# Tivo Premiere Or Moxi



## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

I just was on MOXI web site and noticed their DVR has 3 tuners and HD Onscreen guide. Should I go with the TIVO PREMIERE or the MOXI DVR? Is the MOXI a good product?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

A thread about Moxi

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1095015


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Only you can answer that question based off your needs and preferences.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> Only you can answer that question based off your needs and preferences.


Good job boys! Fair and impartial!


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## skelm (Aug 23, 2001)

Moxi all the way


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

Media center beats them all.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Until Ceton delivers I would say 7MC, especially if you already own a 360 or a Windows 7 PC, is the best option for OTA/Clearqam recording but third for cable.

For Cablecard recordings today for me, I would go TiVo, Moxi, and then 7MC just due to cost of ATI tuners with multiple cable cards.

Now once the Ceton card is out and reviewed it may easily beat TiVo. It would definitely be before Moxi for me. 

Again though it all depends on how many rooms, tuners, hours, what features you need, and what cable companies you can choose from.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I've been a loyal TiVo customer for 4 years plus 4 years with DirecTV TiVo's. I called TiVo yesterday to see about upgrading my second Series 3 to a Premier. I was told that I am only going to get $100 off the XL model and I would have to pay $9.95 a month now instead of the $6.95 that I was paying before on my second TiVo Series 3 series plan. I am month to month.

I called BS and was transferred to a manager who told me the same thing.

I said that I would like a better deal and was told you will not get a better deal.

Now I am a customer that bought (2) TiVo Series 3's the week they came out for $700 each and have had both of them replaced twice and have had cable cards replaced several times as well. EVERY time I called TiVo to report an issue that needed a replacement it was a hassle and they wanted to charge me for refurbished boxes.

I am one foot out the door with TiVo and am really considering the Moxi.

We will see...


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

tazzmission said:


> I've been a loyal TiVo customer for 4 years plus 4 years with DirecTV TiVo's. I called TiVo yesterday to see about upgrading my second Series 3 to a Premier. I was told that I am only going to get $100 off the XL model and I would have to pay $9.95 a month now instead of the $6.95 that I was paying before on my second TiVo Series 3 series plan. I am month to month.
> 
> I called BS and was transferred to a manager who told me the same thing.
> 
> I said that I would like a better deal and was told you will not get a better deal.


That's the discount everyone gets. I've had a Series 2 since 2002, I get the same deal. Why should you get something different than other longtime customers?

Maybe Moxi can give you a competitive upgrade discount.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I feel that any long time customer that has invested that much money in TiVo should get a better deal.

The more I look at Moxi the less I think it will do for me. I'm not saying I will not buy a Premiere but I feel we long timers should get a better deal. That's all.

And I wanted to make the point the TiVo's customer service is horrible. It used to be great.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

timstack8969 said:


> I just was on MOXI web site and noticed their DVR has 3 tuners and HD Onscreen guide. Should I go with the TIVO PREMIERE or the MOXI DVR? Is the MOXI a good product?


get premiere and wmc wmc on windows 7 is nice. i use it to play back shows i download from my tivo hd. but i would never use my desktop as a dvr because it uses to much power. 130 watts premier uses 20 watts i think. Does it have a standby mode?


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## TroyB (Oct 20, 2006)

Plus side for Moxi that TiVo doesn't do:
~ 3-Tuners
~ HD GUI
~ Multi Room Streaming (Gets around CCI Byte Problems)
~ Ability to buy cheaper devices for extra rooms instead of full blown DVR.
~ Lifetime built into cost of unit, no monthly charges.
~ They seem to be constantly updating software.

Negatives about Moxi:
Although I have never seen a moxi DVR I have read about them.
~ Has HD GUI, but is not user friendly
~ Doesn't handle SDV Tuning adapters well.
~ Cable Companies are finally starting to learn about TiVo where if you call about problems with your moxi, they will probably not know what you are talking about.

If you can live with the negatives then I agree, right now it looks like Moxi is winning the battle, but who knows what TiVo has up their sleeve to win the War.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Can you offload from the Moxi to a PC for permanent storage or for burning to a BD or DVD like you can with the TiVo?

If not that is a huge negative for the Moxi.

And also a plus for the TiVo it gives you options. The Moxi only gives you Lifetime giving you a higher upfront cost. the TiVo gives you the option of getting Lifetime or getting a subscription where you pay monthly, which significantly lowers your upfront cost.
This is another negative for Moxi. You either get Lifetime or nothing at all.


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## Enrique (May 15, 2006)

TroyB said:


> ~ Doesn't handle SDV Tuning adapters well.


You could say the same about Tivos handling SDV Tuning adapters, in which many are having Tivo report the SDV Tuning adapters found and missing all within a 30min period(and having reboot Tivo everytime).

I've had a Moxi and never had a problem with SDV Tuning adapter.


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## Enrique (May 15, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> Can you offload from the Moxi to a PC for permanent storage or for burning to a BD or DVD like you can with the TiVo?
> 
> If not that is a huge negative for the Moxi.


With the CCI byte neither can Tivo.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Enrique said:


> With the CCI byte neither can Tivo.


Depends on your provider. I can transfer ANYTHING I record from FiOS to another TiVo or to a PC running TiVo Desktop. 
Then I can burn it to a BD or keep it on a hard drive.


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

I'm ordering "Premiere XL" right now. Thanks


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

TroyB said:


> Plus side for Moxi that TiVo doesn't do:
> ~ 3-Tuners
> ~ HD GUI
> ~ Multi Room Streaming (Gets around CCI Byte Problems)
> ...


All three negatives about Moxi that you posted are purely subjective.

-I find the HD interface easy. My wife has no problems with it.

-Tivo and Moxi both have problems with SDV

-Does the cable company representative not knowing about Moxi really constitute a negative?

Please do not use your subjective bias and post them as fact.

Here are some additional Moxi advantages

-Onscreen Ticker
-easy eSATA upgrades
-instant online scheduling
-Hulu via PlayON
-DLNA

Here are some *real* disadvantages and not subjective onles.
-no OTA tuner
-no Tivo to go
-requires PlayON

-


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

TroyB said:


> Plus side for Moxi that TiVo doesn't do:
> ~ HD GUI


Um, The Premiere does have an HD GUI.


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## suzook (Oct 22, 2006)

I had the MOXI, and tried very hard to like it. But in the end returned it. It was very sluggish at times...and it never got along with my cableco. I had alot of cablecard issues.


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

Got $200 off Lifetime service since I had a series 2 (single tuner) since 2004 Good Deal and Free shipping although $40.00 for Tax.


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## mchief (Sep 10, 2005)

And if I'm reading correctly no g or n wireless. You need MoCA or the house wiring thingee.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I don't think wireless should be built in to any device if it is going to cost more because of it. I would rather just pay for a dongle if I needed it. That way the box will cost less for people who don't need a wireless connection.

I'm using a TiVo wirless G adapter with two of my nine boxes. If it was built in that would be an additional cost for seven of those boxes that I don't need.
And now that a TiVo wireless N adapter will be coming out, I will get that to replace my two TiVo wireless G adapters.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

fatlard said:


> All three negatives about Moxi that you posted are purely subjective.
> 
> Please do not use your subjective bias and post them as fact.
> 
> ...


Those are also subjective though. An onscreen ticker isn't an advantage unless you want it which personally I don't. Can you turn it off?

Hulu while for some might be a benefit, personally I have used the site once, isn't guaranteed to work forever. It of course also requires a PC running play on.

Esata is nice for those that don't mind external drives and also have the room for them at their TV. This for me is highly outweighed by the fact you can't upgrade the internal drive.

I also don't see the benefit of instant online scheduling unless you don't plan your recordings in advance. Personally I have a few minutes once a week to use a site like thefutoncritic and schedule any new show this week or next I am intertested in.

Also with no option to dump my shows to my PC or upgrade the internal drive which I can do with my TiVo, 500gb for my house on one unit covers about 24 hours for 2 tuners. Now throw in 3 tuners and we are looking at maybe 16-18 hours of recording time if even that.


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## carlson (Mar 25, 2008)

While I understand there is no supported way to do this, has nobody hacked a solution to this yet?



fatlard said:


> Here are some *real* disadvantages and not subjective onles.
> 
> -no Tivo to go
> -


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

TroyB said:


> Plus side for Moxi that TiVo doesn't do:
> ~ 3-Tuners
> ~ HD GUI
> ~ Multi Room Streaming (Gets around CCI Byte Problems)
> ...


That list is off some

it is 3 digital tuners for Moxi - no OTA and if you want analog you get a USB dongle for one analog recording at a time.
Umm the premiere will have a kick ass HD UI that will likely be judged better than Moxi's which is somehwat cumbersome to mavigate

TiVo has lifetime, you can factor it right in at purchase, how many times does that need to be said

those cheaper devices only do streaming - no scheduling shows or other DVR functions. Do they get the playon streams for Netflix and such? That question just hit me and I do not know.

TiVo does need to add streaming between its DVRs


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

carlson said:


> While I understand there is no supported way to do this, has nobody hacked a solution to this yet?


No, and there won't be. The requirements put in place by CableLabs' makes this virtually impossible.

Moxi has real advantages and real disavantages. The inability to transfer recordings will remain a disadvantage for the foreseeable future.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> Esata is nice for those that don't mind external drives and also have the room for them at their TV. This for me is highly outweighed by the fact you can't upgrade the internal drive.


Just a bump... Looks like you cannot upgrade the internal drive on the Tivo Premiere as well. Therefore, Moxi and Tivo Premiere are equal in internal drive upgrades.

HOWEVER, Moxi can easily be expand using eSATA and not striped like Tivo.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Correct as of now you can't though it has been only out less than a week. I also had the choice to order the 1TB XL model which Moxi doesn't offer which is what I did since that is what I would have upgraded to. I could have lived with the normal Premiere with a 320gb drive though since I can transfer to the PC which Moxi doesn't allow.

The day Moxi comes with 1TB and allows easy automated transfers to the PC I might be interested. Then again by then it would need more than 4 tuners which is what I will have with the Ceton tuner here soon.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

hey why do you say the 7MC is better for OTA than Tivo?


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

For my preference it is purely based off cost and the option for more tuners on the same device. Windows 7 supports 4 tuners of each type per PC. I already have a 360 and a PC running windows 7. The only addition needed to convert the PC to a DVR was adding tuners which you can add 4 tuners for around $120 or $60 per pair at the low-end though there are also more expensive options. You then stream the recordings to the 360 with the built in interface. 

I just couldn't justify spending the money to only record OTA. Now if you are purely OTA and don't have and aren't planning on buying a Win 7 PC or 360 then the TiVo is probably the better bet especially if you are ok with paying monthly rather than buying lifetime. I just couldn't see paying $500-$600 to record OTA only.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

hmmmm, what about OTA with Netflix and Amazon, etc? and I have no 360


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

7MC will also do Netflix though not in HD yet. It is supposed to roll out later this year. Also it will do Amazon also on the PC itself which if no 360 you can always set up a mini PC at the TV itself. I already had 360s so I didn't need to do that.

If you look around here, especially at this thread and here, you will get an idea what you can pull off and for how much. There are some threads that discuss off the shelf systems if you look. Otherwise you can build your own. I know EngadgetHD was planning once the Ceton tuner is out to see if they can build a HTPC with the Ceton tuner for less than or the same price as a TiVo Premiere with lifetime.


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## NeoOnyx (Apr 9, 2010)

I love my TIVO and am considering upgrading to a Premiere. The I found Moxi and now I am having second thoughts. The biggest hurtle is dealing with the issues realistically:

1. Storage space - I'm not one to archive 400 movies that long without either burning them or downloading them from SOMEWHERE. One TB is nice for HD but Moxi can support 6GB externally, which means that if I was so inclined to buy multiple external drives from various vendors I can download whatever whenever.

2. DVR to PC Transfer - TIVO wins this round, but remember that horrible little continual updating from Moxi. May just wake up one day and TA-DA, a new program or something.

3. Netflix, Hulu, et. al. - OK, Netflix is now available on a Wii. Netflix is on my PS3, BluRay player and a couple of my TVs. I had PlayOn already so got it there too. There are more ways to see content all over so does it really really matter?

4. Monthly fees - Moxi doesn't have any monthly fees. That being said a well equipped TIVO Premiere PLUS a lifetime subscription would cost about the same as the Moxi 2-Room package. The major difference would be the second room aspect.

Bottom Line: it seems like there are pros and cons on both sides of the isle, but in the end as long as my family enjoys the programming and the quality of picture, it doesn't really matter what's hooked up


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

I have Netflix on the Wii and as long as you do not mind SD then it works really well. I watch it on an SD set so no idea if a good HD set would make Wii netflix use a bad experience


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

NeoOnyx said:


> 1. Storage space - I'm not one to archive 400 movies that long without either burning them or downloading them from SOMEWHERE. One TB is nice for HD but Moxi can support 6GB externally, which means that if I was so inclined to buy multiple external drives from various vendors I can download whatever whenever.


Keep in mind that you can't move specific recordings to specific external drives. You can't stick all House episodes on one drive and all Damages episodes on another drive. The recordings on the external drives are only accessible with a single Moxi; they can't be accessed or copied to a computer or another Moxi.



NeoOnyx said:


> 2. DVR to PC Transfer - TIVO wins this round, but remember that horrible little continual updating from Moxi. May just wake up one day and TA-DA, a new program or something.


I'm not sure what you mean here. I wouldn't hold your breath for feature updates on the Moxi. Right now, ARRIS is devoting most of its STB/DVR resources to an IP gateway solution for cable companies. Some improvements made for that product will probably find their way back to the Moxi, but that's not a top priority for them right now.



NeoOnyx said:


> 3. Netflix, Hulu, et. al. - OK, Netflix is now available on a Wii. Netflix is on my PS3, BluRay player and a couple of my TVs. I had PlayOn already so got it there too. There are more ways to see content all over so does it really really matter?


There's no Netflix 720p HD streaming on the Wii. Netflix plans to add Dolby Digital 5.1 this summer, but the Wii doesn't have any means to support surround sound.



NeoOnyx said:


> 4. Monthly fees - Moxi doesn't have any monthly fees. That being said a well equipped TIVO Premiere PLUS a lifetime subscription would cost about the same as the Moxi 2-Room package. The major difference would be the second room aspect.


No question the Moxi is a better value for those that want to serve 2+ rooms.

Multi-room streaming on the TiVo Premiere is inevitable, but TiVo has given no indication -- beyond a few surveys -- to suggest that they are considering extender type solutions. Without extenders, I don't see how TiVo can match the value proposition of the Moxi.


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## dewd2 (Feb 22, 2010)

I looked at both and decided to go with TiVo. It came down to the fact that to get NetFlix I would have to run PlayOn. Even with my dual core processor and 4 GBs of RAM, I do not have enough horsepower to do this successfully. I am not going to replace a perfectly good video card for NetFlix. Plus, even if I did, I doubt I could have 3 different NetFlix movies streaming at the same time in my 3 rooms. I tried this approach a few months ago with DirecTV and it was a complete failure....


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## HazelW (Dec 6, 2007)

I currently have two TiVo HDs and one Comcast HD box. I don't use on-demand or any of the streaming services. I can live without transferring stuff to my PC. 

With my Comcast package I get one HD box free and pay $17.80 for two additional outlets and $1.75 for cable card. I pay Tivo about $20 per month for service.

My plan (when my Tivo subscriptions expires in the fall) is to get a 3 tuner Moxi and two Moxi mates. I will turn in my Comcast HD box. I should get the Moxi and cable card free with my plan. I would then save about $40 a month without Tivo service fees and additional outlet fees. If I could sell my Tivos (upgraded to 1 Tb) for say $200 each, buy an external drive for around $100, the Moxi would start to pay for itself in about 18 months. Plus I would now have DVR service in the bedroom where the HD box is now.

Anyone see anything wrong with this plan?


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## jbernardis (Oct 22, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> I don't think wireless should be built in to any device if it is going to cost more because of it. I would rather just pay for a dongle if I needed it. That way the box will cost less for people who don't need a wireless connection.


I couldn't agree more. Everyone is complaining that the new premiere does not have wifi built in. I have wired networking to all of my tivo locations so I don't need wireless. Thus I wouldn't want to have to pay extra for a feature that I wouldn't use. The use of the dongle solves this issue, plus, as you say, it allows for easier upgrades as new technologies arrive.


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## riekl (Jan 29, 2001)

SullyND said:


> Um, The Premiere does have an HD GUI.


No .. it doesn't. 10% of the gui is hd, and that 10% doesn't work everyone is turning it off.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Not everyone. I run the HD UI in most of my Premieres.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

aaronwt said:


> Not everyone. I run the HD UI in most of my Premieres.


Same here. I'm having no issues with the HD UI and saying that the HD UI is only 10% of the UI is very, very misleading! The HD UI may well be only a small percentage of the total UI on paper, but I know for a fact in my case, I spend 90%+ of my time in the HD menus! I suspect most people would say the same.

The HD UI is nowhere near as bad as some people on this forum are screaming about. I sympathize with those people who are having problems but there are a heck of a lot more people out there, like me, who haven't had any real issues at all.


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## Goldwing2001 (Sep 30, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> Not everyone. I run the HD UI in most of my Premieres.


I too have not had any issues with the HDUI.


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## stmckin (Sep 23, 2006)

if only there was a sub $900 DVR solution that had:
-hd interface throughout
-OTA, 
-cable card,
-amazon netflix etc 
-high performance, 
-got updated software all the time from a huge software development company, 
-crazy easy to add storage to
-a big community with lots of third party apps
-home automation
-support for whatever remote devices you want
-other stuff

oh wait, windows 7 media center... duh


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

stmckin said:


> if only there was a sub $900 DVR solution that had:
> -hd interface throughout
> -OTA,
> -cable card,
> ...


And only consumes 24 watts?!

I love Windows 7. I have it on several Systems. But I'll stick with my TiVos for watching programming.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

HazelW said:


> I currently have two TiVo HDs and one Comcast HD box. I don't use on-demand or any of the streaming services. I can live without transferring stuff to my PC.
> 
> With my Comcast package I get one HD box free and pay $17.80 for two additional outlets and $1.75 for cable card. I pay Tivo about $20 per month for service.
> 
> ...


if you already have Tivo, why wouldn't you just buy lifetime? That would be cheaper than Moxi, and would eliminate part of your monthly costs


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> And only consumes 24 watts?!
> 
> I love Windows 7. I have it on several Systems. But I'll stick with my TiVos for watching programming.


The only thing with that is if you have anything stored on the PC you want to transfer or stream the PC will be on anyway. Why not have it recording also?

I know you tried HTPCs in 2000, but I wish you would at least try a couple OTA tuners in one of your many Win 7 PCs. It is so cheap to add tuners.

It isn't a replacement for TiVo imho, but it goes along nicely beside it even just for backup recordings with tons of extra padding. Since using 7MC for my Sunday CBS shows, I have yet to miss part of an episode that got cut off on TiVo since I had shows running at 11 so I couldn't pad on the TiVos. I would happily dump Win 7 if TiVo offered a true TiVo Desktop with the new HDUI and recording capabilities while using my own hardware. LiquidTV doesn't count.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> The only thing with that is if you have anything stored on the PC you want to transfer or stream the PC will be on anyway. Why not have it recording also?
> 
> I know you tried HTPCs in 2000, but I wish you would at least try a couple OTA tuners in one of your many Win 7 PCs. It is so cheap to add tuners.
> 
> It isn't a replacement for TiVo imho, but it goes along nicely beside it even just for backup recordings with tons of extra padding. Since using 7MC for my Sunday CBS shows, I have yet to miss part of an episode that got cut off on TiVo since I had shows running at 11 so I couldn't pad on the TiVos. I would happily dump Win 7 if TiVo offered a true TiVo Desktop with the new HDUI and recording capabilities while using my own hardware. LiquidTV doesn't count.


I did dabble with using a PC for backup recordings several years ago. I used a couple of Cats Eye USB tuners and the popular DVR software(I can't remember it's name) It would have been great if that would have been available before TiVo. But after using the TiVo for several years and then using that, it didn't come close to measuring up against the TiVos. And now if I for some reason miss an epsiode of a show, many are available for download for a small fee from several sources.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> I did dabble with using a PC for backup recordings several years ago. I used a couple of Cats Eye USB tuners and the popular DVR software(I can't remember it's name) It would have been great if that would have been available before TiVo. But after using the TiVo for several years and then using that, it didn't come close to measuring up against the TiVos. And now if I for some reason miss an epsiode of a show, many are available for download for a small fee from several sources.


I guess to me that is like saying I used a Series 1 originally so I don't see the point of trying a series 4.

Win 7 has just come so far as far as Media Center goes and since you are already running it in some of your PCs if I remember correctly. Now maybe it has just finally caught up to Sage/Myth or whatever else you might have used. I won't know since I never tried the others. I just figured since iirc you already have several Win 7 PCs it might be worth it to throw a $60 dual tuner for clearqam and OTA to try it.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> I guess to me that is like saying I used a Series 1 originally so I don't see the point of trying a series 4.
> 
> Win 7 has just come so far as far as Media Center goes and since you are already running it in some of your PCs if I remember correctly. Now maybe it has just finally caught up to Sage/Myth or whatever else you might have used. I won't know since I never tried the others. I just figured since iirc you already have several Win 7 PCs it might be worth it to throw a $60 dual tuner for clearqam and OTA to try it.


If electricity wasn't so high I probably would try it. But my PCs use more power than my HP MSS WHS with 24 hard drives running. At one time I ran six PCs 24/7 but not anymore with electric rates so high.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> If electricity wasn't so high I probably would try it. But my PCs use more power than my HP MSS WHS with 24 hard drives running. At one time I ran six PCs 24/7 but not anymore with electric rates so high.


Oh I thought you left a TiVo Desktop on 24/7 on one of your PCs for transfers. Maybe I am thinking of someone else. Of course with Win 7 hibernation/sleep actually works now so my PC only boots up to backup, download guide data, and record primetime shows and then goes to sleep 10 minutes after the last recording. The only other times is if I use the 360 to stream s recording but usually that is during primetime anyway.

Hey do you have somewhere how you setup your HP MSS with 24 drives? I am using a Norco case with WHS but still have my HP EX485 laying around since it didn't support adding on anything other than external drives or so I thought.


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## killzone (Oct 19, 2000)

fatlard said:


> Just a bump... Looks like you cannot upgrade the internal drive on the Tivo Premiere as well. Therefore, Moxi and Tivo Premiere are equal in internal drive upgrades.
> 
> HOWEVER, Moxi can easily be expand using eSATA and not striped like Tivo.


Not only can you upgrade the internal drive on the Moxi, but if your drive dies, you can access a special install menu that lets you format a drive and download the device software. No need for keeping images lying around.

As far as I'm concerned this is the best solution i've seen on any DVR.

When it comes to hard drives, it's not an issue of if it's going to fail, but when.

The other advantages I see for the Moxi are the 3 tuner support, support for DLNA for streaming music, vidoes (MPEG4 included) and availability of the Moxi mate.

Right now the Moxi mates don't support setting recordings or deleting shows, but it's on their to do list. I like the idea of using a moxi mate in the bedroom so I don't have to listen the whir of a hard drive all night.

They seem to be very responsive in getting software updates out and addressing concerns from their customers. With Tivo, it seems like if they don't want to do something, you could get a million customers to complain and they just won't budge.

From what I've seen, the only downsides for the Moxi are the lack of being able to transfer recordings to your PC (hopefully this will get addressed at some point) and lack of OTA tuners (doesn't affect me).


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

While it is nice that someone finally found a way to do, it comes at a big disadvantage and that is of course you lose all your recorded shows, season passes, and everything else you can carry over when you copy a TiVo drive. 

With the TiVo HD I can pull the drive at any time and copy it including my recordings and season passes. With Moxi I would have to wait until my drive was empty to do so.

In my house, an empty DVR is one that just came out of the box.

Did they fix it so you could use 2 TAs for the markets where the tuning adapters are limited to 2 tuners?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

killzone said:


> Not only can you upgrade the internal drive on the Moxi, but if your drive dies, you can access a special install menu that lets you format a drive and download the device software. No need for keeping images lying around.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned this is the best solution i've seen on any DVR.
> 
> ...


I think the best solution is allowing me to transfer to a PC for permanent storage. Which Moxi doesn't allow but TiVo does. I have over fifty Terabytes of storage available on my network now and I dedicate a small portion to TiVo recordings. I also have a TiVo server that has six Terabytes of storage available that has most of my transferred TiVo recordings.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> While it is nice that someone finally found a way to do, it comes at a big disadvantage and that is of course you lose all your recorded shows, season passes, and everything else you can carry over when you copy a TiVo drive.
> 
> With the TiVo HD I can pull the drive at any time and copy it including my recordings and season passes. With Moxi I would have to wait until my drive was empty to do so.
> 
> ...


you guys don't get it. you guys are so blind. too much tivo koolaid what if tivo had this feature you would be so happy. however tivo will never implement this since they have an xl version. this is clearly a huge feature to have but you discount it a say it does not transfer records and settings. as of right now you cant do any of this on your tivo premiere. so go ahead and pay a premium for your premiere drives on ebay.. oh yeah you recording don't transfer either....


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

fatlard said:


> you guys don't get it. you guys are so blind. too much tivo koolaid what if tivo had this feature you would be so happy. however tivo will never implement this since they have an xl version. this is clearly a huge feature to have but you discount it a say it does not transfer records and settings. as of right now you cant do any of this on your tivo premiere. so go ahead and pay a premium for your premiere drives on ebay.. oh yeah you recording don't transfer either....


Please abide by the forum rules, specifically rule #9 concerning "flame bait".


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

fatlard said:


> you guys don't get it. you guys are so blind. too much tivo koolaid what if tivo had this feature you would be so happy. however tivo will never implement this since they have an xl version. this is clearly a huge feature to have but you discount it a say it does not transfer records and settings. as of right now you cant do any of this on your tivo premiere. so go ahead and pay a premium for your premiere drives on ebay.. oh yeah you recording don't transfer either....


It has nothing to do with being blind or TiVo Kool-aid. Did you miss the Windows 7 Media Center in my signature? Why would I be happy if TiVo had this feature? It would suffer from the same negatives I posted about the Moxi.

Sure if you have a drive that starts to go bad and Moxi deletes all your recordings, like some posts mention on AVS, I am sure this feature is quite helpful. If I had a TiVo drive go bad and I didn't have a way to get an image, being able to just plug in a new drive would be great.

When I upgraded all of my TiVo HD, I did it because I wanted more space not because my drives were failing. As a result I have multiple backup images of all my drives including my upgrades which also have all my recordings and season passes.

Also with the TiVo Premiere and FiOS, I have no need to buy upgrade drives. I transfer my recordings to my server something Moxi still can't do. If my server gets low, I buy another drive and add it to the pool. The only reason I didn't do this with the TiVo HDs is the transfers weren't fast enough to justify not upgrading the drive first.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

stmckin said:


> if only there was a sub $900 DVR solution that had:
> -hd interface throughout
> -OTA,
> -cable card,
> oh wait, windows 7 media center... duh


Ceton card that is the first to do cable card will cost around 400$. Looks like a great solution but sub 900$ sounds a little unrealistic given the price of just the cable card tuner card


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

It can be done if you look at some of these builds and these.

Of course it is also difficult to predict what will and won't work perfectly until the card is out in the wild. I know EngadgetHD has plans to see if they can build a HTPC to compete with TiVo once the Ceton card is out.

Of course since the Ceton card is 4 tuners, I would say a better comparison is can you build a HTPC with the Ceton Card with more than 640gb of recording space plus a 360 for an extender for less than two Premieres with lifetime. MSRP would be $1296 before tax and shipping. If you take $600, $400 for Ceton and $200 for the 360, this leaves you $696 for the HTPC. Yeah obviously you can get a TiVo for less if you buy a refurbished HD or buy lifetime off ebay, but I also assumed you weren't buying the 360 Arcade for the $160 you can find it for these days new or cycling any old PC parts. For $700 you can build yourself or even buy a pretty nice PC.

Now if you take Silicon Dust's cable card solution which is supposed to run $250 for dual networked tuners, this leaves you $450 for the HTPC. Of course with the tuners networked you could buy something like a Dell Zino HD for $450. Again though who knows how well it would work until the cards are in consumers hands and of course by then hardware prices will have dropped even more.

Then again with today's announcement, come CEDIA/CES you may not need to build your own if companies take interest.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Ceton card that is the first to do cable card will cost around 400$. Looks like a great solution but sub 900$ sounds a little unrealistic given the price of just the cable card tuner card


If it has the TiVo interface I would consider it.

Otherwise the TiVo seems more efficient and cheaper over time. Especailly when coupled with TiVo desktop.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

If the cable card rules change and software no longer needs to be certified, maybe TiVo will actually look into releasing a true TiVo desktop where you can turn your PC into a TiVo using Ceton/Silicon Dust's tuners. 

I would definitely be interested. Then again if TiVo offered enough tuners it wouldn't really be necessary. The PC version could even be the first to support streaming since you wouldn't be dependent on the Broadcom chip.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

innocentfreak said:


> Then again with today's announcement, come CEDIA/CES you may not need to build your own if companies take interest.


Now we are talking. :up: If these get viable I may just replace one TiVo with this and incorporate it all together.
Please let them come with lots of expandable storage.


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## johnner1999 (Oct 26, 2002)

I was going to get the 3 tuner and one Mate... Only reason I went with Tivo is due to the fact that the Mates can not "control" the primary unit - by control I mean schedule shows. That was a deal breaker for me... BUT I really wanted the streaming vs copy version of MRV.



HazelW said:


> I currently have two TiVo HDs and one Comcast HD box. I don't use on-demand or any of the streaming services. I can live without transferring stuff to my PC.
> 
> With my Comcast package I get one HD box free and pay $17.80 for two additional outlets and $1.75 for cable card. I pay Tivo about $20 per month for service.
> 
> ...


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

johnner1999 said:


> I was going to get the 3 tuner and one Mate... Only reason I went with Tivo is due to the fact that the Mates can not "control" the primary unit - by control I mean schedule shows. That was a deal breaker for me... BUT I really wanted the streaming vs copy version of MRV.


Moxi has talked of getting the mates to control the main box. It really comes down to how much Arris will support a standalone retail model. Have there been changes to Moxi since Arris bought them that would indicate Arris is spending money on new Moxi features?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

johnner1999 said:


> I was going to get the 3 tuner and one Mate... Only reason I went with Tivo is due to the fact that the Mates can not "control" the primary unit - by control I mean schedule shows. That was a deal breaker for me... BUT I really wanted the streaming vs copy version of MRV.


They can't schedule shows?

What is the point of it then? You can stream to it and that's it? 
Even more reason why TiVos make more sense.

so as an example, you have a moxi mate in the bedroom and want to schedule a show. You're in bed, but now you have to get out of bed, go to another room, turn on the TV to schedule a show from the main unit.
That makes no sense at all. What a PITA that would be.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> They can't schedule shows?
> 
> What is the point of it then? You can stream to it and that's it?
> Even more reason why TiVos make more sense.


they put out something only half finished - wow. What a horribly run company.


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## NotVeryWitty (Oct 3, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> they put out something only half finished - wow. What a horribly run company.


Touché


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> they put out something only half finished - wow. What a horribly run company.


I never mentioned anything about the company. But featurewise, the TiVo blows away the Moxi. At least for my use.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> They can't schedule shows?
> 
> What is the point of it then? You can stream to it and that's it?
> Even more reason why TiVos make more sense.


Well, it is only a extender after all. You can stream shows or watch live tv assuming there is a tuner free. For smaller households I am sure it works fine. Personally, I don't manage my recordings very often. I setup season passes and auto-record wishlists and then leave it alone. The extender would be great for bedrooms (especially kids rooms).


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Now we are talking. :up: If these get viable I may just replace one TiVo with this and incorporate it all together.
> Please let them come with lots of expandable storage.


I didn't see any confirmation that these embedded devices would be able to act as extenders. PCs can't for some yet-to-be explained Microsoft reason (wanting to sell Xboxes, most likely). If they can't, they're useless in my book but I would assume that they will be able to.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

slowbiscuit said:


> I didn't see any confirmation that these embedded devices would be able to act as extenders. PCs can't for some yet-to-be explained Microsoft reason (wanting to sell Xboxes, most likely). If they can't, they're useless in my book but I would assume that they will be able to.


other way around - I have the media center device on my main TV input and use it with its full blown interface. The TiVo DVR's elsewhere in the house become the extenders and can get to shows recorded by the media center via PyTiVo or some similar setup (might take some work to initially setup but likely doable).

Since the TiVo DVRs cover other needs like streaming netflix or playing my ripped DVDs then I do not care about extenders for the media center.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

rainwater said:


> Well, it is only a extender after all. You can stream shows or watch live tv assuming there is a tuner free. For smaller households I am sure it works fine. Personally, I don't manage my recordings very often. I setup season passes and auto-record wishlists and then leave it alone. The extender would be great for bedrooms (especially kids rooms).


Of course if you look at 7Mc, their extenders give you this functionality. I set shows to record all the time via my 360.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

slowbiscuit said:


> I didn't see any confirmation that these embedded devices would be able to act as extenders. PCs can't for some yet-to-be explained Microsoft reason (wanting to sell Xboxes, most likely). If they can't, they're useless in my book but I would assume that they will be able to.


I thought the only thing you lose when using two PCs versus PC+extender is the loss of live tv. I thought everything else worked like streaming recorded shows. I have FiOS so I dont have to worry about flags so I havent looked into it fully.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> I never mentioned anything about the company. But featurewise, the TiVo blows away the Moxi. At least for my use.


How so? I have a Premiere and a Moxi so I'd be curious as to why you think that.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> other way around - I have the media center device on my main TV input and use it with its full blown interface. The TiVo DVR's elsewhere in the house become the extenders and can get to shows recorded by the media center via PyTiVo or some similar setup (might take some work to initially setup but likely doable).
> 
> Since the TiVo DVRs cover other needs like streaming netflix or playing my ripped DVDs then I do not care about extenders for the media center.


Windows 7 Media Center streams Netflix very well + you can choose recordings not in your queue.
It plays videos too so will also play your ripped DVDs.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

KungFuCow said:


> How so? I have a Premiere and a Moxi so I'd be curious as to why you think that.


If you read this and other threads, where Moxi is brought up you will see many of the reasons. One big one is no transfers to PC on Moxi.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

Another is no OTA support. Absolute dealbreaker for me.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

RoyK said:


> Windows 7 Media Center streams Netflix very well + you can choose recordings not in your queue.
> It plays videos too so will also play your ripped DVDs.


It just doesnt stream in HD yet.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

innocentfreak said:


> I thought the only thing you lose when using two PCs versus PC+extender is the loss of live tv. I thought everything else worked like streaming recorded shows. I have FiOS so I dont have to worry about flags so I havent looked into it fully.


There's also no integrated program guide or scheduling. You can view shared recordings - that's it.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

fyodor said:


> There's also no integrated program guide or scheduling. You can view shared recordings - that's it.


Ahh ok. I just use the PC or 360 so I havent tried PC to PC.

I only watch TV in two rooms so I stick with the extender setup. I may build a third here though to go at one of my TVs since my current one is at my desk.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Windows 7 Media Center streams Netflix very well + you can choose recordings not in your queue.
> It plays videos too so will also play your ripped DVDs.


yes, and so does the TiVo*, my point was simply since I have TiVo DVRs that one appliance with win7MC on my main TV will be a nice addition, assuming they get in around the 700$ price point for the other things win7MC does that TiVo does not. Why is everyone having such a hard time with the idea of adding in one win7MC to a group of TiVo DVRs?

*use search to get Netflix shows not in your queue - though TiVo needs to get a specific Netflix browse screen going


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> yes, and so does the TiVo*, my point was simply since I have TiVo DVRs that one appliance with win7MC on my main TV will be a nice addition, assuming they get in around the 700$ price point for the other things win7MC does that TiVo does not. Why is everyone having such a hard time with the idea of adding in one win7MC to a group of TiVo DVRs?
> 
> *use search to get Netflix shows not in your queue - though TiVo needs to get a specific Netflix browse screen going


I don't have a hard time with it at all. That's precisely what I have here.

TiVo's search is fine if you aren't just browsing - which is what I do very often with Netflix.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> I don't have a hard time with it at all. That's precisely what I have here.


then why the reply stating what I obviously was already considering? - my intent was quite clear in my post


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

KungFuCow said:


> How so? I have a Premiere and a Moxi so I'd be curious as to why you think that.


Well for one I can transfer content to a PC for Permanent storage. I transfer to my WHS with the TiVo add in and to a PC running TiVo Desktop. This is a feature i use on a daily basis. 
And I guess apparently the Moxi extenders can't be used to schedule shows. I need to be able to schedule shows from the box I'm using. I don't have any desire to go into another room, turn devices on, just to schedule some recordings.
I schedule shows mainly from my TiVos and occassionally online.

I guess OTA would be another. Two of my Premieres are OTA only.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> then why the reply stating what I obviously was already considering? - my intent was quite clear in my post


I know it may be hard for you to believe but I was actually agreeing with you on something.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> I know it may be hard for you to believe but I was actually agreeing with you on something.


well that completely threw me


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

innocentfreak said:


> Ahh ok. I just use the PC or 360 so I havent tried PC to PC.
> 
> I only watch TV in two rooms so I stick with the extender setup. I may build a third here though to go at one of my TVs since my current one is at my desk.


It's a shame. I'd really love to be able to get one of the Ceton tuners for my downstairs machine and use a SFF PC as a client. The wife would never go for the 360 in the bedroom. Too noisy and ugly.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

fyodor said:


> It's a shame. I'd really love to be able to get one of the Ceton tuners for my downstairs machine and use a SFF PC as a client. The wife would never go for the 360 in the bedroom. Too noisy and ugly.


yeah - I have not seen every model of Xbox 360 but everyone so far I considered way too noisy when turned on.
I am more into the idea of having one win7MC on my main TV and then using my TiVo DVRs for playback of its recordings elsewhere. I have just wanted a nice form factor for it while hitting that 700$ price point


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

fyodor said:


> It's a shame. I'd really love to be able to get one of the Ceton tuners for my downstairs machine and use a SFF PC as a client. The wife would never go for the 360 in the bedroom. Too noisy and ugly.


At least it's not as ugly as the PS3. woof. But it is certainly louder.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

orangeboy said:


> Another is no OTA support. Absolute dealbreaker for me.


+1


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## turbobozz (Sep 21, 2006)

fyodor said:


> It's a shame. I'd really love to be able to get one of the Ceton tuners for my downstairs machine and use a SFF PC as a client. The wife would never go for the 360 in the bedroom. Too noisy and ugly.


A new Xbox 360 form factor is rumored to be announced at E3 this summer.
Maybe this one will be quiet?


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## killzone (Oct 19, 2000)

innocentfreak said:


> If you read this and other threads, where Moxi is brought up you will see many of the reasons. One big one is no transfers to PC on Moxi.





orangeboy said:


> Another is no OTA support. Absolute dealbreaker for me.


These are the only 2 features that the Moxi is missing (well they need manual time slot recordings too, but i hear it's on their to do list). I agree they could be dealbreakers to some.

For me the dealbreaker about the Tivo was lack of support for DLNA, lack of support for an extender, only 2 tuners.

I do think that at some point or another they will deal with transfers to PC as well as allow recording/scheduling from the mate. I believe they eventually plan to work it such that if you have more than 1 DVR, recordings will get scheduled and prioritized amongst all the DVRs you have. As it stands, you can see all the recordings available to be viewed in one folder, no matter which DVR they are on.

I really did want to like the new Tivo offering. I still have a pre 2000 series 1 sitting around that I get a free transfer of the lifetime off of. I just felt very underwhelmed by the premier. I really expected an extra tuner or 2, DLNA support and a much better home media model. They seem to be working on improvements at a snails pace.


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## killzone (Oct 19, 2000)

aaronwt said:


> They can't schedule shows?
> 
> What is the point of it then? You can stream to it and that's it?
> Even more reason why TiVos make more sense.
> ...


Agreed. The current workaround is to use a laptop or iPad to schedule your shows. In the long run, setting up your recordings and such is a lot faster and easier via the web than using a remote.

Still, there are times when you are lying in bed and want to to hit record on something before going to sleep.

I'm sure they will add this as it's something pretty much everyone has asked for. It's a must have feature.

In any case, I don't want to listen to a HD going in my bedroom anymore. I'll suffer till they add this feature.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

killzone said:


> For me the dealbreaker about the Tivo was lack of support for DLNA, lack of support for an extender, only 2 tuners.


The only part of those I would want is more tuners. If I am going to go 3, I might as well go 4 and just add a tuner card to my Windows 7 PC which is my plan.

For me to go an extender route, I am going to need at least 6 tuners in one location preferably 12. I only use 2 TVs so unless I have a ton of tuners in a single location then I want several at both TVs.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

killzone said:


> These are the only 2 features that the Moxi is missing (well they need manual time slot recordings too, but i hear it's on their to do list). I agree they could be dealbreakers to some.


Does the Moxi do Suggestions?


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

killzone said:


> These are the only 2 features that the Moxi is missing (well they need manual time slot recordings too, but i hear it's on their to do list). I agree they could be dealbreakers to some.


 While perhaps not a deal breaker another big disadvantage is lack of advanced wishlists - that is also issue with Ceton + MCE. Right now it is very convenient if you follow particular sports teams to be able to setup an auto record wishlist that will record only games for your sports teams across multiple channels and group all such recordings in same folder. As an example on my TiVos I have:
title keyword: NBA Basketball
keyword: Lakers
Category: HD
Wishlist Name: Lakers

I don't believe either Moxi or MCE can be setup for example such that you filter both by title keyword and keyword, or even ability of combining multiple keywords with boolean logic such as TiVo allows. It's a very powerful feature.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I don't know if MCE has any form of wishlist. I never use it on my TiVo so I always forget about it.

Looking at my Win 7 PC, it does have a basic wishlist where you can set it by Actor Name, Director Name, Movie Title, Program Title, or Generic Keyword. Now since 7MC does have advanced recording features you can set 

Generic Keyword: Lakers
Category: Sports/Basketball
Frequency: Every Time or Once
Show Type: Live, New, or New & Rerun
Channels: Any Channel, HD Preferred, HD Only, SD Preferred, SD only, or specific channel
Keep: Until Space Needed, Latest Recordings, Until I watch, or Until I delete
Stop: up to 3 hours after always or when possible.

I could definitely see this being useful though for recordings Movies since you could say Movie Title, HD Only, and then record once.


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## killzone (Oct 19, 2000)

innocentfreak said:


> While it is nice that someone finally found a way to do, it comes at a big disadvantage and that is of course you lose all your recorded shows, season passes, and everything else you can carry over when you copy a TiVo drive.
> 
> With the TiVo HD I can pull the drive at any time and copy it including my recordings and season passes. With Moxi I would have to wait until my drive was empty to do so.
> 
> ...


A dead drive is also an empty drive and being able to replace the drive easily even if you don't have an image is important. When someone figures out the partion types used on the moxi then true images and expansion will be an option too.

If you just need to expand storage, then you can go with an external drive.



aaronwt said:


> I think the best solution is allowing me to transfer to a PC for permanent storage. Which Moxi doesn't allow but TiVo does. I have over fifty Terabytes of storage available on my network now and I dedicate a small portion to TiVo recordings. I also have a TiVo server that has six Terabytes of storage available that has most of my transferred TiVo recordings.


50TB that is a lot of space. I can't say transfering to PC is not important but I don't think that many people have their own datacenters with that much storage space available to archive recordings.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

killzone said:


> A dead drive is also an empty drive and being able to replace the drive easily even if you don't have an image is important. When someone figures out the partion types used on the moxi then true images and expansion will be an option too.
> 
> If you just need to expand storage, then you can go with an external drive.


I agree with regards to a dead drive being empty. As a TiVo drive starts to drive, you can pull it and copy it or use /dd to possibly copy an image of a failing drive.

As far as using external drives, personally I don't want to keep a bunch of external drives at my TV with no way of knowing what is on each drive. It is much easier to transfer everything from my server. I am only up to 5TB but I have just recycled old harddrives and I am slowly adding storage as prices drop.


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## killzone (Oct 19, 2000)

SullyND said:


> Does the Moxi do Suggestions?


No suggestions. I'm not sure if anyone other than Tivo has that. Do they have it patented?

It is a nice feature, but I haven't really missed it since I have too much stuff to watch anyway.


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## killzone (Oct 19, 2000)

innocentfreak said:


> The only part of those I would want is more tuners. If I am going to go 3, I might as well go 4 and just add a tuner card to my Windows 7 PC which is my plan.
> 
> For me to go an extender route, I am going to need at least 6 tuners in one location preferably 12. I only use 2 TVs so unless I have a ton of tuners in a single location then I want several at both TVs.


I agree 6 tuners would be a nice amount. I'm not sure what kind of hardware you would need though to record 6 things at once while possibly streaming 6 things to extenders at the same time. I can't imagine needing 12 tuners though. What did you have in mind for that? I guess if you have a big family and everyone likes to watch live tv. I do know that 4 tuners is not enough.

I just may have to play around with a Windows 7 pc and some tuners. I did consider that route, but I'm not sure I want something that big and power hungry running 24/7. These days I tend to leave my Quad off as it raises the temparature of my office by about 5 degrees.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

killzone said:


> These are the only 2 features that the Moxi is missing (well they need manual time slot recordings too, but i hear it's on their to do list). I agree they could be dealbreakers to some.


The lack of manual recording wasn't a dealbreaker for me, because Moxi provides a "restrict to this timeslot" option on series recordings.

For me, the dealbreakers were the absence of key DVR features:


No ability to sort by date.

No overlap protection to prevent conflicts when programs overlap by five minutes or less.

No ability to create custom series recordings.

I use the Premiere's custom series recording feature to automatically record *all new*:


award shows (Academy, Emmy, and Grammy Awards, Golden Globes, etc)
bowl games (BCS Championship, Rose Bowl, Orange Bowl, Sugar Bowl, Cotton Bowl, and Fiesta Bowl)
drafts for NBA, NHL, NBA
golf majors (Masters, U.S. Open, PGA Championship, etc) 
grand slam finals (Australian Open, French Open, U.S. Open, Wimbledon)
MLB ALCS, NLCS, and World Series games
NBA Finals games
NCAA tournament (Sweet 16 / Elite Eight / Final Four only)
NHL Stanley Cup playoff games
Presidential debates
University of Maryland (men's football & basketball)
Washington Capitals games
Washington Nationals games
Washington Redskins games
All of the above events are recorded year after year, regardless of date, time, and channel. Each is stored in its own folder, as seen in the screenshots below. This is easily one of TiVo's most powerful features.




Click images for larger.

Creating wishlists was a hassle under old TiVos with the on-screen keyboard, but it is much easier with the USB wired/wireless keyboard support (and upcoming keyboard remote).

Windows Media Center provides some wishlist recording functionality, but Moxi provides none at all.



killzone said:


> I do think that at some point or another they will deal with transfers to PC
> 
> as well as allow recording/scheduling from the mate. As it stands, you can see all the recordings available to be viewed in one folder, no matter which DVR they are on.


I wouldn't hold your breath on the PC transfers; that feature is not on their roadmap. Arris -- Moxi's new owner-- is focused on features for MSOs, and larger MSOs aren't interested in that feature.

Most of Arris' resources are devoted to its commercial IP gateway solution for cable companies, but the ability to schedule from remote clients is a feature planned for that product. I expect Arris to port that feature over to the Moxi Mate by the end of the year.



killzone said:


> I really did want to like the new Tivo offering. I still have a pre 2000 series 1 sitting around that I get a free transfer of the lifetime off of. I just felt very underwhelmed by the premier. I really expected an extra tuner or 2, DLNA support and a much better home media model. They seem to be working on improvements at a snails pace.


No question, Moxi is far ahead (and TiVo far behind) when it comes to DLNA and multi-room streaming. But be aware that Moxi no longer spends tens of millions on R&D as it did in years past. That spending drove Moxi out of business.

Arris-- the company that bought Moxi last fall in a fire sale -- said the acquisition would increase its R&D spending by $5m per year. TiVo spends ten times that amount on a yearly basis.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

killzone said:


> I agree 6 tuners would be a nice amount. I'm not sure what kind of hardware you would need though to record 6 things at once while possibly streaming 6 things to extenders at the same time. I can't imagine needing 12 tuners though. What did you have in mind for that? I guess if you have a big family and everyone likes to watch live tv. I do know that 4 tuners is not enough.
> 
> I just may have to play around with a Windows 7 pc and some tuners. I did consider that route, but I'm not sure I want something that big and power hungry running 24/7. These days I tend to leave my Quad off as it raises the temparature of my office by about 5 degrees.


12 tuners allows all recordings for the most part without conflicts and tons of padding. Also with M-cards supports 6 streams this would be the max with 2 cards. I don't care about live tv since I never watch it. I just want to be able to record everything I want to record without thinking about it.

If you already have Windows 7 just pick up a cheap dual tuner to try it out. Mine is set to only wake to record or when I want to stream. Otherwise it is sleeping.


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## killzone (Oct 19, 2000)

innocentfreak said:


> 12 tuners allows all recordings for the most part without conflicts and tons of padding. Also with M-cards supports 6 streams this would be the max with 2 cards. I don't care about live tv since I never watch it. I just want to be able to record everything I want to record without thinking about it.
> 
> If you already have Windows 7 just pick up a cheap dual tuner to try it out. Mine is set to only wake to record or when I want to stream. Otherwise it is sleeping.


I think I will play around with this. Any recommendation on cheap dual tuners?


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## killzone (Oct 19, 2000)

bkdtv said:


> The lack of manual recording wasn't a dealbreaker for me, because Moxi provides a "restrict to this timeslot" option on series recordings.
> 
> ....
> 
> ...


All valid points. Tivo definitely has more flexible recording options at the moment.

For budgets of over 10M a year, both companies should have better products. I'm not sure what Tivo was spending it on to come up with the premier from the HD...


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

killzone said:


> I think I will play around with this. Any recommendation on cheap dual tuners?


It depends on what you will be recording. I went with the Avermedia Duets White Box since I am on FiOS so only have clearqam or OTA available.

Of course you could always try the Silicon Dust HDHomerun which Jafa on here helped make.

Here is a HTPC guide with some of the options.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> Well for one I can transfer content to a PC for Permanent storage. I transfer to my WHS with the TiVo add in and to a PC running TiVo Desktop. This is a feature i use on a daily basis.
> And I guess apparently the Moxi extenders can't be used to schedule shows. I need to be able to schedule shows from the box I'm using. I don't have any desire to go into another room, turn devices on, just to schedule some recordings.
> I schedule shows mainly from my TiVos and occassionally online.
> 
> I guess OTA would be another. Two of my Premieres are OTA only.


Well, I download content elsewhere.. I dont transfer to my PC from Tivo so I didnt even think about that. As far as remote scheduling, you can schedule Moxi online as well. I expect at some point Mates will be able to schedule. I dont have a Mate so its kind of irrelevant to me.

The Moxi is a good box. It works very well and is more stable than the Premiere. If the PC transfer was up to level of performance of Tivo, the Moxi would be superior for what I use it for.


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