# Feint Glimmer of hope (maybe)



## alunj (Oct 9, 2000)

Didnt pick up on this earlier !

TiVo® HD DVB Reference Platform

Higher Intelligence for Your Home Entertainment System

At last, there's a premium High-Definition product at an affordable price. Introducing the new TiVo® HD DVB Reference Platform, combining the intelligence of the TiVo service with the razor-sharp clarity of HD recording. Designed as a universal set top box to work with any DVB source, the platform also offers network connectivity delivering the best of broadcast and broadband TV, right to your living room. Get TiVo and raise your home theater I.Q.

Product Overview:

* Controls TV with Record, Pause, Rewind, and Fast-Forward in HD

* Records two HD channels at once, while watching another recorded show

* Records uo to 20 hours in HD (or 180 hours in Standard Definition)

* Designed specifically for DVB-T viewers. (DVB-S support optional)

* Video output modes include: 480i, 480p, 576i, 576p, 720p, 1080i

* Sources supported: DVB-T, DVB-S (optional)

* Outputs: HDMI, SCART, Component Video, Composite Video, Digital Audio, Analog Audio

* Connectivity and Expansion: Ethernet, 2xUSB 2.0 ports, eSATA

* WiFi connectivity supported via USB adapter (sold separately)

TiVo Service Features:

* Get broadband videos, music and photos from the internet on you [sic] TV

* View videos, music and photos from your PC on your TV

* Schedule recordings online

* Take your video recordings with you on your portable media player of laptop using TiVoToGo

* Discover broadcast and broadband shows with universal Swivel Search

* Easily pre-approve what your kids watch with TiVo KidZone


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Where did you get this from?


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## steveroe (Oct 29, 2002)

I'm hoping to be proved wrong, but this is talking about the US HD Tivo, model TCD652160

http://dynamic.tivo.com/resources/assets/TiVoHD_SpecSheet.pdf


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

Not attempting to prove you wrong but couldn't this be a significant difference:



alunj said:


> Designed as a universal set top box to work with any DVB source,





linked PDF said:


> Designed as a universal cable box to work with any cable provider


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## Tim L (Jan 5, 2002)

The mention of a SCART output sounds promising too - it's not something you're likely to find on a US model.


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## afrokiwi (Oct 6, 2001)

me thinks he got it from here:

http://www.gizmolovers.com/2008/01/08/tivo-prepares-to-sweep-the-globe/



TCM2007 said:


> Where did you get this from?


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

afrokiwi said:


> me thinks he got it from here:
> 
> http://www.gizmolovers.com/2008/01/08/tivo-prepares-to-sweep-the-globe/


Now *that* is interesting


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## Tim L (Jan 5, 2002)

Interesting indeed! Shame the pictures on the site are kaput.


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## steveroe (Oct 29, 2002)

I'm *extremely* happy to see I might be wrong 

I've also been digging through the Tivo investor reports:

From Second Quarter Ended July 31, 2007 http://investor.tivo.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=262025

"[...]on the international front, we made strong progress. Our deal with Seven Network, Australia's leading broadcast company, continues to generate excitement in Australia and this quarter we took another important step in our relationship by signing a statement of work. The hardware that we develop for this platform will be based on the digital terrestrial DVB-T standard, which has been adopted to date in 30 countries and is on its way to representing more than 100 million homes by 2009. *We believe that development work for this HD platform will be highly leveragable across many more significant international markets, giving us the framework to drive TiVo's international business going forward.*[...]" (my emphasis)


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## alunj (Oct 9, 2000)

afrokiwi said:


> me thinks he got it from here:
> 
> http://www.gizmolovers.com/2008/01/08/tivo-prepares-to-sweep-the-globe/


Thats it , sorry was so excited i didnt put the link in.
I really cannot understand why the like of humax are not going there with freesat .
Can it be that cheap to develop their own from nothing !?
I have requested more info on the CES literature from TiVo , be interesting to see I even get a response.

Also from the same blogger
------------------
One thing about the DVB platform. I'd noticed recently that some of the press articles on the Australian TiVo have started referring to 'Australia and New Zealand'. Since all of the official announcements have only mentioned Australia, I was curious about that. Well, the launch will be in Australia. But Seven Network also operates in New Zealand and they're looking to expand, so it is expected that they will deploy TiVo in New Zealand following the Australian deployment. The the Kiwis should be getting their taste of TiVo as well.

Also, to point out the obvious, TiVo still has a service infrastructure in the UK to support the Series1 units that were sold there. Everything is in place to support new TiVo units in the UK market. The UK is one of the territories that uses DVB. TiVo is developing an international DVB platform. Put two and two together. TiVo would not confirm any plans to re-enter the UK market with the new platform when I asked, but they did say it certainly seems to make sense given the facts. I think we will probably see new DVB TiVo's available in the UK once the Australian deployment is launched and the platform is ready.


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## healeydave (Jun 4, 2003)

Its amazing what people find on the net.

I have discussed ideas for a new platform with Tivo including following on with the series 1 theme of having the ability to have multiple set-top-box sources which I like rather than the Sky+ model of being tied to a satellite or freeview only all-in-one box. That works for Sky business model because its the only platform they want to support (although that may change in the future .

I also probed the idea of a modular box, where-by the computer board is kept separate from the Media board allowing for simple future re-deign / additions (e.g. so you could have a new HighDef Tivo PVR with a BBC/ITV FreeSAT Media Board or a VM Cable Media Board etc.

I don't know if any of this has had any influence but I think Freeview & FreeSAT (non sky model) make an excellent opportunity for Tivo to finally return, fingers crossed.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

The fact that the machine has SCART sockets as well as HDMI & Component and will support both TVB-T and DVB-S implies that they do indeed have an eye on the UK Freesat market. A single machine that would work with Freeview, Freesat and HD Freesat would be a great piece of kit for the UK and could definitely steal customers from Sky+ IMHO, as long as the subscription model suited the UK consumers.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

I hope they don't forget us Cable users. Yes, I know that we have the V+ but, other than the ability to "record 2 and watch a 3rd" I still prefer my Tivo and with all the +1 channels and repeats of shows even that's not really necessary 

However, I don't suppose they'll bother with another platform agnostic machine


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## alunj (Oct 9, 2000)

I put the pics here as some seem to have problems with them in the blog above
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alunjuk/tags/tivo/


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## alunj (Oct 9, 2000)

and
Gemstar-TV Guide and TiVo Enter into Patent License Agreement for International Deployments of TiVo Service

http://investor.tivo.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=303695


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## mqarkcambie (Jul 20, 2004)

steveroe said:


> I'm *extremely* happy to see I might be wrong
> 
> I've also been digging through the Tivo investor reports:
> 
> ...


Well, that's very interesting, because I've recently been out to work at Seven in Melbourne (about a month ago) to comission their subtitle system for 5 regions in HD and SD. I didn't hear of any talk about Tivo, but they are very definately doing DVB in both SD and HD. 
Don't expect any nice looking DVB bitmap subtitles though, as they are using DVB Teletext subtitles for both the HD and SD services. (Yuk! - still it saves space in the transport stream and Australians traditionally use teletext on line 21 page 801).

As far as I'm aware there aren't any US operators using DVB for the US market - there are some transmitting their channels to Europe as DVB pre-subtitled. Japan does have a mix of some operators using DVB or ATSC, but ATSC is more prevalent.

I'd go with the fact that as it has SCART then it's for Europe. Whooo Hoo!


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## alunj (Oct 9, 2000)

its odd they dont mention it.
from oztivo
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Just a quick note, Australian Field trials for TiVo began end of January and have now entered the 2nd phase with more detailed technical tests being carried out.

The trials are due to be completed by the end of June.

Seven still hopes to launch TiVo in Australia before the Beijing Olympics.

Peter
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and

http://www.mytivo.com.au/Careers/

Following Seven's recently formed partnership with TiVo Inc., we have some unique technical opportunities available to assist with introducing TiVo's digital video recorder and user interface to the Australian marketplace. These positions require a blend of technical and personal skills to deliver an exciting new product to market that reaches across the full breadth of Seven's group companies.

We have the following opportunities available:

TiVo Architect / Developer 
TiVo Engineer 
These are truly unique opportunities to participate in shaping the "next generation" of television


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## mqarkcambie (Jul 20, 2004)

I was dealing with the broadcast signal at point of creation rather than the latter distribution part of the chain, so to me it didn't really matter where the signal went after we'd injected our subtitles into it. It could at that stage go to DVB-T, DVB-H, DVB-S, analogue terrestrial or cable it wouldn't really make any difference to our part.
In all probability, the Tivo part isnt done at Seven docklands anyway hence why I didnt see or hear anything about it.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> The fact that the machine has SCART sockets as well as HDMI & Component and will support both TVB-T and DVB-S implies that they do indeed have an eye on the UK Freesat market.


Maybe. Or maybe the German, Italian or French markets...


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> Maybe. Or maybe the German, Italian or French markets...


Um, true of course. But what perverted logic would lead TiVo to introduce a new machine to Germany or France without also making that machine available to the UK where there are already 30,000 TiVo users...?


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

TCM2007 said:


> Maybe. Or maybe the German, Italian or French markets...


Oi! Don't forget us fennoscandians


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> Um, true of course. But what perverted logic would lead TiVo to introduce a new machine to Germany or France without also making that machine available to the UK where there are already 30,000 TiVo users...?


The perverted logic that they've already tried and failed to enter the UK market?


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## wonderboy (May 27, 2003)

Surely a statement of intent from Tivo is not too much to ask for? There are quite a few UK tivo users I am sure would hold of going FreeSAT, SkyHD or anything else *if* Tivo were to state that a new box will be able to be subbed in the UK... 

It just seems madness not to at least establish some vague timeframe to reassure their loyal customers that they are listening. We shouldn't have to read about this stuff on some Random's blog!!


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## afrokiwi (Oct 6, 2001)

I have always wondered if TiVo&#8217;s relationship with SLY has stopped them moving back into the UK market ....


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## Tim L (Jan 5, 2002)

wonderboy said:


> It just seems madness not to at least establish some vague timeframe to reassure their loyal customers that they are listening. We shouldn't have to read about this stuff on some Random's blog!!


Until they actually get a partner willing to make and sell the boxes in the UK, it's all just speculation really.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Not going to happen. Paying just for an EPG is a non-starter in the UK TV market today (*Free*view, *Free*sat), you'd have to enjoy burning your own £10 notes to even think about it. It could only work if tagged on to a service which gives you actual channels for your monthly fee, but all of them have their own systems, so I can't see it.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

The new TiVo box could most likely be configured pretty much as a drop in replacement for the V+ for a start....

That's the beauty of a stand-alone system like TiVo - it can work with almost anything, as the recently added support for Freesat shows. And as a side note, why would TiVo bother adding support for Freesat to _our_ boxes if they were planning to discontinue the UK service? More likely that they are using Series 1 Freesat users as a testbed for the Freesat support offered with the new box IMHO.

The subscription model currently employed in the US is also a lot more advanced than the crude £10 per month or lifetime choice we had. New TiVos in the US can be bought with anything from 12 to 36 months of subscription included in the initial purchase price, and the cost to carry on with the basic service after that is negligible - especially to somebody who has got used to 3 years of TiVo living...


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## cyril (Sep 5, 2001)

TCM2007 said:


> Not going to happen. Paying just for an EPG is a non-starter in the UK TV market today (*Free*view, *Free*sat), you'd have to enjoy burning your own £10 notes to even think about it. It could only work if tagged on to a service which gives you actual channels for your monthly fee, but all of them have their own systems, so I can't see it.


One possible idea is to throw in a number of on-demand shows bundled into the monthly service fee - maybe a deal with BBC, Amazon unbox, or some Hollywood studios.

Otherwise the only UK chance is for a super-expensive high-end system partnering with Sky - if Kaleidescape can sell £30k DVD systems, I don't see why a £3k TiVoHD multiroom multituner server system would not sell.


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

cyril said:


> I don't see why a £3k TiVoHD multiroom multituner server system would not sell.


I can't see it really competing with a multiroom multituner server system based upon Vista MCE and MCE extenders, once they add HD support. That would cost less than a third of the price for a three-room system.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

blindlemon said:


> The new TiVo box could most likely be configured pretty much as a drop in replacement for the V+ for a start....


I still see that as the best option TBH. Since tivo have the software already running on the same hardware as the V+ and its pretty suited to the subscription model already.

A freeview model is going to have a problem with those who don't want to pay a sub,
especially if its over £100 for the unit, but a 1-3 momth trial period would be enough to tempt them.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> New TiVos in the US can be bought with anything from 12 to 36 months of subscription included in the initial purchase price, and the cost to carry on with the basic service after that is negligible - especially to somebody who has got used to 3 years of TiVo living...


That's very hard to do. If you do it at retail then the retailer takes their mark up on the bundled sub as well as the hardware, leaving you with next to nothing.

And if you do it direct it puts the price up massively - a TiVo with lifetime is $500, which would probably translate £400. That's a lot when it's competing with Freeview PVRs at £120 or so.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> And as a side note, why would TiVo bother adding support for Freesat to _our_ boxes if they were planning to discontinue the UK service?


Because Tribune had to get the Freesat data set together anyway for Windows MCE and also because there is no new actual EPG data to collect and no software modifications to the S1 UK Tivo required.

Hence there is an almost nil additional cost to Tivo in providing Freesat support, depending on the precise terms of their EPG data supply contract with Tribune for the UK service.


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

iankb said:


> I can't see it really competing with a multiroom multituner server system based upon Vista MCE and MCE extenders, once they add HD support. That would cost less than a third of the price for a three-room system.


But you're forgetting the annoyance factor. A suitable PC for that isn't particularly cheep, often aren't very quiet, and are rather power hungry.


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## cyril (Sep 5, 2001)

kitschcamp said:


> But you're forgetting the annoyance factor. A suitable PC for that isn't particularly cheep, often aren't very quiet, and are rather power hungry.


Agreed. PCs are fine if you do all the support for them yourself - there's too many things that can go wrong. They are getting cheaper every day, but 3 quiet HD extenders and a quiet HD suitable Vista Media PC should set you back about £1.3k at least.

High end multiroom audio and video distribution systems in the residential custom install market are not usually PC-based.

If you have just 3 SkyHD boxes on the full package you will have paid about £600 initially and then £95 per month. Even if Sky allow access to their HD content to Vista Media Centre, you would probably still have to pay the £95 per month.

An integrated multituner server system makes sense to both Sky and the consumer as Sky still have full control over their content and the consumer gets a simple way to watch different HD channels in 3,4 or more rooms with one box. The custom installer is also happier as there is just one box to install and less messing about with. Pace are working on such a system, but sadly I don't think it has TiVo software in it


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

Nowadays, you should be able to build a quiet twin-tuner Vista MCE machine for around £500. I can see the mass-market appeal of Vista MCE and HD content growing as hardware prices fall, and then prices of pre-built systems should drop even more.

A 3-room system only needs two extenders, so that should keep the price down. I admit that Xboxes are a bit noisy as extenders, but my Vista MCE PC now runs very quiet.

Don't feel tempted to add a high-end gaming graphic card. You can get a silent GeForce 8500GT card from MSI, or get a newer motherboard with built-in HDMI/DVI graphics. The Antec Fusion case looks good, and is very quiet. A cheap Core 2 Duo processor is all you need, and the Hauppage twin-tuner Freeview card is very good.

Hopefully, Hauppage will bring out a twin-tuner FreeSat card to support an HD version of Vista MCE when it comes out. Going for the PC approach, it will be relatively easy to upgrade the operating system and/or tuner card, instead of having to replace the whole machine.

If you leave your Vista MCE machine alone, and don't try to run high-performance games on it, it should be quite reliable. Certainly more reliable than the TiVo/digibox combination, with the Sky box locking up quite regularly.

The other advantage is that you can run an internet browser, or an internet TV service such as Miro, or torrent downloads, on the same machine. And if a file needs a new codec, you can just run up an alternate application to view it. The Miro application includes a much better HD viewer than VLC, and is very useful for that reason alone.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

Interesting news from Tivo in Australia - it is going to be released without a subscription fee


> Business Day
> TiVo launch imminent, minus monthly fee
> Paul McIntyre
> May 22, 2008
> ...


I reckon a TiVo box without subscription fee, even if it means a higher purchase price, would be a better fit for the U.K. market than the old subscription model.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Because Tribune had to get the Freesat data set together anyway for Windows MCE


The MCE data is from BDS, not Tribune.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

cyril said:


> Agreed. PCs are fine if you do all the support for them yourself - there's too many things that can go wrong. They are getting cheaper every day, but 3 quiet HD extenders and a quiet HD suitable Vista Media PC should set you back about £1.3k at least.


If you go the extender route your PC can be as noisy as you like - mine's in my study, nowhere near any TVs.

And the PC doesn't needed to be specced up for HD as it doesn't actually output any video. Doesn't need a moniror even, so £400-£500 for a a dual core headless box with 2Gb RAM will be more than fine, the extenders are £180 each, so I recon you could do it under a grand.

But you're right, you need a PC savvy home network administrator to make it viable!


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

iankb said:


> Hopefully, Hauppage will bring out a twin-tuner FreeSat card to support an HD version of Vista MCE when it comes out.


The hardware's out:

http://shop.blackgold.tv/product/3540.html

Just need the software support!


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## nathan (Feb 18, 2002)

I was running Vista MCE on a 6 year old Compaq D500 (so old it doesn't have USB 2), twin PCI tuners and quiet as anything. Only cost me &#163;50, worked fine.

Anyone who spends hundreds of pounds on a PC needs their head seeing too.


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## cyril (Sep 5, 2001)

nathan said:


> I was running Vista MCE on a 6 year old Compaq D500 (so old it doesn't have USB 2), twin PCI tuners and quiet as anything. Only cost me £50, worked fine.
> 
> Anyone who spends hundreds of pounds on a PC needs their head seeing too.


For SD a £50 PC is fine.
For HD it gets somewhat more expensive, especially if you want Blu-ray support.


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## nathan (Feb 18, 2002)

cyril said:


> For SD a £50 PC is fine.
> For HD it gets somewhat more expensive, especially if you want Blu-ray support.


Don't the new graphics cards do the decoding themselves? So there's no need for a particularly meaty machine?


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## cyril (Sep 5, 2001)

nathan said:


> Don't the new graphics cards do the decoding themselves? So there's no need for a particularly meaty machine?


The ones that do are still a bit pricey. Don't forget the quadrupling in disk space requirements and extra hardware to decode HDCP as well as HD-audio plus a blu-ray drive. Of course the prices of these are dropping every week!

I could set my parents up with Vista Media Centre for SD viewing as the PCs are dirt cheap now and I have many spare parts to build a few.

However there is no way I would do so as the support costs would be horrendous - TiVo only requires maybe 10 minutes a year, whereas Vista Media Centre/Apple TV/MythTV etc would cost me thousands of pounds in lost productivity and holidays and I would get the blame for everything


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

From the conversations I've had with folks at TiVo, I think it is likely that they will be re-entering the UK market. If not this year, probably next.

(BTW, it is 'faint hope'.)


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

Tell us more...


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

I can't really, they were 'off the record' conversations. But, for example, one on the record Q&A at CES I mentioned the DVB-T reference box, the EFIGS software, the existing UK infrastructure, and asked if TiVo had plans to re-enter the UK market - and I got a wry smile and something like "That would be a logical conclusion, but we haven't announced any plans."

Personally I think they're hoping to find a partner to help pick up the costs of launching a new product in the UK, like Seven in Australia, but TiVo may decide to do it on their own if they can't find one within a reasonable time.


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

megazone said:


> I can't really, they were 'off the record' conversations.


 Fair enough 



megazone said:


> But, for example, one on the record Q&A at CES I mentioned the DVB-T reference box, the EFIGS software, the existing UK infrastructure, and asked if TiVo had plans to re-enter the UK market - and I got a wry smile and something like "That would be a logical conclusion, but we haven't announced any plans."
> 
> Personally I think they're hoping to find a partner to help pick up the costs of launching a new product in the UK, like Seven in Australia, but TiVo may decide to do it on their own if they can't find one within a reasonable time.


That's sounds really hopeful, thank you.

May I ask what your relationship is with tivo?


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

Raisltin Majere said:


> May I ask what your relationship is with tivo?


I run GizmoLovers.com, which used to be TiVoLovers.com - I renamed it earlier this year because the scope of the site had moved beyond just TiVo. I've been a TiVo users since 02/2002 and I've attended CES the past five years and always spend a good amount of time at TiVo's suite. I was also one of the pre-release reviewers on the Series3 and the TiVo HD. And I've signed more NDAs with TiVo over the years than I can count. 

But I don't work for TiVo - actually I work for Sling Media now, as of April 7.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

megazone said:


> Personally I think they're hoping to find a partner to help pick up the costs of launching a new product in the UK, like Seven in Australia, but TiVo may decide to do it on their own if they can't find one within a reasonable time.


Humax would clearly be a logical partner since they are already involved with making non PVR Freesat boxes and intend to make a PVR Freesat box too.

They are also used to working with Tivo and making PVR boxes that use their service

The Freesat consortium might also be willing to throw in some money too to give them a premium Freesat PVR product.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

I still can't see how any "pay for an EPG" service can possibly get any traction in the UK market given the different free and paid services now on offer.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> I still can't see how any "pay for an EPG" service can possibly get any traction in the UK market given the different free and paid services now on offer.


Perhaps no need to pay for an EPG if the EPG has targeted advertising in it or something along those lines.

The new Seven Tivo model in Australia is not going to be making an EPG charge.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> The new Seven Tivo model in Australia is not going to be making an EPG charge.


Yes it's being subsidised because Seven is in a head to head battle with FoxTel. I can't see any possibility of Freeview or Freesat doing the same here. Freeview doesn't need to, and Freesat has a budgets of the change found down the back of the sofa in the BBC's reception area.


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## SPR (Nov 28, 2001)

Current UK Time-Shift habits:
http://www.redback.com/Redback/Home/News&Events/PressReleases/YouGov_Survey_05_19_08.html

Not directly TiVo launch related I know - but shows the current viewing trend and that people are looking at the UK market.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Perhaps no need to pay for an EPG if the EPG has targeted advertising in it or something along those lines.
> 
> The new Seven Tivo model in Australia is not going to be making an EPG charge.


From the TiVo results for the quarter:-


> On the broadband front, what continues to set us apart is our approach to become a comprehensive video solution - one box, one remote, one user interface and all content from all sources. We continue to add more content choice to our offering and recently announced content deals with Disney and YouTube. These content deals, which are all expected to be become available in the next few months, build on the 30,000 movies and television shows from Amazon and the four million songs from Rhapsody, connecting TiVo users with entertainment possibilities in a way no other company can.


This could be what sets TiVo apart in the UK, and may be the marketable 'extra' compared to other Freeview and Freesat recorders that would persuade people to pay a small subscription for the service, even though we all know it's worth the sub for the TiVo alone :up:


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## afrokiwi (Oct 6, 2001)

"VHS machines (27%)." 

People still have VHS machines?



SPR said:


> Current UK Time-Shift habits:
> http://www.redback.com/Redback/Home/News&Events/PressReleases/YouGov_Survey_05_19_08.html
> 
> Not directly TiVo launch related I know - but shows the current viewing trend and that people are looking at the UK market.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> This could be what sets TiVo apart in the UK, and may be the marketable 'extra' compared to other Freeview and Freesat recorders that would persuade people to pay a small subscription for the service, even though we all know it's worth the sub for the TiVo alone :up:


Surely its more the case that they can earn enough commission on movie sales from Disney etc via their new enhanced platform to make charging for the EPG itself no longer necessary.


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## Gavin (Jan 1, 2003)

megazone said:


> I can't really, they were 'off the record' conversations. But, for example, one on the record Q&A at CES I mentioned the DVB-T reference box, the EFIGS software, the existing UK infrastructure, and asked if TiVo had plans to re-enter the UK market - and I got a wry smile and something like "That would be a logical conclusion, but we haven't announced any plans."


Could just be they designed the box to do everything and the end maker chooses what to fit. One reference design fits all has always been a tivo aim.


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

Re: questions about Media Center reliability. 

I ran a dual-tuner DVB-T Media Center set-up - initially with a VGA to RGB SCART / Radeon 1024x576i display mode set-up, and then with an Xbox 360 extender as the TV connectivity.

The picture quality was significantly better than Tivo, and the functionality pretty similar. I had no issues with reliability - though AIUI the main cause of lost recordings is the PC clock having CMOS battery issues.

This was XP Media Center Edition - I retired the set-up when I shifted to Sky HD - but my home-made quiet and cheap box had effectively replaced my Tivo towards the end. Originally the box was built as a simple media player for music and video file replay - I only bunged the DVB-T tuners in it for a laugh - but was pleasantly surprised how well it worked.

I didn't run any other applications on the box - apart from a firewall and antivirus software. I also disabled automatic Windows Update installation - automatic download with manual installation worked well.


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## wonderboy (May 27, 2003)

I regularly have to fix my dad's XP media center whenever he breaks it (which happens often).

There's just too much can go wrong, and as cyril pointed out it is a support nightmare if you are a techie and have family members who meddle. Tivo doesn't allow them to touch it because they are just not familiar enough to risk messing about with it.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

I view all TV through extenders, and there's not much the family can break from them.

Occasionally a Big Red Switch is required, but less so now I've removed all other software from the box bar uTorrent.

Vista made things a bit less stable, but the interface is so much better I live with it.


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## mbuckhurst (Apr 14, 2002)

Sneals2000 said:


> Re: questions about Media Center reliability.
> 
> I ran a dual-tuner DVB-T Media Center set-up - initially with a VGA to RGB SCART / Radeon 1024x576i display mode set-up, and then with an Xbox 360 extender as the TV connectivity.
> 
> ...


That's quite the opposite of what I've found, I've got 2 media center PCs sitting next to me here in my office waiting to be re-assigned to a task that they can manage, my Tivo bought umpteen years ago came out of temporary retirement 6 weeks after going into the loft, because the other half had finally had enough....

Issues I experienced

1) PC hanging on a regular basis
2) MCE deciding it was no longer possible to schedule recordings
3) MCE forgetting the guide
4) Regular reboots required, or 1-3 happened even more often
5) Noise from the disks/fans far worse than Tivo, but positively silent compared to an Xbox 360.
6) Every 10-15 minutes, everything just pauses for 5 seconds, including recordings.

Basically compared to Tivo the PCs are pants, I like MCE when it works, but even on a HD capable dual core based system, the problems just meant it became unusable in my lounge.

If Tivo re-introduce themselves in the UK I'll be one of the first to get one.

mike


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

I recognize 1-5, in particular 2, although Vista seems to have fixed that one, and I haven't (touch wood) had 3 under Vista either.

5 is cured with the new second generation dedicated extenders, which are completely silent.

6 I've not seen.


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

I've found my Vista MCE and Xbox 360 setup to be very reliable, and I built the PC to look good in the lounge and be very quiet.

I use an Antec Fusion case with large slow fans, a Core2 Duo processor, a passively-cooled video card, a Hauppage twin-Freeview tuner, and a Blu-Ray/HD-DVD combo player. The video card drives my 40" Samsung LCD at 1920x1080, with very-good upscaling of SD.

However, the Xbox's are noisy, but not enough to justify the cost of replacing them with anything quieter.

I had more issues with my TiVo/Sky combination, because of the Sky box repeatedly locking up, and the occasional bad channel-change.

The only real issue that I have with MCE is that the EPG tends to treat every repeat on every channel as a new recording. I have to keep deleting the duplicates in the schedule, or delete them after recording. However, with the ability to just keep adding larger drives, including external e-Sata or USB drives, recording space is not really an issue. MCE will happily use any space in the standard file systems.

While I don't know how well a dual-tuner TiVo would handle them, a dual-tuner MCE setup has very good conflict management.

The advantage of the MCE extender setup is that the extenders can view totally-different recordings to the PC, whereas the only option with a TiVo is to distribute the single TiVo output.

I also use MCE to distribute music, including displaying a photographic slideshow while playing the music.

Overall, I have to say that the MCE setup is significantly better than a Series 1 TiVo, if only because of the multiple tuners. As to how it would compare with a multi-tuner Series 3 TiVo, I have no idea. I would hope that TiVo would not have followed in the footsteps of Sky+, and would have improved their EPG significantly between series. I find the high-resolution graphical MCE menus to be much better than the 'low-resolution' TiVo interface.


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## nathan (Feb 18, 2002)

For about a year I ran XP MCE as our main recording system via three DVB-T tuners, with Tivo as a backup. I had MCE on a nightly reboot cycle which helped stability no end, and we found the one-box-does-all approach (music, TV, DVD) very good.

I've recently moved to Vista and it's been fine, I've even stopped the nightly reboot. I've now put another tuner in there too, and it handles the conflicts without a problem. I've been thinking about putting in a passive HD graphics card and a Bluray drive, but don't currently see the need.

This time last year I had two Tivos. Sold one 6 months ago, and have now sold the other. I was really sorry to see them go, but I've found something that's more flexible and stable enough (for me, who likes to tinker) as a replacement.

I too think that Tivo will struggle to sell a subscription based model in this country now, though I hope that doesn't stop them coming back.


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