discusses them rationally. Calling a poster a troll doesn't really accomplish much other than expressing personal hostility.


 He's obviously reading the forums and bringing up points he has seen other people posting about... he just seems to be having everyone else's problems combined...

In the other thread, he couldn't answer that question of what TiVo he had... his response was that it's not important, because everything is working now and he doesn't need any help...

Even when someone pointed out the 3-year prepay, and why he would have gone with that without researching how to set up a TiVo, he couldn't respond to that, or even deny it...

But I guess a little more research on his part and he found one that he could use that has a 1-year prepay...

People can easily be sucked into complaining, as seen throughout this forum, so, yes, identifying trolls when they're trolling about, helps to reduce the trolls, and to keep the forums discussing real issues, and to be able to discern real issues from personal vendettas, or the competition planting their own trolls to stir up dissension among the community...

He doesn't use foul language because he knows that'll be the quickest way to not get himself heard... so I don't credit him for that, as it's in his best interest not to...

<edit>
I decided to go back to see who brought up the 3-year prepay plan, and it turns out that it was you (he didn't have an answer for you then, but I guess he was able to come up with one later, in this new thread, at least as to which TiVo he bought):


TiVo Troll said:


> So you bought the TiVo w/ service plan from TiVo's *website*? None of the plans comes to exactly $450. but the highest priced one for 3 years with a single tuner Series 2 comes closest.
> 
> Specifics aren't "besides the point"; they're essential. Why then did you post so specifically about the points of your dissatisfaction, and why, if you weren't familiar with TiVo, did you pick a plan priced so much higher than the minimum priced plan? You don't appear to have used the best judgement before spending a fair amount of $$$ for something you weren't familiar with.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

rantrod said:


> It wasn't meant as a bashing! It was a complement and a contrast - people professionally hired by Tivo vs. an arbitrary group of people or person doing it in their spare time. Normally, people with time in their hands, with nothing better to do than to improve on commercial products are youger guys. Sometime collegue kids trying to prove themselves. That's all. Perhaps it was a hasty assumption, I don't know anything about them, other than soon they'll be a bit richer


Galleon was developed almost entirely by a sole developer, but with an open source software development kit provided by TiVo, also using published network protocols provided by TiVo to facilitate the TiVoToGo functionality. Without TiVo providing these, along with technical support to HME developers, Galleon and other HME apps wouldn't be possible.

TiVo has also featured Galleon on its website, in the TiVo Developer Challenge:
http://www.tivo.com/4.3.hmewinners.asp


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

mchips said:


> He's obviously reading the forums and bringing up points he has seen other people posting about... he just seems to be having everyone else's problems combined...
> 
> In the other thread, he couldn't answer that question of what TiVo he had... his response was that it's not important, because everything is working and he doesn't need any help...
> 
> ...


I questioned rantrod about which TiVo he had before he disclosed it. Before he posted that he had the Humax I assumed in error that he had a 3 year sub. on a TiVo branded non-DVD recorder.

IMHO, a "trolling" poster often causes fewer problems than some posts from posters who don't like trolls. Most readers can size up where a poster is coming from without instructions.

I don't toe a "party line" on a number of issues, most notably that there is a "right" way to use TiVo, and am critical of posts which assume that a given way of using TiVo is right for everybody. I chose my nic for precisely that reason.

TiVo is by far the most recognized DVR product available even though it doesn't garner 50% of the DVR market and probably never will. Because it's the most specialized DVR and the one which accomplishes that particular specialty most effectively TiVo is (relatively) expensive and will likely remain a niche product.

TiVo's challenge is to achieve profitability despite being painstakingly excellent at what it does. A concurrent challenge to posters on these Forums is to deal with critical posts in ways which don't devolve into exchanges of personal negativity.

When rantrod brings up valid specific points they should be dealt with factually. When he fuzzes off into vague negativity he should be called on it.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

TiVo Troll said:


> Calling a poster a troll doesn't really accomplish much other than expressing personal hostility.


...unless it's made in reference to you .


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## Y-ASK (Aug 17, 2001)

rantrod said:


> Upon closer inspection, my desktop icons also got moved around.


OH MY GOD!, YOUR DESKTOP ICONS GOT MOVED AROUND?!!! How will you ever get anything to work now? .

Y-ASK


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

A classic case of E.B.U.E I'm pretty sure.

-smak-


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## Y-ASK (Aug 17, 2001)

smak said:


> A classic case of E.B.U.E I'm pretty sure.
> 
> -smak-


Ok, now you're making feel like a dumba$$. What does E.B.U.E. stand for?

Y-ASK


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

TiVo Troll said:


> IMHO, a "trolling" poster often causes fewer problems than some posts from posters who don't like trolls. Most readers can size up where a poster is coming from without instructions.


the poster does do the service of collecting all the real issues into one place, on that I do agree, and *some * good discussion of them has occurred

there are two problems though
1. if posters get into a point by point p***ing contest with the OP then it turns into noise real quick. It seems to me like his posts are designed for that very thing.

2. The OP is finding all things negative about TiVo and *AMPLIFYING them most deliberately and flagrantly *. this also creates noise

When you think that one purpose of the forum is to let someone curious about TiVo come here and find information on the product.........
this still leaves me highly suspicious of rantrod's true motives in posting here.


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## shady (May 31, 2002)

rantrod said:


> I dunno, maybe I got a couple of faulty machines, or maybe a faulty model. I got the "40-hour HUMAX DVD Recorder with TiVo". I thought it would be cool to burn the shows directly onto DVD. That way I don't need to keep a cluttered HDD in the tivo. Maybe it was a wrong choice. If TivoToGo worked correctly, I can burn the shows onto dvd from my PC.


I must be missing something here, but why don't you just burn the DVDs on your HUMAX DVD recorder, instead of transferring the shows to your PC and then burning on your PC?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

shady said:


> I must be missing something here, but why don't you just burn the DVDs on your HUMAX DVD recorder, instead of transferring the shows to your PC and then burning on your PC?


If you want to edit you must use the PC to change the amount you can get on one DVD you need a PC but for a simple DVD when the program(s) fits, TiVo to DVD is the easy way to go. Note: a two hour movie using best recording resolution on the TiVo will not fit on a DVD.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

lessd said:


> If you want to edit you must use the PC to change the amount you can get on one DVD you need a PC but for a simple DVD when the program(s) fits, TiVo to DVD is the easy way to go. Note: a two hour movie using best recording resolution on the TiVo will not fit on a DVD.


 You just gave Ranting Rod that one... the point was to see if he could come up with a viable answer on his own to this slip...

Plus, I'm sure if getting a recording to fit on his brand new TiVo Humax DVD Recorder was an issue for him, I'm sure it would have been among his rants... I doubt he would have just accepted that he's going to have to use his PC to burn his recordings instead of his expensive Humax DVD Recorder, when he's ranted about so much less... he can't understand why his TiVo has FF/RW...

Aside from the fact that if TiVo has been such a challenge for him to operate, figuring out how to edit .tivo files should then prove to be even more perplexing...


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Y-ASK said:


> Ok, now you're making feel like a dumba$$. What does E.B.U.E. stand for?
> 
> Y-ASK


I guess it's not known by a lot of people.

Error
Between
Users
Ears

-smak-


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

smak said:


> I guess it's not known by a lot of people.
> 
> Error
> Between
> ...


we always went with IO error when speaking publicly about such problems
IO error = Ignorant Operator Error


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> we always went with IO error when speaking publicly about such problems
> IO error = Ignorant Operator Error


PEBKAC = Problem Exists Between Keyboard and Chair

or perhaps PEBTAC is a better fit (Problem Exists Between TiVo and Couch)


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## Rosincrans (May 4, 2006)

greg_burns said:


> PEBKAC = Problem Exists Between Keyboard and Chair
> 
> or perhaps PEBTAC is a better fit (Problem Exists Between TiVo and Couch)


ID Ten T error - sounds harmless out loud, but written down:

ID10T


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

mchips said:


> He's obviously reading the forums and bringing up points he has seen other people posting about... he just seems to be having everyone else's problems combined...


I was thinking the same thing.

For someone who seems to be a tech geek, he does seem to have quite a bit of trouble, but the stories are just to exagerated to be believable.

Once a troll, always a troll - protests to the contrary notwithstanding.


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## Fuzzy1 (Jul 13, 2006)

Call him a troll, whiner, whatever you like.. His posts are conscice, well written and entertaining. For me (a total newb) it made me second guess my TIVO purchase. I looked around and came to the conclusion that TIVO was the way to go for me. At the very least he made me stop and think...


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## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

Fuzzy1 said:


> Call him a troll, whiner, whatever you like..


You got that part right.


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## rantrod (Jul 16, 2006)

Man, tough crowd here! A little levity, please! Just trying to relate my experiences from someone who knew little about DVRs when he bought one 

As far as downloading to my PC, Galleon is working great! Not sure how Galleon works and TivoToGo doesn't if they're using a similar API. Maybe the guy developing Galleon figured something out Tivo didn't.

Now I have to figure out how to tell Tivo to record Tv programs remotely from my computer! <crowd rolls their eyes in unison> Haven't researched it yet, so I don't know if it's even possible. I've heard some people here say it is, but haven't tried it yet. It would solve a lot of the problems I have with Tivo (navigating through slow interfaces). This way I just find the shows I want online, and tell my Tivo to get them. How hard can it be?


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

rantrod said:


> Now I have to figure out how to tell Tivo to record things Tv programs remotely from my computer! <crowd rolls their eyes in unison> Haven't researched it yet, so I don't know if it's even possible. It would solve a lot of the problems I have with Tivo (navigating through slow interfaces). This way I just find the shows I want online, and tell my Tivo to get them. How hard can it be?


Answered in #10
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4200432&&#post4200432

http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/index.do


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## rantrod (Jul 16, 2006)

greg_burns said:


> Answered in #10
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4200432&&#post4200432
> 
> http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/index.do


Ok, that looks totally cool. I remember seeing that post earlier, but wasn't ready to try it until now. When reading it, I also didn't realize that from the online listing itself, I could tell my Tivo to record. I assumed there would be some annoying in-between steps or something. I set a couple of programs to record already. Hope it works. <buyer's remorse...subsiding>


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

lessd said:


> If you want to edit you must use the PC to change the amount you can get on one DVD you need a PC but for a simple DVD when the program(s) fits, TiVo to DVD is the easy way to go. Note: a two hour movie using best recording resolution on the TiVo will not fit on a DVD.


I've got TiVo's output connected to a S/A Philips HDRW720/17DVD recorder as well as the TV. Philips' TV Guide+ EPG got in the way so it's turned off. The DVD recorder provides almost complete (sans playlist) easy editing as well as a rolling 6 hour recording buffer. The TV has a variety of sources it can access in various combinations.

When burning a DVD, recording quality is determined by the Philips. I usually use 2 or 2.5 hr quality depending on program length. Anything longer goes to another DVD. Of course quality is theoretically reduced by the signal having to be encoded twice and decoded once, but practically speaking image degradation is hard to detect when recording from TiVo's recording buffer and still decent when re-recorded from a TiVo'd recording @ "high" quality.

After using this configuration for awhile I realize that although editing is easy (after mastering Philips' overly confusing interface) it's time-consuming because a program must be recorded twice in realtime and then edited. For casually recording programs which aren't cluttered with incessent commercial breaks the Humax TiVo DVD recorder would be more than adequate.

I actually prefer LG's LRM-519 to TiVo's DVD recorders but that's a topic for another thread.


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## rantrod (Jul 16, 2006)

I downloaded a few programs to my computer, but when I try to play the files in my media player (version 11), the video flickers. I should have the right codecs, since I play DVD movies all the time. Before I uninstalled TivoToGo, movies did play fine on it, why is it different on the media player?


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

rantrod said:


> I downloaded a few programs to my computer, but when I try to play the files in my media player (version 11), the video flickers. I should have the right codecs, since I play DVD movies all the time. Before I uninstalled TivoToGo, movies did play fine on it, why is it different on the media player?


I don't know why it would be different, but codecs are definately a PITA. Did you have the Plus ($$$) version of TivoDeskto 2.3? It includes its own codec it would have been using prior to being uninstalled.

In WMP, while playing a .tivo file, choose File->Properties (if you can find the menu anymore  ). That should tell you what codecs (audio and video) are being used for playback.


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## rantrod (Jul 16, 2006)

greg_burns said:


> I don't know why it would be different, but codecs are definately a PITA. Did you have the Plus ($$$) version of TivoDeskto 2.3? It includes its own codec it would have been using prior to being uninstalled.
> 
> In WMP, while playing a .tivo file, choose File->Properties (if you can find the menu anymore  ). That should tell you what codecs (audio and video) are being used for playback.


Under File->Properties, it says "Nero Video Decoder" for Video.

I did not get Plus.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

rantrod said:


> Great example of how bad Tivo's QA process is. They should not put something faulty in the market.
> 
> I was trying to use TivoToGo, here are the steps:
> 
> ...


WOOPS!! You must steps 1 & 2!

1) Read the manual
2) Read the help file.


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