# TiVo may ditch Android TV going forward as Google copies the Stream 4K’s biggest selling point



## Vm19

TiVo Android TV future in jeopardy by Google's hand - 9to5Google

They should at least fix the bugs before ditching the platform, they have been radio silent for months...

As people have said here, there is no reason to get this device over the Chromecast with Google TV. I wonder how long they're going to support the device. I hope they communicate their plans soon.


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## dbpaddler

Meh. Feel like it's nonsense. I always got the impression the TS4k was more so a consumer test device for their Android based Cable OS and TS4k owners are Guinea pigs. At least that's what the beta makes it feel like.

Now if they were just throwing up their hands because they keep breaking simple things that should just work and then take forever to acknowledge it, let alone fix it. That I could see.

But their future is Android. Not sure why these non journalist bloggers don't actually do their homework and paint the complete picture before jumping to speculative conclusions.

And does Google really do it better? Last I checked, the Stream 4k doesn't include paid placement content like that of hbo max on Google's home screen. And Google has much more recommended content from providers I'm not subscribed to. I also find the stream's rows of content more worthwhile than Google's. But the blogger fails to mention any of that.

I don't really use stream, and my ccgtv collects dust. I'm just not a aggregated content fan. I prefer the Android TV home screen over both of those options for its app based rows I can arrange to my liking. 

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## slick1ru2

Actually the TiVo device is better. 






Vm19 said:


> TiVo Android TV future in jeopardy by Google's hand - 9to5Google
> 
> They should at least fix the bugs before ditching the platform, they have been radio silent for months...
> 
> As people have said here, there is no reason to get this device over the Chromecast with Google TV. I wonder how long they're going to support the device. I hope they communicate their plans soon.


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## Old Roamio 0

slick1ru2 said:


> Actually the TiVo device is better.


Yes. I like the Tivo better than the google one too. That's actually the problem in my house. But, on the other hand: We in my family are aging, and can't can't seem to give up on TIVO. Anything they do we mostly like just automatically. So I hope they stay around a long long time on Android and those other things the dvrs - mostly as is.


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## NashGuy

Some who've tried both devices like the TiVo Stream app's UI better for content aggregation and management, others prefer the Google TV UI on the new Chromecast (and soon to be on various smart TVs and probably other boxes and dongles). But it's hard for little TiVo to do battle with a giant like Google when they're playing on Google's home turf. TiVo's UI has to live in its own Stream app but, as long as it's on Android TV, Google gets to control the home screen. That's not ideal for TiVo.

And the situation will get worse in the future because Google is gradually replacing the Android TV home screen launcher with the fuller-featured Google TV experience, which is more similar to the TiVo Stream app. I think Google said that all Android TV devices launching after some point in 2022 will be required to use Google TV. As TiVo/Xperi's CEO pointed out yesterday, the Google TV home screen already does basically the same thing as what the TiVo Stream app aims to do. Having two UIs on the same device doing the same sort of cross-app search/aggregation/recommendations is a weird situation. And when Google's UI is baked into the home screen and backed by the OS developer, who also happens to be the biggest tech company in the world, well, that puts TiVo's UI, siloed away in its own separate app, at a distinct disadvantage.

So TiVo's plan going forward is to pivot from their own streaming device to having their UI built into smart TVs. And apparently ditch Android TV/Google TV too, allowing TiVo to own the home screen UI. But that would mean having to build their own app store. Because I really don't think they'll be able to access the Google Play app store if they're not using Google TV.

So, as Dave Zatz speculates, it seems likely that TiVo's smart TV platform will do what Amazon did with their Fire TV platform: build the OS on open-source Android and design their own custom UI home screen and app store. If they're smart, they'll do things in a way that lets app developers just stick their Android-based Fire TV apps into the TiVo app store and ensure they run without any significant tweaks. In the past, TiVo has never had the heft to get many app providers to support a dedicated TiVo app store/platform. (Look at how sad the app experience on traditional TiVo DVRs has been.) But with the backing of a major smart TV manufacturer, they should have enough sway.

Which TV manufacturer might adopt the forthcoming TiVo Stream OS and app store? Samsung and LG are doing very well with their own smart OSes, so not them. Sony and Hisense (and some TCL models) use Google TV/Android TV. TCL is well-known for the popular Roku OS, so I can't see them switching. So my first guess of who might go with TiVo is Vizio, whose own app platform has always been a bit of a mess. Panasonic, which still sells TVs outside the US and has their own generic smart OS (after dumping Firefox OS a few years ago), might adopt TiVo. Skyworth is a big Chinese brand that's just now starting to enter the US market. Like their Chinese rival Hisense, they use Android TV, but they may want to switch to something else in the US market to differentiate themselves.


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## morac

Considering Tivo has already had one failed TV with Tivo software, I don't see any company partnering with Tivo to create a second.

Best Buy announces Insignia Connected TV with TiVo-powered interface

The answer to this years old blog post is kill it.

Will Google Marry TiVo or Kill It? | The Motley Fool


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## scottchez

I like the tivo remote at lot. What if they dump the tivo special apps and just use the google menu. Maybe include the button mapper or something like that so when you push Guide it brings up the guide for what ever you use like Youtube Hulu live or Sling guide


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## Sequoia225

I still cant believe Tivo hasnt fixed the YTTV prooblem on the Stream 4K. Its unusable. Now I feel its not probably they will fix it.


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## NashGuy

morac said:


> Considering Tivo has already had one failed TV with Tivo software, I don't see any company partnering with Tivo to create a second.
> 
> Best Buy announces Insignia Connected TV with TiVo-powered interface


That was so long ago, before streaming really took off, and with such a minor brand, that I don't think it matters. No one remembers the TiVo/Insignia smart TV platform.

That said, I'd say it's still an uphill climb for TiVo to get a major TV manufacturer to partner with them. The CEO said this on the Xperi earnings call this week:

_And so we've really jumped to from Phase 1 which is Stream 4K directly into working aggressively on getting our solutions embedded in TVs in a deeper level. So that's essentially what's happened, that work is ongoing and continues very well, continue to have partner discussions that I think are quite engaged around it.
_​But between Roku and Google TV (and a few minor brands using Fire TV OS), TV manufacturers already have established, well-known smart platforms to choose from. So we'll see...


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## dbpaddler

Well, if they end up in tv's, they need to fix all the quirks and be much more responsive in fixing new ones. One thing when you're spending $40 on a streamer. But when you drop a grand on a TV and have those issues, people get even more irate.

Hell.... Reddit people are off the handle because of the simple banner ad now that Sony has updated their tv's. I paid good money for my Sony TV that didn't have ads... Blah blah blah.

Yeah, like that was even a consideration in your purchase because actual panel and processing quality wasn't on your radar. And you knew it was coming for the past 6+ months and never preemptively said a word. But I digress. 

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## morac

NashGuy said:


> That was so long ago, before streaming really took off, and with such a minor brand, that I don't think it matters. No one remembers the TiVo/Insignia smart TV platform.


The reason no one remembers the Tivo Insignia TV is it wasn't very good.

It was released 3 years after Roku was released, so streaming did exist back then.

Also Insignia isn't a tiny brand. They are are Best Buy's own brand. They currently run the Amazon Fire TV interface.

No TV manufacturer in their right mind is going to pick Tivo over Fire TV, Roku or Android (or even their own in house model). Not with TiVo's current track record. They haven't had a hit product in over a decade and have been acquired twice in that time frame.


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## Foogie

Sequoia225 said:


> I still cant believe Tivo hasnt fixed the YTTV prooblem on the Stream 4K. Its unusable. Now I feel its not probably they will fix it.


It is not a Tivo device problem but an AndroidTV version 9 issue, Ruku (which has got rid of YTTV), FireTV, CCWGTV do not run AndroidTV version 9. Also Tivo would be working on a problem that helps Sling's competition which I'm sure would be against the terms of their partnership.



scottchez said:


> I like the tivo remote at lot. What if they dump the tivo special apps and just use the google menu. Maybe include the button mapper or something like that so when you push Guide it brings up the guide for what ever you use like Youtube Hulu live or Sling guide


Why? you think they make money from selling the device?


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## Pokemon_Dad

morac said:


> Considering Tivo has already had one failed TV with Tivo software, I don't see any company partnering with Tivo to create a second.
> 
> Best Buy announces Insignia Connected TV with TiVo-powered interface
> 
> The answer to this years old blog post is kill it.
> 
> Will Google Marry TiVo or Kill It? | The Motley Fool


Wow, that Insignia TV didn't even have a CableCARD. In 2011. No wonder I never heard of it.

I have two Insignia "Fire TV Edition" sets now. I can't imagine them going back to TiVo at this point.


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## NashGuy

morac said:


> The reason no one remembers the Tivo Insignia TV is it wasn't very good.
> 
> It was released 3 years after Roku was released, so streaming did exist back then.
> 
> Also Insignia isn't a tiny brand. They are are Best Buy's own brand. They currently run the Amazon Fire TV interface.
> 
> No TV manufacturer in their right mind is going to pick Tivo over Fire TV, Roku or Android (or even their own in house model). Not with TiVo's current track record. They haven't had a hit product in over a decade and have been acquired twice in that time frame.


Nope. The % of TVs sold in the US, much less worldwide, that are Insignia is insignificant. The brand doesn't really matter in the overall TV industry. So far, those little brands are the only ones that are using Fire TV as their smart OS, which is why Fire TV is insignificant as a smart TV platform. (Virtually all of Fire TV's usage comes from Amazon's sticks, dongles and boxes.) Which is why I say that if TiVo is only able to sign up the same kind of niche generic/budget brands for their platform, then it won't succeed (because, unlike Amazon, they're clearly not making much of a dent in the connected streamer market with the Stream 4K).

Large manufacturers taking meetings with Xperi/TiVo are not making a decision about whether or not to license TiVo's current software/UI/metadata based on the TiVo Insignia TV from several years ago instead of how current TiVo software and services operate. (Again, I'd bet no one in those meetings had any experience with that product or remembers it. There's been a ton of personnel turnover at TiVo since then as they've reorganized and merged with Xperi.) Even the quality (from a consumer perspective) of TiVo's current tech is probably not the most important factor in determining whether a TV manufacturer licenses them but rather other things, like cost, the potential for revenue and data sharing, TiVo brand recognition, etc.

As I say, I wouldn't wager a bet that TiVo will be successful in landing a major TV brand to adopt their smart platform. But if they don't, it won't be because of the failed experiment with Insignia back in 2011. It'll be because TiVo is coming late to field already crowded with other big established competitors.


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## morac

NashGuy said:


> Large manufacturers taking meetings with Xperi/TiVo are not making a decision about whether or not to license TiVo's current software/UI/metadata based on the TiVo Insignia TV from several years ago instead of how current TiVo software and services operate. (Again, I'd bet no one in those meetings had any experience with that product or remembers it. There's been a ton of personnel turnover at TiVo since then as they've reorganized and merged with Xperi.) Even the quality (from a consumer perspective) of TiVo's current tech is probably not the most important factor in determining whether a TV manufacturer licenses them but rather other things, like cost, the potential for revenue and data sharing, TiVo brand recognition, etc.


If TV manufacturers don't recall TiVo's dip into the retail TV market (or aren't savvy enough to do the due diligence by researching this), then they definitely won't even know that Tivo still exists.

I'd be really surprised if Xperi could even get in the door to meet with TV manufacturers let alone get far enough along to be considered. TiVo's UI is nothing special. Their software is designed for a DVR, which isn't a TV and the one device they have that is designed for a TV runs Android/Google TV. Finally there are next to no apps for the "Tivo platform".

Maybe Tivo can partner with some off brand TV that no one has ever heard of, but like you said no one buys those. Also those companies can go with Google, Roku or Amazon and pay next to nothing to license their platforms as the big three make money through ads and aggregate data.

Tivo can't compete by offering an inferior product at a higher price.

Here's the current list of which companies use which platforms

List of smart TV platforms - Wikipedia


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## Old Roamio 0

Smart TVs don't have to be that smart. Streaming dongles are around $50-60. It is still that way even after a tv is bought. As long as there are extra imputs on the TV then an upgrade is easy. That said: They would have to have something different maybe ... like being able to stream a TIVO dvr's recordings with the new TV.


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## dbpaddler

I highly doubt tivo is pushing their dvr platform in this day and age. Would imagine they would adapt their Stream app to a version of Android like Amazon did.

And funny enough, if they then adapted it to a streaming stick, it very well could get legs if they took steps to not make it one giant ad machine like the direction all the others are going to. There is a strong contingent that abhor ads in any form, and Google's big banner seems to morally offend some to their core (laughably so).

So no banner ad and minimal recommendations of content on services you don't pay for could very well win enough people over to get traction.

If it was smooth running and worked well, I'd give one a shot. Why not? On the TV side, if it ends up like Roku and fire and just ends up on bargain basement quality sets, they'll go nowhere.

Make the product solid and find a niche, there's room in the market. There's always room if you can at least secure one niche, and anti ad/commercial people are an angry bunch. 

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## dbpaddler

Old Roamio 0 said:


> That said: They would have to have something different maybe ... like being able to stream a TIVO dvr's recordings with the new TV.


Such a small and dying user base cares about that. Hardly a demographic that matters on a new product. Not sure why people keep clinging to this like it's a thing for the masses.

Ebay has more tivo dvr's than it can handle and selling prices just get cheaper and cheaper because the market is continually shrinking.

I don't even think people that sold off their dvr equipment would see it as a reason to return at this point. I know I wouldn't. Would never go back to being shoehorned into a proprietary system. Especially when I'd bet money you will never see a Tivo atsc 3.0 dvr. Add in cable cards slowly dying off, I can't imagine boxes are selling anywhere close to what they were even just five years ago.

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## NashGuy

One thing the TiVo Stream app has going for it is that it integrates all of Netflix's content into its cross-app watchlist. A huge chunk of streaming happens on Netflix and, as far as I know, no other major streaming integrator works with Netflix original content. I know the TV app on Apple TV, as well as the new Google TV system do not.

I'm sure that there are improvements and tweaks to the UI and feature set that TiVo needs to make but assuming that, with the pull of a major TV brand behind them, they could get all the major apps to show up in a TiVo app store, it might be a pretty decent smart TV OS. Could be really appealing to cord-cutters if they threw in free OTA DVR service. Where Sling TV currently exists in the TiVo Stream system (in the grid guide, content recommendations, universal watchlist, etc.), imagine if they replaced that with OTA TV. Plug in your own USB hard drive or SD card to unlock the ability to pause, rewind and record OTA TV for free with TiVo's 14-day guide. They'd probably still require you to watch a streaming ad before you play your recordings, and maybe put static ads on the pause screen, but still, that kind of capability included free in a TV, integrated and intermingled with the most popular streaming content/apps, would be a real differentiator.


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## dbpaddler

And if tivo ended up with any sort of market share, I'm sure Netflix would shut that down yesterday just like they did to Google.

Netflix wants you to search Netflix first. And if they don't have what you want they have a whole list of recommendations they deem similar to try and keep you in their app. The more you search outside of Netflix, the more likely you are to find something to watch elsewhere. 

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## NashGuy

dbpaddler said:


> And if tivo ended up with any sort of market share, I'm sure Netflix would shut that down yesterday just like they did to Google.
> 
> Netflix wants you to search Netflix first. And if they don't have what you want they have a whole list of recommendations they deem similar to try and keep you in their app. The more you search outside of Netflix, the more likely you are to find something to watch elsewhere.


Yeah, true, although I wonder if TiVo is able to include Netflix in their cross-app UI in the existing TiVo Stream app because of some kind of pre-existing overall agreement with Netflix that spans all their products, including retail DVRs and pay TV partner boxes. If that's the case, it might cover a future TiVo Stream smart TV OS too, at least until the current agreement with Netflix expires.


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## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> Yeah, true, although I wonder if TiVo is able to include Netflix in their cross-app UI in the existing TiVo Stream app because of some kind of pre-existing overall agreement with Netflix that spans all their products, including retail DVRs and pay TV partner boxes. If that's the case, it might cover a future TiVo Stream smart TV OS too, at least until the current agreement with Netflix expires.


I would bet it's because they are barely a speck on the radar. I would think Netflix tracks where traffic comes from, and so little of it is from the Stream app, that's it not worth their time to even send them an email... Haha

The ccgtv was the first device to have the Google TV Home screen. I'm sure Netflix saw the writing on the wall early, and that even current Android tv devices would ultimately get thr Google TV interface and figured to stop that in its tracks before it was really out in full force. Though even Sony tv's are just getting thr updated Android TV launcher with the banner ad. All those whiners don't know how much worse it gets on the Google TV launcher if they're worried about one single banner ad that goes away when you scroll down. Then they'll have all that paid placement and unsubscribed content in the aggregated rows on top of the banner.

Heck, how many TS4k owners actually use the stream app? I have three, and only the beta one has the app active, and I still don't use it.

Now if you twisted my arm and said the device had to default to Stream or to the Google TV launcher, I'd actually choose the stream. But as long as Android TV is still a thing, I won't use either.

Now you throw a forked version of Android on a stick and tv's with Stream as the only launcher, I'd give it a 3-6 months before Netflix shuts that integration down.

2nd question then comes, will users of the TS4k be able to update it to Tivo's new OS? And how long does Tivo continue to support the TS4k if they stop making it?

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## morac

NashGuy said:


> One thing the TiVo Stream app has going for it is that it integrates all of Netflix's content into its cross-app watchlist. A huge chunk of streaming happens on Netflix and, as far as I know, no other major streaming integrator works with Netflix original content. I know the TV app on Apple TV, as well as the new Google TV system do not.


The TV app on Apple TV partly integrates with Netflix in that you can search for an episode of a show on Netflix, find it in the TV app and launch Netflix directly into playing that show.

What the TV app can't do is keep track of what episodes of what shows you've watched, so they won't show up in the up next list.


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## slick1ru2

When I use the Stream app it’s mostly to do a search and find out which app has the movie or TV show I’m looking for


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## scottchez

I de TIVO mine and dont use the stream app, but I love the Tivo remote. Which I could make the Guide button always go to the Sling Guide, the real sling guide not that combined Tivo Guide where you loose the background sound for the channel you were watching.
I really DO NOT like the Stream app or Guide.
I am thinking Tivo should just give up, but keep selling them as they own the copy right on the Peanut report design.


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## NashGuy

dbpaddler said:


> Now you throw a forked version of Android on a stick and tv's with Stream as the only launcher, I'd give it a 3-6 months before Netflix shuts that integration down.


Probably, but just depends. I agree that TiVo is insignificant in terms of the % of devices accessing Netflix but we don't know the specifics of the agreement between the two companies. Remember, Xperi/TiVo/Rovi holds a lot of patents and it wouldn't surprise me if Netflix licenses some of them, which might give them some negotiating leverage that other platforms don't have.



dbpaddler said:


> 2nd question then comes, will users of the TS4k be able to update it to Tivo's new OS? And how long does Tivo continue to support the TS4k if they stop making it?


Assuming that TiVo actually does succeed in landing a smart TV deal and installing their own new OS on it, no, I'd never expect them to backport that to the TS4K. I even wonder if they'd be legally precluded from doing so based on their agreement with Google to use Android TV on the device. But regardless, no way would they spend money to backport a new OS to a 2-year old device with very few users. Maybe, once their smart TV platform was established, they'd bring the OS to a new generation of inexpensive streaming sticks.

As for continued support of the TS4K, my understanding is that it's been fairly buggy so far and patches have been slow in coming. There might yet be another small update or two this year but I'd say it's just as likely -- now that the CEO has essentially publicly announced that the product has no future -- that they move to minimize any further investment in the device, i.e. no more development work on it. They may not even do any further production runs of the device and instead just sell through what's already been made.

The only physical retail partner they have for the TS4K is Walmart, who is set to introduce a similar-specced Android TV 4K HDR streamer, under their in-house Onn brand, possibly as cheap as $30. Even if that device doesn't actually replace the TS4K on Walmart shelves (as the TS4K seems to have done with the old Mi Box Android TV streamer that Walmart previously carried), I can't see the TS4K moving many units with the newer Onn box undercutting it on price by 25%.

The handwriting seems to be on the wall for the TS4K as TiVo's short-lived experiment in the world of non-DVR streaming devices. I wonder if it will end up being the last retail product to ever bear the TiVo brand name...


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## NashGuy

scottchez said:


> I de TIVO mine and dont use the stream app, but I love the Tivo remote. Which I could make the Guide button always go to the Sling Guide, the real sling guide not that combined Tivo Guide where you loose the background sound for the channel you were watching.
> I really DO NOT like the Stream app or Guide.
> I am thinking Tivo should just give up, but keep selling them as they own the copy right on the Peanut report design.


What do you think of the new reference remotes that Google has designed for use with 2021 Google TV/Android TV devices? The larger black one (with 0-9 buttons) is presumably for smart TVs while the smaller white one has been confirmed for use with a new 4K HDR streamer from Walmart's Onn brand. It actually looks much better to me than the remote included with Google's own new Chromecast. I like the volume buttons on top of the remote (rather than the side, as with the Chromecast) and also like the handy Watchlist, Settings, and Live TV buttons.


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## Lenonn

Go figure - I signed up for the 4K Stream Beta a few months ago. Great timing.


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## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> Probably, but just depends. I agree that TiVo is insignificant in terms of the % of devices accessing Netflix but we don't know the specifics of the agreement between the two companies. Remember, Xperi/TiVo/Rovi holds a lot of patents and it wouldn't surprise me if Netflix licenses some of them, which might give them some negotiating leverage that other platforms don't have.
> 
> Assuming that TiVo actually does succeed in landing a smart TV deal and installing their own new OS on it, no, I'd never expect them to backport that to the TS4K. I even wonder if they'd be legally precluded from doing so based on their agreement with Google to use Android TV on the device. But regardless, no way would they spend money to backport a new OS to a 2-year old device with very few users. Maybe, once their smart TV platform was established, they'd bring the OS to a new generation of inexpensive streaming sticks.
> 
> As for continued support of the TS4K, my understanding is that it's been fairly buggy so far and patches have been slow in coming. There might yet be another small update or two this year but I'd say it's just as likely -- now that the CEO has essentially publicly announced that the product has no future -- that they move to minimize any further investment in the device, i.e. no more development work on it. They may not even do any further production runs of the device and instead just sell through what's already been made.
> 
> The only physical retail partner they have for the TS4K is Walmart, who is set to introduce a similar-specced Android TV 4K HDR streamer, under their in-house Onn brand, possibly as cheap as $30. Even if that device doesn't actually replace the TS4K on Walmart shelves (as the TS4K seems to have done with the old Mi Box Android TV streamer that Walmart previously carried), I can't see the TS4K moving many units with the newer Onn box undercutting it on price by 25%.
> 
> The handwriting seems to be on the wall for the TS4K as TiVo's short-lived experiment in the world of non-DVR streaming devices. I wonder if it will end up being the last retail product to ever bear the TiVo brand name...


Agreements are definitely out of my realm of knowledge, and even if they're that restrictive. Will be interesting to see how it shakes out. They could be religated to just cable boxes and royalties in 5yrs or so. Cable cards on the way out. Atsc 3.0 coming into play.

The Onn box isn't special in any way. MicroUSB, zero expansion unless you go otg. Meh remote. It's just cheap. The dynalink was being sold for $30 for a while. Was just reading how that was actually the dt3 reference design Google gave out for app development.

I'd rather see ones a step up between the Shield and ts4k/ccgtv. Stinks to have to go to China for the new mecool or Europe for the Nokia. I keep contemplating the Mecool for $65. I like the idea of the separate optical input. Think that would help use it for audio only purposes and bypass the TV.

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## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> What do you think of the new reference remotes that Google has designed for use with 2021 Google TV/Android TV devices? The larger black one (with 0-9 buttons) is presumably for smart TVs while the smaller white one has been confirmed for use with a new 4K HDR streamer from Walmart's Onn brand. It actually looks much better to me than the remote included with Google's own new Chromecast. I like the volume buttons on top of the remote (rather than the side, as with the Chromecast) and also like the handy Watchlist, Settings, and Live TV buttons.
> 
> View attachment 59707


They really need to go back to dedicated ff/rw/play/pause buttons. And they need more dvr based buttons. Would think if iptv is a thing, why not have them?

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## dbpaddler

Lenonn said:


> Go figure - I signed up for the 4K Stream Beta a few months ago. Great timing.


You can have my slot. I've lost interest in it, and I have no center channel audio on it. My non beta ones seem to work fine.

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## Alex_7

dbpaddler said:


> Stinks to have to go to China for the new mecool or Europe for the Nokia. I keep contemplating the Mecool for $65. I like the idea of the separate optical input. Think that would help use it for audio only purposes and bypass the TV.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


2021 MECOOL KM2 Collective Netflix Certified Android TV Box Amazon Prime Video Youtube supported 2GB RAM 8GB ROM


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## dbpaddler

Alex_7 said:


> 2021 MECOOL KM2 Collective Netflix Certified Android TV Box Amazon Prime Video Youtube supported 2GB RAM 8GB ROM


US $66.99 30%OFF | Mecool KM2 Netflix 4K Android TV Box Amlogic S905X2 2GB DDR4 USB3.0 SPDIF Ethernet WiFi Prime Video HDR 10 Widevine L1 TVBOX
66.99US $ 30% OFF|Mecool KM2 Netflix 4K Android TV Box Amlogic S905X2 2GB DDR4 USB3.0 SPDIF Ethernet WiFi Prime Video HDR 10 Widevine L1 TVBOX|Set-top Boxes| - AliExpress

A little cheaper.

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## NashGuy

dbpaddler said:


> US $66.99 30%OFF | Mecool KM2 Netflix 4K Android TV Box Amlogic S905X2 2GB DDR4 USB3.0 SPDIF Ethernet WiFi Prime Video HDR 10 Widevine L1 TVBOX
> 66.99US $ 30% OFF|Mecool KM2 Netflix 4K Android TV Box Amlogic S905X2 2GB DDR4 USB3.0 SPDIF Ethernet WiFi Prime Video HDR 10 Widevine L1 TVBOX|Set-top Boxes| - AliExpress
> 
> A little cheaper.


This new Mecool box is almost exactly the same hardware, including the remote, as the upcoming Onn Android TV device (which is the same box as the ADT-3 and the Dynalink, all three of which are manufactured by Askey). Only difference is that the Mecool has some additional ports like ethernet and SPDIF which the others lack.


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## NashGuy

dbpaddler said:


> They really need to go back to dedicated ff/rw/play/pause buttons. And they need more dvr based buttons. Would think if iptv is a thing, why not have them?


I agree *unless* Google had the discipline/sway to make Android TV app providers conform to uniform playback control standards so that the 4-way D-pad was sufficient (as is generally the case on Apple TV). You should be able to click left/right during playback to immediately jump back/forward several seconds. And click center once to pause and once again to resume play. And hold down left/right to continuously rewind/FF. Not have to fiddle with on-screen controls or learn different series of button presses for different apps. But the reality is that controls vary from app to app on Android TV. IMO, that's the platform's weakest link.


----------



## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> I agree *unless* Google had the discipline/sway to make Android TV app providers conform to uniform playback control standards so that the 4-way D-pad was sufficient (as is generally the case on Apple TV). You should be able to click left/right during playback to immediately jump back/forward several seconds. And click center once to pause and once again to resume play. And hold down left/right to continuously rewind/FF. Not have to fiddle with on-screen controls or learn different series of button presses for different apps. But the reality is that controls vary from app to app on Android TV. IMO, that's the platform's weakest link.


Funny thing. Was it a chicken and egg thing? I'm thinking the device makers neutered the remotes first and the services had to change to work with the remotes.

Definitely agree it's a weakeness, and I don't think Google really cares. Sadly.

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


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## NashGuy

dbpaddler said:


> Funny thing. Was it a chicken and egg thing? I'm thinking the device makers neutered the remotes first and the services had to change to work with the remotes.
> 
> Definitely agree it's a weakeness, and I don't think Google really cares. Sadly.


The original Android TV reference device was the Nexus Player that Google put out in partnership with manufacturer Asus. As you can see in the photo, its remote's only dedicated playback control button was play/pause. I don't know if Google originally intended that other playback controls (skip back/forward, rew, FF) be on-screen buttons that would be navigated to (ugh) or if they just didn't devise a well-thought-out D-pad-based playback control system (as Apple's tvOS did) that could serve as a reference model for app developers.










Google is notorious for having a million different experiments going at any one time and Android TV seemed, in the early days, like a pretty low priority that didn't get the attention it needed to ensure a high-quality user experience. It feels like it's only really started gaining traction, at least in the US, in the past couple years. Look how long it took Google to finally put out their own Android TV device, the new Chromecast, as a follow-up to the Nexus Player -- six years!


----------



## Alex_7

Don't forget the original failed Google TV!



















Google TV is finally dead. Long live Android TV


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## Lenonn

The report of the Stream 4K's death may have been greatly exaggerated, so says TechHive.​


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## dbpaddler

Lenonn said:


> The report of the Stream 4K's death may have been greatly exaggerated, so says TechHive.​


Maybe this is where journalism actually needs to come into play and further separates journalists from bloggers. Bloggers take one person's comments, do zero digging from any other sources, and just make assumptions, draw their own biased conclusions and run with it. 99% of social media out there today which is what a majority of these sites should be classified as. They're purely in it for the clicks and traffic.

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


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## Pokemon_Dad

dbpaddler said:


> Maybe this is where journalism actually needs to come into play and further separates journalists from bloggers. Bloggers take one person's comments, do zero digging from any other sources, and just make assumptions, draw their own biased conclusions and run with it. 99% of social media out there today which is what a majority of these sites should be classified as. They're purely in it for the clicks and traffic.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


Agreed. But here's someone doing some digging, and it doesn't augur well...

Key Product Personnel Depart TiVo | Zatz Not Funny!


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## davezatz

dbpaddler said:


> Bloggers take one person's comments, do zero digging from any other sources, and just make assumptions, draw their own biased conclusions and run with it. [...] They're purely in it for the clicks and traffic.


For what it's worth, the one person in this case was the CEO (who is generally assumed to be authoritative) and I often know more, in regards to some of the companies/products I cover, than I choose to put to paper (screen) for a whole host of reasons, including effort. Because, let me tell you, there hasn't been much money in TiVo blogging in a looooong time. Anyhow, I put the time in with the follow-up post for the sake of completeness, not all the riches that come with this job.  Although it's also incomplete for a variety of reasons, including assembling an extensive list of folks who've departed since March that deserve their privacy.

Edit: One more interesting wrinkle. I assume Jared and I both received the same Xperi PR outreach on the 10th to clarify, or 'backtrack' as Nash suggests. Not knowing what I know, I assume he asked them to expand on the statement and roadmap. Knowing what I know, I asked what the recent layoffs and realignment did or does to the roadmap. He's got a larger audience with a safer question for them to share their positive pitch, so makes perfect sense they'd invest their time communicating with him. Whereas I'm the scrappy blogger digging through Linkedin, for the story they may not want told, on your behalf. We both hopefully add value, just approach and communicate it in different ways. Although I wonder if he considers himself a blogger or journalist (or both).


----------



## NashGuy

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Agreed. But here's someone doing some digging, and it doesn't augur well...
> 
> Key Product Personnel Depart TiVo | Zatz Not Funny!


Yeah. I suspect that TiVo's CEO realized that he needed to walk back his recent comment that made it sound like the company is essentially abandoning the streaming stick business since they're still trying to sell existing stock of their TiVo Stream 4K. But honestly, given the realities of the business -- including the expectation that all new Android TV devices launching in 2022 and beyond use Google TV rather than Android TV -- combined with the personnel moves at TiVo, I'll be surprised if they do launch another retail streaming device as a follow-up to the Stream 4K. (Actually, I'll be surprised if any more TiVo retail products at all get released going forward.)

Once Walmart soon launches their own Onn Android TV 4K HDR box, it wouldn't surprise me to see the TS4K disappear from their shelves, leaving it as a device only available through online sales channels. The outlook isn't good...


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## davezatz

NashGuy said:


> Once Walmart soon launches their own Onn Android TV 4K HDR box, it wouldn't surprise me to see the TS4K disappear from their shelves, leaving it as a device only available through online sales channels. The outlook isn't good...


It was actually pretty amazing they even got it on Walmart store shelves. One of my buddies who works that aspect of the CE business, these sorts of relationships, thought it was highly unusual and TiVo must have provided big bucks up front and/or sales commissions. Then again, Walmart also stocked Boxee back in the day. Speaking of retail, as I tweeted maybe a week ago, Best Buy online is only stocking one lone TiVo product these days (Edge OTA) ... and it's on closeout.


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## NashGuy

davezatz said:


> It was actually pretty amazing they even got it on Walmart store shelves. One of my buddies who works that aspect of the CE business, these sorts of relationships, thought it was highly unusual and TiVo must have provided big bucks up front and/or sales commissions. Then again, Walmart also stocked Boxee back in the day. Speaking of retail, as I tweeted maybe a week ago, Best Buy online is only stocking one lone TiVo product these days (Edge OTA) ... and it's on closeout.


Yeah. Well, as I posted somewhere else, it seems like Walmart stocks one low-key Android TV device on their shelves at a time. Before the TS4K, they were the lone US brick-and-mortar retailer selling the Mi Box. Perhaps they're holding the new Onn box back a bit until they can clear out some more units of the TS4K. (Watch Brickseek for $19.99 blowout pricing coming soon!)

Speaking of the Edge OTA, what's your take on their decision to stop selling it themselves via TiVo.com and outsource sales to ChannelMaster? I thought that was a bit odd. (As you mention, it's also available from BB online too, but TiVo.com specifically links visitors to CM for purchase.)

Well, actually, after writing the above para, I went to TiVo.com and now the "Buy Now" button for the Edge OTA doesn't link to CM any more. It does nothing! And looks like CM is sold out of the Edge OTA with All-In. Like Best Buy, they now only have the version without service included available. My totally speculative guess is that these 2-tuner 500 GB Edge OTA units that CM and BB have been selling for the last year or so are units originally manufactured for sale in Canada (which only ever had that lesser model, as opposed to the US, where the Edge OTA originally was sold in a 4-tuner 2 TB version). But after a few months back in the Canadian market, TiVo pulled the plug on their retail efforts there.

What are the odds that there's not another production run of either the Edge for CableCARD or OTA?


----------



## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> Yeah. I suspect that TiVo's CEO realized that he needed to walk back his recent comment that made it sound like the company is essentially abandoning the streaming stick business since they're still trying to sell existing stock of their TiVo Stream 4K. But honestly, given the realities of the business -- including the expectation that all new Android TV devices launching in 2022 and beyond use Google TV rather than Android TV -- combined with the personnel moves at TiVo, I'll be surprised if they do launch another retail streaming device as a follow-up to the Stream 4K. (Actually, I'll be surprised if any more TiVo retail products at all get released going forward.)
> 
> Once Walmart soon launches their own Onn Android TV 4K HDR box, it wouldn't surprise me to see the TS4K disappear from their shelves, leaving it as a device only available through online sales channels. The outlook isn't good...


Funny thing... Why make the Onn when the dynalink was there as a low cost option?

In regards to both the dynalink and Onn, they both deserve the cheap price point. MicroUSB and no way to expand except for old school OTG which new owners won't know about. Not trying to tout the TS4k, but it at least has usb-c for cheap and easy Ethernet or storage expansion. With the other two you have to buy the the Ethernet microUSB charger or a bunch of dongles to add it. Both of which kill the cheap price. So carrying one cheapo I can see, but carrying two barebones devices that are really only $10 cheaper. Just odd to me unless there's more profit in it over the dynalink. But three cheap android streamers (four if you include the TS4k) doesn't make sense to me. At least with roku, you're hitting specific price points and feature sets. Here it's really one price point and all cheap.

And for as long as it's been taking tivo to fix all the TS4k quirks (while creating new ones along the way), why would they want to take on a new one? If the TS4k wasn't 3 steps forward two steps back month after month for things that should and need to just work, I could see a 2nd one. Building off their successful Stream, introducing the Stream 2 or whatever. But that's not the case. Who wants that headache? Introduce Gen 2 when Gen 1 still has basic bugs? If anyone would do that, I guess they would.  Were used to disappointed customers so what the hell... Throw it out there.

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


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## NashGuy

dbpaddler said:


> Funny thing... Why make the Onn when thr dynalink was there as a low cost option?
> 
> In regards to both the dynalink and Onn, they both deserve the cheap price point. MicroUSB and no way to expand except for old school OTG which new owners won't know about. Not trying to tour the TS4k, but it at least has usb-c for cheap and easy Ethernet or storage expansion. With the other two you have to buy the the Ethernet microUSB charger or a bunch of dongles to add it. Both of which kill the cheap price. So carrying one cheapo I can see, but carrying two barebones devices that are really only $10 cheaper. Just odd to me unless there's more profit in it over the dynalink. But three cheap android streamers (four if you include the TS4k) doesn't make sense to me. At least with roku, you're hitting specific price points and feature sets. Here it's really one price point and all cheap.


Well, unlike Roku, Apple or Amazon, Google's way has always been to license their OS and app ecosystem to OEMs. Note how they didn't get into the Android phone game in a serious way until the Pixel. But, with the connected streamer device market, you're right that there's not really a need for competing brands at the same feature/price point. Nvidia Shield has always had the high end of the Android TV device market. Chromecast with Google TV hits the sweet spot in the mid-range. If this Onn device really does hit the market at $30, though, it will certainly step on Chromecast's toes. About all you'll probably lose are Dolby Vision, USB-C, and Google TV. Although it looks like Apple is limiting distribution of their Apple TV app for Android TV to Google TV devices, so that's a consideration too.

Anyhow, only tech geeks care about USB-C. The *vast* majority of folks buying a $50 dongle are using wifi and not connecting storage or webcams or whatever else to it.

As for selling the Onn versus the Dynalink (which is online-only, not in Walmart stores), it's the same product, just the new remote and slightly different box casing. Same manufacturer. But if you're Walmart and trying to build your own in-house electronics brand, Onn, why not just white-label the device? And buy it bulk to get better wholesale pricing. (And axe the TS4K to reduce competition.)


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## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> Well, unlike Roku, Apple or Amazon, Google's way has always been to license their OS and app ecosystem to OEMs. Note how they didn't get into the Android phone game in a serious way until the Pixel. But, with the connected streamer device market, you're right that there's not really a need for competing brands at the same feature/price point. Nvidia Shield has always had the high end of the Android TV device market. Chromecast with Google TV hits the sweet spot in the mid-range. If this Onn device really does hit the market at $30, though, it will certainly step on Chromecast's toes. About all you'll probably lose are Dolby Vision, USB-C, and Google TV. Although it looks like Apple is limiting distribution of their Apple TV app for Android TV to Google TV devices, so that's a consideration too.
> 
> Anyhow, only tech geeks care about USB-C. The *vast* majority of folks buying a $50 dongle are using wifi and not connecting storage or webcams or whatever else to it.
> 
> As for selling the Onn versus the Dynalink (which is online-only, not in Walmart stores), it's the same product, just the new remote and slightly different box casing. Same manufacturer. But if you're Walmart and trying to build your own in-house electronics brand, Onn, why not just white-label the device? And buy it bulk to get better wholesale pricing. (And axe the TS4K to reduce competition.)


Would think some besides us tech geeks would like Ethernet. And coming from teaching classes at the gym and helping others get up and running with them during Covid, I gave usb drives filled with classes to use with their tv's or streamer boxes. So I did some educating along the way. But then again, that doesn't mean they'd care down the road. And if someone like us isn't teaching them, they're only finding out about optiona if they have problems and need answers.

On the house brand side of things, I wonder when we'll see an Insignia Android tv device.. Haha.

With the likes of the Nokia and Mecool out there, why can't somebody step up and bring a mod tier streamer to the US. Give me the basic internals, bump the ram, bump the storage and give me ports. I'm about to ditch a bunch of mine and get two of the Mecool for the LR and Theater room. Could ditch all my adapters have Ethernet and storage on all and call it a day. And storage with one of the 50 microsd cards I have collecting dust. Heck, Microcenter gives them out for free every quarter.

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


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## davezatz

NashGuy said:


> Speaking of the Edge OTA, what's your take on their decision to stop selling it themselves via TiVo.com and outsource sales to ChannelMaster? I thought that was a bit odd. (As you mention, it's also available from BB online too, but TiVo.com specifically links visitors to CM for purchase.) [...] Well, actually, after writing the above para, I went to TiVo.com and now the "Buy Now" button for the Edge OTA doesn't link to CM any more. It does nothing!


Eh, I don't think about it at all really.  Seems sensible to try various retail venues and approaches to move product. And I assume those vendors are compensated for their troubles. In fact, back to TiVo bloggers and generating revenue, back when there actually were a number of bloggers covering TiVo the commission on sales was $60-100/each. Guess everyone's moved on to mattress sales these days.

To your other point, I think it's entirely possible and maybe likely they're just working through remaining DVR inventory, especially given one of the marketing folks I know who's left. But I can't say with certainty one way or another.



dbpaddler said:


> And for as long as it's been taking tivo to fix all the TS4k quirks (while creating new ones along the way), why would they want to take on a new one? If the TS4k wasn't 3 steps forward two steps back month after month for things that should and need to just work, I could see a 2nd one. Building off their successful Stream, introducing the Stream 2 or whatever. But that's not the case. Who wants that headache? Introduce Gen 2 when Gen 1 still has basic bugs? If anyone would do that, I guess they would.  Were used to disappointed customers so what the hell...


A 2-3 year lifespan for the original TiVo Stream 4K is entirely reasonable. A new one isn't needed at this time. However, the manufacturer could simply be using newer, cheaper parts or whatever. Or it could be a different SKU intended for MSO partners. In any event, given the tenor and possible misinterpretation of quarterly call, telling Jared more dongles are coming gives them some cover (with consumers and valued partner Google).


----------



## morac

I started seeing ads for the TiVo Stream 4K on TV in the last month or two. Since I skip ads almost all the time, that I saw the TiVo ads must mean they are running them fairly often. I wonder where they are getting the money to do that.


----------



## NashGuy

dbpaddler said:


> With the likes of the Nokia and Mecool out there, why can't somebody step up and bring a mod tier streamer to the US. Give me the basic internals, bump the ram, bump the storage and give me ports. I'm about to ditch a bunch of mine and get two of the Mecool for the LR and Theater room. Could ditch all my adapters have Ethernet and storage on all and call it a day. And storage with one of the 50 microsd cards I have collecting dust. Heck, Microcenter gives them out for free every quarter.


Those additional ports are the only difference in the new Mecook box vs. the Onn. Internal chipset, RAM and storage are the same, remote is the same.

I used to care about ethernet until I started using 5 GHz AC wifi on my Apple TV 4K. The router is like three feet from it, ha. It's made absolutely zero difference. Speed tests as well as real-world performance, even with OTA MPEG-2 live TV, has been exactly the same since I switched a few months ago.

Having ports for storage (USB drive or SD card) would be nice if I wanted to use an Android TV device as an OTA DVR. Although Google's Live Channels solution for that is sorta one of their neglected experiments. Maybe they'll bring something like that to the Live tab built into the new Google TV UI but, given their growing YTTV business, I kinda doubt it.


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## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> Those additional ports are the only difference in the new Mecook box vs. the Onn. Internal chipset, RAM and storage are the same, remote is the same.
> 
> I used to care about ethernet until I started using 5 GHz AC wifi on my Apple TV 4K. The router is like three feet from it, ha. It's made absolutely zero difference. Speed tests as well as real-world performance, even with OTA MPEG-2 live TV, has been exactly the same since I switched a few months ago.
> 
> Having ports for storage (USB drive or SD card) would be nice if I wanted to use an Android TV device as an OTA DVR. Although Google's Live Channels solution for that is sorta one of their neglected experiments. Maybe they'll bring something like that to the Live tab built into the new Google TV UI but, given their growing YTTV business, I kinda doubt it.


Well for me I have my classes locally stored and a card slot is as easy as it gets to have them on the device. My router is not nearby, and my whole house is wired for Ethernet thanks to opening up some walls. So why go wifi when I don't have to? I don't like being limited because a mfg's product makes me. I already have to do that with my phone. I don't care to let the trend continue and trickle into other products as well.

And yes, that's why I said a mid grade product. Majority don't need a processor spec bump. But adding the ports is just convenient. I would imagine at some point mecool will come out with a version that has 4gb ram and more storage. Their other boxes have variations.

There is also reason Reddit and other communities are littered with threads about dongles and adding to these devices. And in some cases, it almost ends up being easier to justify the Shield tube.

And like many others who have left tivo for Channels, more on board storage is helpful. Especially for the buffer.

If the Nokia or Mecool were available locally for $65 how many tech geeks do you think would be buying them over the ccgtv and TS4k? Would imagine, many. I wouldn't spend $100 more for the Shield, but I'd easily justify an extra $20-25, especially if I don't need dongles, adapters and can make use of the plethora of cards I have. And I would imagine most non apple people have a collection of microsd cards collecting dust.

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


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## NashGuy

dbpaddler said:


> If the Nokia or Mecool were available locally for $65 how many tech geeks do you think would be buying them over the ccgtv and TS4k? Would imagine, many.


I think all of us have a tendency to think that there are a lot more folks out there like "us" than there actually are. I suspect that the market for Android TV devices with specs and pricing somewhere in between the CCGTV and Nvidia Shield TV tube isn't big enough to matter.

As for your the locally stored media that you play back on your Android TV devices, why not throw all that content on a PC, Mac or NAS and use the free Plex server software and client apps? It's a bit of work to initially set up but after that it's simple.


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## Alex_7

dbpaddler said:


> Well for me I have my classes locally stored and a card slot is as easy as it gets to have them on the device. My router is not nearby, and my whole house is wired for Ethernet thanks to opening up some walls. So why go wifi when I don't have to? I don't like being limited because a mfg's product makes me. I already have to do that with my phone. I don't care to let the trend continue and trickle into other products as well.
> 
> And yes, that's why I said a mid grade product. Majority don't need a processor spec bump. But adding the ports is just convenient. I would imagine at some point mecool will come out with a version that has 4gb ram and more storage. Their other boxes have variations.
> 
> There is also reason Reddit and other communities are littered with threads about dongles and adding to these devices. And in some cases, it almost ends up being easier to justify the Shield tube.
> 
> And like many others who have left tivo for Channels, more on board storage is helpful. Especially for the buffer.
> 
> If the Nokia or Mecool were available locally for $65 how many tech geeks do you think would be buying them over the ccgtv and TS4k? Would imagine, many. I wouldn't spend $100 more for the Shield, but I'd easily justify an extra $20-25, especially if I don't need dongles, adapters and can make use of the plethora of cards I have. And I would imagine most non apple people have a collection of microsd cards collecting dust.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk







$39.99

but then again you need a otg usb hub

theres another box with a better processor than the new mecool box

Youin You-Box, analysis: Android TV and 4K at an adjusted price direct from Spain

Youin You-Box Android TV 4K Certified Streaming Device • AndroidTVBOX


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## dbpaddler

Alex_7 said:


> $39.99
> 
> but then again you need a otg usb hub
> 
> theres another box with a better processor than the new mecool box
> 
> Youin You-Box, analysis: Android TV and 4K at an adjusted price direct from Spain
> 
> Youin You-Box Android TV 4K Certified Streaming Device • AndroidTVBOX


Looks nice. $95 for me ordering from Amazon. At first I thought you meant the youin one was $40. Wonder how much real world difference there'd be for an extra $30 over the mecool.

And so not a Roku person. And I can't use one as Channels DVR doesn't support it.

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


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## Alex_7

dbpaddler said:


> Looks nice. $95 for me ordering from Amazon. At first I thought you meant the youin one was $40. Wonder how much real world difference there'd be for an extra $30 over the mecool.
> 
> And so not a Roku person. And I can't use one as Channels DVR doesn't support it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


The difference in processor might not even be noticeable. What is interesting is that these boxes still use the older android tv UI, I thought new devices were supposed to have the new google tv ui


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## dbpaddler

Alex_7 said:


> The difference in processor might not even be noticeable. What is interesting is that these boxes still use the older android tv UI, I thought new devices were supposed to have the new google tv ui


I'll happily take android tv over Google TV. One of the reasons my ccgtv collects dust.

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


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## Foogie

Alex_7 said:


> The difference in processor might not even be noticeable. What is interesting is that these boxes still use the older android tv UI, I thought new devices were supposed to have the new google tv ui


The GoogleTV interface does not benefit non-US users, all those services are not available outside US, in those countries with an established brand selling AndroidTV devices you likely will not see the CCGTV sold.


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## Foogie

dbpaddler said:


> Looks nice. $95 for me ordering from Amazon. At first I thought you meant the youin one was $40. Wonder how much real world difference there'd be for an extra $30 over the mecool.
> 
> And so not a Roku person. And I can't use one as Channels DVR doesn't support it.


The difference is it's black and does not have the 'MECOOL' name plastered on it with is too cool for me.


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## dbpaddler

Foogie said:


> The difference is it's black and does not have the 'MECOOL' name plastered on it with is too cool for me.


Yeah, the back of my TV and wall hate gaudy streaming devices... 

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


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## NashGuy

Alex_7 said:


> The difference in processor might not even be noticeable. What is interesting is that these boxes still use the older android tv UI, I thought new devices were supposed to have the new google tv ui


We're in a sort of transition period between regular Android TV and Google TV. Google said there would be some smart TVs, boxes and dongles debuting in 2021 with Google TV. So far I've only seen a few new Sony smart TVs. They said at some point in 2022, all new devices running the underlying Android TV OS would be required to have Google TV. Until then, it's not really clear what's happening. Do OEMs have a choice? Among streaming devices, is Google keeping Google TV exclusive to their new Chromecast awhile longer? Who knows.

Meanwhile, the standard Android TV homescreen recently got a makeover to look more like Google TV. See below. Has this hit the TiVo Stream 4K yet? And did Android TV's Play Next row ever start working more reliably across popular apps? (From what I've seen the Continue Watching row on Google TV is still very hit-or-miss.)

Android TV is now receiving its Google TV-inspired facelift (APK Download)


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## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> We're in a sort of transition period between regular Android TV and Google TV. Google said there would be some smart TVs, boxes and dongles debuting in 2021 with Google TV. So far I've only seen a few new Sony smart TVs. They said at some point in 2022, all new devices running the underlying Android TV OS would be required to have Google TV. Until then, it's not really clear what's happening. Do OEMs have a choice? Among streaming devices, is Google keeping Google TV exclusive to their new Chromecast awhile longer? Who knows.
> 
> Meanwhile, the standard Android TV homescreen recently got a makeover to look more like Google TV. See below. Has this hit the TiVo Stream 4K yet? And did Android TV's Play Next row ever start working more reliably across popular apps? (From what I've seen the Continue Watching row on Google TV is still very hit-or-miss.)
> 
> Android TV is now receiving its Google TV-inspired facelift (APK Download)


Nope. Not on the TS4k, and I'm. Making sure to disable updates because the minute I lose my dedicated app rows, I'm out. The only benefit of the android tv home screen is dedicated app rows and not their aggregated, paid placement, non subscribed recommended crap.

Not that I have a strong opinion on the matter. 

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


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## NashGuy

dbpaddler said:


> Nope. Not on the TS4k, and I'm. Making sure to disable updates because the minute I lose my dedicated app rows, I'm out. The only benefit of the android tv home screen is dedicated app rows and not their aggregated, paid placement, non subscribed recommended crap.
> 
> Not that I have a strong opinion on the matter.


Both the new-design Android TV homescreen (see below) as well as the Google TV homescreen have a dedicated apps row on the main tab. (On Google TV, you can switch the order of the apps and I assume you can on Android TV as well.)

It's the top row of icons on Android TV, just below the rotating content gallery, same as before. On Google TV, it's the second row of icons, below the gallery and then the "Top Picks for You" content row.








The main thing this recent update to the Android TV home screen did was to update the fonts and design language to be more consistent with Google TV and other Google products, and also add a new Discover tab, which contains those personalized recommendations you love so much.


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## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> Both the new-design Android TV homescreen (see below) as well as the Google TV homescreen have a dedicated apps row on the main tab. (On Google TV, you can switch the order of the apps and I assume you can on Android TV as well.)
> 
> It's the top row of icons on Android TV, just below the rotating content gallery, same as before. On Google TV, it's the second row of icons, below the gallery and then the "Top Picks for You" content row.
> View attachment 59861
> 
> The main thing this recent update to the Android TV home screen did was to update the fonts and design language to be more consistent with Google TV and other Google products, and also add a new Discover tab, which contains those personalized recommendations you love so much.


I haven't used my ccgtv in a few months, but I never saw dedicated app rows on it. So I guess that is new. It was always aggregated rows of content in one way, shape or form. If dedicated app rows are back, that solves one of my biggest issues.

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## wendlan

You can set it to an apps-only view as well: Google TV 'apps-only' mode cleans up the homescreen - 9to5Google

I personally leave it at the default, as the aggregated content is nice to see, but the apps are conveniently close just on the second row.


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## dbpaddler

wendlan said:


> You can set it to an apps-only view as well: Google TV 'apps-only' mode cleans up the homescreen - 9to5Google


That's no fun though. I had that on my palm pilot in the 90's. The app based rows are where it's at unless you like the aggregated content.

If it wasn't for the app row for channels dvr, I wouldn't have known the Preakness was on earlier.

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## morac

NashGuy said:


> Both the new-design Android TV homescreen (see below) as well as the Google TV homescreen have a dedicated apps row on the main tab. (On Google TV, you can switch the order of the apps and I assume you can on Android TV as well.)
> 
> It's the top row of icons on Android TV, just below the rotating content gallery, same as before. On Google TV, it's the second row of icons, below the gallery and then the "Top Picks for You" content row.
> View attachment 59861
> 
> The main thing this recent update to the Android TV home screen did was to update the fonts and design language to be more consistent with Google TV and other Google products, and also add a new Discover tab, which contains those personalized recommendations you love so much.


This got pushed out to my Sony Android TV and personally I hate it. I don't use the TV apps though so fortunately I don't have to look at it much.


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## NashGuy

dbpaddler said:


> I haven't used my ccgtv in a few months, but I never saw dedicated app rows on it. So I guess that is new. It was always aggregated rows of content in one way, shape or form. If dedicated app rows are back, that solves one of my biggest issues.


It was always there. It was in the Google TV UI screenshots from day one (see below) and it's always been there on the CCGTV that I gave my parents at Christmas. (Now, the placement of the Watchlist and Continue Watching rows is another thing. They do shift around a bit or disappear and reappear. But not the "Your Apps" row.)


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## NashGuy

morac said:


> This got pushed out to my Sony Android TV and personally I hate it. I don't use the TV apps though so fortunately I don't have to look at it much.


I don't see how the main tab is functionally any different now. They just got rid of all that wasted space on the left side of the screen with the clunky title icons for each row, e.g. Apps, Play Next, YouTube, Netflix, etc.


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## morac

NashGuy said:


> I don't see how the main tab is functionally any different now. They just got rid of all that wasted space on the left side of the screen with the clunky title icons for each row, e.g. Apps, Play Next, YouTube, Netflix, etc.


The big difference is that I used to be able to hold down the Home button on my remote and it would pop up the list of apps over whatever I was watching via HDMI. Now it goes to the App screen.

Overall though the entire Home Screen is fundamentally different that it was. Google added an advertisement area near the top. They call it promoted shows, but there's no way to disable it and it shows videos from services you don't even have apps for so I call it ads. At least they allow disabling the auto-playing video (showing thumbnails only), but that will probably be the next thing they force on users.


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## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> It was always there. It was in the Google TV UI screenshots from day one (see below) and it's always been there on the CCGTV that I gave my parents at Christmas. (Now, the placement of the Watchlist and Continue Watching rows is another thing. They do shift around a bit or disappear and reappear. But not the "Your Apps" row.)
> 
> View attachment 59877


Dude... Not the "row of apps", the dedicated app rows.... You should know the difference. You're more knowledgeable than I.

Here... 
Pic 1. Dedicated app rows on Android TV
Pic 2. Aggregated crap on Google TV

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## dbpaddler

So are you one of those that goes ape **** over the banner ad?

Do you know you can hit the down button? Just sayin'.

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## osu1991

Tried, once again this weekend, to use the TS4K on my main 4K tv. It does work so much better than it did initially and I prefer the remote and Android TV homescreen instead of the GoogleTV homescreen, but I still get the occasional stutter on Plex and Disney+ in addition to the YoutubeTV app being useless in HD. So back to my 1080p office tv it goes, for SiriusXM, Live OTA and regular Youtube.


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## dbpaddler

I'll have to check out Disney when I'm done this episode of Krypton. 

So Disney for me. No stutter, but it's not recognizing 4k. Swap to Netflix and 4k, no issue. I switch over to the ccgtv, and still no 4k on Disney. 

When I go into app settings in the app, it says highest quality available is HD. So I'm guessing this is a Disney issue which might carry over to the TS4k. And it isn't the 1st time I had a 4o issue on Disney. 

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## NashGuy

dbpaddler said:


> Dude... Not the "row of apps", the dedicated app rows.... You should know the difference. You're more knowledgeable than I.
> 
> Here...
> Pic 1. Dedicated app rows on Android TV
> Pic 2. Aggregated crap on Google TV


Ah, thought you were referring to a dedicated row of apps. Now I see what you mean: rows dedicated to content recommendations from each individual app. Funny that you actually like the recommendations made by each app as opposed to recommendations from a third-party (Google), based on your thumbs up/down ratings, with Rotten Tomatoes scores. In both the case of Google TV and Apple TV, I tend to find that they surface recommendations that are better than what the actual services are pushing themselves.

But at any rate, yeah, those content rows dedicated to each app are an Android TV thing but they don't exist on Google TV.


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## NashGuy

morac said:


> Overall though the entire Home Screen is fundamentally different that it was. Google added an advertisement area near the top.


They actually added the recommended content gallery to the old-style Android TV home screen last August, well before this latest update. Your specific model TV might have skipped over that update though.

How to turn off Android TV's homescreen ads, 'staff picks' - 9to5Google


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## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> Ah, thought you were referring to a dedicated row of apps. Now I see what you mean: rows dedicated to content recommendations from each individual app. Funny that you actually like the recommendations made by each app as opposed to recommendations from a third-party (Google), based on your thumbs up/down ratings, with Rotten Tomatoes scores. In both the case of Google TV and Apple TV, I tend to find that they surface recommendations that are better than what the actual services are pushing themselves.
> 
> But at any rate, yeah, those content rows dedicated to each app are an Android TV thing but they don't exist on Google TV.


I think you're naive if you think thats all Google's is. I'm pretty sure hbo paid for placement on their homescreen as they made up well over 25% of the content shown for thr longest time. I wouldn't be surprised if other services paid for placement as well. So I don't believe you when you say that's how they source the content shown.

And, I've never gotten the amount of content listed to be anywhere under 50% from services I don't pay for. And I'm not about to add new paid services just because I see something I might like from a service I don't subscribe to.

While the dedicated app ones would have things from my watch list, something I'm currently watching as well as recommended shows/movies.

Not to mention, as I already mentioned, for Channels DVR it shows what's currently on which is the only way I stumbled on to watching the Preakness and have caught a sixers or Phillies game when I didn't realize they were on.

I would also lose that with tivo stream which is why I don't care for their app either.

Linear TV still matters to me. And I lose that with Google and aggregated content rows.

It also ends up being like Netflix now where they just make it difficult, as in lots of scrolling, to get to what you want at that point in time. I remember when Netflix would make your watch list front and center. Now it's just inintuitive to get to it.

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## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> They actually added the recommended content gallery to the old-style Android TV home screen last August, well before this latest update. Your specific model TV might have skipped over that update though.
> 
> How to turn off Android TV's homescreen ads, 'staff picks' - 9to5Google


Sony tv's were late to the party. I find it funny owners pretty much ignored all the hoopla when it was announced back then even though it was mentioned it would eventually come. And now they act like it came out of nowhere, just a big shock. And now they're all up in arms, blah blah blah.

No credibility. If you can't fight the fight when it is an issue all around and only when it's on your front door, go pound sand. And besides, hit the down button and it goes away and your rows of whatever are there. Much ado about nothing except a reason to whine. And if you poke around Reddit you'd think Google raped their wives and stolen their children. It's laughable the vitriol they spill over a banner ad. And they haven't even migrated to Google TV yet. Because if they hate one banner ad, wait until all the recommended content comes from services they don't pay for, and as I contend, content that's paid to be placed on the home screen too. It only gets worse for them.

But there is no ad free alternative. No service is immune. Google Roku, Amazon, Apple, webOS, Tizen. They all have ads to whatever degree. To think these companies aren't going to monetize their service how they see fit is just naive.

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## morac

dbpaddler said:


> Sony tv's were late to the party. I find it funny owners pretty much ignored all the hoopla when it was announced back then even though it was mentioned it would eventually come. And now they act like it came out of nowhere, just a big shock. And now they're all up in arms, blah blah blah.
> 
> No credibility. If you can't fight the fight when it is an issue all around and only when it's on your front door, go pound sand. And besides, hit the down button and it goes away and your rows of whatever are there. Much ado about nothing except a reason to whine. And if you poke around Reddit you'd think Google raped their wives and stolen their children. It's laughable the vitriol they spill over a banner ad. And they haven't even migrated to Google TV yet. Because if they hate one banner ad, wait until all the recommended content comes from services they don't pay for, and as I contend, content that's paid to be placed on the home screen too. It only gets worse for them.
> 
> But there is no ad free alternative. No service is immune. Google Roku, Amazon, Apple, webOS, Tizen. They all have ads to whatever degree. To think these companies aren't going to monetize their service how they see fit is just naive.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


That's because unlike other devices that were dirt cheap because Google subsidized them, Sony TV users paid thousands for their TVs only to then have Google force ads on them. Imagine you bought an expensive laptop and a year later your wall paper was changed and locked to show ads.

Also except for the most recent models, Sony TVs have unpowered CPUs and not a lot of memory so the new screen actually slows down the TV (I need to watch ads now to get into my TV's settings) and in some cases causes it to reboot.

Fortunately I mainly use my Apple TV for video which doesn't have ads plastered on the Home Screen.


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## dbpaddler

morac said:


> That's because unlike other devices that were dirt cheap because Google subsidized them, Sony TV users paid thousands for their TVs only to then have Google force ads on them. Imagine you bought an expensive laptop and a year later your wall paper was changed and locked to show ads.
> 
> Also except for the most recent models, Sony TVs have unpowered CPUs and not a lot of memory so the new screen actually slows down the TV (I need to watch ads now to get into my TV's settings) and in some cases causes it to reboot.


You bought a TV based on the quality of the TV. The Google aspect just came with it, and the only control Sony has of it is when they push updates which everyone and their brother knows they are extremely slow to do so. But you do know updates will come. And here, you had plenty of warning the banner ad was coming.

And given the fact that you can't buy a device be it a TV or streaming box without its OS having ads, I don't see what the beef is.

You're trying to say you bought a thousand dollar streaming box that didn't have ads. So you're argument is down to cost which doesn't make sense. It's irrelevant whether it was 40 or 1000. And if you really bought the Sony for its Google OS sans ads, you knowingly bought a TV with underpowered internals that will become an issue at some point as do all devices who's secondary functions being smart. Why I have no incentive to buy a fridge or microwave with a smart screen. Because that aspect will be obsolete while the appliance continues to do its primary function. Heck, Disney+ pretty much made many smart tv's obsolete when they came out.

It's not like you'd buy a bargain basement tcl if it had a streamer interface that didn't have a banner ad because the panel sucks in comparison with your Sony.

So again, no streaming OS is without ads at this stage. This is the world we live in. You might as well complain to a brick wall because the results will be the same. You have no recourse, period. The grass isn't really greener in another ecosystem since they all have ads. At least Google is much cleaner than a few of the others. And again, I know it's hard and taxing, but using your thumb to hit down on the d-pad makes it go away.

If you get a harmony remote you can even add that to the macro so your homescreen shows up already down a level without the banner ad.

And as mentioned, the banner ad is just the tip of the spear. Wait until Sony updates to Google TV. You might need meds, and you still won't have any recourse. Have fun with that.

So either try the uninstall updates and disable automatic updates, side load an old launcher and disable, or go with a 3rd party launcher and live with app icons and a pretty wallpaper of your choice. Of course you lose any cool features you actually did like on the official home screens.

Underpowered? Well disable all the animations and anything that tries to make it look prettier. Always helps to dumb down the UI on underpowered devices.

People don't want advertising, but they also don't want to pay a premium for anything either. Advertising pays the bills and makes them money. If it wasn't for advertising, broadcast TV wouldn't exist, the cost for streaming a lot of content would be much greater, and people would balk at that. This seems to be the part ad haters gloss over. So it's always a cat and mouse game. Here's ads. Here's a way to circumvent them. Here's a more staunch ad experience. We we can kind of work around that too. We'll here are ads baked into core of the screen, good luck this go around.

Advertising is like death and taxes.

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## Alex_7

NashGuy said:


> We're in a sort of transition period between regular Android TV and Google TV. Google said there would be some smart TVs, boxes and dongles debuting in 2021 with Google TV. So far I've only seen a few new Sony smart TVs. They said at some point in 2022, all new devices running the underlying Android TV OS would be required to have Google TV. Until then, it's not really clear what's happening. Do OEMs have a choice? Among streaming devices, is Google keeping Google TV exclusive to their new Chromecast awhile longer? Who knows.
> 
> Meanwhile, the standard Android TV homescreen recently got a makeover to look more like Google TV. See below. Has this hit the TiVo Stream 4K yet? And did Android TV's Play Next row ever start working more reliably across popular apps? (From what I've seen the Continue Watching row on Google TV is still very hit-or-miss.)
> 
> Android TV is now receiving its Google TV-inspired facelift (APK Download)


My parents' TCL android TV got this update months ago, I was surprised to see it on a TCL tv.


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## Alex_7

NashGuy said:


> Ah, thought you were referring to a dedicated row of apps. Now I see what you mean: rows dedicated to content recommendations from each individual app. Funny that you actually like the recommendations made by each app as opposed to recommendations from a third-party (Google), based on your thumbs up/down ratings, with Rotten Tomatoes scores. In both the case of Google TV and Apple TV, I tend to find that they surface recommendations that are better than what the actual services are pushing themselves.
> 
> But at any rate, yeah, those content rows dedicated to each app are an Android TV thing but they don't exist on Google TV.


My google tv constantly recommends me the same content over and over its annoying. They really need to add more features to their google tv interface, there hasn't been any new updates to google tv since its release. We need a way to mark episodes as watched. There needs to be a way to view your watchlist in a grid view instead of just one horizontal row. There's no way to sort your watchlist. I would like to see more "If you liked (movie title)" recommendation rows.


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## dbpaddler

Alex_7 said:


> My google tv constantly recommends me the same content over and over its annoying. They really need to add more features to their google tv interface, there hasn't been any new updates to google tv since its release. We need a way to mark episodes as watched. There needs to be a way to view your watchlist in a grid view instead of just one horizontal row. There's no way to sort your watchlist. I would like to see more "If you liked (movie title)" recommendation rows.


That's why I think there is a lot of paid placement content in the recommendations if the same things pop up over and over.

And I can see some of those things coming to light as it evolves. It's still new in that respect.

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## NashGuy

dbpaddler said:


> I think you're naive if you think thats all Google's is. I'm pretty sure hbo paid for placement on their homescreen as they made up well over 25% of the content shown for thr longest time. I wouldn't be surprised if other services paid for placement as well. So I don't believe you when you say that's how they source the content shown.
> 
> And, I've never gotten the amount of content listed to be anywhere under 50% from services I don't pay for. And I'm not about to add new paid services just because I see something I might like from a service I don't subscribe to.


Google labels paid ads in the Google TV and Android TV UIs with the word "Ad". It's only one or two of the featured titles in the rotating content gallery at the top.

In my experience, if you designate in the Google TV settings which services you subscribe to, the *vast* majority of recommended titles on the main For You tab are from those services, plus certain free ad-supported services like Tubi and YouTube. That doesn't apply to the "Trending on Google" row, which is fine, as the purpose there is to see what's popular across all services (akin to looking at Nielsen's top-rated shows this week). But other than that row, only maybe 10% of recommendations are titles that would require additional payment (another subscription or title-specific purchase/rental). And because I rated a lot of stuff with thumbs up or thumbs down, and designated certain titles are previously watched, their recommendations have been pretty good. I've never noticed it really pushing any particular service other than the ones I designate as currently subscribed to. (That said, you're not going to see any Netflix Originals recommended since Netflix won't allow their participation in the Google TV system.)

Anyhow, that's been my experience. Not saying it's anyone else's.


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## NashGuy

dbpaddler said:


> That's why I think there is a lot of paid placement content in the recommendations if the same things pop up over and over.


One of the things I notice is that the Google TV recommendations I see from services I subscribe to are often NOT the big new titles that the service itself is broadly pushing but rather picks that seem to better match my tastes. Which to me suggests that these are not paid ads.

Now, the rotating gallery at the top is different -- I believe it's the same for all users and not tailored to your subscriptions or tastes. It typically has one pick each from multiple different services, mainly things I don't subscribe to such as Disney+, Apple TV+ and Prime Video. One or two will be labelled as an ad. I recently saw an ad there for the overall discovery+ service (not even one particular title on it) and it launched an auto-play video if you hovered on it. Outside of those one or two labelled ads, the other cards in the carousel will be labelled as Google Staff Picks, which are often sort of random choices. For instance, I remember the movie "I Used to Go Here" from HBO Max being a featured staff pick in the top gallery for awhile. It's a small movie that I don't think I ever saw on HBO Max's own home screen and certainly never saw advertised anywhere, ever. Seems unlikely to me that was a paid ad by HBO Max.

But by featuring content from multiple different subscription services in that gallery, you can see how that benefits Google because they're hoping you'll click to sign up for some of those services via Google Play and Google will get a cut of the recurring subscription fees. That's the point of those "Staff Picks," not getting ad revenue from the underlying service. That's also the point of the small percentage of Google recommendations in the rows below that belong to services you don't subscribe to. But as someone who tends to shift between subscription services every few months, I'm fine with seeing what's good on services I don't have at the moment.


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## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> One of the things I notice is that the Google TV recommendations I see from services I subscribe to are often NOT the big new titles that the service itself is broadly pushing but rather picks that seem to better match my tastes. Which to me suggests that these are not paid ads.
> 
> Now, the rotating gallery at the top is different -- I believe it's the same for all users and not tailored to your subscriptions or tastes. It typically has one pick each from multiple different services, mainly things I don't subscribe to such as Disney+, Apple TV+ and Prime Video. One or two will be labelled as an ad. I recently saw an ad there for the overall discovery+ service (not even one particular title on it) and it launched an auto-play video if you hovered on it. Outside of those one or two labelled ads, the other cards in the carousel will be labelled as Google Staff Picks, which are often sort of random choices. For instance, I remember the movie "I Used to Go Here" from HBO Max being a featured staff pick in the top gallery for awhile. It's a small movie that I don't think I ever saw on HBO Max's own home screen and certainly never saw advertised anywhere, ever. Seems unlikely to me that was a paid ad by HBO Max.
> 
> But by featuring content from multiple different subscription services in that gallery, you can see how that benefits Google because they're hoping you'll click to sign up for some of those services via Google Play and Google will get a cut of the recurring subscription fees. That's the point of those "Staff Picks," not getting ad revenue from the underlying service. That's also the point of the small percentage of Google recommendations in the rows below that belong to services you don't subscribe to. But as someone who tends to shift between subscription services every few months, I'm fine with seeing what's good on services I don't have at the moment.


The key phrase is "of the services I subscribe to". I'll say it yet again. Content for services I subscribe to is barely 50% of what's on my home screen. So no, it's not a "small percentage"

I get how things benefit Google. I'm not complaining like moria or whatever his name is. I really don't care because I don't really use my ccgtv. I like my dedicated app "rows" so I use my TS4k.

My point was for the people that are *****ing and moaning about tur banner ad, it is only going to get worse when they have to deal with the Google TV homescreen over the android tv one.

I don't shift. Glad it works for you. I'm not complaining about it. Some like pure aggregated content, some don't. I'm just prepping the banner complainers and those that think they are entitled to an ad free experience that their world is only going to get worse, not better as things progress.

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## NashGuy

dbpaddler said:


> The key phrase is "of the services I subscribe to". I'll say it yet again. Content for services I subscribe to is barely 50% of what's on my home screen. So no, it's not a "small percentage"


As I said, I can only report how it works on mine. (Well, actually, it's my parents but I set it up and have used it a lot at their house.) Very few recommendations, 10% or less of the total on the For You tab, outside of the 2-3 services they subscribe to.


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## Alex_7

I wish there were a way to "refresh" your recommendations, you are stuck with the same ones for a whole day.


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## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> As I said, I can only report how it works on mine. (Well, actually, it's my parents but I set it up and have used it a lot at their house.) Very few recommendations, 10% or less of the total on the For You tab, outside of the 2-3 services they subscribe to.


I haven't done the tab thing. Have to look at the pic I sent before. Not due eif I even saw tabs, and I refreshed my update button four or five times over a few hours. First time it got used in a month or two.

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## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> As I said, I can only report how it works on mine. (Well, actually, it's my parents but I set it up and have used it a lot at their house.) Very few recommendations, 10% or less of the total on the For You tab, outside of the 2-3 services they subscribe to.


And I thought your prediction might be coming true... In a Google search for the TS4k... But nothing like that comes up after clicking on it.









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## Alex_7

@ 8:50 he discusses home screen channels, he states that they will only be "shown in markets where we don't have enough information about content to power the full google tv experience, that means they're not going to show up in markets like the US"

But homescreen channels will still continue to be shown on non Google tv devices, he mentions that android tv home channels are still an important integration for the Android tv experience.

So it looks like there will still be some Android TV(non google tv) devices made in the US markets with the home screen channels we are used to seeing. Not every android tv device in the future will have Google TV


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## NashGuy

dbpaddler said:


> And I thought your prediction might be coming true... In a Google search for the TS4k... But nothing like that comes up after clicking on it.


Ha! I get a prediction right now and then. Looks like Walmart stores have already blown out their TS4K inventory with a $19 clearance price. When I use Brickseek.com and check Walmarts in various zip codes, it either brings back no results for that product, or it shows a store with it listed at $19 but out of stock.










That said, you can still add it to the cart on Walmart.com for $39. Wonder if they'll mark those down too?

EDIT: I do see that when you attempt to purchase from Walmart.com for $39, it will offer store pick-up options at locations that Brickseek seems to think do not have any units. My advice for anyone interested in buying a TS4K is to go to a local Walmart and see if they have any in stock and if they're marked down to $19 in store. If they aren't yet, I bet they soon will be.


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## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> Ha! I get a prediction right now and then. Looks like Walmart stores have already blown out their TS4K inventory with a $19 clearance price. When I use Brickseek.com and check Walmarts in various zip codes, it either brings back no results for that product, or it shows a store with it listed at $19 but out of stock.
> 
> View attachment 59934
> 
> 
> That said, you can still add it to the cart on Walmart.com for $39. Wonder if they'll mark those down too?
> 
> EDIT: I do see that when you attempt to purchase from Walmart.com for $39, it will offer store pick-up options at locations that Brickseek seems to think do not have any units. My advice for anyone interested in buying a TS4K is to go to a local Walmart and see if they have any in stock and if they're marked down to $19 in store. If they aren't yet, I bet they soon will be.


Yeah, I didn't get anything on brickseek in the Philly area to post. But definitely worth a look if anyone is in the market and has stock in their area. Usually the only way to get clearance store items online is if it's clearance on the website too. Have played a lot of Walmart clearance games with brickseek in the past.

Sometimes you can also get lucky if brickseek shows the clearance price in your store, and you can buy it at full price for store pickup (not ship to store), you can ask when you pick it up to pay with a different card (better warranty, cashback or whatever reason), and then it'll ring up at the clearance price if BS was correct.

Brickseek link: TiVo Stream 4K - Every Streaming App and Live TV on One Screen - 4K UHD, Dolby Vision HDR and Dolby Atmos Sound - Powered by Android TV - Plug-in Smart TV - Walmart Inventory Checker - BrickSeek

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## dbpaddler

Alex_7 said:


> @ 8:50 he discusses home screen channels, he states that they will only be "shown in markets where we don't have enough information about content to power the full google tv experience, that means they're not going to show up in markets like the US"
> 
> But homescreen channels will still continue to be shown on non Google tv devices, he mentions that android tv home channels are still an important integration for the Android tv experience.
> 
> So it looks like there will still be some Android TV(non google tv) devices made in the US markets with the home screen channels we are used to seeing. Not every android tv device in the future will have Google TV


Thays good to know. A shame you can't pick and choose so regardless of device, users could have the experience that best works for them. And at least knowing the android tv home screen will stick around, it should always be easy to find a version to sideload if need be.

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## Alex_7

Hisense has no immediate plans to adopt Google TV - 9to5Google

So it looks like each brand gets the choice to adopt google tv or not


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## Phil T

NashGuy said:


> Ha! I get a prediction right now and then. Looks like Walmart stores have already blown out their TS4K inventory with a $19 clearance price. When I use Brickseek.com and check Walmarts in various zip codes, it either brings back no results for that product, or it shows a store with it listed at $19 but out of stock.
> 
> View attachment 59934
> 
> 
> That said, you can still add it to the cart on Walmart.com for $39. Wonder if they'll mark those down too?
> 
> EDIT: I do see that when you attempt to purchase from Walmart.com for $39, it will offer store pick-up options at locations that Brickseek seems to think do not have any units. My advice for anyone interested in buying a TS4K is to go to a local Walmart and see if they have any in stock and if they're marked down to $19 in store. If they aren't yet, I bet they soon will be.


I was in Walmart today and they had loads of the TS4K but all marked at $39.00. I asked a clerk to scan one to check the price. It scanned at $39.00. I told him I heard they were clearing them out at $19. He said that they just got a bunch in and I am probably right, but at least at his store not yet.


----------



## dbpaddler

Phil T said:


> I was in Walmart today and they had loads of the TS4K but all marked at $39.00. I asked a clerk to scan one to check the price. It scanned at $39.00. I told him I heard they were clearing them out at $19. He said that they just got a bunch in and I am probably right, but at least at his store not yet.


Just keep checking BS to see when the price changes.

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


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## NashGuy

Alex_7 said:


> Hisense has no immediate plans to adopt Google TV - 9to5Google
> 
> So it looks like each brand gets the choice to adopt google tv or not


Well, as that article states, "Google previously said that the new experience would be a requirement on consumer products starting in 2022." So I think the original plan was to give OEMs the choice whether or not to use Google TV on devices launching this year. Note that Hisense didn't have any comment about their future models launching in 2022 and after.

Unless and until we hear something different, I still think that all Android TV devices launched after some point in 2022 in the US will feature Google TV rather than the new Android TV "Discover" UI. Hopefully we see some improvements to the overall Google TV system before then.


----------



## Consultant

Vm19 said:


> As people have said here, there is no reason to get this device over the Chromecast with Google TV. I wonder how long they're going to support the device. I hope they communicate their plans soon.


I completely disagree with this statement based on extensive use of both devices. The CCWGTV only edges out the TS4K if you are subscribing to YouTube TV for you Live TV Streaming services, AND, you don't care about including channels from free live TV servcies like Pluto. Google wants to keep you fenced into THEIR TV ecosystem with their own devices, of course.

Unfortunately, the problem is the reverse on the TS4K as it doesn't intergrate the YouTube TV Channels into the guide, but does integrate everything else. If you are a Sling+Locast+Pluto/etc user, the TS4K is a no-brainer.

Also what NashGuy mentioned...

"One thing the TiVo Stream app has going for it is that it integrates all of Netflix's content into its cross-app watchlist. A huge chunk of streaming happens on Netflix and, as far as I know, no other major streaming integrator works with Netflix original content. I know the TV app on Apple TV, as well as the new Google TV system do not."


----------



## morac

NashGuy said:


> Well, as that article states, "Google previously said that the new experience would be a requirement on consumer products starting in 2022." So I think the original plan was to give OEMs the choice whether or not to use Google TV on devices launching this year. Note that Hisense didn't have any comment about their future models launching in 2022 and after.
> 
> Unless and until we hear something different, I still think that all Android TV devices launched after some point in 2022 in the US will feature Google TV rather than the new Android TV "Discover" UI. Hopefully we see some improvements to the overall Google TV system before then.


I also think Google forced it on OEMs. Sony had said they weren't going to update older TVs from Android Oreo to Pie (9) because it was too difficult.

Sony on why Android Pie TV update isn't coming to some Bravia smart TVs

Then out of the blue nearly a year later, they started updating said models to Pie.

In an effort to forget 2020, Sony brings Android 9 Pie to select TVs

I'm pretty sure one of the changes was this allowed Google to update Android TV without having to go through OEMs as my TV got the Home Screen changes without getting an update from Sony. I'm guessing they can also update from Android TV to Google TV too. As such I'm guessing Google helped Sony get Pie out there.


----------



## NashGuy

morac said:


> I also think Google forced it on OEMs. Sony had said they weren't going to update older TVs from Android Oreo to Pie (9) because it was too difficult.
> 
> Sony on why Android Pie TV update isn't coming to some Bravia smart TVs
> 
> Then out of the blue nearly a year later, they started updating said models to Pie.
> 
> In an effort to forget 2020, Sony brings Android 9 Pie to select TVs
> 
> I'm pretty sure one of the changes was this allowed Google to update Android TV without having to go through OEMs as my TV got the Home Screen changes without getting an update from Sony. I'm guessing they can also update from Android TV to Google TV too. As such I'm guessing Google helped Sony get Pie out there.


The home screen (or launcher) has long (always?) been changeable/updatable apart from the underlying Android OS -- it's essentially just an app. At least that's true on mobile; I think it's the same with Android TV.

At any rate, to update the actual OS, e.g. to go from Android TV 8 to 9, or 9 to 10, that definitely still requires the cooperation of the OEM. Google can't do it alone, unless they're the OEM, as with the Chromecast with Google TV. Google TV requires at least Android TV 10. It will be interesting to see if at some point in the future Google unilaterally changes the home screen launcher on Android TV 10 devices (such as this year's Hisense smart TVs) from the standard Android TV UI to Google TV. There's no technical reason they couldn't, it would just be a matter of whether the licensing agreement with the OEM precludes Google from doing that.


----------



## Alex_7

Consultant said:


> I completely disagree with this statement based on extensive use of both devices. The CCWGTV only edges out the TS4K if you are subscribing to YouTube TV for you Live TV Streaming services, AND, you don't care about including channels from free live TV servcies like Pluto. Google wants to keep you fenced into THEIR TV ecosystem with their own devices, of course.
> 
> Unfortunately, the problem is the reverse on the TS4K as it doesn't intergrate the YouTube TV Channels into the guide, but does integrate everything else. If you are a Sling+Locast+Pluto/etc user, the TS4K is a no-brainer.
> 
> Also what NashGuy mentioned...
> 
> "One thing the TiVo Stream app has going for it is that it integrates all of Netflix's content into its cross-app watchlist. A huge chunk of streaming happens on Netflix and, as far as I know, no other major streaming integrator works with Netflix original content. I know the TV app on Apple TV, as well as the new Google TV system do not."


Reelgood and Justwatch both include Netflix originals in their integration.


----------



## morac

NashGuy said:


> The home screen (or launcher) has long (always?) been changeable/updatable apart from the underlying Android OS -- it's essentially just an app. At least that's true on mobile; I think it's the same with Android TV.
> 
> At any rate, to update the actual OS, e.g. to go from Android TV 8 to 9, or 9 to 10, that definitely still requires the cooperation of the OEM. Google can't do it alone, unless they're the OEM, as with the Chromecast with Google TV. Google TV requires at least Android TV 10. It will be interesting to see if at some point in the future Google unilaterally changes the home screen launcher on Android TV 10 devices (such as this year's Hisense smart TVs) from the standard Android TV UI to Google TV. There's no technical reason they couldn't, it would just be a matter of whether the licensing agreement with the OEM precludes Google from doing that.


I think in the older Android versions the Home Screen app changes were more limited. I'm guessing Google TV requires at least Pie.

And yes, Google does require OEM cooperation, but Google can also dictate terms. I once read that Android TV OEMs agree to support 2 Android TV upgrades.

My TV started with N and got O and then Sony said they wouldn't update to P because it was too hard and then they did. Someone said it was because of those contracts. Likely Google helped. It's also likely why Sony isn't fixing the HDMI bugs they introduced in that update because they don't know how and it doesn't affect Google so they don't care.


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## NashGuy

morac said:


> I think in the older Android versions the Home Screen app changes were more limited.


There was one major change several years ago from the original Android TV home screen (see below) to the one used on the TS4K when it launched last year. And then that second version got the rotating graphical banner of recommended titles/ads added to the top. And then that whole thing recently got a makeover and the addition of the Discover tab.










But unless the OEM somehow blocked it, the user could always side load a new home screen launcher and customize things.

[Best] Android TV Launcher Apps that You Can Use - GEEKY SOUMYA



morac said:


> I'm guessing Google TV requires at least Pie.


I'm pretty sure it requires at least Android TV 10 (the version after Pie), which is what the CCGTV launched with. Given that Android TV 12 was just released in beta and the final version of 11 was released late last year, you'd think Google would've updated their own device to 11 by now...


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## morac

NashGuy said:


> There was one major change several years ago from the original Android TV home screen (see below) to the one used on the TS4K when it launched last year. And then that second version got the rotating graphical banner of recommended titles/ads added to the top. And then that whole thing recently got a makeover and the addition of the Discover tab.


That's the version my TV had when I got it. It was updated to the version with the Up Next at the top when Sony pushed out the update to Oreo. As such it doesn't seem like Google could update it by simply updating an app.

After that, it seems like the Home Screen could be slightly modified by Google, but only by adding a promo app which was a banner, but wasn't fixed at the top and could be turned off.

Once my TV update to Pie, Google was able to significantly change the Home Screen without Sony pushing out an update, so at that point the Home Screen appeared to be all app.


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## dbpaddler

Bah... You don't know how good you have it until you're stuck with this old and not updatable mess...









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## Foogie

NashGuy said:


> I'm pretty sure it requires at least Android TV 10 (the version after Pie), which is what the CCGTV launched with. Given that Android TV 12 was just released in beta and the final version of 11 was released late last year, you'd think Google would've updated their own device to 11 by now...


People have sideloaded GTV on the TS4k and I think the most recent updates about 3 weeks ago to Home and other related apps include the GTV UI it just needs to be switched on server side just like the banner ad which is regional.


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## scottchez

Is this a Sign?
Sling is not even working working with Tivo anymore.
The brand new Sling GUI coming soon is going to FireTV first, not Tivo.
Did they get into a fight or is Tivo really dropping support and updates if this device like the title in this thread suggests.
Also the $19 clearance price at Walmart is interesting.
I still love the remote, maybe they should just sell remotes for FireTV and Roku with hot buttons like for sling and netflix?


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## dbpaddler

scottchez said:


> Is this a Sign?
> Sling is not even working working with Tivo anymore.
> The brand new Sling GUI coming soon is going to FireTV first, not Tivo.
> Did they get into a fight or is Tivo really dropping support and updates if this device like the title in this thread suggests.
> Also the $19 clearance price at Walmart is interesting.
> I still love the remote, maybe they should just sell remotes for FireTV and Roku with hot buttons like for sling and netflix?


You mean firetv first, not "Google". Tivo isn't responsible for the sling app's UI.

And tivo is not dropping support. And Walmart is clearing it out because they have their own branded device now under the Onn name. Pretty sure that will be more profitable than the TS4k was for them.

Sent from my Surface Duo using Tapatalk


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## cwoody222

Get into a fight?

Nothing about their partnership was ever “TiVo gets the best stuff before anyone else!”

The FireTV installed userbase is much larger than TiVo’s, it makes sense for Sling to start there.

Or maybe TiVo couldn’t commit to the timeframe?

Again, the sky is not falling.

As for selling remotes, that would be a niche of a niche. What’s the percentage of $50 streaming box buyers who want a new remote? Like single digit?

Has the $19 Walmart price actually been seen by anyone in person (not on a website marked out of stock)?


----------



## dbpaddler

Both of you make zero sense, zero. You'll grasp at anything to blame tivo. I bet they caused Covid too.

The TS4k is an "android tv" device. The app is an android app from the Android play store designed by Roku. There is zero tivo involvement in the app. It's an android thing, period. So the Android tv app isn't getting updated. Not the tivo sling app. Get a clue. Geeze. 

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## dbpaddler

And someone in this thread would actually have to look it up on brickseek and even see if there is stock in their area, and then go to the actual store. Considering most here already have what they need, and it's not a big moneymaker to resell, I doubt anyone here is going to confirm it. But I've been in enough Walmart clearance deals from brickseek to know they exist and it's not just FUD. If you care enough, go search for it on slickdeals. I'm sure there's a thread there tallikg about it. I have three already and my area is sold out of them.

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## cwoody222

I don't know if you're talking about me but I'm not blaming TiVo. And I understand the apps.

I believe the comment above mine had moved on from talking about Android/Google TV and was talking about this:
https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/sling-tv-will-be-rolling-out-a-new-look-on-amazon-fire-tvs/


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## NashGuy

Foogie said:


> People have sideloaded GTV on the TS4k and I think the most recent updates about 3 weeks ago to Home and other related apps include the GTV UI it just needs to be switched on server side just like the banner ad which is regional.


Maybe my recollection about GTV being dependent on Android TV 10 is that Google has indicated that they'll only allow OEMs to use GTV with Android TV 10 or later, not necessarily because it's a technical requirement but for whatever other reasons that Google has.

That said, I'm not sure that GTV, when sideloaded on the TS4K, is fully functional. So maybe there are certain APIs it uses that depend on Android TV 10?


----------



## dbpaddler

cwoody222 said:


> I don't know if you're talking about me but I'm not blaming TiVo. And I understand the apps.
> 
> I believe the comment above mine had moved on from talking about Android/Google TV and was talking about this:
> Sling TV Will Be Rolling Out a New Look on Amazon Fire TVs | Cord Cutters News


He said Roku is getting it, not tivo. And I know what he was referring to. Apple already got the update.

And do we know for a fact sling isn't working with tivo anymore in regards to the integration or is it just a glitch? I haven't read anything about it not working because they're not working with tivo anymore. Then again, I don't use sling so I'm not looking for it.

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## cwoody222

dbpaddler said:


> And do we know for a fact sling isn't working with tivo anymore in regards to the integration or is it just a glitch? I haven't read anything about it not working because they're not working with tivo anymore.


Right. That was my entire point.

scottchez suggested that just because FireTV's are getting it "first", that TiVo won't at all or that it is because TiVo and Sling have parted ways.

Both of which are huge leaps just from the simple fact that FireTV may be getting something "first".

People are just looking at every tiny detail to convince themselves and others that TiVo is about to close up shop any day now.


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## dbpaddler

cwoody222 said:


> Right. That was my entire point.
> 
> scottchez suggested that just because FireTV's are getting it "first", that TiVo won't at all or that it is because TiVo and Sling have parted ways.
> 
> Both of which are huge leaps just from the simple fact that FireTV may be getting something "first".
> 
> People are just looking at every tiny detail to convince themselves and others that TiVo is about to close up shop any day now.


And they are always quick to blame tivo, that they are the root cause of it. I always find it comical. they forget it's an android tv device.

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## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> Maybe my recollection about GTV being dependent on Android TV 10 is that Google has indicated that they'll only allow OEMs to use GTV with Android TV 10 or later, not necessarily because it's a technical requirement but for whatever other reasons that Google has.
> 
> That said, I'm not sure that GTV, when sideloaded on the TS4K, is fully functional. So maybe there are certain APIs it uses that depend on Android TV 10?


I would guess there's a deeper integration of the GTV home screen in ATV10 than sideloaded on ATV9 since they designed it and showcased it on their device. But since it is an apk and does work on ATV9, it can be sideloaded. Would be interesting to see how well the suggestions work and how the recommended content populates. If one has a ccgtv and TS4k, one could essentially A/B it and take pics of the two homescreen over the course of a few weeks to see how they both change with your viewing habits. See if both mimic one another or not and try to decipher the differences.

Since I don't care for the GTV home screen, I won't be spearheading that experiment on my TS4k. Though with the projector and TV setup in the same room it would be easy to have them both side by side.

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## Alex_7

dbpaddler said:


> And someone in this thread would actually have to look it up on brickseek and even see if there is stock in their area, and then go to the actual store. Considering most here already have what they need, and it's not a big moneymaker to resell, I doubt anyone here is going to confirm it. But I've been in enough Walmart clearance deals from brickseek to know they exist and it's not just FUD. If you care enough, go search for it on slickdeals. I'm sure there's a thread there tallikg about it. I have three already and my area is sold out of them.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


What is the SKU for the Onn device?


----------



## Alex_7

dbpaddler said:


> I would guess there's a deeper integration of the GTV home screen in ATV10 than sideloaded on ATV9 since they designed it and showcased it on their device. But since it is an apk and does work on ATV9, it can be sideloaded. Would be interesting to see how well the suggestions work and how the recommended content populates. If one has a ccgtv and TS4k, one could essentially A/B it and take pics of the two homescreen over the course of a few weeks to see how they both change with your viewing habits. See if both mimic one another or not and try to decipher the differences.
> 
> Since I don't care for the GTV home screen, I won't be spearheading that experiment on my TS4k. Though with the projector and TV setup in the same room it would be easy to have them both side by side.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


I've had the GTV apk sideloaded on my TS4K for a while now and for the most part it works, I can add/remove stuff to my watchlist, mark things as watched, rate stuff, launch movies/shows from the home screen, and mostly everything integrates except for Netflix content.


----------



## NashGuy

Who knows whether the TS4K will get the redesigned Sling app. Even Sling's own Android TV devices, the Air TV Player and Air TV Mini, don't seem to have it and surely those would take precedence from Sling over the TS4K. Once Sling does roll out the update to their Android TV app, I wonder if it will still be compatible with the Sling controls built into the existing TiVo Stream app on the TS4K or if TiVo will have to update their app too?


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## NashGuy

Alex_7 said:


> What is the SKU for the Onn device?


Here it is:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/onn-Android-TV-UHD-Streaming-Device/636597403


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## krkaufman

scottchez said:


> Also the $19 clearance price at Walmart is interesting


Is anyone actually finding/buying the stream 4K at this price at Walmart?


----------



## dbpaddler

Alex_7 said:


> What is the SKU for the Onn device?


https://www.walmart.com/ip/onn-Android-TV-UHD-Streaming-Device/636597403

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## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> Who knows whether the TS4K will get the redesigned Sling app. Even Sling's own Android TV devices, the Air TV Player and Air TV Mini, don't seem to have it and surely those would take precedence from Sling over the TS4K. Once Sling does roll out the update to their Android TV app, I wonder if it will still be compatible with the Sling controls built into the existing TiVo Stream app on the TS4K or if TiVo will have to update their app too?


Would imagine it's more about the update hitting the play store, no? Considering they do have Android devices, you would think they wouldn't neglect Android in the grand scheme.

And just saw you posted the onn link already.

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## Alex_7

Do you have the brickseek link for it


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## dbpaddler

Alex_7 said:


> Do you have the brickseek link for it


I couldn't find one. It might not be loaded yet because it's not actually for sale yet? Guessing.

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## NashGuy

dbpaddler said:


> Would imagine it's more about the update hitting the play store, no? Considering they do have Android devices, you would think they wouldn't neglect Android in the grand scheme.
> 
> And just saw you posted the onn link already.


Maybe. Not sure whether either Sling's own Air TV Mini or the TS4K use Sling's regular Android TV app distributed via Google Play Store or if they have a special version given those devices' custom integration of Sling. For instance, if you look at the Sling app icon on the home screen of the Air TV Mini, it says "Sling Air TV Mini" instead of the usual "Sling".


----------



## Alex_7

I checked my sling app on my Firetv stick and it has not been updated yet


----------



## cwoody222

Looks like it's just a beta test as of new.

Sling starts beta testing an updated app with Amazon Fire TV owners | Engadget


----------



## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> Maybe. Not sure whether either Sling's own Air TV Mini or the TS4K use Sling's regular Android TV app distributed via Google Play Store or if they have a special version given those devices' custom integration of Sling. For instance, if you look at the Sling app icon on the home screen of the Air TV Mini, it says "Sling Air TV Mini" instead of the usual "Sling".
> 
> View attachment 60082


I wonder if both apps are in the app store on those devices, or if it's just the one app and it knows by device ID it's on a sling device and switches settings.

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## NashGuy

dbpaddler said:


> I wonder if both apps are in the app store on those devices, or if it's just the one app and it knows by device ID it's on a sling device and switches settings.


No idea. At any rate, I can see how Sling might have a bit of additional dev work to get their new-look app ready for either the Air TV or the TS4K. But the fact that they've already gotten a beta out for Fire TV, which is actually a form of Android, bodes well for the chances that Android TV devices will see the update in the coming months.


----------



## foghorn2

looks and works 200% better than the old interface. Best thing is the DVR/Recordings tab.


----------



## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> No idea. At any rate, I can see how Sling might have a bit of additional dev work to get their new-look app ready for either the Air TV or the TS4K. But the fact that they've already gotten a beta out for Fire TV, which is actually a form of Android, bodes well for the chances that Android TV devices will see the update in the coming months.


I would expect them to at least mention android though as a coming soon, to follow or something. In a general three horse race where they're even vested in one of the horses you'd think they'd give it a mention.

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## NashGuy

dbpaddler said:


> I would expect them to at least mention android though as a coming soon, to follow or something. In a general three horse race where they're even vested in one of the horses you'd think they'd give it a mention.


I'd say it's simply a function of how much market share that Fire TV and Roku have. Those two have way more combined usage in the US than do Apple TV and Android TV.


----------



## Alex_7

Hands on overview of Walmart's $30 Onn 4K Android TV streaming box


----------



## fattymcbuckles

Alex_7 said:


> Hands on overview of Walmart's $30 Onn 4K Android TV streaming box


To many problems. Not ready for prime time unfortunately


----------



## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> I'd say it's simply a function of how much market share that Fire TV and Roku have. Those two have way more combined usage in the US than do Apple TV and Android TV.


Well they do say "all devices" this year. Probably meaning it'll be by the end of the year.



> The new Sling app is available on select Amazon Fire TV devices beginning today and will be rolling out across all devices throughout this year.


----------



## dbpaddler

fattymcbuckles said:


> To many problems. Not ready for prime time unfortunately


How did you glean that from a hands on that never even fired up the device?


----------



## Alex_7

dbpaddler said:


> How did you glean that from a hands on that never even fired up the device?


Elias goes more in depth in the other link I provided, he mentions the device's HDR is stuck on always on, only about 4GB internal storage, micro usb port instead of a usb c port, issues with programming the remote to tv, the list of issues goes on.

Walmart's Onn Android TV streaming box is a rebranded Dynalink / Google ADT-3 reference design


----------



## NashGuy

Alex_7 said:


> Elias goes more in depth in the other link I provided, he mentions the device's HDR is stuck on always on, only about 4GB internal storage, micro usb port instead of a usb c port, issues with programming the remote to tv, the list of issues goes on.
> 
> Walmart's Onn Android TV streaming box is a rebranded Dynalink / Google ADT-3 reference design


Hmm, I thought that Google had built support for native dynamic range auto-switching into Android TV 10. At least it's there in their Chromecast with Google TV. Although maybe that was part of an update it received recently, and not part of Android TV itself. Not sure.

As for programming the device's remote to operate the TV power and volume, isn't that just dependent on HDMI-CEC, a feature that just about all TVs have had for years now? If so, you might get different results with different TVs, depending on how well they support that standard.


----------



## NashGuy

BTW, looks like Walmart may be done with the TiVo Stream 4K now. You can still find it listed on Walmart.com but it's only available from a third-party seller, not from Walmart itself as used to be the case. In-store pick-up is no longer available. Which makes sense as their replacement for it, their own new Onn Android TV box, is apparently starting to show up in stores at the low, low price of $29.88. Guess we'll see it available for order on their website any time now.


----------



## Alex_7

the walmart Onn device is already in stock at my local walmart


----------



## dbpaddler

Alex_7 said:


> Elias goes more in depth in the other link I provided, he mentions the device's HDR is stuck on always on, only about 4GB internal storage, micro usb port instead of a usb c port, issues with programming the remote to tv, the list of issues goes on.
> 
> Walmart's Onn Android TV streaming box is a rebranded Dynalink / Google ADT-3 reference design


We already dealt with the hdr issue. The rest is basic with these cheap streamers. Outside of the TS4k and ccgtv,no one else (in the us) has usb-c.

Not ready for prime time is a bit harsh. It's just cheap basic crap none of us want at this stage.

Anker is coming out with their version of it too. Market is just flooding with these cheap boxes.

Anker Nebula may finally make Android TV too cheap to ignore


----------



## Bertram Moshier

Hello,

RCN is going to the TiVo Android experience. It is the PITS!!! Plus RCN got me to change by lying to me.

RCN called saying they had a wireless box (only main change per the sales woman). I asked her if there would still be:

1) Slow-mo
2) Freeze frame with advance

I also asked: Other than WIFI / wireless what else is different.

She said there would be slow-mo, freeze frame with advance, and changes.

She was WRONG either because of a lack of education or fraud!!



Instead what I got was a box that is the pits! I'm not listing all the issues, just the top 3.

Number one: The new ToDo list doesn't make sense. It seems to only give one a list of OnePass series, EVEN IF THERE ARE NO EPISODE to record. An example is the CBS series Blue Blood. I have an OnePass entry to record on CBS only and only new episodes (twice (once at season and then again in type of recording (everything, new & return, new only).

Yet, in this example Blue Bloods shows up in the ToDo list.

How do I know what will record and when in this new format????

In the old format, I got a CHRONOLOGICAL list of episodes to record. This was easy to understand!!


Number Two: Guide movement: With the RCN TiVo streaming interface, I have to press the remote button 48 times per day (on say Cartoon Network). Using the old interface and the "tab key," going one day was one push!

Why is that important? Cartoon Network Toonami (Saturday 22:30 CDT to Sunday 02:00 CDT) has 7 different series each week, but they are NOT the same each and every week. YOU MUST LOOK UP the list for the week and insure it is recording.

With the current interface and it say being Monday, I would have to press the remote button (48*6)-3 or 285 times. If I was doing this on Sunday or Saturday, it would be worse!!!!!

Number Three: No Slow-Motion or Freeze Frame advance at all. I use both of these both being a Sneakerhead and to watch various sporting event! There is no way now to go back and slowly or frame by frame watch something interesting!

I don't know about you, but I like sports and I used these two buttons all the time.

NOTE: It would be possible to implement them on a streaming box by keeping say the last X minutes on the box (live or recorded). Either way, having a buffer (RAM or SSD) on the device where you can do slow-motion and freeze advance is possible.

Number Four: OK I said three, but number four: RCN2Go doesn't work. This is a program to allow you to access your box remotely and watch what you record from work, on the road, etc.


To RCN: I am considering buying my own TiVo box, but only if I can get an interface like the old one on the box. Your prices of $42/month for a 6 tuner makes buying a TiVo cost effective!


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## fattymcbuckles

dbpaddler said:


> How did you glean that from a hands on that never even fired up the device?


Watch and read the review and decide for yourself


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## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> Hmm, I thought that Google had built support for native dynamic range auto-switching into Android TV 10. At least it's there in their Chromecast with Google TV. Although maybe that was part of an update it received recently, and not part of Android TV itself. Not sure.
> 
> As for programming the device's remote to operate the TV power and volume, isn't that just dependent on HDMI-CEC, a feature that just about all TVs have had for years now? If so, you might get different results with different TVs, depending on how well they support that standard.


Firmware out of the box can be old.


fattymcbuckles said:


> Watch and read the review and decide for yourself


Don't need to. Would never buy one.


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## dbpaddler

Bertram Moshier said:


> Hello,
> 
> RCN is going to the TiVo Android experience. It is the PITS!!! Plus RCN got me to change by lying to me.
> 
> RCN called saying they had a wireless box (only main change per the sales woman). I asked her if there would still be:
> 
> 1) Slow-mo
> 2) Freeze frame with advance
> 
> I also asked: Other than WIFI / wireless what else is different.
> 
> She said there would be slow-mo, freeze frame with advance, and changes.
> 
> She was WRONG either because of a lack of education or fraud!!
> 
> Instead what I got was a box that is the pits! I'm not listing all the issues, just the top 3.
> 
> Number one: The new ToDo list doesn't make sense. It seems to only give one a list of OnePass series, EVEN IF THERE ARE NO EPISODE to record. An example is the CBS series Blue Blood. I have an OnePass entry to record on CBS only and only new episodes (twice (once at season and then again in type of recording (everything, new & return, new only).
> 
> Yet, in this example Blue Bloods shows up in the ToDo list.
> 
> How do I know what will record and when in this new format????
> 
> In the old format, I got a CHRONOLOGICAL list of episodes to record. This was easy to understand!!
> 
> Number Two: Guide movement: With the RCN TiVo streaming interface, I have to press the remote button 48 times per day (on say Cartoon Network). Using the old interface and the "tab key," going one day was one push!
> 
> Why is that important? Cartoon Network Toonami (Saturday 22:30 CDT to Sunday 02:00 CDT) has 7 different series each week, but they are NOT the same each and every week. YOU MUST LOOK UP the list for the week and insure it is recording.
> 
> With the current interface and it say being Monday, I would have to press the remote button (48*6)-3 or 285 times. If I was doing this on Sunday or Saturday, it would be worse!!!!!
> 
> Number Three: No Slow-Motion or Freeze Frame advance at all. I use both of these both being a Sneakerhead and to watch various sporting event! There is no way now to go back and slowly or frame by frame watch something interesting!
> 
> I don't know about you, but I like sports and I used these two buttons all the time.
> 
> NOTE: It would be possible to implement them on a streaming box by keeping say the last X minutes on the box (live or recorded). Either way, having a buffer (RAM or SSD) on the device where you can do slow-motion and freeze advance is possible.
> 
> Number Four: OK I said three, but number four: RCN2Go doesn't work. This is a program to allow you to access your box remotely and watch what you record from work, on the road, etc.
> 
> To RCN: I am considering buying my own TiVo box, but only if I can get an interface like the old one on the box. Your prices of $42/month for a 6 tuner makes buying a TiVo cost effective!


Fun rant. Nowhere close to a correct thread for it though.


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## NashGuy

dbpaddler said:


> We already dealt with the hdr issue. The rest is basic with these cheap streamers. Outside of the TS4k and ccgtv,no one else (in the us) has usb-c.
> 
> Not ready for prime time is a bit harsh. It's just cheap basic crap none of us want at this stage.
> 
> Anker is coming out with their version of it too. Market is just flooding with these cheap boxes.


Honestly, these boxes are fine for the great majority of folks. The Onn device has 4K HDR and a voice remote with TV controls and costs under $30! That beats anything in the Roku or Fire TV lineup at that price point. Heck, even Google's original HD-only cast-only Chromecast costs as much. Quality isn't what sells streaming devices for the masses, it's low prices.

I don't see why anyone would care about the power port (whether it's USB-C or not) unless they wanted to use it to connect peripherals or storage, something maybe 0.0001% of folks do with their streamer. The always-on HDR will be a turn-off for some folks but my guess is that the great majority of those with 4K HDR-capable TVs actually _prefer_ always-on HDR. (Remember that that's the default setting even on the high-end Apple TV 4K.)

The biggest flaw I can see in these low-cost Android TV devices is that they lack the Apple TV app, which is the only high-profile app missing. That said, they still won't sell a ton simply because these are unadvertised generic brand devices. But between these new cheaper Android TV devices and Google's own Chromecast with Google TV line, plus a growing number of smart TVs running the OS, we should finally see Android TV rise above single-digit market share in the US.


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## scottchez

My Tivo 4k is still not usable on YourTUBE TV and there is no Apple TV.
Plan to get an other FireTV stick.
QUESTION: any way to pair the great Tivo Remote to the FireTV, then I get the bet of both worlds. just love the Tivo remote, been using it for what seems like decades.

I think the Tivo Stream is soon to be no longer supported now that Google and others have Android solutions that seem better with the new GUIs.
Trying to get some use out of my cost of buying the Tivo.


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## Bertram Moshier

dbpaddler said:


> Fun rant. Nowhere close to a correct thread for it though.


OK, Sorry. What is the correct thread? Thought it was this one because it sound like RCN is using the interface / experience you're discussing here.


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## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> Honestly, these boxes are fine for the great majority of folks. The Onn device has 4K HDR and a voice remote with TV controls and costs under $30! That beats anything in the Roku or Fire TV lineup at that price point. Heck, even Google's original HD-only cast-only Chromecast costs as much. Quality isn't what sells streaming devices for the masses, it's low prices.
> 
> I don't see why anyone would care about the power port (whether it's USB-C or not) unless they wanted to use it to connect peripherals or storage, something maybe 0.0001% of folks do with their streamer. The always-on HDR will be a turn-off for some folks but my guess is that the great majority of those with 4K HDR-capable TVs actually _prefer_ always-on HDR. (Remember that that's the default setting even on the high-end Apple TV 4K.)
> 
> The biggest flaw I can see in these low-cost Android TV devices is that they lack the Apple TV app, which is the only high-profile app missing. That said, they still won't sell a ton simply because these are unadvertised generic brand devices. But between these new cheaper Android TV devices and Google's own Chromecast with Google TV line, plus a growing number of smart TVs running the OS, we should finally see Android TV rise above single-digit market share in the US.


Do we need to rehash this one again?

Don't be the reason we can't have nice things.

On the flip side... MicroUSB is bad because it needs to die, period. There should be no new devices being brought out that utilize microUSB. All it does is hurt the adoption of USB-C and force people to keep cables around they don't need for anything else. If your cable gets chewed through, torn, breaks or what not, the odds of having a replacement cable around diminish with each passing day. I have to keep a mini USB around for my Harmony One. Misplaced it for a few and was annoyed as hell.


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## dbpaddler

Bertram Moshier said:


> OK, Sorry. What is the correct thread? Thought it was this one because it sound like RCN is using the interface / experience you're discussing here.


The stream 4k is a standalone android tv streaming device. Tivo has operator tier and uses Android tv as the underlying OS in cable boxes. Very different animal. And I don't think there is a section. There is a section for direct TV tivo boxes, but that's still old school tivo.

I'd imagine you should take it to the Coffee House section. Betting there isn't enough people talking about it to warrant a section.


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## dbpaddler

scottchez said:


> My Tivo 4k is still not usable on YourTUBE TV and there is no Apple TV.
> Plan to get an other FireTV stick.
> QUESTION: any way to pair the great Tivo Remote to the FireTV, then I get the bet of both worlds. just love the Tivo remote, been using it for what seems like decades.
> 
> I think the Tivo Stream is soon to be no longer supported now that Google and others have Android solutions that seem better with the new GUIs.
> Trying to get some use out of my cost of buying the Tivo.


It's not going anywhere anytime soon. And what you consider better, many consider worse. Many prefer the Android TV home screen over the Google TV one.


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## fattymcbuckles

scottchez said:


> My Tivo 4k is still not usable on YourTUBE TV and there is no Apple TV.
> Plan to get an other FireTV stick.
> QUESTION: any way to pair the great Tivo Remote to the FireTV, then I get the bet of both worlds. just love the Tivo remote, been using it for what seems like decades.
> 
> I think the Tivo Stream is soon to be no longer supported now that Google and others have Android solutions that seem better with the new GUIs.
> Trying to get some use out of my cost of buying the Tivo.


Wish TiVo would fix the issue with YouTube tv. In the mean time you can cast from your phone to TiVo 4K using the chromecast feature. Better than nothing


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## cwoody222

Bertram Moshier said:


> OK, Sorry. What is the correct thread? Thought it was this one because it sound like RCN is using the interface / experience you're discussing here.


Here's one
TiVo on Android TV?


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## NashGuy

dbpaddler said:


> Do we need to rehash this one again?
> 
> Don't be the reason we can't have nice things.


Don't be silly. You want a nice streamer? Buy the Apple TV 4K like I have. Or the Nvidia Shield. But at their prices, they'll never have that much market share.

The problem that Android TV has in the US is that it doesn't have a large enough user base. Which lessens the commitment that developers have to the platform -- to provide apps, keep them updated and make sure they work as well as they do on other platforms. Android TV has long been lumped under "Other," a platform that's catered to only once Roku, Fire TV, Apple TV, and Samsung smart TV are nailed down.

But Google seems to finally understand that. So we're now seeing a push toward low-cost Android TV devices that can meet or beat Roku and Fire TV on a feature-to-cost basis. That's what will drive sales. The reason that Roku and Fire TV control such a huge portion of the streaming user base isn't because they offer "nice things". It's because they offer cheap things. Amazon and Roku have sold tons of their devices and no one gives a sh!t that none of them sport a USB-C port.


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## NashGuy

Bertram Moshier said:


> OK, Sorry. What is the correct thread? Thought it was this one because it sound like RCN is using the interface / experience you're discussing here.


No one that matters is going to read your complaint on this website. I'd encourage you to contact RCN directly. It sounds like maybe you got switched from RCN's traditional QAM-based cable TV service (which uses traditional TiVo boxes) over to their new IPTV service (which uses TiVo Android TV boxes). You should just contact RCN customer support and tell them that you're not happy with the new equipment you have and that you'd like to switch back to what you used to have.

https://www.rcn.com/


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## dbpaddler

Summer sale. Guess that's why Walmart has it back and at the cheap price.









Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


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## scottchez

No need for Tivo anymore. Google does it now.

Today it was announced on another site that Sling Channels are now fully integrated on the Google TV Home page (like it is on the Tivo app).
Rollout is over the next couple of days. You need to link your Sling account to the Google TV account just like you had to with the Tivo Account.

I am going to De TIVO mine and side load the Google TV app, making it like the Google TV, it seems to be the new and up comming system.
Like the title says, Tivo is abandoning it. Maybe it is more Tivo is abandoning the Software and will just use Googles software or main page.
I still like the remote better.

For more details see one of the Cut Cutting or Streaming web sites they have Photos and how tos for Google TV, do those steps after you load the Google TV app and remap it to the the home button(works great)


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## 241705

I prefer the non-GoogleTV interface so I'm interested to see how things play out with AndroidTV in general. My TS4K's are "de-TiVo'd" and function pretty well - I like them better than the Chromecast w/GoogleTV that I own.

Now, if TiVo, Google or someone would integrate my network tuner (HDHomeRun) with the other channels from the streaming services that would be pretty cool. Closest I seem to be able to get is ChannelsDVR with their support for TVE.


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## dbpaddler

And now Amazon is in at $29. So we got them, Walmart and Target.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B089655HQ...20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=386001#aod

If they're going to ditch it, it's an odd way to go about it. This doesn't seem like a TouchPad fire sale to me.

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


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## Pokemon_Dad

Just got the email from TiVo offering it direct at $29.99, with links to Amazon and Walmart as well. Even at the original price, I'm sure this was never about making money on the hardware, it's about long-term revenue from the Sling partnership and other purchases made through the device. So I'm not at all sure this lower price means they're giving up, though it may indicate a bit of competitive desperation.


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