# HDMI-CEC question: Can an AVR reliably turn on a TV - or vice versa?



## AZrob (Mar 31, 2002)

I am in the process of upgrading my system, by getting a SONY 950G LCD tv. I am considering buying a new AVR, specifically a Yamaha RX-V685. The plan is to connect both the Tivo and the TV to the AVR via HDMI. My Tivo is a Roamio Pro.

The question is: using the latest TE4 UI via a Roamio VOX-enabled remote, can I program it such that it turns on either the TV or the AVR ONLY, and have the activated device power-on the other one? 

I've had so much trouble getting my old system to synch, even while using a powerful and highly programmed MX-850 Universal remote, that I was hoping to bypass power-on synch issues without buying a new universal remote.

Thanks in advance,
Rob


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Once you have determined the correct code that works for power, volume and mute. After programming with the usual process (Think it is Hold Tivo + Mute), you use the same code as for program the TV code (Hold Tivo + power) and it should power on/off the TV and AVR.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Funny: reliable and CEC in the same sentence. But anyhow, I have an older Yamaha. I hit the TV scene button. That might wakeup the TV but I have CEC disabled on everything. The TiVo remote turns on my Sony TV. It might work with the new CEC stuff, but I'm using TE3. I think there's a good chance your scenario will work. Since the TiVo is always on, there's nothing to do there. I'm sure you will get more help.

I wish there were six scene buttons. One button powers on the AVR and changes input. Nice.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

I'm with @JoeKustra 
HDMI-CEC and reliable are not a phrase I would ever use to describe CEC, it will work fine until one day it no longer works and nothing you do will fix it, and then one day 6-8 months later for no reason at all it will start working again.


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## AZrob (Mar 31, 2002)

ThAbtO said:


> Once you have determined the correct code that works for power, volume and mute. After programming with the usual process (Think it is Hold Tivo + Mute), you use the same code as for program the TV code (Hold Tivo + power) and it should power on/off the TV and AVR.


My experience with using one remote to send out power-on codes at the same or near-same time, is that the process can often lead to being out of synch. If it was really reliable, I'd consider it...but the lack thereof in the past is what caused me to employ a universal remote and programmed macros with built-in delays.

Put more honestly, my wife goes nuts when one turns on and the other doesn't. The universal remote solved that problem, until it started dying, so I'm wondering if just focusing on ONE power-on command on one device and letting HDMI-CEC do the rest will be utlimately better.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

A team of experts spent thousands of man years designing HDMI-CEC so it would *always* do the wrong thing . I use my harmony remote to always do the right thing (which sometimes requires wrestling with the harmony software for a few hours) and turn off HDMI-CEC on everything.


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## AZrob (Mar 31, 2002)

tomhorsley said:


> A team of experts spent thousands of man years designing HDMI-CEC so it would *always* do the wrong thing . I use my harmony remote to always do the right thing (which sometimes requires wrestling with the harmony software for a few hours) and turn off HDMI-CEC on everything.


Yeah, and as a retired IT professional I have the time and expertise to do all that........but I was just hoping life could be simpler. Good to hear the Harmony can ultimately work, and I do like that the Hub works with RF. It would be nice if it was illuminated but from what I'm told that is not the case....

Is there at least a way to combine several "activities" together with a pause in between, to avoid synch issues?


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

It has been my experience that the only time a receiver breaks is when it is powered on...or off..most of the time. My receiver stays on all the time.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

AZrob said:


> Is there at least a way to combine several "activities" together with a pause in between, to avoid synch issues?


Yes, you can have multiple activities and insert delays. You need to do this if you let it put your TiVos into Standby, of course.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

AZrob said:


> Is there at least a way to combine several "activities" together with a pause in between, to avoid synch issues?


For what it is worth, here's my review of my Harmony Elite: My Harmony Elite I can get it to do everything I want, but it was a struggle.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

My TV turns my AVR on and off via CEC 100% of the time.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

mdavej said:


> My TV turns my AVR on and off via CEC 100% of the time.


Guess I'm one of the lucky folks too. Any key on my peanut remote wakes up my TV, which in turn wakes up my AVR and switches it to the correct input.

Bolt Vox > Yamaha RX-V483 > Sony 930E

My peanut is programmed to control TV volume, and the TV knows when the AVR is on to use it for audio.

That said, nothing in my TiVo>AVR>TV chain is older than 2017, so shame on the industry if my CEC chain doesn't work properly. Just my .02.


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## AZrob (Mar 31, 2002)

Steve said:


> Guess I'm one of the lucky folks too. Any key on my peanut remote wakes up my TV, which in turn wakes up my AVR and switches it to the correct input.
> 
> Bolt Vox > Yamaha RX-V483 > Sony 930E
> 
> ...


Steve, are you running on Hydra and is that necessary for your connections to work as you describe?


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

AZrob said:


> Steve, are you running on Hydra and is that necessary for your connections to work as you describe?


I am running Hydra. I was running Hydra when CEC support was added, so I don't know if how well it works with TE3.

My guess is if it doesn't work, it's not because of TiVo's implementation. It may be one of the other devices in the chain is running an older version of CEC. Just a thought.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

AZrob said:


> I am in the process of upgrading my system, by getting a SONY 950G LCD tv. I am considering buying a new AVR, specifically a Yamaha RX-V685. The plan is to connect both the Tivo and the TV to the AVR via HDMI. My Tivo is a Roamio Pro.
> 
> The question is: using the latest TE4 UI via a Roamio VOX-enabled remote, can I program it such that it turns on either the TV or the AVR ONLY, and have the activated device power-on the other one?


Unlike some of the others here I've had no issues with CEC.

My TiVo remote is programed to control the power only to the TV and the volume only to the AVR. I got my Onkyo TX-SR607 ages ago (Amazon tells my '09) and immediately set up CEC between it and my Samsung LN52A650. The receiver reliably turns on, and back off, a second or two after the TV turns on/off.

Now turning the AVR on and off from the TV is the only thing I'm using CEC for. (I don't have it set to run the other way, if I turn the AVR on the TV doesn't automatically turn on) But for me it's be dead reliable for that.


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## CinciDVR (May 24, 2014)

AZrob said:


> I am in the process of upgrading my system, by getting a SONY 950G LCD tv. I am considering buying a new AVR, specifically a Yamaha RX-V685. The plan is to connect both the Tivo and the TV to the AVR via HDMI. My Tivo is a Roamio Pro.
> 
> The question is: using the latest TE4 UI via a Roamio VOX-enabled remote, can I program it such that it turns on either the TV or the AVR ONLY, and have the activated device power-on the other one?


I have a Sony 900f TV and Yamaha RX-V485 receiver and CEC between the two has been 100% reliable. After programming the Tivo peanut remote with the Sony TV code, the remote sends power and volume commands to the TV which passes those on to the receiver via CEC. In the year that I've had this setup, I've updated the firmware on the TV three times and the receiver firmware twice. Each time I cross my fingers that CEC will continue to work, and so far it has.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

As you already know, using a TiVo remote to power on/of both a TV and AVR in unison is prone to getting the two boxes out of sync - no way around that. I have one pair that is MOSTLY reliable (only out of sync maybe once a month or less), but my main system with Samsung TV and older Yamaha AVR is out of sync at least 50% of the time (a problem being in sync at least every other day!). I think that system has more problems partly because the Yamaha uses DIFFERENT signals for On vs Off, but kudos to TiVo that it can even work with that Yamaha at all - many universal remotes simply cannot.

As for CEC - the reliability of that technology is TOTALLY dependent on just how well the individual boxes work together. CEC is a "standard" in name only; there is NO standard implementation of the technology. Having all boxes from the same brand is the best way to ensure CEC works properly, but few of us want to be forced into doing that. I do not think there is any way at all to tell in advance if two boxes will work properly together with CEC until you actually try it. 

Sometimes you get lucky. I have a very old Pioneer Blue-ray player that works PERFECTLY with CEC and my newish Samsung TV - inputs automatically switch, either box properly turns on or off the other one, turning off the player tells the TV to automagically switch back to the TiVo input, etc. It is nice when they do work together like that. Good luck.


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## AZrob (Mar 31, 2002)

CinciDVR said:


> I have a Sony 900f TV and Yamaha RX-V485 receiver and CEC between the two has been 100% reliable. After programming the Tivo peanut remote with the Sony TV code, the remote sends power and volume commands to the TV which passes those on to the receiver via CEC. In the year that I've had this setup, I've updated the firmware on the TV three times and the receiver firmware twice. Each time I cross my fingers that CEC will continue to work, and so far it has.


Thanks! I've now settled on a SONY 950 TV talking to a Yamaha TSR-7850 AVR (aka RXA-V780) which should be the same software combo....you have me hopeful that when the TV is installed in 2 weeks it will work the same.


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## dahacker (Jan 14, 2004)

I've had a lot of luck with the Yamaha receivers in getting CEC working properly in multiple different setups. Also their standby HDMI switching when they are powered off and you are only using the TV speakers works great.

But honestly, eventually, the CEC stops working properly. I think I had one setup working for two years and then suddenly I couldn't get it configured properly without a lot of setup hoops on the Reciever and TV. I've reverted to using the simple and cheap harmony remotes with four LCD device buttons like the Harmony 700 or the now Harmony 665 to program the configuration sequences. The watch TV sequence is simply, power on TV, select Tivo HDMI on receiver, and then send the Tivo button press to the Tivo. Then I can watch TV without the reciever on. If I want to use the receiver speakers, I press the power on receiver button noted on the LCD and the Receiver powers up, and the TV speakers turn off and I'm good to go. I own six of the Harmony 700's for various TVs and houses, and there simply isn't anything cheaper and better.

Like you, I was a die hard MX remote user. The new Harmony remotes are simple and fully programmable, lighter, and better than the old MX remotes. Now I don't have a solution for your VOX problems personally, but the Yamaha receiver will solve a lot of problems.


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## AZrob (Mar 31, 2002)

CinciDVR said:


> I have a Sony 900f TV and Yamaha RX-V485 receiver and CEC between the two has been 100% reliable. After programming the Tivo peanut remote with the Sony TV code, the remote sends power and volume commands to the TV which passes those on to the receiver via CEC. In the year that I've had this setup, I've updated the firmware on the TV three times and the receiver firmware twice. Each time I cross my fingers that CEC will continue to work, and so far it has.


CincyDVR, I just got my SONY 950g TV and it so far does not seem to be able to even "see" my Yamaha RX-A780 receiver. On the Bravia Sync Menu, which has an Enable button that sends a signal to any connected device, which in my case is the Yamaha AVR, nothing shows up in the list of connected devices. Nothing, nada, no response.

I have a high quality 5m HDMI cable (Audio Quest Cinnamon) connected between the 2 units and HDMI-CEC is enabled on both sides. The HDMI input on the Sony is HDMI-3 (which is the only one designated for ARC/EARC). The output on the Yamaha is AV1. Can you share any config parameters/hookup issues I may be missing here? My main issue is that I want the power on/off option to work with the SONY controlling the AVR (i.e. when I turn the SONY off I want the Yamaha AVR to turn off).

Thanks,
Rob from AZ


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

AZrob said:


> I just got my SONY 950g TV and it so far does not seem to be able to even "see" my Yamaha RX-A780 receiver.


Usually, it works well when they are the same brand.


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

AZrob said:


> I am in the process of upgrading my system, by getting a SONY 950G LCD tv. I am considering buying a new AVR, specifically a Yamaha RX-V685. The plan is to connect both the Tivo and the TV to the AVR via HDMI. My Tivo is a Roamio Pro.
> 
> The question is: using the latest TE4 UI via a Roamio VOX-enabled remote, can I program it such that it turns on either the TV or the AVR ONLY, and have the activated device power-on the other one?
> 
> ...


The Roamio doesn't actually support CEC, so, it's a problem point in any system. The symptom with my LG OLED is I'll bring up something on my Smart TV like Netflix, but when I exit out, I see a blank screen because it didn't switch back to the TiVo's input on the TV or the AVR. There is a fairly complex work-around for this using a Raspberry Pi to make HDMI from the Roamio respond to CEC, and it works somewhat better.

The key to get a universal remote like the MX-850 to work well is to hunt down the discrete on, off, and AV selection codes and program those in to your macros. I still have to repeat pushing the button from time to time, but at least things don't get out of sync.


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## AZrob (Mar 31, 2002)

jonw747 said:


> The Roamio doesn't actually support CEC, so, it's a problem point in any system. The symptom with my LG OLED is I'll bring up something on my Smart TV like Netflix, but when I exit out, I see a blank screen because it didn't switch back to the TiVo's input on the TV or the AVR. There is a fairly complex work-around for this using a Raspberry Pi to make HDMI from the Roamio respond to CEC, and it works somewhat better.
> 
> The key to get a universal remote like the MX-850 to work well is to hunt down the discrete on, off, and AV selection codes and program those in to your macros. I still have to repeat pushing the button from time to time, but at least things don't get out of sync.


Jon,
I hear you about the Roamio not actually supporting CEC, but for my purposes, which is just to get the TV to turn off the AVR, isn't that beside the point? Does a Roamio attached to the AVR affect the interaction between a TV attached to the same AVR? All I need to have happen here, is have the AVR turn off when the TV is turned off by the Tivo Peanut remote. I don't need to do anything with the (Roamio) Tivo itself. Or am I missing something?

Thanks,
Rob


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

AZrob said:


> All I need to have happen here, is have the AVR turn off when the TV is turned off by the Tivo Peanut remote. I don't need to do anything with the (Roamio) Tivo itself. Or am I missing something?


Totally apart from CEC, you also can program the TiVo remote's Power button to turn 2 devices on/off. Issue solved easily enough. Allow tivo remote to power off a/v receiver


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## AZrob (Mar 31, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> Totally apart from CEC, you also can program the TiVo remote's Power button to turn 2 devices on/off. Issue solved easily enough. Allow tivo remote to power off a/v receiver


Thank you, but I have not found that to work. There is often a synch issue, when one device goes on, but the other remains off, or vice versa. Then getting them in synch requires a tricky little dance of correcting the one in error, while avoiding triggering the one that is okay.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

AZrob said:


> Thank you, but I have not found that to work. There is often a synch issue, when one device goes on, but the other remains off, or vice versa. Then getting them in synch requires a tricky little dance of correcting the one in error, while avoiding triggering the one that is okay.


Sorry  -- yep, have seen the sync issue before (I believe I had it with an earlier Harmony remote--which I then returned).


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

AZrob said:


> Jon,
> I hear you about the Roamio not actually supporting CEC, but for my purposes, which is just to get the TV to turn off the AVR, isn't that beside the point? Does a Roamio attached to the AVR affect the interaction between a TV attached to the same AVR? All I need to have happen here, is have the AVR turn off when the TV is turned off by the Tivo Peanut remote. I don't need to do anything with the (Roamio) Tivo itself. Or am I missing something?
> 
> Thanks,
> Rob


Sure, you should be able to get your TV to turn off your AVR regardless of whether the TiVo is plugged in. The problem the Roamio causes is more stuff like I described where the TV or AVR switches to the wrong input because the TiVo won't speak up and admit its active.

There are of course a bunch of settings that have to be enabled in the TV and AVR to get this to work, and it just might be the equipment isn't getting along - especially since you've noted your TV doesn't even recognize the AVR is connected.

The way you've phrased things, it does beg the question as to whether the AVR turns off when you turn off the TV with the TV's remote, though?

fwiw, the MX-900 is a nice upgrade from the MX-850 if you can find one and have the programming software.


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## AZrob (Mar 31, 2002)

jonw747 said:


> Sure, you should be able to get your TV to turn off your AVR regardless of whether the TiVo is plugged in. The problem the Roamio causes is more stuff like I described where the TV or AVR switches to the wrong input because the TiVo won't speak up and admit its active.
> 
> There are of course a bunch of settings that have to be enabled in the TV and AVR to get this to work, and it just might be the equipment isn't getting along - especially since you've noted your TV doesn't even recognize the AVR is connected.
> 
> ...


Actually, I was just going to report back that I solved the problem and it was ....operator error. I THOUGHT I had plugged the HDMI outbound cable into the AV1 port on the AVR, the one that supports EAC...but I had not. I had put it into AV2, which does not support EAC. (It was easy to make the mistake, because I had assumed that the 2 ports would line up AV1 then AV2, left to right as seen from the back. But it is the opposite of that - AV1 is to the right of AV2, so I had assumed incorrectly. Once I inserted the HDMI cable into the right port, it all worked correctly. I can now just turn off the TV and the AVR responds immediately by turning off as well. Turning the TV on also works to turn on the AVR too. So we are good!


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