# John Adams: HBO mini-series: parts 1 and 2: OAD 3-16-2008 *spoilers*



## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Excellent shows. I'm glad that they put extra time into the second episode and completed the major points for that time frame.

Looking forward to next week's new episode.


Episode two was very cool for me as a fan of the old musical 1776 and of the entire revolutionary war period. The only part I wasn't thrilled with seeing was the plague issues. Yick.


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## USAFSSO (Aug 24, 2005)

Thought this was great. Paul Giamatti is doing a pretty good job. Looking forward to the rest.

I do enjoy the history lesson. _Yes I would fail on Smarter than a 5th Grader_


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

USAFSSO said:


> Thought this was great. Paul Giamatti is doing a pretty good job. Looking forward to the rest.
> 
> I do enjoy the history lesson. _Yes I would fail on Smarter than a 5th Grader_


Sadly I think many of us would fail on 5th grader, no matter how much I might enjoy watching the relative stupidity of contestants there 

So far I give high marks to the production team for this series though. I hadn't seen the 'making of' special until after I watched the first two episodes. I knew that Tom Hanks was involved, and of course it was going to air on HBO, so I figured that the series would be striving for authenticity. So far, well done.

Still has me salivating a bit for the pending series "The Pacific" (another Hanks production coming to HBO).


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

It was very enjoyable; they did a great job so far making it a compelling view.

I have question... is there actually a record of what had been spoken at the congress that met to vote on a declaration of independence such that any of that dialog was based upon fact rather than made up completely?


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## flaminio (May 21, 2004)

LOL -- "spoilers". Here's a spoiler: he dies on July 4, 1826, the same day as Thomas Jefferson.

Sounds like a good show. I don't get HBO, but I'll be sure to Netflix the DVD when it comes out.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

My wife isn't feeling well and fell asleep during the first episode so I couldn't watch the second one (she really wants to see them). But, the first one was great. It was interesting to see Samuel Adams as such an inveterate rabble-rouser. Can't wait to see more tomorrow!


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

How much sex, nudity, and violence?

(It's HBO, after all.)


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

dtle said:


> How much sex, nudity, and violence?
> 
> (It's HBO, after all.)


No sex in the first episode. As far as the rest, a man was stripped then tarred and feathered.

The second episode is recorded but I haven't seen it yet.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Most of the sex, nudity and violence was off-screen. In fact the only on-screen nudity & violence was really the tarring & feathering, which was pretty gruesome.

I thought this was excellent, though the episodes ran long. I learned a lot -- I had no idea that Pennsylvania was such a problem for the New Englanders and the independence movement.

I was surprised at how much they cut - the Boston Tea Party was a HUGE shoot and an all-nighter, we worked 5PM 'til 6AM. I was pleasantly surprised, however that I was not just a background extra - I was in a close-up foreground shot. In the funeral procession, I am the wounded man walking with a stick (you can see Mr. Palmes, the reluctant witness, behind me carrying a coffin). I have no idea how to do screencaps but it was a hoot at our viewing "party" last night.


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

MacThor said:


> I was surprised at how much they cut - the Boston Tea Party was a HUGE shoot and an all-nighter, we worked 5PM 'til 6PM.


Don't you mean 5PM to 6AM?


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

jamesbobo said:


> Don't you mean 5PM to 6AM?


Fixed it - thanks!


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Question:

I think my TiVo recorded the first 2 episodes out of order.
Anyone know offhand which is part 1 and which is part 2?

The episode titles are 
Join or Die 
and
Independence

Thanks!


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Join or Die - 1
Independence - 2


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

MacThor said:


> Join or Die - 1
> Independence - 2


Thanks MacThor - I was right - TiVo recorded Independence last night and Join or Die this morning  appreciate the quick response.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I am sorry I missed these. Will they be repeated before the next ones?


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## trausch (Jan 8, 2004)

dswallow said:


> It was very enjoyable; they did a great job so far making it a compelling view.
> 
> I have question... is there actually a record of what had been spoken at the congress that met to vote on a declaration of independence such that any of that dialog was based upon fact rather than made up completely?


I am not sure about the Continental Congresses but Constitutional Congress had them. James Madison took notes (http://www.nhccs.org/Mnotes.html) as did Jefferson I believe.


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## nirisahn (Nov 19, 2005)

I'm loving this. Ever since reading 'Founding Brothers' I've been getting into learning more about the men that founded this country. The more I learn, the more amazed I am. This show is very well done, although I wish they had showed the Boston Tea Party. I could have done without the plague scenes, but they demonstrated just how amazing Abigail Adams was. But she would have to have been to put up with John Adams for all those years.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

It's not a screencap, but it'll have to do.....


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Way to go MacThor :up:


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

betts4 said:


> I am sorry I missed these. Will they be repeated before the next ones?


HBO typically repeats multiple times through the week so I would think yes. If memory serves the Sunday night programming normally repeats on Wednesday, but could be wrong.

Check HBO's schedule or your online guide data for more showtimes :up:


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## Royster (May 24, 2002)

I've scheduled tomight's repeats. Lots of repeats in the schedule this week.

But, WTF is up with online scheduling? I did four or five online requests last week. Two of them showed up on *Sunday* night and JA wasn't among them.


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

MacThor said:


> It's not a screencap, but it'll have to do.....


Hey that guy looks like you! Is he your grandfather??


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

Yes, I thought the tarring and feathering was gruesome as well.

I think mostly people today think it was a humiliation practice with something sticky and feathers since most people have not worked with hot tar. Instead it is an almost certain lingering death sentence since there was no real way to survive 3rd degree burns over most of the body back then. I read somewhere that the real problem was making sure that the tar was not so hot that the victim died immediately from shock.

Al


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## Weezoh (May 9, 2002)

Royster said:


> But, WTF is up with online scheduling? I did four or five online requests last week. Two of them showed up on *Sunday* night and JA wasn't among them.


I had a problem too; I set up the season pass via online this morning and my e-mail confirmation came back saying that the season pass was set up but no episodes would be recorded as they weren't in the program info yet. Just now I had my wife check the season passes and there was no pass there so she set it up manually and everything seems fine.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

I enjoyed both episodes. I was also surprised they glossed over the tea party.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

jamesbobo said:


> No sex in the first episode. As far as the rest, a man was stripped then tarred and feathered.
> 
> The second episode is recorded but I haven't seen it yet.


I could have done without the tar and feathering scene actually. Ewwwww


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

acvthree said:


> Yes, I thought the tarring and feathering was gruesome as well.
> 
> I think mostly people today think it was a humiliation practice with something sticky and feathers since most people have not worked with hot tar. Instead it is an almost certain lingering death sentence since there was no real way to survive 3rd degree burns over most of the body back then. I read somewhere that the real problem was making sure that the tar was not so hot that the victim died immediately from shock.
> 
> Al


I checked wikipedia and they said that mostly the tar was about 60 degrees C which caused 1st and some 2nd degree but also cooled very quickly. Not usually fatal.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

Weezoh said:


> I had a problem too; I set up the season pass via online this morning and my e-mail confirmation came back saying that the season pass was set up but no episodes would be recorded as they weren't in the program info yet. Just now I had my wife check the season passes and there was no pass there so she set it up manually and everything seems fine.


Which is odd since it said it would keep looking. It never set a pass so last friday, I finally set it myself.


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## gpejsa (Jan 27, 2002)

I enjoyed J.Adams too. Part 1 was decent, but part 2 was excellent. Looking forward to the rest!



bdowell said:


> Excellent shows. I'm glad that they put extra time into the second episode and completed the major points for that time frame.
> 
> Looking forward to next week's new episode.
> 
> Episode two was very cool for me as a fan of the old musical 1776 and of the entire revolutionary war period. The only part I wasn't thrilled with seeing was the plague issues. Yick.


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> I checked wikipedia and they said that mostly the tar was about 60 degrees C which caused 1st and some 2nd degree but also cooled very quickly. Not usually fatal.


This does dissagree a bit with some other historical books I've read. In particular two books on Georgia history. I've tried to google a reference and failed.

I'll take wikipedia as the definitive source.

I did run across this interesting reference...

"Those who see the film are going to see the 18th century in a way they've never seen it before," said McCullough, who helped edit the scripts and has seen the series in its entirety. "They're going to see people with dirty fingernails and bad teeth. They're going to see what being tarred and feathered was really like. It wasn't a high school prank; it was torture, and people died from it. They're going to see what it was to have a child stricken with smallpox or to be inoculated for smallpox. And a lot of it's hard to watch because it's gruesome."


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

I too am thoroughly enjoying this as well as the history lesson. I'm a dum-dum when it comes to history. I almost wish they would have have captions on the screen to introduce everyone who appears onscreen! "Introducing...Thomas Paine!"


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

I had a hard time getting past Paul Giamatti; Took a while for me to get into the story. Interesting choice to play this role. 

He seemed to be going for a low gravely voice with this character. It came off as mumbling to me. Maybe this was a known trait of John Adams?

Living near Boston, we know the Boston Massacre story pretty well, having walked past the Custom house along the freedom trail several times. It was interesting to see the location as it might have appeared in 1770.


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## Globular (Jun 9, 2004)

My wife and I were wondering why everything passed by the Adams farmhouse, about 10 miles south of downtown Boston. And how JA could jump on his horse and get to Concord and back so quickly. 

The scene of Washington's camp in Cambridge was cool. I pass that spot every day on my way to work and it was neat to "see" it in 1775.

-Matt


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Did anyone have problems with Digital restrictions on this program on their Series 3 or HD TiVo? I heard a story yesterday on the Buzz Out Loud CNET podcast that a guy's recording of this would only let him keep it 90 minutes, and wouldn't let him rewind. 

Just wondering if any one here ran into that.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Great series and I am a fan of US History so that makes this even better!! I was not aware that JA defended the British officer involved in the Boston Massacre. I was a little unclear at what point JA became and ardent rebel. It seemed like he was on the fence through most of the first episode, defending the Brit and decrying the tarring and feathering of the captain of the tea ship. I always knew that Sam Adams was the leader of the rabble rousers pre-revolution. Did JA's daugther live from the pox? At one point she seemed on death's door, then she was reading the D of I and she seemed better. I love the portrayal of Abigal as a strong woman, a rarity in the 18th century. She could teach Hillary a lesson or two I think. The other thing that struck me was the backroom deals they made with Rutledge of SC, the NY contingent and Dickenson of PA to get the vote for Independence passed. Seems like this was the pre-cursor to how most deals work in Congress today. And Ben Franklin was a hoot. I love the way he cajoled everyone into being on JA's side without actually saying or doing anything until the outcome was not in doubt. A master politician.

Also, never realized that Jefferson invented the swival chair


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Peter000 said:


> Did anyone have problems with Digital restrictions on this program on their Series 3 or HD TiVo? I heard a story yesterday on the Buzz Out Loud CNET podcast that a guy's recording of this would only let him keep it 90 minutes, and wouldn't let him rewind.
> 
> Just wondering if any one here ran into that.


There was apparently a problem with the Making Of documentary in one cable market...


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

For those who may not have been to Boston, here is the old State House (built 1713):










There is a circle of cobblestones (where the two people are seen in the center of the picture) marking the location of the Massacre.










On July 18, 1776, the Declaration of Independence was proclaimed from the east side balcony by Col. Thomas Crafts (one of the Sons of Liberty). The Lion and Unicorn features, symbols of King George's authority (at the roof line in the picture) were torn down later that day and destroyed in a bonfire in Dock Square. King Street is later renamed to State Street.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_State_House_(Boston)


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

markp99 said:


> For those who may not have been to Boston, here is the old State House (built 1713):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, that was a pretty serious blunder on the part of the show. Those buildings in the background were nowhere to be seen!


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Just amazing the way that NY busted the balls of the Patriots in NE even way back then. Some things never change.


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## Mabes (Jan 12, 2001)

markp99 said:


> I had a hard time getting past Paul Giamatti; Took a while for me to get into the story. Interesting choice to play this role.


That was why I was not initially looking forward to this. I always have a hard time getting past well known actors as historical figures. I'm always aware of the actor playing the role.

Another thing that keeps distracting me are the silly wigs they used to wear. How did this practice originate, was it only "distinguished gentlemen" who wore them?" (and why did Ben Franklin not wear one?) I'm reminded of that line by Larry Miller - "When you're talking to someone with a bad toupee, there is not a single moment when you're not thinking - 'It's a rug, it's a rug, it's a rug.'"

I'm enjoying the show. I particularly like how they are portraying all of them realistically and not as some sort of Revolutionary Superheroes who knew exactly what they were doing every step of the way. They were winging it in a lot of ways, which in the end makes their accomplishment that much more remarkable.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

Mabes said:


> Another thing that keeps distracting me are the silly wigs they used to wear. How did this practice originate, was it only "distinguished gentlemen" who wore them?" (and why did Ben Franklin not wear one?) I'm reminded of that line by Larry Miller - "When you're talking to someone with a bad toupee, there is not a single moment when you're not thinking - 'It's a rug, it's a rug, it's a rug.'"


Interesting question. I'd be interested as well. Should as my sister the history major. There were a few other who were wigless. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Caesar Rodney come to mind.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> Interesting question. I'd be interested as well. Should as my sister the history major. There were a few other who were wigless. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Caesar Rodney come to mind.


Is there a connection between JA being a lawyer and the wig usage? I know that the British barristers wore wigs that were similar. /shrug


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## Mabes (Jan 12, 2001)

Washington wore a wig later, was it only when he became President? I know there is a connection to the Brits, well I guess almost everything in those days had a connection. So maybe it was just lawyers and politicians.

I believe they still wear wigs in Britian.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

jradosh said:


> Is there a connection between JA being a lawyer and the wig usage? I know that the British barristers wore wigs that were similar. /shrug


Only when he was in court and wearing a white/powdered wig. This is still the case in British courts. Daily wig wear was common in the upper classes,less so among their poorer countrymen. I've not have great success in finding out why.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Some wig info here... http://www.stitchnsave.com/wigs/Colonial_Wigs.asp


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Ah... here's a better read

http://boston1775.blogspot.com/2007/01/what-wigs-said-about-class-and-values.html


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## Bradc314 (Dec 4, 2001)

I was actually suprisingly pleased that the focus remained on JA, and did not alter the point of view in order to include famous events such as the Tea Party.


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## tem (Oct 6, 2003)

philw1776 said:


> Just amazing the way that NY busted the balls of the Patriots in NE even way back then. Some things never change.




I'm a bit disappointed by how they are making Laura Linney/Abigail into some sort of Yoda. All her calm, sage advice along w/ her delivery is getting kinda annoying.

I am, however, looking forward to seeing Sarah Polley as the older Nabby Adams.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

jradosh said:


> Ah... here's a better read
> 
> http://boston1775.blogspot.com/2007/01/what-wigs-said-about-class-and-values.html


I found both of those but still feel like there's something missing. Oh well.


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## Cindy1230 (Oct 31, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> I love the portrayal of Abigail as a strong woman, a rarity in the 18th century.





tem said:


> I'm a bit disappointed by how they are making Laura Linney/Abigail into some sort of Yoda. All her calm, sage advice along w/ her delivery is getting kinda annoying.


I agree with Steve, it's nice to be reminded that it wasn't just our founding father's, there were these great/strong women who stood with them but never really got to be in the spotlight. I'm no history buff, but it's really nice to see.

I also think the casting of Ben Franklin and George Washington is great. I know it's David Morse but the nose helps me forget it's him and it's Washington.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Bradc314 said:


> I was actually suprisingly pleased that the focus remained on JA, and did not alter the point of view in order to include famous events such as the Tea Party.


But JA attended the tea party (though he didn't participate) at a time when the British still considered him "their man."


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## bigray327 (Apr 14, 2000)

This series is fantastic so far.

My favorite scene is in the second episode, where the soldiers are walking past the Adams house after the Battle of Bunker Hill. 

Abigail: we saw flames above the harbor.
Soldier: Gage's ships laid into us with cannon fire. They sent their butchers through the smoke at Bunker Hill.
Abigail: dear God.
Soldier: We held them back.

The mix of pride and sadness on his face is amazing. Great scene.

I also liked the portrayal of George Washington. Well done!


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## dmlove51 (Mar 17, 2004)

How many episodes are there? Is it on a regular schedule (like Sundays at 9, Mondays at 10)? We missed the first two, and have to watch "on demand".


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

You should be able to catch a re-airing this week if you want to get it into your TiVo without On Demand.

HBO Airing Schedule

It's a 7-part miniseries.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Watched both episodes last night. I was initially looking very forward to this series, then read a review that basically said "booooring". Didn't let that stop me, and I'm glad I didn't. I found it incredibly interesting. I thought Ep1 was a little slow, and perhaps this is all the reviewer watched? Ep2 was outstanding. I actually had chills running up my spine when they finally read the D of I at the end. I'm not a jingoistic person, but I can't imagine any American watching this and not being moved.

I'm really looking forward to the rest of this series! :up:

BTW...to the person who had the recording problems. There have been a couple of isolated instances of cable companies incorrectly setting the CCI Byte on certain cable channels; this is the setting that determines whether the HD TiVos can copy/record/timeshift a recording. PPV is the only type of broadcast that is supposed to have a CCI of 3; this requires viewing within 90 minutes, at which time it is deleted (not sure on the rewind part). It sounds like the person who had the viewing problam has a cable operator that has incorrectly set that CCI Byte on HBO. See the HD TiVo forums for more info.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

I was suprised that Ben Franklin was portrayed as agreeable to independence but reluctant to vote or push for it, at first. I thought he was pretty much always active to that aim; writing articles to newspapers, letters to Thomas Paine, etc.


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

tem said:


> I'm a bit disappointed by how they are making Laura Linney/Abigail into some sort of Yoda. All her calm, sage advice along w/ her delivery is getting kinda annoying.
> 
> I am, however, looking forward to seeing Sarah Polley as the older Nabby Adams.


I'm fairly certain that this is an accurate portrayal of Abigail Adams. It may be annoying, but it's true to life.


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

I was fascinated watching the Independence (Part 2) portion. At times it looks like your typical backroom political dealing, until you realize (at least in my case), "Holy sh*t, they're creating our country!"


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Sirius Black said:


> I was suprised that Ben Franklin was portrayed as agreeable to independence but reluctant to vote or push for it, at first. I thought he was pretty much always active to that aim; writing articles to newspapers, letters to Thomas Paine, etc.


I think Franklin, ever the diplomat wanted to make sure he hedged his bet. I think, while he agreed with the prinicples which JA stood for, he need to also be loyal to the PA contingent. I also think that he needed to make sure that they would be able to get a consensous before fully commiting. If I recall my history, wasn't BF an emissary to King George prior to the revolution? Perhaps this led him err on the side of caution.


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## minorthr (Nov 24, 2001)

flaminio said:


> LOL -- "spoilers".


I laughed at this as well. I thought it was a good show. There seems to be a lot of stuff on the Revolutionary war this week and I find myself watching it all. I think I'm turning into my dad.


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## Flop (Dec 2, 2005)

Ah well, guess I'm not watching it any time soon. It's flagged and deleted as soon as the episode ends. Missed the first two, so not gonna bother until they get around to allowing me to record/time-shift it.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Flop said:


> Ah well, guess I'm not watching it any time soon. It's flagged and deleted as soon as the episode ends. Missed the first two, so not gonna bother until they get around to allowing me to record/time-shift it.


This is a problem with your local cable company, so you need to call them up and complain. There's nothing HBO can do about it. FYI...


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## izmack (Feb 3, 2002)

Cindy1230 said:


> I
> I also think the casting of Ben Franklin and George Washington is great. I know it's David Morse but the nose helps me forget it's him and it's Washington.


Whenever I look at him, I really keep seeing Washington's grade school portrait that hung in my room from kindergarten to 6th grade!


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## izmack (Feb 3, 2002)

Franklin giving diplomacy lessons to Adams was interesting.

And...

It's easy to "Monday morning quarterback" our viewing, but to think that every man in the Continental Congress was basically a traitor (equalling a death sentence) after voting for Independence is facinating. We were outgunned, outmanned, and out-shipped by what was the the biggest empire in the world at the time. I'm not sure I would have bet on that bunch to win, let alone end up where we are today. Gives new meaning to how Washington's leadership skills had to be the driving force of victory.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

Just finished II (watched I yesterday). While I enjoyed I a lot, II simply blew me away, incredible storytelling and acting and i too had chills at various parts, including the reading of the DofI. Bravo, can't wait to fire up #3 soon


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

dswallow said:


> It was very enjoyable; they did a great job so far making it a compelling view.
> 
> I have question... is there actually a record of what had been spoken at the congress that met to vote on a declaration of independence such that any of that dialog was based upon fact rather than made up completely?


I finally got around to watching part II. In answer to your question, the actual transcripts (if there ever were any) were lost. I remember doing a term paper on John Adams back in college. All the sources said that his last speech that pushed everybody over the edge was spectacular, but that what he actually said will never be known.

I'm really enjoying this. It is very slow paced and actually seems like it's longer than it is, but it's an amazing production. So far the CGI has been very well done and the performances have been phenomenal. Laura Linney is perfect as Abigail and I love the chemistry between the two of them. I found looking at Washington distracting, because I could see David Morse under there, but they did a great job making him look like the portraits we've seen. I'm looking forward to watching the rest of this.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

There's a "making of" featurette on HBO that goes into some detail about the CGI. I was pretty surprised about much of what was CGI.


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