# TV upgrade to HD prompts setup rethink



## Major dude (Oct 28, 2002)

I'm just about to acquire a 2nd 1080i capable LCD and I need some guidance with my changing my current setup.

My kit consists of two 1080i capable LCDs, SKYHD, NTL, Freeview box, and two TiVos one with a 120gb Hard drive. We only need to watch one TV at a time as it just me & the misses. Currently we have one 32'' LCD in the bedroom with the SkyHD, and the rest of the kit is in the lounge and linked by a videosender so we can watch the TiVos output on the LCD if we want. 

Ideally I would like to set an N network with everything linked so I can access any source from each of the TVs, but thats for the future. For now I would settle with just linking the SKYHD to the kit in the lounge so I have an 1080i source for the new 42 '' LCD in the lounge. I considered using 2 *shielded cat5 and soldering on 5 phono plugs at each end but settled on using a proper 3 phono component coaxial lead for video and digital toshlink cable for audio feeding an AEGO 5 using the component out from the skyHD and drilling bigger holes in the walls. I will remotely control the SKYHD with a pyramid extender kit and a second sky remote or OFA 6 from the lounge if I can get the sky+ codes onto it. I`m upgrading the second TiVo with a 250gb drive running mode 0 to improve potential pq for sourcing the new HD LCD in the lounge with SD. Okay so far.

My problem is should I use the upgraded TiVo to control the SKYHD for sd output only or continue to use freeview as the source meanwhile sourcing recorded HD output from the SKYHD directly? Do you think sd output from SkyHD is worth the trouble as compared to freeview output? Any problems using TiVo to control a skyHD via a pyramid or do I need an rf2link as well?

As regards sourcing the mode 0 TiVo, the second LCD in the lounge only outputs on a non RGB scart. Would it be better to split the component input to allow an RGB scart feed to the TiVo and is this possible?

When my Sky contract expires in June, I will consider not renewing and using the passive box as a live HD and sd source for TiVo and acquiring a v+ TVdrive box from NTL/virgin. I will then use the component lead the other way round to supply the bedroom LCD with 1080i from the +v /TVdrive. Not sure what I will do about audio this way round as I will need an AV amp in the bedroom to convert a digital source.

Anyway feel free to make any suggestions as my head is spinning and I need to lie down.


----------



## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Major dude said:


> I'm just about to acquire a 2nd 1080i capable LCD and I need some guidance with my changing my current setup.
> 
> I`m upgrading the second TiVo with a 250gb drive running mode 0 to improve potential pq for sourcing the new HD LCD in the lounge with SD. Okay so far.


Mode 0 is an absolute must for LCDs. I was bitterly disappointed with PQ on my LCD before I went mode0 and was considering ditching tivo because of it.

Now I can't tell the difference between aux & tivo - its that good.



> My problem is should I use the upgraded TiVo to control the SKYHD for sd output only or continue to use freeview as the source meanwhile sourcing recorded HD output from the SKYHD directly? Do you think sd output from SkyHD is worth the trouble as compared to freeview output?


It might be worth trying dual-source on your tivo (freeview via scart, sky input via rf into tivo) just for convenience of the guide menus... you don't lose anything this way and can still access sky "directly" if you like.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> It might be worth trying dual-source on your tivo (freeview via scart, sky input via rf into tivo) just for convenience of the guide menus... you don't lose anything this way and can still access sky "directly" if you like.


That is not a possible option.

The dual Sky and Freeview setup requires Sky via Scart and Freeview via RF which in turn requires a Freeview box with an RF modulator output.


----------



## Major dude (Oct 28, 2002)

mikerr said:


> Mode 0 is an absolute must for LCDs. I was bitterly disappointed with PQ on my LCD before I went mode0 and was considering ditching tivo because of it.
> 
> Now I can't tell the difference between aux & tivo - its that good.


Thanks Mikerr,

Thats money well spent on a new 250gb Hard drive with Mode 0 option then.

I'm encouraged. :up:


----------



## Pugwash (May 23, 2003)

This is perhaps not the correct answer, but I download content using P2P software that's often from HD source and exceeds standard resolution. There's new HD streaming hardware coming out that can play back from shared network drives.

At the moment, I have 1TB of storage on a wired 100mb network feeding two modified XBoxes playing standard format TV's in two rooms, plus the three kids upstairs through wireless 54mb.

The 1TB is through a 500GB Buffalo Gigabit NAS with a 500GB USB drive plugged in the back. Room for one more drive and it's half-full already. The NAS was around 200 quid, the USB drive around 100 quid.


----------



## Major dude (Oct 28, 2002)

Major dude said:


> My problem is should I use the upgraded TiVo to control the SKYHD for sd output only or continue to use freeview as the source meanwhile sourcing recorded HD output from the SKYHD directly? Do you think sd output from SkyHD is worth the trouble as compared to freeview output?


I have realised this will not work as I will not be able to use the HD outputs live if it is being used as a source for the TiVo. So I will use independent feeds for the TiVos using the old NTL box when it is replced by the +V and a freeview box for the other TiVo if I keep it.


----------



## itm (Aug 12, 2001)

Is it possible to dual source Tivo using SkyHD via SCART and Sky+ via RF?


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

itm said:


> Is it possible to dual source Tivo using SkyHD via SCART and Sky+ via RF?


In a word No and don't forget Tivo can only record one source at once so what would be the point.

You could feed your Sky HD into the Tivo VCR socket and then switch from watching Tivo output to Sky HD bix output directly by pressing the VCR bypass button on the remote. But obviously any HD programs on the Sky HD box wouldn't be shown in HD using this method.


----------



## itm (Aug 12, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> In a word No and don't forget Tivo can only record one source at once so what would be the point.


I've got lousy Freeview and analogue reception (I live in a difficult area for signals), and the new 42" LCD has made this more obvious than it ever was...


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

itm said:


> I've got lousy Freeview and analogue reception (I live in a difficult area for signals), and the new 42" LCD has made this more obvious than it ever was...


You can use Sky HD as the main source for your Tivo which has been discussed elsewhere in the forum. For some reason the Scart output from a Sky HD box to the Tivo is superior quality wise to that from an ordinary Sky box.

However coming back to your original question though if you one Sky box via Scart to Aux to be the Tivo recording source you can still watch other programs on the other Sky box while you are recording by plugging it the VCR socket of the Tivo and hitting the VCR button to watch it. But you would still have to change channel using the normal Sky remote.


----------



## itm (Aug 12, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> However coming back to your original question though if you one Sky box via Scart to Aux to be the Tivo recording source you can still watch other programs on the other Sky box while you are recording by plugging it the VCR socket of the Tivo and hitting the VCR button to watch it. But you would still have to change channel using the normal Sky remote.


The only problem is when you're recording a Sky channel on Tivo - you then won't be able to change channels on Sky until the recording has finished.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

itm said:


> The only problem is when you're recording a Sky channel on Tivo - you then won't be able to change channels on Sky until the recording has finished.


You can still change channels on the Sky HD box you have wired into the Tivo via the VCR Scart socket and you have two tuners on the Sky HD box of course, even if you are recording one program on it.


----------



## itm (Aug 12, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> You can still change channels on the Sky HD box you have wired into the Tivo via the VCR Scart socket and you have two tuners on the Sky HD box of course, even if you are recording one program on it.


So what would be the benefit of watching SkyHD through the Tivo VCR socket? You couldn't record from it, or use live pause for example. If the Tivo didn't add any value then you'd be better off watching SkyHD connected directly to an HDMI socket on the telly? (which would still leave me the issue of a decent quality 2nd recording source for the Tivo)


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

itm said:


> which would still leave me the issue of a decent quality 2nd recording source for the Tivo


Well you don't seem to have a decent Freeview or analogue aerial signal so that seems to leave you fresh out of options for a "decent" 2nd recording source for the Tivo.

Freeview as a secondary source in any case has to be input to the Tivo through the RF Aerial socket and the picture provided to the Tivo via that means is not very good quality compared to Sky or Freeview or NTL/Telewest or Homechoice via Scart. So even if you had a decent analogue aerial or Freeview signal for your Tivo you would still be disappointed with the quality.

Forgive me if I have missed something garingly obvious but you shell out for Sky HD at £47 or £51 per month or more anyway and that gives you all the channels that are available on Freeview plus many more so why do you need this second analogue or Freeview recording source at all? Even if you did have an adequate signal for an analogue aerial or a Freeview source it would still be vastly inferior in quality to your Sky program source when input as a secondary RF signal?

If all you want though is another channel to watch while Tivo is recording something then both the second tuner on the Sky HD box and or simply a second Sky box using Sky Multiroom should let you watch other things while you are recording from your first Sky box.

What have I missed? If you pay for Sky HD you get all the pay channels which are free on Freeview but pay on Sky so you have no need to receive Freeview. Obviously I have missed something but for the life of me I can't think what that is.


----------



## itm (Aug 12, 2001)

Actually I don't yet subscribe to SKyHD - this is something I am considering as a workaround to my lack of a decent 2nd Tivo recording source.

My problem is not just watching another channel while Tivo is recording, it's having a decent quality recording source for Tivo which doesn't tie up the Sky box. 

e.g. My wife was recording Al Murray last night on Tivo via Sky/AUX (because the ITV terrestrial signal is so poor), and I wanted to watch Football First on Sky Sports but couldn't because Tivo was hogging the Sky box (Sky+ was also set up to record something else on BBC at 10pm). If she'd been able to record to Tivo using a decent quality source other than Sky then everyone would've been happy - e.g. Tivo taping Al Murray from the 2nd source, Sky+ taping the BBC programme at 10pm, and me watching the footie.

Does this make sense or is it me that's missed something?


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

You obviously seem to need a second program source for watching one program live while other stuff is recording.

So if you get a Sky HD box or a second ordinary Sky box then clearly you can watch another program live on the other box while Tivo is recording from the first one.

You just run the Scart lead and/or HDMI lead from the second Sky box direct to the television or if you prefer to the VCR socket on your Tivo so you can switch source using the Tivo remote.

Clearly Sky+ or Sky HD should take care of your dual recording needs because the boxes have their own recording capability in addition to that of Tivo. Obviously the only snag is the high subscription cost of Sky but it sounds like you pay that anyway due to being a Footie addict?

Your only other option would be a second conventional Sky box and second Tivo purchased from Ebay.

What does the www.ukfree.tv website have to say about your postcode? Perhaps you just need a better television aerial to get Freeview? However admittedly that can cost you around £200 to get done but at least its a one off and should then last you 10 to 20 years............


----------



## itm (Aug 12, 2001)

Yes it looks as if SkyHD would imprvove my situation, at a cost of another tenner-a-month plus £300 for the box.

ukfree shows me as being in range of the Crystal Palace digital transmitter. I've spoken to a local aerial fitter and he says I've already got a high-gain aerial which should be suitable. I could upgrade it and elevate to about 16ft, for about £300, but he said there was no guarantee that it would improve things.

Curiously, the Freeview signal on the new telly's integrated tuner is just about OK so there's obviously potential there, but I've tried a BT/Netgem Freeview box and channels 1-4 are unwatchable. I'm wondering whether I should try an alternative Freeview box which is better at dealing with poor signals?


----------



## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> You just run the Scart lead and/or HDMI lead from the second Sky box direct to the television or if you prefer to the VCR socket on your Tivo so you can switch source using the Tivo remote.


No SCART lead should ever sully a SkyHD box!


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

itm said:


> Curiously, the Freeview signal on the new telly's integrated tuner is just about OK so there's obviously potential there, but I've tried a BT/Netgem Freeview box and channels 1-4 are unwatchable. I'm wondering whether I should try an alternative Freeview box which is better at dealing with poor signals?


The BT (Netgem) IPlayer box has a very good tuner in it made by Sony and is one of the best in a weak reception area. Of course that was 2 to 3 years ago or so. Perhaps the latest Freeview tuners are even more sensitive.

Being on the edge of the Crystal Palace footprint 25 or so miles away is very flakey. A relative's house down south to the far west of the Crystal Palace footprint area is supposed to get all Freeview tv channels but in fact doesnt't get the ITV Multiplex at all. All other five multiplexes show as having a strong signal on the box. Admittedly the aerial dates back to 1980 or so though but its on a long pole and brings in a perfectly acceptable picture on analogue on all five channels including ITV.

Even though you already have Sky I believe you are still quite entitled to have another Freesat only box installed at the house with its own dish for £150 by going to the www.freesatfromsky.co.uk website.

As long as you don't mind paying around £600 to Sky in subs then perhaps Sky HD is the way to go. But think how much that adds up to over 10 years................. 

The BBC and ITV should be launching their no subscription HD box and service some time in the next 12 months.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> No SCART lead should ever sully a SkyHD box!


It would if it was feeding a Tivo surely?


----------

