# What can we reasonably expect from the App Store?



## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

It seems like nowadays to be a truly competitive streaming box you need to offer:

-Netflix
-Hulu Plus
-Vudu
-Amazon Prime (ie streaming)
-YouTube
-HBO Go

I know there are others, and I know that not everyone uses all of these, but these are the ones usually listed first when devices tout what they offer so...

What's your take on the likelihood that these come to the Roamio?


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## Smirks (Oct 7, 2002)

anthonymoody said:


> It seems like nowadays to be a truly competitive streaming box you need to offer:
> 
> -Netflix
> -Hulu Plus
> ...


I would love all of those + WatchESPN and Showtime Anytime.


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## Alan_r (Sep 13, 2013)

I would happily throw out my Apple TV if there was HBO GO on the Roamio!


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## swerver (May 18, 2012)

Plex or similar please.

I was going to say that with ondemand, we don't need hbogo or showtime anytime, but I just checked and I see much more content available on hbogo than ondemand. Not to mention that many don't even get ondemand. (wonder what the % is)

How about watchespn, what additional content does it provide? Seems like it just streams various espn channels. Does it give you all the channels, even if your cable package only has the primary espn channels?

edit: several espn3 streams are available in the app


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## shortcut3d (Sep 1, 2013)

swerver said:


> Plex or similar please.
> 
> I was going to say that with ondemand, we don't need hbogo or showtime anytime, but I just checked and I see much more content available on hbogo than ondemand. Not to mention that many don't even get ondemand. (wonder what the % is)
> 
> How about watchespn, what additional content does it provide? Seems like it just streams various espn channels. Does it give you all the channels, even if your cable package only has the primary espn channels?


Plex or XBMC or any DLNA streaming app. It would be nice to stream directly from my NAS and have rich metadata displayed. PyTivo did not get me to retire my XBMC Intel NUC.


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## swerver (May 18, 2012)

Agreed xbmc would be even better. Just got one of those NUCs myself, very nice. No more huge htpc in my media cabinet is a win, and openelec vs. windows is also a nice improvement.

I know without a mouse that a browser is tough from a ui perspective, but I do like to stream live concerts and you usually need a browser to do so.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

There is no way in hell that TiVo is going to get either Plex or XBMC because the cable/broadcaster industry would have a fit.

While you're at it, request a torrent client.


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## shortcut3d (Sep 1, 2013)

I would settle for a good DLNA client that can read metadata correctly. No scraper necessary. I have Sony smart TV's, Blu-ray players, etc. and nothing does DLNA well. A nearly 10 year old Xbox 360 is better.


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## swerver (May 18, 2012)

jmpage2 said:


> There is no way in hell that TiVo is going to get either Plex or XBMC because the cable/broadcaster industry would have a fit.
> 
> While you're at it, request a torrent client.


Well they need something if they ever plan to live up to the one box claim. I'll admit I don't know how this works - what can the cable industry do to stop them from having a local streaming app? Are we talking just straight bullying here? Surely it's not illegal in and of itself, though it could be used to watch illegal downloads. But you could say that about the tivo now, too. I thought this was settled back in the vcr days, in favor of consumers.

Didn't they have an announcement last fall or so that they would be implementing some kind of dlna support? I don't like dlna in particular but it's a move in that direction.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

TiVo already has the ability to play local media, so it shouldn't run afoul with the cable labs agreements. The question is will it ever be a priority for TiVo to implement and develop - MSO's are not going to request it, so it is unlikely to be a priority.

The hope for the App Store is that it will embrace a developer community and provide good tools and API's for development.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

swerver said:


> Well they need something if they ever plan to live up to the one box claim. I'll admit I don't know how this works - what can the cable industry do to stop them from having a local streaming app? Are we talking just straight bullying here? Surely it's not illegal in and of itself, though it could be used to watch illegal downloads. But you could say that about the tivo now, too. I thought this was settled back in the vcr days, in favor of consumers.
> 
> Didn't they have an announcement last fall or so that they would be implementing some kind of dlna support? I don't like dlna in particular but it's a move in that direction.


They will release apps that tap into subscription models they can get a piece of, like HBO Go, not apps that play MKV files. The industry loves streaming, they just don't want you streaming your own content.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I can't see ever having one box that does everything. I'll always need multiple boxes to get access to the most streaming options available.


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## lickwid (Oct 2, 2005)

shortcut3d said:


> Plex or XBMC or any DLNA streaming app. It would be nice to stream directly from my NAS and have rich metadata displayed. PyTivo did not get me to retire my XBMC Intel NUC.


If my Samsung Smart TV can get Plex and HBO Go, I don't see why TiVo can't.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Personally I am hoping for support for things like Trakt.TV so I don't have to manually try to keep track of what episodes I have watched and deleted. I would also love to see documented tricks and features PyTiVo and KMTTG can access.



jmpage2 said:


> There is no way in hell that TiVo is going to get either Plex or XBMC because the cable/broadcaster industry would have a fit.
> 
> While you're at it, request a torrent client.


The same ones who put their apps on Roku alongside Plex?

Of course if TiVo ever releases a new TiVo Desktop they could build a version features like Plex offers into it.


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## mburnno (Oct 1, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> Of course if TiVo ever releases a new TiVo Desktop they could build a version features like Plex offers into it.


I would not hold my breath on that one. It would be nice if Tivo did this to give the users the option to watch TV on their desktop, kind of what a slingBox does now. I could live with being able to stream TV to my computer screen. As it stands now the Tivo desktop is really useless for what it can do.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Tivo's App store is based on the Opera TV Store, which is supported on a number of 2012 and 2013 Sony Bravia TVs and some Sony blu-ray players evidently, but not much else.

If anyone has a Sony device with the Opera TV Store and can share what kind of stuff is there, that's pretty much what we can expect. My understanding is that it's a fairly underwhelming selection. There's a distinct lack of online detail, other than Vimeo, Facebook, a movie trailer app, weather, and a lot of casual games...

There will probably just be more waiting and hoping for any major players, sadly. I kinda gave up waiting and got a Roku.


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## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

Plex


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## isilv (Sep 27, 2013)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> If anyone has a Sony device with the Opera TV Store and can share what kind of stuff is there, that's pretty much what we can expect. My understanding is that it's a fairly underwhelming selection. There's a distinct lack of online detail, other than Vimeo, Facebook, a movie trailer app, weather, and a lot of


Don't own one but here's the list on sony's website, its not much at all 
https://us.en.kb.sony.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/36074/c/65,66/kw/opera%20tv%20store


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## apw2607 (Nov 17, 2012)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Tivo's App store is based on the Opera TV Store, which is supported on a number of 2012 and 2013 Sony Bravia TVs and some Sony blu-ray players evidently, but not much else.
> 
> If anyone has a Sony device with the Opera TV Store and can share what kind of stuff is there, that's pretty much what we can expect. My understanding is that it's a fairly underwhelming selection. There's a distinct lack of online detail, other than Vimeo, Facebook, a movie trailer app, weather, and a lot of casual games...
> 
> There will probably just be more waiting and hoping for any major players, sadly. I kinda gave up waiting and got a Roku.


I own one and have used the opera tv store. 99% of the apps on there are complete junk. There's a few on there that are not too bad ... Red Bull tv, NHK TV, LandscapeHD and AP News.


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## apw2607 (Nov 17, 2012)

isilv said:


> Don't own one but here's the list on sony's website, its not much at all
> https://us.en.kb.sony.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/36074/c/65,66/kw/opera%20tv%20store


This list isn't current. There's well over 60+ apps available


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

innocentfreak said:


> The same ones who put their apps on Roku alongside Plex?


Roku doesn't do cable, doesn't do cable cards, and doesn't do SDV. For TiVo to do those things, they have to allow themselves to be bullied by the cable industry.


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## apw2607 (Nov 17, 2012)

Generally speaking. I think tivo really now need to step up their app support. The tv ad they run where they claim tivo can take the place of your cable box, Apple TV, roku, etc is misleading.

Tivos app support currently is pathetic. Sorry Margret and team. But it is, and samsung have tivo in their sights ...

http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/17/netflix-confirmed-samsung-smart-cable-box/

http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=7022415501

Although the SSMP has no local DVR capability, who's to say they don't offer a cloud based service that the boxee box tried to provide.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-09/samsungs-smart-media-player-come-boxee-dvr/


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## TimA (Feb 9, 2013)

Wow, everyone has high expectations for the App Store - I bet we'll see stuff like Candy Crush.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

TimA said:


> Wow, everyone has high expectations for the App Store - I bet we'll see stuff like Candy Crush.


I am not optimistic about it either.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

swerver said:


> I'll admit I don't know how this works - what can the cable industry do to stop them from having a local streaming app? Are we talking just straight bullying here? Surely it's not illegal in and of itself, though it could be used to watch illegal downloads. But you could say that about the tivo now, too. I thought this was settled back in the vcr days, in favor of consumers.


The cable industry doesn't have to bully TiVo. TiVo will ultimately do whatever the cable industry wants because they don't want to jeopardize current and future partnerships.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

steve614 said:


> The cable industry doesn't have to bully TiVo. TiVo will ultimately do whatever the cable industry wants because they don't want to jeopardize current and future partnerships.


TiVo isn't going to develop any of these apps - although, I am sure they will have an approval process. These apps will be developed by third party developers...

So, I guess the real question is: what app are you planning on developing?

I am waiting to see what kind of API's are available. Do we have Search and Video playback API's???


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## hooper (Sep 22, 2007)

My samsung tv has every app I need except WatchESPN. They added Vevo last week. Damn Disney and their cozy relationship with MSFT and Apple. WatchESPN is great because you get all the college basketball and football games that aren't airing locally, plus the ability to watch games after they aired. I use it on the xbox but it requires a stupid gold subscription.


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## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

apw2607 said:


> Generally speaking. I think tivo really now need to step up their app support. The tv ad they run where they claim tivo can take the place of your cable box, Apple TV, roku, etc is misleading.
> 
> Tivos app support currently is pathetic. Sorry Margret and team. But it is, and samsung have tivo in their sights ...
> 
> ...


It was this Samsung box that prompted my thinking, which in turn prompted my OP. No DVR as you said but a cloud DVR is certainly possible. And, given Samsungs broader product lines you could easily imagine them ultimately dropping a bluray drive into it. Then you really do have a one box possibility (unless you're a big iTunes household in which case you'll likely always also need an ATV).

Edit: I know that the one box world I posit doesn't likely include plex or xbmc but I've always considered those things to be sort of fringe. Perhaps incredibly useful but adopted by no more than an extremely small % of people. No insult intended.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

swerver said:


> what can the cable industry do to stop them from having a local streaming app? Are we talking just straight bullying here?


Yes. And they are good at it. They can yank cable card support, which is the ultimate threat. And cable companies can make support a nightmare for your non-cable-company equipment. Cable companies *tolerate* but dislike TiVo. They want you to use THEIR OWN equipment, something they can completely control, not something you own.

As far as fighting non-cable-TV, they already want to restrict IP traffic that competes with their own services. And since the cable TV companies are typically the monopoly that is also your sole reasonable ISP choice, they have a lot of power to control rate/flow AND price. They are also in a position, as an industry, to put tons of pressure on content creators.

We created this monster.
It is becoming an obsolete model.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want everything to be streaming- there are lots of issues. I would much rather just TRANSFER content straight to my DVR via IP, on demand, where it is stored temporarily, and play it locally how I choose. But I don't see why this requires me paying for hundreds of channels of simultaneous content I don't want.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I don't think it is nearly that nepharious.

Yes, the cable companies are all about maximizing profit. And the content owners are very aggressive in protecting their content. But I don't think they really care what cable box you choose to use at this point.

And as I said, tivo has been able to play local content for time in memorial. Specific cable companies may decide to exclude features or apps from their MSO supplied TiVo's, but they don't give a flying leap what the retail units offer.

Just as the MSO units cannot allow Netflix based on contracts with content owners - that restriction has no impact on retail TiVo's

- sorry for any typo's, this was from my phone.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

bradleys said:


> I don't think it is nearly that nepharious.


I don't either, really. I am just pointing out how it COULD be. What potential exists. And some of what has happened. Plus I doubt all cable companies are the same.


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## apw2607 (Nov 17, 2012)

anthonymoody said:


> It was this Samsung box that prompted my thinking, which in turn prompted my OP. No DVR as you said but a cloud DVR is certainly possible. And, given Samsungs broader product lines you could easily imagine them ultimately dropping a bluray drive into it. Then you really do have a one box possibility (unless you're a big iTunes household in which case you'll likely always also need an ATV).
> 
> Edit: I know that the one box world I posit doesn't likely include plex or xbmc but I've always considered those things to be sort of fringe. Perhaps incredibly useful but adopted by no more than an extremely small % of people. No insult intended.


Yes, the moment I read you original post I immediately thought of the samsung media box I had read about a day or so ago on engadget.

Nothing like some extra competition! Tivo could completely dominate this playing field if they got their app support up to date. What no one has done so far very well is universal search across live tv and cloud based services.

Googletv anyone ... ? Yikes. No thanks.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

crxssi said:


> Roku doesn't do cable, doesn't do cable cards, and doesn't do SDV. For TiVo to do those things, they have to allow themselves to be bullied by the cable industry.


You don't consider the Time Warner live TV app on the Roku access to cable?

Don't get me wrong I am not in any way optimistic about any good apps ever coming to TiVo boxes. All I really want is better support and documentation that programs like PyTiVo and KMTTG can take access to.

Plex at least on Roku can't fast forward to my liking for streamed content. My slim hope is at some point that TiVo or someone can recreate playback on local content that is on par with TiVo to TiVo streaming and trickplay. Until it feels like a local recording streaming isn't for me.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

innocentfreak said:


> You don't consider the Time Warner live TV app on the Roku access to cable?


No. It has commercials and you can't skip them because you can't store the video so I don't consider it access to cable. It is a partial and far more restricted access to cable content only.

The industry LOVES streaming because it means they can force feed customers exactly what the companies want, when they want, and how they want. All while DRM'ing to death to make sure you can't store it or shift it to other devices or access it non-live.

I am not fond of the cable TV model, but I am not fond of the streaming-only model either. My ideal system would be one in which all content is delivered via IP to any device I want. It is requested and downloaded either on demand or scheduled. It is stored locally for however long I want so I can watch it how and when I want, skip or replay anything I want, and with or without a live internet connection. Payment can be by subscription or a-la-carte or something.

So far the only thing I have seen that comes anywhere near close to the above is the traditional Amazon video (NOT PRIME).


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## Devx (Jun 1, 2006)

I'm not looking forward to remote streaming apps and that's mostly because I already have other devices that can handle those and do it well. I know that some do, but I don't personally find switching inputs that difficult or cumbersome. 

That said, I would like to see Tivo truly support 3rd party development on the app store by providing interfaces for other parties to hook in and improve the experience. If remote streaming apps use this app store, Amazon, HBO, ESPN, Showtime, Hulu, etc., then great but I would rather see something new and innovative on the platform that isn't readily available on Roku or Apple TV.

Maybe with the app store a developer can improve on what we already have as well. Like an updated, modern, music player. A new photo viewer to round out the experience wouldn't hurt either.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Devx

Yes - but everyone needs to understand that TiVo itself isn't an open source project. We are not going to be changing or improving or customizing anything 'TiVo". I am sure that isn't what you meant, I just wanted to make it clear.

I do think there are a number of opportunities to expand on the old HME app platform and as you mentioned, create some really very cool companion apps - as I said before a big benefit would be if TiVo made some of their API's available like search and video player.


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## Devx (Jun 1, 2006)

bradleys said:


> Devx
> 
> Yes - but everyone needs to understand that TiVo itself isn't an open source project. We are not going to be changing or improving or customizing anything 'TiVo". I am sure that isn't what you meant, I just wanted to make it clear.
> 
> I do think there are a number of opportunities to expand on the old HME app platform and as you mentioned, create some really very cool companion apps - as I said before a big benefit would be if TiVo made some of their API's available like search and video player.


Reading my post again, I can see how it could probably be interpreted in some unintended ways. Let's see if I can clean it up a bit.

By experience, I meant the overall experience, not specifically the experience while using the Tivo core DVR UI. To clarify, I'm not expecting any changes to core functionality or the Tivo HDUI through the app store. Instead, just based on experience with current 3rd party apps, developers are already taking advantage of what Tivo exposes to its own apps. The current 3rd party apps improve the experience by providing what Tivo doesn't, or doesn't do as well. It would be great if Tivo expanded on that and provided additional supported interfaces for apps in the app store.

A point I should have added to my previous post is regardless of what Tivo does with the app store, they still need to protect core functionality. It won't matter how great a new app is if it can manage to destabilize the platform and there are box reboots, missing recordings, etc.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

TiVo will not only protect their core functionality they will also protect the TiVo brand, which means no skinning of the UI or replacing core functionality with aftermarket apps. It is entirely possible that another media player (Plex etc) will become available for TiVo, but I certainly am not holding my breath expecting it to happen.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Don't we already know what apps to expect? It should be almost the same apps that are available in the Opera TV Store since it is using that SDK. I assume it may require those companies to re-submit them to TiVo but maybe not.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Opera is still a relatively immature platform as far as apps go, and we don't know if there are any TiVo specific framework code that will be required for apps to be included in the TiVo App Store.

I think people are considering what cool things "might" be developed.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

crxssi said:


> No. It has commercials and you can't skip them because you can't store the video so I don't consider it access to cable. It is a partial and far more restricted access to cable content only.


I guess then hooking your TV up to the wall or using a Set top box from your cable provider that isn't a DVR isn't access to cable by your definition either then.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

innocentfreak said:


> I guess then hooking your TV up to the wall or using a Set top box from your cable provider that isn't a DVR isn't access to cable by your definition either then.




OK, you got me on that. But I wouldn't ever do that. I would rather watch no TV than have no DVR capability. But in your example, it still has the POTENTIAL to be handled by a DVR. You can't with a streaming system.


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## apw2607 (Nov 17, 2012)

anthonymoody said:


> It was this Samsung box that prompted my thinking, which in turn prompted my OP. No DVR as you said but a cloud DVR is certainly possible. And, given Samsungs broader product lines you could easily imagine them ultimately dropping a bluray drive into it. Then you really do have a one box possibility (unless you're a big iTunes household in which case you'll likely always also need an ATV).
> 
> Edit: I know that the one box world I posit doesn't likely include plex or xbmc but I've always considered those things to be sort of fringe. Perhaps incredibly useful but adopted by no more than an extremely small % of people. No insult intended.


I picked up one of these boxes to try out ... tivo have nothing to worry about !

On one hand it's essentially the same as a 2013 Samsung BD player minus disk playback but adding a cable tuner.

This means the box supports Samsungs apps platform and DLNA. Note the box doesn't support DTS and respects Cinavia.

It does have cross service search including the live TV guide which is quite cool. The guide however is pretty awful and sloooow. As is changing channel.

Also if you turn on 24p output the box takes ages to switch from 60p to 24p.

Overall ... It just ok .... I'm not really sure who the box will appeal to. I guess folks renting a basic cable box (digital) wanting to maybe save a few bucks.

But the box does offer good apps support and DLNA ... Be it crippled somewhat.


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## apw2607 (Nov 17, 2012)

Back to the apps discussion with the tivo Roamio platform. I think we maybe reading more into the Opera tv store. I don't believe the Opera tv store will be the only avenue for new apps support with tivo. I think it just a fast way for tivo to quickly support lots of new apps.

I still believe additional apps will be developed that will run outside of opera.


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## pautler (Oct 10, 2013)

I'm enjoying my new TiVo Roamio (and Minis) but I am very surprised that Amazon Prime is not supported, especially since Netflix, Hulu Plus, and Amazon instant video are all supported. Amazon Prime seems like the one that should be there but was forgotten or omitted for some reason.

I opened a support ticket with TiVo to ask if there were plans to support it in the future, and if so, what the time line might be. The initial response that I got back was that there were not currently any plans to support Amazon Prime on Roamio, but that I should submit their online "feature request form" if it was something I would like to see added. When I expressed my disappointed, I received a follow-up response from TiVo that said:
"We haven't made any announcements regarding Amazon
Prime on TiVo boxes, but it's definitely something we would
like to see. I would strongly suggest keeping an eye on the
Press Releases for more information."

I submitted the online "feature request form" for Amazon Prime, and in case anyone else would like to submit the form for Amazon Prime (or anything else), the online form is very quick and easy to fill out and submit, and it can be found here:

=> http://advisors.tivo.com/wix9/p2272893819.aspx

I'm hoping a lot of people will request Amazon Prime support, so that they might prioritize a project for it. 

-Joe


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## huntrdog (Sep 16, 2013)

pautler said:


> I'm hoping a lot of people will request Amazon Prime support, so that they might prioritize a project for it.
> 
> -Joe


I'm with Joe. Also on my wishlist is SiriusXM Radio.


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## Joe Siegler (May 10, 2000)

pautler said:


> I'm enjoying my new TiVo Roamio (and Minis) but I am very surprised that Amazon Prime is not supported, especially since Netflix, Hulu Plus, and Amazon instant video are all supported. Amazon Prime seems like the one that should be there but was forgotten or omitted for some reason.


This has been a common complaint since Amazon Prime Streaming first existed. I stopped holding my breath.

It's kind of like Roku and Youtube. Doesn't make any sense, but there you are.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

From what I understand, the ball is in Amazon's court, so any inquires should go to Amazon. It is their app to build.


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## pautler (Oct 10, 2013)

Good point. Thanks for the tip!

I just sent a message to Amazon customer support.

It looks like this issue has existed for a long time, but I figure it can't hurt to fire off a couple quick "feature requests" to both parties.

-Joe


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I keep saying and I truly believe the reason we haven't seen Amazon Prime on the Premiere line is that Amazon wouldn't sign off on the laggy platform. Not good for their brand image - think about how many people complain about Netflix!

I do believe that we will see Amazon Prime on the Roamio, it may come with the App Store or it may require enough of an install base to make it with Amazon's time and effort to develop - but I predict it will come! 

Keep watching those press releases!!!!!


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