# TiVO future - worth it to invest in a Roamio?



## gigaguy (Aug 30, 2013)

Reading comments about cablecards ending and overall media changes happening, I wonder if it's wise for me to invest in a new cableTV Roamio now?

I'd love to experience the Roamio but wonder if I want to spend much on what might not be viable in 2-3 years. I was a Sony DHG DVR user that lost functionality when TVGuide stopped. (best DVR I've ever used).

Do you think we will see changes effecting Tivo usage in 2-3 years? Seeing cheaper Tivo deals and costs go down to almost half for some new Tivo buyers from past models makes me wonder what Tivo co may be anticipating. I see Tivo is doing well in many parts of the world. I don't like the reliance on Time Warner and other cablecos..


----------



## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

CableCards aren't going away in the next 2-3 years. They will probably still be around a decade from now. If that is the only thing keeping you from buying a Roamio, you should definitely buy one.


----------



## MrDell (Jul 8, 2012)

The way I look at it is that if cable cards went away in 3 to 5 years, you will still be ahead of the deal with a lifetime Tivo purchase. I say go for it!!
The base Roamio has an antenna option so you can always use it for "over the air" reception.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

What are your other dvr choices? IT's the cable co dvr, WMC or Tivo afaik. 

If it's cost you're worried about then do the math. 

If worst case, in 3 years, cablecard goes kaput, and your Tivo is worth nothing then what is your cost over those 3 years?

For tivo, you can find a deal on a Roamio Plus with lifetime for $600 plus cost of Ebay code. That's about $18/mo over 3 years plus cost of cablecard which is anywhere from $0-$5/mo.

A cable co dvr is going to be $14-$20/mo. 

WMC costs and quality wildly vary. But I think to build a new WMC pc that is fairly quiet and efficient and compact and decent looking it will cost as much as a deal on a Roamio Plus. So figure on similar costs there as Tivo.

I would call the monthly cost of the average cable co dvr and a Tivo a wash. And so, worst case, you would be paying more for your Tivo over 3 years at the monthly rate equal to your cablecard's monthly rental. OR total worst case ~$150 more over 3 years.

And a Tivo is not an investment. IT's an expense.


----------



## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

trip1eX said:


> And a Tivo is not an investment. IT's an expense.


If buying a TiVo saves you money over the long run, then it is an investment. Your return on investment is the money you save over renting the cable company's DVR.


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

tarheelblue32 said:


> If buying a TiVo saves you money over the long run, then it is an investment. Your return on investment is the money you save over renting the cable company's DVR.


I think you have been brainwashed by the great American Marketing Machine. Spending money on a consumer product is not an investment, it is an expenditure. Under your logic spending $500 on a prostitute instead of $1000 on a higher cost one, becomes an "investment" because it cost you less  - I think not.


----------



## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

atmuscarella said:


> I think you have been brainwashed by the great American Marketing Machine. Spending money on a consumer product is not an investment, it is an expenditure. Under your logic spending $500 on a prostitute instead of $1000 on a higher cost one, becomes an "investment" because it cost you less  - I think not.


No, it would be more like if you were spending $1,000 a month on prostitutes, and instead you were able to buy a realistic sex robot for $20,000 so you no longer have to hire prostitutes.

But let's use another example. If a business that uses $1,000 of electricity off the grid decides to *invest* $50,000 in solar panels so it no longer has to buy electricity off the grid. That is still a capital investment, even though it is only reducing its expenses rather than generating a profit on its own.


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

The drift in this thread is taking a most interesting turn. Hookers and sexbots!


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

atmuscarella said:


> I think you have been brainwashed by the great American Marketing Machine. Spending money on a consumer product is not an investment, it is an expenditure. Under your logic spending $500 on a prostitute instead of $1000 on a higher cost one, becomes an "investment" because it cost you less  - I think not.


I will have to think on that one... It is cheaper for the same outcome.


----------



## fred2 (Jan 20, 2006)

waynomo said:


> The drift in this thread is taking a most interesting turn. Hookers and sexbots!


Can I merely add:


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

tarheelblue32 said:


> No, it would be more like if you were spending $1,000 a month on prostitutes, and instead you were able to buy a realistic sex robot for $20,000 so you no longer have to hire prostitutes.
> 
> But let's use another example. If a business that uses $1,000 of electricity off the grid decides to *invest* $50,000 in solar panels so it no longer has to buy electricity off the grid. That is still a capital investment, even though it is only reducing its expenses rather than generating a profit on its own.


I don't disagree with your examples of how spending money in a certain way (buying a TiVo or solar panels) may reduce one's cost to obtain a wanted product (a DVR or electricity) versus other methods of obtaining those products (renting DVR from cable provider or buying electricity from an electric company).

However using the words "Invest/ing" or "Investment" when it comes to a consumer purchase is a miss use of the words and was started as away for marketers to make spending money sound less like spending money and therefor more acceptable.

General definitions (as the words pertain to money): 
Invest: To put (money) to use, by purchase or expenditure, in something offering potential profitable returns, as interest, income, or appreciation in value.​Investment: The investing of money or capital in order to gain profitable returns, as interest, income, or appreciation in value.​
I will concede at this point that marketing has successfully gotten many/most? people to accept many forms of consumer spending as some type of "investment" as it does help many people feel better (gives them a justification) about spending money.


----------



## gigaguy (Aug 30, 2013)

Thanks for the input. I used Sony DHG DVRs for 7-8 years but in 2013 I tried out a used Premiere ($75) w/slide and then added an unused, boxed XL4. (I got the $99 PLS on the used Premiere when I set up the lifetimed XL4, which was a steal! @ $225 and is still under warr.- all for $450 total outlay. all from craigslist.

I'm considering selling a Premiere and getting a Roamio, which will cost a lot more than the Premieres did so I was wondering Tivo's future. The big Tivo discounts and the recent Mini deal had me wondering why the drops in pricing.

Not sure I want to spend another $500 or more, have to see what a used P4 basic with lifetime may sell for, maybe $200-250? It has a 1TB WD ext HDD on it.


----------



## Sixto (Sep 16, 2005)

I thought the same a year ago. What if, what if.

As I look back, now just noticing that I activated all 7 boxes these two weeks a year ago, it was a fabulous decision. 

FiOS/Roamio has been A+, and I'm a hard grader.

Just perfect, and with each of these recent releases it gets better.


----------



## Kingpcgeek (Feb 6, 2012)

CableCards are not going anywhere considering that seven years ago the FCC mandated that all new cables boxes must use a CableCard. You rent a DVR from the cable company or buy a TiVo, they are going to use the same CableCard.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

tarheelblue32 said:


> If buying a TiVo saves you money over the long run, then it is an investment.


I don't think that's the definition of investment.



tarheelblue32 said:


> Your return on investment is the money you save over renting the cable company's DVR.


Your return on investment is negative on a Tivo.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

trip1eX said:


> I don't think that's the definition of investment.
> 
> Your return on investment is negative on a Tivo.


If one purchased a TiVo to make or save a lot of money don't do it, one should purchases a TiVo for the interface (UI) and the Mini (for some the streaming also) The best alterative to TiVo is the cable co.s DVR and for some it may be the best solution, but for me and many on this Forum we like TiVo over the cable co DVR for many reasons not related just to money.


----------



## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

A tivo can be a least cost DVR, but it is a cost. It is not necessarily the least cost DVR in all scenarios (OTA and certain cablecos), which it part of the problem of promoting the service.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

jrtroo said:


> A tivo can be a least cost DVR, but it is a cost. It is not necessarily the least cost DVR in all scenarios (OTA and certain cablecos), which it part of the problem of promoting the service.


As I just posted. money should not be the main reason one would purchase a TiVo, it the UI, expandable, streaming, other apps, etc.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Even if the Comcast merger does not go through and TWC somehow is allowed to kill CableCard support, the TiVo would have paid for itself, and you could still sell it to a Comcast user, or if it's the base model, for OTA.


----------



## sar840t2 (Mar 1, 2003)

I'd be more inclined to expect (maybe hope) Cable Companies (rather than cards) go away .


----------



## pppingme (Apr 21, 2012)

trip1eX said:


> What are your other dvr choices? IT's the cable co dvr, WMC or Tivo afaik.


MythTV


----------



## bob61 (Apr 23, 2002)

With the path towards streaming videos there's a good chance cable cards won't be needed in next few years as broadcasting as we know it today won't exist either. Think about it. 

Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk


----------



## buckyswider (Aug 31, 2003)

or a meteor could hit the earth. content would be hard to come by after that.


----------



## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

If by "few" bob61 means twenty years or so, I'm sure he is quite correct. If on the other hand he means two or three years, he's looney-tunes!


----------



## kherr (Aug 1, 2006)

I bought my Tivos because of the better experience first and any cost savings over the life of the product vs renting from Charter second .... Maybe that's just me.


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Just clicked in to see how this Topic could have gotten 25 responses. Now I know. It's the Sexbots.


----------



## gigaguy (Aug 30, 2013)

bareyb said:


> Just clicked in to see how this Topic could have gotten 25 responses. Now I know. It's the Sexbots.


Don't get that reference. anyway, seems logical to me to discuss the future, lots of changes in the video delivery arena. HBO going internet option next year, CBS already is, all the i-Devices/boxes, remote and streaming, cord cutters - and I know the cablecos will do whatever they need to hold profits. Cablecos never liked cablecards, and want you to rent their boxes, services..


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

gigaguy said:


> Don't get that reference. anyway, seems logical to me to discuss the future, lots of changes in the video delivery arena. HBO going internet option next year, all the i-Devices/boxes, remote and streaming, cord cutters - and I know the cablecos will do whatever they need to hold share and compete. Cablecos never liked cablecards, and want you to use their boxes, services..


Hope and pray that Streaming doesn't become the defacto standard. You're not going to like what the content providers are going to do to you once they get complete control over your viewing experience.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

gigaguy said:


> Don't get that reference. anyway, seems logical to me to discuss the future, lots of changes in the video delivery arena. HBO going internet option next year, CBS already is, all the i-Devices/boxes, remote and streaming, cord cutters - and I know the cablecos will do whatever they need to hold profits. Cablecos never liked cablecards, and want you to rent their boxes, services..


Except Comcast who seems to love TiVo. Maybe they are smart enough to realize that they have a few more customers because of TiVo and in spite of their own hardware, or maybe they just realize that enough TiVo users buy VOD that they gave them all the opportunity to shovel more money at Comcast via their TiVo remote.


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Bigg said:


> Except Comcast who seems to love TiVo. Maybe they are smart enough to realize that they have a few more customers because of TiVo and in spite of their own hardware, or maybe they just realize that enough TiVo users buy VOD that they gave them all the opportunity to shovel more money at Comcast via their TiVo remote.


I can tell you for sure that that is the ONLY reason I switched from DirecTV to Comcast. Because they supported retail TiVo Boxes. If they dropped TiVo I'd very likely drop them.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

bareyb said:


> Hope and pray that Streaming doesn't become the defacto standard. You're not going to like what the content providers are going to do to you once they get complete control over your viewing experience.


Yeah exactly. With HBO it won't matter, but with any other channel that has commercials it will suck.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

bareyb said:


> I can tell you for sure that that is the ONLY reason I switched from DirecTV to Comcast. Because they supported retail TiVo Boxes. If they dropped TiVo I'd very likely drop them.


Same. I'd use the Genie over any other MSO-supplied box. The only exception would be if I end up moving to eastern MA, I might consider RCN if it was available, since they have TiVo.


----------



## wblynch (Aug 13, 2003)

OTA baby !


----------



## fred2 (Jan 20, 2006)

wblynch said:


> OTA baby !


I've never had cable so I would have to agree. Also, as to Tivo's future, I recall the same discussion when I got a Series 2 whatever, I don't know how many years ago. They seem to be still kicking up the dust except on that Series 2 which is lodged in a pile of it in the basement!

Speaking of "how many years ago", is there somewhere on our account info to find out when we first joined the "club?"


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

fred2 said:


> Speaking of "how many years ago", is there somewhere on our account info to find out when we first joined the "club?"


Log into your account at Tivo.com and look at the activation date for your original TiVo.

We took advantage of the lifetime transfer offer to move it from our original S1's to 2 S3 OLEDs so our S3's actually show the original activation dates of 6/18/2000 and 5/8/2002. The S1's show an activation date that matches the transfer date as they received 1 year of free service as part of the offer.

Scott


----------



## fred2 (Jan 20, 2006)

HerronScott said:


> Log into your account at Tivo.com and look at the activation date for your original TiVo.
> 
> We took advantage of the lifetime transfer offer to move it from our original S1's to 2 S3 OLEDs so our S3's actually show the original activation dates of 6/18/2000 and 5/8/2002. The S1's show an activation date that matches the transfer date as they received 1 year of free service as part of the offer.
> 
> Scott


Thanks: 05/10/2007 (not as long as I thought!) - OH, that's WRONG. Since it shows my Series 3 was activated more than a year earlier than that. And I had the 2 at least a couple of years. Oh, well ..........


----------



## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

gigaguy said:


> I know the cablecos will do whatever they need to hold profits. Cablecos never liked cablecards, and want you to rent their boxes, services..


I pay the cable company over $100/month to subscribe to their TV services precisely because a CableCard allows me to bring my own device.

I'm sure they'd prefer that I lease one of their $20/month DVRs instead of leasing one of their $2/month CableCards, but it seems stupid for them to risk losing my $100/month business by taking away the CableCard option.

That's not in the best interest of their profits!

I'm excited for the future changes in the video delivery arena, but with Cox Cable having recently made a big investment in their relatively new 6-tuner DVR, I don't see the current method of video delivery completely disappearing anytime soon. One that note, I'm not worried about the amount of money I've sunk into my TiVos. And if I were just getting into TiVo now, I'm not sure I'd be worried either.

10/16/2001 for my Series1 box.


----------



## dfreybur (Jan 27, 2006)

bareyb said:


> Hope and pray that Streaming doesn't become the defacto standard. You're not going to like what the content providers are going to do to you once they get complete control over your viewing experience.


That would be a feature request, but I tried that back in the Series 3 days and I know nothing will ever come of it - At the time it was common to have a network connection that could not quite maintain a stream. So click on a video from a streaming vendor and buffer it into Now Playing. Let me watch it and delete my copy later. Have the copy automatically delete if that's what it takes.

I know why it's not going to happen. Legal issues of copying content that was not broadcast.

So what I want now is not listing Hulu and whatever in menus. It's *actual* integration with all of those stream vendors. Say I want a Season Pass to West Wing (MASH, Babylon 5, Mister Ed, whatever). I go through all the menus to find it and I mark that I want a Season Pass for it. When I go to Now Playing it lists West Wing. It remembers which season, which episode and how far into that episode I am so I don't have to navigate a dozen menus just to get to a show I want.

That would be an enormous market differentiator - Only have to find a show once in its custom menus per stream vendor. As good as the Season Pass feature for series once it knew how to follow schedule changes. By the way now that we have a Roamio I love that it now knows how to follow a series across channels! Do that across stream vendors and it would rule!


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

pppingme said:


> MythTV


If your stuff is not copy protected, sure. Otherwise it's worthless.


----------



## monkeydust (Dec 12, 2004)

I've got a Plus and a Mini but I'm not buying anything else until they offer 4k support.


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

LOL, seriously? You're going to be waiting a long time then given that you won't be able to record any 4k over cable/OTA for many years. 

You're waiting for the wrong boxes to get updated, go Roku etc. when they do 4k streaming.


----------



## monkeydust (Dec 12, 2004)

slowbiscuit said:


> LOL, seriously? You're going to be waiting a long time then given that you won't be able to record any 4k over cable/OTA for many years.
> 
> You're waiting for the wrong boxes to get updated, go Roku etc. when they do 4k streaming.


The technology is already here so I would be very surprised if we don't see it in a TiVo device within the next two years. It isn't just the TV recording/streaming, it is the apps for Netflix and Amazon that interest me. Amazon will support 4k streaming by the end of the year and Netflix already does. I use the Netflix app on my Samsung 65" 4k TV to stream 4k content since my Mini does not support it. I would rather just use the apps on my Tivo so I would be getting all content from my Tivo and not have to switch back and forth between the TV's apps and Tivo's content.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

monkeydust said:


> The technology is already here so I would be very surprised if we don't see it in a TiVo device within the next two years. It isn't just the TV recording/streaming, it is the apps for Netflix and Amazon that interest me. Amazon will support 4k streaming by the end of the year and Netflix already does. I use the Netflix app on my Samsung 65" 4k TV to stream 4k content since my Mini does not support it. I would rather just use the apps on my Tivo so I would be getting all content from my Tivo and not have to switch back and forth between the TV's apps and Tivo's content.


And you can see a big difference on your 4K HDTV using Netflix 4K streaming as opposed to the normal 1080p/24 ?


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

monkeydust said:


> The technology is already here so I would be very surprised if we don't see it in a TiVo device within the next two years. It isn't just the TV recording/streaming, it is the apps for Netflix and Amazon that interest me. Amazon will support 4k streaming by the end of the year and Netflix already does. I use the Netflix app on my Samsung 65" 4k TV to stream 4k content since my Mini does not support it. I would rather just use the apps on my Tivo so I would be getting all content from my Tivo and not have to switch back and forth between the TV's apps and Tivo's content.


They've already annnounced an Ultra HD TiVo.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> They've already annnounced an Ultra HD TiVo.


I guess that true, see http://www.broadcom.com/press/release.php?id=s870350


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

dfreybur said:


> That would be a feature request, but I tried that back in the Series 3 days and I know nothing will ever come of it - At the time it was common to have a network connection that could not quite maintain a stream. So click on a video from a streaming vendor and buffer it into Now Playing. Let me watch it and delete my copy later. Have the copy automatically delete if that's what it takes.
> 
> I know why it's not going to happen. Legal issues of copying content that was not broadcast.
> 
> ...


TiVo already has universal search, and it seems OK, although I don't really use it myself. I don't want my TiVo deciding not to record something because I *could* stream it instead of having a good local copy of it.


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

Hmmmm.......

My Tivos show activation dates of:

2004
2007

How does one get a lifetime transfer offer? Just call and ask?



HerronScott said:


> Log into your account at Tivo.com and look at the activation date for your original TiVo.
> 
> We took advantage of the lifetime transfer offer to move it from our original S1's to 2 S3 OLEDs so our S3's actually show the original activation dates of 6/18/2000 and 5/8/2002. The S1's show an activation date that matches the transfer date as they received 1 year of free service as part of the offer.
> 
> Scott


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

DawnW said:


> Hmmmm.......
> 
> My Tivos show activation dates of:
> 
> ...


Lifetime transfers were only offered for very early Series 1 owners... You cannot get a lifetime service transfer. HerronScott used his one and only transfer and cannot use it again - no lifetime transfers.

What you can do is sell your older lifetime tivo on eBay. Lifetime S3 should bring $200+ and Premieres start at ~ $300 and up depending on number of tuners.


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

Do the Premiers work with OTA and Tivo Minis? Or is that only the Roamio that works with the minis?

Thanks. that does answer the lifetime question.

Truth is, we have 2 S3s and they work great. Not sure we need anything more, although I have thought of just getting a 3rd unit.

Dawn



bradleys said:


> Lifetime transfers were only offered for very early Series 1 owners... You cannot get a lifetime service transfer. HerronScott used his one and only transfer and cannot use it again - no lifetime transfers.
> 
> What you can do is sell your older lifetime tivo on eBay. Lifetime S3 should bring $200+ and Premieres start at ~ $300 and up depending on number of tuners.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

DawnW said:


> Hmmmm.......
> 
> How does one get a lifetime transfer offer? Just call and ask?


This was a one time transfer offer from TiVo when the first S3's came out in 2006/2007. They were not offering any lifetime subscriptions at the time and there was no sign at the time that it would come back so the $199 transfer offer induced me to upgrade to the expensive S3's ($600) even though we didn't have a HD TV yet. 

We've gotten our money's worth since both are coming up on 8 years old and still working well with Comcast.

Scott


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

DawnW said:


> Do the Premiers work with OTA and Tivo Minis? Or is that only the Roamio that works with the minis?
> 
> Thanks. that does answer the lifetime question.
> 
> ...


That is a great question - the answer is both yes, and no... 

The two tuner Premiere will work with OTA but not the Mini, the 4 tuner Premiere host Mini's, but not work with OTA...

The issue is number of tuners - the 2 tuner Premiere is actually a 4 tuner box with two dedicated to cable card and two dedicated to OTA, the 4 tuner Premiere has all 4 tuners dedicated to cable. And TiVo has made the decision that two tuners are not enough to support the Mini ecosystem.

There is a huge difference in usability between the Roamio and your S3 TiVo's - if they are both lifetimed units, you can sell the pair for $400 and be a long way toward modernizing your experience.


----------



## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

bradleys said:


> the 2 tuner Premiere is actually a 4 tuner box with two dedicated to cable card and two dedicated to OTA


Are you sure about that? If the 2-tuner Premiere really had 4 tuners, then it seems to me that when you use it for OTA and cable at the same time that it should be able to utilize all 4 tuners, but it can still only use 2.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Are you sure about that? If the 2-tuner Premiere really had 4 tuners, then it seems to me that when you use it for OTA and cable at the same time that it should be able to utilize all 4 tuners, but it can still only use 2.


I have over simplified it - but yes, the chipset supports 4 tuners and they are segmented OTA / Cable and has been that way since the S3 days. It is the reason the 4 tuner Premiere does not support OTA and why you have to select between OTA vs Cable on the base Roamio.


----------



## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

bradleys said:


> I have over simplified it - but yes, the chipset supports 4 tuners and they are segmented OTA / Cable and has been that way since the S3 days. It is the reason the 4 tuner Premiere does not support OTA and why you have to select between OTA vs Cable on the base Roamio.


Still a bit over-simplified. There are many chips involved in the tuning and conversion to what goes to the SoC CPU. The CPU always was, and always will be a limiting factor, no matter how many tuners the discrete tuner chips can support. IIRC, TiVo has also had bad timing in selecting their discrete chipsets and SoC CPUs, always winding up with last year's model/revision (or intentionally going for cheaper).

Until the Roamio, TiVos have been limited and throttled, out of the gate, brand new. Could the Roamio have supported mix/match of cable & OTA at the same time? Sure, but it would have cost them more, and then we'd have more complaining about the cost of buying a TiVo, or upgrading to a newer model.

If I'm completely honest, the SoC CPU of the Roamios are also limiting them, or the ones with gigabit ethernet would transfer much faster. A few software revisions have shown TiVo has had some difficulties balancing allocation of precious processing cycles, even with the Roamio.


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

Thank you!

Yeah, you are right......if I sell both.

I still need to fully understand what a Mini does and how it works. Will whatever TV I have the Mini hooked up to need to be hooked up to an antenna as well or can it stand alone and just show the TV programs recorded?

We have two TVs hooked up to the antenna and then 2 other TVs that only have Roku boxes.

Dawn



bradleys said:


> That is a great question - the answer is both yes, and no...
> 
> The two tuner Premiere will work with OTA but not the Mini, the 4 tuner Premiere host Mini's, but not work with OTA...
> 
> ...


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

bradleys said:


> That is a great question - the answer is both yes, and no...
> 
> The two tuner Premiere will work with OTA but not the Mini, the 4 tuner Premiere host Mini's, but not work with OTA...
> 
> ...


Good post. :up:


----------



## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

HD DVR from Cox is $20/mnth. horrible interface , small hard drive and all around crappy product. My Premieres are $5-$7 less per month and are better in every way. I see it as paying less for a better experience.


----------

