# Can you hook HD Cable TV into HDtivo?



## Sean Cusick (Feb 28, 2002)

I can get HD locals off of my cable modem line. I spliced it and found that I can get basic, as well as the HD locals. I don't feel like this is stealing, as wonderful Charter charges me an extra $10 for not having tv service with them. My question is: Can you hook cable up to your antenna input and get the HD thru it, like you would an off air antenna?

Thanks.


----------



## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

No.

And how do you know you're getting HD locals from cable? Do you have a QAM capable TV? Which one?

Or instead, are you just getting OTA reception from the physical cable, since it's acting like an antenna, and you tested through your ATSC capable TV? Much more likely.


----------



## Sean Cusick (Feb 28, 2002)

I have a sony Grand Vega LCD. It will display the HD content from cable without a HD box. I was just wondering if I ran it into the hdtivo, would it treat the HD signals the same as an antenna.


----------



## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Sean Cusick said:


> I have a sony Grand Vega LCD. It will display the HD content from cable without a HD box. I was just wondering if I ran it into the hdtivo, would it treat the HD signals the same as an antenna.


So do I. What model number? The newest one's I was aware of only had an ATSC tuner (OTA) and a cable-card tuner. Without the cable card, you can't view things like HD cable channels.

So you're saying you installed and activated a cable card? Or is it possible you're viewing OTA channels, and it's just using the physical cable as an antenna?


----------



## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

Sean Cusick said:


> I can get HD locals off of my cable modem line. I spliced it and found that I can get basic, as well as the HD locals. I don't feel like this is stealing, as wonderful Charter charges me an extra $10 for not having tv service with them.


Some people might call it "Passive Cable Theft".


Sean Cusick said:


> It will display the HD content from cable without a HD box. I was just wondering if I ran it into the hdtivo, would it treat the HD signals the same as an antenna.


No.

OTA uses 8VSB modulation. Your HDTivo has an 8VSB demodulator to recieve those signals.

Digital cable (including HD channels) use QAM modulation. HDTivos do not have a QAM demodulator to recieve those signals.


----------



## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

AbMagFab said:


> Without the cable card, you can't view things like HD cable channels.


Without the CableCard you can view all unencrypted digital cable channels and all unscrambled analog channels.

Via FCC regulations, HD locals are supposed to be carried unencrypted (and usually are) ... hence the ability to pick up HD locals w/o the CableCard (but not extended / encrypted HD channels like ESPN-HD, HBO-HD, etc.)


----------



## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

dt_dc said:


> Without the CableCard you can view all unencrypted digital cable channels and all unscrambled analog channels.
> 
> Via FCC regulations, HD locals are supposed to be carried unencrypted (and usually are) ... hence the ability to pick up HD locals w/o the CableCard (but not extended / encrypted HD channels like ESPN-HD, HBO-HD, etc.)


You sure these TV's have a QAM tuner, outside of the cable card capabilities? Nothing in the specs.


----------



## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

AbMagFab said:


> You sure these TV's have a QAM tuner, outside of the cable card capabilities? Nothing in the specs.


Every CableCard TV I've played with can get unencrypted QAM w/o a CableCard. This includes a Grand Wega (KDF-50WE655). Actually ... looking in the manual ...


> A security card provided by your cable operator is required to view encrypted digital programming.
> 
> This television also includes a QAM demodulator which should allow you to receive unscrambled digital cable television programming via subscription service to a cable service provider.


http://esupport.sony.com/perl/model-documents.pl?mdl=KDF50WE655

It's certainly possible some TVs can't. You'd want to look into the details on a specific TV if this feature is important to you.

However, a CableCard is just a crypto chip on a card. The QAM tuner / MPEG decoder and everything else required to get digital cable channels is all in the TV. The only thing the card does is unencrypt encrypted channels. If a manufacturer is making a CableCard TV, there is absolutely no extra costs or hardware or anything additional they need to do in order to get unencrypted QAM. Frankly, they all use the same SoC chipsets so a manufacturer would probably have to do additional work to DISABLE unencrypted QAM reception.


----------



## MNTivoGuy (Oct 21, 2002)

dt_dc said:


> Without the CableCard you can view all unencrypted digital cable channels and all unscrambled analog channels.
> 
> Via FCC regulations, HD locals are supposed to be carried unencrypted (and usually are) ... hence the ability to pick up HD locals w/o the CableCard (but not extended / encrypted HD channels like ESPN-HD, HBO-HD, etc.)


I don't get this. What do you plug the coax cable "out" into to get HD locals if not a cable box and than a digital out to component/DVI/HDMI.


----------



## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

MNTivoGuy said:


> I don't get this. What do you plug the coax cable "out" into to get HD locals if not a cable box and than a digital out to component/DVI/HDMI.


You plug the coax straight from the wall into the TV.

If someone can make a "box" that takes the coax in ... and then feeds an HD signal to a TV via component/DVI/HDMI ... they can just as easily take everything in the "box" ... stick it in a TV ... and make a TV that can just take coax in and doesn't need the external "box" ...


----------



## Sean Cusick (Feb 28, 2002)

On my Sony Grand Vega 55" I just hooked the cable into the uhf/vhf and like people are now stating, can pick up all of the local HD that charter has on. I do not have a cable card. I only wish that I had known this before putting a new anttena on the roof. But I guess from what people are stating, the tivo would not have picked them up, so I guess it is worth it. I guess at least I have a back up source of HD if I run into a off air problem.


----------



## MNTivoGuy (Oct 21, 2002)

Do I need a TV with an ASTC tuner to try this? Mine I think has an NSTC tuner (sony 34xbr910)


----------



## feldon23 (Mar 13, 2001)

dt_dc said:


> Via FCC regulations, HD locals are supposed to be carried unencrypted (and usually are) ... hence the ability to pick up HD locals w/o the CableCard (but not extended / encrypted HD channels like ESPN-HD, HBO-HD, etc.)


When did that pass?

HD locals are QAM in 99% of cable markets.


----------



## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

MNTivoGuy said:


> Do I need a TV with an ASTC tuner to try this? Mine I think has an NSTC tuner (sony 34xbr910)


No ... to get the HD locals from your cable company you need a QAM tuner. Which, AFAIK the 34XBR910 does NOT have.

With an NTSC tuner ... you'd just get any unscrambled analog channels your cable company sends.

An "ATSC tuner" (aka, OTA digital) includes an 8VSB demodulator ... same as what the HDTivo uses to get OTA digital channels. See comments above. Cable companies don't (typically) use 8VSB. There used to be a very very few ... but they are all switching over to QAM.

A "QAM tuner" lets you get unencrypted digital channels. There are a few TVs with QAM tuners ... also a few STBs (like the LST-3410A).

A "Digital Cable Ready", "CableCard compatable" (whatever you want to call it) includes a QAM tuner so it can get digital cable channels. But it also allows you to use a card from your cable company to get encrypted digital channels.


----------



## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

feldon23 said:


> When did that pass?


A long long time ago ...

Basically, it's just an application of long-standing FCC regs:
1) all OTA signals must be on 'basic tier'
2) 'basic tier' may not be scrambled nor encrypted

This was always the case with analog. The FCC didn't change things for digital. Several FCC orders and clarifications seem to confirm that the above applies to digital as well ...

See the following post for exact references:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=2201139&&#post2201139


----------



## whoodoggie (Oct 1, 2003)

Much to my excitement,a couple of weeks ago my Sony 55WF655 did the same thing. Which is kinda nice, since I can't get CBS or PBS HD locals from DTV....but now I do!


----------



## whoodoggie (Oct 1, 2003)

....although, the TV tuner sometimes registers those channels as 'No Signal', and I have to rescan the channels, or sometimes it just comes back on their own....anyone else have this problem?


----------



## Pearhead (Nov 27, 2005)

Sean Cusick said:


> I have a sony Grand Vega LCD. ..........


Not real sure how I stumbled across this thread but I'm glad I did. I bought a Sony KDF42WE655 about a year ago and set it up to use an OTA antenna for HD. A $20 Silver Sensor mounted to the back of my dish. Works great although my CBS station drops in an out occationally as it's right on the fringe of the directional sweet spot.

I was just about to buy a multi-directional antenna to put that issue to bed when I found this bit of great info about the QAM tuner in my TV. I'm required to pay for basic cable for my internet connection but only use it for a deck TV. I was aware of the FCC reg regarding basic cable, but I never let the Sony search the cable spectrum since I was not aware that it applied to ALL OTA signals. Coo......I just saved about $40 bucks and don't have to venture back on the roof.

In the ironic file is the OP was made on my birthday...so even though I didn't find this until now...I'm celebrating all over again. Cheers!

*Thanks for the happenstance heads up Sean.*


----------



## Pearhead (Nov 27, 2005)

whoodoggie said:


> ....although, the TV tuner sometimes registers those channels as 'No Signal', and I have to rescan the channels, or sometimes it just comes back on their own....anyone else have this problem?


When my TV scanned the cable, it found 149 digital channels...with 4 "shown" (networks). I assume the rest are scrambled or just not used currently. Odd deal is that some of the "sub channels" I recieve just fine OTA are "no signal" through the cable connection. No biggie as most of the current additional bandwith is only used for local weather/radar.

As to your specific problem, yes I did notice some quirky behavior when setting up. Depending on what mode (favorites/PnP) I'm in, some channels mysteriously appear in my lineup. I went back an unchecked and so far alls been well. I think it has something to do with the Sony's limitation on PnPing HD signals in the right "window". It's logic gets scrambled....me thinks it's time for a patch. 

On a side note regarding the FCC deal. OTA.... our local PBS station has an HD feed with 5 subs. But for some reason they are not available via my cable connection. Their channel ID's show up in the scan, but they have "no signal". Maybe just an oversight by the cable company cause it looks like they've scrambled all the PBS stations.


----------

