# Any good standalone dvrs out there?



## habibrobert (Nov 16, 2012)

Hello,

I realize that I probably shouldn't post this on here, since this is a Tivo discussion forum, but if you could point me in the right direction, I will be on my way and out of your hair! 

I was wondering if anyone knows of any good stand alone DVR brands? My only problem with Tivo is that I cannot transfer all of my recordings to my computer. Since there is really no way around this, I've decided to see if there are any DVRs out there that do not have this restriction?

I've heard about a DVR company called Moxi, but after looking at their web page, it seems as if their devices do not connect to the computer in the same way that Tivo does. Of course, please correct me if I misunderstood.

So that does seem like a good option. I've googled stand alone DVRs and what I mostly found where DVR systems for security camera systems. 

There has got to be a HD stand alone DVR out there that allows you to transfer all of your recordings to the computer. Does anyone know what the name of the brand is?

Many Thanks, and once again sorry for posting this question on there, I really don't know where else to post.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

habibrobert said:


> Hello,
> 
> I realize that I probably shouldn't post this on here, since this is a Tivo discussion forum, but if you could point me in the right direction, I will be on my way and out of your hair!
> 
> ...


Except MS Media Center (not an easy setup or operation as TiVo) is the only option i know of as all DVRs must use cable cards unless you are only using OTA than coping would not be any problem with any TiVo.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Well, there's always a Series 2 TiVo. The basic way is to use the analog hole - so any DVR that captures the component output of a set top box would naturally strip off the copy protection.

Another method is to get a capture card that can use a set top box like an Hauppage HD-PVR and Windows Media Center - the files record straight to the computer. You don't want the cablecard tuner as WMC will DRM-protect it in that case.

NB: You can always use the HD-PVR to transfer recordings to the PC, even without WMC.

edit: As you can't use a cablecard solution, you need to use a settop box to decode your digital cable channel. 

Though, if you possibly can get it working, firewire from your cablebox might work..


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

If you cannot transfer some or all of the recordings, its mainly the cable card that is setting the copy protection flags on authority from the cable company.

If you can add on an antenna, since there is no copy protection, you can transfer all you want. On the other hand, OTA may not supply the channels you wanted.


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## igirl (Feb 5, 2011)

> My only problem with Tivo is that I cannot transfer all of my recordings to my computer.


I don't understand this - there are several ways to transfer recordings to computer from TiVo. Tivo Transfer, iTivo, KMTTG to name just a few.

But assuming none of these things exist. Way not just go to a full computer based DVR system instead like EyeTV?


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

ThAbtO said:


> If you cannot transfer some or all of the recordings, its mainly the cable card that is setting the copy protection flags on authority from the cable company.
> 
> If you can add on an antenna, since there is no copy protection, you can transfer all you want. On the other hand, OTA may not supply the channels you wanted.


I thought the cable company wasn't allowed to put copy protection on the Broadcast channels.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

Buy a hacked Series3 unit and transfer anything you want. Or record from OTA channels.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

habibrobert said:


> I was wondering if anyone knows of any good stand alone DVR brands?


Yeah, TiVo.



habibrobert said:


> My only problem with Tivo is that I cannot transfer all of my recordings to my computer. Since there is really no way around this, I've decided to see if there are any DVRs out there that do not have this restriction?


I'm afraid you are not being entirely clear.

1. Do you currently own a TiVo, and if so, what model?
2. Is this statement based upon your own experience, or what you have read or been told?
3. Who is your CATV provider?

It sounds like you are talking about copy protected digital video streams from a CATV provider. Copy protection of digital video streams (known as CCI) is placed on some number of non-OTA broadcast channels by many CATV providers. Some only protect a few channels, while others set the CCI byte on everything they legally can.

Every CableLabs certified DVR must comply with their requirements and refuse to allow copying to any other device any video whose CCI byte is greater than 0x00. If the device is not CableLabs certified, then no CATV company in the U.S. will allow it to be attached to their system or to have a CableCard installed. Thus, it would make no sense for any manufacturer to build a DVR that would ignore the CCI byte.

Modifying a Series III class TiVo (not a Premiere) can circumvent this restriction. I don't know about the Moxi, but they are belly up (in terms of a consumer DVR, anyway), in any case.



habibrobert said:


> There has got to be a HD stand alone DVR out there that allows you to transfer all of your recordings to the computer. Does anyone know what the name of the brand is?


Why would there have to be? CableLabs regs have no force of law, but since no CATV system will allow a DVR to be attached to the cable or allow the CableCard to be installed, what would be the point of trying to manufacture one?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

habibrobert said:


> There has got to be a HD stand alone DVR out there that allows you to transfer all of your recordings to the computer.


There really doesn't have to be, and AFAIK, there isn't (unless maybe you count an OTA-only device).

What you can do, though, is to get a video capture device for your computer that will allow you to grab the analog or HDMI output from the TiVo, and reencode it. This inevitably loses some quality, but maybe not that much, and nowadays you can do this in HD. (Disclaimer: I personally have not used this type of capture device since the bad old days of analog SD.)


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## habibrobert (Nov 16, 2012)

Irhorer,

Thanks very much for your post. 

I have a TV Series 4. And my cable provider is Comcast. And yes, I am having a great deal of trouble with CCI. I feel like I can't transfer any shows to my computer! 

I would consider getting a hacked Tivo three, but the thing is I don't no where to look for one. Ebay doesn't seem to have one, at least not recently. 

I've been doing some readings on the internet lately about PROM modifications on the Tivo Series 3 (I have been told that it is impossible on the series 4), it seems quite complicated for someone who has no background in software and extensive soldering skills. But I know there are people out there who do it for the average person, I've emailed two of them, Omikron, and cartouchbea. Neither have replied to me yet. I don't know if they are swamped with their work, or if they are no longer offering their services. If there are other people who offer this type of service, please refer me to them!

Furthermore, it seems as if there just getting the PROM hack is just half the battle. Then, you need to deal with the software modifications which will allow you to freely extract movies and shows onto your computer. 

If I'm lucky, I could get the PROM soldered on with a few months of practice, but the software part, I just am clueless. There really is no clear explanation out there on the forums on how to do get the extraction after the PROM modification has been made. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I really haven't found any information on anything you can do after you have modified the TIVO. 

I suppose that most of the people who are writing in these forums are much more fluent in the TIVO language than I and therefore some of my concerns are so fundamental that they are already implied by everyone out there.

If I had the time to go out there and learn how the TIVO software works, I would do it in a heartbeat. I just would like some help on what you do after the TIVO hack has been done and if someone does that for the average newbie hacker? I know that we should all learn how to do it ourselves because it takes away from the joy of it all if someone else did it for us (and I truly believe that). But I am software challenged and just don't know what else to do!


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

habibrobert said:


> Irhorer


That is lrhorer, if you please, not irhorer.



habibrobert said:


> I have a TV Series 4. And my cable provider is Comcast. And yes, I am having a great deal of trouble with CCI. I feel like I can't transfer any shows to my computer!


That is one reason, among several, why I do not recommend purchasing the Premiere line of TiVos. There is no work-around. That said, Comcast is not anywhere nearly as aggressive as Time Warner or Brighthouse in setting the CCI byte.



habibrobert said:


> I would consider getting a hacked Tivo three, but the thing is I don't no where to look for one. Ebay doesn't seem to have one, at least not recently.


Well, yeah, few people want to get rid of them. I think if you want one you will need to buy an un-modified S3 class box and modify it.



habibrobert said:


> I've been doing some readings on the internet lately about PROM modifications on the Tivo Series 3 (I have been told that it is impossible on the series 4)


It is, and you need to take this to the "other" forum.



habibrobert said:


> If I'm lucky, I could get the PROM soldered on with a few months of practice


It does not take months to learn to solder. Removing a soldered component is a bit more difficult, but there are methods for that, too. Chipquik is one solution. It does take a little practice, though.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Chances are the programming you're looking to copy will be available to stream on line from sources like neflix, amazon, hulu or other web sites. It doesn't make sense to copy programming to your computer, when you could just stream them on demand.


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## habibrobert (Nov 16, 2012)

Well guys, thanks for all the great information! I really appreciate your guidance and I will try and see if I can figure out how this all works. Thanks again!


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## lillevig (Dec 7, 2010)

igirl said:


> I don't understand this - there are several ways to transfer recordings to computer from TiVo. Tivo Transfer, iTivo, KMTTG to name just a few.
> 
> But assuming none of these things exist. Way not just go to a full computer based DVR system instead like EyeTV?


The problem is not with the SW availability it's with the CCI byte being set to 0x02 on channels so that you cannot copy the shows from the Tivo. The Premiere boxes at least let you stream between them even with copy protected shows. Transfers won't work, however. Generally, this is only a problem with digital (SD or HD) channels and not the analog versions. In my case, the HD versions of a few channels (like SyFy and USA) mysteriously got set for copy protection but the digital SD versions and the analog SD versions are not copy protected.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

The OP is asking if there is a TiVo like DVR that will use cable cards to get all the HD cable channels the OP is paying for, but will not have any copy protection, the answer is a simple *no*, we can tell him all the reasons in the world why the answer is no but that will not give the OP what he wants, at this point he can't get what he wants and probably will never get what he wants, as far as i know no hacker has broken the digital code that cable co.s use so no one could even purchase a black digital cable box that can all the HD cable stations for free. (in the old analog days such black boxes were sold and did work)


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

lessd said:


> The OP is asking if there is a TiVo like DVR that will use cable cards to get all the HD cable channels the OP is paying for, but will not have any copy protection, the answer is a simple *no*, we can tell him all the reasons in the world why the answer is no but that will not give the OP what he wants


Not quite true. There is no commercially available, off-the-shelf unit that can do it. That is not the same as saying no such unit exists.



lessd said:


> at this point he can't get what he wants and probably will never get what he wants


Not true at all.



lessd said:


> as far as i know no hacker has broken the digital code that cable co.s use so no one could even purchase a black digital cable box that can all the HD cable stations for free. (in the old analog days such black boxes were sold and did work)


True, but not relevant. He is not attempting to steal CATV programming.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

lrhorer said:


> Not quite true. There is no commercially available, off-the-shelf unit that can do it. That is not the same as saying no such unit exists.
> 
> If your are talking non consumer type of recording units, I agree that commercial type DVR exist that a TV studio may use at big $$$.
> 
> ...


OK


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

lessd said:


> OK


I think you messed up your quotes. You have your text looking as if it was quoted from me. I would appreciate if you would fix it.

No I am not talking about professional recording gear. (It probbably does not employ CableCards, and is not attached to a CATV company's consumer feed.) I am saying there is no box the OP can go to a BestBuy and purchase to use right off the shelf, without modification.

A box that does what the OP wants is perfectly feasible. I have three of them, and they did not require unlimited $$. They are all three TiVos. The fourth TiVo I have does not belong to me, and in any case is a Premiere, so it cannot.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

shwru980r said:


> Chances are the programming you're looking to copy will be available to stream on line from sources like neflix, amazon, hulu or other web sites. It doesn't make sense to copy programming to your computer, when you could just stream them on demand.


Oh, yes, it does. First of all, the quality of streaming content is generally quite poor. Secondly, depending upon one's broadband provider, the connection may be quite poor. In many people's case, they don't even have broadband, or only have a few hundred K of bandwidth available. Thirdly, many titles are *NOT* available via streaming. Indeed, almost none of the titles in which I would be interested in downloading are available, and certainly not in HD, and definitely not in acceptable quality.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I could be smeeking here, but there is an HD capture card called the HDPVR which you can install in a HTPC and use to capture from an HD cable box via analog, component, outputs. I'm pretty sure it bypasses all of the copy protection issues. We have lots of Canadian users that use them because they have no equivalent to CableCARD up there. 

Dan


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

lrhorer said:


> Oh, yes, it does. First of all, the quality of streaming content is generally quite poor.


Netflix alone has over 30 million streaming subscribers. I think the quality must be acceptable to a large number of people.



lrhorer said:


> Secondly, depending upon one's broadband provider, the connection may be quite poor. In many people's case, they don't even have broadband, or only have a few hundred K of bandwidth available.


habibrobert stated that he his provider was comcast. I assumed he had broadband. I think many people on this forum have broadband.



lrhorer said:


> Thirdly, many titles are *NOT* available via streaming. Indeed, almost none of the titles in which I would be interested in downloading are available, and certainly not in HD, and definitely not in acceptable quality.


I didn't say that every single show could be found online, but chances are that most of the shows that the OP was looking to copy could be found.

I think the fact that almost most of the titles that you are interested in are either unavaliable or unacceptable quality online would indicate that your viewing preferences are not representative of what most people watch.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

shwru980r said:


> Netflix alone has over 30 million streaming subscribers. I think the quality must be acceptable to a large number of people.


Probably the same crowd that believes "reality" TV is quality TV. In today's culture, convenience will always win out over quality. People would rather have something now rather than wait for something better. It's more a case of it being immediately available rather than acceptable.

What's ironic about Netflix streaming is that they only stream older content. For newer releases you have to get it on either DVD or Blu-Ray, but that requires waiting for the mailman to deliver it. The world will go to hell in a handbasket if you get put on a waiting list.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

shwru980r said:


> Netflix alone has over 30 million streaming subscribers. I think the quality must be acceptable to a large number of people.


The exact same thing can be said for McDonalds. They've served billions of customers.



shwru980r said:


> habibrobert stated that he his provider was comcast. I assumed he had broadband.


Yes, you did. It may not be warranted. For many people, it is not.



shwru980r said:


> I think many people on this forum have broadband.


Yes, of course, including me. That doesn't necessarily mean his broadband connection, if he has one, is up to par for strreaming HD video.



shwru980r said:


> I didn't say that every single show could be found online, but chances are that most of the shows that the OP was looking to copy could be found.


Again, that is an assumption.



shwru980r said:


> I think the fact that almost most of the titles that you are interested in are either unavaliable or unacceptable quality online would indicate that your viewing preferences are not representative of what most people watch.


That may be true, but I know for a fact I am not alone in this respect, and I would not assume the OP is either of a like mind or a dissimilar one. In addition, that is not quite what I said. I said, "*That I do not already have*".

The bottom line is, you made the following blanket statement:



shwru980r said:


> It doesn't make sense to copy programming to your computer, when you could just stream them on demand.


And I simply pointed out it most certainly does make sense to do so, for quite a few reasons. You can see about 1800 of them right here.

Oh, and BTW, another big one that I forgot to mention. If I have NetFlix service, and I discontinue it, all those thousands of titles (most of which in which I have no interest) suddenly evaporate. Not so for a personal library.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

lrhorer said:


> T
> And I simply pointed out it most certainly does make sense to do so, for quite a few reasons. You can see about 1800 of them right here.
> 
> Oh, and BTW, another big one that I forgot to mention. If I have NetFlix service, and I discontinue it, all those thousands of titles (most of which in which I have no interest) suddenly evaporate. Not so for a personal library.


Maintaining the availability of obscure titles isn't as simple as copying them to your computer, as you have suggested, because the hard drive will eventually fail on a computer. You need to build an in home data center, which requires time, money and expertise. And like a netflix subscription, as soon as you stop investing in the maintenance of your in home network, you run the risk of losing some or all of your video library. A significant amount of work is required here and it is just so you can watch TV.Even after you've done all this work, you're still faced with the possibility that the show is copy protected, so you need a hacked Tivo to circumvent the copy protection.

I think the OP should pursue streaming first.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

shwru980r said:


> Maintaining the availability of obscure titles isn't as simple as copying them to your computer, as you have suggested, because the hard drive will eventually fail on a computer. You need to build an in home data center, which requires time, money and expertise. And like a netflix subscription, as soon as you stop investing in the maintenance of your in home network, you run the risk of losing some or all of your video library. A significant amount of work is required here and it is just so you can watch TV.Even after you've done all this work, you're still faced with the possibility that the show is copy protected, so you need a hacked Tivo to circumvent the copy protection.
> 
> I think the OP should pursue streaming first.


I assume that you're referring to a media server. If so, it requires no more expertise to build and configure than any Windows PC. I have an unRAID server that boots from a flash drive, no installation necessary other than setting the BIOS to boot from a USB device. The server is configured via a web interface from any PC on the network. It's actually quite simple to set up and use. There are other similar software solutions available from FlexRAID and SnapRAID or just plain Windows Home Server. Most, if not all, of these solutions offer parity backup that will rebuild your data if a drive fails. FlexRAID allows you to configure multiple parity drives for extra added protection.

Streaming sucks in general. The quality just doesn't stack up against OTA broadcasts or Blu-Ray and you're lucky if you get anything more than stereo audio. I'd never recommend streaming to anyone I actually liked.

I rent Blu-Rays and DVDs from Netflix, rip them to my server with the HD audio intact, as applicable, and play them when I have time. Once viewed, they're deleted, not only because I don't own them, but also because I rarely have the time to watch a movie a 2nd time. It's my own "On-Demand" library consisting of "time-shifted" rental movies.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

mr.unnatural said:


> I assume that you're referring to a media server. If so, it requires no more expertise to build and configure than any Windows PC. I have an unRAID server that boots from a flash drive, no installation necessary other than setting the BIOS to boot from a USB device. The server is configured via a web interface from any PC on the network. It's actually quite simple to set up and use. There are other similar software solutions available from FlexRAID and SnapRAID or just plain Windows Home Server. Most, if not all, of these solutions offer parity backup that will rebuild your data if a drive fails. FlexRAID allows you to configure multiple parity drives for extra added protection.
> 
> Streaming sucks in general. The quality just doesn't stack up against OTA broadcasts or Blu-Ray and you're lucky if you get anything more than stereo audio. I'd never recommend streaming to anyone I actually liked.
> 
> I rent Blu-Rays and DVDs from Netflix, rip them to my server with the HD audio intact, as applicable, and play them when I have time. Once viewed, they're deleted, not only because I don't own them, but also because I rarely have the time to watch a movie a 2nd time. It's my own "On-Demand" library consisting of "time-shifted" rental movies.


Not that I care, BUT making a copy of a rented movie even if you only watch it once later and then delete it, is still illegal.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

shwru980r said:


> Maintaining the availability of obscure titles isn't as simple as copying them to your computer, as you have suggested


I never mentioned anything about simplicity or complexity. I also never said anything about "obscure". Perhaps two or three hundred of the titles I have are among the 500 most popular films of all time. Casablanca, Harry Potter, The Lord of the Rings, The Sound of Music, The Wizard of Oz, Star Wars, and several hundred others are anything but "obscure".



shwru980r said:


> because the hard drive will eventually fail on a computer.


Yeah, I've had several fail. 'Never lost any data. (Not due to a hard drive failure, anyway.)



shwru980r said:


> You need to build an in home data center


That is an exaggeration. A PC with a RAID1 or RAID5 array will work. Indeed, at the outset, even just a PC with a single large hard drive may suffice. One can easily grow from there, adding both additional storage and redundancy as time goes by. I started out with a 4 spindle RAID1 + 0 array built from 160G drives, long before I was saving videos on the LAN. Some people even use laptops.



shwru980r said:


> which requires time


Not much, really.



shwru980r said:


> money


Surely, but what doesn't? A NetFlix subscription at a minimum costs just south of $3000 for a 30 year subsciption, or nearly $6500 if one has a minimal (one DVD / BRD) DVD subscription. My servers cost a bit more than the former, but nowhere near the latter.



shwru980r said:


> and expertise.


Not so much. Even if so, said experience is a valid asset for any person. Obtaining it has positive implications far beyond the ability to manage a video library.



shwru980r said:


> And like a netflix subscription, as soon as you stop investing in the maintenance of your in home network, you run the risk of losing some or all of your video library.


Not at all. A proper backup strategy is essential for any important data. Every show (or any other file) more than a day old is copied onto the backup server with absolutely no intervention on my part, and any show more than about a month old is stored on one of several hard drives kept in a vault away from my house. The entire house could burn to the ground, and very little data would be lost. Maintenance of the online storage amounts to adding a hard drive every few months to expand capacity and upgrading the OS every couple of years. The vault requires no maintenance whatsoever.

Even if it were asignificant risk, it is only a risk. Cancelling one's NetFLix sub means the library is gone, completely and immediately.


shwru980r said:


> A significant amount of work is required here


A moderate amount of work is required to maintain a pair of systems that control my HVAC systems - saving me well over $2000 a year, handle my finances such as they are, manage my telephone system, wake me in the morning, provide Caller ID at every workstation, allow me to manage remote LAN systems for my 3 siblings, control 3 of my 4 TiVos, maintain network time for all the systems on the LAN, hold all of the software I have downloaded or purchased along with their licenses, keep manuals of all the major appliances and electronic equipment I own, mange IP addresses and connectivity for all the devices on the LAN, control my Christmas tree lights, and control and maintain all the UPS systems throughout the house. Oh, yeah, and they allow me to watch the movies and series I want immdeiately whenever I want. Managing the latter is mostly not separate from manaiging the rest, other than capturing cover art for the shows from the web and eliminating commercials.



shwru980r said:


> and it is just so you can watch TV.


It isn't "just" anything, but one of the most important advantages is I get to watch what I want, when I want, not what and when sonmeone else decides I should.



shwru980r said:


> Even after you've done all this work, you're still faced with the possibility that the show is copy protected, so you need a hacked Tivo to circumvent the copy protection.


Not even a little bit. The TiVos are hacked because without it, they are missing many of the TiVo's most important capabilities, even after discounting copy protection. Indeed, my current CATV provider only protects two channels, and I only subscribe to one of those channels, but even if they protected none, I still would hack all of the Series III TiVos.

To put it another way, hacking comes first, then saving to an external PC.



shwru980r said:


> I think the OP should pursue streaming first.


I think he should do whatever he wants, but I certainly would never even consider it. No way, no how.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

lessd said:


> Not that I care, BUT making a copy of a rented movie even if you only watch it once later and then delete it, is still illegal.


Technically, yes, but in practical terms, it is not really, or at least not enforcably so. (One just has to love all the unenforcable laws on the books.)The copyright owners would have to sue and subpoena the evidence, and since he is deleting all evidence of the actions as he goes, they would be hard pressed to actually obtain any evidence. I think it would be essentially impossible to obtain a search warrant, and even then they would pretty much have to catch him red-handed.

That said, I have never done this myself. OTOH, I have never rented a BRD at all, and only very rarely ever rented a DVD.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

lessd said:


> Not that I care, BUT making a copy of a rented movie even if you only watch it once later and then delete it, is still illegal.


True, not that I care that you or anyone else cares. The intent of the law is based on illegal distribution and the pirating of intellectual property and not so much how you decide to watch something you legally rented or purchased. As long as I don't distribute it outside the confines of my own home, the law will be blind to my actions. The Feds have no way to monitor how I watch a movie nor would they be so inclined as to waste resources on doing so. As lrhorer stated, it's an unenforcable law in this context. It may be illegal by the letter of the law, but nobody really cares as long as I keep it to myself. I'm doing nothing to infringe on anyone's copyrights or steal intellectual property. The movie arrives in my mailbox and leaves the next day via the same carrier. The intellectual property does not leave my home by any other means nor is it shared with anyone outside my household. This should be more than sufficient to satisfy the intent of the law.

People should be more concerned about the thievery taking place on Capital Hill than someone time-shifting a rental movie with no intent to distribute it. The A-holes that wrote the law are bigger crooks than I'll ever be, not that it makes it right. At least I admit that what I do is illegal.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

mr.unnatural said:


> The intent of the law is based on illegal distribution and the pirating of intellectual property and not so much how you decide to watch something you legally rented or purchased.


Yeah, maybe. I'm inclined to think it is more based upon a bunch of paranoid fools having way too much money on their hands and access to a corrupt bunch of idiots who get off tinkering with the law.



mr.unnatural said:


> The Feds have no way to monitor how I watch a movie nor would they be so inclined as to waste resources on doing so.


Even if they did have a way to monitor you or an inclination to waste resources, I think the complaint or suit would have to come from the copyright owner.



mr.unnatural said:


> I'm doing nothing to infringe on anyone's copyrights or steal intellectual property.


Well, the MPAA thinks you are. OTOH, they think you are stealing their intellectual property if you don't pay for tickets at the movie theater, leave without watching the movie, go out and buy two copies of the film on DVD, toss them in the shredder on the way out, go home, rent a streaming copy, and shut off the TV just as the streaming starts.



mr.unnatural said:


> People should be more concerned about the thievery taking place on Capital Hill than someone time-shifting a rental movie with no intent to distribute it.


Oh, please, trust me, I am. At worst you deserve a literal, gentle slap on the wrist.



mr.unnatural said:


> The A-holes that wrote the law are bigger crooks than I'll ever be, not that it makes it right.


If you ask me, they should all be strung up by their genitalia in public, naked, in early winter. 'Cut them down in the fall.


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