# 5 years on. Why can't I find anything better?



## peteoheat (Oct 28, 2002)

I've had my TiVO for about 5 years now and I'm in the process of upgrading my AV kit completely. I've just replaced my old CRT with a nice shiny new FullHD LCD number.

I "thought" i'd replaced my TiVO (I know I should be shot for saying that around here) with a Sony HXD1065. It's a TiVOesque HDD recorder, built in freeview, upscaling DVD player (1080i) and DVD burner in one with a very high "Wife Acceptance Factor" due to minimised number of wires.

I'm actually sending it back today because the Freeview tuner in it won't receive ITV1 or Channel4 over freeview in my area even though the tuner in my TV will. Plus it's claim to have "dual tuners" is somewhat overegged. It has 1 x Analogue, 1 x Digital tuner with separate coaxial input/output. These cannot be used together in any way shape or form.

But having used it briefly, even it's Tivoesque functionality wasn't as good as the TiVO. Oh sure the TiVO that we're stuck with over her lacks freeview and DVD burner etc etc. But it's so damn good at what it does, and so immensely hackable.

So I have a question for you, 5 years after I buy any other technology, I can find something half the size, half the money, twice the capacity, twice the functionality. Why not for TiVO?


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

peteoheat said:


> the TiVO that we're stuck with over here *lacks freeview*


Just use the IR wands to get tivo to control a £20 freeview box and you get full functionality (EPG).

Since you have moved to LCD, you should also upgrade to mode0 for the higher picture quality if you haven't already.



> So I have a question for you, 5 years after I buy any other technology, I can find something half the size, half the money, twice the capacity, twice the functionality. Why not for TiVO?


You can add 2x 400GB drives into your tivo if you like 

As for tivo "replacements", it depends on how much functionailty you are prepared to lose. 
Even the live buffer isn't universal !

There are only a few that can do wishlist-like features, 
as well as live buffer and season passes, 
but none do all of it well:

Windows MCE / Vista Premium (www.thegreenbutton.com) is the only real alternative 
with most tivo features (but runs on a PC)

Sky+
Topfield 5800 £200+ (www.toppy.org.uk)
Humax PR9200T £180+ (www.hummy.org.uk)

At the cheaper end I have found the £100 Daewoo 9502 ok with a good GUI and easy to use as a twin tuner recorder (but no live buffer)


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## chrisd (Oct 24, 2003)

I love tivo, but since getting SKY HD last week i'm trying to live without it, as I like the 2 tuners of SKY. 

I gotta say, it's hard to put up with the cr*p they call SKY+ (tiny hard drive, no useful search facility, no "this program will be on at the following dates" etc etc) when you are used to all the functionality of Tivo. Why oh why can't the uk tivo have two tuners damnit!

I am severly tempted to go back to tivo and just using the 1 tuner, and ignore the fact that I can have two tuners if I used SKY+.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

If you can get freeview then adding a £20 freeview box to your TiVo + sky setup will give you the ability to watch all the freeview channels "live" while your TiVo is busy recording from Sky


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## chrisd (Oct 24, 2003)

But then i cant pause em as and when necessary. 

And with a 9 month old baby in the house live-pause is necessary about every 2 minutes!


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Well, if all you want is the ability to pause Live TV then you could get an unsubbed 2nd TiVo and a freeview box


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## peteoheat (Oct 28, 2002)

You see where this is all going. "Get another freeview box", "Get a 2nd Tivo". Both have a very low W.A.F (see initial post).

Life just shouldn't be this complicated (can you tell I turned 40 this year ). 

Regarding SKY+, I keep looking at getting this every year, and looked again in the last month to get SkyHD to show off my new high def TV. But i'm afraid I just baulk at spending £35+ per month for the odd nugget of gold in a the sea of merde that they usually show.

I find that with TiVO I just don't need anymore than 5 channels, because if there's nothing on those live that i want to watch. There's always content on my TiVO to tide me over.

All I want is a networked TiVO, with two freeview tuners, and a DVD burner. Surely I'm not asking too much.


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## chrisd (Oct 24, 2003)

I can't see why some nerd hasn't figured out how to get the American Series 2 or 3 tivos to work over here. Surely it cant be that hard (says someone who wouldn't have even the slightest clue where to even begin!).

Or just stick a 2nd tuner into the UK model. Again, how hard can that be? (I guess pretty damn hard, seeing as no one has done it)


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## britcub (Jan 19, 2004)

chrisd said:


> I can't see why some nerd hasn't figured out how to get the American Series 2 or 3 tivos to work over here. Surely it cant be that hard (says someone who wouldn't have even the slightest clue where to even begin!).


AFAIK no-one's really tried, because it's impossible to _subscribe_ a US TiVo in the UK. I'm sure it's not beyond TiVo to allow this to happen (even though there's a different database structure - I think), so we could at least import new boxes, but they point blank refuse.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

The only way to get a decent setup is to move to the USA.

My brother tells me he now has a choice of 40 HD channels, a TrueHD 1080P 50" TV, fibre cable feed.

He is however too tight to buy a Series 3 Tivo 

ENVY!

Automan.


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## chrisd (Oct 24, 2003)

Trust me, if I could get a green card i'd move back to the States tomorrow.
Lived in NY for nearly 2 years back in '99-01 and am desparate to get back somehow.

ps. Automan, did you write this  guide to upgrade the SKY HD box? Im tempted to do it as I've only had it a week but running out of space already!! Tad worried about screwing up my brand new HD box though.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Yes that is my living room carpet and Toshiba box of the laptop I am typing this response 

The Transgear has now gone and is now an AppleTV

Automan.


chrisd said:


> Trust me, if I could get a green card i'd move back to the States tomorrow.
> Lived in NY for nearly 2 years back in '99-01 and am desparate to get back somehow.
> 
> ps. Automan, did you write this  guide to upgrade the SKY HD box? Im tempted to do it as I've only had it a week but running out of space already!! Tad worried about screwing up my brand new HD box though.


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## cyril (Sep 5, 2001)

Windows MCE or Vista Home Premium seems like your best WAF bet.
It's close to TiVo in functionality, and you can have 4 or posssibly more tuners, DVD, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray and who knows maybe proper Sky DVBs tuner support soon. All in one box.

However, you can also buy a pretty AV cabinet or solder the internals of a Freeview box inside of your TiVo box -there's a thread about doing this somewhere.


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## Pugwash (May 23, 2003)

I made a MCE 2005 box up last year, and was mainly disappointed with it. I had 300GB of space, twin tuners and an awful MCE interface that insisted on recording programmes 4 or 5 times even though I told it "no repeats".
I'm considering "freevo" I think. If it gets better.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

I myself would try a MCE approach again if Sky make a suitable tuner module with viewing card slot available.

With my current freeview signal it is not worth the effort 

Automan.


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## PhilG (Jan 15, 2002)

chrisd said:


> I love tivo, but since getting SKY HD last week i'm trying to live without it, as I like the 2 tuners of SKY.
> 
> I gotta say, it's hard to put up with the cr*p they call SKY+ (tiny hard drive, no useful search facility, no "this program will be on at the following dates" etc etc) when you are used to all the functionality of Tivo. Why oh why can't the uk tivo have two tuners damnit!
> 
> I am severly tempted to go back to tivo and just using the 1 tuner, and ignore the fact that I can have two tuners if I used SKY+.


I wish some magazine (the type that reviews PVRs now and says "Sky + is the best" would include Tivo in their reviews. OK, it'd fall down on the "built in tuner" stakes, but would win hands down on just about every other category and might even shame someone into doing "the right thing"

In fact, any decent marketing person would be able to sell the BENEFITS of not having a built-in tuner ("You can use ANY receiver you like with your Tivo")

Phil G


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## wadadli (Feb 19, 2002)

This would do the trick wouldn't it??
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/tec...rss&adxnnlx=1185307822-Bt5pE2ePLCSX1PjyUM0oSA


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

PhilG said:


> I wish some magazine (the type that reviews PVRs now and says "Sky + is the best" would include Tivo in their reviews. OK, it'd fall down on the "built in tuner" stakes, but would win hands down on just about every other category and might even shame someone into doing "the right thing"


It wouldn't be that useful to consumers given that the routes to buying Tivo are second hand from eBay with no warranty or from Tivoland.com. While I understand that Tivo beats Sky+ for functionality until someone is brave enough to make one available for sale it remains a 'kit car' best buy.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Mentioning Tivo features would be useful as a benchmark against which all other PVRs are measured...

Live buffer (why do many do this so poorly or not at all?)
Trick play (watch a recording before its finsihed, yes some don't do that)
Season passes 
Wishlists - keyword, title, actor ....
Suggestions (though borked at the moment).


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

mikerr said:


> Mentioning Tivo features would be useful as a benchmark against which all other PVRs are measured...
> 
> Live buffer (why do many do this so poorly or not at all?)
> Trick play (watch a recording before its finsihed, yes some don't do that)
> ...


Forgot to mention "forthcoming episodes" which is the most useful feature I find with a single tuner, if you can't record at 7.30pm due to a clash with Eastenders then TiVo records the 1:30am repeat.


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## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

Ian_m said:


> Forgot to mention "forthcoming episodes" which is the most useful feature I find with a single tuner, if you can't record at 7.30pm due to a clash with Eastenders then TiVo records the 1:30am repeat.


I seldom look at forthoming episodes....

....most of what I record on Tivo is on the Discovery and NatGeo channels which have many repeats. If I set up a new season pass, particularly on the terrestrial channels where stuff tends not to be repeated, and Tivo says it wont record <whatever> I just tell it to "Get All Episodes" safe in the knowledge that Tivo will reschedule the discovery/NatGeo programs and get them anyway !!!

My only current worry is about changing my Multiroom digibox for a Multiroom SKY+ box incase the kids set it up to record two programs at the same time so that it would prevent Tivo from recording what it wanted.


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## AWT (Aug 25, 2005)

A few times now I've been tempted to build myself a http://www.mythtv.org/ box. It's essentially a PVR based upon a Linux PC with TV card(s) fitted.

One the one hand, the WAF is low because you need to stash a PC in the living room (and make it small and quiet). On the other, the WAF can be very high if you show her something that can record 1,2,3, 4 or more channels at once, you rip her favourite DVDs or CDs onto it etc etc. I suspect however, that because of the software complexity and potential functionality if you modify it, you'll be inclined to tinker and break it occasionally!


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

AWT said:


> It's essentially a PVR based upon a Linux PC ...


Sounds familar somehow


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## AWT (Aug 25, 2005)

cwaring said:


> Sounds familar somehow


LOL, sadly that's too true. Still, while MythTV is arguably US-centric, us mere islanders can at least keep bang up to date with software and hardware developments.

That other Youtube thread here about the TiVo startup video, featuring the sponge/puppet/doll thing (call it what you will) on a TiVo Central, kindof brought it all home to me in terms of what we're missing out on.


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## Major dude (Oct 28, 2002)

peteoheat said:


> Regarding SKY+, I keep looking at getting this every year, and looked again in the last month to get SkyHD to show off my new high def TV. But i'm afraid I just baulk at spending £35+ per month for the odd nugget of gold in a the sea of merde that they usually show.


As someone who has 2 TiVos and has been using Sky HD and Sky + for a year now, I agree with everything you say. I have now downgraded my Sky sub to the £15 minimum (so as to retain Sky+ for free) but the fact is as compared to TiVo it is still not worth even this reduced sub. I would rather forego the better pq from say BBC HD material recorded on Sky HD as compared to the same recorded on TiVo in standard sd never mind that recorded in mode 0. The reason for this is that the TiVo interface is so much better to the point where I cannot tolerate using Sky HD any longer.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Major dude said:


> As someone who has 2 TiVos and has been using Sky HD and Sky + for a year now, I agree with everything you say. I have now downgraded my Sky sub to the £15 minimum (so as to retain Sky+ for free) but the fact is as compared to TiVo it is still not worth even this reduced sub. I would rather forego the better pq from say BBC HD material recorded on Sky HD as compared to the same recorded on TiVo in standard sd never mind that recorded in mode 0. The reason for this is that the TiVo interface is so much better to the point where I cannot tolerate using Sky HD any longer.


Its good to know that my brief few minutes at a store trying to use the Sky+ interface correctly led me to the conclusion that it was utter rubbish compared to Tivo without having to go so far as to my waste my money or time and energy on actual installation.


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## mdolan (Jun 4, 2002)

I'll post a shout for Media Portal.

Incredibly easy to setup and a very active support/development team.

http://www.team-mediaportal.com/

Oh yeah, it's free and definitely not US-centric either!

Cheers,
Mike


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mdolan said:


> I'll post a shout for Media Portal.
> 
> Incredibly easy to setup and a very active support/development team.
> 
> ...


I couldn't get MediaPortal make my Lifeview dual DVB and analogue PCMCIA card work properly in my 1.6ghz HP Centrino Notebook though. Mind you I couldn't get it work properly without constant frame stuttering with Lifeview's own software either. Lifeview claimed it was HP's video circuitry not supporting DirectX 9c implementation properly, even though HP swore blind that it did.


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## chubbybrown (Feb 19, 2005)

I use an older thomson twin tuner pvr with hd,
The I use a tivo as well so I can record one or two sides and watch a reply as well.
cheapest solution so far.


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## TheBear (Feb 21, 2001)

Would anyone buy a Freeview based Tivo that also downloads Sky programmes via broadband?


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

We would all probably buy a new tivo no matter what shape or form it came in


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## Nebulous (Nov 28, 2005)

TheBear said:


> Would anyone buy a Freeview based Tivo that also downloads Sky programmes via broadband?


If it had multiple tuners and you could turn off the sky thing, then yes, I'll take a dozen please


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Isn't that pretty much BT Vision?


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

The low usage caps that all broadband suppliers seem to be bringing in these days is at odds with any tv-over-broadband product.

Unless the product is by the actual broadband supplier themselves - like BT or VM cable for instance.

(BT vision)


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