# Doctor Who - Series 2 (BBC) ****EXTREME SPOILERS****



## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

You have been warned. We are not talking Sci-Fi Channel here - this thread is aimed at anyone watching the NEW series being shown on the BBC in the UK at the moment of which there have been two episodes so far..







To give you a final chance to back out, I won't say anything in this post, but let it serve as a warning that it may ruin what is still to come in the US.

There will be no spoiler tags.

Remember, if this does not stop you and you see something you didn't want to, it's your own fault!


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

I just watched the second episode and I have a problem with David Tennant. I don't think he's charismatic enough. At least not yet.

Interesting to see Sarah Jane and K9 in the trailer at the end for next week's episode though - as has been hinted in other threads.

Comments?


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## Bill Reeves (Jul 18, 2002)

I just watched the second episode today, and I liked it. I was not excited about it from the preview, but it was well done.

No problems with Tennant yet. I like the interplay between his Doctor and Rose. The ongoing lines on getting the Queen to say "I am not amused" were funny.

For the preview for the next episode, I knew Sarah Jane and K9 were going to be in it, but for some reason, I got more excited about seeing Giles from Buffy (Anthony Stewart Head) -- in a high school, no less, and it looks like he's the bad guy!


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

I'm glad they are going to introduce K-9 into the new series. I liked that robot dog!

I haven't warmed up to this new Dr. yet. But it's only been 2 episodes.


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

Wow I didn't know Dr. Who was being re-made. I watched the show growing up (we got a lot of british shows like Dr. Who and Supergran).

I can't wait till it hits here!


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## Abulsme (Jun 2, 2001)

The "new Doctor Who" which is really just a continuation of the original series, not a remake (although it has been modernized), is already being shown in the US Friday nights on Sci-Fi. Sci-Fi is currently about half way through showing the episodes that were aired in the UK last year.

The DVD set for those episodes will be out July 4th in the US. It is already available in Canada. (And in the UK, but in the European DVD region.)

Brand new episodes are now airing in the UK every Saturday. It hasn't yet been determined if Sci-Fi will eventually show those as well.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

I've been looking forward to the next episode ever since I saw a snippit of it in the season 2 previews many months ago. I was afraid maybe they'd feel the need to 'modernize' K-9, but he looks like the same old dog. In fact, he looked to be in slightly bad shape, which makes me wonder if it's the same old K-9 from the filming of the original series, recently discovered in a BBC prop crate somewhere...

And it'll be entertaining to see Sarah as well. It's been so long, I can't even remember when/why she (the character) left...

-Ken


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## Brown57 (Oct 21, 2002)

Bill Reeves said:


> For the preview for the next episode, I knew Sarah Jane and K9 were going to be in it, but for some reason, I got more excited about seeing Giles from Buffy (Anthony Stewart Head) -- in a high school, no less, and it looks like he's the bad guy!


I'll be seeing Elizabeth Sladen (Sarah Jane), K9 and Anthony Head on Monday at the mall, not to mention Capt. Janeway:

http://www.collectormania.com/


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## edc (Mar 24, 2002)

kdmorse said:


> I've been looking forward to the next episode ever since I saw a snippit of it in the season 2 previews many months ago. I was afraid maybe they'd feel the need to 'modernize' K-9, but he looks like the same old dog. In fact, he looked to be in slightly bad shape, which makes me wonder if it's the same old K-9 from the filming of the original series, recently discovered in a BBC prop crate somewhere...
> 
> And it'll be entertaining to see Sarah as well. It's been so long, I can't even remember when/why she (the character) left...


(1) Much like the Doctor, within the universe, it *is* the same K-9  Sarah Jane would have no way to do upgrades and repairs, so the poor wee beastie would be subject to age and decay. For the record, no, they did not simply "find the prop." The current filming model reportedly had many of the same difficulties, including bumping into objects and veering to the left!

(2) Four was called to Gallifrey on an emergency, apparently with a message to "leave your human on earth." He obeyed and dropped Sarah Jane off


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

One other thing I've been wanting to mention - but couldn't in any of the other threads...

I'm *extremely* pleased with the way the last season came together, and as a result, have rewatched most of it several times, and enjoyed each episode immensely each time. It's not often that a series comes along that has such high rewatchability. The only episodes I wasn't absolutely thrilled were The Unquiet Dead, and Boom Town. They weren't bad by any means, they just didn't have quite the same entertainment value as the rest.

I was originally a little down on the Long Game, because it wasn't the greatest of standalone episodes. But taken in the context of things to come later in the season, it really set things up nicely, and worked very well.

We'll see if Tennant manages to find he feet, as well as Eccleston did. He may be cursed simply by the fact that the Doctor's just not supposed to look that young...

-Ken


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

Brown57 said:


> I'll be seeing Elizabeth Sladen (Sarah Jane), K9 and Anthony Head on Monday at the mall, not to mention Capt. Janeway:
> 
> http://www.collectormania.com/


Oh my GOD! I never even realized that MIRA FURLAN (French Lady from "Lost") played Delenn on "Babylon 5."

Don't I feel REALLY stupid!!!!!!!!!


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## Bill Reeves (Jul 18, 2002)

atrac said:


> Oh my GOD! I never even realized that MIRA FURLAN (French Lady from "Lost") played Delenn on "Babylon 5."


I didn't see it at all, until my wife watched an episode and said "That's Delenn." She picked up the voice right away. Once you know, it's hard to miss, isn't it?


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## Bill Reeves (Jul 18, 2002)

So, I just saw School Reunion, random thoughts...

Tennant still has some growing to do in the role. I loved the part where he met Sarah Jane, he was acting like a proud papa at his daughter's graduation or something. But sometimes it feels like the series is more about Rose than about the Doctor. They focused a lot on how Rose felt about learning that she is just the latest in a long line of companions.

The scenes where Sarah Jane let the Doctor know how she felt about being abandoned were very good for us continuity geeks. Very well done.

Mickey had a good line when he realized that he was the "tin dog" of the group. So he is travelling with the Doctor now? I bet he doesn't last long, he'll be screaming for home soon enough.

There were some logic gaps in the story (does Sarah Jane always take her broken-down K9 in her car everywhere?), but it was more about the characters than the story.

And I loved, loved, loved seeing Giles as a headmaster who occasionally eats a student.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Seeing "Giles" in high school was very interesting, even if it was in an opposite role. 

Since it has been a "few" years, I recognized Elizabeth Sladen but not from where. Then when her name was mentioned, I hit myself upside the head and said 'duh". I was spoiler free for this episode. 

Wasn't the last scene of Sarah Jane walking with K-9 a flashback to when she left the Doctor before? Which then started her own short lived series with K-9.

This new series is growing on me. Can't set an SP for it, so I just download the episode on Sunday, burn a DVD and enjoy the show.


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## Bill Reeves (Jul 18, 2002)

JimSpence said:


> Wasn't the last scene of Sarah Jane walking with K-9 a flashback to when she left the Doctor before? Which then started her own short lived series with K-9.


If I recall correctly...

When Sarah Jane left, K-9 was not part of the TARDIS crew. He joined in "The Invisible Enemy" when the Doctor was travelling with Leela. The first K-9 stayed on Gallifrey with Leela, and the Doctor brought out a second one.

The second one stayed with Romana in E-space, and the final scene of Romana and K-9 walking away in a garden in "Warrior's Gate" was very similar to the scene of Sarah Jane and K-9 walking away in a garden from "School Reunion." That may be the flashback you were thinking of.

I never saw "K-9 and Company" but my understanding is that the Doctor sent a K-9 unit to Sarah Jane a few years after he dropped her off on Earth (maybe as an apology for abandoning her?).


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## Abulsme (Jun 2, 2001)

Bill Reeves said:


> If I recall correctly...
> 
> When Sarah Jane left, K-9 was not part of the TARDIS crew. He joined in "The Invisible Enemy" when the Doctor was travelling with Leela. The first K-9 stayed on Gallifrey with Leela, and the Doctor brought out a second one.
> 
> ...


That is correct in terms of the history of the K-9's. There is more information at Wikipedia.

In terms of the scene where SJS leaves, even though K-9 was not there, it is still somewhat reminiscent of the scene where Sara leaves in "Hand of Fear". Not quite the same, but it was definately meant to resonate for those who remember the earlier episode.


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## Pralix (Dec 8, 2001)

I wonder when they will do one of those Doctor reunion shows like, The Three Doctors, The Five Doctors and The Two Doctors.


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## edc (Mar 24, 2002)

Pralix said:


> I wonder when they will do one of those Doctor reunion shows like, The Three Doctors, The Five Doctors and The Two Doctors.


No real reason for them to consider it anytime soon.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Thanks for the K-9 history. I'd forgotten a lot and didn't want to do the research. I knew you guys would put things in order.


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## esperantisto (Nov 3, 2001)

Love Sarah Jane!


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

I really enjoyed this episode. Very well done.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Just watched episode #4 "The Girl in the Fireplace" of the 2006 season.

Quite good. 'Nough said.


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## edc (Mar 24, 2002)

JimSpence said:


> Just watched episode #4 "The Girl in the Firep[lace" of the 2006 season.
> 
> Quite good. 'Nough said.


Steven Moffat is absolutely brilliant. I hope he writes at least one story every season.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Just watched it, very well done.

Looking forward to next week!


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

On a side note, UK says UFO's caused by natural forces.

Of course they would, wouldn't they? And let Torchwood out of the bag?


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## Bill Reeves (Jul 18, 2002)

edc said:


> Steven Moffat is absolutely brilliant. I hope he writes at least one story every season.


I've only watched the first half of "The Girl in the Fireplace" so far but, given that he also wrote "The Empty Child" which was on Sci-Fi last week, yeah, he's brilliant. I hope he writes more.


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

Mickey is already getting on my nerves.

He needs to run into a Space Mountain Lion Mechadroid.


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## edc (Mar 24, 2002)

Bill Reeves said:


> I've only watched the first half of "The Girl in the Fireplace" so far but, given that he also wrote "The Empty Child" which was on Sci-Fi last week, yeah, he's brilliant. I hope he writes more.


If you've never watched it, check out the original "Coupling," a comedy created and written completely by Moffat. Every episode includes lots and lots of seemingly unrelated pieces that fall together in brilliant, and completely unexpected ways.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

I just finished watching The Girl In The Fireplace (going into work late).

Very well done. However, a major flaw in the plan. Not sure if I should spoilerize, so I will to be safe...



Spoiler



If the ship was the SS Madame De Pompedour and the picture had the dates of her birth and death (1721 - 1764), then surely they should have known that they couldn't kill her before then?


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## RoundBoy (Feb 10, 2005)

They needed to repair the ship.. at all costs.... flaw in the programming.


Surely they didn't need to kill the crew to repair the ship to get the crew home too, huh?


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

No need to spoilerize, The OP warns readers of the open spoilerage.

Guindalf - If I could could back in time and mess around with history (providing it doesn't affect mine), Just because you have a piece of paper stating that x did y on z, doesn't mean that I could not change it, it means that I haven't changed it *yet*. As soon as I had made the change the paper and your memory would have altered to reflect to the new result because as far as you know, the new result would have been how it always had been (unless I wrote the note possibly).

On another note, My wife made a remark about a coincidence between BBC Wales' two time travel dramas - *Doctor Who* - 2nd Lead character = Rose Tyler, *Life On Mars* - Main Character = Sam Tyler.


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## myriadian (Sep 20, 2002)

edc said:


> If you've never watched it, check out the original "Coupling," a comedy created and written completely by Moffat. Every episode includes lots and lots of seemingly unrelated pieces that fall together in brilliant, and completely unexpected ways.


oh wow, he did? i LOVED coupling when i could get it on bbca, very very funny 

M.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

Currently watching the new episode Rise of the Cybermen, but it's hard to look at Roger LLoyd Pack as anything but Trigger from Only Fools & Horses!!!!!!


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

Two noticable mentions of Torchwood Industries during this latest episode. Can't wait for the conclusion!


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Getting real tired of Micky's attitude, he sounds like a whining baby. I think the Doc should take Ricky and leave Micky.


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

Langree said:


> Getting real tired of Micky's attitude, he sounds like a whining baby. I think the Doc should take Ricky and leave Micky.


I'm thinking Ricky dies and Micky stays.


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## Bill Reeves (Jul 18, 2002)

Langree said:


> Getting real tired of Micky's attitude, he sounds like a whining baby. I think the Doc should take Ricky and leave Micky.


I dunno, Ricky's attempt at being a badass by scowling all the time was not very effective. Mickey had some good points early on when he showed how the Doctor basically didn't care at all about him.

I also thought the main bad guy was overacting as well. But the tromp, tromp, tromp of the Cybermen was worth any amount of overacting. 

Edit to add: who else thinks we're going to see altnera-Jackie die in a horrible way?


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

Was the Christopher Eccleston's Insistence that Mickey was Ricky really just to wind him up, or had he been in that specific Parallel universe & time period before?

I don't think that "alterna" Jackie will die, but will lose her riches and return to the poor Jackie that she is in our(?) dimension, Showing Rose that money doesn't make the man. I believe that Pete will die to save Rose after he learns of his "relationship" to her.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

Well, the Ricky/Mickey situation is well and truely sorted out now!


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Guindalf said:


> Well, the Ricky/Mickey situation is well and truely sorted out now!


 I liked it!


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

Well. I was completely wrong about the entire alterna Jackie & Pete thing.


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

Sherminator said:


> Well. I was completely wrong about the entire alterna Jackie & Pete thing.


Looks like I was completely right with my prediction.

Not that we're keeping score or anything


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

Well, not completely, but very close.

Leaving him behind at least means they can bring him back later, but also having the perfect excuse to not use him again.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Guindalf said:


> Well, not completely, but very close.
> 
> Leaving him behind at least means they can bring him back later, but also having the perfect excuse to not use him again.


The Doctor made pretty clear they can't go back, at least by choice.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

Langree said:


> The Doctor made pretty clear they can't go back, at least by choice.


Exactly. So they don't have to bring him back unless the writers want to arrange another "accident"!


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

I loved the "Watch With Mother" & the "Coronation Street" reference.

Also the Star Trek TOS "Charlie X" reference was cool too.


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## Pralix (Dec 8, 2001)

It looks like the tardis guidance system is acting up again. For awhile I was wondering if the boy was going to be a new companion.


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

The TARDIS, being a living entity, has always diverted the Doctor to an area of trouble close to the space & time that he was originally headed for.

Also, anybody notice the similarities between this episode & a Sapphire & Steel story? (Assignment Four: The Man without a Face).


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## Bill Reeves (Jul 18, 2002)

Sherminator said:


> Also, anybody notice the similarities between this episode & a Sapphire & Steel story? (Assignment Four: The Man without a Face).


Ooh, Sapphire & Steel. Haven't thought about that for a while, I'll have to break out the videotapes from back when KTEH (San Jose PBS station) showed it on their Sunday Science Fiction night. I did not catch the similarity but I only have a vague recollection of the S&S story.

I enjoyed "The Idiot's Lantern" but thought it was kind a copout that, despite the Wire saying "Hungry Hungry" it didn't actually eat the faces that it sucked in to the TVs. You knew as soon as Rose showed up with no face that everyone was going to get restored. Still, one of the better episodes this season -- a good mix of period drama with cheesy SF.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

Having spent part of my early childhood running around Alexandra Palace, it was funny to see it again in this show. Especially with Maureen Lipman as The Wire!

I thought it was one of the cheesier episodes, but it had some good effects. Looking forward to tomorrow night and getting the next one.


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## Rombaldi (Aug 17, 2002)

Some well founded speculation of 'things to come'...

- Pete Tyler WILL be back, WHICH Pete Tyler is not really known

- Mickey MAY be back (see #1)

- Dalek's and Cybermen and Gelth, Oh My!


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

I've watched Season "2" all the way through to Idiot's Lantern and I'm finding that I liked Eccleston much better than Tennant. Tennant is a little too happy-go-lucky for my tastes; I really liked Eccleston's angsty Doctor. And Eccleston's chemistry with Billie Piper was off the charts.

(And, I was a Whovian back in the Tom Baker days [saw almost all of his Eps, plus some Pertwee and some Davison], so it's not a case of me just liking Eccleston because he was my first).


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

busyba said:


> I've watched Season "2" all the way through to Idiot's Lantern and I'm finding that I liked Eccleston much better than Tennant. Tennant is a little too happy-go-lucky for my tastes; I really liked Eccleston's angsty Doctor. And Eccleston's chemistry with Billie Piper was off the charts.
> 
> (And, I was a Whovian back in the Tom Baker days [saw almost all of his Eps, plus some Pertwee and some Davison], so it's not a case of me just liking Eccleston because he was my first).


I don't think any Doctor Who "fan" would disagree with you. Unfortunately, Chris "Lot's of planets have a North" Eccleston didn't want to do any more than the one series (as I'm sure you know).

At least Tennant is not totally obnoxious like Silvester McCoy was!


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

Eccleston's Doctor was angst ridden because, as far as he knows, he had recently destroyed his entire race and saw no hope for life.

By the time of his regeneration, he had become re-acquainted with the joy of humanity and the need for him as their guardian angel, that joy of life has been integrated into his new persona as Tennant's Doctor.

BTW, Tennant can play dark characters, as shown on "Secret Smile" on BBCA Memorial Day.

I am a major Who fan, watching it for as long as I can remember, Taping it on UK Gold whilst I was still in the UK, and every regeneration brings a different personality to the character.

I feel that Tennant is in no way near the worst Doctor that there ever has been, Colin Baker is #1 on my list as the worst, Patrick Troughton being #2, both being too self centered. Silvester McCoy was a vast improvement on CB as he didn't know it all, & many times had to rely on Ace to save the day, IMO he was on the verge of bringing the show back to its roots, despite Michael Grade's attempt to make people thankful that the show was cancelled.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Sherminator said:


> Eccleston's Doctor was angst ridden because, as far as he knows, he had recently destroyed his entire race and saw no hope for life.
> 
> By the time of his regeneration, he had become re-acquainted with the joy of humanity and the need for him as their guardian angel, that joy of life has been integrated into his new persona as Tennant's Doctor.


I'm not disputing the reasoning behind the choices in the characterizations, they make perfect sense. And I agree that Tennant is a fine and capable actor.

I just liked Eccleston's characterization better, and the nature of that particular character in that particular stage of his life. The transition to Tennant works as far as the overall story arc is concerned, but I wish we could have had more than just one season of #9.


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## Bill Reeves (Jul 18, 2002)

I just watched "The Impossible Planet"... wow. That was some creepy, creepy **** right there. I always have a hard time with scifi-occult crossovers, like that movie "Event Horizon," and I even got a little uncomfortable watching the 3rd Doctor story "The Daemons," but this episode just creeped the hell out of me. Very effective.


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

TARDIS lost? Check.
Trapped on a planetoid circling a black hole? Check.
Satan awoken? Check.
Surrounded by army of obedient Satan worshippers with killer white ball of light? Check.

This one should be easy to get out of


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Of all people, the Doctor should be the first to know that if you come across a large circular seal, embedded in the ground, covered with ancient symbols so old noone can read them, it contains only one thing - unspeakable evil. No unlimited power sources, no fluffy bunnies, no exceptions - unspeakable evil only.

And quite frankly, that's the only thing you're going to find buried deep on a dead planet in an impossible orbit circling a black hole these days. A planet like that just has trapped ancient evil written all over it. 

-Ken


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

kdmorse said:


> Of all people, the Doctor should be the first to know that if you come across a large circular seal, embedded in the ground, covered with ancient symbols so old noone can read them, it contains only one thing - unspeakable evil. No unlimited power sources, no fluffy bunnies, no exceptions - unspeakable evil only.
> 
> And quite frankly, that's the only thing you're going to find buried deep on a dead planet in an impossible orbit circling a black hole these days. A planet like that just has trapped ancient evil written all over it.
> 
> -Ken


Don't confuse the Doctor with Buffy the Vampire Slayer


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

jschuur said:


> TARDIS lost? Check.
> Trapped on a planetoid circling a black hole? Check.
> Satan awoken? Check.
> Surrounded by army of obedient Satan worshippers with killer white ball of light? Check.
> ...


Well, a couple of the previous Doctors carried a Tardis Recall Device.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

"Well, if you think there's trouble, we could always go back inside and go somewhere else." 

And yeah, that episode just screamed "Event Horizon".


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

Wonderful episode! I just finished watching. Can't wait for the conclusion.

Many of you would have missed a comment made by the Doctor when going toward the "trap door". He was making obvious comments about the movies when they say "see ya later" and you know something bad is going to happen to them. One analagy he drew was "This is going to be the best Christmas Walford has ever seen". This is a reference to Eastenders, one of the two main soaps in the UK (completely different to American soaps - much more realistic and shown in prime time). The area of London that the show is set in is Walford and there are always huge plot lines at Christmas.

Great story and well executed. For me, I thought it was the best episode so far - as long as they don't get silly with the solution next week.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Neat... I was wondering what that line meant; I figured it was some kind of damn dirty limey reference.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

BTW, I think it wasn't until this episode that I noticed that this particular regeneration's"catchphrase" of sorts seems to be "I'm sorry. I'm so sorry". Off the top of my head I recally him saying it to the plage person in 'New Earth', a Cyberman or two and now the cutie redshirt floating in space. Anybody recall any other instances?


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

OK, I just watched The Satan Pit and all I can say is WOW!

That was one of the best science fiction stories I have ever seen on film. It had atmosphere, suspense and most of all, intelligence. Well, in a SciFi way 

I loved it. The Doctor's reasoning and Rose taking charge and thinking it out between them was masterful. Of course, you KNOW they're going to survive, but it's the HOW they're going to survive that makes it interesting. Great TV.


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## rhuntington3 (May 1, 2001)

Guindalf said:


> OK, I just watched The Satan Pit and all I can say is WOW!
> 
> That was one of the best science fiction stories I have ever seen on film. It had atmosphere, suspense and most of all, intelligence. Well, in a SciFi way
> 
> I loved it. The Doctor's reasoning and Rose taking charge and thinking it out between them was masterful. Of course, you KNOW they're going to survive, but it's the HOW they're going to survive that makes it interesting. Great TV.


Yeah, I liked this one a lot! :up:


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

busyba said:


> And Eccleston's chemistry with Billie Piper was off the charts.


That may be, but I think Billie Piper's chemistry with David Tennant is an improvement--she's warmer and more open than she was with Eccleston. It's strange, I didn't notice anything about her with Eccleston the first time through, but rewatching Season 1 while watching Season 2, I see that she was much more reserved with Eccleston than she is with Tennant.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

That's probably because in the second season, she's much more of a companion than a passenger. Also, Eccleston has the stronger personality over Tennant and the interaction wasn't so important.

There seems to be an underlying love affair going on too - much more than any Doctor/Companion relationship I can remember in the past (except maybe K9  )


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## ArcticZ (May 23, 2004)

I hope this hasen't been posted before, i just read about it today about Rose on the season 2 ending.



Spoiler



I guess that Rose is leaving Dr who at the end of season 2.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/news/cult/news/drwho/2006/06/15/32946.shtml

I really like her on doctor who, I wonder who there going to replace her with. 
I just thought i'd just pass that along.


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## cheerdude (Feb 27, 2001)

Still haven't watched any of Season 2 yet...

Is the Christmas Invasion necessary before watching S2 ?


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

cheerdude said:


> Still haven't watched any of Season 2 yet...
> 
> Is the Christmas Invasion necessary before watching S2 ?


It's not 100% necessary, but it's an important "Getting to know the new Doctor" episode. Plus, it hints at the power of Torchwood. It also changes the Doctor's relationship with the modern-day British government, which will probably be hit upon in future episodes.

It would be a real shame if the SciFi channel were to pick up Season 2, but neglected to show this episode.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

I'm pretty new to Doctor Who (it used to scare the bejesus out of me as a kid), so my questions like the following are just random thoughts...

Has the doctor ever run into a previous regeneration of himself? Either intentionally or accidentally? I know in Eccleson's season, he ran into the current version of himself. The old Doctor wouldn't necessarily know that the new Doctor is him.


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## cheerdude (Feb 27, 2001)

Mike,

Yep - There have been 3 (as far I am aware) instances of this occuring; The Five Doctors, The Three Doctors, and The Two Doctors were episodes during the series. I believe that The Five Doctors was for its 20th anniversary ... can't remember if the other two shows were on anniversary dates or not.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Mike Farrington said:


> Has the doctor ever run into a previous regeneration of himself? Either intentionally or accidentally?


It's forbidden, but in extreme cases (or during sweeps weeks) exceptions can be made. 

There have been several episodes where they got a number of the past doctors to join the current one on an adventure. They typically have titles like "The Two Doctors", "The Three Doctors", or "The Five Doctors". Creative, no?


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

busyba said:


> It's forbidden, but in extreme cases (*or during sweeps weeks)* exceptions can be made.
> 
> There have been several episodes where they got a number of the past doctors to join the current one on an adventure. They typically have titles like "The Two Doctors", "The Three Doctors", or "The Five Doctors". Creative, no?


No such thing in the UK. "Specials" usually appear around public holidays like Christmas, Easter, etc. There is no period of sweeps like here, especially when you consider that the BBC has no commercials.


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## Bill Reeves (Jul 18, 2002)

cheerdude said:


> Mike,
> 
> Yep - There have been 3 (as far I am aware) instances of this occuring; The Five Doctors, The Three Doctors, and The Two Doctors were episodes during the series. I believe that The Five Doctors was for its 20th anniversary ... can't remember if the other two shows were on anniversary dates or not.


The Three Doctors was done for the 10th anniversary. The Two Doctors took place during the 22nd season, and was not done for any special occasion that I am aware of.


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## doom1701 (May 15, 2001)

Mike Farrington said:


> It's not 100% necessary, but it's an important "Getting to know the new Doctor" episode. Plus, it hints at the power of Torchwood. It also changes the Doctor's relationship with the modern-day British government, which will probably be hit upon in future episodes.
> 
> It would be a real shame if the SciFi channel were to pick up Season 2, but neglected to show this episode.


I haven't seen any S2 beyond Christmas, but I would think it would be just about required viewing. It establishes some of the quirks of the new Doctor, and it sets up (like Mike said) the new "view" of the British government.

And you can't miss the best line (repeated) of the episode:

"Harriet Jones, Prime Minister" (whipping out ID card)
"Yes, we know who you are."


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

I see from the preview that one of the guest stars in next week's episode is Marc Warren (Danny Blue from Hustle).


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

cheerdude said:


> Mike,
> 
> Yep - There have been 3 (as far I am aware) instances of this occuring; The Five Doctors, The Three Doctors, and The Two Doctors were episodes during the series. I believe that The Five Doctors was for its 20th anniversary ... can't remember if the other two shows were on anniversary dates or not.


Don't forget the Valeyard, who was the "last" Doctor regeneration (or more specifically the Doctor between his next to last and last regeneration). He was in the trial of the Colin Baker Doctor in 1986.


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## Bill Reeves (Jul 18, 2002)

I just finished watching "Love & Monsters" and it was... unique. Parts of it were very funny, but some of the images will not be leaving my head any time soon, no matter how much I might want them to.

Edit to add -- after many hours, I finally figured out where I had seen the actress who played Ursula before. She was Moaning Myrtle in the Harry Potter movies.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Yes "Love & Monsters" was unique. Enough so, that I didn't think I was watching Doctor Who. Not high on my list of good episodes.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Bill Reeves said:


> Edit to add -- after many hours, I finally figured out where I had seen the actress who played Ursula before. She was Moaning Myrtle in the Harry Potter movies.


IMDB is your friend.

Shirley Henderson.


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

Bill Reeves said:


> I just finished watching "Love & Monsters" and it was... unique. Parts of it were very funny, but some of the images will not be leaving my head any time soon, no matter how much I might want them to.
> 
> Edit to add -- after many hours, I finally figured out where I had seen the actress who played Ursula before. She was Moaning Myrtle in the Harry Potter movies.


I've just editted my post in Outpost Gallifrey to with virtually the same words.


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## Bill Reeves (Jul 18, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> IMDB is your friend.
> 
> Shirley Henderson.


I thought the name sounded familiar when I saw it in the credits, but I didn't put 2+2 together until several hours later. It was pretty obvious though, now that I think about it -- she looked very similar, and her voice was exactly the same as in the HP movies.


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## edc (Mar 24, 2002)

JimSpence said:


> Yes "Love & Monsters" was unique. Enough so, that I didn't think I was watching Doctor Who. Not high on my list of good episodes.


For better or worse, such "double booking" is set to become an annual occasion. The BBC gave them an extra episode (the Christmas special), but no more time in the schedule to film it.


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## Samster (Jun 22, 2006)

So I guess you guys have heard that Billie Piper (Rose) is leaving?


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## Pralix (Dec 8, 2001)

Creepy episode. Kind of a Simon (kids chalk drawing animiated show) come to life or vice versa. 


The previews for next weeks episode looks awesome. Can't wait


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## Rombaldi (Aug 17, 2002)

Preview for episodes 12&13 ("Army of Ghosts"/"Doomsday")

SWEET JEBUS! Don't look if you don't want to be spoiled... this is mind-boggling...


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## RoundBoy (Feb 10, 2005)

Zoinks!

The


Spoiler



cybermen


 are back too! And it looks as though the doctor is going to take on


Spoiler



torchwood


 head on!


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## TravisKU (Nov 26, 2001)

Does anyone know where I can get the Doctor Who theme as my ringtone in the US.
According to the BBC website, "the official" one is only available in the UK.

Travis


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

Double Zoiks!

It's a Dalek/Cybermen twofer!

(It did say 'Extreme spoilers' in the thread title after all.)

I skipped watching the previews for the next one, but I'm not convinced we'll see Rose 'die' for good, even if she is leaving the show. She'd hardly be narrating the episode if she were dead (and it looks like there are no 'ghosts' after all). We've seen a Dalek 'kill' Rose before and she came back.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Oh my..... Didn't see that coming.

I did watch the previews, and there's nothing overly spoilery in them. (ie - nothing about rose, where the Dalek's came from, etc...) It is interresting that the lead Dalek to pop out of the sphere is Black, which may signify something about their origins. (In the past, different factions of Daleks have been different colors), or it may just be a new paint-job for the group's leader.

A D*mn, D*mn, D*mn! - I'm going to be heading out on vacation next Saturday - with absolutly no means of seeing the conclusion. Is it wrong that the idea of postponing my vacation has crossed my mind? 

-Ken


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

jschuur said:


> I skipped watching the previews for the next one, but I'm not convinced we'll see Rose 'die' for good, even if she is leaving the show.


I didn't watch the previews either but I agree.

I think her 'death' is a profound sense of loss. I think her mother will die, perhaps Mickey, she will be separated from the Doctor and that separation will not be a time of hearts and roses. Perhaps she will have to face up to truly being the 'Bad Wolf', the carrier of her own curse.

(of the predictions I have made, the one that I reckon then one has had the best clues in the build up is the death of Jackie Tyler)


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

Guindalf said:


> Currently watching the new episode Rise of the Cybermen, but it's hard to look at Roger LLoyd Pack as anything but Trigger from Only Fools & Horses!!!!!!


Just noticed this post. Don't forget the in joke.

On the real earth Rose is shocked to find that her father was not a successful businessman but a "Del Boy", named after the unsuccessful lead Only Fools & Horses character. To underline the Only Fools & Horses connection a street sign glimpsed in the episode showed the area was SE15 - Peckham, the location of Only Fools & Horses.










How appropriate that on the alternative earth Rose's father instead of be a 'Del Boy' should be a truly successful business man, and that 'Trigger' should be even more successful and his boss (in Only Fools & Horses Trigger is extremely mentally challenged).


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## RoundBoy (Feb 10, 2005)

I enjoyed "Love & Monsters".. it was a different type of episode, but i thought it was very well done... a look at the 'other side' of the doctor's adventures.. its not always happy happy.

I was very suprised by the ghost army episode ending ... but then again.. i didn't read the spoilers ... i knew about the cybermen... but daleks!

ZOINKS!


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

Who would win if the Cybermen were versus the Daleks? Is an old Brit school yard argument finally going to be resolved? Will the professionalism of Torchwood rise about its neo-fascism?


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

kdmorse said:


> A D*mn, D*mn, D*mn! - I'm going to be heading out on vacation next Saturday - with absolutly no means of seeing the conclusion. Is it wrong that the idea of postponing my vacation has crossed my mind?
> 
> -Ken


Bit Torrent is your friend.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

JimSpence said:


> Bit Torrent is your friend.


Not at 28.8 it isn't 

I mean, I could try... but... yuck...

-Ken


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## MMG (Dec 11, 1999)

How do you watch series 2 otherwise?


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

A giant dish pointed at the Satellites orbitting over Europe, like Will Shatner is rumored to use perhaps?


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

A friendly Brit with something such as a Slingbox or the considerably cheaper www.orb.com would be easier (although the 28.8 would still be a problem).


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

It has occurred to me that I might be able to pull it off using my cellphone as a bluetooth<->EVDO router and run BitTorrent over that on my laptop. I'm not entirely sure what that would do to my phone bill though. (Seriously - no idea how I get charged for such things), and it would require EVDO Data service on the towers where I'm heading. I could also start it downloading remotely, and try to fetch it somehow.

Exceptionally Silly? Yes... But damnit - I don't know if I can wait a whole additional week!

-Ken


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## Jeff Taraldson (Aug 14, 2003)

At the end of the show, the BBC announcer said it was the series finally. In the US "series finally" usually means the demise of the show. I wonder if it's that same in the UK?


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Jeff Taraldson said:


> At the end of the show, the BBC announcer said it was the series finally. In the US "series finally" usually means the demise of the show. I wonder if it's that same in the UK?


Nope, in the UK "Series" = "Season" in the US, this is Series 28 of Doctor Who in it's totality, tho Series 2 of the new Doctor Who.


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## TomK (May 22, 2001)

Don't worry, I believe they are already filming the shows for the next 'season'. I do love this show.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Jeff Taraldson said:


> At the end of the show, the BBC announcer said it was the series finally. In the US "series finally" usually means the demise of the show. I wonder if it's that same in the UK?


"Finalé" or "finale," by the way...

And yes, the new series is underway.

Did it strike anybody else at the end of Ep 12 that if this had been America television, THAT would have been the season finalé?


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Did it strike anybody else at the end of Ep 12 that if this had been America television, THAT would have been the season finalé?


Shush! Don't be giving the British any crazy cliffhanger ideas!


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

One of the informal rules of Brit television when children are in the audience is that you do not leave them with a 'season' finale with unresolved nasty things happening to the the good guys.


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

kdmorse said:


> It has occurred to me that I might be able to pull it off using my cellphone as a bluetooth<->EVDO router and run BitTorrent over that on my laptop. I'm not entirely sure what that would do to my phone bill though. (Seriously - no idea how I get charged for such things), and it would require EVDO Data service on the towers where I'm heading. I could also start it downloading remotely, and try to fetch it somehow.
> 
> Exceptionally Silly? Yes... But damnit - I don't know if I can wait a whole additional week!
> 
> -Ken





Spoiler



you might want to put off using BT earsets tho'


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## Rombaldi (Aug 17, 2002)

(follow link for pictures and more)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/news/companion.shtml

29 June 2006

*Meet Martha: New companion is revealed.*

Newcomer Freema Agyeman will play the Doctor's latest companion, Martha Jones.

Doctor Who fans have already met Agyeman as Adeola in episode 12 of the current series of Doctor Who but, as viewers will have seen last Saturday evening, this character suffered a terrible fate at the hands of the Cybermen.

Freema will be playing a brand new character in series three.

(snip)

"Martha won't be featured in this year's Christmas special; we've got another surprise in store for that."

(more)


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

So much for Madame de Pompadour coming back as the next companion somehow 

And grrr... What's up with the 'as viewers will have seen last Saturday evening' reference in an article from June 29th? Part 1 hadn't even aired yet, much less the conclusion episode due for next weekend.

Guess I can't complain if it says 'Extreme spoilers', can I?


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

Last I heard Sophia Myles [Madame de Pompadour] is dating David Tennant [Doctor Who], perhaps they would not want to go to work together as well.


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## Pralix (Dec 8, 2001)

pgogborn said:


> Last I heard Sophia Myles [Madame de Pompadour] is dating David Tennant [Doctor Who], perhaps they would not want to go to work together as well.


Not like that hasn't happened in the history of the show.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Pralix said:


> Not like that hasn't happened in the history of the show.


I would guess that with her film career's current trajectory, it's pretty unlikely she'd want to tie herself down to a supporting role on a TV show...I thought when she did her guest appearance it was probably because she was a childhood fan, but maybe it was a favor to the boyfriend..?


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## Pralix (Dec 8, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I would guess that with her film career's current trajectory, it's pretty unlikely she'd want to tie herself down to a supporting role on a TV show...I thought when she did her guest appearance it was probably because she was a childhood fan, but maybe it was a favor to the boyfriend..?


Has she worked in other RTD shows? RTD seems to pull actors from other shows he writes or has written into Doctor Who.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

I don't know of a previous RTD Sophia Myles connection, but there is a RTD precedent for David Tennant's crashing through a window and involvement with a white horse - in the RTD version of Casanova >


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## Rombaldi (Aug 17, 2002)

Pralix said:


> Has she worked in other RTD shows? RTD seems to pull actors from other shows he writes or has written into Doctor Who.


Well, two crossovers in the 2nd series...

Shaun Parkes, Rocco in Casanova was Zachary (acthing Captain) in _The Impossible Planet_ and _The Satan Pit_

Nina Sosanya, Bellino in Casanova was Trish (the mother) in _Fear Her_


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

All is well with the world - BitTorrent over Cell Phone (via BlueTooth) has been tested and works acceptably. 

-Ken


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## purple6816 (May 27, 2003)

kdmorse said:


> All is well with the world - BitTorrent over Cell Phone (via BlueTooth) has been tested and works acceptably.
> 
> -Ken


There is no way I am going to waste time watching a good show on a 2 in screen when I can watch it on a 60" HDTV Dolby Direct sound system.

Lets not be stupid here. Even knowing Geeky is good. But, come on.


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

purple6816 said:


> There is no way I am going to waste time watching a good show on a 2 in screen when I can watch it on a 60" HDTV Dolby Direct sound system.
> 
> Lets not be stupid here. Even knowing Geeky is good. But, come on.


He's not talking about viewing it on the cellphone, but using the Cellphone as a broadband modem.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

Catherine "Am I bothered? Are you disrespecting my family?" Tate is a runaway bride? 

The Christmas episode is going to be scary.


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## cthomp (Dec 24, 2001)

Why wasn't the TARDIS pulled in?


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

cthomp said:


> Why wasn't the TARDIS pulled in?


Also, what of the CyberMen who were created? They didn't cross the void. They would have been left behind and been able to wage quite the war.


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## jeremy3721 (Feb 16, 2002)

Awesome episode.


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## bustergonad (Jul 15, 2001)

Just a great season overall. It's going to be odd not seeing Rose as The Doctor's companion next season. I really thought Rose would use the power of the Tardis again to battle the Cybermen and Daleks and that would bring about her demise. 
Only 6 months till the Christmas special.

Roy


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

bustergonad said:


> Only 6 months till the Christmas special.


Yeah, dang it!


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## nhaigh (Jul 16, 2001)

Mike Farrington said:


> Also, what of the CyberMen who were created? They didn't cross the void. They would have been left behind and been able to wage quite the war.


I suspect that was deliberate - as was the:


Spoiler



Darlek who stepped out of time


 I don't expect we'll never see either again in the future.


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

The brains of the newly converted didn't cross the void, but where did the exoskeletons come from  they must have been brought through during the final ghost shift, or created from materials brought through with the advance party.

As for the Daleks from the sphere & inside the Genesis Ark, they would have had void stuff on them in the same manner that Rose & the Doctor would have, even though they were in the TARDIS as it when it crossed the void. The Daleks would have had more stuff, as they were in the void for longer.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

The Torchwood building should have been torn to shreds with the Cybermen and Daleks being pulled in from all angles. But convienently, they all flew in from an angle that protected the Doctor and Rose. I suppose one could argue that there was a funnel extending from the rift. I guess I just wanted to see the building ripped into Swiss cheese.


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## rhuntington3 (May 1, 2001)

Awesome!


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

I liked the Dalek trash talking: "This is not war, this is pest control" and "You are better at dying."

I do wonder, however, when exactly did Rose regain her memory of the time she absorbed the Time Vortex? When she woke up immediately afterwards she didn't seem to remember what had happened, but now she seems to know about her having disintegrated the Dalek Emperor.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

nhaigh said:


> I suspect that was deliberate - as was the:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Not only the Dalek, the ark/prison did the same thing.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

pgogborn said:


> Not only the Dalek, the ark/prison did the same thing.


It did? I only saw the Dalek do it.

I find it interesting that the Daleks had a few Time shift to escape the war but the Doctor is the only Timelord to do so.

As for Rose, I'll leave it as The Doctor filled her in as to what occurred.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

Langree said:


> It did? I only saw the Dalek do it.


The Dalek was very much in the foreground of the frame but I _think_ the ark/prison was in the distance and disappeared a very short time after the Dalek and its time shift.

At the time no Daleks were streaming out, so I suppose it could have been already empty, but perhaps not.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

It seemed pretty clear to me at the time that the ark got sucked back into the void.

Okay, I just checked it again, and right after the Black Dalek does his "emergency temporal shift" and disappears, we cut to the ark which hovers for a second then starts to get sucked towards the tower. Another cut to a wide shot of the tower shows the streams of Daleks getting sucked in and you can see the ark getting sucked in along a trajectory all by itself before it merges with the other streams of Daleks.

It's unclear how many Daleks besides the Black one shifted away, but the Ark was unmistakably sucked back into the void.


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

Great season finale. I figured pretty early Rose's death would be metaphorical, although she was listed among the dead on her Earth.

It's been awhile since Doctor Who was regular in my life. It's been hard remembering that companions come and go, as do Doctors.

Still, I think in all the years, only one companion ever died (not counting Rose's sort of death). Anyone besides me remember who it was?


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

BTW, since I think Torchwood was mentioned in *every* episode this season, anyone know when Torchwood is starting?


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## rloper (Mar 25, 2002)

pkscout said:


> Still, I think in all the years, only one companion ever died (not counting Rose's sort of death). Anyone besides me remember who it was?


3 companions actually. Katarina and Sara Kingdom in "The Dalek Masterplan" (1st Doctor) and Adric in "Earthshock" (5th Doctor).


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

rloper said:


> 3 companions actually. Katarina and Sara Kingdom in "The Dalek Masterplan" (1st Doctor) and Adric in "Earthshock" (5th Doctor).


OK, you win. You're a bigger Who geek than I am. I only remembered Adric. I had to go look up the other two to prove to myself that you were right. 

I'm starting to realize again that the writing on Doctor Who has always been really good. I'm watching shows on USA (mainly the 4400) for which I don't care what happens to the characters. With Doctor Who, I shed a tear when I realized Rose would never see the Doctor again but happy for her that she has her whole "family" in one place and gets to work for Torchwood.

My concern now is how much change the audience is willing to accept. One year we change Doctors, the next we change companions. Folks who don't get into the concept might quit watching after the characters they've grown to enjoy leave.


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## jeremy3721 (Feb 16, 2002)

So did Peri not qualify as being dead? I'm still got a couple of Colin Baker episodes left to watch but they seem to have moved on after Peri's body was taken over.


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## TiVo Steve (Nov 8, 2005)

I really enjoyed this season of "The Doctor". A very nice way for Rose to depart. 
(and a tear jerker for the Mrs.,OK, me too) :up:


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## quango (Sep 25, 2005)

pkscout said:


> BTW, since I think Torchwood was mentioned in *every* episode this season, anyone know when Torchwood is starting?


Wikipedia says October 2006 on BBC 3, followed shortly by your favorite, um, er, other means of broadcast.


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## rhuntington3 (May 1, 2001)

jeremy3721 said:


> So did Peri not qualify as being dead? I'm still got a couple of Colin Baker episodes left to watch but they seem to have moved on after Peri's body was taken over.


Keep watching.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Rose really matured into quite the badass Time Traveler. She stared down the Daleks without even blinking.

When Tennant was in the other universe with Pete Tyler and he was angrily going on about how inter-dimensional travel was bad for the universes, he was starting to slip slightly back to his natural Scottish accent.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

busyba said:


> Rose really matured into quite the badass Time Traveler. She stared down the Daleks without even blinking.


I loved when she said "The Doctor!" and they all jerked back.


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

jeremy3721 said:


> So did Peri not qualify as being dead? I'm still got a couple of Colin Baker episodes left to watch but they seem to have moved on after Peri's body was taken over.


As you haven't seen it yet:


Spoiler



"The Trial Of A Time Lord" revealed that Peri was alive and well, married to Sabalom Glitz.


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## Pralix (Dec 8, 2001)

Sherminator said:


> As you haven't seen it yet:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


not really.



Spoiler



Actually it was King Yaconos not Glitz that she married. She was supposed to have died at the end of Mindwarp but the BBC made a new ending that was played at the end of The Ultimate Foe.


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## doom1701 (May 15, 2001)

OK, I had a thought (now that I've seen the finale).

The alternate universe had it's own Torchwood.

Torchwood was created specifically because of the Doctor.

Now, keeping in mind that alternate universe stories are basically blank checks for getting rid of logic, wouldn't it make sense that the alternate universe has it's own Doctor?


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Perhaps - but the alternate universe didn't have their own Rose, so therefore neither did the potential alternate doctor.

As a result - that doctor may have gottem himself killed by a bunch of Daleks on a gaming station (or any of a dozen other ways).

-Ken


----------

