# Once Upon A Time - "Skin Deep" - S01E12



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Well well... now it's all out in the open. Except she doesn't remember everything: he did the "please" thing twice this episode and she didn't react except to do exactly what he said.

"And all curses can be broken. A kiss borne of true love will do it." Is that a true generalization or is she lying and it just works for Belle's situation? That might be the way out of the show's big curse, but who has to kiss whom? 

I kinda rolled my eyes when I saw "Belle" in the hospital cell (though I doubted she was dead). Why would you keep her alive in either realm? There or Here, she's nothing but a liability to the Queen/Regina and a source of goodness to Rumpy/Gold. I know: because it's in the script. 

I also wasn't sure where the Regina got the flower/Gaston. I looked for it when the Queen visited Rumpy, but it wasn't on the big table. She must have gotten it, brought it Here, and kept it until now? Odd.

Pawing thru IMDb, I found a little more info on The Stranger (tho not from this episode):


Spoiler



It looks like his name is August W. Booth, though the next episode calls him "Stranger / August W. Booth". Most of the characters are listed like "Evil Queen / Regina Mills", but I think he just has "two names" Here.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

martinp13 said:


> Why would you keep her alive in either realm? There or Here, she's nothing but a liability to the Queen/Regina and a source of goodness to Rumpy/Gold.


That's not true at all. She's the Queen's way of breaking Rumpy's power once and for all. And now she knows it will work.


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## vikingguy (Aug 12, 2005)

That was a great episode I fell for her being dead because we never seen her in storybrooke. Now we got a few of the missing pieces of the puzzle. Mr. Gold knows for sure and so does the queen. Also the queen and rumple were rivals in fairytale land. And why he wants to get back at regina/queen. It just sucks we have to wait another week for a new episode. And god knows how many weeks till another awesome rumple/Mr. Gold episode.

The reason she is alive is so regina can use her to get what she wants out of Mr. Gold/rumple. The guy will do anything to get her back. Regina can play that card when she really needs it.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That's not true at all. She's the Queen's way of breaking Rumpy's power once and for all. And now she knows it will work.


On equal footing, it probably would, because no one ever calls The Queen or Regina on any BS she says. She says something, and everyone believes it for the truth. But Gold has tricks up his sleeve: "please", Emma, probably The Stranger.


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## Cereal_Killer (Jan 5, 2007)

No longer is this simply a battle between good and evil, it has become a battle of wits between evil and pure unadulterated evil! The queen is just rotten to the core. She imprisons people for years in a psych ward with no visitors, she lies with impunity.

I just realized why Rumple/Gold was so harsh and then vicious to the van driver/theft. Gold was beating him like he owned him. He was Belles father. Rumple blames him for making Belle commit suicide, not knowing the queen just made up that lie! 

In other news, David/the Prince needs to grow a pair and either commit to Mary Margaret or his wife. Emma still hasnt moved further along in believing the curse, but the Regina/Gold scenes were riveting


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Yeah, I found that beating a tad... vigorous for the 8-9 slot.
I understood his frustration and anger and Carlyle acted the hell out of it but the brutality did take me out of the moment a bit.

If I loved Rumple/Mr. Gold before (and I did) I love him even more now- vulnerable villains, yum! And he and the EQ have mad chemistry, so bring it on! This was my favorite episode since Snow Falls, and is now my favorite ever.

A little odd to see Nurse Ratched and Chief working the looney bin in Storybrooke, though.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

I didn't notice, but did they say "Only one knows" in the opening? Because that is clearly now at least two.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Game of Thorns! LOL.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

tiams said:


> Game of Thorns! LOL.


Yeah, that totally made up for the uninspired "Mr. French."


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

That was one of my favorite episodes. Things that I loved:

I have always liked Rumplestilsken/Mr. Gold. But I really enjoyed seeing him so some vuleralbility, even after he is evil.

I thougt the Emily DeRavin did a great job as Belle. She played the part as a strong woman.

Does Regina now control Mr. Gold as she knows his (real) name?

Game of Thorns! LOL!

Loved the nods to the original (Disney) story: Maurice, Gaston, the rose. 

Rudy/Red - Always good to see her.

Still not sure where the MM/David story line is going, however, I think the "Kiss cures all curses" will come in to play soon. Emma's kiss made Grahm start to remember, maybe MM & David need to find true love (and not just their current infactuation) to end the curse? I have always thought their love was the key to breaking the curse.

Wasn't Ashley 18 when she had the baby? Appently Storybrooke has different drinking laws?


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## Waldorf (Oct 4, 2002)

loubob57 said:


> I didn't notice, but did they say "Only one knows" in the opening? Because that is clearly now at least two.


Depends on what you define as "knowing". The whole show started with the premise that Henry "knows" because of the book. But in the intro, the "only one knows" is overlaid with a video clip of Regina, so that's been a little misleading from the get-go.

So Henry told Emma, they told Archie/Jiminy as well as Mary Margaret/Snow who then told Mr. Glass . . . It's now the worst-kept secret in Storybrooke.

If you define "knowing" as having actual memories of their "true identities", then things are a bit more limited to Regina and Gold (with Huntsman, Charming, and Snow having momentary flashes?)


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TriBruin said:


> Still not sure where the MM/David story line is going, however, I think the "Kiss cures all curses" will come in to play soon. Emma's kiss made Grahm start to remember, maybe MM & David need to find true love (and not just their current infactuation) to end the curse? I have always thought their love was the key to breaking the curse.


That whole story has, in my opinion, been badly mishandled. I guess it's supposed to be all sadness and romantic longing, but the way they're behaving, they just seem like a couple of sleaze-bags to me.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That whole story has, in my opinion, been badly mishandled. I guess it's supposed to be all sadness and romantic longing, but the way they're behaving, they just seem like a couple of sleaze-bags to me.


Agree that it has been very badly written, but I keep reminding myself that it is the curse causing David's behavior and not an absence of integrity. I still hold out a tiny sliver of hope that the resolution of the triangle makes sense.

He _is_ Prince Charming, after all- he can't be this big a cad, he just can't!


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## Cereal_Killer (Jan 5, 2007)

TriBruin said:


> ...Does Regina now control Mr. Gold as she knows his (real) name?...


The name itself is not special; it simply proves to Regina that she isnt the only one who knows about the curse.Gold could only know his true name if, and only if, he remembers his fairy tale past.

He cant fake it anymore saying things like whatever do you mean?, when Regina asks him a curse related question..

Now the battle is on between evil and eviler. May the best man (or woman or demon) win.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

loubob57 said:


> I didn't notice, but did they say "Only one knows" in the opening? Because that is clearly now at least two.


I didn't hear the voiceover this week at all, someone can correct me if I've just forgotten and it was there.
If it was removed, I'd almost say for sure it's because they now have both Rumpl and the Queen aware and now we know they know.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

dianebrat said:


> If it was removed, I'd almost say for sure it's because they now have both Rumpl and the Queen aware and now we know they know.


Except nothing's changed in terms of who knows.

I suspect even more than before that they're referring to Rumpy, because he (and not she) knows that Emma is The One.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Why didn't Rumple just say "give me my chipped cup back please."? Doesn't she have to do anything he asks if he says please?


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

TriBruin said:


> Loved the nods to the original (Disney) story: Maurice, Gaston, the rose.
> 
> *Rudy/Red *- Always good to see her.


Isn't it Ruby/Red?

And as far as shout outs to Disney's Beauty & the Beast, there was the giant head of the Beast when Belle and Rumplestiltskin first walked into his home. I also thought that the stained glass graphics might have been from the opening storybook sequence of the animated version.

I had to laugh when Rumple answered the door and was confronted by a sword-wielding Gaston with the rose and quickly turned him into a puff of purple smoke. LOL!

This was my favorite episode by far.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

getreal said:


> Isn't it Ruby/Red?
> 
> And as far as shout outs to Disney's Beauty & the Beast, there was the giant head of the Beast when Belle and Rumplestiltskin first walked into his home. I also thought that the stained glass graphics might have been from the opening storybook sequence of the animated version.
> 
> ...


Hrmmmm... didn't Rumple turn Gaston _into _the rose? Now I gotta rewatch.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

martinp13 said:


> Hrmmmm... didn't Rumple turn Gaston _into _the rose? Now I gotta rewatch.


Yep, big poof of purple smoke and Gaston was gone but the rose was where he was standing.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

loubob57 said:


> Yep, big poof of purple smoke and Gaston was gone but the rose was where he was standing.


Which is now in our world, in the hospital annex where Belle/? is.

Although I winced a bit when Rumple handed her the rose and she snipped off the bottom couple of inches before putting it in the vase.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Cearbhaill said:


> Agree that it has been very badly written, but I keep reminding myself that it is the curse causing David's behavior and not an absence of integrity. I still hold out a tiny sliver of hope that the resolution of the triangle makes sense.
> 
> He _is_ Prince Charming, after all- he can't be this big a cad, he just can't!


I think that it's a soap opera rule that it's ok to cheat if it's with your true love and you're being kept apart.



Spoiler



Although it looks like from the previews for next week, the wife finds out





Cereal_Killer said:


> Now the battle is on between evil and eviler. May the best man (or woman or demon) win.


Hopefully, Emma's smart enough to play the two against each other.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Jane Espenson (who wrote this episode) did a chat with fans about last nights' events plus a few minor teases for future episodes. 
The transcript is here; some of what she said was pretty interesting.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Cearbhaill said:


> Jane Espenson (who wrote this episode) did a chat with fans about last nights' events plus a few minor teases for future episodes.
> The transcript is here; some of what she said was pretty interesting.


Comment on the transcript:


Spoiler



So Regina KNOWS about the 'please' clause? Sure doesn't look like it to me. She always has a look on her face that says "I'm going to do what he asks but I don't know why."


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Except nothing's changed in terms of who knows.
> 
> I suspect even more than before that they're referring to Rumpy, because he (and not she) knows that Emma is The One.


So the Queen knows that the baby was put in the wardrobe and disappeared, but she doesn't know that her name is Emma or that she can break the curse? Still, when no one has come to town all this time, and now the clock started and the other guy came to town--she should be putting it together.

Does she know that she came from fairy tale land, but not remember everything that happened there? Rumple told her about the Please thing, right? Why wouldn't she remember it?

I've never seen or read Beauty and the Beast, so some of these things are sailing over my head. In the story, wasn't the Beast just ugly, but not evil? This seems like a big difference.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Cearbhaill said:


> Jane Espenson (who wrote this episode) did a chat with fans about last nights' events plus a few minor teases for future episodes.
> The transcript is here; some of what she said was pretty interesting.


Ugh. They need to learn how to use CoverItLive and better moderate the questions. They just let everything flow through, and it was hard for me to follow. It was also probably very irritating for Jane to respond to questions, since by the time she had typed up her response to one comment, 15 others had flown by.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

TriBruin said:


> Loved the nods to the original (Disney) story: Maurice, Gaston, the rose.


Don't forget the gold gown that Belle was wearing and the chipped cup. How much of that stuff (such as the names of Gaston and her father) was original to the Disney version and how much was from whatever original source material?


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

For anyone who skipped the spoiler from a few episodes back, you can feel free to read it now. Basically all they said was that they would eventually reveal whether or not Rumpelstiltskin remembered. Well, now they have. And for anyone who was still doubting that the Queen remembered, you can't deny that anymore either. 

Although I'm surprised that the Queen hadn't realized that Rumpel remembered until now, given how cunning she's been with everything else. I don't know if there was something in the curse clouding her judgment, or maybe just her ego.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> That whole story has, in my opinion, been badly mishandled. I guess it's supposed to be all sadness and romantic longing, but the way they're behaving, they just seem like a couple of sleaze-bags to me.


I actually like that aspect. It raises the question of how we define cheating. Technically Charming is cheating on Snow White by being with Midas' daughter. But he thinks she is his wife, so even though it isn't real, is he cheating on his fake wife by being with his real wife?

So while on the surface it seems sleazy, in looking deeper these are two confused people who are having trouble reconciling their true feelings with their fake ones. They aren't in that much different of a mental state than schizophrenics.



martinp13 said:


> I kinda rolled my eyes when I saw "Belle" in the hospital cell (though I doubted she was dead). Why would you keep her alive in either realm? There or Here, she's nothing but a liability to the Queen/Regina and a source of goodness to Rumpy/Gold.


I don't think Belle was alive in the other realm. I think the Queen was telling Rumpelstiltskin the truth. If she had been lying, he would have found out. And there would have been no purpose to holding Belle captive without him knowing. She is only useful to the Queen for the feelings she evokes in Rumpel.

If Belle had been alive, I think the Queen would have just told Rumpel that her father was holding her captive so that he could come to her rescue, and then they could be together perhaps long enough for him to believe she actually loved him.

Which then begs the question, why is she alive in this world? Could that have been Rumpel's ultimate plan? Rumpel told Charming's brother's father that he couldn't bring Charming's brother back to life. But what if there was a way to bring people back to life that involved extremely dark magic, magic so dark that it would ultimately end up cursing the caster?

So Rumpel covered up his real spell inside a powerful curse, and put the Queen in a position where she would want to use it. With Belle alive again, they could be together, and the Queen would be cursed so he would perhaps not mind losing his powers.

It's a win-win for him, but only if Emma is able to break the curse. Perhaps that's why he set things up for her to eventually come to Storybrooke, and has been helping her since she got there.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

No chance a dead person in fairy tale land is alive in Storybrooke. Belle is definitely still alive. The Queen was just waiting for the right moment to make her move.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Zevida said:


> No chance a dead person in fairy tale land is alive in Storybrooke.


This. Definitely this.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Dead is dead.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Where was the dirty squirrel with Claire in the psych ward??????


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

robojerk said:


> Dead is dead.


Correct.

But what's surprising is that Rumple has no clue in either universe that she is alive. He seems to know everything else or are they going to give us the tired love is blind excuse?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Family said:


> But what's surprising is that Rumple has no clue in either universe that she is alive. He seems to know everything else or are they going to give us the tired love is blind excuse?


I think he only knows what he finds out...that is, he doesn't have a magical ability to learn stuff, just to retain knowledge when everybody else's has been wiped out. And he never knew she was still alive, therefore he has no way of remembering it.


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think he only knows what he finds out...that is, he doesn't have a magical ability to learn stuff, just to retain knowledge when everybody else's has been wiped out. And he never knew she was still alive, therefore he has no way of remembering it.


I have trouble remembering specifics so maybe you're right. But he seemed to know that Emma would be inside that house at precisely the right moment when she rescued the Queen from the fire.


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## Cereal_Killer (Jan 5, 2007)

stellie93 said:


> ...Does she know that she came from fairy tale land, but not remember everything that happened there? Rumple told her about the Please thing, right? Why wouldn't she remember it?...


Maybe she does remember.
She thought the Please thing was a silly request back in fairy tale land and probably doesnt realize the ramification of it now in StoryBrooke.

Do you notice when Gold says "please", she just does what is asked and then continues on as if nothing happened?

Its just like shes been hypnotized for a second.

After she does what is asked, she never complains or says Ill get you Gold, you A-hole, for making me do that! because she doesnt remember what just happened.

Also, have you noticed that Gold never says the Please request on something important, just on minor things like sit please or get out of my way please?

I think it's because magic has its cost. Had he said "give me the chipped cup please", I think Regina would have dropped it!


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## oscarfish (Mar 2, 2009)

Sorry to rehash this, but I'm still not sure who is the one that knows the whole story. If I had to pick one, I'd pick Gold before Regina. The reason I say that is that he knows that "please" works on Regina, but she doesn't seem to know that it's happening to her. Just because she has all sorts of evil plans in the works in Storybrooke doesn't mean she knows that she came from fairytale land. She is only know starting to remember, just like everyone else, because of contact with Emma.

I'm wondering if certain dead people in fairytale land show up in the asylum on Storybrook. I liked the theory from BitbyBlit that this was Rumpelstiltskins end game, but it doesn't look like Gold knows about the asylum.

Do we know how Rumpelstiltskin turned gold and so evil? We know how he acquired that dark lord type power, but the story ended there. Or what happened to his son.

Man I like this show. Please please please, if there is any good left in the world, do not Battlestar Galactica me on this. Yes, BG is now a verb.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I think the question of who is being referred to in "only one knows the truth" is now moot because obviously both Rumple and Regina know about Fairy Tale Land (FTL from now on). I think Regina knows everything except the "please" clause. She knows to keep Snow and Charming apart. She knows the teacup is meaningful to Rumple and that Belle should stay locked away. She hid Snow's casket. She has a secret room in the cemetery with the heart's of people stored that she used to kill the Huntsman (not sure I'll ever forgive the writers for that). I think she knows everything.

What's not clear is why this life is better for her than life in FTL. Yes, she is here, keeping everyone from having a happy ending. And she gets to wield a different kind of power. Just seems to me like FTL gives her a lot more access to magic. Maybe she just likes central heating.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

oscarfish said:


> I'm wondering if certain dead people in fairytale land show up in the asylum on Storybrook. I liked the theory from BitbyBlit that this was Rumpelstiltskins end game, but it doesn't look like Gold knows about the asylum.


I'm thinking dead in Fairy Tale Land equals dead in Storybrooke- I don't see any way around that.
Evil Queen was obviously lying to Rumple about Belle being dead.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Zevida said:


> What's not clear is why this life is better for her than life in FTL. Yes, she is here, keeping everyone from having a happy ending. And she gets to wield a different kind of power. Just seems to me like FTL gives her a lot more access to magic. Maybe she just likes central heating.


In FTL, she has power, but everyone else is happy, and that makes her unhappy.

Here, she has power, everyone is less than happy (some because of happenstance but mostly because of her meddling), and that makes her supremely happy.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

I prefer Storybook & Storybrooke. 
Have we seen the Storybook Blue Fairy yet in Storybrooke?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

martinp13 said:


> In FTL, she has power, but everyone else is happy, and that makes her unhappy.
> 
> Here, she has power, everyone is less than happy (some because of happenstance but mostly because of her meddling), and that makes her supremely happy.


It's not just that.
Remember when they showed the Queen with her allies, preparing to cast the spell, she stated that they couldn't win in FTL because "Good always wins out".

So part of her solution was to bring everyone "here" where Evil can win.
(And as a bonus, Gold gets to live on comfort.)


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JYoung said:


> (And as a bonus, Gold gets to live on comfort.)


Plus he's pretty.

Well, he's not ugly.

OK, he's Robert Carlyle. But at least he's not Rumpelstiltskin!


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Plus he's pretty.
> 
> Well, he's not ugly.
> 
> OK, he's Robert Carlyle. But at least he's not Rumpelstiltskin!


Maybe not conventionally attractive but he was rockin' the hell out of those sunglasses the other night. 
Yowser :up:


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

I wondered if there's any significance to Gold's first name (in our world). I mean, who would answer to "what's your name?" with "Mr. X"?

Maybe something magical will happen if you repeat his first name? (Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice!!)


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

dtle said:


> I wondered if there's any significance to Gold's first name (in our world). I mean, who would answer to "what's your name?" with "Mr. X"?
> 
> Maybe something magical will happen if you repeat his first name? (Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice!!)


Maybe Regina doesn't have power over him in our world because here his name isn't Rumpelstiltskin, it's Mr. _____ Gold, and no one knows what goes in the blank.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Boy, is she gonna be pissed when she finds out it's "Rumpelstiltskin Gold"!


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Boy, is she gonna be pissed when she finds out it's "Rumpelstiltskin Gold"!


Could be Andrew, or Auric.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

If I were to fanwank an answer to the ONLY ONE KNOWS line in the opening, I would suggest that what the narrator means is, only "one person who is cursed knows the truth," and that one person is Rumple. The Evil Queen (TM) is not cursed, since she cast the spell that cursed everyone else. That she knows is because she is outside the curse, but in one of the early episodes, she even tells Rumple that he won't remember, and he seems flip about it. It must have been because he was aware of a back door in the specifics of the curse that allowed him to remember.

I think we all agree that the only one who can break the spell is Emma.

By the way, any ideas why IMDB lists Ginnifer Goodwin before Jennifer Morrison in the cast information for the show? Is Snow really the most important cast member?


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Church AV Guy said:


> If I were to fanwank an answer to the ONLY ONE KNOWS line in the opening, I would suggest that what the narrator means is, only "one person who is cursed knows the truth," and that one person is Rumple. The Evil Queen (TM) is not cursed, since she cast the spell that cursed everyone else. That she knows is because she is outside the curse, but in one of the early episodes, she even tells Rumple that he won't remember, and he seems flip about it. It must have been because he was aware of a back door in the specifics of the curse that allowed him to remember.
> 
> I think we all agree that the only one who can break the spell is Emma.
> 
> By the way, any ideas why IMDB lists Ginnifer Goodwin before Jennifer Morrison in the cast information for the show? Is Snow really the most important cast member?


First, we've had the discussion a million times, and the producers of the show confirmed they were referring to Regina with that line.

And it is now moot anyway, since it has been revealed that Rumple knows.

Ginnifer Goodwin is the top billed cast member, likely because she is the most recognizable name and the biggest "star" before the series began.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Zevida said:


> Ginnifer Goodwin is the top billed cast member, likely because she is the most recognizable name and the biggest "star" before the series began.


Credits are negotiated as part of the actors' contracts. That's why sometimes the biggest stars are found both at the beginning and end of the credits...Star A got lead billing; Star B refused to be behind Star A; so Star B gets a special credit at the end. "Starring Star A. A bunch of losers with crummy agents, listed individually. A bunch of even bigger losers who get lumped together two or three at a time. And Star B."


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

Zevida said:


> *First, we've had the discussion a million times*, and the producers of the show confirmed they were referring to Regina with that line.
> 
> And it is now moot anyway, since it has been revealed that Rumple knows.


Yeah, I shouldn't have even brought it up.

On the other hand, back to the show, Regina letting Emma take Henry for a 30 minute "visit" shows just how important the knowledge about whether or not Gold remembered Rumple was to her. She got the flower delivery man to rob Gold, got the leverage, and pried the information out of him. He certainly seemed reluctant to reveal it to her.

Why didn't he just ask for the cup back, PLEASE?

Mixing up the Valentine cards is a bit cliche, isn't it?

I'm glad that at least ONE show I like is getting good ratings...


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Church AV Guy said:


> Why didn't he just ask for the cup back, PLEASE?


I had the same question. The only suggestions I heard were that there is some "cost" to Rumple to invoke the "please" clause, since all magic has a cost, so he only uses it for small things. So either the cost of something big like the cup is too much to bear, or revealing his name was a better option than bearing that cost.



> Mixing up the Valentine cards is a bit cliche, isn't it?


I knew it was going to happen as soon as I saw him buying two cards.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Zevida said:


> I knew it was going to happen as soon as I saw him buying two cards.


Well, David probably doesn't normally cheat so it's not unreasonable to assume that he's not very good at it.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

dtle said:


> I wondered if there's any significance to Gold's first name (in our world). I mean, who would answer to "what's your name?" with "Mr. X"?


Laurence Tureaud. 

But I did think it was weird that Rumpelstiltskin insisted that he had been "Mr. Gold" his whole life. Really? You expect Regina to believe that your parents named you "Mr."?



Zevida said:


> I had the same question. The only suggestions I heard were that there is some "cost" to Rumple to invoke the "please" clause, since all magic has a cost, so he only uses it for small things. So either the cost of something big like the cup is too much to bear, or revealing his name was a better option than bearing that cost.


It might not be a cost in the sense of a "punishment", but perhaps controlling her at that level would be strong enough to make her aware that he was controlling her. In that case she would know that he remembered anyway, so he might as well have taken her deal so he could keep his "please" card to himself for a while longer.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Credits are negotiated as part of the actors' contracts. That's why sometimes the biggest stars are found both at the beginning and end of the credits...Star A got lead billing; Star B refused to be behind Star A; so Star B gets a special credit at the end. "Starring Star A. A bunch of losers with crummy agents, listed individually. A bunch of even bigger losers who get lumped together two or three at a time. And Star B."


I'm always amused that Cloris Leachman is billed as "And Introducing Cloris Leachman" on Raising Hope.


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## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

Zevida said:


> First, we've had the discussion a million times, and the producers of the show confirmed they were referring to Regina with that line.
> 
> And it is now moot anyway, since it has been revealed that Rumple knows.


Note that the voiceover has been missing from the beginning of the last *two* episodes



Cearbhaill said:


> He _is_ Prince Charming, after all- he can't be this big a cad, he just can't!


You haven't seen Shrek the Third, have you?


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

BitbyBlit said:


> But I did think it was weird that Rumpelstiltskin insisted that he had been "Mr. Gold" his whole life. Really? You expect Regina to believe that your parents named you "Mr."?


That is not what he said.
He said "every moment I've spent on _this_ earth that's been my name."
Words matter 
And they matter double especially when they are the dialogue of a known master trickster.

And of course Mr. Gold was never named by parents- like everyone else in Storybrooke he was zapped there by the curse.


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

Zevida said:


> I think the question of who is being referred to in "only one knows the truth" is now moot because obviously both Rumple and Regina know about Fairy Tale Land (FTL from now on). I think Regina knows everything except the "please" clause. She knows to keep Snow and Charming apart. She knows the teacup is meaningful to Rumple and that Belle should stay locked away. She hid Snow's casket. She has a secret room in the cemetery with the heart's of people stored that she used to kill the Huntsman (not sure I'll ever forgive the writers for that). I think she knows everything.
> 
> What's not clear is why this life is better for her than life in FTL. Yes, she is here, keeping everyone from having a happy ending. And she gets to wield a different kind of power. Just seems to me like FTL gives her a lot more access to magic. Maybe she just likes central heating.


I completely agree with you! I've been wondering for a few episodes now what's so much better about this world than the FTL world. Except that she was successful in breaking apart Snow and her prince. Maybe that gives her some satisfaction. But, what I also don't get, is if Rumple remembers everything from FTL, then why isn't he doing more to help return peoples memories. He clearly got more out of FTL.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Sadara said:


> I completely agree with you! I've been wondering for a few episodes now what's so much better about this world than the FTL world. Except that she was successful in breaking apart Snow and her prince. Maybe that gives her some satisfaction.


According to her, her goal was "no more happy endings." In FTL, every story has a happy ending. In the real world...not so much. Making everybody unhappy makes her happy.


Sadara said:


> But, what I also don't get, is if Rumple remembers everything from FTL, then why isn't he doing more to help return peoples memories. He clearly got more out of FTL.


He made a deal. And he's not the type to break a deal.

So he has to manipulate others into doing it for him.


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## Flop (Dec 2, 2005)

Zevida said:


> ...Ginnifer Goodwin is the top billed cast member, likely because she is the most recognizable name and the biggest "star" before the series began.


Really? Never heard of her before this. Went and looked at her IMDB profile and have never seen anything she was in, but I guess that's why you put star in quotes. I am still not a fan though. I just find her wrong for the part somehow.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Flop said:


> Really? Never heard of her before this. Went and looked at her IMDB profile and have never seen anything she was in, but I guess that's why you put star in quotes. I am still not a fan though. I just find her wrong for the part somehow.


Well, she's not an A-list star and she's not a household name, which is why I used quotes, but she has been the lead in movies, and has starred alongside big name stars, so it is not surprising she is top billed even though it doesn't really make sense if you base billing on the importance of characters. I'm sure it was a contractual thing to get her on the show.


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## DavidJL (Feb 21, 2006)

Flop said:


> Really? Never heard of her before this. Went and looked at her IMDB profile and have never seen anything she was in, but I guess that's why you put star in quotes. I am still not a fan though. I just find her wrong for the part somehow.


She's actually the reason I started watching the show, though once the show started I realized there were quite a few others I liked as well. I like her for the part, she fits the different roles fairly well. Princess, school teacher, and though the show runners don't go out of their way with stunt/weapons training, I think she was good in those FTL scenes where she was a Robin Hood type.

She has a look that's somewhat unique in that she fits into multiple types of beauty. A lot of actresses may be a combination of Cute, Beautiful, Sexy and Gorgeous, but few are all 4. But I can see where others might feel differently.


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

I have been trying to figure out how I remember the actress that played Belle.... m/name/nm0211087/ She was in Lost!! She didn't look anything like what she did in lost!


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Sadara said:


> But, what I also don't get, is if Rumple remembers everything from FTL, then why isn't he doing more to help return peoples memories. He clearly got more out of FTL.


Wasn't he in prison in FTL? And ugly? (ok, uglier) I thought he requested to be rich and powerful here and that's why he agreed to it. Plus "please."


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

Sadara said:


> I have been trying to figure out how I remember the actress that played Belle.... m/name/nm0211087/ She was in Lost!! She didn't look anything like what she did in lost!


In every promo for the show last week, it was explicitly stated, "Lost's Emilie de Ravin starrs in this week's Once Upon a Time, on ABC!" How could you have missed it?

Belle's father ceratinly got a beat down by Gold. It was intersting, in that it showd that Gold remembered Rumple, since he was screaming about how he had killed her. In actuality, he wasn't responsible for her death since we found out that she is still alive. Apparently the Evil Queen (TM) lied to Rumple.

He had covered the mirrors in his house not because he was ugly, but because he knew she could use them to spy on him. When the kiss thing was revealed, he uncovered one and screamed into it like he was talking to the Evil Queen, which he was!


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Church AV Guy said:


> In every promo for the show last week, it was explicitly stated, "Lost's Emilie de Ravin starrs in this week's Once Upon a Time, on ABC!" How could you have missed it?


Some of us with this Tivo device don't ever see commercials or promo ads


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

Sadara said:


> I have been trying to figure out how I remember the actress that played Belle.... m/name/nm0211087/ She was in Lost!! She didn't look anything like what she did in lost!


I remember her from _Roswell_.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

dianebrat said:


> Some of us with this Tivo device don't ever see commercials or promo ads


I have a Tivo device, and I still saw it.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Church AV Guy said:


> I have a Tivo device, and I still saw it.


You're not using it right.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Cearbhaill said:


> That is not what he said.
> He said "every moment I've spent on _this_ earth that's been my name."
> Words matter
> And they matter double especially when they are the dialogue of a known master trickster.
> ...


Well yeah, that's what really happened.

But Rumpelstiltskin was trying to convince Regina that he thought he was a regular person from the Storybrooke world. Regular people have first names that they went by at some point in their lives, even if they later became known by something else.

Unless maybe he wasn't trying to convince her, and he wanted her to find out that he remembered while having her think that she had won a small victory against him.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

BitbyBlit said:


> Well yeah, that's what really happened.
> 
> But Rumpelstiltskin was trying to convince Regina that he thought he was a regular person from the Storybrooke world. *Regular people have first names that they went by at some point in their lives, even if they later became known by something else.*
> 
> Unless maybe he wasn't trying to convince her, and he wanted her to find out that he remembered while having her think that she had won a small victory against him.


While I cannot second guess Mr. Gold's motives, people in Storybrooke are not regular people. They were zapped there with whatever name and/or backstory that the curse wanted them to have. And certainly Rumple, from whom the Evil Queen acquired the curse to begin with, could have been aware of the transition like no one else. It is possible that he could have simply chosen the name Mr. Gold himself and never needed or wanted a first name so that he could remain further enigmatic.

Now, whether or not he was zapped there exactly like everyone else or had some super sekrit method of getting his physical self there has not been specifically addressed.
But I keep going back to the apron and shovel in the woods and know that I probably have no idea what he is capable of in this world.

Or are you thinking that he should have said his name was "Hank" or something?


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

Church AV Guy said:


> In every promo for the show last week, it was explicitly stated, "Lost's Emilie de Ravin starrs in this week's Once Upon a Time, on ABC!" How could you have missed it?


Because I have a Tivo and I don't watch promo's or commercials, I avoid them like they are the plague.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Cearbhaill said:


> While I cannot second guess Mr. Gold's motives, people in Storybrooke are not regular people.


But they think they are, and Rumpelstiltskin was seemingly trying to convince Regina that he thought the same thing.



Cearbhaill said:


> Or are you thinking that he should have said his name was "Hank" or something?


Yeah, something like:

Regina: What's your real name?

Rumpel: Xavier?

Regina: No, I mean your name from another life.

Rumpel: I don't know what you're talking about. I've always been Xavier Gold.

That sounds a lot more natural than trying to convince her that he thought he'd used the title "Mr." his entire life.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

BitbyBlit said:


> But they think they are, and Rumpelstiltskin was seemingly trying to convince Regina that he thought the same thing.
> 
> Yeah, something like:
> 
> ...


I think this was just one of those conversations where the words being said do not exactly match the information being conveyed- it was the subtext that was interesting. 
*IMO* he knew that she remembers and she knew that he remembers, and they both knew that the other one knew.
The whole scene was them dancing around the real message being exchanged, which was "Game ON."


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Sorry to dredge this up but I have to respond now that I'm caught up. This is still my favorite episode to date. I'm going to end up watching it more than once before the next new episode.



Cearbhaill said:


> Jane Espenson (who wrote this episode) did a chat with fans about last nights' events plus a few minor teases for future episodes.
> The transcript is here; some of what she said was pretty interesting.


Thank you for posting that. I was very very happy to see that


Spoiler



episode 19 is another Rumple/Gold episode!





martinp13 said:


> Comment on the transcript:So Regina KNOWS about the 'please' clause? Sure doesn't look like it to me. She always has a look on her face that says "I'm going to do what he asks but I don't know why."


I'm confused why anyone would think Regina doesn't have 100% of her memory. IMO whenever he's said "please" it starts her and I can see her wheels turning as if thinking "wtf.. how could he know that I'd have to listen when he said that.. he must know! I must find out!" hence leading to the conversation at the jail cell. She knew after more than one deliberate "please" from him that he had to know.



stellie93 said:


> So the Queen knows that the baby was put in the wardrobe and disappeared, but she doesn't know that her name is Emma or that she can break the curse? Still, when no one has come to town all this time, and now the clock started and the other guy came to town--she should be putting it together..


This bugs me too. Why is she not more suspicious of WHO Emma is??



Cearbhaill said:


> Maybe not conventionally attractive but he was rockin' the hell out of those sunglasses the other night.
> Yowser :up:


Oh thank God I'm not crazy. I've been finding myself drawn to him and I thought it was just the character but I'll be damned if I don't find him compellingly attractive and I have no idea why!



Church AV Guy said:


> He had covered the mirrors in his house not because he was ugly, but because he knew she could use them to spy on him. When the kiss thing was revealed, he uncovered one and screamed into it like he was talking to the Evil Queen, which he was!


But aren't the mirrors only the genie when EQ is around them/looking into them? I didn't think he could see the goings on in ALL mirrors. Am I wrong? I don't know my fairytales too well!


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

photoshopgrl said:


> I'm confused why anyone would think Regina doesn't have 100% of her memory. IMO whenever he's said "please" it starts her and I can see her wheels turning as if thinking "wtf.. how could he know that I'd have to listen when he said that.. he must know! I must find out!" hence leading to the conversation at the jail cell. She knew after more than one deliberate "please" from him that he had to know.


Well... there are more than a few of us that feel/felt that the look on her face was her zoning out and complying with his request without really knowing why.
I think she retains her "Evil Queen" memories, but am not so certain about the "please" thing.



> But aren't the mirrors only the genie when EQ is around them/looking into them? I didn't think he could see the goings on in ALL mirrors. Am I wrong? I don't know my fairytales too well!


That's the conventional fairy tale thinking, but it has not been shown to be so _in this show_. They take liberties with other things and this might just be one.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Cearbhaill said:


> Well... there are more than a few of us that feel/felt that the look on her face was her zoning out and complying with his request without really knowing why.
> I think she retains her "Evil Queen" memories, but am not so certain about the "please" thing.


That kind of surprises me because it didn't even slightly occur to me that she might not know. I'll have to rewatch that scene more closely now.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

photoshopgrl said:


> That kind of surprises me because it didn't even slightly occur to me that she might not know. I'll have to rewatch that scene more closely now.


Not just that one but all of the "please" scenes- in the garden near the apple tree, in the street, and another I can't recall.
It's not a universally agreed upon point, though


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Moving my reply to my general thread so I don't spoil the last ep in here.


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## mm2margaret (Dec 7, 2010)

Flop said:


> Really? Never heard of her before this. Went and looked at her IMDB profile and have never seen anything she was in, but I guess that's why you put star in quotes. I am still not a fan though. I just find her wrong for the part somehow.


Her most recent "big" credit, according to IMDB is the HBO series "Big Love"....and a couple other TV series, from what I can glean. I also never heard of before now, and I also am not much of a fan, at least so far.


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## mm2margaret (Dec 7, 2010)

> Oh thank God I'm not crazy. I've been finding myself drawn to him and I thought it was just the character but I'll be damned if I don't find him compellingly attractive and I have no idea why!


I also do not think you're crazy! I not only think that actor is hot, but is very very talented as an actor, and adds a lot of spice and interest to the role.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

Cearbhaill said:


> Not just that one but all of the "please" scenes- in the garden near the apple tree, in the street, and another I can't recall.
> It's not a universally agreed upon point, though


Ther was one in the jail, when Gold asked her to please sid down. She got "that look" and sat down!


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## jami (Dec 18, 2003)

Cearbhaill said:


> A little odd to see Nurse Ratched and Chief working the looney bin in Storybrooke, though.


Yeah, what was that about???


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

mm2margaret said:


> I also do not think you're crazy! I not only think that actor is hot, but is very very talented as an actor, and adds a lot of spice and interest to the role.


Just sayin. 


Spoiler


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

He's very alluring and quite well put together. There is a lot that is sexy about that.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

I agree. Did not think anything at all about his looks when I started this show, even though I loved the character. Now though..... well yeah, I'm finding that picture all kinds of hotness. 
That just proves that attraction is not skin deep.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Zevida said:


> He's very alluring and quite well put together. There is a lot that is sexy about that.


Until he opens his mouth and you see that jumbled mess of chiclets in there.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> Until he opens his mouth and you see that jumbled mess of chiclets in there.


Even then :up:


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

DevdogAZ said:


> Until he opens his mouth and you see that jumbled mess of chiclets in there.





Cearbhaill said:


> Even then :up:


Such small details. There is absolutely nothing about this man that I should find attractive yet still he gives me very naughty thoughts. Do you really think I care that his teeth are not perfect? (Rumple not included in any of this! )


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

photoshopgrl said:


> Just sayin.
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Yum.


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## Waldorf (Oct 4, 2002)

hummingbird_206 said:


> Yum.


If you'd like to see more of him, "Stargate: Universe" was a very "Rumple-centric" series and I thought he did some fantastic acting in it. It's probably available on Netflix or something if you want to give it a shot.

He's what I would classify as - not sexy in the classical sense, but has a very charismatic presence about him. /straight dude


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Waldorf said:


> He's what I would classify as - not sexy in the classical sense, but has a very charismatic presence about him. /straight dude


Yes, as Gold he oozes charisma. Well he does as Rumple too but in an entirely different, not sexy kind of way.


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## llurgy (Nov 5, 2003)

Every time I see Mr gold I see him playing Gaz in "The Full Monty"


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

llurgy said:


> Every time I see Mr gold I see him playing Gaz in "The Full Monty"


I think Begbie from Trainspotting.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

llurgy said:


> Every time I see Mr gold I see him playing Gaz in "The Full Monty"


I did at first, but now he's overcome that role for me and I just see him as Mr Gold.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

hummingbird_206 said:


> I did at first, but now he's overcome that role for me and I just see him as Mr Gold.


Same here. He's quickly making me forget any previous characters he's been. That is a mark of great acting in my opinion.


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