# Persons Unknown series thread with spoilers



## jschuur

I'm inclined to suggest we do a single thread for the whole season (even though I complained about this for another show a while back), since this has been billed as a 'mini series', albeit a hefty one at 13 episodes and I'm guessing we're going to get closure at the end.

I enjoyed the pilot. Ordinarily I don't like shows that seem to string you along endlessly without revealing much and playing up the tension between the characters, but the prospect of seeing this thing play out over the summer makes me want to keep tuning in. I loath the comparisons people are already making about it being the 'Next Lost' though. Here's hoping that expression jumps the shark soon.

As far as what's going on, I suspect the 'town' is a place where other people have 'volunteered' people they want to get rid for some kind of experiment. Over time, I think we'll see that each person has someone who benefits from them being gone. Grandma wanted to raise her grandchild and the husband might play in somehow too. Reporter guy suspected something was up with her, when she seemed a little too happy to have the grandchild around finally.

And yeah... I've asked a mod to fix my typo in the topic.


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## Hcour

I'm willing to give it a try, but only because it's a mini-series. After getting ripped off with Flash Forward I refuse to watch another of these "puzzle" shows unless I'm sure it's actually going to have a resolution.


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## BrandonRe

I thought they did a good job creating tension in the pilot. One thing I thought was odd was that there appeared to be a surveillance camera in the grandmothers house. I wonder what's up with that? I'm in for the season at this point.


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## Jeeters

I only caught the last 3 minutes while channel flipping. It immediately caught my attention and had me wondering what the heck I was watching. Stayed 'til the end credits to catch the name of the show. (I can say I had heard about it before but didn't think to check it out). I now definitely want to see the episode in full so will look for a repeat airing or a torrent.


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## Fool Me Twice

Never heard of it until I saw this thread. Watched it this morning. I'm in. It's not the next Lost, but the next Harper's Island, which I more or less enjoyed until the ending. Like that other show, it looks to be heavy on mood and mystery, and at 13 episodes it's not a big investment. 

I wish Happy Town had been a mini-series. It fits in nicely with these other two shows and would have been a perfect 13 episode series. I think I mentioned in a HT thread that these shows are like stand alone genre novels. The quality can vary greatly, but as long as you like the genre the few hours spent reading will likely be enjoyable.

As for this episode in particular:

Are we supposed to notice things like "Beautiful Dreamer" being played in the hotel lobby, I wonder? Every detail isn't a clue, I suppose.

What was in bathrobe lady's hand when she reached in her pocket to pull the fortune cookie back out?

Things I would have done were I there: Check all the "extras" (the Chinese guys and the desk clerk and whoever else shows up) for implants. Shoot out, disable all cameras. Cut out that damn implant. Yeah, that last one would be hard, and the pain might be too great, but I'd sure give it a try. It would have to be done quick and dirty, though.


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## Marc

Fool Me Twice said:


> What was in bathrobe lady's hand when she reached in her pocket to pull the fortune cookie back out?


It looked to me like a hospital wristband.


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## wouldworker

I understand the aversion to calling a show the next Lost, but it's pretty clear that this show is inspired by the success of Lost. The promos said things like "There will be answers" and the pilot introduces a similar mystery - why were these people brought to this place? Who did it?

I did like that they resolved the mystery of why people pass out if they try to leave the town, and they did it fairly plausibly. I'll keep watching as long as it remains interesting and doesn't get like Lost where it quickly became clear that not only wouldn't there be a rational explanation, there _couldn't_ be a rational explanation.


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## Alfer

We're in...it held our interest which is tough to do with most shows these days.

Only thing about the implants is how the hell could it be that NONE of these people felt/noticed those honkin big implants! I mean that sh*t would hurt if it was just implanted that day ( or within a day or so of when they arrived).

SP set up.


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## obixman

I rather liked it - at least enough to keep the season pass.

We seem have some "types" present, but the writting seems good enough to flesh them out without a problem.

Everyone seems to have a secret, although the exact cause of their abduction will be (I predict) among the last things we find out.

I have a strong feeling that at least one of the seven is a mole ( based mostly I admit on "The Prisoner" series).

About 13 years ago I ran a GURPS game that started out with the same premise, so it wil be interesting to see where they take this show.


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## wprager

The comparison to Lost is, well, lost on me. I'd say there's some similarities to The Prisoner (the remake, especially -- very similar vibe) as well as a bit of Saw.

Anyone else here want the car salesman to get Ben Linus'd by the marine? 

The housecoat lady seems suspicious. How did she know to look for marks? Could be just sloppy writing and bad acting, but it appeared suspicious. Interesting if what she was hiding was really a hospital wrist bracelet -- maybe the psych ward?

I wonder how many of the others lied about what was on their fortune cookie.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE

I'm in for 13 episodes.


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## dimented

I'm in. I just stumbled across it last night and really enjoyed the pilot.


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## swinca

I ran across this while flipping channels, so I missed the first half. I thought it was a little goofy but I liked it. I'll watch more.


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## Amnesia

It seems like a given that one of the "hostages" is really a "bad guy". My vote is for the crazy woman.


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## Rob Helmerichs

Maybe it's a reality TV show...

"Seven strangers, picked to live in a town..."



By the way, the executive producers are the guy who wrote Usual Suspects and a woman with the same last name.


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## marksman

I normally think I am disappointed in 95&#37; of the first episode/pilot episodes of new shows. Often trying to cram too much into them and set up too much back story.

Short of blatantly putting one of them in a military uniform, I think they did a good job unfolding things. I was intrigued and engaged pretty much from the beginning, I definitely hope to see this through.

Also the housecoat lady said she knew about medicine, although I think she was in some kind of hospital, because it looked to me when she put the fortune in her bag or whatever and pulled it out she was pushing in some sort of hospital wristband. Maybe I was just seeing things. That had me think, along with the robe, though, that she was likely taken from a hospital or mental hospital. She said she went to sleep and woke up in the hotel.



I do wish someone would have opened the check at the chinese restaurant. I thought it funny the waiter brought the bill with the fortune cookies.


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## jsmeeker

I sort of stumbled on this last night when it first started and watched the thing live live.

I'm in for this one. Just need to setup the SP on it.


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## mrdazzo7

I thought it was intriguing enough. It bothers me that every mystery show that comes out gets talked about as the "next Lost"... I love me some Lost but I don't think it invented mysteries. I love the fact that this isn't a series though--like someone said, it's kind of like a book. You know it's gonna end, and that makes it much more interesting. 

I keep thinking of Harper's Island, because it's a serialized suspese/mystery/thriller, etc. I'm hoping this avoid some of the pitfals H.I. fell into, like characters doing absolutely retarded things every episode. At least in this, I felt like everyone behaved consistently with the situation (although I would have absolutely assaulted one of the chinese guys; they backed of from them pretty quickly. 

I agree with Alfer about the implants--it was pretty dumb that they didn't notice them. However since I'm familiar with these types of shows, I'm already resigned to the fact that dumb **** like that is gonna occur from time to time. Hopefully they keep it to a minimum--these stories are always so much better when things unfold in a logical way. 

Glad the writer's ruled out money being the motivator. Now it's totally open as far as what the deal is..that could be good and bad--unfortunately if they blow that reveal it could ruin the entire show. I think Robe lady was definitely in a psych ward. She said she was a counselor for teachers or something, I can't imagine that comes with a detailed knowledge of painkillers. I'm curious as to who Joe is--they seemed to go ut of their way to hint that he has a secret. Party Girl is nice to look at, but hopefully she has some kind of point. I'm rooting from Cam from Ferris Bueller--he really wants to get back to his woman. Also, was I seeing things or did that last shot reveal that they're on an island? 

Anyway, hopefully this is some good clean fun and it doesn't resort to absurdity or bad acting (like the god awful daughter). So far so good.


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## jschuur

mrdazzo7 said:


> At least in this, I felt like everyone behaved consistently with the situation (although I would have absolutely assaulted one of the chinese guys; they backed of from them pretty quickly.


The Chinese guys were petrified, and not just because of the shotgun. I half expected them to reveal explosive collars like in Running Man. They must have been coerced somehow.

I think we can rule out money being demanded in exchange the them, but perhaps money flowed the other way to 'volunteer' people someone wanted to get rid of.


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## mrdazzo7

jschuur said:


> The Chinese guys were petrified, and not just because of the shotgun. I half expected them to reveal explosive collars like in Running Man. They must have been coerced somehow.


Yeah but them appearing scared wouldn't be enough for me to leave it alone. If I wake up in a vacant town having been drugged and kidnapped, I would be interrogating everyone who popped up. The chinese guys were scared, and everyone was just like "aight, let's eat"... they don't ask who they are, how they came to be there, or what they know. The clearly had directions from somewhere, and they didn't appear to be under any distress at first. Just seemed inconsistent with someone who was terrified from the start.

I did find the night manager's comment interesting, he made it sound like he's gone through this a bunch of times.


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## marksman

I guess I was too dumb to think about it at the time, but someone just told me that probably all the fortune cookies say the same thing. We only actually saw one fortune cookie, the one that said to kill your neighbor. So I am not the brightest bulb and didn't pick up on that.


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## Cainebj

Didn't one of them ask to read the others?

I think this show is the next LOST.

i'm in.


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## natkins

wprager said:


> The housecoat lady seems suspicious. How did she know to look for marks? Could be just sloppy writing and bad acting, but it appeared suspicious. Interesting if what she was hiding was really a hospital wrist bracelet -- maybe the psych ward?


After visiting NBC's website for this show, the "Cast Bios" section clearly reveals what she's all about. Seems like they're NOT trying to hide her background at all. (If you don't really want to know about her, don't click this link.)

http://www.nbc.com/persons-unknown/bios/tina-holmes/


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## astrohip

jschuur said:


> I'm inclined to suggest we do a single thread for the whole season (even though I complained about this for another show a while back), since this has been billed as a 'mini series', albeit a hefty one at 13 episodes and I'm guessing we're going to get closure at the end.


Do we know for certain that this is a closed-end 13 episode mini-series? For 13 eps and knowing we'll get closure, count me in. The pilot held my attention, and I'll go for the ride. But without a network guarantee, and knowing the survival rate of summer series, no way.

Good idea on a single thread--great way to do a series like this.


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## Amnesia

It also did pretty badly in the ratings...


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## mrdazzo7

Amnesia said:


> It also did pretty badly in the ratings...


I figured it would given the nearly non-existent promotion. The only reason I knew about this show was the one commercial I saw while watching something on NBC last week. Compare that to Fox's seemingly unwatchable "Good Guys" which I think is the most advertised summer show I've ever seen.

NBC has to be expecting low numbers and I assume the thing is shot and in the can which is why they're using it to fill in the dead-anyway 10PM time slot. If they had any real hopes for it they would have actually promoted it.


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## jschuur

astrohip said:


> Do we know for certain that this is a closed-end 13 episode mini-series? For 13 eps and knowing we'll get closure, count me in. The pilot held my attention, and I'll go for the ride. But without a network guarantee, and knowing the survival rate of summer series, no way.


I thought I saw this universally called a 'mini series', and to me that means it's got a planned ending after a set number of episodes. Now that I dig deeper though, not everyone is calling it a mini series, and 13 episodes is a lot for one. In fact, NBC's official press release doesn't use the term either.


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## marksman

Amnesia said:


> It also did pretty badly in the ratings...


Yeah I had never heard of it before I saw it show up.

This is one of the things that pisses me off about networks. They will probably yank it off before it is done, or jack it around the schedule so much you can't follow it, when if they would have just provided it a little bit of promotion and not given it a pretty stupid and generic name, it might have had a shot.

I am not confident at all that I will see the end run of this show. They will either yank or it delay it/move it around to the point that I will not see it.

From the responses here and other people I know who have seen it, the show is interesting people. Given the number of network shows the networks support that are clearly crap, this seems to indicate they really do not know what they are doing.

This show could very well be crap, but as I mentioned earlier, the number of times new shows these days get my interest in the first episode is almost none. This one did.

Sorry just frustrated at what I am sure will be the network destroying something that could have been good.


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## natkins

*According to the latest issue of TV Guide:*

They're watching you! No, it's not paranoia -- it's the premise of NBC's summer psychological thriller _Persons Unknown_. Created by screenwriter Christopher McQuarrie, the 13-episode series begins when seven strangers are kidnapped and brought to a town that's deserted except for a Chinese restaurant and an unknown presence behind the surveillance cameras that are everywhere.

The group is left wondering why them, and for what purposes, but executive producer Remi Aubuchon promises that viewers will be clued in to those answers sooner rather than later: *"The audience will know more than the people in the town. It was important for us not to test the viewers' patience. There is a beginning, middle and an end, and I think it will be satisfying. Everything that happens to these people could happen to any of us. There are no crazy magical things going on here. They aren't on Mars. There are no Smoke Monsters."*


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## Hcour

Since the Chinese guys don't have implants (or they wouldn't have been able to go to the edge of town to retrieve the others) how 'bout give them a note for the authorities and tell them to hop in their van and hit the road, jack.

I don't think is show that will hold up to a lot of scrutiny...


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## marksman

It sounds like they are more going to play off the motivations and actions as opposed to the hows... which is fine by me.


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## tivogurl

Hcour said:


> Since the Chinese guys don't have implants (or they wouldn't have been able to go to the edge of town to retrieve the others)


The trigger could have been temporarily turned off.


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## loubob57

I'm in.


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## brettatk

Haven't found much else to watch this Summer so I'm in. Pilot did at least hold my interest.


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## madscientist

I anticipate that the Chinese men don't speak any English at all, save for the one who was talking, and he knows barely more than he used last night. Also remember the people in the town are being watched closely 24/7 and I'm sure the restaurant workers are searched thoroughly every time they leave (if they in fact do leave). I doubt it would work to hide a note or whatever (although I do agree they should be _trying_ all these things).

To me the most intriguing thing was the hotel manager who implied he'd done this many times before...

Also, I wonder how much anesthetic those embedded capsules contain. Maybe you could get them to run out: tie a rope or bedsheet or something around yourself so the others could pull you back, then repeatedly try to leave until they went dry. I suppose if they're really remotely activate-able they could knock everyone out and "refill" them somehow.

I thought the "road" would turn out to be painted on a wall or something: it was so obviously fake in the show... but I guess that was just bad special effects


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## Alfer

madscientist said:


> *I anticipate that the Chinese men don't speak any English at all, save for the one who was talking, and he knows barely more than he used last night.* Also remember the people in the town are being watched closely 24/7 and I'm sure the restaurant workers are searched thoroughly every time they leave (if they in fact do leave). I doubt it would work to hide a note or whatever (although I do agree they should be _trying_ all these things).
> 
> To me the most intriguing thing was the hotel manager who implied he'd done this many times before...
> 
> Also, I wonder how much anesthetic those embedded capsules contain. Maybe you could get them to run out: tie a rope or bedsheet or something around yourself so the others could pull you back, then repeatedly try to leave until they went dry. I suppose if they're really remotely activate-able they could knock everyone out and "refill" them somehow.
> 
> I thought the "road" would turn out to be painted on a wall or something: it was so obviously fake in the show... but I guess that was just bad special effects


Would be funny if the next time he shows up he does his choppy Engrish schtick for the folks and after much frustrations stops..looks at them and says ...*"Dude..I don't know WHAT the frack is going on..I'm just an actor and someone gave me a pile of money to act like I own this restaurant.*..."


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## Steveknj

obixman said:


> I rather liked it - at least enough to keep the season pass.
> 
> We seem have some "types" present, but the writting seems good enough to flesh them out without a problem.
> 
> Everyone seems to have a secret, although the exact cause of their abduction will be (I predict) among the last things we find out.
> 
> *I have a strong feeling that at least one of the seven is a mole ( based mostly I admit on "The Prisoner" series).*
> 
> About 13 years ago I ran a GURPS game that started out with the same premise, so it wil be interesting to see where they take this show.


I think it's a cross between Lost, a Stephen King novel and The Prisoner. In fact, when they were walking toward the periphery of the town, I half expected to see a big white bubble try and stop them 

This definitely held my interest. I loved the ending with the fortune cookies (had one this afternoon, which made me smile thinking about this). This is the type of quirky show that keeps me coming back. Beats 5 more versions of CSI, that's for sure.


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## Steveknj

One thought I had, is that they are all players in a video game.


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## Fool Me Twice

Steveknj said:


> One thought I had, is that they are all players in a video game.


Or they're all dead, or it's all someone's dream. The knee jerk theory trifecta.  It's impossible not to consider those theories when a show throws several strangers together in an odd place.

But to me, the security camera POV shots suggest that it's all happening in the real world. I wonder about the lack of surgical wounds where the implants are, though.


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## jschuur

At the rate this thread is going, I wonder if I should have held off calling this a series wide thread. There's definitely a lot to talk about already.


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## Hcour

Steveknj said:


> I think it's a cross between Lost, a Stephen King novel and The Prisoner.


And maybe some Agatha Christie's "Ten Little Indians".


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## astrohip

Fool Me Twice said:


> Or they're all dead, or it's all someone's dream. The knee jerk theory trifecta.  It's impossible not to consider those theories when a show throws several strangers together in an odd place.


There's no reason to believe this isn't real. It'll have some weird twist, but I don't think purgatory or dreams will be that twist. 


jschuur said:


> At the rate this thread is going, I wonder if I should have held off calling this a series wide thread. There's definitely a lot to talk about already.


I still like the single thread idea for a mini-series like this.


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## mrdazzo7

marksman said:


> It sounds like they are more going to play off the motivations and actions as opposed to the hows... which is fine by me.


I do hope that as the show unfolds they will show each person's kidnapping like they did with Janet (I think that was her name). I love stories like this that start with some crazy circumstance than unravels both in real time and through flashbacks. That was my favorite thing about Lost in the beginning--you had absolutely no idea who the characters were and had to learn piece by piece as you went. I write screenplays and there is so much negativity around flashbacks but I never understood why--done right it's a great storytelling device.

Hopefully they keep things interesting. This story has a LOT of potential to delve into over-used cliche's and tired rehashed stuff, but it also has equal potential to try to do something different. I hope there isn't a mole because it's painfully obvious that there is one--any writer by now has to know that fans are too smart for that. I do like that they introduced every character as vaguely as possible--we've only seen one kidnapping so we knows she's telling the truth.

Someone else mentioned that maybe all of their fortune cookies said what Janet's said--that didn't occur to me but I think it's awesome. Kind of risky for everyone to lie since all anyone had to say was "let me see that!" and it would have unraveled. But anyway, would be interesting if you're right.



jschuur said:


> At the rate this thread is going, I wonder if I should have held off calling this a series wide thread. There's definitely a lot to talk about already.


I'm actually really surprised it's getting such positive response on here--I thought it was pretty good but I expected a ton of bashing. Hopefully it stays interesting.


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## Fl_Gulfer

We are in a my house.. I also think it's some kind of internet game where people are betting on who kills who and the grandmother is also being held hostage by having to keep her mouth shut or her and the kid dies.


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## Jonathan_S

Fool Me Twice said:


> Things I would have done were I there: Check all the "extras" (the Chinese guys and the desk clerk and whoever else shows up) for implants. Shoot out, disable all cameras. Cut out that damn implant. Yeah, that last one would be hard, and the pain might be too great, but I'd sure give it a try. It would have to be done quick and dirty, though.


Yeah, I'm surprised no one tried screwing with the big obvious camera. (Although I suspect if they do so the viewer will be treated to coverage from the hidden backup pinhole cameras)

I was amused by the magnetic lock. I could think of a couple ways to beat it none of which assume it is tied into the fire alarm. (Dig into the wall and yank it's power input, use an improvised battering ram to break the door away from the metal plate, or if you could find a screwdriver simply unscrew the metal plate)
And making fire by rubbing sticks together when they had electricity seemed a bit odd.

Also, they should have asked the night clerk what he meant by "he was used to it by now". It couldn't be that he'd been it town long enough to adjust, since he implied he'd only been in town 1 day. (Technically he just said he'd had the job one day and woke up in the rear apartement after being told about it. Even if he's telling the trust he _could_ have been somewhere else in town before)


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## ElJay

I liked it. Hopefully I can stick around with it a bit longer than "Happy Town" (which only a few episodes in felt like it was a total waste of time).


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## Amnesia

Any series starring Amy Acker is definitely not a waste of time...


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## mrdazzo7

Amnesia said:


> Any series starring Amy Acker is definitely not a waste of time...


Amy Acker was in this?


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## Rob Helmerichs

mrdazzo7 said:


> Amy Acker was in this?


Happy Town (which is the show ElJay called a waste of time).


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## appleye1

Hcour said:


> And maybe some Agatha Christie's "Ten Little Indians".


I thought so too.

In fact I googled "Ten Little Indians" to make sure the plot was similar. But the most interesting thing I found was what the original title of Agatha Christie's book was.  I won't mention it here, but let's just say it would probably be a good addition to the "NAACP saved the solar system" thread.  I also found by the way, that "Ten Little Indians" is no longer politically correct either. Most editions and adaptations of the book now are being called either "Ten Little Soldiers" or "And Then There Were None".


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## greggt007

The fortune cookies all must say the same thing. When we saw it during the episode it was all on one line. Then in the preview for next week, the same phrase about killing the neighbor was on two lines. So, there's more than one, unless it's just real bad continuity.

Not familiar with 'the prisoner' but this definitely reminds me of 'saw' as someone also mentioned.
Not sure if I will setup a SP.


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## DevdogAZ

marksman said:


> I guess I was too dumb to think about it at the time, but someone just told me that probably all the fortune cookies say the same thing. We only actually saw one fortune cookie, the one that said to kill your neighbor. So I am not the brightest bulb and didn't pick up on that.


I didn't see any indication of that, but it will definitely be interesting if that turns out to be the case.


Hcour said:


> Since the Chinese guys don't have implants (or they wouldn't have been able to go to the edge of town to retrieve the others) how 'bout give them a note for the authorities and tell them to hop in their van and hit the road, jack.


I don't think the implants are triggered automatically by proximity to the edge of town. I think they're triggered remotely by the people watching the camera footage. It seemed to me that each of their devices were triggered at slightly different places in relation to the end of the road.

Did anyone else notice that while they were eating in the Chinese restaurant, there were a bunch of people dressed in white doing something right outside the front window? Seemed odd that none of the characters pointed that out.

The one complaint I had was when the Chinese guys drove up in the van and dropped off the three revived people, then disappeared into that non-descript door in the wall. Why didn't they use the shotgun to blow open that door and follow those guys "behind the scenes?" That would seem like the obvious course of action to me.


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## wprager

For the record, I never said I thought all the fortune cookies said the same thing. What I said was:


wprager said:


> I wonder how many of the others lied about what was on their fortune cookie.


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## Ruth

I liked it! Well, parts of it kind of bugged me but overall I was very intrigued. I'm in.


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## RGM1138

I'm intrigued. But, if somebody doesn't kill off Mr. Obnoxious soon, I won't last that long.

Bob


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## marksman

Haha I call him Obnoxious guy as well. How does he keep ending up with the shotgun?

I am thinking for myself I would spend less time trying to figure out how to escape and more time trying to figure out what is going on so you might use that information to help yourself.

It is clear that they are locked down pretty tight, and they spend all their time and energy just proving that to themselves.

It does seem like there is a person outside that is somehow responsible for each person who is inside...

Also how long until they hate Chinese food. Finally when the camera slid out to be replaced, that was very disheartening from their standpoint. I know they didn't see it, but it just reinforces the idea that there is not going to be any way to just break out of there.


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## Rob Helmerichs

marksman said:


> I am thinking for myself I would spend less time trying to figure out how to escape and more time trying to figure out what is going on so you might use that information to help yourself.
> 
> It is clear that they are locked down pretty tight, and they spend all their time and energy just proving that to themselves.


On the other hand, if I read the timeline properly they've only been there for two days, and the de facto leader-guy _did _send them out on a search-the-town mission...

Interesting that Mr Obnoxious turned out to be right about the desk clerk.


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## RGM1138

Rob Helmerichs said:


> On the other hand, if I read the timeline properly they've only been there for two days, and the de facto leader-guy _did _send them out on a search-the-town mission...
> 
> Interesting that Mr Obnoxious turned out to be right about the desk clerk.


I've only seen the one ep, but I have a feeling that Obnox may be a mole. He's seems like a real instigator.

And, unless aliens are involved, this reads like some covert government experiment.

Bob


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## Rob Helmerichs

RGM1138 said:


> And, unless aliens are involved, this reads like some covert government experiment.


Until the Magic Light that teleported the van back into town, they seemed to be heading that way...


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## mwhip

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Until the Magic Light that teleported the van back into town, they seemed to be heading that way...


Yeah what the hell was up with that? I did not fully understand and then they never talked about it.


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## Keen

It's sad that none of them knew how to work around being hit by microwaves. Grab some aluminum foil from the kitchen, wrap yourself in it, and walk out of town. Of course that doesn't save them from the magic light, but at least it's something.


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## Jonathan_S

mwhip said:


> Yeah what the hell was up with that? I did not fully understand and then they never talked about it.


I have two theories (assuming that the show isn't going to go the "magic" route).

In either case the light is just a really bright spotlight used for psychological reasons to further confuse or dishearten the victims.
1) The road is carefully constructed to get them turned around so they end up driving back into town w/o realizing it.

2) The builders actually set up two (or more) identical towns and they allowed the victims to drive to town 2.

In either case the night manager was transported to the correct hotel while the van was out slowely wandering around the countryside. (Now that _doesn't_ explain how the cuts and bruises on his face disappeared)


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## marksman

Maybe the Night Clerk is a set of twins.


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## MasterCephus

This show is really neat. Hoping it wraps up rather nicely.


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## Ruth

I am liking this show a lot. 

I especially enjoyed the cheery "welcome back!" billboard they passed after getting re-routed back into town.


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## Hcour

They remove everyone's implant, _then_ they test if that was what was knocking them out? Myself, I might have removed one person's implant, then tested, before putting everyone thru that. But that's just me.

And if there's a "pain fence", why did they have implants in the first place?

At least they found a reason for the blonde babe to take her clothes off...


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## Jeeters

Hcour said:


> And if there's a "pain fence", why did they have implants in the first place?


If the implants could be triggered remotely, then they could be triggered any time their captors wanted too, not just when they tried to leave.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Jeeters said:


> If the implants could be triggered remotely, then they could be triggered any time their captors wanted too, not just when they tried to leave.


Plus, the Evil Overlords could just be messing with their heads.

(Gee, Rob, ya THINK?!? )


----------



## Steveknj

I'm thinking this is some psychological experiment, and these folks are all in some sort of drug induced hallucination. Heck, who really knows at this point? It's fun, and I'm enjoying it so far...


----------



## Jeeters

I think it's some sort of purgatory.


----------



## DevdogAZ

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Interesting that Mr Obnoxious turned out to be right about the desk clerk.


I'm not sure how right he was. Just because Night Manager knew he could run past the invisible fence without it affecting him doesn't mean he knows what's going on. He may simply know that "they" will allow him to get past the fence to get away from the hostages.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

DevdogAZ said:


> I'm not sure how right he was. Just because Night Manager knew he could run past the invisible fence without it affecting him doesn't mean he knows what's going on. He may simply know that "they" will allow him to get past the fence to get away from the hostages.


It means he knows more than they do, and therefore has information that they can gain from him. Which is what Mr. Obnoxious wanted to get.


----------



## astrohip

Jeeters said:


> I think it's some sort of purgatory.


No, the producers have said this is NOT purgatory, or a dream. They insist that it can all be explained with regular science, that there is . . . oh wait.

Never mind.


----------



## jsmeeker

I bet everyone got something in their room. we just saw two of them, and only one person admitted to it.

I'll be annoyed of the magic light really is "magic".


----------



## wprager

Personally, I thought the light knocked them out (trance) and "they" simply brought them back.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

wprager said:


> Personally, I thought the light knocked them out (trance) and "they" simply brought them back.


That doesn't seem to be the way they showed it...I'm pretty sure the van was moving, both before and after the light.


----------



## jschuur

I just assumed their road was slightly curved and they went in a circle.


----------



## whitson77

I expected this to be a suckfest, but it has really been good so far. I hope it stays that way. The ratings have been God awful, but to be honest the promos made it look so bad.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

whitson77 said:


> The ratings have been God awful, but to be honest the promos made it look so bad.


No, YOU look so bad!

(OK, that sounded a lot more clever when it was in the part of my brain that's still five years old...)


----------



## whitson77

Rob Helmerichs said:


> No, YOU look so bad!
> 
> (OK, that sounded a lot more clever when it was in the part of my brain that's still five years old...)


LOL


----------



## DoombFlon

This a discussion thread for the ODI series between India and Australia bhai-log 

as munna couldnt find a thread already started for this topic, so munna took the honor to post the official announcement of the discussion of the much-awaited Ind-Aussie series bhai-log


----------



## mattack

I haven't read the thread yet.. but I started watching an episode sometime around when I should have been asleep (i.e. when I would theoretically need to be asleep to get 8 hours of sleep by the time my alarm goes off.. though I'm practically never actually asleep by then).. but anyway, I ended up watching the entire show!

It wasn't the absolute most compelling thing I've ever seen, and not the newest idea either (skimming the thread I saw other references).. but was still pretty darn good. (Though I don't remember all of the instances during the show, I do wish that the characters made references like "Didn't you ever see that 'Twilight Zone' episode?" for various familiar issues.)


----------



## mattack

Alfer said:


> Only thing about the implants is how the hell could it be that NONE of these people felt/noticed those honkin big implants! I mean that sh*t would hurt if it was just implanted that day ( or within a day or so of when they arrived).


Just like mosquito bites supposedly have an anesthetic, maybe the implants have a weak anesthetic outer covering?


----------



## Alfer

mattack said:


> Just like mosquito bites supposedly have an anesthetic, maybe the implants have a weak anesthetic outer covering?


Yeah but these things are HUGE and stick WAY out and are easily noticeable...plus did these people not see the new scar on their body..I mean you couldn't heal from something like this in a few short hours.


----------



## marksman

Well another interesting episode for me. I did think the masks might end up being a reverse on the gas thing. Made me think of a don't be selfish connection. Perhaps the mother being so worried about her daughter is being selfish, same with Cameron killing his wife, sure it was for her best interest, but maybe it was really because it helped him...

Just spitballing what was going through my head.

Also what is up with the ahole, he becomes worse every time. He has tried to kill someone every episode so far, and he tried to sexual attack the one lady, I don't understand why they tolerate him.

Also liked the opening digging through the well. I had been thinking they need to stop figuring out how to escape and just see what happens, which is what the two in the hotel lobby seemed to realize near the end (although does crushed fortune cookie = opened fortune cookie?). So when they dug into the wall it was kind of funny, even though I had also been thinking they should try to tunnel under.

Anyways another good episode in my book, although I am getting anxious to develop a better understanding as to what is going on.


----------



## appleye1

marksman said:


> Also liked the opening digging through the well. ... So when they dug into the wall it was kind of funny, even though I had also been thinking they should try to tunnel under.


Although I think trying to tunnel out is stupid, if they want to try that again they should dig straight down around where the wall is and find out how deep it goes first. Also dig to the right and to the left to try and see if the wall goes alway around the town.

As for Cameron's wife, do we know for sure that she's dead? I don't recall ever seeing him actually complete the act or actually seeing her dead. With all of his crying and her struggling I felt there was some chance he had second thoughts and quit before he killed her. I was distracted a bit later in the show though, so I could have missed a confession or some other proof.


----------



## marksman

No you are right, we don't have any proof that she is dead. Although when confronted by crazy man and trying to justify himself, he seemed to imply she had died. Certainly earlier when the mother tried to get the gas mask from him, he implied his wife was still alive.

Obviously it is weird that they had a camera of him killing his wife, but as we saw with the Grandmother, they have cameras every where, so it will be interesting to see surveillance footage of all of them before this happened. Clearly they were all being watched before being abducted.


----------



## wprager

Alfer said:


> Yeah but these things are HUGE and stick WAY out and are easily noticeable...plus did these people not see the new scar on their body..I mean you couldn't heal from something like this in a few short hours.


And a pencil used as a stage prop is usually a lot bigger than the one you used in highschool. Just a possible explanation, although I can't disagree that the scars were huge.


----------



## wprager

I didn't even realize I missed an episode. Our NBC affiliate (the feed we are getting is Detroit) was running a special for the Target Fireworks special. Checked zap2it and it looks like the episode will run Wednesday.

Is it normal for affiliates to pre-empt prime time shows?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

wprager said:


> I didn't even realize I missed an episode. Our NBC affiliate (the feed we are getting is Detroit) was running a special for the Target Fireworks special. Checked zap2it and it looks like the episode will run Wednesday.
> 
> Is it normal for affiliates to pre-empt prime time shows?


It happens from time to time. Rarely, but it happens. (At least around here).

Most often for local sports events. I can remember a couple of time when Billy Graham-type religious revivals preempted network programming, but that was a while ago; I think placing religious proselytizing over network programming turned out to be a lot less popular than they imagined. The same station used to do an occasional prime-time special on "People Who Care," about people active in local charities.

Around the same period, another station used to preempt the network for high school sports tournaments. I guess they both figured out that their cut of the network ad revenue was still higher than having all the revenue from their own programming that nobody watched. Even major-league sports tends to be on cable now much more often than network stations preempting regular programming...


----------



## Alfer

So when is this ending? the DVR found one more future ep....


----------



## mwhip

Alfer said:


> So when is this ending? the DVR found one more future ep....


13 total episodes, this was the 3rd so 10 more.


----------



## MasterCephus

I like this show so far. I have a feeling that we'll start seeing each person have a shady past, not just the guy with the wife who had cancer. 

It was revealed that the obnoxious guy isn't a used-car salesman, might be interesting what he does...


----------



## marksman

Oh yeah I have a thought about him too.. I was thinking maybe he is some kind of plant in there to really push these people. Like I said he has tried to essentially kill 3 different people and sexually attack another... So maybe he is part of the plan or a mole so to speak.

By the way why are they not sick of eating Chinese and how can such a small town have a paint store.


----------



## Hcour

So Annoying Guy tells Ferris Bueller Guy that he saw him smother his wife on a tv in the tv repair shop and FB Guy doesn't go, like, "What?! You saw it ON TV? WTH?" Naaa, he just lets it go. C'mon... That's pretty sloppy writing.


----------



## marksman

Yeah I didn't think about that.. He certainly should have been questioning that more... or even disbelieving it leading him to be much more suspicious of that guy.

The natural reaction would be one of complete unbelievability as I suspect most people would never believe their bedrooms were being filmed by some unknown party.


----------



## stellie93

That's info that should be shared with the others, too. We're getting into the Lost syndrom here with each little pair keeping secrets from the rest. 

So is the reporter really Janet's husband? Are we supposed to know who the guy who threatened him is? So now they're going to question him, which I would think is the last thing the bad guys want.


----------



## marksman

I hate to be every other post in this thread, but I will get over it.

I don't think he is the husband of the reporter. I think the private investigator is simply trying to set him up to get him out of the picture.

I assume there is some more information to set him up which will just make him sound like a crazy liar with something to hide....


----------



## astrohip

[so you won't be every other post ]

I got the distinct feeling that was a 'shopped photo, to create some trouble for the reporter. This entire conspiracy seems to be fairly widespread--video before they were kidnapped, reporter being harassed, an incredible amount of prep work in town (how far DOES that steel barrier go?); there doesn't appear to be a stone unturned. Hopefully we will be given dribs & drabs of knowledge to keep us sated; I'm not ready for another LOST.

BTW, I'm slightly confused. The guy who beat up the reporter--where do we know him from?


----------



## Fool Me Twice

I'm not enjoying this as much as I want to. I really like the premise and just love this type of story, but I don't find myself invested in any of the characters. It's short enough and I like the genre enough that I'll stick it out, but still...

Last week when main actress lady was going crazy about her kid I didn't care--not about her, her kid, the other character she had the gun pointed at--not about anyone. And this week when main actress lady was going crazy about her kid again I still didn't care. And next week when she inevitably starts whining about her kid again, I still won't care.

I'm also bored with the little character background moments: I'm not crazy (or am I?), I'm a soldier and a muslim. I'm a spoiled brat with surprisingly strong martial arts skills. What an eclectic bunch we are, don't you find us interesting? No, not really.

Ferris Beuller guy is the only character I'm buying at the moment. The main actor guy doesn't annoy me yet, but they're saving his revelation for a later date.

I'm enjoying real world section of the story more than the town part. 

The hotel guy looks familiar to me, but IMDB doesn't list anything else for him. He must just have one of those faces. 

I wonder how much the super evil genius bad guys are spending on this little enterprise?

When the gas started flowing into the hotel and the panicked people didn't bother trying to break the giant glass windows... Sigh...


----------



## Steveknj

marksman said:


> Oh yeah I have a thought about him too.. I was thinking maybe he is some kind of plant in there to really push these people. Like I said he has tried to essentially kill 3 different people and sexually attack another... So maybe he is part of the plan or a mole so to speak.
> 
> By the way why are they not sick of eating Chinese and how can such a small town have a paint store.


That was my thought, he's a plant. He's been trying to get under the skin of just about all of them, acting obnoxious and goading them on.

My other thought is that all of these people are part of some psychological experiment and are all from some psychiatric hospital. They all seem to have some mental abnormality. There's the one woman who already admitted to being a patient. The blond seams to have anger issues. The brunette may have had her daughter taken away by her mom for some reason. There's the guy who may or may not have killed his wife, there's the soldier, perhaps a victim of battle fatigue and the mystery guy who we don't know much about yet. SO perhaps this is all a game to help each of them find themselves and figure it all out. Maybe they are doing this against their will, which would explain ex-hubby reporter trying to find them.


----------



## jschuur

Steveknj said:


> My other thought is that all of these people are part of some psychological experiment and are all from some psychiatric hospital. They all seem to have some mental abnormality.


Generally speaking all people have some kind of mental abnormality (at least those that are TV characters). Some just hide it better than others or get away with it


----------



## astrohip

astrohip said:


> I got the distinct feeling that was a 'shopped photo, to create some trouble for the reporter.


Just read Tom & Lo, and they have some pretty convincing points that make me think I'm wrong. So now I'm back to thinking that is her baby daddy.

http://tomandlorenzo2.blogspot.com/2010/06/persons-unknown-s1e3-way-through.html


----------



## RGM1138

Maybe they're training for a mission to mars. 

If any of these people were likable or even interesting, it might be worth the journey. Right now I just want to FF to the end.

Plus, I don't completely trust that NBC won't pull this before the denouement.

Bob


----------



## SorenTodd

Finally caught up with all 3 eps, so I'm in for the whole ride. There's a classic Twilight Zone episode called "Stopover in a Quiet Town", and that's exactly what this show reminds me of.

I see that NBC has already changed the schedule (so now Persons will kick off the night instead of ending it). Let's just pray that they will show the remaining 10 eps; I really want to see how this thing finishes out.


----------



## marksman

I just think their assessment is way off on that. They approach it as it being revealed he is the husband of her.

To me they simply revealed this private detective was trying to set him up as a suspect for her disappearance because he will not stay out of their business. There is no actual evidence that he is her ex-husband.

They talk about cheating and such because the reporter had no emotional reaction to any of this, and that is because it is not his ex-wife. There entire assessment is based on he being her wife, yet if you look at everything knowing he is not his wife it all makes perfect sense.

I am not sure they thought this through. They saw the picture, and had an instant reaction and never let go. I had the same reaction for a short period of time but quickly realized it was likely doctored. I know others who watched it with me also wondered if he was her husband.

Bottom line is their reasoning for what is going on doesn't support their own position, but it is supported by the position that he is not her husband.



> But here's our criticism: they cheated because there was no emotional reaction at all from this character about anything he was researching, not even meeting his own daughter face to face. We're sure he's got good reasons for being so sneaky, but in retrospect, some of his reactions come off a little cold.


We live in an age where any picture should be instantly suspected as not being genuine. So why they so whole heartedly accepted that picture as genuine given the motives and actions of the private detective, I am not sure I understand.


----------



## wprager

The hotel guy reminds me of Twin Peaks. Not really sure why.

The photo looked definitely photoshopped. She's all smiles and he looks like he is in a lineup.

I cheered when the "car salesman" got the ass-whupping; been waiting for it since his first scene. 

I agree that I find it hard to care about the woman worried about her daughter. I think it's the (over)acting.


----------



## goblue97

Fool Me Twice said:


> The hotel guy looks familiar to me, but IMDB doesn't list anything else for him. He must just have one of those faces.


I was thinking the same thing. The only person I can think of though is the "inconceivable" guy from the Princess Bride.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

goblue97 said:


> I was thinking the same thing. The only person I can think of though is the "inconceivable" guy from the Princess Bride.


Wallace Shawn?!? He was a good twice the hotel clerk's age when he made Princess Bride...a quarter-century ago!


----------



## goblue97

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Wallace Shawn?!? He was a good twice the hotel clerk's age when he made Princess Bride...a quarter-century ago!


I don't think it's him. He just reminded me of him for some reason. I still think I've seen that guy somewhere before though.


----------



## SeanC

marksman said:


> I don't think he is the husband of the reporter. I think the private investigator is simply trying to set him up to get him out of the picture.
> 
> I assume there is some more information to set him up which will just make him sound like a crazy liar with something to hide....


This is what I thought as well.


----------



## Cainebj

According to my to do list - Tonight June 28th the show is on at 8 instead of 10.

Just a heads up - hopefully since we all have TiVo's it will be taken care of automatically.


----------



## SeanC

Mine is listed to record at 8 as well.


----------



## obixman

Didn't see that character as the mole. I still feel like there may be more than one mole. What did anyone figure out as to the motivations of the "keepers?"


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

obixman said:


> What did anyone figure out as to the motivations of the "keepers?"


Well, there's a "process." So I guess the questions are, what is it meant to accomplish? Whose process is it? Why were these people chosen to undergo it? Who chose them?

Looks like all the speculation that the photo of the reporter and the mom was fake turned out to be wrong!


----------



## Lopey

It also looked like he's forced to be there too, when he was being asked if he was threatening to withdraw.


----------



## SeanC

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Looks like all the speculation that the photo of the reporter and the mom was fake turned out to be wrong!


Whoops, never expected them to go with the obvious!


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Lopey said:


> It also looked like he's forced to be there too, when he was being asked if he was threatening to withdraw.


That's not what I got from that scene. It seemed to me that they were asking him if he was still with the program, with the implication that there's only one way out of the program. So, this is something that he signed up for, that he can't back out of, and that he is coming to regret. He's not being forced to be there so much as he is being forced to live with the consequences of his decision.

I also thought he was lying when he said he still believed in the process, because to say "no" would be to commit suicide.


----------



## wouldworker

I'm not going to watch anymore. It's clear that we're supposed to find Janet to be a sympathetic character (Joe is risking everything for her now), but I find nothing about her to like. I can't find anything to like about the other characters either. I don't care what happens to them. The same thing happened with Lost. TV shows don't seem to bother with the first act anymore.

None of the plot stands up to scrutiny. Slimy guy is blackmailing CharlieChuck by threatening to turn him in for killing his wife. How's that going to work? "How do you know the alleged murderer?" "We were kidnapped and held captive in a fake town and I saw him murder her on TV." "Kthxbye."

Janet's mother never met Janet's ex-husband or saw a picture of him? I'm supposed to believe that?

Tori is apologizing to her father. Then she explains that her father whored her out to his buddies. What is she apologizing for exactly?

That was the cab driver from How I Met Your Mother, wasn't it?


----------



## scooterboy

wouldworker said:


> None of the plot stands up to scrutiny. Slimy guy is blackmailing CharlieChuck by threatening to turn him in for killing his wife. How's that going to work? "How do you know the alleged murderer?" "We were kidnapped and held captive in a fake town and I saw him murder her on TV." "Kthxbye."


My problem with this was much simpler:

CharlieChuck calls his bluff. Slimy tells others "he killed his wife". Others ask "Really? What proof do you have, Slimy?" Slimy says "Ummmm...."



> Janet's mother never met Janet's ex-husband or saw a picture of him? I'm supposed to believe that?


I was wondering that as well.


----------



## Hcour

Gee, mole-guy and what's-her-name ended up back in the town. Who didn't see that coming?

Why am I still watching this?


----------



## porges

I'm busy trying to save an earlier theory I had, which is that everyone is there voluntarily, but they've agreed to have their memory of the agreement erased first. Why, I don't know. But note that Tori somehow knew she was going home, got up in the middle of the night, and hey, there's a taxi! So that suggests some kind of mental programming or something.


----------



## Test

Is this all just some kind of XTREME rehab clinic?


----------



## moot

Hcour said:


> Gee, mole-guy and what's-her-name ended up back in the town. Who didn't see that coming?


I knew it was going to happen, but was still annoyed when it did. You'd think one of them would at least try to keep a bearing on East/West via the sun and recognize that they're going the wrong way (especially since what's-her-name knows enough about star constellations to know which hemisphere they're in).

Yeah it's corny and sometimes silly, but I'm still enjoying it. In my head, this is what the recent The Prisoner remake should have been like. It has all the same playful cat & mouse between the unknown captors and prisoners, but doesn't make me feel like the writers were on drugs (as with the actual Prisoner remake).


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

moot said:


> I knew it was going to happen, but was still annoyed when it did. You'd think one of them would at least try to keep a bearing on East/West via the sun and recognize that they're going the wrong way (especially since what's-her-name knows enough about star constellations to know which hemisphere they're in).


But it would probably be pretty easy for him to subtly guide her in a circle, since he's in on it.

Was he the one driving the van when they tried before?


----------



## Ruth

I am going to power through with this show because I want to find out what is going on, but at the same time aspects of it are just kind of grating on me b/c they make no sense.

What was the _point_ of having them leave in a taxi only to be brought back? Why not just keep them in the town the entire time? Why on earth would the captors bother to go through that charade? And why would she be so trusting that the captors would just call her a taxi and let her leave in the first place? The whole thing just made no sense.

I was intrigued by learning that Joe is in on the plot. The obvious question is "process for _what_?"


----------



## RGM1138

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But it would probably be pretty easy for him to subtly guide her in a circle, since he's in on it.
> 
> Was he the one driving the van when they tried before?


Actually, it was Mr. Obnox driving. But, I've felt all along that he was a mole/plant. His actions are way over the top.


----------



## wouldworker

Ruth said:


> What was the _point_ of having them leave in a taxi only to be brought back? Why not just keep them in the town the entire time? Why on earth would the captors bother to go through that charade? And why would she be so trusting that the captors would just call her a taxi and let her leave in the first place? The whole thing just made no sense.


From a story point of view, the point was to give Joe a reason to be sympathetic to Janet. She "saved" him from the bees, and did it all sexy-like to boot (straddling him and gently blowing one of them off of his face). I agree that it makes no sense from the captors' point of view, but the writers don't seem to care about the characters' motivations. Everything exists to service the plot.


----------



## moot

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But it would probably be pretty easy for him to subtly guide her in a circle, since he's in on it.


I thought that, but when they came to a road, wasn't it he that asked "which way?" and her that chose to head back in the direction of the town? I wonder if he would have corrected her if she chose the wrong way?



Ruth said:


> What was the _point_ of having them leave in a taxi only to be brought back? Why not just keep them in the town the entire time?


Because now they know that they're surrounded by desolate nothingness for _miles_. Any delusions they may have had about walking their way out of that town should now effectively be crushed... at least until it gets warmer at night.


----------



## Hcour

Ruth said:


> I am going to power through with this show because I want to find out what is going on, but at the same time aspects of it are just kind of grating on me b/c they make no sense.
> 
> What was the _point_ of having them leave in a taxi only to be brought back? Why not just keep them in the town the entire time? Why on earth would the captors bother to go through that charade? And why would she be so trusting that the captors would just call her a taxi and let her leave in the first place? The whole thing just made no sense.


Exactly. Nothing really happened, the whole thing was pointless. It just felt like a red herring. And I agree with others, the woman could map the stars but couldn't determine a direction away from where they'd just been?

I'm willing to suspend disbelief but this show is asking too much. But I'll probably stick around since it's a brief run, just to see the explanation.


----------



## stellie93

Ruth said:


> And why would she be so trusting that the captors would just call her a taxi and let her leave in the first place?


Yes, the plan about everyone exchanging names and info to call their families kind of points out how impossible it would be for them to let anyone go. Even if you can't tell them where you were, you could raise enough heat to cause trouble.

Joe tried to discourage her from taking the cab--I wonder if that's what he's supposed to do? And the whole bee thing... Was that planned out and he isn't really allergic, or did they put him in danger because he isn't doing his job very well?


----------



## Hcour

I'm curious, does everyone pretty much agree that there is some kind mind-frack, psychological test, something along those lines? Otherwise, many of the events, like the gas masks, make absolutely no sense. That has to be part of it.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

I don't think a test so much as some kind of programming. Remember, the Chinese restaurant guy referred to it as "the process."


----------



## mattack

Ruth said:


> What was the _point_ of having them leave in a taxi only to be brought back? Why not just keep them in the town the entire time? Why on earth would the captors bother to go through that charade?


Umm, on the Prisoner, didn't they lead him to believe that he had escaped several times?


----------



## mattack

This show is reminding me of a non-violent version of Cube, for some reason..


----------



## atrac

DoombFlon said:


> This a discussion thread for the ODI series between India and Australia bhai-log
> 
> as munna couldnt find a thread already started for this topic, so munna took the honor to post the official announcement of the discussion of the much-awaited Ind-Aussie series bhai-log


Huh? Am I the only one who noticed this earlier in the thread?


----------



## wprager

atrac said:


> Huh? Am I the only one who noticed this earlier in the thread?


No, but you may be the only one who didn't ignore it, as one should. Report it if you have to, but don't respond to it.

My WAG is that they are some Manchurian Candidate-like deep, deep sleeper agents of some sort that didn't "wake up". Now they are here to be "fixed".

Or this is sort of like The Game but with a different purpose. Maybe an elaborate intervention where they are supposed to learn some valuable lesson. That way they could continue it as a series of sorts, kind of like Fantasy Island but with guest stars lasting a 10-12 episode arc instead of a single episode.

Or not.


----------



## Steveknj

moot said:


> I knew it was going to happen, but was still annoyed when it did. You'd think one of them would at least try to keep a bearing on East/West via the sun and recognize that they're going the wrong way (especially since what's-her-name knows enough about star constellations to know which hemisphere they're in).
> 
> Yeah it's corny and sometimes silly, but I'm still enjoying it. In my head, this is what the recent The Prisoner remake should have been like. It has all the same playful cat & mouse between the unknown captors and prisoners, but doesn't make me feel like the writers were on drugs (as with the actual Prisoner remake).


Totally agree. Yeah, there are plot holes, but it seems like a fun ride for now. Here's what most got me. They were OUTSIDE the town, they come back to the town and voluntarily come back in? Why not just turn around and go the other way (my first thought was the black truck is like the big bubble in The Prisoner....used to keep them in town if they get out), but still, there's a lot of land there, why not just go in a different direction? But of course we now know the mole was with Janet outside the fence, so it makes a bit more sense.

A thought occurred to me that this is ALL about Janet. But then why would they show us all the goings on with the salesman dude and the wife murderer? Or the debutante back story? I'm still sticking with them all being in some mental institution and they are on some experimental mind altering drugs, and the doctors are watching.


----------



## Steveknj

wouldworker said:


> From a story point of view, the point was to give Joe a reason to be sympathetic to Janet. She "saved" him from the bees, and did it all sexy-like to boot (straddling him and gently blowing one of them off of his face). I agree that it makes no sense from the captors' point of view, but the writers don't seem to care about the characters' motivations. Everything exists to service the plot.


I just thought that it another scare tactic. One, it goes toward trust, do you trust anything that it happening either from each other or from outside forces. Second, showing that even though they might be able to get out of the town, they are being watched and can be killed if they do. I think it's all designed to hype up their paranoia.


----------



## moot

Steveknj said:


> Here's what most got me. They were OUTSIDE the town, they come back to the town and voluntarily come back in? Why not just turn around and go the other way


I got the impression that they'd been wandering the countryside for almost 2 days and were practically freezing to death (Janet's lips were very blue in the elevator). Even with this, she was ready to turn around and try to get away again, but Joe convinced her otherwise. Although we now know he likely had other motives for his opinion, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that the weather might actually have been a very real concern for both of them, enough to make them choose the town over potentially freezing to death overnight.

Personally, the "Pain Wall" seems a bit unsteady for me. It kills small animals, shatters bottles, and microwaves people trying to leave the town almost all the time... but cars drive through it (and the people inside) just fine, Mr. Night Manager ran through it to no effect, and Janet & Joe were able to walk through it into the town. Is there someone behind the cameras watching and turning it on/off as needed, or is what we've seen some property of how they're automated.


----------



## pjenkins

moot said:


> Is there someone behind the cameras watching and turning it on/off as needed


that's what i've assumed, since they monitor/control everything, they decide when to turn it on/off depending on the situation...

personally, if i'm in the town with that cool wall, I'm chucking all kinds of things into it to see what it does. i like explosions and stuff, i guess


----------



## jsmeeker

Steveknj said:


> A thought occurred to me that this is ALL about Janet. But then why would they show us all the goings on with the salesman dude and the wife murderer? Or the debutante back story? I'm still sticking with them all being in some mental institution and they are on some experimental mind altering drugs, and the doctors are watching.


Speaking of back stories, why doesn't everyone have a more develope one by now?

We have seen several flash backs with the Hot Blonde. But we know very litle about the soldier and the car salesman. And really, not much more about the mental patient.

Speaking of Hot Blonde, I hope she comes back. And with a new dress.


----------



## marksman

So this week's episode we had bad weather, and a chunk of the first 15 minutes were missing. Can someone sum up what happened in terms of the cab coming to get them and stuff. Basically missed from the first minute until they were in the cab and the cabbie got a flat tire.

I will download it and try to watch it, but I would rather just try to fill it in.


----------



## DancnDude

moot said:


> I thought that, but when they came to a road, wasn't it he that asked "which way?" and her that chose to head back in the direction of the town? I wonder if he would have corrected her if she chose the wrong way?


I was thinking both ways probably led back to town. Seems like they took the van down the road from one end of town to the other, perhaps it was the same road.


----------



## DancnDude

marksman said:


> So this week's episode we had bad weather, and a chunk of the first 15 minutes were missing. Can someone sum up what happened in terms of the cab coming to get them and stuff. Basically missed from the first minute until they were in the cab and the cabbie got a flat tire.
> 
> I will download it and try to watch it, but I would rather just try to fill it in.


Mostly the cabbie guy didn't speak English but the military dude knew some of his language. The cabbie said he needed to take the mom and she could take somebody else so she asked Joe to go. He never said where they were going.


----------



## porges

DancnDude said:


> Mostly the cabbie guy didn't speak English but the military dude knew some of his language. The cabbie said he needed to take the mom and she could take somebody else so she asked Joe to go.


Which, I thought at the time, was the wrong answer, the right answer being "I'll take the guy who knows a even a little of the language this driver speaks."


----------



## Cainebj

Plot holes smot holes. 
This is fast becoming my favorite new show of the summer 

It really does have the elongated Twilight Zone episode feel to and I'm kinda lovin that it will all play out (or so they say) by the end of the run.


----------



## styre

Persons Unknown Will Be Even Less Known
http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/06/persons_unknown_nbc.html

not cancelled, just moving nights


----------



## marksman

thanks for the fill in...

I knew this show was in trouble and moving nights is not a good sign dang it.. just leave it alone.

Seriously what is the point in moving this. They are talking about what amounts to likely thousands of dollars. it is so silly...

After they found out people liked the show they should have been rerunning the first few episodes to get people on board.

edit: I have no problem with this going to saturday nights, actually it is awesome because nothing is on then.. problem is they will just cancel the show in two more weeks, so this is horrible.

Like I said, they did zero promotion of these show before it aired (except on 100 questions), and once they found out the little audience they had actually really liked it, they did nothing to try and push it and get new people into it. So know they are just killing it, and I can't see it lasting 8 or 9 more weeks on saturday... I hope it does.... but I just don't trust any network to do that.


----------



## moot

DancnDude said:


> The cabbie said he needed to take the mom and she could take somebody else so she asked Joe to go.


Random thought... the cabbie took 2 people. Prior to that, the Night Manager said ONE of them would be checking out. So maybe he wasn't referring to that cab, but to the one that later came to pick up blondie (meaning that her begging & pleading to the cameras had no effect, she was going to get picked up anyway).


----------



## Ruth

Moving to Saturday? Ugh. This isn't the greatest show ever, but I was hoping to see how things turn out. Now I fear that will never happen.


----------



## Hcour

moot said:


> Random thought... the cabbie took 2 people. Prior to that, the Night Manager said ONE of them would be checking out. So maybe he wasn't referring to that cab, but to the one that later came to pick up blondie (meaning that her begging & pleading to the cameras had no effect, she was going to get picked up anyway).


That's exactly what I thought, fer shure.


----------



## jsmeeker

Ruth said:


> Moving to Saturday? Ugh. This isn't the greatest show ever, but I was hoping to see how things turn out. Now I fear that will never happen.


Yeah..

It's not great. But I got sucked in enough to want to know what is going on and who kidnapped all these people and what they plan to do with themm


----------



## mrdazzo7

Finally watched the last two eps so I can once again join the conversation. 

The show is walking a very fine line for me right now. Some aspects of it are absolutely annoying, like when the hostages get together and openly discuss the plans for their latest escape attempt, knowing FULL WELL everything they say and do is monitored. "Hey lets dig a tunnel for five days and totally sneak out, they'll never see it coming!" or "everyone grab flammable stuff and start a signal fire--they'll be totally caught off guard!". So annoying. 

*I think the point of Janet and Joe leaving was to make her realize that they can't simply leave. There is nowhere to go. It also bonded her to Joe, which I'm sure will serve the story since he seems to be wavering in whatever his mission is. 

*I like the twist of Renbe being Janet's husband because it actually opens up a lot. Before that I thought her husband was obviously behind her abduction and he was set up to look like a dick but now I'm thinking he's really on her side. He obviously has no idea what happened to her, and is risking his life to figure it out. Maybe whatever broke them up wasn't his fault (probably her mother (aka worst actress on the show)). 

*Blackham is probably the worst character I've ever seen on TV. I have no idea if it's the actor or the writing but it's shockingly inconsistent and unrealistic. One minute he's a drunk idiot, the next he's normal, then he's a rapist, then he looks shocked when he sees Charlie killing his wife, but then smiles and pitches business ideas. Awful. 

At this point I'm not hating it to where I'll stop watching. It's entertaining enough, especially in the void of summer. I'm definitely more inclined to watch since it's a mini-series type deal, so at the very least I know it will have an ending.


----------



## mattack

marksman said:


> After they found out people liked the show they should have been rerunning the first few episodes to get people on board.


Found out people liked the show? Where? It got terrible ratings AFAIK.. (admittedly I didn't search for specific ratings)


----------



## Steveknj

Ruth said:


> Moving to Saturday? Ugh. This isn't the greatest show ever, but I was hoping to see how things turn out. Now I fear that will never happen.


We have TiVos/DVRs who cares what day it's on? I don't think this is more than a summer show anyway. Now if they took it completely off the air, I'd be upset. Of course that could be the next step.


----------



## Cainebj

Steveknj said:


> We have TiVos/DVRs who cares what day it's on?


I think what the other poster was expressing is that the move to Saturday means the possibility that they might just yank it entirely before it ends... I remember last fall waiting patiently for the DVD of Defying Gravity to be released just so I could watch the 3 or 4 episodes that never aired.


----------



## Ruth

Cainebj said:


> I think what the other poster was expressing is that the move to Saturday means the possibility that they might just yank it entirely before it ends...


Yes, that's what I was saying. As a timeshifter, I don't care at all when it airs for my watching purposes -- but moving a show to this particular timeslot often is a sign that the network is losing confidence in a show and will soon pull it off the air completely.


----------



## astrohip

Hopefully, since this is a limited run series, NBC will finish it. It's not like they have a ratings pleaser just waiting in the wings. There are probably 8 or so eps left (we've had four). Let it run thru July/Aug, and they'll be done.


----------



## photoshopgrl

Just caught this show after a friend at work was talking about it. I downloaded the first 4 episodes and while alot of it leaves the realm of believability for me, it's still entertaining and I'm along for the ride.



wouldworker said:


> Janet's mother never met Janet's ex-husband or saw a picture of him? I'm supposed to believe that?


I bought this because the mother said she was out of her daughter's life until very recently. And the reporter/husband obviously hadn't been around since the girl was born. No reason they would have seen each other. I'm sure Janet removed his pictures too. Who wants a reminder of someone that walked out on you when you were pregnant?



porges said:


> Which, I thought at the time, was the wrong answer, the right answer being "I'll take the guy who knows a even a little of the language this driver speaks."


I thought this too but the military guy wanted no part of getting into that cab.



astrohip said:


> Hopefully, since this is a limited run series, NBC will finish it. It's not like they have a ratings pleaser just waiting in the wings. There are probably 8 or so eps left (we've had four). Let it run thru July/Aug, and they'll be done.


According to TVRage, it's scheduled through Sept 4. 
http://www.tvrage.com/Persons_Unknown/episode_list/
I really hope they let it finish out being that it's a limited run show.


----------



## jsmeeker

What the heck is going on here?

I guess Tori really is dead. They take here away, then kill her and dump her in a foutain in Rome. Then the new girl. From prison. She says she already IS dead. Is this fugratively, since she is (was) on death row?

At least someone finally noticed something is going on with Joe. Of course, I think they are overdoing the thing with Joe constantly going behind the scenes to raise hell over Janet.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

jsmeeker said:


> I guess Tori really is dead. They take here away, then kill her and dump her in a foutain in Rome. Then the new girl. From prison. She says she already IS dead. Is this fugratively, since she is (was) on death row?


She thought she had been executed by lethal injection, but obviously she was injected with something else.


----------



## stargazer21

We laughed at the last line..."I don't know how this is gonna end. But I have a feeling it won't be good." Kinda how I feel about the show.  (But I am still watching...just in case...)


----------



## DancnDude

I still like it. I wonder why they let the brunette see fabricated story on TV that blondie was still alive. Still mind games? 

And what was the point of locking those two in the vault? Would it open if one of them killed the other and that person would have been the "winner" and been let out? They said both of them suffrocating would have been one of the possible scenarios. It makes me wonder if the town is set up to put people in increadible situations where there's an underground gambling ring which is betting on the possible outcomes.

I would imagine none of the people in the town would leave alive because otherwise they could expose the town's existence. For "security" everybody who has been abducted would have to die wouldn't they?


----------



## moot

jsmeeker said:


> At least someone finally noticed something is going on with Joe. Of course, I think they are overdoing the thing with Joe constantly going behind the scenes to raise hell over Janet.


He was starting to really get on my nerves this episode. How many times is he going to barge in on the other guy before they change the locks on him?

Although, I suspect that this is a Dharma-style situation where yes, the watchers are monitoring what they think is some kind of experiment on others, but that doesn't mean that they, themselves, aren't also part of a different experiment.

Different subject... how many missing persons are there in the US at any given time? I'd suspect quite a few. Kind of a stretch for Renbe to print out the first page of names of missing persons and expect them all to be related somehow.


----------



## verdugan

moot said:


> How many times is he going to barge in on the other guy before they change the locks on him?


HAHA I made the same comment. I like the show, but my wife thought the show was stupid and got up.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

moot said:


> Different subject... how many missing persons are there in the US at any given time? I'd suspect quite a few. Kind of a stretch for Renbe to print out the first page of names of missing persons and expect them all to be related somehow.


Yeah, I kept expecting him to explain why those particular names were linked. Either he's holding out on us, or he has Magic TV-Show Powers of Deduction.


----------



## wprager

Nobody mentioned this yet -- Dee! That was Kandyse McClure from BSG!


----------



## acvthree

moot said:


> Different subject... how many missing persons are there in the US at any given time? I'd suspect quite a few. Kind of a stretch for Renbe to print out the first page of names of missing persons and expect them all to be related somehow.


Am I reading this right? Did more get cleared than were entered. A net "found person" gain?

During 2005, 834,536 entries were made into the National Crime Information Center's missing person file, which was an increase of 0.51% from the 830,325 entered in 2004. Missing Person records that were cleared or canceled during the same period totaled 844,838. The reasons for these removals include: a law enforcement agency located the subject, the individual returned home, or the record had to be removed by the entering agency due to a determination that the record is invalid.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_person


----------



## marksman

mattack said:


> Found out people liked the show? Where? It got terrible ratings AFAIK.. (admittedly I didn't search for specific ratings)


That doesn't mean people who watch the show don't like it.

Personally I find this season of this show to be better than the first season of Lost.

They did no promotion of the show at all. Most people here did not even know about it until it showed up on the schedule the night it was on.

A show doesn't gain strong initial ratings because it is good, it gets strong initial ratings because it was well marketed. My point is, once they saw people were into the show and interested in following it, they should have taken that as a sign to try and promote the show and build an audience. Unfortunately with this kind of show you can't really build an audience starting 5 weeks in, so going back and giving people a chance to start from the beginning is important.


----------



## marksman

The interesting thing to me with the most recent episode is there seems to be some strong issue with death and morality. You have the death penalty, assisted suicide, potential decisions by the army man, them constantly trying to provoke Janet to kill someone there etc etc.

Is this some kind of global extortion plot where all these people are just pawns? Seems hard to see how someone who died on death row might fit into that.


----------



## Fl_Gulfer

It is a strange show but I'm in for the whole season.


----------



## Test

Did Joe use the elevator to get into the secret viewing room?


----------



## mtnagel

Test said:


> Did Joe use the elevator to get into the secret viewing room?


Yeah and I think it was Myoira (sp?) that noticed so I assume she's going to be suspicious now.


----------



## jbx

Test said:


> Did Joe use the elevator to get into the secret viewing room?


Yeah he got into the elevator and pushed around 6 or 7 buttons (I'm assuming some sort of code or password type thing) and then the door closed and the hospital chick noticed the elevator floor indicator never moved.

What I find curious is we have the new girl just come in alone and appear outside but when all the others came they all showed up in separate rooms and appeared to all be closely timed togther. I was starting to think this is maybe some sort of experiment where only way out is to die or kill someone else and Joe had just survived several groups but refused to kill anyone so he has been here much longer and knows why but if he was just someone stuck who outlives everyone I don't think he would then have access to the control rooms.


----------



## Hcour

Wait. So there's a camera in the office of the newspaper editor too? Huh?

I love the way the new girl, having absolutely no idea where she is, just up and throws herself through a window. Yeah, right.

And they killed the blond babe. The fat annoying guy is still there, while the hot blond gets it.

I hate this show. Why am I still watching it? Somebody stop me!


----------



## RGM1138

I think they let a lot of air out of this show by exposing Joe as an insider so soon.

And having the new girl whiplash from being a feral killer to Janet's BFF seemed an awfully quick turnaround.


----------



## DevdogAZ

RGM1138 said:


> And having the new girl whiplash from being a feral killer to Janet's BFF seemed an awfully quick turnaround.


I agree that it was a pretty quick turn, but I think they explained it pretty well. She's been on death row and probably had to fear anyone and everyone she came in contact with for many years. Yet when Janet got the knife, Janet didn't try to kill her, and that probably made Erika realize that this place isn't as brutal as what she's used to.


----------



## marksman

Test said:


> Did Joe use the elevator to get into the secret viewing room?


Yeah I beleive there is a basement level he can get to through the elevator. The one time he went down in the elevator, remember the guy said you better get back up there.

He could also get there via the Chinese Restaurant too.



Hcour said:


> Wait. So there's a camera in the office of the newspaper editor too? Huh?


They have shown cameras in all sorts of places outside of this environment. They have a video of the one guy killing his wife. Why would them having a camera in the newspaper editor's office be weird?



RGM1138 said:


> I think they let a lot of air out of this show by exposing Joe as an insider so soon.


One of the early story I read by the people making the show was they had no intent on hiding everything from the viewer. We are going to see what is going on behind the scenes. Thus I think showing us Joe is part of that. I doubt that is going to have any impact on where the story goes.



> And having the new girl whiplash from being a feral killer to Janet's BFF seemed an awfully quick turnaround.


I don't know. She was killed and then woke up in some strange place with people prodding her. She was likely very disorientated, as you might think one might be if they had thought they had died. After she got a chance to get her bearings and calm down a bit, it makes sense she settled down.

I do love the fact that she kicked the crap out of obnoxious guy and stole her clothes.


----------



## verdugan

marksman said:


> I do love the fact that she kicked the crap out of obnoxious guy and stole her clothes.


I also liked how she didn't apologize to him.


----------



## stellie93

wprager said:


> Nobody mentioned this yet -- Dee! That was Kandyse McClure from BSG!


Thank you! I thought she looked familiar. She did good at looking feral in the beginning.


----------



## mrdazzo7

It was an OK episode. I thought the new chick was WAY over-acting but when she explained that the last thing she remembers was being executed I thought that was a sufficient explanation, and a neat little twist... adds an interesting layer to things I think. 

Once they said that Erika had been killed and somehow revived, I though the next twist would be that Tori was actually alive after all... but I guess not. Whoever is pulling the strings made her father tape a fake press conference which was later shown to Moira. Speaking of Moira, they seem to be leading towars a love connection between her and the army guy (no idea what his name is). 

The cameras being the news office only makes sense because the people involved were likely keeping an eye on Mark Renbe / Cooper. Otherwise I'm not sure how the mystery group knew to put cameras there, since there was no connection otherwise. I did get a laugh out of most of the hostages being on the list Kat printed out--how many people go missing every day--there is no way they'd be able to make connections that fast. But that I can live with if it moves things forward. 

It's only a matter of time before Joe is dropped by his employers. I'd picture this group frowning upon one of their own disobeying orders so defiantly. 

Watching Blackham get his ass kicked by a tiny ninja was probably the best scene the show has done so far. That and the ninja's dive from a "who knows what floor I'm on?" window into a tuck-and-roll off the roof. Was there a dojo in her prison?


----------



## photoshopgrl

mrdazzo7 said:


> I did get a laugh out of most of the hostages being on the list Kat printed out--how many people go missing every day--there is no way they'd be able to make connections that fast. But that I can live with if it moves things forward.


I took that to be her just finishing what he was starting. A search of person's missing on a certain day/time kind of thing. So with that in mind, I bought that list being mostly the cast.


----------



## marksman

By the way no episode tonight monday. It moves to Saturdays this week, so it will be on this coming Saturday.


----------



## Hcour

mrdazzo7 said:


> Whoever is pulling the strings made her father tape a fake press conference which was later shown to Moira.


You may be right of course, but I thought it was probably an old press conference from some previous incident when his daughter had pulled some stunt and gotten a lot of publicity. She does have a reputation for being a "party girl" and all that.

And oh yeah, I agree the new girl's acting was pretty bad when she was running around being crazy. But then, the acting is definitely not the strong point in this show (except for Ferris Bueller guy, who's always good).


----------



## moot

Hcour said:


> You may be right of course, but I thought it was probably an old press conference from some previous incident when his daughter had pulled some stunt and gotten a lot of publicity.


If that was the case, then I don't get the phone call the father got thanking him for his "cooperation". Thanks for letting us kill your daughter? Doesn't seem to fit. But Thanks for giving a press conference saying she's fine? That makes sense to me.

It kind of made me wonder if the dad is a past "survivor" of a prior town-experiment. Maybe they have dirt on him doing something in the town and hold it over him as leverage?


----------



## mrdazzo7

moot said:


> If that was the case, then I don't get the phone call the father got thanking him for his "cooperation". Thanks for letting us kill your daughter? Doesn't seem to fit. But Thanks for giving a press conference saying she's fine? That makes sense to me.


Yeah I think you're right because the guy specifically said something about it being a "charade" which makes me think he filmed the mini-conference that was shown to moira specifically for that reason.

I wonder what Renbe and Janet's history is. In the pilot I thought they were setting up that she had this crazy horrible relationship with her ex in the present, but as the story goes on it seems they haven't had any contact at all since Megan was born, so what is the deal? Is he just a deadbeat dad who left his family, or is there a violent history between them? He seems dedicated to finding her even though it's putting his life at risk, so I wonder if he's doing it because he loves her, or if there is an evil reason.


----------



## wprager

And still non-one noticed that the "new girl" is Dee from BSG.


----------



## Jeeters

wprager said:


> And still non-one noticed that the "new girl" is Dee from BSG.


Sure some of us did. Just didn't mention it. I also noticed when she was in a few episodes of "Reaper" last year. Well, I guess the year before last year.


----------



## DevdogAZ

wprager said:


> And still non-one noticed that the "new girl" is Dee from BSG.


What are you talking about? You already pointed that out earlier in this thread. What more needs to be said about it?


----------



## scooterboy

Hey - did anyone notice that the "new girl" is Dee from BSG?


----------



## astrohip

What is BSG?

<jk> but there are some of us who never watched it, so can't get too excited over the return of Dee.


----------



## wprager

DevdogAZ said:


> What are you talking about? You already pointed that out earlier in this thread. What more needs to be said about it?


Have you ever said something in a (semi) crowded room -- something that *you* thought was kind of cool and interesting -- but after a few moments, from the lack of reaction, it felt like no-one heard what you said? That's a bit of what I'm talking about. When Katee Sackhoff was on Bionic Woman it was "Starbuck this" and "Starbuck that". Here, it's "the new girl". Just made me wonder if anyone actually read what I wrote or if I had typed it in invisible ink.


----------



## dbranco

wprager said:


> Have you ever said something in a (semi) crowded room -- something that *you* thought was kind of cool and interesting -- but after a few moments, from the lack of reaction, it felt like no-one heard what you said? That's a bit of what I'm talking about. When Katee Sackhoff was on Bionic Woman it was "Starbuck this" and "Starbuck that". Here, it's "the new girl". Just made me wonder if anyone actually read what I wrote or if I had typed it in invisible ink.


Yup, I know exactly what you mean.

When the actress appeared in this series, I KNEW the face, but just couldn't place her. This happens to me often, when an actor I know very well from another show appears again in a completely different role. I kept saying "I know her, I know her, but where??" Finally looked for her name in the credits and had an "oh yeah!" moment.


----------



## stellie93

Evidently I typed my last post--at the top of this page--in invisible ink when I responded to wprager.


----------



## wprager

stellie93 said:


> Evidently I typed my last post--at the top of this page--in invisible ink when I responded to wprager.


Sorry, missed it.

However I crank up my posts per page setting to max. What I see at the top of my page is "Moving to Saturday? Ugh."


----------



## wprager

By the way, I think the writers are too heavy-handed making the new character appear lesbian. Or am I the only one who noticed? The tough attitude, couldn't wait to get out of the "girly" dress and into man's pants/shirt, kept telling the other girl things like "Can't trust anyone -- *especially* men". 

Why is it, in Hollywood, lesbians hate men but gay men usually have women who are good friends?


----------



## Jeeters

wprager said:


> By the way, I think the writers are too heavy-handed making the new character appear lesbian. Or am I the only one who noticed? The tough attitude, couldn't wait to get out of the "girly" dress and into man's pants/shirt, kept telling the other girl things like "Can't trust anyone -- *especially* men".
> 
> Why is it, in Hollywood, lesbians hate men but gay men usually have women who are good friends?


I just thought she was just supposed to be a "street" girl. I don't think they're all that fond of frilly Summer dresses.


----------



## mrdazzo7

wprager said:


> Sorry, missed it.
> 
> However I crank up my posts per page setting to max. What I see at the top of my page is "Moving to Saturday? Ugh."


Speaking of which, do we think this means it's going away? I don't necessarily think so because what else is on saturdays that would do better? Saturdays during the regular season are bad enough, but I can't imagine this show doesn't do well enough to be there duiring the summer for the rest of it's run.

I'm not crazy into this show--the acting has some how gotten worse and I'm worried that the storyline could go either way. I'm hoping that whatever twists they have make some sense and that final revelations are good and not completely contrived (which is a big risk).

As for the new chick, I didn't necessarily think she was a lesbian (although you're right, it seems obvious that they were going down that road)--I just figured she was a tough street-dweller who spent too much time on death row. Her behavior (and man-clothes snatching) fit with someone who spent time in prison and would be more comfortable in sweats, etc.


----------



## DevdogAZ

It's not going away. NBC's promos have repeatedly said, "By the end of summer, all will be revealed." They're not going to screw their viewers over by pulling this show, and replacing it with lame reruns of America's Got Talent or something. They could maybe get slightly better ratings, but they'd also lose credibility for any serialized show they might want to air in the future, and that's not something they should take lightly.


----------



## wprager

NBC has credibility left?


----------



## mattack

mrdazzo7 said:


> Speaking of which, do we think this means it's going away? I don't necessarily think so because what else is on saturdays that would do better? Saturdays during the regular season are bad enough, but I can't imagine this show doesn't do well enough to be there duiring the summer for the rest of it's run.


I think they will air, unlike "Eastwick", which ABC promised to air.. then pulled at the last minute..


----------



## Hcour

Here's a thought - When they have to say something that would best be kept between themselves, like say, how they think Joe is in on it, how about, say, go in a corner somewhere and whisper it to each other or write it down? They know they're being watched/listened to, but they carry on as if it doesn't matter.

New Girl's badass act is already getting really old, she's the worst actress on a poorly-acted show. The hot blond couldn't act either, but then, she was a hot blond, so who cared?


----------



## wprager

Dibs? How can someone call "dibs" when they're the last on the scene?


----------



## Jeeters

wprager said:


> Dibs? How can someone call "dibs" when they're the last on the scene?


Because she called it first.


----------



## verdugan

Jeeters said:


> Because she called it first.


And she's willing to use antifreeze as her backup plan.

it sure took them long enough to revoke Joe's access, huh?

Oh, and why does Joe keep using the main elevator when he has his own little private one in his room?


----------



## DevdogAZ

So what was up with the last shot of Erika and the antifreeze? Does that mean she used antifreeze to poison Joe in the first place and that's how she knew Vodka would work as an antidote? If so, why did she have the can of it in her room and why was she pouring it down the sink? I thought the poisoning happened at the restaurant, so there was no reason for her to ever bring it up to her room, and no reason for her to dump it all out. She's still got to dispose of the can whether it's got antifreeze in it or not, so that didn't make sense to me at all.


verdugan said:


> Oh, and why does Joe keep using the main elevator when he has his own little private one in his room?


I'm guessing it's because there's no way to access the elevator from inside the room. If there were, it would be possible for one of the other "hostages" to find it.

Interesting statement by Tom when he was talking to Joe. "No single life is more important than the greater good this program does. You used to believe that." Do we think this is one of those misguided groups that thinks it's doing good when really they're delusional, or will the purpose behind this whole thing actually turn out to be benevolent?


----------



## Hcour

DevdogAZ said:


> or will the purpose behind this whole thing actually turn out to be benevolent?


I wondered about something like that. Is Blond Babe actually dead? Did the taxi driver really get killed (remember they didn't see his body)?


----------



## verdugan

DevdogAZ said:


> So what was up with the last shot of Erika and the antifreeze? Does that mean she used antifreeze to poison Joe in the first place and that's how she knew Vodka would work as an antidote?


That's how I interpreted it. She did it to get Joe out of the way so she could have Janet to herself. Tom made a comment when she saw Erika with Janet how the last thing they needed was a love triangle.


----------



## jsmeeker

DevdogAZ said:


> So what was up with the last shot of Erika and the antifreeze? Does that mean she used antifreeze to poison Joe in the first place and that's how she knew Vodka would work as an antidote? If so, why did she have the can of it in her room and why was she pouring it down the sink? I thought the poisoning happened at the restaurant, so there was no reason for her to ever bring it up to her room, and no reason for her to dump it all out. She's still got to dispose of the can whether it's got antifreeze in it or not, so that didn't make sense to me at all.


It was to show the audience that she was the one who poisoned Joe.


----------



## ADG

jsmeeker said:


> It was to show the audience that she was the one who poisoned Joe.


Right. But of course that raises the question of how he ingested it in the first place since he doesn't drink and there isn't much, other than alcohol, that could even almost disguise the taste of antifreeze. I'm hooked enough to want to see how it ends, but it's well past silly at this point.


----------



## photoshopgrl

I assumed it was in his sweet n sour pork since right after he ate it he was feeling sick.


----------



## Steveknj

I started out really loving this show, now I only kinda like it. Is it me or is this moving along WAY too slowly. I thought they promised we would understand what was going on fairly quickly? The only things we REALLY know is that there's someone on premises watching (we still don't know why), they have planted at least one person (Joe) and that somehow the Ambassador to Italy is involved, and he was the father of one of the captives. Otherwise, there's not much else of importance that we've found out in what, 4-5 episodes? I know they are trying to drag this out over 13, but I think this might have been a show best done in about 8. I think we need to know more about the background of some of the other characters...Joe, the obnoxious guy and the new gal. There STILL seems no rhyme or reason why these particular people would be linked and then captured.


----------



## Alfer

When will the show be over so we can get all our answers?


----------



## DevdogAZ

photoshopgrl said:


> I assumed it was in his sweet n sour pork since right after he ate it he was feeling sick.


That's what I assumed, which is why I don't understand what Erika was doing with the can of antifreeze in her room, and why she was pouring it down the sink. Doesn't make sense at all.


Alfer said:


> When will the show be over so we can get all our answers?


This was episode six of 13, so we're almost halfway done.


----------



## Alfer

DevdogAZ said:


> That's what I assumed, which is why I don't understand what Erika was doing with the can of antifreeze in her room, and why she was pouring it down the sink. Doesn't make sense at all.
> 
> This was episode six of 13, so we're almost halfway done.


Wow...got a long way to go...I wonder if it can last that long or will NBC give up and show the rest online only?

Aren't the ratings in the toilet?


----------



## DevdogAZ

Alfer said:


> Wow...got a long way to go...I wonder if it can last that long or will NBC give up and show the rest online only?
> 
> Aren't the ratings in the toilet?


Yes, the ratings suck. That's why NBC moved it to Saturday. But I think that's as far as they'll go. It's not like they're going to get huge ratings out of anything else on a summer Saturday, so they'll just bite the bullet and let it finish its run. However, it doesn't bode well for future serialized shows.


----------



## verdugan

Steveknj said:


> The only things we REALLY know is ...


Good summary.

One thing that threw me off a bit during this episode is that the Detective seems to be one of the good guys now? Also, a few episodes ago when the reporter broke into his office, there was a picture of the ambassador and him together.

I wonder if the ambassador is trying to figure out what's going on as well? He might not be as passive as they are portraying him.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

verdugan said:


> One thing that threw me off a bit during this episode is that the Detective seems to be one of the good guys now?


I think it's more like there are more than two sides...the people behind the conspiracy, the people trying to figure it out, and the people the detective works for.


----------



## ADG

photoshopgrl said:


> I assumed it was in his sweet n sour pork since right after he ate it he was feeling sick.


And of course nobody would notice the taste of antifreeze in sweet & sour pork 

Just another in a recent spate of shows that chooses to treat viewers as idiots.


----------



## obixman

I think there are at least 4 and maybe 5 groups at work here:

1) the abductees who are working to escape

2) the ones running the project - who want the project to continue (why - we don't know) probably including the detective, possibly a second mole

3) Authorities who want to stop it - the men in blue

4) Those who know the abductees - who want to find them.

5) a possible interest group consisting of members of group 2 inside the project (Joe - the head waiter, possibly another mole ) mainly concerned with survival/moving the project to completion..

right now it looks like members of group 4 are in play between groups 2 and 3.
the abductees (group 1) are in play between groups 2 and 5.

My bet is that every group is suported by 1 other and in conlflict between 2 others.


----------



## DevdogAZ

obixman said:


> I think there are at least 4 and maybe 5 groups at work here:
> 
> 1) the abductees who are working to escape
> 
> 2) the ones running the project - who want the project to continue (why - we don't know) probably including the detective, possibly a second mole
> 
> *3) Authorities who want to stop it - the men in blue*
> 
> 4) Those who know the abductees - who want to find them.
> 
> 5) a possible interest group consisting of members of group 2 inside the project (Joe - the head waiter, possibly another mole ) mainly concerned with survival/moving the project to completion..
> 
> right now it looks like members of group 4 are in play between groups 2 and 3.
> the abductees (group 1) are in play between groups 2 and 5.
> 
> My bet is that every group is suported by 1 other and in conlflict between 2 others.


I think you're wrong about the "men in blue." Why would they be the ones kidnapping people and preventing Renbe from investigating the problem if they're trying to stop it?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

DevdogAZ said:


> I think you're wrong about the "men in blue." Why would they be the ones kidnapping people and preventing Renbe from investigating the problem if they're trying to stop it?


Yeah, the men in blue are pretty clearly the muscle for the people running the project.


----------



## verdugan

ADG said:


> And of course nobody would notice the taste of antifreeze in sweet & sour pork


Actually, after a quick google search, all the sites I found say that it doesn't smell bad. Some even said it smells a bit sweet. I found this info usually in pet-related sites. Dogs tend to be attracted to the sweet smell.

I've seen real-crime shows when they mention that putting antifreeze in yellow Gatorade is a common way to poison somebody. I guess taste is not noticeable and the color blends with the Gatorade.

Maybe the taste wouldn't be a problem as much as the color when it comes to antifreeze and sweet and sour pork? Also, it's a TV show.


----------



## moot

jsmeeker said:


> It was to show the audience that she was the one who poisoned Joe.


As a writing device, yes, I agree (for those who didn't get the hints earlier). But in-character, I also believe it was her showing the "people behind the cameras" what she was capable of doing. Tom's reaction as he watched her seemed like he was taken a little by surprise, that he hadn't actually know she had done it and wasn't sure how she'd slipped past his watch. She gave a little "don't F with me" look at the camera as she finished pouring.


----------



## jsmeeker

DevdogAZ said:


> That's what I assumed, which is why I don't understand what Erika was doing with the can of antifreeze in her room, and why she was pouring it down the sink. Doesn't make sense at all.


The how isn't so important here. They just want you to know that Erika is the one that poisoned Joe and it wasn't the "Big Brother" people that did it for stepping out of line.

But maybe moot is right. Maybe she did it so Big Brother could see. I had not thought of that angle.


----------



## Hcour

nikeshoxshoes said:


> The accessible area is a apple in Discount Nike Shox Shoes itself, with the administration of 4 billion bodies in the world; governments accept their easily full, accouterment aggregate to the citizenry from utilities to casework and healthcare.
> 
> The 20th aeon has Nike shox 2010 apparent advances fabricated Cheap nike shox by man afore the development of the centuries afore it. Science and technology, babyminding and the aesthetics of acculturation has undergone a apparent transformation.As is inevitable, citizens accept business to conduct every day with these departments.


You've summarized the plot quite nicely. It all makes sense to me now.


----------



## Jeeters

moot said:


> As a writing device, yes, I agree (for those who didn't get the hints earlier). But in-character, I also believe it was her showing the "people behind the cameras" what she was capable of doing. Tom's reaction as he watched her seemed like he was taken a little by surprise, that he hadn't actually know she had done it and wasn't sure how she'd slipped past his watch. She gave a little "don't F with me" look at the camera as she finished pouring.


That's how I interpreted it, too.

I also considered the possibility that she got some sort of "kill a neighbor and be set free" message like what was in the earlier fortune cookies and she was saying to the camera people "I could have done it what you wanted but, F U, I changed my mind".


----------



## wprager

Men in blue, traveling in threes. Sounds so vaguely familiar


----------



## dbranco

verdugan said:


> She did it to get Joe out of the way so she could have Janet to herself. Tom made a comment when she saw Erika with Janet how the last thing they needed was a love triangle.


IMHO, if she had wanted Joe dead, she wouldn't have provided the antidote. I interpreted the whole anti-freeze poisoning to be her way to force Joe to confess that he was "with" the abductors. Janet didn't believe her when she said she didn't trust Joe. Now everyone knows.


----------



## Steveknj

nikeshoxshoes said:


> I also like the pilot, their work is very not easy.
> The accessible area is a apple in Discount Nike Shox Shoes itself, with the administration of 4 billion bodies in the world; governments accept their easily full, accouterment aggregate to the citizenry from utilities to casework and healthcare.
> 
> The 20th aeon has Nike shox 2010 apparent advances fabricated Cheap nike shox by man afore the development of the centuries afore it. Science and technology, babyminding and the aesthetics of acculturation has undergone a apparent transformation.As is inevitable, citizens accept business to conduct every day with these departments.


Anyone else think this is secret code to a terrorist cell?


----------



## verdugan

dbranco said:


> IMHO, if she had wanted Joe dead, she wouldn't have provided the antidote.


She didn't want him dead. She just wanted him out of the way so she could get Janet. What better way to discredit him in Janet's eyes than to show her that he's working for their captors?


----------



## dbranco

verdugan said:


> She didn't want him dead. She just wanted him out of the way so she could get Janet. What better way to discredit him in Janet's eyes than to show her that he's working for their captors?


Yup, totally agree. Sorry, I had interpreted your phrase "out of the way" as being 'dead'.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

I got a faint vibe that Erika really did intend to kill Joe in order to clear the path to Janet, but when she saw that Joe's impending demise was actually driving a wedge between her and Janet she came up with a Plan B.


----------



## Cainebj

Plot twist I didn't see coming 
- how Joe got poisoned by the anti-freeze. 
I totally bought that the management or whatever you want to call them did it to him.


----------



## Fool Me Twice

I just caught up by watching the last two episodes. The introduction of Erika has not improved the show.



ADG said:


> I'm hooked enough to want to see how it ends, but it's well past silly at this point.


I'm just a sucker for weird mysteries, even this one that is so badly written, acted, and directed.


----------



## Hcour

Finally, a semi-interesting episode. It's still a stupid show, but at least this week stuff actually happened.


----------



## astrohip

But how could Renbe & <what's her name> not know they were being played? The guy who has been helping them (Mr Good Looking) just "shows up" at the airport, just in time to save them? Come on . . .

I agree it's moving along, and I actually enjoy watching, but this show is off the disbelief meter scale.


----------



## dswallow

If I were with those people Erika and Bill would not just be dead but would be flayed by now. And it was unusually enjoyable to see Mr. Contemptuous get a faceful of hot, flammable oil. It's just unfortunate we couldn't get through Erika and Bill first.

Otherwise, I'm enjoying it.


----------



## photoshopgrl

This show is so ridiculous at this point. I'm sure Tom would not have been that fried in the amount of time he was on fire. Really, every part of his skin showing? Parts that weren't even on fire. Once second he's screaming, then he's just dead? 

Oh well, I'm along for the ride just because I know it has an end and I just want to see what it's all about at this point. I'm prepared to be utterly disappointed on that front too.


----------



## Grinderhand

Did the ep yesterday air at 8pm ET? If so, my local station must have replaced it with an old Law & Order ep, because that's what my SP ended up recording. I ended up grabbing it off usenet and watching that.


----------



## Fool Me Twice

My affiliate ran it at 3am, in SD.


----------



## marksman

Fool Me Twice said:


> My affiliate ran it at 3am, in SD.


I think this show is a reality show and these moves by the network are part of the cover up.

As for putting Anti Freeze in Sweet and Sour Pork, I have always heard it has a sweet taste to it, so putting it in something sweet would be the way to go.

As someone else mentioned gatorade has been a common mask for anti freeze.

So maybe they weren't treating viewers like idiots, but just educating those less knowledgeable on poison methods?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

marksman said:


> I think this show is a reality show and these moves by the network are part of the cover up.


It's not a move by the network. It aired here at the usual time.

Obviously, some of the local affiliates are preempting/moving it.


----------



## caslu

Speaking of conspiracies, here's the strange thing... I have two DVRs and one recorded the episode while the other recorded a Law & Order episode. I remain baffled as to how/why that happened since both have the Persons Unknown SP.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

caslu said:


> Speaking of conspiracies, here's the strange thing... I have two DVRs and one recorded the episode while the other recorded a Law & Order episode. I remain baffled as to how/why that happened since both have the Persons Unknown SP.


Are they both on the same source?


----------



## marksman

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It's not a move by the network. It aired here at the usual time.
> 
> Obviously, some of the local affiliates are preempting/moving it.


Obviously some affiliate owners belong to the group which has no name...

What better way to dismiss a conspiracy then to turn it into a lowly rated "scripted" tv show and then pre-empt it as necessary to keep it away from the eyes of people who might be looking to uncover the conspiracy.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

marksman said:


> Obviously some affiliate owners belong to the group which has no name...
> 
> What better way to dismiss a conspiracy then to turn it into a lowly rated "scripted" tv show and then pre-empt it as necessary to keep it away from the eyes of people who might be looking to uncover the conspiracy.


It just seems implausible that a conspiracy that broad would be comprised of such small and insignificant outfits (network affiliates) and yet could survive attacking the interests of much larger and more powerful outfits (the networks themselves). Society would crush such a conspiracy like a bug. Clearly you are delusional, if not flat-out insane.

Unless that's what they _want _us to think...


----------



## fmowry

I came into this thread seeing if the show is worth watching as I have them saved up on my DVR.

On a side note, antifreeze does taste sweet and does not have an alcohol taste. I don't think lacing sweet and sour pork with it would contain enough antifreeze to kill someone though. You need to consume a decent amount to kill someone. More than has accidentally splashed in my mouth while removing the radiator in my car apparently. 

Frank


----------



## Jeeters

Lethal dosage for humans is only between 50-100ml. A dog can be killed with just a couple teaspoons.


----------



## Steveknj

Why is it that shows that start off so promising like this one end up going so bad...and then you have shows that start off bad and end up being good? I think we need to combine the writers of the shows that start off good and the ones that end up good and make one GOOD show 

So we now know that the protocol has no name and is some sort of secret organization that kidnaps people because they will eventually make an impact on the world?

Sounds like a REALLY bad Robert Ludlum novel, you know, the ones that were written after he died but his name is still on the cover?


----------



## marksman

Jeeters said:


> Lethal dosage for humans is only between 50-100ml. A dog can be killed with just a couple teaspoons.


Note to self, decline Jeeters invite to his dinner party.


----------



## mattack

So one thing I wasn't sure if they meant or not..

Is "the city" actually the recruitment for the organization? Maybe everyone in the organization was at one time brought to their own city like this.. and if they say no, off them like the ambassador(?)'s daughter.


----------



## jon777

mattack said:


> So one thing I wasn't sure if they meant or not..
> 
> Is "the city" actually the recruitment for the organization? Maybe everyone in the organization was at one time brought to their own city like this.. and if they say no, off them like the ambassador(?)'s daughter.


I interpreted it as the Proving Grounds / testing for the organization. They select people that for some reason they feel can make an impact with the right funding, incentives, motivation, etc. and the town is some kind of test.

If they pass, they are "groomed" into positions of authority, where they do the organizations bidding (the ambassador), or they are brought into other parts of the organization (e.g. Joe, Tom).

Assume if they don't pass they are killed -- to keep their secret...


----------



## obixman

jon777 said:


> I interpreted it as the Proving Grounds / testing for the organization. They select people that for some reason they feel can make an impact with the right funding, incentives, motivation, etc. and the town is some kind of test.
> 
> If they pass, they are "groomed" into positions of authority, where they do the organizations bidding (the ambassador), or they are brought into other parts of the organization (e.g. Joe, Tom).
> 
> Assume if they don't pass they are killed -- to keep their secret...


I agree - I suspect the test is to see if they band together or try to do their own thing. Judging by the ambassodor's daughter it looks like (at the moment, anyway) if you don't bond with the others, you are eliminated.

This makes sense if the ones that run the town are some sort of illumentati type organization. Such an organization couldn't stand loose cannons.


----------



## Fool Me Twice

"The way out is the way through."

Google's first return is a quote by L. Ron Hubbard. Without a real effort at researching it, it seems like that's something people are told when they want to leave Scientology or when they want to quit some program within it.

Another return shows that Joe used that line in an earlier episode. In the third episode, entitled "The Way Through". http://www.spoilertv.com/2010/06/persons-unknown-episode-103-way-through_22.html


----------



## jschuur

Uhm. So that happened.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

One thing you have to admit about The Project...their surveillance capabilities are AWE. SOME. World-wide!


----------



## jsmeeker

So, is Tori really alive? Or was Joe just hallucinating?


----------



## jon777

jsmeeker said:


> So, is Tori really alive? Or was Joe just hallucinating?


Good question... There was a line by the Italian guy when looking at the picture, saying something to the effect that the dress she was wearing in the picture was purchased right before she was abducted, or something to that effect, somehow indicating that she might be alive... I didn't follow his logic when he said it in the episode (2 ago, maybe?), and they repeated in the "previously on..."

I'll be a little dissapointed if she is alive, considering she was found dead in a public fountain and buried by her father... Am hoping that is a red-herring...

But while I've been up and down on this show, thought this episode was horrible...

If the crazy lady has been in the psych ward all this time, how'd she know Joe was abducted? Seemed a stretch, and didn't give the address of the church, but a store near the church, where a picture happened to be posted that they stumbled on???

And the actors (and writing) of the two newspaper people (who's names I think my brain in repressing at this point) are just plain bad... The whole dialog with him wanting to give up, and her now being the "follow it through til we find her..." blech...

I'll still keep watching, but "uneven" is probably the best thing I can say about it right now...


----------



## jon777

Rob Helmerichs said:


> One thing you have to admit about The Project...their surveillance capabilities are AWE. SOME. World-wide!


I think Chloe in CTU just can re-task the satellite to pick up whomever they need ...


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

jsmeeker said:


> So, is Tori really alive? Or was Joe just hallucinating?


If they're being at all logical/consistent, then she's really alive, because there were scenes where she was there and Joe was unconscious, thus not able to hallucinate her.

Of course, there's no guarantee this show is that careful, but I suspect she's alive.


----------



## mwhip

Looks like to me "the program" is nothing more than a recruitment campaign. Tori has been recruited and the others are on the path. Question for me is what is someone does not want to be recruited?


----------



## mtnagel

If Tori's alive and being recruited, wouldn't her dad know about it? Isn't the reason he told the reporter and that girl about the program was because they killed his daughter?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

mtnagel said:


> If Tori's alive and being recruited, wouldn't her dad know about it? Isn't the reason he told the reporter and that girl about the program was because they killed his daughter?


That is what we have assumed. But we are assuming A) he's telling the truth, and B) he knows the truth.


----------



## jon777

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That is what we have assumed. But we are assuming A) he's telling the truth, and B) he knows the truth.


My belief is that he really believes she is dead -- otherwise he wouldn't have sent the reporters to South America looking to bring down the program...


----------



## photoshopgrl

Wait. I assumed he was hallucinating both Tori and Tom. Especially based on the episode synopsis. Either way, this show just gets dumber every episode. If it didn't have an end date, I'd have jumped ship. Joe and Janet making out was just painful to watch.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

photoshopgrl said:


> Wait. I assumed he was hallucinating both Tori and Tom. Especially based on the episode synopsis. Either way, this show just gets dumber every episode. If it didn't have an end date, I'd have jumped ship. Joe and Janet making out was just painful to watch.


But Tori was there when he was unconscious, so theoretically she couldn't have been a hallucination.

The question of what her father knows is still open. One might assume, as has been suggested, that he really believes she is dead. But there could be something going on that we don't know about yet to explain his new antagonism to the Program.


----------



## moot

My assumption was that Tori was alive based on the scene where the coding team is trying to bring him back and that she was still there, looking upset. If he's dead on the table, then she's alive in the room (by my logic). Although how they faked her dead body I'm not sure.

Aside from that, lots of weird character interactions this go around. Renbe's & boss-lady's sudden reversal of roles (she's pushing him to go forward, he wants to go home). Moira thinking soldier-man doesn't like her anymore despite the fact that he just tried to make out with her and quite clearly told her that he cared enough about her to tell the truth about his past.

Interesting that the "Kill your neighbor" fortune cookie thing must be a normal test, and Joe passed it (or failed it, depending on who you ask).

The hidden cameras are getting _really_ over the top now. I could believe them being in crazy-lady's room & hospital, but in some random courtyard in front of a church? Really?


----------



## Hcour

Yawn. Just hanging on for the ending now.

BTW, I called Tori not really being dead a couple of wks ago. Do I win anything?


----------



## photoshopgrl

Hcour said:


> Yawn. Just hanging on for the ending now.
> 
> BTW, I called Tori not really being dead a couple of wks ago. Do I win anything?


Nope because I am convinced she is dead. I think he was dreaming his death and that's why it seems that she is still there when he's coding. I'll be honestly shocked if she is alive. YMMV.


----------



## jschuur

Rob Helmerichs said:


> One thing you have to admit about The Project...their surveillance capabilities are AWE. SOME. World-wide!


Unless of course what we're seeing outside of the town is just another layer of virtual reality. Unlikely, but that would explain it nicely.

Maybe it's all just one long trip to Alpha Centauri this time


----------



## mattack

mwhip said:


> Looks like to me "the program" is nothing more than a recruitment campaign. Tori has been recruited and the others are on the path. Question for me is what is someone does not want to be recruited?


Which is what I said (well, asked, but semi-rhetorically) on 7/26. They kill them if they don't want to be recruited, I'd say.


----------



## ClutchBrake

Barging in on your thread...

I've recorded every episode thus far but know nothing at all about this show. I'm running out of TiVo space and am curious as to the general concensus.

Good show?
Great show?
Bad show?
Meh?


----------



## photoshopgrl

IMHO Bad Show. If you haven't started, don't waste your time. I'm only finishing it out of morbid curiosity and room on my Tivo!


----------



## Fool Me Twice

Delete.


----------



## dswallow

ClutchBrake said:


> Barging in on your thread...
> 
> I've recorded every episode thus far but know nothing at all about this show. I'm running out of TiVo space and am curious as to the general concensus.
> 
> Good show?
> Great show?
> Bad show?
> Meh?


Meh, but still about 700,000 times better than realicrap television of any kind.


----------



## jon777

dswallow said:


> Meh, but still about 700,000 times better than realicrap television of any kind.


Exactly...

Some good moments, a lot of potential not lived up to -- could have been very good with better writing/acting, but decent summer filler... Doubtful they will turn it around any better than moving from Meh to Decent -- doubtful that it will reach "good"... If you've got better things to do / watch, you won't feel like you've missed anything by deleting it... If you've got too much free time, then it's up to you...


----------



## Family

I think it's OK and a good summer junk program. But I am a sucker for shows like 4400, Dead Zone, Eureka which might be higher quality, but hey this is network TV. If you like this sort of stuff it's not the worst... if you don't then definitely pass.

I thought the show was heading downhill this last episode however. Hopefully it will bounce back.


----------



## sieglinde

Suddenly my Season pass for this shows no more episodes. The futon critic is silent on this. Any ideas? Canceled?


----------



## astrohip

Don't scare me like that!

Futon Critic shows it's off next week, then returns the following Saturday. Not sure why it didn't show it for you.


----------



## Fool Me Twice

So, they're in South America.

I love how committed the blue overall guys are to staying in uniform.

Is there a show with worse dialogue? Probably, but I'm not watching it.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

sieglinde said:


> Suddenly my Season pass for this shows no more episodes. The futon critic is silent on this. Any ideas? Canceled?


The "next on" bit said "in two weeks."


----------



## sieglinde

I should have waited until the morning to check the Futon Critic. They had not updated it that evening.


----------



## Cainebj

Man, couldn't they have gotten someone better to play The Director? 
I don't know who that actress is, but boy was she bad.


----------



## dswallow

sieglinde said:


> Suddenly my Season pass for this shows no more episodes. The futon critic is silent on this. Any ideas? Canceled?


http://epguides.com/PersonsUnknown/ shows no episode next week, then resuming weekly for the last four.


----------



## jsmeeker

Interesting episode. 

How silly is it they can't name a specific country in South America. They've already mentioned Italy. The plot line with two down there was lame and was pissing me off all episode. It was going no where. Until the final scene.

Janet really does have it bad for Joe, doesn't she? Tries to kill here TWICE, and she still defends him, trying to help him see through everything.

Kinda cool to see the behind the scenes stuff in The Program. But a bit much with the way the lead guy and the director were treating young workers.


----------



## loubob57

Fool Me Twice said:


> ... I love how committed the blue overall guys are to staying in uniform.
> ...


And what bad shots they are. Sure they got the old priest, but the lot of them couldn't manage to even wing one of the other two? Well, I guess it wasn't in the script.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

loubob57 said:


> And what bad shots they are. Sure they got the old priest, but the lot of them couldn't manage to even wing one of the other two? Well, I guess it wasn't in the script.


They attended the Imperial Stormtrooper School of Marksmanship.


----------



## moot

Couple of random thoughts:

- Guess the other chinese restaurant workers aren't "Program" members. At one point, the Night Manger said he was the only agent still in the town.

- Is Joe the candidate the Director claimed was so close to reaching "level 10", or one of the townies? Looks like they seriously broke Joe's brain when they tried to reprogram him.

- Sub-director (not sure what his actual title or name was) seemed surprised that Tom's replacement hadn't yet arrived. Will it be someone we know? Renbe's girlfriend, perhaps?


----------



## DevdogAZ

Cainebj said:


> Man, couldn't they have gotten someone better to play The Director?
> I don't know who that actress is, but boy was she bad.


Yes, she was horrible.


moot said:


> - Is Joe the candidate the Director claimed was so close to reaching "level 10", or one of the townies? Looks like they seriously broke Joe's brain when they tried to reprogram him.


Yes, they were talking about Joe. Ulrich said something like, "I don't share your optimism about Tucker" after she mentioned he was the most promising candidate in a decade.

I thought the ending was pretty lame. The vegitation in the jungle where Renbe and girlfriend were running from "the Blues" was tropical, as you would expect in most of South America. Then they walk for a couple hours and suddenly they're in a northern area that looks surprisingly like central Canada.


----------



## mattack

dswallow said:


> Meh, but still about 700,000 times better than realicrap television of any kind.


I like reality shows... But I still call this a pretty good show.. definitely watch.


----------



## jschuur

DevdogAZ said:


> I thought the ending was pretty lame. The vegitation in the jungle where Renbe and girlfriend were running from "the Blues" was tropical, as you would expect in most of South America. Then they walk for a couple hours and suddenly they're in a northern area that looks surprisingly like central Canada.


I don't think the town is in the South America.

The town is a virtual reality simulation. How did Joe disappear out of that bathroom when they tore it apart looking for hidden exits? How did he reappear amidst a very convenient storm? How did they end up back in town after they drove off? How did Joe recoer from the wounds of the force field wall so fast?

We've seen the arrival of the current batch of abductees, and I thought at one point you could hear the sound effect of someone appearing out of thin air. At some point, Mark and Kat transferred over to the simulation without realizing it. Granted, I can't tell where. When they were being brought across the border? that would suggest the priest was in on it and everything was a setup to introduce them into the scenario.

Sure, there are some questions: Why are people in danger of dying for real if they die in VR? Why can't they be extracted faster? Why did the organization we've seen not make any reference to introducing Mark and Kat into town?

I'm not 100% sure it's VR, but it sure would explain some things.


----------



## wprager

They are not in Central America; they are in South America, which can get quite chilly in the summertime. Although they did make a point of saying how hot it was earlier. Who knows, maybe the priest was driving for a week. At the end of the day, it's just a TV show, and not a terribly good one. Thankfully it will be over soon.


----------



## RGM1138

I knew it! (Just watched "Saved"). I knew that antisocial guy was somehow involved.

Man, this single thread is becoming unwieldy.


----------



## marksman

I agree with the comments on the director.

She had no Gravitas at all. It was impossible to believe she was behind all this or in a position of large responsibility for all of this.

It doesn't help that they show her mashing the keyboard trying to figure out how to answer a conference video call.


----------



## Hcour

Cainebj said:


> Man, couldn't they have gotten someone better to play The Director?
> I don't know who that actress is, but boy was she bad.


Felt the same way. "The Director" should be a dark, mysterious, charismatic character, instead they get a bland middle-aged hag to play her. Terrible, just terrible.

This show is so damn stupid. So the group sends Janet up to the roof to stop Joe from killing himself so she can bring him downstairs so the group can, what, kill him! ARRRRGHHH!


----------



## DevdogAZ

Hcour said:


> This show is so damn stupid. So the group sends Janet up to the roof to stop Joe from killing himself so she can bring him downstairs so the group can, what, kill him! ARRRRGHHH!


While I agree the show is stupid, I don't think the group sent Janet up there. I think she found him on her own and chose to save him from killing himself because of her feelings for him. Had the group known he was up there, I'm fairly certain they'd have gone up and pushed him off the roof.


----------



## obixman

marksman said:


> I agree with the comments on the director.
> 
> She had no Gravitas at all. It was impossible to believe she was behind all this or in a position of large responsibility for all of this.
> 
> It doesn't help that they show her mashing the keyboard trying to figure out how to answer a conference video call.


I think that's the purpose - the project runs by being bland and uninspiring - it's a bunch of faceless manager types that are intending to rule the world for the betterment of "us"... regardless of if we want them to or not

Do not underestimate the banality of evil.


----------



## Hcour

DevdogAZ said:


> While I agree the show is stupid, I don't think the group sent Janet up there. I think she found him on her own and chose to save him from killing himself because of her feelings for him. Had the group known he was up there, I'm fairly certain they'd have gone up and pushed him off the roof.


In the scene in the town right before they were discussing that Janet was going to be bait to find him and that she should go on her own, so I think my conclusion is perfectly reasonable.

Also, when they came out of the elevator, the group was waiting for them.


----------



## marksman

obixman said:


> I think that's the purpose - the project runs by being bland and uninspiring - it's a bunch of faceless manager types that are intending to rule the world for the betterment of "us"... regardless of if we want them to or not
> 
> Do not underestimate the banality of evil.


Okay, I will give that a approach a shot. Not sure it will make for interesting tv, but I am willing to proceed forward that they intentionally did this, at least for now.


----------



## NJ_HB

Is the series over, no longer in the guide?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

NJ_HB said:


> Is the series over, no longer in the guide?


As noted before they're skipping a week, but the one on the 21st is on my To Do List.


----------



## Alfer

It's getting more painful to sit through but I want to see what kind of dumb/silly ending they have in mind for this thing....it's like a train wreck now...just gotta stop and watch when it's on.


----------



## Steveknj

How many weeks are left?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Steveknj said:


> How many weeks are left?


Four.


----------



## jschuur

obixman said:


> I think that's the purpose - the project runs by being bland and uninspiring - it's a bunch of faceless manager types that are intending to rule the world for the betterment of "us"... regardless of if we want them to or not


After the last episode, I have no idea how this project could have survived for the decades (50 year?) that it's supposed to have been around. The director and that other senior guy are both raging psychopaths! How about you not threaten to kill your employees for not being able to start a phone call?


----------



## dswallow

jschuur said:


> After the last episode, I have no idea how this project could have survived for the decades (50 year?) that it's supposed to have been around. The director and that other senior guy are both raging psychopaths! How about you not threaten to kill your employees for not being able to start a phone call?


It survives the same way the US does through various "less-than-ideal" political administrations.


----------



## NJ_HB

Rob Helmerichs said:


> As noted before they're skipping a week, but the one on the 21st is on my To Do List.


Sorry, for not noticing. 
Its not showing up in my guide, there may be sports scheduled on the East coast. I'll have to get the missing episodes from Amazon when/if they become available.


----------



## Jeeters

NJ_HB said:


> I'll have to get the missing episodes from Amazon when/if they become available.


You can also watch the full episodes at nbc.com, for free.


----------



## nickels

I'll chime in late since I finally caught up on this show. From the very beginning it is sad how this show came so close and had so much potential. Had the network gotten a better dialog writer and used actors/actresses that weren't terrible, oh what could have been. This show could have used a better budget, some tweaking, and much more advertising. Alas, it is what it is...

I'll echo the sentiments of many - the characters/acting are terrible. In the last episode, I was rooting for Joe to drop Janet. She annoys me on so many levels. The reporter and his GF - oh god, they both would be dead multiple times over if the plot is to be believed and from what we know about them I wouldn't miss them one bit. 

At this point I'm hanging in simply to see how they wrap it all up.


----------



## stellie93

NJ_HB said:


> Sorry, for not noticing.
> Its not showing up in my guide, there may be sports scheduled on the East coast. I'll have to get the missing episodes from Amazon when/if they become available.


Are some episodes not going to be aired?


----------



## Jeeters

stellie93 said:


> Are some episodes not going to be aired?


Based on his "may" and "if", I'd say he's not sure. I'm assuming that he's just thinking they may be preempted in some regions due to sports.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Jeeters said:


> Based on his "may" and "if", I'd say he's not sure. I'm assuming that he's just thinking they may be preempted in some regions due to sports.


Yeah, the episodes that _is _going to be aired in Minneapolis on the 21st is apparently _not _going to be aired in NJ for whatever reason. But that's obviously a local station issue, not a network issue.


----------



## marksman

This non airings by specific affiliates are part of the cover up.

This is real, it is not fiction. They are trying to get the message out via NBC, but some of the affiliates are controlled by people involved and are trying to squash the message.


----------



## astrohip

From FutonCritic


> LOS ANGELES (thefutoncritic.com) -- NBC is cutting its "Persons Unknown" run short by one episode.
> 
> Said installment, "Seven Sacrifices," however will turn up online, a network spokesperson has confirmed to the site exclusively.
> 
> "Persons Unknown" returns next Saturday, August 21 at 8:00/7:00c with its 10th episode ("Identity"). That week, episode 11 (the aforementioned "Seven Sacrifices") will make its online debut before the show signs off with its two-hour finale ("And Then There Was One"; "Shadows in the Cave") on Saturday, August 28 starting at 8:00/7:00c.


From TVbytheNumbers


> As planned, Persons Unknown has the night off tonight when NBC will air the Visa Gymnastics Championship. Also as planned, it returns next week. But, in a new wrinkle with a weird scheduling twist, its ending a week early on August 28th instead of September 4 (the Saturday before Labor Day).
> 
> Originally the schedule called for the 10th episode on August 21, both the 11th and 12th episodes on August 28 and the finale on September 4th. NBC will air a repeat of Law & Order: Criminal Intent on September 4th at 8pm instead.
> 
> The strange thing is that according to The Futon Critic the 11th episode will never air at all, and will only be available online before the two hour finale (12th and 13th episodes) airs on August 28.
> 
> Why not just pull the last four episodes and put them online? Last week, it barely managed a 0.4 rating with adults 18-49 and 1.26 million viewers. It has consistently been NBCs lowest-rated hour of primetime.


----------



## astrohip

I will continue to record them, but not watch any. If the online version is captioned, then I'll watch them all. Otherwise, I'll delete them all.

No use investing any more time until I know I can watch *every *episode with captions.


----------



## marksman

This is the second dumbest thing NBC has ever done.

I knew they would screw this up somehow, but seriously NBC has massive amounts of creative ways to mess things up. You can always predict NBC will screw something up, but they always stun and amaze us with the new ways they accomplish it.

This is insane. They might as well just stop running the show. How can they not find a one hour on the schedule to air that 11th episode. It is insane.


----------



## Hcour

marksman said:


> It is insane.


Seriously. WTH? They're just going to _drop_ an episode? In a _mystery_ series?

This is absolutely why I don't watch series tv "live" anymore (this show was an exception). I wait and watch them on dvd, or streaming, or torrents, or hulu.


----------



## DevdogAZ

I've got to believe the NBC execs have seen the episodes and have decided that you can get the gist of the solution to the mystery without seeing Ep. 11. But given that they've been pulling such horrible ratings all summer, but have left the show on the air, it seems really stupid to pull one episode at this late date. Why not just bite the bullet and let it finish out as it was originally planned.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Kinda reminds me of the Eastwick fiasco...


----------



## jschuur

*sigh*

Burn in Hell, NBC!

It sounds like at least they're airing the missing one before the finale, so we can still watch the series seamless.


----------



## Jeeters

I think the kicker is that they're replacing that 11th episode with a repeat of Law & Order: CI.
A repeat.


----------



## Family

I can live with watching an episode on the web as long as all the amenities (closed caption) are provided. What's the big deal if you have access to it?


----------



## innocentfreak

Gotta love NBC.


----------



## Hcour

Family said:


> What's the big deal if you have access to it?


What, are you kidding? How about convenience? How about the difference between sitting at a desk at my computer watching a show on my 22" monitor vs sitting in my recliner with my feet up watching it on my 56" HDTV with surround sound.


----------



## pjenkins

dumbest.decision.ever....

nbc sucks.


----------



## astrohip

Family said:


> I can live with watching an episode on the web as long as all the amenities (closed caption) are provided. What's the big deal if you have access to it?


While I don't totally disagree (see Hcour's quote below as to why it's not "the same"), the problem is the great majority of webTV is NOT captioned. And for those of us who rely on captions 100% to watch TV, being shown on the web is about as useless as <fill in your own cliche>.



Hcour said:


> What, are you kidding? How about convenience? How about the difference between sitting at a desk at my computer watching a show on my 22" monitor vs sitting in my recliner with my feet up watching it on my 56" HDTV with surround sound.


----------



## marksman

This is what I talk about when the networks are dumb.

They do something like this and piss people off, to perhaps make an extra 300k. It is stupid and one of the many reasons why their ratings continue erode at a massive rate. They don't give any consideration to the millions of people still watching the show. Taking out one episode near the end of a 13 episode story is idiotic.

How does that conversation come up and not everyone say, of course we can't do that. It so clearly demonstrates they have no idea what they are doing.


----------



## Alfer

pjenkins said:


> dumbest.decision.ever....
> 
> nbc sucks.


But really...in this case...seriously does it really matter to people that much....??

The show pretty much sucks eggs anyway so it's not like anyone's gonna care or notice at this point.

And yes I'm guilty of watching and will watch the end...I'll skip the online ep because I just don't care enough anymore...I just want to see how the conclude this train wreck of a show.


----------



## verdugan

marksman said:


> How does that conversation come up and not everyone say, of course we can't do that. It so clearly demonstrates they have no idea what they are doing.


Or worse, they just don't care!

This is stupid. As somebody said, they are replacing it with a repeat??? I can understand not showing one week for a live event (like this week's Gymnastics competition), but show a repeat in its place of L&O CI -- a show that has been banished to USA due to low ratings???? BIH NBC!


----------



## pjenkins

Alfer said:


> But really...in this case...seriously does it really matter to people that much....??


to me it does, i'm watching the show, so quick f'ing with it and finish what you started mr. network people!!



Alfer said:


> The show pretty much sucks eggs anyway so it's not like anyone's gonna care or notice at this point.


i care, and notice.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

verdugan said:


> Or worse, they just don't care!


And probably not caring makes good business sense.

By airing an episode of L&O, they make thousands of L&O fans happy.

By not airing an episode of Persons Unknown, they make 17 Persons Unknown fans unhappy.

The math is on their side, sadly.


----------



## verdugan

Rob Helmerichs said:


> By not airing an episode of Persons Unknown, they make 17 Persons Unknown fans unhappy.


16. Somebody here said they don't mind watching it on the web.


----------



## nickels

Actually - I download them all and stream them from the Tivo to the TV - since this is a TiVo forum most of you can probably do the same. There is no way I am watching 40 minutes of TV on my tiny PC screen when there is a 61" HDTV sitting in my living room.

As for the decision to pull out 1 of 13 episodes right at the conclusion of the series... NBC is the nitwit network for sure. I guess they decided screwing over Conan wasn't the only stupid thing to do this year, they also have to ruin a few other shows to show they aren't done being stupid just yet.


----------



## dswallow

I feel reasonably certain actions like this which show pretty much exactly how the networks feel about anybody who might be a fan of something they produce/air are certainly at least part of the reason that people are simply fleeing watching network programming. I think most everyone has at least 1 show that they've, at the time, considered themselves a big fan of, where the network just stopped airing episodes -- episode that were already fully produced -- with complete disregard for the fan base that was established, no matter how small.

And the next time around people are less willing to bother with programming with any perceived "mega ratings" weakness, creating even worse rating scenarios for the network to deal with.

Then, of course, there's network meddling. Where the creative forces behind a show are forced by network execs to go down some particular path they had not previously planned or wanted. These are usually the same network executives that have destroyed everything they've touched, yet because they have a certain control over purse strings, they get their way -- either through outright contractual requirement, or "pressure" placed on the producers/writers with various threats concerning future work.

Unless you can show me at least one case where you forced some change and it improved a show... even using the network executive measure of "audience ratings" if not critical acclaim... If you hire creative talent to do something for you, let them do it; if you don't trust them to be able to do it, hire someone else. Don't meddle. Don't change things mid-stream.

And finally, if you really must choose to cancel something, give reasonable notice to the creators in order that they can bring things to an orderly close, if appropriate. Long-term, it will improve your standing with viewers, who will come to know you will, most of the time, treat them with some level of respect for the time they devote to your entertainment programming.


----------



## jsmeeker

Family said:


> I can live with watching an episode on the web as long as all the amenities (closed caption) are provided. What's the big deal if you have access to it?


If they make it convenient to get the missing episode (OnDemand via my cable company like they do with other episodes of this show, Amazon OnDemand for *FREE*, etc.) then I think it's not so bad. I can live with that. If my only option is to stream via Hulu via my computer, then it is a bit of a hassle.


----------



## marksman

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And probably not caring makes good business sense.
> 
> By airing an episode of L&O, they make thousands of L&O fans happy.
> 
> By not airing an episode of Persons Unknown, they make 17 Persons Unknown fans unhappy.
> 
> The math is on their side, sadly.


They may think that way but it is not true. They don't make any L&O fans happy. They don't care if that episode was on or not.

They do lose viewer equity thoguh from a number of viewers.

This all goes back to the Networks running their business the same way since TV was invented. They think people don't have options so they can do what they want, but they can not. This is why their audiences have shrunk to miniscule sizes.

Most of the cable networks that run first run dramas for example (many of them owned by the same dumb networks), would never drop an episode in the middle of the season. Heck they always run the entire season of a show when they air it regardless.

The network's have created a great deal of distrust, and it only hurts them. They wonder why people don't watch some of their shows, it is because nobody can even trust them to air the show. It can take an investment on the viewer and with so many choices there are limited resources.

I will certainly let NBC know I have no intention of watching "The Event" which they have spent a ton of money promoting, because they may cancel it after 5 episodes or just randomly pull episodes off the air and put them online.

And I disagree Devdog.. you really think the execs at NBC who made this decision have seen any episodes of this show? 

Back to the show..

I did comment on the blue overhaul guys too. I figure for all this dirty work they do they could have picked a less conspicuous color uniform.


----------



## Family

I don't think people are tuning out network shows because they get pulled off the air with episodes remaining. I think network shows mostly suck and with better choices around viewers are turning to cable for entertainment. 

The majority don't sample a network offering because they are generally bad. That's the only reason the ratings keep declining.


----------



## appleye1

Damn! NBC has done this to me before with a show called Lost. No, not THAT Lost - this Lost was a Fall 2001 reality show kind of like The Amazing Race in which teams were dropped off in different places in the world with no clue as to where they were, and they had to race back to the US on their own. Conan O'Brien's company produced the show.

It was kind of a mini-series format, with two 3-episode races. All three episodes of the first race were shown without problem, but the ratings must not have been good because when they showed the second race, they only showed the first and third episodes! The result being the teams were in one place at the end of the first episode and in the beginning of the next episode they were halfway around the world with no explanation of what happened in between. It sucked.

I thought it was a decent show, but it wasn't promoted well and 9/11 screwed up pretty much all TV at that time. I finally caught the second episode in the second race when they reran it on Fox Reality Channel a couple of years ago.

I can understand NBC wanting to cancel the show, but for heaven's sake, it's just one episode!


----------



## scooterboy

Family said:


> I don't think people are tuning out network shows because they get pulled off the air with episodes remaining. I think network shows mostly suck and with better choices around viewers are turning to cable for entertainment.
> 
> The majority don't sample a network offering because they are generally bad. That's the only reason the ratings keep declining.


I disagree - I think there is a fair sized group of viewers who do skip watching some series on some networks because they've been burned by pulled episodes/series in the past. There are many many posts on this forum that demonstrate this.

Some don't watch at first and possibly rent/buy the DVDs later once they know the season was allowed to be completed. Some do record the series but don't start watching it until they know the season was allowed to complete, and if it wasn't they delete them without watching.

Both of these scenarios hurt the network, don't they?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

scooterboy said:


> I disagree - I think there is a fair sized group of viewers who do skip watching some series on some networks because they've been burned by pulled episodes/series in the past. There are many many posts on this forum that demonstrate this.


I think the people on this forum are on average radically different than the population at large.


----------



## dswallow

I see the comment around here quite often that people are recording episodes but waiting to watch when it becomes apparent the network isn't going to screw them over and kill the series in the middle. And that attitude comes from having previously been screwed over by networks killing series in the middle.

Is it a statistically relevant number of people? I don't know. But I get the feeling it's definitely a growing number of people; and that trend should be of concern.


----------



## ElJay

I'm feeling like all of the companies involved in TV don't really want me to watch anymore. This isn't a great show but I just don't see the point of messing with its schedule now.


----------



## Alfer

Family said:


> I don't think people are tuning out network shows because they get pulled off the air with episodes remaining. I think network shows mostly suck and with better choices around viewers are turning to cable for entertainment.
> 
> *The majority don't sample a network offering because they are generally bad. That's the only reason the ratings keep declining*.


Pretty much 100% this...


----------



## scooterboy

Alfer said:


> Pretty much 100% this...


Phew! Now I know I'm right...


----------



## DancnDude

This is just bull. Why can't they just play it at 3am or something if absolutely necessary? It's only one episode.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

DancnDude said:


> This is just bull. Why can't they just play it at 3am or something if absolutely necessary? It's only one episode.


They don't have 3AM. That belongs to the locals.


----------



## dswallow

Rob Helmerichs said:


> They don't have 3AM. That belongs to the locals.


That's still no excuse for the network-owned affiliate's -- which reach the vast majority of the US market, all by themselves.

We aren't (so far) even getting episode 10 next week -- in its regular timeslot or anywhere else -- because of some crappy sports thing WNBC apparently has scheduled.

These stations could, at the very least, throw it on a digital subchannel when it's supposed to air.


----------



## astrohip

dswallow said:


> I see the comment around here quite often that people are recording episodes but waiting to watch when it becomes apparent the network isn't going to screw them over and kill the series in the middle. And that attitude comes from having previously been screwed over by networks killing series in the middle.
> 
> Is it a statistically relevant number of people? I don't know. But I get the feeling it's definitely a growing number of people; and *that trend should be of concern*.


It has an affect on me. Especially as NBC is concerned. They have a show coming up called "The Event". I have no faith that they will handle it properly. If ratings drop, they will cut it loose quicker than... Even if there are shows in the can, we're likely to never see them.

So... I will record it, but not watch it (maybe watch 1st episode). After a few episodes, when it becomes apparent what its future is, and if the buzz is good, I'll watch it. If not, I'll delete them unseen. This is what happens when NBC screws around with viewers.

I acknowledge that I am in a very small minority doing this.


----------



## AlphaDelta

The Detroit NBC affiliate _has _ been showing it in the wee hours of the morning (2:00 am Sunday I think). They dropped one episode a couple weeks ago that I had to hunt down on the 'net.


----------



## pjenkins

astrohip said:


> I acknowledge that I am in a very small minority doing this.


my wife and i are in the same minority. i'll wait until the show is a success and then perhaps tune in to see.


----------



## sieglinde

I have just begun watching this and have watched the first three or four episodes. Is is worth continuing? Are any of the mysteries answered yet?


----------



## DevdogAZ

sieglinde said:


> I have just begun watching this and have watched the first three or four episodes. Is is worth continuing? Are any of the mysteries answered yet?


They're slowly unraveling the mystery. I don't think it was ever planned for them to reveal very much before the final episode.

I'm sticking with it to the end because I want to see how it turns out. I've already invested 6-8 hours and there are only 3-4 more. But if I knew then what I know now, I probably wouldn't bother.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

sieglinde said:


> I have just begun watching this and have watched the first three or four episodes. Is is worth continuing? Are any of the mysteries answered yet?


It's definitely making progress. They say all will be revealed by the end, and I think they're on pace to do that.


----------



## getreal

appleye1 said:


> I can understand NBC wanting to cancel the show, but for heaven's sake, it's just one episode!


Yes, but it's the critical shark-jumping episode they don't want to air. 
Oh wait ... those episodes have already been aired.

I am also struggling to stick with this series until the end.


----------



## mattack

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Kinda reminds me of the Eastwick fiasco...


can you actually get the unaired Eastwick episodes anywhere?


----------



## Alfer

sieglinde said:


> I have just begun watching this and have watched the first three or four episodes. Is is worth continuing? Are any of the mysteries answered yet?


IMO.....I wouldn't if I was you....knowing what I know about how crappy this show has gotten I wouldn't invest the time...find something more exciting to do...we'll give you a quick cliff note wrap up when we see the final ep.


----------



## mattack

Rob Helmerichs said:


> They don't have 3AM. That belongs to the locals.


So was it only O&Os that aired Kidnapped at IIRC 3AM Mondays a while (months?) after the prime time episodes were axed? (I admit, I didn't record those, but it's on DVD and is really one of those things I intend to catch up on some eon...)

And as many people say burn in hell fox here, nowadays Fox seems to actually end up airing all eps, EVENTUALLY.. whether at midnight Sunday morning (late night Saturday), for that cartoon that bombed but I eventually started liking after seeing several of them... or at 7PM Sundays for "'Til Death" and "Sons of Tucson" and others..


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

BiH Fox is a really old and outdated mantra. They've been among the best networks at giving struggling shows far more chances than they really even deserve (e.g., Sarah Connor, Dollhouse, both of which were renewed at monumentally dismal ratings levels).

But I guess some people just can't forgive them for Firefly, and really, who can blame them?


----------



## dswallow

mattack said:


> can you actually get the unaired Eastwick episodes anywhere?


All 13 episodes including the last 2 unaired ones are part of the full series package at TVTorrents.


----------



## AndreZero

The first couple episodes of this showed so much promise, it's disappointing how quickly things got silly. At the end of the first episode I was thinking "This is what the Prisoner remake should have been" and now I'm thinking "The Prisoner remake was so much better than this". And that is pretty sad...


----------



## janry

I wonder if the network decided to get this over before college football gets serious on Sept. 4. If the final episode was to air on Sept. 4, how many people would skip it to watch football? Of course, if everyone had a TiVo.....


----------



## DevdogAZ

janry said:


> I wonder if the network decided to get this over before college football gets serious on Sept. 4. If the final episode was to air on Sept. 4, how many people would skip it to watch football? Of course, if everyone had a TiVo.....


But if NBC isn't airing a football game themselves, why should they care? It's not like they're trying to protect Persons Unknown from getting creamed in the ratings by football. It's going to end regardless, so it doesn't really matter what the ratings for the final episode are.


----------



## brettatk

I was wondering why it didn't download an episode this past weekend. Oh well, doesn't really bother me I guess but at the same time doesn't make much sense either.


----------



## janry

DevdogAZ said:


> But if NBC isn't airing a football game themselves, why should they care? It's not like they're trying to protect Persons Unknown from getting creamed in the ratings by football. It's going to end regardless, so it doesn't really matter what the ratings for the final episode are.


They still have to sell ad time. Probably easier to sell some time when the show isn't going up against football. Probably be some people that will plan to watch the final episode that haven't been watching lately, just to see what it's all about. Those folks might not even do that if it is against a football game.


----------



## getreal

DevdogAZ said:


> But if NBC isn't airing a football game themselves, why should they care? It's not like they're trying to protect Persons Unknown from getting creamed in the ratings by football. It's going to end regardless, so it doesn't really matter what the ratings for the final episode are.





janry said:


> They still have to sell ad time. Probably easier to sell some time when the show isn't going up against football. Probably be some people that will plan to watch the final episode that haven't been watching lately, just to see what it's all about. Those folks might not even do that if it is against a football game.


So NBC must know that football and gymnastics take precedence over a new episode of Persons Unknown. Too bad the acronym for this show is P-U.


----------



## Family

Is this the worst show that's gotten this much forum attention?

Hmmmm that could be a thread of its own.


----------



## mattack

dswallow said:


> All 13 episodes including the last 2 unaired ones are part of the full series package at TVTorrents.


So, no, you can't legally get them anywhere...


----------



## mattack

I don't think so.. I still like the show, about as much as ever.


----------



## dswallow

mattack said:


> So, no, you can't legally get them anywhere...


I must've missed the "legally" part in your original question someplace. Oh yeah, it was in thin air apparently. I don't read thin air. Sorry for actually answering your question. I'll try to remember to ignore your questions in the future. Wouldn't want to offend you by, you know, answering your question again.


----------



## marksman

ne1 hav ic for tvtcom to pm me?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

dswallow said:


> I must've missed the "legally" part in your original question someplace. Oh yeah, it was in thin air apparently. I don't read thin air. Sorry for actually answering your question. I'll try to remember to ignore your questions in the future. Wouldn't want to offend you by, you know, answering your question again.


On behalf of mattack I am OFFENDED that you would ACCUSE him so blatantly and viciously of even being WILLING to consider such brazenly illegal acts. It is an ASSAULT on his integrity so severe that YOU should possibly BE banned for life FROM THIS forum. You can TELL the strength of MY OPINION on this MATTER by the randomly capitalized WORDS. In fact, if I get any angrier I WILL begin to go all-caps, so INSTEAD I will GO AWAY from THE COMPUTER and listen TO SOOTHING YANNI MUSIC for A WHILE...

...OH GOD IT'S TOO LATE YOU'VE TURNED MY INTO ONE OF *THEM*!!!!!!!!! LOOK AT ALL THE EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!!!!! ARRRGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## dswallow

Rob Helmerichs said:


> On behalf of mattack I am OFFENDED that you would ACCUSE him so blatantly and viciously of even being WILLING to consider such brazenly illegal acts. It is an ASSAULT on his integrity so severe that YOU should possibly BE banned for life FROM THIS forum. You can TELL the strength of MY OPINION on this MATTER by the randomly capitalized WORDS. In fact, if I get any angrier I WILL begin to go all-caps, so INSTEAD I will GO AWAY from THE COMPUTER and listen TO SOOTHING YANNI MUSIC for A WHILE...
> 
> ...OH GOD IT'S TOO LATE YOU'VE TURNED MY INTO ONE OF *THEM*!!!!!!!!! LOOK AT ALL THE EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!!!!! ARRRGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You should be ashamed of yourself for spelling everything correctly.


----------



## WhiskeyTango

dswallow said:


> I see the comment around here quite often that people are recording episodes but waiting to watch when it becomes apparent the network isn't going to screw them over and kill the series in the middle. And that attitude comes from having previously been screwed over by networks killing series in the middle.
> 
> Is it a statistically relevant number of people? I don't know. But I get the feeling it's definitely a growing number of people; and that trend should be of concern.


I totally agree. Any series that has a chance of getting pulled early, I just record and take the 'wait and see' approach. If it stays I'll watch, if not, they're gone. Taking into account that DVR viewing is counted in the ratings within a few days of the show airing, having viewers waiting weeks to watch the episode does impact the ratings.

If it wasn't for this thread, I wouldn't even have known about the missing episode and would have likely been confused when the final episodes aired. I wonder if NBC will tell viewers that there is an episode available online.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

dswallow said:


> You should be ashamed of yourself for spelling everything correctly.


----------



## mattack

dswallow said:


> I must've missed the "legally" part in your original question someplace.


Well, if I didn't mean legally, then the answer to practically(??) ANYTHING is "yes".. i.e. torrents.


----------



## dswallow

mattack said:


> Well, if I didn't mean legally, then the answer to practically(??) ANYTHING is "yes".. i.e. torrents.


Not really true at all. And it still doesn't answer the "where" part. Just because something may be available as a torrent download somewhere doesn't automatically make it available universally to anyone who happens to ask for it.

Anyway, you're the one who asked. And you got an answer to your question. If there's answers you know are out there and don't want to get, you should rephrase your question appropriately next time.


----------



## kcarl75

Soak question:

Is there a website similar to moviepoopers.com that gives spoilers to tv shows? Either by episode or a series as a whole?


----------



## nickels

Found this, but I don't like spoilers so I didn't see if it was any good:
http://www.spoilertv.com/


----------



## wprager

dswallow said:


> You should be ashamed of yourself for spelling everything correctly.


Ahem:


> YOU'VE TURNED *MY* INTO ONE OF THEM


OK, so technically it's _grammar_, not spelling.


----------



## mattack

The bizarre thing is that in the Bay Area, the first episode on the 28th airs on KRON, and the second airs on KNTV (the actual NBC affiliate, an O&O even).

I didn't check yet, but I suspect there's sports or something on KNTV that day.. which I hope means the episode will actually air in its entirety.

I guess I _will_ make myself watch the online only episode. I don't mean "make myself" in that it's bad to watch it, I mean that it's making myself watch a TV show on a computer monitor without a Tivo. I still haven't watched the online only episodes of Happy Town... I've *started* a few times, but even watching on a big screen at work during lunch, I don't like watching it this way. (I just checked, happy town is still online.. whew).


----------



## jon777

I guess I'll be watching two episodes on line, since NBC4 NY does not appear to be showing this weeks episode (pre-empted by preseason football, and doesn't appear any intention of airing it at a later time slot...)


----------



## bsnelson

So, can we talk about the show itself some more? 

The end of ep. 9 showed reporter dude and his GF/boss stumbling into a clearing after being chased around in South America by hands of blue, er, uh, coveralls of blue, and on outward appearance, they're looking at the town where the main characters are. However, during the whole "Janet and Joe in the cabin" thing, she made a point to note that they were still in the northern hemisphere based on constellations. So, it seems one of a few things are afoot:

1. The town that reporter dude and GF stumbled onto is a different "camp" located in South America
2. Janet's astronomy skills are lame
3. Writers screwed up (I really hope it's not this)
4. Some kind of time/space travel funkiness going on (I really, really hope it's not this)

My gut feel is that it's (1), and it'll be interesting to see if there are participants already there, or are they the first "new" residents and will be joined by others etc. 

Oh, and major whatever-the-opposite-of-kudos points to NBC for doing this crap with the 11th episode. :down:

Brad


----------



## DevdogAZ

I don't remember the conversation between Joe and Janet about being in the northern hemisphere, but I'll take your word for it. If that's true, then I think #1 has to be the answer, because the others just wouldn't make sense.


----------



## verdugan

DevdogAZ said:


> I don't remember the conversation between Joe and Janet about being in the northern hemisphere, but I'll take your word for it. If that's true, then I think #1 has to be the answer, because the others just wouldn't make sense.


I don't remember that conversation either, but I believe you too. My money is on #3 -- a writer's error. I bet they didn't realize it until they read it here. Good catch.


----------



## Jeeters

I won't put the spoiler here, but if you want to know the explanation of the town, read the description for the upcoming episode at tv.com (and I suppose other TV-related sites. It, unfortunately , spills the beans.


----------



## jon777

I vaguely do remember the conversation. Seemed like a throwaway line at the item... Would be very lame if it's a writing continuity gap... Am hoping it's an empty (or a seperate live) town...


----------



## IGWTAOPC

jon777 said:


> I guess I'll be watching two episodes on line, since NBC4 NY does not appear to be showing this weeks episode (pre-empted by preseason football, and doesn't appear any intention of airing it at a later time slot...)


WNBC has it listed for 8 PM tonight on subchannel 4-2 and again on 4-2 for the final two episodes next week at 8 and 9 PM respectively. In NY that's postage stamp SD which will look pretty poor when zoomed to 16x9 full screen, but at least it's available.

Thumbs up to NBC to provide motivation for folks to look into that there downloading HD video on the internet thing.


----------



## marksman

Is tonight episode 10, and then next week episode 12 and 13?


----------



## dswallow

IGWTAOPC said:


> WNBC has it listed for 8 PM tonight on subchannel 4-2 and again on 4-2 for the final two episodes next week at 8 and 9 PM respectively. In NY that's postage stamp SD which will look pretty poor when zoomed to 16x9 full screen, but at least it's available.
> 
> Thumbs up to NBC to provide motivation for folks to look into that there downloading HD video on the internet thing.


After picking myself up off the floor, where I fell, in shock, after hearing the news that WNBC finally did the sort of thing I've been screaming for stations to do in pre-emption situations for years -- use a subchannel -- I just created new season passes to grab new episodes from it.

Now it's a shame we can't get TiVo to actually improve the capabilities of their software without a 5 year turnaround...


----------



## kenr

IGWTAOPC said:


> WNBC has it listed for 8 PM tonight on subchannel 4-2 and again on 4-2 for the final two episodes next week at 8 and 9 PM respectively. In NY that's postage stamp SD which will look pretty poor when zoomed to 16x9 full screen, but at least it's available.
> 
> Thumbs up to NBC to provide motivation for folks to look into that there downloading HD video on the internet thing.


Too bad the NY DirectTV station doesn't carry the sub-channels. For those of us, there are no more airings of Persons Unknown. There's nothing in the DirecTV program guide at all, for any station, for this show.


----------



## jhowell

Episode 10 (Identity) apparently didn't air here in Tampa. It was removed from the guide. I see that episode 11 (Seven Sacrifices) is available on Hulu, but I plan to wait to watch it until I see if episode 10 becomes available also.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/172694/persons-unknown-seven-sacrifices


----------



## Cainebj

dswallow said:


> after hearing the news that WNBC finally did the sort of thing I've been screaming for stations to do in pre-emption situations for years -- use a subchannel


GREAT IDEA - UNLESS you don't know it was happening until after it happened.

...so I just missed whatever aired tonight.


----------



## scooterboy

PSA: Episode 10 is now on TVtorrents.com.


----------



## fred2

jhowell said:


> Episode 10 (Identity) apparently didn't air here in Tampa. It was removed from the guide. I see that episode 11 (Seven Sacrifices) is available on Hulu, but I plan to wait to watch it until I see if episode 10 becomes available also.
> 
> http://www.hulu.com/watch/172694/persons-unknown-seven-sacrifices


Missing in Seattle, too. There's, ahem, a torrent competing for my browsing attention as I type. I'm hoping someone provides a torrent for the online segment, too.


----------



## jsmeeker

Episode 10 aired as expected on the NBC Channel in Dallas. TiVo recorded it. I watched it. What are all the options for obtaining/watching episode 11? Just Hulu?


----------



## nickels

I plan on watching Episode 11 just like 1-10: download torrent, extract to video folder on PC, stream fom PC to Tivo and enjoy on the big screen. There is no chance I am watching it on my PC.


As for episode 10, not too shabby. It seems there are a couple of similar towns, as the reporters are not in the same town as Joe and Co (or am I confused on this). All the people have apparently been watched by "management" for the better part of their lives. I can't wait to see how this unfolds in the next 3 hours.


----------



## jsmeeker

How come you just aren't TiVo'ing these episodes? I can't do that with 11, obviously, and like you, would prefer to watch it on the TV is possible.


----------



## appleye1

Episode 10 didn't show here, instead it was NFL pre-season.

I see on Tivo's to do list that next Saturday we get episode 12 (And Then There Was One) at 8PM and episode 13 (Shadows in the Cave) at 9PM. So we're not getting 10 and 12 at all. Evidently the local station thinks this show is so crappy they can skip two episodes and people won't notice. (Maybe they're right.)

Basically NBC is shooting holes in the show and letting it bleed to death, when they ought to just kill it outright.


----------



## DevdogAZ

bsnelson said:


> I think you're talking about episode 10, and Rob and Doug are talking about episode 11. Much of episode 11 took place either outside the town, or in places in the town where the "townfolk" don't normally go.
> 
> Brad


Ah, gotcha. I haven't watched 11 yet. I'll hopefully find time to watch it in the next couple of nights.


----------



## AlphaDelta

photoshopgrl said:


> So now we are supposed to believe that Janet is soooo special even Liam can't escape falling under he spell? Bah.


Just in case



Spoiler



According to Liam those in the program "give up intimacy", so if a pretty girl touches your hand, you apparently loose it


----------



## jhowell

I just hope that they knew that there was no hope for renewal and that the last two episodes wrap up the plot. I'll be pissed if it ends with a cliff hanger. I don&#8217;t have much faith in "By the end of the summer, all will be revealed"&#8221;.


----------



## mattack

jhowell said:


> Episode 10 (Identity) apparently didnt air here in Tampa. It was removed from the guide. I see that episode 11 (Seven Sacrifices) is available on Hulu, but I plan to wait to watch it until I see if episode 10 becomes available also.


You can watch it on NBC.com.


----------



## mattack

nickels said:


> It seems there are a couple of similar towns, as the reporters are not in the same town as Joe and Co


At first I went back a couple of times, since I wasn't sure at first either. The funny thing though is that "both" towns have the same exact hills.. heh.


----------



## Jeeters

jhowell said:


> I just hope that they knew that there was no hope for renewal and that the last two episodes wrap up the plot. I'll be pissed if it ends with a cliff hanger. I dont have much faith in "By the end of the summer, all will be revealed".


It was stated up front that this is a completely self-contained 13 episode show with a beginning and an end; NBC pretty much thinks of it as a mini-series, but with its airing stretched out over weeks instead of days.


----------



## verdugan

astrohip said:


> While some NBC/Hulu episodes of Persons Unknown are captioned, they neglected to caption this one.
> 
> So the one episode that will DRIVE viewers to the web, they don't caption. Way to thank your loyal viewers, NBC. :down:
> 
> Anyone have any idea if there is any captioned episode, anywhere? I'm not familiar with web viewing, is it possible some other source is captioned?
> 
> Thanks.


I just checked on Hulu and episode 11 *is* captioned. Give it a try.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

bsnelson said:


> I think you're talking about episode 10, and Rob and Doug are talking about episode 11. Much of episode 11 took place either outside the town, or in places in the town where the "townfolk" don't normally go.


Yeah...I tried to be vague on the assumption that more people than usual will not have seen the most recent (i.e., the unaired but distributed) episode before reading the thread this week. Sorry for any confusion.


----------



## DevdogAZ

Watched episode 11 last night. I think there was about 5 minutes worth of interesting information and the rest was just boring, so if they can figure out a way to shoehorn that information into the beginning of Ep. 12, or in the "previously on" recap, then it won't really matter that NBC didn't air Ep. 11.


----------



## astrohip

verdugan said:


> I just checked on Hulu and episode 11 *is* captioned. Give it a try.


THANK YOU! Strangely, it was not captioned when I first tried. Now it is. I appreciate the update! :up:

Now I can watch this *thrilling* episode.


----------



## kenr

DevdogAZ said:


> Watched episode 11 last night. I think there was about 5 minutes worth of interesting information and the rest was just boring, so if they can figure out a way to shoehorn that information into the beginning of Ep. 12, or in the "previously on" recap, then it won't really matter that NBC didn't air Ep. 11.


I've enjoyed the entire series and can't understand why you didn't find more than 5 minutes of interesting material. On the contrary, I found it all interesting.


----------



## DevdogAZ

kenr said:


> I've enjoyed the entire series and can't understand why you didn't find more than 5 minutes of interesting material. On the contrary, I found it all interesting.


I thought the stuff between Janet and Liam was ridiculous. Likewise the stuff between Janet and Joe, Janet and Erika/Teresa, Charlie and Blackham, Liam, Charlie and Blackham in the barbershop, and McNair and Moira. In fact, pretty much everything that happened in the town this episode was a snoozefest. The only interesting stuff in the episode was Renbe getting sprung from jail after the thumbs alerted The Program to his whereabouts, and The Director mentioning that Town 27 is going to be flushed, including Liam.


----------



## verdugan

astrohip said:


> THANK YOU! Strangely, it was not captioned when I first tried. Now it is. I appreciate the update! :up:
> 
> Now I can watch this *thrilling* episode.


Cool. Remember that I said episode 10 wasn't closed captioned? Well, it is now.


----------



## jschuur

For a while there I wasn't sure what direction they were taking. I saw a few possibilities:


 Liam was playing Janet by pretending to have feelings, and Janet was falling for it (unlikely on both accounts).
 Liam was playing Janet by pretending to have feelings, Janet saw through it and was actually playing Liam in return by going along until she could use that to her advantage (more likely). 
 Liam was playing Janet, who saw through it and played back, but Liam knew what she was doing too, and this was exactly the kind of manipulation that the program rewarded, but he was playing along, to see if she could keep it up (this seemed the most likely scenario).

I just wish I knew how many turtles down this thing goes.

Until that final scene with the Director, I was convinced Liam was in control of everything, just like he was stringing the rest of the town along. Of course, the moment he didn't get what 'Good bye Liam' meant, I started to change my mind. It seemed unlikely that that Director just completely misjudged Liam's assessment and was going to kill everyone over it. Perhaps she knew all along what a head case Liam was and this was just the final straw and a convenient opportunity to dispose of him?

So there are at least 27 towns and things are starting to go increasingly wrong. Can't be the participants' fault. It must be something within the organization.

My earlier virtual reality theory is starting to make less sense. Even if you assume that the South America town we saw was an older site from before they went virtual (looked awfully clean to me), why bring the dead bodies back into the town via vans? In fact, if those bodies were abductees from elsewhere, why bring them back to the South American town at all? I'm pegging this one on bad writing, where they tried to pull a Silence of the Lambs on us and make us think Renbe and Kat were right outside when the rest were in lockdown, but they weren't.

I suspect Liam is going to be crucial in helping the abductees escape, once he realizes he's been written off.


----------



## DevdogAZ

jschuur said:


> For a while there I wasn't sure what direction they were taking. I saw a few possibilities:
> 
> 
> Liam was playing Janet by pretending to have feelings, and Janet was falling for it (unlikely on both accounts).
> Liam was playing Janet by pretending to have feelings, Janet saw through it and was actually playing Liam in return by going along until she could use that to her advantage (more likely).
> Liam was playing Janet, who saw through it and played back, but Liam knew what she was doing too, and this was exactly the kind of manipulation that the program rewarded, but he was playing along, to see if she could keep it up (this seemed the most likely scenario).
> 
> I just wish I knew how many turtles down this thing goes.


I think it's simpler than that, because it's difficult to convey in a short TV show (with actors of limited acting abilities and writers with questionable writing skills) the type of countermanipulation that you're talking about. Therefore, I think it's exactly as they portrayed it: Liam was taken by Janet, and she sensed it and decided to manipulate him to get more info from him. 


jschuur said:


> Until that final scene with the Director, I was convinced Liam was in control of everything, just like he was stringing the rest of the town along. Of course, the moment he didn't get what 'Good bye Liam' meant, I started to change my mind. It seemed unlikely that that Director just completely misjudged Liam's assessment and was going to kill everyone over it. Perhaps she knew all along what a head case Liam was and this was just the final straw and a convenient opportunity to dispose of him?


I thought they made it pretty obvious when Liam was watching footage of him kissing Janet and basically pining over her, while The Director was watching Liam watch that footage. She knew right then that he was a lost cause and was simply humoring him in that final conversation.


jschuur said:


> So there are at least 27 towns and things are starting to go increasingly wrong. Can't be the participants' fault. It must be something within the organization.
> 
> My earlier virtual reality theory is starting to make less sense. Even if you assume that the South America town we saw was an older site from before they went virtual (looked awfully clean to me), why bring the dead bodies back into the town via vans? In fact, if those bodies were abductees from elsewhere, why bring them back to the South American town at all? I'm pegging this one on bad writing, where they tried to pull a Silence of the Lambs on us and make us think Renbe and Kat were right outside when the rest were in lockdown, but they weren't.
> 
> I suspect Liam is going to be crucial in helping the abductees escape, once he realizes he's been written off.


I don't think they brought the dead bodies back into town in the vans. We saw them unloading empty body bags and gurneys from the vans. Then we saw later that those body bags had been filled. I'm fairly certain those bodies were from the participants in that town and they'd been killed in the Hotel a couple doors down and brought into the bank vault via the back corridors that the staff uses. That's why Renbe and the girl didn't see them wheeling the gurneys with bodybags down the sidewalk.

And yes, they definitely tried to pull a "Silence of the Lambs" misdirection, although they didn't do a very good job. I thought it was pretty obvious from the start of that episode that they were in a completely different town.

I'm just curious why it was important for The Organization to create a town in South America (and presumably elsewhere) that looked identical to the one we've become familiar with, right down to the vegitation and hills surrounding the town. If these towns are secret, and if the participants never move between towns, why does it matter if they look identical. And the answer to that question is that it doesn't matter, The Organization doesn't care, and the TV show simply used the same set for both towns to try and fake the audience out. Which would be fine if they had a plausible explanation, but they don't, so it's just stupid.


----------



## jschuur

Excellent points, DevdogAZ. I'd forgotten about the empty body bags and will admit I was only half paying attention to the screen on another monitor while I was just watching the last episode on Hulu, so I missed Liam replaying the encounter with Janet.

I think you're spot on about the plot being as simple as possible for the viewers to understand too. I think I've even preached the TV writing equivalent of Occam's Razor in previous threads myself too.


----------



## Hcour

Wait a minute. WAIT A MINUTE! I'm watching ep 10 when Graham says he threw the belt in the river when he was 14. The guy is what, at least mid-20's now. So they were watching him then some 10 years ago, and they somehow retrieved the belt from the river, and and and...

This is, w/o a doubt, the most ridiculous tv show I have ever stuck with this long. Right now I just want it to end.

EDIT: Ah, well, the next scene they show Janet on video as a little child. So I guess they have indeed been watching them all their lives. At least it's consistent. Still far-fetched, but consistent.


----------



## wprager

Well since I cannot use NBC.com or Hulu (in Canada), I have to resort to downloading. I'm not a fan of bittorrent, but I googled and found several download sites where I can get episode 11. I downloaded it from something called hotfile, and while it plays the audio, there was no video. I was using WMP to play it. Any idea why it failed?


----------



## mtnagel

Try VLC. Mine works fine.


----------



## DevdogAZ

wprager said:


> Well since I cannot use NBC.com or Hulu (in Canada), I have to resort to downloading. I'm not a fan of bittorrent, but I googled and found several download sites where I can get episode 11. I downloaded it from something called hotfile, and while it plays the audio, there was no video. I was using WMP to play it. Any idea why it failed?


Usually in those situations, your system is missing a codec needed to play the file. You can either install a codec pack like this one, or you can download and use VLC like mtnagel suggested, since it seems to always be able to play everything.


----------



## wprager

K-Lite did the trick. Thank you.


----------



## LlamaLarry

I will finally be caught up tonight, stupid NBC not showing episode 10 in my market and not showing episode 11 on TV at all. Grumble, grumble.


----------



## Alfer

Finally watched the episode from this past weekend.

Good lord was that boring....I ended up just half listening to their gibberish chats while surfing on the computer...thank goodness they put this TV program FAIL to rest.

Again I'm in it to the end since I watched pretty much every ep, but what a HUGE letdown this was.


----------



## janry

dswallow said:


> I just finished watching Episode 11.
> 
> Until seeing number 12 and number 13 I probably can't know for certain, but right now I'm feeling it would be very difficult to go into episode 12 without having seen episode 11. It just feels that several things that occurred are important to the continuing story line.


I watched 11 last night and I agree.


----------



## AndreZero

Does Liam not realize he's being watched? You'd think someone who had been through the program, and been in a position monitoring the program, would know that the control room is monitored...

It took me a while to realize who the guy with the eye-patch was. I think I got it just before they spelled it out.


----------



## jsmeeker

I can't find this on Hulu. A search for Persons Unknown only returns a hit for a movie made in 1996.

WTF. Is this now completely gone?


----------



## kenr

jsmeeker said:


> I can't find this on Hulu. A search for Persons Unknown only returns a hit for a movie made in 1996.
> 
> WTF. Is this now completely gone?


A google search for:
hulu persons unknown 
revealed this link http://www.hulu.com/persons-unknown-tv


----------



## jsmeeker

thanks. That works better. Not sure why I was having issues searching directly in Hulu itself.


----------



## nickels

The biggest thing that bugs me about the show (besides the mediocre writing and terrible acting) is the characters and the overall plot. Are they trying to sell me that this top secret, very organized, super powerful organization that has been around for 50+ years is about to be taken down by two hack reporters? Of course, none of that may happen in the next two episodes, but those buffoons would have been killed ten times over if this were going on for real. 

Also, I am having trouble with the relationship between McNair and Moira. She may be the least sexy woman on TV. His acting is as wooden as it gets. I couldn't care less about these two people. Wait, I feel the same way about almost every character on the show. Are any of them even remotely likable beside Ferris Bueller's best friend?

Only two more episodes... This show had such potential.


----------



## Hcour

nickels said:


> I couldn't care less about these two people. Wait, I feel the same way about almost every character on the show. Are any of them even remotely likable beside Ferris Bueller's best friend?


Yep. And all these characters keep falling for Janet. She's not especially pretty, or sexy, or charming, or charismatic, in fact she's just a mediocre actress like the rest of them.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, this show should have been half as many eps, it would have been much tighter and reasonably interesting. As is, so much of it has been filler.


----------



## dswallow

Hcour said:


> Yep. And all these characters keep falling for Janet. She's not especially pretty, or sexy, or charming, or charismatic, in fact she's just a mediocre actress like the rest of them.
> 
> As mentioned earlier in the thread, this show should have been half as many eps, it would have been much tighter and reasonably interesting. As is, so much of it has been filler.


It's not that she's attractive or not; it's that she's the least unattractive/least annoying/least whiny of the bunch, therefore these guys are attracted to her (generally speaking).


----------



## squint

One of the first things I noticed when I first started watching was that the actors were all very ordinary-looking compared to the casts of many other shows.


----------



## jsmeeker

Tori was HAWT.

Janet is a MILF. For me, the only issue I have with her is the way she fawned over Joe, despite all the stuff going on with him.


----------



## DevdogAZ

Tori really wasn't all that hawt. She was certainly very attractive, but as the young, hot party girl she was supposed to be, I would have expected her character to be much hotter. Especially on a TV show. 

I agree with squint that the cast of this show overall is very average looking when compared to other TV shows. Nothing wrong with that at all, provided the average-looking actors can create compelling characters. Unfortunately, not many of these did.


----------



## mattack

I think Janet's very attractive.


----------



## brettatk

brettatk said:


> Since it isn't ever airing on TV, I assume there will not be a 720p version available? If not then I guess it's time to go grab it off of usenet.


Drats, 720p version showed up last night on usenet. Guess I should have waited a few more days. Oh well, I guess the SD quality wasn't that bad but the sound wasn't near as good.

I also think Janet can be very attractive.


----------



## nickels

Janet is ordinary attractive, she isn't ruin your whole life and throw everything you believe in hot.

Tori was OK, again nothing out of this world hot. They had hotter, and better actresses on Baywatch. Think about that for a minute.


----------



## scooterboy

Any hotness Tori had was more than offset by her personality. Same thing often happens in real life.


----------



## ElJay

Janet would be even more attractive if they'd let the actress use her native Australian accent...


----------



## mattack

I started watching the 'unaired' episode at lunch today (at work) on nbc.com. Even on the 'small' size, it was definitely WATCHABLE, but it's like every couple of seconds it did a VERY VERY brief pause. Not enough to make it unwatchable, and still far better than not seeing the episode AT ALL, but still very strange. and actually, I think it did pretty much exactly the same thing at ALL image sizes, even full screen. So it's hard to explain, not a real 'stutter' like you might get streaming from other sites with a low bandwidth connection.

While I admit it was a MUCH MUCH MUCH shorter trial, when I started the episode at hulu, after the ad of course, it didn't seem to do that at all, even on a big sized window.

So sure, YMMV, but I'd suggest watching it at hulu, since it probably will look better. (Plus you can do one 'long' ad at the beginning and supposedly not have any more ads through the show.) Will likely watch the rest of the episode online this weekend.


----------



## wprager

I just saw over on the Futon Critic that NBC is airing #12 and #13 tonight? Weren't they originally planning to air the finale on September 4?

Edit: My guide has a single episode at 9, and the 8PM slot (where the Futon Critic has episode 12) has Wheel of Fortune and Infomercial. I'd double-check to be safe.


----------



## verdugan

wprager said:


> I just saw over on the Futon Critic that NBC is airing #12 and #13 tonight? Weren't they originally planning to air the finale on September 4?
> 
> Edit: My guide has a single episode at 9, and the 8PM slot (where the Futon Critic has episode 12) has Wheel of Fortune and Infomercial. I'd double-check to be safe.


That's what the whole mess about episode #11 being shown online was all about. They are showing #11 online and they are pullling in the season finale.


----------



## wprager

I guess I missed the furor -- only caught the part about #11 being only online. You'd think my guide data would have been updated by now.


----------



## jsmeeker

wait.. so, nothing tonight? Not two episodes. Not one. Nothing?


----------



## scooterboy

verdugan said:


> That's what the whole mess about episode #11 being shown online was all about. They are showing #11 online and they are pullling in the season finale.


I have no idea what "pullling in the season finale" means, but my tivo listings show episode 12 at 8pm and episode 13 at 9pm.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

My listings show both episodes in the middle of the night (local NFL game in the evening). So plenty of padding and I should be OK.

[edit] Oops, since the last time I checked it's been moved again, to Sunday afternoon. With no sports earlier in the day, so yay! No padding needed!


----------



## wprager

jsmeeker said:


> wait.. so, nothing tonight? Not two episodes. Not one. Nothing?


Well, according to Futon Critic NBC is running the last two episodes tonight between 8 and 10 PM. My guide only shows episode 12 in the 9PNM slot, some people are reporting same as Futon Critic, others are saying it's move to tomorrow.

I guess NBC really, really doesn't give a crap if anyone watches it. Well, certainly the affiliates don't.

I think I'll just skip the scheduled recording and record a two-hour block from 8 to 10PM (padded appropriately if there is a game before).


----------



## jsmeeker

wprager said:


> Well, according to Futon Critic NBC is running the last two episodes tonight between 8 and 10 PM. My guide only shows episode 12 in the 9PNM slot, some people are reporting same as Futon Critic, others are saying it's move to tomorrow.
> 
> I guess NBC really, really doesn't give a crap if anyone watches it. Well, certainly the affiliates don't.
> 
> I think I'll just skip the scheduled recording and record a two-hour block from 8 to 10PM (padded appropriately if there is a game before).


Oh... I see.

My guide data shows Persons Unknown at 7:00 PM and 8:00 PM. This is for KXASDT in Dallas. The To Do list on my TiVo indicates it will record both of them. I guess we shall see what actually airs.


----------



## dswallow

They're on now on WNBC-NY... on a subchannel, as expected.


----------



## rondotcom

Well I guess we won't see what happens on level 2.


----------



## jsmeeker

rondotcom said:


> Well I guess we won't see what happens on level 2.


No.. But I don't think we were ever supposed to.


----------



## rondotcom

jsmeeker said:


> No.. But I don't think we were ever supposed to.


I'm not that sure I'm happy with what happened on Level 1


----------



## jsmeeker

rondotcom said:


> I'm not that sure I'm happy with what happened on Level 1


At least we got to find out about what really happened to Tori.

Is Joe always the inside guy on level one? I would guess he's already progressed through multiple levels already, though.


----------



## Family

That was their idea of all being revealed?


----------



## TIVO_GUY_HERE

My God, I'm glad this is over. I was really happy when it looked like they all killed each other.


----------



## verdugan

OMG What a big bag of suck that was! So much for "at the end of the summer all questions will be answered."


----------



## verdugan

scooterboy said:


> I have no idea what "pullling in the season finale" means, but my tivo listings show episode 12 at 8pm and episode 13 at 9pm.


It means that originally it was supossed to end on Sept 4. They skipped showing episode #11, and they are showing the finale early (i.e., pulled in).


----------



## bsnelson

Family said:


> That was their idea of all being revealed?





verdugan said:


> OMG What a big bag of suck that was! So much for "at the end of the summer all questions will be answered."





rondotcom said:


> I'm not that sure I'm happy with what happened on Level 1


These. 

What a crock.

Brad


----------



## innocentfreak

Yeah that was pretty disappointing for an all will be revealed. Of course if they did a season 2 I would probably tune in.


----------



## Fool Me Twice

So glad that's over. Terrible show. I've never sat through so many episodes of a show that failed so badly in nearly every creative department. I just loved the concept that much, I guess. I admit, though, that I actually got a little excited when I heard "Welcome to Level 2." I'm just a sucker for that type of story.


----------



## nickels

jsmeeker said:


> Didn't we see them climb out of the body bags in episode 12?


Yes, that is my point, it was too fast. We didn't get a minute to think they were all dead before the truth was revealed. Done properly, the suspense of what just happened would have been dragged out a little longer.

As for all the questions above, the answer is poor writing.


----------



## loubob57

The biggest hole (and there were more for sure) for me was how the heck did all those people get scattered all over the place. Morocco? C'mon!


----------



## pjenkins

What a huge ball of gigantic suck. Wife and I are not watching any of these types of shows again anytime soon, if one turns out to actually be good/worth it someday, we'll pick up DVDs after it concludes. First Flash Forward now this POS. Man, we are(were) suckers...


----------



## jsmeeker

loubob57 said:


> The biggest hole (and there were more for sure) for me was how the heck did all those people get scattered all over the place. Morocco? C'mon!


That's what I want to know, too.

Morocco. San Francisco. Who knows where else. We don't even know where the town they were in was located. It was made clear that there were multiple towns (we saw this in episode 10 when Renbe and Cat stumbled upon a town in South America)

Am I gonna be a sucker for "The Event"? Probably. I just can't TiVo all of it and have it sit around for weeks and weeks waiting to see if it will stick around. I don't have the space to hold it all, and if it DOES turn out to be worthy, I'll never get around to watching the backlog.


----------



## nickels

jsmeeker said:


> I just can't TiVo all of it and have it sit around for weeks and weeks waiting to see if it will stick around. I don't have the space to hold it all, and if it DOES turn out to be worthy, I'll never get around to watching the backlog.


This is why I download all of these shows via Torrents. Laws aside, what is the difference really? Not to side track the discussion with talks about laws and torrents, as I don't want to go there. Just giving you the option that I use, as Tivo space is also a problem for me. PC space isn't. I guess I could TiVo everything and move it to my PC, but that is more work and time then simply downloading the shows later.

Back to Persons Unknown - that crash would have seriously injured most of the people in the van. It is weird how that accident magically transported everyone to various places in the world. I only wish we could get the writers/developers insight on what went on and where the show was heading, since there isn't a chance it will come back for a season two.

http://www.tvsquad.com/2010/08/30/is-the-persons-unknown-finale-the-worst-series-finale-ever-v/
Good article about the finale.


----------



## Cainebj

loubob57 said:


> The biggest hole (and there were more for sure) for me was how the heck did all those people get scattered all over the place. Morocco? C'mon!


I have to admit that was a moment where I think I actually laughed out loud and then said WTF?


----------



## jsmeeker

nickels said:


> This is why I download all of these shows via Torrents. Laws aside, what is the difference really? Not to side track the discussion with talks about laws and torrents, as I don't want to go there. Just giving you the option that I use, as Tivo space is also a problem for me. PC space isn't. I guess I could TiVo everything and move it to my PC, but that is more work and time then simply downloading the shows later.


Even if I did that, I would still have the dilema of waiting long enough before asking someone (here?) for a concensus on the show while avoiding spoilers. And if I get the "thumbs up", I then have a huge backlog of stuff to watch. That's kinda tough for me to do. If I can't keep up with a show as it airs more or less, than it becomes far less likely for me to wtach it.


----------



## nickels

Some more answers via facebook - from the woman playing the director:

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=130646200281786&topic=233#topic_top


> Joanna Lipari Hi guys...I'm here and we can talk further tomorrow. I did want to wait until it aired out here in California.
> 
> So here are a few answers -- Janet's mother and I knew each other for many years...we were committed to the Program. In fact, part of the The Program was to have children that would have the right genetic makeup to advance the program -- hence Janet.
> 
> The purpose of the Program? Well, it might be misguided but it is a behavioral shaping program aimed at creating altruistic super leaders...thinks Mother Theresa, Nelson Mandela. Folks who can withstand great stress to accomplish great good. But while the motive might be a good one -- does the end justify the means?
> 
> Angela Barragan and her sister, Helen (did anyone catch that for the first time, I was addressed by a name? And that name is Helen) were both part of the program but came to feel differently about it. They became enemies. Angela escaped the Program...but no one really escapes.
> 
> As to a second season -- no, I don't think so. Of course, you never know. But it looks like NBC isn't really interested in the show.
> 
> Re negative comments on other message boards: I have never been involved in any project (even ones incredibly successful) that didn't get its share of negative comments. For me personally, of course I want people to like my work. But if they don't, they don't. Being an artist is about the courage to keep creating even in the face of criticism, cynicism, negativism, whatever. I do my job and hope folks like it. Those that don't...well, I hate lima beans...it's not the lima bean's fault. Just not my taste.





> Joanna Lipari @ Rachel --re Blackham knowing Charlie's wife's name...well, frankly, that IS a cliffhanger...and is supposed to be tantalizing to the audience and a tease for season 2. And boy, it was a great one for me! I LOVE that scene. Those two actors are really great guys and I thought they did a fantastic job. I only read that in the script. I only saw it for the first time myself as you did. I thought they were amazing.


----------



## nickels

and more



> Joanna Lipari WOW...You guys are AWESOME!!! So many good ideas, analyses, everything. So let me first say that when this first season was made, it was as a hopefully ongoing tv series. NBC then decided to call it a summer mini series.
> 
> Even MY knowledge of the show is limited to what I understood of my character at the time of filming. For example, at this moment in time, I understand Angela and Helen (The Director) to be twin sisters, but during filming I was also told that there is the possibility that The Director is "impersonating" Angela Barragan, a separate individual -- the only one that DID escape the Program only to be permanently incarcerated.
> 
> So the result: if there IS a season Two, them might decide I'm impersonating Angela or might decide I'm twins. (Remember when Janet shows up in the hospital, The Director impersonates a doctor to "explain" her rantings about The Program.)
> 
> Acting note: for me it didn't matter, because I had to create an Angela either way...either because I'm a master impersonator or because I'm a different person. I just had to make sure they were distinctly different. Very funny, because the very first scene I did when arriving on the set was as Angela with Kat and Renbe. So I'm dressed up as Angela and we go through the day and chat between takes, etc. The other actors hadn't seen me as a regular person. The next day, I walked on the set as the Director and Lola and Gerald were finishing up one of their scenes and in between takes I walked up and said hello -- not realizing that I looked completely different. The two stared at me -- cause to them I'm now a complete stranger -- and I was wondering what the heck? Why aren't they being friendly, when suddenly the two realized I was the same person and they jumped out of their chairs and hugged me. It was awesome. I had fooled even them!
> 
> BTW Lola (Kat) and Gerald (Renbe) are wonderful people...as were the other actors. SO MUCH FUN during meal breaks...crazy and silly.





> Joanna Lipari @ Joe...I think you are right. But two things -- Joe is again performing the same function as he did originally so he hasn't progressed. (From my POV playing the Director, I'm punishing him by making him repeat and hoping that I can redeem him.) and TWO, I've put RENBE in with him!!! That's an added stressor for both of them. How that plays out, I have no idea -- either as the actor or the character. That's where the writers have seeded a plot for the next season and us actors are pretty clueless how it will play out.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Somehow, it completely escaped me that it was the same woman playing both characters.


----------



## Fool Me Twice

I never even noticed that the Director and the crazy lady were the same actress. Now I feel stupid. And if it was mentioned in this thread I feel doubly stupid.

Thanks for posting that, though.

Edit: Oh, I see Rob missed it too. I had to do a little internet research to verify because it seemed unlikely this thread missed that entirely.


----------



## DancnDude

I did notice they were the same. I thought the director took on the nurse's role to try to find out info from Janet about where the others were, how they escaped, and such.


----------



## Fool Me Twice

DancnDude said:


> I did notice they were the same. I thought the director took on the nurse's role to try to find out info from Janet about where the others were, how they escaped, and such.


No, not the nurse. Obviously that was the same character. But, the crazy lady in the mental institution. She and the Director were played by the same actress.


----------



## DevdogAZ

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Somehow, it completely escaped me that it was the same woman playing both characters.


Funny. I actually thought it was the same woman when I first saw The Director, but kind of forgot about it, and then when nobody here mentioned it, I just assumed I was wrong.


----------



## DevdogAZ

Interesting that from a production standpoint, this show was always intended to be a Season One and there were lots of loose ends and dangling plot points to be further explored in subsequent seasons. But then NBC didn't view it as an ongoing series and promoted it as a "mini-series" and said, "At the end of summer, all will be revealed." So NBC completely lied to us. Based on the marketing, I thought this had been specifically made as a short-run, self-contained show and that's a big part of why I was interested in watching it. I doubt I'd have watched at all had I known it was just another serialized show that was orphaned without a conclusion.


----------



## DancnDude

Fool Me Twice said:


> No, not the nurse. Obviously that was the same character. But, the crazy lady in the mental institution. She and the Director were played by the same actress.


Oh! I didn't see that at all either then! Thanks. I thought you were talking about her dressing up like the nurse which I thought was pretty obvious


----------



## DancnDude

DevdogAZ said:


> Interesting that from a production standpoint, this show was always intended to be a Season One and there were lots of loose ends and dangling plot points to be further explored in subsequent seasons. But then NBC didn't view it as an ongoing series and promoted it as a "mini-series" and said, "At the end of summer, all will be revealed." So NBC completely lied to us. Based on the marketing, I thought this had been specifically made as a short-run, self-contained show and that's a big part of why I was interested in watching it. I doubt I'd have watched at all had I known it was just another serialized show that was orphaned without a conclusion.


Exactly the same here. I thought it was like Harper's Island: a one-shot mystery show that would be finished by summer. That's how HI was marketed and the same with this one. If I had known it was a new show that could potentially have ended with no resolution, I probably would have skipped it.

It's also why I'm a bit upset by the ending. It's probably not the producer's fault. It was a fine season finale. NBC said all the answers would be revealed, and then few of them were.


----------



## nickels

This was sold as a miniseries but written and shot as a full blown multi-season TV show. A miniseries can stand on its own, which this show clearly cannot do. I don't mind everything not being wrapped up, but the whole plot of the show and the major questions are still as vague as they were on day one.


----------



## Cainebj

Fool Me Twice said:


> I never even noticed that the Director and the crazy lady were the same actress.


um - I missed that too. 
are you sure? the crazy lady looks thinner.


----------



## Jeeters

Cainebj said:


> the crazy lady looks thinner.


Also, crazy lady seemed like she could maybe actually act some.


----------



## pjenkins

DevdogAZ said:


> Funny. I actually thought it was the same woman when I first saw The Director, but kind of forgot about it, and then when nobody here mentioned it, I just assumed I was wrong.


i thought it was the director put in the cage to f with the reporters.... go figure... huge bag of suck is still a big bag of suck , regardless of whether the directory/producer/etc want to call it "artistic license" or whatever....


----------



## DevdogAZ

pjenkins said:


> i thought it was the director put in the cage to f with the reporters.... go figure... huge bag of suck is still a big bag of suck , regardless of whether the directory/producer/etc want to call it "artistic license" or whatever....


Well, the actress said even she wasn't sure whether it was supposed to be twin sisters, or whether it was supposed to be The Director impersonating a crazy woman. So your interpretation is every bit as valid as any other.


----------



## SorenTodd

> What are all the options for obtaining/watching episode 11? Just Hulu?


Check your "On Demand" library, if you have digital cable. Mine showed up last week (the ep is called Seven Sacrifices).

The funny thing is, it's labeled as airing on 8-21, even though we all know that the real NBC only aired one ep that night, not two.


----------



## jsmeeker

I liked seeing younger Janet. She looked pretty hawt.


----------



## Fool Me Twice

Probably because she wasn't brooding.


----------



## mattack

rondotcom said:


> I'm not that sure I'm happy with what happened on Level 1


Sorry, what are you referring to?

Apparently, I disagree with most of you guys. I think this was a VERY entertaining last couple of episodes. (I had started the online-only one on Fri, but watched most of it Saturday evening while the other episodes were Tivoing.. then watched the Tivo recordings Sat night.)

They TOTALLY tricked me, in a good way. Janet was the "hero" and they did have me going at first that Joe would be the one who got out instead.

The VERY end at first disappointed me, thinking they were all (except Joe) at a different "city".. But I thought it was COOL that it was now level 2.

..and unlike the rest of you, I do think a _lot_ was answered..

(1) it's recruitment, like I and others predicted long ago.
(2) we know that it really goes deep into society
(3) Janet's mother knows about it


----------



## jschuur

> Joanna Lipari @ Joe...I think you are right. But two things -- Joe is again performing the same function as he did originally so he hasn't progressed. (From my POV playing the Director, I'm punishing him by making him repeat and hoping that I can redeem him.)


This is an interesting revelation: Joe was a level 10 at some point I think (per a conversation with Liam if I recall right), before something caused him to get kicked back again to level 1 where he had to redeem himself again. He's not with the Level 1s again because each group includes an insider, he's merely repeating the test with an equal chance as all the others to succeed.

The comment that the organization was ultimately tasked with creating altruistic leaders just reinforces my idea that people who flunk out aren't truly killed. By whatever means, people's deaths aren't always real or are prevented, and then they're mind wiped and put back into the general population. Those that pass are also inserted back into the real world, since they're supposed to be future 'leaders'.


----------



## porges

At no point did it occur to me that the guy with the eyepatch and the facial scars was the original night manager, but according to imdb that is the case.


----------



## ADG

I'm among those who are not happy. I didn't particularly like the series, but after watching the first couple of chapters and feeling invested, and knowing it would wrap up with "the whole story being told" in 13 episodes, I watched till the end expecting a full and clear explanation. Had NBC not promised that, I would have bailed early on. Nobody likes being lied to or led on. I want my 13 hours back!!


----------



## verdugan

porges said:


> At no point did it occur to me that the guy with the eyepatch and the facial scars was the original night manager, but according to imdb that is the case.


Yes, he is. He got a haircut, which made him look a bit different. That and the eye patch


----------



## catcard

ADG said:


> I'm among those who are not happy. I didn't particularly like the series, but after watching the first couple of chapters and feeling invested, and knowing it would wrap up with "the whole story being told" in 13 episodes, I watched till the end expecting a full and clear explanation. Had NBC not promised that, I would have bailed early on. Nobody likes being lied to or led on. I want my 13 hours back!!


Totally agree with you. Is it possible to sue for viewer abuse?


----------



## pjenkins

catcard said:


> Totally agree with you. Is it possible to sue for viewer abuse?


let us know if possible, we will join in


----------



## getreal

The whole series seemed to be a big analogy to Scientology. Working through Levels. Supposedly altruistic. Ruthless to members who try to leave ... etc. etc. etc.


----------



## mattack

How were you lied to or led on? They completed the story of level 1.. it wasn't a cliffhanger.


----------



## astrohip

Add me to the giant bag of suck group. I don't know where to start. Bad acting, terrible writing. Makes Fast Forward look well directed.

I hold NBC to blame for much of this; the charge: False Expectations. Don't tell me something is a self-contained summer mini-series, with "all to be answered", when in reality it was the first season of a hopefully well-received summer fill-in, that could lead to more seasons. It was not well received, there will be no more seasons, and we weren't remotely close to getting "answers".



mattack said:


> ..and unlike the rest of you, I do think a _lot_ was answered..


It all depends on how you define "answers".

As a counter, take LOST*. I got every answer I wanted, even when we were promised none. The show felt... complete (for lack of a better word). Persons Unknown OTOH, didn't come CLOSE to feeling complete. I think the difference is LOST gave us the answers we needed (although maybe not the ones everyone wanted), whereas PU just threw a bunch of shyte up in the air, and some landed, and some splattered.

I know, not a very clear post. I've mixed up too many cliches, metaphors and similes to make any sense at this point. But I just finished watching the online episode**, followed by the two hour finale, and I can't recall ever being this disappointed by a show.

*(BTW, this is not to revive a LOST debate. I'm trying to show how different "answers" can be interpreted.)

**(BTW-II, first time I've ever watched an entire episode of anything online. Yuck. Can't begin to fathom how people do it. No zipping thru commercials, small screen and I can't lay back on the couch.:down


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## astrohip

nickels said:


> http://www.tvsquad.com/2010/08/30/is-the-persons-unknown-finale-the-worst-series-finale-ever-v/
> Good article about the finale.


Just read this. It mirrors much of what I just said, even to the LOST reference. (Could've saved ten minutes of typing and simply +1'ed the Link).



> NBC did endless promos for the show promising that "All Will Be Revealed." Remi Aubuchon, the Executive Producer of the show, even did an interview where he said this:
> 
> "[In the season one finale], there will be none of those maddening teases that we're going to tell you the answers and then we don't tell you the answers."
> 
> But that's essentially what happened. The finale was nothing but a "maddening tease." The show essentially rebooted, leaving the characters right where they started. Everyone's still trapped, except now some of the characters are trapped on a boat. ... Whoo-hoo. Big deal.
> 
> There have been finales that displeased viewers before. Many fans didn't like the last episodes of 'Lost' and 'Battlestar Galactica.' But even if you didn't like the way those shows ended, they did at least provide answers. (It's just that many fans weren't completely pleased with those answers.)
> 
> *But 'Persons Unknown' explicitly promised to wrap things up for us, and then didn't do that.* Either *NBC lied* about "revealing" everything, or the producers changed their minds
> 
> What do you guys think? *Was this a terrible finale? *Was it the most annoying finale ever? Or did you find it pleasingly mysterious, even if it was a bit inconclusive?


NBC lied. Or rather, they just said what they felt they needed to say, without any thought as to reality or the consequences. This is why no one watches this crap; they're smarter than we are.


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## dswallow

"All will be revealed" is not "All will be revealed and it will make sense and leave no questions unanswered."


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## getreal

dswallow said:


> "All will be revealed" is not "All will be revealed and it will make sense and leave no questions unanswered."


And it wasn't referring to nudity either. 

I don't understand anything about Tori's storyline. She was a rebellious daughter of an Ambassador, who was actually abducted, then she was found face up in a shallow pool (the water didn't even cover her mouth, nose or eyes), and was pronounced both dead and alive, and eventually was the new night clerk working for the Program. WTF?? 

How did the guy's head blow up? And the only clue the audience had was that the characters had to tell us. Liam screams. Blackham gets sprayed in the face with red, what's-his-face barfs, and then we're told that Liam's head exploded. WTF?? 

And how was hanging onto a second floor balcony and then falling a distance of about 5 feet from supposed to even seem like it would have killed an adult? WTF?? 

I also feel duped by the finale. The only difference in the storyline was the boat and Level 2. WTF??


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## Rob Helmerichs

So wait, let me get this straight...you all won't be standing in line when Best Buy opens on release day to buy the DVD set?


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## moot

Just some speculation here:
Level 1: Town in the middle of nowhere w/creepy Night Manager
Level 2: Boat in the middle of the ocean w/surly one-eyed Captain
Level 3: Blimp w/sadistic flight attendant
Level 4: Low-Earth orbit space station w/disgruntled Russian cosmonaut
Level 5: Moon Base w/HAL-style AI


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## nickels

dswallow said:


> "All will be revealed" is not "All will be revealed and it will make sense and leave no questions unanswered."


1: What is "The Program"?
2: Why are these people Special?
3: What happened to Tori?
4: Why did they let some of them go only to have a crazy truck driver try to kill them? What is the point of that?
5: How does Blackham know the name of Charlie's wife?
6: How did the group end up spread across the earth after the van crash with none of them having cash, IDs, all would be severly injured, and they were out in the middle of no where.
7: What was the light that the group drove into when they escaped that put them back to the start?
8: Why is the one reporter in a cage next to the ambassador?

I could go on and on... why don't we list all the things that were revealed:
1: Joe is back at Level 1, there is a new group with him including the reporter.
2: The Program has been around for 50+ years and the two dopiest reporters on Earth are the only two people that have ever gotten close to exposing them.
3: The original group moved onto level 2. 
4: If you try to escape your head magically explodes.

Wow, they sure did reveal a ton!!! NOT


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## dswallow

nickels said:


> 1: What is "The Program"?
> 2: Why are these people Special?
> 3: What happened to Tori?
> 4: Why did they let some of them go only to have a crazy truck driver try to kill them? What is the point of that?
> 5: How does Blackham know the name of Charlie's wife?
> 6: How did the group end up spread across the earth after the van crash with none of them having cash, IDs, all would be severly injured, and they were out in the middle of no where.
> 7: What was the light that the group drove into when they escaped that put them back to the start?
> 8: Why is the one reporter in a cage next to the ambassador?
> 
> I could go on and on... why don't we list all the things that were revealed:
> 1: Joe is back at Level 1, there is a new group with him including the reporter.
> 2: The Program has been around for 50+ years and the two dopiest reporters on Earth are the only two people that have ever gotten close to exposing them.
> 3: The original group moved onto level 2.
> 4: If you try to escape your head magically explodes.
> 
> Wow, they sure did reveal a ton!!! NOT


I still feel after 13 episodes of this show I have a better sense of what was going on than I did/do after 5 years of Lost. Losties need material revealed outside the episodes to figure out anything. This was pretty self-contained, too.


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## astrohip

nickels said:


> I could go on and on... why don't we list all the things that were revealed:


You forgot, "Half the people in the world are in the conspiracy, yet amazingly there has never even been a whiff hinted at in the press".



dswallow said:


> I still feel after 13 episodes of this show I have a better sense of what was going on than I did/do after 5 years of Lost. Losties need material revealed outside the episodes to figure out anything. This was pretty self-contained, too.


Let's just agree to disagree. You can like or dislike how LOST ended, but it ended. PU ended with so little closure that it's created an online rage rarely seen for a show with so few viewers.

Someone commented somewhere that this show surely must have had more than the 1.5 million viewers it rated, as there are more people complaining in the online forums than that.


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## whitson77

I can't believe that was the ending. Nothing was resolved...

And I'm guessing the ratings were not good enough that this will ever get a follow up.


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## dswallow

whitson77 said:


> I can't believe that was the ending. Nothing was resolved...
> 
> And I'm guessing the ratings were not good enough that this will ever get a follow up.


They didn't say "All will be resolved." They said "All will be revealed."


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## pjenkins

dswallow said:


> They didn't say "All will be resolved." They said "All will be revealed."


they revealed a huge bucket of suck.... that's what was revealed...


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## nickels

I don't see how anyone can defend the way this show was marketed vs the reality of what was shown. The only people defending this should be people that wrote it on the grounds that they had no say in how NBC's marketing team lied to everyone. The average Joe viewer should have the sense to be angered at the blatant false advertising of it all.

BTW: LOST was awesome and the end was great. Of course some things along the way didn't make sense, but they did wrap it up. I was very satisfied.


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## ADG

dswallow said:


> They didn't say "All will be resolved." They said "All will be revealed."


Please.

I know from reading your posts over the past few years that you're smarter than that.


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## verdugan

nickels said:


> 4: Why did they let some of them go only to have a crazy truck driver try to kill them? What is the point of that?


The guy who got killed was the taxi driver who drove Janet and Joe out of town.


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## jpicard

Pretty Lame!! 
Someone earlier asked how we knew that one guy's head blew up... In the background when the camera pulled away you could see a headless body laying on the ground also. 
Hopefully Tori won't be too stupid and fall in love with anyone and spill the beans on the secrets of the program or her head may just very well blow up. But since season two will never happen we wont get any answers to ANYTHING!! 
Right when eyepatch man said "Welcome to Level 2", I suddenly remembered reading an article last year from a TV critic that said there was supposed to be a new show based on a video game scenario where the characters "sign up" for a true life video game. 
Now that I have watched this it makes sense now that this show was that show that he was talking about. Interesting idea really. I think that the characters know that they are in a video game and are "playing" the role of characters amongst themselves. 
Early in the season when the group drove the van to a white light and ended up in the town again, I think that they actually drove from town #26 to to town #27 (or whatever town number they were in). 
This show belongs on SciFi or USA or something instead of network TV. 

OK, that's all. NBC is finished. I am not going to even consider "The EV3NT" or any other searialized/continuing show on NBC anymore. I'll wait till Netflix offers it sometime in the future.


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## SorenTodd

Finally finished the whole thing; what a colossal pile of suck. The first 3 or 4 episodes were great, then it just went downhill from there.

I'm still going to watch "The Event", but my expectations are much lower now. I suppose that's a good thing; I really don't trust NBC.


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## scooterboy

jpicard said:


> Right when eyepatch man said "Welcome to Level 2", I suddenly remembered reading an article last year from a TV critic that said there was supposed to be a new show based on a video game scenario where the characters "sign up" for a true life video game.
> Now that I have watched this it makes sense now that this show was that show that he was talking about. Interesting idea really. I think that the characters know that they are in a video game and are "playing" the role of characters amongst themselves.


Whatever drugs you're on, you should dial back the dosage a bit.

That made no sense whatsoever.


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## moot

jpicard said:


> Right when eyepatch man said "Welcome to Level 2", I suddenly remembered reading an article last year from a TV critic that said there was supposed to be a new show based on a video game scenario where the characters "sign up" for a true life video game.


Sounds like this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cha$e
Unless you meant a fictionalized show.

I remember watching maybe 2 episodes of Cha$e. It was funny once, second time was just very, very sad. I especially loved when one of the players would be inches away from getting caught by one of the Hunters and they'd activate their invisiblity. The Hunter would have to act all stupid like the person wasn't standing right in front of them.


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## janry

Finally watched the last episode last night.

Which part of "All will be revealed by the end of summer" did I miss?


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## wprager

Was going to watch the last two episodes last night. My guide still had E13 in the 9PM slot and Wheel of Fortune in the preceding slot, but since FutunCritic said E12 would run at 8PM I recorded the full block. Except that the 8PM slot was still Wheel of Fortune, and the 9PM slot was E13. No idea when they aired E12. What a colossally FUBAR'd network.

So now I'm downloading E12, just so I can watch the end of what everyone is saying is a colossal pile of suck. And we'll probably still watch Desperate Housewives when it starts up again. We're gluttons for punishment.


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## jsmeeker

Sounds like it's a local affiliate issue.


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## DancnDude

It's not that it was really all that awful to me. It was just that I thought it was supposed to wrap things up and it came very very far from that. In fact, after seeing the finale I would have liked to see another season to see where they'd go from here.


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## mattack

janry said:


> Finally watched the last episode last night.
> 
> Which part of "All will be revealed by the end of summer" did I miss?


They revealed what was happening/who was behind it. That didn't mean that everyone would be saved or anything.

Jeez, I really liked it.. I don't get all the hate.


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## nickels

mattack said:


> They revealed what was happening/who was behind it. That didn't mean that everyone would be saved or anything.
> 
> Jeez, I really liked it.. I don't get all the hate.


You must have watched a different show then the rest of us.


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## janry

mattack said:


> They revealed what was happening/who was behind it. That didn't mean that everyone would be saved or anything.
> 
> Jeez, I really liked it.. I don't get all the hate.


Well, please enlighten me because I didn't understand what was happening.

Sure, people were being put to some kind of test or contest or something but what exactly and why?


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## Alfer

nickels said:


> You must have watched a different show then the rest of us.


100% this....


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## mattack

janry said:


> Well, please enlighten me because I didn't understand what was happening.
> 
> Sure, people were being put to some kind of test or contest or something but what exactly and why?


Well, my interpretation is that they were being recruited to be members of the group... just like I (and others) hypothesized way back when.

The funny thing is that I liked "Lost" overall way better than this show, but I think this show made FAR more sense than the last episode of Lost. That strung people around for many years.. This one answered a decent amount of things over 13 episodes.


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## janry

mattack said:


> Well, my interpretation is that they were being recruited to be members of the group... just like I (and others) hypothesized way back when.


Recruited? No.

Kidnapped? Yes.

What was missing was more about this "group". Their purpose and how they were able to operate was not really revealed and I think that was a very important point.


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## scooterboy

mattack said:


> Well, my interpretation is that they were being recruited to be members of the group...





janry said:


> What was missing was more about this "group". Their purpose and how they were able to operate was not really revealed and I think that was a very important point.


The people were being kidnapped/recruited to become members of the group, and the group's purpose was to recruit new members.

Crystal clear!


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## jon777

scooterboy said:


> The people were being kidnapped/recruited to become members of the group, and the group's purpose was to recruit new members.
> 
> Crystal clear!


Step 3: Profit!


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## sieglinde

Is this show worth watching until the end?


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## jsmeeker

scooterboy said:


> The people were being kidnapped/recruited to become members of the group, and the group's purpose was to recruit new members.
> 
> Crystal clear!


It's been revealed!


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## janry

scooterboy said:


> The people were being kidnapped/recruited to become members of the group, and the group's purpose was to recruit new members.
> 
> Crystal clear!





jon777 said:


> Step 3: Profit!


Ahhh! A pyramid scheme!


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## janry

sieglinde said:


> Is this show worth watching until the end?


IMO, it depends how much time you've already invested in it. If I had only watched a couple of episodes then found the network was falsely saying "all will be revealed", I'd probably not watch anymore. If I had watched all but a couple of episodes, I'd finish it.


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## Jon J

Groundhog Day for the small screen.


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## pjenkins

sieglinde said:


> Is this show worth watching until the end?


nope


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## photoshopgrl

sieglinde said:


> Is this show worth watching until the end?


If you have nothing better to do. But the acting sucks. The characters don't insight you to care what happens to them. And most of all, you're mostly left with not knowing what the hell it was all for.


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## Alfer

sieglinde said:


> Is this show worth watching until the end?


A *HUGE* no for sure.


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## scsiguy72

I watched the whole thing right up to the last man Standing, then my local affiliate pulled the 2nd part of the final and showed a baseball game.

This show was so bad, I didn't bother going to the web to watch the last Episode


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## TAsunder

It was mediocre, but better than some things of a similar nature. Better than The Prisoner all things considered. It reminded me of the movie Cube but sucked way less. Not that it's a big accomplishment to suck less than that steaming pile of horse dung.


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## moot

TAsunder said:


> It reminded me of the movie Cube but sucked way less. Not that it's a big accomplishment to suck less than that steaming pile of horse dung.


Good analogy! (although I was actually quite fond of Cube).
The first few episodes were like Cube. Lots of "why are we here?" while avoiding the death traps and not getting any real answers.
Then it turned into Cube 2: Hybercube. Lots of answers that try to sound all mind-blowing and amazing but really are just lame.


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## Family

For a show which everyone agrees sucked (and it did)... this thread is still going two weeks after the finale.


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## sieglinde

LOL!!! I have enjoyed the few episodes I have watched so I will keep going. I got up to where the death row woman wakes up and goes ballistic and then calms down and the reporter talks to the creepy grandmother.


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## Alfer

sieglinde said:


> LOL!!! I have enjoyed the few episodes I have watched so I will keep going. I got up to where the death row woman wakes up and goes ballistic and then calms down and the reporter talks to the creepy grandmother.


Have no fear...it just keeps going downhill from there....


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## TampaThunder

Never watched an episode of this when it was broadcast but based on the size of this thread I erroneously assumed it was worth a look see. Downloaded and watched the entire thing this past weekend.

If the people who wrote this garbage have jobs, how is there any unemployment in this country at all?


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## dswallow

TampaThunder said:


> Never watched an episode of this when it was broadcast but based on the size of this thread I erroneously assumed it was worth a look see. Downloaded and watched the entire thing this past weekend.
> 
> If the people who wrote this garbage have jobs, how is there any unemployment in this country at all?


That's a question we've been asking for decades.


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## Ruth

I watched several episodes of this, but it got so horrible that I just couldn't stand it anymore. This weekend I finally gave up and deleted all the unwatched episodes. Then I came here to read about the big reveal. 

After reading through the thread I am glad I didn't try to slog through the remaining episodes!


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## Cainebj

I dunno - I think you all are taking it too seriously.

I enjoyed it for mindless summer dreck. 
It was entertaining enough even though the pay off was a bag of suck...


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## DancnDude

I thought it was entertaining as well. I'm not really upset with what we got, just more that I had in my mind that it would be a "complete" story based on the network marketing. I'm just upset that we didn't see what was really going on in the end. I'd actually like to see more but I know we won't get it.


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## Steveknj

jsmeeker said:


> That's what I want to know, too.
> 
> Morocco. San Francisco. Who knows where else. We don't even know where the town they were in was located. It was made clear that there were multiple towns (we saw this in episode 10 when Renbe and Cat stumbled upon a town in South America)
> 
> *Am I gonna be a sucker for "The Event"? Probably.* I just can't TiVo all of it and have it sit around for weeks and weeks waiting to see if it will stick around. I don't have the space to hold it all, and if it DOES turn out to be worthy, I'll never get around to watching the backlog.


That's exactly what I was thinking....should I waste my time on The Event or not? I'm a sucker for these types of shows, as I am for Ludlum and spy novels.

This show could have been The Prisoner (original variety), instead, it was FlashForward. Such potential after the first ep or 2, and it wound up just as bad. NBC should be sued for false advertising. NONE of the secrets were reveled. It makes the Lost ending seem like they tied EVERYTHING up


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## Steveknj

A few more comments on the finale/series:

1) I thought Janet's family's reaction to her coming home was VERY odd. It seemed like they were expecting her, or perhaps that she had just gone out for some ice cream a couple of hours ago. It was very odd. And I knew her mom was in on it from the first episode where she took Janet's daughter in. But I assumed she was with the Program, and was gung ho. And maybe Janet's daughter was special too.

2) Why do shows have to be criptic about what everything is all about? Lost was the master at this, but at least the characters and plot was compelling enough that it became enjoyable to discuss. 24 was the master of wrapping up a season (and usually starting the next one). You knew what happened and why, and what it all meant for Jack. This was really ridiculous.

3) As most of you know, I'm generally not big on caring about bad continuity, but, I have been to SF a few times, and I don't think you normally go from the airport where the reporters got the cab ACROSS the Golden Gate Bridge to get to downtown SF. The route seemed very odd.

4) Do we have ANY clue why, at THAT time in their lives were these people put in "level 1"? It didn't appear to me that they were all of the same age, or cultivated in any way to prepare for The Program.

5) We have no clear understanding of what the program is, who might have been a part of it, why it started, etc.

6) How did ANY of them get back to hotel to begin level 2. Janet, we assume was taken there by the driver. How did they find the others? Did they volunteer to go back? I got that possibility from Charlie and the other dude (who's name I could never remember).

Overall, this COULD have been a great show, but it wasn't. Why is everyone saying that they would never watch a show like this on *NBC*? Seems like the other bags of suck like this came from ABC (FF, The Nine, Happytown) and Fox. I don't remember another show that NBC did like this.


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## nickels

Steveknj said:


> A few more comments on the finale/series:
> 6) How did ANY of them get back to hotel to begin level 2. Janet, we assume was taken there by the driver. How did they find the others? Did they volunteer to go back? I got that possibility from Charlie and the other dude (who's name I could never remember).


Slow down, let's go back one step farther... How did these people get to all those various places around the world after the van crashed? They had nothing on them, no cash, no ID, nothing. So how did they get out to begin with?

I am also surprised this thread is still going. It proves NBC had a potential hit on their hands and they royal dropped the ball. Hopefully a decade from now they recast, tweak, rewrite, and fix this story. It was so, so close to being a winner, yet so far away. NBC's lack of promotion, time shifting, and not airing an episode on TV didn't help much either.


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## Steveknj

nickels said:


> Slow down, let's go back one step farther... How did these people get to all those various places around the world after the van crashed? They had nothing on them, no cash, no ID, nothing. So how did they get out to begin with?
> 
> I am also surprised this thread is still going. *It proves NBC had a potential hit on their hands and they royal dropped the ball. *Hopefully a decade from now they recast, tweak, rewrite, and fix this story. It was so, so close to being a winner, yet so far away. NBC's lack of promotion, time shifting, and not airing an episode on TV didn't help much either.


That's exactly right. This had so much potential, and the fact that so many of us watched until the end (well at least here), shows that we all had hope this thing could get better.

The point about how they got to all those points on the globe had already been made here, so I didn't think to bring it back up. So, now that they got to all those points, how did they all get back?

I think if the ratings had been there, the finale could have been 2 hours to explain everything. And really, just a few lines of dialogue could have explained it all. There WERE opportunities there. Janet's mother could have explained the whole concept of the program to Janet. At the conference table they could have laid it all out. Even at the hotel at the end, they could have explained to the level 2 folks why they were there and what they accomplished. And yet, they didn't do it at any of those spots. And I think, if the ending had been satisfying, I might have looked back on this and not thought it stunk to high heaven.


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## WhiskeyTango

I agree that this show had great potential. Do you think the writers and others who worked on the show know how bad it actually was or do they think they produced a really good show?


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## TAsunder

WhiskeyTango said:


> I agree that this show had great potential. Do you think the writers and others who worked on the show know how bad it actually was or do they think they produced a really good show?


It was still better than a vast majority of TV shows (i.e. better than crap). Just not as good as the non-crap on TV (which I would guess is, what, 2% of TV shows?)


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## DevdogAZ

WhiskeyTango said:


> I agree that this show had great potential. Do you think the writers and others who worked on the show know how bad it actually was or do they think they produced a really good show?


I always wonder whether the writers actually wrote a much more coherent show and then due to poor acting, directing, editing and limited episodes, the full story just never makes it to the screen. I've got to believe that there was lots of stuff left on the editing room floor that would have helped tell the story a little better if they had an extra episode or two, or an extra ten minutes per episode.


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