# Verizon sells three-state territory, including 1.6 million FiOS users



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

http://arstechnica.com/business/201...e-territory-including-1-6-million-fios-users/

Being a Texas Verizon FIOS customer this bothers me quite a bit. We lover our FIOS and I have never heard anything good about Frontier. Texas is a big state, hopefully, my area isn't included in this sale!



> Verizon is selling off a big chunk of its wireline customer base, and it's not just the old copper wires that are being separated from the mothership. In a $10.54 billion sale announced today, Frontier will take over a three-state territory covering millions of Verizon customers.
> 
> "The operations Frontier will acquire consist of all of Verizons local wireline operating territories in California, Florida and Texas," Verizon's announcement said. "At the end of fourth-quarter 2014, these operations served approximately 3.7 million voice connections; approximately 2.2 million high-speed data customers, including approximately 1.6 million FiOS Internet customers; and approximately 1.2 million FiOS Video customers."
> 
> ...


----------



## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

ALL wireline customers in the three states are included in the sale. Verizon has said they plan to concentrate on expanding FiOS's market share in the contiguous northeastern states they serve.

Nobody in these markets is happy. Frontier has been struggling under the debt burden since they bought Verizon's wireline business in WA and OR. Now they have another $10 billion outlay ahead of them. The sale isn't expected to close for another year, so you have time to research the options.


----------



## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

Not to mention that Frontier copy-protects everything except the local channels. Think TWC.

They're the evil FIOS version of Verizon in that regard.


----------



## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

And to some of the points in the article quoted...

They can't reasonably sell the copper wireline without the fiber as well since they use the same central offices. Unless they want to get into demarcation of the COs it all goes as one chunk.

Honestly, if they could find another chump, I mean buyer, I think they would sell off the northeast customers as well. The current Verizon management team are all from the wireless side of the business and they make WAY more money on wireless than they do on the wired side.

The tower deal is a tax ploy...they sell the towers and then lease them back, converting an asset into a (tax deductible) expense.


----------



## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Welcome to my world. Verizon did the same thing to northern New England, selling off their landline and FiOS business to tiny Fairpoint Communications, back in 2008 or thereabouts. It took them forever to straighten out their billing, and they stopped enhancing the service.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I must say I am concerned about this. Unfortunately my only other option is Bright House which means tuning adapters.


----------



## celtic pride (Nov 8, 2005)

This makes me nervous,I still haven't upgraded to tivo roamio.I hope they dont screw anything up with the fios video side as it been awesome! now i will wait before upgrading my tivo,if frontier screws around with fios and makes it worse or too expensive i will go back to directv ,andd if verizon really pisses me off i''ll switch to AT&T.


----------



## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Well, at least you have FiOS TV. That never made it here. I did get FiOS Internet (and still have it through Fairpoint.)


----------



## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

This is absolutely gut wrenching for me. I was about to move from a Cox home to one with FiOS and this crap happens. I was looking forward to no CCI Byte and no SDV.


----------



## True Colors (Oct 19, 2006)

This is terrible, terrible news. Extremely disturbing. I am a Verizon FIOS customer living in Texas. 

The Verizon pricing is high and their customer service really sucks at times. However, in spite of that, the product itself is truly sensational.

FIOS Tv has never copy restricted a single thing that I have recorded on my Tivo. Not once. This has been quite a luxury for me. It has been so nice knowing that I did not ever have to worry about this. 

What will Frontier do in this regard when they take over these FIOS accounts? Will they start flagging content as "copy once"? Does anybody here know?

TC


----------



## celtic pride (Nov 8, 2005)

I haven't heard anything yet,I certainly hope not.Like most of us here i'll just have to wait and see what happens. I hope it stays the same or gets better,if not i have no problem moving back to directv,although i would really miss no having tivo.


----------



## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

Ugh. FIOS customer in Florida. I've not heard good things about Frontier in the NW. I've been enjoying FIOS since I early adopted it and moved away from Brighthouse. 

I hear people in other parts of the country talking about bandwidth caps imposed by various providers. Is there any possibility that Frontier would (or does) impose them?


----------



## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

True Colors said:


> This is terrible, terrible news. Extremely disturbing. I am a Verizon FIOS customer living in Texas.
> 
> The Verizon pricing is high and their customer service really sucks at times. However, in spite of that, the product itself is truly sensational.
> 
> ...


According to users in the NW, Frontier copy protects everything except locals.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Diana Collins said:


> According to users in the NW, Frontier copy protects everything except locals.


Yes. FiOS people got screwed back when Verizon sold those areas to Frontier in 2009. UNfortunately, the FiOS customers in this current round of sales will probably get screwed too.


----------



## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

TiVotion said:


> Ugh. FIOS customer in Florida. I've not heard good things about Frontier in the NW. I've been enjoying FIOS since I early adopted it and moved away from Brighthouse.
> 
> I hear people in other parts of the country talking about bandwidth caps imposed by various providers. Is there any possibility that Frontier would (or does) impose them?


Frontier does not impose any data caps, and to my knowledge has never sent out a single letter to people that choose to torrent. It seems like they turn a blind eye to it.

Other than the copy-protection stuff, we're extremely happy with Frontier. I have nothing to complain about.


----------



## moedaman (Aug 21, 2012)

I can't believe that Frontier would buy more areas from Verizon, considering how much debt and how many problems Verizon left them. Maybe I'm missing the bigger picture, but it's seems mind-boggling stupid for them to trust that the legacy copper that Verizon left behind is in good shape. Especially since they got screwed before.


----------



## ciscokid (Jan 14, 2003)

In an article published back in January, it was stated that in order for Verizon to merge (sic, "SELL OFF) it's wireless service with the UK's Vodaphone, they'd have to sell off the non-wireless pieces of the business. Apparently, this is EXACTLY what they are doing!


----------



## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

David Platt said:


> Frontier does not impose any data caps, and to my knowledge has never sent out a single letter to people that choose to torrent. It seems like they turn a blind eye to it.
> 
> Other than the copy-protection stuff, we're extremely happy with Frontier. I have nothing to complain about.


That's a relief. Thank you for the info. I could personally live more easily with the copy protection stuff than I could with data caps.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

David Platt said:


> Frontier does not impose any data caps, and to my knowledge has never sent out a single letter to people that choose to torrent. It seems like they turn a blind eye to it.
> 
> Other than the copy-protection stuff, we're extremely happy with Frontier. I have nothing to complain about.


What about the lower internet speeds? FiOS uses symmetrical speeds while I've read that Frontier doesn't come anywhere close to having symmetrical speeds.


----------



## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> What about the lower internet speeds? FiOS uses symmetrical speeds while I've read that Frontier doesn't come anywhere close to having symmetrical speeds.


In their current footprint Frontier offers new customers three options: 30/5, 50/10 and 100/15. However, they did grandfather in any sub with a different tier, but if you want to change anything, you have to pick from the options offered new customers. So, lock in those symmetric tiers now!


----------



## ShayL (Jul 18, 2007)

I'm in the Texas FIOS region. Does Frontier offer the same streaming services like HBO GO, Showtime Anytime, etc.?


----------



## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

Diana Collins said:


> And to some of the points in the article quoted...
> 
> They can't reasonably sell the copper wireline without the fiber as well since they use the same central offices. Unless they want to get into demarcation of the COs it all goes as one chunk.
> 
> ...


Yes, I anticipate Frontier having some financial problems in a few years. I can't believe how lucky AT&T and Verizon are able to dump their high cost, low return, and heavily regulated wireline services upon Frontier who can't seem to get enough of a business the two big and smart telcos don't want any part of anymore and began ditching years ago. The only way to make money with its purchase is for Frontier to (continue) to provide lousy service.


----------



## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Series3Sub said:


> Yes, I anticipate Frontier having some financial problems in a few years. I can't believe how lucky AT&T and Verizon are able to dump their high cost, low return, and heavily regulated wireline services upon Frontier who can't seem to get enough of a business the two big and smart telcos don't want any part of anymore and began ditching years ago. The only way to make money with its purchase is for Frontier to (continue) to provide lousy service.


With all the debt they are going to have, Frontier will probably have to declare bankruptcy within a few years.


----------



## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

tarheelblue32 said:


> With all the debt they are going to have, Frontier will probably have to declare bankruptcy within a few years.


That would be pretty much win/win, as long as it stretches out long enough for the Frontier principals to rake off their take.


----------



## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Wil said:


> That would be pretty much win/win, as long as it stretches out long enough for the Frontier principals to rake off their take.


Yeah it's pretty much the way business works these days. Borrow lots of money to buy a competitor, pay off the top executives with huge bonuses, declare bankruptcy to wipe out the debt used to buy the competitor and pay the bonuses, rinse and repeat. Everyone wins! Except for the debtholders, consumers, and most of the employees.

Charter will probably use the same strategy to buy Time Warner Cable once the Comcast merger falls through.


----------



## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> What about the lower internet speeds? FiOS uses symmetrical speeds while I've read that Frontier doesn't come anywhere close to having symmetrical speeds.





Diana Collins said:


> In their current footprint Frontier offers new customers three options: 30/5, 50/10 and 100/15. However, they did grandfather in any sub with a different tier, but if you want to change anything, you have to pick from the options offered new customers. So, lock in those symmetric tiers now!


Interesting; I wasn't away they had changed the speeds available. I must be grandfathered in on one of the older plans, as I've got 25/25.


----------



## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

David Platt said:


> Interesting; I wasn't away they had changed the speeds available. I must be grandfathered in on one of the older plans, as I've got 25/25.


Well, I've heard conflicting reports about what happens when your contract (if any) expires. Some people say that you then have to choose one of Frontier's tiers, while others say that as long as you don't change your service, you can keep the Verizon tiers indefinitely. It would appear that your experience falls into the latter camp.


----------



## jeremymc7 (Feb 11, 2015)

I'm worried about this one myself. My internet and tv are currently Fios. I can't get any broadcast in my area and cable is WAY more expensive here.


----------



## ciscokid (Jan 14, 2003)

Well, this could be the event that pushes me off the edge and has me cut my cable. With Amazon Prime, Hulu Plus and God knows what else,, it may be worth it to spend the $300 and get an antenna installed in my attic as one of my buddies did and save the $800 bucks a year!


----------



## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

ciscokid said:


> Well, this could be the event that pushes me off the edge and has me cut my cable. With Amazon Prime, Hulu Plus and God knows what else,, it may be worth it to spend the $300 and get an antenna installed in my attic as one of my buddies did and save the $800 bucks a year!


Well, there's also the new streaming "Cable" TV service, SlingTV.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

HarperVision said:


> Well, there's also the new streaming "Cable" TV service, SlingTV.


If someone doesn't mind going back to watchign Live TV for some channels then it could be an option. But I couldn't imagine going back to Live TV.

I've been trying the Sling TV with it's 7 day free trial for the last week. While many things are offered with VOD access or the ability to rewind etc. Not everything is. Which means you have to watch those things live. Even if they paid me $100 a month, I would not go back to watching TV live ever again.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

stevel said:


> Welcome to my world. Verizon did the same thing to northern New England, selling off their landline and FiOS business to tiny Fairpoint Communications, back in 2008 or thereabouts. It took them forever to straighten out their billing, and they stopped enhancing the service.


FairPoint is much better than Frontier. They actually built out RDSLAMs in areas that Verizon never did.

Frontier is the scum of the earth. They screw everything up wherever they go. U-Verse under Frontier is a disaster compared to when AT&T was running it. It used to be rock solid, now it's an unreliable mess, according to several people who have it.

I don't know what Frontier's long term business plan is, as they are losing customers like crazy, and they don't have the money to do the big upgrades that they need to, and even where they have the physical plant to provide top-tier services, like in FIOS areas, they screw it up so badly that cable ends up being better.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Frontier Communications Announces Strategic Relationship With TiVo

http://pr.tivo.com/press-releases/f...ic-relationship-with-tivo-nasdaq-tivo-1177479


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

cherry ghost said:


> Frontier Communications Announces Strategic Relationship With TiVo
> 
> http://pr.tivo.com/press-releases/f...ic-relationship-with-tivo-nasdaq-tivo-1177479


I'll post the same comment I posted in the other thread about this: "Thats nice - maybe they should fix their network problems in the Rochester NY area so that their so called 6Mbps DSL can actually maintain something more than 1Mbps in the evening so that we can actually use it to stream Netflix, Hulu+, Amazon, Vudu, ect to our Roamios.

I actually have a friend that I went to high school with who works for Frontier - who lives in the same town I do - he told me his DSL is so bad that he also has TWC Internet. Really says something when Frontier's employees have to use their competition's service."


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Unless I am missing it, I don't see any mention of support for VOD on retail devices. I am at work though and only skimmed it.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

cherry ghost said:


> Frontier Communications Announces Strategic Relationship With TiVo
> 
> http://pr.tivo.com/press-releases/f...ic-relationship-with-tivo-nasdaq-tivo-1177479


What the heck? OTA? Frontier-TiVo makes sense in the now greatly expanded Frontier FIOS service area, but OTA? Unless they start doing some serious upgrades to their DSL offerings, they aren't going to have enough bandwidth to do an OTA-TiVo-OTT offering outside of Hartford-New Haven, where they compete with OTA via U-Verse IPTV. I'm confused.


----------



## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> Unless I am missing it, I don't see any mention of support for VOD on retail devices. I am at work though and only skimmed it.





> Frontier President and Chief Operating Officer Dan McCarthy noted, "TiVo's latest generation OTA platform enables us to launch a game-changing new service with delivery of the best of broadcast television, seamlessly integrated with over-the-top video, bundled with Frontier's high-speed data service."
> 
> He added, "This is a great opportunity for our customers and a compelling strategic product for Frontier. We believe this is a model for a cost-effective, far-reaching video service of the future and look forward to it becoming a primary TV offer for *our high-speed Internet only customers*."


This is not meant to work on their cable system (though I'm sure they will rent you a cable card) but is targeted at supplying an OTA/OTT solution for their internet only customers.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Diana Collins said:


> This is not meant to work on their cable system (though I'm sure they will rent you a cable card) but is targeted at supplying an OTA/OTT solution for their internet only customers.


It still doesn't make any sense... We'll have to see what they come up with. I would hope that this also means TiVo in their FIOS territory, since that's where it totally makes sense. They will have to figure out how to get the VOD system to work too, since it's not QAM-based.


----------



## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

If they plan to do VOD at all. I read the press release (which was even more vague than usual) as saying this is totally unrelated to FiOS TV. It seems to me to just be a cord cutting option for internet only customers, whether they be FiOS or DSL (assuming the DSL is fast enough for streaming). It may be a trial balloon....if it goes smoothly they might offer TiVos to their FiOS TV customers as well. I don't know if Frontier offers the Arris 6 tuner DVR or not. If they don't, perhaps TiVo is looking to get in there instead. If they do, it would be their largest US MSO partner, wouldn't it?


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Diana Collins said:


> If they plan to do VOD at all. I read the press release (which was even more vague than usual) as saying this is totally unrelated to FiOS TV. It seems to me to just be a cord cutting option for internet only customers, whether they be FiOS or DSL (assuming the DSL is fast enough for streaming). It may be a trial balloon....if it goes smoothly they might offer TiVos to their FiOS TV customers as well. I don't know if Frontier offers the Arris 6 tuner DVR or not. If they don't, perhaps TiVo is looking to get in there instead. If they do, it would be their largest US MSO partner, wouldn't it?


I concur about the wording in their press release, and yet FIOS is the only logical place that TiVo really fits into Frontier's model. And that's just the problem. Frontier isn't going to want FIOS (or U-Verse for that matter) subs to cut the cord, and most of their DSL connections aren't fast enough to stream.

I'm not sure how big the markets are, they may be the biggest partner. Suddenlink and RCN would be the only two that might even come close. It would be a great deal for TiVo. Maybe it would also get TiVo and Frontier to write the software to allow TiVos on U-Verse/Mediaroom, although I doubt AT&T would allow them on to the AT&T U-Verse areas...


----------

