# Future TIVO (Series 5?) - 2013



## ghuido (May 9, 2007)

Zatz - What are you doing???? I remember the feeding frenzy 2 years ago with all the speculation for the TIVO Premiere.

i guess it is time for the feeding frenzy to start up again.

2013 TIVO HArdware thoughts .... anyone .... Now taking bets.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-05/tivo-premiere-successor-foreshadowed-2013/


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

ghuido said:


> Zatz - What are you doing???? I remember the feeding frenzy 2 years ago with all the speculation for the TIVO Premiere.
> 
> i guess it is time for the feeding frenzy to start up again.
> 
> ...


I started this thread thinking that maybe they would announce a Series 5 at CES 2012 --> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=470885

It appears I was about a year early...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Sounds like it will be a minor refresh to include the transcoding hardware inside the box. We're also likely to see a minor increase in chip speed that'll improve the HD UI performance and maybe a built in BT receiver for the slide remote. Everything else TiVo needs to do is software related.

Dan


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Don't forget about two more tuners.
If they come out with an S5 with 3TB of storage and six tuners, I will probably be selling my Elites(and TiVo stream box) and using the six tuner box with two IP STBs.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

The problem is that 2013 is quite a ways off and they don't say when in 2013. They could be aiming for September 2013 and who knows what could have changed by then. With the rebranding of the XL4 and the refresh on the Premiere even though I don't believe the hardware changed, I wouldn't expect it until maybe second quarter 2013.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Dear lord, what would you do with all the free counter space if you one day made it down to only one DVR in your house? 

Me personally, I just want more multihertzses, the 4G's, and some gigarams.

Honestly I don't know what else they can add except maybe the transcoding. Just make a platform powerful enough to support the software appropriately from Day 1. The Premiere era has had too much negativity the last 2 years.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

How about this (above what was mentioned):

1: Built in MoCA/HPNA
2: Direct IPTV, as in the IPTV component that Verizon FIOS uses, and that AT&T Uverse uses.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Seeing how TiVo is suing Verizon, I don't see that happening unless they come to an agreement soon.

Although I would love for it to happen since FiOS uses IP to deliver their VOD. And I would certainly like to have access to FiOS VOD on my TiVos. But they aren't even offering FiOS VOD on the Xbox 360.


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## ghuido (May 9, 2007)

aaronwt said:


> Don't forget about two more tuners.
> If they come out with an S5 with 3TB of storage and six tuners, I will probably be selling my Elites(and TiVo stream box) and using the six tuner box with two IP STBs.


I would be in shock if AaronWT went down to 1 TIVO Box ...


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> Everything else TiVo needs to do is software related.


Hasn't that been the case ever since the Premiere came out, if not before? It was obvious that the hardware was way ahead of the software 2 years ago, and given Tivo's slow rollout pace I don't see much changing here with a new box.

They have gotten better recently I'll admit, but then I read that the IP STB will need a static tuner assigned from an XL4/Elite so I slapped my head and went WTF all over again. They really need some better devs, or stop offshoring stuff (if they are).


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

ghuido said:


> I would be in shock if AaronWT went down to 1 TIVO Box ...


, I'll always have at least two. I have one box on OTA only that I take with me to my GFs house for shows that I've recorded from my other boxes on FiOS.


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## ghuido (May 9, 2007)

aaronwt said:


> , I'll always have at least two. I have one box on OTA only that I take with me to my GFs house for shows that I've recorded from my other boxes on FiOS.


Now there is Man with a plan ...


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## mrsean (May 15, 2006)

Besides 6 tuners, I'd like to see 6GB storage support in the form of 2 hotswappable hard drives. This would make it very easy over the current methods for folks like me that want to archive their recordings.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Well, this is just silly. The absolute best way Tivo could ensure I don't buy a new box is:

1. 6 or more tuners
2. MoCA support
3. 3T hard drive
4. Hot swappable hard drives

All of those things cost money, and are of very limited utility for most people. They are of absolutely no utility for me.

1. Two tuners is plenty more than 90% of the time, especially for anyone who has multiple TiVos. It will cost TiVo and the consumer a lot less if they develop cooperative scheduling.

2. Yawn. MoCA is far too slow, limited, and expensive. Gigabit Ethernet is a much better target, and it's less expensive to deploy.

3. The TiVo's FIFO storage becomes effectively infinite somewhere around 1T or less for most users. 3T is an unnecesssary expense. I only have one TiVo with more than 1.2T of storage, and at some point in the near future, I am probably going to downgrade it to 1.2T. One of my Tivos only has 750G. I have no plans to ever upgrade it.

4. Hot swappable hard drives would be nothing but a major pain. A NAS is a far, far better solution.

The only thing that would interest me is stable, effective Gig-E support (which is quite reasonable) and the elimination of the chain of trust (which is never going to happen). That's OK, though. I have my Series III machines, and they do everything I need. Anything else, I implement on one of my servers.

The internal BT support is of limited interest, but since it costs almost nothing to implement, I won't argue against it.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

I guess I don't have any issue with TiVo developing a "whole Home Solution" but honestly I hope they also stay with and update a basic 2 tuner solution that still supports OTA. 

I actually like having multiple DVRs (all of mine are connect to the same TV); Redundancy is a great thing .

I would be interested in a "Series 5" that improved on the Premiere's OTA reception, general performance, and provided the functionality of the up coming "Stream" device.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

LOL. Yes it is getting a little silly.

I think it's safe to say MoCA will be standard from now on, up and down the line from the XL6 to the standard model. It's mandatory for whole-home solutions. It's built right onto many of Broadcom's chips anyway.

My debate question for the class is... should they dump analog as a standard feature going forward? Considering the cost it adds, I would say yes, and just keep some Premieres in stock for those who still need it.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

lrhorer said:


> Well, this is just silly. The absolute best way Tivo could ensure I don't buy a new box is:
> 
> 1. 6 or more tuners
> 2. MoCA support
> ...


Good analysis as I think TiVo now is at the 95% level for the average retail customer that does not use this TiVo community Form. I think TiVo is where VHS recorders were in the late 90s. A series 5 would make sense only if TiVo could bring down the hardware cost and provide faster chips so that the total menu system is HD only, and stop supporting the SDUI. As my TiVo menu use to watch time is so small I don't care what the menu system is (I now use only the SDUI) as long as it is very responsive. The rest of the bells and whistles will appeal to some people but not the great majority of people (not on this form).
As said above 2 tuners is enough for most people (I have four TPs in four different rooms so I have 8 tuners available if my family needs them). Also 300 Hr of HD storage is twice what I would every need but going from 1Tb to 2Tb at the time i did it was only about $15, and again with 4 TPs that over 1200 total hours of HD storage, way more than my family needs. As of now I don't think I would upgrade to a Series 5 in the next few years if a Series 5 did came out in that time frame.


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## ghuido (May 9, 2007)

My Wish List

1.) Keep the 4 Tuners. Unless More are required to support "Whole-Home Solution" Streaming. E.g. You have 6 Tuners but the n2 are used to stream Live TV to a TIVO Extender. 
2.) Keep 2 TB Drive. Have never ever run into a RUN OUT OF SPACE scenario with his amount. Adopting of MPEG4 might even make this an even more mute point since same quality less hard drive space is used. I might consider a scenario where there are two Hard Drives. (One to STore the OS and One to store the Recordings). Maybe even on-board storage. This way if the hard drive dies your entire TIVO does not crap out just swap the drive. 
3.) Built in Wirelss N/AC + bluetooth + MOCA
4.) Faster BroadCom Chip or More Cores. 
5.) Future Compatibility for AllVid Solution. Any future TIVO must be compatible with the future path (IPTV, etc ... )


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

In my opinion, a tiny niche market exists for a DVR with 6 tuners, 3TB, MoCA and other additional cost features. The problem for TiVo is already cost and making the box more expensive won't help but still as an option for the tiny market willing to pay the price, that sounds like a good idea. TiVo must replace the Premiere with a comparable DVR adding more and better streaming access, I see that as more important than an ultra DVR for the niche market. 

Ceton and maybe one or two other companies should be able to beat TiVo to market with an ultra DVR, running Windows Media Center, and it will be interesting to see if there is any market willing to pay the necessary price for such a box.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

The good thing with TiVo is they can develop it for the cable comapanies since that will be the primary purchaser of the device. And then just market it in the retail environment on the side. Since they are less reliant on the retail market now like other devices might be.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

A 6-tuner box is a niche for individual box usage, but not as a whole-home solution. The primary purpose of these kinds of boxes is to do all the heavy-lifting for inexpensive IP STB boxes placed around the rest of the house. By and large this scenario reduces long term costs. This is where cable is going, so it'll be where Tivo goes.

But sure, if someone doesn't want to go all-in with Tivo hardware or they don't have more than one or two TVs, then don't get an XL6 model. There would be no point in that case.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

lrhorer said:


> 1. Two tuners is plenty more than 90% of the time, especially for anyone who has multiple TiVos. It will cost TiVo and the consumer a lot less if they develop cooperative scheduling.


I completely disagree, since the way Tivos work now, BOTH TUNERS are taken up if you simply record VERY POPULAR programming and actually want to see all of it! (e.g. CBS Mondays, and NBC Thursdays). You HAVE to add a minute of end padding to all of the shows(*) to actually see the entire show.

When I had 2 working 2 tuner Tivos, that fit most of my needs.. But 6 tuners in one box is very compelling.

(*) Lately, CBS *sometimes* needs padding and sometimes doesn't. NBC always does. But since I don't know beforehand if it needs padding, obviously I have padding added.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

mattack said:


> I completely disagree, since the way Tivos work now, BOTH TUNERS are taken up if you simply record VERY POPULAR programming and actually want to see all of it! (e.g. CBS Mondays, and *NBC Thursdays*).


I'm not sure I would consider NBC Thursdays a very popular anything. They continue to have record low ratings. All of the shows are aging and past their prime (except Up All Night which doesn't have a big audience anyway).


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

My money would be on the S5 using the Broadcom BCM7435 (Yes, 74*3*5), which is the new, big brother to the BCM7425. Humax has a prototype DVR on display at The Cable Show using this chip. It has *8* QAM tuners (though CableCARD still only supports 6, the other two would have to be Clear QAM or something else), 8 DOCSIS 3.0 'tuners', another performance boost in the CPU cores, and *four* built in H.264 transcoders. Humax expects their DVR to be available to MSOs in 1Q13.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

It could also use the ability to convert 1080p24 to 1080p60 (or 1080i30, for that matter) for older televisions which can't accept a 24p source (like mine).


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

mattack said:


> I completely disagree, since the way Tivos work now, BOTH TUNERS are taken up if you simply record VERY POPULAR programming and actually want to see all of it! (e.g. CBS Mondays, and NBC Thursdays). You HAVE to add a minute of end padding to all of the shows(*) to actually see the entire show.
> 
> When I had 2 working 2 tuner Tivos, that fit most of my needs.. But 6 tuners in one box is very compelling.
> 
> (*) Lately, CBS *sometimes* needs padding and sometimes doesn't. NBC always does. But since I don't know beforehand if it needs padding, obviously I have padding added.


I don't need padding on the few NBC shows I record. Like Law and Oder SVU. It starts and stops at the correct time without padding or missing any of the show on my recordings from OTA and FiOS.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

mikeyts said:


> It could also use the ability to convert 1080p24 to 1080p60 (or 1080i30, for that matter) for older televisions which can't accept a 24p source (like mine).


IN 2013 the box had better be able to scale to 1080P60. Otherwise that would just be absurd. I've been inputting 1080P60 into my main HDTV since 2005. In the year 2013 no HD device should be limited to 1080P24 pass through as the max resolution.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

megazone said:


> My money would be on the S5 using the Broadcom BCM7435 (Yes, 74*3*5), which is the new, big brother to the BCM7425. Humax has a prototype DVR on display at The Cable Show using this chip. It has *8* QAM tuners (though CableCARD still only supports 6, the other two would have to be Clear QAM or something else), 8 DOCSIS 3.0 'tuners', another performance boost in the CPU cores, and *four* built in H.264 transcoders. Humax expects their DVR to be available to MSOs in 1Q13.


So wouldn't the 8 QAM tuner box just have two cable card slots to handle the eight tuners? And use four tuners on each cable card.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

mattack said:


> I completely disagree, since the way Tivos work now, BOTH TUNERS are taken up if you simply record VERY POPULAR programming and actually want to see all of it! (e.g. CBS Mondays, and NBC Thursdays). You HAVE to add a minute of end padding to all of the shows(*) to actually see the entire show.


There were a couple of times during the past season where I needed 4 tuners even w/o padding. 9PM on both Thursdays and Fridays. This was all broadcast network stuff so no option to pick up a later showing. Needing 3 was even more common.

For me, Fox is the one that usually requires padding at both ends. During football season, CBS Sunday needs a lot. I had my SP for "CSI:Miami" padded by an hour. Luckily, it is the last thing on so no real conflicts. Did sometimes miss a second or so of "The Good Wife". Other sporting events have been known to cause similar problems on the other networks.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

mattack said:


> I completely disagree, since the way Tivos work now, BOTH TUNERS are taken up if you simply record VERY POPULAR programming and actually want to see all of it! (e.g. CBS Mondays, and NBC Thursdays). You HAVE to add a minute of end padding to all of the shows(*) to actually see the entire show.


 Add to that sports games that happen during prime time and quite often I do need 5 tuners. And I'm already careful to dedicate specific DVRs to specific network channels which helps reduce conflicts - NBC & CBS on 1 Premiere, ABC & FOX on another, and then using S3 OLED when 4 tuners can't cover things.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> IN 2013 the box had better be able to scale to 1080P60. Otherwise that would just be absurd. I've been inputting 1080P60 into my main HDTV since 2005. In the year 2013 no HD device should be limited to 1080P24 pass through as the max resolution.


It's absurd already--any crap $60 BD player can do this; every BD player ever made can.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

And any decent AVR made in the last year or two can convert any resolution out of the TiVo to any resolution that you want to send to your display.

Until broadcasters support 1080p/60 (they don't) there's no reason for TiVo to support it.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

jmpage2 said:


> And any decent AVR made in the last year or two can convert any resolution out of the TiVo to any resolution that you want to send to your display.
> 
> Until broadcasters support 1080p/60 (they don't) there's no reason for TiVo to support it.


Netflix streaming is the main reason it is needed in my use. Of course if they changed it so it would only stream at 1080P24, then that would be the best option for me to allow my DUO to continue to be used for scaling.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

From Gizmo:

http://www.gizmolovers.com/2012/05/23/more-tivo-tidbits-from-the-cable-show/


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

jmpage2 said:


> And any decent AVR made in the last year or two can convert any resolution out of the TiVo to any resolution that you want to send to your display.
> 
> Until broadcasters support 1080p/60 (they don't) there's no reason for TiVo to support it.


As has been pointed out ad nauseum in various threads in these forums, TiVo is the "One Box"--it's not about just broadcast television anymore. Again, it doesn't need to output p60; conversion to i30 would do, though p60 would be better. All four other devices that I own which can play 1080p24 Netflix can convert to p60 (2 BD players, a PS3 and a Roku 2; only one of them can output it as p24). You shouldn't have to buy a recent model AVR to make up for this _bizarre_ design deficiency.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

mikeyts said:


> As has been pointed out ad nauseum in various threads in these forums, TiVo is the "One Box"--it's not about just broadcast television anymore. Again, it doesn't need to output p60; conversion to i30 would do, though p60 would be better. All four other devices that I own which can play 1080p24 Netflix can convert to p60 (2 BD players, a PS3 and a Roku 2; only one of them can output it as p24). You shouldn't have to buy a recent model AVR to make up for this _bizarre_ design deficiency.


If TiVo is trying to be the "one box" then they are failing miserably and should address content issues before they worry about piddly issues like supporting 1080p/60.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

jmpage2 said:


> If TiVo is trying to be the "one box" then they are failing miserably and should address content issues before they worry about piddly issues like supporting 1080p/60.


It's only "piddly" if it doesn't affect you. Unlike other deficiencies of TiVo-as-the-"One Box", it's probably something which can only be dealt with in hardware, which is why I brought it up in this thread. Creating another generation of boxes which are physically incapable of outputting a 1080p24 stream as i30 or p60 would be ridiculous.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

megazone said:


> 8 DOCSIS 3.0 'tuners'


What exactly are these? Does this mean something like U-verse?


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

mattack said:


> What exactly are these? Does this mean something like U-verse?


DOCSIS is cablemodem tech (Data Over Cable Service Interface Specification).


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

Im not going to buy one if it does not have ota and 4 tuners



atmuscarella said:


> I guess I don't have any issue with TiVo developing a "whole Home Solution" but honestly I hope they also stay with and update a basic 2 tuner solution that still supports OTA.
> 
> I actually like having multiple DVRs (all of mine are connect to the same TV); Redundancy is a great thing .
> 
> I would be interested in a "Series 5" that improved on the Premiere's OTA reception, general performance, and provided the functionality of the up coming "Stream" device.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

mikeyts said:


> It's only "piddly" if it doesn't affect you. Unlike other deficiencies of TiVo-as-the-"One Box", it's probably something which can only be dealt with in hardware, which is why I brought it up in this thread. Creating another generation of boxes which are physically incapable of outputting a 1080p24 stream as i30 or p60 would be ridiculous.


My AVR and my displays are all pretty much capable of converting 1080p/24 to 60fps. The thing that The TiVo Faithful are always missing is the big picture.

The big picture is that if TiVo does not get a highly compelling all-room solution that supports lots and lots (and lots) of streamed content, they are screwed, at least in the retail market.

People worrying about things like output resolutions, 6 (or 8) tuner boxes, hot swappable hard drives, synchronized scheduling between scads of TiVo units they have, etc ad naseum are basically TiVos hard core fringe users and probably less than 1% of the users out there. No matter how faithful, loyal and evangelical these users are, they are not enough to sustain TiVo as a business. TiVo needs highly compelling, easy to deploy products that cater to mom and pop.

Mom and pop are way, way more concerned about things like being able to watch their TiVo in another room of their house (without needing a separate transcoder device), side-load content to their iPad for their family road trip (without a separate transcoder device), etc, and probably don't give a crap about whether their TiVo box is outputting native display formats when their TV probably just deinterlaces or does 3:2 pulldown, etc, on whatever the TiVo sends.

Catering to "the fringe" is a great way of going out of business. This is exactly why Nest has completely blown off the whiners who keep asking for SDKs so that they can put wallpaper of their dogs on their electronic thermostats.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

jmpage2 said:


> My AVR and my displays are all pretty much capable of converting 1080p/24 to 60fps. The thing that The TiVo Faithful are always missing is the big picture.
> 
> The big picture is that if TiVo does not get a highly compelling all-room solution that supports lots and lots (and lots) of streamed content, they are screwed, at least in the retail market.
> 
> ...


Mine are too as well as my external scaler. But I do have an issue with the DD+ on Netflix from the TiVos when it resyncs when going from 720P to 1080P24 or when FF or REW a streaming title. Having the TiVo output 1080P60 would avoid this issue(My Roku2 doesn't have a problem) or having an option to only stream at 1080P24 would work as well. Although I would prefer it to only output 1080P24. Since I have no bandwidth issues and once it starts playing the 1080P24 stream, it stays with that during the entire title without having to drop down to a lower reosolution stream.

Ultimately, the new Broadcom chip does have 1080P60 output capability. So if an S5 uses that chip, like it should be, the S5 TiVo will have 1080P60 output capability.
This would directly cater to the average TiVo user. Since your average user has no desire to see a blank screen for a second or two every time HDMI needs to resync with a resolution change. With 1080P60 output this issue is avoided and makes the experience much better for your average user.

So from that perspective, 1080P60 output is not catering to a Fringe user but to the mass market user. Which makes 1080P60 output even more of a priority.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> Mine are too as well as my external scaler. But I do have an issue with the DD+ on Netflix from the TiVos when it resyncs when going from 720P to 1080P24 or when FF or REW a streaming title. Having the TiVo output 1080P60 would avoid this issue or having an option to only stream at 1080P24 would work as well. Although I would prefer it to only output 1080P24. Since I have no bandwidth issues and once it starts playing the 1080P24 stream, it stays with that during the entire title without having to drop down to a lower reosolution stream.


I am not opposed to TiVo doing anything you guys are asking for, I'm simply pointing out that they have much bigger fish to fry and that this stuff is probably not a priority for them.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

jmpage2 said:


> The big picture is that if TiVo does not get a highly compelling all-room solution that supports lots and lots (and lots) of streamed content, they are screwed, at least in the retail market.
> 
> People worrying about things like output resolutions, 6 (or 8) tuner boxes, hot swappable hard drives, synchronized scheduling between scads of TiVo units they have, etc ad naseum are basically TiVos hard core fringe users and probably less than 1% of the users out there. No matter how faithful, loyal and evangelical these users are, they are not enough to sustain TiVo as a business. TiVo needs highly compelling, easy to deploy products that cater to mom and pop.
> 
> ...


Wow. Very well said!

I think the current team at TiVo *understands *this hence the reason they make quite a few people on TCF unhappy. Whatever TiVo deploys needs to be rock-solid, very easy to use with mass appeal. They should look to the fringe for possible ideas that could lead to innovation that appeals to the mass market.


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## speed_phreak (Apr 6, 2006)

If this thread is a "wish list" for the Series 5...

What about the feasibility of integrating a Tuning Adapter? 

More tuners would be nice, but I can get that with a series 4... An integrated tuning adapter may convince me to open my wallet...


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

speed_phreak said:


> If this thread is a "wish list" for the Series 5...
> 
> What about the feasibility of integrating a Tuning Adapter?
> 
> More tuners would be nice, but I can get that with a series 4... An integrated tuning adapter may convince me to open my wallet...


You can get six tuners with a series 4? A series 4 can only handle 8 or 9 concurrent streams. Putting six tuners in an S4 would not be a good idea when you might need more streams when recording six things, watching on the main box and sending content to several IP STBs.

Sent from my HTC ReZound using Forum Runner


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

speed_phreak said:


> If this thread is a "wish list" for the Series 5...
> 
> What about the feasibility of integrating a Tuning Adapter?
> 
> More tuners would be nice, but I can get that with a series 4... An integrated tuning adapter may convince me to open my wallet...


NO NO NO NO NO. 
 I don't want the kludge that is the TA integrated into the TiVo.
 A TA is not the only way to handle SDV. IP back-channel anyone?
 I doubt if there is any standard.
 Not every cable system uses SDV.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

That's not possible anyway. The whole reason we have TAs is because different cable systems use different technologies for SDV. TiVo tried to convince them to use a standard IP based solution, but settled for TAs instead. Now we're stuck with them until something replaces CableCARDs. (come on AllVid!)

Dan


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## mrsean (May 15, 2006)

jmpage2 said:


> People worrying about things like output resolutions, 6 (or 8) tuner boxes, hot swappable hard drives, synchronized scheduling between scads of TiVo units they have, etc ad naseum are basically TiVos hard core fringe users and probably less than 1% of the users out there. No matter how faithful, loyal and evangelical these users are, they are not enough to sustain TiVo as a business. TiVo needs highly compelling, easy to deploy products that cater to mom and pop.


I don't consider hot-swappable hard drives or 6 tuners fringe items; maybe a year ago but not now. Verizon's 6 tuners whole home solution is debuting this winter so TiVo will need to have something comparable out soon after. Also, hot-swappable drives could save TiVo tech support and customers a lot of grief since 90% of TiVo hardware failures are related to the hard disk.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

lpwcomp said:


> I don't want the kludge that is the TA integrated into the TiVo.


Umm, isn't the major reason it's unreliable due to it being separate equipment? Yeah, people have problems with cable cards too, but not as much.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

mattack said:


> Umm, isn't the major reason it's unreliable due to it being separate equipment? Yeah, people have problems with cable cards too, but not as much.


There are standards for CableCARDS. There are none for TA's, just some basic FCC requirements about minimum supported simultaneous channels.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

mrsean said:


> I don't consider hot-swappable hard drives or 6 tuners fringe items; maybe a year ago but not now. Verizon's 6 tuners whole home solution is debuting this winter so TiVo will need to have something comparable out soon after. Also, hot-swappable drives could save TiVo tech support and customers a lot of grief since 90% of TiVo hardware failures are related to the hard disk.


TiVo will never offer a consumer model with hot swapable drives. It wouldn't save any grief. Right now they send out a new unit and the failed unit is returned an refurbed. The typical customer service rep is lucky if they can accurately diagnose whether the problem is hardware or software. They're not going to start attempting to diagnose hard drive failures.

Pace has already announced that they'll offer a 6 tuner TiVo unit for MSOs. I doubt that TiVo will build their own just to offer it in the retail market.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

nrc said:


> Pace has already announced that they'll offer a 6 tuner TiVo unit for MSOs. I doubt that TiVo will build their own just to offer it in the retail market.


Where has this been announced? The Pace one that is.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

mattack said:


> Where has this been announced? The Pace one that is.


Here is the Engadget page

TiVo shows off Pace-built XG1 six-tuner gateway DVR 

And here is the press release from the TiVo site

TiVo and Pace Announce First Pace Product With TiVo Software Integration


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## johnd01 (Dec 17, 2002)

After all that has been said in this thread, I still think adding 1000baseT and software to gang multiple series 4 boxes together is the most cost effective low volume bang per buck enhancement they can do. 

The boxes steam well together now. I like to record a series and then watch a season's worth of shows in a few days.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

For me, I typically will only watch a bunch of episodes in a row when the shows are available from a streaming site or BD. Then I don't have to worry about FF through commercials. I had recorded the final season of chuck and it still sits on one of my Elites. At this point I'm just going to watch the BD when it's released instead of watching what I recorded from the local station.

Sent from my HTC ReZound using Forum Runner


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> For me, I typically will only watch a bunch of episodes in a row when the shows are available from a streaming site or BD. Then I don't have to worry about FF through commercials. I had recorded the final season of chuck and it still sits on one of my Elites. At this point I'm just going to watch the BD when it's released instead of watching what I recorded from the local station.
> 
> Sent from my HTC ReZound using Forum Runner


BD? Are you referring to Blueray Disk? If so, do you rent or buy them?


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

mattack said:


> Umm, isn't the major reason it's unreliable due to it being separate equipment? Yeah, people have problems with cable cards too, but not as much.


No, it is unreliable because it is a bad design, mandated by committee. There were several possible solutions, and they chose the worst for purely specious reasons. Starting off with a bad design philosophy, they then saddled the platform with a number of "features" CableLabs should never have been allowed to implement, and rushed it to market.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> There are standards for CableCARDS. There are none for TA's, just some basic FCC requirements about minimum supported simultaneous channels.


Even those were implemented well after the fact, and it mostly affects CableCards, not so much the TA.

Face it, folks, unless there is some fairly serious regulation reform or some serious shakeup at CableLabs, no DVR of any sort will ever have a built-in TA.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

lrhorer said:


> Even those were implemented well after the fact, and it mostly affects CableCards, not so much the TA.
> 
> Face it, folks, unless there is some fairly serious regulation reform or some serious shakeup at CableLabs, no DVR of any sort will ever have a built-in TA.


While the FCC decided not to mandate a method for implementing SDV, they did in fact adopt some minimal requirements regarding TA's (while not specifically referring to them as such), FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(4):



> (4) Effective August 1, 2011, provide, through the use of a commonly used interface and published specifications for communication, CableCARD-reliant, firmware-upgradable navigation devices the ability to tune simultaneously as many switched-digital channels as the greatest number of streams supported by any set-top box provided by the cable operator, or four simultaneous channels, whichever is greater;


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Johncv said:


> BD? Are you referring to Blueray Disk? If so, do you rent or buy them?


I rent and also purchase Blu-ray Disc titles. But mainly rent now. Six years ago I mainly purchased them but it's much cheaper to just rent them.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

A snappy interface, 6 tuners, and at least 2 tb storage and $100 extenders.

I haven't cared about Moca because there are few Moca products at retail and they are expensive.


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## agredon (Jul 26, 2011)

I would expect the basic model to have 4 Tuners, with a 6 Tuner premium model available at a higher price. 2 Tuners just isn't enough anymore, especially if I have to pad shows, and particularly during primetime.

As for storage, the basic model should be at least 2 TB, with the premium model at 4-6 TB. Why so much storage?

1. You can record everything in HD. No more recording shows in SD to conserve space.

2. You can go out of town for a week or two, unlike with my [45 Hour] Premiere which I can't leave for more than 24 - 48 hours before it gets full and starts deleting stuff.

3. Each step up in capacity adds very little cost, while adding significant capacity. If you start with a 500 GB HDD, going to 1 TB will double the capacity for only $20 more, 2 TB will quadruple the capacity for only $50 more, and 3TB will give you 6 times the capacity for only $70 more. In fact, using anything smaller than 2-3 TB is simply wasting money [on a per GB basis]:

500 GB: $0.16/GB
1 TB: $0.10/GB
2 TB: $0.06/GB
3 TB: $0.05/GB
DVD-R or BD-R: $0.04/GB

I expect that the Series 5 will drop analog all together, but I'm hoping they won't do away with the ATSC (OTA) tuners also, like they did with the Premiere XL4.


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## agredon (Jul 26, 2011)

BTW, my estimated recording capacities for different channels:

My Network TV HD = 143 Hours per TB
CBS HD = 167 Hours per TB
NBC HD = 167 Hours per TB
TNT HD = 180 Hours per TB
FOX HD = 200 Hours per TB
ION HD = 225 Hours per TB
ABC Family HD = 235 Hours per TB
CW HD = 250 Hours per TB
ABC HD = 265 Hours per TB (Primetime. For some reason Daytime shows such as Live! seem to be broadcast at a higher bitrate)
Most SD Channels = 1,000 Hours per TB
Disney Junior = 1,500 Hours per TB
Logo, Teen Nick, Antenna TV... = 2,000 Hours per TB


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## alex_h (Feb 10, 2004)

I'd like, but don't expect, the ability to add a BluRay Accessory like the hard drive, to add the ability to play BluRay, preferably with the easy to use Tivo interface. I wouldn't do it to save money, my BluRay player plays Network media and Netflix discs for stuff not available to stream... Integrating it with Tivo would be neat... would also bring me extremely close to not needing fancy receivers/switches, because everything would be in my Tivo.

Maybe that would be a niche accessory, maybe not. Optical discs may be on the way out, but they aren't gone yet...

I am guessing that the Stream/Transcoding device will NOT be a part of Series 5, I'd be shocked if they were to create a piece of hardware that will be obsolete so quickly (I'd expect in 6), but who knows, maybe it will live on since old Tivos live on long beyond their expected life.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I know both Dave Zatz and I have mentioned we wish they would release a Blu-Ray player. It seems like a Blu-Ray player with the Mini built in would be a nice device.


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## sdnative1 (Mar 7, 2009)

I think the next Tivo (Series 5) should have built in wi-fi. You shouldn't have to pay $60 for a separate device.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

sdnative1 said:


> I think the next Tivo (Series 5) should have built in wi-fi. You shouldn't have to pay $60 for a separate device.


I don't think you will see built in WiFi. TiVo really wants you to be using a wired solution. The Stream is wired only and I believe they want you to use a wired solution to stream from a Premiere to another Premiere or to the up coming mini.


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## scole250 (Nov 8, 2005)

sdnative1 said:


> I think the next Tivo (Series 5) should have built in wi-fi. You shouldn't have to pay $60 for a separate device.


The Premiere 4's already support MoCA which many report is easy to setup and few issues. They also function as a MoCA to wired Ethernet bridge so if one Tivo can be plugged into Ethernet, it's all wired.


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## NotNowChief (Mar 29, 2012)

Allow me to take out my crystal ball.......

BREAKING NEWS: THIS HARDWARE WILL BE DELAYED UNTIL FOURTH QUARTER 2014!


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

NotNowChief said:


> BREAKING NEWS: THIS HARDWARE WILL BE DELAYED UNTIL FOURTH QUARTER 2014!


A two year delay is pessimistic even for TiVo.


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