# TiVo Coming Back To UK!!



## Glen

Received a comment today from a TiVo video on youtubeTivo is coming back!



> "TiVo boss Tom Rogers said this afternoon that he was "hopeful" that TiVo would be launched in the UK "soon"!
> 
> So will TiVo produce a FreeView or Freesat based box? We can't see them getting into bed with Sky again after the last time. The Sky+ experience is shockingly bad, how is it in 2008 our Sky+ system isn't even CLOSE to the TiVo box we bought eight years previously?"


any1 know any more?


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## davisa

launched? I think he means re-launched!

We live in eternal hope...


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## gazter

Glen said:


> Received a comment today from a TiVo video on youtubeTivo is coming back!
> 
> any1 know any more?


Tivo has always been hopeful...

Tivo is not going to re-enter the UK in anyway other then on a lockeddown freeview basis. 
I watch sky, for 100% of my non downloaded tv. While it would be good news for tivo in general to enter into the UK, without sky access, prety pointless to me (sadly).


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## pgogborn

I expect Tom Rogers is also "hopeful" that he will win the lottery "soon".


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## Benedict

This month's Home Cinema Choice is carrying a similar story with quotes from Tom Rogers.

Unfortunately I don't have a copy in front of me, but from memory he is claiming the popularity of FTA TV in the UK, together with growing interest in HD is what is making them look at the UK market more seriously again.

The article also acknowldges the fact that TiVo sill provides a service to a small number of legacy UK customers, but speculates that since a significant number of UK Series 1 subscriptions were lifetime, provision of this service may no longer be cost effective for TiVo.


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## tenwiseman

> The article also acknowldges the fact that TiVo sill provides a service to a small number of legacy UK customers, but speculates that since a significant number of UK Series 1 subscriptions were lifetime, provision of this service may no longer be cost effective for TiVo.


The above is probably just speculation from a source other than TiVo.

A lot of journo's that work for technical TV magazines have a bias to Sky due to the ritual back scratching they give each other. Upset Sky by publishing something totally complementary about a competitor and the author can say goodbye to the freebie subscriptions, complementary drinks evenings and technical headsup.


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## TCM2007

I'm Publishing Director of Home Cinema Choice. If there are free subs to be had, where are mine? Until recently I was paying £72 a month! No free drinks either. And you'd be surprised how little advance notice we get on new tech.

Said "speculation":



> There are still a few thousand legacy users in the UK. Maintaining these is a costly exercise, partly because many were sold with a "lifetime subscription" instead of the usual £10/month payment, and thus aren't generating any more revenue


Pretty uncontroversial I'd have thought. Surely no-one thinks that the UK operation is profitable?


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## cleudo

> Tivo is not going to re-enter the UK in anyway other then on a lockeddown freeview basis.
> I watch sky, for 100% of my non downloaded tv. While it would be good news for tivo in general to enter into the UK, without sky access, prety pointless to me (sadly).


Freesat HD seems quite exciting. A relaunched TiVo with built-in Freesat HD would work for me big time. The old £10 a month isn't ever going to work again, so they're going to have to make their money from the platform via advertising.


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## iankb

gazter said:


> I watch sky, for 100% of my non downloaded tv. While it would be good news for tivo in general to enter into the UK, without sky access, prety pointless to me (sadly).


I was 100% Sky, until they brought-in the pin-entry on early-evening premier films; whereupon I cancelled my sub.

I found it suprisingly-easy to switch to FreeView, given that I now have multiple tuners - in my case, with Vista MCE, and can download the occasional TV program from the internet. Maybe more difficult if you like your football but, not only easier than expected, but amazingly satisfying - not giving any money to Sky. 

To me, multiple tuners are a must, since with the reduced number of channels of FreeView, conflicts become a little more irritating. I would be expecting to switch to FreeSat within the next year or so, to get access to HD.

Also, I find the upscaling of Vista MCE with my superb Samsung 6-series TV to make HD tuners less desirable than expected.


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## sfalvey

This doesn't sound any different from the Q&A session with Rogers from the WSJ all this digital thing back in May.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6330735#post6330735

Original source http://d6.allthingsd.com/20080529/rogers/


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## TCM2007

tenwiseman said:


> A lot of journo's that work for technical TV magazines have a bias to Sky due to the ritual back scratching they give each other. Upset Sky by publishing something totally complementary about a competitor and the author can say goodbye to the freebie subscriptions, complementary drinks evenings and technical headsup.


Some backscratching.


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## tenwiseman

Yup, Sky conning the elderly that their service is the way to go digital... The writer in that accusation is probably *not* a sky tethered journalist (which is good  )



tenwiseman said:


> A lot of journo's that work for technical TV magazines have a bias to Sky due to the ritual back scratching they give each other. Upset Sky by publishing something totally complementary about a competitor and the author can say goodbye to the freebie subscriptions, complementary drinks evenings and technical headsup


OK, perhaps what I wrote applied some time ago when Sky *were* doleing out subs - I know a few writing folk who have had their "incentive". It could be that policy and times that have changed - but the drinks flow - you've missed out. I worked a short while in NI print to electronic advertising and have even been nicely blotto there on a few occasions. 



TCM2007 said:


> Pretty uncontroversial I'd have thought. Surely no-one thinks that the UK operation is profitable?


Anyway in regard to the quote, it's in Sky's interest now to highlight the "expensive to run" state of TiVo series 1 lifetime subs in order to draw punters onto their inferior Sky+ system rather than having them purchase TiVo boxes on the secondhand market. Doesn't matter if it is actually proven profitable or not. Sky just want to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt.

I reckon they still see the small numbers of us TiVo users as a threat - and even more so if a new freeview or freesat TiVo launches without a subscription, which no doubt most of us would flock to.

The satire magazine 'Private Eye' has a long running spot berating News International product placements and intentionally twisted articles put together by 'staff' writers. Playing away and being critical of Sky (instead of promoting them) is not likely to find the journalist back inside that fold again or receiving incentives. So sometimes snippets of bias leaks out...


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## Phileeny

I got my TiVo on the first day from currys before they had them on the shelf.
been updated with HDD and cards etc.
I have used it every day.
I still pay £10 per month.

I have skyhd.

I have freeview via tv and dvd hdd recorder.

WHEN TiVo bring the new box to the uk it should have:-
Freeview twin tuner
FreesatHD twin tuner
DVD recorder

I will buy one even with subscription.
I will buy one even without the tuners I want
I will buy one even without DVD

I will buy one... it's new, it's got to be better


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## AMc

The alternative option about the TV and gadget press showing a bias in favour of Sky (which I believe they do) is that in many respects Sky's offering is superior to Freesat, Freeview and cable: more channels, more HD, supported twin recording boxes, PC and PSP playback of programming, remote programming by SMS... and LOTS OF SPORT. If you are a football fan and a gadget enthusiast then its fairly likely you'll see Sky's offering as the leader.

Now you and I may know that many of these things can be achieved by cheaper and often more flexible means but its hard to argue that Sky don't have an attention grabbing offering, esp if you're a sports nut.


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## iankb

I think that a fundamental requirement of a PVR is that it should totally-replace live viewing, and not just be an add-on. Then you can watch everything from your 'personal channel'; selected according to your available viewing window, and your current mood. And, if you decide to wait until all episodes of a multi-part drama are broadcast before starting to watch it, you have that choice.

For that reason, multiple tuners are a must, since operating separate single-tuner PVR's with separate EPGs is nothing like as easy or accurate to control as a single EPG that has multiple tuners available to it. Vista MCE has extremely-good handling of conflict-control with multiple tuners, which is very easy to adjust on a conflict-by-conflict basis. Also, it will still show programmes that it isn't going to record in the 'To Do' list, so that you can double-check and adjust as necessary.


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## TCM2007

Wish MCE had a "show me just the clashes" option. You can scroll through the TDL looking for the error icon, which is workable but untidy.


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## cleudo

So annoying when this thread gets updated - gets me all excited and I fall for it.

Can someone stick a "perhaps" and a question mark in the title?????


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## iankb

TCM2007 said:


> Wish MCE had a "show me just the clashes" option. You can scroll through the TDL looking for the error icon, which is workable but untidy.


It would also be nice if you could browse past recordings as well as future episodes when sorting out what to record within a series.

I find the current version of Vista MCE to have much more usable functionality than a Series 1 TiVo. I would love to know whether TiVo have sat back on their laurels, or whether they have used the last seven or eight years to enhance their functionality, and to jump well-ahead of MCE; multiple tuners being a must for that.


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## ZeoTiVo

cleudo said:


> So annoying when this thread gets updated - gets me all excited and I fall for it.
> 
> Can someone stick a "perhaps" and a question mark in the title?????


No need for the question mark anymore
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7627834#post7627834

and the link TiVoStephen put in his post
http://tivo.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=419


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## cwaring

To quote The Kaiser Chief, Lily Allen, Mark Ronson AND Victor Meldrew...

"OH MY GOD I CAN'T BELIVE IT!"



Best news I've heard all year!!


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## Glen

good news for you guys! But for those of us with Sky, its gonna be even worse than it was with TiVo not in the UK at all! TiVo will be that much closer, and still out of reach! Really quite disappointed about that!


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## Glen

i suppose it could mean that Sky might do something with TiVo too, or allow a TiVo box to control a sky box in some way to keep market share!


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## kitschcamp

Glen said:


> i suppose it could mean that Sky might do something with TiVo too


No. Not possible. It says quite explicitly the licence is mutually exclusive, ie they're shutting out all other options. Seems they didn't learn from their exclusive Sky deal, doesn't it. *sigh*


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## shabbadoof13

so what will happen to those of us then that are still on the series 1 and happy with them.. Will sky still provide the tv data? are they not going to be able to once this deal comes into place?


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## Glen

Yeah it does. I really hope Sky are kicking themselves now. This wouldn't be happening now if they weren't so bloody selfish.


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## Glen

on a side note it looks like they've re registered the www.tivo.co.uk url! When you go to it it says nothing to see here, yet! And click the United Kingdom button on the international page of TiVo.com takes you to an international annoucement. Looks like they are defo working on the new TiVo UK website already! Its been registered to someone called Philip Plant who is a UK individual


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## martink0646

shabbadoof13 said:


> so what will happen to those of us then that are still on the series 1 and happy with them.. Will sky still provide the tv data? are they not going to be able to once this deal comes into place?


I Second these comments. Can someone, maybe OZSAT, let us know how the guide data is distributed? Do Sky pay tribune for the service and recoup the money from subs, is it all underwritten by TiVo Inc., do TiVo pay Tribune direct as part of a worldwide deal? Who runs the servers or are Sky just Sub contractors which opens the possibility to another party keeping the guide data running?

If it is all down to Sky and their exclusive contract, I don't see what is in it for them to keep running the service when another company (and deadly rival) is recouping all the benefits and I don't see what's in it for Virgin Media to look after the service for a 10 year old box which has nothing to do with them contractually?

Alternatively, if the servers are TiVo's, they receive and keep the revenue and just pay Sky to administer the UK operation through their back office (DD's, call centre etc) then there is a good chance that things will continue.

There is a massive info vacuum here and it would be great if someone could fill in the gaps with facts rather than the (understandable) rampant speculation that is going to follow this news, most of it on this forum probably. Could someone get in touch with TiVoPony who was so helpfull during the Suggestions issue? I bet that Pete77 will be back here today with either a conspiracy theory, telling us how bad big business is and/or furnishing us with the e-mail addresses of all the senior people at TiVo Inc. along with the appropriate Saynoto0870 furnished numbers!!

I am really happy that TiVo are linking with Virgin except for one tiny issue. In my area Virgin is only available in analogue form with no plans to upgrade to Digital even though I believe it is a minimal cost due to the cables being already in the ground and probably just a couple of new cards required at the head end and maybe some minor upgrade work in the streetside cabs. Currently and for the forseeable future I have no chance of receiving the service.

Martin


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## shabbadoof13

maybe someone will come out with a little hack so that a network tivo can go elsewhere to get its guide data..


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## Glen

martink0646 said:


> I Second these comments. Can someone, maybe OZSAT, let us know how the guide data is distributed? Do Sky pay tribune for the service and recoup the money from subs, is it all underwritten by TiVo Inc., do TiVo pay Tribune direct as part of a worldwide deal? Who runs the servers or are Sky just Sub contractors which opens the possibility to another party keeping the guide data running?
> 
> If it is all down to Sky and their exclusive contract, I don't see what is in it for them to keep running the service when another company (and deadly rival) is recouping all the benefits and I don't see what's in it for Virgin Media to look after the service for a 10 year old box which has nothing to do with them contractually?
> 
> Alternatively, if the servers are TiVo's, they receive and keep the revenue and just pay Sky to administer the UK operation through their back office (DD's, call centre etc) then there is a good chance that things will continue.
> 
> There is a massive info vacuum here and it would be great if someone could fill in the gaps with facts rather than the (understandable) rampant speculation that is going to follow this news, most of it on this forum probably. Could someone get in touch with TiVoPony who was so helpfull during the Suggestions issue? I bet that Pete77 will be back here today with either a conspiracy theory, telling us how bad big business is and/or furnishing us with the e-mail addresses of all the senior people at TiVo Inc. along with the appropriate Saynoto0870 furnished numbers!!
> 
> I am really happy that TiVo are linking with Virgin except for one tiny issue. In my area Virgin is only available in analogue form with no plans to upgrade to Digital even though I believe it is a minimal cost due to the cables being already in the ground and probably just a couple of new cards required at the head end and maybe some minor upgrade work in the streetside cabs. Currently and for the forseeable future I have no chance of receiving the service.
> 
> Martin


I just rang Virgin to see if they would expanding their areas. They said they have no plans to change the network anywhere and that is for the forseeable!


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## deesee

Really good news for me, i have tivo, sky, and virgin, was thinking of dumping sky next year anyway, this has made my mind up


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## GarySargent

Guide data in series 1 boxes is nothing to do with Sky. TiVo supply this to end users, and it is contracted out to a third party.

The only involvement Sky have in TiVo UK is customer support. I'd guess that will shift to Virgin.


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## iankb

Glen said:


> on a side note it looks like they've re registered the www.tivo.co.uk url! ... Its been registered to someone called Philip Plant who is a UK individual


Philip Plant had registered it at least a couple of years ago. I always assumed that he was a cybersquatter that grabbed it when it was free, but maybe not.


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## Pete77

Benedict said:


> The article also acknowldges the fact that TiVo sill provides a service to a small number of legacy UK customers, but speculates that since a significant number of UK Series 1 subscriptions were lifetime, provision of this service may no longer be cost effective for TiVo.


If Tivo are now re-launching their service in the UK then the very last thing that they can possibly afford to do is to axe support for the old UK Tivo S1 service as there will be no upgrade path for Sky or Freeview customers (especially not those who don't live in a Virgin Cable area) and they don't want to have lots of unhappy longstanding UK Tivo customers already familiar with the Tivo product telling potential V+ Tivo buyers that Tivo is not a company that can be trusted.

As the post from our newly risen from the grave head forum moderator GarySargent clarifies Sky have nothing at all to do with the ongoing UK Tivo data service and their only involvement is fielding customer support calls and setting up payment details. They do not provide the underlying server platform that runs the actual Tivo data service or have anything to do with the data supply contract from Tribune. I assume that Sky's existing support role for Tivo S1 customers could very easily be and may very well be switched across to Virgin in due course. After all that gives them a new potential source of customers and sales opportunities for the new Virgin based Tivo service.

The continuing costs of suporting legacy Tivo S1 customers are now likely to go down since the existing data contract with Tribune for the UK will now have a much profitable revenue payback in terms of all the new Virgin Tivo customers who will now also be using and paying for that EPG.


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## iankb

GarySargent said:


> Guide data in series 1 boxes is nothing to do with Sky. TiVo supply this to end users, and it is contracted out to a third party.
> 
> The only involvement Sky have in TiVo UK is customer support. I'd guess that will shift to Virgin.


Whoa! Who woke you up. 

Gary, nice to see you're still around.


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## Pete77

iankb said:


> Philip Plant had registered it at least a couple of years ago. I always assumed that he was a cybersquatter that grabbed it when it was free, but maybe not.


It looks he is a cybersquatter who is potentially likely to shortly face eviction.


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## mikerr

iankb said:


> Philip Plant had registered it at least a couple of years ago.


Yeah, tried to buy it from him ... but he wanted way too much money IMO.



Pete77 said:


> It looks he is a cybersquatter who is potentially likely to shortly face eviction.


Not really, TiVO used uk.tivo.com in all its links and literature.

This announcement probably explains why uk.tivo.com disappeared a few days ago too,
it now just redirects to the main tivo.com page.

Another snippet from TiVo is that the VM TiVo will be more like the RCN TiVo than the (crippled) comcast TiVo:

http://www.rcn.com/j/tivo?bid=banner--all--TiVo--2009-08-03--TiVo


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## Glen

hmm, not so sure. It also says that it was last modified at the beginning of November.


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## martink0646

martink0646 said:


> I bet that Pete77 will be back here today with either a conspiracy theory, telling us how bad big business is and/or furnishing us with the e-mail addresses of all the senior people at TiVo Inc. along with the appropriate Saynoto0870 furnished numbers!!


I suppose it didn't take a rocket scientist to be right on that one With the news of a new TiVo and Gary's re-emergence all we need now is Stuart (TCM2007) and Pete77 to start flaming and it'll feel like we are in a time warp!

Martin


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## Pete77

martink0646 said:


> With the news of a new TiVo and Gary's re-emergence all we need now is Stuart (TCM2007) and Pete77 to start flaming and it'll feel like we are in a time warp!


Its not so long since I and TCM2007 last did that but it really does seem like a time warp to see a new post in the forum from Gary.:up:


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## iankb

mikerr said:


> TiVO used uk.tivo.com in all its links and literature.


Companies that trade worldwide often use sub-domains nowadays.

e.g. *uk.tivo.com* or *www.tivo.com/uk/*

It's too difficult to get all of the different country-based domains, especially with the number of money-grabbing cybersquatters around.


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## GarySargent

Originally there was a cybersquatter on tivo.co.uk.

I bought it off that person - TiVo asked me to as they felt there was more chance of it happening that way, and the cybersquatter wouldn't demand large sums of money.

This went through and I transferred the domain from my name to TiVo's.

Not sure what has happened subsequent to that. Maybe another squatter has it if TiVo let it lapse.


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## scgf

I'm positively delirious! I loved my series 1 TiVo and retired it to move to SkyHD. A couple of months ago I ditched Sky and moved to Virgin Media V+ - I am very impressed with their service as it is, let alone with TiVo software on their boxes! 

Sky had better be really worried - VM's catchup service is extraordinarily good and is something Sky really couldn't do given their method of delivery - unless they used broadband to deliver the catchup streams. With a TiVo front end the VM service is going to be amazing!

I am toying with the idea of moving house. Now it will HAVE to be in a VM area. Number one on my criteria list!!


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## Pete77

GarySargent said:


> Not sure what has happened subsequent to that. Maybe another squatter has it if TiVo let it lapse.


Its still listed as being registered to Philip Plant and the site currently points to a holding page with Digit Networks Ltd.



> Domain name:
> tivo.co.uk
> 
> *Registrant:
> Philip Plant*
> 
> Registrant type:
> UK Individual
> 
> Registrant's address:
> The registrant is a non-trading individual who has opte
> d to have their
> address omitted from the WHOIS service.
> 
> Registrar:
> Heart Internet Ltd t/a Heart Internet [Tag = HEARTINTER
> NET]
> URL: http://www.heartinternet.co.uk
> 
> Relevant dates:
> Registered on: 24-Sep-2007
> Renewal date: 24-Sep-2011
> Last updated: 02-Nov-2009
> 
> Registration status:
> Registered until renewal date.
> 
> Name servers:
> ns.mainnameserver.com
> ns2.mainnameserver.com
> 
> WHOIS lookup made at 14:05:39 25-Nov-2009
> 
> --
> This WHOIS information is provided for free by Nominet UK the c
> entral registry
> for .uk domain names. This information and the .uk WHOIS are:
> 
> Copyright Nominet UK 1996 - 2009.


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## Glen

I could move to Virgin media! They appear to be cheaper for me than Sky currently is, but i dont live in a Virgin Cable area which is bloody typical! Not only that but there is no Sky1 HD on virgin and i watch that a lot on Sky. Is there anyway to find out where the closest virgin media area is, because despite them saying they arent planning to expand, i've seen quotes from them saying they are thinking of expanding into areas adjacent to Virgin coverage as it would be easier.


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## browellm

scgf said:


> I'm positively delirious! I loved my series 1 TiVo and retired it to move to SkyHD. A couple of months ago I ditched Sky and moved to Virgin Media V+ - I am very impressed with their service as it is, let alone with TiVo software on their boxes!
> 
> Sky had better be really worried - VM's catchup service is extraordinarily good and is something Sky really couldn't do given their method of delivery - unless they used broadband to deliver the catchup streams. With a TiVo front end the VM service is going to be amazing!
> 
> I am toying with the idea of moving house. Now it will HAVE to be in a VM area. Number one on my criteria list!!


This!

I dida small sex-wee when I saw the story on The Register. Moved to VM for my TV about 3 months ago. Everything's good now, except the interface/search. This is going to be awesome.


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## cwaring

browellm said:


> I dida small ....


TOO MUCH INFORMATION!!!:down:


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## mikerr

scgf said:


> I am toying with the idea of moving house. Now it will HAVE to be in a VM area. Number one on my criteria list!!


LOL ! New poll.. would you move house in order to get TiVo ?


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## cyril

Darn! I'm going to have to move house (at a cost of approx 100k) or pay Virgin to install cable in my road! 

Virgin Media tie-up just mentioned on Bloomberg TV.


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## JudyB

Pete77 said:


> It looks he is a cybersquatter who is potentially likely to shortly face eviction.


It's more likely that he will get paid by TiVo or Virgin for the domain. Under the Nominet rules someone would have to prove both that they had a right to the name (fairly straightforward for TiVo) and that this is an "abusive" registration. In general I don't think that buying the name on the off-chance of making money is normally considered abusive.
If anyone wants the full gory details take a look here.


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## katman

So near but yet so far 

Theoretically I live in a cabled area yet I cant get cable. My house is in a small square behind a main road. The four roads that surround us ARE cabled. The cable is within 30 metres of my house yet they didnt come down my road so therefore I am unable to get it.


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## cyril

katman said:


> So near but yet so far
> 
> Theoretically I live in a cabled area yet I cant get cable. My house is in a small square behind a main road. The four roads that surround us ARE cabled. The cable is within 30 metres of my house yet they didnt come down my road so therefore I am unable to get it.


I'm guessing (wildly) it will cost about £200 to £400 per metre (or double that in London) to dig up the road and another £50 per metre for the cables. If you can get 25 households around you to split the cost 50/50 with Virgin they might do it.

I think I'm 1km from a Virgin area, but I think I might be able to get Virgin to pay for 99% of the roughly £1m cost as there are a lot of potential customers they could get in those roads!


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## MarkE19

katman said:


> So near but yet so far
> 
> Theoretically I live in a cabled area yet I cant get cable. My house is in a small square behind a main road. The four roads that surround us ARE cabled. The cable is within 30 metres of my house yet they didnt come down my road so therefore I am unable to get it.


It's even worse than that for me. I have a VM point directly outside my building, but as I live in a small block of flats Virgin wont install into the block. On their web site the houses to both the left and right of the block are listed, but the block itself simply doesn't exist 

Mark.


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## cyril

MarkE19 said:


> It's even worse than that for me. I have a VM point directly outside my building, but as I live in a small block of flats Virgin wont install into the block. On their web site the houses to both the left and right of the block are listed, but the block itself simply doesn't exist
> 
> Mark.


Optic fibre is about £50 a metre to install so you could connect it up yourself if your neighbour doesn't mind


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## mrtickle

This is really great news.

And with a whole wodge of new users, surely using the same guide data that we get now, it'll mean errors are spotted, report and corrected sooner and more often than now, so we'll gain indirectly too.

I'm off to try and catch up with a few years' worth of old posts now


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## cwaring

My parents are in a simiar position to a couple of posters in that they cannot currently get VM services, but they are available a short way away. However, I have managed to talk VM into routing services to their home.

I didn't use this exact route, but it might help some of you.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1152653


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## TCM2007

Pete77 said:


> Its not so long since I and TCM2007 last did that


Oh yes it is!


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## Pete77

TCM2007 said:


> Oh yes it is!


Its not nearly as long as it is since the date on which Gary S last made a post in this forum.


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## ericd121

Glen said:


> I could move to Virgin media!...i dont live in a Virgin Cable area...Is there anyway to find out where the closest virgin media area is...


I, too, would welcome a map, or preferably, a searchable (by postcode) database of areas served by Virgin Media's digital cable service.

*[Edit]* Carl, for some reason, I believe that the old Telewest Cable network was 'better' than the old NTL Cable network.

Am I right to think that, and do you, or anyone else know if this is still the case?


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## MarkE19

ericd121 said:


> I, too, would welcome a map, or preferably, a searchable (by postcode) database of areas served by Virgin Media's digital cable service.


Stick your postcode in Here and it will tell you what VM services are available to you.

Mark.


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## cwaring

ericd121 said:


> *[Edit]* Carl, for some reason, I believe that the old Telewest Cable network was 'better' than the old NTL Cable network.


I will try and find a complete VM coverage map if someone will let me have one


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## Sneals2000

cyril said:


> Optic fibre is about £50 a metre to install so you could connect it up yourself if your neighbour doesn't mind


Aren't Virgin FTC (Fibre to Cabinet) rather than FTH (Fibre to Home) still? The final leg from the cabinet is still coax isn't it - and your neighbour would have coax? However I'm not sure how granular the connections are these days in terms of back channel and data connectivity. (You can obviously share the TV and VOD stuff on a single drop across multiple receivers - but I'm not sure how many broadband connections are supported by a single drop)


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## martink0646

Sneals2000 said:


> Aren't Virgin FTC (Fibre to Cabinet) rather than FTH (Fibre to Home) still? The final leg from the cabinet is still coax isn't it - and your neighbour would have coax? However I'm not sure how granular the connections are these days in terms of back channel and data connectivity. (You can obviously share the TV and VOD stuff on a single drop across multiple receivers - but I'm not sure how many broadband connections are supported by a single drop)


As far as I'm aware (it was definitely the case around 6/7 years ago and they have made no major investments in their network since then), VM are FTTK (Fibre to the Kerb) and definitely not FTTH (Fibre to the Home). I used to be a VM customer, when they were NTL, and we bought a home on a new estate. We were the first people to move in and at first we had blistering internet speeds (2MB in 2001) for those days. After about a year when the development was finished and all sold, the extra numbers dragged the speed down so much that it was almost pointless surfing in the early evening. I become a daytime and midnight surfer. At that time it was 1 fibre to the streetside, of which their was one per street. You just got lucky as to how many people signed up. The more affluent the area the slower your speed

Martin


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## Moe UK

It is not even fibre to the cabinet, it is fibre to the local neighbourhood node that can service several hundred homes. And yes it does depend on where you live, but also what the original franchise area was like. It is not as simple as ex Telewest or ex NTL as these were franchises bought from other cable companies.

Where I live we had digital cable from about 2001 but only got broadband a few years latter and interactive and VOD only after the Virgin rebrand. I only moved to their BB last year and it is always blistering fast. I do know that they to update UBR when areas have constant high utilisation but it is a long process.

With the move to IPTV which will help to solve the bandwidth issues, the switch off of the analogue network in April and the migration of the 20MB customers to DOCIS3 should make more bandwidth available for broadband.

The cable companies have been run into the ground into the this country and it didn't help with having so many different franchises, in the short time since the Telewest/ntl merger and Virgin rebranding cable has improved dramatically. They are in the process of harmonising channels and services, bringing all the areas they can up to scratch. 

There are good times ahead for cable and maybe the new IPTV delivery along with what I hope is a major improvement with the GUI with Tivo cable may finally be able to start increasing their subscriber numbers so that money can be invested back into the network and help to start paying back the huge debt that they still have form when all the cable was originally laid.


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## Tim L

Have only just heard this news and am frankly amazed. I didn't think it would ever happen!


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## cwaring

I bet you're always the last to arrive a party, too


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## TiVoPony

shabbadoof13 said:


> so what will happen to those of us then that are still on the series 1 and happy with them.. Will sky still provide the tv data? are they not going to be able to once this deal comes into place?


No implications that I'm aware of for those Series1 boxes. The data is actually served from TiVo, not from Sky.

Pony


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## cwaring

TiVoPony said:


> The data is actually served from TiVo, not from Sky.


I thought so.


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## martink0646

TiVoPony said:


> No implications that I'm aware of for those Series1 boxes. The data is actually served from TiVo, not from Sky.
> 
> Pony


Thanks TiVoPony. That's a relief!!

Martin


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## Pete77

TiVoPony said:


> No implications that I'm aware of for those Series1 boxes. The data is actually served from TiVo, not from Sky.


Bob,

Its certainly good to have that official confirmation on on the matter from Tivo HQ and so far as I can see the new developments with Virgin simply provide far more reasons than existed before for Tivo to continue to provide service to the earlier Series 1 units since the UK data contract with Tribune becomes potentially cheaper per unit in terms of the Series 1 machines. Of course its not yet clear where any EPG data will come from for the Virgin service but assuming one of the key aspects of it is better metadata and up to three weeks of upcoming programs in the EPG then the involvement of Tribune would still seem likely.

The only possible likely change I could see is that in due course the UK telephone support desk run by Sky for the S1 UK Tivo units might be relocated over to personnel at Virgin, as when and Virgin's team and helpdesk for the new Virgin Tivo machines is open for business. One of the main reasons for changing the helpdesk location would surely be that there is a great opportunity for selling any of these S1 Tivo owners who live in a Virgin cable area a new Virgin Tivo PVR.:up:

Of couse may be one day the new Virgin Tivo will be available throughout the UK if Virgin also manage to figure out a way to ever provide their television service nationwide in all those areas without Virgin Cable access over the main BT Wholesale owned ADSL2+ broadband network. However as I understand it quite a lot more upgrading of the backbone of that network is needed before it can properly cope with widespread live streaming of HD television programs..........


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## Tim L

cwaring said:


> I bet you're always the last to arrive a party, too


Fashionably late.


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## Sneals2000

Pete77 said:


> Of couse may be one day the new Virgin Tivo will be available throughout the UK if Virgin also manage to figure out a way to ever provide their television service nationwide in all those areas without Virgin Cable access over the main BT Wholesale owned ADSL2+ broadband network. However as I understand it quite a lot more upgrading of the backbone of that network is needed before it can properly cope with widespread live streaming of HD television programs..........


Is ADSL2+ really feasible for broadcast HD distribution? BBC HD has recently dropped from 16Mbs to 9.7Mbs (with new cutting-edge H264 encoders - though there have been complaints about a drop in picture quality)

That could be feasibly distributed via some ADSL2+ connections - but if you offer multiroom via a single connection - won't you choke if you try and stream 2 or 3 10Mbs HD streams simultaneously over ADSL2+? Doesn't it still max out at around 24Mbs - and that is best-case, with many getting a lot less than that if they are further from the exchange?

You would also presumably lose your nice fast internet connection if you were watching HD as well?!


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## kitschcamp

Here in Sweden SD can be delivered over ADSL2+, but not HD.

If you sign up for TV over ADSL, you pay for a 24Mbps connection, but only ever get 8-12 Mbps, as the rest is reserved for TV... Even when you aren't watching it.


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## mikerr

BT are currently trialling 40Mbps and 100Mbps, though the latter is fibre I think.

I was going to mention I _already _get 50Mbps - but that's on cable, not ADSL, so I'll get me coat


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## kitschcamp

I'm not complaining, I get a steady 21-22Mbps despite living out in the countryside, 20 miles or so from the nearest town.


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## Pete77

Sneals2000 said:


> BBC HD has recently dropped from 16Mbs to 9.7Mbs (with new cutting-edge H264 encoders - though there have been complaints about a drop in picture quality)


So the next new encoder standard will no doubt drop the required connection speed to 5.5Mbps and then Bob's Your Uncle............

Also as has been highlighted BT is working on Fibre To the Cabinet which may well provide the required levels of broadband speed to the 90% of UK homes alluded to by the gentleman from Virgin who posted earlier in this thread.

I must say that his timescale of Virgin getting to 90% of UK homes by the end of next year does seem more than a touch optimistic though, even allowing for all of the above.


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## Millimole

Moe UK said:


> <snip> only after the Virgin rebrand. I only moved to their BB last year and it is always blistering fast. I do know that they to update UBR when areas have constant high utilisation but it is a long process.
> 
> <snip>.


While technically Virgin may have improved the service; have they upped the previously (NTL) dire levels of customer service? I vowed never, ever to touch cable again after I ditched NTL's phone service. I may be persuaded to change my mind.


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## mike0151

I only heard about the planned return of TiVo to the UK this evening when my friend phoned me from Spain.

Guess who moved house 3 weeks ago to a digital cable enabled area and had my VM package installed on the 20th Nov.? WooHoo.

For the moment, I need to experiment and see if one of my TiVo boxes can directly control my VM Samsung stb (which seems to be much faster than I had been led to believe that cable boxes were).


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## cwaring

Well I personally haven't had any problem with VM in my xNTL region since joining them in January of 2007 but then again I haven't had much reason to call them


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## Ovit-UK

Tis indeed great news and just imagine how good a V+ box would be if it had a Tivo brain. :up:


No doubt we're all gonna be speculating optimistically in the coming months as to what options we will have but does anyone know . . . . 

In America, do they have a lifetime sub the same as our Series One machines? and if so what happens when the trade up to a new machine, does the sub transfer up or do they have to purchase a new sub?

Is it gonna be likely that those of us currently using our Tivo's that also have Virgin boxes will be "asked to switch/offered" a new hybrid box to replace our Thomson S1 or do you think they would be happy to let our S1 boxes carry on?



Ovit


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## Moe UK

Millimole said:


> While technically Virgin may have improved the service; have they upped the previously (NTL) dire levels of customer service? I vowed never, ever to touch cable again after I ditched NTL's phone service. I may be persuaded to change my mind.


Depends I have heard some horror storied over on Digital Spy, but then again I have had cable since 1997 and only had to call a few times, there was a period one year where I had to have a STB replaced three times but found the whole process quite easy, they even came back out the same day to replace one of the boxes.

All these companies are the same though, all is well till you have to speak to CS, BT, Virgin, Sky, the banks, mobile companies. Just depends who you get on other other end of the phone.


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## Tim L

Ovit-UK said:


> In America, do they have a lifetime sub the same as our Series One machines? and if so what happens when the trade up to a new machine, does the sub transfer up or do they have to purchase a new sub?
> 
> Is it gonna be likely that those of us currently using our Tivo's that also have Virgin boxes will be "asked to switch/offered" a new hybrid box to replace our Thomson S1 or do you think they would be happy to let our S1 boxes carry on?


Lifetime subs are for the lifetime of the box, ie if you get a new box, you need a new sub. They're not transferable.

It looks likely that the existing S1 service will continue as it is - all Tivo have to do is keep providing guide data.


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## JonMace

depends on how its done currently all equipment is owned by Virgin, so you will not be buying a box, also you will not pay Tivo a sub 9either life time or monthly) the cost will be built into your sub with Virgin

I very much doubt that the new software will be hackable, Virgin have enough problems with hackers already and are heavily investing to stop the hacking.

But who knows maybe they will go the European / US way open the CAM and let people buy their own equipment


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## Tim L

JonMace said:


> I very much doubt that the new software will be hackable, Virgin have enough problems with hackers already and are heavily investing to stop the hacking.


I doubt this too - I just hope that the software they roll out can be accessed via the web. IIRC US S3 boxes can, can't they? That's the only thing I'd _really_ miss from my hacked Tivo.


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## Sneals2000

JonMace said:


> But who knows maybe they will go the European / US way open the CAM and let people buy their own equipment


Unlikely - letting users 'roll their own' is increasingly unpopular as it has implications for VOD, Interactive, EPG etc. and has huge implications when it comes to customer support.

It also has increasing issues in rights terms - though possibly the CI+ CAM upgrade (that uses an HDCP-like encryption from the CAM to the receiver to ensure no unencrypted content is available outside the receiver) may help with this.

Also - increasingly - encryption providers are much happier with sealed unit solutions than separate modules (that are easier to reverse engineer etc.)


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## Major dude

Millimole said:


> While technically Virgin may have improved the service; have they upped the previously (NTL) dire levels of customer service? I vowed never, ever to touch cable again after I ditched NTL's phone service. I may be persuaded to change my mind.


I recently had a new cable modem installed and it was all arranged without a hitch. Also when the system crashed a few months ago in my area they quickly put a message on the advice line and sorted it within an hour.

So I reckon they have improved and I would rate their broadband service as amongst the best.


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## arturus

cleudo said:


> Freesat HD seems quite exciting. A relaunched TiVo with built-in Freesat HD would work for me big time. The old £10 a month isn't ever going to work again, so they're going to have to make their money from the platform via advertising.


I've just bought an eyeTV (freesat) satellite tuner to work with my desktop Mac - works brilliantly and the version 3 software is 'almost' as good as my Tivo. BBC HD is very good too. It's really just a bit different to the way Tivo works. I'm now thinking of getting a second eyeTV to work with the Mac Mini sitting under my TV, which means I may retire my Tivo (and Sky freesat box) very soon.


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## Major dude

arturus said:


> I've just bought an eyeTV (freesat) satellite tuner to work with my desktop Mac - works brilliantly and the version 3 software is 'almost' as good as my Tivo. BBC HD is very good too. It's really just a bit different to the way Tivo works. I'm now thinking of getting a second eyeTV to work with the Mac Mini sitting under my TV, which means I may retire my Tivo (and Sky freesat box) very soon.


Sorry but I cannot agree with you, there is no way in which EyeSAT even with v3 software is 'almost' as good as a TiVo. I have used both this and an Humax Freesat HD and have used SkyHD in the past and nothing compares with TiVo.

For example have you made a Eye TV recording, converted it for viewing on Apple TV and its lost sync or had it started dropping out and stuttering on you, so you have to convert it again - how annoying is that? There is no 30 minute buffer to stitch on if you miss record starts, the search function is less easy to use as are the smartguides, but mainly I use a TV to watch TV not my Apple imac or macbook computer and there always be an interface problem created for me by this fact even with streaming content over a wireless network.


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## Sneals2000

Yep - eyeTV 3 is fine for watching TV on a laptop in a hotel room or similar - but I couldn't see it as a main TV platform.

However Windows Media Center in Windows 7 is pretty good. It's not Tivo - but the picture quality is massively better than a Series 1 - particularly in HD!


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## iankb

Sneals2000 said:


> However Windows Media Center in Windows 7 is pretty good. It's not Tivo - but the picture quality is massively better than a Series 1 - particularly in HD!


Personally, I find a multiple-tuner Windows 7 MCE setup with networked extenders to be significantly better than one or more single-tuner Series 1 TiVo with video extenders. However, I can't compare it with a Series 3 or 4 TiVo, since I haven't seen one.

I can't think what MCE doesn't have when compared to a TiVo, except the TiVo's obvious simplicity of operation, which does seem to ease acceptance by other members of the family.

The real problem with the TiVo has always been expansion. I can use at least four mixed satellite and terrestrial tuners with Media Centre and add terabytes of diskspace (including a RAID mirror or network drive), simply by plugging the hardware in.

All the tuners and conflict resolution will work off the same EPG, and anybody with their own extender can independently watch their own programme choice from the shared collection, and at the original broadcast resolution (including HD and DD5.1 sound).

A scheduled programme can be automatically recorded from any programme source (i.e. non-encrypted satellite or terrestrial), from SD or HD channel, from base channel or +1 channel, simply according to conflict resolution and recording preferences.

I can listen to radio, music and/or watch slide shows of my photographs within the same environment.

With a free plug-in, I can watch all of the main broadcasters' web-players (BBC iPlayer, etc) within the same environment.

I can see snapshots for each recording, and can flip between date sort or title sort, including viewing series within folders.

Some of the plug-ins that have been developed can be quite useful. I developed a couple; one for moving/archiving recordings between drives, and another to display live train times at my local railway station beside a playback or live channel window. Unfortunately, Microsoft have started encrypting the guide database in Windows 7, which does limit some development opportunities, and the API has little or no documentation.

I do find the MCE guide data to have a lot of errors (i.e. series episodes treated as standalone recordings), but then so does the TiVo. Having over two terabytes of recording space does help when it records the same programme multiple times.

Recording quality is a definite improvement, not only because of integrated digital tuners, but also because the PC upscales the SD programmes to the resolution of the TV when using an HDMI connection.

Maybe a Series 3 TiVo can do a lot of this and, almost certainly, with a much simpler interface for younger users. However, I can't see a TiVo ever having the same flexibility, unless they bring out a software version that can run on PC hardware.

The main thing that I would like to see change with Media Center is to remove the operating system that sits below Media Center, since I much prefer the lightweight and cheaper concept of a Linux base. However, I can't really see Microsoft ever doing that. It would also be nice if somebody brought out an MCE extender running on a cheap Linux-based Acer Aspire Revo.

While I'm sure that people would find a TiVo solution easier to operate, and be more family-friendly, I strongly disagree with the comments that a TiVo is way ahead of any other PVR solution.


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## jeremy Parsons

Given the price of tivo its the price that has resulted in me getting another tivo despite the limitations of single tuner.

I got a lifetime tivo with cachecard for around £150 , asa result with a new 750Gb green drive in it I have a fully capable low power device.

I have duplictae tivos witht he same season passes in the living room and one in the bedroom.

I have windows MCE (XP version) and yes it is nice , however it require a fully blown PC , (I have the sony viao version with HDMI , yes its good however to get it to work reliably I have to reboot it weekly and also it does from time to time throw a wobbly, while it is quite it does use lots of power and kicks out lots of heat compared to my tivo espicially with the new low power drive.

also the PC is dedicated to just runnig MCE nothing else


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## jeremy Parsons

I must admit the windows 7 version that support usb based DVB card out of the box looks interesting does this make a less flakey MCE edition? does anyone run a dedicated windows 7 MCE system and is it bulletproof like tivo


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## TCM2007

jeremy Parsons said:


> I have windows MCE (XP version) and yes it is nice , however it require a fully blown PC , (I have the sony viao version with HDMI , yes its good however to get it to work reliably I have to reboot it weekly and also it does from time to time throw a wobbly, while it is quite it does use lots of power and kicks out lots of heat compared to my tivo espicially with the new low power drive.


I'm running MCE on a cheap Atom/ION based "nettop" from Acer - about £200 or so. Very low power usage, cheap enough to treat it like a dedicated device - it's gaffer taped to the back of the telly so not even a box to be seen! The Win7 version is significantly better that MCE 2005.


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## phpct

Since losing my TiVo last year I've tried Microsoft Media Center and Humax Freeview PVR alternatives. All are poo compared to TiVo.

I can't wait to get the peanut back in my hand!

Patrick.


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## -MC-

Great news !

From the Tivo press release :

said Tom Rogers, president and CEO of TiVo Inc. "We are very excited about this new distribution relationship with the UK's most advanced pay television provider and are particularly proud to have been selected as Virgin Media's core software partner for its next generation DVR-enabled set top boxes *and its next generation non-DVR set top boxes*"

Wonder what that means ?

Good new though


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## cwaring

I assume it means any STB that VM use from now on.


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## -MC-

Probably Virgin covering all bases, but it seem to imply Tivo will _also_ have their software on set-top boxes that are not DVRs - ie not video recorders


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## mrtickle

I take it to mean that even the non-DVR set-top-boxes will gain the beautiful TiVo interface, or at least a variant of it. "Now playing" can offer links to streamed video on demand titles over the cable network.

Perhaps virgin will be offering the best iPlayer interface possible - the TiVo UI . Let's how there is plenty of TiVo branding visible on whatever they do - eg TiVo guy animations on startup etc.


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## -MC-

Lets hope we get :

Online Scheduling - http://www.tivo.com/whatistivo/dvr-to-go/index.html

and

Tivo Mobile - http://www.tivo.com/whatistivo/dvr-to-go/tivo-mobile/index.html


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## pgogborn

From the TiVo Inc. F3Q10 (Qtr End 10/31/2009) Earnings Call Transcript


> *Tom Rogers CEO:*...we will be the exclusive middleware and user interface on next generation boxes. Second, there are substantial minimum commitments associated with this deal. Third, TiVo will be supplying the complete software stack on the Virgin set-top-boxes, which we believe is a more efficient approach to development than some of the more cumbersome architectures used by other operators and keeps with our strategy to avoid engagements that could potentially tie us up in lengthy development projects without near-term deployment opportunity.
> 
> Lastly, this deal also marks the first time TiVo will be providing the interface, not just for DVR platforms, but for traditional, next generation set-top boxes without DVR capability as well. This expanded role further underscores the ongoing evolution of TiVo's technology from the best DVR interface, to the world's leading provider of software for advanced television services. Proceed to unified linear broadband and on-demand content.
> ...
> [Virgin's] current expectation is to get the product out sometime by the end of 2010. There are technology revenue aspects of the development work here as there are with most of our mass distribution undertakings.
> 
> Going forward once deployment occurs there are per sub per month revenue aspects of the deal. We arent disclosing the term of the deal, but it is a multi-year arrangement that provides a very substantial commitment from us to them and them to us over a meaningful period of time.
> 
> I would say that it is as the press release indicated, an exclusive arrangement, so their next generation boxes TiVo will be the exclusive user interface and middleware provider, and I think key to understanding this opportunity of linear and broadband and an advanced television service delivery in the UK market is what a unique offering that Virgin has through the BBC on-demand content. The on-demand content of the BBC, which Sky for technological reasons does not offer is really something that has proved popular there and the kind of focus on on-demand delivery that our product can have can really make that pop.
> 
> ...the deal is one that gives us per-sub fees and recurring per-sub fees and we anticipate that there will be a significant opportunity for them to penetrate the market once this offering is available.


This transcript is attributed to Seeking Alpha who claim fair use is limited to 400 words - for more remarks from the earnings call on the Virgin relationship >
http://seekingalpha.com/article/175...nd-10-31-2009-earnings-call-transcript?page=1


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