# The Walking Dead "Coda" 11/30/14 | Talking Dead 11/30/14 No preview spoilers



## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

OMG! I didn't see that coming.
I knew something would happen because she had the scissors, but that is not what I was expecting.

And if you stopped watching before the previews of 5b, you missed the extra scene with Morgan.


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

That kinda hurt!


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I went on FB soon after it aired and the show posted the spoiler with no consideration for the west coast. How Thoughtless!


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Oh look, everything's going so well, we could round out a season to the break with a happy ending..... 

whoops


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Having lived on the west coast for a long time, I would be peeved about that FB post. 

I didn't care for Beth's character but I am sorry she is gone. I was hoping to see her and Noah together and since I also have a sister, I am broken up for Maggie. 

The actress was sweet on TD.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Sadly, mostly through my own fault, Beth's demise was spoiled in the show thread last week.

Other than that a great episode, the scene where they exited the hospital was heart wrenching.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

What did Beth figure out before she died?

My guess is that Beth thought Dawn wanted her "ward" to kill her, as she had killed her mentor. Not that I think Beth is right about that. Both Dawn and Beth seemed pretty far gone, so I don't think either one was thinking clearly most of the time.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

That was definitely sad. I didn't really get the entire exchange though: what's the point of Beth going after Dawn with the scissors? What did she think she would accomplish? And why does Dawn have her gun pointed up at Beth's chin like that, between their bodies? I thought they had all put away or at least lowered their weapons. Dawn seemed to say she didn't mean to shoot, like she jerked the trigger when she got stabbed. And why doesn't Dawn react after she shoots Beth, but just lets Daryl walk up and shoot her in the head? Seems like she would do something; she has her own weapon ready to go.

Man oh man, Gabriel is just about the most useless person I think the group has come across since the show started. I mean Eugene is useless but at least he knows it and has some self-preservation instinct, so you can count on him to be getting out of the way of trouble, if not to help anyone else get out of it. But Gabriel is just dangerous. I couldn't understand what he was doing when he was holding the door while they escaped through the floor. I mean, if he was willing to sacrifice himself to keep the baby safe why did he pound on the door to be let in in the first place?

I agree with Keegan from TD: Gabriel deserves the Rick Grimes "one strike" rule... and he should definitely be out.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

She figured out that Dawn was a master manipulator. She was doing everything for selfish reasons.

One thing they never revealed was how Beth came to be there. The "story" was that they rescue her, but we know she was kidnapped. Maybe Can didn't know about that but I kinda doubt it.

P.S. I was spoiler on Twitter by someone I used to follow when he tweeted that FB picture. I mostly follow hockey do didn't expect to see this spoiler. Not usually a spoilerphobe, but this guy posts the picture in his tweet where he's slamming AMC for posting it. Could have easily alluded to it without spoiling it.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> And if you stopped watching before the previews of 5b, you missed the extra scene with Morgan.


Did they just start these after-credit scenes? This is at least the second time that they have had a Morgan scene after the credits rolled...

I watched the first four seasons on Netflix and never waited for after the credits, so I am wondering if I missed some content along the way...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

MikeekiM said:


> Did they just start these after-credit scenes? This is at least the second time that they have had a Morgan scene after the credits rolled...
> 
> I watched the first four seasons on Netflix and never waited for after the credits, so I am wondering if I missed some content along the way...


Nope. You didn't miss anything. They did a short one after the credits of S5E1 and then this longer one after S5E8, but those are the only two they've ever done.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I thought the pacing on this episode was really erratic. I was expecting the prisoner exchange battle to be the majority of the episode, so when they kept having these slow moments and heartfelt talks, I just kept looking at the clock and wondering when they were going to get to the good stuff. Then when they finally did get to the hostage exchange, it was very rushed. Not an episode worthy of losing one of the gang.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Well, the most important reveal for this episode -- the blaze in front of the church does indeed have a tail!

I don't see why anyone avoids the WD previews, they never reveal anything. (Unlike some shows I could mention.) I wonder just how long it's going to take Morgan to catch up with Rick & co.?


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

That's the Rick I love!!
You get one chance- "Stop!"
CRASH. Headshot.
"Shut up."

Tyrese is not only useless but a liar, too.
So now even those few tasks like babysitting that we thought he could be trusted to handle are off the table because he can't even tell the damn truth about whether a threat is dead or not.

I was spoiled as to the death and found it anti climactic and lackluster.
Which kind of describes the entire half season as IMO the writing has been especially terrible this year. The entire hospital arc was ill conceived and suffered from even worse execution.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

One nit to pick....you do NOT shut off diesel engines when you know you're gonna use the vehicle relatively soon; you let them idle. They're much harder to start than a gasoline engine (at least they used to be; I drove one for work many years ago).

And, yes, the scene with Maggie breaking down was much more moving than Beth getting shot...



Cearbhaill said:


> That's the Rick I love!!
> You get one chance- "Stop!"
> CRASH. Headshot.
> "Shut up..."


THIS!


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I thought the Termites did a heck of a lot of eating for Bob's leg to be pretty much still whole when the Preacher saw it at the school.


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## Big Deficit (Jul 8, 2003)

Not a terrible episode or half season, but not great either. The season started out with terminus's demise, a pretty good arc for the show. The whole hospital arc seemed poorly fleshed out in comparison. I was left with the feeling like I was supposed to get a lot more out of Beth and Dawns interaction and the other people in Atlanta, but missed it. The hospital situation never felt remotely realistic to me though based on previous locations like the prison and even terminus, it could have. It's almost like the budget went over on terminus and they decided to make it all up on the hospital. Beth's demise was supposed to shock, but felt muted because of that lack of plot development. 

OTH, the priest may be the dumbest character introduced yet. Sneak out of church, bring zombies back to church, let zombies into church, make everyone have to sneak out of church? It will be good to see him eaten.


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## Vendikarr (Feb 24, 2004)

Below are comic spoilers about Gabriel. They may not apply to the show, but proceed at your own risk.



Spoiler



In the comics Gabriel accompanies Rick's group, and they later find a safe haven. After arriving, Gabriel sets up a new church and then tells the people of the safe haven that Rick and his people are bad people and are dangerous, and should be kicked out. Talk about gratitude.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Only thing that seemed odd is with everything they know why would Beth stab her in the shoulder and not the eye or temple? 

I did read an interview with the actress who played Beth after it was over and she seemed kind of bitter about it. Which I kind of get because Beth was a set piece at first but grew a lot this last season seemed they could have explored a lot more with her character.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mwhip said:


> I did read an interview with the actress who played Beth after it was over and she seemed kind of bitter about it. Which I kind of get because Beth was a set piece at first but grew a lot this last season seemed they could have explored a lot more with her character.


And I suspect also because she didn't find out until they handed her the script. That seems like kind of a dick move, frankly..."You're fired. Now go out there and do a good job."


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And I suspect also because she didn't find out until they handed her the script. That seems like kind of a dick move, frankly..."You're fired. Now go out there and do a good job."


She said on TTD that she found out last season.
At least I think I heard this is my sleep...


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Cearbhaill said:


> She said on TTD that she found out last season.
> I think I heard this is my sleep...


Oh she did show up on TTD? I watched the first ten minutes and she was not there.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

mwhip said:


> Oh she did show up on TTD? I watched the first ten minutes and she was not there.


Yes, and she kept breaking down in tears. Obviously, she wasn't ready to leave the show.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Cearbhaill said:


> She said on TTD that she found out last season.
> At least I think I heard this is my sleep...


That's most assuredly not what she told Ausiello!

http://tvline.com/2014/11/30/the-wa...on-5-midseason-finale-emily-kinney-interview/


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

Cearbhaill said:


> She said on TTD that she found out last season.
> At least I think I heard this is my sleep...


I thought she said she had found out during the shooting of the episode prior.


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## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

No, she definitely mentioned finding out the season prior, because she was juxtapositioning having to take care of personal stuff (moving, subleasing Atlanta apartment, etc) with having to still deliver moving performances on the show.

That doesn't mean she didn't just misspeak. She was a mess on TTD


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

ej42137 said:


> I wonder just how long it's going to take Morgan to catch up with Rick & co.?


Well given that he's been tracking their movements on foot but they all left the church in vehicles, it's going to be pretty tough for him to keep tracking them. Not to mention that Morgan found the map that says they're going to DC, which is no longer true.

I'm sure Morgan will find them, otherwise there would be no point in showing those scenes, but it's not going to be from tracking them.



Anubys said:


> I thought the Termites did a heck of a lot of eating for Bob's leg to be pretty much still whole when the Preacher saw it at the school.


They cut off Bob's leg pretty high on the femur. What we saw on the grill was only from the knee down. So they ate all of the thigh meat, which is where most of the meat is anyway.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> They cut off Bob's leg pretty high on the femur. What we saw on the grill was only from the knee down. So they ate all of the thigh meat, which is where most of the meat is anyway.


It's a bit troubling that you're so conversant in the consumption of human meat...


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It's a bit troubling that you're so conversant in the consumption of human meat...


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

So thoughts on how many (if any) of the hospital people are going to join Rick and the gang? 

At this point Rick and that group still thinks they are going to Washington, so obviously that's why he's not concerned about staying there at all.


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

mwhip said:


> Only thing that seemed odd is with everything they know why would Beth stab her in the shoulder and not the eye or temple?


Because she's not good at killing people.



MikeMar said:


> So thoughts on how many (if any) of the hospital people are going to join Rick and the gang?


Noah came out the door behind Daryl carrying Beth. That's probably all.

I don't see how Rick would've ever agreed to have the exchange in the hospital. It should've been outside covered by snipers.

Based on things said in the after show previews, I have a spoiler *request* for the comic readers:


Spoiler



The previews had some mention of a next destination. Michonne, roughly: "It's one hundred miles away. It might be a safe place, not just surviving." _Very_ briefly, what's the place? Like "a farm", "a prison", "a town". Thanks.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

I called it last week - well, I knew it was either Beth or Carol, so I wasn't surprised when it happened - shocked, yes, but not surprised!


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Carol made a remarkable recovery.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

It is my recollection, from TD, that Emily said she found out about her demise in the EPISODE prior. I'll have to look again, as I still have it in my 'deleted' folder.

Yeah, amazing how Carol went from pretty much comatose to having it all together in what appeared to be a moment in time.

I like 'one chance Rick'.

Preacher man needs to go. Maybe he could take mullet boy with.

I have to say - the death of Beth was pretty sad. I don't recall ever having cried during this show but, especially when Daryl was crying, it was just way too sad. Then, when they came out, I just knew that Daryl would be carrying her. There is no other way it could have been. Between him and Maggie - still crying. 

I enjoyed having Emily on TD. She seemed really sad to be leaving and talked about moving there and how they were all friends. I hope to see her in something else soon.

Pretty sucky the spoilers people were subject to on social media. I guess every moron and his cousin is on social media now. Glad I'm missing out.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

sharkster said:


> Preacher man needs to go. Maybe he could take mullet boy with.


Although at least Mullet Boy can be useful....i.e., he's smart and comes up with good ideas. Preacher Man seems utterly useless.


sharkster said:


> Pretty sucky the spoilers people were subject to on social media. I guess every moron and his cousin is on social media now. Glad I'm missing out.


I must say, however, that anybody who visits the official Walking Dead Facebook page after an episode has aired but before they've seen it pretty much deserves what they get.

The idiot who protested it by tweeting the spoiler, though, is, well, an idiot.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

heySkippy said:


> Carol made a remarkable recovery.


No kidding!



Rob Helmerichs said:


> I must say, however, that anybody who visits the official Walking Dead Facebook page after an episode has aired but before they've seen it pretty much deserves what they get.


But the problem is that if you "like" the Walking Dead page on FB (like a WD fan is likely to do) then the spoiler showed up in your FB feed. You didn't have to go to their page, it showed up in your feed. The only remedy would be to unlike the page.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Jstkiddn said:


> No kidding!


Is _Jstkiddn_ allowed to say this?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Jstkiddn said:


> No kidding!
> 
> But the problem is that if you "like" the Walking Dead page on FB (like a WD fan is likely to do) then the spoiler showed up in your FB feed. You didn't have to go to their page, it showed up in your feed. The only remedy would be to unlike the page.


Yeah, I'm not convinced Rob uses FB after that post. I can count on one hand the number of times I've "visited an FB page" but I like several dozen. I would have been pretty angry if I had gotten spoiled. I gasped out loud when it happened, and that is extremely rare for me.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Jstkiddn said:


> But the problem is that if you "like" the Walking Dead page on FB (like a WD fan is likely to do) then the spoiler showed up in your FB feed. You didn't have to go to their page, it showed up in your feed. The only remedy would be to unlike the page.


I live in the west and pretty much stay off social media in the evenings between the time when stuff airs on the East Coast and when I get around to watching it. Too many idiots think it's cool to post spoilers or to live-tweet shows, despite the fact that it hasn't aired yet for half the country.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> Yeah, I'm not convinced Rob uses FB after that post. I can count on one hand the number of times I've "visited an FB page" but I like several dozen. I would have been pretty angry if I had gotten spoiled. I gasped out loud when it happened, and that is extremely rare for me.


My Facebook use is pretty limited and brutally managed (I've never "liked" a page, and I turn off notifications for all my "friends" except my daughter), so I didn't realize that could happen. In which case, yeah, it sucks that they did that...


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Jstkiddn said:


> The only remedy would be to unlike the page.


Another remedy, because that's not the only one, would be to just stop following the page w/o unliking it.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Jstkiddn said:


> The only remedy would be to unlike the page.


One of our FB friends shared that page last night. Fortunately, the FB gods did not deign to show me his share this morning, but my wife wasn't so fortunate.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

heySkippy said:


> One of our FB friends shared that page last night. Fortunately, the FB gods did not deign to show me his share this morning, but my wife wasn't so fortunate.


Oh wow! I think I would have been pretty annoyed. Did either of you call him out on it or did you let it slide?

I guess people just don't think before they hit "share". 



scandia101 said:


> Another remedy, because that's not the only one, would be to just stop following the page w/o unliking it.


True...but then what would be the point of "liking" the page?


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Jstkiddn said:


> Oh wow! I think I would have been pretty annoyed. Did either of you call him out on it or did you let it slide?
> 
> I guess people just don't think before they hit "share".
> 
> True...but then what would be the point of "liking" the page?


:facebook crap incoming:

What's the point of liking anything on facebook?

:crap completed:


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Ha! You have a point.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> Another remedy, because that's not the only one, would be to just stop following the page w/o unliking it.


Yup you can tell it to not show in your feed.

That being said I stay off the internet for a few hours because I have seen HuffPo and many other places let it slip through.

Now some people internationally complain they dont get to see it for another day or so. That's more difficult but the same rules apply just longer IMHO.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Yeah, I've successfully avoided some sports results for up to 24 hours before, it wasn't easy, but it can be done.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

For the people saying that Beth dying was spoiled last week....was that based off of actual knowledge or just somebody's theory?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Apparently, it's known in certain circles that the actor hasn't been seen on-set in some time.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

pmyers said:


> For the people saying that Beth dying was spoiled last week....was that based off of actual knowledge or just somebody's theory?


It was only spoiled if you clicked the spoiler, which I stupidly did thinking it was someone's theory.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Although at least Mullet Boy can be useful....i.e., he's smart and comes up with good ideas. Preacher Man seems utterly useless.


True, but I wouldn't keep Mullet Boy because his big lie was the proximate cause for some deaths, injuries, breakdowns, and general difficulties and malfunctions for the rest of the group.

In my version, he and preacher man can go off into the sunset and try to save each other. (there's a show that wouldn't last long!)


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

I expected Beth to stab Dawn in the neck, severing her carotid artery or jugular vein. I didn't expect her to get her brains blown out.  

At least they weren't as graphic with her head wound as they should have been for that type of shot, whereas they do not hesitate for graphic gooeyness for the walkers.

It takes a hard man for Kirkman to sit next to Emily on TD and witness the obvious pain he caused for this sweet little actress by killing her character off, though he did attempt to explain the rationale. I think Keegan had more difficulty hiding his emotions on the other end of the couch.

Looking forward to seeing Emily's star rise.


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

getreal said:


> I think Keegan had more difficulty hiding his emotions on the other end of the couch.


Well, Kirkman and Emily knew long beforehand the outcome of the episode. It was probably fresh for Keegan. Do the non-show guests get a sneak preview of any kind or do they watch it live?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

getreal said:


> ...It takes a hard man for Kirkman to sit next to Emily on TD and witness the obvious pain he caused for this sweet little actress by killing her character off, though he did attempt to explain the rationale....


Remember, she's an ACTOR....she can cry at will....and I don't feel a bit sorry for her. She's made (and WILL make) a LOT of money off WD...


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Maui said:


> Well, Kirkman and Emily knew long beforehand the outcome of the episode. It was probably fresh for Keegan. Do the non-show guests get a sneak preview of any kind or do they watch it live?


They must get a special viewing. I remember Keegan saying that he and his wife watched the show so, unless they showed it right there in the studio before they started the live airing of TD, people had access to the episode before the initial airing.

TD is live and airs right after the East Coast viewing time of TWD. I'm just glad our AMC channel is still on East Coast feed.  When Tivo erroneously changed the guide, thinking AMC was changing to Pacific Coast feed I was really bummed. Maybe Charter is still planning this, but I really hope not. That would preclude me from watching both shows on Sundays, as I like to do.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> Remember, she's an ACTOR....she can cry at will....and I don't feel a bit sorry for her. She's made (and WILL make) a LOT of money off WD...


I felt like she was genuinely sad to be leaving the show and her friends. I agree that she will do well. She's talented and lovely. I would really like to see her in something again.


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## crazywater (Mar 7, 2001)

goblue97 said:


> I thought she said she had found out during the shooting of the episode prior.


That is what I heard her say, she found out while shooting the episode prior.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

She said she found out while filming episode 7. She wouldn't have received the script for episode 8 until after filming 7.

-smak-


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> Remember, she's an ACTOR....she can cry at will....and I don't feel a bit sorry for her. She's made (and WILL make) a LOT of money off WD...


Actors aren't allowed to have the same emotions and feelings as everybody else, because they make a lot of money?

-smak-


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> Remember, she's an ACTOR....she can cry at will....and I don't feel a bit sorry for her. She's made (and WILL make) a LOT of money off WD...


We hope! She was basically an unknown to start with and was probably given a low salary. Did they renegotiate an extension at some point, I don't know.
I just wouldn't bet she made a lot on the show. She may get a bunch of new deals from the publicity though.

Watching the end scene with Morgan at the church, I sort of wondered if he was the pastors brother.

Clearly there is a trail of symbols being left which have not been explained yet. It could be Rick's new version of the walkie talkie but I guess we will have to wait and see.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

I feel increasingly disappointed that I basically knew Beth's demise was coming, without knowing how. Last week I posted some speculation in spoiler tags, and in response was told that the actress who plays Beth was no longer on set for the second half of the season. Kind of gave it away 

I do enjoy badass / no second chances Rick !!.

The Morgan thing has to be part of the second half or else it's horribly random.

I suspect that the pastor (or whatever he is) is going to turn badass also (we can continued to wait for that to happen to Tyreese).


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

smak said:


> She said she found out while filming episode 7. She wouldn't have received the script for episode 8 until after filming 7.


No, according to the interview linked above, she got the script for 8, found out about her fate, and still had to shoot 7 ("the next day") under the pressure of knowing what was coming.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

She was a guest on Talking Dead for the November 2 episode. I would assume that she had finished shooting by then and had to keep it quiet.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

JohnB1000 said:


> I feel increasingly disappointed that I basically knew Beth's demise was coming, without knowing how. Last week I posted some speculation in spoiler tags, and in response was told that the actress who plays Beth was no longer on set for the second half of the season. Kind of gave it away


I am VERY happy I missed that. 
Even in spoiler tags I don't see why someone on here would post that in a show thread.
What's the point except to potentially ruin the moment for other people?

That said - I thought we were going to get a much more action packed mid-season finale. I am glad they wrapped up the hospital plot - at one point halfway through I thought they weren't going to have time to do the exchange.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Aw, man. I didn't expect Beth to get killed but stabbing Dawn with the scissors wasn't the brightest move in the world. 

Gabriel is like this show's Dr. Smith (Lost In Space). He serves no purpose but keeps getting everybody in peril.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

So for a bunch of seasons everyone has been like "kill beth next, she's useless". And now, they kill her off and everyone is like "what!!!! NO!!!"

I know I am going to get grief for this post. And I am giving it to myself because I liked her this season but can't forget all the years of watching when she was the one most wanted dead after Lori.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

getreal said:


> It takes a hard man for Kirkman to sit next to Emily on TD and witness the obvious pain he caused for this sweet little actress by killing her character off, though he did attempt to explain the rationale. I think Keegan had more difficulty hiding his emotions on the other end of the couch.


Oh, please.
Do you cry for the laid off coal miner who cannot feed his family or the older accountant who loses his position because of downsizing?
No, you'd say "Business, not personal" and move on.
And these are people actually suffering, not good looking young women on the cusp of a great career after leaving a very choice role on a very high visibility show. She'll be fine.

She's chosen a profession that is by definition a collection of small jobs of limited duration.
That's the way the cookie crumbles and everyone knows it.
It's hard to say goodbye and move on but that's how the business works. If she is too delicate to deal with it then she's chosen poorly. I think she was just caught in an emotional moment, but "hard man" and "pain"?
Nah.



Cainebj said:


> I am VERY happy I missed that.
> Even in spoiler tags I don't see why someone on here would post that in a show thread.
> What's the point except to potentially ruin the moment for other people?


It was spoiler tagged, you clicked.
People were wondering about how we knew it's Beth and I posted how we knew. Spoiler tagged it, too.
Lots of folks enjoy reading spoilers, talking about spoilers, discussing how spoilers are sussed out, and so on. 
If this isn't you then maybe don't click spoilers.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Cearbhaill said:


> It was spoiler tagged, you clicked.
> People were wondering about how we knew it's Beth and I posted how we knew. Spoiler tagged it, too.
> Lots of folks enjoy reading spoilers, talking about spoilers, discussing how spoilers are sussed out, and so on.
> If this isn't you then maybe don't click spoilers.


I was another who clicked and regretted it. IMO what was in that spoiler shouldn't have been in this thread, period.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

So it seems like Morgan was surprised to see Rick's name on the map.

Also, if you're running away from a car, it's a really bad idea to run in a straight line in the middle of the road. Shut Up indeed!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> Also, if you're running away from a car, it's a really bad idea to run in a straight line in the middle of the road.


Probably seen too many movies, where whenever something big is coming at you, you always run away directly in its path, not off to the side.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

betts4 said:


> So for a bunch of seasons everyone has been like "kill beth next, she's useless". And now, they kill her off and everyone is like "what!!!! NO!!!"
> 
> I know I am going to get grief for this post. And I am giving it to myself because I liked her this season but can't forget all the years of watching when she was the one most wanted dead after Lori.


Not me. I always thought she was pretty useless outside of being a baby sitter but I never wanted her dead.


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

Anubys said:


> So it seems like Morgan was surprised to see Rick's name on the map.


Do we know who wrote that note on the map? My memory is failing me.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

goblue97 said:


> Do we know who wrote that note on the map? My memory is failing me.


That was Abraham, wasn't it?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That was Abraham, wasn't it?


Yes, Abraham drew the map for Rick's group when GREATM left the church for DC and Rick's group were going to wait at the church until Daryl and Carol came back and then follow them to DC.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

The Walking Dead FB page has issued an apology for the spoiler:



> We heard your feedback to last night's post, and we're sorry. With zero negative intent, we jumped the gun and put up a spoiler. Please know we're going to work to ensure that, in the future, possible spoilers by official AMC social feeds are killed before they can infect, certainly before the West Coast (U.S.) broadcast of The Walking Dead. As always, thank you for watching, and keep the comments coming. We appreciate all of your support. #RIPSpoiler


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Cearbhaill said:


> ...
> It was spoiler tagged, you clicked.
> People were wondering about how we knew it's Beth and I posted how we knew. Spoiler tagged it, too.
> Lots of folks enjoy reading spoilers, talking about spoilers, discussing how spoilers are sussed out, and so on.
> If this isn't you then maybe don't click spoilers.


In all fairness, there are certainly different level of spoilers. I believe the poster of any spoiler has an obligation to give some heads-up as to what the spoiler pertains to so that people can make an informed decision.

I didn't click on anything last week and don't know the specific post, so maybe the poster did that....but I've seen it way too many times on this board where there will be zero text in the post and just a spoiler button. That's not cool, IMHO.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

pmyers said:


> In all fairness, there are certainly different level of spoilers. I believe the poster of any spoiler has an obligation to give some heads-up as to what the spoiler pertains to so that people can make an informed decision.
> 
> I didn't click on anything last week and don't know the specific post, so maybe the poster did that....but I've seen it way too many times on this board where there will be zero text in the post and just a spoiler button. That's not cool, IMHO.


While I agree that the poster of the spoiler should give some level of context of the spoiler, sometimes you can't do that without it in itself being a small spoiler. But a general rule of thumb that everyone should follow is that if you don't want to know, don't click the button. If the poster doesn't provide enough context for you to know what the spoiler is about and there are things you don't want to know, then do not click it.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Here's the post. No warning whatsoever.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10323337#post10323337


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

heySkippy said:


> Here's the post. No warning whatsoever.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10323337#post10323337


If it wasn't in spoiler tags you would have a point. If it is in spoiler tags and you don't want to be spoiled then don't click it.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

pmyers said:


> In all fairness, there are certainly different level of spoilers. I believe the poster of any spoiler has an obligation to give some heads-up as to what the spoiler pertains to so that people can make an informed decision.
> 
> I didn't click on anything last week and don't know the specific post, so maybe the poster did that....but I've seen it way too many times on this board where there will be zero text in the post and just a spoiler button. That's not cool, IMHO.


Point taken- I will provide some context should I choose to post spoilers again.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

heySkippy said:


> Here's the post. No warning whatsoever.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10323337#post10323337


The spoiler tag is the warning, that is its function.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

zordude said:


> The spoiler tag is the warning, that is its function.


I disagree. Information gleaned from real life events goes beyond being a spoiler and IMO doesn't belong here. At the very least, it merits a very specific warning.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

heySkippy said:


> I disagree. Information gleaned from real life events goes beyond being a spoiler and IMO doesn't belong here. At the very least, it merits a very specific warning.


I can understand that perspective, but that is not the current rule for spoilers.



> Previews of Next Week and other spoilers:
> Anything shown on the previews of next week is considered a spoiler on this forum, and must be tagged as such, using spoiler tags. (See below for instructions.) *Any spoiler information from other sources, such as articles, websites, webisodes, personal friendships with producers, etc., must also be tagged.*


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

zordude said:


> I can understand that perspective, but that is not the current rule for spoilers.


Yeah we all know the rules, but it's a courteous thing to do to give a few word explanation of what is in the spoiler.

As simple as

on TD they said ....
A rumor about a cast member...
Hasn't been on the set in weeks ...


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

heySkippy said:


> I disagree. Information gleaned from real life events goes beyond being a spoiler and IMO doesn't belong here. At the very least, it merits a very specific warning.


 I don't understand what you are saying. What does "beyond a spoiler" mean? It should not be considered as a spoiler and therefore should not be in spoiler tags? Or that the entire info (gleaned from real life events) should be suppressed altogether from the thread (i.e., censored)? 

I think that the revelation that Emily (aka Beth) was not seen on set for a period of time while Melissa (aka Carol) was on set gives the speculation (re: Beth's fate) credibility, and therefore qualifies as a spoiler.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

zordude said:


> I can understand that perspective, but that is not the current rule for spoilers.


The very next paragraph of the rules and guidelines says this:



> Tip: It is very helpful to label why you are spoiling something. For example, many people on this forum will watch and read spoilers of "previews of next week" since they are aired. But, they do not want to know anything from spoiler sites or people "in the know." So that these users can make the best choice, please be clear on why something is a spoiler.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

The problem with the linked post is that one person put spoiler tags on speculation from other sites. This means whoever responded, if they were obeying the social norms here, would respond in spoiler tags whether or not they were actually spoiling anything. But the response was a full-on spoiler response to speculation.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

People have to be very careful in labeling spoilers because those labels can become spoilers. For example, if someone labels a spoiler as an upcoming plot twist. That in itself becomes a spoiler because even though you might not have looked at the specifics of what the plot twist was, knowing one is coming can be a spoiler. 
In one of MikeMar's examples saying "Hasn't been on the set in weeks" can imply that there is a character death. Now in Walking Dead that is pretty much expected but it is still a minor spoiler. Even mentioning casting can be seen by some as a spoiler. 
The thing is that if someone has something in spoiler quotes and they don't label it appropriately and you don't want to be spoiled then don't click it. Just assume something without explanation is an extreme spoiler.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Azlen said:


> Just assume something without explanation is an extreme spoiler.


Wise words. :up:


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Cearbhaill said:


> Oh, please.
> Do you cry for the laid off coal miner who cannot feed his family or the older accountant who loses his position because of downsizing?
> No, you'd say "Business, not personal" and move on.
> And these are people actually suffering, not good looking young women on the cusp of a great career after leaving a very choice role on a very high visibility show. She'll be fine.
> ...


Exactly my point earlier....boo hoo....no tears here for the actress.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> The problem with the linked post is that one person put spoiler tags on speculation from other sites. This means whoever responded, if they were obeying the social norms here, would respond in spoiler tags whether or not they were actually spoiling anything. But the response was a full-on spoiler response to speculation.


Exactly  But honestly it doesn't bother me in the big picture of life all that much.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Back to the show.

Can anyone explain Dawn's attitude. I don't really understand her, she seemed reasonable but asking for Noah back seemed oddly inconsistent. Plus she was the one getting girls for the guys wasn't she ?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

JohnB1000 said:


> Back to the show. Can anyone explain Dawn's attitude. I don't really understand her, she seemed reasonable but asking for Noah back seemed oddly inconsistent. Plus she was the one getting girls for the guys wasn't she ?


I think she was trying to maintain the feeling among her "staff" that she was in charge and still deserves respect. If she allowed Rick to simply kidnap a couple of her people and trade them back without losing anything, it would appear she had been taken advantage of, and was therefore weak. Demanding Rick hand over Noah was her attempt to maintain her facade of strength with the rest of the Grady residents.

The thing about that whole exchange that I found surprising and unbelievable is that once Dawn shot Beth and then Dawn herself was shot, the rest of the people with guns drawn and itchy trigger fingers were able to refrain from turning that hallway into a giant bloodbath.


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## desulliv (Aug 22, 2003)

Anubys said:


> So it seems like Morgan was surprised to see Rick's name on the map.
> 
> Also, if you're running away from a car, it's a really bad idea to run in a straight line in the middle of the road. Shut Up indeed!


Serpentine! Serpentine!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

zalusky said:


> Did they renegotiate an extension at some point, I don't know.


Probably a hard show to renegotiate much. Who can't be killed off?



getreal said:


> At least they weren't as graphic with her head wound as they should have been for that type of shot, whereas they do not hesitate for graphic gooeyness for the walkers.


You saw the exit hole appear, right? Rick got splattered. With no experience in this, I assume that that was realistic (as opposed to walker heads).


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Not fully ballistics-versed, but when Daryl shot Dawn in the head, wasn't there a real good possibility that the people behind Dawn were in the line of fire and could have/should have been hit? Or would his shot not have exited her skull?


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

JLucPicard said:


> Or would his shot not have exited her skull?


It almost surely would have, but no telling in what direction or how many pieces the bullet might be in.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I thought he came at her at an angle...


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I was pretty dissapointed in the entire hospital story line. I don't think they did a real good job explaining much. I never understood what happened with Beth, never really understood the cops...there only seemed to be about 5-6 of them and could have been overtaken.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

pmyers said:


> I was pretty dissapointed in the entire hospital story line. I don't think they did a real good job explaining much. I never understood what happened with Beth, never really understood the cops...there only seemed to be about 5-6 of them and could have been overtaken.


I think that's how I feel. The hospital itself, and it's people, never made complete sense to me.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

LOL, what I love about these is not only that the spoil what happened, but they do so while actively telling readers not to click if they don't want to be spoiled. I thought the TV guide one was funny but the Yahoo one is better, hands down. Seriously WHAT is the point?


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

Tagging spoiler tags should be the norm for shows like this that have another medium telling the story, a talk show about it, previews along with so many other forums on the subject. It's easy to do...

Just an example; no spoilers in here.
Previews:


Spoiler



Beth wasn't in the previews for next week, maybe she is the one to go?


Talking Dead:


Spoiler



Beth is a guest on the show, maybe she is the one to go?


Casting:


Spoiler



Beth hasn't been seen on set, maybe she is the one to go?


Comics:


Spoiler



Does Beth even exist in the comics?



I would be willing to read previews and talking dead as I watch them and don't mind those "spoilers". I would never read casting and comics as I don't read the comics and I hate finding out about changes in a show because of some actors contract dispute (or any other issue).


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Then everyone can argue about whether the spoilers were tagged right, instead of just whether something should have had spoiler tags.


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

Does AMC have different channels for both West Coast and East Coast feeds?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

dtle said:


> Does AMC have different channels for both West Coast and East Coast feeds?


Yes, just like nearly all cable networks. We get AMCP, which means TWD doesn't start until 10 pm here, since it's airing at 9 pm PT and we're an hour ahead.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Yes, just like nearly all cable networks. We get AMCP, which means TWD doesn't start until 10 pm here, since it's airing at 9 pm PT and we're an hour ahead.


Directv only has the east coast feeds I believe so someone in the west who has Directv can see the show three hours earlier than their neighbor who has cable.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Azlen said:


> Directv only has the east coast feeds I believe so someone in the west who has Directv can see the show three hours earlier than their neighbor who has cable.


True, but that's not the question that was asked.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> True, but that's not the question that was asked.


Just expanding on the answer a bit that there are two different feeds and even people living next door to each other may be getting different ones. I know if you have HBO you usually get both the east and west coast feeds of their main channel, not sure if there are any cable systems that have both feeds of any basic cable channels but wouldn't be surprised if there were.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> Yes, just like nearly all cable networks. We get AMCP, which means TWD doesn't start until 10 pm here, since it's airing at 9 pm PT and we're an hour ahead.


I'm in Pacific Time and, so far (fingers crossed), our AMCHD channel is East Coast feed, so WD airs at 6pm, followed by TD at 7pm.

There was a snafu recently where Tivo changed the guide to Pacific coast feed but my cable company was able to find the problem and fix it. I really hope we stay with the East Coast feed because it makes it perfect for me to watch both shows on Sunday before I'm starting to fall asleep.

I did, however, notice that the SD version of AMC says it is Pacific Feed.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

sharkster said:


> .... I really hope we stay with the East Coast feed because it makes it perfect for me to watch both shows on Sunday before I'm starting to fall asleep....


Ummm......isn't that why you have a TiVo?


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> Ummm......isn't that why you have a TiVo?


Yeah, silly!  But what I do, because it's two of the shows I want to watch 'same-night' is that I tune in around 7:45 to 8:00 and start watching WD, while TD is still recording, followed by TD.

I don't make a point to watch very many shows same night and I would definitely NOT watch live, so I tune in shortly after WD has finished airing/recording, and TD is airing/recording, so that by the time I get to TD it's finished recording.

If they actually do change our AMCHD to Pacific Feed I'll just have to start watching these two shows on Monday. I don't like that.  But I'll get over it.

If the airings were at 9 and 10pm it would be too late for me to start on them because I'm often falling asleep a lot after 9:00, even though I stay up until almost 11 in case the dog needs to go outside. I like watching earlier in the evening so that I can actually remember what's happening.

There's a life story for ya, eh?


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

pmyers said:


> I was pretty dissapointed in the entire hospital story line. I don't think they did a real good job explaining much. I never understood what happened with Beth, never really understood the cops...there only seemed to be about 5-6 of them and could have been overtaken.





JohnB1000 said:


> I think that's how I feel. The hospital itself, and it's people, never made complete sense to me.


Add me to the list. The season started out with so much promise and there was such a big buildup wondering what happened to Beth....but they waited so long to even acknowledge Beth's disappearance that she had sort of already "died" in my mind anyway.

It seems like the entire hospital story line was written just so Beth could be killed. Other than that, there was no purpose. The story hasn't moved forward at all, other than gaining Noah. I think they could have covered the hospital in 1 or 2 episodes instead of dragging it out as long as they did, although thank goodness it didn't last all season.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

yeah...having the East Coast feed and living on the West Coast, is awesome!


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

sharkster said:


> There's a life story for ya, eh?


Nah, that's exactly how I watch it except that I do the falling asleep/rewind/repeat endlessly part pretty regularly toward the end of TD.

But I found that if I left the tv on all night, opened an eye somewhere along the way and hit "rewind" that TD is coming on again just in time for my morning coffee.

Agree that the entire hospital arc was ill conceived and poorly executed- everyone's motivations (if there were even any apparent) were so random and vague. 
When we have to ask each other what happened (what did Beth "get," how did Carol recover, why are Tyrese and Father Gabriel too useless to live, why everyone tolerated Dawn) and don't come to a clear conclusion three days after the fact then the story was poorly told.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> Ummm......isn't that why you have a TiVo?


Having TiVo doesn't help if you want to watch the shows on the night they air (to avoid spoilers and participate in discussion) but the show doesn't start until 9 or 10 pm and you can't stay up that late.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

sharkster said:


> Yeah, silly!  But what I do, because it's two of the shows I want to watch 'same-night' is that I tune in around 7:45 to 8:00 and start watching WD, while TD is still recording, followed by TD.
> 
> I don't make a point to watch very many shows same night and I would definitely NOT watch live, so I tune in shortly after WD has finished airing/recording, and TD is airing/recording, so that by the time I get to TD it's finished recording.
> 
> ...


Ha....sounds like mine, too, minus the dog. I'm an early riser, so 9 p.m. or later shows are always watched the next day (or later if they're not among my favorites). But WD is usually my treadmill show early Monday morning before work...


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> Ha....sounds like mine, too, minus the dog. I'm an early riser, so 9 p.m. or later shows are always watched the next day (or later if they're not among my favorites). But WD is usually my treadmill show early Monday morning before work...


Great exercise idea! Run away from the zombies!


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Bierboy said:


> sharkster said:
> 
> 
> > I really hope we stay with the East Coast feed because it makes it perfect for me to watch both shows *on Sunday* before I'm starting to fall asleep.
> ...


Actually, despite his response to you, it's not why he has a Tivo because a Tivo can't possibly allow him to watch it Sunday night before he's too tired. Tivos allow for delayed viewing - that's watching it later, not earlier.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> The thing about that whole exchange that I found surprising and unbelievable is that once Dawn shot Beth and then Dawn herself was shot, the rest of the people with guns drawn and itchy trigger fingers were able to refrain from turning that hallway into a giant bloodbath.


I'll add two more things to the list: nobody left the hospital to go with Rick's group and nobody got around to raping Beth except for the one creepy guy that one time!



desulliv said:


> Serpentine! Serpentine!


What movie is this from? I can almost place it, but can't...thanks for driving me crazy!


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## LlamaLarry (Apr 30, 2003)

Spies Like Us?


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

The In-Laws


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## BSUGrad (Jan 11, 2004)

Azlen said:


> The In-Laws


Correct. Excellent movie. The original with Peter Falk and Alan Arkin is better than the remake with Albert Brooks and Michael Douglas.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

LlamaLarry said:


> Spies Like Us?


Interesting...I believe that's where I know it from too.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

BSUGrad said:


> Correct. Excellent movie. The original with Peter Falk and Alan Arkin is better than the remake with Albert Brooks and Michael Douglas.


"The In-Laws" with Peter Falk & Alan Arkin is hilarious!! I recognized the line "Serpentine! Serpentine!" immediately. LOL! If you haven't seen this movie, check out the Falk/Arkin original 1979 version.






PS: Isn't *Jimmy Kimmel* 2014 a doppelganger for *Alan Arkin* circa 1979?


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

"Generation Kill" is my favorite reference for "Serpentine!", wherein it is subverted by the Recon Marines.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

getreal said:


> "The In-Laws" with Peter Falk & Alan Arkin is hilarious!! I recognized the line "Serpentine! Serpentine!" immediately. LOL! If you haven't seen this movie, check out the Falk/Arkin original 1979 version.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

BSUGrad said:


> Correct. Excellent movie. The original with Peter Falk and Alan Arkin is better than the remake with Albert Brooks and Michael Douglas.


In much the same way that a 100 watt lightbulb is better than a AA battery flashlight just about to run out of juice.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)




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## ducker (Feb 21, 2006)

nice!


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## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

I was infuriated after watching this episode mainly because I didn't see it coming until right before it happened. I didn't realize that the writers were planning to kill off yet another major character in the mid-season finale.

Here's why Beth's assassination by the writers bugged me:
- Another attractive blonde female main character killed for no particular reason
- It seems like she was killed simply for shock value. How does Beth's death make the show any better? Is it just to free up more time for other characters? If so, then why didn't the writers kill Beth off last season when they had her out looking for moonshine and setting fire to cabins in the woods in the middle of the night? Why spend half of this season getting the group to her and then shooting her in the head when they get there? Who in the writing room thought this was a good idea? 
- It makes most of the already only-semi-coherent "hospital" storyline irrelevant/unimportant, unless of course, Noah becomes an important character down the line (good luck with that)
- Is this the TWD system -- spend lots of time getting viewers to like/love the characters and then kill them off for no reason? Isn't that just sadism? Is Daryl going to cut himself shaving and bleed out in the season finale? 
- It reinforces the belief I've had since they killed off Andrea for no particular reason that the whole point of the TWD show/games/comics is simply that "*everybody* dies." Don't get attached to _anybody_, because everybody (except maybe Rick; this is his story, after all) is going to die. 
- If you've got to kill off a beloved character, do you really have to give her a crappy death? Can't main characters have meaningful deaths, like T-Dog?
- I felt really, really bad for Laurie Holden a couple seasons ago because as a 42-year old actress (at that time), Andrea was probably the best role of her career. How many 40-something actresses get to be sexy kick-ass zombie killers on widely-watched TV shows? And the writers basically just stomped on her head by killing her character, and giving her a pretty unimportant death. Similarly, Emily Kinney was an unknown before TWD, and her career was just starting to take off as a singer, and as an actress on a popular TV show. And again, they just decided to kick her in the head for no particular reason other than (IMO) the writers wanted to shock people. So they basically took a couple women who were enjoying high points in their careers and (IMO) cruelly ended their success just for (IMO) shock value.

I guess to summarize, I'd like the show to not waste any episodes/storylines on character development of characters that they plan to kill off in the near future, not kill characters simply for shock value, and then finally to at least give popular characters meaningful deaths.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

JLucPicard said:


> Not fully ballistics-versed, but when Daryl shot Dawn in the head, wasn't there a real good possibility that the people behind Dawn were in the line of fire and could have/should have been hit? Or would his shot not have exited her skull?


Or that he would have even cared.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

T-Wolves said:


> I guess to summarize, I'd like the show to not waste any episodes/storylines on character development of characters that they plan to kill off in the near future.


I hope you enjoy Rick and Daryl, because they're the only characters in the fantasy version of your show.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

T-Wolves said:


> - I felt really, really bad for Laurie Holden a couple seasons ago because as a 42-year old actress (at that time), Andrea was probably the best role of her career. How many 40-something actresses get to be sexy kick-ass zombie killers on widely-watched TV shows? And the writers basically just stomped on her head by killing her character, and giving her a pretty unimportant death.


Andrea had to die to atone for her sins. I pretty much agree with you about Beth, though.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Beth is an attractive blonde? I'm sure there are many people who would disagree with that aseessment.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

T-Wolves said:


> I guess to summarize, I'd like the show to not waste any episodes/storylines on character development of characters that they plan to kill off in the near future, not kill characters simply for shock value, and then finally to at least give popular characters meaningful deaths.


That's not how this show works.

You're asking for a talented writing staff- one who knows each character's history, keeps track of it, and has some sort of goal in sight as far as how they see that character developing both short term (one season) and for the length of the series. You need well developed plots and smaller stories that work both logically in the moment and that serve in the larger story over the season and show as a whole.

What we have here is a group of writers and showrunners more interested in pandering to various fan factions, generating water cooler moments, and trending on Twitter than telling a compelling story.

Almost the only reason they _ever_ make an attempt at developing a character is after they have decided to kill them off and want us to care about it.
IMO that's doing it backwards.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

I think the showrunner wants things to be unpredictable. Some people die after a crafted arc like the Governor and some people should just die out of the blue.

Frankly they should have a major character die by simply falling down the elevator shaft because they didn't look. I remember LA Law doing that. 

The showrunner has said he wants it to be real and in real life people just die for no good reason. In Beth's case she was just plain stupid about it. The thing that would have improved upon it would be to put in a random episode not as a cliffhanger.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

T-Wolves said:


> How does Beth's death make the show any better?


Beth? Who's Beth?
It will be better because we no longer have to stop and think every time she shows up on screen because she looks familiar and then realize she's a regular on the show and then try to remember her name and then giving up on her name because who cares she's not important anyway.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

T-Wolves said:


> I was infuriated after watching this episode mainly because I didn't see it coming until right before it happened. I didn't realize that the writers were planning to kill off yet another major character in the mid-season finale...I guess to summarize, I'd like the show to not waste any episodes/storylines on character development of characters that they plan to kill off in the near future, not kill characters simply for shock value, and then finally to at least give popular characters meaningful deaths.


I had almost the opposite take. We've felt for a while now that the writers had been dragging their feet (pun intended) on killing off a core character for far too long. We hadn't lost a major character since Herschel in S4.1! (No, Bob does *not* count, he didn't even join the show until S4.1) Not too ZA-realistic, especially considering the group splitting up and then getting captured at Terminus. So when the show-runners finally nut up and decide to kill one off, they picked the _least important_ character from the pre-prison survivors. It's almost as if they're shying away from picking off someone who'd really shake up the group.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> Beth? Who's Beth?
> It will be better because we no longer have to stop and think every time she shows up on screen because she looks familiar and then realize she's a regular on the show and then try to remember her name and then giving up on her name because who cares she's not important anyway.


I think the character specific episodes they are doing now lends itself better to binge watching. That way it was only a few hours ago that you saw her versus months.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Cearbhaill said:


> Almost the only reason they _ever_ make an attempt at developing a character is after they have decided to kill them off and want us to care about it.
> 
> IMO that's doing it backwards.


Yeah. I saw it coming during the Daryl/Beth episode when she said that she wasn't Andrea or Michonne but was still surviving. Most of social media was tired of her and she was the next to go.

T-Dog had zero dialog at the farm and it also became a social media joke. He had to go early Season 3 (Tyreese was on his way and there was only one black guy allowed on the show -- another social media joke).

Lori and Andrea had to go. No tears (except Rick and Michonne) over those. I am still mad that Hershel and Dale were killed off.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

If I could bring back one character it would be Axel hands down.
I _really_ liked him.


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## Mr.Scarface (Apr 25, 2005)

T-Wolves said:


> I was infuriated after watching this episode mainly because I didn't see it coming until right before it happened. I didn't realize that the writers were planning to kill off yet another major character in the mid-season finale.
> 
> Here's why Beth's assassination by the writers bugged me:
> - Another attractive blonde female main character killed for no particular reason
> ...


LOL......Beth has been dead for a LONG time in the comics. You better get used to main characters dying off. Some Characters who are alive on the show, are dead in the comics and some Characters alive in the Comics are dead on the show (Andrea is still alive in the comics).


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

No comics spoliers are supposed to be in this thread


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

T-Wolves said:


> I was infuriated after watching this episode mainly because I didn't see it coming until right before it happened. I didn't realize that the writers were planning to kill off yet another major character in the mid-season finale.
> ...
> It seems like she was killed simply for shock value. How does Beth's death make the show any better?


It's a rough world they're in. People die. If they didn't we'd just be watching Survivor. Or Star Trek with the red-shirts.

From the length of your post, you're clearly invested. Would you be if things were easy? If they were really secure in the prison or the town and living a quiet, farming life?


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

T-Wolves said:


> Here's why Beth's assassination by the writers bugged me...


Apparently you and 30,000 other fans share your opinion...

http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2014/12/walking_dead_fans_launch_petit.html


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

MikeekiM said:


> Apparently you and 30,000 other fans share your opinion...
> 
> http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2014/12/walking_dead_fans_launch_petit.html


Apparently the number is now close to 47,000...

For those interested, here is the link to the petition:

https://www.change.org/p/the-walking-dead-bring-beth-back


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

47,000 of 14,800,000 is about 0.3% which is virtually nothing.


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## Jagman_sl (Mar 14, 2001)

Just out of curiosity, why are people so attached to this character all of a sudden? I mean, she's been pretty bland since we met her, but people are acting like this is the worst death to ever happen on Walking Dead.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Jagman_sl said:


> Just out of curiosity, why are people so attached to this character all of a sudden? I mean, she's been pretty bland since we met her, but people are acting like this is the worst death to ever happen on Walking Dead.


Which character?


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Jagman_sl said:


> Just out of curiosity, why are people so attached to this character all of a sudden? I mean, she's been pretty bland since we met her, but people are acting like this is the worst death to ever happen on Walking Dead.


"People" aren't.
"Beth fans" are.

The response and petitions are small change to what you would see had they killed any other of our original crew and even some characters that were added later, like Michonne.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Cearbhaill said:


> "People" aren't.
> "Beth fans" are.
> 
> The response and petitions are small change to what you would see had they killed any other of our original crew and even some characters that were added later, like Michonne.


Beth's fans are people and she isn't original, she was added later.

The only originals left are Rick, Carl, Carol, Daryl, and Glenn
I guess that Morgan could also qualify as an original considering he was a big part of the first episode and is still alive and still on the show.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

That petition is the stupidest thing ever. Do those people actually even watch this show? Maybe they think they're watching _Once Upon a Time_ or something.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Her moving performance on TD may be the reason for the petition. 

I think more people would have signed a petition to bring back Hershel.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

madscientist said:


> That petition is the stupidest thing ever. Do those people actually even watch this show? Maybe they think they're watching _Once Upon a Time_ or something.


Really? People don't have a right to petition?


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

brianric said:


> Really? People don't have a right to petition?


Sure, people have the God-given right to do stupid things. Others have the right (and obligation) to point out that stupidity.

I mean, did you see the size of the hole in Beth's head?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Kinda funny that the petitioners want to bring Beth back on a show about zombies.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

ej42137 said:


> Sure, people have the God-given right to do stupid things. Others have the right (and obligation) to point out that stupidity.
> 
> I mean, did you see the size of the hole in Beth's head?


:up:


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I'm not saying they should do it, but just because Beth was killed doesn't mean she has to be off the show, necessarily. The actress could easily be brought back for extended flashbacks, which would be especially easy to do given the fact that her character is related to other show characters. I could see there being a Beth/Herschel/Maggie flashback at some point. There'd have to be a good story reason for it, though - something spurred by more than just a fan petition.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

danterner said:


> I'm not saying they should do it, but just because Beth was killed doesn't mean she has to be off the show, necessarily. The actress could easily be brought back for extended flashbacks, which would be especially easy to do given the fact that her character is related to other show characters. I could see there being a Beth/Herschel/Maggie flashback at some point. There'd have to be a good story reason for it, though - something spurred by more than just a fan petition.


I'd bet you dollars to donuts that the fans vocal enough to wage petitions around would be happy with nothing less than a Beth/Daryl pairing. From what I can tell it's this faction that's all up in arms about her being killed. It's not Beth herself they are in love with as much as it is the Beth+Daryl thing they think they saw.

I'm sure there are EmilyK fans out there, too, that are genuinely sorry to see her leave the show but they can go off and follow her in her other careers. They're not the ones carrying on so much at least from what I've seen.


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## Vendikarr (Feb 24, 2004)

danterner said:


> I'm not saying they should do it, but just because Beth was killed doesn't mean she has to be off the show, necessarily. The actress could easily be brought back for extended flashbacks, which would be especially easy to do given the fact that her character is related to other show characters. I could see there being a Beth/Herschel/Maggie flashback at some point. There'd have to be a good story reason for it, though - something spurred by more than just a fan petition.


About Maggie in the comics... Read at your own risk...



Spoiler



At this point in the story, Maggie becomes depressed and suicidal because of the loss of her entire family. And ends up hanging herself.

But she doesn't do it right and survives.


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> Kinda funny that the petitioners want to bring Beth back on a show about zombies.


Chain her up in the shed and let her play Xbox.



danterner said:


> I'm not saying they should do it, but just because Beth was killed doesn't mean she has to be off the show, necessarily.


An identical cousin!



Cearbhaill said:


> I'd bet you dollars to donuts that the fans vocal enough to wage petitions around would be happy with nothing less than a Beth/Daryl pairing. From what I can tell it's this faction that's all up in arms about her being killed. It's not Beth herself they are in love with as much as it is the Beth+Daryl thing they think they saw.


Awww, that's so sweet. It's not about her, it's about Daryl _hurting_.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

The could have Beth wake up and do the "wow, I just had the _worst_ dream!" thing.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

brianric said:


> Really? People don't have a right to petition?


How do you turn "it's stupid" into "they don't have the right"???????


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

tlc said:


> An identical cousin!


They laugh alike, they walk alike,
At times they even talk alike --


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

tlc said:


> An identical cousin!


Not sure how many have seen Beer Fest but one character dies, and his cousin or brother or something shows up.

They say, let's call you Landfill (the dead guys nickname) and we'll never speak of this again! And the rest of the movie is just like it never happened


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

heySkippy said:


> The could have Beth wake up and do the "wow, I just had the _worst_ dream!" thing.


If they did that, I would be so completely impressed with how she was on TD that I would immediately post about it.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Ereth said:


> They laugh alike, they walk alike,
> At times they even talk alike --


Whoa--how many people remember that? D)


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

stellie93 said:


> Whoa--how many people remember that? D)


Everyone over 50 or 55 maybe.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Ereth said:


> They laugh alike, they walk alike,
> At times they even talk alike --


My fav show of the time!


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

ej42137 said:


> Sure, people have the God-given right to do stupid things. Others have the right (and obligation) to point out that stupidity.
> 
> I mean, did you see the size of the hole in Beth's head?


It was all a dream... 

Update: Oops...



heySkippy said:


> The could have Beth wake up and do the "wow, I just had the _worst_ dream!" thing.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

To be honest, I like the idea of an identical cousin a LOT better. 

<-- old enough to remember The Patty Duke Show, but don't really.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

stellie93 said:


> Whoa--how many people remember that? D)





Beryl said:


> Everyone over 50 or 55 maybe.





heySkippy said:


> To be honest, I like the idea of an identical cousin a LOT better.
> 
> <-- old enough to remember The Patty Duke Show, but don't really.


It's still on TV today, so you don't have to be old at all. My 20yr old niece loves The Patty Duke Show and The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis.


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## jr461 (Jul 9, 2004)

Finally watched the entire series over the last couple of weeks. Love binge watching!!

Anyway, regarding Beth's death, this is a group of people who make stupid decisions frequently. She could have just walked out but decided to stab Dawn with a small scissors. In the shoulder, no less. I was also beginning to like the character and feel bad for Daryl and Maggie but that's the way it goes. 

It also continues to show that they are not afraid of killing off core characters, which I think does heighten the suspense when life or death situations arise (with very few exceptions). In many (most) shows there is no suspense when major characters are in peril due to the predictability (not that she was necessarily major but they spent a lot of time for us to know her better, including her budding relationship with Daryl). 

As far as Morgan, I must have missed his tracking the group. I don't recall seeing him since Rick, Carl and Michonne went back to Rick's old town for supplies (and they ended up getting the crib). Where are you guys seeing this?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jr461 said:


> As far as Morgan, I must have missed his tracking the group. I don't recall seeing him since Rick, Carl and Michonne went back to Rick's old town for supplies (and they ended up getting the crib). Where are you guys seeing this?


He appeared in two or three post-credits sequences over the course of this season.

It's a bit annoying...I never would have known about them if they didn't show up at the beginning of recordings of shows that came after WD showings.


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## jr461 (Jul 9, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> He appeared in two or three post-credits sequences over the course of this season.
> 
> It's a bit annoying...I never would have known about them if they didn't show up at the beginning of recordings of shows that came after WD showings.


Thanks, I'll have to flip through these. I always stopped the recordings for this season as soon as the credits started as I didn't want to see the previews.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jr461 said:


> Thanks, I'll have to flip through these. I always stopped the recordings for this season as soon as the credits started as I didn't want to see the previews.


There was one at the end of the season premiere, and then a longer one at the end of one of the later episodes, either S05E07 or S05E08.


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## LlamaLarry (Apr 30, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> He appeared in two or three post-credits sequences over the course of this season.
> 
> It's a bit annoying...I never would have known about them if they didn't show up at the beginning of recordings of shows that came after WD showings.


I only knew about it from this thread, so I missed them.


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