# has anyone thought of dumping DirecTivo for DishNetwork just to get more HD channels?



## Leila (Apr 28, 2006)

has anyone thought of dumping DirecTivo for DishNetwork 
just to get more HD channels?


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I can't see dumping DirecTV to get Dish for any reason. Charlie sucks!


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

And Rupert is such an angel. (Actually, in many ways I admire them both)

You may get more channels, but nobody watches "channels", they watch content. I would closely determine if there is really content that you want on those channels before making the jump. Most Voom and even non-Voom customers decided that there really wasn't much of real value there.

Another good reason is to get a better HD DVR than DTV's newest POS.


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## packerfan (Jan 8, 2002)

Dish has more channels now, but directv plans to add 150 channels in 2007. Can't really see the point in switching.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

If I switch to anything, it will be cable (or hopefully FIOS.) Satellite is dead.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

packerfan said:


> Dish has more channels now, but directv plans to add 150 channels in 2007. Can't really see the point in switching.


Not exactly. They are adding the infrastructure, the _potential capacity_ for 150 channels. There are not going to be probably more than about 30-40 HD (non-OTA) channels in 2007, and only a handful of them (mostly the channels we already have) will have much HD content to speak of. I think DISH will probably add capacity at about the same rate as DTV, and will probably stay ahead of them for some time.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Arcady said:


> If I switch to anything, it will be cable (or hopefully FIOS.) Satellite is dead.


If Tivo follows, I agree. Tivo drove me to DTV, and them killing the golden goose is driving me away. Tivo was and is the killer app.


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## nabuch (Aug 25, 2000)

As a DTV subscriber for 13 years or so, who switched to DISH about 3-4 months ago, the difference is night and day. I love everything about DISH, including the VIP22, that, in my opinion is better than TIVO, or at least the HDTIVO. More HD channels is great, especially STARZHD, but better quality all around and for less money is the real difference.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

TyroneShoes said:


> If Tivo follows, I agree. Tivo drove me to DTV, and them killing the golden goose is driving me away. Tivo was and is the killer app.


I'd bet there are more Sunday Ticket subs than D-TiVo subs.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

> Dish has more channels now, but directv plans to add 150 channels in 2007.


Actually, DTV will be launching new satellites that provide the ability to add up to 150 more channels in HD. They just announced that they will be adding about 40 HD channels sometime around mid 2007. There aren't 150 HD channels available nationally at the moment and I doubt that there will be that many for quite some time.

Everyone is griping that DTV isn't providing enough HD content but the fact is, there just aren't that many HD channels available anywhere no matter which provider you use. Dish added the VOOM channels but most of those don't have the content that will attract a wide audience. Most of them are just eye candy for showing off your new HDTV set. You'd tire of them rather quickly and settle back into watching channels you actually like, even if they're in SD. There's not much point in having HD without being able to enjoy the programming. Cable doesn't have that many more HD channels than DTV when you compare the lineups.


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## rickaren (Oct 30, 2002)

I _added _ their full service to my D* Tivo DVR receivers. I am so pleased with their PQ and programing I use DISH first for all HD. Use D* as a back-up for OTA HD and all SD recording. Their VIP 622 DVR is fantastic. Somedays I think I should dump DirecTV as you ask and get another VIP 622 DISH DVR, but maybe all those diehard D* customers will be correct in about one year!


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## CessnaDriver (Oct 25, 2003)

packerfan said:


> Dish has more channels now, but directv plans to add 150 channels in 2007. Can't really see the point in switching.


I thought that we their motto for 2006.

Seriously.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

Leila said:


> has anyone thought of dumping DirecTivo for DishNetwork
> just to get more HD channels?


No, for several reasons...

-First of all, I would NEVER have ANY DISH DVR for my "primary" TV service. They just have TOO many reliability issues - namely where they have their annoying problem of deciding to dump the entire hard drive on a whim. Sorry, but in my book, that right there is a DEAL BREAKER for me! And you E* guys that will chime in a say "oh that's NEVER happened to me" - so WHAT? It HAS happened to many others, as their crying & wining posts on the other boards will attest to, so don't go there!

-Assuming I was willing to overlook the "kinks" in E*'s DVR's, there is one fact that is also unacceptable to me & that's their cheapening out on ONE measly off-air tuner! Considering that E* will probably NEVER get HD locals in my market means that I would need to record my networks off-air - ONE off-air tuner does NOT cut it for me.
Of course, I _could _ "move" to Chicago like I did w/D* - but then, E* does NOT carry PBS, CW, MYTV, etc. Again, because of their bandwidth constraints, it will be highly unlikely E* will be adding the other HD locals anytime soon. D* DID add the CW & will most likely be adding the rest of the HD locals next year.

So either way, E* lacks on the local network HD content over D*.

-As far as all those other "wonderful" HD channels E* carries - what is it you REALLY are getting over D*:
VOOM channels - couldn't give a rat's heiny about 'em  
HGTV/Food/National Geographic - would be nice, but I do NOT watch them in SD now, so I doubt I'd be watching them anymore in HD 

So at least for me, there is NOTHING on E* HD right now that is a must have.

Now to tell you the truth, on our local cable service from Insight, they just added 3 new national HD channels, one of which is MHD - I would MUCH rather have this than ANY of those other HD channels E* currently has. Insight also carries EVERY single local channel in HD that is available. (we only now do NOT get CBS, but that is because our local CBS affiliate is still dickin' around trying to get it up & running   )

The DVR's Insight uses are the Moto 6412's. While not a great DVR, it's probably about as good as an E* DVR & I would NOT have to pay ANYTHING upfront to get one. (or 2 actually)

So truthfully, if I WERE to dump D*, it would be to go back to my local cable co & NOT E*.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

bidger said:


> I'd bet there are more Sunday Ticket subs than D-TiVo subs.


Most estimates I've seen put ST subscribers at around a million and DirecTV Tivo subs at around 2 million.


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## Richly917 (Dec 9, 2006)

dishrich said:


> No, for several reasons...
> 
> -First of all, I would NEVER have ANY DISH DVR for my "primary" TV service. They just have TOO many reliability issues - namely where they have their annoying problem of deciding to dump the entire hard drive on a whim. Sorry, but in my book, that right there is a DEAL BREAKER for me! And you E* guys that will chime in a say "oh that's NEVER happened to me" - so WHAT? It HAS happened to many others, as their crying & wining posts on the other boards will attest to, so don't go there!
> 
> ...


Do you know if "all" future Directv HD channels will be MPEG4? If so my Tivo HR10 will become useless.


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## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

nabuch said:


> As a DTV subscriber for 13 years or so, who switched to DISH about 3-4 months ago, the difference is night and day. I love everything about DISH, including the VIP22, that, in my opinion is better than TIVO, or at least the HDTIVO. More HD channels is great, especially STARZHD, but better quality all around and for less money is the real difference.


You mean more money I think. Dish is the home of small fees that add up. They used to nickel and dime me for every little thing like not having the dvr plugged into a phone line ($5 a month), and they also charged an extra $5 for every dvr plus an extra $5 for every receiver on top of that.


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

nabuch said:


> As a DTV subscriber for 13 years or so, who switched to DISH about 3-4 months ago, the difference is night and day. I love everything about DISH, including the VIP22, that, in my opinion is better than TIVO, or at least the HDTIVO. More HD channels is great, especially STARZHD, but better quality all around and for less money is the real difference.


Same here, I was with DTV for 6 years. And as stated it was way cheaper than to stay with DTV, even with all of the "fees" as another poster pointed out. I know on this board it is not a popular choice, but we are very glad we did it. If DTV gets their act together I'll return.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Fees are misleading. Not only do you have to compare exact service levels but you have to compare them now, not last year or last decade. One company is higher than the other, sure, but that seems to change every six months. As such, they are generally the same over time, and that makes fees a non-issue when finding a provider. Having the actual channels you want, having a quality level you will accept, and having a PVR you can live with are what really separates the men from the boys. The rest is the same all over.

I'd like to go on the record and state that I like the individual anecdotal horror stories, and I appreciate that subs are fickle and will go where the better service is. I chose DISH because they had a better situation for me back in the day, better channel packs at a lower rate. I went to DTV because of the DTivo and the comparitively horrible PVRS at DISH a few years ago, and by that time the service level and cost was pretty identical. Now, I think the VIP622 is probably well-above the HR20, although neither are in the same league as any Tivo. DISH has more and better HD now. Next year, who knows who will be on top?

Brand loyalty is idiotic. Vendors have to both earn and keep our loyalty over time. That's how the marketplace guarantees us the best product, is the ongoing continuous competition. That only works if folks are willing to abandon mediocre vendors for better vendors, no matter who they are. I am rooting for everybody to have a better product tomorrow than they have today.


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## strejcek (Mar 15, 2006)

Richly917 said:


> Do you know if "all" future Directv HD channels will be MPEG4? If so my Tivo HR10 will become useless.


Yes all future HDTV channels will be mpeg4. Eventually all DTV's HDTV channels will be mpeg4, so one day in the future, the HR10 will be useless for HD recording over satellite.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

I keep hearing how there isn't any HD content out there to support more HD channels. What about putting the other 5 HBO channels I get in HD instead of just one of them. After that they could start broadcasting all the Starz channels in HD. Followed by 50 or so PPV movie channels in HD. All of these things would make me happier with requiring any additional HD content. Everything looks better in HD because then i don't have to stretch it to 16x9 to fill my screen. Then's there's the theory that content will expand to fill any new HD bandwidth that comes available. Not much point in making content if there's no place to send it yet.


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## harley3k (Jul 19, 2006)

HiDefGator said:


> I keep hearing how there isn't any HD content out there to support more HD channels.


I hear that from people on this board too, but I just switched to Fios like several of my friends in town that also used to have D*, and here are the facts about what I got from D* and what I now get with FIOS for _less money per month_.

*With D* all I ever got* from my Satellite feed was 2 HD Channels:
HBO - HD
Showtime - HD
I got my locals throught my antenna and reception was often times shotty.
The HD Package never seemed like it was worth the extra $11 per month to me so I had it turned off after it wasn't free.

*With FIOS I get* 8 Local Channels in HD and not just the top 4 I would get by going with D* MPeg4 setup.
ABC - HD
NBC - HD
CBS - HD
FOX - HD
PBS - HD
CW - HD
KTXA - HD (UPN)
KDFI - HD (Local Dallas Channel)

The following HD channels I get as part of my basic $34.95 package... There is NO "HD Package" upcharge to get these like with D*:
TNT - HD
ESPN - HD
ESPN2 - HD
NFLNet - HD
FSN SW - HD
HDNet
HDNet Movies
UniversalHD
Discoery HD
National Geographic HD
Wealth HD
MTV - HD

My Premium HD Channels Include:
HBO - HD
Cinemax - HD
Showtime - HD
The Movie Channel - HD
Starz - HD

Personally for me switching was a no-brainer.

-h


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

Richly917 said:


> Do you know if "all" future Directv HD channels will be MPEG4? If so my Tivo HR10 will become useless.


NO it won't - it will continue to work just FINE for OTA HD prog, thank you.  
Since most of my HD recording is of the nets, this won't be a problem for me.
AND, the picture quality will be better than getting locals through the dish, less compression...


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

TyroneShoes said:


> Fees are misleading. Not only do you have to compare exact service levels but you have to compare them now, not last year or last decade.


Well, in the case of E*, I have to disagree with you on some of their bogus fees - there is NOTHING misleading on some of them; they ARE there & DO cost you MORE money over D*, for NO benefit:

-A DVR fee on EVERY DVR, on TOP of the add'd receiver fee - I DON'T think so!  
(& yes, I realize that if you have AEP, there are NO DVR's fees at all, but it's the same on D*, so that's a wash  )

-Added fees for the 2nd tuner if you do NOT have a landline - again, nothing but a totally BOGUS fee. Obviously if you are a cell-only house, it's a BIG problem & I have many clients who are. D* does NOT do this at all.

-The BS $6 "HD enabling fee" just so that you can get OTA HD, if you choose NOT to take one of their bloated HD paks. Again, D* ONLY cares if you activate the HD box with something - you do NOT even have to take locals through the dish if you don't want to. Which leads me to another bogus BS of E*'s...

-You do NOT get OTA DT guide info if you do NOT take THEIR locals through the dish.

I understand about comparing apples to apples between the 2 providers, but it's NOT that hard to have a much HIGHER bill w/E* for the SAME (or less) service. I guess if folks are desperate enough to pay skinflint Charlie all these BS feeds just to have those VOOM channels, I guess to each his own...


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

You can harp on the "fees", but when I added up the total packages, I get more HD with Dish, plus TMC and Encore channels for $4 less dollars a month than what I was paying DTV. I have 4 TVs, (1 HD) and 2 Dvrs, just like I did with DTV. I pay less and get more, so the "fees" that skinflit Charlie adds on don't add up to as much as DTV's prices where the "fees" are included in the package. The only bogus fee I would agree with you on is the landline fee for a DVR, but realistically with DTV you aren't or weren't (when I was with them) allowed to have a DVR without a phone line. I have Vonage and the Dish DVRs don't have a problem with it.

So as with anything else it is what the customer wants and is willing to pay for it. I wanted as much HD as I can get right now, and was fortunate that the price with Dish is the cheapest of the bunch (DTV or Comcast). Where you live it might be more, but the blanket statement about it costing more does not work here.


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## ShiningBengal (Mar 19, 2001)

packerfan said:


> Dish has more channels now, but directv plans to add 150 channels in 2007. Can't really see the point in switching.


Those 150 channels do not exist now. Highly likely they won't then either. You can't "manufacture" a channel just because you have the bandwidth to deliver one (or 150).

Unless, of course, you are into Kung-Fu reruns, or the Shopping Channel in HD.

If there were any really good HD offerings of the quality of The Discovery Channel HD, they would be on the air NOW. There is plenty of bandwidth to go around if DirecTV just had the guts to cut some of the total dreck.

I mean, how many channels can you watch--if you have a life, that is?


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## ShiningBengal (Mar 19, 2001)

HiDefGator said:


> I keep hearing how there isn't any HD content out there to support more HD channels. What about putting the other 5 HBO channels I get in HD instead of just one of them. After that they could start broadcasting all the Starz channels in HD. Followed by 50 or so PPV movie channels in HD. All of these things would make me happier with requiring any additional HD content. Everything looks better in HD because then i don't have to stretch it to 16x9 to fill my screen. Then's there's the theory that content will expand to fill any new HD bandwidth that comes available. Not much point in making content if there's no place to send it yet.


As I have stated in another post, there is plenty of bandwidth available. You just have to make a decision on what deserves an HD presentation. Shopping Channel? Every movie ever made?

If DirecTV has 150 more "slots" for HD Channels available, they will be filled primarily with crap. You can take that to the bank.

PPV movies don't make 5 times as much for DirecTV as SD ones, but they would have to in order to justify the bandwidth. That won't change in the near future.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

dishrich said:


> their annoying problem of deciding to dump the entire hard drive on a whim.


is this different than when my tivo hard drives crash?


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

newsposter said:


> is this different than when my tivo hard drives crash?


The Dish box I have, 622, doesn't dump the drive. It rids itself of Dish's selections, my recordings have always remained intact. He doesn't like Dish, and hey, that's fine, to each his own.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

newsposter said:


> is this different than when my tivo hard drives crash?


Yes, because this is NOT what I was talking about on E* DVR's - it's NOT that the HD's are crashing, but for whatever reason, their software causes the HD to be reformatted in some way, causing all recordings to get wiped clean. The receiver then continues to work fine, but you just DON'T have any of your already recorded shows to watch. (until you get more recorded) I have never heard of a Tivo just "dumping it's contents" like the E* boxes do - if YOU have, post some postings here, OK?
Of course, if the HD suffers a true crash on EITHER system, you're obviously SOL.



super dave said:


> The Dish box I have, 622, doesn't dump the drive. It rids itself of Dish's selections, my recordings have always remained intact.


Well GOOD for you - other E* users are NOT so lucky, as MANY, MANY E* folks on the other boards come on & cry & whine about it. (maybe they're just are making it up  )
Also, your box hasn't even been out a year - let's wait & see for awhile before you push your luck. Hey you know, maybe E* FINALLY figured out a way to keep their DVR's from doing this by now - gee, it ONLY took them a few YEARS to accomplish this... 



> He doesn't like Dish, and hey, that's fine, to each his own.


No, I just don't like how their POS DVR's work - & just like YOU don't like D* anymore...   BUT, by the same token, I am not exactly enamored with the new D* "non-Tivo" DVR's, either, so right now I'm just playing it by ear. I might end up chucking D* & going back to cable. (not that their Moto DVR is necessarily anything to write home about, but...)



> but realistically with DTV you aren't or weren't (when I was with them) allowed to have a DVR without a phone line.


I have many D* clients w/out phone lines on their DVR's & they have NOT had a problem with them since day 1. D* hasn't had a problem with ANY of my clients w/out landlines, nor have they gotten charged a penalty for it, either. You must have been given bad information regarding this, considering the numerous posts on THIS very board regarding this... 



> I have Vonage and the Dish DVRs don't have a problem with it.


What does THIS have to do with cell-only folks - as I just said, MANY folks are forgoing ANY kind of house phones, INCLUDING VOIP.  They figure it's kind of silly to pay for duplicate service when their cell phones work just fine for their needs. Some of these same folks do NOT have ANY kind of broadband internet in their house, so their goes your VOIP solution as well.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

dishrich said:


> I have never heard of a Tivo just "dumping it's contents" like the E* boxes do - if YOU have, post some postings here, OK?


yes it seems of great importance to you (your emphasis) so i will monitor the internet and report back any cases I find immediately


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

newsposter said:


> yes it seems of great importance to you (your emphasis)


Uh, I think anyone with common sense WOULD think that a DVR that does NOT dump it's contents on a whim, WOULD think the same - but I guess if them highly-sought VOOM channels trump having a reliable DVR for someone, then it's their loss & they can just keep drinking the E* kool-aid...   

And why the E* converts keep coming into a *TIVO-only* forum & jumping up & down how they LOVE their E* DVR's, is beyond me - especially considering there are at least THREE other *E** forums that I know of, where they can do this...


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

I know nothing about E and dont know what you are even talking about. 

Can someone else tell me if what he's saying is making sense or important? I wouldnt want to miss anything, especially since he's shouting at me it must be important.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

"Content on Hard Drive Corrupt" Message

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=65633


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## Jerry_K (Feb 7, 2002)

How well does that Multi Room Viewing work on the VIP622?

Yesterday my lovely wife saw an Ad for Dish with HD, I told her TiVo will not work with Dish, all she said was, "I would rather have TiVO"


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

Jerry_K said:


> How well does that Multi Room Viewing work on the VIP622?


All it does is provide an additional, independent viewing output to another/additional rooms, that is different from the primary output. But, that 2nd output will NOT output HD signals, only SD or downconverted HD. The 2nd output can either be playback of an existing DVR show different from the 1st output, or can be one of the 2 satellite tuners or off-air tuner.

But, like most things with E*, there are a couple of catches:
-if you do NOT have it connected to a phone line, there's an added $5 charge for the 2nd satellite tuner. Matter of fact, even if you use it in "single mode", where you send all outputs to the same TV (like the D-Tivo's) & do NOT use the 2nd output, you STILL get charged for the 2nd tuner regardless.  

-it only has ONE off-air tuner, compared to 2 on the D-Tivo's. If E* does NOT carry your local networks in HD, this could be very important to you. I will concede that with the 622, you CAN record 3 shows (2 sat & 1 off-air) all at the same time, but again, if you do a lot of network prog off-air, the single OTA tuner may cause conflicts.

-since it only has 2 total satellite tuners just like the D-Tivo's, each room would be limited to only being able to record 1 live sat channel at a time & watching a pre-recorded show. (many folks think BOTH rooms can record one live show while watching ANOTHER live show, but you can't with this setup)



> Yesterday my lovely wife saw an Ad for Dish with HD, I told her TiVo will not work with Dish, all she said was, "I would rather have TiVO"


Sounds like a smart lady...


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

dishrich said:


> "Content on Hard Drive Corrupt" Message
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=65633


Guess I am not the only "lucky" one, you apparently didn't read your own posted link. What that message does is dump all of the Dish recorded junk, their version of VOD, it does not affect any of the recordings saved by the user. As explained in detail in this thread:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=79795&highlight=corrupted



> And why the E* converts keep coming into a TIVO-only forum & jumping up & down how they LOVE their E* DVR's, is beyond me - especially considering there are at least THREE other E* forums that I know of, where they can do this..


Speaking for my self, I had a DTiVo for 6 years and want to stay informed on what is happening with it. If it is gone forever, then I might be also. But, I doubt your name is Bott, and therefore you don't own this forum, so if you have a hard time with us E* folks reading a free board maybe you ought to start your own and lock us out.



> I have many D* clients w/out phone lines on their DVR's & they have NOT had a problem with them since day 1. D* hasn't had a problem with ANY of my clients w/out landlines, nor have they gotten charged a penalty for it, either. You must have been given bad information regarding this, considering the numerous posts on THIS very board regarding this.


Here is your own quote regarding this policy:

_To the OP - unfortunately, it is true that D*'s policy of a MANDITORY phone line seems to be only really enforced when subs have D* Tivo's, because they need a phone line to get software updates. (which is true, since they have to make an activation calls to get installed) But, since D* will most likely NOT be making any more updated to these things (except for the recent one to the series 1 boxes) it really is a moot point. I have several D-Tivo clients w/out phone lines & they do NOT have problems with their DVR's, nor has D* cut them off. Bottom line - keep your mouth shut about not having a phone line & all will be well._ 
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4049576&&#post4049576

Re-Read any of the user agreements / contracts for DirecTV.
The phone line requirement has been there since day one.

I don't know what Dish has done to you that you feel you must anyone that thinks they are OK. I used feel a loyalty to DTV, even had friends and family join up. The way things have gone and the lack of HD made my decision to change and try out something else. So far it is fine, when FIOS comes in next year I might switch again, but when I was looking, posters with so much venom as you have, I would ignore, even if your information is valid. I always ignore the kool aid drinkers that can never say a bad thing or the person that only says bad things.

And if all of this discussion bothers you so much why are you even entering a thread with the title asking who left DTV for Dish, you didn't.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

super dave said:


> Guess I am not the only "lucky" one, you apparently didn't read your own posted link. What that message does is dump all of the Dish recorded junk, their version of VOD, it does not affect any of the recordings saved by the user.


So WHAT - it's STILL dumping content of some sort, due to their pi$$-poor software. 
OK, fine - it's ONLY the VOD stuff, as you pointed out - congrats, you get a cookie.
It still doesn't change the fact that E* has ALWAYS had a historically poor track record on DVR software - all you have to do is search on the other boards & you'll easily find this out. (but ONLY if you can handle the truth...) Here, I'll get you started:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=56270&highlight=erased+shows+hard+drive
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=30999&highlight=erased+shows+hard+drive
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=47123&highlight=erased+shows
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=43607&highlight=erased+shows

*And as I already said before, perhaps E* IS getting better on their software *- but geeze, they OUGHT to be after ALL this time! Maybe the 622 will be the charm now.



> so if you have a hard time with us E* folks reading a free board maybe you ought to start your own and lock us out.


I NEVER said a thing about reading this board - there IS a difference between _reading_ a board, & _posting_ about subjects that have NOTHING to do with said board. (Hint: THAT'S why they have an E* forum, a D* forum, DVR subforums within each of them, etc...) I actually DO post things about E* stuff, but over in the E* forum where it belongs. 

And, maybe I could say the same thing to YOU, about folks warning potential subs the pitfalls of the E* DVR's - or is that supposed to stay a secret?



> Re-Read any of the user agreements / contracts for DirecTV.
> The phone line requirement has been there since day one.


Again, so what??? I have the live clients, W/OUT the phone lines, that were ALL activated & have continued having their D-Tivo's work just fine w/out the phone line, which is pretty much what my "other" post said. Have NO idea why you would post another post of mine basically saying the same thing. 

BTW, since you obviously can find these "requirements" of the providers, E* has had the same "boilerplate" requirement since day one as well - the difference is, E* now actively charges a "penalty" for NOT having one on certain receivers - if they were NOT doing this, I would not even be discussing it.



> I don't know what Dish has done to you that you feel you must anyone that thinks they are OK.


Haven't a clue what you're trying to say here... 



> but when I was looking, posters with so much venom as you have, I would ignore, even if your information is valid. I always ignore the kool aid drinkers that can never say a bad thing or the person that only says bad things.


I think I ALREADY told you that perhaps this E* DVR is better than their previous offerings. I ALSO told you that I thought D*'s DVR's were NOT anything to write home about, either. (probably now E* & D* DVR's are now about neck in neck in many regards) So what I am trying to say is, I DO agree with some of your points.

Sorry, but I DO bring up the good AND bad in BOTH products - sorry if you consider this such "venom". Unfortunately, the truth DOES hurt sometimes - guess if YOU consider it "venom", so be it... 



> And if all of this discussion bothers you so much why are you even entering a thread with the title asking who left DTV for Dish


Because I FELT LIKE IT!  
Seriously, just trying to keep others from making the same mistakes - ain't bothering me at all, as I sure as hell AIN'T switching to an E* HD DVR anytime soon. (I DO have an SD E* 721, but ONLY for the limited prog I get from DISH - & I NEVER would depend on it for my main DVR functions - I KNOW first hand about their quirks, considering I sell them as well... )   :down:


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## bluesman64 (Jan 25, 2005)

dishrich said:


> -You do NOT get OTA DT guide info if you do NOT take THEIR locals through the dish.


I have D* at home and E* at work. The E* DVR is not nearly as user friendly as HDTivo. The deciding factor, however, is the lack of integration of OTA HD (or DT, for that matter) schedule into the E* guide. With probably 75%+ of my HD recording on OTA, that is a critical (and deciding) factor.


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## shacky (Oct 16, 2003)

I will follow whomever carries NFL Sunday Ticket.
I love me some Tivo but I love me some football even more.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

dishrich said:


> ...And why the E* converts keep coming into a *TIVO-only* forum & jumping up & down how they LOVE their E* DVR's, is beyond me - especially considering there are at least THREE other *E** forums that I know of, where they can do this...


It might be beyond both of us, but I have a theory, which is that people need validation of their decisions specifically when they are not really sure they have made the correct one. The weaker the person or the more-questionable the decision, the more the need to validate it somehow.

If you go DISH or DTV or Tivo or Replay and you have no buyer's remorse, no nagging doubt about how green the grass is "over there", you couldn't be bothered for a second wasting time posting about how great your decision was to the unconverted. There is simply a subconcious need for validation in those folks, because they are scared to death that they made the wrong choice.

IOW, they need to "just keep telling themselves" that they were right, over and over, to make themselves hopefully feel better, and in the process they end up boring to tears everyone else within reach. It's similar to Stockholm syndrome, where they ally themselves with what they know and what they have, just because they both just don't know any better and are more comfortable making a bad decision than in being undecided. IOW, weak, little minds, for the most part.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

GOOD ANSWER TY - that actually makes the MOST sense (particularly the last part) !!! :up:  

Maybe this latest post will make them all feel better about their choice...   

*Drv 522 Just shutting off *

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=82821


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## chedlin (Apr 13, 2003)

I just wen Tivo series 3 since the HD DirecTivo is obsolete. I was very torn. I left cable to go to DirecTV for the Tivo and no other reason. My series 2 DirecTivos have MRV and extraction support. 

I was very torn on going series 3, HR20, or VIP622. I would love it if there were DVR forum where everyone could express their opinions and someone could get a grasp of all 3(4 if you count the HR10) choices.

I ultimately decided that with the resale value of a lifetime series 3 and the age of my lifetime series 1 that there was little risk, and as a 6.8 year Tivo user I couldn't leave.


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## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

I'm very sold on the Tivo, and so is my family. My wife in particular generally stays away from the a/v tech toys in the house (she doesn't use the Xbox hacked with XBMC, for example).

She sure uses the Tivo, though. And when the 6.3 problems arose and I temporarily rolled back to 3.1.5f, she immediately started giving me grief over the slowness/lack of folders/etc.

She won't tolerate switching to a non-Tivo interface easily.

Having said that, the decision may be forced upon me. I have reception problems with CBS OTA, and things are going to be worse here in Chicago come 2009 due to where stations are relocating (frequency-wise). So my choices will be to get the HR20 (giving up not only the Tivo UI but all the hackable goodies), or to go cable and get Comcast-based DVRs w/Tivo (once that's available)...but that will cost a lot more per month than I am paying now. Or go cable/S3, but that will still raise my monthly bill, PLUS add a monthly bill to Tivo, PLUS I'm going to have to put out thousands for multiple boxen.

I don't like any of those choices.

Another choice (which I'm not nuts about either) may be the most likely: home-built DVRs to handle all OTA duties, combined with a beefier outdoor antenna/preamp/etc. At least if I use an open-source package like mythtv I can customize it to behave the way I want. On the other hand, it will be a lot of work, and I'll need "player" PCs in each room. On the gripping hand, I can stuff 8 tuner cards into the back-end box.

The compromise position may be to beef up the antenna/preamp/etc. for now and continue to use the HR10 for as long as I can.


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## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

Oh, and a random Dish comment.

My next-door neighbor has Dish. (She tends to be very aggressive on price shopping, and she and her husband just wanted a very basic package without premium channels or anything. Dish was the cheapest offer.)

Anyway...after months/years of hearing me rave about DVRs in general and Tivo specifically, they got a DIsh DVR. (622 I *think* -- I don't remember for certain. It's a dual tuner model, although they use it in that wacko Dish way where one box serves two rooms.)

Recently the husband has accepted a new job in the Netherlands, so they're hurredly making all kinds of preparations. One of the things that came up was all the programming on the DVR. They aren't videophiles -- the DVR is currently connected to a 19" SD tube TV via coax/RF. So I recommended they just pick up a cheap DVD recorder, and I even went over and hooked up the DVD-R in-line so they could do the old-fashioned hit-play-on-the-DVR-and-record-on-the-recorder deal to burn things off. They were happy.

Two days later she called up. Her son was in tears. In attempting to get their content burned off, they "did something" (hey, we've all gotten a call like that, right..."I don't know what I did, but now..."). Now...EVERYTHING was gone. Every recording.

I wasn't there, so I don't know what they did. Perhaps they did a lot more than "something." I can't even speculate.

All I do know is...there's just no way to do that on a Tivo. You can't even delete everything in a folder with just a few buttons. I mean, you can do a C&DE, but it takes several menus, gives you big warnings, and makes you do the ThumbDn-ThumbDn-ThumbDn-Enter thing.

Just my two cents. I was with Dish once and have never considered moving back, because it offers me personally nothing over DirecTV. Yes, they have more HD channels, but I've looked at them extensively and find nothing I'd ever actually watch.


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

Leila said:


> has anyone thought of dumping DirecTivo for DishNetwork
> just to get more HD channels?


Yes, I'm sure we have thought about it for some reason or another. What stops me dead in my tracks are a few of the Dish gotcha's that are deal breakers to me (maybe not you)

VIP 622 only has 1 OTA tuner - no HD locals via sat in my town, so this is a deal breaker.

Dish fees 
- you MUST sub to sd locals (+$5) w/Dish to get OTA guide data for FREE OTA HD locals, not so with D*

- DVR fee for each DVR + mirror fee for second DVR

- lease fee on top of the $200-$299 initial cost of the 622

it appears to me that the Silver HD pkg w/ dish is close to TC pkg on D* (I could be wrong), so given this, for me to get the equivilent of TC + locals + DVR + 2nd DVR + HD with dish, I'd go from $66 (D*) to $80 (E*).

This is not the direction I want my sat bill to go.


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## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

I can't even figure out what it would cost me, because their web site is...well, not great. I want four locations. One HD, 3 SD. Each with dual-tuner PVRs. But it won't let me select that, and it keeps wanting me to share a DVR between two rooms (which I don't want to do).

One OTA tuner is a deal-breaker for me, however.


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## jcricket (Sep 11, 2002)

cheer said:


> I'm very sold on the Tivo, and so is my family. My wife in particular generally stays away from the a/v tech toys in the house (she doesn't use the Xbox hacked with XBMC, for example).
> 
> She sure uses the Tivo, though. And when the 6.3 problems arose and I temporarily rolled back to 3.1.5f, she immediately started giving me grief over the slowness/lack of folders/etc.
> 
> She won't tolerate switching to a non-Tivo interface easily.


My wife is the same. I had the Dish PVRs way back in the day and they drove me freaking bananas. We switched to DirecTV in 2001 (I think) with the first DirecTivos, right about the time the dual-tuner came online, and never looked back. The HR10 has been much more of a pain, with all the initial OTA setup hassles. My wife's not fond of all those issues, and we're just at the point now where it's stable and she's fine with it. The audio drop-outs certainly didn't make her happy - reinforces her opinion that new gadgets aren't worthwhile. So, switching to the HR20, a cable DVR or Dish network for $5 here or there or another couple HD channels is just not in the cards.

If, in a year from now, the HR20 is just "super reliable", all the Seattle MPEG4 locals are available and D* offers us two HR20s for close-to-free along with a free slimline dish, I think I could get my wife to go along with it. Or, if the Series 3 gets cheap enough and reliable enough, I could justify switching to cable to keep the Tivo interface (my wife likes the interface).

I prefer option#1 (because it's free), but only if the HR20s are rock-freaking-solid. Option #2 is only good if the Series 3s are really cheap (<$300) and there's a big decrease in the monthly fee. $12.95 per Tivo is just too damn much when I currently have "Free Lifetime DVR service" from DirecTV.


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

cheer said:


> I can't even figure out what it would cost me, because their web site is...well, not great. I want four locations. One HD, 3 SD. Each with dual-tuner PVRs. But it won't let me select that, and it keeps wanting me to share a DVR between two rooms (which I don't want to do).
> 
> One OTA tuner is a deal-breaker for me, however.


Yeah the dish site is confusing - here's what I understand from it.... 
Pick a pkg

bronze - $50
Silver - $60
Gold - $70
Platinum - $100

All pkgs have the same HD content of 30 channels, but differ by the # of SD channels. To me Silver was the option I was looking at because it has FX, bronze does not. Platinum of course has all the premium channels.

Add $5 for locals (need for guide data, even if you only watch FREE HD locals via OTA)
Add $6 for DVR ( for each box, not per account)
Add $5 mirror for each additional box past the first one
Lease fees - I think (could be wrong) there is an additional lease fee
Oh yeah and pay $200 up front to get the 622, but you get $20/mo CR for 10 months, so that is a wash after the first year of service

Please, anyone with Dish, correct anything incorrect above, I am just trying to sort thru it to really get to the full cost per month.


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## Bigdogsbigdogs (Dec 18, 2006)

First of all, Ill apologize for the length of this post. If you dont care about my ordeal and want my just my response to the D* vs E*, scroll to the last few paragraphs.

I signed up with E* in 1994 for 2 of their standard 1 tuner SD boxes. Years later, when the 501 PVR's became available I waited for the bugs to be worked out then upgraded. I, like everyone else, encountered many issues with the receiver and grew less patient as D*'s Sony SAT-T60 continued to get rave reviews. After several years, when D* started offering competitive pricing and E* kept screwing around with locals, I finally bought 2 T60's and hopped over.

The equipment worked well, Tivo was great and I had no problems with the programming but my bill was NEVER right and customer service was 3rd rate. After a while, I just accepted the fact that I was probably going to pay more than expected given misc. erroneous charges and just enjoyed my TV. About a year later, I upgraded my tv again to a top of the line Optoma SV-65XF and demanded all the HD content I could afford. I began shopping E* & cable for options but could not find anything as slick or stable as the HR10-250. I called D* and they made me a deal I could not refuse.

A week later, my installer had his foot through my bedroom ceiling, had drilled countless holes through my wainscoting, pulled insulation down into my sump pump (ultimately resulting in a flooded foundation) drilled 20 holes in my roof trying to get a good reception etc. etc. etc. Later, his buddy direct-connected him on his Nextel to inform him that 50 was on their way. He left in a hurry with exposed wires laying/hanging everywhere, holes, everywhere, his ladder up against my house and his tools scattered everywhere and no reception.

D* instructed me to have all necessary safety issues taken care of immediately and they would send a field person (not installer) to inspect/repair/reimburse. They also offered a credit towards my current bill and I would not have to pay a penny for programming until everything was fixed. 5 months later, I had incurred $1500 of expenses, missed 4 days of work, had 4 different people visit to inspect only to be told we should have taken care of you long ago, get an estimate for everything and well have a check to you.

I submitted 3 estimates, the lowest being $6,000 and waited/followed up on for 3 more months. Finally, D* told me that they were not responsible but the installer was and they would facilitate a new claim. This procedure was expedited over 2 months. The installer agreed that we had a valid claim and he would make an offer the next day. A week later, I called him, he offered 30% of the claim and I denied. I then got a letter from both D* & the installer stating that they have concluded there involvement with the case and that In fact I must pay the entire programming bill, including for the time while I was down.

I spent another 2 months trying to get a supervisor to re-visit the issue but was stonewalled.

We spent nearly a year without anything but 3 OTA stations and finally decided to abandon ship, cut our losses and try E*. Dont think for a minute that D* does not want their early termination fees as well!

I chose 2 VIP622s and the HD Bronze for starters. Its only been a week now but so far so good.

VIP622 review> It is much MUCH faster in all respects compared to any Tivo or other DVR I have ever seen. The remote is a little cluttered but Overall, navigation seems just as logical as the HR10-250 with a few extra perks and 1 minus. The HR10 had a slightly better search feature when is came to finding events to record. The most impressive feature by far is the conflict resolution. I found this by scheduling too many recordings at 1 time when I was prompted to auto-resolve the issue. I allowed it to do so and within 2 seconds, the receiver searched for alternate broadcasts of the programs, suggested shifting 1 and after accepting, my list of scheduled events was re-populated and all was well! Aside from that, both my Wife & I enjoyed discovering all of the features and within 1 day, we agreed that the VIP622 was easier to learn, more logical, much quicker & offered many features we wish Tivo had.

OTA performance > Remember, I mentioned only having 3 OTS stations for months while I worked things out with D*. While my programming was shut off, I still had my OTA antenna coming through the HR10 offering me the 3 channels. When the VIP622 was connected, I had 24 channels that came in perfectly! Talk about OTA signal strength!

Image quality > While Im not able to compare live D* to E*, I can compare recorded content on the HR10 and VIP622. I always use Discovery HDs Alien Insect as my benchmark. If you have not seen this, it is incredible for both moving & still video in 720P & 1080i! Anyway, considering how the VIP622 is so greatly improved & runs circles around the HR10, I expected similar results with image quality. Honestly, I have yet to notice any real difference. I have noticed 3 subtle things though. First, as the VIP622 is faster, there are also fewer hangs & blips associated with HD broadcasts. Second, the HR10 tends to crush blacks & plume the reds a little beyond even what my ASF calibrated set would like to display. While they are both very highly resolved images, for some reason, the VIP622 tends to seem just a tiny bit soft compared to the HR10. Ive yet to decide if this is a result of the HR10 falsely creating a more vibrant image by crushing & pluming or if the range and/or temperature of the VIP622 is a little off. Either way, considering that my set is currently tweaked for the HR10, perhaps I can adjust my set a little towards the VIP622. Overall, where I would give the HR10 a 9.25, I would have to give the VIP622 an edge but only a very slight one.

Programming/content delivery > I simply have to say, I am impressed! For years Ive listened to people talking about the useless content on the majority of Voom stations. While I will probably only ever watch 20 of the 29 HD channels, that is still much more than what D* offers. I have found most channels to be very good and I have found Equator to be awesome! Even though some channels re-run a lot of shows, being able to record just 1 great show a week is all I need and I can usually find at least 1 show a night worth watching.

Customer service > My install was complete 2 days after ordering it WOW! The installers were much more polite, professional & capable than the D* guys were. I never waited more than 5 minutes to speak to an E* rep when I had questions or slight set-up issues. D* is notorious for 20-30 minute hold times! All in all, everyone I spoke to just seemed happy to do their job.

Long story short, for those of you who like me, thought there was no real reason to switch to E*, I say you should give it a good hard second look. Aside from the damage D* caused to my home, I really wish I was not so stubborn and loyal to D* for so long. E* has really improved significantly on just about everything in just a few years.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

ShiningBengal said:


> As I have stated in another post, there is plenty of bandwidth available. You just have to make a decision on what deserves an HD presentation. Shopping Channel? Every movie ever made?
> 
> If DirecTV has 150 more "slots" for HD Channels available, they will be filled primarily with crap. You can take that to the bank.
> 
> PPV movies don't make 5 times as much for DirecTV as SD ones, but they would have to in order to justify the bandwidth. That won't change in the near future.


I would rather watch 150 channels of HD crap then 150 channels of SD crap. I'm not sure how this makes DTV any different than cable which doesn't have the capability to handle 150 HD channels in the first place.

I don't see where the comment about HD PPV needing to generate 5 times the revenue of SD PPV makes sense. It does on the current sats where it has compete with SD PPV channels. But on the new sats there would be no point in putting an SD channel there. So since it already has to be an HD channel it might as well be a PPV channel.


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## Bigdogsbigdogs (Dec 18, 2006)

My last post was quite lengthy with several points/issues regarding my experiences with both D* & E*. Aside form everything else, there is 1 thing that just really takes the cake and for me, is reason enough to consider E* over D* and worth a separate mention from my last post.

I've had 2 HR10's for a year now and really have had no major issues short of OTA performance. Considering that prior to this, I've never had an OTA or an HD receiver, as well as the fact that I live on the Eastern Shore of Maryland (45 miles from the Baltimore & 55 from Washington towers) I just chalked up my poor reception to the limitation of my antennae and the distance to the towers.)

I've even had the opportunity to hook up my neighbor's HR20 and was only able to pull in 1 other channel but it went in & out unreliably.

Then the day came when I replaced my HR10's with VIP622's. Within 1 minute, every single channel (20+) that I could receive were populated in the list. At first I just thought that they were found but would be spotchy at best. Well, it's been a week now and we have not seen a single blip! Every channel is coming in with atleast an 80% signal strength!

If I would have know about this ahead of time, it would have been reason enough for me to switch!

I hope this was worth a read to you guys!


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## WhiteSox (Dec 20, 2004)

With E* and their VIP622, are you able to capture HD Locals without a OTA?


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## psywzrd (Mar 25, 2003)

shacky said:


> I will follow whomever carries NFL Sunday Ticket.
> I love me some Tivo but I love me some football even more.


My thoughts exactly. Whatever allows me to watch my Steelers every Sunday, I'm on board with it. I really wish DirecTV didn't have exclusive rights to the NFL package - I would switch to cable in a heartbeat.


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## Bigdogsbigdogs (Dec 18, 2006)

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'capturing HD locals without an OTA.' The only way to 'see' locals is by using an OTA or if you subscribe to them.

Currently, I do not subscribe to E*'s offerings of locals SD or HD locals. I have seen both D*'s & E*'s locals in both HD & SD in several markets and have not been impressed by either. I have yet to see an OTA set-up that does not do a better job than both D* & E*'s compressed broadcasts.

With D* and for the HR10-250, I bought a long range Yagi style amplified antenna made by Centronics. I was told by many that this type of antennae would be my best bet and that Centronics was 1 of only 3 manufacturers that most pro's would use themselves. After reading reviews, I settled on it.

We (my local antenna guy & I) tried everything in the book for nearly 3 weeks to get things working better. He was determined to help me because I live in a pretty nice, new community where everyone is buying atleast (1) 65" high end display if not a projection system in a dedicated theater and he wanted their business too.

The end result was spotchy reception of ABC, NBC & CBS at best.

When i switched to E*, the first VIP622 plugged in and over 20 channels filled the menu almost instantly. To this day, they all come in perfectly, I'm not paying anything for them and am very happy.

Good luck!


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

my wife was ticked they took off the stillers in the 4th quarter last week. Not that i'd pay it, but would the sunday ticket have enabled us to see this on another channel?


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## Bigdogsbigdogs (Dec 18, 2006)

It all depends. I once had the Sunday Ticket from D* and thought it was a big waste of money. Most of the game I wanted to watch were blacked out due to them being broadcast in my region by a local affiliate. In this case, living in Maryland, I too watched the Steelers get clipped in the 4th and the Sunday Ticket would not have offered it to me anyway.


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## WhiteSox (Dec 20, 2004)

Bigdogsbigdogs said:


> I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'capturing HD locals without an OTA.' The only way to 'see' locals is by using an OTA or if you subscribe to them.
> 
> Currently, I do not subscribe to E*'s offerings of locals SD or HD locals. I have seen both D*'s & E*'s locals in both HD & SD in several markets and have not been impressed by either. I have yet to see an OTA set-up that does not do a better job than both D* & E*'s compressed broadcasts.
> 
> ...


I would like to capture my locals in HD. I know with D* they offer a OTA, but with their HR 20, if I understand correctly the OTA is not required to receive HD Locals.

With E* HD DVR does it work the same to get HD Locals?

Thanks for the help.


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## Bigdogsbigdogs (Dec 18, 2006)

With both D*'s HR10 & HR20 as well as E*'s 622, you can get you HD locals with an OTA or by supscription. The only caveat to this is that in some markets, either D* or E* may not offer your locals in HD...yet. In this case, you would only be able to get HD locals by OTA.

WIth both, D* and E*, you can contract them to install an OTA for you along with your new or upgraded equiptment you order with them. In my opinion, I would never allow another D* installer in my home again. I have had better luck with E* installers but even still, I would not buy an antenna from a Sat company. I would buy one from a local antenna guy who knows your market and have him install it. You will pay more but they will be much more skilled at dialing it in than a Sat guy would be.

Hope this helps.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

Bigdogsbigdogs said:


> Then the day came when I replaced my HR10's with VIP622's. Within 1 minute, every single channel (20+) that I could receive were populated in the list. At first I just thought that they were found but would be spotchy at best. Well, it's been a week now and we have not seen a single blip! Every channel is coming in with atleast an 80% signal strength!
> 
> If I would have know about this ahead of time, it would have been reason enough for me to switch!


Well, that's nice & all, BUT the 622 still ONLY has ONE OTA tuner, while BOTH D* HD DVR boxes have always had two. Sorry, but since most of my recording IS from local HD networks, & since our HD locals will probably NEVER be carried by E*, that IS a deal breaker for me. One measley-a$$ OTA tuner just will NOT cut it - if E* ever has sense enough to put dual OTA tuners in their boxes, THEN we can talk...


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

one tuner? ouch....i record 4 OTA many nights a week..how many receivers is that?


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## Bigdogsbigdogs (Dec 18, 2006)

Considering the higher cost of D*, would you consider getting 2 vip622's with E*? Pay the $200 upfront for each and get $40 back a month for 10 months. Also, you could subscribe to HD locals for 1 source and your antenna would be your 2nd.

I have to tell you, I'm not one to try and change someones mind, especially when it comes to Audio & video, however, I was SOOOoo suprised with the 622 with it's speed, performace, quality, better than Tivo interface and the 30 some HD channels, all at a cheaper price, that I have to stress it's worthiness, despite a few shortcomings.

Also consider, when you pick up 6 broadcasts from the same channel, (for example I get 11, 11.1, 11.2, 11.3 etc) some of those channels offer re-runs and/or time shifted programming.


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## WhiteSox (Dec 20, 2004)

Since E* only has one OTA tuner, that means if I use a OTA for my HD Locals I can only record or watch one local at a time, correct?

Now if I subscribe for my locas, I do not need a OTA, and would be able to record two HD local channels at the same time, correct?

Thanks for the help.


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## jtlytle (May 17, 2005)

packerfan said:


> Dish has more channels now, but directv plans to add 150 channels in 2007. Can't really see the point in switching.


Oh Oh, TiVo need to create a new machine - S4 4 tuner HD


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## dancancount (Nov 5, 2005)

I stopped reading after 'dumping Directivo', I'm with Directv for as long as they have their exclusive contract with the NFL.


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## Bigdogsbigdogs (Dec 18, 2006)

Or, if you have an OTA and subscribe, you could record 3!


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## WhiteSox (Dec 20, 2004)

Bigdogsbigdogs said:


> Or, if you have an OTA and subscribe, you could record 3!


Thanks for the help, I truly appreciate.

Eventhough I have not had any issues with D*, I think I might give E* a shot.


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## pdawg17 (Mar 1, 2003)

Does E* offer RSNs in HD yet? If so, which areas?


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## Bigdogsbigdogs (Dec 18, 2006)

I really don't mean to sell anyone on anythiing, infact I hate when people do that to me and I think this forum is very slanted towards Tivo.

I have been a long time Tivo & D* supporter. Up until this month, I like many people here on this forum, would never would take anyone seriously when they spoke ill of D* or Tivo.

Now that i have seen first hand, all that I can do is encourage everyone to not be opinionated or loyal. Doing so kept me from having my ideal system for a long time.

Though it may not be for everyone, the facts are, E*'s VIP622 is much faster, offers a far better interface than any other DVR, competes with Tivo and has great video performance and spectacular OTA performance (far better than my HR10-250's ever had.

Good louck and let me know when you decide!


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## Bigdogsbigdogs (Dec 18, 2006)

Sorry, RSN's < ??


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## bwaldron (Mar 16, 2003)

Bigdogsbigdogs said:


> Sorry, RSN's < ??


Regional Sports Networks; i.e., the various Fox Sports Networks, NESN, YES, etc.


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## Bigdogsbigdogs (Dec 18, 2006)

Yes, thay do offer regional sports networks. I don't know enough about them to compare them, but Fox, Espn etc. are included.


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## lawnmowerdeth (Jan 11, 2003)

dancancount said:


> I stopped reading after 'dumping Directivo', I'm with Directv for as long as they have their exclusive contract with the NFL.


I thought that until this year. I've decided they've priced me out of it. When it was $149 a year that was fine. But crossing $300 is just out of line. Cheaper to go to the bar now. Not that I can't afford it, I just think it's ridiculous.

So I'll probably switch providers when they stop supporting my HR10-250.


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## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

harley3k said:


> I hear that from people on this board too, but I just switched to Fios like several of my friends in town that also used to have D*, and here are the facts about what I got from D* and what I now get with FIOS for _less money per month_.
> 
> *With D* all I ever got* from my Satellite feed was 2 HD Channels:
> HBO - HD
> ...


After reading this I just have one thing to say.







I cry knowing how much better FIOS is and knowing that my town will probably never have it.


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## pdawg17 (Mar 1, 2003)

kbohip said:


> After reading this I just have one thing to say.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Same here...I'm stuck in an AT&T zone...


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## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

super dave said:


> Re-Read any of the user agreements / contracts for DirecTV.
> The phone line requirement has been there since day one.


Right, but who cares? Directv doesn't charge me $5 a month for EVERY DVR I don't have plugged into a phone line, E* STILL does. Crap, it would cost me an extra $15 a month to have Dish instead of Directv because of Dish's stupid fees.

If Dish would dump all the sucker fees, add a second OTA tuner to the 622, and stop charging yet another $5 whenever I want to drop a premium channel with them, I might go back to them.


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## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

Bigdogsbigdogs said:


> Now that i have seen first hand, all that I can do is encourage everyone to not be opinionated or loyal. Doing so kept me from having my ideal system for a long time.


I agree. It's this way of thinking that got me stuck with Dish's craptacular 522 DVR instead of getting the far superior Directivo units a few years back. The 622 may be a nice box, but the fact that it only has 1 OTA tuner is a deal killer for me, that and of course the extra $20 a month in fees I'd be paying with E* that I don't pay with Directv.


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## Bigdogsbigdogs (Dec 18, 2006)

I'm curious, you say $20 in fees you would not be paying with D*. I have now, with E* the same thing I had with D* and I am saving money. Their base packaging is cheaper, HD service is cheaper, fee's are cheaper and premium packages are cheaper.

How awould E* be cheaper for you?

Thanks!


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

kbohip said:


> Right, but who cares? Directv doesn't charge me $5 a month for EVERY DVR I don't have plugged into a phone line, E* STILL does. Crap, it would cost me an extra $15 a month to have Dish instead of Directv because of Dish's stupid fees.
> 
> If Dish would dump all the sucker fees, add a second OTA tuner to the 622, and stop charging yet another $5 whenever I want to drop a premium channel with them, I might go back to them.


This point again. What I was trying to get across is even with the s**t fees Dish is cheaper, they put all of the charges out there, DTV charges a higher base price, so it is a wash. And the statement about having a phone line for DTV, I know we all have ways around it, no phone, nag screens and taking it to some one's home to activate it... But, in reality, if they wanted to bust balls, like they did in that particular OP's thread, they would not provide service, that is what is/was in the service agreement, no phone-no service. Where Dish, if they find out, would just charge extra and provide service. They both need to stop their ways, today's homes don't have landlines like they used to. And DTV started charging for dropping premiums when the system was being abused like a cheap pay per view.


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## ncjettaboy (Oct 24, 2005)

I switched to Dishnetwork for 5 months and am switching back to Directv. VOOM HD is good, but the Vip622 isn't all that it's cracked up to be. Their promotion to receive $20 per month has taken more than 4 months to get processed and won't be effective until after I cancel. Never purchase a Dish Network system from a retailer other than Dsih themselves. I'm subject to be charged from the retailer I purchased my system from.


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## slaponte (Apr 6, 2005)

I just installed D*. In comparison of configuration, Dish was more expensive (install and monthly), for very similar content. I ended up with $0 install (no DVR, yes HD), and low $69/mo for the first year with Starz and Cinemax, etc... I will figure the DVR solution on my own, but both of them wanted $199 for the HD/DVR anyway, so it was a wash.

As stated here, the initial days the HD channels are great, but after a while you want content, not just HD, so there are already a few I don't ever use.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

super dave said:


> I never had an issue, whether it was my DTiVo or our 622 and 625.


You haven't had them long enough TO have an issue, tough guy...   Wait a year, then let's see...



> I can't wait until you grow a pair keyboard tough guy. I read enough on this very board about every single problem that TiVo's cause. They are computers, they all have problems, me, ... So as usual, you brand problems as if everyone has them. Seems to me you are the one with issues, come on over and we can discuss them as adults, something you have yet to achieve there tough guy.
> 
> And get the facts straight, the 622 doesn't dump the HD tough guy, it rids itself of the Dish VOD. You are such a one trick pony. I will be out in Ohio early next year, close enough to drop in on you, tough guy?


La, la, la - la, la, la - I can't hear you...

Oooo, you're SO super - I'm running home to mama NOW.  

No, I'm doing one BETTER - [click on ignore]

Ah, silence IS golden.


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

You're too much the infant to really use ignore tough guy. Like the little dork you are, you attack and run away. Such a wuss. How many times have I stated that for our needs the pricing can't be beat, you don't read it, you attack and then claim for your needs the pricing can't be beat with what you have. You are such a princess, one way. Anywhere near Ohio tough guy? I'll gladly make a special trip. You want to jump up my as* every time I respond with how my experience has been and tell me I am a liar, I'll gladly show you how much I lie tough guy. Internet cowboy.


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## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

super dave said:


> This point again. What I was trying to get across is even with the s**t fees Dish is cheaper, they put all of the charges out there, DTV charges a higher base price, so it is a wash. And the statement about having a phone line for DTV, I know we all have ways around it, no phone, nag screens and taking it to some one's home to activate it... But, in reality, if they wanted to bust balls, like they did in that particular OP's thread, they would not provide service, that is what is/was in the service agreement, no phone-no service. Where Dish, if they find out, would just charge extra and provide service. They both need to stop their ways, today's homes don't have landlines like they used to. And DTV started charging for dropping premiums when the system was being abused like a cheap pay per view.


Heh? Unless I'm figuring something wrong, to get what I've got now with Directv, a similar package with Dish would run me around $10 a month more than Directv. I have the total choice plus with Directv that runs me $49.99 a month plus $10 a month for my 2 Tivo's. This already includes the mirroring fee and the charge for both Tivo's. The $5.99 a month DVR fee covers every Tivo in the house.

Dish's package is cheaper at first at $39.99 a month, but then the fees really add up:

HD-DVR: $5 a month
SD-DVR: $5 a month
mirror fee for second dvr: $5 a month
no phone line plugged into both units: $10 a month

Oh yea, and I'd also have to pay another $5.99 a month to get local channels so I could have the guide data on the VIP-622 too right?

As long as I've figured this up right, I'd be paying about $10 a month more for Dish than what I pay with Directv. This is one of the big reasons why I like Directv so much better than Dish anyway. It was almost impossible to figure out what the bill would be with Dish because of all of the almost hidden fees.

Super Dave, I'm not trying to be a dick. I couldn't care less what tv content provider I go with. If Dish is the one for you and the best deal for what YOU need, that's great. Who knows, a year or two from now I could be with Dish and you could be with Directv. Nothing is certain when it comes to these sat. companies.

I'm just saying that for me Dish would cost more for the setup I have. I know because unfortunately I overpaid Dish for many years before coming to Directv. The thing is though you have the HD package from Dish and I don't have the (lol, so called) HD package from Directv. It makes it almost impossible to compare this way.

Heck, if VIOS was an option for me I'd gladly tell Directv, Dish, and the cable company to take a flying leap. Now if you'll all excuse me, I need to go find Harley's house so I can REALLY start watching some tv!


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## CJLinst (Mar 13, 2005)

I'm not ready to jump just yet, but this bad guide data/Season Pass FUBAR on my HR10-250 has me seriously looking at doing so for the first time in two years.

Why is it so damn difficult to get D* to fix this stuff or at least admit there's a problem and they're working on it? Total Bravo Sierra.

And watching the nice, letterboxed, would-be HD content on FoodTV is really starting to bug the crap out of me.

And my wife saying, "HEY, why didn't it record THAT!?!" is even worse.

The only thing keeping me from jumping is knowing that salvation does not lie with Charlie and E*, either.

I'm a rural customer, so cable and fios are not an option. Get your stuff together [DE]*!


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