# Flip this house:Armando to the Rescue(August 15)



## jones07

First new ep that I seen in a long time

Tom and Deb are a mess. They are the poster children for living above your means. It's hard to feel sorry for them.

I know a lot of people dislike Armando, but I think he did his best to help 
Tom and Deb the owners/flippers.

Good episode for our times


Episode synopsis: 

For the last ten years, Armando Montelongo has been flipping houses in San Antonio, Texas, and building a real estate empire. Now, with the real estate market tanking, Armando has turned his attention to helping homeowners in trouble. He believes when it comes to money most people create their own bad luck. It's Armando's mission to set investor-wannabes straight and tackle one real estate nightmare at a time. In this episode, Armando travels to San Clemente, California, to help Tom and Deb Finnegan. Their renovation project has spiraled out of control: a 3,000-square-foot Spanish Renaissance dream house has become a house of horrors. A series of unfortunate events, including the death of their contractor, left the Finnigans penniless. Armando first must push Tom and Deb to end their cycle of self-destruction and follow his advice or face complete financial ruin.


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## MikeAndrews

You gotta be kidding. How did he avoid jail?

Discovery has not only jumped the shark with reality TV, they went into orbit.


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## Snappa77

netringer said:


> How did Armando avoid jail?


What happened?


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## wendiness1

Armando advising other people? Huh? Are they nuts?


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## TiVo'Brien

Really good episode. That couple was just nuts when it came to having their feet on the ground and living within their means once he lost his job. I had to just shake my head at the wife. She seemed to be so emotionally invested in the house and the smooth stucco (which was really nice, btw), and the husband didn't have the cojones to just say 'no' to her fantasies. Of course, he wasn't much better! He seemed to be doing it all just to please her. One of them needed to wake up and smell the financial coffee, but in the end it was too late when they both finally did. They truly deserved their fate.


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## jones07

Snappa77 said:


> What happened?


Business deals gone bad, nothing more then that.

Nothing personal...........it's business


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## MikeMar

This guy drives me NUTS, I refuse to let Maggie watch it if I'm in the room, any other flipping show fine.

Armando I just want to punch anytime he does anything


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## jones07

TiVo'Brien said:


> Really good episode. That couple was just nuts when it came to having their feet on the ground and living within their means once he lost his job. .


When you have to pawn your jewelry to make a mortgage payment you have hit rock bottom.

And didn't they look really old to have kids that age?

Or maybe it's all the stress from their debt that made them look 30 years older


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## Snappa77

I expected a somewhat happy ending but that was a disaster. It was so sad and depressing kinda. Felt sorry for the kids. 


I know alot of ppl dislike Armando but besides Richard and the Trademark team from S.Carolina all the other teams are boring. The ex-football guy being the worst. 
I don't mind Rudy's team from Cali so much. Atlanta is meh. (both versions).

Armando is actually entertaining. 


So is this the new format? Helping horrible flippers?


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## jones07

Oh I can't stand the ex-jock and his frat boy team. When I see it's one of their eps I just FF past most of it.

Helping horrible flippers is a nice new twist I think. The old format was, well getting old


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## appleye1

I love it when Armando is on. The more drama the better with this show, andf Armando brings the drama. He also brings that uber-hawt wife of his. I could watch her flip all day.


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## UberPoster

TiVo'Brien said:


> Really good episode. That couple was just nuts when it came to having their feet on the ground and living within their means once he lost his job. I had to just shake my head at the wife. She seemed to be so emotionally invested in the house and the smooth stucco (which was really nice, btw), and the husband didn't have the cojones to just say 'no' to her fantasies. Of course, he wasn't much better! He seemed to be doing it all just to please her. One of them needed to wake up and smell the financial coffee, but in the end it was too late when they both finally did. They truly deserved their fate.


You only need to know that the couple spent 2 years and hundred of thousands of dollars of their own money BEFORE Armando came along. And by the way hindsight is .... This happened at the apex of the economic collapse. They were unaware (like everyone else) what was to follow.


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## UberPoster

jones07 said:


> First new ep that I seen in a long time
> 
> Tom and Deb are a mess. They are the poster children for living above your means. It's hard to feel sorry for them.
> 
> I know a lot of people dislike Armando, but I think he did his best to help
> Tom and Deb the owners/flippers.
> 
> Good episode for our times
> 
> Episode synopsis:
> 
> For the last ten years, Armando Montelongo has been flipping houses in San Antonio, Texas, and building a real estate empire. Now, with the real estate market tanking, Armando has turned his attention to helping homeowners in trouble. He believes when it comes to money most people create their own bad luck. It's Armando's mission to set investor-wannabes straight and tackle one real estate nightmare at a time. In this episode, Armando travels to San Clemente, California, to help Tom and Deb Finnegan. Their renovation project has spiraled out of control: a 3,000-square-foot Spanish Renaissance dream house has become a house of horrors. A series of unfortunate events, including the death of their contractor, left the Finnigans penniless. Armando first must push Tom and Deb to end their cycle of self-destruction and follow his advice or face complete financial ruin.


Armando did nothing - I speak from personally knowing the situation.


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## UberPoster

I saw the show as Tom and Deb just trying to gracefully get out of a project that went bad. They were not trying to flip a house, they were investing in a house that was to be the place where they put down roots. Obviously the house held value in this economy even with no job? A second mortgage holder was willing to give them a loan under these economic conditions. That would be enough to go on to finish the house. They were not living beyond their means, how else could they fund what was to be a modest remodel. They were racing a sinking economy, and I imagine there are more people out there that had a lot less going for them.


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## jones07

So you know Tom an Deb personally?

I would not say Armando did nothing, he did help in getting the bank to forgive over half of the 2nd mortgage.........did he not?

btw: I wouldn't call that a modest remodel. But "modest" is in the eye of the beholder I guess.


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## UberPoster

jones07 said:


> So you know Tom an Deb personally?
> 
> I would not say Armando did nothing, he did help in getting the bank to forgive over half of the 2nd mortgage.........did he not?
> 
> btw: I wouldn't call that a modest remodel. But "modest" is in the eye of the beholder I guess.


Yes, I know Tom. I guess Armando considers a phone call to a mortgage company as him coming to the rescue. All the real work, including coming up with a construction loan in the middle of a sinking housing market, and managing the construction was left up to the Finnigan's. I can't remembver a Flip episode where Armando is involved where he is so UNINVOLVED. 
The remodel was two years in the making BEFORE Armando came along. It began modestly, but spun out of control due to deaths and contractor incompetence. The Finnigan's always attempted to keep it modest. Circumstances outside of their control changed that. So... they did everything they could think of to get out of it. None of this was shown on TV. Seems they have been set up to revive Armando's sinking career.


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## uncdrew

They didn't make it look like Tom was trying to find a job. And now he's writing a book? Who wants to read that?

This episode confused me. I didn't dislike the couple, but must have missed the first part that explained how they got into this mess. Of course I'm the type that doesn't buy a car or start a remodel until I can pay for it in cash...


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## UberPoster

uncdrew said:


> They didn't make it look like Tom was trying to find a job. And now he's writing a book? Who wants to read that?
> 
> This episode confused me. I didn't dislike the couple, but must have missed the first part that explained how they got into this mess. Of course I'm the type that doesn't buy a car or start a remodel until I can pay for it in cash...


They can make it "look like" anything they want. Tom was filmed looking for work, they just chose not to show it. They also chose not to show Tom suffering a stroke, which severely impacted the family, and Tom. Knowing Tom personally, I can tell you he was between a rock and a hard place. No one was hiring, and taking on menial labor would not have paid for their food, let alone finishing the remodel. Even now the family is struggling to survive, and Tom is washing dishes in an area of southern california where cost of living is different than San Clemente. As for starting a remodel, the money was there, it just spun out of control when the contractor's before Armando botched the remodel. The remodel occured during good times when everyone had no idea what was around the corner. Of course, this was dismissed by the TV show in one sentence, as bad luck. You should be confused since the story told by the producer's is inaccurate, incomplete, and spun to make it "look like" they want it to. Welcome to reality TV. The sad thing is the Finnigan's are a nice family who deserved better story coverage.


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## jones07

Thank you for your input and sharing a different view then the show did.

I wish the Finnigan's better times in the future.


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## 232177

I saw this episode as well and was dumbfounded at the entirety of the situation. I am no fan of Armando's. He has no ethics (remember the roach house he wanted to "paint over"?), has left a trail of unpaid bills across Texas (see wwwDOTflipthislawsuitDOTcom), and even his own family distances themselves from him (see wwwDOTmontelongo-remodelingDOTcom scroll down on home page).

That being said, his deceit and slimyness is trumped in this episode only by the Finnegan's idiocy. I can only hope that the show "played up" the stupidity of these people else I feel bad for the kids that may have inherited the same IQ as the parents.

UberPoster claims to know Tom Finnigan - It wouldnt surpirise me if he IS Tom Finnigan. New user account, some knowledge of the situation, his unqualified support for the Finnegan's, and posting at 1:00 am in the morning on that computer in the trailer.



UberPoster said:


> They were unaware (like everyone else) what was to follow.


No, everyone else wasnt unaware. The majority of people didnt buy houses they couldnt afford with huge mortgages in high cost-of-living neighborhoods. Anyone with half a brain could see this was a formula for disaster right from the get-go. Everyone except for the Finnigans who felt they were entitled to their dream house but never could afford it. The majority of Americans know its stupid to buy a house you cannot afford and have no sympathy for those who did so during the housing boom.



UberPoster said:


> I guess Armando considers a phone call to a mortgage company as him coming to the rescue.


This quote says alot about the Finnigan's. Not only are they innefective, imbecilic, and now insolvent, but they are also ingrates. Armando's phone call saved them more than $150k and was more than Tom was willing / able to do. The wife was right when she said her husband should step up to the plate and get a job.



UberPoster said:


> All the real work, including ... managing the construction was left up to the Finnigan's.


Not true again. The construction management was left up to Oz, and the Finnigans' incompetence nearly screwed that up too. Couldnt even get the doors to the house on time. Tom was busy doing what, sittiing on the couch?



UberPoster said:


> ... but spun out of control due to deaths and contractor incompetence.


Not at all, it spun out of control solely due to Finnigan incompetence. Had the Finnigan's ever heard of an escrow account or not paying a contractor until comperable amounts of work were completed? Not to mention the Finnigan's insistence on nothing but the best for "their dream house". The Finnigan's exemplify entitlement mentality at its best. No money but deserving of the best. Yeah, the rest of America feels for you.



UberPoster said:


> and taking on menial labor would not have paid for their food


UberPoster, if your not Tom Finnigan, your certainly an enabler for him. This statement is just dumb. How much does a loaf of bread and pack of bologna cost? I know its not the surf-and-turf the Finnigans are accustomed too (or feel they are entitled too) but groceries can certainly be paid for with a menial labor job. And people are working menial labor jobs all across the country to provide for their families every day. Your statement smacks of elitism and again shows the Finnigan entitlement mentality.

UberPoster, your messages have made me lose any sympathy I may have had for the Finnigan's. Now I view them with only the contempt and scorn they deserve.


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## UberPoster

Honest ***** said:


> I saw this episode as well and was dumbfounded at the entirety of the situation. I am no fan of Armando's. He has no ethics (remember the roach house he wanted to "paint over"?), has left a trail of unpaid bills across Texas (see wwwDOTflipthislawsuitDOTcom), and even his own family distances themselves from him (see wwwDOTmontelongo-remodelingDOTcom scroll down on home page).
> 
> That being said, his deceit and slimyness is trumped in this episode only by the Finnegan's idiocy. I can only hope that the show "played up" the stupidity of these people else I feel bad for the kids that may have inherited the same IQ as the parents.
> 
> UberPoster claims to know Tom Finnigan - It wouldnt surpirise me if he IS Tom Finnigan. New user account, some knowledge of the situation, his unqualified support for the Finnegan's, and posting at 1:00 am in the morning on that computer in the trailer.
> 
> No, everyone else wasnt unaware. The majority of people didnt buy houses they couldnt afford with huge mortgages in high cost-of-living neighborhoods. Anyone with half a brain could see this was a formula for disaster right from the get-go. Everyone except for the Finnigans who felt they were entitled to their dream house but never could afford it. The majority of Americans know its stupid to buy a house you cannot afford and have no sympathy for those who did so during the housing boom.
> 
> This quote says alot about the Finnigan's. Not only are they innefective, imbecilic, and now insolvent, but they are also ingrates. Armando's phone call saved them more than $150k and was more than Tom was willing / able to do. The wife was right when she said her husband should step up to the plate and get a job.
> 
> Not true again. The construction management was left up to Oz, and the Finnigans' incompetence nearly screwed that up too. Couldnt even get the doors to the house on time. Tom was busy doing what, sittiing on the couch?
> 
> Not at all, it spun out of control solely due to Finnigan incompetence. Had the Finnigan's ever heard of an escrow account or not paying a contractor until comperable amounts of work were completed? Not to mention the Finnigan's insistence on nothing but the best for "their dream house". The Finnigan's exemplify entitlement mentality at its best. No money but deserving of the best. Yeah, the rest of America feels for you.
> 
> UberPoster, if your not Tom Finnigan, your certainly an enabler for him. This statement is just dumb. How much does a loaf of bread and pack of bologna cost? I know its not the surf-and-turf the Finnigans are accustomed too (or feel they are entitled too) but groceries can certainly be paid for with a menial labor job. And people are working menial labor jobs all across the country to provide for their families every day. Your statement smacks of elitism and again shows the Finnigan entitlement mentality.
> 
> UberPoster, your messages have made me lose any sympathy I may have had for the Finnigan's. Now I view them with only the contempt and scorn they deserve.


Certainly entitled to your opinion. I do not agree with most of it. Much of what you comment about Armando has nothing to do with the show, or the Finnigan's. The Finnigan's do not have anything to do with his prior or present reputation, bringing it into your discussion of them is a distortion of the truth.

Postulating as to who I am also serves no purpose. However, kudos on the amateur detective work (new poster, etc).

Lastly, the balance of your comments center on what YOU THINK the Finnigan's are like, and whether they require sympathy. It matters not that your preception is wrong. The irony to me is that in our society, Jon and Kate receive accolades for being wonderful people while behind the scenes they tear each other apart and damage the psyches of their innocent children. The Finnigan's, have garbage thrown on them, by a public that slanders a good family who only wanted to provide a nice loving home for their kids.


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## MonsterJoe

Honest ***** said:


> Wall of Text.


I'm sure there was a point in here somewhere, but I missed it.


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## uncdrew

UberPoster said:


> They can make it "look like" anything they want. Tom was filmed looking for work, they just chose not to show it. They also chose not to show Tom suffering a stroke, which severely impacted the family, and Tom. Knowing Tom personally, I can tell you he was between a rock and a hard place. No one was hiring, and taking on menial labor would not have paid for their food, let alone finishing the remodel. Even now the family is struggling to survive, and Tom is washing dishes in an area of southern california where cost of living is different than San Clemente. As for starting a remodel, the money was there, it just spun out of control when the contractor's before Armando botched the remodel. The remodel occured during good times when everyone had no idea what was around the corner. Of course, this was dismissed by the TV show in one sentence, as bad luck. You should be confused since the story told by the producer's is inaccurate, incomplete, and spun to make it "look like" they want it to. Welcome to reality TV. The sad thing is the Finnigan's are a nice family who deserved better story coverage.


I completely understand, and it's probably the main reason I don't have any desire to be on reality TV.

I'm glad the Finnigan's have friends like you who can see through the editing and share with us. Sucks for them they were made out to be so superficial, helpless and naive.


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## Snappa77

Sooooo 2 new posters beefing about the show. Seems like Tom vs Armando.


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## RonDawg

Honest ***** said:


> I saw this episode as well and was dumbfounded at the entirety of the situation. I am no fan of Armando's. He has no ethics (remember the roach house he wanted to "paint over"?), has left a trail of unpaid bills across Texas (see wwwDOTflipthislawsuitDOTcom), and even his own family distances themselves from him (see wwwDOTmontelongo-remodelingDOTcom scroll down on home page).


I checked the second website out and all it says is it is not affiliated with the Montelongo's of TV fame. There's no indication the owners of this business are even related, much less publicly disowning them.

As far as the first one, it just looks like a messy, incoherent blog.


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## uncdrew

Yeah, those web sites didn't give me the info/proof I was hoping for.


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## jones07

Snappa77 said:


> Sooooo 2 new posters beefing about the show. Seems like Tom vs Armando.


Welll well well hummm


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## HerFriend

I have never blogged and only came to this web site because of the personal relationship I have with the Finnigans. I can't believe there are actually people out there who would get on-line and comment about people on a tv show. Give me a break. I am only commenting so that there is some sort of "truth" regarding the character of my dear friends.
The Finningans are wonderful people and the show did NOT portray them in a true light. They have never spoken unkindly about anyone involved with the show especially Armando. If Armando was to "Rescue", he certainly failed. The Finnigans never professed to be professional flippers. They were remodeling their home and fell victims to circumstance and the economy. When they began their project they had more than enough CASH to complete it and an income to survive in a nice lifestyle. I know there are people out there who can't understand that some people live well and stay within their means. Oh and by the way, Debra is a garage sale girl. She is not snobby and has always loved finding a treasure on a Saturday morning. I don't think she has paid full price for anything in the 10 years that I have known her. Tom and Deb have worked hard all of their lives to reach their goal/dreams. They are not selfish nor unappreciative. They have always shared what they had and helped those that they could. 
Armando came in and was going to save the day. After another $100,000+ was spent under his advisory, the Finnigans still were not able to live in their home. I would have thought that with all of Armando's experience he would have advised them to accomplish the projects first that would allow them to obtain their "occupancy permit" so that they could live in their home and not have to continue to pay for housing and a mortgage on a home they could not live in. 
Those of you commenting that you "feel sorry for the kids". I feel sorry for you that you would be so short sighted to make such an ill comment. Tom and Debra are wonderful parents. Their boys have always been put first and will be amazing young men because of the way that their parents have seen their family through this time in their lives. You should be ashamed that you would type a comment like that. As if you would know from your brief look into thier lives from a tv "reality" show. I bet you are one of those people that buys the tabloids at the check out every week and think you are best friends with the stars.
The Finnigans will continue to persevere through this chapter in their lives. They will come out better for it and they will maintain their gentle loving demeanor that makes them the people they are and gives those of us that are fortunate to call them friends the joy of being in thier lives.
We love you Finningans!!!!!!
I won't return to this web site because I have a "real" life to live so comment away. We know the truth!!!


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## UberPoster

HerFriend said:


> I have never blogged and only came to this web site because of the personal relationship I have with the Finnigans. I can't believe there are actually people out there who would get on-line and comment about people on a tv show. Give me a break. I am only commenting so that there is some sort of "truth" regarding the character of my dear friends.
> The Finningans are wonderful people and the show did NOT portray them in a true light. They have never spoken unkindly about anyone involved with the show especially Armando. If Armando was to "Rescue", he certainly failed. The Finnigans never professed to be professional flippers. They were remodeling their home and fell victims to circumstance and the economy. When they began their project they had more than enough CASH to complete it and an income to survive in a nice lifestyle. I know there are people out there who can't understand that some people live well and stay within their means. Oh and by the way, Debra is a garage sale girl. She is not snobby and has always loved finding a treasure on a Saturday morning. I don't think she has paid full price for anything in the 10 years that I have known her. Tom and Deb have worked hard all of their lives to reach their goal/dreams. They are not selfish nor unappreciative. They have always shared what they had and helped those that they could.
> Armando came in and was going to save the day. After another $100,000+ was spent under his advisory, the Finnigans still were not able to live in their home. I would have thought that with all of Armando's experience he would have advised them to accomplish the projects first that would allow them to obtain their "occupancy permit" so that they could live in their home and not have to continue to pay for housing and a mortgage on a home they could not live in.
> Those of you commenting that you "feel sorry for the kids". I feel sorry for you that you would be so short sighted to make such an ill comment. Tom and Debra are wonderful parents. Their boys have always been put first and will be amazing young men because of the way that their parents have seen their family through this time in their lives. You should be ashamed that you would type a comment like that. As if you would know from your brief look into thier lives from a tv "reality" show. I bet you are one of those people that buys the tabloids at the check out every week and think you are best friends with the stars.
> The Finnigans will continue to persevere through this chapter in their lives. They will come out better for it and they will maintain their gentle loving demeanor that makes them the people they are and gives those of us that are fortunate to call them friends the joy of being in thier lives.
> We love you Finningans!!!!!!
> I won't return to this web site because I have a "real" life to live so comment away. We know the truth!!!


Class act - Thanks for the truth. Did the production company that makes Flip This House need to stoop to slander to revive a reality star's career?


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## uncdrew

HerFriend said:


> I can't believe there are actually people out there who would get on-line and comment about people on a tv show.


Wow, you're really out of touch with America, huh?

Millions of people watch TV. Millions of people use the internet. You can't believe that there's some cross-over there?  We're just supposed to watch TV and then not discuss it with friends? Wild.


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## uncdrew

UberPoster said:


> Class act - Thanks for the truth. Did the production company that makes Flip This House need to stoop to slander to revive a reality star's career?


She's a class act for insulting us?

We're just commenting on a show, asking questions, giving our take on things. Many of use were open to hearing UberPoster's comments and getting more detail on the story. Somehow she's upset with us that we're concerned about the kids? Are we supposed to not care about the kids? 

But if the Finnigan Friends are the type who insult us, our thoughts, how we spend out time...

Interesting...


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## Simon Says

_*"They were not living beyond their means, how else could they fund what was to be a modest remodel. They were racing a sinking economy, and I imagine there are more people out there that had a lot less going for them."*_[/QUOTE]

This was in no means a "modest remodel". OMG! The remodel was stunning! It was absolutely a gorgeous house with no sign of the old house left. Was this a complete tear down? It looks to me that this was a "McMansion" type remodel that we see so often in Southern California, where a modest home is torn down for the behemoth house on a small lot.

The economic melt down last year, who could have predicted the total melt down would have been so far reaching? Everyone was scared to spend a dime. Our remodel business came to a complete standstill as far as new jobs. Last year was the worst I have ever seen in twenty years. Trying to convince my customers to embark on a remodel was like asking people to hang art on the titanic. There was a complete standstill in the remodel business.

I bet in hind site the Finnigans would have been much happier in that quaint cottage than to be completely out of house and home.

The American Dream has become a tragedy. We as a society have really been accustomed to living beyond our means. I do hope the best for the Finnigans.


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## MikeMar

So what's the tally?

new accounts
2: in favor of the Finnigans
2: not in favor of the Finnigans

do we have a 5th new account tie breaker?


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## Simon Says

UberPoster said:


> I saw the show as Tom and Deb just trying to gracefully get out of a project that went bad. They were not trying to flip a house, they were investing in a house that was to be the place where they put down roots. Obviously the house held value in this economy even with no job? A second mortgage holder was willing to give them a loan under these economic conditions. That would be enough to go on to finish the house. They were not living beyond their means, how else could they fund what was to be a modest remodel. They were racing a sinking economy, and I imagine there are more people out there that had a lot less going for them.





UberPoster said:


> Certainly entitled to your opinion. I do not agree with most of it. Much of what you comment about Armando has nothing to do with the show, or the Finnigan's. The Finnigan's do not have anything to do with his prior or present reputation, bringing it into your discussion of them is a distortion of the truth.
> 
> Postulating as to who I am also serves no purpose. However, kudos on the amateur detective work (new poster, etc).
> 
> Lastly, the balance of your comments center on what YOU THINK the Finnigan's are like, and whether they require sympathy. It matters not that your preception is wrong. _*The irony to me is that in our society, Jon and Kate receive accolades for being wonderful people while behind the scenes they tear each other apart and damage the psyches of their innocent children. The Finnigan's, have garbage thrown on them, by a public that slanders a good family who only wanted to provide a nice loving home for their kids.*_


_*
*_

Accolades? Who are you kidding. Those poor kids of Jon and Kate. Those kids are the cash cow. The parents are using their "unusual" circumstances to pay for rearing those kids! I hope that someone like Paul Peterson intervenes to make sure the money earned on that show is going into a trust for the kids. Jon and Kate are a train wreck and should be criticized and so is Armando and anyone who aspires to put their story on a realty TV show. The producers of reality TV shows know one thing is true about people, just like the traffic jams on the road caused by people slowing down to watch an accident, people love to watch a train wreck. I hope at least Tom and Deb got paid to air their tragedy. Poor kids!

I would rather watch Richard and his crew from Trademark. They seemed to be upstanding people. Probably the reason they are not on anymore. Maybe not enough train wrecks for the producers to make much money off them.


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## pmyers

Dang....now I can't wait to watch this episode


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## RonDawg

In the space of barely 24 hours, four new members have joined TCF just to chime in on this thread. EDIT: 3 of the 4 joined in just the last 7 hours.

Is this a record of some sort?


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## 232177

Snappa77 said:


> Sooooo 2 new posters beefing about the show. Seems like Tom vs Armando.


Yeah, I'm Armando, pointing you to links that make me look bad. Some type of bizarre reverse psychology you suspect me of, right? Sheesh.


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## 232177

uncdrew said:


> Yeah, those web sites didn't give me the info/proof I was hoping for.


You'll have to look halfway down the flipthislawsuit page and view the court links for the charges and suit information for the info / proof of his deceitfulness. The comments sections also contains information regarding their extended families' remodeling business in the other link that I also posted.


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## 232177

uncdrew said:


> She's a class act for insulting us?


If you've seen the show, your not surprised. Tom / UberPoster is out of touch in a big way.


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## 232177

RonDawg said:


> In the space of barely 24 hours, four new members have joined TCF just to chime in on this thread. EDIT: 3 of the 4 joined in just the last 7 hours.
> 
> Is this a record of some sort?


If you google the show's title, this is the only thread on the 'net right now with comments regarding the show. I'm sure that's what drew Tom / UberPoster here. I coudnt resist joining / commenting after reading his "poor Finnigan" comments. The Finnigan entitlement mentality just makes my blood boil and I needed to vent. This was a good thread to do so.


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## dthmj

Who needs reality tv when we have this thread?


/popcorn


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## RonDawg

Honest ***** said:


> If you google the show's title, this is the only thread on the 'net right now with comments regarding the show. I'm sure that's what drew Tom / UberPoster here. I coudnt resist joining / commenting after reading his "poor Finnigan" comments. The Finnigan entitlement mentality just makes my blood boil and I needed to vent. This was a good thread to do so.


Considering the popularity of this show (or lack thereof), and that it doesn't exactly incite deep passions, it seems like an awful lot of new people coming in just to air their $0.02.

I can understand if this happened with the Obama Health Care thread, or the Michael Vick Being Taken In By Another Team thread, but it's a bit puzzling for this one.

Heck, if anything the Whale Wars thread should have caused more people to sign up, considering how people feel about whaling and whether or not the Sea Shepherds are heroes or misguided aqua-hippies.


----------



## 232177

MonsterJoe said:


> I'm sure there was a point in here somewhere, but I missed it.


The Finnigans, and people like them with their entitlement mentality, are still a big problem with this country. And Tom / UberPoster's "poor Finnigan" attitude is simply offensive given that they have created their own problems.


----------



## 232177

RonDawg said:


> Considering the popularity of this show (or lack thereof), and that it doesn't exactly incite deep passions, it seems like an awful lot of new people coming in just to air their $0.02.


That's another of the reasons that helped me figure out that UberPoster was really Tom and not "a friend". I'm sure he started searching the 'net for comments about the show as soon as it was over.... on his computer in the travel trailer in the friend's driveway instead of being at work. Another chance to perpetuate the "poor Finnigan" attitude.


----------



## uncdrew

RonDawg said:


> I can understand if this happened with the Obama Health Care thread, or the Michael Vick Being Taken In By Another Team thread, but it's a bit puzzling for this one.


Google can't/won't find threads in the happy hour section because you have to be a member to get to that section (to view).

Before that was the case, we had a Britney Spears thread 7 miles long because of the search result traffic. It was impressive.


----------



## MonsterJoe

Honest ***** said:


> The Finnigans, and people like them with their entitlement mentality, are still a big problem with this country. And Tom / UberPoster's "poor Finnigan" attitude is simply offensive given that they have created their own problems.


Even people who create their own problems are entitled to be upset about it.

Even if Uber is Tom (who cares?), I can't say that I wouldn't try to defend myself...and I'm not quite sure what compelled you to create an account just to tear him down.

anyway...meh....I'm not new here, so it's really no surprise. 

/popcorn


----------



## uncdrew

Honest ***** said:


> You'll have to look halfway down the flipthislawsuit page and view the court links for the charges and suit information for the info / proof of his deceitfulness. The comments sections also contains information regarding their extended families' remodeling business in the other link that I also posted.


Thanks, I did read more closely and did see some stuff that makes me think there are many people either mad at Armando or who perhaps feel he owes them money.

I liked the summary of his ebook:

The bottom line is this: If Armando were making money flipping houses, he'd be doing that. He's trying to sell how-to courses because, as we have seen documented thoroughly now, he doesn't make any real money in real estate and is attempting to make money as a get-rich-quick infomercial guru. The show is entertaining, but it is not educational and this cast member and his cohorts have nothing to teach you. Where and how people spend their hard earned money is their own concern, but the fact is indisputable that Armando Montelongo has demonstrated next to zero credibility and anyone thinking of sending him their money is well advised to look at inexpensive/free sources of far superior information from known credible sources available elsewhere.

Even the new Richard Davis (ie Trademark) shows aren't about flipping houses. I'm getting a little bugged by the show. I've seen three episodes of the new season and not one is a house flip. Makes me think there just aren't houses to be flipped right now. Plenty to buy, plenty to fix. Not a lot of selling happening.

I've flipped a few houses about 7 years ago. I made much less money than the stress I dealt with. It's not easy, even in an up market. Even Armando has headaches on the shows that make it to TV -- the shows that are the successes. Imagine the headaches that come from the deals that don't go too smoothly. He's probably better at dealing with the headaches than I am, no doubt about it. I'm the wrong personality to flip houses. So I'm done.

But I did learn a lot along the way, and helped GC my "dream" house. And that gets me back to this particular show. Yes, I went over budget on time and money. But I'm not now living in a trailer. I know stuff can go wrong and over-budget. But if it happens to such a degree that you lose your home... you probably should have just bought your dream house, not tried to build it. Then at least you'd know the finances.


----------



## uncdrew

And for the record, I wish the best to the Finnigans and Armando. 

I hope everyone finds more projects, jobs and success. :up:


----------



## UberPoster

Simon Says said:


> _*"They were not living beyond their means, how else could they fund what was to be a modest remodel. They were racing a sinking economy, and I imagine there are more people out there that had a lot less going for them."*_


This was in no means a "modest remodel". OMG! The remodel was stunning! It was absolutely a gorgeous house with no sign of the old house left. Was this a complete tear down? It looks to me that this was a "McMansion" type remodel that we see so often in Southern California, where a modest home is torn down for the behemoth house on a small lot.

The economic melt down last year, who could have predicted the total melt down would have been so far reaching? Everyone was scared to spend a dime. Our remodel business came to a complete standstill as far as new jobs. Last year was the worst I have ever seen in twenty years. Trying to convince my customers to embark on a remodel was like asking people to hang art on the titanic. There was a complete standstill in the remodel business.

I bet in hind site the Finnigans would have been much happier in that quaint cottage than to be completely out of house and home.

The American Dream has become a tragedy. We as a society have really been accustomed to living beyond our means. I do hope the best for the Finnigans.[/QUOTE]

No it was not a modest remodel - The Finnigan's carefully planned and budgeted for a phased appoach to rebuilding the home over time. However, their contractor blew their plans to smithereens. One year into the project, the contractor had exhausted their contractual budget, with only a fraction of the work completed. A partner of the company came to their home and declared the company was bankrupt and the contractor who was in charge of the remodel was dying of brain cancer. Leavin g the Finnigan's high and dry. The contractor walked away scott free. Turns out it was worse than that. Most of the work done during the previous year had to be completely redone because the city would not pass inspections for theiir shoddy workmanship. Tom spent 6 months and an additional $100,000 (ther last of their reserve cash) just to get it to where the TV show picked up. This is when he lost his job, and had a stroke. None of this was even mentioned on the show. All of this occurred more than a year ago, when the meltdown was getting into full swing. You have no idea what a train wreck the house was when they bought it. That quaint house you saw on TV did not start out that way. They made it that way through hard work at their own hands. These are not superficial lazy people. Since the family was too large to live in this tiny house, they tried to sell (before the bubble burst) but there was no interest due to its limited family accomodations. It was back to the remodel after that. There's a lot more to this story, I guess the show spent more time dramatizing small character flaws, instead of telling the real story. Too bad. They missed a great opportunity to warn people about slimy contractors, blind trust, and innocent mistakes.


----------



## Snappa77

Anyways welcome to our little community forum.

As you can see most of us have been here for years. If ya like television you will like it here. Especially once LOST starts again.

Enjoy the other threads and have fun here. 




You too Tom.


----------



## tomsbestfriend

I am just going to do this one post and will not be replying but I felt as Tom's best friend and best man at his wedding I wanted to say a few things. First, everyone is entitled to their opinions and if all I knew about Tom was how he was presented on the show I might have some similar opinions. I was out in California for some of the filming so I do know what was included and what was left out and much was left out. I can honestly say I have never met anyone who is more humble, thoughtful, and amazingly unselfish as Tom. He is as unpretentious as it gets and is always trying to please everyone that he cares about. Yes, he made some bad decisions but if you notice..... he never tried to take advantage of anyone, never tried to do anything that would hurt anyone else. He is a very smart man who started his own company and became very successful before some unfortunate events changed his life completely. Again, everyone is entitled to their opinion but I wanted to pass on the true story of who is Tom Finnigan......I would never want anyone else as a best friend.


----------



## UberPoster

Snappa77 said:


> Anyways welcome to our little community forum.
> 
> As you can see most of us have been here for years. If ya like television you will like it here. Especially once LOST starts again.
> 
> Enjoy the other threads and have fun here.
> 
> You too Tom.


Touche - Get off the couch and enjoy life - Then watch your favorite TV Show - Tom suggests avoiding writing letters to reality shows, as you may get what you wish for.


----------



## Simon Says

RonDawg said:


> Considering the popularity of this show (or lack thereof), and that it doesn't exactly incite deep passions, it seems like an awful lot of new people coming in just to air their $0.02.
> 
> I can understand if this happened with the Obama Health Care thread, or the Michael Vick Being Taken In By Another Team thread, but it's a bit puzzling for this one.
> 
> Heck, if anything the Whale Wars thread should have caused more people to sign up, considering how people feel about whaling and whether or not the Sea Shepherds are heroes or misguided aqua-hippies.


Well at least for me, the reason I wanted to talk about this is: I am just astounded at this sense of entitlement that so many Americans maintain, even in the face of total adversity. This is about Americans living beyond their means. Sure, who wouldn't want a Mediterranean manse on the coast? Tom claims they were after a "modest remodel", but when you are down to nothing and Deb is still demanding smooth plaster walls and he with his cherry wood floors and stone walls, me thinks these folks were due for a serious realty check up to the very final hour. A modest remodel means paint and new windows and maybe updated lighting and appliances. I would like to know what the Finnigan's consider a "modest remodel"? I believe he said in the show, he wanted "the best". He said this even after the architect died, after the first contractor walked off with their money, after he lost his job. How many signals does this couple need to alert them them that the "best" is not in the cards anymore? Entitlement! Man, this burns people every time.

I am sure Tom and Deb are nice people and his best friend just joined in the forum to defend his honor. It is a very sad story for sure, and one to learn by. I hope Tom gets his book published and he makes lots of money to recover and educate other people who walk around thinking they are entitled to the same luxuries in life in the face of adversity.

Anyone know how much the house sold for or is it still on the market?


----------



## jones07

Question for anyone in the know:

Do the people that appear on FTH receives much if any monetary compensation?

If so I don't think they could have paid the Finnigan's enough for this view into their private lives. And it was NOT a positive view of their lives.


----------



## uncdrew

Yep, best to get many recommendations for contractors and then be very hands on during a remodel. I structure all my contracts to just pay once certain steps are completed and passed inspection (both mine and the city's).

I give the Finnigans credit for still being married. This type of thing tears many couples apart.


----------



## MonsterJoe

It's not easy to remain lucid in the face of realizing your dreams...and foolishly chasing a dream does not, on it's own, suggest a sense of entitlement.

It sucks when people get **** on in life...no matter the reason.


----------



## UberPoster

Simon Says said:


> Well at least for me, the reason I wanted to talk about this is: I am just astounded at this sense of entitlement that so many Americans maintain, even in the face of total adversity. This is about Americans living beyond their means. Sure, who wouldn't want a Mediterranean manse on the coast? Tom claims they were after a "modest remodel", but when you are down to nothing and Deb is still demanding smooth plaster walls and he with his cherry wood floors and stone walls, me thinks these folks were due for a serious realty check up to the very final hour. A modest remodel means paint and new windows and maybe updated lighting and appliances. I would like to know what the Finnigans consider a "modest remodel". I believe he said in the show, he wanted "the best". He said this after the architect died, after the first contractor walked off with their money, after he lost his job. How many signals does this chap need to alert him the "best" is not in the cards anymore? Entitlement! Man, this burns people every time.


A sense of entitlement generated by out of context vignettes from clever editors of TV reality shows. All just a lot of smoke and mirrors but little real substance. Debra never demanded anything. She expected the contractor to be aware of what the neighborhood style called for, and to prioiritize accordingly. The TV show people had another agenda. To provide entertainment for you all out there. What better way than to dial up the angst, and back her into a corner? They seized upon a few minutes of character flaw, amounst hundreds of hours of who the real Finnigan's are. I know because I saw what they did. Yes, I could have stepped in and demanded they back off. But sometimes you have to hold your nose, and do what needs to be done, to accomplish what you're after. In this case, finishing the damn house, and moving on.


----------



## Simon Says

jones07 said:


> Question for anyone in the know:
> 
> Do the people that appear on FTH receives much if any monetary compensation?
> 
> If so I don't think they could have paid the Finnigan's enough for this view into their private lives. And it was NOT a positive view of their lives.


Producers are brutal. They would make Mother Theresa look like a fraud. Who in their right mind would want to subject themselves to this?


----------



## UberPoster

Simon Says said:


> Producers are brutal. They would make Mother Theresa look like a fraud. Who in their right mind would want to subject themselves to this?


The Finnigan's loved the TV crew, Armando and Veronica. The people sent out there were very down to earth, genuine, and candid. There is a very dark side to this story. And I think it lies at the doorstep of Departure Films and A&E. It is not the Finnigan's stuff, but a decision to show them in a negative way because of the general failure to complete the happy ending. From what I saw, this show may have been edited several times before the decision was made to fling mud. With Armando signed to a new pilot, he get's a fresh start, even with his horrendous track record. The Finnigan's are and will become irrelevant. Nice country we live in. Hrd working people trying to better their position in life. No, superficial, naive idiots - That's the ticket.


----------



## wendiness1

This is why I would never agree to a reality show. They can make you look however they like.


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## uncdrew

wendiness1 said:


> This is why I would never agree to a reality show. They can make you look however they like.


Yep, it's up to them.

And sometimes they make families look great.


----------



## 232177

UberPoster said:


> Debra never demanded anything. She expected the contractor to be aware of what the neighborhood style called for, and to prioiritize accordingly.


There you go again Tom, another blatant lie. Everyone who saw the show saw her say from her own mouth "I will get my way" in regards to the smooth stucco. And then you and Debra tried to get it out of Oz as a semi-freebie. And regardless of what the neighborhood style called for, your budget didnt match "the best" you felt you were entitled to.

After reviewing my posts on this board, I believe a few of my posts may have come across more harshly than I intended. I apologize for that. But my opinion remains that the Finnigan's had, and still maintain, an entitlement mentality that they need to get over. The "poor Tom and Debra" schtick still makes my blood boil; Noone else is responsible for this mess except for the Finnigans.


----------



## UberPoster

Honest ***** said:


> There you go again Tom, another blatant lie. Everyone who saw the show saw her say from her own mouth "I will get my way" in regards to the smooth stucco. And then you and Debra tried to get it out of Oz as a semi-freebie. And regardless of what the neighborhood style called for, your budget didnt match "the best" you felt you were entitled to.
> 
> After reviewing my posts on this board, I believe a few of my posts may have come across more harshly than I intended. I apologize for that. But my opinion remains that the Finnigan's had, and still maintain, an entitlement mentality that they need to get over. The "poor Tom and Debra" schtick still makes my blood boil; Noone else is responsible for this mess except for the Finnigans.


Here you go again! Calling people names, liar? - I think you are looking to bait me - Sorry I'm not biting. All you have to do is see the final result - Did Debra get her smooth stucco? Who do you think made that decision, the TV show? Wrong again. Debra and Tom made that decision, and they had the budget to make the call either way. You also have a problem with entitlement. Where that comes from, I have no idea. It's clearly your stuff. You have entitlement cross wired with rational mature decision making. Debra and Tom never tried to get a freebie, they expected OZ to negotiate with his subcontractors, where a high estimate did not meet competing estimates from local stucco contractors. Something every SMART home remodeler does. If you watch Flip, take note how Armando treats his contractor's. The Finnigan's were far more civil, and professional. You really should stop posting your repetitive, entitlement whine, I sense you have deep rooted problems, little common sense, and an ax to grind of a personal nature.


----------



## UberPoster

UberPoster said:


> Here you go again! Calling people names, liar? - I think you are looking to bait me - Sorry I'm not biting. All you have to do is see the final result - Did Debra get her smooth stucco? Who do you think made that decision, the TV show? Wrong again. Debra and Tom made that decision, and they had the budget to make the call either way. You also have a problem with entitlement. Where that comes from, I have no idea. It's clearly your stuff. You have entitlement cross wired with rational mature decision making. Debra and Tom never tried to get a freebie, they expected OZ to negotiate with his subcontractors, where a high estimate did not meet competing estimates from local stucco contractors. Something every SMART home remodeler does. If you watch Flip, take note how Armando treats his contractor's. The Finnigan's were far more civil, and professional. You really should stop posting your repetitive, entitlement whine, I sense you have deep rooted problems, little common sense, and an ax to grind of a personal nature.


And BTW - Oz was a nice generous contractor, but he was not working for free - He was profiting from the work - And the Finnigan's paid for the work, not Armando, or anyone else. You my friend are way off base.


----------



## UberPoster

UberPoster said:


> And BTW - Oz was a nice generous contractor, but he was not working for free - He was profiting from the work - And the Finnigan's paid for the work, not Armando, or anyone else. You my friend are way off base.


And BTW - The stucco finish was not solely an aesthetic decision - It was a decision that had a lot of impact on the value of the home - This finish is associated with the historic Spanish style unique to San Clemente. Debra had researched this all in detail, and felt it could hurt the value of the home, not to mention veer away from the Architect's original design. Did she feel entitled? No, she felt empowered to do the research on the home she loved. Especially when the Finnigan's were footing the bill. She was also aware that Oz came from a region of Southern California where stucco finishes are different. So his estimate was very high compared to local stucco people whose estimates were lower. Oz did not like having subcontractors who were outside his sphere of influence, so the Finnigan's had to use his people even though they were higher priced, and the finish was not smooth. The Finnigan;s were not being elitist, they were trying to get the most for THEIR money. But they had to play the reality TV game, and lo and behold, were made to look unappreciative and foolish. Unfairly.


----------



## curiousinct

Just watched the episode last night. Fascinating story that probably was not captured in it's true context. Are the Finnigan's still hanging tough together? When was this show filmed? Where do they live now? Has Tom found work? It is real easy to throw stones at people who are down. Why are people on this forum piling on these people. I would not wish their fate on anyone, why run up the score. Looking to hear if there is or was a happy ending to this nightmare.


----------



## JayLev

I joined to post that I watched this episode and it was very depressing. I felt bad for the Finnigan family. I then searched on Google to find out if Tom wrote a book and whether there was more information from A&E to help this family? The only search results were this thread which doesn't seem to have much sympathy for a family that lost their home and savings based on some bad decisions in one of the worst economic recessions in US history. 

I hope the Finnigan family rebounds in time, they may not have the financial stature they once had, but they like many others deserve our compassion, not criticism. If there is any information on a book being released or other ways to help this family - it might be helpful if that was posted.


----------



## RonDawg

uncdrew said:


> Google can't/won't find threads in the happy hour section because you have to be a member to get to that section (to view).
> 
> Before that was the case, we had a Britney Spears thread 7 miles long because of the search result traffic. It was impressive.


That's my point...in the 13 hours since my last post, another three members have signed up just to give their opinions on this subject.

What I'm trying to say it's I don't think it's all that coincidental that in less than 48 hours, 7 new TCF members signed up just to give their opinions on a relatively obscure (IMHO) show. At least 2 or 3 have admitted to having personal ties to the subjects of the show (and this episode in particular), and I wouldn't be surprised if the others did as well.


----------



## jradosh

Wow... I didn't expect this thread 

Now I'll have to watch the episode... I'd pretty much given up on watching FTH.


----------



## sbourgeo

jradosh said:


> Now I'll have to watch the episode... I'd pretty much given up on watching FTH.


Same here. I bet this is all part of a viral marketing campaign to get us all to watch the show.


----------



## jones07

Come back and let us know what you think of the episode.


----------



## 232177

UberPoster said:


> You really should stop posting your repetitive, entitlement whine, I sense you have deep rooted problems, little common sense, and an ax to grind of a personal nature.


Oh this is rich, the man living in a travel trailer in a friend's driveway accuses me of having the problem. Here's a suggestion for you Tom, get off the computer and get a job (or second one if need be), even if it's a menial labor one that you so disdain, and provide for your family rather than trying to perpetuate the "poor Finnigan" schtick.


----------



## 232177

curiousinct said:


> It is real easy to throw stones at people who are down. Why are people on this forum piling on these people. I would not wish their fate on anyone, why run up the score. .


It's not my intent to "throw stones" or "pile on" the Finnigans. But I can see how my posts may have come across that way. My intent is for Tom to realize that his entitlement mentality that he and his wife displayed on the show, and still shows up here in his posts, is not helping his cause. His family is living in a trailer in a friends driveway for goodness sake. Its time to be a man, stop whining, give up on the "poor Finnigans" schtick, and step up to the plate and provide for his family. Even if it means taking one or more menial labor jobs to pay for food, etc. If he has a job now washing dishes, good for him. He should be commended for making the effort to move forward. But if you read his posts its always someone else's fault or problem, never his or his wife's that put them in this situation. It's maddening.


----------



## uncdrew

JayLev said:


> I joined to post that I watched this episode and it was very depressing. I felt bad for the Finnigan family. I then searched on Google to find out if Tom wrote a book and whether there was more information from A&E to help this family? The only search results were this thread which doesn't seem to have much sympathy for a family that lost their home and savings based on some bad decisions in one of the worst economic recessions in US history.
> 
> I hope the Finnigan family rebounds in time, they may not have the financial stature they once had, but they like many others deserve our compassion, not criticism. If there is any information on a book being released or other ways to help this family - it might be helpful if that was posted.


Part of why there's probably little compassion for them is that:

1. In the last few years, lots of us have lost jobs, had to sell things. And we didn't make the situation worse for ourselves by spending hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's hard to feel bad for people who had the money but spent it. Kind of like how you won't find much sympathy for lottery winners that squander their winnings and are now broke.

2. People are jealous and like to see the wealthy see what it's like to have problems (and not be wealthy).

Those aren't my feelings, but that's my guess as to how many people think.


----------



## UberPoster

Honest ***** said:


> Oh this is rich, the man living in a travel trailer in a friend's driveway accuses me of having the problem. Here's a suggestion for you Tom, get off the computer and get a job (or second one if need be), even if it's a menial labor one that you so disdain, and provide for your family rather than trying to perpetuate the "poor Finnigan" schtick.


Folks, sorry to cut the fun short, but this is my last post. I just can't resist responding to people like this. To you HI, I say, get off Mommy's computer, and clean your room this instant! By the way, your moniker is borderline racist. If I were a native american, I'd be quite insulted.

For all the remaining posters on this blog, I wish to thank you for your comments, and interest. For the record, the Finnigan's have moved to another part of California where they can live in peace. Tom is working (Yes, menial labor), and the family is starting over. They believe in the power of positive thinking, family first, and the American Dream. The children are safe, happy, and wonderfully innocent. Debra and Tom still love each other very much, and will stay together unlike the perfectly perceived Jon and Kate. Casey and Andrew will grow up to be intelligent, well adjusted men, with loving families. Tom is writing his book, and has a lot more to say. Stay tuned. All good wishes.


----------



## 232177

UberPoster said:


> By the way, your moniker is borderline racist. If I were a native american, I'd be quite insulted.


Sorry, you dont get to play the race card if your not of the race thats supposedly offended.



UberPoster said:


> Tom is writing his book, and has a lot more to say.


Best seller, I'm sure . Lots of demand for reading about how the poor Finnigans got ripped off and cheated by the whole world and all their problems were the result of someone else. Just more time wasted that could be spent by Tom doing something productive.


----------



## Hansky

jradosh said:


> Wow... I didn't expect this thread
> 
> Now I'll have to watch the episode... I'd pretty much given up on watching FTH.


My guide only shows 3 upcoming episodes - none of them this ep.


----------



## TheMerk

Hansky said:


> My guide only shows 3 upcoming episodes - none of them this ep.


It's a different show: *Flip This House: Armando to the Rescue*.


----------



## dthmj

I looked for it on the A&E site and found several episodes of Flip this House, but not this one.

Anyone know when it is re-aired?


----------



## sbourgeo

TheMerk said:


> It's a different show: *Flip This House: Armando to the Rescue*.


Hmm, don't see that in my DTiVo guide data at all...


----------



## 232177

UberPoster said:


> Tom suggests avoiding writing letters to reality shows, as you may get what you wish for.


Yes, they may show you for exactly what and who you really are.


----------



## 232177

Simon Says said:


> Well at least for me, the reason I wanted to talk about this is: I am just astounded at this sense of entitlement that so many Americans maintain, even in the face of total adversity. This is about Americans living beyond their means. Sure, who wouldn't want a Mediterranean manse on the coast? Tom claims they were after a "modest remodel", but when you are down to nothing and Deb is still demanding smooth plaster walls and he with his cherry wood floors and stone walls, me thinks these folks were due for a serious realty check up to the very final hour. A modest remodel means paint and new windows and maybe updated lighting and appliances. I would like to know what the Finnigan's consider a "modest remodel"? I believe he said in the show, he wanted "the best". He said this even after the architect died, after the first contractor walked off with their money, after he lost his job. How many signals does this couple need to alert them them that the "best" is not in the cards anymore? Entitlement! Man, this burns people every time.


Very well said Simon. Especially the part about the mediterranean manse - LOL. I couldnt have said it better myself, though not for lack of trying in this thread.


----------



## jones07

TheMerk said:


> It's a different show: *Flip This House: Armando to the Rescue*.


Same show,

*Armando to the Rescue* is just episode 67 of Flip this house.

Don't look like it's being re-aired anytime soon.

http://www.aetv.com/flipthishouse/flip2_episode_guide.jsp?episode=471450


----------



## jradosh

After reading this thread I came home and finally watched the show. Some thoughts (randomly organized and free-flowing)...

1. Armando _is_ a jerk
2. No matter how much editing there was, the Fins said what they said... and it wasn't always in their financial best interest.
3. There wasn't nearly enough information presented in the show to determine (without knowing their finances personally) if they fell into their situation through more bad luck than greed. Clearly it was some of both, but what ratio is undetermined.
4. Their rental house looked expensive compared to (say) an apartment. Again, without knowing why and where it's hard to know if that was another wasteful expense.
5. Whenever I hear someone living in a trailer saying "I'm writing my book" they go down a few pegs in the respect-O-meter.

That's it. If I think of more later I'll post.


----------



## MikeAndrews

Being that dis goof has been trying to sell courses on his "expertise," how desparate does A&E have to be to go back to him and give him a free commercial?

Flip This House jumped the shark when he was on it with his delinquent lease Hummer, his unowned house, the "Plaza" with his name on it where he merely rented an office. 

Now that people who tried to get in on the Flip madness have been foreclosed and gone bankrupt, drive a stake through the heart, close the lid on the coffin, weld it shut, bury it below a salt mine.


----------



## jones07

It was a packed house when I was in the area where he was giving a free real estate seminar over a year ago (pre-house market bust). Don't know how many of his way way overpriced courses he sold, but people showed up to hear him talk. 
He is a Shameless Self Promoter


----------



## robojerk

The show could have been edited to show the Finnigans in a bad light, but here's what I got from the episode.

The Finnigans were broke and had an unfinished home.
They were paying $10K/month for a mortgage.
They were planning to sell the home for $2.2 Million, but earlier in the episode it was said the bank appraised the home (unfinished mind you) to be $600K
The comps which were NOT selling were at 1.7.
The Finnigans were broke but wanted top quality on the flip like the smooth stucco which they couldnt afford and showed how out of touch they are in this situation.
That brick wall appeared to be such a waste of time and money considering that I got the idea that they wanted/needed/had to sell the home once the flip was completed.

I don't have any sympathy for the Finnigans and I loath Armando (he does make good drama though). Considering the house is still on the market (as the show said at the end) it shows that the home is way over priced. I don't understand what Armando was even doing there, yeah he got did something to one of the loans, but it was not on film (his actual conversation) so the facts could have been tweaked or he could have broken some law.

Long story short, if the Finnigans were even remotely aware of the situation they were in they should have just taken cash in hand for the house when they realized they were in trouble. A 10K mortgage + expenses for construction (labor and mats) these people are either crazy rich or crazy stupid.

Does anyone know the address of the house, or a RedFin link?


----------



## speaker city

This is probably the most entertaining thread I've ever read on TCF.


----------



## 232177

robojerk said:


> A 10K mortgage + expenses for construction (labor and mats) these people are either crazy rich or crazy stupid.


Well, since we know they lost the house to foreclosure, it's obvious they are not crazy rich, which leaves only ...


----------



## LTCKAC

I joined just to ask more questions about Tom and Deb Finnigan. I happened to watch the episode and I was stunned by their circumstances. They seemed to be unable to grasp that they were truly, sincerely broke. I wish they hadn't continued to throw what little money they had after something that was not going to work out. It reminded me of the NASDAQ bubble that burst in 2000. People watched their speculative tech stocks go to little or nothing and seemed unable to believe that the party was over. But it was.
Are Tom amd Deb the natural parents of those boys? They seem too old.


----------



## Snappa77

Well Tom is a new poster here he can answer that last question directly.


----------



## 232177

LTCKAC said:


> I joined just to ask more questions about Tom and Deb Finnigan.


You got here just a bit too late. Tom just left and claims he wont be coming back. See his last message #75 in this thread.

EDIT: OOPS, Snappa77 beat me to it.


----------



## jradosh

speaker city said:


> This is probably the most entertaining thread I've ever read on TCF.


I have to say... much better than the episode itself.

But there have been many more entertaining episodes on TCF than this.


----------



## pmyers

uncdrew said:


> Google can't/won't find threads in the happy hour section because you have to be a member to get to that section (to view).
> 
> Before that was the case, we had a Britney Spears thread 7 miles long because of the search result traffic. It was impressive.


You mean like the "Leah Remini is fat" thread?


----------



## Snappa77

pmyers said:


> You mean like the "Leah Remini is fat" thread?


That thread and the Joe Schmo thread are certified Platinum.


----------



## bareyb

Maybe all these new posters are that nut job from FTH. He's obsessive compulsive right? He's probably so scared his meal ticket is going to disappear he spends all day on Google responding to forums looking to pump up the numbers on his show. It appears it's working, because I'll probably watch the episode now.


----------



## Live2Day

I feel that the show may portray a different side to the couple and this may get in the way of what the focus of the show is actually supposed to be--the house. With my spare time I like to take interest in properties around the country to stay in and when vacant, rent them out. I would very much like to know if this property is available, especially knowing the history of the property. I feel so much more compelled to invest in a property knowing that someone once cared very much about it and to invest in a property such as this than a newly built cookie cutter home. If anyone has any information on the property, please post back here.

Cheers


----------



## jradosh

Live2Day said:


> If anyone has any information on the property, please post back here.
> 
> Cheers


I heard that the stucco job wasn't correct for the house type.


----------



## uncdrew

jradosh said:


> I heard that the stucco job wasn't correct for the house type.


...and it's in California somewhere.


----------



## Live2Day

I found the address to the house (if anyone else cares):

1609 S. Ola Vista
San Clemente, CA 92672

It appears that the property was listed through the Mackenzie Advantage Team and a MLS search does not bring it up, interior pictures can be located if you google the address and before clicking the first link click "Cached" next to the URL and it will bring you to a few pictures of the inside. It has a listing price of $1,099,999. 5BR 4BA G3 with a description, "Spectacular ultra luxury Spanish rebuild featuring dazzling ocean views + top-of-the-line accoutrements. Romantic Spanish courtyard entry. Expansive great room/living room boasts rich hardwood flooring + vaulted ceilings with exposed beams. Gorgeous gourmet kitchen with oversized island. Main level bedroom - a great perk. Downstairs maid's quarters/in-law suite. 3 upstairs bedrooms (including HUGE master suite) with ocean views. Bonus/media room/6th bed. Custom lighting throughout. Yamaha Musicast system throughout. THIS HOME IS IN THE FINAL STAGES OF BEING FINISHED - A BRAND NEW, NEVER LIVED IN, LUXURY HOME WITH AN OCEAN VIEW - WOW!". Despite the new information coming up, Trulia.com stated, "1609 S Ola Vis has 2 beds, 1 bath, and approximately 1,140 square feet. The property has a lot size of 4,950 square feet and was built in 1956. 1609 S Ola Vis previously sold for $377,014 on Jul 7, 2009 and $600,000 on Mar 31, 2003".

Think it is a good buy?
Cheers


----------



## uncdrew

I usually use the word "WOW!" in my marketing materials.


----------



## jones07

Damn, I wish I had a extra $1,099,999 laying in my bank account. That house reads like a bargain at that price for California 

Or maybe I'll just go into debt up to my eyeballs and lose it back to the bank after 5 or 6 months 

Link to house
http://www.trulia.com/homes/Califor.../1758353-1609-S-Ola-Vis-San-Clemente-CA-92672


----------



## evaporated

UberPoster said:


> Armando did nothing - I speak from personally knowing the situation.


Did nothing wrong? Or did nothing to help? I think he's a pompous ass, but still entertaining to watch. I liked that one episode where he bounced on the diving board and then FELL IN THE SWAMP POOL, then got out and vomitted. Good times.



UberPoster said:


> I saw the show as Tom and Deb just trying to gracefully get out of a project that went bad. They were not trying to flip a house, they were investing in a house that was to be the place where they put down roots. Obviously the house held value in this economy even with no job? A second mortgage holder was willing to give them a loan under these economic conditions. That would be enough to go on to finish the house. *They were not living beyond their means*, how else could they fund what was to be a modest remodel. They were racing a sinking economy, and I imagine there are more people out there that had a lot less going for them.


WHAT? There are two breadwinners in my home. We make decent money, but I would never live in a place where 6 months or even a year out of work would cause me to lose my home. There are much cheaper homes in California. Suck it up and move somewhere more affordable. Duh.



UberPoster said:


> Yes, I know Tom. * I guess Armando considers a phone call to a mortgage company as him coming to the rescue. * All the real work, including coming up with a construction loan in the middle of a sinking housing market, and managing the construction was left up to the Finnigan's. I can't remembver a Flip episode where Armando is involved where he is so UNINVOLVED.
> 
> The remodel was two years in the making BEFORE Armando came along. It began modestly, but spun out of control due to deaths and contractor incompetence. *The Finnigan's always attempted to keep it modest.* Circumstances outside of their control changed that. So... they did everything they could think of to get out of it. None of this was shown on TV. Seems they have been set up to revive Armando's sinking career.


I don't know how they edited Deb and Tom crying and telling Armando "Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!" after he helped them settle their second mortgage for $75,000 from the $250,000ish that they owed. Maybe CGI? Seriously, the episode may have been edited severely, but don't crap all over that MASSIVE favor he did for them, just because he's a D-bag otherwise.

And as for modesty? GIVE ME A BREAK. Modest homes don't have touch-screen controls for house-wide sound systems. Modest homes don't have open beam ceilings with rich woods, fully tiled bathrooms with $4000 shower doors. If you were standing next to me, I'd seriously have to bonk you V8-style on the head.



UberPoster said:


> They can make it "look like" anything they want. Tom was filmed looking for work, they just chose not to show it. They also chose not to show Tom suffering a stroke, which severely impacted the family, and Tom. Knowing Tom personally, I can tell you he was between a rock and a hard place. No one was hiring, and taking on menial labor would not have paid for their food, let alone finishing the remodel. Even now the family is struggling to survive, and Tom is washing dishes in an area of southern california where cost of living is different than San Clemente. *As for starting a remodel, the money was there, it just spun out of control when the contractor's before Armando botched the remodel.* The remodel occured during good times when everyone had no idea what was around the corner. Of course, this was dismissed by the TV show in one sentence, as bad luck. You should be confused since the story told by the producer's is inaccurate, incomplete, and spun to make it "look like" they want it to. Welcome to reality TV. The sad thing is the Finnigan's are a nice family who deserved better story coverage.


If this was indeed a contractor caused problem to begin with, then let's place the blame with the contractor. If the Finnigans were stupid enough to continue to pay a contractor that was repeatedly missing deadlines, going over budget, and continually procuding shoddy work, then sorry, that's the Finnigans' fault. Yes, the contractor then up and died. Looks like fate decided to take a crap on the Finnigan's. But how does that make them not responsible for their house/mortgage/situation? Bad things happen to people every day. I'm sorry, but pointing the fingers at everyone else for your bad fortune isn't a productive answer.

I feel very sorry for the Finnigans' situation. I really do. They seem to be a nice family. But just because the whole truth wasn't squeezed into the 40-minutes of air-time, doesn't mean that they didn't make some really, REALLY bad decisions.



UberPoster said:


> Certainly entitled to your opinion. I do not agree with most of it. Much of what you comment about Armando has nothing to do with the show, or the Finnigan's. The Finnigan's do not have anything to do with his prior or present reputation, bringing it into your discussion of them is a distortion of the truth.
> 
> Postulating as to who I am also serves no purpose. However, kudos on the amateur detective work (new poster, etc).
> 
> Lastly, the balance of your comments center on what YOU THINK the Finnigan's are like, and whether they require sympathy. It matters not that your preception is wrong. The irony to me is that in our society, Jon and Kate receive accolades for being wonderful people while behind the scenes they tear each other apart and damage the psyches of their innocent children. The Finnigan's, have garbage thrown on them, by a public that slanders a good family who only wanted to provide a nice loving home for their kids.


A nice loving home doesn't have to cost a million dollars.



HerFriend said:


> I have never blogged and only came to this web site because of the personal relationship I have with the Finnigans. I can't believe there are actually people out there who would get on-line and comment about people on a tv show. Give me a break. I am only commenting so that there is some sort of "truth" regarding the character of my dear friends.
> The Finningans are wonderful people and the show did NOT portray them in a true light. They have never spoken unkindly about anyone involved with the show especially Armando. *If Armando was to "Rescue", he certainly failed.* The Finnigans never professed to be professional flippers. *They were remodeling their home and fell victims to circumstance and the economy.* When they began their project they had more than enough CASH to complete it and an income to survive in a nice lifestyle. I know there are people out there who can't understand that some people live well and stay within their means. Oh and by the way, Debra is a garage sale girl. She is not snobby and has always loved finding a treasure on a Saturday morning. I don't think she has paid full price for anything in the 10 years that I have known her. Tom and Deb have worked hard all of their lives to reach their goal/dreams. They are not selfish nor unappreciative. They have always shared what they had and helped those that they could.


So Armando didn't help them to rip off the second mortgage company?? Because from what I saw, they were all very happy to have been relieved of somewhere in the neighborhood of $200,000 to the *BANK'S EXPENSE*. Funny how no one has commented on what that must be like for the bank. I know I'd be super pissed if I'd loaned someone money, and then they wiggled their way out of it, only to go out and get another loan.



UberPoster said:


> The American Dream has become a tragedy. We as a society have really been accustomed to living beyond our means. I do hope the best for the Finnigans.
> 
> The economic melt down last year, who could have predicted the total melt down would have been so far reaching? Everyone was scared to spend a dime. Our remodel business came to a complete standstill as far as new jobs. Last year was the worst I have ever seen in twenty years. Trying to convince my customers to embark on a remodel was like asking people to hang art on the titanic. There was a complete standstill in the remodel business.
> 
> I bet in hind site the Finnigans would have been much happier in that quaint cottage than to be completely out of house and home.
> 
> The American Dream has become a tragedy. We as a society have really been accustomed to living beyond our means. I do hope the best for the Finnigans.
> 
> No it was not a modest remodel - The Finnigan's carefully planned and budgeted for a phased appoach to rebuilding the home over time. However, their contractor blew their plans to smithereens. One year into the project, the contractor had exhausted their contractual budget, with only a fraction of the work completed. A partner of the company came to their home and declared the company was bankrupt and the contractor who was in charge of the remodel was dying of brain cancer. Leavin g the Finnigan's high and dry. *The contractor walked away scott free.* Turns out it was worse than that. Most of the work done during the previous year had to be completely redone because the city would not pass inspections for theiir shoddy workmanship. Tom spent 6 months and an additional $100,000 (ther last of their reserve cash) just to get it to where the TV show picked up. This is when he lost his job, and had a stroke. None of this was even mentioned on the show. All of this occurred more than a year ago, when the meltdown was getting into full swing. You have no idea what a train wreck the house was when they bought it. That quaint house you saw on TV did not start out that way. They made it that way through hard work at their own hands. These are not superficial lazy people. Since the family was too large to live in this tiny house, they tried to sell (before the bubble burst) but there was no interest due to its limited family accomodations. It was back to the remodel after that. There's a lot more to this story, I guess the show spent more time dramatizing small character flaws, instead of telling the real story. Too bad. They missed a great opportunity to warn people about slimy contractors, blind trust, and innocent mistakes.


I'm sorry, didn't the contractor *DIE*? How is that walking away scott-free?



tomsbestfriend said:


> I am just going to do this one post and will not be replying but I felt as Tom's best friend and best man at his wedding I wanted to say a few things. First, everyone is entitled to their opinions and if all I knew about Tom was how he was presented on the show I might have some similar opinions. I was out in California for some of the filming so I do know what was included and what was left out and much was left out. I can honestly say I have never met anyone who is more humble, thoughtful, and amazingly unselfish as Tom. He is as unpretentious as it gets and is always trying to please everyone that he cares about. Yes, he made some bad decisions but if you notice..... he never tried to take advantage of anyone, never tried to do anything that would hurt anyone else. He is a very smart man who started his own company and became very successful before some unfortunate events changed his life completely. Again, everyone is entitled to their opinion but I wanted to pass on the true story of who is Tom Finnigan......I would never want anyone else as a best friend.


I don't think anyone is really questioning the human character of the Finnigans. I think this whole thread has devolved into how stupid they were. No ifs, ands or buts. They got themselves into that mess by making risky decisions, and when it all came crumbling down, they wanted to play the victim. I'm sorry, but I follow the belief system of "put on your big girl panties and deal with it". They should have walked away a LONG time ago.

Because they decided to take out yet ANOTHER loan, after having their original second mortgage negotiated down almost $200,000, they ended up screwing yet ANOTHER mortgage company, as well as the bank that owned the first mortgage. (Well, actually, the bank with the first mortgage is getting a $1,000,000 home in leui of unpaid mortgage, so maybe they came out ahead.) At any rate, 3 banks got screwed, and the Finnigans lost all their savings. 



UberPoster said:


> And BTW - *The stucco finish was not solely an aesthetic decision - It was a decision that had a lot of impact on the value of the home - This finish is associated with the historic Spanish style unique to San Clemente. *Debra had researched this all in detail, and felt it could hurt the value of the home, not to mention veer away from the Architect's original design. Did she feel entitled? No, she felt empowered to do the research on the home she loved. Especially when the Finnigan's were footing the bill. She was also aware that Oz came from a region of Southern California where stucco finishes are different. So his estimate was very high compared to local stucco people whose estimates were lower. Oz did not like having subcontractors who were outside his sphere of influence, so the Finnigan's had to use his people even though they were higher priced, and the finish was not smooth. The Finnigan;s were not being elitist, they were trying to get the most for THEIR money. But they had to play the reality TV game, and lo and behold, were made to look unappreciative and foolish. Unfairly.


#1 - Just because you think something needs to be one way vs another, doesn't mean that you can just throw all ideas about money out the window regardless of your financial situation. If you can't afford the house, you CAN'T AFFORD THE HOUSE. Sit down and re-address all the upgrades, and see where you can SAVE money. I couldn't believe I was watching that scene where Deb was pinching the contractor about making his stucco guys do the texture the way she wanted it and have _someone else just pick up the cost_. REALLY? JUST GIVE IT TO HER? FOR FREE? JUST BECAUSE SHE THINKS SHE DESERVES IT? I swear. I didn't feel the entitlement argument would have been valid until that point in the show. This is a woman who sold her jewelry to come up with a mortgage payment. After screwing one bank out of $200,000. And she's fighting over stucco finish? And why was Oz her only option? Did she sign a contract with him that forced her to use only him for all work on the house? If so, then I can understand why she didn't shop around for cheaper labor on the stucco finish. But if she didn't, then she should have been doing her homework and been researching other companies.

#2 - I don't have a number two.

This show disgusted me all the way around. It may have been spun in a negative light on the Finnigans, but let's face it. They aren't entirely innocent in this situation.

For what it's worth, the kids are cute, the family seems mentally stable, and I'm sure once Tom (and maybe Deb, too) finds another job, they are the type of people that will bounce back. They just need to tone down the greed a little. Sorry, don't mean to be harsh, but it just seemed.... greedy.


----------



## Snappa77

> This Single-Family Home located at 1609 South Ola Vista, San Clemente CA sold for $377,014 on Jul 7, 2009.


Holy crap.

That is a HUGE difference from the amount Tom and Deb wanted.


----------



## evaporated

Snappa77 said:


> Holy crap.
> 
> That is a HUGE difference from the amount Tom and Deb wanted.


Where did that figure come from? I think that was before the remodel, because I want to say that was the number they gave for what the Finnigans purchased the property for.


----------



## Mikeyis4dcats

evaporated said:


> Where did that figure come from? I think that was before the remodel, because I want to say that was the number they gave for what the Finnigans purchased the property for.


I would guess thats the amount the bank settled for at foreclosure.


----------



## uncdrew

evaporated said:


> Where did that figure come from? I think that was before the remodel, because I want to say that was the number they gave for what the Finnigans purchased the property for.


Hmm... the date is just last month though.

Something seems amiss.

That value is much less than my current house and my current house isn't that nice (and isn't in California).


----------



## JYoung

uncdrew said:


> Hmm... the date is just last month though.
> 
> Something seems amiss.
> 
> That value is much less than my current house and my current house isn't that nice (and isn't in California).


The house in San Clemente.
Drew, I think that you're familiar with the fact that that is a "higher end" neighborhood.

You couldn't get a tarpaper shack in San Clemente for $377,014.


----------



## uncdrew

JYoung said:


> The house in San Clemente.
> Drew, I think that you're familiar with the fact that that is a "higher end" neighborhood.
> 
> You couldn't get a tarpaper shack in San Clemente for $377,014.


Right.

So is it not true? I'm confused.


----------



## jradosh

I suspect the poster (Live2day) is FOS


----------



## RonDawg

In regards to the last known sale price of the house, while I never saw the episode in question, if the house was not in liveable condition at the time of sale, that would explain the fire sale price.


----------



## sampsas

Ok I have just finished reading this entire thread.. WOW! I do not watch that show anymore as it has grown to a farse!!! As for Tom and Deb... Good luck in the future if you keep the mentality that has been displayed.... To try and flip a house is really really hard, especially in these times, no matter when you started the flip.. Once you see the market starting to go way down as it has why continue??? LEAVE, MOVE ON!!!! My mom and dad sold a house in Titusville, FL area 3 years ago for a good profit and has since moved back to that area and can rebuy that same house for a lot less then they orig. payed for the house in the first place!!!!! Word to the wise (well unwise in this case) watch your budget, the market trends and total cost of flipping for what you want and if something isn't right....wait for it........ DON'T DO IT!!! or if you have started then STOP OR BACK AWAY!!!!!!! I live in Canada (lived here for 11 years) haved owned 3 homes... First one we paid $130,000 did minor upgrades totaling $7000 sold 1 year later for a $40000 profit!!! Have put in around $40000 into our current home over the course of 5 years raised the value by $50000 but do not intend to sell as we have 90 acres of land and my wife wants horses.. Anyway.. DON'T flip if you have no clue what you are getting into!!!!!


----------



## bareyb

sampsas said:


> Ok I have just finished reading this entire thread.. WOW! I do not watch that show anymore as it has grown to a farse!!! As for Tom and Deb... Good luck in the future if you keep the mentality that has been displayed.... To try and flip a house is really really hard, especially in these times, no matter when you started the flip.. Once you see the market starting to go way down as it has why continue??? LEAVE, MOVE ON!!!! My mom and dad sold a house in Titusville, FL area 3 years ago for a good profit and has since moved back to that area and can rebuy that same house for a lot less then they orig. payed for the house in the first place!!!!! Word to the wise (well unwise in this case) watch your budget, the market trends and total cost of flipping for what you want and if something isn't right....wait for it........ DON'T DO IT!!! or if you have started then STOP OR BACK AWAY!!!!!!! I live in Canada (lived here for 11 years) haved owned 3 homes... First one we paid $130,000 did minor upgrades totaling $7000 sold 1 year later for a $40000 profit!!! Have put in around $40000 into our current home over the course of 5 years raised the value by $50000 but do not intend to sell as we have 90 acres of land and my wife wants horses.. Anyway.. DON'T flip if you have no clue what you are getting into!!!!!


If you don't mind me asking... And this is for any of the new folks who have recently shown up. How did you guys hear about this thread? Are you all on another forum somewhere and this was a link? I've never seen so many "new" folks show up for a single thread all at once.


----------



## Simon Says

[QUOTE;
"Their rental house looked expensive compared to (say) an apartment. Again, without knowing why and where it's hard to know if that was another wasteful expense."[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that rental house was pretty comfortable digs. In outside shots when they filmed the trip over their, it looked like it was also close to the beach? Not quite a conservative move for the Finnegan's while they were dumping hard earned cash into the money pit.

God, looking back in hind site, if it was my wife and kids, I'd put the trailer on the lot and rough it for awhile, work two or three jobs between my wife and myself, scale back the plan and move in! Other people have lived in worse conditions while remodeling and spread it out over the years till they can afford to get it all done.

I stand by my point, we Americans live in a spoiled society where we are not accustomed to living on less. We could not hold a candle to our ancestors who had to live on less, where families lived in one room while they homestead their land and built their own farms. Who didn't have great, great grandparents that lived in poor conditions while they built something for their family? This recession has been a real eye opener for all of us to realize how easy we all had it.


----------



## Simon Says

Googled it. Anyone know if this house sold?


----------



## Simon Says

Simon Says said:


> Googled it. Anyone know if this house sold?


Just saw the post on the sell price in , googled zillo to check it. Sold at $377,014. FAQ: It went from a 2+1, to a 5+ 4, from 1140 sq ft to 4791 sq ft. Yup, that sound like a modest remodel. 
Not! 
ZESTIMATE®: $1,184,000
* Value Range: $888,000 - $1,326,080


----------



## sampsas

bareyb said:


> If you don't mind me asking... And this is for any of the new folks who have recently shown up. How did you guys hear about this thread? Are you all on another forum somewhere and this was a link? I've never seen so many "new" folks show up for a single thread all at once.


Actually I joined BEFORE the show but haven't posted a lot as I wanted to read as much about upgarding my recently aquired Tivo Series2 DT before asking repeated questions...


----------



## Jebberwocky!

bareyb said:


> If you don't mind me asking... And this is for any of the new folks who have recently shown up. How did you guys hear about this thread? Are you all on another forum somewhere and this was a link? I've never seen so many "new" folks show up for a single thread all at once.





Simon Says said:


> Googled it. Anyone know if this house sold?


I googled wwwDOTflipthislawsuitDOTcom and this was the only link listed.


----------



## evaporated

There are several comments about whether the Finnigans lived within their means. Some say they were doing a modest remodel while others said they were trying to live way outside their financial status.

I just wanted to point out the obvious. If you take out a loan for a home (I'm guilty of this mysefl), then officially, you are living outside your means. 

100 years ago, 5&#37; of the population had a loan against their homestead. Today, 95% of people have mortgages. 

Yes, we are a population of people who believe we deserve more than we can afford, and we want it yesterday. In the case of the Finnigans, it is exacerbated because not only did they feel that they deserved this home, but they didn't have the money for it, nor jobs to back it up. They continued to dig themselves a deeper financial hole instead of cutting their losses and walking away. Anyone who thinks otherwise, is either blind, ignorant, or just plain defiant.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

I'm not seeing what you mean - and I don't understand it either!


----------



## robojerk

The house didn't sell at $377,014. It went into foreclosure which is not a sale.

I think why people are so emotional over this topic is because during the housing boom, to flip a house of profit all you really needed to do was buy a house, slap some paint on it, and by the time you went back to the market the comps went up. It was easy money and shows like Flip This House just fueled the fire. People like the Fannigins who used their house like an ATM (pulling out all the equity) I have no pity for.

The Southern California area is in denial when it comes to it's housing prices. Their still way too high. The only people that will argue against me are Realtors (they need to sell to make a living), people that just bought a house, and people still believing that their 1,000 sq/foot single family home is worth over $700K and that prices will soon come back to what they were during the bubble.


----------



## jones07

I don't understand how the avg joe can afford a house in Southern California. Where do the blue collar workers live?


----------



## uncdrew

robojerk said:


> The house didn't sell at $377,014. It went into foreclosure which is not a sale.


Did someone buy the house for $377k or not? That's what we're trying to figure out.


----------



## uncdrew

jones07 said:


> I don't understand how the avg joe can afford a house in Southern California. Where do the blue collar workers live?


There have been some very interesting articles over the years about how the firemen of San Francisco (for one example) can't afford to live in the towns they work in, and how long it takes them to get to work.


----------



## RonDawg

uncdrew said:


> Did someone buy the house for $377k or not? That's what we're trying to figure out.


As it's currently for sale for over a million dollars, with the stipulation that it's "a work in progress", it sounds like a contractor (or a flipper with the sufficient financial resources to pull it off) bought it.


----------



## RonDawg

jones07 said:


> I don't understand how the avg joe can afford a house in Southern California. Where do the blue collar workers live?


A long, long way away. 30 miles is a common commute, with 60 miles not all that unheard of. An area known as the "Inland Empire" (San Bernardino and Riverside counties) is popular with long-distance LA commuters because of its housing prices, and was one of the hardest hit areas when the bottom fell out of the market. Another one is the Antelope Valley in the far northern reaches of Los Angeles County.

I know, or have heard of, people who commute from as far away Victorville and Rosamond (about 80 miles one way) and even Bakersfield (about 120 miles).


----------



## robojerk

RonDawg said:


> A long, long way away. 30 miles is a common commute, with 60 miles not all that unheard of. An area known as the "Inland Empire" (San Bernardino and Riverside counties) is popular with long-distance LA commuters because of its housing prices, and was one of the hardest hit areas when the bottom fell out of the market. Another one is the Antelope Valley in the far northern reaches of Los Angeles County.
> 
> I know, or have heard of, people who commute from as far away Victorville and Rosamond (about 80 miles one way) and even Bakersfield (about 120 miles).


I live (renting) in Orange County and want to buy a home. My wife and I make good money, but there's no way in hell we could buy here unless it's a tiny condo or we move to some shady part of Santa Ana.

My parents bought their house (small 3,2) in Huntington beach in the late 70's for $30K which was well within their means. During the bubble they could have sold it for $800K. Honestly I feel like the baby boomers and generation X have totally screwed my generation over.

Check out http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/ if you want to look at how bad the housing market hit the SoCal area.



RonDawg said:


> As it's currently for sale for over a million dollars, with the stipulation that it's "a work in progress", it sounds like a contractor (or a flipper with the sufficient financial resources to pull it off) bought it.


There's no way they sold it that cheap. They foreclosed on it and when the property title changed hands the bank(s) that now own it had to report the value of the house to the MLS.


----------



## RonDawg

robojerk said:


> There's no way they sold it that cheap. They foreclosed on it and when the property title changed hands the bank(s) that now own it had to report the value of the house to the MLS.


The house sold in 2003 for $600k, so $377k is not out of line for the exact same house sold post-crash, much less one in foreclosure. Mine went from $525k peak to $375k at the bottom of the market without a thing being done to it other than normal maintenance.

As I mentioned above, if it was repossessed in an unliveable state, it's not hard to see why it was valued for so little in foreclosure, even if a lot of square footage was added in the meantime.


----------



## jones07

robojerk said:


> I live (renting) in Orange County and want to buy a home. My wife and I make good money, but there's no way in hell we could buy here unless it's a tiny condo or we move to some shady part of Santa Ana.
> .


Thanks for your reply. Guess I'll be staying on the east coast a while longer.


----------



## 232177

Sorry Tom, looks like your "poor Finnigan" schtick isnt working.

http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/index.php?showtopic=3128626&st=1440


----------



## robojerk

/Offtopic

My Tivo picked up a recommended show call "Buy Me". I never seen it before and I just wanted some background noise while I was cleaning. The episode was called "Zen and Now". It was about a well off couple that moved into a small quiet house ($350K approx) but then the wife got some remodeling ideas in her head. $2 million dollars later, she had built them a asian inspired zen masterpiece that they could no longer afford.

Anyone else see it? I thought that lady was insane. If the term "put a leash on your wife" ever had an acceptable moment to be said this would be the case.


----------



## RonDawg

"Buy Me" is actually a pretty good series. For those not aware it's a Canadian production (though it's featured some US cities like Denver), dealing with the trials and tribulations from the seller's viewpoint. In the US it airs on HGTV. 

I haven't seen this particular episode in question but a lot of the people featured in that program are ridiculously unrealistic in their expectations. If the comp's in your area say $200k, and you list yours for $250k, it better be very, very special or don't be surprised if there's zero interest in the property.


----------



## jones07

Honest ***** said:


> Sorry Tom, looks like your "poor Finnigan" schtick isnt working.
> 
> http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/index.php?showtopic=3128626&st=1440


Thanks for the link. 
People there seem to see this the the same way as most do here.


----------



## 232177

"Armando to the rescue" episode showing again today (11/14/09) at 2:00 pm (eastern) on A&E.


----------



## Snappa77

Haha. I almost forgot about his thread. Thanks for the heads up.

Does anyone know the status of that house now? And the status of Tom and his wife?

I know this is old news now but I read in that thread from the link HonestInjun provided that *Richard and Ginger are married now and expecting*. WOW. We always thought there was something going on there. It seems so.....eww (as my kid would say).


----------



## sbourgeo

Thanks, I finally got to watch this too.

I thought Armando came off pretty well this episode, which I didn't think was possible.  I also feel bad about how things ended up for the Finnigans, but in the end they are solely responsible for their predicament.


----------



## UberPoster

sbourgeo said:


> Thanks, I finally got to watch this too.
> 
> I thought Armando came off pretty well this episode, which I didn't think was possible.  I also feel bad about how things ended up for the Finnigans, but in the end they are solely responsible for their predicament.


Most of the "facts" were skewed or completely omitted by the TV Show. The Finnigan's never intended to Flip their house for profit. They had good jobs, etc and remodeled to add space for their children. When things went awry with the first contractor, they became enmeshed, then Tom lost his job, and had a severe stroke. The sale price of $377,000 is not accurate. The private money lender pulled a fast one using tactics that most of you would have a hard time following. They will wind up profiting on the Finnigan's dream. Your smug comments on entitlement, etc are a knee jerk reaction to a 20 minute TV show. They bear no semblance of who the Finnigan's are, or what they went through.


----------



## Snappa77

UberPoster said:


> Most of the "facts" were skewed or completely omitted by the TV Show. The Finnigan's never intended to Flip their house for profit. They had good jobs, etc and remodeled to add space for their children. When things went awry with the first contractor, they became enmeshed, then Tom lost his job, and had a severe stroke. The sale price of $377,000 is not accurate. The private money lender pulled a fast one using tactics that most of you would have a hard time following. They will wind up profiting on the Finnigan's dream. Your smug comments on entitlement, etc are a knee jerk reaction to a 20 minute TV show. They bear no semblance of who the Finnigan's are, or what they went through.


Tom,

If what you say is true then I find that worse. That after all that you were trying to add all those extra costly features. But we been thru all that already with this thread.

Moving on.... How are you and Deb doing now?


----------



## robojerk

LOL
A re-run bringing up old drama on the forums I see.


----------



## sbourgeo

UberPoster said:


> Your smug comments on entitlement, etc are a knee jerk reaction to a 20 minute TV show. They bear no semblance of who the Finnigan's are, or what they went through.


I said nothing of the kind. I'm sorry this happened to you and your family Tom, but no one held a gun to your head and forced you to borrow and spend money you didn't have on that money pit.


----------



## 232177

I reconsidered and deleted the response I had originally posted here. Tom still doesnt get it, and probably never will. Anyone who saw the episode saw the real Finnigan's and their entitlement mentality in its full glory.


----------



## uncdrew

sbourgeo said:


> I said nothing of the kind. I'm sorry this happened to you and your family Tom, but no one held a gun to your head and forced you to borrow and spend money you didn't have on that money pit.


I liked the "private lender pulled fast ones we wouldn't understand" line.

It's a loan. It's all in the writing. Did they read it before signing? Either the lender broke the law or didn't.


----------



## RonDawg

Honest ***** said:


> I reconsidered and deleted the response I had originally posted here.


I don't know why, there was nothing against TOS that I could remember.


----------



## 232177

RonDawg said:


> I don't know why, there was nothing against TOS that I could remember.


The message, posted in haste after reading Tom's last message above, was a rebuttal of some of Tom's points. I didnt see the point in bothering to argue it with him any longer. Uberposter Tom's "poor me" schtick coupled with the entitlement mentality really burns me up, but I think I've adequately made that point too already. There's no hope that he's going to see the light so why bother. If he wishes to continue to believe it's everyones fault but his, so be it. Everyone who saw the episode saw the real Finnigan's and can form their own opinions. I've learned not to argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.


----------



## StacieH

UberPoster said:


> The Finnigan's never intended to Flip their house for profit...Your smug comments on entitlement, etc are a knee jerk reaction to a 20 minute TV show. They bear no semblance of who the Finnigan's are, or what they went through.





Honest ***** said:


> Everyone who saw the episode saw the real Finnigan's and can form their own opinions.


Oh. My. God. Finnigan's what? In this context, it's Finnigans, Finnigans....*FINNIGANS*!

I don't usually comment on things like this because there are plenty of other grammar and spelling Nazis on this board, but I just scrolled through 5 pages of this. Sorry, but if you two want to come here, fight and sling insults back and forth, and seem the least bit intelligent, PLEASE use correct punctuation!


----------



## 232177

StacieH said:


> Oh. My. God. Finnigan's what? In this context, it's Finnigans, Finnigans....*FINNIGANS*!
> 
> I don't usually comment on things like this because there are plenty of other grammar and spelling Nazis on this board, but I just scrolled through 5 pages of this. Sorry, but if you two want to come here, fight and sling insults back and forth, and seem the least bit intelligent, PLEASE use correct punctuation!


 Whatever. That time of the month, eh?


----------



## Jebberwocky!

StacieH said:


> Sorry, but if you two want to come here, fight and sling insults back and forth, and seem the least bit intelligent


isn't this an oxymoron?


----------



## StacieH

Jebberwocky! said:


> isn't this an oxymoron?


LOL! Good point, especially considering after the "comeback." Underwhelming, to say the least.


----------



## ilovereality

Saw this episode (well, part of it) today, googled 'finnigan family flip' and wound up here.

Interesting thread.


----------



## marksman

GDamn it. Why did I never see this thread before.

I don't even know if I ever saw this episode. Most Armando episodes of the show automatically got erased from my memory when they were over.

All these people joining up TCF just to argue about this... I am so sad I missed it all...

but so glad I can read it all now.


----------



## uncdrew

marksman said:


> GDamn it. Why did I never see this thread before.
> 
> I don't even know if I ever saw this episode. Most Armando episodes of the show automatically got erased from my memory when they were over.
> 
> All these people joining up TCF just to argue about this... I am so sad I missed it all...
> 
> but so glad I can read it all now.


We would have enjoyed your participation.


----------



## sungko

Well I'm glad I wasn't the one bumping this gem of a thread. This repeated today and was the first time I've watched this episode. (I know I only have 3 posts including this one but the other two were tivo related)

What uberposter/Tom says they neglected to show on this episode was actually mentioned in the beginning. He says in the thread they didn't mention the stroke or the contractors dying / walking about from the job. Nothing that uberposter posted contradicts with how the show portray the Finnigans outside of Tom trying to find a job.

I understood why she wanted the stucco (for the value of the house) and not just mere vanities sake. That contractor telling them it was not worth it the first time should have been the end of the discussion.


----------



## marksman

Haha this was on this past weekend again so I recorded it again, and am now actually watching it.

How old is that couple? They seem old to have a 2.5 year old and 4.5 year old.

Also I like in the beginning when Armando says the guy has "Allusions of Grandeur". WTH.

edit: Also was fun to go back and read this thread again.

I would like to point out to the long gone "uberposter" and defender of Tom and Debra, that it was not their money being spent on their remodel or paid to Oz, it was the banks money. They didn't pay for any of that. The bank did. So claiming they were footing the bill while in the model of a wild goose chase crap shoot, it is a little disingenuous.


----------



## jneugeba

I cannot believe I missed this thread!!!! I usually just FF through most of the Armando eps, and I don't think I saw this one. Hopefully it will reair again at some point. This thread was great though!!! Did we ever get a finally tally on new memebers for this thread?


----------



## DarkShado

You know what I am watching that Episode where Amando comes 
to the resuce of the Finnigan's. This episode just aired again on April 23 2011
on A&E. 

And i would like to say YES the Finnigan's were living well beyond their means! 

Episode 67 - Armando to the Rescue

you know what the Finnigans' were just idiots to Armando and his wife 
Veronica I get mad every time I see this episode.

The Finnigans screwed everything up right from the beginning and 
fought with Armando right from the beginng about everything. 


Armando got a huge part of the loan forgiven and then they turn around 
and don't make a mortgage payment. That is just a slap in the face right there 

Armando is trying to help them and get the load reduced and they turn 
around and don't pay the mortgage

Then Mrs. Finnigan refused to budge on the stucco even though it would save 
them tens of thounds of dollars to not go with that smooth stucco, 
she fought Armando constantly

about that. They wanted everything high end when they were already in 
debt up to their eyeballs and could barely complete the house as it is. She 
was just stubbon and refused to compromise. I don't understand what part 
of YOU ARE BROKE doesn't she understand they don't have any room 
for the high end stuff in that house when they were already over 
1.5 million dollars in debt.

Then the Finnigans' too a week build that stupid brick wall which really as
they said in the Episode doesn't add anything to the value of the house at
all. It was actually quite ugly.

Then the Finnigans' were suppose to be ordering the doors and held up job 
even more. The contactrator said that it was in the Finnigan's part of the 
contract to order the doors and they never did holding up the 
contractor again.

Then the final straw was that the Finnigans' wanted to list the house at 2 
million dollars when they house was not even close to being worth that 
and again fought Armando on that and threatened to walk away.

I mean come on Armando knew the house wasn't worth no 2 million 
dollars and he was right!

I mean the Finnigan's were just idiots to Armando and his wife though 
the whole show! I am surprised Armando put up with them as long as 
he did. 

The Finnigan's were irresponsible and you know what It was 
probably best that they did lose the house. They really didn't deserve it!

The Finnigans' acted like children though out that whole episode and are
irresponsible and I don't think that they really should be home owners.
Go rent an apartment some where that is more your style Finnigans'


----------



## Goochie

This episode brought me to tears. 2009 was an awful year for so many people.
How are the Finnegans doing now?


----------



## wendiness1

They're baaaaaccccccckkkkkk.


----------



## RonDawg

wendiness1 said:


> They're baaaaaccccccckkkkkk.


The Finnigans got the house back?


----------



## jradosh

wendiness1 said:


> They're baaaaaccccccckkkkkk.


Funny... I saw this episode re-airing and I wondered to myself if it would re-spark the thread. I guess it did. 

So... which on is Mr. Finnegan again?


----------



## jneugeba

I saw that I had posted in the thread and though "now why in the world did I post to that thread." How quickly I remembered!!!


----------



## lucky1nes

Something about this episode made me check into this situation further.

The house forclosed with a bid of $300,000 ish-that was the 3rd mortgage holder who forclosed.

They then took out a loan for $857,000 (probably paid the first and 2nd off) with Wells Fargo and still own it today.

What a deal for the "investor" who lent them the funds to complete the construction.

The fact that anybody would negotiate a short payoff on the 2nd then take out a $300,000 3rd is in itself a criminal act. It's called mortgage fraud.

This situation is a prime example of exactly what happened in the mortgage meltdown.

The finnigan's had been in and out of foreclosure since 2007. This is all public record.

Hopefully thay have since realized that therre were many people in their situation that have since lost their homes after being given loans that they did not qualify for.

Property History 1609 S OLA VISTA, SAN CLEMENTE, CA 92672-4341 

Prior Transfer - 03/09/2010 
Recording Date: 03/09/2010 Document#: 2010000112072 
Price: $0.00 Document Type: Intrafamily Transfer or Dissolution 
First TD: $857,500.00 Type of Sale: Non-Arms Length Transfer 
Lender Name: WELLS FARGO BANK NA 
Buyer Name: KHERSONSKY, OLEG; KHERSONSKY, ALEXANDER Buyer Vesting: Joint Tenancy 
Seller Name: KHERSONSKY, OLEG; KHERSONSKY, ALEXANDER 
Legal Description: Lot Number: 44
Block: 2
Subdivision: SPANISH VILLAGE
Tract Number: 852
Map Ref: MP26 PG17-21
City / Muni / Twp: SAN CLEMENTE


Prior Transfer - 07/08/2009 
Recording Date: 07/08/2009 Document#: 2009000361288 
Price: $0.00 Document Type: Intrafamily Transfer or Dissolution 
First TD: $0.00 Type of Sale: Non-Arms Length Transfer 
Lender Name: 
Buyer Name: KHERSONSKY, OLEG; KERSONSKY, ALEXANDER Buyer Vesting: Joint Tenancy 
Seller Name: KHERSONSKY, OLEG 
Legal Description: Lot Number: 44
Block: 2
Tract Number: 852
Map Ref: MB26 PG17-21
City / Muni / Twp: SAN CLEMENTE


Prior Transfer - 07/07/2009 
Recording Date: 07/07/2009 Document#: 2009000358876 
Price: $377,014.00 Document Type: Trustee's Deed 
First TD: $0.00 Type of Sale: Full Amount on Deed 
Lender Name: 
Buyer Name: KHERSONSKY, Buyer Vesting: N/A 
Seller Name: FINNIGAN JR, THOMAS; FINNIGAN, DEBRA 
Legal Description: Lot Number: 44
Block: 2
Tract Number: 852
Map Ref: MB26 PG17-21
City / Muni / Twp: SAN CLEMENTE


Foreclosure Record - 05/29/2009 
Recording Date: 05/29/2009 Document#: 2009000276320 
Document Type: Notice of Sale (aka Notice of Trustee's Sale) 
Auction Location: 700 CIVIC CENTER DR W 
Auction Date/Time: 06/25/2009 12:00 P.M. 
Min. Bid Amount: $343,101.00 
Beneficiary Name: , 
Loan Date: 20080925 Loan Amount: 0 
Lender Type: Not Known Borrowers Name: 
Vesting: N/A 
Legal Description: 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Foreclosure Record - 05/26/2009 
Recording Date: 05/26/2009 Document#: 2009000264303 
Document Type: Notice of Rescission 
Min. Bid Amount: $0.00 
Beneficiary Name: , 
Lender Type: Not Known Borrowers Name: 
Vesting: N/A 
Legal Description: 

Foreclosure Record - 05/12/2009 
Recording Date: 05/12/2009 Document#: 2009000236972 
Document Type: Notice of Sale (aka Notice of Trustee's Sale) 
Auction Location: 401-411 E CHAPMAN AVE 
Auction Date/Time: 06/01/2009 10:00 A.M. 
Min. Bid Amount: $598,246.00 
Beneficiary Name: , 
Loan Date: 20050518 Loan Amount: 0 
Lender Type: Not Known Borrowers Name: 
Vesting: N/A 
Legal Description: 

Foreclosure Record - 02/27/2009 
Recording Date: 02/27/2009 Document#: 2009000094138 
Document Type: Notice of Default 
Min. Bid Amount: $0.00 
Beneficiary Name: NEW HAVEN FINANCIAL 
Beneficiary Name: FINNIGAN JR, THOMAS; FINNIGANDEBRA 
Trustee Names: NEW HAVEN FINANCIAL INC 
Mailing Address: 19510 VENTURA BLVD 214 TARZANA CA 91356 
Trustee Phone: (818) 708-7272 
TS#: 09-24498 Loan Doc #: 2008000450813 
Loan Date: 20080925 Loan Amount: 330000 
Contact Name: NEW HAVEN FINANCIAL 
Attention: RELIABLE TRUST DEED SERVICES 
Mailing Address: 19510 VENTURA BLVD 214 TARZANA CA 91356 
Lender Type: Not Known Borrowers Name: 
Vesting: N/A 
Legal Description: 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Property History 1609 S OLA VISTA, SAN CLEMENTE, CA 92672-4341 

Foreclosure Record - 02/11/2009 
Recording Date: 02/11/2009 Document#: 2009000063834 
Document Type: Notice of Default 
Min. Bid Amount: $0.00 
Beneficiary Name: CAL WESTERN RECONVEYANCE CORP 
Beneficiary Name: FINNIGAN JR, THOMAS; FINNIGANDEBRA 
Trustee Names: CAL WESTERN RECONVEYANCE CORP 
Mailing Address: 525 E MAIN ST EL CAJON CA 92022-9004 
Trustee Phone: (619) 590-9200 
TS#: 1197272-14 Loan Doc #: 2005000382900 
Loan Date: 20050518 Loan Amount: 600000 
Contact Name: CAL WESTERN RECONVEYANCE CORP 
Attention: 
Mailing Address: 525 E MAIN ST EL CAJON CA 92022 
Lender Type: Not Known Borrowers Name: 
Vesting: N/A 
Legal Description: 

Prior Transfer - 00/00/2009 
Recording Date: 00/00/2009 Document#: 2009-00361288 
Price: $0.00 Document Type: N/A 
First TD: $0.00 Type of Sale: Per Assessor Transaction History 
Lender Name: N/A 
Buyer Name: KERSONSKY, OLEG Buyer Vesting: N/A 
Seller Name: N/A 
Legal Description: Tract Number: 852
Legal Brief Description: N TR 852 BLK 2 LOT 44


Foreclosure Record - 10/06/2008 
Recording Date: 10/06/2008 Document#: 2008000465181 
Document Type: Notice of Rescission 
Min. Bid Amount: $0.00 
Beneficiary Name: , 
Lender Type: Not Known Borrowers Name: 
Vesting: N/A 
Legal Description: 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mortgage Record - 09/25/2008 
Recording Date: 09/25/2008 Document#: 2008000450813 
Loan Amount: $330,000.00 Loan Type: Unknown 
TD Due Date: Type of Financing: 
Lender Name: ALEG KHERSONSKY 
Lender Type: Private Party Borrowers Name: FINNIGAN JR,THOMAS; FINNIGAN,DEBRA 
Vesting: Joint Tenancy 
Legal Description: Lot Number: 44
Block: 2
Tract Number: 852
City / Muni / Twp: SAN CLEMENTE


Foreclosure Record - 01/16/2008 
Recording Date: 01/16/2008 Document#: 2008000023614 
Document Type: Notice of Sale (aka Notice of Trustee's Sale) 
Auction Location: 401-411 E CHAPMAN AVE 
Auction Date/Time: 02/04/2008 10:00 A.M. 
Min. Bid Amount: $607,643.00 
Beneficiary Name: , 
Loan Date: 20050518 Loan Amount: 0 
Lender Type: Not Known Borrowers Name: 
Vesting: N/A 
Legal Description: 

Foreclosure Record - 10/12/2007 
Recording Date: 10/12/2007 Document#: 2007000628266 
Document Type: Notice of Default 
Min. Bid Amount: $0.00 
Beneficiary Name: AURORA LOAN SERVICES 
Beneficiary Name: FINNIGAN JR, THOMAS; FINNIGANDEBRA 
Trustee Names: NOT GIVEN 
Mailing Address: 2141 5TH AVE SAN DIEGO CA 92101 
TS#: CA-07-106669-SH Loan Doc #: 2005000382900 
Loan Date: 20050518 Loan Amount: 600000 
Contact Name: AURORA LOAN SERVICES 
Attention: QUALITY LOAN SERVICE CORP 
Lender Type: Not Known Borrowers Name: 
Vesting: N/A 
Legal Description: 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All Information produced is deemed reliable but is not guaranteed. 

Property History 1609 S OLA VISTA, SAN CLEMENTE, CA 92672-4341 

Mortgage Record - 08/03/2006 
Recording Date: 08/03/2006 Document#: 2006000518632 
Loan Amount: $250,000.00 Loan Type: Credit Line (Revolving) 
TD Due Date: 07/05/2046 Type of Financing: 
Lender Name: WELLS FARGO BANK NA 
Lender Type: Bank Borrowers Name: FINNIGAN JR,THOMAS; FINNIGAN,DEBRA 
Vesting: Joint Tenancy 
Legal Description: Lot Number: 44
Block: 2
Subdivision: SPANISH VILLAGE
Tract Number: 852
City / Muni / Twp: SAN CLEMENTE


Mortgage Record - 03/10/2006 
Recording Date: 03/10/2006 Document#: 2006000159739 
Loan Amount: $100,000.00 Loan Type: Credit Line (Revolving) 
TD Due Date: 02/13/2046 Type of Financing: 
Lender Name: WELLS FARGO BANK NA 
Lender Type: Bank Borrowers Name: FINNIGAN JR,THOMAS; FINNIGAN,DEBRA 
Vesting: Joint Tenancy 
Legal Description: Lot Number: 44
Block: 2
Subdivision: THE SPANISH VILLAGE
Tract Number: 852
City / Muni / Twp: SAN CLEMENTE


Prior Transfer - 05/18/2005 
Recording Date:  05/18/2005 Document#: 2005000382899 
Price: $0.00 Document Type: Intrafamily Transfer or Dissolution 
First TD: $600,000.00 Type of Sale: Non-Arms Length Transfer 
Lender Name: LEHMAN BROTHERS BANK FSB 
Buyer Name: FINNIGAN JR, THOMAS; FINNIGAN, DEBRA Buyer Vesting: Joint Tenancy 
Seller Name: FINNIGAN, THOMAS; FINNIGAN, DEBRA 
Legal Description: Lot Number: 44
Block: 2
Subdivision: SPANISH VILLAGE
Tract Number: 852
Map Ref: MP26 PG17-21
City / Muni / Twp: SAN CLEMENTE


Prior Transfer - 03/31/2003 
Recording Date: 03/31/2003 Document#: 2003000351151 
Price: $600,000.00 Document Type: Grant Deed 
First TD: $475,500.00 Type of Sale: Full-Computed from Transfer Tax 
Lender Name: NOVELLE FINANCIAL SERVICES 
Buyer Name: FINNIGAN, THOMAS; FINNIGAN, DEBRA Buyer Vesting: Community Property(Marital Community) 
Seller Name: GREWE, RONALD J; GREWE, MARY HOPE 
Legal Description: Lot Number: 44
Block: 2
Subdivision: THE SPANISH VILLAGE
Tract Number: 852
Map Ref: MP26 PG17-21
City / Muni / Twp: SAN CLEMENTE


----------



## lucky1nes

Looking back I think we all, including the Finnigin's, realize that this house would have ended up in foreclosure no matter what, even without the remodel.


----------



## wendiness1

It aired again today. I finally got to see it.

I don't know Deb but I do know people like her. She's probably not a greedy, thoughtless woman but simply one who has no concept of money and is used to getting what she wants. Too bad. 

And as much as I dislike Armando, having seen this episode, he really tried to help them out (and did some significant favors for them) but they expected him to do everything and I don't think that was the agreement.


----------



## lucky1nes

This is a prime example of exactly what went down in the lending industry. I saw countless examples of houses foreclosing mid construction whan an equity line was used instead of a proper construction loan to fund a project.

With a construction loan, the lender is involved in the entire building process with inspections required before the next draw.

We also see alot of really bad home improvement projects that were done prior to foreclosurer. Too many people watched HGTV, did a cash out refi then ran to home depot and made some really poor choices.

Bad tile, pergo, upgrades. Middle class america was tricked into thinking they needed travertine floors, built in fridges and solid granite countertops.


----------



## Snappa77

LMAO.

I. Love. This. Thread. 

Seem to revisit it once a year. Still cracks me up.


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## 232177

DarkShado said:


> And i would like to say YES the Finnigan's were living well beyond their means!
> ...
> The contactrator said that it was in the Finnigan's part of the
> contract to order the doors and they never did holding up the
> contractor again.
> ...
> I mean the Finnigan's were just idiots to Armando and his wife though
> the whole show!
> ...
> The Finnigan's were irresponsible and you know what It was
> probably best that they did lose the house.





lucky1nes said:


> The finnigan's had been in and out of foreclosure since 2007. This is all public record.


I would suggest treading lightly here.


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## robojerk

lol, why do you only post to this thread? You have to be Finnigan!


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## RonDawg

robojerk said:


> lol, why do you only post to this thread? You have to be Finnigan!


Read the thread again. Honest ***** is definitely NOT Tom Finnigan from the show...unless Tom likes to insult himself in public.

No, what Honest ***** is referring to is the inappropriate use of apostrophes that was called out earlier:



StacieH said:


> Oh. My. God. Finnigan's what? In this context, it's Finnigans, Finnigans....*FINNIGANS*!
> 
> I don't usually comment on things like this because there are plenty of other grammar and spelling Nazis on this board, but I just scrolled through 5 pages of this. Sorry, but if you two want to come here, fight and sling insults back and forth, and seem the least bit intelligent, PLEASE use correct punctuation!


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## lucky1nes

The lender of the loan that Armando found to finish the construction is the lender who foreclosed.


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## jradosh

That was worthy of a "3 months later" update.


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## jneugeba

OHOHOH - did it air again?


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## 232177

In case there could possibly be anyone left on the board who hasnt seen it yet, the Finnigan's  will be on again tomorrow at 12 Noon on A&E "Flip This House: Armando to the Rescue".


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## uncdrew

How's the family doing?

How's Armando doing?


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## marksman

Snappa77 said:


> LMAO.
> 
> I. Love. This. Thread.
> 
> Seem to revisit it once a year. Still cracks me up.


I do too.. and I am not all the way back through it it is just funny that the episode aired on like april 20th, 2010 and then April 24th 2011.

I have seen the montelongos back on the air quite a bit lately it is very weird why they are showing them. I assume they can't actually show the good show reruns because of some legal issue.

I really do think this has to be one of my top five threads easy.

Last time I checked Armando was ripping people off with home flipping seminars and such, I don't think he was doing any actual flipping. I miss his brother who was the sane one of the two.

edit:

Holy crap just bring up this page and see the freeze frame on the video. Is that armando on the left?

http://armandolive.com/


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## robojerk

Noooo!!! I wanted to watch that episode again, I found out too late. I'll probably need to setup a wishlist on the Tivo.

I know they would add some updated info at the end of the episodes, did they add anything?


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## MikeAndrews

marksman said:


> I do too.. and I am not all the way back through it it is just funny that the episode aired on like april 20th, 2010 and then April 24th 2011.
> 
> I have seen the montelongos back on the air quite a bit lately it is very weird why they are showing them. I assume they can't actually show the good show reruns because of some legal issue.


They can't show the "good"shows because they're laughable in light of what the truth was with Armando and what happened to the real estate feeding frenzy.



marksman said:


> Last time I checked Armando was ripping people off with home flipping seminars and such, I don't think he was doing any actual flipping.


Yeah. Somehow I caught a commercial for a seminar long ago.

They have to trade on people who don't know or won't accept the truth: this was the most blatant case where reality TV was anything but reality - I think maybe they had their true names - not much else.

The sad thing is that is that these goofs will. not. go. away. permanently.


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## lucky1nes

Way to go Armando.


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## robojerk

lucky1nes said:


> Way to go Armando.


Any context to this? I'm confused.


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## wendiness1

Watching reruns. Armando's Cat House - the flip that nearly undid him.

Interesting that the therapist noted "You may be having an affair with your career". Sounds odd but in context it makes sense. He was so obsessed with his own perceived brilliance and stubbornness, he could NOT think straight.

Anyway, where is that guy now?


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## RonDawg

wendiness1 said:


> Anyway, where is that guy now?


If you're talking about Armando, he's now doing seminars on flipping houses.

EDIT: oops, already mentioned above.


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## Ac Mopar

Just watched this last night on DABL, fell asleep part way through. Found this thread and have spent part of the morning reading it all. Much more interesting than I suspect the rest of the show was. Thank you all.


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