# TiVo, MOCA, and Comcast XB3 Modem



## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

I just picked up my new Comcast XB3 modem on Friday and set it up, really nice to have 180 MBpS download speeds and it has MOCA built in as an option. So I turned on the MOCA option in the modem and pulled the ethernet cable out of the Roamio I have in the living room. Once I setup the MOCA on the Roamio and rebooted it, all seems to work (I have an internet connection and was able to connect to Netflix and Amazon Video). But I've noticed that sometimes when I browse a show on the Roamio, it loses internet connectivity briefly and then it returns. And when I tried a video on Amazon, same thing, it lost connection a few times and paused. Any ideas where to start troubleshooting this, not sure how many users here have an XB3, if that's relevant.


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## Sixmm (Oct 2, 2015)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> I just picked up my new Comcast XB3 modem on Friday and set it up, really nice to have 180 MBpS download speeds and it has MOCA built in as an option. So I turned on the MOCA option in the modem and pulled the ethernet cable out of the Roamio I have in the living room. Once I setup the MOCA on the Roamio and rebooted it, all seems to work (I have an internet connection and was able to connect to Netflix and Amazon Video). But I've noticed that sometimes when I browse a show on the Roamio, it loses internet connectivity briefly and then it returns. And when I tried a video on Amazon, same thing, it lost connection a few times and paused. Any ideas where to start troubleshooting this, not sure how many users here have an XB3, if that's relevant.


I was told by comcast that they have turned off the Moca because it is glitchy. I went ahead and got a moca bridge for the gateway.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

Sixmm said:


> I was told by comcast that they have turned off the Moca because it is glitchy. I went ahead and got a moca bridge for the gateway.


Hmm that's odd, as I was on the phone with their tech last week and he didn't mention it.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> I just picked up my new Comcast XB3 modem on Friday and set it up, really nice to have 180 MBpS download speeds and it has MOCA built in as an option. So I turned on the MOCA option in the modem and pulled the ethernet cable out of the Roamio I have in the living room. Once I setup the MOCA on the Roamio and rebooted it, all seems to work (I have an internet connection and was able to connect to Netflix and Amazon Video). But I've noticed that sometimes when I browse a show on the Roamio, it loses internet connectivity briefly and then it returns. And when I tried a video on Amazon, same thing, it lost connection a few times and paused. Any ideas where to start troubleshooting this, not sure how many users here have an XB3, if that's relevant.


Hi,
I would do all of the normal MoCA troubleshooting, put 75Ohm F-type terminators on all open wall plates, any unused ports on splitters, check that your cabling is in good condition, all RG-6, and make sure that there is a POE/ Whole Home DVR filter either on your tap or on the input to the first splitter to enter your home. If none of this works consider replacing your main splitter with a MoCA rated one, possibly others if still no success.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

Thanks for the advice. I live in a condo where the splitters are up in the ceiling so no luck there. All of my coax outlets are plugged into something, either a modem or a TiVo device.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Thanks for the advice. I live in a condo where the splitters are up in the ceiling so no luck there. All of my coax outlets are plugged into something, either a modem or a TiVo device.


Hi,
Have you ever noticed strange computers/ devices showing up on your home network? If no, there may already be a MoCA filter at the tap which is important for security and there is probably nothing more you can do. If you occasionally or continually see some unknown device(s) on your network, you most assuredly do not have a MoCA filter installed. If so, call Comcast and request that they install one ASAP because your network is open to anyone closeby with a MoCA adapter. Also, if you install a MoCA filter, you will give a boost or strengthen to MoCA signal.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> ... So I turned on the MOCA option in the modem and pulled the ethernet cable out of the Roamio I have in the living room. ...


So was your Roamio (Plus?) previously creating your MoCA network? And you weren't experiencing any of these issues?


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

fcfc2 said:


> Hi,
> Have you ever noticed strange computers/ devices showing up on your home network? If no, there may already be a MoCA filter at the tap which is important for security and there is probably nothing more you can do. If you occasionally or continually see some unknown device(s) on your network, you most assuredly do not have a MoCA filter installed. If so, call Comcast and request that they install one ASAP because your network is open to anyone closeby with a MoCA adapter. Also, if you install a MoCA filter, you will give a boost or strengthen to MoCA signal.


No, I can browse all of the devices connected on my MoCA network via the XB3 interface and all are devices are mine, nothing that appears to be unknown.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> So was your Roamio (Plus?) previously creating your MoCA network? And you weren't experiencing any of these issues?


Yes, previously on my Roamio Plus I had it create the MoCA network but it was connected to the internet via the ethernet port with a Netgear WNCE2001 wireless card. Its a nice card as it "tricks" devices into thinking its connected via ethernet even though its wifi. But its a bit dated and its speed is not the best so when I got the new modem with MoCA built in, I thought it a good idea to turn it on and then let my Roamio connect to the internet via MoCA for a faster internet connection. In addition, this would allow me to connect my Xbox One to the TiVo so that would be hard cabled as well.

I just disconnected the ethernet cable from the back of the TiVo and re-ran setup for the MoCA. I connected to Amazon to start a video to see how long it would run before it gave me a lost connection message (previously it would only connect for a few minutes and then time out) and it never happened, played through for 15 minutes before I stopped it.

Do you think there could be a problem in plugging the Xbox One into the TiVo that causes MoCA issues?


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

I've confirmed that by plugging the ethernet cable from the Xbox One back into the TiVo, it causes the internet connection to drop. I did also note that when I go into the network settings, it now reads connected via Ethernet and MoCA. Should this be correct even if the ethernet connection is being used as a hub?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> I've confirmed that by plugging the ethernet cable from the Xbox One back into the TiVo, it causes the internet connection to drop. I did also note that when I go into the network settings, it now reads connected via Ethernet and MoCA. Should this be correct even if the ethernet connection is being used as a hub?


I don't know what it should say on the network status screen, but I *do* believe you should be configuring it only with the *"Connect using MoCA"* option -- and *NOT* the *"Use this DVR to create a MoCA network"* option. (Using the second option would tell the DVR to act as a MoCA controller, and the Xfinity XB3 router is already handling that responsibility.)

edit: If the only thing you did on the Plus was unplug the Ethernet cable, and didn't also go into the Plus' network settings to change it from "create MoCA" to "connect using MoCA" ... that is very likely the issue -- especially given the symptoms pop-up when connecting the Xbox One. (Without the Xbox One connected, the Plus probably disables its MoCA controller, since it doesn't see a live Ethernet connection to which it could bridge traffic.)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> I just disconnected the ethernet cable from the back of the TiVo and re-ran setup for the MoCA.


I'm reading this as you having possibly reset the Plus' network config using the "Connect using MoCA" option.

Regardless, I'd also recommend putting the Plus into Standby, pulling its power, waiting a few minutes, and then powering it back on. I'm pretty sure I've read of instances where network configuration changes haven't necessarily been applied without a reboot of the Roamio.

edit: p.s. If you can temporarily string a long Ethernet cable to your router, you might try connecting the Roamio directly to your router via Ethernet, and reset its networking to Ethernet only. Once that's working and verified, shift back to coax only and see if you get different results with the "Connect using MoCA" option -- without and with the Xbox One hanging off the Plus' Ethernet port.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> I don't know what it should say on the network status screen, but I *do* believe you should be configuring it only with the *"Connect using MoCA"* option -- and *NOT* the *"Use this DVR to create a MoCA network"* option. (Using the second option would tell the DVR to act as a MoCA controller, and the Xfinity XB3 router is already handling that responsibility.)
> 
> edit: If the only thing you did on the Plus was unplug the Ethernet cable, and didn't also go into the Plus' network settings to change it from "create MoCA" to "connect using MoCA" ... that is very likely the issue -- especially given the symptoms pop-up when connecting the Xbox One. (Without the Xbox One connected, the Plus probably disables its MoCA controller, since it doesn't see a live Ethernet connection to which it could bridge traffic.)


I can confirm that I set up the network settings to connecet using MoCA and not create a MoCA network. It seems if you plug anything into the ethernet port in the TiVo, it automatically changes your network settings to MoCA + Ethernet, even if the device connected to the ethernet port is being used to piggyback off the TiVo's internet and not being used for an internet connection.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> I'm reading this as you having possibly reset the Plus' network config using the "Connect using MoCA" option.
> 
> Regardless, I'd also recommend putting the Plus into Standby, pulling its power, waiting a few minutes, and then powering it back on. I'm pretty sure I've read of instances where network configuration changes haven't necessarily been applied without a reboot of the Roamio.
> 
> edit: p.s. If you can temporarily string a long Ethernet cable to your router, you might try connecting the Roamio directly to your router via Ethernet, and reset its networking to Ethernet only. Once that's working and verified, shift back to coax only and see if you get different results with the "Connect using MoCA" option -- without and with the Xbox One hanging off the Plus' Ethernet port.


I tried the scenarios you suggested above, and everything works OK when I do this. The only thing that seems to make the MoCA internet connection break sometimes is connecting the Xbox One to the TiVo ethernet port. So after some testing, if I connect the Xbox One via my wifi, I still get 60+ MBpS download speeds which is more than enough for some gaming. Tethering it to the TiVo was giving me 90+ MBpS but that additional speed is not worth it for my Amazon to crap out q2min. Thanks for all your help and I guess I'll keep an eye out to see if anyone else posts an issue around using the TiVo as an internet hub.


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> I tried the scenarios you suggested above, and everything works OK when I do this. The only thing that seems to make the MoCA internet connection break sometimes is connecting the Xbox One to the TiVo ethernet port. So after some testing, if I connect the Xbox One via my wifi, I still get 60+ MBpS download speeds which is more than enough for some gaming. Tethering it to the TiVo was giving me 90+ MBpS but that additional speed is not worth it for my Amazon to crap out q2min. Thanks for all your help and I guess I'll keep an eye out to see if anyone else posts an issue around using the TiVo as an internet hub.


I can't imagine even thinking it would be a "reliable" hub and for only a single device? Why wouldn't you just do a MoCA to E-net at that location and then do E-net to both devices and likely have a couple more ports available on the hub/adapter. I've been using a Comcast Gateway and MoCA to my TiVo for many months now. Another TiVo is still on E-net at the other end of the house and I've absolutely no issues. I don't believe the "daisy chain" idea is a solution of any sort.

I actually have a switch in the network also and the E-net connected TiVo is from the switch and NOT using a port off of the Gateway.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

WVZR1 said:


> I can't imagine even thinking it would be a "reliable" hub and for only a single device? Why wouldn't you just do a MoCA to E-net at that location and then do E-net to both devices and likely have a couple more ports available on the hub/adapter. I've been using a Comcast Gateway and MoCA to my TiVo for many months now. Another TiVo is still on E-net at the other end of the house and I've absolutely no issues. I don't believe the "daisy chain" idea is a solution of any sort.
> 
> I actually have a switch in the network also and the E-net connected TiVo is from the switch and NOT using a port off of the Gateway.


From the thread below, see the "power tip" at the bottom of the first post, other users have done this before though I am not sure if its been done directly to an Xbox One. I don't have a ethernet hub lying around and really only care about the internet speed on the TiVo and Xbox, my Samsung TV and Bluray player can continue to connect to the internet when needed via wifi. But it looks like I should probably get one if I want to connect the Xbox to the MoCA, thanks for your advice.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=501722&highlight=moca+power+user


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

This brief thread highlights the hinkyness of TiVo network settings, sometimes requiring reboots (or three) for changes to take effect.

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=533532


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> From the thread below, see the "power tip" at the bottom of the first post, other users have done this before though I am not sure if its been done directly to an Xbox One. I don't have a ethernet hub lying around and really only care about the internet speed on the TiVo and Xbox, my Samsung TV and Bluray player can continue to connect to the internet when needed via wifi. But it looks like I should probably get one if I want to connect the Xbox to the MoCA, thanks for your advice.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=501722&highlight=moca+power+user


Ok, it looks like you're already contemplating what I was going to suggest, as a test: *hang an Ethernet switch* off the Ethernet port of your TiVo*, and see if that causes the intermittent network glitches you were seeing with the Xbox One directly connected.

If the network switch alone doesn't create similar issues, then connect the Xbox One to an open port on the TiVo-connected switch and monitor for a return of symptoms.

If the switch workaround eliminates the issues, connect additional devices as desired.

*** p.s. Now whether you go with a Fast Ethernet (100Mbps) or Gigabit (1000Mbps) switch is up to you, noting that a Gigabit switch should theoretically net you a small speed improvement, eliminating the typical Fast Ethernet throttling of MoCA 1.1 traffic. (i.e. A Gigabit switch would match the Gigabit ports on the Roamio Plus and Xbox One, and you're fortunate enough to have your MoCA bridge embedded in your gateway, rather than the typical MoCA 1.1 adapter with a Fast Ethernet port acting as your MoCA bridge.)


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

Hi Krkaufman, thanks for all of your help. I haven't yet done the ethernet hub check yet, trying to solve another MoCA mystery first--intermittent switching off of the MoCA setting in the XB3 modem. Everything works fine for a few days or so, then the TiVo loses internet connectivity. I log into the XB3 and see the MoCA has been switched off. Not sure what is causing it and a call to Comcast entry level support left me on the phone for 45 minutes this week with a bunch of "can you repeat the issue again?". Ugh...


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Urgh. Yeah, sounds like the Xbox One issue is the least of your concerns.

Good luck..!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Hi Krkaufman, thanks for all of your help. I haven't yet done the ethernet hub check yet, trying to solve another MoCA mystery first--intermittent switching off of the MoCA setting in the XB3 modem. Everything works fine for a few days or so, then the TiVo loses internet connectivity. I log into the XB3 and see the MoCA has been switched off. Not sure what is causing it and a call to Comcast entry level support left me on the phone for 45 minutes this week with a bunch of "can you repeat the issue again?". Ugh...


FYI... You're not alone in having issues, currently, with Comcast's "MoCA" gateways. See this thread.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

This guy's problem description is identical to your latest...


> http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Home-Networking-Router-WiFi/XB3-MoCA-Keeps-Turning-Off/td-p/2642650
> 
> *XB3 MoCA Keeps Turning Off*
> 
> I recently received the XB3 modem and have enabled MoCA so I can use my coax outlets to receive the internet. Every couple of days the MoCA setting in in the modem is reset back to disabled. I have seen other users complain about this and several calls to Comcast have not fixed it. Anyone else with this problem?


Sadly, nobody's replied to him.

(Just came across this post while trying to hunt down information on the XB3 MoCA specs.)


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> This guy's problem description is identical to your latest...
> 
> Sadly, nobody's replied to him.
> 
> (Just came across this post while trying to hunt down information on the XB3 MoCA specs.)


It's similar because he's me!  Posted it this week as the problem keeps happening. Comcast had me do a factory reset thinking that would resolve it but no joy. Internet searches seem to show that Comcast had been disabling the feature with software flashes a year ago as the MOCA in the XB3 was interfering with the MOCA in their X1 DVRs and customers were calling with DVR sharing not working etc. What is unclear is that Comcast is not confirming they still do that but it seems to be the case. Their help desk stinks and last night I was cut off after an hour and didn't have the patience to call back again.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

Comcast has confirmed that they flash the XB3 modem every few days to disable the MoCA if you have it turned on as it interferes with the MoCA setup in their X1 DVR. And lots of people complain and don't know how to turn it off. So it looks like I'll be buying a MoCA adapter.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Comcast has confirmed that they flash the XB3 modem every few days to disable the MoCA if you have it turned on as it interferes with the MoCA setup in their X1 DVR. And lots of people complain and don't know how to turn it off. So it looks like I'll be buying a MoCA adapter.


HAHAHAHA. Epic Comcast fail. That's pretty pathetic. I had a TiVo interfere with X1, but that's understandable, as Comcast didn't rent the TiVo to me.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

I wish I could laugh but as a Comcast customer it's not funny but annoying. Love my +150 MBPS speed with the XB3 but wish this feature could be used.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> I wish I could laugh but as a Comcast customer it's not funny but annoying. Love my +150 MBPS speed with the XB3 but wish this feature could be used.


Well, you should be laughing at yourself for overpaying for their ****y router/modem instead of owning your own. You're way better off in the long run owning.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Bigg said:


> Well, you should be laughing at yourself for overpaying for their ****y router/modem instead of owning your own. You're way better off in the long run owning.


I've been hedging on the "roll your own" recommendations for those not requiring much wireless bandwidth, given you're getting a modem, router, wireless access point and MoCA bridge all-in-one. It could easily take over 2 years to reach a break-even point to match that functionality -- and the customer would have to worry about hardware failures.

That they don't let you leverage the MoCA has me shifting back in your direction for most cases.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

Bigg said:


> Well, you should be laughing at yourself for overpaying for their ****y router/modem instead of owning your own. You're way better off in the long run owning.


It's all part of my triple play package, so cost is somewhat moot (would cost more to split my package up into parts).


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> It's all part of my triple play package, so cost is somewhat moot (would cost more to split my package up into parts).


I don't believe you have to stick with Comcast equipment just because you have one of their bundles. I have a double play package and own my own equipment. Based on comparing Comcasts pricing for double play vs. triple play, I figure I'm saving $20-$30 per month by using Ooma for phone service.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> I've been hedging on the "roll your own" recommendations for those not requiring much wireless bandwidth, given you're getting a modem, router, wireless access point and MoCA bridge all-in-one. It could easily take over 2 years to reach a break-even point to match that functionality -- and the customer would have to worry about hardware failures.
> 
> That they don't let you leverage the MoCA has me shifting back in your direction for most cases.


And their stuff would still suck compared to what you can buy on you own. The only way it makes sense is if you're renting and you think you'll move somewhere where someone already has their own modem or has FIOS/U-Verse or something in the future.



PSU_Sudzi said:


> It's all part of my triple play package, so cost is somewhat moot (would cost more to split my package up into parts).


Are you sure? It can vary market to market, so it's not impossible that they've dreamed up something crazy like that that I've never heard of, but in general, they only give out the DVR, not the crappy modem/router contraption with X1 Triple Play. They typically charge $8/mo for a modem, and $10/mo for the router/modem/eMTA combo, which also makes no sense, but hey, it's Comcastic! 

Triple Play is often cheaper even than just internet/TV alone, but it usually doesn't include the internet/phone equipment. That's one of the way that they make money, as there is that hidden $10/mo, and most people don't bother buying their own eMTA. My parents own their TM822G Arris eMTA.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

Bigg said:


> And their stuff would still suck compared to what you can buy on you own. The only way it makes sense is if you're renting and you think you'll move somewhere where someone already has their own modem or has FIOS/U-Verse or something in the future.
> 
> Are you sure? It can vary market to market, so it's not impossible that they've dreamed up something crazy like that that I've never heard of, but in general, they only give out the DVR, not the crappy modem/router contraption with X1 Triple Play. They typically charge $8/mo for a modem, and $10/mo for the router/modem/eMTA combo, which also makes no sense, but hey, it's Comcastic!
> 
> Triple Play is often cheaper even than just internet/TV alone, but it usually doesn't include the internet/phone equipment. That's one of the way that they make money, as there is that hidden $10/mo, and most people don't bother buying their own eMTA. My parents own their TM822G Arris eMTA.


I can confirm the X1 triple play I have does not have line item charges for equipment rentals, DVR or modem. It's all baked into the package. I realize that I am still paying the cost of it, just not itemized.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> I can confirm the X1 triple play I have does not have line item charges for equipment rentals, DVR or modem. It's all baked into the package. I realize that I am still paying the cost of it, just not itemized.


Wow. That's an interesting find. I wonder how many markets are doing that? Or maybe it is just part of the teaser rate, and they will get you after a year?


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

Bigg said:


> Wow. That's an interesting find. I wonder how many markets are doing that? Or maybe it is just part of the teaser rate, and they will get you after a year?


I am in the Philly suburbs and have had that package for a couple of years now. Whenever the intro rate goes up, I call them and threaten to cancel and they knock 40 bucks off per month (249 to 209). 150 MBPS download speed and all premium movie and sports channels. I think it's their highest package. I could have 1 X1 DVR and 2 outlet boxes included as well.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> I am in the Philly suburbs and have had that package for a couple of years now. Whenever the intro rate goes up, I call them and threaten to cancel and they knock 40 bucks off per month (249 to 209). 150 MBPS download speed and all premium movie and sports channels. I think it's their highest package. I could have 1 X1 DVR and 2 outlet boxes included as well.


Oooh, you must have the super-duper insane package to get that. That makes a little bit more sense. They're throwing you a bone for shoveling money at them to have 400 channels.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

Bigg said:


> Oooh, you must have the super-duper insane package to get that. That makes a little bit more sense. They're throwing you a bone for shoveling money at them to have 400 channels.


Yes I think it's the premium HD, all movie and sports channels.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

See image below.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> See image below.


Nice. That's spendy, but a good deal if you want most of what's in there.


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## cellguy (Sep 30, 2004)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Comcast has confirmed that they flash the XB3 modem every few days to disable the MoCA if you have it turned on as it interferes with the MoCA setup in their X1 DVR. And lots of people complain and don't know how to turn it off. So it looks like I'll be buying a MoCA adapter.


I have been on with Comcast at least once a week telling them that my MoCA network on my XB3 keeps turning itself off every 72 hours. They think I'm crazy. At least I have an answer. Sucks though as I have a Mini and need the MoCA. Guess I just need to keep turning it back on..every...3 ... days..ugh


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

cellguy said:


> I have been on with Comcast at least once a week telling them that my MoCA network on my XB3 keeps turning itself off every 72 hours. They think I'm crazy. At least I have an answer. Sucks though as I have a Mini and need the MoCA. Guess I just need to keep turning it back on..every...3 ... days..ugh


Get a MoCA adapter and be done with it.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

cellguy said:


> I have been on with Comcast at least once a week telling them that my MoCA network on my XB3 keeps turning itself off every 72 hours. They think I'm crazy. At least I have an answer. Sucks though as I have a Mini and need the MoCA. Guess I just need to keep turning it back on..every...3 ... days..ugh


Call their support and have them add your modem to a white list they don't flash it any more, I did with mine last week.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Call their support and have them add your modem to a white list they don't flash it any more, I did with mine last week.


Thanks for this info.

Has the "whitelisting" of your XB3 proved effective in keeping MoCA consistently available to your TiVo devices?

Is there some alternate manual process you can now follow to ensure that your XB3 is periodically updated?


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Thanks for this info.
> 
> Has the "whitelisting" of your XB3 proved effective in keeping MoCA consistently available to your TiVo devices?
> 
> Is there some alternate manual process you can now follow to ensure that your XB3 is periodically updated?


Well, now that you ask....started having internet connection issues and went through a couple of XB3 modems. Couldn't figure out the problem. Comcast sent a tech out and they put an POE filter on my input (I don't have access to the box myself in a condo) and no more internet problems. I have not called them back yet to whitelist my new modem so the MoCA goes off every couple of days and it's on my to do list to calmly hem back again this week.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Well, now that you ask....started having internet connection issues and went through a couple of XB3 modems. Couldn't figure out the problem. Comcast sent a tech out and they put an POE filter on my input (I don't have access to the box myself in a condo) and no more internet problems. I have not called them back yet to whitelist my new modem so the MoCA goes off every couple of days and it's on my to do list to calmly hem back again this week.


Sorry, a bit confused about the filter placement, they put a MoCA filter what "input", the line coming into your home or what?
Edit: Also how did you ever discover this "white listing" terminology?


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

fcfc2 said:


> Sorry, a bit confused about the filter placement, they put a MoCA filter what "input", the line coming into your home or what?
> Edit: Also how did you ever discover this "white listing" terminology?


i am not a tech expert, but I am guessing he put the filter somewhere in the main box in my building and explained to me this would keep the MoCA signal only on the cable running to my unit. As for the whitelist, I did a lot of searching Comcast forums about this issue and found a post with a name and number of a tech at Comcast that did this for someone else and "whitelist" was the word they used.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> i am not a tech expert, but I am guessing he put the filter somewhere in the main box in my building and explained to me this would keep the MoCA signal only on the cable running to my unit. As for the whitelist, I did a lot of searching Comcast forums about this issue and found a post with a name and number of a tech at Comcast that did this for someone else and "whitelist" was the word they used.


Thank you. I don't consider myself a tech expert either but I am pretty certain he put it on the input of the first splitter to enter your home. What puzzles me though is how would a MoCA cable modem be sensitive to MoCA interference, never mind, it just came to me it was the cable companies incoming internet signal that was being interfered with...it wasn't happening within your gateway.


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## jgorran (Nov 4, 2013)

I think I've gotten a handle on the Xfinity X1 DVR System with XB3 Modem/Gateway Moca 2.0 issues with my Roamio Plus and Mini using an Actiontec ECB2500C Moca adapter.

Why would I have both a Tivo (for 14 years by the way) and have the Xfinity X1 DVR system is that I live in a gated 55 plus community that just arranged a bulk contract agreement for our 1043 homes for the Triple Play using the X 1 System. I could opt out, but I'd still have to pay for it anyway through our community's monthly increased fee. So I have it. In addition to the X1 box itself, they give us one X1 companion box which is just like the Tivo mini, but for the X1. Apparently it communicates with the X1 box via Moca, which is built into the X1 DVR just like in the Tivo Roamio Plus. But this is Moca 2.0 for X1
and the Tivo Roamio plus and Actiontec adapter is at Moca 1.0 or some designation like that...so there seems to be a compatibility/interference issue which I have experienced. They don't work well together when you try to use the Xfinity companion box (like the Tivo Mini) on the same coax network with a Tivo Roamio and a Tivo mini.

THAT is why Comcast sends a signal every few days to the XB3 Modem (Mine is an Arris) to turn off the Moca. They don't play well together.

I too got the name of the Comcast tech who put me on the whitelist so that my Moca would no longer be automatically turned off every three days. Until then, I had the same problem that you all were having in terms of having to reset the modem every couple of days.

This allowed the Actiontec/Tivo Moca 1.0 to function well. However, at least in my case, when I tried to use the Xfinity companion box, I still had interference which would cause Freezeups on the X1 companion box along with a several second dropping of Moca on my Tivo Roamio Plus and then it would come back on. Unfortunately, this happened as long as the X1 companion box was attached to cable anywhere in my house. When Moca signal was dropped , my Tivo mini would
also stop functioning in the middle of whatever it was doing (including watching live TV) and have to be reset. What a waste of time.

So I have now disconnected the X1 companion box and my Tivo mini is working fine along with my Tivo Roamio Plus. While I'm stuck with this X1 companion box that is not being used, it really does not matter because it is just my wife and I and between our Tivo Roamio and a mini, plus an X1 System on a third TV, we certainly are covered.

So to get your Roamio and minis to work if you have an X1 and an XB3 modem.gateway, you must get Comcast to whitelist your modem so that they do not keep turning off Moca. And of course, forget about the X1 companion box. Obviously these too different Moca standards do not play well together.


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## jgorran (Nov 4, 2013)

I think I've gotten a handle on the Xfinity X1 DVR System with XB3 Modem/Gateway Moca 2.0 issues with my Roamio Plus and Mini using an Actiontec ECB2500C Moca adapter.

Why would I have both a Tivo (for 14 years by the way) and have the Xfinity X1 DVR system is that I live in a gated 55 plus community that just arranged a bulk contract agreement for our 1043 homes for the Triple Play using the X 1 System. I could opt out, but I'd still have to pay for it anyway through our community's monthly increased fee. So I have it. In addition to the X1 box itself, they give us one X1 companion box which is just like the Tivo mini, but for the X1. Apparently it communicates with the X1 box via Moca, which is built into the X1 DVR just like in the Tivo Roamio Plus. But this is Moca 2.0 for X1
and the Tivo Roamio plus and Actiontec adapter is at Moca 1.0 or some designation like that...so there seems to be a compatibility/interference issue which I have experienced. They don't work well together when you try to use the Xfinity companion box (like the Tivo Mini) on the same coax network with a Tivo Roamio and a Tivo mini.

THAT is why Comcast sends a signal every few days to the XB3 Modem (Mine is an Arris) to turn off the Moca. They don't play well together.

I too got the name of the Comcast tech who put me on the whitelist so that my Moca would no longer be automatically turned off every three days. Until then, I had the same problem that you all were having in terms of having to reset the modem every couple of days.

This allowed the Actiontec/Tivo Moca 1.0 to function well. However, at least in my case, when I tried to use the Xfinity companion box, I still had interference which would cause Freezeups on the X1 companion box along with a several second dropping of Moca on my Tivo Roamio Plus and then it would come back on. Unfortunately, this happened as long as the X1 companion box was attached to cable anywhere in my house. When Moca signal was dropped , my Tivo mini would
also stop functioning in the middle of whatever it was doing (including watching live TV) and have to be reset. What a waste of time.

So I have now disconnected the X1 companion box and my Tivo mini is working fine along with my Tivo Roamio Plus. While I'm stuck with this X1 companion box that is not being used, it really does not matter because it is just my wife and I and between our Tivo Roamio and a mini, plus an X1 System on a third TV, we certainly are covered.

So to get your Roamio and minis to work if you have an X1 and an XB3 modem.gateway, you must get Comcast to whitelist your modem so that they do not keep turning off Moca. And of course, forget about the X1 companion box. Obviously these too different Moca standards do not play well together.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

jgorran,
When you were trying to get your Tivos and the xfinity equipment working using MoCA, how did you enable the MoCA on the Roamio, "create a MoCA network" or "connect to a MoCA network"?


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## jgorran (Nov 4, 2013)

Since I already had the Moca network established by using the Actiontec adapter, I can only assume that it was "connect to a Moca network". I do not think there was a choice given between create or connect because I already had established said Moca network. I set up the mini at the same time as the Roamio Plus so I knew that I needed to have a Moca network in place using the Adaptec for the two boxes to talk to each other. I suspect from your question that if I had not already establshed a Moca with the Actiontec adapter and just had the Roamio Plus (which can do a Moca itself in some fashion) it might have asked the question "Do you want the Roamio to establish a Moca".

The point is that I don't think I ever was given that choice as I set up the Moca FIRST with the Actiontec adapter. That is just how I think I remember things.

Good luck.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

jgorran said:


> Since I already had the Moca network established by using the Actiontec adapter, I can only assume that it was "connect to a Moca network". I do not think there was a choice given between create or connect because I already had established said Moca network. I set up the mini at the same time as the Roamio Plus so I knew that I needed to have a Moca network in place using the Adaptec for the two boxes to talk to each other. I suspect from your question that if I had not already establshed a Moca with the Actiontec adapter and just had the Roamio Plus (which can do a Moca itself in some fashion) it might have asked the question "Do you want the Roamio to establish a Moca".
> 
> The point is that I don't think I ever was given that choice as I set up the Moca FIRST with the Actiontec adapter. That is just how I think I remember things.
> 
> Good luck.


Thanks for responding. If you already have the Comcast boxes establishing a MoCA network, what were you using the Actiontec MoCA adapter for? You should have been able to use the "connect to MoCA network" on the Plus and the mini, no other adapter should be needed.
There is no incompatibility between MoCA 2.0 and the Tivo's MoCA 1.1 standards, so that is the reason for the question as to how you connected to the MoCA network. 2 MoCA devices both set to be the "network controller" will fight each other. I don't know if that is what you were observing as "interference" or not. I am not familiar with the Comcast xfininity system to know for certain but I would not be surprised if the router/gateway or their DVR would act as one. I am trying to under stand this as I have a nephew who is in a similar situation, who I would describe as a "technot, 3rd class" and is kind of useless to get information from. The option to force a MoCA device to become the "network controller" is absent on most MoCA devices, they will simply join each other and one or the other will "act as the network controller", kind of like the way a windows network will reselect a "Master Browser" for keeping track of all the devices on the network, if the machine acting as a "Master Browser" goes off line, one of the other machines will get "elected".


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## jgorran (Nov 4, 2013)

I do not have any "advanced knowledge" regarding Moca. I only know what "I think I know" based upon results I see and information I pickup on forums like this one and the Comcast one. I had read that Comcast designed their system using Moca 2.0 specifically because there were no Moca 2.0 adapters being made for the general public..only for providers like Comcast. According to this theory, Comcast wanted to keep any non-Comcast equipment from functioning or attaching to their Moca 2.0. They considered it proprietary. So under this theory, Moca 2.0 and Moca 1.1 are NOT compatible and that without my Actiontec adapter, I would not have been able to connect to the Xfinity X1 DVR created Moca 2.0 anyway. If you say they are both compatible and that I did not need the Actiontec as I could have simply connected to the Moca 2.0 and both the Roamio and Mini would have functioned properly, that does not agree with what I have seen. If everything is compatible, do you believe the addition of the Actiontec adapter "caused" the problem?

I really think that my specific situation is really unusual. I mean who would choose to have a six tuner Roamio Plus and mini in addition to having an Xfinity X1 DVR with 5 tuner capability. I like the Roamio Plus much better as a DVR for a host of reasons but I am forced to also have an X1 DVR so I had to make as much of the two systems work together as possible and I think I accomplished that.

It would just seem that the Actiontec might have been unnecessary under your scenario, but not damaging to the integrity of the Moca. I can assure you that attaching the Xfinity companion box created a "conversation" between it and the X1 DVR that screwed up my Tivo Moca.

For me, my system is working just fine after almost two months of trying to get it to do so. You may be correct about the two Moca standards being compatible and if THAT is so, then maybe Comcast/Xfinity does "something else" to prevent third parties from using their Moca 2.0.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

jgorran said:


> I do not have any "advanced knowledge" regarding Moca.
> 
> I really think that my specific situation is really unusual.
> 
> maybe Comcast/Xfinity does "something else" to prevent third parties from using their Moca 2.0.


Again, thank you for your efforts, your situation is "unusual" and that is why I was trying to glean some additional information/details from you to better understand how Comcast uses MoCA on their equipment. Unfortunately, I think I inadvertently may have poorly explained the reason for my inquiries and cast some unfortunate aspersions on your understanding. If so, I apologize, please have a great day and enjoy your Tivo's.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

jgorran said:


> I think I've gotten a handle on the Xfinity X1 DVR System with XB3 Modem/Gateway Moca 2.0 issues with my Roamio Plus and Mini using an Actiontec ECB2500C Moca adapter.
> 
> Why would I have both a Tivo (for 14 years by the way) and have the Xfinity X1 DVR system is that I live in a gated 55 plus community that just arranged a bulk contract agreement for our 1043 homes for the Triple Play using the X 1 System. I could opt out, but I'd still have to pay for it anyway through our community's monthly increased fee. So I have it. In addition to the X1 box itself, they give us one X1 companion box which is just like the Tivo mini, but for the X1. Apparently it communicates with the X1 box via Moca, which is built into the X1 DVR just like in the Tivo Roamio Plus. But this is Moca 2.0 for X1
> and the Tivo Roamio plus and Actiontec adapter is at Moca 1.0 or some designation like that...so there seems to be a compatibility/interference issue which I have experienced. They don't work well together when you try to use the Xfinity companion box (like the Tivo Mini) on the same coax network with a Tivo Roamio and a Tivo mini.
> ...


Yes, you would have problems like yours with the X1 and MoCA turned on in the XB3.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

fcfc2 said:


> jgorran,
> When you were trying to get your Tivos and the xfinity equipment working using MoCA, how did you enable the MoCA on the Roamio, "create a MoCA network" or "connect to a MoCA network"?


I used "connect to MOCA network" to connect my Roamio to the MOCA from my XB3. Also got my XB3 whitelisted by Comcast so they will no longer flash it to disable the MOCA and it will remain on. Victory!


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## jgorran (Nov 4, 2013)

PSU Sudzi,

I assume, of course, that while you have have the XB3 modem/gateway, you don't have the Xfinity X1 DVR system with an Xfinity companion box? If that is so, then it is useful to know that without using the Xfinity companion box but still having the X1 DVR and the XB3 modem/gateway, I might have been able to have "connected to Moca network" without having to have used the Actiontec Moca adapter. Live and learn. But as I have admitted, who would ever "need" to have an X1 DVR and a Tivo Roamio plus except perhaps someone in my unusual situation.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

jgorran said:


> PSU Sudzi,
> 
> I assume, of course, that while you have have the XB3 modem/gateway, you don't have the Xfinity X1 DVR system with an Xfinity companion box? If that is so, then it is useful to know that without using the Xfinity companion box but still having the X1 DVR and the XB3 modem/gateway, I might have been able to have "connected to Moca network" without having to have used the Actiontec Moca adapter. Live and learn. But as I have admitted, who would ever "need" to have an X1 DVR and a Tivo Roamio plus except perhaps someone in my unusual situation.


Hi, your question is confusing as the X1 DVR creates the MOCA network, not the companion box. The MOCA from the X1 DVR is what interferes with the MOCA from the XB3 router and why Comcast flashes the router to deactivate it. And yes, I gave back my X1 DVR as I only use my Roamio and Mini.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Hi, your question is confusing as the X1 DVR creates the MOCA network, not the companion box. The MOCA from the X1 DVR is what interferes with the MOCA from the XB3 router and why Comcast flashes the router to deactivate it. And yes, I gave back my X1 DVR as I only use my Roamio and Mini.


I've been assuming from jgorran's problem description -- that is, everything works OK until he adds the Xi3 companion box to the mix -- that the X1 DVR's MoCA feature lies dormant until needed, much like it does on a MoCA-capable TiVo DVR -- as evidenced by the modem failures described in this past forum post.

Since you can't have two MoCA networks on the same coax lines, I would think that you'd need to segment your X1/Xi3 boxes and your TiVo MoCA devices on your coax lines, using strategically-placed MoCA filters and a couple splittters to isolate the two MoCA networks from each other.

Whether it's workable, in reality, depends on the coax runs in the home and where the devices are located. (e.g. Having a single coax run with both an X1 device and a TiVo in the same room would be problematic, assuming the TiVo required a MoCA connection.)


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

krkaufman said:


> I've been assuming from jgorran's problem description -- that is, everything works OK until he adds the Xi3 companion box to the mix -- that the X1 DVR's MoCA feature lies dormant until needed, much like it does on a MoCA-capable TiVo DVR -- as evidenced by the modem failures described in this past forum post.
> 
> *Since you can't have two MoCA networks on the same coax lines,* I would think that you'd need to segment your X1/Xi3 boxes and your TiVo MoCA devices on your coax lines, using strategically-placed MoCA filters and a couple splittters to isolate the two MoCA networks from each other.
> 
> Whether it's workable, in reality, depends on the coax runs in the home and where the devices are located. (e.g. Having a single coax run with both an X1 device and a TiVo in the same room would be problematic, assuming the TiVo required a MoCA connection.)


Actually I believe you can, if you use different frequency bands/channels for the MoCA. You should be able to run one MoCA system using Channel 15 and say another using Channel 17. Just make sure each segment is on the proper channel that you want for each device/node/LAN segment.

EDIT:

Actually I was curious so I researched some and I was sort of right. You can't do it in the same band, which for cable TV is usually Band "D", but you can have multiple networks on the same coax if you use different Bands, Like A, B, C, D or E (used for DirecTV, known as DeCA).

See this document, page 8-9:



> ...In all cases, only one channel per band is used on a physical network, although multiple networks may be formed over the same coaxial cable plant using different bands...


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Actually I believe you can, if you use different frequency bands/channels for the MoCA. You should be able to run one MoCA system using Channel 15 and say another using Channel 17. Just make sure each segment is on the proper channel that you want for each device/node/LAN segment.


I tried to keep it simple since we're talking strictly about MoCA for the average TiVo user, which means we're just dealing with one MoCA "band" of frequencies, and that's where the "one per" limit applies, IIRC, 1 MoCA network per band (though my current search fu is failing me to find the exact source for this belief). And I'm also assuming that Comcast's X1 would be trying to create a 2nd MoCA network on the same MoCA band used by TiVo, as I believe the band is intended for cable TV solutions.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Actually I was curious so I researched some and I was sort of right. You can't do it in the same band, which for cable TV is usually Band "D", but you can have multiple networks on the same coax if you use different Bands, Like A, B, C, D or E (used for DirecTV, known as DeCA).
> 
> See this document, page 8-9:


Ah, there you go. Your fu is strong.


> In all cases, only one channel per band is used on a physical network, although multiple networks may be formed over the same coaxial cable plant using different bands.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We're getting off-topic, since the issue at hand strictly relates to Comcast & TiVo, but trying to use many of those other bands would be problematic on coax lines also carrying cable TV/Internet signals (and simply isn't possible for the specific hardware in question, getting back to Comcast & TiVo).

.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

krkaufman said:


> Ah, there you go. Your *fu* is strong.
> 
> We're getting off-topic, since the issue at hand strictly relates to Comcast & TiVo, but trying to use many of those other bands would be problematic on coax lines also carrying cable TV/Internet signals (and simply isn't possible for the specific hardware in question, getting back to Comcast & TiVo).
> 
> .


Agreed!

I'm hoping your "fu" means "follow-up", and not the _other_ meaning that's been thrown at me on numerous occasions!


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## jgorran (Nov 4, 2013)

KR Kaufman,

You described my situation correctly. I only suffered through interference that effected both the Tivo Roamio Plus and the Mini when I attached the Xfinity Companion Box (which also tended to freeze up) to the coax network. While I never tried to play with filters, I did go a little deeper into the Moca network frequency used by my Actiontec and was able to change it six weeks ago. However, as you can see, it did not do the trick. Only removing the Xfinity Companion Box did. Again, I am satisfied with the final results.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Hi guys,
A couple of things, one if using MoCA 1.0 or 1.1 equipment, you can create and operate at least 2 different simultaneous MoCA networks by using different and fixed MoCA channels in the D band but you must have each connected to your router/switch on one of the units.
MoCA 2.0 uses groups of adjoining channels, 4 I believe, to get the higher throughput and the 2.0 standard also includes the possible use of an "extended" D band up to 1675MGz and in theory there is room to allow for up to 2 MoCA 2.0 networks to exist on the same coax.
When Verizon Fios was still back on MoCA 1.0 they would sometimes run out of MoCA "slots" on one network for customers with more than 8 TV's and would setup a second one with a separate MoCA 1.0 adapter (NIM 100) and set a different MoCA channel for some boxes to use.
Comcast's system is a bit of a mystery to me and I have been unable to get accurate and reliable information. I have read that some, possibly the newer versions of the xfinity TV/DVR equipment, actual have a "modem" of their own and separate MoCA system to connect to their satellite boxes but I don't know if this is accurate information. 
I know that when their MoCA gateways are used, it is the MoCA 2.0 standard and apparently these gateways are setup to be the MoCA "network controller".
What exactly is going on with jgorran's system when he connects the xfinity satellite box is puzzling to say the least, it is possible that the connection of that device triggers something on their DVR to become the "network controller" which then creates a conflict with the existing "network controller" and crashes the system. It is impossible to say with the limited information available.
There are several ways MoCA can be implemented on a device, as a "network controller", as a bi-directional device which can also "act as" a "network controller", and a receiver without the ability to become a network controller, aka the mini. Most adapters are in the 2nd category, but some few like the branded WCB3000N's are set to become the "network controller", which is why I believe they are also one the few devices which will force a MoCA 2.0 entire network down to MoCA 1.1 speeds.


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## jgorran (Nov 4, 2013)

Don't you all just love technology? That response from fcfc2 convinces me that as long as my current configuration "works", I will not chance screwing it up by attempting to change ANYTHING ELSE. Thanks for the discussion. I did learn more than I previously knew.


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