# HR20 superior in my eyes to the HR10



## gregftlaud (Jun 16, 2004)

So back in May I decided to make the jump and upgrade to mpeg4. I was offered the entired upgrade for free. Including a slimline dish, install, free HR20, free H20 and got to keep my HR10 also. I was scared to death. Well after getting the dish properly installed and now having used the HR20 since the end of May I can say I am glad I made the switch. The HR20 is far superior to the HR20......seems seamless.....and I have yet to experience any problems/bugs with this unit. In addition my ota signal strenth is like 20 points better than the HR10. That's just one plus. Setting something to record is so easy and fast (as opposed to the long "please wait" when u set something to record on the HR10) One touch set to record in the guide is great. The guide is lightening fast. I can go on and on about how easy this unit is to use and how much better it is. The only thing the HR10 has over the HR20 is dual buffers. But hey I have learned to live without it until they upgrade the HR20 with that capability. An easy fix is just to record two things at once and u have buffers. So this is just for all of you who are afraid to make the switch like I was. Go on. It is worth it!!!!!


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

I am also interested in your mayonnaise brand choices. What brand do you use now and how do you like it?

I realize there is no such thing as "*Tivo* Powered" mayonnaise so perhaps my post in "Main *Tivo* Forum/DirecTV HDTV *TiVo* Powered PVR" is not approriate. Sorry.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

It's good that you're happy with it since ultimately with DirecTV you have no other option.

Here's a forum were you can share your happiness with other happy HR20 users.

http://www.dbstalk.com/


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Do we really need to go through all of this again?


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

gregftlaud said:


> The HR20 is far superior to the HR20......seems seamless.....and I have yet to experience any problems/bugs with this unit.


I hear the R15 is far superior to the R15 as well...


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

Look, what's wrong with comparing the two units if your currently have the HR10-250 and a HR20?

I have both after my HR10-250 went to crap! After almost 2 months I also find the HR20 to be way better than the HR10-250. SD PQ is better as well. Faster guide, networking, easy to recored shows, etc. Yes, I miss the DLB and the TiVo SPM but that's it!

There are a TON of TiVo HR10-250 users who will be upgrading because of the new HD channels or because their HR10 is not in the crapper! Well if they are forum members here, that will and should be able to ask some questions. Or comparing the tow units here or a DBStalk should also be fine.

Look, I LOVED my HR10-250 and my other TiVo units. The HR10-250 finally let me use my new HDTV to it's fullest. I never really watched HD stuff until I got my HR10-250 over a year ago. But, it's now a piece of crap and has been rendered to the bedroom.

The 6.3+ updates KILLED the damn thing. But I am happier today wit the HR10-250

You HR10-250 die hards need to realize that the HR10-250 is past it's prime and will be a fossil in a few months unless you don't want any new HD channels from D*

And if it does not die within the next 2 yrs it will be useless for HD from D* probably by the end of 2008!

Now should the HR20 be discussed solely on it's own here without mention of the HR10-250? NO!

Relax guys and take a chill. Open your eyes and free your mind and take a look at the future with D*. It's the HR20!!

Now I would not take a R15 over my old Hughes HDVR2 for anything!


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

gio1269 said:


> Look, what's wrong with comparing the two units if your currently have the HR10-250 and a HR20?...


Because it has been requested by the forum administration!
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=271336


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

JimSpence said:


> Because it has been requested by the forum administration!
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=271336


Is this something new?


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

JimSpence said:


> Because it has been requested by the forum administration!
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=271336


but how can you stick it to the Man if you follow all the rules


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Sir_winealot said:


> Is this something new?


No, see the original date of the sticky thread.


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

JimSpence said:


> Because it has been requested by the forum administration!
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=271336


well they need to lighten up! That's just STUPID if you are talking about both and comparing.
The HR10-250 is a dying breed!


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

gio1269 said:


> The HR10-250 is a dying breed!


They said the same thing about big sunglasses.


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## Markman07 (Jul 18, 2001)

I have two tivos in my living / tv room now. (4 tuners of awesomeness) One HR10-250 and one Hughes Directv Series 2. Tomorrow the Zippered Series 2 is getting retired (or moved to the bedroom to replace the R10.) and the Directv HR20-x00 will be installed with the new dish, etc. It should be interesting to see how it all works out with.

So if I have one HR10-250 and one HR20-700/100 does this mean I should cross post between the two sites?  I just hope they get along together.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

Markman07 said:


> So if I have one HR10-250 and one HR20-700/100


How about this for an idea:

You talk about the DirecTV HDTV Tivo powered receiver in the Tivo Community Forum, on its DirecTV HDTV Tivo powered subforum.

But you talk about a DirecTV HDTV non-Tivo powered receiver somewhere else.


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## Markman07 (Jul 18, 2001)

Redux said:


> How about this for an idea:
> 
> You talk about the DirecTV HDTV Tivo powered receiver in the Tivo Community Forum, on its DirecTV HDTV Tivo powered subforum.
> 
> But you talk about a DirecTV HDTV non-Tivo powered receiver somewhere else.


WOW - You better update your profile sense of humor score and set it back to 0. 
Next you should then reset your "Understanding Sarcasm Score to -5" 
Then go to the pharmacist and get a chill pill followed by a go to the moon store and get a lighten up drink. Geez .... WOW.... First time from any of my posts I have had someone get a little bent out of shape out from a post from me. Congrats!

DEEP breath now DEEP breath...we are only talking about DVR's not life or death.

Summary - The SMILES box to the right of the posting window may help you.


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## Markman07 (Jul 18, 2001)

Sir_winealot said:


> They said the same thing about big sunglasses.


Hilarious!!!


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

Markman07 said:


> Then go to the pharmacist and get a chill pill followed by a go to the moon store and get a lighten up drink.


Thought you needed a scrip for these now? Or are they still OTC?


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## Markman07 (Jul 18, 2001)

No they aren't over the counter but you do need some ID. You also only can purchase them four times a year.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

/subscribe. Like waiting for a car wreck to occur at a busy intersection.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

There is nothing the tiniest bit funny about the death struggle between Tivo and DirecTV. The winner will control not just our entertainment modes, but our way of life, our very lives themselves.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

Markman07 said:


> No they aren't over the counter but you do need some ID.


ID 'bout whut?


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## Markman07 (Jul 18, 2001)

Redux said:


> There is nothing the tiniest bit funny about the death struggle between Tivo and DirecTV. The winner will control not just our entertainment modes, but our way of life, our very lives themselves.


That is why I have plenty of bottled water and canned food in my 400 foot deep concrete bunker!


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Redux said:


> There is nothing the tiniest bit funny about the death struggle between Tivo and DirecTV. The winner will control not just our entertainment modes, but our way of life, our very lives themselves.


Is it odd that as I read your post I heard dramatic music from 1940's radio shows playing in my head?


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Not only is there a DBSTalk forum for the HR20 but there is also one there for TiVo based DVRs.
http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=65


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## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

everyone here watches way too much tv


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## Citivas (Oct 12, 2000)

Glad it works well for you and you like it and I know many do. It helps, I suppose, that you weren't literally forced by D* to live through the the disaster of stability that was the earlier months of the product while remaining a paying customer. But I agree it is pretty stable now -- not as stable as my 10-250 but close enough that my guess is it is wash when averaged across all users since clearly some people have stability issues with the 10-250...

I still have both and use both extensively, about equal overall. I have pretty much no brand loyalty and an happy enough to have someone do better than the last device, TiVo included. I still operate on the faith that D* will get there some day...

But while I respect that this is all subjective, to me the 10-250 is still way better to use overall than the HR20. Some things are better about each. There are definitely things I prefer on HR20. But at the end of the day it is about basic usability of the things you do all the time, not once in a while. For me, for every time you need to hit record on the live show or use any of the functions (inconsistently and poorly called out) assigned to the HR20s color buttons, there is the constant repetition of the show navigation features (fast forward, pause, jump to the beginning, etc.) or selecting and navigating the guide, or selecting or editing the season passes. Of these features (with the exception of the much better speed of the season pass feature after making changes on the HR20), I still find the TiVo much better.

The main reason is the remote. In theory I could be just as happy with the 30-second skip feature on the HR20 as I am with the intelligent step back feature on the TiVo (i.e. its ability to skip back a few seconds, variable to the speed of the fast forward to compensate for the time it took you to hit the button, which I always find works perfectly for me). The problem is, the remote is so inconsistent in its response that I cant rely on it. I might select it to advance 4 segments but it loses two keystrokes and only does half that, then it stores it like a delayed buffer and suddenly does two more than I need. And manually selecting a channel can be an act of severe frustration. These remote responsiveness issues have been widely reported going back to last year on the HR20 forum, so, combined with D* telling me it is a known issue when refusing to replace the remote, I know this is not an isolated case.

Beyond this sluggish remote issue, the layout just isnt as good. Combining the play and pause keys is user interface 101 in the 21st Century  there cant be a patent on it because basically EVERYONE is doing it EXCEPT D*. This was perhaps the single most useful feature of the remote because I use it more often than most. By comparison, to touch feel your way to the little pause button down and to the left of play for the HR20 is dumb. Similarly, the little guide key that has to be hit twice, or the seemingly randomly located generic key to access recorded shows  perhaps the single most important key on a DVR  is baffling. Add to this the still sometimes random quirky bugs of the screens and it makes navigation much less pleasant. Seriously, if they just fixed the remote and the nav quirks, I could start to love the HR20 and stop worrying about the day my 10-250 inevitably gives out.

My second biggest gripe is capacity. This is something I havent seen discussed much, but while in theory both boxes should have similar capacity, I have found the HR20 has far less practical capacity. I set up the exact same 39 season passes on both machines on exactly the same channels (i.e. HD or non-HD version of a channel) with the same settings for keeping X # of episodes and keey until delete versus as space needed, etc. And I was religious about deleting a show from both machines the same day I watched it on either. On the plus side, I really like the HRs % meter of capacity left. Nice feature versus the TiVo. But that doesnt trump that the TiVo held significantly more programming before running out of capacity and deleting older shows. Like about 20 hours different, with a mix of SD and HD content. This is a significant downer for me

The future of D* is the HR20, and its sequels, so I am definitely hoping to see it improve and surpass the TiVo. I just havent seen it yet.


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## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

I for one am glad to hear what you think about the HR20 Greg. I don't care in the least bit that it's taboo to be talked about here either. I like my HR10 as much as anyone else here but we all have to face it, if we're going to stay with Directv and want an HD-Dvr, it's HR20 time. It sucks, but that's the way it is. I really can't understand how a guy talking about his experience with the HR10's logical replacement is SO horrible. I for one seldom if ever make it to any of the "approved" HR20 discussion forums because quite frankly I really like this forum.

I know there are things from my HR10 that I'm really going to miss, such as the ability to upgrade the hard drive (internally), Wishlists, Tivo's rock solid stability (except for certain 6.3x releases), and did I mention Wishlists?  The writings on the walls though and the HR10's days are definitely now numbered. Tivo's days for me are numbered, as I won't be switching over to an SA device from them as their service has become way too expensive. I really hope Tivo as a company can hold on, but I have to wonder with all of the competition they have now, and all of them at a cheaper rate.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

Redux said:


> But you talk about a DirecTV HDTV non-Tivo powered receiver somewhere else.


Right, wouldn't want any any unbiased favorable reviews of a competitor to get in the way of of the Tivo lemmings (aka Tivo Army) 'Nothing can ever be better then a Tivo' preaching/philosophy.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

I have no problem with having general discussions here about the HR20, but I'd prefer to go to the "other" forum to get details.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

Mark Lopez said:


> Right, wouldn't want any any unbiased favorable reviews of a competitor to get in the way of of the Tivo lemmings (aka Tivo Army) 'Nothing can ever be better then a Tivo' preaching/philosophy.


Like a broken record..."TiVo lemmings," blah-blah-blah. Rinse and repeat... 



JimSpence said:


> I have no problem with having general discussions here about the HR20, but I'd prefer to go to the "other" forum to get details.


As long as the ponderous proselytizing and antagonistic attitude is left out of the discussion (which is so often prevelant), I would agree.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

I agree completely with Sir_winealot. I'm interested in open, honest discussions like Citivas gave. Instead, it feels like we have a bunch of Direct shills coming over here. 

Think about it - Direct is hoping every one of us get a new box - they don't even care if we like it - just get it and you're locked for 2 more years. In the mean time, they hope we'll forget about the Tivo experience that most of really enjoy. So, it's only natural for them to send in the shills to say 'now folks, it's time to take your medicine and be strong - it won't hurt for too long - big brother knows best'

The more folks they get on their HR20 list, the less worry they have about the Tivo users looking for an alternative source. So, the next couple of months is crucial to them. They've got to convince us to get on the bandwagon before it's too late. Because if we discover that the new HD channels is the SOS of the current channels, then they've lost a big gamble with the current Tivo users, and they'll lose the edge they've got with the current HD hype.

I don't like the way Direct is treating the Tivo customers and I resent the big brother attitude of everyone trying to convince us we have to move right now or else.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

RS4 said:


> Instead, it feels like we have a bunch of Direct shills coming over here.


You keep forgetting that most of your fabled "DirecTV shills" have been on this forum longer then you have. 



> The more folks they get on their HR20 list, the less worry they have about the Tivo users looking for an alternative source. So, the next couple of months is crucial to them. They've got to convince us to get on the bandwagon before it's too late. Because if we discover that the new HD channels is the SOS of the current channels, then they've lost a big gamble with the current Tivo users, and they'll lose the edge they've got with the current HD hype.
> 
> I don't like the way Direct is treating the Tivo customers and I resent the big brother attitude of everyone trying to convince us we have to move right now or else.


You forget one simple fact: If you want the new HD channels there is no choice but to go with the HR20. Or leave DirecTV. That's it, end of discussion. The simple truth, for ill or good, like it or not. No attitude, just the plain truth. Truth hurts sometimes but you can't deny it.

Tivo devotees (not a bad thing!) didn't leave in droves 2 years ago with the introduction of the R15 and they aren't leaving in droves now with the HR20. You continue to fail to realize that there just isn't enough people that care enough to leave for DirecTV to care themselves. Again, simple fact. Nothing "bad" about Tivo. Just the fact. Again, like it or not that's just the way it is.

I wish everyone good luck in their search for the perfect provider with the perfect DVR. Let us all know how it goes.

As many of you get an HR20 to get the new HD, please come on over to DBSTalk (sister site to this forum) for open and honest discussion and help about the HR20 and all DVR platforms used by DirecTV (including Tivo).


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

Sir_winealot said:


> Like a broken record.... blah-blah-blah. Rinse and repeat...


If the shoe fits.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

*"You keep forgetting that most of your fabled "DirecTV shills" have been on this forum longer then you have. "*

I'm not denying that most of you used to be former Tivo owners. What bothers me is that you have allowed a company to come out with a barely functioning box, get it somewhat working, and now declare it a marvel of modern time. You folks are settling for mediocre when the rest of us want the quality and ease of use that is available from the Tivo.

Direct and Tivo have had dealings for several years, but it is quite obvious that Direct learned nothing from the relationship or they would have had a much better box at relase time. Instead, it appears that they threw a bunch of people at a project and came September said it was ready for the market. And then you make all kinds of excuses on why you put up with such poor quality.

So, that tells me you folks can't see the forest for the trees. You've gotten used to poor quality, so when the thing actually works and doesn't need to be rebooted 3 times a day, you think it's marvelous.

I think its a shame in many ways. You and others have settled for poorer quality and allowed Direct to get away with a sham. Now, the rest of us are going to end up with less then what we currently have. That is not helping to improve the viewing experience for the rest of us. If instead, you folks would have put the effort into having Direct refund your money, or other such measures, we might be seeing that Direct realized they were having a mutiny and may have formed a new relationship with Tivo for mpeg4.

So now all we see are your remarks about this being the only thing in the market.

Yes, there are many folks who will put up with the other box because they think they need the HD that Direct will be showing. So they are being forced into the box. But a lot of them would prefer the Tivo.

I still believe there is no rush. Let's see what happens with the HD channels. Let's see what happens with switched video from the cables. In the mean time, if Direct sees that a lot of Tivo owners are not opting for the new box, maybe they'll consider the alternatives more openly.

I see Direct as a big bully. They force you into settling for poorer quality and force you to accept it for 2 years all in the hopes that you'll forget how nice it used to be. Oh yeah, they may give you DLB in another year or two and all you guys will think thats marvelous. The rest of us will just laugh and think they're finally at the stage of where they should have been for releasing the product.

The fact remains that many many Tivo users don't like the HR20. They would gladly use a Tivo Mpeg4 box. I'm hoping enough of us wait to show Direct they better rethink things.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

RS4 said:


> You folks are settling for mediocre when the rest of us want the quality and ease of use that is available from the Tivo.


Man you continue to be funny. How am I "settling" for mediocre when *my* HR20 (emphasis on my) is flawless. Never lost a recording. After 10 months it still records everything I tell it to. I don't know how this is settling on something. Ease of use for me is better then Tivo. Once touch record is the best. I don't know why you can't get it into your thick skull that there are other ways to do things and not everyone sees Tivo as the best. Me? I could take either the Tivo interface or the DirecTV interface or leave either one. Both are fine. I prefer the DirecTV interface for it's speed and ease of use. But no where do I say the Tivo interface sucks.

Oh yea, you've *never actually used* the HR20 (or R15 for that matter). You've just *heard* it sucks. Your act is getting old, even here on the Tivo forum. You need to come up with a new one before everyone ignores you. 



> I see Direct as a big bully. They force you into settling for poorer quality and force you to accept it for 2 years all in the hopes that you'll forget how nice it used to be.


But here we are back to the crux of your entire problem, 2 year commitment. It seems to be the only problem you have at the end of the day and I'm not sure why you are so scared of it. Pretty much any cable company or FIOS will gladly buy out your remaining commitment to get you to switch so you really have nothing to lose if the world comes to an end when you get an HR20. 

Your issue with the commitment just doesn't hold water I'm afraid to say.



> Oh yeah, they may give you DLB in another year or two and all you guys will think thats marvelous. The rest of us will just laugh and think they're finally at the stage of where they should have been for releasing the product.


Not really. DLB is a hot topic on DBSTalk. Many people could care less about it while many people feel they must have it. Again, it's a take it or leave it thing. If they add DLB someday I will shrug my shoulders and go "eh, whatever", good for them. DirecTV takes a lot of heat on this subject. If you'd do a little research you'd know that.

Just like the autocorrection that was recently added. It's gotten no great fanfare other then "good show". And there are a few people that said "now that the HR20 has autocorrection I can get one since it was a deal breaker for me". Everyone has a different opinion on what feature(s) are most important to them. Another concept you fail to get time and time again. 



> The fact remains that many many Tivo users don't like the HR20. They would gladly use a Tivo Mpeg4 box. I'm hoping enough of us wait to show Direct they better rethink things.


Awesome, that is great (*however you have no right to say you don't like the HR20 since you have never used one.*) But there isn't enough of you and it's not going to happen. Just accept it and move on, please? You'll feel better, I guarantee you. 

Anyway, it's been fun posting with you again. I yield the floor to someone else.


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## lionsandwings (Jul 8, 2007)

I am about to move so I took the opportunity to get a free upgrade on my equipment.

I called to "cancel" due to cost of D* and getting bundled internet with cable.

They offered me a free upgrade to HR 200, new dish, install my current HR10-250 in a bedroom and bring a new box for the kitchen.

Also offered $10 disc on programing for 12 months and FREE SUPERFAN!

*With regards to the free superfan, the CSR mentioned he would check to see what NFL Ticket retention offers are currently available. He then came back with free superfan for current NFL ticket subscribers.*


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

RS4 said:


> What bothers me is that you have allowed a company to come out with a barely functioning box, get it somewhat working, and now declare it a marvel of modern time.


From your join date here, I would think you are talking about Tivo. It was hardly perfect when first released. Even now after 7+ years it still has bugs and shortcomings. The HR20 has progressed far faster with resolving issues than Tivo ever did.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Mark Lopez said:


> Right, wouldn't want any any unbiased favorable reviews of a competitor to get in the way of of the Tivo lemmings (aka Tivo Army) 'Nothing can ever be better then a Tivo' preaching/philosophy.


Where are these so-called "unbiased favorable reviews"? If you get an HR20 you've most likely commited to DTV for two more years, which hardly qualifies one as unbiased. If you're not tied to DirecTV the relevant comparison isn't the HR10 (which DTV has deliberately hobbled from the start), it's the S3.

Most of these reviews are from people who either won't give up their sports package or won't consider cable as an option. They're blind to DTV's rising price and declining value. Their wife may put them on the couch for ditching Tivo, but they're happy as long as they have something that will record the game.

If you want share your "unbiased favorable review" of the HR20, please share what options you considered. Otherwise I can only assume you're a starving man reviewing dog food.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

nrc said:


> Where are these so-called "unbiased favorable reviews"?


  Ummm.... Did you not read this thread title and the OP? 

But if it will make you feel better, replace 'unbiased' with 'open minded'.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

*"I could take either the Tivo interface or the DirecTV interface or leave either one."*

It's obvious you don't care for Tivo, Scott. Why don't you leave this forum to those of us that do? You keep feeding us all that crap and half truths. We've had enough of it.

If folks to go over to the other forum, they'll find exactly what I've described. If Direct had so much confidence in their new box, they would give us a trail program, but of course we know, they don't have the guts. Heck, they didn't even have the decency to admit to people the box was a POS and let them out of the commitment.

This is a TIVO forum - we care about the TIVO.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

Mark Lopez said:


> ..... get in the way of of the Tivo lemmings (aka Tivo Army) 'Nothing can ever be better then a Tivo' preaching/philosophy.





RS4 said:


> Why don't you leave this forum to those of us that do? You keep feeding us all that crap and half truths. We've had enough of it.
> 
> Heck, they didn't even have the decency to admit to people the box was a POS and let them out of the commitment.
> 
> This is a TIVO forum - we care about the TIVO.


I rest my case.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

Mark Lopez said:


> The HR20 has progressed far faster with resolving issues than Tivo ever did.


And that's relevant how?


The HR20 was supossed to be an upgrade to current offerings. You know, the 'new and improved' DVR?

So you can talk about the HR20 "progressing" as much as you want, but you must take into consideration _current standards._

D* had taken a step backwards by releasing a DVR that was not-yet-ready for primetime, and made it better all at the expense of its'_ paying_ customers...while locking us in to another 2 years.

We've been used as lab rats since day 1 ....and still are.

The unit should've at the very least, been the equivalent of the current HR10 _upon its release_....and it was nowhere close. Most folks had major problems in the first 6+ months, and all we got back from D* was a replacement unit(s) and some programming credit for our troubles (after spending a heckuva lot of time on the phone).

Is the HR20 better now? Yes. But anybody who thinks we as customers weren't taken advantage of at its' inception is nuts; if I had wanted to be a beta tester, I would've signed up for it.


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## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

The biggest gripe I have with Directv right now isn't that they got rid of Tivo, it's their ridiculous 2 year agreements. I HATE getting myself into any kind of agreement on trivial things such as a satellite television service provider or a cell phone provider, etc. I don't like limiting my future choices at all. This is why if Directv tries to lock me into one of these I'm simply going to tell them that I'm going to try out Comcast for a while instead.

At least with them I won't get locked into anything and I can cancel at anytime. I highly doubt I'll like Comcast as much as Directv, but the only way to know for sure is to give them a shot. Lol, it's not like there's any difference in DVR's anymore, and if Comcast ever follows through with their Tivo based DVR, they might get the upper hand on Directv.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Mark Lopez said:


> Ummm.... Did you not read this thread title and the OP?
> 
> But if it will make you feel better, replace 'unbiased' with 'open minded'.


Did you read my post? I already explained how the OP isn't "unbiased" and neither does he appear "open minded". Where does he compare the S3? Where does he discuss the alternatives he considered? As far as we can tell he's giving us a glowing review of his only option.

He's committed to DirecTV. He's going to take what they give him.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Mark Lopez said:


> The HR20 has progressed far faster with resolving issues than Tivo ever did.


Given the early reviews that would seem to have been made possible by starting out with more issues than TiVo ever had.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

nrc said:


> If you get an HR20 you've most likely commited to DTV for two more years, which hardly qualifies one as unbiased.


I picked up my HR10 in August of 2005, the same month that the policy change (2 years for advanced receivers/DVRs) went into effect. So the notion that the only reason for the commitment is that the HR20 is not TiVo is in error.

Plus, if to this point I'd found the HR20 or DIRECTV service that inept, I had an offer from TWC to buy out my DIRECTV/Verizon DSL services _provided_ I make a 3 year commitment to them. As a 9 year customer to DIRECTV, I'd like to think that if I complained long and hard about a product that it would hold some sway and they'd take the unit back and cancel the commitment. Fact is, that hasn't been necessary and the last time a DVR in my setup missed a recording it was the HR10, which I found in a comatose state in January, unresponsive to remote and front panel buttons and requiring a power plug pull to revive.

I guess it makes you feel safe to minimize the fact that others no longer feel TiVo necessary to their DVR requirements by supposing reasons why that could happen. Fact is TiVo has never been the only solution and UTV users will tell you it was an inferior platform. Some of us are open to other platforms, but not so open to accept an inferior product. Bottomline is, after auditioning other DVR platforms, TiVo's not "all that", IMO.


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

RS4 said:


> I agree completely with Sir_winealot. I'm interested in open, honest discussions like Citivas gave. Instead, it feels like we have a bunch of Direct shills coming over here.
> 
> Think about it - Direct is hoping every one of us get a new box - they don't even care if we like it - just get it and you're locked for 2 more years. In the mean time, they hope we'll forget about the Tivo experience that most of really enjoy. So, it's only natural for them to send in the shills to say 'now folks, it's time to take your medicine and be strong - it won't hurt for too long - big brother knows best'
> 
> ...


What 2 yrs?? The HR10-250 got me into a 2yr contract, not my Hr20!

I got my HR20 for $19 and no commit! The HR10-250 cost me $59 in the end and 2 yrs which I am fine with anyways!


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

nrc said:


> Where are these so-called "unbiased favorable reviews"? If you get an HR20 you've most likely commited to DTV for two more years, which hardly qualifies one as unbiased. If you're not tied to DirecTV the relevant comparison isn't the HR10 (which DTV has deliberately hobbled from the start), it's the S3.
> 
> Most of these reviews are from people who either won't give up their sports package or won't consider cable as an option. They're blind to DTV's rising price and declining value. Their wife may put them on the couch for ditching Tivo, but they're happy as long as they have something that will record the game.
> 
> If you want share your "unbiased favorable review" of the HR20, please share what options you considered. Otherwise I can only assume you're a starving man reviewing dog food.


Again!* What 2 yrs?? The HR10-250 got me into a 2yr contract, not my Hr20!*

I got my HR20 for $19 and *no commit*! The HR10-250 cost me $59 in the end and 2 yrs which I am fine with anyways!

read my post and I will give a "un-biased" review. I am not not to TiVo software or D*'s software.
Just to a DVR that will run perfectly and do what I want.

The HR10-250 went to "hell in a hand basket" when the 6.3 updates started and ceased to be a quality DVR.

2+months my HR20 has been flawless! Perfect? No, I miss DLB, wishlists and the SPM, but nothing to cry over. The HR20 has better features for what I want and is faster!

There are SO many favorable reviews and bad ones for the HR20 AS the HR10-250 as well.
That's the public and human nature for you! There are always happy and angry people for ANY product ever developed during the *existence* of mankind!

Most the TiVo geeks here are worse than the "Mac" crowd.

Yes, Different strokes for differnt folks!"

But the HR10-250 is dying breed and TiVo itself if they don't align with someone or get a new DVR ready for the new cable format fast!

Can they survive as a "software only" company in the future? I doubt it! But I hope someday a TiVo can make it back into my house full-time.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

gio1269 said:


> Again!* What 2 yrs?? The HR10-250 got me into a 2yr contract, not my Hr20!*


_What_ 2 years? 

Er...um...the 2 years that started the clock ticking the day you 'leased' your HR20?

Unless you worked out a deal with D* where you got the agreement waived....which at times can be done....you must commit to another 24 months or face a prorated cancellation penalty.

If that's the case, your "what 2 years??" is far from the norm, which I have a feeling you are well aware of.



gio1269 said:


> Most the TiVo geeks here are worse than the "Mac" crowd.


Yeah, unlike so many of those that come here hawking the 'superiority' of the HR20.  .......Funny how that works out here in the _TiVo Community _Forum.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Sep 11, 2006)

I've been a Tivo-phile since I bought 2 Phillips D*/TiVo receivers the first week they were made. Both only had one active tuner, but the DVR experience was amazing to my family. I've been on tivocommunity.com since 2001 with a different userid. (I forgot my password, but the registered e-mail account was abandoned by me when I changed ISP's - my name is Dan Herrmann)

I loved coming here to get the latest from Tivoangelist (who was laid off) and get in on the betas. My favorite beta was the dual tuner. Wow!

I moved to the HR10-250. Bought 2 of them - each for $999. (ouch!). We loved these too. 

But then came the decision to go to MPEG-4. D* obviously needed to do this - HD content is just too "big" for MPEG-2. 

So, in the spring, I got a new slimline 5 LNB dish and 2 HR20 receivers.

Up an running in about 30 minutes, these really work now. They're fast, the PQ on the MPEG-4 locals is better than the MPEG-2 New York nets. It holds more programming, and you can always replace the drive via an eSATA connection. Some even have 1TB drives. It connects to my PC's music and photos. It will get VOD soon. And, now that D-10 is in orbit, it'll get the 100 new HD channels.

And the OTA reception is a lot better than the HR10. I get 50% more OTA channels with the HR20.

Trust me, folks. I LOVE TiVo - I got at least 10 people to buy one or more. I love the peanut remote

But the HR20 really is better than the HR10 right now. 

And the "cutting edge" program is wonderful, where technophiles act as acceptance testers. DirecTV software engineers listen to us and have tweaked the UI, the functionality, and the media sharing. Auto correction is in there now, VOD is coming up soon too.

Like I said, I love TiVo, but it just isn't in DirecTV's future. The way I saw it, it was go to Comcast or change to the HR20. I went with the HR20.

BTW, the spousal acceptance factor of the HR20 is very good too. She likes it better than the HR10.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

RS4 said:


> You keep feeding us all that crap and half truths. We've had enough of it.


Evidence please.
Point by point.
Put up or shut up.
Facts only.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

And yet another thread takes a wrong turn. 

Will a moderator please close this thread.


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

Sir_winealot said:


> _What_ 2 years?
> 
> Er...um...the 2 years that started the clock ticking the day you 'leased' your HR20?
> 
> ...


No! I have the D* Protection plan and it was replaced. There IS NO renewal on the commitment. It's stated on my account. I called a week later to see when my contract end. It ends July 2008. Two years from when I purchased my HR10.

I had NO contract when I bout my HR10-250 originally for $399 and a 2yr commit.
After many complaints and credits, I ended up paying $39 for it.

yes, My HR20 is NOW leased but who cares? I have the Protection plan as well. So if my leased HR20 dies I get a free one. No protect plan, $19 to get a new one and no extension of your contract.

The HR20 has superior features that the HR10 does NOT have IMO. The HR10-280 went to CRAP after the 6.3+ updates. Until then I was VERY happy with it. In the beginning the HR20 was a pile of crap and was Beta tested on D* users.

Only talk about the HR20 when comparing it. BOTH are excellent DVRs!

But wake-up. The HR10 is dying breed, unfortunately.


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## Matt L (Aug 13, 2000)

Once again, this thread is a prime example of why HR20 discussion needs to be moved off site.


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## stephen431 (Jul 9, 2007)

I came here looking for this exact opinion. I've read these boards off & on for years. Mainly for the tips & tricks & info on the old Tivonet cards. I've got 3 DirecTivos and 2 will probably never be used anymore since I moved a few months ago.

You can avoid the 2yr contract if you buy a box outright.

I've had direcTivos since the Sony Series 1s and am finally making the HD jump. I've liked Tivo enough that as recently as November I had cajoled a D* CSR into replacing a dead Phillips box with a Tivo model instead of a Directv DVR. 

I like Tivo but I hate cable enough to stick with D*, and the HR20 seems to be a decent upgrade from the HR10 according to the "other" forum. I wanted to see if any of the Tivo faithful felt the same way. Other than the remote issues, a 50 season pass limit & an issue with aspect ratios on some 720p shows, there haven't been any other complaints about the HR20 from HR10 users. I was looking for a compelling reason to seek out an HR10 and haven't really found one. 

I came to the forums too to look into the possibility of Cox Cablecards with a Series3 but there are major complaints about the Cox Cablecards in my area. I also think my past experiences with TWC may have soured me on cable forever.

I wish we could have found a way to get D* to keep Tivo.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

stephen431 said:


> I wish we could have found a way to get D* to keep Tivo.


But because we could not (and the forces in play then and now [where it is again a possibility] are beyond our influence) the DirecTV products competing with Tivo products, and Tivo-bashing in general, are not suitable content for a Tivo forum, other than in specific Tivo-bashing sub-forums as I have proposed elsewhere.

Tivo has a nice collection of products we discuss here.

For competing products I think it's appropriate to look elsewhere, hopefully including the Tivo-bashing sub-forums I have proposed here, if the operators are willing.


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## jk4507 (Dec 30, 2004)

Love the super-detailed and frank-informative comments here. 

I love my HR10-250 which I recently upgraded to 500. Have had no problems with the updates - esp. loved the the one 6 months with folders and speedy guide. This was critical - should've been deployed 2 years ago.

I have to get another HD-DVR; the HR20's biggest issue for me is the remote.

The TIVO remote is the most perfectly designed remote - and it's a 7-8 year old design. I use it like braille. 

Many other issues to numerous to mention (that you all have mentioned)- but the TIVO remote kicks ass - esp. with the upgraded HR10. Am I right?


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

Mark Lopez said:


> Right, wouldn't want any any unbiased favorable reviews of a competitor to get in the way of of the Tivo lemmings (aka Tivo Army) 'Nothing can ever be better then a Tivo' preaching/philosophy.


I only have one criteria... I want a DVR that can record everything I want without any manual intervention or any reboots for one month. So far the only product that has done that is TiVo. I have access to four HR20's and they have not passed this simple test yet. They are getting closer but still have a ways to go.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

Matt L said:


> Once again, this thread is a prime example of why HR20 discussion needs to be moved off site.


that's funny - my thoughts are the exact opposite of yours


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

And if the people that hate these threads would just let them die then there wouldn't be a big discussion like this that fires up every couple weeks. Can't you just let it go and let the threads die? I guess not...


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

In addition to all of the problems with the gear and usability, the other forum has enough comments about 'it's ok, but I'd rather have a Tivo' to tell even a casual observer that the Direct box is not a big hit.

The only reason to switch at this point is to get mpeg4. And when you read the other forum, that's exactly why they are getting the new box. A huge number of comments on the other forum indicate that Tivo people wish they were using a Tivo mepg4.

That folks is not any way shape or form an overwhelming endorsement of a new product.

I participated in a discussion on the other board where the OP suggested that it was time for fence setters to get on board the new bandwagon. During the discussion, it became clear that brand new users have hardware that doesn't work. One guy even said that he couldn't advance to the next channel, and the moderator said that was going to be fixed in the next release. So, here we are nine months after the box is released and in some case it hangs up doing a simple function like moving to the next channel. Tell me again how well thought out and how well tested this box is.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

RS4 said:


> I participated in a discussion on the other board where the OP suggested that it was time for fence setters to get on board the new bandwagon.


OK, I just waded through 40 pages in the HR20 section @ DBSTalk looking for threads started by "gregftlaud" and the only ones I saw were of a technical nature, none regarding transitioning from HR10 to HR20.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

bidger said:


> OK, I just waded through 40 pages in the HR20 section @ DBSTalk looking for threads started by "gregftlaud" and the only ones I saw were of a technical nature, none regarding transitioning from HR10 to HR20.


That's because he wasn't referring to gregftlaud, he was merely referring to the OP who had started the particular thread he was speaking about.

I'm guessing it was this:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=90975


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

RS4 said:


> In addition to all of the problems with the gear and usability, the other forum has enough comments about 'it's ok, but I'd rather have a Tivo' to tell even a casual observer that the Direct box is not a big hit.


So what? And that matters why?



> The only reason to switch at this point is to get mpeg4. And when you read the other forum, that's exactly why they are getting the new box. A huge number of comments on the other forum indicate that Tivo people wish they were using a Tivo mepg4.
> 
> That folks is not any way shape or form an overwhelming endorsement of a new product.


Again, so what? There is no MPEG4 Tivo and won't be. Why does it matter that they get an HR20 when they would prefer a Tivo. The Tivo doesn't exist as an option.



> I participated in a discussion on the other board where the OP suggested that it was time for fence setters to get on board the new bandwagon. During the discussion, it became clear that brand new users have hardware that doesn't work. One guy even said that he couldn't advance to the next channel, and the moderator said that was going to be fixed in the next release. So, here we are nine months after the box is released and in some case it hangs up doing a simple function like moving to the next channel. Tell me again how well thought out and how well tested this box is.


Ouch, a little bug and suddenly it's a crappy box. Sigh....

I'm still not getting your point RS4, I really don't. So you keep wanting to point out that the HR20 isn't as good as the HR10 and that some current HR20 users admit that.

To that I say...so what?

So what if HR20 users have been "duped" by DirecTV and just accept the DVR they have been given? 
Why do you care?
And why you care that some people feel the HR20 is better then Tivo?

Again, why do you care? Is it to prove some almighty point that dog gone it DirecTV sucks and everyone should know it? Sounds like a street preacher saying the world is going to end.
You should know by now that it doesn't matter.

Even on this forum I've seen a marked change in posts since the launch of D10. "Well, I guess that means I got to get an HR20". 
What this means is that these people, even LONG time Tivo users, have picked DirecTV over Tivo (for whatever reason that may be). Even if they don't really want to, they now realize they have no choice if they stick with DirecTV. So it doesn't matter if Tivo is better or not. DirecTV doesn't offer Tivo anymore, end of story.

You can't change reality. The fact that some people would prefer to have an MPEG4 Tivo doesn't change the fact there isn't one and there won't be one.

It's HR20 or leave if you want more HD.

I don't understand your crusade. Move to another programming provider and laugh at DirecTV for making a mistake in your eyes and be happy.
All this venom and anger just isn't going to change anything and in fact I'm sure you are turning many people off.
All you look like is a screaming 10 year old that can't have a cookie. The act is old.
We get it. DirecTV made a big mistake by not having Tivo anymore. Get over it and move on.

And again, *if you would just let these threads die they would*.


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## kramerboy (Jul 13, 2001)

bonscott87 said:


> I don't understand your crusade. Move to another programming provider and laugh at DirecTV for making a mistake in your eyes and be happy.


He can't......

He is still under the programming commitment that "*Direct*" _FORCED_ him to sign when he activated his.......

_wait for it.........._

*HR10-250*

He was was upset with DirecTV LONG before the HR20 even made it to market.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Amen Scott. 

I've been a DirecTV customer since late '96 and will stay one for a long time. When I got the DirecTV TiVo (T60) the dual tuners weren't yet enabled. I found this site and a lot of people were asking "where's the dual tuner?". Some quite upset that this unit would be released without them. Similar to the discussion about the dual live buffers on the HR20. 

Is the TiVo interface good? Yes. Is it perfect? Probably not.
Same questions can be asked about the HR20. Changes are happening, so we need to go with the flow. In my case, as I've said before, I'll get the HR20 when it is time for me to get it. The HD content, both nationally and locally, just isn't here yet. I intend to keep all of my DirecTV Tivos for as long as DirecTV supports them (which will be a long time).

BTW, when I do get the HR20, I will only mention it here in passing and then visit the other forum more often than I do now.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

JimSpence said:


> when I do get the HR20, I will only mention it here in passing and then visit the other forum more often than I do now.


Yeah; they all say that. Ten minutes in you'll be here raging at the idiocy of HR10-250 users and swearing that DirecTV's mpeg4 gives you 3D Hidef pictures of God 24/7.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Redux said:


> Yeah; they all say that. Ten minutes in you'll be here raging at the idiocy of HR10-250 users and swearing that DirecTV's mpeg4 gives you 3D Hidef pictures of God 24/7.


I'm curious if you believe that all HR20 users do is rage at HR10 users? I am an HR20 user. I am an HR10 user. All I've ever done in the HR20 threads I've participated in here is try to correct inaccuracies I've seen posted about the HR20 and its support hardware, or answer direct questions about it.

Over the years I have done the same with questions about Cablevision service and the SA8300HD DVR that Cablevision provides.

I recognize that this forum is all about TiVo, so I'm not over here cheerleading and trying to recruit anyone ... I'm just trying to present facts and let users decide for themselves what direction to go in. Just because someone has knowledge of the HR20 and likes it doesn't make them "evil" or "sinister" for commenting on it here.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Redux said:


> Yeah; they all say that. Ten minutes in you'll be here raging at the idiocy of HR10-250 users and swearing that DirecTV's mpeg4 gives you 3D Hidef pictures of God 24/7.


Where's your smilie for that post?


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

Maybe he did "Intend to annoy"?


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

"*I'm guessing it was this:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=90975"*

Yes, that's the link. Check it out. Once again you'll find that while many people like the HR20, there are still people getting brand new boxes that don't work, and many Tivo people who don't like the box at all.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Yes. The launch of a single satellite spells the end for all HR10's.  A laser beam will emanate from the satellite and they will all automatically self-destruct by Labor Day. You might as well just unplug them right now.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Redux said:


> Yeah; they all say that. Ten minutes in you'll be here raging at the idiocy of HR10-250 users and swearing that DirecTV's mpeg4 gives you 3D Hidef pictures of God 24/7.


But then we're all (mostly) smart enough to disregard that as the lunatic fringe.

Here's an actual truism you can hang your hat on that may or may not think applies to the "raging idiocy", which is that $#!+ty software and user-hostile interfaces almost always never get better, while good software and user-friendly interfaces almost never get worse. Tivo might have gotten a little worse, actually, in the last year due to a run of bad luck with 6.x, and the HR20 might have actually gotten a little better. But don't expect things to change much for either, and really, never the twain shall meet. Tivo OS version 2 in 1999 still runs rings around anything else circa 2007.

Bad software is the product of bad engineering, and bad engineers and coders just never learn, which is what makes them bad in the first place, and why what they produce usually sucks right out of the box and then never really gets better. Good software typically does get incrementally better, because those guys are smart enough to learn, which is also why they produce good software in the first place.

So does that apply to all of the recent debate? Oh, in spades it applies, mi amigos.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

RS4 said:


> "*I'm guessing it was this:
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=90975"*
> 
> Yes, that's the link. Check it out. Once again you'll find that while many people like the HR20, there are still people getting brand new boxes that don't work, and many Tivo people who don't like the box at all.


Wow, big news flash there RS4. You got us.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

RS4 said:


> "*I'm guessing it was this:
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=90975"*
> 
> Yes, that's the link. Check it out. Once again you'll find that while many people like the HR20, there are still people getting brand new boxes that don't work, and many Tivo people who don't like the box at all.


And no one here at TCF ever got a brand new TiVo, that had issues...

There will ALWAYS be people that don't like it...
Just like 8 years later, there are people that don't like TiVo.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

The following is long-standing Tivo Community Forum policy:

"Discussion of new Directv DVR models to be done off site.
Its been decided that since this is a TiVo forum, discussion of DVRs will be limited to models running TiVo software. Discussion of the new Directv DVR should be done on boards such as avsforum and dbstalk. Current threads on these models will soon be closed and referred to those sites."

Would you people mind complying? As a TCF member, I can only appeal to any sense you might have of courtesy. Thanks


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Redux said:


> The following is long-standing Tivo Community Forum policy:
> 
> "Discussion of new Directv DVR models to be done off site.
> Its been decided that since this is a TiVo forum, discussion of DVRs will be limited to models running TiVo software. Discussion of the new Directv DVR should be done on boards such as avsforum and dbstalk. Current threads on these models will soon be closed and referred to those sites."
> ...


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5311493&&#post5311493


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## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

Well said Earl. It seems some people here can't seem to get it through their heads that we are in fact talking about the HR10's future, or rather, the lack of it. Sure I can go over to DBStalk and find out everything I ever wanted to know about the HR20, (and I have been) but here on this forum I can get an idea of what people who are in the same boat as me are planning on doing. Are they going to switch to the HR20? When will they do it? If they have switched to the HR20, how do they like it?

BTW, I've done some price checking tonight and I now know for sure that I'll be sticking with Directv, for better or worse. Comcast wanted almost $30 a month more than what I'm paying now at Directv. Dish still has the same mess that they've always had when it comes to their DVR fees, and their HD-DVR still only supplies 1 ATSC tuner for OTA, a deal killer for me.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

kbohip said:


> Well said Earl. It seems some people here can't seem to get it through their heads that we are in fact talking about the HR10's future, or rather, the lack of it.


And yet, despite dumping on that supposed lack of future for so long, here it still is, working fine; and the non-Tivo alternative is still what it is (plus a few bug fixes and new bugs).

Sooner or later, I suppose, the death of the HR10-250 will turn out to have been an accurate prognostication. Sooner or later, I suppose, a politician or a DirecTV salesman will tell the truth. But life is short and I choose to deal wth what is at hand today. If DirecTV eventualy comes out with a useful product, I'm sure they'll still be willing to sell it to me six months from now or whenever, and, based on their track record, I'm in no hurry to put my faith in them right now.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

Sir_winealot said:


> Yeah, unlike so many of those that come here hawking the 'superiority' of the HR20.


See, here is where I see the difference between what I call an unbiased reveiw and the Tivo army's preachings. Most of the reveiws that I call unbiased will point out the good and the bad of both and then explain why they chose one over the other and why they think it's better. The Tivo lemmings here, only have one motto 'Tivo is the best and nothing can ever be better'. And most of those lemmings have never even tried the HR20.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

Mark Lopez said:


> See, here is where I see the difference between what I call an unbiased reveiw and the Tivo army's preachings. Most of the reveiws that I call unbiased will point out the good and the bad of both and then explain why they chose one over the other and why they think it's better. The Tivo lemmings here, only have one motto 'Tivo is the best and nothing can ever be better'. And most of those lemmings have never even tried the HR20.


I don't have a problem with an 'unbiased review.' But there are those that come here ...and I've said this before....that have the tendency towards proselytizing and stating opinion as fact.

And yes, there are those that will not open themselves up to anything but TiVo ...but to state that "most of those lemmings have never even tried the HR20" is a misstatement on your part IMO, as from what I've read the _majority_ of those who have an opinion have in fact, tried the HR20.


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

Redux said:


> There is nothing the tiniest bit funny about the death struggle between Tivo and DirecTV. The winner will control not just our entertainment modes, but our way of life, our very lives themselves.


Whiskey Tango Foxtrot


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

user.

Here is my history with TiVo and the HR20 and my unbiased opinion.

In 2001 my best friend got a Sony Tivo (D* model) and I thought is as a novelty but a better option than a VCR. In 2001 I moved in wife my girlfriend who is now my wife.

We had cable (AT&T/Comcast) and I hated it and we switched to D* in 2001. I really thought hard about a DVR but at the time the cost was very high. In 2003 my wife and I got married and some friends of our bought us a Hughes D* Tivo for a weeding present after I said I was finally going to breakdown and get one.

She thought is was a waste of money. After 2 weeks, BOTH of us could not imagine life without Tivo, especially during football season. We both lie to ride out bikes in the morning or head to the beach and then watch football all Saturday and Sunday. Tivo made this much easier. WE now could pause live TV, rewind, slow-mo, etc and out TV watching was forever changed. The Tivo interface was sooo easy to use and the software was flawless on that thing and still is.

In May of 2006 we bought a HDTV after are bedroom TV died. So we moved the 27" TV upstairs and bought a 42" Plasma. The SD picture sucked and I was very pissed with D*. A friend suggested putting up a Rat Shack antenna and get free HD.

WOW, now out TV PQ was soo nice and it was fun! BUT we had not Tivo for HD. During the NBA finals when the Heat won, we had no way to pause TV and stuff. We now a a year old baby and without Tivo watching TV and sports sucked and was impossible without Tivo. But the HR10-250 was still $799

So looked at Comcrap for HD. No Tivo so that sucked. I was not going to let my HD tv go to waste without Tivo. So i called CR @D* and told them what Comcrap was offering my for their serovce and crappy DVR.

They offered to buy the HR10 for $399 with a 2yr commit. I bit!

Now I had my beloved Tivo and HD! Life was awesome. 6 months later my HR10 just falt out died. It not play consistently, it had hiccups and what not. I also has a FULL drive on there. D* replaced it under the protection plan with another HR10.

2 months later the first 6.* updates came. Now I had Audio dropouts that were driving me crazy. D* offered me over $250 in credits for it after several calls and each time getting more for the hassles. 3 days later I had issues again.. So I get another shipped for fee. The Tivo would freeze up, FF x1 would not work. missed shows etc with 6.2 and 6.3. The thing would also freeze up!

After years with Tivo I was pissed! I new the HR20 was on the market and it sucked in the few months. It was not Tivo and I did not want one. So I called and they said a Hr10 would ship to me.

well 3 days later FedEx comes with a box. It an HR20. I called and said I did not want it! I was informed the HR10 were gone and I could only get a HR20. I said these suck from reading most stuff on dbstalk.

Sure they were PLENTY of very positive reviews. I was told I could keep the HR10. I said of course I own it. The CSR rep it was leased. I complained like crazy to a sup and it was finally changed to owned. But I was told I could keep it even if it was leased. I asked by getting the HR20 would I continue my commit or start over 2 yrs. I was told not new commit because it was a replacement under the protection plan. This was confirmed by 5 CSR and 3 Supers.

Well I set up the HR20 and right away it's not Tivo. The wife is pissed the Wishlist is gone. I am pissed about DLB. But I explained to here that this was the only DVR with D* and with all the new MPEG-4 channels coming we had no choice. Using the HR10 full-time was getting hard.

So after 2 weeks we BOTH come to love the HR20. The GUI is much, much differnt and not so "Mac" like, but it was easy to learn. After hrs and hrs on dbstalk, I learned a lot about the HR20. I now have it networked and with streaming music and picture they wife nor I really miss Tivo. I prefer the guide on Tivo much, much more, but the HR20 is faster overall. Sure things were a little more user friendly with the HR10, but once you understand a DVR the HR20 is very easy.

The HR20 does have some pitfalls for me as it's well noted feature wise. Some will be correcte4d and some I will never see. The PQ of SD is better on the HR20 then the HR10 as well as D* HD. OTA is the same as signal strength is better on the HR20. I prefer the scanning for OTA on the HR10 though.

I love the eSATA feature and makes adding a bigger drive easier. Well I get a SWM, the Tivo experience will be basically dead for me. ONLY because of the features the HR20 has.

Now would I want a MPEG-4 Tivo? I can't say. I would really want is the HR20 features, speed and PQ, with maybe aTivo GUI and features like DLB, Wishlist, SPM and they way to navigate. But the HR20 GUI is me is overall better once you get use to it. So I would take the Tivo GUI or HR20 GUI as long as it has every feature I want.

MY HR20 has been flawless recording and what not. I froze up once before the national update and since then Perfect! Now the Optical port died on the HR20 which cause me to lose al 6 Star Wars movies in HD.
But that's life. All electronics can break at anytime.

Overall I am very, very happy with the HR20 and I miss my Tivo, but at the same time I don't. Before the 6* updates, both machines are excellent DVR and it comes down to what features you want a the GUI your prefer.

With the new HD channels coming, I am happy I switched now!
Are you freaking Tivo geeks happy??

There is *MY *unbiased review! The HR10-250 will some day be gone for good. It's a shame though. It was a great machine years ago. With some tweaking the Tivo GUI could also get much better. BUT I want D* so I am happy with the HR20.

The Comcrap PQ and CS has improved in my area and the Series 3 price is now reasonable.. Will I switch for to use Tivo again, NO!

The HR20 is that good for me and D* will have much, much more HD and despite RF, it's up longer and more often thean cable here.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Great observations, with no diatribes one way or the other.

Have you also posted this on the DBSTalk forum?
http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=112
I think the members there would also like to read your unbiased opinion.


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

JimSpence said:


> Great observations, with no diatribes one way or the other.
> 
> Have you also posted this on the DBSTalk forum?
> http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=112
> I think the members there would also like to read your unbiased opinion.


Thanks, I think.

Maybe I should. This thread got me going so this is why I posted it here.


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## Citivas (Oct 12, 2000)

bonscott87 said:


> And again, *if you would just let these threads die they would*.


Ironic statement coming from you... Posts like yours only fuel the fire when YOU could have just let it die...


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Citivas said:


> Ironic statement coming from you... Posts like yours only fuel the fire when YOU could have just let it die...


Umm, lets see. I make a simple post directing the user *to another site* and it should have ended there. But then the attacks from the Tivo army start. Seems to me that the Tivo army can't let it be and let the thread die.

Kettle...here be the pot.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

I'd like to suggest that Scott or Earl set up three polls on the dbstalk forum to ask their viewers how they feel about the UI of Tivo vs the UI of HR10-250, assuming they were Tivo users before. 

I'd also like them to poll the group of new HR20 users - say someone who has installed an HR20 since May 1st to find out how many had problems, perhaps even did they have to return the box?

The third poll I'd suggest you ask would be - if Tivo had mpeg4, would you prefer a Tivo or the HR20?

I think if you presented these polls in a cluster, you'd get a good idea of if new HR20 boxes are having trouble and what folks think about the HR20 compared to the Tivo.

Thanks


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

I'd suggest that YOU post these polls there.


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## tfederov (Jul 6, 2003)

RS4 said:


> I'd like to suggest that Scott or Earl set up three polls on the dbstalk forum to ask their viewers how they feel about the UI of Tivo vs the UI of HR10-250, assuming they were Tivo users before.
> 
> I'd also like them to poll the group of new HR20 users - say someone who has installed an HR20 since May 1st to find out how many had problems, perhaps even did they have to return the box?
> 
> ...


Prior TiVo user here.

I think the UI of the TiVo is pretty close to the UI of the HR10-250 except the HR10-250 is a watered down version of what a stand alone Series 2 or Series 3 can do.

I've had zero issues on all four of my HR20s the oldest I've had since November. My newest HR20 has been here for a month.

As far as your poll #3, I'd stick with the HR20 because I'm already doing more with it (media bridge for example) than I could ever do with my HR10-250s. I know some of this stuff can be hacked, but why would I want to do that if the softare already supports it?


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

RS4 said:


> The third poll I'd suggest you ask would be - if Tivo had mpeg4, would you prefer a Tivo or the HR20?


I'm not sure if this one would be a good one. I think most Tivo users would prefer not to have to learn a new system (i.e. sticking with Tivo even if the other is superior). And I think most would assume a mpeg4 Tivo would be faster and have more features etc. So in other words you would be asking people to vote on a product that doesn't exist and that people could only speculate would work as they want.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

RS4 said:


> I'd like to suggest that Scott or Earl set up three polls on the dbstalk forum to ask their viewers how they feel about the UI of Tivo vs the UI of HR10-250, assuming they were Tivo users before.
> 
> I'd also like them to poll the group of new HR20 users - say someone who has installed an HR20 since May 1st to find out how many had problems, perhaps even did they have to return the box?
> 
> ...


Will you be running a similar poll here at TCF to inquire if new TiVo users have had problems? It's already been pointed out that some people have problems with their HR20s. Does this mean all HR20s are bad? No. Scanning posts here at TCF, it's also apparent that some people have problems with their HR10s and even SA TiVos, including the 1st generation S3 TiVo. Does this mean all TiVos are bad? No. So why do you persist in this crusade to paint the HR20 as the spawn of the devil?


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## Matt L (Aug 13, 2000)

bonscott87 said:


> Umm, lets see. I make a simple post directing the user *to another site* and it should have ended there. But then the attacks from the Tivo army start. Seems to me that the Tivo army can't let it be and let the thread die.
> 
> Kettle...here be the pot.


Then why bother coming here?


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

Matt L said:


> Then why bother coming here?


I think the way he (and others of his ilk) describe their presence here "simply directing people to another site" vs. what they actually say here in TCF, makes it clear _why_ they are here. They want to promote a non-Tivo product.

Fine. That is their bias.

I also have a bias. I like Tivo products.

The difference is I am on the Tivo Community Forum reading in a sub-forum for "Tivo Powered" HiDef DVRs. I am not coming into their home and marking it as my territory, as they are doing to us.

I have absolutely no objection to their proselytizing, I simply beg the TCF management to create an appropriate set of sub-forums for them to do their thing.

I have suggested happy hour/chit-chat type locations, essentially:

1. Tivo stinks in general, and here's why 
2. Tivo HiDef stinks, and here's why

I would actually read their stuff in such sub-forums. I just like stuff categorized so it makes sense to structure your reading.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Redux said:


> I think the way he (and others of his ilk) describe their presence here "simply directing people to another site" vs. what they actually say here in TCF, makes it clear _why_ they are here. They want to promote a non-Tivo product.
> 
> Fine. That is their bias.
> 
> ...


Let's try to sum this up ...

Some people here are making either false, unfounded, or ignorant claims about the HR20, so those posts have been followed-up by other people correcting those incorrect claims. I am one of those people who have posted follow-ups about the HR20, so in your eyes I must be one of bonscott's "ilk". So please point out exactly where I ever said that either TiVo stinks or TiVo HiDef stinks. You can't, because I haven't.

As far as creating sub-forums to discuss non-TiVo products, that will not happen, and it's already been explained why. This site is here to support TiVo and TiVo users. The discussions about the HR20, or any OTHER product (Media Center, cable DVRs, Dish DVRs, etc.) come about when current or potential TiVo users ask questions comparing TiVo to the other product. It's disingenuous to NOT answer questions about the HR20 as if TiVo exists in a vacuum without similar competing products out there.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

drew2k said:


> Let's try to sum this up ...
> 
> Some people here are making either false, unfounded, or ignorant claims about the HR20, so those posts have been followed-up by other people correcting those incorrect claims.


Kinda like Redux did here in regards to MPEG 4 HD locals through DIRECTV, despite the fact in another thread I pointed out a review of MPEG 4 PQ by a fairly impartial reviewer that graded it as 9.5 on a scale of 10.

I find it interesting that some folks have huge issues with other platforms being discussed here, but this thread about someone converting to the Dish Network DVR, a company that TiVo is still waiting for compensation from as the result of winning a lawsuit, remains unscathed. I guess because it's in the Happy Hour and Charlie W is considered one of their own, then that's acceptable.

IMO, anyone who feels TiVo is the only acceptable DVR solution for them, should absolutely follow through on that. Fact is that's not for the timid and even with the Comcast TiVo unit coming out, one is not going to find the kind of DVR deal, $5-$6/mo. covers all DVRs on your account, that DIRECTV offers. But, if someone really cares about TiVo surviving and thriving, they should step forward. As far as "proselytizing", I believe in letting the market decide, but as Drew said, if I see what I believe incorrect info being put forward, I'm not going to keep silent. That would defeat the purpose of a discussion board.

When I came here 6 years ago, TiVo served all the functions of a DVR I needed, but that's a long time technology-wise. Going HD changed everything and to me that's a higher priority than DVR. Do I still think TiVo is a quality DVR platform? Sure, but I've found other platforms that serve me better at this point in time. Does that mean I believe everyone should follow my lead? Emphatically no, it's what works for me, they need to decide what offers the most features they want. But, if you post info on a platform that I don't find to be true, TiVo included, I can't just let it go unchallenged.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

Redux said:


> The difference is I am on the Tivo Community Forum reading in a sub-forum for "Tivo Powered" HiDef DVRs.
> 
> I have absolutely no objection to their proselytizing, I simply beg the TCF management to create an appropriate set of sub-forums for them to do their thing.


You do realize that if people were not talking a bit about the HR20 here, there would hardly be any new discussions at all. Look at the main list of threads. Not much new going on other than the same old 'HDMI doesn't work' 'my TiVo won't boot', '6.x problems' etc. You would think the Tivo army would be glad to have some distraction from all of the problem threads.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

Mark Lopez said:


> You do realize that if people were not talking a bit about the HR20 here, there would hardly be any new discussions at all.


Most Tivo users are busy watching content?


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

RS4 said:


> <snip> I'd also like them to poll the group of new HR20 users - ...<snip>


Disgusting! I don't know about Scott, but I think Ed is married. And might I remind you of this being a 'family forum?'


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## Citivas (Oct 12, 2000)

bonscott87 said:


> Umm, lets see. I make a simple post directing the user *to another site* and it should have ended there. But then the attacks from the Tivo army start. Seems to me that the Tivo army can't let it be and let the thread die.
> 
> Kettle...here be the pot.


Do you really have so little perspective that you see yourself as a victim here?

The post I replied to from you was a full page essay blasting anyone who doesn't share your position. Even now, you throw around labels for anyone who disagrees with you like some banana republic dictator who thinks calling someone something makes it true -- "TiVo Army" -- and declare that yours should have been the official last word and that by definition any further discussion was illegitimate -- "...and it should have ended there." And it is apparently not fanning the fire of this thread for you to constantly reply to new posts with your opinion, but anyone who doesn't share your opinion "can't let it be and let the thread die."

Practice what you preach -- stop replying and let the thread die.

(BTW, how does my owning both the TiVo and the non-TiVo, saying I use both equally, saying there are some things definitely better about the HR20 and saying I hope D* will continue to improve the HR20 make me part of the "TiVo Army"? Because I said, on balance, that I like the TiVo more? It seems like by that logic, anyone who expresses anything positive about TiVo or negative about the HR20 is automatically a TiVo fanatic in your view. Doesn't that really make you an HR20 fanatic and apparently soldier? Personally, I don't think there is any Army on either side, but I'm just following your logic here...)


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Redux said:


> I think the way he (and others of his ilk) describe their presence here "simply directing people to another site" vs. what they actually say here in TCF, makes it clear _why_ they are here. They want to promote a non-Tivo product.


Hmmm, so simply directly people that ask about the HR20 to the proper forum...as asked by the mods...is promoting a non-Tivo product then I suggest that the mods themselves are promoting a non-Tivo product. Get real there guy.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Citivas said:


> Do you really have so little perspective that you see yourself as a victim here?
> 
> The post I replied to from you was a full page essay blasting anyone who doesn't share your position. Even now, you throw around labels for anyone who disagrees with you like some banana republic dictator who thinks calling someone something makes it true -- "TiVo Army" -- and declare that yours should have been the official last word and that by definition any further discussion was illegitimate -- "...and it should have ended there." And it is apparently not fanning the fire of this thread for you to constantly reply to new posts with your opinion, but anyone who doesn't share your opinion "can't let it be and let the thread die."
> 
> Practice what you preach -- stop replying and let the thread die.


Sure I posted a 1 page essay...AFTER getting attacked or FUD was being spread around. You just can't get over the simple fact that I just want to direct people with questions about another product to another forum...AS REQUESTED BY THE MODS...and then get attacked for it. I didn't realize that helping someone find a better place to discuss their question...once again AS REQUESTED...was saying that anybody with a differing opinion is wrong? So what would you like me to do? Just sit back and let the attack go unanswered?

And if the unwarranted attack wouldn't happen in the first place then the thread would die, no?

Or would you prefer that there be no response at all to a question and that person get no help at all? That's community for you.

Oh and where have I ever said that someone with a different opinion then mine is wrong? Good lord you guys just make stuff up as you go along. 
I could care less if the thread dies or not. It's the Tivo Army that wants them to die but they won't let them.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Matt L said:


> Then why bother coming here?


Well...

Some of us have spent YEARS here at TCF.. this is where most of started our "forum" lives....

And this is still a place where people turn for DIRECTV information, not just DirecTiVo information.

So I apologize, that I don't want to see what was once an amazing forum for information, turn into a place of dis-information.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

bonscott87 said:


> You just can't get over the simple fact that I just want to direct people with questions about another product to another forum...AS REQUESTED BY THE MODS...and then get attacked for it.


Sorry, I have to agree with Citivas here in his last post about "yours being the official last word." You've been pretty antagonistic with your posts ...and when the responses come in a likewise manner, then it's the "TiVo army" that won't let it die.



bonscott87 said:


> Sure I posted a 1 page essay...AFTER getting attacked or FUD was being spread around. You just can't get over the simple fact that I just want to direct people with questions about another product to another forum...AS REQUESTED BY THE MODS...and then get attacked for it. I didn't realize that helping someone find a better place to discuss their question...once again AS REQUESTED...was saying that anybody with a differing opinion is wrong? So what would you like me to do? Just sit back and let the attack go unanswered?
> 
> And if the unwarranted attack wouldn't happen in the first place then the thread would die, no?
> 
> ...


Actually, letting the "attack" as you call it....go unanswered,_ would_ probably be the smart thing to do,_ especially_ if you indeed deem it as such; just like responding to someone you believe is a 'troll.'

It's okay to be the official "welcome to the HR20 neighborhood....here's some muffins I baked!" welcome committee  , but responding in a like manner to those you feel have participated in an unwarranted attack seems a bit futile, no?


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Perhaps.

But I will not let FUD be spread around, about either Tivo or HR20 or any other product.


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## unixadm (Jan 1, 2001)

Enough flaming and bickering.

This is a TiVo forum. If you want to talk about the HR20, that can be done at dbstalk.


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